# Considering Separation



## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

So I’m brand new here. Thank you in advance to those who will respond to my situation. For the past year or so, I have not felt very close to my wife. We have been married for 15 years and have 4 kids. She has become very irritable and controlling of me to the point to where I am thinking about what it would be like to not be with her anymore and with someone else. I can’t walk by her in the house or even sit down for a few minutes without her yelling for me to do this or do that. Don’t get me wrong – I love helping out around the house and with the kids, but she is constantly on my back. If I stand up to her and tell her no, that sets her off even more. She usually gives me the “of course, you never do what I ask” speech. Yesterday, I made it a point just to count in my head how many times she asked me to do something and I came up with 8 different tasks. 
She is also becoming very needy. If I don’t hug her or kiss her right away when I see her she thinks something’s wrong and then pouts about it for hours. If we don’t have sex several times a week she just makes the assumption I don’t want to or that I don’t find her attractive. 

I do everything I can to make her happy and treat her well. I took her on a trip to New York City last month, bought her a $400 set of earrings from Tiffany, and took her to an amazing lunch at The Plaza, but she still thinks I never do anything for her.

Is it wrong to constantly think about what it would be like to be with someone else? We got married right out of college so she’s only the 2nd person I’ve ever been with. I went to a therapist a year ago but it didn’t do any good. I know that if we did couples counseling she’ll find a way to turn everything on me like she normally does. I don’t know what else to do and I’m tired of being angry.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Have you actually talked to her about how you feel.
It is highly likely that your anger is coming out in some way, causing her to go respond similarly.
What about MC?
How old are your kids.
Being with someone else is not a solution, you will bring your own problems to another relationship. Cheating is not a solution either.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Honestly, no, there is nothing wrong with thinking what things would be like with someone else...as long as that someone else is a completely not-real, completely hypothetical person that is not starting to obscure your thoughts about your wife or pull your attention and affection away from your wife. In fact, it's completely natural for someone in your position and your current thought process to think about and wonder what it's like to be with someone else or want to be with someone else.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Is she a SAHM? wondering why you are thinking of a life with someone else. Are you getting kibble's outside of the home? Have you explain this to your wife instead of sulking do something to change it. Take charge and be the husband your wife needs. I sense that you have something on the horizon, that is causing you to nitpick you wife. And looking to justify and rationalize the " feelings " you seem to have. Am l wrong or is it something you can't admit?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

aine said:


> Have you actually talked to her about how you feel.
> It is highly likely that your anger is coming out in some way, causing her to go respond similarly.
> What about MC?
> How old are your kids.
> Being with someone else is not a solution, you will bring your own problems to another relationship. Cheating is not a solution either.


We have not tried MC yet and I fear that if we do she will use that opportunity to turn everything on me. My kids are 13, 11, 10, and 5.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Honestly, no, there is nothing wrong with thinking what things would be like with someone else...as long as that someone else is a completely not-real, completely hypothetical person that is not starting to obscure your thoughts about your wife or pull your attention and affection away from your wife. In fact, it's completely natural for someone in your position and your current thought process to think about and wonder what it's like to be with someone else or want to be with someone else.


I have not engaged in any affairs or cheating. It's all in my head, but it's there for a reason I think.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Is she a SAHM? wondering why you are thinking of a life with someone else. Are you getting kibble's outside of the home? Have you explain this to your wife instead of sulking do something to change it. Take charge and be the husband your wife needs. I sense that you have something on the horizon, that is causing you to nitpick you wife. And looking to justify and rationalize the " feelings " you seem to have. Am l wrong or is it something you can't admit?


No, she used to be a SAHM for a while but has been a teacher for the last 7 or 8 years. I am not cheating but I feel like it's heading in that direction. I hold back from trying to explain it to her because she usually just gets upset and defensive whenever she hears something about her not being perfect.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

jatkins29 said:


> I have not engaged in any affairs or cheating. It's all in my head, but it's there for a reason I think.


It doesn't take an affair or cheating. It takes that girl at work who you talk to just a little too much or that girl at the grocery store who smiles at you just a little too long when you're there. They don't seem like much, but they are the drop that overflows the bathtub. They take your mind other places and away from your marriage and positive thoughts about your wife.

When you 2 got married 15 years ago, what drew you towards her. What attracted you to her in the first place?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

jatkins29 said:


> No, she used to be a SAHM for a while but has been a teacher for the last 7 or 8 years. I am not cheating but I feel like it's heading in that direction. I hold back from trying to explain it to her because she usually just gets upset and defensive whenever she hears something about her not being perfect.


Feeling like it's heading in that direction, IS a red flag, now put your self in your wife's shoes for a min. And you are all loving and stressed, because you feel a change in your husband. What would you feel like. Maybe you wife is doing this to get your attention because she can not be direct. And this way at least gets you engaged in the marriage. If you are wise get that tiney weenie of of the picture and quit thinking with the lower head. 

And yes I'm a man.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

jatkins29 said:


> If I don’t hug her or kiss her right away when I see her she thinks something’s wrong and then pouts about it for hours. If we don’t have sex several times a week she just makes the assumption I don’t want to or that I don’t find her attractive.


It sounds to me like your wife has grown insecure in your relationship. As far as the sex - so many stories on here about sexless marriages. A lot of guys would kill to be in your shoes. So I would embrace that part of your marriage with as much passion as you can. Be the best lover you can be. 

It also sounds to me like you're not doing a very good job of leading your family. Your wife is nagging you about all these tasks - are they really that important that they need to be done right now? If they're not then come up with a plan of action - "I'll do that one tomorrow, and the other one on Saturday". And letting her nagging and bad mood affect your mood just puts the whole thing down the drain. She's looking for strength from you and you're just bending over and taking it. Sounds like she's losing respect for you.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Or maybe she is just a nasty nagging needy bbbbeeeeaaaaaatttttccchhhhhh !!!!!

At least you came here early enough to head off this problem at the pass instead of waiting until y'all were knee deep in horse crap.

As much as you might think she is going to turn the poker table around on you in counselling .... the counselors are trained for that stuff.

That's not to say your professional might not be stuffed with BS up the butt like a scarecrow in a corn field but you can always find a different one y'all like.

On another note I always recommend if a woman is *****in' she ain't getting enough sex..... you better consider dragging her out to the barn and giving it to her hard and often.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jatkins29 said:


> So I’m brand new here. Thank you in advance to those who will respond to my situation. For the past year or so, I have not felt very close to my wife. We have been married for 15 years and have 4 kids. She has become very irritable and controlling of me to the point to where I am thinking about what it would be like to not be with her anymore and with someone else. I can’t walk by her in the house or even sit down for a few minutes without her yelling for me to do this or do that. Don’t get me wrong – I love helping out around the house and with the kids, but she is constantly on my back. If I stand up to her and tell her no, that sets her off even more. She usually gives me the “of course, you never do what I ask” speech. Yesterday, I made it a point just to count in my head how many times she asked me to do something and I came up with 8 different tasks.


Why is she asking you to do things? Are you not doing your part of household/child duties? Because what I am reading here is she is trying to get you to help and you are saying no and sitting around instead. If that is true, then you need to do your part WITHOUT her prompting you... I mean you arent a child, you know good and well what needs to be done, so just do it and I bet a lot of this nagging goes away. 



jatkins29 said:


> She is also becoming very needy. If I don’t hug her or kiss her right away when I see her she thinks something’s wrong and then pouts about it for hours. If we don’t have sex several times a week she just makes the assumption I don’t want to or that I don’t find her attractive.


You call this being needy, I see it as you are not meeting her needs for affection. Why are you ignoring these needs? Just kiss her when you get home, why is this hard or looked at like some kind of chore? And I cant believe you are complaining that your wife actually WANTS sex. Again, her needs are not being met. 



jatkins29 said:


> I do everything I can to make her happy and treat her well. I took her on a trip to New York City last month, bought her a $400 set of earrings from Tiffany, and took her to an amazing lunch at The Plaza, but she still thinks I never do anything for her.


Maybe receiving gifts is not her love language. Are these generous things to do? Of course they are, and should be appreciated. However, I would bet that she would much rather you pull your weight and show her physical affection than give her a pair of earrings or take her out to eat.



jatkins29 said:


> Is it wrong to constantly think about what it would be like to be with someone else? We got married right out of college so she’s only the 2nd person I’ve ever been with. I went to a therapist a year ago but it didn’t do any good. I know that if we did couples counseling she’ll find a way to turn everything on me like she normally does. I don’t know what else to do and I’m tired of being angry.


No it isnt wrong to have thoughts, but it seems you are getting too caught up in these thoughts and allowing them to interfere in your marriage. I would bet that there is someone specific you have in mind, maybe someone you have been talking to a little too much lately? You are checked out and I have a feeling your issues with your wife are her reacting to that.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Back in my nasty red pill days, it occurred to me that I shouldn't be giving my wife shiny things when she isn't nice to me. 

Now, this was based in some not-so-hidden misogyny in the community... but I think the idea rings true.

I still don't give my wife shiny things when she's not nice to me. Because why would I? It's not a control mechanism, or a conditioning mechanism, it's more of a... 'I'm not going to roll out the red carpet for someone to walk all over me' thing.

So I'm wondering if your wife has learned that by complaining continually about you not doing nice things for her leads to (a) getting lots of nice things and (b) space to be lazy and not reciprocate and (c) continually criticize you about everything... _because it works._


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> It doesn't take an affair or cheating. It takes that girl at work who you talk to just a little too much or that girl at the grocery store who smiles at you just a little too long when you're there. They don't seem like much, but they are the drop that overflows the bathtub. They take your mind other places and away from your marriage and positive thoughts about your wife.
> 
> When you 2 got married 15 years ago, what drew you towards her. What attracted you to her in the first place?



She was fun, beautiful, easy-going and really understood me. Now the only thing left of those is that she is beautiful.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Feeling like it's heading in that direction, IS a red flag, now put your self in your wife's shoes for a min. And you are all loving and stressed, because you feel a change in your husband. What would you feel like. Maybe you wife is doing this to get your attention because she can not be direct. And this way at least gets you engaged in the marriage. If you are wise get that tiney weenie of of the picture and quit thinking with the lower head.
> 
> And yes I'm a man.


If I could control thinking about other opportunities I probably wouldn’t have posted here. Am I perfect? No. And I there are times when I am difficult to live with. But I feel like she’s taking advantage of me and she doesn’t realize it.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why is she asking you to do things? Are you not doing your part of household/child duties? Because what I am reading here is she is trying to get you to help and you are saying no and sitting around instead. If that is true, then you need to do your part WITHOUT her prompting you... I mean you arent a child, you know good and well what needs to be done, so just do it and I bet a lot of this nagging goes away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do a TON around the house and with helping the kids. I am not lazy and I do my part. Why she feels like she needs to spit out 3 or 4 tasks to me at once I don’t know but it is f*****g annoying and it is driving me away. 

I think this annoyance is decreasing my desire to be affectionate with her. I am not complaining that she wants sex. I am complaining about her behavior if she doesn’t get enough of it and we do it at least 2-3 times a week. Sometimes I am simply not in the mood. Other times I am in pain (I had a testicular cyst removed and have had multiple scrotal surgeries that often hurt during sex and after). If I am honest with her and tell her if I am not in the mood or in pain, she yells at me and pouts the rest of the night. Would that response make you desire to have sex?

There is no one specific in mind and I am not proactively searching for someone either.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Jatkins, l know what you feel and l didn't say your perfect. Some us men have walked in your shoes. And what l was doing was a verbal 2x4. To shake you alittle. That said it was a friend who did the same thing to me. And that pause allowed me to regain control of my emotions. I am still with my wife and I am glad you are here and hope you find what you are seeking. But if is just wanting validation, their may come those who believe as you and back up want. But if you don't hear all sides how can you make an informed decision. 

And we who hang here have gotten our thick skin the hard way. Because the destruction of your marriage is something you need to consider wisely.

So just put on your big boy boots and walk through the mire of suggestion, and hope you make the right decision. That will forever change your life and those you leave behind.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why are you afraid of your wife?

Why are you afraid of counseling?

Why are you afraid?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I am wondering what the reasons are she is mad at you as often as you state. Not the reasons you may think but the reasons in her heart.

When fights are picked it is because the people picking them pick them with intent... often from harbored resentment or anger, and often such unhappiness from within themselves while learning how to treat you during the moments that their world doesn't align.

Counseling is a chance to bring things forward on neutral ground... so what if she turns everything on you?

If they have a resemblance of truth then own it.. denial cannot hide in the light.

If they are not true, then do not feel obligated to defend yourself, they are not true... say "I came to this decision from X" and move on.

When we lash out, such tend to grow from a place far too familiar... often a fed hypocrisy with fear.

How is her happiness outside the marriage? You said she is a teacher... primary or secondary? 

How did she spend her summer?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

jatkins29 said:


> I do a TON around the house and with helping the kids. I am not lazy and I do my part. Why she feels like she needs to spit out 3 or 4 tasks to me at once I don’t know but it is f*****g annoying and it is driving me away.
> 
> I think this annoyance is decreasing my desire to be affectionate with her. I am not complaining that she wants sex. I am complaining about her behavior if she doesn’t get enough of it and we do it at least 2-3 times a week. Sometimes I am simply not in the mood. Other times I am in pain (I had a testicular cyst removed and have had multiple scrotal surgeries that often hurt during sex and after). *If I am honest with her and tell her if I am not in the mood or in pain, she yells at me and pouts the rest of the night.* Would that response make you desire to have sex?


...rejection is a strong fear.

You do realize this comes from her being afraid, don't you?

Fear is fear, matters not if it is accurate or made up, the apprehension and anxiety if not addressed will break our feelings for another nonetheless.

In transparency, only trust allows our fears to be shared with another, think about rebuilding your portion of leadership in your relationship... how would you see yourself not reacting but responding?

Reacting is an action from being afraid... and Far's three questions narrow that down.



Oh... in addition to thinking about that, get yourself a little memo pad and write down every task she asks for... you are not doing this for her, you are doing it for you.

Sort them all, the done and undone and then review them... is there a pattern you can identify?

Is there any ownership or are there any healthy boundaries that can come from such patterns if present?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Counseling is a chance to bring things forward on neutral ground... so what if she turns everything on you?
> 
> If they have a resemblance of truth then own it.. denial cannot hide in the light.
> 
> If they are not true, then do not feel obligated to defend yourself, they are not true... say "I came to this decision from X" and move on.


Exactly. I don't see how marriage counseling can possibly be worse than the situation he's presently in. In fact, when I chose a marriage counselor for my wife and I, I looked for one that might be as sympathetic to my wife as possible, and prayed that my wife would connect with her and that the MC would be able to see past her attempts to twist & distort some things. 

I don't think MC will be a fun experience for this particular couple, but if both are willing to invest time... a lot of time... if each are willing to understand the process might take many, many months... then I think it's got a good chance of working out. If anyone's looking for a quick fix, that isn't going to happen. If anyone's looking for a steady path of improvement, that isn't going to happen. But if both are willing to accept there is a real problem, and they're willing to invest a lot of time addressing it, you have to try. If nothing else, making that investment in time is an indication each believes there's something worth saving.

I should point out that you also have to take the long view about the truth coming out. 

Says the guy who's what, three months or so into counseling so far? 

Oh, the actual topic was "Considering separation." I think that's a really dangerous path to head down. Came within an hour or so of deciding it was time my wife and I didn't sleep in the same bed & house anymore. Had that happened, I don't know if we'd still be together. It was actually my wife that suggested not coming home that night, because she was causing me so much distress. I told her that wasn't the way to fix this; that if it came to that, we might not recover. That night we decided to go for marriage counseling before doing anything rash.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I believe it was counseling in my last marriage that finally allowed my ex to scratch the surface of her honesty and admit that moving the quality of that marriage was not really something she was interested in which explained why our struggles had been so hard for the last 20 years in the marriage.

Patience is required in truth... too much thought about future will only become frustrating.

For me, the present was an invaluable tool because it is so much easier to respond to the now rather than worry about a future anticipation outside of my control where "me" was about the extent of any control anyways.


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## Onarollercoaster (Nov 7, 2019)

Have you talked to your wife about what the issues are? I'm talking about an actual conversation and not passive-aggressive hints or other indirect communication? I think she deserves to know these things are very serious, and possibly deal-breakers. 

I am currently separated from my husband. He thought I knew certain things were driving him away, but when he told me he wanted a divorce, I was blindsided. I knew something was bothering him, but I didn't think it had anything to do with our marriage. I guess the main takeaway is that my husband thought he was communicating the issues with me, but it was so indirect that I did not get the message. 

I will say that separation has improved our communication, but I don't really recommend it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

jatkins29 said:


> If I could control thinking about other opportunities I probably wouldn’t have posted here. Am I perfect? No. And I there are times when I am difficult to live with. But I feel like she’s taking advantage of me and she doesn’t realize it.


(a) it's convenient for her not to realize it, because you keep giving her shiny things no matter what she does.

(b) even if she did realize it, she wouldn't have to actually do anything about it because you accept what she does no matter what.

(c) she has no motivation to change.

(d) the only one here with a problem is you. She's doing just fine the way things are.


So she has zero motivation to change, zero consequences if she doesn't, and every motivation to keep things the way they are. So why would she?

She yells at you? You leave.

She criticizes you? You laugh.

She orders you around? Do what I did and pull out a chair for her and say "here's your throne, your highness... sit on it with all of your servants to order around." And then leave.

She tries to make you feel sorry for her not getting shiny things or because her life is harder now that you have a backbone? "You can throw yourself all the pity parties you want, but that doesn't mean I have to come." And then you walk away and go do something fun.

She gives you the silent treatment? You realize that she can't yell or criticize and be silent at the same time, so that means you get to do whatever you want scott free.

The hugs and kisses stop immediately until she treats you better.

The gifts stop immediately until she treats you better.

The lunches stop immediately until she treats you better.

The sex because she demands it stops immediately until she treats you better. And let me guess - you're probably doing all the work there, too right? That stops, too.

Every time she flips out on you, you reiterate: "I deserve better than what I'm getting from you. I am not happy with this relationship."


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> (a) it's convenient for her not to realize it, because you keep giving her shiny things no matter what she does.
> 
> (b) even if she did realize it, she wouldn't have to actually do anything about it because you accept what she does no matter what.
> 
> ...


The OP could have been my ex husband and me. 

I really, really wish he'd done the things you recommended. They would have helped me emotionally detach enough that I may have been at the same place emotionally when the divorce talk hit.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jatkins29 said:


> She was fun, beautiful, easy-going and really understood me. Now the only thing left of those is that she is beautiful.


Are you still the same as when she first fell in love with you?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> The OP could have been my ex husband and me.
> 
> I really, really wish he'd done the things you recommended. They would have helped me emotionally detach enough that I may have been at the same place emotionally when the divorce talk hit.


What I'm really after here is to change the power dynamic - meaning she gets to do whatever she wants, act abusively, etc... and he just does nice things to her as a response.

She can decide to either reciprocate and get rewarded, equivocate and not get rewarded, or prepare to leave herself. She can't actually be happy being like this, but she clearly has no internal motivation to change either for her benefit or his.

Operant conditioning can trap everyone, even if they're aware of it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > The OP could have been my ex husband and me.
> ...


I prefer to get more information about the OP's personal behaviors affecting the dynamics in the relationship rather than assuming he's doing everything right and she's the evil one who needs to be trained to respond. She may just be reacting to his behaviors, that have nothing to do with power dynamic. He did admit that he's no angel. I'm more curious what that means.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> I prefer to get more information about the OP's personal behaviors affecting the dynamics in the relationship rather than assuming he's doing everything right and she's the evil one who needs to be trained to respond. She may just be reacting to his behaviors, that have nothing to do with power dynamic. He did admit that he's no angel. I'm more curious what that means.


It could be very true. Nobody is. The baseline dynamic remains she yells -> he gives. Whether that yelling has been triggered by him remains in question, but that cycle needs to break at any rate.

Even if he's an ******* triggering the whole thing, him pulling away attention will trigger a shift and a conversation that can yield results - but only on an even, honest playing field.

The point is not to train her, it's to break any unconscious conditioning in both of them that reinforces a negative stimulus/response cycle and force an intervention.

Let me give you a real example of mine, that I've used before: my wife asking me to vacuum. She asked me, so I did it. She then came up, "supervised" me, and criticized the job - by pointing out that the 'lines' in the carpet weren't straight. I had never noticed before then that vacuuming left lines in the carpet. I said I didn't care about the lines, she asked me to vacuum so I was vacuuming. And successfully getting the carpet clean. She insisted I was doing it wrong, that I didn't know how to vacuum properly, and insisted I started doing it right.

So when she started being aggressive and rude about it, I dropped the vacuum and walked away. This of course made her very angry.

When she tried to express that anger to me, I refused to engage with her about it. When she calmed down, I used the conflict to set some ground rules: you can ask me to do something, or tell me how to do it, but you can't do both. To me, vacuuming is about cleanliness. To her, it was more. So... when I vacuum now (rarely - it's now a 'pink' job), she leaves me to it, knowing I'll get it clean but not look the way she wants it. If she wants it that way, she can do it herself, because that's _reasonable_.

What she can't do is screech at me and just have me running around making her happy as a consequence. We tried that relationship style, and it didn't work for either one of us. But the more I ran around responding to that stuff, the harder it was for her to see it was unreasonable, and the less I listened to her valid criticism about the stuff I was or wasn't doing... because all I heard or cared about was the screeching.

But you have to be unafraid of conflict to get there. The one that is more unafraid of conflict usually wins the conflict - and that was certainly my wife. Until it wasn't.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer to get more information about the OP's personal behaviors affecting the dynamics in the relationship rather than assuming he's doing everything right and she's the evil one who needs to be trained to respond. She may just be reacting to his behaviors, that have nothing to do with power dynamic. He did admit that he's no angel. I'm more curious what that means.
> ...


It really sounds to me like OP is the one that is afraid of having a conversation. He won't even go to MC because he's afraid the counselor will make it seem like it's his fault. Major red flag when I read stuff like that. 
@jatkins29, I have some questions...

1) are you currently employed? 

2) you said your wife says "you never do as I asked" when you ignore her requests? Do you have a history of ignoring her or not listening to her?

3) you said you took your wife to New York City. What do you mean by You took your wife? Did you plan the vacation? Was it a surprise or something you two had talked about doing for a while? Was the plaza her idea or yours? 

4) do you compliment your wife? Does she know you think she's beautiful?

5) do you take your wife out on dates? Dates that you plan?

6) When did you start having these feelings? Was it before or after your cyst surgery?


ETA:

7) you stated "We got married right out of college so she’s only the 2nd person I’ve ever been with.". Is that a problem for you? Are you starting to wonder what it's like to have more experience with other women?

8) you said you went to a therapist a year ago but it didn't help. What did you go see the therapist about?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

I guess you could say I am afraid of the confrontation, the fighting, and the screaming that will ultimately result from this.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Why are you afraid of your wife?
> 
> Why are you afraid of counseling?
> 
> ...


I guess you could say I'm afraid of the fighting, screaming, and the confrontation.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Lila said:


> It really sounds to me like OP is the one that is afraid of having a conversation. He won't even go to MC because he's afraid the counselor will make it seem like it's his fault. Major red flag when I read stuff like that.
> @jatkins29, I have some questions...
> 
> 1) are you currently employed?
> ...


1)	Yes, I am currently employed and have had a steady job in the financial industry for 15 years straight (no layoffs, etc.)
2)	I wouldn’t say I ignore her or not listen to her, but we’re just both super busy with 4 kids, jobs, and other activities. Not to mention I’m working on my PhD so time is very limited. Often times, she’ll ask me to do something while I am focusing on something else. Because I have ADD and OCD it becomes a challenge to do multiple tasks.
3)	She and I had always dreamed of taking a trip to NYC but expenses always made it a challenge. I surprised her with the trip because I found very affordable travel and hotel deals so I made it happen. The Plaza was her idea. I didn’t care whether I went there or not, but it was a dream she’s always had and she made the reservation.
4)	Constantly. And yes she knows. I tell her many times every day. 
5)	Yes, we go out once a week. Sometimes it’ll just be a casual “do you want to go get a drink” and other times it’ll be a nice restaurant. 
6)	I started having the feelings after the surgery. The pain kept happening after we had sex so I started dreading having the pain again. Even though I told her it had nothing to do with her, she took it to mean I wasn’t attracted to her. 
7)	I wonder that often. The first woman I was with while I was in college was 5 years younger than me. I proposed to her too early and she broke it off a year later. 
8)	I went to see the therapist about this same issue.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Jatkins, l know what you feel and l didn't say your perfect. Some us men have walked in your shoes. And what l was doing was a verbal 2x4. To shake you alittle. That said it was a friend who did the same thing to me. And that pause allowed me to regain control of my emotions. I am still with my wife and I am glad you are here and hope you find what you are seeking. But if is just wanting validation, their may come those who believe as you and back up want. But if you don't hear all sides how can you make an informed decision.
> 
> And we who hang here have gotten our thick skin the hard way. Because the destruction of your marriage is something you need to consider wisely.
> 
> So just put on your big boy boots and walk through the mire of suggestion, and hope you make the right decision. That will forever change your life and those you leave behind.


I appreciate the advise and all the suggestions here. Keeping the relationship with my kids is what's definitely holding me back from doing anything further.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I am wondering what the reasons are she is mad at you as often as you state. Not the reasons you may think but the reasons in her heart.
> 
> When fights are picked it is because the people picking them pick them with intent... often from harbored resentment or anger, and often such unhappiness from within themselves while learning how to treat you during the moments that their world doesn't align.
> 
> ...



She seems to be stressed outside of the marriage. She lets things that happen at work carry over at home. She often can't sleep for hours because she spends so much time worrying about things that happen during the work day. She is a special needs teacher in a middle school setting (7th graders). She had a very relaxing summer and didn’t have to worry about work at all.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jatkins29 said:


> 1)	Yes, I am currently employed and have had a steady job in the financial industry for 15 years straight (no layoffs, etc.)
> 2)	I wouldn’t say I ignore her or not listen to her, but we’re just both super busy with 4 kids, jobs, and other activities. Not to mention I’m working on my PhD so time is very limited. Often times, she’ll ask me to do something while I am focusing on something else. Because I have ADD and OCD it becomes a challenge to do multiple tasks.
> 3)	She and I had always dreamed of taking a trip to NYC but expenses always made it a challenge. I surprised her with the trip because I found very affordable travel and hotel deals so I made it happen. The Plaza was her idea. I didn’t care whether I went there or not, but it was a dream she’s always had and she made the reservation.
> 4)	Constantly. And yes she knows. I tell her many times every day.
> ...


Have you been to the doctor to discuss the pain you experience with sex? That is worrisome.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think there are alot of things mixed up here with your super busy lives, your pain, her frustration. Teaching special needs kids is draining, so please do not discount the pressure she is under, and from reading your comments you seem to have a bit of an air of superiority. The fact that you have 4 kids (I am positive that as the mother she bears the lion's share of the work), both full time jobs is exhausting. Summer may be off for her but so are the kids and all their extra curricular activities, etc. You make it sound like you have all the burden and that is BS***. 

The real issue I see here is doing your PhD. Carving out time from a busy career and full family life is very tough. I have been there. You are beginning to resent the fact that you have so much on your plate and want to put her on the shelf so that you can do what you want to do. Single minded focus is a great thing in terms of meeting goals but not in terms of relationships. You may well end up with a PhD but you will lose your marriage and when it is done, may regret it. The fact that you have OCD and ADD is also a hindrance to focusing and I am sure you end up blaming your wife. She is frustrated with the lack of engagement as doing the PhD means you have to be single minded.
I would suggest that 
1. you talk to her about this.
2. You both sit down and plan time for your PhD where you cannot be disturbed if you are at home.
3. Ideally you go to a local library, or even coffee shop to do the work for a few hours a few times a week and then take one day at the weekend. Discuss this with your wife saying you need her support. She will also need your support with 4 kids, you cannot simply work full time and do your phd and dump everything else on her. I experienced this with my H but I was the one handling kids, home, work and PhD and it did some damage to our marriage as I was resentful and realized I couldn't rely on him.
4. You must be honest with her about your pain during sex. Explain that you love her, desire her but this is an issue, one which you might have to see a doctor about.
5. Do not confuse her response, your resentment etc and decide to throw the baby out with the bath water.
6. Communication is key. Make time to relax and have a date night. Check in with each other, see how things are going.
This is solvable, and looking for someone else is not going to make things better. You will take the same issues with you.


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## Vigi (Nov 20, 2019)

Jat! Wow! There are so many women who want what you give to your wife. I bend over backwards and would scream off the roof if I had it. 
Sit her down. Tell her blatantly how you feel. If she doesn't try to change along with you making compromises then...you are like me. Keep thinking she/he will change. 
At least you are able to financially make changes. I'm stuck with him bc of it.
Get out if she doesn't appreciate you and your compassion and love.


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## Vigi (Nov 20, 2019)

Betrayal comes in many forms. I've been left without affection, sex or compassion. I've been verbally abused, even last night we were in public (where he loves to treat me with disrespect) and out of nowhere, he tells everyone that she (me) can sit on the object needed to be held in place! 
It's usually things like that or about my hair, or clothes. Constant condemnation. 
I just lost 30lbs from being very sick! Obviously not enough?
Between the lack of love, and connection added with the constant abuse...I told him I'm done! He does not care bc he knows I have no where to go. I hate my life!


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