# Need Experienced Advice Regarding Affair



## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm semi-happily married, on a 1 to 10, about a 7. Based on all the other married couples I know, we are about average. Been married for 11 years. We have a great family life and good relationship. However there has always been something missing in the bedroom. I'm much more creatively erotic than my wife. I/We have bought toys, books, videos, games, etc. Naturally the *spark* has diminished a bit over time but we still probably have sex more often than a lot of married couples.

The problem is, for years, day after day, week after week, I've always felt something was missing, a longing for *more*. I've communicated to my wife very clearly and multiple times about roleplaying fantasies, fetishes, etc. She has very infrequently made a so-so effort. It's like Valentines, Anniversary, and my Birthday are the only times I can count on some decent creativity and effort. That's not enough for my libido and we both know it. We just think differently that way. She's more easily satisfied with more conservative/traditional/vanilla sex, I'm not. We're not THAT far apart but we are far apart enough that it is frequently on my mind.

I feel like I've put forth good effort to communicate my needs but she just doesn't have the "skills" and/or shared enthusiasm to pull it off.

I have to admit I've searched elsewhere for better fulfillment in the area? Phone/WebCam Sex - boring/unfulfilling and completely impersonal, yuk. Strip Clubs - I've found a place to get lap dances where the gal will make me have an orgasm and it does (sadly) rival the typical eroticism I experience in my bedroom usually, but it is brief, limited, and costly. I also done a couple sessions with a Professional Mistress/Dominatrix. That was a blast. No intercourse involved of course, but that was probably the only time I was really feeling satisfied. But way too costly to do it with any degree of frequency.

So you are probably guessing where I'm headed and probably most of the married women on here want to slap me. I don't want an affair per se. That is, I'm not seeking a close/deep connection friendship with someone else. I just want to see what it feel likes to "play" with someone that has the same interests/appetite and level of erotic creativity as myself. Sex is only a part of the relationship and it is fine in mine, BUT, I never got the chance to fully explore my interests before getting married, and my wife is just not, well, kinky enough. I have to stress it I am 101% sure this is not a big enough problem to end my marriage on, not even close. But life is short.

So here's the problem. Although my wife knows that she's falling a little short of my "bar" she would not condone me experimenting with someone else even if it was safe, consensual, and purely erotic/sexual. She much more conservative and less open minded than me. I would be fine letting her explore if she were in my shoes as long as it didn't diminish significantly the quality and frequency of our own sexual relationship. The problem is most women I believe (not all) need an emotional connection which would then risk it turning into a full affair. I think men are better programmed to keep it to just sex. So, I would have to be discrete. But she also freaked out one time when I told her I called a phone sex line! So in a sense, I've already broken her trust with the phone sex, strip clubs, and Dominatrix. I do at some times feel guilty walking out of the strip club, but then it passes because I feel like it is therapy for me, just like someone might get physical therapy, or counseling. It's a release for me that my wife can't provide.

So to get to the point of this novel I'm writing. I'm on the edge of going ahead and meeting a woman who is in pretty much the exact same situation as me for a few brief, infrequent encounters just to see what it would feel like to for once have my needs met, and frankly, take joy in doing the same for someone else. Neither is interested in a frequent, emotionally initimate, long-term relationship. It's sort of like going on a trip with someone.

The unknown that has me pausing a little, is not knowing for sure how I'm going to feel if I go through with it. I know a lot of people here would probably say by even asking that question in the first place is a bad sign. I think not necessarily so. It just shows I'm not completely devoid of morals and care about other people.

So, I'm really curious if there is anyone else out there that was in a very similar situation that did go through with it, how did it turn out for you and do you have any specific advice. Oh and as a side note, I recently caught her discussing some fantasy she had about an old boyfriend with her girlfriends. To be honest, that probably had something to do with me more seriously consider taking some action.

Please, if you haven't had actual experience in this type of situation, please don't just reply to pass judgement on me.

Thanks in advance.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

conarc7220 said:


> probably most of the married women on here want to slap me.


But you'd like that though, wouldn't you? 

I had exactly the same experience as you for many years. Recently, things took off with my wife, and now she is even starting to suggest things I have not even fantasised about - yet.

There is a thread on here about us, but it needs updating, as things are now even better than it states: 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/3010-20-years-august-married-18-years.html

There are all sorts of details missed out, but it gives you an idea.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks for the post. I read the thread. It was helpful. To be honest, I do think we have gave it our 110% full effort to try to resolve my lack of fulfillment in the sex department. But frankly I'm sure she lacks fulfillment in the emotional connection dept. My personality is just very typical traditional bring-home-the bacon head of household male and when times are tough you need to suck it up because someone else has it way worse than you. So her being unfulfilled emotionally provides disincentive to her to make more of an effort in the sex dept. But it really isn't that bad as I've stated. But this statement in the article you read really rang home for me:

"Don't get me wrong, we were at it maybe 3-4 times per week, but I just felt that she was doing it either to keep me quiet, or to sooth her nervous system from time to time, like a taking a vitamin pill."

The main reason I'm seriously considering external experimentation is because I've been with my wife for 11 years and feel I now her personality very very well and personalities don't change significantly in my mind so something like professional help in this area my gut (which usually serves me very well) is saying it would be a dead end and waste of money. You either have that x-factor in your personality or you don't. She doesn't, just like I don't have that empathetic/emotional x-factor in my personality. But no one is 'perfect' for each other - that is a fairy tale.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Either get permission from your wife, or file divorce before you do it. You disrespect your wife greatly just by seriously entertaining the idea. Do you have children? If so how do you think it will effect them when your wife finds out? How about your families, friends, coworkers?

You and the other lady are both in a needy situation. While you may not be looking for an emotional connection - just sex. Who can say what she is looking for? Women who don't have some level of emotional connection with someone they are having sex with are rare. You think it will be uncomplicated and without strings - until the other woman decides to complicate it by calling your wife out of jealousy or something else. You think it will be a one time thing - but what about in six months when your bored again. It will keep repeating itself because you have an unresolved issue at home. Its like the drug addict - I just want to experiment once and see what its like - then they are hooked.

You say that "no one is 'perfect' for each other - that is a fairy tale." Well I hate to tell you, but the idea of having your cake (your loving wife waiting at home) and eating it too (the girlfriend waiting to sooth your sexual urges across town) is a fairy tale as well. either step it up and address her emotional connection issues which will in turn lead to your sexual issues improving or cut her loose to find a man that will love and respect her as she needs.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

P.S. Thanks for being constructive in your response instead of critical and judgemental. I'm not here to discuss right and wrong, I'm here to read about others experiences. Posted this on another forum and of course started getting attacked by married women and the self-righteous.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I have this same issue. It's very very good in many ways. She's wonderful. I just crave a little more excitement and not sure she can ever give it.

Sometimes it's so frustrating that I can literally spell out what turns me on, and she doesn't do it for me. We've been married 15 years and I react extremely positively to pink lipstick. She knows this. Guess how long she has refused to wear it.... I'm NOT getting divorced or cheating over _lipstick... _but FFS.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

conarc7220-

I beg to differ Sir. I had no idea how hot my wife was capable of being. I can't even write on these pages some of the things we get up to 

What really turned our marriage round was joining forums like this. About 3 or 4 guys on the internet mentored me and taught me how to unlock a woman's drive. That and divine grace I guess.

If you look at my posts in this section of the forum, you will see that I give out a few techniques. Do a search on the word SONAR - that is the killer app 

I have this egotistical fantasy... do you remember _Quantum Leap_? I like to imagine -when I read some of the really tough threads written by men like your self- that if I could "leap" or swap bodies with the thread poster, I would have his wife in top gear within 2 weeks.

As I said before, I learned all this from other men. I don't even think I'm that good at it. It's just that I was very teachable, and keen to learn.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

conarc7220 said:


> Posted this on another forum and of course started getting attacked by married women and the self-righteous.


They are offline picking the kids up from school. You'll be gutted like a fish in about an hour. :rofl:


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Points well taken. I'm looking for someone that can speak from experience. Are you one of them (NOT being on the "faithful" side?)

I've been going to strip clubs the whole time we've been married and she has no clue. Thinking getting found out will happen is being presumptuous and assuming a low level of intelligence on my part which isn't the case. Well, that's begging for someone like yourself to add, you have a low level of intelligence considering this. It's alright, I can take it. 

But it's still not the experiential references like the first poster that I'm looking for. I'm sure plenty of other "cheating bastards" I'm sure you can go find to pass judgement on. 

Come to think of it, I don't think anyone has considered such action and went through with it has posted yet - or at least pretended to have that experience? 

I realize there are stones still unturned regarding improving the relationship in that area, but that would be a different thread. I know it is hard for people to address the original question. I appreciate the suggestions though on what to do to improve the situation. Still really wanting to here some people that went through with it, that were in similar situations.







TNgirl232 said:


> Either get permission from your wife, or file divorce before you do it. You disrespect your wife greatly just by seriously entertaining the idea. Do you have children? If so how do you think it will effect them when your wife finds out? How about your families, friends, coworkers?
> 
> You and the other lady are both in a needy situation. While you may not be looking for an emotional connection - just sex. Who can say what she is looking for? Women who don't have some level of emotional connection with someone they are having sex with are rare. You think it will be uncomplicated and without strings - until the other woman decides to complicate it by calling your wife out of jealousy or something else.
> 
> You say that "no one is 'perfect' for each other - that is a fairy tale." Well I hate to tell you, but the idea of having your cake (your loving wife waiting at home) and eating it too (the girlfriend waiting to sooth your sexual urges across town) is a fairy tale as well. either step it up and address her emotional connection issues which will in turn lead to your sexual issues improving or cut her loose to find a man that will love and respect her as she needs.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Atholk said:


> I'm NOT getting divorced or cheating over _lipstick... _but FFS.


I almost got to the point where I thought I might get divorced over pink lipstick (or it's equivalent). I started to think, what is the big deal?

But I'm really glad I didn't.

But I have to tell you guys, not only is the sex better, but our intimacy is much deeper. The two came as a packages. We are like two side of a coin now. We often open our mouths and speak the same words in unison! 

The truth is, that in order to have a good sex life after 20 years, you simply have to be in tune with each other. And when I'm 99 and having trouble getting it up 3 times a day, hopefully the intimacy will keep us going 'till one of us kicks the bucket


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Atholk said:


> They are offline picking the kids up from school. You'll be gutted like a fish in about an hour. :rofl:


She ain't kidding, post as much as you can now, and RUN


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Yep I'm experienced. I used it as an excuse that it was making my marriage better. I was happier with my husband, blah blah blah. Turns out he was doing the same thing. We ended up divorced and hurting people worse than we would of if we had just divorced.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Oh and I'm not passing judgment - I'm telling you that if that's what you want to do - then get permission - be proud of it and don't hide behind it if you think its such an ok thing to do. I don't presume you have a low level of intelligence. I actually never got caught. My ex husband still doesn't know. But it doesn't make it ok.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Can you elaborate more on how you thought it was making the marriage better? Thanks.



TNgirl232 said:


> Yep I'm experienced. I used it as an excuse that it was making my marriage better. I was happier with my husband, blah blah blah. Turns out he was doing the same thing. We ended up divorced and hurting people worse than we would of if we had just divorced.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Here's something I forgot to mention which is maybe the main reason why I don't have a lot of hope that things can be "fixed." To be honest, I had girlfriends that were much better in bed than my wife ever was, even from day 1. But as I mentioned before, sex is just one part of a relationship. Everyone is deficient in one area or the other. None of use are perfect. So it's not like I'm saying things were great, I was satisfied at the beginning and then they went downhill - if I did say that then I made an error. So Mark Twain, I'm guessing at the very beginning of your marriage you were satisfied with your sex life? Or were you REALLY in the same boat as me?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Some people manage to have the odd extra marital affair without causing fireworks. But it usually means gaining the permission of the other person. Then of course it's not cheating. 

Unfortunately, the people best suited to this are the ones that get on so well they don't *need *to do it! It's the need that is the killer.

If you get your marriage so tuned up that your wife falls in love with you even deeper than she was before, you would probably find that she would *happily *let you go to a strip club or worse. My wife's only comment would be - what a waste of money


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

See the reason it I felt like it made my life better wasn't the sex - it was the fact that I felt desired for more than just sex. There was an emotional connection - they were my friends before they were my lovers - but I was never 'in love' with them. Which made me more tolerant of my husband. Which made me feel like my marriage was better because the fights decreased. I really just needed to get out of my marriage if I was so unhappy - which is what eventually happened.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

conarc7220 said:


> So Mark Twain, I'm guessing at the very beginning of your marriage you were satisfied with your sex life? Or were you REALLY in the same boat as me?


After about 10 years, I used to bang my head against the fricking wall, if that answers your question!

The sex we have now is much better than the sex we had to start with 20 years ago. And it's a hundred times better than the sex we had in the middle.

Looking at it from a different angle, there are two main aspects to sex:

1)The chemistry and the physical.
2)The mental buzz.

With us, the mental aspect was not being attended to. I complained about it all the time. She never complained, but later on I discovered that she wanted it just as badly as me, but she kept her dissatisfaction secret. 

So I just fell for her prim and proper act. Nothing could be further form the truth.

And your wife is probably just the same. The more up tight she seems, the more material there is to work with. I'm not making this up. This is fact as far as I'm concerned. Your wife has fantasies that would blow your mind.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

This is a good example I think of how it is different for women than men. Your deal was with a friend - much different (I think) than a couple brief encounters with a stranger. I'm not saying one is better than the other, don't get me wrong.

I will admit though, we argue more when we haven't had sex for a while. My frustration spills over into grumpyness which then feeds a negative feedback loop all the way around. So yes, maybe there would be less argueing if I was "getting my needs met" but I've also found I get more apt to criticize the other person when I'm feeling guilty/bad about my own actions. It's really a no brainer that to go through with it without her knowledge is both selfish and not the best decision. I'm not stupid, nor am I really that selfish - I'm just okay to admit. There's no one on this planet that can't say they were selfish (probably multiple times in their life) which resulted in negatively effecting someone else. That's not an excuse, that's just reality.

I envy the couples in which the women realizes for some men, sex is sometimes just that, sex, and as long as they are safe and there is no relationship going on outside the sex, they let their man do whatever they want. Everyone draws the lines somewhere. Some wives would be offended/hurt if their husband admitted to masturbating while fantasizing about having sex with another women, many would not. Some would say a lap dance is cheating, many would not. Some would say rub and tug and massage parlor IS cheating, some would not. 

I realize it is all about trust. But to be hones, on multiple ocassions in my many years I made the mistake of being TOO honest. Admitting to the phone sex was one of them. I had no idea she would think it was THAT big of a deal, and some wives wouldn't. But that was early on in the marriage.




TNgirl232 said:


> See the reason it I felt like it made my life better wasn't the sex - it was the fact that I felt desired for more than just sex. There was an emotional connection - they were my friends before they were my lovers - but I was never 'in love' with them. Which made me more tolerant of my husband. Which made me feel like my marriage was better because the fights decreased. I really just needed to get out of my marriage if I was so unhappy - which is what eventually happened.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Why don't you do her a favor and leave her rather than hurt her in a way you simply cannot imagine?

Read the infidelity posts and see what it is that you're doing to her. When she finds out, and she will, you will see what gutted actually looks like.

If you don't want the judgement, perhaps you shouldn't post so coldly about what you are doing to someone you promised to love and honor. I could care less about what you're not getting at home at this point. You've already gone so far over the line it isn't funny.

BTW, I read your original post but felt sick to my stomach for your wife so I didn't respond right away.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Not being judgmental - man to man - the scary thing about an affair is your are giving your affair partner the power to destroy your marriage with a single phone call. I would not give someone that much power over me. 

As for your wife. I think if you asked my wife about her emo needs she would say I satisfy them 100 percent. Which is why she routinely asks me how she can make our sex life - which is already incredible - even better. 

And I did the traditional - sole breadwinner thing for our first 19 
years. Bringing home a big paycheck is a nice start, but I didn't look at it as that was enough to keep her in love with me. Cause it isn't. So why not work on making her more in love with you - and then work on her expressing that love more in the bedroom. 





conarc7220 said:


> Here's something I forgot to mention which is maybe the main reason why I don't have a lot of hope that things can be "fixed." To be honest, I had girlfriends that were much better in bed than my wife ever was, even from day 1. But as I mentioned before, sex is just one part of a relationship. Everyone is deficient in one area or the other. None of use are perfect. So it's not like I'm saying things were great, I was satisfied at the beginning and then they went downhill - if I did say that then I made an error. So Mark Twain, I'm guessing at the very beginning of your marriage you were satisfied with your sex life? Or were you REALLY in the same boat as me?


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

WOW. Let me tell you, I'm an "analyst" at heart and by profession. I was running a bulletin board on an Apple IIe 25 years ago before the Internet was even invented. 

Out of all the discussion boards, for ANY subject, be it Plasma TV's or Vitamins, I've never seen more thoughtful responses than this! But it makes sense, its about one of the most important things in life, marriage, not a Plasma TV!

MT's wife, that is the best post by far I've ever read in response to *ANY* of my questions on *ANY* subject. The fact you two will take the time to respond like that gives me inspiration to pass any advice on other subjects I think I have expertise on. Bravo.

Your situation sounds very similar, and I realize there are probably many other men/couples in the same boat. I'm also sure everything will work out no matter what I do. We have a foundation, and I'm not going to do anything totally stupid. But here's the honest truth....

While I know we can improve our marriage in the sex area, I think for some people, there is always a higher mountain to climb so to speak? I may be one of those people. I'm definitely not going to be some "chronic cheater" but to be honest with myself, I was a straight A student in school (almost flunked engineering school though because I became jaded with the formal education system in America (what a rip-off) because I never went to class though) but I've got the personality that is always looking for the "next new thrill" The problem is, I fell in love, deeply in love, with someone that is far different from me in that thrill-seeking/open-minded aspect.

Then add to that the fact that to be honest, in my own mind, I've already broken the trust going to the strip club any way. While most wouldn't find that a total violation of the relationship, my wife is just very conservative in that way. She CAN get pretty crazy in bed, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to be aroused by other women, even if it is purely just "adult entertainment" she's not cool with it, but I am, even if it is her with other men! So we have a bit of an unforeseen mismatch on that level. I'd have no problem with her going to a male strip club.

So deep down I feel "I already screwed up" in her eyes (even if she doesn't know it.) So I'm like what the heck, what's the difference between a lap dance and a shag. It's just physical . (I know, spoken like a true stupid male.)

The thing is, I WANT to put that extra effort, the 110% into the aspect of our relationship, and I'm pretty sure I will no matter what happens! But I'm a person that wants to jump out of that airplane, ride in that top-fuel funny car, do the bungy jump, just to see what it is like, what I'm missing! Maybe just to confirm, the grass really ISN'T that green on the other side of the fence! Because I believe when you find out, it's not about the act itself, its the WANTING/ANTICIPATION (I'm no slouch - I understand the psychology behind all this), then you become more appreciative of what you already have! But sometimes I think we just need to be reminded.

Bottom line I know I'm being selfish, but I'm an explorer, she's not. So do I hold myself back based on what might happen or might not, or do I just "go there" so what it is like, THEN draw my conclusions and live with the guilt should it turn out to be unfulfilling?


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Here's one other thought -- a "big picture" take on all this. In any relationship, the partners are never going to match the other partner's needs perfectly. Maybe one partner lovew to shop and the other hates to hang out in department stores. Maybe one partner is really into mountain biking to their best ability and the other partner just doesn't like to ride mountain bikes much at all, or just plain can't keep up! - they are more of a pavement cruiser. So then the question begs, why is sex any different than mountain biking or shopping in a relationship. It's an activity you can or can't do together. I know I'm oversimplifying things to an extent (and you can accuse me of trying to "stack the cards in my favor") BUT, it really DOES boil down to an individual's values and the Protestant/Christian values that have been passed down from generation to generation without much examination. But that's getting REALLY BIG PICTURE. But it really IS relevant. I'm sure many books have been written on it. We've got families in Utah with men with multiple wives that I don't agree with! 

I know, I know, it all really boils down to the values/beliefs of your spouse and honoring those, even if you might not fully agree with them. We didn't get married blindly. Any married couple, even happily married for 50+ years, would agree you learn more and more about your spouse, forever. It's just coping with the things that are surprisingly a bit contradictory to your own thinking that can be difficult to work out. Now I'm just getting too philosophical here. But I wanted to say it anyway. It does matter and it is an interesting perspective on relationships, at least I think.


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## American Arrogance (Sep 5, 2008)

I beg to differ on women always needing an emotional attachment. Im female and Im cool with casual sex. My husband was with another woman and that developed into an emotional affair along with sex on both parts. Me on the other hand, feels like you. Im more into the wild crazy non vanilla stuff. I attend sex classes, go to swingers clubs and trying to live a full poly life (now hubby and I are seperating). I was not there emotionally for him and he was not there sexually for me.


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## coffee bean (Apr 3, 2009)

A question for you - how old are you both and do you have kids and/or full-time jobs?

Also, were you more experimental at the start of your relationship?

In the meantime a few comments:

I could be totally wrong here, but no matter how sensible, committed, monogamous etc she behaves, I would bet you anything that there are times in her cycle (ovulation/just before period) when other men (friends, colleagues, men in the street) turn her on big time. Not that she's going to tell you about it. Women do not need to go to strip clubs to get turned on - for good married wives it's our everyday but secret version. 

When I was in my good christian/spiritually-minded wife and mother mode, I still used to get wild crushes on other guys, and never tell - just fantasised a lot!! Some of them were his friends and wild horses wouldn't have dragged it out of me. 

Mountain biking and shopping ARE different to the sex thing because they are not about having the hots for the person you share the activity with, and I disagree that you have to be mismatched forever. You can have what you want, - though it might take a while to open her Pandora's box and it might be a rollercoaster ride when you do.

If you manage, with great skill, to unlock your wife's wild side, not only will you get better sex, but you may find, if you *subtly* sound her out, that she is also curious about other guys/girls. Be prepared for anything.

Women are brought up to keep a tight lid on the true extent of their sexuality. You might think you know her but you don't. 11 years is a short time: you ain't seen nothin yet. Your wife might be buttoned up at the moment, but encourage her bit by bit to feel ok about trusting you with her deep dark secrets, (you must maintain a good-humored, fun attitude), and you'll learn surprising stuff. 

Don't put her down in your mind as not having a wild or unconventional sexuality. This is important: I would advise you NEVER to make her feel sexually inferior or dwarfed by your own sexuality (ask me how I know). Encourage her to believe in, and allow her to express, the full extent of her sexuality. But you must be totally prepared for it not being what you expect. At some point she might scare you with a longing to go to BDSM parties, for example, or have a desire for MMF or FFM. Be careful what you wish for because it may turn out to be more than you can handle, and you will not get the genie back in the bottle!!

For starters:

Get her books of erotic short stories and fantasies and watch carefully for where the books fall open.

Watch tasteful oddball sexy films together, rather than porn - French ones are good for this.

Get on interesting forums where you and she can read posts by ordinary lusty guys discussing their sex lives - she will see it's not just you being 'weird'.

good luck

Mrs T


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

Your situation sounds like my prior marriage. My wife didn't care as much about sex but almost never turned me down as she wanted to give me what I needed. But it did not help, our sex life was still very unfufilling to me. So I started cheating through the years, hookers, girlfriends, whatever. I told myself I deserved this, I did not want to leave my wife and needed this. I had some awesome girls who wanted me to leave my wife but I would not as it was all about sex for me. Well, in the end my wife did catch me a couple of times and she divorced me (left me for another guy by the way). It simply did not work, the cheating cost me my marriage and the only thing I can say is you have to keep trying to make it better with your wife or get out. 

BTW, I am now with a gal who wants sex twice a day and I cannot keep up with her. Frankly, the problem is the opposite, I actually try to avoid sex sometimes as I don't need it quite that much. So it might be rare that we find that person who has the exact same needs we have, I guess we just have to learn to deal with what we have.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

chuckf75 said:


> BTW, I am now with a gal who wants sex twice a day and I cannot keep up with her. Frankly, the problem is the opposite, I actually try to avoid sex sometimes as I don't need it quite that much. So it might be rare that we find that person who has the exact same needs we have, I guess we just have to learn to deal with what we have.


If you practise semen retention, you will have no problem keeping up, plus it will be more fun for both of you: Semen Retention


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Is it also possible that what you've done by breaking the trust is an actual sexual addiction problem? However you justify what you've done, you've harmed your wife. It isn't just about values. It is about trust. It is about choosing to show her respect and love. Love and respect DEMAND that you do not go outside of your marriage to have your DESIRES (these are NOT needs) met without her permission. You are married. You gave up your right to act on your individual values when you said "I do."

And the idea that if you already screwed up, why not screw up the whole way is a horribly immature and selfish balking of your responsibility toward your wife. 

You mentioned being gutted for your behavior. A person has to HAVE guts to be gutted so you're not in any danger.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks again for the continued insight. I agree with most what everyone is saying here but to be honest no matter how much we chat, we REALLY don't know the full extent of the details of each others situation, which can be challenging.

I agree 11 years is not a long time and people will always continue to learn more about each other but as time goes on there really is less and less to learn, to be realistic. I've got a really good gut instinct about people, even strangers I just met, it seems to be some inherited talent I have, it is very uncanny. 

I think one thing people may be missing is the sex thing is not just about quantity, the quantity is just fine, and the quality is good too. It really has to do more specifically with roleplaying skills. Roleplaying skills frankly take some acting skills, and frankly some people are good actors and some people aren't and you can try to teach better acting skills but some "just have it." The acting isn't necessarily playing some intricate role like they are another person (like a nurse, or dominatrix, or whatever), the acting can also be just about giving the illusion you are really into something your partner likes to do, instead of giving off the vibe you are "just doing it" to do it for your partner. Understand? My wife is not the creative type. She's a great gal and I love her, but just like I'm not the real empathetic type (more the 'suck it up' tough love type, but I can draw, paint, act, whatever) She can't draw, paint, act, but she's a better parent than me in my opinion, being much more caring and empathetic. Of course mothers are generally like that with their kids. She's a great gal. Great personality.

So while there is always room for improvement in the bedroom - I think maybe the reason I'm looking down this path is I'm very curious to see what the "potential" is. Is it just a grass is greener on the other side of the fence syndrome and I would realize that no matter who I'm with, I'll never be satisfied. Or can someone easily demonstrate to me, it can be done, the way I imagine it! But then what am I going to do, tell my wife, hey its easier than you think, so and so did it the way I like it. OOPS. lol

I think the best plan is to in general try to do and say things to improve our emotional connection in general. This will warm her up. But I can already see when I start suggesting this and that, that look in her eyes like 'oh here we go again with this stuff' and she won't refuse, she'll just go through the motions for me. If I give it another college try and it is another dead end, then I think it would be wise to suggest we see a marriage counselor or sex therapist. Probably a counselor is better as in actuality our sex life is not below average in my mind, we need to work on more how our relationship in general effects our sex life. Improve one and then the other improves along with it. 

I'm still human though and still curious and still feel like I've already crossed the line so maybe I also need to sort of forgive myself for past actions and not use it as an excuse to explore further. 

I know a lot of guys though that would tell me, hey, a romp with someone you have no relationship with may be good for you and show you how much you appreciate your wife! But us guys I think can be quick to make up excuses when it comes to sexual exploration.

My question to Chuck would be, did you look elsewhere purely because you weren't getting the amount or type of sex you wanted, or did you find yourself becoming distant/disconnected from your marriage as a whole and/or had contemptuous feelings towards your wife? IOW "you just weren't getting along period." That would be a different situation than mine. It's just about the sex with me. Otherwise I'm content and happy.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'd suggest that you go to a counselor on your own to determine why you'd risk everything you have with your wife over sex. It'd be no different if this were booze or heroin.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

dobo said:


> I'd suggest that you go to a counselor on your own to determine why you'd risk everything you have with your wife over sex. It'd be no different if this were booze or heroin.


Point well taken. But there are varying degrees of "risk" What one might assume is a big risk, another might think is a small risk. But I get where you are coming from.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

look conarc - the fact of the matter is you've asked for advice from people who have been in similar situations - we've given it - basically to a person it is - work on your own marriage or get permission or get a divorce. Now if your mind is already made up - like it seems - and you are just looking to get someone on here to say - "sure man sounds like a great and just plan - go for it" I don't really think your going to find it. You can keep trying, but I've never ever seen that response to anyone who posted on this forum about having an affair and wanting to justify it - there is no justification for it - a you have more 'justifications' than anyone else I've seen. You are plain and simple being selfish. If you can live with the risk of what it will do to you and others lives if found out - or the guilt (which will be more than going to look at naked girls at the strip club) then whatever. But your wife didn't ask for that and you are forcing her into a situation that will be painful for her that she doesn't deserve.

This is a Marriage forum - people on here are for marriages that follow the rules (which if you want to swing means getting permission - there are members on the forum that do that to, but its part of the rules of their marriages) not for patting those want to break the rules on the back.


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## conarc7220 (Nov 12, 2009)

I've always found it interesting that in a country that prides itself on free speech, how easily most people in the US get so bent out of shape when they read something that clashes with their values. A statement like "This is a Marriage forum - people on here are for marriages that follow the rules" is a demonstration of narrow mindedness and intolerance. I'm not trying to push my values on anyone here. Maybe you should do the same.

The fact that I even took the time to come here and look for advice from people who have been in similar situations probably happens with very few people who actually "cheat" on their spouses. And it's all talk so far, no action.

I don't want this to turn into some flame war. I used to moderate forums like this 25 years ago on an Apple IIe computer with two modems and two phone lines. I know how the dynamics go, especially with everyone's anonymity behind their keyboards. It was funny, there could be a big arguement all the time between certain people, then when they met face to face at some get together they ended up being pals. But I'm getting off on a tangent.

This last post in my opinion oversimplified the situation and is the typical righteous soap box BS "the majority's values are the norm we don't want to hear other viewpoints" Gag me with a spoon.

I've decided to first work on the situation with my wife, if progress isn't made, see a counselor together (my situation is not unusual, I'm mentally healthy and the things I want are reasonable.) If that doesn't improve then I'll ask for permission. At that point she will see that I (we) really tried but she just wasn't into it and at that point maybe it will be like this other couple I've been chatting with where the husband loves her enough, that he's fine with her having sexual relations with another person. He wants her to be happy.

Thanks again for the advice. I will abstain from further posts in order to avoid risking it turn into some shouting match.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

conarc7220 said:


> Point well taken. But there are varying degrees of "risk" What one might assume is a big risk, another might think is a small risk. But I get where you are coming from.


You come across as being very arrogant and unfeeling toward your wife. You don't respect her because you've gotten away with so much for so long. And you seem to think that you are just exhibiting a male characteristic for being detached. I'd suggest that there may be more to it than that : an underlying personality problem.

I strongly urge you to get into therapy before you absolutely devistate your innocent wife and have to live with the aftermath.

I'd also urge you to look inside and try to get in touch with some sort of spirituality and moral compass. It isn't about guilt. It is about learning to be good to those you claim to love (since love is demonstrated by action, not feeling). It is about accepting external boundaries, not because we enjoy them, but because they prevent harm to ourselves and our families. 

Some of the things that people go though when they've been cheated on include but are not limited to :

- flashbacks
- constant fear
- a complete loss of sense of safety and trust in themselves, not just the cheater
- physical symptoms like headaches, stomach problems
- suicidal thoughts
- suicidal behavior
- inability to sleep
- inability to eat

Basically, PTSD, all caused by someone who claimed to love them at one time or another -- and even more insulting when the person CONTINUES to claim that they love them.

And this goes on for YEARS.

Why don't you just send your wife to some village in Afghanistan and give her a gun? At least then she'd have some chance of protecting herself from the enemy and if she gets PTSD, it is a sad side-effect of war (or other traumatic events). With you, she doesn't even know she needs protection or that she's sleeping with the enemy.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

I have no problem with free speech (see it works both ways - you can post what you believe and I can post what I believe - cool how that's suppose to work right?) its not narrow minded opinion and its not a soap box stand - you came to a marriage forum - if you had gone to a cheaters forum you would of probably found back up. You chose a forum that you knew would be at odds with your questions. I'm just saying I don't think you'll find the "go ahead" attitude on here which seemed to be what you kept angling for. I'm very glad you are going to try the other options first. You never gave any inclination you were even listening to what the others were saying - you just kept throwing more justification out there for what you wanted to do - so I'm sorry that I got a little irritated at that.


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## coffee bean (Apr 3, 2009)

Conarc -

Are you not really interested in trying different tactics to wake up your wife's freaky side? 

Sometimes, what you give is what you get - do you do sexy roleplay with her? Have you found what really gets her breathing hard and done roleplay where you're in charge? 

If you did satisfy her hottest fantasy, even by accident, she'd probably then do anything for you.

You seem to have her prejudged and in a box labelled -'non-actor' - but if she let rip sexually, she'd get into acting all right and you'd have a good time. You don't understand that people have latent personalities. My last post was all about how you can help her to let rip, but that idea doesn't seem to grab you.

If you did wake up her sex goddess then she might well be up for a bit of swinging. Can you handle that or do you want her at home while you play out?


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## coffee bean (Apr 3, 2009)

If you go to counselling you will bore her to tears and she will feel that she is the one with the problem. Counselling is not sexy and she won't feel like being sexy at the end of it. You can't counsel someone into being sexually released. If the counselling doesn't go your way, which it won't, because nobody wants to be lectured into doing roleplay, you are just going to ask to go elsewhere, so it will have been a total waste of money.

Better to flirt, tease and seduce her. Make her laugh, make her scream, make her follow you with her tongue hanging out. You have to lead on this one, with energy. Otherwise you'll end up taking your needs to some other woman, who will find you needy.


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## gmailgirl (Aug 29, 2009)

I think the decision of having sexual affair outside marriage is very personal and based on an individual's mindset. Lot of people are capable of handling that very well and manage their married life too. People have done that in the past (if you read famous biographies) and still do it. I have met women (much older) who had many men in their lives and were successfully married too. They said if you can handle it go for it. Sounds like you want to take this step thoughtfully by avoiding any errors; you are not seeking approval or want to justify your step, but want to know if someone did it and how they managed it. You have to find your own way, as you will have to manage yourself, your wife and the other woman. 

By managing yourself -

I mean not getting involved with the other woman emotionally - but you can't plan on that or put a ban on feelings. Every woman is different and has unique sexuality and qualities- may be you will fall for her not only for she is great in bed but as a person too. Also typically when you are spending your time and energy with the other woman- it is a possibility that you may not feel that much interested in your own wife even if she is great in every way- being emotionally distant, not taking interest in her daily activities, missing passion to please her are common signs due to which people avoid having extra- marital. Personally, I have a much greater need than my husband- it's like 1:10 but I still avoid having relationships outside even when I am approached by many attractive men, just because I know I will get involved emotionally. 

By managing wife - First she should not be aware of your activities; that could aggravate her. Second she or kids should not feel neglected. She should get your full attention, sex and passion that she deserves being your wife. If you can manage that and not be caught like David Letterman then you are good. But be prepared for the consequences if you are caught. Have a plan B ready.

By managing other woman - Keep it clear with her from the start that you are looking for pure sex and passion and no emotional intimacy. Even if the liking for each other develops it would be purely friendship and families should not be affected. Explain each other not to be jealous or obsessive about each other, which could possibly happen when you plan on separating.

If you can take the burden of handling all this along with your job, being a husband and dad then you truly are genius  Being from a creative industry, I have seen this happening a lot and people are still married but the foundation of marriage is hollow. The relationship lacks depth and compassion in tough times. But I could be wrong as need is need and everyone is different.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

To me this isn't about some abstract set of rules. I just ask myself if it would be ok if my wife did that to me. Answer is hell no. By the way I don't mind she goes shopping or mountain biking with someone else. Maybe that is because fcuking someone and shopping with someone are so different to me. Maybe you are just an excellent shopper. 

No one is objecting to your first amendment rights. We simply think you are taking your marriage quite lightly. 

You want an open marriage - then have the courage to go ask for it. You will likely get served instead but hey - then you can have all the variety you want. 




conarc7220 said:


> I've always found it interesting that in a country that prides itself on free speech, how easily most people in the US get so bent out of shape when they read something that clashes with their values. A statement like "This is a Marriage forum - people on here are for marriages that follow the rules" is a demonstration of narrow mindedness and intolerance. I'm not trying to push my values on anyone here. Maybe you should do the same.
> 
> The fact that I even took the time to come here and look for advice from people who have been in similar situations probably happens with very few people who actually "cheat" on their spouses. And it's all talk so far, no action.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brutal but fair. 




dobo said:


> You come across as being very arrogant and unfeeling toward your wife. You don't respect her because you've gotten away with so much for so long. And you seem to think that you are just exhibiting a male characteristic for being detached. I'd suggest that there may be more to it than that : an underlying personality problem.
> 
> I strongly urge you to get into therapy before you absolutely devistate your innocent wife and have to live with the aftermath.
> 
> ...


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

What turns her on?


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