# Impossible to keep quiet and wait



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

My man is behaving very suspiciously. I believe he is in contact again with his ex who he had an affair with. I believe be is making plans and I am finding it impossible to be patient and wait. The only reason I want to wait is because I believe it may be nxt week that is arranged, and it will give me the conviction to finish and stay finished. He has already lied again, something that is not major but a lie all the same. And he has done very light lifting since DD last year, while I have done the heavy stuff. So I am ready (due to his refusal to discuss anything about it from June, a decision he made in April/May, and due to his lie) to finish for good, but I want to wait and see what happens next week so it means my finishing won't be lured back to starting again. Help! How does someone who deals with issues as they arise, is very honest, and finds it impossible to be patient on something so big, find the way to not fall out and pretend all is fine? Aaargh!


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## sick. (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm in a similar kind of boat as you, just sitting around waiting for the next slip up so I can shove all the concrete evidence and divorce papers right in his effing face.

So much anger, so much pretending to be stupid...

I'm so sorry about your partner.... it's a real shame. I wish you the best of luck and all the courage you need to do what's best for yourself.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

You have to dig DEEP. You have to do this the hard way b/c its what he is forcing you to do. My H did it too. I had to learn everything on my own. Had to read email(in real time), VAR him and get 'inside' help from his coworkers. All the while with a smile for the most part. IF I hadnt done that he had already proven he'd lie and deceive me to the end without proof. Once I put it on the table in front of him(after mos of spying) he couldnt deny it and then and only then could I have the upper hand so to speak. He couldnt deny what was in his own voice or in his own email. 

It was the HARDEST thing I have EVER done- but it was my ONLY option. Its your ONLY option it seems. BUCKLE DOWN and be strong and determined to get to the truth no matter what is required of you.

Good luck


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## Bentley'sMom (Jul 10, 2012)

Why are you waiting in limbo? Trust has gone because of the first affair. If you even have an inkling he is up to his old tricks, get talking to a lawyer. It's not worth the pain. You don't need a reason to file, most states are no fault and you can always stop it if he commits to you with openess and transparency. I do want people's marriages to work, and see some come back after affairs but for me, once an affair has happened, trust has gone and it's better to get out to avoid further pain, especially if it looks like it's happening again. Be strong, don't be a victim again!


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Whilst there is a good reason to divorce already, I can see why OP wants to wait.

She wants the additional 'absolutes' of infidelity to give her the right mindset and emotions to follow through. For whatever reason she knows if she calls time now, there will be enough doubt to plague her going forward

I just suggest distraction and keeping busy, pamper yourself even - (you certainly deserve it )until you get to that point of no return


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thankyou for all your replies. Sick, I hope it comes soon for you and yes, shove that in their effing face along with a brick! Canttrustyou thanks, it sounds hell, it is hell, I hope you are happier now. It sounds very similar to my situation with the lying right to the bitter end. Only with the evidence there and undeniable will it stop being denied. Bentleys mom, YellowRoses is absolutely correct. It is about knowing enough that there is NO doubt left at all.

The reason I am still with him is due to his believability in it not happening again, his sorrow at it happening in the first place (or just at me finding out!), and me wanting it to work with the most loving and loveable man I have ever met, the one I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. The one I have loved more than any other man in my life. I realise it is all a facade, and I need to let the relationship go. But I also need to be in a place of conviction, a place of unwavering desire to never have him back. The love is strong, and so I need the conviction of knowing he continues to cheat to be strong also. Unquestionable. Because I refuse to remain in a relationship like that. This is hell...it really is.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Remains you are exactly where I am, trying to achieve the mindset to give up for good.

Its like being married to 2 different people isn't it ? The lying, devious, reckless, selfish, greedy, spoilt loser of a bar steward and the loving, providing, dad and husband.

Mine just has flings not serious relationships so there is noone to even expose it to. He was on his second chance and has pulled the rug so far from under us, none of us can stand up

I went into it for life - f*ck know what he meant when he said his vows. Tempting to look back and see if he looked like the liar he is on our wedding pics

God help us -we need it


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

at the point of time in my "proceedings" where you guys are, it was difficult to imagine what it would be like afterwards. It was hard to believe the posts about things getting better and if happiness would be found in moving on. 
I am one year after my divorce, and despite the hiccups due to the ex and involvement required becuase of the kid, things are alright. Pretty darn okay, and getting better. 
I just wanted to offer that, because for me it was difficult to know how things were going to be, how I was going to be after eighteen years with the same woman, and a little girl as well.
Trust yourself, you are all strong.


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## Bentley'sMom (Jul 10, 2012)

I understand and feel for you all, this is possibly the worst thing to ever happen to me, too. I also married a different person (and mine is a devious narcissist too so I really did marry a fake). I had 12 years of lies and subtle put downs and am finally seeing him for what he is - yet I'm the one who is destroyed!

Remains, I think what I was getting at is prepare for the worst and then at least you are prepared! You gave him a second chance and that is commendable. If he wastes his chance, it's all his fault and you are the better person. I hope you get closure one way or the other. You too Yellow Roses. Take care of yourselves....


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

If you have questions on evidence gathering please in my signature is a link to an evidence gathering thread. Please read through there. There is valuable advice and if anything is too technical you can pm me and I will help you through it. Do it just so you don't feel like your just waiting around.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

badbane said:


> If you have questions on evidence gathering please in my signature is a link to an evidence gathering thread. Please read through there. There is valuable advice and if anything is too technical you can pm me and I will help you through it. Do it just so you don't feel like your just waiting around.


Good advice! 









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. They are warmly received and I am grateful for them. 

Update....so much happens in just a few days. 

I am sorry it is long, I am not skilled at summarising and feel necessary to put background in in order to put into context. Sorry if it comes out long winded, I don't mean for that, just don't know how to do it any other way. And the reasons are due to needing informed advice. Desperately. And wanting to vent... 

Wednesday, when I 1st posted, I didn't really hold it together. The evidence I found which pointed to me thinking he was 1. continuing to be a liar to me & 2. planning was:
1. I managed to finally speak to his mum. She was a great support at the beginning when it all came out back in May 2011. He stopped talking to me in June, we went in circular patterns of me needing to talk, bringing it up, him refusing to talk, us falling out, I would miss him, he would text, I would relent, and we would just fall back into being together again but issues still there so I would have to talk soon after we made up, or I would tell him no way I am not getting back with you unless you talk with me, he would agree to talk, and things would be ok again for a while. His mum began to blame me for prolonging the problems & the agony, he admitted one day that he handled it all very badly and he prolonged the problems. I asked him to call his mum up and tell her that, as I thought it unfair she thought that of me. He did. I left him in private to do so, that was about 4-6 months ago.... She called me up not long ago after a visit and said something that pointed to my personal issues and that makes sense as to why I have reacted to his infidelty as I have (it took me looking online last Nov for articles in how to recover and coming to this forum to realise there was everything normal about my reaction and nothing helpful about his. He blamed me for bringing up the issue, wanting to talk, having difficulty trusting him. He said I needed to just get over it, and so did she). What makes it worse of her blaming me is that she was a couples counsellor! Anyway, I called her up to talk with her because I was hurt she still had this opinion of me, blaming my childhood crap, on the way I have dealt with this. Especially after he had called her too, to explain his crap way of dealing with our problems and not helping me get over it. 

She told me she never remembered any such conversation with him! This happened on the Weds I posted above.

2. I asked him last Weds about the conversation we had had in which he agreed he dealt with all badly...so why continue by refusals to talk? I then asked him about the conversation with his mum...what he'd said, what was her reaction? I got 'we've spoke about this, u know what I said, I can't remember exactly'. I pushed for an answer of some substance, that he had told me he'd spoke to her but nothing of any great detail was relayed to me, that its weird as her reaction of still seeming to blame me. I asked him, knowing the answer, so I could see him lie, so I could see his behaviour when he lies.

He got angry, wouldn't talk, got defensive and walked. This was just like all his other reactions since June last year, and confirmed totally, without question, that our while relationship was a lie and based on lies.

3. Last Weds, before I brought up the phone conversation, he was telling me why he had been so stressed at me recently. A point to bear in mind, he is not open, he is not a 'talker' and avoids any deep talk at all costs. I ask him what is wrong, he tells me nothing. I say I know something is up, he shouts at me 'NOTHING!' and I am taken right back to the time of his affair where I continually got that reaction. So, him bringing up this 'talk' was not like him. BUT...as he was telling me, 'it was stress at work' (which o know there is stress there) his hands were shaking with nervousness. Everytime I have brought up a conversation in the past about 'that' he shakes with nervousness. I don't know if this is because he is lying or just finding it very difficult to talk. BUT...why would he shake nervously while telling me about stress at work?

4. I have his passwords etc and some time ago I activated web history on his Google account. I had looked a few times and it saved nothing. Then I saw that it seemed to just save searches on maps. I looked on Weds. The idea just popped into my head. All his Google searches were in there from beg of July. Over 3 days just before his pay day there was a search for a classy shoe company, tickets for concerts, last minute.com search for last minute flights, and lastly restaurants. This is what made me think he was planning something. That along with his snappy attitude to me for the last couple of weeks. 

Anyway, I then realised that the shoes company he looked up as he saw a pair in a charity shop and was going to buy them and sell on ebay. The concert dates and tickets could have been his daughter wanting to look for something, I don't know about the restaurants, though he and his daughter did eat out that day so it could have been that, but 'places to eat' would have been a more appropriate search for them that day, and the flights, goodness knows. Maybe just browsing.

The other thing I found was lots of porn searches, about 13 seperate occasions over a 12 day period. BUT...he has a block on his phone on over 18 sites. He can only look at porn with wi fi. Which he promptly did at my house when I went out out for a few hours yesterday. He has no wi fi at his house! 

So, I am now in the process of trying to find out if he removed the block over that 12 day period (I have access to his phone bill), and if he did not, how did he access the porn? Some of the searches are at 6am when he wakes up for work (on the days I am not there). 

I have avoided getting spyware/keylogger and downloading onto his phone up to now as it is very expensive, and I have not wanted to spend that money due to not thinking I would stay with him, what's the point? But here I am, months later, still with him. I need that extra tangible something to ditch him and not be lured back. I am very worried about getting a web site/keylogger/sms tracker for his phone. Does it use up lots of data? Does it drain the battery? He will surely find out if it does. 

Please, opinions on the issues above would be gratefully received. And any answers regarding the keylogger gratefully received. 

And finally, what is your opinion on men and porn? I find it distasteful but realise the reality of it....but in my opinion the rate at which he has been accessing it recently I find is excessive. I think using it to that extent creates a negative influence on a relationship, it is causing him to look outside instead of in, in the fact that his desire is to watch that rather than to do things with me (he has always been a very sexual man but I feel my desire for him has always been greater than his for me and he turns me down here and there. I wouldn't see it as a major problem on its own, but with the porn it puts a different slant on things. And if he is so sexual, why not overly so with me? He says he desires me, acts like he does mostly, sometimes not and I feel neglected). What are your thoughts on porn?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

There are 5 reasons why I would care about men and porn:

1. does it directly impact our sexual life? If reducing his use of porn (what I really mean is, masturbating to porn) is going to have a direct impact on how often we have sex, then, I would respectfully ask the man in my life to not look at porn.

2. does he waste money on porn? I wouldn't say that he should only consume free porn, but over a certain dollar amount, that's money that we should spend some other way. Of course, how much is okay could be a touchy issue

3. does he consume really bizarre porn? as in, very violent, involving animals, etc.? That would be a big issue for me. Goes more to the type of porn being viewed.

4. does the porn abuse the participants? This is a tough one because you can never really know if the women involved are of legal age, are enslaved, are being videotaped without their knowledge and money being made without their consent, etc. This one is hard. Based on this one, some women have a zero-porn tolerance. That is not me, although it means *I* don't consume porn for this reason although I otherwise might/would.

5. does viewing porn take up too much time? True porn addicts are said to watch about 10 to 12 hours per week. That's a full-time hobby. Some people are very tolerant of 'full-time hobbies.' Others, not so much.

---------------------------------------

For me, the issue wouldn't be porn (at least based on what you've said). It would be based on the lack of connection. Is he willing to share himself fully with me? Is he going to let me peer into his thoughts, dreams, fears, hopes? If he isn't, that is not a marriage to me.

That lack of connection would characterize the entire time my husband was in his affair. Once he got out of it, suddenly his attitude, demeanor, etc. entirely changed and he opened up to me. He answers my questions without defensiveness (I usually preface questions with a "I'm going to ask you something" so he can mentally prepare, this keeps down the emotional explosions). He just feels like "himself," the person I married.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Badbane, I have noted what you said BTW. And I noticed your thread as soon as you started it. It is a shame it couldn't be split into sections because the longer it gets the more difficult it is to read and find things of relevance to your own situation. I would appreciate your input re keylogger/web logger for Android phones. Thanks.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Shooboomafoo said:


> at the point of time in my "proceedings" where you guys are, it was difficult to imagine what it would be like afterwards. It was hard to believe the posts about things getting better and if happiness would be found in moving on.
> I am one year after my divorce, and despite the hiccups due to the ex and involvement required becuase of the kid, things are alright. Pretty darn okay, and getting better.
> I just wanted to offer that, because for me it was difficult to know how things were going to be, how I was going to be after eighteen years with the same woman, and a little girl as well.
> Trust yourself, you are all strong.


Really glad to hear this shaboomafoo - I know you were suffering big time back then.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Remains said:


> Badbane, I have noted what you said BTW. And I noticed your thread as soon as you started it. It is a shame it couldn't be split into sections because the longer it gets the more difficult it is to read and find things of relevance to your own situation. I would appreciate your input re keylogger/web logger for Android phones. Thanks.


I have thought about it only problem with specific threads is they die out. There are tons of these but they are 10 pages back. Starting a thread that was broad seemed to be the only way. Feel free to post in there. As I can point you to a specific entry if necessary.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Remains said:


> She told me she never remembered any such conversation with him! This happened on the Weds I posted above.
> 
> 2. I asked him last Weds about the conversation we had had in which he agreed he dealt with all badly...so why continue by refusals to talk? I then asked him about the conversation with his mum...what he'd said, what was her reaction? I got 'we've spoke about this, u know what I said, I can't remember exactly'. I pushed for an answer of some substance, that he had told me he'd spoke to her but nothing of any great detail was relayed to me, that its weird as her reaction of still seeming to blame me. I asked him, knowing the answer, so I could see him lie, so I could see his behaviour when he lies.
> 
> He got angry, wouldn't talk, got defensive and walked. This was just like all his other reactions since June last year, and confirmed totally, without question, that our while relationship was a lie and based on lies.


EDIT to my post...This was a major omission...

He came over at my request on Thursday lunchtime, he was at work and I was not. I was convinced he was planning something he shouldn't be, there was nothing in his phone...ever...and then I remembered his work phone. I wanted to look while he had no chance of deleting, and as he was at work I could maybe catch him off-guard. There was nothing!...anyway...

I looked through his personal phone too, I did not care, totally adamant that our whole relationship was a lie, and when he was being what I deemed ridiculous in the things that he was saying regarding his actions of the previous day, the Wednesday evening, his anger, his defensiveness, his stomping off, I said to him I knew he had not had that conversation with his mum. That she remembers no such conversation. He said he had. I reminded him that if he had she would remember a conversation like that with him, he is a closed person and he does not call her for chit chat. If he called her to offer her the information that he had dealt with our situation badly and he was the cause of the prolonging of my agony and our problems, then she would definitely remember that!! (these were pretty much her words to me when she said she remembers no such conversation, that she would remember if he had called to say that as he ony really rings when he wants something, and we had a conversation about the fact he is not very open) It would be like forgetting the time that black snow fell instead of white, and the ground being covered in a blanket of black snow! You would not forget!

He said he had called her, and immediately got his phone out, put it on speaker phone, and called her! He asked about the conversation and did she remember it...she said yes!!!

He then put me on the phone, I apologised about the having to call and drag her into it and said it came from her saying to me the previous day that she did not remember. Obviously I then presumed he had lied to me about ever calling her. Her answer was that she didn't want to talk about the details of the conversation to me. She didn't want to discuss what had been said with him, to me. I said I didn't want to know the details, I only asked if he had called her and the reason I asked was that she still seemed to be under the impression that I was at fault for prolonging. She then went on to blame her forgetting it due to her age. Those 2 things kind of contradict themselves as far as I am concerned. Either she lied to me because she didn't want to discuss details of their conversation with me, OR she totally forgot the conversation due to old age...surely not both??!!

(NB. On the previous day when his mum told me she doesn't remember that conversation, there seemed to be genuine surprise from her when I told her about him supposed to have called her, what prompted him to, and how it came about. Even though I had responded to her quite a few times before, saying to me pretty much, in not so many words, that I should just 'get over it and stop dragging it up', this time due to the way I explained it, his admission that he was dealing with it badly, she actually seemed to listen this time, and understand. We had a good chat. She even said that in the future with those gut feelings, as I had been correct in the past, that I should trust them if anything happens again. Compare this 'genuine surprise' with the reasons for 'not telling me she remembers the conversation' just the very next day!)

I now wonder what was actually said in that conversation, if indeed it happened, if he made out that I 'made' him call, I wanted him to call (which I did, but only due to his own admission) and really he thought I should just have 'got over it by now'.

So, another dilemma, if there was NO such conversation, did she call him to warn him that she had possibly dropped him in it (there was no record of a phone call in his call log, but then he could have deleted it) and then she agreed to say he had called if he needed to 'prove' it? I don't know if she would agree to lie for him or not, she seems a decent sort, but he is her son! If she had pre-warned him, that could explain his nervousness on the Wednesday. He knew I was being slightly distant, that something was up, and if he was pre warned he would know I would bring it up...because I do. I bring up anything that bothers me. 

Or, did he really actually call her? His reaction to me asking about it (when I was under the impression he had never had that conversation) told me he was lying about EVERYTHING! It was exactly the same as his past reactions to me wanting to talk. His reactions are of not wanting to discuss anything about all 'that', his anger at me for bringing it up, and we always fall out for a few days if I do bring it up. If this was his reaction to something that was real, that puts into question all I believe about his 'guilty' reactions to the 'issue' that I am no longer able to bring up. I believe his reactions are of hiding fairly important details, covering for his lies. Anger and refusing to discuss = lying about details and not wanting to be tripped up and caught out. 

Though, if he had been pre-warned, would he not have been prepared for that conversation coming on the Wednesday evening and just cut to the chase and called her to 'prove' it rather than anger, defensive, and stomping off? 

I will probably never know, but opinions on the situation are needed...please!. It is difficult to talk with friends now, I feel I have put a burden on my friendships by this issue and I know if I was my friend I would not want to hear about it any longer...gone on too long, just be done with it, save the heartache and move on. Either accept it or ditch him and stop moaning about these issues...that would be my reaction I think. And so here I am...


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> There are 5 reasons why I would care about men and porn:
> 
> 1. does it directly impact our sexual life? If reducing his use of porn (what I really mean is, masturbating to porn) is going to have a direct impact on how often we have sex, then, I would respectfully ask the man in my life to not look at porn.
> 
> ...


Thanks iheartlife. I don't believe he watches anything overtly 'bad', but I don't know. I cannot view what he has, only the fact that he has searched for it on google. And I will know each time he searches as he does not have a saved link and he deletes it out of his history. 

But...how is he watching it at his house if he has no access to wi fi? It makes me wonder is he at his house at all? But he must be...I cannot think where else he could possibly be, and I don't think I am being naive about this. He has his daughter (unless of course she has gone for a sleepover with friends and he hasn't told me, but I don't think this would be the case), and also, if he was at someone elses house, he would no way watch porn at 6-7am before work, not if he could have a fumble with an AP instead. I am intrigued as to how he has accessed it at home.

As for willing to share himself fully with me, i don't think I will ever have that. I have tried, but he is closed. And I am like you, I need that in a relationship, that is the basis of all love. Connection, desire, closeness, trust, security. But I feel an arm's length away from him. On occasions where he has 'talked' the closeness I feel afterwards is immense. The love immense. I tell him so. But he still refuses to make that a habit. Instead it is a forced situation, that I have forced upon him, that he has to endure. 

And like you, I always do and always have, brought 'it' up with 'can I ask you a question' or 'can we talk please'. But I still get the same reaction. Anger. Defensiveness. Walking out. I get the anger, it is my issue, it is my problem! But...I know that it is not!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

badbane said:


> I have thought about it only problem with specific threads is they die out. There are tons of these but they are 10 pages back. Starting a thread that was broad seemed to be the only way. Feel free to post in there. As I can point you to a specific entry if necessary.


Thanks Badbane, yes, I have realised that problem too. There really is no way around it is there!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Ok....another bloody update! 


yargh!


The subject of his 500 meg of data all being used up came up. He got a txt while I was with him from his mobile contract provider. I asked him what he been using it on. He said watching videos and stuff. I raised my eyebrows and asked what videos. He said news and stuff. Nb. He is a news junkie BTW. Reads up on it every morn. BUT....little does he know, I know different. His mobile contract goes from 2nd of each month. He is not even half way thru month. So...I ask him what he has been watching....does he watch porn? He says no, he cannot watch it due to block on his phone by network provider. To change it he has to have a credit card or go down to the store, he can only watch on WiFi. I ask him 'so do u watch porn with WiFi?' he says no. He 'hasn't watched porn since I asked him not to watch on my computer in August 2010'. He said he hasn't watched any since then! What a liar! I asked him specifically, have u watched it on my WiFi. He said no. I asked him really? He said no. I asked him did he watch it when I went out yesterday? He said no! And then proceeded with the 'not since u asked me not to. Not watched any since then.'

So, what do I do now? I asked him also if he taps in to WiFi at home anywhere, he says no. There4, if he does not, and it seems a big task to change on his service provider for watching 18 + stuff, where was he watching it at 6-7am on those mornings I know he did. And I am almost positive we were not together, that he was not at my house. So, where was he? 

I want to confront him tomorrow. Neither of our kids will be around, and I have enough to confront him on I feel. Firstly, he was told never ever to lie to me again. He was adamant he would not. After the pack of lies I have been told, and the fact I take honesty and trust very seriously, the fact he has just outright lied is a SERIOUS issue. That is a deal breaker. There4 to confront him tomorrow, he will not be expecting me to know of his high porn usage, I will tell him I know he looked at it as soon as I left for a few hours yesterday. I can explain that away on my WiFi if necessary. I can pretend I can see a log. Though I will not tell him how I know. Not unless I absolutely have to. And even then it will only be because he walking out the door and to bring him back to the conversation again.

And then when he admits to that, but that is the only thing he admits to (which it will be), then I will have to give him the times and dates he was looking at it, and see what he says. And indeed, where was he? How was he viewing it at home?

The issue is, he lies to me, and he is accessing it somewhere when he should be at home. Was he at home? I can't imagine he was anywhere else, but if he wasn't, where was he? I want to surprise him, but I also want to be clever about it. But I also believe to look at it that frequently, and the times he was, he would have to have been at home. I just need him to fess up! 

...so, should I confront him now? Or should I wait and see if I can get more on him? If I get more on him I need a keylogger for his phone. That will be easy cos I will demand his phone and then go off and look in it for however long I need. But I will have to subscribe and download exactly what I need there and then. And then install it. There4 I will need to know exactly what, and how to do it, and then download on his phone without him knowing. All over the pretense of me wanting to 'look through his phone'. And money tho...wasted. Especially if I am ditching him.

If I confront tomorrow, and he doesn't win me over, I will save myself the expense of the keylogger and just ditch him.

What are your thoughts on confronting now? How does it look to you? I know I should ditch him so I can do without black and white advice, no offense intended, my problem is I need to have the conviction to stay ditched. And so advice in these developments is welcome.

Please post here, and I am also going to put a new thread for this post, as I really need as much input and info before 4pm tomorrow as possible. That is his DD! 

At least I hope so. I so do not want him to worm his way out of this one. It is very difficult tho when it is what u thought was the love of your life....as I am sure every single one of you know.


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