# New Development



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, my stb-x herniated a disc in her spine last weekend. I moved back in this week to help her with the kids and all the snow. Besides, my place has been without electric so I told the kids we were trading child care for shelter (which is true in a way).

I am cooking, cleaning, taking care of the toddler, shoveling snow. My girlfriend, of which she knows nothing about, is bugging me to get out of the house, that it's not good for my psyche.

It's true - I cried a lot yesterday. . .it was like being thrust back into the family life I lost. . .almost like when you have a death and when you have a dream about that person and he/she is still alive. I thought I was done grieving but we were driving home from the hosptial and we had a pleasant conversation and it brought back good memories and I broke down. She asked what was wrong but I said nothing.

That and the fact she never appreciated all I did and here I am thrust into doing it again - being "Mr. Mom."

It's surreal being here yet I don't want her to hurt herself worse. She is in intractable pain and I don't want the boyfriend in here with the kids and her parents can only do so much. I guess we'll all have to get on a schedule to take care of her and the kids. I do feel really bad for her - she's walking around slumped over in pain and sometimes vomiting it from it, all doped up.

Any advice of how to handle it when a stb-x gets ill or injured and there are kids involved (or not)?


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

You are a very nice person, you are doing a nice thing for her and your kids.....
I know that she will really appreciate you and all you do for her..
You are doing what you need to do, could you really just "Not Help" 
Even though you are on your own now and she is as well, you will always have that place in your heart for her.....
Don't worry about your girlfriend or the boyfriend, they will understand this is not a normal situation and you are looking after your kids interests here.....
Just enjoy your time together with the kids.......
good luck


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Jesse,

Thanks for the compliment and you'd think she'd appreciate it but I get no inclination my presence is appreciated. She has said an obligatory thank-you a few times but that's about it.

She has a huge control problem and has always had a huge one in our marriage so I can't say I am really surprised or hardly hurt anymore by how she treats me. She lost a lot of control the last couple days. She is doing better today. I worry about her, and so do her parents, but I know I'll just have to leave soon. I am warning her (I am a chiropractor so I know about herniated discs) that if she continues to lift and execute maneuvers that she shouldn't that disc could press on the nerve further than it already is and then she'll need surgery.

What are you going to do, right? I was actually thinking of calling her boyfriend up and seeing if he can talk some sense into her. 

She asked her parents not to visit after I broke the silence and contacted them after 7 months. I was kind of hoping to hand her off to them with child care.

I feel like I am kind of hostage here - the kids are just sort of liking it that Dad is helping Mom and she's just walking around stooped over and trying to pretend the injury isn't there.

Frustrating conundrum.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

What a wonderful person you are...

You are doing this for the children. Their mother is ill and they need care and they need their mother! 

It's difficult to see someone in such pain. All you can do is encourage to take care of herself. She isn't your wife anymore. Maybe she'll listen to her own doctor more. 

As far as your girlfriend, I'm sure she isn't happy. You need to set your boundaries (you may have already). Tell her that you will help your ex in this instance and you don't want to hear about it anymore. It's too stressful on you to get pulled at this point.

Know that you are helping someone important to you. She may/may not appreciate it but let be her problem

Kuddos to you!!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

My girlfriend is very understanding but losing her patience and is afraid I am enabling the situation.

It's a fair criticism.

She thinks if I am going to help, there should be some ground rules - she gets medical attention, tests, avoids provoking the injury, etc. because I am not her husband anymore.

I am thinking I may exit tommorrow and I'll give the oldest one my cell phone # and tell him to call me any time he feels she can't handle it - physically or emotionally. Be on cal vs. being there.

My luck I'll be out to dinner with my Valentine and that's when the phone call will come through.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm leaving tonight and being on call.

Very difficult week all around. Memories flooding back of family life and such. I must admit I didn't comprehend that fully when I figured I do this.

One thing is clear. . .I can tell the kids have been craving 1 on 1 time with Dad vs. me hauling them away, the 3 of them, every other weekend and basically "Mothering" them.

I need to father them and that requires 1 on 1. My conclusion it's easier to mother en groupe but I can't effectively father an 18 month old, a 7 year old, and 12 year old in a small little trailer. Yes, I could get a bigger place, probably a double wide, but they are still away from their friends, their home, their environment.

And I think I am right in the kids are entitled to 1 home, not 2, in divorce.

I think I am opting for personalized visitation with each of them on a weekly basis vs. the standard boilerplate every other weekend with all of them. This may thwart boyfriend-time, but I really don't care. Maybe I can take them all every once in awhile but this "every other weekend 'Dad-time'" isn't working out until I am on my feet.

I'll be consulting with my attorney and report back here for any who are interested, to see if this is legally possible. I think it is. . .I don't think I have to take all 3 them or none of them.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

I'de be real interested to hear what you work out; my situation is still way behind yours, but one of the things that consumes me at this point is not being able to tuck my kids in every night. Every other weekend seems impossible.......
good luck


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't understand why you don't ask for 50/50, if not now, then to begin at some point in the future. I guess with a toddler it is tougher, but at some point, you can and should have them in your life at least half the time. It's good for them and for you. Absent some compelling reason, courts are very likely to grant it.

We kept the kids at the house and took turns with them there. It is a viable option if you have a small apartment you share (not at the same time, of course), or if you can find other, inexpensive housing (a roommate in an apartment, for example). It's worth the sacrifice while the kids make the transition to having only one parent at a time. We are continuing this way and will put the house on the market in the spring, about one year after our separation began. We'll continue until the house sells. It's been really good for the kids. Think about it. Your wife could provide childcare while you work, and on "your days," she leaves when you get home.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I tried to implore her for a "collaborative" arrangement, where I come into the house during my days and she leaves and actually I stay on as part owner (38%) and when she decides to sell someday, then I would take my proceeds at whatever the market value of the house was (minus the mortgage balance).

No go. . .she wants control of the domicile so I am getting bought out.

I was even willing to pay above and beyond child support to maintain the household.

Still no go.

Come to find out the ulterior motive was really so she could move her boyfriend in in a manner of time. Really, that is her right, when she buys me out. . .to replace Dad/hubby with her boyfriend.

So, my reaction is really to let her have her way (what choice do I have really?). . .take her payout, pocket the money, sit on it for awhile, and orient the child visitation to what is to the kids' benefit and my benefit. 

Bond with them 1 on 1.

Remember I have 3 boys - very spread apart and ages and all require different types of fathering. The older ones require the "fishing", "lawnmower", etc. kind of Dad. The baby just requires diapering, feeding, I take him to the pool on our personalized Daddy Day right now (I get him MOnday night and return him Wed. morning).

I"m going to tell you, hyndsight. . .every situation is very different. No two are alike so I wouldn't judge you as I hope you wouldn'g judge me.

I have never been one to say all my parenting experience has to be "Fun". I mean, for years, I took the kids to the doctor, gave up extra shifts to be with them, helped out with sicknesses, laundry, cleaning, disiplining, etc. I know that's part of the deal of parenting. I am rebuilding my career and financial stability.

But to take them away every other weekend, stuff them into a small apartment, trailer, whatever downsize fathers usually have to do during divorce away from their enviroment, their friends, their toys, their familiar beds. . .NOT FUN. Where I used to enjoy my moments with my kids, frankly, I dread them. And they dread it too - they are bored, they pick at each other, there's nothing to do and frankly, with the toddler, I can't entertain them nor should I have to.

There you have it.

So, I am not going to do it until I am able to carve out a place of my own.

My wife has been totally flattened by this philosophy. When she said she didn't want to get back together, she said,

"Okay, this is how it's gonig to be - you'll get them every other weekend (even though I work weekends a lot), you'll have to change your career, you'll have 2 overnights a week."

No.

It's not like that at all.

She glamorized divorce as "extra babysitting time/me time" and that's not what it is. I *was* the babysitter - now I am concentrating on fathering and only fathering, not mothering. Fathering requires mentoring, not so much nuturing.

She argues with me a lot that all the other Dads take their kids away but you know what? She was speaking of one particular friend of the older one. . .and as far as I can tell, he goes with Dad and his new wife every other weekend and he doesn't really get any personalized time. It's just a different house away from his friends. And guess what? The kid's a little a c#ck. My boys are polite, well educated and mannered (for the most part - the middle one is precocious), and generally well adjusted boys. And I would take at least some of that credit. So, her argument falls on deaf ears with me.

I really don't care what the other Dads do.

Anyway, I do hope it evolves into more time with them. . .I really do. I want it written into the custody agreement that when they reach 15 years old, that they have the *choice* to come spend summers with me at the beach and get a job for college. Doesn't mean they have to, but a choice. And she can have visitation. 

She's balking at that.

(you see the control problem? it's either her way, the boilerplate way, or no way - it's fine for a father to have visitation and not be the primary parent but 10 weeks the mother not be the primary parent? Well, she just couldn't deal with it - well, she will have to)

But my financial situation takes precedence. Cold reality of divorce. It sucks. I would hope any woman reading this takes this into account before deciding to divorce the "nice guy" they aren't in love with anymore and go be with Bad Boy.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Let me add one more thing. . .this is probalby what is kind of most heartbreaking - being replaced by boyfriend as a new father-figure in their life and so quickly.

And frankly, with them as a "new team", he can father more effectively.

I end up "mothering." No one is on my team. So he gets to do lawnmowers, snow shoveling, take them skiing, all the Daddy stuff while she's still Mommy.

See what I mean?

You see why my strategy has to change?

So I may have the one boy 2 evenings/week, the other 2 evenings, and the baby every Tuesday. Let him work to support the household while I bond with them and not be baited into getting a household I can't afford and one they really don't want to be in anyway. 

I am trying not to be competitive and I am sure there's a little of that naturally in there but until I find a "stepmom", which isn't for awhile I'm sure and I have a "new team", I need to be with them 1 on 1.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Not judging at all scannerguard, just trying to face the harsh reality of things to come. My 3 are D2, B6, and B8. I would love more than anything to keep primary in the family house w/me, but realize financially impossible. Heck, at this point niether one of us are even in the position to buy one or the other out. So it's live in a tent and spend as much time with them as possible, or look into securing my financial stability in the near future, and try to work towards more quality 'fathering' in the long run? sucks that $ has to play such a big part. All we can realy hope for is an acceptable compromise and that our kids will always understand how important they are to us.....


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hyndsight,

No, I didn't think you were judging. . .it's just been traumatic to sometimes to hear other people judging. There's a good book I can recommend that's downloadable "Men and Divorce". . .if you p.m. me, I'll send you the link. I get no cutback but it was the best $50 I ever spent.

Men really have a whole different set of concerns and traumas that women don't have (they have their own unique ones too - don't want to downplay theirs).

I can only think of it like an earthquake victim. All of the sudden you've lost your home, your family, your spouse and you are sitting in a shelter (apt., parents home) with an attorney with his hand out. you may think your best friend is your attorney but really, it's not. Family law is interesting in that really, the outcome of your case is probably pre-determined already. that's not to say that your attorney isn't important. . .not at all. I use mine to consult with regularly. . .but having him/her negotiate for you - waste of time and money. It changes nothing and only serves to enrich both sides. Child support is pre-determined by the state and you want to basically just keep forcing your ex-spouse back to the bargaining table. Avoid court and treat it like a business transaction because really, for all our lamenting here at this forum, legally, that's all it is really.

Anyway, back to teh kids - one ponit the book makes is that really the laws with child visitation are there to serve you and have come a long way for fathers. I am not sure. . .I will be consulting with the attorney this Thurs, but I think I can basically get what I want.

And if you harbor some secret desire (most men do - it's okay) to get your kids the most amount of time to reduce child support. . .don't make that a primary motivation. It may shave a couple bucks off a week but all in all - the freedom to rebuild yoru life is more important that shuffling them off for some mandatory Dad-time that you probably both will resent eventually.

But if you are able to carve out time and want them overnights, by all means do that. You mention tucking your kids in was important to you. . .by all means - go for it. I am not advising you against it. To me, one-on-one time is more important. I am more just a "throw 'em bed at night" kind of Dad, for better, for worse. If you are a tuck 'em in bed and read a book kind of Dad, and are able to provide a small home for that kind of activity, then go for it.

But there's nothing wrong with opting for visitation/non-overnights vs. physical custody. The laws are there to protect your non-custodial parents needs (more importantly, the kids needs, who need a strong relationship with their father).

Think about everything. . .freedom vs. child-rearing. Do you want to be able to take that weekend fling in Mexico? Do you want to be able to marry the type of girl you should have married in the first place? Get a second job to provide for college for them? Freedom is more important then. If you want to be with your kids and create a second home for them, then go for the shared physical custody.

Remember. . .despite all the pain of divorce, and it is very, very painful, you are getting freedom. 

While I will alwyas have the ball and chain in my life (mostly emotionally), you are about to be emancipated.

My kids like their home. I see no reason to provide a second one for them. they just need me, not a second home.

I'll try to check back often to help you through as I have plowed a path forward a little ahead of you during this painful journey.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks for your words of encouragement SG. I see your point about freedom, and could warm up to that, but still feel somehow that I would be neglecting my responsibilities. Not realy true though huh. I guess it is more about compromise, and choosing the one that includes all aspects, rather than basing it on a purely emotional decision. I think I facetiously told my wife once "don't logic stand in your way of decision making!" Ironic.
I've actually been to the 'Men and Divorce' site before. Got the feeling it was another overpriced do it yourself book, think I'll take a second look. I've been more seriously looking at D as a buisiness deal, and the part about giving my lawyer thousands of dollars to file some paperwork bothers me. Even considered an online 'divorce kit', and just using him for advice....realy as you say, the biggest 'issues' in a divorce have to be worked out by h/w.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

scanner: That was a great post! I can't agree with you more.

Figure out what is most important to you and TRY to negotiate with your spouse. TRY to leave out the emotion when you meet with your spouse. Make it a business meeting. 

I did EXACTLY this with my ex. We met several times, over the last 3 months prior to our divorce (Jan. 6). I knew exactly what I wanted and negotiated from there. I gave a little but there was one point that I would not. I told him clearly "this is non negotiatable." For 3 months I stalled and kept my point clear..."you don't understand...this is important to me and I don't want to negotiate on this."

Finally, a few weeks before D day....he relented. I think I wore him out. Plus, add his guilt in with it all and he caved. Either he wanted the divorce uncontested or not. Fortunately, our oldest is 15 and custody/visitation was easy-we are super flexible but still have a general schedule.

The attorneys won't do you many favors but recite the law and guide you. Mediation is good but you must have an idea of what you want ahead of time and bend a little.

Anyway, I hope it all turns out well. As well as can be expected.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Thank you for the words of encouragement and compliments.

I am not going to play saint - it is REALLY REALLY hard sometimes to figure out what your motive is. . .my happiness, the kid's happiness, maknig the ex- somewhat content. It's hard. . .I love my children but I dno't think I am ready and will be for awhile to provide a second home for them. 

But I am at peace with that, even if the ex- isn't.

I have mixed feelings on the mediation process. Yes, it's a better alternative to the usual contested way. Much cheaper. I liked our mediator but I often felt he just kind of sat there and said, "Well, you'll have to work it out." when we were stalemated.

I ended up caving in on a lot of things throughout mediation in the name of compromise. . .my share of the house, I self-imputed my income higher, and then I got a custody agreement I didn't really feel comfortable with. . .but at $350/hour, you want to move along so I would say, "Well, okay. . .I guess I'll take 'em every other weekend." (when I worked a lot of weekends in healthcare)

Now. . .I am leaving it behind, taht part anyway, because I was never really happy with overnights. He would dangle, "Well, you get a credit on child support." and based on the book and reality, I would say, "It really doesn't mean that much to me. . .a few dollars."

That being said, mediationi does provide a good template for how a "compromise" can be fashioned. . .it's kind of like a "practice outcome" and I use for a reference point often when i am thinking of alternatives. My attorney read the memorandum from the mediator and said, "Reading between the lines, it sounds like she nickeled and dimed you." If you know my stb-x. . .that's about it. She's getting 62% of the house based on a premarital contribution from 15 years ago. . .because my mediator said, "There's no way as a judge I'd give you 50%." My atty. vehemently disagrees saying that money from 15 years ago has long "transmutated" into the partnership money. But we are onlly talking a $20,000 difference so I didnt' make a big deal out of it.

I guess a lot of it depends on the judge you get too. . .you get some female liberal judge who sees men as the big, bad meanie, you could be in for an adverse ruling.

All in all, I think collaborative divorce is better, where you have a mediator and an atty. representing both sides and then you reach a mutually agreeable compromise. Otherwise, one party ends up kind of getting a biased outcome in strict mediation.

I wanted us to do that. . .but she said it was too far to travel to the one firm that specialized in it. It figures - just goes to show how much she valued the marriage - didn't even want to bring it to a equitable conclusion and invest some energy in it. Well, that's the way it was when we were married. How could I expect any different.

Well. . .she's in love now. . .and I have all the time in the world. I told her to talk it over with her boyfriend on how they can make me happy since they want to spend the rest of their lives together. I dno't care if it drags on for 2-3 years. They can even picture me sitting between them in bed saying, "Make me happy." LOL.


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