# I need help here :/



## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Ok this is kind of complicated. But a while back i noticed this guy from my wifes work was always talking to her or messaging her on fb. Nothing really inappropriate just flirting with little insults and stuff like that. Then it just kept getting more frequent and I found out she gave him her number. I saw it on a phone bill and immediately went to detective work to pull up erased text messages. Again nothing inappropriate just mild flirting, but my wife was doing it too kind of. I told my wife about it and i said that it pisses me off and i didnt want her talking to the guy outside of work. She immediately blew up at me calling me psychotic and nothing going on. So got through that and it started up again a week or so later and again i brought it up and she flipped out and said she was wrong and wouldnt do it again. However of course again i find out thats not the case. Its not whats in the context of the message its just becoming to frequent and this is a single guy tlaking to a married woman. Shes been telling him that she shouldnt talk to him because i might be tracking her, but she still continues to do it. This guy has made me into this insecure ahole that i dont trust my wife at all and feel the need to monitor her. She insisits theres nothing going on but it just irritates the living hell out of me. I need help here? Do i just drop it and be naive about it? what do i do?


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## ruga2402 (Sep 22, 2012)

I would approach him about it. It will either help him realize that it is considered inappropiate by you or challenge him to do it more.(which could be bad) However if your wife is truely trust worthy then she will then begin to see his advances for what they are. Also, she needs to understand that you are not comfortable with her dialogue with him and accept your feelings on the matter and stop. There is no reason for her to continue once you have made your feelings known. Thats my take on it.


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## DH1971 (Sep 15, 2012)

VAR. Even if nothing has happened yet, it will soon if you don't put a stop to it. Heavy-duty velcro under her seat and a Sony voice recorder from Walmart $59. It's the best one and has noise reduction. Women always talk to the OM while driving.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

yea i know she sent him a message about me kicking his ass. He didnt really say anything but he sends her messages like oh this message is gonna get u in trouble isnt it? He just doesnt stop. I'm telling her tomorrow if she doesnt cut if off, i will.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Am i really acting crazy here? I mean it bothers me that she thinks im over the top with my tracking. But everytime i do it i come up with something. Im just curious what others think. I should say that i was texting another girl that i knew from hs a while back about problems i was having in my marriage. I never met up or hung out with her but my wife flipped out, almost divorced me, but i immediately stopped talking to the girl because of how upset it made her. Now i feel shes doing the same thing, but she just doesnt stop and she sees this dude everyday. I should mention hes only 19 and my wife is in her late 20's which is weird enough.


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## ruga2402 (Sep 22, 2012)

I would bring up how you stopped in a instant to make r
her rest easy and ask why she won't do the same here. Not crazy either, if you gut tells you and you look and find hidden messages and flirtatious contexts, its inappropiate period. She should understand that and stop.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Is your wife still going out with her work friends for late night drinks? If so,is he one of them?


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## RJB (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm currently going through a very similar situation, and I think the best thing you can do is the VAR. I don't think you're wrong for monitoring her. If she has already lied to you multiple times about stopping, can you believe that they're _just_ friends? or that she will _actually_ stop talking to him?


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

No she stopped going out to bars after work after me finally talking some sense into her about how much it was bothering me. However, she constantly gives me grief about it saying i make her a caged animal, she never gets to do anything, always making me feel bad. I dont go out either, like i said, im a cop, i dont have time to do anything, but it doesnt bother me, im happiest when im with the wife and our daughter. RJB- i know he just went through a breakup and my wife said she was "helping" him through it. She says she has lots of guy friends at work but this is the only one she texts and talks to outside of work. She immediately focuses the blame on me when i confront her. Its always well you dont do this, youre an insecure *******, you dont show me u love me. Things were getting really good between us until i found out she was tlaking to this guy. It totally tears me apart inside and i just cant act the same around her.
sorry for the poor grammar, im pissed off right now and typing really fast haha.


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## ruga2402 (Sep 22, 2012)

I get you, I'm in the Army. While my issue is a little more severe than yours in actions. Comfort levels are the same. You are not comfortable with it and that should be enough. Why does she text with him and not the other guy friends. Why is he more special. She actually encourages him by stating that you are checking up on the conversations they are having and she is also telling him that she doesn't care because she keeps it going. She shouldn't be telling him he "should stop" she should be saying "STOP". Why does your showing her that you love her even relevant when you discuss this. Guilt??? Maybe. Defense Mechanism??? But why the thought of your love being questioned?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> She immediately focuses the blame on me when i confront her. Its always well you dont do this, youre an insecure *******, you dont show me u love me.


You're to blame for what? This sounds like she did or is doing something she knows isn't right.jmo


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Marriage counseling. 

You might also want to mention how she acted in a similar scenario but I doubt she would listen. Don't let her away with calling you controlling or insecure a*shole


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Yea i was thinking about marriage counseling. Its just hard when we cant sit and talk like notmal people. I get overrun with emotion, she flips out, we dont talk the rest of the day. I think the only way is for me to confront this douche
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> yea i know she sent him a message about me kicking his ass. He didnt really say anything but he sends her messages like oh this message is gonna get u in trouble isnt it? He just doesnt stop. I'm telling her tomorrow if she doesnt cut if off, i will.


Little digs are called negs in the pua community. It is part of the seduction.

He is actibely working against you. By him telling her she is going to be in trouble and so on.

Essentially she is being unfaithful now. It was just inapproiate at the beginning but now that they are trying to hide it and she is confiding in another man where they cut you down this is unfaithful.

Me? I shut it down now. It is already too far. If she cannot stop it which it sounds like she either cannot or will not this means she will need to go NC and that means she will need to change jobs.

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The above comment was BEFORE looking over your previous threads. So she is just pushing her boundaries and seems to want to be a bit of a party girl. I suspect that she has resentment over all of this and may be acting out. Was she a party girl when you married her?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You are gonna get nowhere with this, if you bring it up, and then let it slide, cuz she obviously isn't taking you seriously

3 times now she has defied you---and her crap about you being controlling, or not letting her do what she pleases, is answered with---YOU ARE PROTECTING YOUR MGE, from a preditor, who is trying to get into her sexually, in a moment of weakness----that is how these PUA, work

Your wife obviously does not know the definition of mge---a properly married woman, is F'ing HAPPY, to come home every night to her family, and that is what your wife should be doing---ALL HER FRIENDS PUT TOGETHER COME SECOND TO HER FAMILY

You tell her very simply w/out any shouting screaming or anything else, that either she stops of her free will, or she can go and live with this 19 yr old, cuz you will be happy to set her free

Believe me the last thing she wants is the reality of being dumped out on her own

This 19 year old is showing her attention, and throwing out the forbidden notes, and its exciting to her----BUT IT HAS TO STOP

If necessary, tell her if she won't stop, and wants to stay married she quits the job she is in

Also send the 19 yr old a registered letter telling him, you will sue him for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, tell him this letter is his notice that if he allows your wife to contact with him in any way, shape or form, or he iniates contact, ONE MORE TIME---you will file the civil suit---hopefully, that will wake his little a*s up and make him think about, flirting with your wife vs. what is in his wallet, and he will leave your wife alone

No matter what do not back down to your wife on this situation, for if you do, she will percieve you as weak, and do it again, with someone else


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Yea its sad that it has to come to this. I feel i cant win, she wants me to be a better husband but im inhibited by her actions. I cant just suck it up and treat her the way she wants because its a two way street. She always manages to make me feel like the ahole at the end of our argument :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

A-Hole: a guy who does not lie down when the wife wants to do something inappropriate.

Okay.

I said this on another thread and I'll suggest it here.

Scenario One: Is there a company email? Can you do a company wide email through her account? If so, send this:

"Hello. This is Gizmo04. Marty McFly and Glorybee Roundheels (Mrs. Gizmo04) have been sending seeking an unprofessional relationship. Call 555-Gzmo if you see them behaving in an inappropriate fashion for my legal records. Your information will be kept confidential."

Do not expect her to like it.

No email?

Scenario 2: Walk into her work in the middle of the day, be VISIBLE to both her and Lothario. Get a meeting set up with her HR head and her Boss. Have copies of the texts and mention you don't particularly appreciate you wife working on a burdgeoning romance instead of actually, you know, work. Ask that IT check her company emails for inappropriate texts or emails on the company dime and you'd appreciate it if they weren't ever near each other. 

Also suggest that if there is any downsizing in the company, you could think of one or two names you'd like added to the list pronto. You realize that they are not in the fidelity business but they should be made aware of any crap which conflicts with their codes of conduct. You aren't sure what other legal remedies you might pursue, but if she continues keeping in touch with him, they (HR and Boss) can at the very least expect to be deposed in a divorce action.

They have the private space at work where they can cop a feel and play their little games safely. You need to remove that.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I just wrote on another thread how opp sex relationships are dangerous. I wrote, "she said Oh he just broke up with his girlfriend and he needs a shoulder to cry on"

Its a red flag. 

No more arguing, that will have the opposite effect.
No more badgering either. Never beg it makes you look weak and unattractive.

You need to be strong and confident, no begging or fearfulness.
Be a little aloof, cool, but open and approachable. Let her wounder what you are up to. If she asks, tell her your eyes are being opened but you cant say any more right now.

If she notices you are not fighting she may feel insecure
This may cause her to try to get reassurance from you.

Tell her you will address it soon.

If there are unresolves sources of bitterness or resentment try to remove those by showing true remorse, ask forgiveness. If she has been asking you to listen or work on some problems do it without explaining why.

This is just groundwork for you relationship. You should take this serious!

Use the fear, jealously and anger to fight for you relationship, do not direct them at her.

You have to take action and not just become a weak whining husband.

You have to try and address the holes in your marriage without looking really needy. Its ok to be genuine and confident.

Keep snooping but do not confront every time you find somthing. You may have to take firm action soon. Save what you find for a shock and awe exposure. And DO NOT reveal you sources to her!!!

If you get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and put it in her car or somewhere in the house where she talks on phone, dont give a up the source!

Dont go runnung to her with every bit of evidence.
key loggers for PC and phones,Phone logs, emails, can you track her phone with gps?

If this man is criticizing you he is an enemy of your marriage.
She may already be fantasizing about being with him, woman are nuture prone and he is shareing his emotions.
If she is confiding in him about your marriage she is being disloyal.

If she notices some changes in you that she likes tell her you want to be a better husband for her, maybe that would be a good point to suggest marriage counseling.

You have to play this to win!!

I'm sure there will be more help forthcomming, keep posting

This sounds like the start of an Emotional Affair (EA) these are very damaging to a woman, they become addicted and torn in their emtions and very conflicted. She will be badly hurt. As her husband you must act for her good, while keeping your dignity.

Try to read some of the other posts on here about EA and coping with infidelity.

Take care!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Read this newbie thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Here are some threads on EA

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54243-im-wife-emotional-affair.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/29380-im-having-emotional-affair.html

Find some others here and read!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

B O U N D A R I E S

It's cool for my wife to talk to the neighbor, workmate, casual friend *all day long *about: landscaping, gardening, car woes, child rearing, client meetings, etc. 

It's not cool, not even for one minute, to: flirt, talk about sex, talk about our intimate times, talk about her fantasies. 

Bottom line: if it would embarrass her to have the transcript of the convo sent to her family and co-workers to see then_ it was inappropriate_. 

Oh, same holds for me.


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## husbandfool (May 20, 2012)

find out this guys home address and send him an anonymous note in the mail saying simply .... "you are being watched!"


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> I should say that i was texting another girl that i knew from hs a while back about problems i was having in my marriage. *I never met up or hung out with her but my wife flipped out, almost divorced me, but i immediately stopped talking to the girl because of how upset it made her. Now i feel shes doing the same thing*, but she just doesnt stop and she sees this dude everyday.


Now its time to show your wife the same solution she showed you. Tell if she continues disrespect you and the marriage then its time for a divorce. Its obvious the other man is more important to her then you. Tell her your not going to put up with her Bull$&!t period. If she thinks your soooo controlling, Then its time so set her free.



> Its always well you dont do this, youre an insecure *******, you dont show me u love me.


Mention this to her, "If I don't show you I love you, Is that why you talk to him because he does????"


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Listen my friend this has already started. 

There absolutely is already something going on by virtue of the fact that your wife does not want to stop it even though she knows how much it is obviously hurting you - she's already descended or began her descent into 'the fog' 

She is making a big big decision here and you need to see it for exactly what it is, which is , she knows this is hurting you and and is consciously deciding to ignore that extremely important fact - and go ahead with her affair

That already shows little respect or consideration for you 

Having been there many times with my stbxw and NOT had the benefit of this brilliant site I'd cut to the chase, not ***** foot around and straight in her face tell her in no uncertain terms that if she sees him again she's headed for the divorce court quick and if she really wants to put your marriage to that kind of test then by all means carry on 

In the nicest way you have a grow a pair and quick or she'll walk all over you and slice you into emotional pieces.

You may not want to believe any of this but trust me this site TAM is about become one of the biggest friends offering you the best advice you're ever going to have

Good Luck


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Yea i appreciate all the support, we have the next few days off together, ill let u all know how it goes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Your wife is disrespecting you.
You asked her to stop, she agreed but still continued.
In fact she also lied.
What this guy is doing is seducing her bit, by bit. 
He's driving a wedge between you and her,and she is on his side.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Yea i still gotta figure out how to approach this, you all have good ideas. I know i need to be a better husband but we were working on it when i found out she was talkin to this kid, it tore down everything. I want to say stop this or its over, but i also want to fix it. Its a very difficult decision 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Did you confront this kid face to face???? Confront him in person (wear your uniform?)And tell him "You better leave my wife alone, you think this is a [email protected]#king game, playtime is over" (or whatever threatening phrases cops use)............ Just a thought

IMHO, Ultimately there has to be a line drawn where you'll have to be prepared for a Divorce. Her actions cannot continue if you hope to have a successful marriage. If she knows there aren't any real consequences to her actions then she'll feel "free" to continue. If MC doesn't work and the threat of divorce doesn't stop her then the marriage was doomed regardless. I hope for the best.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

But tbh in my experience this is about the wife not the OM doesn't matter a jot who the other man is - if the wife is clued up about respect and boundaries she simply doesn't go there period

imo


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> Yea i still gotta figure out how to approach this, you all have good ideas. I know i need to be a better husband but we were working on it when i found out she was talkin to this kid, it tore down everything. I want to say stop this or its over, but i also want to fix it. Its a very difficult decision
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe but to focus on 'this kid' is the wrong direction imo you want to "fix" it then getting things clear with your wife is everything and laying down the law about what she can and cannot do is paramount imo and that is a major part of fixing it


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## TroubledInMI (Sep 4, 2012)

Welcome, and I'm sorry you're here.



Gizmo04 said:


> Nothing really inappropriate just flirting
> *He's single, she's not, so is that appropriate?*
> 
> Then it just kept getting more frequent and I found out she gave him her number.
> ...


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

So we've talked a little today and to her it seems like nothi gs going on, she acts like everythings fine. If i bring it up shes always accused me of just looking to fight because im incapable of being happy or some crap. So i dont even know how to approach it. Weve only talked through text so far because this is something i want to do face to face but im dreading another fight about it. Any tips on how to approach this later?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> So we've talked a little today and to her it seems like nothi gs going on, she acts like everythings fine. If i bring it up shes always accused me of just looking to fight because im incapable of being happy or some crap. So i dont even know how to approach it. Weve only talked through text so far because this is something i want to do face to face but im dreading another fight about it. Any tips on how to approach this later?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you fear the fight, you'll lose.

You set up your strategy, you set up some INCREDIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTIONS and you resign yourself that your BIG BAD WIFE will yell at you.

Man up a little. You have the moral high ground here.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm sorry to say this but your wife is having an EA. She has no business as a married woman texting other men and flirting with them. Why don't you say to her that all the time she is wasting with the OM could be time you two could be spending together.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Boundaries.....

Your wife lies to you... That crosses a boundary of trust

Your wife talks crap about you to another man...boundary

Your wife. Accepts another man talk crap about you...woud she accept another jan talking crap about her? No she wouldn't.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Have you seen the guy? Is he good looking? What if he's just a geeky super nice guy who doesn't stand a chance with her? You need to know what you're dealing with.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

I think hes not attractive at all, but who knows what she thinks. The problem is she doesnt seem to think shes doing anything wrong and it baffles me. I'm debating letting her read all of this to see that its pretty unanimous on here about her being wrong. MC is definitely a possibility if she fails to realize her actions are doing a lot of harm. I'm a big advocate of men and women not being able to be friends because of this, and i know how i use to be. She doesnt understand this. It's like shes getting back at me for talking to another woman about our marital problems. Difference is, i admitted what i was doing was wrong and immediately cut off all communication. Yet she still brings it up all the time as a rebuttal. Tomorrow is when were off all day together so ill be able to talk. Its not that im afraid to fight, I just want it to be a normal conversation to talk about it. I argue all day with criminals at work, i dont need that SH** at home.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Have you seen the guy? Is he good looking? *What if he's just a geeky super nice guy who doesn't stand a chance with her?* You need to know what you're dealing with.


You would be seriously surprised how little OM´s looks means 
when it comes to cheating


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I just want to warn you how dangerous and damaging an EA is to a woman's emotional state.

If your under-age son or daughter was going to drink a beer out with friends you would be very concerned, but if they were going to take their first hit of crack, Meth or heroin, you would be beside yourself and in "High Action Mode"

It is no exaggeration to say that is how damaging an EA is to a woman, most never fully recover!!!

You must protect her form this at all cost, no action is too extreme.
You can see it on here again and again, a husband underestimates the addiction of an EA, doesn't act with clear, strong, decisions, and loses his wife, she actually chooses the EA over their marriage.

The EA requires an intervention of the strongest kind!!! 

Here is a wife of a police officer who realized where her EA was going, confessed it to him and calls her attachment to the OM a "Monkey on Her Back" that is causing her much suffering, and hindering her progress in her marriage, and this was in a very early stage! 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54243-im-wife-emotional-affair.html

This is repeated on TAM again and again!

You would not let the opinion of your son or daughter regarding your intervention (in their drug use, as above) hinder you in the least.
You would be firm and decisive, you would not argue, name call, or ridicule, you would speak the truth with one purpose, to protect them for their good! And you would die before you would back down!!!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Really you have to listen up here and _now_ because what you do_ right now _about this will ripple through the rest of your life - you leave it, be indecisive about it and it'll all be finished and over with before you know it.

The info and advice on here is based on thousands of scenarios like yours and the patterns are all the same - EXACTLY. What you take from this will define how this goes for you. Please listen hard. 



Gizmo04 said:


> I think hes not attractive at all, but who knows what she thinks.


That is not relevant. She sees something in him period whether he's Brad Pitt or the Hulk is immaterial - she's attracted and that's all that matters



Gizmo04 said:


> The problem is she doesnt seem to think shes doing anything wrong and it baffles me.


She's in 'the fog' and that's not arguable. A part of being in the fog means she will justify being in contact physically or emotionally any way she can ( even by 'downplaying' 'minimizing' it ("just a friend")- he will become a better and better prospect and you will quickly recede into a worse prospect. Get ready to start to have your marital history re-written as that will justify her affair even more 



Gizmo04 said:


> I'm debating letting her read all of this to see that its pretty unanimous on here about her being wrong. MC is definitely a possibility if she fails to realize her actions are doing a lot of harm.


I'd say that's already a waste of time as she already deep down knows what her actions are doing but choosing to ignore it all. Some might say yeah get her to have a look here but I doubt she'd stay for two minutes as she saw the depth of feeling and facts about how the wayward spouse behaves in an affair. Up to you really it could help but I doubt it. Ther are a couple of wayward spouse 'behavioral documents that could help I've seen a few time on here that somebody could point you to . They are hard hitting and for the WSpouses eyes and that might shake her up a bit. 




Gizmo04 said:


> I'm a big advocate of men and women not being able to be friends because of this, and i know how i use to be. She doesnt understand this. It's like shes getting back at me for talking to another woman about our marital problems. Difference is, i admitted what i was doing was wrong and immediately cut off all communication. Yet she still brings it up all the time as a rebuttal.


Well there you go - ask her if she remembers how hurtful that was to her and she'll quickly know how you feel but worrying that she's dismissing that now




Gizmo04 said:


> Tomorrow is when were off all day together so ill be able to talk. Its not that im afraid to fight, I just want it to be a normal conversation to talk about it. I argue all day with criminals at work, i don't need that SH** at home.


*NO it is not a NORMAL conversation*. Gizmo you're fear is what shines through here. You really have to get that out of your head. This is a conversation that will define your life and others around you. It is the most IMPORTANT conversation you will have ever had to had. Treat it as such and you will be on much more confident ground . imo you have to get straight to it be clinical set out the boundaries so they leave no room for misunderstanding. 

She needs to have simple choices at her disposal don't allow her to complicate anything but that also needs you to be clear in what your demands are 

imo yo do any thing less and you'll give her scope to go underground with it or carry on in the way she wants
basically this has to stop or it's divorce court - it's that simple really.

Her reaction to that will tell you instantly how far into the fog she is and then you can asses everything accordingly

Good Luck


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

How to fix this?

Remember where you left your balls and go get them. 

That or watch an EA turn into a PA. 

No idea why some dudes stand around twiddling their thumbs and watch their wives fall in love with other men.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> So we've talked a little today and to her it seems like nothi gs going on, she acts like everythings fine. If i bring it up shes always accused me of just looking to fight because im incapable of being happy or some crap. So i dont even know how to approach it. Weve only talked through text so far because this is something i want to do face to face but im dreading another fight about it. Any tips on how to approach this later?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She acts like everythings fine because she is avoiding the fact that everything IS NOT. And she knows exactly why. She knows she is doing wrong. She knows! Why else would she react in the way she does.

If you bring it up she accuses you. That is how you defend what you know to be wrong but want to continue doing wrong. Attack. And attack again. This has a 2 way effect. 1. You avoid bringing it up due to her unreasonable reaction, you want to chat, she goes off her head = u become scared of mentioning it. 2. She doesn't have to deal with it, accept responsibility, and then have to do something about it. She makes it your problem, not hers. Therefore she avoids the real problem. Her behaviour. Also, by accusing she deflects the issue, thereby avoiding it and turning it into your issue.

Don't dread a fight. Be strong. If she wants to fight let her. Just sit silently until she is finished ranting and then bring it back to the issue. 

You know when you were talking to your old HS female friend about marriage problems - inappropriate - and your wife found out, flipped, and nearly divorced you? Why on earth have you not and are you not doing the same? 

Take control, stop being scared. You do yourself no favours by doing neither.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Agree with remains. When people are in the wrong, they get defensive. My boyfriend was having an EA, I brought it up and he called me a psycho. I wasn't in the wrong. I made him cut contact. Far as I know, he's still not in contact. 

How would she feel if you carried on an exclusive one on one relationship exchanging flirty texts with a female? She'd flip if she cared. But right now, she's making you out to be the bad guy. This guy is the greener grass.

I'd throw out some subliminal messages. Maybe watch a movie with her about an affair where things don't work out for the affairees. Thats usually how it happens anyway. Cheaters always regret cheating. Unless there's something wrong with them.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

BOTTOM LINE Your cant fix your marriage if your scared to confront her about major issues. If she knows that yelling and blame shifting will make you go away then THAT'S exactly what she'll continue to do. Confront her and force the issue.(Go to MC) Don't back down when you confront her because your only compounding resentment between the both of you by dragging it out.

If she brings up your past EA say something like this "Yes I did, I'm sorry. But do you know when I stopped???......When you TOLD ME TO. What are you doing? And why aren't you showing me the same respect???"



> Its not that im afraid to fight, I just want it to be a normal conversation to talk about it. I argue all day with criminals at work, i dont need that SH** at home.


As you know in life, things don't always work at the way you want them to. If you want to tip toe around the issue that's your choice. She may never sit down and talk calmly about it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I told you.

Bring it up to their bosses. It isn't so much fun when The Boss is watching their laughing flirty stuff with a more jaundiced eye.

I would also take copies of her texting with you when you visit her mother. Read some of the more egregious parts out loud with the both of them there. Your wife will be mortified and see it as her mother sees it: that she's engaging emotionally and sexually with a man who is not her husband.

She may be so mad she dumps you like a bad habit. But may I remind you that you are already going down that path if you ignore this.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

OP, Listen to the advice you are being given. Her almost divorcing you straightened you out. Why do you think anything less would work on her? Besides, do you want to stay with someone who emasculates you this way with a 19year old! Speaking of which, after you deal with your wife, can't your bros on the force make things a little uncomfortable for this kid? Ya know, just to teach him a lesson.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> ...*The problem is she doesnt seem to think shes doing anything wrong* and it baffles me. ....


Horrible logic. So if she shoplifted jewelry from a store b/c she thought they charged too much for other things she bought it would be ok b/c she didn't think it was wrong. Same for kids trying pot, coke, H etc. They're just 'experimenting' and not doing anything wrong. bullsh..t. 

Oh I wouldn't wear my pd uniform if I spoke to the OM (and I wouldn't talk to him anyway) b/c you might find yourself before a review board. 

You've got a lot of work ahead. Be calm and take your time. Much good advice above.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Sad but this relationship is toxic to you. Instead of making you a better person for being with her, it is damaging you, and making you a prisoner of your own marriage. Please do not have children with this woman unless there are some big time changes. By this time in you relationship you should be certain that your children would be brought into a stable and nuturing home, but you know better. A controling woman creates a lot of stress, its not healthy for anyone to always have to walk on eggshells.

Dont be one of these people who thinks having children will help solve marriage problems. It adds more stress and if you guys are still together when they become teens, well, ...your wife is gonna flip out on YOU.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> So we've talked a little today and to her it seems like nothi gs going on, she acts like everythings fine. If i bring it up shes always accused me of just looking to fight because im incapable of being happy or some crap. So i dont even know how to approach it. Weve only talked through text so far because this is something i want to do face to face but im dreading another fight about it. Any tips on how to approach this later?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are making this harder than it needs to be.

1) You no longer discuss or negotiate this. You tell her that her realtionship with this OM is not aceptable to you.

2) She must go NC with this guy immediately. No find farewells. If she worsk with him she must quit her job.

3) You need to see a lawyer. Best to see him before you speak with her.

4) Filing for divorce does not mean going through wiith it. However, if she is will to throw away her marriage for this guy you know she is in a deep affair.

Keep in mind these are what you must do if you wish to stay married to her.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Gizmo, read 'did I overreact to what I though was an EM (EA)' thread by googguy, and also know that many stories are JUST like your! 

If you do not sort it out swiftly...believe me it will prolong the agony 10 fold. And possibly the devastation too.

You HAVE to sort it now. Be strong.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You are making this harder than it needs to be.
> 
> 1) You no longer discuss or negotiate this. You tell her that her realtionship with this OM is not aceptable to you.
> 
> ...


Entropy is completely correct. She and this guy are following the EA script which leads to PA. You have a proven counter script to follow in order to gain a position of power. Entropy outlines some steps. Look at 180 for additional info. Once you have the emotional upper hand then you can decide what you want to do in regards to R versus D. Of course she may be willing to let the marriage go but you have better odds of that not being the case this way. Either way your goal should be to gain control which you have none of now.


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## DH1971 (Sep 15, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> No she stopped going out to bars after work after me finally talking some sense into her about how much it was bothering me. However, she constantly gives me grief about it saying i make her a caged animal, she never gets to do anything, always making me feel bad. I dont go out either, like i said, im a cop, i dont have time to do anything, but it doesnt bother me, im happiest when im with the wife and our daughter. RJB- i know he just went through a breakup and my wife said she was "helping" him through it. She says she has lots of guy friends at work but this is the only one she texts and talks to outside of work. She immediately focuses the blame on me when i confront her. Its always well you dont do this, youre an insecure *******, you dont show me u love me. Things were getting really good between us until i found out she was tlaking to this guy. It totally tears me apart inside and i just cant act the same around her.
> sorry for the poor grammar, im pissed off right now and typing really fast haha.


"Helping him" I hope not. The only thing he needs help with is his next nutt. That's the oldest line in the book. Don't buy it.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Entropy is spot on!!
Please, for the sake of your marriage, take action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Well we had time to talk about it and her reasoning was that i wasnt giving her enough attention and she likes getting attention. Its sketchy here because i did the same thing back in november but never got physical, never met up to hang out, and she works with the guy. I got her to admit she was wrong and i made it very clear that this is not to continue and if i see anything, im going to deal with it. I know its a little abuse of power, but she doesnt need to quit when i am perfectly able to get this kid fired, i already have friends who are willing to handle it as to not involve me directly. So its been a decent couple of days, we've been good together. However, im still on my toes waiting for anything to get out of place. She wanted to go out to a bar after work tonight with co workers,(its fine cuz i know hes only 19 and cant go) and im like not a good idea considering ive lost a lot of trust in you. She insists she doesnt have any interest in him and never liked him that way, so i said well youre not allowed to like him in any way, ever. It'll take a while to let my guard down again, which is sucky for our marriage, but necessary.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Gizmo---enuff is enuff----the 2 of you need to sit down and have a set of serious talks

1st subject---definition of mge---somewhere in that conversation, you tell her straight out,----married women do not go out to bars, w/out their H's------bars are meatmarkets----and her work friends, are not like family/marital friends---they will not have her back, if she gets drunk, flirty, and into a ONS, situation, with some PUA----and the PUA's are there all over the place, that is where they go to score

If she absolutely must go to a bar---she goes for ONE DRINK, right after work, and she stays no longer than 45 minutes

If she wants to go out with her female co-workers---they can go to dinner, at a restaurant---or to the movies----NO BARS---NO MEAT MARKETS

If your wife wants attention---give it to her, start wooing her like you did, in the beginning---date nights, flowers, little gifts---things like that---

But the main thing is the 2 of you need to talk quietly 3 or 4 times a week, about things---if your wife starts accusing---just turn it on her, and tell her you are trying your hardest, and if she doesn't wanna work on the mge, and talk about things, like most normal married couples do---then maybe she needs to be single again, as in D----just say those words calmly---let her know, she either gets with it, or she can be back out in the world, as a D., woman---you let her know you will NOT TOLERATE, her treating you and the mge., as she is doing now


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

You are right to be suspicious. Your wife is not behaving in a mature and trustworthy manner. Your insecurity is the result if your wife's failures to guard the boundaries if your marriage. Y'all need to have a very serious talk about boundaries, flirtation, opposite sex friends and unmet needs ASAP.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Gizmo,
I think its good that "I got her to admit she was wrong " but it is unlikely that she owns that, she knew it was wrong all the time and did it anyway!

So she has a ways to go before you guys agree on appropriate boundries and they are her "commitment'.

Which puts you in the position of enforcer, that sucks!

It is what it is for now,
but dont feel content at that level, that is not a marriage "partnership" its more like a marriage "paternalship".

Are any of her friends that she would go out with what we would call toxic, i.e encouraging or covering for wrong behaviour?

Please consider what JNJ has said above, for a needy married woman to have GNO's, going to bars, etc, that can get ugly quick.
I cant imagine how a married woman who wants to honor her marriage woud even cosider it.

Also I am very concerned by her apparent lack of remorse for what she has done to you.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Gizmo,
Did she end up going to the bar?

BTW there is a poster on here whose wife is having a Mid Life Crises, (MLC) and she was having sex in the parking lot of the bar with her OM.

Not trying to scare you but if there is somthing going on i dont feel like you are being watchful enough.

If she goes can you stake it out?

also, and please dont think me too picky but "its fine cuz i know hes only 19 and cant go", you know that 19yr olds got to bars all the time, I raised 4 teenagers and I know.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> Well we had time to talk about it and her reasoning was that i wasnt giving her enough attention and she likes getting attention. Its sketchy here because i did the same thing back in november but never got physical, never met up to hang out, and she works with the guy. I got her to admit she was wrong and i made it very clear that this is not to continue and if i see anything, im going to deal with it. I know its a little abuse of power, but she doesnt need to quit when i am perfectly able to get this kid fired, i already have friends who are willing to handle it as to not involve me directly. So its been a decent couple of days, we've been good together. However, im still on my toes waiting for anything to get out of place. *She wanted to go out to a bar after work tonight with co workers,(its fine cuz i know hes only 19 and cant go) and im like not a good idea considering ive lost a lot of trust in you.* She insists she doesnt have any interest in him and never liked him that way, so i said well youre not allowed to like him in any way, ever. It'll take a while to let my guard down again, which is sucky for our marriage, but necessary.


Seriously?


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Are you a Traffic Cop?...............Good luck to you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Giz - you did good getting her to admit the wrong.

But I think you've let things move into a situation where she still has on going contact with him - so things can continue to flourish - they can become even tighter than they are now

She now has lunch hours and other moments (like when she's supposed to be meeting folks at a bar for a drink ) to meet up with the kid for a quickie.

Since you're not able to watch her at work, or after work - you really have no way to detecting if things go really bad from here on out.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Giz - you did good getting her to admit the wrong.

But I think you've let things move into a situation where she still has on going contact with him - so things can continue to flourish - they can become even tighter than they are now

She now has lunch hours and other moments (like when she's supposed to be meeting folks at a bar for a drink ) to meet up with the kid for a quickie.

Since you're not able to watch her at work, or after work - you really have no way to detecting if things go really bad from here on out.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

She said she wants to go to a bar tonight.

And you said you lost a lot of trust in her.

These two things together don't add up.

You realize, no matter what she said or how she acted, she is pissed and resentful for blowing up her fun and making her look bad.

And now she's at a bar tonight with her girlfriends. And no 19yr old has ever gotten into a bar with a fake ID, or met someone outside.

But it's ok because she said she has no interest in him,right?

And you trust her...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check all emails/texts, VAR under front seat, Gps phone and or car.


Girls nights out never work out same for you. Date nights should be good enough for married people.

Everyone is aware of wht happens when people get together to drink and party.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Even if she went to the bar you don't know what time she left it.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> Ok this is kind of complicated. But a while back i noticed this guy from my wifes work was always talking to her or messaging her on fb. Nothing really inappropriate just flirting with little insults and stuff like that. Then it just kept getting more frequent and I found out she gave him her number. I saw it on a phone bill and immediately went to detective work to pull up erased text messages. Again nothing inappropriate just mild flirting, but my wife was doing it too kind of. I told my wife about it and i said that it pisses me off and i didnt want her talking to the guy outside of work. She immediately blew up at me calling me psychotic and nothing going on. So got through that and it started up again a week or so later and again i brought it up and she flipped out and said she was wrong and wouldnt do it again. However of course again i find out thats not the case. Its not whats in the context of the message its just becoming to frequent and this is a single guy tlaking to a married woman. Shes been telling him that she shouldnt talk to him because i might be tracking her, but she still continues to do it. *This guy has made me into this insecure ahole that i dont trust my wife at all and feel the need to monitor her. *She insisits theres nothing going on but it just irritates the living hell out of me. I need help here? Do i just drop it and be naive about it? what do i do?


You need to stop thinking this way. It is your wife who is responsible for staying within her marriage. She is the one that is perpetuating contact. Your marriage right now is compromised. She is getting emotionally fed by someone outside your marriage. That means that you are being neglected. She is likely starting to pull away from you. This is something you need to deal with now. 
If she can't manage to maintain a respectful relationship with this man you have no choice but to do whatever is necessary to prevent this from going further. 

I would expose her to family, friends, the HR department at her work, and I would demand that she not talk to this man ever again. If that means her finding another job so be it. What's a few bill compared to divorce and being cheated on.

Don't play passive aggressive and wait for her to wake up. that's like give a crack addict ten dollars and then letting them go buy your dinner. What do you think is going to happen.

Reality is starting to damage her relationship with his OM. Keep applying the pressure and don't relent. She is in what we call the affair fog. She is so addicted to this new relationship that she is forsaking everything else. This is a biological and well as psychological attraction. That's why you here the words, I knew it was wrong but I just couldn't stop. Because when your dopamine rush kicks your ass it tends to blunt things like willpower and conscience. Just like too much alcohol or cocaine she is high on this new thing. 

So if she is unwilling to quit you keep increasing the consequences. Preferably you want to use the Shock and awe approach since the faster you rip out the rug underneath her feet. The less time she has to build up lies, excuses, a false support system created to protect her currrent lifestyle, and to make plans with the OM.

You may think your wife is going to come around. However if you wait and do nothing this will escalate and you could be one of the unlucky ones that never finds out what really happened. In all honesty you should be more worried if you wife comes home and she is suddenly all better. It is usually because the EA just turned PA and she suddenly feels all the guilty for betraying you. I all honesty I think some women act out just to see if their BS will pay enough attention to catch them. I don't know if that is true or not but, it is something my wife said to me. That she "needed to get caught."


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

*She wanted to go out to a bar after work tonight with co workers,(its fine cuz i know hes only 19 and cant go) and im like not a good idea considering ive lost a lot of trust in you. She insists she doesnt have any interest in him and never liked him that way, so i said well youre not allowed to like him in any way, ever. It'll take a while to let my guard down again, which is sucky for our marriage, but necessary.*

Little confused here, is she going or not?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ever heard of fake Id's ?


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

well no it went like this. I asked her what she was doing at work, she said i'm explaining to my friends why i cant go out with them after work. I said why? are you upset? she said: yes and no, no because she would rather spend time with me, and yes because she would at least like the option of going out like once a month. I said well its not at a good point, i dont trust you. So she was asking why i was stressed this morning. I'm like why do you think, this isnt just something i can get over, you have to prove to me i can trust you. I asked her if that guy went last night, she said yes but why does it matter because she didnt want to go. In a way im happy to know he has a fake id, makes my job a whole lot easier now. It's all about handling this in a delicate manner. I already have an investigation on me at work for some bs, so i cant afford to do this personally.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Gizmo, let me ask my original question in another way, do you think that the so-called 'friend' she is texting is someone who she would have have a physical attraction to? Is he a guy that you believe she would sleep with?

I know some might find the question irrelevant, but it is relevant. What if he's gay, or a Pee wee Herman type that is just someone who she thinks of no more than a person to talk to like just another girlfriend?

I'm not discounting the guys motivation, I know all guys are after a shot in the sheets, but I'm trying to be sure there's a real issue here with Gizmo's wife.

So, Gizmo, did I miss something that makes this clear already?


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

I mean yea i guess. Hes a normal guy, i dont think hes attractive but women are weird. Can i see her cheating? No, but who knows, i'm not so good at the trust thing. Shes had a lot of guy friends before, all of whom ive made clear isnt acceptable. So in her mind its probably nothing that i should worry about obviously.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> I mean yea i guess. Hes a normal guy, i dont think hes attractive but women are weird. Can i see her cheating? No, but who knows, i'm not so good at the trust thing. Shes had a lot of guy friends before, all of whom ive made clear isnt acceptable. So in her mind its probably nothing that i should worry about obviously.


Ok, so, Gizmo, based on your answer, I would say you need to back off the pressure on her for now and start implementing some of the covert tactics some of the people here mention often, keyloggers, etc, etc. You need to put your mind at rest so you can be comfortable in your marriage.

Be careful not to kill your marriage by being overly protective (I know being a cop it's a natural inclination to be protective).

If she's fooling around, you'll know soon enough.

Married people have no business going to dance clubs without their spouse. Restaurant, ok, movie, ok, there are lots of activities for women and men to do with their friends, but night clubs isn't one of them.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You are making this harder than it needs to be.
> 
> 1) You no longer discuss or negotiate this. You tell her that her realtionship with this OM is not aceptable to you.
> 
> ...


I hope you read Entropy's words of wisdom OP. Let me not only display it but say it again.
- What to do is not complicated, it just sucks.
- NC and no compromise on this. 
- See a lawyer and prepare.
- If she's not doing NC then file papers.

Apparently you didn't like the comment. This makes me wonder if you care about the right way to handle this or if you're just looking for an easy fix. You can give her a stage to argue and be offended all you want but the right solution involves NC meaning she's looking for another job, and also means she owns her actions and not blame you for not trusting her.

Obviously she's getting away with minimizing and rug sweeping otherwise going out with the guys including OM would not have been a discussion at all. If you let her blame for not trusting her and wanting NC then she will. If you take the blame then shame on you.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

@thundarr , yea i understand what your saying and i told her before i left for work that i cant be in this without trust and respect. I said if u cant not talk to this guy then its a problem and i need to know so i can leave. She said shes not talking to him anymore and avoids him at work and would never jeopardize our marriage blah blah. I just need an inside to source to make sure shes not lying about contact at work. However, ive already set things in motion to get him arrested next time he uses that fake id, well detained at least and released to his parents. Ill have a copy of that report then faxed to his boss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> @thundarr , yea i understand what your saying and i told her before i left for work that i cant be in this without trust and respect. I said if u cant not talk to this guy then its a problem and i need to know so i can leave. She said shes not talking to him anymore and avoids him at work and would never jeopardize our marriage blah blah. I just need an inside to source to make sure shes not lying about contact at work. However, ive already set things in motion to get him arrested next time he uses that fake id, well detained at least and released to his parents. Ill have a copy of that report then faxed to his boss.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This would not be ok with me. My wife would either quit her job or I would be gone. Seriously. Good luck to you.

The marriage IS in jeopardy. She did this.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> @thundarr , yea i understand what your saying and i told her before i left for work that i cant be in this without trust and respect. I said if u cant not talk to this guy then its a problem and i need to know so i can leave. She said shes not talking to him anymore and avoids him at work and would never jeopardize our marriage blah blah. I just need an inside to source to make sure shes not lying about contact at work. However, ive already set things in motion to get him arrested next time he uses that fake id, well detained at least and released to his parents. Ill have a copy of that report then faxed to his boss.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't like any of this approach.

"...well detained at least and released to his parents"

Huh??? He's an adult.

And you will fax a report to his boss saying he tried to sneak into a club? C'mon man, seriously, you're going to blow up your own marriage.

There's more to this story that isn't being told here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Have you seen the guy? Is he good looking? What if he's just a geeky super nice guy who doesn't stand a chance with her? You need to know what you're dealing with.


Sorry, but geeky super nice guys get laid too. They get into EAs as well.

In fact geeks are the ones that have to practice PUA.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Well im saying this is what weve done before with minors in bars. They end up paying 500 in fines. Unless the kid is an ******* he would be detained, taken down to the station and more then likely released. Im not saying i agree with it, it just happens all the time. As far as getting it to his boss? I dont see a problem. It shouldnt affect her. I see it as easier then telling her to wuit especially since shes on the verge of being promoted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Quit*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> I think hes not attractive at all, but who knows what she thinks. *The problem is she doesnt seem to think shes doing anything wrong and it baffles me. I*'m debating letting her read all of this to see that its pretty unanimous on here about her being wrong. MC is definitely a possibility if she fails to realize her actions are doing a lot of harm. I'm a big advocate of men and women not being able to be friends because of this, and i know how i use to be. She doesnt understand this. It's like shes getting back at me for talking to another woman about our marital problems. Difference is, i admitted what i was doing was wrong and immediately cut off all communication. Yet she still brings it up all the time as a rebuttal. Tomorrow is when were off all day together so ill be able to talk. Its not that im afraid to fight, I just want it to be a normal conversation to talk about it. I argue all day with criminals at work, i dont need that SH** at home.


I am totally baffled that you are baffled. This IS how it is. When you are in an EA you think everything is fine. It all feels fine. We depend on opur feelings. However we are under the inlfuence of the same brian chemicals that we are with a cocain addiction.

You do not reason with people in this state. You do not nice them out of of an affair as it is an addiction.

When I was in an EA I thought everything was fine. My wife intervened. I quit my job and foind another. Trust me this was a big time job too. I was the major bread winner as well.

Anyway once I went through withdrawal I was able to see that I was in an EA ... not until.

So stop being baffled. Be a man of action. Be aware that every day this goes by it deteriorates and under many circumstances expodes in a heartbeat to a PA.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> well no it went like this. I asked her what she was doing at work, she said i'm explaining to my friends why i cant go out with them after work. I said why? are you upset? she said: yes and no, no because she would rather spend time with me, and yes because she would at least like the option of going out like once a month. I said well its not at a good point, i dont trust you. So she was asking why i was stressed this morning. I'm like why do you think, this isnt just something i can get over, you have to prove to me i can trust you. I asked her if that guy went last night, she said yes but why does it matter because she didnt want to go. In a way im happy to know he has a fake id, makes my job a whole lot easier now. It's all about handling this in a delicate manner. I already have an investigation on me at work for some bs, so i cant afford to do this personally.


I am confused. Did she go last night or not?

Why does this have to be handled delicately? Just stop playing with this. There is more damage caused by you telling her you don't trust her than by you saying ths situation is unacceptable. Stop telling her you do not trust her and tell her she needs out of the situation.

This is about you helping your partner. Not about you accusing her of anything.

Just take a stand for the protection of your marriage. Realize the situation is killing your marriage. You are driving your wife away by telling her you do not trust her. You should not be worrying about monitoring her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> Well im saying this is what weve done before with minors in bars. They end up paying 500 in fines. Unless the kid is an ******* he would be detained, taken down to the station and more then likely released. Im not saying i agree with it, it just happens all the time. As far as getting it to his boss? I dont see a problem. It shouldnt affect her. I see it as easier then telling her to wuit especially since shes on the verge of being promoted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you should focus on the real issues. You are getting very distracted. Keep your eye on the ball. All of this is just extra drama. 

You keep coming up with peripheral stuff. This is obfuscation. Who cares if she is on the verge of a promotion? In fact best she quit now before that happens. She is also on the verge of killing her marriage. There is not telling what else she is on the verge of.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Gizmo you can usually get into clubs under 21 you just don't get a wrist band or they mark you with a x. You are operating on some seriously bad information. Usually if a kid under 21 goes to a club someone buys them a drink anyways.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

badbane said:


> Gizmo you can usually get into clubs under 21 you just don't get a wrist band or they mark you with a x. You are operating on some seriously bad information. Usually if a kid under 21 goes to a club someone buys them a drink anyways.


He's a cop, he knows what the laws are in his city.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

@ Entropy

His wife hasn't done anything other than text back and forth with a co-worker (as far as I can tell). I think Gizmo needs to tread lightly on this and focus on finding out if there's more to it before he hits her with so much that he drives her away. If she's cheating he'll know soon enough, if she isn't then he needs to have a heart to heart about how texting someone of the opposite sex can make a person feel insecure.

I think he's more interested in staying married then he is losing her. I also think he may have a little bit of an unusually high jealousy streak working (something that can kill a relationship eventually).


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Gizmo, let me ask my original question in another way, do you think that the so-called 'friend' she is texting is someone who she would have have a physical attraction to? Is he a guy that you believe she would sleep with?
> 
> I know some might find the question irrelevant, but it is relevant. What if he's gay, or a Pee wee Herman type that is just someone who she thinks of no more than a person to talk to like just another girlfriend?
> 
> ...


After being here awhile it is obvious there is no way for him to ascertain if she is attracted to him in particular. Beautiful women go for creeps,old men, young men, broke/broken men, ugly, fat, total opposites............etc. The list is unending.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> @ Entropy
> 
> His wife hasn't done anything other than text back and forth with a co-worker (as far as I can tell).


Not true. The origin of this thread pointed out more than texting. 

- Started out with her talking about him a lot.
- OM was always "talking" or messaging her. 
- OM ( little flirting using OP's words ) on fb.
- Then it just kept getting more frequent.
- Wife gave OM her number. 
- OM flirting, but my wife was doing it too kind of. 
- told wife not to be talking to OM outside of work. She immediately blew up at OP psychotic and denied. 
- Started up again a week or so later, OP brought it up and wife flipped out *and said she was wrong and wouldnt do it again.*
- OM and wife making fun of being in trouble by big bad OP.
- Wife continued talking and texting OM and frequency picked up.
- Wife now still thinks it's okay to hang around OM outside of work.

All of this was in the very first comment. There's plenty more after that in the thread.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> He's a cop, he knows what the laws are in his city.


It seems not.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> @ Entropy
> 
> His wife hasn't done anything other than text back and forth with a co-worker (as far as I can tell). I think Gizmo needs to tread lightly on this and focus on finding out if there's more to it before he hits her with so much that he drives her away. If she's cheating he'll know soon enough, if she isn't then he needs to have a heart to heart about how texting someone of the opposite sex can make a person feel insecure.
> 
> I think he's more interested in staying married then he is losing her. I also think he may have a little bit of an unusually high jealousy streak working (something that can kill a relationship eventually).


If he wants to stay married he needs to take a firm stand here. What he is doing is enabling this other toxic relationship. This realtionship is killing his marriage. He is telling her he does not trust her. That is serious stuff.

Sooooo. He must intervene. They need to go NC IF he wants to get his marriage back on track.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

I still haven't seen anything posted that could be defined as 'killing his marriage'.

Gizmo, you're a cop, apply investigative logic, don't jump to conclusions, get evidence that a crime is being committed before making accusations.

I would calm down and take a breath and definitely see a counselor together to work out boundaries and insecurities.

You will wreck this marriage if this keeps up.

Ill be the first one to say dump her if you find direct evidence of true infidelity.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> I still haven't seen anything posted that could be defined as 'killing his marriage'.
> 
> Gizmo, you're a cop, apply investigative logic, don't jump to conclusions, get evidence that a crime is being committed before making accusations.
> 
> ...


You have to have an idea of what to look for. Most folks have no idea that they are looking at true infidelity when they see it. That is why they end up coming here.

By the time you see the blatant stuff it is too late. The idea is to stop an affair before it has too much momentum.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Gizmo let me put it this way. If there is a line in Las Vegas that your wife is still involved emotionally with this guy then I am taking that bet. I suggest you begin to take advantage of what your being told here. I guarantee you are getting played.


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks tony for understanding my dilemma. As far as the other things, do we have wristbands for bars? No, u cant walk into a bar being under 21, here at least, although i dont know any municipality that does after a certain time. I work for county govt, we operate differently then your local pd. I wont even argue with you on the quote of "it seems not" as this is a common civilian complaint that we cant do our jobs, so no hard feelings. Anyways tony, you are absolutely right. I dont have enough evidence to do much with. Yes she "kind of" flirted but nothing that was completely inappropriate like i miss u, i hate my husband, or anything along those lines. Do i have a jealousy problem? Absolutely. The way i look at it is this and i could be wrong because i know you guys are speaking from experience and your only trying to help, but when i talked to this other woman a while back, i never had any intention of cheating on my wife, i liked the attention from her. I wanted advice on how to handle it and you guys have been great. Do i still want this guy gone? Yes, and itll happen. I trust my eife not to cheat but i want to lay the ground rules for what makes me uncomfortable. I could be kicking my ass in 6 months for not listening to you guys, but id rather be optimistic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gizmo04 (Apr 25, 2012)

She deleted him from facebook without me telling her to, so that was nice. I just hate to think of worst case scenario, i have most of you guys here saying the worst things i can imagine, while i have my close friends saying no big deal shes not cheating on you. I can only assume you guys have had painful experiences in the past which sucks. If any of you have read my other posts, you know what ive gone through. For those who havent, i spent 2011 in the hospital mainly due to having a tumor, and many other problems. I lost my house, missed a year of my daughters baby life, my wife stayed by my side until she caught me talking to that OW. That was kind of a big downfall, and this is where a lot of my jealousy stems from. Ive lost everything for my family ( yes i know its not my fault, but it still hits hard when you think about it) so i worry i havent provided so why would she be with me. I'm not giving her any excuse for what happened, because it was wrong, but not marriage destroying. I realize all the **** i was doing when i started getting better she is doing, maybe its a revenge thing, or lets see how you like it, who knows. I hope this kind of gives you guys a better understanding where i'm coming from. I never rule anything out, as it will always be in the back of my mind. I made it clear NC, I gave her the "shock and awe" approach to it. Now its just time to move forward, i still have everything monitored to be sure. I think if someone wants to cheat on you, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. You can only say i was good to this person and i did everything i could to fix it and they F'ed it up, better sooner than later.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> Thanks tony for understanding my dilemma. As far as the other things, do we have wristbands for bars? No, u cant walk into a bar being under 21, here at least, although i dont know any municipality that does after a certain time. I work for county govt, we operate differently then your local pd. I wont even argue with you on the quote of "it seems not" as this is a common civilian complaint that we cant do our jobs, so no hard feelings. Anyways tony, you are absolutely right. I dont have enough evidence to do much with. Yes she "kind of" flirted but nothing that was completely inappropriate like i miss u, i hate my husband, or anything along those lines. Do i have a jealousy problem? Absolutely. The way i look at it is this and i could be wrong because i know you guys are speaking from experience and your only trying to help, but when i talked to this other woman a while back, i never had any intention of cheating on my wife, i liked the attention from her. I wanted advice on how to handle it and you guys have been great. Do i still want this guy gone? Yes, and itll happen. *I trust my wife not to cheat but i want to lay the ground rules for what makes me uncomfortable. I could be kicking my ass in 6 months for not listening to you guys, but id rather be optimistic.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


Wouldn't you rather be realistic? Anyway....stay frosty.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> .... i have most of you guys here saying the worst things i can imagine, while i have my close friends saying no big deal shes not cheating on you. I can only assume you guys have had painful experiences in the past which sucks.


Gizmo, the reason that people here say the worst is because we have either been through it or been here long enough to see your scenario, time and again in other people's threads, develop into a MUCH more serious matter. And the thing is, they start from the same position: - happy marriage blah blah I have this problem blah blah - and then describe the exact same reactions: - I have asked my spouse to stop and they refuse, ACCUSING ME of being jealous and paranoid and controlling, each time I broach the subject spouse goes mad at me. 

They all follow the same script. And what is it that brings someone to this forum? Infidelity or fear of it due to certain circumstances. And for advice on how to deal with it.

The reason your friends say 'oh it's nothing, she hasn't cheated' is because they are putting it into the same camp as their own experiences. Which no doubt have not involved your exact circumstances. Have any of these friends you asked had direct experience of their wife/husband cheating? Have they done extensive research into infidelity, the effects of it, the behaviour that goes with it, the things that cheaters say and how they act? I think probably not. Most people have been cheated on, but not by the love of their life. THAT is a totally different ball game. That is when it is done by someone you are totally devoted to and committed to, are completely in love with, and want your life with this person forever & they with you, or at least once upon a time. And then all of a sudden this weird behaviour begins. It is very confusing. And mentally abusive (gaslighting, minimising, lying). Most people I don't believe have experienced this from someone they have such deep love for and total commitment, marriage, and so the advice of friends on this matter is not helpful. In fact, it is the opposite of helpful. 

BTW, my friends said pretty much the same, minimised the behaviour that I was describing that was so upsetting to me, and seemed so obvious to me that there was stuff going on. And had I described the behaviour on here at the time, I would have been given a unanimous 'HE IS CHEATING. THIS IS CLASSIC. GET RID OF THIS TOXIC MAN'. My friends played devil's advocate. I used to get annoyed with their advice, quietly, and irritated that they just couldn't see it. And then I would front him out and he would gaslight me, and I would believe him. For a short time. And the cycle began again. Had I knew then what I know now, the last 3 years would have been VERY different. What is being said here, loud and clear, is that this relationship your wife was having was highly inappropriate in actions as well as your wife's responses to it, and that you need to pit things in place to ensure your wife knows, in no uncertain terms, that this is inappropriate and that you will not stand for it. It needs a firm hand because your wife was (is?) minimising the issue, turning it back on to you, and developing a friendship with a male that was encroaching on her marriage, yet she was defending that relationship. Not good. She needed bringing back to reality. Fast. Before it developed further. And boundaries put in place to avoid this situation again.

No one is saying your wife has cheated. But most are saying these are the signs that begin the cheating path. If you handle it correctly then you will stop it before it starts. And what you don't seem to quite grasp is the fact that your wife's behaviour at the beginning was very very damaging and very very close to that of a cheating spouse. I do honestly believe that if this wasn't (I put past tense in because in so much as what she is saying about cutting him off at work, and the fact she has removed him from FB, it could be that it is past tense. But beware!) nipped in the bud then it could VERY easily have progressed into an affair. The most unlikely suspects have affairs. And your wife was behaving at 1st like she was having one, or was close to it. They can often blindside the wayward too, as well as the betrayed.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is an old post you might want to read via Lordmayhem and F-102

*F-102 made a great post about how these things progress:


Quote:
Originally Posted by F-102 
It may have gone something like this:

They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture? 

She secretly contacted him behind your back - RED FLAG 
She created a secret facebook account to facilitate contact with him behind your back - RED FLAG 
She told him to wait till things settle down and contact her on the secret facebook account - RED FLAG 
She would NOT have stopped contact with him if you hadn't found out about it 
She's playing the privacy card. What she wants is secrecy. There is no secrey in marriage. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom 

And no, it does NOT make anything better just because he's far away. And EA is an EA is an EA. My fWWs EA was online too, and OM is in Canada. Yet I found out in the later stages how she was searching on how to immigrate there and make her escape.*


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gizmo04 said:


> Thanks tony for understanding my dilemma. As far as the other things, do we have wristbands for bars? No, u cant walk into a bar being under 21, here at least, although i dont know any municipality that does after a certain time. I work for county govt, we operate differently then your local pd. I wont even argue with you on the quote of "it seems not" as this is a common civilian complaint that we cant do our jobs, so no hard feelings. Anyways tony, you are absolutely right. I dont have enough evidence to do much with. Yes she "kind of" flirted but nothing that was completely inappropriate like i miss u, i hate my husband, or anything along those lines. Do i have a jealousy problem? Absolutely. The way i look at it is this and i could be wrong because i know you guys are speaking from experience and your only trying to help, but when i talked to this other woman a while back, i never had any intention of cheating on my wife, i liked the attention from her. I wanted advice on how to handle it and you guys have been great. Do i still want this guy gone? Yes, and itll happen. I trust my eife not to cheat but i want to lay the ground rules for what makes me uncomfortable. I could be kicking my ass in 6 months for not listening to you guys, but id rather be optimistic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My comment on the "it seems not" was that you said, she said, he was there. So if this is true then it seems this did not stop him.

My point for folks is that most people who end up being unfaithful are not purposely looking to cheat. I mean what is cheating? Unfaithfulness is extremely damaging to a marriage. It slowly detroys it. You can watch it happen and say ... well the cheating has started yet. Emotional cheating turns your spouse into another person. 

She is already talking about having to think about things and needing space. Her emotional integrity right now is at least somewhat compromised.

The fact you are on her to vent if not ask for advice means there is a problem. From what you have posted it is not just about you smothering her. 

It is highly likely this danceis going to continue for you and I am sorry you are having to go through this.

I was in a workplace EA. If you work with someone you are not NC.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Gizmo04 said:


> i have most of you guys here saying the worst things i can imagine, while i have my close friends saying no big deal shes not cheating on you. I can only assume you guys have had painful experiences in the past which sucks.
> If any of you have read my other posts, you know what ive gone through. For those who havent, i spent 2011 in the hospital mainly due to having a tumor, and many other problems. I lost my house, missed a year of my daughters baby life, my wife stayed by my side until she caught me talking to that OW. That was kind of a big downfall, and this is where a lot of my jealousy stems from. Ive lost everything for my family ( yes i know its not my fault, but it still hits hard when you think about it) so i worry i havent provided so why would she be with me.


Some here have been cheated on, others were cheating, and some are here for different reasons all together. I don't think it's in your best interest to dismiss comments you don't like by lumping them into the "jaded BS poster" category.

No one is saying you should ask more of your wife than you ask of yourself. You should have NC with the lady your were talking to and she should have NC with the man she was talking to. Then you guys have a healthy environment to work on your marriage.

Your past does give me a better picture of where you're coming from. With that in mind, it doesn't change that NC needed. It just helps explain how you got to where you are.



Gizmo04 said:


> I made it clear NC, I gave her the "shock and awe" approach to it. Now its just time to move forward,
> i still have everything monitored to be sure. I think if someone wants to cheat on you, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. You can only say i was good to this person and i did everything i could to fix it and they F'ed it up, better sooner than later.


You may have given her the "only work related with OM or else" speech. Unfortunately that's not NC and does not have the same effect. Threats don't really help that much but getting away from the tempting situation does. How many EA offenders tell us that they didn't realize how deep they were until they did NC at which point they were blindsided with their own emotional attachments.

Sure people can cheat if they want to but define "want to". Getting her away from the environment is to get her away from temptation long enough so you can work on your marriage together and she doesn't "want to" anymore. It's to let her see clearly without body chemistry clouding her judgment. Many people look back and wish they had woken up before they went EA/PA.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Gizmo, I went through and read all your posts, including the ones you made under the other threads you created. Something you said in May concerns me greatly, you said...

_"Something just doesn't feel right to me. Oh and btw when she told me she was going out she disabled the gps on her phone so she couldn't be tracked, that was a first."​_*That is bad.* That is a deliberate act to conceal her whereabouts. There's no excuse I can think of that would make that a reasonable thing to do.

Now, keep your head and don't start fighting with your wife; that obviously gets you nowhere. You need to do some of the surveillance techniques these folks discuss on here; you need to put your mind at rest one way or the other.

Do you know a private investigator who would do you a favor and watch her for a while?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Some here have been cheated on, others were cheating, and some are here for different reasons all together. I don't think it's in your best interest to dismiss comments you don't like by lumping them into the "jaded BS poster" category.
> 
> No one is saying you should ask more of your wife than you ask of yourself. You should have NC with the lady your were talking to and she should have NC with the man she was talking to. Then you guys have a healthy environment to work on your marriage.
> 
> ...


Eloquent as usual.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> Gizmo, I went through and read all your posts, including the ones you made under the other threads you created. Something you said in May concerns me greatly, you said...
> 
> _"Something just doesn't feel right to me. Oh and btw when she told me she was going out she disabled the gps on her phone so she couldn't be tracked, that was a first."​_*That is bad.* That is a deliberate act to conceal her whereabouts. There's no excuse I can think of that would make that a reasonable thing to do.
> 
> ...


Good stuff. Yeah the GPS in context with the rest of this is not a good sign.

But I am mainly commenting here as a absolutely feel it is important for there not tp be fighting right now. That will not help. 

Yes, many folks go into surveillance. If she is to stay at the job then this is critical. One reason I push for the job quitting is to avoid the senario of trying to monitor so closely under those circumstances. It would drive me nuts and create great tension. Which pushes the spouse away.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

There is one very obvious point here that could have got lost on you which is this 

Lets say that she's actually innocent of the ulterior motive here that she's not looking to do the 'business'.

If you are, as you should be for her, the only important core of her love life, that you are 'the one' that she values you as a partner way above all others she should have no problem with thinking "I can see how this will destroy all that so I'll drop this threat to my husband, for his benefit"

imo if there is no ulterior motive here she should be ble to do that as easy as 123

Is she doing or going to do that?

I'd say you must be worth that if you are as important to her as you ought to be.


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