# Women and being with the same partner for years.



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

There is a theme here that wives stop wanting sex at some point. It seems to be the 7-10 year mark. Some just don't have the drive for the husband anymore. Of course barring abuse/being a jerk/cheating on the wife/addiction, why would a wife suddenly stop wanting sex?

So this got me thinking, are women prone to wanting "newness" more so than men? 

That "in love" feeling and being courted makes her feel special but when that wears off, does she loose her drive because of that? Rom coms don't help. It paints a picture of unicorns and rainbows forever. She buys in to that and also remembers the former feeling of "the high" and suddenly doesn't feel that her husband loves her anymore or rather, he just wants sex, takes her for granted, etc. Maybe he does or maybe she just tells herself that. 

Is it newness that women want? That new romance? Or is it when her husband doesn't court her anymore, she looses her drive? I don't know but I welcome a healthy discussion.


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## dearhusband (Aug 22, 2011)

The other side of the story is what seems to be dubbed "Nice Guy" syndrome here. A guy can be all of those things, but if he's a pushover and allows himself to be taken for granted the result is still no loving.

I guess the question is, can you create newness with the same old dog? And can you do it when only the dog seems to care?

It definitely sucks being the one that isn't desired whether you're a man or woman.


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

I am a woman in my late 40's and we are approaching our ten year anniversary. I would say that I am now a woman like you described in your post. The passion is totally gone and the "hot, or romantic sessions are few and far between. He still wants sex daily and I oblige most days but I just don't feel the desire for it the way I used to. I would say menopause is part of it but the bigger part is his lack of effort. He literally puts NO effort whatsoever into "wooing" me. Although I know I won't seek out an affair, I do miss the way he was in the early days of our relationship. Chris Rock had a comedy special years ago and in it he mentions that a man has a "representative" on the job the first year of a relationship. So true! I miss the late night cudding and talking sessions that ended in GREAT sex. Now he complains about work, watches bad tv and then off to bed before 9pm. So, for me....not a lot going on there to get me in the mood. I tell him this but he just laughs or shrugs it off. I doubt with that kind of response on his part things will improve. Bummer....but I guess not uncommon.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> There is a theme here that wives stop wanting sex at some point. It seems to be the 7-10 year mark. Some just don't have the drive for the husband anymore. Of course barring abuse/being a jerk/cheating on the wife/addiction, why would a wife suddenly stop wanting sex?
> 
> So this got me thinking, are women prone to wanting "newness" more so than men?
> 
> ...


Great topic. Yeah the old seven year itch.

There are those that say it is related to rearing a family and that after a few years the husband is less critical or whatever. Not saying I buy in to this.

I do see way too often the threads start off with "My wife and I have been married for ten years and she has been texting this guy a lot ...". 

I think expectations change. Needs evolve. Careers take over. Kids happen. 

But the root cause of this IMHO is that the spouse / marriage is not truly the #1 priority. Most people will say but of course it is. But when you break it down the kids or job or hobbies or friends take priority and the couple is left with what is left.

So I spent most of my marriage "providing" for my familiy. Yes I needed to do that. And it was very much for us. But in the midst of that my work became my mistress. I was having many of my needs met by work. I won't even get into the EA with an actual person that did occur. I had an EA with my work. In hindsight I could have done it a much better way. I honestly can say I did not know any better. Critisize me but I did not have a good example growing up. I can also honestly say I did it a lot better than my father. I did not need sex education growing up. I needed relationship knowledge. Learning by making mistakes is less than optimal. 

My wife did not leave me after ten years. But as the saying goes "but for the grace of God there go I". I made many of the same mistakes as other men did whose wives did move on.

Bright Eyes, you would be amazed at how many men there are that their work has taken them over and that they do not and will not surrender that priority for their wife / marriage.
Unfortunate.


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

In the early days of our relationship we talked about so many things not work related. Now, yeesh.....that's pretty much all I hear. I understand work is hard, draining, annoying, etc. Heck, I work full time and have a very demanding job. I will say I rarely bring it home. I find it unhealthy. I give my job 40 hours a week and I will not give them my free time at home. He is not of the same mindset. My first marriage ended because my husband was a workaholic and when he wasn't at work he was asleep. I was thinking the other day it's like re-living my first marriage. I feel lonely so much of the time. I really love this guy and want things to be how they were in the early part of our lives together. The little things mean so much to me. Take a walk, have a no tv or talk about work night. Simple stuff like that would make a WORLD of difference to me. I dunno....feels kind of hopeless to me considering he doesn't seem to think there is a problem. When I tell him how I feel he laughs and tells me I think too much. Well, I think he doesn't think enough! He makes me feel that my feelings are not valid...but buddy, I feel this way for a reason! Arghhh....what to do?


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## loiue (Sep 7, 2011)

I am a 24 year old female and me and my partner have been togeather for 9 years.

I want to oppose this stereotype as men only wanting sex.

We have been togeather 9 years and i am the one that seems to be begging not only for sex but the foreplay as well...I am the one who is interested and he is not.
We have been togeather along time and we have our issues as well as any other couple. 
Yes i still want to feel the 'newness' and passion of our early years...unfortunately i cant have that all the time. We have jobs, kids, mortgages debts, as well as personal problems that come with having a life togeather. I appreciate that he is a dedicated father and provider for our family. Although the passion is lost sometimes we get along on many other levels.
Sure id love to experience the honeymoon phase all the time but it isnt realistic unfortunately. 
What matters to me at the moment is that we have what we always dreamed of the house the kids the marriage, i still love my partner very much and although those fuzzy feeling are great i wouldnt change what i have for anything.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Joanie said:


> In the early days of our relationship we talked about so many things not work related. Now, yeesh.....that's pretty much all I hear. I understand work is hard, draining, annoying, etc. Heck, I work full time and have a very demanding job. I will say I rarely bring it home. I find it unhealthy. I give my job 40 hours a week and I will not give them my free time at home. He is not of the same mindset. My first marriage ended because my husband was a workaholic and when he wasn't at work he was asleep. I was thinking the other day it's like re-living my first marriage. I feel lonely so much of the time. I really love this guy and want things to be how they were in the early part of our lives together. The little things mean so much to me. Take a walk, have a no tv or talk about work night. Simple stuff like that would make a WORLD of difference to me. I dunno....feels kind of hopeless to me considering he doesn't seem to think there is a problem. When I tell him how I feel he laughs and tells me I think too much. Well, I think he doesn't think enough! He makes me feel that my feelings are not valid...but buddy, I feel this way for a reason! Arghhh....what to do?


I think you see that communicating at a level that goes deeper than work is a valid expectation, but he doesn't. I've recently realized that my wife and I were fortunate in the choice of a premarital counselor before we married, who drilled into my thick skull that there is a validity in my wife's need to talk about deeper issues, turn off the tv, and just connect with her. Do you think your husband would consider marriage counseling? He needs to see that these feelings represent valid needs.

I think this type of issue gets to the heart of the thread. There are plenty of people who think that we can retain complete autonomy and individuality and still have a happy long term marriage. However, it seems like most women who feel that they lost a part of themself by marrying can point back to a long period of time where they had to put thier emotional needs on hold. My biggest failing early in the marriage was in thinking that my desire to show her that I could work hard and long hours to make her proud of me. Oddly, this didn't generate those warm and fuzzies in her. I'd have nobody to blame but myself if she missed the passion during the dating months.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> I think you see that communicating at a level that goes deeper than work is a valid expectation, but he doesn't. I've recently realized that my wife and I were fortunate in the choice of a premarital counselor before we married, who drilled into my thick skull that there is a validity in my wife's need to talk about deeper issues, turn off the tv, and just connect with her. Do you think your husband would consider marriage counseling? He needs to see that these feelings represent valid needs.
> 
> I think this type of issue gets to the heart of the thread. There are plenty of people who think that we can retain complete autonomy and individuality and still have a happy long term marriage. However, it seems like most women who feel that they lost a part of themself by marrying can point back to a long period of time where they had to put thier emotional needs on hold. My biggest failing early in the marriage was in thinking that my desire to show her that I could work hard and long hours to make her proud of me. Oddly, this didn't generate those warm and fuzzies in her. I'd have nobody to blame but myself if she missed the passion during the dating months.


Most women who don't feel like a priority will loose their sex drives for the person who isn't making them a priority.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So this got me thinking, are women prone to wanting "newness" more so than men?
> 
> That "in love" feeling and being courted makes her feel special but when that wears off, does she loose her drive because of that?
> 
> ...


I don't think this is gender-specific. Everyone LOVES the new feeling of a relationship, men and women alike. No matter what, in long term relationships, you will go through lulls, highs and lows, and the fact is, the newness wears off. In every relationship.

With that said, women do like to be courted. It's often said that women want the emotional connection to be consistent while men want the sexual connection to be consistent. Same.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Most women who don't feel like a priority will loose their sex drives for the person who isn't making them a priority.


You speak the truth!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think this is gender-specific. Everyone LOVES the new feeling of a relationship, men and women alike. No matter what, in long term relationships, you will go through lulls, highs and lows, and the fact is, the newness wears off. In every relationship.
> 
> With that said, women do like to be courted. It's often said that women want the emotional connection to be consistent while men want the sexual connection to be consistent. Same.


I think men can overlook the newness in a sense though. Regular sex and they are okay. Women on the other hand (from reading here) need the whirlwind romance to never die. 

Courted? Yup. Why do men stop doing this?!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think men can overlook the newness in a sense though. Regular sex and they are okay. Women on the other hand (from reading here) need the whirlwind romance to never die.
> 
> Courted? Yup. Why do men stop doing this?!


My wife said the appropriate term is 'pursued'. But she says it doesn't count if she is screaming in fear while being pursued because I'm doing my frankenstein impression. She certainly takes the fun out of it sometimes. Really though, she's talking about an emotional pursuit that fills her with hormones.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think men can overlook the newness in a sense though. Regular sex and they are okay. Women on the other hand (from reading here) need the whirlwind romance to never die.
> 
> Courted? Yup. Why do men stop doing this?!


I think theres enough blame on both sides of this one.


why do men stop courting. mostly because women stop doing the things that made their man want to court them.

they stopped keeping themselve looking good/sexy or stopped flirting or stopped caring about keeping there man happy in the bed room.

and then they have an idea something like if he really loved me I shouldn't have to wear sexy cloth anymore. or give bj,s anymore.

this also goes for men. they stop doing the things that keep a woman interested. Buying flowers is stupid,telling her she looks hot how many times do I have to tell her before she believes me. if she really loved me she would excapt that I show her love by providing for our family this other stuff is just marketing BS. to make hallmark richer.



I see it equally on both side of the marriage.

it takes 2 people interested in doing for eachother for a good marriage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Courted? Yup. Why do men stop doing this?!


IDK. But the men who stop doing this... it's sad. 



chillymorn said:


> and then they have an idea something like if he really loved me I shouldn't have to wear sexy cloth anymore. or give bj,s anymore


I have never understood people who do this. For men and women alike. I think people should take pride in their appearance. Sexless marriages are a mystery to me. Does not compute.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Joanie said:


> I am a woman in my late 40's and we are approaching our ten year anniversary. I would say that I am now a woman like you described in your post. The passion is totally gone and the "hot, or romantic sessions are few and far between. He still wants sex daily and I oblige most days but I just don't feel the desire for it the way I used to. I would say menopause is part of it but the bigger part is his lack of effort. He literally puts NO effort whatsoever into "wooing" me. Although I know I won't seek out an affair, I do miss the way he was in the early days of our relationship. Chris Rock had a comedy special years ago and in it he mentions that a man has a "representative" on the job the first year of a relationship. So true! I miss the late night cudding and talking sessions that ended in GREAT sex. Now he complains about work, watches bad tv and then off to bed before 9pm. So, for me....not a lot going on there to get me in the mood. I tell him this but he just laughs or shrugs it off. I doubt with that kind of response on his part things will improve. Bummer....but I guess not uncommon.


Yep, it is like he just expects I have to do this for him now. I cannot even get him to discuss things that are important to me. I mentioned I was offered a job interview and his response was 'what you do with your career is your decision'-- really, that is it?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> I think theres enough blame on both sides of this one.
> 
> 
> why do men stop courting. mostly because women stop doing the things that made their man want to court them.
> ...



I didn't... yes, I am not as thin as I used to be, 3 kids later, but I still dress nice, have my hair done, shave etc. Most of the time I just get, what are you all dressed up for? My husband was never great at romance, but he has gotten so bad now that he doesn't even talk to me. But yet, he still expected me to be enthusiastic about his daily sex...


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

everyone enjoys the "newness" of a relationship. A man gets the seven year itch just as well as a woman, even if regular sex is not an issue. Women say why doesn't my man court me anymore. A man says why do I get treated like I'm the runner up to our kids. I've said it a few times on this board but a major cause of a lot of relationship issues is that we drift into taking each other for granted. Then we start battling the symptoms:


Lack of sex
Lack of respect
Lack of emotional support
No affection


The list goes on and on. As a couple you have to fight against taking each other for granted. My belief as that souses need to put each other first even above the kids, mortgage, family, etc. If I am my wife's priority and she is mine then we should be able to handle most issues and treat each other how we desire to be treated.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

lisa3girls said:


> I didn't... yes, I am not as thin as I used to be, 3 kids later, but I still dress nice, have my hair done, shave etc. Most of the time I just get, what are you all dressed up for? My husband was never great at romance, but he has gotten so bad now that he doesn't even talk to me. But yet, he still expected me to be enthusiastic about his daily sex...


each relationship has a giver and a taker.

you seem to be a giver and hes a taker.



I am also a giver. But I thought giving was just something that should come natural to everybody who is married.

I mean giving is fun until you realise your hooked up with a taker then it slowly get old and resentment builds.


BOY WAS I WRONG.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> I am also a giver. But I thought giving was just something that should come natural to everybody who is married.
> 
> I mean giving is fun until you realise your hooked up with a taker then it slowly get old and resentment builds.


:iagree:


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> each relationship has a giver and a taker.
> 
> you seem to be a giver and hes a taker.
> 
> ...


And you know what.. when I started doing what I wanted to do, that was when he started to really withdraw and be miserable. He was always telling me for YEARS (dating and early in our marriage) don't wait around for me, I want to do what I want to do, make your own friends and your own life. Of course when the kids were tiny, it was impossible to do that... he did what he wanted-- hunting, fishing, having 'him' time and making a big deal out of it if he missed out on it or I asked him to do something with me or us. Then, the girls got older, and as they got into things (sports etc), I started just going with them, what the heck, he was constantly hunting and fishing and whatever, I was doing what he TOLD me to do and as an aside, I made some friends along the way (I am very good friends with a couple of the other skating moms). It is like he got what he asked for and now he doesn't like it.


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## Rosie123 (Sep 5, 2011)

All I can say is keep talking with your partners about what you need. Hopefully both are willing to put in the effort to keep the marriage strong. I agree that it becomes less of a priority over time with kids and work, etc. Just have to keep at it, and keep it a higher priority than all that stuff. It'd be a great lesson for the kids, as well! It's always about communication and the willingness to work for it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

So women need the "woo" in order to put out? 

If that's the case then how come guys aren't doing that in spades? Wouldn't that solve sexless marriages? Or do both sexes "withhold" if you will, deliberately?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So women need the "woo" in order to put out?
> 
> If that's the case then how come guys aren't doing that in spades? Wouldn't that solve sexless marriages? Or do both sexes "withhold" if you will, deliberately?


Don Quixote will be happy to field this one, once he's done with his windmills.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So women need the "woo" in order to put out?
> 
> If that's the case then how come guys aren't doing that in spades? Wouldn't that solve sexless marriages? Or do both sexes "withhold" if you will, deliberately?


life is about tit for tat and anyone who thinks differently is just mistaken. even if you don't think your like that your mind is silently keeping track and when it get to out of balance the resentment builds.


I don't mind wooing my wife as a matter of fact I'm buying a nice bottle of vino tonight so we can have some fun with each others company.

But I also need wooing (for a lack of a better trem) or should I say recipracation. Like her showing she still desires me by starting some intamacy with out me wooing.

I don't want to have to jump through hoops to make love to my wife everytime. 

each and every marriage is different.

but I at least want to feel desired and see some effort on my wifes part to show me she still has it for me instead of always being the one to show her I still have it for her.


when it get to far out of balance thats when the desire for her start to go out the window.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Don Quixote will be happy to field this one, once he's done with his windmills.


Not quite sure what this means. :scratchhead:


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> life is about tit for tat and anyone who thinks differently is just mistaken. even if you don't think your like that your mind is silently keeping track and when it get to out of balance the resentment builds.
> 
> 
> I don't mind wooing my wife as a matter of fact I'm buying a nice bottle of vino tonight so we can have some fun with each others company.
> ...


I think you are right that we tend to keep score. 
However, doesn't it seem like once the marriage has a few miles on it, wooing isn't a priority anymore?
Uggh, can't even remember the last time I got flowers and yes, I put out.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Not quite sure what this means. :scratchhead:


A literary reference of fighting a futile battle.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think you are right that we tend to keep score.
> However, doesn't it seem like once the marriage has a few miles on it, wooing isn't a priority anymore?
> Uggh, can't even remember the last time I got flowers and yes, I put out.


Isn't this just the hot/cold partner thing in action?

I used to send my wife flowers at work every few months. I wasn't looking for direct reciprocation, but I stopped after a while because it was one-sided - I never got those little sexual treats from her that I was hoping for. So why waste the effort if it is unappreciated.

And no, I don't think flowers = sex, but it would have been nice to have something once in a while.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> A literary reference of fighting a futile battle.


Hmmm, not sure what's futile about asking questions to maybe come up with solutions. Fuedal maybe.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Isn't this just the hot/cold partner thing in action?
> 
> I used to send my wife flowers at work every few months. I wasn't looking for direct reciprocation, but I stopped after a while because it was one-sided - I never got those little sexual treats from her that I was hoping for.


Not sure about the hot/cold thing. I do wonder though if women stop sex with their husband because they are not getting their needs met or is it something larger as I hinted in my first post that after the "in love" feeling wears off, their sex drive tapers for that person as well. Hence why I asked if women are more prone to wanting newness.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Hmmm, not sure what's futile about asking questions to maybe come up with solutions. Fuedal maybe.


LOL, I'm sorry Brighteyes, it's just a joke that has gone horribly wrong.

Why do men not woo their wives in spades to cure their sexless marriage? Because it is a futile battle.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think you are right that we tend to keep score.
> However, doesn't it seem like once the marriage has a few miles on it, wooing isn't a priority anymore?
> 
> 
> ...


Its only natural for a marriage with a few miles on it as you say to cool down a bit in the wooing department.

but its relative........... cooling down might mean to the husband to only send flowers on special occasions. or after the kids are born you stop all together because money is tight and milk is more important at the time but then when times are bettre Its dosn't seem to return to normal or an exceptable level of wooing.



so you put out .......well your husbands idea of how frequently put out might be different then yours. or he might like to try some things that you always refused or did begrudginly. so in his mind you arn't making the grade so resentment builds.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> LOL, I'm sorry Brighteyes, it's just a joke that has gone horribly wrong.
> 
> Why do men not woo their wives in spades to cure their sexless marriage? Because it is a futile battle.


most times this is the sad truth.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> LOL, I'm sorry Brighteyes, it's just a joke that has gone horribly wrong.
> 
> Why do men not woo their wives in spades to cure their sexless marriage? Because it is a futile battle.


How though? Okay, I'm taking me out of the equation as I am weird and don't need wooing but most women do. Read around here and the themes come in two forms: we don't have sex (him), I feel taken for granted (her).
Since those seem to be the top topics here, wouldn't there be some truth to wooing = more sex?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> so you put out .......well your husbands idea of how frequently put out might be different then yours. or he might like to try some things that you always refused or did begrudginly. so in his mind you arn't making the grade so resentment builds.


Oh boy. No, I have lived in a near sexless marriage for 17 years. Trust me, I don't "refuse" anything. He's the problem, not me.

I should have a Dutch tulip farm worth of flowers for the crap I have put up with.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How though? Okay, I'm taking me out of the equation as I am weird and don't need wooing but most women do. Read around here and the themes come in two forms: we don't have sex (him), I feel taken for granted (her).
> Since those seem to be the top topics here, wouldn't there be some truth to wooing = more sex?


Look at it this way... everyone always talks very nostalgic about "when we were dating". And when "we were dating", he dressed night, took her out, woo'd her, and could almost always count on something fun at the end of the night.

So, this would imply that the sexless marriage guy could dress up, take her out, woo her... and we know that's not going to be enough to cure the sexless marriage. He'll try harder and harder and harder and then he'll give up.

I'm sure there is a female equiv. to this, I'm just trying to stay on point with your question.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Acorn said:


> Look at it this way... everyone always talks very nostalgic about "when we were dating". And when "we were dating", he dressed night, took her out, woo'd her, and could almost always count on something fun at the end of the night.
> 
> So, this would imply that the sexless marriage guy could dress up, take her out, woo her... and we know that's not going to be enough to cure the sexless marriage. He'll try harder and harder and harder and then he'll give up.
> 
> I'm sure there is a female equiv. to this, I'm just trying to stay on point with your question.


I think the point is to never let it get to that case of having to chase his tail. At that stage, it IS futile. Basically you can't neglect someone for a long time and then expect it to be all sunshine and rainbows, no matter how hard you try to play catch up.
So why does the wooing stop in the first place? I think complacency and taking the other for granted. 
Or women have seen too many Jennifer Aniston movies.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How though? Okay, I'm taking me out of the equation as I am weird and don't need wooing but most women do. Read around here and the themes come in two forms: we don't have sex (him), I feel taken for granted (her).
> Since those seem to be the top topics here, wouldn't there be some truth to wooing = more sex?


How many times do you read:

"He only woos me to get sex - he should just woo me anyway. I'm not putting out when he woos me - that would tell him I can be bought" 

and / or

"I try wooing her - she knocks me back. Why should I waste my time?"

I guess it gets to the point that there's too much mutual mistrust and shared suspicion for something so simple to work.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Or women have seen too many Jennifer Aniston movies.


I think there are members of both sexes aren't capable of distinguishing fiction from reality. Women do NOT have a monopoly on this.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think there are members of both sexes aren't capable of distinguishing fiction from reality. Women do NOT have a monopoly on this.


Exactly. Ever been around a die hard Star Wars fan guy? 
No, light sabers are not going to carve your turkey in the future. Jesus.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Oh boy. No, I have lived in a near sexless marriage for 17 years. Trust me, I don't "refuse" anything. He's the problem, not me.
> 
> I should have a Dutch tulip farm worth of flowers for the crap I have put up with.


But the question is, what will you do with this assessment? I feel like my wife marched to her own drumbeat for 20 years, and I was just the guy waving from the crowd. I was the one who carried the passion. But even though many people ultimately come to a time where they realize their mistakes, something tells me that we won't get that heartfelt reckoning that part of us yearns for. So, what do you do with it?

In many cases, I believe that we can still reignight that passion with them, and it doesn't have to come from another, but it is so hard to lower the wall that came up when you finally came to the realization that you were alone in the marriage. In her own way, my wife thought that she was following the same drumbeat. It just seemed inconceivable that my needs could be different than hers, so my words were just gibberish through the years. Something tells me that maybe your husband just pulled away. period.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> But the question is, what will you do with this assessment? I feel like my wife marched to her own drumbeat for 20 years, and I was just the guy waving from the crowd. I was the one who carried the passion. But even though many people ultimately come to a time where they realize their mistakes, something tells me that we won't get that heartfelt reckoning that part of us yearns for. So, what do you do with it?
> 
> In many cases, I believe that we can still reignight that passion with them, and it doesn't have to come from another, but it is so hard to lower the wall that came up when you finally came to the realization that you were alone in the marriage. In her own way, my wife thought that she was following the same drumbeat. It just seemed inconceivable that my needs could be different than hers, so my words were just gibberish through the years. Something tells me that maybe your husband just pulled away. period.


What do I do with it? Plan a managed exit, that's what. 
I don't think I was marching to my own beat, but I really don't know. He would probably tell you a different story being that there are many sides to a story.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> What do I do with it? Plan a managed exit, that's what.
> I don't think I was marching to my own beat, but I really don't know. He would probably tell you a different story being that there are many sides to a story.


I hope I wasn't offending by not being clear. My situation was just very different. When a person goes through chronic depression, her measure of success in all things becomes feeling happy, while other marriages focus on mutual emotional fulfillment if happy. My being happy at times, she thought that this should be enough.

I know that most times its just a matter of a disparity in how much effort each puts into the marriage.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I think resentment is at the bottom of this little mystery. Things slowly evolve over time, our partners become less of a priority and in the process little resentments become bricks in a large wall. 

For me, I have huge walls up, and low energy to invest in fixing it. So what starts promising, say wife texts to say she wants to make love that evening after work, becomes a failed evening, because when she gets home I don't get a hug, or she seems disinterested in me, and I've conditioned myself not to put too much stock in promises. So the night's a bust of an spoken resentment. We both feel hurt and another brick gets added.

Then the next night we have a good night chatting and I let me defence down a bit, try to initiate and get, "really?" to my effort. Immediately get deflated and withdraw. The next day send an email "communicating" (which I should surely know better by now) that my feelings were hurt by the callous way she turns me down, and another brick, another brick, another brick.

I see these patterns. I know when I contribute to them. I feel powerless to stop them. It's really an awful cycle. 

Sorry to thread jack.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> I think resentment is at the bottom of this little mystery. Things slowly evolve over time, our partners become less of a priority and in the process little resentments become bricks in a large wall.
> 
> For me, I have huge walls up, and low energy to invest in fixing it. So what starts promising, say wife texts to say she wants to make love that evening after work, becomes a failed evening, because when she gets home I don't get a hug, or she seems disinterested in me, and I've conditioned myself not to put too much stock in promises. So the night's a bust of an spoken resentment. We both feel hurt and another brick gets added.
> 
> ...


You didn't thread jack and I truly understand your situation. 
Where did her attitude come from? What I mean is no relationship just suddenly "changes" from happy to brick layering. 
Was it score keeping as in she isn't doing this for me so I am not doing that?
I think that is what happened in my marriage, though not sure.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I think it just started with kids and life. Less sex than I wanted, then the kids came, I was getting less of what i needed, so I guess I subconsciously just withheld what she needed. I just assumed it would get better after the kids got older and we had more money. 

Then the relationship imploded for a number of years which exacerbates things now. 

But more broadly, I think it's three things: lack of awareness (of your self and/or your spouse), unmet needs, and resulting resentments. Which plays out like this:

I lack awareness of your needs. Your needs go unmet which creates a resentment. You withhold what I need. My needs go unmet, which creates a resentments. Repeat. Until it's at the point of, I'm not sure what the h*ll you need, and even if I DID know, I'm not willing to be vulnerable enough to meet them because the personal risk of rejection is too high.

It just get so bad and interwound that both the man and women can feel so lost.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> I think it just started with kids and life. Less sex than I wanted, then the kids came, I was getting less of what i needed, so I guess I subconsciously just withheld what she needed. I just assumed it would get better after the kids got older and we had more money.
> 
> Then the relationship imploded for a number of years which exacerbates things now.
> 
> ...


Wow, your post is so, so true. Tear producing true.
That's my problem now. He is trying so hard, finally. He wants us to be a couple again and he constantly says "let's move forward and not dwell in the past". In theory, that sounds wonderful. In reality? How do you forget? Or rather, how do you forgive when there are no answers just "lets forget about what happened and start anew". How do you quell the fears that history won't repeat itself when there are no answers as to why it happened in the first place?
Scary place to be, that's for sure.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Wow, your post is so, so true. Tear producing true.
> That's my problem now. He is trying so hard, finally. He wants us to be a couple again and he constantly says "let's move forward and not dwell in the past". In theory, that sounds wonderful. In reality? How do you forget? Or rather, how do you forgive when there are no answers just "lets forget about what happened and start anew". How do you quell the fears that history won't repeat itself when there are no answers as to why it happened in the first place?
> Scary place to be, that's for sure.


It is scary. 

Here's how I'd think about it:

- If he is trying now, and objectively is giving what you need, past resentments aside AND
- The past that you are forgetting about is not rug-sweeping (i.e. infidelity, past abuse, BIG things that don't get to be rug-swept)

Then you take the leap of faith and try to operate in the present as much as possible. You accept love and you give it as best you can in the WAY he needs it. 

And probably what happens is you get happier.

But, only if those two conditions exist. If he cheated and wants to avoid dealing with that, for example, or what he's giving you isn't what you need, just obvious placating, then you keep fighting for what you need until you can't fight anymore and then you give up.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> It is scary.
> 
> Here's how I'd think about it:
> 
> ...


He never cheated. Neither did I.
We both hurt each other though. I have owned this and in no way blame him for what I did. I own my share of what happened. I know that hurtful words and cruel comments cut to the bone and I fully hold myself responsible for what I said. He on the other hand says that he ignored me based on my comments and refuses (to this day) to say his actions were deliberate and calculated. Instead, he says he is a conflict avoider (in relationships, not career) and that it was his reaction to my behavior. That doesn't sound like ownership at all. It sounds like excusing his behavior. Blaming me for his actions as if he was powerless to act any other way. 
THAT is my hurdle at this point. His failure to own up to what he has done. It sucks. He wants to move forward and all I can think about is yeah, he wants to move forward nearly blameless for his actions. He was "just reactionary". Um, okay. If we are going with that, then after 17 years of a nearly sexless marriage, would it be okay for me to screw other men and say it was HIS fault I did it? Really? I doubt that would fly with him.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> It is scary.
> 
> Here's how I'd think about it:
> 
> ...


That's a great way to approach it, I believe. There is also something about what is going on with your husband that could possibly be very subtle, yet it is an aspect that should possibly be considered. You know you are a very strong person. Do you realize that there is a part of most men that feel very intimidated by a mate who can realistically outsmart us, run a family while making it look easy, and even seems to have more endurance in day to day life? A whole heap of paradoxical behaviors get mixed in - denying, avoiding, etc. But at the end of the day, something triggered him to realize that he was lucky all along, so now he's stepping back up to the marriage. The subtle part is that he screwed up from a practical perspective, but from a realistic perspective, maybe you married someone who perhaps more emotionally mature than many of his peers, but was still well behind you in emotional maturity and capacity.

Maybe I'm way off base. Its just surprising how many marriages you see where one partner is very emotionally mature, and knows exactly what they want out of life and the relationship, while the other is just still fumbling around in the dark for a long while. There is nothing cute or endearing about the emotional immaturity either, and it leaves the more mature partner feeling very unfulfilled. But 17 years??? If so, you've put a lot of work into the guy, so there has to be some dividends coming soon, maybe?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree with Halien. 

I would believe him that he didn't know any better. Not to excuse his behaviour, but getting hung up on him admitting to deliberately hurting you when he believes he didn't do it deliberately is not productive. If you can't get past that, then end things. Otherwise accept it and move on, unless you want another 17 years of misery.

Seriously, at some point you have to decide to be happy.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Seriously, at some point you have to decide to be happy.


I think I've said this before, but there seem to be a great many people who prefer to be angry and dwell on every little thing from the past than to be happy in the present.

It's as if they take comfort in anger and resentment, and won't abandon that comfort even for the chance of something better. Or they'd rather make sure no-one is happy than run the risk that it doesn't play out for them, and their partner comes out ahead.:scratchhead:


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> I think resentment is at the bottom of this little mystery. Things slowly evolve over time, our partners become less of a priority and in the process little resentments become bricks in a large wall.
> 
> For me, I have huge walls up, and low energy to invest in fixing it. So what starts promising, say wife texts to say she wants to make love that evening after work, becomes a failed evening, because when she gets home I don't get a hug, or she seems disinterested in me, and I've conditioned myself not to put too much stock in promises. So the night's a bust of an spoken resentment. We both feel hurt and another brick gets added.
> 
> ...




You are being seriously abused. Question is why are you taking the abuse? What is it in you that allows you to stay with a woman who abuses the man you are?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> I think it just started with kids and life. Less sex than I wanted, then the kids came, I was getting less of what i needed, so I guess I subconsciously just withheld what she needed. I just assumed it would get better after the kids got older and we had more money.
> 
> Then the relationship imploded for a number of years which exacerbates things now.
> 
> ...


I’m pretty certain that’s how things go for many long term marriages. People don’t change that much over their lifetime. So in essence both husband and wife are “more or less” the same people they were twenty/thirty years ago when they first met.

But what REALLY changes is that after twenty or thirty years there can be a massive amount of resentment between the husband and wife. This can be on both sides, both have resentment, or it can be just with the husband or wife.

Resentment is anger and strong dislike (hatred) for another person. How on earth can love possibly grow when either the wife hates the husband or the husband hates the wife let alone if both the husband and wife hate one another and there’s anger in the mix. And it’s not an active anger, over and done with in a few minutes or so, it’s a passive anger sitting inside them for years and maybe decades and getting it’s expression by hurting the person they are supposedly in love with.

Resentment kills love. Resentment is only ever cleansed from a person by forgiveness. And sure it is much easier done when you know what you are forgiving and apologies do help. But most don’t even know how to make a sincere and heartfelt apology let alone HOW to forgive.

I’m firmly of the belief that if you cannot forgive the person you are married to then not only you are better off out of your marriage but so is your partner as well.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think this is gender-specific. Everyone LOVES the new feeling of a relationship, men and women alike. No matter what, in long term relationships, you will go through lulls, highs and lows, and the fact is, the newness wears off. In every relationship.
> 
> With that said, women do like to be courted. It's often said that women want the emotional connection to be consistent while men want the sexual connection to be consistent. Same.


Absolutely. Men and woman have their needs. i.e. His Needs Her Needs.

Also this is not a one way street. The situation tends to spiral or maybe more accurately ratchet down. It takes two partners to succeed in marriage and usually it is two partners who fail in marriage.

So while often men bury themselves in work, it can actually be them seeking something that is missing in the relationship. Often the kids become more important than the marriage. Woman can bury themselves in their careers as well.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Wow, your post is so, so true. Tear producing true.
> That's my problem now. He is trying so hard, finally. He wants us to be a couple again and he constantly says "let's move forward and not dwell in the past". In theory, that sounds wonderful. In reality? How do you forget? Or rather, how do you forgive when there are no answers just "lets forget about what happened and start anew". How do you quell the fears that history won't repeat itself when there are no answers as to why it happened in the first place?
> Scary place to be, that's for sure.


TRBE,

Came across this thread in my wanderings and was going to make a response, but then I saw this post from you. 

I cannot resist responding to this. Have you ever listened to this song? It's pertinent for your user name, and contains the key.

Bonnie Tyler - total eclipse of the heart - YouTube

You ask, how do you forget? You may not ever forget, but time and looking forward, not backward, will diminish its sting.

You ask, how do you forgive? It's a conscious choice. Everyday, you push the thoughts of hurt and blame away. Don't feed your fears, starve them instead. 

Would you rather cling to the past and the hurt and blame, or move forward?

"_Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future_." ~Paul Boese

What do you want your future to be?

In listening to the song I linked it says "Forever's going to start tonight" so "Turn around, Bright Eyes". YOU can take the first step today, tonight to mending your relationship and letting go of the fear. TURN AROUND, Bright Eyes. You don't have to have a total eclipse of your heart.

Wishing you all the best.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Here is my pearl of wisdom on this subject. I'm good for one pearl a week ...

There comes a point where the core of the problem is no longer about what our partner will not change or will not do.

The core of the problem is what we will not change or will not do.

Our choice to tolerate the intolerable, or be unable to let go of past hurts is not their fault. It's our own.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Wow, your post is so, so true. Tear producing true.
> That's my problem now. *He is trying so hard, finally.* He wants us to be a couple again and he constantly says "let's move forward and not dwell in the past". In theory, that sounds wonderful. In reality? How do you forget? Or rather, how do you forgive when there are no answers just "lets forget about what happened and start anew". How do you quell the fears that history won't repeat itself when there are no answers as to why it happened in the first place?
> Scary place to be, that's for sure.


I can very much understand how you feel here. On the one hand it is great to have a new beginning. But on the other is rational fear that history will be repeated. It is hard to open your heart again and again.

I think you know where I stand on this. And please forgve me for being a romantic here. I can relate to your husband in many ways. Good and bad. I can tell you that when it clicked for me ... when I finally got it ... I really got it. Maybe he has too.

I hope you focus on "He is trying so hard, finally". You can embrace this and take the opportunity to make changes in your self as well as your relationship. To start it anew. You guys have to be spending quality time together. You have to see tangible changes in the relationship. Effort is worth something if it is coming from the heart.

The goal is to love each other of course but to pusure the in love with each other is really what this is all about. You want both.

Go for it. Don't let fear stop you. Go all in. Be willing to make changes with yourself as well.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bob,

I know this is true.

I'm a pharmacist and we have a bit of dark humor about how many older folks come in almost immediately AFTER their spouse has died looking happier than we've ever seen them.

I'm sure they're just celebrating the life of their "loved one" - don't you think?



AFEH said:


> I’m pretty certain that’s how things go for many long term marriages. People don’t change that much over their lifetime. So in essence both husband and wife are “more or less” the same people they were twenty/thirty years ago when they first met.
> 
> But what REALLY changes is that after twenty or thirty years there can be a massive amount of resentment between the husband and wife. This can be on both sides, both have resentment, or it can be just with the husband or wife.
> 
> ...


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I had a very active sex life with varied partners, before I married. I felt ready to settle down with one man and I know that I have 10 barrels of wild oats sowed. :rofl:

Yet sometimes I look at my husband and think: "This is the *only man *I will ever kiss or make love to until one of us dies." The thought scares the crap out of me! We are in love and we enjoy sexual intimacy at this time, but how will we feel in ten or twenty years? It's impossible to know for sure. 

I still admire sexy men, particularly ones that are the opposite of my husband in terms of looks. I have politely turned down offers and when I do, I still have an inkling of temptation. I know that sounds awful, but it is the truth. 

My husband has not stopped courting me for five years, which is a good sign. I'm not a woman that _requires _flowers and romance to be sexual. I still appreciate it on special days though. I love the sweet emails he still sends me. He loves the dirty phone calls at his desk.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Most women who don't feel like a priority will loose their sex drives for the person who isn't making them a priority.


Amen sister. They will hopefully divorce this jackass too.

(not typing to you Halien, just myself :rofl


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Such inspiring posts & pearls from Enchantment (love the song example -and BRIGHT EYES -that is amazing!!) , Deejo & Entrophy. So true. 

I have a book called "Feel the Fear & do it anyway". The title alone is wisdom, it IS what helps us overcome our deepest fears in this life. And the walking in it becomes so much easier once you throw yourself out there & *refuse *to come back to where you have been, even if you have to fight it every inch of the way. 












Bright Eyes, you never cheated on him... he never cheated on you!! doesn't this speak something BEAUTIFUL in this day and age? I am sure he had plenty of opportunities, , but he chose NOT to. Do not overlook this , even getting on your knees to cherish this fact. HE IS TRYING SO HARD. Listen to your words. Chances are - he will NEVER live up to what you are looking for (right now) ....BUT if you take the first step , allowing him these weaknesses of his, even his own DROWNING fears, being the stronger partner with the VISION of hope inside of you, you may help HIM overcome these things you hate & can't get past -an opening up he has never allowed with another. 

It has to start with someone, the willing with a vision, a vision of a NEW BEGINNING, even a NEW mindset in how you see him- react to what he is doing TODAY, since he is trying so hard -appreciate that, let these thoughts rise up within you, not memories of hurt of the past. Fight that everyday, to put it DOWN. Understand, he likely fears vulnerability more than you, why he has not been able to give you what you are so desiring from him. 


Maybe I am all wet here, don't know the whole story (forgive me), but if you LOVE someone & desire with everything in you -this is what you want, you got to take the bull by the horns and put yourself out there, even to tell him/ share with him YOU WANT TO FORGIVE, and to ask for his forgiveness as you still struggle here. I wonder if this is what he desires the MOST in life FROM YOU ?? If so, you truly have the answer !! 

It's a start, it's a touching of he souls, it's a putting of yourself out there!

It is a humble road to reach the Glory . 

Unfortunetely it works that way. *Is HE worth it *? His not cheating on you tells me he feels YOU ARE, receive that. Fight your way to "Rest" in it, believe it. Haven't you been married like over 18 yrs or so? Don't waste any more years , tears , anger over words of the past. If you are going to get broken, you want it to be because of how much you LOVE, not how much you RESENT. Fight to tear down these walls of concrete you both have built towards each other. 











Just as he will need to bare with you in your struggle to forgive fully with your heart, You will need to forgive him for not "getting it" - "living up to the expectations you are wanting right now" ...but that doesnt mean they will not come. Believe that.


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## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Amen sister. They will hopefully divorce this jackass too.
> 
> (not typing to you Halien, just myself :rofl


Why is it that a handful of the women on this site feel the need to constantly go into name calling mode when the subject comes to men? 

The simple fact is that women deprioritize men just as much if not more than the men do. My wife has done that to me. Should I divorce the jackass?

Just sayin.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

rotor said:


> Why is it that a handful of the women on this site feel the need to constantly go into name calling mode when the subject comes to men?
> 
> The simple fact is that women deprioritize men just as much if not more than the men do. My wife has done that to me. Should I divorce the jackass?
> 
> Just sayin.


I was really talking directly to brighteyes about my own experience of which she knows about because we've talked about it. My husband has chosen time and time again to not make me a priority. I'm choosing to say it's not good enough for me.

If you'd like to divorce your jackass you should. Jackasses come in all sizes, genders and ethnicity. No worries.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Amen sister. They will hopefully divorce this jackass too.
> 
> (not typing to you Halien, just myself :rofl


Understood. Also, when I replied about new ways of trying to look at the relationship, I was in no way trying to diminish the hurt that Brighteyes has felt.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Halien said:


> Understood. Also, when I replied about new ways of trying to look at the relationship, I was in no way trying to diminish the hurt that Brighteyes has felt.


This is how I feel too. I am so NOT one who thinks spouses should stay for kids , even for vows when you get down to it. If one feels there is NO HOPE, no restoration, no new beginnings if they get "stuck" years at a time, why continue the merry go round? My own parents divorced, it was *necessary *for their own happiness & sanity -for themselves to be whole with another.

I am with AHEF when he said this ...


> I’m firmly of the belief that if you cannot forgive the person you are married to then not only you are better off out of your marriage but so is your partner as well.


 If you are choosing to stay, you need to be SOFT, OPEN, workable, and go OUT OF YOUR WAY , walk that extra mile -even if they are NOT (if has to start with someone, someone to carry the other for a little while) -to see how far , how deep, how wide they can go with you, how much love is truly there. 

It IS a test in a way, you are seeking what is there deep within, if LOVE can not penetrate it, then you will have your answer once & for all, you will know when even you give YOUR BEST, it is not enough to shake them, to move them closer to you. 

ONLY After you have done this, bared your heart & soul (when you feel they are truly trying of coarse- them NOT trying or caring would be unfathomable -this is why people fall into affairs)........ and it STILL IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, you know in your heart of hearts, you will never be happy/fullfilled/satisfied with what they lack, still craving more.


Then we have 2 choices ...start focusing on the good , either we have to adjust ourselves & our thinking to be content with who they are and what they can give ... OR we seriously NEED to Separate , Divorce, END THE merry go round of misery. 


Free yourself, pursue your dreams, plenty of other craving souls out there looking for the same thing you are. I believe some personalties are serioulsy NOT compatible, no matter what they do, they will never be happy with each other. For those, it is time to "put a stake in it".


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I think men can overlook the newness in a sense though. Regular sex and they are okay. Women on the other hand (from reading here) need the whirlwind romance to never die.
> 
> Courted? Yup. Why do men stop doing this?!


Probably for the same reason women stop doing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Halien said:


> My wife said the appropriate term is 'pursued'. But she says it doesn't count if she is screaming in fear while being pursued because I'm doing my frankenstein impression. She certainly takes the fun out of it sometimes. Really though, she's talking about an emotional pursuit that fills her with hormones.


This is true.

I want to be persued, and I don't understand what is so hard about it.

Pay some attention, give some time, send some sexy and or loving text messages, flirt a little, look at her a few times day like you really see her, love her and (truly) notice what you think is beautiful about her. 

Act like you did in the beginning, when you were dying to talk to her, don't act like she is interrupting your day.

Love her, talk to her and be close with her.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I've thought of this topic so much because I feel like I'm in a similar situation as many on this site. When I go through individual counseling, the therapist said that this is often the case. One partner in many marriages like this is very aware of the fact that marriage should be something incredibly special, magical, where two people share a journey so deep, that even their flaws are matched by either strength or understanding from the partner. When the other partner never shares this vision, or is oblivious to it, the hurt feels almost like grieving. Its easy to complete the grief cycle by pushing them out of your life completly.

I don't know - I just seem to sense a little of this behind the scenes in many of the threads concerning long term marriages.

For me, it is the same, but with an added component that saps away the hope at times. In trying to reconcile, I sometimes think that my wife is finally catching on. Like this week, when she sat beside me a couple of nights with touching, holding, and smiling. However, as in the past, her face suddenly became clouded with something that looks like anger one night. She snaps a little comments that would have been overlooked just a day before. If it is part of the normal bipolar cycle she follows, she's becoming fixated on the belief that I'm harboring negative thoughts about an innocent action, and an ugly fight will have to ensue before coming close again. She refuses to see this cycle, or admit that it exists. Even after apolgizing, she'll say that it is just her.

I feel like we are at the mercy of her disease.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Halien said:


> I've thought of this topic so much because I feel like I'm in a similar situation as many on this site. When I go through individual counseling, the therapist said that this is often the case. One partner in many marriages like this is very aware of the fact that marriage should be something incredibly special, magical, where two people share a journey so deep, that even their flaws are matched by either strength or understanding from the partner. When the other partner never shares this vision, or is oblivious to it, the hurt feels almost like grieving. Its easy to complete the grief cycle by pushing them out of your life completly.
> 
> I don't know - I just seem to sense a little of this behind the scenes in many of the threads concerning long term marriages.
> 
> ...


Halien ~

I don't really know what to say that will make things better, other than I feel for you.

There is not what I would call a 'perfect' marriage where both partners are always aligned and in tune with each other. It's a journey you take together and sometimes you are in step with each other and sometimes you are not.

With your wife's illness, you have a special 'burden' or a special 'opportunity', depending upon how you are willing to approach it.

"_The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials_." ~ Dutch Proverb 

In my own marriage I have found that it is the challenges that have presented the most opportunity for personal growth which has in turn enriched my marriage. The following sentiment pretty much echoes what I have realized in myself, especially over the last year. 

"_I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders_." ~ Jewish Proverb

Since my oldest has recently been sending me clips and songs from youtube, I have spent some time wandering around there. Here's a song I found for you: India.Arie - Strength Courage & Wisdom lyrics - YouTube

May you find strength, courage, and wisdom today.

God Bless.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

This is really a good point.

It may be a bit less artfully worded than some would hope.

Emasculation seems to be the road chosen -unless you can figure out how to stop it.




rotor said:


> Why is it that a handful of the women on this site feel the need to constantly go into name calling mode when the subject comes to men?
> 
> The simple fact is that women deprioritize men just as much if not more than the men do. My wife has done that to me. Should I divorce the jackass?
> 
> Just sayin.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Conrad said:


> This is really a good point.
> 
> It may be a bit less artfully worded than some would hope.
> 
> Emasculation seems to be the road chosen -unless you can figure out how to stop it.


True, Conrad.

They say that people only treat us as we teach them to or allow them to treat us.

But I like this also and maybe we should take it to heart:

“_Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be_.” 
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson


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