# Help with ending an EA turned PA long distance



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

Okay. So I’ve been lurking here for a few days and have gathered some insight. I wanted to share my story and where I was currently in hopes to seeing anything else that I don’t see and for encouragement. There have been a few times since DDay that I’ve felt very alone with a wide range of emotions but reading other people’s stories have helped me through.
Anyways, to my story. Throughout my marriage (married 7 years, 2 daughters) I have lied about finances. What bills were and were not paid and I took out a $1000 loan without notifying my wife. I’m sure there are other transgressions to that I can’t remember or are perceived different than I might have intended them to be. In short I haven’t been the ideal husband.
Back in February my wife and good friend started talking via text. My wife who was notorious for leaving her phone lying around suddenly couldn’t be separated from it. That should have been my first clue. Anyways because she was getting tired of my lies we decided to do a trial separation and cohabitate. I decided to go to my parents 2 hours away. Over that weekend I decided to see if my friend, we’ll call him X, was talking to WW via IM and they were. I thought the conversation then was too flirty and immediately called my WW’s dad to talk to her so I didn’t have to go home. She was furious. I then went into scramble mode and agreed to a separation that had me staying with my parents 2 hours away. I wanted to believe her that nothing was going on and that I had really overreacted. So much so that I saved a copy of the chat and gave it to my brother and told him not to give it back to me unless we were headed to court. Over the next two months I tried to work on improving myself for my marriage. I think depression set in during this because I realized I was losing everything and thought it was entirely my fault. During one of our one on one sessions where we talked about us, I agreed to send her out on vacation. The original plan had been for her to use his extra bedroom to save us hotel fees (I know stupid). But throughout this process I thought I had a chance. Sometimes she would be flirty with me etc and I thought I might be making some progress.
While she is out on vacation I decide that I couldn’t get over the facts not adding up. I decided to hack into her laptop and see what I found. I found some provocative poses that I had never seen before. I then was able to find that her iPhone backup all of her text messages. I restored those to my laptop and read through all of them. They were bad, real bad. This was a full blown EA that I had just helped turn into a PA. I let her sister and dad know since they suspected that something wasn’t right but was trying to have faith in her.

I found this a week before she was to return (she was out there for 10 days, I found this on day 5). Instead of confronting her while she out there I sat and stewed on it for the week until she returned. We started into at the airport and continued all the way home until late into the night. We picked up again the next morning. She never admitted to doing anything physical. In fact she rarely admits to anything now that I don’t have to pry out by reading one of the texts (I have them virtually memorized).
We sat down with her sister who confronted her but didn’t get much else revealed. Her sister did get us to commit to having an answer whether or not we would want to work on this within 48 hours. During the next 48 hours there was a range of emotions from her crying to flirting. At the end of the 48 hours I admitted to wanting to R and she decided that she wasn’t sure and was going to sit on the fence (not verbatim what she said). She agreed to go to counseling if I set it up. Over the next few days I watched as any flirting stopped and she became distant. No doubt now that it was because she knew for that moment anyways that she was secure for the time being.

Then I started doing research into this. First I thought about trying some of the alternatives to counseling that says it only takes one to fix the marriage (Mort Fertel’s system as an example). I then found this site and started reading through other people’s stories and felt a little more confident in putting a plan in place. 

Last night I told her I didn’t want to try and work this out anymore (8 days after the original confrontation) and that we could do dissolution with the sticking being the kids. I didn’t want anything less than shared parenting and 50/50 time. She called me a few names said I was controlling stormed away. Came back a few minutes and I guess tried to see if this was a bluff by wanting to talk about dissolution more. She picked a few minors fights in there in which I didn’t really get into it and just kept my cool. She stormed out of the house to go call X and I went to bed. 

Today I decided that I wanted to expose the A because that would give me the best chance of dealing with her in reality. I know some will say I should just go but I had dreams that I wasn’t ready to give up on yet. So I exposed to mutual friends of ours so they could talk to him or whatever and I exposed to his HR department (mostly because he spent a lot of time calling and texting my wife during work hours). I have a few of our mutual friends that will begin reaching out to her tonight too. My question is there anything that I should have done differently and anything that I can be doing differently now? Secretly, my goal would be to work on a R but as I’ve seen posted here a few times you have to be willing to lose it to save it. And I also realize that the A has to end before I can effectively attack any of the issues that we might try and work out.

Any help would/encouragement would be much appreciated.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Step one is to kill the affair. Exuding will help that.

Her initially wanting to R then turning cold is her contacting him. It feeds her brain more affair high chemicals and shuts you out.

Stop their communication if possible. Drop a key logger onto your PC and if you re paying for her iPhone consider having his number blocked in it.

You need to go harsh and nuclear on this one. Keep in mind she spent 10 days shagging him on your dime and is still living off those emotions and the bonding with him that it provided.

Is he married or with a gf? Out the affair to them too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

No he doesn't have a gf or wife. 

I did expose to mutual friends of ours. It appears through the text messages that his parents are aware of this though so bringing them in won't work. 

I feel like that if I could have gotten ahead of this before she went out there I could have killed this off easier...


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Never assume his parents or others know, they may however if life gets uncomfortable for him it affects them , no one wants friends and neighbours knowing their son is a cheat. 

read the newbie thread thread there is info on exposure therein , key here is to make the affair problematic for them to maintain. You've been doing a great job so far , time to up the anti.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Figure out how they are communicating and get yourself back home. Your moving out has only enabled her freedom to cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

Sorry you are here, but you are doing well by reading up and asking for advice. 

Go back home. She stepped out of the M, she needs to leave. 

Work on getting back to an even keel - this is very important for your own decision-making and most of all, for your girls. 

Start talking to a trusted guy friend who can calmly listen, and give you objective advice on your decisions.

Snoop if you can, but at this point, it is pointless. She isn't even claiming to not be in an A. You know she is in an EA, possibly PA. Move on.

This part is important - irrespective of what she is up to, spend several hours a day visualizing, planning and researching a divorce. This is to put a plan in place in case things don't work out. This doesn't mean you HAVE to use it, but it will change your attitude to one of strength. Let me tell you, nothing scared my WW more than the news that I had called two different lawyers and talked through plans for a D. Nothing! When you show strength and a will to move on, she will realize she can't have it both ways. 

While you do all this, 180 hard until she has decided to give up the A.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Marriage problems are 50/50 between the two of you. The affair is 100% on her. With two daughters at home and a marriage in trouble she chose to spend 10 days screwing her lover. Why do you want to stay married to her?

The first step is to stop the affair. You have zero chance of any reconciliation as long as she is in contact with him. Sounds as though she was mentally checked out a long time ago and it is not going to be easy for her to put her fantasy life with him aside especially since now she considers him to be the love of her life.

Expose to everyone you can think of.

Follow through with the divorce. File the papers. List infidelity as the reason. Most states infidelity does not affect property settlements and child custody but you can still list it in the filing. The divorce can be stopped at anytime before the judge signs the final decree if she wakes up. If not you are ahead of the game. 

Let her know that you are not trying to control her. She is in control of her own actions. But you have the right to determine what is acceptable to you and what is not. DO NOT ACCEPT ANY BLAME FOR HER AFFAIR.

You are on the right track. You know you have to be willing to let her go if you want to save the marriage. Do not be too quick to accept her back. The cheater script is to calm the spouse with lies and false hope then take the affair deeper underground with hidden email accounts (he could open an account using a girls name to throw you off), secret affair phones, false facebook pages.

Good luck.

Edit: Do not fall for the separation or time alone to think crap. That is just her continuing the affair with you out of the way. Go back to your house and be with your children. If she wants to leave that's up to her.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Marriage problems are 50/50 between the two of you. The affair is 100% on her. With two daughters at home and a marriage in trouble she chose to spend 10 days screwing her lover. Why do you want to stay married to her?


:iagree:


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

OM parents my think you guys are already split up, I'd contact OM parents and tell them the both of you are going to R and ask them for there support in the marriage.
Just to cover that base... if you know what I mean.

I think you covered all the bases, gathering the proof and confronting all seems in check, Just start focusing on showing her the consequences by getting her served with divorce papers, you can always withdraw before its finalized. This is a real important step in getting her to turn a corner. So file ASAP. and name the OM in the divorce papers.

Hang in there man, and keep making this affair as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

And let the OM patents know about the kids too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Figure out how they are communicating and get yourself back home. Your moving out has only enabled her freedom to cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, sorry. That was part of the story that I left out (so much has happened). I did move back in during her vacation to watch the girls. After I discovered this I chose to not move back out. I'm currently sleeping in my bed and she is sleeping on the couch.


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

thrway214 said:


> Sorry you are here, but you are doing well by reading up and asking for advice.
> 
> Go back home. She stepped out of the M, she needs to leave.
> 
> ...


Getting even keel has by far been the hardest part as I'm sure you're aware. And until recently I haven't been taking as good care of myself. When this first started (3/1) I was 217 I'm now down to 191. 

Off topic for a second the weight loss was actually the final straw. I looked in the mirror at our house while she was away and I could see all the stress and what it was doing to me. I didn't actually see me if that makes sense? That's when I became bound and determined to start looking around to see what was going on. 

Back on topic do you think I need to serve divorce papers as oppose to dissolution papers?


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

keko said:


> :iagree:


Yeah, I know. I haven't let go of certain dreams yet. But I'm only 2 weeks out from DDay so it's hard to know if I'll actually stay the course for R instead of just completing D.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

gnarlmen said:


> Yeah, I know. I haven't let go of certain dreams yet. But I'm only 2 weeks out from DDay so it's hard to know if I'll actually stay the course for R instead of just completing D.


You know she screwed the OM at her vacation, but do you have any solid evidence of it? Which your WW can't just refuse? It seems she is still in deep fog and needs a hard "slap in the face".


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

keko said:


> You know she screwed the OM at her vacation, but do you have any solid evidence of it? Which your WW can't just refuse? It seems she is still in deep fog and needs a hard "slap in the face".


Unfortunately, no. But the texts left no doubt. Although I still can't get her to admit to anything. A few of our mutual friends have approached the OM and he won't fess up to anything either. -_-

I'm searching for the "hard slap". That's what it is going to require.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*Throughout my marriage (married 7 years, 2 daughters) I have lied about finances. What bills were and were not paid and I took out a $1000 loan without notifying my wife. I’m sure there are other transgressions to that I can’t remember or are perceived different than I might have intended them to be. In short I haven’t been the ideal husband.*

Your lies about finances is also a kind of betrayal. Repeated lies and secrets about important issues feel like a betrayal. Your wife feels betrayed. Your wife likely will not want to come back to you if she thinks this situation will continue.

Have a face-to-face meeting with your wife to discuss your marriage. Tell her this:

_I am sorry I lied to you about so many things regarding our finances. I am sorry for the other serious faults I have. I will never lie to you again about our finances. I will do my best to improve myself.

I love you. I have always loved you. I want to work on our marriage. I want our marriage to be better. I want to be a better husband. I want to make you happy. I will work at being a better husband. BUT I CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU AND I WILL FILE FOR DIVORCE IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE CONDITIONS. I DO NOT INTEND TO LIVE THE REMAINDER OF MY LIFE IN AN UNHAPPY MARRIAGE WHERE MY WIFE IS CHEATING ON ME. 

Tell me the entire truth regarding the details of the affair.

You will hand-write a letter to your cheating partner telling him that going forward the two of you will have no contact. Your letter will include your expressing how sorry you are for hurting your husband and putting the happiness of your children at risk. Your letter will include that if he ever tries to contact you again, in any way, shape or form, you will not respond to him. Your letter will include that if he tries to contact you again in any way, shape or form, you will file harassment charges against him. Your letter will NOT include any expression of concern or warmth toward your cheating partner. You will show the letter to me and I will send it to your cheating partner.

You will immediately cease any and all contact with your cheating partner. You will never communicate with your cheating partner again for the rest of your life. There will be no last message to your cheating partner for closure. You must inform me immediately of any attempt by your cheating partner to contact you or any attempt by you to contact him. You will not go to any web site where he is located. You will not view his Facebook profile. Ever.

You will tell me of any means you used to communicate with your cheating partner and give me passwords to those accounts or devices. You will block him on all of those devices and accounts. At my option, you will delete those accounts or surrender those devices until I feel comfortable. There will be no secrecy going forward. You will not delete any email messages, phone messages, or internet history from any device.

I love you. I have always loved you. I want to work on our marriage. I want our marriage to be better. I want to be a better husband. I want to make you happy. I will work at being a better husband. BUT I CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU AND I WILL FILE FOR DIVORCE IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE CONDITIONS. I DO NOT INTEND TO LIVE THE REMAINDER OF MY LIFE IN AN UNHAPPY MARRIAGE WHERE MY WIFE IS CHEATING ON ME._

If she does not accept your conditions, file for divorce as soon as possible. You can always stop the process later on if she agrees to your conditions.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*I'm searching for the "hard slap". That's what it is going to require.*

I disagree with this. You KNOW she cheated. She KNOWS she cheated. It does not matter if she admits to it. You can file for divorce anyway. Ask the lawyer if her cheating makes any difference in the divorce. If it does not, what does the proof matter? Why stay married to her if she is having an affair, won't end it, and you KNOW it?

She's the one cheating. She knows it already. You don't have to prove it to her.


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> *I'm searching for the "hard slap". That's what it is going to require.*
> 
> I disagree with this. You KNOW she cheated. She KNOWS she cheated. It does not matter if she admits to it. You can file for divorce anyway. Ask the lawyer if her cheating makes any difference in the divorce. If it does not, what does the proof matter? Why stay married to her if she is having an affair, won't end it, and you KNOW it?
> 
> She's the one cheating. She knows it already. You don't have to prove it to her.


I didn't mean I needed the evidence for a hard slap to prove it. What I wanted a hard slap for was to get her out of the deep fog. 

I am taking the steps to end this. I know there are no guarantees but I am prepared to completely walk away.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you need to file here. She's do far gone into cheater mode. Heck she likely views sleeping on the couch as being faithful to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

The D papers are the hard slap she needs. if she won't come out of the fog then, pack her bags. but don't let her take your kids. and never but never leave your house.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

gnarlmen said:


> I am taking the steps to end this. I know there are no guarantees but I am prepared to completely walk away.


This is the best attitude. One's show of strength and independence melts cheater's entitlement away.


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

I've heard mentioned a few times about the "cheater script". Is there a post or something that explains this? Are there typical steps that they take after exposure that I should be watching for?


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

gnarlmen said:


> I've heard mentioned a few times about the "cheater script". Is there a post or something that explains this? Are there typical steps that they take after exposure that I should be watching for?


Bump


----------



## gnarlmen (May 3, 2012)

Also, is it generally true that if they haven't apologized or are willing to fill in the gaps you still haven't gotten the truth? Is there an effective method for dealing with trickle truth?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Some methods are having then tell the affair history in reverse. Another is a polygraph.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

gnarlmen said:


> .
> , I agreed to send her out on vacation. The original plan had been for her to use his extra bedroom to save us hotel fees (I know stupid). But throughout this process I thought I had a chance. Sometimes she would be flirty with me etc and I thought I might be making some progress.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: (Sorry for the laugh, but i couldnt control it)


Are you a miser or tooo generous?


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*I've heard mentioned a few times about the "cheater script". Is there a post or something that explains this? Are there typical steps that they take after exposure that I should be watching for?*

There are many variations to the cheater script. It is like watching a baseball game. The pitcher will pitch, the batter will bat, there are many things that can happen, all are pretty predictable. You know in certain situations, certain things are likely to happen.

After exposure, the cheater will become very angry with you and say things like, "I can't believe you would hurt an innocent person like (other man's wife) and make her feel this bad pain, she (omw) did nothing to deserve this, I knew you were inconsiderate but I didn't think you would stoop this low."

The cheater usually will storm out of the house and call or go to see the other man.

If the other man throws the cheater under the bus, the cheater might come out of the fog.

*Also, is it generally true that if they haven't apologized or are willing to fill in the gaps you still haven't gotten the truth? Is there an effective method for dealing with trickle truth? *

Yes. The truth will make sense, there will be no gaps. If the story does not make sense, it probably is not true. If there are gaps, it probably is not true. Cheaters are excellent at telling small lies to continue the affair when you are unaware of the affair, but once you find out, almost no cheaters can tell a good lie that makes sense to explain all of the details of the affair unless it is mostly the truth.

If they haven't apologized, they aren't sorry. It makes no sense to forgive someone who is not sorry.

You cannot make another person tell you the truth. You can't control the other person. You can only control yourself. You can tell the other person, either you give me the truth or I will file for divorce. Then you do it. If they don't tell you the truth then, it means they would rather be divorced from you than tell you the truth. If they want to save the marriage, they will tell the truth. If they don't tell the truth then, they don't care about saving the marriage.


----------

