# Swinging Lifestyle



## DaveinOC

I was talkin to one of my good friends about this and it just puts me in a state of numbness when I try to imagine this. 

Bascially, I just can't comprehend how any guy could be ok with his wife/gf getting drilled by some other dude right next to you. I admit, as hypocritical as it may sound, that it could be pretty erotic from a guy's standpoint to screw someone else's wife/gf right there. I am not even remotely considering this lifestyle (not that I see any problem with it if you are into this), but it's an interesting topic to think about. 

I want to know from experienced men out there to share their emotion with these encounters. As someone who finds the thought of this is upsetting, it would be interesting to get perspectives of people who are ok with it.


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## cashybum

I think your question would be better directed at the cuckold guys if your question is “how can you watch someone else drill your wife?”. I’m not a guy, but I would think that most don’t care because they are also drilling someone else’s wife at the same time.

As someone who has tried the whole swinging thing a handful of times... it was interesting. I just wanted to make him happy and also help him see that I was desirable. We were having issues and yes, we are now divorced although it wasn’t because of swinging. It was a last ditch effort to save our marriage which obviously didn’t work.




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## DaveinOC

Thanks for the reply. I understand you guys were using this as a "last ditch effort", so I am sure it required you to put in an effort to make him happy, but did that bother you in any way that he was having sex with another woman? I think it might have to do with the fact that I grew up under puritan of parents, thinking sex is sacred (wife and I were both virgin in our mid 20s when we first did it and I have never been with another woman), but even after being with my wife for over 7 years, the thought of her hooking up with someone else is upsetting to me.


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## marriageontherocks2

As far as swingers are concerned, my take is the guy simply doesn't love his wife anymore or he's sexually uninterested with her at the least, and swinging allows him to have sex with another woman or vice versa. He may say he loves her, but I don't think he actually does if he's just passing her around to other men. Whoever brings up swinging first is basically saying "I'm so bored ****ing you and I need to screw someone else, but you can too".

Cuckolding is different, this is men who don't want to have sex with other women, just watch their wives get screwed by a more dominant man with bigger equipment. It likely lies in severe low self-esteem due to feeling inferior, maybe he has a small penis (or perceived small penis) or he's too quick on the trigger. Basically they're masochists and get off on the ultimate humiliation.


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## DaveinOC

marriageontherocks2 said:


> As far as swingers are concerned, my take is the guy simply doesn't love his wife anymore or he's sexually uninterested with her at the least, and swinging allows him to have sex with another woman or vice versa. He may say he loves her, but I don't think he actually does if he's just passing her around to other men. Whoever brings up swinging first is basically saying "I'm so bored ****ing you and I need to screw someone else, but you can too".
> 
> Cuckolding is different, this is men who don't want to have sex with other women, just watch their wives get screwed by a more dominant man with bigger equipment. It likely lies in severe low self-esteem due to feeling inferior, maybe he has a small penis (or perceived small penis) or he's too quick on the trigger. Basically they're masochists and get off on the ultimate humiliation.


Yes, this is more in line with how I feel about the whole thing, but I've heard that some couples have enhanced sex life among themselves while living this lifestyle and alot of them stay together after they are done with that phase. This was strange to me so I wanted to know if people are genuinely and completely free of any jealousy or sense of betrayal while they are doing this.


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## CuddleBug

DaveinOC said:


> I was talkin to one of my good friends about this and it just puts me in a state of numbness when I try to imagine this.
> 
> Bascially, I just can't comprehend how any guy could be ok with his wife/gf getting drilled by some other dude right next to you. I admit, as hypocritical as it may sound, that it could be pretty erotic from a guy's standpoint to screw someone else's wife/gf right there. I am not even remotely considering this lifestyle (not that I see any problem with it if you are into this), but it's an interesting topic to think about.
> 
> I want to know from experienced men out there to share their emotion with these encounters. As someone who finds the thought of this is upsetting, it would be interesting to get perspectives of people who are ok with it.




I do have the fantasy of a FFM, but that's a fantasy and will remain just that. Same with a MMF. Once you open that panadora's box, you can't close it and the marriage usually ends in divorce.


If you're single, in an open dating relationship, that's different.


But could I actually have sex with another woman and Mrs CuddleBug at the same time? Fantasy yes, reality no.


She would not be impressed to say the least, from what I know.....but then again, she has never told me her fantasies, so I don't know.


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## Slartibartfast

..


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## TX-SC

I certainly could never do it. Any guy that touches my wife sexually is going to get his face punched. End of story. My wife feels the same way about me. The reality is that we love each other and we can't conceive of sharing each other with anyone else. I agree with the earlier post that anyone who would share their spouse probably doesn't love them deeply enough to care. They just want a side piece.

The thought of a FFM threesome is of course a turn on. But I could never do it with someone I loved. It could have only happened with a FWB or two random strangers. I don't share.

As Merle Haggard said in Okie from Muskogee, "We don't make a party out of loving!" 

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## wmn1

DaveinOC said:


> I was talkin to one of my good friends about this and it just puts me in a state of numbness when I try to imagine this.
> 
> Bascially, I just can't comprehend how any guy could be ok with his wife/gf getting drilled by some other dude right next to you. I admit, as hypocritical as it may sound, that it could be pretty erotic from a guy's standpoint to screw someone else's wife/gf right there. I am not even remotely considering this lifestyle (not that I see any problem with it if you are into this), but it's an interesting topic to think about.
> 
> I want to know from experienced men out there to share their emotion with these encounters. As someone who finds the thought of this is upsetting, it would be interesting to get perspectives of people who are ok with it.



I agree. Completely disgusting lifestyle. People who do this turn my stomach. predators IMO


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## wmn1

DaveinOC said:


> Yes, this is more in line with how I feel about the whole thing, but I've heard that some couples have enhanced sex life among themselves while living this lifestyle and alot of them stay together after they are done with that phase. This was strange to me so I wanted to know if people are genuinely and completely free of any jealousy or sense of betrayal while they are doing this.


very few stay together and very few do it. 

Thise who do this lack morals and shouldn't be married IMO.

Enhanced sex life ? Bang your wife more. Get extenze.

There you go easy enough


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## cashybum

DaveinOC said:


> Yes, this is more in line with how I feel about the whole thing, but I've heard that some couples have enhanced sex life among themselves while living this lifestyle and alot of them stay together after they are done with that phase. This was strange to me so I wanted to know if people are genuinely and completely free of any jealousy or sense of betrayal while they are doing this.




The ex husband and I did have AMAZING sex when we got back home from the swinger club...We seemed more connected for a few days afterwards which was nice. I had zero jealousy because I knew he needed me to get laid by anyone else since he is quite the shy quiet type and I’m more outgoing. 


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## ConanHub

Sigh...

When I was very young, I was with a small group of people that did 3, 4 or more and shared.

None of us were married.


I watched as a friend had sex with a woman I had feelings for. 

I could barely stand to be around her afterwards.

But I had been with her friend as well so maybe she was going through pain as well.

The whole situation disgusted me almost more than being sexually assaulted as a child.

Very glad that period of my life was over quickly with lessons learned.


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## I amJack

Women tend to want more variety of partners according to studies. They also frequently fantasize about getting it on with a stranger so IMO ...most women would love this but have hard time admitting it, even to themselves


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## Diana7

I amJack said:


> Women tend to want more variety of partners according to studies. They also frequently fantasize about getting it on with a stranger so IMO ...most women would love this but have hard time admitting it, even to themselves


I dont actually know any women who feel this way. 
I greatly value faithfulness, and love and respect my husband far too much to even think of having sex with another man. Having sex with a stranger who has no moral values and is cheating on his wife puts me right off. UGH.:frown2:


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## FeministInPink

So, I'm NOT a swinger. I could never do it, I am too possessive. But I know people who are, or who are poly, or who have open relationships... I've been to swingers parties. The swingers I've met are super nice people.

Frankly, it's a completely different mindset and way of thinking. One thing is because it's a shared experience, and it's viewed as such, and you and your partner choose the other couple together, and you both have to agree--each person has complete veto power. The other thing I've noticed about swinger couples is that they don't define their own relationship by the fact that they are sex partners, in the way that monogamous couples do. Yes, they have sex with one another, but it seems to me that they compartmentalize; their relationship is defined by the shared emotional intimacy and commitment, rather than sexual intimacy. (Poly people compartmentalize even further, with the idea that no one person can meet ALL your needs, so you have several relationships with several people, with each relationship nurtured and maintained to meet a certain subset of needs. It's very complicated. I'm lucky I can manage one relationship. That's more than enough for me.)

As @marriageontherocks2 said, cuckolding (where the wife gets sex from another male partner, usually with the husband watching, and where the husband has no other partners) is a different animal altogether. Cuckolding is a kink in which the husband gets turned on by watching his wife with another man, and it's usually because the husband is submissive and desires humiliation in some fashion. It also could be related to the desire to immerse oneself in a porn scene, like the husband is watching live-action porn in person, and he's married to the porn star... in other words, he's married to the hottest woman that every man wants to sleep with, and who [he and] other men masturbate to.

The two dynamics are VERY different. In swinging, there is supposedly no power dynamic or power exchange; both partners are fully equal in the exchange (but as it turns out, the wife usually has more power, because she's usually the one in higher demand and she's also usually the one who decides which couple they choose to swing with). With cuckolding, there is a clear power dynamic going on, in which the wife has all the power and the husband is helpless--he is helpless to "mate guard" his wife and prevent her from sleeping with other men. With the latter, the power exchange is intentional and negotiated and agreed upon by the couple; in the former, the power dynamic is instead unintentional and instead dictated by simply supply and demand.


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## Satya

I personally do not know anyone engaged in the lifestyle. If I do, they don't talk about it.

I don't understand it and I know it's not for us, but if a couple has jointly agreed to this lifestyle and all of its rules /conditions, and it's not actively hindering my quality of life, why is it any of my business anyway?


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## cashybum

FeministInPink said:


> So, I'm NOT a swinger. I could never do it, I am too possessive. But I know people who are, or who are poly, or who have open relationships... I've been to swingers parties. The swingers I've met are super nice people.
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, it's a completely different mindset and way of thinking. One thing is because it's a shared experience, and it's viewed as such, and you and your partner choose the other couple together, and you both have to agree--each person has complete veto power. The other thing I've noticed about swinger couples is that they don't define their own relationship by the fact that they are sex partners, in the way that monogamous couples do. Yes, they have sex with one another, but it seems to me that they compartmentalize; their relationship is defined by the shared emotional intimacy and commitment, rather than sexual intimacy. (Poly people compartmentalize even further, with the idea that no one person can meet ALL your needs, so you have several relationships with several people, with each relationship nurtured and maintained to meet a certain subset of needs. It's very complicated. I'm lucky I can manage one relationship. That's more than enough for me.)
> 
> 
> 
> As @marriageontherocks2 said, cuckolding (where the wife gets sex from another male partner, usually with the husband watching, and where the husband has no other partners) is a different animal altogether. Cuckolding is a kink in which the husband gets turned on by watching his wife with another man, and it's usually because the husband is submissive and desires humiliation in some fashion. It also could be related to the desire to immerse oneself in a porn scene, like the husband is watching live-action porn in person, and he's married to the porn star... in other words, he's married to the hottest woman that every man wants to sleep with, and who [he and] other men masturbate to.
> 
> 
> 
> The two dynamics are VERY different. In swinging, there is supposedly no power dynamic or power exchange; both partners are fully equal in the exchange (but as it turns out, the wife usually has more power, because she's usually the one in higher demand and she's also usually the one who decides which couple they choose to swing with). With cuckolding, there is a clear power dynamic going on, in which the wife has all the power and the husband is helpless--he is helpless to "mate guard" his wife and prevent her from sleeping with other men. With the latter, the power exchange is intentional and negotiated and agreed upon by the couple; in the former, the power dynamic is instead unintentional and instead dictated by simply supply and demand.




Great explanation! The few times I went, it was mainly the females who connected first. It was actually one of the best parts! I hate rejecting people and hurting their feelings but it was like other girls understood each other much better without as many awkward conversations.

It’s not something I think I’ll do again but I made a few awesome friends and I’m grateful for the experience. 


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## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> So, I'm NOT a swinger. I could never do it, I am too possessive. But I know people who are, or who are poly, or who have open relationships... I've been to swingers parties. The swingers I've met are super nice people.
> 
> Frankly, it's a completely different mindset and way of thinking. One thing is because it's a shared experience, and it's viewed as such, and you and your partner choose the other couple together, and you both have to agree--each person has complete veto power. The other thing I've noticed about swinger couples is that they don't define their own relationship by the fact that they are sex partners, in the way that monogamous couples do. Yes, they have sex with one another, but it seems to me that they compartmentalize; their relationship is defined by the shared emotional intimacy and commitment, rather than sexual intimacy. (Poly people compartmentalize even further, with the idea that no one person can meet ALL your needs, so you have several relationships with several people, with each relationship nurtured and maintained to meet a certain subset of needs. It's very complicated. I'm lucky I can manage one relationship. That's more than enough for me.)
> 
> As @marriageontherocks2 said, cuckolding (where the wife gets sex from another male partner, usually with the husband watching, and where the husband has no other partners) is a different animal altogether. Cuckolding is a kink in which the husband gets turned on by watching his wife with another man, and it's usually because the husband is submissive and desires humiliation in some fashion. It also could be related to the desire to immerse oneself in a porn scene, like the husband is watching live-action porn in person, and he's married to the porn star... in other words, he's married to the hottest woman that every man wants to sleep with, and who [he and] other men masturbate to.
> 
> The two dynamics are VERY different. In swinging, there is supposedly no power dynamic or power exchange; both partners are fully equal in the exchange (but as it turns out, the wife usually has more power, because she's usually the one in higher demand and she's also usually the one who decides which couple they choose to swing with). With cuckolding, there is a clear power dynamic going on, in which the wife has all the power and the husband is helpless--he is helpless to "mate guard" his wife and prevent her from sleeping with other men. With the latter, the power exchange is intentional and negotiated and agreed upon by the couple; in the former, the power dynamic is instead unintentional and instead dictated by simply supply and demand.


We have been approached more than a couple times and, with the exception of one time, the woman engaged my wife first while the man hung back making friendly small talk with me.

The one time that was different.....We were out with a much younger crowd celebrating our nephew's birthday. We were eating and drinking and feeling good when I got into a friendly conversation with one of my nephew's friends. I told him his wife was very attractive and he told her. They both joined me and pretty soon she asked me if Mrs. C and I ever switched partners?

I had really stepped blindly into that one! Thanks alcohol!!!

I clumsily backed out and the rest of the evening was awkward.

It was flattering though. They were almost young enough to be our kids and very attractive. He was 6'4" and in very good shape. She was possibly a shade taller than my 5'10" and a luxuriously beautiful blonde.

The swingers I have met have all been very nice and fun folks. Just not for me.


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## thefam

I amJack said:


> Women tend to want more variety of partners according to studies. They also frequently fantasize about getting it on with a stranger so IMO ...most women would love this but have hard time admitting it, even to themselves


Thats total BS. My opnion is its disgusting. I don't even want to be friends with couples who are into that kind if lifestyle. Why not stay single?


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## NobodySpecial

The bottom line is that people posting about swinging almost never want to really know. There is very little point in attempting to explain it. We are all a bunch of super freaks. End of story.


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## anchorwatch

I amJack said:


> Women tend to want more variety of partners according to studies. They also frequently fantasize about getting it on with a stranger so IMO ...most women would love this but have hard time admitting it, even to themselves


Jack, Your views about women are skewed towards your own reality. Have you started counseling?


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## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> The bottom line is that people posting about swinging almost never want to really know. There is very little point in attempting to explain it. We are all a bunch of super freaks. End of story.


Pay attention. I don't have bad things to say about my encounters.

There is a militant attitude that sometimes pops up that really gets everyone's goat.

I can understand the defensive attitude with some posts being unnecessarily harsh.


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## SunCMars

FeministInPink said:


> So, I'm NOT a swinger. I could never do it, I am too possessive. But I know people who are, or who are poly, or who have open relationships... I've been to swingers parties. The swingers I've met are super nice people.
> 
> Frankly, it's a completely different mindset and way of thinking. One thing is because it's a shared experience, and it's viewed as such, and you and your partner choose the other couple together, and you both have to agree--each person has complete veto power. The other thing I've noticed about swinger couples is that they don't define their own relationship by the fact that they are sex partners, in the way that monogamous couples do. Yes, they have sex with one another, but it seems to me that they compartmentalize; their relationship is defined by the shared emotional intimacy and commitment, rather than sexual intimacy. (Poly people compartmentalize even further, with the idea that no one person can meet ALL your needs, so you have several relationships with several people, with each relationship nurtured and maintained to meet a certain subset of needs. It's very complicated. I'm lucky I can manage one relationship. That's more than enough for me.)
> 
> As @marriageontherocks2 said, cuckolding (where the wife gets sex from another male partner, usually with the husband watching, and where the husband has no other partners) is a different animal altogether. Cuckolding is a kink in which the husband gets turned on by watching his wife with another man, and it's usually because the husband is submissive and desires humiliation in some fashion. It also could be related to the desire to immerse oneself in a porn scene, like the husband is watching live-action porn in person, and he's married to the porn star... in other words, he's married to the hottest woman that every man wants to sleep with, and who [he and] other men masturbate to.
> 
> The two dynamics are VERY different. In swinging, there is supposedly no power dynamic or power exchange; both partners are fully equal in the exchange (but as it turns out, the wife usually has more power, because she's usually the one in higher demand and she's also usually the one who decides which couple they choose to swing with). With cuckolding, there is a clear power dynamic going on, in which the wife has all the power and the husband is helpless--he is helpless to "mate guard" his wife and prevent her from sleeping with other men. With the latter, the power exchange is intentional and negotiated and agreed upon by the couple; in the former, the power dynamic is instead unintentional and instead dictated by simply supply and demand.


No, to Cuckholding.

Men would bleed, their lifeblood having no retrieves.
Men would die.
As I would die.... along with these thieves.


What I perceive as mine. Remains so.
Until taken from by force, all else remains...a, 'no go'.


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## SunCMars

If you want your wife, the love of your life to enjoy other men.
Then divorce her, set her free, to copulate with a few or with ten.


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## arbitrator

*Don’t bother calling me as a witness to extol all of the attributes of threesomes!

When I’m in love with a woman, loving sex is reserved only for her and no one else!

And let’s just say that I earnestly pray that she would preeminently feel the very same way about me!*


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## NobodySpecial

ConanHub said:


> Pay attention. I don't have bad things to say about my encounters.
> 
> There is a militant attitude that sometimes pops up that really gets everyone's goat.
> 
> I can understand the defensive attitude with some posts being unnecessarily harsh.


Am I misunderstanding you? Who is being defensive here? Swingers have been called all kinds of names on this thread. I also believe that people's filters see militancy where none is present. Post after post on these boards whose sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle. Why? They pretend to innocently claim to be interested in the PoV. Then dismiss.


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## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> Am I misunderstanding you? Who is being defensive here? Swingers have been called all kinds of names on this thread. I also believe that people's filters see militancy where none is present. Post after post on these boards whose sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle. Why? They pretend to innocently claim to be interested in the PoV. Then dismiss.


I have seen disrespect on both sides, felt disrespected and done some disrespecting myself.

For my part, I apologize.


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## DaveinOC

NobodySpecial said:


> Post after post on these boards whose sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle. Why? They pretend to innocently claim to be interested in the PoV. Then dismiss.


that's a pretty prejudiced claim. the sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle? it could just never be that people want to know what different PoV exist in the community? does that mean if I go around researching about serial killers and wanting to know about criminal's mental justification for their crimes, my sole purpose HAS to be that I want to stress my morale superiority over them? Seriously I see some validity in what you are saying, but you cannot criticize people in absolutes when you are doing exactly the same thing. 

I was interested in hearing about people who's been there done that in because honestly it of many different lifestyle choices married couples make, swinging is one the most radical and socially taboo one, and since it is the polar end of what is generally deemed "normal marriage" I was hoping to gain some perspective on it to be more open minded about things. If you feel that people have other intent for bringing up such topic, I can respect that, but I am also inclined to defend my position if you make such claim directed to my question.


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## ConanHub

DaveinOC said:


> that's a pretty prejudiced claim. the sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle? it could just never be that people want to know what different PoV exist in the community? does that mean if I go around researching about serial killers and wanting to know about criminal's mental justification for their crimes, my sole purpose HAS to be that I want to stress my morale superiority over them? Seriously I see some validity in what you are saying, but you cannot criticize people in absolutes when you are doing exactly the same thing. Some people on here, sigh.


She is actually a neat lady but has experienced animosity that has been unwarranted.

I can see her POV.


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## DaveinOC

ConanHub said:


> She is actually a neat lady but has experienced animosity that has been unwarranted.
> 
> I can see her POV.


ConanHub, I am sure she is a good person and do see her point. I just honestly wasn't meant to stir things up and I apologize if it offended anyone. Whether anyone believes or not, I asked strictly out of curiosity of something that is unknown to me. Up until 2 years ago, I didn't even know swinging was so prevalent around my own community, I thought it was something that happens in some clandestine place million miles away, so I didn't really think too much about it, but the topic came up recently when my friend was sharing with me how him and his wife were approached by another couple at a Target store lol.


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## NobodySpecial

DaveinOC said:


> that's a pretty prejudiced claim. the sole purpose is to lambaste that lifestyle? it could just never be that people want to know what different PoV exist in the community? does that mean if I go around researching about serial killers and wanting to know about criminal's mental justification for their crimes, my sole purpose HAS to be that I want to stress my morale superiority over them? Seriously I see some validity in what you are saying, but you cannot criticize people in absolutes when you are doing exactly the same thing.
> 
> I was interested in hearing about people who's been there done that in because honestly it of many different lifestyle choices married couples make, swinging is one the most radical and socially taboo one, and since it is the polar end of what is generally deemed "normal marriage" I was hoping to gain some perspective on it to be more open minded about things. If you feel that people have other intent for bringing up such topic, I can respect that, but I am also inclined to defend my position if you make such claim directed to my question.


Perhaps I was rash. I thought your post was prejudicial with the use of the word "drilling". (BTW, If you "drill" your wife, I can see why she would want to swing.  JUST KIDDING!) I am sorry for accusing you. 

I am not a man. But I am married to one. As with any successful venture into ethical non-monogamy, we talk A LOT. So I think I can present his PoV. I am not speaking to any of the myriad of reasons that I would think are not very smart. Yes, some men get into swinging for the sole purpose of getting some fresh. (They do tend to be not very personable and, thus, not very successful. But that is a side bar.) I am speaking of a couple who used to swing and enjoyed it very much with no damage to our relationship. If anything, it brought us closer together. (Caveat. Swinging will never, ever, ever, ever fix that which is broken. If not already strong, and either party suggests it, I am guessing at really unhealthy or dangerous motives.) 

It starts with who the man is and how he feels about himself about sex. About himself, he is very self confident. Not false braggart kind of thing, but genuine self esteem. He also does not have an ounce of jealousy. It just is not wired into him to the degree it is in many people. He has felt it a couple of times, and his response was "Huh, that was weird". Sex is not the defining element of our relationship to him (or me). It is one part. He has no sense of ownership or ... I am searching for a word and not coming up with it. So let's go with ownership for now even though it is not quite right. Sex is not always about making love. Yes, we make love. But sometimes it is just good, clean fun!


So on the plus side. It's fun. When we started, the newness was exciting. You get to experience things you have never experienced before. As we proceeded, we found some of our best friendships came out of that experience. There are different ways to go about anything, including swinging. There are the no outside contact folks (not us). And the friends approach (us). I was just chatting with my first partner this morning with whom I have been friends for over 20 years. On the minus side. Risk of hurt feelings, and yes they have happened. A misunderstanding of a boundary or some such. But they were handled in the same way as hurt feelings on any other matter. And as with any stress successfully navigated, it made us stronger. Cons don't include feelings of inadequacy or comparison because he just does not roll that way. He knows who he is. He knows I love him, like him would choose him over any one anywhere any time. 

It often strikes me odd that men understand the desire for the men to have sex with another woman... but that a woman might enjoy sex with another man, or another woman!, is somehow indicative of her lack of desire for her husband. That has never made sense to me. 

We don't swing anymore. We do something much more abhorrent to this board, polyamory. (Yes, believe it or not, not everyone believes love has to be exclusive to be really meaningful...) So off I go to hear about how awful we are. 

Cheers.


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## NobodySpecial

thefam said:


> Thats total BS. My opnion is its disgusting. I don't even want to be friends with couples who are into that kind if lifestyle.


It is very likely you already are.


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## ConanHub

Thank you @NobodySpecial

For putting yourself out there.

I almost started another thread.
I think the dialog between swingers and monogamists can be very beneficial if respect is offered and given by both sides, I know this isn't news that you.

A couple terms that could be cleared up or explained that would lessen some animosity are "vanilla" and "confident".

Having someone refer to a monogamist as boring,"vanilla" or hinting that they are insecure because they don't share has caused me to get my hackles up.

To be fair, I don't think some of the confidence comments were aimed at dissing someone else but some of them absolutely were.

"Vanilla" needs to go as a term altogether.

I could be a very successful and in demand swinger as could Mrs C.

I am built like a brick house with plenty of bedroom ability. Mrs. C is a very petite and very shapely woman that gets almost too hot to handle when she gets her motor revving.

We don't because we are monogamous.

We have been approached quite a lot.

I have honestly never been offended. Quite the opposite actually, flattered. No swinger has been anything but wonderful company and great fun to be around.

I do believe there are many concepts, aside from sharing, that monogamists can learn from swingers.

But, not all of us monogamists are without a clue.

Some of us are the most voracious dragons of sex this side of decadent Rome.


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## TX-SC

"I'm going to hang out with my boyfriend"

That would be one of the last sentences she would make before becoming my soon to be ex.

I don't know anyone that swings or has an open relationship now. I have known a few in the past and all but one resulted in a break up or divorce. That one MAY be divorced now, but I lost touch with them years ago so I have no idea. 

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## sokillme

My love is possessive, so is my wife's. Thank God. I want my wife to want all of me, I want her to be a spoiled selfish brat when it comes to wanting me (No sharing). How glorious.


----------



## Lila

NobodySpecial said:


> It is very likely you already are.


Ain't that the truth. We have a friend who we have known for 25 years. She and her husband have been swinging for as long as we've known them.....and we didn't find out until a few years ago. You would never guess what they were doing behind closed doors by looking at them. These are church going, salt of the earth people. We have since attended a few of their house parties and met some very nice folks....and no, we are not swingers, never have been.

The thing I learned about swingers from talking to them is that they really have a passion for everything having to do with sex. It's not about the intimacy or emotional bonding. It's about the act. It's like a social club where the hobby is sex. I'm not sure it that makes sense but I don't know how else to explain it.

Something else I learned which may be exclusive to my friend's lifestyle friends is that the women are ravenous. To hear them talk, all of these women are multi-orgasmic sex machines. 

TBH, even if my husband and I considered it, we would make crappy swingers because we're just not THAT into sex.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

marriageontherocks2 said:


> As far as swingers are concerned, my take is the guy simply doesn't love his wife anymore or he's sexually uninterested with her at the least, and swinging allows him to have sex with another woman or vice versa. He may say he loves her, but I don't think he actually does if he's just passing her around to other men. Whoever brings up swinging first is basically saying "I'm so bored ****ing you and I need to screw someone else, but you can too".
> 
> Cuckolding is different, this is men who don't want to have sex with other women, just watch their wives get screwed by a more dominant man with bigger equipment. It likely lies in severe low self-esteem due to feeling inferior, maybe he has a small penis (or perceived small penis) or he's too quick on the trigger. Basically they're masochists and get off on the ultimate humiliation.


I think this is probably the most spot-on assessment of this lifestyle.


----------



## sokillme

Lila said:


> Ain't that the truth. We have a friend who we have known for 25 years. She and her husband have been swinging for as long as we've known them.....and we didn't find out until a few years ago. You would never guess what they were doing behind closed doors by looking at them. These are church going, salt of the earth people. We have since attended a few of their house parties and met some very nice folks....and no, we are not swingers, never have been.
> 
> The thing I learned about swingers from talking to them is that they really have a passion for everything having to do with sex. It's not about the intimacy or emotional bonding. It's about the act. It's like a social club where the hobby is sex. I'm not sure it that makes sense but I don't know how else to explain it.
> 
> Something else I learned which may be exclusive to my friend's lifestyle friends is that the women are ravenous. To hear them talk, all of these women are multi-orgasmic sex machines.
> 
> TBH, even if my husband and I considered it, we would make crappy swingers because we're just not THAT into sex.


How do they square the lifestyle with going to church? Don't get that at all. Those are like two diametrically opposing world views.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

sokillme said:


> My love is possessive, so is my wife's. Thank God. I want my wife to want all of me, I want her to be a spoiled selfish brat when it comes to wanting me (No sharing). How glorious.


That makes it a special love. Without that, you got nothing. Might as well be animals in the wild getting it on with whatever.


----------



## Lila

sokillme said:


> How do they square the lifestyle with going to church? Don't get that at all. Those are like two diametrically opposing world views.


I don't know but there are plenty of things church goers do each and every day that goes against teachings and in many ways hurts others. I'm no longer a church goer but if I was, I wouldn't blink an eye at their actions. Everything they do is consensual, they seem very happy, and their family is intact. That's a win in my book.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

sokillme said:


> How do they square the lifestyle with going to church? Don't get that at all. Those are like two diametrically opposing world views.


I was wondering the same thing. I'm assuming it's a Christian church and even if the extra-marital sex is approved by each spouse, it's still adultery in the bible and also considered a mortal sin. Personally I'm not religious but if I was I wouldn't fake it. I'd be authentic about it and abide by the rules. Swingers that go to church are faking their faith IMO.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> How do they square the lifestyle with going to church? Don't get that at all. Those are like two diametrically opposing world views.


Exactly. Sex outside marriage is forbidden for a Christian. Swinging has no place in a Christians life. 

I just don't get the appeal of this, it makes me want to go 'yuk'. For me sex and love are intertwined and sex alone is empty and meaningless. Faithfulness is such a vital part of marriage. The fact that a man wants to do this would make me want to run a mile.


----------



## Diana7

Lila said:


> I don't know but there are plenty of things church goers do each and every day that goes against teachings and in many ways hurts others. I'm no longer a church goer but if I was, I wouldn't blink an eye at their actions. Everything they do is consensual, they seem very happy, and their family is intact. That's a win in my book.


For Christians faithfulness in marriage is vital. IF they didn't go to church they can live as they like, but to pretend to be a Christian by going to church while living this way is massively hypocritical. Yes we all do things that are wrong, but they are choosing to live a lifestyle that goes completely against Gods teaching on marriage.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Lila said:


> The thing I learned about swingers from talking to them is that they really have a passion for everything having to do with sex. It's not about the intimacy or emotional bonding. It's about the act. It's like a social club where the hobby is sex. I'm not sure it that makes sense but I don't know how else to explain it.


LOL! That'll work.



> Something else I learned which may be exclusive to my friend's lifestyle friends is that the women are ravenous. To hear them talk, all of these women are multi-orgasmic sex machines.


LOL! Um. I am not saying anything to this since my comment may tend to incriminate me. 



> TBH, even if my husband and I considered it, we would make crappy swingers because we're just not THAT into sex.


Know thyself!


----------



## NobodySpecial

ConanHub said:


> Thank you @NobodySpecial
> 
> For putting yourself out there.
> 
> I almost started another thread.
> I think the dialog between swingers and monogamists can be very beneficial if respect is offered and given by both sides, I know this isn't news that you.
> 
> A couple terms that could be cleared up or explained that would lessen some animosity are "vanilla" and "confident".
> 
> Having someone refer to a monogamist as boring,"vanilla" or hinting that they are insecure because they don't share has caused me to get my hackles up.


I certainly used the term vanilla before until I learned that some people find vanilla boring. I like vanilla ice cream! It is not boring to me! But I don't use that word anymore since it raises this impression in folks. But sometimes we serve chocolate. 



> To be fair, I don't think some of the confidence comments were aimed at dissing someone else but some of them absolutely were.


Mine? I did not mean to diss anyone. But you do see comments on this topic whereby folks fear comparison. The lack of comparison fear is what I meant by confidence. Certainly someone can have tons of confidence and choose whatever darned lifestyle they want. Someone who is NOT confident would not be happy swinging.



> "Vanilla" needs to go as a term altogether.
> 
> I could be a very successful and in demand swinger as could Mrs C.
> 
> I am built like a brick house with plenty of bedroom ability. Mrs. C is a very petite and very shapely woman that gets almost too hot to handle when she gets her motor revving.
> 
> We don't because we are monogamous.


Yay! Go for it.



> We have been approached quite a lot.
> 
> I have honestly never been offended. Quite the opposite actually, flattered. No swinger has been anything but wonderful company and great fun to be around.
> 
> I do believe there are many concepts, aside from sharing, that monogamists can learn from swingers.
> 
> But, not all of us monogamists are without a clue.


Like you are not as lightened as we swingers? That attitude makes me nuts. If I have come across that way, it was not intentional.



> Some of us are the most voracious dragons of sex this side of decadent Rome.


And some people aren't. All of these things are good. Voracious monogamists, non-voracious monogamists, ETHICAL non-monogamists (vs lying sacks of crap that SAY they are ethical while their spouse is at home clueless. It happens.) Know thyself. Sounds like you're happy. Sing it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> Exactly. Sex outside marriage is forbidden for a Christian. Swinging has no place in a Christians life.


<Shrug> We saw a documentary quite a few years ago which featured quite a few Christian swingers. I don't recall their rationale since I am not religious of any sort. I wonder how Jesus would view this? No idea. But there are Christian swingers out there, in any event.


----------



## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> <Shrug> We saw a documentary quite a few years ago which featured quite a few Christian swingers. I don't recall their rationale since I am not religious of any sort. I wonder how Jesus would view this? No idea. But there are Christian swingers out there, in any event.


Well. I'll leave the non monogamy expertise in your court but swingers that claim Christianity are like 500lb. sumo proclaiming they are 5 year old ballerinas.

Just because you paint your butt blue and say your from mars doesn't make it so.:grin2:


----------



## DaveinOC

ConanHub said:


> Well. I'll leave the non monogamy expertise in your court but swingers that claim Christianity are like 500lb. sumo proclaiming they are 5 year old ballerinas.
> 
> Just because you paint your butt blue and say your from mars doesn't make it so.:grin2:


lol but i think with all the crazy stuff going on in 2017, 500 lbs sumo wrestlers CAN be 5 year old ballerinas.


----------



## NobodySpecial

ConanHub said:


> Well. I'll leave the non monogamy expertise in your court but swingers that claim Christianity are like 500lb. sumo proclaiming they are 5 year old ballerinas.
> 
> *Just because you paint your butt blue and say your from mars doesn't make it so*.:grin2:


Absolutely! But for whatever reason divorce seems to be given a Christian pass as well as a host of other "sins" that people regularly do who call themselves Christian. If swingers want to call themselves Christian, who am I to tell them not to? Like they'd care anyway. :grin2:


----------



## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> Absolutely! But for whatever reason divorce seems to be given a Christian pass as well as a host of other "sins" that people regularly do who call themselves Christian. If swingers want to call themselves Christian, who am I to tell them not to? Like they'd care anyway. :grin2:


Divorce is allowed. Lets not threadjack.

Everyone sins but folks who are purposefully doing it at the same time claiming they worship my God are full of something and it ain't sunshine.


----------



## GuacaColey

I really like mint chocolate chip ice cream. I could eat it every night. But if someone stuck their dirty finger in the middle of my ice cream I would no longer want it. Even though their finger wasn't still in it I would know it had been inside my ice cream. And who knows where they stuck their finger before. 

Yeah it's like that for me. Only I'm a girl... so my analogy might be a little off. 

But no judgement for those who do... whatever works for you in your marriage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial

GuacaColey said:


> I really like mint chocolate chip ice cream. I could eat it every night. But if someone stuck their dirty finger in the middle of my ice cream I would no longer want it. Even though their finger wasn't still in it I would know it had been inside my ice cream. And who knows where they stuck their finger before.
> 
> Yeah it's like that for me. Only I'm a girl... so my analogy might be a little off.
> 
> But no judgement for those who do... whatever works for you in your marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did they wash their hands first?  I am glad you know where you stand! That is wonderful.


----------



## sandcastle

NobodySpecial said:


> The bottom line is that people posting about swinging almost never want to really know. There is very little point in attempting to explain it. We are all a bunch of super freaks. End of story.


I know and I don't care just so long as you don't **** in my woodpile without my permission.

Swing away- 
I do draw the line at children and animals.

Other than that- have at it!


----------



## Lostinthought61

Diana7 said:


> Exactly. Sex outside marriage is forbidden for a Christian. Swinging has no place in a Christians life.
> 
> I just don't get the appeal of this, it makes me want to go 'yuk'. For me sex and love are intertwined and sex alone is empty and meaningless. Faithfulness is such a vital part of marriage. The fact that a man wants to do this would make me want to run a mile.


Diana, 

i do not want to turn this into a theological discourse on religion, but let's be clear all religions from the beginning of time are a concept of man, its a man concept, all the "holy" books were written by men for men to impose on everyone including women. so when you Christian perceptions and beliefs, these to have changed and adapted to meet the needs of the some head person. So what if swingers go to church who cares honestly who freaking cares...does it make you more "Holier" to exclude them from the church? This is exactly what the notion of religion does...it give power to people to exclude others. It has from the beginning of time, it excludes and it kills in the name of something. Isn't the point of religion in inclusion and not exclusion. God people like you make me sick...but that is okay because you have to pray for me anyway. 

and before you start with you comeback..know that once upon a time i was preparing to become a Jesuit in highschool and i stop and decided to study philosophy and world religions....so don't tell me i haven't done my homework.


----------



## oldshirt

DaveinOC said:


> I want to know from experienced men out there to share their emotion with these encounters. As someone who finds the thought of this is upsetting, it would be interesting to get perspectives of people who are ok with it.


My wife and I have been in the lifestyle for over 10 years. We have only had a few encounters over the last few years and while that door is still slightly cracked open, I mostly consider myself an armchair swinger now and for all practical purposes we are pretty much a traditional couple again now. 

For about half a dozen or more years were highly active in the lifestyle and have been to clubs and conventions and parties and such in a variety of states and we have been to lots of parties and had a variety of 3somes, 4somes and more-somes. 

We were a perfectly traditional, monogamous married couple with two young children for the first 10 years of our marriage and like almost all men, the thought of my wife cheating on me or falling in love with another man made the my hair stand on end and my skin crawl. 

At around our 10 year anniversary we began having "The Talk" and we talked about and researched it and discussed our interests, objectives and boundaries for about a year before we met our first couple. We did not have actual sex with that couple but had a same partner/same bed encounter with them where there was no physical contact between couples at all. 

We couldn't keep our hands off each other for the next several days and our faces hurt from the grins we had on our faces for days on end. 

That made us realize that we were ok stepping outside the traditional envelope and over time we started to incrementally make tiny baby steps into the lifestyle. We started going to clubs and parties and meeting new people and making tiny baby steps along the way. 

We spent several months doing what is called "Soft Swing" where there is contact between the couples but actual intercourse is only with your own partner. 

Eventually we met a couple that we liked a lot and felt very comfortable with and full swapped with them. 

That was the test by fire for me because that guy owned his own very successful company and was basically rich. He was ten years younger than me, taller, better looking and hung like a horse. I figured if my wife would fall in love with someone and leave me, he would probably be the one. 

His wife was very hot and sexy and I felt very comfortable with her (we had soft swapped with them a couple times before) and she and I hit it well and the 4 of us got it on on the same bed that night and it was AWESOME!

The next few days my wife and I were inseparable and could not keep from tearing into each other for days. Not only did she not fall for the younger, hotter, better hung guy, but we were having some of the best sex of our lives. 

In swinging it is called "Reclamation Sex" and it is some of the hottest and most passionate sex that a couple will have. On an evolutionary scale, it is probably something akin to the hysterical bonding that a WS/BS might have, only in swinging it was all fun and games and consensual to begin with. 

Anyway as far as my emotional state regarding my wife having sex with other men whilst I have sex with their wives. 

Trying to explain it to a monogamist is kind of like trying to explain colors to a blind person. It is just a completely different mentality and mindset and dynamic altogether. 

You are doing it as a couple and as a hobby that you have both discussed at length (or at least you *should have.* and it is another part of your marital sexual dynamic. Swinging is INTRAmarital sex. It is not Extramarital sex. It is part of your marital sexual dynamic, you are just inviting others into it as an adjunct to add a little extra pleasure and excitement. It's an adjunct like sex toys or XXX movies or lingerie or something like that would be. 

As to my personal state of mind, I am not a cuckold. I really do not get all that turned on seeing my wife with other men. I do enjoy seeing her being really sexual and I enjoy seeing her have fun and being excited, just as I enjoy seeing her laugh and have a good time watching a comedy or laughing and joking with friends or playing with the kids etc. But I do not derive any kind of intense or out of the ordinary arousal from seeing her with other men.

(side bar: she is actually more the voyeur and is more into watching me with other women. It's almost kind of like a "hot husband" or female **** if there is such a thing)

I'm kind of all about the women. I love women and love a wide variety of activities and combinations and permutations of women. My wife isn't a hardcore bisexual by any means but there have been some women that she was really into and that is a part of her sexuality that she had no clue about until she was knee deep in it. 

So really all I can say is that it is just simply a whole different mentality and frame of mind than what a traditional monogamist would be. Most people are not going to want to swing in any way, shape or form. Most people should *NOT* swing or even try to go there. 

But it works and works well for small percentage of people. 

Age and menopause and expanding waistlines and busy teenagers that have sports and activities all the frick'n time have pretty much brought our swinging days to an end. But for us it was great and a lot of fun and excitement. None of the disaster scenarios and none of the "what if?s" ever happened to us at all.

We have seen and personally known a number of couples that have had their marriages implode so I never try to imply that there is no risk. There IS risk. There are dangers and pitfalls in swinging. 

But just like there are risks to driving a car, there are ways to be aware of those risk and there are precautions to take and safety measures to reduce and mitigate those risks. 

We were highly active for many years and all total have probably been with over one hundred other couples and a number of singles and have probably been to clubs and parties and other venues hundreds of times and have not had any serious ramifications or problems or disasters. 

We also know couples that have been in the lifestyle for over 20 years that have never had a serious issue related to swinging. It can be done and it can work fine for some couples. 

Swinging does carry risk and it has it's pros and cons. Monogamy has it's risks and carries it's pros and cons.


----------



## NobodySpecial

sandcastle said:


> I know and I don't care just so long as you don't **** in my woodpile without my *permission*.
> 
> Swing away-
> I do draw the line at children and animals.
> 
> Other than that- have at it!


Communication, consent and awareness are the KEY to ethical non-monogamy. Someone doing something else sure as heck is not ethical. Philosophically, since animals and children cannot consent (and... Ew!), I am right there with you. How someone could inflict pain on someone else in the name of sex I will never understand.


----------



## sandcastle

NobodySpecial said:


> Communication, consent and awareness are the KEY to ethical non-monogamy. Someone doing something else sure as heck is not ethical. Philosophically, since animals and children cannot consent (and... Ew!), I am right there with you. How someone could inflict pain on someone else in the name of sex I will never understand.



You may then be surprised about what gets shoved down spouses throats - you need to make me happy and if you don't do this I'm gonna find someone that will and Im gonna divorce you and my FL attorney is gonna have a field day with you doing what you did.


Sad- but true.


----------



## NobodySpecial

sandcastle said:


> You may then be surprised about what gets shoved down spouses throats - you need to make me happy and if you don't do this I'm gonna find someone that will and Im gonna divorce you and my FL attorney is gonna have a field day with you doing what you did.
> 
> 
> Sad- but true.


Yah. Not much of a marriage. It is a real drag that the marital decision has so much money and other like considerations in it.


----------



## sandcastle

Dave!

Check out the dirty.com

Plenty of options and maybe your wife can make front page!


----------



## Married but Happy

> 72.1% [of swingers] are religiously-affiliated (compared with 61% of general US population)


https://askwonder.com/q/statistics-...style-swinger-market-57daf90faec4161a008a7d8f


As for swinging being un-Christian, there are plenty of Christians who disagree! Not all Christians think the same way, or accept the same interpretations of the Bible - which is probably why there are so many different sects.



> The Bible has been misquoted and mistranslated to falsely suppress sexuality. There is nothing inconsistent with biblical Christianity and open responsible relationships. In fact, such sincere relationships may be much more in line with Christ's teachings.


Responsible Nonmonogamy


Heck, there's even a website specifically for _Christian_ swingers!


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> <Shrug> We saw a documentary quite a few years ago which featured quite a few Christian swingers. I don't recall their rationale since I am not religious of any sort. I wonder how Jesus would view this? No idea. But there are Christian swingers out there, in any event.


Well God says that sex outside marriage is a sin so they are not following Him in that. Maybe they just ignore that part of the Bible? All sorts of people go to church but don't follow the teaching. Its not easy to go His way and not ours, but a swinger is going against one of the basic teachings, that adultery is a very serious sin. They are free to life that way, but then to claim they are following God is madness. 
Its like me claiming that I am a Christian murderer, or a Christian rapist, or Christian thief. A Christian adulterer is just as bad.


----------



## Diana7

Lostinthought61 said:


> Diana,
> 
> i do not want to turn this into a theological discourse on religion, but let's be clear all religions from the beginning of time are a concept of man, its a man concept, all the "holy" books were written by men for men to impose on everyone including women. so when you Christian perceptions and beliefs, these to have changed and adapted to meet the needs of the some head person. So what if swingers go to church who cares honestly who freaking cares...does it make you more "Holier" to exclude them from the church? This is exactly what the notion of religion does...it give power to people to exclude others. It has from the beginning of time, it excludes and it kills in the name of something. Isn't the point of religion in inclusion and not exclusion. God people like you make me sick...but that is okay because you have to pray for me anyway.
> 
> and before you start with you comeback..know that once upon a time i was preparing to become a Jesuit in highschool and i stop and decided to study philosophy and world religions....so don't tell me i haven't done my homework.


If you chose to follow Jesus Christ and love and trust Him, then you wouldn't then go against one of the basic teachings which is to be faithful to your spouse. 
Its not about being Holy, its about knowing that His ways are always the best, I have seen this proved time and time again. 
Even most non Christians agree that faithfulness is the right thing, most on this site as well.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> If you chose to follow Jesus Christ and love and trust Him, then you wouldn't then go against one of the basic teachings which is to be faithful to your spouse.
> Its not about being Holy, its about knowing that His ways are always the best, I have seen this proved time and time again.
> Even most non Christians agree that faithfulness is the right thing, most on this site as well.


It has been YEARS since I read the Bible. But I don't remember marriage being one of Jesus' basic teachings. Are you able to tell me where that is easily? Thanks.


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> https://askwonder.com/q/statistics-...style-swinger-market-57daf90faec4161a008a7d8f
> 
> 
> As for swinging being un-Christian, there are plenty of Christians who disagree! Not all Christians think the same way, or accept the same interpretations of the Bible - which is probably why there are so many different sects.
> 
> 
> 
> Responsible Nonmonogamy
> 
> 
> Heck, there's even a website specifically for _Christian_ swingers!


There are websites for all sort of wrong things. 
Must say that in 60 years of being around Christians of all sorts of denominations not one thought that adultery was ok. The Bible is very clear on the seriousness of adultery. Its not about interpretations of the bible, they all say that adultery is forbidden.


----------



## peacem

Diana7 said:


> If you chose to follow Jesus Christ and love and trust Him, then you wouldn't then go against one of the basic teachings which is to be faithful to your spouse.
> Its not about being Holy, its about knowing that His ways are always the best, I have seen this proved time and time again.
> Even most non Christians agree that faithfulness is the right thing, most on this site as well.


Is there a hierarchy of sinning? Because the last time I checked my local church was wall to wall sin. Its just that they seemed to pick and choose which ones to ignore and which ones to be particularly po faced about. 

I remember when supermarkets were allowed for the first time to open on a Sunday, you couldn't move for the moral panic in my church. Now I see Church people doing their shopping all the time on the sabbath, even that particularly obnoxious dude who told me I couldn't be a proper Christian because I bought petrol on a Sunday in order to get to work.

I think Christians would be best leaving the moralizing to the big guy and concentrate on living the best life _they_ possibly can.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> It has been YEARS since I read the Bible. But I don't remember marriage being one of Jesus' basic teachings. Are you able to tell me where that is easily? Thanks.


Here is just one verse about faithfulness in marriage. There are loads more.

Hebrews 13:4Living Bible (TLB)
4*Honor your marriage and its vows, and be pure; for God will surely punish all those who are immoral or commit adultery.


----------



## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> There are websites for all sort of wrong things.
> Must say that in 60 years of being around Christians of all sorts of denominations not one thought that adultery was ok. The Bible is very clear on the seriousness of adultery. Its not about interpretations of the bible, they all say that adultery is forbidden.


I don't disagree with your perspective. All I'm saying is that many people who say they are Christians have a different perspective and interpretation. Perhaps they're wrong - I'm not qualified to make that judgment, nor would I.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Christian swingers? LMFAO, no, not possible. They can call themselves anything they want, but according to the Christian religion (I'm not Christian but was at a time, and studied extensively on my own) sex with other people outside of marriage is a mortal sin, sex with other while married is Adultery (against 10 commandments) HUGE NO-NO.

Whether you want to swing or be a Christian is your business I really have no judgment on either lifestyle, but trying to re-write someone's religion to fit your hedonistic and secular lifestyle is pointless, they two can't co-exist without such reworking of a religion and mental gymnastics to leave nothing worthy of following anymore.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> Here is just one verse about faithfulness in marriage. There are loads more.
> 
> Hebrews 13:4Living Bible (TLB)
> 4*Honor your marriage and its vows, and be pure; for God will surely punish all those who are immoral or commit adultery.


Hebrews is Old Testament. The post which I quoted says it was one of Jesus' basic commands. As I recall, Jesus indicated that his law superseded that of previous Jewish law. So I am curious where Jesus lays this out. Thanks.


----------



## oldshirt

NobodySpecial said:


> It often strikes me odd that men understand the desire for the men to have sex with another woman... but that a woman might enjoy sex with another man, or another woman!, is somehow indicative of her lack of desire for her husband. That has never made sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Putting religious debate aside for a moment to get back to the original topic of how a man in the swinging lifestyle can deal with his wife being sexual with others - This point above is something I want to discuss a little further. 

I think the big difference that differentiates a male swinger from the common man is how he views female sexuality in general. 

I have come to believe that most men downright fear female sexuality. 

We all crave it and want it and we are on top of the world when we are the recipient of it. But losing it or having it be bestowed upon someone else is one of the most painful things we experience and is one of our darkest fears. 

There for men as a species has tried to suppress, deny, control and even eliminate female sexuality. Even today there are cultures that mutilate the genitalia of young girls to suppress their sexual desire and supposedly keep them from committing adultery. There are cultures that cover women in bed sheets from head to toe and not allow them educations or to even leave the house without a male relative as escort. In some cultures and countries it is even legal to publically execute an adulteress. This is all to keep them from having sex with other men.

But here is the kicker - they still have sex with other men (and women) in those cultures and countries. Even genital mutilation, confinement and execution does not stop women from having sex. 

That tells me that female sexuality is something that I as a mortal man am not going to be able to contain and control just because I want to be the soul recipient of it. 

How this relates to me entering into the world of swinging is one day I realized that I do not own or control my wife's sexuality. The best that I can hope for is that I am a good enough lover and a good enough partner that she will want to have sex with me and will choose me as her mate. Who we have with is a choice (or at least it should be)

I also recognize and accept that she is a sexual being and that she will have various sexual feelings and desires and attractions throughout the day just as I do. 

And I also realized that even as a traditional, monogamous couple, she could fall for someone at work or someone at the gym or someone in the neighborhood just as easily as she could in a swinger venue. 

I could either try to restrict her sexuality and in the process limit my own opportunities and adventures. Or I could accept and embrace her sexuality and together as a couple we could explore other options and other situations and scenarios. 

I wanted to experience 3somes and couple/couple sex and I wanted to experience group sex. 

I could either try to accomplish those things while keeping my wife at home barefoot and pregnant and cheat and possibly destroy my marriage and break up my home and family. 

....Or I could recognize and embrace her sexuality and we could do it together as a marriage couple and have that exploration and experience be a mutual part of our marital dynamic. 

We discussed it and researched it extensively for a long time and then started making incremental baby steps into that world and it worked for us. 

....continued in next post......


----------



## oldshirt

cont....

So what I am saying here is do not fear my wife's sexuality and I don't try to bottle it up in a tiny safe for which only I have the lock and key. 

I have my own boundaries for conditions I am willing to remain in the marriage and for what I am willing to accept and support. There are things that will cause me to say no or to veto and to draw a line in the sand. 

There are also things that will be unacceptable and will cause me to dissolve the marriage. 

Each couple will need to come up with their own set of boundaries and objectives as well as deal breakers. (more on this in another post) 

I embrace and encourage my wife's sexuality and I do what I can to be a good lover and a good husband and father and partner for her. Yes she has had sex with other men during out marriage. I enjoy seeing her being sexual and I enjoy seeing her enjoy herself and having fun, but the real payoff is we have had an amazing marital sex life which has spanned a quarter of century and during that time I have had a variety of sexual adventures that have included 3somes, 4somes, orgies and all sorts of other adventures with dozens and dozens and dozens of amazing, sexy women. 

The stakes were high, the risks were real and it took a lot of deep communication and honesty. But the payoff was immense. I not only had amazing sexlife with a slender, beautiful, ultra-sexy wife and had a stable and happy marriage and home life with 2 great kids - But I also had a sex life that included multiple dozens of other beautiful and sexy women that rock stars and porn stars would envy. 

And I did this through accepting and embracing my wife's sexuality and by not trying to restrict it. 

It was bringing the 'alpha' and the 'beta' into balance and harmony. 

Most men fear women's sexuality and fear how much it can hurt them and so they try to contain it as much as possible and try to restrict it. 

Many male swingers (at least the successful ones) embrace it and support it and don't let their fears stop them from pursuing what they want to do. 

IMHO that is what separates the swinging man from the common man.


----------



## DaveinOC

Hi Oldshirt, I appreciate your point of view. very well written and interesting.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

peacem said:


> Is there a hierarchy of sinning?


Yes. According to the man upstairs himself, there are mortal sins. Adultery is one of them.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> cont....
> 
> .
> 
> Each couple will need to come up with their own set of boundaries and objectives as well as deal breakers. (more on this in another post)


To expand on this a little more, what I view as marriage in general is what each couple comes up with in terms of their own goals, boundaries, deal breakers, what is and what is not acceptable etc. 

Marriage is a legal contract that determines legal rights and property rights and what legally protects the care of the children. 

But what an individual couple comes up with in terms of their own relationship is up to them to discuss and negotiate and come to agreement. 

Most couples are going to agree to be monogamous and sexually exclusive because that is what most people are familiar with and are comfortable with. 

Most people will want their partner to only be with them and they want their partner's exclusivity bad enough that they are willing to sacrifice their own desires for other people to obtain it. 

(and then if they step out of the marriage while keeping their partner's at home unaware, that is what adultery is and all of it's pain and destruction)

What separates the swinging couple or the poly couple is where they draw their lines and where their boundaries lay. 

Where the religious organizations come in is each church and religion is going to have a framework under which they will bless a marriage. 

I doubt if there is a passage in the New Testament that says that a couple can not mutually agree to swing. 

It will say not to cheat or to lie or to disrespect or abandon their partner. But I challenge anyone to come up with a passage of the New Testament that says that a couple that mutually chooses and mutually agrees to swing together as a couple will burn in hell and that they must remain sexually exclusive even if they do not want to as a married couple. 

To me the sexuality of a marriage is between the two partners to decide how they conduct themselves and it is not something that is imposed by others. 

ALL couples must determine their boundaries and what is and is not acceptable to them. Most couples are going to simply say not to have sex with other people and leave it at that. 

Swinging couples simply have more and deeper conversations about it and devise a more complex plan that has a little wider scope of practice.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> cont....
> 
> So what I am saying here is do not fear my wife's sexuality and I don't try to bottle it up in a tiny safe for which only I have the lock and key.
> 
> I have my own boundaries for conditions I am willing to remain in the marriage and for what I am willing to accept and support. There are things that will cause me to say no or to veto and to draw a line in the sand.
> 
> There are also things that will be unacceptable and will cause me to dissolve the marriage.
> .


Now to be frank and honest, it's not that I actually lack fear or insecurity and I can't say that I am never jealous or envious. 

I have the same fears and insecurities and such as everyone else. I just choose not to allow those fears keep me from pursuing what I want or doing what I think is best. 

I try not to base my decisions on fear and insecurity alone. 

Trust me, when we were having our first conversations about this and when clothes started coming off with other people in the room, there was fear and uncertainty and insecurity. 

But the excitement and anticipation and the desire for that level of adventure and excitement was greater and I wasn't going to let my fears and insecurities spell the difference between experiencing it and not experiencing it.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> I have come to believe that most men downright fear female sexuality.


I will be nice even though I find your post could be seen as insulting, or at least ironic. This is pretty common of people in alternative lifestyles by the way. We don't do what you do because we are just not as evolved or enlightened as you. Considering how you think of yourselves as such free thinkers it's interesting how condescending you guys seem to be all the time when people don't see it the way you do. 

Let me just say you don't understand me, my wife or people like me at all. 

I covet my wife's sexuality. I am not at all afraid of it, she is free to go out and do what she wants but if that means being with other men then she won't do that with me. Fortunately to this point she feels the same way. I respect my wife and women enough to have expectations of her, trust in her agency and individuality and will move on if they have different ones than me. Just like anyone else in any relationships I have in my life I have clear expectations. I have no fear that she will go to someone else. If she does I will just move on. Will it be painful sure, but I ain't changing the reasonable expectations that we both agreed on because I may have to suffer some pain. So who is really operating out of fear here anyway? It ain't me. 

Being monogamous may be a sacrifice for us, I say may, but it is one wholly worth making and is much more valuable to our lives then some new sex. I turned down sex when I was a single guy. I wanted it to be special. My default has never been **** a bunch of women. There are many guys like me. So I don't see it as missing out at all. 

You posts seems to imply that all women want to **** a bunch of men, like this is their default sexuality. Men who want monogamy are holding them back. Thankfully this is just not true.


----------



## TX-SC

sokillme said:


> I will be nice even though I could find your post could be seen as insulting, or at least ironic. This is pretty common of people in alternative lifestyles by the way. We don't do what you do because we are just not as evolved or enlightened as you. Considering how you think of yourselves as such free thinkers it's interesting how condescending you guys seem to be all the time when people don't see it the way you do.
> 
> Let me just say you don't understand me, my wife or people like me at all.
> 
> I covet my wife's sexuality. I am not at all afraid of it, she is free to go out and do what she wants but if that means being with other men then she won't do that with me. Fortunately to this point she feels the same way. I respect my wife and women enough to have expectations of her, trust in her agency and individuality and will move on if they have different ones than me. Just like anyone else in any relationships I have in my life I have clear expectations. I have no fear that she will go to someone else. If she does I will just move on. Will it be painful sure, but I ain't changing the reasonable expectations that we both agreed on because I may have to suffer some pain. So who is really operating out of fear here anyway? It ain't me.
> 
> Being monogamous may be a sacrifice for us, I say may, but it is one wholly worth making and is much more valuable to our lives then some new sex. I turned down sex when I was a single guy. I wanted it to be special. My default has never been **** a bunch of women. There are many guys like me. So I don't see it as missing out at all.
> 
> You posts seems to imply that all women want to **** a bunch of men, like this is their default sexuality. Men who want monogamy are holding them back. Thankfully this is just not true.


Agreed, I have dated some VERY jealous women who would threaten to cut your penis and balls off if you looked at another woman. It's not just us Neanderthal men and our poor, intimidated, scared, unsophisticated selves who get jealous. I am certainly not "afraid of" or intimidated by female sexuality. It's the same old, tired argument people in open and swinger lifestyles make quite often. My wife and I are both monogamous. That is OUR sexuality.

I really don't care about the religious argument. From just a relationship perspective, I can't see how sharing your wife sexually with other men or women equates to love? I can see how it would be a turn-on for people who are just looking for side action. Your wife becomes your FWB in essence. She's a steady partner to hit up when your other action plays out. In one of the previous posts, the poster mentions that once they started gaining wait after kids they stopped swinging. Why? Good enough for you/her but not for others? That's so sad... 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## oldshirt

We may have some differing views but I think we also are similar in many ways as well. 

As I said above, swinging does have some completely different mindsets and perspectives than strict monogamy (obviously ) but often times it is more a matter of viewing the same thing from a different perspective rather than being from a completely different mold. 

I will address a few of your points more specifically in bold below. 




sokillme said:


> I will be nice even though I could find your post could be seen as insulting, or at least ironic. This is pretty common of people in alternative lifestyles by the way. We don't do what you do because we are just not as evolved or enlightened as you. Considering how you think of yourselves as such free thinkers it's interesting how condescending you guys seem to be all the time when people don't see it the way you do.
> 
> *If I have come off as insulting or condescending, then I have failed to communicate my point effectively for I intend no insult or to be condescending. It is a belief of mine that many people (and entire cultures and societies for that matter) fear female sexuality. I say that not as insult or condescention for I too have my own fears and insecurities. It's not a leap at all for me to say that men fear female sexuality for I have my own fears. I'm not judging that or pointing fingers, I am merely accepting it and recognizing it and saying it plays a lot of roles in monogamy vs nonmogomy.*
> 
> 
> 
> Let me just say you don't understand me, my wife or people like me at all.
> 
> * I will have to correct you on this point. I was married for 10 years and had 2 children in a completely traditional, monogamous marriage before the topic of swinging even came up. In fact my wife didn't even know that it was a thing and was afraid that it was illegal and that we could go to jail. That's how mainstream we were for the first decade of our marriage.
> 
> Additionally we have effectively been out of the lifestyle and have moreless been a traditional couple again for the last several years. We have had a few encounters pop up over the last few years as some old friends made us a good offer on a day that worked out, but otherwise we have again been pretty much a regular, traditional couple the last several years. Out of our 22 year marriage, we have been traditional for roughly 15 of those years, so I do believe I have a good working knowledge of both ends of the spectrum. *
> 
> I covet my wife's sexuality. I am not at all afraid of it, she is free to go out and do what she wants but if that means being with other men then she won't do that with me. Fortunately to this point she feels the same way.
> 
> *Really, I think this is about the only place we actually differ. I feel the same way and there are certain things that would be deal breakers. The difference is there are a few avenues under which I would be ok with her having sex with other men. (basically if it was mutually agreed on and I was with the OM's partner) *
> 
> 
> 
> I respect my wife and women enough to have expectations of her, trust in her agency and individuality and will move on if they have different ones than me. Just like anyone else in any relationships I have in my life I have clear expectations. I have no fear that she will go to someone else. If she does I will just move on. Will it be painful sure, but I ain't changing the reasonable expectations that we both agreed on because I may have to suffer some pain. So who is really operating out of fear here anyway? It ain't me.
> 
> 
> *That really is the same as me. The only difference is where the line is drawn. Your line is pretty much, "no sex with any others or I am gone." My line is, "other than these predetermined guidelines, no sex with others or I am gone." It's just a difference in boundaries. *
> 
> Being monogamous may be a sacrifice for us, I say may, but it is one wholly worth making and is much more valuable to our lives then some new sex. I turned down sex when I was a single guy. I wanted it to be special. My default has never been **** a bunch of women. There are many guys like me. So I don't see it as missing out at all.
> 
> *And that used to me exactly as well. I was very willing to be exclusive in order to have that one "special" relationship with someone who was exclusive to me. We did that. We had a ten year, traditional marriage. We had a home and raised two babies in it. Then as a couple we had a series of deep discussions and agreed that we would explore nonmonogamy together as a couple. I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't like being with multiple dozens of sexy women, I loved it. But it in no way made our relationship any less "special" and in some ways perhaps made it even more special in that it was something where we each allowed each other to enjoy the benefits of variety and novelty of other people as well as enjoy the adventures of groups sex and other things that you simply can't do with only one other person. *
> 
> You posts seems to imply that all women want to **** a bunch of men, like this is their default sexuality.
> 
> *I don't believe I have implied that per se at all. I am merely recognizing that female sexuality is a big, complex and powerful thing. I'm not saying that all women want to #### a bunch of men. But I am saying that their sexual capacity and desires expand beyond that which is normally thought of as traditional. I'm not making any kind of judgement here, but to think that a woman's desire is limited only to her husband is simply naïve, unrealistic and inaccurate. *
> 
> 
> Men who want monogamy are holding them back.
> 
> *Again, I am just reflecting on what goes on in the world. When women are publically executed for adultery, when little girls have their genitals mutilated so that they cannot experience pleasure and when women are covered from head to toe and essentially held hostage in their own homes and not allowed education or employment or free will so that they do not have sex - that is holding them back. Now granted those are extreme examples that take place in nonwestern cultures, but my point remains. *
> 
> 
> Thankfully this is just not true.
> 
> /I][/B][For most normal, healthy guys in healthy relationships is the western world, it's not that big of a deal and not problematic and to be honest, many woman want their men to be at least somewhat protective and vigilant (mate guarding) as it shows they have value to their men and that their men care.
> 
> However It is true in certain places and cultures and it is also true with certain individuals. I personally know guys that go out to the car and check the odometer before she goes to the grocery store and then interrogates the living daylights out of her if there is an extra mile on it. It's real.
> 
> My point is that for many if not the vast majority of men, one of their deepest and darkest fears is their partner cheating on them or outright abandoning them for someone else. We all have it to one degree or another and we all have our own ways of dealing with it one way or another.
> 
> I am not saying I don't have fear and I am not maligning or judging other men's fear. I simply said that I tried to not let fear dictate my decisions or keep me from doing what I wanted to do.
> 
> It sounds to me like you pretty much do the same thing, it's just you have a different boundary of what you will and what you will not accept. [/I][/B]


----------



## marriageontherocks2

oldshirt said:


> Now to be frank and honest, it's not that I actually lack fear or insecurity
> 
> I have the same fears and insecurities and such as everyone else..
> 
> I embrace and encourage my wife's sexuality...Yes she has had sex with other men during out marriage. I enjoy seeing her being sexual and I enjoy seeing her enjoy herself and having fun, .
> 
> Most men fear women's sexuality and fear how much it can hurt them and so they try to contain it as much as possible and try to restrict it.
> .


I think men that become cuckolds and allow some dude to rail their wife exemplify fear and insecurity. And I think they are the ones terrified of women's sexuality. So much so that they freely allow other men to take care of it for him, in hopes that she'll stay with him in spite of his inability to please her sexually.

Your claim that people that are monogamous fear women's sexuality is pure projection on your part IMO.


----------



## oldshirt

A few responses in bold below. 




TX-SC said:


> Agreed, I have dated some VERY jealous women who would threaten to cut your penis and balls off if you looked at another woman.
> 
> * Just a side-note, If a man threatened a woman to sexually mutilate her for looking at another man, he would be accused of being abusive and dangerous and she would be given pamphlets to hotlines and abuse shelters.
> 
> Why do we accept that behavior from a woman?*
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see how sharing your wife sexually with other men or women equates to love? I can see how it would be a turn-on for people who are just looking for side action. Your wife becomes your FWB in essence. She's a steady partner to hit up when your other action plays out. In one of the previous posts, the poster mentions that once they started gaining wait after kids they stopped swinging. Why? Good enough for you/her but not for others? That's so sad...
> 
> *My wife is definitely not my FWB. She is the only woman I have ever wanted to marry and have a home and family with. she is the mother of my children and one that makes my house a home. She held my mother's hand with tears in her eyes while my mother laid dying on her deathbed. I too have shuttled her parents to doctor's appointments and spent my weekends helping them with things that they need. I take care of her while she is sick and go out into the night to get her medicine and she does the same for me. I would go into a burning building to save her and jump in front of a bullet for her and she would for me as well. She is my wife, my best friend, my confidant, my lover, the mother of my children and the only woman I have ever got down on one knee and proposed a marriage and a life together with.
> 
> Our playmates were my FWBs. The other women got some fun and orgasms off of me and then they went home. My wife has gotten ALL of me, my heart and soul, and our home is our home and family.
> 
> Yes, we are no longer active swingers. For everything there is a season. We had our season of swinging and it was awesome :-D I do miss it. It was fun. But nothing lasts forever, life goes on.
> 
> Yes, I have put on some weight and added a few wrinkles. I am 53 years old now. I still have a fire in my boiler room, but I am also getting lazier and less inclined to go out partying it up until the wee hours of the night chasing tail. Menopause has also taken a big toll on my wife's libido and she no longer has much interest in pursuing the lifestyle these days.
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## NobodySpecial

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I think men that become cuckolds and allow some dude to rail their wife exemplify fear and insecurity.


I don't! (I know at least 2.) Leaving off that cuckold is a word that is intended to be derogatory, believe it or not, some men just love seeing their wife in rapture whoever is giving it. It is called compersion. 



> And I think they are the ones terrified of women's sexuality. So much so that they freely allow other men to take care of it for him, in hopes that she'll stay with him in spite of his inability to please her sexually.
> 
> Your claim that people that are monogamous fear women's sexuality is pure projection on your part IMO.


The world is full of people. Some men ARE afraid of women's sexuality. Personally, I see no link to choosing monogamy in that reality. Many, many monogamous men are, of course, not afraid of women's sexuality.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't! (I know at least 2.) Leaving off that cuckold is a word that is intended to be derogatory, believe it or not, some men just love seeing their wife in rapture whoever is giving it. It is called compersion. .


I would wager in the cuckolds world confident and self assured lovers are the exception not the rule, I would bet most cuckolds are extremely insecure and terrified of their woman's sexuality. They know they're not doing it for her and her sexuality is extremely important. So they acquiesce and allow another man to take care of it and ensure she's pleased. It warps them and they get off on the humiliation of it.


----------



## oldshirt

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I think men that become cuckolds and allow some dude to rail their wife exemplify fear and insecurity. And I think they are the ones terrified of women's sexuality. So much so that they freely allow other men to take care of it for him, in hopes that she'll stay with him in spite of his inability to please her sexually.
> 
> Your claim that people that are monogamous fear women's sexuality is pure projection on your part IMO.


My experience was in the swinging lifestyle. Cuckolding is a whole other realm and one for which I have no experience, interest in or any real understanding of. 

It's something all together different. You'd have to ask them what it's all about.
They may have something completely different to say about it. 

The OP posed the question to men in the swinging lifestyle to share their thoughts and perspectives and that is what I have done. 

I realize that most men do not share my thoughts or opinions ( duh' otherwise we'd all be swingers LOL)


----------



## Lawrence79

We don't swing anymore. We do something much more abhorrent to this board, polyamory. (Yes, believe it or not, not everyone believes love has to be exclusive to be really meaningful...) So off I go to hear about how awful we are. 

Cheers.[/QUOTE]



ok. . . HUGE question or thought that I could really use your answer on. I remember you taking part in my thread the other week and your perspective could help me. for the last 2 yrs i had read up all on Poly. in concept I really truly believed it. the theory made total sense to me. My girfriend was completely against it. but over the span of two years I talked about it many times. probably 30 times in two years which eventually got into my girfriends head to a small degree. 

When she went off to school in SF for 10 weeks, we. . .weren't 110% sure where we stood in our relationship. and long story she loves me to pieces but took refuge in another person while she was there. Of course she did it completely wrong as she ended up hiding in from me for 3 weeks then coming clean, which is NOT open, NOT transparent and NOT communicating, all pillars of the functionality of that style of relationship. But, in a twisted way, she almost felt like she was pleasing me as this was something I had suggested many times although we never said we would actually do it. So, although I contributed to the damn thoughts in her head, she would have never done what she did if I hadn't done so I don't believe.

When I got wind of things going awry, I lost it. this experience has completely destroyed me and now we are both all f*cked up from it. She is all confused, high emotions, wants to come back to me, it's all just a mess. Even though I was the one pushing it almost, I know now there is no way I could ever ever ever go through something like this again. My perspective has radically changed.

I am not even sure what I am asking. 

I applaud your ability to do this, no judgement at all. But man. . . what a traumatic experience it has been for us.


----------



## oldshirt

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I would wager in the cuckolds world confident and self assured lovers are the exception not the rule, I would bet most cuckolds are extremely insecure and terrified of their woman's sexuality. They know they're not doing it for her and her sexuality is extremely important. So they acquiesce and allow another man to take care of it and ensure she's pleased. It warps them and they get off on the humiliation of it.


people have been calling me out thinking that I was saying monogamous men fear female sexuality (which isn't really what I meant. I was just recognizing it exists) and now I have to call you out for assuming you know what is going on in the mind of cucks. 

People make assumptions on alternative lifestyles based on what they see in porn. I think I heard somewhere that porn is not a realist portrayal of human sexuality. 

The cuckold clips you see on youporn and the other porn sites are fantasy portrayals just like WWE Wresting is a fantasy portrayal of fist fights. A real street fight looks a whole lot different than WWE. 

I'm going to shift gears a little bit and talk about dominatrixes and sex dungeons for a moment to make a point. Many dominatrixes report that most of their clients that come to the sex dungeons to be dominated and humiliated and be lead around on all fours by a dog collar and made to lick their boots, are powerful, high-level corporate executives and politicians and titans in business and police chiefs and other powerful, dominate men in normal life. 

People have various kinks and quirks and fetishes ect behind bedroom doors that are quite different than what they are in normal life. 

That **** that you think is weak and lacking in confidence and sexual prowess and strength, may be a 460lb NFL linebacker than can tear a man in two and fill a whole room full of women waiting their turn for his schlong. 

He may be all that and a bag of chips, but he has a kink that he likes to watch his partner screw other dudes and have his partner and the other dude dominate and humiliate him while they do it. It's a kink. 

He may in fact be the best lover she has ever had but what you don't see in the youporn clip is that after the body builder has got done after pumping her for 10 minutes, the **** tears into her using every style and technique in the book for hours until she is exhausted and begging for mercy. 

(and what you may also not see is that bodybuilder "bull" goes home and gets his backdoor pounded by his boyfriend, but that is a whole other thread LOL)

My point is people have kinks and fetishes and weird quirky things that turn them on that really have no bearing on what they are like as a person or a spouse. And their quirks and fetishes don't really define their personality or whether they are strong and confident and stand up for themselves or whether they are weak and a doormat.


----------



## oldshirt

Lawrence79 said:


> We don't swing anymore. We do something much more abhorrent to this board, polyamory. (Yes, believe it or not, not everyone believes love has to be exclusive to be really meaningful...) So off I go to hear about how awful we are.
> 
> Cheers.




ok. . . HUGE question or thought that I could really use your answer on. I remember you taking part in my thread the other week and your perspective could help me. for the last 2 yrs i had read up all on Poly. in concept I really truly believed it. the theory made total sense to me. My girfriend was completely against it. but over the span of two years I talked about it many times. probably 30 times in two years which eventually got into my girfriends head to a small degree. 

When she went off to school in SF for 10 weeks, we. . .weren't 110% sure where we stood in our relationship. and long story she loves me to pieces but took refuge in another person while she was there. Of course she did it completely wrong as she ended up hiding in from me for 3 weeks then coming clean, which is NOT open, NOT transparent and NOT communicating, all pillars of the functionality of that style of relationship. But, in a twisted way, she almost felt like she was pleasing me as this was something I had suggested many times although we never said we would actually do it. So, although I contributed to the damn thoughts in her head, she would have never done what she did if I hadn't done so I don't believe.

When I got wind of things going awry, I lost it. this experience has completely destroyed me and now we are both all f*cked up from it. She is all confused, high emotions, wants to come back to me, it's all just a mess. Even though I was the one pushing it almost, I know now there is no way I could ever ever ever go through something like this again. My perspective has radically changed.

I am not even sure what I am asking. 

I applaud your ability to do this, no judgement at all. But man. . . what a traumatic experience it has been for us.[/QUOTE]


I am not poly and I am not the person you were posing this to, but IMHO this is simply a garden variety case of cheating and she is using your poly talk as an attempt to obtain a "get-out-of-jail-free" card. 

You should post this in the infidelity section as this isn't really about swinging. You would get a lot more replies and advice for this situation there.


----------



## NobodySpecial

oldshirt said:


> My experience was in the swinging lifestyle. Cuckolding is a whole other realm and one for which I have no experience, interest in or any real understanding of.


Oh. I thought, by definition, it was just a man who watched his wife with another man. I don't know what it means then.


----------



## NobodySpecial

oldshirt said:


> ok. . . HUGE question or thought that I could really use your answer on. I remember you taking part in my thread the other week and your perspective could help me. for the last 2 yrs i had read up all on Poly. in concept I really truly believed it. the theory made total sense to me. My girfriend was completely against it. but over the span of two years I talked about it many times. probably 30 times in two years which eventually got into my girfriends head to a small degree.
> 
> When she went off to school in SF for 10 weeks, we. . .weren't 110% sure where we stood in our relationship. and long story she loves me to pieces but took refuge in another person while she was there. Of course she did it completely wrong as she ended up hiding in from me for 3 weeks then coming clean, *which is NOT open, NOT transparent and NOT communicating*, all pillars of the functionality of that style of relationship. But, in a twisted way, she almost felt like she was pleasing me as this was something I had suggested many times although we never said we would actually do it. So, although I contributed to the damn thoughts in her head, she would have never done what she did if I hadn't done so I don't believe.
> 
> When I got wind of things going awry, I lost it. this experience has completely destroyed me and now we are both all f*cked up from it. She is all confused, high emotions, wants to come back to me, it's all just a mess. Even though I was the one pushing it almost, I know now there is no way I could ever ever ever go through something like this again. My perspective has radically changed.
> 
> I am not even sure what I am asking.
> 
> I applaud your ability to do this, no judgement at all. But man. . . what a traumatic experience it has been for us.


That would f me up too. That does not sound like what you were "pushing". And, if indeed you were "pushing", that is not really any good either. If you don't choose to engage in any kind of ethical non-monogamy again, sure that's your choice. But as a representation if it, that ain't it. Good luck to you, mate.


----------



## NobodySpecial

oldshirt said:


> people have been calling me out thinking that I was saying monogamous men fear female sexuality (which isn't really what I meant. I was just recognizing it exists) and now I have to call you out for assuming you know what is going on in the mind of cucks.


Ayuh.



> People make assumptions on alternative lifestyles based on what they see in porn. I think I heard somewhere that porn is not a realist portrayal of human sexuality.


LOL! You heard it somewhere?? Have you watched it? Have you had sex? End of story. I wonder what would happen if someone tried to get into a woman's behind dry in the real world??


> The cuckold clips you see on youporn and the other porn sites are fantasy portrayals just like WWE Wresting is a fantasy portrayal of fist fights. A real street fight looks a whole lot different than WWE.
> 
> I'm going to shift gears a little bit and talk about dominatrixes and sex dungeons for a moment to make a point. Many dominatrixes report that most of their clients that come to the sex dungeons to be dominated and humiliated and be lead around on all fours by a dog collar and made to lick their boots, are powerful, high-level corporate executives and politicians and titans in business and police chiefs and other powerful, dominate men in normal life.
> 
> People have various kinks and quirks and fetishes ect behind bedroom doors that are quite different than what they are in normal life.
> 
> That **** that you think is weak and lacking in confidence and sexual prowess and strength, may be a 460lb NFL linebacker than can tear a man in two and fill a whole room full of women waiting their turn for his schlong.
> 
> He may be all that and a bag of chips, but he has a kink that he likes to watch his partner screw other dudes and have his partner and the other dude dominate and humiliate him while they do it. It's a kink.
> 
> He may in fact be the best lover she has ever had but what you don't see in the youporn clip is that after the body builder has got done after pumping her for 10 minutes, the **** tears into her using every style and technique in the book for hours until she is exhausted and begging for mercy.
> 
> (and what you may also not see is that bodybuilder "bull" goes home and gets his backdoor pounded by his boyfriend, but that is a whole other thread LOL)
> 
> My point is people have kinks and fetishes and weird quirky things that turn them on that really have no bearing on what they are like as a person or a spouse. And their quirks and fetishes don't really define their personality or whether they are strong and confident and stand up for themselves or whether they are weak and a doormat.


Ayuh.


----------



## oldshirt

NobodySpecial said:


> That would f me up too. That does not sound like what you were "pushing". And, if indeed you were "pushing", that is not really any good either. If you don't choose to engage in any kind of ethical non-monogamy again, sure that's your choice. But as a representation if it, that ain't it. Good luck to you, mate.


I completely agree with what you said but I am not sure why that shows that you quoted me. I did not make that post that you quoted.


----------



## NobodySpecial

oldshirt said:


> I completely agree with what you said but I am not sure why that shows that you quoted me. I did not make that post that you quoted.


Quote fail somewhere along the line. Want me to trace it back? It wasn't me!


----------



## oldshirt

NobodySpecial said:


> Oh. I thought, by definition, it was just a man who watched his wife with another man. I don't know what it means then.


Everyone is going to split the hairs how they want and have their own definitions but I'll take a stab at it for how I see it. 

Here is Oldshirt dictionary classification of swinging vs cuckolding. 

Swinging - established couples getting together with other couples for mutual sexual encounters. Often with each person having sexual contact with the opposite sex member of the other couple, and very frequently including sexual contact between the two women. An activity that couples partake in together as a couple. 

Cuckold - as you stated earlier, an often derogatory term used to describe an activity or a man, where the female half of a couple has sex with another man in front of her male partner. There is often an assumption that the other man "The bull" is stronger, more attractive, more virile and better able to sexually please the woman. Frequently both the female and the bull humiliate the **** by saying how much better the bull is than he. There is often also an assumption that the **** derives some kind of perverse arousal in being humiliated and shown up as a lover. 

That is my definition of swinger vs cuckold.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> We may have some differing views but I think we also are similar in many ways as well.
> 
> As I said above, swinging does have some completely different mindsets and perspectives than strict monogamy (obviously ) but often times it is more a matter of viewing the same thing from a different perspective rather than being from a completely different mold.
> 
> I will address a few of your points more specifically in bold below.


No offense dude but we are not the same. Having sex with a bunch of women who are not my wife really holds no appeal to me. I know that physically it probably would be pleasurable but pleasure is rarely a primary motive in my life. There are so many other things that are more important. 

Say I had been born as Mike Jaguar or a guy who could have a beautiful women to be with every night. I would have probably tried to marry Raquel Welch or Linda Carter or someone like that and then have wanted to have a faithful relationship. I am monogamous, the thought of swinging is gross to me. Sex is a deeply emotional and deeply intimate experience. I don't and don't want to see it any other way. I want ONE person to share that with. 

I covet my wife's sexuality not because I am afraid of the pain of her being with someone else but because once you start introducing other men for her and women for me into the equation you lose that specializes or uniqueness that is important to me and I think to her. I don't want to be one of many, I don't want her to be one of many. I want to be one with her only her. 

Say we didn't make it. I would be looking for another women to be one with in the same way.


----------



## WildMustang

I have no experience in the swinging lifestyle, but I have come to find out it is becoming more and more popular. Or perhaps it has always been popular, but it has just now gained enough acceptance to be discussed more openly. 

I have discovered that couples I have known for decades are into the lifestyle. How did I find out? They approached my XH and me while we were married - usually the wife approached me and/or the husband approached my then husband.

The ones who approached us/me are very attractive people, have nice families, great kids, successful professional careers, well known in the community, are fun, intelligent, respectful, thoughtful, and seem to have their **** together in all areas of their lives. I would never in a million years have guessed they were swingers (perhaps that is due to my own ignorance about the lifestyle). 

Since my divorce 2.5 years ago, I have also been approached a few times to join married couples. 

Recently just this summer while playing volleyball on the beach, I took a break to get hydrated and a guy approached me and asked me to join his wife and him. I have casually known this couple for about 5 years as they own a beach condo in the same building as mine so I often see them and talk to them at Home Owner Association Meetings when I make it down to the beach for a few months. I have also thrown the frisbee on the beach with them a few times over the years, but other than small talk, I don't really know them well at all. Again, they seem like great people and they probably are. I would never guess them to be swingers.

I am amazed and also a little shocked (and yes, a little flattered, too) at how frequently I am approached and I wonder if I am giving off a sexual vibe that swingers pick up on that they perceive or interpret as my being open to swinging???


----------



## sokillme

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't! (I know at least 2.) Leaving off that cuckold is a word that is intended to be derogatory, believe it or not, some men just love seeing their wife in rapture whoever is giving it. It is called compersion.


Modern tech can do that better then any man anyway. You can control it on your phone, and you don't have to watch another guy with your wife. I get that but you don't need another guy to do that. 

I think it is either pimping your wife. Meaning these guys get off on the power of controlling their wife's sexuality. You can't have much more control over a person then to get them to sleep with someone when their natural matting instinct (at least at first), not to mention everyone in society is tell them not to. Almost all of the time at least at first the wives don't want to and only do it for their husbands. Listen to Snoop Dog talk about pimping. It's why they have the wives take pictures of the events. The pictures are trophies, it's why a lot of these guys post pictures of their wives exploits behind their wives back. Again they get off on the control and the ability to demonstrate the control they have over them. They want to be their wife's pimp.

The other is some guys having your sexuality shaped by watching women have sex instead of having sex with women. I think a lot of these men grew up on porn and their primary sexuality is not intercourse but jacking off to people having intercourse. It's almost another sexuality entirely. Besides that Intercourse takes risk and work.


----------



## oldshirt

WildMustang said:


> I have no experience in the swinging lifestyle, but I have come to find out it is becoming more and more popular. Or perhaps it has always been popular, but it has just now gained enough acceptance to be discussed more openly.
> 
> I have discovered that couples I have known for decades are into the lifestyle. How did I find out? They approached my XH and me while we were married - usually the wife approached me and/or the husband approached my then husband.
> 
> The ones who approached us/me are very attractive people, have nice families, great kids, successful professional careers, well known in the community, are fun, intelligent, respectful, thoughtful, and seem to have their **** together in all areas of their lives. I would never in a million years have guessed they were swingers (perhaps that is due to my own ignorance about the lifestyle).
> 
> Since my divorce 2.5 years ago, I have also been approached a few times to join married couples.
> 
> Recently just this summer while playing volleyball on the beach, I took a break to get hydrated and a guy approached me and asked me to join his wife and him. I have casually known this couple for about 5 years as they own a beach condo in the same building as mine so I often see them and talk to them at Home Owner Association Meetings when I make it down to the beach for a few months. I have also thrown the frisbee on the beach with them a few times over the years, but other than small talk, I don't really know them well at all. Again, they seem like great people and they probably are. I would never guess them to be swingers.
> 
> I am amazed and also a little shocked (and yes, a little flattered, too) at how frequently I am approached and I wonder if I am giving off a sexual vibe that swingers pick up on that they perceive or interpret as my being open to swinging???


What's funny is we have been approached by a couple sets of vanilla friends. 

If they some how knew we were swingers, they never let on that they knew or suspected it. 

And we never expected to be propositioned by them either.

But one of the things we did learn once we began is that the swinging world is a lot bigger than we would have ever imagined and that you cannot tell who is or who isn't unless someone makes you an offer or comes right out and tells you they are.

There is no secret handshake or decoder rings or anything. I wish there was!!! 

We also went to clubs in our area quite a bit and on a couple of occasions we did run into coworkers and one time even our kid's in-home day care provider from when the kids were younger.

It was a little unnerving for the first moment or two and then we just gave a naughty little wink and assured them we would keep their secret safe if they do the same. 

It was no biggee.


----------



## WildMustang

oldshirt said:


> What's funny is we have been approached by a couple sets of vanilla friends.
> 
> If they some how knew we were swingers, they never let on that they knew or suspected it.
> 
> And we never expected to be propositioned by them either.
> 
> But one of the things we did learn once we began is that the swinging world is a lot bigger than we would have ever imagined and that you cannot tell who is or who isn't unless someone makes you an offer or comes right out and tells you they are.
> 
> There is no secret handshake or decoder rings or anything. I wish there was!!!
> 
> We also went to clubs in our area quite a bit and on a couple of occasions we did run into coworkers and one time even our kid's in-home day care provider from when the kids were younger.
> 
> It was a little unnerving for the first moment or two and then we just gave a naughty little wink and assured them we would keep their secret safe if they do the same.
> 
> It was no biggee.




Is there some sort of sexual vibe that people give off, that make swingers perceive someone they approach or invite, is perhaps open to the lifestyle or experimentation with it???

What characteristics do you notice in a person or what is it about how they move through the world, that makes a swinger think, "I think I will approach that woman and ask her to join us"???

Not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to figure out why I am approached and invited so often. I am wondering if it has something to do with me.


----------



## oldshirt

WildMustang said:


> Is there some sort of sexual vibe that people give off, that make swingers perceive someone they approach or invite, is perhaps open to the lifestyle or experimentation with it???
> 
> What characteristics do you notice in a person or what is it about how they move through the world, that makes a swinger think, "I think I will approach that woman and ask her to join us"???
> 
> Not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to figure out why I am approached and invited so often. I am wondering if it has something to do with me.


I have to run some errands but I do think there are some things that people give off that indicate they may be open to certain things. I'll write more later.


----------



## ConanHub

WildMustang said:


> Is there some sort of sexual vibe that people give off, that make swingers perceive someone they approach or invite, is perhaps open to the lifestyle or experimentation with it???
> 
> What characteristics do you notice in a person or what is it about how they move through the world, that makes a swinger think, "I think I will approach that woman and ask her to join us"???
> 
> Not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to figure out why I am approached and invited so often. I am wondering if it has something to do with me.


Mrs. Conan I have been approached quite a bit. We are fitness fanatics and are very friendly, outgoing and confident as well as super affectionate and secure in our marriage.

Those are all good traits but the last couple are key. Insecure, unfriendly, uptight folks with questionable affection and solidity in their relationship are probably never approached.

You probably come off as easy going, friendly and fun loving. You probably aren't hideous either.:wink2:


----------



## DaveinOC

WildMustang said:


> Is there some sort of sexual vibe that people give off, that make swingers perceive someone they approach or invite, is perhaps open to the lifestyle or experimentation with it???
> 
> What characteristics do you notice in a person or what is it about how they move through the world, that makes a swinger think, "I think I will approach that woman and ask her to join us"???
> 
> Not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to figure out why I am approached and invited so often. I am wondering if it has something to do with me.


I've never been approached, but I would actually take that as a compliment if anything because that would most likely mean they think you are:

1) Approachable and seem non judgmental
2) Physically attractive 
3) Seem nice enough to not reject them with utter disgust

on the downside, he thinks your wife is hot, smack him please.


----------



## WildMustang

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan I have been approached quite a bit. We are fitness fanatics and are very friendly, outgoing and confident as well as super affectionate and secure in our marriage.
> 
> Those are all good traits but the last couple are key. Insecure, unfriendly, uptight folks with questionable affection and solidity in their relationship are probably never approached.
> 
> You probably come off as easy going, friendly and fun loving. You probably aren't hideous either.:wink2:


Thanks, @ConanHub! 

I am also a life long fitness fanatic (strength training and body building with barbell, dumbbells, machines) and take excellent care of myself with healthy diet, drinking lots of water, no alcohol or drugs (I am not opposed to drinking but it feels like I have poisoned my body when I drink, probably because I so rarely do).

My friends and family describe me as fun, friendly, gregarious, confident, affectionate, vivacious and genuinely a happy person who smiles a lot.

I would love to hear from someone who is in the swinging lifestyle, exactly what makes them approach a person and invite that person to join them in the bedroom. 

Maybe it is just, "Oh, she seems nice...Let's see if she will join us" or something as simple as that...I don't know...


----------



## WildMustang

DaveinOC said:


> I've never been approached, but I would actually take that as a compliment if anything because that would most likely mean they think you are:
> 
> 1) Approachable and seem non judgmental
> 2) Physically attractive
> 3) Seem nice enough to not reject them with utter disgust
> 
> on the downside, he thinks your wife is hot, smack him please.



I don't have a wife. I am a heterosexual woman...just so you know...


----------



## DaveinOC

WildMustang said:


> I don't have a wife. I am a heterosexual woman...just so you know...


oops my apology. well the points still stand i guess except the guy having hots for wife i guess


----------



## WildMustang

DaveinOC said:


> oops my apology. well the points still stand i guess except the guy having hots for wife i guess


No worries! :grin2:


----------



## WildMustang

I run into these people who have invited me from time to time, so I think I will respectfully ask them next time I see them. I will report back to TAM when I find out.

I am pretty non judgmental about what people choose to do in the privacy of their sex lives, so perhaps they sensed/perceived this before approaching me.

I respectfully told them, "Thanks, but no, thanks".

I would never out them to anyone. Not my story to tell.


----------



## ppg

I don't participate much but I thought I'd chime in here as my wife and I do have one experience in swinging and almost got involved in cuckolding. For my part I thought that it would boost my wife's libido if she were to feel desired by another man. I thought for sure it would jump start our sex lives. I have to admit the sexual energy leading up to our first meeting with the other couple was fun. It was like dating again, the other woman and myself and the other man and my wife would talk and chat and flirt and it was fun. The actual sex ended up seeming forced and slightly clumsy to me. My wife and I know each other's "moves" but not so with the other couple. During our encounter I was more fascinated with what my wife was experiencing but the other woman kept demanding my attention. Afterwards we felt awkward, used, and dirty. We just wanted to get out of there as fast as we could. Curiosity satisfied.

Years later I would recall watching my wife with the other man. I started investigating the cuckold lifestyle. I never felt the need to be humiliated, that didn't turn me on at all. It just turned me on to see my wife having sex. It was like watching porn starring the most beautiful woman in the world, my wife. This is something she almost agreed to go through with even after our bad experience with swinging. However in the end I finally decided that I really only wanted to do this because I was too lazy to up my game in the bedroom. 

After some frank talks with my wife we both decided that we BOTH need to be more responsive to each other's needs in the bed room; more effort on my part (and patience) and more interest on her part. And really, sex with each other for the rest of our lives is not such a bad prospect at all.


----------



## MattMatt

I have only ever known one couple who are swingers.

He liked it, she didn't.

He cajoled her into doing it Bd ehen that stopped working he best the living snot out of her 

They divorced eventually.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> I will be nice even though I could find your post could be seen as insulting, or at least ironic. This is pretty common of people in alternative lifestyles by the way. We don't do what you do because we are just not as evolved or enlightened as you. Considering how you think of yourselves as such free thinkers it's interesting how condescending you guys seem to be all the time when people don't see it the way you do.
> 
> Let me just say you don't understand me, my wife or people like me at all.
> 
> I covet my wife's sexuality. I am not at all afraid of it, she is free to go out and do what she wants but if that means being with other men then she won't do that with me. Fortunately to this point she feels the same way. I respect my wife and women enough to have expectations of her, trust in her agency and individuality and will move on if they have different ones than me. Just like anyone else in any relationships I have in my life I have clear expectations. I have no fear that she will go to someone else. If she does I will just move on. Will it be painful sure, but I ain't changing the reasonable expectations that we both agreed on because I may have to suffer some pain. So who is really operating out of fear here anyway? It ain't me.
> 
> Being monogamous may be a sacrifice for us, I say may, but it is one wholly worth making and is much more valuable to our lives then some new sex. I turned down sex when I was a single guy. I wanted it to be special. My default has never been **** a bunch of women. There are many guys like me. So I don't see it as missing out at all.
> 
> You posts seems to imply that all women want to **** a bunch of men, like this is their default sexuality. Men who want monogamy are holding them back. Thankfully this is just not true.


I think that you speak for the majority here, I feel exactly the same way. There is nothing more special than the intimacy of a couple who love and respect each other in this way and who would never want or desire another person in that unique bond. Sex without love is empty and meaningless for many of us, and holds no appeal. 
Great post.:smile2:


----------



## oldshirt

WildMustang said:


> Thanks, @ConanHub!
> 
> I am also a life long fitness fanatic (strength training and body building with barbell, dumbbells, machines) and take excellent care of myself with healthy diet, drinking lots of water, no alcohol or drugs (I am not opposed to drinking but it feels like I have poisoned my body when I drink, probably because I so rarely do).
> 
> My friends and family describe me as fun, friendly, gregarious, confident, affectionate, vivacious and genuinely a happy person who smiles a lot.
> 
> I would love to hear from someone who is in the swinging lifestyle, exactly what makes them approach a person and invite that person to join them in the bedroom.
> 
> Maybe it is just, "Oh, she seems nice...Let's see if she will join us" or something as simple as that...I don't know...


I really don't have any kind of news flash or insider secrets to share here that you yourself and the others haven't already said. 

If you are nice looking and pleasant and seen to be open minded and approachable, you will be approached by all sorts of people for all sorts of different things.

A real biggee is how you interact with the female half a couple though. She is the one that does the actual selection and has the real yay or nay power. If you give off any vibes that indicate you are attracted to women that will bump up your chances of being approached a lot. And if you are outwardly bisexual and sexually flirtatious with women, you can be pretty much guaranteed of being approached by couples from time to time.

The irony to this though is most of the people approaching you are probably not rank and file swingers at all but rather couples who just want to cuddle up to woman in between them or have the girls +1++y rub on each other. 

Most actual swingers stick to themselves within the swinger community and do not hit on vanillas. Some do, but most do not want the drama and unpredictability of people who aren't already in the lifestyle and don't know what they are doing. 

Is be willing to bet most of the people that have approached you are freelancers that just want to share a chick and are not established swingers and do not self-identify themselves as swingers at all. 

If you do have a conversation about it with them, you'll have to ask them and report back.


----------



## WildMustang

oldshirt said:


> I really don't have any kind of news flash or insider secrets to share here that you yourself and the others haven't already said.
> 
> If you are nice looking and pleasant and seen to be open minded and approachable, you will be approached by all sorts of people for all sorts of different things.
> 
> A real biggee is how you interact with the female half a couple though. She is the one that does the actual selection and has the real yay or nay power. If you give off any vibes that indicate you are attracted to women that will bump up your chances of being approached a lot. And if you are outwardly bisexual and sexually flirtatious with women, you can be pretty much guaranteed of being approached by couples from time to time.
> 
> The irony to this though is most of the people approaching you are probably not rank and file swingers at all but rather couples who just want to cuddle up to woman in between them or have the girls +1++y rub on each other.
> 
> Most actual swingers stick to themselves within the swinger community and do not hit on vanillas. Some do, but most do not want the drama and unpredictability of people who aren't already in the lifestyle and don't know what they are doing.
> 
> Is be willing to bet most of the people that have approached you are freelancers that just want to share a chick and are not established swingers and do not self-identify themselves as swingers at all.
> 
> If you do have a conversation about it with them, you'll have to ask them and report back.


Hmmmmmmmm

That is very interesting that you say "a real biggie is how you interact with the female half of the couple". I am a pretty affectionate, touchy feely type person and enjoy physical touch, even in platonic relationships and in relationships with other women (I am heterosexual).

While I am not sexually attracted to other women, I can see where my affectionate friendliness with the woman could be misinterpreted. 

I learned as a young woman to curb this touchy feely affection with men, so as to not give them the wrong idea, but I never gave it much thought with women. In my ignorance, I guess I thought bisexual or lesbian women would somehow just know I am into men and men only, because to me, and to most men I interact with, it seems obvious that I am into men. LOL

I also bond very easily with women as a rule in a sisterhood type way, strictly platonic, but close, if that makes sense.

So perhaps I am giving off that vibe that I am open to sex with women...

I got the feeling all these people had a lot of experience in asking people to join them...they were all super relaxed about it like they were asking me if I wanted piece of gum or a beer. 

Perhaps they were retired swingers no longer in the community or like you said, not in the community at all really but just wanting a chick between them.

Thanks so much for the reply...it is eye opening for me.


----------



## oldshirt

WildMustang said:


> Hmmmmmmmm
> 
> That is very interesting that you say "a real biggie is how you interact with the female half of the couple". I am a pretty affectionate, touchy feely type person and enjoy physical touch, even in platonic relationships and in relationships with other women (I am heterosexual).
> 
> While I am not sexually attracted to other women, I can see where my affectionate friendliness with the woman could be misinterpreted.
> 
> I learned as a young woman to curb this touchy feely affection with men, so as to not give them the wrong idea, but I never gave it much thought with women. In my ignorance, I guess I thought bisexual or lesbian women would somehow just know I am into men and men only, because to me, and to most men I interact with, it seems obvious that I am into men. LOL
> 
> I also bond very easily with women as a rule in a sisterhood type way, strictly platonic, but close, if that makes sense.
> 
> So perhaps I am giving off that vibe that I am open to sex with women...
> .



That and the other things previously mentioned would explain it. 

The fact that you are engaging and affectionate with the women but not touchy-feely or flirty with their men would also be a contributing factor. 

If you are engaging and interactive with the female half of the couple but respectful and nonthreatening towards her man, that would help make a woman more comfortable in inviting you into their marital bed (figuratively speaking) rather than if you showed overt interest in the man but not towards her. You'd get your eyes scratched out for that LOL


----------



## strongli

Context: I have run the gamut on swinging. swing Clubs. bars, homes, hotels. Couples and singles. 20 + years in the "business." Off and on Single and as a married cheater. 100 + partners. Single male, model bodybuilder who never had a problem scoring. Even at 50.

1. No edict fits all. But what I have to say fits almost all.
2. A lot of sexual addictions are getting worked out. And niche fixations. (Watch my wife go oral on 10, see my wife get screwed, watch my wife go les...etc). You are just a cog in their kink.
3. Longer term swingers are extremely defensive of their lifestyle. Extremely. Hence the derisive term vanilla.
4. The pretension is to a mystique of the initiated. THe intitiated are "free and open".
5. ALmost everbody in swinging has rules. (No kissing....no screwing without my consent...etc)
6. So much for "free and open"
7.. Couples who have no rules don't care about each other. Frequently one is a drunk and relieved of all duty to perform.
8.. Longer term swingers tend to form a hierachy. There are couples at the top. And underlings. It is about power. They will bring in the unitiated and groom them. As a woman, you will be eventually be expected to "screw my man... become bisexual" etc. 
9. Longer term swinging means everybody gossips about everbody else. It is junior high. Everybody is in everbody else's business.
10. Most couples don't stick around long. They sense the corrosion, even if they can't articulate it. Some flit in and out, and keep the game up for some years. 
11. I have a had two long term relationships with swinging women. Upon meeting they sung the swinging line: "This is about not being vanilla. It's just sex...etc." They quit swinging the minute we started dated. They realized they hated swinging, but were pushed into it by men and woman who proclaimed it was freedom. They longed for a long term, stable, giving monogamous man. Most people do. 
12. STD's will aways haunt you with every encounter. You will spend a few days afterward monitoring every tingle.

Disclaimer: I was married when I had these relationships, so I am still a bastard.


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## oldshirt

WildMustang said:


> I got the feeling all these people had a lot of experience in asking people to join them...they were all super relaxed about it like they were asking me if I wanted piece of gum or a beer.
> 
> Perhaps they were retired swingers no longer in the community or like you said, not in the community at all really but just wanting a chick between them.


Lot's of couples are interested in some form of interaction with a single female and many do not consider it swinging or even consider it nonmonogamous. 

There are even lots of people on swinger websites and that go to swingers clubs etc with the intent of finding a single female to join them and yet they do not self-identify themselves as swingers and many of the old-school, rank and file swingers do not consider them swingers either. Those people do not last in the swinger community very long because there really aren't very many single women in that community. It's much easier and more efficient to find single women in regular life which is the case that has happened with you. 

Everyone kind of makes up there own definitions. (we have even had a number of couples tell us, "we are not actually swingers, we just like to play with other couples now and then.") 

I personally do not consider a couple that only seeks FMF encounters to be "real" swingers, but some may disagree. 


So the lines are more blurry than what one would think they are. 

And some people are just more open and liberal minded than others and are simply more opportunistic for whatever opportunity presents itself, rather than ascribing to any particular lifestyle. 

If you do ask them about these things, you'll have to report back and let us know.


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## WildMustang

oldshirt said:


> That and the other things previously mentioned would explain it.
> 
> The fact that you are engaging and affectionate with the women but not touchy-feely or flirty with their men would also be a contributing factor.
> 
> If you are engaging and interactive with the female half of the couple but respectful and nonthreatening towards her man, that would help make a woman more comfortable in inviting you into their marital bed (figuratively speaking) rather than if you showed overt interest in the man but not towards her. You'd get your eyes scratched out for that LOL


It makes a lot of sense now...

Yes, I don't engage as much with the men and show as much affection toward the men out of respect for their being a couple, (even if and especially if I find the man attractive, I won't go there).

AND because I don't want my eyes scratched out by the woman.

So she is (correctly) perceiving that I am no threat to her (not trying to steal her guy) but she is also (incorrectly) perceiving I am being sexually open to sex with her when I am really just wanting a platonic, close bonding\sisterly\friendship with her.

Makes sense now...thanks so much!


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## WildMustang

oldshirt said:


> Lot's of couples are interested in some form of interaction with a single female and many do not consider it swinging or even consider it nonmonogamous.
> 
> There are even lots of people on swinger websites and that go to swingers clubs etc with the intent of finding a single female to join them and yet they do not self-identify themselves as swingers and many of the old-school, rank and file swingers do not consider them swingers either. Those people do not last in the swinger community very long because there really aren't very many single women in that community. It's much easier and more efficient to find single women in regular life which is the case that has happened with you.
> 
> Everyone kind of makes up there own definitions. (we have even had a number of couples tell us, "we are not actually swingers, we just like to play with other couples now and then.")
> 
> I personally do not consider a couple that only seeks FMF encounters to be "real" swingers, but some may disagree.
> 
> 
> So the lines are more blurry than what one would think they are.
> 
> And some people are just more open and liberal minded than others and are simply more opportunistic for whatever opportunity presents itself, rather than ascribing to any particular lifestyle.
> 
> If you do ask them about these things, you'll have to report back and let us know.


For sure, I will report back and let everyone know as soon as I see them again and ask them.


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## TaDor

Since I am newly "single" and when I'm ready to start to meet new women. I will have no problems do MFMF or MMF or FFM... as long as I'm not in a committed relationship. That is gonna take a while.
But next time I am serious with someone. I'd say - don't do Open relationship.


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## Married but Happy

TaDor said:


> Since I am newly "single" and when I'm ready to start to meet new women. I will have no problems do MFMF or MMF or FFM... as long as I'm not in a committed relationship. That is gonna take a while.
> But next time I am serious with someone. I'd say - *don't do Open relationship*.


I mostly agree with the bold. Open relationships are not swinging, and not poly. In an open relationship, you each do your own thing to find other partners for sex - if you are looking for love as well, then it would be a poly relationship. Open relationships can be divisive, and it is very difficult to make these work, IMO - ten times harder than swinging, at least. And in mutual open relationships, the woman can usually find a partner - or many partners - quite easily, while the man will usually struggle to find even one. In swinging, you do it _together_, and if done right, it deepens your communication and bond, and there is no difference in number or frequency of partners.


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## ConanHub

strongli said:


> Context: I have run the gamut on swinging. swing Clubs. bars, homes, hotels. Couples and singles. 20 + years in the "business." Off and on Single and as a married cheater. 100 + partners. Single male, model bodybuilder who never had a problem scoring. Even at 50.
> 
> 1. No edict fits all. But what I have to say fits almost all.
> 2. A lot of sexual addictions are getting worked out. And niche fixations. (Watch my wife go oral on 10, see my wife get screwed, watch my wife go les...etc). You are just a cog in their kink.
> 3. Longer term swingers are extremely defensive of their lifestyle. Extremely. Hence the derisive term vanilla.
> 4. The pretension is to a mystique of the initiated. THe intitiated are "free and open".
> 5. ALmost everbody in swinging has rules. (No kissing....no screwing without my consent...etc)
> 6. So much for "free and open"
> 7.. Couples who have no rules don't care about each other. Frequently one is a drunk and relieved of all duty to perform.
> 8.. Longer term swingers tend to form a hierachy. There are couples at the top. And underlings. It is about power. They will bring in the unitiated and groom them. As a woman, you will be eventually be expected to "screw my man... become bisexual" etc.
> 9. Longer term swinging means everybody gossips about everbody else. It is junior high. Everybody is in everbody else's business.
> 10. Most couples don't stick around long. They sense the corrosion, even if they can't articulate it. Some flit in and out, and keep the game up for some years.
> 11. I have a had two long term relationships with swinging women. Upon meeting they sung the swinging line: "This is about not being vanilla. It's just sex...etc." They quit swinging the minute we started dated. They realized they hated swinging, but were pushed into it by men and woman who proclaimed it was freedom. They longed for a long term, stable, giving monogamous man. Most people do.
> 12. STD's will aways haunt you with every encounter. You will spend a few days afterward monitoring every tingle.
> 
> Disclaimer: I was married when I had these relationships, so I am still a bastard.


This was great! Thanks!


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