# Is it wrong to talk to other women before I'm officially separated from my wife?



## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

Here is my previous thread but I'll try to summarize:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...fe-cheated-me-i-need-advice-what-do-next.html

Basically.....

- Sexless marriage for years

- I found out in September that she was cheating

- I was hurt and wanted a pursue divorce

- She said she was sorry and wanted to work on things so I moved back in

- Since then, she has shifted the blame to me and doesn't feel like she cheated.

- Life did not get better and she did not appear sorry for what she did since she's "human".

- I was originally going to leave but changed my mind since she's the one that cheated. I want her to leave.

- I've moved all my things in the guest room and I'm staying there until she leaves.

I will tell the truth that I do still love her. Going through all of this has often left me feeling lonely and depressed. We have 2 sons together and I also feel bad for them. I also realize that a big part of her behavior is because of me. See, throughout our marriage, I've always taken 100% responsibility for our problems. I was the one always saying sorry and trying to fix things. She's never had many responsibilities since I've taken care of 90% of the bills as well as anything she needs. I see now that she was using me as a meal ticket. I was there to take care of her and the kids while she goes out to do her dirt. Because of this environment that I've created, she has trouble with admitting that she is wrong about anything. Her pride is too great. The only way I see to fix this marriage is for me to get on my knees and beg her to give it another shot. I would have to admit to her that her cheating was my fault and that I will do anything to get her back.

I made the mistake in November of telling her that I'm sorry that I found out about her affair. I told her that because of the pain that I experience every day, I would rather not know what happened. I also asked her if we could just forget everything and just try to start new. She pretty told me that life sucks with me and that she wants to separate. I was furious but I also felt lower than dirt. That's how I got to where I am now. I got some good advice here and I have been doing some reading to better myself. I started working out and I've already lost over 15 pounds. I've started to pay better attention to my appearance and tried to keep myself busy so I won't think about things. Even then, it's been really hard. Some days, I would sit home and think about where she is and what she is doing. I would go online and check the phone records to see who she was calling and I would text her to check in. The depression started to come back. I'm actually happy that I sold my guns a few years back because I feel that if I didn't, I would not be here to type this today. Although my kids don't know what's going on, they are a big motivation for me to keep pushing on through this.

I have a old female friend on Facebook. We've been friends for a while and I've confided in her about what has been going on and she has been supportive. She is not pushing for me to get divorce and she often tells me that it would be good for my kids if I patched things up with my wife. However, she does agree that I should not beg her to fix things and that I should only try to work on the marriage if she takes responsibility for cheating and does at least half of the heavy lifting to regain my trust. Despite all of this, we both have acknowledged that we are attracted to each other. She is single and said that she would love for me to come visit her sometime next year. She's lives across the country so the communication has so far been only through skype and facebook. Also, I will admit that over the past 2 weeks, the conversations have been very inappropriate. There has been no sexting but I will admit that I've said some things that a married man shouldn't say. This relationship has been helping me feel better. I've been paying much less attention to my wife. I no longer check the phone logs to see where she is and she no longer has control over my emotions. I will also say that this relationship that we have has been getting more and more inappropriate each day that we talk. We sometimes send hundreds of messages to each other every day and talk for at least 2 hours too.

Her sister has been trying to help patch up our marriage but I told her that we are done. Although my wife hasn't moved out, I think she has another place already. My son has described going to a new apartment where she bought a bed and some new furniture. She has not told me when she is moving out but I think it is soon since she's already cleared out some clothes in the house. She's taken down our nice curtains and put up something crappy ones that we had in the garage. She has told me before that when she leaves, I will miss her so much that I will beg her to come back. That may have been true before but not so much now. I probably wouldn't call her at all after she leaves unless it has something to do with my kids. Back to the woman that I mentioned on facebook, my wife's sister found out about it. I let her use my computer and she read the messages. She told my wife about it and now my wife has been crying. I'm really confused now. This is a woman that has cheated on me, accused me of being gay, and has absolutely no respect for me. I won't post everything again but in my previous thread, I posted a lot of disrespectful things that I've put up with over the years. I thought she would be happy to be leaving so she wouldn't have to put up with such a jealous and controlling husband (in her words).

So is this relationship with this other woman appropriate or not? Her sister says that I should stop talking to her immediately since I'm still married and living in the same house. Of course, her sister wants me to patch things up with my wife so her opinion might be skewed. My wife has not talked to me directly about this but she has told her sister that this relationship with this other woman proves that I don't love her or my kids. I'll also add that I would be possibly willing to patch things up with my wife if she comes off her high horse and does the things that I mentioned earlier. I'll also add that the more and more I get closer to this other woman, the less of a chance my wife has with patching up things with me. I'm so confused on this so advice would be appreciated.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Her sister could get bent. Wife withheld sex for years and had an affair? If all she gets is abandoned, she should consider herself very blessed. Might not be legally smart to get very chatty with another woman before the divorce. That could play into her lawyer's hands nicely. Morally, whatever you do to her is ok. She lost any reasonable expectation of loyalty or even decent treatment long ago. She's your enemy and she's spent years in that role. That's not your choice but her's.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Like it or not you are officially in an EA and a cheating husband - since you still profess love for your cheating wife - or is it STBXWW?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

chaos said:


> Like it or not you are officially in an EA and a cheating husband - since you still profess love for your cheating wife - or is it STBXWW?


"Cheating husband"? How do you figure? You can't steal someone's abandoned property. He's not telling any other woman anything his wife wants to hear. One can't commit adultery unless one has a spouse and he quite plainly doesn't and apparently hasn't for quite some time. He's got a piece of legal paper and a bed in the guest bedroom.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> "Cheating husband"? How do you figure? You can't steal someone's abandoned property. He's not telling any other woman anything his wife wants to hear. One can't commit adultery unless one has a spouse and he quite plainly doesn't and apparently hasn't for quite some time. He's got a piece of legal paper and a bed in the guest bedroom.


He's still married, still telling us that he still loves his cheating wife, and confiding personal issues to a woman, who has expressed strong attraction to him, a woman who is not his wife. That is called an emotional affair and it can be just as devastating as a physical affair.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Lawdawg

My sarcastic answer would be, she blames you for her affair, so blame her now. Tell your well to do sister in law that spying on your computer is a criminal offense. Then tell sister in law to never step foot on your property again. Tell your WW you are through. Tell her to leave so you can start your miserable journey of pining after her for the next three minutes. Just my sarcastic opinion. 

Seriously, decide what you want. If you want divorce, get it, if you want to be with her and blamed for everything, then say you are sorry. Good luck.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

chaos said:


> Like it or not you are officially in an EA and a cheating husband - since you still profess love for your cheating wife - or is it STBXWW?


Well I didn't mention it in the post but I mentioned it in the other thread. I will be retaining a lawyer and filing for divorce at the beginning of the year. I understand I may be in an EA and that I've said some things that a man in a healthy marriage shouldn't say. In regards to my own marriage it is over unless my wife changes her ways. Do you think that talking this other woman is a bad idea right now? Should I stop talking to her until I'm 100% sure about the divorce?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

lawdawg said:


> Do you think that talking this other woman is a bad idea right now? Should I stop talking to her until I'm 100% sure about the divorce?


Yes. Tell her that until your divorce becomes finalized, you can not talk to her. This you do as a sign of respect to you and to her.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

arezahorch said:


> Like it or not you are officially in an EA and a cheating husband


I originally didn't see things that way but maybe you are right. I'm not doing this to hurt her so if she doesn't like it, I will cut the relationship. Of course, I would then assume for her to try to save the marriage at that point.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Don't weaken your case by simply playing into your STBXW's attorney's hands, thereby providing him with ammunition against you. It'smuch easier for him to defend her position, when he can paint you as an adulterer in your own right. And while you might be innocently doing this, that lawyer, sureas hell, ain't exactly going to paint you that way!

Want to help yourself the most! Stay squeaky clean and above reproach! Al least until the gavel falls for the final time!


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> Don't weaken your case by simply playing into your STBXW's attorney's hands, thereby providing him with ammunition against you. It'smuch easier for him to defend her position, when he can paint you as an adulterer in your own right. And while you might be innocently doing this, that lawyer, sureas hell, ain't exactly going to paint you that way!
> 
> Want to help yourself the most! Stay squeaky clean and above reproach! Al least until the gavel falls for the final time!


That makes sense. I really had no idea that she could use something like this against me.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Hold up. A little logic is in order. She quit having sex with you years ago? She cheated on you and you happened to find out, she mumbled "sorry" and almost immediately denied that she really cheated, but if she did cheat, she's just being human. What part of this looks like someone worthy of affection or trust? Are you in love with what you have or with what you wish you had or what you used to have? If you chatting this other woman pisses your cheating, lying, sexless ol' lady off, you're going to stop? What? Be perfectly honest. If she fell off the face of the earth tomorrow, what, exactly, would you be losing? The joy of being sexually frustrated? The thrill of being cheated on? That warm feeling that comes from being lied to or blamed for your own abuse? The satisfaction of knowing you're paying 90% of the support for someone who's boinking some other guy but won't let you anywhere near her female parts? The euphoria of having your own wife call you "gay"? Her pride is too great? What reason does she have to be proud? She actually said that when she leaves you are going to miss her and beg her to come back (presumably to pick up the last tiny shards of what's left of your dignity). It sound like you have latched onto the queen of all narcissists. When you leave this evil she-person, it will feel like the weight of the entire world has been lifted from your shoulders. Whether this woman across the country turns out to be anything or not, she is absolutely right about your wife. If she isn't taking responsibility for her affair and she isn't making some Road to Damascus style transformation into finally being a decent human being to her husband, you need to cut the fraudulent person currently purporting to be your wife, loose. What tiny part of her is even trying to be your partner?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

chaos said:


> Yes. Tell her that until your divorce becomes finalized, you can not talk to her. This you do as a sign of respect to you and to her.


Yes. Better to suffer by yourself without any support. Really???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Hold up. A little logic is in order. She quit having sex with you years ago? She cheated on you and you happened to find out, she mumbled "sorry" and almost immediately denied that she really cheated, but if she did cheat, she's just being human. What part of this looks like someone worthy of affection or trust? Are you in love with what you have or with what you wish you had or what you used to have? If you chatting this other woman pisses your cheating, lying, sexless ol' lady off, you're going to stop? What? Be perfectly honest. If she fell off the face of the earth tomorrow, what, exactly, would you be losing? The joy of being sexually frustrated? The thrill of being cheated on? That warm feeling that comes from being lied to or blamed for your own abuse? The satisfaction of knowing you're paying 90% of the support for someone who's boinking some other guy but won't let you anywhere near her female parts? The euphoria of having your own wife call you "gay"? Her pride is too great? What reason does she have to be proud? She actually said that when she leaves you are going to miss her and beg her to come back (presumably to pick up the last tiny shards of what's left of your dignity). It sound like you have latched onto the queen of all narcissists. When you leave this evil she-person, it will feel like the weight of the entire world has been lifted from your shoulders. Whether this woman across the country turns out to be anything or not, she is absolutely right about your wife. If she isn't taking responsibility for her affair and she isn't making some Road to Damascus style transformation into finally being a decent human being to her husband, you need to cut the fraudulent person currently purporting to be your wife, loose. *What tiny part of her is even trying to be your partner?*


I don't know. Before, she seemed to get enjoyment out of seeing me mope around the house and look pitiful. She has been booming with confidence and getting all dressed up to go to work or out with friends and she knows it makes angry. Since I've started ignoring what she is doing, she seems to take offense to it like I am disrespecting her. I already asked her multiple times to try to fix things but she insists on separation or divorce. That's why I didn't think she would care whether or not I was talking to another woman while we are going through the separation. This is the 2nd time she's done this. The first time was after our final counseling appointment. At the appointment, she said she was moving out 1 week before Christmas (which didn't happen btw) and that she didn't want to make any more future appointments. After the session, she broke down crying like a baby. Now it's the same thing. She claims to not want me but was crying when she heard that I'm chatting with someone else.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You've got a narcissist. Everything must be about her. If she can use your little chat-mate as a tool to get sympathy in court, she will play the victim to perfection. Morally, I see nothing wrong with you chatting up someone else or doing whatever, but it's probably not a smart move for you at this point. I'd also quit talking to her sister. You obviously can't trust her. You let her get on your computer and she used the opportunity to spy on your private messages and rat them out to her evil sister. Maybe comes from a whole family of psychos. This other woman is an old friend, if she gets a few weeks older before you chat with her it won't hurt anything.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lawdawg said:


> Well I didn't mention it in the post but I mentioned it in the other thread. I will be retaining a lawyer and filing for divorce at the beginning of the year. I understand I may be in an EA and that I've said some things that a man in a healthy marriage shouldn't say. In regards to my own marriage it is over unless my wife changes her ways. Do you think that talking this other woman is a bad idea right now? Should I stop talking to her until I'm 100% sure about the divorce?


You are in an EA. But at this point I'm not sure it's a big issue. And EA's on Facebook are not legally an affair.

You will have to check your state law on how your state deals with infidelity during a divorce. In a few (very few) states, if you have a physical affair at anytime up to the date the affair is final, it can be used against you in the settlement. 

Oh, and your wife's affair will not count since you took her back after her affair.

What concerns me is that your wife has rented a place. She is taking things out of your home. She is about to leave with your children. You have no idea where this new place of hers is.

And all you really seem concerned about is if you are in an EA, on Facebook.

How is she paying for an apartment and buying furniture without your knowledge?

You need to find out where this apartment is. She can move and not tell you. Perhaps you could put a GPS device on her car and find out where she goes will help you locate the apartment? 

You also need to see an attorney ASAP to get a temporary order in place for child custody and time sharing before she moves out or immediately upon her moving out.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> You are in an EA. But at this point I'm not sure it's a big issue. And EA's on Facebook are not legally an affair.
> 
> You will have to check your state law on how your state deals with infidelity during a divorce. In a few (very few) states, if you have a physical affair at anytime up to the date the affair is final, it can be used against you in the settlement.
> 
> ...


On one hand, I care about where she goes but on the other hand, I do not care. My sons are way more attached to me than her. All these years, I've been the one taking them to the park, rodeo, zoo, etc... All the while, she was too busy texting to come along. Sadly, they would miss me much more than her since I spend much more quality time with them than she does. She knows this and that's why she's agreed to let them stay with me 3-4 days a week. As far as the money, I am pretty sure that it's her own. She makes a decent salary but always blew it on shoes, clothes, and bags. Now she has to use that money to actually take care of a family. I've asked my son about this apartment and so far, it only has a new bed as well as the curtains that were in my living room. I've already taken a TV off the wall and I sat it by the door so she can take it with her for the kids.

No matter what our agreement is, I am going to fight for joint custody just so I can protect myself. She could always get pissed off down the line and try to keep them from me so I need to protect myself in that regard.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old are your sons?


lawdawg said:


> On one hand, I care about where she goes but on the other hand, I do not care. My sons are way more attached to me than her.


I think that you did not understand me. I’m not talking about you caring where she goes in general. I’m talking about you knowing where she is going to be living with your sons. You need to know when your sons will be living.



lawdawg said:


> All these years, I've been the one taking them to the park, rodeo, zoo, etc... All the while, she was too busy texting to come along. Sadly, they would miss me much more than her since I spend much more quality time with them than she does. She knows this and that's why she's agreed to let them stay with me 3-4 days a week.


You need to know where your sons will be the 3-4 days a week that they will be with her. That’s my point. 
What people say before the lawyers gets involved in a divorce, very often changes after the lawyers get involved. Don’t be surprised if she reneges you having the kids 3-4 days a week. 



lawdawg said:


> As far as the money, I am pretty sure that it's her own. She makes a decent salary but always blew it on shoes, clothes, and bags. Now she has to use that money to actually take care of a family. I've asked my son about this apartment and so far, it only has a new bed as well as the curtains that were in my living room. I've already taken a TV off the wall and I sat it by the door so she can take it with her for the kids.


Is she spending nights away from home yet? Are the children staying with her in this apartment yet? 


lawdawg said:


> No matter what our agreement is, I am going to fight for joint custody just so I can protect myself. She could always get pissed off down the line and try to keep them from me so I need to protect myself in that regard.


That’s right.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Lawdawg, your story has many .similarities to mine. Years of sexless affectionless marriage, emotional and verbal abuse. Then the affair. Then me walking around for months like a pathetic lost puppy dog while my wife really hitting her stride. I get to the point of enough. She says let's work on it. Working on it does not go well as she blames me for her affair and emotional unhappiness that made it necessary. Then she insists over my steady objections on separation and ultimately divorce. I say fine. I don't like it, but it is not up to me and this process has been destroying me long enough. Time to restart life. Talk to some women. Nothing sexual but sometimes with that undercurrent. Get my tit in a wringer. This will be used against you and you will be vilified to some extent in the court of opinion. Primarily the opinion of your wife's closest friends and family. That happened to me. Total whipsaw. It was outrageous and ridiculous and backwards, but at that point it wasn't that important to me. I was tired of being kept in this dismal and pathetic emotional box. I think my wife liked seeing me trapped in there all the years. For those who say this is cheating, maybe, technically. But I doubt you understand how miserable this situation is. And to have lived it for years and years hoping for change or for the kids or both and finally realize that it only changes for the worse (e.g., going from years of harsh and barren marriage to suffering an affair and from their to threats of separation and divorce). Whether there is any legal ramification depends on the laws in your state, I suppose. Most states are no fault and it doesn't matter who has been unfaithful or why in the proceedings and outcome. The only consideration is custody rights. Don't do anything stupid to screw those up. I do not have an apology to offer for talking to other women or even for my two nights of fun during our two days of the divorce mediation process. Pretty much your situation. After checking with your lawyer on whether there may be any consequence in the divorce process, do what is best for your emotional health. Unapologetically. Just don't do anything stupid.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

And for those who may say just wait until the divorce is final, that process itself can go on for months, more than a year. And if you feel like you are getting jerked around in that process as you have in every other, you have to ask, when do I start my life again. Some may be OK with the wait. But this is not a wait of just a few months. This is an additional penalty period tacked onto several years of waiting. I said no to more time in the box.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I don't think she is worried. I doubt that she even cried. probably something her sister just made up. Even if it is true, her response seems to be more justification on why the marriage ended.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

The only issue I see with this other woman, (legal issue) is that this woman lives across a ways, it becomes an issue from a child custody issue, your wife will depend in the courts that her boys stay in state....will this woman move for you? And other legal issue does your state use adultery as a basis for divorce? Frankly speaking I would pull a 180 on your SIL as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lawdawg said:


> I don't know. Before, she seemed to get enjoyment out of seeing me mope around the house and look pitiful. She has been booming with confidence and getting all dressed up to go to work or out with friends and she knows it makes angry. Since I've started ignoring what she is doing, she seems to take offense to it like I am disrespecting her. I already asked her multiple times to try to fix things but she insists on separation or divorce. That's why I didn't think she would care whether or not I was talking to another woman while we are going through the separation. This is the 2nd time she's done this. The first time was after our final counseling appointment. At the appointment, she said she was moving out 1 week before Christmas (which didn't happen btw) and that she didn't want to make any more future appointments. After the session, she broke down crying like a baby. Now it's the same thing. She claims to not want me but was crying when she heard that I'm chatting with someone else.


So your xwtb can turn on the waterworks when she wants to? And... So? What does THAT prove, to be honest?

She fooled you and she fooled her family. 

But don't be her fool any longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't understand what decent woman would get involved with something like this, but I suppose they're out there.

Meaning a guy who's still married, not even separated (don't understand who dates "separated" people either, but that's another issue), and still professing to love his wife.

Who the $#%$ gets involved in that?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't understand what decent woman would get involved with something like this, but I suppose they're out there.
> 
> Meaning a guy who's still married, not even separated (don't understand who dates "separated" people either, but that's another issue), and still professing to love his wife.
> 
> Who the $#%$ gets involved in that?


Well, that is entirely their call, right? Maybe someone who is very secure in who they are and maybe someone who is not. For me it was all women who had been married and through divorce and I represented honestly that I had no interest in finding my soulmate or whatever, I just wanted to start the process of meeting people again. They can look out for themselves and the likes of Lawdawg and I can too.

All of that ended abrubtly soon after it started when my wife who was divorcing me went into tantrums over how can you do this and I was like we are getting divorced, what did you think would happen. And she explained that she only insisted on separation and then started the divorce process because she thought that was what was needed to save the marriage. Bring me back from the broken place she had left me. In any event, when she said she wanted to stay married I said OK let's do that. In my view, this is not about playing games. It is living life in a way you can respect yourself and others. I believe in the institution of marriage very strongly. But if it's over, its over. And there is no fault or shame in taking people at their word and deed when they say and act as if it is over.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Here is the thing, imho, you should divorce your wife no matter what. She has too many disfunction to be in a healthy relationship. Her world is self-centric, and it is all about what she wants. She wants to keep you as a provider while she goes out boinking other men for her own self ego and pleasure. She sees you as a weakling that she can use. She also been using your love for her to manipulate you. For most of the marriage she influence you to be a cuckold, while she got her needs met else where.

You may love her, but your love is on not who she is, but what you want to see her as. Even abusive people have their good traits. She did a number on your self-esteem. If she even came crawling back, I wouldn't take her back. those disfunctions would not just disappear over night, and would take years to even have a shot of her being somewhat stable. Plus, it is no guarantee. You could waste years of your life only to end up with the same product. Let her heal on her own, and hopefully she becomes functional enough later on where she will make a stable partner for someone.

I suggest you seek ic to help you deal with your nice guy syndrome. No matter what relationship you enter, the weaker boundaries you possess, will affect how the other will treat you. You may have a hand in helping your wife devolve further into the person she is. You spoiled her, and she turned out to be a spoiled child. With you, she did not grow as a person. In some ways, adults are no better than children. They still can be mentally programmed. Over time she lost respect for you, you kept enabling her bad behavior, and she kept enabling your nice guy syndrome because she would say something to give you hope, and thus your behavior continued for so long. You both brought out the worst in each other. You became a doormat, and she became a princess with a servant.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> Well, that is entirely their call, right? Maybe someone who is very secure in who they are and maybe someone who is not. For me it was all women who had been married and through divorce and I represented honestly that I had no interest in finding my soulmate or whatever, I just wanted to start the process of meeting people again. They can look out for themselves and the likes of Lawdawg and I can too.
> 
> All of that ended abrubtly soon after it started when my wife who was divorcing me went into tantrums over how can you do this and I was like we are getting divorced, what did you think would happen. And she explained that she only insisted on separation and then started the divorce process because she thought that was what was needed to save the marriage. Bring me back from the broken place she had left me. In any event, when she said she wanted to stay married I said OK let's do that. In my view, this is not about playing games. It is living life in a way you can respect yourself and others. I believe in the institution of marriage very strongly. But if it's over, its over. And there is no fault or shame in taking people at their word and deed when they say and act as if it is over.



Honesty is good. But people still wrapped up with ex drama are generally poor prospects and whoever they meet is likely going to be a rebound who has to put up with ex drama and divided loyalties. 

But you're right, it is their call.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You said your seeing a lawyer soon. If it were me, I would make sure that you have your finances separated because if she is as loose with a dollar like you claim, then sooner or later, she's going to need money and yours will spend as good as hers.

If I were you I would stop talking with your lady friend until your free and clear from your wife and then you can resume talking to her. 

I would also have your wife served when she's at work and starting today, just shut her off. The on;y conversation should be about the kids and nothing more.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> Is it wrong to talk to other women before I'm officially separated from my wife?


First off, your wife cheated on you. Sorry you are here because of her.

Secondly, there is no right or wrong with regards to your question.

I don't think its wrong to talk to other women before separation if you truly are going for divorce. Myself, I wouldn't engage in dating until the divorce was over actually.

As long as it is set in stone that you are divorcing, then talk to women. Have some self respect and do not stoop to your wife's level and take thing any further than conversing them, but get the ball rolling if you are looking forward to dating once the divorce is final.



> - Since then, she has shifted the blame to me and doesn't feel like she cheated.


As far as her thinking on the above quote, I'd tell her to go F herself.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Might not be legally smart to get very chatty with another woman before the divorce.


It won't make a difference. Just like, unfortunately, his wife's actual cheating won't make a difference in the divorce.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

LD,

My Advice... Divorce First, Period.

As far as Fault vs No-Fault, it is possible, but the courts are not Jerry Springer, it's going to cost regardless. 

------------------------------------------

From LegalZoom...

*All states offer some version of no-fault divorce.*

*17 states and the District of Columbia, you can only file for divorce on no-fault grounds;* the laws don’t give you the option of casting blame. These states, which include Wisconsin, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Nebraska, Montana, Missouri, Minnesota, Michigan, Kentucky, Kansas, Iowa, Indiana, Hawaii, Florida, Colorado and California, offer no traditional grounds, such as adultery, abandonment or cruelty.

*About two thirds of U.S. states still allow spouses to allege fault as the basis for a divorce.* In a fault divorce, one spouse may argue that the other spouse did something which caused the marriage to fail. Each state has a different set of fault grounds, but some of the most common grounds are:

*adultery*
abandonment
substance abuse, and
a felony conviction.

Courts may consider marital misconduct in one or more of the following ways.

Fault as a factor in granting a divorce. In fault states, spouses can still allege misconduct as the basis for their divorce.

Fault as a factor in dividing property. A court may consider either spouse’s bad behavior as a factor in dividing property. *For example, if one spouse wasted marital funds on an extramarital affair, the court may award a greater share of the marital property to the innocent spouse.
*
Fault as a factor in awarding alimony. Like the division of property, fault can also have an impact on alimony awards.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A miserable ending beats the hell out of misery without end.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Looking it from anorher angle, for better or worse lawdawg is still very emotionally invested in his cheating wife and until he no longet is, he should not lead another woman on by starting a relationship with her under such shaky circumstances.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

chaos said:


> Let's not be hypocritical gentlemen. Would you offer the same advise if the genders were reversed?


Absolutely. I'd tell a woman that it wouldn't be wrong to talk to other men if the end game is divorce. I'd still advise them, as I advised OP, that they should wait to start dating until after the divorce.

Whether a man or a woman, I couldn't look down on them if they decided to move on before the divorce is final, but I'd advise to not stoop to the cheating spouses level and wait until after the divorce. (provided that they end game is for sure heading for divorce)


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

chaos said:


> Looking it from anorher angle, for better or worse lawdawg is still very emotionally invested in his cheating wife and until he no longet is, he should not lead another woman on by starting a relationship with her under such shaky circumstances.


I completely agree.

In OPs case I think the other woman knows this and has told him to try to patch things up with his wife first, although for the kids. So I think this other woman is aware he is on the fence.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Advice is great. I have received much of the same. It's totally different if you have been living in this unending hell for years. His wife was not a companion to him. Yet she was good with another guy. He goes through hell. They try to work it out. She discovers it is hard and says separation, divorce! They start on those and she does some head fakes. I can tell you from experience that just sticking it out even to the end whatever that may be is no way of life. No life. It suits her. It is killing him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Honesty is good. But people still wrapped up with ex drama are generally poor prospects and whoever they meet is likely going to be a rebound who has to put up with ex drama and divided loyalties.
> 
> But you're right, it is their call.


Your point is a good one. Anyone who gets involved with a person who is still living with their spouse is not very smart. they are putting themselves at risk.

Most of the time it's just a rebound relationship. It's not wise at all to get into this. Rebound relationships can help a person get over their spouse more quickly. But they tend to be very hurtful to the person who is being used as the rebound.

But, as has been pointed out if she does not care to be used this way, it's her call.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Might not be legally smart to get very chatty with another woman before the divorce.





vellocet said:


> It won't make a difference. Just like, unfortunately, his wife's actual cheating won't make a difference in the divorce.


You are right, legally talking to someone is not an affair. Even cyber EA's and cyber sex are not affairs. It has to be sex in person for it be a considered an affair legally.

There are a few, very few, states where adultery does make a difference in divorce. And in these states, it's often considered adultery up until the judges signature is on the final divorce decree.

In these states, the only reason that his wife's adultery does not matter is that he took her back after her affair.

The OP needs to know the laws in his state and how they are applied in the local court system. There is info on the internet about how every state deals with adultery as the fault for a divorce and whether or not it's consider adultery if a spouses is involved with another person after the divorce is filed. He can have this conversation with his attorney as well. The attorney will know how the local judges handle these things.

I have little doubt that his wife would exploit any angle she can in a divorce from the way he describes her. He needs to be careful that he does not give her something she can user to further harm him.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Law, my concern is that you're just transferring co-dependent issues to this other woman.
JustsomedudeinNJ was in the same situ. He told everyone to just take a flyingF if they didn't like his dating. 
To me, he had issues emotionally separating, but he was strong enough to recognize, that his dating was just that, dating as Harken said.
You don't seem to be there yet. You are transferring emotional dependency, with no emotional and mental growth, and this can hurt you in the long run.
If this friend is so needy, that she is willing to gamble on you, you have to be sensible and ask yourself why.
Then again, she lives across the country, so she may just be having fun to pass the time. 
But you, are already getting feels man.
Talking to women as a lil pick me up,,, why the hell not, BUT,,, you don't seem to be there yet brother.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

You are supposed to pine away forever. Beg to have her back. It's quite a stunning development that someone else would want you. 

Take a page out of the cheater's script and say "we're just friends". 

The sexless marriage, was that her rejecting you? Did you keep a reasonable level of fitness, attractiveness, etc? If you did, she's a real Cluster B case, and you should eject and not look back. 

Divorce is a legality, if you are done, and have said so, you can start moving on. Just go slow and be honest.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Lawdawg, how many years of affectionless marriage? How many years since her affair began? How many years did you work on trying to recover from her affair? How long now in this purgatory of separation and divorce threats and really nothing changing? How long will that continue? People who say wait until you have a divorce decree before resuming your life have valid points. But it's armchair. Follow your legal advice and conscience and be good with that.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

Well I was friends with this woman for over 4 years now so whichever way things go, we'll most likely still be friends when things end. I will also admit that I have been using her as a shoulder to cry on but it has also felt good to have someone to talk to and keep me focused on life. She recently told me that she was attracted to me before but never pursued since I was taken. I was completely oblivious to that before and even if she did approach me before, I would have shut her down because I didn't want to ruin my marriage. Over the past few years, I've lost a ton of confidence. I've gained weight and I turned into a homebody that neglected his own needs for the sake of the family. What rubs me the wrong way is the way that my wife/ex-wife is twisting what is going on. Let's see.......

She gets to wear her wedding ring whenever she wants? Deal with it!

She creates a sexless environment and accuses me of being gay when I can't get it up? Deal with it!

She lists herself as single on facebook (by mistake of course =) ) and unfriends me even before I found out about the affair? Deal with it!

She's always too busy or tired to spend time with me, but complains that we don't spend time together? Deal with it!

She gets caught cheating and denies anything happened? Deal with it!

Oh and if anything did happen, it's because she's just human (in her own words). Deal with it!

So now, someone else is remotely interested in me and I'm the scum of the earth. The way I see things, she checked out of this marriage years ago. The only problem was that it took years for me to receive the memo. Even now, she has been stringing me along with the hopes that there is something there that is worth fighting for in our marriage. I feel like I'm the rabbit and she's pulling the string attached to the carrot. Yes I do still love her but I know what it takes for me to repair the marriage. I'm just not willing to do it. If I wanted to, I could catch a flight tomorrow to go see this woman and yet, I'm stuck here in limbo while she decides what she wants. 

If this comes off as an attempt for me to justify talking to this other woman, I'm sorry because that's not the case. I just feel like I've been living in hell and now when I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, it's a problem for her. I have no plans to move out to see this woman and in the end, it probably won't amount to anything. Still, the more and more we talk, the more I become detached from my wife. If anything, I'm starting to get the confidence I need to get back out there and move on with my life. That's something I couldn't do even a month ago. If she walked in this room right now and said that she was sorry for the affair and wanted to work on the marriage, that she will try to spend quality time with me and at least pay 40% of the bills, and that she would take all the necessary steps to regain my trust, I would drop this other woman in a flash. Is that asking too much from her? It's not like I'm asking her for a freaking blood diamond.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> Lawdawg, how many years of affectionless marriage? How many years since her affair began? How many years did you work on trying to recover from her affair? How long now in this purgatory of separation and divorce threats and really nothing changing? How long will that continue? People who say wait until you have a divorce decree before resuming your life have valid points. But it's armchair. Follow your legal advice and conscience and be good with that.


I would say the sexless marriage has lasted over 3 years. Back then, it was sex every 1-2 months. The lack of affection went back further than that. At least until 2010. The distraction was when my 2nd son was born (who is 3 btw). I thought that would be something to save the marriage but all it did was create a distraction from the real problems in the marriage.

As far as the affair, I've only known since September so it is fairly new. I will say though that the hints were there for years. Not wearing her ring to work, deleting suspicious texts before I saw them, taking certain calls out of the room, being unavailable to talk or reason, not spending time with me or the kids, spending an hour to get ready when going out with friends but taking 5 minutes to get ready when we go out, all the signs were there. Just every time I questioned her about it, I was imagining things or I'm acting jealous. I thought to myself, OK, maybe marriage is supposed to be like this. Maybe I'm being too needy and I need to back off and let her be happy. It was only this year that I opened my eyes to realize what was going on.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

lawdawg said:


> I would say the sexless marriage has lasted over 3 years. Back then, it was sex every 1-2 months. The lack of affection went back further than that. At least until 2010. The distraction was when my 2nd son was born (who is 3 btw). I thought that would be something to save the marriage but all it did was create a distraction from the real problems in the marriage.
> 
> As far as the affair, I've only known since September so it is fairly new. I will say though that the hints were there for years. Not wearing her ring to work, deleting suspicious texts before I saw them, taking certain calls out of the room, being unavailable to talk or reason, not spending time with me or the kids, spending an hour to get ready when going out with friends but taking 5 minutes to get ready when we go out, all the signs were there. Just every time I questioned her about it, I was imagining things or I'm acting jealous. I thought to myself, OK, maybe marriage is supposed to be like this. Maybe I'm being too needy and I need to back off and let her be happy. It was only this year that I opened my eyes to realize what was going on.


Well, the time frame is a bit more compressed and different than I had thought. If the marriage is over and you know it is over, file ASAP and then move on. Sounds like you are young. In light of this better understanding, I'd say yeah, knock it off with this other woman until there is some clarity in your direction.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

See a divorce attorney to protect your legal rights and assets. You noted that you are paying for 90% of your bills. See a psychiatrist as you said that you are depressed. It would help if your psychiatrist has a partner who is a clinical psychologist in his office. You have a very low self-esteem as demonstrated in your acceptance of bad treatment from your wife for such a long period of time.

As far as far-away friends, stay a friend if you must. Having a relationship by internet only is on the shaky side. She may not be the woman for you, physically nor emotionally. Don't start any relationship until you have cleared your head.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There are a few, very few, states where adultery does make a difference in divorce. And in these states, it's often considered adultery up until the judges signature is on the final divorce decree.


Unless I'm wrong, even then, it doesn't matter. As far as I know, it just would make a difference in how or how long the divorce is carried out.

Whats a judge going to do? Say, "Oh, since you cheated, you only get 30% of the marital assets" ?

Does it make a difference with custody in those states? I could only hope so.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Unless I'm wrong, even then, it doesn't matter. As far as I know, it just would make a difference in how or how long the divorce is carried out.
> 
> Whats a judge going to do? Say, "Oh, since you cheated, you only get 30% of the marital assets" ?
> 
> Does it make a difference with custody in those states? I could only hope so.


It generally makes a difference in whether alimony is at play and sometimes within custody battles (dependent upon how nasty the situation and the level of cheating, such as serial and put the kids at risk), but doesn't affect property division, unless one can prove that marital assets were used and abused in conducting the affair, in which case property can be divided unequally to compensate for such actions (but this is rare).


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> Well, the time frame is a bit more compressed and different than I had thought. If the marriage is over and you know it is over, file ASAP and then move on. Sounds like you are young. In light of this better understanding, I'd say yeah, knock it off with this other woman until there is some clarity in your direction.


Yes I'm only 31 and I'm 90% sure the marriage is over. Everything is in her hands at this point. With regards to the other woman, we'll remain friends only for now and nothing more. If she's waited this long, she can wait until I'm finally divorced and single. My wife has already moved a bunch of things around today. She took pictures off the wall and the majority of her clothes are gone. Looks like she'll be gone within a day or 2.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> It generally makes a difference in whether alimony is at play and sometimes within custody battles (dependent upon how nasty the situation and the level of cheating, such as serial and put the kids at risk), but doesn't affect property division, unless one can prove that marital assets were used and abused in conducting the affair, in which case property can be divided unequally to compensate for such actions (but this is rare).


I only wish Illinois was one of those states if what you say is true.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

lawdawg said:


> She gets to wear her wedding ring whenever she wants? Deal with it!
> 
> She creates a sexless environment and accuses me of being gay when I can't get it up? Deal with it!
> 
> ...



You are being gaslighted and she is trying to call all the shots in this marriage. 

There is no reasoning with a spouse like this.

My honest advice, move on to greener pastures. Get rid of this woman and let her "Deal with it".

There is a better life out there awaiting you. Don't delay it any further. Get all the information your attorney needs to him/her and let them get the ball rolling for you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It's not. There are only like 6-7 left that it makes a difference. I can tell you though, even in those states it really doesn't make a difference either. I am from one of those states and I would gladly give up some of those archaic laws and ideals in order to have a faster D persiod, instead of the mandatory 1 year separation before D can be granted. They state they do this as they are being pro family, but I can't understand how that is by requiring the people to live apart for that year. Is it the belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder???


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

To answer the original question. IT IS LEGALLY STUPID FOR YOU TO TALK TO OTHER WOMEN UNTIL you are separated. 

The spouse you thought you had no longer exists. Be wary that she could use what you want to do against you in court. 

Before you go jumping off on some new adventure, take the time to get yourself straight and don't worry about other women right now. Get through the process.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> To answer the original question. IT IS LEGALLY STUPID FOR YOU TO TALK TO OTHER WOMEN UNTIL you are separated.


It was a known fact around town, and my x-wife didn't deny her ****ting around to anyone, if anything she tried to excuse her behavior to drum up support friends.

Trust me, I discussed this with my lawyer and her cheating while married didn't make one iota's difference during the divorce. And especially didn't make a difference with custody since she is the mother.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

vellocet said:


> It was a known fact around town, and my x-wife didn't deny her ****ting around to anyone, if anything she tried to excuse her behavior to drum up support friends.
> 
> Trust me, I discussed this with my lawyer and her cheating while married didn't make one iota's difference during the divorce. And especially didn't make a difference with custody since she is the mother.


From my experience there seems to be a double standard for men/fathers and women/mothers in court at least in my state, Maryland.

It is my opinion that it is legally stupid for a man to get involved with a woman until separation papers are at least made.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> From my experience there seems to be a double standard for men/fathers and women/mothers in court at least in my state, Maryland.
> 
> It is my opinion that it is legally stupid for a man to get involved with a woman until separation papers are at least made.


:iagree: This seems to be the same situation in most states. Although when pointed out, everyone jumps on this and asks for proof of this "double standard". It is the same inmost states I have lived in (IL, WI, IN, NC, CA, KY, TN, SC, GA, and FL) so it doesn't seem to be an anomaly to me that others claim I am seeing.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> :iagree: This seems to be the same situation in most states. Although when pointed out, everyone jumps on this and asks for proof of this "double standard". It is the same inmost states I have lived in (IL, WI, IN, NC, CA, KY, TN, SC, GA, and FL) so it doesn't seem to be an anomaly to me that others claim I am seeing.


I think this is mostly right. The idea of infidelity, alienation of affection, or some other wrong that is not an otherwise actionable tort or crime having any bearing in divorce or custody is archaic. Just not the case. There may be good reasons not to engage in those activities or abuses, but fallout in divorce and custody are not among them except insofar as a court may have concerns about the fitness of the parent as a parent and consequent welfare of the children. But they don't care about who cheated and why. Nor should they.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> I think this is mostly right. The idea of infidelity, alienation of affection, or some other wrong that is not an otherwise actionable tort or crime having any bearing in divorce or custody is archaic. Just not the case. There may be good reasons not to engage in those activities or abuses, but fallout in divorce and custody are not among them *except insofar as a court may have concerns about the fitness of the parent as a parent and consequent welfare of the children. But they don't care about who cheated and why. Nor should they.*


Although I agree with this, all of the states I stated as having lived in, the bolded should be the standard, but in fact the men are always held to a different standard than the females and judged as such accordingly. Shouldn't be this way but it is in fact the norm.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Although I agree with this, all of the states I stated as having lived in, the bolded should be the standard, but in fact the men are always held to a different standard than the females and judged as such accordingly. Shouldn't be this way but it is in fact the norm.


He should talk to his lawyer. What I have seen is that the asset split is mostly formulaic by statute with a bit of haggling over whose is what. Alimony also is mostly by statute and formulaic. Custody I agree that especially with younger children there may be prejudice or default reaction in favor of mom as primary even in joint (and that may have child support consequences even if the time between is pretty much 50/50). And courts make mistakes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

vellocet said:


> Unless I'm wrong, even then, it doesn't matter. As far as I know, it just would make a difference in how or how long the divorce is carried out.
> 
> Whats a judge going to do? Say, "Oh, since you cheated, you only get 30% of the marital assets" ?
> 
> Does it make a difference with custody in those states? I could only hope so.


In some states, the other spouse can ask that the affair be taken into consideration. And yes it can lead to the one having an affair getting a lessor percentage of martial assets. 

If the one have an affair would normally receive alimony, it can lead to a judgment that the cheating spouse get no alimony.

And I can affect child custody.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

vellocet said:


> It was a known fact around town, and my x-wife didn't deny her ****ting around to anyone, if anything she tried to excuse her behavior to drum up support friends.
> 
> Trust me, I discussed this with my lawyer and her cheating while married didn't make one iota's difference during the divorce. And especially didn't make a difference with custody since she is the mother.


It depends on the laws in your state. 

For example in Maryland 

"Adultery may be a factor in determining the right to alimony (support that one spouse pays the other). It may be a factor in awarding custody of the children only if the court determines that the adulterous behavior had a detrimental (harmful) effect on the children. - See more at: http://www.peoples-law.org/grounds-absolute-divorce#sthash.SYx7X6iX.dpuf"

I know a guy who divorced based on adultery in Maryland. His wife was living with the OM when he filed for divorce. His exw got no alimony and he got 100% custody of the children.

In many states, waiting periods for divorce evaporate when there is adultery.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't understand what decent woman would get involved with something like this, but I suppose they're out there.
> 
> Meaning a guy who's still married, not even separated (don't understand who dates "separated" people either, but that's another issue), and still professing to love his wife.
> 
> Who the $#%$ gets involved in that?


Some decent person who has had their heart ripped out by a WS and who has enough fellowfeeling to be, like, there for someone?

I have done something similar in the past and I had no interest in the woman concerned, but she was a friend and she needed support. I, too, was single, then.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The closest thing to a "decent" woman in this whole story is whoever is on the other side of the country. The man is no more responsible for his own persecution than Jews were responsible for Auschwitz and he owes no more loyalty to that psycho bat than Jews owed Hitler.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> The closest thing to a "decent" woman in this whole story is whoever is on the other side of the country. The man is no more responsible for his own persecution than Jews were responsible for Auschwitz and he owes no more loyalty to that psycho bat than Jews owed Hitler.


I don't think anyone has suggested that the OP owes his stbx/WS any loyalty.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

lawdawg said:


> Yes I'm only 31 and I'm 90% sure the marriage is over. Everything is in her hands at this point. With regards to the other woman, we'll remain friends only for now and nothing more. If she's waited this long, she can wait until I'm finally divorced and single. My wife has already moved a bunch of things around today. She took pictures off the wall and the majority of her clothes are gone. Looks like she'll be gone within a day or 2.


 And that's a good thing that she'll be gone. The longer her things are in your house, the harder it is to detach and you need to start detaching now. 

Now hit her with the divirce papers at her job, and let everyone know about her affair, friends family, everyone because the woman has a bad habit of blaming everyone except herself and she's make you out like the rat in the wood pile and not blink an eye.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

In my opinion, in your particular case no.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Put the rest of her stuff in storage. Then change the locks after you carelessly lost your house keys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lawdawg said:


> I don't know. Before, she seemed to get enjoyment out of seeing me mope around the house and look pitiful. She has been booming with confidence and getting all dressed up to go to work or out with friends and she knows it makes angry. Since I've started ignoring what she is doing, she seems to take offense to it like I am disrespecting her. I already asked her multiple times to try to fix things but she insists on separation or divorce. That's why I didn't think she would care whether or not I was talking to another woman while we are going through the separation. This is the 2nd time she's done this. The first time was after our final counseling appointment. At the appointment, she said she was moving out 1 week before Christmas (which didn't happen btw) and that she didn't want to make any more future appointments. After the session, she broke down crying like a baby. Now it's the same thing. *She claims to not want me but was crying when she heard that I'm chatting with someone else.*


This would seem to indicate that, while she's happy keeping you on the hook as a solid "Plan B", she doesn't want you to be anyone else's "Plan A". She sees you detaching (and didn't think that you'd be able to do it), and she's panicking.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> This would seem to indicate that, while she's happy keeping you on the hook as a solid "Plan B", she doesn't want you to be anyone else's "Plan A". She sees you detaching (and didn't think that you'd be able to do it), and she's panicking.


Yes, Gus. As you'll know, it runs like this:-

WS: "My poor sap of a spouse is a perfectly splendid Plan b."

WS: "Wait! Wait! My formerly poor sap of a spouse is now looking happier than they have in ages! And... and... They have formed a new Plan a! And it isn't me!" 

Oops!:smthumbup:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lawdawg said:


> Yes I'm only 31 and I'm 90% sure the marriage is over. *Everything is in her hands at this point.* With regards to the other woman, we'll remain friends only for now and nothing more. If she's waited this long, she can wait until I'm finally divorced and single. My wife has already moved a bunch of things around today. She took pictures off the wall and the majority of her clothes are gone. Looks like she'll be gone within a day or 2.


Dude... ^this^ is where you're f*cking up. You need to take this decision out of her hands. It's *your* decision to make, *NOT* hers.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

And you know what...? If you've got young kids w/ a wife that's been up to this sh*t for years, you need a few of these...










... as in one for each of your kids.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> This would seem to indicate that, while she's happy keeping you on the hook as a solid "Plan B", she doesn't want you to be anyone else's "Plan A". She sees you detaching (and didn't think that you'd be able to do it), and she's panicking.


This is exactly what is going on with my BIL and SIL. He's spent months trying to nice her back but last June he had enough and started to detach and by early fall he was ready to file. Guess what? She moved back home! But nothing has changed. She's still her unremorseful, "nothing is my fault", self. She just couldn't stand the fact that he was ready to move on and god forbid, actually start dating again. That and she's a total control freak and probably doesn't want to give up controlling him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> This is exactly what is going on with my BIL and SIL. He's spent months trying to nice her back but last June he had enough and started to detach and by early fall he was ready to file. Guess what? She moved back home! But nothing has changed. She's still her unremorseful, "nothing is my fault", self. She just couldn't stand the fact that he was ready to move on and god forbid, actually start dating again. That and she's a total control freak and probably doesn't want to give up controlling him.


Ugh. This has to be one of the single most deplorable of all human behaviors.

I have a buddy/former co-worker that has caught his wife cheating a (at least) couple of times. I walked into his office to talk about something a few years ago and he was on the phone w/ her... calmly talking to her while he was printing out all of her e-mail correspondence w/ her (at the time) AP.

I just don't get it. That guy could have a new woman in about 10 seconds flat. And he had to show her that before she finally decided to cut out all the bullsh*t.


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## lawdawg (Nov 28, 2014)

I wasn't going to post back since the situation has changed but I figured I would update since the thread is still being bumped. She moved out on Dec 26th. I mentioned earlier that she had packed a few things but on the 26th, she had a moving truck show up along with one of her male friends while I was at work. It sucks because I thought we had a good Christmas along with the kids and I was stupid enough to get her a couple gifts that she didn't even deserve. She got me a sweater and some jeans and both are too small. It's like she just grabbed the first thing that she saw on the rack. Anyway, they took furniture, TVs, curtains, clothes, dishes, just a variety of things. I arrived home and thought I got robbed until I saw the closet and noticed that her side was cleared out. The neighbor saw the truck but didn't ask her anything since he knew she stayed her. I called 911 and they called back and said that they will not get involved since it's a civil matter and also community property. I just took pictures of everything and barely started cleaning up this morning since I've been so depressed. She didn't even want to tell me where she moved until I told her sister that I will report her for kidnapping. Within an hour, she was blowing up my phone trying to give me the address to where they are staying.

So now, I'm just playing it by ear. I changed the front door lock the same day but I forgot she had a key to get in the garage. She came back again on the 27th through the garage and took a few more things. I've moved my money from our joint account and I also got a new mailbox key. I also decided to call a few of our friends just to tell them what she did and about all the cheating. I only told 3 of them but the last one has a very big mouth so I'm sure word has gotten around to everybody by now. Since I know she will deny it, I've offered to meet with anyone that wants to see all of the evidence that I collected. After all this, I'm 100% sure that our marriage is done. She is the type that values her friends and reputation even over her marriage. She's left me a few threatening messages to stop telling everyone but I text her back and told her that it's time that everyone see's her for who she really is. She hasn't been back to the house for the past couple days and I won't be able to see a lawyer until the 5th.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lawdawg said:


> I wasn't going to post back since the situation has changed but I figured I would update since the thread is still being bumped. She moved out on Dec 26th. I mentioned earlier that she had packed a few things but on the 26th, she had a moving truck show up along with one of her male friends while I was at work. It sucks because I thought we had a good Christmas along with the kids and I was stupid enough to get her a couple gifts that she didn't even deserve. She got me a sweater and some jeans and both are too small. It's like she just grabbed the first thing that she saw on the rack. Anyway, they took furniture, TVs, curtains, clothes, dishes, just a variety of things. I arrived home and thought I got robbed until I saw the closet and noticed that her side was cleared out. The neighbor saw the truck but didn't ask her anything since he knew she stayed her. I called 911 and they called back and said that they will not get involved since it's a civil matter and also community property. I just took pictures of everything and barely started cleaning up this morning since I've been so depressed. She didn't even want to tell me where she moved until I told her sister that I will report her for kidnapping. Within an hour, she was blowing up my phone trying to give me the address to where they are staying.
> 
> So now, I'm just playing it by ear. I changed the front door lock the same day but I forgot she had a key to get in the garage. She came back again on the 27th through the garage and took a few more things. I've moved my money from our joint account and I also got a new mailbox key. I also decided to call a few of our friends just to tell them what she did and about all the cheating. I only told 3 of them but the last one has a very big mouth so I'm sure word has gotten around to everybody by now. Since I know she will deny it, I've offered to meet with anyone that wants to see all of the evidence that I collected. After all this, I'm 100% sure that our marriage is done. She is the type that values her friends and reputation even over her marriage. She's left me a few threatening messages to stop telling everyone but I text her back and told her that it's time that everyone see's her for who she really is. She hasn't been back to the house for the past couple days and I won't be able to see a lawyer until the 5th.


Well, she's given you your answer; it's time to file.

And it would probably be a good idea for you to knock it off w/ respect to any additional, unsolicited exposure. Make sure that family knows, but only so that they're aware of your current family/kid situation, and so she can't spin the narrative against you in such a way that it suits her needs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Make an inventory of everything she took and it's replacement value.

When you fill out the assets part of your divorce papers, add all of that in her column.

Let's say its $10,000. Then you get $10,000 more of assets to offset what she took. You can either ask for more cash or more of something else.

ETA: I did the above in my divorce from my son's father. It worked very well. He was pissed because the court did not even question the replacement value. So he got the old stuff and I had the money to buy all new


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

lawdawg said:


> She moved out on Dec 26th.


:toast:

:yay:

:smthumbup:

:corkysm60:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

just wanted to add one thing on this old thread.

You should have called the police and reported your children missing/kidnapped.

You had every right to.

And she would have learned a very valuable lesson "Don't *** with me".

I understand why you didn't.

But I have also learned that "Nice guys finish last".

Stop being nice. File.

Good Luck tomorrow with your attorney.

HM


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_this relationship with this other woman proves that I don't love her or my kids._

And you can say the same thing to your wife about her OM/affair. Your wife sounds like a hypocrite.


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