# Frustrated husband (31) I deserve better.



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Hey all,

wanted to get some outside opinion of my day and a sense of how to react because I’m just fed up at this point.

My wife (34) and I have a 14 month old baby. Last night I put him to sleep while my wife went to bed around 9. This morning, he woke up around 6:45 and I brought him into our bed. He was hanging out watching cartoons and just laying with us.

About 10 minutes later I say I’m gonna go get him some milk. She says no I think he wants to go downstairs. So I day ok and I take him. She says she will be down in a few. 2 hours later she came down after I had already gotten him dressed, fed him breakfast and played with him by myself.

It’s now around 9:00 so we hang out in the living room watching tv and playing until I say I’m gonna put him down for a nap. She volunteers to do it and goes upstairs with him. 10 minutes later he’s sleeping and she comes down and asks if she can go on a run before it gets hot out. I say sure no problem.

She goes and comes back and it’s now around 12:30 and she wants to feed him lunch and we talked about going to the community pool. She tried to give him something that he didn’t want for lunch while I was upstairs getting changed and got frustrated with him not eating it.

I say are we going to the pool and she says not till he eats so I made him a lunch he devoured. I say okay we ready? She says no he looks tired and I’m tired too we’re gonna take a nap. She takes him upstairs and I kiss them both good night.

she was up there for 2+ hours sleeping with him while I did the dishes, laundry and vacuumed because the cat hair was getting to my allergies.

she comes down and now wants to take him to the pool. I said swim diapers are in my car but then I realize I can’t find my keys. I start looking for my misplaced keys and she walks around sighing and stomping. I say what’s wrong and she goes “now I have to go for the store to get new swim diapers, I don’t understand how you don’t know where your keys are.” She’s also frustrated because now it’s late and the pool closes soon.

mind you, the store is a mile down the road and we have the money.

she comes back and proceeds to get frustrated when the baby won’t listen as she tries to put his bathing suit on. I quickly grab him, get him in the suit and down to the pool with her.

as we walk to the pool she’s just nagging me. I text one of my friends and she gives me a look and makes a comment about me texting. I tell her the truth, my friends grandfather passed away and he’s at the wake. I’m checking on him. She obviously feels dumb at that point and stops but doesn’t apologize or say anything really.

These scenarios which I find disrespectful and immature are really wearing on me.

especially when we then get home and asks what she did because she feels like we haven’t talked much today…


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Does she work?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Does she work?


Yeah we both do. She works full time and I have a full time and a part time job.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah we both do. She works full time and I have a full time and a part time job.


Hmm… I can’t comment on the children aspect but I learned a long time ago I’m going to do a lot of work around the house and I learned to enjoy it. I don’t like hiring people and having them in my house or on my property so I just do it myself because I’m stubborn.

The one thing I require is that if I’m doing the heavy lifting don’t complain about it.

The part of your description that bugged me was her getting on you after having done a lot. Wondering how she would describe the same day?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

FloridaPool said:


> wanted to get some outside opinion of my day and a sense of how to react because I’m just fed up at this point.





FloridaPool said:


> These scenarios which I find disrespectful and immature are really wearing on me.


Well, I guess you can come here to vent. But since you asked for opinions, here's mine: Tell your wife you are fed up. Tell her you feel she is disrespecting you and give her an example. Tell her what she's doing is wearing on you.

A nuclear holocaust may ensue, but you can simmer and stew about this or you can lay your cards on the table. That's how I roll. If something is bothering me, I don't keep it under wraps.

P.S. - Has your wife always been this way? And, from what you've posted, it sounds like you consider your child rearing skills more effective/better than your wife's. Is that correct?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> Hey all,
> 
> wanted to get some outside opinion of my day and a sense of how to react because I’m just fed up at this point.
> 
> ...


Sorry dude but this is on you. Now lets assume this isn't post partem depression, because she is not just sitting in the bed. You are too passive, sit her down and calmly and unemotionally tell her to cut the crap. If she keeps acting like a baby take the kid and go out for a while, say "I need a brake, I'll be back" and go out, leave her there for an hour or two. Let her sit with reality. Confrontation though difficult is necessary. Fear is not always a bad thing when your spouse is acting like a jerk and there is the possibility that it could destroy the relationship.

Don't be so nice, your required to be your wife's partner not her servant or her Dad. You need to establish that there is a point will you will stop putting up with her crap, and that you are valuable and irreplaceable. Passively doing everything for her, being her pin cushion establishes that you are there to do her will.

Your wife will love and desire the assertive version of you more. Trust me.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I've just looked at your other posts and I'm surprised your wife hasn't driven you insane yet. Maybe it's time to reconsider divorce seeing as she said she would let you have full custody of your son, and she will see him on the weekends. You are going to end up severely depressed if this carries on. You also said she gets annoyed, angry at your son. I'd leave with your son because your wife's attitude towards him will be so damaging. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear Florida Pool;

If that is the crisis in your marriage, let me tell you that you a looking at life as a half empty glass.

You have a small child that is taking huge amounts of attention and time from your wife. Yes, that is hard on you, but it will get better. Yes, you feel like you are doing more than half the household choirs, yes you feel she is nagging. Yes, she is feeling tired and pulled on emotionally by your child, and yes, she should treat you better. However, this is what life is about and marriage is a stressful commitment, especially when small children are brought into the equation.

Good, luck. Tell her how much you love her and that you have been a little fussy lately and hope you haven't hurt her feelings (yes, she probably knows that you feel she hurt you emotionally and isn't happy about that.). Then when the two of you have some time, tell her that you need her to show her love for you and that the two of you need to communicate better and not bicker with each other.

Again, Good luck


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Dear Florida Pool;
> 
> If that is the crisis in your marriage, let me tell you that you a looking at life as a half empty glass.
> 
> ...


No. I think you should read OP's other thread. 

OP and the child would be much happier and healthier if these two divorced.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

This really goes back to your very first posting. Your wife doesn’t respect you at all.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> This really goes back to your very first posting. Your wife doesn’t respect you at all.


Yeah it’s really frustrating. I brought all my concerns up about being unappreciated and disrespected in our couples therapy last session.

She apologized and said she “never realized how careless she had been with the person she loves the most.”

She claimed she would help more and treat me better/take my feelings into account more and try to be less reactive.

1 week later and we are back at it again.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah it’s really frustrating. I brought all my concerns up about being unappreciated and disrespected in our couples therapy last session.
> 
> She apologized and said she “never realized how careless she had been with the person she loves the most.”
> 
> ...


She will only change if she wants too. She obviously doesn’t.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> She will only change if she wants too. She obviously doesn’t.


I know which sucks. I really felt like she was trying. All week she was helping more around the house, thanking me for things, complimenting me and sending me old photos of us when we first started dating or just happier days in general.

Every time she thinks I’m gonna leave she breaks down sobbing about how she’s so scared to lose me and has to do better as a wife and a mother. It’s just getting exhausting.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah it’s really frustrating. I brought all my concerns up about being unappreciated and disrespected in our couples therapy last session.
> 
> She apologized and said she “never realized how careless she had been with the person she loves the most.”
> 
> ...


You TOLD her. OK, fine, good first step. 
Telling her about your feelings will not increase her respect for you. She already knows she’s behaving poorly, she just doesn’t care.

Showing her that you will not tolerate disrespectful behavior from her is what matters. And it doesn’t sound like you’ve done that at all.
Stop TELLING her and start SHOWING her (and yourself) that you won’t tolerate bad behavior or disrespect.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> You TOLD her. OK, fine, good first step.
> Telling her about your feelings will not increase her respect for you. She already knows she’s behaving poorly, she just doesn’t care.
> 
> Showing her that you will not tolerate disrespectful behavior from her is what matters. And it doesn’t sound like you’ve done that at all.
> Stop TELLING her and start SHOWING her (and yourself) that you won’t tolerate bad behavior or disrespect.


well, just out of curiosity how would you go about doing so?

I struggle with other people being upset and I always end up backing down.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> I know which sucks. I really felt like she was trying. All week she was helping more around the house, thanking me for things, complimenting me and sending me old photos of us when we first started dating or just happier days in general.
> 
> Every time she thinks I’m gonna leave she breaks down sobbing about how she’s so scared to lose me and has to do better as a wife and a mother. It’s just getting exhausting.


That’s because temporary change is easy. Permanent change is the hard part. She doesn’t want a divorce but she’s not willing to out in the time and effort that’s needed to fix this.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> well, just out of curiosity how would you go about doing so?
> 
> I struggle with other people being upset and I always end up backing down.


In that case, you need to change too or you’ll be her doormat for the rest of your life.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> In that case, you need to change too or you’ll be her doormat for the rest of your life.


So how do I go about doing that?

Every time we’re at therapy she cries how she’s trying so hard to change and do the things I ask but she feels like I’m still unhappy and want out.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> 1 week later and we are back at it again.


Which is natures way of telling you to dump her, 'cause it ain't goin't get be'er, the longer you stay together.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> well, just out of curiosity how would you go about doing so?
> 
> I struggle with other people being upset and I always end up backing down.


That’s why she doesn’t respect you. That’s being passive and weak.

Women respect strength, confidence and leadership, and they despise weak, passive men. And they will almost always treat them badly.
She instinctively understands that if you can’t stand up TO her, you can stand up FOR her. And that’s a huge turn off.

1. You need to work on yourself, your own strength, confidence, assertiveness.
Read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Glover and When I say no I feel guilty, I forget the author on that one.
2. You can’t control her, you can’t control her behavior and you can’t control whether or not she respects you. 
What you can do is make yourself more respectable, and you do control how you react and respond to her.
So if she’s acting poorly, remove yourself from the situation. Don’t argue with her, don’t fight with her, don’t whine about your feelings - just take positive action. 
If she’s behaving poorly, take the kid out for ice cream and tell her she’s not invited unless/until she changes her attitude. 
Go do your own thing, develop your own activities and go there as an alternative to trying to persuade her to treat you better. 
If she’s treating you poorly and disrespectfully, disengage. Remove your time, attention and emotional investment. Don’t act butthurt about it, don’t get angry or emotional, be pleasant, charming and matter-of-fact about it.

You get what you tolerate, and you’ll be treated as poorly as you allow yourself to be treated.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I struggle with other people being upset and I always end up backing down.


You’ve just nailed your problem in that one sentence. You are a doormat and you allow others to treat you as such.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

FloridaPool said:


> I struggle with other people being upset and I always end up backing down.


Weighing in as a woman here, I can tell you that ^^THIS^^ is your problem. Now I understand why your wife not only treats you disrespectfully but gets away with it. And I call total b.s. on what she's saying in counseling.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> So how do I go about doing that?


By drawing lines on boundaries and not accepting anything that crosses any of those lines.



> Every time we’re at therapy she cries how she’s trying so hard to change and do the things I ask but she feels like I’m still unhappy and want out.


Well you are unhappy, so she ought to be right about you wanting out.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

It sucks cause if I don’t engage in it and withdraw myself she says I’m being distant and don’t love her anymore. Then she goes to therapy and tells her that she’s trying and I’m just being distant. Either she’s lying or too oblivious/selfish to see her own actions.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> So how do I go about doing that?
> 
> Every time we’re at therapy she cries how she’s trying so hard to change and do the things I ask but she feels like I’m still unhappy and want out.


Words vs. Actions. Also — her best may not be good enough. All the tears in the world can’t change that.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> It sucks cause if I don’t engage in it and withdraw myself she says I’m being distant and don’t love her anymore. Then she goes to therapy and tells her that she’s trying and I’m just being distant. Either she’s lying or too oblivious/selfish to see her own actions.


Stop operating in HER frame. 
Stop reacting to her. 
Stop letting her control the narrative.
Stop letting her control your marital dynamic.

Start operating in your own frame. 
Start establishing the boundaries and expectations that YOU want, and start acting accordingly.

I don’t know how many different ways we can keep saying this.
Are you just here to whine and wallow in your misery? 
Or do you actually want to DO something to improve yourself and your situation?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Stop operating in HER frame.
> Stop reacting to her.
> Stop letting her control the narrative.
> Stop letting her control your marital dynamic.
> ...


Truthfully I know I’d be happier on my own. There’s also a beautiful, intelligent kind girl set work that adores me and my son. Would love to see where that goes…


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> Would love to see where that goes…


In the long run, probably the same way as it's going with your wife. Since those who will let a partner walk all over them, have a tendency to often do exactly the same with subsequent partners.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Truthfully I know I’d be happier on my own. There’s also a beautiful, intelligent kind girl set work that adores me and my son. Would love to see where that goes…


So did all these issues with your wife surface before or after you found out you had a chance with the girl at work?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Truthfully I know I’d be happier on my own. There’s also a beautiful, intelligent kind girl set work that adores me and my son. Would love to see where that goes…


What does that have to do with anything we’re talking about here?
You are as much (or more) of the problem as your wife. And you need to fix that.
You’re not ready for a new relationship. You won’t be ready for anything else until you’ve seriously worked on yourself.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> What does that have to do with anything we’re talking about here?
> You are as much (or more) of the problem as your wife. And you need to fix that.
> You’re not ready for a new relationship. You won’t be ready for anything else until you’ve seriously worked on yourself.


Because my wife is selfish by nature and takes advantage of my kindness where this other woman just treats me how I deserve without question.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So did all these issues with your wife surface before or after you found out you had a chance with the girl at work?


These issues have been going on for years. It’s only after in took a look at the relationship when my son was born that I said what the heck am I doing to myself?

This other woman just happens to treat me well without a thought otherwise.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Because my wife is selfish by nature and takes advantage of my kindness where this other woman just treats me how I deserve without question.


How long have you been seeing the new woman?


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

FloridaPool said:


> Truthfully I know I’d be happier on my own. There’s also a beautiful, intelligent kind girl set work that adores me and my son. Would love to see where that goes…


Turn this off, so that you can evaluate your marriage more objectively.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> How long have you been seeing the new woman?


I don’t see her like that, she’s a co worker that quickly became a good friend. We talk a lot and have the same friends at work so I just hear from others how she feels.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> I don’t see her like that, she’s a co worker that quickly became a good friend. We talk a lot and have the same friends at work so I just hear from others how she feels.


So you don't have any actual experience dating this new woman and are assuming she'd be more subservient than your wife. As for seeing her "like that," you clearly do because you're actively comparing her to your wife.

I'm not saying your wife is in the right, maybe she is difficult. Maybe you were poorly matched. But let's call it what it is. You are interested in someone else and everything you DON'T like about your wife is amplified in the face of this new possibility. Up to and including idealizing this new woman. We call that "monkey branching."


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you don't have any actual experience dating this new woman and are assuming she'd be more subservient than your wife. As for seeing her "like that," you clearly do because you're actively comparing her to your wife.
> 
> I'm not saying your wife is in the right, maybe she is difficult. Maybe you were poorly matched. But let's call it what it is. You are interested in someone else and everything you DON'T like about your wife is amplified in the face of this new possibility. Up to and including idealizing this new woman. We call that "monkey branching."


I’ve said I need out of my marriage for years before I met anyone.

I also meant don’t see her in that way like I’m not “seeing her” as in dating her.

Not more subservient. Not looking for a servant just an equal partner. I know how this other woman is with kids and I know how she is the complete opposite of my wife and very supportive and helpful when I come to her with an issue. It’s more her nature and personality.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Because my wife is selfish by nature and takes advantage of my kindness where this other woman just treats me how I deserve without question.


You still don’t understand.
Or just refusing to accept that you are the problem.
It’s not just your wife, it’s you. Yes, your wife is exploiting your passiveness, weakness and lack of leadership, but you are the core problem here.

By your own admission (as well as being clear from your posts ), you are passive, conflict averse and a doormat. You need to fix that, or any future relationship you have will likely end up right where this one is, more or less. 
Because all women lose respect for passive, weak men who they can push around and don’t stand up for themselves.
Until you fix that, you will always end up in a similar situation to where you are now.

It’s not just her, it’s you. You need to improve you.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Simple, by growing a pair. Otherwise, carry on with the same old, same old.


I think we can do better than posts like this which are trite and piling on, even though it's frustrating to read multiple scenarios where the OP is unable or unwilling to see his way out of the situation and change his behavior to achieve a different outcome. I was exhausted reading the recap of this one particular day. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to actually live this. When people don't step up to change or exit what they experience as an unpleasant situation, it raises the question of: what's the payoff? While many of us look at his situation with unalloyed horror and think, "dude, run for the hills," he gets something he perceives to be valuable out of it being the way that it is.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

hub49 said:


> I think we can do better than posts like this which are trite and piling on, even though it's frustrating to read multiple scenarios where the OP is unable or unwilling to see his way out of the situation and change his behavior to achieve a different outcome. I was exhausted reading the recap of this one particular day. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to actually live this. When people don't step up to change or exit what they experience as an unpleasant situation, it raises the question of: what's the payoff? While many of us look at his situation with unalloyed horror and think, "dude, run for the hills," he gets something he perceives to be valuable out of it being the way that it is.


What I get out of it I guess is I’m afraid to break up my family and afraid to tell my wife I want a divorce because it will crush her.

Also I fear I’ll have made a mistake as we once did have a lot of fun together and were very in love.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> I’ve said I need out of my marriage for years before I met anyone.
> 
> I also meant don’t see her in that way like I’m not “seeing her” as in dating her.
> 
> Not more subservient. Not looking for a servant just an equal partner. I know how this other woman is with kids and I know how she is the complete opposite of my wife and very supportive and helpful when I come to her with an issue. It’s more her nature and personality.


You have wanted out “for years” and yet you had a baby with her. Explain please.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Bluesclues said:


> You have wanted out “for years” and yet you had a baby with her. Explain please.


Obviously there’s been good moments and periods of time where things have been much better.

But there’s also been moments where she acts like I’ve referenced and I say to myself what the hell am I doing? I can’t be dealing with this for my whole life.

Things have also gotten much more complicated and difficult since the baby which has made me more aware of the issues present.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The idea of the woman at work waiting to move into the lives of you and your son is no doubt appealing. Especially since your son is so young he won’t remember things any other way. But don’t focus on that, or any middle school tales about how much she likes you, until you get divorced — if you do.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

FloridaPool said:


> What I get out of it I guess is I’m afraid to break up my family and afraid to tell my wife I want a divorce because it will crush her.


In the meantime, her behavior is crushing you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

hub49 said:


> In the meantime, her behavior is crushing you.


Fixed it for you: In the meantime your (@FloridaPool) behaviour is what is actually enabling and facilitating your misery.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Fixed it for you: In the meantime your (@FloridaPool) behaviour is what is actually enabling and facilitating your misery.


Genuinely curious how this particular day could have been handled differently so that I can work on implementing that in the future.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I know which sucks. I really felt like she was trying. All week she was helping more around the house, thanking me for things, complimenting me and sending me old photos of us when we first started dating or just happier days in general.
> 
> Every time she thinks I’m gonna leave she breaks down sobbing about how she’s so scared to lose me and has to do better as a wife and a mother. It’s just getting exhausting.


That is because she has been conditioned that if she turns on the drama and modifies her behavior for brief intervals, you will back down, and she achieves her desired objective: The status quo.

Behavior modification should be your goal. Shock and awe can be your friend. Plan what it looks like for you and implement it.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Tdbo said:


> That is because she has been conditioned that if she turns on the drama and modifies her behavior for brief intervals, you will back down, and she achieves her desired objective: The status quo.
> 
> Behavior modification should be your goal. Shock and awe can be your friend. Plan what it looks like for you and implement it.


It’s crazy because that’s how she operates with everyone including her own parents. Not sure I’ll be able to break that cycle.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Fixed it for you: In the meantime your (@FloridaPool) behaviour is what is actually enabling and facilitating your misery.


Correct. I had taken him to task elsewhere and didn't feel the need to do it again. Hopefully, he grasps what we are telling him. When everyone is saying the same thing, you can't not pay attention.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Your wife is stressed out - full time job and toddler - rightly or wrongly. People have different responses to stress. It's good you are going to therapy. Leave the other woman alone and focus on yourself and your marriage.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Your wife is stressed out - full time job and toddler - rightly or wrongly. People have different responses to stress. It's good you are going to therapy. Leave the other woman alone and focus on yourself and your marriage.


My full time and part time job plus my being responsible for all toddler duties isn’t feeling much sympathy for her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> My full time and part time job plus my being responsible for all toddler duties isn’t feeling much sympathy for her.


Are you really doing ALL toddler duties? Your wife doesn’t seem very well, so try to understand instead of antagonising, even if it seems that she’s being unreasonable. If I got it all wrong, I would suggest you divorce your unbearable wife. 

Was she like this before the baby?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Are you really doing ALL toddler duties? Your wife doesn’t seem very well, so try to understand instead of antagonising, even if it seems that she’s being unreasonable. If I got it all wrong, I would suggest you divorce your unbearable wife.
> 
> Was she like this before the baby?


She has struggled to bond with the baby since birth and I spent the first year of his life as primary caregiver while working.

She has since been better with him and tries to help where she can but gets easily frustrated so I usually take over.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> She has struggled to bond with the baby since birth and I spent the first year of his life as primary caregiver while working.
> 
> She has since been better with him and tries to help where she can but gets easily frustrated so I usually take over.


Sounds like post-partum depression to me. Was your wife exhibiting this behaviour _before_ the baby?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds like post-partum depression to me. Was your wife exhibiting this behaviour _before_ the baby?


She’s always been selfish and struggled to respect my needs but I’ve also enabled it in not speaking up. Just now I’m feeling it more with the added responsibility of a child.

All she does is complain I’m too busy with our Son to make time for her. When I do she’s satisfied but I don’t feel the same way about her anymore due to the resentment and frustration.

i end up feeling like we are dating again and when I think about how she is and everything that’s happened I would not like to take that person on a second date but here I am married to her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> She’s always been selfish and struggled to respect my needs but I’ve also enabled it in not speaking up. Just now I’m feeling it more with the added responsibility of a child.
> 
> All she does is complain I’m too busy with our Son to make time for her. When I do she’s satisfied but I don’t feel the same way about her anymore due to the resentment and frustration.


I am going to ask a bit of a harsh question... if she's always been like this, why did you marry her and why did you have a baby with her? I mean, I can't really imagine marrying a person like your wife. She would drive me crazy after 5 minutes. I hope I haven't offended you. It wasn't my intention. I'm trying to understand the dynamics.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If nothing changes, nothing changes. Sounds like you told her what you expect, you got tears and promises and no follow up. You say you wouldn't date her, you'd rather date this woman at work. You've already left mentally, there's nothing remaining but the actual doing of it. At this point, you're just wasting everyone's time.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If nothing changes, nothing changes. Sounds like you told her what you expect, you got tears and promises and no follow up. You say you wouldn't date her, you'd rather date this woman at work. You've already left mentally, there's nothing remaining but the actual doing of it. At this point, you're just wasting everyone's time.


You are spot on @texasmom....


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I am going to ask a bit of a harsh question... if she's always been like this, why did you marry her and why did you have a baby with her? I mean, I can't really imagine marrying a person like your wife. She would drive me crazy after 5 minutes. I hope I haven't offended you. It wasn't my intention. I'm trying to understand the dynamics.


So to be fair I was a few months off of a bad breakup and was excited with someone wanting me. I was obviously attracted to her physically and she was on her best behavior at the start of the relationship. As time went on I compromised my needs to keep her happy and now I think I’m at a different stage in life now that I have a child and I’m 7 years older. My expectations/needs have changed from wanting to be desired to needing a partner.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> So to be fair I was a few months off of a bad breakup and was excited with someone wanting me. I was obviously attracted to her physically and she was on her best behavior at the start of the relationship. As time went on I compromised my needs to keep her happy and now I think I’m at a different stage in life now that I have a child and I’m 7 years older. My expectations/needs have changed from wanting to be desired to needing a partner.


So you changed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> So to be fair I was a few months off of a bad breakup and was excited with someone wanting me. I was obviously attracted to her physically and she was on her best behavior at the start of the relationship. As time went on I compromised my needs to keep her happy and now I think I’m at a different stage in life now that I have a child and I’m 7 years older. My expectations/needs have changed from wanting to be desired to needing a partner.


Ok, thanks for that… makes sense… you went along, then you changed and now you are blaming your wife… ☺


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If nothing changes, nothing changes. Sounds like you told her what you expect, you got tears and promises and no follow up. You say you wouldn't date her, you'd rather date this woman at work. You've already left mentally, there's nothing remaining but the actual doing of it. At this point, you're just wasting everyone's time.


I agree - this post is on target! If you stayed with your wife and things didn't improve (I don't see her personality changing much) and you didn't date this woman at work you are currently eyeing, there would be someone else and you'd be constantly tempted to jump ship. Dating someone else is fine; just try not to shop for mates where you work. The potential for that blowing up in your face is very high.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you changed.


Grew up I’d say, I’m still the loving caring guy I’ve always been but I’m looking for a partner not a master.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Ok, thanks for that… makes sense… you went along, then you changed and now you are blaming your wife… ☺


Not blaming her, I guess I just grew up and circumstances changed so I need a partner not a master.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Not everyone can or will change. And not everyone is good with children or with being an acceptable partner. You should have gotten out when it was easier but you chose not to. That means now you have to decide whether you can spend the rest of your life this way. My guess is you’d very much like to divorce her — if she would cooperate with that — and see if you can make it work with the woman at work. But in time she may prove to be not a better candidate long-term than the one you’re with now. Keep in mind that sooner or later an unhappy marriage makes many susceptible to an affair. Some think they will never cheat but eventually they do. I was married to one of those.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Livvie said:


> No. I think you should read OP's other thread.
> 
> OP and the child would be much happier and healthier if these two divorced.


I was only responding to what the OP posted in this thread.

If the OP wanted to add other information to get better advice than they should have included it.

Since you know more about the OP's story, I will assume you know more and have better advice.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Not blaming her, I guess I just grew up and circumstances changed so I need a partner not a master.


Yeah, characterize it any way you like. Brass tax, what you want has changed. She has not changed. Therefore, for you to ask her to become something she isn't because you are not who you were is unrealistic. It is not on her to become this "new" woman that you want simply because you've changed your mind. Reverse the sexes and imagine a woman asking a man to become something else because she changed her mind. It's an absurd ask. 

The answer here is simple (not easy, simple). You have to either make do as is with the deal you made or break the contract. Again, nothing changes if nothing changes. Your wife will not suddenly morph into the lady at your work. You're going to have to DO something, because you are the one who changed.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FloridaPool said:


> I know which sucks. I really felt like she was trying. All week she was helping more around the house, thanking me for things, complimenting me and sending me old photos of us when we first started dating or just happier days in general.
> 
> Every time she thinks I’m gonna leave she breaks down sobbing about how she’s so scared to lose me and has to do better as a wife and a mother. It’s just getting exhausting.


Perhaps you can help her achieve the changes she wants through positive feedback.

Have you told her how proud you are of the changes she is trying to make? Have you thanked her and given her positive feedback (flowers, presents, dinner out, etc.) for the changes she has been making? Positive feedback is an important way to help someone trying to change. 

The Sex Therapist who helped save my marriage. Helped us learn about visualization and self-hypnosis or affirmations are important change agents. Spending time with your spouse looking at those old pictures and visualizing how happy you were, discussing it as a way of affirming how happy you can be is important feedback that can help your W feel good about change.

Also sitting down and using those photos to talk about the future you both want can help you visualize what you marriage could be in 5, 10, 15 years and how happy that would make both of you.

While you can't change her, you can play an important role in supporting her changes and motivation.

Good luck.

I have no idea until I read UWE.Blab's post that the OP has already lined up another woman. No wonder the OP's wife feels he is going to leave her. She probably knows all about what is going on. Wives tend to be able to read body language, facial expressions and tone of voice signals. This seems to change everything as the OP is not fully committed to his marriage anymore.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FloridaPool said:


> It sucks cause if I don’t engage in it and withdraw myself she says I’m being distant and don’t love her anymore. Then she goes to therapy and tells her that she’s trying and I’m just being distant. Either she’s lying or too oblivious/selfish to see her own actions.


Have you asked the therapist about specific things you can do to change yourself so that your wife doesn't feel you are being distant?

Have you asked your wife and talked to her about ways she can signal you in a non-confrontational way when she feels you are too distant.

Perhaps she can say "Honey, I love you to pieces, but I seem to have done something to make you withdraw from me. If I have, I apologize. Can we take a couple of minutes to individually reflect upon our own actions and then talk about how we can make each other feel emotionally closer?"

An important concept we learned at a Gottmans Art and Science of Love weekend was that sometimes we get emotionally flooded. This is when your adrenaline kicks in and you are "fight or flight" mode. In this state you can't really think and discuss things rationally, you brain is too flooded with adrenaline. What needs to happen is that whoever is emotionally flooded needs to take a "time out" to calm down, let the adrenaline work through their system and regain their ability to rationally discuss the situation. You and your wife might want to read up on emotional flooding, as when she breaks down sobbing about her fear of loosing you, might be her in an emotionally flooded state. Talk to your therapist about it.

When my wife and I were working to save our marriage, I eventually learned that I was part of the problem and that it generally takes two to both make or destroy a marriage. It was hard to learn that I was not a victim. I had to apologize for what my wife viewed as what I had done wrong, and make changes in my behavior toward her, before she felt comfortable in admitting her mistakes and working on changing herself.

Good luck. the therapy may help.

*I have no idea until I read UWE.Blab's post that the OP has already lined up another woman. No wonder the OP's wife feels he is going to leave her. She probably knows all about what is going on. Wives tend to be able to read body language, facial expressions and tone of voice signals. This seems to change everything as the OP is not fully committed to his marriage anymore.*


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I’ve said I need out of my marriage for years before I met anyone.
> 
> I also meant don’t see her in that way like I’m not “seeing her” as in dating her.
> 
> Not more subservient. Not looking for a servant just an equal partner. I know how this other woman is with kids and I know how she is the complete opposite of my wife and very supportive and helpful when I come to her with an issue. It’s more her nature and personality.


So you are in an emotional affair, we find out well into the discussion....

And way you write about the OW, looks like you are into, or getting into, the fog.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

hub49 said:


> think we can do better than posts like this which are trite and piling on, even though it's frustrating to read multiple scenarios where the OP is unable or unwilling to see his way out of the situation and change his behavior to achieve a different outcome.


First, if you've have read his other threads then you know that he's been going at the same issued for sometime. Have had enough input to consider. He's in a merry-go-round of indecision to do what he wants to do. 2x4's are necessary sometime, to see if the OP will wake up, get out it, and/or jiggle his brain into action. There was nothing trite about my reply, it was intended, based an all things exposed on the three threads he has so far created .

Second, if you check my previous post to him, they have been nothing but check and balances for him to consider (to no avail), hence to 2x4 now.



hub49 said:


> he gets something he perceives to be valuable out of it being the way that it is.


although I don't have a crystal ball, I can bet that it is not that he is perceiving something valuable stay, but sheer fear and lack of courage to do what he knows he want to do.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> So to be fair I was a few months off of a bad breakup and was excited with someone wanting me. I was obviously attracted to her physically and she was on her best behavior at the start of the relationship. As time went on I compromised my needs to keep her happy and now I think I’m at a different stage in life now that I have a child and I’m 7 years older. My expectations/needs have changed from wanting to be desired to needing a partner.


It’s possible to find both. You can find a respectable partner who treats you with respect and also have chemistry.

So, you picked wrong perhaps but if it’s not working and you feel like she’s a burden rather than a partner, maybe start seeking legal advice and start discussing ending this.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Grew up I’d say, I’m still the loving caring guy I’ve always been but I’m looking for a partner not a master.


You cannot possibly have any sort of effective marriage counseling when you have this other woman on a pedestal sir. Does your wife know about this woman and how you feel about her? ( you would 'like to see where that can go'....)

What about the therapist? Is the therapist aware of this dynamic?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Wait …are you involved with another woman while you’re married? 

I didn’t think that much could change in a few pages lol


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Folks-- see post 27 where OP mentions a "beautiful girl" at work that "adores" OP and his children and he would like to "see where that could go". Not sure how that got glossed over here....


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> Folks-- see post 27 where OP mentions a "beautiful girl" at work that "adores" OP and his children and he would like to "see where that could go". Not sure how that got glossed over here....


Yes, and then see his follow-up explanations when he was questioned about that....
HE IS NOT "SEEING" HER OR CHEATING OR HAVING AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR.
He is thinking that the grass might be greener somewhere else...and based on what he's posted about how his wife behaves, he sounds like that's true.



FloridaPool said:


> I don’t see her like that, she’s a co worker that quickly became a good friend. We talk a lot and have the same friends at work so I just hear from others how she feels.





FloridaPool said:


> I’ve said I need out of my marriage for years before I met anyone.
> 
> I also meant don’t see her in that way like I’m not “seeing her” as in dating her.
> 
> Not more subservient. Not looking for a servant just an equal partner. I know how this other woman is with kids and I know how she is the complete opposite of my wife and very supportive and helpful when I come to her with an issue. It’s more her nature and personality.





FloridaPool said:


> These issues have been going on for years. It’s only after in took a look at the relationship when my son was born that I said what the heck am I doing to myself?
> 
> This other woman just happens to treat me well without a thought otherwise.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Wait …are you involved with another woman while you’re married?
> 
> I didn’t think that much could change in a few pages lol


Not involved at all. We’ve become friends through work but I recently heard through the grape vine that she would like to date me if I were single. I’ve also seen her with my son as I pick him up from daycare in our office building and she’s so kind and gentle toward him.

I’m not engaging in it just gets frustrating when I’m being treated like **** and struggling and see my son being treated the same way. Sometimes I think damn what could be?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> Not involved at all. We’ve become friends through work but I recently heard through the grape vine that she would like to date me if I were single. I’ve also seen her with my son as I pick him up from daycare in our office building and she’s so kind and gentle toward him.
> 
> I’m not engaging in it just gets frustrating when I’m being treated like **** and struggling and see my son being treated the same way. Sometimes I think damn what could be?


I get what you’re saying but before you even let your mind go there any further, you need to sort out your marriage. There are soooo many stories on here where unhappy spouses played with fire and got burned. And by burned, I mean financially ruined and lost custody of their kids.

Also, take this for what it’s worth - I’m a married woman and I wouldn’t be interested in a guy who flirts with me and tells everyone (so it gets back to me) that he would want me if I weren’t married. Don’t trust women who flirt with married men.

Figure out your marriage and if you choose to leave, then you’re free to let your mind wander. Don’t create more problems in your life.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> Not involved at all. We’ve become friends through work but I recently heard through the grape vine that she would like to date me if I were single. I’ve also seen her with my son as I pick him up from daycare in our office building and she’s so kind and gentle toward him.
> 
> I’m not engaging in it just gets frustrating when I’m being treated like **** and struggling and see my son being treated the same way. Sometimes I think damn what could be?


Well, you’re not single so why she would say it to someone and they would repeat it to you is stupid. This isn’t like middle school — or at least it shouldn’t be. You need to decide whether you want your marriage to work or not and act accordingly.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

What Deidre said is good advice.

If you’re actually done with your wife at least be honorable about it, end it, and then pursue other possibilities.

I also agree that a woman who sees a married guy with a kid and is like, “I don’t just want a piece, I want the whole thing!” maybe not so great however I realize it was qualified and brought to you second hand.

I still think if you’re not done you can maybe lay it all out there and see if she’s serious about trying to change to preserve the marriage.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Get divorced. 

Then, think about other women.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Get divorced.
> 
> Then, think about other women.


The problem with that path, is that he will just find himself back in a similar situation with the next woman. 

Because he refuses to take ownership of the situation and address his passiveness, weakness and refusal to set boundaries / expectations with his wife. That is at the core of the problem here and he continually refuses to acknowledge / address it.

He seems to think that a “better woman“ will not disrespect him and behave badly even though he is a passive doormat. 
So far he is refusing to understand that he is a big part of the problem, and that even a “better woman” will lose respect and attraction for him and treat him poorly (or leave) if he doesn’t change himself and stop being a passive, conflict-averse doormat.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@FloridaPool If your wife is frustrated because a baby of 14 months "wont listen to her" then she may well be a wife, but she's certainly not much of a mother. 

She's not treating you or the baby well. Divorce is an option to consider. With primary custody for you.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> @FloridaPool If your wife is frustrated because a baby of 14 months "wont listen to her" then she may well be a wife, but she's certainly not much of a mother.
> 
> She's not treating you or the baby well. Divorce is an option to consider. With primary custody for you.


I agree totally and she’s said that from the beginning that she’s too selfish to be a mom and I’m the better parent etc etc.

But I can see times where she’s trying with him and I know babies are stressful.

also, just this afternoon she texted me from work and asked me what “the best husband and father in the world would like for dinner “ and she picked it up on her way home.

she also came in with a thank you/apology card and my favorite iced coffee.

She’s very reactive in the moment but then often comes back down to earth crying and apologetic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@FloridaPool Have your considered parenting classes for her?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> @FloridaPool Have your considered parenting classes for her?


I could look into it. Though every time I make a suggestion or step into parenting she gets snippy and frustrated with me saying I don’t think she can handle it.

I’m also tired of the back and forth of treating me like **** one day then trying to make up for it the next.

almost mimics the cycle of abuse at this point. Tension builds up, explosion happens then the gift giving/apologies and promises to do better. One week later we’re back at it again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She doesn’t want a divorce so she tiptoes around for awhile after a blowup — until the next one. Not everyone is meant to be a parent. And the Terrible Twos are coming up along with all the rest of the difficulties of parenthood. Life with a child isn’t always easy. Don’t give her another one.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> She doesn’t want a divorce so she tiptoes around for awhile after a blowup — until the next one. Not everyone is meant to be a parent. And the Terrible Twos are coming up along with all the rest of the difficulties of parenthood. Life with a child isn’t always easy. Don’t give her another one.


The blow ups are literally only her. I’ve never lost my cool with her in 7 years of being together (4 married).

Problem is I want another baby one day…but I know I can’t do that with her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> The blow ups are literally only her. I’ve never lost my cool with her in 7 years of being together (4 married).
> 
> Problem is I want another baby one day…but I know I can’t do that with her.


No, you definitely can’t do that with her. There will always be people who tell you that having a second doesn’t really complicate things more than having one does. Don’t believe it.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> No, you definitely can’t do that with her. There will always be people who tell you that having a second doesn’t really complicate things more than having one does. Don’t believe it.


I mean that doesn’t leave me many options for this relationship lol


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> I mean that doesn’t leave me many options for this relationship lol


That’s right — it doesn’t. But you’ve already brought one innocent child into this and you see what kind of parent she is. If you stay and she doesn’t make some major changes to be a better mom, you’ll need to be one and done. I was happy only having one child but not everyone is.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> That’s right — it doesn’t. But you’ve already brought one innocent child into this and you see what kind of parent she is. If you stay and she doesn’t make some major changes to be a better mom, you’ll need to be one and done. I was happy only having one child but not everyone is.


Or it becomes an issue of values I guess and I have to do what I need to do to be happy in the one life I’ve got.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, and then see his follow-up explanations when he was questioned about that....
> HE IS NOT "SEEING" HER OR CHEATING OR HAVING AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR.
> He is thinking that the grass might be greener somewhere else...and based on what he's posted about how his wife behaves, he sounds like that's true.


Greener grass exactly. On wife's side, it's Johnson Grass everywhere! Chest deep, blades like razors and poisonous to cattle. He needs to read NMMNG stat! When he makes a change, she will or she can change addresses.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> @FloridaPool If your wife is frustrated because a baby of 14 months "wont listen to her" then she may well be a wife, but she's certainly not much of a mother.
> 
> She's not treating you or the baby well. Divorce is an option to consider. With primary custody for you.


Don't sound like she is much of a wife OR mother.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

FloridaPool said:


> *Problem is I want another baby one day…but I know I can’t do that with her.*


I was just going to post "and whatever you do, *DON'T* get her pregnant again!"


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah it’s really frustrating. I brought all my concerns up about being unappreciated and disrespected in our couples therapy last session.
> 
> She apologized and said she “never realized how careless she had been with the person she loves the most.”
> 
> ...


Youre wife doesn't sound like marriage material or mother material. I bet in a couple of years she leaves you and your son, because she has a new boyfriend and wants to be free. 

How old is your wife? 16 -20 years? She is hughly immature if she is older. 
I am certainit is jist a matter of time until she leaves her child and you for egoistic reasons.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

elliblue said:


> Youre wife doesn't sound like marriage material or mother material. I bet in a couple of years she leaves you and your son, because she has a new boyfriend and wants to be free.
> 
> How old is your wife? 16 -20 years? She is hughly immature if she is older.
> I am certainit is jist a matter of time until she leaves her child and you for egoistic reasons.


What makes you think that from what I’ve said?

also she is older than me. I’m 31 and she is 34,


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I agree totally and she’s said that from the beginning that she’s too selfish to be a mom and I’m the better parent etc etc.
> 
> But I can see times where she’s trying with him and I know babies are stressful.
> 
> ...


The problem is that everything you say is tinted by the OW. You already have your eye on wife 2. No wonder marriage counseling isn't working. No wonder she says you are 'distant'-- you are. In this post it sounds like she is making a kind gesture and that you are annoyed by it. 

If she cheated this would be much easier, huh?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> The problem is that everything you say is tinted by the OW. You already have your eye on wife 2. No wonder marriage counseling isn't working. No wonder she says you are 'distant'-- you are. In this post it sounds like she is making a kind gesture and that you are annoyed by it.
> 
> If she cheated this would be much easier, huh?


You really are determined to make this something it’s not.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> You really are determined to make this something it’s not.


You need to go no contact with this woman. You guys 'do lunch'? Get coffee together? You want to see where this will go? 

It's something. Like dating. Your wife know about this?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I can’t tell if the OP is looking for permission to cheat on his wife.

I find it implausible that in a marriage one person is perfect and the other is wholly bad and at fault for all the issues. It’s starting to sound like “My wife doesn’t understand me but my girlfriend does, I’m too awesome a guy to leave my family but don’t I deserve to be happy?” That happens a LOT, with men and with women. We call those folks cake eaters.

I could be wrong, sure. It’s happened before. It’s just that the OP seems done with his wife romantically, is dating this girl at work and doesn’t want to divorce.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I have seen this happen with a family member. Your wife does not want to take responsibility for the child or the house. Many times these men or women are just looking to the marriage as a roof over their heads. You are her financially support, she is dependent on you to take care of everything. She has probably been like this since childhood and passed on her responsibilities to her siblings growing up. You have become worn thin and can see she has no desire for you and need/want that positive vibe in your life so now other women are looking more appealing. 

You really need to sit her down and be more firm as to what you want to see in the marriage. Draw your boundaries with her. She needs to carry her part of the load and she needs to understand this.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> You really are determined to make this something it’s not.


Just ignore the posts that don't help you or that you know aren't accurate.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I agree totally and she’s said that from the beginning that she’s too selfish to be a mom and I’m the better parent etc etc.
> 
> But I can see times where she’s trying with him and I know babies are stressful.
> 
> ...


I am sure she loves you and your child as much as she can...the problem is that she sounds like her selfishness and immaturity prevents her from acting in a loving way. She is reactive because she cares about herself and her feelings more than she does about anything else.

And I am sure her gestures of apology are genuine...but at some point, they are just not enough. I used to say to my EX, "Real love to me is when you stop doing things you have to keep apologizing for". Her remorseful behavior starts to build a bridge of connection to you, but her hurtful attitude and selfish actions destroy it every time. 

It's NOT your fault that you feel badly about how she keeps taking advantage of you. She doesn't respect you, but she is AFRAID of you leaving her. Your frustration and doubt about her as a partner are CORRECT, because she will probably never change. So you have got to make a decision about whether you can live with her like this forever.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Yeah I’m not sure what some people are getting at with reading too far into things for some non existent scandal.

its a bit frustrating as we have had multiple conversations lately where I say I need a partner who can help in supporting our child and our home. I had to explain it and say look I can do the dishes while you watch the baby. I can clean the cat box while you do the laundry. Plenty of couples do it there’s no reason we can’t figure out a system.

we even went so far as to write up a schedule on a white board in the kitchen stating all the chores and who is picking the baby up what days so that it’s not always me.

I’ve seen some changes in that she will help more but it seems to be out of fear as she’s said multiple times I know you’re going to leave me if I don’t change and I’m so scared to be without you. Guess I’ll have to see and gauge how long I can continue like this.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

The wife is clearly struggling… Putting even more pressure on her won’t work.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> The wife is clearly struggling… Putting even more pressure on her won’t work.


Struggling with what? She goes to work then comes home to a house cleaned by me and a baby watched by someone else.

I myself have two jobs and handle everything but cooking dinner.

Surely the alternative can be to put even more on me until I break.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> The wife is clearly struggling… Putting even more pressure on her won’t work.


I don't see it as him putting even more pressure on her, I see it as him stating his boundaries for being his partner.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't see it as him putting even more pressure on her, I see it as him stating his boundaries for being his partner.


Believe me. It took me getting to the point of all my family asking me if I was okay every time I would see them. Asking why I’m so tired and where’s my wife? Why isn’t she picking the baby up? Why are you always doing laundry and washing the dishes when we come over? Doesn’t your Wife help?

I was falling behind at work and would sometimes show up in wrinkled clothes because I didn’t have time to do my own laundry with everything else.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't see it as him putting even more pressure on her, I see it as him stating his boundaries for being his partner.


I’m not sure how wise it is to state your boundaries when your wife is struggling. Seems unhelpful to me. But we know the husband is not going to be around for long. So maybe we should close this thread.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Believe me. It took me getting to the point of all my family asking me if I was okay every time I would see them. Asking why I’m so tired and where’s my wife? Why isn’t she picking the baby up? Why are you always doing laundry and washing the dishes when we come over? Doesn’t your Wife help?
> 
> I was falling behind at work and would sometimes show up in wrinkled clothes because I didn’t have time to do my own laundry with everything else.


Then leave.


FloridaPool said:


> Believe me. It took me getting to the point of all my family asking me if I was okay every time I would see them. Asking why I’m so tired and where’s my wife? Why isn’t she picking the baby up? Why are you always doing laundry and washing the dishes when we come over? Doesn’t your Wife help?
> 
> I was falling behind at work and would sometimes show up in wrinkled clothes because I didn’t have time to do my own laundry with everything else.


What solutions do you see for yourself?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I’m not sure how wise it is to state your boundaries when your wife is struggling. Seems unhelpful to me. But we know the husband is not going to be around for long. So maybe we should close this thread.


Unhelpful to whom?

I see it as the wife is struggling because she cannot honor or respect his boundaries while she is mainly focused on selfishly gratifying her immediate urges (to vent her anger and frustration, to put her needs first, to not have to do things that others depend on her for, to not uphold her agreements). 

Her needs shouldn't be given primary consideration when she is supposed to be a mother and a partner. If she can't handle the responsibilities of either of those roles, she doesn't deserve to be in those roles full time. AND SHE KNOWS IT. That's what scares her.

There is nothing wrong with the OP setting boundaries so that HIS needs and the needs of his child are also being considered and taken care of. We call that HEALTHY in other threads.

And why would you say we should close this thread if the OP still wants to discuss these issues?


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I’m not sure how wise it is to state your boundaries when your wife is struggling. Seems unhelpful to me. But we know the husband is not going to be around for long. So maybe we should close this thread.


I’m still not sure what you think she’s struggling with?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

After reading the entire thread, it strikes me that your wife only makes temporary changes triggered by her fear of losing you. Thus, nothing substantive is accomplished on her end. My take on it is she lacks emotional maturity. And I'd also guess part of the reason she'd have a meltdown if you left is she'd be left having to perform all the tasks you currently do. 

From what you've said thus far, I don't see this having a happy ending.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaPool said:


> I’m still not sure what you think she’s struggling with?


Life. She’s struggling with life — specifically being a mom (IMO). Some women do kinda/sorta manage okay before they have a child but they aren’t really parent material. Most don’t realize that they aren’t until it’s too late. That’s why you should never have another child with her unless she somehow manages to turn all this around. Right now, her (temporary) change is apparently motivated by the fear that you’ll leave her and not because she truly wants to be a better wife and mom.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Life. She’s struggling with life — specifically being a mom (IMO). Some women do kinda/sorta manage okay before they have a child but they aren’t really parent material. Most don’t realize that they aren’t until it’s too late. That’s why you should never have another child with her unless she somehow manages to turn all this around. Right now, her (temporary) change is apparently motivated by the fear that you’ll leave her and not because she truly wants to be a better wife and mom.


Ah okay that I can definitely agree with and understand.

she continually says I need to be a better mom, I need to be a better wife or you’re going to leave. I need to be nicer to you or you’re gonna leave.

then she has a reactive behavior where she reverts back to herself after a week or so of trying and then comes with a big apology again for fear of losing me.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Ah okay that I can definitely agree with and understand.
> 
> she continually says I need to be a better mom, I need to be a better wife or you’re going to leave. I need to be nicer to you or you’re gonna leave.
> 
> then she has a reactive behavior where she reverts back to herself after a week or so of trying and then comes with a big apology again for fear of losing me.


She?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> She?


Yes. I have voiced certain frustrations with being exhausted with all the responsibility in therapy and she seems to hear it then panic.

my wife is a she.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I’m not sure how wise it is to state your boundaries when your wife is struggling. Seems unhelpful to me. But we know the husband is not going to be around for long. So maybe we should close this thread.


It sounds like these are two women in a relationship.
Or I missed something which is possible.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CountryMike said:


> It sounds like these are two women in a relationship.
> Or I missed something which is possible.


You missed something... @FloridaPool is a GUY...Lol!!


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> You missed [email protected] is a GUY...Lol!!


Thanks!


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> It sounds like these are two women in a relationship.
> Or I missed something which is possible.


Maybe I’m the one missing something here. What do you mean?


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> You missed something... @FloridaPool is a GUY...Lol!!


I’m not sure if you saw my other threads about her behavior including when I discovered her still being in contact with an ex through social media or when I saw a text on her phone that a doctor at her work complemented her and she texted her friend to say she was “damp” because of it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Maybe I’m the one missing something here. What do you mean?


He thought you were a woman, and a lesbian. I corrected him that you are a MALE.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaPool said:


> I’m not sure if you saw my other threads about her behavior including when I discovered her still being in contact with an ex through social media or when I saw a text on her phone that a doctor at her work complemented her and she texted her friend to say she was “damp” because of it.


Bleh…


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Unhelpful to whom?


The marriage and the child.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> Struggling with what? She goes to work then comes home to a house cleaned by me and a baby watched by someone else.
> 
> I myself have two jobs and handle everything but cooking dinner.
> 
> Surely the alternative can be to put even more on me until I break.


Are you saying she is doing it on purpose? If so, stop doing what you are doing.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Bleh…


Yeah that was my feeling exactly. Can’t really unsee that one.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah that was my feeling exactly. Can’t really unsee that one.


Sort of begs the question as to why you are still there.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sort of begs the question as to why you are still there.


I’m not sure. I’ve struggled with trying to be okay with it. She removed the ex on social media and kept telling me she didn’t mean what she said to her friend but idk if I’ll get over it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> I’m not sure. I’ve struggled with trying to be okay with it. She removed the ex on social media and kept telling me she didn’t mean what she said to her friend but idk if I’ll get over it.


It doesn’t sound like you’re over it. And that’s ok, you don’t need to get over it. If it bothers you, it bothers you. Especially piled on all the other stuff.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

FloridaPool said:


> It sucks cause if I don’t engage in it and withdraw myself she says I’m being distant and don’t love her anymore. Then she goes to therapy and tells her that she’s trying and I’m just being distant. Either she’s lying or too oblivious/selfish to see her own actions.


From what I’ve seen about all you accomplish with a lot of counselors is paying for their kids college fund.
Kids especially newborns change everything. You should do your part and expect your wife to do the same.
No one is gonna fix your problems for you. Until you figure that out nothing will change.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It doesn’t sound like you’re over it. And that’s ok, you don’t need to get over it. If it bothers you, it bothers you. Especially piled on all the other stuff.


Let’s just say it all happened after we had a conversation prompted by her that she felt neglected in the relationship because all my focus went to the baby once he was born.

i thought I was just being a good dad.

then I discovered her liking all her exs stuff on social media since we started dating. Including shirtless photos and commenting on things like him opening a new restaurant saying “congrats I can’t wait to try it!”

then I saw her comment about the doctor at work that she obviously finds attractive. Though he’s married with 2 kids so I tried to brush it off as “girl talk.”

i tried in spite of it to get us back into therapy to work on things, started taking her on dates on the weekends while my parents watched the baby and I tried really hard to fix things. Everything was great for a month or two. but…I haven’t felt the same about her since.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Let’s just say it all happened after we had a conversation prompted by her that she felt neglected in the relationship because all my focus went to the baby once he was born.
> 
> i thought I was just being a good dad.
> 
> ...


Trust is a delicate thing. This explains why you noticed the lady at work, why all the things are bugging you, why your heart really isn’t in this any more. No wonder. I’m sorry, you have a tough road ahead. It will be better when it’s done, I think you’ll be relieved and much happier.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Trust is a delicate thing. This explains why you noticed the lady at work, why all the things are bugging you, why your heart really isn’t in this any more. No wonder. I’m sorry, you have a tough road ahead. It will be better when it’s done, I think you’ll be relieved and much happier.


What do you mean by when it’s done? At this point I don’t know which direction I’m going.

the mental seesaw is exhausting.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> What do you mean by when it’s done? At this point I don’t know which direction I’m going.
> 
> the mental seesaw is exhausting.


I think you’ll eventually leave. I think that will be for the best. All the other stuff, the selfishness, the entitlement, maybe those things could be overcome. But the whole “girl talk” (been a “girl” for half a century, not really on board with that) combines with exes on Facebook, I dunno. If you can get past it, great, but if not no one will blame you.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think you’ll eventually leave. I think that will be for the best. All the other stuff, the selfishness, the entitlement, maybe those things could be overcome. But the whole “girl talk” (been a “girl” for half a century, not really on board with that) combines with exes on Facebook, I dunno. If you can get past it, great, but if not no one will blame you.


Yeah I kinda agree which sucks cause I know that’s where her distant comments come from as she can tell I’m not the same with her anymore.

i just have a lot of guilt about leaving I’ve gotta process I guess.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Does your wife suffer from depression?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Does your wife suffer from depression?


Post partum I believe so. But she stopped her medication on her own and refuses to call a therapist for herself even though our couples counselor gave he a name.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> Post partum I believe so.


Ding 🛎, that explains her behaviour then. I’m not saying you have to stay married to her because of it at all. Yet that’s what’s going on here.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Post partum I believe so. But she stopped her medication on her own and refuses to call a therapist for herself even though our couples counselor gave he a name.


These are her mistakes. She is a grown woman and you are not responsible for her bad choices.

I know you feel bad but my grandmother used to say you do the best that you can for as long as you can, and then you save yourself. You decide when.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> These are her mistakes. She is a grown woman and you are not responsible for her bad choices.
> 
> I know you feel bad but my grandmother used to say you do the best that you can for as long as you can, and then you save yourself. You decide when.


A lot of people would try to tell me that I was being insecure and that her comments to her ex were no big deal.

even her, she got mad at me when I brought it up and told me I was being ridiculous as it was so long ago and they only went on a few dates one summer.

i told her I just wanted to talk about it and I understand exs can still wish each other well/don’t need to be enemies if things ended on okay terms but she wouldn’t even make eye contact with me and said I was making her uncomfortable discussing it.

even when I said I just want a future with her and want to make sure the past doesn’t get in the way of that. She said “if you keep bringing up my past and making me feel like I need to defend myself for having a life before you there might not be a future.”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> A lot of people would try to tell me that I was being insecure and that her comments to her ex were no big deal.
> 
> even her, she got mad at me when I brought it up and told me I was being ridiculous as it was so long ago and they only went on a few dates one summer.
> 
> ...


But what is bugging you isn’t in her past. Those things happened when you guys were together.

If everything between you were fine, those individual things by themselves wouldn’t be enough to get upset. They probably wouldn’t have bothered you. But those things didn’t happen in a vacuum.

No one has the right to tell you how to feel. That is up to you.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> But what is bugging you isn’t in her past. Those things happened when you guys were together.
> 
> If everything between you were fine, those individual things by themselves wouldn’t be enough to get upset. They prpbably wouldn’t have bothered you. But those things didn’t happen in a vacuum.
> 
> No one has the right to tell you how to feel. That is up to you.


It sucks because I don’t feel excited to see her or share my life so she notices it.

today I came home tired and had a long day so I was not my usual self. She asked if I was okay/wanted to talk. I said I just need a minute.

Later on, she goes to bed at 9:30 and lays down to watch twilight for the umpteenth time this week.

She then texts me if I want to come talk I can come talk to her.

i come up and lay down next to her.

She proceeds to just watch her movie and then put on the next in the series. Itook my glasses off and rolled over because I’ve already done the good boyfriend thing and watched them all and I’m tired.

she just stayed on her side of the bed and would routinely sigh before she just said she was gonna go watch themdownstairs sounding annoyed.

i gave her a kiss and told her she could watch them upstairs but she insisted she wasn’t tired and would let me sleep.

She even took her pillow “in case” she falls asleep. I said just come up if you get tired and she kinda scoffed and said yeah we’ll see.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> She asked if I was okay/wanted to talk. I said I just need a minute.


So in the first instance, you don't want to talk to her when she asks.

She then affords you space.



FloridaPool said:


> She then texts me if I want to come talk I can come talk to her.


And then asks you again to talk.



> i come up and lay down next to her.
> 
> She proceeds to just watch her movie and then put on the next in the series. Itook my glasses off and rolled over because I’ve already done the good boyfriend thing and watched them all and I’m tired.
> 
> ...


Yet you don't come up to talk at all, you go up there say nothing and wait for her to take the lead. All despite her twice asking you to talk.

Your being passive and passive aggressive on top of playing games does you know favours.

You are an enormous part of your own problems.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Personal said:


> So in the first instance, you don't want to talk to her when she asks.
> 
> She then affords you space.
> 
> ...


I don’t have anything to talk about. I don’t feel connected to her with a wall of **** between us.

i Also told her I didn’t need to talk earlier just needed to be left alone for a minute.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> I don’t have anything to talk about. I don’t feel connected to her with a wall of **** between us.


So you're just playing manipulative games with a woman who has depression.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Personal said:


> So you're just playing manipulative games with a woman who has depression.


So because she had trouble adapting to being a mother I can’t be affected by anything that’s happened or have my own independent emotions?

she also has claimed to be over it for months after I tried to get her to reconsider medication and therapy countless times. Says she’s fine now and likes this stage with the baby more since he sleeps through the night.

I spent The first 11 months of my sons life consoling her, researching and counseling her. Pacing our apartment complex parking lot at 11pm calling a therapist for her because of the statements she was making and then to find out the other stuff on top of it while I was doing all I could and some?

there was no manipulative game. i was tired so I changed and laid down on the couch and just said I needed a minute to relax but hadnothing to talk about.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> So because she had trouble adapting to being a mother I can’t be affected by anything that’s happened or have my own independent emotions?
> 
> I spent The first 11 months of my sons life consoling her, researching and counseling her. Pacing our apartment complex parking lot at 11pm calling a therapist for her because of the statements she was making and then to find out the other stuff on top of it while I was doing all I could and some?



Your wife who suffers from post-natal depression, didn't choose to get sick to inconvenience you.

That said if you don't want to help her and stay married to her then get a divorce, there's nothing wrong with that choice. On the other hand, your playing games with her, being passive aggressive and going out of your way to hurt her doesn't make you a good guy.

So please do your wife a favour and get a divorce, since she deserves better than what you're doing to her.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Your wife who suffers from post-natal depression, didn't choose to get sick to inconvenience you.
> 
> That said if you don't want to help her and stay married to her then get a divorce, there's nothing wrong with that choice. On the other hand, your playing games with her, being passive aggressive and going out of your way to hurt her doesn't make you a good guy.
> 
> So please do your wife a favour and get a divorce, since she deserves better than what you're doing to her.


Deserves better than someone being hurt by her actions that she still won’t acknowledge or validate/respect her partner on..I’m sure she closely followed her ex boyfriend on social media and talked to her co worker about a doctor turning her on out of respect for me and all I do.

better than someone who is just tired and doesn’t want to talk but spent the morning today just holding her saying it’s okay if you don’t want to talk about why you’re stressed I just want you to know I’m here if you want to talk or don’t?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Ding 🛎, that explains her behaviour then. I’m not saying you have to stay married to her because of it at all. Yet that’s what’s going on here.


I have mentioned this, but it's been brushed off. Like it doesn't matter, it's not that, she is a spiteful biatch.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> Deserves better than someone being hurt by her actions that she still won’t acknowledge or validate/respect her partner on..I’m sure she closely followed her ex boyfriend on social media and talked to her co worker about a doctor turning her on out of respect for me and all I do.
> 
> better than someone who is just tired and doesn’t want to talk but spent the morning today just holding her saying it’s okay if you don’t want to talk about why you’re stressed I just want you to know I’m here if you want to talk or don’t?


She is ill. I said this before, but you are only concentrating on your needs. Yes, you are doing everything and you don't feel appreciated. I get it. It's a tough situation, but people do get ill. At the end of the day, it's up to you if you want to stay and help her or just get out of the marriage, leaving your toddler in the hands of a depressed person. Just think about this for a minute.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I’m not sure if you saw my other threads about her behavior including when I discovered her still being in contact with an ex through social media or when I saw a text on her phone that a doctor at her work complemented her and she texted her friend to say she was “damp” because of it.


So her being in contact with an ex is a problem but you having an EA--- there's nothing to see here. Got it.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Let’s just say it all happened after we had a conversation prompted by her that she felt neglected in the relationship because all my focus went to the baby once he was born.
> 
> i thought I was just being a good dad.
> 
> ...


It's not a coincidence that the feelings went away right around the time the OW made it known she wants to date you "if [when] you were single."

Do you talk about your marriage to her? Do you two have lunches together? Does your wife know?


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> It's not a coincidence that the feelings went away right around the time the OW made it known she wants to date you "if [when] you were single."
> 
> Do you talk about your marriage to her? Do you two have lunches together? Does your wife know?


Can I have some of whatever it is you’re smoking?

You’ve created your own narrative and it’s really something.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> Can I have some of whatever it is you’re smoking?
> 
> You’ve created your own narrative and it’s really something.


FYI, the posts may get snarky if you continue to post without discussing an action plan. If you want to vent, that’s ok, but you’ll get pushback.

FWIW, the thing with the girl at work is an emotional affair. It is considerably worse that a couple of FB posts and a hurtful comment. Your wife has untreated post partum depression, if you have an affair instead of dealing with the problem at hand with your wife, that will make you the bad guy. I think you should make a decision and do something before things get more complicated.


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> FYI, the posts may get snarky if you continue to post without discussing an action plan. If you want to vent, that’s ok, but you’ll get pushback.
> 
> FWIW, the thing with the girl at work is an emotional affair. It is considerably worse that a couple of FB posts and a hurtful comment. Your wife has untreated post partum depression, if you have an affair instead of dealing with the problem at hand with your wife, that will make you the bad guy. I think you should make a decision and do something before things get more complicated.


I think as of right now my action plan is to continue with couples and my own therapy.

I’m also listening to NMMNG and will try to make my needs and concerns made clear in therapy together and gauge responses/resolutions to see where I’m at with it all on the table.

i think what really bothered me was the guy she was still connecting with was someone she dated just months before her and I started dating. When they broke up she would post all sorts of stuff about him being the one and something about how you don’t always end up with the person who lights a fire in you like you’ve never felt before.

plus the fact that she never told me about this guy and I had to find out via social media. Even when I confronted her on it she pretended she had no idea what I was talking about until I pulled my phone out and showed her the pictures.

felt like she kept an emotional affair going herself for our entire relationship.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaPool said:


> I think as of right now my action plan is to continue with couples and my own therapy.
> 
> I’m also listening to NMMNG and will try to make my needs and concerns made clear in therapy together and gauge responses/resolutions to see where I’m at with it all on the table.
> 
> ...


Well that’s too bad. I won’t respond to your posts any more, since I’m a woman, and if you’re going all NMMNG, red pill you don’t believe women have the mental capacity to have lucid or valuable thoughts.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Can I have some of whatever it is you’re smoking?
> 
> You’ve created your own narrative and it’s really something.


1) Do you talk with this woman about your wife and your marriage?
2) Do you get coffee and lunch with this woman?
3) Does your wife know?


----------



## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well that’s too bad. I won’t respond to your posts any more, since I’m a woman, and if you’re going all NMMNG, red pill you don’t believe women have the mental capacity to have lucid or valuable thoughts.


I don’t think that’s the case at all in regards to women and their ability to think and be independent and valuable.

It was suggested to me in this post so I’m listening to hear if it can help me at all.

Didn’t realize it was some red pill man vs woman thing just figured it was a guideline for establishing boundaries and healthy behaviors and reduce my people pleasing tendencies.


----------



## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> 1) Do you talk with this woman about your wife and your marriage?
> 2) Do you get coffee and lunch with this woman?
> 3) Does your wife know?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I don’t think that’s the case at all in regards to women and their ability to think and be independent and valuable.
> 
> It was suggested to me in this post so I’m listening to hear if it can help me at all.
> 
> Didn’t realize it was some red pill man vs woman thing just figured* it was a guideline for establishing boundaries and healthy behaviors and reduce my people pleasing tendencies.*


Your assessment is correct. that is exactly what it’s about.
There are two or three posters here that screech anytime they hear NMMNG, having no clue what it’s about at all.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> I think as of right now my action plan is to continue with couples and my own therapy.
> 
> *I’m also listening to NMMNG and will try to make my needs and concerns made clear in therapy together and gauge responses/resolutions to see where I’m at with it all on the table.*
> 
> ...


I think this sounds like a great plan for the situation you are in. Especially the part I bolded.

But I have to be honest, I don't see much hope here for having a loving, satisfying partnership with her. She is selfish and childish and hateful...and she doesn't care about your needs at all, and not even her own child's needs.
And I would be VERY suspicious about her feelings for her EX...she doesn't sound like she is invested in you or your marriage at all. And she is certainly not trustworthy...about anything.

You need to make a decision SOON about continuing a relationship with her, so you don't waste your time in a dead-end marriage that doesn't make you happy.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like she may have chosen you because the other guy didn’t work out. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t discover that before you had a baby with her. That happens more than you can imagine — women who do that just don’t usually tell the world if they do.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

Well coincidentally it happened when I was upset and trying very hard to work on the relationship. I was looking at her Instagram of old pictures of us and happened to find one of her and this guy together just prior to us dating. That and all the sad posts about it were a few months before her and I got together so I think she was just venting about a situation that didn’t work out as we weren’t even dating yet.

idk how I never saw those posts when we first got together. When I confronted her on it she tried to deny it saying “oh I didn’t date anyone the summer before you and I got together you must have seen a pic of me and a friend” then when I showed her the pic it was oh that was so short lived I don’t even talk to him anymore, etc.

then I did my own research since the guy was tagged and found out they do still communicate on social media and she likes damn near every picture of him. Commenting on his life accomplishments, telling him he’s such a great guy, great uncle, etc.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Women — and men — rarely advertise when they settle because that wouldn’t benefit them. But it happens a lot. Some of those marriages in time turn out okay. A lot don’t because of thoughts of the road not taken. That may or may not be the case with your wife but right now you’re in a relationship that isn’t working for you or your child. Can it be turned around is the question.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

uwe.blab said:


> REDACTED


Why are you badgering him? You aren't trying to be helpful at all...is there a reason for that?


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Why are you badgering him? You aren't trying to be helpful at all...is there a reason for that?


Idk, dude has a weird thing for me I guess. Not engaging it.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Why are you badgering him? You aren't trying to be helpful at all...is there a reason for that?


We had an interesting conversation today where she told me that she would rather not go to therapy together this weekend if that’s okay with me.

when I asked her why she said that she feels like it just sets her up for a bad week as all we do is air our grievances but don’t follow through and work on things. She said that she doesn’t like hearing all the negative things about her and having the therapist tell her she isn’t being a good partner because then she internalizes it all week and she “already doesn’t think highly of herself as a wife and partner.”

i explained to her that the only way we can work through things is talking about the difficult stuff and facing it. Just weird cause all I’ve really addressed in therapy is needing her to be more of a partner in helping around the house/with the baby and not being so reactive so that I feel comfortable coming to her with issues so we can resolve them.

i said we have poor communication skills and I feel it’s best to resolve our issues in a safe place with a neutral party. She said “I’ll correct that, I have poor communication skills, you and the therapist both say it. I’m the one who’s too reactive and too emotional who acts on her feelings and not facts.” “I know that about myself.”

i then explained to her that I also don’t always address things in a straightforward manner and feel guilty asking for my needs to be met so therefore I also have communication issues to work on as well.

She finally agreed to go back to therapy if I wanted to go but talked about how we don’t follow through with the therapist suggestions. Such as dating each other again. We had been taking turns planning dates and I had to remind her we marked a date on the calendar and it’s her turn to plan it.

she also talked about feeling like I’m closed off to her. I was honest about having been hurt by things that have happened and how I did not get there overnight but that I agree I am a little guarded for my own sake but am open to discussing my feelings in hopes we can resolve them.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

She talks a good game when she feels that she needs to but there is no follow through.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Does the therapist know about her post-partum depression?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Does the therapist know about her post-partum depression?


I'm pretty sure she must, since she has her own individual therapist and was being medicated (but took herself off).


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm pretty sure she must, since she has her own individual therapist and was being medicated (but took herself off).


Yes the therapist knows as she saw us before having a child for over a year where we processed my wife’s childhood together and her fears about being a good Mother. She was also the one I called at 11pm while pacing the apartment complex parking lot begging her to help me get my wife some help. She has also offered my wife the name of an individual therapist that she has not followed up with and is aware that she has stopped her medication but has been urging her to then do other things to help herself if she won’t resume medication. (Exercise, journaling, etc.)

my fear seems to be that when it comes to my feelings and my concerns it seems that my wife sees it as an attack on her character or ability to be a good partner as opposed to an opportunity to hear her partner out and work on the marriage.

then she flips it on me to say she knows I’m going to leave her when she is the one trying to not go to therapy because work has to be done. Like yes, if things don’t improve I’ve said I’m not happy so what would you expect?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> Yes the therapist knows as she saw us before having a child for over a year where we processed my wife’s childhood together and her fears about being a good Mother. She was also the one I called at 11pm while pacing the apartment complex parking lot begging her to help me get my wife some help. She has also offered my wife the name of an individual therapist that she has not followed up with and is aware that she has stopped her medication but has been urging her to then do other things to help herself if she won’t resume medication. (Exercise, journaling, etc.)
> 
> my fear seems to be that when it comes to my feelings and my concerns it seems that my wife sees it as an attack on her character or ability to be a good partner as opposed to an opportunity to hear her partner out and work on the marriage.
> 
> then she flips it on me to say she knows I’m going to leave her when she is the one trying to not go to therapy because work has to be done. Like yes, if things don’t improve I’ve said I’m not happy so what would you expect?


Sounds familiar, unfortunately 🙁


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds familiar, unfortunately 🙁


What do you mean?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaPool said:


> What do you mean?


My wife’s had mental issues for the last 20 years of our marriage and it’s not easy. At least your wife is communicating. I’ve been there, doing everything and with a few kids. It’s exhausting and I get you, but you have to remember she is not well. She's focussing on that in her head, probably without realising it.


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## FloridaPool (8 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> My wife’s had mental issues for the last 20 years of our marriage and it’s not easy. At least your wife is communicating. I’ve been there, doing everything and with a few kids. It’s exhausting and I get you, but you have to remember she is not well. She's focussing on that in her head, probably without realising it.


Ah my condolences. Now I understand why you are so persistent about the mental health portion of the story. Sincerely hope things get better for both of you. You’re a good guy for being so understanding.


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## May16 (5 mo ago)

Hi, your situation is not easy. It would be helpful if you make a step by step strategy. Admiring other women and comparing them to your wife will not help. if you want to save your relationship, please just ignore other women. I say this from experience. I went thru many difficulties in my marriage, my husband behaved sort of like your wife. I would have quickly found a lover if I did not focus on my husband solely.

let me make a few points about the woman at work (me being the naturally kind woman who likes all children, not just mine):

1) women are always kind to children whom they encounter for the first time. its just in our genes. it may seem we are even kinder to other children than our own, though we love our the most.

2) a good hearted woman would NEVER let herself be heard to want a married man. she is selfish in doing that. I was that nice young girl at work and knew well what I could have caused by some words.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds like post-partum depression to me. Was your wife exhibiting this behaviour _before_ the baby?


Some moms never bond with their kids.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

FloridaPool said:


> Yes the therapist knows as she saw us before having a child for over a year where we processed my wife’s childhood together and her fears about being a good Mother. She was also the one I called at 11pm while pacing the apartment complex parking lot begging her to help me get my wife some help. She has also offered my wife the name of an individual therapist that she has not followed up with and is aware that she has stopped her medication but has been urging her to then do other things to help herself if she won’t resume medication. (Exercise, journaling, etc.)
> 
> my fear seems to be that when it comes to my feelings and my concerns it seems that my wife sees it as an attack on her character or ability to be a good partner as opposed to an opportunity to hear her partner out and work on the marriage.
> 
> then she flips it on me to say she knows I’m going to leave her when she is the one trying to not go to therapy because work has to be done. Like yes, if things don’t improve I’ve said I’m not happy so what would you expect?


As your title states, you definitely do not deserve this. Does she either though?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Then leave.
> 
> What solutions do you see for yourself?


BS! she can carry her lazy selfish ass down the road.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> Yeah I kinda agree which sucks cause I know that’s where her distant comments come from as she can tell I’m not the same with her anymore.
> 
> i just have a lot of guilt about leaving I’ve gotta process I guess.


To hell with leaving, she can carry her ass on down the street to the shirtless ex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaPool said:


> I don’t think that’s the case at all in regards to women and their ability to think and be independent and valuable.
> 
> It was suggested to me in this post so I’m listening to hear if it can help me at all.
> 
> Didn’t realize it was some red pill man vs woman thing just figured it was a guideline for establishing boundaries and healthy behaviors and reduce my people pleasing tendencies.


You can see in the way some people comment when they think men should be blue pill weak beta girly yes men.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

aldatan eşler usually behave like in your past posts while having a relationship

avoids spouses, is not interested in the house and marriage, they control you, they often get away from sex with resentments for no reason, it's okay to spend time with work and friends, but their schedules with you are always controversial and cold.

if divorce comes to the table or is caught

They want everything in the world for you, words of love, attention, love bombs, soul mate, best friend etc.they cannot explain the change, the therapist finds reasons for them,


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

FP your story sounds familiar except my x did not work full time. In my experience it will not get better. When a baby comes things change dramatically. No longer could my x sleep in till 9 get up have coffee, read the paper and casually go to a part time job a few days a week from 12 till 5. She was complainig that I was at work all day while she was in the trenches, likening watching a baby to WW1 warfare. I tried to do more. I am an early riser so when he woke at 6 am I was like got it no problem. Change him, dress him feed him the slop that a baby eats and then watch cartoons. But I needed to go to work so after Handy Manny and Special Agent Oso ended and the Mickey mouse clubhouse was ending (I have every episode memorized) I needed to get her downstairs. Fought every day about her getting out of bed by 8 am so I could go to work. Wash rinse repeat. Never got better even after he started attending school which I was responsible for getting him there by 730 so she didnt have to do anything until 2 pm when he got home. Still not good enough. Nothing I tried ever made a difference. To this day she only works a few days a week and resents having him (14 years old now) over. If your wife does not want to really be a mom there is nothing you can do and in my experience it will not get better I am sorry to say.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Does the therapist know about her post-partum depression?


I would believe a therapist would be able to see it as clearly as you have.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

How are things @FloridaPool


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

He has a new thread. Check it out.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Beach123 said:


> He has a new thread. Check it out.


And apparently it’s more of the same…


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