# Beta Male is just a Betrayed Husband in training



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.

This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.

It isn't that women are in the workplace that is causing the rise in female infidelity. It's that women in the workplace are seeing Alphas all day and coming home to a panty-folding Beta.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Maybe. Not in all cases. I was a walking , talking alpha d*ck.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

joe kidd said:


> Maybe. Not in all cases. I was a walking , talking alpha d*ck.


You only thought you were. A man acting Alpha is not an alpha.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> You only thought you were. A man acting Alpha is not an alpha.


No true Scotsman, eh? You are so wrong with your ideology post up there... but hey, I guess you'll learn in time.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> You only thought you were. A man acting Alpha is not an alpha.


Jesus. Carry on.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> You only thought you were. A man acting Alpha is not an alpha.


You act like an Alpha can't be cheated on. She can be jealous of the Alpha and cheat on him for that alone.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.

Could you be a little more narrow?

Career gal here married to a super nice man...I'd rather cut off a limb than betray him. 

But way to paint with the most broad brush you could find:smthumbup:


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I do not know.
you maybe right i thought i was an alpha in the beginning of our marriage but over time it has erroded, maybe i never was.

I guess betas can have alpha moments


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.
> 
> Could you be a little more narrow?
> 
> ...


So your telling me that you'd appreciate a nice and loving man more than a highly dominant and assertive Alpha of a man?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> So your telling me that you'd appreciate a nice and loving man more than a highly dominant and assertive Alpha of a man?


I had a high dominant and assertive Alpha of a man.It was like living in a nightmare.

The nice and loving man is the way to go for me.He's perfection


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.
> 
> Could you be a little more narrow?
> 
> ...


Broad brush? Was the pun intended? Alpha/Beta: a pos will cheat on either one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

It doesn't really have anything to do with the BS, does it? It comes down to the boundaries of the WS. My husband is a gun-toting, 6'1 federal agent. He's been to war. He's a pretty gruff guy. My EA wasn't really because he was too "alpha" or not "alpha" enough.

It came down to my lack of boundaries.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

I, personally, find this alpha vs beta subject to be a bunch of bullsh*t. It makes me think of the people who talk about social darwinism to justify their personal agenda.

My wife would have cheated on Atilla the Hun. She had issues from her childhood that colored her adult behavior. Cheaters are damaged people. They should not be used as a model of whether a man is an alpha male or a beta male. 

My wife's affair partner dodged me for a year. I was demanding a face to face apology. He refused and said I did not deserve one. I am a man who does not take no for an answer. Well, in front of his lawyer, his wife, the baillif, the court stenographer, the court audience and the judge; he cried and apologized to my face!!!!

So "F" this alpha vs beta sh*t.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustPuzzled said:


> I know a guy through business who is a total Alpha. Former professional athlete, always ahead of the curve on his career path, scratch golfer. When he was single he played the field like all get out. He was a BIG GUY in a BIG CITY. He is the very embodiment of a swaggering Alpha.
> 
> He finally got married and settled down. Two kids later his wife has an affair and takes off with OM.


She won! Just joking, but this is how they do it. He probably bleed down his Alpha, and niced up a bit for the wifey and fam, but she got excited by another Alpha who is moving up.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I pretty much concur with what has already been said. I think it comes down to the character traits of the WS more than the BS. That being said, I find beta males mostly repulsive and have a hard time being around them. I have seen the wives of betas disrespect them and walk away more often than to Alpha types.

Maybe beta characteristics are just an unattractive trait that push women away more often. Can't speak for women, but my wife and my best friend wife both love alphas, considerate, non ignorant alphas that is.
I think being engaged intimately with your wife would probably do the most good to diffuse a potential infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

cj9947 said:


> I, personally, find this alpha vs beta subject to be a bunch of bullsh*t. It makes me think of the people who talk about social darwinism to justify their personal agenda.
> 
> My wife would have cheated on Atilla the Hun. She had issues from her childhood that colored her adult behavior. Cheaters are damaged people. They should not be used as a model of whether a man is an alpha male or a beta male.
> 
> ...


I love your story man! I am the same way but my lady is no cheater.
Did you reconcile with WW or divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.
> 
> Could you be a little more narrow?
> 
> ...


<grin> Just because you are wiser than some women doesn't mean that some women don't act according to the stereotype.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe there is something to the alpha male attraction. But I also believe alpha's have to have some beta characteristics in order to have the best chance for a long relationship. Otherwise they are open to being cheated on as well.

But all beta; good luck. See promisekeeper's thread for an example. It's hard to read.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I don't believe it. I can see the thought process, but still don't believe it.
If the man were so Alpha as is expected wouldn't he then be a cheater in training by the same proposed theory, as the truly burly Alphas are pruned and expected to be players at heart, right?


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

The word "nice" is too vague in describing someone in the principle suggested. I tend think of more definitive terms, confident, person of his/words and convictions, willing to admit wrongs but strong in standing behind his/her principles. I just don't equate nice as the same as weak. Kanaka Maoli (native Hawaiians) live by the principles of Aloha (by some could be consider a nice term), but one should never assume Aloha implies weakness (we come from a warrior class - controlled power). So the term nice to me just has a poor definition in this context.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I think some of the women her assume an alpha is an a hole. An Alpha can be a nice guy. He is a take charge guy and demands respect. He sets boundaries and respects them as well.

Beta's are being confused, nice is misunderstood for lazy or laid back with boundaries and respect.

I am not saying an alpha will no be cheated on but it is less likely then someone that beta and a doormat


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

My 2 cents ...

I don't think Inland is that off. A "beta-ish" is doomed to be betrayed ... IF ... he hooks up with the wrong type of woman. I think the beta-type males simply have a higher probability of being cheated on .. MUCH higher.

However, it's also true that an alpha-type can be cheated on as well .. if he hooks up with a serial cheat for example. 

In the end, it can happen to any of us.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.
> 
> This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.
> 
> It isn't that women are in the workplace that is causing the rise in female infidelity. It's that women in the workplace are seeing Alphas all day and coming home to a panty-folding Beta.


OK, so if you are an alpha, you aren't going to be divorced is that your reasoning here?

And Arnold Schwarzenegger is divorced why then?


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I don't know about all this alpha/beta stuff.

But I know one thing,
honor, honesty, and loyalty are devastatingly attractive character traits in a man.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I think the initial poster is confusing attraction and long term sustainability. What women are attracted to in the moment, is not necessarily what they will find appealing in the long term. And many women are in touch enough with their emotions to know the difference.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

No what I'm saying is that if you read a few of these BH posts, you see a common problem: PASSIVITY. WEAKNESS. ACQUIESCENCE.

I am not saying a man needs to be a knuckle-dragging misogynist so perhaps I didn't clearly make my case.

A man needs a blend of Alpha and Beta traits to be both initially attractive AND able to bond long-term. This is about being the right mix. Being Nice with an Edge.

I am saying that a thoroughly Beta male is not going to hold his wife's interest or attraction long-term.

But interesting to see the passionate reactions. Regardless of which way we individually believe, there sure seem to be strong reactions to the notion that men in general need to "man up".


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

You are screwing the data. The men in these posts are post-betrayal. They are in shock.

That's hardly an adequate sample to compare to more assertive men who aren't wrestling with infidelity right now.

You compare assertive men in general to men who have recently betrayed by their spouses and think that's a fair comparison?

Hardly.

Do you know what a statistically random sample is?


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> You are screwing the data. The men in these posts are post-betrayal. They are in shock.
> 
> That's hardly an adequate sample to compare to more assertive men who aren't wrestling with infidelity right now.
> 
> ...


Of course, and knock off the condescension. I've been reading and posting for the better part of two years, and there are dozens and dozens of BH's here who fall into the Extreme Beta category. In fact, the surprisingly together, "Alpha" BH's lately have all turned out to be troll posts.

I am making a general observation, not a scientific conclusion.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.
> 
> Could you be a little more narrow?
> 
> ...


Why are you assuming I mean disrespect of women if I assert that men need to respect themselves more?

Why in the world would you assume that to have stronger men we MUST have weaker women? That's nonsense.

How enlightened of you.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

convert said:


> I do not know.
> you maybe right i thought i was an alpha in the beginning of our marriage but over time it has erroded, maybe i never was.
> 
> I guess betas can have alpha moments


This was certainly my case. As the marriage progressed and I got comfortable in it, I grew really soft and passive. I indict myself when I indict other men, people. I went Beta almost subconsciously.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> OK, so if you are an alpha, you aren't going to be divorced is that your reasoning here?
> 
> And Arnold Schwarzenegger is divorced why then?


Because he cheated on his wife.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Laughable.

"Become an alpha male and your wife won't cheat on you" - lol.

Your spouse does not choose to betray you solely based where you stand in the socio-sexual hierarchy...

Case in point...

If I were more "beta" and met my (x)wifes needs rather than thinking about myself (in true Alpha fashion) all the time she may not have cheated on, and subsequently left me for a big time "beta" who fawned over her night and day.

There is not a person on this planet that with say my XW's AP is higher on the Alpha chain than I am.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> ... the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.


I would think the main propellant of female infidelity would be the female's choice to cheat on their partner.

Might some women find beta males unattractive relative to the alpha male?

Yes, some might, the ones with less forethought, less maturity, and less respect for themselves.

But finding an alpha male attractive and throwing your marriage to risk for an affair are different things here.

What makes women risk marriage, family, home, security?

I would think that would be their own developmental maturity levels and inability to make healthy choices for themselves under stress.

The fact that some men in the moment may appear weaker... really? That's the main thing to bring about female infidelity?

Not likely...

What might be interesting to explore is the females changing perception of their spouse as the marriage progresses.

You may find that a lot of women begin to view their male spouse as less masculine. Not that the male is emasculated in marriage, or that he is less masculine, but the female's perception may change over time if their emotional/maturity development does not progress beyond that of a teenager.

If a female with a teenage maturity level gets married, and as years progress, she does not develop beyond that. I can most certainly understand how that female may perceive her husband as less masculine. I could also understand how women in that situation might resort to infidelity as a relationship management strategy.

Not that infidelity is at all effective as a strategy, but someone with a teenage mentality might act on that.

And I don' doubt there are some men on this forum dealing with this sort of situation.

But to suggest men themselves are not alpha enough?

Not likely no...


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

When I was beta I got stomped on. Now as an alpha it is my household and I am treated as the head of it. 

It's kinda sad when you look at it from afar but there is biology at work. A woman doesn't want a man to be soft and compromising.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> When I was beta I got stomped on. Now as an alpha it is my household and I am treated as the head of it.
> 
> It's kinda sad when you look at it from afar but there is biology at work. A woman doesn't want a man to be soft and compromising.


Agreed. Mine is vastly improved, too. My wife says she really wants me to be the Captain of the ship at home. She doesn't want to have to do it. I always tried to co-Captain, because I am attracted to strong women and really want her to be strong (take THAT, feminists). At work she has to be very Alpha, but at home, she said she wants to be second-in-command, not the one always calling the shots.

To the ire of some here, this alpha/beta stuff WORKS.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.


Not true man, we have a lot of betrayed Natural Alfas here in TAM, the most notable difference is how they react and how the WWs react after DD.

I can think in 3 cases here right now, Oldsmitten, Badblood, Rokie74. (I know there are more but this ones are the one I remember in just few seconds).

they are not afraid of confronting the OM and make them and their WWs suffer the consequences of their actions, they don't beg, don't cry, don't pled, their first reaction is kick out their WW and confront their OMs (so if you like the analogy, nobody mess in their territory). 

and of course the reaction of their WW is totally different for those of Beta males, the WW are the ones who beg for a second chances, begin on their own all the steps towards reconcilation, investigate how the heal their partners and how tio acchive forgivness.

I remember In love shack soffies case, where the husband burned the OM and and Soffie, and make them face consequences, and was stoic to soffies cries, and soffie admits how she feel so atracted and turned on of how her husband was managing the whole situation, while her Om was winning and ranting like a kid.

In these cases the alfas in short time begin to date other women to empower themselves which result in more begin and criying form their WW.

so no, alfas can also be betrayed but the difference is how their handle the whole thing (without even investigating about 180), and yes this proves that alfa behaviour attrack women but don't make it inmune to infidelity.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

"Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say, 
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away; 
But when hunter meets with husbands, each confirms the other's tale— 
The female of the species is more deadly than the male. 

Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,— 
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise. 
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact 
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act. 

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low, 
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe. 
Mirth obscene diverts his anger—Doubt and Pity oft perplex 
Him in dealing with an issue—to the scandal of The Sex! 

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame 
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same; 
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail, 
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male."

*Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)* from "_The Female of the Species_"

I've had my 14 year old son read the (entire) poem and discussed the central tenet at length with him. 

'always loved Kipling. I think he bullseyed it here.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Agreed, alphas can be cheated on, and yes, it has a LOT to do with the character of the wife. I'm in agreement.

Can we, though, make the assertion from our experiences here that strong beta traits at least increase the likelihood of infidelity in the marriage?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't think that generalization is true because in the end it all depends on who your married too: a decent human being or a lying, cheating sack of sh1t. I do think your odds of being cheated on could be somewhat higher for a beta male and certainly the odds are strong that a beta male will mishandle the situation after the cheating occurs.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I concur wiht Middleman, see I in the past give a lot of thought about what you are saying, and maybe beta traits does increment the odds, but I don't think is a determinant factor.

I mean if you are beta, let your wife go GNO constantly while you take care of the kids and never complain if she comes home drunk, well, of course you are letting the circumstances for infidelity to pile up, but we can't asume that every women who goes to GNO end cheating on her husband.

I guess you asume this taking in consideration that most posts of betrayed husbands here are from beta bahaviour males but take in consideration that alfas don't came to forums looking how to recuperate their WW or how to break the fog, most alfa males that come here are for subjects related to the aftermath, examples:

- Rookie came almost 1 1/2 year later after her problem because all his family was pressuring him to return with his exwife and he already had a girlfriend at the time.
- Oldsmitten came because her wife suffered a mental breakdown because he did not want to take her back, so he still wanted to end everything with out hurting her more.
- Badblood came because he wanted to know if R was posible even if he did not had feelings for her WW anymore because all the family was pressuring him also (he wnted to know if feelings retunr eventually)

In all cases the infidelity problem was solved by their own methods, and they were concerned by other matters, while in betas case they come while they are still in the problema and look advices of how to handle the whole situation (becuase sometimes they don't even know how the affair began)


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.
> 
> This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.
> 
> It isn't that women are in the workplace that is causing the rise in female infidelity. It's that women in the workplace are seeing Alphas all day and coming home to a panty-folding Beta.


More "retarded" alpha/beta talk huh? Whatever


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't know about the alpha, beta, delta thing. I don't. I think your either attractive and got game or you don't. Does that make you alpha? I don't know. 

The term alpha as it's applied to humans, was first used by the Romans in the military legions. It was for the top fighters. The hunters of men.

I don't know about the Alpha, beta, delta thing as it's applied to modern human society. I really think you either got game or you don't. In terms of attitude or the "doormat" "beta" guys. I think that stems from co-dependency and lack of true self confidence. 

I think having self confidence and being independent doesn't make you an alpha or whatvever. I think it makes you- Self Confident and independent. 

I don't know if having so many sexual partners makes you an alpha. I think my number is aroud 60 or 70 or so. And according to that, I'm like a super elite flesh eating bad ass "alpha dog" brah, lulz. 

But come on, I just got game and stuff and I'm incredibly good looking. I'm not an alpha. 

And also, why would you want to the "alpha" dog? They always get killed and stuff.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I can only speak from my own experience and what I have read here over the past two years.

When I met my wife I was very confident and upwardly mobile and very ambitious and my wife was a SAHM with two kids. 15 years later she gets her degree and fast tracks at her job. I start a business and eventually get killed in the recession.

I consult and work from home and eventually the sex slows down to a fraction of what it was. She speaks to me with contempt and disdain. It took me a couple of years to figure out what was going on but she had lost respect for me and I am quite confident she had an EA. 

Things are better now but it is a constant battle with her to maintain a alpha role at home. Just last week we went to a restaurant and she ordered for me which does not seem like a big deal but the waiter pretty much deferred to her the rest of the evening. It was interesting. I told her nicely not to do that again. She shrugged it off. We shall see what happens. She is constantly testing me. 

I lean toward sharing Island's theory based on my own experiences.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

RClawson said:


> I can only speak from my own experience and what I have read here over the past two years.
> 
> When I met my wife I was very confident and upwardly mobile and very ambitious and my wife was a SAHM with two kids. 15 years later she gets her degree and fast tracks at her job. I start a business and eventually get killed in the recession.
> 
> ...


So test her back, and get some other female attention. Then bend her little a$$ over the kitchen counter and give it to her good. 

I can guarantee that other sh!t will stop. 

And just start doing things. Like, don't ask for her approval, just start doing whatever, whenever you want. 

Did you rugsweep the EA? Cause it sound like you may have.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I will concede that there are people that are more charismatic for one reason or another. But I honestly never heard of the whole Alpha/Beta thing until I discovered TAM. I still don't buy it. I know plenty of of overweight short nonathletic men that are happily married.

Its all really up to the woman you married. If she has no problem with cheating its likely to happen. Why can't people just accept that the partner they chose was a selfish no good person. For some reason most BS's look internally. It doesn't help that most WS's make up random reasons for what they did.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ReformedHubby said:


> I will concede that there are people that are more charismatic for one reason or another. But I honestly never heard of the whole Alpha/Beta thing until I discovered TAM. I still don't buy it. I know plenty of of overweight short nonathletic men that are happily married.
> 
> Its all really up to the woman you married. If she has no problem with cheating its likely to happen. Why can't people just accept that the partner they chose was a selfish no good person. For some reason most BS's look internally. It doesn't help that most WS's make up random reasons for what they did.


The Beta Male title caught my eyes.. I , too, never heard of these terms, upon discovery of them here on this forum... I realized my husband is tipped higher in BETA over ALPHA...(not all Beta is bad -it just gets a bad rap- a man needs a balance of BOTH.... this is not talked about enough...and people get the wrong idea....Me personally...I cared more about finding the "Family man" type...not the overconfident Power hungry stud who banged a pile of women..I'd spit him [email protected]#$ 

This explains it well.... 



> The *Alpha Traits* are those associated with classic “manly man” strengths. Power, dominance, physical ability, bravery, wealth, cool and confidence. Oh and good genes. These are the things that attract women and turn them on sexually. The Alpha Traits are linked to the dopamine response in women.
> 
> *Alpha *= attraction building = Dopamine = In Love = Excitement





> The *Beta Traits* are those associated with the strengths of being a nice guy / “family man”. Kindness, being a good listener, the ability to help with the children, dependability, thoughtfulness, compassion and patience. These all create a sense of comfort and safety for the woman, and relax her because she feels that if she became pregnant, the Beta Trait male isn’t going to abandon her and the baby.
> 
> *Beta *= comfort building = Oxytocin / Vasopressin = Pair Bond = Calm Enjoyment"


So Alpha Traits create attraction and that “in love” feeling, and Beta Traits create the pair bond and makes her feel relaxed enough to have sex. You need a balance of both Alpha and Beta in a marriage to maximize her desire to have sex with you.

I too, agree with ReformedHubby...much of this depends on who the man marries... what kind of character the women has... there are some things my husband needed to step UP in..... he was too passive in our past to his own needs...... I didn't loose attraction.. I worked with him.. I bought the Book "*No more Mr Nice Guy"*... I read, we talked..we established some of where he was missing it..... it happens... I have my faults too...so what...we work with each other...and Love prevails when you come together... not hiding , going behind the others back....



> *TheFlood117 said*: *I don't know about the Alpha, beta, delta thing as it's applied to modern human society*. I really think you either got game or you don't. In terms of attitude or the "doormat" "beta" guys. I think that stems from co-dependency and lack of true self confidence.


For the whole breakdown >>



> *Delta Males*: These kind of guys put off a good front of acting like they're "Alpha males" by conforming into whatever is fashionable and admired by the masses. Most of these men (if you can call them that) need a lot of assurance by society to the point of having little backbone to think for themselves. Sure, many Delta males are surrounded by "friends" and are good at get their fair share of girls by "wooing" them with some pop-culture nonsense (whether it's A&F-style gauche preppiness or poser hip-hop wannabe thuggishness), but that crowd and attention is more imperative for their self-esteem than anything else. For if you take away all of the girls from them and get these same males by themselves, a Delta male's personality completely changes and their "true self" is revealed. Many of these kind of guys are rather weak-minded, crowd-pleasing, conformists who aren't even worthy of the name "Covert Betas" and "Betas in the Closet."





> *Gamma Males*: These kind of dudes are more or less self-reliant, self-motivated, and self-assured in their own personality that no one can change their ways. Some of these kind of males are considered loners, but this is not to case for all Gamma Males. Because of their stern personality, many people tend to write off these men as "Betas" by default because they won't conform to being whatever "Chic Alpha" trait exists during that time period.
> 
> The man who's confident in his own self-worth and looks is said to go a long way with what women want. But as for recent times (I'll say since the early 2000s), most females are more impressed with being "wooed" with inane attributes, something that most Gamma males will refuse to do unless their original personality is what woos the female. These men, until recently, have had no problems getting with "American females" but recently, even these males are getting thrown in the "weak male" shelf because of their lack of conforming to the masses.
> 
> Though getting women - even in today's time - isn't as much of a problem as it is for the "stereotypical Alpha Male," this is still a concern for quite a few Gamma males who were either born too recent (those in their teens and twenties) or those who live in areas where narcissism and American pop-culture rule the minds of the masses.





> *Lambdas* - the gays. They have their own social hierarchy. They can fill any role from Alpha to Omega, but they tend to play the part rather than actually be it because the heterosexual social construct only encompasses the public part of their lives. Example: Neil Patrick Harris. Suggestion: Straights will be more tolerant if you keep the bathhouse behavior behind closed doors.





> *Sigmas* - the lone wolves. Occasionally mistaken for Alphas, particularly by women and Alphas, they are not leaders and will actively resist the attempt of others to draft them. Alphas instinctively view them as challenges and either dislike or warily respect them. Some Deltas and most Omegas fancy themselves Sigmas, but the true Sigma's withdrawal from the pack is not a reaction to the way he is treated, it is pure instinct. Example: Clint Eastwood's movie persona. Suggestion: Entertain the possibility that other people are not always Hell. The banal idiocy is incidental, it's not intentional torture.





> *Omegas* - the losers. Even the Gamma males despise them. That which doesn't kill them can make them stronger, but most never surmount the desperate need to belong caused by their social rejection. Omegas can be the most dangerous of men because the pain of their constant rejection renders the suffering of others completely meaningless in their eyes. Omegas tend to cluster in defensive groups; the dividing line between the Omega and the Sigma is twofold and can be easily recognized by a) the behavior of male Betas and Deltas and b) the behavior of women. Women tend to find outliers attractive in general, but while they respond to Sigmas almost as strongly as they do to Alphas, they correctly find Omega males creepier and much scarier than Gamma males. Example: Eric Harris Suggestion: Your rejection isn't entirely personal. Observe the difference in your own behavior and the way the Betas act. And try not to start off conversations with women by sharing "interesting facts" with them.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The Beta Male title caught my eyes.. I , too, never heard of these terms, upon discovery of them here on this forum... I realized my husband is tipped higher in BETA over ALPHA...(not all Beta is bad -it just gets a bad rap- a man needs a balance of BOTH.... this is not talked about enough...and people get the wrong idea....Me personally...I cared more about finding the "Family man" type...not the overconfident Power hungry stud who banged a pile of women..I'd spit him [email protected]#$
> 
> This explains it well....
> 
> ...


It does explain the different male types well but honestly I still don't know what I am. I guess my preference is that men just be themselves and find someone who appreciates them for who they are. Even if you can temporarily "alpha up" if its not who you really are I don't think its sustainable.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, *but my time here *(as well as my own experience with infidelity) *leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male*.


I don't know if the too-nice guy is more likely to be cheated on, but I do know that they have a much tougher time coming to a resolution once they discover it. 

Guys with a healthy amount of self-confidence and self-respect get to the "my way or the highway" approach with their cheaters pretty quickly, if not immediately. The situation resolves quickly, either in reconciliation or divorce. 

It does seem like a lot of guys who post here are so desperate to save their marriages that they will put up with just about anything their cheater does; there is almost no transgression bad enough for them to divorce. The situation drags out seemingly forever, and they post updates nine months later and they're still in basically the same situation, stuck somewhere in the purgatory between marriage and divorce.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You act like an Alpha can't be cheated on. She can be jealous of the Alpha and cheat on him for that alone.


Alpha attracts for short term.
Beta holds her heart. 

Too much of either increases probabilities of cheating.

The wives of pure alphas often cheat with... betas to get their soft needs met.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

TheFlood117 said:


> So test her back, and get some other female attention. Then bend her little a$$ over the kitchen counter and give it to her good.
> 
> I can guarantee that other sh!t will stop.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bro but I am past Becoming Alpha 1A.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ReformedHubby said:


> It does explain the different male types well but honestly I still don't know what I am. * I guess my preference is that men just be themselves and find someone who appreciates them for who they are. Even if you can temporarily "alpha up" if its not who you really are I don't think its sustainable.*


MY husband struggles to be alpha in a few small ways ... I've had to accept him the way HE IS... it's pretty easy, cause the scale of *Good* vs *"he could step it up".*...the Good has weights on it...

I've been on TAM for 4 yrs...re posting the BEST post I've ever read -explaining this balance in a man....how a man needs Both -to a nice degree.....











Entropy3000 said:


> Pure Alpha males are not leaders. Pure Beta men are not leaders. It takes a balance of the positive qualities to be a leader. There pure extremes will not occur in nature but it is a sliding scale.
> 
> The confusion is when folks want to view Alpha as superior to Beta and so on as a scale of a quality man and that is not what it is about at all. In fact magnitude comes into play as well. You can have two fairly balanced men with one of them posessing high Alpha and High Beta traits while the other posesses lower Alpha and lower Beta traits. They both have a balance but they are very different people.
> 
> ...





> *Another Planet said*: My wife cheated on me with a fat hairy dude that lets his wife run ALLLLL over him. He has some alpha characteristics I guess like he's really into sports and he is a social butterfly. He works at a factory making $10 an hour...*I have emails between my wife and him discussing how mean his wife is and how my wife doesn't care how much money they have when they run away together, how they can be poor forever as long as they have each other 0_0*
> 
> I'm a lean mean fighting machine. In my younger years I practiced martial arts, boxing, and bodybuilding. When I started a family I traded those things for business and now I own multiple labor based businesses and was up until a few years ago before **** started really hitting the fan very successful.
> 
> Ask her about me and you would just get a laundry list of how big of a **** I was. *How demanding I was, how I expected so much, how much I neglected her, how I went fishing instead of sitting on the couch watching TV with her, how I went to deer camp for a week a year and left her alone, how I spent to much time working in the shop fixing equipment..... blah*


Another Planet...reading your comparisons here..I have some thoughts... Ok... #1 - your wife sounds like ME... I've never cared about how much $$ a man earns... I care far more about spending TIME with him... I am a Romantic at heart....

From the way she was describing you in this bottom paragraph, you sound as though you were too wrapped up in doing other things, and she was lonely, and yes...felt neglected, I am assuming she didn't feel all that loved by you...and less of a priority...she probably has "*TIME"* as one of her #1 Love languages...maybe "words of affirmation " also... 

You do sound much better looking than the man she cheated on .....however..when resentment sets in, when we feel our needs are not being met -for whatever reason...looks aren't enough to keep the flame alive... sounds you needed MORE BETA [email protected]#$%

I know of a couple, he was the big Football star in our high school.. HOT... they married...he treated her like crap... his JOB was always a priority...he just wasn't around much...we'd see them out, even we could see how condescending he treated her... her self esteem sunk... she met another man... didn't have a good job... Kind, loving... would do anything for her.. Overweight...not good looking at all.. but he had what her husband fell down on the Job with....he was KIND to her...he gave her his time... Yep...she cheated with him...

And they are divorced now....it's important to look deeper and engage her in her love languages so she feels loved...unless she is a narcissist and nothing quenches her...I mean this could be an issue too! 

My husband sucked at sports, he is on the quiet side, introverted, I am the social butterfly.... but what he's always given me was...his heart.. his time... and he is one devoted man to his family... those things hold far more weight with someone like myself... over a higher class lifestyle...and "Oh my man is so HOT, he races cars and slays dragons, he is successful"... 

I do feel most women are allured by all that ...but some of us just want to be best friends and feel "the romance"... we NEED so much Beta or it would all fall apart for us.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> More "retarded" alpha/beta talk huh? Whatever


You stay classy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I will concede that there are people that are more charismatic for one reason or another. But I honestly never heard of the whole Alpha/Beta thing until I discovered TAM. I still don't buy it. I know plenty of of overweight short nonathletic men that are happily married.
> 
> Its all really up to the woman you married. If she has no problem with cheating its likely to happen. Why can't people just accept that the partner they chose was a selfish no good person. For some reason most BS's look internally. It doesn't help that most WS's make up random reasons for what they did.


Yeah, but that selfish no good person. May not have been a selfish no good person with a high level Alpha, whose dominance and assertiveness really rubs most people the wrong way, might have pushed the right buttons on this WAS for them to "act right". They want to act right for someone they "respect", and they don't necessarily respect the one who takes care of them, but they do respect the one who will kick their a$$ or put them into their place.

Or the WAS may not have been a selfish no good person with another crook. Another selfish crook who treats the WAS like many would treat a prostititute. Since they don't put her on a pedastal, the WAS sees it as a level playing field.

Dysfunctional, I know, but this is how it is with some of these people.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The Beta Male title caught my eyes.. I , too, never heard of these terms, upon discovery of them here on this forum... I realized my husband is tipped higher in BETA over ALPHA...(not all Beta is bad -it just gets a bad rap- a man needs a balance of BOTH.... this is not talked about enough...and people get the wrong idea....Me personally...I cared more about finding the "Family man" type...not the overconfident Power hungry stud who banged a pile of women..I'd spit him [email protected]#$
> 
> This explains it well....
> 
> ...


The "in love" feeling is a heavy shot of lust, it's as powerful as cocaine. Being generous and good to someone isn't going to trigger this. It's about what mental wavelength you are on, and like were saying being on the Alpha wavelength usually generates this powerful lust.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

I tend to think that some people will stray in order to have their needs met.

I can see how a woman would be attracted to an Alpha even if she already with one.

Too many dam variables in play to narrow the possibilities down.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Maybe. Not in all cases. I was a walking , talking alpha d*ck.


Everyone is alpha on the internet.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> I don't know if the too-nice guy is more likely to be cheated on, but I do know that they have a much tougher time coming to a resolution once they discover it.
> 
> Guys with a healthy amount of self-confidence and self-respect get to the "my way or the highway" approach with their cheaters pretty quickly, if not immediately. The situation resolves quickly, either in reconciliation or divorce.
> 
> It does seem like a lot of guys who post here are so desperate to save their marriages that they will put up with just about anything their cheater does; there is almost no transgression bad enough for them to divorce. The situation drags out seemingly forever, and they post updates nine months later and they're still in basically the same situation, stuck somewhere in the purgatory between marriage and divorce.


I agree 100%, very well said.

The night I discovered my XW affair, the first thing I did the next morning was call my attorney to start the paperwork. I would have called that night, but it was well past business hours


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> I don't know about the alpha, beta, delta thing. I don't. I think your either attractive and got game or you don't. Does that make you alpha? I don't know.
> 
> The term alpha as it's applied to humans, was first used by the Romans in the military legions. It was for the top fighters. The hunters of men.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead::rofl::rofl:

Flood you honestly crack me up. I hope you honestly have half the game you claim to. Part of that game would be keeping some of the honesty you share with us under wraps.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

I found out about the affair after I filed for divorce, and her PA happened after I inhouse seperated from her. I lawyered up after I found out about the affair though, before that I was taking care off the legal stuff myself.

I am not disagreeing that Beta's get abused by their spouses more often. Just that I am definitely in the crowd of it doesn't really matter what you are if you have a cheater they will cheat on you. 
Bad people do bad things more often.


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## amr1977 (Mar 2, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.


I have known plenty of guys who were players and in great shape during their college days - anybody would quickly classify them as Alphas - but ten years later they looked like crap and had marriages which were just chugging along at best. Did they really become betas or did they just get lazy?

When a woman lets herself gain a bunch of weight and starts spending her time reading crappy pulp novels and screwing around on facebook, has she "gone beta" or did she just fall into complacency?  Taking things for granted - including your marriage - is simply human nature. Men do it. Women do it.

If you need to wrap this up in silly evopsych babble go ahead and knock yourself out, but I don't see any real value in doing so.



InlandTXMM said:


> This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.


What exactly does post-feminism mean to you? I read some current feminist blogs and I have never heard an actual modern feminist say anything like this about men. Most feminists are focused on gender equality and reducing violence against women.



InlandTXMM said:


> It's that women in the workplace are seeing Alphas all day and coming home to a panty-folding Beta.


Oh, come on, this just sounds like you are purposely trying to provoke male BS's. We all know that the relative attraction of the AP largely derives from sheer novelty and the fantasy aspect of having a romance sans stress over kids, finances, household issues, etc. These are powerful factors consistently cited by WS's and they have jack to do with the Alpha/Beta dichotomy.

My first ex cheated with an AP who was less attractive, less intelligent, and physically pathetic. His tactic was fawning all over her and whining to her about how his ex had completely broken his heart. This dude was a sadpanda and wasn't even in the same zip code as "alpha."


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Numbersixxx said:


> Everyone is alpha on the internet.


His wife is here on the forum too and pretty much agrees with that assessment.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If that truly is the case, then how would one logically explain the all-too-common occurrence of "alpha males" getting cheated on by their wives or significant others?*


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't think we can generalize infidelity like this. There are way to many variables.

What about the alpha guy that gets cheated on, and the OM is some sensitive nut less wounder?

I mean a big tough street fighter who bangs nails for a living gets screwed over by some POS OM with smaller penis and even gets anal cuz he's smaller? WTF is up with that?

But then again this same guy also gets screwed over by some phuck stick kid that has all day to lift weights and take sterroids while living in mommy and daddies basement.

I mean really....
Some sensitive nutless wonder gets anal from my old lady, or some big young meat head gets booze payed for by my old lady.

Its not use its the waywards.

In my case its the bete male that my old lady had more control over then she had over her alph husband. Hell if she wanted an alph male she already had that....it was the POS guys she could control that was Mrs. the guys thing.

There has to be some gredence to "they always affair down"?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I do loads of beta things.

Doesn't mean I'm some kind of pushover or that I'm going to stand idly by while someone makes a move on my wife.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *If that truly is the case, then how would one logically explain the all-too-common occurrence of "alpha males" getting cheated on by their wives or significant others?*


Maybe it's more that women who cheat are classified as alphas. For example, Clint Eastwood would be described as an alpha male. His last wife appears to be an alpha woman. Meets him through work activities (she was a journalist). Has that baby to remain forever tied to him. Has a reality show using her reflected fame as a platform. And CE doesn't like it, she screws him before he screws her by having an affair.

Would anyone describe any of the WWs that are at the center of some these threads as alpha whether or not the BH is alpha himself?

And what a W endi D eng? She had already broken up one marriage when she Murdoch. Broke up his current marriage. Now what's coming out is that Murdoch divorced her because he found out that she had way too much to do with Tony Blair without his knowing about it. Would we call Murdoch an alpha male?


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I love your story man! I am the same way but my lady is no cheater.
> Did you reconcile with WW or divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We tried the reconciliation "thing". Then one day I realized that our relationship/marriage (whatever you want to call) died the day she strayed. So it was divorce at first and then the the whole marriage experience was dead to me. I no longer even recoginize my relationship with her as a marriage anymore. I was "nightmared" not married.

"my lady is no cheater" - I used to say the same thing about my "lady". I have learned to keep an open mind and eye. I no longer project things I cannot prove or disprove on people. If I had to do it over I would say, "my lady APPEARS not to be a cheater". Keep your mind open so your eyes will stay open.


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## someone90 (May 31, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup,those dang wimmens need to be in that kitchen where they belong.
> 
> Could you be a little more narrow?
> 
> ...


It's not about being beta, but I'm sure most of them pick the type of woman that would walk all over them.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Because he cheated on his wife.


Not really. He cheated on his wife a lot. And she was most likely not Miss Snowwhite, either. The problem was that she was *publicly humiliated* by the exposure of Arnold Jr and Arnold banging the maid for years. Maria's a Kennedy for crying out loud.

He is an Alpha, in the true sense, though. Dark Triad and all.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Laughable.
> 
> "Become an alpha male and your wife won't cheat on you" - lol.


Who posted that? I must have missed it.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Your spouse does not choose to betray you solely based where you stand in the socio-sexual hierarchy...


Correct. Camelot and all that. All depends on the woman, the man, and the chance of getting away with it. All things being equal, though, the more sexually attractive male (however the woman in question measures that) is most likely to be the recipient of the goodies. And as we see around us everyday, the socio-sexual alphas do quite well. Especially when the competition is SAHD.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

badmemory said:


> I believe there is something to the alpha male attraction. But I also believe alpha's have to have some beta characteristics in order to have the best chance for a long relationship. Otherwise they are open to being cheated on as well.
> 
> But all beta; good luck. See promisekeeper's thread for an example. It's hard to read.


It's all about balance isn't it ?

The appropriate amount at the right time


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *If that truly is the case, then how would one logically explain the all-too-common occurrence of "alpha males" getting cheated on by their wives or significant others?*


Modern women tend to get fed up with pure Alphas. Some of them aren't willing to share their man with other women (other women are always a factor with sexual Alphas). I just don't understand these modern girls, but that's the way some of them are. Then others get tired of the Dark Triad and leave over that. 

So, after awhile they dump the Alpha and find a Delta/Herb to raise Al's kids. Then after a few years...the itch returns. Because 5 minutes of Alpha, beats 5 years of Beta/Delta. And that's to be savored for a lifetime (See: Mimi, Alford). Look how often Delta BH's on here find out their WW is banging her ********* (but alpha) ex. It's a stereotype.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Listen, I love arny as much as any young guy who grew up watching predator, T2, commando and all those cheezy action movies of the 80's-remember how cool action movies were back in the day. Now they're so serious and up their own a$$. 

Anyway's I don't think Govenator is an alpha male. Alpha males tend to lead other males into precarious situations like Battle or other chaotic events. I look at Arney and I see a movie star with a little ambition. But I don't see leadership qualities. I never look at guys like him and go-

"man I'd follow that dude into war or fire". 

I'd like to see Govenator attempt my job for a few hours. He'd probably sh!t himself numerous times, when he realized the fire is real and their is no degress or no chaperon or personal assistant to get him "Back to da choppa". 

Arney's just a good looking guy who's got fame and money. Therefore he gets women. Not really an alpha. I'd say his attitude is quite passive aggressive- well at least his political career was. 

And he is an "actor" so he likes to play pretend. Speaking of, his new movie about the DEA swat team or whatever looks pretty cool. I'll give it to him, the guy looks amazing for his age and all the blow and steroids he did. 

I like ole' Arney, he's cheating wasn't shocking nor does it change my attitude toward him. He's still the Terminator. Always will be.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Not really. He cheated on his wife a lot. And she was most likely not Miss Snowwhite, either. The problem was that she was *publicly humiliated* by the exposure of Arnold Jr and Arnold banging the maid for years. Maria's a Kennedy for crying out loud.
> 
> He is an Alpha, in the true sense, though. Dark Triad and all.


Right, it was going to be done - should be common sense.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TheFlood117 said:


> Listen, I love arny as much as any young guy her grew up watching predator, T2, commando and all those cheezy action movies of the 80's-remember how cool action movies were back in the day. Now they're so serious and up their own a$$.
> 
> Anyway's I don't think Govenator is an alpha male. Alpha males tend to lead other males into precarious situations like Battle or other chaotic events. I look at Arney and I see a movie star with a little ambition. But I don't see leadership qualities. I never look at guys like him and go-
> 
> ...


You're confusing social alpha (actually Arnold is one), with sexual alpha (he's that, too). Plenty of people are anxious to follow his training advice. However, look at Petreaus, for example. He's a social alpha (receives respect from other males) due to the four stars, but he's been revealed to be a sexual gamma, simultaneously. Then there are the Sigmas, sexual alphas with no traditional social standing or fan club.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Social Alpha? What's that? I think you either got it or you don't. Govenator is an icon and good looking guy, therefore he gets lots of women. Petreus just took the bait of a young hottie who is a bit crazy herself, and was probably dynamite in the sack. 

I still don't think having lots of women makes you an alpha. I just don't. I think Alpha males lead other males into dangerous situations. 

for example I think fireteam leaders of SEAL teams are probably the most alpha a man can get. True hunters of men. Typically these dudes are also physically in the top 3 percent of men to. Therefore in shear sexual attraction they separate themselves from the pack so to speak . And also they have the "it" factor in leadership. 

I do not see that type of leadership quality in Arney. Or any actor really, or any politician for that matter- Probably a big reason why this country (USA) is in such trouble. 

We are lead by a bunch of scrubs. 

I still like Arney. And come on. He's the Terminator!!! 

And he will be back.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

I got about 2 pages in a decided to stop reading this dribble. Alpha, Beta whatever.....I refuse to be consigned to your definitions.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TheFlood117 said:


> Social Alpha? What's that? I think you either got it or you don't. Govenator is an icon and good looking guy, therefore he gets lots of women.


Being serviced by an unending stream of women and exhibiting the Dark Triad traits, while maintaining a male following makes for a pure Alpha, socially and sexually. Arnold fits the bill stereotypically.

In the Chimpanzee world, the Alpha is the combat leader of the troop (social standing) and he gets all the poon (sexual). He's a Warrior King. In the chimp context they are one and the same. Theoretically, human males can have social Alpha standing (like the Pope) without having the Dark Triad traits and a line of groupies outside their door (renaissance popes notwithstanding) that are the hallmarks of the sexual alpha.



TheFlood117 said:


> Petreus just took the bait of a young hottie who is a bit crazy herself, and was probably dynamite in the sack.


Under no circumstances would I class LTC Broadwell as a young hottie, but I'm sure she's more than a bit crazy and she probably is dynamite in the sack. However, when these are your choices...









Now, I'm sure 



TheFlood117 said:


> I still don't think having lots of women makes you an alpha. I just don't. I think Alpha males lead other males into dangerous situations.


In the context of human female sexual attraction, which is the topic at hand, you don't need to know a stacking swivel from grazing fire to be an alpha. Being highly attractive to women is the very definition of sexual alpha.



TheFlood117 said:


> for example I think fireteam leaders of SEAL teams are probably the most alpha a man can get. True hunters of men. Typically these dudes are also physically in the top 3 percent of men to. Therefore in shear sexual attraction they separate themselves from the pack so to speak . And also they have the "it" factor in leadership.


Sexual attraction in the field? I've known guys who were outstanding soldiers who couldn't get laid in a korean *****house. It's not like the girls are going to along on a mission and get turned on by all the excellence in the field. The women are the one's who get to decide where the males fall on the sexual hierarchy. Now, among the male society, you bet those fire team leaders are alpha big time. Not necessarily so in the sexual contest.



TheFlood117 said:


> I do not see that type of leadership quality in Arney. Or any actor really, or any politician for that matter- Probably a big reason why this country (USA) is in such trouble.
> 
> We are lead by a bunch of scrubs.


Again, women get to decide who they are attracted to. 

As for the present state of the leadership, you are way correct.

I wonder if there is a connection between those two sentences.



TheFlood117 said:


> I still like Arney. And come on. He's the Terminator!!!
> 
> And he will be back.


Just as soon as the Dbol and Deca kick in.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Machiavelli your a Mack. As always spot on.
Doubt the Tman is taking Dbol anymore but I get what your saying.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Btw, being married is basically being beta by default. Unless you are a politician and need to maintain a public image for the dimwitted masses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tribesman (Aug 17, 2013)

Try being funny, charismatic, fun to be around, and not boring.

You won't get cheated on.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

tribesman said:


> *Try being funny, charismatic, fun to be around, and not boring.
> 
> You won't get cheated on.*


*Oh, really? There's plenty of heartbreaking stories within these TAM walls where "funny, charismatic, fun-to-be-around, and not-boring" folks have been summarily jilted ~perhaps because their WS's found someone else who they tended to favor even more emotionally and psychologically over their BS's, or maybe even less so. And some times just to get themselves out into the open market to experience a little "strange!"

Just please keep on reading the threads! *


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.


So, if we feminists are responsible for men being cheated on, who is responsible for women being cheated on?:scratchhead:


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

tribesman said:


> Try being funny, charismatic, fun to be around, and not boring.
> 
> You won't get cheated on.


Total BS, if only it were that easy. Lots of BS on here have plenty of people tell them they were and still are all of those things and still can't figure out how their WS would behave they way they did and cheat on them.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Why are you assuming I mean disrespect of women if I assert that men need to respect themselves more?
> 
> Why in the world would you assume that to have stronger men we MUST have weaker women? That's nonsense.
> 
> How enlightened of you.


Why would you assume my post was referring to weak or strong women? Why would you assume I thought you were disrespecting women by saying men need to respect themselves more? 

Lol 

I didn't refer to women as weak or strong. I was pointing out women don't have to stay at home in order to be faithful and being a nice guy doesn't mean a man doesn't respect himself. I work outside the home,never cheated and won't cheat. My husband is a nice guy...has lots of respect for himself. 

It's sad you feel a man can't be a nice guy and still have a faithful wife let alone a faithful wife who doesn't stay at home. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> So, if we feminists are responsible for men being cheated on, who is responsible for women being cheated on?:scratchhead:


Get w it cosmos! Don't you know feminists are responsible for all bad things in relationships? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Under no circumstances would I class LTC Broadwell as a young hottie, but I'm sure she's more than a bit crazy and she probably is dynamite in the sack. However, when these are your choices...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting that in CWI you'd post a photo of Petraeus' wife and the OW sitting near each other and say "However, when these are your choices..." - as if it's OK to line up the women and compare them on their looks, suggesting maybe you understand why he might cheat?

Say, speaking of soldiers, how about posting a photo of a soldier who encountered an IED who's had an ear plus all his hair burned off sitting near a handsome soldier who's not been injured. If the first soldier's wife cheated and the handsome soldier was the OM (probably "dynamite in the sack"), is it also okey dokey for us to say here in CWI "However, when these are your choices...." Would we be equally understanding of why SHE might cheat too?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

It's about balance and boundaries. I'm a jail guard. I'm very alpha at work,,,,very! At home I've been beta and my marriage fell apart over time. Go figure. I'm working on being more alpha as we speak. She has noticed too. It's working but it is all about balance.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> Interesting that in CWI you'd post a photo of Petraeus' wife and the OW sitting near each other and say "However, when these are your choices..." - as if it's OK to line up the women and compare them on their looks, suggesting maybe you understand why he might cheat?
> 
> Say, speaking of soldiers, how about posting a photo of a soldier who encountered an IED who's had an ear plus all his hair burned off sitting near a handsome soldier who's not been injured. If the first soldier's wife cheated and the handsome soldier was the OM (probably "dynamite in the sack"), is it also okey dokey for us to say here in CWI "However, when these are your choices...." Would we be equally understanding of why SHE might cheat too?


I didn't realize that Mrs. Petreaus had got blowed up by an IED while pulling a tour. Thank you for explaining that.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> Interesting that in CWI you'd post a photo of Petraeus' wife and the OW sitting near each other and say "However, when these are your choices..." - as if it's OK to line up the women and compare them on their looks, suggesting maybe you understand why he might cheat?
> 
> Say, speaking of soldiers, how about posting a photo of a soldier who encountered an IED who's had an ear plus all his hair burned off sitting near a handsome soldier who's not been injured. If the first soldier's wife cheated and the handsome soldier was the OM (probably "dynamite in the sack"), is it also okey dokey for us to say here in CWI "However, when these are your choices...." Would we be equally understanding of why SHE might cheat too?


To understand why something may be the way it is, does not mean necessarily that you agree that it's right or the way it should be. 

This is no different from certain women who refuse to stay in shape (ie, because men should love her for what's inside and also because she's too lazy to make the effort) for example, but then become angry because they are not getting male attention. 
Although I have noticed many an overwieght woman who is rather picky about the physical appearance of men that she would like to date.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

In this thread there seems to be a lot of blaming of the betrayed spouse (too beta, too fat. not attractive enough...) for the conduct of the WS.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I don't care if I'm alpha, beta, gamma, what have you... if you are
truly committed to me either through thoughts, feelings, words or vows and
you cheat, *it's YOUR FAULT*.

YOUR FAULT..... when I kick your ass to the curb.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I don't care if I'm alpha, beta, gamma, what have you... if you are
> truly committed to me either through thoughts, feelings, words or vows and
> you cheat, *it's YOUR FAULT*.
> 
> YOUR FAULT..... when I kick your ass to the curb.


:iagree:

This. So much win.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Jeez, how complicated that there Alpha beta dodecahedron stuff is. I just found myself described in the 'Gamma' category.

I don't know about any of this, to be fair. I do know that the BEHAVIOURS listed under Beta will certainly lead to unhappiness. And the BEHAVIOURS listed under my new starsign 'Gamma' are extremely hard to put up with - which is fine by me. If people aren't completely honest or loyal with me, then they are 'dead' to me from then on. My sense of right and wrong is fanatical, and I never lack confidence in the slightest. I find both beta and alpha traits repulsive, as not 'real men'.

Listen, I think you can change behaviour, or modify it, so I think the "you ARE a trapezoid" model is unhealthy, because it implies you can't correct yourself. But thinking of myself I've become more tolerant of liars, for example, choosing to see them as 'funny' and sometimes 'clever', so as long as I remember that they lie, I have fun in their company and I don't let them know what I really think of their silly little games. They think I'm laughing with them and not at them!

I have changed into a less harsh and Spartan person. 

I spend money on clothes and male beauty products - It's not because I want to. For me a bed in an empty room and a sincere companion is enough in life. I hate shaving, but I do it.

I would rather live in the middle of a forest in a wooden hut in Siberia, living on kasha and hunting and fishing for my food - with one other person, than be in society. 
But it isn't because I am shy: hard to believe, but people always describe me as an 'extrovert'. 
They just don't understand that I am not one of them. I am MAN in his most primitive pre-civilised form, predating the -'alpha'/'beta' divide, if it exists. That's why I look at both As and Bs as 'not real men', but the product of this pathetic thing called civilisation ;-). 

I see myself as Man incarnate, preferring austerity and self-reliance to 'society', But because I consciously recognise that this superficial world doesn't share my values, I have to adapt my behaviours.

These categories are guides to better social BEHAVIOUR and yes, they are helpful, no you shouldn't let them condemn you. But then, I suppose, a 'Gamma' would say that ha ha


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> So, if we feminists are responsible for men being cheated on, who is responsible for women being cheated on?:scratchhead:


Martians


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Get w it cosmos! Don't you know feminists are responsible for all bad things in relationships?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was complaining about double standards in dating, where you have the concept of "free riders" who will never pay. I was complaining about the feministic double standard. One of the guys was like "well if it was a true femenist, she would pay her own way."


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

If the cheater is a cheater, they'll cheat. Period. You can be all Alpha you want, this is not about the BS but about the WS character.
The whole Alpha/ Beta thing in betrayed spouses is just another excuse to cheat.
As someone said, the only difference is the way Alpha BS respond to infidelity that makes the WS see what they lost.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

There is a time to be alpha, and a time to be beta
If your wife is independant, strong, career woman, than an alpha male is going to be a di*k oin her eyes

the key is the middleground...women cheat on betas for sexual reasons, they cheat on alphas for emotional reasons...generally speaking of course and all my opinions


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Regardless of whether you are Alpha, Beta, Gamma ... all the way through Omega; if you are Black, White, Yellow, Brown, Purple, Green or Blue; if you are Male, Female, or Whatever; if you are Rich, Poor, Middle Class; if you're a professed Christian, Jew, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Hindu, Muslim, Budhist, or whatever religious affiliation; whether you are Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian, Tea Party, Right-Wing, Left-Wing, Radical, Reactionary, or Whatever:

No matter how well intentioned, there is only one unarguable common denominator amongst this entire group: And that is the marked ability and the propensity to:


CHEAT AND THEN TO BRAZENLY LIE ABOUT IT, EITHER BY OMISSION OR COMMISSION! IT REALLY DOES NOT MATTER WHO YOU ARE!*


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

If a HUMAN has motive and opportunity to cheat he or she will.

No amount of religion, honor, will power, or greek labels will stop it.

The best you can hope for is to create a climate in your marriage where cheating is less desirable than staying faithful. So look in the mirror and ask yourselves if that is true. Are you doing your very best to ensure that you are making your spouse happy in the ways that matter? If you're not, people shouldn't come on to message boards all shocked and dismayed that their spouse chose to cheat instead of ending the marriage.

We're all adults here. Doesn't take a genius to figure out you're not doing your part. I for one realize that my fat lazy azz haven't done my best in quite some time. In my personal case, if my wife is cheating I know I deserve it.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

So many variables involved as to who's likely to be cheated on, but some men are more likely to be cheated on than others. No man, or type of man is immune to being a victim, but some are more prone to getting cheated on than others.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sinnister said:


> If a HUMAN has motive and opportunity to cheat he or she will.
> 
> No amount of religion, honor, will power, or greek labels will stop it.
> 
> ...


*And while I do appreciate your candor and self-assessment, I'm of the mindset that absolutely no one deserves to be a victim of infidelity, more especially after having taken those time-honored vows "to love, honor, cherish, and to remain faithful to" the one that we are overtly telling society that we want to spend the rest of our natural lives with!

If that is, in any way, impossible to comply with, then why don't our theologians and public servants/elected officials/judiciary, by way of society, just save their breath (as well as ours) by simply deleting those holy vows, and at the same time just make getting a divorce as easy as is the marriage process itself?*


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Cubby said:


> So many variables involved as to who's likely to be cheated on, but some men are more likely to be cheated on than others. No man, or type of man is immune to being a victim, but some are more prone to getting cheated on than others.



BS. Getting cheated in has nothing to do with the man's character. Sure certain types of men may be more prone to relationship issues, but being cheated on is strictly due to the character of the WS. The WS is always responsible for the cheating and not the BS. Does the BS have a part in what led up to the WS wanting to stray yes, but the cheating solely relies on the character (or more lack of) in the WS, as the same man with a spouse of better moral character would just get separated and divorced, but not cheated on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

cj9947 said:


> I, personally, find this alpha vs beta subject to be a bunch of bullsh*t.


Agreed. 

It has nothing to do with the person who gets cheated on. It has everything to do with the person who decides/chooses to cheat.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Cubby said:


> So many variables involved as to who's likely to be cheated on, but some men are more likely to be cheated on than others. No man, or type of man is immune to being a victim, but some are more prone to getting cheated on than others.



I believe this. just like crime experts can tell us who are more attractive victims to thieves.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> I believe this. just like crime experts can tell us who are more attractive victims to thieves.


Very smart. Yes someone more generous and less vigilent would be a better target to be cheated on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Very smart. Yes someone more generous and less vigilent would be a better target to be cheated on.


I also think that those who are still in the process of selecting their next long time partner would be wise to consider whether their potential partners exhibit behaviours or other red flags that might suggest that they will stray.

For example, people with low boundaries; people who still display a single person mentality, particularly when dealing with OSFs; people who refuse to engage in adequate transparency...even after agreed exclusivity, after their exclusive partner sets an example and so on.......


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> This will probably be controversial, but my time here (as well as my own experience with infidelity) leads me more and more to believe that the main propellant of female infidelity is the weak, waffling, Nice Guy beta male.
> 
> This post-feminist notion, that men should be soft and effete and complacent and nearly apologetic for having been born male is the cause of so much of society's ills today.
> 
> It isn't that women are in the workplace that is causing the rise in female infidelity. It's that women in the workplace are seeing Alphas all day and coming home to a panty-folding Beta.


I'm going to reply before reading the rest of the thread. I may be repeating what others have already said.

The issue isn't about being Alpha or Beta, it's about the wife being satisfied in her life most of the time. 

A TRUE 100% Alpha, isn't going to be in a good marriage and his wife will be apt to cheat on him. His wife is going to hate his "stubbornness" and "thick headedness" etc. etc.

A TRUE 100% Beta, will get boring to his wife. And she will be apt to cheat on him.

Both of these situations also require the wife to be a woman who will cheat. There are plenty of women who won't cheat. It's not in their moral fiber to cheat. (You can debate this part, but you won't sway me, there are people who will cheat and people who won't. Period.)

A GOOD husband needs to be a mix of Alpha and Beta, with stronger Beta qualities and just enough Alpha to keep things interesting.

And this STILL doesn't mean your wife won't cheat on you if in HER mind, she's not satisfied. There are some women (and men) who just aren't satisfied in life, no matter how good they have it. It's a mental defect within them and it leads to cheating.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Of course, and knock off the condescension. I've been reading and posting for the better part of two years, and there are dozens and dozens of BH's here who fall into the Extreme Beta category. In fact, the surprisingly together, "Alpha" BH's lately have all turned out to be troll posts.
> 
> I am making a general observation, not a scientific conclusion.


But the fact that you're on an online marriage forum, in and of itself will skew the results.

An Alpha who gets cheated on won't go searching the internet for an online forum to get all "touchy feely" with other people to figure this out. They may try and R or may dump their cheating wife, but how many of them are going to go searching the internet to get involved in a forum. Some will, but what percentage? Versus what percentage of Betas? 

And you wonder why you read more infidelity threads posted by betas, in an environment that will promote more beta attendance. 

So you can't conclude that because THIS forum has more BH who SEEM to be more beta than alpha, that means more betas are cheated on. It's a very poor conclusion.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Agreed. Mine is vastly improved, too. *My wife says she really wants me to be the Captain of the ship at home.* She doesn't want to have to do it. I always tried to co-Captain, *because I am attracted to strong women and really want her to be strong* (take THAT, feminists). At work she has to be very Alpha, but at home, she said she wants to be second-in-command, not the one always calling the shots.
> 
> To the ire of some here, this alpha/beta stuff WORKS.


So does this mean you're going to cheat on your wife?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> Agreed. Mine is vastly improved, too. *My wife says she really wants me to be the Captain of the ship at home.* She doesn't want to have to do it. I always tried to co-Captain, because I am attracted to strong women and really want her to be strong (take THAT, feminists). At work she has to be very Alpha, but at home, she said she wants to be second-in-command, not the one always calling the shots.
> 
> To the ire of some here, this alpha/beta stuff WORKS.


Here's a song for you:

Double - The Captain Of Her Heart (Official Video) - YouTube


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> To understand why something may be the way it is, does not mean necessarily that you agree that it's right or the way it should be.
> 
> This is no different from certain women who refuse to stay in shape (ie, because men should love her for what's inside and also because she's too lazy to make the effort) for example, but then become angry because they are not getting male attention.


My point is that this is a forum for people who are "*Coping With Infidelity*." It struck me as very insensitive to show a photo HERE in this forum where the wife and the OW are shown together for comparison's sake, along with a suggestion that one might understand how the cheater chose to cheat. 

This alpha beta crap is social Darwinism, and it leads to this kind of victim blaming. Whether a man who's been cheated on has had his looks changed by an IED, or he's gained a few pounds makes no difference - it would be equally disgusting to show a handsome Army Ranger sitting a few seats away from a less than good looking guy (overweight or IED burn victim - take your pick) who was cheated on, and have red circles around the two guys so we could compare and then comment that maybe we might understand the wife's decision to cheat with the handsome Army Ranger.

People who don't get feminism rant about it. It's pretty simple: it's about equal treatment. Are there any guys out there who gained a few pounds who were cheated on? Was it your fault because you gained weight? No, it was not. It was not Mrs. Petraeus' fault that she was cheated on either. And to suggest that it might have been her fault is just so far out there. (SO many of the OW's and OM's are actually less attractive than the spouses, so that photo line-up thing is just sick - I think it even rises to the level of bullying - how would YOU feel if YOU were Mrs. Petraeus and saw that post?)

To post an illustration that suggests David Petraeus might have had a good reason for doing what he did is just taking this tendency to blame the victim too far. The whole alpha beta mindset takes you down this path, and it's not only leading to wrong conclusions (like victim blaming) but it tends to be mean-spirited.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> My point is that this is a forum for people who are "*Coping With Infidelity*." It struck me as very insensitive to show a photo HERE in this forum where the wife and the OW are shown together for comparison's sake, along with a suggestion that one might understand how the cheater chose to cheat.
> 
> This alpha beta crap is social Darwinism, and it leads to this kind of victim blaming. Whether a man who's been cheated on has had his looks changed by an IED, or he's gained a few pounds makes no difference - it would be equally disgusting to show a handsome Army Ranger sitting a few seats away from a less than good looking guy (overweight or IED burn victim - take your pick) who was cheated on, and have red circles around the two guys so we could compare and then comment that maybe we might understand the wife's decision to cheat with the handsome Army Ranger.
> 
> ...


I didn't see it as blaming the victim, but just merely explaining just what is.

Let's contemplate Ms Broadwell for a moment. She was married at the time of her intransigence. When I have time, I'll try to search as to what happened to her marriage as a result of this.

I saw her on the Daily Show practically bragging about how she went running with Petraeus regularly and they formed a bond which, I guess, made her book more interesting than any other on the same topic. 

I guess I just like having some control over my life. No, I am not going to get big and fat if I can help it. And I make the effort to key into the things that my fiance values so that we can have a long and enduring and monogamous relationship going forward. 

No, I don't agree with Petraeus having affairs with one or multiple women, but if Mrs. Petraeus had asked me, well, I'm sure you have an idea now what I might try to say to her.......


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> I also think that those who are still in the process of selecting their next long time partner would be wise to consider whether their potential partners exhibit behaviours or other red flags that might suggest that they will stray.
> 
> For example, people with low boundaries; people who still display a single person mentality, particularly when dealing with OSFs; people who refuse to engage in adequate transparency...even after agreed exclusivity, after their exclusive partner sets an example and so on.......


Excellent point. Look how often we see guys on here say "Her first marriage ended because she cheated, but she told me she'd learned her lesson...I didn't think she'd do that with me."

Long before I ever heard of a Gamma or a Beta, a guy I played in bands with took up with a really hot girl who was pregnant by who knows who. Now, the guy had some status, but the girl outranked him. Even at age 17, I knew how that story was going to end. Common sense, people.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> My point is that this is a forum for people who are "*Coping With Infidelity*." It struck me as very insensitive to show a photo HERE in this forum where the wife and the OW are shown together for comparison's sake, along with a suggestion that one might understand how the cheater chose to cheat.


That's actually not the point I was making, as I somehow eliminated several sentences from under the photo. The point of the photo is that LTC Broadwell is not particularly a hottie. She would only be considered a hottie relative to someone like Mrs. Petreaus. The fact that LTC Broadwell was the aggressor and GEN Petreaus' was passive, ending up begging and pleading with LTC Broadwell to stay in their illicit affair, showed that Petreaus, a social Alpha, was a sexual Gamma. While LTC Broadwell is a "6" at best (in the dark) I can see why a sexual loser like GEN Petreaus would go loopy for her.



hopefulgirl said:


> This alpha beta crap is social Darwinism, and it leads to this kind of victim blaming.


It's not social, that's the whole point. It's sexual Darwinism that's at play in sexual relations. Now, in LTC Broadwell's pursuit of GEN Petraeus, I believe her goals were completely mercenary. Not unlike her marriage to Dr. Broadwell, another Gamma Male. In this case, it's purely female hypergamy run riot.



hopefulgirl said:


> Whether a man who's been cheated on has had his looks changed by an IED, or he's gained a few pounds makes no difference - it would be equally disgusting to show a handsome Army Ranger sitting a few seats away from a less than good looking guy (overweight or IED burn victim - take your pick) who was cheated on, and have red circles around the two guys so we could compare and then comment that maybe we might understand the wife's decision to cheat with the handsome Army Ranger.


GEN Petreaus was putty (hardening putty, presumably) in LTC Broadwell's hands. Mrs Petreaus really wasn't doing too much to counteract that possibility. She doesn't look like someone who gives a lot of thought to sexuality, does she?




hopefulgirl said:


> People who don't get feminism rant about it. It's pretty simple: it's about equal treatment.


What's feminism got to do with anything? This is about raw animal sex and the manipulation of weak minded men.



hopefulgirl said:


> Are there any guys out there who gained a few pounds who were cheated on? Was it your fault because you gained weight? No, it was not. It was not Mrs. Petraeus' fault that she was cheated on either. And to suggest that it might have been her fault is just so far out there. (SO many of the OW's and OM's are actually less attractive than the spouses, so that photo line-up thing is just sick - I think it even rises to the level of bullying - how would YOU feel if YOU were Mrs. Petraeus and saw that post?)


If she's looking, she's seen plenty worse around the web and in the legacy print media, like this backhanded commiseration. Where do you think that photo came from? Do you really think Holly Petreaus is interested in sex?



hopefulgirl said:


> To post an illustration that suggests David Petraeus might have had a good reason for doing what he did is just taking this tendency to blame the victim too far. The whole alpha beta mindset takes you down this path, and it's not only leading to wrong conclusions (like victim blaming) but it tends to be mean-spirited.


GEN Petreaus is disgraced as an adulterer (NSA?) and the wronged party is certainly entitled to demand satisfaction on the field of honor (he won't) in this case. Nobody is defending the general. On the other hand, his weaknesses and motivations are not very mysterious, to say the least.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> It's not social, that's the whole point. It's sexual Darwinism that's at play in sexual relations. Now, in LTC Broadwell's pursuit of GEN Petraeus, I believe her goals were completely mercenary. Not unlike her marriage to Dr. Broadwell, another Gamma Male. In this case, it's purely female hypergamy run riot.


Let's not forget that Broadwell got pissed off that Petreaus was fooling around with a second mistress. And it was Broadwell's own doing (sending the second mistress threatening e-mails) forced all the affairs into public light.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> An Alpha who gets cheated on won't go searching the internet for an online forum to get all "touchy feely" with other people to figure this out. They may try and R or may dump their cheating wife, but how many of them are going to go searching the internet to get involved in a forum. Some will, but what percentage? Versus what percentage of Betas?
> 
> And you wonder why you read more infidelity threads posted by betas, in an environment that will promote more beta attendance.
> 
> So you can't conclude that because THIS forum has more BH who SEEM to be more beta than alpha, that means more betas are cheated on. It's a very poor conclusion.


This is so true. I met a woman that was kissed by a co-worker (a stolen kiss). She went back to her co-worker and asked him what it meant. He told her he had feelings for her. Later that night she told her husband she was confused about her feelings and didn't know what to do. She told her husband she needed time. 

Well...apparently it didn't matter what she wanted to do. He asked for a divorce right then and there and never looked back. He is remarried now. Meanwhile she is FWBs with the co-worker and really regrets everything. I never met her husband but he was probably alpha, he was a telecom exec. I might actually post the detailed version of this in another thread. Folks on CWI seem to like it when the karma bus comes.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> This is so true. I met a woman that was kissed by a co-worker (a stolen kiss). She went back to her co-worker and asked him what it meant. He told her he had feelings for her. Later that night she told her husband she was confused about her feelings and didn't know what to do. She told her husband she needed time.
> 
> Well...apparently it didn't matter what she wanted to do. He asked for a divorce right then and there and never looked back. He is remarried now. Meanwhile she is FWBs with the co-worker and really regrets everything. I never met her husband but he was probably alpha, he was a telecom exec. * I might actually post the detailed version of this in another thread.* Folks on CWI seem to like it when the karma bus comes.


I do like detail.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Yah, Herr General Petreaus is a veak minded loser, the girlfriend only a 6, the vife obviously not interested in sex. All undesirables. Ve of course are zuperior to dem all. Let us rank by number und pick apart more of dese pathetic veak und inferior beings - human beings? Hmmm - mein Fuhrer, dose dat are so beneath us are not truly vone of us....


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> Yah, Herr General Petreaus is a veak minded loser, the girlfriend only a 6, the vife obviously not interested in sex. All undesirables. Ve of course are zuperior to dem all. Let us rank by number und pick apart more of dese pathetic veak und inferior beings - human beings? Hmmm - mein Fuhrer, dose dat are so beneath us are not truly vone of us....


Here is today's recon mission:

Nepotism
Cronyism
Careerist
Perfumed Prince

Google each of those with the name Petreaus added and report back.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> Yah, Herr General Petreaus is a veak minded loser, the girlfriend only a 6, the vife obviously not interested in sex. All undesirables. Ve of course are zuperior to dem all. Let us rank by number und pick apart more of dese pathetic veak und inferior beings - human beings? Hmmm - mein Fuhrer, dose dat are so beneath us are not truly vone of us....


I think you are insulting German speakers with that racist ridiculous accent and references to Hitler. It's uncalled for.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> An Alpha who gets cheated on won't go searching the internet for an online forum to get all "touchy feely" with other people to figure this out. *They may try and R or may dump their cheating wife,*


Essentially, no to the R. The cheating wife will either be dumped or relegated to the far corners of the harem. That's one of those things that define "alpha." Remember, Alphas (and Sigmas) are constantly getting sexual opportunities, and in the case of alphas possess the Dark Triad traits (part of their attraction).


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Is it possible for a man to be, "beta", and have good strong personal boundaries? Maybe that's just, "Alpha"? When in marriage, it seems compromise is the key many times. That seems especially, "beta", to me.


An Alpha has no interest in compromise, because of his natural sexual attraction and his Dark Triad personality flaws (narcissism, so-called machiavellianism, psycopathy). Modern marriage is probably more Delta than Beta, so it's definitely not Alpha. While_ legal_ monogamy was invented by the Greeks and spread by their cultural proteges the Romans, there was never any expectation of _practical_ monogamy from men. Marriage was about family alliances, property, and legitimate kids to inherit and continue the line.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Thanks for the links. I'll check those out.
> 
> I do believe, "nothing is new under the sun". The Greeks had issues with beastiality, if you believe the story of the Minotaur.
> 
> ...


The Romans viewed slaves as sub human and therefore fair game for whatever horrible stuff that they threw at them.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Thanks for the links. I'll check those out.
> 
> I do believe, "nothing is new under the sun". The Greeks had issues with beastiality, if you believe the story of the Minotaur.
> 
> ...


Women copulating with animals was a "thing" throughout Greco-Roman mythology. It's a very big thing in women's fiction today, although the bulls and swans are werewolves, aliens, and dinosaurs. There is nothing new under the sun.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Essentially, no to the R. The cheating wife will either be dumped or relegated to the far corners of the harem. That's one of those things that define "alpha." Remember, Alphas (and Sigmas) are constantly getting sexual opportunities, and in the case of alphas possess the Dark Triad traits (part of their attraction).


Yeah, no Alpha worth his salt would allow that to hang around his neck with no proper consequences implemented.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Let's make this very simple. Women cheat because they can. They want a larger package. They want the cheer of there girlfriends. They are bored and want some MTV type excitement in there life. Once a broken women gets what she wants out of her man, she will start looking for the next target.

Yes, this is a broad stroke of the brush but in a lot of cases , it is true.

There is no real consequence when a woman cheat's anymore.

No beatings, no "A" on the forehead, no physical damage to body parts, nothing that would give pause to woman to think " You know, this is really a bad idea!"

Now, I know that my thought's on this matter will enrage some of you but I am OK with that.

The thing with the Alpha and Beta is , we live in a world that is SOFT! The United States could not fight and win WW2 with today's people. I am going to post this and think some more. David


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> Let's make this very simple. Women cheat because they can. They want a larger package. They want the cheer of there girlfriends. They are bored and want some MTV type excitement in there life. Once a broken women gets what she wants out of her man, she will start looking for the next target.
> 
> Yes, this is a broad stroke of the brush but in a lot of cases , it is true.
> 
> ...


This is complete [email protected] While I do agree with the lack of consequences and punishments for the adulterer, I don't believe that the US is the only country with this breakdown and softness. Do you think that the US is the only country that people have changed and gotten soft?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> This is complete [email protected] Do you think that the US is the only country that people have changed and gotten soft?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Were not in the stone ages anymore


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

It might be complete doo Squeakr but I work with the US Military everyday and I see the state that they are in. It's pretty bad.

I was just in the states a few months ago and while limited to the DC area, I really could see the change.

I have been to WARSAW Pact countries, NATO countries, Far East countries so I have seen a little bit of the world. 

The problem is the "Stone Age is coming back!"

I am not trying to throw words out to enrage some of you, it is just my observation of the last 15 years. The US is SOFT, not getting SOFT, I mean SOFT RIGHT NOW!


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I am going to change that from the world is SOFT to the US and some of Western Europe is SOFT.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> It might be complete doo Squeakr but I work with the US Military everyday and I see the state that they are in. It's pretty bad.
> 
> I was just in the states a few months ago and while limited to the DC area, I really could see the change.
> 
> ...


As a disabled US Marine I am going to call BS. I have been in several other counties and trained in and with their troops and can say that few are better or more superior than our US troops from my experience things are pretty much equal. The training is pretty much the same from my personal experience. I also know that the training is completely different than what WW2 era soldiers went through. That compared with the fact that troops see far more combat and thus have more experience than most WW2 soldiers have. Comparisons across these ages aren't fair as things have changed so much in the US and abroad. The troops in and around DC aren't necessarily a good sampling of the offerings that we have as most of the combat ready troops aren't stationed within the DC area lots of exhibition type troops are there. Once again I am just speaking from my personal military and combat experience so I may be jaded in my opinions???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Interesting direction for a threadjack. 

For the most part, I believe that we live in a civilized world. In order for societies to function they have to agree to some kind of framework for justice.

I also believe fervently in personal accountability. Accordingly, the only person whose actions I can truly control and that I must stringently hold to account are my own. 

Yeah, you want to see righteous justice done! Brand'em with an A! Flog'em! Stone them to death!!!

The truth is that the framework of justice that we live within is more often indifferent at best and sometimes just fails miserably. Worse yet, the Karma Bus often neglects to make an entrance.

In reality, the only justice that I can mete out is to cast them out to wander the desert of their own crappy life without me. 

Do the 180 and divorce as required.

Tying this back to the OP, Alpha, Beta, Doormat, Player, Dbag, Nice Guy etc are all just labels for generalized groupings of traits that I've exhibited to varying degrees at one time or another in my life. I've learned, grown and sometimes regressed.

Reading on TAM has provided a much clearer path forward in governing my own actions within my marriage.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> As a disabled US Marine I am going to call BS. I have been in several other counties and trained in and with their troops and can say that few are better or more superior than our US troops from my experience things are pretty much equal. The training is pretty much the same from my personal experience. I also know that the training is completely different than what WW2 era soldiers went through. That compared with the fact that troops see far more combat and thus have more experience than most WW2 soldiers have. *Comparisons across these ages aren't fair as things have changed so much in the US and abroad*. The troops in and around DC aren't necessarily a good sampling of the offerings that we have as most of the combat ready troops aren't stationed within the DC area lots of exhibition type troops are there. Once again I am just speaking from my personal military and combat experience so I may be jaded in my opinions???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting diversion, indeed. Much as in previous "police actions" we own the air, we have the best "stuff", and we have superb men in the combat arms on the ground. Yet our civilian and military leadership lacks the will to actually wage war. This is a problem on many levels.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

DavidWYoung said:


> It might be complete doo Squeakr but I work with the US Military everyday and I see the state that they are in. It's pretty bad.
> 
> I was just in the states a few months ago and while limited to the DC area, I really could see the change.
> 
> ...


I sometimes think that as well. Republicans like Santorum don't want the next generation to go past high school. Newt Gingrich wants poor kids to play janitor at their own grade schools so that they can see what work is like according to Newt (at the same time pushing adults out of a job).

The polarisation of wealth holdings are becoming greater. I find it interesting that when a minimum wage earner complains about the pay, he or she is told to find a new job. When a CEO complains about his or her 8 (or 9) figure pay packet, the board who is supposed to represent the shareholders adds to it.

I think one reason why it's harder to be an alpha male these days is because there are fewer stable jobs. At one time you could be mediocre and still have a job for life and able to support the family. These days that's next to impossible. 

And i believe that this a trend that would have happened without women's lib. The trend is to try to _businessize_ everything. Even prisons. 

Think about it, private prisons are trying to make deals with various levels of government so that they can have a monopoly on prison services. And imagine how many unknown deals and winks and nods that might go on between private prison officials and public officials....... just think about it.......

It might be that the alpha male is a dying breed.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Essentially, no to the R. The cheating wife will either be dumped or relegated to the far corners of the harem. That's one of those things that define "alpha." Remember, Alphas (and Sigmas) are constantly getting sexual opportunities, and in the case of alphas possess the Dark Triad traits (part of their attraction).


Yes, I agree. I was just trying to keep the conversation less "specific" because people like to debate minutia which takes away from the actual point being made when you're definitive.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Yes, I agree. I was just trying to keep the conversation less "specific" because people like to debate minutia which takes away from the actual point being made when you're definitive.


And not to mention the fact that people confuse "Alpha" with being a good guy.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> I sometimes think that as well. Republicans like Santorum don't want the next generation to go past high school. Newt Gingrich wants poor kids to play janitor at their own grade schools so that they can see what work is like according to Newt (at the same time pushing adults out of a job).
> 
> The polarisation of wealth holdings are becoming greater. I find it interesting that when a minimum wage earner complains about the pay, he or she is told to find a new job. When a CEO complains about his or her 8 (or 9) figure pay packet, the board who is supposed to represent the shareholders adds to it.
> 
> ...


Tell me about it. I don't want to be a 'Human Resources Manager' or a 'Project Manager', I want to work in a skilled, stable well paid manual job. That's where I feel like a proper man, doing useful things. But there just aren't any. So frustrating! My choice is to be a high-paid wuss manager 'adding value', or be a low-paid factory donkey. 

I'm very angry and disappointed with the 'jobs' available, if at all available, since I turned working age.

And the response from governments? Women aren't paid enough. There's not enough women in Engineering and the military. There's not enough women in senior positions. 

"Someone else is still secretly holding them back" ...Gimme a break!


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Op is right. How many alphas have been here? Alphas do not take back cheaters. Ever. They have too many other options. And you cannot be alpha at work but not at home. Alphas have no choice but to be alphas. They were alpha in grade school.

Less than 10% of men are alphas. And if you are here, you are not one.

Ive only known two alphas in my life. And both are rich and have academy awards.

If most women believed their husbands would quickly divorce them, most would not cheat.

But as we see here most of the guys here are co-dependent. And that is as far away from alpha as you can get.

Its human nature to exploit weakness. And we see it here everyday.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Get w it cosmos! Don't you know feminists are responsible for all bad things in relationships?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Darn, I'm getting old! Thanks for the wake up call, SB


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## amr1977 (Mar 2, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> It might be complete doo Squeakr but I work with the US Military everyday and I see the state that they are in. It's pretty bad.
> 
> I was just in the states a few months ago and while limited to the DC area, I really could see the change.


You saw the "change " in DC... Lolz. I was pulling patrols in Taliban-sympathetic areas of Afghanistan 7 months ago. Why don't you try hanging with some infantry guys in a combat zone and then come back with your assessment. 

DC, hahahaha.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

illwill said:


> If most women believed their husbands would quickly divorce them, most would not cheat.


Actually, most women don't cheat already...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

amr1977 said:


> You saw the "change " in DC... Lolz. I was pulling patrols in Taliban-sympathetic areas of Afghanistan 7 months ago. Why don't you try hanging with some infantry guys in a combat zone and then come back with your assessment.
> 
> DC, hahahaha.


Agreed and said basically the same thing (as I saw through my service as well). 

Thanks for your service. 

Saying that DC is a good example of anything for the US is an insult, unless the example is of what not to do
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

illwill said:


> Op is right. How many alphas have been here? Alphas do not take back cheaters. Ever. They have too many other options. And you cannot be alpha at work but not at home. Alphas have no choice but to be alphas. They were alpha in grade school.
> 
> Less than 10% of men are alphas. And if you are here, you are not one.
> 
> ...


@illwill, *can I* ask you a question?


There I go again making my self laugh!

How beta of me to even ask..I could have just told you

Seriousaly...is compassion alpha or beta? or is it just human nature?

Ok... now for real...if most women wanted a divorce then cheating seems to be the best way to go about it...what say you most women?:rofl:


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Actually, most women don't cheat already...


Then why do they hide the affair? And often lose their minds when exposure happens?


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

illwill said:


> Less than 10% of men are alphas. And if you are here, you are not one.


Wouldn't necessarily say that has to be Alpha quality, just being someone who doesn't put up with BS. You can be beta and don't play games.

For the most part, everyone here tends to be confused and want help cause they generally don't know what they're gonna do with the WS. Someone like me for example though doesn't feel there's a need for help because I only see one option no matter how bad it was, out the front door and never visiting it again. 

Hell, I don't even think I need evidence, if I'm just not feeling something is right, don't feel the need to ask questions, I'll just drop it (the relationship). I can be compassionate and worry about her needs and at the same time tell her deuces and to forget my number if it ever goes down. Screw that lets work it out stuff.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

the guy said:


> @illwill, *can I* ask you a question?
> 
> 
> There I go again making my self laugh!
> ...


You can be alpha and still have compassion. You forgive and move on.

And most cheaters dont want a divorce, they want cake.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Alphas dont need advice on how to deal with disrespect.

And betas do take bs. No taking bs from anyone may not make you alpha, but it also does not make you omega or beta.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

illwill said:


> Alphas dont need advice on how to deal with disrespect.
> 
> And betas do take bs. No taking bs from anyone may not make you alpha, but it also does not make you omega or beta.


Are those by-products, or defining characteristics?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I think for the most part it is a defining characteristics. I do however believe in some small cases life can change you into alpha/omega/beta. But this is very rare i think.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

illwill said:


> I think for the most part it is a defining characteristics. I do however believe in some small cases life can change you into alpha/omega/beta. But this is very rare i think.


Yes life can affect your image. You don't have to stay where it puts you though.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think I'm a beta
A beta fish, swiming alone in my fish bowl waiting for another fish so I can eat it


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

the guy said:


> I think I'm a beta
> A beta fish, swiming alone in my fish bowl waiting for another fish so I can eat it


Yessir


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

the guy said:


> I think I'm a beta
> A beta fish, swiming alone in my fish bowl waiting for another fish so I can eat it


I rather enjoyed that.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

illwill said:


> Then why do they hide the affair? And often lose their minds when exposure happens?


How is that relevant? What does that have anything to do with the number of women cheating?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I don't care if I'm alpha, beta, gamma, what have you... if you are
> truly committed to me either through thoughts, feelings, words or vows and
> you cheat, *it's YOUR FAULT*.
> 
> YOUR FAULT..... when I kick your ass to the curb.


When you immediately kick WW to the curb, you automatically ascend to Alpha/Sigma status. At least when it counts.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Women copulating with animals was a "thing" throughout Greco-Roman mythology. It's a very big thing in women's fiction today, although the bulls and swans are werewolves, aliens, and dinosaurs. There is nothing new under the sun.


Freaking dinosaurs?! And I thought Bronies were sick.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Women copulating with animals was a "thing" throughout Greco-Roman mythology. It's a very big thing in women's fiction today, although the bulls and swans are werewolves, aliens, and dinosaurs. There is nothing new under the sun.


Vampires. You forgot vampires. With glitter. LOL


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Vampires werewolves... Ugh. Twlight stuff. If any movie series that if watched by a male was ever more able to cause a mans thing to simply fall off... Or jump off and run away.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)




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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> When you immediately kick WW to the curb, you automatically ascend to Alpha/Sigma status. At least when it counts.


I agree for sure. I became way more Alpha in the past few months and it's helped me immensely. Once she saw me buying new clothes, going out, making plans without her, planning to move out / trial separation, taking the lead at MC, and detaching.....she changed a lot. Her thinking became very ambivalent to say the least.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> I agree for sure. I became way more Alpha in the past few months and it's helped me immensely. Once she saw me buying new clothes, going out, making plans without her, planning to move out / trial separation, taking the lead at MC, and detaching.....she changed a lot. Her thinking became very ambivalent to say the least.


It sounds like you weren't faking it. You took charge of your life and are enjoying it. They usually regain interest after others have gained interest in the betrayed and they appear unfazed by the affair, actually thriving.

It's funny though, kinda like a dog pisses on a fire hydrant to mark his spot, she may want to put sex on you to claim you, but still will not want to fully KILL all of her affair and cheating ways.

It's a hard KILL that takes time, pain and a desire to do so.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

She had an EA for a month...it was a bit of a joke IMHO. But it woke her up to the fact our marriage was not what it needed to be. She help the power for a month then I took control of me, the situation and my life. 

No I wasn't faking anything. When I offered her an uncontested divorce Nov.10th and made plans to move out...things changed quick.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> She had an EA for a month...it was a bit of a joke IMHO. But it woke her up to the fact our marriage was not what it needed to be. She help the power for a month then I took control of me, the situation and my life.
> 
> No I wasn't faking anything. When I offered her an uncontested divorce Nov.10th and made plans to move out...things changed quick.


I would continue building up my single person strength. Let her persue you. Develop some new skills or strengthen old ones you have let slip. Building up your charm and social validation with the outside ladies can't hurt you either. You don't have to cheat on her, but build yourself up, where you know you can have women easily if you choose.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I didn't move out. She asked me to stay on Dec 10th. We have been out with co-workers of mine numerous times and she saw first hand how a few of them would scoop me if the chance was there. She had become jealous of one co-worker in particular who has it all going on. After a party one night she asked me to "tell her about Michelle" She saw the chemistry we had as we have worked together for 5 years now. We are not involved at all.

She saw I was dead serious about moving out. 
Also witnessed I could have my needs met elsewhere-easily
She did all the crying in MC on Dec 4th-I did none..sat there very Alpha.
We had a long talk till 1am Dec 9th and she cried a lot. Then she asked me to stay Dec 10th over coffee by her work. That's when she said she wanted to work on us. The night before I stated if I left I may not return at all. I think that shook her to the core.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> I didn't move out. She asked me to stay on Dec 10th. We have been out with co-workers of mine numerous times and she saw first hand how a few of them would scoop me if the chance was there. She had become jealous of one co-worker in particular who has it all going on. After a party one night she asked me to "tell her about Michelle" She saw the chemistry we had as we have worked together for 5 years now. We are not involved at all.
> 
> She saw I was dead serious about moving out.
> Also witnessed I could have my needs met elsewhere-easily
> ...


Like it should! You will be fine and you guys will be fine if you choose.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I am very optimistic. I think we can make it work. After 22 years together and 17 years married it would be a shame to throw it away. Thx for the kind words Treyvion


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