# Blind or selfish?



## TrishaC. (Aug 8, 2014)

Hello I'm new to this forum. I appreciate any help or advice. I've been married for a little over 1 year. My husband and I are 26 and 29. It has been my decision to keep our finances separate. We both handle our own bills and have good jobs. He has more money going out so I usually buy groceries, and house hold items. I always go above and beyond to make sure he has dinner, clean clothes and try my best to make his life run smoothly. We use my vehicle every weekend for towing when we go out of town for our PWC racing. I flip the 80.00 dollar bill for gas. 

I will cut to the chase now, recently my AC in my truck hasn't been working so I asked him if I could take his car to get groceries and he said "no" and his explanation was he didn't want to pay for the gas it takes for me to go to the store. This left me speechless and hurt. I don't know how to bring this up to him tomorrow in a polite way seeing how I have been brewing on this all night. I spend time and money on him without ever expecting anything. Am I wrong for being hurt over this?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

He's blind and selfish.

This is the problem with separate finances in marriage. There is no "US" in the equation.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He's blind and selfish.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem with separate finances in marriage. There is no "US" in the equation.



Could not agree more. I'm sure you had what were logical reasons for being married but such separate finances but you are living in the financial realm like roommates, not a married couple and it is spilling over into other areas like his and her cars. You should review why you are married but living this way.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Well, he is being selfish.
Or, maybe he feels he is getting screwed somehow and is making an issue of it.
But the set up of separate finances is certainly a contributing factor.
Why are you doing separate finances?
Ultimately trust is very important in a marriage, and combining finances is a sign of trust.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Total dlck move on his part.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon TrishaC
I agree with the others, he is not being reasonable. 

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I don't think keeping money separate is a good idea. It creates a "mine" vs "yours" attitude.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

One other thing to point out...while in the short term, keeping your finances separate makes for a "mine" and "yours" division, in the event that you ever divorce, all the money that the two of you earned/saved over the course of the marriage is generally "ours", and gets divided that way. Of course, that depends somewhat on where you live, prior agreements and other factors. 

So, while you get some benefit by keeping finance separate, in the long run, it may not matter much.

Oh, and yes, he was a jerk when he wouldn't let you use his car. What kind of marriage is this?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

He's a blind selfish ass. Tell him I said so.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Also, take the opportunity to show him the consequence of his action, by not having fresh groceries - unless he wants to make his own meals until the truck is repaired or he lets you use the car, nothing but leftovers and stale pantry crumbs for him. Take yourself out for your own meals. and if your truck isn't in the shop just roll the windows down for now so you don't have to rely on him.

Then when he is ready, explain how marriage is about two people helping each other meet their own needs so that life is better for both, and that you want to be appreciated for the meals you cook and groceries you buy.


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## TrishaC. (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your help. I need to evaluate why I want to keep finances separate.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why did you request that before? Why should he lend you his car, if you have one if your own? 

I think he's being an asshat, but you both contributed to this whole "his/hers" mentality, instead of "ours". Heck, I'm not even living with my GF yet, and she's got keys (and access) to my car and apartment. Marriage is a partnership. Otherwise you might as well just be roommates. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PBear said:


> Why should he lend you his car, if you have one if your own?


Because hers needs to go in for repairs. And she want to go to the store to buy groceries for both of them.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I don't think you separate finances is the problem. I think you paying for things and not speaking up is the problem.

how about sitting down together with your pay stubs and making a budget and actually seeing where everything is going.

if he refuses to be fair with splitting the bills then decision time and most likely you will be grateful you did not combine your finances because it will be easier to kick him to the curb.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Because hers needs to go in for repairs. And she want to go to the store to buy groceries for both of them.


Her car, her money, her problem. She wanted to keep things separate. So she should be paying for getting the AC fixed out of her budget. If she chooses not to do that... Plus it's not that her car doesn't work. Apparently it drives fine. It's just a little toasty.

C


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What if this isn't about money or gas? Maybe he doesn't want you in his car because there's something in there he'd prefer you not see. If he's shown similarly stingy traits frequently in the past, then it's probably about the money and he's what others have described him. If he's usually indifferent or maybe even generous about money, I'd be wondering what was in the car. Even if there is something in there, it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Could be a surprise for you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

TrishaC. said:


> I will cut to the chase now, recently my AC in my truck hasn't been working *so I asked him if I could take his car to get groceries and he said "no" and his explanation was he didn't want to pay for the gas it takes for me to go to the store.* This left me speechless and hurt. I don't know how to bring this up to him tomorrow in a polite way seeing how I have been brewing on this all night. I spend time and money on him without ever expecting anything. Am I wrong for being hurt over this?


I would feel like I was hit in the face with a response like that..* I am wondering HOW YOU RESPONDED ??*.. I could see me looking at him and saying.... "What?? ....Really??....are you kidding ?" and needing a little more so he could make himself out more of an Ass.. but truly, that response was unsettling... like you were a stranger or something trying to "use him".. it doesn't FIT... Even those who have separate finances, checking accounts, all of that, this would be outrageous to them too!

Have you seen this sort of attitude with others in the past.... is he "Mr. I count every penny" type or what? Was he having a really BAD day when he spoke this, and it was completely out of character, is he having money issues right now?

Just trying to make sense of it.. anything else in the relationship causing you red flags

Me & my H treated our money as "one" yrs before we married even (back then I had a full time job).... we just never gave it a second thought -whatever he or I needed.. it was there in our savings (for our future)... We always openly discussed big purchases -if we should or wait...even running the smaller ones past each other (depending)... just so we knew what was happening...


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## TrishaC. (Aug 8, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would feel like I was hit in the face with a response like that..* I am wondering HOW YOU RESPONDED ??*.. I could see me looking at him and saying.... "What?? ....Really??....are you kidding ?" and needing a little more so he could make himself out more of an Ass.. but truly, that response was unsettling... like you were a stranger or something trying to "use him".. it doesn't FIT... Even those who have separate finances, checking accounts, all of that, this would be outrageous to them too!
> 
> Have you seen this sort of attitude with others in the past.... is he "Mr. I count every penny" type or what? Was he having a really BAD day when he spoke this, and it was completely out of character, is he having money issues right now?
> 
> ...





I didn't know how to react so I grabbed my keys on the table and politely said, "oh ok, I will be back." I didn't say much for the rest of the day. We don't fight aloud if that makes sense. This situation made me feel embarrassed that I asked to use his car in the first place. When I asked it was more of me saying hey I'm taking your car where are the keys. I wasn't expecting him to say no. 

he counts pennies but only the ones he spends. He doesn't see the bigger picture of how I spend a lot more on him. I don't expect anything from him but a little appreciation wouldn't hurt. Our house just flooded Thursday so this issue has been put aside for the time being. I don't want to bring this up again and look like I just want to fight but this is a serious issue what will only get bigger if I don't bring it up again


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## luv2luv (Mar 28, 2013)

TrishaC. said:


> I didn't know how to react so I grabbed my keys on the table and politely said, "oh ok, I will be back." I didn't say much for the rest of the day. We don't fight aloud if that makes sense. This situation made me feel embarrassed that I asked to use his car in the first place. When I asked it was more of me saying hey I'm taking your car where are the keys. I wasn't expecting him to say no.
> 
> he counts pennies but only the ones he spends. He doesn't see the bigger picture of how I spend a lot more on him. I don't expect anything from him but a little appreciation wouldn't hurt. Our house just flooded Thursday so this issue has been put aside for the time being. I don't want to bring this up again and look like I just want to fight but this is a serious issue what will only get bigger if I don't bring it up again


Oh I have second hand embarrassment from your description. I can just imagine that it was a courtesy ask because you didn't think your husband would try to chisel you on gas for groceries for the two of you. I am sorry this was a thing but you should definitely address it with him, lest it become something you resent about him later on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## slimstickums (Aug 14, 2014)

Marriage is a team sport and having separate finances is not being a team. What if he needed an operation but didn't have the money.


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

I don't know whether there are issues attached to keeping finances separate - it isn't something I've thought much about, and my SO and I share finances (which has its own set of issues because we both spend too much money, but we work on that all the time). 

The main issue here is that you're very clearly not acting as a team that's looking out for each other. Part of this is your SO not letting you use his car when you had a reason you needed it. I mean, there are ways around that specific issue - you could offer to fill it up after or something - but also it doesn't sound like he gave you any reason other than the cost, which is an easily resolved issue. 

So are you guys just roommates, pretty much? Or are you building a life together? Because if you're building a life, that means looking out for your teammate and filling in the gaps when you're needed.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Lon said:


> Also, take the opportunity to show him the consequence of his action, by not having fresh groceries - unless he wants to make his own meals until the truck is repaired or he lets you use the car, nothing but leftovers and stale pantry crumbs for him. Take yourself out for your own meals. and if your truck isn't in the shop just roll the windows down for now so you don't have to rely on him.
> 
> Then when he is ready, explain how marriage is about two people helping each other meet their own needs so that life is better for both, and that you want to be appreciated for the meals you cook and groceries you buy.


Right now he is both selfish and blind, but this could change. Ya'll haven't been married very long. I can relate since my husband and I had similar difficulties with finances early on. It took quite some time and a lot of discussion and action for us to get on the same page. 

I strongly agree with Lon's advice above. For many of us, words don't always get the point across. I believe you must talk to him, but for him to get the point there needs to be some action on your end as well.

Some ideas: 
Let him know that you were really taken aback by his refusal to let you use his truck because he didn't want to use his gas. You are happy to pay for things that benefit the both of you. His refusal hurt, and it felt to you that he was using his money to benefit him and was not comfortable helping you out. It felt like he didn't have your back even on a minor issue.

At this point, he might just tell you that he was having a bad day, he didn't really mean it, etc. But if not, go to the next step.

Let him know that you would prefer to have more of a team-oriented financial plan, but that you would respect his financial boundaries/preferences where you are each truly financially independent.

As such, you would need to make some changes, so that you both are working closer to 50/50.

You don't have to go overboard, but protect yourself. Work out a budget for groceries, and if you are cooking and cleaning, he pays 2/3rds (since you are providing labor.) If you have the receipts from last week's grocery shopping, provide it to him, with the total multiplied by .66 and let him know that is his fair share (50/50 if the shopping, cooking, and cleaning was 50/50.) If he is not willing to do this, then cook for yourself only. 

If you end up cooking for yourself, let him know every so often that this is not really how you'd like to do it, and you are willing to re-visit it if he wants to make some changes to the plan. 

You might also negotiate cleaning/household chores so that there is more equal ownership.

I'd still ask for help with things like the truck to give the opportunity for change. If he refuses just let him know that you are hurt by the refusal and that would prefer it if you could count on him to help you out. But that you have a back-up plan (and always have a back-up plan!).

You don't have to be mean about it. *But if you don't stand up for yourself and respect yourself and your contribution now, why would he respect you and your contribution?* 

This sounds like a lot of work, but it is worth it. Wrestle with these things now, early on, so you can both get to a place where you are both happy and feel good about your relationship, finances, roles, etc. It probably won't even take that long. When/If he buys in, I do recommend merging finances. If both partners are on the same page, you are financially stronger together.

LONG ADDITION ON HOW WE GOT ON THE SAME PAGE:

For us, my DH came into the marriage accustomed to making independent decisions about his money. As long as he had the money in his account, he didn't think twice about buying a new motorcycle, a new car, $400 work boots, etc. When we mingled our finances, shortly before we got married, he felt extremely smothered and controlled when I got distressed over his impromptu purchases. I hated not being able to know and track expenses going out vs money coming in and wanted to be informed. I was also alarmed by how little he thought about making "big purchases" (he didn't consider them big purchases, more like car/boots are necessities.)

I spent the first 2-3 years just basically simmering about the financial stuff and dreaming about going back to separate accounts. I would talk to him about it and we tried a few things, but no changes ever stuck. He felt that even something simple like an "allowance" was a false restriction, since he knew we had more money than our "allowance" and we never got to an agreement about it. 

Somewhere in year 3, I realized that in general,my DH were often talking past each other and not actually getting what the other was saying. At this point, I finally realized that actions were needed as well as words. This applied to both of us.

Since finances at that point were my biggest concern, I started adding some actions to try to shake things up.

We had already agreed on how much we wanted in saving for an 'emergency fund', a general strategy for paying off credit cards, and we agreed that we would work weekly with how much was left (since he gets paid weekly.)

While we had agreement on paper, there was very low compliance in real life. Thus, I was frequently moving funds from savings to checking, putting off bigger credit card payments, etc.

I decided to act. If he went and made big purchases, I treated myself to a haircut/mani/pedi at a nice salon, or made a nice yarn purchase (I am a knitter and good yarn is not cheap!), went out and bought some cool (and unnecessary) item for our son. I made sure to do something for me or our son, that I enjoyed, to keep my resentment down.

As a result of this, our checking would get low. My DH is not at all interested in looking at our bank accounts, so he would not realize that there were only a few dollars in the account. DH would get frustrated, and embarrassed when he would get a Card Declined when he tried to buy gas or coffee or lunch. He would pull out his credit card and put it on credit. We would pay off the credit card, immediately, and this left even less money in the account for the following week.

He would come home saying, "What is going on??? I got another "Card Declined" at the grocery store!"

I let him know that I also spent some money, just as he had and that was why his card was refused, we'd hit an overdraft. 

I suggested that we could avoid that by checking in with each other about purchases. If he wasn't comfortable checking in about purchases, then I'd work with that, but that I would enjoy some nice things, too. He couldn't count on only his purchases affecting our finances. 

I let him know that I saw a better win-win if we both checked in and worked out when we'd buy our things, or even IF we'd buy our things. I could work with him so that we were able to buy things we each wanted and would not feel restricted; I just needed to have a better handle on the when and how much. I would not tell him "No", as he was a grown man, but I would negotiate when. 

I also asked him for his own ideas, if he had another thought or strategy on how we could handle this. He didn't have any other ideas, and agreed that simply checking in and keeping a better eye on the accounts was a good solution.

He stopped making big purchases without talking to me about it first. He didn't say "you win!" or even appear to think of it that way, he just said, "Hey, my work boots are dying. Do we have enough in the account this week for a pair of new boots?" We would work out a time very soon for his new boots.

He still had no interest in checking the bank accounts, but he'd ask me to look and provide input.

I also stopped making my own impromptu purchases, since they aren't my thing anyway. Suddenly, we had enough in our account and the overdrafts stopped. He stopped holding his breath if he went to fill up his truck.

He was able to get the things he wanted and not have to worry about overdrawing the account. He still didn't have to go online and look at what was in the accounts. I felt better about my ability to track incoming/outgoing expenses and I am fine with being the main Bank Account person. 

We both actually experienced improvement, and we both experienced the win-win. This is how we finally got on the same page. 

We still have differences, but we are able to discuss finances and negotiate much, much better. He is not worried about hearing "NO!" and I am more trusting that I wont be blindsided by big purchases.

It took about 8 months for change to fully occur and hold. It was just a process for us of truly joining forces and working together for the benefit of us both.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The biggest problem I see in new (less than 20 years) marriages is that people think their partner will have their interests at heart. But in reality, each of us goes into a marriage mainly for one reason - to give US something, and not to give our partner something. We go into a marriage thinking the other person will heal us or treat us really well or stroke our ego or whatever...while the OTHER person is doing the exact same thing.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks, InTheory.

It was a gamble, but it was a calculated risk on my part. I felt financially secure enough to take the gamble- I was not really comfortable but I was pretty sure we wouldn't go bankrupt. This allowed me to spend more than I normally would on things that usually are rare treats, and it also helped me to let go of the reigns and just sit there and take it as bank overages came in. That part was also very annoying. Thankfully we use a small community bank, and the overage fees are "small" at $7 each, vs. $25 or $35 at bigger banks. It took probably about 20 or so overages before the behavior started changing, and I could take $140 in fees vs $700 in fees at a different bank.


I hope the OP is doing well and comes back to update us. The reason I posted was because her story resonated with me. My husband is not a bad guy. He just has completely different views on finances and they are no better or worse on their own than mine. Her husband has his own views and he is entitled to them. It doesn't mean they can't change, though.

Reading back my post sounds manipulative. It is true that I was consciously making actions in the hope that my DH would change. However, in my mind I just accepted how things were. He was going to spend it how he wanted, and that is his right as a grown man.

I didn't need to put so much in, though. I didn't need to try to do all the financial tracking, the juggling of checking-to-savings and back again. I definitely didn't need to be frugal in an attempt to get our savings up while he was spending without worry; and most of all, I didn't need to stress myself out over it, or harm our relationship, by my own seething and feeling resentful.

Instead, I changed my ways. I decided to set the situation to ensure that I was mostly comfortable (e.g. wasn't going to bankrupt us) with my emergency fund, then I joined him. I adapted his financial outlook and spending methods.

It turns out that I was right: his way wasn't sustainable. It was my own juggling and frugality that made it SEEM sustainable. 
I was doing much more work worrying and saving and sacrificing for our financial well-being than he was. I was enabling him to live that lifestyle.

Once I stopped trying to make sure everything OK and let that financial method play out it's natural consequences, it was only common sense to change things up. My DH has never indicated that the things I "won" this battle, it is not even a battle or argument. It is simply "this is what we do now to make sure we are covered."

Yes, I "got my way" but you know- my DH was also right in that we could spend more than I was initially comfortable with and still do OK. So we found our middle there.

This is why I encourage the OP to do the same. Talk a bit more and watch his actions. There is no point in fighting. If he really wants very independent finances, then do so and give him the opportunity to see what it looks like and what happens when both parties are equal and independent, vs working together and interdependent.

It will still be hard for her, no doubt. It was hard for me to let really stupid fees accrue. And, I also got to be embarrassed several times at the grocery store; I wasn't the only at the mercy of the other spouse's impromptu spending when the account was low. 

But it was allowing the consequences for both of us to occur that brought reality into focus, and we were able to adjust.

I don't know what my next step would have been if my husband hadn't gotten onto the same page with me. Maybe separate finances. Maybe if he really was out of control, possible separation between the two of us, I don't know. Finances are important. 

Regardless, to me it is a much better calculated risk to roll the dice now, find out the reality now, vs 5 years, 10 years, kids, 401k- when time make the options more difficult.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

He's being a selfish d!ck. We have separate finances, mainly because this is marriage number two for both of us and we both came in with kids. Don't want to thread-jack but it was easiest for us.

That being said we don't bean count. He pays the mortgage, his car payment, and a couple of little things and I pay everything else; it's pretty equitable. He knows what I have and I know what he has. Even though I buy groceries he'll still stop and pick things up. He can take my car any time he wants and I will take his sometimes. If he's buying something and I throw something in he doesn't care, and likewise if I'm buying something and he throws something in I don't care. You have a bean counting situation with your husband and that's a problem. Or as unbelievable pointed out maybe there's something in his car he doesn't want you to see.

I think once my kids are grown and out (his is already out) we'll combine everything. We have the same philosophies regarding money and even though we're separate we do actually view everything as household money. I know it's hard for many to understand but it works for us. That doesn't sound like what you have.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

slimstickums said:


> Marriage is a team sport and having separate finances is not being a team. What if he needed an operation but didn't have the money.


Then his wife will pay. It's a bad example. Separate finances apply when both are working and can be independent.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Personally I agree with keeping finances separate. It's not just about preparing for eventual divorce. Yes that can happen but people can get sick or die as well. Having your own credit rating and savings will be important at times like this. 

I like the model of each partner having their own accounts as well as holding a joint account that is used for family expenses.

Both sides agree how much will be contributed by each to the joint account. This is used for mortgage, groceries, home repairs etc. Obviously there will need to be regular discussion about this account to ensure what is being deposited is sufficient to pay the bills and ensure it doesn't inadvertantly go overdraft from both parties issuing large payments simultaneously. 

Individual accounts are maintained to provide each partner funds to make personal purchases without having to 'get permission' from the other.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PBear said:


> Her car, her money, her problem. She wanted to keep things separate. So she should be paying for getting the AC fixed out of her budget. If she chooses not to do that... Plus it's not that her car doesn't work. Apparently it drives fine. It's just a little toasty.
> 
> C


But, but, he eats the food she buys with her own money. This guy just cut off his nose to spite his face.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> But, but, he eats the food she buys with her own money. This guy just cut off his nose to spite his face.


Her car still worked fine. Many of us grew up successfully in vehicles without AC. Fixing it is her responsibility, and apparently wasn't a priority for her. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PBear said:


> Her car still worked fine. Many of us grew up successfully in vehicles without AC. Fixing it is her responsibility, and apparently wasn't a priority for her.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eating is his responsibility and apparently wasn't a priority for him. Let him go without.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> Eating is his responsibility and apparently wasn't a priority for him. Let him go without.


That was definitely an option for her, to go and get HER groceries. And he can go get his own. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiredFamilyGuy (Jan 18, 2014)

If you go into it with a 'his and hers' attitude then why be surprised if the other person doesn't want to share when they don't feel like it. She decided she didn't feel like combining finances - it was not a joint decision. Now she feels bummed that he too can make arbitrary decisions that she doesn't like. Childish - but not all down to him, here. 

The issue seems to be lack of trust both ways.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

Read the Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And then read Rich Dad Poor Dad.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

Also a good read tunera


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