# We both screwed up but...



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Edit to make this a little less confusing...

Met my current wife seven years ago when I started my new job. We were both married, became friends after I met her daughter (who also worked there). We fell in love, but never acted on it because we knew we just couldn’t go there. We both respected the other’s situation. 

Two years later she got divorced. After she divorced she hooked up with another guy, and we sorta lost contact. There was no EA during that time as we were being respectful. 

She broke up with that guy. A couple months later, she was having business trips with her married boss, and she’d already started an EA with him some months before. It went PA. This was totally out of character for her. They were hot and heavy for about four months, then he told her he had to recommit to his family. They still went on two 'business' trips even after that. 

It was the most hypocritical thing she could’ve done; the woman I knew wasn’t wired that way. When I found out he was married, I was shocked, and her boss on top of that, I was dumbfounded. She had told everyone (including me at the time) that she didn’t know he was married when they started. 

There’s other stuff but fast forward to me filing for divorce early that next year. Being “home” had only showed me I had nothing left there. I didn’t divorce to be with this woman; I knew she was involved at the time and I could only hope sometime maybe we’d get together. I did my own thing. Through various reasons, we got together finally late that year. 

Turns out she never got over the guy (no longer her boss now) and when she and I got together we agreed to not write or contact any exes. I wrote anyone who had been interested in me that I was finally with the ONE. Except… I kept writing one gal who lived overseas, whom I had never met, was not emotional about at all. She was a curiosity because she lived in China and I had interests in China. Much later, reading my W’s emails (I hacked into their private affair email account), she _never even slowed down _her rate of contacting him when we got together. The tone of the emails was she missed him, loved him more than anyone, they reminisced and so on. He was on a two year overseas gig and I thought (at the time) a non-factor. 

After a year of us being together, things came to a head. I had given her my email account passwords and she was supposed to have given me hers, but mine worked and hers never did, so she read all my emails that year. She knew everything I was writing, and to whom. I trusted her, so never looked at hers till way late in the summer on her phone, not computer as I had no working password). 

She accused me of having an online affair with the “ch*nk” and I felt really crappy about it, even though I had always considered it just a friendship (but I hadn’t asked my girl what she thought). I sent a NC right away, deleted my email accounts, changed my cell phone number and in fact she crushed my laptop and iPhone in her anger. 

But … I hadn’t hacked into their special affair email account until a couple months ago and discovered, amongst all the other painful things I read, they’d met up three or four times in a one week time span, and at least the last time it’s clear to me they’d had sex. So this late into the game I now know it went physical. I have remained physically and emotionally faithful and know within myself that my online crap was not truly an EA, although I am sure folks here will tell me it was.

She stopped contacting him, she says, on Dday. I believe her, even though her last text to him was “Updating my Yahoo, hope to see you…”. But she has beat me up over my affair while, whenever I bring up her stuff she deflects or lies. I have not confronted her directly about her physical unfaithfulness in 2011 but asked her what happened then – she said oh you must be thinking 2010 (when we weren’t together). I know she’s ashamed about the whole thing, and I don’t want to bring stuff up just to hurt her, but I keep thinking damn, I hurt. That’s why I hacked their email I guess. Oh, and there _were _no more emails or chats after that last one. Trust but verify... 


Ugh, I’m not perfect, but every time she sees an Asian woman she feels stabbed, acting like I had a PA on her. Every time I hear this guy’s name, see the model car he drove, etc, I get triggers too. But I keep mine to myself while she pokes at me with the Asians. And no, I don’t have an Asian fetish. She says my affair is penance/karma for the pain she put in the OW. 

Today we’re very much in love, committed to being together forever, married each other under God and I’ve forgiven her but I do hurt a lot from her part of it. With all the time that’s passed, I am wondering if I should just suck it up and forget it or get her to admit to the PA (she’s admitted to the EA enough for that to be real). 

Dday, she made me say out loud “I had an online affair on you for 14 months” yet she’s never said the same about her full-blown affair. I told my parents about it, and one good friend. She's told no one. It feels uneven, and when you add in the physical part I feel really hosed. 

That said, she once again is like the woman I fell in love with, the one with the golden heart and beautiful, warm soul. We’ve done a lot of work since those ugly days, and it’s been working. I just fall down into these “rabbit holes” sometimes and try as I may to avoid them, there they are. 

Should I confront her about the PA? If not, how do I work past the pain of it by myself? I have no family to talk to and don’t want my friends to lose respect for her. Also, although I have been told that their affair was discovered by the BW, I am not sure of it. I saw no evidence of it in the emails. So at this late date do I tell the other BS? The affair technically ended last December (2011).


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

ugh... you guys sound really healthy... have you considered an open relationship? Doesn't sound like either of you are much for monogamy.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah that's the screwed up part of it... We are both committed to monogamy, and since we had our "come to Jesus" in about 16 months ago we've been working on repairing the hurt. I truly want only her, and we've gone through, on our own (I just found this forum a couple weeks ago) most of the R process. This "encounter" with her "ex" happened over two years ago and I just found out about it in Feb this year. The main question is do I make her accountable? I told my parents I'd had an online affair but she hasn't told anyone about her affair.

And after you get over the sordid mess of it, please re-read the last few paragraphs. We truly are monogamous, and that's one of the reasons we never had an affair in the early years. But something in her snapped there for a few years. As I said, she's now back to being the woman I fell in love with originally. But of course, we've damaged each other in the interim....


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Well I guess I'm too screwed up to be helped here. I've learned a LOT form lurking this site and I guess I expected more... 

After putting together that long first posts I get one smarmy comment (not totally unexpected but c'mon) and that's it? I'll go help others where I can on this site. I've been on both sides of the fidelity fence and know all the pain associated with it. Ugh.

Still figuring this out on my own.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

you are *****whipped!!(sorry)

you reap what you sow


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sadly I'm thinking the same thing.

What goes around comes around.

The problem is you fell in love and its not so fun now.

You can rug sweep it but the truth will come out eventually.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Honestly not really sure what you want anyone to tell you. You have that woman on a pedestal she doesn't even sound remotely close to deserving to be on. Your idealized view of who you THINK she is and WANT her to be and the reality of who SHE ACTUALLY IS are not in sync in the slightest. From what you have said you sound almost in denial about it. 

She's accused you of cheating when IMO you haven't. Criticized you for having platonic chats with someone when she had access to YOUR passwords while you had to hack hers just to find out she was screwing around on you. And you're too afraid to even confront her for cheating on you when she is perfectly fine attacking you over the same thing when you didn't to begin with???? Really??

You need to man up like yesterday.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

doubletrouble, why on earth are you on a marriage forum? No offense but seems to me you're better suited for single lifestyle.


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

Doubletrouble, you wrote that you have gone through R...but she hasn't. You were in a false R. She never broke contact with him and won't ever break contact with him. She's stringing you along because you are letting her. Do the 180 and see what happens. Give yourself 90 days or something...it's HARD! Really, really, really hard. But maybe you'll be able to reflect on things better.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Once the trust is gone, even god can't help you then. Sorry, just how I see it.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Thanks, everyone. I do love her and am faithful and want this to work, and I feel she is on board with all of that. But as I have read here, the BS can be obsessive about finding out the truth, which is why I hacked into their secret affair email (that he had set up in 2009) and read the whole thing... the communication dropped silent in Dec 2011 after our donnybrook. But it's how I found out about the sex in 2011 while I was with her. 

I don't know if it's rugsweeping or not, but is there any point to outing her on that, since it was two years ago, and outing him as well? I am told they got caught (before she was with me) and he ended it in late '09, but obviously they kept it going after the exposure and now I wonder about whether I should tell his BW about how it went on and on, too. 

I don't want to screw with these other peoples' lives, but I feel obligated...? I know how much pain it could cause (her) if they've reached a point of R in their relationship (couldn't care less how he feels). I just am not sure, because of my own "can't see the forest for the trees" point of view. Ugh


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> doubletrouble, why on earth are you on a marriage forum? No offense but seems to me you're better suited for single lifestyle.


No, I am in my 50's and have been around the block a few times. I am ready for the rest of my life to be in one, solid, monogamous, loving relationship. I chose this woman to be it, but had no idea how screwed up her life got in between the time we fell in love and actually, finally got to be together. Looking back at my own life, I can see where I made my horrible choices and how they came about, and I have made my internal changes to ensure I never, ever travel that path again.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Honestly not really sure what you want anyone to tell you. You have that woman on a pedestal she doesn't even sound remotely close to deserving to be on. Your idealized view of who you THINK she is and WANT her to be and the reality of who SHE ACTUALLY IS are not in sync in the slightest. From what you have said you sound almost in denial about it.
> 
> She's accused you of cheating when IMO you haven't. Criticized you for having platonic chats with someone when she had access to YOUR passwords while you had to hack hers just to find out she was screwing around on you. And you're too afraid to even confront her for cheating on you when she is perfectly fine attacking you over the same thing when you didn't to begin with???? Really??
> 
> You need to man up like yesterday.


Ugh, that's why I came here. Nobody to talk to about it, family, friends or otherwise. I need the other point of view. 

When we first met, I was really impressed with her wisdom, straight up honesty, bluntness and more. I was intrigued with that, and frankly found her to be a rare type of personality in the world. That's why her affair with her married boss just floors me... so totally not her personality type and I thought she would never cheat on me... I know that sounds so rote coming from ppl on this forum, but this was from years of knowing her before we ever got into a relationship. 

I've confronted her on cheating but she tells me oh I got the date wrong, that was the year before we were together. Well, she has to know damn good and well exactly what I'm talking about; I imagine she can remember where her panties hit the floor that day, and every other detail about it as well as the dates. I just wonder if there's mileage in our relationship for talking about it any more. It feels unresolved to me, like I have to eat something she did in order to keep peace. She doesn't do GNOs or have any social life here at all, really. Neither of us do. We stay put, tucked into our little house and life and keep everyone at bay, more or less. Too many wolves out there. But she does have internet and her kindle so she has the means and opportunity, but knows if there's one whiff of the old stuff I'm gone and no second chances ever.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

PS, she doesn't know I hacked their secret email, and she deleted all her online presence as did I (except for work stuff I am required to do). Reading the forums, never reveal your sources, but if I do expose her (between us), I am sure I will need to print out the emails and show them to her. no denying that sh*t.

I can't tell if she talks about triggers because she feels hurt, guilty, or is (God forbid) still in contact with him. 

We had to drive through their old town a couple weeks ago and it was very difficult on both of us. She couldn't get out of there fast enough, and neither could I. I was watching her expressions VERY closely...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> you are *****whipped!!(sorry)
> 
> you reap what you sow


I may be, but can you clarify what it is you think I sowed?


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## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

In a weird way, I think you are a good match for each other. It would have been sad if each of you married someone else that had a faithful background - because that person would have not been prepared for the likely scenario that would follow. Since you have both been unfaithful and have had affairs, I think you are more suited for each other, and also know the signs of infidelity. Knowing each others background, you will both have your radar on throughout your relationship. That's why you are hacking into her account and she's periodically checking up on you. And rightfully so. 

Not sure that's a healthy relationship, but based on your respectvie backgrounds, I'm thinking this will be the theme moving forward. Good luck...hope it works out for you.

(ps - in this story, the one I feel for the most, is not you or your wife, but your ex-wife who had to endure a 20 year marriage based on infidelities. I hope your "turning to religion" can help you in some way address the pain you must have caused..as you are feeling similar pain at times in your relationship right now).


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I appreciate the sentiment, lewmin, please believe me. However, the ex wife had her own infidelity with at least one woman. others I suspected, but the one I am sure of. I left that out as a non-issue, and it's certainly no excuse for my incredibly poor choices.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

doubletrouble said:


> I may be, but can you clarify what it is you think I sowed?


You got together with someone willing to cheat with a married man and possible destroy his family. How could this possibly go wrong ? 

Her affair with a married boss is an indication of her outlook towards life and fidelity. You were the backup guy, good enough to settle for. But only good enough until her boss calls her back.


Do you avoid conflicts in general ? You seem to be scared of her.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i think you're now feeling buyers remorse- she wasn't what you thought she was.


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

As warlock said: Her affair with a married boss is an indication of her outlook towards life and fidelity. You were the backup guy, good enough to settle for. But only good enough until her boss calls her back.

God that sounds harsh!!! But warlock is on to something. I don't know her like you do and I'm profiling with the info available. But is does sound like this! She can't handle having one partner, or she must always be with someone or she has just been waiting for her old boss. Ouch.  I am sorry! This makes sense to me now. What does it do for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What kind of good relationship is built on lies and deceit?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So she's a long term serial cheater who has ZERO boundaries when it comes to affairs and hooking with men .

She's lied over and over and over to your face about cheating on you.

She's had essentially a sex week with her ex boss in which she took a couple hour break to be with you and it sounds like she had sex, and then as soon as she sent you back on your way a few hours later she rushed back to his bed of more.

And you for some reason have now convinced yourself that while she's done nothing but lie and cheat the entire time you've known her, that suddenly she's a changed woman because of you?

What about all the times she chose the exboss over you? Where was your soulmate influence then?

Honestly and frankly, she is in now way a faithful woman, she never has been, she never will be.

The only thing new is she's embarked on a new set of lies to you.

Now a lot of her lifestyle should seem familiar to you, because you yourself are a long term active cheater.

It sounds like when the two of you way back chose to not have a PA, that may have been the only time either of you actually made that choice. How ironic.

Bottom line: she never will be a faithful partner. She does not value you as her partner to be monogamous and faithful, her actions have shown this time and time again.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

doubletrouble said:


> Ugh, that's why I came here. Nobody to talk to about it, family, friends or otherwise. I need the other point of view.
> 
> When we first met, I was really impressed with her wisdom, straight up honesty, bluntness and more. I was intrigued with that, and frankly found her to be a rare type of personality in the world. That's why her affair with her married boss just floors me... so totally not her personality type and I thought she would never cheat on me... I know that sounds so rote coming from ppl on this forum, but this was from years of knowing her before we ever got into a relationship.
> 
> I've confronted her on cheating but she tells me oh I got the date wrong, that was the year before we were together. Well, she has to know damn good and well exactly what I'm talking about; I imagine she can remember where her panties hit the floor that day, and every other detail about it as well as the dates. I just wonder if there's mileage in our relationship for talking about it any more. It feels unresolved to me, like I have to eat something she did in order to keep peace. She doesn't do GNOs or have any social life here at all, really. Neither of us do. We stay put, tucked into our little house and life and keep everyone at bay, more or less. Too many wolves out there. But she does have internet and her kindle so she has the means and opportunity, but knows if there's one whiff of the old stuff I'm gone and no second chances ever.




And the minute her exboss has a free hour to hook up you know deep down that she will be running to him.

You may be choosing to be a reformed serial cheater, but there is zero indication she is.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Y*ou got together with someone willing to cheat with a married man and possible destroy his family. How could this possibly go wrong ? *
> 
> Her affair with a married boss is an indication of her outlook towards life and fidelity. You were the backup guy, good enough to settle for. But only good enough until her boss calls her back.
> 
> ...


warlock it was out of her character, didnt you read that?

What ever sh1t she did all of that were out of her character, But actually what I didnt get from OP is that what was her real chracter other than a cheating scum, who didnt gave a sh1t about others marriage and children.

You are being manipulated, she is not remorseful she is gas lighting you man, understand this first. your relationship with her is not based on truth its based on lies and deceit.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Well I guess I'm too screwed up to be helped here. I've learned a LOT form lurking this site and I guess I expected more...
> 
> After putting together that long first posts I get one smarmy comment (not totally unexpected but c'mon) and that's it? I'll go help others where I can on this site. I've been on both sides of the fidelity fence and know all the pain associated with it. Ugh.
> 
> Still figuring this out on my own.


So you hurt your wife by your cheating and now your new wife has cheated and hurt you?

*Did your current wife know of your previous infidelities?* You see, even unconsciously she might have thought you'd be cool with her having a bit on the side, as you'd done the same thing throughout your previous marriage.

You both need counselling to help you get to where you both want and need to be.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> warlock it was out of her character, didnt you read that?
> 
> What ever sh1t she did all of that were out of her character, But actually what I didnt get from OP is that what was her real chracter other than a cheating scum, who didnt gave a sh1t about others marriage and children.
> 
> You are being manipulated, she is not remorseful she is gas lighting you man, understand this first. your relationship with her is not based on truth its based on lies and deceit.


Exactly, cheating is very much in character for her. Just because she didn't choose him to cheat with the first time he falsely believed it was out of character for her, he was very wrong, the fact that she the first time put do much effort into him as a married man that he was back then shows she already had very bad boundaries.

For whatever reason she decided not to cheat with him the first time, but it doesn't seem to have slowed her down with anyone else.

Want to bet her last marriage also ended because of HER cheating?


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## PastOM (Apr 12, 2013)

Thanks for your post. I read it several times and I am a little shocked that you need advice from here. I can only say that you seem to be very spiritual in your approach, and she seems to be somewhat secular in hers.

Put it this way. You eat pork flavored tofu, she eats pork, while having sex with the dead pigs husband. Any clearer?

You should be single.

Good luck!


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Ugh.... Yes she knew about may past infidelities, and we had long conversations about how dead-end that was. No, her last marriage ended because he cheated on her, and her first husband not only cheated on her but beat her regularly. She has a past of abuse (step father) and has really worked a lot on herself to be a better person than the family she grew up in. 

I guess what I am interested in hearing from here is, since the "event" of physically cheating happened in 2011, after they had been "exposed," and while she was with me, is there any point in outing them to the BW in his family? Or am I just feeling sour grapes and let them work it out (why scrape the scab, so to speak?). 

I realize how sordid her story sounds, but I am in love with her and WANT to believe this is all in the past. To my knowledge, she doesn't have a history of cheating (except this one, huge Hypocrisy), and I know a LOT of her history. Things we would talk about before, when just friends, she could've told me stuff then (without the emotional hit on me) just didn't come up. I know, revisionist history and all that but we've known each other for years. 

I read what I am writing and I realize I sound just like so many other BSes here, trying to rationalize and forgive...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> You got together with someone willing to cheat with a married man and possible destroy his family. How could this possibly go wrong ?
> 
> Her affair with a married boss is an indication of her outlook towards life and fidelity. You were the backup guy, good enough to settle for. But only good enough until her boss calls her back.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I didn't know who he was all the time they were 'together,' and when I found out who he was (months later) I couldn't believe it. But at that time, I thought OK, that's behind her, bad mistake, she knows he never loved her and all those things so we're on our way together. No problem, right? 

I do feel I was the backup guy, or rather maybe still AM, although I don't see her having contact with him any longer. I totally hijacked their "affair" email account about two and a half months ago, so neither of them can get into it any more. There was nothing since the day before our donnybrook in Dec 2011. It just stopped.

I don't avoid conflicts in general; if you knew what I do for a living you'd say OK, yeah, he doesn't. But this is a huge, painful thing that I am trying to figure out the best way to deal with. It sometimes does paralyze me, my brain, my heart, etc. Which is why I started coming to this board in the first place, trying to make sense of it. 

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate it.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> warlock it was out of her character, didnt you read that?
> 
> What ever sh1t she did all of that were out of her character, But actually what I didnt get from OP is that what was her real chracter other than a cheating scum, who didnt gave a sh1t about others marriage and children.
> 
> You are being manipulated, she is not remorseful she is gas lighting you man, understand this first. your relationship with her is not based on truth its based on lies and deceit.


That's the first thing I thought when I started reading their affair account email. Lies, lies, lies, a whole sh1tload of lies, and I trusted her. And was emotionally and physically faithful to her all the time we've been together. I know with her history of abuse and heartache that being unfaithful to her would crush her, but moreover I am so sick and tired of cheating and cheaters and their ridiculous stories. I've never stayed after my partner strayed (I know, double standards for this former cheater), and as long as I've wanted to be with her and have someone to love me the rest of my life, I hope to think she's worth it still. 

It was a scummy thing for her to do. Needed some sort of approval that apparently she couldn't get from a single man (or soon-to-be single man like me). I will say that I know her boss took his time studying her and seducing her, at least a year. She was known in the office as a "man-hater or lesbian" because she wouldn't screw around there. And the most beautiful woman there to boot. I do know, from reading everything and from the stories she's told me (that line up with what I've read and deduced) that he zeroed in on her and took his time getting inside her mind. Then set up the event to get into her pants. No excuse for her decision to fvck the guy, but it wasn't a one-way street.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> So she's a long term serial cheater who has ZERO boundaries when it comes to affairs and hooking with men .
> 
> She's lied over and over and over to your face about cheating on you.
> 
> ...


Yeah the soulmate stuff I don't think I'll ever even use the terminology again. 

Having been a cheater, I know what to look for, but then again, she hid that from me for several months. The whole bit about her wanting my email passwords and not giving me hers really BITES me today. We wouldn't never got past the first month had I been reading her stuff like she was reading mine. And she would read way back into history, to find out what I was chatting about and with whom, which was never any of her business. That part really does piss me off, and then of course being the safety net for her when her affair wore off. 

I want this to be right, I want it soooo bad.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

The more I read what y'all are writing (thank you again, by the way), the worse I am starting to feel about all this going forward. Is there no hope? Am I holding on to something that isn't real, really?

We're looking at a house to buy.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Absolutely tell the OM wife.

Put off buying a house until your relationship is stable.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think the two of you have such a history of cheating in your lives - doing the cheating and being cheated on - that you have no experience of a foundation of trust. You clearly want to trust her, but you can't and don't. She has lied and had sex in a long-term love affair with her boss. You admit to many infidelities yourself & she clearly goes offscale about your relationship with the woman in China. No trust.

You can go ahead with your relationship, but it will be very rocky and probably heartbreaking. I'm sorry. I know you want to have her be the love of your life. Perhaps she can be. People change. The problem is that neither one of you really knows how to trust. Maybe you could try some counseling.

I really hope for your sake that she is really done with the OM. I agree that the OMW has a right to know what her POSWH has been doing.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You cannot undo the history of your lives, which in any event is not boring. You might as well take some pride in it all since you at least believe that you have found spiritual values.

As to the dynamics, well it was opera with the woman being pulled back and forth in a drawn out drama. You ended up on top but feel that it's an accident. B won the duel because of circumstance instead of merit. What you want is more intensity in her feelings for you.

Is there some way to excite her about the choice she has made in being with you? Do you want to confrontation in which she has to confess and explicitly repudiate her character? In some sense you want to remake her at a late stage in life. It is a project. Maybe plotting and executing it will give a sense of fulfillment once you succeed.

If you fail and your relationship collapses, you will have lost something that was good but imperfect. How bad is the imperfection?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

doubletrouble said:


> The more I read what y'all are writing (thank you again, by the way), the worse I am starting to feel about all this going forward. Is there no hope? Am I holding on to something that isn't real, really?
> 
> We're looking at a house to buy.


You cannot be serious, are you ? If there was some kind of award of stupidity on TAM, I would probably give it to you


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you still have the emails ? You mention you hijacked it. What do you mean by that ? Couldn't they have created other email accounts ?

And the OM, make him pay. He sh*t on your life and marriage. Let him have some consequences


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> The more I read what y'all are writing (thank you again, by the way), the worse I am starting to feel about all this going forward. Is there no hope? Am I holding on to something that isn't real, really?
> 
> *We're looking at a house to buy.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> :scratchhead:


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Do you still have the emails ? You mention you hijacked it. What do you mean by that ? Couldn't they have created other email accounts ?
> 
> And the OM, make him pay. He sh*t on your life and marriage. Let him have some consequences


I'm no computer hacker -- I guessed the answers to his "secret questions" then put in my own password and changed a few other things. He nor she can ever guess or get into that account again. That's where I have the BW's email address, their children and probably a few friends. He had BCed a few emails to her while writing them. Yes, they could have created a new account, but there was no mention of it in the old one (including Yahoo chats) and they would have no reason back then to think I even knew about the account. 

Yeha, he not only sh1t on his marriage first, then he **** on mine as well (along with her help). 



warlock07 said:


> You cannot be serious, are you ? If there was some kind of award of stupidity on TAM, I would probably give it to you


Thanks for most of your comments, Warlock; the name calling is inappropriate however. I'm not stupid, I'm in love.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> doubletrouble said:
> 
> 
> > The more I read what y'all are writing (thank you again, by the way), the worse I am starting to feel about all this going forward. Is there no hope? Am I holding on to something that isn't real, really?
> ...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> You cannot undo the history of your lives, which in any event is not boring. You might as well take some pride in it all since you at least believe that you have found spiritual values.
> 
> As to the dynamics, well it was opera with the woman being pulled back and forth in a drawn out drama. You ended up on top but feel that it's an accident. B won the duel because of circumstance instead of merit. What you want is more intensity in her feelings for you.
> 
> ...


Thank you! You've put some of this into words that match up to the nebulous gathering of data bits in my brain. Gives me a little different structure in my brain from which to think. 

I want her to return fully to the woman I thought she was before we got together. Truly I had her on a pedestal, thought she was ideal and (sometimes brutally) honest. She even counseled me through the end of my last affair seven years ago and held no punches while I had my pity party for one (I got dumped). With that kind of history, seeing my pain at the time, I had no idea she had the ability to be so cruel to me. I think and pray that it's all worth it because it's not an easy choice to make. Leaving is an easy choice, but there's that darned love thing that gets squarely in the way.

For an update to today, just this week in fact, without my prodding, she's been saying how sorry she is for her part. For her "stubbornness, selfishness and blindness to the pain I was inflicting. Forever and a day I will be working to make it right." I have to wonder where this is coming from, but I have thanked her for verbalizing it since she was feeling it. 

I dunno, LongWalk, to me all of life is imperfect. We do the best we can with what we have. She's the best I've had in so many areas that I am willing to work this through with her. It appears we may be on the event horizon of her coming clean, or at least giving me the opening to challenge her about it one more time. Stay tuned...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The trouble is before you became her spouse, you were part of her secret private world of cheaters, and folks who crossed boundaries.

Then you left that and became her husband.

You were once in the inside, and now you are on the outside.

This thing with her OM, that must be finished, exposed and ended before you can move on.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think the two of you have such a history of cheating in your lives - doing the cheating and being cheated on - that you have no experience of a foundation of trust. You clearly want to trust her, but you can't and don't. She has lied and had sex in a long-term love affair with her boss. You admit to many infidelities yourself & she clearly goes offscale about your relationship with the woman in China. No trust.
> 
> You can go ahead with your relationship, but it will be very rocky and probably heartbreaking. I'm sorry. I know you want to have her be the love of your life. Perhaps she can be. People change. The problem is that neither one of you really knows how to trust. Maybe you could try some counseling.
> 
> I really hope for your sake that she is really done with the OM. I agree that the OMW has a right to know what her POSWH has been doing.


You're right about trust issues. The funny thing is, back when she started this thing up with this guy I thought wow, she sure moved on quickly. But she had more or less said at the time although she loved me, she wasn't going to wait around for me while I figured my stuff out. So when she started with him (before we were together), I told her she had broken my heart but not my trust. Well, now the trust is broken, too. In some part of my mind I am hoping that we can click back into that part of our lives when we had trust, and be able to look back on this as a very bad blip.... 

I will say that she's always had trust issues which is why she's so hung up on the China thing. She was badly abused as a young girl (over food, emotional and sexual), battered by boyfriends and her first husband, and been cheated on all along the way. It's no wonder she has trust issues. Four years ago she trusted me blindly, that took her years to accept in her mind & heart, and look what I did with that. 

Regardless of the Chinese woman being platonic, it was a woman, therefore a potential threat. I knew about her trust issues. I should have at least talked to her about that relationship, but since I went dark on ex lovers and potentials, I considered it a non-factor at the time. It wasn't to her. Perception is 99% reality. I still go back to the fact, however, that she had my email passwords and saw everything I wrote to anyone the entire time we've been together. But she was having her affair so I think that was a convenient thing to beat me up with later, after she finally accepted that her affair had collapsed.

I do believe she has changed. She's militant about how bad workplace affairs are, and back to being militant about infidelity in general. She believes 99% of the human population feed their bad wolves, which is why it's hard to go out and make real friends, among other things. And finding a good relationship is even more difficult because of the vulnerability you allow to happen. 

I did the work on myself, but she's the one who brought me back to God and my spiritual side. Her whole vernacular has gone back to the woman I knew years ago. I perceive this as a good thing.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> The trouble is before you became her spouse, you were part of her secret private world of cheaters, and folks who crossed boundaries.
> 
> Then you left that and became her husband.
> 
> ...


Wow that's a position I hadn't considered.... 

I know WHEN I expose the OM, if there's any contact at all between the two, there will be a ripple effect within her. I will be looking very closely for it. Since I do believe it's over for real, there should be no ripples in our house, whatsoever. From what I have dug into, they have been "off" since Dec 2011.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

So today she came clean. Yesterday was the apology note (we write notes to each other when I come and go from work. No email!) She knows I know everything, and admitted to this stubbornness, blindness and outright arrogance about how she's handled this. She had ramped herself up over the Chinese woman so far that she felt somehow she "got back" at me, back then. Today she said there is no justification for her behavior and she wasn't going to try to justify it. I told her good, there IS no way to justify it. Your CHOICE. 

Feels like a breakthrough. I was going to print out the emails (without my nasty comments all over them) and present them to her before the house thing, before we ever seriously talked about moving, and see where she was with it all. The first time I brought all this up to her she said oh, that must've been the year before. But obviously she knew then that I knew; I was going to go a while to see if she would break out of her 'fog' (affair fog or vindictive fog or whatever fog) before I made it happen. I wasn't going to go along with it all forever, without it being addressed. 

She loves me, is on her knees begging forgiveness, and says she will spend the rest of her life trying to make this up to me. 

I reckon that's a good start.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Policy of radical honesty. Google it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> *Well I guess I'm too screwed up to be helped here. I've learned a LOT form lurking this site and I guess I expected more...
> 
> After putting together that long first posts I get one smarmy comment (not totally unexpected but c'mon) and that's it? I'll go help others where I can on this site. I've been on both sides of the fidelity fence and know all the pain associated with it. Ugh.*
> 
> Still figuring this out on my own.


Now I got looking at this because a post of you in another thread, but your first post is unreadable, so I understand people may not be able to figure out the situation.

Normally that gets set right because of comments on the post, but clearly that did not happen here.

So.....Maybe you freshen up your story to be shorter and to the fact?

Not kidding her, I am quite capable of analyzing and this post was confusing. Give it a try please.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

DT, part of the problem is that in this forum cheating = bad. Many posters root for BS, you are not a pure victim. I think you will find what you are looking for, but it will take time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Now I got looking at this because a post of you in another thread, but your first post is unreadable, so I understand people may not be able to figure out the situation.
> 
> Normally that gets set right because of comments on the post, but clearly that did not happen here.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I changed it today; hopefully it will flow a little better.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> DT, part of the problem is that in this forum cheating = bad. Many posters root for BS, you are not a pure victim. I think you will find what you are looking for, but it will take time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed.... Bottom line in this relationship is that she believes I had an online EA, and has roundly beat me for it. She, on the other hand, never stopped her affair with the OM, and fvcked him four months into our relationship, and continued her EA for 15 months after we got together. 

*He was more important to her than me.* Period. Had he not been married, we would not be together. She would have been with him.

Today she says she hates 98% of him, and the other 2% she's glad he was such an arrogant prick because she never would have stayed there. 

I'm confused.


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## Single Malt (May 2, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Edit to make this a little less confusing...
> 
> Met my current wife seven years ago when I started my new job. We were both married, became friends after I met her daughter (who also worked there). We fell in love, but never acted on it because we knew we just couldn’t go there. We both respected the other’s situation.


You did act on it. You "fell in love". You acted on it by engaging in an emotional affair.




> It was the most hypocritical thing she could’ve done; the woman I knew wasn’t wired that way. When I found out he was married, I was shocked


Why? She engaged in an EA with a married man(you) while married herself, and engaged in a full blown affair with another married man while not married.




> She had told everyone (including me at the time) that she didn’t know he was married when they started.


She didn't know her boss was married? Really? 




> She accused me of having an online affair with the “ch*nk”


So she has a problem with race?




> Should I confront her about the PA?


I think you know you should. She got you to say it. And if you don't confront her about hers, then the only alternative you have is to suck it up and just sit there and stew whenever triggers happen.




> If not, how do I work past the pain of it by myself?


Simply to suck it up. Have a drink maybe? Go running, to the gym, get a hobby perhaps?




> I have no family to talk to and don’t want my friends to lose respect for her. Also, although I have been told that their affair was discovered by the BW, I am not sure of it. I saw no evidence of it in the emails.


So can you print off the emails? That would be how you should confront her with it.




> So at this late date do I tell the other BS?


Yes, because she deserves to know.


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## Single Malt (May 2, 2013)

doubletrouble

Ok, here you go. You want to out the OM to his wife? I think you should do it for 2 reasons:

1) She deserves to know what kind of slime she is married to so she can take matters into her own hands how her life turns out.

and 2) if you out him, obviously the OM will contact your wife and b!tch to her about it. And if she gets mad at you for outing him to his wife, then you'll know she seeks to protect him and you will know his well being takes priority over you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Policy of radical honesty. Google it.


:iagree:


After reading your now well to read first post, I can't say anything else than change your life and go honest for the rest of it.

Come what may. Stop with this misery.

You need to read about Doormat, Enabling, Beta on these forums. Man up is the way to go.

Like the cheaters Fog, I see also the Nice Guy fog. In your case combined with your own questionable behaviour.

Come clean. The only way out.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeha I've come clean; it was her not coming clean about the whole things (trickling) and I had to find out about the PA. She probably never would have mentioned it otherwise. 

Thing is, now that it's out in the open, so to speak, she still doesn't want to talk about it. She still reacts/triggers when she sees an Asian woman (there are billions) but doesn't seem to be as empathetic with me when I report my triggers. She acknowledges them, but doesn't get into "repair talk" with me like I do with her. I guess it's because we've established a pattern, since Dday, of me medicating her. It took her a long time to come around and recognize that I had pain too, and her PA to me is far more painful than being basically a pen pal to the Chinese woman. 

So I'm left feeling like I did this really bad thing and although she (in my mind) did something far worse, she gets more "medication" form me than I do from her. The balance seems off.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Single Malt said:


> You did act on it. You "fell in love". You acted on it by engaging in an emotional affair.
> 
> 
> *Can't argue that one. We were attracted to each other but knew we couldn't DO anything with that attraction. It could've easily gone PA since at the time we lived in the same town.*
> ...


:iagree:


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Yeha I've come clean; it was her not coming clean about the whole things (trickling) and I had to find out about the PA. She probably never would have mentioned it otherwise.
> 
> Thing is, now that it's out in the open, so to speak, she still doesn't want to talk about it. She still reacts/triggers when she sees an Asian woman (there are billions) but doesn't seem to be as empathetic with me when I report my triggers. She acknowledges them, but doesn't get into "repair talk" with me like I do with her. I guess it's because we've established a pattern, since Dday, of me medicating her. It took her a long time to come around and recognize that I had pain too, and her PA to me is far more painful than being basically a pen pal to the Chinese woman.
> 
> So I'm left feeling like I did this really bad thing and although she (in my mind) did something far worse, she gets more "medication" form me than I do from her. The balance seems off.


Well, the balance IS off, but not just because her pain appears to have more value than your pain. No, it's off, it seems to me, because you aren't viewing her in a realistic way, as the person she really is. You think that she is behaving out of character, when what you are experiencing when she cheats and lies is very much a part of her character. If you bring her down to earth, you might start to see that you are owed far more than her rugsweeping and trickle truth.

One question and one comment:

- How are you sure that she is not in contact with the OM?
- You should out the OM to his BW. She has every right to important information about her own life.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

The main reason I think she's done with him is that their affair email account had zero activity after her last text to him. It was his account, his password, something he created, and he hadn't even sent her an email since Dec 2011. They may have gone underground, but the way she talks about him nowadays is full of anger, not that he hurt her (she said she used to thnk that), but that he was such an arrogant POS. 

I haven't keylogged the Kindle, nor did I do anything to her laptop before she gave it to her daughter's gf last summer for a birthday present. We have only one email account, but yeah, she has full, unfettered access to the internet all day long at home. 

The guy lives a 7 hour drive away, and she never leaves the house, for the most part. So their relationship would have to be emotional at this point. If it's still ongoing, I'm so outta here! And she knows that. No more words, no more contact; I will die to her (figuratively).

Right now I am trying to figure out how to out him properly to the BW. not sure what to say. I have been told that they were seen in public, and outed, after about four months into their PA. That's when he sent her the "dear Jane" letter. But then they continued on.... and then she and I got together and they continued on.... 

I'm not sure what to send the BW as evidence. Any of their "I love you" emails from the time before they were outed would be very painful for her I am sure. But it's the emails *after *they were outed, and I am sure he told her it was over and never meant that much and it was only one time blah blah (insert cheater's script here) -- those are the ones that I think she would need to know about.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

And at that time, I have no idea what he told his wife. I'm guessing it was trickle truth and that she doesn't know about TAM (wish I had) or any of the evidence gathering techniques. After all, he was "sophisticated" enough to set up a private email account. I do know he's an intelligent man, not a bottom scraper by any means.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Well, the balance IS off, but not just because her pain appears to have more value than your pain. No, it's off, it seems to me, because you aren't viewing her in a realistic way, as the person she really is. You think that she is behaving out of character, when what you are experiencing when she cheats and lies is very much a part of her character. If you bring her down to earth, you might start to see that you are owed far more than her rugsweeping and trickle truth.


Yeah someone wrote I had Nice Guy fog and that actually hit home. I do. This is the one woman I love over everything else, and I can't help it sometimes. I feel the R is real, and I don't feel in my gut that she's doing anything any more. I did feel it while it was going on. 

Yesterday I told her about a trigger I got; she was sympathetic about it. She's been having her triggers, apparently due to this time of year, but she did at least acknowledge she was sorry for mine. 

There's a part of me that wants to say "I hope the bastard was worth all this pain we BOTH have now."


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

It's taken her a long time, but she's able to process just how BAD she got over the last few years. She's picking up on who she is, how she went "bad" and focusing on my pain. She's horribly shamed by her behavior, and says it's taken her a long time to confess to herSELF the things she did. 

I agree, it was horrible. I'll give her no slack for justifying or rugsweeping, but I have given her enough time to come around. 

God help me not to call her names and insult her while I describe how I feel. I want to be constructive, and not by trying to destroy what's left of her self worth.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Ummm okay so you talk to a women online and she freaks out on you even tho you had given her the email passwords. The she fvcks a guy for several months while you are FIRST married, lies about her email, lies about the affair. And you are helping her get past her triggers? Please say you are kidding me, that this is a joke or something? She betrays her vows probably in the same month she gave them maybe she even had sex on the wedding day. While betraying your love and trust at the same time. Here is the deal first you say she is remorseful well I don't see that look up some of the other threads about really remorseful WS Msr Matias is a great one of someone who really wants to repair what they have. Oh but now she is back to hating cheaters and the other guy is a bad guy and maybe a predator.

Bottom line she cheated on you. She has never really done what is necessary for YOU to get over the affair as she has never been held to the fire. Did you do NC? Did you out her to family and friends? Does she really care about your triggers and is trying to get past them. People will treat you how you let them treat you and right now you are letting her treat you like nothing. Your feeling matter you have never healed from this, you have never had your needs taken care of. She has not addressed any of this and you come out saying this is hard for her to go through? Screw her this is your time she just cut your damn heart open don't offer to clean the knife for her! What about yourself? I would tell her frankly how you feel and that you are unsure you can or should even get over this then tell you that you have rugsweeped this whole thing and you need to talk about why and how this all came about? Any back talk from her and you should tell her then I am going to look into divorce and walk away.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Her note to me this morning:

You are my forever and always. I love you so very very much. And with each day's passing it only deepens. I'm honored, blessed and damn lucky to have your love. Thank you for remembering who I am when I had forgotten.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I think you two need to make a timeline of your relation, and mention the important things between the two of you, and with side columns to the left for her, and to the right for you, columns for the EA/PA partners there were.
Make also note of the feelings about these facts from both sides.


Discuss all the items, report your feelings about them to each other, acknowledge the other persons feelings by rephrasing them in your own words.

I hope that will take away, with removing possible tickle truth, not only about facts, but also about the experiencing/feelings at the moment the facts by her and yourself, that finally you can come to some closure.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

CEL said:


> Ummm okay so you talk to a women online and she freaks out on you even tho you had given her the email passwords. The she fvcks a guy for several months while you are FIRST married, lies about her email, lies about the affair. And you are helping her get past her triggers? Please say you are kidding me, that this is a joke or something? She betrays her vows probably in the same month she gave them maybe she even had sex on the wedding day. While betraying your love and trust at the same time. Here is the deal first you say she is remorseful well I don't see that look up some of the other threads about really remorseful WS Msr Matias is a great one of someone who really wants to repair what they have. Oh but now she is back to hating cheaters and the other guy is a bad guy and maybe a predator.
> 
> Bottom line she cheated on you. She has never really done what is necessary for YOU to get over the affair as she has never been held to the fire. Did you do NC? Did you out her to family and friends? Does she really care about your triggers and is trying to get past them. People will treat you how you let them treat you and right now you are letting her treat you like nothing. Your feeling matter you have never healed from this, you have never had your needs taken care of. She has not addressed any of this and you come out saying this is hard for her to go through? Screw her this is your time she just cut your damn heart open don't offer to clean the knife for her! What about yourself? I would tell her frankly how you feel and that you are unsure you can or should even get over this then tell you that you have rugsweeped this whole thing and you need to talk about why and how this all came about? Any back talk from her and you should tell her then I am going to look into divorce and walk away.


Yup. You've basically nailed it. Except she 'only' had physical contact with him one week since we got together. That's bad enough, but it wasn't months. The bad part following on was their continued EA for another 11 months until Dday. And I didn't KNOW about the PA she had on me until this February, after doing some snooping. 

Thanks for the insightful point of view. I believe we're going to talk this weekend and she's got to understand what she's done to me. 

Hell, just this morning I had to drive for 5 minutes behind one of those model cars he owns, that's a very bad start to my day.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think you two need to make a timeline of your relation, and mention the important things between the two of you, and with side columns to the left for her, and to the right for you, columns for the EA/PA partners there were.
> Make also note of the feelings about these facts from both sides.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, that sounds like a pretty analytical way to do it. The only part I wonder about that approach is that it turns into a tit for tat conversation about who got hurt more.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> Thanks, that sounds like a pretty analytical way to do it. The only part I wonder about that approach is that it turns into a tit for tat conversation about who got hurt more.


No, if you both report your feelings on issues you just accept that as the feeling the other communicates to you, and write it just down.

The talking about it is not discussing the truth of it, but the understanding of what the other says. Rephrase in your own words to show you understand and to get validation of your wording.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I know this is an old topic but without me jumping around on different threads, where are you two at today?


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

We're in R... It's not easy; some days are better than others. I feel her hidden story, while berating me for my part, was a real slap in the groin. She's remorseful, wishes she could go back and change the whole thing, and is as loving as she knows how to be. Even with all that, there is pain in my heart every day, and I've told her that. 

I believe part of her anger towards me was anger she wanted to direct to OM, because in retrospect, he rejected her. Big surprise. She put way more into it than he ever did, and she also could've lost me. Had I known back then about her adultery, I would be gone. She says that would've been the worst thing in her life, and knowing now what it's like to live with me, knows even moreso that she would've lost the best thing that has happened to her since her child was born. 

I accept that, but there are still things that I need to come to terms with in my own head. So yes, we are in R, but the difficulty comes from me trying to deal with the web of deceit that I'm trying to untangle. 

We're coming up on the one year anniversay of her grandfather's death. He's the real father in her life, since her biological and her stepdad are both a sad use of protoplasm. Grampa was an old Okie cowboy, and taught her to rise above the life she had in her family as a kid. And she did that, for the most part. Her time with OM, despite the judgement passed on her in this thread, was an anomoly in her life. I know how her life has gone, but I don't love her out of pity. I do feel she overcame huge challenges in her life to get where she is today. I also think part of her affair was a MLC, because she started that late in her 39th year, 40th year etc. Not excuses, but reasons that I can glean from knowing her as well as I do. 

I still trigger, and as I said, I hurt daily from one thing or another. I don't try to feel pain; I'm not a self-cutter. It just pops up unbidden. 

Thanks for reading, SandC, and thanks for asking.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

So sad to read. Then one piece of unasked-for advice. Don't let her get comfortable. Let her think that you could walk out at any minute. Maybe it's too late for that, dunno. I don't get any sense that she faced any real consequences of her affair. Feeling bad for OM dumping her is not a consequence. I mean, you know that forgiveness does not mean lack of consequences right? Even though Christians are forgiven, we still have to die.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

DT, lets lay it on the line here...

Because I think you are truly deluding yourself. 

You married a cheater. Not just any cheater but a woman who not only cheated on her ex-husband but was cheating with a married family man during the time you two were not in contact. 

Somehow while you were both married the two of you had an empotional affair and she snagged you and you fell in love with her...

Your EA with her was most likely the final nail in the coffin of your own prior marriage.

She cheats on you while engaged to you and for several months after the wedding. 

Your WW is a woman who goes from affair to affair, never satisfaied with any one man for long. She's always looking for that greener pasture, that sunnier meadow. She is broken beyond repair, has zero (0) moral fiber and no scruples whatsoever. She is a maneater of the worst variety.

HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU ACTUALLT EXPECT THIS WOMAN TO EVER STAY FAITHFUL TO YOU FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME? 

But you are more broken than she is. I'm sorry to be hard on you DT, but, my brother, you need professional help. Lot's of it. You have screwed your life up so bad that you are actually blind to it. Only the rest of us here, watching this trainwreck unfold, are objective enough to tell you how it is. 

Wake up and get some help.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

sandc said:


> So sad to read. Then one piece of unasked-for advice. Don't let her get comfortable. Let her think that you could walk out at any minute. Maybe it's too late for that, dunno. I don't get any sense that she faced any real consequences of her affair. Feeling bad for OM dumping her is not a consequence. I mean, you know that forgiveness does not mean lack of consequences right? Even though Christians are forgiven, we still have to die.


You're absolutely right about that. And I have been too gentle on her for some things. Other things aren't worth the fight, to get what I want from any relationship, not just this one. It's not too late, SandC, because she still fears that, she fears there will be some woman who will come along and steal me, and so on. I don't even look at other women, don't look at porn, don't even like TV for the most part because it's so sex driven and sexually objectifying (for both genders, frankly). She doesn't have a guarantee that I'll stick around. Even though we married under God, the Bible says adultery is the one thing you can divorce over, and she's given me that "thing." I don't lord her insanity over her; I am trying to create a good relationship that will last and be satisfying, and as peaceful as can be in this world.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

LostViking said:


> DT, lets lay it on the line here...
> 
> Because I think you are truly deluding yourself. OK....
> You married a cheater. Not just any cheater but a woman who not only cheated on her ex-husband but was cheating with a married family man during the time you two were not in contact. Where did she cheat on him? I know he cheated on her, but if she was going to cheat on him, back then it would've most likely been with me, had either of us been inclined.
> ...


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She did many nice things for the OM. What wonderful thing has she done for you to show you that you were always number one and the only one in her life? (maybe not at all times since your marriage when she was cheating, but now and in the future)

Did she ever help you tell the OMW about the affair? And has she shown you when the last contact occurred with the OM?

Did she tell you she used protection during the affair and if not, has she been tested for stds?

Hope your future is happier.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

did you exposed the OM?

you seems to believe that exposure is a sort of revenge?, but this is not the case exposure is used mainly to destroy the affair, but is also about giving to the betrayed spouse (in this case the OMW) the power of taking decission in her life knowing the kind of person she is living with, for the way the affair was described this is probably not his first affair, and by giving her the full picture to the OMW you may be giving her the information she needs to have closure or take actions regarding his POS of a husband.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

She must be the greatest actress of all times or she's very good at other things to keep you around and believe that crap. That bull she's blowing must be pretty good. BTW, you're so blinded by love, you can't even see you're being played. 50's and been around the block...I don't think you've ever been around this block ever if she's playing you like a puppet on strings.

Or you get off on this stuff. Either her cheating or the white knight in shining armor crap. Can't save them all, sometimes you gotta look at the dragon and say, no thanks she's not worth this.

Your life, your decision and if you choose to be with her, good luck to you.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

manticore said:


> did you exposed the OM?
> 
> you seems to believe that exposure is a sort of revenge?, but this is not the case exposure is used mainly to destroy the affair, but is also about giving to the betrayed spouse (in this case the OMW) the power of taking decission in her life knowing the kind of person she is living with, for the way the affair was described this is probably not his first affair, and by giving her the full picture to the OMW you may be giving her the information she needs to have closure or take actions regarding his POS of a husband.


I haven't exposed to this day. I set up an email account for it, forrwarded some messages, I have OMW's email account and know where she works. 

The affair is over so exposure wouldn't be to stop it. As you say, it would be so she knows who she's dealing with. 

Now may be the best time as I have found they are selling their house and he's back in the Middle East, working (civilian contractor). She could move all his stuff or donate it to Goodwill and find her own house to live in. Might be the best timing of all. I don't know why they are selling, exactly, but a major employer in their town went belly up last year so that might be part of it. Neither of them works in the town in which they live.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

CH said:


> She must be the greatest actress of all times or she's very good at other things to keep you around and believe that crap. That bull she's blowing must be pretty good. BTW, you're so blinded by love, you can't even see you're being played. 50's and been around the block...I don't think you've ever been around this block ever if she's playing you like a puppet on strings.
> 
> Or you get off on this stuff. Either her cheating or the white knight in shining armor crap. Can't save them all, sometimes you gotta look at the dragon and say, no thanks she's not worth this.
> 
> Your life, your decision and if you choose to be with her, good luck to you.


She was a good actress, but what "crap" am I believing today? 

I'm mid-50s and been around the block too, my friend. You don't ride any higher on the wave than anyone else in this boat. I certainly don't get off on this stuff, so put that back in your pocket. 

Thanks for the good luck wishes.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Now may be the best time as I have found they are selling their house and he's back in the Middle East, working (civilian contractor). She could move all his stuff or donate it to Goodwill and find her own house to live in. Might be the best timing of all. I don't know why they are selling, exactly, but a major employer in their town went belly up last year so that might be part of it. Neither of them works in the town in which they live.


yes it sounds that it would be the best time now.

see, I always say BSs in your dilema to think if they would have liked to be informed as fast someone else's found about the affair, and the answer is always yes. 

For example in "bff" case his wife was cheating on him for 6 years, but the OMW found in the first 6 months when the affair began, you can imagine how much suffering and years of his life wasted could the OMW saved him if she would have informed him as fast as she found (that without saying the allymoney he is forced to pay for those extra 5.5 years he remained married to her).

the only way I would advice you to not expose him to his wife if this man represent and real threat to your person (like he being a thug capable of attemping against your life), belive it or not there have been some WW here that have been involved with drug dealers (smart women right?)


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah real brilliance. 

OM was exposed about four months into their PA. Apparently the two of them were in a local grocery store downtown (a small town) and one of his kids' friends saw them together. I don't know if they were holding hands or whatever, but the friend told his kid, and it went up the ladder from there. 

I was not with W at that time, and didn't know she was screwing her boss. 

So he "dumped" her in Dec of '09, and they kept it going underground for two more years. Well, 13 months after he "dumped" her, she agreed to be with me, and in three+ months after that agreement, since we'd known each other a long time and I loved her, I offered her my ring, which she took. 

After that it was two weeks later she was once again in bed with him. 

OMW doesn't know, I don't think, about their trysts after Dec '09. She does know he was having an affair.


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