# Entering Divorce proceedings



## MovingForward

So starting new thread since I am not longer 'Looking for advice on reconnecting with wife' and we are moving forward with a Divorce currently.

Original post started here - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ion/364514-need-advice-reconnecting-wife.html 

When I originally posted back in January I had already been through a few weeks of emotional Hell, ups and downs, hope to no hope and everything in between. We had good days, bad days and completely normal days together and up until last night I still had some hope that things would work out but for some reason unbeknown to me she walked in told me not to be nice to her and she needed me to sign the Summons so we can get our 60 day Windows to dissolve the Marriage and that is the last conversation we had.

Met at Court house earlier and signed papers and she has called to tell me about an appointment with a Mediator next week, I have arranged for a realtor to come and put out house on the Market and we should be up for sale by the end of the week. 12 years to get to this point and can all be over and be strangers in a matter of weeks. 

Have a IC session tomorrow with a new guy and timing couldn't be better unless it was today.

Just need to get through these next few months and hope it doesn't get messy, any advice on living in the same house and co parenting while in the divorce process would be very much appreciated?


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## FeministInPink

CMB82 said:


> So starting new thread since I am not longer 'Looking for advice on reconnecting with wife' and we are moving forward with a Divorce currently.
> 
> Original post started here - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ion/364514-need-advice-reconnecting-wife.html
> 
> When I originally posted back in January I had already been through a few weeks of emotional Hell, ups and downs, hope to no hope and everything in between. We had good days, bad days and completely normal days together and up until last night I still had some hope that things would work out but for some reason unbeknown to me she walked in told me not to be nice to her and she needed me to sign the Summons so we can get our 60 day Windows to dissolve the Marriage and that is the last conversation we had.
> 
> Met at Court house earlier and signed papers and she has called to tell me about an appointment with a Mediator next week, I have arranged for a realtor to come and put out house on the Market and we should be up for sale by the end of the week. 12 years to get to this point and *can all be over and be strangers in a matter of weeks*.
> 
> Have a IC session tomorrow with a new guy and timing couldn't be better unless it was today.
> 
> Just need to get through these next few months and hope it doesn't get messy, any advice on living in the same house and co parenting while in the divorce process would be very much appreciated?


You guys were working on becoming strangers for a long time coming, you just didn't realize it. 

Good luck with the next phase. Glad you have the new IC tomorrow.


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> You guys were working on becoming strangers for a long time coming, you just didn't realize it.
> 
> Good luck with the next phase. Glad you have the new IC tomorrow.


Your right just hard to let go sometimes. 

I am not sure if the worst is over or the worst is still to come, guess I know where I stand finally at least.


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## MovingForward

Another night down, went for a drink with a new Friend who also happens to have just gotten out of a Divorce after 18 years so is very supportive.

Still not told any of my family or Friends back home, just not ready to talk about it.


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Your right just hard to let go sometimes.
> 
> I am not sure if the worst is over or the worst is still to come, guess I know where I stand finally at least.


Some days will seem great, and some will feel like you want to die. But it does eventually get better, if you're willing to focus on yourself and do the emotional work.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

I have a meeting booked with my boss today to discuss seeing if I can adjust work schedule to accommodate Joint custody, hoping that works out so fingers crossed.


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Another night down, went for a drink with a new Friend who also happens to have just gotten out of a Divorce after 18 years so is very supportive.
> 
> Still not told any of my family or Friends back home, just not ready to talk about it.


Here's the trick: you only have to tell one person. Tell the biggest blabbermouth you know, and tell him/her (or have someone else tell Blabbermouth). Pretty soon, everyone will know without you having to do anything


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## bandit.45

Start going no contact with her as much as possible. Do the 180.


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## MovingForward

bandit.45 said:


> Start going no contact with her as much as possible. Do the 180.


Still living in same house but doing a reasonable Job so far.


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## MovingForward

Already had meeting with Boss and he was very supportive and told me they could work with me to accommodate a Joint custody agreement so that is great news, I was very worried about my work schedule and not being able to be a decent part of there lives but looking like I might be able to.

Has anyone here had success with alternating 7 days custody with an X? Children are 8 and 5 not sure if this would be a healthy living situation or not for them.

I really do not want to change my relationship with the Children and become a part time or Disney land dad.


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## C3156

Sucks to see you here, but there are others who have done the same thing. For me the worst was not living at home with my stbx but the day she moved out to her new house with the kids. That's when it became real.

It took a long time to get over all the feelings involved, be glad you have IC already schedule to help you. Make sure to take care of yourself as well as your kids. Work on increasing your social circle of people you can talk to (DivorceCare is not a bad place to start), work out, eat decent meals, and get plenty of sleep. I actually started to read some self help books on divorce and some on helping my kids.

Limit your conversations with your stbx to the kids and important decisions. Except for the kids, try to look at this as a business deal at this point. Keep everything emotionless and work through it step by step, like you would do a business transaction. Separate the house, belongings, and money in an equitable & fair manner. She has made it plain she is done, so don't pine away over something that is gone.

Make keeping joint custody of your kids your number 1 priority. Most states have become Dad friendly and 50/50 is pretty common, don't settle for less. There are other schedules available than 7 on 7 off, especially considering your kids are young. Look at 3/4/4/3 or 2/5/5/2 type schedules to ensure the kids get to see both parents often. We used a modified 2/5/5/2 which worked well (I have Mon-Tue, she has Wed-Thur, and we alternate Fri-Sun). Works for us since we were in same school district and could just use school as the dropoff/pickup point.

Keep you head up, you can get through this.


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## MovingForward

C3156 said:


> Sucks to see you here, but there are others who have done the same thing. For me the worst was not living at home with my stbx but the day she moved out to her new house with the kids. That's when it became real.
> 
> It took a long time to get over all the feelings involved, be glad you have IC already schedule to help you. Make sure to take care of yourself as well as your kids. Work on increasing your social circle of people you can talk to (DivorceCare is not a bad place to start), work out, eat decent meals, and get plenty of sleep. I actually started to read some self help books on divorce and some on helping my kids.
> 
> Limit your conversations with your stbx to the kids and important decisions. Except for the kids, try to look at this as a business deal at this point. Keep everything emotionless and work through it step by step, like you would do a business transaction. Separate the house, belongings, and money in an equitable & fair manner. She has made it plain she is done, so don't pine away over something that is gone.
> 
> Make keeping joint custody of your kids your number 1 priority. Most states have become Dad friendly and 50/50 is pretty common, don't settle for less. There are other schedules available than 7 on 7 off, especially considering your kids are young. Look at 3/4/4/3 or 2/5/5/2 type schedules to ensure the kids get to see both parents often. We used a modified 2/5/5/2 which worked well (I have Mon-Tue, she has Wed-Thur, and we alternate Fri-Sun). Works for us since we were in same school district and could just use school as the dropoff/pickup point.
> 
> Keep you head up, you can get through this.


Thanks, regarding schedule I just wanted to ensure I got normal time with them like I currently. We are seeing a mediator on Tuesday so will see how that goes, I really need to keep this as civil as possible but without being a doormat and accepting less.

I am going to see if I can refinance the house and buy her out although could be a struggle but would be worth it, really like my house and where I live so hope she goes for that would make life so much easier for all and keep things more stable for kids.


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## MovingForward

Nothing much to report today, feel good knowing Joint custody is an option but still nervous to bring it up in Mediation next week, also a little worried how she will take me buying her out the house if I ca n get cash together, I feel it would work best for all of us especially the kids and her but I have a feeling she won't like it. 

Ended up having a dream about her last night(The sexy kind, my sexual frustration is sky high) and then woke up anxious about the future of running into her when she is dating other people, that is something I am not looking forward to at all. 

Have a great Day all who read this.


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## MovingForward

C3156 said:


> Sucks to see you here, but there are others who have done the same thing. For me the worst was not living at home with my stbx but the day she moved out to her new house with the kids. That's when it became real.
> 
> It took a long time to get over all the feelings involved, be glad you have IC already schedule to help you. Make sure to take care of yourself as well as your kids. Work on increasing your social circle of people you can talk to (DivorceCare is not a bad place to start), work out, eat decent meals, and get plenty of sleep. I actually started to read some self help books on divorce and some on helping my kids.
> 
> Limit your conversations with your stbx to the kids and important decisions. Except for the kids, try to look at this as a business deal at this point. Keep everything emotionless and work through it step by step, like you would do a business transaction. Separate the house, belongings, and money in an equitable & fair manner. She has made it plain she is done, so don't pine away over something that is gone.
> 
> Make keeping joint custody of your kids your number 1 priority. Most states have become Dad friendly and 50/50 is pretty common, don't settle for less. There are other schedules available than 7 on 7 off, especially considering your kids are young. Look at 3/4/4/3 or 2/5/5/2 type schedules to ensure the kids get to see both parents often. We used a modified 2/5/5/2 which worked well (I have Mon-Tue, she has Wed-Thur, and we alternate Fri-Sun). Works for us since we were in same school district and could just use school as the dropoff/pickup point.
> 
> Keep you head up, you can get through this.


 @C3156 did you use a Divorce support group? I did a search on DivorceCare and there are a few groups in the area but only at the local Churches, if you went how was your experience?


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## Grapes

@;


MovingForward said:


> Nothing much to report today*, feel good knowing Joint custody is an option but still nervous to bring it up in Mediation next week*, also a little worried how she will take me buying her out the house if I ca n get cash together, I feel it would work best for all of us especially the kids and her but I have a feeling she won't like it.
> 
> Ended up having a dream about her last night(The sexy kind, my sexual frustration is sky high) and then woke up anxious about the future of running into her when she is dating other people, that is something I am not looking forward to at all.
> 
> Have a great Day all who read this.



Brother! Please for your sake get an attitude adjustment on the bolded underlined above. You are the FATHER and have absolutely every single right to get 50% custody. You have every right your wife has. Just because you have a penis doesnt meant you get less access to the children.

Its not just an option!! Your attitude is to settle for nothing less then 50%. There is no negotiation period! (provided you haven't been abusive and are just a normal good father dude). There is nothing to be nervous about because you are the father and are going to get what is legally yours.

No knock on TAM at all but there is a site that does nothing but help fathers get the custody they deserve. I strongly suggest you check out the site. Its a no Bull**** place where people will offer up good advice to fathers only in custody cases and D. Its like TAM on the topic of infidelity.

PM me if you cant locate the forum and ill let you know. simple google search will find it.

good luck and keep us posted


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## MJJEAN

I agree with @Grapes. Adjust your thinking. Whether you get 50/50 isn't even up for debate. The only thing that should be up for debate is the schedule.

Personally, I really like the 1 week with mom, weekend with dad, following week with dad, weekend with mom type schedule. The kids are at one house for the entire school week and then have the weekend to settle in and spend with mom or dad before the next school week starts. Also, there is time over the weekend to retrieve any special blankies or teddy bears or favoritest shirts that may have been forgotten and to make a trip to the store for anything else before Monday morning mania.

If you think your STBXW won't be cooperative during custody negotiations, figure out a way to sell it to her. After all, 50% of the time the kids would be with you. This gives her time to develop hobbies, date, work extra hours, go out socially with friends, visit family, find herself as a single woman, etc.


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> @;
> 
> 
> Brother! Please for your sake get an attitude adjustment on the bolded underlined above. You are the FATHER and have absolutely every single right to get 50% custody. You have every right your wife has. Just because you have a penis doesnt meant you get less access to the children.
> 
> Its not just an option!! Your attitude is to settle for nothing less then 50%. There is no negotiation period! (provided you haven't been abusive and are just a normal good father dude). There is nothing to be nervous about because you are the father and are going to get what is legally yours.
> 
> No knock on TAM at all but there is a site that does nothing but help fathers get the custody they deserve. I strongly suggest you check out the site. Its a no Bull**** place where people will offer up good advice to fathers only in custody cases and D. Its like TAM on the topic of infidelity.
> 
> PM me if you cant locate the forum and ill let you know. simple google search will find it.
> 
> good luck and keep us posted


I know I am just not familiar with the legal process and before my talk at work my hours wouldn't have been workable but they gave green light for me to work from home in mornings and then come into the office once I drop the children off in a before school program, my STBXW works from home with a lot of flexibility so if mediation doesn't work out and she makes it go to litigation I was not sure how a Judge would see that. I have seen some really really messy divorces and everyone loses so just trying to keep it as civil as possible obviously without giving anything up and being a doormat.

Just been really stressed but getting better, still got to agree custody plan, support, Alimon and all that fun stuff so lots of uncertainty but i am in a much better place than I was a couple months ago if it had happened then I was so depressed I would have put myself in a really bad position financially and in regards to child custody so glad my head is getting clearer each day, I just can't wait until all the legal stuff is out the way I am so out of my comfort Zone. 

I found a site thanks will start reading up on the forums.


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## Steve1000

MovingForward said:


> Nothing much to report today, feel good knowing Joint custody is an option but still nervous to bring it up in Mediation next week, also a little worried how she will take me buying her out the house if I ca n get cash together, I feel it would work best for all of us especially the kids and her but I have a feeling she won't like it.
> 
> Ended up having a dream about her last night(The sexy kind, my sexual frustration is sky high) and then woke up anxious about the future of running into her when she is dating other people, that is something I am not looking forward to at all.
> 
> Have a great Day all who read this.


After reading your other thread, I just want to chime in and say that you are handling this pretty well considering it just happened recently and that you are still living in the same house with a wife that has given you mixed messages. Only six weeks ago, you assumed that you are your wife would be married indefinitely. 

I guess that right now, you are still in a state of shock. In the next few months, there will still be some very painful times. You will get through it.


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## MovingForward

MJJEAN said:


> I agree with @Grapes. Adjust your thinking. Whether you get 50/50 isn't even up for debate. The only thing that should be up for debate is the schedule.
> 
> Personally, I really like the 1 week with mom, weekend with dad, following week with dad, weekend with mom type schedule. The kids are at one house for the entire school week and then have the weekend to settle in and spend with mom or dad before the next school week starts. Also, there is time over the weekend to retrieve any special blankies or teddy bears or favoritest shirts that may have been forgotten and to make a trip to the store for anything else before Monday morning mania.
> 
> If you think your STBXW won't be cooperative during custody negotiations, figure out a way to sell it to her. After all, 50% of the time the kids would be with you. This gives her time to develop hobbies, date, work extra hours, go out socially with friends, visit family, find herself as a single woman, etc.


This is the plan I thought made most sense to me also as it gives you a full week of normality and stability to settle in.


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## MovingForward

Steve1000 said:


> After reading your other thread, I just want to chime in and say that you are handling this pretty well considering it just happened recently and that you are still living in the same house with a wife that has given you mixed messages. Only six weeks ago, you assumed that you are your wife would be married indefinitely.
> 
> I guess that right now, you are still in a state of shock. In the next few months, there will still be some very painful times. You will get through it.


Maybe I hit the bottom so hard that the only way is back up for the time being and I'm sure once it is all done and over and we are living apart and the first night I dont have the kids that will be when it all hits me again and I hit my breaking point. 

When it first came out I was so down on myself felt like a failure and lost all my confidence as a person but posting on here has been a huge help as has speaking to the few people I have told for work/financial reasons and people help build you back up a little at a time.

Also I think the Joint custody has been a huge wake up call and relief for me since I am very hand on with the Children.


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## Diana7

As the divorce progresses it may get much harder to be in the same house. Is there any way that one of you can move out and rent for now?


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## MovingForward

Diana7 said:


> As the divorce progresses it may get much harder to be in the same house. Is there any way that one of you can move out and rent for now?


Not really I could but was advised not to for financial reasons and also want to keep house so would not be in my best interests to move. Mentally I am holding it together pretty well and just do my own thing so currently not a big deal but if things get to a bad point will look at her moving.


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## Thor

MovingForward said:


> Just need to get through these next few months and hope it doesn't get messy, any advice on living in the same house and co parenting while in the divorce process would be very much appreciated?


MF, my divorce finalized about 6 weeks ago. We were separated in the same house from January last year until September. Kids all adults, son in the house for the summer. So not the same as your situation but not totally different.

Don't take the bait. If she is trying to get you upset, just walk away. Even if she isn't trying to do it, if she does or says something which gets you emotionally off balance or angry, just leave the house. I took the dog for many long long walks!

Realize that even in an amicable divorce there are going to be conflicts. Have your lines in the sand (but don't tell her what they are in advance), and stick to them. Use other things as give-aways. If she wants the couch and you don't have a big emotional attachment to it, let her have it but use that as collateral against something you want. Don't fight over everything, but if she is picking you to pieces on little item at a time, you should hold your ground. Basically, don't let her walk all over you. Get what you want and need.

Expect surprises. For me there were a couple of items which were kind of nuclear fire. One I knew about, the other surprised me when she brought it up. You may have to walk away and come back some other time to discuss it. Or, you might decide to hold your ground on it right there. The point is, control your anger. Expect to be surprised at getting angry about something, and resolve today to keep it calm when that happens. You're going to be prickly about custody and about the house, but something for sure is going to come up and surprise you. Maybe it is the garden tools, maybe it is a painting a friend gave you. But it will happen.

Oh, talk to a lawyer asap. Even if you are going to do this mediated without lawyers arguing, you need to get a good consultation so you know how things work and what your rights are. You may need a lawyer to do some documents to be sure they are done properly. Even if you agree not to use lawyers to argue, it is smart to use a lawyer when the documents exceed your expertise.


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## BURNT KEP

MovingForward said:


> Not really I could but was advised not to for financial reasons and also want to keep house so would not be in my best interests to move. Mentally I am holding it together pretty well and just do my own thing so currently not a big deal but if things get to a bad point will look at her moving.


Don't ever move out till the divorce is final. That is one of the biggest mistakes that can be made. Check it this site and read the list and ask questions. These guys know what they are talking about and can really help you.
Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum ? Index page


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## Grapes

BURNT KEP said:


> Don't ever move out till the divorce is final. That is one of the biggest mistakes that can be made. Check it this site and read the list and ask questions. These guys know what they are talking about and can really help you.
> Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum ? Index page


This is the site i was referring to in my post. wasn't sure if we could link to other sites so i didn't. Looks like we can.

Thank you for posting this. 

Any man in D with custody issues should read and post there. 

I would not recommend women going there and identifying as a women. You will be pretty quickly shot down. Its just the nature of the site and not personal.


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## Grapes

MF - hope your doing well. I just read your other thread and Im sorry you had to go through that. Theres not much worse then the push/pull from your SO like you expierenced. Is so confusing and causes such an emotional roller-coaster its unbearable. I've been there and can really relate.

She definitely sounds riddled with guilt from your other thread. There also seems to be a sense of manipulation on her part by strumming your heart strings. In D it will be vital for you to ignore this and not feed into any of it, recognize it for what it is but separate it from the D. There is no way to know her motives at this point. For instance; she will be pleasant with you today, throws you off balance, then tomorrow she wants 60/40 on the kids. You can bet your ass that she was nice yesterday to make that request today. watch out for that. If that starts happening then you KNOW she is playing you. Always check to see if her niceness is followed by a request.

You will read elsewhere that this is war. Amicable or not this will be war. Not that you need to be savage or mean but in a sense she is your opposition now and you'd be best suited to think like that. Strategically. 

Aside from learning everything you can about your Laws (highly suggested) never ever ever give something up without getting something in return. Doesn't matter what it is, information, material items, documents, money etc etc. Negotiations 101.

Sign nothing unless a lawyer working for you has reviewed it. 

Keep posting brother. We are in the same spot for different reasons but we will make it to the other side!


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> MF, my divorce finalized about 6 weeks ago. We were separated in the same house from January last year until September. Kids all adults, son in the house for the summer. So not the same as your situation but not totally different.
> 
> Don't take the bait. If she is trying to get you upset, just walk away. Even if she isn't trying to do it, if she does or says something which gets you emotionally off balance or angry, just leave the house. I took the dog for many long long walks!
> 
> Realize that even in an amicable divorce there are going to be conflicts. Have your lines in the sand (but don't tell her what they are in advance), and stick to them. Use other things as give-aways. If she wants the couch and you don't have a big emotional attachment to it, let her have it but use that as collateral against something you want. Don't fight over everything, but if she is picking you to pieces on little item at a time, you should hold your ground. Basically, don't let her walk all over you. Get what you want and need.
> 
> Expect surprises. For me there were a couple of items which were kind of nuclear fire. One I knew about, the other surprised me when she brought it up. You may have to walk away and come back some other time to discuss it. Or, you might decide to hold your ground on it right there. The point is, control your anger. Expect to be surprised at getting angry about something, and resolve today to keep it calm when that happens. You're going to be prickly about custody and about the house, but something for sure is going to come up and surprise you. Maybe it is the garden tools, maybe it is a painting a friend gave you. But it will happen.
> 
> Oh, talk to a lawyer asap. Even if you are going to do this mediated without lawyers arguing, you need to get a good consultation so you know how things work and what your rights are. You may need a lawyer to do some documents to be sure they are done properly. Even if you agree not to use lawyers to argue, it is smart to use a lawyer when the documents exceed your expertise.


 @Thor, I can see us fighting over Alimony and I can see her making the 50/50 an issue and possibly me keeping the house and they are really the only 3 things I care about, the contents of the house i told her she can have since I want to get new stuff and make the house mine since she picked all the furniture and decorated everything.

Thanks for the advice.


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## MovingForward

BURNT KEP said:


> Don't ever move out till the divorce is final. That is one of the biggest mistakes that can be made. Check it this site and read the list and ask questions. These guys know what they are talking about and can really help you.
> Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum ? Index page


 @BURNT KEP I read the exact same stuff, luckily in my Haze I didn't manage to pull it together enough to get out, glad I can see a little clearer because I would have been taken for a fool and let it happen.

I joined that site yesterday on recommendation of @Grapes


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> MF - hope your doing well. I just read your other thread and Im sorry you had to go through that. Theres not much worse then the push/pull from your SO like you expierenced. Is so confusing and causes such an emotional roller-coaster its unbearable. I've been there and can really relate.
> 
> She definitely sounds riddled with guilt from your other thread. There also seems to be a sense of manipulation on her part by strumming your heart strings. In D it will be vital for you to ignore this and not feed into any of it, recognize it for what it is but separate it from the D. There is no way to know her motives at this point. For instance; she will be pleasant with you today, throws you off balance, then tomorrow she wants 60/40 on the kids. You can bet your ass that she was nice yesterday to make that request today. watch out for that. If that starts happening then you KNOW she is playing you. Always check to see if her niceness is followed by a request.
> 
> You will read elsewhere that this is war. Amicable or not this will be war. Not that you need to be savage or mean but in a sense she is your opposition now and you'd be best suited to think like that. Strategically.
> 
> Aside from learning everything you can about your Laws (highly suggested) never ever ever give something up without getting something in return. Doesn't matter what it is, information, material items, documents, money etc etc. Negotiations 101.
> 
> Sign nothing unless a lawyer working for you has reviewed it.
> 
> Keep posting brother. We are in the same spot for different reasons but we will make it to the other side!


 @Grapes, I will be continuing to post this is my therapy and support group 

I think I am in a good mindset mostly calm but firm and focusing on end goal of getting house, 50/50 and not being lumped with a huge Alimony payment.

Next week I am sure is when things get a little messier during the first mediation and she hears my plans for first time.


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## MovingForward

@Grapes I had a question for you since you lived in same house for so long during divorce, did your wife continue to walk around naked in front of you and not think anything of it? I find it very odd since I moved to the spare room, lock the door to the bathroom etc to keep privacy since we are technically not a couple but she will walk in and use the bathroom or walk out after a bath with no clothes on to get a drink from the kitchen.

This is all stuff she has always done so nothing new so could just be habit and I am looking too much into it but doesn't seem like normal behavior to me.

What makes it really bad is she has an amazing body and I am frustrated as hell from lack of sex.


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## BURNT KEP

MovingForward said:


> @BURNT KEP I read the exact same stuff, luckily in my Haze I didn't manage to pull it together enough to get out, glad I can see a little clearer because I would have been taken for a fool and let it happen.
> 
> I joined that site yesterday on recommendation of @Grapes


They will tell you there to settle custody first and nothing less then 50 50.


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## Grapes

BURNT KEP said:


> They will tell you there to settle custody first and nothing less then 50 50.


Which is exactly what he should do


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Which is exactly what he should do


I will be getting 50/50, will make sure of it :grin2:


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## Grapes

MovingForward said:


> @Grapes I had a question for you since you lived in same house for so long during divorce, did your wife continue to walk around naked in front of you and not think anything of it? I find it very odd since I moved to the spare room, lock the door to the bathroom etc to keep privacy since we are technically not a couple but she will walk in and use the bathroom or walk out after a bath with no clothes on to get a drink from the kitchen.
> 
> This is all stuff she has always done so nothing new so could just be habit and I am looking too much into it but doesn't seem like normal behavior to me.
> 
> *What makes it really bad is she has an amazing body and I am frustrated as hell from lack of sex. *


Well - weve been under the same roof for a while now but she's a bat **** crazy cheating pos. There is no nakedness. Instead of nakedness I get her hovering over me staring at me in my sleep. Id prefer the nakedness.

That behavior seems extremely odd. Had she not filed and asked you to sign everything my opinion would be different. but she filed. She wants D. She is taking your mind out of the game. Throwing you off balance. I cant help but think its just more of a manipulation tactic. When this happens - is it followed by a request hours/next day?

If it makes you uncomfortable then tell her it is inappropriate. Tell her that with the pending D it is inappropriate for her to be around you naked, and you would prefer her to be clothed at all times when she is around you. If you say that - watch her be completely floored that you would EVER say it. It will be a shot to her ego. The reality though - tolerating it only keeps you wanting more and not detaching.

Your goal = Custody and detaching.

Her goal = Bolded above, and its working


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Well - weve been under the same roof for a while now but she's a bat **** crazy cheating pos. There is no nakedness. Instead of nakedness I get her hovering over me staring at me in my sleep. Id prefer the nakedness.
> 
> That behavior seems extremely odd. Had she not filed and asked you to sign everything my opinion would be different. but she filed. She wants D. She is taking your mind out of the game. Throwing you off balance. I cant help but think its just more of a manipulation tactic. When this happens - is it followed by a request hours/next day?
> If it makes you uncomfortable then tell her it is inappropriate. Tell her that with the pending D it is inappropriate for her to be around you naked, and you would prefer her to be clothed at all times when she is around you. If you say that - watch her be completely floored that you would EVER say it. It will be a shot to her ego. The reality though - tolerating it only keeps you wanting more and not detaching.
> 
> Your goal = Custody and detaching.
> 
> Her goal = Bolded above, and its working


No it is a daily thing and no requests ever come from it. 

The hovering over staring sounds very uncomfortable LOL I'm glad I just get the nakedness.


----------



## C3156

MovingForward said:


> @C3156 did you use a Divorce support group? I did a search on DivorceCare and there are a few groups in the area but only at the local Churches, if you went how was your experience?


I did go to one of the DivorceCare groups and they are all hosted by a church. It was good to interact with people that were going through some of the same experience as myself and be able to know I was not alone. I am not a huge church person so some of the message filtered in biblical terms did not mean much to me, but some of the coping mechanisms were helpful. I had an amiable divorce compared to a lot of people there, so I counted myself lucky.

I have not read all of your previous post, but you sound like you are in the same boat as I was. Wife decided to end the marriage after dangling a carrot of possible reconciliation. Been there, done that. I also bought my ex out of the house. I can't say that was the best decision that I ever made. Yes, I loved the house, but after she was gone, the house was haunted with all the memories we had created and the lingering hopes and dreams we had discussed.

I ended up selling the house and buying a new house to become my home. A fresh start for a new life. For me, it was good to break the knot that connected me to my children's mother. I was sad to see it go, but the new location ended up being a great place for my kids, with a bunch of friends in the neighborhood. Plus a bunch of new neighbors that knew nothing about what happened and I could move on.

You are in a tough spot, but as long as things are amiable, hopefully you and your stbx can work through things. Mine had a pretty good head and at least wanted to work together to still raise our kids. It was a bitter pill to swallow for a while, but I put on my game face. Several years later, the kids are doing great and going off to college. Life has moved on as well personally.


----------



## C3156

MovingForward said:


> I had a question for you since you lived in same house for so long during divorce, did your wife continue to walk around naked in front of you and not think anything of it? I find it very odd since I moved to the spare room, lock the door to the bathroom etc to keep privacy since we are technically not a couple but she will walk in and use the bathroom or walk out after a bath with no clothes on to get a drink from the kitchen.
> 
> This is all stuff she has always done so nothing new so could just be habit and I am looking too much into it but doesn't seem like normal behavior to me.
> 
> What makes it really bad is she has an amazing body and I am frustrated as hell from lack of sex.


My ex did the same thing, like nothing was happening, very frustrating sexually. Got to the point I was feeling chafed from going out with Rosy Palmer to much, lol.

Remember, this is not your wife any longer, it is just a person that you are completing a business deal. Try to keep your feelings and emotions out of it to the best of your ability.


----------



## MovingForward

C3156 said:


> I did go to one of the DivorceCare groups and they are all hosted by a church. It was good to interact with people that were going through some of the same experience as myself and be able to know I was not alone. I am not a huge church person so some of the message filtered in biblical terms did not mean much to me, but some of the coping mechanisms were helpful. I had an amiable divorce compared to a lot of people there, so I counted myself lucky.
> 
> I have not read all of your previous post, but you sound like you are in the same boat as I was. Wife decided to end the marriage after dangling a carrot of possible reconciliation. Been there, done that. I also bought my ex out of the house. I can't say that was the best decision that I ever made. Yes, I loved the house, but after she was gone, the house was haunted with all the memories we had created and the lingering hopes and dreams we had discussed.
> 
> I ended up selling the house and buying a new house to become my home. A fresh start for a new life. For me, it was good to break the knot that connected me to my children's mother. I was sad to see it go, but the new location ended up being a great place for my kids, with a bunch of friends in the neighborhood. Plus a bunch of new neighbors that knew nothing about what happened and I could move on.
> 
> You are in a tough spot, but as long as things are amiable, hopefully you and your stbx can work through things. Mine had a pretty good head and at least wanted to work together to still raise our kids. It was a bitter pill to swallow for a while, but I put on my game face. Several years later, the kids are doing great and going off to college. Life has moved on as well personally.


Glad to hear it worked out for you in the end. 

We have only been in the new house shortish time frame so some memories but once redecorated and new furniture should become my own(Hopefully), some decent neighbors and lots of friends on street for kids so think keeping house will benefit them also to keep some stability in there lives during the transition.


----------



## MovingForward

C3156 said:


> My ex did the same thing, like nothing was happening, very frustrating sexually. Got to the point I was feeling chafed from going out with Rosy Palmer to much, lol.
> 
> Remember, this is not your wife any longer, it is just a person that you are completing a business deal. Try to keep your feelings and emotions out of it to the best of your ability.


Glad I am not the only one


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Do YOU ever walk around naked? If not and you don't feel like confronting, then just start randomly walking around naked. It will be amusing and send a message that she's being ridiculous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> Do YOU ever walk around naked? If not and you don't feel like confronting, then just start randomly walking around naked. It will be amusing and send a message that she's being ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not anymore but might be an amusing way to pass the time, get home from work strip off and walk around rest of evening with my piece swinging >:laugh:


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## tropicalbeachiwish

TheTruthHurts said:


> Do YOU ever walk around naked? If not and you don't feel like confronting, then just start randomly walking around naked. It will be amusing and send a message that she's being ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





MovingForward said:


> Not anymore but might be an amusing way to pass the time, get home from work strip off and walk around rest of evening with my piece swinging >:laugh:


:rofl::rofl:


----------



## BURNT KEP

Grapes said:


> Which is exactly what he should do


They also say meditation is a waste of time if you can't sit at a table and hammer out a deal on your own. Just don't expect to much from it and don't get pressured in to a deal that does not work for you.


----------



## MovingForward

BURNT KEP said:


> They also say meditation is a waste of time if you can't sit at a table and hammer out a deal on your own. Just don't expect to much from it and don't get pressured in to a deal that does not work for you.


I wont be doing that, I see only issue being Alimony realistically since no real formulae in my state and can be left to judge to decide, Child support has a state formula and regarding custody I have been doing a ton of reading and everything points towards almost guaranteed 50/50 providing no obvious exclusions such as violence, drugs, alcoholism and none of these apply to my situation.

So providing we can agree on Alimony the rest should be plain sailing(Fingers and toes Crossed) ray:ray:ray:


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## Thor

MovingForward said:


> @Thor, I can see us fighting over Alimony and I can see her making the 50/50 an issue and possibly me keeping the house and they are really the only 3 things I care about, the contents of the house i told her she can have since I want to get new stuff and make the house mine since she picked all the furniture and decorated everything.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


Yes, but ... the contents of the house have a real monetary value. Even more so from the standpoint of you having to buy new stuff. Just a few things for the kitchen can cost a hundred $. New trash cans for the bathrooms $10 or $20 each. New towels. New plates, forks & knives. It adds up really really fast. Since you don't really care about a lot of the objects themselves, use them as bargaining chips. Don't just give them away for nothing. Tell her it is going to cost you thousands to replace all that little stuff.

Alimony may be a fairly simple formula in your state, but there is always the issue of fairness. Plus you might negotiate for some kind of up front lump sum payout rather than making monthly payments for the next umpteen years.

Beware the complexities of calculating values for things like the house and 401k. Consider all the costs of buying/selling/mortgaging a house. Consider taxes on the retirement account which makes the current value actually less than it looks like. Don't exchange, for example, $100k in the 401k for $100k in a regular investment account. This is where your lawyer earns his money, figuring what those things are really worth.


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## Thor

MovingForward said:


> I wont be doing that, I see only issue being Alimony realistically since no real formulae in my state and can be left to judge to decide


Just saw this. Ok, so start writing down ideas on what is fair. Consider all the different factors. Retirement, current standard of living, kids' standard of living, taxes, who did what to help out the other get ahead, expected inheritances, likely future professional paths, etc.

Is it fair for you both to have the same $ to work with? Is it fair for one of you to pay for a few years so the other can get more training? Do both of you have good incomes already, thus the other doesn't have need for alimony (just desire for it)? It would be good to know what kinds of arrangements are customary where you live.

In the end, alimony should somehow be fair. Fair doesn't mean equal, just fair.


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## SunCMars

C3156 said:


> My ex did the same thing, like nothing was happening, very frustrating sexually. Got to the point I was feeling chafed from going out with Rosy Palmer to much, lol.
> 
> Remember, this is not your wife any longer, it is just a person that you are completing a business deal. Try to keep your feelings and emotions out of it to the best of your ability.


Remember this. let it burn in your mind.

Your wife is walking around naked in front of you for a specific reason. To let you see what you are missing. To rub it in.

Or, she wants you to try something so that she can slap you down. She wants to see if you still want her. To see [she hopes] if she still has power over you.

Or, she is horny and wants you to take her. She will never initiate..uh, uh. But if you ask her nice..or you grab her...she will pretend to give it you...oh, so reluctantly.

It is a female thing...believe me. Women know their allure.

If she hated you....all those goodies would be under wrap.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> Just saw this. Ok, so start writing down ideas on what is fair. Consider all the different factors. Retirement, current standard of living, kids' standard of living, taxes, who did what to help out the other get ahead, expected inheritances, likely future professional paths, etc.
> 
> Is it fair for you both to have the same $ to work with? Is it fair for one of you to pay for a few years so the other can get more training? Do both of you have good incomes already, thus the other doesn't have need for alimony (just desire for it)? It would be good to know what kinds of arrangements are customary where you live.
> 
> In the end, alimony should somehow be fair. Fair doesn't mean equal, just fair.


Currently my income pays for everything and she is building a new Career which pays OK and is set to increase to a much higher level over the next few years. I feel like her having the entire contents of the house and a large deposit possible 6 figures to put down on a new house that Alimony is not really fair or needed as she will have lowish mortgage payment and a fully furnished house with lots of nice expensive items she picked and I paid for. 

I know its law and to protect etc but for me Alimony seems so unfair its like you don't want me but you want me to maintain your lifestyle and to continue to use my resources maybe i am just bitter.


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## MovingForward

SunCMars said:


> Remember this. let it burn in your mind.
> 
> Your wife is walking around naked in front of you for a specific reason. To let you see what you are missing. To rub it in.
> 
> Or, she wants you to try something so that she can slap you down. She wants to see if you still want her. To see [she hopes] if she still has power over you.
> 
> Or, she is horny and wants you to take her. She will never initiate..uh, uh. But if you ask her nice..or you grab her...she will pretend to give it you...oh, so reluctantly.
> 
> It is a female thing...believe me. Women know their allure.
> 
> If she hated you....all those goodies would be under wrap.


Sex and Naked females are definitely a guys Achilles heel. :smile2:


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## Thor

MovingForward said:


> Currently my income pays for everything and she is building a new Career which pays OK and is set to increase to a much higher level over the next few years. I feel like her having the entire contents of the house and a large deposit possible 6 figures to put down on a new house that Alimony is not really fair or needed as she will have lowish mortgage payment and a fully furnished house with lots of nice expensive items she picked and I paid for.
> 
> I know its law and to protect etc but for me Alimony seems so unfair its like you don't want me but you want me to maintain your lifestyle and to continue to use my resources maybe i am just bitter.


I don't know how the courts tend to go on alimony where you live. What seems fair to me, given just the tiny bits you've posted here, would be short term alimony to allow her to get on her feet. The distribution of current assets might be fair at 50/50, but then again maybe not.

Let's assume you weren't getting divorced. Her income would go up nicely over the next few years. Your lifestyle would go up quite a bit as a result. You two are living ok on your income primarily right now, and you've established a nice home and some financial assets. So her increased income would be gravy on top, allowing some luxuries or perhaps savings towards and early retirement.

But since you are getting divorced, you should not suffer a large decrease in quality of life at the expense of her having a nice quality of life. That is, her income is going to go up nicely. In a few years then, she should not be set up with a nice furnished home and a nice financial situation at your expense.

I think some short term sacrifice on your part so that she doesn't live a much lower lifestyle is ok. Not that you should have equal lifestyles, but she shouldn't be moving to a trailer while you are staying in a nice house with luxuries. And then in the long term you should both have lifestyles commensurate with your own achievements. If I understand correctly, you've been married 12 years? This does not entitle either one of you to live off of the labors of the other forever.

I would look at the property settlement and alimony as a package. You provided her with financial support over a number of yeas so that she could pursue her desired career. She benefited from your generosity. Might she argue you benefited from her giving up some of her earning potential to raise the kids or to enable you to work your career? You could offer a bit more assets up front and not pay any alimony. Or you could be harsh on the assets now and offer some decreasing alimony over the next few years as her income will go up.

Alimony can be evil, and I would be cautious about it. For me, alimony would have been nuclear war, so I understand your feelings on it!


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## MovingForward

So quick update.

Went to my new IC lastnight, this is the one who specialized in men and emotionally reconnecting couples. All day at work I was confident, excited I had a plan in place, hopeful for future, total acceptance marriage was over and generally feeling pretty good about the future.

The moment I walked into the office all my emotions came to the surface again and I felt awful about life, the situation and couldn't really give him an answer on what I wanted. He asked a lot of questions and seemed to piece together pretty quickly how things had progressed over the last few months, he described what she had felt and how I would have reacted and why we both did we did and then told me straight up this is totally fixable as long as she has a 1% doubt that she is making the right decision. He went on to explain that we were in a Pursuit/Withdrawal cycle and when I go home if she asks anything to tell her what we talked about, when I got home she did ask and I did tell her and she started reading articles on it and then joked maybe she should go see this person to see if he can fix her. 

I told him at this point I dont want to save anything I just want to move on since the trust and security from the relationship has gone and I cant go through that again and he told me that how I am feeling right now is the same place she has been in and people do flip back and forth.

He also told me that he doesn't think I am allowing myself to grieve the relationship or that I have truly accepted its over(somewhat agree) and he told me in order for him to help me going forward if I do still love her then I should go talk to her one final time and tell her how I feel about her and that I didn't want this, apologize for any past hurt and then I will be able to look back without any regret in the future and not think what if I had done this or that. I did say I do not think this part is possible for me at this stage but I would give it some thought to which he said I can't make you do anything and she could be done and it will hurt really bad if she is but then you will truly be ready to start healing properly so sleep on it.

Anyway pretty deep stuff from my point of view so thought I would share it, woke up today in the same mindset as yesterday ready to move forward with a new life.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> I don't know how the courts tend to go on alimony where you live. What seems fair to me, given just the tiny bits you've posted here, would be short term alimony to allow her to get on her feet. The distribution of current assets might be fair at 50/50, but then again maybe not.
> 
> Let's assume you weren't getting divorced. Her income would go up nicely over the next few years. Your lifestyle would go up quite a bit as a result. You two are living ok on your income primarily right now, and you've established a nice home and some financial assets. So her increased income would be gravy on top, allowing some luxuries or perhaps savings towards and early retirement.
> 
> But since you are getting divorced, you should not suffer a large decrease in quality of life at the expense of her having a nice quality of life. That is, her income is going to go up nicely. In a few years then, she should not be set up with a nice furnished home and a nice financial situation at your expense.
> 
> I think some short term sacrifice on your part so that she doesn't live a much lower lifestyle is ok. Not that you should have equal lifestyles, but she shouldn't be moving to a trailer while you are staying in a nice house with luxuries. And then in the long term you should both have lifestyles commensurate with your own achievements. If I understand correctly, you've been married 12 years? This does not entitle either one of you to live off of the labors of the other forever.
> 
> I would look at the property settlement and alimony as a package. You provided her with financial support over a number of yeas so that she could pursue her desired career. She benefited from your generosity. Might she argue you benefited from her giving up some of her earning potential to raise the kids or to enable you to work your career? You could offer a bit more assets up front and not pay any alimony. Or you could be harsh on the assets now and offer some decreasing alimony over the next few years as her income will go up.
> 
> Alimony can be evil, and I would be cautious about it. For me, alimony would have been nuclear war, so I understand your feelings on it!


The state I live in assets are usually divided equally 50/50. 

My frustrations are I have put everything into a Job and the kids while neglecting a social life so she could build social connections and have fun, I didn't want her to give up her career but she chose to anyway and her staying at home did not make any difference to my career other than add more stress to me to provide. By staying at home she has found a new career which long term is going to pay much more than her past and makes use of her degree so I feel a little used and resentful at this point, I have been making really good money for a number of years and don't spend any of it on myself I have put it all into making sure we are financially secure, I literally have nothing to show for it and none of the thing I wanted to buy or do. Sorry just venting a little.


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## TheTruthHurts

Seems to me her career investment is a marital asset


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Here's the trick: you only have to tell one person. Tell the biggest blabbermouth you know, and tell him/her (or have someone else tell Blabbermouth). Pretty soon, everyone will know without you having to do anything


Finally plucked up courage to tell parents, it was a big relief and they were really supportive. Finally talking to certain people is a big big help.


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## TheTruthHurts

I would try to make a case regarding the investment of marital assets over the 12 year period. Of course I was an accountant, but if you can sketch out a spreadsheet of net income then an estimate of where it went over time that's your marital investment. At a minimum it will show a moderator and your w why you think a particular final settlement is fair


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

That's another reason others have said to sketch out all the household items too. People don't really have a handle on where all the money goes - particularly when they're not earning it - so this will show your point of view


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> That's another reason others have said to sketch out all the household items too. People don't really have a handle on where all the money goes - particularly when they're not earning it - so this will show your point of view
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes this is very true.


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Finally plucked up courage to tell parents, it was a big relief and they were really supportive. Finally talking to certain people is a big big help.


When people know what's going, they can be supportive. If you don't tell people, they can't help you. And the people who love you will want to help you.

Except crappy people who aren't good at being helpful and supportive. Don't deal with them. That's why I don't tell my mom anything. But that's me and not you. I would bet money that your parents are more helpful and supportive than mine tend to be.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> Yes, but ... the contents of the house have a real monetary value. Even more so from the standpoint of you having to buy new stuff. Just a few things for the kitchen can cost a hundred $. New trash cans for the bathrooms $10 or $20 each. New towels. New plates, forks & knives. It adds up really really fast. Since you don't really care about a lot of the objects themselves, use them as bargaining chips. Don't just give them away for nothing. Tell her it is going to cost you thousands to replace all that little stuff.
> 
> Alimony may be a fairly simple formula in your state, but there is always the issue of fairness. Plus you might negotiate for some kind of up front lump sum payout rather than making monthly payments for the next umpteen years.
> 
> Beware the complexities of calculating values for things like the house and 401k. Consider all the costs of buying/selling/mortgaging a house. Consider taxes on the retirement account which makes the current value actually less than it looks like. Don't exchange, for example, $100k in the 401k for $100k in a regular investment account. This is where your lawyer earns his money, figuring what those things are really worth.


Good idea on using them for Bargaining i didn't even think of that, thanks for bringing that up.


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> When people know what's going, they can be supportive. If you don't tell people, they can't help you. And the people who love you will want to help you.
> 
> Except crappy people who aren't good at being helpful and supportive. Don't deal with them. That's why I don't tell my mom anything. But that's me and not you.  I would bet money that your parents are more helpful and supportive than mine tend to be.


They were great and I knew they would be was just a hard thing to break to them or talk about in general.


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## 3Xnocharm

WOW, you need new IC ASAP!! What a freaking moron! Thank goodness you still had your sense about you this morning.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> WOW, you need new IC ASAP!! What a freaking moron! Thank goodness you still had your sense about you this morning.


The IC still seems focused on trying to repair the marriage, and that really isn't helping the OP move forward.

OP, I think you need to be straight up with this IC and tell him you need help moving forward in a healthy way, and if he can't help you with that, then you need to find another IC that will.


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> The IC still seems focused on trying to repair the marriage, and that really isn't helping the OP move forward.
> 
> OP, I think you need to be straight up with this IC and tell him you need help moving forward in a healthy way, and if he can't help you with that, then you need to find another IC that will.


I agree, he asked me to email him in the morning on how I was feeling so I emailed and told him 

'I woke up with the same mindset, I have been focusing on new future without her, the parts the marriage I wasn't happy with, the things I have not done or been able to do, the free time I will have to rediscover myself, have hobbies again and I am excited for this since it has been a long time since I have taken time to just be me'


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## MovingForward

Latest update. 

Stbxw wants to do MC but also still maintain apontments with mediator, told he one or the other and to tell me today. Not sure I want to save anything anymore but if she commits to MC and working on 'us' 100% I would give it a shot since kids involved and feel like after 12 years I owe it to myself to make sure I did everything I could have. Still feeling pretty strong on getting out of this and moving on but have a little doubt I need to remove.


----------



## golfpanther

MovingForward said:


> Latest update.
> 
> Stbxw wants to do MC but also still maintain apontments with mediator, told he one or the other and to tell me today. Not sure I want to save anything anymore but if she commits to MC and working on 'us' 100% I would give it a shot since kids involved and feel like after 12 years I owe it to myself to make sure I did everything I could have. Still feeling pretty strong on getting out of this and moving on but have a little doubt I need to remove.


If you two do go to MC be prepared for the therapist to ask for the divorce to be put on hold. The specter of the divorce looming over your sessions would create a serious problem because she would have so much leverage and there'd be this giant ticking clock for the therapy. Is she prepared to do that if the therapist tells you two that it's the best course of action?

Also, that's a pretty big update. What happened? Why does she suddenly want to try MC? Your first post was on the 27th of February; that's only a week ago! Maybe this got started a bit before that but it would still be a rather abrupt change.


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## 3Xnocharm

Dont do it. Tell her to pound sand.


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## Grapes

Your wife seems to be all over the place. She wants D, gets you to meet at courthouse and sign, then shes all nice, then shes walking around naked, then asking for MC.

She is just all over the place.

Not sure what to make of it honestly because it all just seems to irrationally move from one place to the next.

I dont mean to intrude but has she ever been on prescribed drugs or something like that? History of depression etc?


Or she is buttering you up for something. I haven't a clue.


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## 3Xnocharm

Right, so he needs to make that final decision FOR HER and proceed with the divorce. He would be right back here again in less than a year.


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## Grapes

I agree - Even if there isnt infidelity when a spouse just drops you like a bad habit there is alot of trust lost. Trust in that they speak when things bother them instead of just waiting to drop bombs.

i agree, make the decision for her.


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## MovingForward

golfpanther said:


> If you two do go to MC be prepared for the therapist to ask for the divorce to be put on hold. The specter of the divorce looming over your sessions would create a serious problem because she would have so much leverage and there'd be this giant ticking clock for the therapy. Is she prepared to do that if the therapist tells you two that it's the best course of action?
> 
> Also, that's a pretty big update. What happened? Why does she suddenly want to try MC? Your first post was on the 27th of February; that's only a week ago! Maybe this got started a bit before that but it would still be a rather abrupt change.


No it really moves this fast, no consistency at all its very confusing and I really don't know what to make of it.


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Your wife seems to be all over the place. She wants D, gets you to meet at courthouse and sign, then shes all nice, then shes walking around naked, then asking for MC.
> 
> She is just all over the place.
> 
> Not sure what to make of it honestly because it all just seems to irrationally move from one place to the next.
> 
> I dont mean to intrude but has she ever been on prescribed drugs or something like that? History of depression etc?
> 
> 
> Or she is buttering you up for something. I haven't a clue.


Yes all over the place, she has been falling apart the last few days. This has been my battle since beginning my first thread, she does/doesn't and at beginning power ratio was 100/0 her to me, I was begging etc and taking the licks while she left me in the dark and It was a really terrible time, I have been up and down so many times I finally managed to mostly detach, accept and move on mentally but it seems like the choice not solely being hers anymore is adding a lot of stress to her and she broke down in public Saturday and Sunday spent the entire day in bed.

She had a bout of depression almost 10 years ago and was very similar to how she is currently, once it was treated/passed she regretted a lot of the decisions we made because of it. I told her this and asked her outright and was told she is happy with everything in her life except our marriage.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Right, so he needs to make that final decision FOR HER and proceed with the divorce. He would be right back here again in less than a year.


And this is my worry, this experience is something I never want to go through again. I just feel li


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> I agree - Even if there isnt infidelity when a spouse just drops you like a bad habit there is alot of trust lost. Trust in that they speak when things bother them instead of just waiting to drop bombs.
> 
> i agree, make the decision for her.


It really is down to trust I would love to turn back the clock but cannot see how that trust can ever be repaired.

Honestly I dont think I will ever truly trust any one ever again and that is not a healthy mindset to future relationships but that is really where I am at!!!!


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## phillybeffandswiss

This upsets people, but let's be pragmatic. I know you have 12 years in, but if there were no kids would you stay?


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## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This upsets people, but let's be pragmatic. I know you have 12 years in, but if there were no kids would you stay?


It would be less complicated and confusing since I have tried to put that question to myself a few times and not sure how much that affects my choices but if she could say she was 100% in and show the same I would try but she can't so I won't.


----------



## Absurdist

MovingForward - have you noticed a dynamic here? On February 17 you wrote this in your first thread:

_So driving back from the mediator I tell her I am visiting a new counselor next week and it was one she had heard good things about, he specializes in Counseling men and also emotionally reconnecting couple I told her I have booked a individual session but if she wanted we could change it to a Joint session WRONG MOVE she tells me she doesn't want to be married and she is not in love with me and just wants to be happy and that's not with me._

Counseling was your idea and it was rejected.

Now she wants to go to marriage counseling but still keep her options open with the mediator.

Her head is a big bag of cats all clawing to get out and do.... that which she does not know.

OP she has self image problems, self esteem problems, probable depression and who knows what else.

Ultimately, you are the one who will be required to make the decision. She is incapable of doing so herself.

Are you up to the task?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Thanks. This is actually a good answer. There comes a point where YOU need to make decisions. Yes, even an unsure one. 

You say you can't take it, but will for the kids.
You say you can't take it, but will for your wife.

It is okay to put yourself first sometimes, even if it seems wrong. I'm not assessing blame, I'm pointing out indecision. You are letting her dictate everything right now.
She was sure enough to set up mediation and meet you on the court steps. She told you no on counseling as Absurdist just reminded me. If anything, I'd wait until mediation to do any marriage counseling because I've watched too many spouses lambasted later on.


----------



## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> MovingForward - have you noticed a dynamic here? On February 17 you wrote this in your first thread:
> 
> _So driving back from the mediator I tell her I am visiting a new counselor next week and it was one she had heard good things about, he specializes in Counseling men and also emotionally reconnecting couple I told her I have booked a individual session but if she wanted we could change it to a Joint session WRONG MOVE she tells me she doesn't want to be married and she is not in love with me and just wants to be happy and that's not with me._
> 
> Counseling was your idea and it was rejected.
> 
> Now she wants to go to marriage counseling but still keep her options open with the mediator.
> 
> Her head is a big bag of cats all clawing to get out and do.... that which she does not know.
> 
> OP she has self image problems, self esteem problems, probable depression and who knows what else.
> 
> Ultimately, you are the one who will be required to make the decision. She is incapable of doing so herself.
> 
> Are you up to the task?


I really don't know what I am up for, this is so mentally and emotionally taxing i really don't know what to think, the moment i let my guard down for a second or think about the situation its just ruins me. Just been out for a few drinks and was not a good idea.


----------



## farsidejunky

Limbo ends when you decide it ends.


----------



## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Thanks. This is actually a good answer. There comes a point where YOU need to make decisions. Yes, even an unsure one.
> 
> You say you can't take it, but will for the kids.
> You say you can't take it, but will for your wife.
> 
> It is okay to put yourself first sometimes, even if it seems wrong. I'm not assessing blame, I'm pointing out indecision. You are letting her dictate everything right now.
> She was sure enough to set up mediation and meet you on the court steps. She told you no on counseling as Absurdist just reminded me. If anything, I'd wait until mediation to do any marriage counseling because I've watched too many spouses lambasted later on.


I know even when I feel like I am acting/being strong I am still showing weakness.

Regarding mediation I think she feels she is going to go in and take everything she wants, large child support, large alimony, big payout, 80% custody etc. and when that does not happen(hopefully) I do not want that to affect her decision or make her take a step back and regroup to get better prepared in future. As someone said earlier on this thread could be in the same situation in 12 month so wanted her to either fully commit before we go or its done and I can't turn back but I really don't think I want that.

I do still love her but this situation has put me with my back against the wall, I feel like I need to get out and look after myself and then once all the legal stuff is out the way could potentially look at talking again, I just don't know things change so fast and my heads all messed up, I can spend entire day feeling great and then I just plummet to rock bottom out of nowhere. I want to be with her and the thought of her moving on with someone else or the kids having a step dad in the future just crushes me. Hope these phases become less and less common its so overwhelming. 

I have to call shortly to talk to children so i guess I will know where this is heading tonight.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Limbo ends when you decide it ends.


That is the truth just takes some balls to make it and I have not quite got them hanging low enough :smile2:


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## Thor

Guard your own interests. MC could be a softening up strategy to get you to go along with a divorce settlement favorable to her. I don't think you should be doing both mediation and MC at the same time. Mediation involves conflict and emotional distress even when it goes well. You cannot be generous and loving in mediation, yet MC has the goal of you both being more generous and loving towards each other.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> Guard your own interests. MC could be a softening up strategy to get you to go along with a divorce settlement favorable to her. I don't think you should be doing both mediation and MC at the same time. Mediation involves conflict and emotional distress even when it goes well. You cannot be generous and loving in mediation, yet MC has the goal of you both being more generous and loving towards each other.


This is exactly what I told her, if we are doing MC we need to be 100% committed to MC or it is waste of time, mediation is a business meeting both looking out for our own best interests so two entirely contradictory goals that cannot work in conjunction together.

I want to be ready to give up but i have a tiny little piece of me that is not quite ready and I wish it would go F itself, I can go almost all day happy and ready to move on and this little doubt comes back and haunts me, not sure if it is fear, grief, breaking up family, children, uncertainty but its there and won't stop reappearing.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> I really don't know what I am up for, this is so mentally and emotionally taxing i really don't know what to think, the moment i let my guard down for a second or think about the situation its just ruins me. Just been out for a few drinks and was not a good idea.


If you tell her no to MC will she fight to save the marriage or just say ok let's continue the divorce?


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> If you tell her no to MC will she fight to save the marriage or just say ok let's continue the divorce?


I wish I knew that answer, I have given an ultimatum on MC so I will be finding out at some point today. Really not sure if the answer will give me relief or not. 

I would never wish the pain of divorce on anyone it is just torturous and from what i have read on this forum my situation is relatively tame compared with a lot of other.


----------



## Grapes

MovingForward said:


> It really is down to trust I would love to turn back the clock but cannot see how that trust can ever be repaired.
> 
> Honestly I dont think I will ever truly trust any one ever again and that is not a healthy mindset to future relationships but that is really where I am at!!!!


I can completely relate brother! Im there with you myself!


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## Marc878

You can't make her do anything as you've found. You need to go your own way. Quit letting your weakness for her define you. 

People will treat you like you let them. Go full bore for the D. You'd better get strong and protect your finances. Do not give anything more than the law will allow. Less if you can. Long term it's all about finances. No one is going to look after you or fix this. You have to do it.

Read up and apply it. You're lingering in a self imposed limbo.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=2aBvF60hLd7Ju.ayOBYvZH4eN5s-


----------



## Affaircare

May I suggest one possibility, @MovingForward ? 

Maybe it is not the real HER that you want to be with--the woman she truly is, how she acts, how she treats you, etc--but the "ideal her" that you wish she was. 

Could that be possible?

Because the woman she truly is, does not treat you with kindness, gentleness, thoughtfulness, patience, peacefulness, goodness or faithfulness. The woman she truly is has hurt you irrepairably and doesn't care. The woman she truly is has dropped a bomb and exploded this family and doesn't care. The woman she truly is has manipulated you from day one, emotionally abused you, and attempted to control you through her manipulation and abuse! The woman she truly is has been unfaithful in body and mind. 

BUT the woman you wish she was treats you with love, cares for you, is a good mother, and is a good wife. 

I propose that the person you want...what you SO DEEPLY LONG FOR... is not who she truly is, but rather who you wish she would be!!


Further, right now she knows that she "has the reigns" because you hope she'll do better and "mean it this time"... so she keeps laying out the bait and hooking you, and you keep walking right into her trap. THIS TIME, instead of falling for her bait (aka "Let's go to MC!") may I recommend that you decline that offer? You can choose to stop taking the bait, you know. 

Instead of taking the bait, how about if you take the reigns of your own life back and say that you choose to continue with the mediation...and in the back of your head you say "I am willing to *observe *for the next six months and objectively observe if anything about her changes or improves. I will let her ACTIONS show me if she has had a change of heart. And in 6 months if I do not see a change in her actions--by then the divorce will be far enough along I can choose to just let it finalize."? 

Hey I am a big supporter of keeping marriages together where there are children involved, and I truly believe in honoring promises! In *your *instance, I believe if she does not want the mediation, her ACTIONS have to change, from her heart. She has to become a different person. I personally do not hold out a lot of hope of that happening, but if you want to give her to time to show you BY HER ACTIONS that something inside her has fundamentally changed...then take some time. It won't hurt. BUT something inside her has to fundamentally change in order for things to be different here. 

Right now, what I see is someone who does not want to experience the natural consequence of their choices. SHE destroyed the family and living without "hurts her" so she is squirming. I do not see someone who has gone to tons of personal IC and changed, or gone to recovery and changed, or had a true religious experience and changed...and if she has not changed, then that means things will "be the way they've always been." 

Is that what you want? If your answer is no, then continue with the mediation.


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> I can completely relate brother! Im there with you myself!


And it SUCKS :cussing: :banghead::cussing::rant:


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> You can't make her do anything as you've found. You need to go your own way. Quit letting your weakness for her define you.
> 
> People will treat you like you let them. Go full bore for the D. You'd better get strong and protect your finances. Do not give anything more than the law will allow. Less if you can. Long term it's all about finances. No one is going to look after you or fix this. You have to do it.
> 
> Read up and apply it. You're lingering in a self imposed limbo.
> http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=2aBvF60hLd7Ju.ayOBYvZH4eN5s-


Yes this is the truthissed: the fully accepting its done is the final piece and just trying to let go.


----------



## MovingForward

Affaircare said:


> May I suggest one possibility, @MovingForward ?
> 
> Maybe it is not the real HER that you want to be with--the woman she truly is, how she acts, how she treats you, etc--but the "ideal her" that you wish she was.
> 
> Could that be possible?
> 
> Because the woman she truly is, does not treat you with kindness, gentleness, thoughtfulness, patience, peacefulness, goodness or faithfulness. The woman she truly is has hurt you irrepairably and doesn't care. The woman she truly is has dropped a bomb and exploded this family and doesn't care. The woman she truly is has manipulated you from day one, emotionally abused you, and attempted to control you through her manipulation and abuse! The woman she truly is has been unfaithful in body and mind.
> 
> BUT the woman you wish she was treats you with love, cares for you, is a good mother, and is a good wife.
> 
> I propose that the person you want...what you SO DEEPLY LONG FOR... is not who she truly is, but rather who you wish she would be!!
> 
> 
> Further, right now she knows that she "has the reigns" because you hope she'll do better and "mean it this time"... so she keeps laying out the bait and hooking you, and you keep walking right into her trap. THIS TIME, instead of falling for her bait (aka "Let's go to MC!") may I recommend that you decline that offer? You can choose to stop taking the bait, you know.
> 
> Instead of taking the bait, how about if you take the reigns of your own life back and say that you choose to continue with the mediation...and in the back of your head you say "I am willing to *observe *for the next six months and objectively observe if anything about her changes or improves. I will let her ACTIONS show me if she has had a change of heart. And in 6 months if I do not see a change in her actions--by then the divorce will be far enough along I can choose to just let it finalize."?
> 
> Hey I am a big supporter of keeping marriages together where there are children involved, and I truly believe in honoring promises! In *your *instance, I believe if she does not want the mediation, her ACTIONS have to change, from her heart. She has to become a different person. I personally do not hold out a lot of hope of that happening, but if you want to give her to time to show you BY HER ACTIONS that something inside her has fundamentally changed...then take some time. It won't hurt. BUT something inside her has to fundamentally change in order for things to be different here.
> 
> Right now, what I see is someone who does not want to experience the natural consequence of their choices. SHE destroyed the family and living without "hurts her" so she is squirming. I do not see someone who has gone to tons of personal IC and changed, or gone to recovery and changed, or had a true religious experience and changed...and if she has not changed, then that means things will "be the way they've always been."
> 
> Is that what you want? If your answer is no, then continue with the mediation.


You might be correct on every point, what has gotten me to the place of being somewhat OK is focusing on the bad points she offers and all the good points I have and what I bring to the relationship and what I dont receive in return. It has just been an emotional roller coaster that I was thrown on without warning and it really affected my mental state at times, the feeling of rejection and being unwanted and having no value was a big kick in the ego. I wish the normal and rational me could read my thread and offer some advice without the emotions I have running through me and tell me what to do also.
A judge can sign off on our divorce before May providing everything is settled.


----------



## Marc878

Your actions or lack of action allows you to be played. Can you not see this?

Weakness is very unnattractive and just lowers your status. Plus it allows her to play you. Quit being a puppet on a string.

Better wake up!!!!!


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Your actions or lack of action allows you to be played. Can you not see this?
> 
> Weakness is very unnattractive and just lowers your status. Plus it allows her to play you. Quit being a puppet on a string.
> 
> Better wake up!!!!!


:iagree:

Just easier said than done, getting better though a few weeks back I was an absolute embarrassment to myself and probably look back on myself in another couple weeks and think the same about me in this moment. 

Appreciate your feedback and tough love as always :smile2:


----------



## TheTruthHurts

So... protect yourself either way.

Think about a postnup if you decide to R. That way you lock in an agreement and you know she's not playing you for more after she gets her ducks lined up better.

I suspect she'll freak if you bring that up but then you'll know how she sees you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> So... protect yourself either way.
> 
> Think about a postnup if you decide to R. That way you lock in an agreement and you know she's not playing you for more after she gets her ducks lined up better.
> 
> I suspect she'll freak if you bring that up but then you'll know how she sees you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dam that is a great idea I had never even heard of one of those, quick google search and it is all there, thanks so much.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Just easier said than done, getting better though a few weeks back I was an absolute embarrassment to myself and probably look back on myself in another couple weeks and think the same about me in this moment.
> 
> Appreciate your feedback and tough love as always :smile2:


Most things worthwhile are hard. You could get this done. All you're doing now is a self imposed limbo. It is your call and you know better.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Regarding the postop, other posters have mentioned to put in a clause saying if the wayward cheats again then they get nothing. I don't know if that's enforceable or not. I suppose you could associate it with some sort of document about in the past indiscretions and also indicate that any new revelations about past indiscretions not previously disclosed would also apply. Idk but worth a bluff anyway. I suspect that would alarm anyone who was holding back dark secrets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> Regarding the postop, other posters have mentioned to put in a clause saying if the wayward cheats again then they get nothing. I don't know if that's enforceable or not. I suppose you could associate it with some sort of document about in the past indiscretions and also indicate that any new revelations about past indiscretions not previously disclosed would also apply. Idk but worth a bluff anyway. I suspect that would alarm anyone who was holding back dark secrets.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks.


----------



## JohnA

Hi,

somerhing or some outsde party is driving this. Until it is revealed the marriage is untenable. You need to speak to an attorney, period. The mediator is only seeking to find an acceptable contractual agreement between two parties, not in reaching a fair agreement. Not consulting an attorney at this time is like walking into a major sales call totally unaware of the clients type of business, financial situation, or how you and your company can help them let alone payed. This site is good for finding rough guidelines State Specific Divorce and Custody Information - Divorce Source

This site will help you professionally, with friends, and with close relationships Discover Your Love Language - The 5 Love Languages®

This book "7 habits of highly effective people" got me out of hell. https://www.stephencovey.com/7habits/7habits.php. His exampe of a filling a 5 gallon jar was inspiring. In essence it is about choose goals, and how to use time management to achieve them.


----------



## JohnA

Need clarification: why the comments about infidelity? Why is the topic of R coming up? R has nothing to do with MovingForward. His wife has chosen, finish it. When the settlement is reached and she has gone to IC, and MC on her own then reconsider.

Finally, stay in the house! Buy her out, find a way. If not find housing in the children school district and within the children's social circle. Courts look to maintaining children's stability. It is at the core of "best interests".


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Need clarification: why the comments about infidelity? Why is the topic of R coming up? R has nothing to do with MovingForward. His wife has chosen, finish it. When the settlement is reached and she has gone to IC, and MC on her own then reconsider.
> 
> Finally, stay in the house! Buy her out, find a way. If not find housing in the children school district and within the children's social circle. Courts look to maintaining children's stability. It is at the core of "best interests".


I full intend to stay in the house and buy her out providing she is reasonable about how much that equity is.

So far still not had any confirmation of infidelity and I may be naive but I still don't think she has, not too many occasions it could happen. She still wants to do MC even today but is also still set on meeting a the mediator in case it doesn't work out which to me is defeatist.

Today has been a bad day for me, feeling very depressed.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Hi,
> 
> somerhing or some outsde party is driving this. Until it is revealed the marriage is untenable. You need to speak to an attorney, period. The mediator is only seeking to find an acceptable contractual agreement between two parties, not in reaching a fair agreement. Not consulting an attorney at this time is like walking into a major sales call totally unaware of the clients type of business, financial situation, or how you and your company can help them let alone payed. This site is good for finding rough guidelines State Specific Divorce and Custody Information - Divorce Source
> 
> This site will help you professionally, with friends, and with close relationships Discover Your Love Language - The 5 Love Languages®
> 
> This book "7 habits of highly effective people" got me out of hell. https://www.stephencovey.com/7habits/7habits.php. His exampe of a filling a 5 gallon jar was inspiring. In essence it is about choose goals, and how to use time management to achieve them.


I feel divorced friends giving wrong encouragement but who knows.


----------



## MovingForward

Today is a tough day and no particular reason why.

Had a few days of feeling hopeful but somehow getting images in my head of her with someone else keeps popping up and it is bothering me a lot, also looking way too far into the future and worrying about another guy moving in with the Children.

I really wish I would see the different scenarios in the future and what I need to do for the best one for me, confusion is making it hard to think straight on one hand I really want to stay together and throw myself into MC with her and on there other side I cannot disrespect myself like that and allow her to control this process and just go along for the ride and wait for her to decide what to do so I end up stuck in no mans land sometimes.


----------



## golfpanther

MovingForward said:


> I feel divorced friends giving wrong encouragement but who knows.


What kinds of advice are they giving you?

On the topic of R, as I wrote before I can't imagine a MC wanting to see the two of you if she's still pushing things forward with the divorce (i.e. meeting with a mediator). That sounds more like discernment counseling where the two of you would work to figure out how and why things went wrong.

Has she told you what she wants from MC? Is it reconciliation or discernment?


----------



## MovingForward

golfpanther said:


> What kinds of advice are they giving you?
> 
> On the topic of R, as I wrote before I can't imagine a MC wanting to see the two of you if she's still pushing things forward with the divorce (i.e. meeting with a mediator). That sounds more like discernment counseling where the two of you would work to figure out how and why things went wrong.
> 
> Has she told you what she wants from MC? Is it reconciliation or discernment?


I was referring to her friends maybe since Johna mentioned an outside driving force, I dont know honestly.

I agree for me MC has to be 100% all in, they conflict MC works to bring you back together and Mediation works to seperate your lives and assets. 

She told me after 12 years she is conflicted so wants to give it a chance to see if she can open back up to me for R.


----------



## golfpanther

MovingForward said:


> I was referring to her friends maybe since Johna mentioned an outside driving force, I dont know honestly.
> 
> I agree for me MC has to be 100% all in, they conflict MC works to bring you back together and Mediation works to seperate your lives and assets.
> 
> She told me after 12 years she is conflicted so wants to give it a chance to see if she can open back up to me for R.


Ah, yes, in all likelihood her divorced friends, and ones that aren't, are giving her advice to end it. That's expected though; friends are typically going to be supportive of the person's outlook on the situation. If she wants to divorce, they're going to agree. Maybe a few mutual friends will give some pushback, but not many.

Have you expressed your opinion about MC vs. mediation to your wife as succinctly as you did in your post? It's a completely reasonable and justifiable stance for both of you. Being conflicted, as she has claimed, is totally expected and you can go into MC not sure of what you want, but you can't go in with the specter of something that is completely the opposite of what MC is about.

Tell her how you feel and say you'd need all talk of mediation and divorce to be put on hold for as long as you two are trying to reconcile. If she balks, stand firm IMO.


----------



## MovingForward

golfpanther said:


> Ah, yes, in all likelihood her divorced friends, and ones that aren't, are giving her advice to end it. That's expected though; friends are typically going to be supportive of the person's outlook on the situation. If she wants to divorce, they're going to agree. Maybe a few mutual friends will give some pushback, but not many.
> 
> Have you expressed your opinion about MC vs. mediation to your wife as succinctly as you did in your post? It's a completely reasonable and justifiable stance for both of you. Being conflicted, as she has claimed, is totally expected and you can go into MC not sure of what you want, but you can't go in with the specter of something that is completely the opposite of what MC is about.
> 
> Tell her how you feel and say you'd need all talk of mediation and divorce to be put on hold for as long as you two are trying to reconcile. If she balks, stand firm IMO.


Yes I had told her but only by text really since it is tough to get her to talk about anything, did manage to have a conversation last night and we are putting it on hold and going MC. last night I was all for this and excited but woke up this morning not really interested again. I really wish my mood/emotions and thoughts would stabilize one way or the other.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Yes I had told her but only by text really since it is tough to get her to talk about anything, did manage to have a conversation last night and we are putting it on hold and going MC. last night I was all for this and excited but woke up this morning not really interested again. I really wish my mood/emotions and thoughts would stabilize one way or the other.


She has had you on a roller coaster for quite some time now. Your mood/emotions are going to be all over the place for a while, until you know for sure the future of the marriage (divorce or back together for reals), and even once you know your emotions will still be all over the place. You have to learn how to take care of yourself, and forgive yourself when you're having a bad day or being inconsistent. I'm not surprised that you're not really interested this morning. Last night, there was probably a rush of endorphins, which creates a high, and overnight you crashed from that high, which has resulted in not being interested. And your subconscious is likely also trying to protect you from getting your hopes up, after the way she's been constantly jerking you around lately.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Going thru MC is only prolonging the inevitable, and you will have to go through this all over again from the beginning.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> She has had you on a roller coaster for quite some time now. Your mood/emotions are going to be all over the place for a while, until you know for sure the future of the marriage (divorce or back together for reals), and even once you know your emotions will still be all over the place. You have to learn how to take care of yourself, and forgive yourself when you're having a bad day or being inconsistent. I'm not surprised that you're not really interested this morning. Last night, there was probably a rush of endorphins, which creates a high, and overnight you crashed from that high, which has resulted in not being interested. And your subconscious is likely also trying to protect you from getting your hopes up, after the way she's been constantly jerking you around lately.


I have managed to somewhat detach but not fully still get down on occasions out the blue, I still have some doubt and worried about regret in future if I don't at least give MC a try since she is the one who asked. Had a lot of time to reflect on it all as well over last few months and not sure if I willed myself into this state or if it is true but not sure if I was actually happy in the marriage and if I want to go back to it, still have lot of fear and uncertainty on if what I am doing is the right thing to do.

We are going next week and maybe it will be an eye opener one way or the other and help me make a clearer decision on how to proceed.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Going thru MC is only prolonging the inevitable, and you will have to go through this all over again from the beginning.


I have the same worries that I am wasting my time or same will happen again in the future I just feel like I would regret it if I didn't give it a shot, hoping it can give me some closure or cement my decision either way.

Trust has gone currently and not sure if I can even get that back but a couple weeks hopefully wont make things worse she will either show she is committed or not.


----------



## golfpanther

MovingForward said:


> I have the same worries that I am wasting my time or same will happen again in the future I just feel like I would regret it if I didn't give it a shot, hoping it can give me some closure or cement my decision either way.
> 
> Trust has gone currently and not sure if I can even get that back but a couple weeks hopefully wont make things worse she will either show she is committed or not.


The worries and lack of trust are completely normal and you should be honest about those feelings if you choose to go the MC route.

I think it might take more than a couple of weeks to know if she's fully committed or not, unless the two of you were going to an intensive and not around once a week sessions.

One thing you'll have to figure out for yourself going in is if you are 100% committed to trying to make it work. Doubts and fears are normal, but you have to really want to try for it to have any chance—same with her.

IMO, f you think you'll regret just walking away then you should do it and go all in.


----------



## MovingForward

golfpanther said:


> The worries and lack of trust are completely normal and you should be honest about those feelings if you choose to go the MC route.
> 
> I think it might take more than a couple of weeks to know if she's fully committed or not, unless the two of you were going to an intensive and not around once a week sessions.
> 
> One thing you'll have to figure out for yourself going in is if you are 100% committed to trying to make it work. Doubts and fears are normal, but you have to really want to try for it to have any chance—same with her.
> 
> IMO, f you think you'll regret just walking away then you should do it and go all in.


That is what I was thinking I am hoping the MC really get some communication going. I don't think I could take much of it though if she doesn't start showing some commitment pretty early on.


----------



## Marc878

what has waiting on her to decide your fate gotten you?

Did you ever even bother to check your phone bill?

The whoa is me attitude isn't going to get you much.

I hope you wake up.


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## JohnA

Hi, 

Have you read any of the links or reviewed any of the material I suggested? As to MC, use it as a tool to gain insight into how your actions and words might effect others. Don't defend yourself at this time. Instead listen and learn. Then review the material I suggested and make adjustments if YOU feel they are needed. 

Two most important traits to posses: listening and hearing, using silence to force additional info into the open. Does the phase "hidden objections " ring a bell?


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you read any of the links or reviewed any of the material I suggested? As to MC, use it as a tool to gain insight into how your actions and words might effect others. Don't defend yourself at this time. Instead listen and learn. Then review the material I suggested and make adjustments if YOU feel they are needed.
> 
> Two most important traits to posses: listening and hearing, using silence to force additional info into the open. Does the phase "hidden objections " ring a bell?


I have, I just want to hear her out and hear what the MC has to say, I don't see much harm at this point and if anything think it will help me understand some things maybe and either not do it in future or leave feeling like I was OK and the problem was me.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> what has waiting on her to decide your fate gotten you?
> 
> Did you ever even bother to check your phone bill?
> 
> The whoa is me attitude isn't going to get you much.
> 
> I hope you wake up.


I don't have access to phone bill, we don't have a land line and both our phones are through our companies.


----------



## bandit.45

MovingForward said:


> I have, I just want to hear her out and hear what the MC has to say, I don't see much harm at this point and if anything think it will help me understand some things maybe and either not do it in future or leave feeling like I was OK and the problem was me.


You want her to show you and a third party what a flake she is...so then your decision will be an easy one.


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## Lostinthought61

Moving....if she wants MC, than in turn you should be able to ask for full disclosure from her, if she can't give that than MC is useless.


----------



## coolgal

MovingForward said:


> Maybe I hit the bottom so hard that the only way is back up for the time being and I'm sure once it is all done and over and we are living apart and the first night I dont have the kids that will be when it all hits me again and I hit my breaking point.
> 
> When it first came out I was so down on myself felt like a failure and lost all my confidence as a person but posting on here has been a huge help as has speaking to the few people I have told for work/financial reasons and people help build you back up a little at a time.
> 
> Also I think the Joint custody has been a huge wake up call and relief for me since I am very hand on with the Children.


Don't break down just be calm n face it with patience

Sent from my Lenovo A6020a46 using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

Lostinthought61 said:


> Moving....if she wants MC, than in turn you should be able to ask for full disclosure from her, if she can't give that than MC is useless.


I am hoping that's what I will get some clarity on the entire situation and how this all came about. The confusion and back and forth is the worst part.'

If she told me she wants someone else or I caught her it would be so much easier but I have no proof, confession and very little info on her thoughts/feelings or emotional state.


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## MovingForward

bandit.45 said:


> You want her to show you and a third party what a flake she is...so then your decision will be an easy one.


I just want to find out something or hear from her and have MC translate because I am not sure she knows what she is thinking anymore and it changes day to day. Currently and it is my fault but I am in somewhat of a limbo and I am partially responsible for keeping myself here but this is my family and my Children and 12 years that I just cannot walk away from unless I know for sure what is going on and I am making the right decision.

MC might not help at all and it might not give me what I am looking for but I know I would regret not giving it ago.


----------



## coolgal

MovingForward said:


> I just want to find out something or hear from her and have MC translate because I am not sure she knows what she is thinking anymore and it changes day to day. Currently and it is my fault but I am in somewhat of a limbo and I am partially responsible for keeping myself here but this is my family and my Children and 12 years that I just cannot walk away from unless I know for sure what is going on and I am making the right decision.
> 
> MC might not help at all and it might not give me what I am looking for but I know I would regret not giving it ago.


I think u both should sit n talk in order to solve it not to get Divorce

Sent from my Lenovo A6020a46 using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

coolgal said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to find out something or hear from her and have MC translate because I am not sure she knows what she is thinking anymore and it changes day to day. Currently and it is my fault but I am in somewhat of a limbo and I am partially responsible for keeping myself here but this is my family and my Children and 12 years that I just cannot walk away from unless I know for sure what is going on and I am making the right decision.
> 
> MC might not help at all and it might not give me what I am looking for but I know I would regret not giving it ago.
> 
> 
> 
> I think u both should sit n talk in order to solve it not to get Divorce
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6020a46 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes I think we need to sit and talk since we have barely talked about this since it all happened, I just need something. Thinking/hoping she has had some time to reflect and this time she will be more open and feel better about airing it all out on what she is actually thinking/wanting so I can make a more decisive decision on what else I want to give/commit to.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about what I was unhappy about in the marriage so this isn't going to be one sided I own up to some short comings I can work on but need the same from Her in order for me to be committed to put myself out there again


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## Absurdist

What are your faults?

What are her faults?


----------



## coolgal

MovingForward said:


> Yes I think we need to sit and talk since we have barely talked about this since it all happened, I just need something. Thinking/hoping she has had some time to reflect and this time she will be more open and feel better about airing it all out on what she is actually thinking/wanting so I can make a more decisive decision on what else I want to give/commit to.
> 
> I have spent a lot of time thinking about what I was unhappy about in the marriage so this isn't going to be one sided I own up to some short comings I can work on but need the same from Her in order for me to be committed to put myself out there again


Best wishes

Sent from my Lenovo A6020a46 using Tapatalk


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## Grapes

MF - I understand the want/need for closure/understanding but be prepared for more of the same. There is a real possibility that "I dont know" is the only answer you hear in MC. It may not be because she is lying.. It could be because she really doesnt know. Just prepare yourself for getting no more information than what you have right now.


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## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> What are your faults?
> 
> What are her faults?


Still figuring these all out. :smile2: but I need to chill a little and let myself have more fun, stop being so uptight and get a social life. I feel she is not appreciative of anything good I bring and only focuses on any negative. She also needs to relax more and not be as controlling.


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> MF - I understand the want/need for closure/understanding but be prepared for more of the same. There is a real possibility that "I dont know" is the only answer you hear in MC. It may not be because she is lying.. It could be because she really doesnt know. Just prepare yourself for getting no more information than what you have right now.


I am prepared for that instance as well as I can be I guess, just feel this would be my only chance for that.


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## MovingForward

Quick update and wanted some advice.

Been getting on OK and still on board for MC BUT...................

I need to file my response to the Court today and had a question on some of the fields if anyone has any info.

On the Petition my W has requested Spousal support, me to cover legal fee's and CS based on state formula, I am rejecting the first 2 but not sure on the CS, my earnings fluctuate Month to Month and Year to Year due to bonus and commissions, in my state all they look at is the end amount so do you think it would cause further conflict if I reject that and just say its something we can work out in mediation if we end up there?

Really trying to keep Lawyers out of this since I have not seen a single divorce where the Lawyer didn't 'win' and everyone else ending up in a worse place.


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## Thor

I would start at the lowest annual income you've had in the last 3 or 5 years. That is probably a realistic number you can expect in the future. You might do better in the future, who knows? The point is you should not pay more in CS than is based on what you realistically can count on making. Using the high paying year alone, or just using last year's total may not be a good guess as to what you'll earn in the future.

If your state allows something other than their formula, go for it in mediation. But they may require the formula be used and the only question is what income to base it off of.

I would want some kind of ability to adjust the CS based on changing incomes. Perhaps a 6 month review, or an annual review.

As to spousal support, yeah I'd fight that hard. Her legal fees are hers, so I would refuse to pay those. I would do as much internet research as possible on those topics for where you live.

You may benefit from hiring a lawyer to advise you but not be the one fighting. You would pay by the hour for their advice and to review documents. At the least, if you haven't yet, I would go get a free consult with several lawyers. They usually will give a free 15-30 minute session where you can get basic questions answered and they can tell you how things generally work in your location with those specific items.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> I would start at the lowest annual income you've had in the last 3 or 5 years. That is probably a realistic number you can expect in the future. You might do better in the future, who knows? The point is you should not pay more in CS than is based on what you realistically can count on making. Using the high paying year alone, or just using last year's total may not be a good guess as to what you'll earn in the future.
> 
> If your state allows something other than their formula, go for it in mediation. But they may require the formula be used and the only question is what income to base it off of.
> 
> I would want some kind of ability to adjust the CS based on changing incomes. Perhaps a 6 month review, or an annual review.
> 
> As to spousal support, yeah I'd fight that hard. Her legal fees are hers, so I would refuse to pay those. I would do as much internet research as possible on those topics for where you live.
> 
> You may benefit from hiring a lawyer to advise you but not be the one fighting. You would pay by the hour for their advice and to review documents. At the least, if you haven't yet, I would go get a free consult with several lawyers. They usually will give a free 15-30 minute session where you can get basic questions answered and they can tell you how things generally work in your location with those specific items.


Thanks @Thor I filed my response and it didn't feel good at all.

I was in a situation where if I didn't respond then all power to W and they didn't have to include me in the hearing if she submitted a default hearing, If I had left it and she had left it the case would have eventually became inactive and thrown out but by my filing a response the case now progresses and a Judge will be assigning a court ordered mediator so It looks like things are going exactly how I didn't want them, I wanted us to do this privately if it came to it not have a judge take over since now it is determined by the state.


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## browser

Well since you already filed, it's too late to provide any useful advice but if the matter comes up again or anyone else can benefit from knowing this, I'd suggest you leave out bonus and commissions and like the other poster said, use the lowest annual income in the past few years. People leave stuff out of discovery ALL THE TIME and don't usually get penalized for it. "Oh, "THAT" 401k account? It slipped my mind. Oh, the income I make off the table from that second job? Sorry didn't think that counted. My antique car collection worth a half a million bucks?" Didn't think that was supposed to be included. ETC ETC. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt in EVERY instance and let them tell you that you cut a corner you weren't supposed to. 

In short- 

Put down the bare minimum and ask for forgiveness later rather than putting it all out there because once it's there you can't take it back and it can and will be used against you in a court of law.


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## MovingForward

browser said:


> Well since you already filed, it's too late to provide any useful advice but if the matter comes up again or anyone else can benefit from knowing this, I'd suggest you leave out bonus and commissions and like the other poster said, use the lowest annual income in the past few years. People leave stuff out of discovery ALL THE TIME and don't usually get penalized for it. "Oh, "THAT" 401k account? It slipped my mind. Oh, the income I make off the table from that second job? Sorry didn't think that counted. My antique car collection worth a half a million bucks?" Didn't think that was supposed to be included. ETC ETC. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt in EVERY instance and let them tell you that you cut a corner you weren't supposed to.
> 
> In short-
> 
> Put down the bare minimum and ask for forgiveness later rather than putting it all out there because once it's there you can't take it back and it can and will be used against you in a court of law.


My Commission is 80% of my earnings so not sure I will get away with that as W knows this also and my state just want W2, what I was wanting was to take a 5 year average.

I feel sick to my stomach about this entire situation, its just terrible all around, going to the court and then having them having a say in my future. I want out of this situation badly. :crying::crying:ray:


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## browser

MovingForward said:


> My Commission is 80% of my earnings so not sure I will get away with that as W knows this also and my state just want W2


Yeah you can't BS too much or you'll lose credibility with the court. You could run this by your attorney, and say "well what if I just forget to put this down, or this...". You can't actually ask them to do something unethical but if you coach your answers carefully you can get an idea of what you could get away with, without ruffling too many feathers. 



MovingForward said:


> what I was wanting was to take a 5 year average.


If nothing else, if it works in your favor, why not take a 10 year average? If you are even asked, you could always say "I thought that would be more realistic given the ups and downs of my profession". 



MovingForward said:


> I feel sick to my stomach about this entire situation, its just terrible all around, going to the court and then having them having a say in my future. I want out of this situation badly. :crying::crying:ray:


Don't get me started! Posts like this trigger me, having been through a highly contested divorce and seeing how unreasonable and unpredictable the courts can be. 

Too late. Yeah, you want to leave those types of decisions out of the hands of a man or woman in a robe who probably didn't spend more than 20 minutes reading the details of your case and is probably biased, lazy, uncaring and possibly even corrupt and making a decision based on which opposing attorney played golf with them most recently or contributed more to their re-election campaign.


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## MovingForward

browser said:


> Yeah you can't BS too much or you'll lose credibility with the court. You could run this by your attorney, and say "well what if I just forget to put this down, or this...". You can't actually ask them to do something unethical but if you coach your answers carefully you can get an idea of what you could get away with, without ruffling too many feathers.
> 
> 
> 
> If nothing else, if it works in your favor, why not take a 10 year average? If you are even asked, you could always say "I thought that would be more realistic given the ups and downs of my profession".
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me started! Posts like this trigger me, having been through a highly contested divorce and seeing how unreasonable and unpredictable the courts can be.
> 
> Too late. Yeah, you want to leave those types of decisions out of the hands of a man or woman in a robe who probably didn't spend more than 20 minutes reading the details of your case and is probably biased, lazy, uncaring and possibly even corrupt and making a decision based on which opposing attorney played golf with them most recently or contributed more to their re-election campaign.


I am dreading the next steps!!!! Was your divorce very confrontational @browser? and did you make any mistakes I can learn from? 

We are Currently still civil and I can only hope it stays that way if we progress further but the system itself seems to cause conflict and make you take action, when the children are involved I really don't want a strained relationship or a battle we should be able to both walk away with decent amount of assets and both be heavily involved with the children and would be so much more pleasant for all if we didn't have huge amounts of resentment and contempt for each other.

I have been feeling so good but today has really messed with my head.


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## browser

MovingForward said:


> I am dreading the next steps!!!! Was your divorce very confrontational @browser? and did you make any mistakes I can learn from?


Oh boy is that a loaded question.

The easy answer. My divorce was extremely confrontational, highly litigated with numerous court appearances over 3 years that culminated in a 3 day trial that only ended after 3 days because the judge wisely took the attorneys into chambers and said something like "You've sucked your clients dry for over $250k in combined legal fees for no good reason because they won't get anything more than they would have if they settled this thing 3 years ago, let's end the bleeding now, here's a settlement offer that I STRONGLY advise your clients accept. It reflects what I will ultimately decide anyway and you should have recommended this to your clients 3 years ago but you didn't because you are selfish greedy pigs". 

The tougher question, did I make mistakes. 

Looking back at the whole thing, I didn't handle things as efficiently as I could have, at first she came out swinging and I sat there ducking the blows and not taking the initiative, I unsuccessfully tried to negotiate a settlement with my exwife numerous times during the three years, and I allowed things to get to the point where we were in extremely high conflict which gave the attorneys even more control. 

But then again I don't think there was anything I could have done about it. Once my exwife had the initial consult with her attorneys, all control was lost and the outcome was predetermined based on the dynamics of the people involved, mainly her manipulative, highly skilled attorneys and her inability to realize we were both being taken advantage of. 

All I can suggest is try to keep things civil and think of the entire thing as a business deal and try to remove emotions from the process as much as you can, and work towards the common goal of getting this over with as inexpensively and as quickly as you can will minimum collateral damage to your children and to your finances. Don't allow yourself to get into the mindset where you're thinking "how could the person I married do these terrible things?" because they are no longer the person you married and may have had children with, they are now an exbusiness partner who has no regard for your wellbeing. One mistake I made was to get into a very negative depressed state of mind where I thought my life was basically over and I'd never recover from the devastating lost of my relationship with my children and the huge financial losses. I was mostly wrong. Things were never the same with my children, and I did lose a LOT of money but I've more than recovered the financial losses and ironically met a woman who has about the same net worth as what I paid to my exwife. My relationship with my daughters was never the same however. 

If your ex is amenable to mediation then try to go that route, but if they're completely shut down to the point that the attorneys are handling everything then hold on tight, hope for the best but expect the worst. Don't take everything your attorney tells you at face value. They are interested in making money, that's their primary goal. Know the laws in your state. Know the judge and how they tend to rule. Determine what is a realistic settlement -best and worst case scenario- so you know what is worth fighting for and when it might be time to accept what you might have previously thought is a very unfair offer.

One tactic often used by divorce attorneys is to give their clients unreasonable expectations, which becomes a sense of entitlement. "My attorney told me I can get $2000 per month in child support and 5 nights per week with my kids" so that becomes their reality even if it is not the typical award in their state. All it does is keep the two parties in the ring fighting for something they cannot realistically expect to obtain. When it's all over the attorney will simply say "the judge made an unfair ruling, here's my final bill".

If possible make your ex aware of these things so they too might rethink their expectations. The longer the litigation, the more expensive it gets and eventually even the most conflicted parties finally realize they're spending far more than they will ever hope to recoup and they throw in the towel. Obviously, the sooner the better.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> Oh boy is that a loaded question.
> 
> The easy answer. My divorce was extremely confrontational, highly litigated with numerous court appearances over 3 years that culminated in a 3 day trial that only ended after 3 days because the judge wisely took the attorneys into chambers and said something like "You've sucked your clients dry for over $250k in combined legal fees for no good reason because they won't get anything more than they would have if they settled this thing 3 years ago, let's end the bleeding now, here's a settlement offer that I STRONGLY advise your clients accept. It reflects what I will ultimately decide anyway and you should have recommended this to your clients 3 years ago but you didn't because you are selfish greedy pigs".
> 
> The tougher question, did I make mistakes.
> 
> Looking back at the whole thing, I didn't handle things as efficiently as I could have, at first she came out swinging and I sat there ducking the blows and not taking the initiative, I unsuccessfully tried to negotiate a settlement with my exwife numerous times during the three years, and I allowed things to get to the point where we were in extremely high conflict which gave the attorneys even more control.
> 
> But then again I don't think there was anything I could have done about it. Once my exwife had the initial consult with her attorneys, all control was lost and the outcome was predetermined based on the dynamics of the people involved, mainly her manipulative, highly skilled attorneys and her inability to realize we were both being taken advantage of.
> 
> All I can suggest is try to keep things civil and think of the entire thing as a business deal and try to remove emotions from the process as much as you can, and work towards the common goal of getting this over with as inexpensively and as quickly as you can will minimum collateral damage to your children and to your finances. One mistake I made was to get into a very negative depressed state of mind where I thought my life was basically over and I'd never recover from the devastating lost of my relationship with my children and the huge financial losses. I was mostly wrong. Things were never the same with my children, and I did lose a LOT of money but I've more than recovered the financial losses and ironically met a woman who has about the same net worth as what I paid to my exwife. My relationship with my daughters was never the same however.
> 
> If your ex is amenable to mediation then try to go that route, but if they're completely shut down to the point that the attorneys are handling everything then hold on tight, hope for the best but expect the worst. Don't take everything your attorney tells you at face value. They are interested in making money, that's their primary goal. Know the laws in your state. Know the judge and how they tend to rule. Determine what is a realistic settlement -best and worst case scenario- so you know what is worth fighting for and when it might be time to accept what you might have previously thought is a very unfair offer.


 @browser *One mistake I made was to get into a very negative depressed state of mind where I thought my life was basically over and I'd never recover from the devastating lost of my relationship with my children and the huge financial losses* - this is the mindset I am heading to and it is scary.

I need to figure out how Spousal support is calculated and see what a fair settlement would be, child support is easy since it is a state calculated formula and I hope I can negotiate an average income, paying legal fee's is at digression of the judge so I am at their mercy for that and the spousal support. Currently both down for mediation but I have a feeling she will not take my response well rejecting Spousal support, Honestly I would be fine paying a 'reasonable' amount but wanted to discuss off record without judge/lawyers input so had to accept or reject there was no other option.


----------



## browser

MovingForward said:


> - this is the mindset I am heading to and it is scary.


Don't be your own worst enemy. Let your wife occupy that position, it's only temporary. 



MovingForward said:


> I need to figure out how Spousal support is calculated and see what a fair settlement would be, child support is easy since it is a state calculated formula and I hope I can negotiate an average income


Spousal support is usually factored in after child support is deducted from your gross income, don't forget that. After spousal support ends, child support usually goes up again. That can either be included in the settlement, or you can go back to court in the future when she sues you for more money. The more important issue is the duration of spousal support, on a long term marriage it can really add up although most states are leaning towards shorter duration, few award lifetime support nowadays. 

Don't forget things like who is paying for college, medical expenses, that sort of thing, usually it's a pro-rata share based on income. If your state doesn't require you to pay for college, then don't put it in there even if you intend to cover those costs. You want to be paying because you want to not because a court orders you to, and those expenses could be HUGE depending on where the child may choose to go. 



MovingForward said:


> , paying legal fee's is at digression of the judge so I am at their mercy for that and the spousal support.


Truth is you're at the mercy of the court for everything. The judge doesn't always follow the guidelines, in fact they can come out with some completely unpredictable decisions to the point that you have to wonder about bias, collusion and even corruption. 



MovingForward said:


> Currently both down for mediation but I have a feeling she will not take my response well rejecting Spousal support, Honestly I would be fine paying a 'reasonable' amount but wanted to discuss off record without judge/lawyers input so had to accept or reject there was no other option.


You have to protect yourself legally when you answer her petitions so you did the right thing there, if you are in mediation you could make it known that you'd be willing to provide spousal support in exchange for, say a fast settlement but if you're going to be spending thousands on legal fees, then sorry that offer is not on the table.. that sort of thing. 

You said earlier that custody is usually 50/50, I hope for your sake this is correct but it's rather unusual. Most states consider the wife to be the primary caregiver and the husband is given visitation which is typically every other weekend and one evening per week. If you would like to pm me your state, length of marriage (12 years?), relative incomes (not amounts just if you make a lot more than she does), I can check an excellent source and tell you if I think your expectations are realistic.


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## MovingForward

@browser I PM'd you.


----------



## browser

MovingForward said:


> @browser I PM'd you.


I responded. 

Given your state and the relative incomes, unlike most guys entering a divorce, you are in very good shape. 

I'm almost envious.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> I responded.
> 
> Given your state and the relative incomes, unlike most guys entering a divorce, you are in very good shape.
> 
> I'm almost envious.


 @browser Income not relative currently she is about 25% of my income she has potential over next couple years though to get to the same level but we will have potentially settled and moved on at that point.

I guess I can count myself somewhat lucky that fingers crossed I shouldn't be completely broke but the entire situation is still awful to be involved in.


----------



## browser

MovingForward said:


> @browser Income not relative currently she is about 25% of my income she has potential over next couple years though to get to the same level but we will have potentially settled and moved on at that point.


As I responded in pm perhaps you could stall the divorce until she got that huge pay raise but it might not be realistic. At the least perhaps consider revisiting the alimony in the future, and asking the court to modify based on her increased income. Make sure there isn't something written into the final decree that says "alimony is nonmodifiable".



MovingForward said:


> I guess I can count myself somewhat lucky that fingers crossed I shouldn't be completely broke but the entire situation is still awful to be involved in.


You don't realize how fortunate you are, living in a state that almost always awards 50/50 custody and ties child support to the number of days the child spends with each parent, along with the fact that your wife works and will soon be making a lot more money.

There's almost nothing the lawyers can do to provoke their clients towards protracted litigation, there's almost nothing to fight over.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> As I responded in pm perhaps you could stall the divorce until she got that huge pay raise but it might not be realistic. At the least perhaps consider revisiting the alimony in the future, and asking the court to modify based on her increased income. Make sure there isn't something written into the final decree that says "alimony is nonmodifiable".
> 
> 
> 
> You don't realize how fortunate you are, living in a state that almost always awards 50/50 custody and ties child support to the number of days the child spends with each parent, along with the fact that your wife works and will soon be making a lot more money.
> 
> There's almost nothing the lawyers can do to provoke their clients towards protracted litigation, there's almost nothing to fight over.


I feel lucky currently, this morning I wasn't feeling so good but just the situation itself feels very suffocating. 

I have good/bad days and good and bad hours but you guys on TAM always seem to be able to take me to good with your support, encouragement, knowledge, experience and feedback. 

You will probably see me back on here over the next few days having a bad day again but I am trying to have more good honestly :wink2:


----------



## MovingForward

OK First MC tonight wish me luck.

She had a huge meltdown yesterday at the children and seems to be falling apart and not coping well at all. Couple Quotes while she was screaming, cussing and crying which seemed to come out of nowhere.

"I just want to runaway" " I don't want to be a Mom right now" " I almost want to get divorced so I can have some time to myself" after this I found her lying in the closet crying on the floor once I had put the Children to bed.

Not sure what to do, would it be bad to call MIL and have her talk to her confidential to see what's going on, I feel like she is in some sort of breakdown at times but then comes back around the next day, regardless of if we stay together or not I need her to be in a good place for herself and the children.

Could this be just stress of the Divorce or something more?


----------



## Thor

MovingForward said:


> OK First MC tonight wish me luck.
> 
> She had a huge meltdown yesterday at the children and seems to be falling apart and not coping well at all. Couple Quotes while she was screaming, cussing and crying which seemed to come out of nowhere.
> 
> "I just want to runaway" " I don't want to be a Mom right now" " I almost want to get divorced so I can have some time to myself" after this I found her lying in the closet crying on the floor once I had put the Children to bed.
> 
> Not sure what to do, would it be bad to call MIL and have her talk to her confidential to see what's going on, I feel like she is in some sort of breakdown at times but then comes back around the next day, regardless of if we stay together or not I need her to be in a good place for herself and the children.
> 
> Could this be just stress of the Divorce or something more?


She is no longer your concern in many regards. However, your children are your concern. So here's what I would do.

I would talk to her about her melt down. Ask her where that came from and why she was crying on the floor. You could suggest she see her doc about some temporary meds to help either anxiety or depression, or just to get an eval. I would approach this as you are concerned for her.

Then I would tell her that the meltdown in front of the kids is not acceptable. She is entitled to be upset during the divorce process, because we all are. But she is not to take it out on the kids. If she needs to get away for a few minutes or hours, you will be happy to step in with whatever is needed to watch the kids, make meals, etc. But she has to find a way to not have these raging episodes in front of the kids.

I would also talk to her mom and just tell her you are concerned her daughter is not coping well, but you obviously cannot be deeply involved in helping her due to the circumstances. So you're asking her mom to be aware and to be whatever help she can.

Aside from how it impacts your kids, you are in the process of becoming completely extracted from your wife's future. She can make whatever poor decisions she wants, and she can engage in bad behaviors, as long as it doesn't impact your kids. So stop feeling responsible for taking care of her.


----------



## MovingForward

Oh one thing I forgot to add.

W asked me if I filed a response and I told her yes so she asked to see a copy and I told her that since I filed a response we are now being ordered to court and will also have to do early resolution management conflict and speak with either a judge or attend court ordered mediation, she did not think that was the correct but I assured her it was which she seemed a little shocked about, she then mentioned we can just cancel and if we decide we don't want to do it then we can just withdraw our petition. I really have no idea what she is thinking or wanting and I don't think she does and I am not sure what I am either.


----------



## MovingForward

Thor said:


> She is no longer your concern in many regards. However, your children are your concern. So here's what I would do.
> 
> I would talk to her about her melt down. Ask her where that came from and why she was crying on the floor. You could suggest she see her doc about some temporary meds to help either anxiety or depression, or just to get an eval. I would approach this as you are concerned for her.
> 
> Then I would tell her that the meltdown in front of the kids is not acceptable. She is entitled to be upset during the divorce process, because we all are. But she is not to take it out on the kids. If she needs to get away for a few minutes or hours, you will be happy to step in with whatever is needed to watch the kids, make meals, etc. But she has to find a way to not have these raging episodes in front of the kids.
> 
> I would also talk to her mom and just tell her you are concerned her daughter is not coping well, but you obviously cannot be deeply involved in helping her due to the circumstances. So you're asking her mom to be aware and to be whatever help she can.
> 
> Aside from how it impacts your kids, you are in the process of becoming completely extracted from your wife's future. She can make whatever poor decisions she wants, and she can engage in bad behaviors, as long as it doesn't impact your kids. So stop feeling responsible for taking care of her.


Thanks @Thor, I really do not want to rock the boat anymore but feel like I have to do something since she is going to be 50% responsible for the children and they do need a Mom. It's really hard to talk to her about these things but I will see if I can find a good time to approach it since I do not want it to end in a loud disagreement because this stuff usually gets diverted back as an attack on me.

I will probably call MIL at the weekend and ask her to not mention we spoke but to check on her and offer a little support to see if that help. Last night seemed like the problem was not me but the children and her life in general which she wanted away from, she seems to just want to be single and have no responsibility at all. 

Maybe this happens in all Divorce cases but she ignores anything good I brought to the marriage and focuses on some really minor complaints that are usually exaggerated 10 fold and will not change because we are not together.


----------



## farsidejunky

She has no idea what she is thinking or wanting, either.

Your wife is lost. She is unhappy. She is likely depressed. She wants to run away. 

None of this has anything to do with you, but because she has frustrations over things dealing with you, you have become the "reason" in her emotional mind for all of her unhappiness. 

Here is the thing, brother. There is likely room to salvage your marriage. However, you have to want to, and you will have to take a strong leadership role in such a rekindling. It will require that you simultaneously enforce boundaries while being incredibly compassionate and empathetic. It will require that you continue through the marriage without your needs being met for a sustained period of time, say 6-18 months or more. It will not be easy, and it will get harder for a sustained period of time before it has any hope of improving.

If you have no interest in that, I would continue with the divorce. In fact, you may have to divorce her in order for her to see that you are not the source of her being unhappy. Even then she may not see it is a problem of her own making. What I am saying is that you could choose to try to save the marriage and still fail because she continues with the denial of her being the problem with her own happiness.

What do you want to do, brother?



MovingForward said:


> Oh one thing I forgot to add.
> 
> W asked me if I filed a response and I told her yes so she asked to see a copy and I told her that since I filed a response we are now being ordered to court and will also have to do early resolution management conflict and speak with either a judge or attend court ordered mediation, she did not think that was the correct but I assured her it was which she seemed a little shocked about, she then mentioned we can just cancel and if we decide we don't want to do it then we can just withdraw our petition. I really have no idea what she is thinking or wanting and I don't think she does and I am not sure what I am either.


----------



## Satya

Divorce is hard, complicated, can be long, expensive, requires lots of back and forth and patience. There are those who think it's just a piece of paper, a lawyer, and a bag of money and others know that it is a process.

I bet she does want to run away, because it's proving to be more work than she'd anticipated. Where her head is at is really not your problem. Yes, the kids need their mom, but it's HER responsibility to take care of her mental and physical health. 

Life be hard! Maybe it's the best lesson she's in the process of learning.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> She has no idea what she is thinking or wanting, either.
> 
> Your wife is lost. She is unhappy. She is likely depressed. She wants to run away.
> 
> None of this has anything to do with you, but because she has frustrations over things dealing with you, you have become the "reason" in her emotional mind for all of her unhappiness.
> 
> Here is the thing, brother. There is likely room to salvage your marriage. However, you have to want to, and you will have to take a strong leadership role in such a rekindling. It will require that you simultaneously enforce boundaries while being incredibly compassionate and empathetic. It will require that you continue through the marriage without your needs being met for a sustained period of time, say 6-18 months or more. It will not be easy, and it will get harder for a sustained period of time before it has any hope of improving.
> 
> If you have no interest in that, I would continue with the divorce. In fact, you may have to divorce her in order for her to see that you are not the source of her being unhappy. Even then she may not see it is a problem of her own making. What I am saying is that you could choose to try to save the marriage and still fail because she continues with the denial of her being the problem with her own happiness.
> 
> What do you want to do, brother?


What do I want to do????"? honestly I really don't know at this point, ideally I wish this would all go away and we have the perfect marriage and stay together as a family but that is currently not on the table . My mind changes constantly on one hand I almost want this to be finalized and done so the stress goes away and then we can maybe talk more level headed without the legal things hanging over us, but there is a part of me that see's this as a fixable issue and something we can get past and i feel like i would be giving up. I partially think she would feel happy initially when she only has 50% with kids but I can only see that being short term until other life stresses starts to hit. I don't know if I would change my mind on this but I feel it the divorce is finalized and she gets with another man even a date or 2 then I would never be able to go back.


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> Divorce is hard, complicated, can be long, expensive, requires lots of back and forth and patience. There are those who think it's just a piece of paper, a lawyer, and a bag of money and others know that it is a process.
> 
> I bet she does want to run away, because it's proving to be more work than she'd anticipated. Where her head is at is really not your problem. Yes, the kids need their mom, but it's HER responsibility to take care of her mental and physical health.
> 
> Life be hard! Maybe it's the best lesson she's in the process of learning.


Yes I have a feeling she did not really think this over much and it is progressing faster and further than she expected. She had a friend who i know did this 7 years ago and redrew the petition though so was almost used as a shock/manipulation tactic, Not sure if she thought the same at time of filing or if she see's me as the route of all issues and thinks by removing me she will instantly be happy.

You are right on it being Hard I am in the very beginning stages before things usually turn sour like I was reading in @Thor posts when things start civil and then suddenly people turn, I have a feeling that is what could happen here depending on what our views are on what is "fair" and "deserved"


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> I don't know if I would change my mind on this but I feel it the divorce is finalized and she gets with another man even a date or 2 then I would never be able to go back.


Once you divorce, you will not WANT her back. You cannot go into a divorce with the thought of getting back together sometime down the road. If you do, you will sit stagnant for the rest of your life. 

Go to MC if you think that is what you need to do. Sounds to me like your wife is done, though, and is freaking out over that fact. (I will admit, coming to that conclusion is pretty damn stressful, I have been there more than once.) Clearly she is not happy where she is in her life, and that is not your fault, nor should it be your responsibility to fix that.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Once you divorce, you will not WANT her back. You cannot go into a divorce with the thought of getting back together sometime down the road. If you do, you will sit stagnant for the rest of your life.
> 
> Go to MC if you think that is what you need to do. Sounds to me like your wife is done, though, and is freaking out over that fact. (I will admit, coming to that conclusion is pretty damn stressful, I have been there more than once.) Clearly she is not happy where she is in her life, and that is not your fault, nor should it be your responsibility to fix that.


Yes MC will make me feel better I THINK/HOPE!

Why would she be taking frustration out on the Children and not me? 

I know its not my responsibility to fix but marriage for me is about working through these things and not giving up on each other and I feel like if I don't at least try something then I have given up and I don't want to look back in 5 years and say maybe i could have done something even if she has currently given up on me. She is clearly not happy with her life but I also think she has unrealistic expectations on what will make her happy(I know not my problem again) I may never get it but I just cling on to the hope of some clarity or explanation for all this, I know I will get called out for this and probably rightly so its just hard to get out of this mindset.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Once you divorce, you will not WANT her back. You cannot go into a divorce with the thought of getting back together sometime down the road. If you do, you will sit stagnant for the rest of your life.
> 
> Go to MC if you think that is what you need to do. *Sounds to me like your wife is done, though, and is freaking out over that fact. (I will admit, coming to that conclusion is pretty damn stressful, I have been there more than once.)* Clearly she is not happy where she is in her life, and that is not your fault, nor should it be your responsibility to fix that.


 @3Xnocharm regarding the highlighted portion what were you thinking at the time and what scared you?


----------



## browser

The road to divorce isn't always linear, there's a lot of stuff that people need to process along the way.

I recall the day I went over to the house to retrieve some items, I was in the garage packing up my tools. This was about halfway through a highly contested, acrimonious divorce, but we had gotten past much of the anger and were at least civil with each other. She comes in to the garage, starts making small talk and then starts pulling her shirt down and smiling and asks me if I want some. I just looked at her, shook my head, and went back to packing up my saw blades.

Don't expect rational behavior.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> The road to divorce isn't always linear, there's a lot of stuff that people need to process along the way.
> 
> I recall the day I went over to the house to retrieve some items, I was in the garage packing up my tools. This was about halfway through a highly contested, acrimonious divorce, but we had gotten past much of the anger and were at least civil with each other. She comes in to the garage, starts making small talk and then starts pulling her shirt down and smiling and asks me if I want some. I just looked at her, shook my head, and went back to packing up my saw blades.
> 
> Don't expect rational behavior.


You are strong willed, I don't think I could do that, well at last not at this point, I shouldn't have done it but last weekend we ended up going at it(fully initiated by her) which was a lot of fun and I don't really regret it since it was good and I needed it I was ready to blow, didn't really make things awkward either since we both agreed it was just some fun. 

Who knows where this road will lead for us.


----------



## browser

MovingForward said:


> You are strong willed, I don't think I could do that, well at last not at this point, I shouldn't have done it but last weekend we ended up going at it(fully initiated by her) which was a lot of fun and I don't really regret it since it was good and I needed it I was ready to blow, didn't really make things awkward either since we both agreed it was just some fun.
> 
> Who knows where this road will lead for us.


I was NOT strong willed, early on, before things got REALLY ugly, the two of us would go to court, have some sort of hearing, battle it out, and then within a few days we'd be having sex with each other once again. 

It took time to detach. 

By the way I would never describe the sex I had with my exwife as awkward, even during the divorce. It was familiar, comforting, but it was detrimental to both of us moving on. If you're not going to divorce, that's one thing but once you know it's over, you need to move strongly in that direction, because every time you slip back it's going to be that much more difficult and take that much longer to get back on track.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> I was NOT strong willed, early on, before things got REALLY ugly, the two of us would go to court, have some sort of hearing, battle it out, and then within a few days we'd be having sex with each other once again.
> 
> It took time to detach.
> 
> By the way I would never describe the sex I had with my exwife as awkward, even during the divorce. It was familiar, comforting, but it was detrimental to both of us moving on. If you're not going to divorce, that's one thing but once you know it's over, you need to move strongly in that direction, because every time you slip back it's going to be that much more difficult and take that much longer to get back on track.


I understand currently its still up in the air exactly what will happen but i do agree I would not let it happen once I decide or get told its done.

Sex was always something that was great when we had it but frequency was not enough for me. 

Not sure how other people deal with this aspect but for me I need physical touch, I need to hug, kiss, hold hands, cuddle and have sex etc so the lack of that in my life currently makes it tough and frustrating and its not like I can really go and get those things elsewhere in the current position I am in. :smile2:


----------



## farsidejunky

How long has it been since your marriage was good?

How long has it been since she consistently met your needs?

Is the marriage, on its own merit and given no other considerations such as children or finances, actually worth saving?

I know I asked you if you wanted to try to rekindle your marriage. In fairness, if I were in your position, I would let the marriage die.


----------



## Satya

browser said:


> The road to divorce isn't always linear, there's a lot of stuff that people need to process along the way.
> 
> I recall the day I went over to the house to retrieve some items, I was in the garage packing up my tools. This was about halfway through a highly contested, acrimonious divorce, but we had gotten past much of the anger and were at least civil with each other. She comes in to the garage, starts making small talk and then starts pulling her shirt down and smiling and asks me if I want some. I just looked at her, shook my head, and went back to packing up my saw blades.
> 
> Don't expect rational behavior.


Good point. 
My ex H started telling me I should sleep with some of our mutual, single male friends. Basically, wanted to throw me to the wolves because we were done anyway. I absolutely did not and just the thought of how he worded it made me want to vomit.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> How long has it been since your marriage was good?
> 
> How long has it been since she consistently met your needs?
> 
> Is the marriage, on its own merit and given no other considerations such as children or finances, actually worth saving?
> 
> I know I asked you if you wanted to try to rekindle your marriage. In fairness, if I were in your position, I would let the marriage die.


 @farsidejunky I really don't know how to answer, I feel like I need a bunch of counseling to find out what I am thinking/wanting/needing and who I am myself, I don't even really know sometimes.

Regarding being good we have good times all the time from my point of view but we did have a blow up from time to time.

I wish i could confidently answer this and feel bad I cant


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> Good point.
> My ex H started telling me I should sleep with some of our mutual, single male friends. Basically, wanted to throw me to the wolves because we were done anyway. I absolutely did not and just the thought of how he worded it made me want to vomit.


I could not imagine ever saying something like that, I am still at a point where the thought of her with someone else kills me a little, that is the one thing I can't quite detach from just yet.


----------



## MovingForward

I can tell my mind is all over the place just reading back through my own posts, the inconsistency is something I have to laugh at, Its good I guess to document it all so I can see how I progress/regress over this time situation.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> @3Xnocharm regarding the highlighted portion what were you thinking at the time and what scared you?


Its a scary thing when you realize that you dont want to be with your spouse any more... the commitment you made, the life you planned, the feeling of failure... I remember saying to myself that this is what I want, but I wish I didnt want it. Also coming out and telling my then H that I was leaving was THE scariest thing I had ever done in my life. He had a terrible temper, and while I really didnt feel he would physically harm me, he was frightening when he got angry and I just didnt want to deal with it. (he did push me down once when he was drunk/angry)


----------



## Absurdist

MovingForward said:


> I can tell my mind is all over the place....


And that may continue for awhile. But also.... your wife's mind is everywhere too. Both of you, your left brain is in a civil war with your right brain. From the men I have spoken to and try to counsel as a friend, that is very, very, very ... exhausting. It's one of the reasons your wife had the meltdown with the kids.

MovingForward - as I told you several days ago, your wife's head is one big bag of cats. She has no idea who she is, what she wants or what she wants to do. I think she has deep insecurities and self esteem issues all mixed in with a unhealthy dose of depression.

I have no idea what your end result might be. But as Farside says, you will have to lead this thing. Unfair as h3ll. I understand that, but you still need to lead it.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Its a scary thing when you realize that you dont want to be with your spouse any more... the commitment you made, the life you planned, the feeling of failure... I remember saying to myself that this is what I want, but I wish I didnt want it. Also coming out and telling my then H that I was leaving was THE scariest thing I had ever done in my life. He had a terrible temper, and while I really didnt feel he would physically harm me, he was frightening when he got angry and I just didnt want to deal with it. (he did push me down once when he was drunk/angry)


Thanks I was just curious so maybe I would understand a little more about her mindset and why she does certain things, I guess it is not easier for the leaver than the left behind both feel the same emotions of failure, lost future plans, and not being a partnership anymore.


----------



## browser

MovingForward said:


> I can tell my mind is all over the place just reading back through my own posts, the inconsistency is something I have to laugh at, Its good I guess to document it all so I can see how I progress/regress over this time situation.


Now you can understand why some states have mandatory "cooling off" periods before a divorce can be filed.


----------



## MovingForward

browser said:


> Now you can understand why some states have mandatory "cooling off" periods before a divorce can be filed.


Yes it is a smart move :smile2:


----------



## FeministInPink

Satya said:


> Good point.
> My ex H started telling me I should sleep with some of our mutual, single male friends. Basically, wanted to throw me to the wolves because we were done anyway. I absolutely did not and just the thought of how he worded it made me want to vomit.


Eeeewwww. Gross. I would have the same reaction as you.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long has it been since your marriage was good?
> 
> How long has it been since she consistently met your needs?
> 
> Is the marriage, on its own merit and given no other considerations such as children or finances, actually worth saving?
> 
> I know I asked you if you wanted to try to rekindle your marriage. In fairness, if I were in your position, I would let the marriage die.
> 
> 
> 
> @farsidejunky I really don't know how to answer, I feel like I need a bunch of counseling to find out what I am thinking/wanting/needing and who I am myself, I don't even really know sometimes.
> 
> Regarding being good we have good times all the time from my point of view but we did have a blow up from time to time.
> 
> *I wish i could confidently answer this and feel bad I cant*
Click to expand...

This may be your answer, right here. If you have to think too hard about the answer... the answer is probably no. If you had a good reason for wanting to save the marriage (aside from the kids or finances), you wouldn't be looking so hard for it, because it would be right in front of you. You would know.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> This may be your answer, right here. If you have to think too hard about the answer... the answer is probably no. If you had a good reason for wanting to save the marriage (aside from the kids or finances), you wouldn't be looking so hard for it, because it would be right in front of you. You would know.


It just confusing it really is, I really feel like I am just lost and not sure what I am thinking about anything. I do love her just not sure if we can work together anymore or if I am trying to hold on to something that is not there anymore or if this is just a bad time and things will get better again.

We are going MC tonight so maybe something could come out of this good or bad which helps me one way or another.


----------



## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> And that may continue for awhile. But also.... your wife's mind is everywhere too. Both of you, your left brain is in a civil war with your right brain. From the men I have spoken to and try to counsel as a friend, that is very, very, very ... exhausting. It's one of the reasons your wife had the meltdown with the kids.
> 
> MovingForward - as I told you several days ago, your wife's head is one big bag of cats. She has no idea who she is, what she wants or what she wants to do. I think she has deep insecurities and self esteem issues all mixed in with a unhealthy dose of depression.
> 
> I have no idea what your end result might be. But as Farside says, you will have to lead this thing. Unfair as h3ll. I understand that, but you still need to lead it.


Yep, i guess none of us knowing who we are or what we want anymore makes it a weird situation since emotions are all over the place.

I wish i would confidently make a solid decision but I am just not there quite yet.


----------



## Grapes

MF = how did the MC session go?


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> MF = how did the MC session go?


Not totally sure, he talked to us both and then described to each of us why the other was feeling and acting a certain way and most of it made sense and how we were communicating in different frequencies and we are basically acting out action for action as it it described in some text book, he actually called us a text book case, he mentioned it will take work and be hard but if we are both committed then he thinks we can work things out but also mentioned there is no guarantee.

It was a little frustrating that my W seemed more interested in making sure I was seen as the bad guy and she was the good guy so not sure how to take that exactly.

I am waiting to be scheduled for another session not sure if solo or together since after we left my W went to get the children and I had a friend I was meeting so not really spoken about it.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Not totally sure, he talked to us both and then described to each of us why the other was feeling and acting a certain way and most of it made sense and how we were communicating in different frequencies and we are basically acting out action for action as it it described in some text book, he actually called us a text book case, he mentioned it will take work and be hard but if we are both committed then he thinks we can work things out but also mentioned there is no guarantee.
> 
> It was a little frustrating that my W seemed more interested in making sure I was seen as the bad guy and she was the good guy so not sure how to take that exactly.
> 
> I am waiting to be scheduled for another session not sure if solo or together since after we left my W went to get the children and I had a friend I was meeting so not really spoken about it.


Best of luck, MF. It's good to know that your marriage/problems are fixable, but you both need to be committed to that, and I have doubts if your wife is willing to commit to it right now.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Best of luck, MF. It's good to know that your marriage/problems are fixable, but you both need to be committed to that, and I have doubts if your wife is willing to commit to it right now.


Thanks, I also have some doubts but the next few days/weeks or even months should show one way or another.

Not sure how soon we are going to get called into court either so that could change things one way or another.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Thanks, I also have some doubts but the next few days/weeks or even months should show one way or another.
> 
> Not sure how soon we are going to get called into court either so that could change things one way or another.


If you guys are actually going to give MC a go, the first thing has to be that your wife pulls the divorce filing. It's unfair to have that hanging over you. And come to some agreement in MC that filing for divorce is off the table, for at least a certain amount of time. Or something like that. The MC might have a recommendation on that.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> If you guys are actually going to give MC a go, the first thing has to be that your wife pulls the divorce filing. It's unfair to have that hanging over you. And come to some agreement in MC that filing for divorce is off the table, for at least a certain amount of time. Or something like that. The MC might have a recommendation on that.


Thanks he knew there was a filing but did not mention anything else, I will check if there is a way we can postpone things, I know I can apply for conciliation which suspends all proceedings for 60 days but need to look more into it all.


----------



## Grapes

This whole thing is just so confusing, i cant imagine how all over the place your thoughts are man. Keep your chin up.

So she spent her time blaming you for all her unhappyness. Now I may be jaded so take what i say with a grain of salt but at some point she has to look in the mirror. If she isnt capable or willing to do that not much will change in my opinion. and you wont rebuild trust which i think is your concern?


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> This whole thing is just so confusing, i cant imagine how all over the place your thoughts are man. Keep your chin up.
> 
> So she spent her time blaming you for all her unhappyness. Now I may be jaded so take what i say with a grain of salt but at some point she has to look in the mirror. If she isnt capable or willing to do that not much will change in my opinion. and you wont rebuild trust which i think is your concern?


No at this time it seems like I am the only problem and 100% responsible for everything, if that pattern continued I will obviously just terminate MC but expected it partially for a session or 2 until we dig a little deeper. 

Not sure what you get out of 'Winning' in MC seems weird to care about that in my opinion.


----------



## farsidejunky

I would not request that the divorce proceedings be delayed in any way shape or form.

What I would do is explain to her that she was the one that filed, and as far as I'm concerned, the divorce will suit me just fine unless she can make a compelling enough case for it not to be.

MF, you can see already this is going to be harder on her than it is on you. Never...Ever...Ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink.

I honestly don't think she is ready, but she's willing to take you over the cliff anyway, in order to punish you. The best thing you can do in this situation is convince her that you will go over the cliff if that's what she wants, but would prefer not to. 

However, if she insists, you are willing to go off the cliff with her, but you won't hold on to her when your parachute opens.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Thanks he knew there was a filing but did not mention anything else, I will check if there is a way we can postpone things, I know I can apply for conciliation which suspends all proceedings for 60 days but need to look more into it all.


Since she filed initially, I think she has to be the one to stop it.

If she really wants to pursue MC, she needs to prove it by stopping the divorce. If she refuses to stop the legal process, then there's no point in MC, and you should continue to prepare yourself for post-divorce life.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> I would not request that the divorce proceedings be filed in any way shape or form.
> 
> What I would do is explain to her that she was the one that filed, and as far as I'm concerned, the divorce will suit me just fine unless she can make a compelling enough case for it not to be.
> 
> MF, you can see already this is going to be harder on her than it is on you. Never...Ever...Ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink.
> 
> I honestly don't think she is ready, but she's willing to take you over the cliff anyway, in order to punish you. The best thing you can do in this situation is convince her that you will go over the cliff if that's what she wants, but would prefer not to.
> 
> However, if she insists, you are willing to go off the cliff with her, but you won't hold on to her when your parachute opens.


You think that is the better way to go? I am just not sure if having the Divorce hanging over us during MC will be productive but I will give it some thought.

On a different note she just called me to complain that my work trip coming up at end of month which is mandatory conflicts with a concert she booked months ago and she had planned on going out in the day before etc. etc. and now she can't and its my fault. 

Tried explaining that she wouldn't have ever being going out in the day since I would have been working regardless unless she had a babysitter and we have almost 2 weeks to call one of 6 babysitters to watch the children for 3-4 hours before I arrive home, then she had to go as she was too busy and did not have time to talk to me, this is a theme that comes up a lot in out marriage or soon to be former marriage.


----------



## farsidejunky

"You filed for divorce. Any sort of negotiation about something like this is for people who are working on their marriage, not in the process of breaking it up. Will there be anything else?"

Do not let her have it both ways, MF.


----------



## farsidejunky

As for the divorce proceedings, don't you see you are allowing her to eat cake? She gets to punish you through divorce, and she gets to punish you as if you are still remaining married.

Stop allowing that. Make it one or the other. If you are going to work on the marriage, the divorce gets taken off the table. If the divorce is not taken off the table, there will be no working on the marriage.


----------



## browser

FeministInPink said:


> If she refuses to stop the legal process, then there's no point in MC


Marriage counseling is done all the time for divorcing couples.

Therapy for Divorce, Divorce Counseling, Therapist for Divorce


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> "You filed for divorce. Any sort of negotiation about something like this is for people who are working on their marriage, not in the process of breaking it up. Will there be anything else?"
> 
> Do not let her have it both ways, MF.


Yeah I'm currently letting myself take the 'licks' from all over. :scratchhead: Glad I have a night out with some friends for St Patricks day tonight:grin2::grin2::smthumbup::yay:


----------



## FeministInPink

browser said:


> Marriage counseling is done all the time for divorcing couples.
> 
> Therapy for Divorce, Divorce Counseling, Therapist for Divorce


You're talking about therapy to get through the trauma of divorce and the ending of a marriage (or at least the link is).

The OP is talking about MC to try to save the marriage.

Pretty sure those are different things.

The OP's wife has been all over the map recently. Halting the divorce process is something she should do on her end (and something I think the OP needs) to show that she is actually "all in" when it comes to the MC.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> You're talking about therapy to get through the trauma of divorce and the ending of a marriage (or at least the link is).
> 
> The OP is talking about MC to try to save the marriage.
> 
> Pretty sure those are different things.
> 
> The OP's wife has been all over the map recently. Halting the divorce process is something she should do on her end (and something I think the OP needs) to show that she is actually "all in" when it comes to the MC.


Yes she has to decide to halt but we both have to agree she cannot stop it on her own now since it has progressed too far.

I am curious on how she will take it when the court send a summons for us to go in and it gets real.

The Power plays still come in, if I am strong she loses it and can't cope and if I show weakness she becomes strong, it is so weird.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> Yes she has to decide to halt but we both have to agree she cannot stop it on her own now since it has progressed too far.
> 
> I am curious on how she will take it when the court send a summons for us to go in and it gets real.
> 
> The Power plays still come in, if I am strong she loses it and can't cope and if I show weakness she becomes strong, it is so weird.


Don't mistake taking control for strength. It is often done out of fear. I think that likely applies to both of you.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Don't mistake taking control for strength. It is often done out of fear. I think that likely applies to both of you.


From my side its more of a I suppress everything down and focus on other things and can function and be happy I'm not interested in a Power/Control war with her, if she see's me not broken down and just getting on with things and having fun then she starts to break down but if like last night in MC i show some emotion about the situation then it feeds her and she feels confident and in control again for a couple days.


----------



## farsidejunky

Not confident; comfortable.

When she sees you moving on, she starts to break down.

Brinkmanship without being willing to go over the brink.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are way over analyzing things. It is filed and she got cold feet. Stop playing lifeguard and be an adult. You guys are already over the cliff, now you are deciding on which parachute to use. How often, until now, have you rushed to her rescue? I'm curious because you were warned about manipulation. Heck, you said she was making you the "bad guy." Now, you want to call it off and balked at FSJ's comment. None of us, you included, know what is a good idea in your case. I do know you aren't helping yourself by continually hoping on and off this ride.


----------



## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are way over analyzing things. It is filed and she got cold feet. Stop playing lifeguard and be an adult. You guys are already over the cliff, now you are deciding on which parachute to use. How often, until now, have you rushed to her rescue? I'm curious because you were warned about manipulation. Heck, you said she was making you the "bad guy." Now, you want to call it off and balked at FSJ's comment. None of us, you included, know what is a good idea in your case. I do know you aren't helping yourself by continually hoping on and off this ride.


 @phillybeffandswiss I didn't balk at FSJ's comment I appreciate and take into consideration all input I receive here, this forum is really the only outlet I have to put down thoughts/ideas and get advice. For me this is not a simple decision to make, my mind is all over the place and I feel the need to constantly reevaluate because things are just all over the place. 

I do know I have got a lot of work still to do but have made plenty of progress also over the last few months since all this hit out of nowhere(at least on my side)


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MovingForward said:


> @phillybeffandswiss I didn't balk at FSJ's comment I appreciate and take into consideration all input I receive here, this forum is really the only outlet I have to put down thoughts/ideas and get advice. For me this is not a simple decision to make, my mind is all over the place and I feel the need to constantly reevaluate because things are just all over the place.
> 
> I do know I have got a lot of work still to do but have made plenty of progress also over the last few months since all this hit out of nowhere(at least on my side)


You do need to see both sides, but you keep creating scenarios to remain in the passenger seat in this divorce. You do realize your wife is currently in another car and you are driving your own car from the passengers seat? You are still describing it as an us scenario. Right now it is you vs her. You can try to work on things, but it is still you vs her. It is right there in your paperwork. I didn't tell you stop MC, not to reconcile or hurry up. I said stop over analyzing everything. 

As to "balk"


> You think that is the better way to go? I am just not sure if having the* Divorce hanging over us during MC will be productive *but I will give it some thought.


She filed and wanted the divorce, you obviously did not. You are hesitating to do what FSJ suggested, saying it will not be productive, I used the word balk instead. You can still appreciate comments and balk at implementing the idea. Oh and I never implied anything was easy or simple.


----------



## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You do need to see both sides, but you keep creating scenarios to remain in the passenger seat in this divorce. You do realize your wife is currently in another car and you are driving your own car from the passengers seat? You are still describing it as an us scenario. Right now it is you vs her. You can try to work on things, but it is still you vs her. It is right there in your paperwork. I didn't tell you stop MC, not to reconcile or hurry up. I said stop over analyzing everything.
> 
> As to "balk"
> She filed and wanted the divorce, you obviously did not. You are hesitating to do what FSJ suggested, saying it will not be productive, I used the word balk instead. You can still appreciate comments and balk at implementing the idea. Oh and I never implied anything was easy or simple.


I thought you were referring to another comment, yes you are right the over analyzing needs to stop I am working on it, I think I feel like I am doing OK but my writing shows otherwise. I'm just a confused, slightly scared and a little emotionally broken down, this is a situation i never saw myself in and since i have spent the last few years neglecting a social life and have no other family in this country my W was my go to person so it is very lonely and hard at times and this makes it hard to make the hard and firm decisions for me.


----------



## JohnA

Your MC described you as a text book example. What text books? Seriously what text books was he citing? What are his professional qualifications? What writings would he cite as being relevant? If you can not answer these questions bail. 

Your wife is either a begining stage WAW or a WW (either EA or PA) at this point.

What are the hidden objections?


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Your MC described you as a text book example. What text books? Seriously what text books was he citing? What are his professional qualifications? What writings would he cite as being relevant? If you can not answer these questions bail.
> 
> Your wife is either a begining stage WAW or a WW (either EA or PA) at this point.
> 
> What are the hidden objections?


Not sure what text book her was referring to I didn't ask honestly, he is highly regarded in our State(not sure if that means anything)

I am not sure what you mean on the hidden objections?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MovingForward said:


> I thought you were referring to another comment, yes you are right the over analyzing needs to stop I am working on it, I think I feel like I am doing OK but my writing shows otherwise. I'm just a confused, slightly scared and a little emotionally broken down, this is a situation i never saw myself in and since i have spent the last few years neglecting a social life and have no other family in this country my W was my go to person so it is very lonely and hard at times and this makes it hard to make the hard and firm decisions for me.


I have to find a thread for you. I think you may have read it, but it sounds like where you could head. The guy kept reading into everything his wife did, went down the same path as you and I actually left the thread because he wanted reconciliation so bad he was accepting all the blame for everything. He felt I was being antagonistic. 

Your situation is different, but you remind me of him. No, it didn't end well. Although, now I realize MC is what you may need to see the truth. This is where he received his wake up call.


----------



## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I have to find a thread for you. I think you may have read it, but it sounds like where you could head. The guy kept reading into everything his wife did, went down the same path as you and I actually left the thread because he wanted reconciliation so bad he was accepting all the blame for everything. He felt I was being antagonistic.
> 
> Your situation is different, but you remind me of him. No, it didn't end well. Although, now I realize MC is what you may need to see the truth. This is where he received his wake up call.


I have read a lot of threads on here but if you figure out which one it is I will check it out and try and read it and take away something.

That is my thing and I own it I try not to but at the back of my mind I am not quite ready to let go and want the R still.

I like feedback on here regardless just interacting with people on here makes things easier and sometimes a little clearer, It may take everyone on TAM to tell me I am being an idiot and making huge mistakes and I may eventually get it who knows but I guess the story will still be here for someone else to learn from or maybe not make the same mistakes.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Trust me, I do not think you aren't listening or you are being hardheaded. You are confused and everything is up in the air. It just feels like you are starting to develop tunnel vision type thinking. You know, to the point you may end up right back where you started.


----------



## Absurdist

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Trust me, I do not think you aren't listening or you are being hardheaded. You are confused and everything is up in the air. It just feels like you are starting to develop tunnel vision type thinking. You know, to the point you may end up right back where you started.



MovingForward - what Philly and Farside are trying to say is best summed up in one of the most familiar passages of scripture.

_2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. *She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.*

_


Do you see what I put in bold there? Adam sat there with his thumb up his butt listening to this entire exchange. What was he doing? He was saying and doing nothing. He let his wife do all the talking and make all the decisions. He stood there passively and let all this crap happen.

That has become an inherited curse for all of us men... the curse of being passive and not making decisions. I think it is embedded in all of us guys. We had much rather go out for a beer on St. Patrick's Day and maybe all this stuff will take care of itself.

What I, Philly and Farside are saying is that you must take charge here. You must come to a decision whatever it might be. If you fail to do so you will be swept along in the tide just like Adam. It didn't end very well for Adam.

Good luck my friend. You have some tough decisions here but you must make them.


----------



## JohnA

It's a sales term. Sometimes your offer mets every need and is best priced best offer yet the client stalls. Why? 

Their are many on line directories that either list the therapist with their qualifications or offer comments about them. Also search using his name to see if he is published. Finally call him and ask for the titles of several books he finds very insightful.

PS: my iPad is having a lot of problems with this site. I tried to reapond yes to your request but it did not go though.


----------



## thenub

If you do go the R route, get a postnup in place. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

thenub said:


> If you do go the R route, get a postnup in place.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How would you go about that? I only found out about that from another TAM member recently.

Have you had any experience with this? from what I gather it is just an agreement on how everything is handles if we go through with the D.


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## Marc878

A post nup proposal at this time would probably squash any chances at R


----------



## Grapes

MF - How ya doing?


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> MF - How ya doing?


OK, I got my court date yesterday, asked her what she thought about it all and she wasn't sure, she told me she has done a lot of soul searching recently and I asked if she wanted to share that and she did not seem too comfortable so I mentioned Sunday was deadline were both 100% in or were 100% out. mostly been getting on really well but things clearly not still right.

How have you been?


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## MovingForward

So my court date if we agree to everything we can finalize there and then and be done, I will either be R or potentially fully divorced in 5 weeks. Things moves fast.


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## Absurdist

MovingForward said:


> so I mentioned Sunday was deadline were both 100% in or were 100% out. mostly been getting on really well but things clearly not still right.
> 
> How have you been?


Im proud of you MovingForward. You are being much more decisive. Now stick with that deadline and lead this thing. Wallowing around in limbo will destroy your soul.

I know this is hard and my heart goes out to you.


----------



## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> Im proud of you MovingForward. You are being much more decisive. Now stick with that deadline and lead this thing. Wallowing around in limbo will destroy your soul.
> 
> I know this is hard and my heart goes out to you.


Thanks, it is hard but whichever route I take is going to be hard at this point. I honestly would still love to R but I can't allow myself to get close to her anymore unless she shows some major commitment and willingness to make it work also.

The speed at which the D can progress here is crazy, if Sunday she decided she is not committed we have 5 weeks to get an agreement in place for the court appointment and we can submit there and then to file the final paperwork before being granted the D.

All very scary stuff and I am just pushing it down inside and not allowing myself to feel but I still feel that I am due a breakdown at some point.


----------



## Grapes

MovingForward said:


> OK, I got my court date yesterday, asked her what she thought about it all and she wasn't sure, she told me she has done a lot of soul searching recently and I asked if she wanted to share that and she did not seem too comfortable so I mentioned Sunday was deadline were both 100% in or were 100% out. mostly been getting on really well but things clearly not still right.
> 
> How have you been?



Doing well, thanks.

Keep at it. Your doing all you can do and if you make ultimatums make sure you keep them!


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## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Doing well, thanks.
> 
> Keep at it. Your doing all you can do and if you make ultimatums make sure you keep them!


Yeah just hope the end result is a good one. The countdown is on so its becoming very real.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> Thanks, it is hard but whichever route I take is going to be hard at this point. I honestly would still love to R but I can't allow myself to get close to her anymore unless she shows some major commitment and willingness to make it work also.
> 
> The speed at which the D can progress here is crazy, if Sunday she decided she is not committed we have 5 weeks to get an agreement in place for the court appointment and we can submit there and then to file the final paperwork before being granted the D.
> 
> All very scary stuff and I am just pushing it down inside and not allowing myself to feel but I still feel that I am due a breakdown at some point.


All divorce should be that quick. 

I wouldn't believe her if she said she was "all in" for R on sunday. She been buying time. Concentrate your efforts on D, if she wants to try R bad enough you will know. Her kinda sorta maybe tells you she's not.


----------



## Grapes

honcho said:


> All divorce should be that quick.
> 
> I wouldn't believe her if she said she was "all in" for R on sunday. She been buying time. Concentrate your efforts on D, if she wants to try R bad enough you will know. Her kinda sorta maybe tells you she's not.


I agree, there really shouldn't be waffling at this point. I dont know = no at this point.


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## FeministInPink

Echoing what @Grapes and @honcho said--if she can't fully commit to reconciliation, even if she can't fully commit to the divorce either, I think you need to move forward with the divorce. You'll never be able to get anywhere with someone not fully in the relationship, who has one foot put the door. May be best to cut your losses... 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Absurdist

How is it going MovingForward?


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## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> How is it going MovingForward?


It is Ok thanks for asking, didn't get a chance to talk yesterday AKA my 'Deadline" day and I am out off town until Wednesday for work and wanted to have the talk face to face so already failed on my own deadline :frown2:

I know I need 100% commitment for R so anything other and I am moving with the D only but still not sure I am ready to hear her answer.


----------



## Thor

The truth shall set you free. You may not get the answer you prefer, but the answer will remove a large weight from your shoulders.


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## MovingForward

Thor said:


> The truth shall set you free. You may not get the answer you prefer, but the answer will remove a large weight from your shoulders.


Yeah I guess so, very stressful times ahead still though.


----------



## Absurdist

MovingForward said:


> It is Ok thanks for asking, didn't get a chance to talk yesterday AKA my 'Deadline" day and I am out off town until Wednesday for work and wanted to have the talk face to face so already failed on my own deadline :frown2:
> 
> I know I need 100% commitment for R so anything other and I am moving with the D only but still not sure I am ready to hear her answer.


I guess I don't understand. Friday you said this:

_OK, I got my court date yesterday, asked her what she thought about it all and she wasn't sure, she told me she has done a lot of soul searching recently and I asked if she wanted to share that and she did not seem too comfortable *so I mentioned Sunday was deadline were both 100% in or were 100% out.* mostly been getting on really well but things clearly not still right._

I thought you had already told her.

????


----------



## MovingForward

Well I just got her answer...............

She doesn't see how we can have anything other than 'friendship' again since there has been too much hurt and she doesn't think she can ever get past that so wants to move forward with the Divorce.

This hurts a lot worse than I expected I think I was holding onto too much hope.


----------



## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> I guess I don't understand. Friday you said this:
> 
> _OK, I got my court date yesterday, asked her what she thought about it all and she wasn't sure, she told me she has done a lot of soul searching recently and I asked if she wanted to share that and she did not seem too comfortable *so I mentioned Sunday was deadline were both 100% in or were 100% out.* mostly been getting on really well but things clearly not still right._
> 
> I thought you had already told her.
> 
> ????


:frown2:

I did I had told her Sunday to tell me her answer, we were supposed to sit down and talk and didn't get a chance.

She just gave me answer though, its over and she want the D so that's where I am heading again.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Echoing what @Grapes and @honcho said--if she can't fully commit to reconciliation, even if she can't fully commit to the divorce either, I think you need to move forward with the divorce. You'll never be able to get anywhere with someone not fully in the relationship, who has one foot put the door. May be best to cut your losses...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


She decided she didn't want to do anything other than get a Divorce so I have my answer but it hasn't really done much but made me feel much worse at this time, hopefully gets a little easier but can't see much changing for a while :crying:


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Well I just got her answer...............
> 
> She doesn't see how we can have anything other than 'friendship' again since there has been too much hurt and she doesn't think she can ever get past that so wants to move forward with the Divorce.
> 
> This hurts a lot worse than I expected I think I was holding onto too much hope.


Hope is a dangerous thing it can hold you in limbo.

I wouldn't go the friend thing. For you to have a future you need to completely detach and move on from this.

It's whats best for you

Hard 180 immediately


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Hope is a dangerous thing it can hold you in limbo.
> 
> I wouldn't go the friend thing. For you to have a future you need to completely detach and move on from this.
> 
> It's whats best for you
> 
> Hard 180 immediately


I know just wish it had not come to this, I feel I was never even was given any chance to do anything.


----------



## Marc878

​


MovingForward said:


> I know just wish it had not come to this, I feel I was never even was given any chance to do anything.


You can't do anything about that she's taken it out of your hands but for your own good you need to take yourself away from her.

A good purge is in order. If you can do it and you can you'll understand later.


Hard 180!!!!!!


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> She decided she didn't want to do anything other than get a Divorce so I have my answer but it hasn't really done much but made me feel much worse at this time, hopefully gets a little easier but can't see much changing for a while :crying:


MF, I'm sorry. The best thing you can do now is 180.

Don't talk to her about anything other than the kids, or anything absolutely necessary. No sleeping in the same room, and don't fall into bed with her again and give yourself false hope.

No, she didn't give you a chance, and that's her failing, not yours. Right now, you need to focus on what's best for you and your kids, and that means preparing yourself for the next steps. Do the 180. It will help, and things will eventually get better.

You deserve someone who will be all in with you, and that's not her. And I hate to say it, but I'm glad you didn't waste a whole bunch of time attempting reconciliation, because that never would have worked if her heart wasn't in it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Grapes

Sorry to hear this MF! time to pick yourself up and dust of the sh1t sandwich man. It does suck! its the worst suck for sure. But you have to think about the positives no matter how hard and no matter how hurting you are. Think about all the waffling you had to deal with. All the back and forth push/pull you endured for a long time. Well - you no longer have to deal with that confusing mind fvck. Eventually you get to find someone who actually wants to be with you. Actually loves you more than playing games with your mind.

Chin up and take control - its the only way out somewhat whole.

I forgot - do you have kids? If you do its time to start thinking about custody and a strategy to get you the time you deserve! Shift your focus onto being productive and moving forward with D.


----------



## Satya

You may be open to friendship now, because it's all still raw. 

Believe me, you'll have an epiphany some day soon, and you'll wonder why you'd even considered being in the same zip code.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> ​
> 
> You can't do anything about that she's taken it out of your hands but for your own good you need to take yourself away from her.
> 
> A good purge is in order. If you can do it and you can you'll understand later.
> 
> 
> Hard 180!!!!!!


 @Mark878 what do you mean by purge?


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> You may be open to friendship now, because it's all still raw.
> 
> Believe me, you'll have an epiphany some day soon, and you'll wonder why you'd even considered being in the same zip code.


 @Satya i dont see anyway I can be friends i am not open to it at all, currently just the thought of seeing her crushes me i wish i had the option of killing all contact for good its too painful but i dont unfortunately because of children. not really sure what to do since we we are stuck living together and i will have to financially support her when we are not.


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Sorry to hear this MF! time to pick yourself up and dust of the sh1t sandwich man. It does suck! its the worst suck for sure. But you have to think about the positives no matter how hard and no matter how hurting you are. Think about all the waffling you had to deal with. All the back and forth push/pull you endured for a long time. Well - you no longer have to deal with that confusing mind fvck. Eventually you get to find someone who actually wants to be with you. Actually loves you more than playing games with your mind.
> 
> Chin up and take control - its the only way out somewhat whole.
> 
> I forgot - do you have kids? If you do its time to start thinking about custody and a strategy to get you the time you deserve! Shift your focus onto being productive and moving forward with D.


 @Grapes Yes we have 2 kids. 

Situation is just crushing me i am lost Currently cant even see any positives just feel destroyed. Wish I could fast forward to something in future.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> MF, I'm sorry. The best thing you can do now is 180.
> 
> Don't talk to her about anything other than the kids, or anything absolutely necessary. No sleeping in the same room, and don't fall into bed with her again and give yourself false hope.
> 
> No, she didn't give you a chance, and that's her failing, not yours. Right now, you need to focus on what's best for you and your kids, and that means preparing yourself for the next steps. Do the 180. It will help, and things will eventually get better.
> 
> You deserve someone who will be all in with you, and that's not her. And I hate to say it, but I'm glad you didn't waste a whole bunch of time attempting reconciliation, because that never would have worked if her heart wasn't in it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 @FeministInPink I'm just crushed mentally and feel like I have no where to go, I so badly wanted this to work out and really not sure how to get past this. I still have 5 weeks at the least and have to go through the mediation and living in the same house and eventually dealing with her dating or revealing the other man if there is one I don't think i can take all this currently.


----------



## arbitrator

*I have sparingly read through excerpts of your thread and friend, I totally feel your pain and desperation! Been there ~ done that!

I know that it hurts beyond anything that you've ever encountered. Mine still hurts, even unto this day whenever I allow it to, which is seemingly less and less over the due course of time!

My heartfelt prayers go up for you that the Lord will diminish the hurt and sheer heartache that you have! I pray that our Lord will walk alongside and ease your burden, knowing full well that He will never put anything on your narrow shoulders that you cannot carry!

You are among friends who have trodden in your footsteps and know all too well what it is that you're going through!

Gain the strength to execute and sustain the 180 for your very own peace of mind! What has happened to you is not your fault, but it has been presented to you as your problem!

Continue to let others see the presence of God in you, and at the very same time, look to see the presence of Him in others!

You will remain foremostly in my prayers!*


----------



## Satya

@MovingForward, you're going to need to step back, breathe, and focus on your own forum handle. You're going to be entering into a state of moving forward. It won't be easy, but it is necessary. 

You're going to learn to detach. You're going to learn that relationships are not always permanent, they are often transitory. You're going to learn to hold onto the good memories and learn from the bad. 

Right now you feel crushed. It's OK to process through these feelings. But then it'll be time to focus on your healing.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> @FeministInPink I'm just crushed mentally and feel like I have no where to go, I so badly wanted this to work out and really not sure how to get past this. I still have 5 weeks at the least and have to go through the mediation and living in the same house and eventually dealing with her dating or revealing the other man if there is one I don't think i can take all this currently.


I know. This is the darkest part. Don't worry about the future yet, just take it one day at a time.

I promise, it will get better. It doesn't seem like it now, but it will.

This is why we tell you to do the 180. It's designed to help you get through this. You're going to be like the walking dead for a little while. This is your brain trying to work through the emotional trauma. Just focus on one day at a time.

And have you consulted a lawyer? I know you're going through mediation... I don't want to see you give her a penny more than you're legally obligated. Know your rights.


----------



## MovingForward

arbitrator said:


> *I have sparingly read through excerpts of your thread and friend, I totally feel your pain and desperation! Been there ~ done that!
> 
> I know that it hurts beyond anything that you've ever encountered. Mine still hurts, even unto this day whenever I allow it to, which is seemingly less and less over the due course of time!
> 
> My heartfelt prayers go up for you that the Lord will diminish the hurt and sheer heartache that you have! I pray that our Lord will walk alongside and ease your burden, knowing full well that He will never put anything on your narrow shoulders that you cannot carry!
> 
> You are among friends who have trodden in your footsteps and know all too well what it is that you're going through!
> 
> Gain the strength to execute and sustain the 180 for your very own peace of mind! What has happened to you is not your fault, but it has been presented to you as your problem!
> 
> Continue to let others see the presence of God in you, and at the very same time, look to see the presence of Him in others!
> 
> You will remain foremostly in my prayers!*


Thank you


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> @MovingForward, you're going to need to step back, breathe, and focus on your own forum handle. You're going to be entering into a state of moving forward. It won't be easy, but it is necessary.
> 
> You're going to learn to detach. You're going to learn that relationships are not always permanent, they are often transitory. You're going to learn to hold onto the good memories and learn from the bad.
> 
> Right now you feel crushed. It's OK to process through these feelings. But then it'll be time to focus on your healing.


I an trying but woke up this morning feeling as terrible as I did last night.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> @FeministInPink I'm just crushed mentally and feel like I have no where to go, I so badly wanted this to work out and really not sure how to get past this. I still have 5 weeks at the least and have to go through the mediation and living in the same house and eventually dealing with her dating or revealing the other man if there is one I don't think i can take all this currently.
> 
> 
> 
> I know. This is the darkest part. Don't worry about the future yet, just take it one day at a time.
> 
> I promise, it will get better. It doesn't seem like it now, but it will.
> 
> This is why we tell you to do the 180. It's designed to help you get through this. You're going to be like the walking dead for a little while. This is your brain trying to work through the emotional trauma. Just focus on one day at a time.
> 
> And have you consulted a lawyer? I know you're going through mediation... I don't want to see you give her a penny more than you're legally obligated. Know your rights.
Click to expand...

I have not consulted a lawyer yet, I do know 50/50 custody is easy to arrange in my state, child support is a state mandated calculator and all property is community so 50/50 split. Only thing outstanding is alimony which I will need to speak with someone on. Last night was the worst I have ever felt and feel almost same this morning except I can stop my self from breaking down because I have to work.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Marc878 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> You can't do anything about that she's taken it out of your hands but for your own good you need to take yourself away from her.
> 
> A good purge is in order. If you can do it and you can you'll understand later.
> 
> 
> Hard 180!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> @Mark878 what do you mean by purge?
Click to expand...

You have to detach in order to move on with your life so get rid of pics, mementos, etc.

If you can't 180 or distance yourself you'll just linger in limbo and do yourself no good.

As far as shared custody do email or text only. Never answer a phone call directly. 

You didn't want this but make no mistake you have to deal with it or wallow in turmoil.


----------



## Marc878

Hope is a dangerous thing. Instead of preparing yourself you hung onto that sliver of hope. 

The ones who get through this best get strong and gorge ahead.

She's told and shown you there is nothing there. You need to start believing her.

You can do this like many others have. Do not keep hanging on like a whipped puppy. That will just put you on worse shape.

Get out of your denial of where you are


----------



## MovingForward

Another day down and none of the pain has gone away, can't take my mind of it at all and feel like I am ready to break at any point, not even seen or spoke to her in a couple days apart from one message telling me she wants to move with the D, we will be crossing paths tonight and not sure how I am going to be able to hold it together since I am barely managing it with her not around.

Feel like my entire world is in Chaos and crumbling, we have been together for pretty much my entire adult life, she is only person I have ever lived with and I really can't imagine not having her in my life, she was my go to person and now I am feeling so lonely and isolated, I hope there is some good in the future not sure how much of this I can take.


----------



## Diana7

MovingForward said:


> Another day down and none of the pain has gone away, can't take my mind of it at all and feel like I am ready to break at any point, not even seen or spoke to her in a couple days apart from one message telling me she wants to move with the D, we will be crossing paths tonight and not sure how I am going to be able to hold it together since I am barely managing it with her not around.
> 
> Feel like my entire world is in Chaos and crumbling, we have been together for pretty much my entire adult life, she is only person I have ever lived with and I really can't imagine not having her in my life, she was my go to person and now I am feeling so lonely and isolated, I hope there is some good in the future not sure how much of this I can take.


I feel for you, many of us here have been through this and its horrible. Its as if she has died, a bereavement, and it will take a long time to recover from. Be kind to yourself.


----------



## MovingForward

Diana7 said:


> I feel for you, many of us here have been through this and its horrible. Its as if she has died, a bereavement, and it will take a long time to recover from. Be kind to yourself.


Yes that's exactly how it feels except they leave you feeling worthless at the same time.

I know I come across whiny on here but this is such a bad time and sad as it sounds this forum is my main outlet to deal with it all, my closet family is a 11 hour flight away and have no real close friends where I currently live.


----------



## Diana7

MovingForward said:


> Yes that's exactly how it feels except they leave you feeling worthless at the same time.
> 
> I know I come across whiny on here but this is such a bad time and sad as it sounds this forum is my main outlet to deal with it all, my closet family is a 11 hour flight away and have no real close friends where I currently live.


Yes in some ways its worse that a bereavement because then you usually have good memories, but in a divorce you have mainly negative painful ones.


----------



## MovingForward

Diana7 said:


> Yes in some ways its worse that a bereavement because then you usually have good memories, but in a divorce you have mainly negative painful ones.


I still have some good memories just this way I have to relive the pain whenever I see her or have to talk with her about anything to do with Divorce or the children.


----------



## Diana7

MovingForward said:


> I still have some good memories just this way I have to relive the pain whenever I see her or have to talk with her about anything to do with Divorce or the children.


Try and keep face to face meetings to a minimum. Do as much as you can through solicitors and by email etc.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Another day down and none of the pain has gone away, can't take my mind of it at all and feel like I am ready to break at any point, not even seen or spoke to her in a couple days apart from one message telling me she wants to move with the D, we will be crossing paths tonight and not sure how I am going to be able to hold it together since I am barely managing it with her not around.
> 
> Feel like my entire world is in Chaos and crumbling, we have been together for pretty much my entire adult life, she is only person I have ever lived with and I really can't imagine not having her in my life, she was my go to person and now I am feeling so lonely and isolated, I hope there is some good in the future not sure how much of this I can take.


Do you HAVE to see her tonight? I assume you'll both be at the house? Just stay as far away from her as possible, and always stay in a different room. Can you go out/elsewhere if she'll be at home with the kids?

Honey, it's going to suck for a while. Don't even think about the future. One day at a time. It will eventually get better, but you have to grieve your marriage first, and that takes time.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Do you HAVE to see her tonight? I assume you'll both be at the house? Just stay as far away from her as possible, and always stay in a different room. Can you go out/elsewhere if she'll be at home with the kids?
> 
> Honey, it's going to suck for a while. Don't even think about the future. One day at a time. It will eventually get better, but you have to grieve your marriage first, and that takes time.


Yes FIP we will both be at the House, I have been away for work for a couple days so want to go spend some time with my children. 

I have been emailing my IC today and he is going to do a Saturday session since I cannot get my work schedule to coincide with availability until end of April, I really need someone to talk to because I am not handling this as well as I thought I would be able, I never cry and been randomly breaking down all day, luckily it is allergy season here. 

How do you even start to grieve a marriage I just don't even know where to start?


----------



## JohnA

You start who you. Acceptance that your life has changed direction. That you and only you need to direct that path. You begin to make plans based on who you are and your goals. You have 50 percent custody. 

Where will you live? How can you adjust your work schedule to accommodate the time you have custody. What life skills will you teach your children? How will you teach them? Think back on your childhood and your friends childhood, what and how did you. And the learn? What didn't you they did not learn? 

Put your whole focus on that, not the why did it turn out this way. The why's are for when you don't have custody. Perhaps some other posters can suggest age appropriate literature. Or perhaps start a new thread on the subject, continue on this one for the why's on non-custodial days.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> You start who you. Acceptance that your life has changed direction. That you and only you need to direct that path. You begin to make plans based on who you are and your goals. You have 50 percent custody.
> 
> Where will you live? How can you adjust your work schedule to accommodate the time you have custody. What life skills will you teach your children? How will you teach them? Think back on your childhood and your friends childhood, what and how did you. And the learn? What didn't you they did not learn?
> 
> Put your whole focus on that, not the why did it turn out this way. The why's are for when you don't have custody. Perhaps some other posters can suggest age appropriate literature. Or perhaps start a new thread on the subject, continue on this one for the why's on non-custodial days.


@johnA all makes sense and this is what I will try and do just focus on what's the 'new' future holds. I am just not sure about the new future and accepting I am going there. Maybe a few more days of a soldier misery will make it easier.


----------



## MovingForward

Eventually got past my breakdown yesterday but sure I am due a few more before this is all over.

Feeling like I am OK today so hope this mood continues, this is not what I want but it is what I am forced to do so just got to try and focus on a new future.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Moving Forward, 

I am still confused...why does she go back and forth on this...what is going on with her?


----------



## MovingForward

Lostinthought61 said:


> Moving Forward,
> 
> I am still confused...why does she go back and forth on this...what is going on with her?


I wish I knew, we have a court date schedules and mediation booked so looks like the back and forth has ended although it hurt a lot when the last bit of hope was stripped away from me. 

Not sure if it had made a difference or not but almost feel if I had been more assertive at the beginning and filed myself and pushed forward she would have panicked and been open to seeing if we could work it out, instead i made all the mistakes you are not supposed to and gave her all the power and kept myself fully available, in the few instances I pulled away she always came back around short term.


----------



## Lostinthought61

MovingForward said:


> I wish I knew, we have a court date schedules and mediation booked so looks like the back and forth has ended although it hurt a lot when the last bit of hope was stripped away from me.
> 
> Not sure if it had made a difference or not but almost feel if I had been more assertive at the beginning and filed myself and pushed forward she would have panicked and been open to seeing if we could work it out, instead i made all the mistakes you are not supposed to and gave her all the power and kept myself fully available, in the few instances I pulled away she always came back around short term.


There is no use trying to get upset with yourself on that, you were being honorable in the face of confusion or deceit...your wiser now, and this way you can point out to the court that you tried several times to work it out only to be shown the door...now you are ready. Do not give her any more power again.


----------



## MovingForward

Lostinthought61 said:


> There is no use trying to get upset with yourself on that, you were being honorable in the face of confusion or deceit...your wiser now, and this way you can point out to the court that you tried several times to work it out only to be shown the door...now you are ready. Do not give her any more power again.


I hope I am wiser and ready I really do not feel like it just yet, got to try and keep my mind right :frown2::slap:


----------



## SadSamIAm

MovingForward said:


> Eventually got past my breakdown yesterday but sure I am due a few more before this is all over.
> 
> Feeling like I am OK today so hope this mood continues, this is not what I want but it is what I am forced to do so just got to try and focus on a new future.


Many years ago, I screwed up like you are doing. I was broken up with and it broke me. I was a pitiful mess. Went from begging and crying to being angry. Nothing in between. The only thing I did correctly was to workout a bunch to relieve the stress.

Years later, I was told that everyone thought we would have ended up together, but I screwed up by being so pathetic. 

Now after reading TAM (and some books) I realize that the correct way to handle this is to be strong. Even if you have to fake it. Being strong is attractive. Crying and being weak is unattractive. People want what they can't have. Your best bet is to be pleasant and confident. Make sure she knows you want her and love her. Also make sure that she knows that you will be fine on your own. 

This is your best (and probably only) chance of getting her back. It is easier said than done, but you need to do this. It may not result in you getting her back, but it will result in you keeping your dignity and will help in moving on.

I wish you the best.


----------



## MovingForward

SadSamIAm said:


> Many years ago, I screwed up like you are doing. I was broken up with and it broke me. I was a pitiful mess. Went from begging and crying to being angry. Nothing in between. The only thing I did correctly was to workout a bunch to relieve the stress.
> 
> Years later, I was told that everyone thought we would have ended up together, but I screwed up by being so pathetic.
> 
> Now after reading TAM (and some books) I realize that the correct way to handle this is to be strong. Even if you have to fake it. Being strong is attractive. Crying and being weak is unattractive. People want what they can't have. Your best bet is to be pleasant and confident. Make sure she knows you want her and love her. Also make sure that she knows that you will be fine on your own.
> 
> This is your best (and probably only) chance of getting her back. It is easier said than done, but you need to do this. It may not result in you getting her back, but it will result in you keeping your dignity and will help in moving on.
> 
> I wish you the best.


Thanks @SadSamIAm I was definitely pathetic and also far too eager when she would dip in and out which resulted in the cold shoulder again a few days later. The part of getting her back is gone we are 5 weeks from signing a decree.

I feel what I really want to do is go on some dates to build some confidence again but don't want the hassle until we are finalized, have two children so need to be respectful for their sake.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I have to find a thread for you. I think you may have read it, but it sounds like where you could head. The guy kept reading into everything his wife did, went down the same path as you and I actually left the thread because he wanted reconciliation so bad he was accepting all the blame for everything. He felt I was being antagonistic.
> 
> Your situation is different, but you remind me of him. No, it didn't end well. Although, now I realize MC is what you may need to see the truth. This is where he received his wake up call.


Sorry, here's the thread it is different, but my basic message is don't use MC or IC to get your spouse to do anything. Go for you and your well being. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html


Still, it reminded me of this thread and this is basically more in line with you.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...326665-separated-wife-only-wants-friends.html

You do not want to be this guy. Seriously, if you haven't read this one, this is you. Read it to the end and pay attention to everything he does, including not detaching and trying to win her back. Oh and make sure you pay attention to the start date.


----------



## SadSamIAm

MovingForward said:


> Thanks @SadSamIAm I was definitely pathetic and also far too eager when she would dip in and out which resulted in the cold shoulder again a few days later. The part of getting her back is gone we are 5 weeks from signing a decree.
> 
> I feel what I really want to do is go on some dates to build some confidence again but don't want the hassle until we are finalized, have two children so need to be respectful for their sake.


People get back together all the time. Even after divorce. You will be dealing with her for a long time because of the children. Whenever you see her, be as confident as you can. May not result in you getting her back. You may realize you don't want her back. But it will show her what she threw away. 

When I went through my breakup, I was only 19 years old (no kids). I had a number of 'flings' and dated a bit. Most of the reason I did it was to prove to myself that I was desirable. It did help my confidence, but it didn't do much for helping get over her. It really just took time for that. For me, it was a couple of years.


----------



## MovingForward

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, here's the thread it is different, but my basic message is don't use MC or IC to get your spouse to do anything. Go for you and your well being.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html
> 
> 
> Still, it reminded me of this thread and this is basically more in line with you.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...326665-separated-wife-only-wants-friends.html
> 
> You do not want to be this guy. Seriously, if you haven't read this one, this is you. Read it to the end and pay attention to everything he does, including not detaching and trying to win her back. Oh and make sure you pay attention to the start date.


I will read through this later, I have seen some posts before and yes if i take a step back it does sound like me from what i have seen, especially the physical attraction part.


----------



## MovingForward

SadSamIAm said:


> People get back together all the time. Even after divorce. You will be dealing with her for a long time because of the children. Whenever you see her, be as confident as you can. May not result in you getting her back. You may realize you don't want her back. But it will show her what she threw away.
> 
> When I went through my breakup, I was only 19 years old (no kids). I had a number of 'flings' and dated a bit. Most of the reason I did it was to prove to myself that I was desirable. It did help my confidence, but it didn't do much for helping get over her. It really just took time for that. For me, it was a couple of years.


That is what I need a confidence boost to not feel so down on myself, terrible feeling being cast aside and unwanted.

I have a few things in the works which hopefully results in me having more outside distractions to take my mind off.


----------



## Marc878

You can't make some one want you. You work on yourself. The main thing is attitude.

No woman is attraction to a broken, weak guy. 

The more you contact, pursue or make yourself available it just puts you deeper in the hole but most just continue doing the same thing and they get the same results.

I'd bet most know or have a concept of what they need to do but won't.

I heard one guy say "that's just who I am"! Ok, then you take what comes with that.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Thanks @SadSamIAm I was definitely pathetic and also far too eager when she would dip in and out which resulted in the cold shoulder again a few days later. The part of getting her back is gone we are 5 weeks from signing a decree.
> 
> I feel what I really want to do is go on some dates to build some confidence again but don't want the hassle until we are finalized, have two children so need to be respectful for their sake.


So you continue to put off working for you to pacify others? Maybe you should change tactics since what you've been doing hasn't worked so well.

You don't have to get into a relationship but you could start going out with friends, family.

Most dumpers get satisfaction knowing your still pinning after them. Or even worse don't know you exist. Start going out and have some fun.


----------



## Marc878

You can't/don't change your behavior expect more of what you've experienced in your future.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> So you continue to put off working for you to pacify others? Maybe you should change tactics since what you've been doing hasn't worked so well.
> 
> You don't have to get into a relationship but you could start going out with friends, family.
> 
> Most dumpers get satisfaction knowing your still pinning after them. Or even worse don't know you exist. Start going out and have some fun.


I just want to keep conflict minimum until we have settled. 

I don't have any family in the country but working on the friend part, went out for a few drinks last night with a friend and having dinner and drinks tonight with another guy I know.

Also Joined a new workout group which starts next week so be good for meeting people and taking my mind off things.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I just want to keep conflict minimum until we have settled.
> 
> I don't have any family in the country but working on the friend part, went out for a few drinks last night with a friend and having dinner and drinks tonight with another guy I know.
> 
> Also Joined a new workout group which starts next week so be good for meeting people and taking my mind off things.


Perfect. You may find that what you had may not have been that great. Many will live in a crappy life because of the fear of the unknown.

Look at it this way. You get to start over and do only what you want. Learn to live on your own for awhile. It will improve you if you follow it right. I don't mean not to date. But take your time. You'll surprise yourself I bet


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Perfect. You may find that what you had may not have been that great. Many will live in a crappy life because of the fear of the unknown.
> 
> Look at it this way. You get to start over and do only what you want. Learn to live on your own for awhile. It will improve you if you follow it right. I don't mean not to date. But take your time. You'll surprise yourself I bet


Thanks @Marc878 as always. Fear of the unknown is 100% playing a factor in my mindset, only person I have been with in my adult life and the lack of family and friends really flipped my world and routine on its head.

Starting over is a 50/50 on whether I am scared or excited, there are some Pro's and cons but I guess I just have to think of it as I have no choice but to accept the cons and I have to embrace the Pro's. There have been a bunch of things I have not done such as travel as much as i want, certain motorized toys i wanted to buy but spend on 'home improvement' and constant new furniture i didn't care about so there is that to look forward to.

Just got 5 weeks and I will be legally over and back into the world as a single man.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Thanks @Marc878 as always. Fear of the unknown is 100% playing a factor in my mindset, only person I have been with in my adult life and the lack of family and friends really flipped my world and routine on its head.
> 
> Starting over is a 50/50 on whether I am scared or excited, there are some Pro's and cons but I guess I just have to think of it as I have no choice but to accept the cons and I have to embrace the Pro's. There have been a bunch of things I have not done such as travel as much as i want, certain motorized toys i wanted to buy but spend on 'home improvement' and constant new furniture i didn't care about so there is that to look forward to.
> 
> Just got 5 weeks and I will be legally over and back into the world as a single man.


Id recommend a Jaguar convertible >

Seriously, join a gym start working out, change your wardrobe up, etc.

In order for you to move on study the 180. Hard no contact. If you don't detach you'll continue to wallow in limbo. It's the best thing you can do for yourself. DON'T DO THE "FRIENDS" thing. It'll just hold you.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Id recommend a Jaguar convertible >
> 
> Seriously, join a gym start working out, change your wardrobe up, etc.
> 
> In order for you to move on study the 180. Hard no contact. If you don't detach you'll continue to wallow in limbo. It's the best thing you can do for yourself. DON'T DO THE "FRIENDS" thing. It'll just hold you.


 Probably not a Jaguar Convertible but maybe a couple motorbikes and a RZR :grin2:


----------



## MovingForward

Had a good night out with a new friend I met via children's sports and he introduced me to a few of his other friends(all divorced or pending) we just all had dinner, some drinks and just hung out, it was a nice change from my usual routine and took my mind of everything. 

Went bed a little later than usual and woke up depressed and down, pretty much cried the entire way to work but think I got it all out, hoping these moments become less and less.

Got an IC appointment tomorrow so that should(Hopefully) allow me to get a bunch of stuff out and help with the moving forward.

Have a great day all.


----------



## MovingForward

Well it's been a crappy day at work and got the entire weekend to try and kill time and avoid contact/discussion as much as possible, should be looking forward to a weekend but more stressful than work these days.

Only good thing is get to see IC and spend some time with the Children.


----------



## Marc878

Retread "No More Mr Nice Guy"

Hard 180 and you'll get there.

How's your weekend going?


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Retread "No More Mr Nice Guy"
> 
> Hard 180 and you'll get there.
> 
> How's your weekend going?


I read no more Mr nice guy and do see some of me in there but maybe need to read deeper to figure out how to change.

Weekend has been ok had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else. Been keeping busy and working away next couple days again before mediation starts. Mentioned needing to start working it all out to finalize D on court date and was told we don't have to finalize it then to which I replied there is no reason we shouldn't and we will which she was mad about, also told her to start looking for a new place to move. Went to IC and was told me straight up that the behavior signals are that she has someone else already or lined up which is something I have still not accepted but makes total sense, also this is the guy we went to MC and he told me that from our session he tried to see if she accepted any blame for demise of marriage and could see she didn't not want to and was not open to working on anything, also said the biggest red flag was she had no interest in working anything out for an issue which could easily be resolved which was because she already is giving her emotions to someone else. 

Still have my down movements and feeling depressed but working on keeping as busy as possible and getting past this.


----------



## stixx

MovingForward said:


> had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else.


You sir, are your own worst enemy.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I read no more Mr nice guy and do see some of me in there but maybe need to read deeper to figure out how to change.
> 
> Weekend has been ok had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else. Been keeping busy and working away next couple days again before mediation starts. Mentioned needing to start working it all out to finalize D on court date and was told we don't have to finalize it then to which I replied there is no reason we shouldn't and we will which she was mad about, also told her to start looking for a new place to move. *Went to IC and was told me straight up that the behavior signals are that she has someone else already or lined up which is something I have still not accepted but makes total sense*, also this is the guy we went to MC and he told me that from our session he tried to see if she accepted any blame for demise of marriage and could see she didn't not want to and was not open to working on anything, also said the biggest red flag was she had no interest in working anything out for an issue which could easily be resolved which was because she already is giving her emotions to someone else.
> 
> Still have my down movements and feeling depressed but working on keeping as busy as possible and getting past this.


Everyone saw this here upfront but like most you won't believe it because that kind of truth is to hard to take. You'd rather believe her so you wouldn't have to deal with it. He'll show up shortly and the lie will be they just met, etc, etc, etc. you just stay NC you can only control yourself. 

She's not putting any effort into the marriage because it's all going to her boyfriend. She does appear to want to cake eat probably in case he doesn't workout and she has a plan B to land on which is you.

Quit projecting your love onto her (thinking she feels about you like you do her). If she did you wouldn't be where you are now would you?

Don't worry about your slip up you're human but you need to stop. Hard 180 or you'll just keep yourself in limbo.


----------



## MovingForward

stixx said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> You sir, are your own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

I know I was drunk horny and she jumped me oh well not changed anything and felt good at the time.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read no more Mr nice guy and do see some of me in there but maybe need to read deeper to figure out how to change.
> 
> Weekend has been ok had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else. Been keeping busy and working away next couple days again before mediation starts. Mentioned needing to start working it all out to finalize D on court date and was told we don't have to finalize it then to which I replied there is no reason we shouldn't and we will which she was mad about, also told her to start looking for a new place to move. *Went to IC and was told me straight up that the behavior signals are that she has someone else already or lined up which is something I have still not accepted but makes total sense*, also this is the guy we went to MC and he told me that from our session he tried to see if she accepted any blame for demise of marriage and could see she didn't not want to and was not open to working on anything, also said the biggest red flag was she had no interest in working anything out for an issue which could easily be resolved which was because she already is giving her emotions to someone else.
> 
> Still have my down movements and feeling depressed but working on keeping as busy as possible and getting past this.
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone saw this here upfront but like most you won't believe it because that kind of truth is to hard to take. You'd rather believe her so you wouldn't have to deal with it. He'll show up shortly and the lie will be they just met, etc, etc, etc. you just stay NC you can only control yourself.
> 
> She's not putting any effort into the marriage because it's all going to her boyfriend. She does appear to want to cake eat probably in case he doesn't workout and she has a plan B to land on which is you.
> 
> Quit projecting your love onto her (thinking she feels about you like you do her). If she did you wouldn't be where you are now would you?
> 
> Don't worry about your slip up you're human but you need to stop. Hard 180 or you'll just keep yourself in limbo.
Click to expand...

I know it was called our way back I just couldn't accept it and still can't for some reason.


----------



## MovingForward

We just got into it. She mentioned about continuing to be friends and i mentioned about let's see what's happen since i have a lot of doubts about you, mentioned her behavior which she denied and tried to put back on me. Everything gets flipped


----------



## stixx

MovingForward said:


> I know I was drunk horny and she jumped me oh well not changed anything and felt good at the time.


I suggest you stop making excuses for your mistakes.

I also suggest you stop making mistakes. 

It's sort of like this... you're in a hole and you've got a shovel in your hand and every time you do something like have sex with your wife who is on the fence and calling all the shots when it comes to divorcing you, it's like you're removing a bit more dirt from the bottom of the hole which causes you to sink even deeper. 

You see, making excuses doesn't put the dirt back in the whole. If anything, it removes even more.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I know it was called our way back I just couldn't accept it and still can't for some reason.


I suspect it will manifest itself shortly. So be prepared. Do not acknowledge or accept her lies when it does.

You see liars have the edge in these situations. They prey on you wanting to believe and many want to so badly they do because they may think it's a reflection on them.

Cheating is never about the betrayed that's on the cheater. You didn't make her.

It would be best for you to get out of your denial and take her down off the pedestal you have her on.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> We just got into it. She mentioned about continuing to be friends and i mentioned about let's see what's happen since i have a lot of doubts about you, mentioned her behavior which she denied and tried to put back on me. Everything gets flipped


Yep, that's why you need to stop engaging her. You can't win these. Hard 180!!!! Apparently you haven't learned this lesson yet.

You can't detach you'll probably ruin future relationships you could have. Other women won't accept event the hint of an X in the mix.

Definition of friend = loyal, trustworthy and honest.

"Let's be friends" is just for her. Not you. So she can relive any guilt or keep you around for things.

Better wake up


----------



## stixx

Continuing to have these pointless circular conversations about who is more wrong is like more shovelsful of dirt out of the hole.


----------



## bandit.45

You are a slow moving trainwreck. We all want to turn away but we can't help but stand there and watch. Like a herd of buffalo walking around and sniffing one of their own that just got gut-shot by a hunter. We should run but we don't. 

Seriously man....


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> I know I was drunk horny and she jumped me oh well not changed anything and felt good at the time.


MF, you really need to reject her.

I have odds on her flying into a rage in the moment, then spending the better part of the next day upping her pressure on you.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> We just got into it. She mentioned about continuing to be friends and i mentioned about let's see what's happen since i have a lot of doubts about you, mentioned her behavior which she denied and tried to put back on me. Everything gets flipped


And here you are, still engaging.

Your response to her wanting to be friends?

"No, thank you."

It should be said without a hint of malice, sarcasm, or aggression.


----------



## JohnA

The reason she wants soft dates is she is not sure of OP (other person). I think the time she came home crying she was actually suppose to be with the other person. 

You are plan B and she is grey rocking you.

So now the hidden objections are established what is the plan? I suggest moving forward aggressively building an independent life with your children. Move hard, don't waste time on a prospect that has little chance of succeeding,


----------



## Diana7

MovingForward said:


> I read no more Mr nice guy and do see some of me in there but maybe need to read deeper to figure out how to change.
> 
> Weekend has been ok had one slip up but not too worried about it honestly, ended up having sex again but just think of it as a release and nothing else. Been keeping busy and working away next couple days again before mediation starts. Mentioned needing to start working it all out to finalize D on court date and was told we don't have to finalize it then to which I replied there is no reason we shouldn't and we will which she was mad about, also told her to start looking for a new place to move. Went to IC and was told me straight up that the behavior signals are that she has someone else already or lined up which is something I have still not accepted but makes total sense, also this is the guy we went to MC and he told me that from our session he tried to see if she accepted any blame for demise of marriage and could see she didn't not want to and was not open to working on anything, also said the biggest red flag was she had no interest in working anything out for an issue which could easily be resolved which was because she already is giving her emotions to someone else.
> 
> Still have my down movements and feeling depressed but working on keeping as busy as possible and getting past this.


Having sex with her is the worst thing you can do, it will stop you from being able to move on. Make sure that you dont see her ever unless the children are with you.


----------



## jayperdue

It depends on your situation, who filed, how long were you married , how many kids and how old. If it was going to get worse, you would know by now, usually wives with a "plan" file for a temporary restraining order at the same time they file for divorce. If you did not get one, it s good, but beware. it could come later. In 1/3 of divorce proceedings wives file false domestic violence allegations


----------



## dubsey

MovingForward said:


> We just got into it. She mentioned about continuing to be friends and i mentioned about let's see what's happen since i have a lot of doubts about you, mentioned her behavior which she denied and tried to put back on me. Everything gets flipped


She's setting you up to be the side piece.


----------



## MovingForward

repeated


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Everyone saw this here upfront but like most you won't believe it because that kind of truth is to hard to take. You'd rather believe her so you wouldn't have to deal with it. He'll show up shortly and the lie will be they just met, etc, etc, etc. you just stay NC you can only control yourself.
> 
> She's not putting any effort into the marriage because it's all going to her boyfriend. She does appear to want to cake eat probably in case he doesn't workout and she has a plan B to land on which is you.
> 
> Quit projecting your love onto her (thinking she feels about you like you do her). If she did you wouldn't be where you are now would you?
> 
> Don't worry about your slip up you're human but you need to stop. Hard 180 or you'll just keep yourself in limbo.


I fully expect him to show up and get the 'it's not what it looks like speech'. 

I wont be a plan B once D is finalized I will be moving on.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> It would be best for you to get out of your denial and take her down off the pedestal you have her on.


This I what I needed to hear today. I believe and take in all you guys says but keep slipping up I just get overwhelmed and blinded with emotions continually.

Really need to work with IC on detaching in a healthy way, its the logical and best thing to do I just can't seem to do it successfully.


----------



## MovingForward

stixx said:


> I suggest you stop making excuses for your mistakes.
> 
> I also suggest you stop making mistakes.
> 
> It's sort of like this... you're in a hole and you've got a shovel in your hand and every time you do something like have sex with your wife who is on the fence and calling all the shots when it comes to divorcing you, it's like you're removing a bit more dirt from the bottom of the hole which causes you to sink even deeper.
> 
> You see, making excuses doesn't put the dirt back in the whole. If anything, it removes even more.


I am making a lot of mistakes, pretty much everyone in the book, worst part is if i take a step back I can see but I get blinded in the moment.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> We just got into it. She mentioned about continuing to be friends and i mentioned about let's see what's happen since i have a lot of doubts about you, mentioned her behavior which she denied and tried to put back on me. Everything gets flipped


NOPE, you cannot be friends. And for the love of god, STOP having sex with her, and STOP engaging with her! Its time to accept the reality of your situation and stop letting her cake eat and use you!


----------



## MovingForward

jayperdue said:


> It depends on your situation, who filed, how long were you married , how many kids and how old. If it was going to get worse, you would know by now, usually wives with a "plan" file for a temporary restraining order at the same time they file for divorce. If you did not get one, it s good, but beware. it could come later. In 1/3 of divorce proceedings wives file false domestic violence allegations


12 years, 2 kids, both us in our 30's. Kids both in elementary. 

She filed but no temp orders or any legal surprised just yet.


----------



## Marc878

It takes awhile for your heart to sync up to your mind. Keep the cold hard facts in front of you. The truth of where you are will help


----------



## MovingForward

dubsey said:


> She's setting you up to be the side piece.


I just don't understand why she would want me as a side piece, you mean a back up plan if it doesn't work out or just an occasional booty call?


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> NOPE, you cannot be friends. And for the love of god, STOP having sex with her, and STOP engaging with her! Its time to accept the reality of your situation and stop letting her cake eat and use you!


Yes I know I was weak.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> The reason she wants soft dates is she is not sure of OP (other person). I think the time she came home crying she was actually suppose to be with the other person.


I agree and so does the IC.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> MF, you really need to reject her.
> 
> I have odds on her flying into a rage in the moment, then spending the better part of the next day upping her pressure on you.


In the moment I was thinking with my piece and nothing else, this D is turning me stupid.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> It takes awhile for your heart to sync up to your mind. Keep the cold hard facts in front of you. The truth of where you are will help


Yes that is true, I would sit myself down and tell me what I am doing is wrong and how to proceed but my mind keeps failing me, not got a full grip of myself yet. Working on it and hope to moveforward successfully without looking back once I am past this.

I wish I had been in a better position socially when this came about the lack of support system is very isolating, that is why I am in this forum so much I just need to vent and talk about it.


----------



## Diana7

My husband ex wanted them still to be friends so that she could call on him to help her out with things such as diy, paperwork etc. So she wanted him to do the husbandly things but didn't want him as her husband. It was very selfish actually and to be honest how dare someone who is destroying the marriage expect that? Eventually he had to tell her to stop contacting him at all. 
I think you need to say that sorry, you can't be friends, its the marriage or nothing. By having sex with you she is keeping you hanging on a string, as her plan B.


----------



## MovingForward

Diana7 said:


> My husband ex wanted them still to be friends so that she could call on him to help her out with things such as diy, paperwork etc. So she wanted him to do the husbandly things but didn't want him as her husband. It was very selfish actually and to be honest how dare someone who is destroying the marriage expect that? Eventually he had to tell her to stop contacting him at all.
> I think you need to say that sorry, you can't be friends, its the marriage or nothing. By having sex with you she is keeping you hanging on a string, as her plan B.


It is and that's not something I will allow to happen, hope is something I keep letting slip back in my mind but once D is final there is not hope to have so should be easy to let go although sad at the same time once reality hits.


----------



## bandit.45

MovingForward said:


> I just don't understand why she would want me as a side piece, you mean a back up plan if it doesn't work out or just an occasional booty call?


Because women keep their options open. It is instinctive with them. They always have a backup plan.


----------



## Satya

MovingForward said:


> In the moment I was thinking with my piece and nothing else, this D is turning me stupid.


That's why we're urging you to stay AWAY from her. You can't think clearly in a toxic environment. 180.


----------



## Satya

bandit.45 said:


> Because women keep their options open. It is instinctive with them. They always have a backup plan.


Bandit is correct.

A woman will not "swing to another branch" blindly. She must know it's there and solid enough to support her weight. Knowing it's there is enough, so she can swing at any time she chooses. 

Time to pull out that machete and cut that branch she has secured to get back to you, figuratively speaking...


----------



## Diana7

MovingForward said:


> It is and that's not something I will allow to happen, hope is something I keep letting slip back in my mind but once D is final there is not hope to have so should be easy to let go although sad at the same time once reality hits.


I meant while the divorce was going on as well as just after it. This was also after we had met and were dating. Mind you he didnt have sex with her!!!!

I think in the end that you have to let her know what it will be like without you in her life at all, except to collect and take back the children. I cant understand why you cant collect the children now and take them out. Why do you have to be in the same home all that time?


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> That's why we're urging you to stay AWAY from her. You can't think clearly in a toxic environment. 180.


When do you start thinking clear again, I hope it comes fast after D


----------



## Marc878

When you can hold a hard 180. Every time you get drug back into this you do a downturn.

I'm sure you've noticed that.


----------



## MovingForward

Diana7 said:


> I meant while the divorce was going on as well as just after it. This was also after we had met and were dating. Mind you he didnt have sex with her!!!!
> 
> I think in the end that you have to let her know what it will be like without you in her life at all, except to collect and take back the children. I cant understand why you cant collect the children now and take them out. Why do you have to be in the same home all that time?


I cannot leave as it it would mess me up in court financially, I do spend a reasonable amount of time out the house but still have to sleep there and do the day to day things with the children, homework, activities, bath time etc.

Problem is I do not have many friends and have no family so always being out the house takes quite a bit of work.


----------



## Marc878

At this time you are your biggest problem. You know long term she's gone and you should know you should be detaching. Easier said than done.

You control your phone. Never answer a call direct, respond to only texts or emails about kids, D or business. Ignore everything else. You're in a habit of responding to everything. Gotta break that.

Push the D hard and get her out. Any contact just rolls you backwards. Read the 180 again


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> At this time you are your biggest problem. You know long term she's gone and you should know you should be detaching. Easier said than done.
> 
> You control your phone. Never answer a call direct, respond to only texts or emails about kids, D or business. Ignore everything else. You're in a habit of responding to everything. Gotta break that.
> 
> Push the D hard and get her out. Any contact just rolls you backwards. Read the 180 again


I keep hurting myself, its that hope I cannot let go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to get signed and done then I can move on with my life easier. Just another month to get past.


----------



## dubsey

MovingForward said:


> I just don't understand why she would want me as a side piece, you mean a back up plan if it doesn't work out or just an occasional booty call?


Booty call and/or backup plan. Mostly, it's about power and control. She waves the booty, you jump at it.

Even if she lives with the BF, she knows she has control over you, and that is absurdly rewarding to a human's brain.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> I keep hurting myself, its that hope I cannot let go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to get signed and done then I can move on with my life easier. Just another month to get past.


You need to work on letting go of that hope. What are you hoping for, someone who has shown they dont give two ****s about hurting you? You will be right back here in less than a year's time if you were to get what you are "hoping" for.


----------



## Taxman

MovingForward said:


> No it is a daily thing and no requests ever come from it.
> 
> The hovering over staring sounds very uncomfortable LOL I'm glad I just get the nakedness.


If she is standing over you at night, get 10-15 rat traps and surround your bed with them. Evenutally she will have the unpleasant experience of having one snap on her foot. That should cure her hover.


----------



## MovingForward

Taxman said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it is a daily thing and no requests ever come from it.
> 
> The hovering over staring sounds very uncomfortable LOL I'm glad I just get the nakedness.
> 
> 
> 
> If she is standing over you at night, get 10-15 rat traps and surround your bed with them. Evenutally she will have the unpleasant experience of having one snap on her foot. That should cure her hover.
Click to expand...

No the standing over st night was @grapes lol my wife just walks around naked constantly and occasionally wants sex.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep hurting myself, its that hope I cannot let go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to get signed and done then I can move on with my life easier. Just another month to get past.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to work on letting go of that hope. What are you hoping for, someone who has shown they dont give two ****s about hurting you? You will be right back here in less than a year's time if you were to get what you are "hoping" for.
Click to expand...

I know I just have this stupid thought that this is a phase and we can figure it Out and get back to being happy again. Blinded or dumbed by love maybe I know I am wrong but my heart keeps messing with my mind


----------



## MovingForward

Well almost made it through another day of feeling like crap and feeling sorry for myself, not going home until Wednesday and this usually is a good distraction but today not so much.

Just been reading my posts and boy am I acting pathetic just wish I could shake this dark cloud.

Trying to fit in more IC since I really need it and looking to go to a men's group meeting next week to see how that is, anything to keep busy, talk to people and get out the house.

Hoping I can sleep well tonight and wake up in a better mindset.


----------



## Marc878

Have you tried joining a gym and working out. Perfect time to become a ladykiller!!!!


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Have you tried joining a gym and working out. Perfect time to become a ladykiller!!!!


Yes I do workout quite frequently but since I went alone It lacked a social aspect so Joined a workout group and start Thursday it will get me out the house and more involved with people socially and more connected, that is what I am struggling with the most the lack of connection or personal converations with anyone during this time, I did not realize how dependent I was on my wife for that until she stopped fulfilling the role.


----------



## JohnA

Good for you reading old your past posts. Nothing shows you are growing then reading something you wrote years ago, or last week to cause a reality check. Also, once in a while you surprise yourself. You read a post you have written and think "damn, that's really good".


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Good for you reading old your past posts. Nothing shows you are growing then reading something you wrote years ago, or last week to cause a reality check. Also, once in a while you surprise yourself. You read a post you have written and think "damn, that's really good".


Not quite there yet @johna I read and think dam I'm stupid.


----------



## Bellyscratch

After going through some of the nightmares you have gone through, I have to tell you that one thought really changed everything for me. It is that the only thing in your control is you and your actions. Since people have free will, you cannot realistically believe that they will do the right thing or fall into your way of thinking. Once I played this belief over and over in my head and put them into action, I was able to let go of those things out of my control and start concentrating on my own life's direction. I know it sounds cheesy and contrived, but it worked for me.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> I keep hurting myself, its that hope I cannot let go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to get signed and done then I can move on with my life easier. Just another month to get past.


You act as if divorce papers are suddenly going to heal you. The only thing that can heal you is you. The only way to do that is to choose the proper actions that lead to your healing. 

You can be divorced and still choose poorly.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> I know I just have this stupid thought that this is a phase and we can figure it Out and get back to being happy again. Blinded or dumbed by love maybe I know I am wrong but my heart keeps messing with my mind


You think you're the only person that is going through this? The only thing that will change you is when you decide to change.


----------



## MovingForward

Bellyscratch said:


> After going through some of the nightmares you have gone through, I have to tell you that one thought really changed everything for me. It is that the only thing in your control is you and your actions. Since people have free will, you cannot realistically believe that they will do the right thing or fall into your way of thinking. Once I played this belief over and over in my head and put them into action, I was able to let go of those things out of my control and start concentrating on my own life's direction. I know it sounds cheesy and contrived, but it worked for me.


I keep trying to focus on just me but get side tracked because I am weak


----------



## farsidejunky

Have you read this yet?

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


----------



## Satya

Because ... nothing.
You need to start taking ownership for your well-being. You're allowed to be down and depressed, we all go through that phase, but getting side-tracked without steady progress is no excuse. No one else is going to make progress for you.

Reflection is good.
Wallowing is not good.

“Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do.”
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe & Bruce Lee


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep hurting myself, its that hope I cannot let go off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to get signed and done then I can move on with my life easier. Just another month to get past.
> 
> 
> 
> You act as if divorce papers are suddenly going to heal you. The only thing that can heal you is you. The only way to do that is to choose the proper actions that lead to your healing.
> 
> You can be divorced and still choose poorly.
Click to expand...

I just feel at that point I can start a new life, know my finances and schedule and be able to potentially look to date or at least consider starting to make a plan to


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Have you read this yet?
> 
> https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


I will have a read later thanks


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> I just feel at that point I can start a new life, know my finances and schedule and be able to potentially look to date or at least consider starting to make a plan to


You need to get yourself right first. Don't even think about dating yet. You're not close to being ready for that, and it would be very unfair to any woman you might go out on a date with.

Focus on you right now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Grapes

Finally caught up MF.

You need some stillness in your life. Your thread reads like your going 100000 MPH emotionally. You need to slow yourself down a little and clear your head for the extremly important decisions your about to make regarding D.

I wouldn't be surprised if the sex you just had was manipulation to throw you off your game. You got mediation comming up and what better way to butter you up for some extra cashola then sex? "If I let MF stick is pickled monster into my 1 eyed clam cave i bet I can squeeze a little more out of him". Dont fall for it.

Im not sure the sentiment around these parts for meditation but you might benefit from it. talk to your IC. Its helped me. Its ok to have the feelings you have but you also need to have a center. A place where its not hectic - Its calm - with no noise. You need to find that center and meditation can help with that.


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just feel at that point I can start a new life, know my finances and schedule and be able to potentially look to date or at least consider starting to make a plan to
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get yourself right first. Don't even think about dating yet. You're not close to being ready for that, and it would be very unfair to any woman you might go out on a date with.
> 
> Focus on you right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm trying to but not sure what exactly focus on on me entails, I am trying to get out more make more friends and just be social but feel very lonely.


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> Finally caught up MF.
> 
> You need some stillness in your life. Your thread reads like your going 100000 MPH emotionally. You need to slow yourself down a little and clear your head for the extremly important decisions your about to make regarding D.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the sex you just had was manipulation to throw you off your game. You got mediation comming up and what better way to butter you up for some extra cashola then sex? "If I let MF stick is pickled monster into my 1 eyed clam cave i bet I can squeeze a little more out of him". Dont fall for it.
> 
> Im not sure the sentiment around these parts for meditation but you might benefit from it. talk to your IC. Its helped me. Its ok to have the feelings you have but you also need to have a center. A place where its not hectic - Its calm - with no noise. You need to find that center and meditation can help with that.


I am running 1000mph my head is constantly racing with emotions. I am on IC But not as much as I would like it is hard with work schedule to fit in so about every 10-14 days which leaves long periods in between. 

I know I am just moaning constantly evenually I will get over it.


----------



## Bellyscratch

The feeling of being weak is normal for all the stuff you have been through. But take it from someone who was in the depths of despair, you will get stronger everyday, every week, month and year. You will find that weak feeling become one of strength and empowerment. Remember, the most important person in your life is you, so take care of that person and one day you will wake up and your new life will open up in front of you.


----------



## MovingForward

Bellyscratch said:


> The feeling of being weak is normal for all the stuff you have been through. But take it from someone who was in the depths of despair, you will get stronger everyday, every week, month and year. You will find that weak feeling become one of strength and empowerment. Remember, the most important person in your life is you, so take care of that person and one day you will wake up and your new life will open up in front of you.


I hope so this process has just knocked everything out of me sense and all. I know there are people much worse off and in much worse positions yet I still don't seem to be able to shake it or get out of this mindset. It's like my entire sense of worth and security just vanished and I feel just lost and all over the place and can't focus


----------



## JohnA

Man, I here you. Remember base you self esteem on how you handle yourself in reacting to an event not on what the other persons actions where. 

For example: adultery is a seperate event and has nothing to do with the BS. What you should judge yourself on is how do I respond: go ape nuts, roll over and beg or just quiet and firm rejection of the adultery and move quickly to build a life without WS. Reconcilation should only be considered AFTER this has been planned and implementation started and the WS asks. 

So, ask yourself what an action says about you before acting. Choose one that makes you proud.

PS: I can't believe your MC told you she already has someone on hand. Use that guy for IC.


----------



## Satya

MovingForward said:


> I'm trying to but not sure what exactly focus on on me entails, I am trying to get out more make more friends and just be social but feel very lonely.


It sucks feeling lonely but it's healthy to learn to be alone and survive alone for a while. When you live through an entire month or two and loneliness is furthest from your thoughts, that's when you can start thinking about dating. 

To go date someone now would be a temporary bandaid, and it'll hurt more to rip it off because the wound underneath is no where near healed. You'll just tear the scab off and bleed all over again. In other words, rushing into a relationship, even for fun right now will delay your overall progress.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> I'm trying to but not sure what exactly focus on on me entails, I am trying to get out more make more friends and just be social but feel very lonely.


It means focus on getting through this first. Focus on healing the emotional damage. Focus on rebuilding your self-esteem. Focusing on figuring put who you are now that you're no longer someone's husband. Focus on figuring out what kind if life you want to live, and make that happen. Focus on the 180 and becoming stronger. Focus on working on yourself and becoming the best version of yourself you can be.

That's what it means.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Grapes

@MovingForward - how are you doing?


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## JohnA

Any surprise requests for additional money or custody ?


----------



## Grapes

Im not so sure how to take the silence. good or bad..??..


----------



## MovingForward

Grapes said:


> @MovingForward - how are you doing?


Had a rough time but getting through it.

Been keeping myself really really busy, working out a lot and hanging out with new people I have recently met but socially everything has involved alcohol and have been drinking way too much, need to slow that down because it really doesn't help once it wears off. Have the odd hour here and there where I just have a few minutes to break down then get back on with it.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Any surprise requests for additional money or custody ?


No she has been very reasonable so far, agreed to 50/50 with Children in mediation, not the exact plan I wanted but we compromised, agreed to most assets also which I feel good about. Only have alimony left to discuss which we have not gotten into in Mediation but we had a fight about at the weekend.

Hopefully things continue to be this civil, does not take away any of the pain of the situation but eases a lot of the extra stress which I am thankful for.

She seemed really happy after the mediation and was in a great mood the rest of the day, looks like she is very excited to be getting this all over with and me out of her life.

Once thing which I guess did not come as a shock was when discussing significant others she wanted a much shorter time frame for introducing them to the Children which angered me but I did not show and the mediator even tried to explain how that is not recommended but she would not budge other than agreeing to no overnights with children in the house for the time frame I had wanted which was 6 months. Might revisit this part since I am not comfortable with it but let it slide for the time being while we work out the more complicated parts.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> It means focus on getting through this first. Focus on healing the emotional damage. Focus on rebuilding your self-esteem. Focusing on figuring put who you are now that you're no longer someone's husband. Focus on figuring out what kind if life you want to live, and make that happen. Focus on the 180 and becoming stronger. Focus on working on yourself and becoming the best version of yourself you can be.
> 
> That's what it means.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


OK, It's just going to take some time I think to fully get over this and not exactly sure on how and where to start but it will happen, it has to.


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> It sucks feeling lonely but it's healthy to learn to be alone and survive alone for a while. When you live through an entire month or two and loneliness is furthest from your thoughts, that's when you can start thinking about dating.
> 
> To go date someone now would be a temporary bandaid, and it'll hurt more to rip it off because the wound underneath is no where near healed. You'll just tear the scab off and bleed all over again. In other words, rushing into a relationship, even for fun right now will delay your overall progress.


I can see that currently, I was just having a major breakdown at the point I was thinking about all that, feel a lot clearer headed currently so hope I manage to maintain this clarity for a while.

It was the loneliness that was eating me up and worrying about stuff way to far ahead in the future to be relevant at this point, I just need to try and slow my brain down and take each day as it comes, I was already dreading spending Christmas alone as ridiculous as that sounds being as we are only in April, I have also been panicking about a new guy being in the picture with my Children and to an extent my STBXW and need to just stop that thought process since it is not healthy or productive.


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## JohnA

Hi,

Keep owing yourself. Your post show clearly you are aware of your behavior both good and bad. Keep focusing on improving the good and elimanting the bad. Focus on the doable now not the what ifs and what you have little or no control over. The OM is tomorrow's issue at this time so tread lightly. Her thinking and actions show she is experiencing limberness. Take advantage of it.


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> OK, It's just going to take some time I think to fully get over this and not exactly sure on how and where to start but it will happen, it has to.


IC is a good place to start. How do you feel about self-help books? I can recommend some good ones. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> I can see that currently, I was just having a major breakdown at the point I was thinking about all that, feel a lot clearer headed currently so hope I manage to maintain this clarity for a while.
> 
> It was the loneliness that was eating me up and worrying about stuff way to far ahead in the future to be relevant at this point, I just need to try and slow my brain down and take each day as it comes, I was already dreading spending Christmas alone as ridiculous as that sounds being as we are only in April, I have also been panicking about a new guy being in the picture with my Children and to an extent my STBXW and need to just stop that thought process since it is not healthy or productive.


The first year is always the hardest, facing all those holidays and figuring out how to deal with them if you're alone. 

I dealt with it by making new traditions for myself. I've seen others do this as well. If the kids will be with her for Christmas or Thanksgiving, consider volunteering or taking a trip.

Also, cut out the drinking. It doesn't help. You can have one or two if in a social situation, but stay sober. You don't want to develop a drinking problem because of this. You have control over yourself. This situation doesn't have to control you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Keep owing yourself. Your post show clearly you are aware of your behavior both good and bad. Keep focusing on improving the good and elimanting the bad. Focus on the doable now not the what ifs and what you have little or no control over. The OM is tomorrow's issue at this time so tread lightly. Her thinking and actions show she is experiencing limberness. Take advantage of it.


Yeah I am aware but it has not stopped me messing up time and time again, I am quite calm at the moment I just need to keep the mess ups to a minimum.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> IC is a good place to start. How do you feel about self-help books? I can recommend some good ones.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes I would love some recommendations for books!! I can read them on my work trips.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> Yes I would love some recommendations for books!! I can read them on my work trips.


Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> The first year is always the hardest, facing all those holidays and figuring out how to deal with them if you're alone.
> 
> I dealt with it by making new traditions for myself. I've seen others do this as well. If the kids will be with her for Christmas or Thanksgiving, consider volunteering or taking a trip.
> 
> Also, cut out the drinking. It doesn't help. You can have one or two if in a social situation, but stay sober. You don't want to develop a drinking problem because of this. You have control over yourself. This situation doesn't have to control you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes that's what I need to figure out, I had Thanksgiving alone this year and that was depressing and I am not even from a country that celebrates it so Christmas which is by far my favorite Holiday will be tough so need to figure something out, I do really like the idea of volunteering and had not thought about that, I used to work with a guy who is heavily involved in lots of charity work so could get with him.

I do need to find another outlet to drinking, I found some people to hang out with which is good but activities have all involved alcohol so not so good so need to find other areas of interest we share.

I have made more casual acquaintances in the last 3-4 months than I have in the last 10 years of living in the USA so something positive is coming out of this i just need to take the right ones from casual acquaintance to good friend.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine.


Thanks FSJ, have you gotten some good takeaways from this book?


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> Thanks FSJ, have you gotten some good takeaways from this book?


Yes. It is about identifying what principles are important to you, and then living by them.

When you live by your principles, the people who should be in your life become more prevalent, and the people who should not slowly drift away.

Not only that, but you build respect for the man in mirror.


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## sokillme

You know you may not be alone. Don't just assume the worst is going to happen. Strive forward my friend. You will have joy again.


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## MovingForward

sokillme said:


> You know you may not be alone. Don't just assume the worst is going to happen. Strive forward my friend. You will have joy again.


Thanks for the support, I would be slightly more positive if I had my family in the same country but not having anyone near made it seem pretty hopeless.

I liked FIP's ideas on Volunteering or taking a trip if i can afford it at the time, I feel that could work out.


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> Thanks for the support, I would be slightly more positive if I had my family in the same country but not having anyone near made it seem pretty hopeless.
> 
> I liked FIP's ideas on Volunteering or taking a trip if i can afford it at the time, I feel that could work out.


If you have hobbies join groups for them. You will meet like minded people.


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## MovingForward

sokillme said:


> If you have hobbies join groups for them. You will meet like minded people.


I Just started at a group workout facility a couple hours a week which is fun and tiring :smile2:

I have been looking at others hobbies to fill time once this finalizes also and there are a lot of things i am excited to do and try.


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## Marc878

You're going to be fine plus you'll be out of the turmoil if you can do a hard 180


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## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> You're going to be fine plus you'll be out of the turmoil if you can do a hard 180


Yeah the Mediation definitely helped knowing some aspects went well, it is hard to pin point in situations like this where the pain and stress is coming from since so much is going on at one time, I had the child and financial aspects, loss of stability and support system, unknown living situation, general shock and fear of unknown, rejection, loss of self there was just so much I was trying to wrap my head around at one time I just did not know where to start.

Currently I know where I will live, know I will have Children 50% of time with plenty of flexibility for vacations, my Job is supporting a new schedule. I am currently working on and having some success rebuilding a social life and I am IC for general support and to help with the rejection, self esteem and to try and work through this process in a healthy manner since I still have a lot of frustration, anger and fear inside but having some things resolved has definitely helped relieve some pressure. 

Just have a few things bothering me at times such as a New man around kids and still occasionally get angry/sad about the thought of STBXW with new guy and obviously figuring out plans in future for all the 'family' times/holidays we celebrated together in the past where we will not be together anymore but hopefully IC and getting everything else in place will help ease that somewhat.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Yes I would love some recommendations for books!! I can read them on my work trips.


OK, so here are 3 which I found helpful:

Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours
Getting Past Your Breakup: How to Turn a Devastating Loss into the Best Thing That Ever Happened to You
Healing Your Emotional Self: A Powerful Program to Help You Raise Your Self-Esteem, Quiet Your Inner Critic, and Overcome Your Shame

This book is supposed to guide you on the decision on whether to stay or to go, but I found it useful even though I read it after the marriage ended, because it helped me identify the problems that I had either ignored (subconsciously), overlooked, or didn't realize were problems. I think this is important because if, like me, you grew up with dysfunctional relationship role models and/or had dysfunctional relationships with your FOO, it's hard to recognize what is and what is not a healthy relationship, and this helps.
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship

In the same vein, my IC had me read this, because she realized that while I knew how to behave in a healthy relationship (and that was what I really wanted), I didn't know how to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy behaviors in a partner:
The Complete Idiot's Guide to a Healthy Relationship

I also read some other books, but they were geared towards women, so I don't think they will be useful to you.

I also bought this one (and the corresponding workbook), but I didn't end up reading it, only because I had already read so many others and was kind of getting burnt out on the whole self-help process, and had already made a lot of progress. But I would still recommend it.
Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends

I'm reading this one right now:
The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are

And once you have worked on yourself, and think you might be ready to start dating again. These are on my to-read list presently. I realized, once I became involved with my current partner, that I wasn't as healed as I thought. Personally, I was doing great as a SINGLE person... but being in a real relationship again showed me that I still had a lot of triggers and other issues to work through. (Luckily, he's been very patient with me... partly because he's amazing, and partly because he knows he has a lot of the same issues and needs the same patience from me. Funny thing, I bought these books only a month or so before meeting him, it was like something inside me knew I was going to need these.)
How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving
Daring to Trust: Opening Ourselves to Real Love and Intimacy
When the Past Is Present: Healing the Emotional Wounds that Sabotage our Relationships


----------



## lifeistooshort

MF, it's understandable that the thought of a new guy around your ex and kids is painful. 

Having said that, try to be careful about picking fights on that front. Any new guy must treat your kids well of course but beyond that its none of your business. 

And the day will come when you have a new woman in your life..... you surely don't want your ex wife sticking her nose in. If you open the box of getting involved in her personal life you open the door for her to do it to you. 

On that note, please don't date while you're hung up on your ex. It's not fair to a new woman. 

Take the time you need to heal.


----------



## MovingForward

lifeistooshort said:


> MF, it's understandable that the thought of a new guy around your ex and kids is painful.
> 
> Having said that, try to be careful about picking fights on that front. Any new guy must treat your kids well of course but beyond that its none of your business.
> 
> And the day will come when you have a new woman in your life..... you surely don't want your ex wife sticking her nose in. If you open the box of getting involved in her personal life you open the door for her to do it to you.
> 
> On that note, please don't date while you're hung up on your ex. It's not fair to a new woman.
> 
> Take the time you need to heal.


It is not that I want to stick my nose in, I would not want anything to do with it unless it negatively affected the children, it is just a painful thought and not sure why since I shouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't care about me anymore but it still bothers me. 

I think for the Children I just hate the idea of them having another father figure in there life which is going to happen and I cant do anything about it but maybe I am jealous or scared about the idea of them having a family unit and doing stuff as a family which will not involve me anymore since any new guy who moves in will be spending as much time with them as I will. 

My STBXW can be in her home town with Parents, brothers, sisters and a large extended family of Aunts, uncles and cousins in a matter of hours so in the future when they all go to visit(new man included) and do all the fun stuff the kids love I will no longer be part of any of those memories.

Regarding dating I don't plan on pursuing anything at the minute, I did have times over the last few weeks where I felt in desperation mode and felt like I needed to for some reason but honestly I have been out of the dating scene for so long I would not even know where to start or what to do and if I figured that part out I doubt I would even have the confidence to go on a date with anyone.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> OK, so here are 3 which I found helpful:
> 
> Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours
> Getting Past Your Breakup: How to Turn a Devastating Loss into the Best Thing That Ever Happened to You
> Healing Your Emotional Self: A Powerful Program to Help You Raise Your Self-Esteem, Quiet Your Inner Critic, and Overcome Your Shame
> 
> This book is supposed to guide you on the decision on whether to stay or to go, but I found it useful even though I read it after the marriage ended, because it helped me identify the problems that I had either ignored (subconsciously), overlooked, or didn't realize were problems. I think this is important because if, like me, you grew up with dysfunctional relationship role models and/or had dysfunctional relationships with your FOO, it's hard to recognize what is and what is not a healthy relationship, and this helps.
> Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship
> 
> In the same vein, my IC had me read this, because she realized that while I knew how to behave in a healthy relationship (and that was what I really wanted), I didn't know how to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy behaviors in a partner:
> The Complete Idiot's Guide to a Healthy Relationship
> 
> I also read some other books, but they were geared towards women, so I don't think they will be useful to you.
> 
> I also bought this one (and the corresponding workbook), but I didn't end up reading it, only because I had already read so many others and was kind of getting burnt out on the whole self-help process, and had already made a lot of progress. But I would still recommend it.
> Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends
> 
> I'm reading this one right now:
> The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
> 
> And once you have worked on yourself, and think you might be ready to start dating again. These are on my to-read list presently. I realized, once I became involved with my current partner, that I wasn't as healed as I thought. Personally, I was doing great as a SINGLE person... but being in a real relationship again showed me that I still had a lot of triggers and other issues to work through. (Luckily, he's been very patient with me... partly because he's amazing, and partly because he knows he has a lot of the same issues and needs the same patience from me. Funny thing, I bought these books only a month or so before meeting him, it was like something inside me knew I was going to need these.)
> How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving
> Daring to Trust: Opening Ourselves to Real Love and Intimacy
> When the Past Is Present: Healing the Emotional Wounds that Sabotage our Relationships


Thanks this is a lot of information, I will add these to my list.


----------



## Marc878

lifeistooshort said:


> MF, it's understandable that the thought of a new guy around your ex and kids is painful.
> 
> Having said that, try to be careful about picking fights on that front. Any new guy must treat your kids well of course but beyond that its none of your business.
> 
> And the day will come when you have a new woman in your life..... you surely don't want your ex wife sticking her nose in. If you open the box of getting involved in her personal life you open the door for her to do it to you.
> 
> On that note, please don't date while you're hung up on your ex. It's not fair to a new woman.
> 
> Take the time you need to heal.


Excellent advice. IC can help you "let it go". You are going to find yourself a commodity for other women. Beware and read up on "Rebounds".

A friend of mine does a real hard 180. Text or email kids only!!!! You'll want to answer phone calls from the STBXW. Don't ever pick up!!! Let it go to voice mail. Never answer a phone call direct. She wanted out. Keep her there for you're own good.

Pickups/drop offs should be a 5 minute exercise. *No engagement !!!!*

There's no good in contact with your X. If she cared about you she wouldn't have left. Move on with your life like she has.

No relationship will survive with an X or memory of an X in it


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> Thanks this is a lot of information, I will add these to my list.


You don't necessarily have to read all of them. I'm a reader by nature, and it's how I learn best, so I read a lot of books. I found many of them had a lot of the same stuff/ideas, and the repetitive nature of reading multiple books helped me to internalize what I was reading.

You may wish to read the descriptions and the reviews on the Amazon links to help you choose which books are most appropriate for you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Excellent advice. IC can help you "let it go". You are going to find yourself a commodity for other women. Beware and read up on "Rebounds".
> 
> A friend of mine does a real hard 180. Text or email kids only!!!! You'll want to answer phone calls from the STBXW. Don't ever pick up!!! Let it go to voice mail. Never answer a phone call direct. She wanted out. Keep her there for you're own good.
> 
> Pickups/drop offs should be a 5 minute exercise. *No engagement !!!!*
> 
> There's no good in contact with your X. If she cared about you she wouldn't have left. Move on with your life like she has.
> 
> No relationship will survive with an X or memory of an X in it


I dont think I need to worry about a rebound just yet Marc:smile2: Still stuck in same house for a few months with STBXW and need to build confidence and trust back up.

Had a pretty good day today and not been on edge or anxious much at all it has felt quite nice.

I have another IC appointment tomorrow and always looks forward to them it is great to talk about frustrations and have someone offer real help and solutions, I really like the guy we just seem to click, I get all emotional walking in and during and then leave feeling pretty good.


----------



## MovingForward

Steve1000 said:


> After reading your other thread, I just want to chime in and say that you are handling this pretty well considering it just happened recently and that you are still living in the same house with a wife that has given you mixed messages. Only six weeks ago, you assumed that you are your wife would be married indefinitely.
> 
> I guess that right now, you are still in a state of shock. In the next few months, there will still be some very painful times. You will get through it.


Just reread this, I was definitely in shock at the time :smile2: I broke down really bad after this many times over. 

Just like to reread and see how I was to how I am doing, sometimes I don't even recognize myself in my writing and its like reading a strangers story.


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## JohnA

Learning to live on your own as a single dad is the second hardest thing to do. Keep at it, accept when you do well and when you fail. When you fail push though it. Your ex gets to see or know any of this. My mother shocked me when my marriage failed by saying "she gets nothing from you. Don't ever show your pain and grief, she gets nothing!". For once I listen and I am grateful. 

Understand in ending the marriage she was way ahead of the curve emotional on you. But she is clueless about being alone. Her day will come and when it does, she gets nothing from you. No sympathy, no "now you know", nothing.

What does you family know and what does her's know ?


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Learning to live on your own as a single dad is the second hardest thing to do. Keep at it, accept when you do well and when you fail. When you fail push though it. Your ex gets to see or know any of this. My mother shocked me when my marriage failed by saying "she gets nothing from you. Don't ever show your pain and grief, she gets nothing!". For once I listen and I am grateful.
> 
> Understand in ending the marriage she was way ahead of the curve emotional on you. But she is clueless about being alone. Her day will come and when it does, she gets nothing from you. No sympathy, no "now you know", nothing.
> 
> What does you family know and what does her's know ?


JohnA lucky for me all I will find hard is the lack of companionship and feeling like I had someone there for me who loved me which is something I am already having to deal with, cooking, cleaning, laundry and child care is something I do anyway and have no issues with. By being divorced I am going to gain a ton of free time which is something I have never really had since we had kids and my stbxw free time is going to be reduced greatly also financially I am in a good place currently and she is going to have to get used to being much more careful with outgoings so on that side of things I am ahead although as you mention emotionally I was what felt like 10 years behind, it seemed like she was already divorced emotionally and just needed the Legal side taking care of as a formality while I was just learning about it!!!! 

She told her parents she wasn't happy and was divorcing me and I recently told my parents that she has filed and we are getting divorced but no other details. I still want kids involved and close to grandparents on both sides so providing no one tries to enforce there will or opinion on anything we should be able to keep in laws out of it.


----------



## Marc878

Set good hard boundaries. It's fine letting the kids see their grandparents but you'll need to distance from that. Blood is always thicker than water.

Don't do shared holidays or go over for dinner. You may end up setting across from her other man.

Holidays, birthdays, etc should be separate. Do not do family dinners. You aren't family anymore.

Once she's out of the home I'd do a full purge of her things, especially pictures.

You'll move on and get a life of your own a lot faster that way.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Set good hard boundaries. It's fine letting the kids see their grandparents but you'll need to distance from that. Blood is always thicker than water.
> 
> Don't do shared holidays or go over for dinner. You may end up setting across from her other man.
> 
> Holidays, birthdays, etc should be separate. Do not do family dinners. You aren't family anymore.
> 
> Once she's out of the home I'd do a full purge of her things, especially pictures.
> 
> You'll move on and get a life of your own a lot faster that way.


That won't be a problem the grandparents are in another state so I doubt I will see them again as would have no reason to ever go to the town they live in, I just wanted to avoid any bad blood between us so the children don't hear bad things about either parent and make them feel like they need to take a side.

I already have plans to put all pictures in storage and remove all decor so I can start making house my own, I even plan to repaint a lot of areas even though picking the colors was about my only contribution to decorating the house LOL but I need to stop it being our house and make it my house.


----------



## Marc878

I'd recommend a tall long legged female interior designer to help you out. 

The master bedroom would be a good place to start!!!!!


----------



## Marc878

I like leather furniture. It's tasteful and fashionable and makes cool sounds when you're rolling around on it.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> That won't be a problem the grandparents are in another state so I doubt I will see them again as would have no reason to ever go to the town they live in, I just wanted to avoid any bad blood between us so the children don't hear bad things about either parent and make them feel like they need to take a side.
> 
> I already have plans to put all pictures in storage and remove all decor so I can start making house my own, I even plan to repaint a lot of areas even though picking the colors was about my only contribution to decorating the house LOL but I need to stop it being our house and make it my house.


Why not start taking the pics down now?


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> I'd recommend a tall long legged female interior designer to help you out.
> 
> The master bedroom would be a good place to start!!!!!





Marc878 said:


> I like leather furniture. It's tasteful and fashionable and makes cool sounds when you're rolling around on it.


LOL



Marc878 said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> That won't be a problem the grandparents are in another state so I doubt I will see them again as would have no reason to ever go to the town they live in, I just wanted to avoid any bad blood between us so the children don't hear bad things about either parent and make them feel like they need to take a side.
> 
> I already have plans to put all pictures in storage and remove all decor so I can start making house my own, I even plan to repaint a lot of areas even though picking the colors was about my only contribution to decorating the house LOL but I need to stop it being our house and make it my house.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not start taking the pics down now?
Click to expand...

Because Currently everything is smooth and easy so just want to keep it that way and avoid any conflict until all over, me canceling cleaner since I didn't need one caused a shouting match so would rather not engage at all and just wait it out for a couple more months.


----------



## JohnA

One way to slip in the strong possibilty of an OM is to respond to questions about how it is going: So far the only real sticking point is about her wanting a very short time before introducing other men to our children. 

Overnights with children in the home, is her family ok with that? 

Finally, your in your children's home. Wow, you have no idea how important that is and will be to your children's mindset. Every thread I've read where the BH kept the house healed much quicker. That she is not fighting about this shouts limerance. This link has a great summary firt page http://joebeam.com/blog/limerence. This article offers insight into anger, that it is healthy and how to channel it https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-experience/201410/the-simple-truth-about-anger


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> One way to slip in the strong possibilty of an OM is to respond to questions about how it is going: So far the only real sticking point is about her wanting a very short time before introducing other men to our children.
> 
> Overnights with children in the home, is her family ok with that?
> 
> Finally, your in your children's home. Wow, you have no idea how important that is and will be to your children's mindset. Every thread I've read where the BH kept the house healed much quicker. That she is not fighting about this shouts limerance. This link has a great summary firt page http://joebeam.com/blog/limerence. This article offers insight into anger, that it is healthy and how to channel it https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-experience/201410/the-simple-truth-about-anger


Hey JohnA, she would not be able to afford the house so that is part of why no fighting but I did expect her to ask for more equity so we had to sell it because I didn't think she would like me keeping it but he and the mediator both agreed my offer was fair and it would be much healthier for the Children to retain some stability.

Her family would go with whatever she feels best they will not challenge her or I very much doubt they would. What is even weirder is she is a product of divorce and told me initially to not go introducing multiple partners to the Children because her Dad did that and it was hurtful but then goes and thinks 3 months is a reasonable time frame. 

Thanks for the links.

Feeling pretty good again today, have IC and a workout to look forward to later. :smile2:


----------



## Steve1000

MovingForward said:


> Just reread this, I was definitely in shock at the time :smile2: I broke down really bad after this many times over.
> 
> Just like to reread and see how I was to how I am doing, sometimes I don't even recognize myself in my writing and its like reading a strangers story.


It's good to see that you're still handling this as well as could be expected. Yes, the shock is lifting. Be prepared though that you'll still have some difficult days to get through after you thought that they were all behind you.


----------



## MovingForward

Steve1000 said:


> It's good to see that you're still handling this as well as could be expected. Yes, the shock is lifting. Be prepared though that you'll still have some difficult days to get through after you thought that they were all behind you.


I am not sure I have been handling it well, would not advise anyone to do as I have 

Just keep trying to take a day at a time and try to stop looking too far into the future, sometimes I succeed and often I fail.


----------



## MovingForward

Another Ok/Good Night and feeling good again today.

Went to IC last night which was helpful, he basically told me to keep with a '180' although didn't use the same terminology.

We went through the stages of grief and I have been revolving through all of them, it is crazy how accurate this stuff is and he also mentioned he thinks I am depressed but I am not sure I agree I just told him I have a little brain fog and my concentration has been suffering but think it is more to do with having so much going on at one time.

He asked what my feelings were to my STBXW and I told him anger, frustration and disappointment so we went over why and he asked if I still loved her which shocked me a little and I had to tell him yes he said that is normal and OK as there is a lot of History. 

So conclusion to session was we book more sessions and continue to work on detaching and cementing the mindset it is me and the Children and just focus on that part and not worry about anything she does anymore even though that will be hard to start.

I am hoping I don't suffer many more setbacks.


----------



## MovingForward

Another day down, she has been on my mind on occasion but not felt depressed, desperate or anxious just sad at the situation and how it has all happened.

Hopefully a fun filled weekend awaits me.


----------



## JohnA

You are doing well. I say this because you are taking the necessary steps to build a successful post divorce life, despite the emotional desire to fix the marriage. You are one of the rare one's. To often the BS freezes, allowing the WS who has an exit plan to take advantage of them. 
There are bumps ahead. For example everyone needs to be friends for the health of the children. Answer, let's start az allies first. Let's agree our childen have one mother and on father. Others can be a mentor, uncle, teacher but not a parent and build from there. 

Read the fiest 15 pages of this thread, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/320049-i-dont-know-what-would-right-title.html. He hated acting quickly to protect himself, later he was grateful he done so. So keep pushing, especially on the spousal support. That is meant to help BOTH spouses till both recover. Getting your nails down, gym membership, trips are not necessary for day to day living. If she includes them fight it and include your own.


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## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> You are doing well. I say this because you are taking the necessary steps to build a successful post divorce life, despite the emotional desire to fix the marriage. You are one of the rare one's. To often the BS freezes, allowing the WS who has an exit plan to take advantage of them.
> There are bumps ahead. For example everyone needs to be friends for the health of the children. Answer, let's start az allies first. Let's agree our childen have one mother and on father. Others can be a mentor, uncle, teacher but not a parent and build from there.
> 
> Read the fiest 15 pages of this thread, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/320049-i-dont-know-what-would-right-title.html. He hated acting quickly to protect himself, later he was grateful he done so. So keep pushing, especially on the spousal support. That is meant to help BOTH spouses till both recover. Getting your nails down, gym membership, trips are not necessary for day to day living. If she includes them fight it and include your own.


I am doing what is necessary I strongly feel a bad divorce settlement will drastically lengthen the healing and moving on process, I do still have feelings and wish it did not have to be like this but there is not option for me they were all taken away. I am Dreading the mediation tomorrow there is so much stress involved it makes my stomach knot from anxiety and makes it hard to sleep well, I was awake this morning at 3am already dreading it.


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## MovingForward

Ok, Wish me Luck for today's mediation!!!! If anyone can send some good thoughts over it would be appreciated.


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## FeministInPink

Good luck, MF. Stay cool and calm. Don't get emotional. It will just go downhill from there an she will get the upper hand.


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## MovingForward

Update from today Mediation.

We are almost done and he mentioned at most 2 more hours of Mediation and he will be ready to draft the settlement agreement. 

It was as pleasant and civil as it could, Mediator brought up Spousal Maintenance and there was Zero option of not paying and the average time frame awarded in our state for time of marriage is 4-6 years and she agreed to 2 years and then a 50% reduction for a third and final year, the amount she requested was pretty reasonable compared to what it could have been due to the huge difference in earnings but obviously still stings a lot but I felt like it was a good enough deal to not worth the risk, Child support came out slightly higher than expected but can be changed and it is done in a way where she picks up extra days or school drops offs and picks ups so to lessen the effect of my work schedule so works out well for me. 

So we have agreed on 50/50, Child support done including start date, life insurance, Spousal support done, medical done, assets done only thing left is we review it all and tie up any lose ends. It seems she is very eager to get this over with and has no interest in arguing or fighting at all which I am grateful for obviously but also hurt in a weird way that she is so eager to get out the marriage that she will take less just to get it over with.

For some reason I became overwhelmed with emotions after I left and the reality hit that I am getting divorced and a lot of the upset, fear, pain all came back and I left and pretty much cried all the way back to work.


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## FeministInPink

MF, I'm glad that the mediation worked out in a way that you feel is fair. The emotional upheaval is rough, but absolutely normal. Don't beat yourself up over it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> MF, I'm glad that the mediation worked out in a way that you feel is fair. The emotional upheaval is rough, but absolutely normal. Don't beat yourself up over it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I guess even when you think you are OK you are not and something happens and all the suppressed emotions come back to the surface again. I really thought I was getting over and accepting it but I guess I was wrong.

I should be appreciative that it is low conflict, she is reasonable and fair and its fast moving but it still something I guess I am not ready for and feel like I could have a breakdown once its officially over legally, I have IC booked one a week for next 3 weeks and if he had more availability I would try for more, my body is riddled with dread and anxiety again.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Update from today Mediation.
> 
> We are almost done and he mentioned at most 2 more hours of Mediation and he will be ready to draft the settlement agreement.
> 
> It was as pleasant and civil as it could, Mediator brought up Spousal Maintenance and there was Zero option of not paying and the average time frame awarded in our state for time of marriage is 4-6 years and she agreed to 2 years and then a 50% reduction for a third and final year, the amount she requested was pretty reasonable compared to what it could have been due to the huge difference in earnings but obviously still stings a lot but I felt like it was a good enough deal to not worth the risk, Child support came out slightly higher than expected but can be changed and it is done in a way where she picks up extra days or school drops offs and picks ups so to lessen the effect of my work schedule so works out well for me.
> 
> So we have agreed on 50/50, Child support done including start date, life insurance, Spousal support done, medical done, assets done only thing left is we review it all and tie up any lose ends. *It seems she is very eager to get this over with and has no interest in arguing or fighting at all which I am grateful for obviously but also hurt in a weird way that she is so eager to get out the marriage that she will take less just to get it over with.*
> 
> She's eager to start life with her other man. Big advantage for you here. Not that unusual. Plus in the back of her mind she probably is playing nice to you in case it doesn't work out and she has a plan B in place. The "lets be friends" comes next. That will be to help her guilt. Don't go there just pretend until the papers are signed. Then go your own way. There's nothing left in that for you.
> 
> For some reason I became overwhelmed with emotions after I left and the reality hit that I am getting divorced and a lot of the upset, fear, pain all came back and I left and pretty much cried all the way back to work.


It will sting. That's normal but when you see this play out you will be able to move on better.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> It will sting. That's normal but when you see this play out you will be able to move on better.


Not sure if the pain will all come back again if another man comes in the picture shortly, I don't think I am mentally ready for that Scenario.


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## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Not sure if the pain will all come back again if another man comes in the picture shortly, I don't think I am mentally ready for that Scenario.


It seems insurmountable now but it isn't. You will get through this. You have the tools of how the 180/no contact works. Use them. They were designed for this purpose. It's not going to be easy but if you apply it you'll come through this better than if you don't.

You're better prepared than most. You can vent away here.

There is no magic that can make this go away. You're doing well. Keep at it.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Not sure if the pain will all come back again if another man comes in the picture shortly, I don't think I am mentally ready for that Scenario.


You give defiant people what they want, for it rarely ever turns out as they expected.

I know you love your kids but would you want your kids growing up in a soulless, loveless M?

She is telling you who she really is, BELIEVE her. If she wanted you, trust me.... she would be letting

you know. Can there be an R after the D, five years later..... who knows?

But as for now, full steam ahead with the D. Even if she came crawling back, the D must be done.

The former M is DEAD...... KILL it! No M downfall is 100 / 0 nor is it exactly 50 / 50.

It's somewhere in between those two. OWN your POS tendencies.... we ALL have them, we're human.

Better those, improve yourself, find out why you were the you in the M. Will she.......?....

That is NOT your problem anymore. Be a great dad.... be a solid role model.

One of the links you were sent was Gridcom's.... he was in limbo for..... six months and you

could see how it took a toll on him. We vet posters know your pain, we were there.

Pain is NOT prejudice by any means. The moment you take your "balls" back.... I promise you

she will have more respect for you.... and find you attractive. 

My parents D in '66 (30 days LOL yep!) and re-M in '68. It can happen.... their punishment?

They had Chuck71 a few years later :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Chuck71 said:


> You give defiant people what they want, for it rarely ever turns out as they expected.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you love your kids but would you want your kids growing up in a soulless, loveless M?
> 
> 
> 
> She is telling you who she really is, BELIEVE her. If she wanted you, trust me.... she would be letting
> 
> 
> 
> you know. Can there be an R after the D, five years later..... who knows?
> 
> 
> 
> But as for now, full steam ahead with the D. Even if she came crawling back, the D must be done.
> 
> 
> 
> The former M is DEAD...... KILL it! No M downfall is 100 / 0 nor is it exactly 50 / 50.
> 
> 
> 
> It's somewhere in between those two. OWN your POS tendencies.... we ALL have them, we're human.
> 
> 
> 
> Better those, improve yourself, find out why you were the you in the M. Will she.......?....
> 
> 
> 
> That is NOT your problem anymore. Be a great dad.... be a solid role model.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the links you were sent was Gridcom's.... he was in limbo for..... six months and you
> 
> 
> 
> could see how it took a toll on him. We vet posters know your pain, we were there.
> 
> 
> 
> Pain is NOT prejudice by any means. The moment you take your "balls" back.... I promise you
> 
> 
> 
> she will have more respect for you.... and find you attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> My parents D in '66 (30 days LOL yep!) and re-M in '68. It can happen.... their punishment?
> 
> 
> 
> They had Chuck71 a few years later :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:




In fairness, they remarried after the Summer Of Love. Maybe that had something to do with it.

[edit Google 1967 summer of love you young pups]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnA

Keeping your cool and the divorce low conflict is part of doing it right. Stay focused on rebuilding your life. You have gotten what you need to heal much quicker. Understand going nuclear would have only made things worse. Keep game planning. 

For example: what are you going to say when you get "we are still friends". Both before and after the divorce is final?

When will she move out?


----------



## turnera

It's going to take you two or three years to get past her. Are you seeing a therapist?


----------



## MovingForward

turnera said:


> It's going to take you two or three years to get past her. Are you seeing a therapist?


I am but I was hoping it would be a quicker healing process than that, I really don't want to be getting over her still while she has already moved on and is settled in a new marriage or relationship.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Keeping your cool and the divorce low conflict is part of doing it right. Stay focused on rebuilding your life. You have gotten what you need to heal much quicker. Understand going nuclear would have only made things worse. Keep game planning.
> 
> For example: what are you going to say when you get "we are still friends". Both before and after the divorce is final?
> 
> When will she move out?


John, she is already looking for somewhere to move so i would imagine 60-90 days.

I don't think I am healing, I thought I was but yesterday for some reason just stripped it all away again.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> John, she is already looking for somewhere to move so i would imagine 60-90 days.
> 
> I don't think I am healing, I thought I was but yesterday for some reason just stripped it all away again.


YOUR healing depends upon what YOU do.

If your healing is dependent upon what she does / how she suffers... you are in for 

a long road of misery. MF...... what are your hobbies? Or hobbies before you were M?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> I know you love your kids but would you want your kids growing up in a soulless, loveless M? - *This has only been for last 12-18 months and honestly she hid it really well most of the time which led me to believe things might be OK, we had a huge argument last Christmas which was a build up of frustration and bad communication and it nose dived from there. *
> 
> She is telling you who she really is, BELIEVE her. If she wanted you, trust me.... she would be letting -* I know this but I am having a really hard time accepting it, In my mind I know but my heart is wanting something different.
> *
> you know. Can there be an R after the D, five years later..... who knows?
> But as for now, full steam ahead with the D. Even if she came crawling back, the D must be done.
> The former M is DEAD...... KILL it! No M downfall is 100 / 0 nor is it exactly 50 / 50. - *I know the former marriage is dead I accepted that and it needed to die but I had hoped we could start a new one, we did have a lot of fun and happy times for the a big number of years, she will not come crawling back she is as stubborn as they come and I believe she seems very relieved to be getting this over with she seems to have Zero concerns or doubt at all, I wish I could say the same for myself .*
> 
> It's somewhere in between those two. OWN your POS tendencies.... we ALL have them, we're human.
> Better those, improve yourself, find out why you were the you in the M. Will she.......?.... -
> That is NOT your problem anymore. Be a great dad.... be a solid role model. *I have been reading and working with IC and getting myself back out socially, I admit I had a lot of issues and feel good working on them and becoming myself again, I had made her and the kids my entire world, had no social life outside of that and did not handle emotions well, stress showed anger and frustration, I was too uptight, too anxious and not much fun at all for a period of time, by having nothing outside of her I was probably too needy and needed too much attention and reassurance constantly, I need physical touch to feel loved but also HD so there were times looking back where I pressured too much for Sex to make myself feel loved. There were probably a bunch more things I messed up but the list keeps growing and evolving but I will not be making any past mistakes again. *
> 
> One of the links you were sent was Gridcom's.... he was in limbo for..... six months and you
> could see how it took a toll on him. We vet posters know your pain, we were there. - *The pain is real that is for sure and i am sure it has taken a huge toll on my body, I have been struggling with brain fog and concentration for months.
> *
> Pain is NOT prejudice by any means. The moment you take your "balls" back.... I promise you
> she will have more respect for you.... and find you attractive. *I did make all the classic mistakes, begging, pleading etc. She always just reiterated that she liked hanging out with me, liked having sex with me, found me attractive but couldn't trust me with her heart and didn't want to walk on eggs shells anymore or feel like she wasn't good enough, she even told the mediator when he asked if reconciliation is an option that she would like it to be but doesn't think I can change. I want her back but I don't at the same timeit is confusing as hell, I don't trust her at all, she has messed my head up so badly over these last few months I don't know what is going on half the time.
> *


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> John, she is already looking for somewhere to move so i would imagine 60-90 days.
> 
> I don't think I am healing, I thought I was but yesterday for some reason just stripped it all away again.


The healing process is not linear. 










Keep working at it. Keep doing the 180, keep doing IC, keep reading the books. And forgive yourself when you have moments like this. You have to forgive yourself, because moments like yesterday are NORMAL in the healing process. Forgive yourself, love yourself, and encourage yourself to move forward. 

You are LITERALLY reprogramming your brain. It takes time to create the new synapse paths, and the neurons want to take the old paths... it takes a while to get them to regularly use the new paths. Be patient with yourself.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> YOUR healing depends upon what YOU do.
> 
> If your healing is dependent upon what she does / how she suffers... you are in for
> 
> a long road of misery. MF...... what are your hobbies? Or hobbies before you were M?


I know, hoping IC helps a lot with this, It just the worst feeling ever.

I used to Box and Kick Box back in my home country, would run a lot also as part of an informal running club and traveled as often as I could with Friends and Wife in early days of marriage prior to Children, we also used to go dancing a lot at Clubs and have a lot of Social Gatherings with Friends.

I did box and Kickbox in the USA but once my first child was born it was tough to get out as work took priority and we needed the money plus hard to workout on no sleep :grin2: I picked it back up for a short period maybe 6 months or so but quit all together once my second child was born and gave no time for myself and ended up with no hobbies and worked out in my garage a couple days a week when I had time. 

The last couple months I have been starting new things, late last year I bought myself a rifle and went hunting, I have bought a Bow and getting into Archery with the goal of bow hunting this summer, I started mountain biking at Christmas and a couple weeks ago I started at a group workout facility with some power-lifting, weightlifting and Circuit training which is a lot of fun. All new activities and keep me sane at the time but when I am home again reality always seems to find a way of sinking back in and bringing me back down.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> The healing process is not linear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep working at it. Keep doing the 180, keep doing IC, keep reading the books. And forgive yourself when you have moments like this. You have to forgive yourself, because moments like yesterday are NORMAL in the healing process. Forgive yourself, love yourself, and encourage yourself to move forward.
> 
> You are LITERALLY reprogramming your brain. It takes time to create the new synapse paths, and the neurons want to take the old paths... it takes a while to get them to regularly use the new paths. Be patient with yourself.


I wish someone would put me in a coma while my brain reprogrammed and let me wake back up with none of this hurt.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> *I am not planning on anymore Children LOL so hopefully no more punishment.*


In other words you based your life and emotions upon her. That's a lot of rocks to carry.

You are scared because you pretty much lost your identity.

Awareness by DeMello Awareness - by Anthony de Mello

You will learn about #1, #2, and #3s. Critical.

If you improve yourself........... A-She sees the man she fell in love with and regains attraction,

B-She moves on with her life but MF improved himself for MF 2.0, with whomever he seeks in

the future. See... it's a win-win. There are so many things in life we can't accept or understand.

But that is not healthy. Some things we have to accept even though we do not understand it.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I know, hoping IC helps a lot with this, It just the worst feeling ever.
> 
> I used to Box and Kick Box back in my home country, would run a lot also as part of an informal running club and traveled as often as I could with Friends and Wife in early days of marriage prior to Children, we also used to go dancing a lot at Clubs and have a lot of Social Gatherings with Friends.
> 
> I did box and Kickbox in the USA but once my first child was born it was tough to get out as work took priority and we needed the money plus hard to workout on no sleep :grin2: I picked it back up for a short period maybe 6 months or so but quit all together once my second child was born and gave no time for myself and ended up with no hobbies and worked out in my garage a couple days a week when I had time.
> 
> The last couple months I have been starting new things, late last year I bought myself a rifle and went hunting, I have bought a Bow and getting into Archery with the goal of bow hunting this summer, I started mountain biking at Christmas and a couple weeks ago I started at a group workout facility with some power-lifting, weightlifting and Circuit training which is a lot of fun. All new activities and keep me sane at the time but when I am home again reality always seems to find a way of sinking back in and bringing me back down.


What music do you like?

MF..... what was your relationship like growing up with your mom? Reason I ask this.....

many men M a woman that reminds him of his mother. I did. Nothing wrong with that.

As long as you do not look at your W as "your mother." My XW reminded me of my mom but I never

saw her as my mother. On the other hand... XW had rocky childhood with her father. She ended up

seeing me as her father figure.... and she was seven years older than I. I lost a great deal 

of respect for her "as a W" after that. Would that alone had killed our M in my eyes..... no.

Other things contributed more. But if I had to name a Top 10 on why I gave up on our M,

the father thing would be in it.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> In other words you based your life and emotions upon her. That's a lot of rocks to carry. *I did and never really thought about it until it came crashing down and I realized that I didn't have anyone or anything anymore including my own identity, she is not blameless she got in the same mindset except she only focused on the Children, we both neglected the relationship and social lives, she got out again though and by not working made a large group of Moms friends in the area and from that group made many more friends and became more like herself again to everyone but me who she was still a little hostile towards since 'you can't act like or do that or buy that' your a dad now or its not best for the family since we need xyz etc. I should have snapped out of it, been who i wanted to be, had my own social life and been more involved in hers as she was always dragging me to social events with all her new friends but I think I was too insecure to really allow myself to engage, maybe lack of identity made it hard for me to connect with people as I didn't feel like i had anything to offer anyone since I didn't do anything but work, pay bills or look after kids and occasionally complain about it.*
> 
> You are scared because you pretty much lost your identity. *You are 100% correct I am relearning who I am currently, I got so lost in trying to be someones husband and dad that I lost who I was, I wanted to do the right thing, bring financial security to my family, have a nice home, go on nice vacations, by all the latest material things for the children and wife but none of it mattered all they wanted was me around and to be happy.*
> 
> Awareness by DeMello Awareness - by Anthony de Mello
> 
> You will learn about #1, #2, and #3s. Critical. *I will order this, my collection is building soon I will be able to have my own self help library and start a support group in my spare room :grin2:*
> 
> If you improve yourself........... A-She sees the man she fell in love with and regains attraction,
> 
> B-She moves on with her life but MF improved himself for MF 2.0, with whomever he seeks in
> 
> the future. See... it's a win-win. There are so many things in life we can't accept or understand.
> 
> But that is not healthy. Some things we have to accept even though we do not understand it.
> 
> *Improving myself is number 1 priority, i was not happy in who I was and I dont want my children to see that person either, there are so many things I want to do, places to explore and things i want to experience but i still wish I could experience them as a family still and wish It had not taken divorce to wake me back up, I don't have any hope of her seeing any change in me but I hope to get myself to a place where I am confident in myself and who I am, have more friends and an active social life and able to trust enough to be in a relationship again currently outside of having someone around to have sex with I could not allow myself to open up to anyone and I know that is not a healthy mindset or fair to do that to someone *


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> What music do you like?
> 
> MF..... what was your relationship like growing up with your mom? Reason I ask this.....
> 
> many men M a woman that reminds him of his mother. I did. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> As long as you do not look at your W as "your mother." My XW reminded me of my mom but I never
> 
> saw her as my mother. On the other hand... XW had rocky childhood with her father. She ended up
> 
> seeing me as her father figure.... and she was seven years older than I. I lost a great deal
> 
> of respect for her "as a W" after that. Would that alone had killed our M in my eyes..... no.
> 
> Other things contributed more. But if I had to name a Top 10 on why I gave up on our M,
> 
> the father thing would be in it.


Music is something I enjoy and I like most genres but I am not 100% in or passionate about any, I don't really go to concerts which is something my STBXW loved she is very passionate about music and I supported it but always thought better she went with friends as she would enjoy it more with people who are equally passionate about it.

My Mother grew up in poverty with parents who abused Drugs and Alcohol and I don't feel she was really ever shown any love from them and ended up being her fathers care take before she was a teenager as her mother passed from an overdose. She is the strongest personal mentally I know, very to the point, showed zero emotion and took zero crap and had no sympathy for anything *"you fell over, get up and go cry somewhere else'* *'you dont feel well, go to your room sitting here complaining is not going to make you feel better'* etc. she loved us and will always help with any crisis and I know if I ever need anything she will help but emotionally she did not show a lot. My STBXW is opposite on most things very emotional, expressive, very nurturing and mentally falls apart when thing's don't go right but she also has some similar traits such as she will not accept any crap and is not afraid to share her opinion on anything to anyone no matter how many people she offends.

I read a book recently called *Hold me Tight* and it basically summarized quite a few things which happened in our marriage to get to where we are mostly down to *Both* of us not tuning into the others needs.


----------



## Chuck71

Improving myself is number 1 priority, i was not happy in who I was and I dont want my children to see that person either, there are so many things I want to do, places to explore and things i want to experience but i still wish I could experience them as a family still and wish It had not taken divorce to wake me back up, I don't have any hope of her seeing any change in me but I hope to get myself to a place where I am confident in myself and who I am, have more friends and an active social life and able to trust enough to be in a relationship again currently outside of having someone around to have sex with I could not allow myself to open up to anyone and I know that is not a healthy mindset or fair to do that to someone****************************************

You improve for you.... your kids......... your future female love interest. NOT for your W.

Lil secret.... when you start improving yourself, you bet your arse she will notice. Women have a sixth

sense about things. How many guy friends do you know who got D, were waiting for it to

be final, or a LTR break-up and he goes out with a female. Could be a romance date or even

a friend date. The guy's W/STBXW/x-gf doesn't even have to "see it" to "know about it."

Your W will notice, I promise. But the reason you are... is key. Am I saying it will lead her back

to you? NO NO NO What I am saying is..... it happens frequently.

Just remember..... the demise of your M was NOT 100% you. It takes two to M and two to kill it.

You are owning your POS tendencies.... it's up to her and her alone to own hers.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Music is something I enjoy and I like most genres but I am not 100% in or passionate about any, I don't really go to concerts which is something my STBXW loved she is very passionate about music and I supported it but always thought better she went with friends as she would enjoy it more with people who are equally passionate about it.
> 
> My Mother grew up in poverty with parents who abused Drugs and Alcohol and I don't feel she was really ever shown any love from them and ended up being her fathers care take before she was a teenager as her mother passed from an overdose. She is the strongest personal mentally I know, very to the point, showed zero emotion and took zero crap and had no sympathy for anything *"you fell over, get up and go cry somewhere else'* *'you dont feel well, go to your room sitting here complaining is not going to make you feel better'* etc. she loved us and will always help with any crisis and I know if I ever need anything she will help but emotionally she did not show a lot. My STBXW is opposite on most things very emotional, expressive, very nurturing and mentally falls apart when thing's don't go right but she also has some similar traits such as she will not accept any crap and is not afraid to share her opinion on anything to anyone no matter how many people she offends.
> 
> I read a book recently called *Hold me Tight* and it basically summarized quite a few things which happened in our marriage to get to where we are mostly down to *Both* of us not tuning into the others needs.


Your mom's shoes would be VERY hard for any human to fill. Your W never had a chance.

That is where she lost some respect for you. But this happens OFTEN.

What about your dad? Can I ask where you grew up?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Improving myself is number 1 priority, i was not happy in who I was and I dont want my children to see that person either, there are so many things I want to do, places to explore and things i want to experience but i still wish I could experience them as a family still and wish It had not taken divorce to wake me back up, I don't have any hope of her seeing any change in me but I hope to get myself to a place where I am confident in myself and who I am, have more friends and an active social life and able to trust enough to be in a relationship again currently outside of having someone around to have sex with I could not allow myself to open up to anyone and I know that is not a healthy mindset or fair to do that to someone****************************************
> 
> You improve for you.... your kids......... your future female love interest. NOT for your W.
> 
> Lil secret.... when you start improving yourself, you bet your arse she will notice. Women have a sixth
> 
> sense about things. How many guy friends do you know who got D, were waiting for it to
> 
> be final, or a LTR break-up and he goes out with a female. Could be a romance date or even
> 
> a friend date. The guy's W/STBXW/x-gf doesn't even have to "see it" to "know about it."
> 
> Your W will notice, I promise. But the reason you are... is key. Am I saying it will lead her back
> 
> to you? NO NO NO What I am saying is..... it happens frequently.
> 
> Just remember..... the demise of your M was NOT 100% you. It takes two to M and two to kill it.
> 
> You are owning your POS tendencies.... it's up to her and her alone to own hers.


This may change but the way I currently feel is if I had had pulled myself together I could have avoided this situation entirely and I think I could have lived with her POS tendencies and been happy but not sure if that is fear and desperation talking. 

I really appreciate you talking time out your day to offer some feedback and support, I don't know how I could make it through without this forum to vent on and talk about my experience.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Your mom's shoes would be VERY hard for any human to fill. Your W never had a chance.
> 
> That is where she lost some respect for you. But this happens OFTEN.
> 
> What about your dad? Can I ask where you grew up?


I grew up in the UK.

My Dad spent a lot of time with us as kids doing a bunch of different activities and took a full interest in anything we did but he and my mother had very similar mindsets on dealing with issues by just getting over it, he was a strong individual mentally and physically and was scared of nothing and no one so when I had my ass kicked as a child(Which was a weekly occurrence for quite some time) and come home crying his solution was to tell me to go back and try again until I win, I just stopped telling them after a while since I never had the confidence to fight back at that age. He signed me up for Boxing though which was the best thing to happen for me as it was a passion of mine for a long time and really helped build my confidence and self esteem and allowed us to spend a ton of time together since he became at coach at the club, did all my running with me(he was very competitive so pushed me really hard) and even corned me in some of my fights.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> This may change but the way I currently feel is *if I had had pulled myself together I could have avoided this situation entirely and I think I could have lived with her POS tendencies and been happy but not sure if that is fear and desperation talking. *
> 
> I really appreciate you talking time out your day to offer some feedback and support, I don't know how I could make it through without this forum to vent on and talk about my experience.


You seem to be trying to convince yourself of something.



Either she or you have yourself blameshifted everything to it being YOUR fault.

I have no clue about your M except for the fact it was NOT 100 / 0 all on you. I would say that to any

other poster here, male or female. 

Glad to help..... I was a newby here once and went through the things you are.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I grew up in the UK.
> 
> My Dad spent a lot of time with us as kids doing a bunch of different activities and took a full interest in anything we did but he and my mother had very similar mindsets on dealing with issues by just getting over it, he was a strong individual mentally and physically and was scared of nothing and no one so when I had my ass kicked as a child(Which was a weekly occurrence for quite some time) and come home crying his solution was to tell me to go back and try again until I win, I just stopped telling them after a while since I never had the confidence to fight back at that age. He signed me up for Boxing though which was the best thing to happen for me as it was a passion of mine for a long time and really helped build my confidence and self esteem and allowed us to spend a ton of time together since he became at coach at the club, did all my running with me(he was very competitive so pushed me really hard) and even corned me in some of my fights.


You had strict but caring parents. You are quite lucky. My mom was a great caregiver but

not a good teacher. Pop was the opposite. Was still 100 / 100. Can't complain.

Your parents and my parent's mode of raising children is not well liked anymore. I agree it was

very unemotional as I grew up. The "John Wayne" type. I'm not saying it would have been 

any better sitting around a campfire in our underwear talking about how we feel..... LOL

But somewhere in the middle. That middle is heavily debated. But your parents and mine grew

up in post-WW2. Our grandparents in the Great Depression and WW2. They lived through crap we have no

clue of. What was your Ws relationship like with her parents?

Edit.... I will never forget the summer morning in 1993, pop and I were into it a bit. He and mom were at the houseboat and he called. Was brief... at the end he said ILY and hung up. I literally about crapped my pants.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> You had strict but caring parents. You are quite lucky. My mom was a great caregiver but
> 
> not a good teacher. Pop was the opposite. Was still 100 / 100. Can't complain.
> 
> Your parents and my parent's mode of raising children is not well liked anymore. I agree it was
> 
> very unemotional as I grew up. The "John Wayne" type. I'm not saying it would have been
> 
> any better sitting around a campfire in our underwear talking about how we feel..... LOL
> 
> But somewhere in the middle. That middle is heavily debated. But your parents and mine grew
> 
> up in post-WW2. Our grandparents in the Great Depression and WW2. They lived through crap we have no
> 
> clue of. What was your Ws relationship like with her parents?
> 
> Edit.... I will never forget the summer morning in 1993, pop and I were into it a bit. He and mom were at the houseboat and he called. Was brief... at the end he said ILY and hung up. I literally about crapped my pants.


Her Parents Divorced when she was 5 and her Mother remarried and she grew up with multiple step siblings in the same house. From what I have heard she seemed to be able to get away with anything, do no wrong and her Mother to this day will still back her and her siblings 100% on anything regardless of whether they are right *'That's just the way she is'* etc.

Her Dad she thinks she has an amazing relationship with and he is the greatest but he has never visited in any location we have lived in the last 12 years and not through lack of finance or free time as he has an abundance of both, he never calls and when she visits she has to go to him there is no half way or middle ground.

You are so right about how different we all grew up compared to the previous generation, my Grandparents grew up on food rations and spend many nights in either bomb shelters or on farms away from there parents who were either fighting or working the munitions factories, my grandfather never met his Dad as he was killed fighting in World War 2 and was called up and left when his mother was pregnant with him, he had a picture someone had taken of him and some other kids standing and smiling on top of a pile of rubble which used to be a building before being bombed the night before.


----------



## Chuck71

TheTruthHurts said:


> In fairness, they remarried after the Summer Of Love. Maybe that had something to do with it.
> 
> [edit Google 1967 summer of love you young pups]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well..... LOL.... they D after 30 days because pop stole mom's car and drove it across three states to

pick up his ex gf. I kid you not LOL Then mom moved to CA to get away from pop and was in 

line to be on The Dating Game. Pop found out where mom was and..... yeah. She was homesick too.

Yeah it WAS the 60s LMAO!!! I sometimes wonder how things would have changed if mom

migrated up to San Fran's Hauge-Ashberry Park a few years later. I could have had a cool name

like Moon Beam or Wavy Gravy.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> You seem to be trying to convince yourself of something.
> 
> 
> 
> Either she or you have yourself blameshifted everything to it being YOUR fault.
> 
> I have no clue about your M except for the fact it was NOT 100 / 0 all on you. I would say that to any
> 
> other poster here, male or female.
> 
> Glad to help..... I was a newby here once and went through the things you are.


It's just a confusing time, I can see some things she brought up in the past that I did not take serious, I have realized a lot of issues in myself which was hindering our relationship and my happiness I am just understanding a lot of my errors and how they impacted everything and its a hard pill to swallow thinking this could have been preventable and i didn't need to be in this situation. Pretty much all the grievances she had with me that got us to this point are accurate I have finally started to see them clearer, started to work on them and some of them have been much easier than expected and others are going to take more time but progress is being made.

I just never understood how she can be so carefree about it all like it doesn't even matter or I am worth so little.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Her Parents Divorced when she was 5 and her Mother remarried and she grew up with multiple step siblings in the same house. From what I have heard she seemed to be able to get away with anything, do no wrong and her Mother to this day will still back her and her siblings 100% on anything regardless of whether they are right *'That's just the way she is'* etc.
> 
> Her Dad she thinks she has an amazing relationship with and he is the greatest but he has never visited in any location we have lived in the last 12 years and not through lack of finance or free time as he has an abundance of both, he never calls and when she visits she has to go to him there is no half way or middle ground.
> 
> You are so right about how different we all grew up compared to the previous generation, my Grandparents grew up on food rations and spend many nights in either bomb shelters or on farms away from there parents who were either fighting or working the munitions factories, my grandfather never met his Dad as he was killed fighting in World War 2 and was called up and left when his mother was pregnant with him, he had a picture someone had taken of him and some other kids standing and smiling on top of a pile of rubble which used to be a building before being bombed the night before.


Entitled princess with mom. But what was the deal with her dad? Great childhood but her dad

will not see her, spent time with her unless she goes to him? Trust me... when parents see their kids 

have kids.... you almost have to get a freaking Order of Protection to have them stay away

so the parents can actually have quality time together and with their kids. Was your W closer to

her mom than dad during her childhood and before you met her?

My granddad served in Europe. He was caught behind enemy lines and laid low in a bunker.

He was MIA for a month. Pop saved the stuff the Army sent home to his mom.

He found no food but a huge cache of fine wine and liquor. He was not a drinker.... but when he 

returned home... he brought a vice. Pop said he would get drunk for weeks on end with his

brother at the car lot he owned. He never was a mean drinker, he just drank too much.

If you overpaid him a dime he would walk to your house to return the dime.

I wanted to join when I was in HS but a botched surgery kept me from that.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> It's just a confusing time, I can see some things she brought up in the past that I did not take serious, I have realized a lot of issues in myself which was hindering our relationship and my happiness I am just understanding a lot of my errors and how they impacted everything and its a hard pill to swallow thinking this could have been preventable and i didn't need to be in this situation. Pretty much all the grievances she had with me that got us to this point are accurate I have finally started to see them clearer, started to work on them and some of them have been much easier than expected and others are going to take more time but progress is being made.
> 
> I just never understood how she can be so carefree about it all like it doesn't even matter or I am worth so little.


It is VERY healthy to own your POS tendencies. Keep in mind, EVERY ONE has them.

Better you, better tomorrow. How did she react when you brought up your complaints?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Entitled princess with mom. But what was the deal with her dad? Great childhood but her dad
> 
> will not see her, spent time with her unless she goes to him? Trust me... when parents see their kids
> have kids.... you almost have to get a freaking Order of Protection to have them stay away
> 
> so the parents can actually have quality time together and with their kids. Was your W closer to
> 
> her mom than dad during her childhood and before you met her? *Yes much Closer to her Mom they talk constantly and her mom has visited frequently and always keeps in touch with Grandkids and always sends birthday,anniversary, valentines, Christmas, Easter cards/presents etc to all of us. He is a nice enough guy but not fond of me because 'I took his daughter and grand kids away' he just does his own thing and is selfish with his time if he is home come see him but he will not cancel anything or make time for anyone if it takes away from something else he wants to do.
> *
> My granddad served in Europe. He was caught behind enemy lines and laid low in a bunker.
> 
> He was MIA for a month. Pop saved the stuff the Army sent home to his mom.
> 
> He found no food but a huge cache of fine wine and liquor. He was not a drinker.... but when he
> 
> returned home... he brought a vice. Pop said he would get drunk for weeks on end with his
> 
> brother at the car lot he owned. He never was a mean drinker, he just drank too much. - *I always hear such great and crazy stories about peoples times serving and how tough and resilient they all were, puts things into perspective, I am over here crying and whining because a woman doesn't love me and people like your grandad spend weeks alone in energy territory with no way of knowing if they were ever gonna make it home and if anyone would ever find out what happened to them*
> 
> If you overpaid him a dime he would walk to your house to return the dime.
> 
> I wanted to join when I was in HS but a botched surgery kept me from that. *I tried to Join also but was not medically accepted due to a skin condition, I was crushed at the time but things worked out for the best........I think.........*


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> It is VERY healthy to own your POS tendencies. Keep in mind, EVERY ONE has them.
> 
> Better you, better tomorrow. How did she react when you brought up your complaints?


I have not really had a chance to bring up my complaints, this has all been very one sided.

This has felt like a whirlwind process, I brought up a concern about has she cheated(first time of our marriage) she tells me no BUT I AM NOT HAPPY AND WANT A DIVORCE. I got into panic mode like I mentioned earlier and then she has come in and out emotionally sometimes we are 'working' on it and others times we are officially done and no chance and it went back and forth constantly, she would not give MC a shot and tells me I have hurt her too badly and she can't forgive me since I am never there for her emotionally and she can't trust me to be there for her anymore so she will never open up to me again.

I should have on day one just filed and been done with it, then if she showed serious commitment to want to work it out then I would have gone MC together and given it a chance... but....... I did not do that, I left all the control in her hands and showed that I was going to be available no matter what which has caused me so much mental torture I am not sure how I wake up in the morning.

I have never been an overly emotional person, rarely cried as an adult and honestly out of ignorance didn't believe in counseling, talking about feelings or thinking depression was a real thing, I have changed my opinion on everything this has been a full reset for me mentally and a very unpleasant learning experience.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> You act as if divorce papers are suddenly going to heal you. The only thing that can heal you is you. The only way to do that is to choose the proper actions that lead to your healing.
> 
> You can be divorced and still choose poorly.


FSJ you were correct here, after coming back to the reality of the situation I think I will be in a worse place mentally once the D is finalized.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I have not really had a chance to bring up my complaints, this has all been very one sided.
> 
> This has felt like a whirlwind process, I brought up a concern about has she cheated(first time of our marriage) she tells me no BUT I AM NOT HAPPY AND WANT A DIVORCE. I got into panic mode like I mentioned earlier and then she has come in and out emotionally sometimes we are 'working' on it and others times we are officially done and no chance and it went back and forth constantly, she would not give MC a shot and tells me I have hurt her too badly and she can't forgive me since I am never there for her emotionally and she can't trust me to be there for her anymore so she will never open up to me again.
> 
> I should have on day one just filed and been done with it, then if she showed serious commitment to want to work it out then I would have gone MC together and given it a chance... but....... I did not do that, I left all the control in her hands and showed that I was going to be available no matter what which has caused me so much mental torture I am not sure how I wake up in the morning.
> 
> I have never been an overly emotional person, rarely cried as an adult and honestly out of ignorance didn't believe in counseling, talking about feelings or thinking depression was a real thing, I have changed my opinion on everything this has been a full reset for me mentally and a very unpleasant learning experience.


Depression gripped me for a good 12-18 months and it makes you your own worst enemy. It's swept under

the rug often, until a famous person commits suicide or tries to over it, then it gets front page

news. This is what I and many others see on this board.... 1-"You spend all your time at work and

provide for us but you are not there emotionally" 2-"You're a great family man but you do not

go out and beat your brains out to provide for your family" LOL it's like PICK ONE!

My XW did the #1 on me.... no, no kids even though I was raising her son.... "Okay, thank you for

sharing this... how about if you get up and get a job, I won't have to work 70-80 hours a week

to pay the bills? (She worked while we dated and M but several years in, she suddenly came down

with everything but prostate cancer)" She went out, got a job... wasn't a problem anymore.

Shocking isn't it?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Depression gripped me for a good 12-18 months and it makes you your own worst enemy. It's swept under
> 
> the rug often, until a famous person commits suicide or tries to over it, then it gets front page
> 
> news. This is what I and many others see on this board.... 1-"You spend all your time at work and
> 
> provide for us but you are not there emotionally" 2-"You're a great family man but you do not
> 
> go out and beat your brains out to provide for your family" LOL it's like PICK ONE!
> 
> My XW did the #1 on me.... no, no kids even though I was raising her son.... "Okay, thank you for
> 
> sharing this... how about if you get up and get a job, I won't have to work 70-80 hours a week
> 
> to pay the bills? (She worked while we dated and M but several years in, she suddenly came down
> 
> with everything but prostate cancer)" She went out, got a job... wasn't a problem anymore.
> 
> Shocking isn't it?


Yep, she told me I am a great provider and a great dad just a terrible husband to her as I never made her feel like she was good enough(pressure she put on herself probably caused by me not opening up enough). She was never worried about spending the money or wanting to always buy new and better versions of what we already had which I paid for.

Did you seek help to deal with the depression?


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yep, she told me I am a great provider and a great dad just a terrible husband to her as I never made her feel like she was good enough(pressure she put on herself probably caused by me not opening up enough). She was never worried about spending the money or wanting to always buy new and better versions of what we already had which I paid for.
> 
> Did you seek help to deal with the depression?


Terrible H but your paycheck bought her the crap she so desired. Seriously? Ser-i-us-ly?

What if you cut your hours back and spent more time at home? Means she couldn't buy all them

fancy do-dads though. See where I am getting?

I sought no help. I pulled myself out through writing novels. Nothing beats self-help. But most can't

do it alone. Course I was lucky.... I have the lake 8>)


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yep, she told me I am a great provider and a great dad just a terrible husband to her as I never made her feel like she was good enough(pressure she put on herself probably caused by me not opening up enough). She was never worried about spending the money or wanting to always buy new and better versions of what we already had which I paid for.
> 
> Did you seek help to deal with the depression?


Was she an impulse buyer? Did she want to keep up with "the Jones'? 

My XW would get depressed and buy clothes, feel good, fix wore off. What would she do?

Buy more clothes. She always got pizzed when the bill came though.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Terrible H but your paycheck bought her the crap she so desired. Seriously? Ser-i-us-ly?
> 
> What if you cut your hours back and spent more time at home? Means she couldn't buy all them
> 
> fancy do-dads though. See where I am getting?
> 
> I sought no help. I pulled myself out through writing novels. Nothing beats self-help. But most can't
> 
> do it alone. Course I was lucky.... I have the lake 8>)


Funny at one point my Job got so overwhelming I developed all kinds of health ailments such as tight chest, shortness of breath and all kinds of stomach issues had a bunch of tests and was told it was anxiety and there was nothing physically wrong with me. 

I discussed finding something else but would have been much lower paying and she asked if I thought I could stick it out until we got to a certain point of stability which I agreed and we got too and know I am getting divorced. I brought that up recently and she told me we could have worked through it if we had just talked but I just showed too much frustration and brought her down by not being happy and its too late now etc, I was thinking we had discussed it LOL and she told me to suck it up or so it seemed to me at the time.

I am working with IC and think I will be for some time there is noway I could handle this otherwise, funny how only a couple years ago I thought Counselors were a Joke and now I am reliant on one to help me with an issue I also didn't used to think existed.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Was she an impulse buyer? *Did she want to keep up with "the Jones'? *
> 
> My XW would get depressed and buy clothes, feel good, fix wore off. What would she do?
> 
> Buy more clothes. She always got pizzed when the bill came though.


She had Periods of the bolded yes but would never admit to it, not with clothes though with Furniture and house decorating, the area we live in has quite a lot of money and some of her friends husbands are extremely wealthy so we upgrade our house 2 years ago which I was very uncomfortable with at the time since it was significantly more expensive to purchase and maintain than our prior house which I was very comfortable in but I like the house today and am keeping it after the D, I really dont want the extra stress from a move and it will help keep the kids lives more consistent by keeping the bedrooms.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Funny at one point my Job got so overwhelming I developed all kinds of health ailments such as tight chest, shortness of breath and all kinds of stomach issues had a bunch of tests and was told it was anxiety and there was nothing physically wrong with me.
> 
> I discussed finding something else but would have been much lower paying and she asked if I thought I could stick it out until we got to a certain point of stability which I agreed and we got too and know I am getting divorced. I brought that up recently and she told me we could have worked through it if we had just talked but I just showed too much frustration and brought her down by not being happy and its too late now etc, I was thinking we had discussed it LOL and *she told me to suck it up *or so it seemed to me at the time.
> 
> I am working with IC and think I will be for some time there is noway I could handle this otherwise, funny how only a couple years ago I thought Counselors were a Joke and now I am reliant on one to help me with an issue I also didn't used to think existed.


You were her mule. Cash cow. She was your college football coach who smoked unfiltered 

Lucky Strikes. I do hope the clouds are breaking on the other horizon MF. 

You were a worker bee who should have worked day and night until you dropped dead.

With your earnings and life insurance payout... do you think she would have missed you???


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> She had Periods of the bolded yes but would never admit to it, not with clothes though with Furniture and house decorating, the area we live in has quite a lot of money and some of her friends husbands are extremely wealthy so we upgrade our house 2 years ago which I was very uncomfortable with at the time since it was significantly more expensive to purchase and maintain than our prior house which I was very comfortable in but I like the house today and am keeping it after the D, I really dont want the extra stress from a move and it will help keep the kids lives more consistent by keeping the bedrooms.


Again.... worker bee drone / queen bee. Keeping up appearances (Brit series) was more her care

than driving you to an early grave. The times you stood up for yourself, she emasculated you.

Trust me... she had practice in this before you met her. How did her mom n dad's M end?

Outside of duty sex and a decent meal every now n then, what did SHE do for YOU?

Leave the kids out of the equation. I will answer why after you respond.....


----------



## Marc878

Smells like maybe OM has some money and she's trying to trade up.

You will definitely trade up with your newfound wisdom and the freedom it'll bring you.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> She had Periods of the bolded yes but would never admit to it, not with clothes though with Furniture and house decorating, the area we live in has quite a lot of money and some of her friends husbands are extremely wealthy so we upgrade our house 2 years ago which I was very uncomfortable with at the time since it was significantly more expensive to purchase and maintain than our prior house which I was very comfortable in but I like the house today and am keeping it after the D, I really dont want the extra stress from a move and it will help keep the kids lives more consistent by keeping the bedrooms.
> 
> 
> 
> Again.... worker bee drone / queen bee. Keeping up appearances (Brit series) was more her care
> 
> than driving you to an early grave. The times you stood up for yourself, she emasculated you.
> 
> Trust me... she had practice in this before you met her. How did her mom n dad's M end?
> 
> Outside of duty sex and a decent meal every now n then, what did SHE do for YOU?
> 
> Leave the kids out of the equation. I will answer why after you respond.....
Click to expand...

Not really sure how they separated but seeing them as Indivuals i cannot see how they ever were together.

I don't know never thought about it, the sex was amazing when we had it but not as often as I would have liked, she did cook but generally thinking about it she did not really support me in anything I had to keep my feelings buried so she didn't break down as anything from me other than utmost happiness was seen as an attack or she couldn't deal with it 'right now'

It sounds cheesy but I really just enjoyed her company(she can be a lot of fun) she is super social so always invited out to different events and it was nice to Just know somebody loved me and I had someone to hold, that's it really her bubbly fun personality, prior to children all we did is have fun and adventure together, both being from complete different back grounds made everything an adventure. I have always been the bill payer and financially responsible for everything and generally tried to cover at least 50% of everything else if possible.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Smells like maybe OM has some money and she's trying to trade up.
> 
> You will definitely trade up with your newfound wisdom and the freedom it'll bring you.


Maybe although she will be doing Ok with her settlement at least for a couple years and she is expected to receive a drastic earning increase over next few years, been together for 12 years and she finally starts Making some cash which takes some pressure of me and would have us with a ton of disposable income and she divorced me lol


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Not really sure how they separated but seeing them as Indivuals i cannot see how they ever were together.
> 
> I don't know never thought about it, the sex was amazing when we had it but not as often as I would have liked, she did cook but generally thinking about it she did not really support me in anything I had to keep my feelings buried so she didn't break down as anything from me other than utmost happiness was seen as an attack or she couldn't deal with it 'right now'
> 
> It sounds cheesy but I really just enjoyed her company(she can be a lot of fun) she is super social so always invited out to different events and it was nice to Just know somebody loved me and I had someone to hold, that's it really her bubbly fun personality, prior to children all we did is have fun and adventure together, both being from complete different back grounds made everything an adventure. I have always been the bill payer and financially responsible for everything and generally tried to cover at least 50% of everything else if possible.


Wrap the cracklings out of your eyes..... you are about to see things........

Wasn't all your fault.... bet your farm and mine too. SAHM, endless cash flow, then *poof*

I smell something.....


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> FSJ you were correct here, after coming back to the reality of the situation I think I will be in a worse place mentally once the D is finalized.


You'll feel an overwhelming sense of relief once the d is final which you may feel a tab guilty about that. Yes you will be sad but not nearly as much as you are worrying about. The struggle will be officially over. The whole final thing is a very anti climatic experience.


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> FSJ you were correct here, after coming back to the reality of the situation I think I will be in a worse place mentally once the D is finalized.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll feel an overwhelming sense of relief once the d is final which you may feel a tab guilty about that. Yes you will be sad but not nearly as much as you are worrying about. The struggle will be officially over. The whole final thing is a very anti climatic experience.
Click to expand...

I hope so @honcho not sure how much worse I could take. I hope there is a sexy nymphomaniac waiting for me after to work away the frustration for a couple of weeks lol


----------



## MovingForward

Still not feeling the best about the situation today I feel like I am constantly on edge and it is killing my concentration also so making it hard to get through a work day without distraction. 

Have to meet STBXW today to sign a motion for our mediator to cancel our court date so we can continue with private mediation and keep it out the hands of a judge so we do not have to step inside the court house again since everything will be mailed instead which I guess is nice.

Had a tough workout last night and usually this distracts me for some time after but last night it was all back at the forefront of my mind the minute I left the gym then had it simmering all night which kills my time with the children since I dont feel like I am mentally present for them or being a good parent as I dont feel like I have anything mentally to offer I am consumed with D and the fear and anxiety that come with that.

Meeting some friends tonight for some drinks hopefully it gives me a break from my own head.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Wrap the cracklings out of your eyes..... you are about to see things........
> 
> Wasn't all your fault.... bet your farm and mine too. SAHM, endless cash flow, then *poof*
> 
> I smell something.....


Yeah i guess things will become clearer with time at least i hope and i can accept it for what it is, just a tough situation to be in and it really messes with my head I feel like my brain keeps running a million miles per hour then stops on a dime constantly.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Still not feeling the best about the situation today I feel like I am constantly on edge and it is killing my concentration also so making it hard to get through a work day without distraction.
> 
> Have to meet STBXW today to sign a motion for our mediator to cancel our court date so we can continue with private mediation and keep it out the hands of a judge so we do not have to step inside the court house again since everything will be mailed instead which I guess is nice.
> 
> Had a tough workout last night and usually this distracts me for some time after but last night it was all back at the forefront of my mind the minute I left the gym then had it simmering all night which kills my time with the children since I dont feel like I am mentally present for them or being a good parent as I dont feel like I have anything mentally to offer I am consumed with D and the fear and anxiety that come with that.
> 
> Meeting some friends tonight for some drinks hopefully it gives me a break from my own head.


Check out my first two threads.... they're VERY short. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61735-normal-fell-way.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/64013-crossroads-sink-swim.html

I was where you are.......


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Check out my first two threads.... they're VERY short.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61735-normal-fell-way.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/64013-crossroads-sink-swim.html
> 
> I was where you are.......


Chuck,

I read through the two posts and partial Skim read crossroads II and there are a lot of things that stood out for me in and are similar to what I have seen/head in the bolded below

*i just cant get over the fact of not even trying to work through things. call me crazy but i always thought a marriage was something you would fight for. just doesn't make sense * - This has really bothered me, I don't understand why you would be so rushed to quit after such a long time, she told me it is too painful and she feels too pressured and trapped currently.

*She said she had felt that way for about four years. I question that by...all the i love yous, the happy anniversaries, the I am so lucky to have you for the rest of my life during those four years.* - She told me 18 months but even a month before we had the talk she was super loving and affectionate and posting about us like usual on how much she loves me and how lucky her and the kids are to have me.

*......thanks for paying lights..also..after the divorce or even before its final if you would like to take me out..that would be nice..i still love you..just not like im suppose too..never know a flame cud light back up..its up to u................* - My wife told me the same once we are D, she even went as far to say we should date and continue to have sex, she feels like she needs to miss me more and is not sure she loves me like she is supposed to love a husband.

*Am I scared of my future? Oh yes....to say the least.* - I am TERRIFIED of the unknown, being alone, not finding someone to love me again, losing all mutual acquaintances and just loneliness in general. 

* I would like to mention things which occur often or, at least, are happening to me. Leading up to the D, ex was quite nice. After the D* - My STBXW has been very nice throughout if we engage, she is always at the house, still makes dinner for me, does laundry and recently I have been trying to get out the house as much as possible and she has not complained once, this weekend I even booked something which overlapped something she had already arranged and she just told me don't worry I can just meet **** and *** later you do your thing you need to get out more???

*BTW I told X years ago, may be a year after M, the marriage certificate is simply a piece of paper. What makes the paper mean anything is the relationship of the two people on it. X didn't get it either. He!! may be it's just me. * - I never planned to get married I didn't need it for the commitment we got married because we lived in different countries and it was the only way we could be together so we booked in and went for it, I don't think I will ever marry again it is way too painful having all the legal process to deal with while suffering the emotional turmoil.


----------



## Chuck71

Once XW realized I saw life without her as better..... more reaches than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night.

XW has made at least one reach every year since D. Made a strong one just back in the Fall.

The light bill was to force her hand. That was the olive branch. If we had done MC, there was no promise I'd want to go back.

Everyone is scared of their future after a 10+ year M that ends. It's healthy to.... but to also be optimistic. MF... you will have a brighter tomorrow. If I listed the five worst things which happened in my life.... over the horizon were brighter days, every damn time.

XW was nice leading up to D because she knew it was real. And I was not reaching. She knew... she overplayed her hand. I tried to take action to save the M, she had refused. By the time she decided it was worth saving, I was ice cold.

A M certificate is worth "the paper it is written on." If it was all so powerful, WTF do we have 50%+ D rates? A M is what the two make of it. As we see on these boards often, the H 85% gets raked over the coals during a D. Maybe it's not the fear of M but... the fear of D where you lose half your earning, see your kids half-time (at best), lose your home. Everything he considered "family" gets taken away.... wife, kids, home.

Side note: I was single when I bought my 1st duplex to rent out. I met XW later that year. I re-fi'd it five years later to lower the interest rate. At the time.... I was M so W had to sign too. She threw a sheet-fit when she saw my mom's name on the deed. "If you recall, when I purchased this, I did not know you. I wanted mom's name on it too in case something happened to me and mom could use it for income when she got older." She was speechless.... I walked towards the bedroom door.... "You showed me some of your true colors."

Also.... a week before we got M, I went with mom to the courthouse and placed my 1962 Corvette into mom's name. The only female I have ever trusted 100% for more than say... a year.... was my mom. MF you and I can start a business in AZ dealing with Spring Training and Fall Baseball.... you may trust me... but you're still going to count the drawer after I do.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Once XW realized I saw life without her as better..... more reaches than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night.
> 
> XW has made at least one reach every year since D. Made a strong one just back in the Fall.
> 
> The light bill was to force her hand. That was the olive branch. If we had done MC, there was no promise I'd want to go back.
> 
> Everyone is scared of their future after a 10+ year M that ends. It's healthy to.... but to also be optimistic. MF... you will have a brighter tomorrow. If I listed the five worst things which happened in my life.... over the horizon were brighter days, every damn time.
> 
> XW was nice leading up to D because she knew it was real. And I was not reaching. She knew... she overplayed her hand. I tried to take action to save the M, she had refused. By the time she decided it was worth saving, I was ice cold.
> 
> A M certificate is worth "the paper it is written on." If it was all so powerful, WTF do we have 50%+ D rates? A M is what the two make of it. As we see on these boards often, the H 85% gets raked over the coals during a D. Maybe it's not the fear of M but... the fear of D where you lose half your earning, see your kids half-time (at best), lose your home. Everything he considered "family" gets taken away.... wife, kids, home.
> 
> Side note: I was single when I bought my 1st duplex to rent out. I met XW later that year. I re-fi'd it five years later to lower the interest rate. At the time.... I was M so W had to sign too. She threw a sheet-fit when she saw my mom's name on the deed. "If you recall, when I purchased this, I did not know you. I wanted mom's name on it too in case something happened to me and mom could use it for income when she got older." She was speechless.... I walked towards the bedroom door.... "You showed me some of your true colors."
> 
> Also.... a week before we got M, I went with mom to the courthouse and placed my 1962 Corvette into mom's name. The only female I have ever trusted 100% for more than say... a year.... was my mom. MF you and I can start a business in AZ dealing with Spring Training and Fall Baseball.... you may trust me... but you're still going to count the drawer after I do.


Yes he financial implications for the higher earner or more financially secure are huge, my W has never made a payment on our house yet I have to pay a significantly amount to keep it which has cost me my 401k on top of that despite 50/50 custody I am Down to pay a decent chunk of change in child support, provide medical for everyone and alimony to maintain a lifestyle I provided and I am considering myself one of the lucky ones. I will be able to fall in love again potentially but no more children and no marriage I don't think I will fully trust anyone ever again.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yes he financial implications for the higher earner or more financially secure are huge, my W has never made a payment on our house yet I have to pay a significantly amount to keep it which has cost me my 401k on top of that despite 50/50 custody I am Down to pay a decent chunk of change in child support, provide medical for everyone and alimony to maintain a lifestyle I provided and I am considering myself one of the lucky ones. I will be able to fall in love again potentially but no more children and* no marriage I don't think I will fully trust anyone ever again*.


THAT is why so many guys do not think highly of M. For about two years after my D, 

I was dead set against M. If you are older, no kids between the two, each have home paid for,

and any venture is exactly 50 / 50 (vacation home)... it isn't that bad at all.

A M is a contract but it is not viewed as one by many. If I was reading these boards at age 25, there is

no Fing way I would M.

MF.... once you are D.... she is pretty much going to live the very same way she did when you

were M (at least a few years). WTF not D you? She has no incentive to stay. THAT'S the problem

with courts / family courts today.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Chuck,
> 
> I read through the two posts and partial Skim read crossroads II and there are a lot of things that stood out for me in and are similar to what I have seen/head in the bolded below
> 
> *i just cant get over the fact of not even trying to work through things. call me crazy but i always thought a marriage was something you would fight for. just doesn't make sense * - This has really bothered me, I don't understand why you would be so rushed to quit after such a long time, she told me it is too painful and she feels too pressured and trapped currently.
> 
> *She said she had felt that way for about four years. I question that by...all the i love yous, the happy anniversaries, the I am so lucky to have you for the rest of my life during those four years.* - She told me 18 months but even a month before we had the talk she was super loving and affectionate and posting about us like usual on how much she loves me and how lucky her and the kids are to have me.
> 
> Smells like an affair. Most women can't love two men at the same time. Hence, you have to go.
> 
> *......thanks for paying lights..also..after the divorce or even before its final if you would like to take me out..that would be nice..i still love you..just not like im suppose too..never know a flame cud light back up..its up to u................* - My wife told me the same once we are D, she even went as far to say we should date and continue to have sex, she feels like she needs to miss me more and is not sure she loves me like she is supposed to love a husband.
> 
> She wants to keep you as her Plan B just in case. "Let's be friends"! This is for her not you. For gods sake don't be a patsy!!!
> 
> *Am I scared of my future? Oh yes....to say the least.* - I am TERRIFIED of the unknown, being alone, not finding someone to love me again, losing all mutual acquaintances and just loneliness in general.
> 
> Hard 180 and this will pass.
> 
> * I would like to mention things which occur often or, at least, are happening to me. Leading up to the D, ex was quite nice. After the D* - My STBXW has been very nice throughout if we engage, she is always at the house, still makes dinner for me, does laundry and recently I have been trying to get out the house as much as possible and she has not complained once, this weekend I even booked something which overlapped something she had already arranged and she just told me don't worry I can just meet **** and *** later you do your thing you need to get out more???
> 
> Very nice? She's dumping you!
> 
> *BTW I told X years ago, may be a year after M, the marriage certificate is simply a piece of paper. What makes the paper mean anything is the relationship of the two people on it. X didn't get it either. He!! may be it's just me. * - I never planned to get married I didn't need it for the commitment we got married because we lived in different countries and it was the only way we could be together so we booked in and went for it, I don't think I will ever marry again it is way too painful having all the legal process to deal with while suffering the emotional turmoil.


Hard 180 will get you some clarity. Wake up and go your own way. Get yourself out of the turmoil. If you don't this will continue. Never be someones plan B doormat


----------



## Tobyboy

MovingForward said:


> Yes he financial implications for the higher earner or more financially secure are huge, my W has never made a payment on our house yet I have to pay a significantly amount to keep it which has cost me my 401k on top of that despite 50/50 custody I am Down to pay a decent chunk of change in child support, provide medical for everyone and alimony to maintain a lifestyle I provided and I am considering myself one of the lucky ones. I will be able to fall in love again potentially but no more children and no marriage I don't think I will fully trust anyone ever again.


Has it been agreed that alimony ends at cohabitation?


----------



## Chuck71

Tobyboy said:


> Has it been agreed that alimony ends at cohabitation?


Proving this...... is HARD. Most who move POSOM in after the D know not to make it appear

he is there daily. No mail there in his name, no car there x days a week. Some skirt the law

by saying his car is not there most of the time.... (work, his hobbies, his place, etc).

Too much grey areas.


----------



## Marc878

Tobyboy said:


> Has it been agreed that alimony ends at cohabitation?


Important info here. Find out your rights!!!!! I'd bet she'll move OM in quick. Hence, her wanting to be able to introduce the kids in three months. Be careful of the wording in mediation!!!!!!!

Better get this lined out before you sign or word it in your favor. Look over the docs before you sign. I'd hoc something to get an expert opinion


----------



## Marc878

You're doing well so far. Not as deep in a fog as some at this time.

Most going through this will project their feelings onto the STBXW. That's why it's hard to understand that their feelings toward you aren't the same as yours are towards her. If they were she wouldn't be divorcing you would she?

Like most you don't see it just yet. The big clue you've posted is her wanting introduction rights early with the kids. Big eye opener!!!

However, you can't stop her from doing anything. The best thing to do for you is stay out of her life and keep her out of yours. Yep, you have kids but it can be done to where it's kept at a bare minimum.

Get out, stay out and make your own life.


----------



## honcho

Marc878 said:


> Important info here. Find out your rights!!!!! I'd bet she'll move OM in quick. Hence, her wanting to be able to introduce the kids in three months. Be careful of the wording in mediation!!!!!!!
> 
> Better get this lined out before you sign or word it in your favor. Look over the docs before you sign. I'd hoc something to get an expert opinion


Most lawyers/mediators in my area just automatically put marriage in the paperwork, you have to specifically state you want cohabitation instead of marriage in the papers.


----------



## Chuck71

Marc878 said:


> You're doing well so far. Not as deep in a fog as some at this time.
> 
> Most going through this will project their feelings onto the STBXW. That's why it's hard to understand that their feelings toward you aren't the same as yours are towards her. If they were she wouldn't be divorcing you would she?
> 
> Like most you don't see it just yet. *The big clue you've posted is her wanting introduction rights early with the kids*. Big eye opener!!!
> 
> However, you can't stop her from doing anything. The best thing to do for you is stay out of her life and keep her out of yours. Yep, you have kids but it can be done to where it's kept at a bare minimum.
> 
> Get out, stay out and make your own life.


Damn I missed this. That is a tell-tell. Have you investigated? Is this guy M or have gf?

The great thing about WS and OM/OW.... they don't think straight and make many mistakes.

Detective hat...... this can buy you some leverage.


----------



## MovingForward

Tobyboy said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he financial implications for the higher earner or more financially secure are huge, my W has never made a payment on our house yet I have to pay a significantly amount to keep it which has cost me my 401k on top of that despite 50/50 custody I am Down to pay a decent chunk of change in child support, provide medical for everyone and alimony to maintain a lifestyle I provided and I am considering myself one of the lucky ones. I will be able to fall in love again potentially but no more children and no marriage I don't think I will fully trust anyone ever again.
> 
> 
> 
> Has it been agreed that alimony ends at cohabitation?
Click to expand...

No it has not yet I had Not thought about it, I am in the process of writing out a new proposal so depending on how that goes I may or may not wrote it in, alimony in my state is either able to be changed or not I am planning for not changing which means it cannot be changed by a judge but also means if I lose my Job I still owe but on the flip side it also means she cannot come after me for more or longer duration , Currently she has agreed to half the time duration and less than half the calculated amount so might not be worth the risk of stirring the pot.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he financial implications for the higher earner or more financially secure are huge, my W has never made a payment on our house yet I have to pay a significantly amount to keep it which has cost me my 401k on top of that despite 50/50 custody I am Down to pay a decent chunk of change in child support, provide medical for everyone and alimony to maintain a lifestyle I provided and I am considering myself one of the lucky ones. I will be able to fall in love again potentially but no more children and* no marriage I don't think I will fully trust anyone ever again*.
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is why so many guys do not think highly of M. For about two years after my D,
> 
> I was dead set against M. If you are older, no kids between the two, each have home paid for,
> 
> and any venture is exactly 50 / 50 (vacation home)... it isn't that bad at all.
> 
> A M is a contract but it is not viewed as one by many. If I was reading these boards at age 25, there is
> 
> no Fing way I would M.
> 
> MF.... once you are D.... she is pretty much going to live the very same way she did when you
> 
> were M (at least a few years). WTF not D you? She has no incentive to stay. THAT'S the problem
> 
> with courts / family courts today.
Click to expand...

Yes she will be fine financially and will not be changing lifestyle much if at all but I plan to forget and move on, financially I should be in a reasonable place so be able to do what I want after i recover from the initial settlement


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> You're doing well so far. Not as deep in a fog as some at this time.
> 
> Most going through this will project their feelings onto the STBXW. That's why it's hard to understand that their feelings toward you aren't the same as yours are towards her. If they were she wouldn't be divorcing you would she?
> 
> Like most you don't see it just yet. The big clue you've posted is her wanting introduction rights early with the kids. Big eye opener!!!
> 
> However, you can't stop her from doing anything. The best thing to do for you is stay out of her life and keep her out of yours. Yep, you have kids but it can be done to where it's kept at a bare minimum.
> 
> Get out, stay out and make your own life.


I do all my complaining on her and in IC we don't talk or discuss anything I just do my own thing and we make sure someone is home with the children. I am still not fully accepting or over it or her but I do not let her know the at all.

The fog is there that is for sure I cannot wait until it clears and I am free.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Marc878 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're doing well so far. Not as deep in a fog as some at this time.
> 
> Most going through this will project their feelings onto the STBXW. That's why it's hard to understand that their feelings toward you aren't the same as yours are towards her. If they were she wouldn't be divorcing you would she?
> 
> Like most you don't see it just yet. *The big clue you've posted is her wanting introduction rights early with the kids*. Big eye opener!!!
> 
> However, you can't stop her from doing anything. The best thing to do for you is stay out of her life and keep her out of yours. Yep, you have kids but it can be done to where it's kept at a bare minimum.
> 
> Get out, stay out and make your own life.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn I missed this. That is a tell-tell. Have you investigated? Is this guy M or have gf?
> 
> The great thing about WS and OM/OW.... they don't think straight and make many mistakes.
> 
> Detective hat...... this can buy you some leverage.
Click to expand...

I have zero proof just had a gut feeling and have not been able to find anything, she is always here so I don't think anything is happening currently I think it was a one off if anything happened and she regretted it for potentially ruining her reputation so is on a break and plans to pick it back up slowly after the D. If it is who I think it is he is a local guy and single with children with two different woman he has his own company in the area and relies on being a good guy in the community so if it does turn out it is him I will destroy his reputation and hers


----------



## JohnA

Stay focus on getting the terms you need for post divorce life, but grab all the phone bills both cellular and land for as far back as you can. Later you can use them to track volume and times of calls and texts. Focus on the time before things went south. If he has children with multiple woman chance are he is a player and shortly after the adultery began guided her to a burner phone and/or apps that leave a trail.


----------



## farsidejunky

MovingForward said:


> I have zero proof just had a gut feeling and have not been able to find anything, she is always here so I don't think anything is happening currently I think it was a one off if anything happened and she regretted it for potentially ruining her reputation so is on a break and plans to pick it back up slowly after the D. If it is who I think it is he is a local guy and single with children with two different woman he has his own company in the area and relies on being a good guy in the community so if it does turn out it is him I will destroy his reputation and hers


Not without a shred of evidence you won't.


----------



## Marc878

If it were me if VAR her car. Just be careful


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Stay focus on getting the terms you need for post divorce life, but grab all the phone bills both cellular and land for as far back as you can. Later you can use them to track volume and times of calls and texts. Focus on the time before things went south. If he has children with multiple woman chance are he is a player and shortly after the adultery began guided her to a burner phone and/or apps that leave a trail.


We don't have a land line and have company Phones so I don't have access to Bills.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

farsidejunky said:


> Not without a shred of evidence you won't.




The thing about reputation is its build on impressions and reliance on validation of others. If this suspect guy seems to be the OM and settles in quickly, you don't need hard evidence to convey your belief that he's a home wrecker. It comes down to your credibility. And once the word is out, it will either spread because the signs are there or it won't.

I would not hesitate to communicate my suspicions. I'd consider it consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Not without a shred of evidence you won't.


Rumors and accusations are normally enough don't always need cold hard evidence, if this guy pops up straight after D then I will know I was right about my hunch.

Not sure how much energy I will even want to waste on it though at the end (hopefully not a lot), if it is the guy I am thinking though I will be pissed as we know a lot of mutual people so I would assume others know who know me and i feel like it makes me a laughing stock. 

If its a random dude who I dont know I can't do much about it and just hope he is not an ass hole to my Children.



Marc878 said:


> If it were me if VAR her car. Just be careful


Not sure how legal that is and I would be very worried about getting caught.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> The big clue you've posted is her wanting introduction rights early with the kids. Big eye opener!!! -*This is still really bothering me but not sure it is worth arguing since enforcement would be very difficult and who starts the clock on when the relationship begins and what classes as an introduction?????? *
> 
> Get out, stay out and make your own life. -*This is the key for me, building a life takes time but I have to get there if i want to be happy again even if that seems years away at this time*


----------



## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> The thing about reputation is its build on impressions and reliance on validation of others. If this suspect guy seems to be the OM and settles in quickly, *you don't need hard evidence to convey your belief that he's a home wrecker*. It comes down to your credibility. And once the word is out, it will either spread because the signs are there or it won't.
> 
> I would not hesitate to communicate my suspicions. I'd consider it consequences.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, I am angry and depressed at this time maybe I can get past some of that before the D is final I will spent my energy focusing on myself instead but currently i want to project on someone else.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Rumors and accusations are normally enough don't always need cold hard evidence, if this guy pops up straight after D then I will know I was right about my hunch.
> 
> Not sure how much energy I will even want to waste on it though at the end (hopefully not a lot), if it is the guy I am thinking though I will be pissed as we know a lot of mutual people so I would assume others know who know me and i feel like it makes me a laughing stock.
> 
> If its a random dude who I dont know I can't do much about it and just hope he is not an ass hole to my Children.
> 
> 
> Not sure how legal that is and I would be very worried about getting caught.


Is her car in your name? Both names? Hers?

Even if it is in her name, last I checked, it is marital property.

You can't use a VAR in court. VAR is to find out if......


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Is her car in your name? Both names? Hers?
> 
> Even if it is in her name, last I checked, it is marital property.
> 
> You can't use a VAR in court. VAR is to find out if......


Cars in both names.


----------



## Marc878

Var is purely for information purposes only. Unless you wanted to expose and end the affair if there is one but from what you've posted it's a good bet.

Pay cash. They are cheap. Velcro securely under the car seat. If it's found you don't even know what a var is. Who's gonna prove it? Knowledge helps with closure


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Cars in both names.


You placed it there to see if your 12 y/o was sneaking to the car and smoke a cigarette. 

Legal or illegal.... I would do it.... But that's just me. 

PS-I am 99% sure it isn't illegal.


----------



## MovingForward

Just got a text from W out the blue, she want's to tell the kids soon, not sure why but right there again my heart broke and I feel terrible in myself, about life and about the situation that is happening and can't hold my emotions inside so sitting at desk crying to myself. 

I replied about changing some of the agreement we made in Mediation and she called me mad but then agreed to the changes as she felt they were fair and I was OK but then she tells me she wants to tell the kids tomorrow!!!!!! I just lost it and couldn't control my crying and had to hang up, basically made a fool out of myself.

Also told me she wants this over with ASAP and she will be house hunting next week as she needs to move on and can't do that currently. 

Why does the pain keep coming back continually it never stays away????!!!


----------



## farsidejunky

Because you are refusing to accept that your marriage is over.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Because you are refusing to accept that your marriage is over.


I know you are right, I think I get by pretending nothing is happening, I am still in shock this is my life.


----------



## Marc878

Like most you probably see her for who you thought she was as well not who she is.

VAR will help bring clarity to that.

I suspect at this time you don't want to know. Denial just keeps you in self imposed limbo hell.

Wake up


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you are refusing to accept that your marriage is over.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are right, I think I get by pretending nothing is happening, I am still in shock this is my life.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is your life and you have to figure a way to deal with it. Like everyone else who goes through this.

I'm sorry but this isn't a special circumstance and she's no unique snowflake.

She's either getting eager to move on with other man or he's pressing her to move faster or a combination of both.


----------



## Absurdist

MF - today I was reading a story about a small town that was totally obliterated by a tornado three years ago. One photo in particular showed a man sitting among the rubble of his destroyed home holding his dead dog. Flash forward three years. Same man. House restored, new trees, new sod and two new black labs. In an interview he said yes, this was bad but I had a choice. I could continue to sit among the ruins of my life or I could start to rebuild. He said he began to heal when he got out of the victim chair and started to press forward and recreate.

Be that guy MF. It's your choice. You can sit among the ruins holding a dead dog or you can.... move forward.

Be your username.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Like most you probably see her for who you thought she was as well not who she is.
> 
> VAR will help bring clarity to that.
> 
> I suspect at this time you don't want to know. Denial just keeps you in self imposed limbo hell.
> 
> Wake up





Marc878 said:


> Yes, it is your life and you have to figure a way to deal with it. Like everyone else who goes through this.
> 
> I'm sorry but this isn't a special circumstance and she's no unique snowflake.
> 
> She's either getting eager to move on with other man or he's pressing her to move faster or a combination of both.


I don't think I need anymore clarity. I need to figure another way of dealing with it as what i am doing doesn't work, just keeping myself busy all the time but anytime something else comes up its another blow and i go back down to the bottom.

I don't know if it is just gonna keep getting worse until it gets better but i hope not, I am still stuck in Limbo Legally, financially, physically in the house and have to remain calm and civil so she doesn't become unreasonable in mediation as she could get a lot more than she is asking currently the pressure is driving me insane.


----------



## Marc878

Can you get away for a few days?

Maybe take off for the weekend?


----------



## Marc878

At least an emergency session with your IC?


----------



## MovingForward

Absurdist said:


> MF - today I was reading a story about a small town that was totally obliterated by a tornado three years ago. One photo in particular showed a man sitting among the rubble of his destroyed home holding his dead dog. Flash forward three years. Same man. House restored, new trees, new sod and two new black labs. In an interview he said yes, this was bad but I had a choice. I could continue to sit among the ruins of my life or I could start to rebuild. He said he began to heal when he got out of the victim chair and started to press forward and recreate.
> 
> Be that guy MF. It's your choice. You can sit among the ruins holding a dead dog or you can.... move forward.
> 
> Be your username.


I know, I want to rebuilt but still stuck until all the legal stuff has been finalized as I need to limit my financial hit as much as possible.

Once it is finalized I will have the house with some decent equity but negative Cash and Zero retirement and paying a healthy amount of cash out each month to her but it could be much worse so just need it signed and approved then I can think about how to rebuild and what i want that to look like.

I am trying to get in on Monday to finish the draft settlement agreement but not heard back yet and if not Monday it will be the following week, then 2-3 weeks after that for final review before submitting to a judge to approve and issue the decrees.

Mentally this has been the toughest situation ever and most of it was because i was not prepared and couldn't believe it was happening.

I picked my username on a more positive day :smile2:


----------



## Marc878

It is up to now the toughest thing you've dealt with in your life. Worse than the death of a parent.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Can you get away for a few days?
> 
> Maybe take off for the weekend?


No but I wont be around her much and she is away for work most of next week so guess I can have some time to reflect without having to see her.



Marc878 said:


> At least an emergency session with your IC?


I am in to see him tonight just by luck, I had booked a bunch of sessions and forgot about this one and got an email reminder.

I am just a mess not been able to do a thing at work all week this brain fog is really slowing me down.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> It is up to now the toughest thing you've dealt with in your life. *Worse than the death of a parent.*


Funny you say above, I told the same thing to the IC, When I first met my W my dad had a major accident and we got called into while they read him his last rights and sat all night waiting for him to pass and in the worst part of that I didn't feel as bad as I have during this time. He survived in the end but has serious issues still.


----------



## Marc878

Make sure you inform your boss what you're going through. They should understand this. It'll help


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> I know, I want to rebuilt but still stuck until all the legal stuff has been finalized as I need to limit my financial hit as much as possible.
> 
> Once it is finalized I will have the house with some decent equity but negative Cash and Zero retirement and paying a healthy amount of cash out each month to her but it could be much worse so just need it signed and approved then I can think about how to rebuild and what i want that to look like.
> 
> I am trying to get in on Monday to finish the draft settlement agreement but not heard back yet and if not Monday it will be the following week, then 2-3 weeks after that for final review before submitting to a judge to approve and issue the decrees.
> 
> Mentally this has been the toughest situation ever and most of it was because i was not prepared and couldn't believe it was happening.
> 
> I picked my username on a more positive day :smile2:


Your not stuck until the financial stuff is finalized. This is one of the excuses you've been telling yourself to avoid facing the issue head on. Whether you get a sweetheart deal or she took you to the cleaners has nothing to do with you detaching and going forward as a divorced man. The two of you have been playing house these last few months and the best thing that can happen is she moves out and the faster the better. I have no idea how people can live together till a divorce is final. The woman who I was seeing did this until a month or two before her divorce was final. She freely admitted a couple months after moving out it did nobody any good including her kids. 

Help her pack and get her gone, it'll hurt but it's better than this slow death you've been experiencing.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Make sure you inform your boss what you're going through. They should understand this. It'll help


I told him, he was the one who made the decision to allow my schedule to change to accommodate shared custody. He comes in and asks what is going on from time to time.

I feel like my brain is a pile of mush............


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Just got a text from W out the blue, she want's to tell the kids soon, not sure why but right there again my heart broke and I feel terrible in myself, about life and about the situation that is happening and can't hold my emotions inside so sitting at desk crying to myself.
> 
> I replied about changing some of the agreement we made in Mediation and she called me mad but then agreed to the changes as she felt they were fair and I was OK but then she tells me she wants to tell the kids tomorrow!!!!!! I just lost it and couldn't control my crying and had to hang up, basically made a fool out of myself.
> 
> Also told me she wants this over with ASAP and she will be house hunting next week as she needs to move on and can't do that currently.
> 
> Why does the pain keep coming back continually it never stays away????!!!


Because YOU allow IT.......... you think it's bad now, just wait. Loading up 2x4s....


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> Your not stuck until the financial stuff is finalized. This is one of the excuses you've been telling yourself to avoid facing the issue head on. Whether you get a sweetheart deal or she took you to the cleaners has nothing to do with you detaching and going forward as a divorced man. The two of you have been playing house these last few months and the best thing that can happen is she moves out and the faster the better. I have no idea how people can live together till a divorce is final. The woman who I was seeing did this until a month or two before her divorce was final. She freely admitted a couple months after moving out it did nobody any good including her kids.
> 
> Help her pack and get her gone, it'll hurt but it's better than this slow death you've been experiencing.


I cannot yet unfortunately she is financially dependent on me and until the Divorce QUADRO is done and cash released I cannot give her the money.

If I move out I still have to pay everything as is until finalized and then she has 90 days to vacate the residence still after that.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Because YOU allow IT.......... you think it's bad now, just wait. Loading up 2x4s....


I have not been mentally strong enough throughout this process, I have not had it in me it all came as a shock and hit me like a MAC truck to the face and think I am still concussed or brain damaged or something.

If we did not have kids I would love to just get in my car and leave everything behind.


----------



## farsidejunky

None of what you mentioned in this post is necessary to accept the current situation, remove yourself from the victim chair, and begin to rebuild. 

It starts with something that is entirely free of monetary cost: loving yourself. It does not cost money. It only costs time, effort, and deciding to no longer be a victim. 

Justifying remaining in the victim chair because of a small modicum of financial insecurity is simply allowing your subconscious mind to rule you. 

Is that who you want to be?



MovingForward said:


> I know, I want to rebuilt but still stuck until all the legal stuff has been finalized as I need to limit my financial hit as much as possible.
> 
> Once it is finalized I will have the house with some decent equity but negative Cash and Zero retirement and paying a healthy amount of cash out each month to her but it could be much worse so just need it signed and approved then I can think about how to rebuild and what i want that to look like.
> 
> I am trying to get in on Monday to finish the draft settlement agreement but not heard back yet and if not Monday it will be the following week, then 2-3 weeks after that for final review before submitting to a judge to approve and issue the decrees.
> 
> Mentally this has been the toughest situation ever and most of it was because i was not prepared and couldn't believe it was happening.
> 
> I picked my username on a more positive day :smile2:


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> None of what you mentioned in this post is necessary to accept the current situation, remove yourself from the victim chair, and begin to rebuild.
> 
> It starts with something that is entirely free of monetary cost: loving yourself. It does not cost money. It only costs time, effort, and deciding to no longer be a victim.
> 
> Justifying remaining in the victim chair because of a small modicum of financial insecurity is simply allowing your subconscious mind to rule you.
> 
> Is that who you want to be?


I don't want to be that person I just want to get past this and be happy, I know what I should be doing i just don't manage to get it done. Feel like I have mentally shut down and just devastated at the loss of the family. 

Hoping IC and a workout later can help guide me to a better place.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I know, I want to rebuilt but still stuck until all the legal stuff has been finalized as I need to limit my financial hit as much as possible.
> 
> Once it is finalized I will have the house with some decent equity but negative Cash and Zero retirement and paying a healthy amount of cash out each month to her but it could be much worse so just need it signed and approved then I can think about how to rebuild and what i want that to look like.
> 
> I am trying to get in on Monday to finish the draft settlement agreement but not heard back yet and if not Monday it will be the following week, then 2-3 weeks after that for final review before submitting to a judge to approve and issue the decrees.
> 
> Mentally this has been the toughest situation ever and most of it was because i was not prepared and couldn't believe it was happening.
> 
> I picked my username on a more positive day :smile2:


THIS is why so many Hs want a R. Could you blame them? You go from an upper end professional

to making MAYBE more than a VoTech guy. Was that in your plans?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> THIS is why so many Hs want a R. Could you blame them? You go from an upper end professional
> 
> to making MAYBE more than a VoTech guy. Was that in your plans?


I haven't managed to let go and stop loving her yet and was not ready or prepared to lose my family and be alone, my family and good friends are all in another country so rebuilding that aspect as well so it started extremely isolating but is getting better.

The financial impact for sure adds to the general stress of the situation and makes the prospect of a future M very unappealing. . 

For her she must be relatively stress free, she gets the D she wants, a tons of cash, assets and a healthy 401k and a decent monthly payment for the next 12+ year with kids only 50% of the time while having her family near by to support her through this.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> *I cannot yet unfortunately she is financially dependent on me *and until the Divorce QUADRO is done and cash released I cannot give her the money.
> 
> If I move out I still have to pay everything as is until finalized and then she has 90 days to vacate the residence still after that.


Guys....... THIS is what you get by beating your brains out.......


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Guys....... THIS is what you get by beating your brains out.......


The Worst part about paying for an X spouse is the nicer and more generous you are in the M the more generous you have to be after


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I haven't managed to let go and stop loving her yet and was not ready or prepared to lose my family and be alone, my family and good friends are all in another country so rebuilding that aspect as well so it started extremely isolating but is getting better.
> 
> *Start seeing her for who she is. She's doing this because she wants to. You aren't perfect. No one is. She's using her excuses to rationalize and justify.*
> 
> The financial impact for sure adds to the general stress of the situation and makes the prospect of a future M very unappealing. .
> 
> *You will have a lot less expense with her gone. Think about it.*
> 
> For her she must be relatively stress free, she gets the D she wants, a tons of cash, assets and a healthy 401k and a decent monthly payment for the next 12+ year with kids only 50% of the time while having her family near by to support her through this.


You aren't losing your kids you'll actually have more focused time with them I'd bet.

Quit looking at everything as a down side. I'd bet your STBXW has been gone awhile she just didn't tell you.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> You aren't losing your kids you'll actually have more focused time with them I'd bet.
> 
> Quit looking at everything as a down side. I'd bet your STBXW has been gone awhile she just didn't tell you.


I think I am almost at the end of today's emotional breakdown it has been exhausting :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

I need to snap out of it like you all keep telling me, I should have final mediation in the next week or so just waiting for appointment confirmation. I do need her out the house and out my life.


----------



## Affaircare

MovingForward said:


> I cannot yet unfortunately she is financially dependent on me and until the Divorce QUADRO is done and cash released I cannot give her the money.
> 
> If I move out I still have to pay everything as is until finalized and then she has 90 days to vacate the residence still after that.



@MovingForward, 

I have a radical suggestion. What if SHE moved out now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she is wanting to tell the kids now and wants this done ASAP--so what happens if you two agree it's okay for her to pack her **** and move out tomorrow? I know you say she's financially dependent on you--well so for your own peace of mind, pay for her rent and let her go now. 

As I see it, who knows how long the Qualified Domestic Relations Order will take? 

So offer her that you'll actually pay her the agreed alimony and child support amounts now, and let her move. Then you'd be paying what you've already agreed to pay anyway (and begin to see what your new life will be like), she'll be out of your hair, and when the QDRO is finalized she'd get her half of the 401k. 

The advantage is that you could move on NOW rather than making excuses about why the two of you have to stay entangled with each other. Right now, all that staying together does is cause more heartache. Let her go! If you both agree you'll be paying $XXXX/mo, just give her the money now and let put in writing that you have an agreement and while the QDRO is in process you are okay with her moving--it's not abandonment. THE END. She's gone and you'll be able to copy a lot better!!


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I think I am almost at the end of today's emotional breakdown it has been exhausting :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:
> 
> I need to snap out of it like you all keep telling me, I should have final mediation in the next week or so just waiting for appointment confirmation. *I do need her out the house and out my life.*


Make no mistake if you can't limit contact and engagement this will just drag on. Yes, you have two kids to coparent. That's why it's so important to cut your ties. It doesn't bother her much but for you it's a killer. If you're smart you'll see this.

No contact except text/emails kids only. Never answer a phone call directly. @ 95% of her communication will not require a response. Pick up/drop offs are a 5 minute exercise with zero engagement. Do not accept breadcrumbs. All holidays, birthdays keep separate. She wanted out, for your own good stay as far away as you possible.


----------



## MovingForward

Affaircare said:


> @MovingForward,
> 
> I have a radical suggestion. What if SHE moved out now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she is wanting to tell the kids now and wants this done ASAP--so what happens if you two agree it's okay for her to pack her **** and move out tomorrow? I know you say she's financially dependent on you--well so for your own peace of mind, pay for her rent and let her go now.
> 
> As I see it, who knows how long the Qualified Domestic Relations Order will take?
> 
> So offer her that you'll actually pay her the agreed alimony and child support amounts now, and let her move. Then you'd be paying what you've already agreed to pay anyway (and begin to see what your new life will be like), she'll be out of your hair, and when the QDRO is finalized she'd get her half of the 401k.
> 
> The advantage is that you could move on NOW rather than making excuses about why the two of you have to stay entangled with each other. Right now, all that staying together does is cause more heartache. Let her go! If you both agree you'll be paying $XXXX/mo, just give her the money now and let put in writing that you have an agreement and while the QDRO is in process you are okay with her moving--it's not abandonment. THE END. She's gone and you'll be able to copy a lot better!!


I was trying to limit effect on the children, I am keeping house so they can keep some stability and there own rooms still, also I got a really good deal on buying her out the equity of the home on the agreement we kept everything financially as is until she found a place and put that limit at 90 days but she is hoping for much sooner and so am I, that way she moves into new place while children still stay in old house with me and then they start the transition of going to the new house once it is all settled and moved in. Once the settlement is approved 4-6 weeks hopefully the funds can be allocated to her and she will have her home deposit, she is supposed to be viewing some next week and there are only so many models she can look and plenty available so shouldn't take her long to find one and then 30 days or so to close.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Make no mistake if you can't limit contact and engagement this will just drag on. Yes, you have two kids to coparent. That's why it's so important to cut your ties. It doesn't bother her much but for you it's a killer. If you're smart you'll see this.
> 
> No contact except text/emails kids only. Never answer a phone call directly. @ 95% of her communication will not require a response. Pick up/drop offs are a 5 minute exercise with zero engagement. Do not accept breadcrumbs. All holidays, birthdays keep separate. She wanted out, for your own good stay as far away as you possible.


I do limit contact I am keeping myself out constantly the only contact we really have is kids and stuff to do with Divorce process i just need to learn how to accept it in my own mind so when we have to discuss divorce subjects such as telling the kids and sharing them for alternative holidays etc it doesn't overwhelms me with a surge of emotions and break me down like it has been. The only time I dread is weekends but usually I can get myself out the house for a large portion of it.


----------



## farsidejunky

Affaircare said:


> @MovingForward,
> 
> I have a radical suggestion. What if SHE moved out now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she is wanting to tell the kids now and wants this done ASAP--so what happens if you two agree it's okay for her to pack her **** and move out tomorrow? I know you say she's financially dependent on you--well so for your own peace of mind, pay for her rent and let her go now.
> 
> As I see it, who knows how long the Qualified Domestic Relations Order will take?
> 
> So offer her that you'll actually pay her the agreed alimony and child support amounts now, and let her move. Then you'd be paying what you've already agreed to pay anyway (and begin to see what your new life will be like), she'll be out of your hair, and when the QDRO is finalized she'd get her half of the 401k.
> 
> The advantage is that you could move on NOW rather than making excuses about why the two of you have to stay entangled with each other. Right now, all that staying together does is cause more heartache. Let her go! If you both agree you'll be paying $XXXX/mo, just give her the money now and let put in writing that you have an agreement and while the QDRO is in process you are okay with her moving--it's not abandonment. THE END. She's gone and you'll be able to copy a lot better!!


The only potential drawback to this is that I would bet a paycheck that reality will be harsh for her.

The last thing MF needs is her showing up in a trenchcoat and nothing else (ala Chuck) because she wants her stability back.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> The only potential drawback to this is that I would bet a paycheck that reality will be harsh for her.
> 
> *The last thing MF needs is her showing up in a trenchcoat and nothing else (ala Chuck)* because she wants her stability back.


LOL i wish some woman would show up in a trench cost with nothing else on though.

I was also slightly worried about her realizing that, she has never paid a Bill in our Marriage despite working 10 out of 12 years and does not really have an idea of how much she needs to survive so don't want her to figure out its not as financially secure as she would like and come back for more Alimony before we finalize.


----------



## MovingForward

Went to my IC last night and then straight for a group workout so 1 hour of mental rehabilitation and 1 hour of physical exhaustion and I felt much much better.

Still woke up in the early hours of the morning with a lot of stress and just ended up getting up early as I could not fall back asleep.

IC believes I am depressed and wants me to consider speaking to my Primary Physician about possibly getting some Anti-depressants for some short term assistance, I have no experience with that kind of thing so can anyone shed any light on there experience and Pro's/Con's, I am really not keen on it currently as hear all kinds of horror stories about prescription drug addition and sexual side effects etc I have no experience at all?


----------



## Thor

I am not a fan of Rx anti-depressants because of their side effects. But, if you need them, and nothing else works for you, then you need them.

However, there are a number of alternates to try first. Start with good nutrition, good sleep, plenty of vigorous exercise. Cut out the caffeine, alcohol, and other substances as much as possible.

Get the book "Mood Cure". There are several excellent natural supplements which have been proven in clinical studies to be as effective or even more effective than the Rx meds. To give you a quick-start, go to your grocery store or GNC type store and pick up some 5-HTP. Take 50mg mid afternoon, and another 50 mg mid evening. In a couple of days if you don't feel better, double the dose (but not more than that). Don't take 5-HTP if you are on Rx anti-depressants without consulting with your doc. 5-HTP is a natural amino acid. But, do get the book as it explains a lot of things and includes other things such as specific vitamins etc.

Not every supplement or Rx med works for everyone. You need to find what works for you.


----------



## MovingForward

Thor said:


> I am not a fan of Rx anti-depressants because of their side effects. But, if you need them, and nothing else works for you, then you need them.
> 
> However, there are a number of alternates to try first. Start with good nutrition, good sleep, plenty of vigorous exercise. Cut out the caffeine, alcohol, and other substances as much as possible.
> 
> Get the book "Mood Cure". There are several excellent natural supplements which have been proven in clinical studies to be as effective or even more effective than the Rx meds. To give you a quick-start, go to your grocery store or GNC type store and pick up some 5-HTP. Take 50mg mid afternoon, and another 50 mg mid evening. In a couple of days if you don't feel better, double the dose (but not more than that). Don't take 5-HTP if you are on Rx anti-depressants without consulting with your doc. 5-HTP is a natural amino acid. But, do get the book as it explains a lot of things and includes other things such as specific vitamins etc.
> 
> Not every supplement or Rx med works for everyone. You need to find what works for you.


I am not a fan either it seems like a way of avoiding dealing with the issue or a fake happy but made me think when he mentioned it as he seemed concerned and wants me to txt and email him my mood daily so he can track it which made me think I should be open to considering it. 

I am trying to eat as well as possible and exercise frequently but caffeine and alcohol are in excess for sure since I don't sleep well and then feel like I need a couple drinks just to loosen up in the evening and a few coffee's to keep me going through the dayt but will try to find another outlet.

I will read up on 5-HTP I do prefer something more natural, I had sleep issues in the past and take something called GABA which is a natural Anti- Anxiety and it worked well for a number of years but does not help currently.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> LOL i wish some woman would show up in a trench cost with nothing else on though.
> 
> I was also slightly worried about her realizing that, she has never paid a Bill in our Marriage despite working 10 out of 12 years and does not really have an idea of how much she needs to survive so don't want her to figure out its not as financially secure as she would like and come back for more Alimony before we finalize.


You need to get your mind off of your STBXW. She needs a nickname. Got any in mind?

I know it's hard getting over the fact she just can "stop loving you." As I stated... with what you 

told me about her mom... she had this (D after kids, $$ settlement) planned a LONG time ago.

She played the actress and part all too well. I've been D going on five years and I still say to

this day I love and always will the person my XW "was" long ago. The person she "is" today.....?...

No I do not love her.... TBH I don't even know who she is. I didn't know who she was around the time

of the D either. Separate the two.... they are VERY different. Reading assignment.... thread from here...

Unbe had to be "clubbed" over the head about three times before he "got it." He also wasted 3+

years in limbo. He had 3 DDays.... 3! But he finally got it. You'll get to see the Jedi Master

at work too.... Conrad. He is on his early posts. Below is the link..... and if you're not careful....

you could be another Unbe.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ong-sotry-prob-familar-need-some-support.html


----------



## MovingForward

I dont want to be anyone but me and happy lol.

I keep reading this post its the 180 basically but I prefer the wording - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html just to clarify nothing to do with getting her back just to get past.

I think I have been holding on to the past and the good and still kept the bad and current at bay so need to focus on negatives. 

I believe it was @farsidejunky who has commended on a thread somewhere about crazy being good in bed and its the truth I miss the sex a lot. 

Regarding Limbo and R there is no hope for that my proceedings are moving fast and I am pushing to get everything in line so there are no delays for our final submission, it looks like early June will be my freedom date.


----------



## Chuck71

Don't band-aid the pain, rip it off. Eventually you will have to face it. Hit it head on.

Nobody wants to walk through pain and torment, no Fing one. But it will... set you free. I swear by it.

I hit my pain head on.... thank God I did. The rest of the D wait for final was a "bike ride in the park"

compared to before the rabbit hole drop. Avoid alcohol ..... unless you can drink to laugh and 

"chill." If you drink to remember.... that is a dark path to the Dark Side.

After my DDay, I fasted with food two weeks and did not drink alcohol for that time either. I wanted to be

"in my zone." Then I resumed each....


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Don't band-aid the pain, rip it off. Eventually you will have to face it. Hit it head on.
> 
> Nobody wants to walk through pain and torment, no Fing one. But it will... set you free. I swear by it.
> 
> I hit my pain head on.... thank God I did. The rest of the D wait for final was a "bike ride in the park"
> 
> compared to before the rabbit hole drop. Avoid alcohol ..... unless you can drink to laugh and
> 
> "chill." If you drink to remember.... that is a dark path to the Dark Side.
> 
> After my DDay, I fasted with food two weeks and did not drink alcohol for that time either. I wanted to be
> 
> "in my zone." Then I resumed each....


Trying too. Problem with alcohol for me is I feel great at the time but the mornings are full of anxiety and depression if i cross over the slightly too many threshold.

I have a good night ahead of me but still feeling really down in the dumps, order the 5-HTP as recommended by @Thor and expecting it in on Tuesday so hoping that helps some with the downward swings.

Have a great weekend all


----------



## Chuck71

Drink for pleasure, not for pain. Huge difference.

If you wake up F'ed up.... try channeling your rage. Now THAT'S what I know way too much about.

Yay in a way, sad in another. Just the way it is....


----------



## turnera

After my mom died, and I was still crying daily after 6 months, my GP prescribed some Paxil for 6 months. She said that once you've been in a bad situation for an extended time, your body runs out of its own natural 'feel good' chemical. The Paxil is just for 'priming the pump' so to speak, to get your own chemicals flowing again. I had no side effects whatsoever; the only difference was that, after a few weeks, I stopped crying so much and stopped thinking about her so much. In other words, it just helped me get on with my life.


----------



## MovingForward

turnera said:


> After my mom died, and I was still crying daily after 6 months, my GP prescribed some Paxil for 6 months. She said that once you've been in a bad situation for an extended time, your body runs out of its own natural 'feel good' chemical. The Paxil is just for 'priming the pump' so to speak, to get your own chemicals flowing again. I had no side effects whatsoever; the only difference was that, after a few weeks, I stopped crying so much and stopped thinking about her so much. In other words, it just helped me get on with my life.


I guess that makes sense, I will see how the natural stuff works first and then if I can't snap out of it go talk about it again and see what the dr advices.

Thanks for the input.


----------



## MovingForward

Just need to rant.............

I just cant believe after 12 years its ending like this, no real conflict or arguing, plenty of good times, no abuse or cheating, no alcohol or drug addictions, no financial instability, she is in a better place financially and career wise now than she would have been due to contacts she made as a SAHM, regular holidays and trips away, I helped with everything around the house sometimes doing well over 50%, I never held her back or stopped her from doing anything so she has not missed out on things she had wanted to do, She 'needed' a new and bigger car, bigger house, more stuff to put in the house, etc. and we got it all and it ends with her speed divorcing me without any real discussion or chance to work on anything, she has rewritten history that 'we' have not been happy for a long long time and we need to move forward and put this all behind us

Weeks before we had the talk that started all this she was telling me and everyone else how happy she was!!!! It has just frustrated me so much and I really wish I understood the why's but I guess I will never get that answer and don't expect to but it still bugs me and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me if i am that disposable and worthless to her.

I was not perfect but am working on myself and over the last few months have really managed to come out of my shell again, more social and outgoing, less stressed and uptight, hobbies finally again and a group of friends I can go hang out with so not always just being who I was in the rut the financial provider and the guy who spent 100% of his time trying to do kid/family stuff and probably suffocating her.

I know logic tells me F her she is not worth anything if that is how she wants to do this and it doesn't matter that I can change because she would always find another problem but just the lack of emotion about it all which shows I did not really mean anything to her really really hurts mentally, I feel used and abused.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Regarding "natural" supplements... you are kidding yourself if you believe that works better or differently that clinically tested medicines.

First, all drugs that have passed clinical trials and have been approved moved from "alternative therapy" to real medicines. The only ones that ever remain are those that have not been proven to be effective.

Second, most "natural" supplements are NOT regulated and when tested, often are NOT what is in the label. Many times weeds or common grasses and flowers (Google lab testing - even national chains' natural remedies failed)

Third of the actually DO work - then they ARE drugs and as such, should be given in clinically tested dosages and regulated.

I have cancer and believe me, many many fall victim to scams in an attempt to find a miracle cure. People believe doctors and pharmaceutical companies are evil empires suppressing cheap cures. I am on forums with medical researchers and compassionate doctors working tirelessly to find treatments and cures for my disease and others. These hard working people are the ones to educate us and I have learned to trust them

Find out about antidepressants from a qualified doctor and share your concerns. They will tell you what's up and direct you to literature if you ask


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Satya

MovingForward said:


> I haven't managed to let go and stop loving her yet and was not ready or prepared to lose my family and be alone, my family and good friends are all in another country so rebuilding that aspect as well so it started extremely isolating but is getting better.
> 
> The financial impact for sure adds to the general stress of the situation and makes the prospect of a future M very unappealing. .
> 
> For her she must be relatively stress free, she gets the D she wants, a tons of cash, assets and a healthy 401k and a decent monthly payment for the next 12+ year with kids only 50% of the time while having her family near by to support her through this.


So start building up YOUR support network and next steps.


----------



## Satya

MovingForward said:


> Just need to rant.............
> 
> I just cant believe after 12 years its ending like this, no real conflict or arguing, plenty of good times, no abuse or cheating, no alcohol or drug addictions, no financial instability, she is in a better place financially and career wise now than she would have been due to contacts she made as a SAHM, regular holidays and trips away, I helped with everything around the house sometimes doing well over 50%, I never held her back or stopped her from doing anything so she has not missed out on things she had wanted to do, She 'needed' a new and bigger car, bigger house, more stuff to put in the house, etc. and we got it all and it ends with her speed divorcing me without any real discussion or chance to work on anything, she has rewritten history that 'we' have not been happy for a long long time and we need to move forward and put this all behind us
> 
> Weeks before we had the talk that started all this she was telling me and everyone else how happy she was!!!! It has just frustrated me so much and I really wish I understood the why's but I guess I will never get that answer and don't expect to but it still bugs me and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me if i am that disposable and worthless to her.
> 
> I was not perfect but am working on myself and over the last few months have really managed to come out of my shell again, more social and outgoing, less stressed and uptight, hobbies finally again and a group of friends I can go hang out with so not always just being who I was in the rut the financial provider and the guy who spent 100% of his time trying to do kid/family stuff and probably suffocating her.
> 
> I know logic tells me F her she is not worth anything if that is how she wants to do this and it doesn't matter that I can change because she would always find another problem but just the lack of emotion about it all which shows I did not really mean anything to her really really hurts mentally, I feel used and abused.


While I sympathize and understand how bloody frustrating all of that is, you are wasting tons of your mental energy on someone other than yourself. You need to change that and stop caring about her. She's not your problem or concern anymore. Re-channel your frustration into something productive, not mentally destructive.


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> While I sympathize and understand how bloody frustrating all of that is, you are wasting tons of your mental energy on someone other than yourself. You need to change that and stop caring about her. She's not your problem or concern anymore. Re-channel your frustration into something productive, not mentally destructive.


I know I keep telling myself the same I just cant get it out my mind.



Satya said:


> So start building up YOUR support network and next steps.


I have been it just takes time for them to become good friends versus acquaintances you hang out with from time to time, I guess no different to other relationships.


----------



## MovingForward

TheTruthHurts said:


> Regarding "natural" supplements... you are kidding yourself if you believe that works better or differently that clinically tested medicines.
> 
> First, all drugs that have passed clinical trials and have been approved moved from "alternative therapy" to real medicines. The only ones that ever remain are those that have not been proven to be effective.
> 
> Second, most "natural" supplements are NOT regulated and when tested, often are NOT what is in the label. Many times weeds or common grasses and flowers (Google lab testing - even national chains' natural remedies failed)
> 
> Third of the actually DO work - then they ARE drugs and as such, should be given in clinically tested dosages and regulated.
> 
> I have cancer and believe me, many many fall victim to scams in an attempt to find a miracle cure. People believe doctors and pharmaceutical companies are evil empires suppressing cheap cures. I am on forums with medical researchers and compassionate doctors working tirelessly to find treatments and cures for my disease and others. These hard working people are the ones to educate us and I have learned to trust them
> 
> Find out about antidepressants from a qualified doctor and share your concerns. They will tell you what's up and direct you to literature if you ask
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK thanks for the input @TheTruthHurts, I am just not sure I have always been very skeptical of the pharmaceutical industry, have you seen the documentary Prescription Thugs? it is very interesting and worth a viewing. I will be consulting a professional if things don't pick up though as I cannot continue with my head full of fog and the inability to focus or concentrate on anything.

I am sorry about the Cancer I wish you the best.


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> Just need to rant.............
> 
> I just cant believe after 12 years its ending like this, no real conflict or arguing, plenty of good times, no abuse or cheating, no alcohol or drug addictions, no financial instability, she is in a better place financially and career wise now than she would have been due to contacts she made as a SAHM, regular holidays and trips away, I helped with everything around the house sometimes doing well over 50%, I never held her back or stopped her from doing anything so she has not missed out on things she had wanted to do, She 'needed' a new and bigger car, bigger house, more stuff to put in the house, etc. and we got it all and it ends with her speed divorcing me without any real discussion or chance to work on anything, she has rewritten history that 'we' have not been happy for a long long time and we need to move forward and put this all behind us
> 
> Weeks before we had the talk that started all this she was telling me and everyone else how happy she was!!!! It has just frustrated me so much and I really wish I understood the why's but I guess I will never get that answer and don't expect to but it still bugs me and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me if i am that disposable and worthless to her.
> 
> I was not perfect but am working on myself and over the last few months have really managed to come out of my shell again, more social and outgoing, less stressed and uptight, hobbies finally again and a group of friends I can go hang out with so not always just being who I was in the rut the financial provider and the guy who spent 100% of his time trying to do kid/family stuff and probably suffocating her.
> 
> I know logic tells me F her she is not worth anything if that is how she wants to do this and it doesn't matter that I can change because she would always find another problem but just the lack of emotion about it all which shows I did not really mean anything to her really really hurts mentally, I feel used and abused.



Sorry. Try to have hope for good things in your future though. Your life is not over. People change, things end. Things begin though too.


----------



## MovingForward

sokillme said:


> Sorry. Try to have hope for good things in your future though. Your life is not over. People change, things end. Things begin though too.


Yep and ranting keeps us sane, bottling up emotions just makes it worse so best to get it off our chests.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> Just need to rant.............
> 
> 
> Weeks before we had the talk that started all this she was telling me and everyone else how happy she was!!!! It has just frustrated me so much and I really wish I understood the why's but I guess I will never get that answer and don't expect to but it still bugs me and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me if i am that disposable and worthless to her.


The only answer is you will truly never know or understand what she is thinking. This is what you have to accept and deal with. Sooner or later you will, the question becomes how long you want to beat your head against the wall to get to that place.


----------



## Satya

MovingForward said:


> I have been it just takes time for them to become good friends versus acquaintances you hang out with from time to time, I guess no different to other relationships.


True story - after my marriage of 8 years (relationship of 13 total) ended, I lost ALL of our mutual friends. That's because I left the home I'd known for the last 8 years and our mutual friends decided to stick by my ex H since he kept the home. I don't blame them at all or hold grudges, but it meant that HE had a complete support network and I had NOTHING when I moved back to my place of birth. I lost touch with all his family (blood>water). Again, it was a necessary part of moving on, so I didn't have a problem with disconnecting... I welcomed it.

I had to build a network of friends from scratch and I learned to find wholesome women friends who shared my value system. I'd met them just a few months before starting to post on TAM. They kicked my arse, made me go out and have FUN, with no pressure. We wouldn't go prowl for men, we just enjoyed each other's company, went out to listen to live music, poetry readings, anything going on. We learned to regain happiness.

We still meet for coffee, BBQs, help with each other's house cleaning, gardening, and generally support each other and reach out when we need help. When I met them we were all single, trying to repair our lives. Now, we are all in solid relationships and/or married again. I was at the lowest point of them all when I met them, now I am literally miles different than the woman I was.

It takes time, but if it's possible for me, it's possible for anyone.


----------



## MovingForward

Satya said:


> True story - after my marriage of 8 years (relationship of 13 total) ended, I lost ALL of our mutual friends. That's because I left the home I'd known for the last 8 years and our mutual friends decided to stick by my ex H since he kept the home. I don't blame them at all or hold grudges, but it meant that HE had a complete support network and I had NOTHING when I moved back to my place of birth. I lost touch with all his family (blood>water). Again, it was a necessary part of moving on, so I didn't have a problem with disconnecting... I welcomed it.
> 
> I had to build a network of friends from scratch and I learned to find wholesome women friends who shared my value system. I'd met them just a few months before starting to post on TAM. They kicked my arse, made me go out and have FUN, with no pressure. We wouldn't go prowl for men, we just enjoyed each other's company, went out to listen to live music, poetry readings, anything going on. We learned to regain happiness.
> 
> We still meet for coffee, BBQs, help with each other's house cleaning, gardening, and generally support each other and reach out when we need help. When I met them we were all single, trying to repair our lives. Now, we are all in solid relationships and/or married again. I was at the lowest point of them all when I met them, now I am literally miles different than the woman I was.
> 
> It takes time, but if it's possible for me, it's possible for anyone.


Thanks @Satya I am glad everything worked out for you and i hope in time i get there in time just got to get myself out of this depressive mindset.


----------



## FeministInPink

Satya said:


> True story - after my marriage of 8 years (relationship of 13 total) ended, I lost ALL of our mutual friends. That's because I left the home I'd known for the last 8 years and our mutual friends decided to stick by my ex H since he kept the home. I don't blame them at all or hold grudges, but it meant that HE had a complete support network and I had NOTHING when I moved back to my place of birth. I lost touch with all his family (blood>water). Again, it was a necessary part of moving on, so I didn't have a problem with disconnecting... I welcomed it.
> 
> I had to build a network of friends from scratch and I learned to find wholesome women friends who shared my value system. I'd met them just a few months before starting to post on TAM. They kicked my arse, made me go out and have FUN, with no pressure. We wouldn't go prowl for men, we just enjoyed each other's company, went out to listen to live music, poetry readings, anything going on. We learned to regain happiness.
> 
> We still meet for coffee, BBQs, help with each other's house cleaning, gardening, and generally support each other and reach out when we need help. When I met them we were all single, trying to repair our lives. Now, we are all in solid relationships and/or married again. I was at the lowest point of them all when I met them, now I am literally miles different than the woman I was.
> 
> It takes time, but if it's possible for me, it's possible for anyone.


I just want to say, @MovingForward, this was my experience as well. I lost all our mutual friends, and all the friends who were mine were very far away geographically. I had to do the same thing as @Satya.

You have to actively seek out the things that make you happy, and seek the things that will heal you. It's different for everyone. But it won't happen if you mope around feeling sorry for yourself.

This is what I did. Every time I started feeling bad for myself and wanted to throw a pity party and wallow in my sadness, I reminded myself of all the reasons why this split was good for me and all the ways he was a bad husband and bad for me. For a long time, I had a letter which I carried around (a letter that I wrote to myself for this express purpose), and I would read it out loud to myself whenever I started to feel bad. It helped, a LOT. Eventually, I didn't need the letter because I had memorized it. It helped re-write the synapses in my brain, I think. Pretty soon, when I started to feel back about things, my brain, without thinking about it, automatically started reading the letter to me in my head.

Basically, your rational, logical brain can talk down your emotional self... the emotions will eventually go away. That's the thing about emotions, they always go away if you refuse to feed them. A couple in love will lose that feeling of love if you don't feed it, because it's an emotion. Anger fades over time if you refuse to stoke the fire. Pain goes away if you stop poking at the injury. 

So stop pouring salt in your wound, and find the things that bring you joy.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> I just want to say, @MovingForward, this was my experience as well. I lost all our mutual friends, and all the friends who were mine were very far away geographically. I had to do the same thing as @Satya.
> 
> You have to actively seek out the things that make you happy, and seek the things that will heal you. It's different for everyone. But it won't happen if you mope around feeling sorry for yourself.
> 
> This is what I did. Every time I started feeling bad for myself and wanted to throw a pity party and wallow in my sadness, I reminded myself of all the reasons why this split was good for me and all the ways he was a bad husband and bad for me. For a long time, I had a letter which I carried around (a letter that I wrote to myself for this express purpose), and I would read it out loud to myself whenever I started to feel bad. It helped, a LOT. Eventually, I didn't need the letter because I had memorized it. It helped re-write the synapses in my brain, I think. Pretty soon, when I started to feel back about things, my brain, without thinking about it, automatically started reading the letter to me in my head.
> 
> Basically, your rational, logical brain can talk down your emotional self... the emotions will eventually go away. That's the thing about emotions, they always go away if you refuse to feed them. A couple in love will lose that feeling of love if you don't feed it, because it's an emotion. Anger fades over time if you refuse to stoke the fire. Pain goes away if you stop poking at the injury.
> 
> So stop pouring salt in your wound, and find the things that bring you joy.


It will be same for me also as all our mutual friends are really her friends and the people i spoke too were her friends husbands, I have found some new people one group (all Divorced guys just by chance not an official group) have no common contacts and another guy I have been hanging out with knows some common people but is more off an acquaintance to them and holds no allegiance to anyone me or my W know. 

The thing is I am out doing stuff constantly but once I am alone and have a moment to think is when it all goes down hill again for me I spend very little time at the house at all anymore. 

How did you deal with the loneliness aspect and this is going to sound weird but a hard part for me is not being connected to anyone and I dont mean as in Friends but I really miss the cuddling on the couch, hugs when coming home. kissing and just feeling physically close to someone and knowing I am loved.


----------



## JohnA

"all his/her friends" is very common. What does that tell you moving forward?


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> It will be same for me also as all our mutual friends are really her friends and the people i spoke too were her friends husbands, I have found some new people one group (all Divorced guys just by chance not an official group) have no common contacts and another guy I have been hanging out with knows some common people but is more off an acquaintance to them and holds no allegiance to anyone me or my W know.
> 
> The thing is I am out doing stuff constantly but once I am alone and have a moment to think is when it all goes down hill again for me I spend very little time at the house at all anymore.
> 
> How did you deal with the loneliness aspect and this is going to sound weird but a hard part for me is not being connected to anyone and I dont mean as in Friends but I really miss the cuddling on the couch, hugs when coming home. kissing and just feeling physically close to someone and knowing I am loved.


The lack of kisses, hugs, and cuddling you just have to learn to deal with, I guess. By the end of my marriage, there was absolutely no physical affection whatsoever, so I had become used to going without, even though it was something I craved. I think what got me through was the hope that once I got out of my marriage, I would find someone who would give me as many hugs, kisses, and cuddles as I could handle. Inside my marriage, there was no hope. The freedom of being out of my marriage afforded me a great deal of hope and possibility for the future.

I also had my cats, who cuddled me all the time. They weren't super cuddly before, but once my XH moved out, I believe that they sensed I needed it, and became super cuddly.

In regards to friends and such, I started making plans every single evening and on weekends, despite the fact that I'm an introvert and need all that time to myself. I did a combination of group activities (found mostly through MeetUp), and solo activities so that I could get my alone time but be put of the house. It will be a little harder for you with the kids, but you can schedule around when you have them. 

I found keeping busy helped me a lot. I met SO many new people, many of whom I only saw at that one activity, and then never saw again. It provided new people to talk to... I told some people about my divorce and my current situation, but with some people I just kept it light. I would estimate that I met and talked with more than a hundred new people during this time, and only a few of them became friends. Some were short-term friendships, only lasting a few months, but some have become very dear friends of mine. Nothing happened that caused the short friendships to fizzle, sometimes people drift in and out of your life. Most of the short friendships were women like myself, going through a divorce and needing a friend in the same boat, and when we no longer needed one another, we just drifted apart because we had nothing else in common to sustain the friendship. It happens. Making new friends is kind of like dating. Some will stick, and others won't.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> * I think what got me through was the hope that once I got out of my marriage, I would find someone who would give me as many hugs, kisses, and cuddles as I could handle.Inside my marriage, there was no hope. The freedom of being out of my marriage afforded me a great deal of hope and possibility for the future.*
> 
> I Like that it makes it sound good i am not getting what I want/need know so that is something I can look forward to.
> 
> 
> *In regards to friends and such, I started making plans every single evening and on weekends, despite the fact that I'm an introvert and need all that time to myself. I did a combination of group activities (found mostly through MeetUp), and solo activities so that I could get my alone time but be put of the house. It will be a little harder for you with the kids, but you can schedule around when you have them. *
> 
> This is what I have been doing but its the times I am alone which I still cant deal with yet.
> 
> *Making new friends is kind of like dating. Some will stick, and others won't.*
> 
> Isn't that the truth all require a time investment which I am starting to give.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> "all his/her friends" is very common. What does that tell you moving forward?


Form my own Friendships and interests as an individual not as a couple


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> It will be same for me also as all our mutual friends are really her friends and the people i spoke too were her friends husbands, I have found some new people one group (all Divorced guys just by chance not an official group) have no common contacts and another guy I have been hanging out with knows some common people but is more off an acquaintance to them and holds no allegiance to anyone me or my W know.
> 
> The thing is I am out doing stuff constantly but once I am alone and have a moment to think is when it all goes down hill again for me I spend very little time at the house at all anymore.
> 
> How did you deal with the loneliness aspect and this is going to sound weird but a hard part for me is not being connected to anyone and I dont mean as in Friends but I really miss the cuddling on the couch, hugs when coming home. kissing and just feeling physically close to someone and knowing I am loved.


This is one of those things you need to work and and you have been avoiding and that is getting comfortable with yourself. Staying out of the house doing stuff helps but it's not a cure all. Your allowing yourself to go downhill because when alone, your focusing on the "being alone". We all go thru this stage to varying degrees I think as you relearn single life. 

Now as much as I enjoy the company of another and miss certain aspects of a relationship I'm not sure if I want to share a home again. I like it decorated the way I got it, I like leaving my clothes in a pile instead of folded, watching what I want to watch etc etc. Embrace single life, don't dread it. 

Another thing for you to ponder and it's more of a long range idea but once the divorce is final you might want to consider moving to a different house. My lawyer suggested this to me early in my mess but I told him I was keeping the house. I had good equity, good location etc, it made financial sense at the time to keep it. Later she wanted the house and I jumped at the chance to leave mainly because it was much bigger than I needed and it was also a constant reminder of my marriage. I could take a trip down memory lane everytime I walked into any room. It was our house, not mine or hers. When I moved I could leave the ghosts of the marriage at the old home so to speak. 

I don't even like the place I'm living in that much haha but it's mine, not hers or ours. It was a fresh start and new memories to make and it did me a great deal of good to move just like my lawyer said. 

Get a dog for cuddling >


----------



## ReturntoZero

I remember the first time after she moved out when I watched a baseball game - a really good one - from beginning to end.

It felt so friggin' fantastic.

No one coming downstairs to see what I wasn't doing. The hair on the back of my neck actually would stand on end while I'd brace for the correction/nagging.

Screw that.

She's back now. I can watch any show I want. I can walk the dog because I want to. Go to a gym because it's my time.

Embrace your life - and live it.

You'll be surprised how attractive a man like this becomes.

The man with the plan.

You used to be him. In fact, you WERE him when you attracted her.

What pushed her away was the pathetic sycophantic wimp you became.

The domesticated chump who lived to put a smile on her face - and got the opposite result.

You'll actually begin to feel your testicles hanging again. Your tail won't be between your legs.

You'll be chasing someone else's.


----------



## JohnA

The other side of the coin of forming your own circle of friends, would they be a friend of the marriage first if you met someone. Don't get buddies with players and individuals that are hostile to a marriage.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> The other side of the coin of forming your own circle of friends, would they be a friend of the marriage first if you met someone. Don't get buddies with players and individuals that are hostile to a marriage.


JohnA I will never be getting married again lol I think I can confidently say that at this point.


----------



## MovingForward

ReturntoZero said:


> I remember the first time after she moved out when I watched a baseball game - a really good one - from beginning to end.
> 
> It felt so friggin' fantastic.
> 
> No one coming downstairs to see what I wasn't doing. The hair on the back of my neck actually would stand on end while I'd brace for the correction/nagging.
> 
> Screw that.
> 
> She's back now. I can watch any show I want. I can walk the dog because I want to. Go to a gym because it's my time.
> 
> Embrace your life - and live it.
> 
> You'll be surprised how attractive a man like this becomes.
> 
> The man with the plan.
> 
> You used to be him. In fact, you WERE him when you attracted her.
> 
> What pushed her away was the pathetic sycophantic wimp you became.
> 
> The domesticated chump who lived to put a smile on her face - and got the opposite result.
> 
> You'll actually begin to feel your testicles hanging again. Your tail won't be between your legs.
> 
> You'll be chasing someone else's.


Your W came back? I was a compete different person to who she met and it was like she pushed me into that and I allowed it but she did not like the end result.


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> This is one of those things you need to work and and you have been avoiding and that is getting comfortable with yourself. Staying out of the house doing stuff helps but it's not a cure all. Your allowing yourself to go downhill because when alone, your focusing on the "being alone". We all go thru this stage to varying degrees I think as you relearn single life.
> 
> Now as much as I enjoy the company of another and miss certain aspects of a relationship I'm not sure if I want to share a home again. I like it decorated the way I got it, I like leaving my clothes in a pile instead of folded, watching what I want to watch etc etc. Embrace single life, don't dread it.
> 
> Another thing for you to ponder and it's more of a long range idea but once the divorce is final you might want to consider moving to a different house. My lawyer suggested this to me early in my mess but I told him I was keeping the house. I had good equity, good location etc, it made financial sense at the time to keep it. Later she wanted the house and I jumped at the chance to leave mainly because it was much bigger than I needed and it was also a constant reminder of my marriage. I could take a trip down memory lane everytime I walked into any room. It was our house, not mine or hers. When I moved I could leave the ghosts of the marriage at the old home so to speak.
> 
> I don't even like the place I'm living in that much haha but it's mine, not hers or ours. It was a fresh start and new memories to make and it did me a great deal of good to move just like my lawyer said.
> 
> Get a dog for cuddling


Yes I do need to try and think of it as a positive versus a negative.

I hope I don't feel like that I have been in current house only a couple years and I think once she moves her stuff out and I repaint and finish some projects I have wanted to do for some time it will feel like mine. I have a good location, children's friends on street, good equity and I have had pretty much everything fixed and is new and nice so would be shame to restart again if it doesn't feel good after.


----------



## Marc878

ReturntoZero said:


> I remember the first time after she moved out when I watched a baseball game - a really good one - from beginning to end.
> 
> It felt so friggin' fantastic.
> 
> No one coming downstairs to see what I wasn't doing. The hair on the back of my neck actually would stand on end while I'd brace for the correction/nagging.
> 
> Screw that.
> 
> She's back now. I can watch any show I want. I can walk the dog because I want to. Go to a gym because it's my time.
> 
> Embrace your life - and live it.
> 
> You'll be surprised how attractive a man like this becomes.
> 
> The man with the plan.
> 
> You used to be him. In fact, you WERE him when you attracted her.
> 
> What pushed her away was the pathetic sycophantic wimp you became.
> 
> The domesticated chump who lived to put a smile on her face - and got the opposite result.
> 
> You'll actually begin to feel your testicles hanging again. Your tail won't be between your legs.
> 
> You'll be chasing someone else's.


IN essence go your own way!!!!!!


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> Your W came back? I was a compete different person to who she met and it was like she pushed me into that and I allowed it but she did not like the end result.


Mine came back after I regained my manhood.


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> Yes I do need to try and think of it as a positive versus a negative.
> 
> I hope I don't feel like that I have been in current house only a couple years and I think once she moves her stuff out and I repaint and finish some projects I have wanted to do for some time it will feel like mine. I have a good location, children's friends on street, good equity and I have had pretty much everything fixed and is new and nice so would be shame to restart again if it doesn't feel good after.


Everything she takes, buy something more expensive and better in it's place.

For example, when we bought our house, I bucked up for my wife to have a "music room"

Steinway piano, leather furniture, daybed, oriental rug, etc. Her custom paint colors, fixtures, and art.

When she moved out, she took that furniture and left the room empty.

I immediately went to a local establishment that makes custom pool tables to order.

My custom made mahogany pool table with the faceplate that says, "Manufactured specifically for 'ReturnToZero'" on March 12, 2012 now sits in that room

When she brought back her piano, it went to a "less prominent" location in the house.


----------



## MovingForward

ReturntoZero said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your W came back? I was a compete different person to who she met and it was like she pushed me into that and I allowed it but she did not like the end result.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine came back after I regained my manhood.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure my wife is done regardless so not coming back I just have to keep plugging along Move forward.


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## loveisblind69

Mediation really works. Everything will go well, don't worry.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your W came back? I was a compete different person to who she met and it was like she pushed me into that and I allowed it but she did not like the end result.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine came back after I regained my manhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretty sure my wife is done regardless so not coming back I just have to keep plugging along Move forward.
Click to expand...

Your problem is and has been you. You keep yourself in the victim "woe is me mode". It's to scary for you to think about standing up for yourself so you're more comfortable doing nothing. Letting life take you where it wants.

Why?


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Just need to rant.............
> 
> I just cant believe after 12 years its ending like this, no real conflict or arguing, plenty of good times, no abuse or cheating, no alcohol or drug addictions, no financial instability, she is in a better place financially and career wise now than she would have been due to contacts she made as a SAHM, regular holidays and trips away, I helped with everything around the house sometimes doing well over 50%, I never held her back or stopped her from doing anything so she has not missed out on things she had wanted to do, She 'needed' a new and bigger car, bigger house, more stuff to put in the house, etc. and we got it all and it ends with her speed divorcing me without any real discussion or chance to work on anything, she has rewritten history that 'we' have not been happy for a long long time and we need to move forward and put this all behind us
> 
> Weeks before we had the talk that started all this she was telling me and everyone else how happy she was!!!! It has just frustrated me so much and I really wish I understood the why's but I guess I will never get that answer and don't expect to but it still bugs me and makes me feel like there is something wrong with me if i am that disposable and worthless to her.
> 
> I was not perfect but am working on myself and over the last few months have really managed to come out of my shell again, more social and outgoing, less stressed and uptight, hobbies finally again and a group of friends I can go hang out with so not always just being who I was in the rut the financial provider and the guy who spent 100% of his time trying to do kid/family stuff and probably suffocating her.
> 
> I know logic tells me F her she is not worth anything if that is how she wants to do this and it doesn't matter that I can change because she would always find another problem but just the lack of emotion about it all which shows I did not really mean anything to her really really hurts mentally, I feel used and abused.


I was where you were when you posted this... I can relate 110% BUT.... F'ing STOP IT

Her actions say NOTHING about you

Her actions say nothing about her children

Her actions say EVERYTHING about HER....

Again.... I understand your hurt, I swear I do. But let's wrap the pity party up and move forward.

A couple posters, me included, are about to go "all Conrad" on you.

It's not necessarily a bad thing though.....


----------



## Chuck71

ReturntoZero said:


> I remember the first time after she moved out when I watched a baseball game - a really good one - from beginning to end.
> 
> It felt so friggin' fantastic.
> 
> No one coming downstairs to see what I wasn't doing. The hair on the back of my neck actually would stand on end while I'd brace for the correction/nagging.
> 
> Screw that.
> 
> She's back now. I can watch any show I want. I can walk the dog because I want to. Go to a gym because it's my time.
> 
> Embrace your life - and live it.
> 
> You'll be surprised how attractive a man like this becomes.
> 
> The man with the plan.
> 
> You used to be him. In fact, you WERE him when you attracted her.
> 
> What pushed her away was the pathetic sycophantic wimp you became.
> 
> The domesticated chump who lived to put a smile on her face - and got the opposite result.
> 
> You'll actually begin to feel your testicles hanging again. Your tail won't be between your legs.
> 
> You'll be chasing someone else's.


This poster actually pulled this example from DeMello's Awareness.

MF have you started reading it yet?


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> Your W came back? I was a compete different person to who she met and it was like she pushed me into that and I allowed it but she did not like the end result.


She started making noise about coming back about 72 hours after I was completely done with her.


----------



## MovingForward

Not much has been happening recently apart from my W has become much more distant and cold.

We have hopefully our final Mediation today so hoping it goes well as she is starting to turn on me and become hostile when she has been friendly and civil up to this point, I am sure that happens in all D cases though they keep you sweet and then start to stab you in the back when they can.


----------



## MovingForward

Final Mediation done and settle agreement finalized, did not get exactly what i wanted but it could have been worse only got 3 years of financial pain and then should be able to move on it could have been 5-6 so i guess i can count myself lucky or as lucky as you can be when you start again with nothing.

She has acted like an entire Beetch this entire process and when I thought she was being reasonable I think I was still blinded by the fact I still loved her, at this time I cannot wait to see the back of her and will have zero issues not speaking to her ever again, I can say I actually hate her at this moment.

She threatened me, walk out, cussed me out non stop, the only good that came from it was she is moving out June 1st so I don't have to look at her horrible face and be around her fake and toxic personality.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Final Mediation done and settle agreement finalized, did not get exactly what i wanted but it could have been worse only got 3 years of financial pain and then should be able to move on it could have been 5-6 so i guess i can count myself lucky or as lucky as you can be when you start again with nothing.
> 
> She has acted like an entire Beetch this entire process and when I thought she was being reasonable I think I was still blinded by the fact I still loved her, at this time I cannot wait to see the back of her and will have zero issues not speaking to her ever again, I can say I actually hate her at this moment.
> 
> She threatened me, walk out, cussed me out non stop, the only good that came from it was she is moving out June 1st so I don't have to look at her horrible face and be around her fake and toxic personality.


STOP caring how she feels.

Cool
Firm
Dispassionate
(those are Conrad's advice.... I added this one) IDGAF

Most important.... what is the children split? How often do you have them?

You didn't mention it so I am bracing for a bad response.....


----------



## MovingForward

@chuck71 I don't care how she feels I'm just angry that I have to deal with and pay such a beach. 

Custody went well got a little under 50/50, every mon/tues overnight and every other Friday and Saturday and then Sunday until 6pm. 

Seen so many new sides of her, unfortunately in my state she can move i. With someone and I still have to pay alimony only marriage stops it and she flipped when I suggested it stops when she moves in with someone but mediator told me no judge would enforce it so no point discussing here.

So we have she is moving out so she can ' move on' 3 months to meet new partners and anger at though of losing alimony if she moves in with someone and instead of buying a house she is renting an apartment for 6 months I would guess most people are right and she has been cheating and got it all planned out and I get the pleasure of financing the entire transition for them.


----------



## MovingForward

Upside is i am free from her and can start a new life and find new happiness.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> @chuck71 I don't care how she feels I'm just angry that I have to deal with and pay such a beach.
> 
> Custody went well got a little under 50/50, every mon/tues overnight and every other Friday and Saturday and then Sunday until 6pm.
> 
> *Seen so many new sides of her, unfortunately in my state she can move i. With someone and I still have to pay alimony only marriage stops it and she flipped when I suggested it stops when she moves in with someone but mediator told me no judge would enforce it so no point discussing here.*
> 
> So we have she is moving out so she can ' move on' 3 months to meet new partners and anger at though of losing alimony if she moves in with someone and instead of buying a house she is renting an apartment for 6 months I would guess most people are right and she has been cheating and got it all planned out and I get the pleasure of financing the entire transition for them.


Getting wiser all the time. It hasn't all unfolded yet but it will very soon. Better start detaching right away


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Upside is i am free from her and can start a new life and find new happiness.


Was that from rationalism or emotion?

Either way brother.... I understand. It's okay to hurt. It's okay to mourn. Been there.....

Just don't let it encompass you....


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Was that from rationalism or emotion?
> 
> Either way brother.... I understand. It's okay to hurt. It's okay to mourn. Been there.....
> 
> Just don't let it encompass you....


Just going to be glad to be out of this situation it is awful and suffocating, I'm technically not losing anyone as they are already absent and think nothing of me. 

She was trying to be nothing but nice all last night as we had a school event with my Daughter but I could not engage with her she wanted me to sit with her to 'share' the moment' to sit arm in arm and throughout the evening kept reaching out to hold my arm or put her arm around be but I was not allowing it, she was apologizing telling me she was just overwhelmed etc. but some who cannot even talk to me, someone who can turn on me and threaten me like that, someone who thinks its acceptable to treat someone who they apparently 'care about so much' is not someone I want in my life.

She still thinks we are going to be a family to which I keep trying to explain the entire purpose of Divorce is to separate us as a family so we can start new families with other people

Some scary and sad times ahead I am sure but just got to keep looking forward and not back, I have a great IC who emails me regularly and I joined a support group this week so hoping I will be OK and on the path to the new future, whatever that is. 

I just cant wait until she is out the house for good.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Getting wiser all the time. It hasn't all unfolded yet but it will very soon. Better start detaching right away


Already happening I have cared way too much about her feelings and opinions throughout, even my IC told me '*who cares what she thinks or says, it's not your problem anymore you have to look after you'*

I hope she does not make the next 3 weeks too difficult.


----------



## MovingForward

Did not sleep all that well and woke up about 2am and the first thing I saw was a 10 year anniversary thing i had made for her on the wall so i took that down and started working though the house taking down any pictures of us together and gifts and collages i had made and boxing them up, a few more still but I need to borrow an oversized ladder to get to them. The amount of Family pictures and items with all our names on in our house is crazy there will be nothing left on the walls by the time i finish.

It's time to start deleting history.


----------



## farsidejunky

I like your therapist. 

Don't think of this time as deleting memories, because there is likely plenty to fondly remember as well. Rather, think of it as the last steps in closing a chapter in your life story that must be done before beginning the next chapter.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> I like your therapist.
> 
> Don't think of this time as deleting memories, because there is likely plenty to fondly remember as well. Rather, think of it as the last steps in closing a chapter in your life story that must be done before beginning the next chapter.


I don't know the way I currently feel I just want to forget it ever happened.


----------



## Marc878

IMO it's therapeutic to do the "out with the old and in with the new"

Make sure you get just compensation if she gets all the furniture, etc. 

I'd send all the photos, wedding, etc with her. You don't need reminders hanging around.


----------



## Thor

It was cathartic to me when I deleted all photos of my xw off of my social media.

I have kept a wedding picture album, and I have a couple of family photos on display which she happens to be in but which are great photos of the kids when younger. The wedding photos are in with a pile of other family heirloom stuff, not on display. I have gotten rid of some things she gave me which are of little monetary or practical value.

It is an important part of the process to break the ties to the past. It doesn't mean we reject the good memories. Just like past jobs, high school, and other things we have moved on from, the ex-spouse needs to be taken out of our daily view so we can move into the future.


----------



## FeministInPink

I got so much out of stuffing my wedding dress in the rubbish bin. It felt great. My best friend was trying to convince me to donate it, and I was like, no way. First off, I will have to pay to have it repaired and cleaned before I can donate it, and at the time that was cash that I did not have to waste, and second, this dress has so much bad juju all over it, and third, I WANT TO STUFF IT IN THE RUBBISH BIN AND PUT OTHER TRASH ON TOP OF IT!

I had a much harder time trashing my wedding and honeymoon albums, because they weren't just albums, they were very detailed scrapbooks that I had invested a great many hours into making. They were beautiful books. But I finally convinced myself to toss them, and I don't regret it.

Getting rid of shared stuff, and gifts he gave me, was very therapeutic. There's no need to hang on to those mementos when it's over. Keeping them is just depressing.


----------



## MovingForward

Thor said:


> It was cathartic to me when I deleted all photos of my xw off of my social media.
> 
> It is an important part of the process to break the ties to the past. It doesn't mean we reject the good memories. Just like past jobs, high school, and other things we have moved on from, the ex-spouse needs to be taken out of our daily view so we can move into the future.





FeministInPink said:


> !
> I had a much harder time trashing my wedding and honeymoon albums, because they weren't just albums, they were very detailed scrapbooks that I had invested a great many hours into making. They were beautiful books. But I finally convinced myself to toss them, and I don't regret it.
> 
> Getting rid of shared stuff, and gifts he gave me, was very therapeutic. There's no need to hang on to those mementos when it's over. Keeping them is just depressing.


Yes I am very sentimental and a little bit of a hoarder so really don't like throwing anything away so i think I will box it all up and let her deal with it all, not sure if i would be able to throw it out myself.

Same with pics on social media so many of my pics are family pics of us with the kids so going to have to figure out what to do with them all.


----------



## EasyPartner

MovingForward said:


> Just going to be glad to be out of this situation it is awful and suffocating, I'm technically not losing anyone as they are already absent and think nothing of me.
> 
> She was trying to be nothing but nice all last night as we had a school event with my Daughter but I could not engage with her she wanted me to sit with her to 'share' the moment' to sit arm in arm and throughout the evening kept reaching out to hold my arm or put her arm around be but I was not allowing it, she was apologizing telling me she was just overwhelmed etc. but some who cannot even talk to me, someone who can turn on me and threaten me like that, someone who thinks its acceptable to treat someone who they apparently 'care about so much' is not someone I want in my life.
> 
> She still thinks we are going to be a family to which I keep trying to explain the entire purpose of Divorce is to separate us as a family so we can start new families with other people
> 
> Some scary and sad times ahead I am sure but just got to keep looking forward and not back, I have a great IC who emails me regularly and I joined a support group this week so hoping I will be OK and on the path to the new future, whatever that is.
> 
> I just cant wait until she is out the house for good.


I really understand how you feel. I know it hurts right now. It's perfectly normal. She'll behave like a completely different person now. Sadly, that appears to be normal too, since she's torn between guilt and the rewritten history of your time together.

Your healing WILL begin once she's out of the house - impossible before that. Couple of rough months ahead of you but one thing is paramount: KEEP YOUR COOL. Your IC appears to be a good one so listen to him/her.

Lots of men and women around here have been in the same situation and got their lives back on track very well and fairly soon. Stay the course brother.

EP


----------



## MovingForward

EasyPartner said:


> I really understand how you feel Canada. I know it hurts right now. It's perfectly normal. She'll behave like a completely different person now. Sadly, that appears to be normal too, since she's torn between guilt and the rewritten history of your time together.
> 
> Your healing WILL begin once she's out of the house - impossible before that. Couple of rough months ahead of you but one thing is paramount: KEEP YOUR COOL. Your IC appears to be a good one so listen to him/her.
> 
> Lots of men and women around here have been in the same situation and got their lives back on track very well and fairly soon. Stay the course brother.
> 
> EP


Thanks for the support, i really wish children weren't caught in the middle though.

I know i will be fine eventually it just takes time for all attachments and pain to go away, there is a lot of changes going to be made over the next few months and just need to keep positive. 

Need to figure out my new financial situation after Alimony and CS kick in next month and re budget everything.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

She continues to want to cake eat. Dont let her. You're doing good.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> She continues to want to cake eat. Dont let her. You're doing good.


Thanks just have to be civil for 3 more weeks and she is gone and we start parenting plan and can pretty much cut contact, then 2 weeks after she moves she takes the kids to her parents for 3 weeks so will hopefully give me some time to grieve the loss of family and the marriage and i guess get used to being in the house by myself.

Very apprehensive about it all but i can't change anything so just need to get on with it.

I still have a lot of emotions flying all over the place it is weird, I probably cry at least once a day sometimes up to 3 times and it just comes on out of nowhere but they are not all day depressions anymore just a quick 10 minute cry and I pick myself back up


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Just going to be glad to be out of this situation it is awful and suffocating, I'm technically not losing anyone as they are already absent and think nothing of me.
> 
> She was trying to be nothing but nice all last night as we had a school event with my Daughter but I could not engage with her she wanted me to sit with her to 'share' the moment' to sit arm in arm and throughout the evening kept reaching out to hold my arm or put her arm around be but I was not allowing it, she was apologizing telling me she was just overwhelmed etc. but some who cannot even talk to me, someone who can turn on me and threaten me like that, someone who thinks its acceptable to treat someone who they apparently 'care about so much' is not someone I want in my life.
> 
> She still thinks we are going to be a family to which I keep trying to explain the entire purpose of Divorce is to separate us as a family so we can start new families with other people
> 
> Some scary and sad times ahead I am sure but just got to keep looking forward and not back, I have a great IC who emails me regularly and I joined a support group this week so hoping I will be OK and on the path to the new future, whatever that is.
> 
> I just cant wait until she is out the house for good.


She wants to be your friend..... VERY typical. That way when she parades the OM around,

she won't feel guilty. By wanting you to still be a family, she is setting everything up to blame you

for everything and make her appear pristine by trying to salvage something of a family.

Very common actions..... we see it often. She fired you as her H, therefore she no longer gets

the perks of you being her H.


----------



## Steve1000

MovingForward said:


> Thanks just have to be civil for 3 more weeks and she is gone and we start parenting plan and can pretty much cut contact, then 2 weeks after she moves she takes the kids to her parents for 3 weeks so will hopefully give me some time to grieve the loss of family and the marriage and i guess get used to being in the house by myself.


Prepare yourself for the first ten minutes of being alone in the house as it will be eerily quiet. Remind yourself that this will pass and you will be happy again some day. Then go shopping for the home theater system that you've always dreamed of.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> She wants to be your friend..... VERY typical. That way when she parades the OM around,
> 
> she won't feel guilty. By wanting you to still be a family, she is setting everything up to blame you
> 
> for everything and make her appear pristine by trying to salvage something of a family.
> 
> Very common actions..... we see it often. She fired you as her H, therefore she no longer gets
> 
> the perks of you being her H.


Hoping I am not involved in any of the BS and she does not bring anyone around.

The emotional roller coaster continues I had no much anger yesterday today I am just depressed again, dreading telling my Children and seeing there reaction and just hate that I am not going to see them daily.


----------



## EasyPartner

MovingForward said:


> Hoping I am not involved in any of the BS and she does not bring anyone around.
> 
> The emotional roller coaster continues I had no much anger yesterday today I am just depressed again, dreading telling my Children and seeing there reaction and just hate that I am not going to see them daily.


Huh? You guys did not tell your children yet??

They deserve being told what's going on, don't you think? In 3 weeks, their lives will never be the same again, so I think they need at least a little time to get accustomed to the idea. 

PS: I told my WAW to inform our kids of her decision to leave. And she did. Afterwards they came to me, in tears of course, and I reassured them we would all survive this, as had done their mum. Hard, yes, but imperative for their wellbeing.


----------



## Edmund

I feel certain there is another man you will soon find out about. Hence the rush. The sudden divorce request out of the blue (he gave your ex an ultimatum to get moving on the D that he wasn't going to wait around forever for her to get divorced.) 6 month apartment rental... after the 3 months in the mediation, she will move in with him. At first I figured that she just wanted an open marriage type thing where she could date around but still "date" you as well ... keeping her family ... but the sudden move out and temporary quarters make me think she is done with you. I am so sorry for you. I have been married 38 years and still in love. I am so lucky. God comfort you Moving Forward.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yes I am very sentimental and a little bit of a hoarder so really don't like throwing anything away so i think I will box it all up and let her deal with it all, not sure if i would be able to throw it out myself.
> 
> Same with pics on social media so many of my pics are family pics of us with the kids so going to have to figure out what to do with them all.


When WC moved out after the D final, she left so much stuff it was mind blowing. She left behind

pictures of her family, parents, son (I thought moms would fight an alligator for their kid's pictures),

her son's baby book, his firetruck he played with many summers. I had everything sitting

under the car port and in garage when we made several dog swaps. She mentioned not one 

word about them. I waited 2-3 months and hauled everything to the dump. The stuff she left filled

up the entire bed of my F-150. THAT's how much she was trying to re-write history.


----------



## FeministInPink

Chuck71 said:


> When WC moved out after the D final, she left so much stuff it was mind blowing. She left behind
> 
> pictures of her family, parents, son (I thought moms would fight an alligator for their kid's pictures),
> 
> her son's baby book, his firetruck he played with many summers. I had everything sitting
> 
> under the car port and in garage when we made several dog swaps. She mentioned not one
> 
> word about them. I waited 2-3 months and hauled everything to the dump. The stuff she left filled
> 
> up the entire bed of my F-150. THAT's how much she was trying to re-write history.


It's amazing what people will walk away from. It makes me wonder if these people really care about anything at all.

My XH left EVERYTHING. I packed it all up and put it in a storage unit, because that's just the kind of person I am. I figured he would want it... but he's probably never even gone in the storage unit.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

EasyPartner said:


> Huh? You guys did not tell your children yet??
> 
> They deserve being told what's going on, don't you think? In 3 weeks, their lives will never be the same again, so I think they need at least a little time to get accustomed to the idea.
> 
> PS: I told my WAW to inform our kids of her decision to leave. And she did. Afterwards they came to me, in tears of course, and I reassured them we would all survive this, as had done their mum. Hard, yes, but imperative for their wellbeing.


No we were supposed to on Saturday but it did not happen, it will have to be very soon, I was just warned about telling them too soon and before we could answer all there questions on a Schedule and all other things that are going to change, she has had so much back and forth on what she is doing I really didn't want to give them any unneeded confusion, her moving out was something she text me after mediation out the blue and prior she had given me a good buyout on the house for her to have some time to stay there while looking for a new place, I have no clue day to day what she is doing or planning.

I do agree about them needing to know ASAP but i think a couple of weeks is enough time I dont think anything would completely prepare them for this.


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> I feel certain there is another man you will soon find out about. Hence the rush. The sudden divorce request out of the blue (he gave your ex an ultimatum to get moving on the D that he wasn't going to wait around forever for her to get divorced.) 6 month apartment rental... after the 3 months in the mediation, she will move in with him. At first I figured that she just wanted an open marriage type thing where she could date around but still "date" you as well ... keeping her family ... but the sudden move out and temporary quarters make me think she is done with you. I am so sorry for you. I have been married 38 years and still in love. I am so lucky. God comfort you Moving Forward.


Yes everything points to that logically but I cant quite believe it yet myself maybe just denying so I dont have to deal with anything extra.

It is a tough time and a big change.


----------



## MovingForward

MovingForward said:


> Crazy to think she just left all her memories like that, maybe to some people they dont mean a lot.





FeministInPink said:


> It's amazing what people will walk away from. It makes me wonder if these people really care about anything at all.
> 
> My XH left EVERYTHING. I packed it all up and put it in a storage unit, because that's just the kind of person I am. I figured he would want it... but he's probably never even gone in the storage unit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I still keep all my kids 'art work' even the things they did when they were 1-2 that just looks like someone got a sharpie and ran it all over a piece of paper :smile2:


----------



## Betrayedone

MovingForward said:


> Just going to be glad to be out of this situation it is awful and suffocating, I'm technically not losing anyone as they are already absent and think nothing of me.
> 
> She was trying to be nothing but nice all last night as we had a school event with my Daughter but I could not engage with her she wanted me to sit with her to 'share' the moment' to sit arm in arm and throughout the evening kept reaching out to hold my arm or put her arm around be but I was not allowing it, she was apologizing telling me she was just overwhelmed etc. but some who cannot even talk to me, someone who can turn on me and threaten me like that, someone who thinks its acceptable to treat someone who they apparently 'care about so much' is not someone I want in my life.
> 
> She still thinks we are going to be a family to which I keep trying to explain the entire purpose of Divorce is to separate us as a family so we can start new families with other people
> 
> Some scary and sad times ahead I am sure but just got to keep looking forward and not back, I have a great IC who emails me regularly and I joined a support group this week so hoping I will be OK and on the path to the new future, whatever that is.
> 
> I just cant wait until she is out the house for good.


Yea, same thing here.......My X thought we were still going to be one big happy family too. I told her..."Once you divorce me you will NEVER see me again. There will be you and the kids and there will be me and the kids but never the two shall meet." I meant it. That was 4 years ago.


----------



## Betrayedone

FeministInPink said:


> I got so much out of stuffing my wedding dress in the rubbish bin. It felt great. My best friend was trying to convince me to donate it, and I was like, no way. First off, I will have to pay to have it repaired and cleaned before I can donate it, and at the time that was cash that I did not have to waste, and second, this dress has so much bad juju all over it, and third, I WANT TO STUFF IT IN THE RUBBISH BIN AND PUT OTHER TRASH ON TOP OF IT!
> 
> I had a much harder time trashing my wedding and honeymoon albums, because they weren't just albums, they were very detailed scrapbooks that I had invested a great many hours into making. They were beautiful books. But I finally convinced myself to toss them, and I don't regret it.
> 
> Getting rid of shared stuff, and gifts he gave me, was very therapeutic. There's no need to hang on to those mementos when it's over. Keeping them is just depressing.


I threw my X's wedding dress on a raging bonfire during a drinking ceremony.......Felt good. Didn't want the bad karma to spread to someone else.


----------



## MovingForward

Betrayedone said:


> Yea, same thing here.......My X thought we were still going to be one big happy family too. I told her..."Once you divorce me you will NEVER see me again. There will be you and the kids and there will be me and the kids but never the two shall meet." I meant it. That was 4 years ago.


That's how I need to do it also. How did the kids adjust and did it cause any issues?

I know I have to have some contact at times but can limit it to short times and on task discussions. 

I do hate that I lose my family though its a depressing thought, it will literally just be me and the kids my closest family is a 10 hour direct flight away!!! Guess i need to build a friend/family network over next few years.


----------



## MovingForward

Steve1000 said:


> Prepare yourself for the first ten minutes of being alone in the house as it will be eerily quiet. Remind yourself that this will pass and you will be happy again some day. Then go shopping for the home theater system that you've always dreamed of.


It could work out OK for me pretty much the entire summer she is away with kids and then I am so will get used to being alone and not having anyone around.

I have made a list of some things I want to do and buy as soon as I financially catch up and get back on my feet.


----------



## Betrayedone

Chuck71 said:


> When WC moved out after the D final, she left so much stuff it was mind blowing. She left behind
> 
> pictures of her family, parents, son (I thought moms would fight an alligator for their kid's pictures),
> 
> her son's baby book, his firetruck he played with many summers. I had everything sitting
> 
> under the car port and in garage when we made several dog swaps. She mentioned not one
> 
> word about them. I waited 2-3 months and hauled everything to the dump. The stuff she left filled
> 
> up the entire bed of my F-150. THAT's how much she was trying to re-write history.


WOW! That's amazing. Mine did the same thing.


----------



## Betrayedone

MovingForward said:


> That's how I need to do it also. How did the kids adjust and did it cause any issues?
> 
> I know I have to have some contact at times but can limit it to short times and on task discussions.
> 
> I do hate that I lose my family though its a depressing thought, it will literally just be me and the kids my closest family is a 10 hour direct flight away!!! Guess i need to build a friend/family network over next few years.


My kids were 17 and 20 at the time so sitch is different than yours. They are cool with it. They are with me right now for a few days. One in med school other joining coast guard next month. You do not necessarily have to have ANY contact with her. I would advise against it but that's just the way I deal.....


----------



## MovingForward

Betrayedone said:


> My kids were 17 and 20 at the time so sitch is different than yours. They are cool with it. They are with me right now for a few days. One in med school other joining coast guard next month. You do not necessarily have to have ANY contact with her. I would advise against it but that's just the way I deal.....


Mine are 8 and 5 so a little trickier but workable mostly I think well at least keep it to quick business and done. I'm sure I will slip up a few times at the start but once I get a new routine down it should be easier.


----------



## Betrayedone

Remember......The best revenge is living well and being happy. Show that when you are in her presence but do not share any of that happiness with her.


----------



## MovingForward

Betrayedone said:


> Remember......The best revenge is living well and being happy. Show that when you are in her presence but do not share any of that happiness with her.


I'm not really looking for revenge but I do want to live well and be happy again, just going to need a lot of help to see if i can get over this and trust someone again for a future relationship, otherwise just going to have to make a good life for kids and spend my time traveling and just doing what I want


----------



## FeministInPink

Betrayedone said:


> I threw my X's wedding dress on a raging bonfire during a drinking ceremony.......Felt good. Didn't want the bad karma to spread to someone else.


Oh, man, I should have done that! I don't think my fire pit was big enough, though...


----------



## JohnA

Away for the summer with the kids? Is that a good idea?

As to the idea of friends: never.

Allies when it comes to your children but never friends. Your ex needs to know as well as your children they have only one father. Others can be a mentor, favorite teacher, etc but never a dad.


----------



## JohnA

Bye the way; you mentioned you live far away from your birth place and family. Has your stbexWW ever made an effort to plan to travel to visit them at all? My dad was from half way across country from where I grew up. Yet even as the interstate was still being built we would spend three days traveling to and then from his family using up my dad's two week vacation. My mom always insisted his family was as important as his.


----------



## MovingForward

JohnA said:


> Away for the summer with the kids? Is that a good idea?
> 
> As to the idea of friends: never.
> 
> Allies when it comes to your children but never friends. *Your ex needs to know as well as your children they have only one father*. Others can be a mentor, favorite teacher, etc but never a dad.


She takes the Children back every summer for 3-4 weeks usually as I am traveling a lot for work and they spend summer with her large family. It was booked prior and as part of our settlement she still has option too, it also allows me 2 weeks away every other Christmas and same time away in Summer so it works both ways, I actually think timing is perfect she goes for 3 weeks then comes back and i take them away to go back to my home town for 2 weeks so there is less time to wallow or think about anything.



JohnA said:


> Bye the way; you mentioned you live far away from your birth place and family. Has your stbexWW ever made an effort to plan to travel to visit them at all? My dad was from half way across country from where I grew up. Yet even as the interstate was still being built we would spend three days traveling to and then from his family using up my dad's two week vacation. My mom always insisted his family was as important as his.


Yes she lived there for a few years and we have been back twice in the last 10 years as a family but cost usually prevented us from going more often. 

*Your ex needs to know as well as your children they have only one father* this is one of my big concerns, she in my eyes is much closer to her step dad than her dad and I am sure wold think nothing of introducing someone as a dad and not really sure how i can stop that


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I still keep all my kids 'art work' even the things they did when they were 1-2 that just looks like someone got a sharpie and ran it all over a piece of paper :smile2:


One good thing is they will not be told until the school year is complete. It will be a big arse 

shock to them. The summer can be a transition time.

God knows mom kept ALL of my @$%%^^ stuff from my childhood. It was almost hoarder-ish 

But that's for your kids to do with when they grow up. For you... you look back upon a time long gone

but never forgotten. When I was a kid.... mom n pop made a horsey out of a broom stick, colored socks

for a head, stuffed with socks, green string for hair, even had eyes n a smiley face.

I rode that damn thing everywhere as a kid. If I had $1 every mile I rode it, I would be posting this

at my villa on the beach in Naples, FL. I was about to graduate HS, mom n pop had a yard sale, they had

my horsey for sale. I flipped out. -No way in he!! you're selling this damnit-

I put it away, planned to bring it out when I had kids. Well hasn't happened yet. But when mom

had her heart attack in 2015, then the mini strokes (those did the real damage), refusing treatment

for stomach cancer..... I went looking for horsey, don't ask why. Found it.... it sits propped in a corner

of my ball card room. I don't really need it there to remember, but more that I don't forget.


----------



## Chuck71

Betrayedone said:


> I threw my X's wedding dress on a raging bonfire during a drinking ceremony.......Felt good. Didn't want the bad karma to spread to someone else.


I burned our wedding photos (mom had negatives if she wanted any in future). We had just filed for D.

It didn't bother me a bit. Thought it would but it didn't. I still have some I put back when we first met,

M, y'know the fun years LOL! I can look at them and smile and laugh.... great times.

Plus the step son I raised was still a good kid. In the end, he turned into a thug.

If I could re-do history and either have my XW back or my step son being a responsible citizen....

I would choose the step son without hesitation. Oh... BTW.... when XW moved out after D final,

she took her copy of the wedding photos and placed them on the entertainment center of her studio.

Again.... re-writing history at it's finest!


----------



## Davidmidwest

12 years to get to this point and can all be over and be strangers in a matter of weeks. Yes it can be over in a day once either one of you decides to choose to divorce. Once the Four Horsemen of the Appocolyps strike at Contempt, Both can feel it or one does and other does not. The marriage is done for. It's over and a sunk cost and the 12 years is the cost of doing business. I hope you are not older than 40 or 43. You will have four years to get your life together to try again, start over, in a different way if you want children. explain later with advice.

Have a IC session tomorrow with a new guy and timing couldn't be better unless it was today. Split and divide up the money. If you have a decent paying job and it is somewhat safe,have a few grand in money, move out and get an apartment. It's absolutely horrible to see your spouse and deal with the attitude. Especially when you feel you have to give it back. You may feel it is o.k. to have conversation, but like a knife, she will use the venom to put you down by not giving you respect although you do.


Just need to get through these next few months and hope it doesn't get messy, any advice on living in the same house and co parenting while in the divorce process would be very much appreciated?
You guys were working on becoming strangers for a long time coming,

This is what happened to me in a way.... over ten years we just didn't attune to each other's needs, Step kids hers and mine never blended. money flying out the window to pay for your child support is a thing wife doesn't like. you may be didn't realize it. I am sure you had a uneasy feeling in your gut and ignored it. Try not to that.

Advice from now on. in the future wife
1.10% of your income and 10% of her account. If you need to put in more of your money to equal yours do so.
If there is any disparity of the two you will pay later. Boy will you pay later. If you hide $4K in an emergency bucket off site and no-one knows you have it is your safety valve to high-tale it our of a bad situation. Pick a place the Court and She can't find it. It may come in handy for another divorce or a stash to pay a huge medical copay for you, your wife, or children. Expenses can break a marriage in the above cases. 

It is just love to fund and both of you have this money. I will explain later.

2. If you can reconcile great if not so be it. Seek marital counseling, Gottman Training if she is willing. Kids get real screwed up in divorce. ]

3. Together review the love verses of Corinthians and maybe you will understand what it means. Most likely you both feel naked because you are at the point where you decide what love is and can stomach their bad faults, accept them, and still love each other to make love and stick it out. Romance, love, sex waynes and waxes like the seasons. See Joe Black the Movie. She saw what Mr. Black was. Couldn't accept it. True love, appreciation, and acceptance to the core of what Corinthians means that she should have gone with Joe Black. I think millions don't know the meaning. I did but too late so I must move on. It hurts even if is my third divorce. I thought this one was different.

4. Get a lawyer at all costs. I went procey could not afford one. I tried to get a loan everywhere. If you have to go process, Get as much $50.00 half hour consultations you can. Illinois law still favors separate marital property when it is acquired alone during and before marriage even though you both transmute/co-mingled income.

5. Do not every marry a woman with kids until they are out of the house a few years and will not becoming back. They destroy marriages no matter how young or old they are. If the child is 23 or older and mom forbids him or her to move out of the home and get a life, there is some serious Freud and emotional incest issues If the step son is walking around like her deceased husband to take his place. Get out that is not a marriage. I accepted that subconsciously until I got depressed.

advice.
Don't argue, don't get even, don't get angry and rehash the past of who did what or who didn't do what. 
If you go to trial it will make you a poster child for marriage terrorism and it will be recorded as such.

Give all the attention to your children you can muster.

Move out

Attend a 12 week Divorce care support group at a church. It was really helpfull.

If you can reconcile great.

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj Im tired.


----------



## MovingForward

@Davidmidwest that is a hard read LOL as not quotes.

There is no reconciliation here she did not want MC and has not attended IC she is leaving and apparently I am 100% to blame oh well we are going to Divorced shortly it is all in process and will be finalized shortly(Hopefully).

I did not see this coming and was 100% trusting which as it has gone down was my bad as she has not been trustworthy herself in this process and has gone back on promises and agreements multiple times, i will not make that mistake again.

She is moving out in a few weeks but if i could go back in time i would have moved out myself months ago, I thought we could still work it out but that was never on the cards and just caused me much more pain that i could have avoided.

I plan to put all my effort into making my kids feel safe, secure and loved in my presence at least and the rest of the time I plan to improve all areas of my life, Hobbies , Education, friendships, health and overall happiness.

I am under 40 so have time to catch up financially and get life back on track but as for remarrying no Thanks, I have children and am not looking for anymore, i would be open to a LTR in future but not sure how that would work other than separate houses and stay together when kids are with other parent who knows, the only thing i am sure on though is i will never remarry it is way too much hassle and seems like it doesn't mean much to people anymore other than gambling yours and your kids future financial security on someone who can take half your assets and then expect you to maintain there lifestyle for years after you are no longer married or together.

This forum has been a great learning tool i just wished i had been more open to really taking it all in earlier, i thought deep down my story was different but they all seem the same and go the same way, when she told me she wanted a D i should have filed, moved out and not looked back, i would be in a much happier place currently had i done that.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> O*ne good thing is they will not be told until the school year is complete. It will be a big arse
> 
> shock to them. The summer can be a transition time.
> *
> 
> for stomach cancer..... I went looking for horsey, don't ask why. Found it.... it sits propped in a corner
> 
> of my ball card room. I don't really need it there to remember, but more that I don't forget.


Yes i think the summer is a good transition, finish school and have a long time to lose the current routine we have and when they come back from all the trips they can start new routines.

I don't have anything like that from my childhood but it makes sense to go back to a time of comfort and good memories, weirdly when I think back about my Dad the memory has my STBXW in it, we got together just as he had a major motorcycle accident and she only met him for a day or 2 before he became permanently disabled physically and mentally, he was a little crazy at times and when I brought her home to meet him he got me in a headlock, gave me some nuggys and then body slammed me on the couch and then picked her up and threw her over his shoulder and spun her around really fast, she was a little shocked since they just met and had not really exchanged pleasantries yet it was hilarious at the time and the only real time she saw the dad I knew.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yes i think the summer is a good transition, finish school and have a long time to lose the current routine we have and when they come back from all the trips they can start new routines.
> 
> I don't have anything like that from my childhood but it makes sense to go back to a time of comfort and good memories, weirdly when I think back about my Dad the memory has my STBXW in it, we got together just as he had a major motorcycle accident and she only met him for a day or 2 before he became permanently disabled physically and mentally, he was a little crazy at times and when I brought her home to meet him he got me in a headlock, gave me some nuggys and then body slammed me on the couch and then picked her up and threw her over his shoulder and spun her around really fast, she was a little shocked since they just met and had not really exchanged pleasantries yet it was hilarious at the time and the only real time she saw the dad I knew.


All I can say is..... when my pop would get drunk, you didn't know what pop was going to

come out, funny pop, philosophical pop, memory lane pop, or the azzhole pop. But he never really

showed his arse around any g/fs ... at first. Never had to worry about mom... until dementia set in.

I only brought one around her the year she went downhill. Granted I wasn't that serious with

any but also I didn't know which mom they would meet. DC did meet her, I was nervous as sheet.

She met the mom I had known 40+ years.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> All I can say is..... when my pop would get drunk, you didn't know what pop was going to
> 
> come out, funny pop, philosophical pop, memory lane pop, or the azzhole pop. But he never really
> 
> showed his arse around any g/fs ... at first. Never had to worry about mom... until dementia set in.
> 
> I only brought one around her the year she went downhill. Granted I wasn't that serious with
> 
> any but also I didn't know which mom they would meet. DC did meet her, I was nervous as sheet.
> 
> She met the mom I had known 40+ years.


Dads are a funny bunch, I hope my kids remember me as a good dad.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Dads are a funny bunch, I hope my kids remember me as a good dad.


“Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them.” Oscar Wilde


----------



## MovingForward

Went to Group counseling again last night, was a good experience again it is just guys and feels good to just talk openly about whatever we want and have the group listen and offer support, I came home refreshed and in a much better mindset.

Only 15 more days until my W starts moving out(she has a week) got a lot of things to arrange and we also get to split all the finances that day so a big step towards moving on.

I think I am getting excited finally.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Went to Group counseling again last night, was a good experience again it is just guys and feels good to just talk openly about whatever we want and have the group listen and offer support, I came home refreshed and in a much better mindset.
> 
> Only 15 more days until my W starts moving out(she has a week) got a lot of things to arrange and we also get to split all the finances that day so a big step towards moving on.
> 
> I think I am getting excited finally.


Even if you have to return them..... her last day there, have the delivery guys bring over all

the stuff you'd want for a man cave. Get a pool table while you're at it.

Give the XW something to think about LOL.... "WITF is MF going to enjoy me being gone?"


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Even if you have to return them..... her last day there, have the delivery guys bring over all
> 
> the stuff you'd want for a man cave. Get a pool table while you're at it.
> 
> Give the XW something to think about LOL.... "WITF is MF going to enjoy me being gone?"


Yes there are so many things i want to get but unfortunately money is going to be a little tight to start so will have to hold off on the pool table :grin2:

I have been planning my vision for the house though and I was never 'allowed' a Pool table in the past because we had to have a formal Dining room we never used instead.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yes there are so many things i want to get but unfortunately money is going to be a little tight to start so will have to hold off on the pool table :grin2:
> 
> I have been planning my vision for the house though and I was never 'allowed' a Pool table in the past because we had to have a formal Dining room we never used instead.


What are your fav sports?


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> Yes there are so many things i want to get but unfortunately money is going to be a little tight to start so will have to hold off on the pool table :grin2:
> 
> I have been planning my vision for the house though and I was never 'allowed' a Pool table in the past because we had to have a formal Dining room we never used instead.


When I was a kid my dad did this, we had a huge old house with a big formal dining room which of course was never used. One day come home and the big formal dining table is gone and pool table in its place. Sure my mom hated it but we all had fun shooting pool.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> What are your fav sports?


Boxing and MMA


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> When I was a kid my dad did this, we had a huge old house with a big formal dining room which of course was never used. One day come home and the big formal dining table is gone and pool table in its place. Sure my mom hated it but we all had fun shooting pool.


Yep a Pool table would be used weekly, our dining room table has been used twice in 2 years!!!!!!


----------



## Genord92

sry for tl;dr all thread but what is the situation with lawyer assistance? my close pall used to dealing with his waifu too and without proper divorce attorney he almost get broke by his mad ex, so be aware.


----------



## MovingForward

Genord92 said:


> sry for tl;dr all thread but what is the situation with lawyer assistance? my close pall used to dealing with his waifu too and without proper divorce attorney he almost get broke by his mad ex, so be aware.


We have not used Lawyers just a Mediator, our state is a community property state so assets all 50/50 and child support is a state calculator, Alimony was only thing we had to work out and I just cut my loses and gave her what she wanted and got a reduced time for it, if we had gone to court i would have been responsible for all legal fee's on both sides and my child custody agreement could have been worse due to my work schedule which we were able to workaround in Mediation and Alimony could have gone either way but could would have been a longer duration.


----------



## MovingForward

MovingForward said:


> Yep a Pool table would be used weekly, our dining room table has been used twice in 2 years!!!!!!


Just got word the Dining room table is mine in the Divorce LOL :rofl:


----------



## farsidejunky

Is there any way you could pay somebody to convert it to a pool table? Like, really conspicuously looking like the old table, while just adding a few pockets.


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Is there any way you could pay somebody to convert it to a pool table? Like, really conspicuously looking like the old table, while just adding a few pockets.


I still have room for a pool table also so might as well find a use for the table since its 'mine' now LOL, i just found it funny how I never cared about it and she told me I can keep it.

We still need to go through all the other furniture this weekend luckily we have so much since she liked to fill every room there will be plenty of things left regardless, only one thing we both want is the Bed so going to see if she wants to flip a coin. :smile2:


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> I still have room for a pool table also so might as well find a use for the table since its 'mine' now LOL, i just found it funny how I never cared about it and she told me I can keep it.
> 
> We still need to go through all the other furniture this weekend luckily we have so much since she liked to fill every room there will be plenty of things left regardless, only one thing we both want is the Bed so going to see if she wants to flip a coin. :smile2:


When my brother divorced many years ago his ex "graciously" left the precious dining room table too, first time she came back to house to to the child exchange my brother had a 351 Cleveland motor torn apart on top of it. She went ballistic > seeing her table used as a work bench.


----------



## MovingForward

Was working through some rooms last night just taking note of what we had and what I wanted to keep and figure out how to reorganize furniture once some items are removed.

Came across a lot of Photo Albums my STBXW has put together over the years, it stirred a lot of emotion, my first trip to the US she was in the pics(we weren't together at the time), buying our first house together all the holidays we had taken, fun nights and trips with all my friends back in England, Moving to the US, our pets, birth of Children and their steps, first Christmas, Thanksgiving and vacations, first time swimming and walking on the beach.

I know I will have plenty of time in future to build new memories and take new pictures and videos involving my new life and the new people in it but it is still sad.

One thing which I really don't like is that I dont get to share moments I have with the kids with anyone, I know that sounds a little weird but its just how I feel.


----------



## Marc878

Remember who took all this away. Get your perspective. It'll still hurt but you'll be able to deal with detachment beret that way.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Remember who took all this away. Get your perspective. It'll still hurt but you'll be able to deal with detachment beret that way.


I know, was speaking to my Group about this and my IC also provided feedback and basically said men dont always grieve the Spouse or Marriage they grieve the loss of their family unit and the security that provided and I think that is exactly how I am feeling. 

I will miss being able to catch every moment and experience my kids have, Miss having a family during the holidays, Miss looking forward to family vacations just those things and maybe I am just being overly sensitive and thinking about too much at once, I think generally day to day this should be a positive experience for me i am know in control of my own future again.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> I know, was speaking to my Group about this and my IC also provided feedback and basically said men dont always grieve the Spouse or Marriage they grieve the loss of their family unit and the security that provided and I think that is exactly how I am feeling.
> 
> I will miss being able to catch every moment and experience my kids have, Miss having a family during the holidays, Miss looking forward to family vacations just those things and maybe I am just being overly sensitive and thinking about too much at once, I think generally day to day this should be a positive experience for me i am know in control of my own future again.


If you do this right the time you have them will be more concentrated and better than now. Plus you get to have a life. I see this as a win-win


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> If you do this right the time you have them will be more concentrated and better than now. Plus you get to have a life. I see this as a win-win


I like it Marc just Love your tough love and positive spins, better quality time with the children on my terms and a fun filled life outside of my life as 'DAD' for sure a WIN WIN WIN


----------



## farsidejunky

honcho said:


> When my brother divorced many years ago his ex "graciously" left the precious dining room table too, first time she came back to house to to the child exchange my brother had a 351 Cleveland motor torn apart on top of it. She went ballistic > seeing her table used as a work bench.


No wonder she's an ex wife. That's a 351 Cleveland for crying out loud...

ETA: did it have 4 Barrel heads?


----------



## honcho

farsidejunky said:


> No wonder she's an ex wife. That's a 351 Cleveland for crying out loud...
> 
> ETA: did it have 4 Barrel heads?


Yeah 4 barrel heads, the motor is in his 72 Mustang mach 1. He still has the car, he's owned it over 30 years now though the years haven't been kind to the body. He's in the middle of doing a ground up restore on it now.


----------



## Thor

MovingForward said:


> I know I will have plenty of time in future to build new memories and take new pictures and videos involving my new life and the new people in it but it is still sad.
> 
> One thing which I really don't like is that I dont get to share moments I have with the kids with anyone, I know that sounds a little weird but its just how I feel.





MovingForward said:


> I know, was speaking to my Group about this and my IC also provided feedback and basically said men dont always grieve the Spouse or Marriage they grieve the loss of their family unit and the security that provided and I think that is exactly how I am feeling.
> 
> I will miss being able to catch every moment and experience my kids have, Miss having a family during the holidays, Miss looking forward to family vacations just those things and maybe I am just being overly sensitive and thinking about too much at once, I think generally day to day this should be a positive experience for me i am know in control of my own future again.


Ok, that's all normal. I was married 34 yrs, and all my kids are in their 20's. A few grandkids, too. As I considered the option of divorce over the last years we were married, I was acutely aware that I could not have the same things with a new woman. That is, I will never have a young family and all of those memories with a new wife. We won't go through the struggles of teens (that's perhaps a very good thing!). I spent my entire adult life with my now ex-W. We explored the world, we learned about life, we went through everything together.

Any future relationships I have can be fantastic. But we will never have children in common. We'll be together during years of physical decline rather than the years of our physical peaks.

For me, I agree there is a grieving of the loss of the family. To be honest, though, I miss the dogs far far more than I miss my ex or living with her!

On the other hand, there are new memories and good times with your kids. Holidays are _different_, but they are on my terms and the way that I want to do them. Kids have fun easily. New places, new circumstances, new traditions are full of exploration and fun when they are younger. If they are older, the relationship becomes more peer like than parent-child, which provides opportunities to talk about their lives and plans. You get the chance to show your leadership (over your own life) and confidence in the face of change. You get to configure your home and life to your own preferences. My kids and grandkids all seem to be quite ok.

Things will be different, but they will be good for you and your kids.


----------



## turnera

You don't have any other family members or good friends you can share pictures or memories with?


----------



## MovingForward

Thor said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I will have plenty of time in future to build new memories and take new pictures and videos involving my new life and the new people in it but it is still sad.
> 
> One thing which I really don't like is that I dont get to share moments I have with the kids with anyone, I know that sounds a little weird but its just how I feel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know, was speaking to my Group about this and my IC also provided feedback and basically said men dont always grieve the Spouse or Marriage they grieve the loss of their family unit and the security that provided and I think that is exactly how I am feeling.
> 
> I will miss being able to catch every moment and experience my kids have, Miss having a family during the holidays, Miss looking forward to family vacations just those things and maybe I am just being overly sensitive and thinking about too much at once, I think generally day to day this should be a positive experience for me i am know in control of my own future again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, that's all normal. I was married 34 yrs, and all my kids are in their 20's. A few grandkids, too. As I considered the option of divorce over the last years we were married, I was acutely aware that I could not have the same things with a new woman. That is, I will never have a young family and all of those memories with a new wife. We won't go through the struggles of teens (that's perhaps a very good thing!). I spent my entire adult life with my now ex-W. We explored the world, we learned about life, we went through everything together.
> 
> Any future relationships I have can be fantastic. But we will never have children in common. We'll be together during years of physical decline rather than the years of our physical peaks.
> 
> For me, I agree there is a grieving of the loss of the family. To be honest, though, I miss the dogs far far more than I miss my ex or living with her!
> 
> On the other hand, there are new memories and good times with your kids. Holidays are _different_, but they are on my terms and the way that I want to do them. Kids have fun easily. New places, new circumstances, new traditions are full of exploration and fun when they are younger. If they are older, the relationship becomes more peer like than parent-child, which provides opportunities to talk about their lives and plans. You get the chance to show your leadership (over your own life) and confidence in the face of change. You get to configure your home and life to your own preferences. My kids and grandkids all seem to be quite ok.
> 
> Things will be different, but they will be good for you and your kids.
Click to expand...

I know it just hurts my children are still young and very good chance there is going to be another dad in there life and he will be spending as much time with them as I will and he will be part of the kids family life with all the grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins that I am no longer going to be in.


----------



## MovingForward

turnera said:


> You don't have any other family members or good friends you can share pictures or memories with?


My closest family are a ten hour flight away if I fly direct In another country, this summer will be first time in almost 7 years I have been back as it is quite cost prohibitive. I don't have any close friends here but working on it so hopeful that is coming. I think it's just a thought adjustment I always wanted us to raise the kids together and be a family and that part has gone we will be raising them separate from each other and having separate lives.

I will get over it just a big change from how I thought my life would be


----------



## MovingForward

We told the children lastnight, it went as well as could be expected, my younger one cried and refused to talk and just kept trying to pull me and my w together, my elder one tried to pretend nothing was wrong and comfort his sister. Felt terrible telling them and hope we can make this as bareable as possible for them.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ok, so this means that for now, your focus needs to be on the kids. You've had time to process, but this is new and very confusing for them. Give them lots of hugs, and tell them how much you love them, how important they are to you, and that will.never change, no matter what.

Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Ok, so this means that for now, your focus needs to be on the kids. You've had time to process, but this is new and very confusing for them. Give them lots of hugs, and tell them how much you love them, how important they are to you, and that will.never change, no matter what.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know I think it is going to take them a while to let it sink in as the summer is so crazy.

Not looking forward to co-parenting find it really hard being around her currently.

It just devastates me, the entire situation is terrible all around, I don't even feel like I am able to look after myself and terrified of making a mess of this.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> I know I think it is going to take them a while to let it sink in as the summer is so crazy.
> 
> Not looking forward to co-parenting find it really hard being around her currently.
> 
> It just devastates me, the entire situation is terrible all around, I don't even feel like I am able to look after myself and terrified of making a mess of this.


Here's the thing... now that your kids know, you need to suck up your sadness and reach down deep to find your strength. Your kids are now looking at YOU to lead them. How they cope will depend on you, and if you mope and cry and whine like the world is ending, then that is the example your children will be following. Is that what you want? I doubt it. If you face this head on as a challenge and let them know all the ways that everything will be ok, then your kids will find their own strength too. Be their example. The last thing you want is your kids to follow you into a downward spiral.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Here's the thing... now that your kids know, you need to suck up your sadness and reach down deep to find your strength. Your kids are now looking at YOU to lead them. How they cope will depend on you, and if you mope and cry and whine like the world is ending, then that is the example your children will be following. Is that what you want? I doubt it. If you face this head on as a challenge and let them know all the ways that everything will be ok, then your kids will find their own strength too. Be their example. The last thing you want is your kids to follow you into a downward spiral.


I am not going to let them see anything and ensure they know they are loved and safe but it doesn't make the times they are not there any easier. 

I am just sitting in a hotel room 2000 miles away currently and feeling depressed about it all, it has just been a really rough day and feeling sorry for myself, will be back end of the week and with them again so things are easier to deal with, its another step into the new life we will all be living and every step closer brings a little more pain and anxiety.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I know it just hurts my children are still young and very good chance there is going to be another dad in there life and he will be spending as much time with them as I will and he will be part of the kids family life with all the grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins that I am no longer going to be in.


You act like your STBXW and some guy are going to skip off into the sunset and spend the next 51

years together. News flash.... ain't happenin'. If you think a D mom with two young kids are 

appealing to men.... guess again. Ever hear the term, "hit it and quit it?" Very few moms with two

young kids are going to be sought after by upwardly mobile men. IF she does seek out a LTR

it will be with a much older man with lots of cash. He just wants someone to take care of him 

as he gets older. Hopefully that will be the case and any alimony would cease at that time.

Or she will turn into a MILF and bang every guy that comes along.... which means you children will

see the revolving door. Or she could meet a guy with a few kids of his own and.... WAIT...

that can't happen.... his kids would take priority over her and that would cut into her "spending

habits."


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it just hurts my children are still young and very good chance there is going to be another dad in there life and he will be spending as much time with them as I will and he will be part of the kids family life with all the grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins that I am no longer going to be in.
> 
> 
> 
> You act like your STBXW and some guy are going to skip off into the sunset and spend the next 51
> 
> years together. News flash.... ain't happenin'. If you think a D mom with two young kids are
> 
> appealing to men.... guess again. Ever hear the term, "hit it and quit it?" Very few moms with two
> 
> young kids are going to be sought after by upwardly mobile men. IF she does seek out a LTR
> 
> it will be with a much older man with lots of cash. He just wants someone to take care of him
> 
> as he gets older. Hopefully that will be the case and any alimony would cease at that time.
> 
> Or she will turn into a MILF and bang every guy that comes along.... which means you children will
> 
> see the revolving door. Or she could meet a guy with a few kids of his own and.... WAIT...
> 
> that can't happen.... his kids would take priority over her and that would cut into her "spending
> 
> habits."
Click to expand...

Hoping to avoid the revolving door scenario don't want my kids to see that.


----------



## Chuck71

Hows yousa holdin up MF?


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Hows yousa holdin up MF?


Well..............pretty ****.

Came back from my work trip to discover she was at Dinner with my kids and the guy I originally thought she was cheating with back in December which she denied and continues to, apparently our kids are just best friends now and she did him a favor and looked after his kids and they all went and grabbed pizza together after he picked back up. Allegedly i am paranoid and its just kids playing and nothing is going on, today she has been really fast though helping me finalize the Divorce agreement edits and oh so friendly again.

Last night she was basically telling me I was an a-hole for accusing her and I need to accept she is going to start dating soon anyway and we have basically been divorced 6 months so time to move on.

I really hope the agreement comes back ASAP to sign before anything else can change.


----------



## farsidejunky

Are you surprised?


----------



## MovingForward

farsidejunky said:


> Are you surprised?


Stupidly i was still not figured out how she has managed to pull if off and really did not expect her to be brash enough to do that and think it is OK but I guess she does keep surprising me.

She is becoming more of a stranger every day I barely recognize her anymore.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I'm sure your kids are thrilled...


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> I'm sure your kids are thrilled...


They Don't really even realize what is happening just yet, I can see it as a soft intro to make sure all is well before he gets 'officially' introduced in another role. I just still can't believe it just the blatancy of it and still denying, married over a decade and she really pulled the wool over my eyes on who she was.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> Stupidly i was still not figured out how she has managed to pull if off and really did not expect her to be brash enough to do that and think it is OK but I guess she does keep surprising me.
> 
> She is becoming more of a stranger every day I barely recognize her anymore.


She became a stranger to you long ago, you just refuse to see it. You need to quit being surprised by her and her actions, all of this should have been anticipated from her. She is going to be friendly right now because she wants out to chase her new "dream" life. Use it to your advantage and get the agreement done and over with.


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> She became a stranger to you long ago, you just refuse to see it. You need to quit being surprised by her and her actions, all of this should have been anticipated from her. She is going to be friendly right now because she wants out to chase her new "dream" life. Use it to your advantage and get the agreement done and over with.


Were practically done just waiting for final agreement to come back.

I guess I try to see the good and expect people to be honest especially when you have children together and they are trapped in the middle.

It has worked out good as I think if she had been nicer i would have lingered longer, probably helped her out more than i should after the D whereas now I am happy cutting her off and not dealing with her,


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Well..............pretty ****.
> 
> Came back from my work trip to discover she was at Dinner with my kids and the guy I originally thought she was cheating with back in December which she denied and continues to, apparently our kids are just best friends now and she did him a favor and looked after his kids and they all went and grabbed pizza together after he picked back up. Allegedly i am paranoid and its just kids playing and nothing is going on, today she has been really fast though helping me finalize the Divorce agreement edits and oh so friendly again.
> 
> Last night she was basically telling me I was an a-hole for accusing her and I need to accept she is going to start dating soon anyway and we have basically been divorced 6 months so time to move on.
> 
> I really hope the agreement comes back ASAP to sign before anything else can change.


Wasn't it a month ago..... she had you convinced it was ALL your fault? Scroll back several pages.

She was a SAHM, you handed over your paycheck, she "ruled the roost,"

no one gives that position up without a damn good reason. Hopefully he is a world class con man

who fooled her into thinking he has $$. Come to find out... he doesn't have a pot to piss in or

a window to throw it out of. And he has an XW who grabs every dime he makes.

Trust me (us) MF.... her time is coming.


----------



## farsidejunky

honcho said:


> She became a stranger to you long ago, you just refuse to see it. You need to quit being surprised by her and her actions, all of this should have been anticipated from her. She is going to be friendly right now because she wants out to chase her new "dream" life. Use it to your advantage and get the agreement done and over with.


QFT.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Well..............pretty ****.
> 
> Came back from my work trip to discover she was at Dinner with my kids and the guy I originally thought she was cheating with back in December which she denied and continues to, apparently our kids are just best friends now and she did him a favor and looked after his kids and they all went and grabbed pizza together after he picked back up. Allegedly i am paranoid and its just kids playing and nothing is going on, today she has been really fast though helping me finalize the Divorce agreement edits and oh so friendly again.
> 
> Last night she was basically telling me I was an a-hole for accusing her and I need to accept she is going to start dating soon anyway and we have basically been divorced 6 months so time to move on.
> 
> I really hope the agreement comes back ASAP to sign before anything else can change.


Cheater script followed to the t.

Next up, oh I still care for you. 

I'll care more if you can cut my grass, wash my car and take out the garbage. My other man just can't be bothered with menial chores like that so if you help out a bit ill be your friend!!!!


----------



## Marc878

Chuck71 said:


> Wasn't it a month ago..... she had you convinced it was ALL your fault? Scroll back several pages.
> 
> She was a SAHM, you handed over your paycheck, she "ruled the roost,"
> 
> no one gives that position up without a damn good reason. Hopefully he is a world class con man
> 
> who fooled her into thinking he has $$. Come to find out... he doesn't have a pot to piss in or
> 
> a window to throw it out of. And he has an XW who grabs every dime he makes.
> 
> Trust me (us) MF.... her time is coming.


Go overboard and do more than 50% in a relationship you're guaranteed to get walked on.

Bank on it.


----------



## curious234

she is a manipulating selfish *****, she used sex to keep you intow until she arrange everything. Unfortunately you did not see that clearly. Be angry (positive) and act like an alpha male at least now. Tell her she cannot bring POS in to contact with your kids until divorce. Tell kids how bad their mom behaved. Looks like you kept this betrayal to yourself. Tell everyone. Is the POS single (not it matters to you now. At least you can inform OBS if there is any). These types of guys often lies. Being a beta male has brought you most of this distress. Since POS and WW are local expose this depraving behavior. Do not allow them to move around like nothing happened. Acting like alpha also make your mind strong.


----------



## Joyfull

My impression from reading your thread from the beginning is that your stxw seemed to have a third party influence leading her to Divorce. However, you were adamant that she couldn't be cheating because you didn't see when, where or how. But, you mentioned often that you travel. For me, the traveling, could be the open door. 

Then, I come back to your thread and find that you have found that's she's hanging with a guy you had a gut feeling about after returning from a trip. Interesting. I hope for your truth, your healing, your moving forward that you SEE. There has been outside influence working in this. 

I also really hope that this the hasn't led you two both into an emotionally charged sexual encounter again with each other. This helps nothing!!!!

Hoping they best for you.............


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> Well..............pretty ****.
> 
> Came back from my work trip to discover she was at Dinner with my kids and the guy I originally thought she was cheating with back in December which she denied and continues to, apparently our kids are just best friends now and she did him a favor and looked after his kids and they all went and grabbed pizza together after he picked back up. Allegedly i am paranoid and its just kids playing and nothing is going on, today she has been really fast though helping me finalize the Divorce agreement edits and oh so friendly again.
> 
> Last night she was basically telling me I was an a-hole for accusing her and I need to accept she is going to start dating soon anyway and we have basically been divorced 6 months so time to move on.
> 
> I really hope the agreement comes back ASAP to sign before anything else can change.


Oh my God. This is so incredibly cruel. In my last post I said there had to be an OM, but I hoped for your sake I was wrong. She has lied the whole time. And to arrange this so that you could see her blended Brady Bunch "new family" without you in it. I know we have only heard your side in this thread. I am not sure what you could have done to her to make her hate you this much. Hell has a special place for her for doing this.

I am not sure what you should do now. May God be comforting.


----------



## MovingForward

curious234 said:


> she is a manipulating selfish *****, she used sex to keep you intow until she arrange everything. Unfortunately you did not see that clearly. Be angry (positive) and act like an alpha male at least now. Tell her she cannot bring POS in to contact with your kids until divorce. Tell kids how bad their mom behaved. Looks like you kept this betrayal to yourself. Tell everyone. Is the POS single (not it matters to you now. At least you can inform OBS if there is any). These types of guys often lies. Being a beta male has brought you most of this distress. Since POS and WW are local expose this depraving behavior. Do not allow them to move around like nothing happened. Acting like alpha also make your mind strong.


He is single.


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> Oh my God. This is so incredibly cruel. In my last post I said there had to be an OM, but I hoped for your sake I was wrong. She has lied the whole time. And to arrange this so that you could see her blended Brady Bunch "new family" without you in it. I know we have only heard your side in this thread. I am not sure what you could have done to her to make her hate you this much. Hell has a special place for her for doing this.
> 
> I am not sure what you should do now. May God be comforting.


All I can do is be there for Kids and move on, 2 days before Financial Separation providing Mediator gets Settlement agreement finalized and correct and 2 days before she starts moving out.


----------



## MovingForward

Joyfull said:


> My impression from reading your thread from the beginning is that your stxw seemed to have a third party influence leading her to Divorce. However, you were adamant that she couldn't be cheating because you didn't see when, where or how. But, you mentioned often that you travel. For me, the traveling, could be the open door.
> 
> Then, I come back to your thread and find that you have found that's she's hanging with a guy you had a gut feeling about after returning from a trip. Interesting. I hope for your truth, your healing, your moving forward that you SEE. There has been outside influence working in this.
> 
> I also really hope that this the hasn't led you two both into an emotionally charged sexual encounter again with each other. This helps nothing!!!!
> 
> Hoping they best for you.............


Thanks and no we have kept very separate from each other.

I still don't quite believe it but all the signs are there clear as day.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> All I can do is be there for Kids and move on, 2 days before Financial Separation providing Mediator gets Settlement agreement finalized and correct and 2 days before she starts moving out.


I am looking forward to the day when she moves out. It will be so much better for you, and will help you to move on. Your STBXW is a piece of work.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> I am looking forward to the day when she moves out. It will be so much better for you, and will help you to move on. Your STBXW is a piece of work.


It has gotten a lot easier since i have started talking to people, even without mentioning any details I have been told my many that I gave a lot more than I received back and deserve better. Still an emotional roller coaster at times though but been having some good days.

Had to explain to them at the weekend why I am still going to be there dad because they assumed I was only Dad because I married Mom so if she remarries that 'Dad' will take my place :crying:


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> Had to explain to them at the weekend why I am still going to be there dad because they assumed I was only Dad because I married Mom so if she remarries that 'Dad' will take my place :crying:


Just when I think this can't get any worse... I don't think your children came up with this idea of a replacement dad on their own. I think you need to communicate in writing to your STBXW a short (2-3 sentances) unemotional message that states that the children had this idea and that if she affirms or encourages it in any way you will sue her for alienation of affection to get greater custody.

MF, I simply can't believe how cold she is to you. Why does she hate you?

Is the OM divorced or cheating? If he is divorced, he will probably marry your XW as soon as the ink is dry on your D.


----------



## rockon

MovingForward said:


> Had to explain to them at the weekend why I am still going to be there dad because they assumed I was only Dad because I married Mom so if she remarries that 'Dad' will take my place :crying:


Damn man, that is heartbreaking.


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> Just when I think this can't get any worse... I don't think your children came up with this idea of a replacement dad on their own. I think you need to communicate in writing to your STBXW a short (2-3 sentances) unemotional message that states that the children had this idea and that if she affirms or encourages it in any way you will sue her for alienation of affection to get greater custody.
> 
> MF, I simply can't believe how cold she is to you. Why does she hate you?
> 
> Is the OM divorced or cheating? If he is divorced, he will probably marry your XW as soon as the ink is dry on your D.


They came up with the assumption because 'Mom's' make kids in there bellies and Daddies just marry the mom and become Dad which is what they thought happened, I told her and she spoke to them but they dont quite grasp it still but understand that I can be Dad even if were not married, they asked if i hate her also and if not why dont we still live together so lots of tough questions.

He is D for some time I believe, I would love it if they do M since it would stop Alimony :grin2: and there is noway that is going to happen.

Weirdest part is she see's nothing wrong, she denies it all yet keep putting herself in positions where it looks like something is happening and is defensive when i have asked or mentioned things, i think she is probably full of lust and blinded by it enough to not be able to hide anything too well.

It sure does seem like she hates me with the way she is treating me but I think more just her selfishness so probably not even thinking about trying to hurt me more she just does what she wants and doesn't think. She did all my laundry yesterday LOL so not all hate


----------



## MovingForward

rockon said:


> Damn man, that is heartbreaking.


Yes it was the worst conversation I have ever had and was very hard to explain without going too much into the birds and the bee's for them as far too young, my S8 started it and my D5 walked in and they backed each other up so took some time to get it to sink in.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> It has gotten a lot easier since i have started talking to people, even without mentioning any details I have been told my many that I gave a lot more than I received back and deserve better. Still an emotional roller coaster at times though but been having some good days.
> 
> Had to explain to them at the weekend why I am still going to be there dad because they assumed I was only Dad because I married Mom so if she remarries that 'Dad' will take my place :crying:


You're going to have to continue to emphasize this to them, over and over again. If they got this idea because she planted it in their head, she might not back off and mind continue telling them this BS.

Do they have any friends whose parents are divorced? That might help them understand.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> You're going to have to continue to emphasize this to them, over and over again. If they got this idea because she planted it in their head, she might not back off and mind continue telling them this BS.
> 
> Do they have any friends whose parents are divorced? That might help them understand.


They do not that I know off, I used there Grandparents(her side) as an example but they assumed that her parents where still married just had different houses and her Step dad was just a grandpa, funny how kids view life.

The kids do seem to becoming more clingy to me, I took them out all Fri-Sun without really seeing STBXW and they did not say a word, she took them out yesterday and they wouldn't stop hugging me and wanted to make sure I would be at house when they got back.

I don't think she has said anything she may not care about me but she does care about the kids and has never put down my parenting, plus everyone I have told so far has mentioned that she is going to struggle on her own with them as I do most things with them and have an easier time with them.


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> They came up with the assumption because 'Mom's' make kids in there bellies and Daddies just marry the mom and become Dad which is what they thought happened, I told her and she spoke to them but they dont quite grasp it still but understand that I can be Dad even if were not married, they asked if i hate her also and if not why dont we still live together so lots of tough questions.
> 
> ...


Well here is a suggestion, maybe a dumb one, I don't know. Since it is too early for a biology lesson :lol: tell your kids their dad is and will always be the person who was their dad on the day they were born, namely you, and that it is legally established on their birth certificates. Show them a copy of their birth certificates with your name on it as father. Tell them you are their one and only dad and that will never change.

[Of course, disclosure... I have an adopted son and my name is on his "official", but not original, birth certificate as father. But I am not his biological father, whose identity is not known to anyone as birth mom died in childbirth, but since he was adopted at 3 weeks, I am the only dad he has ever known. We put his DNA on 23 & me and other such site to see if any blood relatives popped up, but so far only 5th cousins (dubious connection) ]


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> Well here is a suggestion, maybe a dumb one, I don't know. Since it is too early for a biology lesson :lol: tell your kids their dad is and will always be the person who was their dad on the day they were born, namely you, and that it is legally established on their birth certificates. Show them a copy of their birth certificates with your name on it as father. Tell them you are their one and only dad and that will never change.
> 
> [Of course, disclosure... I have an adopted son and my name is on his "official", but not original, birth certificate as father. But I am not his biological father, whose identity is not known to anyone as birth mom died in childbirth, but since he was adopted at 3 weeks, I am the only dad he has ever known. We put his DNA on 23 & me and other such site to see if any blood relatives popped up, but so far only 5th cousins (dubious connection) ]


That is actually a great Idea............did not even think about it but would be very reassuring for them to know i think.


----------



## MovingForward

Not been here for a while so thought I would provide a quick update.

She moved out, Kids have adjusted really well and do not seem to notice, she has been openly hanging around with POSOM and a lot of her Friends are disgusted in her, i saw a load of them Saturday night in a bar and they were all shocked and very nice towards me.

We should have signed but had the most incompetent mediator ever and she has ignored most of his emails so i have been fixing all errors and we are 99.9% there.

I found a sense of relief(hope it lasts), been busy with my friends just having a good time and if all goes well will be signing tomorrow and be done.


----------



## Edmund

God bless you and your children, Moving Forward. With closure now, maybe you can look to the future and the possibilities it hold for you. Start a new thread sometime and let us know how you and the kids are. Good luck!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> Not been here for a while so thought I would provide a quick update.
> 
> She moved out, Kids have adjusted really well and do not seem to notice, she has been openly hanging around with POSOM and a lot of her Friends are disgusted in her, i saw a load of them Saturday night in a bar and they were all shocked and very nice towards me.
> 
> We should have signed but had the most incompetent mediator ever and she has ignored most of his emails so i have been fixing all errors and we are 99.9% there.
> 
> I found a sense of relief(hope it lasts), been busy with my friends just having a good time and if all goes well will be signing tomorrow and be done.


Thanks for updating! I'm glad you seem to be doing well, and your kids, too. Also glad to see that STBX is getting a little karma thrown her way via her friends. My friend who cheated is finding herself at the receiving end of some not so nice treatment from some family and friends. She really just doesnt seem to get what it is she has done...

I hope things continue on the upswing for you!


----------



## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks for updating! I'm glad you seem to be doing well, and your kids, too. Also glad to see that STBX is getting a little karma thrown her way via her friends. My friend who cheated is finding herself at the receiving end of some not so nice treatment from some family and friends. She really just doesnt seem to get what it is she has done...
> 
> I hope things continue on the upswing for you!


Agreed. The above is why betrayed spouses are encouraged to expose their cheating partner to friends and family. While the betrayed partner can't make the cheater see the error of her ways (and usually is in no emotional position to do so), friends and family can be quite effective in this respect.

In your case, this wasn't really possible, since you found out about the POSOM too late, but she will still feel the repercussions regardless.

Glad to hear you and the kiddos are doing well. Please continue to update us!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks for updating! I'm glad you seem to be doing well, and your kids, too. Also glad to see that STBX is getting a little karma thrown her way via her friends. My friend who cheated is finding herself at the receiving end of some not so nice treatment from some family and friends. She really just doesnt seem to get what it is she has done...
> 
> I hope things continue on the upswing for you!





FeministInPink said:


> Agreed. The above is why betrayed spouses are encouraged to expose their cheating partner to friends and family. While the betrayed partner can't make the cheater see the error of her ways (and usually is in no emotional position to do so), friends and family can be quite effective in this respect.
> 
> In your case, this wasn't really possible, since you found out about the POSOM too late, but she will still feel the repercussions regardless.
> 
> Glad to hear you and the kiddos are doing well. Please continue to update us!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes I was shocked she pulled it off, wish I had seen the truth earlier but I cant change the past.

Have been happy with the amount of support I have received from people, I was quite embarrassed and ashamed that I was cheated on but people are not looking at it as a reflection of my character and just seeing it as the pair of them being POS, I had feared i would lose a lot of friends and mutual acquaintances but quite the opposite I have been embraced more.

My Son has become much more nurturing of my Daughter so maybe that is his coping mechanism but the pair of them have become closer it seems and generally they are just the same happy kids they have always been.

Thanks everyone for all the support and advice there are numerous names who have continued to reach out over the last 6 months and been there from my beginning threat so thanks to you all.

Once I finally sign and I really hope it is soon I will start a new post on Life after Divorce and hope it is all positive experiences for the next wave of people who are going through the same thing to give them some future hope.

Thanks again


----------



## FeministInPink

If you start a new thread in Life After Divorce, make sure you link to it in this thread so the TAMers who have followed your story thus far can continue to do so.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> If you start a new thread in Life After Divorce, make sure you link to it in this thread so the TAMers who have followed your story thus far can continue to do so.


I will do, not sure when that is going to start but I will for sure do it.

I have always been disappointed with the lack of positive posts in the life after divorce forum and often looked there for some good but did not find much.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> I will do, not sure when that is going to start but I will for sure do it.
> 
> I have always been disappointed with the lack of positive posts in the life after divorce forum and often looked there for some good but did not find much.


Then make some positive posts 

I know what you mean, though. A lot of people that have positive post-divorce lives tend to move on and away from TAM because they don't need it anymore. I'm pretty happy post-divorce, but I stay because I like being a know-it-all 

ETA: I am VERY happy... I feel that "pretty" downplays it. I've had my struggles, but in all seriousness, my post-divorce years have been some of the best of my life.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MovingForward said:


> I will do, not sure when that is going to start but I will for sure do it.
> 
> I have always been disappointed with the lack of positive posts in the life after divorce forum and often looked there for some good but did not find much.


LAD seems to be more of a vent and help area than an actual positive one. What you should do is look for the longer CWI threads, sucks I know, then look at the end of the thread. It seems most posters just continue their original or second thread with updates, as they post less, instead of start one in LAD.


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Then make some positive posts
> 
> I know what you mean, though. A lot of people that have positive post-divorce lives tend to move on and away from TAM because they don't need it anymore. I'm pretty happy post-divorce, but I stay because I like being a know-it-all
> 
> ETA: I am VERY happy... I feel that "pretty" downplays it. I've had my struggles, but in all seriousness, my post-divorce years have been some of the best of my life.


I hope to get happy, I feel like I am just a little numb and OK but not exactly 'happy'. I plan to stick around this has been a tremendous help for me and hope my experience can help make it easier for someone else down the road.
@FeministInPink think you commented on my first ever post


----------



## Marc878

It's all about how you handle it. Lose a cheater and you gain a life.

If you can pull a hard 180. Not just talk about it but do it you'll be fine. If you linger you'll just stay in limbo longer..


It is all about how you handle your life and your mindset going forward. Totally up to you.

Get moving and never look back because there is nothing there except a waste of your time


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> I hope to get happy, I feel like I am just a little numb and OK but not exactly 'happy'. I plan to stick around this has been a tremendous help for me and hope my experience can help make it easier for someone else down the road.
> 
> @FeministInPink think you commented on my first ever post


Yes, I believe I did!

And as @Marc878 says, if you do the 180, you'll find happy again. It's all about frame of mind and distance/time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

FeministInPink said:


> Then make some positive posts
> 
> I know what you mean, though. A lot of people that have positive post-divorce lives tend to move on and away from TAM because they don't need it anymore. I'm pretty happy post-divorce, but I stay* because I like being a know-it-all ;*)
> 
> ETA: I am VERY happy... I feel that "pretty" downplays it. I've had my struggles, but in all seriousness, my post-divorce years have been some of the best of my life.


Yeah......yeah......yeah...... LOL. All in all MF, FIP will 2x4 you if it is needed.

Life after Divorce is a mixed bag. My Crossroads II covered from 2013-15. I promised to post

the good, bad, and the ugly.... and I did. Some on LAD post because they can not get over

their X. Everyone has their own time frame. Some just post when they have custody issues and

not about their positive times. The LaD threads aren't as "electric" as the GTDoS or CWI threads.

MF... stick around and give advice to people entering the D process, offer your insight, wisdom.

I figured I would leave TAM a couple months after my D but there were a few threads I was really

tied to.... few guys who started their journey when I did. My D was 60 days, no issues.

They weren't as lucky. One R'd, one D but is with great gal now, one is in process of an R,

and the other vanished like a fart at a baking soda factory. But I still think he is dating the

princess from Aruba *wink*. Years later.... I still stay in contact with these guys, not "often"

but if they needed to bounce ideas on situations, know my number. And the same goes for me 

if I need to bounce ideas. One talked me down from a panic the night before mom's open heart

surgery, one was there when I was borderlined on breaking up / kicking out my 4th love.

One was there when mom devolved with dementia and reverted back to an entitled teenage 

princess, knowing she was dying in the process. And I still chat with the Jedi Master, Yoda. Always enlightening, 

funny, even comical. I back chat with many who came after me.... pay it forward.

If you have vast knowledge of hardships you went through, would you not want to spread this?


----------



## Chuck71

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LAD seems to be more of a vent and help area than an actual positive one. What you should do is look for the longer CWI threads, sucks I know, then look at the end of the thread. It seems most posters just continue their original or second thread with updates, as they post less, instead of start one in LAD.


That is correct! When I started Crossroads III with a vent, I was considered a.... drunkard.

I rarely / ever post drama. Must be my downfall LMFAO


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Yeah......yeah......yeah...... LOL. All in all MF, FIP will 2x4 you if it is needed.
> 
> Life after Divorce is a mixed bag. My Crossroads II covered from 2013-15. I promised to post
> 
> the good, bad, and the ugly.... and I did. Some on LAD post because they can not get over
> 
> their X. Everyone has their own time frame. Some just post when they have custody issues and
> 
> not about their positive times. The LaD threads aren't as "electric" as the GTDoS or CWI threads.
> 
> MF... stick around and give advice to people entering the D process, offer your insight, wisdom.
> 
> I figured I would leave TAM a couple months after my D but there were a few threads I was really
> 
> tied to.... few guys who started their journey when I did. My D was 60 days, no issues.
> 
> They weren't as lucky. One R'd, one D but is with great gal now, one is in process of an R,
> 
> and the other vanished like a fart at a baking soda factory. But I still think he is dating the
> 
> princess from Aruba *wink*. Years later.... I still stay in contact with these guys, not "often"
> 
> but if they needed to bounce ideas on situations, know my number. And the same goes for me
> 
> if I need to bounce ideas. One talked me down from a panic the night before mom's open heart
> 
> surgery, one was there when I was borderlined on breaking up / kicking out my 4th love.
> 
> One was there when mom devolved with dementia and reverted back to an entitled teenage
> 
> princess, knowing she was dying in the process. And I still chat with the Jedi Master, Yoda. Always enlightening,
> 
> funny, even comical. I back chat with many who came after me.... pay it forward.
> 
> If you have vast knowledge of hardships you went through, would you not want to spread this?


I plan to stick around, going to need more advice in future and also shout at new comers making the same mistakes i did.

Every situation is unique but the same signs are present with cheaters, everyone called mine back in January, everyone told me she is cheating but i did not believe it, I could not accept it, i assumed it was my fault and I was a terrible person, my wife was such a good honest person she would never cheat on me after 12 years!!!!! I was wrong about it all.

I refused to listen for months and months and made things so much worst for myself, If I had listened to @Marc878 from the beginning who was very vocal to the fact she was cheating then two things could have happened.

1) I would have exposed the affair, filed for divorce and she would have come back like she did each time I pulled away from her and stopped begging and we might have been able to work things out.

2) I would have done all the above, already have been divorced and not have felt so bad about myself all along.


----------



## WasDecimated

MovingForward, don't beat yourself up over this. I did the same thing...lots of us did. I blamed myself and felt I wasn't good enough. The folks here tried to tell me my XWW was cheating. They gave me great advice. I dragged my feet and dealt with everything in my own naive way. I too have many regrets. The best thing is to do is put it all behind you as soon as possible and move forward. Time and distance will be your best friends.


----------



## MovingForward

Decimated said:


> MovingForward, don't beat yourself up over this. I did the same thing...lots of us did. I blamed myself and felt I wasn't good enough. The folks here tried to tell me my XWW was cheating. They gave me great advice. I dragged my feet and dealt with everything in my own naive way. I too have many regrets. The best thing is to do is put it all behind you as soon as possible and move forward. Time and distance will be your best friends.


Yes i know, I am as my name says moving forward with Life, getting used to new routine but still miss some aspects of old life.

It is so weird how we are blinded at the time and just cant see people for who they really are, best thing I have done is avoid any and all contact with her and carry on my life without giving her a second thought.

I am sure if i bump into her and the POSOM at some point some hurt and feelings will return but hopefully by that time I will be in such a better place it will be short lived.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Here's the problem which gets people into trouble. Reminiscing and missing are okay, wallowing and dwelling are not. The first two lead to the latter two when, you spend too much time on your own and in your head.


----------



## MovingForward

New Thread on Life after Divorce since singed and single 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/385497-first-week-after-divorce-build-up.html


----------



## MovingForward

MovingForward said:


> Rumors and accusations are normally enough don't always need cold hard evidence,* if this guy pops up straight after D then I will know I was right about my hunch.
> *
> Not sure how much energy I will even want to waste on it though at the end (hopefully not a lot), if* it is the guy I am thinking though I will be pissed as we know a lot of mutual people so I would assume others know who know me and i feel like it makes me a laughing stock. *
> 
> If its a random dude who I dont know I can't do much about it and just hope he is not an ass hole to my Children.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how legal that is and I would be very worried about getting caught.


Just had a reread of my post and funny how this exact scenario came up.

Other people had similar suspicions to me and it was not until I started talking to people and they shared there side and i shared mine did it all make sense for everyone. 

I guess going forward i will always go with my Gut i was right about who and exactly how it would go down, too late to do anything now but may have been able to use it as leverage before I had signed the Divorce papers.


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> Just had a reread of my post and funny how this exact scenario came up.
> 
> Other people had similar suspicions to me and it was not until I started talking to people and they shared there side and i shared mine did it all make sense for everyone.
> 
> I guess going forward i will always go with my Gut i was right about who and exactly how it would go down, too late to do anything now but may have been able to use it as leverage before I had signed the Divorce papers.


Amazing how we always know.

Amazing how strong the urge to believe the gaslight bull****.


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> I plan to stick around, going to need more advice in future and also shout at new comers making the same mistakes i did.
> 
> Every situation is unique but the same signs are present with cheaters, everyone called mine back in January, everyone told me she is cheating but i did not believe it, I could not accept it, i assumed it was my fault and I was a terrible person, my wife was such a good honest person she would never cheat on me after 12 years!!!!! I was wrong about it all.
> 
> I refused to listen for months and months and made things so much worst for myself, If I had listened to @Marc878 from the beginning who was very vocal to the fact she was cheating then two things could have happened.
> 
> 1) I would have exposed the affair, filed for divorce and she would have come back like she did each time I pulled away from her and stopped begging and we might have been able to work things out.
> 
> 2) I would have done all the above, already have been divorced and not have felt so bad about myself all along.


This is why some of us are so blunt. It's not that we are mean or piling on, it's that you guys are hurting yourselves but don't see it. But I think we all get it. This stuff is traumatic it takes time to come to terms with it. 

Don't feel bad about losing your wife, there are people who have it in them to cheat, and people who don't. Some cheaters change and become good people it's true, but it's really a crap shoot. Generally the people who cheat are just not worth the effort. And it's not just the cheating, usually there is a pattern of many other things in their lives that are dysfunctional. Even then you see many BS that have to live with the aftermath and their WS continued effort just to do stuff that comes normal to a healthy person.

Work on you and what to look for and if you find the right one one day you will be happy to be rid of her. You find a healthy person and the difference will be stark and wonderful.


----------



## MovingForward

sokillme said:


> This is why some of us are so blunt. It's not that we are mean or piling on, it's that you guys are hurting yourselves but don't see it. But I think we all get it. This stuff is traumatic it takes time to come to terms with it.
> 
> Don't feel bad about losing your wife, there are people who have it in them to cheat, and people who don't. Some cheaters change and become good people it's true, but it's really a crap shoot. Generally the people who cheat are just not worth the effort. And it's not just the cheating, usually there is a pattern of many other things in their lives that are dysfunctional. Even then you see many BS that have to live with the aftermath and their WS continued effort just to do stuff that comes normal to a healthy person.
> 
> Work on you and what to look for and if you find the right one one day you will be happy to be rid of her. You find a healthy person and the difference will be stark and wonderful.


Yes coming to terms with it and accepting it is what it is, is the hardest part. Never want to admit it could happen to 'you' was in shock and it takes a while to sink in.


----------



## MovingForward

ReturntoZero said:


> Amazing how we always know.
> 
> Amazing how strong the urge to believe the gaslight bull****.


I think I believed it as prior to this I just could not ever see her cheating or lying I thought I really knew her but i guess i was wrong all along


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> I think I believed it as prior to this I just could not ever see her cheating or lying I thought I really knew her but i guess i was wrong all along


I would encourage you to continue logging on here and discussing what's up with you. Stay in this particular subforum if you wish.

We're pretty good at helping people spot what they should run away from in potential partners.

Codependence is difficult to overcome right away. You've taken a good first step towards a larger world, but it's easy to fall into bad habits - especially with "exciting" new partners.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

MovingForward said:


> I think I believed it as prior to this I just could not ever see her cheating or lying I thought I really knew her but i guess i was wrong all along




A very very common viewpoint.

I suspect the women in these cases put all their eggs in one basket, focus on a single provider, and through their actions show that he's number one

The problem is that he's really number one provider. Providers are (or appear to be) everywhere. So once she locks onto a new one, her eyes are open to all sorts of possibilities for an upgrade. Since the guys who f with married women are man-*****s anyway and know women like this are easy to pick off with even cheesy and rosy lines, they can easily appear to be an upgrade.

So once the opportunist WS locks onto a new provider, the old one has no bearing on her life at all, and just becomes old baggage that is keeping her from the upgrade.

BS is left with his mouth gaping open wondering what the hell happened???? Went from number one to a complete zero in 10 seconds flat.

Trust me, you misinterpreted her happiness with you - she was just content in her situation with you. Situation versus you as s person. Once you see that, you'll realize the prize you won with her was just the door prize to put a stupid smile on your face but it never worked properly.

Men do the same thing but substitute provider with arm charm. They reek of desperation when they walk around with a belly, jet black hair or toupee, and a 23 year old blond, vapid child on their arm. The girls have as much devotion to the men as the man *****s have to women like your STBXW.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero

TheTruthHurts said:


> A very very common viewpoint.
> 
> I suspect the women in these cases put all their eggs in one basket, focus on a single provider, and through their actions show that he's number one
> 
> The problem is that he's really number one provider. Providers are (or appear to be) everywhere. So once she locks onto a new one, her eyes are open to all sorts of possibilities for an upgrade. Since the guys who f with married women are man-*****s anyway and know women like this are easy to pick off with even cheesy and rosy lines, they can easily appear to be an upgrade.
> 
> So once the opportunist WS locks onto a new provider, the old one has no bearing on her life at all, and just becomes old baggage that is keeping her from the upgrade.
> 
> BS is left with his mouth gaping open wondering what the hell happened???? Went from number one to a complete zero in 10 seconds flat.
> 
> Trust me, you misinterpreted her happiness with you - she was just content in her situation with you. Situation versus you as s person. Once you see that, you'll realize the prize you won with her was just the door prize to put a stupid smile on your face but it never worked properly.
> 
> Men do the same thing but substitute provider with arm charm. They reek of desperation when they walk around with a belly, jet black hair or toupee, and a 23 year old blond, vapid child on their arm. The girls have as much devotion to the men as the man *****s have to women like your STBXW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm reminded of a conversation with an old friend.

Me: Hey, what happened to that nubile young hottie you were with last time?

Him: We broke up

Me: Why?

Him: We didn't have much in common.

Me: Like what?

Him: The 80's


----------



## Chuck71

The bottom line is it is not one spouse's job to make the other happy. If one spouse wants the other

to make them happy, try getting an aquarium, or a dog, a cat.

If one falls into this trap, they lose their identity of their "self." When the other notices this,

they lose respect for them. Ergo why many are here.


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> I think I believed it as prior to this I just could not ever see her cheating or lying I thought I really knew her but i guess i was wrong all along


MF:
I don't even know you or your XW, but I knew she had another man from post #1 of this thread. How could I know? You told us. Apparently you did not know, but you told us. You said...

"for some reason unbeknown to me she walked in told me not to be nice to her"

That is when I knew.

Don't be nice to me means: " I have made up my mind to divorce you and I know that is going to hurt you very badly, and while I don't really care about your feelings (you'll get over me), I still for some reason feel guilty and guilty is a bad feeling. I don't want to feel guilty, so *don't be nice to me* - instead be mean or angry or nasty so I can feel justified in hurting you."

That sentence was followed by her urgently wanting to start some 60 day filing window, one day after still considering a future with you. That told me she had received an ultimatum from POSOM. Prior to that day, she was hoping to keep you and children and have her affair on the side (some here say "cake eating"). But POSOM probably said hey, I will not wait around forever for you, if you want me you have to get gouing on the divorce right away.

Moving Forward I wish there was something I could say to ease your pain. I haven't experienced this type of marital situation first hand (nor would I want to), but have had serious life events that caused similar shock (such as getting the diagnosis for my autistic son at his age 3 - he is now 27). Only passage of time helps, along with new pursuits (in your case, maybe a new woman friend). God bless you.

P.S. I think maybe you have more followers on this thread then the one you have in LAD.


----------



## MovingForward

So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it. 

Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side.


----------



## turnera

Document, document, document.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
> 
> Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side.


It always amazes me how quick they go to the restraining order threat.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
> 
> *Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side*.


There's not much you can do. She's dirty enough to file an RO against you. Better keep a VAR handy. You should have already gotten one.

The worse thing you can do is engage her. 

If it were me I'd cut out the skype and phone call sessions. You have your time and she has hers. It'll make this a lot easier. 

You can't control a thing on her end but you'd be smart to control yours. Zero interaction exept text only. Keep those short and to the point.

You are wanting to argue about something you cannot win. Quit wasting your time.


----------



## Marc878

She's told you and shown you she doesn't give a damn about you or what you think. 

It's past time to take yourself out of the equation.

If you're trying to appeal to her sense of fairness you are **** out of luck.

Wise up to where you are and get on with your life.

All you're doing is keeping yourself in turmoil at this time and you're getting nothing out of it.


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side.




She wants the children 100% of the time. Please don't let that happen. Listen to the folks on here about how you can fight off the coming charges that you are too dangerous to parent them. I don't know the answer but I know that it is coming at you (restraining order). POSOM is coaching her. She kicked you out of her life and plugged POSOM right in to your place, picking up his kids part time in the process. Be alert if your kids refer to him as "dad" or similar. POSOM deliberately broke your family up, which is a horrible thing but your XW was complicit. I know you love/loved her, but really, what kind of woman does this to her husband? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
> 
> Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side.


She has replaced Joe Montana with Bobby Twinkletoes. On paper and at first... things sail 

right along. Then the wheels come off. That is the power of disillusion. 

If she is breaking court order.... use your attorney. Document what you said, what she said.

Have the attorney present it to judge. No judge will listen to you, use the proper channels.

What were 99% of current judges previous occupation? 

MF.... if you hear anything.... hear this..... Do not put it past her to have POSOM gone when you

child swap, she will push your buttons to get into an argument, right after you leave she will

tear her top, inflict red marks on her body and..... call the police. Who they gonna believe?

They might you... after a few days in jail, a RO / OoP, the time it will take to get this dismissed,

and in the meantime..... try to get your kids more. Your kids are young.... she's playing the long game.

Getting in the mud with her will........... ????? Play smarter.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

MovingForward said:


> So I got back from my 2 week trip and me and the kids had a blast and did not want to come back it was pure bliss not having to have any dealings at all with my X. Dropped them off Saturday morning and managed to get in and out with barely a word or glance but any interaction at all no matter how small is painful and makes me feel very uncomfortable. She is dropping them off in tonight and I have knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
> 
> Her and POSOM are together constantly with our Children and I expressed concern about her breaking the court agreement and she threatened me with a restraining order for harassment so we are Zero contact even to do with kids from my side.


I cant remember, are you guys divorced now? If she is breaking the court agreement by having the OM around your kids, then go and file contempt of court or whatever applies here. That isnt harassment, that is demanding she follow the court's ruling. If you arent divorced yet, you may have to keep a distance and document the crap out of everything until you go to court. Man she is a b1tch.


----------



## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> I cant remember, are you guys divorced now? If she is breaking the court agreement by having the OM around your kids, then go and file contempt of court or whatever applies here. That isnt harassment, that is demanding she follow the court's ruling. If you arent divorced yet, you may have to keep a distance and document the crap out of everything until you go to court. Man she is a b1tch.


Yes Divorced and she is breaking order but I was advised it is dam near impossible to prove when the relationship started so its a he said/she said scenario and not worth pursuing. 



Chuck71 said:


> and in the meantime..... try to get your kids more. Your kids are young.... she's playing the long game.
> 
> Getting in the mud with her will........... ????? Play smarter.


We spend great time together when they are with me it is perfect, I just ignore when they are not and do my own thing I cant stop her doing anything


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> It always amazes me how quick they go to the restraining order threat.


Yep I should have seen it coming, I told her Zero contact going forward and she send me about 5 emails saying she wants a civil and friendly relationship and it is my fault we cant have that blah blah blah and she is still willing to wipe slate clean despite how horrible I have been, she is delusional or manioulative or both.



Marc878 said:


> There's not much you can do. She's dirty enough to file an RO against you. Better keep a VAR handy. You should have already gotten one.
> 
> The worse thing you can do is engage her.
> 
> If it were me I'd cut out the skype and phone call sessions. You have your time and she has hers. It'll make this a lot easier.
> 
> You can't control a thing on her end but you'd be smart to control yours. Zero interaction exept text only. Keep those short and to the point.
> 
> You are wanting to argue about something you cannot win. Quit wasting your time.


I set up the kids so we can call each other direct and miss her out.



Marc878 said:


> She's told you and shown you she doesn't give a damn about you or what you think.
> 
> It's past time to take yourself out of the equation.
> 
> If you're trying to appeal to her sense of fairness you are **** out of luck.
> 
> Wise up to where you are and get on with your life.
> 
> All you're doing is keeping yourself in turmoil at this time and you're getting nothing out of it.


I am Zero contact even drops off just ignore her and leave it is awkward but better than alternative. 



Edmund said:


> She wants the children 100% of the time. Please don't let that happen. Listen to the folks on here about how you can fight off the coming charges that you are too dangerous to parent them. I don't know the answer but I know that it is coming at you (restraining order). POSOM is coaching her. She kicked you out of her life and plugged POSOM right in to your place, picking up his kids part time in the process. Be alert if your kids refer to him as "dad" or similar. POSOM deliberately broke your family up, which is a horrible thing but your XW was complicit. I know you love/loved her, but really, what kind of woman does this to her husband?
> 
> i am avoiding all and any contact/communication to ensure that cannot happen she is getting nothing from me, no text, updates, conversations, discussion and I refuse to enter her place I wait outside for the children to come to me and leave with them.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I never saw this in my life at all, didn't expect to be divorced, cheated and lied to, manipulated, used and then have to have Zero Contact with my X due to her acting like this.


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> It always amazes me how quick they go to the restraining order threat.


Yep I should have seen it coming, I told her Zero contact going forward and she send me about 5 emails saying she wants a civil and friendly relationship and it is my fault we cant have that blah blah blah and she is still willing to wipe slate clean despite how horrible I have been, she is delusional or manioulative or both.



Marc878 said:


> There's not much you can do. She's dirty enough to file an RO against you. Better keep a VAR handy. You should have already gotten one.
> 
> The worse thing you can do is engage her.
> 
> If it were me I'd cut out the skype and phone call sessions. You have your time and she has hers. It'll make this a lot easier.
> 
> You can't control a thing on her end but you'd be smart to control yours. Zero interaction except text only. Keep those short and to the point.
> 
> You are wanting to argue about something you cannot win. Quit wasting your time.


I set up the kids so we can call each other direct and miss her out.



Marc878 said:


> She's told you and shown you she doesn't give a damn about you or what you think.
> 
> It's past time to take yourself out of the equation.
> 
> If you're trying to appeal to her sense of fairness you are **** out of luck.
> 
> Wise up to where you are and get on with your life.
> 
> All you're doing is keeping yourself in turmoil at this time and you're getting nothing out of it.


I am Zero contact even drops off just ignore her and leave it is awkward but better than alternative. 



Edmund said:


> She wants the children 100% of the time. Please don't let that happen. Listen to the folks on here about how you can fight off the coming charges that you are too dangerous to parent them. I don't know the answer but I know that it is coming at you (restraining order). POSOM is coaching her. She kicked you out of her life and plugged POSOM right in to your place, picking up his kids part time in the process. Be alert if your kids refer to him as "dad" or similar. POSOM deliberately broke your family up, which is a horrible thing but your XW was complicit. I know you love/loved her, but really, what kind of woman does this to her husband?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I am avoiding all and any contact/communication to ensure that cannot happen she is getting nothing from me, no text, updates, conversations, discussion and I refuse to enter her place I wait outside for the children to come to me and leave with them.

I never saw this in my life at all, didn't expect to be divorced, cheated and lied to, manipulated, used and then have to have Zero Contact with my X due to her acting like this.


----------



## Marc878

stay hard 180. It's your best way forward. You don't need a low class ***** in your life.


----------



## Marc878

Right now awkward is good. If you're smart you'll stay there.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> stay hard 180. It's your best way forward. You don't need a low class ***** in your life.


Going dark is the best thing ever, I felt so good on vacation not having to have a single thing to do with her, I wish I had done this months ago but i think I was too worried about making her mad and still in the back of my mind hoping things would change, I was in a weak weak mindset.


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> Yep I should have seen it coming, I told her Zero contact going forward and she send me about 5 emails saying she wants a civil and friendly relationship and it is my fault we cant have that blah blah blah and she is still willing to wipe slate clean despite how horrible I have been, she is delusional or manioulative or both.


These emails are bait, she fishing hoping you respond so she can say she was "trying" to be reasonable but your off your rocker and she is afraid or some such nonsense. No matter what, don't respond. She will probably escalate this to texts or calls and you just have to ignore and yes she will probably use the guise of contacting you about the kids to get you to engage.

Never underestimate how low they will sink to get what they want.


----------



## Marc878

Definition of friend = loyal, trustworthy and honest.

Snakes are pretty but they are poisonous and they bite.


----------



## Marc878

Chuck71 said:


> The bottom line is it is not one spouse's job to make the other happy. If one spouse wants the other
> 
> to make them happy, try getting an aquarium, or a dog, a cat.
> 
> *If one falls into this trap, they lose their identity of their "self." When the other notices this,
> 
> they lose respect for them.[B/] Ergo why many are here.*


*

MF this was you. In the future you do your 50% and expect 50% in return or you're liable to end up going through this again.

Mr Nice Guys get walked on regularly.*


----------



## MovingForward

honcho said:


> These emails are bait, she fishing hoping you respond so she can say she was "trying" to be reasonable but your off your rocker and she is afraid or some such nonsense. No matter what, don't respond. She will probably escalate this to texts or calls and you just have to ignore and yes she will probably use the guise of contacting you about the kids to get you to engage.
> 
> Never underestimate how low they will sink to get what they want.


Even her email threatening restraining order was filled with false allegations such as intimidation and caused her mental distress it was such a load of crap, she even mentioned needing to create a safe environment for the children LOL she is mental.

so strange how people can just turn. She tells people we are being civil lol I despise her and have nothing nice to say ever.

Her POSOM has still not been announced people were asking me why they are still keeping it secret when people keep catching them together.


----------



## Chuck71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post

and in the meantime..... try to get your kids more. Your kids are young.... she's playing the long game.

Getting in the mud with her will........... ????? Play smarter.


We spend great time together when they are with me it is perfect, I just ignore when they are not and do my own thing I cant stop her doing anything




You are a Brit, I should have worded this different. Your XW will try and get the kids more.

That is her long game. "Getting in the mud" means she will play dirty... whenever needed.

Once her and POSOM get settled in, she will want the kids as much as possible. That is where

the dirty play will ramp up. They're going to "play house" for awhile. That's what cheaters do.

It won't last. But in the meantime, ignore her pathetic BS, devote time to you n kids,

you have many years you lost to her by "making her happy," make yourself happy for a change.

Watch out for the texts about kids, they will be followed by six paragraph anger dumps.

She has to blame you...... she sure as sheet will not blame herself.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> MF this was you. In the future you do your 50% and expect 50% in return or you're liable to end up going through this again.
> 
> Mr Nice Guys get walked on regularly.


Yes was me for sure. Regaining my identity slowly just wish it had not had to come to this,


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post
> 
> and in the meantime..... try to get your kids more. Your kids are young.... she's playing the long game.
> 
> Getting in the mud with her will........... ????? Play smarter.
> 
> 
> We spend great time together when they are with me it is perfect, I just ignore when they are not and do my own thing I cant stop her doing anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a Brit, I should have worded this different. Your XW will try and get the kids more.
> 
> That is her long game. "Getting in the mud" means she will play dirty... whenever needed.
> 
> Once her and POSOM get settled in, she will want the kids as much as possible. That is where
> 
> the dirty play will ramp up. They're going to "play house" for awhile. That's what cheaters do.
> 
> It won't last. But in the meantime, ignore her pathetic BS, devote time to you n kids,
> 
> you have many years you lost to her by "making her happy," make yourself happy for a change.
> 
> Watch out for the texts about kids, they will be followed by six paragraph anger dumps.
> 
> She has to blame you...... she sure as sheet will not blame herself.


funny i have received a few texts like that since the divorce complaining about the kids and how i need to take action just like when we were married.

No contact is the only way for me ignore everything and only time be available if she wants me to have kids on her time or she has to cover for me for work with them


----------



## turnera

You're keeping copies of those texts, right?


----------



## MovingForward

turnera said:


> You're keeping copies of those texts, right?


I have everything she has sent me, funny that she keeps all my stuff also. 

Have IC tonight which I am looking forward to need a good rant.


----------



## MovingForward

w


----------



## MovingForward

MovingForward said:


> Today is a tough day and no particular reason why.
> 
> Had a few days of feeling hopeful but somehow getting images in my head of her with someone else keeps popping up and it is bothering me a lot, also looking way too far into the future and worrying about another guy moving in with the Children.
> 
> I really wish I would see the different scenarios in the future and what I need to do for the best one for me, confusion is making it hard to think straight on one hand I really want to stay together and throw myself into MC with her and on there other side I cannot disrespect myself like that and allow her to control this process and just go along for the ride and wait for her to decide what to do so I end up stuck in no mans land sometimes.


Old Post but like to reread.

For anyone going through this scenario about partner being with new person and new guy with children, this was my biggest fear and crushed me mentally and emotionally but i made it out to be so much worse in my head than the reality. I had no say in who she was with as she was not with me anymore, her time with the children so I have no say if the other guy is around. It was tough at the beginning but once I saw her for who she really was i got over it very fast. And the kids like spending time with the OM but I will always be dad and that will never change.

How you imagine is probably 100 times worse than the reality. Whenever I read back my old posts I barely recognize myself in them and it sounds like someone else.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Old Post but like to reread.
> 
> For anyone going through this scenario about partner being with new person and new guy with children, this was my biggest fear and crushed me mentally and emotionally but i made it out to be so much worse in my head than the reality. I had no say in who she was with as she was not with me anymore, her time with the children so I have no say if the other guy is around. It was tough at the beginning but once I saw her for who she really was i got over it very fast. And the kids like spending time with the OM but I will always be dad and that will never change.
> 
> How you imagine is probably 100 times worse than the reality. Whenever I read back my old posts I barely recognize myself in them and it sounds like someone else.


Normal....... completely. Your mind plays tricks on you. You convince yourself you will be

alone and miserable the rest of your life while she.... twinkle toes off with Prince McMoney.

He quickly becomes their "new dad" and you are swiftly forgotten about.

Never........ever......end this way. For it to.... the actions of the dad would have to be set in play.

You never disregarded your kids and McMoney knows he has to spend time with them in the McPlayground...

to get a ticket to ride the Spin-A-Ho. If you feel anything... feel sorry for the guy. She is his problem now.

He will learn..... soon enough. Keep a tight bond with the kids.... no matter what occurs. 

Her meltdown will be her meltdown to deal with. Kinda amazing ain't it..... you reading what

you posted a year ago. -WTF is that guy??-


----------



## Marc878

You've come a long way. Don't regress. She is who she's always been. That will never ever change.

Stay hard 180 and finish making your own life.

You aren't there yet but time will cure that. If you do this right.

If you let others make their problems yours they will gladly oblige you.

Concentrate on you.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Normal....... completely. Your mind plays tricks on you. You convince yourself you will be
> 
> alone and miserable the rest of your life while she.... twinkle toes off with Prince McMoney.
> 
> He quickly becomes their "new dad" and you are swiftly forgotten about.
> 
> Never........ever......end this way. For it to.... the actions of the dad would have to be set in play.
> 
> You never disregarded your kids and McMoney knows he has to spend time with them in the McPlayground...
> 
> to get a ticket to ride the Spin-A-Ho. If you feel anything... feel sorry for the guy. She is his problem now.
> 
> He will learn..... soon enough. Keep a tight bond with the kids.... no matter what occurs.
> 
> Her meltdown will be her meltdown to deal with. Kinda amazing ain't it..... you reading what
> 
> you posted a year ago. -WTF is that guy??-


 @Chuck71 exactly WTF is he lol.

Update she is moving in with the AP next week also, she did not tell me I heard she was moving and was told by the kids.

Life is still good, interactions are few and far between but still unpleasant.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> @Chuck71 exactly WTF is he lol.
> 
> Update she is moving in with the AP next week also, she did not tell me I heard she was moving and was told by the kids.
> 
> Life is still good, interactions are few and far between but still unpleasant.


I thought they already lived together! I guess this doesn't come as much of a surprise, does it?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> I thought they already lived together! I guess this doesn't come as much of a surprise, does it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


No she had a separate residence but they spend most of the time at his place including overnight, her separate residence is done and she will be solely relying on him to home her and the kids with no back up plan. 

Just in case I did not post this earlier or just a reminder, prior to our divorce he was also dating and had a girlfriend and her kids living with him when he was sleeping with my XW, he kicked her out once our divorce was finalized and him and my XW became 'good friends' before officially dating.


----------



## FeministInPink

MovingForward said:


> No she had a separate residence but they spend most of the time at his place including overnight, her separate residence is done and she will be solely relying on him to home her and the kids with no back up plan.
> 
> Just in case I did not post this earlier or just a reminder, prior to our divorce he was also dating and had a girlfriend and her kids living with him when he was sleeping with my XW, he kicked her out once our divorce was finalized and him and my XW became 'good friends' before officially dating.


Then I think I see what's coming for her in her near future....

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

FeministInPink said:


> I thought they already lived together! I guess this doesn't come as much of a surprise, does it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


LOL..... so did I. This really doesn't change a thing. They were parking asses together about 

every night anyway. My guess... when she had the kids, that was his "free time" to "explore"

hence... now she is moving in with him. My bet is she "imagined" it up you screwed her over on 

a vaginamony payment and put the guy in a position of either letting her move in... or allowing

her to be kicked out. Her fail-safe is the excuse she "suddenly" came up with the $ at last minute.

But if it went that far.... she will herself, begin looking for Plan Bs. But.... he caved so, didn't go

that far. She will vagina bomb him until late spring / early summer. Then the schit will hit the fan.

LOL.... just wait......


----------



## honcho

MovingForward said:


> No she had a separate residence but they spend most of the time at his place including overnight, her separate residence is done and she will be solely relying on him to home her and the kids with no back up plan.
> 
> Just in case I did not post this earlier or just a reminder, prior to our divorce he was also dating and had a girlfriend and her kids living with him when he was sleeping with my XW, he kicked her out once our divorce was finalized and him and my XW became 'good friends' before officially dating.


The om in my situation always did that, he would have the new soulmate all ready to move in then kick the "old" soulmate out of his house. My crazy ex learned it the hard way when she came home from work to find the new woman had moved in and the locks changed.....

Her backup plan was living in her car!


----------



## MovingForward

Got more abuse from the XW last night. She picked kids up from school and took them for ice cream knowing I had plans to take them for dinner which took 1 hour of her time and was done solely to interfere with my dinner plans(she used same trick before), she then gave me time she was dropping them and I arrived home 5 minutes after this time. This resulted in me allegedly ruining her workday, being billed per minute for child care, going back to court, no more favors(never done any) and just being a terrible selfish person!

I guess someone is not happy LOL


----------



## FeministInPink

Sometimes, you just have to laugh. She's never going to change her behavior, so there's no use getting upset. Besides, she wants to get under your skin. If you just let it roll off your back, you will be less stressed, plus it will have the bonus of making her crazy.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Thor

FeministInPink said:


> Sometimes, you just have to laugh. She's never going to change her behavior, so there's no use getting upset.


Very wise.

https://youtu.be/jL_317TGvbk?t=32s

"Happy" by Chuck Cannon, one of the great lyricists and songwriters.


----------



## ReturntoZero

honcho said:


> The om in my situation always did that, he would have the new soulmate all ready to move in then kick the "old" soulmate out of his house. My crazy ex learned it the hard way when she came home from work to find the new woman had moved in and the locks changed.....
> 
> Her backup plan was living in her car!


At least it was no longer "your" car.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Got more abuse from the XW last night. She picked kids up from school and took them for ice cream knowing I had plans to take them for dinner which took 1 hour of her time and was done solely to interfere with my dinner plans(she used same trick before), she then gave me time she was dropping them and I arrived home 5 minutes after this time. This resulted in me allegedly ruining her workday, being billed per minute for child care, going back to court, no more favors(never done any) and just being a terrible selfish person!
> 
> I guess someone is not happy LOL


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

It will get worse.... before she leaves you alone (for the most part)

When she does these things.... just smile, a schiteatinggrin smile.... 

I'm sorry you feel that way
I see things otherwise
Done yet....
IDGAF / remind me to GaF (my personal one)

Walk away... do not engage


----------



## Marc878

Poor muffin. It's so hard being a cheating slore. 

You were supposed to pine away and remain her faithful plan B. MF why you so mean?

It's her way of getting your attention. If you're smart you ignore her. Your are still letting her in your head too much.


----------



## Tobyboy

Two responses.....”I’m sorry you feel that way” and/or “have you gain weight“.


----------



## Marc878

Tobyboy said:


> Two responses.....”I’m sorry you feel that way” and/or “have you gain weight“.


Bwahahahaha ummm a better one would be. Man, it's really hard to see around your ass now!


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> It will get worse.... before she leaves you alone (for the most part)
> 
> When she does these things.... just smile, a schiteatinggrin smile....
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way
> I see things otherwise
> Done yet....
> IDGAF / remind me to GaF (my personal one)
> 
> Walk away... do not engage





Marc878 said:


> Poor muffin. It's so hard being a cheating slore.
> 
> You were supposed to pine away and remain her faithful plan B. MF why you so mean?
> 
> It's her way of getting your attention. If you're smart you ignore her. Your are still letting her in your head too much.





Tobyboy said:


> Two responses.....”I’m sorry you feel that way” and/or “have you gain weight“.





Marc878 said:


> Bwahahahaha ummm a better one would be. Man, it's really hard to see around your ass now!


You guys are hilarious. It is true though she has gained and does look terrible.

I do let her get in my head though, still looks like some residual anger and emotions inside as she has a way of being easily able to piss me off!


----------



## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> Sometimes, you just have to laugh. She's never going to change her behavior, so there's no use getting upset. Besides, she wants to get under your skin. If you just let it roll off your back, you will be less stressed, plus it will have the bonus of making her crazy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I try but I am 50/50 at the moment alternate between laugh,ignore and anger.

If i have no engagement I am stress free but her texts, emails etc do cause me a little anxiousness.


----------



## Edmund

MF,
You seem to be focusing more on XW now. How's your girlfriend? Your children?
You were doing so well a few months ago.


----------



## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> MF,
> You seem to be focusing more on XW now. How's your girlfriend? Your children?
> You were doing so well a few months ago.


All good with GF and kids are doing OK, still not same as prior to Divorce but much better than they were.

I guess I dont always talk about GF as there is not much to say when things go well, also use this as a place to vent when XW makes me mad.


----------



## Taxman

Moving Forward.
From my experience in discovery hearings, the spouse that reserves their emotions, and acts absolutely flat usually carries the day. Aside from all else, it drives the emotional spouse right out of their tree. Every attempt to elicit an emotional response from you, should be responded in a calm, cool, logical, emotionless and dispassionate manner.


----------



## MovingForward

Taxman said:


> Moving Forward.
> From my experience in discovery hearings, the spouse that reserves their emotions, and acts absolutely flat usually carries the day. Aside from all else, it drives the emotional spouse right out of their tree. Every attempt to elicit an emotional response from you, should be responded in a calm, cool, logical, emotionless and dispassionate manner.


Trying, sometimes I snap still though. find it hard to believe that someone who did what she did would continue to act like a ***** afterwards, i would have thought she would want to keep her head down and a low profile.


----------



## Taxman

MovingForward said:


> Trying, sometimes I snap still though. find it hard to believe that someone who did what she did would continue to act like a ***** afterwards, i would have thought she would want to keep her head down and a low profile.


My friend, you know the truth. Shame is not part of her equation. Prepare yourself accordingly. Single focus, push through this.


----------



## ReturntoZero

MovingForward said:


> You guys are hilarious. It is true though she has gained and does look terrible.
> 
> I do let her get in my head though, still looks like some residual anger and emotions inside as she has a way of being easily able to piss me off!


She's studied your buttons for years.

Pushing them is second nature.

"I'm sorry you feel that way" is golden.

In a pinch, move to, "I don't like where this conversation is heading"

How can she argue with that?

Think about it - and own your feelings.


----------



## LTCNurse

MovingForward, you are doing great! I admire your progress and yes, "I'm sorry you feel that way" is a sort of funny way to say FU. 
Don't respond emotionally but she is going to drive you nuts, stay calm. You are doing a great job of working on yourself and don't forget to focus on the children! I think you made an excellent decision.


----------



## MovingForward

LTCNurse said:


> MovingForward, you are doing great! I admire your progress and yes, "I'm sorry you feel that way" is a sort of funny way to say FU.
> Don't respond emotionally but she is going to drive you nuts, stay calm. You are doing a great job of working on yourself and don't forget to focus on the children! I think you made an excellent decision.


Thanks, it is not all smooth sailing still.

She still picks at me every chance she gets and tries to goad me into arguments, this weekend again telling me how much of a terrible person, husband and dad i was.

Rewriting history has also increased with her sending me emails with 'new facts' for how she did not have an affair etc


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Thanks, it is not all smooth sailing still.
> 
> She still picks at me every chance she gets and tries to goad me into arguments, this weekend again telling me how much of a terrible person, husband and dad i was.
> 
> Rewriting history has also increased with her sending me emails with 'new facts' for how she did not have an affair etc


Trouble in POSOMland I see.... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

You know their fantasy is about to implode when all her focus seems to be.... returned to you.

Funny.... had she focused that much, on you.... maybe the M could have been saved.

Be glad you are just dodging anger dumps..... you could be her..... 

She is mad at YOU because HER plan... went up in smoke.
I'm sorry you feel that way
I see things otherwise
Done yet?
Remind me to GaF.... and laugh when you say it

It'll take awhile but.... she will have to own it. When she does... maybe....maybe.... you and her

can co-parent effectively. Always remember.... when someone acts like a spoiled 6 y / o around you....

treat them as one.....


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Trouble in POSOMland I see.... :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> You know their fantasy is about to implode when all her focus seems to be.... returned to you.
> 
> Funny.... had she focused that much, on you.... maybe the M could have been saved.
> 
> Be glad you are just dodging anger dumps..... you could be her.....
> 
> She is mad at YOU because HER plan... went up in smoke.
> I'm sorry you feel that way
> I see things otherwise
> Done yet?
> Remind me to GaF.... and laugh when you say it
> 
> It'll take awhile but.... she will have to own it. When she does... maybe....maybe.... you and her
> 
> can co-parent effectively. Always remember.... when someone acts like a spoiled 6 y / o around you....
> 
> treat them as one.....


All I would like is no hassle and be able to not see kids in middle or be used as pawns. Also be good if we could drop Alimony :grin2:

Told her to go bother her boyfriend. 

Me, my girlfriend and the kids had a great weekend together.


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## Affaircare

My fav: 

"Remind me to GaF" 

LOL :lol: Love that one!


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## Absurdist

MovingForward said:


> Thanks, it is not all smooth sailing still.
> 
> She still picks at me every chance she gets and tries to goad me into arguments, this weekend again telling me how much of a terrible person, husband and dad i was.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way (don't you see how this is a perfect response to these things?)
> 
> Rewriting history has also increased with her sending me emails with 'new facts' for how she did not have an affair etc
> 
> Crickets to these emails.


----------



## snerg

MovingForward said:


> Thanks, it is not all smooth sailing still.
> 
> She still picks at me every chance she gets and tries to goad me into arguments, this weekend again telling me how much of a terrible person, husband and dad i was.
> 
> Rewriting history has also increased with her sending me emails with 'new facts' for how she did not have an affair etc


You are missing a *GOLDEN *opportunity for comedy *GOLD*

When she starts picking,
You stare at her blankly, if you can leave your mouth slightly agape the better,
No sound, no emotion, no response you make until,
She gets aggravated or real uncomfortable because you are looking at her and not saying a word,
Then reply with "Are you finished",
And leave it at that!


----------



## Marc878

Silence is golden. Look for any reason not to respond. 

Think of it like this. A response just gives her more appetite to do more picking.

Plus it's a huge waste of your time, energy and emotions. Why bother?


----------



## MovingForward

Quick update. 

Still do not speak or communicate with x at all, she tries in person at exchanges and since I ignore all her texts and emails she tries to make them more specific and requiring answers but I mostly still ignore.

POSOM told my daughter I was a retard recently and in front of my son for correcting a lie they had told her which angered me but I kept calm and explained to the kids with facts and they understood, did plan on hashing it out with the XW but realized it would be pointless so just documented it and left it alone. 

Rumoir is they are looking to get married which I hope is true as Alimony will go away but do not think they will do it until it expires. 

Things with GF still good and we have been seeing each other for 9 months which has flown by and barely spent a day apart.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Quick update.
> 
> Still do not speak or communicate with x at all, she tries in person at exchanges and since I ignore all her texts and emails she tries to make them more specific and requiring answers but I mostly still ignore.
> 
> POSOM told my daughter I was a retard recently and in front of my son for correcting a lie they had told her which angered me but I kept calm and explained to the kids with facts and they understood, did plan on hashing it out with the XW but realized it would be pointless so just documented it and left it alone.
> 
> Rumoir is they are looking to get married which I hope is true as Alimony will go away but do not think they will do it until it expires.
> 
> Things with GF still good and we have been seeing each other for 9 months which has flown by and barely spent a day apart.


GREAT job...... they're not worth it. When I was dating my XW and her son was 7.... not one single

time did I call his dad a retard. I was 25 too.... MF... POSOM has officially bought into your XWs

lies and BS. He has shown his worth and it is worth-less. I would be 110% shocked if they ever M.

Much less while she is getting YOUR cash. Funny she has went from "Trouble in POSOMLand" to now

getting M. Are they both that moronic? We know she is.... well he is the one who called you.... a retard.

All I can say is.... pot calling the kettle black.

Congrat's on you and GF. Who knows where it will go but.... you are 100x happier now.

That's what matters. Today is one year for FQ and I. Well that includes that *bump* a couple months ago.

But we're working on that.... she is backing up what she said.

One more thing..... POSOM was a playboy and settled on a WW. If he M her... knowing what she did

to you..... HE is the true King Retard.


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> GREAT job...... they're not worth it. When I was dating my XW and her son was 7.... not one single
> 
> time did I call his dad a retard. I was 25 too.... MF... POSOM has officially bought into your XWs
> 
> lies and BS. He has shown his worth and it is worth-less. I would be 110% shocked if they ever M.
> 
> Much less while she is getting YOUR cash. Funny she has went from "Trouble in POSOMLand" to now
> 
> getting M. Are they both that moronic? We know she is.... well he is the one who called you.... a retard.
> 
> All I can say is.... pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> Congrat's on you and GF. Who knows where it will go but.... you are 100x happier now.
> 
> That's what matters. Today is one year for FQ and I. Well that includes that *bump* a couple months ago.
> 
> But we're working on that.... she is backing up what she said.
> 
> One more thing..... POSOM was a playboy and settled on a WW. If he M her... knowing what she did
> 
> to you..... HE is the true King Retard.


I am mostly not bothered, it just bothers me the games they play and how they use the kids, obviously my Son and Daughter living in his house cant question him or fight about it as they are probably not comfortable enough so it puts them in a bad spot which I do not like. I downloaded and made a file for all texts, messaging platforms, social media posts and emails from XW which clearly shows her lying, cheating and having an affair, I keep it and add to it as and when she does stuff so if in future I have the entire story documented should I ever need to prove who the liar and bad person is. She likes to rewrite history so this gives me benefit of the doubt.

I am very happy it still amazes me how you can be so unhappy and not even realize because it is 'normal'. I would like to think things with the girlfriend will continue to flourish but even if it doesn't in the end I still feel I am a new and better man although have to give GF credit for that also, she gets me eating good, exercising regularly, dressing nice, grooming better and just gives me a lot of confidence in myself.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I am mostly not bothered, it just bothers me the games they play and how they use the kids, obviously my Son and Daughter living in his house cant question him or fight about it as they are probably not comfortable enough so it puts them in a bad spot which I do not like. I downloaded and made a file for all texts, messaging platforms, social media posts and emails from XW which clearly shows her lying, cheating and having an affair, I keep it and add to it as and when she does stuff so if in future I have the entire story documented should I ever need to prove who the liar and bad person is. She likes to rewrite history so this gives me benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I am very happy it still amazes me how you can be so unhappy and not even realize because it is 'normal'. I would like to think things with the girlfriend will continue to flourish but even if it doesn't in the end I still feel I am a new and better man although have to give GF credit for that also, she gets me eating good, exercising regularly, dressing nice, grooming better and just gives me a lot of confidence in myself.


They play games because they ARE kids themselves. Playing house until the $ runs out.

Glad you have all that saved. One day....15 years from now, you then grown kids may want to know.

"Here it is, do with as you see fit."

No relationship is promised anything. You were thought "happy" because she slowly, calculatingly 

stripped your emotions away. Something like making you secretly unhappy, to make her unhappy,

by which she sought happy, elsewhere. Sounds like dancing on broken glass but that was her choice. 

As long as you have firm boundaries, you will always be ok. When you let those down, to "please"

others.... that leads to "all things negative." My parents didn't have the greatest M by ANY stretch.

I knew I was pretty lucky to grow up with a mom n pop, many friends didn't, 1980s.

Today it is so much worse. But when others cross your boundaries, you must enforce.

Even though my mom's last year was due to dementia and she turned into an entitled princess / drama queen / 

hot mess.... she taught me a lesson. I already had strict boundaries.... she forced me to make

them stronger, by her actions. In a way... I'd like to say... mom (the mom I knew until dementia)

intended to do that..... thinking after she was gone, I would be alone in this world. That's how great moms are....


----------



## MovingForward

Not posted in a while so like to update from time to time as I like to reread my old threads to see how things change/progress.

So me and girlfriend been doing well, we had to Cali this weekend to surf, hang out on the beach and we are picking up a dog.

My Children have been away for 2 weeks with their mother and I called them for the first week but they either did not answer or wish to speak so I am going the longest I have gone without speaking to them, my D6 usually calls twice a day when not with me so not sure what has changed but i am not overly happy about it but have to suck it up I guess, one more week and they will be back.

My X usually reaches out about once a month to me via text to criticize or attack me for something and I mostly just ignore her, feelings towards her are still the same, anger or indifference, If i was not paying alimony I would not even be angry but still feel like I have been screwed and sending a lying cheater money every month is frustrating. Alimony aside though life is still better without X and I really really wish I could have seen this a long time ago.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> Not posted in a while so like to update from time to time as I like to reread my old threads to see how things change/progress.
> 
> So me and girlfriend been doing well, we had to Cali this weekend to surf, hang out on the beach and we are picking up a dog.
> 
> My Children have been away for 2 weeks with their mother and I called them for the first week but they either did not answer or wish to speak so I am going the longest I have gone without speaking to them, my D6 usually calls twice a day when not with me so not sure what has changed but i am not overly happy about it but have to suck it up I guess, one more week and they will be back.
> 
> My X usually reaches out about once a month to me via text to criticize or attack me for something and I mostly just ignore her, feelings towards her are still the same, anger or indifference, If i was not paying alimony I would not even be angry but still feel like I have been screwed and sending a lying cheater money every month is frustrating. Alimony aside though life is still better without X and I really really wish I could have seen this a long time ago.


MF keep reaching out to kids. Don't let that slide. Ex can use that with kids if she is really nasty to say you are busy, don't care, etc. I would recommend you keep trying a few times a day for good measure. Just to touch base.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Not posted in a while so like to update from time to time as I like to reread my old threads to see how things change/progress.
> 
> So me and girlfriend been doing well, we had to Cali this weekend to surf, hang out on the beach and we are picking up a dog.
> 
> *My Children have been away for 2 weeks with their mother and I called them for the first week but they either did not answer or wish to speak so I am going the longest I have gone without speaking to them, my D6 usually calls twice a day when not with me so not sure what has changed but i am not overly happy about it but have to suck it up I guess, one more week and they will be back.*
> 
> My X usually reaches out about once a month to me via text to criticize or attack me for something and I mostly just ignore her, feelings towards her are still the same, anger or indifference, If i was not paying alimony I would not even be angry but still feel like I have been screwed and sending a lying cheater money every month is frustrating. Alimony aside though life is still better without X and I really really wish I could have seen this a long time ago.


Let her time be hers and you do the same. This isn't the end of the world. You can't control this. Let it go. You'll just keep yourself bound.

Ignore the X it's the best thing you can do. Any response just feeds the monkey. Why would you want to let her know you care?


----------



## Marc878

stillfightingforus said:


> MF keep reaching out to kids. Don't let that slide. Ex can use that with kids if she is really nasty to say you are busy, don't care, etc. I would recommend you keep trying a few times a day for good measure. Just to touch base.


That's exactly what his X wants. Why play that game?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Marc878 said:


> That's exactly what his X wants. Why play that game?


I don't equate games and communication with kids in the same realm. From what I'm gathering, he hasn't talked to his kids in 2 weeks. For the 2 kids their age, I would say that's too long of a gap. 

It's a little bit different with my kids cause they are at the right age to use electronics and I set forth a plan before they left but maybe MF can set something up that's civil as well. I bought my Son 11, an iPhone before he was set to go over his Mom's for his first over night over there. I gave my Daughter, 7, one of my old phones to use over WiFi for messaging. I rarely talk to them on the phone but I send them each one good night message every night. For the most part, WSTBXW does the same when they are over here. 

When it comes to kids, I don't care about 180s or respect or anything when it comes to my kids and what I feel is best for them. I don't think MF is being a bad father by any means but I'm thinking, at least from my perspective, can push a little harder to cut down on the gaps of communication.


----------



## Marc878

stillfightingforus said:


> I don't equate games and communication with kids in the same realm. From what I'm gathering, he hasn't talked to his kids in 2 weeks. For the 2 kids their age, I would say that's too long of a gap.
> 
> It's a little bit different with my kids cause they are at the right age to use electronics and I set forth a plan before they left but maybe MF can set something up that's civil as well. I bought my Son 11, an iPhone before he was set to go over his Mom's for his first over night over there. I gave my Daughter, 7, one of my old phones to use over WiFi for messaging. I rarely talk to them on the phone but I send them each one good night message every night. For the most part, WSTBXW does the same when they are over here.
> 
> When it comes to kids, I don't care about 180s or respect or anything when it comes to my kids and what I feel is best for them. I don't think MF is being a bad father by any means but I'm thinking, at least from my perspective, can push a little harder to cut down on the gaps of communication.



The only thing that works with a narcissist is gray rocking. His kids will be fine. Trying to control something you have no control over gets you nothing.


----------



## MovingForward

The kids have ipads and the ability to call me and i can call them directly, the problem is they are not calling and not answering so I am just leaving it until they get back. Thy have a choice also and have no issues calling in the past so not sure what is going on but I am sure not going to give my X the satisfaction of calling her.

It is frustrating and a little upsetting they dont actually care but i have learned in Divorce you can only control yourself and if it is out of your control best to focus energy elsewhere so I will enjoy my weekend in California surfing and relaxing and when the kids get back next weekend extra chores and Dad is going to be doing less for them unless they earn it, Partially my fault and a lot of my X's fault but the kids seem to not respect me possibly due to all the **** talking my X and her POSOM do about me so I intent to make them learn and no longer be the fun dad.


----------



## Marc878

You are the bad guy because you refused to eat the **** sandwiche she served you. Poor muffin never thought you'd man up and cut her out.

As you've seen being a doormat just lets them wipe their feet on you.

Enjoy your vacation


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> The kids have ipads and the ability to call me and i can call them directly, the problem is they are not calling and not answering so I am just leaving it until they get back. Thy have a choice also and have no issues calling in the past so not sure what is going on but I am sure not going to give my X the satisfaction of calling her.
> 
> It is frustrating and a little upsetting they dont actually care but i have learned in Divorce you can only control yourself and if it is out of your control best to focus energy elsewhere so I will enjoy my weekend in California surfing and relaxing and when the kids get back next weekend extra chores and Dad is going to be doing less for them unless they earn it, Partially my fault and a lot of my X's fault but the kids seem to not respect me possibly due to all the **** talking my X and her POSOM do about me so I intent to make them learn and no longer be the fun dad.


Guess that's all you can do then, when you have to maximize that time. What a sh**** situation but you are doing what you can. Best of luck when they are back with you.


----------



## MovingForward

Weekend away was a great experience and we picked up our new family pet which has been interesting but fun.

Some good news my Children called and they had not been given access to WIFI which is why they did not answer or call, my X obviously could have given them access but chose not to, other good news....................She got engaged so fingers crossed they get married fast so Alimony is over with.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

MovingForward said:


> Weekend away was a great experience and we picked up our new family pet which has been interesting but fun.
> 
> Some good news my Children called and they had not been given access to WIFI which is why they did not answer or call, my X obviously could have given them access but chose not to, other good news....................She got engaged so fingers crossed they get married fast so Alimony is over with.


WHEN that falls apart and she gets divorced are you still off the hook?


----------



## MovingForward

stillfightingforus said:


> WHEN that falls apart and she gets divorced are you still off the hook?


Yes once married it is gone for good, I onyl have 2 years left so be nice if they can hurry this along and tie the knot before end of the year.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I was looking through some of your original threads, I could of swore there was cheating by her. Did I miss that when reading through the threads?


----------



## SadSamIAm

MovingForward said:


> Yes once married it is gone for good, I onyl have 2 years left so be nice if they can hurry this along and tie the knot before end of the year.


Are they living together? One would think that Alimony would stop when they are cohabiting. Especially if they are engaged and cohabiting.


----------



## Marc878

MF it doesn’t surprise me about her interfering with the kids contacting you.

You know who and what she is. Expect this with her always


Look at this as s good thing. You have your time and she has hers. Don’t interfere. That way when you have the kids you don’t have to worry about any mommy time.


----------



## MovingForward

stillfightingforus said:


> I was looking through some of your original threads, I could of swore there was cheating by her. Did I miss that when reading through the threads?


She was it is in one of them, she denied and hid it well for a while, i had a gut feeling way before we talked divorce and was what led to the original conversation of Divorce but I didn't officially find out until we separated, it as same guy I had suspected and it is the same guy she is engaged to.


----------



## MovingForward

SadSamIAm said:


> Are they living together? One would think that Alimony would stop when they are cohabiting. Especially if they are engaged and cohabiting.


Unfortunately not, have to be married for him to be 'officially' financially responsible for her.

I can fight to reduce alimony and child support but the cost will outweigh the reward, the law makes it expensive and not simple to do these things.


----------



## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> MF it doesn’t surprise me about her interfering with the kids contacting you.
> 
> You know who and what she is. Expect this with her always
> 
> 
> Look at this as s good thing. You have your time and she has hers. Don’t interfere. That way when you have the kids you don’t have to worry about any mommy time.


It was more to do with the fact my Daughter wanted to and was denied the right. 2 more days and they are back and we go back to a normal routine and since summer camp is on I have no interaction with the POS XW


----------



## MThomas

MovingForward said:


> Weekend away was a great experience and we picked up our new family pet which has been interesting but fun.
> 
> Some good news *my Children called and they had not been given access to WIFI which is why they did not answer or call,* my X obviously could have given them access but chose not to, other good news....................She got engaged so fingers crossed they get married fast so Alimony is over with.


You do know that was planned, right? As you were told earlier, she will put the screws to you anyway she can, because she is angry and PO'd. My STBXW did that to me several years ago.

Unless this guy is uber rich, she will not marry him until your trust fund runs out. The only way she would turn down your money is if she sees at least double with him. Trust me this guy doesn't want to marry her, at least while another guy is keeping her up.


----------



## MovingForward

MThomas said:


> You do know that was planned, right? As you were told earlier, she will put the screws to you anyway she can, because she is angry and PO'd. My STBXW did that to me several years ago.
> 
> Unless this guy is uber rich, she will not marry him until your trust fund runs out. The only way she would turn down your money is if she sees at least double with him. Trust me this guy doesn't want to marry her, at least while another guy is keeping her up.


He is quite wealthy, She is quite an insecure person so not sure she will want to wait long in case he changes his mind so I am hoping she pushes for it to be in the next 6-9 months so she does not have to stay on her best behavior for as long.


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## Marc878

Her ass keeps getting bigger he'll trade her in for a new model.


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## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Her ass keeps getting bigger he'll trade her in for a new model.


Exactly!!!! i think she wants to get this married fast before he changes his mind


----------



## MThomas

MovingForward said:


> He is quite wealthy, She is quite an insecure person so not sure she will want to wait long in case he changes his mind so I am hoping she pushes for it to be in the next 6-9 months so she does not have to stay on her best behavior for as long.


Is it his money, his parents money, or inheritance?


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## Marc878

What neither one of them realize is marriage doesn't mean much to either one of them.

Just some words and a piece of paper.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

MovingForward said:


> She was it is in one of them, she denied and hid it well for a while, i had a gut feeling way before we talked divorce and was what led to the original conversation of Divorce but I didn't officially find out until we separated, it as same guy I had suspected and it is the same guy she is engaged to.


So, maybe sending her flowers for him and love notes signed by him to help things along....hmmm

Also, you could always rent a hotel ballroom for their reception. Then upon the marriage ceremony. Give him a thank you card. "Your circus, your monkeys."
:grin2:


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## MovingForward

MThomas said:


> Is it his money, his parents money, or inheritance?


His money he runs his own successful business.


----------



## MThomas

So she wants to marry to up her pay grade. This guy is an idiot if he doesn't see that coming. Good bet he is stalling by telling her to collect all the cash from you she can. But if he is very welltodo why isn't he chasing the 20y/o crowd? He may be book smart but to want someone with children, known cheater, money collector, he sure isn't street smart.


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## Taxman

I have a funny story, and not too off topic. I had a divorce case a few years ago. He was a referral from a law firm. Simple case really, she had left him for "greener pastures". (Rich guy who impressed her with the size of his wallet) We unlaced their assets, gave each credit for monies contributed, that type of thing. I noticed that she was formerly a fitness model. He showed me pictures, and yes she was quite striking. I find out that her and her AP bonded over fine dining. So I remark to my client that could be an eventual deal breaker. My client looks at me sideways, and I explain that if they are going a few times a week for rich fatty foods, and they are doing something similar at home, it will not be too long before the fitness model looks are long gone.

So a year or so goes by, and I am doing his taxes. He is divorced, and his ex married the AP. He asks me if I still do his ex's tax, and I said no. Then he goes on to tell me that his ex darkened his door a few weeks earlier. He said that when he saw her, his jaw dropped. She got big. The dining caught up to her, and since she did not have to work any more, the workouts fell by the wayside. She had been separated from her new husband fairly quickly, and was looking for "plan B". He told me he could not resist his next statement. It caused her to turn and scurry off in tears. He said, "Thought that the new marriage agreed with you, after all, you have turned into A WHALE OF A GIRL."


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## MovingForward

Taxman said:


> I have a funny story, and not too off topic. I had a divorce case a few years ago. He was a referral from a law firm. Simple case really, she had left him for "greener pastures". (Rich guy who impressed her with the size of his wallet) We unlaced their assets, gave each credit for monies contributed, that type of thing. I noticed that she was formerly a fitness model. He showed me pictures, and yes she was quite striking. I find out that her and her AP bonded over fine dining. So I remark to my client that could be an eventual deal breaker. My client looks at me sideways, and I explain that if they are going a few times a week for rich fatty foods, and they are doing something similar at home, it will not be too long before the fitness model looks are long gone.
> 
> So a year or so goes by, and I am doing his taxes. He is divorced, and his ex married the AP. He asks me if I still do his ex's tax, and I said no. Then he goes on to tell me that his ex darkened his door a few weeks earlier. He said that when he saw her, his jaw dropped. She got big. The dining caught up to her, and since she did not have to work any more, the workouts fell by the wayside. She had been separated from her new husband fairly quickly, and was looking for "plan B". He told me he could not resist his next statement. It caused her to turn and scurry off in tears. He said, "Thought that the new marriage agreed with you, after all, you have turned into A WHALE OF A GIRL."


This is funny, my X has been enjoying fine dining also, she had not even eaten a vegetable when we first met, we went gym and eat reasonably healthy and she stayed lean for 12 years and bounced back after both kids, only a year with this guy and she is gaining size fast.


----------



## Marc878

If she continues I'd send a cowbell and ribbon to her for Christmas.


----------



## farsidejunky

MThomas said:


> So she wants to marry to up her pay grade. This guy is an idiot if he doesn't see that coming. Good bet he is stalling by telling her to collect all the cash from you she can. But if he is very welltodo why isn't he chasing the 20y/o crowd? He may be book smart but to want someone with children, known cheater, money collector, he sure isn't street smart.


Unless he is biding his time until he tires of shoplifting the booty.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

Having been in this industry for over 40, I have seen the AP fairy tale blow up over the dumbest things. It really does come down to fairly damaged and immature people playing romance novel with one another. Yes, I have seen a formerly attractive wife become a monstrously fat and ugly WW. I have seen a husband that was a good family man, suddenly turn into Hugh fúcking Hefner, launching his **** at just about anything that moves. It has forced me to come to the conclusion that these folks are missing major pieces of their psyches and all it takes is a minor flirtation, some affirmation, a little false compliment and boom they throw the family and marriage on the scrap heap, and proceed to fûck up their world. So.....it comes as absolutely no surprise when these relationships between WW's and the OM's and WH's and their OW's literally explode within 2-3 years of these rocket scientists blowing up their original marriages. I have told betrayed clients more than once to be on the defensive at points following the separation/divorce. I just had a guy come in today, it took her six months, and she had the great epiphany. She said she sat bolt upright in bed, looked at her AP, and said, "What the hell am I doing?" She apparently hoofed the AP out this morning, and called her ex. He was major rattled when he came to see me, he had gotten his life together, and he was seeing other people. I asked him if he felt he owed it to anyone to even give her an opening. He said he didn't but could not resist seeing what was happening. So he went to lunch with her. I got a call this afternoon saying that they are cautiously going to date one another. She has already been informed that he is dating others as well. She said that it hurt her (oh, poor poo poo, you fûcked another guy, left your husband, and you have the fücking nerve to say your are hurt????). He told her that this is dating, they are not married, and she is JUST ANOTHER DATE. I told him that he has no obligations or promises to keep with her, and if she pisses him off, he should not even entertain dating. We will see. I am actually pulling for another female in his circle. Let his ex rot. She caused this, now, I hope that he leads her on enough to really hurt her, then leaves her for another woman. I know I sound like a bastard, but really, turn about is fair play. She massively hurt him when she ran to the no good son of a bîtch she left for. I think she has a short memory, and it will serve her right to get screwed in the end.


----------



## MovingForward

Update time........... 

Few things have happened since my last post.

1) I met with POSOM - My x let me down for a work trip she was covering so I stopped a late pick up we had agreed to, this resulted in a heated exchange and the POSOM emailed me and we ended up arguing also. 

I calmed down and decided to try a new tactic and emailed him to meet me for a beer to talk. End result it actually went really well, he was friendly and respectful, agreed she is emotional and he has same issues exactly with his X and understood my frustration and told me he loved the kids and just wanted to avoid as much conflict as possible, he also told me some of which she has done he would speak to her about since he agreed it was not right and she needs to think more before she speaks in front of the kids. Also does not sound like he knows the full story or that he was aware me and her were still together when they started dating since he has been dating her much longer in his eyes than she has admitted .............. I kept my mouth shut as I have much more to gain out of her and him living happily ever after than I do from destroying them, he is good to kids, calm, reasonable, has a nice house and a solid income so keeps kids secure when not with me. 

In an ideal world it would be preferable to avoid any day swaps or exchanges but unfortunately i have to travel for work every month and for a couple days out of state, having no family and few friends makes this a difficult problem to navigate since overnight babysitters especially on a school night are non existent so I end up having to negotiate with the devil.

One thing came from the meeting which me and him exchanged numbers and he mentioned i can always go via him if i want to avoid her and he will ask and she will be more likely to be reasonable also if i cc him on emails he said she may think before she sends an emotional response and save the hassle of a confrontation, so far so good.

2) I got served with an order to appear to modify CS and Parenting time(this was ordered prior to my meeting) basically my X wants to reduce her parenting commitments but keep the same amount of CS!!!!! She actually has requested this so I am meeting a lawyer Friday to work on my response which should be easy as i just follow the guidelines and laws and time changes and my CS amount goes down, this is a good thing all around, basically means no pick ups or drop offs at each others houses ever so all done at School which is what I wanted from the beginning. 

3) I booked a vacation and also got the exercise bug back, i am feeling amazing.


----------



## Trident

Not understanding why there is an order to modify CS if your ex wants to keep it the same?

In my state the usual procedure- that I have been through during my divorce- is to first modify parenting time and/or custody and then once that's final you take it to the support magistrate who makes any necessary changes in support. So if it works anything like that in your state, you'd agree to the change in visitation since you'll see the kids more, and then deal with the child support amount afterwards- not simultaneously. 

Also in my state there is one custodial parent and one non custodial parent even if the visitation is split 50/50 so a change in the number of overnights won't affect support only a complete change in custody which is what happened in my case.


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## MovingForward

trident said:


> Not understanding why there is an order to modify CS if your ex wants to keep it the same?
> 
> In my state the usual procedure- that I have been through during my divorce- is to first modify parenting time and/or custody and then once that's final you take it to the support magistrate who makes any necessary changes in support. So if it works anything like that in your state, you'd agree to the change in visitation since you'll see the kids more, and then deal with the child support amount afterwards- not simultaneously.
> 
> Also in my state there is one custodial parent and one non custodial parent even if the visitation is split 50/50 so a change in the number of overnights won't affect support only a complete change in custody which is what happened in my case.


Our state works a little different and both are handled same time.

We have Joint, Legal and Physical. Also the more time you get the less you pay the other parent, we had a a 60/40 split for CS since she was supposed to help cover my work so was added to decree, also any Child expenses I accrue go into the calculation.

What she wants is to not cover anything at all for my work, do none of the extra days she is legally down to cover and is paid for, add child care expenses to me of almost $500 a month but continue to receive the same amount of CS.

We have a state calculator, you just plug in time/earnings/expenses and it tells you CS, her calculation is WAY off and makes no sense


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## Tron

She will find out about all that and then you will get her emotional response...


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## Marc878

Don't trust the OM to far after all he is a lying cheater.


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## SentHereForAReason

It sounds like at least on the surface, the talk might have been productive but the chances of him not knowing about you is probably around -300% .... At the very least, in order for your EW to carry on the relationship effectively, she would have had to given guidelines on when, how and why to meet up and communicate in certain fashions.


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## MThomas

MovingForward said:


> Our state works a little different and both are handled same time.
> 
> We have Joint, Legal and Physical. Also the more time you get the less you pay the other parent, we had a a 60/40 split for CS since she was supposed to help cover my work so was added to decree, also any Child expenses I accrue go into the calculation.
> 
> What she wants is to not cover anything at all for my work, do none of the extra days she is legally down to cover and is paid for, add child care expenses to me of almost $500 a month but continue to receive the same amount of CS.
> 
> We have a state calculator, you just plug in time/earnings/expenses and it tells you CS, her calculation is WAY off and makes no sense


More pay=less work or same pay=less work. It's a possible trap.


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## MovingForward

Marc878 said:


> Don't trust the OM to far after all he is a lying cheater.


Oh I do not trust him, but it benefits him to be civil with me also since I can also inconvenience them considerably. 

Also since I have it in email I invited him, I tried, i was civil and reasonable its just more evidence in future to show kids if needed.


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## MovingForward

stillfightingforus said:


> It sounds like at least on the surface, the talk might have been productive but the chances of him not knowing about you is probably around -300% .... At the very least, in order for your EW to carry on the relationship effectively, she would have had to given guidelines on when, how and why to meet up and communicate in certain fashions.


Possibly, although she could have also mentioned she had a crazy ex who would not be happy so to keep relationship secret.

Regardless of this I am glad she is gone and if he is a liar, deceptive, hates me or whatever as long as he keeps her away from me I am good.


----------



## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> Update time...........
> 
> I calmed down and decided to try a new tactic and emailed him to meet me for a beer to talk. End result it actually went really well, he was friendly and respectful, agreed she is emotional and he has same issues exactly with his X and understood my frustration and told me he loved the kids and just wanted to avoid as much conflict as possible, he also told me some of which she has done he would speak to her about since he agreed it was not right and she needs to think more before she speaks in front of the kids. Also does not sound like he knows the full story or that he was aware me and her were still together when they started dating since he has been dating her much longer in his eyes than she has admitted .............. I kept my mouth shut as I have much more to gain out of her and him living happily ever after than I do from destroying them, he is good to kids, calm, reasonable, has a nice house and a solid income so keeps kids secure when not with me.
> 
> ...
> 
> One thing came from the meeting which me and him exchanged numbers and he mentioned i can always go via him if i want to avoid her and he will ask and she will be more likely to be reasonable also if i cc him on emails he said she may think before she sends an emotional response and save the hassle of a confrontation, so far so good.


So maybe you should call him the OM instead of the POSOM, and call your XW the POSXW?


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## Edmund

MovingForward said:


> 3) I booked a vacation and also got the exercise bug back, i am feeling amazing.


So is your girlfriend going on this vacation with you? How is your relationship with her?


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## MovingForward

Edmund said:


> So maybe you should call him the OM instead of the POSOM, and call your XW the POSXW?


Would have been good but I mentioned to him we should do something which would benefit us all and my email was ignored and she went and filed an emergency order on me to extort more cash from me with some BS about circumstances have changed and its an emergency. I have a court date and hopefully resolve it all then.



Edmund said:


> So is your girlfriend going on this vacation with you? How is your relationship with her?


Yes she is and it is still going great


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## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Possibly, although she could have also mentioned she had a crazy ex who would not be happy so to keep relationship secret.
> 
> Regardless of this I am glad she is gone and if he is a liar, deceptive, hates me or whatever as long as he keeps her away from me I am good.


$20 says she will supernova him and pertrude asking you to talk. Seen it happen.....

Response..... "I have to pass due to the fact we.................." 

How's you n g/f doing?


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## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> $20 says she will supernova him and pertrude asking you to talk. Seen it happen.....
> 
> Response..... "I have to pass due to the fact we.................."
> 
> How's you n g/f doing?


He met and it seemed OK and he was very reasonable, was all fake though so I have cut all contact and given up ever having civil.

New GF is great, just wish there was the option to completely cut all ties/contact with x.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> He met and it seemed OK and he was very reasonable, was all fake though so I have cut all contact and given up ever having civil.
> 
> New GF is great, just wish there was the option to completely cut all ties/contact with x.


Eyyyyy....yo! Hows yousa doin?


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## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> Eyyyyy....yo! Hows yousa doin?


I am great, still have a couple annoying thorns in my side(POSXW and POSOM) from time to time but apart from those interactions everything is going really well.

Vacation booked, had some nice weekend trips, kids great, work great, set up new retirement accounts to catch up, social life is good. Who would have known getting Divorced would be such a positive experience lol. 

Since getting divorced I have learnt so much about myself, life, people, relationships, finances, i feel like i have progressed more in the last 2 years than I did in the prior 12. 


How have you been?


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> Who would have known getting Divorced would be such a positive experience lol.
> 
> Since getting divorced I have learnt so much about myself, life, people, relationships, finances, i feel like i have progressed more in the last 2 years than I did in the prior 12.


We would. Some of us told you as much. It's gonna be positive when your marriage is such a negative.


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## MovingForward

sokillme said:


> We would. Some of us told you as much. It's gonna be positive when your marriage is such a negative.


one of my biggest observations is how many people settle in an unhappy marriage or are completely not compatible but stay together because of fear, comfort or the unknown. I will constantly evaluate my relationship/s to ensure the pro's out weigh the cons.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> I am great, still have a couple annoying thorns in my side(POSXW and POSOM) from time to time but apart from those interactions everything is going really well.
> 
> Vacation booked, had some nice weekend trips, kids great, work great, set up new retirement accounts to catch up, social life is good. Who would have known getting Divorced would be such a positive experience lol.
> 
> Since getting divorced I have learnt so much about myself, life, people, relationships, finances, i feel like i have progressed more in the last 2 years than I did in the prior 12.
> 
> 
> How have you been?


Glad to hear! See how easy it is to deflect your XWs BS once you have your boundaries set?

You will still be her de facto dump hole for her anger and hurt. You have children together.

But you know how to handle it now. Don't beat yourself up, for the choice you made. I'm almost certain

she was a wonderful g/f and W a long time ago. Almost certain she was a great mom for a good while.

But something......happened to HER. By your posts she never came to you about it. So HITF were you to know?

But remember.....you changed over that time too. You may have even noticed this say... five years in.

-But I'm M now, got kids.... no way in hell I want a D $wise and to put my kids through it. Plus....

once M, always M, fight it out- You put your best foot forward and tried to make her happy.

Now you kinda kick yourself for staying so long. Somewhat a no-win situation. Been there....

But you are here.... you know "you" now much better. You know what you want and will not tolerate.

Always communicate with your g/f what you like and do not like. And remember the difference in

"Yes I love you but no, I do not need you" Love is healthy, love + need....unhealthy.

Best I recall neither of you want kids, so that is one major stress already taken care of.

Spend the time you are allotted with your kids in the best way possible. You will fart twice, blow your nose

and cut your toenails and they will be teens before you know it.....starting to make their own way.

You have improved by so much the last 18 months, a Padawan you no longer are.

What's the arrangements with the kids for tomorrow and the holidays?


----------



## FeministInPink

When the subject of my divorce comes up, I always say, "It was the most painful and difficult thing I've ever experienced, and ever will experience--it's also the best thing that ever happened to me, and the most profound. I wouldn't be the person I am today, were it not for that experience. I'm grateful every day for my divorce."

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

I had the kids for Thanksgiving as per our agreement and took them away for the night, had to be back the next afternoon though, it was a nice break.


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## MovingForward

FeministInPink said:


> When the subject of my divorce comes up, I always say, "It was the most painful and difficult thing I've ever experienced, and ever will experience--it's also the best thing that ever happened to me, and the most profound. I wouldn't be the person I am today, were it not for that experience. I'm grateful every day for my divorce."
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It sounds so weird to say but so true it can really be a positive experience for some.


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## MovingForward

So update, the more I ignore and refuse to engage my X the crazier she gets, very interesting to see lol.

She is desperate for a reaction and I really believe she is on route for a breakdown of some sort if she carries on.


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## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> So update, the more I ignore and refuse to engage my X the crazier she gets, very interesting to see lol.
> 
> She is desperate for a reaction and I really believe she is on route for a breakdown of some sort if she carries on.


This should NOT be a shock to you at all.......

First and definitely not last breakdown and most likely not her worst.

Boundaries up! Or as Melrose88 said "Tits up"


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> So update, the more I ignore and refuse to engage my X the crazier she gets, very interesting to see lol.
> 
> She is desperate for a reaction and I really believe she is on route for a breakdown of some sort if she carries on.


Narcissists hate being ignored. It's your only path so keep it up. Long term it will be the only way completely out of this.


----------



## BluesPower

MovingForward said:


> So update, the more I ignore and refuse to engage my X the crazier she gets, very interesting to see lol.
> 
> She is desperate for a reaction and I really believe she is on route for a breakdown of some sort if she carries on.


I want to know what she is doing. I don't know if you posted the craziness in detail yet, but the thread is so long. I can't remember...

Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> So update, the more I ignore and refuse to engage my X the crazier she gets, very interesting to see lol.
> 
> She is desperate for a reaction and I really believe she is on route for a breakdown of some sort if she carries on.


What kind of stuff is she engaging you with, I thought she was with OM. Why bother with you? Is it kids related?


----------



## MovingForward

BluesPower said:


> I want to know what she is doing. I don't know if you posted the craziness in detail yet, but the thread is so long. I can't remember...
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know...





sokillme said:


> What kind of stuff is she engaging you with, I thought she was with OM. Why bother with you? Is it kids related?


Just any excuse to try and force communication and constant legal threats, constant belittling my parenting, accusing me of stuff i have never done, twisting any situation to try and make me look bad.

Constant negative talking about me and my girlfriend on social media sites and community forums etc and POSOM is just as bad.

They usually send an email which will warrant a response to do with kids and then attack me, if I reply they threaten restraining order and if i ignore they tell me I have to communicate with them as co parents and I am strong arming them by refusing to engage, it gets tiring. Her entire family are involved also and have a lot of colorful language for me.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Just any excuse to try and force communication and constant legal threats, constant belittling my parenting, accusing me of stuff i have never done, twisting any situation to try and make me look bad.
> 
> Constant negative talking about me and my girlfriend on social media sites and community forums etc and POSOM is just as bad.
> 
> They usually send an email which will warrant a response to do with kids and then attack me, if I reply they threaten restraining order and if i ignore they tell me I have to communicate with them as co parents and I am strong arming them by refusing to engage, it gets tiring. Her entire family are involved also and have a lot of colorful language for me.


Did we not tell you this was coming? It's clockwork. Answer about the kids and ignore the rest.

They are just wanting to be heard. They're children (WW and POSOM).... treat them as such.

They're miserable and pizzed you are happy. That wasn't in "their plan"


----------



## sokillme

MovingForward said:


> Just any excuse to try and force communication and constant legal threats, constant belittling my parenting, accusing me of stuff i have never done, twisting any situation to try and make me look bad.
> 
> Constant negative talking about me and my girlfriend on social media sites and community forums etc and POSOM is just as bad.
> 
> They usually send an email which will warrant a response to do with kids and then attack me, if I reply they threaten restraining order and if i ignore they tell me I have to communicate with them as co parents and I am strong arming them by refusing to engage, it gets tiring. Her entire family are involved also and have a lot of colorful language for me.


Talk to your lawyer. Cease and desist? Just shows that you are in her head.


----------



## BluesPower

MovingForward said:


> Just any excuse to try and force communication and constant legal threats, constant belittling my parenting, accusing me of stuff i have never done, twisting any situation to try and make me look bad.
> 
> Constant negative talking about me and my girlfriend on social media sites and community forums etc and POSOM is just as bad.
> 
> They usually send an email which will warrant a response to do with kids and then attack me, if I reply they threaten restraining order and if i ignore they tell me I have to communicate with them as co parents and I am strong arming them by refusing to engage, it gets tiring. Her entire family are involved also and have a lot of colorful language for me.


Yeah, chuck is right. They are children. 

And she is nuts. I mean she had an affair, left you for the OM, got her divorce... what else could she want. 

You need to just ignore all the crap she is spewing...


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## turnera

IIWY, I'd hire a lawyer for a couple months and have him/her be your 'voice' to any calls or emails you get from them. They'll figure out pretty quick that you're not gonna take it anymore.


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## Marc878

You might be able to pick up some bucks if it's slanderous.

Christmas is coming 😎


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## Chuck71

Marc878 said:


> You might be able to pick up some bucks if it's slanderous.
> 
> Christmas is coming 😎


LOL..... true dat! You will get this barrage throughout the holidays. Promise....

What is the agreement for Christmas? If she can keep the kids from you during this time, when they

are scheduled with you, they will do it. Just to satisfy their self-serving desire to make you miserable.....

just like them. Guess their fairy tale love story has dropped in the crapper. Maybe one of them

is about to run out of money. 

They live to irritate you, it's their "job." So contact your lawyer and the local police as a heads up that

there may be some crap slung in about a month. Hopefully they will not show their asses....

but I would not expect it. Be prepared.


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## Chuck71

How did the key holidays go this year MF?


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## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> How did the key holidays go this year MF?


Really well, i had the kids from the afternoon until this morning, dinner was great, kids liked there presents and it was just a nice relaxing day with no hassle. 

How about you?


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