# From engagement (to a uBPD) to driving away in 7 days. Frustrated beyond belief.



## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

First of all, I am incredibly happy that this place exists. This is going to a lengthy post so I apologize in advance. This was written a month ago so please keep that in mind. I will be writing an update soon. I wanted to post it in case anyone has any insights on relationships with a possible BPD partner. 

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I (30M) just moved across the country to be with my gf/fiancee (29F) of 7 months.

I feel like I need to explain out background a little more: We were friends for about 10 years and have dated for the last 8 months. We started out as long distance, but our years of friendship (or so i had thought) made us familiar to each other. We are in the same career field with similar goals. We also come from the same culture (East Asian). I couldn't believe how compatible we were in virtually everyday we carried life. I realize now that I was overlooking some major red flags, in fact over the years she was able to pick out my hobbies and mirror me to a great extent. The honeymoon phase was intoxicating, somehow this beautiful best friend of mine shared everything with me! When the "I love you" came within a few weeks it felt so real. Come to think of it, she asked me to move in by the end of the first month. Huge red flags looking back, but in the backdrop of our friendship, I thought it was kosher

She was always really open with me about her past, even when we were friends. She told me about her physically abusive father, rapes in college (NYC), and how she even worked as a prostitute to pay for her tuition (more on why I know this why this is relevant further down). Of course, all of her previous boyfriends were abusive and I'm the only one that has ever made her feel safe. I'm now recognizing many co-dependent and 'fixer' traits in me

We ran in similar social circles and she was always the wild girl. So why did I pick her? As I neared my 30, I felt like I had changed myself, I am no angel and have my fair share of failures. And I will be honest, she is very beautiful, dresses provocative, has tattoos... You get the idea. She's very exciting and fun. Now that we were both officially single, she came into my life and we gave it a try. she had tried to approach me earlier for a relationship but i turned her down due to being in a serious LTR.

Last November or so, I had an interview at the city she works in. We met up for drinks and one thing lead to another. We hooked up and it was amazing. I told her this felt right, she cried and told me she had been waiting for me all along (i know... hindsight). I left the city and we did the long-distance thing for 7 months. We would talk on the phone nightly and provided emotional support. We met at the end of each month and the sex was mind-blowing and her sweetness was incredible. Looking back, the sex was not intimate, rather it was porn sex, but I was far addicted by this point. Around February she asked me to move in. Again, chaulked our rapport to our friendship and I whole-heartedly agreed. We both had never lived with an SO before, but we were at our most irrational. Hell, she was talking about children and marriage at this time and all I could hear were wedding bells.

To add to the fire, I went out an purchased an engagement ring before moving out. We met each other's parents and everyone was happy for us. I had known her father prior, but he was always demonized in her book. He was actually a really nice man and I will elaborate this in an updated post.

June came and I packed my bags and drove out 2000 miles to be with her. This is was a rural town, but that was ok -- NYC is just an hour's drive away and I would have a car. The night I arrived, I proposed and we fell into each other. The first 5 days or so was what I thought was pure bliss. Lots of sex, sweet talks of futures, and love-bombs. The following day we went to one of her friend's bday parties. She happily showed off her ring and i finally had a chance to meet all of her friends. It was a blast! I think this marriage thing is going to be A-OK.

Now it's 5 days later.

At the end of the month she has a big exam related to her career. I thought I would ease the stresses of daily living and would cook dinners and do some chores around the house. I usually get out of work much earlier and I don't know, I wanted to be helpful. Oh man... she was not pleased at all. I also went out to hang out with her dad at her request... to which she reacted very negatively towards. At this time she started acting very distant and cold. The sex just stopped, when i went in for a kiss she would avert it. One morning she woke up and told me that she felt smothered by everything i was doing, as if i was holding a gag on her. She finished it by saying that I was not who she thought i was. I was taken aback considering we've known each other for all these years! The worst was when she added that she hated coming home to me. This one, even a month later brings back so much pain. I knew something had to change so I sat her down for a talk. I asked her what I could do to change and i agreed to her terms:

1. I'd stop trying to do stuff around the house
2. show her that i'm still passionate about life. i also have the same exam, but at a later date.. i'm just a passive study person, i like to read whereas she likes to discuss the studying material. I now suspect that she was projecting her test anxiety to me.
3. We would take things slower. I had no idea about BPD at this time, and yes I figured the speed at which things were going is definitely too much. Slower and more space sounded reasonable.


I could sense the tension being relieved, but I also started walking on egg shells around this time. I was doing EVERYTHING wrong. She would start nitpicking everything about my character or something i was doing. And the space thing? When I stopped greeting her when she came from work, she was furious that I was neglecting her.

Another example: I was moving a blanket and she snapped at me for why i was taking so long. Another time I mispronounced a name of a grain and she corrected me as she would a 5 year old. This was later met with passionately kissing me goodbye before she would leave for work. I am so confused and insecure in my thoughts

I am tired of this push and pull and feeling unsafe and unwanted in our home. I secretly packed a bag and the scary thing was, it felt OK to be doing that. I had given up my entire life to be with the love of my life. So i had thought. The last morning we woke up and she started berating me about everything. First by reminding me of our talk (ok i get it), from my passivity, to my career, questioning my motives, and how we were moving too fast. about my last vacation in march how much she loved it, but that she hated the hotel we stayed at because it reminded her of her prostitution days (what the heck). She did bring up many good points too, I AM passive and there are many things i need to work on my life. I just kept hearing what was wrong with me and i started to question my beliefs and myself... I knew arguing back would lead to the same circular arguments so i went to another room. Few minutes passed and she followed me to the room.

She gave me back by ring and followed it with a long hug and kiss on the lips.


As much as it hurts, I don't think this is going to work out. This push and pull.. her hiding her phone from me (she never did this) and the berating.. not to mention always scared of when she's going to explode again. 

I've since left and am about 2 hours away at a friend's house. My phone and texts are blowing up from her.. from accusatory to pleading to asking for forgiveness..

I guess my mind is already made up.. but is there a light at the tunnel? Is there a chance to break-up cleanly? I see now how she keeps all of her exes and lovers around. I'm questioning my sanity and her friends are pleading for me to give it another try and this kind of fighting is normal for a new couple. I still care about her deeply and love her, but when i think about how it felt at home... i think it might just be my lust and need to make things work beckoning to me

what happened to the woman I knew the past 7 months? What happened in the last week?

Sorry about the wall of text.. i'm so confused and hurt. Help me find the courage to keep on driving.

---edit: as per the beginning, this was written a month ago. It's been 24 days of no contact and trying to heal and move on. Being back in the company of friends and my support group I know I made the right call, but for some reason, I am still struggling with it. Reading about BPD, I know I must've caused tremendous hurt by 'abandoning' her. And there were lots of real beautiful memories -- When times were good, man they were amazing!


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I will admit I'm biased against long-distance relationships. Check my other posts here and you'll know why. So you may feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.

That said, I think it's very easy for a person to pass as sweet and interesting and stable on the phone. And when you establish this emotional connection based on the person you think you know, when on rare occasion you do get together, the sex can be off the charts. You are not doing the day to day work of living together - literally sleeping together, sharing meals, chores, and financial responsibilities. Basically, it's a fantasy. When that fantasy becomes reality, it can be a bitter pill to swallow. It usually doesn't end well, in my experience. True intimacy is established by doing the day to day living with someone with whom you're truly compatible - mentally and emotionally, as well as sexually. I'm sorry if that sounds boring, but that's really what love is.

Added to that, you're dealing with, I'm sorry, but a drama wh0re. I'm sorry for the trauma and hardships she's had in her life - I know from some of that. But her instability is frightening. You're right about BPD (which I think is a clinical way of saying drama wh0re). I've known a few in my life intimately (three family members and one boyfriend), and I'm here to tell you they will svck the life out of you if you let them.

Driving away - far away - is the right thing to do.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Nope that kind of fighting is not normal!!!

That light at the end of the tunnel (if you go back to her) is the train barreling toward you!

You've said it yourself, you enable. Move out, get your sh!t together and learn to recognize these patterns.

You sound like a great guy and this woman sounds like an ansolute nightmare!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm trying to understand your total lack of concern over the fact that she 1. was a prostitute and 2. is still affected by being a a prostitute (as I'd venture to guess 99% of them are). 

This woman clearly has issues. Do you not see that???


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Step back and look at the craziness.

If this were a friend of yours what wold you tell them?

Its takes two mature people to break amiably, how many do you have?

You know the answers, don't beat yourself up, just move on, you cant fix her.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you all for your response, I am glad that my gut instinct to leave was not wrong. I hope that my alarms were going off means I am still sane.. the gas lighting was very real, there was a moment where we had an argument about the porch light being on. In the end I was convinced i was hallucinating about it, I had to try the switch to confirm that it really was broken.



Nomorebeans said:


> I will admit I'm biased against long-distance relationships. Check my other posts here and you'll know why. So you may feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> That said, I think it's very easy for a person to pass as sweet and interesting and stable on the phone. And when you establish this emotional connection based on the person you think you know, when on rare occasion you do get together, the sex can be off the charts. You are not doing the day to day work of living together - literally sleeping together, sharing meals, chores, and financial responsibilities. Basically, it's a fantasy. When that fantasy becomes reality, it can be a hard pill to swallow. It usually doesn't end well, in my experience. True intimacy is established by doing the day to day living with someone with whom you're truly compatible - mentally and emotionally, as well as sexually. I'm sorry if that sounds boring, but that's really what love is.
> 
> ...


I.. can understand this now. It was so surreal, the honeymoon phase was the most intense I've ever felt. I thought our years as friends was going to be the foundation of us building our lives together. I think it was easy to overlook the future, I know I can not handle a lifetime of this

PS. Thank you for the laughs on the last paragraph. 





Anon Pink said:


> Nope that kind of fighting is not normal!!!
> 
> That light at the end of the tunnel (if you go back to her) is the train barreling toward you!
> 
> ...


Thank you, it's been a month since this actually has happened and I was really struggling with my decision. It means the world to hear confirmation of my gut instinct. It's still a struggle these days, trying to let go of that last sliver of good memories and [false] hope.



SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm trying to understand your total lack of concern over the fact that she 1. was a prostitute and 2. is still affected by being a a prostitute (as I'd venture to guess 99% of them are).
> 
> This woman clearly has issues. Do you not see that???


You know as I was rehashing this story, I couldn't help but be embarrassed. If there is a silverlining it's that I was able to recognize some 'fixer' mentality and co-dependency issues I have. They were definitely making me oversee these things. When she told me these things I could only hear, "help me"

Now a month later I am starting to see the ridiculousness of it all! Seriously I think my jaw dropped at the hotel comment.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Welcome to the TAM forum, Yak. I'm sorry to hear that your ex-fiancee seems to exhibit many BPD warning signs. I agree with you that it is prudent to drive the 2,000 miles back to where you came from.


yakhauler said:


> she even worked as a prostitute to pay for her tuition.


BPD is strongly associated with prostitution and stripping. Psychiatrist Mary Anne Layden states that most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. She states that one study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder and 55% had BPD.... See Incidence of BPD for Prostitutes and Strippers.



> Is there a chance to break-up cleanly? I see now how she keeps all of her exes and lovers around.


If your ex-fiancee actually does have strong BPD traits, it really does not matter whether your breakup was done "cleanly" or left good feelings behind. Because BPDers are emotionally unstable, their perception of you will change greatly depending on how she is feeling at the moment. Hence, trying to build a lasting set of good feelings between the two of you would be as futile as trying to build a lasting sand castle beside the sea. 

Whatever "impression" you left her with on the breakup day, it will soon be washed away by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind. If you doubt this, simply recall how long she was able to remain appreciative of all the good things you did for her and the many sacrifices you made (e.g., uprooting your life and moving 2,000 miles to be by her side). Did that appreciation last for months and months? No way. You were lucky if she retained those appreciative feelings for a week or two at most. A BPDer's "reality" is defined by how she is feeling at this very moment because she is too emotionally immature to intellectually challenge the accuracy of her intense feelings.



> what happened to the woman I knew the past 7 months? What happened in the last week?


If she really is a BPDer, what happened to her is exactly what happens to a four year old whenever her mood suddenly changes. She will love Daddy while he's bringing out the toys and then, in ten seconds, will hate Daddy when he takes one away. 

When people are that emotionally immature, they cannot tolerate strong mixed feelings or ambiguities in interpersonal relationships. They therefore split off those conflicting feelings, putting them far out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why they will quickly flip from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing you) -- and will later flip back again just as quickly.



> Help me find the courage to keep on driving.


Yak, if you're ever strongly tempted to turn your car around and return to her, I strongly suggest you stop and see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply. An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 Warning Signs*_. 

If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your ex-fiancee's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful experience -- i.e., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like the one you left (if she has strong BPD traits). Take care, Yak.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

Uptown, thank you so much for your response, it was actually your posts on this forum that gave me the courage to write out my story to share. There is much I want to ask about your thoughtful reply, but here is one I want to update you on:



> Whatever "impression" you left her with on the breakup day, it will soon be washed away by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind. If you doubt this, simply recall how long she was able to remain appreciative of all the good things you did for her and the many sacrifices you made (e.g., uprooting your life and moving 2,000 miles to be by her side). Did that appreciation last for months and months? No way. You were lucky if she retained those appreciative feelings for a week or two at most. A BPDer's "reality" is defined by how she is feeling at this very moment because she is too emotionally immature to intellectually challenge the accuracy of her intense feelings.


First, yes it was incredibly frustrating, did she not remember that I gave up *everything* to be with her??

Secondly, the washing away... you're absolutely correct! After a few days I had left (I am back in my home state everyone!!!) she called and left a voicemail, it was cheerful and airy as if nothing had happened. "Hey it's me! Just wondering what you're up to, call me when you get this"

I couldn't believe my ears


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Wow, Uptown. You just described my three family members and boyfriend of many years ago I spoke of previously to a tee. And a toxic "friend" some years ago with whom I finally had to cut off all ties because I just couldn't take her constant drama anymore. You're right - it really is like dealing with a four-year-old, or negotiating with a terrorist.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

She *qualifies for everything* on the list of 18 _except_ for:

3.Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members - actually she might qualify for this one as well. My family and friends never really came up, but during her last rage, she criticized my parents for raising avoidant kids (referring to me, my sister, and brother). She also hated the fact that she was never introduced to my friends in my homestate when she visited. So yeah I guess she qualifies for this one too.

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard; She said she didn't want me to be her "b*****". Meanwhile she loved gifts, so..?

7. Low self esteem; she is very high functioning and very bubbly. Everyone at work loves her. And she has many friends, at least from what i saw

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away); She definitely has many friends, I am not sure how close they are? I know she has a small group of friends from HS and college that she still hangs out with to this day. Before I moved in she even went overseas to be part of her best friend's wedding



man. ACtually writing this out, I think she might qualify for all 18 on your list Uptown!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Holy cow, what a whack job!! She complained that you were doing too much around the house?? What the actual fig????

You dodged a bullett my friend, oh wow...what a rollercoaster!


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

Uptown,

Thank you for your input. I went over them again this morning and I know deep down it echoes the logic side of me. It's painful not only to let the romantic side go, but our 10 year friendship before that as well. I initiated a strict no contact and it's been about 25 days now. I'm wondering if I had bailed too early or perhaps I didn't try hard enough. Despite the mountain of hurt feelings, I find myself ruminating over the good times and I can remember them so vividly!

What's worse is that in the no contact, she wrote this extremely lucid apology letter to my parents. Through our time together as friends we had met each other's family and they genuinely really love her. I haven't had the courage to tell them the details yet. It's crazy to think that they were expecting grandkids eventually. In the letter she validated that I was a 'generous soul' and that she is impatient with those that she is closest to. She took responsibility for the hurt and at that moment, I wanted to pick up the phone and let her know it was OK. I really want to, but when the time is ready.

I've been working on my co-dependent traits and I know only she can help herself. I saw that with DBT and many years of hard work, pwBPD can recover, but who knows when that time will come?


I wanted to follow-up in more detail about your list of 18 criteria, it's as if you are describing her perfectly. She was never diagnosed and these are from my observation only:

*1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;* Her dad was definitely split black 99% of the time I've known her. I remember dinners with her parents would always end up with a fight until her dad would usually give up. It's sad really, when I hung out with him (at ex's behest) on a weekend he was a very kind man. He warned me about problems getting worse after a marriage. I had no idea what he meant at the time. Additionally on the day I left he actually called me to ask where I was. I apologized that it didn't work out between his daughter and myself. His response? He was really understanding and wished me all the luck in the world. At the moment I couldn't help but feel sorry for him. To be split black by your daughter must be so hard.

*2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"* This was straightforward, when the belittling and criticisms began she accused me of always being passive.

*3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;* I think I mentioned in the above post. I thought she loved my family, but during one of my last arguments she criticized them for being too smothering. Perhaps she was right, but she didn't have to attack them with harsh words. And I want to point that out, in her anger she did say some things that really hurt. They were loaded with deep personal secrets that I trusted her with.. this is a deal breaker for me BPD or not, and it also gave me the opportunity to own up to my problems.

I'm somewhat of an information addict. When I'm bored I'd be on my phone reading forums or chatting with my friends. She would always ask what I'm reading. It culminated with her exploding and saying I was too attached to material goods (you see our dream is to travel and work in medical missions). I tried to reassure her that as this was our first home together, I wanted to fill it with good things for us while we lived here. It would be at least another 3 years until we graduated.

Anyway last I heard, her dad told my parents (that's what makes it worse, our parents know each other) about how they used the firepit i had built in the backyard.. and how they missed me and how sorry he was to have such a daughter who could cause so much hurt (i was sad hearing that)

*4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;* I learned on bpdfamily.org that I should review actions over words. Come to think of it, there were many instances where holidays and special occasions felt like she gave alot. In reality, nothing ever took place. I don't know if it qualifies, but in her fleeting ways, she seemed to never remember the good things we shared. Only the negative things as time passed.

*5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;* This is perhaps the STRONGEST feature. I can name the exact moment when it all went downhill. Her grandfather had fallen and was sent to the ER. She had worked a full day and I offered to drive her there. I work with physical therapy and know how serious falls can be for the elderly. I had never met the man yet and we both agreed that it'd be a bad place to meet him, so I agreed to stay in the lobby.

Some time had passed and she texted me to come to the ER, the whole family was there and grandpa was A-OK. We hung out until he was discharged, but I could tell she was in an angry mood. She was snapping at her dad. And when I was talking to her grandpa, she would remind me angrily that he can't hear well and that I had to speak up. I tried to soothe her by asking if she was ok, to which she replied, 'no.' and told me something along the lines of her feelings having changed.

Another incidence I remember is when I had left and started driving home. She called from an unknown number and for my work I have to answer all my calls. She was crying and angry which I do not blame her for as I left suddenly and only with a note. She said she knew that I was going to either leave or hurt myself (projection?). She told me the mountain of love she felt for me the prior was all replaced by a chasm and that she doesn't know where it went. This broke my heart to hear, but now I'm realizing that love doesn't work like that..  She made sure to know that I was living in fear and that I was trying to fill that fear with love. I have no idea where that came from. 

Also at this time all the intimacy just stopped

*6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;* haha this is embarrassing. The first few days I was there my car was out of commission due to a flat. I was listening to some podcasts and came across blue apron (they deliver ingredients to you and you cook it). We had fun making it and it was delicious (i dont work for them). When she was angry she criticized me having ordered it. Said it was for dumb geriatric people who couldn't cook, and that I could have easily used her car instead of dumbing myself down. Boy she was angry.

*7. Low self esteem;* she had lots of guy friends and peopel at work love her. But you know what? the provocative behavior, tattoos, big smiles and constant giggling.. it was a facade

*8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;* this one hurts and is related to #5 for me. I was criticized for folding a blanket wrong. When she would kiss me she would make sure to remind me I had morning breath. Bunch of little things would set her off, I started getting anxious when in the same room as her. Hoping to God that she wouldn't get angry. When I would become distant she would apologize for having been too 'aggressive.' I'd take her back only to have it repeat again

*9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;* After I had left, she said she would always care for me no matter what. Wanted me to skype with her nightly. I declined and that was that

Edit: I remembered something, we were on vacation and we had a little tiff. One of her friends was a bit tipsy and was talking about one of my ex's crazy boyfriends of the past. I actually did not mind as I'm aware that everyone has a past, but as she kept going into more detail about a felon my face must have twitched. Ultimately I didn't care, but my ex picked up on this. When we were going to bed that night she started crying and pleading me not to hurt her or to leave her. I had to soothe her at the time, but didn't think much of it

*10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;* EXACTLY! She never owned up to anything, and that's why her letter was so painful to hear about. It was the first time in 10 years i heard her taking responsibility for her actions. 

She was furious at me not studying, but clearly i was. I see that it was her own insecurity about the exam that she was projecting onto me.

*11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);* Reckless driving, alcohol, drugs, and sex. She was always a drinker and part of the reason we met was through that. Drinks and wild parties, but I noticed that even now, she finished a bottle of wine a day.. and as she was devaluing me, i started to join her in hopes it would appease her. It was shameful considering i had almost 3 years of sobriety. I was willing to let that go!

I'd find shooters around the house and around the car. I'd ask her only for her to convince me it was her friend's. I'm so naive at times.

As for sex, her past history aside, i think in the 10 years I've known her she has 30 confirmed hookups. Many of who are mutual friends or co-workers. I get that everyone has a history and that sex is a good thing for everyone. however it's not the number that bothers me, but that I'm realizing that using it was a validation tool is so dangerous. I remember in our early 20s she was taking anti retrovirals and giggling while telling me about it. I was so blinded by the flash of novelty I just nodded along. 

Another thing I remembered, she was pretty proud of being involved with married men. Somehow I thought I would be an exception?
*12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;* Hook, line, and sinker. I listened to tales of abuse all throughout the years. And over those years she would always insert inappropriate lines like, "you're always so good to me, you're the best" 

When we started dating she told me that I let her truly be herself and for her to be the best version of herself. Those words were music to my ears. She would snuggle upto me all the time and tell me how she felt safe for the first time in her entire life. That love is filled with respect, love, and trust that she yearned for. I want to beleive those moments were sincere :crying:

*13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"* Continuing from #12. I realize now that over the 10 years, she was able to pick up many things of mine well. not only were we of the same culture, but somehow she also loved the same museums, art, farmer's markets, and even the obscure film festivals i attend. Who was this dream come true?? She even made the same jokes as me and we would laugh for hours

*14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;* I guess this might be the exception. She is a working professional and is very good at her job. Her co-workers love working with her and she is in a position of high responsibility. I even attended a work function with her and it was a blast! Only if they knew what went on behind closed doors

*15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;* Do emotional punching bags count?

*16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);* Her best friend of 15 years lives overseas. And her many of her ex-partners are now friends that she hangs out with frequently. I know she also keeps in touch with her roomate from 3 years ago, she's a mutual friends and I know they hang out often.

But yes, i noticed that her social circle mainly consisted of 800+ facebook friends (Which she was very proud of and kept hidden from view from other friends on there) and exes

*17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and* YES! I asked myself who is the person that I really miss. I have known her by so many different faces over the years. It's just that this recent relationship made me only remember this.. mirrored version of me. Reserved, quiet, and filled with love.

*18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.*

Yes, even to factual events. Such as a lightbulb being broken. She even convinced me that i had hallucinated the whole thing. I had to check again to make sure I wasn't going crazy.





Whew. so that's that. I apologize for the length, it was a relief to go over this list as I'm really struggling with if she really was sick or not. Or maybe that it's me that is BPD! I feel like I'm going crazy.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

frusdil said:


> Holy cow, what a whack job!! She complained that you were doing too much around the house?? What the actual fig????
> 
> You dodged a bullett my friend, oh wow...what a rollercoaster!


frusdil thank you for the response. In previous relationships or in relationships that I want, it was always a partnership. We would pick up the slack when someone was under duress....

that's why I was so baffled when it occured this time! Thank you for understanding


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm sorry, honey, but she's the crazy one.

If that's not a PC word for it, she's extremely unstable and has psychological issues that all the love in the world won't fix. She needs intensive professional help. And even if she were to get it, her issues may not be fixable.

Don't let her manipulate you by writing "heartfelt" letters to your family. Your family doesn't have to live with her - you do.

I maintain that you should stay far away from this one. I've found with the BPD people in my life that cutting off all contact was the only way to maintain my own mental health. They are relentlessly toxic. In time, you'll get over the loss of the person you thought she was. She is not that person - she actually never was.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I'm sorry, honey, but she's the crazy one.
> 
> If that's not a PC word for it, she's extremely unstable and has psychological issues that all the love in the world won't fix. She needs intensive professional help. And even if she were to get it, her issues may not be fixable.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much nomorebeans for your kind words and echoing the logical part of me. I don't know why after a month of no contact I am ruminating on the few good memories when there are endless painful ones. _Endless_. It's scary to let go of the past 10 years, to have overlooked so many red flags. I'm starting to think perhaps not even the friendship was real, she was always calling me when no one was around.

And you are right about family, that was major boundary crossing, and here I was thinking she really cares about me and them. I'm going to call them up tonight or maybe over dinner let them know I would not like to hear any updates about her.

Thanks again, encouragement from strangers reminds me that human interaction shouldn't be one on eggshells!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Reading this thread just reminded me, no matter how long it took, I needed to divorce my XW. Yak, no matter what happens, you need to keep pushing forwards and divorce this person. If not, you will be constantly dragged down until there is nothing left of you. The years with her were a lesson on not what to accept for yourself.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Methinks you may have been willing to overlook red flags in exchange for beauty and porn sex. Don't feel bad, you're not the first guy to do it. 

The whole long distance to living together to engaged thing was very rushed, it's hard to see who you're really dealing with when you move that quickly. 

Be glad she went nuts before you married her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

toonaive said:


> Reading this thread just reminded me, no matter how long it took, I needed to divorce my XW. Yak, no matter what happens, you need to keep pushing forwards and divorce this person. If not, you will be constantly dragged down until there is nothing left of you. The years with her were a lesson on not what to accept for yourself.



They're not married yet. Better for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Methinks you may have been willing to overlook red flags in exchange for beauty and porn sex. Don't feel bad, you're not the first guy to do it.
> 
> The whole long distance to living together to engaged thing was very rushed, it's hard to see who you're really dealing with when you move that quickly.
> 
> ...


Thanks lifeistooshort. In hindsight yes it was incredibly fast. I was still very infatuated to think that our 10 year friendship was going to somehow make things A-OK. Only if I could go back and tell myself what it feels like to feel unwelcome under my own roof 

I like your perspective that perhaps the upside to all of this was that I got to witness first hand what I was up for. I'm not perfect (as no one is), but it was scary to find someone who was very angry and lonely.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

You dodged a bullet young man. 

Be thankful as this could have gone a much much much worse way.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

romer said:


> You're lucky you got the ring back.


Thank you for reminding me, the day before I left I was in a huge dilemma. At that point I was willing to swallow my pride and let it go... I couldn't put a price on my sanity. When she returned it I think I felt a wave of relief.

Reflecting on it, I realize it could have been something that would've lingered over the both of us had she kept it.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

intheory said:


> Have to repeat what lifeistooshort said. All you were concentrating on was the *intimacy-less, porn sex*.
> 
> I mean, seriously, you got engaged to a woman who used to be a prostitute? From your posts, it doesn't sound like you investigated this too profoundly.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree and thank you for your response. As for the porn sex, you know I thought it was the rapport of our long term friendship and honeymoon phase I was missing, but I'm realizing that I put a huge emphasis on sex, too much.

This story was from a month ago and I've been looking into how I ended up in the r/s in the first place. Because ultimately as toxic this relationship was, it took two of us to make that possible


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

yakhauler said:


> I wanted to follow-up in more detail about your list of 18 criteria, it's as if you are describing her perfectly. She was never diagnosed and these are from my observation only.


Before you graduated high school, Yak, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD warning signs when they are exhibited by a woman you were dating for 7 months.



> I thought she loved my family, but during one of my last arguments she criticized them for being too smothering.


If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), her subsequent hostile attitude toward your family members does not necessarily mean she never loved them. Indeed, BPDers typically treat the folks they love the very worst. It doesn't mean they stop loving those people. Rather, it means that, because they cannot tolerate strong mixed feelings, their subconscious minds have split off the conflicting feeling (e.g., the love) -- putting it out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why, in ten seconds, a BPDer is capable of reconnecting her conscious mind with those loving feelings -- at which time she will instantly flip back to splitting those folks white again.



> In her anger she did say some things that really hurt. They were loaded with deep personal secrets that I trusted her with.


A cardinal rule is to never tell a BPDer any personal secret you don't want shared with your enemies, family members, and friends. My BPDer exW, for example, would quickly forget the good things and sacrifices I did for her. She would never forget, however, my infractions (real or imagined) and my shared secrets. She placed all of those things on a permanent list, which would be pulled out at nearly every argument (no matter how small the disagreement). 

This is done because a BPDer sorely needs continual validation of her false self image of always being "The Victim." Hence, after the infatuation period ends, she usually obtains that validation by portraying her partner as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. There is no easier way to obtain such validation than having ready access to a mental list of the partner's every flaw, mistake, and embarrassing secret.



> She seemed to never remember the good things we shared. Only the negative things as time passed.


BPDers have no incentive to keep a mental list of the "good things" you did or shared. Such a list would undermine her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." BPDers keep a death grip on that false self image -- frequently seek validation of it -- because, sadly, it is the closest thing to a stable self image that they have. That is, their true self image is fractured, unstable, and weak.



> [She doesn't have] low self esteem; she is very high functioning and very bubbly. Everyone at work loves her. And she has many friends, at least from what i saw.


Likewise, my BPDer exW is very high functioning and bubbly -- and is well liked by coworkers and casual friends. Indeed, total strangers find her so disarming and charming that, within a half hour of talking with her, they feel like they've known her for a long time. My experience is that most high functioning BPDers are like this. They exhibit a warmth and purity of expression that is very appealing -- a quality that otherwise is only seen in young children. 

They are able to interact so well with strangers, business associates, and casual friends because none of those folks pose a threat to their two great fears. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.



> She said she knew that I was going to either leave or hurt myself (projection?).


Yes, most likely projection -- if she is a BPDer. As you likely know by now, cutting and other forms of self harm is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. Such harm usually is seen only in the low functioning BPDers. Even HF BPDers, however, occasionally may fall into a LF state when under great stress -- at which time a small share of the HF BPDers may do the self harming.



> She told me the mountain of love she felt for me the prior was all replaced by a chasm and that she doesn't know where it went. This broke my heart to hear, but now I'm realizing that love doesn't work like that.


I agree. Love doesn't vanish in less than a minute. A BPDer's ability to consciously connect with that internal love, however, can be flipped off like a light switch whenever one of her two great fears is triggered. Indeed, that is true for all of us. The main difference, of course, is that the rest of us do it far less often and recover from this "thought distortion" far more quickly.



> She had lots of guy friends and peopel at work love her. But you know what? the provocative behavior, tattoos, big smiles and constant giggling.. it was a facade.


Yes, if she really is a BPDer, the outward show of high self esteem is a charade. BPDers typically experienced so much invalidation during early childhood that they are filled with self loathing and low self esteem. Indeed, they have such a weak sense of self that they often feel very empty inside, not knowing who they are. They therefore live in the fear that, even though their partners appear to love them at this very moment, they will surely abandon them when they discover how empty the BPDers are on the inside.



> She never owned up to anything, and that's why her letter was so painful to hear about. It was the first time in 10 years i heard her taking responsibility for her actions.


If she is a BPDer, perhaps she had what is called a "moment of clarity." My BPDer exW, for example, had about five such occurrences during our 15 years of marriage. They typically occurred during a crisis (e.g., my discovering $5,000 debt on a secret credit card she acquired -- that happened twice). And they typically lasted for a day or two, during which time she exhibited the high level self awareness that nonBPDers have. None of these occurrences, however, had any lasting effect. Nothing. Nada.



> I listened to tales of abuse all throughout the years. And over those years she would always insert inappropriate lines like, "you're always so good to me, you're the best"


If she's a BPDer, you will be added to the list of abusers when she is talking to her new BF. Everything acknowledge in that letter will be forgotten. Moreover, she likely will genuinely believe her outrageous claims about you being abusive. To a BPDer, the intense feelings constitute self-evident "facts." My BPDer exW, for example, is telling all my step kids that I fabricate a new lie every week and that I physically abused her. And she believes it.

This is not to say, however, that she hasn't tried repeatedly to get back together with me. Indeed, even during the 18 months she had a R/S order filed against me to protect her, she got together with me several times at various places around town. So, at some level, she believes I'm dangerous and a liar. And, at another level, she simply doesn't care about that particular thought distortion. Like I said, a BPDer's reality at any moment in time is what intense feelings she is experiencing RIGHT NOW.



> When we started dating she told me that I let her truly be herself and for her to be the best version of herself. Those words were music to my ears. She would snuggle upto me all the time and tell me how she felt safe for the first time in her entire life. That love is filled with respect, love, and trust that she yearned for. I want to beleive those moments were sincere.


If she's a BPDer, she most likely was extremely sincere. During the honeymoon period, her infatuation convinces her that you are the nearly perfect man who has come to rescue her ("The Victim") from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. At the same time, you were providing her with the self identity she had long been seeking.



> *Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction....* I guess this might be the exception. She is a working professional and is very good at her job. Her co-workers love working with her and she is in a position of high responsibility.


It is common for HF BPDers to excel in many demanding professions, e.g., nursing, medical doctors, professors, politicians, and psychologists. As I noted above, HF BPDers are not triggered by strangers and business associates as long as those folks do not draw close enough to threaten their fear of abandonment and engulfment. Hence, HF BPDers typically do not need the partner to provide a "sense of direction" in their professional lives. Where it is needed, instead, is at home in the personal lives. 

As you describe for your ex-fiancee, she excels at work and is a mess when trying to handle a close LTR -- because she can't stand it when you draw close (engulfment fear) or when you draw away (abandonment fear). For that reason, and because a BPDer has little sense of identity, she will seek out a mate having a strong personality to provide that identity and sense of direction in her private life. Yet, when you provide EXACTLY THAT, she will start resenting you -- after about six months or so -- when her engulfment fear returns. She will feel that you are controlling and suffocating her. 

Of course, when you back off to stop triggering that fear, you will unavoidably start triggering her fear of abandonment. That's what happens when a person's two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. It's a lose-lose situation no matter what you do because no Goldilocks position exists in the middle.



> She even convinced me that i had hallucinated the whole thing. I had to check again to make sure I wasn't going crazy.... I feel like I'm going crazy.[


Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they might be going crazy. The result is that therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out whether they are losing their minds -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Plus if she were hiding her phone and would not let you see it, cut off the sex and became distant, always kept old boy friends around.........speaks for itself.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I will probably be in the minority here and say that a week is NOT sufficient to even begin to consider BPD. The push pull pattern runs in cycles and you need a few to establish even a suspicion of BPD.

Granted given her history it's not a bad idea to consider but a week of push behavior isn't enough to establish BPD with any certainty.

I think stress from her exam may have been at play or when she saw you in her home turf she saw a different picture. All causes for concern. But you're done so it's all the past now.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

john117 said:


> I will probably be in the minority here and say that a week is NOT sufficient to even begin to consider BPD. The push pull pattern runs in cycles and you need a few to establish even a suspicion of BPD.
> 
> Granted given her history it's not a bad idea to consider but a week of push behavior isn't enough to establish BPD with any certainty.
> 
> I think stress from her exam may have been at play or when she saw you in her home turf she saw a different picture. All causes for concern. But you're done so it's all the past now.


John117, thank you for your response, could you elaborate? This was also thought of mine. The speed of everything, the exam, and new life adjustments is difficult for anyone.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

BPD goes in push pull cycles, AND STAYS THAT WAY. And the idea that after one week she's done, kiss on the lips and bye bye, isn't BPD typical. She would have tried to create enough space by pushing but not pushing enough to cause a permanent riff.

Also the cycle starts small and escalates slowly - frog in boiling water - not instantly. 

Don't just look at the symptoms but also look at the frequency and magnitude. Patterns. That sort of thing.


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## yakhauler (Jul 7, 2015)

Wow uptown.. thank you so much! I want to have that level of insight one of these days. You hit her description to the T, even down to the timeline



> after about six months or so -- when her engulfment fear returns. She will feel that you are controlling and suffocating her.


It's uncanny how her engulfment fears came right around this time. Granted as per what John said, the speed of the moving-in and engagement certainly would be much for anyone to handle.

thank you again!






Uptown said:


> Before you graduated high school, Yak, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD warning signs when they are exhibited by a woman you were dating for 7 months.
> 
> If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), her subsequent hostile attitude toward your family members does not necessarily mean she never loved them. Indeed, BPDers typically treat the folks they love the very worst. It doesn't mean they stop loving those people. Rather, it means that, because they cannot tolerate strong mixed feelings, their subconscious minds have split off the conflicting feeling (e.g., the love) -- putting it out of reach of their conscious minds. This is why, in ten seconds, a BPDer is capable of reconnecting her conscious mind with those loving feelings -- at which time she will instantly flip back to splitting those folks white again.
> 
> ...


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