# Depression / Bi polar husband, dragging me down too!



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

_Husband has been a "moody" guy ever since we met, thought it was funny to begin with but now is stressing our relationship, he has not been diagnosed by a medical doctor becasue he REFUSES to be seen. He knows he is moody.. but refuses to get help... unfortunately after years of dealing with this, I now feel like my only way to get away is to ignore the repeated mood swings... to a point that I too find myself slowly becoming depressed.. 

Then in a split second, he acts fine- then back again for no reason, I feel like I am slowly being drained of my resilence to understand this problem. 

Kids tiptoe around him because he can snap and get angry at even the most smallest of things 
its driving the whole house crazy! Tried telling him, what this is doig but he treats it as nothing! 

We live our days depending on HIS moods... and I am slowly finding that I am swaying to this as well... I feel like a yo-yo , and this isn't me at all to feel down and up and down! 

It TRY to ignore this, and simply try to do other things to occupy my mind away from it, but when you live with the person, its hard to ignore...

Driving me crazy!!! HELP!! _


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

savannah said:


> _Husband has been a "moody" guy ever since we met,...
> Then in a split second, he acts fine- then back again for no reason._


Savannah, the behaviors you describe do not sound like bipolar traits but, rather, the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found eight clear differences between the two disorders.

One difference is that the mood swings are on two very different spectrums having different polar extremes. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _devaluing you_. Significantly, you are describing a H who exhibits no mania at all. Moreover, he flips from loving you to verbally abusing you, and then back to loving you again. Granted, you believe he does exhibit depression -- but most BPD sufferers suffer depression (without the mania).

A second difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. With rare exception, bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. The latter therefore is consistent with your description of his numerous temper tantrums.

A third difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, these short-duration rages are consistent with with the tantrums you describe.

A fourth difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Significantly, the behavior you describe is consistent with these event-triggered outbursts. As you say, "_Then in a split second, he acts fine- then back again for no reason."_

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

A sixth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of hateful behavior.

A seventh difference is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger -- which is consistent with your description of his anger so easily triggered because it is always there, right under the skin.

Finally, an eighth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Hence, if your H has strong BPD traits, it is easy to explain why he has had an irrational fear -- for 20 years -- of you leaving him for your exBF. BPDers have a great fear of abandonment and, because they are unable to trust themselves, they are unable to trust others.

Yet, despite these eight clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that a substantial portion of BPD sufferers (about 25%) also have the bipolar disorder.


> Kids tiptoe around him because he can snap and get angry at even the most smallest of things.


The tiptoeing you describe -- called "walking on eggshells" -- is what the partners of BPDers do to avoid triggering the anger. This is why the #1 best selling BPD book (targeted to these partners) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.


> _Sometime I feel that I am going crazy! (Your "Crazy Jealousy" thread.)_


Because BPDers flip back and forth between loving you and devaluing you, the spouses of BPDers become disoriented and confused -- with many feeling that they may be losing their minds. Indeed, of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the ONLY ONE that is notorious for making the PARTNERS feel like they may be going crazy.


> _Driving me crazy!!! HELP!! _


Savannah, it this discussion rings a bell, I suggest you read more about BPD traits so you are able to spot all nine of the red flags. Of course, you will not be able to determine whether your H has full-blown BPD. Nor will I. Only professionals can perform a diagnosis, i.e., determine whether the traits are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic threshold. 

You nonetheless are perfectly capable of spotting the red flags, i.e., strong occurrences of the traits. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, cold withdrawal, irrational jealousy, inappropriate anger, and black-white thinking.

An easy place to start reading is my description of such traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If most of those traits sound very familiar, I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Savannah.


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

@UPTOWN- YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! That is all true! I guess I never knew the difference, but all you mentioned are correct! 

Do BPD people know they have this? Im not a doctor, but when you said it may be a core thing he's had... I simply thought of how controlling his parents were growing up-- he and his siblings were never allowed to "speak their minds" they simply followed orders! To this day he recents that his parents dictated his path in college education on something he never liked, and now is in a job that he is not happy in... I think he was very angry he could never be "himself" ... so I'm just realizing now that maybe all the anger he kept in is now coming out once he was not living with his parents and had no one to really answer to?

His parents still to this day are ery narrow minded people who do not have any idea that people can have other interest in life. They live a cookie cutter mold of a life and raised their children this way... all four children went to college to pursue professions "mom and dad" felt fitting-- NOT ONE to this day, are in those professions!

Often I hear the four of them saying to each other, they feel cheated in choosing their lives... but never cofronted the parents even now, infear of dissapointing them.... Yeah... it's a bit crazy!

Just a thought!


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

BPD may not recognize they have a problem, because "that is just the way they are." These disorders are often developed as a child as a way of coping with their world and environment. Your husband recognized from an early age that it was not okay for him to have his own opinions or goals. He learned that the best way to stay "safe" was to not say anything.

What you might be able to do is continually reassure him that you value him and his opinions. Let him know that your way of doing things is not the only way of doing things.


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Sitting here, realizing that even indirectly all this more likely was a childhood issue ... How awful is it to have grown up not being able to express your opinions, and was only TOLD what to do.

He tried the same tactics with our own children when they were much younger, I recognized it right away from HIS own stories of his parents... NIPPED THAT RIGHT AWAY! 

It is so amazing what damage in life a child can gets with contrilling parents! ** By the way his parents both hate me because I SPEAK MY MIND, VERY OFTEN, drives them nuts!!! HAHAHA!**


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

savannah said:


> Do BPD people know they have this?


I agree with Riverside that, generally, they do not know. Like the other personality disorders, BPD is said to be "ego-syntonic" -- i.e., the thought distortion is invisible to the BPDer because it is the way he has been thinking since the age of 3 or 4. 

Yet, unlike narcissists, BPDers do have a vague awareness that something is wrong with them and they oftentimes feel "fake" because they know the self image they project is not real. Narcissists, in contrast, are so fully out of touch with their true selves that they believe the false self image to be true.


> He and his siblings were never allowed to "speak their minds" they simply followed orders!


BPDers usually are continually invalidated in early childhood -- made to feel that their feelings aren't real or don't count for anything. This is why it is extremely important to a BPDer that you validate him. Unfortunately, the thing he most wants validated is his false self image of being "the victim."


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## smarti36 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am sitting here reading this after all these years of wondering what was happening. Now, I GET IT! 

He just went to the doctor a few weeks ago and was given an anti depressant and has been a dream husband. The wierd thing about it is it's like he is in love all over again. Rollercoaster for sure!! When he is mad he is MAD. Says terrible things to me and then leaves us. Goes to his mom's for a week or so.

Now, It's like he has moments of clarity. We are currently in that moment I guess. 

Reading this thread might have just changed my life!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

smarti36 said:


> I am sitting here reading this after all these years of wondering what was happening. Now, I GET IT!


Smarti, I'm glad to hear that you find the BPD information casts light on your H's behavior. I wholeheartedly agree. Indeed, that's what I suggested last September in your thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...71-he-left-us-again-10th-time.html#post418526. Unfortunately, in that post, I mistakenly gave you the wrong link for my posts in Blacksmith's thread. The correct link is http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-complicated-marriage-dynamic.html#post358403.


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Well... BPD sure makes sense with my H now!!!
He does constantly ask for re-assurance... I thought it was a joke when ever he does something around the house and tells me... " I finished that project early... wasn't that great??!" , I nod, thinking it was a "conversation"... I now just realized it could mean more.

I do truly believe he's got issues from childhood. He will never openly admit this because to this day- his parents could do not harm, not even to him. That is always where he stands with his parents... he never comments, says anything or protests to anything that I even know he doesn't agree with... it's like he is 5 yrs old all over again in front of them!

I do know he feels a lot of recentment towards them... but as he will never even admit this openly, it is all bottled up inside with nowhere to go. I imagine this could be a cause why he becomes so irrate easily... its like he had too much caffeine, depressed, bi polar all in one! Snapping at everything that moves, given the chance!


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

The sad thing is, someone else set the stage for him early on, and now unfortunately you are his emotional punching bag for it. I hope he learns to seek some help. You need to do the same, time to take care of you.


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

@ CALLALILY- I know... others do the damage and I am left with the mess!
Sadly the MESS does not even know that he was damaged or who and why- So obviously, he looks to the NOW as to trying to find reasons to get angry..

Oooo- you're here, let me see what I can say to irritate YOU!
UgH! Not fair, not fair at all


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

My ex is BPD, I feel for you. I think he might have other issues too. Learn as much as you can about it to arm yourself for the times when he tries to make you feel like the worst person alive. It's not you, it's him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Borderline Personality Disorder is running rampant in these forums, and your husband sounds like a classic case. There is actually a book called STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS about this very thing. The bad thing about Borderline's is that they don't really think anything is wrong with them, it is everyone else who is the jerk, causing their dark moods. They feel attacked if you try to talk to them about it. 

After growing up walking on eggshells, I found myself in therapy when I grew up because my "fight or flight" instincts were all screwed up and my brain was wired like I was in a war (shrink's words, not mine). 

The worst thing my mother ever did to me was not leaving my father when we were young. Our lives would have been better. Do you ever speak to your children about his behavior? Are they terrified of him? Does he rule them by fear? Does he call you and the kids bad names? Does your husband look for things to yell about when everything seems fine? After an anger explosion, does he get really nice and forget his actions? We would still be crying from the yelling and the beatings and he would call us out of our rooms to play UNO with him like nothing bad had happened. You don't know what that does to a young kid's mind. 

You are the mother, and it is your job and duty to make sure your children are safe. Just because he is not hitting them does not mean they are not being abused (walking on eggshells, getting yelled at, their father throwing tantrums). I am living proof that Borderline people make awful parents. And even at 44 I am still angry with my mother for not saving us children (she is still with him by the way). Please take care of your children.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

savannah said:


> @UPTOWN- YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! That is all true! I guess I never knew the difference, but all you mentioned are correct!
> 
> Do BPD people know they have this? Im not a doctor, but when you said it may be a core thing he's had... I simply thought of how controlling his parents were growing up-- he and his siblings were never allowed to "speak their minds" they simply followed orders! To this day he recents that his parents dictated his path in college education on something he never liked, and now is in a job that he is not happy in... I think he was very angry he could never be "himself" ... so I'm just realizing now that maybe all the anger he kept in is now coming out once he was not living with his parents and had no one to really answer to?
> 
> ...


I was NEVER allowed to express my feelings growing up. All of my life, my father would say to me GET THAT LOOK OFF YOUR FACE! I cannot count the number of times I was hit and punished for a LOOK. I am 44, and my parents still say that to me! I have recently broken all ties with them because the cycle of abuse is still going on after all these years. And yes, my father was horribly neglected when he was a child and hates his mother to this day. Child abuse, the gift that keeps on giving :cussing: :whip:


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

@endlessgrief.. Sorry to hear you went through this forst hand.
I am watchful about how he isover ht echildren-- they are not fearful of him, more so like "careful"

As mentioned, anything and everything triggers this man into exploding... almost like a ticking bomb !

Several times he attempted to make issues be becasue of ME, I just lost it and screamed at him on why he is intent on being such an awful person. All he brings is misery to everyones day...!!!

He looks at me just quietly, with nothing to say as if he didnt know what I was talking about. We've gone through several bouts where I told him i was leaving if he did not change his tune.... so he does, for about a few weeks and back on again.

Its really an unconsious thing this BPD- How else can you explain not knowing how horrible a person you've become! We do still know when were being irrational and just insane! 

Sad part --- I get all this while his parents that did this to him don't have to deal with this at all. When I tried telling them about this they dismissed it as I WAS BEING TO HARD ON HIM! Whaaaaaat???!!!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My dad was like that (we are now estranged). The person I'm most upset with is my mom for not leaving.

I've spent $13K in therapy to heal from their combined abuse of me. 

People like that rarely heal. They think there is nothing wrong with them and YOU are the one with the problem.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

savannah said:


> @endlessgrief.. Sorry to hear you went through this forst hand.
> I am watchful about how he isover ht echildren-- they are not fearful of him, more so like "careful"
> 
> As mentioned, anything and everything triggers this man into exploding... almost like a ticking bomb !
> ...


Some people love to finger point and make accusations when they themselves are guilty. Remember this: WHEN ONE POINTS A FINGER ACCUSINGLY AT SOMEONE, THERE ARE THREE FINGERS POINTING BACK AT THEM! That saying has saved my sanity, it's like my mantra because you cannot argue with someone who is not on the same plane of existence.

You will never win a fight with a borderline because in their mind they are always right and they have no self-refection whatsoever. Talk about running on a treadmill and getting nowhere! Hang in there, you are starting to SEE and this the first step.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> My dad was like that (we are now estranged). The person I'm most upset with is my mom for not leaving.
> 
> I've spent $13K in therapy to heal from their combined abuse of me.
> 
> People like that rarely heal. They think there is nothing wrong with them and YOU are the one with the problem.


Oh my God Mavash, you and I have gone and are going through the same exact thing. My mother is who I am more angry with as well. How long have you not spoken to them? Do they know why? Do they know it was their fault and not yours?


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

endlessgrief said:


> Some people love to finger point and make accusations when they themselves are guilty. Remember this: WHEN ONE POINTS A FINGER ACCUSINGLY AT SOMEONE, THERE ARE THREE FINGERS POINTING BACK AT THEM! That saying has saved my sanity, it's like my mantra because you cannot argue with someone who is not on the same plane of existence.
> 
> You will never win a fight with a borderline because in their mind they are always right and they have no self-refection whatsoever. Talk about running on a treadmill and getting nowhere! Hang in there, you are starting to SEE and this the first step.


Running on a treadmill is right! :iagree:

I tell him this all the time.. I said that if we cannot make even the smallest of steps for improvement , we are just running in place over and over and over again....

I think that even if you have no long term solution, it would be fair to say to try and work to better the day.. at least ONE day at a time? Is that really that difficult?

GOAL: Today will be a better day-- and make all things about that day good... tomorrow is tomorrow

Problem is his "moods" always get in the way and ruins everything. I feel like I am going insane and feeling the same type of "depression" every now and then.
I am not a depressed person, nor do I like to start my day negatively... but lately, I've really having so much self pity... and general depressed state... It's horrible.


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