# A difficult handshake



## eyesopen

Background: Divorced for 3 years, co-parenting our two kids (both in elementary school) in collaborative and supportive way. She cheated on me (I found out after the fact, she is a WAW) and is now living with that person. It's a long story with many details but that's less the point here. He is an expat and was a household friend (though, not mine, no surprise here). Now he lives here. As I said we have a good parenting relationship, but I don't go to their house and though I have seen him, our paths don't cross. I make sure of that, and so does she.

Today I took the kids out for ice cream. We ordered and were sitting there eating. And then who walks in, yup. Her, and him (interesting things premonitions, I actually had a feeling it might happen, just for a split second, during the day). So there I was, she said hi to the kids, and him standing there with her.

I had often imagined what it might be like if/when we met. Needless to say I had a range of responses imagined... (yup, let your imagination run loose) and now suddenly and without planning here it (he) was.

It felt like eternity, my mind whizzing with what I might or should do. No, the fist to the face actually didn't come up as an option. I was not emotional or anything, that phase has passed. I actually felt how uncomfortable it is for me, and must be for him, and then my thoughts shifted to the kids. What do I want them to experience? What message do I want to send? What do I want them to remember? So, with great effort, and a pain/disgust that must have been apparent on my face, I reached out my hand and said: "{His name}, how are you". I don't know, I think he mumbled something. I tried to give a firm handshake, fairly sure I did. I vaguely recall his face is my peripheral vision, or maybe I looked directly at him, I don't recall. Anyway, then it was over. They stayed in the parlor, the kids went over, and I actually took the opportunity to sit outside with their mom to discuss something (kids related).

I don't really know what I want to say here. Probably just writing to vent. Issues of the place of forgiveness in our life come up, of course this is not a new subject for me to be thinking about (yes, I know, but in practice is more difficult than theory).

By way of attachments (yes it's the Buddhist speaking now), of course this is a big one. And attachment breeds suffering of course. I do think, however, that it was not my ego that wanted to show who was the bigger man to make the first move (well technically I can be his father, the prick, but that's another story...). Rather, my motivation really was for the children.

Anyway, I will stop rambling now.


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## Pluto2

Not intending to opine on your experience, but it really triggered an old memory for me. About twenty years ago (all all the players in the story have since died), my Mom's sister and her husband divorced after twenty-five years of marriage. He dropped on her and his three kids in the middle of dinner that he was moving out the next day, he met another woman he loved and he was divorcing my aunt. This was the first personal experience I ever had of infidelity. My parents spent countless hours on the phone talking my aunt through everything. 

About two years later my mom's father died, and my Mom was unable to attend the service. She was recovering from a horrendous auto accident and couldn't travel. So my father and siblings and I went up for the service. My, now former, uncle came to the service even though he had not been invited. My uncle approached my father and extended his hand. My father kept both hands in his pockets and told my uncle where his children were. I was floored. I'd never seen my father ever be less than gracious and this really threw me. I asked him about it later and he said a handshake was a greeting between two gentleman, or a symbol of welcome-neither applied to my uncle. It was definitely something that has stuck with me


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## Hardtohandle

Eyesopen, you're a bigger man than me.. 

I give no quarter to my ex wife or this other man.. I am not pleasent with her at all and I know I would not be to him.. 

My ex never apologized though for her actions.. Her mentality is deal with it.. So my mentality is fvck you and I will crush you any chance I get.. I won't go out of my way but if our paths cross and I can kick you in the face.. I will.. 

Again you are much stronger than me.. Because it DOES take a strong man to do what you did.. 

I always tell my kids it is very easy to be evil and do bad.. 
It actually takes work to be good and honest..


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## Marc878

Awkward!!!!

I wouldn't shake his hand. Acknowledge them like you would a store clerk, some one you don't know, etc. basically ignore unless they say hi then give em a brief acknowledgement. It does catch you off guard though.

It's your life you run it like you want. 

Being friendly means you are ok with what went on. Man up and drop the door mat stuff.

Fvck them.


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## 6301

I had the same problem with my ex and the guy she was seeing. I didn't know either that she was cheating until after we split. 

I had something similar happen to my with my ex and the OM and by chance we ran into each other while I had my daughter. Many things ran through my head that I would like to do to the both of them but when you have a six year old daughter who is a innocent party to this mess, I did the right thing. I bit my tongue, acted like an adult and a dad and just let it slide. Some small talk and then we excused ourselves. I figured, it's his problem now so I'll let him deal with it. Glad to see you took the high road.


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## Nomorebeans

Eyesopen, you are a gentleman and a scholar. That said, Pluto's story made me say out loud, "My Dad SO would have done the same thing."

I struggle with this. I know I will have to meet the OW for whom my ex left me someday in the not-too-distant future. He's bound and determined to make it work with her - mostly to justify blowing up our marriage after 25 years and his 13-year-old son's life, I think. I fantasize about the snide things I'd love to say to her. i fantasize about knocking her on her a$$. But in reality, I wonder if I would be gracious or cold. It depends upon the circumstances of our meeting.

You were thinking of your kids, and you really were being the better man. The fact that he could only mumble and not look you in the eye speaks volumes. Your kids will remember that.

Here's why. Kids - humans, really - remember strength. Pluto remembers her Dad making a strong statement - she remembers his bravery at going against his usual politeness to make a point that needed to be made. Your kids will remember that you were the brave one in this situation.

Well done.


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## Jane139

You should be proud for thinking of an example for your kids. And also having more class than him, or your ex.


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## Lostinthought61

i would look at both of them and say "there is no honor among thieves"...this man stole your life and and she accompanied him in that stealing...so i would NEVER shake his hands...but i would remind him that these are you children and he is never to lay a finger on them or be there father in anyway.


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## caliguy2349

eyesopen said:


> Background: Divorced for 3 years, co-parenting our two kids (both in elementary school) in collaborative and supportive way. She cheated on me (I found out after the fact, she is a WAW) and is now living with that person. It's a long story with many details but that's less the point here. He is an expat and was a household friend (though, not mine, no surprise here). Now he lives here. As I said we have a good parenting relationship, but I don't go to their house and though I have seen him, our paths don't cross. I make sure of that, and so does she.
> 
> Today I took the kids out for ice cream. We ordered and were sitting there eating. And then who walks in, yup. Her, and him (interesting things premonitions, I actually had a feeling it might happen, just for a split second, during the day). So there I was, she said hi to the kids, and him standing there with her.
> 
> I had often imagined what it might be like if/when we met. Needless to say I had a range of responses imagined... (yup, let your imagination run loose) and now suddenly and without planning here it (he) was.
> 
> It felt like eternity, my mind whizzing with what I might or should do. No, the fist to the face actually didn't come up as an option. I was not emotional or anything, that phase has passed. I actually felt how uncomfortable it is for me, and must be for him, and then my thoughts shifted to the kids. What do I want them to experience? What message do I want to send? What do I want them to remember? So, with great effort, and a pain/disgust that must have been apparent on my face, I reached out my hand and said: "{His name}, how are you". I don't know, I think he mumbled something. I tried to give a firm handshake, fairly sure I did. I vaguely recall his face is my peripheral vision, or maybe I looked directly at him, I don't recall. Anyway, then it was over. They stayed in the parlor, the kids went over, and I actually took the opportunity to sit outside with their mom to discuss something (kids related).
> 
> I don't really know what I want to say here. Probably just writing to vent. Issues of the place of forgiveness in our life come up, of course this is not a new subject for me to be thinking about (yes, I know, but in practice is more difficult than theory).
> 
> By way of attachments (yes it's the Buddhist speaking now), of course this is a big one. And attachment breeds suffering of course. I do think, however, that it was not my ego that wanted to show who was the bigger man to make the first move (well technically I can be his father, the prick, but that's another story...). Rather, my motivation really was for the children.
> 
> Anyway, I will stop rambling now.


How do you feel now? Would you have changed anything?

One day i will meet the OM, most likely by chance, and I am hoping i can control myself...I don't think I would extend my hand or acknowledge him if my son was there, but I am just hoping i wouldn't totally go off.


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## eyesopen

caliguy2349 said:


> How do you feel now? Would you have changed anything?


Good question. Yesterday after that I was quiet/reflective/withdrawn (as much as I could be what with the kids with me). I did not sleep well (but that may have been due to the fact that my daughter came to sleep in my bed). My girlfriend (who does not live with us) said something to the effect that why does/should it affect me, since I have moved on. I have, but then again, I really don't know (why, that is).

I have seen the replies above that suggest a certain attitude. To that, I would offer this Zen short story:

_Two war prisoners were sitting together many years after the war. Once asked the other, have your forgiven your captors yet? He replied, no! never! So then, said the first one, they still hold you captive..._

I believe the above attitude to be true. But practice is more difficult than theory (that's why they call it practice I guess).

The backdrop for this story is (also) that my kids have had issues related to his presence, but also have issues related to my girlfriend (she is also D+2). To make a long story short, especially my daughter, does not want either of us to have a partner and "certainly not both of you" as she says. I guess all kids to divorced parents are like that, wanting their parents back together. It's just that while she presented them with a done fact that he has come to be with her (albeit having to come and go due to visa issues), in my case they say "be with her on the days we are not with you".

But I digress.

But one thing that is related to the kids is that, for example, my son constructed a house in his simulated computer world (as part of some other game) and there were beds for his friends, sister, his mom, me, and yup, that guy (notice the absence of my girlfriend). And then he wanted to have them come up and show it to them. I sidestepped that issue, but it will keep coming up. And I am faced with, probably, at some point needing to give some type of explanation why I don't want to see that person. Needless to say that "your mom cheated on me with him" is not one I consider. So, it is difficult.

Anyway, on the issue of forgiveness, as I said practice is more difficult than theory. The ego is strong. But one must also have compassion for one self, not just for others.

Oh, and on the question would I have changed anything? Of course I would have preferred not to have the encounter in the first place. But then, on the other hand, life often presents us with exactly what we need in order to grown (just like my divorce, which while I did not want it and tried to avoid it at the time, turns out was the best thing for me in terms of my personal growth, and for her also, as we were friends but not suitable as partners and had grown apart). In those terms, I would not change what happened. I think.


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## caliguy2349

I own a small business, so while going through my divorce earlier this year I couldn't help but tell several customers what was going on , etc..

What makes me feel a little better, was realizing how common what happened to us is..As soon as I started telling people almost everyone had a story about divorce, betrayal, cheating, etc.. I didn't even know many of the seemingly "perfect life" customers I have are already on their second or third marriages..Or how many men in my extended family went through this..Or how many men forgave their cheating wives but are also unhappy deep inside..I even had a friend I would talk to weekly, and it wasn't until i told him about my divorce that he told me he is going through the same because his wife has been cheating for over a year.I mean many of these stories were far worse than mine. 

Sometimes I wonder if part of our anger is due to false expectations we had when going into marriage. Or false expectations of women in general.. (they cheat less, will be happy if you play your role well, are generally honest) etc..

As for the meeting and handshake, at least you didn't end up in jail or jeopardize custody of your children..


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## Nomorebeans

caliguy2349 said:


> I own a small business, so while going through my divorce earlier this year I couldn't help but tell several customers what was going on , etc..
> 
> What makes me feel a little better, was realizing how common what happened to us is..As soon as I started telling people almost everyone had a story about divorce, betrayal, cheating, etc.. I didn't even know many of the seemingly "perfect life" customers I have are already on their second or third marriages..Or how many men in my extended family went through this..Or how many men forgave their cheating wives but are also unhappy deep inside..I even had a friend I would talk to weekly, and it wasn't until i told him about my divorce that he told me he is going through the same because his wife has been cheating for over a year.I mean many of these stories were far worse than mine.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if part of our anger is due to false expectations we had when going into marriage. Or false expectations of women in general.. (they cheat less, will be happy if you play your role well, are generally honest) etc..


I've found this to be true, too.

Once I started telling other people - mostly women - my story, more often than not, they'd go "Lemme tell you what happened to ME."

The realtor who was selling my parents' house for me (I was the executrix of their estate), it turns out, had two children, 2 and 4 years old, when she found out her husband was cheating with the next door neighbor, who was divorced and had two kids herself. He moved in with her NEXT DOOR. She had to live next to them for the six months it took her to find another place and sell the house she was in. And she's a realtor - imagine someone who doesn't have the wherewithall to do that quickly. He's still with that woman and has been a WAF, even though he lived next door, to her kids. Barely sees them, even though they all live in the same area.

Other women friends have told me similar stories. One I thought had the perfect marriage and life turns out to have been left by her first husband of 18 years for an OW when she was 40 - practically on her 40th birthday - and she had two teenage sons. She ended up meeting her current husband a year later, who she now says is the love of her life, has never once disappointed her in any way, and that she feels sorry for her ex who, 18 years later, is still trying to get back into her life.

People at work, it turns out, are going or have just gone through similar things. Some are stunned when they find out I've just gone through this, because other than rapidly losing 25 pounds when I only needed to lose about 10, they say they haven't noticed anything different about me.

We really don't have a sign over our heads that says "Failure" or "Dumped" or even "Recently Divorced." Everyone has their crosses to bear and is worried about their own stuff - they really don't notice ours. It's really a reminder to always be kind - because even in the midst of this sh!t sandwich our WS's have served to us, there are so many other people who have it worse, or who are suffering just as much as we are.


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## caliguy2349

eyesopen said:


> I sidestepped that issue, but it will keep coming up. And I am faced with, probably, at some point needing to give some type of explanation why I don't want to see that person. Needless to say that "your mom cheated on me with him" is not one I consider. So, it is difficult.


One day your kids will know, I believe whether you say anything or not.. It is the most major thing that ever happened to them..

As for me, I was sure to include in the divorce paper what happened, so it couldn't be twisted later..

My son is only 4, and my ex wife did this when he just turned 3. One day when he is old enough I can't imagine that I won't let him know the truth.


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## Nomorebeans

My 13-year-old knows the truth. I asked my ex to tell him, while I was present. The ex is still mad at me for that. He wanted to pretend he left honorably and THEN met her sometime after we separated. He thinks our son "never needed to know." As if he isn't smart enough to think it was awfully quick of his Dad to move out in May, be divorced by July, and move a person he's supposedly just met from another state into his house across town two months after that. And even if he didn't figure it out, my ex thinks he wouldn't have resented him for getting so serious so quickly with someone else - this son who's said to me "You're not gonna move someone else in here, are you?" The Fog is thick with this one.


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## Marc878

Nomorebeans said:


> My 13-year-old knows the truth. I asked my ex to tell him, while I was present. The ex is still mad at me for that. He wanted to pretend he left honorably and THEN met her sometime after we separated. He thinks our son "never needed to know." As if he isn't smart enough to think it was awfully quick of his Dad to move out in May, be divorced by July, and move a person he's supposedly just met from another state into his house across town two months after that. And even if he didn't figure it out, my ex thinks he wouldn't have resented him for getting so serious so quickly with someone else - this son who's said to me "You're not gonna move someone else in here, are you?" The Fog is thick with this one.


Oh now he's so classy. I bet you miss him! Not


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## Dude007

The main reason to tell the kids the facts is because if you don't they may blame themselves and secondly, they can learn from their parent(s) mistakes as we all have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round

You handled this well, OP. Well done.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Dude007 said:


> The main reason to tell the kids the facts is because if you don't they may blame themselves and secondly, they can learn from their parent(s) mistakes as we all have.


After experiencing first hand the damage experienced upon finding out that you've been lied to by someone you trusted beyond measure, I will not ever lie to my children, and I won't help someone else deceive them either.

I had a hard time even keeping Santa Claus going.


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## Marc878

I developed over the years.

I don't act like an ass but I don't feel I have to talk with people I can't stand and I don't shake hands either. It's just not worth wasting the time/effort.

Not saying you have a confrontation but you treat them like a stranger on the street. They are nothing.

I see cheating spouses wanting to be friends all the time. Friends = loyalty, honesty and being trustworthy. They are nothing. Not worth a second thought. Why trear them any different?


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## caliguy2349

Marc878 said:


> I see cheating spouses wanting to be friends all the time. Friends = loyalty, honesty and being trustworthy. They are nothing. Not worth a second thought. Why trear them any different?


My ex wife found out I had a gf. So she said "seriously. Who would you come to and trust if you need anything. Me or her"

Like she forgot how she betrayed me. Lied. Lied in court. Lied to out friends. Cheated. In her mind she is still some wonderful friend I should trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

And your answer was?

A cake eater who's a legend in her own mind no doubt.


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## Dude007

Hopeful Cynic said:


> After experiencing first hand the damage experienced upon finding out that you've been lied to by someone you trusted beyond measure, I will not ever lie to my children, and I won't help someone else deceive them either.
> 
> I had a hard time even keeping Santa Claus going.


Get close to a spouse or SO, but NOT TOO CLOSE!!! There is no such thing as Santa Clause and RARELY a long term marriage with no betrayal be it financial or emotional or otherwise. The probability of them going bonkers at some point is just too high. DUDE


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## caliguy2349

Marc878 said:


> And your answer was?
> 
> A cake eater who's a legend in her own mind no doubt.


Lol. Yeah. She would say how she was a great wife. Etc. 

I was shocked she even asked that. I didn't say anything at first, thought for a minute, then reminded her of what she did. At which point she was like "oh I see you are starting with this. I have to go"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Bwahahahahahaha! That's one of the best I've heard. It's a classic.

Is she not to bright or just oblivious?


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## Ynot

caliguy2349 said:


> Lol. Yeah. She would say how she was a great wife. Etc.
> 
> I was shocked she even asked that. I didn't say anything at first, thought for a minute, then reminded her of what she did. At which point she was like "oh I see you are starting with this. I have to go"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah yes, I remember some of those exchanges. Any reference to their part of the situation is instantly labeled as anger and bitterness and dismissed as not being worthy of discussion.


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## caliguy2349

Ynot said:


> Ah yes, I remember some of those exchanges. Any reference to their part of the situation is instantly labeled as anger and bitterness and dismissed as not being worthy of discussion.


Exactly.. 

Another time it was like 

"I was really a good wife and mother.. You won't find again"

"Huh? You cheated, lied, had an affair and are now pregnant with the other guys kid.."

"See, thats why we couldn't work. You are always rude and angry.. Never appreciated"


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## Ynot

caliguy2349 said:


> Exactly..
> 
> Another time it was like
> 
> "I was really a good wife and mother.. You won't find again"
> 
> "Huh? You cheated, lied, had an affair and are now pregnant with the other guys kid.."
> 
> "See, thats why we couldn't work. You are always rude and angry.. Never appreciated"


LOL, laughing with you, not at you!


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## farsidejunky

Why do you even take calls from her?


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## depressedandexhausted

Good job on not hitting him in the jaw, I dont think I could stop from doing that in my current situation. I feel Karma comes in various ways, those two will get theirs eventually.


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## caliguy2349

farsidejunky said:


> Why do you even take calls from her?


I used to thinking it was an emergency or something... But it never was..


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## Pluto2

caliguy2349 said:


> Exactly..
> 
> Another time it was like
> 
> "I was really a good wife and mother.. You won't find again"
> 
> "Huh? You cheated, lied, had an affair and are now pregnant with the other guys kid.."
> 
> "See, thats why we couldn't work. You are always rude and angry.. Never appreciated"


This is so funny.
So apparently if BS could just learn to "appreciate" the lies, betrayal and infidelity-life would be all wonderful. Some WS never leave the fog, even after divorce.


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