# Question for BS - Why stay?



## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Not going to post my story, it's too long and I'm not sure if it would make your answers any different since I want the answer from your own perspective and experiences. 
I have read 100's of posts on various websites about R. Weeks after R, months, years, decades. And one thing remains with all of the BS. Life does become easier and for the most part many can move on, however, it still hurts like hell. There are still triggers decades later and BS never forget the cruel betrayal inflicted on them. They will always see glimpses of the betrayal and their love/marriage will never be pure again. Forgive yes, forget never. 

I do understand this and agree it is totally justifiable to feel this way. 

So here is my question, why not just move on then? Why not just leave and find someone who has not done this unthinkable cruel thing to you? Far easier to start over than to try and start over from the ashes of what your WS burned to hell. 

Because you love the person that betrayed you or because you loved the person you throught you married? 

Don't you want to look at the person you are married to and know that no matter what life threw at you, no matter how bad it got, that your spouse never turned their back on you or the marriage? 

God I love my BH so much and I will never quit trying, but I am really struggling with these questions. I will never try to control the outcome and will leave it his decision, but God am I doubting today. Not for me (I'm selfish for asking him to stay with him), but I really wonder deep down in my heart if he would be so much happier starting over.

FWW-42, BH-37 
4kids - 2 mine 12 &14, 2 ours 2 & 5 
Over year EA/PA 
DDay 9/14/12 
T-12yrs, M-6yrs 
Begging for a second chance.


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

Because I have kids and I will be damned if she marries someone else and he is disciplining my kids. I couldn't take it. My kids calling someone else dad. 

Also because we have kids, I will have to see her for the rest of my life.

I haven't decided on R or D yet (it has been 5 months) but we are in the same house now because of the kids. Maybe things will work out long term but if I had no children we would never know because I would have packed all her sh!t driven her to her parents house, dropped her off on the front lawn and told her to F Off!

For me if it works long term it is due to the children keeping us together now.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Fear of being a part time dad, finances, heavily invested emotions, glimpses of woman he loved and was happy with.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If your the husband you are going to get the short end of the stick so some may choose to stay because their standard of living will be better.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

To me, it was kids. Why should I punish those innocent ones?


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## december (Jul 31, 2012)

Trying - only for the kids.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

There is no good reason. Reconciliation is irrational act, but then so is marriage these days.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

UW, I'm a long time past the event. And I forgave. Why? Because I love my family, and I love her. We've survived raising a child with mental illness, a child with a serious injury, death of our parents, dementia in a parent. Basically, we've been through life together. And I love her.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I'm trying for a number of reasons:
- I love her.
- I made a vow before God that even if she s4!t on I won't break without a lot of effort.
- I want to demonstrate to my teenage kids that relationships take work. 
- because my WW wife seems truly remorseful and has been making the changes requested.
- because I made mistakes too, nothing as awful, but still. I would want a second chance, so 'do unto others'.

I think if any of these were not at play, I would have kicked her to the curb on Dday. I could deal with her EA, it's the lying that has me all in knots. This is a woman I have my complete trust for the past 21 years, and she lied to me. Point blank to my face. I don't trust her anymore. Not having complete faith in what she says is still very painful.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

27 years together, history, love, sorry, remorse, vows, change, compassion, understanding, forgiveness.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

It's not an easy question to answer - sometimes I ask myself the same. Some days I really don't know the answer, other days I rationalize as follows.

I have 27 years invested in our marriage, that counts for something. We have kids, I believe it is best for them to have both parents present in the family unit. I still love her, just not the infidelity trait that I just discovered recently.

If I were to leave, it would be to live single - seeking out a new partner... well, 50% chance, give and take a few, that I will end up with just another cheat. Might as well work on the relationship with the one, where I am aware of this trait beforehand.

I would have a much more clear answer, if my wife did everything human possible to make up for her mistakes - as is, I just doubt from time to time.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

First and foremost, a new and committed love for my wife

A period of self reflection and empathy for her, understanding how she got to where she was and my part in fostering an environment that made her vulnerable to it. 

Absolute resolve to do everything in my power to keep my kids from having to suffer the effects of a failed marriage.

Financially scuttling ourselves.

5+ years post D-Day and doing fine.


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## life.is.pain (Aug 28, 2012)

DevistatedDad said:


> Because I have kids and I will be damned if she marries someone else and he is disciplining my kids. I couldn't take it. My kids calling someone else dad.
> 
> Also because we have kids, I will have to see her for the rest of my life.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

because everyone makes mistakes.
not everyone learns from them, but everyone makes them.
either learning from, or the failure to learn from, mistakes and make necessary changes to avoid repeating them, to me, made the difference between me staying and going.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

So here is my question, why not just move on then? 

*I am only 5 months out right now. If things do not improve mentally for me within 5 yrs.....I will move on. We have three kids 13, 10 and 1. I feel it is in their best interest to try to R. He has had a one time offense. Mutliples would have killed the marriage right away.*

Why not just leave and find someone who has not done this unthinkable cruel thing to you? 

*If I did not have kids, I would have.*

Far easier to start over than to try and start over from the ashes of what your WS burned to hell. 

Because you love the person that betrayed you or because you loved the person you throught you married? 

*I love both....he is the father of my kids and we have been married 13 yrs. But that does not change the fact that I am angry at times with him.*


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

And also.... Your story is not too long.
Post it. It is very cathartic. If you don't wish to post it for other reasons, that is fine. If it seems too long, I wouldn't let that stop you from posting.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

DevistatedDad said:


> And also.... Your story is not too long.
> Post it. It is very cathartic. If you don't wish to post it for other reasons, that is fine. If it seems too long, I wouldn't let that stop you from posting.


:iagree:
Post your story, the details may reveal more advice for you.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I stay because she is doing everything she can after her four mont EA,even met up with he old high school bf four times in the middle of the day in the wallmart parking lot,four quick peck on the lips and four quick hugs,she was so nervouse she's stay five minutes and run.
She did everything she could to get me out of the house.
She sees what she has done to me and the kids but is so regretful and beating the crap out of herself and she's scared sh!tless I might leave.
Its a constant battle to stay tho.
I f I change my mind she has offered to sign anything stating that she recieve nothing.
She know she did this to me and the kids and it makes her sick,she really was in la la land.
One day I want out and the next I love the hell out of her.
I know she wont do it again.
She loves me and I love her so I have to keep trying,I'm not a quitter,its just so hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I stay because I want to. She has done all that has been asked of her and plenty that hasn't. I have to try to focus on who she is now and not what she did in the past. If it can't be done then we will walk away knowing we tried the best we could have.


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## Seesaw (Jun 5, 2012)

Well, children are a big factor, but there are others.

Right now I am separated and both us give reconciliation no more than a 5% chance. My wife of 13 years had an EA while we were together and, I assume, it is now a PA following our separation. But it is possible. The first thing is that we have never stopped loving each other. That is fundamental. We respect the person within the actions. Second, we are both starting to take ownership of where our relationship went wrong (not the affair, but the prior breakdown). Third, you come to a point - or at least I have - where you just see the frail, flawed, deeply hurt child who is still there in all of us.

When I feel angry with my WW, I picture her at seven years old, rejected by her dad. I see her in her sixteenth year, abused by an adult then discarded. I see the pain I caused her (as we all inevitably do) and I see her struggling to find her own identity. How can I hate that child? That is who she is at the deepest level: We all are. She didn't plan to hurt me. She doesn't want to hurt me now. I forgive her. I profoundly let her go and wish her well.

It may be that we can never live together again. Or we might just regain that spark. I might never be able to bring myself to trust her, and she might never see past my faults. Who knows?

Recently we have shared some brief good moments. An uplifting text here, a hug there, just a smile perhaps. The way I see it, if there is to be any chance we have to start again from scratch. I force myself to look at her as I did when we first met. No expectations, no deadlines, no ultimatums, no baggage. Just two tiny specks on this lonely planet, trying to connect, trying to live as best we can. No cake eating though. She is on benefits and finding things hard. That was her choice and she needs to live with it.

It is a cliché, but letting go and forgiveness are the only way to live FOR YOURSELF. Once BOTH partners recognise that, who knows what will happen.

Like I say, a 5% chance for us at best. But right now it doesn't matter. What I know from the depths of my being is that neither of us will ever share with anyone else the same depth of passion, trust and love that we once had - and two wonderful children. We are linked by an unbreakable love forever.

Good luck!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm with him today because I DID end it on D day. I kicked him out and was DONE with him. I never wanted to see him again.

He took it upon himself to prove to me we were worth it. 

I realized how much he loves me, and how much I love him, while we were apart. I also realized how fine I was on my own. I know that without him I can be perfectly happy. So the reason I'm with him today is that I choose to be. not because of kids or history or anything else - because I prefer my life with him in it.

I am also far surer that he will not cheat again than I ever could be that some new guy wouldn't cheat. 

And, I would have the same memories and triggers if I wasn't with him. I had them while we were apart. He knows exactly why I have them, and he knows how to help me through them. With someone new, I would not have that support. I would have to suppress my pain, not express it and deal with it. Otherwise I really doubt anyone would want to be with me.

We're so happy together now that I'm almost embarrassed


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Seesaw said:


> Well, children are a big factor, but there are others.
> 
> Right now I am separated and both us give reconciliation no more than a 5% chance. My wife of 13 years had an EA while we were together and, I assume, it is now a PA following our separation. But it is possible. The first thing is that we have never stopped loving each other. That is fundamental. We respect the person within the actions. Second, we are both starting to take ownership of where our relationship went wrong (not the affair, but the prior breakdown). Third, you come to a point - or at least I have - where you just see the frail, flawed, deeply hurt child who is still there in all of us.
> 
> ...


What an honest, courageous, tender, lovely and heartfelt declaration of love that was. If everyone were to look so deeply into the heart and mind of their spouse and then examine their own heart and mind whether they, themselves, we're the BS or the WS, so many more marriages could be, happily, reconciled. And, in cases where the marriage isn't reconcilable, at least you would be able to reconcile within yourself..... Because that is just as important going forward in your own life. Thank you for sharing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

No way to dismiss the children, the financial consequences, all the practical ramifications... but after removing most of the "entrapment", treatening factors I decided to give it a last shot, to hear the case. Still you have to deal with all kinds of racionalizations (excuses) to stay, to deal "pride swallowing " factor, to fight ego, the fear of unknown...
At the end the natural response to betrayal is getting away from the traitor. The only reasons left to stay are necessarily irrational.
Love is irrational. I stayed out of love.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

naga75 said:


> because everyone makes mistakes.
> not everyone learns from them, but everyone makes them.
> either learning from, or the failure to learn from, mistakes and make necessary changes to avoid repeating them, to me, made the difference between me staying and going.


My boss has a business rule: never ever give a second chance to a partner or contractor who let you down. Worked for him well so far; he claims it applies to all fields of human activity. There were quite a few cases when I did give second chance to people for one reason an another. I regretted it more often than not.

(But still in R anyway, go figure)


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Here's the deal for me - personally, I believe, staying due to some vows that I made 27 years ago when my spouse violated the crap out of them is just idiotic. I mean, vows apply to one and not the other? However, truth be known, I believe in continuity of life. I grew up with a family that saw alot of crap through and managed to stay together until one spouse died. When my ex had an EA with a friend - I was deeply hurt but I could see how her as a human could be attracted to him and want to be with him. Also, I could see her as a person I have been with over 27 years and know what she has been through and thus want to be wwith someone else. 

Then when she had the PA, I also could see her point, I mean, i was the only one she was with (so I thought) and could understand her if something inside of her felt there was more out there. 

So those would be reasons I would work it out BUT it was the deceit and underhandedness that is trouble getting over. You just dont treat someone youve known for over 28 years like that...
You dont go out and try to arrange a separation agreement behind you spouses back 
You dont bad mouth him to all your friends, etc. 

Here's the deal, she could still come back tomorrow and if she apologized and spoke candidly about what she went through and why she did what she did ... there still might be a chance and I might even be willing to forgive but I do not think it will happen 
because dishonesty does not breed honesty...it breeds more dishonesty.

Truth be known, I still care about her as a person. I hate to see her go through pain. We had a long time together and 2 children and I try to honor that. But now I know I have to honor myself first and foremost - and that is where the rub is....

I guess saying goodbye to her means saying goodbye to grand-children coming over the grampy and grandma's place. It means no familiy reunions. It means awkwardness at weddings, grads, etc. 

But I know now I must be respected first...and I am not sure she can do that. This is the reason I can not go back to her.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

snap said:


> My boss has a business rule: never ever give a second chance to a partner or contractor who let you down. Worked for him well so far; he claims it applies to all fields of human activity. There were quite a few cases when I did give second chance to people for one reason an another. I regretted it more often than not.
> 
> (But still in R anyway, go figure)


i would find that mentality rather inflexible.
not to mention i would have zero social acquaintences or family members left lol.
we've all made mistakes, and let people in our lives down, have we not?
i would say i am about even with the results of giving people a chance to rectify doing me wrong.
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
as long as my wife maintains NC and actually puts forth a tangible effort to fixing the problems that she had, that we had that caused all this sh!t to happen, im all in. if that stops, so do i.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

1. She immediately met all of my demands. No contact. Full disclosure. Completely transparent.

2. She showed remorse. She showed me she truly regreted what she had done.

3. My children. If I could spare them a broken home and she was trying in earnest to reconcile then I should.

4. My 20 year emotional investment.

Yes I wish I had a W that never betrayed me and yes it will hurt for a long time. Yes I wish I could look back on a M without this in it. No it will never fully go away. I just hope some day it doesn't matter anymore,.


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## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Funny that the day after I posted this......

Read the thread "BS contacting oldGF during R"


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## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

DevistatedDad said:


> And also.... Your story is not too long.
> Post it. It is very cathartic. If you don't wish to post it for other reasons, that is fine. If it seems too long, I wouldn't let that stop you from posting.


I started writing it a while ago and saved it in Word. It is long, but unfortunately the story is not near over I've recently found out.

I didn't post it because my BH found out I was on this message board and blasted me about not telling him. He was right of course but I wanted some private discussion on our R. I hope to God he doesn't read my other thread before I confront him.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

From the practical standpoint...definitely, the children. Having grown up in a family with parents who successfully reconciled after betrayal and witnessing their love and closeness in their twilight years -- I saw how good it could be.

From having witnessed the devistation of divorce as a result of infidelity on a siblings' children -- I saw the flip-side.

Because of that, I initially stayed.

But the underpinnings are love. And forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there's nothing. I believe that forgiveness is one of the greatest gifts you can give to another. The effort towards reconcilliation is worth it. Some days that surge of love is stronger than others. But the commitment to try is the driving force. 

However, after putting in 100% towards repairing our marriage, if down the road, there's a return to that "other self" -- fuhgeddaboudit. There's an old proverb that says "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly". Now THAT'S not healthy. No need to have that around!


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> *But the underpinnings are love. And forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there's nothing. I believe that forgiveness is one of the greatest gifts you can give to another. The effort towards reconcilliation is worth it. Some days that surge of love is stronger than others. But the commitment to try is the driving force.*


:iagree:


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

naga75 said:


> :iagree:


naga...don't get me wrong though. some days i'd like to pop the guy....oiy. it's work.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> naga...don't get me wrong though. some days i'd like to pop the guy....oiy. it's work.


ahhhhh yes i totally understand. and work it is.
sometimes i just have to...walk off.


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## shattered man (Oct 28, 2012)

Its been 3 months since my DDAY....I have had issues in the past she has her own issues we have 3 children together.....I am working daily to change and she says she wants to try to save the marriage....I love her....we all make mistakes why not try to forgive....marriages arent disposable the vows are sacred....if both parties are willing change and work need to be done along with patience


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## Rissen (Nov 12, 2012)

Like many have said I stay because of my kids. Over the last 6 months since my D-day I have thought about nothing but the depth of my wife's betrayal over her 4 year affair. The thousands of lies she told me and the years of tainted memories haunt me. I know my life would be much easier if I left. Finding someone new that was honest and had integrity and building a new life with them would probably help me heal faster. But I cant stop thinking about my kids growing up in a broken home and although my wife didnt consider our kids when starting her affair I wont be as selfish as she was. My kids are worth trying to reconcile. My oldest will be 18 in 4 years, I figure I can make it work for that long at least.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rissen said:


> Like many have said I stay because of my kids.


My brain must be wired completely differently than most people's because both times I broke up with my husband (left the first, kicked the second out) I knew exactly what it would do to the kids but I also knew that to stay in the horrible relationship I was in would be far far worse.

Why do you think your kids are better off growing up seeing one parent treat the other one with disrespect and walking all over them and cheating on them??? Is that really the image of adulthood you want them to grow up with? How many people have posted on here that they just wish their parents had split up already?? How many have posted that they've been put in the untenable position of finding out that one parent was cheating, and how it tore them apart? Do you really want your kids to discover what your wife is up to one day, and think you don't know, and have to choose between you?

Staying for the kids is NOT doing the kids any favors, except in the VERY RARE case where the two adults can be civil to each other and/or totally pretend everything is fine. Kids are NOT stupid, they KNOW what is up.


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## Rissen (Nov 12, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> My brain must be wired completely differently than most people's because both times I broke up with my husband (left the first, kicked the second out) I knew exactly what it would do to the kids but I also knew that to stay in the horrible relationship I was in would be far far worse.
> 
> Why do you think your kids are better off growing up seeing one parent treat the other one with disrespect and walking all over them and cheating on them??? Is that really the image of adulthood you want them to grow up with? How many people have posted on here that they just wish their parents had split up already?? How many have posted that they've been put in the untenable position of finding out that one parent was cheating, and how it tore them apart? Do you really want your kids to discover what your wife is up to one day, and think you don't know, and have to choose between you?
> 
> Staying for the kids is NOT doing the kids any favors, except in the VERY RARE case where the two adults can be civil to each other and/or totally pretend everything is fine. Kids are NOT stupid, they KNOW what is up.


Well my kids dont know about my wife's affair. We havent discussed it with them. My wife and I very civil when we are around the kids and have been discreet when talking/fighting behind closed doors. If our reconciliation does not work then I will tell our kids but until then I dont want them to know. My wife's mother had an affair when my wife was young and ended her marriage and frankly I would like to try and end what I see as a generational pattern of behavior for my daughters. I dont suscribe to the idea that it is in the best interest of my kids to have a part time mom or dad. Nor do I want another man involved in raising my kids.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rissen said:


> I dont want them to know.


Don't kid yourself. They know.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Rissen said:


> Well my kids dont know about my wife's affair. We havent discussed it with them. My wife and I very civil when we are around the kids and have been discreet when talking/fighting behind closed doors. If our reconciliation does not work then I will tell our kids but until then I dont want them to know. My wife's mother had an affair when my wife was young and ended her marriage and frankly I would like to try and end what I see as a generational pattern of behavior for my daughters. I dont suscribe to the idea that it is in the best interest of my kids to have a part time mom or dad. Nor do I want another man involved in raising my kids.


Good for you.

I hope it works out.

Who knows what is right? At least your motives are pure and you can look your children in the eye.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> So here is my question, why not just move on then?


Because I love my wife so much that I could see no other way than to forgive her and make it work.

Has it been easy? No, not very. Was it worthwhile? Oh, yes, indeed it was.


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## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

cpacan said:


> :iagree:
> Post your story, the details may reveal more advice for you.


I will post it, just so much happening right now. See my other thread and you'll understand. Yes, the advice I have gotten here, although tough, has helped me so much.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I will stay,my Dad is in the hospital tonigh,I've seen loved ones die,she has had people close to her die.
We lean on eachother and have gotten eachother through some really rough times.
She's genuine,she's true.
I'll stay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Seesaw said:


> Well, children are a big factor, but there are others.
> 
> Right now I am separated and both us give reconciliation no more than a 5% chance. My wife of 13 years had an EA while we were together and, I assume, it is now a PA following our separation. But it is possible. The first thing is that we have never stopped loving each other. That is fundamental. We respect the person within the actions. Second, we are both starting to take ownership of where our relationship went wrong (not the affair, but the prior breakdown). Third, you come to a point - or at least I have - where you just see the frail, flawed, deeply hurt child who is still there in all of us.
> 
> ...



I hope you both make it together, because it really sounds to me that it is that once in a lifetime love that is worth saving. Once you can look through all the hurt, pain, and resentment, that love is still there. Always will be. 

God this post really hit home with me. I wish you happiness, regardless of what happens.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

Well, this is an interesting question and one I think that many would have different ideas of the answer to.

But for me, it brings up the flip side of the question as well. Just as the BS has a multitude of issues to overcome, so does the wayward.

Why stay? (this is rhetorical and not aimed at any one in particular)

The wayward is unhappy/unfulfilled, feeling unloved or unappreciated or any other laundry list of reasons why they strayed. They checked out of an unfulfilling relationship for one that filled a need. So when they are caught, why do they stay? Why go through the withdraw, the embarrassment, the pain and the work to stay with the betrayed spouse?


I think, at least in my case, the answer is complicatedly simple. The results of affairs only have 3 outcomes. They are divorce (the damage cant be overcome or overlooked), Denial (one party simply buries the head in the sand and things move on along) or Recovery.

In Recovery, the only way it truly works is when both people realize their mistakes, their part of the blame, their shortcomings and take the steps to address them. I feel THIS is what most people who stay HOPE is the outcome. 

We all want to pray for the best in our spouses. For the BS, Will their Wayward step up, take responsibility for what they did and take the steps necessary to repair the damage? For the wayward, will the BS accept their portion of blame in the affair and make the changes in themselves necessary for the marriage to heal and grow?

Im not saying that these are the correct answers to the problem, only what they spouses hope the other will accomplish and as i have seen over the years, the instances of R that have worked, only works when both of these hopes are met. 


So... in answer to the question (in my usual long and complicatedly simple way) I think we stay in the hopes that the high expectations we have for our spouses to "Do the right thing/heavy lifting/making of amends" will come to pass and prove to us that they can be the person we see them as potentially being.

Q~


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

How progressive of you to see that the 'BS needs to take their part of the blame' for the affair.

I am speechless.

Edit: To clarify - you are wrong. Perhaps you are blameshifting, or rugsweeping, but you are wrong.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris989 said:


> How progressive of you to see that the 'BS needs to take their part of the blame' for the affair.
> 
> I am speechless.


In some cases that is true in a sense, as I stated in my earlier post. I took responsibility for my part in the break down in the marriage. I spent time in self reflection to understand how my actions made her vulnerable to it. But she, in the end, made the decision to start down a relationship path unbeknownst to me that eventually tanked the marriage. That was her decision and in the end she paid the emotional penance for it on several levels. I am not saying it was my fault that she did it, but I do understand my part in the process and I think that helped in our recovery. And I needed to address those issues in order for us to succeed once we entered into the R phase.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

MrQuatto said:


> For the wayward, will the BS accept their portion of blame in the affair and make the changes in themselves necessary for the marriage to heal and grow?
> Q~


Did I just read that? Cuz I think I did. Wow. 

Here's the well-know fact: Both parties are responsible for their share of the health or demise of the marriage. 

Here's the other well-known fact: The WS is 100% responsible for his/her decision to go outside of the marraige instead of finding an HONEST way to deal with the problems, confront or divorce.

Really, do you believe that the BS is partially responsible for the WS' poor, hurtful decision to cheat? 

"My mean, awful spouse just forced me by [neglect, meaness, sexless, ---insert whatever excuse here---] to go and meet my own needs with that wonderful, awesome, loving, perfect, in-tune to my needs, fartless woman/man."

wow.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

The “Why I didn’t leave.” 
Honestly... I couldn’t ever answer that question concretely. I can justify all day long, then turn around and counter-point the same argument. I could do the same thing with having my own affair, divorce, etc. So, I dug inside. 

The simple answer is it did not consistently feel right to leave. It wasn’t who I am and what I value in life. Lots and lots of moments where I was convinced it was time (even now at 3.5 years out). But never for more than two days. _Only one exception: False R, new DD with the discovery of the now underground EA. I was ready to divorce then... I made serious preparations like a house ready to move into. And my wife went into panic and desperation mode... Thus giving me that hope once more and I put the plans on hold again to see where this new direction was going._

What I’ve discovered along the way is it really doesn’t matter ‘why’ I justify. If I sell myself some bull to get through the next 48hrs, it’s good enough to buy that time I need so the rollercoaster can pull out of the pit and clear my head before making a decision clouded and magnified by out of control emotions.. I continue to wait for consistent feelings about her maintaining my distance.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In some cases that is true in a sense, as I stated in my earlier post. I took responsibility for my part in the break down in the marriage. I spent time in self reflection to understand how my actions made her vulnerable to it. But she, in the end, made the decision to start down a relationship path unbeknownst to me that eventually tanked the marriage. That was her decision and in the end she paid the emotional penance for it on several levels. I am not saying it was my fault that she did it, but I do understand my part in the process and I think that helped in our recovery. And I needed to address those issues in order for us to succeed once we entered into the R phase.



Okay --- that's better. phew. for a moment there i thought you were blaming the bs for the ws's affair. But what you write here clarifies what you meant. Big diff, and I agree.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Well, it certainly is nice to see all the musings I have in my own head put down by those in similar sitiations around me. Thank you! 

However, as I read these responses, I think to myself... Finances? Naw, I'd come out ahead (waaaay ahead! ). Kids? Sure, that sounds altruistic, but in the end, I would always, and I stress ALWAYS find a way to take care of my kids. And I know the statistics on kids coming out of married homes vs broken homes, etc., etc., etc. Happiness in the home is the variable that makes the statistics difficult. 

I would have a very hard time seeing another man taking care of my kids, even part time...and it would KILL my wife to have another woman taking care of her kids! But those situations too, would be accomodated as fact, eventually. 

In the end, it is love. I was told at one time or another that true love is knowing all there is to know about another person, and choosing to be around them anyway. So given this definition, I guess it is a continuous, dynamic process. Sometimes taking turns into dark areas, we may have otherwise not wanted to go, yet were taken anyway. 

And when I think about that definition, it allows me to acknowledge that the other person may, at some point in time, stop allowing me to continue to know them. And as such, I will not be able to love them any longer, as they have shut me out. I fear that this is where my marriage is currently headed. But because of where I am in my forgiveness journey and how I am seeing things, I cannot, and will not, feel responsible for losing this love. 

But what do I know? Ha!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

MrQuatto said:


> For the wayward, will the BS accept their portion of blame in the affair ....


I have the correct answer to this particular issues; nothing, nil, nix, null, aught, cipher, cypher, naught, zero, zilch, nihil, NADA!!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I have the correct answer to this particular issues; nothing, nil, nix, null, aught, cipher, cypher, naught, zero, zilch, nihil, NADA!!


No way am I accepting ANY blame,she choose that path not me.I even offered counseling.
I didnt push her to another man.
Willing to take my share of the troubles in the marriage but 0.00% of the EA
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Why not just leave and find someone who has not done this unthinkable cruel thing to you? Far easier to start over than to try and start over from the ashes of what your WS burned to hell.
> 
> 
> FWW-42, BH-37
> ...


Because the BS was happy enough in the marraige to not have an affair or want a divorce. Repairing the damage from the WS's affair will keep the BS's world intact. Then if there are kids, then their world is saved as well.

Ann Landers when asked whether to divorce or not she would say ask yourself would you be better off with or without staying married to the WS? Of course the affair would have to be over and NC with the OP.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Mercy.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

My wife didn't do anything wrong or anything that caused me to stray. I simply had a compulsion for variety and was somewhat bored with routine marital sex.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

MrQuatto said:


> We all want to pray for the best in our spouses. *For the BS, Will their Wayward step up, take responsibility for what they did and take the steps necessary to repair the damage? For the wayward, will the BS accept their portion of blame in the affair and make the changes in themselves necessary for the marriage to heal and grow?
> *
> Q~





Chris989 said:


> How progressive of you to see that the 'BS needs to take their part of the blame for the affair.
> 
> I am speechless.
> 
> Edit: To clarify - you are wrong. Perhaps you are blameshifting, or rugsweeping, but you are wrong.



Chris,

I, honestly, believe that what Mr. Quatto was trying to convey when he said *"will the BS accept their portion of blame* in the affair" was *'will the BS accept their portion of blame for their own negative contributions to the marriage.... prior to the affair?' * I believe that he, too, was a betrayed spouse so I don't think that he would be inclined to try to justify the WS's choice to have an affair, but to acknowledge that in *some* cases of infidelity there were significant negative issues in the marriage prior to the affair and when considering whether or not to reconcile this is something that should be taken into consideration if you are the betrayed spouse in that type of marriage.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

doc_martin said:


> However, as I read these responses, I think to myself... Finances? Naw, I'd come out ahead (waaaay ahead! ).


You know, one that hit me was something someone else wrote on these forums about finances... I’d be way ahead too..
Right now, as it stands, I sign my paycheck, the wife deposits it and it’s gone as she pays bills and whatnots. Basically I never see it. It’s even been awhile (and she got a good job since I last checked), but the best should could get from me would be 30%... So I’d have 70% more money than I see today..


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm one year into R.

I originally stayed with my wife for the wrong reasons. Our child was grown so that wasn't a factor. I suffered with insecurity, low self esteem, worried about finances, dealt with hysterical bonding, and didn't know the ways I should have handled things - like I do now.

But the reason I continue to stay, is that my wife is loving and remorseful. Currently my life with her is better than it was before. But I don't take that for granted. Things could change. If my life goes back to the way it was or worse, I'll feel free to leave without regret, for giving my best effort to salvage our 25 year marriage.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Seesaw said:


> Well, children are a big factor, but there are others.
> 
> Right now I am separated and both us give reconciliation no more than a 5% chance. My wife of 13 years had an EA while we were together and, I assume, it is now a PA following our separation. But it is possible. The first thing is that we have never stopped loving each other. That is fundamental. We respect the person within the actions. Second, we are both starting to take ownership of where our relationship went wrong (not the affair, but the prior breakdown). Third, you come to a point - or at least I have - where you just see the frail, flawed, deeply hurt child who is still there in all of us.
> 
> ...


This is, just, wow. Tears in the eyes at work.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'm pretty sure those as me who are years ahead recognize they lied to themselves to a certain degree about why they stayed. It's not necessarily wrong as long we realize it when we are ready for it.
I'm very happy reconciling/ed. After discarding all the selfbullsh1t I think it was only love what left me here.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

RWB said:


> Mercy.


and forgiveness.


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## TrustIsGone (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm only 2 weeks into this whole process. The ending of R or D is undecided. I enjoyed reading this thread though.. great question.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

naga75 said:


> because everyone makes mistakes.
> not everyone learns from them, but everyone makes them.
> either learning from, or the failure to learn from, mistakes and make necessary changes to avoid repeating them, to me, made the difference between me staying and going.


As someone who is contemplating divorce 11 years later because it has always haunted me and the triggers will always be there and I'm just tired of it all...I was feeling okay about some of the replies and understand why some people stay - and then this?!! Nothing upsets me more than someone calling an affair a "MISTAKE"!!! A mistake is putting down a wrong number on a math test... a mistake is putting the wrong amount or ingredient in to a recipe... Both happened accidentally... AN AFFAIR IS A CHOICE!!!!! Your spouse CHOSE to have sexual relations with another person...many times ongoing, sometimes more than 1 affair - but it doesn't matter if it's 1 time or 100 - IT WAS A CHOICE THEY MADE - NOT A MISTAKE! Big difference!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

naga75 said:


> we've all made *mistakes*, and let people in our lives down, have we not?


There's that word again? Seriously;

*mis·take* (m-stk)
n.
1. An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
2. A misconception or misunderstanding.
v. mis·took (m-stk), mis·tak·en (m-stkn), mis·tak·ing, mis·takes 
v.tr.
1. To understand wrongly; misinterpret: mistook my politeness for friendliness.
2. To recognize or identify incorrectly: He mistook her for her sister.

*choice* (chois)
n.
1. The act of choosing; selection.
2. The power, right, or liberty to choose; option.
3. One that is chosen.
4. A number or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of styles and colors.
5. The best or most preferable part.
6. Care in choosing.
7. An alternative.

*An affair is a choice* And it's a never the right *choice*. The right choice would be to seek counciling or leave...not have sex with someone else... Just my thoughts and opinion.
But as you see - because of the hell I've been through - I know my wife didn't make a MISTAKE..She mad a CHOICE!


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> How progressive of you to see that the 'BS needs to take their part of the blame' for the affair.
> 
> I am speechless.
> 
> Edit: To clarify - you are wrong. Perhaps you are blameshifting, or rugsweeping, but you are wrong.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
And I couldn't agree MORE!!!
We blameshifted, we rugswept, we had a bad therapist who said in order for it to work I had to take some of the blame for "pushing her away", and I told myself that she was manipulated. This LIE got me through 10 plus years...and then something happened to cause the festering wound to come to the surface and it was rough!!! Maybe even harder than when I originally caught them as I finally faced the truth of what really happened. I actually had supresses memories that came back and again - I can't express how hard it was....

*"the 'BS needs to take their part of the blame' for the affair"* :lol::rofl:
Maybe in pushing the person away - maybe in contributing to the problems...But then the correct CHOICE is to seek help or divorce - NOT SLEEP WITH OTHERS!!! 
Sorry, but this crap just kills me! Wow....


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In some cases that is true in a sense, as I stated in my earlier post. I took responsibility for my part in the break down in the marriage. I spent time in self reflection to understand how my actions made her vulnerable to it. But she, in the end, made the decision to start down a relationship path unbeknownst to me that eventually tanked the marriage. That was her decision and in the end she paid the emotional penance for it on several levels. I am not saying it was my fault that she did it, but I do understand my part in the process and I think that helped in our recovery. And I needed to address those issues in order for us to succeed once we entered into the R phase.


This I can understand....


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry you're upset about it, I am too. But I really don't care what they call it. It sucks whether it's a mistake or a choice, or a bad choice made by mistake.

When I google it, i get almost the same definition as you, just with the bolded paragraph appended: an error in action, calculation, opinion, or *judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.*

Doesn't this cover a lot of the stories we hear - an error in judgement caused by poor reasoning? Or maybe the english language is just different from my language in this case, where the word mistake also covers "I did something wrong".

Personally, I get more offended by the tendency to claim the neutral "IT was a mistake" instead of the more responsible "I made a mistake".


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Words like mistake, indiscretion and wayward don't come close to describing reality for the BS. In the shock and pain of Dday they are easier terms to digest and use than deceitful, cake eating, cheating, wh0r3/b4st4rd. These harder terms, while cathartic, are probably not recommended for those who decide to R.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

When I took my marriage vows - the standard Christian vows - I did for example commit to strengthen/uphold the marriage "in sickness and in health" and under other tough circumstances. But I did NOT swear to uphold the marriage in the aftermath of sexual infidelity. I.e. adultry is not just another of life's up and downs, it is NOT just another on a list of slights or insults attribuatble to both partners. It is a violation of the central tenet of the marriage, cutting away in one fell swoop the bond of intimacy that in many cases had taken years to build. We kid ourselves to look at it in any other way.

and it is seldom an act that the BS "contributed" to, because it is usually quite disproportionate to anything that the BS had ever done to the WS. i.e. a cannon in response to a paper cut, a sword in response to a frown, a cruel act of betrayal in response to "not making spouse feel loved" etc. 

It seems to me that staying with the WS has more to do with the BS' fear of the future than "the good outweighing the bad" or any other reasoning put forth. I don't blame them for having that fear, but I think the BS that enters R usually has well underestimated how much psychic harm has been done to them; how deep the hurt is inside them, how irreparable it is. And, frankly, how false/ingenuine was the love that the WS held for them in the first place.


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## ianos (Jun 21, 2013)

Without wishing to offend anyone,most of the people before the cheating happening they will tell you that cheating is a deal breaker.
Once the cheating has happened people take other things in consideration-that shouldn't be taken-fear of being alone, codependency, children, money etc and often decide to stay in the relationship for one or more than one of those reasons even when they know they deserve better. They would rather be in a relationship that is dead and buried than moving on because they fear being alone and have no one in their life. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't".That's not forgiveness is weakness and indulgence sadly enough it happens most of the times.
So they pretend they believe their ridiculous excuses like (it was a mistake) pretend they forgive them and prefer to live in uncertainty whether he\she do it again or not.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

It's a mistaken, fcked up choice, which they KNOW will fck with your head for the rest of your life (if you care for your SO). And that's the biggest bite they can take out of you, in the intimacy and vulnerability of a relationship.


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## Struggling4ever (Jan 9, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> When I took my marriage vows - the standard Christian vows - I did for example commit to strengthen/uphold the marriage "in sickness and in health" and under other tough circumstances. But I did NOT swear to uphold the marriage in the aftermath of sexual infidelity. I.e. adultry is not just another of life's up and downs, it is NOT just another on a list of slights or insults attribuatble to both partners. It is a violation of the central tenet of the marriage, cutting away in one fell swoop the bond of intimacy that in many cases had taken years to build. We kid ourselves to look at it in any other way.
> 
> and it is seldom an act that the BS "contributed" to, because it is usually quite disproportionate to anything that the BS had ever done to the WS. i.e. a cannon in response to a paper cut, a sword in response to a frown, a cruel act of betrayal in response to "not making spouse feel loved" etc.
> 
> It seems to me that staying with the WS has more to do with the BS' fear of the future than "the good outweighing the bad" or any other reasoning put forth. I don't blame them for having that fear, but I think the BS that enters R usually has well underestimated how much psychic harm has been done to them; how deep the hurt is inside them, how irreparable it is. And, frankly, how false/ingenuine was the love that the WS held for them in the first place.


All very true in my opinion! Even though I am no longer a practicing Catholic - I believe Adultery is one of the only ways they accept divorce because the "bonds of marriage" are broken..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Why? Because I love her and only her.

I know if I'd left her any other relationship would only have been a sort of ersatz love. Not the real thing.


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## BoooBooo (Jul 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Why? Because I love her and only her.
> 
> I know if I'd left her any other relationship would only have been a sort of ersatz love. Not the real thing.


Despite finding out H is texting OW again after 18months, I am torn whether to stay or go because of this reason alone. 

I love him and only him and tears me when I think we will part.


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## alone24 (Jan 15, 2013)

My wife cheated on me before we married. She told me 3 1/2 years later, after we married and our son was 3 months old. I am only staying for my son, absolutely no other reason. My wife has shown no remorse and no understanding of the pain she has caused, but even if she had I still would have divorced and never spoken to her again were it not for my son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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