# Divorced Moms in the workplace



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I have been having problems with some of the divorced moms in my office. A couple in particular seem to have every reason in the book to leave work because of a kid issue. 

Today it was "my 15 yr old son is sick and needs me to take him home". They live 2 blocks from the school, and he could walk home. It takes her a minimum of 1.5 hrs. to drive home and back. She has used almost all of her benefit time for the year already. And vacation time must be approved in advance. 

I guess it was her attitude about it. Like I owed her some extra consideration because of her status. We have operational needs at work that are not being met, so I disapproved her request and gave her docktime (No pay).

She was a SAHM before the divorce, so maybe she feels entitled to extra benefits because she was forced to enter the workforce. I have told her previously that as senior management I must be consistent with home/life balance, sex and status not withstanding.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

When they do these things, can they not simply stay later or come in on weekends to make up the time?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

At my kids' schools, they won't let a sick kid leave to walk home.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Well its not just single moms. Parents of all sorts seem to need to take extra time off to take care of their children - this has been true of everywhere I have worked. 

I chose not to have kids, and I am the one that can be depended upon to show up day in, day out, cover holidays etc. 

Am I happy about it? Not really. Have I noticed some parents consistently take ALL of their sick time, while my bank of sick time maxed out a few years ago (I take on average a day a year) - YEP! 

And I singled out parents, as I work in a small office, its the parents who are out a bunch while the few of us without kids underfoot show up every day.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

In our particular field, there are milestones that must be met and documented, thru collaborative meetings that must happen during the work day. We have team members in other timezones.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> At my kids' schools, they won't let a sick kid leave to walk home.


Never heard of that.


----------



## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> In our particular field, there are milestones that must be met and documented, thru collaborative meetings that must happen during the work day. We have team members in other timezones.



Remote access. Problem solved.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Schools dont let kids leave without someone signing them out. Even if he is 15. They just dont dismiss them like that. What if something were to happen to the kid? The school will get blamed. 

So, i have had to sign out my kids when they were 15, 16 and 18 years old. Schools are very careful these days. 

And if you dont take your sick days, thats onus on you. You are entitled to them.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I guess this is a business question. I remember another business owner saying he was going to hire a grandmother to be his next secretary because They never have to take time off for kid things. I've hired several women over the years. In general I find them reliable, and hardworking. They have a high level of pride in their workmanship. Several of the women who worked for me were single mothers. They took no more time off than the men. They were usually very courteous about it. I guess I was lucky, in my business it was possible for them to put in late hours and catch up. Or someone could cover in case of a sick emergency. 

I would say that on the positive side Single mothers were motivated. They show up on time every day because they value the job. They do good work because they want to advance. Single mothers avoid conflict and drama. Don't get me wrong if there is a problem they will report, but they aren't the ones starting it. They have enough Drama in life without starting something at work. Single mothers tend to focus on simple solutions. They have a lot of experience solving problems.

I understand that you are upset with this person. She is really pushing the limits. But honestly is it because she is a single mother, or is it because she is a poor employee?


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I shouldnthave said:


> Am I happy about it? Not really. Have I noticed some parents consistently take ALL of their sick time, while my bank of sick time maxed out a few years ago (I take on average a day a year) - YEP!


But on the flip side, you likely have much, much more free time outside of work than the parents do.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

wilson said:


> But on the flip side, you likely have much, much more free time outside of work than the parents do.


That's totally irrelevant.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I worked at a place that was VERY good about work/life balance. We all worked hard, and that was where the emphasis lie, not where one was at one time. But it sounds like stuff is not getting done. If process can change to accommodate schedules because of hard working, motivated people, I would do that.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

What is the problem with taking the allotted amount of time off? Isn't that what it is for?


----------



## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

I'm not divorced but I am a Mom (he's 22 now) and have always worked. I have worked at the same small law firm for the last 23 years. I am fortunate enough that the bosses where I work were generous enough with such issues that you are dealing with. It is extremely difficult when the primary caretaker of children, usually the mother, has to work (outside the home, for whatever reason), and has to juggle work and home life. It's even more unfortunate with divorced/widowed women who are now forced to handle EVERYTHING (such as sick kids, leaking pipes, furnace not working, car won't start). 

I know....I've BTDT. I was always the primary caretaker, always the one that had to leave work for doctor's visits, go pick up a sick kid at school, run interference, whatever. My husband was not in a position where he could leave his job at the drop of a hat for "emergencies". And like I said, I have an employer who is generous and understands those complications. That's not to say that I took advantage of that generosity. That's where the difficulty lies. If you have employees who are taking advantage of the situation you are going to have problems. Once you let one do it, they all catch on and they all start doing it. 

In a very nice manner say...I can give you approximately an hour for this (whatever the emergency), but I would appreciate it if you could stay an extra hour today (or tomorrow) as (xyz) needs to be finished. If that's not feasible, then let them know that you will start docking pay for their "emergencies". 

As for the attitude, let them know right up front that you won't deal with it. You can write them up for that (company policy?) insubordination, and put it in their employee file.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Lukedog said:


> I'm not divorced but I am a Mom (he's 22 now) and have always worked. I have worked at the same small law firm for the last 23 years. I am fortunate enough that the bosses where I work were generous enough with such issues that you are dealing with. It is extremely difficult when the primary caretaker of children, usually the mother, has to work (outside the home, for whatever reason), and has to juggle work and home life. It's even more unfortunate with divorced/widowed women who are now forced to handle EVERYTHING (such as sick kids, leaking pipes, furnace not working, car won't start).
> 
> I know....I've BTDT. I was always the primary caretaker, always the one that had to leave work for doctor's visits, go pick up a sick kid at school, run interference, whatever. My husband was not in a position where he could leave his job at the drop of a hat for "emergencies". And like I said, I have an employer who is generous and understands those complications. That's not to say that I took advantage of that generosity. That's where the difficulty lies. If you have employees who are taking advantage of the situation you are going to have problems. Once you let one do it, they all catch on and they all start doing it.
> 
> ...


What attitude? HIS inference that she feels entitled? How do you know that is her and not him? You can't write someone up for "I think".


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

wilson said:


> But on the flip side, you likely have much, much more free time outside of work than the parents do.


Well, for one, its a choice I made, just like having kids was a choice they made. You are right! Outside of my 13 hour work / commute days, I have much more free time because I do not have kids to worry about. 

Doesn't make any of the days I have had to cover because coworkers are out for "first day of 5th grade, kid had a fever, kid had a belly ache, kid needs driven to camp, kid needs to take driver test, kids need to be dropped at at college etc" 



minimalME said:


> That's totally irrelevant.


I agree.... except relevant in that I take even less personal time than those with kids. Means I don't take off work for medical appointments, DMV the list goes on. I do it on my own time. Same can't be said for most of my coworkers.

On the other hand, I have a stellar work history, amazing attendance, and I am quite dependable. It has served me well over the years. I have been the last man standing through major lay offs before.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Today it was "my 15 yr old son is sick and needs me to take him home". They live 2 blocks from the school, and he could walk home. It takes her a minimum of 1.5 hrs. to drive home and back. She has used almost all of her benefit time for the year already. And vacation time must be approved in advance.
> 
> I guess it was her attitude about it. Like I owed her some extra consideration because of her status. We have operational needs at work that are not being met, so I disapproved her request and gave her docktime (No pay).
> 
> She was a SAHM before the divorce, so maybe she feels entitled to extra benefits because she was forced to enter the workforce. I have told her previously that as senior management I must be consistent with home/life balance, sex and status not withstanding.


So out of curiosity, how many women do you have working for you? In general, do they leave at a quicker rate than your male employees?

I doubt her SAHM past has any bearing on it. She is a parent with a sick kid; someone has to leave work (and it's usually the mom.) 

Do you have kids? If you're dad, I have to think your wife handles the kids or you would have heard, from daycare or kindergarten on, that kids who leave early have to be signed out. Otherwise they are considered truant.

If she has benefits left (you said they were almost used up, not entirely used up) then how is asking for anything extra? 

I don't know, dude. You sound very Last Century to me. Are you used to working with men who have SAHWs? I've been a manager for years now in the pharmaceutical research world where we live and die on deadlines; both men and women need some flex time for family things.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It's the 10th of May there are about 160 workdays left in the year. MAJ Death is worried because she has not shown any ability to go 160 days without needing time off.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> What is the problem with taking the allotted amount of time off? Isn't that what it is for?


It depends on where you work. Government employee? From what I have seen, many employees make sure that they take very last minuet that they are allotted (and I have seen the short staffing, and delays this mentality causes). 

Other industries? It depends on your state, and the type of compensation. I get "sick time" and "vacation time". 

Vacation time is earned and you should be able to take it as long as it is scheduled and approved (or even have it paid out in my state). 

Sick time? That should be for when you are sick - And around here at least, its expected that you only take it when you are actually SICK. So, for someone like me, who is a healthy person, I rarely have a need to take sick days, as I am rarely sick. 

Some people treat sick time as vacation time, or PTO (paid time off) and take it when ever they feel like.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I shouldnthave said:


> Well, for one, its a choice I made, just like having kids was a choice they made. You are right! Outside of my 13 hour work / commute days, I have much more free time because I do not have kids to worry about.
> 
> Doesn't make any of the days I *have had to *cover because coworkers are out for "first day of 5th grade, kid had a fever, kid had a belly ache, kid needs driven to camp, kid needs to take driver test, kids need to be dropped at at college etc"


There is this wonderful word you can use to feel empowered. "No". You could try it.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> It's the 10th of May there are about 160 workdays left in the year. MAJ Death is worried because she has not shown any ability to go 160 days without needing time off.


I'm not sure if this was directed to me, but I understand that she has had to leave often because she is nearly through her benefits.

I just find it interesting that he thought she shouldn't need to leave because her sick kid could just walk home. In other words, he didn't think her issue was legitimate. And he thinks that her SAHM background is the cause of her "entitled" attitude.

IME, parents (usually moms) do need to take time off to pick up sick kids. There is nothing "entitled" about it.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> There is this wonderful word you can use to feel empowered. "No". You could try it.


No, actually my career, the success of my office and team, my customers etc mean more to me than saying no. 

Like I mentioned earlier, being dependable has paid off for me. I have been with my company for 15 years now. They have my back, I want to move? They ask me where to and see that I have a job in that city. Department of 52 being reduced to 2? They see it that I am the one kept on.

I don't think I would feel empowered by watching my projects not make deadlines, or losing key customers because I said "No" I won't be a team player and pick up where the mommys and daddys leave off.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

In my industry employers appreciate employees who cover. We appreciate employees who are sensitive to production schedules. We appreciate employees who use sick leave for sick leave. We appreciate employees who know how to say yes. And we appreciate it in very tangible and financial ways. For example guess which employee doesn't get laid off.

Of course we are not Mega corporations, we are small businesses. When the Parent who was in charge of finishing the stair parts, unexpectedly takes the afternoon off, then the boss has to finish the stair parts as well as answer the phone, meet with salesmen, and sign the paychecks. 

I understand that this is a foreign world to the big corp, urban lives. But just because it is different doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I shouldnthave said:


> No, actually my career, the success of my office and team, my customers etc *mean more to me *than saying no.


Then you don't "have to".



> Like I mentioned earlier, being dependable has paid off for me. I have been with my company for 15 years now. They have my back, I want to move? They ask me where to and see that I have a job in that city. Department of 52 being reduced to 2? They see it that I am the one kept on.
> 
> I don't think I would feel empowered by watching my projects not make deadlines, or losing key customers because I said "No" I won't be a team player and pick up where the mommys and daddys leave off.


Someone is bitter.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

bkyln309 said:


> Remote access. Problem solved.


I wish telecommuting was available, then I would use it too :smile2:


----------



## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

I've never heard of a school letting a kid go home early without someone signing them out.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> Schools dont let kids leave without someone signing them out. Even if he is 15. They just dont dismiss them like that. What if something were to happen to the kid? The school will get blamed.
> 
> So, i have had to sign out my kids when they were 15, 16 and 18 years old. Schools are very careful these days.
> 
> And if you dont take your sick days, thats onus on you. You are entitled to them.


So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

RoseAglow said:


> So out of curiosity, how many women do you have working for you? In general, do they leave at a quicker rate than your male employees?
> 
> I doubt her SAHM past has any bearing on it. She is a parent with a sick kid; someone has to leave work (and it's usually the mom.)
> 
> ...


I manage about 40 women. No use of time problems with most of them - deadlines are met and projects get done. Turnover is actually less for my female staff. We have an adult child and he attended a private academy for high school so no problem with early departure with parental notification. Employee in question has used all of her personal time and almost all accumulated sick time (which can be used for sick family). She has used all comp time and holiday time so far. 

Is it appropriate to ask if her ex-husband can pick-up the sick kid if she is going to miss another deadline?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?


It depends on the situation. Whether it makes sense or not, there is concern about contagion with sick kids hanging out at the school. Schools have pretty strict policies about getting sick kids out of dodge. For myself, I have never had an employer who was concerned about the need to jet out to take care of a sick kid.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?


Growing up, my dad was the primary care giver, yes - this is what I would do. He was a plant foreman and couldn't just take off at the drop of a hat. So, if I fell ill while at school, I would go nap at the nurse's office until he was off. Or if it was earlier in the day he would take care of me during his lunch break.



NobodySpecial said:


> Someone is bitter.


I am not bitter, I just have a strong work ethic. Something seen less and less these days.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Maybe the example I cited is not the best one to use. Another poster mentioned first day of school, holiday party, field trip, left book/homework at home, forgot gym shoes, athletic event, etc. Perhaps it is her approach that is the problem - more like telling me rather than asking me.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I manage about 40 women. No use of time problems with most of them - deadlines are met and projects get done. Turnover is actually less for my female staff. We have an adult child and he attended a private academy for high school so no problem with early departure with parental notification. Employee in question has used all of her personal time and almost all accumulated sick time (which can be used for sick family). She has used all comp time and holiday time so far.
> 
> Is it appropriate to ask if her ex-husband can pick-up the sick kid if she is going to miss another deadline?


I would not attempt to solve her family problems for her. I would simply say something like most of your accumulated time has been taken and deadlines are being missed. It is her problem to find solutions. That is part of the work/life BALANCE. Ask her what she thinks she can do to meet her required deadlines, perhaps. If you get too close solving her problems, you might find yourself embroiled in drama and problems you don't want.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Maybe the example I cited is not the best one to use. Another poster mentioned first day of school, holiday party, field trip, left book/homework at home, forgot gym shoes, athletic event, etc. Perhaps it is her approach that is the problem - more like telling me rather than asking me.


Does your company have a policy you can refer to? You can treat it as a request regardless of her approach. Maybe what is your plan for meeting the deadline and the overseas (or time zones or whatever) calls?


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?


Yep. Sit in the nures office or main office


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I forgot to mention that she is currently on proof status (must submit signed doctor slip) for any medical appoints, due to previous abuse of sick time. And I am sensitive to parental responsibilities, just seems like some folks expect too much leeway even when their performance is lacking. I asked her once what her plan was for completed assigned tasks when she wanted to leave, and she said something similar to "you're the boss and you're smart, you'll figure something out".:|


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I forgot to mention that she is currently on proof status (must submit signed doctor slip) for any medical appoints, due to previous abuse of sick time. And I am sensitive to parental responsibilities, just seems like some folks expect too much leeway even when their performance is lacking. I asked her once what her plan was for completed assigned tasks when she wanted to leave, and she said something similar to "you're the boss and you're smart, you'll figure something out".:|


Oh boy. I would be reading up on performance assessment policies at the company and, if I had a mentor or trusted person asking them. I am not an experienced manager. It is a performance issue until she uses up every last minute of her time I would think.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I forgot to mention that she is currently on proof status (must submit signed doctor slip) for any medical appoints, due to previous abuse of sick time. And I am sensitive to parental responsibilities, just seems like some folks expect too much leeway even when their performance is lacking. *I asked her once what her plan was for completed assigned tasks* when she wanted to leave, and she said something similar to "you're the boss and you're smart, you'll figure something out".:|


I wonder if, I will consider your request when you tell me what your plan is for completing assigned tasks. Would that work?


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I manage about 40 women. No use of time problems with most of them - deadlines are met and projects get done. Turnover is actually less for my female staff. We have an adult child and he attended a private academy for high school so no problem with early departure with parental notification. Employee in question has used all of her personal time and almost all accumulated sick time (which can be used for sick family). She has used all comp time and holiday time so far.
> 
> Is it appropriate to ask if her ex-husband can pick-up the sick kid if she is going to miss another deadline?


Thanks for answering.

If I were in your shoes as a manager, I would talk with her, focusing on two concerns:

1. She has missed several deadlines. You understand that some of these were due to family emergencies, however, there are ways to proactively manage deadlines to ensure they are not missed. Meeting deliverables/deadlines is a critical part of the job, and the company can't support employees who do not meet deadlines. If she continues to miss deadlines, disciplinary action will be taken.

To avoid this and to support her success, she needs to create a plan of action. Plan of actions might be: 
a. making a personal deadline several days ahead of the true deadline (this is our go-to at my job, our expectation is that the deliverable is complete 2-3 days ahead of the official deadline. It's not always possible depending on the industry)
b. depending on the job/industry- she should establish work "buddies" or coworkers who might be able to cover in extreme circumstances. For instance, we cross-train people who work on the same drug but different protocols so there is coverage for last minute issues. But this should not be something that occurs often and she should also be available for cross-training/coverage.

2. In addition, discuss that she has used up almost all of her sick/comp/holiday time. You will not be able to approve time and you want to make sure that she is aware that she is reaching her limit so she can proactively make plans as needed. I wouldn't specifically suggest that her ex-husband pick up her kid unless she asks how other people do it, or for advice, etc. But put her on alert. 

You might check in with your HR department on this, but when I see someone starting to go down like this (drop in performance metrics, lack of availability) I speak on a 1:1 about the Employee Assistance Program and I email the link. I also remind the employee that HR is available to discuss benefits available to her (such as FMLA) if needed. 

I always send a recap of my 1:1s with my employees for their records, and for my records. I want to have clear documentation that appropriate and timely feedback on performance and support on finding resolutions have been provided. When an employee says "No one ever told me that my performance was bad", I have a meeting in the calendar and an email follow up showing that the employee was notified verbally and via email. 

One last thing- I loop in HR anytime an employee has a drop in performance along with family issues. Sometimes they have helped re-assign people, sometimes we get someone into FLMA while also being able to pull other resources to help keep us resourced, etc

Now you know what it's like to have to report to me, LOL! I hope some of it was helpful!


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> Thanks for answering.
> 
> If I were in your shoes as a manager, I would talk with her, focusing on two concerns:
> 
> ...


Beautiful.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> At my kids' schools, they won't let a sick kid leave to walk home.


This has been a rule everywhere I have ever taught.

Every. Place.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

So your title sounds like a generalization about divorced moms. But it's really just this ONE woman, right?


----------



## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Wow. My work world seems very different. First, we get a lot more time off. Aside from holidays, everyone gets a block of PTO that they can use for whatever they want. I think it starts with 4 weeks and goes up to 7 weeks depending on your age. Most people here tend to be very understanding about people with special needs. Those people also tend to do what they can to make up for lost time. We can't officially work from home, but people do it when the need arises. We're all exempt (at least in my group), so exact hours aren't a big deal. It's all about getting your job done.

It still doesn't work out even, but that's OK because we don't get paid evenly either. We have a considerable amount of "at risk" pay. Over half of my income in a typical year comes from bonus pay and stock grants. A significant factor in that is how effective an employee is. If someone has a rough year with lots of personal issues, they'll make less money. 

We have had some people that were chronic abusers of our flexibility. They generally don't last that long. We've also had some great employees that went through difficult circumstances (divorce, major illness, death in the family, child attempted suicide) and we've bent over backwards to accommodate them. It's what decent people do.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> I manage about 40 women. No use of time problems with most of them - deadlines are met and projects get done. Turnover is actually less for my female staff. We have an adult child and he attended a private academy for high school so no problem with early departure with parental notification. Employee in question has used all of her personal time and almost all accumulated sick time (which can be used for sick family). She has used all comp time and holiday time so far.
> 
> Is it appropriate to ask if her ex-husband can pick-up the sick kid if she is going to miss another deadline?


You obviously never had kids.

When I'm the Mom - I want to care for my sick child.

Dock her pay if she uses more than allowed. She will look for other work - something more reasonable/less rigid.

Seems like you have a grudge against her... she is being a MOM! That job comes first! Divorced or not - what does that have to do with anything? My exH never cared for our kids when they were sick.

Maybe you just have a problem with all women?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> At my kids' schools, they won't let a sick kid leave to walk home.


Same here. A parent or authorized adult has to pick up the student.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm the biggest slacker I know work wise. Did all the working mom things early in my career and that's why I'm a lowly team leader of 12 vs manager of 30 or director of 100.

But I'm pretty layoff-proof (good luck finding a single person to replace me ) plus we have a good work life balance program. I'm 33 years with the company in July.

I'm pretty flexible with my underlings and they don't push it either. Most are either old people like me or fresh out of college.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?


They require pickup within an hour here or else...


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I forgot to mention that she is currently on proof status (must submit signed doctor slip) for any medical appoints, due to previous abuse of sick time. And I am sensitive to parental responsibilities, just seems like some folks expect too much leeway even when their performance is lacking. I asked her once what her plan was for completed assigned tasks when she wanted to leave, and she said something similar to *"you're the boss and you're smart, you'll figure something out"*.:|



I don't know how much power you have as a Senior Manager in your job. Thankfully, I have a lot of power as a mid-manager at my job and any person who said the above in bold to me would have Performance Improvement Plan in front of them within 1 business day. 

The performance plan would include her statement and a clear statement that her job as an employee is to complete quality work with in the timelines. 

I would clearly state: You have failed to complete the duties of your job. You missed deadlines on [Date] and [Date]. These are critical core components of your job. 

I would assign clear and simple tasks, including 

1. reviewing a print out of the job description which she will sign, date, and provide to me to show that she understands the expectations of her job. I'd give one business day to complete this task. 

2. completing a Professional Communication web-based learning within one week.

3. She must make all deadlines within the next 3 months. 

Failure to complete these tasks will result in further disciplinary actions, up to termination of employment.

Even if she managed to get every task done, she would be on high alert and I would have the legal right to go to first or final warning. I would have a first or final warning if she failed to do any of the tasks.


The more you post, the more it sounds like you have a poor performing employee who needs to be managed tightly and without immediate and sustained improvement should be managed out. 

Please note that nothing in any of the management techniques I've posted refer to marital status, parental status, or gender. It is entirely focused on performance.

Poor employees will play any card available and they can be of any gender, race, age, marital status, parental status, etc. I think as managers we don't do any good by focusing on anything other than the poor performance. Getting caught up in the games, at best, wastes time and gets us caught up in the drama, and at worst causes legal trouble. 

I wish you luck with this one, because a bad attitude like this affects all the team members IMO. This kind of person ticks off the other employees who have to pick up the slack; in addition, direct reports lose confidence in the management. They want to know why we are letting someone who sucks so bad stay in the job. I am fortunate to work somewhere that allows me to take quick action; I've worked other places where we have to get approvals before we can start PIPs or warning letters.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

john117 said:


> I'm the biggest slacker I know work wise. Did all the working mom things early in my career and that's why I'm a lowly team leader of 12 vs manager of 30 or director of 100.
> 
> But I'm pretty layoff-proof (good luck finding a single person to replace me ) plus we have a good work life balance program. I'm 33 years with the company in July.
> 
> I'm pretty flexible with my underlings and they don't push it either. Most are either old people like me or fresh out of college.


It's a decision you made, you understood the costs and are happy with the choice you made.

I made the same choice (in agreement with my wife); I stayed with a good job which paid me well, I enjoyed, had little to no travel and didn't require constant 60 hour weeks.

But I, no doubt, could have made a great deal more and been more successful (by whatever definition) if I'd given priority to my career.

I have no regrets.

I only have issues with people who want to focus on work / life balance when they complain that those who chose work get promoted sooner; make more money; etc then they do. Or when they feel it's their employer's responsibility (or the government's) to make sure that they get get the same rewards as those who made the choice to give priority to their career.


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> You obviously never had kids.
> 
> When I'm the Mom - I want to care for my sick child.
> 
> ...


OMG! Spoken like a true lousy employee........You're part of the problem in the workforce......


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I would professionally and cooley clamp down on her ass and continue to counsel and document her activities. After a while she will either get with the program and shape up, will quit, or you will have a case to fire her.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> No, actually my career, the success of my office and team, my customers etc mean more to me than saying no.
> 
> Like I mentioned earlier, being dependable has paid off for me. I have been with my company for 15 years now. They have my back, I want to move? They ask me where to and see that I have a job in that city. Department of 52 being reduced to 2? They see it that I am the one kept on.
> 
> I don't think I would feel empowered by watching my projects not make deadlines, or losing key customers because I said "No" I won't be a team player and pick up where the mommys and daddys leave off.


Your are hired.

Edit. Amazed that you would be called bitter. Of course this is today's workforce where excuses are the norm. I prefer to work with this kind of coworker, then the whiners of today.


----------



## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > So what if a parent is not available until later, wouldn't they just go sit in the nurse's office?
> ...


You sound very bitter. Why does it matter to you that they take their EARNED time off to go to their kids 5th grade play or stay at home when then they are puking? Why? And why do you assume that people that use their earned time off don’t have a strong work ethic? 

I work for a single female that has no kids, no pets, no plants and no prospects. She has not had sex in over 20 years. She works from 7am -7pm and even when she has the fewest clients of us all she will never cease to make work for herself and tell everyone she does the most. But she will also take 5-7 week+ long vacations each year with her parents, stating she doesn’t know how much longer she will have them around. 

It is sweet really until you realize she is a psychopath who takes all this vacation time but doesn’t let me use mine. I have eight plus weeks on the books and can only carry over six into next year. But I am not allowed to use them. I can’t tell you how many weeks I have “taken off” to get HR off my back about my time and still worked full weeks from home. That means I lose them. That is work ethic. 

She spoke to me earlier this year about the kids’ snow days (bad winter) being an issue for her. That I worked from home too much. We have separate clients and my schedule doesn’t impact her so I was like “um, what?” She explained that people asked her questions when I wasn’t there and it takes its toll on her. Seriously? Telll them (them is the one guy that sits across the hall from her and is lazy AF) to call or email me like any other day. Have a boundary. I work from home two days/wk as a normal week, one more isn’t killing anyone. 

So I am working 365 days a year, not really present for my family when I am present to satisfy some crazy single person who feels safer putting work above all else because that is all they have? And having to cover for her vacations because her parents will die some day? Then I should be taking all of my time off now so MY kids don’t regret not having time with me. Right? “Oh no, can’t your ex husband or new husband do that?”

It is crazy making. And this is a big anniversary year for me -I get two extra weeks vacation! Yay! Two more weeks of time off I get to throw in the trash because my supervisor thinks anyone with kids is beneath her and only she can take vacations. 

Sorry to thread jack vent MAJ. I think in this case you may need to kindly ask if she has a support system in place. I have never been afforded the opportunity to be a SAHM, I always worked and worked a long distance from my kids in terms of an emergency. My XH was a SAHD so he had it covered. But strangely he hasn’t had good cell service since the divorce. So the school nurse calls me. Being 70 miles away I have to call reinforcements. Sometimes that is my mom getting them in a few minutes. Sometimws it is me leaving work and getting them an hour later. But not once has my XH taken a call or picked up a sick kid since my youngest started Kindergarten. (Wow, my youngest is about to finish 7th and I have never realized this!

My point is I would ask about “support people” and not the ex husband specifically.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Now that's bitter!!..yikes


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> I have been having problems with some of the divorced moms in my office. A couple in particular seem to have every reason in the book to leave work because of a kid issue.
> 
> Today it was "my 15 yr old son is sick and needs me to take him home". They live 2 blocks from the school, and he could walk home. It takes her a minimum of 1.5 hrs. to drive home and back. She has used almost all of her benefit time for the year already. And vacation time must be approved in advance.
> 
> ...


At the end of the day, you are Senior Management. It is your responsibility to handle your division and meet your deadlines. Being consistent, sex and status not withstanding, is exactly what you are hired to do. A single parent should not have status over someone who is not. Married divorced, male or female, handle your personal business and keep it out of the workforce. 

Quite a few people are retiring and I am moving from Senior management to Executive. In order for my life to become less stressful, I am going to hire people who do not cause me stress. No "metoo's. No #youtoo's, Every one get along or get another job.

I suggest you focus on your entire staff, and build a solid TEAM who shows respect for each other AND their job. It will make your life so much easier. Anyone that would tell you, "Your senior management, you figure it out" should be fired.


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, if you have to operate on deadlines, make sure they are met. If a team member is not meeting the need of your company then you must fire them. This job is not suited to a man or woman who has underage children to care for. Individuals in the workforce must carry their responsibilities. That is what they are hired for. Hence, the yearly review for all employees. Make sure that you document each employee's activities. Management is a hard job. Survive it by making hard choices.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

TheBohannons said:


> At the end of the day, you are Senior Management. It is your responsibility to handle your division and meet your deadlines. Being consistent, sex and status not withstanding, is exactly what you are hired to do. A single parent should not have status over someone who is not. Married divorced, male or female, handle your personal business and keep it out of the workforce.
> 
> Quite a few people are retiring and I am moving from Senior management to Executive. In order for my life to become less stressful, I am going to hire people who do not cause me stress. No "metoo's. No #youtoo's, Every one get along or get another job.
> 
> I suggest you focus on your entire staff, and build a solid TEAM who shows respect for each other AND their job. It will make your life so much easier. Anyone that would tell you, "Your senior management, you figure it out" should be fired.


Well, I wish I could fire some under-performing folks. But my organization has a powerful union, and it appears even the director of HR bows to their will at times. I knew this going in, but it is very frustrating at times. But I really was comparing my executive secretary to these other ladies. My secretary's husband is deployed in the Navy, and she is handling all duties for 3 kids. But the difference is glaring. She tells her kids (for example) if they forgot a book for school, that she is not bringing it to them, that they need to be more responsible, and deal with the consequences. And they have told the school this. Compared to the divorced moms in the office, she takes about 1/4 of the paid time off that they do. Must be those years of dealing with an absent (at times) husband that has made her a better planner.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Bluesclues said:


> You sound very bitter. Why does it matter to you that they take their EARNED time off to go to their kids 5th grade play or stay at home when then they are puking? Why? And why do you assume that people that use their earned time off don’t have a strong work ethic?
> 
> I work for a single female that has no kids, no pets, no plants and no prospects. She has not had sex in over 20 years. She works from 7am -7pm and even when she has the fewest clients of us all she will never cease to make work for herself and tell everyone she does the most. But she will also take 5-7 week+ long vacations each year with her parents, stating she doesn’t know how much longer she will have them around.
> 
> ...


When I was in the military, all single parents were required to have a "family care plan" in place, in the event of departure for training, deployments, etc. Oh how I wish we could utilize something like that. Of course it is taboo to dare ask about family status or kids in the civilian world.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> So your title sounds like a generalization about divorced moms. But it's really just this ONE woman, right?


No, a group of 4-5 has caused me to devote about 80 percent of my "dealing with personnel issues" time. Lots of counseling and other paperwork.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

john117 said:


> They require pickup within an hour here or else...


Or else what, they call a phone number and leave another message?


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> This has been a rule everywhere I have ever taught.
> 
> Every. Place.


My junior/senior high was open campus at lunch. I could come home for lunch, eat at school, or go to fast food. Students that took vocational classes left at noon and drove themselves 15 miles to the vocational center. Seniors left school an hour before everyone else. The school would notify the parents if needed. I guess now all responsibility/trust is lost.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

I had this problem at my last job. 20% caused 80% of the disruptions. I was able to alleviate about half of the problems when I allowed parents to bring their children back to work if needed. As long as the "illness" was not contagious, a parent could go and pick up their child and return to work. Almost everyone had a office so this worked out for parents who really want to help out and not allow a coworker to "babysit" their job.

Funny thing though, when the "sick" child was faced with going to mom's work and sitting quietly in the room, versus back to the privacy of their rooms/Facebook/Twitter etc, they called mom a lot less.

Those who could not adapt were made irrelevant and soon moved on.

Disclosure. I had 50/50 custody for 13 years. We coparented amicably and worked with what we were given. All vacations and sick days were usually child related, but that is a sacrifice that must be made if you plan to enter the workforce PREPARED.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> At my kids' schools, they won't let a sick kid leave to walk home.


Hell, the kids at my daughter's school aren't even allowed to walk home for lunch when they're feeling perfectly fine, let alone walking home when they're sick.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Or else what, they call a phone number and leave another message?


I wish.

More drastic than that. Up to calling authorities...


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Or else what, they call a phone number and leave another message?


The public school calls 911 if your kid stays in the office too long. Then, you can pick your kid up at the local station.😁 The school does this because they don't want to babysit in the office.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Betrayedone said:


> I would professionally and cooley clamp down on her ass and continue to counsel and document her activities. After a while she will either get with the program and shape up, will quit, or you will have a case to fire her.


Bearing in mind that this is not a divorced Mom problem but a bad employee problem. You can help turn her around or get rid of her seems to me.


----------



## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

I don't know what to say - kids take a lot of effort and can definitely interfere with work schedules even for the best employees. Illness, dr. appointments and snow days/weather days tend to be unpredictable and come at the worst times. Good companies allow a lot of flexibility, provide tools to enable working from home when needed, and plan around where needed. If this woman was formerly a SAHM then it's likely her husbands career takes focus and she's left to handle it all...

I dunno...price we all have to pay to live in a healthy society with positive birthrate. It's in everyone's best interest at the macro level to promote family friendly policies.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > This has been a rule everywhere I have ever taught.
> ...


Well, in MY day we played on concrete playgrounds, sniffed purple mimeograph ink, and played 8-tracks.

Times change.

Look, you arent built for compromise. It's obvious from ALL your threads. I'd give her a two weeks notice and let her go elsewhere.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> Well, in MY day we played on concrete playgrounds, sniffed purple mimeograph ink, and played 8-tracks.
> 
> Times change.
> 
> Look, you arent built for compromise. It's obvious from ALL your threads. I'd give her a two weeks notice and let her go elsewhere.


In the name of helping MAJ, this would not necessarily be great advice for his career in management. I would recommend he address his own bias with regard to thinking about this as a divorced Mom problem so that he can look at it as an employee problem, addressing the situation at hand in the workplace. Rehabilitating a likely employee is cheaper than replacing them often.


----------



## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> My junior/senior high was open campus at lunch. I could come home for lunch, eat at school, or go to fast food. Students that took vocational classes left at noon and drove themselves 15 miles to the vocational center. Seniors left school an hour before everyone else. The school would notify the parents if needed. I guess now all responsibility/trust is lost.


Not any more! Not these days! Used to be like that at my (public) High School (10th, 11th and 12th with each graduating class holding an average of 800 students) until a few years before I got there (Class of 84). They stopped allowing those freedoms to keep a better reign on students skipping class/school, drug issues, etc. Nowadays, well, the public school system is so much different.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Lukedog said:


> Not any more! Not these days! Used to be like that at my (public) High School (10th, 11th and 12th with each graduating class holding an average of 800 students) until a few years before I got there (Class of 84). They stopped allowing those freedoms to keep a better reign on students skipping class/school, drug issues, etc. Nowadays, well, the public school system is so much different.


I don't really see what difference this does or should make to MAJ. He is not the kid's parent. He is the employees manager. His role is not to manage his employee's family responsibilities but her work.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Of the 70 or so staff that I manage, this group of 5 ladies (that happen to be divorced moms) are involved in about 80 percent of the personnel issues, plus 1 guy currently going thru a nasty divorce (with a lady who used to work here) who thinks I also should break the rules for him.

Bottom line, it's all about choices in life. You choose who to marry. You choose to have kids. You choose your employer. 

Unfortunately, my organization is old school, and requires "butts in seats" due to contract negotiations and abuses in years past. But when I try to eliminate BS excuses for absences, ultimately executive leadership (who are appointees/politicians) cave and let them off, but still complain about missed deadlines/milestones and won't approve adding staff.
You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

My perspective FWIW is that if she was a good employee and got everything done you'd be far less concerned about her taking the time off. I tell my employees very clearly what my expectations are and whether they are meeting them or not. If not and I don't see them getting better, then I start the process of documenting the deficiencies so I can get rid of them. With a union it might be hard but it's not impossible to fire someone. The other option is to transfer her to a different department/position where she has more flexibility so the kid issues don't negative affect the company.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

The OP came across as condescending against all parents for taking time off for kids. This is a common complaint and has undertones that the parent is taking advantage of the system to get a day off. The reality is that parenting is a huge time sink and the parent doesn't want to take time off for their kid either. It's a huge hassle and disruption to their life as well, not to mention putting a strain on their coworkers and putting their employment at risk. I guarantee you that parents also wish they didn't have to leave so often to take care of their kid.

Later it came out that the complaint was more about this one woman taking excessive time out for minor issues with her kid. That is a more valid issue. If she is disrupting the workplace for trivial and optional issues, then it's a problem with that specific employee. Likely if she didn't have a kid, there would be a litany of other problems in her life that would cause disruptions as well.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Of the 70 or so staff that I manage, this group of 5 ladies (that happen to be divorced moms) are involved in about 80 percent of the personnel issues, plus 1 guy currently going thru a nasty divorce (with a lady who used to work here) who thinks I also should break the rules for him.
> 
> Bottom line, it's all about choices in life. You choose who to marry. You choose to have kids. You choose your employer.
> 
> ...


And you can choose to be a good manager with the employees in front of you, or you can choose to allow your bias about marital and family issues to cloud your actions in the short term. The reason for the absence is irrelevant. What does "let them off" mean? If they still have available time, what is letting them off mean? I, personally, never even told someone my reason for having to leave. What difference does it make? I'd be talking up the ladder about butt in seat policies if that is important to them. If they are the ones making the problem, engage them in solving it.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

wilson said:


> The OP came across as condescending against all parents for taking time off for kids. This is a common complaint and has undertones that the parent is taking advantage of the system to get a day off. The reality is that parenting is a huge time sink and the parent doesn't want to take time off for their kid either. It's a huge hassle and disruption to their life as well, not to mention putting a strain on their coworkers and putting their employment at risk. I guarantee you that parents also wish they didn't have to leave so often to take care of their kid.
> 
> Later it came out that the complaint was more about this one woman taking excessive time out for minor issues with her kid. That is a more valid issue. If she is disrupting the workplace for trivial and optional issues, then it's a problem with that specific employee. Likely if she didn't have a kid, there would be a litany of other problems in her life that would cause disruptions as well.


Yup. That is why focusing on the business needs rather than the reason is important.


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

wilson said:


> The OP came across as condescending against all parents for taking time off for kids. This is a common complaint and has undertones that the parent is taking advantage of the system to get a day off. The reality is that parenting is a huge time sink and the parent doesn't want to take time off for their kid either. It's a huge hassle and disruption to their life as well, not to mention putting a strain on their coworkers and putting their employment at risk. I guarantee you that parents also wish they didn't have to leave so often to take care of their kid.
> 
> Later it came out that the complaint was more about this one woman taking excessive time out for minor issues with her kid. That is a more valid issue. If she is disrupting the workplace for trivial and optional issues, then it's a problem with that specific employee. Likely if she didn't have a kid, there would be a litany of other problems in her life that would cause disruptions as well.


I did not see any hint of condescension at all.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Betrayedone said:


> I did not see any hint of condescension at all.


I do. I see more angst about the excuse than solving the employee problem.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Betrayedone said:


> I did not see any hint of condescension at all.


Really? He hardly spoke at all about this employee's actual problems and named his title "Divorced Moms in the Workplace". 20% off his "difficult group" are divorced males (well, 1/5 or so, per his posts."

Maybe condescension isn't accurate but certainly Bias is evident IMO.


----------



## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

@MAJDEATH, if you're working with union employees I can see why you would be hamstrung on discipline. On the human side of things, when you don't have a lot of power to make things happen due to red-tape, it's easy to focus on the similarities of the bad apples. But it doesn't make that perception accurate or meaningful. I suspect you have other divorced moms who are in your group of high performers as well, yes? 

Do you have a good HR department? I like @Bananapeel's suggestions on documenting and when possible, moving bad employees to other departments that may be better suited for them (or at least off your direct report list!).

I suspect that you're 20%ers (more like 10%ers in your case, even worse! Highly disruptive!) are people who are going through or have gone through similar issues (in this case, divorce) and are clinging together. This is the problem with poor performers- it can be a contagion. I would definitely try to break that group up in some way. Management is like being a kindergarten teacher sometimes!!


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Your problem has nothing to do with marital status, family status, or anything like that, in the work place.

You have a person with performance issues. End of Story. Treat it as such. Gender, parental, marital statuses are irrelevant. IRRELEVANT.

Document your performance issues, present them to HR. If said person was a high performer, they'd work around their personal issues and make sure deadlines are met, or be going out of their way to effectively communicate about what was going on and working with you come up with a plan to cover their stuff, or what they plan to do to make sure it's covered themselves. It doesn't matter why a person needs to leave all the time, that's their own personal ****.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Try using my favorite closing line when addressing employee "issues"

"Do not let your problem, become my problem"

Looks like you work in government. Your situation is exactly why I jumped on another opportunity. And for those who think you are biased, try working with the younger generation. Absolutely worthless. Full of anxiety except on Fridays. It will lead you to be "biased". Employees 40 and up with a good work/life balance are preferred. If an employee can give me 10 good years, I will take it.

Best thing to do is move problems out slowly and watch who you hire. Take a closer look at the older generation. No problem with a bias if it is grounded in reality. That was a lesson I learned over and over again.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

TheBohannons said:


> Try using my favorite closing line when addressing employee "issues"
> 
> "Do not let your problem, become my problem"
> 
> ...


That's what my H said about the young people coming in to work these days. You can't speak to them too loudly, they don't understand the concept of 9-5. For some reason they can't seem to work the entire week without needing to go home early one day. And he had one smoking pot on his lunch break. He had to send him home. One guy keeps asking to go home because....he has so many excuses...the dog died...the wife is sick...the girlfriend need to go to the hospital....his girl had a miscarriage....

I hope my kids don't turn out like that. Because I am hoping once they graduate my financial responsibilities towards them would end.


----------



## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> That's what my H said about the young people coming in to work these days. You can't speak to them too loudly, they don't understand the concept of 9-5. For some reason they can't seem to work the entire week without needing to go home early one day. And he had one smoking pot on his lunch break. He had to send him home. One guy keeps asking to go home because....he has so many excuses...the dog died...the wife is sick...the girlfriend need to go to the hospital....his girl had a miscarriage....
> 
> I hope my kids don't turn out like that. Because I am hoping once they graduate my financial responsibilities towards them would end.


It's not only the young ones these days, there are some older ones that do the "too many excuses" thing. I work with one....she's 50. And the bosses know it, and see it.....but do nothing about it. It's maddening.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> I don't know how much power you have as a Senior Manager in your job. Thankfully, I have a lot of power as a mid-manager at my job and any person who said the above in bold to me would have Performance Improvement Plan in front of them within 1 business day.
> 
> The performance plan would include her statement and a clear statement that her job as an employee is to complete quality work with in the timelines.
> 
> ...


This is the best advice I've seen so far on this thread. 

Hopefully, you have a bit of autonomy in your position to handle first level discipline of your employees yourself. If not, this needs to be taken up the chain to wherever appropriate in your organization for discussion. 

The real problem is that she is not a good employee. This doesn't have anything to do specifically with her gender or marital status. Please be careful to check your bias at the door as a manager. If it shows through, you will end up in trouble. 

Working parents, single parents and those with obligations outside of the workplace are common. Family emergencies happen, but should not egregiously effect the employees performance. If the employee is constantly going over their earned leave time, and not making deadlines on a consistent basis, that is a legitimate reason for discipline to occur. 

FWIW - my husband and I both have jobs with the same "importance" (i.e., middle management, tight deadlines, competing priorities) and this is something that we struggle with... deciding which one of us has to answer the call when something comes up. Luckily, we are a team and we are able to quickly judge which one of us will end up hurting the least by needing to leave suddenly or miss a day unexpectedly. It is certainly not easy to juggle though. I honestly don't know how I would be able to handle it as a single parent. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

People need to take care of sick kids, they are not robots you can just unplug. If a person owns a small dairy farm the cows need to be get milked even if the owner is sick.

work above family? BTDT it isn't the right way to live.


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Handy said:


> People need to take care of sick kids, they are not robots you can just unplug. If a person owns a small dairy farm the cows need to be get milked even if the owner is sick.
> 
> work above family? BTDT it isn't the right way to live.


That will get you fired in today's environment. There is always someone standing in line to take your place. Here's the deal....IF you are a FABULOUS employee that is invaluable your superiors will often make accommodations for you with family matters. MOST problem employees are not water walkers but a persistent PITA for which they will ultimately be dismissed.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Handy said:


> People need to take care of sick kids, they are not robots you can just unplug. If a person owns a small dairy farm the cows need to be get milked even if the owner is sick.
> 
> work above family? BTDT it isn't the right way to live.


It's the American way....


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> Really? He hardly spoke at all about this employee's actual problems and named his title "Divorced Moms in the Workplace". 20% off his "difficult group" are divorced males (well, 1/5 or so, per his posts."
> 
> Maybe condescension isn't accurate but certainly Bias is evident IMO.


Nope....Not seeing it......Everything OP says makes perfect sense to me.......


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Could this…….maybe……..possibly………..be one of the reasons for the ''gender pay gap''?

Also, MajDeath, please apologize to the feminists for this micro aggression of noticing a trend……shameful!


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

OnTheFly said:


> Could this…….maybe……..possibly………..be one of the reasons for the ''gender pay gap''?
> 
> Also, MajDeath, please apologize to the feminists for this micro aggression of noticing a trend……shameful!


Excuse me for trying to deploy some trend analysis and determine what similar factors are at play with my most troublesome employees. The are female (except for the 1 guy), they are divorced, they are parents. And all in this group have enrolled in the 9-day work schedule, and listed their justification for having every other monday or friday off "so I can schedule doctor or dental appointments on the off day." Right. And don't get me started with overtime. When mandatory OT is required the single parents all say "I have to leave to pick-up my kids". So we should punish the people who plan and have a good support network?

I hope you were kidding about the so-called gender pay gap, because there isn't one.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJ.....I see trends as well. Your thoughts about women here as well as your subtle rape victim blaming speaks to a very unflattering trend.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Excuse me for trying to deploy some trend analysis and determine what similar factors are at play with my most troublesome employees. The are female (except for the 1 guy), they are divorced, they are parents. And all in this group have enrolled in the 9-day work schedule, and listed their justification for having every other monday or friday off "so I can schedule doctor or dental appointments on the off day." Right. And don't get me started with overtime. When mandatory OT is required the single parents all say "I have to leave to pick-up my kids". So we should punish the people who plan and have a good support network?
> 
> I hope you were kidding about the so-called gender pay gap, because there isn't one.


I could apply the same trend analysis to my workplace. I manage some field operations that often employ entry level manual labor positions. The position requires days up to 14 hours and they always start at 6am. Those are most often filled by young guys right out of high school or trade school. The 19-21 year old crowd of young men that come through the door are often difficult to work with... for some it is their first "real" job, often they are partying every night and call in late or come in obviously hungover... or they make up family emergencies once they've exhausted their leave and want to call out of work for last night's poor decisions. 

I have to discipline each one of them fairly, they each follow the same protocol and same disciplinary path. 

Is it frustrating - yes. Does it mean I will entirely write off interviewing/hiring/training/mentoring an entire subset of the population (in this case 19-21 year old men with no college education) - no. While there is absolutely a trend to the immaturity of these guys, I still very carefully check my bias at the door and make sure it doesn't impact my view of each one of them as individuals. 

Some of my absolute best employees have come from this pool of men... and for some of them it has come after a couple of years of mentoring by me. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Excuse me for trying to deploy some trend analysis and determine what similar factors are at play with my most troublesome employees. The are female (except for the 1 guy), they are divorced, they are parents. And all in this group have enrolled in the 9-day work schedule, and listed their justification for having every other monday or friday off "so I can schedule doctor or dental appointments on the off day." Right. And don't get me started with overtime. When mandatory OT is required the single parents all say "I have to leave to pick-up my kids". So we should punish the people who plan and have a good support network?
> 
> I hope you were kidding about the so-called gender pay gap, because there isn't one.


Dude, totally kidding…….I wouldn't give your job to my worst enemy. Can't think of anything worse than herding a bunch of cats all day. I'm in the trades, this doesn't happen. Well, it does, but the person gets a ''reputation'' and will last on any one job not more than a couple of days, then ''one man layoff''. It's a shame you are handcuffed in managing these people, especially when your overlords are bureaucrats and politicians….yuck!

Good luck!


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> MAJ.....I see trends as well. Your thoughts about women here as well as your subtle rape victim blaming speaks to a very unflattering trend.


Maybe you could start a petition at ChangeDotOrg to have him banned….or a #MeToo campaign against him….or maybe doxx him, and try to make him lose his job, or maybe………or maybe………


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > MAJ.....I see trends as well. Your thoughts about women here as well as your subtle rape victim blaming speaks to a very unflattering trend.
> ...


https://youtu.be/WAfdLsS2yyI


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > MAJ.....I see trends as well. Your thoughts about women here as well as your subtle rape victim blaming speaks to a very unflattering trend.
> ...


Nah, I wouldn't do this. I'm not some weird stalker psycho Don Quixote vigilante.

I'll just disagree with him occasionally. Because adult.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I saw a similar trend when I was an active duty military commander. In that case it was young, single mothers who wanted the stability of a regular paycheck and benefits, but forgot about the requirements of serving their country.


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> In our particular field, there are milestones that must be met and documented, thru collaborative meetings that must happen during the work day. We have team members in other timezones.


By US definition, then, your workplace is not "family friendly". In 40+ years of working, every employer I've ever had gave accommodation for parents who needed to be away from work during the day.

Collaborative meetings should be done online. Do you give employees access to your meeting software when outside the office? You should.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> MAJ.....I see trends as well. Your thoughts about women here as well as your *subtle *rape victim blaming speaks to a very unflattering trend.


??


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

DustyDog said:


> By US definition, then, your workplace is not "family friendly". In 40+ years of working, every employer I've ever had gave accommodation for parents who needed to be away from work during the day.
> 
> Collaborative meetings should be done online. Do you give employees access to your meeting software when outside the office? You should.


Collective bargaining agreements in my organization are very restrictive on telework. We collaborate with employees from other organizations that do not have those restrictions.


----------



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Collective bargaining agreements in my organization are very restrictive on telework. We collaborate with employees from other organizations that do not have those restrictions.


I'm sorry to hear that. Unions play a vital role, but sometimes they go so far as to make it difficult for well-meaning employees to get their jobs done.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Collective bargaining agreements in my organization are very restrictive on telework. We collaborate with employees from other organizations that do not have those restrictions.


I have never worked at a unionized place. But what I have observed is that even those places who did not allow it, allowing connection on ones own time to make up missed work was available.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Next time you hire - place an ad that says no women. No divorces allowed and no one with children may apply for this job.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Beach123 said:


> Next time you hire - place an ad that says no women. No divorces allowed and no one with children may apply for this job.


Believe it or not, in the Army single parents must give up custody of their kids in order to enlist, usually to grandma. Of course, they are slick and "adopt" their kids once they get in, because the benefits and pay are so good. 

And don't forget all the pregnancies that are announced when the unit receives a mobilization order. Of course you can't deploy a pregnant soldier, so she gets taken off the list. And then right after the unit leaves, she's magically not pregnant anymore. I personally saw this happen 3 times with the same soldier. Is this fair?


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> Believe it or not, in the Army single parents must give up custody of their kids in order to enlist, usually to grandma. Of course, they are slick and "adopt" their kids once they get in, because the benefits and pay are so good.
> 
> And don't forget all the pregnancies that are announced when the unit receives a mobilization order. Of course you can't deploy a pregnant soldier, so she gets taken off the list. And then right after the unit leaves, she's magically not pregnant anymore. I personally saw this happen 3 times with the same soldier. Is this fair?


Dude, nothing is fair. Expecting things to be fair isn't rational.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Believe it or not, in the Army single parents must give up custody of their kids in order to enlist, usually to grandma. Of course, they are slick and "adopt" their kids once they get in, because the benefits and pay are so good.
> 
> And don't forget all the pregnancies that are announced when the unit receives a mobilization order. Of course you can't deploy a pregnant soldier, so she gets taken off the list. And then right after the unit leaves, she's magically not pregnant anymore. I personally saw this happen 3 times with the same soldier. Is this fair?


Them darn wimmins. If only we could just bang em then shoot em.....


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Never heard of that.


 I don't know of a school in my area that doesn't have this rule. It's a big liability for the school. If the kid is sick and passes out on the way home, school could be blamed since they were with the kid before they left.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I own a business and am usually very liberal when it comes to these issues. I'm probably too lenient but I find that employees who are not super stressed about home/work life balance tend to be more focused on the job. I encourage employees who haven't taken a vacation in a while to do so. If I notice someone has a lot going on I offer them a day off to catch their breath. They have my back so I have theirs. 

As a result if we get super busy and I need to get more out of them than the usual work schedule they step up for me.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

After reading thru this thread I am now more happy then ever that I gave up my management job in corporate America and started my own business with NO employees. This thread is a perfect example of all the first world problems we have here. Corporate rigidity meets entitlement mentality.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Even though I work for a soulless corporation, I've been extremely lucky to find employment with a VERY flexible team therein. In fact, my boss is teleworking from home today to take care of a sick kid. I occasionally do the same. The flip side of that is that we were all logged in yesterday on Mothers Day to diagnose a system issue. As long as we get our stuff done, nobody gives a fig about our comings and goings.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I am keeping some other career possibilities alive on the back burner. Apparently in this organization, expecting someone to work more than 35 hours a week without overtime is just impossible for them.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> I am keeping some other career possibilities alive on the back burner. Apparently in this organization, expecting someone to work more than 35 hours a week without overtime is just impossible for them.


 Have you ever been wrong? And if so, was it actually someone else's fault that you were wrong?


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> Have you ever been wrong? And if so, was it actually someone else's fault that you were wrong?


Trigger much?


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Have you ever been wrong? And if so, was it actually someone else's fault that you were wrong?


get over yourself and pay attention, leftie.....You and your type are dragging America down....


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

john117 said:


> They require pickup within an hour here or else...


Just curious John, or else what? I’m asking because they, my kids middle school, once started down the road with me this way which was a big mistake. But I’m curious in your school what was the or else?


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> The public school calls 911 if your kid stays in the office too long. Then, you can pick your kid up at the local station.😁 The school does this because they don't want to babysit in the office.


I can tell you with certainty this would be an empty threat. Police nor dhs would respond because a parent couldn’t immediately rush to the school lol


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

As a divorced dad I had to contend with some of these issues in the work place for myself. As a supervisor I have to deal with it on the other end. My employer is forgiving, I’m forgivng as well. When it becomes a repeated pattern that’s when we start to get HR involved. And make no mistakes we will bend over backwards and get people to other shifts other days off patterns whatever but in the end you have to come up with a long term plan to address these moments. Having lived through it myself I have empathy.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Just curious John, or else what? I’m asking because they, my kids middle school, once started down the road with me this way which was a big mistake. But I’m curious in your school what was the or else?


Many things, up to calling CPS or dropping the kid at the hospital at your dime. 

Ironically kids like mine exposed to daycare germ warfare were pretty resilient, but once in a while it happened to them too. 

Also, if you're in a mostly stay at home mom type school district things are a bit different.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

john117 said:


> Many things, up to calling CPS or dropping the kid at the hospital at your dime.
> 
> Ironically kids like mine exposed to daycare germ warfare were pretty resilient, but once in a while it happened to them too.
> 
> Also, if you're in a mostly stay at home mom type school district things are a bit different.


Yeah mine tried that nonsense as well. Technically they said they would call the police so I called them on their BS and had a good chuckle :grin2:


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yeah mine tried that nonsense as well. Technically they said they would call the police so I called them on their BS and had a good chuckle :grin2:


Not around here. The local school system has nearly as much power as the federal government  or at least they act like it...

I preferred to pick my fights, and fights I did a plenty. That wasn't one worth fighting.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Well, hot off the press (the Chief of Staff must be working late). A new program at my employer announced tonight: the Infants at Work Program. Infants from age 4 weeks to 6 months may now accompany approved employees at the workplace. Details to follow.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

That's funny! Now you get a work environment with all kinds of infants around.

Nice for the Mommies. Let's see how productive that work environments is moving forward.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> That's funny! Now you get a work environment with all kinds of infants around.
> 
> Nice for the Mommies. Let's see how productive that work environments is moving forward.


Don't be a idiot. Dad's take their daughters to work too.

Maj, if they have a private office, this can work. Be open to it. I had 50/50 custody from the age of 3. I took my daughter to work quite a few times. Most of the time the baby sleeps, and it does ease the stress knowing that they are right there. The parent will want a quiet office, and work will get done. It is not an impossible scenario.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

I am surprised you actually got away with your thread. I expected you to get hammered pretty hard.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

TheBohannons said:


> Don't be a idiot. Dad's take their daughters to work too.
> 
> Maj, if they have a private office, this can work. Be open to it. I had 50/50 custody from the age of 3. I took my daughter to work quite a few times. Most of the time the baby sleeps, and it does ease the stress knowing that they are right there. The parent will want a quiet office, and work will get done. It is not an impossible scenario.


Only a select few (that includes me) have a private office, the rest of the staff are in 4 foot high cube farms of 8 cubes each. Next I can see the Union demanding that all staff enrolled in the Infants at Work Program are to be moved into the private offices, in case they need to breastfeed/feed or change diapers in private. And the staff already assigned to the offices have to move out. <a href="http://cdn.talkaboutmarriage.net/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_crying.png" border="0" alt="" title="Crying" ></a>


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

You use government funds. Get a new office building. It is our money.


----------



## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Your story changed when you said your bosses were politically appointed. If you use government funds, the Infants at Work program is not a request. It is a direct order. It is you who needs to get with the program. Voters control whether you work or not. Many of them are those divorced mom's (and dads) that pay taxes.(and your salary)

And another thing. In this environment your annonimity serves you well. This is the kind of a thread that could get you fired if exposed. Or gently laid off. I dont agree with employees getting terminated because of their private/public thoughts, but it is a reality.

Tell me you don't work at the DMV!. If thats the case you all suck. Male and Female.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Only a select few (that includes me) have a private office, they rest of the staff are in 4 foot high cube farms of 8 cubes each. Next I can see the Union demanding that all staff enrolled in the Infants at Work Program are to be moved into the private offices, in case they need to breastfeed/feed or change diapers in private. And the staff already assigned to the offices have to move out. :crying:


That would be an unwise demand on the part of the union when a single nursing room could serve. We had one set up with a fridge...


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

TheBohannons said:


> I am surprised you actually got away with your thread. I expected you to get hammered pretty hard.


Just to be clear, my original premise that the sub-group of divorced moms take more time off than any other group is still true.
And I can handle any hammering - I used to have people shooting at me in my previous occupation.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Betrayedone said:


> get over yourself and pay attention, leftie.....You and your type are dragging America down....


Hahahahahaha thank you. I needed a laugh after today's bad traffic. I am definitely a right-winger, from abortion to freedom of religion to gun ownership to not believing in "the pay gap." New wave feminism makes me vomit.

But thanks for playing. I'll go back to my full time job now, and afterward, I'll go out on my wonderful hubby's boat, where he has his pistol stashed to keep us safe.

Leftie.....lolololol sigh...that's a good one.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wolf1974 said:


> Just curious John, or else what? I’m asking because they, my kids middle school, once started down the road with me this way which was a big mistake. But I’m curious in your school what was the or else?


I'll tell you or else what. They will either call CPS or the police if you leave your sick kid there with no way home. And they SHOULD. And if I was an administrator following the school systems safety rules in doing so, you wouldn't scare me one bit.

YOU are the parent. If your child is sick, DO YOUR JOB and take care of them.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Wolf1974 said:


> As a divorced dad I had to contend with some of these issues in the work place for myself. As a supervisor I have to deal with it on the other end. My employer is forgiving, I’m forgivng as well. When it becomes a repeated pattern that’s when we start to get HR involved. And make no mistakes we will bend over backwards and get people to other shifts other days off patterns whatever but in the end you have to come up with a long term plan to address these moments. Having lived through it myself I have empathy.


THIS. In the beginning or when it is the exception, then most rational employers will be understanding. When someone abuses it or uses it is a mask for laziness, then it's time for some consequences. And when someone abuses absences, it's not a vagina issue. It's a bad employee issue.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> THIS. In the beginning or when it is the exception, then most rational employers will be understanding. When someone abuses it or uses it is a mask for laziness, then it's time for some consequences. And when someone abuses absences, it's not a vagina issue. It's a bad employee issue.


Demographics of the employer and the like will affect the common abusers. Around here, in professional careers, parents are not the abusers At All.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In reality in this PC climate, this circumstance is here to stay. Smile and move forward.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> Wolf1974 said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious John, or else what? I’m asking because they, my kids middle school, once started down the road with me this way which was a big mistake. But I’m curious in your school what was the or else?
> ...


In a previous role as a security consultant to a large public school district, I personally witnessed a principal calling a parent about coming to pick-up their child from school (for disrupting class). The parent said I cannot leave work again, or I will get fired. So the student remained in the counseling office area the rest of the day, being watched by the counselor and/or the security officer. 
There was no other option. Police refuse and so do other social services. The child also spent part of the time in the principal's office until Mom could pick her up after school. Sometimes there are problems with no clear solutions, but in this case, the school had the responsibility to care for the child.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> In a previous role as a security consultant to a large public school district, I personally witnessed a principal calling a parent about coming to pick-up their child from school (for disrupting class). The parent said I cannot leave work again, or I will get fired. So the student remained in the counseling office area the rest of the day, being watched by the counselor and/or the security officer.
> There was no other option. Police refuse and so do other social services. The child also spent part of the time in the principal's office until Mom could pick her up after school. Sometimes there are problems with no clear solutions, but in this case, the school had the responsibility to care for the child.


Neato

Did the child have 101% fever? Cause if they did, then they weren't supposed to be at school.

Look, it sounds like this woman is a lazy deadweight. But you are generalizing to all single mothers based on 5, and it's just crap.

And no, the school is not a parent. You don't get to make use of their babysitting feature just because you don't want to pick up your vomiting child.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Well now this particular staff member has exhausted all of her time for the year (for last minute time off). All she has left is some vacation days which must be requested 2 weeks in advance. All that leaves is dock time. It will be interesting to see if she will be so quick to leave work if it is unpaid time. I bet she will make arrangements for someone else to handle it.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I'll tell you or else what. They will either call CPS or the police if you leave your sick kid there with no way home. And they SHOULD. And if I was an administrator following the school systems safety rules in doing so, you wouldn't scare me one bit.
> 
> YOU are the parent. If your child is sick, DO YOUR JOB and take care of them.


And I’ll tell you that’s complete bs. I am a cop and theirs is no such criminal violation for getting to a school when you can’t on their arbitrary time line. And you can call dhs with a timeline for 2-3 day response that will work out great for you. Course I will be able to get there long Before that anyway. 


I take care of my kids just fine. Just because I am on a call that I can’t clear and make it there in a hour doesn’t make me a bad parent just a single one doing what I realistically can. In my circumstance they could have let my daughter walk the 2blocks home like she does every day from school, THEY chose not to that’s on them.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

john117 said:


> Not around here. The local school system has nearly as much power as the federal government  or at least they *act* like it...
> 
> I preferred to pick my fights, and fights I did a plenty. That wasn't one worth fighting.


This is the truth of it John. They ACT like it. Maybe if your jurisdiction it is different I don’t know. But their is no criminal law violation for it here. What we have is child abuse and the child neglect/ abandonment. Neither of these rise to the violation for a parent who isn’t able to get to a school on a 1 hour arbitrary timeline. Hell where my kids schools and downtown is more than an hour commute away. Even if my x wife got that call and left in 5 minutes she wouldn’t make it. Just not realistic for some maybe many

I do agree with you though pick your fights. I didn’t pick this one as I was understanding they have district policy they have to abide by. However when they threatened me, well with me, that was the last straw. Especially when they teach their staff to use this empty threat but none of them clearly know the law works.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> In a previous role as a security consultant to a large public school district, I personally witnessed a principal calling a parent about coming to pick-up their child from school (for disrupting class). The parent said I cannot leave work again, or I will get fired. So the student remained in the counseling office area the rest of the day, being watched by the counselor and/or the security officer.
> There was no other option. Police refuse and so do other social services. The child also spent part of the time in the principal's office until Mom could pick her up after school. Sometimes there are problems with no clear solutions, but in this case, the school had the responsibility to care for the child.


And this is correct. They can threaten all they wish but it has no teeth. The problem that I see was the district policy. It says that during school hours early dismissal, including for sick Time, the student has to physically be signed out. I can’t give permission over the phone. Because of this my daughter couldn’t leave the last 2 hours of school even though she only walks 2 blocks home to my x wife’s house. So I was on a fatal traffic crash and couldn’t leave and no one could get ahold of my x wife she was in a meeting. So as a result she sat in th nurses office doing homework. Then when the bell rang at 325 she was allowed to walk home. It just was what it was that day. Normally I can walk away from things and normally my x doesn’t have late day meetings. But life sometimes right


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Neato
> 
> Did the child have 101% fever? Cause if they did, then they weren't supposed to be at school.
> 
> ...


........You've got all the answers. The one thing that stands out about your posts is that you always have the last, definitive word each and every time. It's exhausting.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In 2007 or so I bought DD an iPod touch. She had it in her backpack but one of the earbuds was sticking out. She was written up and I had to visit the school to retrieve the errant device.

I requested that we get back our students tests to assess where they messed up. I must have been unique because we ended up at the school board to authorize it as the high school would not do it.

And many more stories like that. The only redeeming value was that I was the token PTO dad and got to work with some really cute PTO moms


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Betrayedone said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Neato
> ...


I learned that from some very special people several years ago lol


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Well it turns out that the #1 most difficult employee on my staff is transferring to a new position next month. Good for me but bad for the next manager. I will be sure to contact her and fill her in on the new employee she is receiving.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> Well it turns out that the #1 most difficult employee on my staff is transferring to a new position next month. Good for me but bad for the next manager. I will be sure to contact her and fill her in on the new employee she is receiving.


Sounds like you and your office need some champagne lol


----------



## custommultirotor (Feb 13, 2018)

I can see both sides here. That being said, I am a business owner and when I married my wife she felt she would be entitled to half my profits if u employed her as a general labor. So I had guys who have worked 12 years and got paid 14 am hour and in walks my wife, doing half the work they do and yet shes entitled to half my income. Plus she wanted me to pay for Bill's out of MY half. Her half was just for her use. Not bills, not things we needed. Nope. Just her. Not all, but some women and I'll dare to say men, just have an unrealistic view on the way life should be. If you have kids then its YOUR place to line out "what ifs" on your own time. The employer didnt hire you to be gone. They hired you to do a job and if you cant do it, bet someone can. Someone who doesn't have kids. I make that very clear when I hire a parent. Emergencies happen, but not weekly 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

custommultirotor said:


> I can see both sides here. That being said, I am a business owner and when I married my wife she felt she would be entitled to half my profits if u employed her as a general labor. So I had guys who have worked 12 years and got paid 14 am hour and in walks my wife, doing half the work they do and yet shes entitled to half my income. Plus she wanted me to pay for Bill's out of MY half. Her half was just for her use. Not bills, not things we needed. Nope. Just her. Not all, but some women and I'll dare to say men, just have an unrealistic view on the way life should be. If you have kids then its YOUR place to line out "what ifs" on your own time. The employer didnt hire you to be gone. They hired you to do a job and if you cant do it, bet someone can. Someone who doesn't have kids. I make that very clear when I hire a parent. Emergencies happen, but not weekly
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You both sound like real catches lol


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> custommultirotor said:
> 
> 
> > I can see both sides here. That being said, I am a business owner and when I married my wife she felt she would be entitled to half my profits if u employed her as a general labor. So I had guys who have worked 12 years and got paid 14 am hour and in walks my wife, doing half the work they do and yet shes entitled to half my income. Plus she wanted me to pay for Bill's out of MY half. Her half was just for her use. Not bills, not things we needed. Nope. Just her. Not all, but some women and I'll dare to say men, just have an unrealistic view on the way life should be. If you have kids then its YOUR place to line out "what ifs" on your own time. The employer didnt hire you to be gone. They hired you to do a job and if you cant do it, bet someone can. Someone who doesn't have kids. I make that very clear when I hire a parent. Emergencies happen, but not weekly
> ...


If it has a vagina, you'll defend it.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"If it has a vagina, you'll defend it."
The dictionary defines the word BOTH very well if you'd like to consult it.

That is why I used the word bith. You know, like BOTH he AND his wife.

No sammich for YOU!

And you never did answer my question about cats.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Women and Hypergamy thread, post #57......(BLT, pls)


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> And you never did answer my question about cats.


I'm starvin'


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > And you never did answer my question about cats.
> ...


If you were here you could have all you want. I only do leftovers once. Nit gonna subject hubby to a threepeat lol


----------



## custommultirotor (Feb 13, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> You both sound like real catches lol


Lol yeah you sounds like a catch also. Anyone that would come back with that. Says enough. Add something constructive. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

custommultirotor said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > You both sound like real catches lol
> ...


 Whatever. I work full time and not for my husband. My husband works full time and doesn't go around bashing me on anonymous marriage forums. We're really happy. I don't know what your problem is

Though I wouldn't be surprised if you think you know me, Considerate me that you only have 8 posts and most of them are about me or in response to me.


----------



## custommultirotor (Feb 13, 2018)

Lol yeah your real happy. That's why you're on troubled marriage forums lol lol ohhh that just cracked me up for real though!! 
And my wife doesnt "have" to work. She "wants" too. I support my family. It's what any man "should" do.  
Any"T"ways cupcake, glad you have a picture perfect marriage, because you certainly lack in personality! 
I own 3 very successful business that are global, well 2 are fairly global. You dont see me on my business is crashing forums. Lol. So, leaving me to the question of "If you have such a great marriage, why are you in these forums?" Just looking to see how bad you could have it? Just getting on to tell others how great your man is? The one who cant support you? Smh. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The good news is May 31st is the last day with my problem employee. The bad news is she is going to HR and will have a role in deciding labor relation issues.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> The good news is May 31st is the last day with my problem employee. The bad news is she is going to HR and will have a role in deciding labor relation issues.


If you are in a right to work state maybe this will work in your favor. I think if someone doesn't do their job, they shouldn't keep their job. Hopefully itll be over without a hitch.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

One more day. There is also a supreme court ruling to be released soon that could have a huge impact on union labor rights - divorced moms beware!


----------

