# Physical Relationship Suffering



## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Hi, I've read posts from the site for quite awhile and finally decided to sign up and post for the first time. First time posting on any site actually so please bear with me.

I am a 35 year old male, who married a women who is 43 years old. We have been together for 7 years, married almost 4 of them. The first 4 years together the our physical relationship was unbelievable, both sexually and affectionately, for both of us. The last four years both the sex and primarily the affection has tapered off. It will pick back up a little bit for a week or so then die down for a few months. I am a very sexual person but lack of touching lying in the bed together being affectionate drives me insane. We are (maybe where is a better word) very similar people in that we both enjoyed sex and after sex affection. Here is where she says the problem is, I am 6'3 235lbs with little to no fat on me and I stay in shape. She has gained weight the past few years and says its her not me. I'm not talking about extreme amounts either, 20lbs maybe. She often tells me she feels insecure around me naked because I am "younger and fit". She almost seems to get upset when I run or lift weights. I try to get her to do it with me. We even bought a home elliptical for her to use. I don't say anything negative to her about it, I still find her as beautiful as the day I met her. Not to mention she is a confident, intelligent, successful woman and she is absolutely the sexiest woman i have ever been with. She thinks I'm attracted to 20yr old girls but if I wanted a 20 yr old that's what I would have gone after. I got what I wanted when I got her. When we do have sex there is no passion anymore. All the sex is initiated by me (she use to initiate almost as much as I), oral sex is non existent, forplay is minimal, and affection is short afterward. When I try to be affectionate it's almost like I'm annoying her, our kissing used to be passionate now it's almost awkward. We are both busy busy people and we have two kids (my stepchildren) whom I have a great relationship and love as my own. We don't make enough time for us, I know that, who does? We have the normal stresses that any middle class family would have, nothing out of the ordinary. I guess what I am asking, is this all about her and her weight gain and her perceived appearance? Is she just hitting a period in her life at 43 where her sex drive is decreasing? Is she just not physically attracted to me anymore? Is our marriage getting stale? It's getting to the point where it is affecting my confidence. I don't want my wife to have sex with me to keep me happy, I want her to want it again like she did. Any input or advice would be great. Especially from women with younger partners. Thanks


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sorry... not a woman but as a man I will tell you what I found over the past 4.8 years in dealing with my wife's decision to cut off sex mostly

Many women do not like sex as much as men and there is very little you can do about it. pretty certain your wife falls in that category.

Your wife has made the call to cut you off because she believes she can.

Unless you leave her she will be able to keep it up.

..and there is virtually nothing you can do to change her mind. You will validate her decision by acting out of character since you feel sexually deprived. Things will worsen most likely

Good Luck...now you will get advice from others and the women you are seeking advice from that makes it seem like you have some control..you don't..its all in your wife's head in lieu of medical reasons


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

martib1 said:


> Hi, I've read posts from the site for quite awhile and finally decided to sign up and post for the first time. First time posting on any site actually so please bear with me.
> 
> I am a 35 year old male, who married a women who is 43 years old. We have been together for 7 years, married almost 4 of them. The first 4 years together the our physical relationship was unbelievable, both sexually and affectionately, for both of us. The last four years both the sex and primarily the affection has tapered off. It will pick back up a little bit for a week or so then die down for a few months. I am a very sexual person but lack of touching lying in the bed together being affectionate drives me insane. We are (maybe where is a better word) very similar people in that we both enjoyed sex and after sex affection. Here is where she says the problem is, I am 6'3 235lbs with little to no fat on me and I stay in shape. She has gained weight the past few years and says its her not me. I'm not talking about extreme amounts either, 20lbs maybe. She often tells me she feels insecure around me naked because I am "younger and fit". She almost seems to get upset when I run or lift weights. I try to get her to do it with me. We even bought a home elliptical for her to use. I don't say anything negative to her about it, I still find her as beautiful as the day I met her. Not to mention she is a confident, intelligent, successful woman and she is absolutely the sexiest woman i have ever been with. She thinks I'm attracted to 20yr old girls but if I wanted a 20 yr old that's what I would have gone after. I got what I wanted when I got her. When we do have sex there is no passion anymore. All the sex is initiated by me (she use to initiate almost as much as I), oral sex is non existent, forplay is minimal, and affection is short afterward. When I try to be affectionate it's almost like I'm annoying her, our kissing used to be passionate now it's almost awkward. We are both busy busy people and we have two kids (my stepchildren) whom I have a great relationship and love as my own. We don't make enough time for us, I know that, who does? We have the normal stresses that any middle class family would have, nothing out of the ordinary. I guess what I am asking, is this all about her and her weight gain and her perceived appearance? Is she just hitting a period in her life at 43 where her sex drive is decreasing? Is she just not physically attracted to me anymore? Is our marriage getting stale? It's getting to the point where it is affecting my confidence. I don't want my wife to have sex with me to keep me happy, I want her to want it again like she did. Any input or advice would be great. Especially from women with younger partners. Thanks



Wow, you sound like me. Uncanny similarities. It's scary.

This sounds like my marriage for the last 15 years!!!

Only now has my wifee lost a lot of weight and is getting into sex and I am doing whatever I can to support her.

But otherwise, you literally sound just like my situation. If I didn't know any better, I would say I posted this sleep walking.


This is what I've learned over those 15 years and from TAM.

- LD's spouses usually never change
- they always blame the HD spouses
- HD spouses are the ones comprising, jumping through hoops and suffering
- HD spouses are not getting their needs met
- HD spouses are meeting the needs of their LD spouses, but with little to no changes
- LD spouses will never change, even for you, unless they really want to
- reading more, playing 180 mind games, working out, doing more chores, etc. changes nothing for the LD spouses

There is nothing you can do, short of filing for divorce and then maybe they will change.


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

So your wife's issues really where her weight gain? I try to be positive and build her up, but it doesn't seem to be working. 

To the other gentlemen, I see what your saying but she will give me sex, she just isn't enjoying it anymore because she says she's self conscious. We have sex it's just no where near what it once was.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

martib1 said:


> So your wife's issues really where her weight gain? I try to be positive and build her up, but it doesn't seem to be working.
> 
> To the other gentlemen, I see what your saying but she will give me sex, she just isn't enjoying it anymore because she says she's self conscious. We have sex it's just no where near what it once was.



I'm only speaking from my personal situation, but my wifee was a large girl from the time we dated and got married. We had sex 1x month and nothing more because is was very self conscious about her body size but never did anything about it. 15 years of sex 1x month and finally she started getting in shape, lost 55 lbs at last count and now wants sex 1x week, sometimes if I initiated, up to 3x week, if I'm lucky. My wifee gives me sex but also doesn't enjoy it as much as I do. It's almost to please me and keep the marriage going......almost. She does enjoy sex but not like I do or nearly as much and I am open to toys, oils, fantasies, blind fold her, massages, giving her inane oral, you name it, she just isn't nearly as much.


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Im afraid the age difference is the underlying problem. I do think her weight is a problem as well but when it really gets down to it she is always going to look in the mirror and compare her age to mine.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I always joke with my husband that I need to be the better looking one...ALWAYS!!! I couldn't handle walking into a party and having people look at us and wonder what hell my husband saw in his unattractive wife. 

Your wife married a built man, who was younger than her and now that time has caught up she doesn't want to share something that, in her mind, has so little comparative value. Next to you, she feels totally inadequate. You're a gourmet meal and she is shepherds pie.

Add to that she is in her 40's, a time when most women really begin to see and feel what aging means. This is the time when she has to dig deep and recognize that the exterior is lit by the interior. She has to grow comfortable with her body as it changes and love herself anyway.

Express to your wife what you've expressed here, often. Go to the mall and point out senior couples who appear to be affectionate. They are old, wrinkled and grey but they still love each other, still have sex and are still attracted to each other. Point out couples who seem to have a good relationship and notice how often both partners fit the exterior mold.

Women love sex as much as men, probably more since we are multiorgasmic! Unfortunately, for women, body image plays a key role in enjoying sex. That's your wife's issue, not you, not sex, but body image.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I always joke with my husband that I need to be the better looking one...ALWAYS!!! I couldn't handle walking into a party and having people look at us and wonder what hell my husband saw in his unattractive wife.
> 
> Your wife married a built man, who was younger than her and now that time has caught up she doesn't want to share something that, in her mind, has so little comparative value. Next to you, she feels totally inadequate. You're a gourmet meal and she is shepherds pie.
> 
> ...


The research and everyday stories and statistics plus the ENTIRE porn sex industry and brothels and common stereotypes like "I have a headache" don't support your stated premise (on average) "Women love sex as much as men" ..just pointing out facts and by statistical plotting most of us men are married to average women when it comes to less sexual desire on our wives part. Including OP most likely.

Feel free to correct me with facts that support your premise.."Women love sex as much as men"..facts point otherwise especially in longer term relationships like longer term marriage.


I'm sorry but that is the way it is..hence this popular forum


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

*Unfortunately, for women, body image plays a key role in enjoying sex. That's your wife's issue, not you, not sex, but body image.*


That was the situation for Mrs.CuddleBug for 15 years.


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Pink, That's just it, if we went to the mall, guys would still be checking her out. I would check her out. I married a woman, not a young lady. I'm attracted to women who have hips not one that weighs 90lbs. My wife is not even "fat" . I know our society has made the average women think they are un attractive and inadequate but it's simply not true. There are many men just like me that like a women to look like a women. I don't in anyway feel I'm the more attractive one in the relationship. She may, but it's not true. She is still gorgeous she just isn't 30 anymore.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

intheory said:


> Great post!
> 
> martib1
> 
> ...


Remember OP MOST women are not on TAM


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Intheory, is there anything that your partner does to make you feel attractive? Are there things that help? I mean telling someone how beautiful they are over and over just gets annoying if the person your saying it to doesn't believe it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

martib1 said:


> Intheory, is there anything that your partner does to make you feel attractive? Are there things that help? I mean telling someone how beautiful they are over and over just gets annoying if the person your saying it to doesn't believe it.


You say that you both do not make much time for each other.

How many hours a week do you two spend together a week, just the two of you doing date-like things? Date-like does not mean only dinner out... it means time when you are focused on each other. It could be going for a walk, holding hands & talking; snuggling, or a dinner date.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You say that you both do not make much time for each other.
> 
> How many hours a week do you two spend together a week, just the two of you doing date-like things? Date-like does not mean only dinner out... it means time when you are focused on each other. It could be going for a walk, holding hands & talking; snuggling, or a dinner date.


Assuming his wife wants that..which many don't


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You say that you both do not make much time for each other.
> 
> How many hours a week do you two spend together a week, just the two of you doing date-like things? Date-like does not mean only dinner out... it means time when you are focused on each other. It could be going for a walk, holding hands & talking; snuggling, or a dinner date.



Sounds like a great evening or weekend to me.:smthumbup:

Busy?

But even after doing this, it didn't change Mrs.CuddleBug much in the sex department.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Assuming his wife wants that..which many don't


Your hatred of women is more than tiresome. Just stop responding to me since all you have to spew are mean comments denigrating women.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> Sounds like a great evening or weekend to me.:smthumbup:
> 
> Busy?
> 
> But even after doing this, it didn't change Mrs.CuddleBug much in the sex department.


Are you talking about one weekend? Or are you talking about consistently spending a good amount of time each week with your wife?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Are you talking about one weekend? Or are you talking about consistently spending a good amount of time each week with your wife?



I LOVE cuddling on the couch, chatting about our days, watching some TV and having a nap together. LOVE IT. And I don't initiate sex, she does.

I can do this every day after work.....no problem.

But she'd rather talk on the phone for hours with her sister and parents, daily. That's her thing.

If I romantically initiated after work, took her hand, up to the shower together, never happens. She still locks the doors.

Just the way Mrs.CuddleBug is and probably always will be.

I honestly don't go out much at all. If I did, there are a lot of hotties around and we live near the beach. Not good.

She doesn't even like her feet sensually massaged........oh well.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Your hatred of women is more than tiresome. Just stop responding to me since all you have to spew are mean comments denigrating women.


How does my response denigrate women? Many could care less to hold hands or go for walks rather sleep or be on facebook.

Again facts which you don't like....but nevertheless are true same as the sky being blue

Its like women in the NFL aint going to happen because of the physical differences. Facts.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

intheory said:


> Would somebody PLEASE have sex with Trying2figureitout.ray:
> 
> I would; except I'm married already.
> 
> ...


LOL not while I'm married, but I'm sure being sexually satisfied might make a change in my perceptions. We all view life and everything though our own life experience don't we?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I guess just taking her is out of the question?

Maybe its just me but nothing say "I want you" when your holding her down over the kitchen table with her skirt over her waist and a panties around her knees.

Sure I'm wired differently then most....my point is maybe your old lady is looking for something different?

Hell maybe I'm wrong and you end up with a frying pan up side your head....BUT WHAT IF I'M NOT!!!!!!!

Hell I'm just guessing here but maybe that sensitive crap is getting old and she just wants to get phucked like a women not a wife?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

martib1 said:


> Im afraid the age difference is the underlying problem.


I think you're on the money. I would never recommend a guy marry a girl older. I fact it should be the other way around. The "cougar" is ok for dating but not realist for a long term relationship. Marrying a woman 8-10 years your senior is like a woman marrying a man 30 years older. Think about what its going to be like when she's 60, you're barely in your 50's and chicks her age right now are hitting on you. You better have some strong will power my man.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> We all view life and everything though our own life experience don't we?


Yes we do!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

the guy said:


> Yes we do!


For instance....

You go back in time say years 15 and before ..I would sound like many of you, life's great sex is great sure it could be better but I'm fine and happy..
I would have laughed at myself today thinking that guy is nuts had I seen it ..oh never-mind I wouldn't be on TAM anyhow.

But now I experienced neglect... and researched everything there is to read on the subject...

So who is more correct myself at year 15 or myself at year 21?

I'll take the wiser opened eye me.

Almost all marriages are a ticking time bomb..and can change at the drop of a hat


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> I LOVE cuddling on the couch, chatting about our days, watching some TV and having a nap together. LOVE IT. And I don't initiate sex, she does.
> 
> I can do this every day after work.....no problem.
> 
> ...


So you don't go out with your wife much, if ever? You two don't have things that you do together?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> How does my response denigrate women? Many could care less to hold hands or go for walks rather sleep or be on facebook.
> 
> Again facts which you don't like....but nevertheless are true same as the sky being blue
> 
> Its like women in the NFL aint going to happen because of the physical differences. Facts.



It's cute how you pass off your beliefs as fact. They are in fact your beliefs and you are entitled to them, but they are just that: beliefs. 

Here's a nice example for you:

Fact: women have vaginas, men have penises. Objective measure.

Belief: Women enjoy sex less than men. Subjective measure.

See the difference?


But if you want to pass off some cases as broadly representative of a larger population here you go: some men are entitled pr!cks and as long as they they get theirs they could give a rat's arse about anyone else. Their are some men like this so therefore it must be fact, and therefore you are probably like this too. Work for you?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's cute how you pass off your beliefs as fact. They are in fact your beliefs and you are entitled to them, but they are just that: beliefs.
> 
> Here's a nice example for you:
> 
> ...


No I see both as facts on average and supported by the way the world is set up and yes evolution.

But again I look at the facts not what might be believable by many


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No I see both as facts on average and supported by the way the world is set up and yes evolution.
> 
> But again I look at the facts not what might be believable by many


My mistake. You must be super important to get to decide what's fact and what's not. Keep telling yourself that. Bye!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No I see both as facts on average and supported by the way the world is set up and yes evolution.
> 
> But again I look at the facts not what might be believable by many


One more time marriage poll....

Men do you want more or less sex with your wife if you had your way

Women do you want more or less sex with your husband if you had your way.

What do you think the results would be?

Again lets deal with facts, this supports the lack of success stories with 
"mismatched lobidos" also here on the sex forum. I see a general gender correlation in my research as to which gender desires sex more, and by that factor must enjoy it more at face value


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> My mistake. You must be super important to get to decide what's fact and what's not. Keep telling yourself that. Bye!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is the world round or flat? Can't be both. No matter how much you tell yourself its flat..that makes no sense based on today's knowledge of how the world formed with laws of physics and such. Plus satellites help confirm.

The Internet exposes us to limitless stories and studies and yes the entire pornography sex industry geared to males. Its not hard to see who values sex more and enjoys it more.

Perhaps prior to the Internet it was more vague but again not really..only difference is we all have become more politically correct and many wnat to stay with the norm of thinking even if it is opposite of facts.

Of course there are some individual gender exceptions over a 6 Billion plus population... many of those find their way to TAM to talk about it...but so do many of the average folks too.

Average readings make up the brunt of relationships not the extremes. TAM will always be skewed of the true average relationship by its very nature. Talk about marriage #1 site for that...if its working you don't have too.


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## Eustache_Dauger (Jun 30, 2014)

martib1,

Putting aside all of this talk about women/men wanting more or less sex, lets assume your wife is telling you the truth. She feels that her body is unattractive due to weight gain, and that lowers her desire to engage in intercourse. The logical thing to do is convince her to get involved in an exercise and diet program. My wife gained 68lbs with her first pregnancy, and after the baby came she would tell me how bad she felt about her body. I would give her all the "honey your beautiful" speeches, but it didn't help her self image. Also, she would not exercise with me. 

What turned the situation around for us was that she found an all female exercise group. She could bring the baby with her, and exercise with women who also had children. My wife lost all the baby weight, made some great friends, and her desire returned. There are a lot of exercise groups like this, and there may be one specifically for women your wife's age. 

Oh, and we are expecting our next child and the wife has gained another 60+ lbs during this pregnancy. I am really hoping that she will go back and exercise again after baby #2. I can deal with a round wife, but I can't deal with a no desire wife. 

Best of luck


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Elegirl, the simple answer is nowhere near enough. We both work on call we have kids, very little time for the two of us. We have made a concentrated effort of late to start spending more time together but it's almost like we are just going through the motions. I appreciate all the advice I really do and the to the gentleman who suggested the kitchen table, it's been tried and was a disaster. Those are things she would have loved a few years ago but that spark isn't there anymore.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The research and everyday stories and statistics plus the ENTIRE porn sex industry and brothels and common stereotypes like "I have a headache" don't support your stated premise (on average) "Women love sex as much as men" ..just pointing out facts and by statistical plotting most of us men are married to average women when it comes to less sexual desire on our wives part. Including OP most likely.
> 
> Feel free to correct me with facts that support your premise.."Women love sex as much as men"..facts point otherwise especially in longer term relationships like longer term marriage.
> 
> ...


I'll show you mine if you show me yours first....research that backs up your absurd notion that women don't enjoy sex as much as men!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

martib1 said:


> Elegirl, the simple answer is nowhere near enough. We both work on call we have kids, very little time for the two of us. We have made a concentrated effort of late to start spending more time together but it's almost like we are just going through the motions. I appreciate all the advice I really do and the to the gentleman who suggested the kitchen table, it's been tried and was a disaster. Those are things she would have loved a few years ago but that spark isn't there anymore.


If you do not spend enough time together, just the two of you, the passion in your relationship will die. That's what's happening. 

Get the book "His Needs, Her Needs". It's goes into this and talks about how to fix it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I'll show you mine if you show me yours first....research that backs up your absurd notion that women don't enjoy sex as much as men!


How Much of the Internet is Actually for Porn - Forbes

Whole industries worldwide AP.... men pay for sex, spend time online viewing it and yes break the law for it too.

Usually because their "need" is not met by their female partners or lack of partner

That to me means men like sex way more than women on average.

Now please debate me on this point.


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## martib1 (Jul 6, 2014)

Ordered it! Thanks again


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So you don't go out with your wife much, if ever? You two don't have things that you do together?



No, not that. I do things with her. UFC together, eat together, cuddle on the couch. She doesn't like to go out much and would rather relax at home, so we relax at home on our days off.

When we dated, we went to movies and ate out, but now we own a place together, have a very high end TV surround system and watch movies and PPV at home and we order in or buy locally. We walk to those places.

None of this changed her sex drive.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

martib1 said:


> Elegirl, the simple answer is nowhere near enough. We both work on call we have kids, very little time for the two of us. We have made a concentrated effort of late to start spending more time together but it's almost like we are just going through the motions. I appreciate all the advice I really do and the to the gentleman who suggested the kitchen table, it's been tried and was a disaster. Those are things she would have loved a few years ago but that spark isn't there anymore.


OP...

Having been there I do have some advice....for your own sanity

#1 Do what you can with her self respect issue, she does not believe you see her as beautiful even at 20 lbs over. This could possibly be part of it and worth your time to resolve.

#2 Find out if you can why she resents you. What resentment?
Trust me there is something to that. She likely has a black book/Rolodex and harbors resentment, I think you saw a glimpse over you being fit...there's more and that is part of why her heart is closed off to you.

#3 Settle in an take care of yourself, it is unlikely to be any quick fix. Center on yourself.

The odds of a quick turnarounds are low and actual turn arounds are rare and this whole thing can bring you down to near insanity if you let it. Remember at all times its NOT YOU its HER.... you can only control yourself and your own thoughts. Become OK without her. Be yourself.

Take all books on the subject with a grain of salt, and look for success stories her on TAM you will see most involve either a lightbulb moment 10-15 years later or coercion. There is exceedingly rarely a quick fix.

..and it rarely involves anything YOU do. Your wife is NOT seeking answers on TAM only you are.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

Trying2figureitout said:


> How does my response denigrate women? My wife could care less to hold hands or go for walks rather sleep or be on facebook.
> 
> Again beliefs which you don't like....but nevertheless are true same as the sky being blue
> 
> .



I fixed it for ya...you're welcome☺. 

Op, you can try to spend a lot of time with your wife...maybe she's feeling disconnected. You guys should sit down and talk about what's bothering you (both of you). It's also a good idea to buy the book suggested by Elegirl (I think) "his needs and her needs". She can also go to doctor to rule out any diseases.


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## fightforher (Dec 4, 2013)

martib1, Talking to her and understanding her perspective is important at this point. And being patient with her to get through this. My wife is also 43. And although to me she looks like the day I met her, she sees herself entirely differently. She can pinpoint areas on her body that are not the same. She points out that she will be entering menopause and is afraid of what might happen then. And then there is the concern that I might suddenly want somebody younger.

It is hard on her, she can't understand how I feel. She has to learn to appreciate and love her own body, and then give that body to you as a gift. Then the passion for sex will return.

Give her all the support you can, and I believe you will be rewarded when her confidence returns.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

fightforher said:


> martib1, Talking to her and understanding her perspective is important at this point. And being patient with her to get through this. My wife is also 43. And although to me she looks like the day I met her, she sees herself entirely differently. She can pinpoint areas on her body that are not the same. She points out that she will be entering menopause and is afraid of what might happen then. And then there is the concern that I might suddenly want somebody younger.
> 
> It is hard on her, she can't understand how I feel. She has to learn to appreciate and love her own body, and then give that body to you as a gift. Then the passion for sex will return.
> 
> Give her all the support you can, and I believe you will be rewarded when her confidence returns.


RE:Then the passion for sex will return.

Change WILL to MIGHT and your advice is sound


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Men will have sex more easily than women. Women need the man to solve an emotional rubik's cube. Once you do that, she's as sexual as a man. Porn exists becuase most guys are not smart enough to solve rubik's cube. And yes, your wife is part of the population of women. There is a percent of women who will have sex without alot of complexity, but I agree with TTFO it's a minority. And it really doesn't matter because OP's wife is certainily fitting this pattern..

Part of the solution to rubik's cube is to realize that women are taught that sex is bad, wrong etc. So they have to make an excuse to "do it". And that's why it's common that when you are dating or newly married or trying for chilren that the woman is sexual. And once her reasons stop, the sex also stops. So what is the reason for your wife to be sexual? What does she receive in life for being sexual?

The second thing to realize is that women test their men. They give them impossible to solve rationales for not being sexual. She's too fat or too old. You fail that by buying into it. You merely need to give her the reason that she has to be sexual and allow her to make choices.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

We figured this out thirty five years ago in the old country....

I spent nine months of the year in the big city (a capital in Europe) and three in the village in the mountains playing Farmer John. Up to our young teens we absolutely hated the village. Absolutely positively hated it. 

Then we had an epiphany.

Girls in the city had years of "proper behavior" indoctrination and making out, aside from the logistics, was not as easy as one may think. There was always other people around, etc.

The village had few such issues. The local girls had far fewer inhibitions, plenty of empty land and opportunity (my parents would never miss me if I was gone morning to night), and above all the village girls had no preconceptions of what is good or bad behavior. They all did it like bunnies, what ELSE is there to do 

Then on to college and more confusion; now even the village girls who had gotten into college had begun to develop the same inhibitions, worrying more about "mr right"... 

Needless to say my high school summers were quite interesting.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I think you're on the money. I would never recommend a guy marry a girl older. I fact it should be the other way around. The "cougar" is ok for dating but not realist for a long term relationship. Marrying a woman 8-10 years your senior is like a woman marrying a man 30 years older. Think about what its going to be like when she's 60, you're barely in your 50's and chicks her age right now are hitting on you. You better have some strong will power my man.


Well, and the other side of this..... I am in my mid 40s and 9 years older than my husband. I am very high drive and unsatisfied with our sex life. He is very passive and refuses to initiate. Another story for another thread... 

While I am nothing special, I am in better shape than him and frequently get hit on by men (and sometimes couples and women) of all ages. My husband better watch out because I am not sure how strong my will power will be! LOL


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Trying, you have an agenda and it is boring.

OP, nobody can tell you if it is her age. When I hit my 40s my drive sky rocketed. I'm not the only woman with that experience.

If she says the 20 lbs bothers her then it is up to her to fix it. 

Are you a husband who doesn't end up being her third kid? Can you find your own things and don't need to be told what you need to do all the time? 

You come to bed smelling good?

You hold her just to hold her?

You both need to make time for your marriage. Being like every other middle class family where the marriage starves is going to get you just what half of all marriages get asked you don't want that. The kids are important but the marriage is the foundation of the family. Give it the attention it requires.

She acknowledges that it is her. OK. Cool. What's her plan to address it? Ask her plainly. You love her and want her and being close to her is important to you. You miss her. Is she going to respond with love and demonstrate that she wants things to improve or will you be able to see by her lack of response that she does not love you as she once did?

Actions. Not words.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> Trying, you have an agenda and it is boring.
> 
> OP, nobody can tell you if it is her age. When I hit my 40s my drive sky rocketed. I'm not the only woman with that experience.
> 
> ...


My agenda is getting over this inaccurate and often espoused notion that the genders approach sex the same and cut through the noise so that we can have a legitimate discussion about sexual difficulties and I will speak my mind on this subject having intimate knowledge of sexless and low sex marriages...based on extensive research and interviews and first hand knowledge.

If you are bored of my message you must be bored with facts.

This also is the reason there is little success stories populating TAM rather a lot of people with their hands in the air..what gives. And advice that does not work because of the way these issues arise between genders.

I agree with actions versus words..your spouse does not want to hear them anyhow. Too resentful.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

God the bs is getting thick in here. Is t2 going to be allowed to derail every newbee's thread in SIM with his 'agenda'? T2, can't you just stop it? Or at least concentrate on the threads of posters who know your history and can see you coming? The whole idea of you giving sex advice is so over the top rediculus it's scary.

For the uninitiated, T2 never followed any of the advice he claims doesn't work. He followed his own made up path, allowed his wife to openly cheat on him and made every mistake one can, all in the name of his grand failed plan. Now he rails against what actually works to make himself feel better.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> God the bs is getting thick in here. Is t2 going to be allowed to derail every newbee's thread in SIM with his 'agenda'? T2, can't you just stop it? Or at least concentrate on the threads of posters who know your history and can see you coming? The whole idea of you giving sex advice is so over the top rediculus it's scary.
> 
> For the uninitiated, T2 never followed any of the advice he claims doesn't work. He followed his own made up path, allowed his wife to openly cheat on him and made every mistake one can, all in the name of his grand failed plan. Now he rails against what actually works to make himself feel better.


What works? Seems like you have the answers...again what works?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Care to guess how many times you've asked that question, been answered, and then ignored it? 

Anyway I see you're still jumping in every new posters thread to spread your misinformation.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Your wife has made the call to cut you off because she believes she can.


I agree. Unless there is some valid medical reason...cutting off sex with you is like the kiss of death to the marriage. Make sure she knows it is SHE putting the stake thru your marriage's heart. And follow it up with your ACTIONS, not your words.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> God the bs is getting thick in here. Is t2 going to be allowed to derail every newbee's thread in SIM with his 'agenda'? T2, can't you just stop it? Or at least concentrate on the threads of posters who know your history and can see you coming? The whole idea of you giving sex advice is so over the top rediculus it's scary.
> 
> For the uninitiated, T2 never followed any of the advice he claims doesn't work. He followed his own made up path, allowed his wife to openly cheat on him and made every mistake one can, all in the name of his grand failed plan. Now he rails against what actually works to make himself feel better.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Because hitting like is not enough.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Care to guess how many times you've asked that question, been answered, and then ignored it?
> 
> Anyway I see you're still jumping in every new posters thread to spread your misinformation.


refresh my memory...all I know about is what does not work after 4 plus years of TAM... man up, better yourself, hold her accountable, talk, offer counseling, beg , grovel , plead, 180, MMSL, HNHN, ignore, redirect, take up hobbies, get fit, stop drinking, start drinking, better man, end affair, do stuff together, shower her with happiness, do stuff together, talk to friends, better father, corner her and get her to admit she has a problem and get her to admit it needs resolved....

Did I miss anything

let me guess divorce and move on ..simple...doesn't really solve anything does it? Its her.

One more time nothing you do changes anything in regards to a withholding wife other than total coercion the you get duty sex...worse in my book than no sex


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The corollary is that if it takes the above laundry list of prerequisites to get your wife to have sex with you then regardless of how good she is in bed it's not worth it.

Sex should not be quid pro quo period. You may nudge a clueless younger spouse into the right path )) but anything more than that requires work. Good and useful work but work nonetheless. The more you do the more lopsided the relationship is, ergo....

If your behavior has an issue then she should discuss in the open, not depend on the Resentment Fairy to show the way.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> God the bs is getting thick in here. Is t2 going to be allowed to derail every newbee's thread in SIM with his 'agenda'? T2, can't you just stop it? Or at least concentrate on the threads of posters who know your history and can see you coming? The whole idea of you giving sex advice is so over the top rediculus it's scary.
> 
> For the uninitiated, T2 never followed any of the advice he claims doesn't work. He followed his own made up path, allowed his wife to openly cheat on him and made every mistake one can, all in the name of his grand failed plan. *Now he rails against what actually works to make himself feel better.*


Rails against women in general. His wife doesn't want to have sex with him....must be a female thing, couldn't possibly be that she finds him repulsive or that she's getting it somewhere else.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Rails against women in general. His wife doesn't want to have sex with him....must be a female thing, couldn't possibly be that she finds him repulsive or that she's getting it somewhere else.


Nope its the difference in the genders and how typical average women respond to men sexually in long term marriages...mostly

Over and over the very same story here at TAM everyday read read read

Read and weep... hard to deal with a mixed emotion spouse long term..who remembers every slight..no win


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Nope its the difference in the genders and how typical average women respond to men sexually in long term marriages...mostly
> 
> Over and over the very same story here at TAM
> 
> Read and weep... hard to deal with a mixed emotion spouse long term..who remembers every slight..no win


Holy cow! It is so simple! Why has it taken me so long to finally understand that when I lost my love for my husband it was because I was a female and had nothing to do with the what he was or wasn't doing.

Sheeshe! 

Wasted all that time and energy to bring back our sex life, our bond, our attraction to each other when I should have just followed your wife's plan! Go to the gym and hook up with my work out buddy while my husband pays the bills and I grow my disgust for him with each passing day. So simple! :slap:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Some people take the easy way, some don't. You chose well by not taking the easy way out but that does not make the easy choice disappear.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> Some people take the easy way, some don't. You chose well by not taking the easy way out but that does not make the easy choice disappear.


Not sure I agree with you John. You define what you want and then you work to get it. If, after you've worked to get what you want and you still don't have it, then you decide what you want based on what is possible under the new set of limitations. 

For you, you've already adjusted your expectations so that what you want is to live as peaceably as possible until your girls graduate. Then you will pack up and go. You haven't given up, you have redefined your expectations based on your acceptance of the limitations your wife presents.

I think you are wasting some of the best years of your life and would not advocate for the decision you've made. But it is your life and you may conduct it as you decide.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Did I miss anything
> 
> let me guess divorce and move on ..simple...*doesn't really solve anything does it?* Its her.
> 
> One more time nothing you do changes anything in regards to a withholding wife other than total coercion the you get duty sex...*worse in my book than no sex*


How in the world can you say that divorce doesn't solve anything? Especially when you also say duty sex is worse than no sex?

Divorce allows you to move on and find another partner who wants to have sex with you.

Unless you are assuming NO WOMAN will want to have sex with you even if you did divorce. So if that is the case, then I agree, divorce will make no difference.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I wasn't talking about me, Anon...

Just because someone takes the hard way out (or the easy way out) does not validate or invalidate the position taken or not taken.

Without understanding of what the other person is going thru or dealing with it's not quite as easy to decide what matters to them. But it's easier to offer aphorisms and generalizations, which seem to be abundant in TAM.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> How in the world can you say that divorce doesn't solve anything? Especially when you also say duty sex is worse than no sex?
> 
> Divorce allows you to move on and find another partner who wants to have sex with you.
> 
> Unless you are assuming NO WOMAN will want to have sex with you even if you did divorce. So if that is the case, then I agree, divorce will make no difference.


This was my thought exactly. In a situation where nothing else works, divorce absolutely does solve the problem.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> How in the world can you say that divorce doesn't solve anything? Especially when you also say duty sex is worse than no sex?
> 
> Divorce allows you to move on and find another partner who wants to have sex with you.
> 
> Unless you are assuming NO WOMAN will want to have sex with you even if you did divorce. So if that is the case, then I agree, divorce will make no difference.


So what I get sex big deal... I married my wife and did give her that option divorce and she refused. So I wait and don't leave at the slightest turbulence sex is only one thing and frankly overrated.

Divorce is for well losers not impressed

I would have zero problem finding a woman to have sex with besides my wife I choose not to


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> So what I get sex big deal... I married my wife and did give her that option she refused. So I wait and don't leave at the slightest turbulence sex is only one thing and frankly overrated


They why do you constantly whine about it?

I think you are actually terrified of sex itself, that's why you don't bother to leave.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> They why do you constantly whine about it?
> 
> I think you are actually terrified of sex itself, that's why you don't bother to leave.


Do I whine? give me examples


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ Post of the century.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Do I whine? give me examples



:lol: :rofl:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Not peer reviewed


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The funniest part is that he knows he's fos and yet just keeps going. He should do standup.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't think he knows.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Divorce is for everyone but the aftertaste may not be, especially if alimony and child support are involved.

The bigger question may be, why did it have to be this way - in other words, it's a lose - lose situation for everyone.

Do some spouses loathe sex (with their partner at least) this much that they're willing to put everything on the line? Or do they prefer to get all the benefits of marriage without the obligations?

Answer those two and you have it made...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> Do some spouses loathe sex (with their partner at least) this much that they're willing to put everything on the line? Or do they prefer to get all the benefits of marriage without the obligations?


Or do you prefer to stay with someone who is incapable of genuine love and caring?

And if you do prefer this, perhaps you are incapable of those as well?


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No I see both as facts on average and supported by the way the world is set up and yes evolution.
> 
> But again I look at the facts not what might be believable by many


Can you reference your "facts". Seriously I am interested where you are getting your information because it is contrary to what I have seen reported.

For example, The Sex-Starved Marriage

From this: "These examples might make it seem as if men were the ones most affected by a sexless marriage, but Weiner Davis says that isn't true. Men, she says, are just as likely as women to be the member of the couple with the low sex drive -- although they are less likely to admit it. "If you've been thinking that low sexual desire is only 'a woman's thing,' think again," she says. "Many sex experts believe that low desire in men is America's best-kept secret. But make no mistake about it: there are millions of people, women AND men, who just don't feel turned on."'


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Or do you prefer to stay with someone who is incapable of genuine love and caring?
> 
> And if you do prefer this, perhaps you are incapable of those as well?



I don't think those people are incapable as much as they are unwilling.

If they were incapable to begin with - be it personality disorder, asexual, CSA etc - then don't get married. 

If a pet guineapig is more than capable of showing affection and desire, is it too much to expect a human could do it?

There is no expectation that T2 or what not comes home and finds Anastasia Steele waiting for him. But to come home in a lose lose situation?

Have we forgotten how to negotiate or it's all Me Me Me 24/7?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> I don't think those people are incapable as much as they are unwilling.
> 
> If they were incapable to begin with - be it personality disorder, asexual, CSA etc - then don't get married.
> 
> ...


Well, who are you asking? Because if you are asking me, the institute of marriage isn't "more" sacred to me than my own happiness is. And beyond that, I don't feel others should "have to" do it "my way" or any other way.

So if someone ends up married to a sexual dud, if you are asking me about MY way, I'd say, do what you have to do to be fair to your children and get on out of there (ie: divorce). 

If you are asking someone else, they'd say you took vows for life and God will smite you if you dare ever even think of leaving.

If you are asking someone else, they'd say sex doesn't even matter, only love does.

If you are asking someone else....well, you get the picture.

But here's the bottom line we should always remember: the odds are that you (any you) will be divorced at least once if you've been married at least once, and you'll be divorced more than once if you've been married more than once.

Do you honestly think anyone else cares what your individual values are? Because I don't think anyone cares about mine, and I don't care about theirs either. It isn't my job to make value judgments about what other people do with their lives.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Unable vs unwilling is not open to interpretation or subject to individual values...


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