# Mariage 2.0..A nice guys guide to sexless recovery



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

*Marriage 2.0..A nice guys guide to sexless marriage recovery*

This will be an *ongoing series of threads* print them out (keep them clean and organized please... positive comments welcome)... It will be done in chapters spaced in time (purposly because this stuff takes TIME) This will allow other "nice" guys caught all of the sudden in a sexless marriage to develop their own plan for sexless recovery.
It can be done. You will simply transform yourself into HER best option and along the way transform your wife into YOUR best option..WIN/WIN

Those who doubted me.... thanks you just encouraged me to continue on...this was uncharted territory I simply would not accept a sexless marriage forever and prefer MY WIFE for that. Its not rocket science. I am a GOOD GUY and I wanted to stay true to myself that way I can maintain it for life! I don't want anything but a commitment to marriage from both my wife and myself... a complete makeover.


WARNING: this PLAN and my series is for those who want a NEW BETTER marriage with their wives with their own NEEDS completely taken into account for life. IF you are not willing to put at least 18-36 months into solving your issue permanently...simply move on.

Wives snooping... This is all in your best interest and comes from the position have we are equal partners... some of my methodology is shocking. Most isn't. BEst of all YOU benefit too....just get ready to have lots of sex with your hubby as you like to call him on here. You will both fall back in love.

Good luck.

Those willing to sacrifice short term pain for long term gain read on.... I firmly believe with my findings and ACTUAL EXPERIENCES THAT WERE TESTED most any sexless marriage can be turned around within three years... MINE WAS EXTREME and I did it. So can you....IF you want to and are 100% committed to succeed... I will be your mentor.

I want to thank all of you that have offered me advice through the years. My wife and I are not 100% back yet but we will get there.

Here is my story...a typical one from a typical middle upper class family with two boys.




Pre-sexlessness.... Year 17



My life was perfect (except for sex), I love my wife, I love my family and we had the American Dream. Everyone thought our marriage was perfect including us. 

My defense all along as you who know me...."My wife is PERFECT I would never leave her if only we had sex" I am a typical husband... we do not initially see the faults in our wife's... trust me they are just as flawed as us and you WILL discover that on your journey.

Then something changed.. Sex started to wane we couldn't seem to find the time. I settled on an acceptable more than monthly (trying to be nice and let my wife rest) yet somehow we started to go beyond that (her doing) wife not into it much ... this was years ago.

I was stressed over that and other stuff like my job etc. I started to exhibit some stress coping behaviors like drinking a bit too much. Also i was pretty short tempered with my kids... they didn't deserve it as It was not heir fault... they were there though and pissing me off. So yes I yelled at hem to stop. Two boys 3 years apart you all know how hard that can be.

My wife secretly was upset... She told me later she would be up in the bathroom crying. I had no idea. When I look back on hat period I knew it was "wrong' to yell at my kids so much but its almost like I couldn't stop.. It was me trying to send a message to my wife I'm stressed lets have sex.

Then it happenned.... ILYNILWY 2 years 10 months ago. She developed closes contact with another male to help her through it... a long-term EA in my opinion and friendship in hers.

She even had the nerve to say EVERYONE sees you as self-centered. She obviously WAS talking about us...HER "friends' giving her 'advice" I was not worth it for her. She even lied to me as I asked people if they said that. She made up lots of stuff. She had a laundry list of complaints going back to our wedding day.... she was simply re-evaluating her life at mid stage. Women ARE different...way different!

She even started shaving her privates, wearing sexy panties. going to the gym everyday.

We are recovering. Marriage 2.0

Here's the deal we do love each other and our previous marriage was out of whack . Our roles were out of whack. Our sex life was always low against national averages (never mention that to her..mistake 1) I think our best year after marrige was about 20 times per year....I was TOO nice...MY wife TOO tired.. This series of posts is how we recovered.... others can benefit.

So I hope you enjoy his long tern series... I want to share my knowledge wit all who need it. I was very upset to find hat sexlessness had such a low possibility of turning around and that most marriages simply were accepting or ending. There had to be a better way... I will share the way as we go. You will not ever threaten divorce. YOU will do nothing but continue to love your wife ven though right know she may be question how she feels about you...thats OK your marriage needs fixed. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX!

For now I just want to explain what a sexless marriage like mine is and isn't.

It is...

Beneficial, as it allows you a chance to re-calibrate your marriage look at it as an opportunity and very necessary if you want more sex. You will both change for the better... It took both of your to get HERE and both of you to get THERE.

Hard... very hard.... i cannot tell you haow much time and energy i have spent on this. It is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my entire life!

Loving... we do love each other. If my wife though here was no chance for recovery she 'Would be gone!" Her words. (My wife is likely like yours...if she is there then there is always a chance)

So guys (possibly girls can benefit to) here is how I'm going to help you recovery from sexless marriage... you have to have a PLAN! Guys have to have plans... we are plan oriented and we want to get results. I have found a PLAN that works for me.... I cannot guarantee it will work for you. It is based on all sorts of research and takes the best parts of MMSL, Calle Zorro, My steps, TAM mentors, everything. Its what worked for me.

THE PLAN is what keeps you sane (along with some porn/masturbation)..there is light at the end of the tunnel for many nice guys.

Steps will be provided in stages, I will post step one at some point i the near future. For now let me give you all some advice of* what works and doesn't.

Works:

Consistency
Time
Masturbation some porn.
Letters, Talks, e-mails
Targeted (laser-like) communication with lots of time in between.
Communicating your thoughts.
Changing your behaviors.
Connecting with the kids.
Some spying.
commitment and NEVER taking your eye off the goal.
Always look your wife directly in her eyes when she talks and LISTEN to her.
Chit-chat your wife hates conflict. That is why we target it..get it?

What doesn't..

Silence
Grumpiness
Changing yourself too much.
Trying to read your wife's thoughts.
Talking without practice... wives never forget a word.
Threatening
Leaving
Lots of spying.*


Mental exercise... Think about how our behaviors look to your wife. Would you have sex with YOU.

Guys STOP THE BLEEDING and the patient may survive! Time is your BIGGEST ally.
KEEP your eye on the GOAL. Work THE ISSUE.

NEVER EVER APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR SEX DRIVE..its yours NOT hers.

Its a process...there is an issue NO SEX or LITTLE SEX we together will re-calibrate our wives thoughts. 

Keep in mind... YOUR WIFE is processing always this stuff. Women do NOT change on a dime. You will help guide her through the process while you work on becoming a better man for yourself. Eventually she will fall deeply in love with you again, sex will not ever be an issue again. Why? You BOTH will not allow it to be...she will be concerned you are getting enough sex!

We will do steps in STAGES like at 3 month or 6 month intervals.... you will have fun watching your wife change back to the girl you met but better!

*Here is your homework until the next installment:

List everything your wife has mentioned as her issue with you.
Research Women's Needs. Not yours theirs. BECOME A EXPERT...start googling.
Start to get fit, iron your clothes, do at least 51% of the household chores NO MORE!
Pick one new thing (something you should do but don't for yourself)... for me it was flossing my teeth twice a day <-- This is a good habit you need one to help ground you to be task oriented a reminder that YOU are improving day by day.
Stop whining. Stop complaining NOW
Prepare yourself as if you had to impress a new girl in the near future.
Prepare yourself to have ZERO sex for long periods Months!
In reality less sex is better for you (shes not into you anyhow right now)... its a long term fix. Keep trying but DO NOT SHOW ANY DISAPPOINTMENT at all. Try often and pile up the rejections they are necessary.
Settle in for the long haul and prepare yourself to NOT BE AFRAID TO LOSE YOUR WIFE.
Settle into a sexless baseline... not too high not too low. Do less than when you had a sex life. Its ok to be moody... just control it. YOU ARE NOT HAPPY so settle into that reality.
REALIZE and this is key...IT MUST GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER!
*

You may see only MINOR change at first MAJOR changes occur near the end.
I'll be back later you have enough to get started i will create a step by step guide... Starting with step 1.0 going to 2.0.

2.0= All the sex you and your wife need for life. WIN/WIN
YOU will set the acceptable middle ground and share all your sexual desires of her.
A better version of your marriage. Marriage 2.0.

Excited? I would have loved a plan that worked.
I am more than happy to share my experience with you.
I thank everyone who helped me! My wife thanks you too.

My time < 3 years I made PLENTY of mistakes, you will too. YOu will learn from my mistakes as we go on. I will create a new thread with each step as we go... so settle in and together we will re-calibrate your marrige with me as your guide one who went through hell already for you all. Prepare yourself this will be the absolute hardest thing you ever do.. your wives ARE worth your best effort... You will become a better man and remain a nice guy. For now good luck. Talk to you all down the road as I disclose each step. 

The plan is SOLID and each step builds on the last. WE WILL start with a FOUNDATION and build step by step until we reach Marriage 2.0. You will find out if your WIFE is game if she isn't you will be READY to find a new one AND NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AGAIN.. Either way YOU WILL GET ALL THE SEX YOU NEED in TIME.

Keep in mind its not YOUR OR HER PROBLEM alone... its simply a marital issue that you will bring to a HEAD and a method of correcting BAD BEHAVIORS on each side. YOU will get to tell your wife EXACTLY what you need to AND correct all issues AND open up lines of communication on ANYTHING.

I said I would solve my sexless marriage in reailty I simply corrected our ENTIRE MARRIAGE , doing a complete re-boot and helped guide my wife through it... I did for OUR lives. Its possible. T2.

I could be making this all up...you have to have faith.


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## trying_to_rejuvenate (Aug 21, 2012)

looking forward to your posts. Hope you can sequence them them with the same title just a number change.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

trying_to_rejuvenate said:


> looking forward to your posts. Hope you can sequence them them with the same title just a number change.



Welcome to YOUR journey....I will and I expect all you guys who decide to implement THE PLAN to give me reports after each one. We need to work together to create a whole series of BEST PRACTICES (AS my case is just that... mine alone) so hopefully ALL of us guys have a chance at honoring our marital vows with the woman we chose to spent our lives with who now simply has found faults and can't stand to make love to YOU.... not men...YOU. IN the process correcting ALL BAD BEHAVIORS. A win/win.

Just look for *Marriage 2.0
* in each title

Now go take on the DAY.... Remember always LOVE your wife no matter what... she needs you she trusted you earn her trust back. Most all of this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!
It's her childhood and the years before you that are most of it. Its her father and ex-boyfriends. Remember that IT IS NOT all JUST YOU. You have to be her ROCK.

Good luck.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Look for the first installment STEP 1 within about a WEEK.... just get started with my do's and don'ts.... I'll further explain details later. Smile you will get a sexual marriage back most likely with YOUR WIFE!

STOP the bleeding today and relax. You have the rest of your life to get it right.

You are not alone... almost 15-20% of marriages sex sucks or is so infrequent you can't function another 30% or more are lacking and causing stress...we will change that together. Just say *NO* to sexless marriages...its a TEMPORARY state..... a deep valley....lets start the hard climb up. You can do it. I did. GET ready for the toughest time of your life.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

this of course only works if she is willing to try as well.because if she wants nothing to do with you there is not much you can do. there are a lot of marriages that can not be saved. and giving people hope that all marriages can be saved is just not true.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

downfall69 said:


> this of course only works if she is willing to try as well.because if she wants nothing to do with you there is not much you can do. there are a lot of marriages that can not be saved. and giving people hope that all marriages can be saved is just not true.


That is true... but you have the inside track. We don't NEED her to try the plan she IS the plan (her mind) of course if shes 100% done yes here is no hope... but why is she still there?. This is a method for YOU to 'try' to recover your marriage. People are here for help and SO FAR there have been NO good guides on what to do in a sexless marriage. So instead of throwing up your hands in the air and not knowing what to do...here I am.

At the very least you learn about women AND yourself. So it doesn't happen again. 

How many success stories have you seen? That's right virtually ZERO.... they are rare...this drastically improves you odds of success.

People have FREE CHOICE I am not forcing anyone to do anything...it really is up to ALL OF YOU.... I just have the perspective of what worked in my marriage. I'm trying to remove the FOG of what the hell to do... so that sexless guys can function again.

Lets talk about HOPE... throw it out the window. There is no HOPE only actions that YOU control. You cannot FORCE someone to fall back in love with you...but you can certainly try.
All of you owe your spouse your best efforts... you have to find your own path.

Eventually we will have more results from those who benefited from these steps... then we will see how my 'most any' turns out. You are right I have no evidence yet so perhaps I over estimated.... its a solid plan that's all i know...and it worked once on a very VERY tough customer....my own wife. It is based on some of the best books on women and also based on conversations with others who have successfully navigated or helped others navigate sexless marriages.... I didn't just pull this out of a hat. I took it all in to account, picked the best pieces and forged my own path with items YOU WILL NOT READ IN BOOKS. Why? Because something DIFFERENT needed to be done. I was NOT going to remain sexless with my own wife and I wanted it fixed in the shortest possible time frame with permanent results. DARE TO BE BOLD. This has been my second job for 2 yrs 10 mo. NO hope..just results. My wife is a brand new person, so am I.

T2


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## claudiagoul (Sep 24, 2012)

Hope you can sequence them them with the same title just a number change.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I read your other posts about being determined to change your marriage and sex life. I never saw the outcome of your plan of completely ignoring the issue. Now you're coming out with this guide...yet still no talk of how things worked out? What changed in your wife? Are you having sex more regularly now? Did she take ILYBNILWY of the table? 

I wont follow this guide if you havent had success.


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## Mishy (Mar 28, 2012)

Sounds interesting T2

Thanks for sharing.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I read your other posts about being determined to change your marriage and sex life. I never saw the outcome of your plan of completely ignoring the issue. Now you're coming out with this guide...yet still no talk of how things worked out? What changed in your wife? Are you having sex more regularly now? Did she take ILYBNILWY of the table?
> 
> I wont follow this guide if you havent had success.


You choose your own path if you don't want to follow my plan so be it I really don't care.

Look this stuff is GOLD and getting a sex life back THAT YOU APPROVE OF in a sexless marriage is HARD work and takes a while. I am far enough in the process to know with 100% certainty it will work. My wife and I are nearly there. We are at 1.9 on the way to 2.0. I would not release this info until I was certain we are on the path to a sexual marriage we both can live with FOR LIFE.

I guarantee nothing other than guarantees that you will learn about women's minds... and you will simply become a better man.... 
As to whether YOUR marriage turns around that's 100% up to you.

Sincerely T2


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, your still sexless?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, your still sexless?


I will be honest YES..I'm at the end of a ten month stretch. Best thing I'm good... why THE PLAN...How many current sexless guys can say they are OK without sex? I can. You will notice I used to be on TAM all the time searching for answers, I've been gone implementing the answers and now I'm back.

That is part of the plan. Everyone's marriage will have a different period at the end...but that why I told you to prepare for months of sexlessness, there will be many periods of months without sex that is part of the FIX... when my wife and I restart we will be on marriage 2.0 from the get go..got it?

The best part is my wife is already so much better than ever by going though my plan for her...so you get all those benefits too.

Have to have faith that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

I wanted to get the steps out so people can get started. By the time I complete this series my wife and I will be already on 2.0. In fact its immenent possibly a few more weeks at worst. Again faith.

Dare to be bold. Isn't that the way they win football games. Its a process a mind re-engineering and NEVER being ashamed of YOUR drive. In essence you will NOT accept less than your wife WANTING to have sex with you at a frequency YOU select....and with the stuff you want AND she wants. WIN/WIN.
The goal is to NEVER cross this bridge again for LIFE.

I will show you how to do that.

A total 100% complete fix. That is what my marriage WILL BE..others can acheive the very same success..I am 100% confident in that statement.

MY plan is equivalent to very slowly turning up the heat to boil a FROG....so THEY don't suffer.

Fixing a sexless marriage is the HARDEST THING YOU WILL EVER DO.

Short term PAIN for rest of lifetime gain... ARE you all-in because that is what is REQUIRED.
MAX time-frame will be NO MORE THAN THREE YEARS start to finish... look at it like earning a DEGREE. Some marriages will turn earlier about step 1.6. Remember I could be just making all this up...you to have some faith I know what I'm doing.

T2


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I remember your posts from last year. January 2012 was your deadline for your wife to have sex with you. The goalpost keeps moving; now it is December 2012? That will make it 3 years? I am very sorry that you find yourself in this position, but I do not understand how you want to help others with a plan that has not yet worked for you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I guarantee nothing other than guarantees that you will learn about women's minds... and you will simply become a better man....
> As to whether YOUR marriage turns around that's 100% up to you.


Wait, YOU are giving other men insight into the mind of a woman? Look, not every sexless marriage is a result of a bad childhood with the woman's father, nor the fact that she had ex-boyfriends who messed with her mind. SOMETIMES (and no, I don't believe this is the majority), women do it out of spite because the husband did something that she didn't like. And, rather than discuss the issue with her husband, she just withholds sex from him. No, I am not saying she is right in doing so. What I am saying is that not all sexless marriages are created equal. Not all sexless marriages are due to a woman with daddy issues.

Look, I don't think anyone should be withholding sex... neither man nor woman (and yes, some men do withhold it). I don't think it's right for ANYONE to have to deal with a sexless marriage. But to say "Hey guys, this is why your marriage is sexless...and this his how you're gonna fix it." is misleading. You can say "Hey, this is what it took for mine to get back on track, so if yours is like mine, give it a shot."

Oh, and you still didn't answer those who asked if your marriage is still sexless or not. Saying it's "getting back on track" is not saying a definitive "yes, we are now having sex again". People will be more receptive if you state, outright, whether you are no longer sexless. 

But what do I know? I'm a woman who had checked out of her marriage and withheld for over a month at a time a few times in two years, and withheld for two weeks on a regular basis during that time. It wasn't my husband's actions that did it, but my own. I realized I was being stupid and chose to change my line of thinking...without his influence on the matter. It only works if the wife is willing to do it. Plain and simple. Even if she is still in the house. If she doesn't want to go along with it, she won't.

But that's JMO.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will be honest YES..I'm at the end of a ten month stretch. Best thing I'm good... why THE PLAN...How many current sexless guys can say they are OK without sex? I can. You will notice I used to be on TAM all the time searching for answers, I've been gone implementing the answers and now I'm back.


Usually, men in sexless marriages are interested in having sex. Not many are simply looking for ways to enjoy the lack of sex.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Remember I could be just making all this up...you to have some faith I know what I'm doing.


Why? Look, I think it's great that you're passionate about your marriage. But that's only half of the equation for helping people. You have to be passionate about an effective strategy. And an effective strategy is one that results in sex.

That's one of the things that resonates about Athol Kay's book. He has sex with his wife almost daily. A man in a sexless marriage will take note of that fact. That's a success story. If you do what he does, you might just get what he's got.

No offense, but your story seems similar to a 500lb man selling diet books. He hasn't lost any weight yet, but wants you to trust that he knows what he's doing. It's much more effective to be able to use the "after" picture along with the "before" picture.

I recommend that you finish your strategy and come back to post these threads when you and your wife are actually having sex. That will resonate with people much more than your confidence, which has proven misplaced in the past.

Good luck.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Those of you cluttering up this thread are doing it a dis-service.

I asked guys to print stuff out and extra 'noise' eats up paper.... save a freaking tree.

There are many sexless marriages where guys are at a complete and total loss.... I am here to help. I ask respectfully that you don't throw stones just to do that.

I know its a solid plan... most of the time the WIFE did not learn to relate to a man... otherwise the marriage would never ever had gone sexless. 

Also, You are right the husband DID THINGS WRONG.... could be a simple as not carrying groceries once, or not dancing with your wife at an event. Could be anything... ALL women have a ROLEDEX with every single slight going back to the day you met her...you Know this to be true.if you are Woman.
Men forgive move on.. Women have to trust again
BIG DIFFERENCE

We will correct this flaw in your wife. Your wife is equally flawed and willing to RISK your marriage by not having enough good satisfying fun sex with you her husband. That's the issue.

So again I ask keep the threads* clean *and let guys decide if what I have to say will work in their marriages. I am not here to pick any fights and frankly its a waste of my time to respond to those casting stones..I'm here to help those who want a plan that worked using NEW methods.

If you don't like it GO if you do like it stay. I want to help sexless men in sexless marriages.
Quit confusing the thread... I'm sure YOU ALL HAVE A BRAIN to make your own conclusions so use it and make your own path. 

AS for he 'frequency' that will be entirely up to you guys... I suggest for best results its not completely one sided and somewhere near the middle of your drives. You want it to seem fair so it lasts for life...possibly getting more towards your end later in life but likely never worse... definitely not sexless.... but balanced with your say in the matter. I'm not going to tell you guys what to do I will give you the framework and the method...rest is up to you.

I do know womens minds as I've interviewed them and read books. DO you as a woman really know a mans mind? Have you interviewed other men? Doubt it!
If you did we wouldn't be having THIS discussion in the first place... you blame the husband but you wives most assuredly had an equal hand in everything. No one is a saint and most any marriage at anytime may go sexless or sucky sex for life. Thus this forum.

This is about men becoming men their wives want and re-engineering your wifes brain.
This isn't a ***** session.
You won't find THE PLAN in books or online only here for TAM.
Its too bold for prime time..but guess what it WORKS in my marriage and possibly many others!

Best of all it lets a sexless guy cope... and get grounded while working THE ISSUE on a DEADLINE. This is not the way a female thinks this is for guys who feel lost.

Best of all your wife will RESPECT you enough to have SEX with you on your terms for life in some cases... It will occur in my life... so this is a case study too.

I make ZERO guarantees this will work for YOU. I do think it will get you to look at sexlessness as a short-term marital Issue and an opportunity that will need to be resolved in time for a better balanced marriage. Instead of a life sentence.
If you are not a guy... zip it this is for guys who are seeking help for a sexless marriage.
Your choice if you follow or care what I say..I'm doing this because TAM helped me immensely. Women we love you but unfortunately you have TOO MUCH POWER over sex AND you over think things. YOU are just as flawed as we are and way more complex. I am simply evening the playing field. To many naysayers and I'm out...not worth my time.

You simply cannot cast stones when I'm living it. I'm simply here to help some guys trapped in sexless marriages with no plan how to change that. I'm sure those guys would like me to stay on topic and not defending out of place ridicule. 
Guys interested in this thread start thinking like a man... don't accept unjust criticism. You will teach your wife this simple concept. We lead her. Contrary to typical nice guy thinking..only have to do it once at the right moment. You will take charge of your marriage and correct the dynamic that got you here.. Best of all she has no clue. You will change and remain a better version of you..that is what she needs TO MAKE CERTAIN YOU GET ALL THE SEX YOU NEED THE WAY YOU NEED WITH HER INVOLVED FULLY..its a requirement you change for that to happen in your lives. Nice but better.


T2


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I look forward to your posts, but why does this come to my mind:


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

What about a thread for WOMEN dealing with a SEXLESS Marriage--any men out there denying their wives sex want to own up on this one?

I know I'd read it...


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## Bereft (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you for your effort. I like that you have a plan. I have no plan, save self improvement. I like the confidence you display. I trust that it is working for you. After five years in a completely sexless marriage, I am certainly open to a more comprehensive approach. I believe that Athol Kay's way is probably worth a try, but I don't plan on buying the book. Not that it is not worth it, but just because he scored, it doesn't mean I will. And your plan may be just as valid, but with either, I would have hope that I will score. Hope springs eternal.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Yes, I remember your threads. Sorry. No 3 year plan makes sense, and from what I remeber you weren't successful. Forget this plan of yours. Read Married Man's sex life, No More Mr. Nice Guy and set consequences. Set what your willing to accept and what you won't. If you don't get the respect and attention you need... MOVE ON! This is just sad.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> I look forward to your posts, but why does this come to my mind:
> 
> View attachment 1608


"Cause you know he can't do this all day" .


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Okay T2 I'm listening and reading. Perhaps you have some info that has not been flogged to death. New info is always welcome. If you would kindly let us interested followers know what/where you read something ( the name of the book ) that would be appreciated.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> What about a thread for WOMEN dealing with a SEXLESS Marriage--any men out there denying their wives sex want to own up on this one?
> 
> I know I'd read it...



Exactly what i was thinking!!! 

I am pretty much in a sexless marriage (but not) long story.. I would LOVE to know how to fix it. I have pretty much given up ever having a "normal" sex life!


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

This is a great initiative, you are on to something here. I think the lack of good sex is a big issue in many marriages, and an even bigger taboo, even on TAM.

Keep on working on it, you have now some raw material with many good points, but it needs to be transformed by experience and inputs from other people.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Holy crap, he's written a novel!!!


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Next up, Amazon self publishing!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Let me just comment..

You say no plan is 'worth' three years? 
Let me put it this way...

It took YEARS for your wife to build up enough in her mind to see you as a chore. Her mind will NOT change overnight, her mind will NOT change in months. YOU stunk the place up for years...takes a while to air the marriage out.

Best you can hope for with a several month approach is a SHODDY fix. Do you really want to FRIGHTEN YOUR WIFE with consequences at this stage to get her to have sex? How good will that sex be? How much will she love it?

My plan and this was on purpose to look at this as a mind re-engineering... take years to become slightly more ALPHA, years to let your wifes opinion of you change,you do this by CONSISTENCY, then at the end of the process your wife will find she has a choice.....

1. Have a balanced marriage with a husband she now sees as DEFINITELY her best option with a NEW sex life she now completely understands as 100% necessary from here on out. AND fix the ongoing ONE ISSUE in your marrige.

2. Or NOT

She will in most every case pick 1.... I will tell you why later.


It took years to get you guys HERE it will take years to get you guys THERE.

Q: Is three years of pain worth "Loving sex the way YOU need it for the rest of your life?"
AND completely changing the priority of SEX in your wife's mind for ever?

Its not ALL about just getting sex... its about you leading your wife to a NEW balanced 
marriage and about YOU becoming a better man and the husband you should have been all along.

AS for the request for a reading list...in time I will mention some resources FOR NOW I want you sexless guys to relax... calm down. YOU NEED to stop looking for a QUICK FIX. You don't need to read the books yet. 

ONe final thought for now: YOU promised your wife to take care of her through sickness and health...you made her sick of sex WITH YOU.

Thats all. 

T2


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

He's back!!!!!! I am so sorry that this charade continues. Are you still rubbing her feet every night and and bending over backwards?

Is she still dressing provocatively and going out with friends without you?

Have you seen a therapist or professional? 

You are obsessed chasing something that is not there.

Your wife is a cruel unfeeling woman, knowing where you stand and either not working at making it better or throwing you out the door so you can find someone who will give you the love, caring, compassion and sex you want. 

I encourage everyone to read his threads:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...interpret-text-my-wife-ladies-standpoint.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...ife-now-physically-we-recover-disconnect.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...turn-off-emotions-do-they-ever-turn-back.html

Or any of the threads he has started

I feel very sad for you, yet can't help myself and the fascination I feel.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

justbidingtime said:


> He's back!!!!!! I am so sorry that this charade continues. Are you still rubbing her feet every night and and bending over backwards?
> 
> Is she still dressing provocatively and going out with friends without you.
> 
> ...


Feel free to read those but not everything in those threads works. That was me going through the process and finding my way... They do show how tough my wife was to crack,
Now she is a completely different woman who respects me.

This is me now. I got better.
I made mistakes that you will learn not to do.
I will filter the good steps and the big picture and leave out stuff that didn't work.
Keep in mind I didn't post everything I was doing in the background on TAM... 
Going though the process gives you that perspective.

Also almost all positive changes were during the time I was not on TAM

Making a hamburger from start to finish is a process better left hidden.
In fact you are probably better off not reading those to stay on task. They are noise.

I ask you all .... LEAVE MY WIFE THE **** ALONE. I love her and you will not make any assumptions about HER. She is my wife and I have loved and adored her from day 1. AND yes she is HOT!

This is about you not me. I've already been there done that.

You can criticize me if you want NOT my wife. But again naysayers you are doing sexless guys a disservice...I am here to help.

T2


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

And you still are not being honest with those who asked questions and evade the point you have not consummated anything and have still written this manifesto.

I asked whether you have seen a counselor or therapist? Has your wife? 

Is she still going out often?

Do you discuss the "situation"?

Do you still rub her feet?

How many times have you as you claim, been able to have sex, but something got in the way? How many romantic nights away have been blown off or not consummated?

Again I am fascinated, but again feel very sad for you.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

F man...I mean at this point I just want to give you a hug. You STILL have seen zero in the way of sex from your wife? You're at the end of a 10 month stretch? How can you write a guide for us men in your position if you've seen no improvement.

Let me be as blunt as I can be so that this sinks in for you. 

Question: How does one measure improvement in a sexless marriage?
Answer: Having sex.

I see you're insulted that people here are asking what tangible improvements you've noted? It's a logical question for someone who has continually said they have fixed their sexless marriage. So...what has changed? 

If your answer is anything less than having regular sex with your wife than I don't think it will work for me. I don't want to be okay to live without sex from my wife. That's no life at all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I ask you all .... LEAVE MY WIFE THE **** ALONE. I love her and you will not make any assumptions about HER. She is my wife and I have loved and adored her from day 1. AND yes she is HOT!
> 
> This is about you not me. I've already been there done that.
> 
> ...


T2, I think the main problem with some of the "naysayers" as you have called them, is that you skirt around the questions asked. Justbidingtime asked specific questions about PAST behavior because if those behaviors are still occurring, how is there an improvement in the relationship? Look, I'm not gonna call your wife names or attack her character. However, if you are still not having sex, what HAS improved? As Sinnister said, "Question: How does one measure improvement in a sexless marriage? Answer: Having sex." Maybe there are some men in sexless marriages who will agree with you. But, for the majority, I think it is fair to say that they aren't gonna follow a guide that shows no tangible results: i.e. SEX.

I do applaud you for hanging on so long. Honestly? I couldn't do it. If my husband's actions were forcing us into a sexless existence, I don't think I would stick around. I can't say for certain, obviously, because the longest stretch we have gone was a month. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if HER behavior has remained the same, and you are STILL sexless... how does that equal a working plan? Also, have you done a blog on this or anything? It might be easier if you have one, and if it chronicles your journey, people might relate to it better. And, deliberately omitting things that, in your opinion, don't work, is not a good idea either. Why? Because those BAD ideas, for you, may actually be GOOD ideas for someone else. At the very least, you tell them that this didn't work, and why. It is, essentially, a scientific study, right? In any study, you take the good with the bad, and you analyze it all. Well, in any experiments I had to do anyway...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't care about what any of you think. I am NOT here to defend myself. 

Like I say too many naysayers and I'm OUT... I don't have time to constantly respond to criticism. I have other stuff to do.

Its sad all you judge things on is SEX we are talking about re-booting the marriage and correcting the dynamics. SEX will come once that happens.

I feel sad for you that are hurting. I'm not and I will have sex.
Only reason I posted early is I can now see the goal-line and since this process takes TIME
I wanted to get all of you started on it.

All you have to look at...is my complete lack of posting here on TAM to know things are MUCH BETTER in my life. Whatever if I help one trapped in a sexless marriage who deeply loves his wife this is worth it. Keep focused on the goal.

Sinister... You are not willing to put in the effort then.

T2


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

T2, how has your wife shown you respect? what have you done that has worked? what has not? and the why to both (results), I commend you on becomming a better you, but if your doing it just for your wife, then I feel that you are really doing it for the wrong reasons.

Becoming a better man is for YOU and you alone, your wife finding a new found interest in you (or rekindling old interests) is a by product of becoming a better you...is this point you are at?


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> T2, how has your wife shown you respect? what have you done that has worked? what has not? and the why to both (results), I commend you on becomming a better you, but if your doing it just for your wife, then I feel that you are really doing it for the wrong reasons.
> 
> Becoming a better man is for YOU and you alone, your wife finding a new found interest in you (or rekindling old interests) is a by product of becoming a better you...is this point you are at?


The point is she has not shown him respect. This is abundantly clear from the posts and the old threads. The fact he disappeared from TAM and has returned with absolutely no concrete results but more proclemations (though muted from his older posts), makes me more and more concerned for him.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Once more... this is not about me... this is about you.

I am not going to respond to questions in the light of "Where's the proof, what is going on etc"
*I'm not even going to tell you when my wife and I reach 2.0* until the end of the series.
You have to fix your own marriages.

Also the old threads are drumrooooooooooollllllllll OLD

I am not here to convince you of anything

I am here to give you a SOLID PLAN and it YOUR CHOICE if you want to recover sex in your marriage with your wife AND correct your marriage dynamics.

Every marriage will resolve the sexless issue at a different rate.

You either choose to use stuff in my plan or not. I have already gone through it. LIVED IT.
I enjoy the change in my wife and in myself. Our life is now balanced and our new sexlife is the start of 2.0

Its going to take all of you to take a leap of faith. Quit questioning the 'result'.

FACT is I don't want sex until she wants sex too (for life)... get it?

A PERMANENT FIX

Think of the process like melting an ICEBERG. SLOW then all the sudden gone and converted into a new state. I've been melting that iceberg for almost 3 years. Its now an ice cube on a hot day in the sun.

T2


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't care about what any of you think. I am NOT here to defend myself.
> 
> Like I say too many naysayers and I'm OUT... I don't have time to constantly respond to criticism. I have other stuff to do.
> 
> ...


I am willing to do whatever works T2. I don't talk a lot about my situation cause it's not my style but here goes.

I've gone 18 months without it. I am currently on another 3 month stint without it. I get the occasional hug here and there, sometimes I get a peck on the lips, but for the most part intimacy is dead.

I have tried everything.I have tried reasoning, I have tired screaming, I have tried to see her perspective, I have tried upping my looks, I have tried doing extra chores, I have tried keeping busy with hobbies. Nothing works. I would do ANYTHING if it works. If it WORKS. I love her more than anything in this world.

You ever see a big ass black dude crying for intimacy from his wife? It's the saddest most pathetic thing this world has ever seen - and nope that didnt work either. I am at the point where other woman are looking so damn good to me right now it's dangerous.

So no T2. I am not here to call you out or ridicule you. I actually would follow your guide - all in, no holds barred if you could tell me it works and not that you can see the finish line. Tell me you finally scored!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't care about what any of you think. I am NOT here to defend myself.


Look, your post has the tone of an infomercial. You're trying to put out a product. You're plying the T2 Plan for Sexless Marriages™. So now you have to be willing to understand that criticism and questions on your plan are not criticism and questions about you. You are separate from your plan.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Like I say too many naysayers and I'm OUT... I don't have time to constantly respond to criticism. I have other stuff to do.


That's your choice. Personally, I think that a 3-year plan for a sexless marriage that does NOT result in sex is a failure. Now, I'm not saying that your plan would fail for everyone. It's just failed for you. And I'm also not saying that your plan won't ever succeed. Maybe it's actually a 4-year plan, or a 5-year plan. But, I think a plan that takes less than 3-years to implement successfully would be better than your plan. Sorry if that makes me a naysayer.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Its sad all you judge things on is SEX we are talking about re-booting the marriage and correcting the dynamics. SEX will come once that happens.


You sound like a LD spouse in a sexless marriage. "All you care about is sex." Well, that's not ALL we care about. But, you are posting a guide to *sexless* recovery on the *Sex in Marriage* board. So, I think it's natural that sex is the primary concern.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I feel sad for you that are hurting. I'm not and I will have sex.


It's great that you can be happy in a sexless marriage. Most men can't be. FWIW, I think you would face less critical posts if you re-titled your thread, "A nice guys guide on how to be happy in a sexless marriage."



Trying2figureitout said:


> Only reason I posted early is I can now see the goal-line and since this process takes TIME I wanted to get all of you started on it.


I go back to my earlier post. Your process would have more credibility if you posted it AFTER you have had sex with your wife. If you can claim that you went from having sex 15 times per year, to not having sex for 10 months, to having sex twice a week, people would take notice of your success story. Right now, you say you can see the goal line. But you've said that in the past. A year ago, you were also "almost there." You should just get there and then report back.

If Athol Kay had started writing his MMSL blog when he was an unmarried beta turning down girls who wanted to have sex, he wouldn't have garnered much of a following. But once he got married, took the red pill, and had sex with his wife a gazillion times in all kinds of ways, lots of us took notice.

I hope your system works. I hope that, this time, you really are close to having sex with your wife. I have my doubts. But, I hope I'm wrong.

Good luck.


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't make a guide if you can't handle the critics.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Once more... this is not about me... this is about you.
> 
> I am not going to respond to questions in the light of "Where's the proof, what is going on etc"
> 
> ...


T2, you are missing the point. People are asking about YOU because we learn by example. They want to know WHAT worked and HOW it worked, FOR YOU. Why?

**DRUMROLL**............ how can you say "it works" without giving examples of HOW it works? If you don't give examples, then frankly, people will think you have no idea what you are talking about. That's the way it is with anything in life. "How is that working for you?" (I just channeled Dr. Phil! )... they need to see HOW it works... right now, you are not showing that. Right now, people are seeing a "do as I say, not as I do", even if that is not your intent. People want concrete evidence to support these things. Even if all you do is list the things that worked for you, and address them point by point in later posts. It is a method that works.

But, when people ask questions and you deflect, it just makes more think "yep, another guy who doesn't know what he's talking about." And no, that's not what I am saying about you. But I think that is what many are thinking when reading this thread....because you refuse to give examples as to what changed in your relationship. If you want people to change, based on your own findings, you have to give them examples. When asked if any behavior has been modified, simply answer yes or no. If it is a slight improvement, say so. The point is, you need to give examples in YOUR marriage on how things have changed if you have any chance of reaching even ONE person. If no one sees that things have changed in the relationship, they won't be willing to give it a try. 

Just a thought...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

One last time ... this is all noise.

Keep your eye on the GOAL... I do.

T2


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Looking forward to see what you write in the guide, and I hope it works out for you. 

As others have said, there is already a great guide - MMSL. My W has zero drive, at least for me, but we generally have s** twice/week. I used the MMSL and NMMNG info to make that happen.

This is actually very simple, and very hard. Make yourself more attractive to ALL women. Your W will notice, and SOMETHING (good or bad) will happen. How do you make yourself more attractive? Hit the gym like a mofo, buy better clothes, pay a few bucks more for a decent haircut. Go do some dude interests/hobbies vs. flopping on the sofa in front of the TV. Build confidence by doing these things + reading the material I posted above, plus books like The Way of The Superior Man. 

Be the leader of your house. Be her rock that she can depend on. Maybe the main thing...know in your heart/mind that you can and will walk away if the marriage isn't working for you. You won't need to tell her that...she'll know.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

so by convincing yourself that you don't need sex and you'll wait till she wants it. (YOU CALL THAT GOLD ?) please i'm sure she loves that you finally stopped asking her for sex. you are wasting your time with all of this.

if your relationship is better it's only because she doesn't have the stress of you asking her for sex defiantly not because of your plan 
and in the end you will lose out not her.

like i said she has to want to change for it to happen. if not you will wait forever one day you will wake up and you'll be 50 years old wondering why you wasted your life with someone who doesn't want you.

why put yourself through 3 years of no sex with the hope that one day she will wake and do a 360. your wasting your time. accept it and move on


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

sinnister said:


> You ever see a big azz black dude crying for intimacy from his wife? It's the saddest most pathetic thing this world has ever seen


Damn, man, that made me sad. I don't know your story, but if you haven't REALLY dug into the usual recommended material for this (MMSL, NMMNG, WOTSM), you need to...ASAP.

And...don't ever FN cry to your W for intimacy again. That just makes things worse. If you feel the need to, just go outside and scream instead.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

There is no time "wasted" when you are trying to live life in a way to get your wife to fall back in love with you.

To the poster who has sex with wife twice a week using the MAN UP and MMSL ...great but as you say she has no drive.. so what is she getting out of it? Not losing you but at the same time resenting it.
and you have to ask WHY? doesn't she have a drive FOR YOU.
That is not acceptable in my marriage.

MY plan involves the same general concepts... my approach is more surgical and there is a point your wife will have a choice... key is to get to that point with the odds drastically/astronomically in your favor . Her mind has to process things over time for her to WANT sex with you again and be concerned if you aren't getting enough sex for life.

..and I never "ask" my wife for sex... never did. That's weak I do talk of my drive and what it means to me...my thoughts at key moments.

3 years of low sex..pretty much like you have now anyhow. Your wife isn't into you sexually anyhow right now.
Marriage 2.0: Shes into you and raises her priority sex by leaps and bounds. FOR LIFE.

All succcess stories involve that one..."Lightbulb momement" we will get your wife there. Since she can't on her own.

T2


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

if someone has to spend years and year's trying to get there wife to fall back in love with them then they are beating a dead horse.
it shouldn't take that long. when you can be spending your time with someone who wants to be with you.

read the post that guy's post here: 
i'm fit, i clean house,i have a good job, i take care of my wife, i take care of the kids, i pay the bills why wont my wife have sex with me. 

why are all these relationships one sided? it's because the wife's are no longer attracted to there husbands simple as that. and to get the attraction back is almost impossible. that's why i say this plan is flawed in so many ways. you cannot trick her into falling back in love with you if she doesn't want it. it's a lost cause in 95% of the cases.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

downfall69 said:


> if someone has to spend years and year's trying to get there wife to fall back in love with them then they are beating a dead horse.
> it shouldn't take that long. when you can be spending your time with someone who wants to be with you.


It depends on what your wife's issues are. If you've just been acting too beta, then a few months of alpha will probably attract your wife. However, if you earn $20k/year and weigh 350lbs, it will take years to fix that.



downfall69 said:


> why are all these relationships one sided? it's because the wife's are no longer attracted to there husbands simple as that. and to get the attraction back is almost impossible. that's why i say this plan is flawed in so many ways. you cannot trick her into falling back in love with you if she doesn't want it. it's a lost cause in 95% of the cases.


I disagree. In most cases, women marry men they are attracted to. Then, they lose that attraction. If these men can turn back the clock so that they look more like they used to and act more like they used to, the attraction may very well return.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

downfall69 said:


> if someone has to spend years and year's trying to get there wife to fall back in love with them then they are beating a dead horse.
> it shouldn't take that long. when you can be spending your time with someone who wants to be with you.
> 
> read the post that guy's post here:
> ...


While true however he did get her to fall in love with him once so he knows what she likes or doesnt like I feel that he would need to go back to where they first started going out and become that person doing things that they did when they were younger and falling in love thats how to get her to fall in love with him again -JMO


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am so sorry for you. You seem to live to delude yourself. I am not concerned about myself. Sex has never been a problem in my relationships. My significant other wants nothing more than to please me. My concern here is any reader that takes your message as a guide for themselves.Your posts read like a huckster selling snake oil. I don't want anyone to assume that you have actually been successful.

Please get some professional help.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

thunderstruck said:


> Damn, man, that made me sad. I don't know your story, but if you haven't REALLY dug into the usual recommended material for this (MMSL, NMMNG, WOTSM), you need to...ASAP.
> 
> And...don't ever FN cry to your W for intimacy again. That just makes things worse. If you feel the need to, just go outside and scream instead.


Part of my problem is my intelligence. I am so intelligent (and modest as you can tell ) that I end up being stupid. I'm not a reader so I've been avoiding MMSL adn NMMNG. I've read the basic tenants of NMMNG and I don't think it applies to me. But MMSL is definately a read I need to make an exception for.

I no longer cry or exhibit any kind of frustration about the situation. We had a long chat on a road trip recently about it and her only excuse was that she's still very tired. That has been her excuse since my first was born 6 years ago. Then my second was born 3 years ago and she's still tired. Don't let the children fool you they were conceived VERY quickly. 

And T2, I will read your guide. Anybody who's got something to say about fixing this misery I will digest and apply to my life. Please don't take offense to curiosity about tangible results. It's a natural thought process to want to know how things will end up.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> It depends on what your wife's issues are. If you've just been acting too beta, then a few months of alpha will probably attract your wife. However, if you earn $20k/year and weigh 350lbs, it will take years to fix that.
> 
> for sure if you 180 pounds when you met and now you weigh 350 of course she will lose interest. and if she lost interest it's very hard to get it back if not impossible
> 
> I disagree. In most cases, women marry men they are attracted to. Then, they lose that attraction. If these men can turn back the clock so that they look more like they used to and act more like they used to, the attraction may very well return.


it is hard to turn back the clock and that's what most men spend years trying to do with very little success as proven on the forum many times


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Here from T2 October 4, 2011..... 

*2 years!

My wife says "She's trying" but our sex life has taken a serious hit only twice in 20!!, 5 times in 2010 down from a regular rate of 15+ previous 18 years.

All "issues" addressed but she still seems to hold onto little slights going back 18 years. Also the things I said like "Our sex life has never been at my desired level" which is honest I'd like it twice a week!

Finally with now agreed upon monthly talks from now until resolved she seems to be nicer, not that she wasn't but a different nice. I told her we will either get closer or further apart (up to divorce) but that the last two years were unacceptable for both of us. She did not disagree.

She has stated it's her and specifically her feelings (more than once).... she flat out refuses counseling "How are they going to change my feelings"

I agree... it has to come from her.

She admits I changed already and really appreciates my efforts.

Other than that we get along great... but both of us report some unhappiness.

It seems like shes motivated (due to the monthly conversations) to try harder now to flip it back on... can she?

We hugged that night two years ago and she said it would just take some time.
We agreed to strengthen the marriage... two years ago


Do these switches turn back on? I think it flipped one night two years ago off.
My thinking is sex will help, it's harder to increase feelings without!

I figure she will get tired of talking every month and this may just jump start the whole mess.
I've already tried twice the give her plenty of space for six month stretches that equaled no action.

Thanks ladies. I love her but geeez!
*

One year later and nothing. He claims a breakthrough soon and I see someone on the verge of a nervous breakdown. 

The only good thing I see is that he is using porn to masturbate and at least gets some relief.

At times I feel very sorry for him, other times it is the rants of a deranged, lunatic far removed from reality.

I would like him to answer my questions, but there is really only one important question..... HAVE YOU TALKED TO A COUNSELOR??????? There is a button to click below and I really hope you click it!!!!!


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

Sex releases endorphins associated with love. No sex means these endorphins are not released and your just distancing yourself further.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

thegatewalker said:


> Sex releases endorphins associated with love. No sex means these endorphins are not released and your just distancing yourself further.


For him yes, for her?? if she dosent want to.............:scratchhead:


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I do not need a counselor...and yes at some points I simply cannot function, at some points I am flat out crazy. That is why sexless marriages are THE ISSUE.

THE ISSUE needs resolved...my plan pencils out the framework.

I ask one thing... Please do not clutter future threads. I only want comments from those implementing THE PLAN... anyone else SHUT IT.

My plan can work in any marriage... it brings THE ISSUE to light and lets you define (in your mind) a beginning and ending point. The "black box" between those two points in time is your wife's MIND. Sex starts in you wife's MIND.

Its the method of thinking about this as a temporary ISSUE that will take time to resolve... the difference with my PLAN is the husbands are secretly speeding up the process at key points. Getting the messy stuff done early, reinforcing the message at key points (based on the scenario at the time), so she has time to process everything and re-evaluate her marriage to you and your needs. She will become an EXPERT on your needs. She will want to 100% fulfill your needs. FOR LIFE.

Because a wife simply does NOT think about this all the time like the husband does... at key points we get our wives ... educated, we communicate, and give her lots of time to observe YOU and lots of time for you to observe HER.

So again this is meant to help and will help any marriage going through a sexless period.
This PLAN will drastically improve your odds of success and will create such DRAMA that neither of you will 
EVER go through it again.

The reason for TIME is at the end she WILL want to have sex with you. She will be concerned that you are getting enough sex from HER.

The two-three year period allows a MAN to inform his wife of EVERTHING you need for a happy marriage in increments so that when she reaches the final decision point she has all the cards on the table and has choice A or B. In almost every case she will OF COURSE pick choice A because you have already won her heart back...you will simply be HER BEST OPTION and You will have a chance to BLAST HER TO HIGH HEAVEN and have her smiling at the end of this process. Marriage 2.0

Better yet you will convince HER it is not just sex you want and that SEX is a requirement for the rest of our lives together because of our marriage to one another.

You will lead her.
You will become a better you, she will become a better HER.
She has been waiting YEARS for you to take the lead. She's tired.

T2


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

ok, lay the plan out already.......


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

downfall69 said:


> for sure if you 180 pounds when you met and now you weigh 350 of course she will lose interest. and if she lost interest it's very hard to get it back if not impossible


It depends on whether you address the issue. Most women aren't attracted to obese men. If a husband became obese, and his wife lost attraction to him because of it, then it stands to reason that his losing the weight would bring back the attraction.


downfall69 said:


> it is hard to turn back the clock and that's what most men spend years trying to do with very little success as proven on the forum many times


I disagree that most men try to turn back the clock. Most men try to beta their wives into more sex. Maybe if they just do one more load of laundry, or buy her one more trinket, the sex will follow. But, when they were dating, they weren't doing laundry and buying trinkets. I think very few men address their lack of alpha by adding alpha. It's much more common for them to add beta. And it doesn't work.


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

If she doesn't want to I change her mind. I don't ask I just do.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

*
2 years!

My wife says "She's trying" but our sex life has taken a serious hit only twice in 20!!, 5 times in 2010 down from a regular rate of 15+ previous 18 years.

All "issues" addressed but she still seems to hold onto little slights going back 18 years. Also the things I said like "Our sex life has never been at my desired level" which is honest I'd like it twice a week!

Finally with now agreed upon monthly talks from now until resolved she seems to be nicer, not that she wasn't but a different nice. I told her we will either get closer or further apart (up to divorce) but that the last two years were unacceptable for both of us. She did not disagree.

She has stated it's her and specifically her feelings (more than once).... she flat out refuses counseling "How are they going to change my feelings"

I agree... it has to come from her.

She admits I changed already and really appreciates my efforts.

Other than that we get along great... but both of us report some unhappiness.

It seems like shes motivated (due to the monthly conversations) to try harder now to flip it back on... can she?

We hugged that night two years ago and she said it would just take some time.
We agreed to strengthen the marriage... two years ago


Do these switches turn back on? I think it flipped one night two years ago off.
My thinking is sex will help, it's harder to increase feelings without!

I figure she will get tired of talking every month and this may just jump start the whole mess.
I've already tried twice the give her plenty of space for six month stretches that equaled no action.*

Thanks ladies. I love her but geeez!
*


she says "she's trying " but you only had sex 5 times in 2010
and only 15 time's each year for 18 year's. WAKE UP.
now all she has to do is have "the talk" with you once a month to get you off her back. i'm sure she is loving it.

she said she see's you have changed and she appreciates it. (where is the change on her part) trying is not enough. talk is cheap.

that's the problem many guy's have. they have "the talk " with there wife's over and over again and there wife's promise to change and try. this cycle goes on for years and years with little to no results and both wife and husband spend there life unhappy with each other*


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I ask one thing... Please do not clutter future threads. I only want comments from those implementing THE PLAN... anyone else SHUT IT.


I recommend www.blogger.com for your future threads. At that site, you can moderate all comments.



Trying2figureitout said:


> My plan can work in any marriage...


Given that it is yet to work in your marriage, how can you make this claim? As far as I can tell, your plan is 0-1.



Trying2figureitout said:


> The two-three year period allows a MAN to inform his wife of EVERTHING you need for a happy marriage in increments so that when she reaches the decision point she has all the cards on the table and has choice A or B. In almost every case she will OF COURSE pick choice A because you have already won her heart back. You will have a chance to BLAST HER TO HIGH HEAVEN and have her smiling at the end of this process. Marriage 2.0


Your plan requires women to make a rational choice? Good luck with that.


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## thegatewalker (Apr 29, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> anyone else SHUT IT.


You keep not having sex. Ill enjoy having it.


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## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

I have taken a few tidbits from your guide as well. However, I do see it more as a guide to adapt to sexlessness rather than end it. In my life, I am working to desexualize myself and transition to a platonic marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thegatewalker said:


> If she doesn't want to I change her mind. I don't ask I just do.


 I TOLD Gaia that you and my hubby were a lot alike! LOL He does too!

Of course, lately *I* am the one who is changing HIS mind.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sinnister,
When your wife is too tired for sex, but seems fully functional in every other area of their life, than "tired" is "code" for something else. If you don't find out WHAT the code is, you will never solve this. 

Common culprits:
- I resent that "I am pulling more weight than you are in the marriage". This could be "I resent earning more than you". Or resent that you don't do more around the house, with the kids. 

I am not saying any of that is even fair, just saying that if you don't know WHY she is avoiding sex, you will never solve it. 
- I don't really like having sex with you for "solvable reasons" or
- I don't really like having sex with you for "un-solvable reasons"

If she won't tell you what is attractive/unattractive to her, and why she avoids sex with you, than almost certainly she believes that what is broken is not fixable. She might be wrong, but if she refuses to communicate, there is zero chance of fixing this. 










sinnister said:


> Part of my problem is my intelligence. I am so intelligent (and modest as you can tell ) that I end up being stupid. I'm not a reader so I've been avoiding MMSL adn NMMNG. I've read the basic tenants of NMMNG and I don't think it applies to me. But MMSL is definately a read I need to make an exception for.
> 
> I no longer cry or exhibit any kind of frustration about the situation. We had a long chat on a road trip recently about it and her only excuse was that she's still very tired. That has been her excuse since my first was born 6 years ago. Then my second was born 3 years ago and she's still tired. Don't let the children fool you they were conceived VERY quickly.
> 
> And T2, I will read your guide. Anybody who's got something to say about fixing this misery I will digest and apply to my life. Please don't take offense to curiosity about tangible results. It's a natural thought process to want to know how things will end up.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I do not need a counselor...and yes at some points I simply cannot function, at some points I am flat out crazy. That is why sexless marriages are THE ISSUE.
> 
> THE ISSUE needs resolved...my plan pencils out the framework.
> 
> ...



I, for one, will continue to post warnings in any thread you create with your half baked "can work" plans until the mods ban me. I feel it is my moral obligation to warn hurting people who might foolishly believe you actually know something useful.


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## downfall69 (Sep 23, 2012)

:iagree: 100%


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

LOL, does it seem like OP's wife is saying "Jump through this hoop, no, this one, now this one, no not like that, do it again." And he is saying "yes maam, right away maam."


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I was lost, figured it out ..now I'm here at the top of the mountain looking down.

I will share what works, I will; leave out what doesn't.

KEEP IN MIND...I made HUGE mistakes early that took me this long to have her process.

You all will have the benefit of knowing what NOT TO DO.

I suspect many of your marriages will turn around earlier than mine did..but keep in mind you are not me.

I am a FANTASTIC letter writer. YOu will have to become your own letter writer. I did not used to be one but the last several years have made me one...

Let me give you a little idea of the end game....

In the past year (actually 10 months..I cheated a bit on the year timeframe) I communicated with my wife ONCE about our issue and it was this past weekend... this will be the LAST time I do that THE ISSUE is now resolved. She has a choice to make. A or B or C. Marriage 2.0 or marriage 0.0 or her leaving the marriage.

You will decide what choice B ultimately is BUT she will know you are serious.
The whole goal is to give her an easy choice...a sexual marriage with YOU.
Choice A

T2

All gravy from here on out. My climb is OVER. So is hers.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

So are you going to post the plan? You're doing a great job hyping it up but remember you're marketing to dudes here.

I need the facts now and not more platitudes.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I suspect many of your marriages will turn around earlier than mine did


This is the type of stuff that you write that people are not willing to let stand unchallenged. In point of fact, your marriage has still not turned around, and you're still sexless. You say your wife has this a/b choice to make and you seem pretty confident that she'll choose the choice you want, but it still hasn't happened. What's more, I don't think you're any closer to enforcing hard consequences if she doesn't choose the choice you want than you were a year ago.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Sinnister,
> When your wife is too tired for sex, but seems fully functional in every other area of their life, than "tired" is "code" for something else. If you don't find out WHAT the code is, you will never solve this.
> 
> Common culprits:
> ...


Everything you say is correct MEM. She never wants to discuss this issue because she's very sexually repressed, so I was shocked when she told me she discussed it with some female work friends. They said that her drive will eventually return and that I should be patient. BS. It's been 6 years I'm not waiting another 6.

I've posted before that I have a number of things working against me:
Weight gain since marriage
Stress from work
Inactivity due to chronic pain from injuries

She has specifically told me that the inactivity is unattractive to her since when we first hooked up my pain was manageable and I was very active. The other thing is she perceives that I dont do enough around the house or with the kids. It's maddening how this woman re-writes history. Not sure if it's fixable but I'm sure as heck gonna try.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I just want to see the plan now.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

T2 you definitely have enthusiasm for your plan, I'll give you that.

So please quit trying to sell it, and just put it out there, maybe it will work maybe it wont, but if someone can take just one thing away from your plan that either works or does not work and evaluate it thoroughly...BEFORE!... applying it to thier situation, it's at least worth reading IMHO.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

One day my wifes sister comes over so my wife can help her pick out an suit for a business awards ceremony. My wife mentioned a nice skirt but her sister said she hadn't shaved her legs in months YES MONTHS! My wife says "Doesn't that bother you when you and your H have sex?" My SIL response was that "H knows better to even ask." I looked at my wife and said, "You EVER develop that attitude, I will throw your **** in the front yard!"

This also reminds me of the homeless guy standing on the street corner yelling "I can show you the way to riches!"


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Its my process... to help sexless guys minds change about just about everything.

What is the definition of insanity again?.....

I realize you all are men and men want answers NOW!

You will NOT get all the answers upfront because I need you guys to recondition your thoughts on your whole situation.

Here is what I'll do for YOU ALL in Steps 1.0 and 1.1 this will be the next installment.

I will layout the process in a nutshell. So you have the BIG PICTURE. The overall stages. NO specifics those will come later...

I will at key intervals present the current step.

I will let you know my specific situation at that stage and my results.

I will also let you know what I think is the "Do this for a sexless marriage" for dummies step is also with the benefit of looking back. Hindsight.

We will need to set the FOUNDATION so we are all operating from the EXACT SAME STARTING POINT (Except me as I'm done)...this will be YOUR ANCHOR.

Your situations are all over the board so we have to set a STARTING POINT so everyone is at the same point.

Then as time rolls on I will hint at the upcoming step and when it gets around that time I will post that steps DETAILS.

This series will not be rolled out in one big bow. You'll have to have faith OR find your own path on your own.
No sweat on my end.

You guys have to learn to act in STAGES. I did.

If you can't handle that I DON'T CARE all I am trying to do is save YOUR sexless marriages and turn them into sexual marriages.

So you guys have to suck it up..strap in and decide whether that is what you WANT...its hard it takes TIME.

NO QUICK FIX! Get that through your thick skulls now. Its hard and you will do things that initially will make you uncomfortable. You have to be committed to this 100% if you want it to work.

I will explain the LOGIC of each step as we go.
Its YOUR wives mind for heavens sake.

T2


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Is the "how to keep a sexless married dude in suspense?" thread? LOL


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> My plan can work in any marriage...


No, it can't work in ANY marriage. There are countless reasons why a spouse is zero/low drive, and one plan won't work for every case.



Sbrown said:


> Is the "how to keep a sxless married dude in suspense?" thread? LOL


More like the "OP wants attention" thread.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> .
> 
> 
> More like the "OP wants attention" thread.


:iagree::iagree:
BINGO! We have a winner!


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Does the OP realize he is messing with the emotions of very frustrated men?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Sbrown said:


> Does the OP realize he is messing with the emotions of very frustrated men?


If you define sexless as around once per month, then the OP has been near sexless for his entire marriage. Over the last 3 years, he's had sex only a few times. So he's frustrated.

His problem, which is understandable, is that he wants a solution. Everyone would. He needs hope. So, every few months, he creates a thread and announces the end of his troubles is in sight. He's seen the light. His wife has seen the light. He will be having sex very, very soon.

Yes, he's playing with your emotions. But, it's unintentional. It's just his personal defense mechanism. He can't accept that what he's doing isn't working. It's just that it needs another week, or month, or year, to be effective. It's sad.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sbrown said:


> Does the OP realize he is messing with the emotions of very frustrated men?


I don't care... if you don't like it GO.

I have THE PLAN and I will roll it out in for general consumption in stages. No one has to read or view this thread. You all have brains. Use them.

Attention getter no... Problem solver YES

I will calm the emotions of frustrated men.

I will stop the bleeding and get you on a solid foundation towards recovery. Rest is up to you.

You are right I WAS in a low frequency marriage all along my new marriage will not be low. It'll be lower than typical solely based on work schedules. Yet it will be satisfying to me. Marriage 2.0

By the way SEXLESS = 10 or less per year OR where desire levels are totally mismatched AND causing issues.

MY marriage will not have issues pertaining to sex again.

T2


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, come back and let us know how it unfolds.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PHT,
I agree. What T2 is doing is sad. His wife however is being predatory. She has no intention of ever having sex with him at any real frequency. This is one GIANT stall on her part because he earns much more than she does. 

For the folks following this thread, T2's approach is 100% beta. He has communicated his misery to his wife, but she hasn't had any real consequence to date. 

In his posts late last year T2 was guaranteeing a lifetime of a fantastic sex starting in January. His latest negotiating stance with her is two to three times a month. 

I suggested over a year ago that he insist on a basic demonstration of commitment on her part. For instance, that SHE give HIM a half hour back massage twice a week. Recall that his wife has the energy to work out at the gym for an hour or more EVERY DAY, so this seemed a minimal request. 

I have a very simplistic view of these type situations. If your spouse won't give you a half hour massage twice a week it has nothing to do with sex or desire. They simply don't care a lick about your wants/needs. It is fine for someone to choose to stay in a marriage like that, they simply need to accept that it is a parasitic arrangement. 

On top of all that, T2 has convinced himself that it is ok for his wife to hold stuff over his head that no man with a sliver of alpha would ever tolerate. For instance she is upset that he dared to tell her he would "like" to have sex twice a week. 

And of course she has an endless list of stuff like that. Because ultimately what it comes down to is this: Anything he says or does that she dislikes, is the basis for her completely deprioritizing him. It is not possible to have a healthy marriage when only one persons viewpoint matters. 




PHTlump said:


> If you define sexless as around once per month, then the OP has been near sexless for his entire marriage. Over the last 3 years, he's had sex only a few times. So he's frustrated.
> 
> His problem, which is understandable, is that he wants a solution. Everyone would. He needs hope. So, every few months, he creates a thread and announces the end of his troubles is in sight. He's seen the light. His wife has seen the light. He will be having sex very, very soon.
> 
> Yes, he's playing with your emotions. But, it's unintentional. It's just his personal defense mechanism. He can't accept that what he's doing isn't working. It's just that it needs another week, or month, or year, to be effective. It's sad.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> PHT,
> I agree. What T2 is doing is sad. His wife however is being predatory. She has no intention of ever having sex with him at any real frequency. This is one GIANT stall on her part because he earns much more than she does.
> 
> For the folks following this thread, T2's approach is 100% beta. He has communicated his misery to his wife, but she hasn't had any real consequence to date.
> ...


That was then this is now. Last year is last year. Necessary part of the process.
Unless you have a hidden camera on my life you don't know it all. 
Again my situation is resolved so it no longer applies.
Most of the changes in HER happened after my last posts.

So don't shoot the messenger...

Ever wonder why I left?
I didn't need TAM support anymore. Thankfully this place is DEPRESSING.

Look this stuff TAKES TIME.... LOTS OF TIME BEFORE YOU SEE MAJOR RESULTS.

Last year was too soon..I found that out. That's why I say 3 years. But last year was key. Especially after I stopped posting.

If you research sexless marriages you'll see that ones that turn around usually take 3-4 years. That 
represents a very small percent of all sexless marriages... many end or continue on indefinitely.

That was simply unacceptable for my marriage. So I came up with a bold new plan. It worked.
Nothing you read in books...some is but the key components are not.

All other plans stank or had you change wholesale... I'm already ok why should I pretend.
Better to work on HER mind over time.

I offer up the framework for that process.
First steps later this week.

I will have mine turned around before year 3. There WILL NOT be a year 4.

Each step builds on the last. Until you make yourself HER BEST OPTION.
Her mind has already been flipped in my case. This weekend was just the final step before
Marriage 2.0

Only do this if you are all-in. You need to be all-in to survive it.

For me its simple math...

17 years low sex
3 years virtually none
Rest of my life... ALL the sex I want and I need with my better wife along with our entire marriage dynamics corrected.

Q: Are you willing to give up to three years little sex for the rest with lots more sex?

If yes this plan may work for you.

At least my plan has stages... so you'll have benchmarks of progress. 
Possibly others posting support and sharing their results.

I thank my wife secretly for that ILYNILWY without that I'd still have low sex for life.
Full circle for me. she started the correction I completed the correction.

Don't be afraid of your wife. Be yourself.

T2


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> For the folks following this thread, T2's approach is 100% beta. He has communicated his misery to his wife, but she hasn't had any real consequence to date.


You're right. I don't remember his particulars as well as you. But, when he announces that one of the steps of his plan is to write a letter to your wife, it doesn't get any more beta than that.

Almost every beta who comes here complaining that his wife won't have sex with him wants to write her a letter. And it never works. 



MEM11363 said:


> On top of all that, T2 has convinced himself that it is ok for his wife to hold stuff over his head that no man with a sliver of alpha would ever tolerate. For instance she is upset that he dared to tell her he would "like" to have sex twice a week.


His posts do have a shade of Stockholm syndrome to them. He will defend his wife against anyone who suggests that she's not exactly loving, or even polite, to him. He seems like a 5 who married an 8 and is just happy to bask in her presence (fully clothed).


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, are you still in that dry spell?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> That was then this is now. Last year is last year. Necessary part of the process.


Good for you. I hope you really have grown past that.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Unless you have a hidden camera on my life you don't know it all.


We don't know it all. But, you have told us that you haven't had sex in 10 months. And that is the most pertinent fact in this scenario.

Maybe your wife has promised you sex soon. Maybe she has guaranteed it. Frankly, I don't care. I don't believe her. I will believe it when you come on here and post that you have had sex. Hell, I'll join you in your touchdown dance.

That's what I want for you, and for all men (and women) in sexless marriages. Anything less is just rationalization.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Ever wonder why I left?


Again, we're just trying to help. None of us are paid. We have been through rough patches. We want to help others who are in rough patches. One of the ways we can help others is to steer them away from unhelpful, unsuccessful, advice.

But, I wish you luck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Women who are into their men don't need all this BS to have sex.

Nope.

But...doesn't matter what I say, because you've got a plan. A plan I hope works for you...but has ANYTHING worked for you?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
Honestly I figured that you left TAM because you repeatedly guaranteed victory by the end of 2011. You said you had told your W that this would either be fixed by then or you would end the marriage. 

When she called your bluff I imagine you were surprised, upset and had no idea at all what to do. On top of that I imagine that in a TAM context this was going to be a very embarrassing situation so you disappeared to avoid answering questions. 






Trying2figureitout said:


> That was then this is now. Last year is last year. Necessary part of the process.
> Unless you have a hidden camera on my life you don't know it all.
> Again my situation is resolved so it no longer applies.
> Most of the changes in HER happened after my last posts.
> ...


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Women who are into their men don't need all this BS to have sex.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> But...doesn't matter what I say, because you've got a plan. A plan I hope works for you...but has ANYTHING worked for you?


TG Its "THE PLAN" and I agree they are either into you or not. Bottom line nicing does not work -ever similar to begging, pleading, hysterics, etc dont work either So Good Luck with "THE PLAN"


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

My wife has not guaranteed anything... the 10 months had external factors to go along. We were actually pretty close back then but had to wait for external factors to resolve.

Again you simply have to take a leap of faith I know what I'm doing.

I will explain the plan logic as I go.
10 months for a lifetime..sure and I'd do it all over again with her.
Its fun watching you wife return to you.
We are simply better than before. 

ILYNILWY resolved.


T2


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> *Women who are into their men don't need all this BS to have sex.*
> 
> Nope.
> 
> But...doesn't matter what I say, because you've got a plan. A plan I hope works for you...but has ANYTHING worked for you?


Exactly! Even at our lowest point, when I was NOT attracted to him because of my own stupidity, we STILL had sex once a week... and never went more than ONE MONTH without. Why? Because I am, after all, sexual. I needed sex, regardless. Even my husband, when I read this thread to him, agreed that he would NOT have put up with waiting 2...3... 6... even a year without sex. It WOULD have been worked out, LONG before that.... ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!

But, what do I know? I'm having sex....


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

> But, what do I know? I'm having sex....


Right now? Ew. :rofl:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Right now? Ew. :rofl:


OMG! NO! :rofl::rofl::rofl:



Kids are awake. Rather awkward telling them to stay out of the living room.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

it's fixed in '11 or I'm gone. Ohh.. I meant '12... or progress by '13.. AND I MEAN IT! (if that's all right with you, Sweeheart)


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> OMG! NO! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are awake. Rather awkward telling them to stay out of the living room.


just say hey guys go play outside me and your father have to discuss some things


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Question asked by WorkingOnMe 1st page ..."So, your still sexless?" 

Answer by Trying2FigureItOut....



> I will be honest YES..I'm at the end of a ten month stretch. Best thing I'm good... why THE PLAN...How many current sexless guys can say they are OK without sex? I can.


It appears the title should read.... " *A nice Guys Guide to sexless Frustration to Sexless Acceptance*" at this point in the game.

I would not stay in a sexless marraige for even 6 months likely, I'd be so full of resentment & cause so many fights, he'd surely want rid of ME!









But that'd be ok, cause I'd want rid of him too - if my spouse ever had such a Low drive attitude, looked upon loving & the act of giving pleasure as "burdenous"... If the hormones ain't working as they should, it's something we can look into, get corrected.... but if the brain &







refuses to acknowledge the importance of this beautiful fullfilling intimacy, bucking at every turn...ain't worth wasting our lives away .... 

So many men have become Sacrificial lambs for their wives....these unconditional lovers (even though a resentment wall has already been built)... they stay for their children/ for vows.... my heart goes out to each one of them....the prison they find themselves in...if they can manage to stay faithful under that. I wouldn't be able to do it. 

Such spouses need consequences... the end of the marraige speaks the loudest.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> My wife has not guaranteed anything... the 10 months had external factors to go along. We were actually pretty close back then but had to wait for external factors to resolve.
> 
> Again you simply have to take a leap of faith I know what I'm doing.
> 
> ...


Always an excuse and usually it was she was too tired..... Too tired for 30 minutes? The excuses pile up and are really just plain sad. The fact T2 claims to not need counseling says a lot. I think in other posts he admitted she did, but didn't care for it.

As for ILYBNILWY, I'd like to hear how that was resolved and still not a sniff of sex...... I wonder if T2 will eventually be on CWI asking for help concerning is wife's affair.....


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Listen.... You just aren’t in a position to give advice on this. I had a nearly sexless marriage. Less than 10 times a year for a decade including spurts of her trying to get pregnant, then nothing for 10 months... not even a makeout session. And now? In a year I turned it around to no longer keeping track at all. It is there when I want whether that be five times a week or once a month. She makes passes, I sometimes reject. And even the ‘special menu’ is available once again.. 

Wanna know my secret? I don’t know for sure. What I do know is I looked in the mirror and started preparing myself for divorce and starting up a dating lifestyle. Guess I knew best what would be attractive all along... my wife likes the changes. And it did not have squat to do with being her best friend, how well I fold clothes and vacuum, or listening to anything she told me I should ‘work on’ (things I am not)... 

Just sayin.... you are still sexless and your plan is filled with ideas of how you envision she might see you. Have you tried to be the man you are instead? Before you started making changes for her, before you even knew her, that was the guy she met, fell in love with, and wanted... Only when you started changing ‘for her’ did it go away. Think on that.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Racer said:


> Listen.... You just aren’t in a position to give advice on this. I had a nearly sexless marriage. Less than 10 times a year for a decade including spurts of her trying to get pregnant, then nothing for 10 months... not even a makeout session. And now? In a year I turned it around to no longer keeping track at all. It is there when I want whether that be five times a week or once a month. She makes passes, I sometimes reject. And even the ‘special menu’ is available once again..
> 
> Wanna know my secret? I don’t know for sure. What I do know is I looked in the mirror and started preparing myself for divorce and starting up a dating lifestyle. Guess I knew best what would be attractive all along... my wife likes the changes. And it did not have squat to do with being her best friend, how well I fold clothes and vacuum, or listening to anything she told me I should ‘work on’ (things I am not)...
> 
> Just sayin.... you are still sexless and your plan is filled with ideas of how you envision she might see you. Have you tried to be the man you are instead? Before you started making changes for her, before you even knew her, that was the guy she met, fell in love with, and wanted... Only when you started changing ‘for her’ did it go away. Think on that.


Ok... there you go guys he's got the answer. So simple.

Great for you. You know what I think I'll defer until my wife and I have regular sex again... to much criticism here right now . I don't feel like putting the energy into this with the inputs I've gotten from some of you. All you want proof so I'll get proof.

Sorry guys, I'll be back after I reach 2.0 and let you guys know how it is on the other side... at least that way I will have that in my back pocket to avoid all the current hecklers.

I will let you know the steps I took after that occurs and is lasting.
This is taking to much time I have a new life to lead.

For now simply stop the bleeding and forge your own paths. Good luck.
The above poster has a strategy try it if you want... I don't care.

I'll start another thread after 2.0

Sorry for getting hopes up my plan works...you have some good info though.

Thanks,
T2

See you all soon online later on. Sometime soon.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You give your wife too much power. Just stop all this nonsense and go be a man. Stop trying to please her. Stop it. Get a hobby. Have fun and maybe she'll take notice.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> You give your wife too much power. Just stop all this nonsense and go be a man. Stop trying to please her. Stop it. Get a hobby. Have fun and maybe she'll take notice.


I'm not in need of that advice..thanks anyhow.

Yeah sexless guys have all that energy to go find a hobby and have fun... its so easy.
Roll eyes.

BTW I had a hobby and had fun..that did very little.

Gee all these theories coming out of the woodwork just choose one.

I'll just settle in to my new life with my wife and enjoy the fruits of my plan.

Some women need more than what others are posting as these "cures".


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Women who are into their men don't need all this BS to have sex.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> But...doesn't matter what I say, because you've got a plan. A plan I hope works for you...but has ANYTHING worked for you?


This has been my feelings (and fear) all along. That my wife just isn't really into me anymore.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> This has been my feelings (and fear) all along. That my wife just isn't really into me anymore.


That_Girl is generalizing... women have many reasons for going sexless... sometimes they can be completely head over heals in love and still not want sex.

The key is raising the priority in her mind...way up.

I know my wife is "into me" she just didn't find any time for sex in her lifestyle after ILYNILWY she fell into bad habits. I won her heart back last year. Really we are further along than most..pretty much was a priority issue...her lifestyle.


I corrected that this weekend... I'm her priority now.
Anyhow good luck sinister... you can do it too.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd add the following. Get in better shape. . Wear nicer clothes. You have to make yourself attractive.

Try to go on vacation. Come home a little late. Be somewhat unpredictable


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, I'm glad your plan is working for you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And I'm not generalizing. Unless there are medical reasons for a woman to not have/want sex, then most likely she isn't attracted to her mate. That's not rocket science.

She knows you'll always be there, so why should she change herself in any way? It's been 10 months and you haven't had sex.. and still don't know why? .that's a huge red flag.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Ok t2, we'll all be eating crow I'm sure. See u next year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> And I'm not generalizing. Unless there are medical reasons for a woman to not have/want sex, then most likely she isn't attracted to her mate. That's not rocket science.
> 
> She knows you'll always be there, so why should she change herself in any way? It's been 10 months and you haven't had sex.. and still don't know why? .that's a huge red flag.


I know why..external physical factors and schedule factors. Plus I wanted to finish my long term permanent fix plan with her.

Its mainly a work/life balance issue in our case she literally gets worn out at night but only likes sex at night. Really I won her heart back earlier this year. Took a while to melt that "Turn off emotions for you" stuff. I screwed up and dug myself out of the hole... to a brand new sex life on my terms. Ironic .

All along I thought..turn this into a positive.
She just needed the final nudge.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Sex just wasn't in her lifestyle as a choice...now it is. Not optional anymore... no way no how.
We're good. Very good. Life balanced. Happy.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So you're having sex?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> So you're having sex?


Not yet, not everything is sex. That's the gravy..
Whole new marriage.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Um. Yea. Everything *isn't* sex. But I can see why you'd want to believe that it's just the gravy. It should be part of marriage. Not just gravy.

I am happy you are feeling more connected to your wife. But you're still not having sex, despite your "plan".


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Um. Yea. Everything *isn't* sex. But I can see why you'd want to believe that it's just the gravy. It should be part of marriage. Not just gravy.
> 
> I am happy you are feeling more connected to your wife. But you're still not having sex, despite your "plan".


Yet.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Not yet, not everything is sex. That's the gravy..
> Whole new marriage.


Ok, you said you had the talk about this over the weekend. How long did you give her to make her decision?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Ok, you said you had the talk about this over the weekend. How long did you give her to make her decision?


No talk. A microsecond.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:scratchhead: Does she, or does she not, know about this "plan"? Does she want sex with you? Or do you just tell yourself the word "yet" so you don't get super frustrated?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> :scratchhead: Does she, or does she not, know about this "plan"? Does she want sex with you? Or do you just tell yourself the word "yet" so you don't get super frustrated?


She has NO CLUE about the plan... YES, because I'm her best option and she knows it.
I haven't been frustrated in months.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The best definition of love I've seen is:
- consistently making your spouse's core needs a high priority
- making a sincere effort to avoid doing things which you KNOW cause your spouse distress/misery
- giving and expecting trust, communication and respect

The very notion that your wife cannot set aside two hours a week to connect with you 2-3 times is patently ludicrous. 

Any conversation between you that allows her that type of blatantly untrue 'excuse', erodes her respect for you. 

Regardless of any other aspect of your marriage this pattern of allowing your wife to repeatedly say one thing, while doing the exact opposite, causes her to want to avoid sex with you. It is a clear manifestation of fear. It demonstrates that not only is she strong and you weak, but that even in situations where she is blatantly lying in a self serving, frankly abusive way, you will agree with her. 

Most long term sexless marriages are predicated on this very dynamic. 

'I only want sex at night and am always tired at night'. Of course the notion that pushing 2 workouts a week to a different time so she had an extra 1-2 hours of energy for you is not even up for discussion because she 'must', workout every day. Still it must be hard for her to schedule the weekends so tightly that she can safely avoid telling you that she dislikes having sex with you. But I am sure she will manage with your active assistance.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You're her best option? Wow. That's presumptuous. But I'll take your word for it.

Good luck...hopefully you don't go another 10 months sexless.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The best definition of love I've seen is:
> - consistently making your spouse's core needs a high priority
> - making a sincere effort to avoid doing things which you KNOW cause your spouse distress/misery
> - giving and expecting trust, communication and respect
> ...


Whatever, I don't care. Old news.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No talk. A microsecond.


A microsecond? You communicated all of this:



Trying2figureitout said:


> In the past year (actually 10 months..I cheated a bit on the year timeframe) *I communicated with my wife ONCE about our issue and it was this past weekend*... this will be the LAST time I do that THE ISSUE is now resolved. She has a choice to make. A or B or C. Marriage 2.0 or marriage 0.0 or her leaving the marriage.


in a microsecond? :scratchhead:


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> A microsecond? You communicated all of this:
> 
> 
> 
> in a microsecond? :scratchhead:


Yup the moment it hit the first synapse. Just like a light bulb.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So you didn't tell her. You just hoped she read your mind.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> So you didn't tell her. You just hoped she read your mind.


Wait for THE PLAN after results.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Um. Ok. Good luck with that. I hope THE PLAN works.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> So you didn't tell her. You just hoped she read your mind.


Yea... my husband has to spell things out for me most of the time. Even after 13 years together, we can't read each other's minds. Ohhh now THAT would be a fun super power to have! 

Oh, sorry, blonde moment there. 

Right, so, yea, takes more than a second for him to convey his thoughts on something. Well, unless he reaches into my pants. That kind of message is read LOUD AND CLEAR! 

But expecting me to read his mind? Or vice versa? Not gonna happen. LOL


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lmao frenchfry!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok OP I read this entire thread and one thing comes to mind... the movie psycho. Your going insane it seems. Stop with this pointless plan and just go up to your wife and touch her. Hell wrap your arms around her, kiss her neck, nibble at her ear, tell her you want to make her scream... and hell I'm sure she will get in the mood right quick and in a hurry. Your clearly driving yourself nuts with this plan thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> She has NO CLUE about the plan... YES, because I'm her best option and she knows it.
> I haven't been frustrated in months.


You're her best option?

OK this is seriously strange stuff. The pair of you sound like you need some counselling, stat.

Look OP I lived the sexless marriage thing, trust me "she just isn't that into you". 

For those that are in a sexless marriage there is the option of divorce. Yes I know it is a tough thing to hear but I did it, ended my marriage to a LD man and am now with Superman, sexy HD man that he is.
Get on with your lives people, forget plans that are designed to get someone to shag you that has had no desire to do that for 3 years. You deserve better.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

A lot of posters are too critical here, the idea of a plan to get back a sex life is much better than leaving.

OP only has to shift to developing his plan along the way by method of feedback. Feedback from having sex that is. So there has to be more 'testing of the plan' and adjusting. If you call it testing of your plan the psychological stress is relieved, you don't have to take it personal. 

But the 'plan' is just the same mechanism as the famous 180 on these forums, only on another subjec. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

If its the same as the 180 then why not just say he is doing the 180? As far as I have read... he just talks about a plan he hatched in his head that requires only a milisecond of communication for his wife to suddenly and miracously understand and it takes about four years? Oh let's not forget... he hasn't said what this plan is but insists it works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I do not want to be too critical about the details. If he tries to work it out, and keeps trying, adjusting, etc. etc. he will find a way. He can use the posters advices to adjust also, so every advise is welcome to be tested imo.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I do not want to be too critical about the details. If he tries to work it out, and keeps trying, adjusting, etc. etc. he will find a way. He can use the posters advices to adjust also, so every advise is welcome to be tested imo.


My advice would be that after 3 years of no intimacy it is time to move on. After all this time there must be some huge resentments building up. There is life after a sexless marriage.

OP it seems to me like some sort of weird experiment you are conducting on your wife. If you had any respect for her you would sit down and tell her you plan, bring her into the inner circle instead of trying to secretly manipulate her into wanting you.
But I am thinking you are going to say that keeping her in the dark is part of the plan.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I agree with that SLL but he isn't really using anyones advice as far as I can see. He has been rudely dismissive when questioned.. especially by others in a sexless marriage. Quite a few people would rather see the project or presentation vs the glitter and confetti tossed out for show.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I agree, acting conform No more mr Nice Guy would be preferable


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

OK... here's the deal. I love my wife and I believe in giving her my best effort. She went from "Turned off emotions" to a better version of my wife via my plan. Having a plan keeped me sane for almost three years. Also made me a better husband.

You have to understand all wives are different. Just nibbling her ear would not work on her. 

She was going through a mid-life crisis... the plan helped me manage that for her. Shes too busy for that.

I think many sexless marriages are the same as mine.
I just wanted to share a success that all.

My plan is not a 180..that's for those checking out

Good luck in your own lives


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Ok OP I read this entire thread and one thing comes to mind... the movie psycho. Your going insane it seems. Stop with this pointless plan and just go up to your wife and touch her. Hell wrap your arms around her, kiss her neck, nibble at her ear, tell her you want to make her scream... and hell I'm sure she will get in the mood right quick and in a hurry. Your clearly driving yourself nuts with this plan thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Read his other threads...... It will not work.... As said I don't know whether to feel sad for him (or his wife) or just laugh in incredulity.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> OK... here's the deal. I love my wife and I believe in giving her my best effort. She went from "Turned off emotions" to a better version of my wife via my plan. Having a plan keeped me sane for almost three years. Also made me a better husband.
> 
> You have to understand all wives are different. Just nibbling her ear would not work on her.
> 
> ...


WOW!

OK, great, when it is a "success" come back and let us all know.

Going Through Divorce or SeparationHere's a link that might come in handy should you choose to find someone that actually cares.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> OK... here's the deal. I love my wife and I believe in giving her my best effort. She went from "Turned off emotions" to a better version of my wife via my plan. Having a plan keeped me sane for almost three years. Also made me a better husband.
> 
> You have to understand all wives are different. Just nibbling her ear would not work on her.
> 
> ...


Whoa whoa whoa... Back up. She's too busy for what? Affection? Showing love to the man she pledged to love and to cherish, in sickness and in health? Too busy to make time for you? Your plan helped you manage her MLC... FOR HER?? No... your plan kept you from going insane trying to figure out why she wasn't showing you affection for all that time. And, you had a nearly sexless marriage from the beginning. So, was it a MLC that lasted 18 years? Or was it "just" the last 3 years?


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> A lot of posters are too critical here, the idea of a plan to get back a sex life is much better than leaving.
> 
> OP only has to shift to developing his plan along the way by method of feedback. Feedback from having sex that is. So there has to be more 'testing of the plan' and adjusting. If you call it testing of your plan the psychological stress is relieved, you don't have to take it personal.
> 
> But the 'plan' is just the same mechanism as the famous 180 on these forums, only on another subjec. Nothing wrong with that.



Again read all his other threads (or at least skim them) and then you'll have a better understanding about what is going on.

BTW another theory.... T2 may be bi-polar....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

This is little more than baiting at this point. Nothing is actually being said ... or discussed for that matter. If it remains that way, the thread won't last long.

T2 I have no idea why, but you consistently set yourself up for the kind of responses you have been getting.

Rather than talking around what has been going on in your marriage and how you have dealt with it, simply state what is or isn't going on, how you feel about it and how you do deal with it.

If you are still being openly rejected ... say so.

If you aren't initiating, then talk about why.

And if you are at a place of peace with all of it, that's ok too. I'm sure people would like to hear about how you got there. Because the simple reality is that there are LOTS of guys that have no intention of leaving their wife over lack of sex, and do want to find a way to be satisfied in their married life without that piece.

But the carnival barker thing? It's just going to p!ss people off.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa... Back up. She's too busy for what? Affection? Showing love to the man she pledged to love and to cherish, in sickness and in health? Too busy to make time for you? Your plan helped you manage her MLC... FOR HER?? No... your plan kept you from going insane trying to figure out why she wasn't showing you affection for all that time. And, you had a nearly sexless marriage from the beginning. So, was it a MLC that lasted 18 years? Or was it "just" the last 3 years?


Just last 3...

Hey look I was never ultra high drive and I chose to match my wife's natural drive through most of the marriage... I was a typical nice guy... my fault. When that expectation waned then the issue started creeping up.

So now I'm simply correcting that. I am not as nice anymore over this. Her and I need to meet in the middle. Not optional.

Thats all
We were fine for 17 years before ILYNILWY.... sex isn't everything until it goes missing. 

We were already at the edge for me so there wasn't any buffer that's what led to our issues. This allowed my wife and I to have another go at this. I am glad it happened. I learned a lot about me and her.

Some people just aren't overly affectionate... I still love her shes great in other ways and i really don't need her draped all over me anyhow. We have a good relationship. I do need sex though more than we ever did.,,,to avoid future issues.

Its pretty simple I think you are over analyzing it all...
This was my fault being too nice..thats all. 
Wife sex drive waned at midlife (Peri)
I was the poster boy nice guy... I learned.

I'll take a little less sex with my wife over more with anyone else. 
Pretty simple really. We get along great.
Not all about sex. Looking forward to less rejections.
My wife's freakin hot. She goes to the gym.

Believe me this new sex life will make me very happy.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Deejo said:


> This is little more than baiting at this point. Nothing is actually being said ... or discussed for that matter. If it remains that way, the thread won't last long.
> 
> T2 I have no idea why, but you consistently set yourself up for the kind of responses you have been getting.
> 
> ...


Probably just my personality... I like dramatics.
You all have fun heckling me/

Look its my life and I'm OK with it. I'll tell you what next time I'll start a thread like you say...try to help some sexless guys out and give general things that work.

I'll try to dumb it down for public consumption.
There are strategies that work in a sexless marriage...
Many ways to skin a cat.
I like the "this is what will work" approach.

Mine was pretty extreme (by design) so if I can do it so can you.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Probably just my personality... I like dramatics.
> 
> Look its my life and I'm OK with it. I'll tell you what next time I'll start a thread like you say...try to help some sexless guys out and give general things that work.
> 
> ...




But you have not gotten there yet, so how can you say your plan worked for a "Sexless Marriage"????

Please dumb it down for me, step by agonizing step... I'm pretty slow on the uptake 

PS, I think what Deejo meant by this thread not lasting long was a warning, either **** or get off the pot so to speak or this thread may be deleted...did I get that right Deejo???


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> [/U][/B]
> 
> But you have not gotten there yet, so how can you say your plan worked for a "Sexless Marriage"????
> 
> ...


I'll give you my strategies after results OK?
You all want proof so do I. After her and I do it per my schedule.
And with the flavors I specified.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> But the carnival barker thing? It's just going to p!ss people off.


agreed on this one. 


Read the whole thread and got absolutely nothing out of it.Plus it doesn't appear,OP,that you're open to any other ways of doing things...ways that might work for you.

I feel for you. It's obvious you're grasping at anything you can to hold out hope so you don't lose what's left of your sanity. 

It's almost taking on a science project kind of tone...watching what happens when a man is deprived of physical love over an extended period of time.

Apparently you CAN drive a man crazy by holding out on him.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'll give you my strategies after results OK?
> You all want proof so do I. After her and I do it per my schedule.
> And with the flavors I specified.


LOL so you're the one holding back now?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> agreed on this one.
> 
> 
> Read the whole thread and got absolutely nothing out of it.Plus it doesn't appear,OP,that you're open to any other ways of doing things...ways that might work for you.
> ...


That is true... it does start driving you a little bonkers.
Actually 10 months is about he same as 4 months to me. I can hang.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sbrown said:


> LOL so you're the one holding back now?


Yes you all want proof. So whatever.

Same old TAM so glad i don't need this forum anymore.
Way too depressing.

I try to help and look at what you all did.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Yes you all want proof. So whatever.
> 
> Same old TAM so glad i don't need this forum anymore.
> Way too depressing.
> ...


LOL do you blame your wife for your mistakes as well?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Probably just my personality... I like dramatics.
> You all have fun heckling me/


Ok, I admit to the heckling. It wasn't so much about the plan you have/had as it was about the secrecy of all the steps. Which, I think was the issue with a lot of the other posters.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Look its my life and I'm OK with it. I'll tell you what next time I'll start a thread like you say...try to help some sexless guys out and give general things that work.


And it's GREAT that you're OK with it. Really, I sincerely mean that. As Deejo said, many people in sexless marriages want to find a way to cope with the lack of sex and continue to have a good relationship with their spouses. As for giving general things that work... that's really what people have been asking for. But you have kept evading, which makes them even more skeptical. Surely you can understand that, right? 



Trying2figureitout said:


> I'll try to dumb it down for public consumption.
> There are strategies that work in a sexless marriage...
> Many ways to skin a cat.
> I like the "this is what will work" approach.


I get liking the "this is what will work" approach, but the problem we, as a whole, are seeing is that you aren't telling what works. Yes, there are many strategies which work, but unless the strategy is revealed, how can anyone try it? This is what bothers people... they see nothing but the hype. I'd say that the ones who would like to try your idea are intelligent. I'd dare say they are intelligent enough to NOT do everything all at once, even if they have it all laid out in front of them.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Mine was pretty extreme (by design) so if I can do it so can you.


Extreme or not, if it works to give someone peace, that's what matters. Some can be at peace with a sexless marriage, some cannot. I do have a few questions for you. You have said that your wife has, or will, realized that you are her best option. What if she chooses to remain in a sexless existence? Will you still be ok with that? If so, why? These are the kinds of questions, I believe, many would like answered. You said you are happy with your wife, you love her. Do you love her enough to _possibly_ have to continue in a sexless (or nearly sexless) marriage for another 20+ years?

These questions aren't meant to p!ss you off. On the contrary, it is meant to have a better understanding of where you were, where you are, and where you _may_ be in the future.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Same old TAM so glad i don't need this forum anymore.
> Way too depressing.
> 
> I try to help and look at what you all did.


So...why are you here still?

and what exactly are you trying to help by talking about this PLAN but never actually giving solid facts or solid information about it? When i was first reading,I had hopes it would be a sort of instructional bible for the sexless marriage guys to use and have it work for them.But it doesn't seem to be anything more than the frustrated rantings of a still sexless man. 

It's disappointing. I thought you were going to provide some real pearls here.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Ok, I admit to the heckling. It wasn't so much about the plan you have/had as it was about the secrecy of all the steps. Which, I think was the issue with a lot of the other posters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally got the message...

Next time I won't beat around the bush LOL.

My whole point was this stuff takes TIME.
That's why I chose to do it that way
Whatever I'll just start a Q&A thread after my wife and I recover
fully. Should be soon.

The strategy of having a plan grounds you when you are all the sudden in a sexless marriage. It lets you process in stages. I like the timeline too.

I think its valid. In my case it affected much change in our marriage dynamics.

So I will provide what I did and see if other men can benefit. Then I'll stick around for some Q&A.. then simply move on into my new life.

I just wanted to help others..I know how much it sucks.
When a woman flips off that switch it takes a while to turn it back on.

AS to consequences... she was informed there will not be a year 4.
I will not be sexless.

In time.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

AS to where I was etc.

17 years NO ISSUES
11/09 ILTNILWY.... basket case <---bad
2010 Trying to hard, Developed the plan <---sad
2011 Implemented plan, saw change <---hopeful
2012 Dealing with external physical, Ending the plan< a-OK
2013 Marriage 2.0 <-great

I took the mindset I would solve this. I did. Pretty simple.

MY approach in a nutshell....

Set a path for success and gain commitment<--- step 1
Follow that path<---ensures success
Educate the wife <--sets up sexlife LECTURE 
Correct the wife...stand up to her. <---corrects dynamics
Self-sacrifice... show her sex is not all. <--key starts the melt
Shock at a key moment <--sets sexlife, corrects dynamics
Give up...put in her lap<--- Eases tension
When she doesn't...Blast her for everything<--- she makes a light bulb decision
Marriage 2.0 <---new marriage ,new sexlife


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So today's a new day. You get laid last night? After all she agreed to marriage 2.0 last weekend in a millisecond. Or was she too busy going to the gym or going out with her friends?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And you're sure she's not cheating? ILYBNILWY is usually the precursor to an affair. Since she's so busy....is she really going to the gym? That would be my thoughts.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

See_Listen_Love said:


> A lot of posters are too critical here, the idea of a plan to get back a sex life is much better than leaving..


I agree with this statement completely. Yet, I went from a sexless marriage to one filled with sex... as have others here. We also tried variations of this thing he is trying; It doesn't work like he is approaching it. Right idea (Up your value), wrong mold. He is molding himself into a cuckold. He might be someone she'd want to marry, live with, and raise a family (presentable, reliable, stable, not a complainer; Arm candy).... But that has nothing to do with the kind of man she'd molest and goto freak town with in the sack.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Set a path for success and gain commitment<--- step 1
> Follow that path<---ensures success
> Educate the wife <--sets up sexlife LECTURE
> Correct the wife...stand up to her. <---corrects dynamics
> ...


How romantic.... Reminds me of the old DOS coding days and scripting. Yes, that will turn her on and make her wet with excitement


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's the nice guy passive agressive beta plan. Ignore issue, then when she least expects it blast her for not reading your mind, then continue to ignore the issue. Rince, repeat.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
I respect Deejo and ask that you consider this post in the spirit in which it is offered, which is to make some hopefully helpful observations for you to think about. 

Lets agree for the moment that our experiences have two major points of overlap:
1. My W and I have a fairly big difference in desire levels and have had that for most of our 23 years together. Because of that, I have found myself quite interested in this subject matter and have spent a good amount of time reading, observing and learning.
2. It doesn't take a lot of imagination for me to come up with a scenario where my W, who is "psychologically wired to overpower" gained control of the marital sex life, and in doing so, wrecked the marriage. 

Given those points of similarity, some thoughts for you below.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

Where in this process do you ask her questions? 

For instance: What is it that you (wife) are willing to commit to sexually to ensure that I feel loved and respected? 

With regard to the marriage having improved: What has your W actually done to demonstrate commitment to you during the almost 3 years where this has been your entire focus? Where has she put you first? 

Have you ever considered that you W has a plan as well? And her plan is a well thought out response to YOUR plan. For instance it sounds like she identified some "external" life factor which made sex impossible/impractical/undesirable for her right around the time that you two hit the 2 year point where you were going to give her an ultimatum. I imagine this is one of the usual suspects:
- sick parent
- sick sibling
- child struggling in school
- bad boss at work 
- etc.

Let me frame this a different way. In a sense your W knows almost exactly what you are going to do. Because it is an extension of what you have been doing for almost 3 years now. And during that time it seems she has developed her own plan. Your plan has been to achieve result A. Her plan has been to prevent you from achieving result A without fighting a "full frontal" war. A "full frontal" is when the other person says: "I know what you want. I do NOT want that and it is therefore NEVER going to happen". 

Instead she has relied on two highly effective tactics:
1. The "gamblers wiring" that many humans have. That wiring is triggered by a small amount of intermittent reinforcement. So the rare "big win", provides the impetus to continue playing a game that overall is a giant loss. 
2. She has done enough "friendly chit chat" with you, to create the perception that the marriage is improving and you have reason to hope that prosperity is "just around the corner"

The difference between the two of you is that:
- She understands your plan 100 percent
- You/we only know what she has done up until now, and have no idea what her next set of steps are to prevent marriage 2.0 from happening

But I think her ultimate fall back is going to be a combination of:
- Some new event outside of her control has happened
- If you are such a heartless man who only cares about sex that you would leave her while she is dealing with "new event", then you should just go ahead because you don't really love her anyway

In a way this has been a 3 year negotiation. In any negotiation I always ask myself one question at the very start. Is the clock my friend or my enemy? Does the person I am negotiating with gain advantage by delay, or do they lose ground? 

Each year that passes gets your W closer to the point where dissolution has less impact on her. Each year the formula for her spousal support improves, and each year the kids are closer to leaving for college reducing the number of years she would have to spend dealing with joint custody of some sort. 

So time is very, very much her friend. 

Because of that, it is very likely that her plan revolves around delay. And that however she does it, she will try to buy another year. 

I wish you luck as I clearly see you as the injured party in this marriage. Ultimately though, only one person can change the dynamic between you two, since she does not wish to. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> AS to where I was etc.
> 
> 17 years NO ISSUES
> 11/09 ILTNILWY.... basket case <---bad
> ...


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Please someone correct me if I am wrong. LD to me means that the spouse wont initiate sex, but will have sex and enjoy if if the other spouse initiates it. Flat out REFUSING to have sex is another matter all together, is it not?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

As far as I understand LD it is a "low sex drive". They LD person does not initiate and turns down or rejects sex with their partner more frequently than the partner wishes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Most common definitions for LD:
- low desire 
- lowER desire than their spouse (because it is the imbalance which creates the potential for a toxic rejection cycle)

Best and most honest definitions:
- low desire for THEIR SPOUSE - plenty of these people are having frequent sex their toys which may be electro-mechanical or biological 
- lowER desire for their spouse than their spouse has for them

While there is a correlation between most of these flavors of LD, and a lack of initiation, that is all it is, a correlation. 

If the marriage has become very sexually strained, the LD spouse almost never initiates. Or if the LD spouse feels that as a woman, initiating means giving a subtle body language cue and her H believes that initiating means grabbing your partners head and giving them a passionate kiss. 

If the desire imbalance has been managed in a way they are both good with, then an LD spouse may initiate when she is ovulating. Depending on her personality that initiation could be as little as a quick, low key flirty smile. Or .....

As for refusing, LD spouses decline sex more. But true - frequent rejection to the point where you are not rejecting an "action" but rather rejecting your partner, that is a much different and extra dynamic. Plenty of LD people make the effort to be good partners.



Sbrown said:


> Please someone correct me if I am wrong. LD to me means that the spouse wont initiate sex, but will have sex and enjoy if if the other spouse initiates it. Flat out REFUSING to have sex is another matter all together, is it not?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Dressing up in provocative clothing and going out on the town is not really evidence of LD.


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## FLGreg (Sep 26, 2012)

Really?!?! - 11 Pages and still no comprehensive "Plan"? Who can I sue to get the last 30 minutes of my life back that I lost reading this thread? I was genuinely interested – in a watching a train wreck sort of way. However, I was looking forward to reading "The Plan". You should take the advice of others and start a Blog on any number of free blogging sites where you can moderate the comments. If you do, post a link here.

I really had high hopes but it has become reminiscent of one of those Internet Pop-Ups we are all occasionally tricked into clicking on. You know the ones … like "Read How to Become Financially Independent in the Coming Crisis". You scroll down through thousands of words, fantastic claims and all sorts of facts and figures only the get to the end and read – "Click Here to BUY GOLD".

Trying2figureitout - I know that you chastised others for making assumptions about your wife so I will apologize in advance. I have to ask though (as several others have and the question went unanswered): 

Is she still "shaving her privates, wearing sexy panties (...) going to the gym everyday" as you mentioned in your original post? If she is and she's not being intimate with you then you need to buy a clue and realize she’s showing those "goods" to someone more Alpha than you are. She claims she's tired – Yeah, she's tired for a reason!

I stumbled on to this post looking for information on how spice things up and get out of a little "dry spell" (only 3 times in the past six months). However, after twenty years of marriage, I have learned that there is much more to a healthy relationship than s-e-x. We still hug and kiss all the time but she’s just not interested in intercourse (she's post-menopausal). Shared beliefs, mutual respect, honesty and a sense of humor are crucial. I can only venture a guess that there are more issues to address in the OP’s marriage than a simple diagnosis of "lackanookie" and no Master Plan, essentially playing mind games with your spouse, is going to fix that. 

Seriously, consider counseling or suggest she speak to her OB/GYN.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

This thread is the most awful case of Athol envy I have seen yet. Dude, if you don't have a plan, just admit it.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

humanbecoming said:


> This thread is the most awful case of Athol envy I have seen yet. Dude, if you don't have a plan, just admit it.


No plan is the plan..........


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

FLGreg said:


> Really?!?! - 11 Pages and still no comprehensive "Plan"? Who can I sue to get the last 30 minutes of my life back that I lost reading this thread? I was genuinely interested – in a watching a train wreak sort of way. However, I was looking forward to reading "The Plan". You should take the advice of others and start a Blog on any number of free blogging sites where you can moderate the comments. If you do, post a link here.
> 
> I really had high hopes but it has become reminiscent of one of those Internet Pop-Ups we are all occasionally tricked into clicking on. You know the ones … like "Read How to Become Financially Independent in the Coming Crisis". You scroll down through thousands of words, fantastic claims and all sorts of facts and figures only the get to the end and read – "Click Here to BUY GOLD".
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I have been wrapped up in T2's rants since October 2011 and yes she has maintained herself everywhere....

Of course pointing that out to T2, warning him and showing empathy is met with "you have no idea about her or what you're talking about" 

There are times I feel very sorry for T2.....


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> This thread is the most awful case of Athol envy I have seen yet. Dude, if you don't have a plan, just admit it.


Oh he has a plan, you just wait and see. Any decade now his wife is going to allow him to have sex with her. If only he jumps through all the right hoops at the right time....You just wait.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

I will actually stand up for T2. He does love his wife and wants a meaningful complete life with her. Is that so bad?

Actually this is better than some other posters, who have stated that they had come to accept a happily sexless marriage and deny their urges all in order to look after their wives and families and never bring up the topic again. I remember one who actually contemplated becoming a eunuch, rather then confront his spouse and change things.

Also another who beat himself up mercilessly for an affair after 3+ years of no sex or affection at all in order to support his wife & daughters ultra-extravagant lifestyle (she only earned 6 figure, while he earned *mid six-figures*.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

justbidingtime said:


> I will actually stand up for T2. He does love his wife and wants a meaningful complete life with her. Is that so bad?
> 
> Actually this is no worse than other posters, who have stated that they had come to accept a happily sexless marriage and deny their urges all in order to look after their wives and families and never bring up the topic again. I remember one who actually contemplated becoming a eunuch, rather then confront his souse and change things.
> 
> Also another who beat himself up mercilessly for an affair after 3+ years of no sex or affection at all in order to support his wife & daughters ultra-extravagant lifestyle (she only earned 6 figure, while he earned *mid six-figures*.


Most are not upset that he decided to live a sexless life. Most are upset that he said he found the answer to a sexless marriage and then proceeded to tell us that he hadn't actually had sex yet. But any day now...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Justbiding,
There is a huge flaw in your post below. I have never seen anyone happily accept a sexless marriage forced on them by an indifferent spouse. They may "accept" it. And they may try to be happy with the other parts of their life, but they are never happy about being rejected by the person they love. 

As for T2, he came on here posting that he had a solution to what is typically a very complex and difficult set of overlapping problems. He was very confident. So he got asked a lot of questions. 



justbidingtime said:


> I will actually stand up for T2. He does love his wife and wants a meaningful complete life with her. Is that so bad?
> 
> Actually this is no worse than other posters, who have stated that they had come to accept a happily sexless marriage and deny their urges all in order to look after their wives and families and never bring up the topic again. I remember one who actually contemplated becoming a eunuch, rather then confront his souse and change things.
> 
> Also another who beat himself up mercilessly for an affair after 3+ years of no sex or affection at all in order to support his wife & daughters ultra-extravagant lifestyle (she only earned 6 figure, while he earned *mid six-figures*.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> This thread is the most awful case of Athol envy I have seen yet. Dude, if you don't have a plan, just admit it.


hb "The Plan" is the "THE PLAN"


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Justbiding,
> There is a huge flaw in your post below. *I have never seen anyone happily accept a sexless marriage forced on them by an indifferent spouse*. They may "accept" it. And they may try to be happy with the other parts of their life, but they are never happy about being rejected by the person they love.
> 
> As for T2, he came on here posting that he had a solution to what is typically a very complex and difficult set of overlapping problems. He was very confident. So he got asked a lot of questions.


I won't search but people have posted on TAM exactly that......

I find T2's rants very entertaining and admittedly there are some nuggets amongst the dung.


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## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

I consider myself a candidate for sexless acceptance. I have resolved to not leave my wife even if we are never intimate again.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> hb "The Plan" is the "THE PLAN"


Dammit! I knew when I planned that post on the plan about the plan, that I should have planned to come back and see if there was a new plan. I'll plan better in my next plan!


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## FLGreg (Sep 26, 2012)

MYM1430 said:


> I consider myself a candidate for sexless acceptance. I have resolved to not leave my wife even if we are never intimate again.


Amen, brother! You are preaching to the choir. I guess I am one of those old-fashioned guys that believes in the permanence of marriage. A vow is a vow, for better or for worse. There is a lot more that goes into a successful marriage than "bumpin' uglies". Don’t get me wrong, sex is great but there other ways to accomplish the unitive dimensions of married love.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> I respect Deejo and ask that you consider this post in the spirit in which it is offered, which is to make some hopefully helpful observations for you to think about.
> 
> Lets agree for the moment that our experiences have two major points of overlap:
> ...


Let me respond...

My wife likely had sexual trauma in childhood, she also has/had (fixing it) a texting obsession with a guy/friend and has been reliving her teen years via texting..these are typical trauma victim behaviors also explains our lower baseline sex rate prior to sexlessness.


Its an uphill battle. Most of the stuff on her end is not about me.
Me being a "nice guy" added fuel to the fire.

I certainly don't just care about sex if I did I'd be gone. What I actually care deepest about is my wife being happy in our marriage and me enjoying the ride too.

A sense of fairness.

My wife's been "sick" as long as its temporary I'm good. I don't take marital vows lightly.
Understand? I'm willing to give her three years not four.

It was mostly a dynamics correction I instituted with some sexual boundaries in place.
Protecting myself from a lifetime of frustration.
Hopefully improving hers as well.

I don't waste the ILNILWY as she started it and I simply ended it <---opportunity

Marriage is a negotiation. Its when the terms change issues creep up.
I simply re-negotiated at the proper time and evened out the terms.

Its simple really in concept.
Yes i still love my wife..that never faltered.
Its a process. You get this one life to get it right.

Plus the process is tough enough...she will be unlikely to want to repeat it..another safeguard.

A portable plan.... soon guys.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Let me respond...
> 
> My wife* likely had sexual trauma in childhood*, she also has/had (fixing it) a texting obsession with a guy/friend and has been reliving her teen years via texting..these are typical trauma behaviors.
> 
> ...


"likely had sexual trauma in childhood".... you don't know for certain? It hasn't officially come out in therapy/discussions?

As for the texting obsession with a male friend... have you SEEN the content of these texts, ANY of them? And, how much has she been texting this guy? Yes, I have heard that trauma victims often regress when the trauma comes to light. But I haven't heard of someone becoming obsessed with texting an opposite sex friend because of such trauma.... maybe I'm wrong, but this does NOT sound like a simple response to sexual trauma...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> "likely had sexual trauma in childhood".... you don't know for certain? It hasn't officially come out in therapy/discussions?
> 
> As for the texting obsession with a male friend... have you SEEN the content of these texts, ANY of them? And, how much has she been texting this guy? Yes, I have heard that trauma victims often regress when the trauma comes to light. But I haven't heard of someone becoming obsessed with texting an opposite sex friend because of such trauma.... maybe I'm wrong, but this does NOT sound like a simple response to sexual trauma...


Trauma victims try to regain what was lost she had trauma during HS years so this is typical.

The texting protects her from him. Dont get me wrong this looks to me like an EA but I really thing she sees it as a straight friendship.

Trauma victims don't have a great sense of marriage roles and boundaries.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's still an EA.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> It's still an EA.


Oh I know by definition its an EA but I believe its not to her again
lack of boundaries via trauma.

Hey I've texted the guy he knows I know.
We're pretty much snuffing this out though its a distraction to me.
To move on.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, maybe she loves him and that's why she won't have sex with you. And maybe her 'gym' and 'friends' nights are nights with him.

wake up.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Oh I know by definition its an EA but I believe its not to her again
> lack of boundaries via trauma.
> 
> Hey I've texted the guy he knows I know.
> ...


T2, it IS an EA, even if it isn't TO HER. I didn't see MINE as an EA... but it was. You can't nice her out of an EA. It won't work. My husband couldn't do it. I couldn't do it with his. We had to take ACTION and cut it OFF. I can guarantee that as long as this guy is in the picture, your marriage will not get back on track. THIS I have lived PERSONALLY.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> T2, it IS an EA, even if it isn't TO HER. I didn't see MINE as an EA... but it was. You can't nice her out of an EA. It won't work. My husband couldn't do it. I couldn't do it with his. We had to take ACTION and cut it OFF. I can guarantee that as long as this guy is in the picture, your marriage will not get back on track. THIS I have lived PERSONALLY.


I hear you...I don't like it. She knows I'm done with this.
I called her out on this.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But she didn't stop. Did she?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Well, maybe she loves him and that's why she won't have sex with you. And maybe her 'gym' and 'friends' nights are nights with him.
> 
> wake up.


Um no. Shes not having any physical affair.
This is a strict EA.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

T2...... Hit this button......Please.....

Professional Online Counseling Experts

Professional Online Counseling Experts

Professional Online Counseling Experts

The best thing you can do!!!!!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> But she didn't stop. Did she?


Just informed her last night...its subsided a lot.

I don't need counselor already have a personal one.

If it continues we'll end it.... I already had her cut it off once. Then 
let her back in it. She sort of abused that so this time not 
letting get out of hand again.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She'll take it underground. Sorry.

How do you know it's not a physical affair? You don't.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> She'll take it underground. Sorry.
> 
> How do you know it's not a physical affair? You don't.


Whatever she has a timeline. There will not be a year 4 so its
up to her now. I don't care.

I'm already ok with or without her. Part of the plan.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Awesome!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

FLGreg said:


> Amen, brother! You are preaching to the choir. I guess I am one of those old-fashioned guys that believes in the permanence of marriage. A vow is a vow, for better or for worse.


I'm just curious, but do you think there are any actions, beyond adultery, that can break that vow? If you beat your wife, is she obligated to remain married to you? What if your wife beats you?

What about separating, but remaining married? Nothing in the vows says you have to live under the same roof and be miserable.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I'm just curious, but do you think there are any actions, beyond adultery, that can break that vow? If you beat your wife, is she obligated to remain married to you? What if your wife beats you?
> 
> What about separating, but remaining married? Nothing in the vows says you have to live under the same roof and be miserable.


There is plenty besides adultery...sexless comes to mind.
That doesn't actually fulfill the "give yourself to only to him" clause.


But two wrongs don't make a right.
My wife knows I'm done. Her choice.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just informed her last night...its subsided a lot.
> 
> I don't need counselor already have a personal one.
> 
> ...


THis was the mistake you made. You dropped the ball and allowed her to have contact with her OM.It's great that you told her that's it, no more. But "subsided" is not CUT OFF. This was the reason for her ILYBNILWY speech. This is why she held you away. And she gave you just enough to get you to relent and allow her to speak to this guy again. I hope, for your sanity, that you do not allow her to speak to him again, if she chooses you. If he comes back into her life, there is no way you will rebuild. He will be on her mind all the time...which will most definitely take from YOU. I wish you luck. But please, get this guy OUT, COMPLETELY...and DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ALLOW HIM BACK!


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> There is plenty besides adultery...sexless comes to mind.
> That doesn't actually fulfill the "give yourself to only to him" clause.
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry but you said this last December too and there has been no change whatsoever...... And by change I mean only one thing..... Sex


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Wow T2.. Your story is getting worse and worse. She is still in an EA? She is still sexless with you? She has a sexual traumatic experience in her past?

That is how my story starts... ILYBNILWY and discovery of an EA (or two in my case). You are turning into a cuckold trying to save this. I’ve been there, I know. Even went through a false R. It seems right to you correct? “Love conquers all” “I love her and will fight”... You’ve rationalized her behavior, made excuses for her, and now have “the plan”. You are logical, smart, and know a thing or two about how people work.. Right? “The Plan” forms *based on how you believe the world should work*.

Honestly; Good for you that you aren’t just crawling into a hole. You are trying to do something. That is a start.

I will clue you in to a “secret”: *She doesn’t think like you do,* particularly when it comes to sex. Therefore, you can not predict results or behavior. Damaged people think in damaged terms; They developed coping tools to deal with trauma and have been relying on them for years. Basically, the only thing you can control or predict is your own behavior until she can resolve her issues and understands herself and how she deals with things (and then shares that with you so you know how to deal with her as well). 

Focus on yourself (like you are trying to do) and use the mirror instead of the reflection in her eyes (where you are making your mistake with your plan). Her reflection will be a moving target until she can work out her own issues.

Is she in IC? Are you? Look up secondary survivors and what sort of things we go through: Sexless marriages are not uncommon, adultery is as are perspectives about what sex means to them can be quite common. 

This is survivable, and you can make it work, but only if she can work on her end of this and focus on the real issues instead of her justifications... it takes a lot of digging to get there. Is she even working on herself hard?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You let her have an EA?

um....Ok.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
Out of fairness to yourself. What have you done to absolutely ensure that she isn't slipping out sometime during the day, lunch/etc. to meet someone? 

I believe you can monitor someone intensely for 1-2 weeks. But more than that is extremely difficult and/or expensive. 

Her extreme fitness level combined with the provocative/sexy clothing and the shaving down there are not the actions of someone in an EA. They are much more in line with someone in a PA. 




Trying2figureitout said:


> Whatever she has a timeline. There will not be a year 4 so its
> up to her now. I don't care.
> 
> I'm already ok with or without her. Part of the plan.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I got this everyone.

no YEAR 4

I informed her and the guy about the issue at hand.
At least he communicates with me.
I'm done. We either right this ship or don't.

Marriage 2.0

Is she working on it? I think so.
Plan is over last step tonight... now just waiting for results.
I did my due diligence on this matter


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You should move your thread to the CWI forum.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I got this everyone.
> 
> no YEAR 4
> 
> ...


T2, I'm going to be honest. This post, as well as a couple others where you allude, or even outright state, that she is having an emotional affair has nearly made me cry. Why? Because, based on what you have said here, it _appears_ you have just allowed her to continue her affair. You say you informed the guy and your wife about the issue at hand. What exactly did you say? Did you tell them that in order for your marriage to continue, he needs to GTFO? Did you say you are not going to sit back and ALLOW her to cheat any longer? Or did you just say you are not comfortable with them talking so much and you would appreciate it if they would cut back? See the difference there? Standing your ground, telling them you will NOT allow this to continue in ANY capacity, is taking action. Stating that you are merely uncomfortable with it only makes them hide it more.

You say you believe she is "working on it". The ONLY way she would TRULY be "working on it" is if she drops the OM right now, not when she FEELS like it. It really is THAT simple. This isn't about getting sex with your wife or not getting it. This is about getting her out of an affair, and HOPING it hasn't gone physical. And, yes, it is, indeed, possible that it has...even with her "timeline". People use legitimate excuses to get out of the house (going to the gym, going out with friends, going shopping) to meet up with an affair partner. Enabling friends make that even easier. 

Bottom line is that you THINK she is "working on it". The only way for you to KNOW is if you total transparency and are able to VERIFY. If neither of you is willing to do this, then things WILL continue as they are, or worse.


----------



## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

FLGreg said:


> Amen, brother! You are preaching to the choir. I guess I am one of those old-fashioned guys that believes in the permanence of marriage. A vow is a vow, for better or for worse. There is a lot more that goes into a successful marriage than "bumpin' uglies". Don’t get me wrong, sex is great but there other ways to accomplish the unitive dimensions of married love.


It is truly a shame that you love your wife sooo much, but she can't or wont return that love. Your wife is using you!


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> It is truly a shame that you love your wife sooo much, but she can't or wont return that love. Your wife is using you!


But for some admittedly, sex is NOT important..... The question then is whether it truly is not or they have just convinced themselves so.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> T2, I'm going to be honest. This post, as well as a couple others where you allude, or even outright state, that she is having an emotional affair has nearly made me cry. Why? Because, based on what you have said here, it _appears_ you have just allowed her to continue her affair. You say you informed the guy and your wife about the issue at hand. What exactly did you say? Did you tell them that in order for your marriage to continue, he needs to GTFO? Did you say you are not going to sit back and ALLOW her to cheat any longer? Or did you just say you are not comfortable with them talking so much and you would appreciate it if they would cut back? See the difference there? Standing your ground, telling them you will NOT allow this to continue in ANY capacity, is taking action. Stating that you are merely uncomfortable with it only makes them hide it more.
> 
> You say you believe she is "working on it". The ONLY way she would TRULY be "working on it" is if she drops the OM right now, not when she FEELS like it. It really is THAT simple. This isn't about getting sex with your wife or not getting it. This is about getting her out of an affair, and HOPING it hasn't gone physical. And, yes, it is, indeed, possible that it has...even with her "timeline". People use legitimate excuses to get out of the house (going to the gym, going out with friends, going shopping) to meet up with an affair partner. Enabling friends make that even easier.
> 
> Bottom line is that you THINK she is "working on it". The only way for you to KNOW is if you total transparency and are able to VERIFY. If neither of you is willing to do this, then things WILL continue as they are, or worse.


This ^^^^^^^^^^ x 1000.... T2, read "Not Just Friends"
Actions speak louder than words..ACTIONS!!!


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

justbidingtime said:


> But for some admittedly, sex is NOT important..... The question then is whether it truly is not or they have just convinced themselves so.


If this was the case, then being in a sexless marriage would have NEVER been a problem and they would have thought it was normal from the start. Correct?


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> If this was the case, then being in a sexless marriage would have NEVER been a problem and they would have thought it was normal from the start. Correct?


Yes some people enter a marriage sexless (i.e. 1X/mth or less)..... Some couples are just non-sexual..... And if that truly is the case, who am I to question.... Of course I feel sad for them.....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's a new day! Get anything last night?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I did, I did!!!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Plan is over last step tonight... now just waiting for results.
> I did my due diligence on this matter


There is an old saying I learned here: I've earned my divorce.

Nothing wrong with it. You are trying very hard to save this marriage. It is ok, at some point, to look in the mirror and tell yourself you did all you could do and it still didn’t work. You can earn your own right to divorce and forgive yourself. Doesn’t sound like you are at that point quite yet. I know I wasn’t for quite some time. But even now, and I am still married to her, I do feel comfort and peace that I’d be ok divorcing her at any time. 

Anyhow, you might plug that into the back of your brain and while working on yourself, understand and accept these thoughts. I found finding that comfort level with just the idea of divorce helped me immensely with my efforts to make it work... I just lost the fear of “what if it doesn’t work out?” that had been stopping me from ‘rocking the boat’ out of a fear that it might chase her away. I was ‘ok’ if she ran. Only then could I truly reveal how torn up I was; I'm not 'the rock' I typically pretended to be for her hoping she'd love me for it... I am a broken man nursing his deep wounds. I showed her that man and the hurt she had caused.... that helped her truly understand the ramifications of her actions and accepting who she had become was not who she could admire.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Still on track... not EA
Last part of PLAN backfired a bit...will revise for general release.

But she says we are good. So just a matter of time 
Seems shes past issue.

Soon.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Still on track... not EA
> Last part of PLAN backfired a bit...will revise for general release.
> 
> But she says we are good. So just a matter of time


Good at what...... Not having sex???? Sorry, couldn't help myself..... T2, you're killing us........


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

justbidingtime said:


> Good at what...... Not having sex???? Sorry, couldn't help myself..... T2, you're killing us........


Yup no seriously that *we are good* comment is enormous.
Just a matter of time now.

She wasn't down with my last minute psycho spell. 10 months dry does that to a man...beware.
Danger danger
Not really part of the plan most of it try to stay sane at the end of it.
Not sure how to control the psycho behavior at the end of the last part I do think 10 months must be a ceiling of some sort...crazy stuff.

But hey it works. No more sexless marriage around the corner.

Hopefully most who try it do the last part in less than 10 months. Seriously almost like a peyote trip.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I told my husband we were good too... as I was still texting OM.

Pretty sure those who are in a sexless marriage due to an EA (which you don't want to admit is the case) would nip this a lot sooner, and not allow renewed contact. Well, that's what *I* did anyway... and my husband too. Took way less than 10 months to get sex back on track after EAs were exposed... less than a month even.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I told my husband we were good too... as I was still texting OM.
> 
> Pretty sure those who are in a sexless marriage due to an EA (which you don't want to admit is the case) would nip this a lot sooner, and not allow renewed contact. Well, that's what *I* did anyway... and my husband too. Took way less than 10 months to get sex back on track after EAs were exposed... less than a month even.


Its not an EA...looks like one but isn't.... I've freaked the guy out twice LOL

Wife and I are back. Now we'll see what happens.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do think you are in denial.

I hope for your sake, you are right. But I highly doubt it.

Saying "you're good" is not having sex. She doesn't have 20 minutes to prove how "good" you are? I am sorry that she toys with you like this. You do not deserve it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I do think you are in denial.
> 
> I hope for your sake, you are right. But I highly doubt it.
> 
> Saying "you're good" is not having sex. She doesn't have 20 minutes to prove how "good" you are? I am sorry that she toys with you like this. You do not deserve it.


Not there. See this weekend if she is game. No denial. Long hard road.
Plan works. 2yr 10mo from ILYNILWY think that's pretty good.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. It's not, but good luck.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Not there. See this weekend if she is game. No denial. Long hard road.
> Plan works. 2yr 10mo from ILYNILWY think that's pretty good.


Right. But is she still conversing with the OM since you gave her that microsecond talk? Plan isn't over til you hit the actual GOAL, not when you are still waiting for her to decide.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Right. But is she still conversing with the OM since you gave her that microsecond talk? Plan isn't over til you hit the actual GOAL, not when you are still waiting for her to decide.


Om gave her go ahead not an EA shes free to text to him. Think he told her to just do it to get me off his back.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Om gave her go ahead not an EA shes free to text to him. Think he told her to just do it to get me off his back.


That doesn't even make sense. The OM says its fine for her to text him? And that her texting him would keep you from giving him a hard time? 

But the OM bring the one to decide who talks to whom and when means you and your wife "are good" and you'll be getting a piece in just one more weekend?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

COGypsy said:


> That doesn't even make sense. The OM says its fine for her to text him? And that her texting him would keep you from giving him a hard time?
> 
> But the OM bring the one to decide who talks to whom and when means you and your wife "are good" and you'll be getting a piece in just one more weekend?


Its complicated. They are just friends really. I know I know ..really. So he probably said wtf you doing to her.

FIO


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sex doesn't need to be planned like this. lol. But...ok.

Open your eyes!  Please!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Sex doesn't need to be planned like this. lol. But...ok.
> 
> Open your eyes!  Please!


Think I broke her with the multi-day psycho spell. Seriously. Maybe I'LL LEAVE THAT IN THE PLAN.
There's a gleem.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:rofl:

What??


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> :rofl:
> 
> What??



She denied me (was tired) I went bonkers. 10 months is a long time. Literally off the deep end. Synapse snapped.
Its not pretty at the end of the plan.
But hey it works. We're good.

FIO

You all see how the saga ends. Psycho ending.
Opened up lines of communication. She probably didn't want to experience that again.
Don't blame her either it was an out of body experience.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Dude.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Dude.


You try going 10 months. Its difficult. I'm better now. But hey it worked.
Wasn't expecting the psych stuff...weird. Think it did it though.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

So, hang on, the plan is basically do nothing for ten months and then have a big tantrum? 

Not a great plan, really.

You keep saying things have improved, *how* have they improved? Specifically, I mean. Does your wife spend more time with you? Is she nicer, more loving? Does she do nice things for you and enjoy paying attention to you? 

You seem to be viewing sex as this huge mountain peak, as though once you achieve it with your wife, that's it, plan successful. It is achingly clear from the outside that your wife doesnt want to have sex with you. If she wanted to, she would, it's as simple as that. 

Even if your wife does have sex with you this weekend, what happens then? Do you really think once she does it once, she'll jump right into two/three times a week? After years of nothing?

And why is she making you wait until the weekend? If she was really worried by your psycho episode she would already have had sex with you. 

She's having an affair. I hope you can get out of this horrible situation soon.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Lyris said:


> So, hang on, the plan is basically do nothing for ten months and then have a big tantrum?
> 
> Not a great plan, really.
> 
> ...


No affair... we'll roll into a sexual marriage now. She's into me again. Part of the plan.
Yes shes nicer, offers to get me stuff, more talkative, laughs more, checks in with me more. 
She's as good as ever. Happy with her. The tantrum is optional kinda of weird.

YES.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Dude. The other man gave your wife permission to have sex with you? Seriously?


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

You see people talk about it in CWI... Wife throws the guy an orgasm, he's so awed that he wets the rug like a puppy. she keeps having freaky sex with Mr alpha OM while beta boi keeps bringing home the paychecks. All part of the plan. HER plan.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

T2, 

I think you may need to visit a psychiater, I think you are on the border of a crisis. Get some prescription to calm down and an analysis. You 'talk' 'mental'. Maybe because of the continuing stress you got dillusional.

Please.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Dude. The other man gave your wife permission to have sex with you? Seriously?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

OMG! I'm in shock over here. Seriously. THERE IS NO FVCKING WAY IN HELL SHE ISN'T HAVING AT LEAST AN EA WITH THIS GUY! The dude GAVE HER PERMISSION TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU, *HER HUSBAND!!!* T2, you didn't win. she merely placated you to get you off her back. You are letting ehr continue talking with her...wait for it.... *AFFAIR PARTNER!!!!* OMG, WTFE, you can keep deluding yourself if you wish. I'll keep watching, and TRY to hold back my "*I TOLD YOU SO*s"... If it weren't such a serious situation, I'd be LMAO here...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> You try going 10 months. Its difficult. I'm better now. But hey it worked.
> Wasn't expecting the psych stuff...weird. Think it did it though.


Here's the thing, I guarantee that, unless it was due to medical problems (i.e. medication, or physically incapable of having sex), I wouldn't go 10 months without it. Yea, it would definitely drive someone insane when the AP is the one giving the spouse permission to have sex with her husband. I kinda did the same thing... but then, I wasn't having sex with my AP, it was "just" an EA. Still, I held my husband at bay for only a month. 

Pretty certain TG wouldn't hold off for 10 months either.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Yes sadder and sadder to think someone else is giving T2's wife permission for a mercy f&%k...... It is obvious that regardless of what she says or if she throws one your way, the ILYBNILWY comments still stand.

If I remember correctly T2, you have stated your wife does like sex, that she orgasms easily and multiple times (maybe I just threw that one in) and yet she hasn't wanted anything for 10 months (though frankly it must be much longer, because you have been posting about this for over a year already)....

Again please hit the talk to a professional button.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Just messing with you all... payback LOL

You are so freakin' gullible

Here's the deal....

Long Process
Won her heart back
She generally has lots of texting/facebook friends and is very social.
The guy is a friend that's all. Its innocent.
I noticed big changes earlier in the year.
Now she's finally processed everything and is ready to
start a new life together.

I can't cage a social butterfly...I knew that all along.

The whole concept was:

A beginning and an ending, reinforce the time frame of the "situation" re-evaluate the dynamics and correct them, change what needs to be changed. Then at some point at the end of the plan the issue is so compartmentalized that both spouses will want to get past the issue and never go back to the issue again. Essentially the husband takes control defining an endpoint to resolve the issue. Taking the task away from the wife.

Visualize... a zit. Bring it to a head and pop it.

I did pissoff my wife with e-mails/texts at the end but she completely understood. She just had too much on her plate to deal with my stuff... finally realized the issue needs resolved error of her ways.
The final step. Lightbulb moment.

OLD....ISSUE......NEW

Plan works...going to have lots more sex than we ever did.

Husbands you are operating from a high point all along.... that is who usually wins the battle isn't it... think about that.

A little over the edge at end.. but I think that's what did it too. My wife probably wants a sane husband. 10 months is freakin long.

Whats great by the end you have no problem standing up to your wife on anything and change her view on sex totally. Correct dynamics. Sexlessness is simply the temporary training ground. Use it to your advantage... key point your aren't getting sex so really no real penalties exist. That way you can re-engineer your wife's mind as you go. Is a brilliant plan. You are in control while she re-evaluates the new marriage. She falls in love with the better you...the stronger you. The you that won't put up with her crap. Hit her with shock and awe at key points.

Husbands your wife fell in love once they can again. You have inside track.
,,and ample opportunity to work on her mind. 2 years 10 months total w/ huge mistakes at the beginning. This plan is basically how to survive ILYNILWY for dummies.

BE back with plan after results roll in 
The plan keeps you mostly sane and happy towards the end even without sex for a while.

FIO


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

No man should have to work this hard to have sex with his wife... really. This all makes me feel kind of sad. I'd feel awful if I needed a 3+ year plan to convince my own husband to sleep with me. I'd probably have had an affair....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

:/ yet your reply shows that nothing changed.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
Are you saying you already had sex with your wife or that you plan to this weekend?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

aribabe said:


> No man should have to work this hard to have sex with his wife... really. This all makes me feel kind of sad. I'd feel awful if I needed a 3+ year plan to convince my own husband to sleep with me. I'd probably have had an affair....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For once, aribabe, we are in agreement.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You've got issues. Starting to wonder if the OM also wears a clown suit.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

aribabe said:


> No man should have to work this hard to have sex with his wife... really. This all makes me feel kind of sad. I'd feel awful if I needed a 3+ year plan to convince my own husband to sleep with me. I'd probably have had an affair....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i agree.this is really sad.instead of poking at him,we should be giving him hugs


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You've got issues. Starting to wonder if the OM also wears a clown suit.


Yea... issues. And lack of sex is the least of his worries.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> i agree.this is really sad.instead of poking at him,we should be giving him hugs


I would, but I am afraid he'd hump my leg. 10 months I would be walking around humping air.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Whatever I don't care.

I fixed my marriage for life. 
Thats the goal. A sexual marriage YOU CAN COUNT ON.

Reason it took long is I wouldn't settle for a sucky sexlife.
HAD TO BE A NEW ONE.
All great inventors are a little nuts

Take my plan or don't I don't care.

She started it sucky sex life/ILYNILWY
I ended it LOTS OF GREAT SEX

Use her actions to your advantage. Dare to be bold.
Have to re-educate your wife.
So far plan is batting 1.000
FIO

Have details after results are evident.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Whatever I don't care.
> 
> I fixed my marriage for life.
> Thats the goal. A sexual marriage YOU CAN COUNT ON.
> ...



So, you DID have sex? You haven't stated that YES you did... you allude to it... but never actually come out and say it HAS happened. So, yes or no, did you and your wife have sex, thereby ending your 10 month streak?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Congratulations T2 we are happy for you. I hope this is the beginning of a happy time in your marriage.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, any sex last night?


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## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I'm just curious, but do you think there are any actions, beyond adultery, that can break that vow? If you beat your wife, is she obligated to remain married to you? What if your wife beats you?
> 
> What about separating, but remaining married? Nothing in the vows says you have to live under the same roof and be miserable.


I would separate if I thought she were a danger to our children or abusive to them. Other than that there is nothing that she could do that would convince me to leave her. If she left me, I would let her go but would remain faithful to her.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, any sex last night?


Yep! Oh sorry, I thought you were asking everyone....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Lol


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I didn't realize this was a T2 thread before, or I would have grabbed my bowl of popcorn to settle in for an amusing read. The analogy that caught my eye was that of a homeless bum offering sessions on becoming a millionaire.

Why would I take advice from a gardener whose lawn is dead and brown? Why would I get a handyman whose house is falling apart to come and fix my stairs? It's one thing to offer your two bits on any subject. Heck, most of us in here don't claim to have all the answers, but we can still offer opinions. But to claim you've got the ONE PLAN that will solve anyone's problems when you're in a sexless marriage is ludicris.

My solution... I left my marriage and found someone who actual cares about meeting my needs (and I, hers). While I respect someone's rights to stay in a marriage through thick and thin, to me, marriage is a two way street. To do otherwise would be like continuing to go to work, even though you're no longer getting paid. And that's an analogy; I'm not saying my marriage/relationships are a "job".

And like some of the others, I do suspect your wife is much more than "friends" with her EA partner. But considering how deep your head is in the sand over the whole "I've solved my sex life issues", I suspect you'll never look any deeper. Odds are reasonable that your wife IS sexual, and IS having a good sex life. Just not with you. Until you resolve that, the rest is moot.

C


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

aribabe said:


> No man should have to work this hard to have sex with his wife... really. This all makes me feel kind of sad. I'd feel awful if I needed a 3+ year plan to convince my own husband to sleep with me. I'd probably have had an affair....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No man does. It's just evidence that he's doing it wrong. He could come up with a 3 year plan for learning to tie his shoes. That doesn't mean it's a good plan.

A good plan is, basically, a version of Athol Kay's MAP. Improve yourself. Work out. Eat right. Earn a decent paycheck. Be sure you balance alpha and beta behaviors. Once you have other options, inform your wife that you expect a sexual marriage and won't tolerate imposed celibacy. Simple. And it's usually a process of months rather than years. And most men working the problem get some minimal amount of sex while they're improving.

What the OP has been doing, for 3 years, is mental gymnastics designed around excusing his wife for refusing to have sex with him. He twists his view of reality around so that he's actually the one in control. It's like anorexics. They feel out of control, so they starve themselves to feel better. He hasn't had much sex over the last 3 years, and none over the last 10 months. But, that's OK because it's all according to his plan.

Whether this attitude is exhibited by an anorexic teenager, a battered wife, or a husband in a sexless marriage, the results are always tragic.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, any sex last night?


He said she rejected him. He's hoping to have sex this weekend.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just messing with you all... payback LOL
> 
> You are so freakin' gullible
> 
> ...


So in a nut shell, you dont know if the plan works, because you havent had sex YET! so how can you say it works?:scratchhead:

re-engineer your wifes mind..good luck with that, if I thought I could re-engineer my wifes mind, I wouldnt want to be with her, nor should she want to be with me.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> No man does. It's just evidence that he's doing it wrong. He could come up with a 3 year plan for learning to tie his shoes. That doesn't mean it's a good plan.
> 
> A good plan is, basically, a version of Athol Kay's MAP. Improve yourself. Work out. Eat right. Earn a decent paycheck. Be sure you balance alpha and beta behaviors. Once you have other options, inform your wife that you expect a sexual marriage and won't tolerate imposed celibacy. Simple. And it's usually a process of months rather than years. And most men working the problem get some minimal amount of sex while they're improving.
> 
> ...


He hasn't had much sex his ENTIRE relationship with her. I've had more sex with my wife in the 4 years we have been together than he has in the last 20+ years of his marriage.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Let me fix that 




WorkingOnMe said:


> So, did YOU have any sex with the wife last night?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

MYM1430 said:


> I would separate if I thought she were a danger to our children or abusive to them. Other than that there is nothing that she could do that would convince me to leave her. If she left me, I would let her go but would remain faithful to her.


I think your insistence that you will never leave her, despite her treatment of you, is more a result of your low self-esteem than any moral code.

It's often been said on these boards that, in order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Sbrown said:


> He hasn't had much sex his ENTIRE relationship with her. I've had more sex with my wife in the 4 years we have been together than he has in the last 20+ years of his marriage.


That's true. But, everything's relative. He was relatively content getting a paltry amount of sex from his wife in the early years of his marriage. Three years ago is when his wife decided that 15-20 times a year was too much sex. So that's when he became motivated to find a solution.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I think your insistence that you will never leave her, despite her treatment of you, is more a result of your low self-esteem than any moral code.
> 
> It's often been said on these boards that, in order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it.
> 
> Good luck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
I think at some level you do understand what is happening. The OM does not wish to marry your wife and as long as she is married to you he does not have to worry about it. I think you realize that in a way he realized you were starting to destabilize and that could mean anything. You following her and disrupting the physical part of their R or you divorcing her which would cause financial stress and might prompt her to pressure him. And honestly if I were a man sleeping with someone else's wife, at some point I would actually feel sorry for him - guy to guy celibacy sympathy.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That's true. But, everything's relative. He was relatively content getting a paltry amount of sex from his wife in the early years of his marriage. Three years ago is when his wife decided that 15-20 times a year was too much sex. So that's when he became motivated to find a solution.


Ding ding ding..winner

That's exactly it... I was fine with monthly+ sex because in between there was some intimacy. Now going through this I built in some safeguards because operating at monthly + doesn't allow for much room for error at all that was my operational edge. 

So my new sex life will be tailored and skewed more towards my needs. Sure all along I would have likes to be banging my wife more but that's what I'm correcting now.

Its not all about sex or hanging with the national averages...its about maintaining a sex life both partners are cool with...thus a sex marriage vs sexless one.
Shes great in so many other ways.... so sex can take a bit of a back seat.

Took 3 years of hard work..but totally worth it if I can now put sex on autopilot and know
I have a normal type marriage.

Got it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

And all of you unless you have experienced a sexless marriage you
have absolutely no right to say anything about mine.

Pretty simple WE settled on our prior lower sex life, she got angry at me and its taken a few years to work that out withholding sex. Now we know what needs to happen so that our marriage survives a more normal sex life.

Its not rocket science.

I love my wife and was willing to fight for her.
My family remains intact and my sex life is fixed.
Wifes love fixed.We're good again.

Win/win


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And all of you unless you have experienced a sexless marriage you have absolutely no right to say anything about mine.


I had your marriage of monthly+ sex. Best thing that ever happened is that we divorced. I am much happier now + I get laid pretty often.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Pretty simple WE settled on our prior lower sex life, she got angry at me and its taken a few years to work that out withholding sex.


"WE" settled? I suspect that she settled on the lower sex life, not both of you.



Trying2figureitout said:


> My family remains intact and my sex life is fixed. Wifes love fixed.We're good again.
> 
> Win/win


I have read your posts and the responses. You have a plan with an unknown completion date and no documentable return on your investment. I agree with others, why would your wife want to invest in that plan? She has a win/win situation already, why change a good thing? 

To date, your posts are full of speculation and theoretical results. I would save publication of your plan until you can prove it works. Then I might take it seriously.

Instead of focusing so much on sex, how about you fix your relationship in general?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

C3156 said:


> I had your marriage of monthly+ sex. Best thing that ever happened is that we divorced. I am much happier now + I get laid pretty often.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We did fix the relationship..everything's great sex was the last domino to fall. WE simply had to rebuild the connection before she would want sex again. That's occurred earlier in the plan a few months ago.

My wife had some physical issues so that's why it went 10 months. Shes a lot better now but still recovering.

I am saving the plan until results are consistent so look for it later this year. I don't want the hecklers again. I simply
want to help other sexless men because frankly sexlessness sucks.

Want to give everyone a real success story to chew on. Also steps I recommend. It is about operating in stages and having a start and finish point.. slowly building up pressure for her to change her thoughts. THE PLAN.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Well, I will say welcome back!
Are your ears burning? I was just wondering the other day what happened to you, and how things were going in your life. 

Seems like you are still making an impression. 

The intentions of your plan sound logical to me. There are different ways to spin it, they don't always work for everyone, so a new viewpoint to it all should be helpful.

Getting back to romantic love is the goal of some posters.

For others... it's more about just getting their quota of sex, without the emotion or love. As a duty.

As a woman, though, I'll share a comment. My hubby has been doing all the right things and I do find myself falling in love with him again. But I still don't want to have sex with him. At all.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am copying this thread as an example of delusional behavior. Rants about success without any. If only wishing made it so....


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> We did fix the relationship..everything's great sex was the last domino to fall. WE simply had to rebuild the connection before she would want sex again. That's occurred earlier in the plan a few months ago.
> *
> My wife had some physical issues so that's why it went 10 months. Shes a lot better now but still recovering.*
> 
> ...


This bothers me and APPEARS to be a legit REASON, not EXCUSE, for sexlessness. If there were physical limitations preventing it, I can understand. But you keep throwing all sorts of things out there that make absolutely NO sense. So, I am not sure if you are for real or just stringing these sexless guys along. If it is the latter, I have to say it's in poor form, giving someone hope and then showing it isn't true. If it's the former, and all you have posted is true... man, you have a LOT more issues than you know.

Look, if you got the desired END result NOW, great. If not, just say so. And, even if it was just last night, it STILL breaks the 10 month streak, and would still count...and this is coming from one of the "hecklers". 

If this was merely a cry for attention.... I truly feel sorry for you.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

KanDo said:


> I am copying this thread as an example of delusional behavior. Rants about success without any. If only wishing made it so....


My dad always told me to wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which filled up faster.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> My dad always told me to *wish* in one hand and crap in the other and see which filled up faster.


Hmmm... mine always said "want"... same thing, I suppose


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Maricha 
She goes to the gym daily. 
No idea if she did or didn't have a woman's problem, but intercourse is not the only option unless you want no other option.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I just see too many red flags. She keeps in great shape. She dresses provocatively. She shaves her naughty bits. She refuses to have sex with her husband. And, she has an "EA" with another man.

I've seen that script before. I know how the movie ends.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But the movies don't have THE PLAN!


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

This thread just keeps getting more and more entertaining. Its a sit back with a bag of popcorn and soda kind of thread....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

I've found T2's theme song:

Who's The Man (With The Master Plan)


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> My dad always told me to wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which filled up faster.


I wish my hands were filled with crap....umm I mean filled with 
"The Plan"

so quit holding out and spell it out, step by step, detail by detail, and the results and the whys of each step.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Look its quite simple....

All you want proof so i'm going to get proof before releasing THE PLAN, I was going to release it early but none of you would take it seriously if it didn't have proof of working. I have some pretty outlandish steps you'd all go NO WAY did that step work... it did.

I don't want to send sexless guys into battle until I have proof of concept.

So therefore I decided to hold off on releasing THE PLAN until I can
show (have to trust me) that my wife and i are back on a sexual marriage track.

That may take a little while. So chill.

I only want to release it once I have proof also. I'm going to release the whole plan so you all can chew on the steps and ask me questions. Should be fun.


The plan WILL work just a matter of when. Hopefully we get busy this weekend but I don't have the final say I need a willing wife. Physically shes better so it should be a go (coming off monthly)... we'll see.

I think we are very close but again she knows once we start we are maintaining a new sex life. So just be patient I need some sex under my belt before its ready for prime time.

I will have a plan to end some/most sexless marriages and convert them into the husbands choice of a balanced sexlife, wife not involved in that decision which is good because obviously they pretty much stink at it.... THE PLAN is a good thing BTW you will thank me later. Got to run making dinner for the wife.

FIO


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll have some of your "proof" tonight for ya. 

Good luck!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I'll have some of your "proof" tonight for ya.
> 
> Good luck!


LOL

Me and you both sista


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I had some of that proof last night... and again this morning. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

lol me too.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> Trying, I hope you are taking all the ribbing in good stride, honestly.
> 
> I really honestly hope whatever it is you are doing gets the results you want. Really and truely.


I am... although I'm not sure other sexless men are.

Look not everyone is luck to have a wife that likes a lot of sex that doesn't make her a bad person. Those of you who say you have a daily sex life whatever...good for you.

I'll be happy having occasional sex with my lovely wife she is my one true love and that makes it so much better.

Just realize sexlessness does take its toll and some guys may take offense to the "I'm getting it tonight or this morning ' stuff...the only reason I don't is I know its coming to an end soon.

All of you could easily at some point end up sexless too. So appreciate what you have now.

I know I deserve some of this but you have to realize the topic of this thread also.

Thanks for the good luck... I can use all the help I can get.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Trying your problem from what I read is that your wife is cheating. Until you either put your foot down and put a stop to it or divorce her... you won't be getting the sex and intimacy your aiming for. Hell you won't get her love either as she is investing everything in this OM. Trauma or not.. you need to set boundaries and keep them firm. Her having a traumatic experience in life is no reason for her to do as she wishes. I honestly can't understand why you sit there and take this... your making excuse after excuse and trying to rationalize her behavior as ok. Its not ok and your basically letting yourself be a doormat.


This sort of guide is not good for anyone for this reason. Your bending over backwards for her and she isn't doing much in return from what I read. Your doing far to much compromising. Sure there are those with low libido but there are ways to increase that. You should make it part of your plan for her to be putting in effort as well not just you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Bravo. Best thing I've read on this thread yet. Good job, Gaia.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I am... although I'm not sure other sexless men are.
> 
> Look not everyone is luck to have a wife that likes a lot of sex that doesn't make her a bad person. Those of you who say you have a daily sex life whatever...good for you.
> 
> ...


Really you don't get it. You had a bad sexlife, but one in any case for years and years. For almost 4 years (and I am pretty sure you stated i was 3 years last October) you've had an atrocious sex life, you got the ILYBNILWY crap, she is having an EA, she is continually flirting, dressing provocatively, going to the gym, cuckolded you at some work functions and you haven't had any in well over a year (it was I'm pretty sure already 3-4 months at least last year when you first posted). You've had getaways, romantic nights, holidays, foot rubs..... and nothing. Still no pecks, hugging anything....

She is not LD, she is an iceberg and the best you may get (and that is probably a longshot) is a mercy [email protected]#k..... 

While I think you have a boatload of issues and need to talk to a counselor stat, she is not a very nice person at all...... 

Sorry.....


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. I can see your points from afar. I know you think I make excuses for her and I do. Really what this all boils down to is my wife is pretty self-centered and I'm pretty accommodating. This almost three years has been a correction of those qualities in our personalities.

She goes all day long up 4am...work..gym...dinner/home...bed by 9pm
she does not have any spare time to cheat. It a tired issue... shes a morning person and not a night person,

She used to be fat and she has vein issues (clot) so the gym is her way of maintaining health. She needs it more than the average person (she may die if she doesn't) and does enjoy it also. She busts her tail at the gym.

Yes she is social (she knows everyone)... always has been that way. I'm sure she started up with this guy in order to get some emotional connection during the time after ILYNILWY that doesn't mean she fell for him though... I don't believe she has feelings for him more as a good friend. She has throughout had guy friends, she does not have a strong female friend like most women. She gets along with men more so they probably take the place of a close female best friend. Doesn't mean shes cheating it just her way of getting emotional support... its always been like this and wasn't an issue until sexlessness.

I'm sure three years ago she wasn't sure what was going to happen... I had not changed and she felt trapped. So I'm sure she like I did afterwards was prepping in case this didn't work out. Both of us can easily attract the other sex. I choose not to even try at all and don't pursue any attention... she I think likes the attention but keeps it at a friend level.

I believe my wife just thinks she does enough. That all of us should be happy with what she does. She simply up until now didn't realize how important sex was in a marriage. She gets her needs met just living life and being with me. I need her sexually shes freakin hot. So that's our issue.

We are improving and we will have a sexlife and it won't be a mercy F. She doesn't do those... again she is self-centered AND she knows I wouldn't settle for that. Part of why we've been extreme sexless is I insist on her being fully involved and not just lying there as a masturbation doll. I need her like she used to be. Otherwise I'll remain sexless. There is both a quality and quantity component to the plan.

I will not go a year 4 because one can only do as much as you can.... she knows I'm serious so I'm pretty sure we right this ship and learn from both our mistakes.

She simply has to reallocate activities to allow for sex and find a way not to bee so freakin tired every night... Up at 4am working all day and busting tail at gym... tires her out. I think really our sex issues are mostly that... tired issues. (90% tired, 10% grudge)

When occasionally she goes on girls nights out she slams 5-hour energies to stay up. I don't think shes willing to do that for sex.

I'm Ok with it because we are fixing it via the plan. She simply has to find her way to allow for enough sex in our lives and allow for a decent sex life. Before you ask she was freakin tired last night and had an all day headache. NO she doesn't have headaches often.

FIO


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You just don't mind being last on her list.

Sex is not "cheating" in a schedule. It should be part of her schedule. And I think it is, just not with you. Your wife shows all the signs of a cheater.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

T2FIO

I may have missed if anyone else asked this or if you said already, but do you have a cut-off point? Do you have a date in mind, that if nothing has happened by, you'll say to her, right I'm out, I want a divorce?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> You just don't mind being last on her list.
> 
> Sex is not "cheating" in a schedule. It should be part of her schedule. And I think it is, just not with you. Your wife shows all the signs of a cheater.


:iagree:
Really, if there is time to go to the gym everyday, or time to go out with her friends, there is NO REASON for not making time for her husband. None. No reason not to have sex on the "agenda"...WITH HER HUSBAND... at least ONCE each WEEK. Sex is exercise too...even MORE exercise when you get more creative. 

And yes, T2, in response to what you said earlier about appreciating what you have because you could lose that at any time... I DO appreciate it. Because I know how close I was to losing what I have... because I sought emotional attention elsewhere, I detached from my husband... I cheated on him, emotionally. And it didn't matter how much he tried to "nice me out of it", I would have none of it. I was content in how things were, and I gave him JUST enough to make him think there was hope. Yes, I turned around, but it wasn't anything he did... He didn't have to "rewire my mind"...the idea of my husband trying that is laughable. I had to change MY thought process MYSELF. HE COULD NOT DO IT. YOU CAN NOT DO IT. Only YOUR WIFE can change HERSELF!

But I have to say... she makes her friends a priority over her own husband... that speaks volumes.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

tobio said:


> T2FIO
> 
> I may have missed if anyone else asked this or if you said already, but do you have a cut-off point? Do you have a date in mind, that if nothing has happened by, you'll say to her, right I'm out, I want a divorce?


Yes, there will not be a year 4. I will be out and never look back.
In this process my wife was made aware last year "I was done" it was up to her and I asked her not to keep me in "limbo" and if she could not find a way back to me to simply pick a date in the future and leave me. I told her I'll give her more time to figure out what she needs to do.

Fast forward another year... still in limbo so I simply informed her three years is enough and I will not tolerate going into a year 4.
Still up to her. I realize SHE needs to change her own mind. I simply help guide it.

So she knows what that means. I don't mix words. If we are not totally good by the end of his next year...I am out. Shes aware and IS coming back to me. She is not a cheater, she is going through a midlife adjustment.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Yes, there will not be a year 4. I will be out and never look back.
> In this process my wife was made aware last year "I was done" it was up to her and I asked her not to keep me in "limbo" and if she could not find a way back to me to simply pick a date in the future and leave me. I told her I'll give her more time to figure out what she needs to do.
> 
> Fast forward another year... still in limbo so I simply informed her three years is enough and I will not tolerate going into a year 4.
> ...


To be sure the timeline is right... it has been 2 years and 10 months....essentially, 3 years. The first two years, you had a sexlife, but it was nearly non-existent. The last 10 months have been ZERO sex, correct? But you are giving her yet ANOTHER year? You say "no year 4", but you are GIVING her "year 4"...at least, the CHANCE for "year 4". I know you won't see it that way, unfortunately. =/


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Sorry....but do you read what you write and how others will see it? You will do without until, if ever, your wife decides otherwise. She knows she is firmly in control. Your statements are meaningless to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FiguredItOut (Sep 29, 2012)

I have found a plan that sounds like it is just what is needed for the relationship described in this thread.

Pleasing Today's Woman: Becoming The Man You Need To Be

A step by step plan for men dealing with sexlessness, unfaithfulness, betrayal, and loss of trust in their relationships with women. this plan profiles today’s woman, her issues, and how a man can shape himself to her specifications.

Introduction 
Subjects of Major Concern 
Before You Begin 
Phase 1 - Changing For Her 
1.1.	Mandatory Adjustments In Attitude 
1.1.1.	Never Question Her Authority 
1.1.1.1.	Loving Her Unconditionally 
1.1.1.2.	The Necessity Of Obedience 
1.1.2.	Snap-To! 
1.1.2.1.	The Mistake Of Inattentiveness 
1.1.2.2.	Taking Seriously Her Every Word 
1.1.3.	On Groveling 
1.1.3.1.	Re-defining Manhood 
1.1.3.2.	Caspar Milquetoast, Or The New Virility? 
1.1.3.3.	Degradation, Or Consciously Measured Sublimation? 
1.1.4.	Attitudinal Adjustments 
1.1.4.1.	Aggression Versus Passivity 
1.1.4.2.	The Joys Of Yielding 
1.1.4.3.	De-Commissioning The Ego 
1.1.4.4.	The Art Of Harmlessness 
1.1.5.	Mental Re-Construction 
1.1.5.1.	Learning When, And When Not, To Offer Your Opinion 
1.1.5.2.	Modifying Your Needs, Desires, And Expectations 
1.1.5.3.	Filtering Your Thoughts 
1.1.5.4.	When Your Sense Of Humor Must Conform To Hers 
1.1.5.5.	Note-Taking, And Effective Conversational Techniques 
1.1.6.	Confession 
1.1.6.1.	More Weight On Her, Or The Road To Manhood? 
1.1.6.2.	Gauging Her Responses To Your Openness 
1.1.6.3.	Can You Be Too Honest? 
1.1.7.	Promises, Expectations, And Duty 
1.1.7.1.	Your End Of The Bargain 
1.1.7.2.	Missing Assignments, Failed Expectations 
1.1.7.3.	Coping with Her Disappointment 
1.1.8.	Flexible Honor 
1.1.8.1.	How Not To Be Thwarted By Personal Dignity 
1.1.8.2.	False Versus Earned Pride 
1.1.8.3.	Standing Tall, Or Giving Way? 
1.1.8.4.	When Resistance Is Not An Option 
1.1.8.5.	What You Stand To Lose, And Gain 
1.1.9.	Sexist Tendencies 
1.1.9.1.	Words, Statements, And Principles You Must Avoid 
1.1.9.2.	On The Meaning Of Commitment 
1.1.10.	Taking It Personally 
1.1.10.1.	The Necessity Of Personal Criticism 
1.1.10.2.	When You Are Wrong 
1.1.10.3.	Should You Take Notes? 
1.1.10.4.	What Her Doubts Ultimately Say About You 
1.1.10.5.	Who You Really Are, And Are Not 
1.1.10.6.	Who You Ought To Be, And Ought To Have Been 
1.1.11.	Going The Extra Mile 
1.1.11.1.	Recognizing Which Characteristics Need Changing 
1.1.11.2.	Ordering, Prioritizing, And Scheduling Your Changes 
1.1.11.3.	Measuring Your Progress 
1.1.11.4.	On The Concept of Fairness 
1.1.12.	Becoming Compliant 
1.1.12.1.	Learning To Check Smart-Ass Remarks 
1.1.12.2.	A Word About Your Friends 
1.1.12.3.	Removing Argumentative And Accusative Behavior 
1.1.12.4.	Neutralizing Inappropriate Emotions 
1.1.12.5.	De-Activating Bitterness 
1.1.12.6.	Forgiveness, And Memory-Cleansing 
1.1.13.	Tethered To Her 
1.1.13.1.	Post-Adolescent Nursing 
1.1.13.2.	The Dangers, And Delights, Of Excessive Clinging 
1.1.14.	Crying 
1.1.14.1.	Sensitivity, And Letting Go 
1.1.14.2.	Too Much Of A Good Thing? 
1.1.15.	Healthy Beatings 
1.1.15.1.	Taking It Like A Man 
1.1.15.2.	The Benefits Of A Good Face Slap 
1.1.15.3.	Your Pain, Her Pleasure 
1.1.15.4.	Preparing For Her Fists 
1.1.15.5.	Cosmetic Advice, And Repairing The Damage 

1.2.	The Physical You 
1.2.1.	General Guidelines For Maximum Inoffensiveness 
1.2.1.1.	An Overview 
1.2.2.	Primer On Personal Hygiene 
1.2.2.1.	Attending To The Details 
1.2.2.2.	Can You Be Too Clean? 
1.2.2.3.	Disease, Illness, And How To Avoid Contaminating Her 
1.2.2.4.	Odors 
1.2.2.5.	Body Hair 
1.2.2.6.	Six-Pack Abs, And Body Sculpting 
1.2.2.7.	Perfecting Skin Care 
1.2.2.8.	Farting, And Other Noises Emanating From You 
1.2.3.	Alcohol, Drugs, And Tobacco 
1.2.3.1.	No No’s For You, Options For Her 
1.2.3.2.	Addendum: When She Comes Home Intoxicated 
1.2.4.	Posing 
1.2.4.1.	Mirrors Are Man’s Best Friend 
1.2.4.2.	Becoming Physically Desirable 
1.2.4.3.	Posturing, Body Language, And Positions To Avoid 
1.2.5.	Perfecting Your Appearance 
1.2.5.1.	Should You Consider Surgery? 
1.2.5.2.	When Is It Time To Bleach Your Teeth? 
1.2.5.3.	Artificial Versus Natural Tanning 
1.2.5.4.	Fashion Tips: What Not To Wear 
1.2.6.	Your Penis 
1.2.6.1.	Size Does Matter 
1.2.6.2.	Advice For Those Suffering From Inadequacy 
1.2.6.3.	Training Your Penis For Her Pleasure 
1.2.6.4.	Gauging The Quality Of Her Orgasms 
1.2.6.5.	Sexual Aids, Viagra, And Augmenting Performance 
1.2.7.	Recognizing When One Penis Isn’t Enough 

2.	Phase 2 - Her Needs And Techniques For Pleasing Her 
2.1.	To Please Her 
2.1.1.	The Highest -And Only- Value 
2.1.2.	Approval At All Cost 
2.2.	Accepting And Enjoying Her Individuality 
2.2.1.	Anticipation: Staying Ahead Of The Game 
2.2.2.	What She Requires 
2.3.	Facilitating Her Ballistics 
2.3.1.	Cultivating Her Explosions 
2.3.2.	An Exercise: Practical Venting 
2.3.3.	Freeing Her Defensiveness 
2.3.4.	The Joy Of Her Every Gesture 
2.3.5.	Savoring Whatever She Gives You 
2.4.	The Reason Why 
2.4.1.	Understanding Its Place In The History Of Relationships 
2.4.2.	Proper Attitude When Faced With Why 
2.4.3.	When A Woman Asks Why 
2.5.	Offering Explanations 
2.5.1.	To Calm, Or Ignite? 
2.5.2.	The Art Of The Apology 
2.5.3.	Successful Excuses For Repeated Failures 
2.6.	Irritability, Or Opportunity 
2.6.1.	Never Call Her ‘Moody’ 
2.6.2.	Accepting Your Responsibility 
2.6.3.	PMS, And Why It’s Ultimately Your Fault 
2.7.	Stress 
2.7.1.	Your Reaction To Hers 
2.7.2.	Mitigating Your Tension 
2.7.3.	Taking Her Problems On As Yours 
2.7.4.	On Money 
2.8.	Guaranteeing The Future 
2.8.1.	Ensuring The Future Is What She Expects 
2.8.2.	Preparing For The Unexpected 
2.9.	Your Needs, And Her Schedule 
2.9.1.	You Need Her, But She May Not Need You 
2.9.2.	Frigidity, Or Your Failure To Please? 
2.9.3.	Untimely And Offensive Erections 
2.9.4.	Pornography, And Your Faithful Right Hand 
2.10.	Time Away From Her 
2.10.1.	Recognizing When She’s Had Enough Of You 
2.10.2.	Advice On Free Time 
2.10.3.	Six Things Never To Do When Away From Her 
2.11.	Marriage And Family 
2.11.1.	The Decision Is Always Hers 
2.11.2.	Is Your Genetic Code Up To Her Standards? 
2.11.3.	Children Through Other Means 
2.12.	Repairing The Damage 
2.12.1.	When Divorce Is Inevitable 
2.12.2.	Taking Responsibility 
2.12.3.	Where To Go From Here 

3.	Phase 3 - Her Sexual Exploration and The Recreational Philosophy 
3.1.	Her Spiritual Journey 
3.1.1.	The Elements Of 
3.1.2.	An Historical Overview 
3.1.3.	Recreational Partnering, And Spiritual Perfection 
3.1.4.	Choice, The Holy Grail 
3.1.5.	Creativity 
3.2.	Just Friends? 
3.2.1.	The Meaning And Value Of Her Friends 
3.2.2.	The Shame Of Jealousy 
3.2.3.	Monogamy, The False Value 
3.2.4.	How To Avoid Possessiveness 
3.2.5.	For Men With Difficulty Adjusting To Her Friends 
3.3.	On Variety 
3.3.1.	The Joy Of Choice 
3.3.2.	Sexaholism, Or Healthy Sexual Appetite? 
3.4.	Sharing 
3.4.1.	The Meaning Of Sharing, And Giving 
3.4.2.	Your Place In Her Sexual Development 
3.4.3.	The Value Of Her Discoveries 
3.4.4.	How To Appreciate And Share In Her Special Moments 
3.4.5.	Six Things Never To Say After She’s Come Home 
3.5.	Betrayal, Or Mis-Communication? 
3.5.1.	Terminology 
3.5.2.	Who Really Is The Victim? 
3.5.3.	A Short Summation 
3.6.	Taking An Active Role 
3.6.1.	On The Selection Of Her Recreational Partners 
3.6.2.	Emphasizing The Right Qualifications 
3.6.3.	Should You Actively Recruit? 
3.7.	Controlled Conditions: Pre-Coitus 
3.7.1.	Preparing The Setting For Her Recreational Partnering 
3.7.2.	Shopping For Them: Tacky Items To Avoid 
3.7.3.	Things You Shouldn’t Serve 
3.7.4.	Gift Suggestions: Practical, Or Entertaining? 
3.8.	Controlled Conditions: On The Brink Of Coitus 
3.8.1.	Meeting Him/Them For The First Time 
3.8.2.	Suggested Topics For Their Pillow Talk 
3.8.3.	Massage, Fluffing, And How Not To Intrude 
3.8.4.	Condom Etiquette 
3.9.	Controlled Conditions: Beyond Coitus 
3.9.1.	Keeping Your Problems Out Of Their Way 
3.9.2.	Documenting The Process 
3.9.3.	How To Recognize You’re No Longer Needed 
3.9.4.	The Aftermath, And The Long Haul 
3.9.5.	The Joy Of Knowing They’re Happy 
3.10.	Worrying About Him/Them 
3.10.1.	Making The Event More Pleasurable For Him/Them 
3.10.2.	Questions Never To Ask Him/Them Before Coitus 
3.10.3.	Recognizing If He/They Are Eating/Sleeping Properly 
3.11.	Special Circumstances 
3.11.1.	Group Dynamics 
3.11.2.	Tender Lesbianism, And Needs You May Never Fulfill 
3.11.3.	Her Need For Celibacy, Or Self-Gratification 

Recommended Reading List 
Primary (Ancient) Texts 
Secondary (Modern) Texts 

References


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ive asked this before and im going to ask it again on this thread....have you gone up to your wife and told her to get on the bed and that you want her and you are going to have her? Theres a lot of...doing other things....but what about just going for the gold? Going for the gold in a different way then what you have done in the past.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Ive asked this before and im going to ask it again on this thread....have you gone up to your wife and told her to get on the bed and that you want her and you are going to have her? Theres a lot of...doing other things....but what about just going for the gold? Going for the gold in a different way then what you have done in the past.


But... he can't do that.... if he did that, then she wouldn't be making the most logical choice... to choose him.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> But... he can't do that.... if he did that, then she wouldn't be making the most logical choice... to choose him.


What if he walked up to her and said "you need to learn to put your head on the right pillow honey, and that right pillow is the one filled with money." i just love that mama elsa!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> :iagree:
> Really, if there is time to go to the gym everyday, or time to go out with her friends, there is NO REASON for not making time for her husband. None. No reason not to have sex on the "agenda"...WITH HER HUSBAND... at least ONCE each WEEK. Sex is exercise too...even MORE exercise when you get more creative.
> 
> And yes, T2, in response to what you said earlier about appreciating what you have because you could lose that at any time... I DO appreciate it. Because I know how close I was to losing what I have... because I sought emotional attention elsewhere, I detached from my husband... I cheated on him, emotionally. And it didn't matter how much he tried to "nice me out of it", I would have none of it. I was content in how things were, and I gave him JUST enough to make him think there was hope. Yes, I turned around, but it wasn't anything he did... He didn't have to "rewire my mind"...the idea of my husband trying that is laughable. I had to change MY thought process MYSELF. HE COULD NOT DO IT. YOU CAN NOT DO IT. Only YOUR WIFE can change HERSELF!
> ...



Ladies you take the freaking easy way out always. Instead of fixing issues in your marriage you feel its a-0k to let your husbands suffer. If that's he way you were brought up I feel sad for you. Look you married your husband and you HAD NO RIGHT to even think of another man during your marriage,

This is exactly why everyone her is so screwed up. You all were not raised correctly your freaking parents. You probably slept around in high school. Probably a tease.

How would you like it it your husband banged another girl...its the EXACT same as what you did to him because for women its NOT physical its emotional. So you flat out cheated JUST AS much as him stooping some young chick.

I am so tired of these women thinking sex is optional in a marriage. Oh its my emotons he doesn't understand me... LOOK AT THE FREAKING RING! Marriage is WORK.

Sorry for blasting you but it's the truth you had no right letting your emotional needs get the best of you. YOU WERE WEAK. YOU TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT.

All of us guys should just divorce your sorry unregulated behaviors. Of its too hard to work on things as a partnership isn't it, Go look elsewher to get your needs filled...ARGH!

Easy way out isn't it ladies.... you are the weaker sex. Withhold sex because you can...THATS THE MOST SELFISH THING YOU CAN DO to the person you promised to love for life.
You should be ashamed for any anytime you purposely withheld sex. ESPECIALLY while you were cheating on him emotionally. Why on earth do we put up with your ****

And you think I have issues..look in the freakin mirror. At least I don't do two wrongs, I believe in the vows of you should not covet others. You had no right to do what you did at all. And you all think my marriage has issues look in the mirrors.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What are you talking about?

Perhaps say those words to your wife. That's who they were intended for anyway.

I never cheated on my husband. So I don't know who you are talking to when you say, "you girls" or whatever.


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