# Wiife Cheated With Boss - Doesn't know about staying married



## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

So, I will give a brief summary and I hope some people can help me out. 

Summary: Been married almost 6 years (in April), overall, love my wife and I know that there are some big time ups and downs in a marriage and I have constantly had to "fight" for our marriage as my wife has told me numerous times over the years that she has doubted our marriage. We have no kids and one dog. We were married young 23 and 22 and we recently were separated to find out if we wanted to make this thing work. Overall, I have some major issues with how we communicate and how she reacts to me, but I feel like I have caused some of those issues and have emotionally separated myself to cope with some of her needs. I feel like I have learned a lot in the past 3 months of separation, but now I am at a point of needing some help in what to do next.

I feel like the major cause of our separation dates back a couple of years, but within one week of us being separated, my wife cheated on me numerous times with her boss - that she still works with today. They did something sexually multiple times (she admitted to me after I caught her lying multiple times) and they are the only two people in her office - small company. She loves her job and I think she does an awesome job at her job - but she still works with this guy and has defended him and not me in this whole situation. I have told her multiple times that I have a problem with her still working with him and her answer is somewhat typical - "I don't want to lose my job in case we get divorced" and "I don't even know if I still want to be married to you." She also made a couple of videos and sent them to this guy and tells me that things are over now, but I don't know how a guy can just turn it off - I don't think I could. I somewhat believe her that things are over...Oh and by the way, he is married with 3 kids!!!

She has not blatantly said that she wants a divorce, but she said it may take her awhile before she understands why she has been detached from me for awhile. I have asked to go to couple's counseling and said that at a very minimum, that is what I ask for. I am living at my cousin's place while she lives in our brand new house (which she brought her boss to and I caught them there!) and the 4 times we have met up have been very awkward. I keep wanting to talk about her working with him and going to counseling and she just wants to act like things are casual. Every talk ends up in the same fight and I feel like I am in ground hogs day over and over. 

My main questions are these: Does anyone else see a problem with her still working with this guy? Am I supposed to just act like nothing happened when we do meet? Is couple's counseling the right thing to do next? How do I treat our meetings here in the near future. I don't want to die a slow death, but I also don't want to give up on the marriage. Divorce seem imminent if we don't get some help together (we are both seeing separate counselors) 

I am sure I will need to clarify more here, but let me know if anyone has some insight on how I can do a better job of helping with this. I am 50/50 on whether I want to stay together/divorce. I feel like I am the one fighting for resolution, but I also haven't done a great job of communicating my heart each time we meet.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I'd discuss your mutual concerns with his wife.


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

I have talked with her multiple times on this subject and her answer every time is that she doesn't know what she wants. She has no problem working with the guy even though I have a huge problem. I have asked her to work from home, but she won't do it. She doesn't feel clear one way or the other on whether or not she wants to be married - so her act of cheating is just a side note on the grander scheme of things.

The reason I am asking for advice is that I can't seem to not bring up the topic of her cheating with her boss whenever we meet up. Last night, she even defended him for about 20 minutes much to my dislike...I actually believe that they aren't doing anything, but he is the one that initiated the acts last time and there is no guarantee he won't do it again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you remain married, she MUST get another job. Sorry. The affair will never be over otherwise, even if it's not current. She'll never stop thinking about him.

I agree, call his wife. She deserves to know, and only you can tell her.

Personally, I'd wonder why you want a woman who so easily lies, cheats, and avoids consequences. Not much of a character reference, and things rarely get better.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree - this relationship between her boss and her is dysfunctional at best. 2 of them in the office all alone?

If they were different departments maybe. . .but it's too easy for them to play the "boss/secretary" game.

If she doesn't want to be married, then she doesn't want to be married. Let her go her way. I don't think you have to leave the house though. I'd move back in to spite her and acknowledge the fact of - you know what? You bought the cow. Now, you are going to have to make me happy to move out.


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> I'd discuss your mutual concerns with his wife.


AHHHHHH - talk with "HIS" wife. I thought you said talk with "my" wife...I can't even tell you how many times I have wanted to bring this up. I guess I keep thinking that she will all of a sudden understand that what they did was wrong and she can't work there. 

I guess I am too patient/forgiving and feel like I don't want to ruin her life because then she will be completely resentful of me if we do stay together, but I am definitely weighing a lot of these things, which is why I am here. I can't tell you how many times she has asked me not to tell anyone and I know that she is just trying to sweep everything under the rug and act like nothing happened. I told her last night that she needs to tell him that I know and see what kind of real man he is.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Why are you worried about what SHE wants? She obviously was just waiting for an excuse to cheat on you and did so within days of separation. What did you do during that time - you said you learned more about yourself. I would ask yourself - 

"what do I want?"


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

Help239 said:


> Why are you worried about what SHE wants? She obviously was just waiting for an excuse to cheat on you and did so within days of separation. What did you do during that time - you said you learned more about yourself. I would ask yourself -
> 
> "what do I want?"


I have learned why I have been emotionally detached and caused her to not "know" me. I have gone through some tough things personally - dad is dying, changed jobs 3 times, lived in 5 states and I constantly get rejected by my wife - emotionally, sexually, etc. She has doubted our marriage a few different times in our marriage and I can honestly look back and see where I faltered in some of my issues. Unfortunately, the way she communicates and deals with certain issues do not help.

I have done personal counseling, read through two books and am reading through "The Sacred Romance" and workbook now and have seen where some of my hurt comes from. I do know what I want and there is still a part of me that wants to be married to her, but I am getting so tired of being the only one that knows what I want. I feel like after 3 months, she would have a better understanding. I also feel like she will never really know while she works with this guy either. Who knows what he is feeding her?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes, talk to his wife about your mutual issues - explain you are concerned about STD's and such.

The reality of the situation will like throw a bucket of ice cold water onto the both of them.

Either 2 things will happen:

1. Your wife will wise up and get another job.
2. The two of them will run off together and live happily ever after and then divorce in 2 years when they realize it wasn't all as romantic as they thought it was.

Either way - problem solved.

His wife and you are "allies" in this - not to say you are "Friends" but allies. Kinda like Russia and US during WWII. You have a mutual goal - fidelty of your partner.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm going to lay it on the line for you - man to man.

She's playing hardball - she's screwing around and unapologetic. She feels "entitled" for whatever reason.

You're playing softball. You walking around trying to placate her and "work on it" because you think you are doing something wrong.

And who knows - maybe you are. Maybe you were unattentive sexually. Maybe this. Maybe that. We don't know her side. But she doesn't want to do counseling, which at the very least could work to assemble some semblance of trust, which you are lacking.

So, if you want to play hardball, this is the first pitch I am telling you to throw.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

Orcowa I feel so bad for you. This is not a fun situation to be in. I agree though with telling his wife. How dare your wife tell you not to tell anyone like she confided in you like best friends. Ugh! What she is doing to you is wrong. The fact that she knows her boss is married and has kids is freakin wrong too. Whether she keeps her job or not is really not your problem. She has some nerve bringing her boss to your house. Which I am sure she did because she knows you won't say anything. I know you are worried that if you tell the other woman that your wife will be pissed at you, however when she had sex with this man did she care how pissed you would be?


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

Scanner and believe - 

It is funny because I feel like you guys both know me after a few posts and I appreciate the candidness. She definitely knows that I am not going to say anything and I agree that I am playing softball. 

My next step is to get her to go to counseling with me as I have already called and left a message with the one I want. Once we get to that point, we can go work on the past 6-9 years of junk we have...I know that his wife has no clue what happened and I know that if I told her, she would make sure my wife got fired...

The funny part is that when I talk to my w about this, she keeps telling me how much she loves her job and how "it is completely over between them" and I know I could ruin both of their lives, but I am still trying to figure out whether or not we can work this thing through. I feel like she has to come to the realization that what she did is wrong and she needs to do something about it. 

Either way, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy in this whole thing. It is amazing what emotions and feelings do to us in the heat of the moment. She has walked all over me for years and I just sit there and take it. Some days, I don't even know what I am fighting for. I feel like it is the right thing to do since we signed up for this, but lately, I am losing that hope.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why on earth would you waste time on a counselor when all she wants is to keep getting her fix from him?

If it is completely over, she won't mind changing jobs.

Time to grow a pair, ok? You are acting like a complete wuss, and no woman ever respects - or WANTS - a wuss.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Move back and throw her out of the house. Make her decide what she really wants - you or her job with "Benefits". A leopard can't change it's spots so to speak and from the history you describe, she will find another opportunity to walk all over you in the future. 

I think Scannerguard is right also, she is using you and will do so again. I'd call his wife and tell her and then file for divorce. Depending what state you are in you may be able to also sue her boss for alienation of affection.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Just friggin man up and leave her guy. Please don't go and tell his wife. I have been on "that side" of the conversation before, and it is awkward and quite unpleasant. It is also not your responsibility. I would recommend that you just deal with your wife for the moment. 

Trust me when I say his wife knows. If she is not completely catatonic and on opiates, believe me when I say that she can sense a change in her partner. She'll act when she is ready. 

What you need to do is ascertain is your "true" motive. Are you wanting to tell out of a desire for vengeance? Surely, you can't be wanting to tell her because you sincerely care about his wife? Feel free to answer in the space provided below.

My wife at least had the decency to vehemently deny the allegations, as did her supposed partner. I'm sure that Mrs. "M" thought I'd friggin karate chop her hubby to bits in some sort of jealous rage. I'm afraid not. In a way he did me a rather large favor. I don't imagine I'll ever thank him for it, but I won't put him in a hospital for it either.

She cheated on you without even a hint of remorse. She is also deliberately continuing to see him/work with him/likely work on him. If I was refereeing this match, I'd say the game is over. Just try to leave the field with a little pride.

LIL


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

LIL and Notaclue - I appreciate the comments. I do not have any intention of calling his wife, I think it would be out of spite. She gets to live with the fact that she sees him every day and his kids come in at different times and she gets to know that she is basically screwing that up...if she even cares.

I am 90% of the way out of this relationship, I just want to make sure that I am making sure that I am doing everything I can to save it...if she is willing to work on it, which up to this point, has been very little. She still thinks it is ok to work there and she even had the audacity to defend him and tell me that he really isn't the person that I make him out to be. BLAH BLAH BLAH...

Anyway, I am fairly certain this thing will be done sooner than later. Thanks for the advice.


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## crisis1008 (Mar 9, 2010)

Orcowa, ordinarily my posts are very long and detailed, but in your case there is no need for so many words.

Your wife doesn't seem to be remorseful for her actions, but I am not there and do not see all that goes on between the two of you. If she is remorseful, desiring of your forgiveness, and wants to work on the marriage, then she must quit her job. I would never allow my spouse to continue working with someone he had an affair with. The ultimatum you have given her is more than acceptable, it is IMPERATIVE!!!!!!!!!

You are being more than considerate in giving her another chance, and attempting to trust her again.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

The goal of telling his wife isn't vengenance - it's to throw a bucket of cold water into his face and hers. It's a huge wake-up call.

The only way it's "over" if both of them approach their spouses at separate times, fess up, and then perhaps admit it was over. The fact that you know, your wife knows, and he knows. . .there is another party that needs to be privy to the information of the exchange of bodily fluids.

Just my opinion - I would want to know if I was her and no, I don't think she necessarily knows as per LIL.

I'm going to level you - in a way, LIL is right - this is a little about posturing and this is a lesson in being "Alpha Male."

Let's look at the facts, just from a cold observer.

1. Her boss pays her her salary.
2. He screws around with her and she screws around with him mutually, I assume.
3. He brings her into YOUR house, YOUR territory
4. She tells you to brush it off - get over it. So what? He screwed around with her in your house.
5. Out of some sense of "morality", you aren't supposed to tell his wife.
6. She tells you, "I'm the boss of you, I like my job, and I am going to continue working there."

Just being candid -

Sounds like your beta male, and he's alpha male.

No more beta male. . .you alpha male. You da' man, dawg!

Challenge the Alpha Dog. I don't mean you go kick his ass or get physical. . .but I take the attitude of "Your ass is grass and I'm the lawnmower buddy."

Your darker side exists for a reason. Learn to embrace it a little.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If his wife knew they were doing the deed, and knew you didn't know...would you want her to let YOU know?


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

orcowa said:


> LIL and Notaclue - I appreciate the comments. I do not have any intention of calling his wife, I think it would be out of spite. She gets to live with the fact that she sees him every day and his kids come in at different times and she gets to know that she is basically screwing that up...if she even cares.
> 
> I am 90% of the way out of this relationship, I just want to make sure that I am making sure that I am doing everything I can to save it...if she is willing to work on it, which up to this point, has been very little. She still thinks it is ok to work there and she even had the audacity to defend him and tell me that he really isn't the person that I make him out to be. BLAH BLAH BLAH...
> 
> Anyway, I am fairly certain this thing will be done sooner than later. Thanks for the advice.


orcowa what u r living is not a marriage , there is absolutely no respect shown by ur wife for the marriage . 
Forget abut counselling , she doesn't need counselling because she seems to be pretty clear about what she wants . she cheated on u because she knew u wouldn't do anything & thats why still doing it .
weather u expose this affair to her boss's spouse is not much important here, concentrate on ur situation , & ur first move should be filing for divorce without any more pleading & begging ur wife for mending her ways . run as fast as u can 

Best of luck


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

bestplayer, well said. I second the motion for orcowa to "run as fast as he can." From your posts though orcowa, it honestly sounds like you have a pretty good handle on this situation.

Please don't get distracted by all of the "alpha dog crap" that's being spewed. The goal isn't to dominate, it's to leave with things in the best possible situation for you. Just do what you need to do, as you need to do it. It won't necessarily be pretty or even easy, but eventually I believe it'll work out for the better. My experience is "good usually wins". "Choon Bee"..."Say Jak". 



LIL


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stopping an affair is NOT being an alpha male. It is doing the right thing. It is having morals and helping others who are being victimized. Helping another spouse who is going crazy wondering why she works and works on her marriage and her husband never returns her love...THAT is 'good.'


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## SurrealPain (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey orcowa, here's a Man to Man advice:

Do the right thing man! . . . . just get her out of your life!!, . . believe me, she's an habitual offender, (so is he, the boss) , they never let go of this behaviour pattern, (my ex-wife is the same, and still is, now, she's onto her second affair, after the one that broke up our marriage . .) these people are addicted!! Take action! . . move on!, you will be thanking everyone, who gave you this advice. a Few months from now, you will be over it, and a free man! No, Man!!, and No woman!!, needs to put up with infidelity from their partners, in their relationships!! You draw the line in the sand, and chuck her out the house, take back your ground!!, stand your ground!!, and Reject her, like she Rejected you!! Cut the umbilical chord!! You will be the survivor in the long run, not her!!. The cheaters, always get "Burnt!!", trust me, my ex-wife choose to go the "having affairs" route, she was dumped by the new boyfriend a week ago!!!, and the boyfriend she's got now, is playing her like a fiddle!! He also, will dump her, when he's done!!

Good luck! go your own way, and stand your ground!!


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

I appreciate all the posts - I really do. I do feel like I am a beta male with her and an alpha male everywhere else - that should tell me something. We have had a couple talks the past couple of days and I am feeling closer and closer to just being done with it. 

I have a feeling others will know this feeling - when you talk and take responsibility for something legitimately - and she says thank you.. and then continues to talk about her needs...

The hard part here, which is probably very typical for many, is that we have been together for 9 years and just letting go feels weird. I know it will be for the better and I will find someone else that will truly respect me, but making that jump and knowing she is going to turn it on me and tell everyone that she was still trying to decide will be hard - but I will have all my friends and true friends back me up because they know the situation. 

She is still telling me that she is "trying to figure it out" and she doesn't want to come back if she feels like she is going to waver back and forth. I have not gotten any remorse, guilt yes, remorse no. She is still defending her job by saying that it would be a detriment to her if she quit - once again, blah blah blah is all I hear. 

I know there are a lot of posts on here about "when do you know it is over," I guess we will never know, we just have to have faith that it is the right thing and know that God has my back on this.

I appreciate the comments!!!! Any other advice and how to deal with the manipulation that is going to come will be greatly appreciated.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It's only manipulation if you enable and allow it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Please don't get distracted by all of the "alpha dog crap" that's being spewed. The goal isn't to dominate, it's to leave with things in the best possible situation for you. Just do what you need to do, as you need to do it. It won't necessarily be pretty or even easy, but eventually I believe it'll work out for the better. My experience is "good usually wins". "Choon Bee"..."Say Jak".


You know, I have some maritial arts background and am familiar with the Way of the Peaceful Warrior but geez, if William Wallace had that attitude in Scotland, the English would be still having their way with their women.

The "good guy" doesn't always win.

It's not Saturday Morning Cartoons.

There are two issues here - Love and Respect.

First the love - that's the wild card. I don't see it here. If she loved you, she would be saying,

"Orcawa, what can I do to make you feel more secure in that I love you, not my boss? I will do anything, even eventually transition into another job." She'd be recognizing she'd caused that insecurity in you.

She's not saying that or indicating any of that to me.

I am truly sorry that it doesn't sound like she doesn't love you. . .or maybe she does, on some level but not the levels of a husband and wife.

The other issue is Respect. She definitely doesn't respect you. You tell the boss's wife, and you move back into the house and assert yourself, you will be respected.

You may not be loved. You may be hated in fact. But trust me, you will be respected.

Dude, I was where you were at - no love or respect. It's a terrible place to be. You can't make someone love you. You can make them (or just about make them) respect you.

My stb-x respects me now. Maybe as only an opponent. Maybe as only a child support check. Maybe as only the father of her children. Maybe as only a person with legal rights. But she respects me. That is one positive to come out of my divorce.

I respect my stb-x on some level but I let her know, in no uncertain terms, she was up on a pedestal before and now the respect is more grounded.

I have no idea how to make her love you again. I do have an idea about how to have her respect you, if that's what you seek. If you don't care, well, that's cool too. But it sounds like her respect is important to you and frankly, I don't blame you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

orcowa said:


> I know it will be for the better and I will find someone else that will truly respect me, but making that jump and knowing she is going to turn it on me and tell everyone that she was still trying to decide will be hard - but I will have all my friends and true friends back me up because they know the situation.
> 
> She is still telling me that she is "trying to figure it out" and she doesn't want to come back if she feels like she is going to waver back and forth. I have not gotten any remorse, guilt yes, remorse no. She is still defending her job by saying that it would be a detriment to her if she quit - once again, blah blah blah is all I hear.
> 
> ...


That's why I recommend EXPOSING the affair - before SHE spins the story to make YOU look bad. Exposure sheds light on the affair partners and makes them have to acknowledge what they did. It takes YOU off the hook. It puts people on your side. And sometimes, it ends the affair, humbles the partners, and gets them to seek real help.

But not telling people - for whatever reason - does none of that, and keeps you looking beta and weak. Even people who would normally side with you, may not, because you are taking the 'sad' way out. And like scanner says, no one respects that guy.


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## crisis1008 (Mar 9, 2010)

Orcowa, while I certainly do agree with everyone else. If your choice is give your wife another chance, then we should be supporting you with your decision, no matter how blind we think you might be. Love is blind. We don't always view things in black and white when it comes to love. When viewing things subjectively, our sight always tends to be in grayscale.

I don't think that you should tell her boss's wife about his infidelity. While it seems that no one should be playing the fool, I am certain this would not be your base principle in bringing truth to light. I do believe that your telling his wife would be done out of wanting to make him hurt as much as you do. You want his family to be torn apart too, and that is understandable. However, it solves nothing in your marriage. Focus on you and your wife. You are the only ones who matter in this situation. Her boss is a nobody. Although, I feel the need to reiterate that her boss should be nowhere near your wife if the two of you wish save your marriage. As hurtful as this may be, I believe that if she refuses to leave her job it is because she still has an attachment to her boss and may further desire a relationship with him. Her excuse that she doesn't want to leave for fear the two of you may get a divorce does not make sense to me. You have not told her that she was not allowed to work at all. You simply asked her to quit her current job. That doesn't mean she is unable to work elsewhere, where she may maintain feeling self-sufficient.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If the affair is still ongoing - and it IS if they are seeing each other every day - one of them needs to leave that work environment, or they will always run a risk of engaging again. That is why telling the OM's wife will get SOMETHING to change (hopefully). At the least, she will be more vigilant of her husband. That is not vengeance; it is responsible affair-ending behavior.

The bottom line is his wife doesn't WANT to leave the OM's vicinity.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Good usually does win SG, remember WWII? Scannerguard is advising war, but to what end? Will it prove that she behaved poorly and you didn't? That experiment was already ran and we know the outcome. She's a tramp. Do you honestly still value her opinion of you?

Frankly, I just don't see a purpose to dragging this thing out. The humane thing for you would be to put this thing behind you and focus on your healing. She has obviously made a choice, honor it, and in doing so honor yourself. 

LIL


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I was going back and reading some old posts, and I have came to the conclusion that I am a thread killer. It's not intentional. I just cannot believe how many last posts I have on threads. Ouch. Sorry guys, I try to "be nice when I pet da bunny, but Mongo sometimes crush bunny".

LIL


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## orcowa (Mar 19, 2010)

You were not a thread killer, I just didn't have any updates. Two nights ago, we both talked and we were 95% ready to call it quits. Her parents are pastors so I knew they wouldn't really like our decision and they mentioned some intensive counseling in May. It made my W think about it and ask me if I think it would be good. My original response was that we can do counseling here and we don't need to fly to another place in May to get it done. I think I am just over it, but then it makes me sad to hear her talk about getting her own place. Is that normal? 

I think about all the crappy times we had and how bad we were for each other, but it still is sad to know that it is just about over. I already have all the divorce stuff ready to go, I just have to go down and pay the lawyer fee to start finalizing everything. I assume others have gone through this same process where there are major doubts towards the end. The W doesn't tell me that she really wants to fight for it, but yet she gives subtle hints of possibly wanting to save it...I guess that just isn't good enough for me, not after all the selfish things she has manipulated me to believe over the past few years.

Are the doubts somewhat normal at the end of these things? If she were still cheating on me, I guess this would be easy, but she also doesn't tell me that she truly wants to work this thing through...

Anyway, - any thoughts would be helpful here. Do I push this over the goal line and be done or do I really buy into her words and not necessarily her actions?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, trust her actions. If she really wanted to save the marriage, she would be jumping through hoops by now.

You can always divorce and remarry later...once she has grown up.


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