# Should we as men accept materialism?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Many women have accepted that men are visual creatures, and at the same time while women are objectified sexually, men are objectified financially. Should we as men, accept a woman who wouldn't give you the time of day unless you drive a nice car and earn over 6 figures?

I'm extremely lucky to have found someone who has proven to me money doesn't mean sh-t to her but she always has money to fall back on so never felt the need to be materialistic. She used to be a bit extravagant but has proven she can live within her means and save over the years. Due to her quality and the rarity of it in my city my wife has managed to zero out all other competition - women here are all about the $$$. Good thing I guess, but what if she decides to call it quits? I'm practically fked, and would have to dig for years to find another diamond in a pile of fake diamonds.

I'm trying not to put her on a pedestal but it's difficult when she has no competition and continues to prove to me that she really wants us to remain together. My mates have conflicting opinions, some have become so entrenched in the Sydney lifestyle that money is all they think about and have pretty much accepted that they can't expect to find and keep a woman unless they have a 6 figure salary, so they lie and refuse to commit, and always having spares since once one of their gfs decide they aren't worth the investment of time due to 'inability to provide' earning less than 6 figures, they can just go "oh ok, get lost" and move on to their other ones. 

Other mates were lucky, mostly the Anglo crowd, and they despise the materialism of the city, but they; like me, are blessed with finding someone who actually loves us for who we are, what if we suddenly lose that?

It makes me wonder if we as men should accept materialism or not.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Many women have accepted that men are visual creatures, and at the same time while women are objectified sexually, men are objectified financially. Should we as men, accept a woman who wouldn't give you the time of day unless you drive a nice car and earn over 6 figures?


I don't know many women like that, in fact none personally.
i really don't think that men are objectified in the same way, or that material objectification is as prolific as sexual objectification.

I know many couples who have been together through some very hard times, have been very poor together, but stayed together because the woman loved the man. 




> It makes me wonder if we as men should accept materialism or not.


No, I don't think anyone should. Admittedly I prefer my man to be the bread winner, I have been with men before that were not, and it wasn't the lack of funds that broke us up. I ended things for various reasons.

I prefer a traditional relationship for me, and I don't think it makes me materialistic as I'm willing to save and sacrifice where necessary (and still work at this point in time). 

I do love some nice things- don't get me wrong, but many things I see as a waste of money and ridiculously indulgent. 

If people surround themselves with materialistic people, they probably need new friends.


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't understand the term materialism unless it is at the extremes honestly.

Money means a lot to me so why shouldn't it to a woman? Is there anyone who doesn't want to earn more? Funny then that everyone complains about not earning "enough" and is always envious of those who do.

I expect the intent of the original post was to make some sort of statement about "gold diggers". But here is the thing... Unless you're a multimillionaire that's not really an issue and if you somehow are, then you know exactly what you're doing when you marry the 22 year old at 50.

Lots of guys I know call their ex wives "gold diggers" because they expect child support and alimony after being cheated on and leaving.

Are there women who only target an easier life? Sure. But I think most men know that this is what they're bringing to the relationship 

I make decent enough money that some women (and most democrats... :rofl would potentially say "you're rich!" (Wrongly I might add)

If I were single, and managed to hook a woman who physically I have *no business* being near, but who has a kid, a crap job and debt, I'd have to be pretty delusional to not "get" that money and survival are her prime motivators. 

You reap what you sow.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't know many women like that, in fact none personally.
> i really don't think that men are objectified in the same way, or that material objectification is as prolific as sexual objectification.


Boy, you really don't want the blame on your gender about anything, do you? Whatever, believe what you want.

On the topic, OP, no, men shouldn't accept materialism. That being said money is usually a symbol for status, which is an important quality for a man on the sexual market. Meaning you will be able to snag more tail in bars, clubs etc. But is it worth slaving over money just to have a little more recreational sex? No.

Usually enough money to get by and then some will work pretty well on the marriage front.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea...I guess generally speaking women are like this? maybe? My girl friends are financially secure in their own right. Of course the man should be equally yoked. I won't be supporting anyone...nor do I want someone to support me. it's a mutual support.

I've been on my own since 21. Financially independent since 23 (mom was helping while in college). So...I don't know what you speak of. Sure, my men have always been financially stable, but I couldn't care less about cars.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Littledeer



> I don't know many women like that, in fact none personally.


Come to Sydney  It's infamous in Australia now lol
Kinda like CA in America I think



> i really don't think that men are objectified in the same way, or that material objectification is as prolific as sexual objectification.
> 
> I know many couples who have been together through some very hard times, have been very poor together, but stayed together because the woman loved the man.


Really? For me I don't see the difference.



> No, I don't think anyone should. Admittedly I prefer my man to be the bread winner, I have been with men before that were not, and it wasn't the lack of funds that broke us up. I ended things for various reasons.
> 
> I prefer a traditional relationship for me, and I don't think it makes me materialistic as I'm willing to save and sacrifice where necessary (and still work at this point in time).
> 
> ...


If my wife and I are to surround ourselves with only non-materialistic people our social connections will hit an all-time low lol

For me I believe that women do have to protect themselves from men who can't even support themselves financially but there's financial stability and then there's materialism.

@Quantmflux



> I don't understand the term materialism unless it is at the extremes honestly.


Well, I would consider the current standards of men that women expect for a committed relationship at least here in town rather extreme. It's rather ridicolous to tell you the truth. When I seperated from my wife I cased out other prospects and it didn't look very pretty. I'm still young, naturally flirty and very financially secure with my own business so I know I would have no trouble dating but finding someone who would love me for me, hmmm.



> Money means a lot to me so why shouldn't it to a woman? Is there anyone who doesn't want to earn more? Funny then that everyone complains about not earning "enough" and is always envious of those who do.
> 
> I expect the intent of the original post was to make some sort of statement about "gold diggers". But here is the thing... Unless you're a multimillionaire that's not really an issue and if you somehow are, then you know exactly what you're doing when you marry the 22 year old at 50.
> 
> ...


Well this thread actually came from a discussion on the financial section in regards to double standards. I was thinking, hey, we want our women hot, so is it wrong for women to want their men rich? Should I lower my standards when it comes to materialism? If my wife and I do split and I'm forced to date again -> should I accept that my money is all that matters in relationships like some of my mates?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Boy, you really don't want the blame on your gender about anything, do you? Whatever, believe what you want.
> 
> On the topic, OP, no, men shouldn't accept materialism. That being said money is usually a symbol for status, which is an important quality for a man on the sexual market. Meaning you will be able to snag more tail in bars, clubs etc. But is it worth slaving over money just to have a little more recreational sex? No.
> 
> Usually enough money to get by and then some will work pretty well on the marriage front.


But then in the same light, many women accept that we men are visual creatures. This standard can be easily seen as shallow, so if they accept us for that, shouldn't we when it comes to accepting that money can still spell whether one is still in love or not in love with someone?



that_girl said:


> Yea...I guess generally speaking women are like this? maybe? My girl friends are financially secure in their own right. Of course the man should be equally yoked. I won't be supporting anyone...nor do I want someone to support me. it's a mutual support.
> 
> I've been on my own since 21. Financially independent since 23 (mom was helping while in college). So...I don't know what you speak of. Sure, my men have always been financially stable, but I couldn't care less about cars.


But you don't expect 100k+ yes? Lol


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Boy, you really don't want the blame on your gender about anything, do you? Whatever, believe what you want.
> 
> On the topic, OP, no, men shouldn't accept materialism. That being said money is usually a symbol for status, which is an important quality for a man on the sexual market. Meaning you will be able to snag more tail in bars, clubs etc. But is it worth slaving over money just to have a little more recreational sex? No.
> 
> Usually enough money to get by and then some will work pretty well on the marriage front.


Honestly no one does this. No one can. As a man you choose your career based on what you are good at and what you like. If what you are good at is lucrative, and you are *really good at it* you'll make good money.

Any idiot that says to himself "I gotta make money so I can get me some pvssy!" had better be able to sing or play ball.

Men who are driven to make money are driven to do that for themselves. You're headed to med school, I believe. If you stick with that and do well, you'll be wealthy. That's all because of your own drive.

I always loved sports cars. I love them on a very pure level. I don't give a crap what people think of that. I also like nice homes and nice vacations. I've always busted my ass so I can do and buy those things. Women had zero to do with that.

If any woman in my life considers that part of the appeal then she is... Human. Sorry. People annoyed by that are quite frankly just pissed off that they don't make more. And I'd bet money that this type of guy, were he to hit lotto, would have a girlfriend 20 years younger in a week. Goes along with the mindset IMO

*Edit: just saw the OP reply. Ok, I do understand where you're coming from now that you frame it this way being I am from NYC.

I tell my single friends this all of the time. Some geographies are just "too competitive", IMO, to the point where the value system gets F'd up. You have to escape or cast a wider net.*

I have single female peers who complain that there are "no good guys", but when I probe, despite being highly successful career women, *level with their male peers*, they still have the legacy female notion that "the guy should make more"

Well.... That's insane. As your salary climbs, the "makes more" pool shrinks dramatically. Just as I would never expect a woman to be at my salary level *as a dating requirement*, my female peers shouldn't. But many do. And that's ridiculous.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Boy, you really don't want the blame on your gender about anything, do you? Whatever, believe what you want.
> 
> .


The blame?
I will believe what I want.

If it's the same, why is enough to get by plus a little extra enough for marriage? If I'm objectifying men for their wallets why did I marry a man who was making next to nothing when we met, and divorce when he was making six figures?

And if it's the same why aren't married women on here all oohing and ahhing over Donald Trump? Or fantasizing about being married to other men with big fat wallets?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Edit: just saw the OP reply. Ok, I do understand where you're coming from now that you frame it this way being I am from NYC.
> 
> I tell my single friends this all of the time. Some geographies are just "too competitive", IMO, to the point where the value system gets F'd up. You have to escape or cast a wider net.


Hmmm... so I shouldn't accept it? =/

Well, it kinda sucks that my business isn't mobile lol so if my wife and I split I'm fked unless I hire a GM and then get my ass outta town but then that's just going to put a plug on my income.

I don't know though, it still feels a bit of a double standard when I'm picky with the looks of ladies but at the same time I refuse to be objectified by how much I earn =/


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Come to Sydney  It's infamous in Australia now lol
> Kinda like CA in America I think


This is such a huge generalization about a small group of women. Sure, some women may be materialistic and want money, but many don't. I live in Southern California, where the stereotype is that everyone is "rich", but that is just it, a stereotype. 

I am not materialistic in the slightest and would get mad at my husband if he spent a lot of money on me. My husband makes a little bit more money than I do, but I can support myself. 

There is a lot more to a person than how much money they make.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know CA, I only know Sydney! lol
Everything American is only what I hear


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I have single female peers who complain that there are "no good guys", but when I probe, despite being highly successful career women, *level with their male peers*, they still have the legacy female notion that "the guy should make more"
> 
> Well.... That's insane. As your salary climbs, the "makes more" pool shrinks dramatically. Just as I would never expect a woman to be at my salary level *as a dating requirement*, my female peers shouldn't. But many do. And that's ridiculous.


I know! It's hilarious!!! :rofl:


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... so I shouldn't accept it? =/
> 
> Well, it kinda sucks that my business isn't mobile lol so if my wife and I split I'm fked unless I hire a GM and then get my ass outta town but then that's just going to put a plug on my income.
> 
> I don't know though, it still feels a bit of a double standard when I'm picky with the looks of ladies but at the same time I refuse to be objectified by how much I earn =/


What I meant by that, to be blunt, is that a single guy living in NYC who is average looking, makes less than $250k a year, and wants to really find a mate needs to stop looking in the midtown hotspots and check out Brooklyn and queens


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lol, but what if he finds a girl sure, but then later on she dumps him for someone richer - it happens with my mates all the time hence that's why they never commit. It also makes me very wary and hesitant when dealing with my wife during our seperation; As I realised the consequences of losing her is much more severe then I had thought.

I have to be strong in my boundaries and lately she hasn't been cruel enough to test me recently. But if she does... I don't know


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I don't know CA, I only know Sydney! lol
> Everything American is only what I hear


I'm not just talking about the area of CA, but the whole topic. You are looking at the stereotype that women always want money and are materialistic, but it's a stereotype. Obviously not everyone fits into that stereotype, they just tend to get the most attention.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm not just talking about the area of CA, but the whole topic. You are looking at the stereotype that women always want money and are materialistic, but it's a stereotype. Obviously not everyone fits into that stereotype, they just tend to get the most attention.


Not all women no, I grew up a country boy and I know there is a difference. But since I'm stuck in the big city I have to make do 
And with what I've seen from past experiences as well as my mates' continual experiences... it seems materialism is accepted.

But for me, I'm abit of a romantic =/
Still, it makes me wonder if I TOO should accept materialism. :scratchhead:


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Lol, but what if he finds a girl sure, but then later on she dumps him for someone richer - it happens with my mates all the time hence that's why they never commit. It also makes me very wary and hesitant when dealing with my wife during our seperation; As I realised the consequences of losing her is much more severe then I had thought.
> 
> I have to be strong in my boundaries and lately she hasn't been cruel enough to test me recently. But if she does... I don't know


There are always risks. It's hard to take them when the stakes are high, I definitely get that. Even just being alone is preferable to emotional abuse though, IMO.

That said, I think the key is to learn how to dig deep quickly and expose who someone really is.

Like I have to say... I have some friends (wish I was from OZ or UK so I could use "mates"... It sounds much cooler ) who got FLEECED and were surprised. But in talking with them.., my thought was "did you REALLY not see this coming with that chick?!?"

I do think some areas make this harder. NYC is one. But SO CAL is too and look how great Anonymous is


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, my wife herself is a Sydney girl, and she's FAR from materialistic. But I reckon it's because she never had to be 

Still, I've met her friends (funny how all the rich folk live in specific suburbs lol), and they are like your mates -> want someone who can provide the same rich lifestyle that they had with their parents. So... yeah, I am very blessed, yet I feel cornered because if I lose her I don't think I can find someone else like her easily.

Heh as for not seeing it coming with gold diggers though it's just naivete. My mates have all been there and are unable to trust a woman to love them so they lie/cheat/refuse to commit.


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, my wife herself is a Sydney girl, and she's FAR from materialistic. But I reckon it's because she never had to be
> 
> Still, I've met her friends (funny how all the rich folk live in specific suburbs lol), and they are like your mates -> want someone who can provide the same rich lifestyle that they had with their parents. So... yeah, I am very blessed, yet I feel cornered because if I lose her I don't think I can find someone else like her easily.
> 
> Heh as for not seeing it coming with gold diggers though it's just naivete. My mates have all been there and are unable to trust a woman to love them so they lie/cheat/refuse to commit.


Well I'd say lie=bad, cheat=bad, refuse to commit=not so bad! It works great for Clooney! 

I can understand how past wrongs can put one on guard. My general motto though is to do no harm.

So if a guy is screwed over a time or three, or a woman is, and they say "no more binding ties for me!" there is nothing wrong with that as long as they're honest.

But I also think that in general, generalizations of the negative sort, tend to be very powerful, but not any more accurate (I'm generalizing about generalizations... There's a paradox there somewhere)

As for your personal situation, I'm no good there. I'm a much more ridiculous case of "work it out at any cost" than most just because of who I am so I'd be every bit as reluctant as you to walk, but for different reasons.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Agreed, in my youth I was always honest with my intentions, there was simply no need to lie to a woman as long as you can turn her on. No commitments, no BS, just sex. I had something rather different with my wife, she always was one I wanted to treat like more than an object, hell I even felt obligated to show her what a man can do for her either than just sex (still do...)

As for generalisations I know one shouldn't, but it does get increasingly difficult when the generalisations turn up true for many cases and when it's all you hear about. In the case of Sydney it's become accepted as part of the lifestyle, it's quite depressing.

Or hell maybe I'm just starting to appreciate my wife.


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

Well as shallow and vapid as Sydney may have become, I'm still not crossing it off my "places i must visit" bucket list! 

And of course for Americans, that takes quite a pile of cash. More incentive to keep working


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Since there are so many married guys who can not afford much and 70% of married women work, I don't think that most women are materialistic in that most do not expect to find a man who earns 6 figures or more. Most just marry the guy they love.

But there is a segment of the population that the men only go for the trophy wife types. And the trophy wife types go for the man they can snag who earns the most $$$$.


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Since there are so many married guys who can not afford much and 70% of married women work, I don't think that most women are materialistic in that most do not expect to find a man who earns 6 figures or more. Most just marry the guy they love.
> 
> But there is a segment of the population that the men only go for the trophy wife types. And the trophy wife types go for the man they can snag who earns the most $$$$.


To be fair though, I do have many mid-6 figure women peers who would rather die single than take a chance on someone they consider beneath their socioeconomic status.

And if they want sex, it's effortless for them to get it from any kind of guy they want, so that's not really an issue either.

Powerful career women *do* often slot into this category from what I've seen. Either single, or married above or within our peer group.

It seems weird to guys because for us that's really *never* a consideration.

I think this is part of the newness of the glass ceiling beginning to crack and will likely evolve out over time. Tricky for now though


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Quantmflux said:


> Well as shallow and vapid as Sydney may have become, I'm still not crossing it off my "places i must visit" bucket list!
> 
> And of course for Americans, that takes quite a pile of cash. More incentive to keep working


Lol well it's nice to visit, just not nice to live in.

@Elegirl



> Since there are so many married guys who can not afford much and 70% of married women work, I don't think that most women are materialistic in that most do not expect to find a man who earns 6 figures or more. Most just marry the guy they love.


I've met plenty of blokes who have married and divorced, some because their wives spent all their cash and milked them dry, others they were ditched. I still remember one bloke who told me when he courted his ex he lied about his car/income/job etc, and then when he revealed it to her and she got p-ssed, he explained that it was the only way he could get her to give him a chance and she accepted it... only to divorce him later heh.



> But there is a segment of the population that the men only go for the trophy wife types. And the trophy wife types go for the man they can snag who earns the most $$$$.


Erm... wifey is a bit of a trophy 
Haha she will SO KILL ME lol


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> The blame?
> I will believe what I want.
> 
> *"to" blame.*
> ...


I am not trying to threadjack, and I will not reply again regarding this.


----------



## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I am not trying to threadjack, and I will not reply again regarding this.


FWIW I don't think it's a thread jack at all (although its not my thread! Hahahaha)

Personally I absolutely love hearing how the dynamics are different in other cultures. It's one of the truly amazing things about the Internet, so I for one, hope that discussion thread continues :smthumbup:


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I am not trying to threadjack, and I will not reply again regarding this.


This is an open thread, you have to try harder to threadjack 

Besides I'm curious about that as well. Materialism is accepted in many cultures, they even have sayings for it as my in-law tells me all the time, "what is love when there is no bread on the table". For me, I consider that a fallacy; not starving is one thing, wishing for wealth beyond their dreams is another. But men follow suit, they accept it.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Quantmflux said:


> It seems weird to guys because for us that's really *never* a consideration.


Most men haven't yet understood "the marriage 2.0 concept" fully. Many strive and slave to provide. We think that our manliness comes from being a sole or the major provider. But is that really true? Or is it our insecurities talking? (thinking we won't be worthy of love if we don't make the most money, even if that means spending an unacceptable amount of time away from the family we are providing for or having not enough energy at the end of the day to enjoy time with that family) 

I think only being a SAHD is unacceptable. But only being a SAHM is just as unacceptable. If women want a man to bring a lot of money, they should be bringing just as much money to the table, too.

If a man chooses to be with a woman who will be with him for his money, he must do so at his own peril. When one accepts that he will be loved for being a big fish, one must accept there is always a bigger fish in the sea.


----------



## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I do not claim to understand how "most women" think (infact I struggle to know what my wife is thinking sometimes) but for myself I would not have felt right asking my wife to marry until I was able to take care of her and the family we planned.
Does that make me a victim of Materialism, I do not think so.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I've met plenty of blokes who have married and divorced, some because their wives spent all their cash and milked them dry, others they were ditched. I still remember one bloke who told me when he courted his ex he lied about his car/income/job etc, and then when he revealed it to her and she got p-ssed, he explained that it was the only way he could get her to give him a chance and she accepted it... only to divorce him later heh.


Funny how when some women divorce men they all ways claim she was a gold digger taking his money.

Probably discounting all she did in the marriage, or the fact that she now is raising his children alone etc.

I have known a few men who treated their wives terribly, but when she finally had enough and left it was because she was a gold digger.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I don't know many women like this, and would have thought that such a mindset would have disappeared with women's ability to earn enough money of their own.

Should men accept materialistic women who are only with them for what they can get out of them? Absolutely not!


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> > That is considering you've found an eligible, down-to-earth,realistic woman.
> 
> 
> Then again how is it that women objectify men's wallets as much as men objectify women?
> ...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> I stand by what I said, it's just not comparable.


Definitely not the case in Sydney 



> However most men and women do marry for love.


And the love comes from the ability to make $$$ it seems in Sydney in so many cases. And they wonder why theres an apparent 'man drought' locally, of course, with such ridicolous expectations who would go for them? lol (HUGE pool of single women in Sydney, yet my wife zeros out any competition... it's shocking)

Due to this, I FEAR that if the time comes again when my boundaries will be tested, I may falter due to the growing fear of losing her and having to settle for well... bleh. The lifestyle of the city is a rat race, it's different from other cities. It's unfortunate that my business isn't mobile and I don't have a degree. Even if my wife and I do split and she takes the house, I can't just up and go as I'm keeping the business. I don't have the luxury of being able to work anywhere unlike degreeholders.

I'm not as confident as I was during the early days of seperation that "meh, fk it, I have to enforce boundaries, if I lose her I lose her"... after looking around at my options though... it makes me say to myself "erm, despite her issues, wifey ain't materialistic, I won't find someone like that easily"

But if I can learn to accept materialism like many other men, maybe my options won't look so grim. But I dunno... :scratchhead:


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> But if I can learn to accept materialism like many other men, maybe my options won't look so grim. But I dunno... :scratchhead:


What could be grimmer, RD, than settling for a woman whose love for you is dependent on your bank balance? Compromising one's values is never a good idea...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

But it's not like I have a choice in the city if I lose my wife =/
I HATE fearing losing her because it makes me hesitate... Hell I even have mates even seriously thinking about importing women from other states/overseas. IMPORTING!!! Importing while there's already a TON of women here! lol

Besides, in many cultures this is accepted, "make money and you will find love" "don't make money and you won't have love" - like wife's mum's culture and other traditional cultures.

I dunno lol :scratchhead:

EDIT: From a different perspective, I've finally come to realise my wife's competitive advantage, which turns out to be a dealbreaker of mine. But to be realistic, this dealbreaker will make it VERY difficult to move on if I ever was to divorce. This city is also really annoying in that I'm also relatively stuck here thanks to work lol

So, women accepting men being the shallow visual creatures we are, shouldn't we accept them being shallow when it comes to our wallets? I dunno


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Besides, in many cultures this is accepted, "make money and you will find love" "don't make money and you won't have love" - like wife's mum's culture and other traditional cultures..


I could relate to that.. that kind of attitude is the norm here in my country also.

I must comment though, some women in the older generation in my country, they stick with their husbands through hard times. I knew of a couple which has been through ethnic clashes, economic crisis, mass riots, bankruptcies, etc, and still together, happily. They seemed to hold on their marriage vows very strongly.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, the older generation seems to take marriage alot more seriously, I'm only late 20s so my generation is a little more whacked it seems


----------



## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

RandomDude said:


> Many women have accepted that men are visual creatures, and at the same time while women are objectified sexually, men are objectified financially. Should we as men, accept a woman who wouldn't give you the time of day unless you drive a nice car and earn over 6 figures?
> 
> I'm extremely lucky to have found someone who has proven to me money doesn't mean sh-t to her but she always has money to fall back on so never felt the need to be materialistic. She used to be a bit extravagant but has proven she can live within her means and save over the years. Due to her quality and the rarity of it in my city my wife has managed to zero out all other competition - women here are all about the $$$. Good thing I guess, but what if she decides to call it quits? I'm practically fked, and would have to dig for years to find another diamond in a pile of fake diamonds.
> 
> ...


I don't see how people can live on under 6 figures in Sydney? The housing prices are insane. 

What about all the little bogan towns? Those people are pretty anti materialistic. Large percentage on the dole and a big chip on their shoulders with Tall Poppy syndrome.

Really where are all these materialistic Australians?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Tigger said:


> I don't see how people can live on under 6 figures in Sydney? The housing prices are insane.


Easy, both partners work. 
And don't expect to afford anything near the CBDs, my wife and I live in the outskirts for example and I've been sole provider for 4 years with no problems. Women in this town don't seem to be realistic. For my wife, she just never really had to give a sh-t so in a way she doesn't really count lol



> What about all the little bogan towns? Those people are pretty anti materialistic. Large percentage on the dole and a big chip on their shoulders with Tall Poppy syndrome.


I'm stuck here remember? I can't just teleport my business interstate if I was to divorce lol



> Really where are all these materialistic Australians?


All in Sydney it seems :rofl:
Other states do give us sh-t because of the rat race.


----------



## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

RandomDude said:


> Easy, both partners work.
> And don't expect to afford anything near the CBDs, my wife and I live in the outskirts for example and I've been sole provider for 4 years with no problems. Women in this town don't seem to be realistic. For my wife, she just never really had to give a sh-t so in a way she doesn't really count lol
> 
> 
> ...


I meant how do people live on less than 6 figures there?

There are no cheap anti materialistic bogan towns near sydney?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

They combine their incomes as I mentioned, and I'm not going to travel 4 hours to and fro work. Unless I can afford a private helicopter on top of demolishing my neighbour's house to make a helipad.

EDIT: Heh actually that's not a bad idea


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Materialism isn't just with women, it's equal with men too. There are many husbands in our neighborhood that "have" to have all their big toys. Several 4-wheelers, snowmobiles, boats, sports cars(corvettes,ect..).

It's not just women who are materialistic, it's men too.

Personally I like the simple life.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

But those men work for their well-earned rewards, and couldn't care less how much their partners earn yet at the same time women don't even give many men the time of day if he doesn't earn over a threshold. There's a difference 

A friend from Singapore also told me about this: 5 C's of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's how the city runs! Lol but it's so accepted!


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> But you don't expect 100k+ yes? Lol


I've been with a man who made 120K ....lived with him. Had a kid with him. He was a douche and a half.

My H made and makes ok money. I never feel like we go without. But i'm not high maintenance. Plus, I make my own money.


----------



## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> ...Many women have accepted that men are visual creatures, and at the same time while women are objectified sexually, men are objectified financially. Should we as men, accept a woman who wouldn't give you the time of day unless you drive a nice car and earn over 6 figures?
> ...


We can speculate on generalizations and extrapolate from anecdote and worry about the 'reality' of what we see on tv and in the media. You are putting up a hypothetical and my first reaction is to wonder at the accuracy or importance of your suppositions.

I, personally - don't know anyone like either of these. Guys that objectify their wives sexually - nor women that objectify their husbands financially.

Now - the problem starts when the relationship goes south. Then.. the guys might claim that she only sees him 'as a paycheck' and the woman sees him as a troglodyte that only wants sex...or whatever - and both are vocal and rigeously indignant and wronged.... yeah yeah.

Honestly - I really believe this... as people 'grow up', mature... this perception of objectification is simply not an issue for reasonably well adjusted people. At least not in the narrow world in which I live, I suppose.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I think the difficulty is that accepting men as visual creatures and thus the expectations they have about women's appearance might in and of itself lead to materialism in those self-same women. 

- If I'm expected to dress nice to be attractive, how do I do so without money?

- If I'm expected to maintain a certain hairdo/hair dye/get my brows waxed, again those things cost money. 

- Gym memberships to maintain my weight cost money. 

So - if you have a certain level of expectation about what your woman likes like and dresses like, does that in and of itself potentially fuel at least some portion of that materialism? It's at least a point to ponder. 

Now that being said, I live in a two bedroom apartment with four people, and drive a ten year old car. My husband certainly doesn't make 6 figures, and I never went out searching for a man with those qualifies. Which is a point of disappointment for family members who make sure to mention things like "I thought you would do better." (My sister snagged a boyfriend with a rich family, and she's praised for it, even though he has a drug problem as is a total doof.)


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> But there is a segment of the population that the men only go for the trophy wife types. And the trophy wife types go for the man they can snag who earns the most $$$$.


Exactly! It's just a matter of deciding priorities. If you want a trophy wife, you have to accept that she is not going to love you for you any more than you love her for her.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Quantmflux said:


> To be fair though, I do have many mid-6 figure women peers who would rather die single than take a chance on someone they consider beneath their socioeconomic status.
> 
> ...
> 
> It seems weird to guys because for us that's really *never* a consideration.


It's not weird at all. These women are able to look after themselves financially, emotionally and sexually, so they choose to remain single rather than marry. Millions of guys make the same decision every day. They even revel in it.


----------



## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> ...Now that being said, I live in a two bedroom apartment with four people, and drive a ten year old car. My husband certainly doesn't make 6 figures, and I never went out searching for a man with those qualifies. Which is a point of disappointment for family members who make sure to mention things like "I thought you would do better." (My sister snagged a boyfriend with a rich family, and she's praised for it, even though he has a drug problem as is a total doof.)


I believe this is common VERY common mistake. Rich people are not happier, they just arent. Begond basic necessities like shelter and food and the relative feedom of worry of keeping the heat on, wealth it is not a happiness predictor. Rich people are just as miserable.

Its so easy to believe if you had more money - your problems would melt away. The fact is - you trade your problems in for new ones and many believe they are NO better off

I make good 6 figures, I am somewhat ashamed to say.. and money changes nothing. (it also doesnt go very far..at all) There are rich idiots and poor idiots. There are poor saints and rich ones. If you have relationship problems when you are poor - you are going to have them when you hit the lottery - in fact it may magnify your problems.

Secret Fears of the Super-Rich - Graeme Wood - The Atlantic

http://www.earth.columbia.edu/sitefiles/file/Sachs Writing/2012/World Happiness Report.pdf


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> But it's not like I have a choice in the city if I lose my wife =/
> I HATE fearing losing her because it makes me hesitate... Hell I even have mates even seriously thinking about importing women from other states/overseas. IMPORTING!!! Importing while there's already a TON of women here! lol
> 
> Besides, in many cultures this is accepted, "make money and you will find love" "don't make money and you won't have love" - like wife's mum's culture and other traditional cultures.
> ...


RD, I can quite see that there are still cultures where a healthy bank balance is a consideration when it comes to relationships. I'm much older than you, and I was raised in a society like that. Whenever I had a new date I remember the first question from friends was "What does he do for a living?" 

I didn't think that way, and never have, and neither do a lot of woman. You just have to be discerning when it comes to finding a mate, and keep on looking until you find a woman who is interested in you for who you are.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Now that being said, I live in a two bedroom apartment with four people, and drive a ten year old car. My husband certainly doesn't make 6 figures, and I never went out searching for a man with those qualifies. Which is a point of disappointment for family members who make sure to mention things like "I thought you would do better." (My sister snagged a boyfriend with a rich family, and she's praised for it, even though he has a drug problem as is a total doof.)


Heh
My wife and I were a couple when I was merely working a part-time job and had zero plans for a career. To this day I have not passed high school, hell I don't even have a career. My wife didn't care, I did however, and after 4 years of hard work (first 2 years were very difficult) I rose to ownership and expanded my business to achieve the financial stability that I have today.



> I make 6 figures, I am somewhat ashamed to say.. and money changes nothing.


Well... I don't know about that though, I don't exactly have to work 84 hours a week no more so it has changed something


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cosmos said:


> RD, I can quite see that there are still cultures where a healthy bank balance is a consideration when it comes to relationships. I'm much older than you, and I was raised in a society like that. Whenever I had a new date I remember the first question from friends was "What does he do for a living?"
> 
> I didn't think that way, and never have, and neither do a lot of woman. You just have to be discerning when it comes to finding a mate, and keep on looking until you find a woman who is interested in you for who you are.


Well... it looks like I will have to get my butt out of Sydney if I was to divorce my wife and want to keep my standards of non-materialism =/ 
But I don't really have the mobility having no degree and self-employed. It's funny really...

Last year when my wife and I seperated I just didn't care about anything, I just wanted all of it to end. Now being forced to examine all my options I've realised I don't really have much choice but to stay with my wife if I want love.

It's a worry because lets say we move back in together and nothing changes - she remains just as demanding with the sex and continues to make my life a living hell whenever I don't put out up to her expectations. Would I be ready to say "no"? Right now...
I don't know =/

Even after she signed the postnup. Hell ESPECIALLY since she signed the postnup, she's a rare breed.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

RD, how is your W's counseling going? You guys haven't decided yet that the marriage is actually over, have you?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We're good except for her draining my energy last night (my fault)

I'm more worried about whether if she brings up the D word again would I be able to say "oh yeah? bring it on" like I did last year?
I'm just trying not to put my wife on a pedestal but I just wish women like her aren't so rare in town to the point I really have no options if she divorces me. I realised my plan B sucks!

It seems I would have to make a choice to either stay loveless or lower my standards to accommodate the women here in town. I really don't know, you guys keep saying there's women who don't care about money and I know because I married one and I grew up in other towns where the rat race culture isn't there.

But I can't move! =/
Hmmm... unless I import them to Sydney like some of my mates. Sad really
Then again... maybe after a year or two they might grow to BECOME materialistic thanks to this stupid city culture so I'm fked either way lol


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, the older generation seems to take marriage alot more seriously, I'm only late 20s so my generation is a little more whacked it seems


You're much younger than me then   

But, honestly, even _my_ generation were already so infested with materialism.. Society determines a man's worth not by his personality, but by how much money he make. Even nice, decent men, if they make very little money, are not considered "a catch". An honest, humble clerk with little salary will get much less respect from the society than an arrogant rich son of a millionaire. A girl dumped her poorer boyfriend for another boyfriend with higher social status, were not considered "shallow", but "smart".. (maybe this haven't changed even today  )

So very different with our grandfathers's/grandmothers's generation, where they value a person's personality and morals more than how big his/her bank account is..


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Come to think of it, speaking of other cultures. 

I also find it interesting during my teens here in Australia when we were all young and stupid falling in love and such, the culture is different from what my parents seemed to have went through; For my mum at least when she was young the hottest guy was the bloke with the best grades believe it or not. Yup, schoolgrades is a standard at that young an age in that culture even! Over here in Australia if you study hard to get a good paying job in the future you're a bookworm and geek! :rofl: 

Oh how the tables turn once you reach adulthood!!! 
Hell I dunno, it's funny how one dealbreaker is acceptable in one culture and completely unacceptable in another.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well... it looks like I will have to get my butt out of Sydney if I was to divorce my wife and want to keep my standards of non-materialism =/


This sounds a whole lot like a lot of the immature, shallow men in my area. They all want the trophy wife who looks like Barbie and then get upset when she spends a lot of money to keep up her image(spending money for a gym membership, manicures/pedicures, brand name clothes and accessories, waxing, facials and massages, and so on). 

There are many naturally beautiful women who aren't materialistic(in Sydney, just as there are in my area), but you have to know what to look for. I highly doubt you or your friends ever go for those women because all they complain about are the materialistic ones. Well, that's their own fault for going for the shallow women when there are many great ones who are not materialistic. It just depends on what your value most. 



RandomDude said:


> Last year when my wife and I separated I just didn't care about anything, I just wanted all of it to end. Now being forced to examine all my options I've realized I don't really have much choice but to stay with my wife if I want love.


RD, that is not "love", that is just staying because you are playing it safe and you think she is your only option.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ha! Considering I've met a few of their dates and seen pics of their ex gfs/ ex wives it sure doesn't look like they go for the trophies lol. If anyone amongst us has a trophy wife it's me - and wifey ain't materialistic either  (She will KILL me for calling her that though lol)

They are envious to say the least, and it's not like folks here including myself can't acknowledge the existence the few great women here in Sydney but they are taken in a flash and those who have non-materialist women are holding onto them for dear life, like me at present it seems after releasing what I truly do have. This is also why my mates could not understand the problems I had with my wife.

They just saw me as throwing away someone that I may not find ever again; someone who truly loves you for who you are, and doesn't give a rat's ass about money. After realising the reality, I guess I'm coming to see things from their perspective.

There's men from 20s to 50s all very disillusioned with Sydney women to the point it seems folks come here to work and build capital before moving on, or they import (which I find ironic considering the 'man drought' and large pool of single women), or continue lying/cheating/refusing to commit but that's just not for me. The problem for me is that Sydney is the money making town and my business is milking out the cash for me so I can't exactly move.

The average wage is around 70k a year, and especially those who earn 6 figures are taxed heavily - Australia has one of the highest income tax rates in the world. In the end most people don't really earn much whether they are professional or executive. Business owners like myself are at an advantage when it comes to taxes and probably the one of the big reasons we stay afloat. However, it's extremely risky to start afresh in town, one has to expect to run at a loss for 2 years before they can consider their business established. I got lucky, I took OVER an established business. Still a 2 yr survival period because they sold at a hefty price but after 4 years with numerous renovations and expansions it's now generating consistent income for both of us.

Despite all that, I'll ALWAYS be a humble poor man at heart. I never grew up rich, and my wife is the only one who has proven worthy (even if she's a spoiled princess who never needed money in her life - the irony! lol this is one post I'm definitely not printing out for her to read haha). 

Sure I haven't exactly been looking nor am I really in a position to either than browsing dating sites/seeing how my single friends are doing to get a general idea. My wife will have my head obviously, besides I reckon she likes having zero emotional competition. She's still very possessive but since the postnup I know it's not because I'm successful that she sticks with me.

On topic though I'm still unsure, materialism is accepted in certain cultures perhaps some of us need to let go of our romantic views and be realistic?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh just remembered a few convos I had with my wife about this actually. In fact it was for a different issue; her possessiveness - aka she has a habit of being rude/aggressive to any women who she feels threatened by which can be rather annoying.

Apparently some of her friends told her something like "he has his own business in Sydney and you don't have to work?! OMG don't trust him! Guys like that are this and that, always check his phone, always check his messages! Don't let him be alone with any woman" Yadda yadda yadda. Funny, because my wife was complaining about something else not money yet money enters the equation anyway like WTF

Funny how they acknowledge the power of money, I reckon women are very aware of the materialism but are materialist anyway because there are alot of men who accepted it as part of life especially amongst the immigrant population. Me... maybe I need to be realistic like them no? I don't know.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Also found this:
How Women Choose The Men They Date - AskMen

Somethings even I found too broad a generalisation but other things are true:



> If you want to know how women really choose men, don't bother asking a woman.


LOL! 



> If you ask any woman what she's looking for in a man, she'll come out with a long list of ennobling qualities: a sense of humor; a guy who's nice to her and treats her well; good values; a strong moral character, etc.
> Uh huh. Right. And she'll leave footprints all over Mr. Sense of Humor as she scrambles to be first in line when an arrogant, philandering, single doctor roars up in his Ferrari. Woman, please


This is a reality, if it wasn't I would have exchanged all my cash to $100 notes, investing in stylish watches and (hehe) borrowing my mate's Skyline in my youth lol. Sure, my wife being the non-materialist woman that she is, would have just roll her eyes at me, but she's one of a kind 

And I played a different game with her 



> Women marry up, not down. A man will marry a woman who scrubs the floor at a slaughterhouse if she's nice and pretty enough


Fact, except my wife. I can see it with all her friends and they are actually quite decent women, but they like the majority - marry up not down.



> But if male-female relationships are going to change for the better, it's entirely up to us to enforce the change. If we stop paying for women, then women will be forced to choose us for qualities other than the size of our wallets.


Awww, so there goes this thread in regards to ACCEPTING materialism =/

But in a similar note, we men choose our wives for other qualities other than their personality as well; their weight/their looks/hotness factor etc etc. We're visual creatures and women accept that.

Yet we can't accept that they just want to feel secure financially in the future? I don't know! Discuss!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Quantmflux said:


> To be fair though, I do have many mid-6 figure women peers who would rather die single than take a chance on someone they consider beneath their socioeconomic status.


They can set whatever criteria they want in a man to marry. This might actually be a very wise thing for a woman to be concerned about because statistically a man is 50% more likely to cheat on his wife if she earns more than he does. Most men do not handle their wife earning more very well. 
I know a lot of men who would not even consider marrying a woman who does not earn an income close to what he earns. These guys also want a wife with a lot of assets as well.



Quantmflux said:


> Powerful career women *do* often slot into this category from what I've seen. Either single, or married above or within our peer group.
> 
> It seems weird to guys because for us that's really *never* a consideration.


That’s not true at all. A lot of men will not marry anyone outside of their social/economic peer group. They want a wife whose education is close to their own education level and so forth.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I've met plenty of blokes who have married and divorced, some because their wives spent all their cash and milked them dry, others they were ditched.


This does not only happen to men. Myself and several women I know have had this happen to them. Men do this as well. They take everything she has and then leave. As our society changes and more and more women have a good income and assets this will happen to more and more women.



RandomDude said:


> I still remember one bloke who told me when he courted his ex he lied about his car/income/job etc, and then when he revealed it to her and she got p-ssed, he explained that it was the only way he could get her to give him a chance and she accepted it... only to divorce him later heh.


So why did she divorce him? Maybe he was just a liar. If a dated a man who told his huge a lie I would not marry him at all. It’s the lying, not the money.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> This might actually be a very wise thing for a woman to be concerned about because statistically a man is 50% more likely to cheat on his wife if she earns more than he does


WHAT?! =/

How does that work? :scratchhead:


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Also found this:
> How Women Choose The Men They Date - AskMen
> 
> Somethings even I found too broad a generalisation but other things are true:
> ...


Traditionally women had not way to earn their own living. They could not aspire to a career field. The only thing they were allowed to do is get married, be a housekeeper or a prostitute.

So marrying a man who was well off and who they could love as well was the goal. Marring a well off man meant that her children would be well taken care of, would get an education and have good opportunities. It meant that the wife would also be well taken care of, get medical care, etc. These were things that a woman could not provide for herself or her children in any other way. 

A lot of women today are still raised with this mind set. Many do not want careers. All they want is to be married, have children and a good live. They pick a man with money for exactly the same reason women in the past did. I see nothing wrong with this.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> This does not only happen to men. Myself and several women I know have had this happen to them. Men do this as well. They take everything she has and then leave. As our society changes and more and more women have a good income and assets this will happen to more and more women.


That is true, hell sometimes I wish we can just export all these Sydney women and import women from other states lol... oh wait, that's right, we're already doing that, now it's a 'man drought' with too many women and not enough men :rofl:

Yet at the same time, considering women here consider "a good guy" has to have 6 figures/earn more than her... then it can be expected.



> So why did she divorce him? Maybe he was just a liar. If a dated a man who told his huge a lie I would not marry him at all. It’s the lying, not the money.


Apparently it was because he could not advance in his career throughout his marriage hence the financial stagnation which his wife felt was not good enough so she moved on to greener pastures. Chances are though, to be fair, he probably made way too many empty promises. Still, it sure looks like materialism as well considering it's still $$$ problems.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> WHAT?! =/
> 
> How does that work? :scratchhead:


Easy, men who marry women who earn more than they do are much more likely to cheat than men who earn more than their wives. 


What do you mean how does that work?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Traditionally women had not way to earn their own living. They could not aspire to a career field. The only thing they were allowed to do is get married, be a housekeeper or a prostitute.
> 
> So marrying a man who was well off and who they could love as well was the goal. Marring a well off man meant that her children would be well taken care of, would get an education and have good opportunities. It meant that the wife would also be well taken care of, get medical care, etc. These were things that a woman could not provide for herself or her children in any other way.
> 
> A lot of women today are still raised with this mind set. Many do not want careers. All they want is to be married, have children and a good live. They pick a man with money for exactly the same reason women in the past did. I see nothing wrong with this.


My wife is strange, she's a simple woman in that she just wants to be married, have children, and have a good life with someone who loves her and she never had to worry about money in the equation.

Hell if I divorce, maybe I should just stick to rich girls like her but then again most like her friends are rather cautious and have to be materialistic to protect themselves perhaps. My wife has tested me in the past by offering to help me financially but I rejected her each time the same way I rejected her parents helping us when we got married. Guess I proved myself to her same way she proved herself to me.

In fact, if my wife had secretly accepted funds from her family I would have called it quits with her - I was VERY vengeful and hateful towards her family at that point I wanted to spit on their judgements of me. Which I succeeded lol

There's no way in hell that either of us could have predicted that I would be presented with an opportunity to take over an established business, that and her signing the postnup... I woke up one morning and realised I have a woman here who loves me for me. Hard to resist spoiling/cherishing her at this point and hell now more than ever I want her to move back in!

Which is BAD considering our circumstances! Darn it!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> My wife is strange, she's a simple woman in that she just wants to be married, have children, and have a good life with someone who loves her and she never had to worry about money in the equation.
> 
> Hell if I divorce, maybe I should just stick to rich girls like her but then again most like her friends are rather cautious and have to be materialistic to protect themselves perhaps. My wife has tested me in the past by offering to help me financially but I rejected her each time the same way I rejected her in laws helping us when we got married. Guess I proved myself to her same way she proved herself to me.
> 
> ...


I'm waiting for the day the two of you move back in together. I'll have a toast for you both when that happens. You are both lucky and I hope you both realize that.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Easy, men who marry women who earn more than they do are much more likely to cheat than men who earn more than their wives.
> 
> What do you mean how does that work?


I'm a man and I don't see the logic why men would cheat more if their wives earn more than them. I wonder if the statistics are correct and if they are truly measuring and attributing the results of the study correctly



> I'm waiting for the day the two of you move back in together. I'll have a toast for you both when that happens. You are both lucky and I hope you both realize that.


IF it happens =/
Is wifey really lucky? According to her friends she is, they are all jealous of her (of course, it's the $$$! Bah! My wife isn't that one-dimensional I'm afraid... no, she's one-dimensional when it comes to sex instead!!! lol)
Sometimes I wonder if she will keep loving me if I lost a leg or an arm or even - my willy... but hell I can't test that really can I?

Am I really lucky? HELL YES! I just don't let her know too much 
Lest she starts floating towards the sky and thinks she can do whatever she wants -.-


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Women marry up, not down.


This is from last year:



> An April report by the Center for American Progress looked at U.S. women who earn as much or more than their husbands and found that 34% of wives in families with incomes in the top 20% are the breadwinners, whereas 70% of those in the bottom 20% are. Roughly half of wives are the breadwinners in middle-income families.


So - marrying up is indeed, if anything generally an upper class phenomenon. Whereas in poorer families, women are the primary earner. So - where are indeed, all these women who marry only for money? The ones who had money to begin with, or who grew used to having it. 

When the Wife Is the Breadwinner - WSJ.com

And when the woman earns more money, as was pointed out, it causes tension, this article doesn't specifically mention cheating, but mentions problems. So - women are supposed to be independent, and not want your money, as long as that doesn't mean making more than you.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm not in America 

And it's not like folks here stay single forever; my mates are not just single but divorced. And it looks like this phenomenom of women being dissatisfied with men with an inferior earning power is common here in Australia as well.

Like hey, I don't want to be like my mates who marry then have their wives walk out because he wasn't earning as much as Guy B or C. My wife seems to be immune to this phenomenom for some reason though, probably because her priorities are warped in a different way; sex.

Society does seem to be molded to accommodate this; many men feel threatened by a woman who earns more and are also drilled into them that money = everything. I've always been a romantic and in a way it also makes me rather different from my mates - also because my wife showed me non-material love is possible.

But perhaps materialism is also a part of love? Love for one's ability to provide? lol
I dunno, I still see that women do accept being targets of men's visual attraction, as well as men accept being targets of a woman's material attraction here in Sydney... but me, I stubbornly refuse.

Probably because I spent 23 years of my life poor and struggling and only 4-5 years "rich" and my wife spent 30 years rich thus far.

Yet you guys are saying it's a good thing?


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Materialism is definately a regional thing with the big cities being the most likely place you'll find this attitude. I also think certain cultures are more materialistic as well but that's another story..

To the OP. If your wife always had money and isn't overtly materialistic I think you've hit the jackpot. She could have easily hooked up with a richer guy, but she picked you when you were broke. It doesn't get any better then that. 

I think there's a double standard with today's career women. It seems OK for them to have higher standards that include income level, education and social status, but when a man says he requires all that he gets attacked for being shallow or controlling.

Good Luck


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not easily really, she had a past that alot of guys couldn't accept it seems, that's one of my competitive advantages I guess. It seems like her strongest advantage is her non-materialism. Looks like we're both stuck. Unless of course I find another woman who is non-materialistic and she finds another man who cherishes her and doesn't feel threatened by her past. 

Then of course we have our sexual chemistry, not easily replaced. Maybe I should stop fearing a divorce, especially when we're still going good, and the fact that we do seem made for each other somehow... yet I want to be prepared for anything.



> I think there's a double standard with today's career women. It seems OK for them to have higher standards that include income level, education and social status, but when a man says he requires all that he gets attacked for being shallow or controlling.


True, it's rather lame really. Just makes me appreciate my wife so much more to the point of putting her on a pedestal nowadays.
I never realised her worth until I lost her it seems.


----------



## lonestar79 (Dec 26, 2012)

I think the matter is being overcomplicated here. It is quite simple.

Females instinctively want a man to be able to provide to them because females will be very vulnerable during pregnancy and raising kids. This is NOT a conscious choice that females make, they are programmed this way. They feel this way. This is instinct. Nature taking it's course.

Males, on the other hand, instinctively want a female with good child bearing ability (young) and good genes. That's why males are obsessed with looks while females are more interested in things that sound "materialistic"... Raising kids require "materials"...

Simple as that. Get over it. Move on.


----------



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Although I handle the finances, my wife is the fiscally conservative one in our relationship. She does not care about material things. She often shops at Goodwill and she shops the sales. It is very rare that she buys clothing at full price. She does not care about the car she drives as long as it is dependable. She is not the least bit materialistic.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have dumped men before. NEVER was it for more money. hahaha no.

It was because they were douches.


----------



## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I've never been out with anyone who paid for everything and bought me loads of stuff. What's it like?

Ps I don't care about the price of your car, but please have some taste when purchasing


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> Although I handle the finances, my wife is the fiscally conservative one in our relationship. She does not care about material things. She often shops at Goodwill and she shops the sales. It is very rare that she buys clothing at full price. She does not care about the car she drives as long as it is dependable. She is not the least bit materialistic.


Are there women like that any more ?


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> I've never been out with anyone who paid for everything and bought me loads of stuff. What's it like?


I found it kind of smothering but then again I'm not materialistic and not a gift person. I'm also fiercely independent. I've dated plenty of guys with money who whined, dined and bought me gifts. I dumped them and married a broke cop. Lol

Men with money like to use it to control. This was my experience anyway. They thought I could be bought and well obviously I cannot.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

romantic_guy said:


> Although I handle the finances, my wife is the fiscally conservative one in our relationship. She does not care about material things. She often shops at Goodwill and she shops the sales. It is very rare that she buys clothing at full price. She does not care about the car she drives as long as it is dependable. She is not the least bit materialistic.


Romantic Guy...your wife sounds just like *ME* ....except he lets me handle all the finances.... I pay every bill/ credit card... call the banks for CD rates...all of it... ..I've never bounced a check, pay every credit bill in full every month - I like making $$ off of them! 

I never cared about how much a man made...I looked at his character & how he treated me above all.... but it was imperative...since I dreamed of a Family/ security / smooth running.... that he could :

*1. *Hold a steady full time Job...
*2.* Was a dependable respected employee -with favor (good references for down the road)
*3*. That he could live within his means & still save $$ on the side for the future /our dreams.. with my saving along with him (our dream was buying a house in the country, a little land).... 

He knows I didn't marry him for his $$.... as he worked in a Grocery Store when we got hitched. I even made more than him at the time. We've done amazingly well on his Blue collar income (better job came after 7 yrs in)... we've been debt free for yrs now. Our cars are older and this is a blessing - as he can fix them. No desire for new. 

"Consignment shops" are great for buying for our larger family... Mall shopping - probably only do it about 3 times a year....when we go .... it's a special treat....the little one gets all excited to ride the elevator. That's just a piece of our life and we are very happy...and content. 

And I never skimp on our Family & Romantic Vacations, anything we want to do... we have the $$ for it...we make it happen.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Blue collar definitely can become successful, in Australia, Sydney especially, builders and painters make a fortune. Like hell they get contracted for jobs as high paying as 200k over a few months. Compared my industry in food and beverage where I only get 15-20k per event, roughly 1 or 2 a week consistently. And that's on a good run, other times it's merely a small function it's only a few K 

Thankfully nowadays though these events come to me and I don't have to chase them down and beat competitors compared to a few years ago, same with builders except they earn so much more than me.


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

You as a man can do whatever you want. There is no need to be validated by asklng the crowd to follow you. 

My wife isnt a gold digger. Most arent. You arent comprehending reality. 

Tarring a whole gender with the same brush is absurd and in my view is a heavily sheltered outlook.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Totally agree. 



QUOTE=Wiltshireman;1442354]I do not claim to understand how "most women" think (infact I struggle to know what my wife is thinking sometimes) but for myself I would not have felt right asking my wife to marry until I was able to take care of her and the family we planned.
Does that make me a victim of Materialism, I do not think so.[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
Your parents did an incredible job with you. Do your brothers and sisters share the same rock solid values you have?



QUOTE=SimplyAmorous;1458135]Romantic Guy...your wife sounds just like *ME* ....except he lets me handle all the finances.... I pay every bill/ credit card... call the banks for CD rates...all of it... ..I've never bounced a check, pay every credit bill in full every month - I like making $$ off of them! 

I never cared about how much a man made...I looked at his character & how he treated me above all.... but it was imperative...since I dreamed of a Family/ security / smooth running.... that he could :

*1. *Hold a steady full time Job...
*2.* Was a dependable respected employee -with favor (good references for down the road)
*3*. That he could live within his means & still save $$ on the side for the future /our dreams.. with my saving along with him (our dream was buying a house in the country, a little land).... 

He knows I didn't marry him for his $$.... as he worked in a Grocery Store when we got hitched. I even made more than him at the time. We've done amazingly well on his Blue collar income (better job came after 7 yrs in)... we've been debt free for yrs now. Our cars are older and this is a blessing - as he can fix them. No desire for new. 

"Consignment shops" are great for buying for our larger family... Mall shopping - probably only do it about 3 times a year....when we go .... it's a special treat....the little one gets all excited to ride the elevator. That's just a piece of our life and we are very happy...and content. 

And I never skimp on our Family & Romantic Vacations, anything we want to do... we have the $$ for it...we make it happen.[/QUOTE]


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

RD, women accept that _our men_ are visual because that is only one aspect of men, and there are many, many other aspects that we love and appreciate about them. Their kindness, their humor, their passion, their strength, their intelligence...these are the things we see in our men and when they direct their visual appetite toward us, we're good with that because we want to be admired by the men we love and cherish.

Some women are materialistic and some women are not, some _need _a man who is financially stable and some _want _a man who is financially stable for a lot of different reasons. But that is not all they are. They are also a lot of other qualities which should be considered carefully as well.

You, for example, are putting your wife on a pedestal because she's never had to care about money because she's always had it. But she is a lot of other things, things you really need to take a good, hard look at...a sex addict who has emotionally, mentally and physically abused you is hardly someone you need to hold onto simply because you fear materialistic women. 

Fear, and act, for your mental health _now_, not what might or might not be an issue in the future. For all you know, you might drop your daughter off at kindergarten next year and fall in love with a lovely teacher at her school who doesn't give a crap about money but about helping young kids get a good start in life with an education. Open your eyes, develop your interests, and stay out of the fancy bars where the materialistic men and women congregate to find each other.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/
Heh fall in love with a lovely teacher at my daughter's school? Why does that remind me of a movie 
Reality is that the lovely teacher is probably sick of earning minimal salary teaching kindergarden and is looking for a rich knight in shining armor heh

I find the whole situation rather awkward, I'm in a VERY different position now compared to years ago. I might have to just sell off my cars and buy a sh-tbox to drive around, I'll lose the house upon divorce but that's just less work for me and I'll probably rent a cheap apartment, and then tell all my dates I have no career lol

Then if they don't dump me within the month, I'll reveal to them that I have my own business, and watch them flip - only to dump me for lying to them! Lol - I don't know, I'm still loyal to my wife until we decide to go our seperate ways and to give up on reconciliation.

I'm in one of the most materialist cities in the world but I ain't moving until I can say for real that I can retire. Perhaps I'm a bit materialist myself now... but I dunno, guess I've changed over the years too. Guess I don't really want to go back to my old life.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'll bring in the studies to back this up, but: 

People who are materialistic are less happy, less satisfied with life, more likely to commit suicide, divorce more often, and take more medication for their mental health than people who are not materialistic. 

We, as a Western society, are more materialistic than any other society in history. 

You're going to run into a lot of materialistic women if you live in the West, and probably anywhere else that has significant media contact enabling advertising and Western cultural value-spreading (and by that, I mean materialistic, not free speech, etc.) AND lack any cultural norms against materialism. Not coincidentally, these women will be unhappy, bitter, heavily medicated, and unstable. If you look deep inside yourself, you won't want to be with these sorts of women anyway. 

Do women "objectify" wealthy men? Well, no, not in the way people use that term regarding men ogling pretty ladies. There's no sexual response to Bill Gates or Kim Dotcom. Status itself provides some sort of sexual response, but "status" is a very squishy concept - when I was gigging as a rock guitarist, I had "status" even if I made less than the guy with the toupee in the corner office. 

We are living in a hyper-materialistic society and the result is a chilling affirmation of what the Book says: The love of money is the root of all evil.

Another book: 

The High Price of Materialism: Tim Kasser: 9780262611978: Amazon.com: Books

Read it


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Re: "women want men who can provide, men want women with good genes, evolutionarily..."

That's only half the story. 
Women have just as much at stake in having healthy children who can reproduce. That is, if you're not having grandchildren, you're not "successful" evolutionarily. Looks are just an indicator of health/fitness and the likely health/fitness of the potential children. That's why there IS such a thing as a good-looking man, and a good looking man will usually have a fairly symmetrical face, a relatively strong jaw, a certain shoulder-to-waist ratio, etc. 

I think that one could argue that looks are MORE important to women than to men; because of the increased parental investment by the woman (can only get pregnant by one man at a time, while a man could impregnate 100 women a year, etc.), women have to be choosier about which men are good-looking enough. 

That would probably explain why women rate a relatively small percentage of men as good-looking in anonymous studies, while men rate a large percentage of women as good-looking. It's not as if men are "shallower" and therefore find lots of women hot; it's that women HAVE to be choosier about men's looks and thus find a smaller percentage of men good-looking. Looks have more importance and thus the number of men who are "good looking enough" is smaller. 

Add on to that the fact that a "mate" doesn't have to be the one who mates with the woman; a successful strategy, if you can't find a good-looking rich guy, might be to share genes with the 'sexy' guy and then settle down with the well-off dude. This isn't uncommon among other mammals. And this certainly isn't a moral indictment of women - men have their own nefarious sexual/evolutionary strategies. 

So it's not as if looks don't matter to a woman when choosing a sex partner. It's just that:
a) The "provider" doesn't HAVE to be the sex partner at all. 
b) Looks/health of children is just one factor in having children that survive to reproducing age, and thus has lower *relative* importance.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I found it kind of smothering but then again I'm not materialistic and not a gift person. I'm also fiercely independent. I've dated plenty of guys with money who whined, dined and bought me gifts. I dumped them and married a broke cop. Lol
> 
> Men with money like to use it to control. This was my experience anyway. They thought I could be bought and well obviously I cannot.


Same.Money factored into my decision process for leaving my ex.He made too much of it and I couldn't handle that lifestyle


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> SA,
> Your parents did an incredible job with you. Do your brothers and sisters share the same rock solid values you have?


 I just noticed your post MEM... weeks later... I have no siblings ...why I wanted a large family likely...always envied families like that. 

My mom & Dad's families are both naturally frugal - so this helped.. but really... if anything... I was "DEPRIVED" in my teen years, Dad & Step Mom worked me hard -for the sake of doing my part... I didn't get any allowances ......I wasn't even given lunch money sometimes by my Step Mom (but I didn't tell my dad), I was not a complainer, I could get by...

My friends at school took care of me -whatever they didn't want to eat.. so because of these things.. I learned the value of a $1 pretty well & when I got my hands on one.. I saved it...I had dreams and I wasn't going to flush them down the toilet...for some spending spree. 

If I wanted to be a frivolous spender, I'd have to marry Mr Big Bucks... or go to College & get a career & pay all those loans back....which would have had sucked my dreams of being a younger Mom out the window...

My dreams were just simplier... find a great guy...work together to achieve our goals little by little... so long as he was Mr Responsible.. building them slowly was fine by me, cause I know how to manage a $1......Probably lucky it all worked out the way it did though.. 

Life is getting more & more expensive to live...I almost feel bad for our kids today...if you don't go to college ...you're screwed...even if you do go ...it is still awful difficult to land a good paying job some places.



SoWhat said:


> We are living in a hyper-materialistic society and the result is a chilling affirmation of what the Book says: The love of money is the root of all evil.
> 
> Another book:
> 
> The High Price of Materialism: Tim Kasser: 9780262611978: Amazon.com: Books


 Sounds like a good book :smthumbup:


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

SA may be my favorite person on this site. 

My parents have a lot of money. I had no idea growing up. We had a lot of land but I lived in the country and EVERYONE had a lot of land, so that didn't strike me as odd. 

We didn't have a lot of toys, we learned to get joy from people and books, and dad put us to work --- real work, with our hands and sweat, out in the fields and for other peoples' farms -- when we were 14 to 18. 

I hope I can raise my kids like that.


----------

