# R? Limbo? Where am I?



## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

For those of you following my previous thread, I have not sent the texts over to OMW. I have tried to reach her by phone to set up a F2F, to avoid potential problems with hacked texts, but no pick up. At this point, I am neutral as to what this information can do. As long as I hold it, I feel like it is a deterrent to my WW or OM contacting each other. I know my W's NC will break if I send the full package, and will set everything back again. As for OMW, she seems not interested in dealing with the truth. If she is, I am a phone call away and I will give her everything. I know you guys are going to $hit all over me for this. I am open to hearing how I can gain by a move right now. 

As for my WW, she is inching ever closer to remorse, but I am not sure where we stand. There are many hopeful signs. She accepts full responsibility for the affair - and doesn't blame our relationship for it anymore. She says she is committed to our marriage and doing everything it takes. She says she now realizes how much she stands to lose and how stupid it all was. 

She has given me full access to her phone, accepted a block on her phone to his numbers. I have access to all her email accts. etc. She has agreed to and does share her agenda for the day. She is in NC but we haven't done the formal letter thing.

She has agreed to the painful but necessary step of full disclosure. She has already shared a lot more info, but hasn't quite divulged everything. She admits to being intimidated by me and feels like I may "fly off the handle". But she has agreed not to move out of the house and to go on this trip next week. I have agreed to put our M conversations on hold during the trip, to ease her anxiety, if nothing else. 

She says she is open to counseling, but that she believes it will not help. I don't think she is open, at the moment, to do the hard work of introspection in IC. While her words and actions show some remorse, I am struck by the fact that the texts are still a trigger for her, and she is upset that I will not rule out sending the full package. I am also struck by her somewhat casual attitude towards the situation. She has heard me talk about extraordinary precautions around NC, but balks at some of it. 

So, where am I? Early R? False R? 

Given the early signs, should I continue my patchy 180 and do better? Or do I allow more communication? 

I continue to work on the personal side of 180. A D plan is in place. I am working on a timeline that puts IC and MC as dealbreakers. I have thought through a move plan and a plan for custody. The financials are stable and in control. 

I guess my q is - is this early R and how do I approach it?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

You can't be in R alone. You are in limbo.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think you like the control the texts are giving you. Maybe it is helping regain some sense and balance of power after being helpless about her affair for so long


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

limbo


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

I have read your previous thread, and I am unsure if you can do a 
"patchy 180" AND a R (false or real).

You are in a false R, sorry. The potential is there for a true R, but I am afraid it will only come when you quit deferring to her level of comfort. She is playing nice because she got you to back off. 

Why make IC and MC dealbreakers? She already said upfront, she does not think they will work. 

The way she has acted should be a dealbreaker, but its not, she even gets a problem-free vacation where you won't address M ! See how that is kinda 180 and not even close to R?

A 180=you move on, go on vacation with your kids, without her, as many advised you earlier. True R= you go on a romantic vacation where she WANTS to restore her bond with you.

You have neither.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

One thing to consider: essentially your wife protects the OM from exposure by staying with you. Sincerity of her R efforts will always look dubious unless you expose fully. The situation doesn't look very healthy.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Delusional.


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

snap said:


> One thing to consider: essentially your wife protects the OM from exposure by staying with you. Sincerity of her R efforts will always look dubious unless you expose fully. The situation doesn't look very healthy.


No, she isn't staying because I have the texts. There was no future with the guy. Some defogging has left her pretty clear about what she had to lose and how stupid it was. 

Right now, she is negotiating. I want to be tough, yet keep the dialog going. I feel like a full 180 at this point will only push her away. Her early steps seem genuine. 

I do realize that having the texts hanging over her is detrimental to her full-hearted focus on fixing issues. She is in rug-sweep mode right now. 

How does one handle early R/Limbo + Rug Sweeping?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, say if you R for sometime and then expose the OM. Then what? How do you think the wife will react? You will be back to square one. This might break the marriage or you might start all over again. 

As long as you have the text messages, you won't be sure if she is doing it for him or for you.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I feel horrible for the OMW


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

You are trying to beat her into remorse. I have my doubts that it will work.

Watch for the affair going underground, there is a good chance for that.


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I feel horrible for the OMW


I am not sure how to handle it now. I was told not to send the texts in the mail for legal reasons. I have tried to reach her for a F2F, but I feel she is not picking up my calls. 

After 20+ years of a delusional marriage, she may have settled back into her stupor.


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Ok, say if you R for sometime and then expose the OM. Then what?


Is there no scenario where we move on and the texts are forgotten?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what legal reasons?


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> what legal reasons?


I was told that I could be taken to court for hacking into my wife's phone backup. Yeah, this sounds unlikely. 

At this point, is there anything to be gained by more exposure? The OM is leaving my W the heck alone. He may not forever, but for now, he is. My W is showing increasing signs of moving on and working on our M.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

thrway214 said:


> After 20+ years of a delusional marriage, she may have settled back into her stupor.


Wow, I feel for you, -I really do -but it is amazing how you can see the delusion in their marriage, but can't you see the delusion in your own marriage...

Yes there is a scenario where the texts all go away--- it's the one where you get your heart broken--- again.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you'd have to have a really zealous prosecutor


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well, I guess you could send the OM an email and let him know that if you catch him in contact with your wife again you will give all the texts to his wife, whatever the cost. 

But your still holding his wife hostage.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for you or want to root for you. You sound like you are more underhanded and sneaky than your wife. 

I think you two deserve each other.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

thrway214 said:


> Is there no scenario where we move on and the texts are forgotten?


Yes, with doubts(if she really chose you) and paranoia(if they went underground) for the rest of your life


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Well, I guess you could send the OM an email and let him know that if you catch him in contact with your wife again you will give all the texts to his wife, whatever the cost.
> 
> But your still holding his wife hostage.
> 
> ...


As harsh as this assessment is, I think it is fair. I have enabled this bull****, and I have to re-learn a whole new set of skills and attitudes.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Is the phone and phone account in her name yours or both? If it is in her name only then don't send the text, then hide them somewhere, make copies of them and have a good friend safeguard them. Depending on the state you could end up in deep doo doo if your WS turns on you.

*I know my W's NC will break if I send the full package, and will set everything back again.*

Why? What do you mean by this?

*I have agreed to put our M conversations on hold during the trip, to ease her anxiety, if nothing else. *

Perhaps a better approach would be this. During the vacation set aside an hour a couple of times during vacation to discuss the A. Say an hour on Monday, another hour on Weds, and another hour on Friday. Once the hour is up move on to doing fun things. This approach would give you an outlet and give her some relief knowing that these are the only times you will discuss it. You need to talk about this crap and putting it on hold for a week is not a good idea. Personally I would be building up too much steam and when the top comes off I would be in flip out mode. Just saying this approach has worked for me and my WS seems to like this approach instead of never knowing when I will explode, like I did for quite a while.

*While her words and actions show some remorse, I am struck by the fact that the texts are still a trigger for her, and she is upset that I will not rule out sending the full package.*

Tell her tough cookies. Get over it. And this is one of several issues where you will not and do not have a say.


*I am also struck by her somewhat casual attitude towards the situation. She has heard me talk about extraordinary precautions around NC, but balks at some of it.*

No contact means no contact. Again, tell her tough cookies, Get over it and this is one of the issues where you will not and do not have a say.


*I am working on a timeline that puts IC and MC as dealbreakers.*

Again, tell her tough cookies, Get over it and this is one of the issues where you will not and do not have a say. you will need to start IC and I want you to sign a release for the conselor to give me a copy of the treatment plan.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

LIMBO. No doubt about it. She's nowhere near ready for R. Negotiating? Inching toward remorse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What part of the 180 would you like to modify? 

You never did say why there was an element of danger involved did you? Could OMW be afraid of OM?


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

chapparal said:


> What part of the 180 would you like to modify?
> 
> You never did say why there was an element of danger involved did you? Could OMW be afraid of OM?


Not sure why the previous A is so explosive. But OM threatened to eff up my world if I continue to eff with his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

thrway214 said:


> Not sure why the previous A is so explosive. But OM threatened to eff up my world if I continue to eff with his.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are not f-ing up his life! He is f-ing up your life! Why is this so hard to get straight? 

The longer you wait to tell the OMW everything you know, the longer he has to inoculate her against the truth and make you look like you are the jealous, crazy husband.

This is a no-win. What they call lose/lose negotiating. The only ones that win this game are the betrayers.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

thrway214 said:


> Not sure why the previous A is so explosive. But OM threatened to eff up my world if I continue to eff with his.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's an old man trying to scare you off. Looks like it worked too.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

thrway214 said:


> So, where am I? Early R? False R?
> 
> I guess my q is - is this early R and how do I approach it?



Based on what you've described, I'd say early false R.

You say your wife would break NC if you gave the OMW the texts. If this is the case, then she is just biding her time. Not necessarily to get back together with the OM, but to wait for a better option and use you as a safety net until that time.

There is no negotiating by the WS in true R, unless it's to bargain their way to stay in the BS's life by offering to do anything for R.

In R, words mean very little coming from a WS's lips. They've already lied and broken promises, why believe them now?

Actions are important, but not the most important part of R. A wayward spouse can "act" remorseful and go through the motions until they feel it's "safe" to go wayward again.

Attitude is what I find to be the most telling. . . defensiveness, demands, and/or reluctance by the WS to do whatever the BS needs to heal are strong indicators of false R.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes==beware the false R......


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

He won't give up the logs. 

He is completely owned by his WW, so intimidated by her and Grandpa in fact that that he is willing to allow the OMW to wander throug the rest of her life in the web of lies her husband has spun around her. 

Cowardice.

Un-be-lieve-a-ble....


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You aren't in R is she's there by coercion.

Real R is only by choice.

If she is there because of coercion then sooner or later she will pick up the affair, or pick up some other affair as a escape from you.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> He's an old man trying to scare you off. Looks like it worked too.


Indeed, very successfully as well. 

The old man must know something more than we are being told. After so many folk asking you to send the logs and you still decline says there is something amiss or you are very afraid. Either way the marriage is dead and will not have a chance of recovery if you continue down the route you are on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The OP is heading for a bad false R.

He'll be back here in 6 months when his wife forgets to hide her burner phone and he finds another round of hot steamy texts to the OM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

thrway, your problem all along has *never* been the OM, it has been your W's free will. You and her alike seem to have trouble grasping this. You are trying to wait the fog out, but you don't realize you have power to clear the fog for everyone. Don't live in fear, tell the OWM, tell everyone you know, tell everyone your w knows, then you won't have to worry any longer about what your W wants to do with her own free will.


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