# Wife spies on me, but is very secretive of her own stuff



## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

I have been married a while now. I won't give years as to remain semi-anonymous. I have been faithful to my wife since we have been married. At first, I just thought she was snooping on me occasionally. I am very detail oriented. I would notice a program on my phone seemed to have opened. I might notice my search history had an old result at the top.

Then, my wife started randomly asking questions about things she saw in my browser history. I can accept that. I mean, they are out of context, so it isn't fair to bring them up... still, I don't mind someone clearing the air and caring. After a while though, it starts getting annoying. You start feeling cautious about what you might accidentally look at or do that seems suspicious.

I do not care about any of that. I am a better anti-spy than anyone could possibly spy on me anyway. So, I started clearing all history and leaving no record of anything I did. I start noticing that the settings magically change every now and then. So, I installed a program to monitor my computer. It was disturbing. I can see her changing settings and snooping all around. It was way more involved than I thought. She was logging into accounts and looking at any possible detail. Still, what bothers me most is that she keeps beating a dead horse by trying to enable settings to keep history. It is the first thing that I check, so it hasn't worked in a long time.

I do not get why she won't just leave it alone? Further, why won't she just come out and talk to me? I don't hide anything when asked. That part bothers me. This next part is what bothers me the most. Her suspicion got me curious. I started looking into her stuff to even the field. Needless to say, she is not as open as me. She decided to lock her phone when she first thought I looked at it. I have nothing to hide, so I don't worry about mine. I just leave it out with no locks on it. She knows all of my passwords, but she started rotating hers constantly.

When she thought that I might have solved one, she gets a new one. She really keeps escalating. Honestly, it is an unfair game, since I just like puzzles. I don't even care what is on the phone or any of her accounts. I just like the game and do so because she is spying on me. I just cannot figure out why she would spy on me, but then be so hypocritical to want her own privacy in all of the areas that she invades mine?

I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that she is doing anything like cheating. Although, she goes to great extents to hide her messages. I have caught her lying to me a few times about where she was or what she was doing because of them, but nothing about those lies involved a situation where it seemed like she was cheating or anything. They seemed like trivial lies with no real reason to make them. In fact, I didn't even call her out on them. I just remember that I caught them. So, she doesn't even know that I am aware. 

Usually, I find these lies when she thinks that I can't access her information, so she isn't planting them. When she is paranoid, she just deleted anything right away. The odd part is that she picks and chooses. She will delete certain lines of a message set or only a few conversations. Sure, I shouldn't bother or spy back anyway. I only started because I didn't like her doing it to me. I just don't understand why she is so secretive and why she would lie/hide things like she is up to something? Especially if she is so fast to be always watching me and trying to find some sort of dirt?

The worst part is that she lies about looking. If I look, I say that I got into your stuff. Time to change it again and laugh. She has logged into my accounts, read messages, got mad at me, then had a fight about them. She will then tell me she didn't do it. She thought it was her browser or it was her account. I must have left it logged in... somehow she didn't notice and just happened to load and open messages without every seeing it wasn't her's and read through them without knowing. Same issue... Why is she lying about things like this? I am very alarmed at how often she is lying to me about little issues or being extra secretive without cause.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Well, I finished asking this question. I went to her and asked if she was into my stuff. I explained that my settings magically changed while I was at work. I said that it seems to happen every now and then. She insists that she has nothing to do with it. I know full well that she does. I just cannot figure out this lying to me. I sat there and gave her every chance to just admit to it.

As I think about it, the issue is beyond just this stuff. She will lend money to her family and tell me she is broke, but refuse to admit where the money went. Now, she could say, or any of you, that she thought that I might get mad. The truth is, however, that she knows I will be equally annoyed that she doesn't have any money to contribute. Where it went is really a non-issue, so nothing is gained by lying to me.

It feels like she thinks that she is tricking me somehow always, but doesn't understand that I am not tricked or fooled. She just moves along and doesn't feel the need to ever address the issues.


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## Forever Me (May 20, 2013)

She is either up to something bad that she doesn't want you to know about, or she has been very badly damaged by a previous relationship and doesn't know how to trust anyone. 

Sounds like she needs her own counseling, as well as couples, in order to figure this out. Without honesty, I don't know how a relationship can survive.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Your wife seems to have serious control issues , she might be a control freak.
The relationship does not sound healthy and you are walking on eggshells because you are under constant " surveillance" and threat by her.

She _is_ controlling you.

She may or may not be cheating , but she seems to have an urge to control you through her spying, whilst she's uber secretive.
Personal insecurity and low self esteem might be the cause of this type of narcissistic , controlling behavior.

Here's a link to a website that would give you a clearer insight.

http://www.shrink4men.com/2013/10/19/in-his-own-words-narcissistic-woman/

You are with an emotionally abusive , controlling woman.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

It seems to me you both need your heads knocked together. In a marriage there has to some trust and yours seems to have none. I doubt very much if you told us how many years you wouldnt remain anonymous. If your wife is such a good 'snooper' she will know you came on here. 

Do you both work. Do you have kids. When you say lend money do you mean give or do you get it back and is it large amounts. 

Some people are born liars. Others like to feel they can fool and trick people although they rarely succeed. You have to somehow give them and let them think they are getting it to keep them happy.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

When we first married my wife took the "what’s yours is mine" idea a bit far and would open my mail, go through my drawers, check my bank balance, go through my wallet on a regular basis.

Rather than play a "tit 4 tat" game of escalation I sat down with my wife and talked about how this made me feel and in the end we found a level of trust / privacy that we are both happy with. 

OP do you feel able to sit down and talk this through with your wife or if either of you find that hard could you not write her a letter. Surly taking positive action to address the situation has to be better for you both than these ongoing IT battles.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Your wife sounds like a control freak. Also has too much time on her hands.


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Sometimes my husband and I snoop on each other out of boredom ("There's nothing on TV and his/her computer's open, I'll see what he/she's been up to"). We don't hide any passwords or emails or texts and tell each other about it. :scratchhead: I don't think fiddling with computer histories and retaliation snooping is going to do anything but escalate the problem. Why don't you two get together and talk about this?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Sounds like game playing to me. Sit her down and tell her you know what she's doing, tell her how you know. 
Then suggest marriage counseling, and tell her it seems the marriage is in trouble and falling by the way side. 
If she won't go or listen then you have some decisions to make. No one needs to spend their marriage without
any kind of trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

rundownandtired said:


> As I think about it, the issue is beyond just this stuff.


This.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Just seems like low self esteem to me.

I'll be honest, I'm protective of my privacy - but not to the point where I change passwords and lock everything down. I know my wife snoops occasionally (though not at the level that yours does), and it bothers me. I have nothing to hide that would affect our marriage, and anything she could find that might be embarrassing, I would own up to if questioned.

If I were you, I'd take her by the hand, bring her to your computer, and go through your browser history, your email, your facebook, etc. with her right there. Show her you are comfortable with her seeing this stuff and that there's nothing to hide. Keep your browser history, and don't change passwords. Let her develop her own sense of trust.

She may feel like you DO have something to hide, simply by your reaction to her snooping. Making it so the browser history isn't saved may make her wonder what you were doing, even if you weren't doing anything at all.

My wife and I know each other's passwords for everything that has one. We don't know these things because we asked outright for each others passwords. They've just come out over time. We have one laptop, and an iPad that we share. And I'm the only one with a cell phone (no password) in the house.

BUT, I will occasionally check to make sure she hasn't changed her email or Facebook password. That is the extent of my snooping, and I won't read anything - just check the passwords.

My reasoning behind that is that my ex wife and I knew each other's passwords for everything, too. Then one day all of hers changed. I'm sure you can figure out the rest of the story.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

If I changed the word snooping to any other destructive scenario you would see how absolutely stupid this is. 
My wife likes to yell at me, so I decided to start yelling at her.
My wife likes to sleep around, so I decided to do that to her.
My wife spends too much of our money, so I decided to do the same.
My wife snoops and lies to me, so I decided to do it, and I am better at it, and I do enjoy the game, but this is her fault.
Really?

Move on from her, as she should do the same. You too are both toxic to marriages and need to learn why you are wired this way through IC, as does she. MC is a suggestion, but whats the point..? That would be a lot of money to sit in a different room and be lied to. She is a controlling, manipulative person. You are turning into a person you won't like at all, you are not a CIA operative, yet you seem to enjoy the feeling of being superior to her at this. It is strange, and destructive. Take your part of it, and stop. 
Force a change in her as well.
Change your passwords.
When confronted, have a list of her accounts and tell her you are happy to, but she is to do the same and when you notice hers are changed you are going to change yours. Tell her to write them down, now.
Game over. 
Then start her in counseling and explain and be honest with her in MC. Tell her and the counselor what you have found she has done, and what you are guilty of as well. Be honest with your W, demand nothing less from her. If you do not get and give 100% to one another, there is no further point to this relationship.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

And on a darker note: many cheaters will accuse the faithful spouse of the exact same thing that they're doing-sort of a "beat them to the punch" type of thing, or a way to justify their shady dealings. She may be looking for incriminating evidence against you so that when this all blows up, she can turn the tide against you, so as to look like the victim in everything.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks for all of the responses. I'll try to address them. @caribbean man, I think that you are right in some regards, but the link doesn't sound at all like my relationship. She is always talking her self up, which I was worried about. She is always making compliments to herself that are really only appropriately made from another person to her. At one point, which this is hard to share without being too specific, but I will try... She made a statement to an old guy friend that I was very bothered with. I had to sit down and have a talk with her.

He had said that he had the best wife because of something that she did. My wife goes over the line and suggests that he doesn't have the best wife because he isn't married to her. I tried to explain to her how many levels of wrong this statement crossed into, but she could not recognize it is a negative thing and viewed my sitting her down later as me being picky with her or blowing it out of proportion.

I explained that I did not care that it sounded like hitting on him. I assured her that I had no thoughts of such an issue, but that it could appear that way. I asked her to imagine if I had said that to a friends wife. I would be in a fist fight with her husband later from such a statement. My main point to get across though is that it was pushing the limits of being creepy to say such a thing.

@accept1, you might be right. I'll just say over ten years. We both work currently. It has only been that way a year or two. She worked on and off in the past. She was often looking for work or pursuing training for work. We have no kids, but not for lack of trying. When I say give, I mean small amounts. We keep our money separate. She will not let me combine her money with mine or be upfront with it ever. I am much more responsible, as I have every bill in my name and pay it. 

I honestly cannot trust her with my accounts, especially if she won't be upfront with her small bits of money. She doesn't want to be accountable for it. She doesn't want to have to ask me for it and justify her spending. We don't make enough that she can just liberally withdraw at her whim, as she has always had trouble overspending and neglecting bills. It is a hard situation to mesh between us other than to stay separate on finances.

Don't get me wrong though, years went by that I had to go out and buy her basic stuff because she was broke. She still gets the best of both worlds by asking for my money when hers runs out. She just doesn't want to put hers into that pot when she is making money. If she does make money, she always finds somewhere to spend it first, rather than tell me about it.

@wiltshireman, I think that I addressed this point in my post, but I'll elaborate. I have talked to her about this issue many times. Most of them were prior to me looking into her stuff. It doesn't seem to help. I only brought up the point of her stuff because I found the secrecy vs snooping to be odd. It seemed to suggest that something was fishy on her end.

@loving1, I didn't use to mess with my history etc. I guess that it is hard to put context into a message board post. Further, you get so much writing that people won't read it. For years, I didn't delete or remove anything. I started getting annoyed though. If a dating site popped up as spam or I viewed a facebook page of a girl I used to be friends with. It gets frustrating to constantly have to address this stuff and justify constantly my random actions or accidental ones.

@alexm, I have done that. Everything used to be logged in and free to view. She had her fill for years of looking at it without any restriction, which she did. The real issue is that after years of this without any reason to doubt me, she was still bothering me constantly. The issue beyond that was that I stopped and realized something... I never really cared about her stuff. It got me thinking that I didn't have access to anything of hers. She was constantly looking at my stuff, but had all of her own stuff private.

That is really my point, which I tried to clarify in my first post. It has only been the most recent events where I have bothered any of her stuff. I just now find it very odd that she never shared it, even while looking at my complete transparency. I find it odd that she is suddenly locking down things and alternating passwords after I was open with her for years. It was only then (like the last year) that I cleared all history and gave her nothing to see.

It helps just to vent about this stuff. I never thought about self-esteem or control issues. I just figured that she must be hiding something and was so confused why all the hiding and lies were petty things. It seemed like there must be something bigger to bother hiding so much. Maybe, the others issues just make it seem like hiding small things is important to her.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

More posts got added while I was typing...

@nogutsnoglory, having a mutual situation is healthy. Many couples yell and fight, it isn't bad. Many have open marriages. I could go through every point, but the issue is that they both agree and find balance. It isn't destructive to have a shared issue. It is destructive to have imbalance where one partner does not feel they are involved at the same level or equal standing. Like yelling at a timid partner or cheating on a faithful partner. Finding happiness isn't about living this ideal cookie cutter marriage that most people on this site seem to believe in.

I do agree with you that confrontation is faster. I just haven't had much luck. She seems to just hide better if I do the demand password thing. She will just find venues that I am not aware of until I find them. I'm working on figuring out the source of such need to hide things, then I can address the issue at the source.

@f-102, you are right and that may well be the source of my issues. I just have zero proof or reason to believe that. Maybe she did in the past and want some justification still to even things out. Maybe, she has the wool over my eyes completely and I am missing a lot of what she does or other lies that I haven't caught.

@everyone else, thanks for all of the advise. It helps to vent and to have all of the input to consider.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rundownandtired said:


> Thanks for all of the responses. I'll try to address them. @caribbean man, I think that you are right in some regards, but the link doesn't sound at all like my relationship. She is always talking her self up, which I was worried about. She is always making compliments to herself that are really only appropriately made from another person to her. At one point, which this is hard to share without being too specific, but I will try... She made a statement to an old guy friend that I was very bothered with. I had to sit down and have a talk with her.
> 
> He had said that he had the best wife because of something that she did. My wife goes over the line and suggests that he doesn't have the best wife because he isn't married to her. I tried to explain to her how many levels of wrong this statement crossed into, but she could not recognize it is a negative thing and viewed my sitting her down later as me being picky with her or blowing it out of proportion.
> 
> I explained that I did not care that it sounded like hitting on him. I assured her that I had no thoughts of such an issue, but that it could appear that way. I asked her to imagine if I had said that to a friends wife. I would be in a fist fight with her husband later from such a statement. My main point to get across though is that it was pushing the limits of being creepy to say such a thing.


How to Identify a Female Narcissist

*Personality/Character*

1]She insists on being the center of attention, and is often the most charming person in the room. Narcissists are very outgoing and excel at marketing themselves.

2]She often seeks favorable treatment, and automatic compliance. She believes that she is special, and that she deserves fame, fortune, success and happiness.

3]She is highly materialistic.

4]She is prone to envy, though she presents as supremely confident. She seeks opportunities to undermine others, and enjoys sharing confidences about how the two of you are better than others.

5]She is convinced that others are envious and jealous of her, and often uses this excuse for her lack of real, intimate friendships. When her friends enjoy successes of their own, she finds ways to punish them by downplaying their achievements.

6]She lacks empathy, and even common courtesy at times. She puts others down, including you. She does not hesitate to exploit others.

7]She is very competitive.

8]She believes that she is intellectually superior to her peers.

9]She blames others for problems. Narcissists don’t believe that they make mistakes, and lack the ability to process shame.

10]She displays a haughty attitude when she lets her guard down or is confronted. She will act impatient, arrogant and condescending. She will often excuse her own shortcomings by claiming that others are pressuring her or expecting too much of her.

11]She is dishonest and often lies to get what she wants. She will never admit this.

12]She is “psycho:” She engages in risky behaviors, has an addictive personality, and is prone to aggressive behavior when rejected. (Note: This is most common with Histrionic Personality Disorder.)

13]She is unpredictable in her moods and actions. You have trouble figuring out what she wants and where you stand.

14]She is capable of short-term regret, and will apologize profusely if backed into a corner. However, she will quickly rationalize her behavior and return to narcissistic patterns.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Snooping can be a from of compulsive behavior with some people.

To plagiarize Hilton, "It makes them hungry where it satisfies most."

In other words, snooping and finding nothing does not satisfy them that everything is okay. It only fuels the suspicion that something is wrong and they just need to dig deeper.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Thanks for your reply


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

I have decided that I will just talk with her later. I worry that being too upfront will have me miss information later, if she lies. At the same time, it is stupid to hide things. I should try my best to be open and say that I want honesty. I will tell her that I know about whatever lies and just hope that my efforts result in and end of them. That is really all that I can do. I guess that it is not productive to try to find a good point where the lie is big enough to have a fight.

@caribbean man, Almost everything that you posted is dead on. That is part of my trust issue with her. She seems to lie too often. She uses the excuse often, “I thought you would be mad” or “I was just trying not to hurt your feelings it was innocent.” She will only admit to them when backed into a corner, so I have a hard time knowing when our talks are her giving me lip service or her sincerely trying to hear me out.

I also have a hard time not thinking that she certainly would never tell me anything really bad because how must that seem? If the little things are worth a lie, why would she possibly not want to avoid the anger of the big things? I will have to figure out how to deal with that type of thing. I think you have helped a lot for me to identify the source of my problems. Thank you much for the help.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rundownandtired said:


> I have decided that I will just talk with her later. I worry that being too upfront will have me miss information later, if she lies. At the same time, it is stupid to hide things. I should try my best to be open and say that I want honesty. I will tell her that I know about whatever lies and just hope that my efforts result in and end of them. That is really all that I can do. I guess that it is not productive to try to find a good point where the lie is big enough to have a fight.
> 
> @caribbean man, Almost everything that you posted is dead on. That is part of my trust issue with her. She seems to lie too often. She uses the excuse often, “I thought you would be mad” or “I was just trying not to hurt your feelings it was innocent.” She will only admit to them when backed into a corner, so I have a hard time knowing when our talks are her giving me lip service or her sincerely trying to hear me out.
> 
> I also have a hard time not thinking that she certainly would never tell me anything really bad because how must that seem? If the little things are worth a lie, why would she possibly not want to avoid the anger of the big things? I will have to figure out how to deal with that type of thing. I think you have helped a lot for me to identify the source of my problems. Thank you much for the help.


That's why I gave you the link in the first post.
She seems to be a narcissist.
She needs professional help which you are unable to give her.
Individual counselling.
Narcissist never admit that they need help.
When you speak with her later, tell her you think that both of you need to see a marriage counsellor.
The MC will then be able to convince her that she needs IC [ individual Counselling ].
Best wishes.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

rundownandtired said:


> More posts got added while I was typing...
> 
> @nogutsnoglory, having a mutual situation is healthy. Many couples yell and fight, it isn't bad. Many have open marriages. I could go through every point, but the issue is that they both agree and find balance. It isn't destructive to have a shared issue. It is destructive to have imbalance where one partner does not feel they are involved at the same level or equal standing. Like yelling at a timid partner or cheating on a faithful partner. Finding happiness isn't about living this ideal cookie cutter marriage that most people on this site seem to believe in.
> 
> ...


let me put it this way. from what you post. Neither of you come across as honest people as it pertains to the relationship.
You act surprised she snoops, but as you write, I can hear you gloat about how superior to her you are in this endeavor to hide and seek one another to death. You sound like a person who has something to hide. That means nothing, accept that a person you do not know thinks you sound fishy. Sure she may have something to hide and you are right to want the truth. You also deserve it. If she is going to lengths to hide things, and to further lengths to find fault in you, then she is not a good wife. You need to demand transparency from both of you going forward and make it clear that it is a marriage deal breaker going forward. If she continues then serve her D papers.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Well, that changes my answer then!

I would feel the same way you do, and others here as well. My ex wife became rather paranoid up to the point when I caught her. I had usually brushed off her snooping and questions and accusations. No need to be defensive if I had nothing to hide. Then, as I said, she all of a sudden started changing her passwords.

We had booked a vacation, which we took right before we split up. Everything was using her email, flights, hotel, etc. We had never had an issue with each other going into our emails for stuff like this prior to this point in time. I remember trying to log in to her email and not getting in. I yelled downstairs to her if she had changed her password. LONG pause. "Yes. My sister told me to change my password regularly, just in case". (her sister is in IT, so the excuse was pretty valid.) I said no problem, what is it? I need to get in to get the flight details. LONG pause. Then she practically sprinted upstairs. I didn't move from the computer, as she probably hoped I would, and she gave me the password. I logged in, and she hovered over me as I found the email I was looking for.

I thought NOTHING of it. Stupid me! It only occurred to me some months later after everything had come out.

Had I gone back in there when she wasn't around, and snooped I am positive I would have found something. But the time between then and the next time I had a reason to go into her email was too long, and she likely scrubbed it of anything and told her guy never to use that address again.

Lesson learned. So when I check if my wife's passwords have changed now, I feel awful doing it, and it's NEVER because I suspect anything, it's just a reassurance.

In your case, I'd be suspicious at this point. It's nobody's God-given right to have access to our spouses accounts, but it's not an unreasonable request or assumption. There ARE people out there who are secretive AND who have nothing to hide. It's just in some people's nature, for whatever reason. They are rare, I don't disagree, but they exist.

Frankly, if you have any suspicions at all, I would try to get into her email accounts when she's not around. Most passwords and password hints (ie. through Hotmail or gmail) are not that difficult to figure out for somebody you live with. My wife could very likely figure out my passwords (if she didn't know them already) based on the hints and questions asked.

Or, tail her sometimes. Legal stuff. Leave the keyloggers and other such things until you're really desperate. If she's NOT up to anything, such behaviour will only worsen her distrust for you - if that's what it is.

But it certainly doesn't sound like it's on the up-and-up... 



rundownandtired said:


> @alexm, I have done that. Everything used to be logged in and free to view. She had her fill for years of looking at it without any restriction, which she did. The real issue is that after years of this without any reason to doubt me, she was still bothering me constantly. The issue beyond that was that I stopped and realized something... I never really cared about her stuff. It got me thinking that I didn't have access to anything of hers. She was constantly looking at my stuff, but had all of her own stuff private.
> 
> That is really my point, which I tried to clarify in my first post. It has only been the most recent events where I have bothered any of her stuff. I just now find it very odd that she never shared it, even while looking at my complete transparency. I find it odd that she is suddenly locking down things and alternating passwords after I was open with her for years. It was only then (like the last year) that I cleared all history and gave her nothing to see.
> 
> It helps just to vent about this stuff. I never thought about self-esteem or control issues. I just figured that she must be hiding something and was so confused why all the hiding and lies were petty things. It seemed like there must be something bigger to bother hiding so much. Maybe, the others issues just make it seem like hiding small things is important to her.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I gave you the link in the first post.
> She seems to be a narcissist.
> She needs professional help which you are unable to give her.
> Individual counselling.
> ...


It's hard to get through to a narcissist. They would have to get in all sorts of trouble for them to even start to analyze themself, and even then they may be too self involved to do this.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

Well, I did just what I said that I would. I told her everything on my mind. I told her that I don't completely trust her. I said that it is because she seems to tell me what I want to hear. I explained that I feel that she would keep things from me if she thought they would make me mad or seem bad.

I told her that I want to get past this point with her. First, I asked her to admit that she changed my privacy settings to store history. There is very little chance this wasn't done by her, but that was the start of a botched conversation.

No, I haven't touched your computer at all. Ok, so I assume she is lying but no progress there. I told her that I know she did other stuff before. She half admitted to it, like a ishecheating email account search, but blamed that on her friend. So, still not closer to feeling like she is coming clean.

I called her out on a few texts. You told your friend that you would lend them money. Yeah, I did, but that was just to be polite. I told them I was broke later. Of course, no evidence of that happening.

Ok, well you went out this one night for hours without letting me know where you were. You told me x, but I read you telling your friend y. Told her like four examples of this. I thought this would for sure end this discussion. Nope. She simply insists that her story was true and does not give any justification to what I read or why it didn't add up.

That leaves me starting to doubt if I even had evidence of lies. Even though I was sure I read them, she is so certain and unyielding. All I really wanted was to feel like I could trust her by having her finally break down and admit anything no matter how minor.

The end result is me still not trusting her completely and her having changed all of her passwords again and up her vigilance to any possible snooping. I give up on trying to catch a lie. I'm not up for a third party yet for help and I know she wouldn't go for it. I guess my only option is to just put my foot down anytime she does anything fishy without seeking proof. Time to stop being polite.

Frankly, it would be nearly impossible to prove the narcissist or habitual lyingto another party without proof that I never have and she always denies. I think I would just look insecure and like a jerk by the end.


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## rundownandtired (Dec 30, 2012)

I started to think more about this narcissist issue. I have always pushed my wife to improve. I am not always the most supportive, but I would think that it is at a normal level. I stop every now and then to tell her that I appreciate things and do not always show it. This is usually because there are many things occurring that I do not appreciate. A good example would be the dished are done, but the house hasn't been dusted in months. She looks nice today, but I haven't received any money in months.

It is hard to overrule the anger of a long standing issue for politeness that moment. My point being is that I'm not perfect. I stop from time to time and tell her that I appreciate the efforts that she does make. It seems though that things have changed since we first met. She used to seem very laid back. I don't remember her being so worried about her image or success.

It seemed to really start after I pushed her to try to get ahead and pay more attention to her responsibilities around the house. That seems to have started a spiral of her putting such a high value on such achievement. She is always flaunting her cooking, cleaning, etc. She is always saying how good she did at work and criticizing everyone else. She is so proud of everything, but at a level that seems a little worrying.

I never stopped to think that this didn't really start until I got involved. She didn't really seem to have much ambition at all in the beginning. I just wanted her to show some. I will say that some of it may be my own doing and fault. It may be that the solution is simply in me taking more time to compliment her, which will offset her feeling that she needs to create this image for herself. It might also make her feel more open to feeling insecure with me.

Of course, this won't fix her lack of motivation in other areas. It won't have her keeping up with chores or paying bills, but it might at least keep us emotionally on the same page. I might have just pushed too fast on some issues of responsibility.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think its time that you give her a dose of her own medicine and lock down EVERYTHING of yours. Watch how she reacts. She is a liar, I can see it her reactions to your questions. She is hyper vigilant about getting into your stuff because she is lying and hiding stuff herself. What it is, I dont know, but I'm sure its either man or money or both. It may be time to plant a VAR in her car. Normally I am a proponent of partners having full access to everything after having been with two cheaters in a row, but what you are describing is insanity.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rundown,
You will continue to be exhausted until you stand up for yourself. 

Stop making pathetic excuses for her behavior. And stop initiating major conversations and then backing off. 

Start with this: My computer and phone are off limits. They are now password protected. 

UOTE=rundownandtired;5094162]I started to think more about this narcissist issue. I have always pushed my wife to improve. I am not always the most supportive, but I would think that it is at a normal level. I stop every now and then to tell her that I appreciate things and do not always show it. This is usually because there are many things occurring that I do not appreciate. A good example would be the dished are done, but the house hasn't been dusted in months. She looks nice today, but I haven't received any money in months.

It is hard to overrule the anger of a long standing issue for politeness that moment. My point being is that I'm not perfect. I stop from time to time and tell her that I appreciate the efforts that she does make. It seems though that things have changed since we first met. She used to seem very laid back. I don't remember her being so worried about her image or success.

It seemed to really start after I pushed her to try to get ahead and pay more attention to her responsibilities around the house. That seems to have started a spiral of her putting such a high value on such achievement. She is always flaunting her cooking, cleaning, etc. She is always saying how good she did at work and criticizing everyone else. She is so proud of everything, but at a level that seems a little worrying.

I never stopped to think that this didn't really start until I got involved. She didn't really seem to have much ambition at all in the beginning. I just wanted her to show some. I will say that some of it may be my own doing and fault. It may be that the solution is simply in me taking more time to compliment her, which will offset her feeling that she needs to create this image for herself. It might also make her feel more open to feeling insecure with me.

Of course, this won't fix her lack of motivation in other areas. It won't have her keeping up with chores or paying bills, but it might at least keep us emotionally on the same page. I might have just pushed too fast on some issues of responsibility.[/QUOTE]


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