# A mother's betrayal & cheating accidentally found out 27 years after the deed



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)




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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Well that sucks.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fS8nPo21Dg


You really should post this on this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-my-story-reconciliation-9.html#post19520753

This kind of thing has to be handled SO carefully.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

One of the truths in life is......Don't ask questions you don't know the answer to, if you can't handle the answer you might get.

My wife took a DNA test and a very close (by DNA standards) match said that her Canadian mom had a child out of wedlock by an American youth and that her mom told her he did X for a living, graduated from Y university and died as a soldier in the Korean War. Turns out it was pretty clear to my wife that it was a 1st cousin and none of the story was true. He had never been in the military let alone died in the Korean War. He died in his sleep. Turns out the 1st cousin finally contacted this lady and they know know they are half-sisters.

The ability to keep hidden affairs, especially if they produce children is pretty hard to do in this day and age. The other thing that is going to challenge a lot of families are the number of couples that use sperm donors from clinics to help create children. That will be an obvious DNA disconnect as well.

Oh well life goes on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> This kind of thing has to be handled SO carefully.


Right?

I’m thinking the next big family dinner would be a great time to “carefully handle” this.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> The other thing that is going to challenge a lot of families are the number of couples that use sperm donors from clinics to help create children. That will be an obvious DNA disconnect as well.
> 
> Oh well life goes on.


So you're saying we'll finally be able to find out who is the real father of Michael Jackon's kids?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DNA matching is one thing, but the ethnic background is totally different. What I mean is if the DNA says you are a relative of Joe Schmoe, yeah you probably are. But if your test results say your ethnicity is X% this and Y% that, it is not reliable. There was a scandal not that long ago where some social justice types at one of the big DNA companies were intentionally modifying the results they sent out. When the real results said European, they'd toss in a little bit of African or Asian, something to make it look less pure. I guess they thought certain people needed to feel confused that they had a little something impure in them.

Anyhow, I would caution anyone from believing the ethnicity too literally if it conflicts with others in your family. It is nowhere near good enough evidence to declare false paternity or other shenanigans.

The internet is revealing a lot of secrets. Birth certificates are now widely digitized, so a careful search will bring up names of parents or children linked together which were deeply held secrets in the past. I've discovered relatives accidentally that way. Facebook also has revealed connections to some of these people.


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## SGr (Mar 19, 2015)

Simple life lesson.

Lying requires a great memory. Telling the truth requires no such contortions to keep track of all the stories, because the truth doesn't change.

Painful to watch.

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Thor said:


> DNA matching is one thing, but the ethnic background is totally different. What I mean is if the DNA says you are a relative of Joe Schmoe, yeah you probably are. But if your test results say your ethnicity is X% this and Y% that, it is not reliable. There was a scandal not that long ago where some social justice types at one of the big DNA companies were intentionally modifying the results they sent out. When the real results said European, they'd toss in a little bit of African or Asian, something to make it look less pure. I guess they thought certain people needed to feel confused that they had a little something impure in them.


I recall seeing a report on one of the morning news shows covering a couple of identical twins and the numbers that each of them received following their testing (via the same provider) — they each came back with completely different percentages for their racial makeup.

I hadn’t heard about test results being intentionally modified. If true I hope the perpetrators spend plenty of time in prison.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*With the ever pressing advance in hereditary technology, long, deep, well-kept "secrets" are fastly becoming a thing of the past!*


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

She said “I feel betrayed from my family, the ones that did know.”

That’s the really painful part 😢. She feels like they lied to her. It changes everything.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

The trouble is most folks with disappointing DNA test results in hand can no longer differentiate between being the daddy and being the father.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Make no mistake this is the endgame of every affair man or women. At the point you have one you are the same type of person as this women's mother, maybe you can change but your actions had the potential to have the same results. Just as disgusting, just as destructive, just as evil. Because it doesn't produce a child doesn't make it any less awful. 

I really used to believe women (meaning as a gender) were better, more honest, and faithful then men when it came to things like this when I was young, boy has that silly idea gone out the window. 

DNA test for everyone at birth.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I really used to believe women (meaning as a gender) were better, more honest, and faithful then men when it came to things like this when I was young, boy has that silly idea gone out the window.


What made you think this and then what made you think otherwise?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Thor said:


> DNA matching is one thing, but the ethnic background is totally different. What I mean is if the DNA says you are a relative of Joe Schmoe, yeah you probably are. But if your test results say your ethnicity is X% this and Y% that, it is not reliable. There was a scandal not that long ago where some social justice types at one of the big DNA companies were intentionally modifying the results they sent out. When the real results said European, they'd toss in a little bit of African or Asian, something to make it look less pure. I guess they thought certain people needed to feel confused that they had a little something impure in them.
> 
> Anyhow, I would caution anyone from believing the ethnicity too literally if it conflicts with others in your family. It is nowhere near good enough evidence to declare false paternity or other shenanigans.
> 
> The internet is revealing a lot of secrets. Birth certificates are now widely digitized, so a careful search will bring up names of parents or children linked together which were deeply held secrets in the past. I've discovered relatives accidentally that way. Facebook also has revealed connections to some of these people.


This is a good thing.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> What made you think this and then what made you think otherwise?


Honestly probably pop music, also all the women in my family are wonderful and deeply honorable people. It was the men who were cheaters or messed up. I wasn't taught this thinking but experience taught me that, but my experience was limited. In fact the first women I met who was any different was the women who cheated on me.

When I was a teenager I was probably a nice guy in the fact that I thought women were angles (angels, stupid beer dyslexia), foreign and other worldly. I was also a very impressionable kid. The idea of women being the fairer sex stayed with me until the internet showed up. Now I don't believe that at all everyone sucks. >

Nah there are good people and bad people, and it's their actions that make them so.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

On another note these people really post themselves shopping at Walmart and ordering lunch. 200 years from now the AI that's left will look back and laugh at the last days of the human race.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Right?
> 
> I’m thinking the next big family dinner would be a great time to “carefully handle” this.


I don't know if you are being sarcastic but all studies and research clearly show that if your kids are adopted or if you know one of the parents isn't a biological parent, you don't dump the news on the kids all in one go when they are a certain age or let them discover the 'truth' for themselves or lie to them in hope they never find out. That's thoughtless and akin to child abuse. Then you get videos like this.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> > Right?
> ...


 Exactly. Every psychologist that understands children and adoption will tell you that it is something that the children need to know all along. This whole thing of waiting till they're 12 or waiting till they're 18 or something. Children who know they are adopted all along do much better than children who find out later in life.


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## arobk (Mar 17, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. Every psychologist that understands children and adoption will tell you that it is something that the children need to know all along. This whole thing of waiting till they're 12 or waiting till they're 18 or something. Children who know they are adopted all along do much better than children who find out later in life.


Judging from what you wrote I am going to guess that neither of you watched the video.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

arobk said:


> Judging from what you wrote I am going to guess that neither of you watched the video.


What makes you say this? Her mother clearly always knew and her dad always had an 'inkling' (he basically knew too). Neither of her parents could be bothered to figure out and decide what was in the best interest of the child. So ****ing irresponsible.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

arobk said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. Every psychologist that understands children and adoption will tell you that it is something that the children need to know all along. This whole thing of waiting till they're 12 or waiting till they're 18 or something. Children who know they are adopted all along do much better than children who find out later in life.
> ...


I was responding to another comment, hon


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Long but worth the read in trying to sort out this deception...

The only hope for change... Court approved DNA test at birth. No signatures until results are verified.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I don't know if you are being sarcastic but all studies and research clearly show that if your kids are adopted or if you know one of the parents isn't a biological parent, you don't dump the news on the kids all in one go when they are a certain age or let them discover the 'truth' for themselves or lie to them in hope they never find out. That's thoughtless and akin to child abuse. Then you get videos like this.


I was referring to the woman in the video — or anyone in a similar situation — confronting her mother with respect to the truth of her paternity.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Honestly probably pop music, also all the women in my family are wonderful and deeply honorable people. It was the men who were cheaters or messed up. I wasn't taught this thinking but experience taught me that, but my experience was limited. In fact the first women I met who was any different was the women who cheated on me.
> 
> When I was a teenager I was probably a nice guy in the fact that I thought women were angles,


Vs what? Spheres? Circles? : Sorry. Couldn't help myself. Carry on.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly probably pop music, also all the women in my family are wonderful and deeply honorable people. It was the men who were cheaters or messed up. I wasn't taught this thinking but experience taught me that, but my experience was limited. In fact the first women I met who was any different was the women who cheated on me.
> ...


 I love your sense of humor. That said, someone who actually believes Disney movies and popular music and then becomes jaded toward an entire gender when they aren't true has bigger issues. I'm sorry.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I love your sense of humor. That said, someone who actually believes Disney movies and popular music and then becomes jaded toward an entire gender when they aren't true has bigger issues. I'm sorry.


Wait. Pop culture? You mean Thor is not REAL??? I knew Disney movies weren't because, really, none of us are shaped like the princesses. And prince charming? What even? Harvey milk toast. All he has is a kingdom. What did he even see in Cinderella? A dress and a pretty face? Different shoes? They did not say a word to each other the whole time they were dancing. But Thor?? Sigh. I guess I have to admit to my husband that I have had unrealistic expectations all along.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait. Pop culture? You mean Thor is not REAL??? I knew Disney movies weren't because, really, none of us are shaped like the princesses. And prince charming? What even? Harvey milk toast. All he has is a kingdom. What did he even see in Cinderella? A dress and a pretty face? Different shoes? They did not say a word to each other the whole time they were dancing. But Thor?? Sigh. I guess I have to admit to my husband that I have had unrealistic expectations all along.


I was the opposite. As a child I was fascinated by Greek mythology rather than stupidity of Disney movies (sorry to the fans) and remember being struck by the image of men turning into stone when they looked into the eyes of Medusa. I think this saved me getting involved with women where I felt a high likelihood that they would 'turn me into stone' and crumble my heart.
But I would have thought that as an adult, it is not a big secret anymore that people do ****ty things, men or women.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> I love your sense of humor. That said, someone who actually believes Disney movies and popular music and then becomes jaded toward an entire gender when they aren't true has bigger issues. I'm sorry.


Yep. I wrote about this phenomenon here: 

"My wife wouldn't do that." | Dad Starting Over

A lot of gals don't have an appreciation for the level of worship some guys have for girls/women when growing up. When these men are inevitably hurt by women (because women are... *gasp*... HUMAN) their entire worldview gets flipped upside down. It's like finding out your perfect mom was a prostitute. Like seeing your parents drunk. 

Anytime you have your reality shattered, it's devastating.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Vs what? Spheres? Circles? : Sorry. Couldn't help myself. Carry on.


Well lots of them are trapezoids.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> What makes you say this? Her mother clearly always knew and her dad always had an 'inkling' (he basically knew too). Neither of her parents could be bothered to figure out and decide what was in the best interest of the child. So ****ing irresponsible.


Her mother is an immoral ******* who even after seeing how much it is causing her child to suffer still lies to her. Cheating was just one manifestation of her a*****ness. Again take lesson here. It's their nature it's who they are. It's not like cheating is ever the only issue.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I love your sense of humor. That said, someone who actually believes Disney movies and popular music and then becomes jaded toward an entire gender when they aren't true has bigger issues. I'm sorry.


Dude I was 16, give me a ****ing break. The only girls I knew in real life who were not my family were also 16.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Well lots of them are trapezoids.


Trapezoids have angles.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> Yep. I wrote about this phenomenon here:
> 
> "My wife wouldn't do that." | Dad Starting Over
> 
> ...


Asking women or people for that matter to be faithful to their vows is not asking them to be held to a higher standard then a human one. I love how people lower the bar so much. Believing your spouse won't cheat on you is not putting them on a pestle. I suspect calling stuff like infidelity, just normal human behavior is usually done by people to allow themselves to be held to such a low standard as well. There are a lot of normal human behaviors that if we did would suck for all of us. Who care if it's normal or not. It's normal to be lazy and not want to work. This is a lazy line of thinking that avoids holding people accountable. Expecting the best out of people is just as normal and more importantly it's healthy. The problem is that some people get into denial once the guilty parties true nature is revealed mostly because they are afraid at least in my opinion. Some people are just ****ty usually it's in their nature and isn't something that changes overnight. It's just as naive to assume people can't do better.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

RWB said:


> Long but worth the read in trying to sort out this deception...
> 
> The only hope for change... Court approved DNA test at birth. No signatures until results are verified.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html


How depressing.

Other options: if the H/W D - allow the deceived ex-husband to sue the OM for back and future child support. If they stay together you could also sue for back and future child support with stipulations that the OM has zero legal claim for visitation or the like. In the case where the exW marries the OM, the man really should be able to get a huge chunk of money out of the deal, if we truly want to be fair.

The 2 year time limit doesn't seem fair to me, unless there is mandatory DNA testing at birth. Too many of these guys don't find out until years past the 2 year dead line.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

naiveonedave said:


> How depressing.
> 
> Other options: if the H/W D - allow the deceived ex-husband to sue the OM for back and future child support. If they stay together you could also sue for back and future child support with stipulations that the OM has zero legal claim for visitation or the like. In the case where the exW marries the OM, the man really should be able to get a huge chunk of money out of the deal, if we truly want to be fair.
> 
> The 2 year time limit doesn't seem fair to me, unless there is mandatory DNA testing at birth. Too many of these guys don't find out until years past the 2 year dead line.


It's not going to change until we stand up and demand better.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

naiveonedave said:


> How depressing.
> 
> Other options: if the H/W D - allow the deceived ex-husband to sue the OM for back and future child support. If they stay together you could also sue for back and future child support with stipulations that the OM has zero legal claim for visitation or the like. In the case where the exW marries the OM, the man really should be able to get a huge chunk of money out of the deal, if we truly want to be fair.
> 
> The 2 year time limit doesn't seem fair to me, unless there is mandatory DNA testing at birth. Too many of these guys don't find out until years past the 2 year dead line.


It would be interesting to know how many fathers (the term father here is used from the child's perspective - aka who they KNOW and love as their father) would bail on a child who loves them at age 2...5...12 once said father learns they don't share DNA. I get it's a horrible, sucky situation. But I'd be interested to know how many TAMMERS would say "see ya, ba***** spawn" to a kid who calls him "Daddy."


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know how many fathers (the term father here is used from the child's perspective - aka who they KNOW and love as their father) would bail on a child who loves them at age 2...5...12 once said father learns they don't share DNA. I get it's a horrible, sucky situation. But I'd be interested to know how many TAMMERS would say "see ya, ba***** spawn" to a kid who calls him "Daddy."


I'd bail on the mother, not the kid but I am honest enough to say that I am not sure it wouldn't affect our relationship at least at first. It's a terrible situation and a really evil thing to do to a person both persons.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Trapezoids have angles.


Emphasis on "Trap"..

I kid.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know how many fathers (the term father here is used from the child's perspective - aka who they KNOW and love as their father) would bail on a child who loves them at age 2...5...12 once said father learns they don't share DNA. I get it's a horrible, sucky situation. But I'd be interested to know how many TAMMERS would say "see ya, ba***** spawn" to a kid who calls him "Daddy."


I would bail so fast. Having any contact with the woman or her spawn would mean victory to the woman from my perspective. Yes the child is innocent but so am I. Why the hell should I have to sacrifice myself because of a *****'s decision? It'll be a slap in the face if later down the line the child wants to have a relationship with the OM (Which is not a rare situation at all.) This is why I always advocate leaving and keeping your self-respect. There's nothing wrong with being selfish in this situation because deceived men don't ask to be in these situations.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BruceBanner said:


> I would bail so fast. Having any contact with the woman or her spawn would mean victory to the woman from my perspective. Yes the child is innocent but so am I. It'll be a slap in the face if later down the line the child wants to have a relationship with the OM (Which is not a rare situation at all.) This is why I always advocate leaving and keeping your self-respect.


Good to know what kind of man you are. It explains who you view women as you do.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Good to know what kind of man you are. It explains who you view women as you do.


Haha. I had an inkling you were that type of woman but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. You really believe a man is in the wrong for abandoning a child that he thought was his but isn't, don't you? So if you ever found one of your sons in a situation like this and he ran as soon as possible you would judge him? It's easy to judge a male you have no biological ties to, but when it's one of their own I think many women out there change their tune (especially when it's their son.).

Also how exactly do I view women to you?


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

I did the DNA over a year ago - just wanted to know what my heritage was. Then my Mom did it a few months ago and when she got the results, told me that I came up has a DNA match - I was her son. 

So I go under my accounts and looked under the DNA matches - which I never looked at before - see my Mom on there as a match as expected. But low and behold, I see that I have two first cousins - that I do not know!! I mean how can that be?? My Mom as a brother a and a sister - and I know all of their kids and my uncle (who is one year younger than my Dad) has a daughter who I know. So what the heck I thought.

So a message both of these people (one is a guy and one a girl). So far I have only heard back from the guy - and low and behold - my Dad's younger brother (who has never been married by the way - he lives with the mother of his only child) - who was an across the road truck driver for 25 years - and claims that he slept with over 85 women - is the father of this guy (my cousin). Turns out that in the early 60's when he was 21 - he had unprotected sex with an 18 year old - she got pregnant and did not tell my uncle!! My uncle wondered why his girlfriend up and moved to Florida - and now he knows - she went there and had the baby boy and put the boy up for adoption.

So I have a new cousin - and tonight - he is going to meet his biological mother (who showed up under his DNA test results) as I encouraged him to contact her because he was so afraid that he was going to mess up her life - she was so glad he contacted her - she had done her test two years ago hoping that he would eventually do one so they could connect. My uncle was in denial for the last three weeks or so - when he talks about his new son - he would say "if" - but, he talked to the mother of his son a few days ago - and now he believes. 

I still have not heard back form my other first cousin - she has not been on the site for over a year. Have not told my uncle about her yet as he has been coming to grips over having a son that he did not know about.

This DNA stuff is powerful!!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Make no mistake this is the endgame of every affair man or women. At the point you have one you are the same time of person as this women's mother, maybe you can change but your actions had the potential to have the same results. Just as disgusting, just as destructive, just as evil. Because it doesn't produce a child doesn't make it any less awful.
> 
> *I really used to believe women (meaning as a gender) were better, more honest, and faithful then men when it came to things like this when I was young, boy has that silly idea gone out the window.
> *
> DNA test for everyone at birth.


There's no question in my mind that women (meaning as a gender) are less faithful and more secretive in their lives than men.
I knew there was a reason why women don't trust other women as much as they trust a man.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

azimuth said:


> She said “I feel betrayed from my family, the ones that did know.”
> 
> That’s the really painful part 😢. She* feels like *they lied to her. It changes everything.


She has been


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> There's no question in my mind that women (meaning as a gender) are less faithful and more secretive in their lives than men.
> 
> I knew there was a reason why women don't trust other women as much as they trust a man.




  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know how many fathers (the term father here is used from the child's perspective - aka who they KNOW and love as their father) would bail on a child who loves them at age 2...5...12 once said father learns they don't share DNA. I get it's a horrible, sucky situation. But I'd be interested to know how many TAMMERS would say "see ya, ba***** spawn" to a kid who calls him "Daddy."


Most would have a problem with doing it beyond a certain point. I could probably do it up to about 2 years or so, and I’d divorce either way.

Doesn’t matter, though, because the bottom line is this: no man should be beholden by law to any child that is not his actual, biological offspring, unless it can be shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that he _knowingly_ accepted that responsibility.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Most would have a problem with doing it beyond a certain point. I could probably do it up to about 2 years or so, and I’d divorce either way.
> 
> Doesn’t matter, though, because the bottom line is this: no man should be beholden by law to any child that is not his actual, biological offspring, unless it can be shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that he _knowingly_ accepted that responsibility.


Exactly. seems like basic justice to me. The wife and OM get to dupe the BH and he gets left with the responsibility. The laws need to change. We have DNA testing now so there is no room for doubt. This topic does raozsie emotions. i know of a case where after huddling with his friends and lawyer a friend of mine disestablished paternity but is still raising the child. His WW before the divorce tried to get him to adopt the kid - no way he was going to fall for that. He still takes the child for visitation but he does so because he wants to and not because some jackass judge told him to.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> Good to know what kind of man you are. It explains who you view women as you do.


Every person has their limits and this might be a limit for many people and not just men. Many women would bail if their WH had a baby with his mistress. However the WH cant lie and tell his BW the baby is hers.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Every person has their limits and this might be a limit for many people and not just men. Many women would bail if their WH had a baby with his mistress. However the WH cant lie and tell his BW the baby is hers.


We all have limits and we all have opinions. My opinion is that any woman who would let a spouse unknowingly raise another pan's child is a bad person. My opinion is also that anyone who would ditch a child who knows them as father after a certain age is also a bad person. Ditch the crappy wife for sure. But I can't imagine the kind of person who could look their 3rd grader, for example, in the eye and say, "Sorry Bas**** spawn. I'm out. You're not mine."


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> We all have limits and we all have opinions. My opinion is that any woman who would let a spouse unknowingly raise another pan's child is a bad person. My opinion is also that anyone who would ditch a child who knows them as father after a certain age is also a bad person. Ditch the crappy wife for sure. But I can't imagine the kind of person who could look their 3rd grader, for example, in the eye and say, "Sorry Bas**** spawn. I'm out. You're not mine."


Agree in principle but I cant judge because I dont know what kind of impact that would have on a man. I cant see loving a kid for 5, 10 years and then abandoning them to a sh!tty mother. But I have never been in that spot and pray I never am. I do know that the most evil person in this scenario is the lying wife. Period.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> There's no question in my mind that women (meaning as a gender) are less faithful and more secretive in their lives than men.
> I knew there was a reason why women don't trust other women as much as they trust a man.


You as a man trust other men? I don't, not ones I don't know well.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> We all have limits and we all have opinions. My opinion is that any woman who would let a spouse unknowingly raise another pan's child is a bad person. My opinion is also that anyone who would ditch a child who knows them as father after a certain age is also a bad person. Ditch the crappy wife for sure. But I can't imagine the kind of person who could look their 3rd grader, for example, in the eye and say, "Sorry Bas**** spawn. I'm out. You're not mine."


You still haven't answered my question. Would you think the same if the person in question was of your own blood?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BruceBanner said:


> You still haven't answered my question. Would you think the same if the person in question was of your own blood?


I must have missed the question. What am I supposed to be thinking the same about?

I have no DNA in common with either of my parents. Thank God they are good people. They love their b**** spawn (me).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know how many fathers (the term father here is used from the child's perspective - aka who they KNOW and love as their father) would bail on a child who loves them at age 2...5...12 once said father learns they don't share DNA. I get it's a horrible, sucky situation. But I'd be interested to know how many TAMMERS would say "see ya, ba***** spawn" to a kid who calls him "Daddy."


I would keep the kids and dump the tramp.


----------



## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I must have missed the question. What am I supposed to be thinking the same about?
> 
> I have no DNA in common with either of my parents. Thank God they are good people. They love their b**** spawn (me).


If your son was a duped "father" what would you think of him and say if he decided to leave and have nothing to do with the child? @personofinterest


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I must have missed the question. What am I supposed to be thinking the same about?
> 
> I have no DNA in common with either of my parents. Thank God they are good people. They love their b**** spawn (me).


Were either of them somehow duped into either loving or raising you?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> If your son was a duped "father" what would you think of him and say if he decided to leave and have nothing to do with the child?


I’ve actually had this conversation with my own mother.

I asked her if she’d want me to raise a child conceived by my wife’s infidelity.

She said yes.

I had to stop talking to her.

Talk about an awkward ride home.


----------



## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> I’ve actually had this conversation with my own mother.
> 
> I asked her if she’d want me to raise a child conceived by my wife’s infidelity.
> 
> ...


It would not surprise me if you or one of your potential siblings were not biologically related to whoever you believe to be your father. Although I sincerely hope I am wrong.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> It would not surprise me if you or one of your potential siblings were not biologically related to whoever you believe to be your father. Although I sincerely hope I am wrong.


Everyone is related to Gengis Khan. There.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> It would not surprise me if you or one of your potential siblings were not biologically related to whoever you believe to be your father. Although I sincerely hope I am wrong.


No worries.

You are.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I’ve actually had this conversation with my own mother.
> 
> I asked her if she’d want me to raise a child conceived by my wife’s infidelity.
> 
> ...


She said this, by the way, with the saddest look I’ve ever seen.

Anyway, what this conversation taught me is that men and women tend to view paternity fraud with very different perspectives, and probably because there’s really no such thing as “maternity fraud”.

Oh, and that the female perspective is both 1) inherently flawed and 2) wrong.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I’ve actually had this conversation with my own mother.
> 
> I asked her if she’d want me to raise a child conceived by my wife’s infidelity.
> 
> ...


You stopped talking to her on the ride home and then resumed speaking to her later? Or you still don't speak to your mother due to her view on this?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> You stopped talking to her on the ride home and then resumed speaking to her later? Or you still don't speak to your mother due to her view on this?


The former.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> She said this, by the way, with the saddest look I’ve ever seen.
> 
> Anyway, what this conversation taught me is that men and women tend to view paternity fraud with very different perspectives, and probably because there’s really no such thing as “maternity fraud”.
> 
> Oh, and that the female perspective is both 1) inherently flawed and 2) wrong.


Perhaps your mother was a victim of paternity fraud or someone she knew.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> Perhaps your mother was a victim of paternity fraud or someone she knew.


If I had to guess, I’ll say that she was wincing at the idea that Mrs. Gus would be capable of such a thing. They’re very close.

There’s also the fact that she chose to divorce my father after a) discovering his affair and b) giving him multiple opportunities to end his affair in order to reconcile.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Evolutionarily speaking, the biggest winner is the man who can procreate and spread his DNA... but not be tied down by having to provide resources to the mate and offspring. The deadbeat dad who has 28 kids by 28 different women.

The absolute biggest loser is the guy who didn't get to spread his DNA but has to endure the hard work of providing resources to the mate and child. 

Being the shmuck who discovers he has been nature's biggest loser for X years... I can't imagine the pain that would cause. Talk about reality-shattering moment. Everything would come into question.

Therefore I can't pass judgment on a man who leaves under those circumstances. I would also be tempted to separate myself from the situation completely and run far away to start over, if I'm being completely honest.

To those who feel such matters of paternity shouldn't matter, your complete lack of empathy is insane and you're the reason we have MGTOW and Redpill dudes taking over male spaces of thought. 

Women who perpetrate a fraud on this level should be buried under the jail.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> Evolutionarily speaking, the biggest winner is the man who can procreate and spread his DNA... but not be tied down by having to provide resources to the mate and offspring. The deadbeat dad who has 28 kids by 28 different women.
> 
> The absolute biggest loser is the guy who didn't get to spread his DNA but has to endure the hard work of providing resources to the mate and child.
> 
> ...


There are two victims in this situation, the kid and the guy and the guy is ONLY a victim. If he can't handle it (which not all can) that is 100% the fault of the mother. The kid's suffering is 100% her responsibility.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

dadstartingover said:


> Women who perpetrate a fraud on this level should be buried under the jail.


Disclaimer: I cannot keep a secret about my sins to those the sins matter to. I stole a piece of gum when I was five and told my mother. I have to confess when I sin or I cannot sleep.

I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


----------



## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Disclaimer: I cannot keep a secret about my sins to those the sins matter to. I stole a piece of gum when I was five and told my mother. I have to confess when I sin or I cannot sleep.
> 
> I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


If they wanted to protect their children they wouldn't have gotten pregnant by another man in the first place thus putting their own children into a sticky predicament. I'm confident that the women who do this do this to protect their own hide and continue living their comfortable life without having to face the consequences of their own actions.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


I understand all of that.

Doesn’t matter, though.

Because the husband shouldn’t have to (literally) pay for her sins either.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sokillme said:


> There are two victims in this situation, the kid and the guy and the guy is ONLY a victim. *If he can't handle it* (which not all can) that is 100% the fault of the mother. The kid's suffering is 100% her responsibility.


Can’t?

LOL

How about “don’t want to”?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

This girl is making a big mistake wanting to find her birth dad.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> This girl is making a big mistake wanting to find her birth dad.


I agree, but she was talking about wanting to know where certain of her features come from. She knew her whole life that somehow she was different than her known family and wondered where these feature came from. Now that she knows there is a way to find out, she wants to go looking. I can understand that.

I think she needs therapy and that her mother should tell the truth for a change.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's going to open a Pandora's box that she won't be able to close.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Disclaimer: I cannot keep a secret about my sins to those the sins matter to. I stole a piece of gum when I was five and told my mother. I have to confess when I sin or I cannot sleep.
> 
> I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


Yes, but you're going down a bit of a rabbit hole with this line of thinking. 

What you describe is a much nicer and softer version of a larger and well-known phenomenon: woman procreates with the higher-ranking "lover" man (d-bag) but siphons monetary and emotional resources from the "provider" (nice guy). It's pretty much every decent man's worst nightmare. Many of us have a taste of it when our wives have affairs. 

We can say "it's what is best for the kid", but the end result is the same.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Can’t?
> 
> LOL
> 
> How about “don’t want to”?


That's fair as well. I don't think he is required to however I think about the 5 year old who you have built a relationship with. I assuming there will be some desire to be with the kid.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> > Can’t?
> ...


Well yeah, normal.people would.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> Disclaimer: I cannot keep a secret about my sins to those the sins matter to. I stole a piece of gum when I was five and told my mother. I have to confess when I sin or I cannot sleep.
> 
> I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


Not sure why that makes a differences. That's like a painless murderer vs a painful one. So the killer does it quick should that even matter, it's still so obscene I don't think think so, you have already reached the point beyond reason. I respect you as a very level headed poster I think we agree on a lot of stuff and I am not discounting your opinion however I think your post highlights the difference of the way men and women think about this. I don't think you ladies can understand, just like we can understand what it's like to carry the child. It's a primal thing. 

I really don't think there is a worse betrayal possible. I think there would be many more men who if you gave them a choice of being childless or having this happen and never even finding out would pick being childless. I am pretty sure I would.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sokillme said:


> That's fair as well. I don't think he is required to however I think about the 5 year old who you have built a relationship with. I assuming there will be some desire to be with the kid.


Again, I’d think most guys wouldn’t be able to completely break ties beyond a certain point.

But should they be able to?

Legally?

Yes, absolutely.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Well yeah, normal.people would.


Why are you so bitter?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Again, I’d think most guys wouldn’t be able to completely break ties beyond a certain point.
> 
> But should they be able to?
> 
> ...


I agree. Though I think it is awful. But again it's 100% the mothers fault.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dadstartingover said:


> Yes, but you're going down a bit of a rabbit hole with this line of thinking.
> 
> What you describe is a much nicer and softer version of a larger and well-known phenomenon: woman procreates with the higher-ranking "lover" man (d-bag) but siphons monetary and emotional resources from the "provider" (nice guy). It's pretty much every decent man's worst nightmare. Many of us have a taste of it when our wives have affairs.
> 
> *We can say "it's what is best for the kid", but the end result is the same.*


But even that’s not true.

What would be best for the kid is for both of its biological parents to get their **** together, get married, and raise the kid together in a loving home.

Why is the BH the one left holding the bag because they can’t manage that?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I agree. Though I think it is awful. But again it's 100% the mothers fault.


Correct all around.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I must have missed the question. What am I supposed to be thinking the same about?
> 
> I have no DNA in common with either of my parents. Thank God they are good people. They love their b**** spawn (me).


If your son was a duped "father" what would you think of him and say if he decided to leave and have nothing to do with the child? @personofinterest


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Well yeah, normal.people would.
> ...


I'm not bitter. I too think NO ONE should have to raise a child by deception.

However, if you have raised a child from birth and have the capacity to love that child.....I just dont think a normal person could walk away from a 6 or 7 year old child who has always called them Daddy.

Walk away from the wife? Definitely. The child who knows them as their only father?

No. I'm sorry. That's when I stop having sympathy. 

Is the woman to blame? Yes. But were talking about a child.

At some point we are responsible for our actions, even in circumstances we didn't choose.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BruceBanner said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I must have missed the question. What am I supposed to be thinking the same about?
> ...


I'd hate his exwife, and I'd think less of him as a man. And I'd hope I could still see my grandchild.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

sokillme said:


> You as a man trust other men? I don't, not ones I don't know well.


Agreed...who are these women cheating with? Space aliens?


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I'd hate his exwife, and I'd think less of him as a man. And I'd hope I could still see my grandchild.


Do you know your biological parents? @personofinterest


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I'd hate his exwife, and I'd think less of him as a man. And I'd hope I could still see my grandchild.


I guess that’s not so weird.

After the aforementioned conversation with my mother, I had a lot less respect for her.

The idea that she’d be so dismissive of such a deep, primal dishonesty isn’t something that I could reconcile given the way that she — and my father — raised me.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I'd hate his exwife, and I'd think less of him as a man. And I'd hope I could still see my grandchild.


In this situation if paternity was disestablished youd have no rights to see your grandchild. 

I think paternity fraud should allow the duped man civil and criminal avenues to get justice. Those perpetrating the fraud should be held legally responsible as well as all those who aid them. I have no illusions that the laws will ever change outside of allowing men more time to disestablish paternity. DNA testing has changed everything.


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## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

It is interesting how the outrage on this thread, which should be 100% directed to the cheating ***** of a woman that lied to her child for all those years, has turned on hypothetical men who (a) suck, (b) abandon the kids that call them "Daddy" and (c) just suck because they are men. You know, there seems to be a lot of unresolved anger on this thread directed at people not even in the original post. I suggest seeking therapy....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I guess that’s not so weird.
> 
> After the aforementioned conversation with my mother, I had a lot less respect for her.
> 
> The idea that she’d be so dismissive of such a deep, primal dishonesty isn’t something that I could reconcile given the way that she — and my father — raised me.


In the case I know of personally it was found out rather early on and his mom still treated the OM's child as her own grandchild including financially. I've seen first hand what drama like this can do to a family. Oh and the WW claimed it was a one time thing - uh huh. lol


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

It's so funny how sad euther-or thinking is. It is possible to think the cheating, deceptive wife is horrible AND think the man who walks away from a child is doing something crappy.

It's not that hard.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> Disclaimer: I cannot keep a secret about my sins to those the sins matter to. I stole a piece of gum when I was five and told my mother. I have to confess when I sin or I cannot sleep.
> 
> I wonder if women who do this sort of thing are protecting their children. They know the OM is a good for nothing jerk and would make a horrid father. They know their husband will be a good father. They are afraid that their children will pay for their sins of their mother. So the mothers remain silent to protect not only themselves, but also their children. I'm not saying these mothers are saints or anything of the sort. They are not. I'm saying that there could be a biological component to the deception.


Of course there is. In fact, biology rules pretty much everything.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> It's so funny how sad euther-or thinking is. It is possible to think the cheating, deceptive wife is horrible AND think the man who walks away from a child is doing something crappy.
> 
> It's not that hard.


When you find yourself in crap, and then decide to get out of it, odds are you’re gonna come out of it with crap all over you.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> It's so funny how sad euther-or thinking is. It is possible to think the cheating, deceptive wife is horrible AND think the man who walks away from a child is doing something crappy.
> 
> It's not that hard.


I think a lot of men not sure what percentage of men will not judge him for walking away after being duped. Would all men walk? No. But many wont judge a man who does. A woman can never be a duped parent and then forced to pay for a child that is not their biological child yet this happens to men everyday.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think a lot of men not sure what percentage of men will not judge him for walking away after being duped. Would all men walk? No. But many wont judge a man who does. A woman can never be a duped parent and then forced to pay for a child that is not their biological child yet this happens to men everyday.


I completely understand why it is soooo unfair. It is telling that the money aspect seems to be the big focus in these discussions.

And really? Every day? Exactly how many women do we think do this? I mean, is that really what men think of women? That explains a lot.

I mean, I don't think a high precentage of men are horrible. I wonder why some men seem to think a high percentage of women are horrible.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> When you find yourself in crap, and then decide to get out of it, odds are you’re gonna come out of it with crap all over you.


But you then have the choice to take a shower or stay stinky forever because of the secondary gain it gives you to stay there.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I completely understand why it is soooo unfair. It is telling that the money aspect seems to be the big focus in these discussions.
> 
> And really? Every day? Exactly how many women do we think do this? I mean, is that really what men think of women? That explains a lot.
> 
> I mean, I don't think a high precentage of men are horrible. I wonder why some men seem to think a high percentage of women are horrible.


What I meant by it happens every day is just that. I never implied that most women are like this. It happens enough to support an entire industry of paternity testing. 

Its not just the money its about being forced by the courts to pay for your wifes affair. And sorry but I'm not sure you can completely understand since it can NEVER happen to you. If you are in a relationship and you partner has a child with someone else he cant bring the baby home and say honey its yours. The WW and the OM are off free and clear and the victim is left to clean up the mess? Is that justice to you?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> It is telling that the money aspect seems to be the big focus in these discussions.


That’s a lazy, simplistic view.

It’s not about money — it’s about time.

As is true of most people, I earn money with _my time_.

To be required to provide for someone to whom I have been unjustly beholden is to require me to spend my time providing for them.

A couple of centuries ago, we used to refer to a much more barbaric version of that as slavery.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> It's so funny how sad euther-or thinking is. It is possible to think the cheating, deceptive wife is horrible AND think the man who walks away from a child is doing something crappy.
> 
> It's not that hard.


I would walk away from the kid if, the child wasn't born yet and I found out or if the child was still very young, maybe up to 6 months, but even at that point, I'm not sure. I genuinely love children and it wouldn't take me very long to fall in love with a child even if not mine by biology.

You are referring to children 2 and up I believe and I don't comprehend how any man or woman could walk away from a child at that point.

I see eye to eye with you on this despite my Y chromosome I guess.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

It could be that the people who could just shake of a child arent parents. That would make sense. Or maybe they are DNA-centric. My ex was that way, and he used the fact that I was adopted to elevate his family above mine. Implying that his parents were "realer" grandparents to our kids than mine, etc.

Yeah, that pissed me off.


----------



## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I completely understand why it is soooo unfair. It is telling that the money aspect seems to be the big focus in these discussions.
> 
> And really? Every day? Exactly how many women do we think do this? I mean, is that really what men think of women? That explains a lot.
> 
> I mean, I don't think a high precentage of men are horrible. I wonder why some men seem to think a high percentage of women are horrible.


Yes paternity fraud happens everyday. The world is a huge place. This shouldn't be a surprise to you or anyone else. If you're so unsure then do your own research. You seem to be in denial and taking other people's claims personally.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I probably am. I'm sensitive about the whole "they're not mine if they dont have my DNA" routine.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think the issue is that in our society the finances are tied to being a "parent" regardless of the circumstances. Thus with false paternity the man becomes legally responsible for the child, which is a huge burden. It directly impacts his future ability to have a family with another woman. For a man this is a BFD, because our ability to procreate is being stolen from a practical standpoint. Finding a woman willing to lose access to that portion of his assets is a real barrier to a new marriage, and the loss of assets will make it much more difficult to raise future biological children of his.

If he attempts to break that financial tie, he will lose any custody or visitation. That's the legal system, which is incredibly unfair.

Which is totally separate from any emotional bond he may have or want.

I believe most men would find it very difficult to break contact with a child after a year, or maybe even a lot less time. Some of my grandchildren are step/adopted, and after a very short time they were fully emotionally part of the family.

But when the child is still quite young the need to break the financial obligation will over ride the still weak emotional bond.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I probably am. I'm sensitive about the whole "they're not mine if they dont have my DNA" routine.


You're ex is a f**king moron to think adopted kids are any less family than biological kids. He must have been fun at parties. That kind of talk really gets me angry. We have adopted kids in my family plus kids through marriage and they are all treated the same. In fact a relatives child married someone with kids do you know what they did? As soon as they were married they added those kids to their total grandchild count. That is how decent people act.When you love another person you simply love them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I would walk away from the kid if, the child wasn't born yet and I found out or if the child was still very young, maybe up to 6 months, but even at that point, I'm not sure. I genuinely love children and it wouldn't take me very long to fall in love with a child even if not mine by biology.
> 
> You are referring to children 2 and up I believe and I don't comprehend how any man or woman could walk away from a child at that point.
> 
> I see eye to eye with you on this despite my Y chromosome I guess.


Conan I agree - I just cant judge those who cant deal with it and leave. I cant fathom how someone can love a child for years and then walk away.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> It's so funny how sad euther-or thinking is. It is possible to think the cheating, deceptive wife is horrible AND think the man who walks away from a child is doing something crappy.
> 
> It's not that hard.


Nah it's only not that hard because you really show little if any empathy for how hard that would be, could you even imagine if everything you believed about your child was a lie. All the history about your relatives, like how their the color of their eye color came from your mother. How much you appreciate them as the fulfillment of years of your love and commitment you and the person you innocently dedicated your life to. 

Only to find out that that all of that was all a lie that was perpetrated on you and this child. Every time you look at the kid you are at once struck with deep love and terrible pain of knowing how you were treated like garbage. The child themselves is a trigger. This child is really the result of the the most important person in your life an her lover both ****ting all over you. The kid is not you and your wife's legacy but your wife and her lovers. 

I am sure it would be similar to a women who gets pregnant via a rape. It's probably easy for you to understand how that INNOCENT life is too much of a trigger to expect her to have to spend a lifetime of taking care of, let alone just 9 months. Just the presence of the child would cause terrible pain. So it is for these men. At best the kid would be a constant dissonance of joy and yet pain, a reminder the one you loved directly lying to you about the most important of all your relationships. That of you and your child. They would be a reminder of years of wasted time on someone who took total advantage of you. The child being a remembrance to her of the affair she had with this thief. 

This really is one of the worst things that can happen to a human being actually both the man and child, it is very clearly a huge and terrible injustice, so the idea that the guy who CAN'T just "suck it up" is an ******* is just bull**** and reads to me and most of us as very callous.

I have said I couldn't abandon the kid but I also can understand those who do. I won't judge them only the snakes whose actions created them.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> It could be that the people who could just shake of a child arent parents. That would make sense. Or *maybe they are DNA-centric.* My ex was that way, and he used the fact that I was adopted to elevate his family above mine. Implying that his parents were "realer" grandparents to our kids than mine, etc.
> 
> Yeah, that pissed me off.


You’ve just described all men.

Every one of us.

Those who claim otherwise are lying.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> But you then have the choice to take a shower or stay stinky forever because of the secondary gain it gives you to stay there.


For a lot of guys there _is_ no “secondary gain”.

Or, if there is, it’s not worth it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> That’s a lazy, simplistic view.
> 
> It’s not about money — it’s about time.
> 
> ...


Besides that if I was a man who doesn't work to take care of my family with the MONEY that I earn I am rightfully seen as a deadbeat and the worst of men. So don't give me a hard time when I think that work and money represent a part of how I show my love to my family. If it is important when I don't do it, it obviously has value when I do. So I have a right to see that as something of value that I should protect and be upset about having to invest it because I was lied to.

Think about it this way. Say I find out that the child isn't mine and I have spent 1 years supporting it. That was a wasted investment but to force me to continue to invest in that child when truthfully the REAL father should be forced to just adds insult to injury. Besides that, that investment in the future could be spend on a kid who wasn't a product of a lie to me. To a kid I had with someone else who was honest and true. So my kid is forced to go into dept to go to college because I have to pay for my ex-wife and her lovers kid, while he pays nothing? 

I don't know how reasonable people who believe in justice can't understand this. The biological father and mother should have to pay for their legacy of abuse, no matter who raise it. That is just common sense. If you want to be angry be angry at the folks who do this ****. I get the anger but it's directed at the wrong people.

My idea is if the biological father can't be found and forced to pay, like say the mother of this video who refuses to name him. Then while the child is a minor the non-biological father can pay (though the state would be better and I would be willing to allow that on this condition). After the child is raised and out of the house, the mother has to pay back all the money she received with interest. It should be withheld from her paycheck and they should be treated just like dead beat dads, jail for not working and all. That would give her intensive to fess up anyway. Either both of them pay or she does. No statue of limitations. If either one of them is 90 years old, get to work.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Thor said:


> I think the issue is that in our society the finances are tied to being a "parent" regardless of the circumstances. Thus with false paternity the man becomes legally responsible for the child, which is a huge burden. It directly impacts his future ability to have a family with another woman. For a man this is a BFD, because our ability to procreate is being stolen from a practical standpoint. Finding a woman willing to lose access to that portion of his assets is a real barrier to a new marriage, and the loss of assets will make it much more difficult to raise future biological children of his.
> 
> If he attempts to break that financial tie, he will lose any custody or visitation. That's the legal system, which is incredibly unfair.
> 
> ...


Yep, and here’s an exercise...

Dude finds out he’s been cuckolded. Kid is how-ever-many years old. He tells his wife that he’s filing for divorce. Additionally, he’s going to have himself delisted as the child’s father so that he’s not obligated to support the child financially.

That said, he’s willing to continue as the child’s father from a practical perspective. After all, the child loves him and vice versa. He also indicates that he’s willing to pay support, but doesn’t want to bound by legal decree to do so.

How long do you think it would take for her to tell him to **** off?


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> How long do you think it would take for her to tell him to **** off?


30 seconds after a consultation with her lawyer. 

The nerve of a woman to say that men only seem to care about the money in this situation. How many women would give full visitation rights to the non biological father while simultaneously taking on 100% of the legal financial responsibility for the child? My guess is somewhere in the .01% range. Maybe less. Even if they didn't place any financial burden on the non biological father, they would certainly seek money from the biological father and/or the state. 

Would it be fair to say women only think about the money? Probably not. They are thinking of what is best for their child. But to pretend money plays no role in their decision making is ludicrous. It probably played a large role in her decision to deceive the non biological father in the first place as well. Money/time/effort spent to raise the kid, the non biological father was the better choice for her child. 

So again, is it fair to say women only seem to care about the money? No. However is it fair to say these men only care about the money as well? No. At the end of the day a woman will do what is best for her child. The difference being is it IS HER CHILD! So they can't fathom not doing whatever it takes for them. Its much easier for a woman then to judge a non biological father for walking away as a bad person. 

They simply don't have the ability to achieve the same level of empathy as a man does in this situation.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > It could be that the people who could just shake of a child arent parents. That would make sense. Or *maybe they are DNA-centric.* My ex was that way, and he used the fact that I was adopted to elevate his family above mine. Implying that his parents were "realer" grandparents to our kids than mine, etc.
> ...


Not my father who raised me, thank God. I guess he's just a better man than most.

I gotta get off forums. What they tell me about the world outside my bubble is just depressing.

And if you're about to respond my dad would have preferred a "real" daughter....I'd advise against it.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Not my father who raised me, thank God. I guess he's just a better man than most.
> 
> I gotta get off forums. What they tell me about the world outside my bubble is just depressing.
> 
> And if you're about to respond my dad would have preferred a "real" daughter....I'd advise against it.


Your father wasn't tricked into raising you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a man walking away from a child he was deceived into thinking was his.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Let's be honest here, this rarely happens. There is a tie that binds thru parenting. Even if there is a divorce, the vast majority of men will still want the relationship. It is usually the birth mother that severs the tie, because the father did not chose the package deal.

The underlying question is the freedom to chose. Should a man be free to chose his destiny when deceived? The hardliners and inflexible say No he should not. The children, even if they are not his takes precedence. He should be forced to pay and stay in the marriage for the good of the child. Empathy for the BS and the damage he is going thru is not relevant.

And if he doesn't, he is a dirty rotten scoundrel, less than a man and unworthy of fatherhood.

The lack of empathy is truly appalling.

Regardless, it is a straw man argument.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Of course he should be free to choose. No one should be forced. A man who is deceived in this way is a victim of a horrible woman.

I have the perfectly valid opinion that I dont understand a man who could raise and love a child for years and then say, sorry, bye.

You dont have to like my opinion, but saying I have no empathy is just a stupid knee jerk tantrum.

Both the man and child are victims. Difference is, the man is an adult.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I am sure it would be similar to a women who gets pregnant via a rape. It's probably easy for you to understand how that INNOCENT life is too much of a trigger to expect her to have to spend a lifetime of taking care of, let alone just 9 months. Just the presence of the child would cause terrible pain. So it is for these men. At best the kid would be a constant dissonance of joy and yet pain, a reminder the one you loved directly lying to you about the most important of all your relationships. That of you and your child. They would be a reminder of years of wasted time on someone who took total advantage of you. The child being a remembrance to her of the affair she had with this thief.


It's not like a child conceived in rape. In that case, the child is the child of the mother. In the case of finding out a child is not biologically yours, but you have been deceived is an entirely different matter.

The women I know whose child was conceived through rape do not dwell on that fact about their child, because the child is her child. She carried the child and loves her child. I realize this may not be true of all women, but the ones I've known love their children no matter how they came to be.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> Let's be honest here, this rarely happens. There is a tie that binds thru parenting. Even if there is a divorce, the vast majority of men will still want the relationship. It is usually the birth mother that severs the tie, because the father did not chose the package deal.
> 
> The underlying question is the freedom to chose. Should a man be free to chose his destiny when deceived? The hardliners and inflexible say No he should not. The children, even if they are not his takes precedence. He should be forced to pay and stay in the marriage for the good of the child. Empathy for the BS and the damage he is going thru is not relevant.
> 
> ...


I'm sure the hardliners and inflexible are mostly comprised of women and the lack of empathy usually comes from women. I'm convinced that women should have no say in laws concerning paternity fraud. What I've learned from paternity fraud is not to trust women, doctors, or lawyers and to always get two tests from two different sources. 

https://canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/Globe_and_Mail_Moms_Little_secret_14DEC02.aspx

@TheBohannons


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> You dont have to like my opinion, but saying I have no empathy is just a stupid knee jerk tantrum.


Actually it isnt. It has been a part of my life experience.

However i do feel the same way about your post, so insult away.

Edit. Not ALL of your posts. Just on this topic.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Not my father who raised me, thank God. I guess he's just a better man than most.


Not the argument I was making, not that it even applies.

Anyway, he _knowingly_ chose to adopt, love, and raise a child that wasn’t his biological offspring. Lots of people do that (including members of my own family).

They aren’t all “good”, though, much less “better”.

If your dad fits that description then congrats.



personofinterest said:


> I gotta get off forums. What they tell me about the world outside my bubble is just depressing.
> 
> And if you're about to respond my dad would have preferred a "real" daughter....I'd advise against it.


By “real” do you mean “biological”? I wouldn’t be so callous as to use the former in place of the latter.

Does your father have biological children?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> It's not like a child conceived in rape. In that case, the child is the child of the mother. In the case of finding out a child is not biologically yours, but you have been deceived is an entirely different matter.
> 
> The women I know whose child was conceived through rape do not dwell on that fact about their child, because the child is her child. She carried the child and loves her child. I realize this may not be true of all women, but the ones I've known love their children no matter how they came to be.


My point is when there is that kind of pain associated with the child due to the horrendous nature of it's conception most people have some empathy for the "parent" not wanting a relationship with them. It's an awful thing, I would hope I would be able to overcome it but I sure is hell am not going to judge someone who has trouble doing so.

If the article is true and it really is 10% which I have heard at least close to before, then it's time for Men to wake up and make mandatory DNA testing a requirement.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

sokillme said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > It's not like a child conceived in rape. In that case, the child is the child of the mother. In the case of finding out a child is not biologically yours, but you have been deceived is an entirely different matter.
> ...


Can't go into a pro life/choice debate without someone bringing up rape as a justification for abortion. It always happens. 

In the case of paternity fraud, at least nobody is advocating for killing the child as a "fix" to the situation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Can't go into a pro life/choice debate without someone bringing up rape as a justification for abortion. It always happens.
> 
> In the case of paternity fraud, at least nobody is advocating for killing the child as a "fix" to the situation.


Again it's about empathy for the situation, not a debate on abortion. Even the most pro-life would agree that it's horrible and only expect the mother to be associated with the child for 9 months. 

Let's stop the thread jack I wasn't trying to go there.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Can't go into a pro life/choice debate without someone bringing up rape as a justification for abortion. It always happens.
> 
> In the case of paternity fraud, at least nobody is advocating for killing the child as a "fix" to the situation.


The only thing stopping the law of nature from taking place in society is the fear of jail and punishment.


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> Everyone is related to Gengis Khan.


And Kevin Bacon...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

sokillme said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > Can't go into a pro life/choice debate without someone bringing up rape as a justification for abortion. It always happens.
> ...


That is kind of my point. There is plenty of empathy for women who find themselves in a tough situation. I say tough putting it lightly. Where as a man will always recieve less empathy. Particularly from women. Must be that "toxic masculinity" I've heard so much about.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Ignore this post.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sokillme said:


> My point is when there is that kind of pain associated with the child due to the horrendous nature of it's conception most people have some empathy for the "parent" not wanting a relationship with them. It's an awful thing, I would hope I would be able to overcome it but I sure is hell am not going to judge someone who has trouble doing so.
> 
> If the article is true and it really is 10% which I have heard at least close to before, then it's time for Men to wake up and make mandatory DNA testing a requirement.


I agree with you that if a woman cannot have a relationship with her child due to the child being conceived from rape that it is understandable. 

Mandatory DNA testing is probably a good idea as well. Men should not be defrauded regarding the paternity of children. It is unjust to defraud a man that a child is his when it is not. However, there are some laws that will need to be changed.

For example, in some states a man who rapes a woman and gets her pregnant from the rape may still have parental rights. Those laws should be repealed. I know a woman who had a child due to rape. She knows who raped her, although he was a stranger at the time of the rape. He has raped other women and been in the news and she recognized him. But she will not press charges against him because he could get visitation with the child when he is released from prison. That is horribly messed up.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Back to the video that this thread is based on, I think this woman's parents are cowards. Her dad knew what the results would be. She called him and he sent her an e-mail so she could compare the results. He should have spoken to her when it happened rather than leaving her to herself.

And her mother. Oh! That woman is a piece of work indeed. She knew her daughter was going to get these results, but she didn't say a thing. Then when asked who the bio father is, the mother refused to tell her. Was it because she seriously doesn't know? Could there be numerous possibilities? Why didn't the mother talk to her daughter and tell her the truth from her own mouth before her daughter found out on her own? Because the mother is a worthless parent and wife. Because she is so myopic that she only cares about herself.

And if the woman ever finds her bio dad, he's probably got 100 children scattered around the country and is dead from a car accident or drug overdose or in prison.

I feel bad for the woman in this video. I wouldn't be surprised if she ended her relationship with her mother and ended up only in a relationship with her dad.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree with you that if a woman cannot have a relationship with her child due to the child being conceived from rape that it is understandable.
> 
> Mandatory DNA testing is probably a good idea as well. Men should not be defrauded regarding the paternity of children. It is unjust to defraud a man that a child is his when it is not. However, there are some laws that will need to be changed.
> 
> For example, in some states a man who rapes a woman and gets her pregnant from the rape may still have parental rights. Those laws should be repealed. I know a woman who had a child due to rape. She knows who raped her, although he was a stranger at the time of the rape. He has raped other women and been in the news and she recognized him. But she will not press charges against him because he could get visitation with the child when he is released from prison. That is horribly messed up.


Agreed I propose that guy be burned at the stake. Fair trial and all first of course we are not barbarians. That would end that problem.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> Back to the video that this thread is based on, I think this woman's parents are cowards. Her dad knew what the results would be. She called him and he sent her an e-mail so she could compare the results. He should have spoken to her when it happened rather than leaving her to herself.
> 
> And her mother. Oh! That woman is a piece of work indeed. She knew her daughter was going to get these results, but she didn't say a thing. Then when asked who the bio father is, the mother refused to tell her. Was it because she seriously doesn't know? Could there be numerous possibilities? Why didn't the mother talk to her daughter and tell her the truth from her own mouth before her daughter found out on her own? Because the mother is a worthless parent and wife. Because she is so myopic that she only cares about herself.
> 
> ...


Did you listen to the other videos. At one point after you skip her shopping at Walmart and stuff she talks to her Mom on the phone. The Mom is like, I did go to a sperm bank one or two times without telling your father. What a piece of work. As far as the Dad goes I don't think he knew but maybe suspected but didn't want it to be true. She goes into detail how he would tell her one thing about her heritage and her Mom would tell her another. Sounds like they were not together anymore (big surprise). 

Wait until she finds out who the Dad is, it will probably someone horrible and not just because of them being low class, but it will be a long time family friend who is married and the Mom is still in best friends with the wife or something. There is a reason she is not saying because if it was just some guy she knew she would say. She is protecting something. 

Try to think about it from the Dad's perspective. Maybe he didn't want the daughter to suffer so why tell her when he doesn't even know for sure. Again the father who loves his daughter is put in an impossible position, I am sure he was hoping against hope that it wasn't true. He told her he would always love her and she is still his family. How does one react to spending a lifetime raising a child only to find out that technically they are not yours. How does one have any basis to know how to react.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> 30 seconds after a consultation with her lawyer.


Probably a lot less time than that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Did you listen to the other videos. At one point after you skip her shopping at Walmart and stuff she talks to her Mom on the phone. The Mom is like, I did go to a sperm bank one or two times without telling your father. What a piece of work. As far as the Dad goes I don't think he knew but maybe suspected but didn't want it to be true. She goes into detail how he would tell her one thing about her heritage and her Mom would tell her another. Sounds like they were not together anymore (big surprise).


 No I only saw the one. Her mother sounds horrid and I’m sure she didn’t go to a sperm bank. 



sokillme said:


> Wait until she finds out who the Dad is, it will probably someone horrible and not just because of them being low class, but it will be a long time family friend who is married and the Mon is still in best friends with the wife or something. Their is a reason she is not saying because if it was just some guy she knew she would say. She is protecting something.


You’re probably right. Maybe her dad has an idea of who the guy was that his wife had the affair with, but couldn’t prove it.



sokillme said:


> Try to think about it from the Dad's perspective. Maybe he didn't want the daughter to suffer so why tell her when he doesn't even know for sure. Again the father who loves his daughter is put in an impossible position, I am sure he was hoping against hope that it wasn't true. He told her he would always love her and she is still his family. How does one react to spending a lifetime raising a child only to find out that technically they are not yours. How does one have any basis to know how to react.


I could understand that, but he should have at least asked her what her results looked like instead of sending her a link to his results. He should have talked to her about it. But obviously he doesn’t have the kind of relationship with his kids that I do with mine. We talk about everything. Sometimes maybe too much.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Did you listen to the other videos. At one point after you skip her shopping at Walmart and stuff she talks to her Mom on the phone. The Mom is like, I did go to a sperm bank one or two times without telling your father. What a piece of work. As far as the Dad goes I don't think he knew but maybe suspected but didn't want it to be true. She goes into detail how he would tell her one thing about her heritage and her Mom would tell her another. Sounds like they were not together anymore (big surprise).
> 
> Wait until she finds out who the Dad is, it will probably someone horrible and not just because of them being low class, but it will be a long time family friend who is married and the Mon is still in best friends with the wife or something. Their is a reason she is not saying because if it was just some guy she knew she would say. She is protecting something.
> 
> Try to think about it from the Dad's perspective. Maybe he didn't want the daughter to suffer so why tell her when he doesn't even know for sure. Again the father who loves his daughter is put in an impossible position, I am sure he was hoping against hope that it wasn't true. He told her he would always love her and she is still his family. How does one react to spending a lifetime raising a child only to find out that technically they are not yours. How does one have any basis to know how to react.


She could easily be lying about going to a sperm bank to protect her own ass.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> She could easily be lying about going to a sperm bank to protect her own ass.


Uh huh. Piece of work.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> I could understand that, but he should have at least asked her what her results looked like instead of sending her a link to his results. He should have talked to her about it. But obviously he doesn’t have the kind of relationship with his kids that I do with mine. We talk about everything. Sometimes maybe too much.


My impression is he told her about the results and gave her a copy. She then called him when they didn't match and that is when he confirmed that he always had a suspicion but as I saw it didn't want to believe it. I am assuming him and his wife have been separated for a long while probably when she was young. Who really knows though it's hard to tell from the video and I just can't watch them driving down the LA freeway talking about how their relationship is going or her boyfriend/husband buying shoes for the kids to find out.

It could also be a big hoax to get people to watch her videos because she looks very Spanish and not Italian at all. It's hard for me to believe she didn't know.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

sokillme said:


> My impression is he told her about the results and gave her a copy. She then called him when they didn't match and that is when he confirmed that he always had a suspicion but as I saw it didn't want to believe it. I am assuming him and his wife have been separated for a long while probably when she was young. Who really knows though it's hard to tell from the video and I just can't watch them driving down the LA freeway talking about how their relationship is going or her boyfriend/husband buying shoes for the kids to find out.
> 
> It could also be a big hoax to get people to watch her videos because she looks very Spanish and not Italian at all. It's hard for me to believe she didn't know.


Looks mean little to nothing. I've seen biracial couples give birth to children that only look like one race.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BruceBanner said:


> Looks mean little to nothing. I've seen biracial couples give birth to children that only look like one race.


According to what she said, her parents are both white. One is of Italian decent, which is where she thought her looks came from. Now she knows that she is not Italian, but Latina.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Back to the video that this thread is based on, I think this woman's parents are cowards.


Yes, the parents are cowards. They are also not honorable and have no integrity, because they lied to their child every day. They would rather their child live a lie, then deal with any personal discomfort. If they told her the truth about her parentage, that would be giving their daughter respect as a person. Instead she probably fees like a prop in their lives for them to pretend that her mother isn't a cheater.

When the adult-child feels lied to, they will not believe anything else that their parents say. The parents will say "it was for your own good." The child will question it. The parents say "bio dad was a deadbeat." The child will question it. If they could lie her whole life about something so big what else are they lying about? Especially in this case where they weren't ever going to tell her, she found out on her own by her own curiosity, makes it so much worse. They didn't think she deserved to know which is the biggest gut punch ever.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

BruceBanner said:


> She could easily be lying about going to a sperm bank to protect her own ass.


She has lied to her daughter for 27 years about her parentage....but why?

Now....if her parents are not together anymore (and it sure sounds from her videos that they are no longer M) then why would she not tell her daughter about the sperm bank and who she chose as a donor?

After all.....there is no shame involved in that, and many medical (including psychological) reasons to let her daughter know the truth.

That doesn’t pass the smell test in my book.

I agree with you....but would put it as ‘more than likely’ rather than ‘could be’ on why the mom lied.

This woman most probably had an A and perpetuated paternity fraud on her then H.....who suspected, but for some reason never sought the truth.

And the reason she has lied for nearly three decades is too keep the truth of her sh*tty behavior a secret from her exH who she has had fund her OC.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I completely understand why it is soooo unfair. It is telling that the money aspect seems to be the big focus in these discussions.
> 
> *And really? Every day? Exactly how many women do we think do this?* I mean, is that really what men think of women? That explains a lot.
> 
> I mean, I don't think a high precentage of men are horrible. I wonder why some men seem to think a high percentage of women are horrible.



Yes. Every day. And it has nothing to do with "what men think about women" but rather everything to do with cold hard facts. Which have been established through studies.

There are studies that will show that Paternity Fraud/Paternal Mismatch occurs in percentages that range from about 4-5% to up to 10%. (There are some highly selected studies where up to about 1/3 of the kids didn't match the purported father, but those studies are of a selected population where there was reason to be suspicious, so are not really representative of the population at large).

So, let's take the more conservative 4-5% number and think about what that means. That's about 1 in 20-25. That means, on the average, in any typical grade school classroom of 30-35 kids, you would expect to have 1 or 2 children of Paternity Fraud.

Do you know any gay people? Do you think it is rare to meet a gay person? Well, according to Wikipedia, the percent that self-identifies as gay/lesbian is 2.6% in the New York metro area, 2.7% in the Los Angeles area, 3.1% in the Chicago metro area....that means the percentage of children resulting from Paternity Fraud is almost TWICE the percentage of self-identified homosexuals in New York. 

Do you know any Asian people? In the US. Asians represented 5.8% of the US population in the 2010 census, according to Wikipedia. A little over 1 in 20. That means you are ALMOST as likely to meet a child of Paternity Fraud as you are to meet an Asian. 

I could go on, but I think I made my point. Paternity Fraud is NOT rare. And you don't have to have a misogynistic outlook to think it is common, you just have to know the facts. 

Facts matter.

The young lady in the OP's initial posting is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> There are studies that will show that Paternity Fraud/Paternal Mismatch occurs in percentages that range from about 4-5% to up to 10%.


A study published a few years ago reported a number in the middle of your range. What was interesting is that the number was consistent across socio-economic lines. It would be easy to assume false paternity is much more likely in certain classes, but it isn't. 

Even more interesting to me is that the more children within a family where the husband is the presumed father of the children, the more children there are the higher the probability a child is not his. These days the populations with larger families _with married parents_ (not step-parents) are generally more conservative or religious. Catholic and Mormon. They are generally more affluent rather than poor. I would expect these more traditional and religious families to have lower false paternity, not higher.

I'll be doing dna testing on my kids' kids, though grandparent-grandchild testing is currently not very reliable.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

sokillme said:


> My impression is he told her about the results and gave her a copy. She then called him when they didn't match and that is when he confirmed that he always had a suspicion but as I saw it didn't want to believe it. I am assuming him and his wife have been separated for a long while probably when she was young. Who really knows though it's hard to tell from the video and I just can't watch them driving down the LA freeway talking about how their relationship is going or her boyfriend/husband buying shoes for the kids to find out.
> 
> It could also be a big hoax to get people to watch her videos because *she looks very Spanish and not Italian at all. It's hard for me to believe she didn't know.*


You do know there are autonomous regions of Italy where people have dark skin..just like there are regions in spain were people are very fair and light skinned.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BobSimmons said:


> You do know there are autonomous regions of Italy where people have dark skin..just like there are regions in spain were people are very fair and light skinned.


Of course, it's just my opinion and of course it's stereotypical and not PC.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I recall seeing a report on one of the morning news shows covering a couple of identical twins and the numbers that each of them received following their testing (via the same provider) — they each came back with completely different percentages for their racial makeup.
> 
> I hadn’t heard about test results being intentionally modified. If true I hope the perpetrators spend plenty of time in prison.


The company doing this was 23&Me. An investigation into their practices resulted in a non-response from them on one of the morning radio shows from WAMU. My brother had his paternal DNA run on Ancestry.com and it only confirmed what we knew, that our male ancestors are all English Isles, Scottish or Scandinavian (probably before they were the former). Like many American families, we have family lore that my grandmother's grandmother was Native America, our great-grandmother practiced Native traditions. But I'm not going to a commercial DNA site to test the premise. I'm glad the Golden State Killer/East Area Rapist was caught using these types of genetic databased, but I don't know that I want to find the long lost serial killer in my DNA a few generations back.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I wasn't able to sit through this girl's entire videos. She has severe ADD or something because I rarely heard one coherent thought come out of her. Is this how all the young generation of women talk?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> I wasn't able to sit through this girl's entire videos. She has severe ADD or something because I rarely heard one coherent thought come out of her. Is this how all the young generation of women talk?


I couldn't either for the same reason.

No, this is not how all young women of this generation talk. I have two daughters 21 and 24. They don't talk like that at all.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> I couldn't either for the same reason.
> 
> No, this is not how all young women of this generation talk. I have two daughters 21 and 24. They don't talk like that at all.


Thank god...cuz like....you I have...like....this aversion...you know like....to bad grammer...

...like....


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> I was the opposite. As a child I was fascinated by Greek mythology rather than stupidity of Disney movies (sorry to the fans) and remember being struck by the image of men turning into stone when they looked into the eyes of Medusa. I think this saved me getting involved with women where I felt a high likelihood that they would 'turn me into stone' and crumble my heart.
> But I would have thought that as an adult, it is not a big secret anymore that people do ****ty things, men or women.


Ah, you only just avoided the coast of the Sirens, then?


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

So being adopted, I know that I have literally NOTHING in common with my parents. They are loving and caring souls who raised me by crook and by nook. I am hardly the poster child for them unfortunately...

I have never went to go looking for my birth parents. Never really wanted to. My sister (also adopted) did...And she had, I guess a good experience but nothing lasting that I knew of. I remember my parents feeling hurt and sad when my sister said she was going to look for her birth mom. I could never do that. 

Also, I have another point of view that I found out. Why give these people who gave up on me the satisfaction of knowing ANYTHING of me...My parents did all the work. And all the love. I just don't think that giving the satisfaction is something that I have to do. Now, if they came looking for me, I wouldn't be spiteful. I just wouldn't do the heavy lifting there...

This whole DNA becoming so common place is scary. Its just so hard to place value on one's own roots and belief systems. I myself have resisted looking, though my family wants to know for medical reasons. I'm more scared that I will have more in common with a troglodyte than a proud and upstanding person. I guess it would be the fear of the unknown than anything else, but it is still unsettling that I may find more of "Pandora" in my profile that explains alot of my quirks and failings...

Who knows.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Thank god...cuz like....you I have...like....this aversion...you know like....to bad grammer...
> 
> ...like....


Uh, what?! 

haha

Here's my eldest when she was 20 doing a video. 



No trouble trying to understand or follow what she's talking about.

She's so cute. She also sounds almost exactly like me.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree, but she was talking about wanting to know where certain of her features come from. She knew her whole life that somehow she was different than her known family and wondered where these feature came from. Now that she knows there is a way to find out, she wants to go looking. I can understand that.
> 
> I think she needs therapy and that her mother should tell the truth for a change.


And her Mom should pay for the therapy.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TeddieG said:


> And her Mom should pay for the therapy.


Absolutely!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> Uh, what?!
> 
> haha
> 
> ...


Very impressive young woman.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Very impressive young woman.


Thank you. She is a blessing to me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Uh, what?!
> 
> haha
> 
> ...


I'm getting old......

She looks 15..... Maybe....ugh:wink2:


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I'm getting old......
> 
> She looks 15..... Maybe....ugh:wink2:


haha At least her husband looks like a baby too. He's finally growing into a man face and they are both 24. When their first child was born, they both looked like teen parents.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So being adopted, I know that I have literally NOTHING in common with my parents. They are loving and caring souls who raised me by crook and by nook. I am hardly the poster child for them unfortunately...
> 
> .....Also, I have another point of view that I found out. Why give these people who gave up on me the satisfaction of knowing ANYTHING of me...My parents did all the work. And all the love. I just don't think that giving the satisfaction is something that I have to do. Now, if they came looking for me, I wouldn't be spiteful. I just wouldn't do the heavy lifting there...
> 
> ...


I had a mother who was adopted. Her adopted parents were always her parents, they were my grandparents. They passed on their love and culture and heritage to several generations. Through DNA testing I found out who her biological parents were and know quite a bit about them, I even have a prison mug shot, You are right to be concerned about what you may find out. I was not pleased, except by the fact that my mother was loved by a wonderful couple. It was good that my mother was adopted by the loving family that raised her.

As was pointed out there is a huge difference between a sperm donor and a father. A father and mother provide nurturing, guidance and love. 

DNA testing is providing a lot of rude surprises to many, as to genetics, but not to love and caring.


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## Mstanton (Feb 8, 2011)

10% of all human beings are not fathered by the man they believe is their biological father. Always get a paternity test. Always.


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