# Dig's Guide to Being a TRUE Alpha



## SomedayDig

Being Dig, I figured I would like to expand on Athol's work...



*Dig's Guide to Being a TRUE Alpha*​
1. Stop talking about being alpha. The more you talk about being alpha the less alpha you are.

2. Instead of puffing your chest up and making sounds like Tim "the Toolman" Taylor, understand that a real alpha male doesn't NEED to exert dominance. Because he's already dominant and secure in it.

3. A true alpha recognizes that the world lives on homeostasis and understands if one is not inherently alpha...his fakeness will spiral the wrong way.

4. The smallest dog barks the loudest.


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## Almostrecovered

5) be who you are and someone will love you for who you are, confidence in yourself is the most important thing you can do


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## Almostrecovered

6) the best leadership is done by example, not by giving orders


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## Almostrecovered

7) Do not be afraid to ask for what you want, but realize that you won't always get it


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## SomedayDig

Some guys NEED this "biological" pseudoscience to claim women are pre-programmed to want to pick the alpha as her mate.

Understand that women have free will. Kind of like us men. I mean, are we THAT dominating that only WE have a choice in life?! That's ridiculous.


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## Almostrecovered

always have an ample supply of duct tape in the house


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## SomedayDig




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## Almostrecovered

look both ways before readjusting your package


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## Cosmos

Lowering the bar by playing mind games with your partner's trust and self-esteem does not make you an alpha... It's only a matter of time before that sort of game will backfire and you - then it's a lose / lose situation.



> Dig said:
> 
> 4. The smallest dog barks the loudest.


The bigger dog has little need to bark at all. His very presence says it for him.


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## SomedayDig

All of this stuff is "based" on how the PUA website says...In animal hierarchy the alpha male is the dominant one and they get that status by killing their rival.

Problem is...that's only in captive wolves.

The reality of Alpha Status in wolf packs


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## anchorwatch

Almostrecovered said:


> 6) the best leadership is done by example, not by giving orders


This^^^^^^^^

A leader has confidence in himself, that is why people follow him when he steps out.


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## SomedayDig

Cosmos said:


> Lowering the bar by playing mind games with your partner's trust and self-esteem does not make you an alpha... It's only a matter of time before that sort of game will backfire and you - then it's a lose / lose situation.
> 
> 
> 
> The bigger dog has little need to bark at all. His very presence says it for him.


Yes...because when these Sally Alphas ply their trade, they will certainly get laid (I made a rhyme!). However, they will get laid by their female counterpart who is just as dominating and coniving as they are. Hence, any attempt at a true and real relationship will be doomed.


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## Almostrecovered

SomedayDig said:


> Yes...because when these Sally Alphas ply their trade, they will certainly get laid (I made a rhyme!). However, they will get laid by their female counterpart who is just as dominating and coniving as they are. Hence, any attempt at a true and real relationship will be doomed.


or worse get someone with no sense of independence and that either gets boring fast or they stray to the next faux alpha that comes along


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## SomedayDig

By the way...in case anyone needs a biology class, my wife - Regret - is a biology teacher and a bio/chemist. She can give a brief class on the differences between human beings and wolves. Hence, the two are comparing apples to oranges, especially when discussing modeling behaviors.


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## Almostrecovered

but we're both mammals and we both lick our balls


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## strugglinghusband

You keep your word, even if you have to eat ****, you keep your word, a hand shake is better than any thing written on paper.


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## SomedayDig

Almostrecovered said:


> but we're both mammals and we both lick our balls


A feat unattempted is my fail...


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## azteca1986

SomedayDig said:


> By the way...in case anyone needs a biology class, my wife - Regret - is a biology teacher and a bio/chemist. She can give a brief class on the differences between human beings and wolves. Hence, the two are comparing apples to oranges, especially when discussing modeling behaviors.


Have you read MMSLP? There s some useful information there. Your use of 'homeostasis" is right on the money.

Anyone obsessed with 'Alphaness' isn't by definition.


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## SomedayDig

Yes, I read MMSLP. Matter of fact, a few weeks after my own Dday, Regret ordered that, Survive Her Affair by Kevin Jackson and NMMNG. She did that on her own months before we came to TAM. While I see where some of the information is good for some people (not just guys) who are out of touch with themselves...in other words, people who stopped looking inward instead of outward for positive feelings...I think a lot of it is bunk.

Like my feelings about Dr. Harley. Some people say he is the ONLY guy to read when your marriage is touched by infidelity. So, Regret bought one of his books, too. I read the first chapter, saw that he put too much heavy lifting on the betrayed spouse and littered them with guilt, so I tossed it.

In the end, the truth is...whatever floats one's boat.

Just don't try to piss and tell me to float MY boat in it


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## Almostrecovered

you sank my battleship


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## SomedayDig

....heeeere....diagonally....


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## joe kidd

I've recently started peeing on pidge's leg before she leaves the house to mark my territory. That makes me mega alpha.


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## Soifon

I have a dominant female "alpha" dog and she mounts other dogs ALL the time. So does that mean if I'm an alpha female human I need to run around rubbing up on beta males?


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## SomedayDig

joe kidd said:


> I've recently started peeing on pidge's leg before she leaves the house to mark my territory. That makes me mega alpha.


Dammit, Kidd...you made me almost spit out my breakfast. Nachos and Jack - it's not just for breakfast anymore.


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## SomedayDig

Soifon said:


> I have a dominant female "alpha" dog and she mounts other dogs ALL the time. So does that mean if I'm an alpha female human I need to run around rubbing up on beta males?


Well...according to the pseudo-science which models humans after wolves, then yes.

However!! I recommend sitting there in your female alphaness and looking hot.


EDIT to say: Not you looking hot personally...I'm speaking figuratively. Lest anyone think I'm alpha posturing while Regret is not here.


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## Soifon

SomedayDig said:


> Well...according to the pseudo-science which models humans after wolves, then yes.
> 
> However!! I recommend sitting there in your female alphaness and looking hot.
> 
> 
> EDIT to say: Not you looking hot personally...I'm speaking figuratively. Lest anyone think I'm alpha posturing while Regret is not here.


Well now that confuses me. If I were to follow my dogs example she runs around the dog park beating up all the other dogs and humping all the males. She is cute but she doesn't just sit there waiting for them. 

I also don't take her to dog parks any more because she is a total wh0re about it.


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## SomedayDig

Since this is my thread, I'm gonna derail for just a moment...

"Because some people are hotter than others, there is a simple ranking system we all use to find suitable sex partners. The hottest people mate with the other hottest people, the mid-range hot people with other mid-range hot people, and so on. It’s best not to over think things, and simply think of everyone being on a 1 to 10 scale of hotness."

That's Athol's commentary on the so-called "sex rank". Let's delve further into his world where he talks about guys running the "MAP" to make yourself "alpha" and therefore, somehow, magically "better".

"When you run the MAP, one of two things will tend to happen. Your wife will start responding better to you sexually and your relationship will improve, or as your Sex Rank starts to pull away from hers, your relationship will fall apart. However should your relationship fail, you will still be vastly more attractive than you were, and in a much better place to find a partner that will connect with you. Either way, you can win."

Seriously?! What kind of swooshbaggery is this?! Run this MAP thing, up your sex rank and if your wife leaves you then its a win?!

And people buy this sh-t. Monetarily and mentally.


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## LadyOfTheLake

swooshbaggery is my word of the day


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## Faithful Wife

Another alpha tip: Real men who know their worth do NOT blame women (mommy, teachers, wifey) for all of their life's problems and mistakes. They own them. 

And tip #2: Real men who know their worth know that women are sexual beings and they do not need to be tricked into having sex. Any man who has to find ways to coerce a woman into bed with him is still working under the assumption that women hold all the power (ridiculous) and these men find ways to steal that power (via conquest) versus actually being desired by a woman.


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## SomedayDig

LadyOfTheLake said:


> swooshbaggery is my word of the day


And it doesn't get censored or get you into trouble!


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## sinnister

SomedayDig said:


> All of this stuff is "based" on how the PUA website says...In animal hierarchy the alpha male is the dominant one and they get that status by killing their rival.
> 
> Problem is...that's only in captive wolves.
> 
> The reality of Alpha Status in wolf packs


Didnt read you link yet, but I saw a documentary that was supposed to revolutionize the whole Alpha debate in wolves.

They observed that in the wild, the pack is led by a team of Alpha male AND female! Very enlightening.


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## SomedayDig

Sinnister...that's pretty much it, man. When the young wolf grows up he doesn't challenge his alpha father. Instead, he moves on and finds a mate and starts his own pack. It's almost like a 60's/70's commune ideal to be honest. Altough, there are some right wing nut cases who'd call them Socialists and disavow everything about a true wolf pack!!

LOL...that last sentence is just me being silly, FYI.


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## sinnister

SomedayDig said:


> Sinnister...that's pretty much it, man. When the young wolf grows up he doesn't challenge his alpha father. Instead, he moves on and finds a mate and starts his own pack. It's almost like a 60's/70's commune ideal to be honest. *Altough, there are some right wing nut cases who'd call them Socialists and disavow everything about a true wolf pack!!*
> LOL...that last sentence is just me being silly, FYI.


I wouldn't doubt that. LOL


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## SomedayDig




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## azteca1986

This is pulled from the newly deceased "Beginners Guide" thread. It illustrates perfectly the pseudo-science of these articles but at the same time that confidence is more than half the battle.



> 2. Be verbally dominant.
> 
> <snip>
> The problem is that talking too much is too much Beta for most women. Women don't find a man who talks a lot appealing unless he's brimming with Charisma and knows how to entertain when he speaks.


Translation: If you don't have charisma, can't be charming or even manage to be interesting I'm about to convince you that this doesn't matter. These traits are really all BETA and a bit girly.




> The reason that the "strong, silent type" creates such a condensation problem in panties is because of the silent, as much as the strong.


Ha ha ha. Righhhhtttt. It has nothing to do with if you're very attractive you only need to take someone's hand and master the words "We're leaving". Admittedly I've never tried this because I'm clearly not ALPHA enough. But it has happened _to_ me. Presumably because I'm BETA.



> Laconic men seem more serious to a woman, and when you think about our prehistoric forebears, there are good reasons for this. The "strong silent types" would have been superior hunters to the "chatty, whimsical type", and therefore better providers.


Pseudo-science Alert! All this hunting and caveman imagery is clearly seductive to the right kind of person. 

Strangely, this is how the hunt played out in my mind:

[Chatty, whimsical type]"Right lads! You three stoic types (ALPHAs)... you hide in the bushes over there. When we scare the the quarry toward you, remember to keep the pointy end pointed toward the quarry.
The rest of you lads follow me. When we're in position, yell when I yell."

You can imagine the relative life expectancies of the chatty BETAs vs the stoic, pant-wetting, ALPHAs when a panicked wooly rhinoceros is added to the mix.


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## SomedayDig

There is a fine line between self-confidence and arrogance. That is the line I constantly think of when I read these silly "alpha" commentaries. See, I was a good pilot. I know this because I trained very hard to be the best pilot I could be. Every co-pilot and even co-captain that I ever flew with complimented me on my handling of my aircraft.

However, I have seen sooooo many pilots who pea**** (really...that is censored?! LOL) around the airport...making sure that everyone within sight and earshot knew that they were a pilot.

Most of them couldn't land without a bounce or jolt. They man handled the controls and flew ham-fisted.

A fine line between self-confidence and arrogance.


Don't even get me started on the idiotic f'ng comments about "panty condensation" cuz I'll easily counter that with hard ons simply looking at breasts and behinds.


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## Cre8ify

Interesting conversation, but complicated. Best indicator of alpha is if you have a poker group...that she can't wrench you out of short of a death in the family...with bourbon...and cigars...and no car keys.


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## LadyOfTheLake

I didn't even know I was Alpha till I started reading these threads. Yup, an alpha female.


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## SomedayDig

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I didn't even know I was Alpha till I started reading these threads. Yup, an alpha female.


BINGO!

But don't tell them that, cuz all they'll do is call you a "feminazi". In other words - they're f'ng terrified.


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## ScarletBegonias

Thinking I'm a good mix of both.People who know me can tell me if I'm wrong


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## TiggyBlue

I have to admit when I came on this board I thought WTF are they on about (have studied wolf packs and hierarchy), what is described as 'alpha' and 'beta' traits couldn't be further from the truth.
It took me awhile to realize that someone attempted a semantic change to suit what they wanted to sell.
Also think many like to think human's run the same as a 'wolf pack'.


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## SomedayDig

It certainly seems to sell a lot of e-books, though Tiggy!! LOL

Truth is, that's why I posted that paper published about studying wolf packs in the WILD...not in captivity.

As my biologist wife commented about it last night, the reason the wolves in captivity act in this "alpha" way is that their gene pool is a closed system, whereas the true wolves in the wild have an open system. There's no end to the female wolf supply.


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## Kobo

This need to label everyone and every action is way out of control. Half the time people equate being an a$$ to being an "alpha". Now women here and elsewhere are "alpha" women. Yeah, the ultimate way to show your equality with men is to follow their stupidity.


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## sinnister

Kobo said:


> This need to label everyone and every action is way out of control. Half the time people equate being an a$$ to being an "alpha". Now women here and elsewhere are "alpha" women. Yeah, the ultimate way to show your equality with men is to follow their stupidity.


So true.

It's a construct filled with so many variables it's just crazy to attempt to label it.


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## ATC529R

say what you mean and mean what you say.

don't apologize for being who you are.


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## Faithful Wife

That's why I call myself a fuzzy bunny!


Be who you are!!! LOL!


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## Created2Write

SomedayDig said:


> Being Dig, I figured I would like to expand on Athol's work...
> 
> 
> 
> *Dig's Guide to Being a TRUE Alpha*​
> 1. Stop talking about being alpha. The more you talk about being alpha the less alpha you are.
> 
> 2. Instead of puffing your chest up and making sounds like Tim "the Toolman" Taylor, understand that a real alpha male doesn't NEED to exert dominance. Because he's already dominant and secure in it.
> 
> 3. A true alpha recognizes that the world lives on homeostasis and understands if one is not inherently alpha...his fakeness will spiral the wrong way.
> 
> 4. The smallest dog barks the loudest.


I agree. And, honestly, I think the issue is that too often people focus on _words_ rather than _principles_. The principle of being more "Alpha" is one I agree with for both men and women. Both genders can be over-the-top people pleasers and doormats, and that is unattractive in both genders. Nothing is more attractive than confidence, true confidence. And I think, for insecure people, the issue is desperation. For me, when I've struggled with insecurity, I was desperate for anything that would fix my problem as quickly as possible. But that, in and of itself, is insecurity! Not being willing to take the time and effort and work to truly break the insecure mindset and find its root cause. 

Words like "alpha" and "beta" are good descriptors of basic principles, but when taken too far they become repulsive. One specific poster who talks about being Alpha comes off as incredibly misogynistic in his posts, and then blames feminism and women when women don't like what he says. But what he fails to realize is that women _are not_ his enemy. Sure, there are women out there who take feminism too far. I've met some myself who've gone from wanting equality to wanting men to suffer, calling them swine, etc. And frankly, I will agree that that attitude is slowly becoming more prominent among certain types of women. 

However, that does NOT justify disrespecting women by seeking to dominate or control relationships with them. As a woman married to a very confident man, a man who leads our relationship(fyi), I can attest that the one reason I am comfortable being lead by him is the simple fact that he *respects me and my feelings and opinions*. I have a major issue with porn. It's a deal breaker for me. I'm here, ready and willing to make love with you; you don't need porn. My husband respects that and agrees, and so doesn't watch it. My husband respects my opinions. He doesn't say, "I'm making the big decisions" and then shove me aside; he includes me in all discussions, especially the big ones, since those kind of decisions will effect us both. So, I should have a say as well. My husband doesn't do whatever he wants when he wants just because he's a man, and then expects me to stay at home doing the dishes and vacuuming. He actually loves me and wants to spend time with me. And likewise, I'm never having more fun than when I'm around him. I don't need "permission" to hang out with my friends, and nor does he. We respect each other and let the other know, "Oh, by the way, tomorrow so and so is coming over at such and such a time." 

This is, really, all women ask for in a relationship. Sure, some women want to be put on pedestals. _I_ don't. I don't think most women do. We just want to be treated the same way that men want to be treated: with respect, with kindness, and with love. If a man wants to better himself, by all means, go for it. But make sure that these changes, and being more "alpha" isn't actually suffocating your relationship. Because, frankly, if my husband treated me the way one certain male "alpha" poster sounds like, I wouldn't stick around for 24 hours. I'd be gone in a flash, and not because I'm a woman and I need to be worshiped, but because I'm his _wife_ and I expect to be treated with respect. 

Thank God my husband really is Alpha and doesn't have to control everything to get an erection.


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## Created2Write

SomedayDig said:


> Since this is my thread, I'm gonna derail for just a moment...
> 
> "Because some people are hotter than others, there is a simple ranking system we all use to find suitable sex partners. The hottest people mate with the other hottest people, the mid-range hot people with other mid-range hot people, and so on. It’s best not to over think things, and simply think of everyone being on a 1 to 10 scale of hotness."
> 
> That's Athol's commentary on the so-called "sex rank". Let's delve further into his world where he talks about guys running the "MAP" to make yourself "alpha" and therefore, somehow, magically "better".
> 
> "When you run the MAP, one of two things will tend to happen. Your wife will start responding better to you sexually and your relationship will improve, or as your Sex Rank starts to pull away from hers, your relationship will fall apart. However should your relationship fail, you will still be vastly more attractive than you were, and in a much better place to find a partner that will connect with you. Either way, you can win."
> 
> Seriously?! What kind of swooshbaggery is this?! Run this MAP thing, up your sex rank and if your wife leaves you then its a win?!
> 
> And people buy this sh-t. Monetarily and mentally.


It's not sh!t, though. It's a rule of certain kinds of relationships. People who've been overweight for long periods of time often run into this in their marriages and/or friendships. When one person in a group begins to better themselves, whether it be physically or mentally or emotionally, it can make the people around them feel very uncomfortable; particularly for the ones who are also insecure. The people who are already confident and secure in themselves will, most likely, see the changes as a good thing, whereas the ones who aren't so confident might pull away or end the friendship altogether. 

It happens in marriages too. A man or woman becomes comfortable in the routine they have with their spouse, even if the relation is less than healthy, so that when their spouse begins to change and become more assertive, more confident, more healthy, they will sometimes recognize their own major flaws. If they're not ready to deal with those, they may leave. 

I've seen it happen in relationships many times. And it sucks to see a relationship end because one person wasn't willing to better themselves. But in the end, isn't that best? I would hate to be married to someone who didn't want to fix their issues.

But that's just my look on it. But I've always believed that we should strive to better ourselves as much as we can, and if the people closest to us don't like that? Well, they obviously don't want me to succeed, and I'm better off without them anyway.


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## Cosmos

> Created2Write: Thank God my husband really is Alpha and doesn't have to control everything to get an erection.


And, like my SO, probably doesn't have to do so to earn your respect, either!


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## Ikaika

Marry a woman and not a girl and you won't have to spend your time trying figure out ways to manipulate her thinking to make her more attracted to you. 

But, alas, you have to be a mature male to differentiate a woman from girl.

ETA: this is not to excuse any guy to continue to be that mature man. You don't marry to gain a maid and nanny.


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## Created2Write

Faithful Wife said:


> Another alpha tip: Real men who know their worth do NOT blame women (mommy, teachers, wifey) for all of their life's problems and mistakes. They own them.
> 
> And tip #2: Real men who know their worth know that women are sexual beings and they do not need to be tricked into having sex. Any man who has to find ways to coerce a woman into bed with him is still working under the assumption that women hold all the power (ridiculous) and these men find ways to steal that power (via conquest) versus actually being desired by a woman.


I definitely agree, but everytime I see the word "coercion" used in a negative sense, I feel the need to add that seduction(which is technically a type of coercion), for me, is ALWAYS welcome. I desire my husband a lot, and can pretty much be ready to go at any time. But being seduced is the single most enjoyable sexual experience there is, for me. Flirtation, passionate kissing, building the anticipation....nothing better.


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## Created2Write

Cosmos said:


> And, like my SO, probably doesn't have to do so to earn your respect, either!


Nope! A man who has to control and dominate the relationship isn't Alpha; is as Beta as Beta can be, because only an Alpha man trusts his woman enough to let go and say, "Let's run this relationship _together_." 

And ya know, I'm not perfect. I get upset. Last week I had a facial to go to, and twenty minutes before, the slit in the back of my skirt ripped all the way up my backside. I was so fuming angry. The town we were in had no clothing store at all, so I was SOL. Luckily, a lady at the facial had a slip I could borrow. But during those few minutes when I thought I would have to go talk about makeup with my butt showing to the whole world, I was pretty rude to my husband. Not intentionally, but my filter had been broken. I was angry and felt like crying and was freaking out. It was all I could do not to scream. And once I had calmed down, I immediately apologized to him. I owned my mistake. Told him I would try not to let it happen again. Said that my filter needed to be made of sterner stuff, and that I'd make it up to him by giving him a massage. 

And he was fine! He didn't need to control me. He didn't need to put me in my place. In fact, if he had done so, it would have infuriated me even more. He saw I needed space, so he did what he could to help, and let me be. And it was fine. 

People need to be allowed to make mistakes without the threat of punishment in a relationship. Otherwise, it's not love leading the relationship, but control. And when one person has that "control", there's another person seeing themselves as a subordinate or inferior; NOT healthy in a marriage.


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## SomedayDig

Created2Write said:


> It's not sh!t, though. It's a rule of certain kinds of relationships. People who've been overweight for long periods of time often run into this in their marriages and/or friendships. When one person in a group begins to better themselves, whether it be physically or mentally or emotionally, it can make the people around them feel very uncomfortable; particularly for the ones who are also insecure. The people who are already confident and secure in themselves will, most likely, see the changes as a good thing, whereas the ones who aren't so confident might pull away or end the friendship altogether.
> 
> It happens in marriages too. A man or woman becomes comfortable in the routine they have with their spouse, even if the relation is less than healthy, so that when their spouse begins to change and become more assertive, more confident, more healthy, they will sometimes recognize their own major flaws. If they're not ready to deal with those, they may leave.
> 
> I've seen it happen in relationships many times. And it sucks to see a relationship end because one person wasn't willing to better themselves. But in the end, isn't that best? I would hate to be married to someone who didn't want to fix their issues.
> 
> But that's just my look on it. But I've always believed that we should strive to better ourselves as much as we can, and if the people closest to us don't like that? Well, they obviously don't want me to succeed, and I'm better off without them anyway.


The only reason I call it "sh-t" is because this guy is saying go work on your "sex rank". Either your wife will respond to your newfound "manliness" or she'll not. Your marriage will survive because of this or it won't.

Either way it's a win.

THAT...is what I am calling sh-t on.

Are we so superficial and shallow that this silly notion of "sex rank" is going to drive or divide our marriages? I think not. 

Trust me, I understand the betterment of oneself and I think that it is paramount to any person's life, but to think that this so called "sex rank" stuff is supposed to govern it...I call sh-t.


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## Created2Write

SomedayDig said:


> The only reason I call it "sh-t" is because this guy is saying go work on your "sex rank". Either your wife will respond to your newfound "manliness" or she'll not. Your marriage will survive because of this or it won't.
> 
> Either way it's a win.
> 
> THAT...is what I am calling sh-t on.
> 
> Are we so superficial and shallow that this silly notion of "sex rank" is going to drive or divide our marriages? I think not.
> 
> Trust me, I understand the betterment of oneself and I think that it is paramount to any person's life, but to think that this so called "sex rank" stuff is supposed to govern it...I call sh-t.


Honestly, I don't get calling it "sex rank" either, but I think it's meant as more of an "attractiveness level". And trust me, as a woman, I can tell you that certain men are more attractive than others, and that does _not_ only include looks. The single most unattractive trait a man or woman can have, imo, is insecurity. A lack of confidence. His intelligence, his sense of humor, his physical appearance, his job, how much money he makes, his car...none of those things will ever compensate for insecurity. Whereas, a man who works an average job, makes an average amount of money, isn't hot, isn't super smart or funny or interesting, can be incredibly sexy just by being confident and sure of himself. 

Like Dwight Schrute from The Office. Call me crazy, but he exudes sexuality because of his extreme confidence, and he's A MORON. 

And yes, I absolutely think that bettering oneself, and upping ones attractiveness will either renew sexual passion in a marriage, or intimidate the other spouse out of it.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

According to Athol:
"When you run the MAP, one of two things will tend to happen. Your wife will start responding better to you sexually and *your relationship will improve, or* as your Sex Rank starts to pull away from hers, *your relationship will fall apart*.

Wow! What a frickin GENIUS! NO WONDER he's an "expert"! He's right EVERY TIME! :smthumbup:

I can see *WHY* he's getting rich giving men ADVICE that's always right; he can always predict the outcome! :rofl: :rofl:


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## SomedayDig

He's amazing. I wanna so be Alpha like him.

Gag.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I think this is the PERFECT theme song for Athol & the Alpha Horde! Lyrics are PERFECT for them!

The Jungle Book - I wanna be like you w/lyrics - YouTube

Although Big Bad Voodoo Daddy has THE MOST AWESOME version of this song!

Big Bad Voodoo Daddy - I Wanna Be Just Like You - YouTube


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## Created2Write

His advice is geared for a specific kind of issue that certain men face. Not every man is going to glean any wisdom from Athol's advice. Just like not every couple is going to glean wisdom from _5 Love Languages_ or _His Needs, Her Needs_. But the fact remains that there are still great nuggets of wisdom in those books, even if they seem pretty basic and obvious. For some men, Athol's advice helps them gain confidence in a relationship where they were once being doormats, or accepting a sexless marriage. Not every man is going to relate to those situations. 

A lot of men here have testified to _Married Man Sex Life_ helping them on different levels. It's important to remember that before we knock something entirely.


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## Wiserforit

An alpha doesn't speak in acronyms.

An alpha does not memorize pick-up and game terminology.


If you don't want to bounce on landing you run your Alaska Bushwheels down to 4 psi coming in. Roll over rocks as big as mailboxes. 

Co-pilot joke: Captain has a heart attack mid-flight. Co-pilot has to take over for landing. He's talking to other co-pilots at the FAA lounge after coming in, and everyone wants to know. "How could you tell he was dead?"


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## SomedayDig

Created2Write said:


> His advice is geared for a specific kind of issue that certain men face. Not every man is going to glean any wisdom from Athol's advice. Just like not every couple is going to glean wisdom from _5 Love Languages_ or _His Needs, Her Needs_. But the fact remains that there are still great nuggets of wisdom in those books, even if they seem pretty basic and obvious. For some men, Athol's advice helps them gain confidence in a relationship where they were once being doormats, or accepting a sexless marriage. Not every man is going to relate to those situations.
> 
> A lot of men here have testified to _Married Man Sex Life_ helping them on different levels. It's important to remember that before we knock something entirely.


It begs to ask the question: What are his credentials? He has none, except that he "was" a geeky dude who was on the verge of bankruptcy and decided to find a way to do something really smart...write an e-book. It took off. It took off because there are a lot of people out there who _needed_ to believe what he was selling. Kind of like people who suddenly find religion and buy a bible. They quote it and breathe it and if you don't agree...then you're going to hell...aka "beta".

Sorry. I don't buy into his religion.




Wiserforit said:


> An alpha doesn't speak in acronyms.
> 
> An alpha does not memorize pick-up and game terminology.
> 
> 
> If you don't want to bounce on landing you run your Alaska Bushwheels down to 4 psi coming in. Roll over rocks as big as mailboxes.
> 
> Co-pilot joke: Captain has a heart attack mid-flight. Co-pilot has to take over for landing. He's talking to other co-pilots at the FAA lounge after coming in, and everyone wants to know. "How could you tell he was dead?"


Tell me you fly the bush! One of my dreams is to one day spend a month in Alaska and learn how to really fly.

And thanks for the joke!! That made my morning take off on a good note.


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## Caribbean Man

SomedayDig said:


> It begs to ask the question: What are his credentials? He has none, except that he "was" a geeky dude who was on the verge of bankruptcy and decided to find a way to do something really smart...write an e-book. It took off. It took off because there are a lot of people out there who _needed_ to believe what he was selling.* Kind of like people who suddenly find religion and buy a bible. They quote it and breathe it and if you don't agree...then you're going to hell...aka "beta".
> 
> Sorry. I don't buy into his religion.*


And if you don't buy into his religion but condemn anyone else who does, then what's the difference between you and him, or those who " find religion and buy a bible?"


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## SomedayDig

Caribbean Man said:


> And if you don't buy into his religion but condemn anyone else who does, then what's the difference between you and him, or those who " find religion and buy a bible?"


A good point on my hypocracy. I humbly accept it.


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## WyshIknew

I think where the book scores for me is that it couches the terms in some sort of (pseudo?) scientific manner.

It's not your fault that your wife is not attracted to you, it's because your sex rank is low.

It sounds so much better to the male ego than saying you are fat, lazy, ignore your wife, munch pizza and burgers, play WOW all night then expect to roll on top of your wife and roll off five minutes later.

So losing weight, getting trim, exercising regularly, dressing well, taking care of your appearance and presenting yourself in a confident manner is going to make your wife/girlfriend/other women more attracted to you.

Really? No shet Sherlock.

I've read the book and thought it was a reasonably good read and can see where it helps (as Created2write mentions) a certain type of guy.
I've taken out of the book what I thought was good and left the rest.
I rather let the side down as after reading the book I started doing a few more beta type chores around the home.

My wife calls me her c0cky Balpha cook. The perfect (for her) mix of beta and alpha type traits.


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## SomedayDig

WyshIknew said:


> It sounds so much better to the male ego than saying you are fat, lazy, ignore your wife, munch pizza and burgers, play WOW all night then expect to roll on top of your wife and roll off five minutes later.


Which is why I think as an entrepreneur, he is a smart dude.

And I totally get your post about the why's of the book's success. That can't be argued. I just argue the pseudo science stuff and peddling that idea of "if your wife doesn't keep up with your sex rank and you split up then it's still a win" thing. I simply feel it's shallow thinking.

But that's just me.


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## SomedayDig

I chucked out the Harley book not Athol's book. I have it on my laptop.

You seem to be pretty angry having these ideals challenged... LOL. So much so, that you feel an overwhelming need to rag on me personally. Show me where I've called any one person out in such a personal way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In_The_Wind

I believe Mr.digs issues with Harley stem from the way Harley says the bs should grovel and admit
All of the issues that they did to contribute to the affair. That is hogwash I believe the other person is the one that should do the heavy lifting. Harley also comes across as a salesmen a little too slick for some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

That is precisely my issue with the Harley plan.


Let's see, your spouse has an affair and the betrayed is supposed to show their "worth" by making "love deposits" in the way ward's love account???


Ummm...no. I ain't buying it.


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## SomedayDig

By the way...lest anyone not wish to "listen to the rantings of a guy whose wife cheated on him for five years", I like the No More Mr. Nice Guy, Survive Her Affair by Kevin Jackson and the Divorce Busting series by Michele Weiner-Davis.


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## WyshIknew

Dig, do you think it is a good idea to recommend the book MMSLP to a freshly cheated on doormat?

It's obviously not an ideal tool but it is the only viable one that I've seen.
Just so long as it is not touted as a 'design for life' but as a wake up call for some guy who has just let himself go.

I think one of the big problems is that some people have alpha blinkers on and see the solution to everything as "be more alpha".

I think you can be a 'beta' type guy but still take no crap.

I can foresee a whole planet of 'alpha' males all trying to be more 'alpha' than everyone else. Gawd, what a thought.


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## SomedayDig

I would suggest Survive Her Affair (A Man's Guide to Healing & Dealing When Your Wife Cheats) for one big reason...it was written by a guy who's wife had an affair. It's pretty in your face and helped me a ton only weeks after discovering my wife's affair. Months before I was even at TAM.

"Be more alpha"..."Man up"..."File - you don't have to go through with it"...while they might help some people, they are a blanket and it sometimes seems that some posters say the same blanket statements every single time a "FNG" shows up.

Oddly...they don't really say the same to the female betrayed, but that's for another topic.

See - (sorry - ranting guy again) I'm of the mindset that if someone is an alcoholic, what do you think 99% of the people are gonna suggest to that person? Yeah! Get into AA and go to group meetings.

Well...what if the person is phobic of groups or simply their personality type just doesn't work that way?

It happens. I know quite a few people who overcame their addiction to booze without a single AA meeting. They're still dry.


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## Wiserforit

SomedayDig said:


> Tell me you fly the bush! One of my dreams is to one day spend a month in Alaska and learn how to really fly.


It's almost all I have ever done. I didn't bother getting a license the first 13 years. I just bought a citabria instead. I practiced diligently and worked with a couple of the best bush pilots up here, then got into supercubs with all the extreme Alaska mods. 

I have a PA-18 that can take off in 20 feet if there's a headwind. It's roll-out on landing that is the limiting factor. But you can skip off the water before you come in on a gravel bar to land. 

I'm done with it now. It used to be thrilling, and even a couple of bad crashes didn't put a dent in my enthusiasm. Having kids changed everything. Put the fear of death in me. 


Insofar as the "How to be an Alpha" literature it is difficult to have a discussion with the fans of it. The world and history is full of leaders to emulate without ever having read one iota of this stuff. No jargon to memorize, and no acronyms. The creation of a pretentious vocabulary is a symptom of bloviation, not science. If you are a student of logic you can also see through a lot of the fallacies, particularly begging the question/circular reasoning.

If you become an alpha then people will look up to you as a leader. If you up your sex rank then women will find you more attractive. If I weigh more then I will be heavier, which is to say my fat rank has been increased.


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## SomedayDig

It's funny Wiseforit, that's exactly the way I've heard it. Most people in the bush don't ever have a license because it is simply a way of life. It's like driving a car.

As for your proficiency in short field take offs...I am impressed beyond words. At KGFL once, we were getting ready to depart. A Husky was ahead of us. He took the runway for departure, turned sideways and took off just past centerline.

To say my mouth dropped wide open would be an understatement. Lucky for me, my co-pilot was working the radios that day as I was so at a loss for words!

To your other point, as a student of logic that is half of my problem with this stuff.


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## Wiserforit

SomedayDig said:


> As for your proficiency in short field take offs...I am impressed beyond words. At KGFL once, we were getting ready to depart. A Husky was ahead of us. He took the runway for departure, turned sideways and took off just past centerline.


Heh, yea a Husky can jump. Can't slam them down though, that's the one thing about supercubs. Tough, tough tough.

There's ability of course, but it is mostly the extended wings, extended flaps, vortex generators, borer prop, and higher compression engine conversion doing the work. I didn't land at airports much, but one time I was in Palmer and the winds were really stiff coming off the Knik Glacier. I didn't want to taxi crosswind so I went into the building first to ask the traffic control guys if they would report me to flight standards for taking off in-place from the tie down. 

They said no, you are pilot in command and the winds are bad so go for it. I stood on the brakes and hit the gas because you can stand the tail up on a tail-dragger if you have enough prop to do it. Instead of standing the tail up, the ship just lifted off the ground. That's the only time it has ever happened.


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## SomedayDig

Awesomeness!


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## MeditMike80

So basically, writing over 290+ posts about being alpha doesn't really make you alpha? Huh, who would have thunk it. 

I think a lot of guys here consider their actions and themselves to be alpha but in actuality they are really just betas - the worst kind of betas, those who think their actions are alpha. 

A lot of the stuff I read about guys being alpha, especially from one poster in particular, isn't alpha behavior - its borderline emotional abuse. The best example of beta-wannabe-alpha behavior that is borderline emotional abuse are: being extremely controlling (i.e., the "alpha" makes all the big decisions, the "alpha" allows the spouse to occasionally go out with their friends, the "alpha's" marriage has huge problems if there isn't sex x-number of times per week).

To me an alpha is confident enough to trust their spouse 100% until they are given reason not to trust their spouse. As others have said, and I feel it's important to reiterate, talking about alpha doesn't make you alpha. Alphas are alphas by their behavior alone. I think most alphas are born alpha and it's very very hard for betas to make that jump to alpha successfully. In the long run, the majority of people are probably a healthy mix of both.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

Here's the deal with alpha and beta, that a lot of people here don't understand. Same goes for gamma, delta, lambda, sigma, omega. They are letters from the Greek alphabet, that were used in the beginning based on wolf hierarchy, but quickly evolved way beyond it. We could just as easily use Type A, type B males etc, but that wouldn't sound as cool, and well... if you're doing something, why not add some eccentricities into it.

So let's move on to Behavioural traits and Personality types. Which are vastly confused as interchangeable, but are not. For example, saying someone cannot be an Alpha male, because from time to time he shows Beta traits, is a gross misunderstanding of the dichotomy of the behavioral trait categorization.

Traits(for men):

-Alpha Traits: This is what triggers dopamine response within a woman. They are devoted to physicality, assertiveness, leadership, social dominance, healthy genes, raw sexual energy, power and at times even violence. They are generally what would have been needed when there wasn't technology and civilization around.

-Beta Traits: These are what triggers oxytocin/vasopressin response within a woman. They are devoted to things that are good for raising children in the modern age like having a work ethic, building the nest, kindness, parenting skills, listening, holding a job, controlling anger and sexual energy, being artistic, verbal skill and creativity. They are what's needed in a modern relationship(sexual, non-sexual, job-related etc).

Personality Types: This is where it gets confusing, because alpha and beta is used again here.

-Alpha Male: We can describe this person as someone who has an excess of alpha traits, but not enough beta traits to compensate that. So loads of attraction, not enough comfort and bonding. Alpha Males are exciting, fun, intense and engaging. Not only do they spark a woman’s sexual interest, they spark her romantic interest as well. The positive version is that of an inspiring protector and the not so positive version is simply a thug. 

-Beta Male: We can describe this person as someone who has an excess of beta traits, but not enough alpha traits to compensate that. Triggering comfort is these guys thing, making panties wet... not so much. I am exaggarating of course, as beta males do have alpha traits(albeit small amounts), they can trigger attraction, but weaker and for shorter amounts of time than an Alpha male. The positive version is the man that provides for and supports his family; the negative version is the man that gives away all relationship power to the woman and turns himself into her “***** whipped” servant.

-Gamma Male: The sweet spot for LTRs/marriages. Generally, this person is an Alpha male who has toned down the antics and settled down a bit or a Beta male who has "grown some balls". Enough alpha traits and enough beta traits make a relationship healthier, but of course the mix isn't exactly three spoonful of alpha and 10 pinches of beta. It has a variance rate. Most of the men in succesful really LTRs are Gamma males and nearly all of the MMSLP followers are trying reach this spot, which I find a worthy endeavor. In fact, weird as this may sound, most romance novel protagonist males are based on the Gamma Male concept.

Note: This(Athol's) version of Gamma Male is different than the one in Vox's sociosexual hierarchy, which can be summarized as an omega male with high IQ. 

-Omega Male: A male that is devoid of adequate levels of both traits. Only a very, very desperate woman would choose such a man. Not much can be said about this category, other than "God have mercy on their soul" cause, well... sucks to be them.

We can summarize the traits and personality types like this. If you want more, buy the book, read the blog, join the forum  . Beta traits aren't bad, alpha traits aren't good, they are tools, they all have their place and should be considered as such.

Although Alpha and Beta traits can sometimes contradict, as in the "can get sex as much and from as many woman as I want" Alpha trait and sexual fidelity beta trait, it's generally not a zero sum game, and should not be considered as such. Something that gains you 2 points in Alpha traits and makes you lose 10 points in Beta traits is not a win for you.

Categorization is needed to understand stuff better. Whether you think categorizing people is wrong or right doesn't matter. Because it works and it is necessary. Without it, we would have lesser understanding in attraction, bonding, the brain chemicals that go with them etc.

I do understand the confusion over this topic as there are a lot of authors talking about this topic. But in the end, Athol's identification of them beats others as it is more usable in relationship terms. Glossing over and insulting a whole subset of self-help and relationship advice just because they use a different terminology and have a different understanding, is not only unhelpful but destructive to that subsets growth and maturation, as it is surely to deviate any people in need of help from that subset.

Whether you are an alpha, beta, gamma, omega, doesn't matter. Saying you are born that way and just staying is just another form of laziness. Changing in time can and should be happening. In the end, the journey becomes the reward.


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## RandomDude

Well, by that description SN...

Then I was raised as a beta until 12...
Then became alpha/omega until 18 (I say omega because for the most part, I was a nutcase in my teens, very violent and anti-social to most people, some alpha traits were there, was fit, had no fear, no remorse, even had my own crew back in the day... but still OMEGA)

Hehe, I was the ALPHA and the OMEGA 

Then past 18 I toned down the omega by overcoming my anti-social personality disorder, embraced some beta that I lost during my childhood, kept up my confidence and leadership skills, and found myself rather successful in dealing with life once I turned legit.

But then I met my STBXW, and over the years... became...
Gamma -.-

And have proven to be unsuccessful in LTRs, so there! I think I'm just fked


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## Caribbean Man

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Whether you are an alpha, beta, gamma, omega, doesn't matter. *Saying you are born that way and just staying is just another form of laziness. **Changing in time can and should be happening. In the end, the journey becomes the reward.*


:iagree:
I wish I could like this part of your post more.
Very well said.
And IMO, it is the worst form of laziness , a mental disease that seems to be endemic amongst modern man. 
Yes, it affects ONLY MEN!
Because women don't think like that. They are steadily climbing the ladders of success, fighting to create a better future for their offspring ,even though they struggle daily against barriers placed in their way by circumstance of their gender.

Any man who thinks like this deserves whatever " misfortune " fate dishes out to him and should have the decency to at least invest in a coffin and a burial spot whilst he's alive so that he doesn't continue to be a burden on society, 
Even in death.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

RandomDude said:


> Well, by that description SN...
> 
> Then I was raised as a beta until 12...
> Then became alpha/omega until 18 (I say omega because for the most part, I was a nutcase in my teens, very violent and anti-social to most people, some alpha traits were there, was fit, had no fear, no remorse, even had my own crew back in the day... but still OMEGA)
> 
> Hehe, I was the ALPHA and the OMEGA
> 
> Then past 18 I toned down the omega by overcoming my anti-social personality disorder, embraced some beta that I lost during my childhood, kept up my confidence and leadership skills, and found myself rather successful in dealing with life once I turned legit.
> 
> But then I met my STBXW, and over the years... became...
> Gamma -.-
> 
> And have proven to be unsuccessful in LTRs, so there! I think I'm just fked


Well, as I recall, your STBX was sort of abusive and a little bit BSC, so that doesn't count  You may just be unlucky.

On the other hand, a %100 alpha male would be something like narcissistic and antisocial PSDs combined and he would probably end up in jail very quickly. If categorized you would still be considered an alpha in your teen years. You were confident, leader to others and sometimes violent.

I don't think you were omega at all. To be an omega, you would have to be a slob with a pessimistic attitude, extremely insecure, with no sense or idea of how to behave at all.


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## RandomDude

Heh or, most likely - I just learnt the lessons too late. Like hell, the lessons I learnt here on this forum took me 2 years to sink in. But even then I changed too late - the damage was already done and my STBX changed from the woman I used to love to the very thing she herself used to despise.

I also would have thought ASPD = omega no? But if being an omega is being a slob/pessimistic/insecure... then guess I wouldn't have survived past 14 if that was the case lol

But then again, I had no sense or idea how to behave around normal people at that age either - in fact, I couldn't communicate with anyone outside of my closest mates, and was quite inherently hostile to people I didn't know, especially "squids" and "squares" - normal folks who just "didn't understand" our little world back then.

Isn't that an omega trait?

As for gamma... well I don't know what I am, now I'm confused =/
But if "more balanced and experienced and grown up from stupid mistakes" fits the gamma label, then that's me.


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## Cre8ify

Shadow Nirvana and Caribbean Man have finally pulled it apart. We are born a certain way and do not evolve and become conditioned by our experiences? That's ridiculous and I would agree that failing to evolve is extreme mental laziness. We make many choices and wise men inform those choices to move them toward achieving goals. If that goal is becoming a more compelling leader, exercising power, and pursuing personal objectives in the face of naysayers...that is becoming Alpha.

Perhaps this is most threatening to someone who is choosing to stand pat with the hand he was dealt.


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## SomedayDig

Again...look at my link - one that was an actual SCIENCE publication about this "wolf hierarchy". This alpha wolf stuff was written about wolves in _captivity_. In other words, they are in a closed model. No other females are introduced and the gene pool is, as their world...closed. Of course they must fight and do the alpha thing.

However, in the real world...the real outside world of wolves, these so called "traits" are not seen. As a matter of fact, it is quite the opposite in that the wolves work together in their system. As a young wolf "grows" and becomes more "alpha" he does NOT fight his father for control of the pack. He strikes out with a fairly equal female wolf and _starts his OWN pack_.

That's why I can't and don't buy into this "science" of Alpha-ness. It's based on a closed system and gene pool as opposed to the true, ouside BIG world.


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## SomedayDig

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Whether you are an alpha, beta, gamma, omega, doesn't matter. Saying you are born that way and just staying is just another form of laziness. Changing in time can and should be happening. In the end, the journey becomes the reward.


I've always lived by a simple rule and it's life as a shark. If a shark stops swimming...it dies.

Never stop swimming. Never stop growing.

I totally believe EVERYONE should strive to improve themselves, however just as politics and "gun control" and abortion and every other hot buttton issue out there - _some_ take it to extremes and refuse to believe anything else, even when given disputing facts.

As CM pointed out my hypocracy yesterday with my commentary about Bible Thumpers (my term), sometimes the message gets muddied by the wrong person presenting it. Like a certain poster who was banned lately...


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## Soifon

I don't understand why men have been connected to _wolves_ in this way at all. Who determined that? Why don't they put as much stock into how penguin males and females interact, or elephants, or giraffes or even a praying mantis. We are humans and comparing how we interact with each other based on a study of another species makes no sense, especially when each species behaves differently.


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## SomedayDig

SomedayDig said:


> By the way...in case anyone needs a biology class, my wife - Regret - is a biology teacher and a bio/chemist. She can give a brief class on the differences between human beings and wolves. Hence, the two are comparing apples to oranges, especially when discussing modeling behaviors.





Soifon said:


> I don't understand why men have been connected to _wolves_ in this way at all. Who determined that? Why don't they put as much stock into how penguin males and females interact, or elephants, or giraffes or even a praying mantis. We are humans and comparing how we interact with each other based on a study of another species makes no sense, especially when each species behaves differently.


Exactly. I quoted something I said earlier, but I guess it just makes too good of sense!!

Compare us to a chimp, if anything. We share 99.4% of DNA traits with them. As for their hierarchy, the alpha male is the highest-ranking male which controls the group and maintains order during any disputes. In chimpanzee society, the 'dominant male' does not always have to be the largest or strongest male, but rather the most _manipulative and political_ male which can influence the goings on within a group.

But associating oneself with a wolf is waaayyy sexier than associating with a chimp, I guess.


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## SomedayDig

LMAO....just had to share this chimp research cuz it's just too damn funny NOT to!!




It is often the females who choose the alpha male. For a male chimpanzee to win the alpha status, he must gain acceptance from the females in the community. Females have to make sure their group is going to places that supply them with enough food. In some cases, a group of dominant females will oust an alpha male which is not to their preference and rather back up the other male who they see potential of leading the group as a successful alpha male.


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## azteca1986

Why wolves? Apex predator. Hunter. Pursuer. Defenceless quarry. Plus there's the mysterious lone wolf.

As stated above, far sexier than penguins.


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## Wiserforit

Why study animals when humans are right in front of us, daily?

It isn't former "betas" who read about the secret alpha traits who command respect and lead society. "Hi, I am General Patton, former Gomer Pyle. I read How to be an Alpha and was cleaning latrines before today, and this afternoon I am leading the 7th Army".

The fact there is so much disagreement and contradictory material in this whole arena tells us that it is not a science. There are a few very basic principles like having enough self-respect not to be a doormat. But it isn't more than a single page of that kind of thing, and the rest of it is a lot of tautology, circular reasoning, and bloviation.


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## SomedayDig

Wiserforit said:


> The fact there is so much disagreement and contradictory material in this whole arena tells us that it is not a science. There are a few very basic principles like having enough self-respect not to be a doormat. But it isn't more than a single page of that kind of thing, and the rest of it is a lot of tautology, circular reasoning, and bloviation.


It'd be kinda tough to sell a 300 page book based on that. This word blovation has been making the rounds on a few threads. It's pretty good and reminds me of something written by Miyamoto Musashi back in 1643. 

He said, "When an excessive number of sword moves are taught, it must be to commercialize the art and impress beginners with knowledge of many moves with a sword. This attitude is to be avoided in military science."

Musashi was speaking of blovation even in feudal Japan!!


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## Wiserforit

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> -Alpha Traits: This is what triggers dopamine response within a woman. They are devoted to physicality, assertiveness, leadership, social dominance, healthy genes, raw sexual energy, power and at times even violence.



The whole post is an example of verbosity masquerading as substance, which is by definition bloviation.

A key feature is tautological circularity. Alpha "traits" are assertiveness, leadership, social dominance etc...

No, these are _synonyms_ for the same thing. Obesity "traits" are not extreme body fat and excessive weight. Intellectually this is equivalent to saying obesity is obesity. 

You can't argue with a tautology - something true by construction - and I will take heat from the fans on this for saying so: it is a mark of shallow intellect to fall for this kind of rhetorical device. 

A person can be saying yeah, that's true - an alpha is a strong leader. He dominates socially. He is assertive. But logically you draw the wrong inference that there is meaning behind the use of synonyms that produces a cause-and-effect relation a person can exploit to become an "alpha".

If you learn to be assertive then you will become an alpha 

= If you learn to be assertive then you will be assertive. 

Inventing new terms for pre-existing, especially ancient concepts is a huge red flag on pseudoscience. What that does though is create a cult validation feature so that members of the cult can all communicate with one another in gibberish that outsiders cannot understand. It gives a mirage of insider knowledge when it is merely memorization of jargon. 

So like this post above they'll say you don't understand. Because you have not memorized all the jargon. And behind that 95% jargon is 5% truth so sure they can force you to agree with them on what little there is of merit and did not require any jargon to convey.


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## SomedayDig

Hence...Athol is an excellent entrepreneur and not a scientist.

Musashi cut blovation tactics with a "simple" draw of his sword. A true Iaijutsu.


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## TiggyBlue

I kind of see the 'alpha' terminology same as the 'inner goddess' for females, it plays to ego.


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## SomedayDig

I have an inner child. Wonder what that'd make me?

A baby chimp perhaps? :rofl:


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## TiggyBlue

coffee4me said:


> That term "inner goddess" always makes me :rofl:
> 
> Maybe ???
> 
> I have an "inner alpha"


Oh please a goddess could kick a alpha's butt (once we unleashed our 'powers') :smthumbup:


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## SomedayDig

TiggyBlue said:


> Oh please a goddess could kick a alpha's butt (once we unleashed our 'powers') :smthumbup:


True. I saw "Clash of the Titans". Athena is hot!!!

I mean bad ass!!


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## TiggyBlue

SomedayDig said:


> I have an inner child. Wonder what that'd make me?
> 
> A baby chimp perhaps? :rofl:


Maybe a cub?


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## azteca1986

Wiserforit said:


> What that does though is create a cult validation feature so that members of the cult can all communicate with one another in gibberish that outsiders cannot understand. It gives a mirage of insider knowledge when it is merely memorization of jargon.


Ha! This is so true of the marketing world too with it's militaristic language.

All the talk is - Launching campaigns, strategy, taking share, encroaching on territory... . All very macho but distasteful when you're working in a country with the armed forces dying in the field.

Head of Sales - YES! We have to _destroy_ the competition!
Me thinking - With a 30sec TV commercial for ice cream? Are you f-ing high?


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## SomedayDig

coffee4me said:


> :rofl:


Yes. But your juices would be flowing and that would somehow render powers unusable due to the condensation in your nether regions.





:rofl::rofl: Okay...I can't keep a straight face saying that stuff.


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## TiggyBlue

So the equivalent of beta for women shall be demigoddess, I'm so going to use that now. When someone whines we shall now say 'that's demigoddess talk'


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## RandomDude

Hmmm... goddesses, you know I actually read somewhere that in ancient Greece, having intercourse with Aphrodite's priestesses in the temple was a form of worship heh...

Sorry, I have no idea where that came from =/


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## Therealbrighteyes

As a background, I have four guys as my closest friends. I met them through my (now) husband when we were 9 years old. We were always a "gang". I was the little sister none of them had. We have all been in each others lives for 30+ years. This notion that men and women cannot be friends is garbage.

They are all captains of industry, one is also a former Navy fighter pilot. So I sent them 14 links to different threads on TAM about Alpha vs. Beta, asked them to read it and to tell me their thoughts. One said he couldn't get past 1 1/2 pages of the first, the second said he read through all of the first and that was all he needed to read, the other two said they could only read the original post of each thread and didn't need to go further. Every one asked if TAM was a bunch of high schoolers pretending because they simply could not imagine a man who had to label himself. 

Act like an adult, have honor and stop blaming others for your [email protected]****. That's what they said. 
I love them for a reason. No nonsense, honest and 100% right. None of them would call themselves "Alpha" men, ever. They would just call themselves men.


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## Caribbean Man

Therealbrighteyes said:


> *Every one of my friends asked if TAM was used by high schoolers. They couldn't believe for a moment that grown men "grouped" themselves in to categories and furthermore cared what random internet people thought of them. They all laughed at the Alpha type threads and the obvious homoerotica love for an Italian statue. *


This is interesting.
Why?
I have seen pretty much the same reaction by men who are captains of their industry to lots of other issues like:

1]Feminism & Gender Politics
2]The existence of God & Religion
3]Government & Politics.
4]The institution of Marriage

I've seen and heard highly paid and respected talk show hosts and politicians describe feminism and women's issue in the worst possible way with utter contempt, and I know , even though I'm not a feminist, that they were DEAD WRONG.

I've seen and read from some of the most respected thinkers in history that there is no God and people who believe in religion are deluded. I'm not religious , I still read and appreciate their works, in fact the author of the quote in my sig was a well known Atheist .IMO , he is DEAD WRONG about the non existence of a God.

I've read the works of philosophers, critics, cynics and even politicians who had / have absolutely no faith in politics and government. Winston Churchill once said that Democracy is the worst form of government. Yet we all believe that its the best thing, even better than Plato's " Republic."
Was he wrong?

I've been married for quite a while and if my wife had sex with another man there is no way in the world I'm taking her back.
That's the end.
No " hysterical bonding sex" yuck!
No " Reconcilliation." fcuk that.
No " 180 " and all that manipulative B.S.

I'm gone. Done with marriage, and I know that I'll have no problem in picking up women.Yeah, I'm that f-ing arrogant.

But I'm not stupid arrogant.
I would NEVER discourage any man wo has been betrayed and thinks that he can work things out between himself and his WW.

I would NEVER discourage any woman who is still in love with her 
WH and believes that he's worth fighting for.

I will never discourage anybody who's trying their best in whatever they endeavour to do., even though I'm not too convinced about it.

Live and let live.
A lot of times when we point fingers , fingers point right back at us.
Just sayin.

I believe in this principle below ;

"...._*You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way*_, *it does not exist*...."

*Friedrich Nietzsche*


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## Therealbrighteyes

Caribbean Man said:


> This is interesting.
> Why?
> I have seen pretty much the same reaction by men who are captains of their industry to lots of other issues like:
> 
> 1]Feminism & Gender Politics
> 2]The existence of God & Religion
> 3]Government & Politics.
> 4]The institution of Marriage
> 
> I've seen and heard highly paid and respected talk show hosts and politicians describe feminism and women's issue in the worst possible way with utter contempt, and I know , even though I'm not a feminist, that they were DEAD WRONG.
> 
> I've seen and read from some of the most respected thinkers in history that there is no God and people who believe in religion are deluded. I'm not religious , I still read and appreciate their works, in fact the author of the quote in my sig was a well known Atheist .IMO , he is DEAD WRONG about the non existence of a God.
> 
> I've read the works of philosophers, critics, cynics and even politicians who had / have absolutely no faith in politics and government. Winston Churchill once said that Democracy is the worst form of government. Yet we all believe that its the best thing, even better than Plato's " Republic."
> Was he wrong?
> 
> I've been married for quite a while and if my wife had sex with another man there is no way in the world I'm taking her back.
> That's the end.
> No " hysterical bonding sex" yuck!
> No " Reconcilliation." fcuk that.
> No " 180 " and all that manipulative B.S.
> 
> I'm gone. Done with marriage, and I know that I'll have no problem in picking up women.Yeah, I'm that f-ing arrogant.
> 
> But I'm not stupid arrogant.
> I would NEVER discourage any man wo has been betrayed and thinks that he can work things out between himself and his WW.
> 
> I would NEVER discourage any woman who is still in love with her
> WH and believes that he's worth fighting for.
> 
> I will never discourage anybody who's trying their best in whatever they endeavour to do., even though I'm not too convinced about it.
> 
> Live and let live.
> A lot of times when we point fingers , fingers point right back at us.
> Just sayin.
> 
> I believe in this principle below ;
> 
> "...._*You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way*_, *it does not exist*...."
> 
> *Friedrich Nietzsche*


Wow, that wasn't even remotely what I was talking about but you managed to sneak in gender politics and every other straw man theory. Secondly, THEY WEREN'T EVEN REMOTELY TALKING ABOUT YOU, THEY ACTUALLY LIKED YOU, AS DO I.

If you give a sh!t, they said they knew you are a good man, a hard working man, a man of no excuses and a man of integrity. A title? BS. You could care less about it. Yup, they said it from reading your posts. I didn't tell them a thing. They thought you were truly the most authentic person here. I mean it.


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## krismimo

I don't think it is fair for you to post something like this Bright eyes and it also seemed sort of hostile of you to show other men this thread then say hey look you guys look dumb for trying to better yourselves?(paraphrasing here) (Sorry to intrude guys) I'm not a guy but I would never do that.... I wouldn't take this post and show other people this especially if they are not regulars on TAM. I for one believe you do what you do that makes you happy and better yourself, I don't care what you call it if it's Alpha, Beta, or nothing at all. I have been around guys all my life I have always been part of the pack so to speak I know things I shouldn't and it allows me a very intimate veil of knowledge about men and to me speaking as a woman I think to a degree what you did to a certain extent is peeled back a intimate curtain on how men try to better themselves as men it's sort of a slap in the face that frankly you have no right to do nor do you have the err how can I say this equipment to do so. And your breaking a code and that is not cool.


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## Adex

No on is a true alpha. Even the most alpha guy has some beta characteristics. That's why being alpha can be learned.


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## Adex

Trenton said:


> Adex, you're back. That was a short stay away.


I get banned often mostly because some moderators don't like my views, and then right when I "incite" someone, BAM there drops the ban. Nevermind, all the other people that attack me throughout my threads that I post. I'm used to it though. I need to "tone it down." :smthumbup:


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## SomedayDig

Adex said:


> No on is a true alpha. Even the most alpha guy has some beta characteristics. That's why being alpha can be learned.


This made no sense to me. No one is true alpha...even the most alpha guy has beta and that's why being alpha can be learned.

What does this even mean?!


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## MeditMike80

Adex said:


> I get banned often mostly because some moderators don't like my views, and then right when I "incite" someone, BAM there drops the ban. Nevermind, all the other people that attack me throughout my threads that I post. I'm used to it though. I need to "tone it down." :smthumbup:


Most betas who try to "learn" to be alpha end up being bullies. Take that lovely thread you recently started about your marriage, for example. Most of the changes aren't alpha at all, they're borderline emotional abuse.
It seems more like you've beaten your wife into submission (figuratively speaking) instead of truly leading your family. The proverbial "tough guy" isn't alpha, he's an extremely insecure beta who over compensates. Alphas lead by example not by saying "this is how it's gonna be whether you like it or not."

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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