# Bras, Feminism and Nipples



## Anon Pink

When I was in high school, late 70's, girls didn't wear bras all the time. "Burn the bras" was still fresh in our collective minds and we frequently went without. Also, the bras at the time were either super constructed (Mom bras we called them) or they were simple triangular pieces of material that sort of offered support and shaping but never hid nipple show through. Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.

But today, nipple show through is like a huge fashion faux pas. Bras are super duper constructed with wires and padding and shaping enough to make an A cup look like a C cup.

Granted, today's bras are much prettier than the bras we had to choose from back in high school but have we allowed Victoria's Construction to shape our acceptance of our bodies? In the process of constructing pretty bras that do wonderous things to our décolletage our nipples have become the unspeakable; never to be seen, hidden at all costs. Not even in a bathing suit should nipples show through. 

What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


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## convert

Anon Pink said:


> When I was in high school, late 70's, girls didn't wear bras all the time. "Burn the bras" was still fresh in our collective minds and we frequently went without. Also, the bras at the time were either super constructed (Mom bras we called them) or they were simple triangular pieces of material that sort of offered support and shaping but never hid nipple show through. Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.
> 
> But today, nipple show through is like a huge fashion faux pas. Bras are super duper constructed with wires and padding and shaping enough to make an A cup look like a C cup.
> 
> Granted, today's bras are much prettier than the bras we had to choose from back in high school but have we allowed Victoria's Construction to shape our acceptance of our bodies? In the process of constructing pretty bras that do wonderous things to our décolletage our nipples have become the unspeakable; never to be seen, hidden at all costs. Not even in a bathing suit should nipples show through.
> 
> *What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?*


Good question. I am not sure of the answer, maybe men/boys still need to grow up.

I saw a women in a restaurant the other day and her nipples were showing, like "ultra high beams" for the life of me I could not stop staring.:surprise:
I think i even thought to myself, "man I need to grow up"

IDK, I find them sexy, just being honest here.


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## Amplexor

Anon Pink said:


> Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.











"Heh, heh, heh! She said nipple. Heh, heh.....


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## happy as a clam

Anon Pink said:


> What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


Ahhhh... the dreaded "nipple show-through"!!!

I wear TWO sports bras when working out (I'm a natural D/DD cup) and those highbeam headlights still shine through my workout top.

No idea why anyone thinks this is an attractive look and wants to flaunt it.

I think women with small, perky breasts might be able to get away with it (not sure why they would want to :scratchhead. Most of the rest of us with pendulous bazoombas would like them to quietly disappear...


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## Anon Pink

convert said:


> Good question. I am not sure of the answer, maybe men/boys still need to grow up.
> 
> I saw a women in a restaurant the other day and her nipples were showing, like "ultra high beams" for the life of me I could not stop staring.:surprise:
> I think i even thought to myself, "man I need to grow up"
> 
> IDK, I find them sexy, just being honest here.
> 
> after all, breast without nipples are pointless:grin2:



Well yes, nipples are sexy but so are many other parts of the body and yet we don't hide them with super padding.

I know you didn't mean to be insensitive Convert but careful there, a mastectomy removes the entire breast. Reconstruction allows for the shape of a breast but doesn't include the shape of a nipple. Some survivors seek tattoo artist is who can match the color and shape of a nipple with ink but it's still smooth skin with a scar running through it. 




Amplexor said:


> "Heh, heh, heh! She said nipple. Heh, heh.....


Amp you are so damn funny!


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## Anon Pink

happy as a clam said:


> Ahhhh... the dreaded "nipple show-through"!!!
> 
> I wear TWO sports bras when working out (I'm a natural D/DD cup) and those highbeam headlights still shine through my workout top.
> 
> No idea why anyone thinks this is an attractive look and wants to flaunt it.
> 
> I think women with small, perky breasts might be able to get away with it (not sure why they would want to :scratchhead. Most of the rest of us with pendulous bazoombas would like them to quietly disappear...


You want your nipples to disappear? You think nipple show through is unattractive? Why?


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## convert

Anon Pink said:


> Well yes, nipples are sexy but so are many other parts of the body and yet we don't hide them with super padding.
> 
> I know you didn't mean to be insensitive Convert but careful there, a mastectomy removes the entire breast. Reconstruction allows for the shape of a breast but doesn't include the shape of a nipple. Some survivors seek tattoo artist is who can match the color and shape of a nipple with ink but it's still smooth skin with a scar running through it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amp you are so damn funny!


I had not thought of that, i will edit


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## happy as a clam

Anon Pink said:


> You want your nipples to disappear? You think nipple show through is unattractive? Why?


I don't really give a rat's a$$ about my nipples showing!

But apparently, men DO, and I end up being gawked at. 

I'm at the gym to workout. Not to cause a sideshow.

Just wish they would go into hiding when I want them to... :surprise:


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## FeministInPink

I just don't like the stares. I never go without a bra, period. I'm a DD, so my chest gets enough stares already. Nips would probably make it even worse.


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## convert

happy as a clam said:


> I don't really give a rat's a$$ about my nipples showing!
> 
> *But apparently, men DO, and I end up being gawked at*.
> 
> I'm at the gym to workout. Not to cause a sideshow.
> 
> Just wish they would go into hiding when I want them to... :surprise:


yes, I believe this is why the trend is to cover them.
I believe it goes back to men/boys need to grow up (me included)


for some reason they are like magnets to our eyes

maybe if we saw them more often and be common place, guys would stop staring? but probably not


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## thefam

I don't like it either, Pink. To me it just looks unclassy. Team Too Much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

happy as a clam said:


> I don't really give a rat's a$$ about my nipples showing!
> 
> But apparently, men DO, and I end up being gawked at.
> 
> I'm at the gym to workout. Not to cause a sideshow.
> 
> Just wish they would go into hiding when I want them to... :surprise:


Okay interesting thoughts. You are uncomfortable with men gawking at you when you nipples show through. 

I completely understand that discomfort. 

What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


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## Anon Pink

@FeministInPink and @thefam nipple show through creates attention from men of a sexual nature and that is uncomfortable. 

But why? If you have a part of your body that gets sexual attention from men why does that make you uncomfortable?

TFam is pregnant so I know your swollen belly gets attention. Why is a swollen belly attention acceptable but nipple attention is not. They're both sexual in nature.


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## happy as a clam

Anon Pink said:


> Okay interesting thoughts. You are uncomfortable with men gawking at you when you nipples show through.
> 
> I completely understand that discomfort.
> 
> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


Because we *communicate* through our eyes. A look, a question, a suggestive glance. We GLARE at people with whom we are angry.

Nipples don't warrant the same "communication." My nipples get hard when I lift heavy weights... presumably from exertion and hormones flowing. I am NOT trying to convey a message with my nipples, whereas I AM sometimes trying to convey a look with my eyes -- happiness, anger, compassion, pain, sadness, love, etc.

Nipples operate on a "lizard" level... pure brain stem. If I could control them, I would. But I can't. 

I can DEFINITELY control what my eyes convey.


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## happy as a clam

Anon Pink said:


> Okay interesting thoughts. *You are uncomfortable* with men gawking at you when you nipples show through.


Not uncomfortable at all. You're misreading my comments.

I just find it distracting, that's all. If a guy at the gym had a* giant boner* while lifting weights and all the women were gawking, I think I can predict that he would quietly exit to the men's room.


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## Married but Happy

Ever since the 1970s, among women of that era there has been sagging support for bralessness. At least that's my perception. And IMO, nipples are never a faux pas.


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## thefam

Anon Pink said:


> @FeministInPink and @thefam nipple show through creates attention from men of a sexual nature and that is uncomfortable.
> 
> But why? If you have a part of your body that gets sexual attention from men why does that make you uncomfortable?


IDK. Probably from walking past too many construction sites during my working days. Cat calls, whistles, and comments on what they would love to do behind closed doors. Voluptuousness is not easily hidden if you're a fashion diva. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

Married but Happy said:


> And IMO, nipples are never a faux pas.


:rofl:

My SO happens to love when my nipples are "alert and on guard"!!

So I where nipple-happy clothes when we are together .


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## ConanHub

Anon Pink said:


> Okay interesting thoughts. You are uncomfortable with men gawking at you when you nipples show through.
> 
> I completely understand that discomfort.
> 
> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


Speaking as a sophomoric idiot man here but if I am looking at your eyes I might not be thinking about anything sexual, maybe.

I'm goggling your hooters and I'm probably not considering your higher functions. Nipples are not as ambiguous as eyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

BTW. Thanks a lot for making me think! Sarcasm.

I only checked this thread out because I'm a pervert! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

ConanHub said:


> I only checked this thread out because I'm a pervert!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't have to be a perv to be curious about nipple fashion!

:lol:


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## Faithful Wife

Anon, you win best thread title of the month.

I can't stop staring at nipples either, so I'm just as bad as Beavis and Butthead.

Anon, do YOU feel compelled to look at nipples when they are poking out? If you don't feel that compulsion, I can see why it would be hard to understand it.

I wish I could ignore it, (though I am able to avert my eyes, of course), but it is annoying to me that I feel I have no control over my desire to look. It is truly a visceral thing. It is nothing like noticing someone's sexy eyes, or a pregnant belly.


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## NextTimeAround

Well, it is possible that one day nipples can more than just ornamental (outside of childbearing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTv9AhCuSU4


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## NextTimeAround

My husband and I regularly watch Botched on the e-channel. Two plastic surgeons will give reparative surgeries to people who had gotten a raw deal in earlier surgeries.

Whenever they show the woman patients topless, they always cover the nipples.


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## Buddy400

Anon Pink said:


> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


I don't think men need to grow up in terms of what they find sexy. That can't be helped. They do need to not be rude and gawk.

I recently met a sales woman so attractive (figure, facial skin texture, fingernails, everything) that I had trouble concentrating on what she was saying. I didn't gawk, but it was hard to focus.

I don't know what either of us is supposed to do about that.


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## NextTimeAround

My sister who runs a medical practice has remarked at how saleswomen who make calls at her office look as if they are going to night club as opposed to trying to sell medical equipment.

IF another woman is noticing how provocative women are addressing, I can only imagine what other men are thinking.


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## Rowan

Anon Pink said:


> Okay interesting thoughts. You are uncomfortable with men gawking at you when you nipples show through.
> 
> I completely understand that discomfort.
> 
> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


I don't think of eyes as overtly sexual. I don't think many people in the Western world do. Nipples, however, do tend to be seen as overtly sexual in our culture.

As a woman, I'm uncomfortable with overtly sexual attention from men I don't know and/or don't have a sexual relationship with. So, it's fine if my partner ogles my visible nipples, but I'm not okay with the guys across the conference table at a project meeting doing so. Or the randoms on a construction site. Or the dude taking my order at Subway. I'm not looking for sexual attention from those men, but if my nipples are showing through my clothing, I'm going to get it. Which is why I try to make sure my nipples aren't showing through my clothing when I'm out in public.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
IMHO, nipples are sexy, so I will notice, but I will look away as soon as my brain catches up. 

Attire can be complicated. In general I like the idea that people can wear whatever they want, but in reality different sorts of dress are appropriate for different situations. If nipples are rarely displayed by convention, then having them be visible will be noticed and may not get the sort of attention you want in a professional setting. In casual situations I think its fine.


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## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


It was my favorite part of "Friends".


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## Fozzy

Cletus said:


> It was my favorite part of "Friends".


Jennifer Aniston gave an interview saying that those were fake. The producers made her wear "enhanced" bras to make sure there were always pokies.


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## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


It's god. He's a real nipple hater. Don't know why. 

This picture here tells the whole story. God has a loose fitting top, and he's pointing at Adam and saying "cover those up". 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36906&thumb=1


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## Anon Pink

Faithful Wife said:


> Anon, you win best thread title of the month.


LOL, thank you thank you thank you very much!



> Anon, do YOU feel compelled to look at nipples when they are poking out? If you don't feel that compulsion, I can see why it would be hard to understand it.


Good question! This made me think. I can't recall a time when I noticed nipple show through...other than my own! 



> I wish I could ignore it, (though I am able to avert my eyes, of course), but it is annoying to me that I feel I have no control over my desire to look. It is truly a visceral thing. It is nothing like noticing someone's sexy eyes, or a pregnant belly.


That's what I don't understand. We can control our eyes and pregnancy-sort of- but we can't control our nipples. So why do we feel compelled to hide that which we have no control over?
@happy as a clam said if men got erections out of their control (and a certain age group does experience this and feel embarrassed by it but that's more of a developmental age thing, I think) they would hide them.

When I was in high school (this is how uneducated I was at 14) I went to a school dance and while my date and I were standing in line for a soda, I noticed his pants were very oddly bulging and had no idea what they hell was causing his stomach to stick out below his belt. I asked another girl if she noticed that bulge and why did she think his stomach was sticking out. Maybe he had a really full bladder or something? She looked at me like I was an idiot, which I obviously was, and told me he had a boner. I was disgusted! OMG he was walking around the dance with a boner and he was MY date? GAAA-ROSS! And yet I had no problems with my nipples showing through.


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## FeministInPink

Anon Pink said:


> @FeministInPink and @thefam nipple show through creates attention from men of a sexual nature and that is uncomfortable.
> 
> But why? If you have a part of your body that gets sexual attention from men why does that make you uncomfortable?
> 
> TFam is pregnant so I know your swollen belly gets attention. Why is a swollen belly attention acceptable but nipple attention is not. They're both sexual in nature.


It's uncomfortable because not all sexual attention from men is wanted. There are a LOT of men from whom I do NOT want sexual attention.

If I'm with a partner, I am perfectly happy for the sexual attention.

But I don't want it from everyone else. I'm a person, not an object.


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## NextTimeAround

also think of a social situation of male female couples. If one of the women were dressed provocatively - either her nipples were on display / her clothing were so form fitting you could see the outline of her mon veneris / whatever, would that be something that you would not notice for the rest of the afternoon.


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## UMP

Anon Pink said:


> When I was in high school, late 70's, girls didn't wear bras all the time. "Burn the bras" was still fresh in our collective minds and we frequently went without. Also, the bras at the time were either super constructed (Mom bras we called them) or they were simple triangular pieces of material that sort of offered support and shaping but never hid nipple show through. Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.
> 
> But today, nipple show through is like a huge fashion faux pas. Bras are super duper constructed with wires and padding and shaping enough to make an A cup look like a C cup.
> 
> Granted, today's bras are much prettier than the bras we had to choose from back in high school but have we allowed Victoria's Construction to shape our acceptance of our bodies? In the process of constructing pretty bras that do wonderous things to our décolletage our nipples have become the unspeakable; never to be seen, hidden at all costs. Not even in a bathing suit should nipples show through.
> 
> What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


Speaking as a man, I think nipples are cool as hell.
Is it a fashion disaster? Well it depends on who is looking. If it's a guy, you could be on the cover of people magazine as "worse dressed" and we could give a shiit because all we will remember are those "nips".
Women would probably look at you in disgust, but do you really care what they think?

Bottom line, if you want to look sexy, showing a little nipple will always complete whatever outfit you have on. IMO.

I'm a lover of camel toe and panty lines, so take what I say with a grain of salt.:grin2:


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## Ikaika

I blame Janet Jackson


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## Anon Pink

So it seems the unwanted sexual attention due to nipple show through, thus making the woman feel very uncomfortable, leads the woman to hide any potential nipple show through.

I cannot wear a bra. It is very painful to have anything constrictive around my chest for more than an hour or so. It causes muscle spasms and sharp shooting pains, like I'm having a heart attack. 

My nipples show through all the damn time. I've learned to ignore any attention they garner. I feel like it's not my responsibility to control other people's reactions. I refuse to feel any sort of shame because my nipples are sticking out and men (and Faithful Wife) might notice. @Faithful Wife, that time we met for happy hour I think I wore a bra AND a top that was thick enough to hide nipple show through ...just for you my dear! 

I feel like if I'm dressed appropriately in all other aspects, the fact that my nipples are showing is not something I can control and therefor not something over which I should feel discomfort. Back in the 'Burn the Bra' days of feminism this would have been totally acceptable and even encouraged by other 'liberated' women. But not today.


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## Anon Pink

UMP said:


> Bottom line, if you want to look sexy, showing a little nipple will always complete whatever outfit you have on. IMO.
> 
> I'm a lover of camel toe and panty lines, so take what I say with a grain of salt.:grin2:


Behave you rascal! Wow, panty lines? Whoda thunk it?



Ikaika said:


> I blame Janet Jackson



Me too! No I blame Justin Timberlake!


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## thefam

@Anon Pink that sheds a whole new light. This is why judging is so detrimental. You never know. I've got to work on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty

For me, nipples are sexual. Perhaps if all females around me were topless, over time, I will become desensitize to them. Alas, when they appear, they are my focal point of attention. All high levels of brain function ceases and my I.Q. drops.

Although, I will try not to stare but will try covertly to examine them, you know, for signs of the weather. Feels a bit nippy today.


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## Ikaika

We have a prudish society. Admittedly my wife grew up very conservative culture (her mom originally from Okinawa and her father nisei - 2nd generation Japanese American). I on the other hand grew up far more sexually liberal.


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## Mr.Fisty

Damn, I can go for a creamy sundae with a nipple on top. I mean cherry. Lets all thank Anon for nipple on the brain. Thanks @Anon Pink.


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## FeministInPink

Anon Pink said:


> So it seems the unwanted sexual attention due to nipple show through, thus making the woman feel very uncomfortable, leads the woman to hide any potential nipple show through.
> 
> I cannot wear a bra. It is very painful to have anything constrictive around my chest for more than an hour or so. It causes muscle spasms and sharp shooting pains, like I'm having a heart attack.
> 
> My nipples show through all the damn time. I've learned to ignore any attention they garner. I feel like it's not my responsibility to control other people's reactions. I refuse to feel any sort of shame because my nipples are sticking out and men (and Faithful Wife) might notice. @Faithful Wife, that time we met for happy hour I think I wore a bra AND a top that was thick enough to hide nipple show through ...just for you my dear!
> 
> I feel like if I'm dressed appropriately in all other aspects, the fact that my nipples are showing is not something I can control and therefor not something over which I should feel discomfort. Back in the 'Burn the Bra' days of feminism this would have been totally acceptable and even encouraged by other 'liberated' women. But not today.


Don't get me wrong--I don't care if other women's nipples show, although it can come across as unprofessional. Although office buildings are kept FREEZING (due in large part to men's professional attire), so it would be hard to avoid.

But I'm aware of the attention I would draw, so I'm not going to be doing it.

Who knows, maybe it's yet another systemic way of policing women's bodies? If so, good for you on swimming upstream.


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## Elizabeth001

UMP said:


> I'm a lover of camel toe and panty lines]


Ew....just ew. That's a yeast infection waiting to happen.


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## Anon Pink

Mr.Fisty said:


> Damn, I can go for a creamy sundae with a nipple on top. I mean cherry. Lets all thank Anon for nipple on the brain. Thanks @Anon Pink.



You're welcome! >




FeministInPink said:


> Don't get me wrong--I don't care if other women's nipples show, although it can come across as unprofessional. Although office buildings are kept FREEZING (due in large part to men's professional attire), so it would be hard to avoid.
> 
> But I'm aware of the attention I would draw, so I'm not going to be doing it.
> 
> Who know, maybe it's yet another systemic way of policing women's bodies? If so, good for you on swimming upstream.


Back when I worked, I always wore a cardigan that obscured nipple show through...and was thankful for the freezing temperature that made wearing a cardigan in the summer a comfortable experience! And then the hot flashes began...sitting at my desk or in a meeting and unable to remove my cardigan yet sweat was dripping down my neck. 

And that's when it really bothered me that nipple show through was such a grievous sin that I had to tolerate being extremely uncomfortable due to circumstances completely out of my control. 

So I remembered how strong of a swimmer I was! :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

Thank you for your nipple coverage in my presence Anon. I am a pig and can't help myself.

Though I want to stress, it isn't a choice. I literally can't help it. If you don't feel that compulsion, I can guarantee you that you under estimate the power of it.


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## Lila

Anon Pink said:


> I feel like it's not my responsibility to control other people's reactions.


I don't have a response to your OP but did want to say that I completely agree with your comment above. I have found I'm happiest when I don't worry so much about the things I can't control. This includes other people's reactions to me. 

Tangent story but it pertains to this issue of controlling people's reactions. I love Lemon Drop Martinis with sugar on the glass rim and I have a particular way of drinking them....I usually take a small lick of the sugar off the rim before taking a sip of the drink, all one step. I don't think anything of it but apparently some think it's sexy. So last Saturday night H and I were enjoying a nice dinner when H leans over and whispers that I had instigated a heated argument with the couple sitting next to us. The lady's date had been staring at me drink my martini and she was none too happy about it. Should I have felt responsible for this man's reaction? I busted out laughing and continued to enjoy my dinner, my husband's wonderful company, AND my drink.


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## Anon Pink

@Lila,

Exactly!


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## Rowan

Anon Pink said:


> Back when I worked, I always wore a cardigan that obscured nipple show through...and was thankful for the freezing temperature that made wearing a cardigan in the summer a comfortable experience! And then the hot flashes began...sitting at my desk or in a meeting and unable to remove my cardigan yet sweat was dripping down my neck.


Umm, you know you can get "petals" that will obscure nipple show-through, right? They come in both reusable and disposable versions and are available from Amazon, Wal-Mart, and many department and drug stores. I use them from time to time when wearing clothing that's not bra-friendly because I can't stand visible bra straps or bands. Got to be better that trying to wear a cardigan in August!


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## convert

Rowan said:


> Umm, you know you can get "petals" that will obscure nipple show-through, right? They come in both reusable and disposable versions and are available from Amazon, Wal-Mart, and many department and drug stores. I use them from time to time when wearing clothing that's not bra-friendly because I can't stand visible bra straps or bands. Got to be better that trying to wear a cardigan in August!


bummer:crying:


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## always_alone

I only started wearing a bra at all because the boys at school teased me so mercilessly about having breasts. 

But truth is I absolutely hate most bras, with all the polyester and nylon fabric, underwires, padding and nonsense. Can't, won't, wear most of them. I do need one for support or it is uncomfortable for me, but only cotton, no wires or bones, will do.

I don't give a rat's a$$ about my nipples, and don't even notice if/when they show.


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## convert

Lila said:


> I don't have a response to your OP but did want to say that I completely agree with your comment above. I have found I'm happiest when I don't worry so much about the things I can't control. This includes other people's reactions to me.
> 
> Tangent story but it pertains to this issue of controlling people's reactions. I love Lemon Drop Martinis with sugar on the glass rim and I have a particular way of drinking them....I usually take a small lick of the sugar off the rim before taking a sip of the drink, all one step. I don't think anything of it but apparently some think it's sexy. So last Saturday night H and I were enjoying a nice dinner when H leans over and whispers that I had instigated a heated argument with the couple sitting next to us. *The lady's date had been staring at me drink my martini and she was none too happy about it. Should I have felt responsible for this man's reaction? * I busted out laughing and continued to enjoy my dinner, my husband's wonderful company, AND my drink.


Poor bastard, he should have taken his fork and stabbed himself in the leg to concentrate on his date:wink2:

now i can't get the picture of a women licking her glass rim out of my head>


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## Anon Pink

@Rowan
No I didn't. Last I looked they had petal thingies but they were single use sticky things that were stupidly expensive. I refused on principal!

Now I have to decide if I want to go with convention or keep swimming. I still feel like it's not my responsibility to ensure my nipples don't create a traffic accident. But there are times when I really wish they were hidden.

I'm so conflicted about this.


----------



## lucy999

I think if the woman is very fit and has small breasts and small nipples, it looks hot and beautiful.

That said, it could be Nipple Envy on my part. I would LOVE to get a boob lift. I've already had them reduced years ago.

Truth be told, I would love to be able to wear bandaids for a bra.


----------



## nirvana

It's demand and supply.
If boobs were on display all the time, then the demand would lessen as it would become common place. That is why I don't think it is sexy to walk around the house naked because undressing in bed is no longer special. It's like eating ice cream all the time for every meal.

It's much more sensual to see a woman with nice cleavage in a sexy bra than completely topless. Of course, unless the sequence of events have progressed to it. Man men fail to understand that sensuality in a woman does not always come with a state of undress.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

lucy999 said:


> I think if the woman is very fit and has small breasts and small nipples, it looks hot and beautiful.
> 
> That said, it could be Nipple Envy on my part. I would LOVE to get a boob lift. I've already had them reduced years ago.
> 
> Truth be told, I would love to be able to wear bandaids for a bra.



Oh man, that band-aid outline would look so hot! As a guy who likes wearing tight t-shirts, my nipples poke out a bit too!

I will try the band-aid idea.

@Anon Pink, let them stick out proud. If someone were to be attracted to feet, and you wore sandals,you are not responsible for what others find sexual. It is not like they are seeing the nipple in the flesh.

Btw, does anyone else pluck the hair around their nipple?


----------



## lucy999

Mr.Fisty said:


> Oh man, that band-aid outline would look so hot! As a guy who likes wearing tight t-shirts, my nipples poke out a bit too!
> 
> I will try the band-aid idea.
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> Btw, does anyone else pluck the hair around their nipple?


Yeowwwch! I'm happy to report I have no nipple hair. I wonder if I ever did? I wonder if it's due to my breast reduction? What with the removal of the nipples and then reattaching them. 

Do you pluck your nip hairs, Mr. Fisty? OHmygosh that sounds very painful. Makes my eyes water just reading about it.

ETA: Mr. Fisty, I bet you braid yours. Complete with Bo Derek beads. Clacka clacka!


----------



## Lila

Mr.Fisty said:


> Btw, does anyone else pluck the hair around their nipple?


Hahaha! I pluck my husband's nipple hair. It only grows around ONE nipple. Looks very asymmetrical. Bothers me enough that he lets me do it. Gosh, I love that man :smile2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

lucy999 said:


> I think if the woman is very fit and has small breasts and small nipples, it looks hot and beautiful.
> 
> That said, it could be Nipple Envy on my part. I would LOVE to get a boob lift. I've already had them reduced years ago.
> 
> Truth be told, I would love to be able to wear bandaids for a bra.


When I was about 14 and busting out some boobs, I had a white swim suit that would get a little bit see through when wet. So I put band aids on my nips. Worked perfectly! I was boy crazy and wanted attention from boys, but not that kind of attention. Usually if boys noticed your nips (at that age) they would outright mock you and cruelly tease you about it. Thus, band aids.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ew.


----------



## Married but Happy

Rowan said:


> Umm, you know you can get "petals" that will obscure nipple show-through, right?


This is another example of how our freedoms and liberty are being slowly eroded day by day ...


----------



## happy as a clam

This thread is cracking me up!

Here's a nipple story (really a breast story, but this thread seems to be the only one I can share it...)

When my son was 3 months and I was still nursing, I used to bounce around at home braless because it was pointless to even put one on with all the nursing. One day, I made a quick run to the grocery store with him -- I only needed one item, ground beef.

As luck would have it, just as we're getting back to the meat counter, he starts to cry, I feel that "nipple tingle" just before the milk lets down.

I got to the counter, the butcher turns around to wait on me, and the look on his face was beyond words. I look down at my red t-shirt to see two dark, dinner plate sized circles under each breast!!  (So much for that bright idea -- "I'll just run in and grab one thing!")

:rofl:


----------



## Lionelhutz

Mr.Fisty said:


> For me, nipples are sexual. Perhaps if all females around me were topless, over time, I will become desensitize to them.




That is the whole thing. If we lived in a world of nudity, those who wanted attention would start wearing clothes. Ornamentation would become highly sexualized and probably regulated to avoid offending the more conservative. 


Social norms can and have changed so there is no real answer to the question of whether the nipple per se is taboo or needs to be taboo. Mostly I find it funny how the human body can elicit such strong feelings as if the several billion copies of it all around us were a national secret.


----------



## Phil Anders

Maybe the apparent disconnect here is between standards of dress, in which the acceptable range includes very sexualized outfits, and the paradoxical reluctance to let something like a nipple show through what may already be a very intentionally revealing display.

My guess is that it's become socially OK to broadcast "I'm hot; I know it, and I know you're looking at me in a sexual way, and I welcome the validation." What may not be OK is the suggestion of reciprocity: The clothes say "I'm generally desirable" but the high-beams say (or seem to say) "I'm aroused right now." That's a message even women who are flaunting it may want to reserve for specific targets.


----------



## nirvana

Muslims have their women cover their hair because hair to them is sexual. I guess Muslim men get hornee when they see a woman's hair. Long hair turns me on, but it is different from nips but maybe not, who knows.


----------



## lucy999

Lila said:


> Hahaha! I pluck my husband's nipple hair. It only grows around ONE nipple. Looks very asymmetrical. Bothers me enough that he lets me do it. Gosh, I love that man :smile2:


And I love him too for indulging your OCD! What a sweetheart. I have issues with asymmetrical stuff, too. My BF is so patient with me and my OCD (self diagnosed but trust me, it is). Love me, love my OCD.:grin2:


----------



## NextTimeAround

nirvana said:


> Muslims have their women cover their hair because hair to them is sexual. I guess Muslim men get hornee when they see a woman's hair. Long hair turns me on, but it is different from nips but maybe not, who knows.


Certain sects of Jews require their women to shave their heads after they are married. And when they go out in public, they wear wigs. One of my teachers was Jewish and she said the practice was due to the fact that women didn't need to continue looking attractive once they are married.


----------



## kokonatsu

Bodies are not always sexual. 

That is one lesson I learned while living in Japan. I had always been shy and uncomfortable with my body, partly insecurity and partly because of my views of sexuality (I grew up in a pretty conservative/traditional Christian community). 

I haven't worn a bra in years now and I don't think I ever will again! Sometimes I wear a bandeau, if my shirt doesn't cover everything up. 

One of my friends commented "but your nipples will show!" And I replied, "so?" I don't get what's the big deal with a bit of nip. 

Free the Girls!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cletus

You should know that this isn't just a female issue, ladies. I'm one of those guys with prominent (and sensitive!) nipples who worries sometimes that everyone is just staring at his b*tch t*ts. I even went to far as to try wearing a cotton undershirt when I have a light polo on for no other reason, but it was just too damned hot.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Totally true Cletus, and I can't not stare at prominent man nipples either. I never miss a nip, anywhere, ever. 

Can't help it. I'm challenged in that way. Just a pig, I guess.


----------



## Cletus

Faithful Wife said:


> Totally true Cletus, and I can't not stare at prominent man nipples either. I never miss a nip, anywhere, ever.
> 
> Can't help it. I'm challenged in that way. Just a pig, I guess.


I can live in your pig sty if you can live in mine.


----------



## weightlifter

happy as a clam said:


> I don't really give a rat's a$$ about my nipples showing!
> 
> But apparently, men DO, and I end up being gawked at.
> 
> I'm at the gym to workout. Not to cause a sideshow.
> 
> Just wish they would go into hiding when I want them to... :surprise:


Its genetic. Gawkers need to up their technique.


----------



## NotEasy

If the price of petals are too high, my mother said they used to make their own, out of pieces of sticky tape. And yes, they were a pain to remove. 

And while the 70s might have burnt bra, it didn't invent bra-less. She told me her mother's test was that if the breast sagged enough to hold a pencil underneath then you needed a bra. Can't get that image out of my mind.


----------



## larry.gray

Faithful Wife said:


> I wish I could ignore it, (though I am able to avert my eyes, of course), but it is annoying to me that I feel I have no control over my desire to look. It is truly a visceral thing. It is nothing like noticing someone's sexy eyes, or a pregnant belly.


Damn, you get it. 

I'm a respectful guy. I know women are made uncomfortable by gawking. Especially given that I am a big dude. People tell me I'm intimidating even though I don't seek it. So I avoid staring / leering.

But there are some things that make me want to look BAD. I'm checking my impulse and don't act on it, but it is ever present in my mind.

Just hard nips are that way a little for me but not too bad to ignore. Now something so tight that the skeen's glands and / or puffy aureola are noticeable? Very distracting. 

Ditto with camel toe. Yeah, I'll notice toe if it's there. But if she's wearing something so revealing that you can tell she's got pronounced protruding labia minora? DIFFICULT not to stare.


----------



## larry.gray

Mr.Fisty said:


> For me, nipples are sexual. Perhaps if all females around me were topless, over time, I will become desensitize to them. Alas, when they appear, they are my focal point of attention. All high levels of brain function ceases and my I.Q. drops.
> 
> Although, I will try not to stare but will try covertly to examine them, you know, for signs of the weather. Feels a bit nippy today.


So how do you react to nursing mothers? I just had one last week who whipped it out and left her boob hanging for all to see as she picked up the baby. 

It doesn't bug me, and it also doesn't seem particularly arousing.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

larry.gray said:


> So how do you react to nursing mothers? I just had one last week who whipped it out and left her boob hanging for all to see as she picked up the baby.
> 
> It doesn't bug me, and it also doesn't seem particularly arousing.



I have a kink where I am attracted to milfs. It started with my best friend's mother when I was a teen. She is hot, a yoga instructor, vegan, and has such a perky personality. Even though she is 45, she looks in her mid-thirties.

The act of the nursing child is not the turn on, but seeing milk would be. I have a fantasy of trying breast milk. Seeing females in a nursing bra is sexy and seeing those wet spots when they lactate is as well.


----------



## Anon Pink

Phil Anders said:


> Maybe the apparent disconnect here is between standards of dress, in which the acceptable range includes very sexualized outfits, and the paradoxical reluctance to let something like a nipple show through what may already be a very intentionally revealing display.
> 
> My guess is that it's become socially OK to broadcast "I'm hot; I know it, and I know you're looking at me in a sexual way, and I welcome the validation." What may not be OK is the suggestion of reciprocity: The clothes say "I'm generally desirable" *but the high-beams say (or seem to say) "I'm aroused right now."* That's a message even women who are flaunting it may want to reserve for specific targets.


bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused? No. High beams say, I'm friggin cold! And lemme tell ya, cold nipples are painful!


----------



## Anon Pink

nirvana said:


> Muslims have their women cover their hair because hair to them is sexual. I guess Muslim men get hornee when they see a woman's hair. Long hair turns me on, but it is different from nips but maybe not, who knows.


LOL I think that is so funny. Makes me picture Muslim boys googling pics of shampoo commercials for masturbatory titilation.


----------



## Anon Pink

Cletus said:


> You should know that this isn't just a female issue, ladies. I'm one of those guys with prominent (and sensitive!) nipples who worries sometimes that everyone is just staring at his b*tch t*ts. I even went to far as to try wearing a cotton undershirt when I have a light polo on for no other reason, but it was just too damned hot.


I feel your pain Cletus. You know they make petals for that....


----------



## Anon Pink

NotEasy said:


> If the price of petals are too high, my mother said they used to make their own, out of pieces of sticky tape. And yes, they were a pain to remove.
> 
> And while the 70s might have burnt bra, it didn't invent bra-less. She told me her mother's test was that if the breast sagged enough to hold a pencil underneath then you needed a bra. Can't get that image out of my mind.


Tried tape shortly after the surgery. No go. You could see the edges and getting the tape off....stuck to your nipple... Never again.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I think I posted about this on another boob thread once but...

So I tried these petals once. 

http://www.amazon.com/Undercover-Silicone-Nipple-Covers-Pasties/dp/B00428ZHRC/ref=zg_bs_2364769011_2

They seemed so perfect. You can reuse them. They do not stick via tape. They are silicone. They would take care of both the color of the nips showing through clothes and would smash down the nips so no high beams. They are thick enough to do the job. Finally I could go braless right?

Um, no. The problem is that they are so thick in the middle, fading down to paper thin at the edges, that the effect is they look like a little boob sitting on top of your boob when under a shirt. The only way I could imagine these would work would be on a boob that is fairly small and is the exact right shape to match the angle of the petal "grade" from thin to thick. Basically, like the boobs on the model who is wearing them in the picture.

For any other size or shaped boob, no bueno.


----------



## PieceOfSky

Anon Pink said:


> bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused?


Projection? (I mean on the part of the men, not the... well...)

I suspect most men don't really think that in daily public life going about ones business it implies arousal. Inexperienced ones might wonder, until someone clears it up, like, say, an intimate partner or someone on the internet. 

As an adolescent, I can recall fascination and intense curiosity with the female body, but accurate and complete sources of information were hard to find. Word on the street was that erect nipples correlated with arousal. Most of us, not being good at math and in particular statistics (especially when pondering the mysteries of the female body and soul) ended up confusing causation with correlation; humans often do that, don't we? Many of the rest of us, being good at math, would have to wait years before an intimate partner would reveal the rest of the truth, or for the internet to take hold.

Even once the full truth us understood, I'd guess that it is no different than many things we understand rationally -- our emotional brains can't fully take the full truth into account the moment it is first learned. It takes awhile to integrate, rewire.


Btw, I wonder if evolution has made mammalian vision very adept at noticing the presence of female areola/nipple, because newborn and infant life until recently has depended on it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

PieceOfSky said:


> Btw, I wonder if evolution has made mammalian vision very adept at noticing the presence of female areola/nipple, because newborn and infant life until recently has depended on it.


I've wondered this too...like maybe the fact that I can't help but notice has more to do with infancy and nursing than anything...but then why does it give me a girl boner? It is a specifically sexual zing I get from seeing boobs/nips. It is definitely a physical/sexual/arousal reaction. I don't see how it could "just" be an infantile urge for food. Comfort and bonding and other things that happen during nursing, none of that is stirred up for me at all. Just the zing.

Confusing.


----------



## NotEasy

Anon Pink said:


> bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused? No. High beams say, I'm friggin cold! And lemme tell ya, cold nipples are painful!


Ooo, Ooo, Ooo, I know this one Miss, pick me, pick me...

(now lets see if I can answer this without being sent to the headmaster for using a rude word)

See Miss, it's like this, there is a part of a man that gets larger and harder when we are aroused. We think if a part of a woman gets larger and harder they must be aroused.
And no Miss, it can't be the cold, haven't you seen what cold does to that part of a man.


And of course, the logical part of my brain knows better. But the teenage lizard brain over-rides logic and goes into stare mode before logic tells me to look away.


----------



## weightlifter

Anon Pink said:


> LOL I think that is so funny. Makes me picture Muslim boys googling pics of shampoo commercials for masturbatory titilation.


LOL. Dont get that 5th strike Anon. We need ya!

Imagine them watching that old Herbal Essence orgasm commercial!


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused? No. High beams say, I'm friggin cold! And lemme tell ya, cold nipples are painful!


Perhaps you've never noticed or never experienced what happens to the nipples of a lot of women when they're just about to orgasm? And I know it isn't from the cold then.


----------



## Married but Happy

Anon Pink said:


> bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused? No. High beams say, I'm friggin cold! And lemme tell ya, *cold nipples are painful*!


Which is why I always generously and thoughtfully offer to warm up my wife's nipples when they're cold.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Married but Happy said:


> Which is why I always generously and thoughtfully offer to warm up my wife's nipples when they're cold.



I hope she returns the favor. Is that two pebbles beneath your shirt or is it cold outside Married but Happy?


----------



## Married but Happy

She returns lots of favors, and more - I'm often in her debt. LOL


----------



## nirvana

Bugged said:


> :surprise:


during sex I sucked her breast one time when she was in feeding stage and got some milk.. didn't really like that...


----------



## nirvana

Anon Pink said:


> LOL I think that is so funny. Makes me picture Muslim boys googling pics of shampoo commercials for masturbatory titilation.


For all the holier than thou behavior they display, Google shows that Muslim countries top in pr0n searches and also weird kinky stuff like doing camels, sheep etc.


----------



## nirvana

I once watched a movie with Sean Penn and Naomi Watts. Naomi has the most amazing nips, and she seemed aroused during the sex scene as he was kissing all over and sucking it. I sometimes wonder if they go through other involuntary body actions like erections, vag getting wet etc while performing these scenes. Her nips were amazingly hot and large in that.


----------



## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> I feel like it's not my responsibility to control other people's reactions.


^ This. 

Over time, I've come to just do my own thing and not worry so much about other peoples' opinions. I get plenty of stares from people for various reasons, both good and bad, and don't notice it that much anymore. People stare at my scars, at me breastfeeding, at my breasts, and so on. That's their issue, not mine. I do what I am comfortable with and I do act respectful, but I'm not going to worry about trying to make everyone happy. When people do that, they will always fail.


----------



## Fozzy




----------



## Cletus

Fozzy said:


>


Ok, that's SOOOOO hot.


----------



## Phil Anders

Anon Pink said:


> bolded part: why do men think high beams mean aroused? No. High beams say, I'm friggin cold! And lemme tell ya, cold nipples are painful!


That's why I included the parenthetical "seem to say". I know it isn't always an indicator of arousal, but sometimes it definitely is, and of course you can't control how men may interpret it. Which is why I wonder if our collective fashion sense isn't unconsciously guarding against sending this kind of ambiguous "message".

Men get spontaneous erections that aren't due to arousal, but they almost never mean "I'm cold"! :grin2:


----------



## WandaJ

Anon Pink said:


> Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.


Maybe because today we would accuse those boys of sexual harrasment and treating us as piece of meat? So, now we need to keep our end of the agreement. 

That's semi-serious answer. We also live in more puritanical world today. Do you remember the short men used to wear back then? Today only gay men would dare.


----------



## Anon Pink

PieceOfSky said:


> Projection? (I mean on the part of the men, not the... well...)
> 
> *Most of us, not being good at math and in particular statistics (especially when pondering the mysteries of the female body and soul) ended up confusing causation with correlation; humans often do that, don't we? Many of the rest of us, being good at math, would have to wait years before an intimate partner would reveal the rest of the truth, or for the internet to take hold.*
> 
> .


Piece of Sky. You are the king of the elegant and witty observation!

Poor little math nerds...


----------



## WandaJ

Anon Pink said:


> When I was in high school, late 70's, girls didn't wear bras all the time. "Burn the bras" was still fresh in our collective minds and we frequently went without. Also, the bras at the time were either super constructed (Mom bras we called them) or they were simple triangular pieces of material that sort of offered support and shaping but never hid nipple show through. Nipple show through was normal for us. Boys would joke about high beams and the girls would roll their eyes and tell them to grow up.
> 
> But today, nipple show through is like a huge fashion faux pas. Bras are super duper constructed with wires and padding and shaping enough to make an A cup look like a C cup.
> 
> Granted, today's bras are much prettier than the bras we had to choose from back in high school but have we allowed Victoria's Construction to shape our acceptance of our bodies? In the process of constructing pretty bras that do wonderous things to our décolletage our nipples have become the unspeakable; never to be seen, hidden at all costs. Not even in a bathing suit should nipples show through.
> 
> What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


AP, do you have trouble keeping your eyes off men's genitals if they are wearing nice lycra pants, or speedo?

If yes, why?


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> Piece of Sky. You are the king of the elegant and witty observation!
> 
> Poor little math nerds...


Who you callin' little, darling?


----------



## nirvana

WandaJ said:


> AP, do you have trouble keeping your eyes off men's genitals if they are wearing nice lycra pants, or speedo?
> 
> If yes, why?


bewbs are beautiful.
dix are not.


----------



## Anon Pink

@Faithful Wife, thanks for the tip... Ha, I made a pun!
@NotEasy, it seems several of the men have backed up your assertion that the belief is grounded in denial and wishful thinking. Who I am to burst your bubble?
@weightlifter, thanks bud, warning taken.
@Cletus, I can't say that I've noticed what my nipples are doing just prior to orgasm. I know what my husbands nipple due just after my orgasm, they take a bow Elvis style.
@Married but Happy, you're a thoughtful husband!
@nirvana, I had heard that before. That's why I always suspect any religious zealot. Closet pervs, all of them!
@Anonymous07, exactly. That's the attitude I shoot for and usually am able to maintain. It has taken me a long time to be able to mostly attain this so I'm very glad you've been successful at a much younger age.
@Fozzy, :rolf: stop teasing Faithful Wife with all those nipples!
@Phil Anders, you said "isn't always a sign of arousal." But erect nipples are "rarely a sign of arousal" compared to how frequently they become erect through out the day. Nipples are highly reactive, so much so that many times we don't even notice it. 
@WandaJ totally we should bring back the shorter shorts for men! Men have great legs! I love men's legs but I absolutely HATE those stupid long shorts that come below their knees! They look so ridiculous in them. I spent my time at the beach looking for men wearing shorter shorts. They're coming back you know. Lands End is selling them! Bought my H all new shorts this summer.


----------



## southbound

Some have mentioned that guys need to grow up. I admit that a mature adult needs to act appropriately in public and not like a knot head, but I've noticed that people's comments in various places, not just here, seem to indicate that it is weird for female skin and body parts to get men's attention.

I can't remember the name, but I read a yoga instructor's comments about how some criticised her because she dressed so skimpy. She said she felt that telling a woman to cover her body because it might offend or sexually stimulate someone was a thing of a bygone era and not modern times.

Some even say that women should go topless in public just like men and act as though it shouldn't be a big deal to men.

Ok, when did female nudity cease to be an element of attraction to men? Apparently, I missed when that was announced. What are the new visual attractors?


----------



## Anon Pink

WandaJ said:


> AP, do you have trouble keeping your eyes off men's genitals if they are wearing nice lycra pants, or speedo?
> 
> If yes, why?


Back in the day, no never bothered me. I was a diver in high school and the boys on the team wore speedos. 

Now however, it's so unusual I look. Very carefully I look. 

View attachment 36969


----------



## Anon Pink

Cletus said:


> Who you callin' little, darling?


Aw come on, didn't the math nerds develop their intellect first and THEN they developed their physique?




nirvana said:


> bewbs are beautiful.
> dix are not.


I beg to differ. I think an erection is quite beautiful!


----------



## Anon Pink

southbound said:


> Some have mentioned that guys need to grow up. I admit that a mature adult needs to act appropriately in public and not like a knot head, but I've noticed that people's comments in various places, not just here, seem to indicate that it is weird for female skin and body parts to get men's attention.
> 
> I can't remember the name, but I read a yoga instructor's comments about how some criticised her because she dressed so skimpy. She said she felt that telling a woman to cover her body because it might offend or sexually stimulate someone was a thing of a bygone era and not modern times.
> 
> *Some even say that women should go topless in public just like men and act as though it shouldn't be a big deal to men.*
> 
> Ok, when did female nudity cease to be an element of attraction to men? Apparently, I missed when that was announced. What are the new visual attractors?


I completely agree with the bolded part.

I've gone topless on beaches, it's fantastic. I am generally topless or completely nude in our pool and I love it. Thankfully my husband is the only male in our home and he completely accepts my nudity without any sort of reaction that our daughters might pick up on. I think it's taught them to expect men to at least comport themselves like gentlemen. I'd like to think if I had sons I'd be just as comfortable teaching them that female nudity is not always a sexual atmosphere. 

Think of the indigenous tribes in the Amazon. Those men manage to conduct themselves normally while all the women remain topless and yet sex seems to follow a pair bond pattern.


----------



## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> I completely agree with the bolded part.
> 
> I've gone topless on beaches, it's fantastic. I am generally topless or completely nude in our pool and I love it. Thankfully my husband is the only male in our home and he completely accepts my nudity without any sort of reaction that our daughters might pick up on. I think it's taught them to expect men to at least comport themselves like gentlemen. I'd like to think if I had sons I'd be just as comfortable teaching them that female nudity is not always a sexual atmosphere.
> 
> Think of the indigenous tribes in the Amazon. Those men manage to conduct themselves normally while all the women remain topless and yet sex seems to follow a pair bond pattern.


I like walking around nude at home. My husband doesn't mind and doesn't do anything, unless we're alone. We have a 2 year old son, so he's a little young to know anything, but nudity isn't a big deal here. 

Your bottom paragraph reminds me of an image a lot of breastfeeding mothers' use online. It is usually accompanied with a quote of "I dare you to ask her to cover up". It's completely normal to not be covered and be naked or partially naked. It's just not a big deal.


----------



## Fozzy

Is she holding a knife while breastfeeding a dwarf with male pattern baldness? What movie is this from?


----------



## FeministInPink

nirvana said:


> bewbs are beautiful.
> dix are not.


Oh, I beg to differ. I've seen some that were quite beautiful when at full attention.


----------



## anonmd

8 pages in a day and a half, wow 

I love nipples and boobs and lot's of other features of the female body. A visible nipple bump is not a fashion failure to me. Why do you women do this to yourselves? I don't think the men are defining fashion failures...


----------



## nirvana

Anon Pink said:


> Aw come on, didn't the math nerds develop their intellect first and THEN they developed their physique?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I beg to differ. I think an erection is quite beautiful!


OK! 

I am not a gal, so I wouldn't know


----------



## nirvana

I read some posts asking men to "grow up". Why should men "grow up"? Men are programmed to be attracted to the female form for millions of years. It is natural and just happens. This cannot be stopped. Certain physical features are stimulating. 

I see women walking around showing a lot of cleavage. They obviously love the attention and get a kick and ego boost out of men making sly peeks. Nothing wrong in that, it's all fun and a confidence booster. The same women would be highly annoyed if they dressed up and no one cared.

Men are men. Just accept us we are!


----------



## Elizabeth001

nirvana said:


> I read some posts asking men to "grow up". Why should men "grow up"? Men are programmed to be attracted to the female form for millions of years. It is natural and just happens. This cannot be stopped. Certain physical features are stimulating.
> 
> I see women walking around showing a lot of cleavage. They obviously love the attention and get a kick and ego boost out of men making sly peeks. Nothing wrong in that, it's all fun and a confidence booster. The same women would be highly annoyed if they dressed up and no one cared.
> 
> Men are men. Just accept us we are!


Ah dammit....how do you "like" from mobile? Better yet..."LOVE"


----------



## NotEasy

Anon Pink said:


> Tried tape shortly after the surgery. No go. You could see the edges and getting the tape off....stuck to your nipple... Never again.


My mother mentioned vaseline on the nipples first, but the tape still stuck to the rest of the breast and was painful to remove.


----------



## NotEasy

WandaJ said:


> Maybe because today we would accuse those boys of sexual harrasment and treating us as piece of meat? So, now we need to keep our end of the agreement.
> 
> That's semi-serious answer. We also live in more puritanical world today. Do you remember the short men used to wear back then? Today only gay men would dare.


Yes it is puritanical, but in a weird way. Cleavage, see thru tops over black bras and mini-skirts are OK. But nipple show through is not.

But I'm not complaining, cleavage, see thru tops and mini-skirts look fine.


----------



## ocotillo

Anon Pink said:


> Granted, today's bras are much prettier than the bras we had to choose from back in high school but have we allowed Victoria's Construction to shape our acceptance of our bodies? In the process of constructing pretty bras that do wonderous things to our décolletage our nipples have become the unspeakable; never to be seen, hidden at all costs. Not even in a bathing suit should nipples show through.


What a great thread title..

I remember as a child in the 50's and 60's thinking that boobs were pointed (Because bras were) and what a pleasant surprise it was when I finally got to see the real thing and realized that they were not. 

More to the point of your thread though, I honestly don't know what the big deal is. Maybe it's because boobs are the best thing since sliced bread and an awful lot of men don't have the manners to be discrete?


----------



## Anon Pink

NotEasy said:


> My mother mentioned vaseline on the nipples first, but the tape still stuck to the rest of the breast and was painful to remove.


All that to hide the unspeakable nipple?

Reminds me of women's fashions from a hundred years ago when our bodies were corseted, molded, wired, padded....hey, maybe we haven't come such a long way baby?

Sigh.


----------



## Anon Pink

ocotillo said:


> What a great thread title..
> 
> I remember as a child in the 50's and 60's thinking that boobs were pointed (Because bras were) and what a pleasant surprise it was when I finally got to see the real thing and realized that they were not.
> 
> More to the point of your thread though, I honestly don't know what the big deal is. *Maybe it's because boobs are the best thing since sliced bread and an awful lot of men don't have the manners to be discrete?*



And there you have it folks.

Thank you and good night.


----------



## ocotillo

Anon Pink said:


> And there you have it folks.
> 
> Thank you and good night.


All humor aside, do you disagree? 

My wife has complained almost her entire adult life about men talking to her chest instead of her face.


----------



## WandaJ

ocotillo said:


> All humor aside, do you disagree?
> 
> My wife has complained almost her entire adult life about men talking to her chest instead of her face.[/QUOTE
> 
> This is exactly it. First we complain that men stare at our boobs, and then we complain that we cannot show our nipples. You show, people stare, that's it.


----------



## NotEasy

Anon Pink said:


> All that to hide the unspeakable nipple?
> 
> Reminds me of women's fashions from a hundred years ago when our bodies were corseted, molded, wired, padded....hey, maybe we haven't come such a long way baby?
> 
> Sigh.


I think my mother's reasoning was that bras then were all wires, pads, poor fitting and uncomfortable, so any other option was considered. Hence my grandmothers 'pencil' rule about how long you could delay wearing a bra.

The conversation seems like a hundred years ago, but only yesterday. It was sort of the first time I realised my mother went bra-less and I also discovered my grandmother did too.:surprise:


----------



## Anon Pink

ocotillo said:


> All humor aside, do you disagree?
> 
> My wife has complained almost her entire adult life about men talking to her chest instead of her face.


No I don't disagree at all! Breasts are beautiful! But men need to practice restraint, or at least get a pair of aviator glasses! 

IDK, maybe men just really suck at restraint in general? I mean how often do you see women scratching their crotches in public? Or maybe women are just better at masking our gawking. We can perhaps make it look like we're appraising the stitching when we're appraising something else entirely? However, men seem to think women are checking them out a lot more often than it actually is happening, IMO.

So..glad we cleared that up.


----------



## Anon Pink

WandaJ said:


> This is exactly it. First we complain that men stare at our boobs, and then we complain that we cannot show our nipples. You show, people stare, that's it.


Again I am not sure this is accurate either. Granted a woman in her 50's is more adept at fielding gawking not to mention a woman in her 50's has a narrower....audience. But my two youngest daughter's have never complained about boys or men staring inappropriately. My middle daughter is 25 and she dresses to impress when she's not studying or running, or bicycling or lifting...


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## Anon Pink

Personal said:


> My wife who is a math nerd, showed me her perky breasts and erect nipples this morning just before she left to go out with one of her friends.



LOL, you poor little math nerd.


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## Mr.Fisty

Equal rights for nipples! Please Anon Pink protest it on the streets. We all can have a nip slip as our greeting!


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## Ikaika

Anon Pink said:


> However, men seem to think women are checking them out a lot more often than it actually is happening, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> So..glad we cleared that up.



I'm not delusional. I think any woman who is checking me out needs to make an optometry appointment.


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## Anon Pink

@Mr.Fisty, we've just got past the GOP debacle ...I mean debate. There is MUCH to protest but high on that list is protesting laws restricting health care to low income woman. Rest assured, I will NOT be wearing a bra, or tape, or silicone petals during those protests. I have a white tee shirt that I got from Lady Parts Justice, on the back it says, Keeping Politicians out of our Vaginas since 2012! I wear it when ever I can out in public without a bra and when people clearly glance at my chest, I pull the shirt tight so they can see what's written on it. Then turn my back so they can see that. Every time I go out, women come running up to me to praise the shirt, tell me they agree, and ask where they can get one.

RETAIL - ladypartsjustice.com Scroll all the way down the page for my favorite item "come for the cause" 

@Personal, I love the way you talk about your wife! You and @Holland always have the loveliest things to say about your respective spouses. Warms the heart it does!


----------



## Anon Pink

Ikaika said:


> I'm not delusional. I think any woman who is checking me out needs to make an optometry appointment.


Knock it off man! I've seen your pic, you're a good looking dude!



ETA: Omg auto correct just butchered such a simple little sentence!


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## Ikaika

Anon Pink said:


> Knock it of for man! Be seen your pic, you're a good looking dude!



I will be 55 this year... I'm a realist. But thank you.


----------



## thumbper

Great thread, difficult scenario for women who want to be comfortable and natural in their dress attire but not considered to be "on the menu" at all times. Of course, errect nipples typically do NOT signal arousal; however, when my lovely wife's are errect from arousal, they are very powerful and magical. When the mood and moment are right, poking, proding and pinching can produce one he11 of a nipple orgasm.


----------



## Anon Pink

thumbper said:


> Great thread, difficult scenario for women who want to be comfortable and natural in their dress attire but not considered to be "on the menu" at all times. Of course, errect nipples typically do NOT signal arousal; however, when my lovely wife's are errect from arousal, they are very powerful and magical. When the mood and moment are right, poking, proding and pinching can produce one he11 of a nipple orgasm.



Clearly you are one lucky bastard to have such an amazing wife! :grin2:


----------



## always_alone

ocotillo said:


> My wife has complained almost her entire adult life about men talking to her chest instead of her face.


I can relate! When I was younger, I used to alter my dress habits to get away from this sort of crap. For example, I stopped wearing t-shirts with any kind of logo, writing, or picture on them because random guys kept using this as an excuse to grope me. 

But now that I am older and fewer people (if any) care, and I have a force field and strong filters, I really haven't got a nanosecond of attention for guys like that. If you can't talk to me as a person, well you can't talk to me. Simple.


----------



## nirvana

ocotillo said:


> All humor aside, do you disagree?
> 
> My wife has complained almost her entire adult life about men talking to her chest instead of her face.


Well, women would always have something to complain about. First they show cleavage knowing that men would stare/look. Then if you look, they get angry. Then if you DON'T look, they get annoyed as well.

Men cannot win!


----------



## sapientia

Anon Pink said:


> You want your nipples to disappear? You think nipple show through is unattractive? Why?


I haven't read the entire thread but in my case it's simply one of aesthetics. If I'm wearing a designer $$$ white top, I wear a camisole underneath so it doesn't disrupt the visual line, if you will. It's a smooth, sleeker look. If I wanted a top with grey/brown targets on my chest, I would have bought that instead. A more patterned top doesn't have this problem.


----------



## southbound

nirvana said:


> I read some posts asking men to "grow up". Why should men "grow up"? Men are programmed to be attracted to the female form for millions of years. It is natural and just happens. This cannot be stopped. Certain physical features are stimulating. !


That's what I thought. Don't get me wrong, I think mature men should act as such, but I didn't realize the female body wasn't supposed to be an attention getter for men, but it seems like people like to use that as an argument now when it fits a point they are trying to make.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Southbound....but some of us aren't actually complaining. We are just talking about our own modesty. I mean, as I have said here, I totally get why men look and can't help it, as I can't help it, either. So if I'm going out of my way to hide my nips, this is not because I think men are creepy and can't control themselves or anything like that. I just know they can't help but looking so if I am in a mode of operation where I do not want to be looked at like that (which still does not mean it is "wrong" to look at me or any woman), I take measures to make sure I'm not popping out of a shirt.

I love my body and I love women's bodies in general. Yes it is clear that nature/God designed us to notice each other and be inexplicably physically drawn to each other via visual cues. I love that fact, as it is a primal part of all of us and it feels really good (to me) to feel so animalistic that my body can draw my husband to me in that lusty way. 

However, I don't always want to draw just any guy toward me that way, and that's ok, too. It doesn't mean I judge that random guy at all for the fact that he has that type of lusty visual triggers that I love in all of us.


----------



## larry.gray

I don't know why but I can't stop staring at this thread.


----------



## southbound

Faithful Wife said:


> Southbound....but some of us aren't actually complaining. We are just talking about our own modesty. I mean, as I have said here, I totally get why men look and can't help it, as I can't help it, either. So if I'm going out of my way to hide my nips, this is not because I think men are creepy and can't control themselves or anything like that. I just know they can't help but looking so if I am in a mode of operation where I do not want to be looked at like that (which still does not mean it is "wrong" to look at me or any woman), I take measures to make sure I'm not popping out of a shirt.
> 
> I love my body and I love women's bodies in general. Yes it is clear that nature/God designed us to notice each other and be inexplicably physically drawn to each other via visual cues. I love that fact, as it is a primal part of all of us and it feels really good (to me) to feel so animalistic that my body can draw my husband to me in that lusty way.
> 
> However, I don't always want to draw just any guy toward me that way, and that's ok, too. It doesn't mean I judge that random guy at all for the fact that he has that type of lusty visual triggers that I love in all of us.


Great post. It sounds like you fully understand, and I apologize that I came across as thinking all women felt that way. It does seem like the new argument among some is that people should be able to go half naked and nobody should notice, and I just had that on my mind.


----------



## always_alone

southbound said:


> Great post. It sounds like you fully understand, and I apologize that I came across as thinking all women felt that way. It does seem like the new argument among some is that people should be able to go half naked and nobody should notice, and I just had that on my mind.


It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers. 

This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business. 

But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."

And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.


----------



## southbound

always_alone said:


> It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.
> 
> This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business.
> 
> But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."
> 
> And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.


I don't think it's unreasonable for you to complain if guys are freely groping you every time you leave the house and always having to worry about feeling like public property; I guess that is miserable. I don't know where you live, but it's not quite that way around here; however, men do seem to still be attracted to the female body where i live.

I suppose people could become more accustomed to anything with more exposure, but I often wonder what the purpose would be with some things. I'm not sure i want to get to the place that a nude female body sparks the same reaction within me as looking at the cereal display in the supermarket.


----------



## soccermom2three

I have no idea why nipple show through has become such a bad thing. When my mom was teen, bras made woman's breasts look like two cones bolted on her chest. In my teens bra created a more natural look, (thanks hippies and bra burners). Now it's back to an unnatural look. I remember in jr. high and high school no one wanted to be caught wearing a padded bra. It meant you were trying be something you weren't. I personally like a bra that gives me a natural look and unfortunately it's really hard to find them these days. I think 90% of the bras are thickly padded and push up. When I wear them I feel like I'm wearing a bullet proof vest and when my husband gropes, he looks at me like "WTH?", lol. I accepted a long, long time ago that men were going to look at my chest, there's nothing I can do about it and I wasn't going to hide myself because of it. If my "headlights" are on, oh well.


----------



## always_alone

soccermom2three said:


> I have no idea why nipple show through has become such a bad thing. When my mom was teen, bras made woman's breasts look like two cones bolted on her chest.


Ha! I remember those! When I was younger, the only bras in my size were these hideous things with acres of material, and bones or wire embedded in them, torture devices I was told were "essential for support". 

Now it's almost impossible to buy anything that doesn't have an entire pillow stuffed into it. 

Most bras deserve to be burned, IMHO.


----------



## RandomDude

larry.gray said:


> I don't know why but I can't stop staring at this thread.


For some reason this scene keeps hovering in my head with this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAxPwHXi4PM


----------



## larry.gray

always_alone said:


> It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.


Tribal African women aren't worried about ogling and drooling. They're worried about rape. Rape rates in most of Africa are orders of magnitude worse than anywhere else in the world. It's considered a cultural norm, "the way men are."

The Western World just buries its collective heads in the sand on the entire subject because there are no good answers on how to deal with it.

http://www.voanews.com/content/acti...n-by-inequality-weak-prosecution/1785737.html


----------



## Faithful Wife

The article you linked does not discuss rape that happens to tribal people by tribal people. Your article is talking about the big cities, and even in the congo, they are saying the rampant rape is occurring from marauding combatants. This is not the same thing. When tribal people are undisturbed by outside persons, rape is not an issue. The point being that tribal women walking about naked does not incite men in their tribe to rape them.


----------



## NextTimeAround

always_alone said:


> It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.
> 
> This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business.
> 
> But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."
> 
> And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.


Are you really sure about that? Have you been in those villages observing half naked women going about their business day in day out?

Also think about the prevalence of female genital mutilation. Maybe African women aren't constantly hypersexualised because of them have been desexulaised anyway.

What I found at university is that the guys from Africa were extremely aggressive in the way that they dealt with their female classmates. I and other women had no interest in dating them. Would that be because we were hiding our breasts and nipples under layers of cloth each day? Or if we had been like our African sisters and let it all hang out, those guys would not have been so forward with us?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Faithful Wife said:


> The article you linked does not discuss rape that happens to tribal people by tribal people. Your article is talking about the big cities, and even in the congo, they are saying the rampant rape is occurring from marauding combatants. This is not the same thing. When tribal people are undisturbed by outside persons, rape is not an issue. The point being that tribal women walking about naked does not incite men in their tribe to rape them.



Well, that's one article. I understand that AIDS is rampant in most parts of Africa. Women can't get their sex partners to wear condoms. I would call that rape.

Who cares if they can let their tits hang out? AIDS doesn't.


----------



## Faithful Wife

NextTimeAround said:


> Well, that's one article. I understand that AIDS is rampant in most parts of Africa. Women can't get their sex partners to wear condoms. I would call that rape.
> 
> Who cares if they can let their tits hang out? AIDS doesn't.


The point Always Alone made was about tribal people. Most people in Africa are not tribal people and the article was not about tribal people. The rape, AIDS and lack of condoms you are talking about in Africa have literally nothing to do with Always' point. And yes, there has been a lot of documentation about real tribal people and their nudity alone does not cause rape by the men in their tribes....which actually *was* Always' point.

Are you trying to argue that seeing nipples does in fact cause rape?


----------



## NextTimeAround

Faithful Wife said:


> The point Always Alone made was about tribal people. Most people in Africa are not tribal people and the article was not about tribal people. The rape, AIDS and lack of condoms you are talking about in Africa have literally nothing to do with Always' point. And yes, there has been a lot of documentation about real tribal people and their nudity alone does not cause rape by the men in their tribes....which actually *was* Always' point.
> 
> *Are you trying to argue that seeing nipples does in fact cause rape?*


No.

Are you trying to argue that societies that allow women to regularly expose their top half have a better deal for women overall?


----------



## always_alone

NextTimeAround said:


> No.
> 
> Are you trying to argue that societies that allow women to regularly expose their top half have a better deal for women overall?


My point was extremely simple: nudity isn't necessarily sexual invitation, and isn't necessarily sexual at all. It's just bodies, we all have them, and it really isn't that big a deal.

The meanings and fears we have with respect to partial nudity or erect nipples has more to do with our culture than with our nature. Some studies have shown, for example, that heterosexual women in this culture are more likely to see female breasts as sexual/sexualized than are heterosexual men in a culture where nudity is commonplace.

I mean, how sad is it that women are actually worried about whether someone can see if our nipples are erect? And that we end up wearing giant pillows over our breasts so that we can simultaneously pretend to have boobs 3 cups larger AND that they are just Barbie breasts -- don't worry kiddos, no actual real body parts here, just some plastic bumps.


----------



## NextTimeAround

always_alone said:


> I mean, how sad is it that women are actually worried about whether someone can see if our nipples are erect? And that we end up wearing giant pillows over our breasts so that we can simultaneously pretend to have boobs 3 cups larger AND that they are just Barbie breasts -- don't worry kiddos, no actual real body parts here, just some plastic bumps.


So does this paradise exist right now where you can expose your breasts in public while you are taking your semester exams / closing business contracts / attending your chosen place of worship?

I am just pointing out that this paradise that you speak of I do not know where it exists on earth, do you?

I am curious as to why it does not exist. In societies where women do expose their breasts, all I see is regular subjugation of those women. And in the Middle East it's worse, women there cannot even expose more than a set of eyes and are still subjugated.


----------



## always_alone

NextTimeAround said:


> So does this paradise exist right now where you can expose your breasts in public while you are taking your semester exams / closing business contracts / attending your chosen place of worship?
> 
> I am just pointing out that this paradise that you speak of I do not know where it exists on earth, do you?
> 
> I am curious as to why it does not exist. In societies where women do expose their breasts, all I see is regular subjugation of those women. And in the Middle East it's worse, women there cannot even expose more than a set of eyes and are still subjugated.


??? Who said anything about paradise????

All I know is that in some places, people don't make such a big deal about nudity. A nude beach is an example of this. Greek gymnasiums where men and women exercised in the nude is another example of this. Roman toilets that had no privacy wall is another example of this. Tribal societies where people are naked or nearly naked most of the time are another example of this. 

Are all of these women subjugated? Maybe. But my point isn't about whether women are subjugated, but whether it's inevitable that an erect nipple must be viewed as some sort of giant turn on. 

And I'm thinking it's only in this culture where we are constantly hypersexualizing women and their breasts that this is actually the case.

Indeed, in a way, you've made my point for me: where women are considered so sexual that they need to be blanketed in a burqua to protect them, even a glimpse of hair or an ankle is sufficient to be embarrasingly sexual. 

In the Victorian era, they covered the piano legs because *they* were thought to be too sexual.


----------



## Faithful Wife

NextTimeAround said:


> No.
> 
> Are you trying to argue that societies that allow women to regularly expose their top half have a better deal for women overall?


Well actually....where I live, nudity isn't a big deal. And yes, I'd say women have a great deal here, overall. It is not illegal to be topless for men or women where I live and women do go topless sometimes. We also have co-ed dressing rooms in some public pools, and we also have some nude beaches. There are non-conformists who will literally just ride through town on their bikes naked (and not even on naked bike day) because they refuse to be told what to wear. Women who breast feed sometimes take their whole shirt off, because that's just easier for them. If you stare, you are considered extremely rude and it will be made clear to you that you are being a jerk. I have been in corporate board meetings with breast feeding topless moms, and no one bats an eye. Strip clubs are common and sex work is accepted (even though still not legal). There are basically naked people everywhere around here.

True we don't typically walk down the street naked, but that does happen, too. 

So yeah, I've seen people be really chill about adult nudity without raping each other and yeah, I'd say we women have a pretty good deal going on here where I live. It is not the nudity that causes problems in the societies you've mentioned, it is their whole system. Whereas, you take a liberal utopia like where I live and nudity is accepted for what it is....totally natural.


----------



## convert

Anon Pink said:


> All that to hide the unspeakable nipple?
> 
> Reminds me of women's fashions from a hundred years ago when our bodies were corseted, molded, wired, padded....hey, maybe we haven't come such a long way baby?
> 
> Sigh.


who knows, maybe some day the nipple will be acceptable, even building the bras with built-in high beams:grin2:

and hopefully mirror sunglasses will also came back into fad>


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
T-shirts with pictures over the breasts really do encourage staring. Its natural to try to see what the words / pictures are. Then you find you have been staring at a woman's breasts for several seconds trying to read / interpret the picture.

This is absolutely not an excuse to grope.




always_alone said:


> I can relate! When I was younger, I used to alter my dress habits to get away from this sort of crap. For example, I stopped wearing t-shirts with any kind of logo, writing, or picture on them because random guys kept using this as an excuse to grope me.
> 
> But now that I am older and fewer people (if any) care, and I have a force field and strong filters, I really haven't got a nanosecond of attention for guys like that. If you can't talk to me as a person, well you can't talk to me. Simple.


----------



## Faithful Wife

convert said:


> who knows, maybe some day the nipple will be acceptable, even building the bras with built-in high beams:grin2:


They already did. Not a big seller, though. These were back in the 70's when not only was it in fashion to let your nips show, it was desirable...and if you couldn't get the full pop out look, you could buy one of these.


----------



## convert

Faithful Wife said:


> They already did. Not a big seller, though. These were back in the 70's when not only was it in fashion to let your nips show, it was desirable...and if you couldn't get the full pop out look, you could buy one of these.


holly cow, I like it

maybe someday again.

I hope that's not $2,000 and $ 150 s/h:surprise:

The Nipple Bra Is The 1970s Most Confusing Contribution To Lingerie History (PHOTO)


There's no need for women to hide their nipples behind padded bras | Jessica Valenti | Comment is free | The Guardian


----------



## convert

I am googling like crazy to find one for my wife.


the only thing, so far, I can find:
Amazon.com: Bra with Open Nipple in One Size and Plus Size in Black, Red or White: Adult Exotic Bras: Clothing



I found these:
http://www.thebreastformstore.com/fake-nipples2.aspx


----------



## Faithful Wife

Um...I'm assuming your wife has actual nipples. Why would she need one of these?


----------



## convert

Faithful Wife said:


> Um...I'm assuming your wife has actual nipples. Why would she need one of these?



yea the last link I guess are prosthetic.

but the bra you showed would just be for the high beam effect.
I never knew those existed


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> They already did. Not a big seller, though. These were back in the 70's when not only was it in fashion to let your nips show, it was desirable...and if you couldn't get the full pop out look, you could buy one of these.


Well... that's practically wearing a shirt going "Look look at my bewbies! Look!"

Way to stop traffic...


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Is there something for dudes with our low beams.


----------



## Ikaika

http://youtu.be/M-O5QTpBvHw


----------



## southbound

Faithful Wife said:


> Whereas, you take a liberal utopia like where I live and nudity is accepted for what it is....totally natural.


Sure, the naked body is natural; that goes without saying. There are lots of things that can be given the label of natural. It doesn't mean it belongs in every environment and situation.


----------



## Faithful Wife

southbound said:


> Sure, the naked body is natural; that goes without saying. There are lots of things that can be given the label of natural. It doesn't mean it belongs in every environment and situation.


Meh, I say it would be fine, even better, if we were all mostly naked and ate natural foods. I love the type of society we live in, but I can easily imagine living as a nudist or say, living like the ancient Hawaiians did....ahhh....to live in that perfect climate, never cut your hair, put flowers in it, and swim in the ocean every day....and be nude most of the time? Sounds like paradise, actually.


----------



## Ikaika

Faithful Wife said:


> Meh, I say it would be fine, even better, if we were all mostly naked and ate natural foods. I love the type of society we live in, but I can easily imagine living as a nudist or say, *living like the ancient Hawaiians did....ahhh....to live in that perfect climate, never cut your hair, put flowers in it, and swim in the ocean every day....and be nude most of the time? Sounds like paradise, actually*.


:grin2:


----------



## RandomDude

Arent there reservations over there? Can always take a trip and live like them for a while no?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sure. I'd get too lonely though because no one I know would do it with me. 

There is also nudist travel...I would not do this due to my current lifestyle, but in previous decades, I would have...

https://www.aanr.com/places-to-go


----------



## Ikaika

Faithful Wife said:


> Sure. I'd get too lonely though because no one I know would do it with me.



Obviously you never saw the surf video of my friends and I that I posted over a year ago, here on TAM. A bit grainy since it was filmed on a 8mm back in the 70s


----------



## Faithful Wife

No I did not, but I would love to! Were you naked surfing?

I just meant that if I went to Hawaii to live in the nude for some amount of time, like Random suggested, no one from here would come with me. They would tell me we are too old for that now. 

But I actually do want to come live there someday...not nude, just normal...though of course, much less clothes than I have to wear here. Basically though, over there I would be nude compared to here. 

I love when I go to Hawaii and see so many nearly naked people. People walking around in grocery stores in a bikini or swim trunks. People just being free and healthy.


----------



## Ikaika

Faithful Wife said:


> No I did not, but I would love to! Were you naked surfing?
> 
> I just meant that if I went to Hawaii to live in the nude for some amount of time, like Random suggested, no one from here would come with me. They would tell me we are too old for that now.
> 
> But I actually do want to come live there someday...not nude, just normal...though of course, much less clothes than I have to wear here. Basically though, over there I would be nude compared to here.
> 
> I love when I go to Hawaii and see so many nearly naked people. People walking around in grocery stores in a bikini or swim trunks. People just being free and healthy.



No nude surfing but captured a typical scene... We came to the beach with gallon containers of fresh water. When we came in from a surf session we just stripped down, poured the water over our head and body (rinse away the salt water) before changing into dry clothes. There was one scene that captured, both male and female surfers carrying out this activity.


----------



## nirvana

To a straight guy, seeing erect nipples of a woman just means "I am aroused" which most men translate to "You are hot... I want you... just F me". Yes, there are many reasons that the nips stand up, but you cannot blame men for being optimistic. 

It is a highly sensual scene. When my wife and I indulge in foreplay and I see them getting bigger, it's highly erotic to look at as it conveys the "F me" notion. I heighten it in her but massaging around it until she grabs my head and rubs it on her nips wanting me to suck them. Wow... I love it if I can make her do that.

Women do the same, the male visual clue is an erection or a "bulge".


----------



## Always Learning

Two things I have noticed related to this lately are,

I recently went on vacation at a beach area that has a lot of T-shirt shops, nearly all the mannequins modeling shirts had very pronounced nipples.

It is now very fashionable for younger women to wear black skin tight yoga or stretch pants that leave little to the imagination but wear heavily padded or foam bras to make sure no one can tell the have nipples.

Seems very odd to me.

Personally I think the new bras make breasts look unnatural. I don't like them.


----------



## alte Dame

Always Learning said:


> It is now very fashionable for younger women to wear black skin tight yoga or stretch pants that leave little to the imagination but wear heavily padded or foam bras to make sure no one can tell the have nipples.
> 
> Seems very odd to me.
> 
> Personally I think the new bras make breasts look unnatural. I don't like them.


I've noticed this, too. The padding and wiring make you look two cup sizes bigger. And I think that's the point, isn't it? It may hide the nipples, but it also exaggerates the size.

I've also noticed how bra sizes are inflated now. I think this is to make women feel bigger than they are, lol.

I've been a 32C my whole life (except pregnancy). Now, when I shop, I wind up with a 36D. I recently did a professional sizing with a tape measure and I was 31/32C.

Boob inflation. Not many people want to argue with that, I imagine.


----------



## nirvana

alte Dame said:


> I've noticed this, too. The padding and wiring make you look two cup sizes bigger. And I think that's the point, isn't it? It may hide the nipples, but it also exaggerates the size.
> 
> I've also noticed how bra sizes are inflated now. I think this is to make women feel bigger than they are, lol.
> 
> I've been a 32C my whole life (except pregnancy). Now, when I shop, I wind up with a 36D. I recently did a professional sizing with a tape measure and I was 31/32C.
> 
> Boob inflation. Not many people want to argue with that, I imagine.



ha... I was going to say the same thing... women have to make a choice, either have bigger boobs or cover up nips. They choose bigger boobs because they attract more male attention. I agree with the choice. 

At work there are a lot of 25 year olds walking around with outlandishly sized boobs, makes you wonder if they are natural. The correct answer more likely is that they are heavily padded. You can tell because on other days, they seem more flat, so many be no padding today. I am sure the guys don't complain, it does enhance the look.

It may be just me, but I think that showing nips in everyday situations like work, in the streets etc is tacky/slooty. I wouldn't want my daughter doing it when she grows up. Keep that as a happy surprise for your husband rather than the world.

I won't lie. I am a boob man and those catch my attention.

The other thing most younger women do to grab attention is to wear a black bra inside and a white/light/transparent shirt on top. That conveys the sense of showing while trying (pretending) to hide, which men find arousing. Those never fail to grab eyeballs!


----------



## Cletus

alte Dame said:


> Boob inflation. Not many people want to argue with that, I imagine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k00eDgNzOU


----------



## Idyit

I think rarity/novelty creates value. Braless-ness and thus a visible nipple is not so common in most places evidenced by the padded bra. When we aren't accustomed to seeing something like an erect nipple poking through your bosses shirt it can be at least cause for intrigue.

Along these lines I used to work quite a bit in South Florida. At first it seemed like there was massive cleavage, nipples and spandex everywhere. Over time it dulled, not a big deal. Haven't worked there in some time but when I go back it would be like starting all over again.

Personally I like rarity.

~ Passio


----------



## nirvana

Idyit said:


> I think rarity/novelty creates value. Braless-ness and thus a visible nipple is not so common in most places evidenced by the padded bra. When we aren't accustomed to seeing something like an erect nipple poking through your bosses shirt it can be at least cause for intrigue.
> 
> Along these lines I used to work quite a bit in South Florida. At first it seemed like there was massive cleavage, nipples and spandex everywhere. Over time it dulled, not a big deal. Haven't worked there in some time but when I go back it would be like starting all over again.
> 
> Personally I like rarity.
> 
> ~ Passio


Fully agree. This is counter intuitive because logically men should want to see a nude woman, but once the man sees her, he moves on after some time. The mystery is gone so to speak. But a slight cleavage show or a tight top adds to the mystery and allure. This is advanced stuff if you think about it! 

That is why I don't advocate husband and wife walking around at home naked. That leaves nothing special for the bedroom. I have seen my wife naked in bed, but she always dresses conservatively and does not show cleavage, but when it does come forth, it's a special treat for me. Then I notice that she covers up immediately... DARN!  A stolen view is always 1000 times more satisfying than if the woman flashes you. A college kid will never agree to what I just said.


----------



## soccermom2three

Always Learning said:


> Two things I have noticed related to this lately are,
> 
> I recently went on vacation at a beach area that has a lot of T-shirt shops, nearly all the mannequins modeling shirts had very pronounced nipples.
> 
> It is now very fashionable for younger women to wear black skin tight yoga or stretch pants that leave little to the imagination but wear heavily padded or foam bras to make sure no one can tell the have nipples.
> 
> Seems very odd to me.
> 
> Personally I think the new bras make breasts look unnatural. I don't like them.


Wow, that didn't even occur to me. The tight yoga pants or workout shorts, but OMG, we must hide the nipples!


----------



## Ikaika

soccermom2three said:


> Wow, that didn't even occur to me. The tight yoga pants or workout shorts, but OMG, *we must hide the nipples*!



Noooooooo


----------



## nirvana

Personal said:


> Really? I've seen plenty of clothed women in passing with very erect nipples and my first thoughts (especially at the moment since it's winter here) are her nipples might be cold. I've never thought the woman is thinking "You are hot... I want you... just F me".



Ok then.. you must be different.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Or maybe he just understands physiology.


----------



## nirvana

Faithful Wife said:


> Or maybe he just understands physiology.


Maybe. Or maybe he doesn't.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sure nirvana, every woman you ever see with hard, visible nipples, is thinking "you're so hot, F me now!"

Yep, that's what it means. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## larry.gray

nirvana said:


> That is why I don't advocate husband and wife walking around at home naked. That leaves nothing special for the bedroom.


I've been married 22 years and boredom has never hit for me. My wife is not modest at home, and I see her naked all the time. She still gets me going all the time. I never understood longerie. Naked is so much more exciting.


----------



## larry.gray

Personal said:


> Really? I've seen plenty of clothed women in passing with very erect nipples and my first thoughts (especially at the moment since it's winter here) are her nipples might be cold. I've never thought the woman is thinking "You are hot... I want you... just F me".


Hmm, I'm just thinking "MMMMMM Nipples, I like nipples. Whoa, hey stop staring, avert eye contact."


----------



## NobodySpecial

Faithful Wife said:


> Sure nirvana, every woman you ever see with hard, visible nipples, is thinking "you're so hot, F me now!"
> 
> Yep, that's what it means. Makes perfect sense.


The idea of touching nirvana with a ten foot pole ... or really being in the same city... makes my skin crawl.


----------



## nirvana

hahaha some of you are so sensitive!

NobodySpecial, no body wants to touch you either, so you are safe. As you say, you are nobody special.


----------



## FeministInPink

nirvana said:


> hahaha some of you are so sensitive!
> 
> NobodySpecial, no body wants to touch you either, so you are safe. As you say, you are nobody special.


That was mean, and unnecessary. And telling people they are too sensitive is an attempt at emotional manipulation. 

Stop it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

FeministInPink said:


> That was mean, and unnecessary. And telling people they are too sensitive is an attempt at emotional manipulation.
> 
> Stop it.


I was not particularly nice either. My bad.


----------



## FeministInPink

NobodySpecial said:


> I was not particularly nice either. My bad.


I want you both to say you are sorry and play nice


----------



## nirvana

FeministInPink said:


> That was mean, and unnecessary. And telling people they are too sensitive is an attempt at emotional manipulation.
> 
> Stop it.


FIP, why are you taking sides? I hope you will be fair instead of just rushing to support someone of your own gender.

To NobodySpecial's credit, she admitted what she did (I am assuming you are female because I cannot tell), and I applaud it.
NS, no hard feelings from my side.


----------



## nirvana

NobodySpecial said:


> I was not particularly nice either. My bad.


No problem.
Let me clarify my opinion. I am not quoting scientific study but I am sure there is something somewhere.
Men and women interact and watch for signals and clues. We all want to be liked/desired by the opposite sex. That is just the way it is. If a woman smiles at a man, it is a positive sign. You can tell a fake smile vs a real one. A real one says "I am happy to see/talk/meet you" in various magnitudes. There are other signs that women do like paying with the hair, laugh at even the silliest jokes etc etc. I have experienced this myself so I know this to be true. There have been women who like me and I can see it in their eyes and their body language. And I have also met women who are neutral towards me, so I can see that too. And yes, some who don't like me for whatever reason. Likewise men do things like puffing themselves up, trying to be cool etc to impress the woman. 

So erect nips also communicate that the woman is aroused and the man next to them in bed gets the signal that his efforts have been successful. Obviously if a woman is walking on the street and you see her pokies, only a foolish man thinks that she is into him. Do people like "Personal" want me to spell out every scenario to avoid him from nitpicking? Try to understand the theme of what I am saying. 

If "Personal" thinks that it does not mean anything, then he is welcome to his opinion. I have the right to mine and I hope I can express it here without people getting snarky.


----------



## FeministInPink

nirvana said:


> FIP, why are you taking sides? I hope you will be fair instead of just rushing to support someone of your own gender.
> 
> To NobodySpecial's credit, she admitted what she did (I am assuming you are female because I cannot tell), and I applaud it.
> NS, no hard feelings from my side.


I saw your post before I saw hers. And so I responded to yours.

But honestly, some of your posts on this thread are giving me a creepy vibe, as you seem to be defending the men who ogle. So, yeah, her "wouldn't touch with a ten-foot-pole" or whatever it was line was a little out of line. But I understand where she's coming from, because I wouldn't want you ogling at my chest, either.

ETA: Your most recent post, which went up simultaneously as mine here, clarifies a little more. And makes your stance a little less creepy.


----------



## NobodySpecial

FeministInPink said:


> I saw your post before I saw hers. And so I responded to yours.
> 
> But honestly, some of your posts on this thread are giving me a creepy vibe, as you seem to be defending the men who ogle.


The creep factor for me is the notion that we are communicating that to HIM. Ew.


----------



## nirvana

FeministInPink said:


> I saw your post before I saw hers. And so I responded to yours.
> 
> But honestly, some of your posts on this thread are giving me a creepy vibe, as you seem to be defending the men who ogle. So, yeah, her "wouldn't touch with a ten-foot-pole" or whatever it was line was a little out of line. But I understand where she's coming from, because I wouldn't want you ogling at my chest, either.
> 
> ETA: Your most recent post, which went up simultaneously as mine here, clarifies a little more. And makes your stance a little less creepy.


I have said this earlier on a different thread, that all this is very nuanced, and that does not come through in short posts here. So it's not wise to jump to conclusions and label someone. In one thread, I said I was making 6 figures plus but not very happy with my job so looking for an upgrade that I would be happy with, and a member ran with it claiming I was unemployed and hence my wife did not respect me. That happens a lot here.

Anyway, the way you express it above makes it sound creepy. The fact is that men look at women and women look at men. I have caught women looking at me several times. And I look at women also, especially if they have the characteristics I like. I am married, so I don't lust for anyone and my wife is very pretty, slim, and when she is in a good mood, she is very loving as well. 

By "ogling", I assume you mean that when men openly and blatantly try to visually strip a woman, look down their shirt in tacky ways all that. No, I don't advocate that. I don't know where you got that, I recommend you re-read my post without any bias in your mind.

Don't worry, you are on the internet, no one will "ogle" at your chest on here. Stop flattering yourself.


----------



## FeministInPink

Nirvana, I was with you, right until this point:



nirvana said:


> Don't worry, you are on the internet, no one will "ogle" at your chest on here. *Stop flattering yourself.*


Seriously? I'm not an idiot, nirvana, despite the fact that you treat me like I am. I know no one is going to ogle my chest on the internet unless I post ogle-worthy photos up, which I'm not going to do.

Why do you feel the need to insult people? I've seen you do this before to other (mostly female) TAM posters, so I know it isn't just me. In fact, you just did it to NobodySpecial a few posts ago. And I noticed that while she took responsibility for her bad behavior, I didn't see you apologize to her. You want to call out everyone else and shame them for their "bad" behavior, but you don't take ownership of your own.

Interesting.


----------



## Anon Pink

nirvana said:


> FIP, why are you taking sides? I hope you will be fair instead of just rushing to support someone of your own gender.
> 
> To NobodySpecial's credit, she admitted what she did (I am assuming you are female because I cannot tell), and I applaud it.
> NS, no hard feelings from my side.


And yet no apology from you when your comment was worse than NS's? You accepted her apology but failed to make your own? I see, you accepted her taking responsibility for causing you to be mean, but you take no responsibility for being mean. 

Nirvana, you have been around a bit and I know I've told you before but you really do have a very narrow view of women and it shows in many of your posts.

For instance, assuming an erect nipple means the woman is aroused and wants to be fvcked. This thread has clearly demonstrated that this is not at all true and those men, except for you, who have commented on that fallacy have agreed it IS a fallacy. 

Now I will explain why it's important to get that firmly planted in your mind....

When you see a woman and judge that she wants to be fvcked you demonstrate that in your POV, women either want it, or they don't want it. You have sexualized women to the extent that you can only judge them in one of two ways, fvckable or not. And once you have judged them you dismiss them.



> men should want to see a nude woman, but once the man sees her, he moves on after some time.


We don't want to be judged in that way. We want to be seen as a whole person with more value and more right to be judged as a whole person. There are many ways in which we all judge one another because it's human nature to judge, to asses worth and value. But to take one measly measurement fvckable or not, is to devalue the many OTHER ways women bring value to society. 



> They choose bigger boobs *because they attract more male attention*.



So you really think women choose bigger boobs because ...MEN? Aside from that being a childish view in its self centered way of judging others, it's totally wrong!

When a woman gets dressed to impress it means she wants to be seen as a confident put together woman. It doe NOT mean that she wants to get fvcked, she wants men to ogle, whistle, call out, or the dozen other ways men can demean a woman and reduce her down to "fvckable or not."



> To a straight guy, seeing erect nipples of a woman just means "I am aroused" which most men translate to "You are hot... I want you... just F me". Yes, there are many reasons that the nips stand up, but you cannot blame men for being optimistic.


No, it doesn't mean that, unless that straight guy and that woman are in bed and having sex. Please get that through your head!!!!





> It is a highly sensual scene. When my wife and I indulge in foreplay and I see them getting bigger, it's highly erotic to look at as it conveys the "F me" notion. I heighten it in her but massaging around it until she grabs my head and rubs it on her nips wanting me to suck them. Wow... I love it if I can make her do that.
> 
> Women do the same, the male visual clue is an erection or a "bulge".


No, women do NOT do that to men. We might asses the relative size of the bulge but we never assume that bulge is a direct response to ourselves, unless we happen to be engaged in some sex play with that man.

A woman on the street with erect nipples is cold. A woman in bed with her lover with erect nipples could be cold or could be aroused. A man with a bulge in his pants is NOT EVER due to being cold and a man on the street with a boner is seen as a teenager or a pervert, or a medical problem!

Because when men get an erection that are aroused, you think when women's nipples become erect they are or might be aroused. This is not true and this has been discussed all over this thread.


It's okay to see a nipple and WISH that it meant she wanted to be fvcked but it is not okay to JUDGE that she wants to be fvcked, unless she is your wife and you know the difference between cold and aroused!

You need to take responsibility for yourself and that means that you take measures to ensure your POV is as correct as you can possibly make it. It means that you view the world with deeper meaning than fvckable or not. It means that you understand that not everything you see is done for you, or for your gender, or to illicit your response. It means that if you see an ankle on a woman it has NO BEARING on how you react to it. Being a straight guy is no excuse to place such limited value on women! Every man in this thread, except you, has demonstrated that they can be straight men who like women and women's bodies but do not judge women based on fvckable or not.

*I've always thought men in places like Saudi Arabia must be incredibly selfish, kinda stupid and childishly weak. Selfish because they think it is someone else's responsibility when they think about sex; stupid because they think they are the targets of a woman showing skin; and weak because they cannot control their own responses.*


----------



## NobodySpecial

FeministInPink said:


> Nirvana, I was with you, right until this point:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? I'm not an idiot, nirvana, despite the fact that you treat me like I am. I know no one is going to ogle my chest on the internet unless I post ogle-worthy photos up, which I'm not going to do.
> 
> Why do you feel the need to insult people? I've seen you do this before to other (mostly *female*) TAM posters, so I know it isn't just me.


All his posts about his b!tch of a wife are about why "women" are like that. This dude really does not like women.


----------



## FeministInPink

NobodySpecial said:


> All his posts about his b!tch of a wife are about why "women" are like that. This dude really does not like women.


That is the understanding that I have come to from reading some of his other posts. I'm not even sure why I bother. I suppose I'm just too hopeful in thinking that people are capable of learning and growth.


----------



## nirvana

FIP, are you sure you were with me? Remember just a few hours ago how you didn't even read the exchange, you started to blame me without reading NS's post that started it all. 

Why can't I respond when people insult me and make wrong assumptions on my thought process? I was accused of advocating ogling. It made me shake my head. A forum is for opinions, not everything is wrong or right all the time. Please read the posts, and how you and NS are trying to paint me as "creepy" just because I might have a different viewpoint. Do you expect everyone to agree with you or think just like you? I am sorry, that will never happen.

Your post above contains a lot of assumptions and falsifications. NS said this and I quote:


> The idea of touching nirvana with a ten foot pole ... or really being in the same city... makes my skin crawl.


This was totally unprovoked, rude and mean as she herself said in a subsequent post, and you chose to disregard this and go hammer and tongs at my reply. The bias is clearly visible.


----------



## nirvana

NobodySpecial said:


> All his posts about his b!tch of a wife are about why "women" are like that. This dude really does not like women.


Yes, now you stand in judgement about who likes who. Sure. Please mind your language when you talk about my wife. 

When all logic fails, accuse people of being sexist/racist/mysogynists/etc/etc.
:grin2:
NS has been following me in several threads and posting flame-baits. A couple of months ago, another poster had sent me a private message warning me about her. I didn't see it then but I see this now.


----------



## nirvana

Anon Pink said:


> And yet no apology from you when your comment was worse than NS's? You accepted her apology but failed to make your own? I see, you accepted her taking responsibility for causing you to be mean, but you take no responsibility for being mean.
> 
> Nirvana, you have been around a bit and I know I've told you before but you really do have a very narrow view of women and it shows in many of your posts.
> 
> For instance, assuming an erect nipple means the woman is aroused and wants to be fvcked. This thread has clearly demonstrated that this is not at all true and those men, except for you, who have commented on that fallacy have agreed it IS a fallacy.
> 
> Now I will explain why it's important to get that firmly planted in your mind....
> 
> When you see a woman and judge that she wants to be fvcked you demonstrate that in your POV, women either want it, or they don't want it. You have sexualized women to the extent that you can only judge them in one of two ways, fvckable or not. And once you have judged them you dismiss them.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't want to be judged in that way. We want to be seen as a whole person with more value and more right to be judged as a whole person. There are many ways in which we all judge one another because it's human nature to judge, to asses worth and value. But to take one measly measurement fvckable or not, is to devalue the many OTHER ways women bring value to society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you really think women choose bigger boobs because ...MEN? Aside from that being a childish view in its self centered way of judging others, it's totally wrong!
> 
> When a woman gets dressed to impress it means she wants to be seen as a confident put together woman. It doe NOT mean that she wants to get fvcked, she wants men to ogle, whistle, call out, or the dozen other ways men can demean a woman and reduce her down to "fvckable or not."
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't mean that, unless that straight guy and that woman are in bed and having sex. Please get that through your head!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, women do NOT do that to men. We might asses the relative size of the bulge but we never assume that bulge is a direct response to ourselves, unless we happen to be engaged in some sex play with that man.
> 
> A woman on the street with erect nipples is cold. A woman in bed with her lover with erect nipples could be cold or could be aroused. A man with a bulge in his pants is NOT EVER due to being cold and a man on the street with a boner is seen as a teenager or a pervert, or a medical problem!
> 
> Because when men get an erection that are aroused, you think when women's nipples become erect they are or might be aroused. This is not true and this has been discussed all over this thread.
> 
> 
> It's okay to see a nipple and WISH that it meant she wanted to be fvcked but it is not okay to JUDGE that she wants to be fvcked, unless she is your wife and you know the difference between cold and aroused!
> 
> You need to take responsibility for yourself and that means that you take measures to ensure your POV is as correct as you can possibly make it. It means that you view the world with deeper meaning than fvckable or not. It means that you understand that not everything you see is done for you, or for your gender, or to illicit your response. It means that if you see an ankle on a woman it has NO BEARING on how you react to it. Being a straight guy is no excuse to place such limited value on women! Every man in this thread, except you, has demonstrated that they can be straight men who like women and women's bodies but do not judge women based on fvckable or not.
> 
> *I've always thought men in places like Saudi Arabia must be incredibly selfish, kinda stupid and childishly weak. Selfish because they think it is someone else's responsibility when they think about sex; stupid because they think they are the targets of a woman showing skin; and weak because they cannot control their own responses.*


You call "my bad" an apology? How about "I am sorry"?

Anyway, you posted a lot here which are just more assumptions on my thought process which fits into some per-conceived notions you might have. I don't have the time to correct them all.
Sorry.


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## Anon Pink

nirvana said:


> You call "my bad" an apology? How about "I am sorry"?
> 
> Anyway, you posted a lot here which are just more assumptions on my thought process which fits into some per-conceived notions you might have. I don't have the time to correct them all.
> Sorry.


Yes, saying "my bad" is accepting responsibility for doing or saying something they shouldn't have done or said. Did you mention your responsibility for the means things you said? If you did I must have missed it.

The last line of defense of a child, "You just don't understand me!" Have you stomped your feet and slammed your bedroom door yet?


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## Always Learning

To get back on track or a little closer to it.

I just read an article about a movement called "Free the Nipple" it is really about topless rights for women. They held a minor demonstration at a beach local to me. I was actually at the beach the day it happened but it is large crowded beach so I did not even notice. Three women removed their tops and then two others not related to the movement joined in. As it turns out in this particular state it is not illegal and this is a state owned beach. They were testing for a larger demonstration later this month.

The odd part was reading the comments to the article about the harm that would happen to the young children if they were to see a naked breast. You would have thought it was like exposing them to nuclear radiation and their eyes would burn and fall out. I just can't believe the reaction people have to the naked human body. Children would not have a negative reaction to a naked breast unless someone teaches it to them.

Now granted this may not be the best beach for this since it is very popular and has thousands any day of the week during the summer. A lot of commenters said there a beaches for that or nudist colonies. They have no clue. There are no topless or nude sanctioned beaches within 100 miles of there. Topless is not the same as nude.

But, yes please don't show a nipple, wearing thongs is OK kids won't freak out about them LOL!


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## Cletus

Always Learning said:


> The odd part was reading the comments to the article about the harm that would happen to the young children if they were to see a naked breast. You would have thought it was like exposing them to nuclear radiation and their eyes would burn and fall out.


You remember the scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark where the Nazis open the Ark of the Covenant? Little known fact, but it has been reported that the chest was filled with naked breasts with perpetually erect nipples.


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## Beepbeep

people associate boobs with sex. Going to the gym and my nipples show, men stare and women give mean looks. Jealousy or viewing it as inappropriate (****ty) whatever. I breastfed my daughter for 2 years so I'm desensitized to seeing boobs for the most part. People just can't deal because boobs are seen as such a sex object.


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## Anon Pink

cletus said:


> you remember the scene at the end of raiders of the lost ark where the nazis open the ark of the covenant? Little known fact, but it has been reported that the chest was filled with naked breasts with perpetually erect nipples.




nipples!!!!!!


View attachment 37226


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## ocotillo

Cletus said:


> You remember the scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark where the Nazis open the Ark of the Covenant? Little known fact, but it has been reported that the chest was filled with naked breasts with perpetually erect nipples.



No wonder Belloq said, "It's beautiful!" 

--Just before his brains exploded.....


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## joriek

Great question and responses. I find myself covering my nipples when they are hard. I don't want people to think I am turned on. Some women's nipples never show. It seems like mine always do. I feel like it is unprofessional at work. I wear padded bras, D cup and don't have big nipples but they show. I wish I was one of those women that they didn't show. It is not like we can control them.


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## nirvana

Cletus said:


> You remember the scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark where the Nazis open the Ark of the Covenant? Little known fact, but it has been reported that the chest was filled with naked breasts with perpetually erect nipples.


OMG!!!
I remember watching that when I was around 10 and it scared the sheet out of me. :surprise:
I still remember that scene and hardly anything else (yes, and the sword fighting combat scene)


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat

I thing I think is strange is that many of the television networks will "grey out/blur" (whatever you want to call it) to make sure that any visible signs of nipples don't show threw clothing. I recall reading an article about terry hatcher. She liked to go braless but, the network/producers of desperate housewives did not think their audience would want to see that. I can't recall if they made her tape her nipples or if they blurred them out. 

I have seen programs where it would clearly appear that the video is being altered to cover up nipples. It would seem they do this to make sure that you cannot see any outline of the labia. 

It would seem that somebody that is influencing these network executives believes that we should try to cover women's bodies to take away it actually looks. Women's bras today also try to cover any evidence of nipples. Who and why do they do that?


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## NotEasy

Spring is obviously almost here (Australia). I saw a woman dressed to show this strange new fashion sense. She wore a see thru top with a bra that seemed off a comic book cover, four black panels with white tape bands joining the panels and around the edges. The top was so see thru that I could see individual stitches of white thread along the edge of the white bands. So hard not to stare.
And following the modern fashion etiquette there was no sign of nipples, that wouldn't have been unacceptable.


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## Faithful Wife

Heyyyyy...check out my bra! (but not my nipples, how dare you!)

:laugh:

It is sort of absurd. But it is a trend in bras and clothing.

Hopefully Anon is starting a new trend of being able to go braless as a fashion accessory, rather than as a sign around your neck that says "ogle me".

I am sure if I saw nips all the time, I wouldn't want to stare at them as much. So rock on Anon, my sister, you braless hussie.


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## Always Learning

Doesn't anybody remember watching Charlie's Angels with Farrah Fawcett. There wasn't an episode that didn't prominently feature Farrah's nipples. You would never see that today!


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat

I think we have to look at history. I think that the media really plays a larger part in what we believe to be decent or acceptable. This is true of many things including fashion. 

I am in my late 40s. When i was a boy i used to look through the underware and swimsuit pages of mail order catelogues (young-men's porn substitute of the time). Back then women's areolas were clearly visible through almost all bras. One exception were the ones that were built into girdles or the ones built seemingly out of iron. Often you could see pubic hair and or the outline of the labia. The same can be said for bathing suits. Perhaps this is because it was leftover from the burn your bra type movements as for me this would have occurred in the early 70s. 

I am not sure if some mom became bothered that her precious son was spanking the monkey while getting an eyeful of "smut" courtesy of JC Penny and Sears or what. At some point, it became common practice to conceal these things (digitally or otherwise) in the interest of "modesty". This makes visible nipples somewhat uncommon, taboo and if anything heighten the "oogle factor". Men may tend to look simply because they don't get to see these things much. 

Ironically, the media is usually progressive and liberal....go figure.


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## nirvana

Some 10 years ago, there was a TV show on network Tv called "Las Vegas" with Molly Sims. The first shot of the first episode was of her having sex with someone where she is on top. Then her dad opens the door and she coolly looks back and says "hi daddy". In that scene, while the camera shows her bare back, there is a mirror opposite her and you can clearly see her nipples. Lucky guy!!


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## ExiledBayStater

happy as a clam said:


> Not uncomfortable at all. You're misreading my comments.
> 
> I just find it distracting, that's all. If a guy at the gym had a* giant boner* while lifting weights and all the women were gawking, I think I can predict that he would quietly exit to the men's room.


When I was 12, sometimes I freeballed. Sometimes I wore sweatpants. Occasionally, those dressing choices intersected on the same day.

On one such extraordinary day of unshielded sweatpants, we were studying the cardiovascular system in science class. The teacher had us do jumping jacks to observe how it affected our heart rate.

I tried a few and had to stop. And I never again wore sweatpants while freeballing.


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## Mrs.Submission

Anon Pink said:


> Okay interesting thoughts. You are uncomfortable with men gawking at you when you nipples show through.
> 
> I completely understand that discomfort.
> 
> What I want to understand is where that discomfort comes from. Eyes can be sexy. Smokey sultry eyes can garner lots of attention. Yet we don't feel discomfort when people/men gawk at our eyes. In fact, we feel validated. So why the shame for attention to nipples and validation for attention to eyes?


I think it is because breasts and nipples are sexualized in our society whereas eyes are not. 

The discomfort comes from conditioning about social norms. 

Showing nipples is viewed as trashy so I won't do it unless I am at home. I also do not like being stared at by perverts.


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## Mrs.Submission

larry.gray said:


> I've been married 22 years and boredom has never hit for me. My wife is not modest at home, and I see her naked all the time. She still gets me going all the time. I never understood longerie. Naked is so much more exciting.


This. I love being scantily clad in the house and my husband's desire hasn't waned. Hubby loves lingerie because it is "the pretty wrapping on a package" in his words.


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## Anon Pink

Faithful Wife said:


> Heyyyyy...check out my bra! (but not my nipples, how dare you!)
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> It is sort of absurd. But it is a trend in bras and clothing.
> 
> Hopefully Anon is starting a new trend of being able to go braless as a fashion accessory, rather than as a sign around your neck that says "ogle me".
> 
> I am sure if I saw nips all the time, I wouldn't want to stare at them as much. So rock on Anon, my sister, you braless hussie.



Little known fact about going bra-less. It's a good idea to make sure your breast are evenly tucked into the shirt so that when those reactive nipples make their appearance, you're pointing straight and not screw eyed. 
:surprise:


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## Faithful Wife

But that's one of the reasons I actually like my bras that don't let me poke through them....they are almost always in there crooked when they are stuffed into a bra! If I'm going to have them poking out, I at least don't want to look like I'm leaning sideways. 

I wore a bra today that did not have proper nipple cover (with a shirt you can't see them through, so I could free the nipple a little bit but only because, ha! Still can't see them!). Then I accidentally bumped my boob on sharp corner and yeowch! I forgot how much that hurts without that extra protection of a thicker bra!


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## Faithful Wife

Mrs.Submission said:


> I also do not like being stared at by perverts.


I humbly apologize. I'll try to do better.


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## Anon Pink

:lol:


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## Anon Pink

Personal said:


> My wife having smaller rather perky breasts hasn't encountered that problem.


Yes, this is generally only a problem with larger breasts.


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## GTdad

Personal said:


> Is it really a problem, breasts and nipples are cool even when they're not uniform.


Although if one nipple is pointing southwest and the other is pointing northeast, a person might be aroused and amused all at the same time.


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## Faithful Wife

Personal said:


> Is it really a problem, breasts and nipples are cool even when they're not uniform.


I don't know why, but if I see myself in a mirror and I'm going two different directions, it just makes me feel silly. Like having your tags hanging out the back of an otherwise lovely outfit. I instantly have to reach in and adjust one or both and make them straight. So annoying!

I recall reading a male author talk about his fascination with seeing nips going two different directions once, and while reading it I was thinking it was interesting that he felt that way...but it in no way made me think any differently about it.

Again, it is one of the reasons I wear nipple-obscuring bras.

However, in a swimsuit, I'm like screw it...I don't care anymore and am not paying any mind to whether I'm lined up or not.


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## Anon Pink

Personal said:


> Is it really a problem, breasts and nipples are cool even when they're not uniform.


I wouldn't use the word problem... It just annoys me when I notice I'm pointing in different directions. And like @Faithful Wife said, I have to immediately fix it as soon as I notice it.


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## always_alone

They keep my office at roughly minus 40 degrees with the air conditioning, and so even with the 17 sweaters you need to stay warm, there is absolutely no way to avoid the problem of erect nipples.

Today, I was in the washroom and noticed they were pointing in different directions. In honour of FW and AP, I left them that way.

Ha! Rebels-r-us!


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## Quigster

Anon Pink said:


> What do you think? Why is nipple show through such a fashion disaster?


Where I live, I occasionally see women prancing around who are obviously not wearing bras. Only one layer of material between the nipples and the outside world. I had actually assumed that perhaps times were changing and that nipple-shyness was slowly going away. Perhaps I'm wrong?

(If we have to live in a world where men seem to have decided they don't have to shave their beards any longer, and that everyone walks around looking like they belong on Duck Dynasty... the least the women can do is counter that movement with a change that's actually appealing to the eye!)

One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread yet: Did you know that erect nipples are a surefire way of confirming that your wife or girlfriend has in fact had an orgasm? If she climaxes but her nipples are not hard as rocks, then she's faking it. True story!


Quigster


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## LainyLove22

I made the mistake once not putting on a bra to do a quick errand and never again !!!!

As hard as I tried my nappies became a little erect for whatever reason and I had every guy staring at me !!???


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## Faithful Wife

Quigster said:


> One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread yet: Did you know that erect nipples are a surefire way of confirming that your wife or girlfriend has in fact had an orgasm? If she climaxes but her nipples are not hard as rocks, then she's faking it.


As Personal pointed out, no, this is not a 100% true thing for 100% of all women. I've had O's without nipples getting hard. And nipples DO get hard at various other stages of having sex, so a woman could easily get away with faking an O with her nipples being hard at the same time (thus, it is not a guarantee she isn't faking).

Nipples are not like a penis. As much as a lot of guys want to think they are.


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## Anon Pink

I have never noticed whether my nipples are erect during an orgasm. Come to think of it, I've never noticed much of anything during an orgasm.

However, yesterday my H and I were in the pool having sex on a raft and just as I was orgasming he pushed me under water unintentionally. I was getting too loud and he didn't want the neighbors to hear so he covered my mouth which pushed my head under water. I did notice that.


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## Faithful Wife

:surprise:

That doesn't sound fun to me.


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## Faithful Wife

Anon Pink said:


> I have never noticed whether my nipples are erect during an orgasm. Come to think of it, I've never noticed much of anything during an orgasm.


You mean you're never touching them or having them touched? Wouldn't you notice it then? :laugh:


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## Anon Pink

Faithful Wife said:


> You mean you're never touching them or having them touched? Wouldn't you notice it then? :laugh:


If I'm touching them they are erect. :grin2:


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## Quigster

Faithful Wife said:


> As Personal pointed out, no, this is not a 100% true thing for 100% of all women.


You mean the authors of "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)" are LYING to me?!

Great, now I have to reevaluate everything I thought I knew about sex.


Quigster (Tab A goes into Slot B... or DOES IT?! Dun dun DUN!)


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## Faithful Wife

Quigster said:


> You mean the authors of "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)" are LYING to me?!
> 
> Great, now I have to reevaluate everything I thought I knew about sex.
> 
> 
> Quigster (Tab A goes into Slot B... or DOES IT?! Dun dun DUN!)


:laugh:

Yeah, I remember that part in that book, too.

I've had orgasms since before I had nipples that even CAN get hard. And I read that book when I was very young (found it in my step-mother's drawer), and upon reading that part I remember thinking "Huh?"

Perhaps nipples are highly likely to get hard during an O, but it is not a 100% thing for me (even now).

Whereas, they do get hard from even the lightest, accidental touch or bump up against anything. So it is kind of hard to tell what has caused them to be hard during sexual activity, since there is usually a lot of body parts bumping against each other....and sometimes they are being directly stimulated, not just a brush touch.


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## gallebom

convert said:


> I am googling like crazy to find one for my wife.
> 
> 
> the only thing, so far, I can find:
> Amazon.com: Bra with Open Nipple in One Size and Plus Size in Black, Red or White: Adult Exotic Bras: Clothing
> 
> 
> 
> I found these:
> Naughty Nipples and Fake Nipples for Breast Forms at TheBreastFormStore.Com - Your Source for Breastforms, Wigs, Bras, Lingerie, Corsets, Shoes and more for Crossdressers and Transgenders


Hopping around on the web, I found something similar and interesting about half way down this page. Cherry Popper [AV2] - $260.00 : Feminization.us!, The Art of Crossdressing


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