# Wife still works with EA partner, thinking of getting her to quit



## steve0 (Mar 19, 2012)

Hello,
I am new to the forum and would like some advice from anyone who has gone through a similar situation.

My wife sat me down 11/29/2011 and told me that she has started to have feelings for another man at work. They have gone to lunches, been for walks, exchanged gifts, have had hour-long phone calls while I was away for work and have kissed on several occasions. The last time they kissed, it was to say goodbye because they knew it was wrong. The EA lasted 3-4 months according to my wife.

Since then there have been many long conversations, sleepless nights, crying, blaming, sex, no sex, more sex, coldness, warmness and just a general emotional roller coaster. My main problem aside from not knowing if my marriage will survive this is the fact that the two of them still work together. My wife has assured me that any talking that occurs between them is only for work purposes. The job is a deadline stress-type of job that has it's crazy and slow times. My wife has said that she wants to work on us and that any more conversations relating to the details of their affair is just slowing us back from getting our marriage on track. However, over the past 2-3 months of agonizing conversations I have asked the following questions and gotten the following answers: 

"Do you miss him? Think about calling him?" answer: "yes"

"Are your feelings for him strong enough to keep our marriage from getting back on track?" answer: "yes"

"Do you love him" answer: silence "I'll take your silence as a yes" answer: more silence.

Yet, my wife insists that she can work with him and still commit to herself to working on our marriage. I think that this is ridiculous. She has a good job, and is afraid of losing it, and I don't want any financial difficulties to come our way either, but I can't help but think that she is still hanging onto that last bit of the affair in her mind. Oh yeah, I found out that she did reach out to him in an email about 6 weeks ago just to see how he is doing and let him know that she wants to be able to work together and put things behind them. The guys girlfriend found the email and he told my wife that he cannot talk to her.

I am humiliated and have no self esteem because of all this. I had no idea. Anyway...... What I am thinking about is this-
My wife wants us to start going to marriage counseling and I am really wanting to go as well, but I feel like I want her fully committed to the marriage and that to me means, no contact.
I want her to quit her job as a sign of commitment to our marriage. No time limits, but I will not go to counseling until she is not working with him anymore.

Is this a good idea? Am I going to push her towards him? I need to do something that gives me some sort of control over my life. I feel like she is having everything her way.

Please give some advice before I confront her on this.

Steve0


----------



## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

r u sure affair is over, they may have gone underground.first verify this, otherwise counseling is just waste of time and money.

ur wife is showing total disrespect to u and marriage by still in contact with other man even after exposure.
Set ur boundaries and tell her its not acceptable in marriage.MAN UP


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Making her quit isn't going to make that love fade in my opinion. It will decrease their day to day contact but that will make her miss him more and inevitably they'll continue their relationship beyond the work place, the urge will be too strong. Besides she'll just resent you for taking her out of a good job.

The fact she's in love with him is the source of my speculation and is very worrying indeed. There's alot of trickle truth here. I hold the view that if your spouse falls in love with their affair partner, the marriage is over. That does not however mean that I'm recommending you guys get divorced. But before any true reconciliation happens she has to willingly snap out of the affair fog otherwise you'll be in a protracted marital "limbo". You need to read up on the "180" and "no more mr nice guy" links.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If your wife cannot---state solidly--that she feels nothing for her lover---and is willing to go complete NC---than she is still in her A.

Yes she gives up her job---it boils down to job vs mge.---It may cost you both some bucks---but what is more important---to you????

Your wife admits to lots of kissing---probably it has gone beyond that---she just won't admit it

She doesn't wanna discuss---she just wants to sweep this under the rug---while she moves along keeping in contact with him, and even "dissing" you by re-contacting him, she still has you in 2nd place---and I guarantee you no matter what she says---she thinks of him, way more than she thinks of you.

There is no counseling till her A---is completely over

You should not feel humiliated, or loose your self-worth---you didn't force/cause her to have her A-----Has she ever told you just exactly why she is choosing her lover over you---for that is what she is doing

You cannot stop her from contacting her lover---you can't control what she does with her life---you can only control what you do

You need to let her know in no uncertain terms---what you want---and what your ACTIONABLE consequences will be---no words as consequences---words and idle threats are completely meaningless----only actual deeds, will get results

Unfortunately you need to be rather harsh about this----you need to put D., on the table, if she will not respect her mge., family, and what mge., stands for.

You have a dilemma---in that, if you do not think you want to continue in this mge---then she should keep her job---otherwise in a D. settlement---you will be paying her alimony----SO YOU REALLY MUST DECIDE AT SOME POINT IN TIME HOW YOU WANT TO PROCEED-----if you try to R---she cannot see her lover---so NC---No Job---if you decide she has gone to far, and you don't wanna stay with her---then by all means, let her keep her job----you do have some things to think about---and some decisions to make---BUT take your time, what you decide---affects you, for the rest of your life.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

If she does not quit the job, and go no contact with him, the marriage is over. Whether you like it or not.

IMO, the affair has gone physical, I dont know what your bubble break point is. 

Do you know why she revealed her A to you? Is the OM married? Could you think of expose him to his wife or GF?

How about the company she works? Can you contact the company and hint at what is going on?

All these are only to send a warning signal.

She already crossed the borders when she went into A be it EA or PA.

Unless she shows true remorse in action, there is little chance for R.

Why does she remain in silence for your question?

* "Do you love him" answer: silence "I'll take your silence as a yes" answer: more silence.*

The A is more serious than what you think.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

At this point you are the 2nd choice. I don't see her ready to really reconcile yet.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You were completely unaware of this. She came to you and willingly told you. That is a good sign.

In order to feel control of your life, you need a plan. You sound like you may have been a bit of a doormat since finding out. You have to be willing to lose her in order to regain your marriage.

She wanted to end it, but she hasn't been able to forget him. No wonder, she sees him every day at work.

Sorry to say, she must quit her job for your marriage to survive. She will not get over him otherwise.

She must have no contact with him. Absolutely none. No phone calls, emails, texts, looking at his facebook profile, etc. She must block him on whatever accounts she can. And she definitely cannot see him at all. She must quit her job. It's her job or your marriage.

She must give you complete access to all of her communication devices and accounts. You must have all passwords and be able to verify no contact whenever you need to. That means that she never deletes any messages or browsing history.

She must show remorse for what she's done. She must be trying to win you back. It seems that you are trying to win her back. That will not work.

Tell her your require all of the above or you will file for divorce. If she refuses, which she probably will, you must file. You can stop it later if she agrees to your conditions. By filing for divorce, you are forcing the situation. You or other man. Her marriage or other man. By filing for divorce, you show her the seriousness of the situation. You also save yourself a lot of pain. Why drag it out? It comes down to a choice between you or him. If she is going to choose him, better to do it now and get it over with than put yourself through months or even years of pain of her flip-flopping and rollercoasting.

Look at some of the other threads on this forum where the betrayed spouse has refused to take a stand. Some of them have gone on for years and the couple are no closer to a resolution than they were on day one.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I am guessing that the guy broke up with her. He does not want her or she would be gone in a minute. He was even trying to get rid of her when she messaged him. Try talking to his gf for more accurate details if you can. 

And I don't think that they stopped at kissing either. I am pretty sure about that.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If your WW is truly remorseful, she will do anything to save your marriage, which includes quitting this job. She CANNOT GO NC with this OM unless she quits. And you cannot even begin the R process unless NC has been established for some time. Look at the goodfight's situation. If she resents you for quitting her job, then she's not truly remorseful and any R at this point will just be false R. 

You also need to accept that this is NOT an EA, it's already gone PA if they have kissed. Like others have said, this is usually TT and probably the tip of the iceberg. You need to try and get full disclosure.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

steve0 said:


> My wife sat me down 11/29/2011 and told me that she has started to have feelings for another man at work. _They have gone to lunches, been for walks, exchanged gifts, have had hour-long phone calls while I was away for work _and have kissed on several occasions. *The last time they kissed*, it was to say goodbye because they knew it was wrong. The EA lasted 3-4 months according to my wife.


Do you see what she has been doing? She has been *DATING* the OM. Don't accept for a minute that this has just been kissing. Kissing is usually TT code for something worse, possibly oral sex or full on intercourse. 










They could have gone to hotels, they could have had parking lot sex, or any number of things. One OM was even complaining to a BSs WW that she wouldn't bang him in the elevator! The only way to know for sure is a polygraph.



steve0 said:


> My wife has said that she wants to work on us and that any more conversations relating to the details of their affair is just slowing us back from getting our marriage on track.


This is called rug sweeping, taken from sweeping it under the rug. This isn't true remorse. 










If you rug sweep this, it will only cause resentment to build within you. She has to own up to what she has done. Look at this table below.










Has she been transparent? Has she willingly handed over any and all passwords to you? Is she still hiding her cell phone? 



steve0 said:


> Yet, *my wife insists that she can work with him and still commit to herself to working on our marriage*. I think that this is ridiculous. She has a good job, and is afraid of losing it, and I don't want any financial difficulties to come our way either, but I can't help but think that she is still hanging onto that last bit of the affair in her mind.


You're right. It's ridiculous. As long as she is in contact with OM in any way whatsoever, the affair is still on. She has to go completely NC with the OM.



steve0 said:


> Oh yeah, I found out that she did reach out to him in an email about 6 weeks ago just to see how he is doing and let him know that she wants to be able to work together and put things behind them. The guys girlfriend found the email and he told my wife that he cannot talk to her.


This is called "fishing", and shows you how deeply she's still in the fog. She fished for renewed contact and to continue the affair. How did you find out? Have you installed any keyloggers on the computer or VARs?


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed would your wife stand for this? You are her second choice. If the OM is married or has a girlfriend then you need to expose it to them. Your wife has disrespected you and your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why she exposed her affair to you? was it because his GF found out and your wife afraid of GF exposing it to you? or any other reason. I don't believe her story of guilt as they were doing it for many months.

Dont trust her words kissed many times, it surely PA, kissed a lot is the code of cheaters for sex.

Ask her for a polygraph, see her reaction. If she agree do that, if she disagree there is more to what she says.

Her silence its ridiculous by this she told you she prefer OM not you. You are here back up plan.

May be OM dumped her (Email fishing by her shows that), if he didn't done that you may have never known about this. why he dumped her? May be he got what he was looking for, or don't wanted to loose his GF for a married cheater.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

No question she needs to quit her job.

Either she quits or you file for divorce. Those should be her only options.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Some betrayed spouses can reconcile with their unfaithful spouses after an affair, and some can't. It simply means that for some people an affair is an automatic deal breaker - I am one of those people - and for some it isn't. It doesn't make one group better than the other. Which of these two do you belong to? The answer is important because if you choose incorrectly then it doesn't matter if your wife quits her job, and moves heaven and earth in her efforts to prove to you that she will never be the woman who betrayed you, you will not be able to reconcile and will eventually end up filing for divorce. So think carefully and be honest as to which of the two groups you belong to.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Have you considered that the only reason your wife may have told you is because OMW found out about the A based on her own suspicions of OM.If the OMW threatened to out her to you she may have wanted to feed you a preemptive story to minimize the real truth and control the situation.

At the very least she is still in the affair in her head and there are 3 of you in your marriage.Probably gone underground.jmo


----------



## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

TBT said:


> Have you considered that the only reason your wife may have told you is because OMW found out about the A based on her own suspicions of OM.If the OMW threatened to out her to you she may have wanted to feed you a preemptive story to minimize the real truth and control the situation.


This was my first thought as well. 

I required my wife quit her job as a condition of R. I'm so glad I did because if she hadn't, we would probably be divorced by now.

You are going to drive yourself crazy wondering what is going on when she leaves the house in the morning.

It was told to me like this: A marriage can survive a period of unemployment, it can not survive an ongoing affair. You need to realize this. 

Also, like Lord Mayhem said, beware of her resenting you for losing the job. Don't ever take the blame for that. It's not like you would be asking her to quit had she not had an affair with a coworker right?


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm in a similar situation right now. My wife at least potentially could work with the OM (she's on call, works in a variety of locations. Its very possible the location of the OM will request her/she'll be assigned there). We dont know if that will happen, and it could be she is never assigned there, but its probable.

I told her I do not want her to go there, period. She said she understands but that that would greatly affect her job/look bad etc etc...She says she wouldnt even be in the same room as him etc, I say BS. We're at an impasse. My thinking is though....she better think of a good excuse to not go there or else I'm going to go ****ing nuts/leave her.

We'll see what happens.

In my case she MIGHT be assigned there once in awhile, but there is a chance she never will. In your case they would be working together daily, correct? In that case, if it were me, I would absolutely not allow that. The WS would have to quit, no question about it. The WS should also realize that this is the only appropriate action if the WS is truly remorseful. If the WS spouse blames you for losing the job, that's simply untrue, unfair, insensitive, and perhaps indicitive that she is either continuing the affair or at least not very or at all remorseful.

Good luck.

Remember...you didn't cause the A, the WS did. It's not your fault.


----------



## RecoveredinArizona (Mar 19, 2012)

Steve,

You are right to feel uncomfortable with your wife still working with this man. One of them needs to change jobs. There is an old proverb: "the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately incurable, Who can Know it?" 

If your wife had those kind of feelings, they won't just go away and she may fall to the temptation again. And if they have kissed, then what is the next step?

I went through this with my own wife and the best thing i did was to tell her, "absolutely no contact or pack your bags." She chose to cut of the contact and our marriage has recovered from the A. Even had she packed her bags, as a man I refuse to be treated that way. You need to take your stand.

In am so sorry for the hurt you are feeling! The hurt and damage to your marriage cannot be repaired as long as your wife has contact with this man.

I wish you the best!

Steve in Tucson


----------



## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree with some of the other posters, your wife if she wants to stay in the marriage she needs to quit her job, she stays emotionally attached to him everytime she even sees him, worse if she speaks to him.
She will never withdraw from him. As long as she is attached to him she can't work on her marriage or care about you.....
I would give her a choice and if she refuses exposing the affair and having a conversation with the OM's GF is a must, she has to watch him from her end......
I would throw a key logger on her comp, tap her phone, gps in her car find out what you are dealing with.......
don't tell her that you are watching her.
When the 3rd person is gone from her life then you two start spending at least 15 hours of time together every week doing something not just watching tv.......fall in love again......
draw your line in the sand and ask her to leave if she doesn't do what is best for you and her marriage.......nothing else is acceptable, even if she moves out and is gone for a while she will realize what she feels for him is nothing more than a fantasy......when reality hits her square in the face it should wake her up.
In the meantime you be a strong controlled man, look good, smell good, and be the best husband you can be......
Tell her you are moving forward and hopes she goes with you


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She needs to quit her job so she can be totally NC. She will not go through withdrawal unless she does this.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Never ever accept being an option to your so.
so what that she told you. This is essentially her saying she will stab you in the yes part and kill you, so you should smile when she does it.

Go nuclear and demand she quit her job.
,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Never ever accept being an option to your so.
> so what that she told you. This is essentially her saying she will stab you in the yes part and kill you, so you should smile when she does it.
> 
> Go nuclear and demand she quit her job.
> ...



I see everyone's thinking, but isn't a large loss of income going to make the marriage stressful? If my husband were to ask me to quit my job, I would have to refuse. I make 2/3 of our income. We could not pay our bills on his income. So if I were to quit, we'd be having major problems. Plus I would be worried about finding another job with the economy still being tough. Can you live for several months or a year without her bringing in income?

I'm not totally disagreeing. I'm just asking. How does one spouse give up a food job and income and not be totally stressed out, thus doing the marriage more damage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

*"Do you miss him? Think about calling him?" answer: "yes"

"Are your feelings for him strong enough to keep our marriage from getting back on track?" answer: "yes"

"Do you love him" answer: silence "I'll take your silence as a yes" answer: more silence.*

Your wife is in love with another man to the point that she cannot give him up and commit to the marriage. She claims they have ended it because it was wrong. Nothing has ended. She now sees him as the wonderful person who has sacrificed himself for her happiness. You are the bump in the road to her happiness with him.
She is committed to him, not you.

Asking her to quit her job will only make her resent you. You cannot control her or her feelings. Making demands (quit job) will not help you.

In my opinion, tell her that you cannot be married to someone who is in love with another man and that you will be filing for divorce. Then do it. Filing does not mean you have to go through with it and the process can be stopped at anytime. This could shock her out of her fog or divorce maybe what she wants anyway. 

Either way you will get your answer.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> In my opinion, tell her that you cannot be married to someone who is in love with another man and that you will be filing for divorce. Then do it. Filing does not mean you have to go through with it and the process can be stopped at anytime. This could shock her out of her fog or divorce maybe what she wants anyway.
> 
> Either way you will get your answer.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The OP left soon after posting this and hasn't been back yet.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I have a feeling that the OP may be very disposable to his wife. She evidently has a good job and so can support herself independent of him and so I worry she may choose to keep her career and pursue the other man. I think it all depends on how much love she has for her husband which she's indicated is not very much. Divorce might be the best option imo.


----------



## steve0 (Mar 19, 2012)

I appreciate all of the feedback from everyone. I should also mention that I have a seven-year old son and I do not want to divorce and put this on him. I realize all of the points that everyone is making and they are valid.

I am not demanding that my wife quit her job today. What I have told her is that I will not go to counseling until she makes a full commitment to our marriage, which involves leaving her job. I put no timeline on it. She can look for another job so that there is no period of unemployment, etc. It is a good job, but between my job and our savings, my wife could be unemployed for 4-6 months without it hurting us. She works in IT and there are plenty of jobs available to her.

I don't want a divorce, but realize that if some things don't change it will be my only choice. I won't be a doormat, 2nd choice or any of those other things for the rest of my married life. I just want to give it every chance to heal that I can. We had something very special at one time. Heck, before this all happened, we were actually beginning the process of adopting our second child. Obviously that is not happening now. It has just been a lot to deal with, but I am ready to handle it in a new way other than worrying, wringing my hands and begging. I don't want to file for divorce before we try counseling, etc.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Print this off and read/study it with her. Watch her reactions to it closely. 

Good luck and prayers

Chap



Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What was her response? By not putting a timeline on it, you are setting yourself for months if not years of misery. If her response was not along the lines of "I choose you and our marriage, I will begin looking for a job today," you may be stuck where you are now for quite a long time.

She must feel great about herself now. She has two guys fighting for her or willing to wait for her. Choosing you means losing him. Why should she choose when she can have both?

Filing divorce sometimes snaps them out of it and brings them back much quicker. If not, at least you find out sooner without an indefinite time waiting.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If you give her a chance to wait, you will lose her to the other man.

She has already proven to you she cannot resist his advances.

No, either she quits now or you file. Those are the two choices you should lay before her. Job be damned.


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I guess some of you don't need to work. How can you say job be damned? I just can't understand people up and quitting jobs in this economy??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> I guess some of you don't need to work. How can you say job be damned? I just can't understand people up and quitting jobs in this economy??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes you have to choose. Job or marriage.

You can visit many threads here on TAM and on other similar boards, you can peruse hundreds of blogs, you can read every book on marriage advice, every book on surviving an affair. They all unequivocally state that the wayward spouse much cut off *ALL CONTACT* even if that means leaving a job. Please show me one time that a marriage has survived an office affair where the two APs continued to work together? I've never seen one. Have you?


----------



## RecoveredinArizona (Mar 19, 2012)

Even in this economy. The marriage is more important than the job! If money is more important, then the marriage is toast anyway.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> I guess some of you don't need to work. How can you say job be damned? I just can't understand people up and quitting jobs in this economy??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what the OP said:



steve0 said:


> She can look for another job so that there is no period of unemployment, etc. It is a good job, but between my job and our savings, *my wife could be unemployed for 4-6 months without it hurting us*. She *works in IT* and *there are plenty of jobs available to her*.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

While I agree that she should quit her job, the problem is that demanding that she do it will only bring great resentment on her part. I believe that it would be better to inform her that it is *her choice* to stay in her job or quit BUT that it is also your choice to end the marriage or not. In fact, it would be wise that you inform her that until further notice, the marriage is on probation status.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Sometimes you have to choose. Job or marriage.
> 
> You can visit many threads here on TAM and on other similar boards, you can peruse hundreds of blogs, you can read every book on marriage advice, every book on surviving an affair. They all unequivocally state that the wayward spouse much cut off *ALL CONTACT* even if that means leaving a job. Please show me one time that a marriage has survived an office affair where the two APs continued to work together? I've never seen one. Have you?


:iagree:

And MC is absolutely useless while an affair is still ongoing, and it's going to be ongoing because NC has not been established by her quitting the job.

I can't believe I wasted my time linking to my pictures and wasting my bandwidth on some of these noobs who are in denial.


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And MC is absolutely useless while an affair is still ongoing, and it's going to be ongoing because NC has not been established by her quitting the job.
> 
> I can't believe I wasted my time linking to my pictures and wasting my bandwidth on some of these noobs who are in denial.


Thanks for the name calling. Really nice when someone offers a different opinion. 

I'm not saying she doesn't need to end contact, which means finding another job. 
What I'm wondering is how some of you are advocating her quitting immediately, not knowing the couple's financial situation. 

We all require money to live. For me, quitting work would mean losing my home, car and basically everything I have. I have been poor. I know the stress it causes on marriage and how it can destroy even a good marriage. I'm not trying to be materialistic, but it does cost to eat and live.

So that's what I'm saying. Again, it wasn't that she shouldn't start looking for another job; it was that unless her income is not needed for bills, quitting immediately is irresponsible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

steve0 said:


> I appreciate all of the feedback from everyone. I should also mention that I have a seven-year old son and I do not want to divorce and put this on him. I realize all of the points that everyone is making and they are valid.
> 
> I am not demanding that my wife quit her job today. What I have told her is that I will not go to counseling until she makes a full commitment to our marriage, which involves leaving her job. I put no timeline on it. She can look for another job so that there is no period of unemployment, etc. It is a good job, but between my job and our savings, my wife could be unemployed for 4-6 months without it hurting us. She works in IT and there are plenty of jobs available to her.
> 
> I don't want a divorce, but realize that if some things don't change it will be my only choice. I won't be a doormat, 2nd choice or any of those other things for the rest of my married life. I just want to give it every chance to heal that I can. We had something very special at one time. Heck, before this all happened, we were actually beginning the process of adopting our second child. Obviously that is not happening now. It has just been a lot to deal with, but I am ready to handle it in a new way other than worrying, wringing my hands and begging. I don't want to file for divorce before we try counseling, etc.


Counseling is a waste of time and money while she "In love with" another man. Counseling is a waste of time and money while your wife says "Her feelings for OM prevent her from committing to the marriage".

In your case - counseling is a waste of time and money.

Tell her you are going to talk to a lawyer to get the paperwork started. I know you do not want to do this because of your son, but can you really survive in a marriage that involves three people and a wife who admits to being in love with OM?


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> What I'm wondering is how some of you are advocating her quitting immediately, not knowing the couple's financial situation.


Read this again. This is his own words about their financial situation:



steve0 said:


> She can look for another job so that there is no period of unemployment, etc. It is a good job, but between my job and our savings, *my wife could be unemployed for 4-6 months without it hurting us*. She *works in IT* and *there are plenty of jobs available to her*.


She could be unemployed for half the year without hurting them. What does that tell you?


----------



## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> Thanks for the name calling. Really nice when someone offers a different opinion.
> 
> I'm not saying she doesn't need to end contact, which means finding another job.
> What I'm wondering is how some of you are advocating her quitting immediately, not knowing the couple's financial situation.
> ...


What are you talking about? He has 2 posts and says " It is a good job, but between my job and our savings, my wife could be unemployed for 4-6 months without it hurting us. She works in IT and there are plenty of jobs available to her."

Steve - this issue is greater than her employment, she is in love with him! Remember, for cheaters, kiss sometimes = f*ck. She was carrying on behind your back before, why would she stop if she is still in love with him? You are second fiddle in her heart (if you are even in the orchestra). Filing for D may be your only option (not just filing, meaning it). Definitely, the 180 applies. 

What happens if she commits to your marriage NOW, but the OM leaves his W in 6 months? Your W needs to be snapped out of love/fog, not just leave her job. She needs to be able to walk by the OM like a dieter needs to be able to walk past an ice cream parlor.


----------



## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

steve0 said:


> My wife sat me down 11/29/2011 and told me that she has started to have feelings for another man at work.


This is code for "I'm in love with somebody else". You must understand that in her mind right now, SHE LOVES HIM and SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU and can't remember if she ever really did.



steve0 said:


> Since then there have been many long conversations, sleepless nights, crying, blaming, sex, no sex, more sex, coldness, warmness and just a general emotional roller coaster.


And this will continue at your expense as long as she has ANY contact with him.



steve0 said:


> ...my wife insists that she can work with him and still commit to herself to working on our marriage..


She is like a recovering alcoholic who works at a bar and insists she can resist drinking, even a little.



steve0 said:


> She has a good job, and is afraid of losing it..


Understandable, but she also wants to minimize consequences, which is logical, but selfish.



steve0 said:


> and I don't want any financial difficulties to come our way either..


Which she will use as a wedge to get you to agree to less at you own expense.



steve0 said:


> My wife has assured me that any talking that occurs between them is only for work purposes.


Do you believe this in your heart? Are you willing to take her word for it?



steve0 said:


> Oh yeah, I found out that she did reach out to him in an email about 6 weeks ago ...The guys girlfriend found the email and he told my wife that he cannot talk to her.


Oh, so the thing about talking only for work purposes wasn't true after all. No surprises there. You can bet they won't make the mistake of emailing each other again. (using that email account anyway) They won't really need to anyway since they work together and can just talk face to face.



steve0 said:


> I want her to quit her job as a sign of commitment to our marriage.


This is smart IMO.



steve0 said:


> No time limits, but I will not go to counseling until she is not working with him anymore.


No time limits means you are willing to suffer indefinitely to spare her the consequences of her actions. It also means she is willing to accept that gift from you. Just don't expect her to be very appreciative.


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> I guess some of you don't need to work. How can you say job be damned? I just can't understand people up and quitting jobs in this economy??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With all due respect, I cannot stand this attitude. It shows that you just DO NOT GET THE SITUATION. No one is flippantly asking or suggesting to quit a job for no reason. Of course the economy is tough. Of course quitting a job is extremely difficult. Of course. No one doubt thats. But we're talking about an A that is very close to destroying a marriage. Are you married? Did you cheat or were cheated on? Your opinion here indicates to me that none of those occured to you. You must be single, because you clearly do not understand how important marriages are.

I also don't buy the "the-economy-is-too-tough-that-if-he-quits-his-job-then-he-and-his-family-will-shrival-up-and-die-or-be-sold-into-slavery. Come on. This is the first world, there are options. Dont get me wrong, they are tough as hell, but there are options. First of all, if the income shrinks, then downsize. Lower your opulent lifestyle. Downgrade the car. Take transit. Dont go out for dinner as much. Sell the house if need be. But come on, there are options.

When I think about how much my marriage means to me, I think, I know, I'd rather be living in a tin shack eating solely from food bank handouts with only one set of raggetdy clothes and a spare sweater as a bed..and still have a wonderful marriage...than I would living in a mansion (or middle-class suburbia) with all my physical needs met...but be without the meaningful and loving relationship of my wife. It's just about choosing what is more important to you. And the WS here is in IT, THE best industry to be in in terms of job prospects. Did you know IT is one of the only industries that still has constant shortages and looks for professionals over-seas? The WS will be just fine. She's isn't going to be sold into slavery if she quits her job. But she will lose her marriage if she keeps it.

The movie American Beauty comes to mind. Material comfort is so over-rated. Happiness does not derive from it.

/rant


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

*"Are your feelings for him strong enough to keep our marriage from getting back on track?" answer: "yes"
*

*Yet, my wife insists that she can work with him and still commit to herself to working on our marriage.*

These two statements cannot co-exist and be true.

She says her feelings for OM are so strong that they keep the marriage from getting back on track. Then she says she can work with OM and still commit to the marriage. HUH? This makes no sense at all.

Anyone else see this as conflicting statements?


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

Steve-o, you've been given some good advice from people who have gone down the road you're one before. It's difficult, emotional, stressful, draining etc, but just know you have to stand up for yourself, for your marriage, and your son, your family, and that involves resolutely standing up to this affair. Heed the advice is what I suggest. Raise the stakes, so to speak. You have to take firm action here and take the situation over. You have to kill the A in anyway that you can. You have to snap your wife out of her fog/addiction so she understands what the reality of the situation is. P****-footing is NOT going to resolve this, but only enable her and the A and make this situation harder for all parties involves, except the OM. Think of your son. Think of yourself. This affair is not your fault. If divorce is the result, it is not your fault. You have to come out both guns blazing, threaten divorce if she doesn't stop, and see what happens. She will either snap out of it and realize the A needs to stop; she chooses you. Or she will think you're bluffing or not care and continue with the OM; she rejects you (in this case the marriage was already over before you even pulled the D card). If the latter, then divorce occurs but SHE chose it, not you. You filed yes, but she decided on it. Its tough man, but you need to be tough here. 

Good luck. I know its not easy. But now is not the time to evade difficult decisions. Its alpha-male time.


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Read this again. This is his own words about their financial situation:
> 
> 
> 
> She could be unemployed for half the year without hurting them. What does that tell you?


I missed that posting. I'm in a work meeting and thought I had seen all posts. My fault for not catching it.

Still not appreciating the name calling though! Most of us come on her to offer advice. Since I'm often reading at work, I sometimes miss posts. I know now, though, I had better not or I will be subject to name calling. I can see why people give up on this site!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brokenbloke (Feb 21, 2012)

tennisstar said:


> I missed that posting. I'm in a work meeting and thought I had seen all posts. My fault for not catching it.
> 
> Still not appreciating the name calling though! Most of us come on her to offer advice. Since I'm often reading at work, I sometimes miss posts. I know now, though, I had better not or I will be subject to name calling. I can see why people give up on this site!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dont give up. Just dont say something controversial without reading all the posts! :smthumbup:

People here have gone through the worst pain imaginable so when they read something that goes against everything they know to be true and good advice in certain situations, situations that they went through, they get....defensive, angry, upset...Don't take it personally. 

I hope you stick around and continue in on the conversations.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Hope for the best.

Plan for the worst.

Does she have access to all your money (joint account)?

You might need to start preparing. Open a bank account in your name only and start depositing a few bucks here and there. Keep an eye on any joint credit cards.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> Still not appreciating the name calling though! Most of us come on her to offer advice. Since I'm often reading at work, I sometimes miss posts. I know now, though, I had better not or I will be subject to name calling. I can see why people give up on this site!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how exactly is it name calling? Noob is short for newbie, or newcomer. We were all noobs at one time or another. Now if someone called you [email protected], cuckold, moron, or something similar, that would be name calling. And no one mentioned you, it was meant for the poster of this thread. Geez.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tennisstar said:


> I see everyone's thinking, but isn't a large loss of income going to make the marriage stressful? If my husband were to ask me to quit my job, I would have to refuse. I make 2/3 of our income. We could not pay our bills on his income. So if I were to quit, we'd be having major problems. Plus I would be worried about finding another job with the economy still being tough. Can you live for several months or a year without her bringing in income?
> 
> I'm not totally disagreeing. I'm just asking. How does one spouse give up a food job and income and not be totally stressed out, thus doing the marriage more damage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife means the entire world to me. There is no job, no house and no amount of money more important to me. 

The marriage cannot heal with them working together. Just my opinion by the not quiting would be a deal breaker for me.

I was the primary bread winner by a large margin. I quit my job and found another.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You don't seem to grasp a major concept here----you very well could be in 2nd place in your own mge.

At best you are splitting time in her heart/mind, with her lover---who she says she loves, and would like to be with

Before you do anything, and please do not lock yourself into a R., no matter what cuz of your kid, and cuz you are so deeply in love with your child's mother.----SHE IS NOT RECIPROCATING, like a fully committed, in love, married woman should

You need to set some boundaries, with consequences, and you need to let her know that if she wants a chance at R----the game will be played by your rules, and she will do all the heavy lifting------If you wanna discuss something she did in her A---and you wanna talk about it, A THOUSAND TIMES, IN A THOUSAND DAYS---she answers, and she answers HAPPILY, each and every time.

You pretty much slid right by how you felt about all her kissing---and you know what---it doesn't need to be any more than repeated kissing---that in itself---Is a COMPLETE DISRESPECT FOR YOU, YOUR CHILDREN, AND YOUR MGE.------Kissing is just as bad as spreading her legs, kissing can be just as passionate, and maybe even more so than full on sex----her lips, and mind, and heart were there for him, and you were left nowhere, each and every time, they kissed.---SHE GAVE HERSELF to her LOVER, and put you in 2nd place in her heart, and her mind---AND SHE DID IT WILLINGLY

You had better deal with this, and deal with it strongly----her lover is still in the mge---and he ain't goin away until you bring her back to reality.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I think he abandoned this thread.

Or she may have assured him that they are not even talking during office, she may be true, they may be doing it only at parking lot in the back seat of their car as they did it earlier (which she wont say to him)


----------



## steve0 (Mar 19, 2012)

my wife has agreed to quit her job, and is currently planning on doing so in the next few weeks. I have also requested that she has a conversation with him and let him know that she is leaving to save her marriage and be with her husband. She feels that this is unnecessary and that when she leaves that will be sign enough. I told her that I don't want OM thinking that he can just try to restart the relationship when he starts to miss seeing her at work all the time. Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

She should give him a letter stating that she loves and respects her husband, values her family, is very sorry for risking losing her husband and family, and is very ashamed of how she behaved. The letter should state she wants the other man to cease all contact immediately. Then she should cease all contact outside of work, cease all contact at work that is not work-related and, upon finally leaving her job, cease all contact period.


----------



## TheGoodFight (Oct 26, 2011)

steve0 said:


> my wife has agreed to quit her job, and is currently planning on doing so in the next few weeks. I have also requested that she has a conversation with him and let him know that she is leaving to save her marriage and be with her husband. She feels that this is unnecessary and that when she leaves that will be sign enough. I told her that I don't want OM thinking that he can just try to restart the relationship when he starts to miss seeing her at work all the time. Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.


I agree with your wife on this one. No contact means no contact. If she has that "last good bye" with him it's only going to bring back up those feelings she has for him and make things worse. Not sure about the "I'm not there yet comment" though. Hope that doesn't translate into "I'm not ready to end it with him forever yet."

But good on her for agreeing to quit. It shows some commitment to the marriage on her part IMO.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

TheGoodFight said:


> I agree with your wife on this one. No contact means no contact. If she has that "last good bye" with him it's only going to bring back up those feelings she has for him and make things worse. Not sure about the "I'm not there yet comment" though. Hope that doesn't translate into "I'm not ready to end it with him forever yet."
> 
> But good on her for agreeing to quit. It shows some commitment to the marriage on her part IMO.


That is why she doesn't have contact but writes a NC letter in front of and with her husband and he sends it. Not only does it inform the AP that it is officially over but it also cements that same thought in the WS's mind. Its both functional and symbolic.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Good sign, but she's clearly still in the fog.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

steve0 said:


> my wife has agreed to quit her job, and is currently planning on doing so in the next few weeks. I have also requested that she has a conversation with him and let him know that she is leaving to save her marriage and be with her husband. She feels that this is unnecessary and that when she leaves that will be sign enough. I told her that I don't want OM thinking that he can just try to restart the relationship when he starts to miss seeing her at work all the time. Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.



No conversation is required between her and the OM nor should you encourage it. She hand writes a no contact letter that you post to him , use his work address if you must. The NC letter template letter be found in the newbie thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

* Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.*

Seriously DUDE?

Put your damn foot down.And stop letting her negotiate
The terms


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Jonesey said:


> * Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.*
> 
> Seriously DUDE?
> 
> ...


Maybe "there" for her should be out of the house and out of his life? She's the betrayer and trying to do things on her terms? Nope.


----------



## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Your wife is most likely f*cking this guy. If not, make no mistake that she will be f*cking him soon. Quit the philosophy, quit the excuse making, quit the nice guy routine. Stand up for your damn self, find out the facts and act accordingly.

If this is something you can get past, work on getting past it, starting with her getting rid of this guy RIGHT THIS SECOND. If she's not down for that, get rid of her ass.

If it's not something you can get past, stop the bleeding and make your exit from this marriage.


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Maybe "there" for her should be out of the house and out of his life? She's the betrayer and trying to do things on her terms? Nope.


Maybe,you think?


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

There's definitely a disparity in who holds power in this relationship. I sense his wife is projecting this "beggars can't be choosers" attitude to Steve.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

steve0 said:


> my wife has agreed to quit her job, and is currently planning on doing so in the next few weeks. I have also requested that she has a conversation with him and let him know that she is leaving to save her marriage and be with her husband. She feels that this is unnecessary and that when she leaves that will be sign enough. I told her that I don't want OM thinking that he can just try to restart the relationship when he starts to miss seeing her at work all the time. Unfortunately, my wife has told me that she is not prepared to have this talk with OM. "I am not there yet", is what she said to me.


Conversation???? NO NO NO AND NO. Have her write a letter saying she is leaving the job to save your marriage. Also put in that he should not try to contact her in the future by phone, email, text, Facebook, Twitter or smoke signals. Put all this into a letter that she writes - have her sign it - and you mail it to him.

Tell her that if she attempts to contact him, then its over.

Tell her that if he attempts to contact her (odds are he will) she must not respond and she must tell you about it immediately.

No damn face to face conversation where there is a tearful goodbye and one last kiss for the road - are you kidding me?


----------

