# Thank you Married Man's Sex Life!!!



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

I'll try putting links below to my saga, but I wanted to say really quickly that yesterday I read the first 4 chapters of the book of the subject of this post and started being a bit more alpha, taking charge of satisfying my wife's needs instead of acting on her spoken wants. My wife is back in love with me or something like that. We've been hugging, she's been happy. She wants to live with me in our house and get out of the lease for the apartment she was going to move in today.

Here are the links to the other threads where I've described my story, listed below in the order that I started the threads starting from the first:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-maybe-ea-my-wifes-friend-toward-my-wife.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-difference-between-loyalty-faithfulness.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/46486-e-books-any-not-scams.html

There's another thread in the private forum I won't link, those who can access it can find it from my profile. TTFN

More later, probably, but right now I have a lot to do and all of this comes before y'all, with all due respect.


----------



## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Really digging the fact that you are manning up! Its a revelation isn't it? Keep up the good work and pay attention to the sh!!t tests. Its very easy to get back into nice guy mode.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Good for you both! It can be done. Others have done it, so can you. I know I did it, and we are more in love now than we have been in years. Now you have the tools to base a loving relationship on. Keep with it, don't slide backwards. Good luck to both of you.


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

You're welcome! Great job. Thanks for the shout out.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Atholk said:


> You're welcome! Great job. Thanks for the shout out.


I really need to expand on it, now that I'm awake and my wife has gone to bed... Truth be told, I would have gone to bed too, but my daughter is still awake from going to the bathroom and it's interfering with the tooth fairy making a visit for my son. So I have a little time to write some more.

To put my original post in context, we woke up at 6:15 AM this morning. Soon after, the kids woke up. Friday night I was up until 1:30 AM (which I guess would be yesterday morning if you want to get technical) reading MMSL. The post was made at 8:35, and in between there was the time of everybody showering and the breakfast and so forth, but I had my talk as a result of MMSL with my wife first thing.

Here's the state of things yesterday: The plan was still that my wife was going to move into the apartment today. We had moved most of the stuff, today was to have been the last trip with stuff then me assembling Ikea furniture. My wife was softening up, and even though we agreed and knew that the things that wearing a wedding ring symbolized were not there for her, she would wear it for its deterent affect against anyone else trying to make a move on her. She still wanted to go through a week, but it sounded like she was starting to fall back in love with me and she'd let me back in to live with her in the apartment at the end of the week. Remember, this was the state of the relationship yesterday - this is history to give context to what happenned today and how much things changed.

As I said, I did my reading last night. EVERYTHING made perfect sense to me. I felt more confident in knowing exactly what to do, and as anxious as I was to have my talk with my wife, I knew that waking her up to talk about it would've been stupid, and I was fine with that - I slept well. I expected to have the talk, and my goal was to live in the apartment with my wife.

So here's what happenned this morning. I had my talk, and I said things like I realize I need to take charge, I simply don't like you moving away from me, I see now that she needs me to take charge and by her moving away from me, she's denying me the opportunity to demonstrate the changes I need to make... I read this book, I understand now, there's hormones involved and I've been trying to do what she wants but I've misunderstood what she needs. Yada yada yada. 

I think maybe the fact that it is the day her period started might make it a bit of a low in her cycle, with that said, she started crying and saying how she feels so embarassed about getting the apartment and stuff. Remember, my goal was moving with her. I didn't make and demands, just an objection. She said she doesn't want to move to the apartment!

So I squeezed a quick post in just to say what a change had happenned, but that was just the start of the day. I knew I had a lot to do moving her stuff back out and so forth - which that wasn't so bad, I spent more time at Comcast to return the cable self-install kit than it took loading things from the apartment.

She let me put her wedding ring on her finger, the phrase I love you came back, all day she welcomed and responded positively to every touch and grope I gave her. She was taking my compliments, listening... She was no longer slinging one request after another at me, she was happy and smiling, she was taking on the requests of the kids when I was already on another task (where before, she'd be directing them towards me in spite of my full taskload) 

And at the end of the day, we sat on the couch to watch a show, she sat a little closer than she had been. I started touching her feet and legs, which is not something she had tolerated when tired. She leaned up against me and let me hold her tight. She let me run my hands all over her body and instead of rejecting me, she moaned in delight.

She asked me if I wanted to stay up reading more. I think she likes it. Not that I have to think, I asked if she liked the change I've made, but it wasn't so much an answer of yes as an answer of "mmmmm" 

The only point that wasn't positive beyond all expectations was talking about plans with the house. She still doesn't like it of course, and she tried to get the suggestion in that we need to sell the house and buy another one. I took it as an opportunity, and told her I recognize her need for a better living setting and it is MY job to take care of that. I told her that I am so happy to have her back, and there is a lot to deal with for that - beyond that I said I don't foresee having time today to do any planning for housing, but I assured her that I am her man and I will take care of her needs, let me be the one to make the plan of how we do that.

So at any rate... enough time passed, I think the tooth fairy is going to make the rounds. And going forward, I think I'm going to be enjoying thoroughly going to bed at the end of the day with my wife.

As I told her, of course this isn't just about sex - this is about my joy in having back the woman who to me is like a Ferrari among women and the fact that I get to spend my life now in my proper role as the man in her life. (that got another "mmmm")


----------



## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

Good job, WillK! :smthumbup: And all the best for the new start!


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

WillK said:


> *She let me put her wedding ring on her finger*,
> 
> As I told her, of course this isn't just about sex - this is about my joy in having back the woman who to me is like a Ferrari among women and the fact that I get to spend my life now in my proper role as the man in her life. (that got another "mmmm")


Good news! Wings for everybody!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## happymrs (May 1, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> First I want to acknowledge Atholk's book the Married Man's Sex Life Primer.
> After posting on TAM for over 6 months,
> I can say that I have read so many success stories in regard
> to men putting to practice the teaches of this book.
> ...


I know what your talking about from the other side. Life after applying MMSL is far different than before. 

Over the past year I do feel 'on edge' (for lack of a better term) in my marriage. It's not a bad thing, just a constant reminder to me how I need to treat my husband. 

For most of our marriage it really didn't matter to me what he thought about my attitude or behaviors, but now he's different. I guess I'm different too. Our marriage is far different than it's ever been. I love the relationship we have and I don't want to mess it up. 

I know I'm being gamed, and it doesn't bother me. Sometimes I do feel bad to think that maybe to him it may feel like more work than it should be to keep what we have, but then marriage is work. Anything worth having or keeping is going to take work. I just try not to make it too much of a burden for him. Some days are easier than others. 

My hope is that he will always feel that the rewards far outweigh the efforts.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Seems as good a place as any to continue my story. So we've gotten back together since last Saturday and now it's Tuesday. She continues to express concern about me relapsing into my old ways.

My reading, at this point, is actually only just starting to get into the MAP chapter. I turned things around in weeks, if you count the time I worked on it before I heard of the book, and overnight if you only think about the time from when I read the book and had the particular epiphany about my lack of alpha behavior. I was a bit surprised when I started reading about a turn-around time in terms of months.

But maybe it's because there are some atypicallities about us or something. She's in good shape, I've got some extra weight. I'm sure I attract her a great deal because of my beta qualities. I recon I maintained my ranking through the course of our relationship by the confidence I gained offsetting the weight I gained, so reversing the weight gain wasn't a necessary component of getting my wife back. It'd probably help though. But the problem is finding time for that and I'd have to sacrafice some beta behavior most likely.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi Will, 
It is an epiphany. I'm at it about 5 months now. In the first months my DW was suspicious of how long I could keep it up too. I found the ideas to be so rational and simple. Thus making it easy to incorporate into behavior, as they are only common sense. 
Wish I had this information years ago. She joined in, as she realized she was reaping the benefits. Now we are moving at light speeds. A good marriage is worth the work and the work brings it's rewards. 
Bully for you. One foot in front of the other. Stay the course. You will both see results as you go. Always glad to hear about other's success. 
When you finish MMSL, here are two others. She can join in on these too. 
1) The Five Love Languages by Chapman, Gary
2) His Needs, Her Needs by Harley, Willard F. Jr.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Yep, those were the other 2 I bought which were at the top of my list... I bought 5 love languages first because it was available at my grocery store I went to at 1 AM, and just reading the table of contents gave me some helpful insight. I read MMSL first because it wasn't in stoke according to the online info at B&N so I bought it as an e-book at 11 PM and started reading.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

So at this point I've read up to chapter 11 Behavior Modification but haven't started reading the chapter. I am feeling like after reading chapter 10, I've been through a LOT of testing.

In fact, I think a brief synopsis of what I've been through is in order to frame my next comment.. I lost my previous job March 30 and since then my wife was wanting to seperate - she had a plan which would've had her out in April with an apartment that was immediately available, but after filling out the credit app I gained her sympathy and she changed her mind... After which she changed her mind again, began collecting furniture and placed a deposit. She took possession and was to move in last Saturday May 19, but I read MMSL and it turned around instantly and I moved what had already been moved in, we cancelled the rent and set up a payment plan for the cancellation charges (60 days rent), cancelled cable, returned furniture, etc... She was on her period so it delayed the resumption of sex until yesterday, which was great, but affection resumed immediately and in ways that exceed anything she'd ever been affectionate towards me in as long as I can remember.

Along with all this, there had been a suspected EA. Along the way she was open enough about it and responded appropriately to my concerns, and I stopped being suspicious. Knowing what I know now, I would say the guy was never an orbiter if that.

What I'm also realizing after this evening's reading is the question that prompts this post.. I feel a bit uneasy about this. Looking back, I think the apartment was never about an EA, it was a test. I see now that she's been testing me for years, and it's been escalating to this. For the longest time she's made so many requests that she could've done herself... long-time things like asking me to get snacks as I am trying to settle down to watch TV with her after the kids go to bed, up more recently to disrupting work sessions with trivial requests she could do herself, all the way up to "I'm moving out - ILYBINILWY - you need to take charge, but nothing will change my mind I need to do this for me to grow as a person."

All of the sudden the day I was going to help her move out, I said "look, I realize you need me to take charge. I can't accept you moving out. I can't start taking charge if you're physically away from me. I should come with you." And all the testing stopped. Immediately. Completely. She gets up and gets her own stuff now. If I am eating breakfast, she will take on the kids requests and tell them to let daddy finish his breakfast.

I've been enjoying this immensely but until this evening's reading I didn't give a thought to what was behind the transformation. Armed with the understanding I have now, I find myself having a hard time resisting the urge to feel kind of betrayed... I could stand some opinions on what to do with this feeling, my natural inclination is to comfort myself with the knowledge I'd probably get over it and forgive her. But I suspect that is the beta in me, and it isn't necessarily the best approach if I want to keep up the alpha behavior I started and which has reignited my wife.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

I'm just going to use this thread as a bit of a running journal of how the "New WillK" and my marriage is going.

That's something of a term that became apparent this morning, that I need to make a clear distinction to my wife between the Old Me and the New Me.

During the first few days after I started being more in charge, I think the transformation in how she responded was beyond my expectations, but looking back there was clearly an excitement there that was almost as if she had an adrenaline surge.

Like an adrenaline surge, it only lasts so long. I don't know if it's coincidence and the surge wore off due to the passage of time or if there is a connection - I suppose it doesn't matter - but I might have mentioned that we did a lot of touching and I enjoyed it, but held off on sex because of her period until Monday night.

I'm a lot surprised that she did as much reverting as she did... Not that it isn't understandable, but I do know her patters well enough to know that the week after is normally her peak within the cycle, so to speak. 

To make matters worse, I've had ED issues and I take Cialis. When I first started I had a 10 mg prescription, but that was a problem because it caused joint pain. So I went to my doc, to my mild irritation he was clueless so I had to take the lead and suggest stepping down the dosage to 5 mg. That worked, but I started running low last week.. I started calling the office to get a prescription refill.. They didn't return messages. I am out. I called yesterday and my wife told me how to get to a person, I spoke to a person, and the day ended without a prescription called in. I gota refill on my 10 mg prescription.

So I'm having joint pain today but I'm ready to go.

Problem now is that she has slid back a bit. Here's the tricky thing about making this change... She reacts to me now that the euphoria is worn off from the change as if I'm still the Old Me.

So... we had another tense conversation, and I let her know that I do want her but I understand that there's a long history that makes it natural to respond as if I'm still Old Me, but the fact that I want her is not an obligation. 

I also reminded her that the Old Me she was worried about was one that pressured her for sex and didn't pay attention to anything else - and although that was never the real me, I recognize that my behavior created that impression to her. I pointed out that the New Me is a whole package, and I'm stepping up with discipline with the kids and taking charge of making date night start again, and that I am in charge and thus don't need her trying to take charge by telling me to not be late for work.. I also have been making changes to live a more healthy lifestyle and that's a change she had even acknowledged this morning.

As you can see it's a lot of work, and the quick results I had were initial and it does take more work to make a change - it's not just a sprint, it's a marathon.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Two steps forward, 1/2 step back, Will. It's still early. My W's euphoria was over my recognition that I had to change. I'm sure your wife is doing the same. When I found my W suspect of my changes, I reassured her with actions. She responded positively to that. She took a few months to stop the preemptive reminders about my behaviors (love buster). Now, she only does that when she is stressed about something other than our marriage. I let that go now. 
I figured out what her love languages/emotional nees are and emphasized my actions toward them. I also increased the hours per week I gave her UA time. That worked to fill her love bank, and she felt reassured this was going to continue. Still it's a work in progress and I know now it will continue. Why? The rewards are so desirable, I will never go with out them again.
Oh yeah, that little pill does help relationship, where no book can. 
Keep at it, you'll get there.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

I'm taking a proactive approach, I've been texting her this morning. The theme is that Old Me was boring, New Me is exciting - this is how I plan to excite you tonight, and if you want to miss out, that's ok.

I also figured that once I sent the text with the plan, I'd leave it as she can spend all day thinking about it, but I cut her off before she could say no with a change of subject... Which was to ask about the kids when she dropped them off for school, setting up another response from me where I can tell her my action plan for our son's behavior at school - which was the reason for my asking for her feedback about how they were when they dropped her off.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Whew... what a day!

So first of all I had asked her to go to lunch with me at Panera (now I work within a few miles of where she works) and she said yes, even though she already had a lunch with her that she had packed! So that was like a date after she'd spent the morning responding well to texting. 

Then, she mentioned her mom was letting her out of work an hour early, so I knew she'd be home with a little time before she had to pick up the kids. I got out of work a little early, I half wanted to surprise her but texted as I was leaving my intentions (knowing she probably would be sitting on te couch without her phone, and thus might not get my texts.) My intention was to go home and just get a 10 second kiss from her before we went to pickup the kids.

Nope, she wanted what I was planning for after the kids went to bed, and she didn't want to wait. Who am I to say no to my wife submitting to more than I planned?

So then we went through with my plan to catch our son's teacher to make sure he was behaving himself (I had taken charge of coming up with a discipline plan to turn around some disruptive behavior he had earlier in the week during class). The report was good.

So the next plan was to order pizza, eat, go to a science museum, get home, interview a babysitter, get the kids ready for bed. It all went like clockwork.

After the kids went to bed... I asked my wife if she would still like to follow through on the after-the-kids-go-to-bed plans I texted earlier. I was expecting the afternoon romp might have done it for her and she wouldn't be ready for another. To my enjoyment, I was wrong. 


So it's worth sharing more than just story. There are points I feel the need to make. This of course isn't just about sex, it's about an attitude change and it's repaired problems in my relationship with the entire family.

Here's the funny thing.. After we were done tonight, I tried explaining what I was doing all day to my wife. She said "or maybe I was just in the mood". It's a very relevant point, she's right, and I can't make her have sex with me any day. But I do have plenty of control over my own actions, and there is a lot I can do that gets her in the mood.


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

So. Saturday, May 26, marked 1 week as the New Me, so today would be 10 days. The initial eupohoria, particularly in my wife, has scaled back and maybe this is the part where I found out on a deeper level how my changes will play out long term. I am also learning that I'm still learning.

So that last post I made was on Thursday of last week reporting on a good day I had Weds. Thursday I just kept up the New Will but didn't even try for anything in bed. Friday I started trying and long story short it didn't happen until yesterday.

So, it would seem my wife still responds to me based on the Old Me. I don't blame her and I recognize that it will take commitment and hard work to keep up the New Me until she responds as if I am the New Me instead of Old Me. It makes it harder because while she had the euphoria of seeing the change, her response really was nice to experience and that was a motivator for me to have made the change... Her reversion to treating me like the Old Me, I now realize, has the effect of triggering the responses in me that made me act as I did when I was the Old Me. I recognize that now, and that realization is how I break the cycle - but I really could use here help.

Here's an example.. The intimacy situation would be obvious, so I'll go for another one. I've mentioned that the condition of our house has been a source of anxiety for her, and I've been working on trying to rebuild the house. Taking a break from that to spend time with her instead of working on the house has been something that's worked positively to turn things around. She's spoken that she still needs the house done, and I've told her I recognize her needs and she should trust me to figure out how it needs to be done - she wanted to have contractors tear the whole thing down and build new. She doesn't care how it's done, the end result matters, so it's my job to figure out the best method - I need to run the numbers but I suspect that there are pieces of the house it would be best to keep... Just running the numbers is itself a monumental task, and I have no intention of putting the stabilization of our relationship on hold to execute that exhaustive task when this is something that at the soonest would start in the summer of next year.

Throughout this weekend, she's become more and more obsessed with the idea that the house needs to be remodelled - she's becoming anxious, she's trying to direct my activity. Yesterday she was obsessed with directing me to clean up the kids bedroom because it was a source of anxiety and too overwhelming for her to do. I stuck with my plan, I had decided to build a deck off our back door because there's an area our dog keeps digging up, and the deck would cover that area, bridge an area that tends to get muddy and prevent a lot of dirt from tracking into the house (a source of anxiety for her). Plus it was a task that I could step away from when needed, and it was a task I could finish in just a few hours.

As promised, I did her cleanup task, but I did it on my terms after the deck was done. She was happy. I think the things I did right were let her know her needs would be met, and how.

This morning she was agitated from the start. At this point I started suspecting she was subconsciously testing me... She was anxious and blaming the house again. As I said, this is the kind of behaviour that drove the Old Me to approach the house remodelling the way the Old Me did it - which was not good for my relationship with my wife.

I pointed out to her that the way she was acting is what drove the Old Me to act the way the Old Me used to act. I continued to assert to her that I will need to run the numbers to determine the best course of action, and that won't happen until the relationship is better stabilized.

It also occurred to me that her complaints were completely unrelated to remodelling the house. She was complaining about the condition of the kids room, toys all over the place, building materials she wanted out. So I pointed out to her that remodelling the house has nothing to do with her complaints, but the actions that do fix her complaints actually are already on my mental to-do list... for example, she complained about how the walls look.. which will be fixed when we do the work as a family as I already requested for Father's Day. Clutter will be reduced from moving out a large piece of furniture we've had listed on craigslist. There are 4 rolls of insulation waiting on me to put it in our attic, so that's an evening I can take care of but it just hasn't been at the top of the list.

I think maybe one focus that would help in terms of our MT is dealing with her anxiety. I think I'm starting to get the kids to be less out of control... but when I have to step away, she has a short fuse. Sometimes she gets frustrated and reacts and they respond, but other times it seems to show the kids that she doesn't have control and they have the power to frustrate her. 

I gave her a dare to not over-react when frustrated, and I realized a little something too for me to work on - I need to work on a better way of communicating my concerns with her behavior. (As a slightly related aside, I finished MMSL yesterday and need to move on to my next book. Leaning towards 5 love languages.) I think her love language is affirmations. Criticisms come across to her as speaking negatively in her love language.

Next thing I think I'd like to ask her about is what life with her mom was like, in particular how it influenced her to feel so anxious when there is disorder... I wonder if she might become more relaxed if we explore that and consider whether those stressors really exist in our family.


----------



## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Sounds like you are juggling a lot! I've been there... Take my advice here, I know she wants the whole thing done and over with and it's not in the cards, I assume you want it done as well. Take on no more than two projects, one that you can handle by yourself and another you need help with. Designate a storage area to not clutter things up. Assign her tasks painting decorating etc.. And trust her decisions, make her stick to a budget and make her budget 2/3rds of what you want her to spend. Start with things that will earn you points and are low lying fruits/easy tasks. So that easy steady progress is made and she can see many final products. Eventually she will trust your decisions... And they will turn her on! Keep plugging away! I was there once too and my dad was sleeping on the couch for 6 mos! Talk about unhappy!


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement, what you're describing is pretty close to how I am trying to approach the situation and I am glad to have some validation that I'm on the right track. The deck was exactly the kind of project I needed, I picked up materials, used them up and finished in one day.

Right now, I think my project focus (on a general basis) needs to be on wrapping up things already started. Put the insulation into the attic, drywall finishing then paint.. those probably make the next 2 projects, and it fits pretty well with what you described - the insulation I'd do, and the drywall and paint stuff I can do with my wife's help (I haven't gotten her to do much, but she did this same stuff together with me when we did our own bedroom)


----------



## WillK (May 16, 2012)

I feel like I should start these entries with "Dear diary,"

Well. I think I learned something new yesterday. My wife just doesn't find me attractive because I've put on a few pounds. I weigh 218 lbs at 6 feet tall, there was a time when I was around 180 lbs. I think I've been up and down some, and going back down has been a thing that happens when my achalasia condition gets to a point where I'm having difficulty swallowing food and I really start eating less because I don't want to choke while eating.

Anyway, I realized that all these years, besides our other issues, my wife just has become less attracted me because I've been getting less attractive and she's been staying the same. I never realized it because she never wanted to hurt my feelings, and so she never said anything. When I asked her point blank, she said she didn't want to say anything because (besides not wanting to hurt my feelings) she felt it would be shallow to let a little weight gain result in being less attracted to me.

I genuinely think I allowed myself to believe that she didn't care about the fact I've gained a little weight, that she just didn't care. I've never been a 10, I've known that, and at my best in terms of self esteem I had no difficulty just saying "I'm probably basicly average, and that's enough for me to just not dwell on it and stop the cycle of self-depreciation I had when I did have low self esteem."

ETA: Another thing that helps this issue make sense, my wife has responded to my change in attitude and she has told me that she wants to want me.

So... I'm open to criticism, and it makes a lot of sense. I'd get myself into better shape to increase her attraction to me, and it makes it more understandable why she's LD. It also motivates me more on things she needed me to do that were already in my plan - we have this giant castle bed in our kids room that I built, it's been on craigslist and the idea is the kids are sleeping in a simpler bunk bed to declutter, when the castle is gone the kids want their toys in their bedroom...

This will free up a room downstairs and I can get a treadmill off craigslist and start exercising...

I don't know if I mentioned this, but I've already been implementing plans to cut out my soda consumption and replace it with juice and seltzer water, and I've already cut back on breakfast and lunch portions.

Being that my wife's lack of attraction is more understandable, frankly it makes it a little easier for me to back off until I gain attractiveness to her and she gains some drive without me having to pressure her... In the meantime, I'll probably get more used to a more balanced sexuality so if her drive only increases a little or stays where it is - maybe I'll be better able to live with it. Either way, I don't see anything to lose.


----------



## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

Opening lines of communication and acting on constructive criticism... Good job!!


----------

