# Problems after 17 years



## noisy6 (Jun 6, 2011)

I found this forum and I thought it might help - a place for me to vent. I don't really have anyone else to really talk to.

I have been married 17 years now. I have 6 children from 13 down to 2. After my last baby I was told I couldn't have any more because my uterus would not hold up after four c-sections. Because we are devout Catholics we do not use artificial birth control so we are limited in the amount of times we can have relations, which honestly is okay with me. I need a break; my body needs a break.

I couldn't believe HOW relieved I was that I could take a break from relations. This might not sound normal to some of you, but I am 42, on antidepressants (depression runs in my family) and frankly just exhausted. I work almost full time from home and for the past seven year have homeschooled my kids.

Next month we are moving north and all the children except the little one will be in school! 

Okay, now the problem: My dh is REALLY missing sex. Our small window of opportunity affords him only one or two times per month. (please don't say anything about our faith  ). He wants to instead have a constant show of affection, which frankly I have lost somewhere along the way. I just have ZERO interest in intimacy. I want to be left alone in bed to have some "me time". His CONSTANT need to show outward affection has really, really put a HUGE strain on our marriage. We can't get past it and it's SOOO stressful

Any advice? Thanks in advance.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

noisy6 said:


> His CONSTANT need to show outward affection has really, really put a HUGE strain on our marriage. We can't get past it and it's SOOO stressful
> 
> Any advice? Thanks in advance.


Sure. His needs don't put stress on the marriage. Your unwillingness to meet them are what is putting stress on the marriage.

All marital partners have needs. The mindset you need to be successful in your marriage is "How can I meet my husband's needs". Your husband's mindset needs to be "How can I meet my wife's needs?". This is the definition of a successful marriage. A mindset that is the cause of marriage failure is "I am too tired meet my husband's needs".

If your religion requires you to do certain things, I would think being the best wife you can possibly be is extremely high up on the list. I would also say if you are doing too much for your children (homeschooling for example), at the expense of meeting then needs of your husband and your marriage, then this is not as God or the RC church intends.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi noisy6~
It sounds like you have a full, bountiful life that is filled to overflowing! You also sound exhausted - let's see - six kids, husband, house, job, homeschooling, moving. Yep - exhausted. So, it sounds like after the move you may have some time freeing up a bit when five of the kids go to a new school. That is good.

Can you carve out any small amount of time during the day right now for yourself - the oldest kids/husband can watch the younger ones - and you can take a bubble bath, take a walk (my recommendation because the fresh air and exercise will help in so many ways and it will literally get you out of the house and away from everybody), or something else that you enjoy even for just a few minutes?

You know, I believe that God created men and women the way they are for a reason. Our walk in our journey of marriage with our spouse is not unlike the walk that we have with Him. So, your husband is feeling sorely lacking and needy at this point while you feel utterly exhausted and spent. Your husband's physical needs are a way that he maintains his emotional intimate connection to you. It really took me a long time to get this about my own husband. Somehow, there needs to be a meeting in the middle for you both, but it will require both of you to cooperate to that end. So, if your husband isn't stepping up to help out so that you can get even a small amount of time to yourself, that would be the first thing I would point out to him and start to work on that together.

Next, I would seriously consider whether having a scheduled night for sex/intimate activities would help. Even if it is not during one of the times when you can freely engage in intercourse, there are other intimate things that you can do together. Normally I wouldn't like scheduling something like this, but he needs to know he won't be sent adrift and you need to know that you WILL have some much needed time off - and I think there are times when everyone needs that from both the kids and husband.

Lastly, every one needs some amount of affection on a daily basis - whether its mostly emotional (what you are needing right now) or physical (what your husband is needing right now.) I would try and spend even a few minutes with just your husband daily talking quietly, or gently rubbing his back/shoulder so that you still feel like there is a connection between you.

Best wishes to you!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Don't know much about the catholic BC rules, but are there options besides "standard" sex? And are there no "exemptions" based on medical reasons for not having kids? 

Honestly, you're at a significant risk of him either cheating, leaving, or just a continuously miserable home life. Not sure what the church thinks of any of those options... Have you talked to your church leader about any options?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Hicks said:


> Sure. His needs don't put stress on the marriage. Your unwillingness to meet them are what is putting stress on the marriage.
> 
> All marital partners have needs. The mindset you need to be successful in your marriage is "How can I meet my husband's needs". Your husband's mindset needs to be "How can I meet my wife's needs?". This is the definition of a successful marriage. A mindset that is the cause of marriage failure is "I am too tired meet my husband's needs".
> 
> If your religion requires you to do certain things, I would think being the best wife you can possibly be is extremely high up on the list. I would also say if you are doing too much for your children (homeschooling for example), at the expense of meeting then needs of your husband and your marriage, then this is not as God or the RC church intends.


I agree. As a RC, this is part of the core of the faith.


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## noisy6 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thank you enchant for your reply. He does help out. He does give me time (I go to the book store for my escape whenever time allows).

The problem is I don't _want_ to be intimate. I just want to be left alone. I do kiss him hello when he comes in. We hug or lay together watching a movie etc. It's not enough for him. 

I am not sure why, but I feel completely threatened in bed. I want NO parts of him. This makes me so sad because I know it hurts him so. I almost lost my life with the last baby so maybe I am associating sex/intimacy with that trauma? I have told him this. I just want space from intimacy. I hope that's not a sign of our marriage being over?......


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

Honestly, you could be my wife. You two sound identical. If it were not for the fact that you have 6 kids (we only have 3), then I would almost think it was her writing this. I have always had a high drive and even though my wife's was not as high as mine, she always had a drive and we never really had a problem since are window of opportunity was also limited (we are also Catholic)until recently. She works full time and since going through menopause (she is 46 now) she has lost all desire, and I'm lucky to get it once a month.

You need to realize your husband has needs too. How would you feel if you had a high drive but your husband didn't, and he never wanted to do it with you. If your husband is meeting your needs, whatever they may be, then you should at least try and meet his. I think some sort of compromise is in order otherwise, I agree with some of the other posts here. You are in great danger of him cheating (I have thought about it several times myself), or even leaving the marriage, or just staying in a miserable marriage where he will resent you more and more as time goes on. Who wants that in a marriage?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Did you guys catch the part where her doctor told her that having more children would cause internal damage to her? That means every time she has sex, she is at risk of another pregnancy and one that could do serious damage. Do you know what can happen to her if her uterus collapses? She could bleed to death, especially while having another c-section. How is that "she is too tired to meet his needs"? Would you put yourselves in that situation?
FWIW, I will never understand the Catholic Church on this issue.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

While I respect your religious view, I would suggest speaking to your clergy. The Catholic church has changed and I think any priest would understand the situation and endorse birth control for you or a vasectomy for your husband.

But even if that happens, "I just have ZERO interest in intimacy" needs to be addressed. I realize that you have "Irish twins" as my mother used to call us kids (or maybe you have real twins) and that takes a lot out of you, but sexual intimacy is a big part of marriage.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Chris Taylor said:


> While I respect your religious view, I would suggest speaking to your clergy. The Catholic church has changed and I think any priest would understand the situation and endorse birth control for you or a vasectomy for your husband.
> 
> But even if that happens, "I just have ZERO interest in intimacy" needs to be addressed. I realize that you have "Irish twins" as my mother used to call us kids (or maybe you have real twins) and that takes a lot out of you, but sexual intimacy is a big part of marriage.


My mom had 11 kids, the whole Catholic thing risked her health.

Finally, it was acceptable to have her tubes tied or a hysterectomy as a life saving procedure, not tagged specifically as birth control.

The reasoning was nuanced, but the result was the same.

Kind of like how divorce is forbidden, but an annulment is not.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Did you guys catch the part where her doctor told her that having more children would cause internal damage to her? That means every time she has sex, she is at risk of another pregnancy and one that could do serious damage. Do you know what can happen to her if her uterus collapses? She could bleed to death, especially while having another c-section. How is that "she is too tired to meet his needs"? Would you put yourselves in that situation?
> FWIW, I will never understand the Catholic Church on this issue.


The post clearly indicates that she is tired, has no me time, and does not see the importance of meeting her husband's sexual needs. It clearly says nothing about fear of bleeding as the reason for not wanting sex.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Oh, my dear, I feel for you. I have not been in the same kind of situation that you have, but I have had pregnancy worries and know how that can dampen a wife's ardor.

Have you discussed your anguish with your husband? Know, too, that he is likely also feeling some anguish about the situation. Do you have someone at your church that you can discuss this with, or that could refer you to someone to discuss it?

I have always been a much lower drive spouse, and have still been intimate with my H when he desired it. Do you feel you can do that? There are many ways that you can be intimate without having actual intercourse. In time, it does get better.

I will leave you with the following:

"So do not fear, for I am with you; 
do not be dismayed, for I am your God. 
I will strengthen you and help you; 
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." (Isaiah 41:10)

and for both you and your husband:

"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
(Ephesians 4:2)

God Bless.


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## noisy6 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks Enchant for your kind words. We have both discussed the situation with our priest. He even agrees this is going to be VERY hard on both of us until I reach menopause. 

Yes, I have talked to him about all of this. He's a MAN and thus, he thinks mostly physical and not emotional. I just need space and his drive is SO HIGH he physically cannot give me the space to heal and get myself back together emotionally and physically again.

I just wonder - if a woman loses her desire completely for her husband intimately, can it every recoup?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I believe a woman's desire for her husband can recoup, especially if it is a predominantly positive relationship and you have a strong desire to maintain your marriage. A marriage is like the ocean - it ebbs and flows, always changing.

How old are you and your husband? Waiting for menopause may seem like an insurmountable amount of time for a man - for a man the physical intimacy of marriage is key to him feeling emotionally connected to you. It took me a long time to get this because it was so different than the way I am. Do you feel like you could help your husband, either with your hand or mouth (sorry if too graphic)? I have done this at times with my husband even when I didn't particularly feel like it because I am committed to him and our marriage. It always helped draw us closer.

Have you searched for any married Catholic forums? There may be others in your kind of situation that could offer support. Here's a general Christian marriage site that offers good support as well: The Marriage Bed • Index page


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## noisy6 (Jun 6, 2011)

We are both in our early 40's. Hand and mouth thing is out of the question, besides I would totally be faking my desire to do it, which is zero right now.

Thanks for your encouragement though.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hicks said:


> The post clearly indicates that she is tired, has no me time, and does not see the importance of meeting her husband's sexual needs. It clearly says nothing about fear of bleeding as the reason for not wanting sex.


The post states that she had been given doctor's orders not to get pregnant again and it isn't out of a fear of blood. Her life could literally be in danger if she did get pregnant again. I assume her husband knows this and it still makes me wonder why everybody here thinks she is selfish? Wouldn't he be more so for wanting his needs to come before her health? :scratchhead:


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## wemogirl (May 31, 2011)

noisy6 said:


> I found this forum and I thought it might help - a place for me to vent. I don't really have anyone else to really talk to.
> 
> I have been married 17 years now. I have 6 children from 13 down to 2. After my last baby I was told I couldn't have any more because my uterus would not hold up after four c-sections. Because we are devout Catholics we do not use artificial birth control so we are limited in the amount of times we can have relations, which honestly is okay with me. I need a break; my body needs a break.
> 
> ...


Have you had any NFP training? The antidepressants may be contributing to your low drive. I had no desire when I was on my meds for PPD after my kids were born. Maybe you could cuddle/snuggle with your DH during the day to help him get his affection needs met and he can let bed time be your "me time".

I hope things get less stressful for you after your move.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The post states that she had been given doctor's orders not to get pregnant again and it isn't out of a fear of blood. Her life could literally be in danger if she did get pregnant again. I assume her husband knows this and it still makes me wonder why everybody here thinks she is selfish? Wouldn't he be more so for wanting his needs to come before her health? :scratchhead:


I don't think she is being selfish for wanting to not risk death.

I would presume it best to make sure he knows and her priest.

Lifesaving operations are consistent with Roman Catholic doctrine. If the operation results in not being able to get pregnant, this is considered a side effect, not the primary intent.


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## wemogirl (May 31, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The post states that she had been given doctor's orders not to get pregnant again and it isn't out of a fear of blood. Her life could literally be in danger if she did get pregnant again. I assume her husband knows this and it still makes me wonder why everybody here thinks she is selfish? Wouldn't he be more so for wanting his needs to come before her health? :scratchhead:


It sounds like he is trying to make up for the lack of sex by being affectionate in other ways and she just wants a break from all (or most) physical affection. I'm not under the impression he's trying to force her to have sex. Although maybe I'm misunderstanding.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I am not Catholic and don't understand the teachings, etc.

But - when religion enters my bedroom and tells me what I can/cannot do and could endanger my health in the process - then that would no longer be a religion I could follow.

But, being that they are devout Catholics - I don't think his needs trumps her right to live a long and healthy life.

And if he is a devout Catholic - would he not be willing to "spare" his wife and only attend to his needs during their window of opportunity? If he cares more about her duties as his wife and his needs than endangering her health - then how devout can he be?

I hate to say this but it sounds like an excuse so he can get his rocks off and to hell with what happens to her in the meantime.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

wemogirl said:


> Have you had any NFP training? QUOTE]
> 
> There are definitely more than one or two "safe" days per month. I understand you probably have to be extra careful in your situation though.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

michzz said:


> I don't think she is being selfish for wanting to not risk death.
> 
> I would presume it best to make sure he knows and her priest.
> 
> Lifesaving operations are consistent with Roman Catholic doctrine. If the operation results in not being able to get pregnant, this is considered a side effect, not the primary intent.


Not wanting to have another child because birth control isn't an option for her and after her doctor warned what could happen if she got pregnant again, it boggles my mind that anybody would fault her for being scared to have sex and being turned off by the thought. 6 kids under the age of 13 and she herself said her body needs to heal? How on earth is she selfish? I don't get, I just don't. What am I missing here?


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## noisy6 (Jun 6, 2011)

I have had NFP training, yes. A good friend is actually an instructor. 

I cannot take any chances. As I mentioned I almost lost my life and that of my newborn daughter's. Was in the hospital for 6 weeks. She was in for a month.

I can't take any chances at all.

I suppose what I want is the non-sexual affection and comfort and what he wants is the sexual affection. They are two VERY different things.

I am on TWO antidepressants. One is actually a migraine preventative (I get severe migraines about twice a month). So that's not helping either.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Not wanting to have another child because birth control isn't an option for her and after her doctor warned what could happen if she got pregnant again, it boggles my mind that anybody would fault her for being scared to have sex and being turned off by the thought. 6 kids under the age of 13 and she herself said her body needs to heal? How on earth is she selfish? I don't get, I just don't. What am I missing here?


IF OP said she was fearful of sex causing death, then you responses make total sense. However OP said she was too tired for sex because she homeschools her kids.

No birth control, homeschooling, dedicating certain amounts of energy to your kids vs your husband, these are all choices. Coupled with these choices are the choice not to meet the needs of her husband. Not meeting needs is a model for relationship failure. Her relationship cannot function if she will not meet her husband's needs. It's like saying you wish your car could run without gas. It just cannot function. There are many forms of sexual contact, intimacy and affection that are not health risks. Anyone can make the choice not to meet needs and imperil the marriage. It's really about decideing what are your main priorities in life and acting accordingly. If marriage is high, it needs to be priortized high. If marriage is behind church rules, schooling of your kids, work, money then keep it there and let the chips fall.

But, and here's a big but... A women who feels entitled to not meet her husband's needs, and does not even consider them at all is probably not getting her needs met by her husband.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

So avoiding intimate contact because you could die from it, and even avoiding lesser contact because it could escalate to intimate contact is wrong? Is that more or less wrong than pressuring for intimate contact when if it gets out of hand can result in a life-threatening situation?

Seems to me that this couple ought to get themselves out of the trap by taking permanent measures to prevent the life-threatening situation.

Personally, I would not even be turned on if the prospect of my sexual interest maybe causing the death of my wife by pregnancy.

This is about a basic need that trumps sex--staying alive.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The OP says she has ZERO interest in intimacy and her husband wants a constant show of affection.

If someone advises the OP to suggest that her husband should go along with ZERO intimacy, you are dooming the OP's marriage to failure. It cannot function and survive when the husband swallows his desires.

Ideally, both people need to selfish in expecting their needs to be met, and selfless in giving the other what they need.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

My wife could be you. She did not want to get pregant and because of her Catholic values, would not practice contraception. However, she found that there was AT LEAST 12 days a month that there was no way she could get pregnant. This worked out fine for us because there were always a couple of days each month that were considered "safe days" when she was in the mood, and she would also agree to a couple more safe days when she wasn't in the mood. 

Now because she is never in the mood (because of menopause and other factors that are too numerous to go into here) we rarely have it, and when we do its not very good (she basically lays there until I'm done. This is a far cry from just 5 years ago. As a man, it is very hard to stay with someone who doesn't really want to be intimite with you. I understand you have medical reasons so you need to be careful, but it sounds like the REAL REASON you two have a major problem is that you just don't want to be intimite with him at all. You need to compromise somehow with him. Schedule at least a couple times a month that you two will hook up. Then at least act like you desire him during these times. 

If you cant at least provide your husband with some basic human needs, can you really expect him to want to provide you with your basic needs? (I'm assuming he is already doing this?). Are you sure there aren't any other issues between the two of you? Part of being a catholic is to give yourself completely to your spouse and that includes being intimite with them, otherwise the two of you are just roomates raising the same kids together.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

russ101 said:


> Part of being a catholic is to give yourself completely to your spouse and that includes being intimite with them, otherwise the two of you are just roomates raising the same kids together.


Another part of being Catholic is to sacrifice selfishness if there is a bigger issue at hand -- like death by pregnancy.

I'm pretty sure that to a man, every guy here (myself included) would not risk having sex 12 times a year if there were even a theoretically possibility that their unit would fall off, let alone if they could die.

The context is NOT of a spouse denying intimacy arbitrarily or out of hostility.

What kind of husband considers pressuring for intimacy a good thing to do when it is a form of Russian Roulette?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hicks said:


> IF OP said she was fearful of sex causing death, then you responses make total sense. However OP said she was too tired for sex because she homeschools her kids.
> 
> No birth control, homeschooling, dedicating certain amounts of energy to your kids vs your husband, these are all choices. Coupled with these choices are the choice not to meet the needs of her husband. Not meeting needs is a model for relationship failure. Her relationship cannot function if she will not meet her husband's needs. It's like saying you wish your car could run without gas. It just cannot function. There are many forms of sexual contact, intimacy and affection that are not health risks. Anyone can make the choice not to meet needs and imperil the marriage. It's really about decideing what are your main priorities in life and acting accordingly. If marriage is high, it needs to be priortized high. If marriage is behind church rules, schooling of your kids, work, money then keep it there and let the chips fall.
> 
> But, and here's a big but... A women who feels entitled to not meet her husband's needs, and does not even consider them at all is probably not getting her needs met by her husband.


She posted a followup. She almost died with her last daughter. It is a very valid fear that having sex which can cause pregnancy would not make her want to take that chance again. If there was an activity that you were told to stay away from as it could cause your death, would staying away from it make your selfish? How is SHE selfish and not him? As for priorities in life....her priority is STAYING alive but naturally that makes her entitled.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

noisy6 said:


> I couldn't believe HOW relieved I was that I could take a break from relations. This might not sound normal to some of you, but I am 42, on antidepressants (depression runs in my family) and frankly just exhausted. I work almost full time from home and for the past seven year have homeschooled my kids.
> 
> .


I am going by the words in the post.
She is relieved to take a "break" from relations and does not want them becuase she is depressed and tired from working full time and homeschooling her kids.

Shutting her husband out for these reasons is cancer to the marriage. This is a marriage that produced 6 children and for the good of the children and society at large needs to stay strong. A middle ground must be reached between the wife's ZERO desire and the husbands CONSTANT desire.

Shutting her husband out over a fear of death from sex, with full empathy and sympathy for the sacrifice this requires of her husband is a completely different story which was never expressed in the post.

Aside from all that, my advice is that this couple should seek counseling from their parish priest, who can act as both a relationship counselor and arbiter of the church's views between the trade off's between maritial bonding, medical prodedures, birth control, risk of death in pregnancy and all the complicated factors here.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

:iagree: I couldn't have said it any better


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Shutting her husband out over a fear of death from sex, with full empathy and sympathy for the sacrifice this requires of her husband is a completely different story which was never expressed in the post.


The very first thing she wrote was that she had been warned not to have more children or she could have serious complications. Sacrifice this requires of the husband? You're joking, right? :scratchhead:


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

noisy6 said:


> Thank you enchant for your reply. He does help out. He does give me time (I go to the book store for my escape whenever time allows).
> 
> The problem is I don't _want_ to be intimate. I just want to be left alone. I do kiss him hello when he comes in. We hug or lay together watching a movie etc. It's not enough for him.
> 
> I am not sure why, but I feel completely threatened in bed. I want NO parts of him. This makes me so sad because I know it hurts him so. I almost lost my life with the last baby so maybe I am associating sex/intimacy with that trauma? I have told him this. I just want space from intimacy. I hope that's not a sign of our marriage being over?......


I'm over here smiling because I see immediately why you shut down. He is a typical man. You start cuddling and kissing, it escalates to sex. You already have six kids and your quality of life is in the toilet. You have zero time for yourself and you feel guilty for wanting some personal space. Wither you know it or not, your looking around and your saying to yourself; "this has to stop. I cant have anymore kids, and so you pull away."

I'm sorry, but unless you get things under control, your marriage will be destroyed. 

You feel stressed and over whelmed. (legitimate)
you feel guilt for wanting personal time (not legit)
You feel guilt for pulling away from your husband. (not legit)
you feel guilt that your not the iconic perfect mother and wife who can be all things to all people. (not realistic)

All this will eventually rip your family apart. Your trying to live the perfection of the "leave it to Beaver" or "Andy Griffith" universe. But we are in the real world and those goals aren't possible. 

No one can live that way for long. Eventually you will just walk away.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The very first thing she wrote was that she had been warned not to have more children or she could have serious complications. Sacrifice this requires of the husband? You're joking, right? :scratchhead:


Yes, I am joking. Empathy has no place in a marriage. You are right.

I am curious as to what your advice to the poster is. This is not the same as advising what her husband should do or think but what she should do.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hicks said:


> I am going by the words in the post.
> She is relieved to take a "break" from relations and does not want them becuase she is depressed and tired from working full time and homeschooling her kids.
> 
> Shutting her husband out for these reasons is cancer to the marriage. This is a marriage that produced 6 children and for the good of the children and society at large needs to stay strong. A middle ground must be reached between the wife's ZERO desire and the husbands CONSTANT desire.
> ...


:iagree:

noisy6, I think that this is the best advice. I urge you to consider this, and if you cannot do this before you move, then you make it a priority and establish a connection and seek counseling from your new parish.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Hicks said:


> Yes, I am joking. Empathy has no place in a marriage. You are right.
> 
> I am curious as to what your advice to the poster is. This is not the same as advising what her husband should do or think but what she should do.


My advice was and is to seek medical attention for a way to reduce the life-threatening situation. Again, the context is not about birth control even if the effect is.

Then with that weight off the shoulders, a more normal level of intimacy can result.


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