# Parental Influence and Misogyny



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I just had a most interesting discussion with my 21 year old son and was thinking about a mother's influence on her son's attitude towards women in general.

He's really smart...electrical engineering major with minors in computer science and business administration (still in school). Two separate scholarships that pay him back each semester, so they've paid him to go. He's a good investment and will pay a lot of taxes. He also likes to game and has friends who game as well.

We've always been tight and have a lot in common. I know that at different points he's read various red pill and misogynistic reddit forums as well as had these discussions with his buddies. Because we're tight he's come to me to discuss and I've been able to stomp a lot of that **** out, to the point where he's told me that he stepped in when one of his buddies was harassing his (buddy's) ex gf because he saw it wasn't right. Told the guy to leave her the **** alone.

We got to talking about how a lot of men who have deep issues with women have poor relationships with their mothers (not always of course). He mentioned that one of his friends that he'd noticed had a general dislike of women also made references to his mother being a *****. My own nephew absolutely HATES my sister, his mother, and she deserves it. She lost her kids because she both abused them and allowed men to abuse them because men were always 1st on her mind.

Eventually he went to live with my mom who wasn't really in a position to deal with him. She got sick and passed and he went to my other sister, who has no kids but took him and his sister in. She dropped the hammer on him, with advice from me, but also did a lot for him.

Today he's unrecognizable......a much happier 17 year old and we no longer worry about him abusing women. He now has a couple of aunts in his life that are good to him. It's a long story but his mother had isolated them from the rest of us.

As we were discussing things my son told me that he could see himself being one of these misogynists if he hadn't had a tight relationship with me.

How much influence does a poor relationship between a guy and his mother have on his attitudes towards women? I'd always heard that but to hear my son say it was still a bit of a surprise. I'm curious what the men think, but as always my TAM sisters are welcome to chime in.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Wonderfully spicy topic.

I'm taking some time to consider my experiences with my mother which were really less than stellar growing up. I really could have used a good father in my life on top of it but that might not enter into this discussion.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know, I didn't have a healthy relationship with my mother until reconciliation in early adulthood and I don't have misogynistic views about women.

I've only ever had positive relations with the opposite sex though 🤷‍♂️ I seem to have avoided the crazies thus far to turn me into a woman-hater.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One certainly doesn't have to turn into a misogynist because their mother wasn't great.....I was interested in the correlation. We all know that women who are sexually abused can have negative views toward men....I was abused by my mother's father while she did nothing but I don't hold any man beyond him accountable for that.

But I was also close to my father, and I'm not sure I'd feel this way if I hadn't had him. A father's influence is important and worthy of its own discussion.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Hmm… I’d say I pretty much never listened to my mother ever. So I’d say how I treat women is mostly a function of my father.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> One certainly doesn't have to turn into a misogynist because their mother wasn't great.....I was interested in the correlation. We all know that women who are sexually abused can have negative views toward men....I was abused by my mother's father while she did nothing but I don't hold any man beyond him accountable for that.
> 
> But I was also close to my father, and I'm not sure I'd feel this way if I hadn't had him. A father's influence is important and worthy of its own discussion.


Ah in that case yes. I do believe it is important.

I try to set a standard as a father that my daughter will hold her future boyfriends up to. 
However, I am human and haven't been the best husband or boyfriend many times in my relationships, I just hope she learns from my bad examples as well as my good.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Bad relationships with parents or non-existent parents is always a red flag.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ah in that case yes. I do believe it is important.
> 
> I try to set a standard as a father that my daughter will hold her future boyfriends up to.
> However, I am human and haven't been the best husband or boyfriend many times in my relationships, I just hope she learns from my bad examples as well as my good.


FWIW my father was a terrible husband and partner .. divorced from my mom and managed to wreck every dating relationship he had.

And he was certainly not a perfect father. But he was there when I needed him and the lines of communication were always open with him. He was always in my corner and was honest with me, and that was enough.

He hated my ex hb and he was right about him... I should've listened 

You don't have to be perfect, you just have to be there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> FWIW my father was a terrible husband and partner .. divorced from my mom and managed to wreck every dating relationship he had.
> 
> And he was certainly not a perfect father. But he was there when I needed him and the lines of communication were always open with him. He was always in my corner and was honest with me, and that was enough.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I do hope it is enough.

Would be a lot less heads to tear off when she inevitably introduces me to potential future son in laws.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

My late husband did not have a poor relation with his mother, however, his relationships before be always left him sour on women. I think there was a lot more to it and women were the east outlet for his lack of self esteem and failures. 

I often worried how my son would turn out under his father, though he never verbally abused me in front of our son until this last six months or so, he wasn’t always responsible as a dad in general. I can look back now and see it was depression he was hiding extremely well. But any man who apologize to a woman, took his share of the blame in an argument, ect, in his mind was weak.

Anyhow, here I am now a single mom with a four, almost five year old who often opens my car door first, tends to hold a door for everyone, is often complimented on his manners.. so on and so forth. What does this mean? Could be nothing in the long run, but now I truly bear the responsibility to raise him and teach him not to be a doormat but also respect women. It’s a big load.

I can’t teach him to be a man, but I can lead him to other men around us who he can look up to that have wonderful relationships and marriages. They aren’t perfect but teaching how to work through those things will be a big part of him growing up.

Maybe I’m getting a little far off. It’s just something I literally realized big time this morning in church. I was already the leader of my house before my husband passed, he left me no choice but to be. And now, we’ll it’s literally my only option.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> My late husband did not have a poor relation with his mother, however, his relationships before be always left him sour on women. I think there was a lot more to it and women were the east outlet for his lack of self esteem and failures.
> 
> I often worried how my son would turn out under his father, though he never verbally abused me in front of our son until this last six months or so, he wasn’t always responsible as a dad in general. I can look back now and see it was depression he was hiding extremely well. But any man who apologize to a woman, took his share of the blame in an argument, ect, in his mind was weak.
> 
> ...


I kind of had the same thing. My kids do see their father but when they were little and I'd left him he was a nasty drunk who didn't have much interest in actually raising his kids, so I was basically a single parent. Even now they're much closer to me.

I did remarry, but he never bonded with them and they always got on his nerves. I shouldn't have let that one go on as long as I did....13 years in their lives and that never even speak of him. It's like he never existed.

So their primary influence has been me. Of course they took marrial arts and played sports where they had men in their lives, but the main factor is me. They trust me.

My advice is to talk honestly to your son and make sure he knows that nothing is off limits. When he asks about his father....and he will....tell him honestly that his father had his own demons. He was what he was and that included good points, bur he loved him. And don't be afraid to share honestly how to deal with women....i did.

Be strong and your son will be fine.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't think there is a general correlation between the behavior and upbringing from mother's and misogynistic men.

Not to say mother's don't impact a large portion of the development of men.

My mom was pretty awful as a parent for most of my childhood. I even had about a year (between 16 & 17) where I really thought very lowly about women in general but my mom wasn't solely responsible for that view as she had a lot of help from women I interacted with as well.

That was only a phase and I can't honestly say I even entertained misogynistic ideas at that time.

I had a friend though, who's father was very, shall we say, old school in a bad way. He had both his parents and his mother was a lovely woman and his father was just an a hole.

My friend was very misogynistic among other attractive traits 😋 and I'm convinced his father was far more an influence in that direction.

I can't objectively label myself misogynistic (I did try).

I have always been somewhat chivalrous even as a toddler and I can't point to an influence that is responsible for it though it was cultivated by lessons, if not examples, from my mother and grandmother and I witnessed what a real man was by watching my grandfather and honestly taking what I liked from male role models in fiction and even celebrities that seemed to display good masculine traits.

I use to watch Bill Cosby do a kids show called Picture Pages and, as sad as it was, I absorbed the love of an adult man through the screen.

He displayed a kind of gentle and caring behavior for children that I wanted to emulate.

It really destroyed me when it was revealed he was a predator even though I was nearing middle age. He was part of my foundation.

Anecdotally, I would have to say I've seen men be more of an influence when it comes to sons growing to exhibit misogyny, that and a man's own initial nature to begin with.

I've never been able to allow girls or women to be harmed, even risking and enduring physical harm to prevent it.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I've never been able to allow girls or women to be harmed, even risking and enduring physical harm to prevent it.


I think this is a big thing. In general I hate a man raising their voice to a woman. I have never done it and I am very sensitive to it and immediately will file someone in the “needs a beat down” bucket.

I am more sensitive to it than my wife and her female friends. We went out to eat and were talking about a show where a man raised his voice at a woman. I was like “**** that guy he needs an ass kicking” and they were like what? I explained it more and they’re like “I guess you’re right but I never noticed”.

One of the reasons my late MIL liked me is I would jump in and fight people if they were messing with her daughter.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Can't really comment, as I hatched from an egg.

I do not dislike anyone (of either gender) that does not deserve it.

Ultimately, I see woman as desirable beings who keep me on my toes.



_Are Dee-_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Anecdotally, I would have to say I've seen men be more of an influence when it comes to sons growing to exhibit misogyny, that and a man's own initial nature to begin with.




This is why I believe in examples as it is the father's job to show the children the expectations required of them as sons or the expectations for a man as daughters.

So maybe daddy's influence > mummy's influence @lifeistooshort 😝


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Anecdotally, I would have to say I've seen men be more of an influence when it comes to sons growing to exhibit misogyny, that and a man's own initial nature to begin with.


I agree with this. Men learn from their fathers how to treat women, and from their mothers what women will tolerate. And vice versa. I think it's an equal burden that mothers and fathers BOTH share.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I think it's going to help anyone gain perspective if they have a good role model to use as reference. If a man only meets a bunch of crappy women in his life, his opinion of women can likely reflect that. I've known some guys that have really had no decent women in their lives from day 1 and they do grow to feel some kinda way about ladies. I get it. 

One of the problems with Red Pill is that there is just enough truth to some of that stuff to lure some guys in. While some of it is true IMO, that doesn't mean those truths apply to all ladies equally and a lot of Red Pillers haven't figured that part out yet.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> I think it's going to help anyone gain perspective if they have a good role model to use as reference. If a man only meets a bunch of crappy women in his life, his opinion of women can likely reflect that. I've known some guys that have really had no decent women in their lives from day 1 and they do grow to feel some kinda way about ladies. I get it.
> 
> One of the problems with Red Pill is that there is just enough truth to some of that stuff to lure some guys in. While some of it is true IMO, that doesn't mean those truths apply to all ladies equally and a lot of Red Pillers haven't figured that part out yet.


That's the thing isn't it? I keep meeting the very best of them for some reason, but I've always kept some bloody standards so I only notice the cream of the crop and disregarded the rubbish. So of course my opinion of women is of the very best. Maybe that's all they need, some bloody standards, judging by the traffic we get on this forum over the years too 

What better way to help your children set standards but by being examples?


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

Had and continue to have great relationships with my folks...

I am by every definition a modern-day misogynist. I lay down the law if you are male or female. Doesn't matter. We are all "equals" in this modern world, right? 

My mother was a strong woman. Took no crap from anyone. Worked three jobs for 2 years straight when my father was recovering from back surgery to make ends meet. 

The only person she has ever listened to was my father... and that was in pure biblical form. 

Looking back, her perspective has enabled me to realize that women can provide, take care of a home, be a mom, and a wife (if they need to be)... all at the same time and not miss a beat. 
If anything she is the antithesis of the modern 'woke' era. Better put- she did all that before it was cool.

If anything negative came from it... it was this... I expect A LOT from my spouse. My wife has LARGE shoes to fill when taking on the role of a mom and wife. But I am truly happy that my mother showed me what to expect from an A+ woman.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Had and continue to have great relationships with my folks...
> 
> I am by every definition a modern-day misogynist. I lay down the law if you are male or female. Doesn't matter. We are all "equals" in this modern world, right?
> 
> ...


My sons have told me the same thing.....that a future spouse has big shoes to fill thanks to me. I think I'm a pretty strong woman. ..I've provided well for them and am an alpha type woman.

I plan to try hard to welcome a DIL and celebrate who she is, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll have a little influence.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So maybe the answer is that it's variable. Both parents have the potential to influence in different ways and which parent the kid is closer to can factor in.

For my kids that parent is me, because we're close and I'm a large presence in their lives. My father once said my kids had a powerful mother 

My kids father was definitely misogynist I'm their early years, but I also divorced him and since he had no interest in parenting his influence was limited.

It looks like he's calmed down over the years...he has a long time live in gf who doesn't strike me aa the type that will put up with it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> So maybe the answer is that it's variable. Both parents have the potential to influence in different ways and which parent the kid is closer to can factor in.
> 
> For my kids that parent is me, because we're close and I'm a large presence in their lives. My father once said my kids had a powerful mother
> 
> ...


I'm convinced you have been a good influence on your boys.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Along with mothers, let's not discount the effect sisters have on men. I believe that men who have sisters have an easier time navigating relationships with women as adults - the men don't view women as foreign creatures as much.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Along with mothers, let's not discount the effect sisters have on men.


I have a younger sister, when we were little kids we battled each other, yet we grew up and she is really cool.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I just had a most interesting discussion with my 21 year old son and was thinking about a mother's influence on her son's attitude towards women in general.
> 
> He's really smart...electrical engineering major with minors in computer science and business administration (still in school). Two separate scholarships that pay him back each semester, so they've paid him to go. He's a good investment and will pay a lot of taxes. He also likes to game and has friends who game as well.
> 
> ...


I'm curious enough to comment on this thread simply because I have a great deal of respect for you, @lifeistooshort.

Before I comment, I would like to know what you would consider "misogyny". Not going to lie, I can't stand this word and the way it is used today and the typical group of people that use it. I'm not saying you are one of those people because I don't believe you are (from reading many of your previous posts). I understand "red pill" could broadly cover the men that are misogynists, but I would prefer more specifics so I can understand where you are coming from. For example, Do strong, stoic, confident, masculine men constitute misogynists? What about men that prefer a more traditional male role who treat women with respect as their equal? Are they misogynists? 

Are misogynists the only ones we have to worry about when it comes to raising children? Do we need to worry about misandrists as well? Would you consider your sister a misandrist or something else? 

I understand what you mean by being a strong alpha woman. My wife is very similar. We do not see eye to eye on a variety of subjects when it comes to teaching our values to our children (we have a son and daughter). I am in full agreement that I want to raise our son into being a good man one day, but I refuse to teach him popular modern culture that says men are inherently bad for being men (this is how I see the word misogyny being used in discussions today). At the same token, I will teach my daughter the same way I will teach my son. She is a person. An equal to boys and boys are equals to girls - but I won't let modern culture affect her either which is to teach girls that they are the best thing ever for simply being born. Respect and adoration is earned, not given. Modern culture seems to have lost all common sense. 

Also, your thread did ask the question about men and their relationship with their mothers. I do not have a good relationship with my mother. I haven't since I was a kid - but I don't think it is incumbent upon mothers to raise good men. I think that is the father's main role to mold boys into good, well adjusted men. My father did just that for me and my brothers. I think mothers are also vital to raising boys into men, but I think the masculine values come from good fathers. My mother is a narc and only cares about me as it pertains to how good I can make her look (in a nutshell). This obviously degraded our relationship over many years to the point that I just don't care to speak with her. Ever. When looking for a wife, I wanted to find a woman that was nothing like my mother - but my relationship with my mother didn't affect me in any way how I view women. I knew my mother is just one woman and not a representative of the female population as a whole.


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## SnakePlissken (10 mo ago)

I do not have a good relationship with my mothers or sisters and I don't think I'd be considered a misogynist. The way they speak of and to men taught me what to not seek in a woman (and to keep a healthy distance from them.) Sometimes the best lessons in life are learned by seeing how not to behave.

I think there is also the chance that someone in a similar situation and upbringing to mine would absolutely be a misogynist. Some traits we are born with and others are a function of environment. It certainly helped me having a male role model of how to treat others with respect man or woman.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I'm curious enough to comment on this thread simply because I have a great deal of respect for you, @lifeistooshort.
> 
> Before I comment, I would like to know what you would consider "misogyny". Not going to lie, I can't stand this word and the way it is used today and the typical group of people that use it. I'm not saying you are one of those people because I don't believe you are (from reading many of your previous posts). I understand "red pill" could broadly cover the men that are misogynists, but I would prefer more specifics so I can understand where you are coming from. For example, Do strong, stoic, confident, masculine men constitute misogynists? What about men that prefer a more traditional male role who treat women with respect as their equal? Are they misogynists?
> 
> ...


I think of a misogynist as one who doesn't think very highly of women and/or one who thinks a woman's value lies in how she can be of service to him as opposed to being another human being.

I absolutely do not equate misogyny with men who are masculine and stoic. In fact, I rather like such men because I feel like they can be excellent partners. Preferring specific gender roles isn't necessarily misogynist unless it's rooted in a dislike or disrespect of women.....sometimes it is and sometimes it's not.

I'd say my bf is pretty masculine and I find it quite attractive.

My sister is absolutely not a misandrist....she doesn't look down on men. She's a lazy drug addict who needs one around but can't attract a high quality one so she has to settle foe losers like her. Water finds its own level.

I would imagine that a misandrist raising sons could lead to misogyny because of the toxic dynamic is could create, but I can also see that many men are raised by toxic mothers and turn out fine. I was simply exploring the potential correlation because of the conversation with my son.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I'm curious enough to comment on this thread simply because I have a great deal of respect for you, @lifeistooshort.
> 
> Before I comment, I would like to know what you would consider "misogyny". Not going to lie, I can't stand this word and the way it is used today and the typical group of people that use it. I'm not saying you are one of those people because I don't believe you are (from reading many of your previous posts). I understand "red pill" could broadly cover the men that are misogynists, but I would prefer more specifics so I can understand where you are coming from. For example, Do strong, stoic, confident, masculine men constitute misogynists? What about men that prefer a more traditional male role who treat women with respect as their equal? Are they misogynists?
> 
> ...


I'd also add that even though I'm an alpha female I think if you asked my bf what I'm like to deal with he'd say I'm quite gentle and nurturing. I'm certainly independent and opinionated and have no issue making my opinion known, but I certainly don't steamroll him. My people skills are quite good.

Even after my CSA I still love men....particularly the strong, masculine ones I feel like I can trust 🙂

Maybe thanks to my close relationship with my father?


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> My sons have told me the same thing.....that a future spouse has big shoes to fill thanks to me. I think I'm a pretty strong woman. ..I've provided well for them and am an alpha type woman.
> 
> I plan to try hard to welcome a DIL and celebrate who she is, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll have a little influence.


Congratulations... if you heard this from your boys... you passed the mom-test with flying colors. 
And that is going to pay huge dividends moving through their young adult years. They may make some mistakes with some relationships (everyone does) BUT your aura is ingrained in their subconscious and they will make good decisions regarding a life partner.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think of a misogynist as one who doesn't think very highly of women and/or one who thinks a woman's value lies in how she can be of service to him as opposed to being another human being.
> 
> I absolutely do not equate misogyny with men who are masculine and stoic. In fact, I rather like such men because I feel like they can be excellent partners. Preferring specific gender roles isn't necessarily misogynist unless it's rooted in a dislike or disrespect of women.....sometimes it is and sometimes it's not.


Very refreshing perspective. 

Personally, I don't really care what society calls me. I know up from down, left from right, and have a moral compass. 

With the way the world is currently turning... I just _assume_ every perspective I have and share will be taken as- misogynist. And that's fine. I will gladly lap up any label you want to throw at me and I will give it back to you in spades with how I treat you if that's the way you perceive me without knowing me. 

BUT... to your point or post.

Parental relationships with their offspring do have to play a large part in how male/ female roles and respect are generated and shaped. How much? Who knows.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm curious as to how others would define misogyny today. Does it still mean hatred, or is it a catchall for marginalization, sexism, etc.? The society we're born into plays it's part into shaping or redefining it, imo.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I just had a most interesting discussion with my 21 year old son and was thinking about a mother's influence on her son's attitude towards women in general.
> 
> He's really smart...electrical engineering major with minors in computer science and business administration (still in school). Two separate scholarships that pay him back each semester, so they've paid him to go. He's a good investment and will pay a lot of taxes. He also likes to game and has friends who game as well.
> 
> ...


I would say for me the healthy respect I have for women is a mix of my fathers example and having 2 sisters.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TBT said:


> I'm curious as to how others would define misogyny today. Does it still mean hatred, or is it a catchall for marginalization, sexism, etc.? The society we're born into plays it's part into shaping or redefining it, imo.


I actually never heard the term before a couple years ago or at least started paying attention to it.

But, looking it up, it's supposed to be a dislike of, contempt for or an ingrained prejudice against women. I think they're too cute to feel that way myself.🙂


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I actually never heard the term before a couple years ago or at least started paying attention to it.
> 
> But, looking it up, it's supposed to be a dislike of, contempt for or an ingrained prejudice against women. I think they're too cute to feel that way myself.🙂


Exactly. I didn’t start hearing it until a few years ago.
The way it is used today certainly encompasses more than what what is defined by the dictionary.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I feel you guys. I feel this way about the term "feminazi".....I hadn't heard of it when I was younger and even today I hear about these supposed man haters but have never actually met one.

I'm sure they exist somewhere, I just have no idea where that is.

I was once accused of hating men on this site. My response was that I'd let my boys know because they'd be most surprised to hear this. The guy then backed down.

I'm with @ConanHub......how can I hate men when they're so cute?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I feel this way about the term "feminazi"


I hear that one ALL THE TIME. It's a pejorative that means "I don't think you should be allowed to have that opinion." 

I've never met an actual man-hater, but I'm told they're all over social media. I'm not on social media so I can't be sure...

Real men are HOT.


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