# Insecure & VERY Paranoid... Please Help!! :(



## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

First off, I will acknowledge I have problems trusting my husband, in part, because he has lied to me several times in the past... but at the moment I am feeling just crazy paranoid and insecure. Could be the pregnancy, hormones, etc. But it's driving both of us up a wall. I don't have a great history of picking trustworthy partners, either. I know that I have something to do with that... even though in my mind, I SWEAR I want a HEALTHY, RESPECTABLE relationship. Something unresolved in me keeps bringing it back. I am incredibly depressed because of it. We do have a counseling appointment on the 20th. It can't get here fast enough...

Part of what my husband has lied to me about is pornography. What marriage would be complete without it? After swearing off porn, cancelling the internet and supposedly trashing the dirty magazines, it seems my husband has been able to use everyday photos found in innocent magazines and newspapers. Of course, this could be just me, as he denies it, however... I've been in enough relationships to know what's going on... (or is it my paranoia)??? My ex boyfriend was a porn addict... so I'm hypervigilant to any weird behavior. (Although my husband is weird and eccentric in his own right). 

After I come home from work, I notice little things moved around, things that aren't regularly accessed, (at least when I'm home), for instance, our closet, which is full of boxes and other useless items. My husband has a chest of drawers he doesn't use to store clothing in. Odds and ends... papers, receipts. Crap basically. All four days that I don't work, these drawers don't move. There is nothing he goes in there for... but coming home after work I find things moved around. Drawers opened and closed, etc. It drives me INSANE because I can't possibly fathom what is in there, that is innocent, that he only needs when I'm not around!! 

Because I want to trust my husband again, even though he's proven to be a pretty good liar... Again and again and again... I haven't snooped through his things. A.) I am afraid of what I will find; B.) How I will justifiably confront him with what I might find; and C.) Lose his trust in me as well. 

On the other hand, it IS my house, and shouldn't everything be transparent in a marriage?? Or am I justifying things with that thought?? 

TODAY: I am plagued with noticing every tiny detail of everything... Even we we made love this evening, I could tell that he had recently... you know. The volume... wasn't the same. I was home all day... So, *did he do this at work*?? *Did he go somewhere else*? *Is he actually physically cheating*?? (*He did call to say he had to 'stay late'*    ) Or did he do it while I was home, and opted not to involve me?? And who exactly was his inspiration??

I asked him about it... Understandably, he seemed a little embarassed, and said he did it last night... About 24 hours prior to our experience... Many, many times I have gone round after round with this man, and I know this sort of depletion is the very 'recent' kind. I wouldn't be bothered at all, except for the staying late at work thing combined with this and everything else...


My mind won't let this go. This indicates a huge problem to me... I am just not able to figure out if it is mine or his. I am scared to death that he's seeing someone else. Lately he's been kind of weird about his phone, too. The other day he left it in the car while we were out and about... which is not something he has done the entire time I've known him!!

Since he recently started school he's been a little on the aloof side... and I'm worried he's thinking of someone else. One thing he said that sounds like complete BS is that he doesn't fantasize about anything when he's alone... he just "focuses on the sensations". This is a whopper and I know it. And I'm certain it's not me he's thinking about... or he would just say that. *Hell, he lies to me about everything else... but he can't lie to make me feel good for once*?? I probably wouldn't believe him anyways at this point... 

*It's bothering me to the point where I am considering divorce*. His lies, secrecy, addiction, etc. are making it very hard to work on and better myself in this relationship...

I am starting to feel unattractive and uninteresting to him. To a degree, I really don't blame him. My anxiety and moodiness are getting worse with each unanswered question. And he thinks it's just plain weird that I ask him about his... 'habits'. I feel like we can and should be able to discuss anything and everything openly.... It seems to me that his needs aren't being filled if he's going solo... Even when I'm ready and available.

I know he has a hard time discussing his needs, (oh, he has none... completely self-sufficient... I feel quite valued knowing this...) BUT I don't want him to be afraid to be open to me. I might be a little nuts, but I am able and often deal quite well with the small relevations he has made to me in the past... As long as they weren't "discovered".

I know my husband loves me... He is a very patient man whom I adore infinitely... but my paranoia and insecurity are hurting us both. I know that confronting him will only get lies/denial, which will just upset me more. I can't make him tell the truth, but I wish he knew how much better things would be if he could.

No matter how much research I do for myself... changing my habits, (at least I am able to recognize and alter a few), my insecurity and need for reassurance, (which is constant at this point... having had so little... and now being pregnant)... is driving me crazy. I can't stop thinking about it... and when I can't stop thinking, I can't sleep or eat... I just feel edgy and irritable and trapped. 

He finds it easy to dismiss me because I was diagnosed with cysts in my brain earlier this year... and even though the doctors say they are harmless, my husband is convinced that they, along with the pregnancy are bringing about my personality changes... I say it's built up resentment and frustration. And I often feel much deprived of love and affection... 

I can't wait to talk to a counselor and get this all out... but has anyone else ever felt like they were 'losing it' like this... over seemingly petty things... Or were you found valid?? What helped you cope??? How can I ask my husband for help, without also offending him with my thoughts??? Why am I slowly losing my mind this way?? I don't like who I am anymore!! I am beginning to believe this relationship may not be good for me anymore...

Maybe I should just check myself into a looney bin...


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## bayoumom (Sep 19, 2011)

well I can't offer you answers, except to say I understand the feeling of wondering what is really an issue and what are you adding to it simply because you don't trust him
when my husband and I went to counseling and talked about everything he had clear cut answers (that made sense and 99.9% was probably true), but the one thing he did admit to, made me see distrust, deceit, and disrespect in ALL of it.
THAT IS NORMAL! it's called not trusting them
trust, once broken, has to be earned. THAT is where it is hard, I think. 
counseling is the only thing I can recommend. I'm hoping it helps me


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Thank you for responding. I am aware that my husband is a crazy maker, and I succumbed to the 'staying late at work incident'. I'm really paranoid and trying to keep my cool while my mind is a blur. We have a counseling appointment tomorrow but things aren't going so well. We were in a pretty bad wreck on the freeway two days ago, severe enough that I was in the hospital 21 hours while they tried to decide whether I had a spinal injury. (Never did the CT as I'm pregnant). I've been in horrible pain and does he bother asking or taking an interest in me or baby? Or helping? Or hell, act like he gives a hoot? We had an ultrasound and it was the first time we saw baby move! I was amazed, he seemed uninterested and bored as usual. No, he moped and mourned his damn car and the amount of time I was in the hospital. He's highly effectively at acting as if I'm nobody or nothing to him. I'm so frustrated, but hopeful about tomorrow. If only to work on and improve my mind. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm wondering what the complaint here really is. He moves things around in the house? He reads magazines that have pictures in them. You think he is practicing a little self stimulation? Listen. It is entirely normal for a man to masturbate. If he is still meeting your needs for relations and is not obsessed with the activity, why does it bother you? If it does bother you, have you asked him to not do it and offered your services for when the urge strikes him?

I don't know, but your post seems over the top to me....


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

KanDo said:


> I'm wondering what the complaint here really is. He moves things around in the house? He reads magazines that have pictures in them. You think he is practicing a little self stimulation? Listen. It is entirely normal for a man to masturbate. If he is still meeting your needs for relations and is not obsessed with the activity, why does it bother you? If it does bother you, have you asked him to not do it and offered your services for when the urge strikes him?
> 
> I don't know, but your post seems over the top to me....


OP "did" note that she didn't know if the problem here was with her or him.

Yin - Any way you could condense your original post? Or maybe pick "one" piece of the puzzle for us to examine?

Look around the Coping with Infedility section - start to get a feel for signs that people are having affairs. I don't think there was really anything too bothersome in your post in regards to an affair.

I "get" your concern that he's hiding porn. Seems like the best thing to do would be to just tell him what you've noticed - things moved only when you're gone - and ask him what's going on. Maybe there's an explanation?

I would also suggest journaling. Your first post is a great start. Journaling can help you handle these thoughts a bit better - focus more on one thing at a time instead of this really big picture you've painted.


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

I got over the porn issue with my wife by not hiding it. Sorry, most men masturbate. Most men look at porn. I don't consider it cheating. I would much rather make love to my wife than masturbate to porn, but when she is not available I take care of myself. Would you rather he was out having sex with some other person? Men masturbate...get over it.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

My ex would blow her top when she thought I was masturbating in the shower. She would grill me on who I was thinking about. Eventually I would just answer "Your mother" (she wasn't bad looking) and she would walk away. Pathetic really having to mastubate in shower because ex used sex as a reward for obedience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh and Yin, if you are depriving your husband of sex AND giving him grief for seeking release prepare yourself to be a single mom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

YinPrincess said:


> I've been in horrible pain and does he bother asking or taking an interest in me or baby? Or helping? Or hell, act like he gives a hoot? We had an ultrasound and it was the first time we saw baby move! I was amazed, he seemed uninterested and bored as usual. No, he moped and mourned his damn car and the amount of time I was in the hospital. He's highly effectively at acting as if I'm nobody or nothing to him.


There is the issue of pornography. There is the issue that you think he lies about everything. There is the issue that he doesn't appear to be at all concerned about you or the baby. There is the above-referenced issue in which he acts like you are "nobody" or "nothing."

There is so many negatives about this man, and they appear to be pretty major negatives for you, that I wonder why you are staying with him. On the other hand you say you know he loves you. What you are telling us about him are not the actions of a loving husband, in my opinion.

You are considering divorce, but you "adore" him "infinitely." This could be the hormone crazies kicking in due to pregnancy. Some of the stuff he is doing could be magnified, in your mind, due to your current condition.

I don't know. It just seems there are a slew of contradictions. Perhaps you could focus on one thing he does that bothers you the most so folks could respond to that. JMO.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

How much of this started recently? Your husband didn't want the baby, at least initially - otherwise why would he have been planning to get a vasectomy? But you two decided to have the baby after serious thinking about it: But maybe he is having second thoughts about that. It's about as life-changing as it gets. Just an idea. I'm not sure of the timeline, thus I'm just putting it out there.

I'm so sorry to hear you were in a car accident and are in pain. I hope you are feeling better and that there was no damage to you (who cares about a car!??!). I understand why you are upset about his reaction. I would flip out if my husband didn't fall all over himself trying to make sure I was okay. 

The fact that he didn't act concerned about the baby was actually what gave me the idea that it might be cold dad feet.


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

Your husband isn't acting as though you and unborn baby are his first priority.

Porn...I can understsand your dislike of it if your H is more interested in it than he is in you. There is a genre of porn all about pregnant women. If he is into that you could replace the fantasy aspect with the real thing... You.

Hope you mend quickly from the car crash. It stinks that he was more concerned about the car than you. Was it a special car? Some of us guys get attached to our rides, especially if it is a classic


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## Yardman (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm not a woman. If I was in this woman's shoes, I'd take a few provocative pics of myself and put that in his porn stash


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Wow... So much to respond to...

I will start... I don't care if my husband has 'alone time', what bothers me is if he's doing it when I'm available and willing... (and I never turn him down... ever). I care about if he lies to me.

I'm also concerned because of the night in particular, that I don't know if he is doing this at work, or if 'staying late' was an excuse to go elsewhere and do something or someone otherwise. I really don't think my husband would do that... but you never know.

Nice777Guy - I do ocassionally bring up things I notice, but I know from experience (with him) that things will either a.) be rationalized or more often, b.) I will be berated for bringing up my concerns at all. I pretty much keep my observations to myself, but I don't think that is helping me.

Sanity - Sex as a reward is sad if it's purely manipulative. If a woman has lost trust, believes there has been infidelity or has other valid concerns, then maybe not. I don't use sex as a tool for reward/manipulation with my husband. I do love him, and I like pleasing him, so that is not going to happen, so long as I believe there haven't been any exposures that would harm me in any way... I'm not giving him 'grief' as I keep most of my thoughts to himself, and actually make a point to seem very casual, as to not upset him. When he is honest with me I don't use that against him. It's easier to just accept it and move on when we have open communication. Rare, but it does happen.

Prodigal - Despite the negatives, I do love my husband. He is a usually kind and easy-going person, however I have noticed a personality change since he has become sober, (only a few months now). We've only been married a year, and we never lived together before that time, so those are some other things we are contending with as well. There is also the added aspect that he may have Asperger's Syndrome. If he does, (and I'm not pushing for a diagnosis), it would explain a lot of his 'quirks'.

Omega - I have no doubts his mind flits back and forth between "pro-baby" and "con-baby" as he puts it. He still plans to have his vasectomy, so if things go well and the pregnancy continues as expected, this will be our only child. I know he is scared; I am too. Inside, I know he cares about whether or not I die... I'm just not sure about why he isn't more sensistive to the trauma I've been through. Maybe it's a man thing to act like it's 'no big deal'?? I've considered that.

Yardman... I was not aware of any special significance of the car. I'm a car person myself, and I would totally understand if it were THAT way... He could care less about the car itself... I think the loss may have been more about his loss of freedom, not that I've had time to think about it. I understand that, and I feel it, too... I just felt he could have been a little more sensitive and concerned about me and baby than the car...

More to be added later... on another note... We had to reschedule our counseling appointment because we no longer have a vehicle to transport ourselves....


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Asperger's? Oh boy. I used to teach high school students with Asperger's. They had real relationship issues!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

omega said:


> Asperger's? Oh boy. I used to teach high school students with Asperger's. They had real relationship issues!


 I know relatively little about this syndrome, but I know a lot of the pieces fit. (Lack of or 'inappropriate' use of emotions - he has smiled while I bawled, leaving me to think he's a real big jerk)! No close friends, inability to relate to others, unusual relationship with language, (he frequently excludes vowels when he writes/types), odd preoccupations, (sports scores, without interest in the actual sports), etc. These are just a few things. I don't want my husband to feel bad or wrong, especially if he is genuinely different. It's just hard for me to separate the various issues (is it sobriety/pregnancy/Asperger's that make him behave the way he does)? If you could share a little more about what you think I'd be really grateful. I am not sure if what I see is valid, or if I am concocting an excuse for him..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

IF it's Asperger's, it's mild Asperger's, otherwise it would have been noticed. Mild Asperger's is the modern way of saying what 30 years ago people called 'socially retarded.' Someone who is literal, tends to focus on several areas of interest more so than the average person would, someone who doesn't take small social hints, tends to avoid eye contact (often look at the other person's forehead or will rapidly look away after establishing eye contact), sensitive to rough fabrics and strong tastes/smells, likes to establish a routine and resists diverging from it, likes to have things in a certain order or pattern where possible, appreciates people who don't 'beat around the bush' and has a hard time sugar-coating things.

People who fall into this category often find themselves forming relationships online because they can avoid a lot of the initial stuff that makes dating so difficult, like gazing into the other person's eyes, acting appropriate on the date, making a good first impression, etc.

There is no correlation between Asperger's and intelligence - people of all IQs can have Asperger's. I know some people think that Aspies are smarter than average but it's not really true. There are Aspies in all sorts of jobs, but they will often tend toward computer-oriented jobs or jobs where their interaction with the public or large numbers of people are more limited.

These are stereotypes but they are pretty reliable. There are always exceptions. 

Now how they affect relationships... aside from the way they often meet their significant other, they also tend to be very literal and not to understand some of the subtler aspects of communication. For example a woman may want to be told "I love you" and " you look beautiful" 14 times/day, an Aspie may not be able to understand why it's necessary to say this more than once, since it hasn't changed and he already said it. Or, if he asks "what's wrong?" and she says "nothing," he will most likely take her at her word and believe 100% that nothing is wrong, when 99% likelihood is that something is wrong. 

So for example if he asked you if you were okay when you were injured, and you said "don't worry, I'm all right," then if he is an Aspie, he would likely believe you, and would actually not be worrying at all, since as far as he's concerned, if the doctors told you not to worry, and you told him that, then worrying is a waste of energy. I'm not saying this is what happened, just an idea.

It's very likely that he's NOT an Aspie, because seriously someone would have noticed by now. But if he is, be very vigilant with your child's development. There appears to be a strong inheritable aspect to autism, and parents with Asperger's often have children with autism or Asperger's.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I had to laugh a little - the first part of your description sounded more like me than him! One thing that stands out is lack of eye contact from him - he tends to stare at my mouth a lot when I talk and boy does it irritate me! His mother is the one who put Asperger's in my head, but she is the sort to be a little overbearing and has a tendancy to excuse her son whenever possible.. I never really thought of him as being different as she does. He has been a loner type for as long as I can remember, and I always chalked our problems up as being mine, or being his inexperience with relationships...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm feeling a little calmer the last day or two and not so wound up... Things have been cordial for the most part between hubby and I.

The topic on my mind today is me trying to figure out what I want from him. I consider myself to be a very articulate person at times, but lately brain-fog has got the best of me.

I want to hear my husband say I mean something to him... That I'm important, that he's aware of my existance, that I DO or AM somehow beneficial to him in any way shape or form!

It occured to me, that other than the pet names, there is very little emotional intimacy, (haven't cut him off from the physical intimacy... this has been difficult, but I know it will just cause more problems). He doesn't say cute, loving or sweet, and nevermind romantic kind of things to me!

Not sure what I'm looking for here, as I seem perpetually confused anymore... But if someone can point me in the right direction, I'd sure appreciate it.

Counseling appointment has been rescheduled for the 13th of Oct. I am really looking forward to it!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You mentioned you were in a wreck and in pain.
Is there a possibility you were given pain medicine in the hospital? You should check your records and see because there are sorts of drugs that would cause paranoia, especially if you are stressed due to the actual accident as well as pregnancy and so forth with the issues of you and your husband's relationship, current and history. The other concern is head injury or even subtle swelling that could cause hypervigilance and paranoia. I know that when I had an allergic reaction, it caused clinical paranoia, one can learn to ignore this as a medical artifact rather than a psychological issue or something that is based on reality. But it is a mental feat until your body/brain chemistry catches up to where you would like to be. Even saying, I am feeling paranoid, gives you some control over the situation. If you try not to feel paranoid, it just increases the stress and that of course increases the paranoia. So you have to find a way to accept it and be able to put the brakes on it. 

I would definitely check out the Rx history of your hospital stay. Even one dose of a sedative or sleeping pill could have set this off.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I was in the accident after the post was created. I wish I could blame my state on it, but I can't. I believe it is due to my past and current relationships, and my tendancy to pick abusive/neglectful types. I left him last night after a series of unprovoked verbal assults and criticisms. (I went to my mom's house). The attacks continued up until this morning. He honestly can not see how I could not just sit around and take the insults any more. He is victimizing himself and blaming me. I just can't do it anymore. I will only stay 'sick' with him. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

I can tell you exactly what happened. You became my father, your husband reacted the exact way that I did until I was able to move out on my own. 

My father is a very controling and intrusive person, just like you are with your husband. He has zero privacy as you go through his things and mark thre location of every object in his home. He has no rights over what he is allowed to do with his own body, as you even measure and scrutinize the amount of semen that he expels. He has to account for all of his time away from you.

People placed in this situation have two choices of response. 

1. They become rebellious. Often to the point of self destructive behavior. Which is what I would do if I found myself in this situation now that I am an adult and have over 30 years of life under my belt.

2. They leave. This is what I did when I was living at home. They distance themselves from the control freak. They stop giving any information that could be used to tighten that control. Conversations are short, vague and never intimate. They stay in different rooms and will leave it when you enter it. They spend as much time away as physically possible. Work, school, hobbies. They treat the control freak like an enemy. Keeping an eye on them and shutting down socially when they cant be kept at a distance. 

Basically you have created a very alien and hostile environment for him in his own home. I doubt very much if he would be sad to see you go. Personally I cant fathom living in that environment and I challenge the posters in this thread to reread your starting post and ask themselves how they would feel if placed in the position this man is in? 

Interrogated about drawers he accessed or objects moved, Unable to read a magazine without being accused of masturbating. Even your semen gets scrutinized. I want the women to think about this. Your having sex with your man and he suddenly stops, looks down and scrutinizes your fluid. Then looks you dead in the eye and asks; "Why you so dry, where you been?" Could you live like that? For how long?

Imagine how this poor guy feels. I feel sorry for him. You should let him go.


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## Sameold (Aug 11, 2011)

My first rule of pregnancy: don't do anything irrevocable until I get my brain back. Not only do the hormones make me . . . odd, yes, I think odd's a good term, but pregnancy totally kills my natural creative tendencies. I'm assuming it's low oxygen to my brain, since I can't write stories or music (both of which have been hobbies since childhood). Well, that's what I notice--aside from the constant pain which makes me snappy anyway (old injury), which only shows up during pregnancy. Things bother me that normally wouldn't, things that normally would bother me don't.
So I set myself a date--in the case of this pregnancy, the end of the year, between now and then (baby will be three months oldish) I won't make any irrevocable decisions. Because I just can't be sure whether it's me, the hormones, the people around me, or what. No buying big ticket items like houses (hah! no money!) no other major decisions. I know, from experience, that once the baby's born and I'm just nursing, I'll be more hormonally stable than I am with my natural menstrual cycle anyway. Some women don't have that same experience--if I were you, with this being your first, I'd make sure I wasn't one of those unluckies who suffers from PPD before going back to making big life decisions.
It's not going to be the end of the world to just leave the relationship in limbo until you get your mind back from the hormones, you know, if he'll go along with it. You two are going to be involved at some level for the next eighteen years, because of the baby, anyway, so unless there's some really huge reason to not wait until after you give birth to make big decisions, try to just wait.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> As far as the baby and your husband acting like he cares, you should know that men don't connect with unborn children like we do. We can feel the changes in our body before they are noticeable to anyone else. We feel the child move. Our body is their protection. We have 40weeks to bond with someone who isn't technically here yet. Your husband doesn't feel any of that. The ultrasounds look like blurry black & white blobs to them. They won’t really bond until the baby is here. My H only came to my appointments and ultrasounds b/c I made him, yet he cried when our daughter was born.


Angel, this was priceless. A piece of common sense I hadn't noticed. Thank you for bringing this perspective to my attention. It completely makes sense, and I am able to see how easily he could be 'detached' about the pregnancy. Thank you! 



Angel5112 said:


> you want your H to let you know that you mean something to him. Have you told him this? Men aren’t psychic and they don’t need the same emotional coddling as we do. He can’t make it better if you don’t tell him how you’re feeling, what you want, and what is wrong.
> 
> I hope some of this helps! I wish you the best.


Thank you again. Yes, I have let him know that I am feeling vulnerable and need to know that I am important and special in his life... His typical reaction consists of rolling his eyes and saying "Oh geeez". I feel very dismissed and rejected when he does this. I've let him know that as well, but I cannot seem to get him to understand how much this hurts. Usually, asking very little of him, a hug or to hold my hand, he can unreasonably respond as if my expectations were so great and so unreasonable. He has had to deal with an overbearing mother and grandparents, so I think they are where he learned to dismiss and stifle his own feelings...




rikithemonk said:


> He has zero privacy as you go through his things


Actually, if read my posts very carefully, you'd find that I'd said I DO NOT go through my husband's things... As I am trying to respect him, as well as maintain my own dignity... 



rikithemonk said:


> as you even measure and scrutinize the amount of semen that he expels.


I had a reason for this one time incident... The convenient "I had to stay late at work" excuse. I do want to protect myself if he is cheating... Asking him isn't unreasonable, either. Even if he's not cheating, and is masturbating at work, or elsewhere, for that matter, yes, I would be concerned about that. I believe it's a valid concern that would bother any woman...



rikithemonk said:


> Interrogated about drawers he accessed or objects moved, Unable to read a magazine without being accused of masturbating. Even your semen gets scrutinized.


This is out of context. I can relate to your point, even if you cannot relate to mine. I want to stress the fact that I don't 'interrogate' my husband. If I do ask about something, I keep it short and casual, because I DO care about his feelings, and I DON'T want to upset him. Mostly I keep things to myself, because I AM aware of my own issues, and how they might be playing into this. I think I've been pretty open to my contributions in this situation.



rikithemonk said:


> You should let him go.


I'm not keeping him in a cage. He is free to go if he needs to, and I can accept that. The fact is, he doesn't. At times I feel like things would be easier for me to accept if he left... But I'm doing the best I can to cope with several different situations. We are still new to each other; going through trial and error...




Sameold said:


> My first rule of pregnancy: don't do anything irrevocable until I get my brain back... So I set myself a date--in the case of this pregnancy, the end of the year, between now and then (baby will be three months oldish) I won't make any irrevocable decisions. Because I just can't be sure whether it's me, the hormones, the people around me, or what... You two are going to be involved at some level for the next eighteen years, because of the baby, anyway, so unless there's some really huge reason to not wait until after you give birth to make big decisions, try to just wait.


Great advice. I take this to heart, because I am the first to admit, I run at the first hint of trouble. I definitely need to work on that, and gather more strength for toughing out the rough times. Thank you for your words of wisdom.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You are doing the right thing by knowing when you are not feeling right and by advocating for yourself and when it is really not great for you, removing yourself from the situation. That is really all you can do. Maybe make sure you have a good friendship or relationship with someone who can give you what your husband cannot at this time, and giving him short opportunities to come through for you rather than 24-7 all at once. Lower expectations in short term, then you can see with lower expectations or even no expectations or reliance on him (despite your desire for that kind of relationship) what does he decide to do and how does he treat you when not under the gun. Does he take any responsibility for marriage or family, or is he passive and sensitive, thinking you don't love him because he is not the center of attention.

In short, you are recognizing that what you need you are not getting and question whether husband is capable of this. While waiting to find out, look after yourself, even if you cannot get what you need from any other established family or friend relationship, make a commitment to give it to yourself. In the end, knowing you will go the distance for yourself when nobody else will, is also very important. Ideally, you can go distance for someone else, but I too would be hesitant about not getting what you need in return and getting frustrated, especially in a marriage when someone has made that commitment to you and shows all appearance of withholding and being sneaky and lying about it. I also agree with other posters about the masturbation...my H prefers me to masturbation but if I am not available or sick or he wants to take the edge off, it is no big deal. It's just something guys do. Does he have any ummmm, photos or reminders of you he can use? Do you call him up and tease him at work and tell him to go in the closet or whatever... Monitoring is going to really make someone feel emasculated, unless he has admitted to cheating and has asked for help in being monitored. Otherwise, if you feel insecure and paranoid in this relationship, it is better to be out of the relationship and see how you feel if on your own. If you can't live without being with him, then you need to see how the relationship can be adjusted to make it okay, and for that you can only change things that are under your control. In my experience, short of clinical reasons, there is always some basis for paranoia. maybe it is psychological from the past (recent or distant), maybe it is a present thing, maybe it is a silly reason, but there is always a reason. So keep at it trying to figure it out. Controlling someone else isn't going to help your situation, as you are the one who has to live with yourself 24-7 and better to get your ducks in line before baby makes him or her self a priority and you have to be second in line.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You are doing the right thing by knowing when you are not feeling right and by advocating for yourself and when it is really not great for you, removing yourself from the situation... Lower expectations in short term


I sometimes wonder if I DO expect too much from my husband... It's difficult to remain objective, especially when you are a highly emotional/sensitive person like me.



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> While waiting to find out, look after yourself, even if you cannot get what you need from any other established family or friend relationship, make a commitment to give it to yourself. In the end, knowing you will go the distance for yourself when nobody else will, is also very important.


Thank you for this. I do need to set an example here, and caring for my own needs is a great way to do this. I know all of the "Hows" but putting them into practice is somewhat abstract for me...



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Does he have any ummmm, photos or reminders of you he can use? Do you call him up and tease him at work and tell him to go in the closet or whatever...


He does. And he doesn't use them. It's very hurtful... 



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> if you feel insecure and paranoid in this relationship, it is better to be out of the relationship and see how you feel if on your own. If you can't live without being with him, then you need to see how the relationship can be adjusted to make it okay, and for that you can only change things that are under your control. In my experience, short of clinical reasons, there is always some basis for paranoia. maybe it is psychological from the past (recent or distant), maybe it is a present thing, maybe it is a silly reason, but there is always a reason. So keep at it trying to figure it out. Controlling someone else isn't going to help your situation, as you are the one who has to live with yourself 24-7 and better to get your ducks in line before baby makes him or her self a priority and you have to be second in line.


This has been really making me think of my previous relationship, before my husband... I think my ex has a lot to do with my current state... I hope you guys don't mind if this becomes my online journal. It has been helpful to 1.) have an outlet, and 2.) receive feedback.

I was with my ex-boyfriend for five years. Over the years I came to realize just how mentally ill he was, but at the time our relationship was an extreme mix of pleasure and pain.

He was extremely physically abusive, and sometimes verbally abusive. He was very controlling, manipulative, a compulsive liar, cheater, etc. You name it. He had a messed up childhood. I mean, REALLY messed up, and learned to abuse from his family. I know this is no excuse, but he was just never able to overcome it.  He also had a terrible meth habit, and this never helped matters...

But there was another side to us... The great side. We were best friends, we did EVERYTHING together. We shared a lot of common interests, we were both highly emotional and sensitive people, and we were VERY emotionally connected. We had A LOT of intimacy. I was very happy and satiated with the level of connection we had. I really could tell him ANYTHING. We loved to talk and have conversations about everything and anything. One of my ex's favorite subjects was me. 

He adored me, worshiped the ground I walked on. He would frequently spend hours (literally!) talking about how wonderful I was, how lucky he was to be with me. How beautiful, intelligent, etc. etc. etc. I was. He loved retelling the story of how we met, his first impressions of me... I knew it would be a story he'd tell our kids and grandkids, over and over and over again. If only...

I knew he was never really stroking my ego... He really did feel that way about me, and I knew it. I felt it. He wrote me love letters, poetry, surprised me with gifts... Was almost perfect...

If it hadn't been for his violent streak, I'd say with absolute confidence that I'd have married him, and we'd still be together today. Unfortunately, he became worse and worse during the last two years until I couldn't take it anymore. I tried to get him help for the extreme things he suffered from childhood, but I was never able to get through to him.

He understood when I left, why I left. And it wasn't easy for me. At all. Of all the men I've left in my life, he was by far the hardest. I loved the great side of him with all my being. He would help a stranger in need, give you the shirt off his back. He could be so kind, and sweet and sensitive and he really cared about other people, and all of those qualities made it very, very hard to go. For good.

My husband had been a friend of mine, throughout the latter part of this relationship. We didn't talk about my relationship much, but he was there when I just needed someone to be there.

It's hard for me to objectively view my husband as the person he is: A loyal, commited man with relatively few flaws. He does whatever it takes to make me happy and comfortable... Except tell me all the sweet things, compliments, meaningful conversations or expressions of what I am to him. Contrary, he typically acts as though I am asking so much to just have him express the little things... the connectedness he says he feels. I want to know he thinks I'm a good person, a worthwhile person... Not just a damaged being. I want to know, that deep inside, he thinks as highly of me as my ex did.

I DO NOT want him to become my ex... But he is the complete opposite, with NO expressions of value, intimacy, etc.

The closest I get is an ocassional pet name. He texted me "Good nite, Love Bug" last night.. and it made my heart melt. I almost cried. I feel so hungry for his verbal and physical attention.

It doesn't take a whole lot... But it almost seems as if he is stuck just kind of relating to me as friends, and not as a significant other.

Or I could be wrong.

I'm a mess. I don't know why, but tonight I am just missing the feelings of connection and intimacy and importance I used to have with my ex. Only I want that with my husband now.

Is it messed up? I know I shouldn't compare the two of them, the each have good and bad sides. I want to accept my husband's differences and not feel bad that he isn't as expressive.

Other days, I just want him to dote on me. Just a little. A little fawning, a little flattery, just a little attention. I feel starved. 

Thanks for reading.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm not sure what others will have to say on this one but I do think that intimacy, "sweet talk" or whatever it's called, and regular expressions of love / commitment / etc are necessary in a healthy marriage. Yes, it CAN cross the line when one partner is giving this but it is never enough for the other - but it does have to be there. Someone could do a poll: "How often should a husband tell his wife he loves her?" and the answers would range from "once every five minutes" to "once a week" or even longer. The important thing is that the people in the marriage are happy with it.

Now as to comparing your past relationship with your marriage... traditionally that's frowned on but I think it's a little unrealistic to have a 5 year relationship and then forget about it instantly. I can tell you that I met my husband only two weeks after breaking up with my BF of 3 years - and by pure coincidence, my husband had been dumped by his GF of 4 years on the day I broke up with my xBF! When the timing is like that (or even overlaps, like in your case) some comparison is bound to happen. And while at the time you were probably attracted more to the things that made him different (like being more stable and calm) it's not completely bizarre that you would compare them on the other stuff too.

The thing is, though, at a certain point that stops. Whether it's 4 months into the relationship or a year, it stops. You stop thinking about the previous BF because you're REACHED THE CONCLUSION after whatever comparison you felt you needed to do, that your husband is the one you want to be with and your ex is an ex for a reason (which you clearly state, the violence, meth use, etc). Once you reach that conclusion, there's no need for your husband's shortcomings - whatever they may be - to be measured up against someone you used to be in a relationship with. 

I will say that when my H and I were first together, I did find myself comparing the two men a lot. Since I was so crazy about H he always won - but I felt a nagging sense of "I really should NOT be doing this" every time I said to myself "exBF would never do that...." Eventually (after maybe 6 months of the relationship with H) that just tapered off. I haven't really thought about exBF as a relationship since then - although we periodically talk on FB and H has met him (we had to go several times to his house to pick up furniture and such, they even went to coffee without me at least once). So I guess my point is, comparing is human, probably not the best idea but reality, but it shouldn't go on forever, and it shouldn't negatively affect the relationship you have now.

I think if you try to rephrase things like:


> I am just missing the feelings of connection and intimacy and importance I used to have with my ex. Only I want that with my husband now.


and say "I am missing feelings of connection and intimacy and importance with my husband" and leave it at that, at least your husband hasn't lost before he even starts.

If your husband was NEVER connected and intimate, then it may just not be his personality. If he was, and that changed, then there is hope to bring it back. But if he is a cold person, you may have to accept that that is just who he is.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Eureka! This is my husband and I! I found a great article detailing emotional abuse: http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml This article could have been written ABOUT us! So relieved to have a starting point to move forward from!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

If you believe there is emotional abuse in your marriage... I think counseling is a must if you are going to save it. Are you still waiting for your appointment? I hope you get in to see someone soon. I started reading the article but it's really long and I need to search for a recipe for lunch hehe but I'm happy you found a missing puzzle piece


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

"He was extremely physically abusive, and sometimes verbally abusive. He was very controlling, manipulative, a compulsive liar, cheater, etc. You name it. He had a messed up childhood. I mean, REALLY messed up, and learned to abuse from his family. I know this is no excuse, but he was just never able to overcome it. He also had a terrible meth habit, and this never helped matters..."

OK, mentally and logically you knew there was a reason for his abuse, and logically you rose above it. BUT at the physiological level and the emotional level you DID experience it. Logic cannot make that go away. 

I was in relationships like this: my bio family and some others. Always swallowing down the immediate feeling of anger by justification and logic. 

It results in a sort of FLOW issue with anger. The anger is legitimate but you let it build up because you know logically it will do no good to express it at the moment, leading to disruption, etc. And you are dealing at the time with unreasonable mentally ill people who profess to love you, you want to succeed with the relationship, firmly believe that love conquers all (it can, but push does come to shove, eventually, everything has a natural balance that it seeks). 

So at a good moment you express the anger in a way that is not alienating, etc. and you think you have dealt with it. Maybe you have private rages or get PMS-y or you try to channel the energy into working out or some kind of constructive behavior that is a little bit O-C, or try to get involved/immersed in something that will provide you with an outlet/sense of accomplishment/distraction for the anger that cannot be expressed at the time it is directly experienced.

I went to a year of therapy. I learned that my anger was legitimate. Yet when I did express it, nicely, at the time when things happened, I was met with denial, being told I was sensitive, railroading, gaslighting, accusations/deflection, control stuff, threatened with abandonment (short term/long term makes no difference) etc. Followed after a bit by cards, presents that had no value for me but which could not be refused for fear of hurting H's feelings, dinners out, shows and expressions of intimacy but without the feeling that I could REALLY trust him not to do things to trigger anger. In fact, I would take the TIME to SPECIFICALLY TELL him exactly which behaviors would trigger me and I did not want him to do, and he would do them when I least expected it, that is after reassurances that he would not. Yet I never left, I never hauled off and returned a scrotum twist for an unwanted nipple twist, never showed him the door. I accepted his version of things that I could not take a joke, was not as easy going as W (who left him after she cheated on him...gee I wonder why!!!!!)

I completed a year of therapy and then I went to a Native American drum healer. She told me yes I had dealt with anger but it is a FLOW issue. Like neurological circuits in your brain can learn to have erratic behavior, like spastic behavior, your anger circuits can get messed up and get backed up and then come out in spurts. This is caused by AVOIDING legitimate anger displays/communication at the time that they are warranted. Some of this comes by putting someone else's needs ahead of your own, accommodating behavior that in a primal environment would lead to them not getting exactly what it is you give them (sex, food, attention, shelter, etc.) It does nobody any favors. There are two sides to a messed up person. When someone lives in an environment where they receive inappropriate feedback for their behaviors, it encourages their pathology or whatever you want to call it (abuse, etc.) Not everyone resorts to logic for their behavior patterns. Thinking that other people think like us and will use logic to try to rise to a better interpersonal relationship is a huge trap we throw ourselves into. EVERYONE, even people like us, are primal when it comes to relation patterns. To deny your anger is to toy with insanity - whether actual or living a life that is never in the present - always in the past - having to remember triggers that will lead to you being hurt - watching your back 24x7 constant state of anxiety which has its physical effects or living in the future waiting for that period when things are good and getting what you need emotionally from that other person and then having to call that back when things are rough after abuse.

IMAGINE TRYING TO WATCH A MOVIE JERKING BACK AND FORTH LIKE THAT TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF IT. 

I lived that way in relationships and family situations for years and it is not good. Listen to your instinct and gut and when you get that not-good feeling stop in your tracks and stay in the moment. Yes, make sure you are safe but express what it is that the other person is doing to make you feel 'not there' or upset. Do NOT swallow it. The same goes for when things are going well and you are feeling in the 'zone' of smooth and nice and mellow. Express the little thing to your partner that made you feel that way. Then take it a bit further, you can find out what makes your partner feel triggered and also what makes them feel that mellow 'present' feeling. I think over time if you stay true to yourself then you fluctuate more around the mellow zone that the extreme zigzagging. Holding onto anger is not a good thing. The world moves on and if you haven't dealt with it, you cannot move on with the world and people in it, and things get very out of synch, adding to the feeling of disconnect.

It is not a MAGNITUDE of anger that is the problem, it is that the flow builds up and is blocked and causes leaks until the whole thing blows. Expressing legitimate hurts and anger at those hurts is key. And get your head out of the logic about what is SUPPOSED to hurt. If it hurts, and makes you feel upset, it is legitimate. Hurt is emotion. There is emotional truth and then there is the truth that 2+2=4 which in some number systems is only the part of the truth that we all agreed to agree on but is not always true. 

Finding a centering activity that connects to other people would be a good idea. Or you could start with something simple like learn baby massage or pet massage or even getting a houseplant or a goldfish and taking care of it. The key is to center and relate to something living...and then relate to yourself, and partner in those little ways.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Homemaker - will respond to your excellent post when I get to a computer so I can write more, (thank you for your words, I am thankful for your wisdom)!! Update: my husband has gone to the dentist and feigned pain to get Vicodin. Vicodin has more opioids in it than did the Tramadol he was addicted to. So here we go again. Any little dose of the drug makes him a complete @$$ and he took two today, not because he was in pain, but because he wanted to get high. What do I do??  I am depressed and put off by his harsh words and his ignoring me. I feel helpless and I hate the victim feeling, so how can I cope in a responsible manner? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry to read this, YP. I know that for many, drug abuse is a dealbreaker. It sounds like another topic for your marriage counseling. 

Given the entire situation: you're pregnant, he's abusing drugs (or so it seems), and you believe him to be emotionally abusive - is there someone you could stay with if it came to that? A friend or family member? It may be necessary for you to take some time away from him in a healthy environment at least until things get in some sort of order. Are you thinking about leaving him or are you not at that point yet? I did read that article about emotional abuse and its message seemed to be that people should leave their emotional abusers (I tend to agree with this - as these people don't usually change and are very good at manipulating counseling). So I'm just wondering if that was something you were thinking about. Obviously you have to consider your health and wellbeing during your pregnancy and someone who is abusing drugs doesn't really have a place in a pregnant woman's life, at least to my way of thinking.

I had a terrible ear infection in my 20s and they gave me Vicodin. I took one and once it wore off, I just enjoyed the head-splitting pain. What a godawful drug. It made me feel like something the cat spat up. I'll never understand how some people enjoy that.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

When he takes drugs, you leave.
That is natural reaction, no need to overthink it.
You can't have a relationship with someone who is taking drugs in the way that you describe.
The way to take care of yourself and to build self-trust is to take your pregnant self to a place where he can't come harass you or phone you or email you or anything like that. If you want a father for your baby you can rely on you need to set the bar where it is supposed to be. There is no time like the present for doing that.
Going somewhere is fine. You don't have to justify it. If it costs money then that is a natural consequence. A joint account or some kind of budget doesn't take precedence over you needing to be in a home where you feel safe emotionally and physically, well it would in twisted logic but the point is to call twisted logic what it is.
Do what feels right. To find out how it feels you have to do something. So go somewhere of your liking and see how it feels. Chances are, it will feel a lot better than trying to communicate with someone who isn't even there emotionally to relate to! How energy sucking is that. Ugh. But as long as you stay and accept it, he will keep treating you that way, because there are no consequences to the behavior. And, he is getting your attention, negative positive makes no difference. 
It is still attention, and in the mind of a man-baby attention=love.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

How are you doing? Haven't seen any posts from you in a while. I hope things are getting better. Give us an update when you can.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks, Omega. I actually tried posting yesterday but was having probs signing in. It was our one year anniversary and it was horrible! We had made plans and he flaked and left me after we began fighting! No card, no flowers, none of our plans were fullfilled! I was so hurt and angry! We didn't make up until much later in the night when I told him I didn't want him in my bed. I have decided since I can't leave when he acts up, that he will be the one to go. It's MY house and MY bed, and I really hate being like that but I am SICK of being bullied in my own home! So far he has really disliked how much more controlling I have become, but I'm not sure what else to do until our appointment on the 13th. Ugh! I hate posting from mobile because it really limits the length of what I can submit - I will say that he texted me this morning "date nite 2nite " that's the man I love, peeking at me and giving me hope that he is still who I thought he was for so many years. Thanks for checking on me, will post more later!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear your anniversary was a washout. I can definitely understand being upset over that. But good for you for standing up for yourself.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Well, when he got home we got ready and went to the mall to get our pictures taken - I had fun, but he barely faked a smile. He said he was tired and I tried to brush it off. While waiting, I suggested we'd get a snack at the food court. Again, he was listless and disengaged. We then went to an arcade/putt-putt place here in town. He seemed to be enjoying himself some of the time, I was having a blast and stopped caring how annoyed he seemed the rest of the time. We stopped at a bingo hall on the way home and had a go at the last round. I *almost* won $1,000! I think that would have been the only thing that would make him smile, but I feel miserable that he didn't seem to be enjoying himself. I had asked him what he would want to do. All he said was 'sleep'. Nights like these make me think he is depressed and I feel helpless in that he doesn't open up and share anything with me. I care about his happiness but I don't know how to make him happy except giving him porn, pills & money.  Appointment in 2 days...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Sooo... We made it to our first counseling appointment. 

We primarily focused on me. I was okay with that, knowing I have the greater issues.

The counselor said that I should do exercises or get into a craft-type activity to get my mind off of problems, when I want a resolution (???)

That didn't strike me as productive... Maybe for my anxiety, yes... but when we have a problem... Shouldn't we talk it out??? I felt like she was kind of blowing off the severity of my paranoia and insecurity, and at this point I am wondering if counseling will actually give me the deeper level healing I need??

She explained that my husband is probably a person who needs to think about things before he can resolve a problem, (unfortunately, I know from past experience, that if left to approach me at a later time to resolve a problem, that he WILL NOT. He will not resolve a problem until AFTER it escalates - I feel like he must SEE the severity before he acts). 

This has been so frustrating for me, because I would like to just tell him my problem and have him react with care and concern... Even if he doesn't completely understand the How's or Why's. How difficult would that be for someone you 'love'?? I have told him this many times, and the very next time I have a problem, it's the same BS. 

Often, after calmly letting him know that I am upset/disturbed/whathaveyou - he reacts with annoyance... Rolling his eyes, invalidating my feelings, telling me what I should/shouldn't feel, etc. He doesn't ask questions like, "Why do you feel that way?" or "What are you afraid of?" I think maybe he doesn't really care most times.

Since he reacts this way when an issue arrises, I can quickly become very hurt and defensive, and often trying to 'regulate' his responses, (by asking him to not dismiss my feelings... They are my reality, after all, or to not change the subject - which he always finds it 'relevant' to the current subject since somehow I did the same thing way back when...)

Now... Not only do I have the initial problem, but I feel bad because he reacts with so little concern, and then changes the subjects... This is when we get into shouting matches. By this time I have often lost hope of doing things the "right way" and just shut down/leave/cry/etc.

Then he is right. I am crazy. 

There is a payoff for us both somewhere in this. I know that my payoff is in the escalation, unfortunately, since there isn't a reward for being calm and rational about being open and vulnerable with him.

What does he get? To see how nuts he can make me? Does this make him feel in control or valued somehow? I know that he has often said that he's lived with a HUGE fear of rejection throughout his life... But what does that really mean? I, personally, I don't like rejection... but what does it mean to fear it? Really? I'm talking to a tree-stump as far as getting this information from him... He lets out little bits and pieces and will become uncomfortable or even mean if I persist in trying to understand.

So, logically, I know I have to change my behavior... I'm afraid that I don't know what to do when I have a problem and he responds by acting annoyed... How do I stop the escalation?? What do I do to displace that hurt? How does the problem get resolved??? Better yet, is there even a way I can get him to see that no matter how "dumb" my problems are, that they cause real hurt and distress for me??

Once the problem escalates, and by this point he's full of mean and hateful words, I just have to get away from him. No matter what, I must get away. We can be in public or private, I cannot just sit and allow him to verbally assault me anymore.

When I walk and remove myself from the situation, he will follow, and is sure to tell me how "Childish" and "Immature" I am being... but as far as I am concerned, I am escaping a source of great pain. He has even gone so far as to say that I am "manipulating" him in this way. I don't agree with that... at this point I am no longer concerned about resolution, or even talking to him, just concerned with getting away from the hate/put-downs/insults/etc. I don't even care if he wants to fix things or not at this point... I just don't care. 

Because I am very worked up by this point, he must make a considerable effort to get me "back" into speaking mode with him. It's hard to be open again after it feels like he just 'kicked me while I'm down'. The slightest hint of insincerity is enough to send me packing once more. It feels like he is saying things... Not to resolve the issue, but to get me to 'comply' with what he wants and I am very resistant once I feel that is the case.

Since we were speaking to a third party, I felt it important to see if my husband will open up and admit his own faults (without my bringing them up for him), he hasn't yet, but it was only one session. I hope to lead by example by being open about my part in all of this. I figure even if he doesn't, we will get around to working on him sooner or later.

We had one huge fight after counseling. Ended up with him on the couch, and me in the hospital. (I had uncontrolled vomiting and was told it was due to Hyperemesis & Dehydration- but I'm convinced it was stress). I had submitted to the idea that we could not make things work, no matter what I tried. The next morning he crawled into bed with me, took my hand. I looked into his eyes and I knew that he was struggling to find the words to say what it was he was feeling. No words needed, I knew. 

Since the big fight... In which I told him he had his walking papers... That I no longer wished to be his scapegoat and that I could have a less stressful life without him... He has been calmer and more open. 

Tonight was a rare exception in which I felt he was REALLY talkative for some reason... He talked to me about music that moved him, that made him tear up, (One of which was a Bruno Mars song, "Nothin' On You"... No sentimental remarks really... Just that he could 'feel' the sincerity of the musician. He could have said it made him think of me, but hey. I'm just glad he's talking. About ANYTHING!!)  ...the differences between actors and musicians, etc. He even talked to some strange guy in a store we went to... Initially I could tell that he was annoyed... but somehow... He started engaging with this guy. (I think they were talking about Guitars)?? I felt really happy that he was opening up, even just a little... I know how protected he is. I just kind of wandered off and let them be with their conversation. It was really uplifting for me... He is NOT a people person, so I knew this was special. 

Then I realized something today. He has been out of Vicodin for a few days - calculating back... I think he is just getting back to sobriety. He can be the SWEETEST person when he is not on pills. Sadly, I've only had glimpses of this in the past. For as long as I've known he has taken pills.. for energy, for whatever. He is a different man without them... I know that leaves him with a 'naked' feeling to go without... 

Tonight when I looked into his eyes, I could tell that he was present, and not vacant, listless, lifeless. I love my husband so much... But it's good to know that I can live without him if I need to. Our second appointment is in two weeks, (couldn't get anything sooner). Also, I am going to see if I can get a referal for a psychotherapist or something... To help me look at deeper issues from childhood abuse... I'm hoping my husband will do the same... 

Thank you guys for reading and helping me along the way. This has been a great release for my anxiety, knowing that I can come here and let everything out.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

The first few visits to a counselor, you're "interviewing" them - so if you feel that this counselor is not putting the focus where it needs to be, keep shopping around. Given what you've told us, he might be more "fertile for discussion" than you - but then, we're only hearing "your side". 

Did your counselor talk about what kind of exercises are appropriate? I have always been under the impression that a pregnant woman should not BEGIN an exercise program during a pregnancy - and I'm no doctor, but I think suggesting anything like that to a pregnant woman is a little weird. Now, if you're running marathons already, and she's suggesting you mix it up with a little line dancing, okay - but you might want to avoid joining a cardio kickboxing class if you haven't been to the gym a lot lately. As for crafts... um, really? I (and most people who are not naturally talented at them) find crafts to be very frustrating, becaues they tend to require a lot of very close, picky work that can stress ordinary people out more than destress them. So right from the top your counselor is not looking like such a great catch to me -- but I could be wrong. I've only had one therapist and went to her for a while before they finally figured out that the "panic attacks" she was trying to treat me for were actually gallbladder attacks, and the gallbladder surgery was rather more effective than telling her about my family, and pretending to breathe without blowing out a candle. But anyway, that's not your problem. 

I also find it a little surprising that she thinks she knows what kind of a person your husband "probably is", after one session. Unless her theory is that "men are like x, women are like y". 

Well, anyway, it sounds like you are starting to delve into your "stuff" and that is good - but are you also doing something about the "hard" stuff like him being on pills, and other worrisome stuff going on between you guys over the past few weeks? 

I hope you don't have any more of those hyperemesis-type episodes.  Sounds very rough on you. {{{YinPrincess}}}


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

So, we had our 2nd appointment with the same counselor the day before yesterday. I found it to be a more helpful session in which we delved a bit more into validating each other and understanding. It's apparent that this is going to be a work-in-progress for quite some time. The counselor told me that I was "very demanding" and I think may have missed the point that I feel very neglected and unimportant to my husband because he is obsessed with school and preoccupied with his interests. She did tell him that he does need to create more of a balance between our marriage and his obligations. He is still having a hard time validating me, and we've had some small squabbles since then, but I believe his awareness, and even his interest is increasing. As far as I know he is still sober, except the beer he bought a few nights ago. I reminded him that only occassional drinking is okay, and he has been okay with it. He's a happy and affectionate person when drinking - I wish he were more like that when sober, so...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

..I take what affection and attention I can get for now. He buys an average of a 6 pack per week, and may have two a day for a few days, so it's not excessive. Today we had a major appointment with my perinatologist to determine the gender of our baby. When I got up this morning he had left a sweet note on the bathroom sink to say "Good Morning" and that he wanted to make the best of the day.  It looks like we're going to be having a girl.  My husband really prefered having a girl to a boy, so I can see he's a bit more excited. He also picked up a few extra hours at work, and we submitted our application for housing assistance today. Things are on the upswing, but I can feel myself being doubtful. I wish I could just enjoy the good that's happening without wondering how long it will last. We have another session in 6 days. I am hopeful that my doubt will go away after some consistancy in our new patterns and mindsets. Still planning IC for myself. Thank you for allowing me to vent - will write more later!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

But through all of this, is your husband in any sort of treatment for his addiction, or is he just not using his drug of choice? Because even if he's controlling his alcohol use right now, you do realize that it's a depressant, like the opiods and that it's almost certain that he's going to escalate there too, right? There's a huge difference between being a "dry drunk" and working a program. If he's just avoiding his drug of choice, then he's not addressing the things that lead him to use. That means he's not working on anything that will really let him move forward emotionally. 

From what you've said, it sounds as though the two of you DO have issues with communication and relating to each other, etc. However, it also sounds like you also have a lot of the classic enmeshed qualities that enablers and addicts have in their relationships. If your counselor is just going to tell you to relax and him to manage his time, without addressing the fact that a lot of your reactions are in response to his behaviors when he's using, etc., then frankly--you're wasting your time and money.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Gypsy you bring up a good point. I haven't told the counselor about his addictions or his occassional alcohol use, because I wanted HIM to be the one to bring it up. (I feel like pointing the finger at him during counseling instead of focusing on myself will make me look like I am trying to blame him, or to deflect responsibility from myself..?)

She does need to know about it, though. You are absolutely right about that. I had been trying to get my husband interested in IC, but I'm afraid that he's not interested because I won't be there to be 'the crazy one' and he'll have to confront his issues all by himself... Something he really doesn't seem to want to do.

I feel slightly perturbed that she can make the judgment that I am "very demanding" without knowing all of the story, and it was only our second meeting with her. I could see that my husband felt validated and relaxed... I am trying to set boundaries for myself; what I will and will not tolerate... so if that is "demanding" then YES I AM. And yet I'm offended? 

Starting to think maybe I am nuts. Lately, husband has said things like, "You think anyone else will put up with you?" and things of the like. No matter how much I try to blow them off, it isn't right that he is attacking me and belittling me in that way. It's affecting my self-esteem, which is already deficient anyways.

After a few good days, things went sour again today. We had signed an agreement in counseling, that he would not try to change or invalidate my 'triggers', but instead do the understanding/positive feedback thing. No such luck here. As soon as I am offended or have a need to communicate, he's right back to saying and doing the things that hurt me. Only now he can say, "The counselor says that change won't happen overnight". So, now he's got an excuse not to try? Great. That's exactly what he didn't do before. 

I am SO READY to kick him to the curb. I just can't stand this. Even the good days aren't that great... Just days we don't fight. There's always that underlying resentment in both of us, though. I HATE it. I am trying so hard, and looking so deeply at myself, but I feel my progress is lacking. I know I'm impatient, but most days my brain is just filled with so much... JUNK that I just want relief!!!! 

What stinks the most, is that I know my husband isn't a "bad" person. He's just incapable of being emotional, loving, verbal.

Turns out, not having those things is a dealbreaker for me. 

ETA: I wanted to add my other posts here, for others who may not see what my other issues are.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/29551-not.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/29913-talking-during-sex-distraction-him.html 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-addiction/31139-husband-insisting-he-needs-his-pills.html 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/33615-wandering-eyes.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/financial-problems-marriage/33581-joint-vs-separate-bank-accounts.html


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Today, more distressing news. My perinatologist referred me to a neurologist for the cysts in my brain. The neurology department called and said I needed to be referred to neurosurgery. This is confusing and scary for me. I know everyone here probably thinks I'm crazy anyhow. Maybe (now) I have a reason?  Just trying to look at the bright side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

To be honest, I never thought you were the least bit crazy or even odd! You seem pretty normal to me. Expecting your spouse to be loving and attentive doesn't seem abnormal to me at all.

I hope these cysts turn out to be something that can fixed without too much pain for you. It sounds scary. Was this something you knew about already? It seems odd to me that a perinatologist would even think to check for something in your brain. Whatever it is, I hope it's fixed soon. {{{{HUGS}}}} and keep us updated.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

The thing is though.....he doesn't have any reason to bring up his addiction. Why would he? That would threaten his primary relationship--his relationship with pills and alcohol. That's what he's going to protect with all he's got--because he probably feels without those--BOTH of those--he's got nothing.

Of course the therapist sees you as "very demanding" when the she can't see the elephant in the room that explains it all. If you don't present your relationship dynamic within the framework of addiction--his addiction and your enabling, then she can't make any kind of accurate assessment to begin to help you. It's like not telling her that one of you doesn't speak English--how can she help if she can't speak the right language?

His addiction and the fact that emotional growth stops at the point that addiction seems to be the biggest factor in your problems. You say he's not emotional, loving or verbal--probably because he's not present. He's holding his "stuff" together between pills or between the beers that take the edge off without the pills. Or where he'll hid the pills, or pay for the pills. Doesn't leave a lot of time to think about sweet nothings. 

I almost think that marriage counseling at this point is not the most effective path you could take. I think that you looking seriously into Al-Anon would be a lot more beneficial. You seem to have a pattern of getting with addicts, and now you're going to have a baby with one. Sounds like now is the perfect time to get your head on straight and figure out how you're going to create and enforce some boundaries for yourself and this child.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Today, more distressing news. My perinatologist referred me to a neurologist for the cysts in my brain. The neurology department called and said I needed to be referred to neurosurgery. This is confusing and scary for me. I know everyone here probably thinks I'm crazy anyhow. Maybe (now) I have a reason?  Just trying to look at the bright side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally don't think your crazy! Hey--it's one more good thing about your little peanut--they might not have found whatever this is if it hadn't been for this pregnancy!

I know that not knowing and the waiting is scary--but I'm sure it's all going to be fine and work out exactly right!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Omega and COGypsy - thank you both for your kind and gentle words. Some days I really do think I'm losing it. I am going to speak up with the counselor at our next meeting and mention my husband's (former) addictions, to get us all the help, understanding and referrals we need. I plan to talk to my husband about it sometime beforehand, so he doesn't feel ambushed...

Objectivity, turns out, is a big challenge.

So here's one way I am trying to change my reactions..

Today my husband has been quiet. We fought last night, (again over the wandering eyes, and inevitable invalidation/judgment). We didn't make up before I left for work. We didn't make up when I got home. (He tried, but I was stubborn, very hurt, and not wanting to resolve things. I was in my "give up" mode).

Then I got the call I mentioned earlier. I texted him at work to let him know. I was still in stubborn mode, but figured he's entitled to know what's going on with the host-body of his daughter. Okay. Honestly, maybe I was a little disappointed that I hadn't heard from him all day. 

When he got home after work in the afternoon, we were cordial; lukewarm, if you will.  Things got a little weird for me because he crawled into bed with me, and we slept until almost 9pm. (I have three excuses... I am sick, pregnant, and I work nights, which means I sleep as much as possible during the day). He NEVER sleeps during the day. Ever. Ever. EVER.

I think he was feeling a bit depressed. It's hard to say.. I wish he'd communicate more about what's going on in his mind. When we awoke we began talking more... a little about his day. A little about what the phone call could mean. (We know worst case scenario besides death is the installation of a shunt from my brain to my abdomen, to prevent hydrocephalus).

And then... he started to... put the moves on me.  I really wasn't feeling connected enough with him, but I recognize sex is an important part of marriage, so I allowed his advances. He actually managed to say (and do) some nice things, which helped me to feel more comfortable. 

Then.. How do I put this without sounding weird and TMI... He 'withdrew' to 'finish'. (Talk about a High School flashback...) This is the second time he's done this in the last week. I'm pregnant... obviously the fear of getting me pregnant is ruled out as a reason... He knows I don't particularly enjoy the mess, (and it's always quite a mess)... So why do it?

When I asked, he said he was curious about what a 'different sensation' would feel like... (Say wut)? 

My mind automatically skipped to the "he's been sleeping with someone else and this is a recent habit he's created to not get HER pregnant" thing. I try not to think of these things, but my MIND just comes up with this stuff, my paranoia is torturing me.

I didn't grill him. He was actually kind to me afterwards, and he seemed relieved to be "okay" with me again. But in my mind, I am seriously losing it. I have OCD or something, because I can't quit trying to find a reasonable, realistic explanation...

In order to distract myself from some of these thoughts and try to actually take him at face value... I posted another thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/33912-looking-ideas.html) thinking maybe he's just getting a little bored of the same ol' same ol'.

I texted him gently tonight from work, (he was at home), and asked him to relay some of his ideas for sexual experimentation. I said I thought he should include me if he wants to try new things... That I want to try them, too! He seemed eager and "open minded" but unsure of what exactly, he'd like. Well, he did mention he'd like to make love at a favorite hiking spot. 

Turning my mind to focus on creating/fullfilling fantasy with him has helped a little, although I feel massively insecure about being 'that girl' when I'm a 160 pound preggo. :/

This is just it, my brain focuses on the negative, worst-possible case... every single time. I need to stop it.

I really don't think my husband would cheat on me... but then again, there are a lot of people who believe that about their spouses, and end up cheated on... (No offense to anyone... I've been cheated on as well)... The only reason that I don't think he would cheat is that he's REALLY suspicious of people and their motives...

What else can I do to relieve my mind of this obssessive process??? It's making it difficult to think or function as if I've nothing on my mind...  I want to tell him what's going on in my mind... but instead of being understanding, I know he will likely be dismissive and defensive.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Becoming emotionally checked out. Today we decided to go for a hike when he got off work. He was quiet and distant (big surprise). Then we got to our spot and was watching the sunset when he decided he was going to ask me to perform on him, and in not so many words, not receive any reciprocation. Well, my reward, as he put it, would be to become aroused. Gee thanks. I feel like a hooker. He played the 'well you asked about my fantasies' card. Of course with a new variation. He didn't say anything sweet or loving. He wasn't affectionate. Nothing was meaningful. He resented my need to be prepared and informed of his intent, and thus not be caught off-guard. Gee I'm a real stick in the mud. Having had a history of sexual abuse you'd think he could be less objectifying of me. I'm not even mad. Just numb and not caring about anything anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Just including this link, as a part of my 'journal' here. Thanks. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/34210-he-called-me-b-word.html


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Sweetie, if you have cysts in your brain, you are not crazy at all. But I do think that you should try filling your own cup before filling your husbands. Your counselor said to get a craft activity to help you stay focused...but I think really what was meant, was that when you are feeling out of sorts and cannot get what you need from your husband, you can develop the habit of giving something to yourself. It doesn't have to be anything material, but it needs to be something substantial, that you really want to have or have spent the time doing. Paranoia is real...but you don't have to react to it. Because a lot of times it has only a biological basis, and other times, even when there is a psychological or emotional basis, such as a deceitful husband, so long as you are not deceitful and you can take care of yourself, then it matters not. As for my next theory I only put it here because it applied to myself in the past: The paranoia could also be self-inflicted to some degree, in that you know your husband's history and don't trust yourself because you know he is not trustworthy and yet you keep exposing yourself to trusting him and getting the same results. It is possible you are using him to punish yourself for something because you are mad at yourself for some kind of thing that happened in the past that you never forgave yourself for. Who knows. The subconscious is a strange thing, and in any case, whatever is going on in your brain - the actual gray matter - kind of puts a stop to any kind of theory. You could probably qualify for a social worker and some serious assistance due to the situation of neurosurgery referral as well as pregnancy. You owe it to yourself to create a situation where you can trust whomever your caregiver will be if you are to have any kind of surgery, and even if not. 

As for the paranoia, I experienced that when I had allergies, as I have said bnefore, it can be caused by any kind of neurological or adrenal system dysfunction and any kind of stress because stress is tied to your adrenal system pretty much directly, is going to add power to the heightened state to begin with. As pregnancy introduces a whole bunch of hormones, that also pumps up your body's defense system, as there are a whole bunch of new antibodies and what not circulating in your blood that even though are caused by a baby, your body tags as 'foreign'...which puts body on alert as to adrenal system anyway. Then if you have cysts in your brain your body is attempting to fight those too as they are not normal...

You can experience the sensation of paranoia without doing anything about it. Think of it like the times your smoke detector goes off when you are cooking....since you know the source you are dismayed by the sound and it gets your attention, but the only action required is to ignore and silence. If you could not silence it, it can safely be ignored. 

Just understand that you must absolutely manage stress because it will only make things worse. So find a way to self-calm and re-center, do Lamaze/oxygenization breathing, do something nice for yourself...but train yourself to center and be selfish in a way that you can accommodate without involving your H. 

I am sorry about your situation. I hope that a solution will find you soon, actually, I hope that you will experience a miracle of some sort.

As for your H, I think he sounds like a bit of a baby and is not really someone you should trust. Maybe it is possible to have a marriage with him long-term, but right now I think you have to find a way to be strong and to rely on yourself and to create a buffer zone that makes you less vulnerable to his unsteadiness/es.


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## jzzzzzzz (Nov 5, 2011)

post a review on Partner Facts add a partnertract to your husband and then relax. 

being insecure is a waste of time. And if you hate the fact that he makes you feel this way. break up... life is way too short.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Drama! He went to the dentist to get another prescription fot vicodin AGAIN without having any work done. I called and scheduled an emergency appointment with the counselor and managed to get my car started and left. (I later got stranded but that's another story). When he came home and discovered I wasn't there he texted me and I told him what I was doing... Disclosing his addiction and getting referrals to a.) Have him legally removed from my home, and b.) Advice on where to proceed with separation. Halfway through the session he showed up, and this counselor, a different one from the one we've been seeing, wasn't about to let him get away with his victim BS!! When she started getting into the deeper stuff he became choked when he admitted we weren't as close as he'd like us to be. I was kind of shocked, but he quickly recovered and went back into stoneface mode. After the session, he admitted that he had nothing to lose by being truthful, and a lot of pain to gain by being a liar. We will see how this pans out. We have another appointment on the 17th, and if I don't start seeing SOME improvement I will move onto separation and divorce. I hate to come to this, but enough is enough and he crossed two MAJOR boundaries today. I feel good! Like I have some control over what happens to me!! Just wanted to update you guys!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

jzzzzzzz said:


> post a review on Partner Facts add a partnertract to your husband and then relax.
> 
> being insecure is a waste of time. And if you hate the fact that he makes you feel this way. break up... life is way too short.


 I'm not posting squat about my husband. He may be a jerk, but that's just uncalled for. I want him to be a better happier human being, not post his worst traits on a website like that. I still love him and I want to HELP, not hurt!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

YP, that guy is just advertising his site, he's been spamming the boards, I'm 99% sure he didn't actually read any of your posts 

So. WOW. The vicodin thing is just absurd. Thank goodness it's "out" to the MC now because that was just ridiculous that it wasn't before. Looks like he needs the "intervention" style speech. "Get your sh** together or we're getting divorced and that's final." Many addicts won't be brought around by that, they are too far gone, if you cause drama for them in their addiction, you are just "in the way" of them getting what they want, which is the drug, not a happy family. 

First the "bi****" comment and now this... he's got a lot to think about and work on. Probably better for everyone if he did that in his own space. Separation must be totally heartbreaking to contemplate but you want to KNOW for a FACT that you won't spend the rest of your life wondering if you were enabling his addictive behavior. If getting him out of the house is the best way to make sure of that, it's also giving you guys a better chance of living post-addiction.


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