# Should I take her back?



## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

Sorry for the long post. I am a wreck right now and really need some guidance.

When my girlfriend and I first started dating almost 4 years ago, we were happier than ever. We wouldn't ever go a day without each other. We began to fall in love with each other, and it was the most magical time of my life. After the first year or so, things began to slow down. Now, closing in on the third year of dating, we almost constantly fight.

I discovered something horrific yesterday, and it turned my world upside down.

I found emails between her and someone else when she forgot to log out of her email account. I only got a chance to read some of the titles before she realized what had happened (she was laying next to me) and snatched my laptop away. 
One title of an email (and there were multiple ones) was "Hey sexy". I freaked out and asked her what the hell it was I just saw. She admitted the following details:

1. She met a guy on craigslist four days ago, who shared a particular fantasy with her that I didn't quite share
2. They exchanged dirty messages with each other
3. She planned on meeting up with the guy to have sex. She was the the one trying to meet with him.

She says she did it because she was unfulfilled sexually (because of her fantasy I was uncomfortably taking part in). She said she loves me and never meant to hurt me. 

She felt bad for asking me to fulfill her fantasy over and over again, and that's why she felt compelled to cheat. She even said she "hoped it would make us better." She added that when she's desperate, she often thinks of doing irresponsible things, but almost always stop before she carries on with them. She told me there was a 65% chance she would change her mind before she had sex with the other guy, that she would realize the mistake she was making before it was too late.

I am severely hurt by what I found out. She feels extremely guilty for hurting me as much as she did, and wishes she had never responded to that craigslist ad. 

But I'm lost and can't think straight now. Do I stay with and try to work things out with a girl that I truly love and who truly loves me back but almost cheated on me? 

Or should I not give her a second chance and move on? ANY help or advice given is appreciated... I just don't know what to do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She is picking up men on craig's list... this might not be the first time. Get checked for STD's.

YOu have to really think about this. Cheaters always say that they are sorry, they love you, this is the only time, nothing happened, etc etc. It's like they are all reading the same script.



Fuze_Man said:


> She added that when she's desperate, she often thinks of doing irresponsible things, but almost always stop before she carries on with them. She told me there was a 65% chance she would change her mind before she had sex with the other guy, that she would realize the mistake she was making before it was too late..


Right there she told you that she’s done this before… she does not always stop. 

My take is that you need to end this relationship. She has a problem... it's often called a sexual addiction. People who do this do it over and over. It's a compulsion. Craigslist caters to people with these compulsions for quickie hookups.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Dude, get out now.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Get out and move on. This will only get worse.

Right now, you see the tip of the iceberg...but below the surface, this issue is huge.

Is it worth it? Get out now...it's really not something you want to tie yourself to for the rest of your life...or the rest of your relationship which won't be too long judging by her behavior.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Now, closing in on the third year of dating, we *almost constantly fight*.


Not a good sign of a healthy relationship. What were the fights about?



> Do I stay with and try to work things out with a girl that I truly love and who truly loves me back but almost cheated on me? Or should I not give her a second chance and move on?


Almost cheated? She did cheat on you. She established a relationship with another man via the internet (EA - emotional affair) and was ready to turn it into a PA (physical affair) if it wasn't for you discovering it on time.

It is up to you to decide what you want to do. Consider stop putting pressure on yourself for choosing one over the other until you can make peace with your final decision.

In the mean time:

1. Is she willing to be totally transparent with you where she hides nothing from you and gives you her passwords to her phone, email, social networking sites, etc.? 

2. Is she willing to go to IC (individual counseling) to address and resolve her issues that brought her to cheat on you.

3. Is she willing to go to relationship counseling to help resolve the constant fighting?

How she embraces these 3 will tell you a lot about the viability of your relationship.

Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Check her email immediately. She might have deleted them by now. No going back until see the mails.

And you might want to re-evaluate your relationship. You don't want to be married to someone who hooks up with men from Craiglist when in a relationship. That's incredibly stupid and dangerous


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You say the 2 of you are constantly fighting

You have been together for 4 yrs., but haven't married

What kind of kinky sex does she want, that you are uncomfortable with

She is looking for other guys, and no matter what she says, and lies to you about---bottom line is, she took another man in preferance to you

You can do the math----for whatever was the actual period of time she was in her EA, about to turn PA----YOU WERE #2

YOUR FUTURE WITH THIS WOMAN DON'T LOOK VERY POSITIVE


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Run Forrest run


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## Cogo123 (Jan 5, 2012)

I know my husband well enough to know if he had a fantasy I didn't want to fulfill he would respect my wishes and keep it just that ........a fantasy. 
We all wonder what it would be like to live it out but if she truly loved you she wouldn't be thinking of just herself but would understand it is something you are not comfortable with and leave it at that.
Not to mention all the arguments then you are having trust issues?
I would suggest you get out while you can and find someone who treats you as you should be treated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Or should I not give her a second chance and move on? ANY help or advice given is appreciated... I just don't know what to do.


As bad as this is, you have been given a preview of the future if you stay with this woman. She has a particular fetish that you can't fulfill. Then years down the road, after having invested your life with her, having children, etc, next thing you know, you end up like Tover26. 

Better that you move on and find another woman who you are sexually compatible with. As you've found out, if she's not getting that fetish from you, she will get it from someone else, and being married won't stop her at all.

Like aug said: Run Forrest run!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Dump her immediately and do not go back.

First, think about how easily she pulled it off - the post, the right conversation to set it up, the plan. 

She's likely done it before. This is just the first time you caught her.

The "I've got a fantasy" and an excuse. What if her fantasy is for her to get knocked up by a stranger and have you raise someone else's bastard kid?

What if her fantasy is to get HIV so she can be a black widow and infect other men?

By point is the bottom line is that she set out to cheat, she set it up, she was going to cheat, and she has likely done it before, and will do it again.

Oh, and how about the future - if you did stay with her - if she ever asked you for anything - would you have to say YES or she would go out and cheat then too?

Honestly, this gf is an entitled selfish biotch who was going to willing put your health at real risk behind your back to satisfy her particular "fantasy". Her fetish is more important to her than your trust, your health, and your love.

you'd be an idiot to believe her lies, and to stay with her.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Fuze_Man said:


> She added that when she's desperate, she often thinks of doing irresponsible things, but *almost* always stop before she carries on with them.


Am I the only one that caught that?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You would have to be a total masochist to stay with her. She will give you an STD in time. Going on Craig's list? She has no respect for you or your relationship whatsoever. If you don't respect yourself then who will? She is absolutely toxic to you. I would not believe that this is her first time. Get checked for STD's and move on.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MrK said:


> Am I the only one that caught that?


I missed that. Instead of always, it's "almost" always, implying that she has already crossed the line into PAs.

Run Fuze_Man, run!

Oh, and run by the doctor and have yourself checked out for STDs while you're running. Don't even think of knocking her up.


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm sorry, I didn't word that phrase right. I wasn't talking about "almost always" not cheating, but "almost always" stops thoughts about other things: suicide, running away, etc.

If it makes any difference, she feels EXTREMELY remorseful about the whole episode. A lot of you will probably say "no she's remorseful she got caught," but I know from her reactions and the way she treated me later on when we were talking that she wishes she had never done anything like this.

She felt she had to do this out of desperation; but I know that's no excuse for anything, like lordmayem said. We both really want this to work out, and through all the fighting and bickering we've had, she's a really sweet girl. I think she just hit a low in her life, and I really want to believe that we can still have a future together despite this.

I know many people who stay together after cheating, and they seem to be okay, sometimes great.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You are going to get burned. And that is not because you are getting back together but how you handled the whole issue


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You are going to get burned. And that is not because you are getting back together but how you handled the whole issue


Can I ask how I handled it incorrectly, and how I should have handled it?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Actually it is difficult to address this if you will not tell us what her fantasy is?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Can I ask how I handled it incorrectly, and how I should have handled it?


You're engaging in rug sweeping.

That's where she gets caught - acts sorry etc, promises not to do it again, and you after the initial anger - say "Ok, sweetie, let's just put this behind us and forget about it."

This avoids actually dealing with the situation and what led up to her planning on cheating. It also let's her off without your getting to the bottom of there possibly being more times and more lies.

Think about how easily and quickly she found a guy to have sex with, and how she was able to emotionally go there. This wasn't a moment out of control - this was a planned out meditated action.

If you rug sweep, the only thing that has changed is that she got caught once. What else changed? Other than the embarrassment what actual consequence has she suffered? btw - consequence does not mean punishment necessarily.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks shaggy for typing it out. 

OP, have you checked all her mails immediately.
Do you think she deleted them? 
Check the Sent folder too. 
Is she giving you the whole picture ?(Is this her first time? I would believe not)


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You are in a commited relationship living together. There is no reason that either one of you have secrets from each other. You should both know each others passwords to emails, facebook, phones etc.

Secondly, you have been going together this long, do you not know yet if you are going to get married? Thats a long time, if you haven't figured it out yet you should both be out in the world trying to find someone you love enough to marry.

You also do not say what she wants to do that you are unwilling to do. Since this is an annonymous forum it might be a good idea to get other opinions. There is also a sex in marriage forum here. Kinda seems like that may be a deal breaker in itself.


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

I wasn't "rug sweeping" by any means. I've actually tried to break up with her two or three times now, but can't actually do it. I'm not one to make quick decisions like that. I need to think about it before I am certain.

That's why I told her I told her I needed space away from her, to gather my thoughts and think about there even being a possibility of a future together.

To clarify, we DO NOT live with each other.

Regarding how quickly she found someone to have sex with her, she had been giving me signs and actually told me she was having "straying thoughts" several months ago. I tried to do everything I could, and tried playing her fantasy several times (basically a daddy dom), but never quite felt comfortable with it.

I had an opportunity to see her email, but chose not to. I didn't think it really mattered; she had already told me all I needed to know. All I would have seen were very explicit sexual messages between the two, and I didn't need to know exactly what was being said. It would've hurt me more and made recovery even more difficult, with nothing to gain in return.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Being unfulfilled sexually is one thing but a girl willing to cheat because she can't get you to do that understandably bizarre fantasy should be a huge red flag.


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

She also offered to pay all the fees for counseling; not sure if that makes a difference, but she seems to be trying to make things better, at her expense.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She needs counselling for herself, not you. She needs to address this fantasy issue.


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## sinkingfeeling (May 20, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> She also offered to pay all the fees for counseling; not sure if that makes a difference, but she seems to be trying to make things better, at her expense.


I get it totally. A fetish is an addiction (not sure why people were so keen to prise out of you what exactly it wad as that's largely irrelevant unless illegal) and it doesn't just go away because they will it too. I believe counselling with specific sex addiction focus is the only way and still no guarantees. People with sex addictions want normal relationships and family life but just like any other addiction, their fantasy eats away at them until they've fed it again. 

I know exactly how you feel because my husband has a similar problem and led to me getting an email from someone last year saying she'd been ******* him for months. He says she's lying and nothing actually happened but subsequently through counselling and talking about it, it's not about me or unhappiness with the marriage but about him. I don't know where we'll end up as we have a daughter but if I were you and not even living together, I'd seriously think twice unless she commits to intense therapy that she wants to do for her and not for you. Even then, as we know addicts relapse sometimes so if you do try to make a go of it together, this will never completely leave you. 

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Regarding how quickly she found someone to have sex with her, she had been giving me signs and actually told me she was having "straying thoughts" several months ago. I tried to do everything I could, and tried playing her fantasy several times (*basically a daddy dom*), but never quite felt comfortable with it.
> 
> I had an opportunity to see her email, but chose not to. I didn't think it really mattered; she had already told me all I needed to know. All I would have seen were very explicit sexual messages between the two, and I didn't need to know exactly what was being said. It would've hurt me more and made recovery even more difficult, with nothing to gain in return.



And yet you are the opposite of her fantasy?

Interesting to see if what she wants and what she settled for are enough to keep her contented within the marriage?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> It would've hurt me more and made recovery even more difficult, with nothing to gain in return.


You need not make recover for recovery' sake. If you two have different needs in life(monogamous vs poly) then you need to know. Knowing the whole truth will give you a better understanding of the situation and whether a recovery is possible or not. If you try to ignore the issues , you will end up hurting each other. Sometimes the best thing is breaking up even if it hurts in the short term. Right now she is caught in the guilt of the affair and hurting you and will say what you want her to say. But what she wants, will stay with her. Maybe she will do it again 5 years down the road or maybe she will do it in 2 months. But you are jumping on R before even identifying issues.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> She also offered to pay all the fees for counseling; not sure if that makes a difference, but she seems to be trying to make things better, at her expense.


Fuze man please go read this thread. Don't let the title throw you off. Tover is going thrugh just what you might look forward to. If you can, let your girlfriend read it to let her see where this can lead. Don't let her know you are posting, keep that secret.

In addition, she did not just come up with this on her own. She has no doubt been involved with this lifestyle for sometime. She has at least been checking this out on the internet. As quickly as she found someone on craigslist , you have to figure she has done it before. That is why you need to check her emails,facebook texrs etc. If you don't check, you have no idea what you are up against. She has already shown she will cheat. That means you cannot believe anything she says. 

Good luck http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33914-lesbian-bi-serial-oh-my.html


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Feel for you bud. Can tell by your words that you are hoping this can be fixed. 
Not much more else to say as all the prior responses point it out pretty clear. Fact that she met a guy on craigs list and was setting up a meet to have a PA, her having straying thoughts for months and you trying to break up with her a few times - sounds like it is time to bring this to an end.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

fuze, you dodged a bullet... not married,no kids,no house together. just tell her thanks but no thanks,and head on your merry way.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

You should consider whether you can live with her fullfilling her fantasies with other men in the future or not, maybe being open about it - those desires are strong and if you can't fullfill them - she _will_ go elsewhere, i think.

It's not about her loving you or not - could you live with it or not? How about it if you are a 110% certain, that she doesn't love anyone in the whole world but you?

You could measure your future success by her willingness to abandon her desires/fetish out of love for you, but could you accept her fullfilling her fantasy out of love for her?

This is really not advice for you, i guess, but just to put another perspective on things.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuze,

Any guy she'd meet up with to play her daddy dom isn't going to be a casual encounter. It's going to be someeone who is going to get off controlling her and owning her. That isn't a quickie - that's him taking over.

Think about that happy thought - you're her BF , but some creeper on craigslist is owning her and using her.

ewww.

That's not a judgement on the D/s stuff. I have no problem with folks who like to to that. My problem is 100% her giving that to another guy behind your back.


Stop analyzing what you should do - what advice would you give your little brother seeing a situation like yours? 

the problem with constant analysis etc, is that you can effectively talk yourself into anything. Heck, listen to Glenn Beck enough and he starts to actually sound sane. 

In these situations listen to your gut. It's there to guide you on matters like this and it's usually dead on.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

Fuze_Man told me I should make an account or at least read the things people were saying. I originally said no, because I think he needs a private place to talk and say things he might not want me to hear. On the phone earlier, he had me read some things, and I think he wants to have more of a conversation than just talking to people to cope, so I guess who else can add more to the conversation than the cheating girlfriend?

Hope I don't get attacked or flamed here, but I'm honestly expecting it. No one on the internet is nice, and no one likes cheaters. It would be preferable if you didn't, but oh well.

First of all, I think he's being way too kind to me. I'm thankful he talks well about me even after this, but I hope when (or if) we go to a counselor he talks about the bad, too- it all needs to be dealt with. Maybe he was trying to avoid misconceptions? It seems there is a lot here.

I've never done this before. I HIGHLY doubt I have a sex addiction. He is the ONLY one in the whole wide world I love. I'm sorry for a whole hell of a lot more than just getting caught. I DO need counseling, and I'm getting it now. I know this is going to lead to a lot of awesome judgements (since people seem to think anyone with a diagnosis is insanely nuts that you should never get involved with), but I do have some issues. Not nasty ones, but they affect my life.

There were relationship problems before and we were struggling. I don't want to defend what I did or put blame on Fuze, but I have read multiple places that cheating is often caused by problems in the relationship. Neither of us are ignorant about relationships, how they work, effective communication, dealing with anger, etc. But we needed more help than that. We worked on stuff and had some progress but we needed help. But who's going to pay for a counselor? He's trying to save his money and I make very little. Now money doesn't seem so big of an issue, but it was a while ago. I'm hoping we can work through this and also work through the previous issues.

And to clarify about the fantasies: They weren't apparent before I met Fuze. I never trusted anyone enough to let them have any sort of control... So after it came out, I guess it went crazy. It would take forever to explain it, but this is not a long-standing sickness. It might go away, it might not. The reasons I sought cheating were a lot more than I can really explain.

So right now, I'm trying to be as transparent as possible. If he has any questions or needs to tell me anything, he can do so at anytime. I'm trying to deal with my own emotions on my own time, so I can help him with his when he chooses to talk to me. I'm also trying to give him space when he needs it. We're really close, so it's hard to do that. I am going to pay for the first counseling intake session (probably the biggest cost) and perhaps the second. After that, I'd like to split the cost. It's 4 years of problems in the making that we both contributed to that we need to work through. My cheating is my issue- I'm trying to take responsibility for that, too. I'm going to talk to my own counselor... Also, trying to prepare myself to be able to stomach a break up. That's the hardest thing. I can sit here and listen to all the hurtful, degrading things he can ever think to say, and that's OK. But breaking up hurts way too much.

Interested in what you guys might have to say, or questions you might have. I don't know if I'll come back on here, but if Fuze wants me to, I will and talk to you guys, too.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There are people here who have been horribly hurt be their spouses cheating. So if you get flamed be understanding.

So you are saying you have never cheated before this one instance. How did you come to be involved in the dom,slave thing?
How long?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Fuze_Man told me I should make an account or at least read the things people were saying. I originally said no, because I think he needs a private place to talk and say things he might not want me to hear. On the phone earlier, he had me read some things, and I think he wants to have more of a conversation than just talking to people to cope, so I guess who else can add more to the conversation than the cheating girlfriend?
> 
> Hope I don't get attacked or flamed here, but I'm honestly expecting it. No one on the internet is nice, and no one likes cheaters. It would be preferable if you didn't, but oh well.
> 
> ...



I suppose you're his girlfriend that he wrote about, correct?

He does come across as nice and caring person. That's probably why he's having a hard time letting you go.

But for his own sake he must. Your fantasy and inner desire do not match his personality.

Your impluse has gotten a strong hold of you, and now that it has taken hold, will require a strong effort on your part to control. That effort is wearing. You do not appear to have develop a strong moral or boundary yet to help you in your effort.

Counseling may help, but life experience and lessons learnt when young are better.

Anyways, you have some work ahead of you. As for your boyfriend, he needs to see if he wants to spend the future years being your rescuer when he can just move on since he has no kids or marriage with you now.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

chapparal said:


> There are people here who have been horribly hurt be their spouses cheating. So if you get flamed be understanding.
> 
> So you are saying you have never cheated before this one instance. How did you come to be involved in the dom,slave thing?
> How long?


Yes, I understand this. That is why I didn't really expect NOT to be flamed.

For some reason, a lot of things in my head are really fuzzy, but I'll try to remember as best as I can and give you some background information on this as well:

Fuze and I started out having a great sex life. Both never having very explorative partners before, we wanted to explore everything, and we did a lot, found out what we liked/didn't like, etc. Then it started to get a bit stale after some lifestyle changes that made it harder to a time/place for sex. I suggested roleplay. He wasn't so enthused, since he really isn't much for the whole creative side of sex. I also asked if he'd be cool trying out being a submissive while I was the dom. That idea didn't fly at the time. He didn't have many fantasies that he wanted to act out in roleplaly. I had a lot, but a lot of them I was scared to ask about.

My Daddy fantasy stuck out quite a bit and I was most comfortable talking about it, and I wanted to try it really bad. It was first just kind of an incest thing, not so much D/s. We started acting that out a little. 5 minutes of just messing around with it here and there. Then I started noticing more and more it was actually a power exchange fantasy. I like being tied up and spanked and all that comes with being dominated, but (to make things clear), I'm not masochistic whatsoever, nor do I enjoy humiliation.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How did you make the leap to go on craigs list and hook up with a total stranger. Another girl , someone wrote here the other day, did that and ended up tied down with needled stuck in her breasts. 

Have you read Tover26's thread? His wife started out just curious.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

Honestly, I thought about that. I thought about how I'd make it safer, too. I thought a lot without really thinking enough, honestly... And I thought about that possibility. I had some other thoughts too grimm to disclose.

And that was just way over my head. I suppose I am having the same thoughts about this woman that every other poster has had about me- "Get your poor dumbass out. Isn't it obvious she was a nut case?" I don't think that was curiousity- that was an illness. Did she ever discuss any of this with her partner? I can't make any for-sure assertions, but me and that woman are in two different boats. I told my partner about all the fantasies, sexual problems, dissatisfaction, etc. before I even considered another option. And I'm not a serial cheater. And I don't have sexy time with my girlfriends.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

And I forgot to add that it was a process that took around a year. First thoughts of cheating came into my head, and they scared me. I told him about it- not in a "You better make me feel happy cuz I'm thinking about cheating on you" kind of way but a "This is really scaring me, and I don't know what to do. Can you please help me find a solution?" Then the thoughts came off and on, getting more and more bearable and seeming more and more feasible. Then a night or two before I went on Craigslist, we were talking for some reason about going online. He asked if I went on dating sites, and I said "Uh, no... Why would I do that?" (He's kind of insecure- me, too.) Then I added "But I do browse personals ads for entertainment," and he said "That's fine, cuz I do that, too." Then he made me promise not to go on dating sites. I didn't want to break that promise, so I went on Craigslist. I don't know anyone IRL that would be interested in this, and I guess I wanted there to be as little personal connection as possible. I wanted to have a physical affair- not fall in love with someone else.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Hi Sleepless...

A couple of things you need to understand: Nothing in a relationship make cheating ok. Nothing that ever goes on in a relationship causes cheating to be ok. The decision to cheat is always, exclusively owned by the cheater.

any attempt to push it off onto the BS is just blame shift. 

Yes, they own the problems in the relationship along with you. They own the responsibility to work on it.

But the cheater alone owns the cheating. 

Now - you call him insecure for asking if you'd gone on dating sites. That's not insecurity that's his gut warning him that you can't be trust. And it was 100% on - you couldn't be trusted. So don't trivialize him by dismissing his concerns - which turned out to be completely valid - as him being insecure.

So I hear you explaining why you wanted to do it. I hear you explaining what led you to be motivated to do it.

I don't hear you owning it.

I don't hear you saying it was the worst, dumbest, most selfish decision you've ever made. 

I don't hear remorse. Instead I head you being defiant and explaining why you chose to do what you did.

And that is huge because it means that given the opportunity again - you will see it as a valid set of options to choose from again.

See the big problem here?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sleepless,

Shaggy is right. In addition to that there is nothing wrong with fantasies. Especially when you have a loving, willing partner.

But going outside of the relationship just for the "physical" is just plain wrong. It is cheating.

Also, do you know how many wackos are on Craigslist. 

Can you add danger to your fantasy? You will certainly find it sooner or later.

Good Luck,

HM64


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Fuze_Man told me I should make an account or at least read the things people were saying. I originally said no, because I think he needs a private place to talk and say things he might not want me to hear.
> 
> I don't want to defend what I did or put blame on Fuze, but I have read multiple places that cheating is often caused by problems in the relationship. Neither of us are ignorant about relationships, how they work, effective communication, dealing with anger, etc.
> 
> The reasons I sought cheating were a lot more than I can really explain.


Fuze_Man, in one of your posts, you note that you know lots of people who have stayed with a straying partner and done okay, some even great.

So it sounds to me like taking her back has never been a question, since you haven't actually separated yourself from her. 

In reading her posts, its clear to me that she realizes that her cheating was caused by relationship problems, which no other cheater has ever claimed! Plus, she is a complex, mysterious person, with depths so hidden that her reasons for cheating can't actually be explained. And she knows quite a bit about relationships, like how they work, how to effectively communicate with men on Craigslist, and dealing with your anger when you find out about her effective communication.

You want to keep her. She wants you to keep her. I think you should keep her. Here's hoping that counseling helps ,too.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm still missing the why, why she wanted to cheat with a stranger. She role playing and she wanted to do things her boyfriend found distasteful so she hooks up with a stranger. I mean, I know people do this, but not people that keep up with what is going on in the world today. 

Perverts use craigs list to find victims every day. Babysitters are not even safe there. I am amazed at this.

Sleepless I am not sure you are a survivor.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

I've owned it, and I feel guilty. I just wanted to clarify some things- I wasn't making excuses. I just thought it was something you should know that it's not one of those stupid skank that doesn't love you kind of cheating. It's a desperate person that made a really dumb decision.

I know what I did. Have you ever told someone you cheated on them before? Have you seen their reaction? You know right away what you did! And you know that the indescribeable amount of pain that the person you love is feeling is caused by YOU. Any decent human being would feel terrible and I do.

How on earth did you get that I thought this was OK? I said there might have been a cause. I'm not justifying it, I'm just explaining why it happened. Sure, there's a reason behind why a murderer will kill someone, but does that justify it? NO. I don't think there's ANY justifiable reason why I would cause Fuze that much pain... Granted, I didn't really think about how MUCH pain it would cause when I emailed that guy, because I suppose I was being selfish. If I would have really thought about it, I might have never done it.

And most cheaters blame their partner or a sex addiction, don't they? I'm not blaming him- if anything, I'm blaming myself since I was causing some of those problems.

...As for Craigslist, the more you talk about it, the more stupid I feel, so perhaps that wasn't well thought out either.

And I wanted you all to know that we're not some stupid couple that has no idea about anything.


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## exback4ever (Jan 16, 2012)

Save yourself the trouble and get rid of her now. I went through a similar situation with my ex wife. I Ignored it as she promised it would never happen again. She made it sound like I was just not there for her enough and she needed someone to talk to. Well, I would have saved my self a lot of time, money, and headaches if I had just ended it right away. 

She actually started getting high with her craigslist voyfriends and decided to falsly accuse me of hitting her so she could have me thrown in jail and she could have everything. I fought it for a year along with a custody battle... luckily I won, but save yourself the trouble and end it now.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Before you take her back. Go down and read Tover's post. Then you get to see the consequences of how a S&M and domination fantasy can effect a marriage. And then you might realize that when she finds a master, he will systematically debase your GF. He will make her say stuff about you and how horrible, or weak, or bad in bed. He will film her and spread it on the internet. Read about the hell Tover has gone through. And he has 5 kids. Then think hard about taking her back. In fact I would PM Tover for his advice.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Your girlfriend has demonstrated that she is willing to be careless and risky and to disregard possible harm to you in the pursuit of her pleasure. If you're okay with polyamory, then agree to be open with each other about being in an open relationship. If you're trying to stay monogamous, though...it is unlikely that your girlfriend will be a reliable monogamous partner to you. Maybe you guys have a good relationship but are sexually mismatched. Give it a try to meet each other's needs, but if you can't, then just let go of each other. This could happen again. Craig's List is a risky place to seek out fantasies. There are safer places to seek out fetish sex and doing so with the consent of one's partner shows a responsible attitude, not an immature one. Unfortunately, your girlfriend chose the immature and unsafe route. Not a good indicator of what's to come. Maybe stop being monogamous with her while you both try to find someone else with whom each of you is better matched? Don't ignore what this tells you about problems in your relationship. You might not be as well-partnered as you had assumed. Good Luck. This is a tough decision.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> I wasn't "rug sweeping" by any means. I've actually tried to break up with her two or three times now, but can't actually do it. I'm not one to make quick decisions like that. I need to think about it before I am certain.
> 
> That's why I told her I told her I needed space away from her, to gather my thoughts and think about there even being a possibility of a future together.
> 
> ...


If you have read the emails,then you would have had some insight into what is going through her head, you have missed out on some very important information.

The word ``desparation`` really worries me, it`s def. some form of addiction, just like an addict wanting his fix, it becomes a desperate attempt to feed their high. She was fighting the hurge for weeks before. Seriously, if I were you, I would have grave concerns for a woman to be on Craigslist, that`s where the lowest of the lowest hang out, it`s pretty scarry. She`s willing to risk her life to feed her high, I`m sure she has done this before. She needs counseling right now, you cannot fulfill that fetish, this will be hard for her to quit, she will always have those urges, unless she gets help, then she will be in recovery. 

Are you willing to live with that? are you willing to accept relapses? Get checked for STD`s, and i don`t say that often. Be worried.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

desert-rose said:


> Your girlfriend has demonstrated that she is willing to be careless and risky and to disregard possible harm to you in the pursuit of her pleasure. If you're okay with polyamory, then agree to be open with each other about being in an open relationship. If you're trying to stay monogamous, though...it is unlikely that your girlfriend will be a reliable monogamous partner to you. Maybe you guys have a good relationship but are sexually mismatched. Give it a try to meet each other's needs, but if you can't, then just let go of each other. This could happen again. Craig's List is a risky place to seek out fantasies. There are safer places to seek out fetish sex and doing so with the consent of one's partner shows a responsible attitude, not an immature one. Unfortunately, your girlfriend chose the immature and unsafe route. Not a good indicator of what's to come. Maybe stop being monogamous with her while you both try to find someone else with whom each of you is better matched? Don't ignore what this tells you about problems in your relationship. You might not be as well-partnered as you had assumed. Good Luck. This is a tough decision.


I like this post... We could never be polyamorous. We weren't mismatched before.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually the I think it would be very useful for her to read Tover's post and understand the creeps and crap that can come from being humiliated and used by a dom.

There are a bunch erotic Dom/s books for women written by a woman on Amazon - look at stories like Dress Up Games - I believe is the title.

Perhaps she can get her fix from that? 

But honestly, a guy who's gonna Dom her is going to kill her relationship with the OP. Especially a creep amature dom from craigslist. Ewwww.

How old are the two of you - give a range if you prefer, but I really hope you're under 25. If you're in your 40's WTF!


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

working_together said:


> If you have read the emails,then you would have had some insight into what is going through her head, you have missed out on some very important information.
> 
> The word ``desparation`` really worries me, it`s def. some form of addiction, just like an addict wanting his fix, it becomes a desperate attempt to feed their high. She was fighting the hurge for weeks before. Seriously, if I were you, I would have grave concerns for a woman to be on Craigslist, that`s where the lowest of the lowest hang out, it`s pretty scarry. She`s willing to risk her life to feed her high, I`m sure she has done this before. She needs counseling right now, you cannot fulfill that fetish, this will be hard for her to quit, she will always have those urges, unless she gets help, then she will be in recovery.
> 
> Are you willing to live with that? are you willing to accept relapses? Get checked for STD`s, and i don`t say that often. Be worried.


I'm not an addict... At least I don't think I am. I'll ask my counselor about that. Other than the irresponsibility involved, in doing it on Craigslist, are there any other signs? I don't know much about sex addiction, and I always write it off as just an excuse.


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## mrbiggz (Dec 21, 2011)

What's harder? Telling your significant other that you aren't fulfilled sexually or going underground and cheating? For me and I have personal experience with this, and I think a lot of people here will agree, it's way easier to tell your spouse that you are thinking about cheating than it is to seek out some one else, lay down in bed with them, then go home to a person whom you love and lie to their face. The guilt would kill me.

I find it appalling when a person whom has supposedly dedicated their life to you decides to do the unselfish act of laying down with another person. Why couldn't she come to you and have a talk. Why couldn't she guide you in the bedroom to things that she thought was missing or would spice it up.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

mrbiggz said:


> What's harder? Telling your significant other that you aren't fulfilled sexually or going underground and cheating? For me and I have personal experience with this, and I think a lot of people here will agree, it's way easier to tell your spouse that you are thinking about cheating than it is to seek out some one else, lay down in bed with them, then go home to a person whom you love and lie to their face. The guilt would kill me.
> 
> I find it appalling when a person whom has supposedly dedicated their life to you decides to do the unselfish act of laying down with another person. Why couldn't she come to you and have a talk. Why couldn't she guide you in the bedroom to things that she thought was missing or would spice it up.


I DID tell him. I told him almost a year ago... I told him two more times after that. I asked for help. My problem wasn't not telling him- it was not trying to help myself with how I felt (in a healthy way without cheating) and not being more pushy and blunt. I didn't want to hurt him, so I didn't push him. I was stupid, so I didn't talk to my counselor about it. So I ended up hurting him the worst he's probably ever been hurt. Way to go me.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I`m a bit confused....is it that he can`t fulfill your fantasies that drove you to cheat? or were you not satisfied in general? What exactly did you tell him a year ago?


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Actually the I think it would be very useful for her to read Tover's post and understand the creeps and crap that can come from being humiliated and used by a dom.


I read the OP... Does it seriously get any worse?



Shaggy said:


> There are a bunch erotic Dom/s books for women written by a woman on Amazon - look at stories like Dress Up Games - I believe is the title.
> 
> Perhaps she can get her fix from that?


No. I would prefer to not tantalize myself with something I cannot have. I think I'm capable of pushing it to the back of my mind. It's not the fantasy and eroticism of it. It's the act of doing it and the feelings of being worth something that come with it.



Shaggy said:


> How old are the two of you - give a range if you prefer, but I really hope you're under 25. If you're in your 40's WTF!


We are on the younger end of things... That went through my head, too- do it before you're old and no one wants you! Just another messed up thought pattern of mine.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

It's hard to explain. A year ago I just felt ignored and neglected. Then I felt less ignored and neglected but I had the fantasy and blah blah blah blah. It's kind of foggy now as to how I felt.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

Eegads! I read up to like tenth page. I am nothing like that woman. I don't do slave contracts, ritually undo vows I made, send full sex tapes where I could be identified, and I'd NEVER let a extramarital partner disrespect my "main man." I could go on and on and on about the details of my emails and the stark contrast to that situation... But I don't want to make Fuze any sicker than he has to be. It's really different.

But if THAT's what you associate with D/s, then I definitely see why you think I'm a psycho! That poor man... I wonder why there was no previous signs of this. She obviously wasn't very discreet.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How did you discover you wanted this? I mean, this just doesn't occur to people. They have to be introduced to it somehow or learned about it somehow. 

It seems to be dominated, you let someone else "make" you do sexual things you want to do but you do not have to take responibilty for making those decisions.

How long have you been doing this?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Eegads! I read up to like tenth page. I am nothing like that woman. I don't do slave contracts, ritually undo vows I made, send full sex tapes where I could be identified, and I'd NEVER let a extramarital partner disrespect my "main man." I could go on and on and on about the details of my emails and the stark contrast to that situation... But I don't want to make Fuze any sicker than he has to be. It's really different.
> 
> But if THAT's what you associate with D/s, then I definitely see why you think I'm a psycho! That poor man... I wonder why there was no previous signs of this. She obviously wasn't very discreet.


She didn't start out like that, it didn't happen overnight, that's just what her Dom led her into over time.

The truth is you don't know what your playing with and how people find themselves caught up in these things.

The truth is you are going into it with some idea of what a Dom is, she wasn't even aware of what she was dealing with. She had never heard of a Dom.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I personally feel anyone who is able to give up everything for a sexual fantasy, in this example - a 3 yr relationship, trust in your relationship (which will take YEARS to get over), as well as potentially your life (you don't know who you are meeting on CL really or where they have been, no matter how 'safe' you think you have made it).... Obviously that is a very impulsive person and I do not feel that this person can ever be trusted again.

It isn't even like she fell in love with a coworker by chance. She was out shopping around and actively LOOKING for someone to cheat with, and obviously wasn't being that selective as it was a stranger on CL (with God knows what kind of STDs or ideas in he head). She is willing to risk YOUR life as well, because who knows if this person has been shopping on CL and sleeping with any girl that comes along and contracted some kind of disease.

I really think you need to think this over. You aren't even married to this girl yet, or have kids with her. Count your lucky stars. It's only been 3 years... You really think this is going to last for 30 years or more?

If it were me, and I was in this relationship and not married and not living together, I'd run. I'd run far away. You can find someone else deserving of your love and considerate about your feelings over some sexual fantasy. I personally do not see your relationship being worth the time and cost associated with counseling, you aren't married and you don't have children. I don't see the point, to be frankly honest. There will be more heartache and forever issues with your relationship. Who knwos if you will ever be able to move on from checking her email and phone. Who wants to live like that if they don't have to??

Give it a lot of thought. This is going to take years to get over and you will have relapses of distrust. Things will never be the same again.

Do you love her for who she REALLY is, or do you love her for what you WISH she was? If it's because you love what you WISH she is, I suggest you get out and meet someone who really is what you wish for.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Nah, you're nothing like her. You are a much more noble cheater then her. You just wanted to have some guy tie you up spank you and have sex with you. You're right, you're nothing like her. Do you think that when you get in relationships like this, that you are control? You're tied up you idiot. You're like one of those people in the movie idiocracy.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Eegads! I read up to like tenth page. I am nothing like that woman. I don't do slave contracts, ritually undo vows I made, send full sex tapes where I could be identified, and I'd NEVER let a extramarital partner disrespect my "main man." I could go on and on and on about the details of my emails and the stark contrast to that situation... But I don't want to make Fuze any sicker than he has to be. It's really different.
> 
> But if THAT's what you associate with D/s, then I definitely see why you think I'm a psycho! That poor man... I wonder why there was no previous signs of this. She obviously wasn't very discreet.


Do you think she started out doing all that stuff? No, she started playing a game with a guy who wanted to be her dom and she let it go a little more, a little more, a little more.

that's why what you thought you'd be playing with using a guy from craigslist is so freaking nasty, and why not only were you set to cheat, but honestly you were set to cheat and really mess up you.

As for getting it out when you're young - yeah great thinking there. Perhaps you'd like a little meth, crack, and heroin as a side dish to get them out of the way too.

Look, I have no problem with D/s or any other playtime. The problem here comes right back to the root of this: Cheating. Lying to your partner and setting up playtime for you.

that's not just selfish, but it's the kind of thing that scars your partners soul for the rest of his life. 

Is your need for playtime worth a scar on his soul? You thought so a couple of days ago. You were willing trading a piece of him for an hour or two of some idiot calling you names, smacking your butt, making you eat of the floor, and then using you to get off.

And it's because you were willing to make that trade that I don't think he should just give you another chance. It's not like you've sudden realized that cheating is wrong, and oops you bad. You knew it was horrible and wrong, and yet you justified it in your mind.

You didn't break up with him, saying "i'm not fulfilled". Nope, you lied and planned behind his back to give another guy a roll with you. 

What's changed other than you got caught?


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Do you think she started out doing all that stuff? No, she started playing a game with a guy who wanted to be her dom and she let it go a little more, a little more, a little more.
> 
> that's why what you thought you'd be playing with using a guy from craigslist is so freaking nasty, and why not only were you set to cheat, but honestly you were set to cheat and really mess up you.
> 
> ...


I realized how much it would hurt him and that there's a better way to have dealt with the issue.

Really, you guys are giving me a good clue as to what the rest of this healing process is going to look like. It's not very healing. The POS I always felt I was is now what I am, and everyone is doing a lovely job of reminding me about that. I always feared I didn't deserve to be in love- now I KNOW I don't.

This all adds to the big smoking pile of things I personally destroyed:
- Being able to tell him whenever my piss is a different color (because like everyone else, his assumption will be "Oh, God she cheated on me! I gotta go get tested!" instead of previously "Oh, go to the doctor! Remember how they said your ulcer might be something else?"
- Intimacy (I ****ed this up on many levels obviously)
- Others taking our relationship seriously
- His confidence (penis size, being cursed to be without love, stature, money, etc. those insecurities were ALWAYS there, BTW- I just now made them tenfold)
- Our anniversary trip to the beach (okay, small, but I thought I';d throw it in)
- The little trust he had (uh, and no, the original lack of trust was NOT caused by me- that was there before my ****ty self walked into his life, and it was before without reason)
- Our friendship
- And a whole lot of **** about myself you don't care about
- Me having

Oh, and that adds onto MORE issues that were already there:
- My insecurities
- His insecurities
- Me being a controling b****
- Him keeping tabs on me all the time
- Him smoking pot and drinking behind my back
- Me apparently talking so much about what is wrong that he no longer wants to listen
- Me having panic attacks when he hangs out with his friends
- Him thinking all of my friends are *****s
- Me never having an orgasm in my life (he took that personally but I really didn't mind)

So basically, you all are right. We are messed up beyond all repair. No one here deserves a second chance. We were best friends. We used to share an amazing sex life. We confided everything in one another. We were like brother/sister. We and everyone else agreed that we were soul mates. We were waiting until we both finished grad school to get married- but we basically already were. We helped eachother through tons of tough times. But I'm a psychotic, unfaithful c***, so instead of seeking help and reaching for a healthier relationship, we are supposed to give up. Thank you so much for bringing this all into the light. Thank you so much for saving him from such a terrible life with me.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> I realized how much it would hurt him and that there's a better way to have dealt with the issue.
> 
> Really, you guys are giving me a good clue as to what the rest of this healing process is going to look like. It's not very healing. The POS I always felt I was is now what I am, and everyone is doing a lovely job of reminding me about that. I always feared I didn't deserve to be in love- now I KNOW I don't.
> 
> ...


Yes, YOU screwed all of that up. Feel the guilt. Learn from it. Maybe you will be a better person once you realize how to THINK BEFORE YOU ACT.

Your transgression wasn't a small one. If you think the guilt is too much to bear and you can't be bothered trying to beg your way into a second chance with him, then you're going to repeat this probably because you have not learned anything from your own behavior.

Having an angry fit and freaking out that you're upset about what you yourself have created doesn't undo it. You are lashing out at an anonymous forum for telling you what you actually know already and what you caused yourself. Think about that for a moment. I'm being sincere, not snarky. You're upset because something is getting to you. Let it get to you. Figure it out. THEN move or you're going to be haunted by the same issues in the future.

You were looking for a master slave thing with your Craig's List Guy, just convert the fantasy a little and slave it up for your boyfriend in trying to earn back his trust. Maybe you might be able to meet some core need in your fantasy in this way?

I like the fetish thing, my WH didn't. I compromised for him because I loved him; and took my pleasure where I could. Worked with the restraints I had rather than against them. Turns out he preferred his kink on the side instead of at home; such a shame. Maybe you can find a way to make that work for you, though. Point being, if you're not willing to go through the pain of facing what you did, you do not deserve your Fuze who is trying to give you a second chance despite your very poor decisions and very deep betrayal. Think about what you're asking of him and face what you've done.

If you don't like who you are and you don't want to be the POS you were afraid you were or felt like you were, then CHOOSE to be someone better!


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Oh, and you also threadnapped his thread. This was to help him with his pain. The 2x4s keep coming, because you're having a pity party, and still have not owned what you did (reasons, excuses keep pouring in). Now you've totally taken over his thread. Is this what you meant by being a controlling B***H? All fuze needs to do is read your responses to see that you are not ready for an adult relationship.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Let's pick up the pieces:

1. What has changed - what are you going to change to this can never happen again.

2. Complete transparency for both of you is a must. Actually your assertion that you can't tell him anything now is actually the wrong approach. If you want him to trust you - then you need to an open book so he knows there isn't anything sneaky going on.

3. Own your ****. I don't mean throw up a bunch of pity party words - I mean tell him and own the words - What I did was hateful and just about the nastiest thing I could do to a person I love. I had decided to head down that path, and it was a very bad choice that if I had a do over would never take again.

4. Missing the O - ok, that's not uncommon. Work on that together - sex isn't something that you are born mastering, it's something you learn with lots of practice and feedback. Check out the free stuff on the web on this. I think there is one site something like giveheranorgasm which has rather well done education videos.

5. I again suggest trying to read so of the D/s erotica books. It might be just thing to mentally fill you up and get you worked up without needing the real life thing, and it might help with #4

6. turn your desire for D into part of your new relationship with Fuze.

yes the old relationship is broken, so kick it out and try to build a new relationship with him.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

:iagree:

You might also want to google-craiglist murders


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't word that phrase right. I wasn't talking about "almost always" not cheating, but "almost always" stops thoughts about other things: suicide, running away, etc.
> 
> *If it makes any difference, she feels EXTREMELY remorseful about the whole episode.* A lot of you will probably say "no she's remorseful she got caught," but I know from her reactions and the way she treated me later on when we were talking that she wishes she had never done anything like this.
> 
> ...


It really does not. Run away. You are not married and you do not have kids. Get away now.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sleepless, I cannot repeat how dangerous the Slave/Dom thing if you do not find the right guy. The most important part of these relation is the trust thing. Do not absolutely enter the world without a partner you cannot absolutely trust. And be very very careful.

I was talking to another girl in a different forum. She was heavily into this stuff. He bf broke off their relationship. But in hopes of getting him back, she entered a FWB relation as well as a Master/slave relation with him. The guy lost interest eventually and soon enough, he leased her to a gangbang.(The humiliation seems to be a part of the Master/Slave thing). He dropped her off at a site without telling her much. There were some old creeps and bunch of normal guys waiting for her. She tried calling her Dom back, but he never answered her back. She went through the motions(of a gangbang) though she was disgusted by the guys just to get out of there. She was lucky to get out with just STDs, the gift from the encounter. She is traumatized now and hasn't had sex for the last 2 years and she doesn't think she will again for quite some time. She is disgusted by sex now.

Now that was a very lucky scenario. Are you an idiot? How careless can you get? Especially when BDSM is a very dangerous territory. You need to trust your partners immensely to do anything. There is should some sort of implicit understanding about your partner's boundaries. 

You don't exactly realize the incredible amount of stupidity of what you just did. You realize that you did some wrong, but you don't realize the magnitude of it. Leave about the cheating. This could put your life at risk. This could have ruined your life.(leaked tapes). Utter humiliation (secret tapes mailed to your work place, family members when you've stopped contact), life long regrets(STDs), bringing dangerous people into your lives.. Please examine your choice again. It is OK if your urges are greater than your love for him. Find a better or a more compatible partner. What you indulged in was very destructive behavior.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Here's a big thing about D/s - it's 100% about trust.

Ok, so the rule needs to be for BOTH sides - never engage in it with someone you don't trust.

How to measure trust? There are a lot of ways, but here are a few for openers:

1. Would you tell them your darkest, worst, secret? Would you trust them to keep it?

2. Would you give them ALL your passwords?

3. Would you sign power of attorney to them?

4. Would you put them on your bank accounts?

5. Would you give them your wallet and tell them to use what they want?

---

if the answer to any of these is NO - then you don't trust them.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Hope I don't get attacked or flamed here, but I'm honestly expecting it. No one on the internet is nice, and no one likes cheaters. It would be preferable if you didn't, but oh well.





> Yes, I understand this. That is why I didn't really expect NOT to be flamed.



Didn't take long to scare her away.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Didn't take long to scare her away.


An this is nothing compared to what a pretend dom would dish out.


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

We have decided to go to a therapist to address our issues as a couple, and she is going to her own therapy to help with her clearly destructive behaviors. 

I'm probably a fool for giving her another chance with me, but we've been through a lot together. We were like brother/sister, which makes what she did hurt all the more. But I also refuse to just throw it all away. We are like family, and family doesn't disown a member at their first transgression. 

I think what you all are saying is true: she doesn't seem to fully understand the magnitude of what she's done, and if she has, it's probably more along the lines of "How will _I _ live without him?" rather than "I can't believe I hurt him so much!" This is one of the most puzzling and depressing aspects of the aftermath to me. 

Of course she feels terrible for hurting me, but I don't think she is able to comprehend exactly how much. But her relative lack of empathy isn't her fault. She's never had to endure anything like this. She can picture how it would feel, but won't ever understand until it happens to her.

I'll have to see in the coming weeks if I am able to realistically see ourselves in a healthy relationship sometime in the future. She will have to go without her fantasy for the rest of her life more than likely, and the minute I see any remorse about that loss, than that will be my clue that she really isn't able to cope without it, and that she is addicted. We will separate then.

A non-addict would never want to put their loved one through the pain of cheating for the sake of their pleasure if the couple was completely happy otherwise. I will be on the lookout for signs of relapses.

The deeper reasons behind WHY she committed this act are still unclear, and we spent a couple hours the other night pondering. Was it more out of feeling a lost emotional connection or a sexual connection? Did she really just crave the companionship of an older, more mature partner, where to him money was no object? Could she have done it because she simply felt I wasn't listening or caring anymore?

I know, none of these are an excuse for her idiotic, destructive, cowardly, and painful actions. But I think in order for me to move on and really heal, we both have to understand the true underlying thoughts and emotions behind it.

I want to thank all of you for helping shed light on this situation. I think she has a better understanding of how she affected me and the way I think of her now, through all of your words. They were hurtful to her, but she needed to hear them.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Fuze_Man, you are setting up yourself for trouble.

Not saying you shouldn't R in principle, but she shows no remorse as of now. It's pointless.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Snaps right. Not much contrition there.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Did she really just crave the companionship of an older, more mature partner, where to him money was no object? Could she have done it because she simply felt I wasn't listening or caring anymore?


Look, from what she wrote here, she isn't into the whole caring and tendering thing AT ALL. You are a gentle, sensitive guy, and this is exactly the opposite from what she was looking for. She wants to submit, to serve and to be mistreated, but you go instead to offer more of the same. Did it work for you the last time? 

Re-read her own posts again, she is annoyed and embarrassed, but is pretty clear at the same time. Don't substitute your soul-searching for her actual desires.

Don't be a sub to a sub, this is not going to work.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm getting the sense by her writing that she has some serious mental issues, some of the things she has said and done are quite alarming and dangerous. This is a person who I feel will never show any remorse, not until she gets some serious help. Even then, it's questionable.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Where did the money is no object line come from? How was money a part of what she was planning to do?


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Every woman/girl I have ever known and know use the term 'pee' not 'piss' - a nano of doubt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

All of you were right. 

She called me up last night, told me she wanted to write a no contact letter to this guy, and asked me to read it and give my approval. But...

A DAY after I caught her, she emailed the guy from an email account I didn't know about, and asked him irrelevant questions like "Were you talking to other girls besides me?"

She already knew the answer. Before I caught her, she went to a friend's house, and her friend emailed the guy and pretended to want to dirty talk with him also. The guy did. Her friend told her this, so Sleepless already knew she wasn't special to him.

Bottom line is: Sleepless is not as dedicated to healing as she thought. One day after I was devastated by her actions, she was already emailing the guy from another account, trying to prove to herself that he really was the scumbag she wanted him to be.

The issue here is not motive, but about the actual act itself. She knew she shouldn't have emailed him again, because she did so with an account I didn't know existed, rather than one she gave me a password to. 

To her credit, she told me this before I had to find out. She thought the no contact letter would help me. But asking him if he'd been talking to other girls is pointless.

She is a cheater, a liar, a manipulator. She can't stop.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> All of you were right.
> 
> She called me up last night, told me she wanted to write a no contact letter to this guy, and asked me to read it and give my approval. But...
> 
> ...


Sorryto here it, what do you plan to do now? She seems totally intrigued by the Dom/Sub lifestyle.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Or maybe she is trying to prove he is a fake or something to herself? And that she is a fool for talking to such guys and call him out on it.


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Or maybe she is trying to prove he is a fake or something to herself? And that she is a fool for talking to such guys and call him out on it.


I believe that this is true. But she already knew he did the same thing to her friend that he did to her, and she still did so behind my back. Should that make a difference? She's been posting things on facebook and sending texts to all her friends about terrible things she's considering doing to herself: cutting my name into her arm, burning my initial in her leg, tattooing my name on herself. (So everyone knows, she won't actually do this, but she does feel terrible)

She really wants to be faithful to me, but she couldn't even stop herself from sending an email to the guy, under the radar, by using an obscure email account.

To her credit, there is an immense amount of contrition on her part. She tells me over and over again how she wishes she had never done this, how guilty she feels, and she cries terribly.

*Also, let me add a few more details that I have came upon in our talks.

1. She actually responded to 3 different ads, but didn't continue with the other two. She said they "weren't really what she was looking for". 

2. She had planned on cheating on me not once with this person, but repeatedly over a period of possibly months. There's no telling if she could have actually done that though. She said the guilt would've eaten her alive.

3. About a week before she began emailing the guy, she made a mock ad to post on craigslist in the platonic section, but DID NOT actually post it. All she said about it was that she was looking for an older male to talk to.

4. She has told all of her close friends and family what she's done. Mother, sister, best friend of many years, etc.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Seems like she has a serious need for attention and loves to act out the poor pitiful me thing big time. So now she's found out people give her lots of attention because she wants to cheat. So she continued to talk with this guy to get even more attention.

She seems like an emotionally immature self centered person. This came through in her posts here where she didn't talk about remorse or how to make it up to you, instead it was pity me, here is why I did it, pity me for that too, me me me me me.

Actually a real Dom wouldn't put up with such crap. She would be demanding he stop and give her more attention poor poor her.

Could she do something dramatic, sure if she thought it would get even more attention.

Run from this one sir. She's far too selfish to be able to actually be in a real mature relationship with another adult. Is she much beyond a 17 yr old who thinks she's a little more sophisticated than everyone else and is entitled to handle more intense experiences then the average self centered chick?

You can honestly say you've dodged a major bullet here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> Do I stay with and try to work things out with a girl that I truly love and who truly loves me back but almost cheated on me?


A girl that you truly love? One that loves you? You mean one that cheats? One that was planning on meeting this guy and spreading her legs for him? Sorry to put it like that, but thats how you need to see it.

Should you try to stay and make it work with someone that wants to screw another guy? Uh, IMO, that would be an absolutely HELL NO.




> Or should I not give her a second chance and move on?


A 2nd chance to what? Try to get some strange behind your back again?


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

She has issues that will take hard work and professional help to resolve. She should be knee deep in this process before you open your heart to her and start trusting again. She not only needs attention she is a thrill seeker, responding to Craigslist ads is a good way to get you mugged, raped, or killed and she KNOWS this......

It's like she trolled for a sex partner in the dangerous part if town, in the parking lot by the liquor store whose main business is selling Thunderbird as opposed to a fancy hotel lounge, convention/business hotel bar or simply at het work or gym.

Crags list for hook-ups is slumming. It's more complicated than you think, she can't just cold turkey these desires.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

*This is her story from another forum:*

"Now I admitted a new detail to him, and he could not take it and broke up with me... He said he wanted complete transparency, and I thought that's what it would take to repair our relationship. Well, I still think that's true, but he said he was breaking up with me... Then he said he'd think about it after I went to his house to talk to him.

I feel like I'm dying right now, but that doesn't matter... The small detail was this:

A day or two after he found out (which was like 4 days ago...) he had talked about breaking up. I said I would never speak to the OM and deleted my email that I used to respond to him. My friend had emailed him out of curiousity and basically got the same exact email reply he gave me. I guess he cut/copy/pastes his fantasies. I wasn't upset at this, I didn't care. Then E [this is me, Fuze_Man] said some things that hinted towards breaking up and that made me feel like ****. I was upset, but I couldn't lash out at him. I couldn't talk bad about him to make myself feel better... So I thought I'd message OM and see if he was a dirty lying scum bag. I emailed him from another email account (first big mistake). I asked if he found any other little girls to play with, and he said no and asked why my other email was deleted. I never responded. I wanted to know he was a scum bag to talk crap about him with my friend, so I would feel better. I didn't care about messaging him, because I was upset with E. Stupid, foolish, selfish, dumb- and another betrayal.

I wanted to do a no-contact letter, too, because I heard those help and help the cheated on partner. Guess not... He was even upset that I'd want to tell this guy it was over. He wasn't supposed to matter that much- and he didn't matter at all. I just wanted to help in the recover process.

Crisis center is just a bandaid, and I need to be selfish for a sec and get support... There is something wrong with me. I'm struggling to deal with this in a healthy manner, but I'm making it (and REALLY proud of myself, I might add- came a long way since my last break up)."


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

No. Let her go and she can have her fantasy. When she's done and if you still want her back at that point the the 2 of you can work it out from then.

But most people don't want to buy back their old car that they sold or gave to someone else in most cases. There are alot of old and fond memories but you ditched that old car for some reason.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> No. Let her go and she can have her fantasy. When she's done and if you still want her back at that point the the 2 of you can work it out from then.
> 
> But most people don't want to buy back their old car that they sold or gave to someone else in most cases. There are alot of old and fond memories but you ditched that old car for some reason.


I don't agree with this. She is foolish enough to get hurt really bad or worse.

Did you ever figure out where she got this idea in the first place? I would assume she has been looking at some kind of porn not realizing that is mostly fake.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I don't get why it matters if he was a scum bag or not. Is she saying that if he WASN'T a scum bag she wouldn't feel guilty for what she did?

Perhaps she'd feel more guilty that she DIDN'T cheat?

So, what are your plans now?

I think you need to get out. You deserve better than that.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> I'm probably a fool for giving her another chance with me, but we've been through a lot together.* We were like brother/sister*, which makes what she did hurt all the more. But I also refuse to just throw it all away. We are like family, and family doesn't disown a member at their first transgression.



If I recall correctly, you have mentioned the "brother/sister" relationship several times.

That's probably the wrong way of looking at your relationship with her. Unless, of course, that's what you want?


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## Fuze_Man (Jan 14, 2012)

We have decided to give each other space to sort out our emotions. 

She will go to therapy to address her issues, and will come back with a clearer idea of whether or not she is likely to do this again.

I will take this time to figure out if I have the possibility of ever being happy with her again.

Thank you all for the help.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuze_Man said:


> We have decided to give each other space to sort out our emotions.
> 
> She will go to therapy to address her issues, and will come back with a clearer idea of whether or not she is likely to do this again.
> 
> ...


Good luck with that?

She's really got your number doesn't she? Ask yourself this - what would it actually take for you to really end it with her? What more does she have to do? 

So far we now know that she can arrange with a stranger to set up to be his sub and have it go on indeffinitely behind your back. 

So you obviously are setting the bar much higher than attempted cheating with intent.

Does she have to sleep with him?

Does she have to make a video to him renouncing you and proclaim herself his possession?

One more thing to think about: Imagine having and raising kids with her. Imagine that, imagine her being a girls/boys mom and giving them life advice.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Where did she post a thread?


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

aug said:


> If I recall correctly, you have mentioned the "brother/sister" relationship several times.
> 
> That's probably the wrong way of looking at your relationship with her. Unless, of course, that's what you want?


I think incest was mentioned in his post, as in some sort of fantasy.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Where did she post a thread?


Someone's curious...lol


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Maybe it's just me, but I really couldn't figure out what she was saying in her post.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

working_together said:


> Someone's curious...lol


I would like to know what kind of reponses she is getting. I rarely look at other marriage websites.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Think I saw her on SI.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TBT said:


> Think I saw her on SI.


Sports Illustrated? Damn I didn't know that was a sport.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

She's posting on a BDSM website.

Just take her comments and google it. Use quotation marks


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Sports Illustrated? Damn I didn't know that was a sport.


lol,SurvivingInfidelity!


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

FM's so-called gf said:


> So I thought I'd message OM and see if he was a dirty lying scum bag.


Uh, she herself is a dirty lying scumbag. Cheaters are all those things by default. She has no business trying to climb up on a high horse.




> I emailed him from another email account (first big mistake). I asked if he found any other little girls to play with, and he said no and asked why my other email was deleted. I never responded. I wanted to know he was a scum bag to talk crap about him with my friend


She doesn't see what scumbag she is herself. Amazing.




> I wanted to do a no-contact letter, too, because I heard those help and help the cheated on partner. Guess not... He was even upset that I'd want to tell this guy it was over. He wasn't supposed to matter that much- and he didn't matter at all. I just wanted to help in the recover process.


She just fed the forum a load of bs. She didn't do this for the recovery process for her partner. She did it because she was scorned and wanted to feel better about herself.



> Crisis center is just a bandaid, and I need to be selfish for a sec and get support... There is something wrong with me. I'm struggling to deal with this in a healthy manner, but I'm making it (and REALLY proud of myself, I might add- came a long way since my last break up)."


Sounds like she cares more about how this is affecting her, and focusing on the OM, as opposed to the hurt she caused her significant other.

Again, as I and others have said. Get rid of her for good.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

dymo said:


> She's posting on a BDSM website.
> 
> Just take her comments and google it. Use quotation marks


smplace.com is where she is posting.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Fuze Man, I want to be all sarcastic, but, well, actually, I don't want to get banned, so let me set the BS aside.

The facts of the matter exist independent of your feelings. You may blame yourself for not being a perfect partner (not that you should) and justify things any number of ways, but the facts remain.

Fact: Your partner tried to arrange a hookup through Craigslist with another man. 

Fact: While she has talked a great deal about how remorseful she is, her actions have not shown that she is remorseful.

Fact: She contacted Craigslist guy again, after saying she would not do so.

Fact: She has any number of sites online that she could post on and complain about the injustice of it all. Out of all those places she could post, she chooses a site dedicated to her fetish that caused all these problems for the two of you in the first place.

Fact: You cant un-know any of the things she has done. They will be with you always.

So you're taking some time to figure out if you ever have the chance of being happy with her again, and that's a pretty good course of action, right now. It's an important decision, and you have a lot to think about.

The overwhelming consensus is that you would have a much better life with someone else as your partner, and I agree with that opinion, but it is your life, and it is up to you to live it.

I hope that whatever decision you make works out well for you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow, read her thread. She has some emotional and self esteem issues. Poor girl. Hope she gets some therapy and fixes herself.

And Fuze, good luck with this thing. She seems very immature emotionally and selfish at this point in life. If I were you, I wouldn't be rushing to take her back anytime soon until she fixes her issues


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

double post


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ok so i know both of these people. and honestly none of you know them. so there for you don't know about there life. they are both good hearted people and a really cute couple. They have been through a lot. and since you people don't know them that well you cant make a fair opinion. If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that this person was your soulmate would you not give her one more chance to prove her loyalty trust and love for you? I know i would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

It's them who chose to post here, nobody was forcing them dude. They obviously have some issues, otherwise this thread would've not existed.


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

true but im just saying no one can make a fair opinion unless you know and have been around them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Is it possible to know a person 100%? No, not even after 10 years of sharing the same bed. Just trust me on that.

Is it possible to form an opinion based on what you know? Oh yes.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think magicdan1988 might be Sleepless. Or her friend


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

i think dan is both of there friends im pretty sure i said that in my first post.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> i think dan is both of there friends im pretty sure i said that in my first post.


Who is Dan?


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> Ok so i know both of these people. and honestly none of you know them. so there for you don't know about there life. they are both good hearted people and a really cute couple. They have been through a lot. and since you people don't know them that well you cant make a fair opinion. If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that this person was your soulmate would you not give her one more chance to prove her loyalty trust and love for you? I know i would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what the "soulmate" experience is like?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> Ok so i know both of these people. and honestly none of you know them. so there for you don't know about there life. they are both good hearted people and a really cute couple. They have been through a lot. and since you people don't know them that well you cant make a fair opinion. If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that this person was your soulmate would you not give her one more chance to prove her loyalty trust and love for you? I know i would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have not thought people should stay together because they are "a really cute couple" since sixth grade, and neither should the original poster.

Further, if the person I "knew without a shadow of a doubt ... was [my] soulmate" did this to me, I would seriously reevaluate my criteria for a soulmate. 

She appears to have serious issues that need to be addressed immediately. Regardless of knowing them in person, he needs to proceed with extreme care. She needs to do huge amounts of work before he should even consider giving her another chance.


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

is that what you think is right?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> Ok so i know both of these people. and honestly none of you know them. so there for you don't know about there life. they are both good hearted people and a really cute couple. They have been through a lot. and since you people don't know them that well you cant make a fair opinion. If you knew without a shadow of a doubt that this person was your soulmate would you not give her one more chance to prove her loyalty trust and love for you? I know i would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trust, but not blind trust. She blew that when she setup the cheating, and then tossed out the second chance when she used a secret email account to contact the guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> is that what you think is right?


How far do you trust her?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow. I read her other forum posting.

Her "I" key must be broken after what she wrote. It's is completely about her. Even when she's talking about what she did to him, it's all about how she is dealing with him being hurt by her.

Wow, yes that is one girl who needs some serious therapy with an focus on empathy for others.

It's curious how she even blames him for why she decided to cheat. How she fought it so long, but in the end he didn't deliver for her, so he made her cheat.

There is also the ironic twist that she was looking for a Daddy. does that mean she wanted someone to give he undivided attention and more while having sex with her? I'm not familiar with Daddy in this context.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Wow. I read her other forum posting.
> 
> Her "I" key must be broken after what she wrote. It's is completely about her. Even when she's talking about what she did to him, it's all about how she is dealing with him being hurt by her.
> 
> ...


She wants spanked.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The BDSM people were pretty harsh on her for the cheating. One even advised that it(BDSM) is not for her right now with her current state of mind.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> The BDSM people were pretty harsh on her for the cheating. One even advised that it(BDSM) is not for her right now with her current state of mind.


Yeah, I saw that. Even the BSDM people told her that she was completely in the wrong cheating and planning it like she did.

It sounds like she had previously posted there on her plans to hookup and cheat, and it sounds like they didn't think that was ok either.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Yeah, I saw that. Even the BSDM people told her that she was completely in the wrong cheating and planning it like she did.
> 
> It sounds like she had previously posted there on her plans to hookup and cheat, and it sounds like they didn't think that was ok either.


Can you post a link? I went there but chickened out when I couldn't find it right off the bat. LOL


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## Badsmit (Dec 29, 2011)

I will give the girl credit for coming onto this site and getting and not so flattering assessment of her actions. With that said she is like my wife, she is blame shifting. She may have issues but Fuze_man you have to decide if your past (with her) represents something good and you are willing to work at it or if she threw it all away. Right now she is feeling the burn (of losing you) and scared. Those are not good reason to stay with her. If she needs help she needs to go get it and prove to you she is worth having… Ask yourself 5-10 years from now do you thinks she will do this again? If you can’t honestly say she will not then you have your answer. Has she changed and if/once she does are you going to love the “NEW” person or will they/she be a shinning reminder of her betrayal? She seems remorseful but it seems that she is committed to herself and not you and the desired relationship. Why does she want back in if she planned and fought so hard (or at least did not care) to deceive you, end it and/ or get out? The quick easy answer is to leave run and enjoy your freedom, The hard thing will be truly assessing your own feeling and deciding if she is part of your future and worth the rehabilitation effort (which may take years)


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuze_man; I know from myself that it can be really hard to consider D if you truly love your spouse and just want to grow old with her.

But do think carefully about your incompatibilities and your girlfriends way of handling them. You are at high risk here.

Best luck.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Badsmith is right. She must be required to do the hard work. Just read her posts. She has the maturity of a child. You should be observing her and thats it.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Hey Fuze, any updates?


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

I take back everything i said. I think he should dump her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

magicdan1988 said:


> I take back everything i said. I think he should dump her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's changed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

The answer to your thread title?

No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm assuming she never stopped, but went underground?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

no she just is a mean women and he needs a better gf. i mean what kind of women after spending 4 years with you trys and cheats on you? that's so messed up. you should be way passed that by now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

magicdan1988 said:


> no she just is a mean women and he needs a better gf. i mean what kind of women after spending 4 years with you trys and cheats on you? that's so messed up. you should be way passed that by now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what did she pull this time in the name of her need to get what she deserves.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magicdan1988 (Jan 18, 2012)

i just think my friend needs a better gf one that is not crazy and a ***** all the time.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Fuze_man just started this thread to get sympathy. he never had any intention of letting Sleepless_in_Vancouver, his, er, partner, go. Every person who offered a genuine opinion offered the same one- get rid of her, find a healthy relationship.

Fuze elected to do counseling with her, supposedly.

Magicdan1988, the way I see it, your friend is getting exactly what he needs. And what he deserves.


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## Badsmit (Dec 29, 2011)

Shakespeare any one 
Two Quotes: 
“What fool ye mortals be…..”
“I will follow you and make a heaven out of hell”


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