# What would you do as a parent if you know your son/daughter are being unfaithful



## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Hello TAM,

I have been away for a bit because I am having trouble with my kids. Son will get deployed to Afghanistan in less than a month and I am worried sick for his well being when he is over there. I have been spending more time with him since he will be leaving from 9 months to a year.

My daughter was, and still is the one that worries me the most. She had an affair when her first daughter was born and she managed to keep it all a secret and her husband didn't find out. He had suspicions but never real proof. 

That ended and she stupidly thought that if she had another child and worked on her marriage this would not happen again. I always feared not if, but when she would do it again. That day sadly is here. I noticed she was hardly ever home and was distant with her husband as well as her two kids. I point blank told her that if she was thinking of leaving her husband for this other man, she was going to mess up everyone's life for nothing as no ONE could make her happy because happiness comes from within.

I was right. She was seeing some idiot that she met at the gym (we all know gyms are ***** houses in disguise). She says she doesn't love her husband. I told her she doesn't love this guy either, and this gym ***** probably has other side pieces on the side and not just her. I also told her that she would never be truly happy. That is an illusion. She needed to work on her marriage because she was going to throw away a wonderful family for nothing. She said that that was the only thing stopping her from leaving. She was wondering if she was the only one that was ****ed up like this.

I told her no, most of us are screwed up too, but we turn to other outlets to make us happy. Cheating on our partners was never one for me. I had hobbies, went out with girlfriends, went back to school. Got into church etc. Getting involved in affairs would not only damage her family, it would terribly hurt her as well. I also told her that this period of seeking happiness from men will pass once she realizes how badly she is being used. She says she already feels very guilty and confused, but she loves the gym *****. 

I of course know that is not true. Her feelings of love are temporary and won't last. I told her if she had fallen in love with her husband again after she ended her first affair. She said yes, but then here she is 4 years later. She says she can't fake it with her husband, she doesn't love him. Of course she doesn't. She is in the affair high right now. 

The problem is that her husband is not stupid, his gut is screaming that something is wrong. He pushes her and she gives the usual cheater responses that he wants to control her. The more he pushes, the more she detaches. It's really bad, it's pure hell. 

Today was her day off and she left early in the morning and didn't come home til dinner time. He was of course furious. He is upset because she doesn't even spend time with the kids. He doesn't know how to fix her. He doesn't understand he can't fix what he didn't break. This is all on her. It has always been all on her. That doesn't change the fact that I can't tell him to wake up and let her go because my grand kids would suffer terribly. Their father is everything to them. They don't ask mom for anything, it is always their daddy. 

My grand kids and he would lose the most in all this mess. He is most certainly the better parent, but he will only see them every other weekend, Christmas, summer etc. I am torn. I know he deserves the truth, but it's my grand children I care the most about. Their mommy will not take good care of them like their father does, and there is no way she will hand them over to him and give him custody most of the time and for her to only see them every other weekend etc. 

I am just venting here because in reality I know that keeping her secret is wrong, but I am not doing a thing to open up his eyes or appease his gut. If the truth needs to be known, which it should; his gut needs to get louder and he needs to snoop or find a way to know the truth that he fears is staring him in the face. 

Did any of you have a child do this to their significant other? How did you deal with this awful truth about your own flesh and blood?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Why would he get only every other weekend? Tell him. His life is already ruined. He is living a lie. You would want him to tell you. Let him make the choice, not you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

He will not get primary custody. The state we live in always gives primary custody to the mother regardless of who is the better parent. I know, I worked in the school system my whole life and saw this over and over as a counselor. The mother would be the one to accept leaving the kids most of the time with dad, I know my daughter will never do that. 

Your advice is not useful for me, not because it is not the way to go, but because I simply can't do it. Sorry, it is easier said than done when it's your flesh and blood's well being that is at stake here; my grand kids' well being has more weight for me, than telling my SIL the truth. 

If the chips fall where they should because he listens to his gut, then so be it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd first point out that she's not going to be able to love her husband (or even her kids) for as long as gym douche is injecting her with a fresh dose of PEA/NRE chemicals at every turn.

And whether she ended it or not, I'd urge her to confess the truth to her husband. In front of me.

If she refused I'd likely produce a VAR containing a few juicy conversational excerpts.

I'd also urge my STBXSIL to a) DNA the kiddos and b) file for divorce.

And if she turned into an entitled she-demon during divorce proceedings I'd likely throw my support behind the STBXSIL and get access to the kids through him.

If she went too far off the deep end I'll likely disown her.

Geeeeez I'm glad I don't have kids.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I
> 
> Geeeeez I'm glad I don't have kids.


Exactly! It's harder when they came from you to disown them. Way easier said than done indeed.

a parent's love is the closest to unconditional love you will get in this world. I love my daughter and she knows this. I will never throw her to the curb, never! 

I did tell her that there is no way she can love her husband if she is still seeing the gym *****. She managed to fall back in love with her husband when she finally confessed to me that she was having an affair with a howorker. I advised her that the douche bag was just using her and that she was just one of several and of course I was right. She was devastated, but yet here we are in the same ole **** 4 years later and now with two kids instead of just one that was barely over a year old when this happened the first time around.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Bibi1031 said:


> Hello TAM,
> 
> I have been away for a bit because I am having trouble with my kids. Son will get deployed to Afghanistan in less than a month and I am worried sick for his well being when he is over there. I have been spending more time with him since he will be leaving from 9 months to a year.
> 
> ...


I know this is your daughter, let your son in law know what is happening, your daughter is a serial cheater. Tell your SIL to go scorched earth, how can you condone this behaviour by staying quiet while your SIL suffers! :wtf:

Your daughter is out of control, be a mother and discipline her, she needs to suffer the consequences of her actions and they are HER actions. You are not doing the grandkids any favours because she is abandoning them by not spending time with them as she is so far up her own ass with the OM. How can you let this continue. Your SIL sounds like a decent sort of guy, tell him and tell her you are going to tell him. She may be angry but she will thank you in the future, let her see what she is about to lose.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Bibi1031 said:


> He will not get primary custody. The state we live in always gives primary custody to the mother regardless of who is the better parent. I know, I worked in the school system my whole life and saw this over and over as a counselor. The mother would be the one to accept leaving the kids most of the time with dad, I know my daughter will never do that.
> 
> Your advice is not useful for me, not because it is not the way to go, but because I simply can't do it. Sorry, it is easier said than done when it's your flesh and blood's well being that is at stake here; my grand kids' well being has more weight for me, than telling my SIL the truth.
> 
> If the chips fall where they should because he listens to his gut, then so be it.


Then Bibi why are you on here if you do not want to listen to any advice that does not match want you want to do. I am disgusted. if it was my daughter I would have no problems whatsoever in telling her poor H. I dont care about blood! Whe your own flesh and blood is being less than they can be and acting like a w**** when she has two little kids, come on ffs!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

When he finds out (and I'm saying when, not if), and when he finds out you knew and didn't tell him, he will count you among another of the parents who would rather protect their direct blood than the family unit as a whole. He will likely never want to communicate with you again and could possibly take action to ensure you have minimal contact with your grandchildren, if he feels betrayed and hurt enough. 

Meanwhile, you know your daughter is doing wrong. You know you didn't raise her this way. You know that those children are being neglected by her because of her affair fog. You know she's an individual and reaps what she sews. Yet you still protect her. That's your choice, but this is why we say infidelity touches so many more than the immediate couple. For all you know, her husband could see you as a willing participant, encouraging her to carry on in her affair because you did nothing different. 

Yes, it's her life, but you have more than a daughter in your family. You accepted and have a son. Does he deserve any less care? What if their roles were reversed? Would you tell your daughter if HE was having an affair? 

Of course you would. Think about why.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Bibi

If your daughter continues in her affair, one of three things is very likely to happen:

- She will become so obsessed/addicted to her AP that she will leave her husband (and possibly her children). (Your attitude towards her AP speaks volumes - imagine him as semi-permanent part of your grandchildren's lives.) The likely outcome of THAT relationship is highly unlikely to be a positive force ... for anyone (even your daughter). And most especially for your grandchildren. 

- It will peter out as her previous one did, without her husband ever knowing anything for certain. However, like a cancerous lesion, this weakness will gnaw at their whole family ... until it happens for a third or even fourth time (because your daughter has still not learnt from her mistakes), or her husband simply chooses to end a marriage that causes him such pain and disillusionment. In the meantime, your grandchildren live in an environment poisoned by hurt and deceit. Part of family that is not really a family at all.

- Her husband will begin to gather evidence for himself (after posting on TAM or a similar forum). The probable outcome for that, given your daughter's apparent extreme lack of remorse and the fact that she is now a serial cheater, is not a pretty one. And, as previous posters have mentioned, he will very likely see you as an enabler in this situation (I know that I would under similar circumstances). 

I can appreciate that any positive action against the affair on your part right now only seems to lead to pain. But inaction will only lead to more. It is natural to want to protect our children whenever possible - even from themselves. But your daughter is an addict. And unless you intervene now, the likely outcomes just keep getting more and more negative for all involved. Your daughter is standing before you, unashamed by her behaviour. The thought of admitting to my mother what she has admitted to you ... and then continuing in it? It sickens me. The reality is that people under the influence of infidelity become the worst possible versions of themselves. This is no longer the time to try and "nice" her out of it. You need to stand up and make her experience consequences or understand that she will remain who she has become. And I say that as a mother and someone who has experienced the pain of infidelity. 

I am sorry for the very painful dilemma that you are in.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

How much do you think your desire to protect your son (where you can do very little but pray for his safety) is influencing your ability to cause your daughter pain (even if it is for her own good)?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*What hard evidence is there that those kids of hers is even from her H's lineage?

I'm pretty much in line with those who say, that with her sordid social history with other men, that he should have absolutely no problem in DNAing them!

And if legally found not to be his children and that he pursues divorce, she would not be able to get as much as one nickels worth of child support from him!*


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Bibi, there's going to be a lot of opinion here you don't want to read I reckon. That's your choice. But after re-reading your response about custody, I'm hurting for your son in law. Men can have it tough enough without that slap in the face. Imagine your son in law's face if you said to him it's guaranteed the state would choose your daughter over him for primary custody. A mother who is neglecting the kids emotionally and is not behaving rationally. Not a good exemplar at this time in her life. Sure, you can't influence law and process, but you can do right by him and tell the truth. 

That's just my opinion. I appreciate your contributions here. In this case, while I understand the difficult place you find yourself in, I imagine you'd dish out the same advice to a stranger if they posted your same situation. That's what sets apart the gum-flappers here from those who dispense quality advice. The quality people (IMO) recommend nothing they either haven't done themselves or wouldn't do themselves. I admit that I could be wrong, but it's what I believe.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

My inlaws were on the same predicament last year.
My brother in law (my inlaws son) was cheating on his wife.
They didn't tell her and it blew up completely.
She threatened to keep their grandchild from them and she got herself a good lawyer and played all sorts of nasty tricks.
End result is we hardly see that little boy anymore and neither does his father.
I would suggest telling and getting everything out in the open.
He is going to find out eventually and the end result will be worse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

For me, family are people that are given the benefit of the doubt, who when all else is equal, will get preferrence. Family is not a carte blanche ticket to do what ever, and have my support. If they do crappy things, I'm going to call them out on it. I have expecatations of my family. I will not be an enabler or supporter.

Given this situation where the grand kids are concerned, the daughter is proven unreliable, and likely wouldn't do much to ensure that the grand parents get time with the grand kids, and if the grandparents are complicit by keeping quiet, they have just made an enemy of the one person who could ensure time with the grand kids.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

For me, if I found out that you knew about 2 affairs and protected your daughter instead of your grand kids, I would make it my life's mission that you never got to see them again.

I would not be able to trust them around you.

My SO had a girlfriend that did what your daughter is doing.
Her mother told the husband.
The marriage blew up and they divorced.

The husband was grateful that somebody was honest with him and he kept a really good relationship with the girlfriend's mother. She sees the kids all the time because the husband trusts her so he has no issues with letting her see the kids.

Ninja edit.
I would tell if it were my kids having an affair.
I raised you better.
I know I gave you a moral compass to follow.
I know I gave you an understanding of right and wrong.
I know Instilled an understanding of consequences

You cheat. You get consequences.
Doesn't mean I don't love you. 
It does mean that I won't allow that love to force me to close my eyes and let you to hurt someone else because you decided to be selfish and throw away everything that I taught you for some cheep thrills


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

snerg said:


> For me, if I found out that you knew about 2 affairs and protected your daughter instead of your grand kids, I would make it my life's mission that you never got to see them again.
> 
> I would not be able to trust them around you.
> 
> ...


I won't allow anyone to abuse my love and support.
I won't let anyone take my love and support for granted.

Geez...I see it all the time people acting out, people abusing other people, then falling back on the "Family" get out of jail free card without even considering that the notion of "Family" goes both ways. If my family expects my love and support, they better damn well act like they value it, and not even hint at abusing it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I understand what all of you are saying. I have been dealing with this since I found out she could betray her vows, upbringing and everything else she craped on when she cheated the first time. I didn't say anything then for the same reason I am not saying anything now: my grand kid (s). 

I have always had a hard time with her. She is bipolar and as far as I know that condition doesn't come and go. She hasn't been on medication since before my first grand child was born. I have tried and have been unsuccessful getting her to resume therapy and get on meds for her disorder. He sadly sided with her and doesn't believe me. 

Her cheating is not the only problem here. Her lack of good parenting didn't start when she cheated, it's another ongoing problem. 

I have thought about this long and hard and i simply can't do it guys. Yes, she is my daughter, a 30 year old, self sufficient adult that can monetarily take care of herself and her two kids without anyones help. She is not a child. I can`t force her to change if I push her. Heck, I have tried that. What I got was a furious daughter and a SIL that would not welcone me in their home. I am not going there again. I want to see my grand kids. I want to be able to advice my daughter. I can't do that if I can't see them. 

I am working on her not throwing away her family right now. I am also working on her leaving the gym *****, while getting her to seek professionsl help as well. She very likely needs to get back on medication, and hopefully stay on it and therapy for the rest of her life. 

Those of you that have had this happen in your lives, how did you get through to your kid to do the right thing?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> I understand what all of you are saying. I have been dealing with this since I found out she could betray her vows, upbringing and everything else she craped on when she cheated the first time. I didn't say anything then for the same reason I am not saying anything now: my grand kid (s).
> 
> I have always had a hard time with her. She is bipolar and as far as I know that condition doesn't come and go. She hasn't been on medication since before my first grand child was born. I have tried and have been unsuccessful getting her to resume therapy and get on meds for her disorder. He sadly sided with her and doesn't believe me.
> 
> ...


My wife and I went through something similar with my step son. It was very difficult, but in the end, it came down to having to let him crash and burn because as he liked to put it...he was a grown ass man.

The fact that they have the label of "family" doesn't instill some sort of magic reasoning power. At best, it just gives you more chances to bang your head against the wall. Kids or not doesn't mean anything really. People are people, and adults are adults. Someone who wants to be reasoned with can be reasoned with. Someone who doesn't, can't. The "family" label is immaterial, meaningless.

I think the biggest hurdle here is the fact that you are viewing "family" one way, while your daughter is viewing it in a completely different way that is incompatible with the way you view it. No different than any other relationship incompatibility, and one that is virtually insurmountable.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

snerg said:


> I would tell if it were my kids having an affair.
> I raised you better.
> I know I gave you a moral compass to follow.
> I know I gave you an understanding of right and wrong.
> ...


Been there did that, even fought with her against having another kid because I knew this hell was far from over. 

I know he will find out at some point. I know he will feel betrayed by me because he is. My reasons for doing what I am doing will not matter to him. He deserved the truth and I wasn't honest with him. I understand. It doesn't change my decision to not tell him this devastating truth. Is it right , probably not, but it is the best course of action that I can do for now with the limited power I have to change things in my daughter's life.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Been there did that, even fought with her against having another kid because I knew this hell was far from over.
> 
> I know he will find out at some point. I know he will feel betrayed by me because he is. My reasons for doing what I am doing will not matter to him. He deserved the truth and I wasn't honest with him. I understand. It doesn't change my decision to not tell him this devastating truth. Is it right , probably not, but it is the best course of action that I can do for now with the limited power I have to change things in my daughter's life.


A very unenviable choice, and position that your daughter has forced upon you  She is essentially forcing you to choose between your loyalty to her at the risk of losing your grand kids forever. No good outcome...lose your daughter for the chance to be a part of your grandkids lives, or lose your grandkids and keep your daughter who has shown you her true colors in blinding fashion.

The thing is, there is only one completely innocent party in all of this, so I guess the real question you have to ask...who is it that needs and deserves your love and protection the most? Where do your loyalties lie? And can you live with yourself when you see the aftermath?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> He will not get primary custody. The state we live in always gives primary custody to the mother regardless of who is the better parent. I know, I worked in the school system my whole life and saw this over and over as a counselor. The mother would be the one to accept leaving the kids most of the time with dad, I know my daughter will never do that.
> 
> Your advice is not useful for me, not because it is not the way to go, but because I simply can't do it. Sorry, it is easier said than done when it's your flesh and blood's well being that is at stake here; *my grand kids' well being has more weight for me, than telling my SIL the truth.
> 
> If the chips fall where they should because he listens to his gut, then so be it.*


I think you have your answer right here. If you really don't feel comfortable telling him, don't tell him. Let the cards unfold, and stay out of the situation. It's not your situation to be in, in the first place; it's up to your daughter to "man up" and tell her husband what's going on. If she doesn't choose to do so, then that's her choice. Hopefully her husband chooses to start looking around, and he will figure out for himself what is going on.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

If the adults won't listen perhaps its time to begin researching what counseling the grandchildren will need... since you cannot control this their health and welfare may come to a point where this information is valuable.

Ask your daughter to research this with you... perhaps the cause and effect of her not seeking help will show her that she would never put her children though such need if she sought it (counseling/therapy/meds) herself.

I know first-hand with BPD children this is tough, advice is threatening control, but if you do this on a "peer" level she will be more likely to participate and then slowly awaken to the idea that her actions will cause her children to suffer, or relieve their suffering.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I am working on her not throwing away her family right now. I am also working on her leaving the gym *****, while getting her to seek professionsl help as well. She very likely needs to get back on medication, and hopefully stay on it and therapy for the rest of her life.


Just a side note: people who meet in a gym can and probably will continue an affair outside of the gym. So, if you get her to leave her gym, I'm not sure that's a fix-all for the situation.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Satya said:


> When he finds out (and I'm saying when, not if), and when he finds out you knew and didn't tell him, he will count you among another of the parents who would rather protect their direct blood than the family unit as a whole. He will likely never want to communicate with you again and could possibly take action to ensure you have minimal contact with your grandchildren, if he feels betrayed and hurt enough.
> 
> Meanwhile, you know your daughter is doing wrong. You know you didn't raise her this way. You know that those children are being neglected by her because of her affair fog. You know she's an individual and reaps what she sews. Yet you still protect her. That's your choice, but this is why we say infidelity touches so many more than the immediate couple. For all you know, her husband could see you as a willing participant, encouraging her to carry on in her affair because you did nothing different.
> 
> ...


Sorry for your pain and this crap situation.

Satya is right on the money. As usual.

Tell the Son in Law. On the sly. Tell him that she is a serial cheat. Tell him about both affairs. Tell him that you love him very much and that are so sad that this has happened.

Tell him that you will always be there for him, even if he divorces her. Tell him you just found out about "both" affairs. And that you are very torn inside. Tell him that he must claim that he heard it from someone else.

Tell him to act angry if your daughter asks him if her mother was the one that outed her. 
He should respond with: What the hell, your Mother knew this and did not tell me!" 

Yikes. so painful. Do the right thing now. It will pay off [for you] in the future.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

This is really tough. I'm sorry you are caught up in this. The way I see it, you have two choices...

#1. Don't get involved any longer. Sometimes you can give loved ones all the heartfelt advice in the world, but they won't change. You can't save them from themselves. Just be there for your grandkids when the marriage eventually falls apart.

#2. Give your daughter a dose of cold water that she will never forget. Take her aside and give her an ultimatum. Make it clear that her selfishness is impacting her family and the extended family and either she get her act together and work on her marriage or you will give your son-in-law your full support in the eventual divorce proceedings. Advise her that you will testify that the marriage falling apart is completely her fault and deserve as little as possible of the family assets. In addition, you will testify against her as being an unfit mother and advise the court to award full custody to their father. She will be banished from your home and excluded from family functions, permanently. You will then maintain an amicable relationship with your son-in-law to see your grandchildren.

I realize #2 sounds harsh - and it will take an effort to stick to your guns. But if you are serious about getting her to stop, she needs to understand the level of idiocy/selfishness going on here and that NOONE should put up with her for it. To do anything half assed, or in the middle of these two will just continue to send her a weak message and she won't respond...


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Ursula said:


> I think you have your answer right here. If you really don't feel comfortable telling him, don't tell him. Let the cards unfold, and stay out of the situation. It's not your situation to be in, in the first place; it's up to your daughter to "man up" and tell her husband what's going on. If she doesn't choose to do so, then that's her choice. Hopefully her husband chooses to start looking around, and he will figure out for himself what is going on.


I do have the answer right there. The after math is what is coming next. Nothing about this is a quick fix. I talked to daughter today. She is going to look for a therapist and get help. She wants to contact her old shrink, the one she had for over three years and gave her the bipolar disgnosis and placed her on meds. She practices in a city that is a bit over 2 hours away though, but daughter is confident that her therapist will agree to see her online or over the phone instead of driving twice a week over there. This is a step in the right direction for her emotional stability. 

This was the only phychiatrist that helped her stay on track in both college at the time and handling her emotions and relationships like a functioning adult. I am hoping my kid follows through. She is not leaving her husband. She is not seeing the gym *****. This may be true or it may not, but she is not glued to her phone all the time this week that I have noticed the very few times I even see her. That phone was glued to her like another freaking arm.

For those of you that see her issues so black and white, that is not true at all. I will not lose my daughter or my grand kids. What may very well happen is that she will end up divorced and bringing to her and her babies home a string of losers like the types she used to pick when she was younger and before meds and therapy. 

That is what I am hoping to avoid. The divorce I may not, but her seeking the help she needs to take care of herself and her kids is what I can still have some influence over. My SIL is not perfect. He is very passive/agressive and this drives my kid bonkers. I advice her to put herself in his shoes. He knows something is very wrong and her deceit is not completely fooling him. He is not stupid. It's just very hard to control someone you really have no control over. 

He can't control or fix this because he didn't break it or caused it. It's a mess as most of us that were betrayed in such a terrible way know this. We can only control ourselves, and when your gut and your head are screaming to pay attention; self control may not be possible all the time either.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SunCMars said:


> Sorry for your pain and this crap situation.
> 
> Satya is right on the money. As usual.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but no can do. I will lose my SIL if they divorce, just like I lost all of my X's family when I divorced. Blood is always thicker than water you all. One of my sisters in law knew about my X's affair. She didn't like what he was doing, but she didn't tell me about ot either. I don't hate her or blame her for not telling me. That was not her issue, it was my X's.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I do have the answer right there. The after math is what is coming next. Nothing about this is a quick fix. I talked to daughter today. She is going to look for a therapist and get help. She wants to contact her old shrink, the one she had for over three years and gave her the bipolar disgnosis and placed her on meds. She practices in a city that is a bit over 2 hours away though, but daughter is confident that her therapist will agree to see her online or over the phone instead of driving twice a week over there. This is a step in the right direction for her emotional stability.
> 
> This was the only phychiatrist that helped her stay on track in both college at the time and handling her emotions and relationships like a functioning adult. I am hoping my kid follows through. She is not leaving her husband. She is not seeing the gym *****. This may be true or it may not, but she is not glued to her phone all the time this week that I have noticed the very few times I even see her. That phone was glued to her like another freaking arm.
> 
> ...


You are a good and loyal Mommy and Grandma. A wise Mother Goose.

And you look after your flock. 

I may disagree with you.....on this.

But your Dear Heart is closer to the Eye.

The Eye of the Hurricane. You are in a calm period. The back-half of the storm is coming.

Batten Down your Hatches....the ones over your families heads....

Oh! You ARE doing that......better then me.

Just Sayin'


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Your daughter is a grown woman. Your window to instill certain values closed a long time ago. Now you have to hope that somewhere inside, she shares your feelings on right and wrong and will have some sort of awakening. 

Don't count on it, though. She is a two time cheater. Her behavior speaks volumes about her values. Sounds like the only reservation she has about losing her family is what SHE will lose. It's hard to look at our kids and see their character flaws. I'm sorry for the pain this must cause you. 

If she asks your advice, give it. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Let me preface my comments by saying I have no sympathy for your position other than it sucks to see your kids do something so stupid. Read no further if you don't wish to be offended.

I get that you feel like you are between a rock and a hard place. But all I hear is you trying to justify your actions (or inaction). In other circles this would be known as "aiding and abetting". All you are teaching your daughter is that what she is doing is okay. What a load of <bovine scat>. 

I feel so sorry for you SIL, he knows something is wrong, but no one will tell him what is going on.

As for the EOW screw job, I hope that your SIL has a backbone. Courts have come to realize that 50/50 custody is better for children, regardless of your experience. Most of the time men accept the EOW screw job because they feel guilty for causing the divorce, but in this case he is not at fault. May he get all the custody he deserves (or more). Hopefully he is in a position that you daughter will be paying child support to him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Even if she gets help he still deserves to know. Give her a week to tell him and if she hasn't then you tell him. I hope he gets 50/50 custody.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There is something else you need to consider.When your grandkids find out that you knew about the two affairs (at least) then you may not be too popular with them either.As for custody in your state always going to the mother,if It was me I would hire a private investigator to follow her for a while and when the judge is shown proof of her promiscuous lifestyle then custody may not be as assured as you think.
You are not thinking this through,all you see is things in the short term and this will be your downfall.Your sil could possibly get full custody and where will your loyalty have got you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> Your daughter is a grown woman. Your window to instill certain values closed a long time ago. Now you have to hope that somewhere inside, she shares your feelings on right and wrong and will have some sort of awakening.
> 
> Don't count on it, though. She is a two time cheater. Her behavior speaks volumes about her values. Sounds like the only reservation she has about losing her family is what SHE will lose. It's hard to look at our kids and see their character flaws. I'm sorry for the pain this must cause you.
> 
> If she asks your advice, give it. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time.


Indeed. It is all about her. It always has been. She is her father's kid, down to her bipolar disorder and workaholic ways. This is exactly what I do. I wait for her to ask for advice. I don't preach or push. I have been there and done that and it doesn't work with her. Never worked with her dad either. 

Patience and talking calmly like a true counselor works most of the time. My professional skills worked well with her dad for most of our life together (21 years to be exact). It's a slow process with daughter as well but it is the only one that works more often than not. They are emotionally inept adults, if you push too strongly or emotionslly, they can't handle it and havoc insues. 

Just the other day she made fun of me when we were talking. She calls me shrink in Spanish when I talk to her this way. She says it in a loving, joking way. She knows why I use it with her and she knows it works too. It's all part of having had two bipolar family members in my immediate family.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> There is something else you need to consider.When your grandkids find out that you knew about the two affairs (at least) then you may not be too popular with them either.As for custody in your state always going to the mother,if It was me I would hire a private investigator to follow her for a while and when the judge is shown proof of her promiscuous lifestyle then custody may not be as assured as you think.
> You are not thinking this through,all you see is things in the short term and this will be your downfall.Your sil could possibly get full custody and where will your loyalty have got you.


My grand babies are too young at this point in their lives. The oldest is 5 and the youngest is just one. Hopefully, mom will get her **** straight before the kids are too innocent to not notice how screwed up their mommy is. All this mess she creates is not new. I have been struggling with her since kindergarten to be brutally honest. She displayed odd behaviors since then. Most teachers ignored her agressive and bad temper ways because she was very task oriented and an excellent student. She has always been one of those kids with perfect hundreds on her report cards all year long. Year after year really, but emotionally, it was a very different story. Another commonality her and her dad share. He was a straight A student all his life too. I was not dumb, but I got A and B's most of my school years. I got my dosis of C's in college though. Not my daughtvo or her dad though. Great academic wise, but when it comes to emotions, they are truly retarded.:frown2:


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

With all due respect, it doesn't work. She cheated before and is doing it again. You can't fix this. It's not a skinned knee or flat bicycle tire. She is an adult. Let her be responsible for the consequences of her actions. 

It may be telling that she feels comfortable enough to share her infidelity with you. That sounds more like the dynamic between friends than that of mother and daughter. That puts you in much less of a position to be the moral authority.

Maybe I missed it, but what is your end game here? Do you want her to confess to her husband? Do you want her to end the affair and try to keep it secret? Something else? What exactly do you wish to engineer here?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Well, I guess I'll be the jerk. Are you trying to find out ways to keep the grand kids around? As you type more and more comes out. She's Bi-polar, disappears for long stretches, isn't caring for her kids properly, doesn't take her medication, they fight and is having an affair. Let's be real, yes, there is bias in the court system, but there are all kinds of bias. People with Mental disabilities are hammered very hard in custody battles. 

Don't take my word for it, go to google and find out for yourself. The studies and surveys I have seen state from 2/3 up to 80% are NOT with the parent who has the mental disorder.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am not engineering anything. I am being mom to a 30 year old that has had issues her whole life. I will not throw ultimatums at her or anyone else. That would be just plain stupid because ultimatums don't work with adult children if you want to stay present in their lives. That is poor parenting on anyones part. Since when has bullying adults work? We can't force anything on any adult except on ourselves. 

In a perfect world, I would not have a bipolar, unmedicated adult child that was stable enough to get herself an award winning husband and father of her kids and not live happily ever after. One that loves her way beyond what she gives him. Any other man would have dumped her a long time ago and rightfully so. It has been no bed of roses for him. She is not an easy person to live with when she is loving. It is no different when she is not loving. She is a ****ty partner and that hasn't changed. 

I honestly thought her cheating would be the last straw he would tolerate, but she managed to keep it hidden to him for about a year and a half. I never trusted her after she cheated the first time. I knew it wouldn't stop until she outgrew this because it was damaging to her personally not her husbsnd or her kids mind you. She has no remorse, she isn't capable of it for the long run. I took a lot of crap from her dad, cheating was the deal breaker for me. I listened to my gut and stopped believing his lies. Maybe my SIL will do the same when he is good and ready. He will never get the whole truth from her, most of us never did either.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> In a perfect world, I would not have a bipolar, unmedicated adult child that was stable enough to get herself an award winning husband and father of her kids and not live happily ever after.


"Bipolar adultery" is a thing. As long as she refuses to get her illness managed, she'll likely repeat this pattern of behavior. This condition being untreated is also not good for your grandchildren.

If there were reason to believe it was a one-time episode of poor judgment, I might feel differently, but in this case, I would agree with those who say that the husband deserves to know what he's in the middle of, and to be advised quietly and to know that he has your full support in doing what's best for himself and your grandchildren. That is harsh, but real.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Well, I guess I'll be the jerk. Are you trying to find out ways to keep the grand kids around? As you type more and more comes out. She's Bi-polar, disappears for long stretches, isn't caring for her kids properly, doesn't take her medication, they fight and is having an affair. Let's be real, yes, there is bias in the court system, but there are all kinds of bias. People with Mental disabilities are hammered very hard in custody battles.
> 
> Don't take my word for it, go to google and find out for yourself. The studies and surveys I have seen state from 2/3 up to 80% are NOT with the parent who has the mental disorder.


My troubles with my daughter is nothing new. I have talked of her affair and my silence of it here before. I knew the day would come when she would cheat again. That is why I posted it here. That day is now here. I have no idea what you mean by more and more comes out . The only thing that is new is that I confronted her that I suspected she was cheating again and she accepted it was true. This was about 3 weeks ago. 

As to her losing custody of the kids due to her illness, this will not happen. There is no proof that will stand in court to take her kids away and give custody to dad. Her husband believes her crap that she is no longer bipolar and doesn't need professional help. He actually thinks her behavior is normal. I thought that too about her dad. I didn't see it all until daughter became unglued at 18 when she went off to college and couldn't handle medical school, life on her own, and the ****ty string of boyfriends she got involved with. That is when the storm hit in my house and I couldn't deny just how difficult someone like her could truly be. 

She just told me last week that i didn't warn her about what could happen before she married. I sure as heck did tell her. I even told her husband that they needed to date longer before committing to one another. They didn't listen. I told her to wait to have children as well but what does mom know right?

Adult children won't listen to advise that poops on their parade so to speak. She told me this because I was telling my son that if he wasn't sure about staying with his current gf when he left to Afganistan that I wouldn't push her wants on him. He has already told the gf that he is not commitment material and he doesn't want children. She doesn't believe him. She is willing to wait for him. That is just plain crazy on her part. But i am glad at least one of my kids is mature enough to be honest and stick to his freedom to chose what he will and will not do with his life.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> As to her losing custody of the kids due to her illness, this will not happen. There is no proof that will stand in court to take her kids away and give custody to dad. Her husband believes her crap that she is no longer bipolar and doesn't need professional help.


Okay, hopefully you won't find out. You telling me no, when there are cases all over your state which say yes, doesn't make me think anything different. The courts do not like mental illness. Unless you are medicating her under the table, he will be able to get medical records released to help his case.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

The way you speak about your daughter is setting off all sorts of hinky meters. It is disparaging and unloving. For someone who is professing "blood is thicker than water" I would expect better. But then again you refuse to do the RIGHT thing and instead make excuses for why you cant.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> I am not engineering anything. I am being mom to a 30 year old that has had issues her whole life. I will not throw ultimatums at her or anyone else. That would be just plain stupid because ultimatums don't work with adult children if you want to stay present in their lives. That is poor parenting on anyones part. Since when has bullying adults work? We can't force anything on any adult except on ourselves.
> 
> In a perfect world, I would not have a bipolar, unmedicated adult child that was stable enough to get herself an award winning husband and father of her kids and not live happily ever after. One that loves her way beyond what she gives him. Any other man would have dumped her a long time ago and rightfully so. It has been no bed of roses for him. She is not an easy person to live with when she is loving. It is no different when she is not loving. She is a ****ty partner and that hasn't changed.
> 
> I honestly thought her cheating would be the last straw he would tolerate, but she managed to keep it hidden to him for about a year and a half. I never trusted her after she cheated the first time. I knew it wouldn't stop until she outgrew this because it was damaging to her personally not her husbsnd or her kids mind you. She has no remorse, she isn't capable of it for the long run. I took a lot of crap from her dad, cheating was the deal breaker for me. I listened to my gut and stopped believing his lies. Maybe my SIL will do the same when he is good and ready. He will never get the whole truth from her, most of us never did either.


You said everything that needed to be said about the situation right here. You admit you can't do anything. I never said a thing about an ultimatum. I suggested you let your daughter take responsibility for her actions like an adult. He husband made his choices and now must live with the consequences of them as well. The kids (like all kids) simply get what they get. Sad to be sure, but such is life. We are all born with certain cards to play and some hands are much worse than others. 

Read you own words and accept the truth. You are powerless. Perhaps one day her husband will wake up and take the actions he should. Perhaps not. Either way it's not in your hands.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

You know that old threat "if you don't stop I'm pulling this car over right now!" I did that to my daughter when she was around 22 and I discovered she was cheating on her boyfriend. We were in the car and I told her she should be ashamed of herself and she needed to call her boyfriend and break it off right now, she was living with the guy so I told her we will go get your stuff. She didn't want to do it so I pulled over and said I wasn't moving until she broke it off, so she did it.

You can't do that with a 30 year old who's married and has kids, all you can do is voice your displeasure, make sure you do nothing to help enable her bad behavior and tell her you refuse to hear about her affair. I'm torn about calling her husband, even though she deserves to be outed I probably wouldn't do it to my own kid.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Magnesium said:


> The way you speak about your daughter is setting off all sorts of hinky meters. It is disparaging and unloving. For someone who is professing "blood is thicker than water" I would expect better. But then again you refuse to do the RIGHT thing and instead make excuses for why you cant.


Just like you are entitled to your opinion and perceptions, so am I. Excuse or not, i will not tell him, and I do love my daughter even if she is a difficult person to love and understand.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Cooper said:


> You know that old threat "if you don't stop I'm pulling this car over right now!" I did that to my daughter when she was around 22 and I discovered she was cheating on her boyfriend. We were in the car and I told her she should be ashamed of herself and she needed to call her boyfriend and break it off right now, she was living with the guy so I told her we will go get your stuff. She didn't want to do it so I pulled over and said I wasn't moving until she broke it off, so she did it.
> 
> You can't do that with a 30 year old who's married and has kids, all you can do is voice your displeasure, make sure you do nothing to help enable her bad behavior and tell her you refuse to hear about her affair. I'm torn about calling her husband, even though she deserves to be outed I probably wouldn't do it to my own kid.


I don't want to know about the affair, I hope she is not lying and did end it, but I don't trust that it is truly over. Just a couple of days ago she accepted that she had feelings for this guy and of course none for her husband, but she knew her feelings are probably temporary and will change in time. 

I can't tell my SIL and I know how sickening it feels to be the last one to know when your spouse is cheating on you. I lived it, but in the end, it was my cheating spouse the only one that truly owed me the truth, yet he was too selfish and a coward to do it. He like most cheaters, only tell you when they are caught and you never get the whole truth. My niece knew he was cheating because the idiot asked her if it was hard for her to talk to her father's new wife whom he had left their mom for. 

My niece knew he was cheating because of those type of questions he was asking. She told me after the **** hit the fan. I didn't hate her for it. I didn't disown her. My X was an idiot for asking my own niece these type of questions and putting her in such a terrible spot.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> I lived it, but in the end, it was my cheating spouse the only one that truly owed me the truth


Point: it's equally true that you do not owe your daughter your silence, unless you promised it to her.



> My X was an idiot for asking my own niece these type of questions and putting her in such a terrible spot.


Point: what does that make your daughter for telling you?

You'll do what you want. I understand the inclination not to make waves. However, I see all of these reasons why you can't/won't tell your son-in-law, even though you say you believe the truth should be known. You place the burden on him to snoop more, have a louder gut, etc.

Don't take offense, but I sense something here where you get some validation out of perpetuating this soap opera. There's an overwhelming tone in your writing where you clearly wish to be seen as the long-suffering innocent victim of burdens your daughter has imposed on you against your will - even painting her as a continuation of your ex-husband. Isn't it possible that you are not the victim, but rather the enabler? Make no mistake that choosing to cooperate with her cover-ups is a form of enabling.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Bibi, your post title asks what we would do as parents if we found out our children were cheating. So I'll try to offer my more constructive advice in direct response to that, if what I've offered so far has seemed insulting. 

While I don't have children of my own yet, I know that if I had an adult child, I would tell their spouse of her cheating.

If that irreparably damages my child's relationship with me, so be it. I don't want a relationship with any child of mine who fell so far from the mark she can't humble herself to do the right thing by her husband and tell the truth. Her age wouldn't stop me from being her parent. That title is mine for life.

Maybe some feel it would not be my place or my business to interfere, but that man is part of my family and deserves to know the truth.

That's just what I would do. And it would hurt me like hell, I'm sure, but I'd be able to sleep fine at night.

Eta: you must of course do what you think is best. You polled us to ask what we'd do were we faced with your situation, so I answered honestly.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> My niece knew he was cheating because the idiot asked her if it was hard for her to talk to her father's new wife whom he had left their mom for.
> *
> My niece knew he was cheating because of those type of questions he was asking*. She told me after the **** hit the fan. I didn't hate her for it. I didn't disown her. *My X was an idiot for asking my own niece these type of questions and putting her in such a terrible spot.*


Interesting. You KNOW for a fact there is cheating and you compare it to someone who suspected something was going on. What you described above is not the same in my world. I get when people hedge on the side of caution when they do not have all of the facts. As you said, your niece was being asked questions, which triggered memories for her to make a later confirmed logical leap. It is not the same as your daughter coming out and saying "Yeah, I am cheating."

Nope, not the same at all.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Hello TAM,
> 
> I have been away for a bit because I am having trouble with my kids. Son will get deployed to Afghanistan in less than a month and I am worried sick for his well being when he is over there. I have been spending more time with him since he will be leaving from 9 months to a year.
> 
> ...


When did you learn about her affairs?

Have you in any way assisted her to cover her affair, even by a simple misdirection to him by saying: "My daughter thinks the world of you! She'd never cheat on you," or something similar?

And why would your daughter automatically get custody? She only gets custody if she asks for it. If she didn't ask for it, she wouldn't get it, would she?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Nope, not the same at all.


Of course you are correct and my niece not telling me about her suspicions are not the same thing as me knowing my daughter has indeed cheated more than once. 

My example in regards to my niece and my now x sister in law was in direct relevance to the fact that by the time the betrayed spouse finds out their WS has cheated, others close to them know and didn't tell the betrayed for whatever reason. If I would of been angry at everyone who knew and didn't tell me, I would be angry with more than half of the family then. No one but the WS owes the BS the truth and most of us on TAM know that WS won't ever tell unless they are caught and no other choice is left.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Not even 10 posts yet. No real sound advice just inflamatory comments, the second of this type for my thread. Very telling indeed.
> 
> I don't take offense at all, but boy do I notice.
> 
> Heading back to school yet? :wink2:


Your thread asked us what would we do if it was our own child. In my first post, I put myself in your shoes and answered you honestly. I realize that it clearly wasn't the answer you wanted, but that doesn't make it inflammatory.

I do understand why the second post might seem inflammatory and said so in advance, but I believe you embraced some questionable logic to rationalize your decision and I hoped that it would be constructive to ask you to step back and look at what role you're actually taking on here.

Your daughter chose to share this information with you because she believes you will lie to protect her. She can't do this to your son-in-law without your cooperation. As a man, I have to put myself in your son-in-law's shoes, too. Other posters have already spoken to what will likely happen to the family if your son-in-law concludes that you knowingly aided your daughter in concealing all of this and have taken your daughter's side against him, laughing and joking at his Christmas dinner table while knowing that he's working like a dog to maintain a sham household.

I'm very familiar with the chaos untreated bipolar disorder can create. I'm also very familiar with how normal the enabling can feel to those who are swimming inside the family fishbowl with a bipolar loved one. You have my sympathy and I wish you the best of luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I said nothing about relevance, I said it was a different scenario and not the same. 




> My example in regards to my niece and my now x sister in law was in direct relevance to the fact that by the time the betrayed spouse finds out their WS has cheated, others close to them know and didn't tell the betrayed for whatever reason. If I would of been angry at everyone who knew and didn't tell me, I would be angry with more than half of the family then. No one but the WS owes the BS the truth and most of us on TAM know that WS won't ever tell unless they are caught and no other choice is left.


You are currently rationalizing things away to explain why you aren't going to tell the SIL. I never told you to do anything, I just addressed your comments about custody and the erroneous comparison. You are going to do what you want and I believe it is your fear of losing contact with your Grand Kids.

I'll back out because you are looking for agreement right now and not advice.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> When did you learn about her affairs?
> 
> Have you in any way assisted her to cover her affair, even by a simple misdirection to him by saying: "My daughter thinks the world of you! She'd never cheat on you," or something similar?
> 
> And why would your daughter automatically get custody? She only gets custody if she asks for it. If she didn't ask for it, she wouldn't get it, would she?



The first time her husband caught her laughing on the phone because her howorker could care less what damage he caused. He called me very upset that he truly believed she was cheating with this guy. I went scorched Earth on her. I even asked her dad for help and I can't stand the guy, but I needed help with our daughter. She lied and denied of course. The affair went underground and continued for several months. I, like the X, and her husband thought we had instilled the fear of God in her...yeah right! 

It took me a long time to let go of my anger towards her. How could she sleep night after night in their bed and live with herself like she did for so long? I tried to bring my kids up right. I will never truly trust her again and I knew she was up to no good agsin when she was so darn distant from all of them, even more than before.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bibi1031 said:


> No one but the WS owes the BS the truth


I disagree. You're a business owner and one of your employees is stealing from you. Another employee knows about it. Doesn't the second employee have a moral obligation to tell you? If the two employees are related does it make it ok for the one of them to not tell you?

A person has a moral obligation to not allow an innocent person be abused. What your daughter is doing is abuse of her husband and her children. I strongly believe you have a moral obligation to tell him.

Alternatively, I think your other moral action would be to completely remove yourself from your daughter's life. Tell her that you will not be involved in enabling her abuse of her husband and her children. While this would not assist the abused people end the abuse, it would remove you from knowing any further information or being complicit in her actions. I would say this is a lesser level of morality than telling him, but it can be defended to some extent.

One other possibility which would be commonly acceptable is for her to divorce him without telling him. So, it would be arguably morally ok for you to advise her to divorce him, and for you not to tell him of the affairs. While I personally dislike this option because I would want to know if I were in his position, I concede the logic that if they divorce it really doesn't matter he doesn't know because her betrayals end when the marriage ends.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

An approach you've not addressed is to tell your SIL the totality of the situation, with the bipolar disorder as a central player. Absent bipolar she probably would not be doing these things. There is no excuse for her bad behavior, but the bipolar is probably an explanation. With proper treatment she may be a decent wife and mother. She may be loyal to him and she may be attentive as a mother.

So, what about sitting SIL down and explaining that your daugher is going off the rails with bipolar, and it is not like a cold which gets cured. She will never not have bipolar. Tell him she does bad things when untreated, which harm him and the kids. Tell him that he is in some ways too close to the situation to see it in perspective, just like it was for you when you were younger and married to her father. Tell him you love him, respect him, and think of him as your own son (well that last part is a lie isn't it), and you want to help him keep his family intact.

Then, when he says he has it under control, you tell him no he doesn't. Give two or three brief examples (her absense as a mother, her bad treatment of him), and that there is much he apparently doesn't know about. Like her two affairs.

There is no guarantee at all that he will seek divorce if he finds out about her affairs. Many people forgive affairs when a contributing factor is a mental illness, especially when the cheater seeks good treatment.

Informing your SIL can be the catalyst to saving their family.

Imho, if he finds out on his own of her affairs, the chances of divorce are 99.9%.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

@phillybeffandswiss, I quoted you but my response was a collection of other posts not just yours, but that's fine. Things written on an online forum are often misconstrued.

This one is a continuation of what MattMatt asked in an earlier post. I decided the first time she fessed up to keep quiet because he was happy and clueless about her affair. The only reason she wanted to confess was because she needed help getting out of the affair. It had nothing to do with, love, remorse or for the best interest of her child. It was all about her. 

So I told her that was very selfish of her and if she truly wanted out of the affair and save her marriage, she needed to leave that job, change her phone , get off social media and flat out dissapear from this jerk's life. Get into IC, go back to church and she actually did all that. She turned everything around. 

When she started feeling disatisfied with her life, she thought having another baby would solve her unhappiness. I advised her not to. Their first child was barely 3 at the time. She didn't listen and he was over joyed to have another baby too. So a year after the baby is born, she wants to finish medical school. She is unhappy, works full time, is in grad school full time, and has a baby she was still breast feeding not all that long ago. I knew something was up and she was going to come unglued again real soon. I was right and flat out asked 3 weeks ago. She wanted out. She was sick and tired of her husband wanting to control her every move. Typical cheater speech and not a thing was learned from the hell she created when my first grand baby was only 15 months old.

I told her that all this was very unfair for her children and her husband. The kids adore dad because she has always been too busy to truly build a relationship with her kids. They don't even like her. They cry for daddy over her any day. I flat out told her that she couldn't handle the kids without him and that he probably should have them most of the time. That is how I know she will never let him have them even if he is the parent that will always have the childrens best interest at heart. 

Apparently reality did set in because she is telling me all the right things now. She knows how much he truly does and that her babies adore him and are detached from her. That is where this mess is at right now. Last night they had friends over and he was not happy at all. He even slept in the guest room. I don't know what happened between last night and this evening, but I brought home dinner for all of us and he is back to his loving happy self with her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> @phillybeffandswiss, I quoted you but my response was a collection of other posts not just yours, but that's fine. Things written on an online forum are often misconstrued.
> 
> This one is a continuation of what MattMatt asked in an earlier post. I decided the first time she fessed up to keep quiet because he was happy and clueless about her affair.
> 
> ...


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

My brother has gone thru this twice. Both times he immediately called the spouse and told them what was going on. The kids were obviously mad but they also were warned long ago that this is exactly what he would do if he ever found out about cheating.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Bibi1031 said:
> 
> 
> > @phillybeffandswiss, I quoted you but my response was a collection of other posts not just yours, but that's fine. Things written on an online forum are often misconstrued.
> ...


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I would stay out of their marriage. Many people do not realize how a simple action on their part can alter the life of another, and not necessarily in a good way. Give you an example. There was a woman who had a one night stand with a co-worker after too much to drink. Her friend told her about what happened and they fought and divorced forcing them to sell their home and split their assets. The alimony was too much for the husband and not enough for the ex wife so they lived paycheck to paycheck just surviving. What if that woman never butted in and the wife was so guilty about what she did that she resolved never to do it again and so her marriage flourished and was happy for many years. 

My ex fiancé cheated on me and my best friend struggled whether to tell me or not. In the end he did and I broke up with my ex a few months before the marriage. My ex went on to get hooked on drugs and having sex with men for a place to sleep and a got meal. She joined a commune and got pregnant from one of the guys she was passed around too. She cleaned up her act but not before the LSD caused her mental problems to this day. She had a kid by one of those men but, could not remember much about it. She got desperate and married a man for his green card. She stayed married to him until her son's college education was paid for and then divorced him for a woman she was cheating with for most of her marriage and is now married to that women for 23 years. She also was anti capitalism and we would have clashed there and yet owns and runs a business today. I dodge a big bullet because my friend butted in. So you never know what your interference will result in. You could be preventing a disastrous marriage or keeping it together and very happy. I stay out of other people's business because you never know what is going on. I knew husband and wives who look the other way because it does not bother them but once exposed to family and friends feel honor bound to divorce their spouse or be pitied by all they know. Best to not get involved in other's lives. 

I look back on my life. Great life and marriage of 45 years. A very prosperous and exciting one too. We never had to worry about paying our bills or indulging ourselves. What I saw was that not only the good things in my life but also the bad, lead me to where I am today. Had not my ex fiancee cheated or my employer not gone out of business, the course of my life would not be as good as it is now. Let fate take its course and never assume that a spouse is unaware of their spouses cheating. Many spouses feel that what the eyes do not see, the heart cannot feel and as long as their spouses are discrete and put them and their marriage above all else. You only know part of the story so best to stay out of it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Bibi

I don't envy your position here, and I understand your decision is one that is causing so much turmoil in your own life. What to do? You have given your daughter a lifeline after the first affair. You have stated that you knew she was going to come unglued, that she would cheat again, and have kept this in secret from your son in law. Your daughter was diagnosed with being bi-polar, your daughter was in the medical field, yet still quit taking the medications that keep her straight. You say she gets straight A's in school, so if she is in the medical field, she should know the importance of continuing her medications. She should also know that being bi-polar has no cure, the medications keep her straight.

Even though she knows all of this, she continues to make harmful decisions directly related to her kids. What frightens me even more, is that you say she will do anything to keep her husband from getting the kids. Even yourself have admitted your son in law is the better parent. You say the courts in your state give the mother more then the fathers in custody. Given all of this I would think your love and protection would be where you say it is, your grandchildren. I understand you may have your reasons, your fears, but my opinion is you are protecting your daughter only. 

Being someone who deals with patients of mental health disorders on a daily basis, your daughter is actually being very reckless. You as a counselor should also know this and understand the importance of medications. Can you control your daughter, no, but you can issue consequences for not being responsible. One would be that you would testify on behalf of your son in law for custody. Two, would be that you report her to a licensing board, if applicable, as she needs these medications from becoming unglued. Three, would be that you have remained silent and enabling after the first affair, but will now refuse to enable her bad choices. That's just for starters. 

I'm in no way trying to be harsh or condescending towards your daughter. But she has a responsibility to be a parent to her children, and I don't see her fulfilling that role. True your son in law is not perfect, but even you know he is a far better parent. This to me would be that you protect your grandchildren, and let your daughter hit rock bottom. I would be very certain that if your son in law filed for divorce, went for full custody, went for child support, and showed how irresponsible his wife is, that she would be nervous. This would most likely cause your daughter to hit rock bottom very quickly as the stress and absence of medication would drive her over the edge. Again I'm not saying this to be harsh, but it is a harsh reality your daughter just may one day face. What happens then? Support your daughter, enable her bad decisions by remaining silent? 

I honestly don't know what your decision would be and in ways that actually pains me. This takes nothing away from what you must be feeling, and as I said I don't envy your position. Perhaps your position should change that your daughter not contact you until she has fulfilled some obligations. Those obligations would be that she get back into therapy, take her medications, and end any affairs, after she has done this and verified this with you does contact resume. You can make this time as long as you feel necessary, anywhere from one month to six months, whatever you feel is reasonable. God bless you with whatever path you decide to embark.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I appreciate those of you thst posted, but the advice is all over the place. Most say that the moral thing to do is to let SIL know, yet others say to not but in. 

I didn't but in when this whole mess stsrted. SIL asked for help. He did the right thing. He exposed the affair. We ihtervened, but we underestimated just how uncaring and deceitful a pair of cheaters can be. Add to this that love is blind and I didn't bring my kids up to be such terrible partners, but sadly genes as well as our own life mistskes add to the dynamic of how children learn from the environment they come from. 

Daughter behaves very similar to how her dad was with me. All his love and attention went to our kids and I got crumbs. I was too nnaive to think that I deserved better and needed to speak up that my needs were not being met. SIL receives crumbs from daughter too. The sad difference to this dynamic is that daughter is distsnt from her kids too. Her whole family only gets crumbs becsuse she makes herself too busy and just comes home to sleep pretty much. 

The only reasons why my X didn't cheat on me until midlife was because in his job he was surrounded by mostly men and he loved his children dearly and was a homebody. Daughter's workplace is a ***** infested place where cheating is a common thing. She is a knockout and doesn't look geeky at all ( unlike her dad) even though she is. She is very social too and is fiercly independent like her mom. Being bipolar doesn't excuse the cheating, but if she were under professional care, she would probably make much better choices and I wouldn"t worry so much about my grandkids safety. She would probably appreciate the gem she has at home and how loved and well taken care her babies are. I always admired my X for the love and attention he gave our children. He would cone tired from work, but the kids always got daddy's attention and devotion when he came through the door. We made a great parent team. 

SIL doesn't have any help at home. He is mom and dad to his kids.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Bibi
Now it is a question of when rather than if the sh1t will hit the fan. When this comes down, there is another unpalatable thing that you will have to do. You will have to do it to keep your grandchildren safe. You will have to let SIL and the courts know that she is bipolar. It will likely comprise part of their eventual divorce and child custody. The courts will never willingly place children with a mentally ill parent. She may not talk to you for awhile, she will be angrier than all get out, BUT, the objective here is to ensure that the minors in this situation are cared for. Have we not seen the horror stories? 

She is your daughter. You know in your heart of hearts that your SIL is both the better and safer parent. You know that you must err on the side of caution when it comes to your grandchildren. You cannot allow them to be placed with your daughter until she gets treatment, and even then, I have represented several bipolar individuals, and they tend to hate their meds. One says that he is not himself when medicated and another says that she hates the feeling of swimming through oatmeal. Both of these people are bipolar, and routinely go off their meds. Both are divorced/divorcing, and neither has primary custody of their children. 

You have the unenviable task of having to toss your daughter under the bus in order to ensure that your grandchildren are safe.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> I wouldn't worry so much about my grandkids safety.


I think there's a clear consensus in this thread that telling him is the right thing to do. You also seem to agree that it is right for him to know. Respectfully, I am utterly unable to comprehend how it is possible to fear for the safety of your own grandchildren and fail to intervene.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

[QcUOTE=a_mister;18330417]I think there's a clear consensus in this thread that telling him is the right thing to do. You also seem to agree that it is right for him to know. Respectfully, I am utterly unable to comprehend how it is possible to fear for the safety of your own grandchildren and fail to intervene.[/QUOTE]


I did intervene when my second grand child was born. She made a bone chilling comment the scared the crap out of me. She said if I had ever thought of killing her or her brother when they were small. I guess my look said it all and she said she was just joking and that she was sleep depraved. She was breast feeding the baby several times during the night and working full time 12 hour shifts. I talked to SIL that that was a huge red flag. That dd needed to get back to therapy, see her gyno for anti depressants, and most certainly for bi polar meds to help with her illness. He got very upset with me and told me dd was very overwhelmed with the baby's birth and work. She was not bipolar. 

He sided with her. Denial is a terrible coping mechanism. They were both very upset with me. Daughter was furious and told me to leave. She said her diagnosis was temporary because I always sheltered her and her brother too much and her dad leaving us and her being on her own in college caused the temporary illness her therapist termed bipolar II disorder. That was BS, and I told them so. She was diagnosed and was on meds when she finished her degree and moved back home to find a job. It was when she moved back that she decided she was cured and didn't need meds or therapy. No doctor told her to stop anything or that her diagnosis was temporary. 

I wasn't allowed to see them for 2 whole months. After that incident I can't take my grand kids to spend the night with me. I can visit in their home and spend as many days as I want with them, but they are not allowed to sleep over at grandma's or grandpa's place anymore. The only reason I found out she was no longer on meds was because she was mean and vicious when she got pregnant with their first child. I asked her point blank if the doctor had reduced or changed her neds because they were not working. That is when I found out that she had gotten off of them when they started trying to get pregnant. 

I never stopped harping about how wrong that was, but it always fell on deaf ears. I talked to the X about it too. He said daughter had told him that he was probably bipolar too since their behaviors were very similar. He said he was fine and never had need for medications and that daughter would be fine too. So it was me agsinst all of them. They can't see how insane her behaviors are. They are!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

So last night I talked to daughter about her contacting her previous therapist and seeing her twice a week again (and hopefully her therapist will put her back on meds which I know she needs). She was snippy with me and said she didn't have time for therapy. School started again next week and on her days off she had clinicals to do as well. She said her and her husband had talked and that she only had a year left and she would be able to be more present for her family once she was done. Everything else would be placed on hold until school was done because she couldn't handle anything else until then. 

She told him she needed space and he agreed to give it to her. She told him she loved him and the kids but that she was overwhelmed with work, clinicals and school. She simply could not fit anything else and that is why she had been so difficult. Him wanting her to spemd more time with them was simply not possinle and only made her feel more trapped. She begged him to back off because he was smothering her and she would leave if he pulled that neediness again. 

I didn't buy her crap and told her she found time to fool around at the gym. She could find the time to seek help. If school was that difficult she probably needed to let that go too. She was really pissed by the time I told her about quitting school. She said her contribution was also hard work. She needed to finish school to make more money to support the kids and it came with a price. She said the whole gym ***** thing was simply an outlet to let out stress, but her husband saw some other idiot trainer hitting on her a couple of weeks ago and that was why he was so freaking needy and wanted to control every spare minute she had off. 

Apparently he has topped off at his job and there is no climbing up the ladder anymore. He tried going back to school, but never finished after going part time for 4 years. She applied to school to finish her medical degree and was accepted right away. That is when they agreed that he would probably carry most of the weight at home . After a little over a year of this, naturally, they are both overwhelmed. Add to this that he deep down knows she is doing something outside the marriage and we are where we are now here. 

I don't trust her. She first said she didn't love her husband anymore and wanted out of the martiage. When 
I told her she needed to let him have the kids most of the time, she was livid and there was no way in hell she would agree to that. She said she was in love with the gym *****, but thst she knew how that would end. Now she tells me that affair is over and she just needs space and no demands on her time from home until she is done with school. That the affair was just an outlet to de-stress. Now cheating is OK to do when one is stressed? WTF???

I just laughed in disbelief at that one. She said she learned her lesson and was done with this male crap and school was her focus and outlet now. She booked a one day treatment for herself to decompress at a high end hotel and spa and to recharge for the stressful semester coming up. Her husband was OK with this, in fact it was his idea. 

So, we are back to square one. Rugsweeping, working, school, no worries or responsibilities at home with hubby and kids other than helping to pay the bills for a whole year. By the way, it's not just a year more she needs, it's more like two.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Ever since I discovered TAM you have been my favourite member Bibi. It takes a lot of courage to talk about this,even to strangers like us. 
I wish luck to your Son.Dont worry to much,he is going to be alright .

I am a little bit younger than your Daughter,we work in same profession and you cant help her because she is not willing to help herself. She knows about her condition but she refuses to take any medication. Also she knows what an Affair can do to your Family from her Dad actions but she still cheats. 

Dont be to hard on yourself Bibi. If you tell the truth you are not destroying your grand-Kids lives. 
You gave such a good support to people around here and your Daughter should listen to you,maybe she learns something and finally grows up. 
Seeing your concern I can tell you are a good Nana to little ones.

You should tell your Son in law,it is right thing to do. Maybe they Divorce or maybe they build a good Marriage,who knows but only then She will start looking for herself and people around her.

Or you can keep quiet. Her life will crush even more and she will hurt a lot of people. She tells She no longer loves her Husband so what is the point staying in this Marriage! Ask her this?

If She thinks this Man from Gym is some Don Juan She is wrong. A good Man will never go for a Woman who is taken. 

I really wish you the best. Take care.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Exactly! It's harder when they came from you to disown them. Way easier said than done indeed.
> 
> a parent's love is the closest to unconditional love you will get in this world. I love my daughter and she knows this. I will never throw her to the curb, never!
> 
> I did tell her that there is no way she can love her husband if she is still seeing the gym *****. She managed to fall back in love with her husband when she finally confessed to me that she was having an affair with a howorker. I advised her that the douche bag was just using her and that she was just one of several and of course I was right. She was devastated, but yet here we are in the same ole **** 4 years later and now with two kids instead of just one that was barely over a year old when this happened the first time around.


She does not love her husband and you should be encouraging her to end the marriage. CLEARLY, this is something that she is going to keep doing, and trying to get her to stay with him is pushing her to live a lie. Doesnt her husband deserve better?? I know you dont want to see the household split up, but this really is not about you and what you want.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

I'd like to add that while I appreciate your concern for the children if you insist on your daughter staying in the marriage without changing her ways you're doing everyone a disservice. 

I wish my in-laws had shook some sense into my wh but previous track record and what actually happened were something entirely different. You owe it to your grandchildren and SIL to blow this **** out of the water.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Ever since I discovered TAM you have been my favourite member Bibi. It takes a lot of courage to talk about this,even to strangers like us.
> I wish luck to your Son.Dont worry to much,he is going to be alright .
> 
> I am a little bit younger than your Daughter,we work in same profession and you cant help her because she is not willing to help herself. She knows about her condition but she refuses to take any medication. Also she knows what an Affair can do to your Family from her Dad actions but she still cheats.
> ...


Thank you for the kind words @Be smart, coming from you that means a lot to me. 

I worry a lot about my son, but prayer and leaving him in God's hands really helps me be at peace that he will return home safely. 

I had no idea you were as young as probably my son if you are a bit younger than my daughter. Wow, you are a very mature young gentleman. 

I understand that telling SIL is something almost all say is the way to go, but I can't do it. I would lose my daughter forever and 
I cannot risk that. I cannot ever walk away from her either. Those are two lines this momma will never cross because my child is mine forever no matter how flawed she may be. She will never have to even think she couldn't have her mother's back at any time she needs me. If some of you can and will do this, well, more power to you. I am not like that. I pray and seek God's help that he will find the best way to keerp my grand kids safe. I really do believe that it can only happen if the family unit stays intact because my dd will never allow the kids to live most of the time with dad. 

The reality is that SIL will find out about dd shinanigans and the marriage will indeed end in divorce. It will not be because I blew that up and lost my daughter because I betrayed her. I see it as a betrayal to my child and it is. If some beg to differ I don't see how it isn't a betrayal.


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## JustAFamilyMan (Aug 27, 2015)

How helpful this is I'm not sure, but I had this situation in reverse. I discovered my mother cheating with my best friend's father. My little brother is disabled and has always had a natural attachment to our mother. My choices were terrible. I didn't know how things would end. I didn't know if she would fight and take my little brother (I had decided to stay with my father, little did I fully realize then that the courts didn't really have to listen to what I wanted). I didn't know details of divorce then, but I did know kids in divorced homes always seemed to have it rough. Not a lot of money around.

What I did know for sure: My mother had betrayed us too. Not just him. But us. I'd overheard her once, not knowing who was on the other end, talking about us as "burdens". Because that's how cheating spouses tend to talk about the kids they see locking them in relationships. As weights holding them back. I didn't know this was almost universally true then, but I do now.

My grandmother knew of the affair and all the previous affairs. It wasn't only my father that held her responsible, I did too. Because she knew, and her knowing and not saying something eventually put that burden on ME. I had to be the one to tell my dad and deal with watching him break apart as years of suspicion became reality. Had to watch him look at me and know what I had to be feeling too and that because it hit him that hard he couldn't even be much of a comfort to me. He had his own demons to wrestle with right then. My grandmother helped make that come to pass because she felt my mother was worthy of protection and needed her.

So just know that right now, the steps you're taking, aren't going to necessarily prevent your grand-children's lives from blowing up. They may blow up anyway. And the way they may blow up is one of your grand-children accidentally catching knowledge of mommy's friend and now you've put that burden on the only ones more innocent in this than your son-in-law.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

JustAFamilyMan said:


> How helpful this is I'm not sure, but I had this situation in reverse. I discovered my mother cheating with my best friend's father. My little brother is disabled and has always had a natural attachment to our mother. My choices were terrible. I didn't know how things would end. I didn't know if she would fight and take my little brother (I had decided to stay with my father, little did I fully realize then that the courts didn't really have to listen to what I wanted). I didn't know details of divorce then, but I did know kids in divorced homes always seemed to have it rough. Not a lot of money around.
> 
> What I did know for sure: My mother had betrayed us too. Not just him. But us. I'd overheard her once, not knowing who was on the other end, talking about us as "burdens". Because that's how cheating spouses tend to talk about the kids they see locking them in relationships. As weights holding them back. I didn't know this was almost universally true then, but I do now.
> 
> ...


I'm truly sorry you had to tell your dad. Why did you not tell mom first? Wouldn't that be the most logical thing to do?

My son was almost eleven when he realized daddy was using him and his need to get his braces ajusted with uncle to see his OW. My then brother in law fixed the whole family's teeth problems for free. So, when son needed braces I saw nothing wrong with then husband traveling to his country to visit his family and for son to get his braces there too. The problem was that some of the times they went, son was left with grandma but dad would not sleep there. He told his dad that he didn't understand why he didn't sleep with him at grandma's house like he always used to do. He also didn't understand why dad didn't spend anytime with grandma or his aunts and uncles like they always did in the past. Then husband told som that he had reaquainted with friends and that son shouldn't tell mom that dad spent time with his friends as mom would not like that. So son didn't like it, but he didn't tell me until after dad's affair was discovered. He told me that he was very sorry that he had not told me about his dad leaving him the whole weekend at grandma's and not coming to pick him up until Sunday afternoon to make the 8 hour drive back home. Then husband did this several times. My poor kid knew dad was with his OW and not with friends at all. 

Daughter also caught dad talking with his OW on the phone once. He got out of work two hours before I did. So instead of taking care of our kids, he used those two hours to talk to his OW. Daughter picked up the phone to call one of her friends and dad was talking to a woman. Dad heard the phone being picked up and he asked who had picked up the phone. Daughter told him she wanted to call a friend. He scolded her and told her to hang up as he was busy talking to his sister about adult problems. Daughter hung up, but she knew something was up because she didn't recognize the female voice as being the aunt dad said it was, and most disturbing of all, why did her aunt not say hello to her? Why did the female voice remain silent until daughter hung up?

My kids had suspicions, but they didn't tell me because they wanted to believe dad. They added 2 and two together once his affair was outed though.


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## JustAFamilyMan (Aug 27, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> I'm truly sorry you had to tell your dad. Why did you not tell mom first? Wouldn't that be the most logical thing to do?


Because I knew just enough then to realize that this would give her a chance to both try and force me to stay quiet (which wouldn't have worked, so I would have had to tell him anyway and then also deal with being coerced/begged into silence and the fallout from ignoring that) and to hide things or cover it up. I'm also still not and wasn't then sure if she didn't realize I'd caught her. Even after I told him, she still begged me not to share anything else, not to tell him of past men who it was clear I now knew where other affairs. Days where a co-worker (her then boss) had came home to "go over things" and we'd been sent to play alone in another room.

I don't envy your position, but at least in my experience, my grandmother's decision not to tell my father didn't do me any favors.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

@


JustAFamilyMan said:


> Because I knew just enough then to realize that this would give her a chance to both try and force me to stay quiet (which wouldn't have worked, so I would have had to tell him anyway and then also deal with being coerced/begged into silence and the fallout from ignoring that) and to hide things or cover it up. I'm also still not and wasn't then sure if she didn't realize I'd caught her. Even after I told him, she still begged me not to share anything else, not to tell him of past men who it was clear I now knew where other affairs. Days where a co-worker (her then boss) had came home to "go over things" and we'd been sent to play alone in another room.
> 
> I don't envy your position, but at least in my experience, my grandmother's decision not to tell my father didn't do me any favors.


I can understand you being upset, but this was really all on your mom. 

My X mother in law had suspicions that her son was up to no good, but he told her he was having marital problems with me, and thst if she didn't want him to visit .often he would leave and never come back. She backed off and didn't think of cluing me in. Two of his sisters knew he was cheating, and they didn't tell either. My then brother in law questioned his brother too, and my X told him we were having marital problems because I was having an affair. He needed support from his family until he figured out how to tell our kids what I was doing. His brother even sent my X to a therapist friend of his. My X didn't go to the therspist to save our marriage, he went to her so that dhe could help him figure out the best way to tell our kids he was leaving me. 

No one in his family was responsible for giving me a heads up. My X was solely to blame in all this mess. He put them in a terrible spot. After the whole truth came out, I was hurt with brother in law because he believed my X. I thought he knew me better than that. He was the one in my X's whole family I was closest too. Not once did I blame them for not telling me. In my culture, blood is thicker than water. We all grew up knowing this. I also did what most people from my culture do. I let go of his family and I loved them like my own family. It was very psinful for me, but it's whst my type of people do. Culture plsys a huge role in how we handle life's situations.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> I can understand you being upset, but this was really all on your mom.


In a strict sense, you're correct. What people are trying to warn you about, though, is that when this blows up in real life, you won't be able to expect people to view this situation strictly.

You said it yourself that you feel informing him would be a "betrayal" of your daughter. You confirmed what I said, that your daughter trusts you to lie to protect her. She knows that she can abuse your love to turn you into a co-conspirator. That is what the SIL will likely see, and possibly your grandchildren, too.

You also said that your daughter mentioned thoughts of killing one of your grandchildren. Yet you then go on to say that you will always put maintaining your daughter's trust first, no matter what, because your priority is making sure that she feels like you're "there for her".

I hope you can see why someone might choose the word "enabling", here. You have blatantly stated that you value your daughter's approval of you above all else, even if earning it requires you to tolerate evils that are caused solely by her own mental illness and immoral choices. It seems like everyone is responsible for this but you. Why won't your SIL snoop harder? Why won't God intervene? Not you, though.

Where does this end? How far would the situation with her talking about killing one of her children have gone before you called the police? By the definition that you've provided, that seems like a "betrayal", too, but surely you realize that it would not only be the right thing, but that at a certain point you would have been seen as an accomplice if you did not? Where is the line that you draw to protect yourself and your family from your daughter's misadventures?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Call the police for what dd said and immediately state it was a joke? What good would that do? Who are they going to believe? Do you hobnestly think your posts through? 

How much power do you think I have to change things in my dd life? I can answer that one right now. I have pretty much silch! 

She doesn't have time for therapy, she doesn't have time for her family. How can she physically hurt her kids when she is hardly ever home, and when she is, she couldn't be bothered to spend time with them. In this case is that the worst thing for her to do at this point?

Dad works from home so that when the children can't be at daycare, he will be there to take care of them. He took a pay cut and sacrificed his career for his family. Why do you think he took all that responsability on himself and dd went the career oriented and workaholic route? 

Deep down he knows she can't be trusted with the kids!

Does this give me dome peace of mind, you bet it does!

Will this work long term, no. Will her going back to therapy and getting back on meds work long term, no either. Why, because she is a high functioning bipolar adult that has full control of what she wants and doesn't want in her life! How many BPD individuals are striped of their rights if they can hold a job and live a "normal" life? The answer is the majority. How many of them kill their kids? The truth is that family tskes up the responsibility to secretly take care of this. It's very hard because you are always on alert and worried sick. The only reason you know I live this is because I posted it here. 

Very few have the ovaries/balls to do this. It is very hush hush. Those that throw out this type of advice that I heed to take her to court, I need to blow her cheating ass out are no where near experiencing living with such volatile individuals on a daily basis for many years. Your advice is not a viable solution IRL. 

My post was for parents with adult children like my kid who is sick, is high functioning and has children of their own. Not just any John, Jane and Sally that has adult cheating kids. Big difference in the type of advice that will work for me and my family for sure!


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Call the police for what dd said and immediately state it was a joke? What good would that do? Who are they going to believe? Do you hobnestly think your posts through?


That's not what I meant, and yes, I did think it through.

What I meant was, "let's take your statements to their logical conclusion". I was asking you to think it through.

What if it became clear that she wasn't joking? Isn't there a point where you'd agree that she's going too far and you must "betray" her to protect the rest of your family or simply because it's what is morally right?

For what it's worth, I disagree that it's a betrayal. A betrayal implies that you accepted a duty to keep silent. However, I respect where you're coming from and am just asking you about your own reasoning.



> How much power do you think I have to change things in my dd life? I can answer that one right now. I have pretty much silch!


As numerous posters have said, this ultimately becomes a question of protecting your grand-children and their father, the capable parent who will keep them safe and provided for. It isn't all about your daughter. You may be accustomed to worrying about your daughter above all simply because her crazy-making behavior has constantly kept her at the top of your mind, but that doesn't make it normal or healthy. There are other people in this, too, and maybe blood is thicker than water, but your grand-children are blood, as well, aren't they?



> Dad works from home so that when the children can't be at daycare, he will be there to take care of them. He took a pay cut and sacrificed his career for his family. Why do you think he took all that responsability on himself and dd went the career oriented and workaholic route?


It also sounds like he's making significant sacrifices to support what he believes to be a hard-working, faithful wife as she goes through school, and would make different decisions if he knew the truth.

Ultimately, all the time and energy he's investing in your daughter's situation comes at the expense of your grand-children.



> Very few have the ovaries/balls to do this. It is very hush hush. Those that throw out this type of advice that I heed to take her to court, I need to blow her cheating ass out are no where near experiencing living with such volatile individuals on a daily basis for many years. Your advice is not a viable solution IRL.


I'll be blunt with you: 

My SO's ex-husband is bipolar. I was a pallbearer at her son's funeral when he lost his life enabling his father.

I am very familiar with what goes on, all the rhetoric and rationalizations used by dysfunctional families who tell themselves they have "balls" for keeping it all "hush hush" and letting mental illness consume their lives and the lives of those around them, always "on alert and worried sick". Her son had most of the same excuses for letting his father ruin his life and drag him into his craziness, most of them fed to him by his lunatic grand-mother who believed that her idiot son, who had given most of what should have been his son's inheritance to prostitutes and drug dealers, was the center of the universe and that everyone else in the family had to protect him at all costs.

In my opinion, you're kidding yourself, blaming your culture for harmful coping mechanisms that are not unique to your culture at all, and should research co-dependence.


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## JustAFamilyMan (Aug 27, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> @
> 
> I can understand you being upset, but this was really all on your mom.


No it wasn't, else she wouldn't have had a decision to make, nor would you. It's fine to say this is the decision you're making and here are the reasons. Not everyone will agree with you. But not telling your son-in-law is a choice you make every day that will lead to consequences as surely as telling him would. Was my mom largely responsible? Of course. Was she solely responsible for the decision to cheat? Yeah. But she didn't force my grandmother to remain silent. In a situation where a number of people did things that lead to my having to have that conversation with my father, my grandmother was responsible for her portion just like everyone else.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

JustAFamilyMan said:


> No it wasn't, else she wouldn't have had a decision to make, nor would you. It's fine to say this is the decision you're making and here are the reasons. Not everyone will agree with you. But not telling your son-in-law is a choice you make every day that will lead to consequences as surely as telling him would. Was my mom largely responsible? Of course. Was she solely responsible for the decision to cheat? Yeah. But she didn't force my grandmother to remain silent. In a situation where a number of people did things that lead to my having to have that conversation with my father, my grandmother was responsible for her portion just like everyone else.


I didn't see it that way when it was done to me and that is really all. You see what I did as wrong just like you see what your grandma did as wrong. Our views differ and that doesn't mean either one of us is wrong. I don't want or need to change this point of view and neither should anyone else change yours or mine for that matter.

That is what I am trying to say with your quoted post. My answer is a collection of all that have posted that share the view that I am wrong according to them for not betraying dd. That I am not taking care of my blood when I don't betray dd and tell SIL and help him get custody of the children. The chances of him getting full custudy after exposure are slim to none in all honesty. Your dad couldn't do it either. You couldn't live with dad. You witnessed his inability to care for you. That is very real. That is my fear too. My dd will have the kids most of the time. Who will protect them then if dad can't be there? Your mom wasn't bipolar, my dd is! 

The courts will not accept my word, there is no solid proof that will stand in court after college that she was diagnosed or medicated for this disorder. My dd made sure that didn't show up in any records of hers. The only recods available are from the shrink she saw in college. No one has requested those records. I don't have access to them. Her written permission to request them for health and medical reasons are the only institutions who could get their hands on them. Well, they don't request what they have no idea exists!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I guess if you have always parented in this fashion it's pretty obvious why she makes the poor decisions that she does. Your enabling has saved her from any consequence due to her miserable decision making her entire life. You are unquestionably an accomplice and an enabler as JAFM mentioned. I just hope you can accept the consequences of your decision not to tell SIL. You WILL have to pay the piper sooner or later. Count on it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I guess if you have always parented in this fashion it's pretty obvious why she makes the poor decisions that she does. Your enabling has saved her from any consequence due to her miserable decision making her entire life. You are unquestionably an accomplice and an enabler as JAFM mentioned. I just hope you can accept the consequences of your decision not to tell SIL. You WILL have to pay the piper sooner or later. Count on it.


How was this helpful to anyone? You are just pissed because I am not doing what most want. I posted this about keeping quiet a long time ago on TAM and it's funny how no one noticed or were so darn opinionated about MY decisions or parenting skills. 

I simply posted the time when the other shoe dropped when it happened and it is amazing how much hate bleeds through in pretty much every single response. Very interesting indeed. 

I posted this same story on a forum that helps families going through similar situations with their loved ones and the responses are so different. I'm a newbie there. A few hateful and pushy responses too, but for the most part much more understanding as to my reasons for the silence. 

TAM is biased at anyone that dares side with a cheater regardless of the reasons. No reason justifies my decision about not following TAM's way here and I am not new or my silence about dd transgressions isn't either. The narrow mindedness is mind boggling quite frankly. Wow!!!!!


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

Ok so if all you are getting here are responses that you don't want, why continue to engage with people in this thread? Why compare tam to the other forum if you're finding more helpful responses there? Why not just post nor over there about this particular issue?


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## JustAFamilyMan (Aug 27, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> I didn't see it that way when it was done to me and that is really all. You see what I did as wrong just like you see what your grandma did as wrong. Our views differ and that doesn't mean either one of us is wrong. I don't want or need to change this point of view and neither should anyone else change yours or mine for that matter.


I'm only trying to help you understand that the perspective you have about what is right and wrong is not certain to align with the perspective your grandchildren have on the situation when they inevitably learn. Maybe it will be, but maybe it won't. Enough of a chance that it would probably help to not use them as part of the reasoning you have for keeping silent as at least when I read that, it doesn't hold water. "Wanting" and "needing" to change a point of view isn't an issue, not for me anyway. I don't choose points of view and then decide in advance they require defense. I choose them based on what I know at the time, and will continue to do so whether they change as a result or are reinforced. Effectively telling people to stop giving you advice who you asked to give you advice seems counter productive, but I can understand why this is an emotional period for you. Really.

Really though, not telling him and telling him both have consequences. Staying silent is as much an action as sharing what you know with him. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of either path. Best of luck to you, and I wish people weren't put in these situations. It's awful.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

JustAFamilyMan said:


> I'm only trying to help you understand that the perspective you have about what is right and wrong is not certain to align with the perspective your grandchildren have on the situation when they inevitably learn. Maybe it will be, but maybe it won't. Enough of a chance that it would probably help to not use them as part of the reasoning you have for keeping silent as at least when I read that, it doesn't hold water. "Wanting" and "needing" to change a point of view isn't an issue, not for me anyway. I don't choose points of view and then decide in advance they require defense. I choose them based on what I know at the time, and will continue to do so whether they change as a result or are reinforced. Effectively telling people to stop giving you advice who you asked to give you advice seems counter productive, but I can understand why this is an emotional period for you. Really.
> 
> Really though, not telling him and telling him both have consequences. Staying silent is as much an action as sharing what you know with him. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of either path. Best of luck to you, and I wish people weren't put in these situations. It's awful.


What you are saying is not something I was not aware of. Nothing about the advice given is bringing any new light to my situation. What was new was the overwhelming amount of pushy posters about a problem and the way I handled it since the beginning. When I wrote about dd and what she did and my reaction to her situation, I didn't recieve all this nasty opinions/advice accompanied with way too darn nasty and pushy attitudes. 

What changed for such viciousness? The only thing that changed was that daughter did it again. Well, I was expecting that and discussed it here on TAM. I simply didn't know when it would happen though. 

Trying to fend off the nasty attacks gets old and even someone like me that posts often needs to retaliate because the attacks are just plain vicious and don't help at all. When I realized the nastiness my POV caused this time around, I seeked advice in a forum where families had issues of all kinds with people thst have borderline personality disorders. 

Sadly TAM doesn't really help with situations where the OP is dealing with a cheating spouse and the betrayed is being kept in the dark. This is the crux of the problem. Members here take my situation as personal when it has nothing to do with any of them personally. Their advice is very narrow minded and vicious. They go for the kill so to speak. 

Well, i'm not going anywhere and the way I handled my situation is not going to change because the majority here can't be unbiased against cheaters. So for the poster that said I should go to the other forum and not post here, that ain't gonna happen. It's not my fault folks here can't separate my situation from their prior hurts.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Trying to fend off the nasty attacks gets old and even someone like me that posts often needs to retaliate because the attacks are just plain vicious and don't help at all. When I realized the nastiness my POV caused this time around, I seeked advice in a forum where families had issues of all kinds with people thst have borderline personality disorders.
> 
> Sadly TAM doesn't really help with situations where the OP is dealing with a cheating spouse and the betrayed is being kept in the dark. This is the crux of the problem. Members here take my situation as personal when it has nothing to do with any of them personally. Their advice is very narrow minded and vicious. They go for the kill so to speak.
> 
> Well, i'm not going anywhere and the way I handled my situation is not going to change because the majority here can't be unbiased against cheaters. So for the poster that said I should go to the other forum and not post here, that ain't gonna happen. It's not my fault folks here can't separate my situation from their prior hurts.


At least some of the "nasty" or "vicious" "attacks" that you're perceiving are merely people becoming politely frustrated with you.

Toward the end, here, you even resorted to telling us that the only reason we don't see things your way is because your situation dealing with your daughter's mental illness is special and we just don't get it, and that most people don't have "the balls" to do what you're doing. When I pointed out that I am, in fact, very much acquainted with this, you didn't respond.

Which is fine. You're free to do that, of course. Much of your language, however, smacks of denial about the role you've taken on. It's not reasonable to expect others to tell you only what makes you happy, and dismiss them as "inflammatory", "nasty", "vicious" "attackers" if they don't. Your posts are packed with attacks on nearly everything, from the gym to your ex-husband to your daughter's last side piece to your daughter's workplace to us. It's your SIL's fault for not snooping hard enough, God's fault for not intervening, your culture's fault for making blood thicker than water, the forum's fault for not understanding your situation. It doesn't matter anyway because the courts will never help, psychiatric intervention will never help, and your ex-husband and SIL take your daughter's side against you.

Everyone and everything in this situation is the problem, except you. As soon as anyone sees it any other way, they're a problem, too. It's not hard to imagine how the communication style we've observed here would play out in real life, and I think nearly all posters here have been very patient and respectful in trying to steer you toward a healthier perspective.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Where did I say my stance in this situation made me faultless? I have stated that I feel torn for what SIL is going through. No one likes deceit. I was cheated on and the lies are the worst, but that I cannot be the one to tell SIL. That is what drives folks crazy and pushy. They want to change my stance. When someone tells you they can't do this on repeated occasions why can't you believe it. ( by you, I mean a collective you)?

Bombarding my thread with the same thing over and over again will accomplish what? My daughter is not special, she is a serial cheater and I knew that based on her behavior after the dust settled so to speak. She tried to fix her transgression the first time and she accomplished this. Time went on and she wasn't happy/satisfied with her life and she cheated again. She doesn't end her marriage because she knows she is the one with the problem. Her selfishness didn't start with the cheating, she is selfish and entitled. I am not love blind about who she is at all. 

I love her, I worry about her and I know there is very little I can do to change or influence her. I also fear for my grand kids and SIL. My feelings and concerns are legit and I know this will not end well. When it comes to her, things not ending well is sadly the norm. 

Letting her go is not an option. She isn't a stranger or a distant relative. That is what makes this situation different but not special. If I knew my SIL stood a chance of getting full custody of the kids, I wouldn't hesitate to help him with that. Sadly, I know that has the same chances I have to exert change in dd as well. I am doing the best I can with the resources I have. 

My so called inaction is indeed doing something. It is not like I walked away from this and never turned back. The advice some folks here say such as taking her to court, aid in legally taking away her kids from her, threatening her that I leave until she changes are not feasable actions that will accomplish a positive outcome or keep my grand kids safe. I have NO power to exert that change. It's hard to do and accept, but what I am doing is the best option I have come up with. 

Some will beg to differ, but those "some" are not me and this situation is not personal to them or their loved ones. I appreciate those that posted because it is concerning to them, but my choices are what I think are best for me and mine. 

With that said, I have been here a while and know the lynch mob mentality that goes around here in TAM, this thread has alot of that mentality disguised as advice to help me. It is a disguise and I know the difference. So, I will not answer to those types of posters any more. I sound like a broken record stating the same thing over and over with simply different words or examples and that is insane. I have had enough of crazy.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Where did I say my stance in this situation made me faultless? I have stated that I feel torn for what SIL is going through. No one likes deceit. I was cheated on and the lies are the worst, but that I cannot be the one to tell SIL. That is what drives folks crazy and pushy. They want to change my stance. When someone tells you they can't do this on repeated occasions why can't you believe it. ( by you, I mean a collective you)?
> 
> Bombarding my thread with the same thing over and over again will accomplish what? My daughter is not special, she is a serial cheater and I knew that based on her behavior after the dust settled so to speak. She tried to fix her transgression the first time and she accomplished this. Time went on and she wasn't happy/satisfied with her life and she cheated again. She doesn't end her marriage because she knows she is the one with the problem. Her selfishness didn't start with the cheating, she is selfish and entitled. I am not love blind about who she is at all.
> 
> ...


Then perhaps it would be good for you to request a moderator lock this thread.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Your silent in saying nothing, make you an accomplice, you are basically looking the other way....and that makes you a hypocrite. If you can accept that then move on. Because denial in the face of a transgression makes you share in that guilt. What about his heath....stds that he may be subjected too...is that fair?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Then perhaps it would be good for you to request a moderator lock this thread.


Good idea, but if I don't engage in trying to fend off pushy posters that are repetative, this thread will fizzle out like it should. Thanks!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Your silent in saying nothing, make you an accomplice, you are basically looking the other way....and that makes you a hypocrite. If you can accept that then move on. Because denial in the face of a transgression makes you share in that guilt. What about his heath....stds that he may be subjected too...is that fair?


This is throwing guilt trips on me to force a change I can't do for reasons stated here over and over. 

The insults served what purpose...hypocrite? Meh.

You are not posting anything new that I don't know or somehow can control. STDs you say? What mskes you think this was not discussed at nuisance with the guilty party?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> This is throwing guilt trips on me to force a change I can't do for reasons stated here over and over. You are not posting anything new that I don't know or somehow can control. STDs you say? What mskes you think this was not discussed at nuisance with the guilty party?


Do you tend to be a defensive person in other aspects of your life? Do you tend to continue arguing for the sake of arguing? Do you have to prove to others that you are right simply to prove that you are right?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> TAM is biased at anyone that dares side with a cheater regardless of the reasons. No reason justifies my decision about not following TAM's way here and I am not new or my silence about dd transgressions isn't either. The narrow mindedness is mind boggling quite frankly. Wow!!!!!


Of course. Because cheating is inherently bad. That's not narrowmindedness. It's appropriate. We are biased against thieves. We are biased against scam artists. We are biased against crooked politicians. We are biased against many things, and rightfully so--because those things inherently deserve negaitive bias. 

We are biased against liars and nobody says that's a bad bias. And cheating is particularly harmful subset of lying. Moreover, knowing of the lie and not revealing it to SIL is in itself a lie of omission. He deserves to know.



Bibi1031 said:


> Sadly TAM doesn't really help with situations where the OP is dealing with a cheating spouse and the betrayed is being kept in the dark. This is the crux of the problem.


Actually, the crux of the problem is that the betrayed is being kept in the dark. You're looking for a type of resolution for which there can be none. The only way to deal with this is out in the open.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Bibi
FWIW, you know in your heart of hearts that your daughter is going to crash and burn at one point. You know that as a mom, you cannot out her to her husband, as that would injure your relationship with her. So, your hands are tied behind your back. I do not envy you your position, because it stinks, but you are stuck with it. As a parent, I know the feeling of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I watched my MIL who dealt with a mentally ill daughter (my SIL-don't ask, but if nightmares came true...), with patience and grace that I only wish I possessed, but I learned my lesson so that if that day ever came, I would be able to deal with it, or show others. 

So, the only advice I can give you is to prepare yourself for the day that this all comes down. There is no predicting what will happen, which is in itself a chaotic feeling, but ensure that you have sufficient funds, and a place to stay for your SIL, or grandchildren or daughter.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> This is throwing guilt trips on me to force a change I can't do for reasons stated here over and over.
> 
> The insults served what purpose...hypocrite? Meh.
> 
> You are not posting anything new that I don't know or somehow can control. STDs you say? What mskes you think this was not discussed at nuisance with the guilty party?


Bibi...I am not trying to insult you, I am trying to get through to you, tell the truth do you not see yourself as an accomplice? The least you should do is turn your back to your daughter, tell your door is closed until she addresses the situation...that you are disgusted by her actions.

There is only one victim here your sil.....I guess you prove the old adage blood is thicker than water.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Taxman said:


> Bibi
> FWIW, you know in your heart of hearts that your daughter is going to crash and burn at one point. You know that as a mom, you cannot out her to her husband, as that would injure your relationship with her. So, your hands are tied behind your back. I do not envy you your position, because it stinks, but you are stuck with it. As a parent, I know the feeling of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I watched my MIL who dealt with a mentally ill daughter (my SIL-don't ask, but if nightmares came true...), with patience and grace that I only wish I possessed, but I learned my lesson so that if that day ever came, I would be able to deal with it, or show others.
> 
> So, the only advice I can give you is to prepare yourself for the day that this all comes down. There is no predicting what will happen, which is in itself a chaotic feeling, but ensure that you have sufficient funds, and a place to stay for your SIL, or grandchildren or daughter.


Thank you. The money thing is an aspect I had not thought about and you are right that things have to be set in place for this.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Oh yes, I'm the poster child for bnlood is thicker thsn water. I have lived it my whole life and have been on the receiving end of it as well as the giving end of it too.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> How was this helpful to anyone? You are just pissed because I am not doing what most want. I posted this about keeping quiet a long time ago on TAM and it's funny how no one noticed or were so darn opinionated about MY decisions or parenting skills.
> 
> I simply posted the time when the other shoe dropped when it happened and it is amazing how much hate bleeds through in pretty much every single response. Very interesting indeed.
> 
> ...


Me thinks thee doth protest too much. 
Read the title of YOUR thread. You posted asking a question ,then get incensed and offended when you don't like the answer. If everyone here is so biased why did you ask here? You should probably think real hard about who is being narrow minded, as you accused others of being. Sometimes the truth sucks, but it's still the truth.
No skin off my back if you want to permanently damage your grandchildren to the benefit of your damaged daughter. Have at it. You asked and I answered.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Thank you. The money thing is an aspect I had not thought about and you are right that things have to be set in place for this.


I have watched my wife bail her sister fly out of a US hospital far away from home one dark early Saturday morning. MIL had contingency funds that paid for my wife and her younger sister to fly to a distant state, pay a medical bill (we're Canadians and our health insurance was not accepted, obviously). Yes, a contingency fund is extremely appropriate in this circumstance. As are hotel vouchers, etc etc.

At that point, I also knew that we were being designated as the couple who would take over for my in-laws in these matters.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

What I would do is give them one chance to come clean and tell the truth. if they didn't we wouldn't have a relationship until such time they became the young adult I raised. As with their mother I would have no relationship with a cheater. You can't be the example until you live it


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Taxman said:


> I have watched my wife bail her sister fly out of a US hospital far away from home one dark early Saturday morning. MIL had contingency funds that paid for my wife and her younger sister to fly to a distant state, pay a medical bill (we're Canadians and our health insurance was not accepted, obviously). Yes, a contingency fund is extremely appropriate in this circumstance. As are hotel vouchers, etc etc.
> 
> At that point, I also knew that we were being designated as the couple who would take over for my in-laws in these matters.




Yeah, my dd doesn't have issues at work because emotions are not involved, but one never knows and she carries the bigger financial burden in the home because SIL took the paycut and narrowed his choices drastically to work from home. Even for that he puts the kids first. Sadly, she can't value all that she has and stomps on everything she should treasure. 

She has had to stay at work because the city is on shut down due to storm Harvey's rains that flooded the area where she works at. The hospital personnel that was working when shut down began are stuck there as no one can leave and no one can come in either. I am stuck in Houston and am helping with the kids. His job has a lot of over time, but being mom and dad to the kids, he can seldomly take advantage of that. He put in over time this whole weekend because I could help.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bibi1031 said:


> She has had to stay at work because the city is on shut down due to storm Harvey's rains that flooded the area where she works at.
> 
> I am stuck in Houston and am helping with the kids.


Stay safe!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Thor said:


> Stay safe!


Thank you. We are all safe, but houston is dead. No one out on the roads and everything is closed. Lots of flooding. I tried to head back to south texas today as no rain at all over where I live but the two roads to leave to where I live had area floods and therefore I am trapped until probably Wednesday. The rain is not very heavy but it seldomly stops. It rained pretty much all night last night, and all day today. 100% chance of the same for tomorrow. Hopefully everyone from TAM that lives in the areas where Harvey touched in some form or fashion are safe and dry.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Stay safe anyway


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

Ack, good luck to you with the storm.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I had a long talk with dd and she is truly done with her marriage. Divorce is very probable. I did get her to see that she will not be able to handle the kids on her own and that maybe daddy should have them most of the time. I can't believe she actually may agree to this. Thank goodness for this. I honestly think he will end up with almost full custody. 

She admitted thst she was a ****ty parent and he was a great father. I told her that I feared she would mistreat the kids and cause them terrible harm because they stressed her too much. She admitted she harbored those fears too. That SIL had been asking her to seek medical attention on several occasions. He told her her personality had changed for the worse when she stopped going to therapy and gotten off her medications. She asked me if I had noticed the changes he was talking about. 

Finsally the cat was out of the bag. Some of the bone chilly comments she had told me in regards to the kids, she didn't remember and others she did. She didn't quite accept that she needed medication, but she did fully agree that SIL should and could take much better care of the kids. That there was no way she could compare to him and that seeing her old therapist was the route to go. 

I hope she sees her old therapist and gets on meds again, but i sincerely doubt it. What does seem like it will happen is that my grand babies will live mostly under dad's care. I hope SIL agrees to the separation that eventually will end in divorce. I am almost sure him keeping the kids most of the time will not be something he will not accept, but we shall see. I have hope that the babies will be safe, much safer than they have been.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My SIL has full custody of his kids from his first marriage. The mom became a drug addict along with all that goes with that. He is a great dad. He cooks meals from scratch every night for them, not nuking frozen junk in the microwave. He ran the house when he was a single dad, he made sure the kids were well cared for. He did have a lot of help from his siblings and parents. Now my daughter is married to him and they have kids together. SIL still does the bulk of the real cooking. He is a real superstar with the kids. My daughter is now "mom" to all the kids in every way, and I consider all of them real grandkids. Those kids have a large network of adults who love them and support them.

It really can work out for your grand kids. I expect your SIL will want you to be involved with the kids even if he remarries. Divorce is so common these days that it isn't weird for a kid to have 3 sets of grandparents, and the step designation isn't so important.

I am glad your daughter is recognizing she needs to seek competent medical care.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Sadly her recognizing she needs help, I sadly have learned doesn't last long. I have been trying since I found out she got off all kinds of help and here we still are with hollow false hopes so to speak. 

I would take the gift of being close to my grand children as much as possible, and I am certain my X will do the same as we adore those kids and treasure every time we have the privilidge to enjoy them. Whether they are with mom or dad, for us that will not change. Knowing that there is a very high probability that dad will have primary care lifts off so many fears like you can't imagine. 

I truly hope he finds a partner that knows and values his true worth. My dd is not marriage material at all just like her dad before her, but I didn't know him all that well until we had our first kid. I have a feeling my SIL experienced something similar with dd. Once they had to wear several hats that involved a lot of emotionsl needs, they are incapable of functioning well and they change for the worse and distsnce themselves because they can"t handle things any other way, and the relationship is sadly eventually doomed. I know in my case, I kept accepting less and less as time went on. No relationship can survive when the crumbs being given become less and less.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I'd go to the gym..find that guy..and with as much adrenaline as you'll probably have in you at the time..jack him up (or find some other big guy to follow you in and do it for you), and tell him if that if he ever sees your daughter again..it'll be the LAST time he sees is nuts!!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

memyselfandi said:


> I'd go to the gym..find that guy..and with as much adrenaline as you'll probably have in you at the time..jack him up (or find some other big guy to follow you in and do it for you), and tell him if that if he ever sees your daughter again..it'll be the LAST time he sees is nuts!!


It's funny because that crossed my mind when she did it the first time, but not now that I know that the other men are not to blame. This is all on my 30 year old kid. She broke her vows, she lies and manipulates. She refuses the therapy and medication as well as the diagnosis that could help her fix all this mess she creates. If she doesn't get professional help she is going to lose it all, not just her marriage.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

memyselfandi said:


> I'd go to the gym..find that guy..and with as much adrenaline as you'll probably have in you at the time..jack him up (or find some other big guy to follow you in and do it for you), and tell him if that if he ever sees your daughter again..it'll be the LAST time he sees is nuts!!


While I understand the impulse, this is a textbook example of how a bipolar relative can stir up so much craziness that the family reacts in a way that destroys them.

My LTR's ex-husband, as his untreated condition declined, spent years paying a stripper to pretend to be his girlfriend. He'd take her to get beauty treatments on his birthday, because he was so lonely that he had become convinced that the stripper's mere presence was a gift to him. It came out that he'd told a mutual friend she "doesn't like to touch him" so he'd pay her in cash for hugs.

I could go on, but the point is that this is exactly what it sounds like: an unbalanced person being taken advantage of. Once his mother found out, she enlisted the rest of the close family as flying monkeys to "save" her innocent golden boy by driving the stripper away.

Guess how that ended? In court, with a 'mandatory arrest' restraining order protecting the stripper from the bipolar ex's family. Their ultimate reward for being humiliated and risking prison was that the stripper decided to take him for everything he had. He ended up signing over a large percentage of his pension.

(Good work, idiots. *slow clap*)

The point is that bipolar or not, OP's daughter is an adult. Her choices may be influenced by mental illness, but they are still her choices and she is doing what she wants to do, with someone who wants to do it with her. Trying to terrorize the third party to control her daughter would not only needlessly put OP at risk, but lead to her being written off as the crazy one. 

The situation may be so bad that doing something extreme to protect the loved one and get the problem out of your way seems justified in the moment, but if you take a deep breath and step back to look at the big picture, you realize that the loved one is the one who is vectoring all of this garbage into your life and that they don't need or want your protection. OP can share what she knows and offer a sympathetic ear and good advice, but in the end, she can only truly help the people who want help, and only to the extent that they want it.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Hello @Bibi1031 how are you ? 

I havent been online for a while and today I thought about your thread and decided to check up on you. 
Wanted to send you a private msg. but maybe that would be to awkward for you. 

I have read all responses from other members and I think most of them are to harsh on you. 
I truly belive you did more then most of us would. I dont have Children yet but I think I would do the same thing as you did. Almost all of the people who commented here would do the same as you or me!

You tried talking with her,asking her to be a better Mom,Wife,go back to Therapy,come clean and what else!!!
Also you chose nice words to describe/speak about your Son in law and your grandkids. This tells a lot.Huge Respect for you.
I have seen Parents defending their Children no matter what.They always blame others for their actions. Most of them will not speak about things like you did (cheating,mental illnes,not being a good Mom/Dad...)..They always think their Child is the best. It is not easy to speak with total strangers and then get flamed by them. You are a strong Lady. 

It is a good thing your Daughter wants to end this Marriage. Will be the best move for all of you. 
She will finally "let you free" and you will not feel guilty or something like that.My English just broke ,sorry. I cant find the right word. You can continue to be a good Grandmom.
Your Son in law can focus more on himself and his Kids. He is still a young Man and good Dad so future should be good for him. 
Your Daughter hopefully finds a help. If not for herself then for her Children. 
And the last their Children. In a long run it is always better to have a nice,safe Home then the one who is broken. I know this because my Home was broken and I saw my Sister and Brother growing up there. Not a nice place trust me. 

I didnt forget about your Son. How are you dealing with all of this? 
I know you worry about him but like I said before he is going to be alright. I have a feeling he is more like you . 

Have a nice Night. Best wishes to you and your Family.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Hello @Bibi1031 how are you ?
> 
> I havent been online for a while and today I thought about your thread and decided to check up on you.
> Wanted to send you a private msg. but maybe that would be to awkward for you.
> ...


Things are going along @Be smart. My daughter listened and is in therapy. She is also back on medication. Her marriage is better and she is closer to her kids and husband and not as detached as she had been for so long. The diagnosis that she is indeed bipolar is correct along with PTSD with dissociation included in the mix. The shrink she saw in Houston dismissed the old therapist's diagnosis and took her off all the meds. This was all because she was high functioning just like any other alcohol, drug, or substance user out there in the working world. 

Just this past Tuesday, her therapist made a break through and my daughter has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with dissociation and not just Bipolar disorder. This all came to a head when hurricane Harvey damaged her home and the PTSD and dissociation hit her full force. She cut her hair one Sunday and when she went to bed that night, completely forgot what she had done all day Sunday. When she went to work on Monday, some of her coworkers commented on her haircut and she couldn't recall where and at what time she had had her hair done the day before. She actually didn't remember what she did all that Sunday at all. It was very weird but she told no one. This was about 3 weeks ago. Then on Monday she was called into the office because her boss noticed that she didn't clock either in or out 9 times in the two week pay period and her time was all over the place. She almost got fired for this as 5 is the limit in a year! When she talked to her therapist about the haircut incident, she asked my daughter if she had ever blacked out like that in the past. 

She mentioned that when she was around 4, we took her to a psychiatrist because we noticed that she would masturbate. That freaked both her dad and me out as I had been molested very early on in my life and I knew that her doing this was far from normal and that abuse had occurred. Long story short, my daughter had no recollection of abuse and she was very verbal at that age (once you can communicate, then memory is also more clearly active as well). I clearly remember like if it was yesterday the first time I was molested and I was around 4 or 5 years old too. The psychiatrist concluded that DD had indeed suffered abuse and that is why she was always angry and why she had a huge fear of abandonment as well. I was late for about 10 minutes after one of her sessions because I went to get us something to eat for when she came out of therapy, and traffic was bad that day. My daughter was very upset and that is when she noticed that DD's anger was caused by fear of being left behind. At that time, we also noticed that she would never cry, she simply displayed any emotions in anger fits. She was a very moody child and was never happy. It was always a struggle to do any outings with her because she was always in a sour mood. 

The therapist told my daughter that that was when PTSD with dissociation started. I feel terrible because we did notice that her not remembering was not right, but the therapy she was given when she was that young worked as we followed the therapist's orders to distract her when we caught her doing it and not to freak out or scold her. We simply washed her hands and took her out to play or played with her inside the house and didn't leave her alone at all. A couple of months later, the problem disappeared and we noticed her little hands didn't smell anymore. My now X and I thought that maybe it was better not to put her through the trauma of remembering what had happened if she was now much better and what she couldn't remember could not hurt her right? Talk about us being in denial. The only way out through pain and trauma is by getting through it, not by stuffing it! Apparently, she stuffed a lot of things as well as emotions, hence her never crying. 

So, she is going to see her therapist once a week instead of twice a month. She will start treatment for the PTSD through hypnosis because the signs of trauma that came out through her masturbation incidents needs to be dug out along with any other trauma she repressed and no one noticed. Thankfully, this therapist is trained in treating PTSD. She has had several patients that have been successfully cured and they had severe dissociation (mostly military). Her 2 affairs, fear of abandonment, sensitivity to sound, frequent tardiness and detachment are all part of this ailment. 

This is all very fresh for me and I am very worried for her sanity and future. The therapist seems to believe that she will be OK. I am not that certain. I know she was not vaginally raped because we bathed her every evening and her privates were not swollen and there was no bleeding that dad or I could ever recall (she loved bubble baths, she still enjoys long baths til this day). That is also what DD told the therapist. She had a very normal childhood compared to some poor kids who are severely neglected or physically and sexually abused. The therapist said that not everyone reacts to trauma the same way and that this was no ones fault as her parents did the best they could at the time this happened. That back in the early 80s only people that were in the field of psychiatry were aware of how to best treat and deal with this. I still can't believe we decided her not remembering was for the best. Not ever crying was another thing we should have paid more attention too. We figured that anger and not tears was her way of displaying when she was dissatisfied with anything. 

My son is in Afghanistan. He left a month ago. He called to let us know he made it over there just fine and that he would let us know how to send him mail and how to contact him as well. I just pray for him everyday. May the good Lord keep him safe and healthy. May he make good choices and come back home safe and in one piece. You are right @Be smart, he is very similar to me. He is the one of my two children that physically looks like me as well. DD is more like her dad in every way, even in the looks department, she physically looks like her dad's sisters.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

We have had similar experience but we stayed out of it. Consider that alternative.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

leon2100 said:


> We have had similar experience but we stayed out of it. Consider that alternative.


I have done this after she got back into therapy and on meds. Now that she has a professional to talk to, she communicates with me much more and things are more relaxed. The marriage and her behaviors are strictly between her and her therapist. As a mother, all she informs me about are her illnesses which are very important to me. Her husband is in IC as well. She has left the gym where she had met her AP and now her and her husband attend the same gym and go pretty much at the same time. I didn't do this, her therapist is the one she is listening too (thank goodness she left that place where she trained with her AP; she didn't want to and sadly most of us on this forum know why). The good thing is that she found out that another woman he was seeing when they supposedly (I don't think it really stopped, it just became an EA before she found out he was seeing others while they were still together because the pregnant woman's timing indicates that he was not honest nor faithful) stopped the affair is pregnant. This has been the catalyst that helped her move on and him not pester her. He has plenty of problems to bother seeking my married daughter out. This woman he got pregnant is the daughter of one of the gym owners. His training days at that place may very well come to an end.

She is better at protecting herself this time around by going to the gym mostly in the company of her husband and not alone. This gym has baby sitting facilities as well. The other one did not. She is still very dissatisfied in her marriage. It appears that her detachment from her husband started when their first child was born. She has not been able to allow him back in since then. That was a bit over 5 years ago!

I don't know if the marriage will survive, but I know that she will accept that the kids' dad is the best parent for their children and she will not alienate them from him. She may very well accept that he get primary custody of them. She has a long way towards full recovery and she is well aware of this now. It is sad, but it's the ugly truth. My poor child is a royal mess and that started 20 some years ago. It also helps that she did not attend medical school this semester and is able to go to therapy as many times as she needs this semester as things are more relaxed without that stress.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Did any of you have a child do this to their significant other? How did you deal with this awful truth about your own flesh and blood?


No, not a child, it was my adult (married with kids) brother. After telling him what a stupid **** he was, I gave him a choice, he had one week to tell his wife he was having an affair (with a follow up call from her) OR I would tell his wife myself.

He told his wife on his own.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Red Sonja said:


> No, not a child, it was my adult (married with kids) brother. After telling him what a stupid **** he was, I gave him a choice, he had one week to tell his wife he was having an affair (with a follow up call from her) OR I would tell his wife myself.
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what I would do. Give a set time for them to come clean or then I would do it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Poor husband. I also want to say I am sorry for you too. You are just as much a victim in all this. I hope it all gets better I really do.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Thank you for answering @Bibi1031. 

Her Therapist is a good one and she speaks true words especially when she told you this is not your fault or your Ex Husband. Both of you did as much as you could so please dont blame yourself. 
Reading your words made me sad tonight and I cant even imagine how you feel right now. I wish some of my words or from other members help you in some way. 

On the positive side it seems like your Daughter is finally taking control of her Life. Her problems will not disappear just like that but with the huge support she gets from you and others she can make it.Her recovery is going to take a while.She is going to face her demons,fight her problems and make a better Life for herself,her Husband and their Children. She doesnt have to stay Married to make this happen. We know People can Reconcile from worse situation and be happy and they also can get Divorced from little things. 
Maybe one day she does the same thing for her own Children and be a good Mother for them. 

I have read your question about asking "who are the American allies in Afghanistan". There is lot of them.The list is so long.One of the best soldiers are going to be there. Your Son is going to have a good Friends there,even Brothers I would call them. They look after each other Bibi so dont worry to much. 
Lonley Husband is a Veteran so he can confirm all of this.
Also your Son has expirience and he knows how to look after himself . 

I dont know if this is going to help you Bibi but my Father worked for almost 30 Years in some war Countries. He was not a Soldier,he was a construction Worker but nothing ever happend to him. Your Son is more prepared and have a better knowledge so he is going to be alright. Just saying. 

I almost forgot and I really hope People dont hate me for this but exposing your Co-worker,Friend,Brother,Sister for Cheating is not the same for your own Daughter/Son. 
We have to be more realistic and look around ourselfs.Parents defend their Children most of the time.They are never to blame for starting a fight,dealing drugs,Cheating...
Bibi is different. She never tried to defend her Daughters actions. She is the one who "attacked" her the most and tell her this was not a good way to live your Life or hurt another Person who is close to you. We should not be rude towards her. She was also betrayed by her Husband and in-laws. 

I had to be in bed long time ago . 

Good luck Bibi. Best wishes.
Stay strong.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Thank you for answering @Bibi1031.
> 
> Her Therapist is a good one and she speaks true words especially when she told you this is not your fault or your Ex Husband. Both of you did as much as you could so please dont blame yourself.
> Reading your words made me sad tonight and I cant even imagine how you feel right now. I wish some of my words or from other members help you in some way.
> ...


Thank you for telling me about your father's experience. That does indeed help me feel better. Especially because after his time in the military is done, he will leave and work in Afghanistan for the private sector for a year there and then hopefully get a job with that same company here in the states after his year with them in Afghanistan is over. I worry like crazy, but he is an adult. He is going to do what he choses with his future. We all know our children are only borrowed. Once they are grown, they control their own destiny. I respect that and pray that he is safe and outlives his parents:smile2:

I understand why some posters want to take matters in their own hands and force a cheater to come clean. I simply can't do that with my daughter and I'm OK with my choices. After all, the consequences of my choices will also be mine. 

If God trully wants my son in law to find out, there is plenty of ways he can find the truth. Just like my son's well being is in God's hands because I can't protect my son; I can not betray my daughter unless I am forced to do so (thank goodness God doesn't work that way). I honestly don't think it will come to that though. If the marriage doesn't survive, I am now certain my grand kids will stay with dad most of the time. DD trully accepts this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Thank you for telling me about your father's experience. That does indeed help me feel better. Especially because after his time in the military is done, he will leave and work in Afghanistan for the private sector for a year there and then hopefully get a job with that same company here in the states after his year with them in Afghanistan is over. I worry like crazy, but he is an adult. He is going to do what he choses with his future. We all know our children are only borrowed. Once they are grown, they control their own destiny. I respect that and pray that he is safe and outlives his parents:smile2:
> 
> I understand why some posters want to take matters in their own hands and force a cheater to come clean. I simply can't do that with my daughter and I'm OK with my choices. After all, the consequences of my choices will also be mine.
> 
> If God trully wants my son in law to find out, there is plenty of ways he can find the truth. Just like my son's well being is in God's hands because I can't protect my son; I can not betray my daughter unless I am forced to do so (thank goodness God doesn't work that way). I honestly don't think it will come to that though. If the marriage doesn't survive, I am now certain my grand kids will stay with dad most of the time. DD trully accepts this.


Are you not concerned that when he finds out and knows that you knew he may make it very hard for you to see the grandchildren? He may even move away if he gets full custody, or marry again and you will loose contact, and you can't blame him. You will not be betraying you daughter, she is the one who betrayed HIM, you will be exposing adultery which in Gods eyes is very very serious thing. 
You can encourage her to tell him first which she so needs to do. Give her a set time and then gently do it yourself. Tell her that its not fair on him to lie and deceive him in this way. 
I feel for the poor guy, betrayed by his wife and also his MIL who presumably he trusts. It will be a double betrayal.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> No, not a child, it was my adult (married with kids) brother. After telling him what a stupid **** he was, I gave him a choice, he had one week to tell his wife he was having an affair (with a follow up call from her) OR I would tell his wife myself.
> 
> He told his wife on his own.


This.

Anything else is bs.

It isn't complicated.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Are you not concerned that when he finds out and knows that you knew he may make it very hard for you to see the grandchildren? He may even move away if he gets full custody, or marry again and you will loose contact, and you can't blame him. You will not be betraying you daughter, she is the one who betrayed HIM, you will be exposing adultery which in Gods eyes is very very serious thing.
> You can encourage her to tell him first which she so needs to do. Give her a set time and then gently do it yourself. Tell her that its not fair on him to lie and deceive him in this way.
> I feel for the poor guy, betrayed by his wife and also his MIL who presumably he trusts. It will be a double betrayal.


Yep.

Given the same set of circumstances, I’d view the entire family as little better than a den of snakes and do everything I could to shield my children from their influence.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I stopped reading after page 10 so sorry if this was already brought up or if I happened to skim past this...

You and your daughter are going to continue this cycle. Lets say she rights the ship and you both rug sweep this away. SIL never finds out, they go on happily for a while. Do you really believe this won't cycle back around again in say another four years? Do you honestly believe your daughter won't put you in the same exact place you are today a few years down the road if she suffers no consequences? I think you know the answer to this. 

She will gladly involve you in all of this because you enable it and help her rug sweep it all away. She fooled you once, shame on her. Her action are fooling you for a second time, is it still shame on her at this point? How many times will she bring you back into this destructive cycle before its shame on YOU for enabling it? 

Thing is, this isn't your first rodeo with this issue. So the advice with that in mind isn't going to be what I truly think you were looking for here. Which is you came here to try and validate your decisions to protect your daughter above doing the right thing. You keep making the same move only to find yourself back in the same situation years later. Do not expect this to stop here either. 

So don't tell, but don't sit back and complain how hard it is when you keep making the same decisions that produce the same results. That is 100% on you. 

For the record, I would tell in your shoes. I wouldn't have told the first time, but fool me twice, shame on me if I expect to do the same things and cant understand why they produce the same results.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Are you not concerned that when he finds out and knows that you knew he may make it very hard for you to see the grandchildren? He may even move away if he gets full custody, or marry again and you will loose contact, and you can't blame him. You will not be betraying you daughter, she is the one who betrayed HIM, you will be exposing adultery which in Gods eyes is very very serious thing.
> You can encourage her to tell him first which she so needs to do. Give her a set time and then gently do it yourself. Tell her that its not fair on him to lie and deceive him in this way.
> I feel for the poor guy, betrayed by his wife and also his MIL who presumably he trusts. It will be a double betrayal.


Quite frankly I am not concerned that he will not let me see them. We will cross that bridge when it happens or if it even happens. He is not the type to bite his nose to spite his face so to speak. He may very well and rightfully so not want anything to do with me, but he would never alienate the children from me. They love me and I them. 


My grand children's well being is now secure because if they divorce, SIL will have primary custody. My daughter accepting that he is indeed the better parent and that the kids will be better cared for with him is huge. She had never accepted this before. If I am forced to do so, I will fight for him to have primary custody and daughter knows this. I can't betray her by exposing the infidelities, but she knows how I feel regarding primary custody of my grand kids. 

I wanted to know if other parents were going through what I was going through, but thankfully not many are forced into this hard place.

@leon2100, who was unfaithful, your son or your daughter? Were there grand children involved? How often do you get to see the grand kids if there are any?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I stopped reading after page 10 so sorry if this was already brought up or if I happened to skim past this...
> 
> You and your daughter are going to continue this cycle. Lets say she rights the ship and you both rug sweep this away. SIL never finds out, they go on happily for a while. *Do you really believe this won't cycle back around again in say another four years? Do you honestly believe your daughter won't put you in the same exact place you are today a few years down the road if she suffers no consequences? * I think you know the answer to this.
> 
> ...



I actually don't think she will repeat the cycle again. People cheat for different reasons, most of the time it's due to pure selfishness. We finally know why my kid has been doing this. She is getting help from both the medical and spiritual fields. For those of you that are Christian, you know that religion does excuse this if the battle isn't necessarily yours. This is the case with my DD. Her battle comes from generations back in the ancestral lineage. It's a spiritual battle and she could not ever let go of those demons so to speak because she inherited them. This was bigger than her. She tried and failed miserably because she needed God to intervene and help her fight this battle and liberate her from the sins of her ancestors. I know it sounds crazy, but as religious as many of us are, we do understand this, regardless of how mind boggling it seems to others.

For those that are not religious, her cheating is directly related to her ailments. They are not excuses to cheat. That was completely wrong and both her therapist and her spiritual guide do know this. I know this as well, but I thought she cheated because she was prone to be this way because she has great aunts and aunts that have engaged in this type of behavior in the past. I thought this was a DNA inherited character flaw. But the reasons why she chose this destructive outlet is important to her in order to finally get rid of this path that only leads to more pain and destruction for her, especially, and for her loved ones too. Cheating is a symptom of something wrong within the person. She is messed up and needs to get fixed to put this in more simple terms. Sadly, her husband, her kids, and even me are collateral damage. SIL can leave her, her children and I can't. Family is family for me. We don't dis-own our blood, plain and simple. We keep trying to help them. If that is enabling to some, well so be it. I don't see it that way and that is why I can't throw my kid under the bus so to speak because most here think that is what I should do. You are not me. We most certainly differ in this respect. I didn't come here asking for your opinion on what to do with my problem. I came here looking for other parents in my shoes, not any Jane, **** or Harry that have not been in my shoes. Blood is thicker than water. It is very different when it's your kid doing the terrible things they are doing to their spouses and children. Not many around here in those shoes. With that said; that is a blessing, and may none of you personally experience going through this. It is not easy and sadly, we have very little control on how to help our grown children wreaking all this havoc on the innocent family members that don't deserve any of it because they didn't cause any of it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't talk about the God aspect without honesty.

She needs to confess to her husband and repent for her to be right with God.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> *Don't talk about the God aspect without honesty.*
> 
> She needs to confess to her husband and repent for her to be right with God.


Where did you get the she needs to confess to her husband in order to be right with God from? It's funny, but that is not what her spiritual guide asked of her. He is going to help her fight this spiritual battle and her husband is not even in that mix. I was like you almost 14 years ago when my X cheated on me. The sad truth is that we all have our very own individual journeys with God and the only true One we need to repent to is God himself for our transgressions and how those choices hurt our relationship with Him, not with our children, spouses, parents, etc. Just like my X didn't have to confess or seek forgiveness from me to be right with God, neither does my DD. Weird I know, but that is how God works. We are all collateral damage in this fallen world and* no superman* is coming to right who wronged us. We need to forgive, let go, dust off, and move on with hopefully the help of God to ease our terrible pain. In this world, no one ever promised us a rose garden so to speak. Not even God promised that because he doesn't reign in this world.

Think back to the gift Jesus came to give us. He promises heaven if we believe that He is the Son of God who came to dwell among us to fulfill the new covenant. All we have to do to receive God's grace for eternity is to believe in the Son. You can be the most horrible human on this Earth, but heaven is still yours. Weird (as in unfair), but true!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> Where did you get the she needs to confess to her husband in order to be right with God from? It's funny, but that is not what her spiritual guide asked of her. He is going to help her fight this spiritual battle and her husband is not even in that mix. I was like you almost 14 years ago when my X cheated on me. The sad truth is that we all have our very own individual journeys with God and the only true One we need to repent to is God himself for our transgressions and how those choices hurt our relationship with Him, not with our children, spouses, parents, etc. Just like my X didn't have to confess or seek forgiveness from me to be right with God, neither does my DD. Weird I know, but that is how God works. We are all collateral damage in this fallen world and* no superman* is coming to right who wronged us. We need to forgive, let go, dust off, and move on with hopefully the help of God to ease our terrible pain. In this world, no one ever promised us a rose garden so to speak. Not even God promised that because he doesn't reign in this world.
> 
> Think back to the gift Jesus came to give us. He promises heaven if we believe that He is the Son of God who came to dwell among us to fulfill the new covenant. All we have to do to receive God's grace for eternity is to believe in the Son. You can be the most horrible human on this Earth, but heaven is still yours. Weird (as in unfair), but true!


Well.

Your understanding of scripture is very off unless you are referring to the god of cheaters and her spiritual guide is, in my opinion, a hack.

My prediction is that your daughter's marriage is absolutely doomed and serious destruction is in the works.

That is my opinion based on my understanding of scripture.

Unless your son in law is a **** wimp.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

One point you made, among many inaccurate points you made, is no need to repent.

Jesus said, more times than I remember, to repent and believe.

Unrepentant folks do not see heaven.

Whoever is talking to you is probably a sexual deviant and substance abuse.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Well.
> 
> Your understanding of scripture is very off unless you are referring to the god of cheaters and her spiritual guide is, in my opinion, a hack.
> 
> ...


I thought this as well when she cheated the second time, and visualized how my grand kids were going to suffer terribly for their mother's extremely poor choices and lack of a moral compass. I don't think that way anymore. I think radical change is indeed coming, but for the better. I also believe in not only her healing, but all of her family and not just the marriage. I think my kid will finally have the marriage her ailments failed to allow her to realize its high value and importance to her over all well being. Her therapist pretty much told her exactly that but through the professional lens. Daughter still thinks she will never be able to find that love and intimacy with her husband again. The therapist pretty much assured her that her relationship with her spouse and her marriage after her healing is done, will be better than ever. I honestly hope my mother hat is right and her therapist is right as well. Life has turned me into a cynic though. With that said, if her marriage does not make it, my grandchildren will not be as doomed as it felt let's say 2 or so months ago. They will live most of the time with the parent that will have their well being up front and center. Their mom will not be that parent. It is all good regardless of what transpires. The truly innocent will be spared so to speak. It's a win/win. :smile2:


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> One point you made, among many inaccurate points you made, is no need to repent.
> 
> *Jesus said, more times than I remember, to repent and believe.
> *
> ...


Exactly! Repent to who? Believe in who?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Wow. This is going to be interesting...blood versus moral ethics versus religion...It's clear once again that religion can be twisted any way to suit whatever (lack of) morals we create and not the other way around.
Having said that, I am not sure what I would do in this situation either.
One thing I would certainly not do is bring religion into this in order to blame the moral struggle on the 'demons', this is for sure.
Surprised you asked the question here: did you not know they will eat you alive??
I hope, for the sake of her family, she gets her ducks in order.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

7


inmyprime said:


> Wow. This is going to be interesting...blood versus moral ethics versus religion...It's clear once again that religion can be twisted any way to suit whatever (lack of) morals we create and not the other way around.
> Having said that, I am not sure what I would do in this situation either.
> One thing I would certainly not do is bring religion into this in order to blame the moral struggle on the 'demons', this is for sure.
> Surprised you asked the question here: did you not know they will eat you alive??
> I hope, for the sake of her family, she gets her ducks in order.


Why of course there is no way you would bring religion into the mix; you are a non-believer...duh.:grin2:


For religious folks God is extremely important. We believe our souls belong to God and therefore the afterlife is very important to us. For believers like me, hell is trully living without God and his love. 

As to twisting religion, that happens all the time. Religion and God are not the same thing. You can't twist God, but boy do we want his intervention when we feel wronged (I'm speaking from personal experience on this tidbit). God does NOT work that way. He will not strike our cheating spouse with lightning because he made choices that hurt us and them terribly. He will not stone or vanish them from the phase of the Earth either. :smile2:

And religion is the one that states that there are sins and then there are mortal sins. To God, sin is sin and we are all unworthy of being in his presence on our own, and much less living among Him. ��


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I actually don't think she will repeat the cycle again. People cheat for different reasons, most of the time it's due to pure selfishness. We finally know why my kid has been doing this. She is getting help from both the medical and spiritual fields. For those of you that are Christian, you know that religion does excuse this if the battle isn't necessarily yours. This is the case with my DD. Her battle comes from generations back in the ancestral lineage. It's a spiritual battle and she could not ever let go of those demons so to speak because she inherited them. This was bigger than her. She tried and failed miserably because she needed God to intervene and help her fight this battle and liberate her from the sins of her ancestors. I know it sounds crazy, but as religious as many of us are, we do understand this, regardless of how mind boggling it seems to others.
> 
> For those that are not religious, her cheating is directly related to her ailments. They are not excuses to cheat. That was completely wrong and both her therapist and her spiritual guide do know this. I know this as well, but I thought she cheated because she was prone to be this way because she has great aunts and aunts that have engaged in this type of behavior in the past. I thought this was a DNA inherited character flaw. But the reasons why she chose this destructive outlet is important to her in order to finally get rid of this path that only leads to more pain and destruction for her, especially, and for her loved ones too. Cheating is a symptom of something wrong within the person. She is messed up and needs to get fixed to put this in more simple terms. Sadly, her husband, her kids, and even me are collateral damage. SIL can leave her, her children and I can't. Family is family for me. We don't dis-own our blood, plain and simple. We keep trying to help them. If that is enabling to some, well so be it. I don't see it that way and that is why I can't throw my kid under the bus so to speak because most here think that is what I should do. You are not me. We most certainly differ in this respect. I didn't come here asking for your opinion on what to do with my problem. I came here looking for other parents in my shoes, not any Jane, **** or Harry that have not been in my shoes. Blood is thicker than water. It is very different when it's your kid doing the terrible things they are doing to their spouses and children. Not many around here in those shoes. With that said; that is a blessing, and may none of you personally experience going through this. It is not easy and sadly, we have very little control on how to help our grown children wreaking all this havoc on the innocent family members that don't deserve any of it because they didn't cause any of it.


I am a Christian but I would never blame my behaviour on what came to me from my ancestors or on demons . There is lots of infidelity back in my family, including my dad and his dad, guess what, neither my brother or I have ever cheated. There is also lots of mental illness on mums side, guess what, neither she or any of her 4 sisters cheated. 
We all make choices, you are excusing your daughter because you can't bear to think that she would willingly act this way.
We always want to think the best of our children, but trying to justify her bad behaviour and keep it secret isn't helpful. You are risking loosing your grandchildren as well when he finds out.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> 7
> 
> Why of course there is no way you would bring religion into the mix; you are a non-believer...duh.:grin2:
> 
> ...


Believer or not believer, I would try to be honest with myself and what is really guiding my thoughts: hypocrisy and selfishness (and self-interest) is a typical human weakness and I don't see why we need to shift blame onto demons or ancestry: only we alone are responsible for our choices and mistakes we make. Blameshifting will only ensure we make them over and over again. If you are not going to change your mind, just accept it as it is and do what you feel is right and don't let people get to you. It seems you asked the question to validate your choices by asking if anyone else was in this situation (and what kind of excuse they used that made sense to them 

Look, this is a really tough one and I don't want to mock it and one probably for philosophy nerds to study: blood and selfishness is thicker than morals sometimes and biology wins over rationality: it's just the fact of our existence. We are not as noble as we proclaim to be. What I might mock a little bit is the 'worm on a frying pan' attitude trying to come up with really terrible excuses for bad choices 

If I was in your shoes, I would try everything to save the family. My daughter is only 7 and I can't quite imagine what I would feel like towards my SIL, if I had one, but imagining her having boyfriends already feels me with anxiety so i don't know if I would care as much for him or his well being, as much as I would care for the well being of my daughter and grand kids.
I don't actually believe in the black & white approach that it is always the right solution to expose an affair or tell the partner about it: I find it too militant and think that it depends and there cannot be rules about it.
For your situation, I don't really know how much of a screw up the daughter is: it is possible that the only way she can learn from her mistakes would be to face them and take responsibility for her actions and it's not going to happen if mummy is always there to cover up for her ****ty choices and pick up the pieces, so in some sense, you might be doing her a disservice by supporting her. You might also be doing a disservice to the grand kids who will eventually grow up and resent her and you for it - it's all possible. But not necessarily a given.
You say she will not do it again but you know probably better than me that this is very unlikely...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I actually don't think she will repeat the cycle again. People cheat for different reasons, most of the time it's due to pure selfishness. We finally know why my kid has been doing this. She is getting help from both the medical and spiritual fields. *For those of you that are Christian, you know that religion does excuse this if the battle isn't necessarily yours.* This is the case with my DD. Her battle comes from generations back in the ancestral lineage. It's a spiritual battle and she could not ever let go of those demons so to speak because she inherited them. This was bigger than her. She tried and failed miserably because she needed God to intervene and help her fight this battle and liberate her from the sins of her ancestors. I know it sounds crazy, but as religious as many of us are, we do understand this, regardless of how mind boggling it seems to others.


This is what drives me nuts about religions: people will twist and turn and do anything, ANYTHING, to justify their actions which often comes from selfishness. Ok this is not only true of religions but it comes through more strongly because on the one hand, the religious often act as if they have the higher moral ground but *we are actually all the same*. Just some of us are supposed to go to hell for trying to be honest with ourselves 
Sorry for rant.



Bibi1031 said:


> For those that are not religious, her cheating is directly related to her ailments. They are not excuses to cheat. That was completely wrong and both her therapist and her spiritual guide do know this. I know this as well, but I thought she cheated because she was prone to be this way because she has great aunts and aunts that have engaged in this type of behavior in the past. I thought this was a DNA inherited character flaw. But the reasons why she chose this destructive outlet is important to her in order to finally get rid of this path that only leads to more pain and destruction for her, especially, and for her loved ones too. Cheating is a symptom of something wrong within the person. She is messed up and needs to get fixed to put this in more simple terms. Sadly, her husband, her kids, and even me are collateral damage. SIL can leave her, her children and I can't. Family is family for me. We don't dis-own our blood, plain and simple. We keep trying to help them. If that is enabling to some, well so be it. I don't see it that way and that is why I can't throw my kid under the bus so to speak because most here think that is what I should do. You are not me. We most certainly differ in this respect. I didn't come here asking for your opinion on what to do with my problem. I came here looking for other parents in my shoes, not any Jane, **** or Harry that have not been in my shoes. Blood is thicker than water. It is very different when it's your kid doing the terrible things they are doing to their spouses and children. Not many around here in those shoes. With that said; that is a blessing, and may none of you personally experience going through this. It is not easy and sadly, we have very little control on how to help our grown children wreaking all this havoc on the innocent family members that don't deserve any of it because they didn't cause any of it.


Yes, i have some sympathy with that (up to a point) because I don't believe in free will (as it is commonly understood). If a murderer killed someone because he had a brain tumour and it made him act irrationally, it would be appropriate to take this into consideration. But where exactly do you want to draw the line.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

leon2100 said:


> We have had similar experience but we stayed out of it. Consider that alternative.


That's not an alternative. It's essentially the same thing that Bibi is doing. Ignorance is not an excuse when you have the knowledge. It makes you an accomplice.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> 7
> 
> Why of course there is no way you would bring religion into the mix; you are a non-believer...duh.:grin2:
> 
> ...


One thing that God does do is to let us face and live with the consequences of our actions which your daughter hasn't done as yet. This enables us to learn hard lessons and hopefully not make that awful choice again. He also expect us to be honest and own up and say sorry for what we have done. Repentance is vital.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I asked my wife what she would do: her first reaction was (after being annoyed that I even asked such a question) that she would probably let the daughter sort it out and that it wouldn't be her responsibility to sort out daughter's life since she's an adult and can make her own decisions (even if they are wrong).
I don't know and am of two minds about it. I don't always agree with the mantra here that exposure is always the best thing to do.

A more extreme (totally hypothetical) example that I had an argument with once with my wife: if you found out your child was a pedophile, would you report them to the police?
I don't know if I could - I guess it depends what he or she actually did. For her, I think it was a no-brainer (if I remember correctly).
Sorry, that's not the same thing but just another conundrum with no straightforward answer for me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Bibi1031 said:


> Where did you get the she needs to confess to her husband in order to be right with God from? It's funny, but that is not what her spiritual guide asked of her. He is going to help her fight this spiritual battle and her husband is not even in that mix. I was like you almost 14 years ago when my X cheated on me.  The sad truth is that we all have our very own individual journeys with God and the only true One we need to repent to is God himself for our transgressions and how those choices hurt our relationship with Him, not with our children, spouses, parents, etc. Just like my X didn't have to confess or seek forgiveness from me to be right with God, neither does my DD. Weird I know, but that is how God works. We are all collateral damage in this fallen world and* no superman* is coming to right who wronged us. We need to forgive, let go, dust off, and move on with hopefully the help of God to ease our terrible pain. In this world, no one ever promised us a rose garden so to speak. Not even God promised that because he doesn't reign in this world.
> 
> Think back to the gift Jesus came to give us. He promises heaven if we believe that He is the Son of God who came to dwell among us to fulfill the new covenant. All we have to do to receive God's grace for eternity is to believe in the Son. You can be the most horrible human on this Earth, but heaven is still yours. Weird (as in unfair), but true!


Nope.

This is moral escapism enabled by a gross misunderstanding of what Christian marriage — or even being Christian — is _supposed_ to mean.

She is accountable to her husband for her actions, and her failure to confess to them doesn’t change that. Everything else is just noise.

Her “spiritual guide” is the worst kind of enabler.

You don’t get to continue misdeeds at every turn and then pull out your “but I believe!” card. That’s not how it works.

You have to repent, and until you’ve both turned away from sin AND willingly submitted before those to whom you ARE accountable, you’ve not done that.

Where belief and behavior don’t align, belief is not enough.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Situational morality and bible verses are up for grabs depending on the sin and the sinner.

It is apparent that OP is dancing as fast as she can - trying to save her daughter and the grand kids.

If OP died tomorrow? What then?
Daughter/cheater left to her own devices and who knows what would happen?

If OP daughter was married to the cheater? I'm sure a very different set of scriptures would be slapped down and the gates of hell would be wide open with all kinds of fire and brimstone rained down upon the cheating husband.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Indeed, a lot of people use the bible and religion to justify their own actions and in a sense take personal responsibility and accountability away from themselves. 

It is kind of a double edge sword in that the same person can come to a cross road and use religion as a guide to make the right choices in once instance. Then come to another cross road and use it to justify poor decisions and remove any accountability from themselves in another instance. A pretty convenient scape goat.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Indeed, a lot of people use the bible and religion to justify their own actions and in a sense take personal responsibility and accountability away from themselves.
> 
> It is kind of a double edge sword in that the same person can come to a cross road and use religion as a guide to make the right choices in once instance. Then come to another cross road and use it to justify poor decisions and remove any accountability from themselves in another instance. A pretty convenient scape goat.



The Great thing about Jesus is he forgives EVERYTHING.

Over and over- just ask ! Over and over! Oops! Killed that person! Forgive me! Oops- I did it again! Killed a kid! Forgive me!



Charlie Manson, Scott Peterson, the woman who drove her kids into a lake and blamed a non- existent black man...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sandcastle said:


> The Great thing about Jesus is he forgives EVERYTHING.
> 
> Over and over- just ask ! Over and over! Oops! Killed that person! Forgive me! Oops- I did it again! Killed a kid! Forgive me!
> 
> ...


He only forgives if we are truly repentant. That incudes going to the one you hurt and telling them what you did and that you are sorry. Its not easy but its vitally important. 

This daughters 'spiritual guide' is enabling her lies and deception. Not good. Deception is so wrong.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I am a Christian but I would never blame my behaviour on what came to me from my ancestors or on demons . There is lots of infidelity back in my family, including my dad and his dad, guess what, neither my brother or I have ever cheated. There is also lots of mental illness on mums side, guess what, neither she or any of her 4 sisters cheated.
> We all make choices, you are excusing your daughter because you can't bear to think that she would willingly act this way.
> We always want to think the best of our children, but trying to justify her bad behaviour and keep it secret isn't helpful. You are risking loosing your grandchildren as well when he finds out.


I blamed my daughter for years, 5 to be exact. That was when she first cheated. I always lived in fear that the other shoe would drop like it did. My decision to not betray my daughter came with a high price: fear and constant unrest! 

I tried to get her back into therapy and on meds since I found out she cheated the first time, but she would get furious at me. Her husbsnd sided with her back then too. I had no control over anything. Praying and living in constsnt fear for my then granddaughter's fate was pretty much all I could do. Things are very different this second time. SIL and daughter are on board with her needing both therspy and medication. She now accepts thst she is indeed bipolar and will need therspy and meds her whole life! The time has finally come for her to find a cure to whst has been erong with her for a long time. 

I didn't cheat on my marriage of 21 years either. In my side of the family, not even the males cheat. It's all from her dad's side. The great aunt and her dad's sisters are like this. And yes, they are very similar to daughter and the X's personalities. Some form of BPD that has gone untreated for a long time more than likely. 

The thing about the sins she inherited and plague her did not come from me. That came from their church! Lights and water faucets in their home would turn on on their own. The alarm would go off on its own too. Some of the grand kids toys would also turn on on thrier own. A priest that deals exclusively with liberations told them this was passed on from one of their past generations. We all thought back then thst it was SIL because the toys, lights, and alarm going off on their own mostly happened to him (well he does work from home and is the one stuck there most of the time, so it makes sense he would see this happen more often). 

When she went to confession this time, another priest told her that the one carrying sins that weren't hers was her, and that the cheating was not going to stop because it was a spiritual battle only divine intervention could help her with. The only reason I mentioned the religious component of her healing was because some of the posters that answered were Christian, and I thought maybe some of these folks would clue me in a bit better on this. I don't know much about this aspect of Christian besed religions and I am indeed quite skeptical about it to be very honest.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Nope.
> 
> This is moral escapism enabled by a gross misunderstanding of what Christian marriage — or even being Christian — is _supposed_ to mean.
> 
> ...


I agree but where does it leave her mother? (Bibi). Whose responsibility is it to 'put things right', daughter's or mother's? I believe her question was: what you'd do in her situation, not what her daughter should do. 

I am willing to bet A LOT of money that the majority of people here would *not* do as they preach (put truth above family = expose their daughter's affairs to SIL). The only person on this thread who was in a similar situation stayed out of it. For anyone else, this is just a hypothetical situation and it's hypocrisy at its best (for either sides).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> He only forgives if we are truly repentant. That incudes going to the one you hurt and telling them what you did and that you are sorry. Its not easy but its vitally important.
> 
> This daughters 'spiritual guide' is enabling her lies and deception. Not good. Deception is so wrong.


But isn't it obvious that you can be *truly repentant* in one moment, and still repeat the crime sometime in the future. Who decides what is truly repentant? If anything and everything can be forgiven, it means nothing. Unfortunately people cannot live in a world where sins are not forgiven so they constructed a figure who takes on and forgives all their ****. The world doesn't work this way: you cannot stand before a judge, after murdering a family, and swear and swear that you are 'truly repentant'. Even if you feel truly repentant (whatever this means), you will still serve the time. How many more crimes would be committed do you think if that avenue in the justice system was open?
None of it makes any sense to be. But I appreciate it makes other people feel better.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> I blamed my daughter for years, 5 to be exact. That was when she first cheated. I always lived in fear that the other shoe would drop like it did. My decision to not *betray my daughter *came with a high price: fear and constant unrest!
> 
> I tried to get her back into therapy and on meds since I found out she cheated the first time, but she would get furious at me. Her husbsnd sided with her back then too. I had no control over anything. Praying and living in constsnt fear for my then granddaughter's fate was pretty much all I could do. Things are very different this second time. SIL and daughter are on board with her needing both therspy and medication. She now accepts thst she is indeed bipolar and will need therspy and meds her whole life! The time has finally come for her to find a cure to whst has been erong with her for a long time.
> 
> ...


The truth is never a betrayal.

As to the rest of this...yeah, I got nothin'


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I blamed my daughter for years, 5 to be exact. That was when she first cheated. I always lived in fear that the other shoe would drop like it did. My decision to not betray my daughter came with a high price: fear and constant unrest!
> 
> I tried to get her back into therapy and on meds since I found out she cheated the first time, but she would get furious at me. Her husbsnd sided with her back then too. I had no control over anything. Praying and living in constsnt fear for my then granddaughter's fate was pretty much all I could do. Things are very different this second time. SIL and daughter are on board with her needing both therspy and medication. She now accepts thst she is indeed bipolar and will need therspy and meds her whole life! The time has finally come for her to find a cure to whst has been erong with her for a long time.
> 
> ...


Oh come on. Cheating with a gym guy is not a 'disease' and is not 'hereditary'. Some behavioural tendencies can be partly inherited. Ironically, you will have more success pushing this angle here with science, not with Christianity: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201509/what-behaviors-do-we-inherit-genes
I think the bible is pretty clear about what happens to cheaters...
https://www.openbible.info/topics/cheating

The first quote: James 4:17 ESV / 1,088 helpful votes	

"So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."

Seems to implicate you. Though it's 'him' not 'her' so you might be ok...


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sandcastle said:


> Situational morality and bible verses are up for grabs depending on the sin and the sinner.
> 
> It is apparent that OP is dancing as fast as she can - trying to save her daughter and the grand kids.
> 
> ...


:lol::lol::lol:

This is definitely just not one bit correct. I just explained that God does not fight who wronged us for us. We make choices and we live with the consequences of our choices. The religious component is one I didn't advise to DD or SIL. I firmly believe that treating her bipolar disorder with therapy and medication is the way to healing her regardless of whether the marriage survives or not. Everything will be better than before because the grand kids will live mostly with dad. That is why I was silent about her transgressions. I wanted my grand kids to be tsken care of most of the time by the better parent. That is hsppening now if divorce is in the near future. That was worth the constant fear and worry I had to endure for kerping this awful secret.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> He only forgives if we are truly repentant. That incudes going to the one you hurt and telling them what you did and that you are sorry. Its not easy but its vitally important.
> 
> This daughters 'spiritual guide' is enabling her lies and deception. Not good. Deception is so wrong.


I totally agree about true repentance because God knows our hearts, not just what our mouths spurt out. Lip service is useless to God. 

You get no arguement from me that deception is wrong; the choice to keep daughter's secret has not been easy for me and I have paid for it and may pay for it in the near future too. It has been worth it though. DD is getting help. SIL will either have the family he deserves now or will get primary custody of the kids now and a chance to have a partner that can keep her loyalty and vows if they marry. DD's journey to full recovery and healing will take years. I will be with her every step of the way no matter how long it takes. 

My poor girl has been messed up since she was about 4 years old. It is about time she knows what being emotionally healthy and stable feels like. As a mother that hurts more than any words can express.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> That's not an alternative. It's essentially the same thing that Bibi is doing. Ignorance is not an excuse when you have the knowledge.* It makes you an accomplice.*


I have to disagree with the bold statement above. Sadly, breaking your vows and cheating is not a crime that is punishable by any law now a days. The courts don't deal with this messy subject because we wouldn't have cells available for people that commit other crimes.:smile2:

God is not in this mix either.... That is why I stated earlier that there is no superman that comes to the rescue when you are wronged and to make this unfairness right. No man (court system) no God either. You are on your own pretty much...sigh

With that said, that does NOT make anyone an accomplice because the crime ain't punishable by anyone! :grin2: There are natural consequences though. I am proof to that. My silence came with a price. 



inmyprime said:


> * But isn't it obvious that you can be truly repentant in one moment, and still repeat the crime sometime in the future.* *Who decides what is truly repentant? *If anything and everything can be forgiven, it means nothing. Unfortunately people cannot live in a world where sins are not forgiven so they constructed a figure who takes on and forgives all their ****. The world doesn't work this way: you cannot stand before a judge, after murdering a family, and swear and swear that you are 'truly repentant'. Even if you feel truly repentant (whatever this means), you will still serve the time. How many more crimes would be committed do you think if that avenue in the justice system was open?
> None of it makes any sense to be. But I appreciate it makes other people feel better.


This quote above has so much that I feel it needs to be broken down a bit and I will use my daughter's cheating and what transpired the first time and now as well. I know for a fact my daughter was truly repentant and was forgiven by God as she confessed and was absolved of that sin. Confirmation came through a priest. The priest back then didn't tell her God could not forgive her sin and that she needed to confess to her spouse what she did in order to be right by God. So those of you that throw God out there in order for others to sway your way about disclosing it all to the betrayed partner are just trying to push your own agenda using God's name in vain (if that shoe fits, shame on YOU!). She did what her faith has taught her. She confessed her sin, was truly repentant, walked away from AP, left her job, and went completely dark/cold turkey so to speak. She did everything she needed to do to not stray except get help for her bipolar disorder. I could not get her to see this then. So here we are 3 years later after having her second kid. I knew the other shoe would drop. My gut screamed this to me and that is why I wanted her to seek professional help really bad. I had to wait for this to happen though.

So she does this a second time. I am still silent and I wait for her to find the help she needs, but now one of my worst fears is no more. My grand kids will be OK regardless of mom's lack of morals or the reasons as to why she is this way. I know now that my DD's problem is going to take a long time to heal. I also know that SIL will get the partner he deserves even if it may not be my DD. The truth may or may not come out as we are not on that crossroad yet. 

You. @inmyprime, mentioned that a person may fail to keep from committing the same bad choice again even if they were truly repentant. Well, DD did this with her second time cheating. Once again she confessed her sin to a priest. Not the same one as last time. Different priest, different church, but the same religious denomination. This priest told her what the priest that made a liberation at her home told her almost a year earlier. This that is going on is a spiritual battle. It has nothing to do with her not wanting to stop, it's that she can't on her own (sound familiar, it does to me. Reminds me of addiction and how it is cured). The therapist also told her this but it was due to her illness as the reason why she couldn't do this alone and without professional help. I agree with you @inmyprime, bringing in the religious component into this only brought out the holier than thow people into the mix. They are no help as they have less insight than a non believer like you. I thought this might happen, but I thought I at least would get some more enlightened religious folks in this mix. I most certainly didn't. I have learned more from you than any folks that are Christian like me. How terribly sad indeed. I thank you for your honesty and sympathy inmyprime. You realize that this world is not all that black and white like some people here argue so dang much. It is not easy to betray your own son or daughter and the only other person that has experienced that decided what your own wife decided she would do. She would leave that responsibility to her adult child. I pretty much did that too with my silence of her betrayal.

So now both religion and science state that there was no way to extricate herself from this pattern of behavior without professional help. The therapist absolved her of fault and, once again, so did the church. Yet here we have a bunch of strangers that beg to differ because they know more than priests and a professional psychiatrist that knows daughter for over 8 years now and has treated her the first 3 of those years and has been seeing her in the last 8 weeks. Well guess what guys, God forgives her this second time too. When will he not? That is very simple. When her repentance is not genuine in His eyes; not yours, not mine, not her husband's either!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I have learned more from you than any folks that are Christian like me. *How terribly sad indeed.*


Haha, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry about this way of phrasing but I take any compliment I can get :wink2:

I think on balance, the best you can do for your daughter is give her best possible advice and be a good example. But at the end of the day, you can't make her _think_ or _be_ someone she is not or always be the one to sort out her mess: it's tough but important for a parent to acknowledge this limitation because in a way it is also liberating (that there's only so much we can do). 

I believe that even with younger children, we have much less of an influence than we think we have on how they will turn out. Although they obviously still do pick up a lot from the parents.

You sound like a very 'hands on' mother (with the best of intentions I am sure): kids sometimes rebel more if they don't get the chance to sort out their own messes they created; they might not really 'grow up' as a result.

And take it easy with the priests...They first of all don't know any more than you do and also you have to remember that it's not really you or your daughter who are so much the victims in this instance. Focus your energy more on helping her getting her life together. The only way she can learn not to repeat a mistake is not through a blessing from a priest but if she fully understands the grave consequences of her actions. If she knows you will always be there to pick up the pieces for her, she will always remain a slow learner...


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