# Never let your wife work at a BAR! Help me fix my life



## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Background:
My wife and I have been married for 5 years, been together for 9 years (since we were 18). We have two kids together as well. During those 9 years we have been through a lot together, like her helping me deal with the passing of both my parents, we have a very strong bond/attachment to each other and will always love each other in a sense. During our marriage I have been going to school/taking care of the kids, while she has been working.
Affair:
Well were living pretty happily during our marriage and have had an amazing sex life. Although, complacency seemed to sneak into our relationship and combined with a few other factors…my wife had a mental break down.
1. She got a new job about 5 months ago bartending (confused her about being married vs being single)
2. Financial problems 
3. My student loan was declined causing me to not take classes this semester and further adding to our financial woes (tired of waiting for me to finish school).
4. She felt like she was doing almost all the work, that I didn't help her out as much as I should have, with the house/kids. 
5. She resented me for not working
6. Says we never do anything together, that we never have fun
When she first had this breakdown about a month ago, she told me that she wanted to see what it was like to be on her own, to have fun, and that she wanted her freedom (basically tired of the boring married life). I thought most of these newfound feelings were because of her new bartending job (I could see her slowly changing) and the growing resentment she had for me. I guess in a sense this kind of woke me up and made me realize that I was seriously slacking off as a husband and that she deserved someone to help her more and take some of the tension off her. I told her that I understood why she was feeling this way and promised to make an effort to change and help her out more (with the kids/house) and that I'd find a job, she agreed to work on things and give us a chance. But by that time it seemed like it was too late, she had already made up her mind and wanted to see what the single life was all about…all the while leading me on and making me think things were going good between us. She even tossed out the idea of having an open relationship. Well during the next few weeks I kept my word, I helped her out as much as I could and eventually found a good job out of state doing pipeline work. By the time I left for the job, I thought we were good…she even made passionate love to me the night before I left. While I was away working, I felt that something wasn’t right…she wasn’t being her normal loving self to me, even though she’d send me a … “I love you, miss you” txt every now and then. After a few weeks of this I decided to go online and look at our phone bill, I found one number on a Friday night that I was suspicious about (her parents had our kids and she said she went out with a girlfriend to dinner), I called it and it was a guy. I immediately called her and asked her if she was seeing another man, she denied, denied, and denied, but then eventually came clean. She said she did go on a date with him that Friday, and that she had gone on one other date with him as well. She said all they did was kiss. My heart sank to the bottom of my stomach; it was a painful feeling being betrayed by the person you love. The next night we talked for a long time, she said her feelings about me have changed and she didn’t know why. I asked her to just give us a chance and she agreed to stop talking to him, at least until I came home and we could figure things out. The next morning she called me before work and told me they had planned to go to Chicago for the weekend, but she was cancelling. I felt like this was a good sign and realized I needed to get home asap, she had not yet done anything unforgivable. Later that night I was preparing to drive 10hrs home (I didn’t’ tell her I was coming home), her parents had our kids again and she told me she was going to have a night to herself and think about things. Eventually the next morning I got home, I was pretty anxious/nervous, half expecting to find another man in my bed. I went right for her cell phone and found that she had deleted all of her txts to him, but there was a phone call from that night to him. I woke her up, asked her about it. She lied, eventually told me that she did go out to see him again…to say “good bye”, my heart sank again. Anyhow, after drilling her with questions she finally came clean and told me everything. The guy had been a bar guest and he had been coming in to see her the past month. They started flirting and eventually exchanged numbers a few days after I left for work. He is also married and has 2 kids, he was successful, he excited her and had fun with him…blah blah
1st date, they went to dinner, kissed in his car, she put her mouth on his penis for a few seconds, they fondled each other, he fingered her. 
2nd date, they just went to dinner/kissed (she had to get home to pick our kids up from day care). 
3rd date, after she told me she was done talking to him. They again went out to dinner, afterwards they found somewhere to park. This time around they did the same type of fooling around, but she jerked him off to the point of orgasm. 
Aftermath:
It’s been 10 days since I first got back home and things are still very difficult. She has given me her word (again) that she is done talking to him, she realizes that fooling around with a married man is wrong and she doesn’t want to see him again...and I believe her. She has told me that while we are still married she will not talk to other men at all…I believe her again. But she still says that she doesn’t feel the same way for me as she once did and that she doesn’t really know why. She says that when we kiss, she doesn’t feel anything. I asked her how sure was she that she didn’t want to continue being married, she said 99%. Since I’ve been home we have done a lot of talking, we’re still having sex, I have taken her out on dates, this past weekend I even took our whole family away for the weekend. And although we had fun and I tried my best to not think about what she has done, it doesn’t seem to have any effect on her. I still love her but the angers building up. She’s the one that had the affair and I’m still the one trying to fight for our marriage and family. I feel like all I’ve been doing is rewarding her bad behavior and giving her the power in this situation. I guess I’ve been hoping for her to snap out of it, the person she’s turned into the past month is not the person I fell in love with. The girl I used to know was loving and honest with me about everything, and would have never considered cheating on me or being with a married man. But it seems like that person maybe gone. Currently, she’s fine with just living together, she’s even agreed to marriage counseling, but her heart just doesn’t seem to be into it and she is still working at her bar. She says that over the years she tricked herself into believing she was happy, but all the resentment just gradually built up…until it burst her bubble a month ago. I understand my short comings as a husband and realize she has reason to feel the way she does. But when it comes down to it I’ve always have been an honest loving husband to her and a great father…even if I haven’t helped out as much as I should have or provided for us financially…and now that I’m ready to make a serious effort to change that she’s turned her feelings off for me? I’m confused as to what I should do, a part of me wants to just be done with her and move on…the other part of me wants my wife back and the life we shared. Add in the thoughts about her affair, and my life is complete hell right now. As of now I feel like we’re just stuck in limbo, help!


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## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

It's over. (I don't mean the affair, either)


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See an attorney.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Is the OM married? If so, contact his wife and let her know what's going on. If not, good luck.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

This has nothing to do with your wife working at a bar, your shortcomings or her changing. This is who she has always been.

Consider this: Does a loving, honest person have sex with a married father , thus destroying his family?You wife had no compunctions about jerking off(yeah, that is having sex) some guy who is married with kids. What, onearth, do your shortcomings have to do with her lack of a conscience?
It is just so common, the betrayed spouse thinking that any deficiency played a part in this. It did not. Your wife wanted sex with a different man. She wanted variety. It had nothing to do with you.
You need to know that the vast majority of affairs go undetected. What do you think the odds are that this one that you stumbled upon is her first. You should insist on a polygraph, STD testimng, full exposure to this guy's wife(this needs to be done regardless of reconciliation.Your wife has exposed this woman to her entire sexual history> You have been exposed to this other guy's ,as well(yeah sure . She only jerked him off. Your wife is a known liar, right. Yet you beleive her on critical matters).
I am really sorry she has abused you like this. See a doctor if you need meds. Lean on your family for support.Take care of yourself.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposé the POSOM to his wife immediately. Cause you need to end the affair. 

Btw she doesnt have te same feeling any more for you because she just spent the last month being fawned over by this guy and having an affair.

This is why you must contact the guys wife and take him out of the picture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Exposé the POSOM to his wife immediately. Cause you need to end the affair.
> 
> Btw she doesnt have te same feeling any more for you because she just spent the last month being fawned over by this guy and having an affair.
> 
> ...


She has come clean about everything, I think shes tired of lying and actually feels a huge burden off her shoulders now that I know everything. I think she's realized how sleezy it was to date a married man and understands there relationship can't go anywhere. I honestly believe her when she tells me shes done with him...but I may be a huge naive dumbass as well.

About talking to his wife...
I really do want to expose this pos to his wife. I have his name (from my wife who could be lying), age, what kind of car he drives, and cell phone number. But his name is really common and I'm having a hard time tracking him down online or finding information on him. I have searched for him on facebook and intellus, no luck. The only way I can think of contacting his wife, is to hang out at my wifes work and wait for him and follow him home. I've been tempted to call him and talk to him...although I havent yet

Any more advice on what step I should take? Not sure if reconciliation is even possible now that she's lost her feelings for me (even though a month ago she was madly in love with me) Should I leave and let her see what its like to be without me? Before this our relationship was great, I do not believe she's ever cheated on me in the past, I feel like she's having a mid life crisis...


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Don't contact him. Keep searching for information. If he was married in a local area, you can check the county database for marriage licenses.

Check Mylife.com too.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Your wife knows how to contact him , right? So, is she unwilling to give you this info?
And, why the hell should the man's wife be kept in the dark? So, you do not offend your wife. Have a little compassion for another betrayed spouse. Wouldn't you want to know?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

S-
The last thing you want to do is sweep this under the carpet. Your W needs to completely understand why she did what she did and the both of you need to understand why the marraige has propblems.

See these are two different issues. The cheating was just a by product of a problematic marriage. You wife made an unhealthy dicision, a choice with in her self that makes us wonder were her moral compose is at. 

The second, seperate issue is the problematic marriage, sure its easy to blame the troubled marriage but you wife has her own issues and must own this affiar. The marriage on the other hand has to be addressed seperately, see the both of you have a choice how to "met each others needs".

Her affair is all on her. You both have work to do on the marriage, but your wife has her own work with why she made the choices she did.

My main point here is prevention and with out examining and understanding why things are the way they are then there is a strong possiblity of a repeat years down the road.

I hope the both of you learn to have a healthy marriage, and I hope your W learns to make healthier choices with healthy boundries. She needs to look at her boundries seperate from how crappy her marriage was or is. 

Just my $0.02 from the guy with a bartender wife.


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## Bartimaus (Oct 15, 2011)

You might want to use a small hidden VAR to get her talking about him and what they did. Then once you find out who his wife is,where to contact her,play the recording to her!
He messed up your marriage,mess his up too and save his wife from further abuse.
It's true that the bar didn't cause this but...working there,she would have been flirted with enough in one month as much as some women are in a life time. Maybe that's why she wanted to work there? It was why my wife worked at a motel!


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Your wife knows how to contact him , right? So, is she unwilling to give you this info?
> And, why the hell should the man's wife be kept in the dark? So, you do not offend your wife. Have a little compassion for another betrayed spouse. Wouldn't you want to know?


I have been trying to contact her from the beginning, she def deserves to know what a ********* her husband is. At first my wife didn't want me to contact her, now she doesn't care. Only way my wife can contact him is via cell, she doesnt know where he lives.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

the guy said:


> S-
> The last thing you want to do is sweep this under the carpet. Your W needs to completely understand why she did what she did and the both of you need to understand why the marraige has propblems.
> 
> See these are two different issues. The cheating was just a by product of a problematic marriage. You wife made an unhealthy dicision, a choice with in her self that makes us wonder were her moral compose is at.
> ...


Thanks, i agree 100%. Her cheating was a bi-product of the problems in our marriage. She was weak and made poor choices. When she first started working at the bar she'd come home and tell me how lucky she is to have a guy like me, after dealing with all the guys at her work. Then when we started having trouble with our marriage, she began to like that attention...and eventually succumbed to the temptation. I guess I'm just confused and I'm not sure what direction to go. I still love her and I think she is a good person, although a weak person. But if she's fallen out of love with me and isn't willing to work on our marriage, I guess I really have no choice...which is sad as hell to me. Throwing away a marriage and family, all b/c my wife had a mid life crisis and thought the grass was greener for a moment.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

That is a very good sign. When the wayward wants to protect thier affair partner is the worst.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Bartimaus said:


> You might want to use a small hidden VAR to get her talking about him and what they did. Then once you find out who his wife is,where to contact her,play the recording to her!
> He messed up your marriage,mess his up too and save his wife from further abuse.
> It's true that the bar didn't cause this but...working there,she would have been flirted with enough in one month as much as some women are in a life time. Maybe that's why she wanted to work there? It was why my wife worked at a motel!


Yea thats why I think the bar is a huge part of all this. Before working there she was a different person, and it seems that most affairs are situation based. Put any good person in a bad situation over and over and they are bound to change/adapt. Regardless of how strong willed a person is, I think being in that situation 50 hrs a week would effect anyone...especially when your spouse isn't giving you the attention you want....and 100 other guys are. 

She originally got the job because it was good money and we needed it


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Seangar said:


> I have been trying to contact her from the beginning, she def deserves to know what a ********* her husband is. At first my wife didn't want me to contact her, now she doesn't care. Only way my wife can contact him is via cell, she doesnt know where he lives.


Nice, she jerks off guys that she barely knows. A decent PI can find him from the cell#. Make sure she pays for the PI, out of her tip money.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Don't cash your chips in yet. Your chick needs to find her own strength and if she is willing to take the step to not blame her marriage but blame her weakness and go figure out why she was so weak in a bad time in her life she may figure out how to prevent it from happening again.

As a member of the cheating police I wish my W was taking bigger step with in her self to protect her self from those bad behaviors. Like more IC for her.

For now she is meeting my needs and the marrage is solid, but I worry about her as an individual and the weakness she has with her self esteem and the effect it has in the occupation she has.

What she does have going for her self is she sees the need to have the boundries for the marriage for her self and she understands my boundries as well. So far its working. But I hate when she has to close......you know what I mean?

Just remember do not sweep this under the carpet, I did 13 years ago...her 1st time, she bacame a serial cheater. So please listen and learn from this crap...both of you!!!!!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

the guy said:


> Don't cash your chips in yet. Your chick needs to find her own strength and if she is willing to take the step to not blame her marriage but blame her weakness and go figure out why she was so weak in a bad time in her life she may figure out how to prevent it from happening again.
> 
> As a member of the cheating police I wish my W was taking bigger step with in her self to protect her self from those bad behaviors. Like more IC for her.
> 
> ...


Yeah, well she gets to learn more than him. He is stuck with just her. She has had a lot more fun.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

the guy said:


> Don't cash your chips in yet. Your chick needs to find her own strength and if she is willing to take the step to not blame her marriage but blame her weakness and go figure out why she was so weak in a bad time in her life she may figure out how to prevent it from happening again.
> 
> As a member of the cheating police I wish my W was taking bigger step with in her self to protect her self from those bad behaviors. Like more IC for her.
> 
> ...


Yea, my wife has low self esteem too (even though shes a beautiful women), so right from the start I didn't really want her working at that bar...and ya she closed a lot, getting home at 4am doesnt do much to help a marriage. And it turned a once confident husband into one full of doubt, I would constantly question her and I'm sure this pushed her away as well. She told me herself she was getting tired of doing nothing wrong but me always accusing her. Anyhow, constantly being around the bar life, seeing single people having fun, being free, being single, having guys constantly hitting on her....made her rethink our life together. She wants to have fun and life that exciting life. Before the affair she came out and told me how she felt, but I kind of ignored it and thought we could just work on our marriage and it would change the way she was feeling. And I did work hard on changing things and she made me believe things were fine Obviously they werent and maybe I tried to late. By that point she had already made her mind up


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yep, had to be the self esteem deal, the environment, your accusations and neglect, and your poor timing....

STOP THAT BS. Your wife will be more than glad to point these things out. You need not do it.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

She does not seem mature enough to stay in marriage. She does not know the concept of boundary and longs for the free, exciting single life style. Whether you choose to stay in this marriage or not is your choice, but I have a feeling that you are in for a long painful haul. 

At this point, she has fallen out of love with you, and she will struggle to get that feeling back. She is too much of a free spirit. 

Also, I do not think she has come clean with how far she went with OM. She put her lips on his penus for "seconds"? Everything she said seems very watered down version of what really happened. My gut says they had full blown sex a few times. 

If you want to give her another chance, then at least demand polygraph. Otherwise, I would contact lawyer now for dissolution. It's easier to D her now than later when you have a couple kids. The way things are, years down the line she will cheat again for sure. 

As for OMW, you can also pay some fees to PI service to get her phone number. It shouldn't be too expensive.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You're making excuses for your wife.

I've had relationships with bartenders more than a few times.
Their jobs disn't cause them to cheat.

Your wife did what she did because she wanted it and she still wants it.

File and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, they had full on sex at least on the second date. He's a married guy, he could get no sex at home. He kept at her because he was getting some from her.

Hire a PI, he will track him down, especially since he is a regular at the bar. Se may not be concerned however because she may have given you the wrong guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Would it matter if she had sex with this guy, cause most likely she has. She didn't tell you because she wants to "protect you".

Start thinking about divorce. The marriage won't last how it is at the moment. Divorce may cause her rethink the reality of the situation and work on the marriage if she wants to.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

look up the term "trickle truth"

waywards often try to "soften" the blow of their infidelity by not giving up all of the real facts of their cheating

I have seen the old "we stopped mid-sex" line more times than I'd care to see


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get counseling as fast as you can. Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs Her Needs", they are designed to put he love back into a marriage.

With help you can save this marriage if you want to. 80% of the couples who divorce over an affair regret that decision and wish they had stayed together and worked it out.

Some of these post seem toxic to a pro marriage website.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

"she put her mouth on his penis for a few seconds"


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Seangar said:


> 1st date, they went to dinner, kissed in his car, she put her mouth on his penis for a few seconds, they fondled each other, he fingered her.
> 2nd date, they just went to dinner/kissed (she had to get home to pick our kids up from day care).
> 3rd date, after she told me she was done talking to him. They again went out to dinner, afterwards they found somewhere to park. This time around they did the same type of fooling around, but she jerked him off to the point of orgasm.


I agee with Kobo.

Anyone else notice the MASSIVE trickle truth here? Geez, if she admitted doing this on the first date, anyone care to guess what REALLY happened?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Heck, I made up a new demotivational poster just for this:


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Get counseling as fast as you can. Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs Her Needs", they are designed to put he love back into a marriage.
> 
> With help you can save this marriage if you want to. 80% of the couples who divorce over an affair regret that decision and wish they had stayed together and worked it out.
> 
> Some of these post seem toxic to a pro marriage website.


Thanks for the post. I'll def. check out the books. I agree, it seems like the majority of posts are pretty toxic. I realize that most of the time in an affair women have a hard time being completely honest. I don't believe that's the case with my wife after talking to her for hours, she previously was always open and honest with me. If she is lying then she's pure evil and deserves and oscar. 

Last night the guy came into her work to see her (first time since their last date a few weeks ago), she told me that she told him she doesnt want to see him anymore and asked him to stop coming into her work. She said the conversation lasted about 10 minutes, which did kind of piss me off...it shouldnt take that long to tell someone your done with them.

I think her affair with him really is over, not sure as to whether or not he will stop coming into her work though...and i still need to contact his wife.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> Heck, I made up a new demotivational poster just for this:


:lol:


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

10 minutes, eh?Yep, she is lying.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Your thread title says "never let your wife work at a bar" yet your wife still works at a bar.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Heck, I made up a new demotivational poster just for this:


"it's just the tip"

that's what she said


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## Craggy456 (Feb 22, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> "it's just the tip"
> 
> that's what she said


:lol: best Micheal Scott line ever!


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Seangar - put a priority on getting his W contacted. The NC rule of an affair requires no contact with your W and her affair person. This really should require her to leave her job and find one in a less toxic environment. 

You have said several times that you trust her. This is surprising. She has gone outside the marriage with another man, didn't let you know this was happening - may even not have told you the whole truth - and you still believe her.

10 min conv with the OM - totally inexcusable - but I can guarandamntee that it will continue as long as she works there and doesn't send a NC letter (one you have reviewed and approved) to this person - in addition to you contacting his wife.

my W didn't trust me a lot of years because of my porn use (and lying to her about it). your W gets all but banged (and we'll bet you don't know the half of the story yet) and does the same to him and you TRUST HER?

Come on. Get real. How has this been working for you? Your W needs to know that trust has to be re-earned in this marriage and it will take a while. She needs to undertake the heavy lifting required to earn your trust back. 

Part of this is taking herself out of the toxic environment, going NC and providing FULL transparency, including the FULL TRUTH. Lie detector tests have been mentioned as one method of getting this.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't think you know the entire story. I think she deserves an Oscar. 

She can't keep him from coming to the bar. 

What about the next time she is feeling down and he comes in and makes her feel good? What about the next guy that makes her feel good? 

I don't think your marriage can survive her working in this bar.

Todd


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Please know and understand that we are being hard on you because we want you and your marriage to succeed. As plants need proper amounts of water, food, and sunlight, so do marriages need the proper amount of transparency, honesty, and fidelity. 

Best case scenario - You and your W reconcile to the best marriage possible

Worst case scenario - You and your W divorce, yet you are able to move on to healthy relationships with other women down the road and not carry the baggage from this marriage.

What do you (and your W) really want? 

We are here for you.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Please know and understand that we are being hard on you because we want you and your marriage to succeed. As plants need proper amounts of water, food, and sunlight, so do marriages need the proper amount of transparency, honesty, and fidelity.
> 
> Best case scenario - You and your W reconcile to the best marriage possible
> 
> ...


Thank you, I appreciate everyone's comments...regardless of how harsh they may seem. 

I would like to work on our marriage, I still love her and I'm not ready to give up on my family...although I am unsure if I will be able to fully forgive her betrayal. 

She is more torn. She loves me, but realizes something is wrong with her and can't explain why her feelings for me have changed. A lot of it has to do with built up resentment and carrying the majority of the burden in our family. She has basically given up on the idea of our marriage, she wants to see what its like to be on her own. She wants to be happy and doesn't believe she can be in our marriage (She expressed this to me before her affair). But she's fine living together the next few months and seeing what happens. She says she doesn't want to be involved with a married man or any other man while we are still technically married and she realizes what she did was deeply wrong to both his wife and myself. I honestly think she's confused about a lot of things right now...we def need to see a marriage counselor.

I agree, she needs to quit her bar job...and she has even agreed too. She'd like to work there through the holidays for the money, then quit (the bars in a mall). 

My trust in her is broken, but when she's been brutally honest to me about every little detail I've asked...I guess that just makes me think she's done lying and holding back. Concerning her having sex with him, I drilled her over and over asking her...she has looked me in the eyes and promised on our kids lives she did not. Obviously, she eventually would have had I not discovered the affair after only a week and a half.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

How many times have we read that the WS looks the BS straight in the eye and swears on their parents lives, their childrens lives, the bible, etc, etc, etc. 

I know I got looked straight in the eye and mine swore on the bible, "God Is My Witness!". :rofl:

Seangar, we read this over and over and over again. Waywards lie. You know how you can tell? Her mouth is moving. And now you say she's non comittal? Well then, sounds like more is going on and she's in the fog. Hopefully you can shake off the denial. Click on the links in my signature.

Read LostCPAs thread, it's only one example

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html

HurtinginTN also said his WW would win an award. He went through several False Rs, which looks like you're headed toward if you cant shake off the denial.

But hey, if you don't listen to the advice of others who've gone before you, its your choice. Like they say, You can lead a horse to water......

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33380-sad-frustrating-thought-myself.html


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

So, is she going to tell his wife? If not, why not?


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## madwoman (Oct 20, 2011)

I know you love her. That much is clear. But you have already stated that it is over, and then you defend your wife. You are a good husband.

I would like to reason with you on a couple of fronts. First, to begin healing (you are so fresh into this) you need complete disclosure (you have only begun this process have you had the mind pictures yet?).

If she cares about you (I am sure she does) she will not want to hurt you more than necessary. She knows what she has done is wrong, but as a woman I can tell you that any woman who considers herself decent we are caregivers by nature, purposefully hurting someone who you still care about is rarely natural in us. 

If she can feed you the jist without the whole truth, she will. She will not want to expose you to that kind of pain.

So

There is a high likelyhood, that you do not know the entire truth. To heal from what has happened, she needs to be entirely truthful. You need full disclosure no matter how painful. 

Without it, you will carry a level of doubt for the rest of your relationship that will eat away any foundation that can be built from.

As to tell the OW. This type of behavior is NOT adapted to by anyone with the first discovery. Meaning, he likely has done this before with other women. His wife deserves to know, and he likely won't tell her. CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.........

It will stop his contact with your wife, even if she does not contact him, he may try to contact her, and provide his life with a distraction that helps keep it that way.

His wife needs to know so that IF your wife breaks NC, or visa versa, you have another set of eyes and ears helping you to be the first to know. 

I urge you to give yourself time to stop the reeling from what you are going through. Come back to this thread and read it as often as you need to. Spend sometime reading other peoples stories. It helps to anticipate the truth about what you will experience next.

Good luck


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think you are correct that the problem started with your wife in this bar. Bars aren't great atmospheres for married women without their husbands. Bars are fantasy grounds for people seeking casual sex.

Once your wife started working there, several men each night would probably start flirting with her in order to get casual sex. And your wife was frustrated by her real life and marriage with you, so these men seemed much more sexy and appealing than you did. You come with baggage. You come with bills to pay and little income to pay them. These men don't come with bills. They come with motorcycles or sports cars.

The way you turn her attention back to you is not to be more domesticated. She wants to be single. That doesn't mean she wants more picnics in the park with the kids. It means she wants to get drunk and have sex in a parking lot. If you want her attention, then you need to be willing to be the guy to do her in the parking lot.

Yes, you should have a job to help pay bills. And you should also help out around the house and with the kids. But when your wife tells you she's hungry for a steak, don't take her to a salad bar and then act confused when she goes for steak with someone else.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Seangar said:


> Thank you, I appreciate everyone's comments...regardless of how harsh they may seem.
> 
> I would like to work on our marriage, I still love her and I'm not ready to give up on my family...although I am unsure if I will be able to fully forgive her betrayal.
> 
> ...


Quote #1: Is this what you signed up for when you married? Living together with this concept is NOT marriage. There is a reason why she says this (read some of the posts Lord Mayhem suggested). Clearly she has betrayed you, yet wants the benefits of being married while being able to doubt her marriage. :rofl::lol:

Quote #2: Really? If she is serious and sorry about the affair and its damage to you - she quits NOW! some things are more important than money. i think its more to do with OM (and her addiction to the rush she gets when he's around). :scratchhead:

Quote #3: It might be intuitive to you, but how do you really know? See again Lord Mayhems (and others) comments about waywards and their lies. There is a small chance she has told you the complete truth. There's a 99% chance she hasn't told you everything. If she ever did, how could you ever verify? And she wants to continue working there and living as if married, although extremely unhappy and unsure if she wants to be married.


Read the other stories. Most people come on here thinking their marriage / affair story is unique and the one chance in one hundred that their spouse is extra special and honest and really means sorry. 

I think we are still looking for that 1 in one hundredeth affair story. Anyone here seen it yet?


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

My advice at this time would be to go ahead and file. You can stop that process at any time but may send her a very clear message that she needs to wake up.

I really think she it doing trickle truth and that you don't know how far she has gone. Since you are young and have no children, now is the time to file. DO NOT LET HER GET PREGNANT!

I know it is hard to face this and even harder without you being employed but there is never a good time to go through this. Best to just get it done and over with. As I said, you can stop the process any time but if she wont change for the better it will be even harder later on.

Lastly, there is one thing said on these boards over and over, every time a wayward's lips move, they are lying. As you continue to dig, expect to find what you don't wish to find.

Q~


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Let me ask you a simple question; if the roles were reversed, would she give you the same benefit of the doubt you are giving her? I think we all know the answer to that one. Think this through for a sec; waywards always tend to understate what really went down. Do you really think that after she put her mouth on his junk for a few 'seconds', that their consciences took hold? Really, in the middle of a BJ? You HAVE to know that more took place while you were out of town.

The only way you can assure yourself that another tryst doesn't take place under your watch is to inform his wife. Trust me, no matter what she tells you in terms of it being 'over', all it takes is one conversation, one text, the right e-mail from him to get her engines revved up again. To best safeguard this, his wife will need to be informed. A poster earlier hit it out of the park; she sees the OM as hot, exciting, spontaneous, etc. and you as the guy she's obligated to come home to after her shift ends. In other words, she sees you as unappealling, boring, and since you have had a hard time in the job market, not all that reliable. Until that changes, she will always think to herself 'what if' and what it would be like to be single again.

If I were you, I would do my best to improve myself in terms of getting a good job, finishing school, being a better dad to the kids, et al. If she still want to venture out, serve her the papers. I heard that divorced single moms with an adulturous history have such an easy time attracting guys who want them for more than just a booty call.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

One of your major problems is---you guys have been together since you were 18

She never got to go thru the normal dating/sowing your wild oats period in her life---that most people experience

That its self, is a good reason NOT to get married till your late 20's and beyond

Had she experienced others, she would not be needing this exploration period in her life, and she would have been ready to settle down, and stay in a good married situation

Her bartending has opened her up to all of these people who are doing what she missed

Maybe get her into IC, and let her work thru what is going on in her life, 

No matter what get ahold of the other wife any way you can---she deserves to know, and she can be ally in helping you keep this affair squelched

You don't really know for sure whether your wife is spending time with this guy or not---but you do know, he can come and go in that bar, as much as he wants---so by his wife knowing what is going on---your wife's lover can be stopped from going to that bar, due to pressure from his wife

As to whether your wife keep's her job or not---If you intend to try and R, and she is FULLY committed---she needs to leave the bartending---but only when YOU have a solid job, as your family does need finances to live on---if you decide to D., your wife---then let her keep the job, so there won't be any alimony settlement, in your D. proceeding.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jnj express said:


> Had she experienced others, she would not be needing this exploration period in her life, and she would have been ready to settle down, and stay in a good married situation


That makes sense. But it's not true. The more sexual partners a woman has before marriage, the higher the risk of divorce. Women who marry their first sexual partner have the lowest risk of divorce.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That makes sense. But it's not true. The more sexual partners a woman has before marriage, the higher the risk of divorce. Women who marry their first sexual partner have the lowest risk of divorce.


link?


stats like this are tentative from both sides


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## thinkforms (Nov 17, 2011)

I think your wife is unhappy within herself due to her own problems (probably insecurity, stress etc) and so her first reaction is to look to the marriage and place blame on it. 'You are meant to make me happy, why aren't you making me happy?'.
Happiness comes from within and is a state of mind. I believe that a partner can't provide you with full happiness, but can only add to it. Have you ever read Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars? There is a lot in there about how women build up resentments.

If it were me, I would let her go, give her what she thinks she wants. Do this by taking a break for a few months from eachother (at least 3). I'm not suggesting a break to see other people, but to work on yourselves, get therapy, read lots of books. She needs to have the chance to miss you, find happiness, strength and to realise what she wants is not all that its cracked up to be. Is breaking up a family with children worth it just for a few brief fun moments with other guys? She is seeking validation from them. I also agree with who said 'be the parking lot guy'

If you met at 18, she probably never experienced what its like to be single, and she may go through the rest of your marriage always tempted by it. So, if things do work out properly and get help, the outcome could be a good thing, it could kill that temptation and make her appreciate what she has more.

You mentioned marriage counselling, but you both need therapy alone and then consider doing so together.

The posts on this thread are frustrating; the details of what happened are irrelevant. She cheated, that's it. The OP has to start moving forward and they can't if they are stuck thinking about what else might have happened.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> link?


Premarital Sex, Premarital Cohabitation, and the Risk of Subsequent Marital Dissolution Among Women - Teachman - 2004 - Journal of Marriage and Family - Wiley Online Library



Almostrecovered said:


> stats like this are tentative from both sides


link?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MrQuatto said:


> Since you are young and have no children, now is the time to file. DO NOT LET HER GET PREGNANT!


The original post stated the couple has two children.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I won't take this too far off track but do you really want to contend that such studies aren't biased from both sides?

bottom line is that all types cheat


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> I won't take this too far off track but do you really want to contend that such studies aren't biased from both sides?


I agree that it is possible for research to be biased. But I don't see anything in Teachman's study that looks like bias. And I haven't seen a study that contradicts Teachman's conclusion.

If you think Teachman is biased, please tell me how. If you have seen research that supports the assertion that a high number of premarital sexual partners decreases the risk of divorce, please provide a link.



Almostrecovered said:


> bottom line is that all types cheat


True. But we're talking about quantifiable risk. Some people who never smoke end up getting lung cancer. But that doesn't change the fact that smoking greatly increases your risk for lung cancer.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and by the same token the statement "Had she experienced others, she would not be needing this exploration period in her life, and she would have been ready to settle down, and stay in a good married situation" still has validity, just because she isn't in a higher risk category doesn't mean that it isn't true that it happened that way (it happened to my wife as well)


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

My two cents:

I tend to believe Teachman's study - so you know where my bias is.

Whether or not you believe that study, I'll state it this way:

This is a matter of personal integrity (which means doesn't matter how many partners you've had pre-maritally). 

As someone has stated before, we all go thru phases of falling in and out of love throughout our marriages. We all have the opportunities and desire to see if the grass is really greener on the other side. This is part of what makes us human. 

The difference is personal integrity. Will we keep the marital promises we made to our spouses while we go through these in and out periods to the end? Some of us will struggle more than others because we have personal baggage that makes it more possible to make poor choices. Some of us have higher level of certain hormones and predilections to be addicted to the type of hormones that are involved with love and sex.

Our ability to cheat is again, a result of our choices. With this said, this is why I believe in Teachman's study: those premarital sex experiences are part of the baggage that helps us to self-justify opportunities for extra-marital love and sex. 

My wife has a friend who is on her second marriage. This friend grew up with the same values as my wife, yet had a mother and a father who strayed outside of their marital boundaries. When this friend was married to the first husband, she found it easier to be tempted by her husbands friends, and once she kissed this guy for the first time, told my wife how easy it is to do, once you get past that initial barrier of fear. After her 1st divorce, this friend had sexual relations with almost anyone like a candy of the day flavor, until she reunited with a high school love and married him. So far, she's been faithful to him (last we checked with her).

Either way, she's developed a sense of integrity to her marriage and decided that marriage to one decent, honest man was better than growing old and lonely, even with chance sexual encounters.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

btw- I never said I didn't believe the study, I just expressed my skepticism as there are too many political motivations involved in studies like this


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

What she is saying about the BJ, and the physical part of her relationship with the OM is a bald faced lie. and, you know it. 

You giving her the benefit of the doubt and choosing to drink that kool aid, is just denial. Your protecting yourself because the truth cuts to deep. I'm sorry. 

Yeah it sucks, but your wife was sucking off some other married man in a parking lot? like common trash. 10-1 she f*cked him too, and more than once would be my bet. Come to grips with that. If you want any chance of healing, take your medicine. If you don't, this will fester and decay in your soul and destroy you... It's not a question of if, it's only a matter of when.

Sorry brother. 

It's all lies. I could tell you more stories, but stories are everywhere here, they arent going to carry weight for you until you take off the blinders. Everything your W has said, and your reactions to what she has said has been common, scripted, and predictable.

Really man, I hate to say these things. But, you need to open your eyes. Clock's ticking, that truck is barreling down the road. Do not get hit broadside.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> and by the same token the statement "Had she experienced others, she would not be needing this exploration period in her life, and she would have been ready to settle down, and stay in a good married situation" still has validity, just because she isn't in a higher risk category doesn't mean that it isn't true that it happened that way (it happened to my wife as well)


If we were talking about a nonsmoker with lung cancer, would the statement, "Had she smoked two packs a day while she was younger, she wouldn't have developed cancer," be a valid statement? I don't think so.

Is it possible that a wife will cheat because she didn't have the chance to be promiscuous when she was single? Yes. Can we assume that someone who married their first sexual partner and later cheats did it for that reason? No.

What we do know is that women who marry their first sexual partner are significantly less likely to get divorced than those who slept around prior to marriage. That may be counter-intuitive to you, but that doesn't mean it's false.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> btw- I never said I didn't believe the study, I just expressed my skepticism as there are too many political motivations involved in studies like this


And you have shown none. This study wasn't commissioned by Focus on the Family or the Tea Party. Even if it were, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the study was biased.

If you believe the study is biased, point out the bias. Is there a selection bias whereby the only virgins they interviewed were still married? No. It seems you're simply assuming bias because the study doesn't support a position that you wish were true. That's not bias.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> And you have shown none. This study wasn't commissioned by Focus on the Family or the Tea Party. Even if it were, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the study was biased.
> 
> If you believe the study is biased, point out the bias. Is there a selection bias whereby the only virgins they interviewed were still married? No. It seems you're simply assuming bias because the study doesn't support a position that you wish were true. That's not bias.


are you even reading what I am saying?! I am not saying the study is invalid and only expressed doubt until you provided more info

I am dropping this before I get myself into trouble and take this thread away from the OP


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> btw- I never said I didn't believe the study, I just expressed my skepticism as there are too many political motivations involved in studies like this


BTW, I'm trying to tie both opinions together. Not implying bias on anyone's part.

On that note though - turns out, we ALL have bias (opinions are like butts - everyone has them and they all stink!) 

Now back to the regularly scheduled program:


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> What we do know is that women who marry their first sexual partner are significantly less likely to get divorced than those who slept around prior to marriage. That may be counter-intuitive to you, but that doesn't mean it's false.


Then that just sucks for me because I took my first wife's cherry and she cheated on me. I took my 2nd wife's cherry and she had an EA on me, and the only reason it didnt go PA was because of distance and visa issues. Geez, if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have any luck at all. 

Must also suck for my brother because I know that his wife was a virgin when he married her and she cheated on him too.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Geez, if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have any luck at all.
> 
> Must also suck for my brother because I know that his wife was a virgin when he married her and she cheated on him too.


Sounds like we're poster kids for the Muddy Waters song *'Born Under A Bad Sign'*

_Born under a bad sign
I been down since I begin to crawl
If it wasn't for bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all

Hard luck and trouble is my only friend
I been on my own ever since I was ten
Born under a bad sign
I been down since I begin to crawl
If it wasn't for bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all

I can't read, haven't learned how to write
My whole life has been one big fight
Born under a bad sign
I been down since I begin to crawl
If it wasn't for bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all

I ain't lyin'
If it wasn't for bad luck
I wouldn't have no kind-a luck
If it wasn't for real bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all

Wine and women is all I crave
A big legged woman is
gonna carry me to my grave
Born under a bad sign
I been down since I begin to crawl
If it wasn't for bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all

Yeah, my bad luck boy
Been havin' bad luck all of my days, yes_


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Any advice on how to locate him via his cell number? I have tried intelius, phonedetective, mylife...and have not had any luck. I want to contact his wife, but am having a hard time finding any info on him, all I have found is that his cell is verizon wireless.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

She have a Facebook account? If so, she's probably friended him and he MIGHT have his W as a friend (unless its a bogus account). You could reach her that way.

BTW, if she has a FB (Facebook) account - she needs to defriend/block him there. You could always do your own PI work - if you wanted, or enlist the help of a friend who could do some spying at the bar and figure out who he is and follow him home, or befriend him and dig for info. Maybe you could disguise yourself (would your wife know you if you put on a disguise and showed up to observe?)
or something. Anyone here have advice? PI is probably out of questions due to his financial situation.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Well...

I wont give you any direct advice on what to do or how to do it...

But....

If someone were to want to find someone else.... they _might_ consider spoofing a text message from their wifes phone number... maybe probing a bit... Maybe suggesting someone meet up with them... _maybe_ that person considers staking out the meet up place and taking down license numbers.

again, all just thinking out loud about what someone could hypothetically do if they were motivated enough.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if you have his email you can also insert that into the facebook find friends function and see if he turns up


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

I have my wifes facebook password and have had it for a long time. She wasn't dumb enough to contact him on or friend him on there. I have also searched for him on there and have come up with nothing. My wife asked him to not come up to her work anymore...so I'm not sure if he will. I asked her that if he does she'll txt me immediately, and after some initial doubts (about me coming into her work fighting him) she agreed that she would.

As for using her cell and pretending I'm her and that I want to meet up with him. She has already broken things off with him, wouldn't that be a bit suspicious?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

does the guy have a common name or something?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

lol, your still operating under the assumption she's telling you the whole truth.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

She has to tell you who it is. Full disclosure, right?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MrK said:


> She has to tell you who it is. Full disclosure, right?


She did tell him. The problem is that she doesn't know much about him. His name is Joe Smith and he comes into the bar and his cell number is ... That's not much to go on.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This OM appears to be a real smooth talking player, able to bed hot bartenders and waitresses. His BW needs to know.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> She did tell him. The problem is that she doesn't know much about him. His name is Joe Smith and he comes into the bar and his cell number is ... That's not much to go on.


Yep, that pretty much the situation I'm in. My sister has a friend at verizon and shes going to see if she cant get them to run his number for me (probably a long shot). Really my only option is to scope out the bar and wait for him (but my wife has told him not to come into her work anymore and she said he agreed)...so I'm not sure how good my chances are. 

I definitely dont want this sleazy ball loser getting away with this...especially when his wife is sitting at home taking care of their 1 month old baby. No wife deserves that


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

think it is illegal, now, to have someone look at the account at Verizon. I know this is what i was told.
But, my PI had connections and for $75, I got the info.
Ask a PI.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> lol, your still operating under the assumption she's telling you the whole truth.


It`d be funny if it wasn`t so sad.

I know she`s lying to him and so does pretty much everyone else in this thread.

If he was in someone elses thread who was acting like him he`d know the OP was being lied to but since he`s emotionally involved he can`t see what`s obvious to everyone else.

She went down on him at a minimum, I`m pretty sure (I Hope) it took him at least a little groundwork to get her to that point.
He had to talk to her about something therefore she knows more than she`s admitting.

They ALWAYS know more than they`ll admit.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Text him from a friend's phone or prepaid. Don't pretend to be your wife, but make someone up. Chances are your wife isn't the only one he's chasing and try for info that way.
I do join the rest in being certain you don't have the whole truth and it is following a predictable script.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Well I went into my wife's bar last night for the first time while she was working (I had previously eaten dinner there, its a restaurant/bar, I never experienced its after hours bar scene). Anyhow, I immediately was flooded with feelings of regret. Why did I never come in here before? How could I have let my wife work in a place like this? I'm a firm believer, that good people in bad situations are bound to make mistakes/bad decisions...we are all human...we are all far from perfect. When faced with constant temptation we're all bound to cave in. I realized that my wife working there gave our marriage zero chance of success. In the 5 months she worked there I saw a gradual change, she transformed into a great mother and wife who loved her husband more then anything...to a confused women who threw her once great values out the window, who was now unhappy with her life and curious about being single and being with other men. There is NO excuse for cheating, but I feel partly responsible for allowing her to be corrupted by such a toxic environment. She's faced with handsome successful single men every night, all hitting on her and wanting to show her an amazing time...and at home she has a husband who isn't showing her enough attention or excitement, has put almost all of the burden on her, and has no job. This was a recipe for disaster. 

I want to make it clear that I am in no way justifying what she did and am deeply ashamed of her for what she's done to me and our family. I guess it's just become easier for me to understand how my marriage got to this point and what could have been changed to avoid this. This whole event, as painful as it is, has been a tremendous learning experience for me and I have no doubt will help me grow as a person.

I'm done pleading with her, trying to open her eyes and make her realize what kind of person she's turned into and what she's throwing away. I'm done being afraid to lose her. I will always love her, but I now know that I have to let her go...as hard as that may be.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

If she won`t tell you who he is, his number or anything about him then yes you have to divorce her.

Have you discussed all the things you need from her in order to move on an reconcile?
Does she even want to reconcile?

Where`s her head at?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tacoma said:


> If she won`t tell you who he is, his number or anything about him then yes you have to divorce her.



You read this at all?

She gave name and number, guy has common name and he can't trace number to him thru inexpensive means
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Is she unwilling to get out of the environment?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> You read this at all?
> 
> She gave name and number, guy has common name and he can't trace number to him thru inexpensive means
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I read it and just re-read it

I think his wife is lying through her teeth about the OM.

She went on numerous dates with the guy and knows nothing about him?

Where does he work?
What does he do?
What did they talk about on these dates?

Ok she gave his name and he has his number but you know she knows more about him.

I`ll just go back to my first post in this thread.
I`ll even leave in the typos.




> You're making excuses for your wife.
> 
> I've had relationships with bartenders more than a few times.
> Their jobs disn't cause them to cheat.
> ...


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Seangar said:


> I'm done pleading with her, trying to open her eyes and make her realize what kind of person she's turned into and what she's throwing away. I'm done being afraid to lose her. I will always love her, but I now know that I have to let her go...as hard as that may be.


You, sir, have my respect. This statement, as painful as it is, has made you the most powerful that you've ever been in this relationship. 

Use it and make a difference. Bounce stuff of us for strength. Please vent here too. We are here for you and your family.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Not sure why you keep pointing to the bar environment as a causative factor. And, I am even less clear on why you feel you "allowed" this.
She is an adult. She needed no permission to work there , and , if you had objected, you would have been casrt as "controlling", jealous" etc.
Your entire premise, that all good people succumb to the temptations that were around your wife is untrue. There are many people that work in the same or similar environments who do not cheat.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

Seangar said:


> Thank you, I appreciate everyone's comments...regardless of how harsh they may seem.
> 
> I would like to work on our marriage, I still love her and I'm not ready to give up on my family...although I am unsure if I will be able to fully forgive her betrayal.
> 
> ...




Re-read the bolded underlined statements. That ought to tell you right there she straddled this guy and rode him several times hitting high notes like an opera singer! Come on! She's doing damage control! Aka trickle truthing you!

Her feelings changed for you (translation) because she got LAID very hard with this OM! Yes, figure it was the best sex she ever had, or will ever have! Drop her ASS! You didn't do anything wrong, don't let her Blameshift you for her affair!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I think you need to get on the stick and really find this guy's wife.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> If we were talking about a nonsmoker with lung cancer, would the statement, "Had she smoked two packs a day while she was younger, she wouldn't have developed cancer," be a valid statement? I don't think so.
> 
> Is it possible that a wife will cheat because she didn't have the chance to be promiscuous when she was single? Yes. Can we assume that someone who married their first sexual partner and later cheats did it for that reason? No.
> 
> What we do know is that women who marry their first sexual partner are significantly less likely to get divorced than those who slept around prior to marriage. That may be counter-intuitive to you, but that doesn't mean it's false.


I have to agree with this. My marriage partner was my one and only, we met at 18, I was never promiscuous, I would call myself a late bloomer really. We had been together for 25 years, and the thought to go outside my marriage never crossed my mind. Did I cheat because I wanted to experience something that I thought I had missed out on in my youth? not at all. Other reasons for my cheating came into play.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> She did tell him. The problem is that she doesn't know much about him. His name is Joe Smith and he comes into the bar and his cell number is ... That's not much to go on.


It could be an alias name of some sort he uses, perhaps he doesn't use his real name for sexual encounters......... So to thwart searches for him, now that would be cunning. Hard to track an alias. Do other poeple in the bar know him?


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I think you need to get on the stick and really find this guy's wife.


Agreed!

BTW, don't blame yourself over your wife working in a bar, or feel like you had anything to do with it! It's NOT your fault, besides, you couldn't have known, you're not a mind reader or someone who can see the future! Remember, you didn't fail, SHE DID by cheating on you! You can't control other peoples actions! They _do_ because they _want to do!_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

"Before we try to explain why some of these jobs might have high divorce rates, here are the top 15 professions and their divorce rates:

1. Dancer: 43%
2. Bartender: 38%
3. Massage therapist: 38%
4. Gaming cage: 34%
5. Extruding machine operator: 32%
6. Gaming: 31%
7. Factory: 29%
8. Phone operator: 29%
9. Nursing: 28%
10. Entertainers, sports: 28%
11. Porter: 28%
12. Telemarketer: 28%
13. Waiter: 27%
14. Roofer: 26%
15. Maid: 26%
The national divorce rate in 2009 was 10 percent. It's hard to know whether the above jobs are prone to more divorce or whether more unstable people are drawn to those professions. Professional dancers, athletes and entertainers, for example, have more opportunity to cheat on their spouses because they often work away from home and are surrounded by adoring fans. At least that's Tiger Woods' explanation."


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Whats the stats on SAHM?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Whats the stats on SAHM?


In this forum, it's 100%. But it's an infidelity support forum. 

And whats an extruding machine operator? And what about law enforcement and the military?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Not sure why you keep pointing to the bar environment as a causative factor.


Environment is absolutely a causative factor in this case. His wife changed when she started tending bar. That's not a coincidence.

Bars are set up to encourage and facilitate casual sex. Woe to the husband who ignores that plain and simple fact.



Arnold said:


> And, I am even less clear on why you feel you "allowed" this.
> She is an adult. She needed no permission to work there , and , if you had objected, you would have been casrt as "controlling", jealous" etc.


In a marriage, most big decisions are joint affairs. And one partner can usually put a foot down when something is a real problem. I can tell you that, if my wife told me she wanted to start stripping for extra money, I would not allow it. Call me controlling, or jealous, but I would have a wife that wasn't a stripper.

Likewise, if I told my wife that I planned on spending my evenings after work at the local pickup joint, she would have something to say about that.



Arnold said:


> Your entire premise, that all good people succumb to the temptations that were around your wife is untrue. There are many people that work in the same or similar environments who do not cheat.


While every person who tends bar will not cheat, bars are environments that encourage cheating. It is true that people who wouldn't cheat in a good environment will end up cheating after spending time in a bad environment.

To anyone else out there whose spouse is spending significant amounts of time in an environment that encourages infidelity, I encourage you to either put a stop to it, or make sure your marriage is absolutely rock solid.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

chapparal said:


> "Before we try to explain why some of these jobs might have high divorce rates, here are the top 15 professions and their divorce rates:
> 
> 1. Dancer: 43%
> 2. Bartender: 38%
> ...


I'm glad social worker isn't on that list, thought it might be due to the stress.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Environment is absolutely a causative factor in this case. His wife changed when she started tending bar. That's not a coincidence.
> 
> Bars are set up to encourage and facilitate casual sex. Woe to the husband who ignores that plain and simple fact.
> 
> ...


I feel that ifsomeone icheats, he or she would have done so regardless of tending bar. It is from within them.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> what about law enforcement and the* military*?


Absolutely through the roof.

According to a new study, about one-third of those who have served in the military have committed infidelity; *a rate which is double that of the general population.*

Results showed 32 percent of service men and women admitted to having had sexual affairs outside of the marriage. The rate for other married couples is close to 17 percent.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Whats the stats on SAHM?


A survey of the 1.9 million accounts on ******************, a dating site for people looking to cheat on their spouses, rounds up the most common occupations among the would-be infidelitous: 
For Women:
1. Teachers 
2. Stay-at-home Moms
3. Nurses
4. Administrative Assistants
5. Real Estate Agents 
For Men:
1. Physicians
2. Police Officers
3. Lawyers
4. Real Estate Agents
5. Engineers 


Depends on whose list you look at. SAHM and teachers are usually very high. There is a govt list that I can't find that if you go through the list it looks like the more people one meets in their daily life the more likely they are to cheat along with the circumstances of their profession.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> I feel that ifsomeone icheats, he or she would have done so regardless of tending bar. It is from within them.


If you believe that infidelity is the result of one spouse waking up and deciding, "Today is the day that I will cheat. Now, I just have to go find an affair partner," then I will simply say that I disagree.

Cheating is usually a gradual process. Temptation builds slowly from an external source. Maybe it's spending too much time with a coworker, or going on regular girls' nights out, or tending bar. But eventually, the cheating spouse succumbs to the temptation.

Do all spouses succumb to temptation, obviously not. But there are many more stories of spouses succumbing to temptation than there are stories of spouses who just make a conscious decision out of the blue to cheat.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> I feel that ifsomeone icheats, he or she would have done so regardless of tending bar. It is from within them.


I disagree. I think it's in everyone. It just takes the right or wrong combination of circumstances to weaken the boundries. 

IMHO...That is the variable, the strength of the personal boundries and morals of each individual.... 

Some crack easily, and some may be akin to breaking into fort knox... 

I would suggest that it does have a great deal to do with environment and the opportunites and temptations that the environment exposes someone too...


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## clb0208 (Aug 15, 2011)

My husband and I have worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years. It is where we met, and our relationship began. Since I am posting in this forum I don't need to explain the ups and downs in our marriage. It would be ridiculous to say that every bartender cheats. But I will say, from my experience in a number of different styles of restaurants/bars it is a breeding ground for infidelity.

The majority of restaurants have a very difficult time managing the sexual tension within the business walls. Sexual harrassment is a way of life, and almost found acceptable in the workplace. I have found myself in a number of situations with co-workers, bosses, customers that are unacceptable. While I never cheated on my husband, many of the conversations and relationships I had at work crossed the line by miles. 

My husband's emotional affairs (2) have both been with women he worked with. One being in a small, sports bar style place, another one at a fine dining restaurant. As far as I know these affairs were never physical, but that is irrelevant. In the last small establishment that I worked, their were countless married people who would cheat on their spouses with coworkers or customers. It was really unbelievable. You can't just chalk this up to a lot of unhappy marriages. Some of it has to be contributed to the environment.

There are certain careers that are less family friendly than others. If you think about it, the hospitality industry is a perfect storm for infidelity. Most of the employees are very friendly, outgoing, personable individuals. We make a living on being hospitable. We are surrounded by people having a great time, drinking, dating, celebrating. By the end of the shift we feel almost entitled to do the same regardless if we have a spouse or children at home. Most nights end with the employees partaking in shift drinks, sometimes carrying over to a local bar down the road. We spend the night at work discussing our personal lives with each other. It is like high school. In between tables we are talking about how stressed we are at home, how much our husband or wife is pissing us off. Our co workers/friends are their to provide support, and offer to buy us a drink after work, because we obviously need some time to wind down and relax. 

Those of you who say it has nothing to do with working in a restaurant... you are wrong. Every marriage goes through rough patches, no marriage is easy all the time. To have a successful marriage you have to put it first. You have to build a defense for everything in the world that tries to tear you apart. There are hundreds of things waiting for you to let your guard down, from our jobs to our computers. We must recognize that their are things out their that are not conducive to marriage. Once we realize these things exist we can remain aware and protect our marriages from these things. 

I am not saying that you cannot work in a restaurant and be happily married. My husband and I both still work in the industry and are closer and happier than ever. But it took us making rules like not going out for drinks after work, keeping open lines of communication if we are going to be late, we are both welcome at each others jobs whenever and are familiar with each others coworkers. We share all of our passwords for email, facebook, phone records, etc. 

If your wife cannot follow the rules that you set for her then she needs a 9-5 job that is a little more conducive for your relationship. If she was in love with you before she can be in love with you again. She is in the fog of single life. Everything looks amazing from behind that bar, everyone is having a great time, not a care in the world. She will realize one day that she is being foolish. The times of exploring lost childhood dreams of and playing the what if games of life are over when you are married and have children. It is time to grow up and be responsible for her kid's sake. If she is unwilling to do so, then you must protect yourself and your kids from her instability. If you choose to work it out, commit to it. It will be a long road, one with a lot of ups and downs. If you aren't in it for the long haul then it is over before you even begin reconciliation. 

I wish you the best of luck in finding peace within your family.


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

clb0208 said:


> My husband and I have worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years. It is where we met, and our relationship began. Since I am posting in this forum I don't need to explain the ups and downs in our marriage. It would be ridiculous to say that every bartender cheats. But I will say, from my experience in a number of different styles of restaurants/bars it is a breeding ground for infidelity.
> 
> The majority of restaurants have a very difficult time managing the sexual tension within the business walls. Sexual harrassment is a way of life, and almost found acceptable in the workplace. I have found myself in a number of situations with co-workers, bosses, customers that are unacceptable. While I never cheated on my husband, many of the conversations and relationships I had at work crossed the line by miles.
> 
> ...



Wisest and most supportive words I have yet to see on this forum. Thank you


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> If you believe that infidelity is the result of one spouse waking up and deciding, "Today is the day that I will cheat. Now, I just have to go find an affair partner," then I will simply say that I disagree.
> 
> Cheating is usually a gradual process. Temptation builds slowly from an external source. Maybe it's spending too much time with a coworker, or going on regular girls' nights out, or tending bar. But eventually, the cheating spouse succumbs to the temptation.
> 
> Do all spouses succumb to temptation, obviously not. But there are many more stories of spouses succumbing to temptation than there are stories of spouses who just make a conscious decision out of the blue to cheat.


I disagree. I think most cheaters are bored or dissatisfied or pissed at their spouse and decide to cheat. Then, they go looking for it. Just my opinion. Not sure either view can be proven.
Clearly, this can happen without a sudden decison made upon waking up. It might be contemplated for quite some time.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

chapparal said:


> A survey of the 1.9 million accounts on ******************, a dating site for people looking to cheat on their spouses, rounds up the most common occupations among the would-be infidelitous:
> For Women:
> 1. Teachers
> 2. Stay-at-home Moms
> ...


I can vouch for the teacher unfortunately. Not all of them are skanks; just the one I ended up marrying...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

chapparal said:


> ...the most common occupations among the would-be infidelitous:
> For Women:
> 1. Teachers
> 2. Stay-at-home Moms


Want to guess the only two jobs my wife has had for the past 15 years?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Simon Phoenix said:


> I can vouch for the teacher unfortunately. Not all of them are skanks; just the one I ended up marrying...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ditto. My stbXW is a elementary school teacher.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Sean, is your wife still working at the bar?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> I disagree. I think most cheaters are bored or dissatisfied or pissed at their spouse and decide to cheat. Then, they go looking for it. Just my opinion. Not sure either view can be proven.
> Clearly, this can happen without a sudden decison made upon waking up. It might be contemplated for quite some time.


It has been proven. Setting aside the anecdotal stories on forums such as this, which support my view over yours, there are innumerable scholarly articles and studies that show that environment influences behavior.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You can should sue her for support for you and your kid. 

In addition to name and number, the OM must have told her what he did for a living, where her worked etc.


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## Darth Vader (Jan 2, 2011)

Simon Phoenix said:


> I can vouch for the teacher unfortunately. Not all of them are skanks; just the one I ended up marrying...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Simon, why don't you just drop your wife's ass? Don't stay for the children! Better for them to come from a broken home, than to live in one! Don't do that to yourself! Besides, your Hex of a wife has done enough to destroy you already! Let her whine and cry about you leaving her, HA! Then blameshift her affair onto her like she probably did to you!:smthumbup:


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Another interesting study I came across was that women's survey result is greatly underestimated due to the fact they tend to falsify the survey. Although the study couldn't conclude what percentage adjustment is necessary to bring it upto the same credibility as men's, it is reasonable to assume the women's infidelity rate to be near that of men.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> It has been proven. Setting aside the anecdotal stories on forums such as this, which support my view over yours, there are innumerable scholarly articles and studies that show that environment influences behavior.


You are imagining things if you feel that all the stories here support your view. Lookat all the SAHMs that cheat.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Arnold said:


> You are imagining things if you feel that all the stories here support your view. Lookat all the SAHMs that cheat.


Sahm moms have a lot of time and oppurtunity during the day to cheat. On top of that many don't feel apperciated for all they do at home. Look who they cheat with on these threads. If you look at the stats the more people a person has personal contact with the more they are likely to cheat. Approximately 70 to 75% of men and women admit they would cheat if they KNEW they would not get caught. Add a little alcohol and I'm sure that stat goes up. Also, add the people that won't admit and what kind of number are you looking at? 

According to one cheaters website, the day after Valentines and the day after mothers day the number of new women signing up to cheat quadruples, so don't forget the flowers and date.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Arnold said:


> You are imagining things if you feel that all the stories here support your view. Lookat all the SAHMs that cheat.


My position is that environment influences behavior. Do you believe that SAHMs that cheat can't have environments conducive to cheating? You don't think that many of those SAHMs spent their days Facebooking with online boyfriends? I think that's a silly belief.

Again, you don't have to take my word for it. And you don't have to take the anecdotal stories on here that more often support my view over yours. You can just Google the term "environment influences behavior" to see many scholarly studies and articles that support my position.

I understand the attractiveness of your beliefs. If environment influences behavior (in this case, working in a bar) then there is often some warning before the affair happens. It's possible that the BS may have played a role in setting the stage for the DS to cheat. It's a much more attractive belief to say, "There is absolutely nothing that I did, or could have done, to keep my spouse from cheating." And sometimes that's true. But oftentimes, it's not.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Wouldn't it be best to stop this thread jack and help Seangar instead?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

morituri said:


> Wouldn't it be best to stop this thread jack and help Seangar instead?


Probably. I missed the fact that Arnold was banned, so he won't be seeing my reply. But I think Seangar's moved on to another thread. I was mainly arguing the point for the benefit of any lurkers who may be seduced using Arnold's logic. While the ultimate responsibility of an affair lies with the DS, the BS shouldn't allow himself/herself to believe that the DS was simply a ticking time bomb that was predestined to cheat.

Any spouse, especially one that's been betrayed, suspects betrayal, or has gotten a heads up like the ILYBINILWY speech, owes it to himself/herself to critically examine the environment with a keen eye to whether infidelity may be encouraged.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

morituri said:


> Wouldn't it be best to stop this thread jack and help Seangar instead?


Actually, look on his other thread-looks like he's helping himself!


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