# Wife rationalizing cheating



## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My wife sent me an email - that I guess was her form of an "apology". In other words, it wasn't an apology at all, merely a way to rationalize her infidelity.

Here is an excerpt: "I have had a lot of time to reflect on our situation in the last few weeks. What happened between us is very sad. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident women with different needs. But somehow, those needs were not being met and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage to satisfy those needs. Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path."


She goes on to say that she hopes IC will get us both to a better place emotionally. Of course she never actually apologizes for cheating and lying - she just says she is sorry - sorry for herself.

So her wrong path is the path to a better her - that is how she is looking at it. She is reading "Broken Open" and getting validation for her cheating because her cheating was a sign of her newfound confidence.


The sad thing is, when we married - she was a very confident, very together woman - young, but wise. As she aged, we DID grow apart (as most marriage do at one point) - kids, jobs, boredom.... I went through the same feelings of growing apart earlier in our marriage except I worked on rebuilding our relationship and my feelings for her. Now, my wife is deathly afraid of aging - DEATHLY afraid. She gets botox regularly, has had lipo, laser skin treatments, breast implants - and she was very good looking to begin with. Still is, but she looks a little plastic. So she is definitely NOT confident about her own self-image.

I think this talk of "growing" to become a "confident woman" is just "girl talk" - of how my wife's circle of single, unhappy, divorced women justify their betrayals. None of them are happy and they're all chasing younger guys (not too successfully either) in order to fight growing old. Chasing young guys at a club, all of whom would be happy to get into your pants ONCE is not a sign of confidence. Kind of pathetic, really.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife's fears and the way she's dealt with them will make keeping her true hard. She'll start wanting and craving the validation that young guys attention will give her.

When a married woman feels so insecure to go under the knife for breast surgery, it never ever seems to be for the husband. He pays for them, and the wife begins using them to attract new guys.

They really should educate husbands about this during the lead up to the breast implants so he can either nix the idea or be properly on watch for the coming EA/PA


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My wife got her breasts done when she was in the midst of an EA with a younger guy she met golfing (13 years younger). It morphed into a PA the following summer. BTW, my wife and I have always been independent, financially. She looked after her own boob job - although I helped nurse her back post-op. Honestly, I liked her breasts better before - they fit her petite frame better. 

I discovered the EA 1 year later - but by then the PA was already over. My wife let me believe it was "just" an EA. We had several false R's because my wife had already emotionally detached. She never got it back. We separated last month and she FINALLY admitted to the PA (reluctantly, I should add). I can't forgive her for the deception and lies.

She is still in a fog, and when I recently contacted the POS OM, she actually defended him and went so far as to try to claim that she made up the part about the PA. This scumbag is now married with a 1 year old child. He cheated on his fiance (now his wife) with my wife in 2009/2010.

My wife is living in her own fantasy world, where she is a "confident" woman, looking for a younger man. I am no longer waiting for her to snap out of it. She is gone forever.


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## FryFish (Sep 18, 2012)

I really hope you exposed the POSOM... His WIFE deserves the chance to decide if she wants stay married to a cheating piece of ****.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

FryFish said:


> I really hope you exposed the POSOM... His WIFE deserves the chance to decide if she wants stay married to a cheating piece of ****.


Well, I did contact the POS two days ago with mixed results. Posted about it in another thread. Glad I did, just to let the POS know that I am on to him. If I see him on the golf course, I will have to resist the urge to drive a Pro-V1 right into his little nutsack.


Oh, for background, my wife is 48 but looks mid-thirties. The OM was 13 years younger. I am 53, but in good shape - people say I look mid-40's. Yeah, maybe through beer goggles. Late forties though. The best part of this whole deal is I have lost 16 pounds - so no more middle aged spread!!


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

You need to let his wife know. As FryFish stated she has a right to know what she is married to. She may not want to accept it but she does need to know.


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## hurthubby (Nov 9, 2012)

Cheaters always try to rationalize what they did, when i caught my wife she did something very simialar. Tried telling me it was out of bordem and she was curious.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Yes, my wife has gone through stages of rationalization.

When I first discovered what I thought was just an EA, my wife said that we had grown apart, and she had to keep it secret because I would get mad if I found out. Yes... yes I would.

Then she started to blame me for taking the kids for the odd weekend to the cottage - forcing her to stay home and golf and then go clubbing.

Then she started to blame me for her pathological lying, saying I forced her to lie, because I didn't like her friends or her lifestyle.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

A lot of people tell themselves lies so they can live with themselves. After a while, they begin to believe their own lies. The lies get bigger with time. Before you know it, your W will have herself convinced that she's a true, blameless heroine in a tragic romance story.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Have you posted the POS on cheaterville.com?

Might want to consider putting your wife up there as well.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

So, hooking up with you when she was 23 was evidence that she was insecure and bewildered? Cheating was evidence of her being a more confident woman? Her needs weren't being met, so the blame for her cheating is on your shoulders.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

She may be in a fantasy world, but you're enabling it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> "I have had a lot of time to reflect on our situation in the last few weeks. What happened between us is very sad. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident women with different needs. But somehow, *those needs were not being met* and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage to satisfy those needs. Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path."


The whole paragraph is pure contradiction.

She seems everything but secure/confident. She didn't felt confident she felt entitled to fullfill unrealistics needs. I say unrealistics becuase these "needs" (actually wants) can't be satisfied by your husband, no matter how plugged he is. It's a different apetite what she wanted satisfied. You can't make her feel good in her own skin, with the natural symptoms of her age. You can't be the test she still "has it", it's necessaryly done by getting other men attention. You can't be, by definition, the other man she ever slept with (you were her only, right?). Those were her "needs". Of course you never could satisfy them.
Simply put being married (with all it means) was not what she wanted anymore. If that was the case she could push you to rebuild the marriage. As she never wanted a divorce she decides to have a cake on the side. To prove herself. (vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism)
Thing is she always could prove herself, met those needs without cheating! She could divorce you before.

Yeah, she's still, years later, rationalizing. Really, cheating is a sign of confidence, growth, maturity?

If back then she were able to face the mirror and own her sh1t (the above "needs" list) instead of shifting the blame (the bolded part means "you failed to met my needs"), to hold onto those secrets (what killed any possible intimacy to be re-established) and lie like a pro (again for selfish porpouses, to control the outcome) maybe you could have a chance. She never was into it. You cheated and then screwed up ther possible reconciliation. What a waste.

She's still in the same hollow path. In five years she can't a cougar anymore. Ther's no botox in the world. It will be very sad.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> "I have had a lot of time to reflect on our situation in the last few weeks. What happened between us is very sad. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident women with different needs. But somehow, those needs were not being met and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage to satisfy those needs. Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path."


I can't believe the language in this. It's so classically self-exonerating - things happened to her; she didn't do them. I could rewrite it to make it less of the lie that it is:

"I have had a lot of time to reflect on what I did in the last few weeks. What happened is that I made selfish choices. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident, but misguided, unfaithful woman with different issues. But somehow, I thought that I had the right to expect you to solve all of my issues and I did irreparable damage by breaking my sacred vows. I am vain and narcissistic. Some may choose to excuse it by calling it a mid-life crisis, but I know I made the choice to follow the wrong path."

There. I fixed it.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I can't believe the language in this. It's so classically self-exonerating - things happened to her; she didn't do them. I could rewrite it to make it less of the lie that it is:
> 
> "I have had a lot of time to reflect on what I did in the last few weeks. What happened is that I made selfish choices. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident, but misguided, unfaithful woman with different issues. But somehow, I thought that I had the right to expect you to solve all of my issues and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage. I am vain and narcissistic. Some may choose to excuse it by calling it a mid-life crisis, but I know I made the choice to follow the wrong path."
> 
> There. I fixed it.


I would have a hard time NOT sending the "corrected" version back to her.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Have you told your ws how plastic she looks ?? 
Have you actually sat down and told her from a mans POV how desperate her and her friends look to mature guys and easy to younger guys.

You should !!!
Its time to put on the big boy pants and tear her lil world up, with reality.

By the way, I'm glad you are away from her.
Until she accept getting old, she is going to be unfaithful.
As for the pos, just don't get caught. and make sure everyone knows he's a pos.

I'm sorry you're here, and Good Luck going forward.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I would never respond the that wench. She would be "dead to me".


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> My wife got her breasts done when she was in the midst of an EA with a younger guy she met golfing (13 years younger)... Honestly, I liked her breasts better before - they fit her petite frame better.


I know what you mean about this, I prefer natural also, something about those over stretched balloons they like nowadays just doesn't click with me.

Imagine what women would think if men started showing up with implants to enhance shoulders, biceps, butt, thighs, pecs... ya think they'd be attracted to them? I doubt it.

Cedarman, your wife sounds like she's caught up in what I call the Desperate Housewives syndrome. I see it everywhere. Some pull it off, most look pathetic.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Have you told your ws how plastic she looks ??
> Have you actually sat down and told her from a mans POV how desperate her and her friends look to mature guys and easy to younger guys.
> 
> You should !!!
> Its time to put on the big boy pants and tear her lil world up, with reality.


Yup. What these older women who seek validation via attention of men (any man) don't see is how pathetic they look in the process. Attention wh0res. It's not the attention of A man they seek, it's the attention of ANY man. A mature guy will see them for what they are, and will want nothing more to do with them that what is so easily given up between their legs. The young guys are no different. They see the older, middle aged married women as easy targets. When they go to the bars picking up on the younger (harder to get) chicks, and the night appears bleak, they look to the cougars. Easy prey. And the cougars eat it up thinking the younger guy is into them, and just oh-so-glad they can "pull" a young stud. 

Mature, confident, smart women do not fall into that trap or that nonsense. Thank god for those kind of women.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> A lot of people tell themselves lies so they can live with themselves. After a while, they begin to believe their own lies. The lies get bigger with time. Before you know it, your W will have herself convinced that she's a true, blameless heroine in a tragic romance story.


Just four sentences and it speaks volumes.

aD, you nailed it.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My wife and I are separated now, and I only talk to her about the kids. So I don't bother telling her how I feel about her looks. In fact, I refuse to be in the same room with her unless there is another adult. 

This is because another part of her fantasy is that I am so emotionally wrecked that I may do her harm!!! She actually said this during mediation. What an ego! So now, I will not put myself into a position where her flights of fancy could screw me over. As for the being emotionally wrecked and dangerous - I am looking after her children 12 out of 14 days - this is not a problem for her because she only thinks of herself, as usual. I am sure one of her wonderful divorced friends put her up to this. She has been a project of theirs for about 2-3 years. My wife was the only one in her gang (of about 10 - 12) who was still married.

Little does she know that I have moved past the longing stage and now look at her more with pity. Most men will still find her attractive - and any red-blooded mid thirties guy would love to get into her pants... once. To me, she is starting to look a little trampy. She looks good in clothes, but I know where the scars are.


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## Didnotbreakme (Nov 16, 2012)

My wife refuses to admit to a affair I suspect last 4 years. Althought she practically told on herself her position now is to deny it. The issue is that we can NEVER move on until she is able to admit and ask for forgiveness. Until then we will always be in this non-resolved state. I can forgive, but I believe I deserve a apology and to be asked for forgiveness. She is a selfish person who can only think about how this admission will make HER look. I have a hard time respecting her as a woman, but unfortunately I do love her. I believe you just can't move forward until an affair is dealt with one way or another.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Didnotbreakme said:


> I believe you just can't move forward until an affair is dealt with one way or another.


I agree. My wife hid the PA - allowing me to believe it was "just" an EA. But our attempts at reconciliation were doomed from the start because she was holding this secret. And by holding the secret, she looked at everything in our marriage as a threat to her secret (her "security"). So for 3 - 4 year, our marriage festered in a stew of her lies. It was like rollercoaster - some really good periods followed by a bad period. Over and over again.

Don't hold your breath waiting for your wife to beg for your forgiveness. In fact, you might want to just forgive her for the affair (as long as you can deal with it), but hold her accountable for the lies.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Cedarman, make sure you do the things necessary to protect yourself:

1. Physically, Get tested, workout, see a Doctor
2. Financially


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> My wife got her breasts done when she was in the midst of an EA with a younger guy she met golfing (13 years younger). It morphed into a PA the following summer. BTW, my wife and I have always been independent, financially. She looked after her own boob job - although I helped nurse her back post-op. Honestly, I liked her breasts better before - they fit her petite frame better.
> 
> I discovered the EA 1 year later - but by then the PA was already over. My wife let me believe it was "just" an EA. We had several false R's because my wife had already emotionally detached. She never got it back. We separated last month and she FINALLY admitted to the PA (reluctantly, I should add). I can't forgive her for the deception and lies.


In my opinion most EAs are really PA. Men rarely get too emotionally attached to a women unless sex is promised or involved. If sex hasn't happened it was on the table.

I tried the EA lie for about 2 seconds, but could not continue to lie. I just felt too much guilt and regret, and my wife is too smart to be lied to for too long. It seems sad to me that so many spouses are willing to buy the EA lie. If it hadn't yet turned sexual at the time the strayer was caught, it was planned to go physical. No guy befriends a woman without sex in mind, in my opinion. At least I don't know any who would.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"I have had a lot of time to reflect on our situation in the last few weeks. What happened between us is very sad. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident women with different needs. But somehow, those needs were not being met and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage to satisfy those needs. Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path."


My response: Tell someone who cares !!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I agree. My wife hid the PA - allowing me to believe it was "just" an EA. But our attempts at reconciliation were doomed from the start because she was holding this secret. And by holding the secret, she looked at everything in our marriage as a threat to her secret (her "security"). So for 3 - 4 year, our marriage festered in a stew of her lies. It was like rollercoaster - some really good periods followed by a bad period. Over and over again.
> 
> Don't hold your breath waiting for your wife to beg for your forgiveness. In fact, you might want to just forgive her for the affair (as long as you can deal with it), but hold her accountable for the lies.


It's the lies that sunk us in the end. My WW tried telling me it was only an EA at first. There is more to it, but it's lies and lack of real remorse that finished our marriage. The affair was a symptom of the same cause; a selfish, self entitled, princess syndrome woman who hasn't ever been held to account or had real consequences. Until now.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Since she has money and she is still trying to live the lie nothing is going to change. I would keep the hard line of not seeing her but also not responding to her in anyway except with regards to the kids.

I am hoping she is the one that moved out and the kids are with you. My wife went through a midlife crisis and is coming out the other end. It took her awhile to apoligize about the A. it always included buts, excuses.

Stay strong for the kids. As mentioned above get checked for STD's. I am betting if you know about the one there is a good chance there is a 2nd 3rd and so on.

Do your kids know about the A? My mistake was not telling my kids. It will help you with your kids and it will shake her tree pretty hard.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Yes, my wife has gone through stages of rationalization.
> 
> When I first discovered what I thought was just an EA, my wife said that we had grown apart, and she had to keep it secret because I would get mad if I found out. Yes... yes I would.
> 
> ...


Isn't it amazing the lies people tell themselves to justify their actions? You ex is truly pitiful, clinging to her fading youth. You sound like you are moving in the right direction in all this.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Mahike: yes, she moved out, into a one bedroom condo (I.e. not suitable for two children). She wanted to live in our house, separated. This shows how detached and selfish she is. She wanted to be able to date and go out when it was "my week" but had no appreciation of the hurt as well as toxic unhealthy environment for the kids.

I got tested for STDs this week, after 26 years being monogamous. Get the results in two weeks.

Yes, I too am convinced that the EA/PA was NOT the only one. It took place 3 years ago and my wife's behaviour during our false R didn't really change (it would for months at a time, then her girlfriends would enable her to revert back). I really hate her circle of friends (who I have never met, since my wife kept them separate from the family).

She is still in a fog, living in a fantasy world where she meets a handsome, successful 35 year old and they live happily ever after. It is sad and pathetic to watch.

Mahike: how long did it take your wife to come out the other end? For my wife it has already been about 5 years. I have given up on waiting for her to snap out of it.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Didnotbreakme said:


> My wife refuses to admit to a affair I suspect last 4 years. Althought she practically told on herself her position now is to deny it. The issue is that we can NEVER move on until she is able to admit and ask for forgiveness. Until then we will always be in this non-resolved state. I can forgive, but I believe I deserve a apology and to be asked for forgiveness. She is a selfish person who can only think about how this admission will make HER look. I have a hard time respecting her as a woman, but unfortunately I do love her. I believe you just can't move forward until an affair is dealt with one way or another.


 I've been through a similar situation. Google "toxic shame." I think you may find some insight as to your wife's state of mind.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There's some sort of karmic effect out there that says that a remorseless, self-justifying, cheating spouse will degrade him/herself further once the A is out in the open. The cheater's lies become more transparent, the lack of maturity and honor becomes screamingly obvious, and behavior with the opposite sex looks more and more pathetic.

Somehow I think that all of this is unwittingly meant somehow to soothe the BS - after all, once you see the dishonorable, pathetic person that you thought you knew and loved, isn't it a bit easier to move on? Small consolation, I know, but it has to make it at least a tiny bit easier.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Cedarman,

I experienced almost the exact same thing.

You are moving ahead and doing well with the devastation; that is appearant by what you are saying in your messages.

My hat is off to you! My only advice is to keep letting go emotionally, and keep your self focused on the kids and your future.

There will be light at the end of your tunnel.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My wife had the nerve to call me this morning asking if I could come over to her place to fix her email. My daughters are with her for the first multi-night stay (Thur/Fri/Sat). I think my eldest daughter did something to her computer.

I told her that it is weird to ask me, given what happened this week. 

Just to highlight how bizarre, I am posting some more of her weird email sent to me on Weds (the morning after I contacted the POS OM). Two days later, she is asking for my help. She is truly a self-centered narcissist to even think of asking.

Here is her full email - remember, this is sent Weds morning right after I had contacted the POS OM from her 2008 EA and 4 - 6 month 2009/2010 PA (my notes in red):

"*******,

I did not have a physical affair with K***n. I made that up. Remember the context in which this "confession" was obtained from me. On the day of the **** banquet, you had spoken with your lawyer and suggested to me that we could speed up the divorce process if there was a physical relationship. (NOTE: I had told her that divorce on grounds of adultery is longer, more expensive and you need proof of sex. That is when she confessed.) I stupidly "confessed" without thinking, hoping it would in fact speed up the process, without understanding that it would hurt not just you and our kids but also other people who are not even part of this equation.

I made it up because I thought it would make it easier for you to let go of me. (NOTE: the past month has been hell for me, with her also telling me she is tested for STD's at every checkup and that she didn't view her affair as "wrong" even though they were both married with kids. According to her the "sex was fun". Now she is saying she made it all up? Does she think everyone is an idiot?)

I wanted to have a physical relationship with K***n but never went through with it because I had my breasts done in March 2009 and the scars from that surgery was horrible. I was too self conscious to let anyone near it. (NOTE: Does this sound like a "confident" woman? Also the scars were healed in weeks, still highly visible, but nothing a horny 32 year couldn't overlook in a dark basement)

I have had a lot of time to reflect on our situation in the last few weeks. What happened between us is very sad. I changed from the young, insecure, bewildered 23 year old into a more confident women with different needs. But somehow, those needs were not being met and I did irreparable damage by looking outside the marriage to satisfy those needs. Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path.

What is happening now is also very sad. Tragic. I know I am responsible for it and I am sorry. I am working on getting to a better place emotionally and I hope you will too."


She is "sorry". She has not once looked me in the I and said "I am sorry for what I did to YOU". All of her "sorries" are for herself. She is sorry she got caught, she is sorry I contacted the POS OM, and now she is sorry she told me the truth (years after the fact) and is now covering up for the POS OM with another lie.

Sorry honey.... But I am just TOO busy to help you this morning.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Good for you for refusing. You are well rid of her and I am glad that you are moving on.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Fake tits, fake skin, fake memories, fake confidence...

Is anything on this woman real? Divorce this basket case and move on brother.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Chris and BrokLanders - I am working on it. It's tough because it is still fresh and raw for me, but every day seems to get better.

Next week WILL be rough though. Thursday would have been our 25th Anniversary, so I am prepared for a rough go. I think I will take my daughters and maybe another couple out for a very good dinner at a good restaurant. Funny thing is, I already have a reservation for 2 at the same restaurant my wife and I celebrated our first anniversary. Almost forgot I made it (did this about 3 months ago following our summer vacation, which I thought was great for everyone).

It's tough to let go of a woman you have loved for 25 years - but realize that the past 5-6 I have been loving her memory, not the actual person. Still working on letting go - believe that I am 70% there...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Oh, for background, *my wife is 48* but looks mid-thirties. The OM was 13 years younger. I am 53, but in good shape - people say I look mid-40's. Yeah, maybe through beer goggles. Late forties though. The best part of this whole deal is *I have lost 16 pounds* - so no more middle aged spread!!


Don't stop there. Muscle up, get a flat stomach, and you'll be pulling 38 year olds, solid. Make sure your STBXWW finds out about your new conquests, just not from you directly. In this case, the best revenge is womanizing well. With the youngest women possible.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Don't stop there. Muscle up, get a flat stomach, and you'll be pulling 38 year olds, solid. Make sure your STBXWW finds out about your new conquests, just not from you directly. In this case, the best revenge is womanizing well. With the youngest women possible.


Actually the OP doesn't even need to make sure the ex w finds out. These kind of things have a way of reaching ex wives. Otherwise this is excellent advice IMO.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Actually the OP doesn't even need to make sure the ex w finds out. These kind of things have a way of reaching ex wives. Otherwise this is excellent advice IMO.


The point is to not hide the new harem from the kids, family, etc and it _will _get to her.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> (NOTE: the past month has been hell for me, with *her also telling me she is tested for STD's at every checkup and that she didn't view her affair as "wrong" even though they were both married with kids. According to her the "sex was fun"*. Now she is saying she made it all up? Does she think everyone is an idiot?)


STD TEST @ EVERY CHECKUP!?!










Maybe you should DNA the kids.



Cedarman said:


> Sorry honey.... But I am just TOO busy to help you this morning.


Fookin' A!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your wife's language is particularly effective when it comes to not taking any responsibility for her actions. I notice a lot that people who have done what she has can rely on modern terms that we use to discuss relationships. So many of the terms neutralize, whitewash, or just deceive. A friend of mine calls it 'psychospeak.' I like the old words better. Soon we'll need a translator to really know the truth of things:

Psychospeak (PS) – English (Eng) bilingual dictionary -

PS rationalize -> Eng. lie
PS dysfunctional -> Eng. mad
PS emotional affair -> Eng. knife to the heart
PS physical affair -> Eng. knife to the heart
PS in a new reality -> Eng. heartbroken
PS emotional violation -> Eng. betrayal
PS friendship -> Eng. sex
PS emotional support -> Eng. sex
PS facebook -> Eng. cheater’s paradise
PS self-actuate -> Eng. cheat
PS reconcile -> Eng. try to heal the wound
PS fragile -> Eng. hanging on by a thin thread
PS in mid-life crisis -> Eng. selfish
PS narcissistic personality disorder -> Eng. nuts
PS borderline personality -> Eng. nuts
PS controlling personality -> Eng. nuts
PS NO ENTRY -> Eng. honor
PS NO ENTRY -> Eng. duty
PS NO ENTRY -> Eng. loyalty


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

LOL! No, the kids are mine - you can tell by just looking at them. 

No, our first 18 years were absolutely great. (edit: Absolutely great from MY perspective. If you were to ask my wife, it has been bad for 10 - 12 years - ever since kids basically.) Then it was like a switch turned off. Complete personality change. I can actually trace back via my extensive family photo-record to the exact weekend where my wife told her first lie 7 years ago (about golfing of all things). Even then, the next couple years were OK, but the lies just got worse and worse. The real rollercoaster started about 5 years ago.

Yeah, the STD test thing really threw me. Every year for the past 3 or 4 years. And we had been having sex (good sex too) regularly until about 8 months ago, when it started to be completely one sided in terms of desire. Oh - that reminds me of another "chick talk" line that my wife picked up from a celebrity bio or one of her friends. Her "Vagina doesn't lie" - meaning she is no longer attracted to me. Nice huh?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

This is all par for the cheater script.

1. they rationalize their behavior because they don't want to think of themselves as a bad person.

2. she is feeling insecure not more secure, so she is seeking validation from men outside the marriage.

My own wife rationalized it by saying she thought I didn't want her anymore. I was trying like hell to get her attention because I knew something was wrong and she said she didn't think I wanted her anymore. It makes no sense, because they write reality to justify their actions.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> STD TEST @ EVERY CHECKUP!?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The iceberg graphic is a nice touch lol


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ovid said:


> This is all par for the cheater script.
> 
> 1. *they rationalize their behavior because they don't want to think of themselves as a bad person*...It makes no sense, because they write reality to justify their actions.


Many hamsters died to bring you this information.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I can actually trace back via my extensive family photo-record to the exact weekend where my *wife told her first lie 7 years ago *(about golfing of all things). Even then, the next couple years were OK, but the lies just got worse and worse. The real rollercoaster started about 5 years ago.


I'd say that's when she decided to go fish.



Cedarman said:


> Oh - that reminds me of another "chick talk" line that my wife picked up from a celebrity bio or one of her friends. Her "Vagina doesn't lie" - meaning she is no longer attracted to me. Nice huh?


When did she start hanging with her group of toxic sloots? 
When did you become aware of their proclivities?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> A lot of people tell themselves lies so they can live with themselves. After a while, they begin to believe their own lies. *The lies get bigger with time. Before you know it, your W will have herself convinced that she's a true, blameless heroine in a tragic romance story.*


^^^^^^
This right there is both humorous and ironic.
People F- up their lives, blame others and then delude themselves into thinking that they are victims.

There is a term for that...,
I think its called " professional victim syndrome."


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I'd say that's when she decided to go fish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She started to hang with her current group around the same time she started to lie. 

Problem is, she lied about her "friends". I knew one of them (actually liked her too) who at the time was married, with two kids. My wife would always use "Nancy" as her excuse as in "Dont worry, Nancy will be there with me too". We actually socialized a little bit with her as a couple. Then my wife would tell me that all her other girlfriends were married with kids too. And when it started, it was only once every couple of months - so wasn't too bad. It was only later (2010) that I learned that "Nancy" had actually done her own divorce and was now living with her former high school sweetheart and that EVERY one of the other friends was divorced, separated, or having an affair. EVERY one. (my wife excuses her lie by saying "I said they were married, I didn't say HAPPILY married") 

Now "Nancy" is not really a regular member of her group - I still kind of like "Nancy". But the other, regular members of her group are toxic. Unhappy, fighting their age, thinking they're a lot hotter than they are, desperate. My wife never introduced her good friends to me. They would never even come into the house - BBM'ing when they arrived and waiting in their car/taxi. I think they were uncomfortable around husbands and families.

During our false R's, my wife would stay away from them. But would always, after a few months go out with them (with an agreed curfew which made me feel like a father, instead of a husband). But I didn't put the boundaries firm enough - that was my mistake - should have insisted she just not associate with most of them. But the reality is, boundaries are only good if you respect them and my wife wouldn't have respected them. I know that now.

Her friends are toxic enablers - and have been introducing my wife to guys for at least the past year. And they (and my wife) have been presenting her as single, unattached and younger than her real age. It's like my wife was their project and NOW that she is separated, she is a "full patch" member of the gang.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> She started to hang with her current group around the same time she started to lie.
> 
> Problem is, she lied about her "friends". I knew one of them (actually liked her too) who at the time was married, with two kids. My wife would always use "Nancy" as her excuse as in "Dont worry, Nancy will be there with me too". We actually socialized a little bit with her as a couple. Then my wife would tell me that all her other girlfriends were married with kids too. And when it started, it was only once every couple of months - so wasn't too bad. It was only later (2010) that I learned that "Nancy" had actually done her own divorce and was now living with her former high school sweetheart and that EVERY one of the other friends was divorced, separated, or having an affair. EVERY one. (my wife excuses her lie by saying "I said they were married, I didn't say HAPPILY married")
> 
> ...


How pathetic. What're you going to do when she comes back in 5 or 6 years repentant and remorseful?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> How pathetic. What're you going to do when she comes back in 5 or 6 years repentant and remorseful?


I will probably listen to her regrets politely, then close the door or hang up and go back to my family and or new companion. Everyone I know is saying that this is very sad, but that in three years I will look back on this and be thankful that it happened.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> It's like my wife was their *Prospect * _(fixed that for you)_ and NOW that she is separated, she is a "full patch" member of the gang.


Unfortunately, these women are not 1 percenters. They're 50 percenters.

The thing is, I think your wife is just about the lowest of the low. She didn't "fall" or stumble into anything. She didn't make a series of bad decisions or bad boundaries. She set out cold bloodedly to become a sloot. And she did it.

ETA: I don't even want to think about what kind of "wings" they have on their colors.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I will probably listen to her regrets politely, then close the door or hang up and go back to my family *including my* new *Harem*. Everyone I know is saying that this is very sad, but that in three years I will look back on this and be thankful that it happened.


Fixed that for you, too.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Machiavelli: Yeah, my wife has been very disappointing. The reason I said "Project" is that my wife is by far the most successful as well as the best looking in her group (even though she is the oldest too). I truly believe her group felt uncomfortable with a friend who still had a husband. A couple of them, in particular, were late bloomers - probably only discovering their new style and ability to attract men after turning forty. Their husbands are all "losers". So I guess I am now a "loser" in their books. I take that as a badge of honour.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Tragic. What a shame.
What's worse is this gang will desert her the very moment she really needs them. It's a garantee. Then, a few more years and the boob job and botox won't work anymore but she will be pathetically keep trying and basically alone, very alone.

What is the plan with the kids, 50-50?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Machiavelli: Yeah, my wife has been very disappointing. The reason I said "Project" is that my wife is by far the most successful as well as the best looking in her group (even though she is the oldest too). I truly believe her group felt uncomfortable with a friend who still had a husband. A couple of them, in particular, were late bloomers - probably only discovering their new style and ability to attract men after turning forty. Their husbands are all "losers". So I guess I am now a "loser" in their books. I take that as a badge of honour.


Project is the right word for what you were saying. I couldn't resist bikerizing it to "prospect", the term for "prospective member." Sounds like your wife went from a "hang around" to a "prospect" to a "patch holder". 

I know about all these late bloomers, as I have had many of them as clients. They are one of the new products of modern society.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Of course she was rationalizing. She's a female.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Those are sad, empty lives that your W and her friends now lead. I would feel sorry for them if they weren't so capable of inflicting so much pain so cavalierly on so many people. When you realize that all of the children of these destroyed marriages are part of the carnage, there's absolutely no sympathy to be had.


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## PanchoVilla (Jun 2, 2012)

Rationalizing with women in MLC is very difficult to deal with. You can "surf their wave" by reinforcing them to believe how beautiful they look (hey, there is nothing wrong with looking beautiful), how you do it? hey baby, you look hot, wow lady those shoes looks nice on your beautiful feet, your face today is astonishing etc, etc, etc....You can accomplish a lot ( including incredible sex). The only complex portion of this whole deal is to get rid of that "sign" on her chest that says: "I'm available the only hindrance that I have is my husband"

My wife is 52 (going to 53 in Dec, she looks like 35, 2 hours of exercising a day ) I'm 54 very fit 170 lbs lifting weight like a demon, married for 32 years....

Her toxic divorced girlfriends (8 of them) are driving us apart. What can I tell you. Surf the wave for the mean time if you want to remain married, fight the chest sign...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

PanchoVilla said:


> Rationalizing with women in MLC is very difficult to deal with. You can "surf their wave" by reinforcing them to believe how beautiful they look (hey, there is nothing wrong with looking beautiful), how you do it? hey baby, you look hot, wow lady those shoes looks nice on your beautiful feet, your face today is astonishing etc, etc, etc....You can accomplish a lot ( including incredible sex). The only complex portion of this whole deal is to get rid of that "sign" on her chest that says: "I'm available the only hindrance that I have is my husband"
> 
> My wife is 52 (going to 53 in Dec, she looks like 35, 2 hours of exercising a day ) I'm 54 very fit 170 lbs lifting weight like a demon, married for 32 years....
> 
> Her toxic divorced girlfriends (8 of them) are driving us apart. What can I tell you. Surf the wave for the mean time if you want to remain married, fight the chest sign...


You probably need to start withholding compliments and behaving in a less engaged manner. I see from your other comments you are trying to intercept her commo. What are you doing to cut her out from her toxic yenta herd?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

We are giving to the pack too much power. Your wife didn't succumb to peer pressure. She gravitated towards those friends because they fitted, she chose them, their lifestyle. I asume her emotional estate (obvious personal crisis) made her jelous of their freedom, their outlook, what she mistoke as strength. She didn't got a virus from these people. She didn't got sucked. The fact is she's clearly lost but she was "ready", already in that path before they entered in the picture. They just share the same "illness".
She was the one who set up the double life (friends exclusive for her) because she wanted to, they just fit with the picture. Many other go there with no chances to have toxic friends anyway.


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## PanchoVilla (Jun 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> You probably need to start withholding compliments and behaving in a less engaged manner. I see from your other comments you are trying to intercept her commo. What are you doing to cut her out from her toxic yenta herd?


Nothing. Dont want to look controlling. I dont want to hijack this tread. Anyway, if you run out of bullets it is better to do nothing. What is "commo"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Acabado: Very true. Same with her affair. I was very angry at the POS OM, and still am. But reality is, if it wasn't him it would have been somebody else.

I can't help but feel sad though, that my wife slummed it with this guy. It's not like he viewed her as his special someobody - he was sleeping around with at least one, maybe two others while sleeping with my wife. And they did it in his basement apartment (his grandfather's house). Seems so sleazy. As much as I hate my wife right now, she was worth at least a decent hotel to carry out her affair. 

Anyway, I view my wife as ill. She is making bizarre choices and when it comes to our relationship (which she says is no longer a relationship) she is totally psycho. Eg - in our very last conversation (when she was trying to get me to help her with her computer) - I said no. But I also said that I want us to get to a point where we can raise our kids cooperatively and work as a couple in their best interests. I didn't mean "couple" as in married - I meant couple as in united co-parents. But she took offense to the word couple - saying "we're not a couple anymore!!!". So she has a sociopathic focus on the negative when it comes to us.

I hope she grows out of it, just so it is easier to deal with the kid stuff. I think her toxic friends are coaching her to make this as difficult as possible - since they have all gone through this and they all love to play the poor, dedicated, victim SuperMom - whose "loser" husbands are preventing them from seeing their beloved children as often as they like. We had our kids late (married 10 years before kids) - so our kids make both of us seem younger (most other parents are 7 - 10 year younger). And young kids are the ultimate prop for an aging MILF.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Acabado: Very true. Same with her affair. I was very angry at the POS OM, and still am. But reality is, if it wasn't him it would have been somebody else.
> 
> I can't help but feel sad though, that my wife slummed it with this guy. It's not like he viewed her as his special someobody - he was sleeping around with at least one, maybe two others while sleeping with my wife. And they did it in his basement apartment (his grandfather's house). Seems so sleazy. As much as I hate my wife right now, she was worth at least a decent hotel to carry out her affair.
> 
> ...


A very mature view sir. I'm glad you're on the road to recovery. Here's to a happy future.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I find it amazing that in her "I actually lied about sleeping with him" note, she then said "she wanted to have a PA with him, but she was too ugly for him."

The fact that she actually thought that would be better is astounding.

I stand by my comments in another thread- Men be on watch the moment you wife gets fake breasts and realize they are not for you. She already snagged you. They are for her to snag the next guys, not you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

And no one gets tested for STDs when they are in monogamous relationship - unless they've been cheated on , or are cheating.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Shaggy: yes, it is amazing that my wife thinks her explanation is credible or makes things better - it just shows how far gone she is. She's done stuff like this (irrational rationalizations) for years Eg - During one of our false R's my wife would say that I shouldn't worry about her when she was out with her friends, she was just the "wingman" for her other desperate friends. 

When I thought it was just an EA, my wife would say that "K***n" had a young girlfriend and that she (my wife) wasn't his type - not even his age group. That was supposed to make me feel better 3 years ago! Turns out my wife tossed her self respect out the window and became this jerk's 2nd or 3rd booty call. In his grandfather's basement! Does it get anymore pathetic than THAT?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Shaggy: yes, it is amazing that my wife thinks her explanation is credible or makes things better - it just shows how far gone she is. She's done stuff like this (irrational rationalizations) for years Eg - During one of our false R's my wife would say that I shouldn't worry about her when she was out with her friends, she was just the "wingman" for her other desperate friends.
> 
> When I thought it was just an EA, my wife would say that "K***n" had a young girlfriend and that she (my wife) wasn't his type - not even his age group. That was supposed to make me feel better 3 years ago! Turns out my wife tossed her self respect out the window and became this jerk's 2nd or 3rd booty call. In his grandfather's basement! Does it get anymore pathetic than THAT?


Pathetic is really the word for it. Machiavelli referred to women like your wife and her friends earlier as 'late bloomers,' and this lit a light bulb for me.

I've never been able to understand how women this age can regress so much, so quickly, essentially to middle-school mean girl behavior, complete with a pack of affirming, nasty friends. But who really wants to live daily with a grown, aging woman with a middle-school mentality? I actually think these women eventually do their H's a favor by making themselves so repugnant that their H's can't stand them anymore. It must do something to assuage the hurt, no?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Yes - I had mentioned that a few of my wife's friends were what I considered to be "late bloomers" - In the sense that as they aged, their peers aged more, and their previously cool husbands became "loser" homebodies, so they embraced the "cougar" mentality of looking good and getting hit on by younger guys. These are girls who were likely bookish introverts during high school. My wife was not an introvert - but was always supporting her Mom, doing well at school, and heavily into athletics. As I mentioned, when we married, she was a virgin. I wasn't - and that was always a bit of an issue with my wife - often asking about my previous girlfriends, in particular my last steady girlfriend before her - (blonde and very good looking - we broke up in University, 3 years before I met my wife). My wife actually destroyed any picture of her from my photo albums when we were first married.

So my wife isn't a typical late bloomer, she's always been attractive and popular - but she was a "good girl". So now, she is really acting out her delayed adolescence. She is in her "bad girl" stage.

I contributed to this a little bit - after our second child, my wife put on a little weight (understandable) and let herself go a little bit. I have to admit, that THAT was the time, I found myself a little less attracted to her (superficial, I know). But instead of looking outside our marriage, what I did was I got her a a set of Pilate's lessons at a fitness club - in the underground PATH system downtown - so she didn't even have to go outside - she could walk from her office underground to the gym - didn't even need a coat in the winter. She loved it, and has been doing it ever since. It really transformed her body - so that she is as trim as she was before babies. I have to admit - physically, she is still incredibly attractive to me. Anyway, sometimes I wonder if I created a monster because she just became so into working out, then started getting laser treatments for her face (to combat spots), etc, etc. It just escalated. This was 10 years ago. But things were still really good between us, or so I thought until about 6 year ago.

THAT is when she started making a set of new friends - and that is when her toxic peer group started forming. All are older (early to mid forties), divorced, separated, or openly having affairs, and they are ALL super-vain, really into themselves and get a hit out of a younger guy complimenting them.

alte Dame: Your middle-school mean girl behaviour analogy is perfect. It is like my wife's pack are FINALLY the alpha females the weren't before and they are taking advantage and enjoying it. They are finally, at age 40 plus, the "cool" kids.

It really is pathetic....


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you should 

1. post all the cheating friends on cheaterville.com
2. out the cheating friends to their spouses. Why help these evil women continue their lies to the poor husbands?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Realized you wife is not rationalizing her cheating (the title), she's rationalizing who she is now, who she become, because she changed, aparently forever, and shows no signs of trying to change.

When she wrote "Call it vanity, mid-life crisis, narcissism - I took the wrong path". The right question is, why do you keep going in this path as you realizes what it is?
Because now (not three years ago, not the three last years, not the day you separated, NOW) is behaving like any vain, narcissistic midled aged woman in crissis behaves.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

No point exposing her friends because they are way ahead of even where my wife is. My wife was the last of the group who was actually married. I know now that they have been actively introducing her to guys for at least one year - while my wife ate her cake - waffling between trying to reconcile and living her fantasy. These are her "good" friends. She has no friends in a stable relationship and has kept her secret life separate from mine for years (most of my friends and most of the family friends are in stable relationships).

The fantasy won. I'm not hanging around to pick up the pieces when my wife realizes the fantasy is just that - a fantasy. The path she has chosen, she may never realize it. I figure she has another 3 or 4 years left of her fantasy lifestyle before age catches up with her. Even if I wanted to, that is far too long to wait and she is damaged goods as far as i am concerned. She'll eventually find somebody - and good luck to them.

Sad and pathetic, but that's how it is and I am accepting it more and more each day.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I still think the lot of them should be posted on cheaterville.com so that the husbands of any new recruits can discover the details of the group their wives are being inducted into.

And for any wives of men, who just happen to be "friends" with these horrible sad women.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

C-man said:


> Yes, my wife has gone through stages of rationalization.
> 
> When I first discovered what I thought was just an EA, my wife said that we had grown apart, and she had to keep it secret because I would get mad if I found out. Yes... yes I would.
> 
> ...



So you 'forced' her to play golf and go clubbing? Can't she hear herself? Sheesh. 
She not only blames you for her affair but is totally unrepentant. :frown2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machiavelli said:


> Don't stop there. Muscle up, get a flat stomach, and you'll be pulling 38 year olds, solid. Make sure your STBXWW finds out about your new conquests, just not from you directly. In this case, the best revenge is womanizing well. With the youngest women possible.


Terrible advise in my opinion. That makes him no better than her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The last time @C-man posted in this thread was 2012. The last time he was on the site was 2016. 

I think we can safely call this a zombie thread.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zombie kitten determines this thread should be closed down.


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