# Trying to help my wife regain her lost drive



## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

Hi guys, first post here and am glad I have found a place like this. I've been spinning my wheels searching the internet and reading every article I can on this, I wish I had thought of looking for a forum like this earlier. Anyway, so here's my issue.

First off, we have a 2 and a 3yr old, I work days and my wife stays at home with the kids and works p/t nights. My wife and I have sex 1-2 times a week usually. But the sex feels very 1 sided and not very satisfying mentally / emotionally. I always initiate, I am the only one engaging in any kind of foreplay (oral usually... when she lets me), and it's always quickies. This is an area that, thank god, she is not adverse to talking about and so thru many conversations, I have gleaned that sex is never on her mind and that many times when we do have sex, she is doing it just because she knows I need it. Of course, I love my wife even more knowing that she is being so selfless and getting it on just for my benefit but honestly, most the time it's about as satisfying as masturbation because there isn't any real engagement from her. I have a bit of a problem with not always lasting long enough for her to cum so, thinking that this might be a big part of the issue I asked her about letting me go down on her first. She has a hang up about being SUPER clean down there if I'm going to do anything like that, like I'm talking within an hour or so of showering, so that doesn't happen very often as you can imagine given our situation. I also brought up using a vibrator on her which we tried a couple of times with wonderful results. So the orgasm thing has a solution, or at least a couple of solutions that we can go for. Still, no change in her desire for sex. We've talked about it and talked about it, mostly with me finding things to try in articles, she says she's interested in trying them out but then nothing ever happens. It's always just the same. So what am I supposed to do here?

Part of me thinks I'm being an ass for wanting more from her when she already gives so much, but I can't help the feeling of not being fulfilled?. Am I right? Am I just being an unappreciative ass here and need to STFU? If not, what do I do? I'm afraid that I've talked to her about this so many times that I'm beginning to become a pest, which obviously will only make things worse. Part of me wants to just stop making advances at all and wait for her but damn, that's so hard to do. In reality it's not so much that I want MORE from her, I just want her to be as excited about sex with me as I am with her. I think if she was to regain that, everything would fall into place. Any suggestions?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> She's taking care of 2 toddlers (who came in close succession to each other), all day.
> 
> Then working PT at night.
> 
> ...


I once saw a cute little photo book called "Porn for Women." The picture that stands out was of a man in jeans and a t-shirt holding a toddler in one arm and pushing the vacuum in the other. While meant to be funny, like all good humor, there is a kernel of base truth at its core, and that was a very powerful image that was truly worth a thousand words. 

Yes, she's exhausted

Spawn, 
You probably have a higher energy level to begin with, and even though you are working full time, you are probably subject to less exhaustion overall. That's not a good combo. Add to that that you are inherently more motivated for/less deterred from sex, and you can see why you're where you are. 

Start by doing what you can to help her conserve her limited energy. But also remember to do it out of love, not just for some expectation of sexual favors in return. Both the action, and the meaning behind the action, are important to her. 

Still, there's no guarantees, so brace yourself. The best you can do is make an attempt, in a loving, supporting way. Then the chips fall where they fall.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> She's taking care of 2 toddlers (who came in close succession to each other), all day.
> 
> Then working PT at night.
> 
> ...


No, no way.. no more kids, lol. I got snipped and am extremely happy with my family. Her exhaustion level is something that I do add into the equation and quite frankly is part of why I've been able to remain as patient about it as I have been.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I once saw a cute little photo book called "Porn for Women." The picture that stands out was of a man in jeans and a t-shirt holding a toddler in one arm and pushing the vacuum in the other. While meant to be funny, like all good humor, there is a kernel of base truth at its core, and that was a very powerful image that was truly worth a thousand words.
> 
> Yes, she's exhausted
> 
> ...


She has told me that before, about it being extremely sexy seeing me with the kids. I'm very involved with them and I do quite a bit of the housework for her. I make sure the house is completely clean before she comes hone at night cuz I know she hates nothing else more in the world than to walk into a mess. It gets her anxiety up, so I do what I can to ease her day and I always do so not so much out of love as more of a, it's my job too, kind of stand point. So I have followed and whole heartedly agree with your suggestions. It's what a loving and supportive husband does right? But this is where I am having a hard time. I'm giving her everything that I know she needs and what she tells me she needs. I make a concerted effort to be present in the relationship for her and to engage with her. She tells me all the time how sexy I am to her and how in love with me she is, which I absolutely LOVE to hear from her, but it also frustrates me because if that's the case, if I am these things, why does she not attack me or at least seem interested in sex even just a little? That's where my understanding of things breaks down and I dont know how to proceed.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You should be taking the kids at least once a week and going somewhere with them, and leaving her alone in her own home, free to do whatever she wants, for at least 6 hours at a time. She needs time like that to feel like she's still a human being and not just a robot . 

You also should have a babysitter lined up for once a week, like clockwork. If she squawks about it, tell her it's your decision, not hers, that you love her and desire her as your wife, not just a mother, and you're being selfish, and you want your OWN time with her. Then take her out to dinner or a movie or go-karting or rock climbing or bowling or whatever...just date her at least once a week without kids or electronics.

Those are the two key ways to keep her interested in sex with you.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

spawn2031 said:


> No, no way.. no more kids, lol. I got snipped and am extremely happy with my family. Her exhaustion level is something that I do add into the equation and quite frankly is part of why I've been able to remain as patient about it as I have been.
> 
> 
> 
> She has told me that before, about it being extremely sexy seeing me with the kids. I'm very involved with them and I do quite a bit of the housework for her. I make sure the house is completely clean before she comes hone at night cuz I know she hates nothing else more in the world than to walk into a mess. It gets her anxiety up, so I do what I can to ease her day and I always do so not so much out of love as more of a, it's my job too, kind of stand point. So I have followed and whole heartedly agree with your suggestions. It's what a loving and supportive husband does right? But this is where I am having a hard time. I'm giving her everything that I know she needs and what she tells me she needs. I make a concerted effort to be present in the relationship for her and to engage with her. She tells me all the time how sexy I am to her and how in love with me she is, which I absolutely LOVE to hear from her, but it also frustrates me because if that's the case, if I am these things, why does she not attack me or at least seem interested in sex even just a little? That's where my understanding of things breaks down and I dont know how to proceed.


That's good to hear (the you're doing what you can part). I understand and feel your pain. Been there and done that with much the same result. Sorry I have no better strategy to report. For us, it did get a little better as the kids got older. Things should ease up a bit once they're both in school, which I know does nothing for you now. 

It also sounds like she's putting some of the libido-killing stress on herself. The OCDish behavior about cleanliness of both person and house is exhausting pressure that need not be there. Is she a serious type A? It might be worth letting her know it's okay to relax a bit--that it's not the end of the world if a pot sits unwashed in the sink overnight or the end table doesn't get dusted today. I suspect you may have already done that? In any case, once my wife decided the dust and the dishes would still be there tomorrow, that helped a bit as well. She doesn't have to be Annette Benning in 'American Beauty', and I'm sure she doesn't want to turn you into Kevin Spacey in the same!


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## Tyvinjoot (Jul 13, 2017)

I am so lucky that my wife sex drive is still on the run. we have 2 kids a 4 years old and 3 years old. I admit that I'm losing this drive and I am happy that my wife has a burning desire for sex. I am so busy with my errands at work and some activities at home I always update on social media and get to reply to my emails. I have so little room when it comes to bed times with my wife. Sometimes she understands me but there are times that the patient of waiting turns into hatred, so before the fire get wide I have to splash it with water to set it cool.
But every time we do sex intercourse I always make sure that she really gets to her climax.

To be honest we only have sex once or twice a month sometimes nothing.
Thankful that she's not looking for another guy with full of sex drive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@spawn2031

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you, doing things where you concentrate on each other--quality time?


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## InspiralImplode (Jun 13, 2017)

I wonder if she has told you exactly what she's missing or exactly what she wants or wishes for ... I hope you were listening?!


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's good to hear (the you're doing what you can part). I understand and feel your pain....


I'm not sure about the Type A thing but she is OCD and is on meds for it. Of course the meds dont control it 100% so the best that I can do with those issues is try to talk to her about them and get her to ease up on them but the OCD issues are irrational and caused by something that she can't really control. So it's not all that realistic for me to expect logical thinking to counter them. 



EleGirl said:


> @spawn2031
> 
> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you, doing things where you concentrate on each other--quality time?


Typically it's 2-3 nights a week she's home from work. It varies, like this week she's been home all week. The kid's go down at 7 and we are together talking, playing games, etc.. for a couple of hours each night. I read once that stay at home Moms really need adult interaction to offset all the toddler banter they get all day long so I try to do that for her as much as I can. As much as I would like to get her out of the house more often and give her a complete change of scenery, where we are at has proven VERY difficult to find a reliable baby sitter and we have no family around us. So we do the best we can with what we have for that. Other than that we can typically expect to get and do something really nice once a month as that's about the most we can expect out of the one sitter we have found. 



InspiralImplode said:


> I wonder if she has told you exactly what she's missing or exactly what she wants or wishes for ... I hope you were listening?!


I wasn't at first. Like I said in my initial post, I thank God for the fact that neither one of us are adverse to talking about this subject. At first, I felt hurt and dejected. My ego was hurt and I was taking it all very personally. Since then I can say with a large degree of certainty that I have been listening and absorbing what she has been telling me. For instance, I know (now) that my wife gets her feeling of completeness within the relationship from talking and just being with me, with me being present, which I wasn't doing for a while. I was coming in from work, doing whatever stuff needed to be done around the house to help with the kids and then once they were down I was immediately turning towards my hobbies and stuff that relax me instead of taking time to engage with her. I have made a concerted effort to change that and have had a great amount of success with it. For the past 4 months she has been noticeably happier and tells me that she feels fulfilled now. But still, she (by her own admission) never thinks about sex. When the day is done, she does much of what I used to do. She turns to the things that relax her ALL the time instead of doing for me the very same thing she asked me to do. I know she's exhausted as many others have mentioned before and I also keep telling myself and she needs that time to unwind and relax from her day, which is why I dont scoff at her when she does. I give her her time. But I think the real problem is that sex never even comes up in her mind. So, when she does get time to relax, sex is literally the last thing comes to her mind.

The more I read your guys' responses and the more I type the more it's easy to convince myself that all of this is just her exhaustion and I need to just suck it up and deal with it until things change and she's not so exhausted but then I get stuck on the fact that she NEVER thinks about sex. She doesn't even pleasure herself anymore. I understand being tired an exhausted, but never? That, to me, screams that there is a problem somewhere.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

spawn2031 said:


> The more I read your guys' responses and the more I type the more it's easy to convince myself that all of this is just her exhaustion and I need to just suck it up and deal with it until things change and she's not so exhausted but then I get stuck on the fact that she NEVER thinks about sex. She doesn't even pleasure herself anymore. I understand being tired an exhausted, but never? That, to me, screams that there is a problem somewhere.


Yeah, the problem is exhaustion and being in either "mommy mode", "employee mode", or "wife/housekeeper mode". Not only is she too tired for her body to want sex, she probably doesn't think about sex much, if at all. She doesn't masturbate because she feels no need to.

Exhaustion that will hopefully ease once the kids are a bit older and more independent, yes, but be careful of getting into a no sex or low sex routine. A couple years of no sex/low sex and it becomes a habit hard to break even once the exhaustion isn't a factor. I suggest keeping up with whatever help you've been giving with the house and kids and keep up or even increase the amount of time you spend together without the kids after bedtime. Make sure there is touching...plenty of touching. Touching releases some of the same bonding hormones sex does, so if there isn't going to be much sex frequent touch is necessary to keep the two of you bonded.

I feel you on the babysitter issue. When our kids were young, DH and I went almost a year at a stretch without being able to find a sitter. My siblings lived over an hour away, my father was disabled, my mother deceased, and all my friends were neck deep with their own kids and didn't want to take on 3 more. The couple of friends who would have watched my kids couldn't due to their spouses schedule (worked odd shifts at dangerous jobs and needed sleep to be sharp). We had a LOT of "basement dates" where we'd get take out, put the kids to bed, shut ourselves in the basement, have some wine or a mixed drink, watch some stand-up comedy, a movie, or favorite educational shows, talk, make out, and have sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mother Nature wants women to produce offspring and that is why she gave women sex drives.

However she also wants the offspring that have been born to survive and for them to survive the first several years of their life, they need a mother to raise and feed and take care if them 24/7 until they reach the development to feed and clothe and go to the bathroom on their own.

To do that Mother Nature shuts down their sex drives for a couple years to allow the existing offspring to develop. 

You did good by getting snipped.

The best thing you can do now is be supportive and not make her mad for a couple years until her libido returns.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

For certain exhaustion isn't your friend. 

But - OCD - that puts this situation in a whole different light. Much greater chance that sex becomes an uphill battle in an OCD context. 

And ummm - your desire to hear a certain type of message might be making your situation worse. Your wife has learned that using the word sex/sexy gets her what she wants. She tells you something is sexy - when she wants it. 

But it isn't honest and the blatant manipulation harms her respect for you and hurts your marriage. To be fair, I think she is telling you a half truth, but it's a painful one. What she likely means is that the absence of certain things is a turn OFF. But their presence isn't really a turn on. 




spawn2031 said:


> I'm not sure about the Type A thing but she is OCD and is on meds for it. Of course the meds dont control it 100% so the best that I can do with those issues is try to talk to her about them and get her to ease up on them but the OCD issues are irrational and caused by something that she can't really control. So it's not all that realistic for me to expect logical thinking to counter them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> For certain exhaustion isn't your friend.
> 
> But - OCD - that puts this situation in a whole different light. Much greater chance that sex becomes an uphill battle in an OCD context.
> 
> ...


I follow you with the OCD warning but I'm not following you on the rest of what you are saying. She doesn't use the word sex or sexy as a buzz word to get things from me. In fact she asks for things for herself very rarely if ever, it's actually kind of a problem with her. I sometimes have to force her to go get something she wants or even needs sometimes because she'd rather spend extra cash we have on the kids or even me before herself. So unless I am missing something that you are seeing, and if I am please explain, I dont think I'm being manipulated with sex.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Spawn,

I think I just misinterpreted the paragraph below. No harm intended. 

Does it help her - if you both shower right before sex? Doesn't matter if you shower together - just both getting in bed right out of showering. 

Do you ever wrestle with her? Are you in good shape in terms of fitness?




She has told me that before, about it being extremely sexy seeing me with the kids. I'm very involved with them and I do quite a bit of the housework for her. I make sure the house is completely clean before she comes hone at night cuz I know she hates nothing else more in the world than to walk into a mess. It gets her anxiety up, so I do what I can to ease her day and I always do so not so much out of love as more of a, it's my job too, kind of stand point. So I have followed and whole heartedly agree with your suggestions. It's what a loving and supportive husband does right? But this is where I am having a hard time. I'm giving her everything that I know she needs and what she tells me she needs. I make a concerted effort to be present in the relationship for her and to engage with her. She tells me all the time how sexy I am to her and how in love with me she is, which I absolutely LOVE to hear from her, but it also frustrates me because if that's the case, if I am these things, why does she not attack me or at least seem interested in sex even just a little? That's where my understanding of things breaks down and I dont know how to proceed.







spawn2031 said:


> I follow you with the OCD warning but I'm not following you on the rest of what you are saying. She doesn't use the word sex or sexy as a buzz word to get things from me. In fact she asks for things for herself very rarely if ever, it's actually kind of a problem with her. I sometimes have to force her to go get something she wants or even needs sometimes because she'd rather spend extra cash we have on the kids or even me before herself. So unless I am missing something that you are seeing, and if I am please explain, I dont think I'm being manipulated with sex.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Spawn,
> 
> I think I just misinterpreted the paragraph below. No harm intended.
> 
> ...



No worries, no offense taken. We have not tried showering right before sex, I'll have to bring that one up. I see where you're going with that and I have though the same thing. If she has an issue with her cleanliness due to her OCD, maybe that translates to me too. I've asked her that and she says no but it would make sense. We like showering together but she is a bigger girl and it can get kind of awkward in the shower cuz the shower isn't all that large. We're in the process of buying the house so we can do something about that soon. Wrestling with her... no, I can't say that has ever even remotely entered my mind. I'm in decent shape yeah, we are both working on losing some weight and getting in better shape atm.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> The more I read your guys' responses and the more I type the more it's easy to convince myself that all of this is just her exhaustion and I need to just suck it up and deal with it until things change and she's not so exhausted but then I get stuck on the fact that she NEVER thinks about sex. She doesn't even pleasure herself anymore. I understand being tired an exhausted, but never? That, to me, screams that there is a problem somewhere.


Women don't typically NEED sex the way men do. Their body doesn't drive them to get it the way yours does. They don't typically grow up fantasizing about getting it, scoring, etc. So try to remember that YOUR drive is completely different from hers. Women typically have a drive when they are FOCUSED on that one man in their life and they want to get the payback from the tenderness, intimacy, etc. 

But with two babies/toddlers, it's nearly impossible for her to be able to focus on just you. And one important thing to remember: once a woman has babies, she never 'turns off' being that mother. Even in bed, her ears are listening for a baby crying. She never gets to just be HER again; like any momma of any species, she's always on the alert to take care of things. That's why I suggested taking the kids and letting her have down time. So she can recharge.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

spawn2031 said:


> I'm not sure about the Type A thing but *she is OCD and is on meds for it*. Of course the meds dont control it 100% so the best that I can do with those issues is try to talk to her about them and get her to ease up on them but the OCD issues are irrational and caused by something that she can't really control. So it's not all that realistic for me to expect logical thinking to counter them.


What meds does she take? Most medications for these sorts of issues absolutely murder the libido.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spawn2031 said:


> Typically it's 2-3 nights a week she's home from work. It varies, like this week she's been home all week. The kid's go down at 7 and we are together talking, playing games, etc.. for a couple of hours each night. I read once that stay at home Moms really need adult interaction to offset all the toddler banter they get all day long so I try to do that for her as much as I can. As much as I would like to get her out of the house more often and give her a complete change of scenery, where we are at has proven VERY difficult to find a reliable baby sitter and we have no family around us. So we do the best we can with what we have for that. Other than that we can typically expect to get and do something really nice once a month as that's about the most we can expect out of the one sitter we have found.


So that 2-3 nights a week and about 2 hours a night? So 4 to 6 hours a week? What do you do in those 4 to 6 hours a week?

What about your weekends?

This is about what I expected you would answer. It's a major contributor to your problems. A couple needs spend at least 15 hours a week together, doing date-like things (quality time) in order to maintain the passion in a relationship. If they do not spend this time, they get what you have. Most women need the non-sexual intimacy before desire sexual intimacy. I'm not surprised at all that your wife has lost her sex drive.

Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Have her read them with you and the two of you do the work suggest together. You need to restructure your life so that you two can spend at least 15 hours a week together. To fix this, you will need to spend more than 15 hours a week to start with. The book will explain this.

Now how do you get 15 hours to spend together? 

You say that it's hard to find a reliable baby sitter. It might be hard, but I'll bet it's no impossible. Start looking.

What we did often when we had children at home was to hire a high school girl to watch our children while we were at home. That way she was not left alone with our children. Then we would have an at-home date. We made snacks/desert, had wine -- set up a small table with chairs in our room. Put on some good music and would go to our bedroom for a date. We danced, talked, played games (some of them sex games - look on amazon). We just had fun.

After we got to know the high school girl better and learned to trust her, we started going for romantic walks and picnics for an hour or so.

If you really want to fix this, you will find ways to sneak in time alone with your wife.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

spawn2031 said:


> Any suggestions?


Desire needs distance. So if you want your wife to want it, you can't give it to her before she is ready. 

Imagine you just got done changing the belt on your riding lawn mower, and as you step into the house to cool off and grab a drink you wife says, "OK honey, I'm going to give you an orgasm right now" and you oblige by allowing her to do it and you manage to enjoy it somewhat. Hypothetically if that were to happen very regularly, you would never build any desire because your wife would essentially be taking care of your orgasmic urges preemptively. Your orgasms might even be rather bland and only semi-enjoyable if they happened in this fashion. You probably enjoy them the most after you have been wanting one, and thinking about it for a while. 

So when you are in the mood for sex, NEVER feel compelled to wait for your wife to have an orgasm every time. Only do that when she says she wants one and/or enjoys having one. Otherwise allow for it to be a one-sided experience where she just enjoys making you happy. That in and of itself will generally spark some desire and she will either want some attention during the moment, shortly after, or it may have her enjoying thinking about it for the next day. The important thing is that she really needs to enjoy wanting an orgasm as opposed to you preemptively just giving her one during a moment which likely seems rather arbitrary to her, as her desire will not run on the same schedule as yours! 

Talk to her about this! It will likely become an eye opener.

Some women may receive the majority of their sexual pleasure simply from knowing how much they can make their man happy. If this is the case, she will enjoy compliments as she pleases you. That in turn will build her confidence and lead to her enjoying things more!

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You could also look into setting up a babysitting co-op, in which 2 or 4 families agree to 'share' babysitting. If you have 4 families, each family takes on the other 3 families' kids at their house, one night (or afternoon) each weekend. And you just rotate around. Once a month, you're babysitting for a few hours, but you get date nights out of it.

And if you say your wife has no friends, that's a whole OTHER problem that needs to be fixed.


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## kenyaone (Jan 26, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> @spawn2031
> 
> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you, doing things where you concentrate on each other--quality time?


Good question as this would determine quality time you spend together per week. This may determine your intimacy levels.

Sent from my TECNO-H3 using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

badsanta said:


> Desire needs distance. So if you want your wife to want it, you can't give it to her before she is ready.
> 
> Imagine you just got done changing the belt on your riding lawn mower, and as you step into the house to cool off and grab a drink you wife says, "OK honey, I'm going to give you an orgasm right now" and you oblige by allowing her to do it and you manage to enjoy it somewhat. Hypothetically if that were to happen very regularly, you would never build any desire because your wife would essentially be taking care of your orgasmic urges preemptively. Your orgasms might even be rather bland and only semi-enjoyable if they happened in this fashion. You probably enjoy them the most after you have been wanting one, and thinking about it for a while.
> 
> ...


Um, this is very strange advice.

The OP spends 4-6 hours a week with his wife. They have virtually no non-sexual intimate relationship. I don't now why a woman would want sex with a husband who spent that little time with her. There is already plenty of distance I this relationship.

Women are different than men when it comes to what drives our sexual desire. The more orgasms women have, the more a woman wants. So him looking at sex as mainly a way to get his needs met and ignoring hers is only going to further make her not want sex.

While it is true that women get pleasure out of pleasing their partner sexually, when that becomes the major focus of their sex life she will be turned off. It turns him into a selfish lover and no woman enjoys pleasing a selfish lover. It will kill her desire for sex with him.

*She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman* by Ian Kerner


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> where she just enjoys making you happy


Hahaha, yeah, between all the diapers and the vomit and the floor mopping and the dusting and the crying kids getting up 2 or 3 times a night to soothe a kid and the doctor visits and the meals made and the baths and the reading a book to the kids at bedtime and working the night shifts and the ONE date a month...I'll bet giving him a BJ is just on the top of her list.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

This could've been written by me, it's scary! 

My wife's sex drive TANKED after our daughter (2nd, and last) was born. Daughter just turned 4. We have sex 1-2 times a week, and mostly it's what I would call duty sex. I have expressed my frustration with this. She claims that I watch too much porn and have an unrealistic vision of how sex should be. But I don't see it that way; I just want a semblance of what our sex life used to be before kids. Where sex would just HAPPEN because we were both horny for each other, not because we scheduled it, or because it's been a proper amount of time since the last time, and it's time to throw me one. Where she was just as into it as I was. There was no HD/LD, we were just 2 people in love going at it almost every night. I realize that it can't be as hot and heavy as it is in the beginning... that's not sustainable. I just wish the times that we were intimate actually felt intimate, and not just her providing for my needs.

I am an attentive husband and father, the same as you seem to be. There is literally nothing I wouldn't do to help my wife out and ease her load. I help around the house, help with the kids, try to give her quality family time, quality alone time, quality time just the two of us. I am all for her having a social life, and I wish she would make more time for herself honestly. I don't believe my wife is cheating. I'm not naive, I have looked into it, and if she cheating is then it has to be VERY underground. She is just NOT a sexual person. Like, it's never on her mind AT ALL. She claims she hasn't masturbated in years, and I believe her. Even things like dirty jokes seem to offend her. It's like sexuality as a concept in general is just something that is beneath her. 

I don't really have much advise to offer, as I am in the same boat. I honestly think we have a good marriage... I also honestly believe my wife's sex drive will never come back. I could never cheat, but sometimes the idea of being with a woman who exudes sexuality and actually reciprocates my desire does sound very nice.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> Hahaha, yeah, between all the diapers and the vomit and the floor mopping and the dusting and the crying kids getting up 2 or 3 times a night to soothe a kid and the doctor visits and the meals made and the baths and the reading a book to the kids at bedtime and working the night shifts and the ONE date a month...I'll bet giving him a BJ is just on the top of her list.



So true!


Little ones require the kind of energy that ER doctors have to give. But unlike ER doctors, the SAHM of little ones is constantly touching and being touched. So much so that her need for and desire for more touching is wholly absent. She has very very little left to give and it will stay that way until the kids are in school full time. Until then, you are going to have to grow very comfortable with being the initiator and driver of the sex bus. 

What's great is that you two are talking, hearing, understanding and keeping this issue from being acrimonious. How she feels, being touched out and not having a drive for sex, is out of her control for the most part. There are some things she could be doing but those things won't directly affect her sex drive, just make the ground a touch more fertile should the cycle peak and push a temporary libido.

Here's the really tough part for young fathers with SAH wives, the more "needy" you are, for sex, for her attention, for her validation, for her to care for you, the less likely it will happen.

Like @EleGirl has said, spend 15 hours per week alone with your wife, no TV, no internet, no electronics. You'll be lucky to get 8 with little ones and no babysitter. 

Like @MEM2020 has said, make some of your time together physically active, playful and slightly dangerous. Play wrestling and pillow fights are fun, but also put your physical strength at the forefront. You could easily take her down, and she knows it and that creates the danger element. An unexpected surprised attack, once this physicality is established raises the heart beat, fear then morphs into a feeling safety, physical touching goes from playful to sexual. 

Do your part helping with the kids. Don't rely on her to tell you what needs to be done. Don't treat her like she is the executive manager of the home and child care. Having to explain to a husband what needs to be done turns her from your wife to your mother and no one wants to have sex with the kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's the bottom line. Women do NOT have the physical drive you have. They have to be happy with their life to be able to think about sex. It's simple biology. Goes back to caveman days, to keep the species going. Men screw and women nurture. Once the kids come, men have to become creative to keep the women still focused. That involves dates, flirting, sexiness, seduction, playfulness, surprises, sweeping her off her feet, and more.

Sorry, but that's just the way our biology works. You have to overcompensate for the mothering.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree with others that she could just be simply tired, so maybe once per month, can you both get a babysitter, and just spend time together just you two, and make things spontaneous...like in the car...or getting each other hot while driving somewhere. It could happen. Anything can happen if you both want it badly enough.  

This might add some more spontaneity back into your relationship, but my mom tells me that when I have kids, things shift a little in marriage. Couples go from their relationship being the main focus, to now the kids are. But, she tells me to always make sure that we make time for each other, alone. Even if it's half hour at night, to talk in bed, etc. She has told me it's easy to get lost in the details of life, and then your marriage is like two roommates who raise kids together. I think that if you both can communicate about it, that's great.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The spontaneity is the key.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

podiumboy said:


> I realize that it can't be as hot and heavy as it is in the beginning... that's not sustainable. I just wish the times that we were intimate actually felt intimate, and not just her providing for my needs.
> 
> {snip}....She is just NOT a sexual person. Like, it's never on her mind AT ALL. She claims she hasn't masturbated in years, and I believe her.


You want your wife to respond to you the way she used to, but you also want that response to be genuine. This is impossible. Knowing full well that her sex drive is no longer what it used to be, you can either choose to have a wife who genuinely enjoys having 'duty' sex with you or you can choose to have a wife that fakes her actual desire or enjoyment of the act in order to please you. The one thing you cannot do is change _her_. She is who she is now, not who she was 5 years ago. 



> I don't really have much advise to offer, as I am in the same boat. I honestly think we have a good marriage... I also honestly believe my wife's sex drive will never come back. *I could never cheat, but sometimes the idea of being with a woman who exudes sexuality and actually reciprocates my desire does sound very nice*.


Take her as she is or leave her but definitely stop fantasizing about what coulda, shoulda been. That way breeds resentment.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Women are different than men when it comes to what drives our sexual desire. The more orgasms women have, the more a woman wants. So him looking at sex as mainly a way to get his needs met and ignoring hers is only going to further make her not want sex.


I agree my advice is probably not suited for everyone, but do please remember that everyone's sexuality is different. 

I have read many accounts of women that only seem to have so much of an appetite to enjoy sex. If they are pushed to enjoy it more than their personality/sexuality/emotions can tolerate, then more and more orgasms will make some people never want sex again. It is all about balance. 

Some men are "too eager" to please their wives. If a wife has lost her drive, then odds are the husband needs to take a step back and not be so eager and focus more on "sharing" what makes him happy with his wife.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Some women do like pleasing for the sake of pleasing him. 
These women have their own needs met, are happy and will offer the situation (I'm just not feeling in the mood tonight babe but how about a bj?) 

A man should not ask for or assume that no O sex is ok with her unless specifically told so and that only includes that session. 

It is a turn off to have sex with a man who clearly knows you aren't enjoying yourself. The more times he does it, the more she feels like a blow up doll and the less sexy she feels. Drive dies more because all you want is sex and don't care if she likes it or not. 

Assume that if you want to enjoy it, she does too. She just may not feel she has the time or energy or love feelings for you enough (cause of no alone time and dates) to get there. Fix the cause of those and more chances to get a woman enjoying sex and then she feels like a sexy woman and her drives goes up. 

Less attention + more times using sex as a way to just get off is just going to build the wall of resentment higher.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

It's always the man's fault that the wife has no sex drive. He's not doing it right. He's only using sex as a means for himself to get off. He's not cleaning the house good enough, or helping with the kids enough, or taking his wife on dates enough. Sometimes, she just plain does not want to have sex. At all. 

My wife cannot be "put in the mood". She cannot be seduced, or aroused... at least not by me. Maybe if she were to have an affair, she'd suddenly find her sex drive again... but that's a rabbit hole that doesn't need to be gone down. I am a nice man, I love my wife. I'm not a perfect husband, but I do my damned best every single day. And other than romance/sex, we have a very good marriage. I'd say we're best friends. My wife likes to connect through deep, intellectually stimulating conversation. She really isn't into physical intimacy of any kind, really. Holding hands, long kissing, touching her leg while we're sitting together... she doesn't like it. She used to be... a lot. She used to wear me out, sexually. But now we have 2 young kids, 6 and 4. We both work a lot, etc, etc, etc, busy, blah, blah. 

I would love to be able to do whatever was necessary to pleasure my wife sexually. She simply doesn't want it. She says she wants to want to have sex, but can't. We've been having this battle for about 2 years. Finally, I came to a decision; this issue was really harming our marriage. One way or another, we NEED to be on the same page about this. And since she's the woman and the one with the low drive, she more or less gets to call the shots. So I'm done. I've given up, for a lack of a better phrasing. Somebody said a few posts back that I either need to accept her as she is, or get divorced. That's exactly right... and I am not divorcing her. I am going to look into medication that will lower my sex drive. I'm tired of being horny and frustrated all the time, and masturbating is getting really old.* 

I'm not trying to thread jack, apologize if it seems that way. I'm just trying to state my experience to help the OP. I'm 35, wife is 31. I realize we're pretty young to be experiencing this, but experiencing it I am! I have a very high sex drive, she is practically asexual. People will tell you to just get divorced, that your happiness matters too, that you deserve the sex life you want, blah blah blah. I love my wife, love our family, love our life together a lot more than I love sex... so I've made my choice. The awkward thing is, tonight my wife is probably going to try to initiate some duty sex... it's been a week. What to do, what to do...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

There are medical issues that need to be ruled out in cases of low drive but when those aren't the cause it's time to look at the situation. 

It doesn't have to be blame. It's not the "mans fault" that they don't spend 15 hours a week alone together, that's usually on both of them but it is a factor that is contributing so it needs to be looked at. 
If she's not getting her needs filled for something, she may not be expressing it properly. 

She's also not the one here to get advice so the steps will be for whoever is here. Can't tell your spouse to try things if they aren't here kwim?


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## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

I don't have much to say other than what's been said, but I can tell you that what is happening to you guys is completely NORMAL. We are led to believe that sex should always be easy, spontaneous, and that we should (excuse my frankness) hump like rabbits all the time. This is a lie for most of us, unfortunately, because it doesn't match up with our biology or psychology. I am glad you have moved past thinking it is about her feelings about you and into a healthy dialogue (my husband is getting there but he is still taking it personally sometimes). I honestly think (as a woman) that you are handling this well and doing what you can. I can really tell you love and cherish your wife.

To reach further towards a solution that works for both of you, please, please, please read "Mating in Captivity" by Esther Perel. Someone on here recommended it to me and I'm a few chapters in and it's changing my whole mindset. You could also watch her TEDtalks, just search her name on google and they will likely come up. I have noticed an uptick in my sex drive because her ideas have made me realize I am a normal human and by not blaming myself all the time.

There is no magic solution to this, but you guys both educating yourselves on why this is happening is a great way to continue the dialogue and work towards something that works for both of you. 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Brother, you need to reed "no more mr nice guy". You can find the free PDF online


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## trexonabike (Jul 25, 2017)

I could have written almost the same post after our second child was born. We had had a great sex life before that, but immediately my wife lost all desire. We had sex maybe every 6-8 weeks if I pushed for it, never touched; she even asked me to move into the guest room for several months because "she needed the sleep." I work three jobs so she could be a SAHM and I did everything that was supposed to be the right things - made sure she had time to go out, got babysitters, did the household chores, etc. And I didn't push the sex talk because I figured our sex life would come back as the kids got older. That was 16 years ago. The intimacy and her desire never came back. We have a tremendous "partnership" and I love her and desire her and the sex, when we have it, is great for her. After 20+ years of marriage, I still lust after her. But according to her, she just has no desire for sex or intimacy, she never thinks about it, so we rarely have sex - which she just does not see as a problem. I've tried talking with her, self-help books ( she refused to read them), lifestyle changes, exercise, travel, time together, time apart - all great for our relationship. But absolutely no change in in our sex life. So we have a partnership - it is not a marriage without intimacy. I just found this forum because I have been doing my last-ditch research to try and decide what to do next. Stay or go. My advice - you and your spouse need to work on this problem now because 15 years of no intimacy and a non-existent sex life will crush your soul and no matter how much you love your spouse, the resentment grows and grows and eventually you have to make a very hard decision. Don't let it linger like I did.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

spawn2031 said:


> I'm very involved with them and I do quite a bit of the housework for her. I make sure the house is completely clean before she comes hone at night cuz I know she hates nothing else more in the world than to walk into a mess. It gets her anxiety up, so I do what I can to ease her day and I always do so not so much out of love as more of a, it's my job too, kind of stand point.


Well if you supposedly see housework as 'my job too' -- which it *IS* since she's working too - then why do you say "I do quite a bit of the housework FOR her?"



> So I have followed and whole heartedly agree with your suggestions. It's what a loving and supportive husband does right? But this is where I am having a hard time. I'm giving her everything that I know she needs and what she tells me she needs. I make a concerted effort to be present in the relationship for her and to engage with her. She tells me all the time how sexy I am to her and how in love with me she is, which I absolutely LOVE to hear from her, but it also frustrates me because if that's the case, if I am these things, why does she not attack me or at least seem interested in sex even just a little? That's where my understanding of things breaks down and I dont know how to proceed.


Big deal. You're doing your *SHARE*. You're acting as though she should be rewarding you by jumping your bones every night just because you're doing your SHARE. Do you give *her* a ticker tape parade every day because she's doing HER share? No, because it's just expected that she does it but you seem to think you're different and should be recognized for it.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

When a wife loses her sex drive, everybody is always so quick to put the blame on the husband. They accuse him of doing LESS THAN HIS EQUAL SHARE of the housework, child duties, and everything else. The OP is not looking for a medal for doing his SHARE of the housework. He is merely stating that his wife's low libido is not a result of him being negligent or taking her for granted. 

I had my own similar thread a few months ago, and people accused me up and down of similar things. I don't deny my wife has a lot on her plate, she does. So do I, but I'm not keeping score of how many times I do the dishes vs how many times she does the dish. I know that in the case of my wife, OP's wife and countless others, the stress that comes from being a family with young children where both parents work can have a huge impact on their sex drives. But I also know that there are other factors that come into play.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We don't tell you guys that just to blame you, podiumboy. We tell you that because WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT. Women will never have the drive you have, and for most women, the emotional component is the driving factor to whether she wants to have sex, and how into it she is. 

And there ARE other factors at play - psychological ones: stress, getting used to the relationship and it not seeming new anymore, husband not pursuing like he did when dating so she doesn't feel that spark anymore, even growing resentment over a husband who keeps harping on 'what she's doing wrong' wrt not wanting sex as much. Which is why we keep telling you guys that she will never be the hot to trot thing she was when you first met unless YOU make it your mission to get in tune with her psychological status and create the right setting. 

Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But it is LIFE. That is how females function. Unless you want to become homosexual and get a partner with the same biological urge you have, you have a choice: deal with the reality and do things to make her more into it or stay miserable.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

All true, which is why I advise against marriage .


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

My experience with this is that once she doesn't want to she doesn't want to. It's a control thing that some women seem to crave. Being too tired is nothing more than an excuse. There little to nothing a guy can do about that other than either accepting it and having a sexless marriage or divorcing her and becoming suddenly poor.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jb, you have no idea what the female mind processes so please stop assessing motives to women.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

turnera said:


> jb, you have no idea what the female mind processes so please stop assessing motives to women.




I'm sure you have heard of gatekeeper? Largely attributed to women. Sure, gatekeeper can be attributed to men but I'm sure jb didn't make that up. 

When I was in a sexless marriage I noticed my very busy wife was very interested in other time- consuming-mind-numbing activities while claiming she didn't have time to share 1 hour/week with me. 

However, rather than pout, I did something about it.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

turnera said:


> jb, you have no idea what the female mind processes so please stop assessing motives to women.


What motives is he assessing? 




> It's a control thing that some women seem to crave


I agree with you - there are reasons women are not like men and will never have the sex drive of men, after the job of capturing him is done  - on average with exceptions of course. Once her long term lower drive surfaces she controls frequency - not a motive, just a fact.



> Being too tired is nothing more than an excuse.


Similarly, is she actually tired? She may well be (call it a fact) but it *is* an excuse not 'the reason'. If the baby cries she picks it up whether she is 'tired' or not. If she is a worker she generally goes to work whether or not she is 'tired'. 

Sex with hubby? Not so much. 

It is really important for the guy to understand what is going on here, both your list of reasons (I'm agreeing with you!) AND the fact that the laundry list of explanations he'll get from the average younger women in the midst of child rearing is at best half truth's and at worst excuses she probably believes but aren't actually the reasons.


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## CharlizeAngel17 (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks for sharing your issue. First, I am the same way about being clean before I have sex witty my spouse. You won't change her mind; trust me. I was raised by a mother that put that in my head and made me smell dirty panties to remind me that a woman is always fresh!

I had the issue of not being able to have an orgasm; got a piercing and it helped somewhat. Women are built different; we don't all orgasm ant most fake it. 

She made need testosterone from her doctor to get a sexual appetite. I have a few lady friends that are in it and its prescribed at certain doses. 

Your wife may need a life; an outlet other than home life. You have one, say don't expect her to be at the ready when you get home to spread her legs like YAY, I'VE BEEN WAITING ALL DAY. She's not; and may need professional life coach counseling. Have her get blood work done to make sure she's not dying through a depression. The doctor will be able to help if it comes back that her vitamin D, and other vitals are off. 

You too may need some professional help; I applaud you for seeking help and not cheating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

anonmd said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> > > Being too tired is nothing more than an excuse.
> ...


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply here to my posting. All of your input is invaluable to me and as for those of you that are in a very similar situation, I feel for you as a brother in suffering but it is also nice to see that we are not alone. Perhaps we can take some kind of solace in that knowledge... as for those of you that decided that bashing us, telling us that we don't do enough chores or help out, etc... or like this one....



She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well if you supposedly see housework as 'my job too' -- which it *IS* since she's working too - then why do you say "I do quite a bit of the housework FOR her?"
> 
> 
> Big deal. You're doing your *SHARE*. You're acting as though she should be rewarding you by jumping your bones every night just because you're doing your SHARE. Do you give *her* a ticker tape parade every day because she's doing HER share? No, because it's just expected that she does it but you seem to think you're different and should be recognized for it.


You need to stop hating and thinking that we are trying to solve this just to get laid more often, it's all about us and that we don't truly care about our wives and our relationships. To address your "out-in-left-field" response @She'sStillGotIt , The reason I said FOR her is because my wife is the kind of woman that still thinks old school. She truly believes those jobs ARE hers even though they aren't. Anyway....

I have taken the approach for quite sometime that the problem was mine to fix. I am not the kind of person who immediately assumes that, in any given situation, someone else is the issue. I always attempt to assess my own behavior first. Many times I find that either I am to blame or at least share the blame. So that is how I looked at this issue too.

1) Attentiveness - This was an issue that was all mine to own. As I have stated before, I hit a long slump where I was very guilty of not being attentive enough to her. That has been fixed for quite some time now.

2) Doing the chores - I actually do way more of the household stuff than she does. As I stated above, she's old school and thinks it's HER job but I force her to let me do them instead because I know it would be just too much for her along with everything else she does. That includes the kids as well.

2) Constant begging or talking about sex - This is one that only a few of you have brought up as a potential issue and you are right on. As a friend has pointed out recently, us guys are fixers. We try to fix things. So naturally when I identified this as a problem, I want to fix it through talking to her about it, trying to figure out where we went wrong and then working on it. Problem was that all the talking never turned into working on it so I continued to talk about it more and more and more until it was almost the only thing we were talking about. Even though my heart is in the right place, constantly talking to her about it was pushing her away and creating too much pressure around the topic. So once again, I am identifying this as an issue I have and am trying my best to keep my mouth shut. I've said all that I can say to her about the topic, beating a dead horse certainly wont help, but it can certainly hurt. 

3) Lack of quality time spent together - Ok this one is tough of course. Obviously not due to lack of desire to but just due to there's only so many hours in the day, it is almost impossible to gain anymore time than we already have. This is our typical schedule. I'm up at 5am and leave before anyone wakes up for work, she's at home with the kids. I come home at 3pm and take over with the kids and sit and talk to her for a little bit before she has to be out of the door at 3:30 to go to work herself. She gets home at 9:30 we spend about 1-1.5 hrs together before we both have to crash. Rinse repeat 3-5x/wk. Now we do get the occasional nice night together at least 2x a week when she doesn't work and we spend the entire time together helping each other with the kids until they crash at 7pm. This is our life and it's obviously not going to change for at least a couple more years. Still, I am not just laying down and taking that one and giving up, so what do I do? EVERY TIME I see her or am leaving, I make sure and give her a nice long (but not overly passionate) kiss. I have also set things up in our house so that when she comes home, we can now go back and relax together in bed watching something that I let her chose before bed. We couldn't do this before due to our bedroom being right next to our sons and he's a light sleeper. So no video games, Facebook, etc... all the typical mindless stuff that we used to do. this is a new change so there hasn't been enough time to see how well it will help yet. If nothing else, it promotes us being closer more often. As far as fro sitters and nights out, we do that whenever we can. 1x/mo maybe twice. If we had the spare cash to do that more often, my wife wouldn't be working a p/t job.

4) Talking together - I am lucky enough to have a job where I am able to chat with her just about any time I want and I take advantage of that. Even though we don't get to physically be around each other as much as we would like, we get to talk all day long.

Why am I running all this list down for you? All of these things I have done (and more that just aren't coming to mind) I am not doing for me. I am doing these things to make her happy and to try and alleviate some of the stress and drain on her day to day in hopes that, when she has time, she decides to use that time for us instead of staring at a screen. We are both tired from our days, we both have our massive challenges to get through each day. I do get the fact that being a SAHM is taxing to say the least on your mind with all the screaming and other toddler stuff. I certainly feel it too on the days that I take lead with the kids when I am home (Sat / Sun). But I am never too tired to try and make my wife's life better, to try and make sure she has a good day or to make her happy if she's had a bad one... but she is quite often too tired to do the same for me? Too tired to concentrate on figuring out ways to give me what I need too? That just doesn't seem fair and is very one sided.

The problem is that there are tons of resources out there to tell us men that it's our fault because we dont understand what a woman really needs to feel connected. A woman needs so many different things other than sex to feel connected, fulfilled and happy. But what about us guys? Way too many women do not understand that the awesome feeling you get when we are cuddling with you, paying attention to you, loving you is NOT the same feeling we get. We feel great when we do that stuff and wouldn't trade it for the world but we need SEX to get that same level of completeness that you get from the afore mentioned stuff. And not just duty sex (which is a term I'd never heard before but sums it up perfectly), we need attentive sex, we need to know you want us and need you to show that sexual desire for us. So where's all the articles and stuff pointing the finger back at the women?? I am busting my ass trying to be a better husband for my wife because I deeply care for what she tells me she needs (which is backed up by everything else I have read). Isn't it fair to expect the same from her? What would one of you women say if you had a similar conversation with your hubby about them not giving you what you need and we told you "I'm sorry, it's just not on my mind" or "Sorry, I'm just too tired"? You guys would flip your lid!!

Now in my Wife's defense, I do believe that she is tired as hell and I give her MAD props for the duty sex that she is providing. I try to make it easier on her by only trying in the morning, before she is exhausted from the day and it seems to help. I try to put myself in her shoes everyday and to be as understanding about all of this. But I long for the day when she comes at me, when she looks at me with hungry lustful eyes and lets me know beyond a shadow of a doubt that She wants to **** the hell outta me. But I know that's not going to happen because she never thinks about sex. Can't really decide to get yourself worked up enough to **** the hell out of your hubby if you never think about it, right? So I had to work on my faults. It was expected of me. It is expected of me to provide my wife the emotional support, love and caring that she deeply deserves / needs and I would honestly have it no other way. Why doesn't it go the same for the woman? Why is it acceptable for the man to go without? Because we are perceived to be big stoic dudes that are tough and don't need it? Because it's perceived that sex is just a physical thing and is not really necessary? I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. We need sex to feel connected and fulfilled, just as much as you need what you need.

*Mic Drop* :wink2:


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

anastasia6 said:


> And here explains why many wives aren't that into sex. First many wives don't O often so it doesn't have the same urgency as the man who O's almost every time.


Then hopefully the guy is trying to do something about that else yeah, I can see why ignoring the woman's pleasure would become a contributing issue.




anastasia6 said:


> And the man expects her to treat HIS O like the needs of a helpless baby's life sustaining nourishment without seeing the difference. She can't ignore the baby even if she's dead tired. If there is time and energy for only 10 things in one evening feeding the baby, bathing, nursing, burping, changing diapers x3, changing clothing , dishes, cooking, paying bills, walk the dog, and such are all things that have to get done then done again.


Here is the disconnect for you women, as I stated in my previous post, We NEED it just as you NEED our love, attention and affection. It's not just about the O, I can use my hand for that. It's what makes us feel completely connected to you. Without it, we.. or at least I, feel empty.




anastasia6 said:


> Bottom line is sometimes there's no emotional or sensual energy left.


Completely understood and in a SAHM situation, any man that doesn't take that heavily in to account when considering frequency is just being an ass and not very understanding.



anastasia6 said:


> Once you become a chore your easier to ignore. Be a source of pleasure, safety, sanctuary, stress relief. Focus and better O's for her, emotional, and actual support and you'll see some change. But don't expect honeymoon sex during early childhood its two different times and states of life. I'd also suggest some score keeping. Write down every single thing that has to get done in a day including holding children, answering questions like do you like this, dishes and such. Look at the load. Try for half or more. I can tell you from personal experience my 40+ hour a week job now is easier than full time SAHM of small children. Small children wear out emotional and touch centers. They demand constant attention and affirmation.


Agreed 100% But many women it seems (possibly including my wife) expect us to do what you just mentioned above but without any sense of accountability towards trying to make things better themselves. Kids definitely take a lot out of you, no doubt. One of the toughest things I have personally ever done but that's not an excuse for not paying attention to the mans needs long term. I can't think of any reason / excuse that a woman would accept from a man for neglecting her needs long term.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> Here is the disconnect for you women, as I stated in my previous post, We NEED it just as you NEED our love, attention and affection. It's not just about the O, I can use my hand for that. It's what makes us feel completely connected to you. Without it, we.. or at least I, feel empty.


I hear you. But as I said, allowing a man to undress you, do personal things to/with you, go inside you, have you be vulnerable with him...for a female, these things are not the same as for men. Giving someone attention doesn't require anything close to what it requires to put yourself out there for sex. Women are well aware you want their BODY for you to do something to it. Say it's all about the connection all you want, but that doesn't change what the experience is like for a female. 

If you're not getting this, there are dozens of books out there on what it's like for a female to have sex, if you truly want to understand what HER side of the aisle is going through psychologically. What you are asking of her is to CHANGE her brain from one of oversight of household, care for kids, keeping things going to show up for work every day, maintaining a relationship with you - psychologically - and then being able to switch it all off and focus only on you and on having 'fun' with you. I'm sure you've heard about the difference between men and women and multitasking; men usually can't, women do it all.the.time. This is a brain function. Women typically can't just shut down all the other aspects of her life that she is responsible for like men can. When you two were dating or just married, there wasn't that much for her to DO, that required her attention. No kids, no history with the in-laws, no house to take care of - probably just a small apartment that can be maintained in an hour a week, no laundry for multiple people, no kids' friends' parents' relationships to maintain, no schools to deal with, no doctors' appointments for multiple people, no picking up several prescriptions, on and on. Women don't turn all this stuff off; they know it's there, all the time, because they run the household. They know they have 200 things they have to be responsible for and are always on alert for one of those issues to pop up. 

So even if she wanted to relax and have 'fun' with you, and wanted to have it all the time, she will feel guilt/responsibility/need to reprioritize, at least while the kids are little.

You say you understand you just have to wait out the kids' younger years before you can find more time with her, but beware. If you can't find ways to spend 10+ hours with her every week, she's going to emotionally pull away from you even more, and she may even be vulnerable to someone else's attention. _Find a way_. So that she remembers her relationship with you is her #1 priority again. So that she will find a WAY to put all those other things on the back burner. If you can't find a way to nurture that relationship, if you can't find her a new job so you two are on the same schedule, if you can't look at what your family does with its time and compress it so you have more spare time, not only will you have little sex, but your marriage will be in danger.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

turnera said:


> spawn2031 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the disconnect for you women, as I stated in my previous post, We NEED it just as you NEED our love, attention and affection. It's not just about the O, I can use my hand for that. It's what makes us feel completely connected to you. Without it, we.. or at least I, feel empty.
> ...



First off, no I'm not content to wait a few years till the kids are in school. I personally think that's a disaster and will only make the issue far worse.

Second, we already do spend 10+ hours a week together. It's just all very family based right now except when the kids are sleeping.

Third, there's obviously no way that I could ever 100% understand the phycological side of surrendering your body for sex and I don't claim to understand that. I only claim to understand what my wife needs from me to feel fulfilled and content in our relationship. What I am trying to say is it is a man's responsibility to make sure that his wifes needs are met and if he isnt doing that then he is expected to solve that. Regardless of the difference in what goes on mentally, it is both spouses responsibility to each other to do what they need to get past issues like this. At least it should be. Even your response was very targeted on the man fixing his problems. Thank god not all women see it this way but it is extremely frustrating to see it when it happens.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I said 10+ hours without kids/electronics/chores. Bonding time. 

Again, I am NOT blaming you. I'm trying to educate you and show you your best options on how to fix the situation. This problem is as old as time but we have more resources at our disposal now than ever. Make use of them.


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## CharlizeAngel17 (Jul 27, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> So sorry about that :surprise:




You know my mom was born in 1940; they did things differently with rearing kids. I'm not affected by it, just giving him background on WHY she may have a desire to be clean. We only know what he's telling us, therefore we can't assume 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

A lot of times the 10+ hours a week thing is the woman's "fault"
She doesn't want to leave the kids with strangers, she's worried about having a babysitter over cause the house is a mess. 
I think this area is one many couples have problems with and like 99% of the people here who are having issues are not spending quality time together away from kids and tv. 

Doesn't really matter who is at fault. Just matters that it's fixed with consistency. 

Which means no date night then expect the results that day. 
"Ya we did a few dates but I didn't get more sex out of it so it didn't work" 

Give it a good amount of time - months- of 10+ Hours of recreation, talking, dating (they say 20 when you're already at the point of problems) 
Be outside the home, no kids, no watching tv.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

First off all, srry for the tone of the responses the other day. As one of the other gents here said, when you're dealing with this issue, it is very easy to feel resentment towards your partner and let anger generate. I do my best to conceal my anger about the issue as I don't think it will hep the situation. She knows and me letting a display of anger or frustration out won't help the situation, I dont think. Anyway, that was one of those days I was having a hard time keeping it all under control...




CharlizeAngel17 said:


> You know my mom was born in 1940; they did things differently with rearing kids. I'm not affected by it, just giving him background on WHY she may have a desire to be clean. We only know what he's telling us, therefore we can't assume
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's her OCD on this for certain. She has confirmed that fact with me. I have talked in depth with her about everything that bothers her, smell, being dirty, etc... even told her that everything about it turns me on from looks to taste and there's no logical thought process there. It is truly an irrational feeling but still all too real for her. We just have to figure out a way to coexist with it. I'm definitely down for any kind of suggestions on that one. One member suggested us both showering before sex, that has a good chance of working when time permits, when you're the parents of 2 beautiful little ones, time is certainly a commodity.



turnera said:


> I said 10+ hours without kids/electronics/chores. Bonding time.
> 
> Again, I am NOT blaming you. I'm trying to educate you and show you your best options on how to fix the situation. This problem is as old as time but we have more resources at our disposal now than ever. Make use of them.


I hear you, absolutely and that is something that we both do as much as we can at this point in time to fulfill. We talk about that all the time, about how much we wish we had a support structure around us to allow us to get out more together. Things are what they are at this point and there is literally nothing more we can do about it. We both have rearranged our days so that when we are home together we're not chasing after chores or what not so that we can make the most of what time we have. It's something we are both focused on.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> A lot of times the 10+ hours a week thing is the woman's "fault"
> She doesn't want to leave the kids with strangers, she's worried about having a babysitter over cause the house is a mess.
> I think this area is one many couples have problems with and like 99% of the people here who are having issues are not spending quality time together away from kids and tv.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the "fault" thing, honestly I dont care who's fault it is as long as both of us acknowledge the issue and are actively doing our parts to solve it. She has no problem with leaving the kids with the ONE babysitter we have been able to find... small town, small options but if we are gone for long periods of time, she does begin to feel guilty... we both do actually. Recently my Mom came up from out of town and watched the kids for the weekend and we had a little get away. Half way thru the 2nd day we were both missing them and felt guilty that we didn't have them with us. We had a great 1.5 days alone though  

The difficulty that we run into with trying to carve out more time, in case you didn't see it from earlier posts is we have no family around us, only 1 semi-reliable sitter and bills enough that we both HAVE to work. I kept her as a 100% SAHM as long as I could. I didn't want her going back to work because I feared how exhausted she would be and the loss of time for us. It was unavoidable after 2.5 years.

*********

On a positive note, we had a great weekend. We were intimate actually several times this weekend. I made it a point to tell her how happy it made me to see that she was trying as hard as I was to get things back to where they were and she told me that she really wanted things back to how they were too and she is happy to do her part. That's different than things have been over the past few months. So far the only real changes I have made it I have stopped trying to talk to her about it all the time & pulled back somewhat.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

spawn2031 said:


> On a positive note, we had a great weekend. We were intimate actually several times this weekend. I made it a point to tell her how happy it made me to see that she was trying as hard as I was to get things back to where they were and she told me that she really wanted things back to how they were too and she is happy to do her part. That's different than things have been over the past few months. So far the only real changes I have made it I have stopped trying to talk to her about it all the time *& pulled back somewhat.*


Remember that


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## stiiky (Jul 29, 2017)

I am a stay-at-home mother and have very little to no desire for sex as well. I figured out my biggest problem was I'm so uptight that I cannot relax. Even with a few beers, I'm not able to relax. I have two special needs children, but the stress is all the same regardless if you have special needs children or neuro typical children. Marijuana seems to be the only thing that helps me relax enough to actually enjoy myself and let go of any stress. Medical and recreational marijuana is legal in my state. I only use it once a week after the kids are in bed when my husband gets home from work. I'm not recommending it as a solution. I'm only sharing what helped me.

Of course, your wife may have something else going on. Some medications can affect sex drive. I believe you mentioned your wife is taking OCD medication. There could be something hormonally going on. She may want to have her hormones checked with a doctor. Something could be off balance and be affecting her sex drive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stiiky, if you are not in a state that legalized marijuana, you are putting your family at risk. When you could have gone to therapy instead. Just sayin'.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

This is a topic I have a great deal of interest in. I've written about on my site and talked about it on my podcast. Both the dead bedroom posts and the dead bedroom podcast episodes are the most viewed/downloaded topics... BY FAR. Like 10 to 1 compared to the next most popular topic (dating after divorce.. LOL).

I could go on and on about this, but it's admittedly all subjective and anecdotal. It's what I have come to conclude after talking to a lot of dudes and lot of single women. I'm sure others have different experiences. 

Here are the big points:

1. Holy sh*t is this common. I experienced it with my ex-wife. She just couldn't get into sex with me. Didn't want it, didn't need it... didn't understand why... but no fire down below. She was the busiest person you can imagine. Work work work. Kids kids kids. Stress stress stress. She eventually got caught in an affair. She dropped everything to keep her relationship with new guy going. All of the divorced women I met after divorce and while dating initiated their own divorces. They were bored. They had no oomph left. Something or someone sparked a fire in them and they left their men and blew up their marriages as a result.

2. With men in dead bedroom situations, there is a battle between their feelings of comfortable wholesome family behavior ... and their innate, primal sexual needs. They honestly believe that there is NO need to continue doing the shallow and silly stuff that they had to do while dating and courting their wife. Now? They don't look good. They don't act sexy. They aren't interesting. They provide and provide and provide and provide. They are a paycheck, a childcare provider, a maid and a handyman. They fully expect to be rewarded for their efforts with sex. They are in complete denial that sex is given to somebody who brings about a primal sexual urge and desire in their woman. No... sex is given to the guy who provides the best. Besides.. she married him and she's SUPPOSED to give him sex. Meanwhile their woman is reading horrible sex novels, Fifty Shades, not touching him, cringing at his touch, etc. He never gets the hint.

Divorce happens. What does the guy do? Hits the gym. Changes the warddrobe. Focuses on hobbies and time with friends. Becomes a more sexy and attractive version of himself. Holy crap... he can land sexy young women?!? 25 year olds?! This is awesome!! It almost seems to be a biological reaction. When courting and hunting women you become a more "shallow" and sexy version of yourself. When you are married, you slip into a deeper and more comfortable provider role... and say goodbye to the sexy. 

Dissecting Dead Bedrooms | Dad Starting Over


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> Why am I running all this list down for you? All of these things I have done (and more that just aren't coming to mind) I am not doing for me. I am doing these things to make her happy and to try and alleviate some of the stress and drain on her day to day in hopes that, when she has time, she decides to use that time for us instead of staring at a screen. We are both tired from our days, we both have our massive challenges to get through each day. I do get the fact that being a SAHM is taxing to say the least on your mind with all the screaming and other toddler stuff. I certainly feel it too on the days that I take lead with the kids when I am home (Sat / Sun). But I am never too tired to try and make my wife's life better, to try and make sure she has a good day or to make her happy if she's had a bad one... but she is quite often too tired to do the same for me? Too tired to concentrate on figuring out ways to give me what I need too? That just doesn't seem fair and is very one sided.
> 
> The problem is that there are tons of resources out there to tell us men that it's our fault because we dont understand what a woman really needs to feel connected. A woman needs so many different things other than sex to feel connected, fulfilled and happy. But what about us guys? Way too many women do not understand that the awesome feeling you get when we are cuddling with you, paying attention to you, loving you is NOT the same feeling we get. We feel great when we do that stuff and wouldn't trade it for the world but we need SEX to get that same level of completeness that you get from the afore mentioned stuff. And not just duty sex (which is a term I'd never heard before but sums it up perfectly), we need attentive sex, we need to know you want us and need you to show that sexual desire for us. So where's all the articles and stuff pointing the finger back at the women?? I am busting my ass trying to be a better husband for my wife because I deeply care for what she tells me she needs (which is backed up by everything else I have read). Isn't it fair to expect the same from her? What would one of you women say if you had a similar conversation with your hubby about them not giving you what you need and we told you "I'm sorry, it's just not on my mind" or "Sorry, I'm just too tired"? You guys would flip your lid!!
> 
> ...


It sounds like what you really want from your wife is for her to respond to your advances enthusiastically and to show passion towards you during sex - right? You want her to show passion towards you because it makes you FEEL she wants you and desires you - like you want and desire her! While this issue is complicated and multifaceted and not an easy one to navigate - one problem could be that your pictures of passion and desire are drawn from your experiences with a testosterone fueled body that makes you feel horny and desire sex with her at the drop of a hat. You look at your wife and the testosterone flowing through your body makes you want to be with her sexually, causes you to crave to be with her sexually, fuels your frequent sexual desire for her - and when you are with her sexually, not only does it feel amazing, but you also FEEL more love towards her and more bonded to her. So the more the better - right? 

You emphasize that the problem in your marriage is not just about the lack of frequent sex - its also about not FEELING emotionally connected to her when she does not act passionately towards you during sex. Lately, I have been wondering how much the testosterone difference between men and women contributes to these high/low drive conflicts in marriages like yours.

If you could go to your doctor and get him to suppress your testosterone level - just for a little while, I think you would have an eye opening experience. For you to understand your wife - it would really help to FEEL what she feels or more accurately - not feel what she does not feel. For her to understand how you feel - it would help for her to feel what it is like to have all that testosterone fueling constant sexual feelings. 

I know - because I had a taste of having extremely high levels (for a woman) of testosterone for several months back when I started hormonal therapy and my levels spiked to over 100 times what they should have been. How I was then with very high levels and how I am now with the appropriate levels is night and day different. Being horny a lot - wanting sex a lot - feeling passionate and excited about sex - I felt a kind of drugged high. Now - seldom horny - sex feels good, but I don't desire it all that much. I can get into it, but it takes time, effort and stimulation to get desire and arousal started. When your wife says she does not ever think about sex or seldom randomly gets horny - believe her. Its true. Her hormones are not the same as yours. I believe that affects her sexual response to you. It probably has nothing to do with her love for you or her attraction to you. Lack of a passionate sexual response does not always equate to a lack of passionate love and desire for you. I personally believe that testosterone fuels most of mens passion and desire for sex. Women don't have that same fuel. 

Men come on here and say they want more sex with their wives. But when their wives give them more sex - usually more unenthusiastic, and non-energetic sex because they (the women) don't really want more sex - it is not enough, nor is it satisfactory to the men. What men really want is a certain type of sex and a certain natural reaction shown by their wives during sex. They want their wife to FEEL about sex with them like they FEEL about having sex with their wives. They want their wives to react enthusiastically, to desire and respond sexually the same way they do. And they want the feelings and response to be spontaneous and genuine - and to happen often enough that they feel satisfied most of the time.

I think you and other men are asking for something that does not naturally happen for many women - what you want is not how their body works, Spontaneous desire and enthusiasm for having sex (after the new and exciting honeymoon phase wears off and mundane life kicks in) does not occur with sexual advances alone for many women. It has to be coxed out from its very deep and comfortable sleeping spot - often with a great deal of effort (from their husbands and most importantly from themselves) and then because it lacks the testosterone fuel - it has to be primed and perhaps jump started. This is where the problem begins - thinking it should just be there naturally - when it is not. Husbands can't figure it out how to get it going - and women don't seem to be interested in making the effort. Once again I think part of this lack of desire for even making an effort is also because they don't understand that it really can be primed and jump started if allowed - even without the desire fuel.

When the women does allow the effort of jump starting the desire, it still is not an easy process and requires a lot of mental effort on her part. this is what I think happens for a lot of women. A man looks at his wife's naked body - and immediately desires sex and is ready to go at that very moment. He loves her, and sex makes him feel close to her. The wife, on the other hand is thinking about everything under the sun except sex. It's not even on her radar. So - hubby is aroused and ready to go - approaches her - and she agrees to try, but is starting from ground 0 - no arousal and no desire to have sex - none. Instead, she has a million other things on her mind. So she has to find a way to totally clear everything out of her head - relax and try to open up her feeling receptacles, reach down deep in her mind, ignoring any show stopping relationship or resentment issue residues and try to find some sexual feelings somewhere - anywhere. If she can find some then she has to try to let a spark ignite from that sexual feeling she was lucky enough to find - then let it be fanned into a flame, and then concentrate hard to keep it from extinguishing. Then, hopefully, she manages to let it burn to a conclusion - all while trying to connect and respond to her husbands actions, feeling like she may be taking too long to get there - worried that she may not get there at all for whatever reason, and trying hard to not think about how disgusted he must be with her saggy, stretch marked stomach and/or deflated boobs. Finally, on a lucky evening, a mutually successful and satisfying conclusion occurs and they get to lay in each others arms and enjoy the afterglow before her racing mind takes off on its previous journey again while he falls quickly into a deep sleep. Then the very next morning she wakes, finding her husband refreshed, aroused and ready to go again - while, she is back to thinking about a million other things and sex and any desire for sex is totally off her radar again. 

Men - If this was your experience - almost every time you had sex - and you had very little testosterone fueling your desire for sex - how often do you think you would want sex. I don't believe its about lack of love or sexual attractiveness (in most cases). I think its partially about the way their body works without the testosterone desire fuel vs the way your body works with it, 

I know this doesn't help make you feel any better about your situations - but what exactly do you expect your wife to do to change how her body responds and reacts?
Supplementing testosterone for some women helps a little - but women can not have the high levels that men have without negative side effects so they are probably never going to respond to sex the way you do. 

There are no easy answers - no one fits all solutions. I think solving the low/high drive conflict takes patience and love, lots of open and honest communication about each others emotional and physical needs and wants, learning about each others bodies, trying different ways to jump start and increase the low drivers desire levels, sometimes getting professional help - and the high driver making compromises - realizing they probably are not going to get it as much as they want. If both spouses work together solutions can be found that are acceptable to both.

Often, though, the low driver refuses to work on their part. When that happens the hgh drivers have to decide what they can live with and what they can not live with.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks for that Mary. 

What I want is pretty simple. I want her to behave, react, BE, like she was when we met and WAS for a couple / few years before marriage and even more significantly, before childbirth. I am however a reasonable man. I'd settle for 1/2 or a 1/4 or even 10% of that. 

Frankly, anything less (10%! talk about 'settling') feels like a scam. I know it is possible, during periods when I am totally disgusted with the whole situation and don't pursue at all it would come actually happen once every 6-8 weeks pre menopause and maybe once a year post. That's not acceptable.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

Yes, thank you very much for that Mary. I think you are pretty much spot on with your assessment and yes, that is exactly how I feel. I really do think the sad part about this is women aren't stupid by any means. So then why do they not work on this? Why are there so many of them that see this kind of issue developing and just let it slide or turn to others for comfort instead? As I said in my post a couple back, if there is a problem with us guys, it is expected that we fix it and if we dont, well we deserve whatever happens. That really needs to be a 2 way street. IMO. 

There's a lot of guys out there that do exactly what @dadstartingover is talking about. They get comfortable and fall into complacency. It's a natural progression with a lot of relationships but still no less damaging. I've already ranted about his before, so I wont go there again, lol. I just think that both sexes are just as guilty as the other for not doing enough to keep that spark going for their partner and both sexes should be held equally accountable for that.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> Yes, thank you very much for that Mary. I think you are pretty much spot on with your assessment and yes, that is exactly how I feel. I really do think the sad part about this is women aren't stupid by any means. So then why do they not work on this? Why are there so many of them that see this kind of issue developing and just let it slide or turn to others for comfort instead? As I said in my post a couple back, if there is a problem with us guys, it is expected that we fix it and if we dont, well we deserve whatever happens. That really needs to be a 2 way street. IMO.
> 
> There's a lot of guys out there that do exactly what @dadstartingover is talking about. They get comfortable and fall into complacency. It's a natural progression with a lot of relationships but still no less damaging. I've already ranted about his before, so I wont go there again, lol. I just think that both sexes are just as guilty as the other for not doing enough to keep that spark going for their partner and both sexes should be held equally accountable for that.


First of all - I agree, it does need to be a 2 way street and both sexes should be held equally accountable for their part in their marriage. Neither should get comfortable and fall into complacency, but its unusual to find a marriage where this complacency does not happen. Its like "OK, we are married now - work is done and we can both relax and be lazy and the relationship will be fine!" Then kids come along - and they switch into parenting roles and/or focus on career goals. Very little time, if any is spent on the man/woman role - and keeping that main relationship alive and thriving. The newness and excitement phase wears off - sex starts to taper and become routine and somewhat predictable. And then its downhill from there. 

Does it have to be this way? No! So why is it this way in so many marriages? Because we allow it to go this way! Both the husband and the wife let it go this way! 

This is a scenario I hear observe over and over. Husbands seem afraid of their wives or are afraid to rock the boat and shift their focus to careers or hobbies - and wives, who seem to be the one more focused on the nitty gritty details of how things are done, gradually take over the leader role of the relationship and then lose respect for and build up resentment towards their husbands who have relinquished that role so quickly and completely and let them take it over!

Husbands cry foul play because their wives have become controlling, sexually distant and critical. Wives cry foul play because the husband has become emotionally distant, sexually needy, and whinny and/or cranky. Both feel like they were duped and did not sign up for what they now have. Neither are really happy or satisfied with the relationship - but now they have kids, and mortgages, etc. and what is to be done? They both feel stuck! They say they love each other and everything in the marriage is good - except this one thing - he wants more sex - and she is perfectly happy with none! The reality is the marriage is not good - but they have become comfortable with it anyways.

The women do not have the testosterone coursing through their bodies - that make them desire sex so much that they even though they have built up resentment issues and don't respect their husbands - they still want sex with them anyways. Testosterone fueled desire can overlook a lot of things! Without that fueled desire - sex quickly goes out the window for women as negative relationship issues get rug swept and resentment builds. Being the lower desire spouse, they control the sexual gate - and often keep the gate closed most of the time - making the husbands jump through hoop after hoop in hopes that the gate might open - even just a little bit. Men do have the testosterone coursing through their bodies - so they relinquish power to keep peace, overlook, rug sweep, and keep on trying to jump through those hoops, hoping this time they just might get some sex - so hungry for it they are willing to settle for any and all crumbs that are thrown their way or turning to masturbation and porn to feed their hunger. 

As this cycle continue, the marriage co-existers settle into a comfortable unsatisfied acceptance of "this is just the way it is"! Both spouses venture out of their comfort zone now and then seeing if there is something they can do to change things - wanting to become happier and more satisfied, but when they see that the requirements for change are more daunting then living with the known, they retreat back to their comfort zone - a little less happier and a little more unsatisfied than before - without even making a dent in any of the issues they are unsatisfied and unhappy with. Some eventually cheat or look elsewhere - others just stay stuck and find a way to be unhappily content. Sometimes one spouse becomes so unsatisfied and unhappy that staying in the comfort zone becomes so uncomfortable that they finally feel they can leave it for good. A few couples somehow find a way to break their cycle, drag themselves out of their unhappy comfort zone and face the issues in their marriage head on, working together to do what they need to do to fix them so that both can have a comfortable, yet happy and satisfactory relationship relationship instead.

Why there are so few that accomplish this remains a total mystery to me! Why do so many of us settle for comfortable misery rather than doing the work that needs to be done to change it to comfortable happiness?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do they not work on this? Because you're asking her to change her BRAIN, her feelings, her desires. You're asking her to become someone else. That would be like, I don't know, her telling you that for her to be happy, you'd have to start reading - and enjoying - romance novels. 

Scientifically, the only way for a woman to stay hot to trot is to get that part of the brain that feels butterflies to stay lit up. The PEA chemicals in the body that make new lovers' hearts go pitter patter. And the best way to feel those PEA chemicals is for the couple to not get in a rut, for things not to get routine, to 'date' like you did before you got married. That's why Dr. Harley pushes the 15 hours so much. New restaurants, going to a park, going for a walk, whatever. But find the time if you want better sex.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> I really do think the sad part about this is women aren't stupid by any means. So then why do they not work on this? Why are there so many of them that see this kind of issue developing and just let it slide or turn to others for comfort instead? As I said in my post a couple back, if there is a problem with us guys, it is expected that we fix it and if we dont, well we deserve whatever happens.



Yes we women are not sutpid! We are apparently smart enough to keep men in a relationship like this for years - jumping through hoops and accepting the crumbs we throw them. 

Yet, we are also incredible stupid enough to believe that our husbands will be happy and satisfied and remain devoted and in love with us after living in a relationship like this for years! :scratchhead:


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

turnera said:


> Why do they not work on this? Because you're asking her to change her BRAIN, her feelings, her desires. You're asking her to become someone else. That would be like, I don't know, her telling you that for her to be happy, you'd have to start reading - and enjoying - romance novels.
> 
> Scientifically, the only way for a woman to stay hot to trot is to get that part of the brain that feels butterflies to stay lit up. The PEA chemicals in the body that make new lovers' hearts go pitter patter. And the best way to feel those PEA chemicals is for the couple to not get in a rut, for things not to get routine, to 'date' like you did before you got married. That's why Dr. Harley pushes the 15 hours so much. New restaurants, going to a park, going for a walk, whatever. But find the time if you want better sex.


ITA!! There's so much 'why can't she just have sex with me like she used to?' but why can't you just date like you used to? Talk like you used to? 

I was talking to a female friend about "the poke" which is basically husband ignores her most of the day and does nothing to set the mood or take time to connect and they get in bed and she gets poked, he wants sex. Another friend chimed in that she also gets "the poke". Sounds horribly un-sexy and a turn off.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

turnera said:


> Why do they not work on this? Because you're asking her to change her BRAIN, her feelings, her desires. You're asking her to become someone else. That would be like, I don't know, her telling you that for her to be happy, you'd have to start reading - and enjoying - romance novels.
> 
> Scientifically, the only way for a woman to stay hot to trot is to get that part of the brain that feels butterflies to stay lit up. The PEA chemicals in the body that make new lovers' hearts go pitter patter. And the best way to feel those PEA chemicals is for the couple to not get in a rut, for things not to get routine, to 'date' like you did before you got married. That's why Dr. Harley pushes the 15 hours so much. New restaurants, going to a park, going for a walk, whatever. But find the time if you want better sex.


This!!!! But I agree with Spawn - women also need to take responsibility for doing this too. It is not only the husbands responsibility to nurture and keep their relationship hot to trot!!! Many men want to do things with their wives - but women worry about leaving their children with babysitters. What they don't understand is that healthy and happy husband/wife relationships are really good for children!!! Both need to work together to keep their relationship happy and healthy.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

So my question is to you men. If you feel it is also your wife's responsibility to make your marriage happy and healthy, why are you not holding her feet to the fire, calling her out when she does not do her part - and being honest enough to tell her the truth about what she is doing to your love and devotion to her and how it is hurting your marriage and may destroy it in the long run? Why do you jump through her hoops, making it your responsibility to fix everything, instead of facing this issue head on with her, clearly laying out what you want and need from her and then holding her accountable for her part? 

Oh - yeah! Its that pesty hormone called testosterone at work again, making you overlook negative things about her!! You know you can use that testosterone to turn things around too! You just have to learn to harness it and channel it in the right way!! Take back your power over YOUR own life and use it wisely.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

turnera said:


> Why do they not work on this? Because you're asking her to change her BRAIN, her feelings, her desires. You're asking her to become someone else. That would be like, I don't know, her telling you that for her to be happy, you'd have to start reading - and enjoying - romance novels.
> 
> Scientifically, the only way for a woman to stay hot to trot is to get that part of the brain that feels butterflies to stay lit up. The PEA chemicals in the body that make new lovers' hearts go pitter patter. And the best way to feel those PEA chemicals is for the couple to not get in a rut, for things not to get routine, to 'date' like you did before you got married. That's why Dr. Harley pushes the 15 hours so much. New restaurants, going to a park, going for a walk, whatever. But find the time if you want better sex.


This is all true, and what @mary35 says is true. Men and women are generally different when it comes to desire and arousal, and it's largely due to hormones. Sure, there are exceptions, but most of us have to work at maintaining desire, especially as we get older and hormone levels drop. Add to that all the complexities of a relationship, work, kids, etc., and it's a wonder we manage any kind of regular sex life at all. And then there are people who are mismatched as a couple, or naturally have high or low drives even with normal hormonal levels, etc., etc. - but no matter how well matched you are sexually, if you don't treat each other in the ways each wants to be treated, then distance - and perhaps resentment - grows.

My first marriage was a disaster sexually. This one is not - it's about as good as it gets, even after 17 years. I didn't change much from that relationship to this one, but the relationships are totally different. It's hard - maybe impossible - to say why they're different, but I think that this wife is innately more sexual, we're fundamentally more compatible, and mutually into each other - and work hard to preserve that. My ex and I tried too, but nothing created the right response that we each needed. At some point, it may be best to recognize that things won't work, and cut your losses. At that point it becomes easier to start fresh with someone new - at least that's what worked for me.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

mary35 said:


> So my question is to you men. If you feel it is also your wife's responsibility to make your marriage happy and healthy, why are you not holding her feet to the fire, calling her out when she does not do her part - and being honest enough to tell her the truth about what she is doing to your love and devotion to her and how it is hurting your marriage and may destroy it in the long run? Why do you jump through her hoops, making it your responsibility to fix everything, instead of facing this issue head on with her, clearly laying out what you want and need from her and then holding her accountable for her part?
> 
> Oh - yeah! Its that pesty hormone called testosterone at work again, making you overlook negative things about her!! You know you can use that testosterone to turn things around too! You just have to learn to harness it and channel it in the right way!! Take back your power over YOUR own life and use it wisely.


Well, you know hindsight is 20/20...

Didn't realize at the time that at least 1/2 the stuff coming out of her mouth was total BS or redirection. Add to that, in verbal confrontation between an average guy and an average girl the guy is totally over matched. We've described the problem in a sentence and a half, she's got twenty minutes worth of explanation as to why you're unreasonable and an ignorant oaf. Besides which, I'm not a particularly confrontational guy. If I'm going to rev up for that type of fight then out the door has to be an option and I was never up for that judicial **** over. 

Now, with 20 years of history I can see that not having a few knock down drag outs over the issue was a mistake.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

mary35 said:


> So my question is to you men. If you feel it is also your wife's responsibility to make your marriage happy and healthy, why are you not holding her feet to the fire, calling her out when she does not do her part - and being honest enough to tell her the truth about what she is doing to your love and devotion to her and how it is hurting your marriage and may destroy it in the long run? Why do you jump through her hoops, making it your responsibility to fix everything, instead of facing this issue head on with her, clearly laying out what you want and need from her and then holding her accountable for her part?
> 
> Oh - yeah! Its that pesty hormone called testosterone at work again, making you overlook negative things about her!! You know you can use that testosterone to turn things around too! You just have to learn to harness it and channel it in the right way!! Take back your power over YOUR own life and use it wisely.


This is pretty much where I personally am at although it is a teeter totter between do I jump thru the hoops or not. I'll tell you from at least my point of view, the reason that I would jump thru the hoops instead of rocking the boat is because I didn't want to destroy the chance of the possible sex that I might get if I did everything right and happened to pick the right moment to pounce. I can either...

A) Do everything I can to not rock the boat and maybe I'd get some duty sex which was great for the physical release but, as you stated before, did nothing to really satisfy my emotional needs or 
B) Take the chance on trashing the chance of any kind of sex, stand up and do what @mary35 suggested

Typically, in my situation, I would chose B because I was sick of jumping thru the hoops. I would talk with her about it and several times the conversations went ok but only once did it actually lead to sex. All other times, sex was out of the question after that. Talking to her about how I needed her to do more for me or letting her know that I wasn't feeling fulfilled, no mater how tactfully I put it almost always led to tears on her part because the knowledge that I wasn't fulfilled was so painful to her. I was always making her sad and she felt so bad because of what I had just told her. The more I tried to talk about it, the worse it got. Because now add the fact that I'm adding pressure to the mix, even though I wasn't making any actual demands of her. I was just asking for her to work on it with me. In short, instead of hearing what I was telling her and realizing there was a problem I needed her to work on, she was only focusing on how what I was telling her was making her feel. Essentially deflecting the whole conversation and turning it around. With those kinds of results, option A begins to look a helluva lot more acceptable and I did fall back into that for a little while.

Instead after reading a ton here and listening to your guys comments and I am going with option C. I play the part of not caring about sex. I do not talk to her about it. I've tried that, it got me no where. I'm no longer jumping thru the hoops either. Of course I still treat her exactly as I would before. I'm still giving her what she needs because I'm not going to be that guy that dangles the reward because it's not one. It's the treatment my wife deserves regardless but I'm not going out of my way. She told me once that the only thing that ever truly scared her was when I stopped asking for sex. So it's time to scare her. It goes against every fiber of my being to go this route because this is not who I am. But even though I mean what I say about the treatment she gets is deserved and not a reward, it's beginning to cause resentment.

I've been doing this for about 2 weeks now with some definite success or pure blind luck. I haven't decided on which yet. Either way, we were intimate several times this last weekend which hasn't happened for a very long time.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

turnera said:


> Why do they not work on this? Because you're asking her to change her BRAIN, her feelings, her desires. You're asking her to become someone else. That would be like, I don't know, her telling you that for her to be happy, you'd have to start reading - and enjoying - romance novels.


Not exactly... we are not asking them to do something they've never done or never liked before. We are asking them to re-engage with us and become some semblance of the sexual being that they once were. Just like a woman might ask a man to re-engage and become attentive and present in the relationship again (among other sins we may commit). I understand that there are a lot of things that have to do with the hormones and other biological issues at play here as well but out of myself and the other 2 guys that have posted their current problems on here, I dont think any of us expect a 100% return to how things used to be. Nor do we expect it to switch back on like a light bulb. Me personally, all I expect is that she be actively working on it. People have all kinds of problems for all kinds of reasons. It's not the fact that there is a problem that is the real issue. It's the fact that the person with the problem is typically doing very little if anything to attempt to solve it.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

spawn2031 said:


> She told me once that the only thing that ever truly scared her was when I stopped asking for sex. So it's time to scare her. It goes against every fiber of my being to go this route because this is not who I am. But even though I mean what I say about the treatment she gets is deserved and not a reward, it's beginning to cause resentment.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 2 weeks now with some definite success or pure blind luck. I haven't decided on which yet. Either way, we were intimate several times this last weekend which hasn't happened for a very long time.


She is operating under the myth of the magic vagina, when you stopped asking she was worried she had lost her magic powers. All well and good if it works but for many women it may be several months before she notices. 

Do not expect any one approach to work for long, do not reject Tunera's suggestions, and do not shy away from making her uncomfortable from time to time. Always be ready to occasionally respond to one of her challenges with a "you know it's a two way street?" Or even let her know she is a special women but there is nothing special about her particular vagina >


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

anonmd said:


> Or even let her know she is a special women but there is nothing special about her particular vagina >


LMAO!! Oh wow. Even the insinuation of cheating or leaving her would have disastrous re precautions. As much as I see the intent of a comment like that I'm quite positive it would the exact opposite of the desired effect.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

So you are only willing to make her wonder by innuendo? Will not work long term. 

Now, it needs to be at the right time, in the right mood, in a playful manner perhaps - not in the middle of an argument for instance. You must work your way out of *****whipped .


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

anonmd said:


> So you are only willing to make her wonder by innuendo? Will not work long term.
> 
> Now, it needs to be at the right time, in the right mood, in a playful manner perhaps - not in the middle of an argument for instance. You must work your way out of *****whipped .


Perhaps it could work in a situation like that. But, bottom line, divorce isn't an option for me. I dont see this as a divorceable offense, at least not while there are 2 little ones involved. I care more for them being brought up right and having a complete family than I do myself.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

Spawn, I too am going to refrain from initiating duty sex any longer. It makes me feel like **** when she does it. To reach out and embrace your wife sexually, and feel nothing but a cold, unresponsive body in return is an incredibly demeaning experience. My wife doesn't want to make love to me... she is offering herself to me so that I can get off, and thus "fulfilling" my need for sex, and her "fulfilling" her duty as my wife. She doesn't have to live with being one of "those wives" that never put out, while not enjoying the sex for herself. She doesn't understand why I don't find this particularly enjoyable. So I'm just going to stop asking. I have no desire to have that kind of sex anymore... I have more intimate experiences with my right hand. 

It's not about having a checklist of sexual acts that my wife must perform in order for me to have the kind of sex I want. It really is just about experiencing mutual intimacy... something our sex life severely lacks... for me. She could care less, and quite frankly I think she's mustering up about as much as she can to give me the duty sex.

Dad Starting Over, I just started reading your blog. Amazing stuff! The line "She's just not that into you" really shot through to my core. It's absolutely true. My wife is only 31... her sex drive didn't disappear. Her body still works the way it's supposed to... I'm just getting her there. I'm 35 now, I was 24 when she fell in love with me. A LOT has changed since then, and not all of it for the better. I totally identify with you as having lost sight of the charismatic, better looking young man I used to be. In many ways, I had my **** together more back then than I do now. Then again, the weight of the world hadn't yet crashed down on me. I need to rise up and get myself back there! Self improvement on my part is the only chance our sex life has. But I need to work on myself for me, not to get my wife's sex drive going again. Though I'm fairly certain my wife hasn't cheated on me, I am certain that if we continue down this path, the possibility grows.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

You are doomed until you realize your power. I'm assuming she actually loves you and wants to be married of course.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

spawn2031 said:


> Not exactly... we are not asking them to do something they've never done or never liked before. We are asking them to re-engage with us and become some semblance of the sexual being that they once were. Just like a woman might ask a man to re-engage and become attentive and present in the relationship again (among other sins we may commit). I understand that there are a lot of things that have to do with the hormones and other biological issues at play here as well but out of myself and the other 2 guys that have posted their current problems on here, I dont think any of us expect a 100% return to how things used to be. Nor do we expect it to switch back on like a light bulb. Me personally, all I expect is that she be actively working on it. People have all kinds of problems for all kinds of reasons. It's not the fact that there is a problem that is the real issue. It's the fact that the person with the problem is typically doing very little if anything to attempt to solve it.


It's tough... you're asking them to WORK ON doing something that should come about naturally and spontaneously. If you were to ask her to just f'ing TELL YOU what to do do to get her motor going again, it wouldn't work. Why?

1. She can't verbalize it. Her vajayjay knows what it wants... and THIS ain't it right now. It has a mind of its own.

2. She DOES know, but she's not about to tell you because then that means you don't innately have the qualities she needs to be turned on. "Well if I told you then it wouldn't be REAL!" It would be a verfication that you are not the right man for the job. It's like a bricklayer showing up for work, grabbing tools and say "What the hell do I do with these?" Whoops.. gotta go hire another bricklayer.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

mary35 said:


> This!!!! But I agree with Spawn - women also need to take responsibility for doing this too. It is not only the husbands responsibility to nurture and keep their relationship hot to trot!!! Many men want to do things with their wives - but women worry about leaving their children with babysitters. What they don't understand is that healthy and happy husband/wife relationships are really good for children!!! Both need to work together to keep their relationship happy and healthy.


I agree. So what's missing, then, is THE CONVERSATION. The one in which he makes clear he won't stay in a dead marriage, so she can either put in as much effort as he is or prepare to be single. In a non-accusatory way, of course - in a team way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> My first marriage was a disaster sexually. This one is not - it's about as good as it gets, even after 17 years. I didn't change much from that relationship to this one, but the relationships are totally different. It's hard - maybe impossible - to say why they're different, but I think that this wife is innately more sexual, we're fundamentally more compatible, and mutually into each other - and work hard to preserve that. My ex and I tried too, but nothing created the right response that we each needed. At some point, it may be best to recognize that things won't work, and cut your losses. At that point it becomes easier to start fresh with someone new - at least that's what worked for me.


I'm a big believer in first marriages often being mistakes. You're young, you're stupid, you have no wisdom or experience, you let your other head do the thinking. Second marriages are often better; the only caveat is having to have blended families.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> Not exactly... we are not asking them to do something they've never done or never liked before. We are asking them to re-engage with us and become some semblance of the sexual being that they once were.


Which is it? They've never been a sexual being or they used to be a sexual being?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

spawn2031 said:


> I would talk with her about it and several times the conversations went ok but only once did it actually lead to sex. All other times, sex was out of the question after that. Talking to her about how I needed her to do more for me or letting her know that I wasn't feeling fulfilled, no mater how tactfully I put it almost always led to tears on her part because the knowledge that I wasn't fulfilled was so painful to her. I was always making her sad and she felt so bad because of what I had just told her. The more I tried to talk about it, the worse it got. Because now add the fact that I'm adding pressure to the mix, even though I wasn't making any actual demands of her. I was just asking for her to work on it with me. In short, instead of hearing what I was telling her and realizing there was a problem I needed her to work on, she was only focusing on how what I was telling her was making her feel.


Well of course it did. You didn't approach it as a team. You judged her and found her wanting. You said she was a b&tch. 

And you didn't do ANY of the stuff we've told you to do - change things up, take her breath away, go on dates, do new things, DATE HER.

Add to that being mysterious, not being needy, being ready to walk away from the marriage - all these things make you attractive and desirable. The whining husband is not attractive. The husband who's content to just be a house husband and a dad is not attractive. The man who wants those things but also EXPECTS great sex as a man, he's attractive. 

It's good that you told her how you felt. Maybe a little too whiny, but at least you were honest. Now let her see you detaching from her if she won't participate.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

turnera said:


> Well of course it did. You didn't approach it as a team. You judged her and found her wanting. You said she was a b&tch.
> 
> And you didn't do ANY of the stuff we've told you to do - change things up, take her breath away, go on dates, do new things, DATE HER.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you have said, these are things I need to remember in my own situation.

However, in many cases, date nights are not a possibility when you have very young kids. Mine and 4 and 5, and at this point the only people in their lives that will keep them overnight are my parents, and they are only willing to do so at best once every 2 months. They will occasionally watch them for a date night but we have to be done with the date by 10 or 11. When I become a grandparent, I am going to remember this, and volunteer to keep the grandkids at least 1 night per month so that their parents can have some much needed alone time.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

podiumboy said:


> I agree with everything you have said, these are things I need to remember in my own situation.
> 
> However, in many cases, date nights are not a possibility when you have very young kids. Mine and 4 and 5, and at this point the only people in their lives that will keep them overnight are my parents, and they are only willing to do so at best once every 2 months. They will occasionally watch them for a date night but we have to be done with the date by 10 or 11. When I become a grandparent, I am going to remember this, and volunteer to keep the grandkids at least 1 night per month so that their parents can have some much needed alone time.


Put them to bed, set up a gazebo or screen tent in the backyard, grab some wine, fruit, big pillows and a blanket to sit and cuddle on. 

Get to know parents in your area to swap babysitting with or get references for sitters.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've already advised setting up a babysitting co-op. Doesn't take any money, just a little of your time, and it allows you to have a special night every month. "I just can't do it" gives you exactly what you put out in energy: nothing.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

The babysitting co-op is a good idea, I'm gonna suggest that to my wife. (aka, coax her into thinking she came up with it on her own).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why can't you just be a man and tell her it's going to happen? Were you that weak when you were dating?


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

turnera said:


> Why can't you just be a man and tell her it's going to happen? Were you that weak when you were dating?


No I wasn't that weak. I was a self assured bad ass who didn't take any **** from anybody. In many ways, I had my **** more together when I was 23 and single than I do now at 35, married with children. I kinda miss that guy. 

That little quip at the end about making her think it was her idea was a little bit of a joke. But you're right, I do need to step up and start being more manly and assertive.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yep
Many women like when the man takes the lead when it comes to dates. Many of us hate the "whatever you want" "where do you want to go?"

Set up a date night, plan it. Buy flowers, set up the romantic getaway in the backyard. Don't tell her you are going to, just do it. 

We want you to want to. Setting it up and making the effort to plan it is already going to impress her. We love effort and thought

Bonus points on that outdoor date - blindfold her when you take her out to it. Have flowers and a romantic set up, a fire going if it's chilly. Make it a total surprise. 

You do need to get away from the house too but on weeks it's not an option, get creative.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

turnera said:


> Well of course it did. You didn't approach it as a team. You judged her and found her wanting. You said she was a b&tch.
> 
> And you didn't do ANY of the stuff we've told you to do - change things up, take her breath away, go on dates, do new things, DATE HER.
> 
> ...


All of that was past tense stuff. That was all prior to coming here. The lanes of communication about this have been open for about a year now and when we have talked about it, you have no idea how much care I take in choosing my words carefully so as not to come off as I am accusing her of anything but instead approaching it something that is good and needed for us both. I am fully aware of the fact that if you want someone to work on something, anything really, you can't come at them accusingly else that just puts them on the defensive. Anyway, that's all old news.

I agree with you about being whiny though. No mater what way I talked to her about it in the past, I always felt kind of whiny. Which is why I have stopped that all together. Besides, I have literally said all that could possibly be said anyway. Any further talks about it would be completely fruitless and seen as potentially begging which, of course... is not a turn on. The dates, omg the dates... you have no idea how much I wish that could happen more often. I wish you guys understood the difficulty of the area and situation we are in. For instance... we had a date night set up for this past Saturday night. Had it planned for literally a month. Call the sitter a week before to confirm times and stuff and .. oops sorry, I can't do it. That's the reliability of the ONLY sitter we have available to us. So whereas dates I completely agree are necessary and a sorely missed part, we are pretty much relegated to only back yard dates which we do pretty often actually. Typically once a week or more when she gets home, I'll have the hot tub ready to go with drinks or I'll have a fire going out back. So I do what I can with what we have available and am always looking for a way to do more.

What I have been doing lately (besides the not talking about it anymore, no longer asking for it instead of chasing her around like a puppy dog hopping for a handout) is trying to reclaim myself as was suggested elsewhere here. I used to play in a band and I was a lot more of a rocker all the way up until we had our kids. About a year back, I got together for a one night gig with some old friends and that was one of the last times I remember us having amazing sex. So, even though there is no way I could ever get back into a band again with time being what it is, I have been using my free time a lot more to go practice my ****. Especially when I find myself in times when I would have normally tried to pursue her. Trying to act and seem much more like my old self, which is really difficult because my life really is all about my kids now instead of chasing tail. Helluva teeter totter.

Anyway, this combined with the lack of me talking to her about it and no longer openly pursuing her seems to be working. We have actually been intimate quite a decent amount in the past 1.5 weeks. She even initiated once! I about fell over. Some of it has been duty sex and honestly, I dont mind some of it being that way. I read once before to not turn that down because it's a gift of love from your wife for her to do it when she doesn't want to. Just dont want ALL of it to be that way.

The one suggestion that I will not be doing however is being ready to walk away from the marriage. I'm not going to openly let her know that of course as I believe some fear of losing your significant other is healthy. It will take much more than this to make me be ready to break up my family and potentially damage my children. I'm not that selfish. After they are grown and if the problem still persists? Yeah at that time probably but I simply will not be doing that to my children. It's not all about me anymore.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Re- accepting duty sex as a gift

That would be very subjective to the person. 
For me, duty sex would be such a turn off that I'd hardly be able to look at him after. When I said "ok but quick" I meant "fine if it'll make you stop rubbing my leg but I hate it and I am losing respect for you" 

But just physically, sex when not turned on can be extremely unpleasant. Lube helps get it in but our vaginas soften and open when turned on, we get ready to accept what's getting shoved in there. Without that, it can be uncomfortable or just plain painful. 

Any negative experiences or feelings towards the sex you do have could hinder working towards good sex in the future. 

I'd make sure *every time* you did at least enough foreplay to prepare her body. Anything short of that I'd say no to personally.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh and to add, me saying I'm not in the mood and won't be able to get an O so don't bother with me meant "you didn't do anything during the day to make me turned on and excited to be sexual with you and now you want me to go from 0 to orgasm, it'll take too long and be way too much hassle" 

Foreplay starts during the day. Not once in bed. Always keep that in mind imo


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Re- accepting duty sex as a gift
> 
> That would be very subjective to the person.
> For me, duty sex would be such a turn off that I'd hardly be able to look at him after. When I said "ok but quick" I meant "fine if it'll make you stop rubbing my leg but I hate it and I am losing respect for you"
> ...


I do for certain. I am operating under the assumption that , even though she has said different and I've seen other women say different in here too, that the better it feels for her every time then the more she will want it. So even if I suspect it's duty sex I dont just go at it. I always take the time to try and warm her up. Hell even from a purely selfish perspective, it doesn't feel all that great to me either if she's not warmed up. Masturbation would feel better than that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

podiumboy said:


> No I wasn't that weak. I was a self assured bad ass who didn't take any **** from anybody. In many ways, I had my **** more together when I was 23 and single than I do now at 35, married with children. I kinda miss that guy.
> 
> That little quip at the end about making her think it was her idea was a little bit of a joke. But you're right, I do need to step up and start being more manly and assertive.


Then get him back. Start right now.

Many men fear going back to that guy...yet that is the very guy that not only their spouse misses, but the men themselves miss. 

We give up many of the things we love in an effort to please our families rather than finding balance between remaining ourselves and committing to our families. 

I would argue that finding that guy is worth the risk of losing the marriage. I would further argue that (in most cases) the risk to the marriage is greater when you continue as is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you read Married Man Sex Life Planner and No More Mr Nice Guy?


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

turnera said:


> Did you read Married Man Sex Life Planner and No More Mr Nice Guy?


I have not searched for the Sex Life Planner but I have started reading No More Mr Nice Guy and yeah, that one definitely did hit home so I am absorbing that one


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## ThaMatrix (Sep 3, 2017)

spawn2031 said:


> Hi guys, first post here and am glad I have found a place like this. I've been spinning my wheels searching the internet and reading every article I can on this, I wish I had thought of looking for a forum like this earlier. Anyway, so here's my issue.
> 
> First off, we have a 2 and a 3yr old, I work days and my wife stays at home with the kids and works p/t nights. My wife and I have sex 1-2 times a week usually. But the sex feels very 1 sided and not very satisfying mentally / emotionally. I always initiate, I am the only one engaging in any kind of foreplay (oral usually... when she lets me), and it's always quickies. This is an area that, thank god, she is not adverse to talking about and so thru many conversations, I have gleaned that sex is never on her mind and that many times when we do have sex, she is doing it just because she knows I need it. Of course, I love my wife even more knowing that she is being so selfless and getting it on just for my benefit but honestly, most the time it's about as satisfying as masturbation because there isn't any real engagement from her. I have a bit of a problem with not always lasting long enough for her to cum so, thinking that this might be a big part of the issue I asked her about letting me go down on her first. She has a hang up about being SUPER clean down there if I'm going to do anything like that, like I'm talking within an hour or so of showering, so that doesn't happen very often as you can imagine given our situation. I also brought up using a vibrator on her which we tried a couple of times with wonderful results. So the orgasm thing has a solution, or at least a couple of solutions that we can go for. Still, no change in her desire for sex. We've talked about it and talked about it, mostly with me finding things to try in articles, she says she's interested in trying them out but then nothing ever happens. It's always just the same. So what am I supposed to do here?
> 
> Part of me thinks I'm being an ass for wanting more from her when she already gives so much, but I can't help the feeling of not being fulfilled?. Am I right? Am I just being an unappreciative ass here and need to STFU? If not, what do I do? I'm afraid that I've talked to her about this so many times that I'm beginning to become a pest, which obviously will only make things worse. Part of me wants to just stop making advances at all and wait for her but damn, that's so hard to do. In reality it's not so much that I want MORE from her, I just want her to be as excited about sex with me as I am with her. I think if she was to regain that, everything would fall into place. Any suggestions?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

podiumboy said:


> No I wasn't that weak. I was a self assured bad ass who didn't take any **** from anybody. In many ways, I had my **** more together when I was 23 and single than I do now at 35, married with children. I kinda miss that guy.
> 
> That little quip at the end about making her think it was her idea was a little bit of a joke. * But you're right, I do need to step up and start being more manly and assertive.*


it is certainly worth a try. Not every woman responds positively to this, but some just want to be thrown on the bed and used by an alpha man. They will never admit it, but will orgasm over and over again when it is actually happening.

in other words, try to be more of an self centered *******! you will know right away if it is working of not


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