# Marriage advice useless for men?



## Husband2349 (Oct 9, 2017)

Ok. Just an observation. 

Has marriage advice ever really worked for men? 

It just seems so many boards are dedicated to how men have to change to get their wives back. 

But I think many of the women we have chosen are simply not marriage material. I mean women initiate 70 percent of divorces. And for many of these women no matter how you change, they really just want something different. 

Thoughts?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Marriage advice can work for men.

If it is the correct advice for their situation, that is.

Most of the time, from having read WAY too many threads on here, the correct advice is "stop being a wimp and stand up for yourself."

The problem with that advice is that it can be too late to turn things around, or the wife may be unsuitable as you suggest, in which case nothing will work.

But the upside is that if someone does take that advice, even if his current wife won't change her behavior, he will be better off when he dates again.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

From what I've read here, women initiate divorce because men are too lazy, or don't want to be the bad guy, or don't want to be hit financially by splitting their assets.

Heck, one male poster here suggested to someone this weekend to hide assets while he secretly plans to divorce in a few years!

Two good books to help men become better husbands, which have helped my own husband are:

1. No More Mr. Nice Guy (Nice guys aren't really nice...they are manipulative, passive aggressive and resentful.)

2. Hold On To Your Nuts (Non-Negotiable, Unalterable Terms)

I learned of these resources here on TAM. My husband has appreciated them.

I will add one more

3. link: The Ultimate Husband Read their material, and get their CD sets. He understands how women think, and how men have gotten confused on what manhood is.

Men aren't acting like men these days. Feminism has confused men and women on what it is to be a man. Being a man isn't being a bully or an a**hole. These resources will lead men to be confident men of integrity, not sycophantic weaklings around women.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Depends on the Man, what the problem is, and how long the problem has gone on. I think lots of times the guy post because it has gotten to the point that she is done. If she is done she is done no advice is going to change that. It's too late at that point when she has been saying for years - "hello" and he wasn't paying attention. 

Yes lots of people are just not marriage material, that's a fact. A whole bunch of these men looking for advice are also not marriage material. For instance if their wife is emotionally abusing them and they are still pining away for her they are not marriage material in my book. Those kind of men are not going to attract a good women because a good women is going to see them as the pushovers they are. Women want security, a guy who basically just says yes dear to everything is not really a good partner he is a lap dog. Or say your wife has been disrespecting you for your whole dating life, had been showing poor boundaries, she is probably not going to change. Frankly why do you want her. No advice is going to fix that type of person or be helpful to a person who is willing to put up with such crap. 

Or the other way, if you yell and scream, if you don't pitch in and you treat your wife like your mom. If you don't talk to your wife and try to emotionally bond with her, you are taking her for granted and you probably won't have a good marriage. Unless you change posting on a board isn't going to fix that. 

Finally I guess your wife can just go off the deep end. Maybe in that case it's medical. Not sure. Or she can be a total phony or just plan disloyal. Not much advice is going to fix that as well. Once disloyalty happens not much you can do to fix it. Personally not sure why you would want to. 

I think the overall point is there is only so much advice can work for anyone. It's still two people, you can't make someone love you.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> ...


From everything I've seen over the years, I believe the biggest reason more women initiate divorces is because they have the GUTS to refuse to stay in a miserable marriage and will *do* something about it. I've known countless men over the years who've claimed to be miserable beyond description, yet lacked the balls to DO anything about it and just stayed year after year, whining about how unhappy they were. 

Another reason less men file is due to the financial consequences they would experience in a property settlement. So they stay year after year because it's 'cheaper to keep her.'

I've also known many men cheaters whose wives had finally had* enough* of their **** and left them - so again, it was the woman filing because their cheating ass-hats were perfectly content staying married forever. They had a domestic maid at home catering to their every need *and* they got to go out occasionally and get their cheap thrills outside the house and still be home for dinner by 6:00, with wifey being none the wiser. Win/win - for him.

These are just a few of the *justifiable* reasons more women file for divorce than men.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> From everything I've seen over the years, I believe the biggest reason more women initiate divorces is because they have the GUTS to refuse to stay in a miserable marriage and will *do* something about it. I've known countless men over the years who've claimed to be miserable beyond description, yet lacked the balls to DO anything about it and just stayed year after year, whining about how unhappy they were.
> .


I think this is sexist and oversimplifying a very complex issue.

Men don't file for divorce for several reasons:

1. The courts grant women custody of children and child support in over 90% of the cases, this makes it much more difficult for men to move forward, most men can barely scrape together enough for a 1 bedroom apartment after the financial hit of divorce with a family.

2. Women (and I'm generalizing), tend to base their identity on their children, not marriage. Men base their identity on husband, father, provider, protector. Breakdown of a marriage completely decimates a mans identity when it doesn't for a woman, she still has her children.

Men love women, women love children, children love puppies is the saying...

3. I tend to think men are just inherently more able to stick in a bad situation if it means other peoples benefit. Men have been fighting wars and sacrificing their lives for thousands of years for the greater purpose, it's in our DNA to suffer and "stick it out".

4. Men look for a woman who is kind and pretty, women look for a man who has the resources to support her family and most other things are secondary and tertiary. So when times get tough, it's natural for women to look to move on, divorce is a natural process for women looking for support.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I think this is sexist and oversimplifying a very complex issue.
> 
> Men don't file for divorce for several reasons:
> 
> ...


LOL.. you complain that her post is sexist and so you respond with a sexist post. Argh

People are individuals. People of one gender do not behave in a same manner.

Your basic claim is that men are poor, kind victims and woman are money grabbing *****es. Sexist much?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situatnois you know aobut than to generalize about one gender or anohter as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.

Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.

Why? The resean men gave was fear that they will lose too much money and time with their children.

I would think that there are two social changes that are going on that are evening out both of these issues. More than more states are going for 50/50 custody. So neither gender 'wins' when it comes to child custody. The other is that today 70% of married women work. About 50% earn as much or more than their husbands (so much for the idea that women look for men based on money alone). And a 3rd factor is that most divorces happen in the first few years of marriage, meaning that very few diroces end up with anyone paying alimon

I woudl really help to stop spewing stereo types and look at individual cases.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situations you know about than to generalize about one gender or another as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.

Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.

Why? The reason men gave was fear that they will lose too much money and time with their children. I would think that there are two social changes that are going on that are evening out both of these issues. More than more states are going for 50/50 custody. So neither gender 'wins' when it comes to child custody. The other is that today 70% of married women work. About 50% earn as much or more than their husbands (so much for the idea that women look for men based on money alone). And a 3rd factor is that most divorces happen in the first few years of marriage, meaning that very few divorces end up with anyone paying alimony. 

These days, alimony is ordered in only about 15% of the cases. The average alimony is $300 a month. So clearly being taken to the cleaners and this stupid accusation that women are money grabbing is not an issue in most divorces. 
I can only speak for the divorce cases I know of. Most of them have been filed by the woman and most of these the woman had very good reason to file. Here’s a short list…. 

I’ve filed for divorce 3 times.

1)	Husband had an intercranial aneurism, then brain surgery. He suffered brain damage that changed his personality. He became abusive and violent. He also could not work so I supported us on a merger income from working as a clerk at a big retail store. I could not live with the violence so I filed for divorce. He would have stayed in the marriage, not because he was afraid of alimony or losing anything but because he was fine being an abusive, controlling, violent husband… it worked for him.

2)	Married for 14 years. He became mean and violent over the course of our marriage. Cheated with a string of woman. Was just a mean SOB. He too would have been find staying in the marriage. He quit his job as an engineer to go to medical school. So, I supported him through most of the marriage. He too would have stayed in the marriage because it worked for him. He was find with him being an abusive, controlling, violent husband. After all he had a wife who brought in a good income, did all the housework, took care of our child. And he just did whatever he wanted.

3)	Married 12 years. He brought 2 minor children into our marriage. I have a son. He ended up being laid off in the 2nd year of our marriage and never worked again. Turns out that when he was working, he traveled for work a LOT, and he was cheating the whole time with many woman. Once he lost his job he never worked again. Instead he spent all his waking hours playing computer games and surfing the web/porn. I became the sole bread winner and did 100% of household/yard chores and raising his children. I divorced him once his kids were out of high school. He would have stayed in the marriage because having someone who supports him and he can do this own thing worked for him.

Now on to my sisters and some friends.

Sister 1 – she divorced her husband after 25 years, once their son was out of high school, because she could no longer look the other way with him cheating for 25 years…. One mistress after another. She worked through the entire marriage and earned as much as he. So, there was no alimony. Their child was grown so child custody was not an issue. He would have stayed marriage because she was a good wife, and after all he had all the women he wanted on the side.

Sister 2 – Divorced first husband because he was violent used to beat her. After he came home from Viet Nam it was worse. The last straw was when he pulled a gun on her and their young children. Oh, and he was cheating too. He would have stayed in the marriage because he was find with being an angry, violent cheating husband with a good wife at home.

Sister 2 – Divorced 2nd husband because she found out that he had several affairs. He would have stayed in the marriage because, again, he was fine with having a good wife at home and then he could cheat all he wanted. The children were grown by the time they divorced and they were not married long enough for her to get alimony in our state. So clearly child custody, child support and alimony were not what kept him in the marriage.

Sister 2 has not been married to her 3 husband for over 20 years. It's a good marriage and they are happy.

Sister 3 – Divorce 1st husband after about 2 years of marriage. She had a miscarriage. When she came home from the hospital from the miscarriage, her husband was with another woman who lived in the apartment complex. When he came home drunk he wanted sex with my sister (his wife). She said no because she just had a miscarriage. He beat her up and raped her. She ended up pregnant from the rape. The cops did nothing because they said it was just domestic nonsense. She divorced him. He would have stayed in the marriage because he was find with being a violent, drunk who abused his wife. 

Sister 3 – Divorced 2nd husband after about 25 years when she caught him in this 2nd affair. He had no plans to divorce her. He was happy with a wife who earned as much as he and a woman on the side.
A friend – Divorced her husband after 10 years of marriage because he was seriously emotionally abusive and was cheating. They had 3 children under the age of 8. He would not have divorced her because, again, he was ok with an abusive, cheating prick. Now 20 years later. he’s been through 3 more marriages and is still and abusive cheating prick.. and both of his other wives divorced him for it.

Brother 1 – 1st marriage, about 5 years. He cheated. Then she cheated. They divorced. He’s an engineer. She’s a nurse. They both decided to divorce and married their affair partners. They have now both been married to their affair partners for about 30 years.

Brother 2 – 1st marriage lasted 2 years. She was a mean, violent woman. Pulled a knife on him one time when he was carrying their baby daughter. He divorced her. He was not going to stay with a mean, violent woman. He has now been married to his 2nd wife for over 20 years and they are going strong.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situatnois you know aobut than to generalize about one gender or anohter as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.
> 
> Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.
> 
> ...


The divorce lawyer I consulted with in when the fireworks started years ago told me, and I quote: "in this county family court system, the mother will have to be Susan Smith to not be awarded full custody". Alimony and child support, quote "due to the higher incomes men tend to bring in, are correspondingly higher as well".

There's a reason that "fathers rights lawyers" are advertising nonstop on the radio during prime commute time. 

Make custody and child support 50/50 default and no alimony especially for college educated moms like virtually all of my neighbors who choose to stay at home and endure the hardships of arranging play dates, domestic help, and an infinite supply of money and we talk.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> From everything I've seen over the years, I believe the biggest reason more women initiate divorces is because they have the GUTS to refuse to stay in a miserable marriage and will *do* something about it. I've known countless men over the years who've claimed to be miserable beyond description, yet lacked the balls to DO anything about it and just stayed year after year, whining about how unhappy they were.
> 
> Another reason less men file is due to the financial consequences they would experience in a property settlement. So they stay year after year because it's 'cheaper to keep her.'
> 
> ...


I've seen the other side too.

There are also a lot of entitled, selfish women who take advantage of a system that can be slanted in their favor.

I have personally seen over 50 cases of infidelity in the last 20+ years. 5 were men cheaters and the rest were women stepping out on their husbands and then totally destroying their families when confronted.

It really goes both ways and human nature sucks. Women simply have more to gain from a divorce often.

Not to say men don't suck too but their might be more incentive to stay married financially as you have already stated.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> Alimony and child support, quote *"due to the higher incomes men tend to bring in, are correspondingly higher as well"*..


Please explain how this is unfair?

Men "tend" to bring in higher incomes, but if the wife brought in a higher income in any specific divorce, the same "correspondingly" higher alimony and child support would be paid by her.

I'll never understand why people don't seem to understand this or think it is unfair somehow.

Divorce is about the division of shared assets. Whoever has more has to pay the other one to even it out. Like....duh.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

As far as marriage advice?

I have really benefited from marriage advice from certain books as well as specific topics on this board.


I think some men just have a hard time implementing advice or they do need to work on themselves first before any advice can be followed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

john117 said:


> The divorce lawyer I consulted with in when the fireworks started years ago told me, and I quote: "in this county family court system, the mother will have to be Susan Smith to not be awarded full custody". Alimony and child support, quote "due to the higher incomes men tend to bring in, are correspondingly higher as well".
> 
> There's a reason that "fathers rights lawyers" are advertising nonstop on the radio during prime commute time.
> 
> Make custody and child support 50/50 default and no alimony especially for college educated moms like virtually all of my neighbors who choose to stay at home and endure the hardships of arranging play dates, domestic help, and an infinite supply of money and we talk.


In my state, custody has been 50/50 by default for very 20 years. I divorced my son's father in 1996. At that time it was already a long standing law in this state.

Alimony is not even considered until a couple is married for 20 years. For example I could not get any alimony because we had not been married 20 years. Not only that, even though I supported him through medical school and residence, and by the time we divorce, he was in a medical practice and make much more than I did, I could not even get compensation for the thousands upon thousands I paid towards his medical school tuition/books/fees and supporting him during medial school.

Again, alimony is only paid in 15% of all divorces and the average alimony payment is $300 a month.

I thought your wife has some kind of high paid job. Why would she even qualify for alimony?

Alimony is mostly for SHAM/Ds who have not worked in 20 years and have no way to support themselves. And even with that, most courts today expect that the person who receives alimony will become self supporting at some point.

If a person does not want to pay alimony, then marry a person who earns about what you do and don't go for the SAHM/D thing.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Husband2349 said:


> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> Yes, it has worked for me and my marriage.
> 
> ...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

First, we're not all lucky to live in man friendly states. Anecdotal evidence from Wisconsin, new Jersey, and our very own North Carolina cub reporter seem to suggest that it varies wildly. Which in itself creates an unfair situation.

Second, averages don't mean much if you're married to a high earner. Or a former high earner as we've discussed here.

Finally, fairness is relative. Nearly every sahm mom around me has a college degree. So, after a few years of enjoying her McMansion lifestyle and a couple kids, she has great financial incentive to file and collect substantial alimony and child support (in many states) which could be higher than what she could make otherwise. 

In the days of no fault she dies not need to show cause, or cause can easily be fabricated.

I don't question the fairness part. But the asymmetry of it all creates a phenomenal incentive if you live in the right state.

Wife's cousin is the poster boy for this. It's a story that is too over the top to be true, but I know the guy personally. 

- high earner, mid six figures aerospace executive, married to a younger woman, one kid.

- wife refuses sex and puts on a fair amount of weight.

- wife squirrels away a serious amount of money that was to go for all kinds of things.

- wife lets the guy know that it's ok if he looks around

- guy looks around and promptly gets nailed by wife's gumshoe PI

- after 10 years of marriage she collects a spectacular amount of money including the house. 

- guy has mild heart attack and is hospitalized from stress.

- guy loses his job due to cancelled government project.

- guy is in Texas married to his therapist 

- wife loses weight, hires personal trainer, hits dating scene

Not everyone acts this way, but there's reason to be concerned.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situatnois you know aobut than to generalize about one gender or anohter as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.
> 
> Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.
> 
> ...


I'm not buying the stats or the mentality here.......


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situations you know about than to generalize about one gender or another as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.
> 
> Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.
> 
> ...


Would you mind telling me the ages of you and your siblings when the first marriages took place.
Do you think it is a coincidence that so many of your family have divorced.Were your own parents divorced.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> ...


It always helps to voice out one's woes and get feedback, regardless of advice. It helps to both clear your mind as well as examine what's on the table. This forum has helped me immensely over the years through marriage, divorce and self-awareness. So I wouldn't say it's useless, in my case at least.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> In a thread like this it's probably better to talk about situatnois you know aobut than to generalize about one gender or anohter as though all, or most, people of a gender behave in the same manner.
> 
> Studies have shown that when people live together, and are not married, both men and women break up at about the same rate. But with marriage, women are 20% more likely to file for divorce than men.
> 
> ...


We have standard 50/50 co parenting in Aus. unless either parents is not willing or not suitable to have their kids 50/50.
No alimony here at all.
Settlements are usually 50/50 unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Even still we have men's rights groups spouting horrid vitriol towards women, their ex's. There are some that simply cannot go through the process without bitterness and quite often these men are the ones of the attitude that ALL money earned is theirs if their wife was a SAHM or if she earnt less than him. Fortunately the legal system acts fairly regardless of gender when it comes to financial settlements and will protect the kids foremost as well as the parents where needed. The vast majority here do not end up in front of a Judge and will negotiate via mediation for settlement. The ones that do fight end up paying big dollars for Solicitors and the same outcome as if they had of done it without Lawyers, there is a formula the Courts follow simple as that. It is fair and equitable.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And that's why the typical Aussie can't fathom what the typical American has to deal with in such cases.

We're all familiar with Copper Top's case. I have a case that makes his look Aussie by comparison. After 6 kids, non educated homeschooling mom decides she wants to party. Files for divorce in Florida, and the stuff she got away with - including a live in boyfriend while collecting alimony and child support - is blood curdling.

My friend is my age and has exactly zero assets to his name. Zero. And has to work contract because he would earn less if he was paid salaried.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I don't see the problem as useless marriage advice... I see the bigger problem as not enough quality pre-marriage advice.

Marriage is easy, divorce is hard.

Reverse them and I wonder if the divorce rate would drop.

I really have no idea if it would... just a thought.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> Would you mind telling me the ages of you and your siblings when the first marriages took place.
> Do you think it is a coincidence that so many of your family have divorced.Were your own parents divorced.


My parents were married for about 25 years, until my father's death.

I was 22 at my first marriage, 35 at my second and 50 at my 3rd.
1st sister was about 25 when she marriage.
2nd sister was 21 at first marriage. about 30 at second.
3rd sister was about 17 at first marriage and about 30 at second marriage.

We were brought up in a very protected environment and had no idea that people were like this. So we were not prepared for life in the real world. That's about what it boils down to. When my father died, I was 21. We had to move back to the USA and got thrown into an environment that was so different from the one what we grew up in.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> In my state, custody has been 50/50 by default for very 20 years. I divorced my son's father in 1996. At that time it was already a long standing law in this state.
> 
> Alimony is not even considered until a couple is married for 20 years. For example I could not get any alimony because we had not been married 20 years. Not only that, even though I supported him through medical school and residence, and by the time we divorce, he was in a medical practice and make much more than I did, I could not even get compensation for the thousands upon thousands I paid towards his medical school tuition/books/fees and supporting him during medial school.
> 
> ...


That is a much better state to get divorced in than Illinois. Given the new alimony formula that went into place in 2015...Even as badly as I got screwed, I got pretty damned lucky by the standard in in 2012, and positively won the lottery as compared to 2015. I think my first advice to anyone marrying and living in Illinois is don't have kids, and as soon as there is any level of income disparity between husband and wife, the higher earner should divorce immediately.

I did quite a lot of case law research in Illinois in prep for my divorce, and have continued to do so as various issues have come up post divorce, and there is nothing equitable in divorce here. While the language may be gender neutral, in practice, the decisions are anything but.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> *Has marriage advice ever really worked for men? *
> 
> ...


 @Husband2349 *by describing someone that always wants something different, it is as if you are describing a symptom of depression.* In the event you are dealing with a spouse suffering from depression, then marriage advice will likely NOT help. 

While you can try to help someone with depression, ultimately the solution has to come from within. No amount of change on your behalf will solve anything. 

My advice for you @Husband2349 is to try and make sure you wife is eating healthy, getting exercise, and sleeping healthy. While I've never heard this mentioned, I also think it is important to get some sun, so try and find some exercise the two of you can enjoy together that is outdoors. 

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

Am I the only one who mis-read the title as Marriage Advice for Useless Men? Whoa, that made me do a double take here...


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

I agree that most advice is to man up. I see too many feminized men, and what woman wants a girly man to call her husband? Be a man, that's what makes you attractive to women. Don't be a jerk, or a mysongist but be strong and confident. Work on yourself. It's true that a lot of women aren't marriage material, don't marry a woman who doesn't meet your standards and do not stay with your wife if she does not meet your standards. What kind of man would settle for less? 

This might sound macho, because it is, and it is not PC but here is my advice: get angry when it's appropriate. Make her afraid to cross lines you've set. Set boundaries and hold them. Example, I have a good marriage, I trust my wife. Several years ago She went to dinner with some women, and after they went to a club. I told her in the past I do not want for her to go to clubs. I saw on social media they went to a club. I called her and yelled at her and cursed at her for going. She said they all went unplanned and she just went along and nothing was wrong with it. I got angry and told her that I will not be married to a woman who goes out to night clubs while I sit at home with the kids. She came home and I yelled at her again, I let her know where I stood. No more clubs. This past summer she had a girls dinner and was picked up by another woman. My wife came home in a taxi. I asked her what happened to your ride? She said they all wanted to go to a club and I told them I don't go to clubs without my husband, she said some of them laughed and she was offended that they would not respect what works for us so she took a taxi home. I gave her a big hug and kiss and told her how much I appreciate her being so faithful to us. 
Get angry guys, make rules. She gets to make rules, too. I do not go to clubs or strip clubs. We set curfews for each other on nights out alone and our phones and social media and email are open to each other. Make it work guys.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I think that one of the things we tend to forget is that sometimes "get divorced" is THE BEST marriage advice one can get. I am sure I am in the minority here, but it seems as though the expectation of "marriage advice" is to save the marriage, when in reality simply getting out of a bad situation probably is the best course of action for both sides.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> I agree that most advice is to man up. I see too many feminized men, and what woman wants a girly man to call her husband? Be a man, that's what makes you attractive to women. Don't be a jerk, or a mysongist but be strong and confident. Work on yourself. It's true that a lot of women aren't marriage material, don't marry a woman who doesn't meet your standards and do not stay with your wife if she does not meet your standards. What kind of man would settle for less?
> 
> This might sound macho, because it is, and it is not PC but here is my advice: get angry when it's appropriate. Make her afraid to cross lines you've set. Set boundaries and hold them. Example, I have a good marriage, I trust my wife. Several years ago She went to dinner with some women, and after they went to a club. I told her in the past I do not want for her to go to clubs. I saw on social media they went to a club. I called her and yelled at her and cursed at her for going. She said they all went unplanned and she just went along and nothing was wrong with it. I got angry and told her that I will not be married to a woman who goes out to night clubs while I sit at home with the kids. She came home and I yelled at her again, I let her know where I stood. No more clubs. This past summer she had a girls dinner and was picked up by another woman. My wife came home in a taxi. I asked her what happened to your ride? She said they all wanted to go to a club and I told them I don't go to clubs without my husband, she said some of them laughed and she was offended that they would not respect what works for us so she took a taxi home. I gave her a big hug and kiss and told her how much I appreciate her being so faithful to us.
> Get angry guys, make rules. She gets to make rules, too. I do not go to clubs or strip clubs. We set curfews for each other on nights out alone and our phones and social media and email are open to each other. Make it work guys.


Like all advice, yours is in no way an answer for everyone. That is the problem with seeking advice from online forums, we are all just armchair advisors.

If my husband yelled at me and treated me the way you treat your wife we would be divorced.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> I agree that most advice is to man up. I see too many feminized men, and what woman wants a girly man to call her husband? Be a man, that's what makes you attractive to women. Don't be a jerk, or a mysongist but be strong and confident. Work on yourself. It's true that a lot of women aren't marriage material, don't marry a woman who doesn't meet your standards and do not stay with your wife if she does not meet your standards. What kind of man would settle for less?
> 
> This might sound macho, because it is, and it is not PC but here is my advice: get angry when it's appropriate. Make her afraid to cross lines you've set. Set boundaries and hold them. Example, I have a good marriage, I trust my wife. Several years ago She went to dinner with some women, and after they went to a club. I told her in the past I do not want for her to go to clubs. I saw on social media they went to a club. I called her and yelled at her and cursed at her for going. She said they all went unplanned and she just went along and nothing was wrong with it. I got angry and told her that I will not be married to a woman who goes out to night clubs while I sit at home with the kids. She came home and I yelled at her again, I let her know where I stood. No more clubs. This past summer she had a girls dinner and was picked up by another woman. My wife came home in a taxi. I asked her what happened to your ride? She said they all wanted to go to a club and I told them I don't go to clubs without my husband, she said some of them laughed and she was offended that they would not respect what works for us so she took a taxi home. I gave her a big hug and kiss and told her how much I appreciate her being so faithful to us.
> Get angry guys, make rules. She gets to make rules, too. I do not go to clubs or strip clubs. We set curfews for each other on nights out alone and our phones and social media and email are open to each other. Make it work guys.


I agree with all of this but you don't have to get angry you just have to make it uncomfortable. It needs to be more uncomfortable to do it then to not do it. I say the same for women too. Bottom line is there has to be things you are willing to not put up with even to the point of ending it. Then it's up to your spouse to decide if they want to deal with it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> From everything I've seen over the years, I believe the biggest reason more women initiate divorces is because they have the GUTS to refuse to stay in a miserable marriage and will *do* something about it. I've known countless men over the years who've claimed to be miserable beyond description, yet lacked the balls to DO anything about it and just stayed year after year, whining about how unhappy they were.
> 
> Another reason less men file is due to the financial consequences they would experience in a property settlement. So they stay year after year because it's 'cheaper to keep her.'
> 
> ...


And there's another reason why women might initiate a divorce. Women have support networks, men have drinking buddies.

Women get good advice, men just get to paste a fake smile on and say: "Yeah, buddy. Everything's copacetic."


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I guess this isn't going to be any big surprise, but the book I recommend most for men is *no more mr nice guy*. Wehther it helps depends entirely on whether you work it. Those men who just skim through it and say "meh" dont get any benefit.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Not going to name names (@EleGirl), but someone's family could probably get a group rate for a course on how to fix their broken pickers. 

Every state in the US has their own laws and court system. This is one of those areas where people need to educate themselves before walking down the aisle or deciding where to relocate. Copper could have saved himself a ****load of agony if he had done his homework before moving his wife(?) to North Carolina.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Not really sure where this thread is going, but it is safe to say that there are horrible husbands AND horrible wives out there. Both could benefit from marriage advice. Heck, even people in good marriages could always benefit from advice. There are people who are simply not marriage material, doesn't make them a bad person, just something that is not a fit for them.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Not going to name names (@EleGirl), but someone's family could probably get a group rate for a course on how to fix their broken pickers.
> 
> Every state in the US has their own laws and court system. This is one of those areas where people need to educate themselves before walking down the aisle or deciding where to relocate. Copper could have saved himself a ****load of agony if he had done his homework before moving his wife(?) to North Carolina.


Haha..this sounds limke my H's family at the moment. Older brother cheated on wife, they are supposed to be in R but they are both so angry and bitter. Young step brother's wife packed her stuff and disappeared one day in early spring. He thinks that they have a common law marriage....there is no common he NYS..so she has everything in her name....took all the money but left behind her 10 years old d. His cousin's husband is trying get her to sign over her business to him...he has a mistress with a 5 year old son. A neice who wants to get married now to a loser without a HS diploma. A nephew who got a girl pregnant. 

When it rains it pours. I think everyone can do with some bit of help...by a freaking psychologist and leave my
husband alone. I think woman can just be hardheaded as men and don't listen well...and know the laws in your state.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Not really sure where this thread is going, but it is safe to say that there are horrible husbands AND horrible wives out there. Both could benefit from marriage advice. Heck, even people in good marriages could always benefit from advice. There are people who are simply not marriage material, doesn't make them a bad person, just something that is not a fit for them.


I think for a lot of people, the best advice is "Don't get married."


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I think for a lot of people, the best advice is "Don't get married."


But if you are going to get married, make damned sure that you are an honest, self-aware, fully functional, mature, independent, emotionally healthy, adult. Then don't marry someone who isn't the same. Then don't stop being that person, and don't accept it if your partner stops being that person. 

Honestly, a lot of people shouldn't be married because they aren't emotionally healthy and mature enough to be in a long-term relationship. They do things that aren't healthy. They accept - or are even really attracted to - things that aren't healthy. Then they are somehow surprised when the relationship either isn't healthy and they're miserable, or ends because they didn't even notice it wasn't healthy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

People change, tho.... The confident, curious, and outgoing woman of 25 or 30 has a decent chance of turning into a wraith at 50... As do you.

The advice I have is simple. Look at your partner's parents and culture. Make sure you understand that and you're ok with it. Not marry based on a few dinners and like.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> ...


Imagine a few men are having difficulty with their cars. 

One has been working hard on his car, and really come to understand the intricacies, but it is just a terrible, unreliable car.

A second one is an idiot who realizes he had the parking brake on the whole time. He takes it off, thinks he is a genius and starts telling everyone about his great insight.

The equivalent in marriage terms is a hard working dedicate husband in a struggling relationship will not shout advice. An idiot, whose marital problems resolved as soon as he stopped being a douche will tell everyone about it. 

You have an image of women generally being horrible. As wives are likely to moan about their husbands and boyfriends, a woman who has had a bad run has absolutely no way of knowing she has had a bad run. All she will hear is how useless men are, even from those with wonderful husbands. Post divorce, I started dating and the expectations of most women I doubted were astoundingly high and confirmed that husbands must have been pretty decent. But, the ones who have not had the good experiences are not likely to be on the dating circuit and you would be surprised how many ill-treated women come on this forum assuming that men just generally are lazy and insensitive.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> And there's another reason why women might initiate a divorce. Women have support networks, men have drinking buddies.
> 
> Women get good advice, men just get to paste a fake smile on and say: "Yeah, buddy. Everything's copacetic."


You need to get proper friends.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> She'sStillGotIt said:
> 
> 
> > From everything I've seen over the years, I believe the biggest reason more women initiate divorces is because they have the GUTS to refuse to stay in a miserable marriage and will *do* something about it. I've known countless men over the years who've claimed to be miserable beyond description, yet lacked the balls to DO anything about it and just stayed year after year, whining about how unhappy they were.
> ...


Spot on. Men need support networks of their own. And more importantly, they need support networks away from women.

Ladies, we love ya. But we also need to get the heck away from you sometimes. And if we need to talk about some problems in our (men's) lives, your presence isn't always wanted or helpful.

Women talking about men's problems in marriage is like men talking about childbirth. Ladies don't want to relate with men in that situation, they want to relate with other women.

Likewise is also true.

Marriage advice for men can be helpful, as long as one minds the source. I would never pick up a Cosmo and read an article by a woman on how men can improve their marriages. Everything we've been told by women on how to make our wives happy and get more sex has proven demonstrably false, because I did all that and it only made things worse.

By comparison, my male therapist + Robert Glover = far more success in relationships. And a hell of a lot more sex.

Women have a powerful female support network. Men need a powerful male support network.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

It's really simple, women get the kids 90% of the time which basically gets them access to the family home and half her husbands take-home salary for the next 25 years. The only thing the woman loses is the fella she doesn't like anymore, the man loses his wife, children, home, financial security and identity. If the man could kick his wife who cut off sex and gained 40 lbs to the curb and lose nothing else you would see men file a hell of a lot more.

When looking objectively it's not tough to figure out why men file less even if they're more miserable in the marriage. They simply stand to lose a lot more than women in a divorce by the nature of who is granted custody of the children. Women are also granted maintenance a lot more than men even in similar financial situations.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> If the man could kick his wife who cut off sex and gained 40 lbs to the curb and lose nothing else you would see men file a hell of a lot more.


Lol.
IF we were to ever see automatic 50/50 custody nation wide and equal division of assets, then we would probably see more than just a hell of a lot more men file, it may very well be an explosion.

Just because 1 or a few states have finally removed themselves from the 1930's, doesn't mean the rest of the states are not still stuck there. As far as I'm concerned, there should *NEVER* be a stay at home anything, woman or man. It's a fools folly. And yes, not only am I a fool, but a damned fool.


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## WorldsApart (May 5, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I would think that there are two social changes that are going on that are evening out both of these issues. More than more states are going for 50/50 custody. So neither gender 'wins' when it comes to child custody. The other is that today 70% of married women work. About 50% earn as much or more than their husbands (so much for the idea that women look for men based on money alone). And a 3rd factor is that most divorces happen in the first few years of marriage, meaning that very few diroces end up with anyone paying alimon
> 
> I woudl really help to stop spewing stereo types and look at individual cases.


I found a few really interesting links:
https://www.thespruce.com/us-child-support-statistics-2997994
And the article's source material: https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/P60-255.pdf

It's fascinating that a few statistics are glossed right over: One of every six custodial parents (17.5 percent) were fathers.

Furthermore, of the men who have primary custody (17.5%), 31.4% had child support agreements. (52.3% of women had an agreement)

So clearly there is a bias towards Women in family courts, and hand waving it away by saying change is coming doesn't help deal with the reality that is present right now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Some people should just not get married. I think the best thing we could do is get rid of the Disney'fication of marriage. It is not happily ever after, it can be but it's really more like being on a team or working on a big project together. Some people are just not mature enough or have the stuff it takes to live that way, some people just don't want to live that way, they don't figure that out until they are married though. And a lot of people are just selfish broken *******s and should pretty much be send off to live on a desert island or something.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

As someone who strives to be the best husband possible (with only moderate success), yes, I have learned a lot from marriage advice here and elsewhere and have applied it when I can. Every relationship is unique, and advice of this type can only go so far in helping you.

Some people are simply not wired to take advice of any kind. Many seek others for advice too often. In the middle are the people like me who can usually figure it out on our own, but we can listen to good advice and apply it as needed. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Husband2349 said:


> It just seems so many boards are dedicated to how men have to change to get their wives back.
> 
> But I think many of the women we have chosen are simply not marriage material. I mean women initiate 70 percent of divorces. And for many of these women no matter how you change, they really just want something different.
> 
> Thoughts?


My thoughts are you are enlightened beyond your years... Most women today are serial monogamists and after 5 years or so they don't maintain interest and moving on is easy for them.

I will say that women are much better at working towards fixing issues they're having, and men typically sit in misery and mask things by keeping busy, working, or with alcohol. men can't show weakness, or ask for help, or acknowledge failure. This keeps men down.

Ultimately women usually have more options post divorce, they maintain custody of children, keep the majority of assets because the kids need a home with the custodial parent (dude is the odd man out), reliable car, and mother not drowning in debt. And they retain a significant portion of the mans earnings for the foreseeable future. It's like a breakup but they get cash and prizes on exit.


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## Bonkers (Nov 26, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I think this is sexist and oversimplifying a very complex issue.
> 
> Men don't file for divorce for several reasons:
> 
> ...


Totally nailed it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I can't help it - every time I read this thread title it reads as 'Marriage Advice for Useless Men'.:scratchhead:


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> ...


Advice, sure sometimes. Often a person is just checking out of the marriage due to communications reasons, or some dunderheaded behavior you did. Sounding that all out on a board can change the way you approch the spouse, and that can have big impact.

As far as cheating spouses....us not much we are going to tell you can fix THAT. You just need to be strong and do the 180, do not accept gaslighting, etc. The board can only give you minor support then


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Husband2349 said:


> But I think many of the women we have chosen are simply not marriage material. I mean women initiate 70 percent of divorces.


You know *why*? I'll be painfully honest.

Most men don't have the balls to do it. Yup, I said it.

They'll cling to a miserable marriage like grim death. Maybe it's their sense of responsibility to family, maybe they don't want to look like a failure if they file, a lot of them are so used to having someone wipe their asses for them that they wouldn't know HOW to live on their own, and some simply subscribe to the theory that it's 'cheaper to keep her' because they don't want to split their assets at 45 or 50 years old. There are MANY men in lousy marriages who simply won't do what it takes to get the hell out.

But a woman will.

A PRIME example of men staying in miserable marriages is my old friend who was married at 18. His story is not unique in any way. He was a serial cheater their entire marriage, and all he did was whine and complain how utterly miserable he was. That's all I ever heard from him for years and years and years. Yet never ONCE did he do anything about it. Not once.

After 20 years, his wife was done with his cheating ass. DONE. And rightly so. She told him she waned a divorce. Handed it to him on a silver platter. Gave him the 'get out of jail free' card he'd been whining he wanted for YEARS. And what did the dumb-ass do? He BEGGED her to stay together. _*Begged *_her. She told him no, she wanted out. He had no choice but to go along with it.

Two thoughts - as usual, it was the WOMAN who filed, not the man. Was she supposed to just stay with this serial cheating ass-wipe *forever* just so people like you wouldn't be able to judge her for supposedly being 'unfit for marriage?' And secondly, do you think she's the ONLY one in the whole United States who had a valid reason but all the rest of the women who file are simply _"unfit for marriage_?" 

Truth is, she's *not *the exception to the rule.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> I can't help it - every time I read this thread title it reads as 'Marriage Advice for Useless Men'.:scratchhead:



I did, too! Hahahahahaha


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> It just seems so many boards are dedicated to how men have to change to get their wives back.


Over the years, I have seen advice for men and women. It does seem somewhat more prevalent for men to think that life can change around them but that they should be able to remain the same _as they see it_. The truth is that as things change over time, they do too. Maybe become less fun and spontaneous. And fail to change in adult ways like partnering in adulthood and responsibility. Someone who thinks that life can go on around them and that shouldn't "have to" change, adapt and grow is going to lose, potentially including one's wife or husband.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You know *why*? I'll be painfully honest.
> 
> Most men don't have the balls to do it. Yup, I said it.
> 
> ...


Different behavior, same story for a woman very close to me. He has the daffy gall to act surprised and claim Why didn't you tell me you were unhappy? What the hell did he think she had been saying for the last _17 years_??!!??


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Husband2349 said:


> Ok. Just an observation.
> 
> Has marriage advice ever really worked for men?
> 
> ...


Yes, marriage advise works for men. My W is 100% marriage material. I on the other hand was a 30% marriage material. Many failings as a H. Great provider and dad. Truly sucked at the husband part. Marriage advise on how to be a H to my W helped my marriage 100 fold. I often wish I could go back and start over being what I was supposed to be.


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