# Look, If This Went on for Years....



## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

there is no way you are dealing with a normal,non personaluty disordered person, IMO. And, there is now way the cheater loves you.

I say this because of the incredible amount of effort he or she put inot leading a double life and the fact that doing so seems to have noadverse effect on them.
Thye sleep like babies. They function at work. They are pretty good at covering their tracks and keeping track of their lies.
These skills are developed throughout a lifetime.
Ask yourself: if I ever crossed that line, could I pull this masquerade off so long and so well? No, a normal person just does not have this within him/her.

The onlt cheaters who I think are salvageable are those who stopped really early and who showed signs of it having affected them.
Years? No way you are dealing with a normal person.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BigLiam, why do torture yourself with this sh*t?

You need to quit worrying why cheaters do what they do and try to figure out why you are attracted to women like this.

I am in counseling now to figure out why I do the same.

Aim your energies where you can expect the most productive payoff. Trying to climb inside the heads of cheaters is folly....WASTE OF TIME!


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Yeah, I know. I guess it is my nature, trying to make sense of what makes no sense.
I have had a ton of counseling and have a good handle on both why I was targeted and why I tolerated this crap. Really looked within and am very much more aware now.
I made ths thread because there seems to be a decent number of these situations where a BS is attempting to reconcile with a long term cheater or a seriial cheater. IMO, after a ton of research, I think that is not possible. These folks are wired differently. 
The duration, number of partners, and the carefree way they acted during the affair are really important factors to consider in assessing the WS, IMO.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You can drag a dead horse to water but it's not going to drink no matter how much you beat it


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> You can drag a dead horse to water but it's not going to drink no matter how much you beat it


This is exactly what I mean. A long term cheater is the type of person that would beat a horse.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> This is exactly what I mean. A long term cheater is the type of person that would beat a horse.


Liam i dont think that is what AR meant. You have to get it together. What are you doing today? Can you get together with friends or family? Take it minute by minute. 

Try not to talk or think about cheaters. Have a fun time, go to the beach, pool or movies. We are going to see MIB this evening, should be good.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Liam i dont think that is what AR meant. You have to get it together. What are you doing today? Can you get together with friends or family? Take it minute by minute.
> 
> Try not to talk or think about cheaters. Have a fun time, go to the beach, pool or movies. We are going to see MIB this evening, should be good.


I have a date with my GF. Dinner and moovie, I expect.
Yesterday, I played golf at a great course with some other pros and had a cookout at one guys house. Lots of fun and talking(no infidelity talk).
Tomorrow, I tee it up with three good friends, then get my son from Group Home and we go to an amusment park.
Monday, tee it up with a couple of my golf students and just hang out.
MY X FIL invited me to play, as well.
I head for AZ to look at houses in June. Hilton Head in August. Pinehurstin October.
Qulaifier for the US Senior Open in July.

Life is good. I just hate cheaters.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> there is no way you are dealing with a normal,non personaluty disordered person, IMO. And, there is now way the cheater loves you.
> 
> I say this because of the incredible amount of effort he or she put inot leading a double life and the fact that doing so seems to have noadverse effect on them.
> Thye sleep like babies. They function at work. They are pretty good at covering their tracks and keeping track of their lies.
> ...


I pulled it off flawlessly for a little more than a year.

It was the most stressful, self defeating, depressing, terrifying, lowest, guilt ridden, soul sucking, wish I was dead, period of my life.

I will never do it again, not just because it`s immoral, not just because I`m not that selfish anymore, but a large portion of my reasoning is I never want to feel like such utter and complete **** like that again.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

My ex-h pulled it off for 5 years, November 2006 through to May 2011 and then had another chance August 2011 through December 2012. In this last period it was amazing, how after completing therapy, how transparent his methods were. It's not that they pulled it off for years and years, that is not the issue, it's that we were co-dependent for that many years, and facilitated it. At least in my case. Not sure about yours but things got a lot easier after I took responsibility for my part in the whole charade. What a ride!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

My wife was a serial cheater for 6+ years (3 OM) before finding out about her affairs. She pleaded with my grown daughter that inside she was so confused and it was driving her crazy. My daughter countered, Oh really... you just played us (family) seemingly just fine. 

Almost 3 years out, it really will never make any sense... why bother wasting my life trying to "figure it out".


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case, my fWW behavior snowballed into a self distruction of sorts. Once you see the one person that should love you and then stops... along with alot of abuse it can have a self distructing effect.

Alls it took was the first couple of affairs and a couple a years and when the marriage is no longer a priority for both partners, then what does it matter. Compine that with some toxic friends and game on.

Yes my wife changed, did I care...no. 

In short if (me) the husband doesn't care about the wife or the marriage then why not continue to have GNO's and ONS's and waking up in strange apartments.

13 years of this kind of behavior can have a toll on a person, can the unhealthy behaviors stop....yes. so now 2 years after confronting my wife, and a year of anger management has help me stop hitting her. a year of IC has helped her deal with the issues in her life. and a years worth of MC can make for a healthy marriage.

At the end of the day the length of time has no bearing, its what we do now as individuals to make a change for a healthier life style.


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

My WW's affair lasted 3 years- 12/08-2/12. But it was on/off several times in that span. They travelled for work together at times. My biggest fear is that there were other men, though not sure how that would change things. I guess finding any big new lie would kill it. I wish I knew the answers to some of Liam's questions. Obviously my WW has serious issues. But I have known of many of them for awhile. How do they manage the guilt for so long??


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

completely_lost said:


> What made you finally end it? Did he continue contact?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He swerved the car with me in it after I'd asked him to avoid deep pooling on an exit ramp during a heavy rainstorm, and laughed about it.

Threatened suicide by car, then when I told him I was calling the Veteran's hotline he said it was only so I could collect the insurance as he'd make it look like an accident, because I only wanted his money (his words.) I explained to him that wasn't true as prior to him wanting another chance at marriage I would have divorced him...no next of kin no insurance money...

He came late to a movie saying he'd taken the time to shower, making it seem like it was really thoughtful of him to do so. His moustached smelled like p*ssy. When I mentioned it to him he looked really confused for a moment, then said I had a great imagination.

5 days later being 'intimate' (from my end, anyway) put my hand on scratches that had scabbed over on his right shoulder, right where one puts one's hand during that act, sometimes. When we were finished and some time had passed, I remarked to him that the scratches on his back were interfering with my feelings of trust and being close, especially during intimacy. He could not explain where the scratches came from...it was the middle of winter, no blood on any of his tee-shirts...he complained that I didn't trust him. I said no I don't, that's why I'm living in my own apartment, because you lied to me for 5 years and then took advantage of me last April when you were home on leaving, using condoms as I'd asked to avoid pregnancy and then just slipping it in me one time and acting like it was a misunderstanding. (I filed rape charges against him for non-consenting sex act...) Why should I trust you, we are supposed to be building trust and I would really like an explanation for those scratches. Then he said I didn't WANT to trust him, I said no that's not the case. I do want to trust you that's why I didn't file for divorce and gave you another chance and let you stay in my apartment. 

So he went into the kitchen...and looked me up and down and said maybe we should get a divorce.

I thought for a second and said to myself I can't go back to his house with my kids because any time he cheats it will end in him saying he wants a divorce, whenever my calm and rational demeanor and verbal exchange is short circuiting his gaslighting.

So I said, I agree, and he launched immediately into a bitter vicious verbal attack on me, telling me fine go back to my brother then. (My brother raped me when I was 12 or 13, and I have no contact with my family since 1995 when I got restraining orders against them.) He also called me a b*tch and said I got what I wanted (did not, I wanted a real marriage), and that I'd used his money to consult an attorney ($145.00!) he didn't mentioned any of the money I'd taken to move out...I think what bothered him is that I'd left the receipt and the entry in the joint checkbook to be accountable for the money I spent while he was deployed. I was very careful not to use it for frivolous activities, just caretaking of myself according to what my social worker said was acceptable to do for my recovery. 

So, after the vicious verbal attack I said I was going to take the dog for a walk, and please be gone from my apartment when I got back, with your things. (My landlord is a police officer and knew my ex from a deployment in 1995 and didn't think highly of him.) 

So, that was that.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

I have total respect for BS who can reconcile after years of an affair. My WS had a 4 week long PA (where they talked/texted daily) but only saw each other 1 or 2 times a week. His month long betrayal nearly killed me...so I can't imagine the pain of finding out the betrayal lasted for years. However we all have our limits. And I WILL find strength in pain, and I did.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

My GF of 2 months suggested we go to a hotel tonight. Yikes, this is it. My friend gave me Viagra. 5 years and no sex. P:banhim::gun:retty nervous


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> My GF of 2 months suggested we go to a hotel tonight. Yikes, this is it. My friend gave me Viagra. 5 years and no sex. P:banhim::gun:retty nervous


You will be okay. Have fun.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Tear it up! :lol:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> My GF of 2 months suggested we go to a hotel tonight. Yikes, this is it. My friend gave me Viagra. 5 years and no sex. P:banhim::gun:retty nervous


Damn, you`re making me nervous!

Your girlfriend should be nervous, you did warn her ..right?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Relax. It is like riding a bike as soon as you start it will all come back. Also, let her know it has been a long time - she'll know you need to ramp it up with practice. That will help to keep you calm, and excited of course. Take it easy and remember, take her pleasure into consideration so it won't be the last time you spend in a hotel. 

Have you read any of PBear's post? They are interesting


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Went fine:smthumbup:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Krichali said:


> I see a lot of threads here recently about long term affairs that have gone on for years. It looks like they're fairly common in this forum. But if I understand the fog/dopamine theory of affairs, it's supposed to be the 'thrill of the new', isn't it? And then we also read that "most affairs peter out within 2 years". So how can you explain the ones that go on longer? I think I saw one here who said his WW had a 12 year affair?


In my case I left a LTR for my affair partner.

I don`t think you need to explain the affairs that "go on longer".

There is a lot of (understandable) bias about these things on this forum that must be filtered through carefully.

The Fog/dopamine theory of affairs is really the Fog/dopamine theory of love/infatuation in general.
It happens the same way in the early days of any legitimate relationship.
It`s just skewed by many when discussed in the context of infidelity.

Most affairs don`t last more than a year or more?
Most relationships don`t last more than a year or more.
Considering all the obstacles in an affair it`s amazing they last a month or more.



> Are the APs still in fantasy land love when they sneak off together?


No, they have overcome many many obstacles and have found a way to be together, they are legitimately in love

Like it or not.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Well, yes, maybe they are in love. But, what makes folks who do this different than people with more developed consciences, it=s that they feel entitled to steal time from their spouse. To me this demonstrates lack of empathy, and a lack of consideration for their spouse as a fellow human being.
Many BSs had similar opportunities to become involved with another who the Bs might consider an upgrade. Yet, in reliance on our agreement with our WS, refrained.
Tacoma, do you feel you deprived your wife of , potentially, meeting someone she could have been happier with, by defrauding her for a year?
In my case, at the time of my first wife's affairs, I was pretty physically attractive and had mnay overtures from women who, quite frankly, were physically more attractive than my wife. And, some of these women seemed more intelligent and interesting, as well. But, I never crosssed the line and cheated.
Who knows, maybe my perfect match was among those women. So, for,rughly 4 years, while my wife cheated, I had a sexless marriage to a very mean person.
OTOH, she, apparently, was having the time of her life.
IMO, this demonstrates that the cheater is the type of person who thinks of him/herself first.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Well, yes, maybe they are in love. But, what makes folks who do this different than people with more developed consciences, it=s that they feel entitled to steal time from their spouse. To me this demonstrates lack of empathy, and a lack of consideration for their spouse as a fellow human being.


You`re entirely correct.
It`s a completely selfish act without thought for the pain they`re putting their partner through.



> Many BSs had similar opportunities to become involved with another who the Bs might consider an upgrade. Yet, in reliance on our agreement with our WS, refrained.


Because those BS have a stronger foundation of ethical interaction.



> Tacoma, do you feel you deprived your wife of , potentially, meeting someone she could have been happier with, by defrauding her for a year?


Well my affair wasn`t in a marriage, I was in a long term relationship with a woman when I got into it with another woman.
No, I don`t think I deprived her of anything as she was well ensconced in her own affairs.

However if she had been faithful and respectful and I had the affair I would have indeed been depriving her of many things she would have been deserving of.
But if she had been faithful and respectful it`s unlikely I would have strayed in the first place.

I`m not justifying what I did, it was wrong and messed up and now I am a better person who would know the right way to deal with the troubles I was having.



> In my case, at the time of my first wife's affairs, I was pretty physically attractive and had mnay overtures from women who, quite frankly, were physically more attractive than my wife. And, some of these women seemed more intelligent and interesting, as well. But, I never crosssed the line and cheated.


Because you have a strong foundation of ethical interaction.



> Who knows, maybe my perfect match was among those women. So, for,rughly 4 years, while my wife cheated, I had a sexless marriage to a very mean person.


Quite honestly Liam this only happened because you allowed it.
I understand the motivators that can put a person in the position you were in and ignorance is the biggest one.
You are now better educated about relationships and I don`t think you`d allow this to go on as you did with your Ex.
We live and learn.



> OTOH, she, apparently, was having the time of her life.
> IMO, this demonstrates that the cheater is the type of person who thinks of him/herself first.


Yes, it`s a selfish undertaking.
The key is to find out "why" that person is being so selfish if you really want to understand what would drive a person to infidelity.

Sadly it`s just the way many many people are in this day and age.

Edit:

Liam, I don`t believe any of us has a "perfect match".
We all have our "type" but any bond beyond that must be cared for and nourished to make it grow.
What this means is we can have that "perfect match" with someone we`re attracted to who is as willing as we are to make it work.
The desire to "make it work" is the only measure of love I can think of.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I completelagree that i allowed it to happen , and that is one of my biggest sources of shame. Iallowed an abuser to abuse me and took it far too long. Yes, there were children to consider but I really had to learn to respect myself and to feel entitled to much,much more than my XW was willing or capable of giving me.
Thank God, I did not cheat.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Krichali said:


> So how can you explain the ones that go on longer? I think I saw one here who said his WW had a 12 year affair? Are the APs still in fantasy land love when they sneak off together?


I know who you're talking about. I think the really LTAs are where the APs don't have any intention of leaving their BSs, but want to have their fun on the side. The classic cake eaters. They want to keep their families, but have fun and hot sex with their affair partner. 

And the person you're talking about, it actually was a 15 year affair, with the OM being the biological father of the 15 year old daughter. The person kept minimizing her actions to justify R with her. Because he later said his daughter was 12 yrs old and that' s when the affair started.  He minimized the affair even more by making his wife out to be a victim of the OM and his WW only had sex about once a month with the OM. 

This is the ultimate Trickle Truth story of them all. First the WW admitted to an 8 month affair that was only sex, then she admitted to an 8 year affair, then it turns out that OM is the father of his 15 year old daughter. And get this, this was OM#3. The WW cheated on him with OM#1 in the 2nd year of the marriage, and with OM#2 in the 6th year. 

Here's a thread from the darkside, and notice some of these cheaters are in LTAs, one is in a 9 year affair.

Affair Discussion Forum • View topic - How much contact and how often do you see each other?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

issed:

aargh that was one trigger!

I gotta have a smoke


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don`t believe such a long term affair is a delusion.

They may not be living together but years in a relationship is long enough to get over any puppy love delusions.

Long term affairs are people who fall for each other but can`t/won`t/don`t want to lose their married lifestyle be it for lack of courage, money, kids, whatever but it ain`t a fantasy any longer.

They`re just using their spouses to support their affair at that point.


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