# My Wife Left Last Tuesday



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My wife has been upset about finances. She also had her father die suddenly three weeks ago in a car wreck. We have been married just under 14 years.

She went away for the weekend with her girlfriends and told them she was thinking about leaving me. She told them she still loved me just couldn't stay any longer.

She came home from her trip on the Saturday. We went shopping like always and had a great BBQ. On Sunday we took the kids to camp. From that moment on she stopped talking to me. I didn't say anything thinking it would make it worse. 

On Tuesday I came home from work to find her stuff gone and a letter on the counter. She said we both know it's over, I was a good man and take care of myself. She needs to be free. She is 34 I am 40.

Only three weeks earlier she was all over me telling me she loved me more than ever, during the July 1st weekend we cuddled watching the fireworks with our kids.

Now she's gone.

It has been a week and we haven't spoken. She left me with an 8 year old and 12 year old girl. She is living with a friend from work and I know she is struggling since she only works part time.

I just wan her to come home. We are partners in a business everything we have is in joint accounts. She has only seen the kids once in two weeks and says to my daughter in a text that she might see them next week.

So far the girls are doing ok.


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## samyeagar

It doesn't matter what you want. You can't make her want anything. It is particularly troubling that she, a mother, would willing leave her children so abruptly.


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## jh52

Her father dying in a car wreck three weeks ago is a life changing event -- that people react to in different way. Your wife needs to get to an IC and talk about her issues that she is having within herself.

To be honest -- her leaving the kids behind than she leaving you tells me she has deeper issues that she needs to admit to and confront/resolve.

Good luck !!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do agree... but after her dad died I saw her attitude change. I mentioned maybe she was depressed and she went off the handle. She was estranged from her dad since she was 14.. but always hoped one day he would call. He never did. He never saw his little girl get married or met either of his grandkids.

I had to tell her that he died as i was the one who found out first. That was terrible. Three weeks later I had to tell my girls that their mother had left. That was the most horrible thing I have ever done in my life.

When she did talk about leaving she said that she couldn't trust me to man up and look after the bills and groceries and other things around the house. She said she had been hinting but it never got through. She said she probably wasn't gonna stay. I made the money.. she was sick of having to do all the finances.

But when we went out shopping she kept saying WE on everything. I thought we were gonna work it out.

Since she has been gone I have gone through every dime of debt and figured out what we would need to get through the debt. I guess i just did it too late.


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## DjF

Man up now and cut off the joint finances...she ow she responds to that!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... last week I paid some bills from her paycheck. She told me to put it back. I told her that she will have to contribute to the house her children live in. She works part time and she said i need to give her time to find a second job so she can give me some child support.

She said her money was hers.. she would pay half the insurance on the cars/ half the life insurance and half the cell phone bills but nothing to do with the house.


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## DjF

is the house in her name too?


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## the guy

So who is this friend/coworker?
Aren't you the least pit curious on what she is up to?
How much money is she milking out of the joint account?
How much debt is she racking up while still your wife?

Now is not the time to have a pity party, but pull your boot straps up and get busy in finding out everything you can about what is really going on.

Being in the dark is the best way to get screwed over and unprotected, emotionally and finacially.

Soon she will start to really miss the kids and she will want them, and you won't have a clue as to were or what your WAW is exposing them too.

Sure she *was* a great mother, but she isn't the same mother now, so get busy and investigate what she has become, and protect your self.

Filing for divorce and having her served is completely different then when the divorce is finalized, there is always a waiting period and during this time she may turn a corner back to the family.

But she must see that there are consequences for the way she is behaving.

Sure she lost her father before resolving some issues and is meesed up, put normaly folks get the help they need in dealing with there problems before tearing a family apart.

So please take some time and quitely look into her current behavior, Don't tell her and go get some answers.

Start with cell phone and credit card statements. Google search the friend/co worker and get there story. Look at internet history on the computor she uses if you still have it. Check social sites.

Start digging around and see what come up it may answer some questions.


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## tacoma

Seperate yoursel financially, all bills cards accounts seperate.
Do this immediately.

Check her phone logs and email for communication with an OM.

Who is the friend she moved in with?

Male, female?
Married, divorced
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The girl is a single lady she works with. I have a few friends that know her and she is not a very nice lady. I think it was the only room she could find to stay at.

We are co on everything we own except the vehicles. That are all in my name.

I sent her a love note an hour ago telling her how I felt about her. I didn't beg or anything. Just told her I love her and miss her. I didn't even mention the children.

She hasn't changed her password on FB so I could easily log in from here but i don't want to. She did un-friend me and put her status to single.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Of course I am curious to what she is doing. Her family is pissed at her. She hasn't talked to her best friend since she left. She literally walked away from her entire life...


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## lulubelle

you've already gotten some great advice. my thoughts pretty much mirror others.
1 she needs IC. there are issues she's not dealing with
2 separate finances. she isn't behaving in a "normal" way, so don't put anything past her. she wants to be on her own, fine. you shouldn't have to foot the bill.
3 talk to a lawyer and consider filing. if you guys R, you can choose cancel.
4 find out if there's somebody else or a bad influence in her life. definitely start with phone and computer records.
5 consider family counseling for you and or your kids.

please post/vent/ask questions here as much as you want. we have all experienced, to some extent, what you are going through.


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Of course I am curious to what she is doing. Her family is pissed at her. She hasn't talked to her best friend since she left. She literally walked away from her entire life...


same thing happened to me, dear. his friends, family, even his best friends parents were shocked and pissed by his leaving. one of his best friends told me they were going to make "team lauren" t shirts. 

very often i think walk aways block everyone out. probably because deep down they know what they're doing is wrong.


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## keko

Sounds like she found a boyfriend.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When I went to the bank to tell them what happened she insisted that I get my own bank account and to get any direct deposits moved to that account. She will also not be able to see our bank manager now since we are separated there are privacy reasons.

I just never realized how much she did. It's tough making a budget.. and now i need to go shopping on my own for the first time in 16 years. ( married 14 together 16)


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I can't sleep in our bed anymore.. I end up on the couch sleeping maybe 4 hours a night. My 8 year old daughter took over our bed.

I have to have the TV on to be able to sleep.. even at 1 or two hours at a time. 

I have lost 17 lbs in the last week and just don't feel like eating. 

It's a good thing I'm on anti-depression medication or i would be a wreck. The last 2 hours before i take my meds is awful but i know i can't take them too earlier or it would run out before bed and I wouldn't get any sleep.


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## lulubelle

the first month or so is really hard. i remember i thought there was no way i could do everything on my own. somehow i did though, and i realized i'm alot stronger than i thought i was! my boys are 8,9,and almost 12 so i understand the extra stress of having young children.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am getting stronger each day.. but still feel the pain of my wife being out of the house. It is a pain that is deep in your soul.


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## the guy

I went out to my favorite resturant and got my favorite meal to go. Then I could pick at it from time to time. It was better then nothing, and it at least kept some food in my belly and gave me some energy....enough to take care of business with regards to my cheating wife.

You have to take care of your self brother, your kids needs you more then ever. Go work out that will help alot.

And no more love letters, stop rewarding her for her current behavior she has towards you and her kid....especially her kid!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I suppose your right. I just wanted it out there. She can do with it what she wants. I doubt i will even get a response from her.

It is just something that I wanted to do. To let her know that I do care and love her.

I haven't even asked about going to counseling. I don't know if her being gone makes it too late for that.


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## MyselfAgain

Whether she will go to counseling is up to her. Your job from now on is to focus on taking care of yourself and your children. I wouldn't even consider MC until she does IC first, and frankly if you suggest she go to IC she might want to do it even less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When she talked to me the saturday before she left she did say she would go to IC. Now since I haven't talked to her i don't know if that will happen.


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I suppose your right. I just wanted it out there. She can do with it what she wants. I doubt i will even get a response from her.
> 
> It is just something that I wanted to do. To let her know that I do care and love her.
> 
> I haven't even asked about going to counseling. I don't know if her being gone makes it too late for that.


i wrote many love letters and "fixing" letters at first that went unanswered or i'd get a thank you text. from now on, write it here or write the letter and then burn or shred it. i get much relief from writing, but i no longer share my thoughts with him.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is going to be my only one. I read it to two lady friends and they both almost cried. They said they would have loved to get that from their husbands during a break up.

The ball is in her court.

I will say that talking here does help the pain. It's good to know I'm not alone. 

I really do dread the though of starting over at 40. I'm fixed so i can't meet a woman who wants to start a family and my girls come as a package with me.

My ex can start a new family.. she is only 34 and only has to stop taking her pills. 

Do woman want a man with children? It would seem I would come with quite a bit of baggage.

Right now I'm not thinking about moving on. I would like to repair what I have.


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## DjF

Go get some IC for you and for the girls...be the best dad you can be, learn to love yourself again before worrying about loving others...

keep posting here...it does help!


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> This is going to be my only one. I read it to two lady friends and they both almost cried. They said they would have loved to get that from their husbands during a break up.
> 
> The ball is in her court.
> 
> I will say that talking here does help the pain. It's good to know I'm not alone.
> 
> I really do dread the though of starting over at 40. I'm fixed so i can't meet a woman who wants to start a family and my girls come as a package with me.
> 
> My ex can start a new family.. she is only 34 and only has to stop taking her pills.
> 
> Do woman want a man with children? It would seem I would come with quite a bit of baggage.
> 
> Right now I'm not thinking about moving on. I would like to repair what I have.


im in my mid 30's and i have 3 kids from my first marriage. i'm still hopeful for R someday, so i'm not dating either but when chad and i started dating, i was open that i had children and didn't really want to have more and he was fine with that. granted, maybe not a great example since we are separated right now! you would be surprised how many woman would jump at the chance to date you. good guys are hard to find, and for woman who love kids, your daughters would be a bonus not baggage.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you. My daughters are a bonus. Both are straight A students. My oldest just got her 3rd honors award.

I will not put a woman in front of my girls.


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## our vision shattered

im 43 turning 44 in oct, i have 4 biological children & a step son, when i met my wife i had full custody of 3 very small kids & it didn't matter to my wife. i was 30 then & she was 19, she helped raise my kids as her own over the last 13 years. of course now i'm sitting the same damn hell as i was then but never worry about your kids as baggage, know that no matter hwat your kids will always love you unconditionally forever. work on your physical appearance, your stamina. since i've done that i get a lot of looks from ladies. i'm no where near dating anybody & i seriously could make 1 phone call & have a hot blonde eating out of my hands right now, no thanks as until i know my marrital situation i refuse to look that far ahead


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Was it wrong to tell her how i felt today since she has only been gone a week?


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Was it wrong to tell her how i felt today since she has only been gone a week?


yes, but don't beat yourself up over it. try to be indifferent towards her and give her space. fake it the best you can. if she sees you doing well and moving on, it might make her question her choices. if you're pouring your heart out and she knows you're still there, still waiting in the wings then she has the power to string you along.

i know it feels like the right thing to be open and honest with your feelings to her and want to fix things, but it will just push her farther away. it doesn't make sense i know! when i started to 180 and did nc, it felt totally wrong, but i think it's working. the bonus for me is i feel better about myself than i have in a long time.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know if she read the letter. She responded from another e-mail account she has, not the one I sent the letter too.

She sent me a link to a job posting since I was thinking about getting back into the HR field after running our restaurant for the past year and a half.

"wasn't sure if you are still trying to find another job, thought you might be interested in this......"

that was it..


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## lulubelle

that's fine. for your sanities sake, maybe just pretend it was lost in cyber space!
read up on nc and 180. these stratagies will not only help you heal and be the best you that you can be for yourself and your girls, but it also is probably the best move you can make if you desire R with your wife. this forum helps alot too. come here to vent, scream, cry, rant. say all the things you want to say to her here instead. it feels good to get it all out.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Before I read this I had already replied "Thank you for the ad" to her E-mail and actually applied for the job.


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## lulubelle

that's fine. from this point on, don't contact her unless you absolutely have to (if it's about the kids or business). do not respond to her unless you have to. so, if she texts "how are you doing? did you hear anything from the job you applied for? can i pick up the girls at 3 this friday?" wait 15 minutes and text her "yes, 3 works for us." keep it simple. when she chose to leave, she gave up her right to know how/what you are doing.
i know it seems like the opposite of what your heart tells you to do! just try it for a week or 2 and see what happens.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It does seem like the opposite of what my heart is saying. I do get what you are saying though.

I just keep thinking... is she hurting too?


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## the guy

Have you read mma2012 thread "6+yrs and wife doesnt love me" these 2 threads sound very simular and you may get some good perspectives and what to expect.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will check it out.


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It does seem like the opposite of what my heart is saying. I do get what you are saying though.
> 
> I just keep thinking... is she hurting too?


i know honey. i was exactly in your shoes a few months ago, and if i could press fast forward for you, i would in a heart beat.


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## the guy

Why would she be hurting? She got what she wanted and has suffered no consequences for her ripping a family apart.
She knows you will always bethere for her no matter what, so she has nothing to lose by treating you and the kids this way.

As you sit on your hands your wife continues like nothing is wrong.

Until you take the drastic steps.....well lets just say give your self some time it will become clear enough on what you need to do. 

IMHO this nice guy approach is getting you no were.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I agree but I'm only a week in. 

She said before she left that she wanted me to man up... to take care of paying the bills, to get a decent job that pays better, to get this house fixed up, to be a man of my word.

In on my way to all of those things. I wonder is she is sitting back to seeing if I will actually become this man.

She said I worried about money too much.. and like in the past if I just was positive it would all work out. Actually it usually did work out in the money department if we were in a real pickle.

I do agree that I did need a kick in the pants to get things done..but she gave me a kick in the nuts instead.

Her sending me the job posting seems to me that she wants to see if I will take the advice and go with it. To become that better man.


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## lulubelle

become a better man, but do it for you, not for her.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do agree... I will be 40 in August ( actually the day after my anniversary)..I need to get my head on straight


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## DjF

All most likely true Plan 9, but Sadwithtwolittlegirls shouldn't waste time worry about woulda/coulda/shoulda while he is waiting for his wife to "woman up"...

he has got to let that all go, be a fantastic dad, and work on getting his own head on straight...seems like he has a good start on it already...

Take care Sadwithtwolittlegirls!!!


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## lulubelle

DjF said:


> All most likely true Plan 9, but Sadwithtwolittlegirls shouldn't waste time worry about woulda/coulda/shoulda while he is waiting for his wife to "woman up"...
> 
> he has got to let that all go, be a fantastic dad, and work on getting his own head on straight...seems like he has a good start on it already...
> 
> Take care Sadwithtwolittlegirls!!!


:iagree:
i don't think the walk away's are always just selfish jerks out having a great time. some of them are going through a real mind f*ck of there own. a mini break down if you will. does this make their actions acceptable? of course not. become the best you you can be. tell your wife to take this time to work on herself. sometimes a little time and space can help heal. getting angry and playing the blame game will get you no where.


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## mma2012

the_guy pointed me to this thread, as it looks like he pointed you to my thread as well. We are definitely going through similar situations. I've been going through hell for the past month and it is only going to get worse as I am now filing for divorce. But I can say that each day brings progress. Sure, there are definitely bad days mixed in where the emotions seem too much to handle. But in the end, you are better and farther along today than you were yesterday. Don't forget that.

My motto at the moment is, "All I have is all I need." And it's definitely true. You just need to focus on yourself and the kids because right now that is what is most important. I would do anything for my kids, but I will not let someone step all over me, take advantage of me, and disrespect me and still be okay with her just for the kids' sake. That's not healthy for me or the kids. It's hard, I know first hand, but you just have to have more respect for yourself.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I guess deep down inside I wanted to get a reaction from my love note yesterday.. all I got was a job ad.

I know I need to keep with the NC.. but ....


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Today I'm really sad again. Maybe because of the little contact I had with her.. or feeling of stupidity for pouring out my guts in a love letter.


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## lulubelle

being sad is ok. try to find little things to make you happy. have your favorite lunch. go for a walk. talk with a friend. make a happy list. tonight before you go to bed stretch- it'll help you relax. find joy in little moments.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm actually hoping to get an interview for this job posting she sent me. Right now I work alone at my pizzeria and all this time alone is killing me..

I went back to school from 2006 to 2009 and got my College Diploma in Business Administration Human Resources. Just before I went back to school ( due to an injury..I got retrained) we purchased this restaurant. I lost my opportunity to stay at my internship when the plant closed in the trouble of 2008 and only managed to find one 8 month HR contract.

After than my wife said she wanted to get a new job and was sick of the pizzeria.. so I took it over and have been here ever since.

Now I want out of the business and try something new also. I would put someone in the restaurant to run it while I find a new job.

It is a managers position at Walmart of all places... no lack of people for me to be around there I guess.

I still can't stomach the thought of food. 

Sitting with my friend this morning, I told her I felt dumb for sending the letter.

She said.. listen.. she could have not responded.. or responded angrily and said leave me alone... she didn't do either.. she sent you a job posting so she's at least not mad about it.


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## mma2012

I definitely feel what you are going through. I did everything in my power to make our marriage work. Gave her so much affection, flowers, notes, showed her how much I have changed. But in the end it was too little too late, according to her.

Do you know how stupid I feel knowing that I was working so hard to make this work and here is my wife having an affair? Yea, pretty stupid and embarrassed. But it really just proved that she is not worth the pain and heartache.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

that is the same words she used to me.. " Too little.. Too Late"

She had been dropping hints for months that there was problems.. well I'm not good with hints.. I need to be told..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm dreading her texting about seeing the girls.

By the time she does it it will be two weeks since my kids have seen their mother. I don't really want to see her but have no idea on how we should meet to exchange the children.


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## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> that is the same words she used to me.. " Too little.. Too Late"
> 
> She had been dropping hints for months that there was problems.. well I'm not good with hints.. I need to be told..


i agree. if something is wrong tell me "i'm unhappy/pissed because......" i'm not a mind reader!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She just texted me to see the kids. She asked if she could see them for a few hours before I was done work.

I asked if she wanted to see them with me or alone. She said she preferred alone. 

I told not to come to the restaurant as seeing her would only break my heart cause I miss her terribly.

I then asked if she thought about marriage counseling.. she replied "No"

Now I'm a wreck again...     

I told her she could meet with the kids at the park.


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## lulubelle

ack! you can't tell her your heart is breaking.
tell us, tell your friends, tell a counselor, but don't tell her. you have to bust out your acting chops and pretend you are AWESOME when communicating with her.

ok listen. the next time you see/make contact with her try this. tell her after thinking about things, you're really glad to have this separation. you realized that you haven't been happier either and this time apart will really help you focus on yourself and what you want for your future.

no more sappy. the sappier and more broken you are, the less attractive she will find you. if you want to fix your marriage, you have to fix yourself first.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

... I know....


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What am I doing when I tell her my feelings.... am I losing control of the situation?


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## keko

You're looking weak in her eyes. 

You need to man up and stop whining to her.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What I don't get is that she is avoiding me.. I wasn't there when she left.. now she doesn't want me there with the girls.

Either she is thinking of me.. or trying to spare me the pain..???

What do you guys think?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

keko said:


> You're looking weak in her eyes.
> 
> You need to man up and stop whining to her.


I thought woman like to hear nice things.... 

I didn't think I was whining.. I was just telling her the truth..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The thoughts of what my wife is telling the children while I'm here at work is killing me.... 

This is the first time she has seen them since we left them at camp before she left..


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## keko

Dude she checked out of the marriage and was a coward to not even approach you to announce it. You need to get your act together and get over her.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That was harsh....


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## lulubelle

it's different now that she left. please trust us. most of ur have done the same thing you're doing. "i'll show him/her how much i love them and need them! i'll totally win them back with my honesty and love!"

no, you will make her run in the opposite direction.

right now she wants space to figure out what she wants. a sad heartbroken man is not attractive. a strong confident man is. right now you're acting like you can't live without her, but you can. you don't share any major vital organs. show her that you love and respect her, but don't need her to survive. remember back in high school, or back in the bar days, it was the confident outgoing guys who alway got the girl? be that guy! do you ever remember seeing the sad, broken, insecure, guy getting all the chicks? nope.

when she sees you happy, secure, confident, not needy, you will peak her interest. weight loss/muscle gain, new hair, clothes, attitude. what ever you have to do to turn yourself around.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I guess your right.... just in the denial stage of grief still..

I have done quite a few of the things she said would never get done around the house already...and I know my youngest will be telling her that..

Also my youngest will be telling her all about how her grandma is gonna redecorate her bedroom with new paint and curtains..

That is something she wouldn't see coming miles away.


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## lulubelle

good! that's more like it! when i first started my 180, i was doing it purely to get chad back. if this mindset helps you get started, so be it. eventually, you wil start feeling better about yourself and you will realize these changes are for you, not her.
you might also want to make a list of things you want to do when you don't have the kids. these can be the most difficult times, so make sure you stay busy.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't expect to have much time without the kids.. she will have to work around my schedule.. I'm standing strong on that.

I like that she asked if she could see the kids.. not told me..

She knows she left them behind and I'm in charge of that part.

My friends are telling me I'm crazy for leaving them with her unsupervised as she might take them. I know she has a room with a friend at work and that person does not like children...

I have to believe she is not an evil woman.. just a woman that misses her girls and not her husband..


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## lulubelle

do you have any reason to believe she would take the girls or do anything to hurt you or anything that is not in their best interest?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think so..

There are a few reasons I can figure that she doesn't want me there:

She might be afraid I will beg her to come home

She is guilty about leaving

She just can't face me yet since she was a coward to leave a note and take off..

All of the above


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## DailyGrind

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't think so..
> 
> There are a few reasons I can figure that she doesn't want me there:
> 
> She might be afraid I will beg her to come home
> 
> She is guilty about leaving
> 
> She just can't face me yet since she was a coward to leave a note and take off..
> 
> All of the above


Dude -she is feeling very guilty. She took the cowards way, and now doesn't want to face any consequences. Do NOT show weekness. She needs to doubt her decision...and knowing you are pining for her only gives her strength. Trust us on this. Stay strong...even if you have to fake it. She needs to see strength, not weakness.

Good luck!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Very true..


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## keko

Also start reading these books right away,

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well she only stayed with the kids for 45 minutes :scratchhead:

She took lots of pictures. For her phone or facebook or whatever...

I guess she was surprised at some of the things I got accomplished since she have been gone and that my mom was going to redo the kids rooms..

I didn't ask too much about their talk because it was their special time with mom and I thought that would be rude.

She made some plans with my oldest.. I hope she knows that she will have to ask me first.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well chalk one up for the way to go list.

I actually made the kids some chicken and not KD..

I asked how my oldest ( Sarah ) would like it.. she responded " how mommy makes it.."

I didn't know what to say...

Then she comes back ten minutes later and said she texted her mom and she said BBQ tastes better.

When Sarah found out all I had was charcoal, she wanted it fried in a pan....

Weird night...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My youngest daughter has been weird tonight.

I sat her in my lap and told her... " You know daddy is not leaving you" she said year and gave me a big hug... she really wanted me to rock her tonight.

I think she is pretty worked up by not having mommy here...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

After Lisa spending only 45 minutes with the girls last night... then find out she left the girls to go see a movie with her friends has prompted me to write a letter to my ex. It has been a week since she left. Turns out she has going to beach with friends etc. since she has been gone.

remember that she said she will only pay for half of the car and life insurance, half of the cell phone bill, half of the credit line and visa and nothing else.

*Lisa:

Only seeing the girls for 45 minutes last night was unacceptable being that I gave you 2 hours of time.

I will now be creating a visitation schedule for you to see the girls. If you choose not to follow the schedule you will be unable to see the girls. I do not want random texts asking to see them outside of the set schedule.

Also as of September 1st 2012, I will be removing you from the car insurance policy. I will sign over the car to you as a gift as it is in my name. You can then have the safety check and insurance for the car in your name. 

Also starting the first week of September I will be expecting child support in the amount of $150 per child as school will be resuming and they will need supplies and other things.

Jason
*

I haven't sent this yet.. thought i would run it past you guys first.

She has said that she has not thought about marriage counseling...

I have been soft.. but think I need to play hard ball now.

She only makes $250 a week.... this should wake her up..


----------



## lulubelle

i definitely think a parenting schedule is needed. the kids need a schedule, you need the free time, and she needs to be a mom.
the child support is a little steep. you're asking for more than 1/4 of what she makes. i would lower it to maybe 150-200? i'm assuming you make more than she does. if you were to divorce, you probably wouldn't even get that much.
also i wouldn't threaten to not let her see the kids. legally speaking you can't do this, and it just makes you sound controlling. i would however, stick to these are your days/times and stick to the schedule.
the car thing was a nice touch. being nice by giving her the car, but she has to be responsible for it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

*Lisa:

Only seeing the girls for 45 minutes last night was unacceptable being that I gave you 2 hours of time.

I will now be creating a visitation schedule for you to see the girls. I do not want random texts asking to see them outside of the set schedule.

Also as of September 1st 2012, I will be removing you from the car insurance policy. I will sign over the car to you as a gift as it is in my name. You can then have the safety check and insurance for the car in your name.

Also starting September 1st 2012 I will be expecting child support in the amount of $100 per child per month as school will be resuming and they will need supplies and other things.This amount will be modified as your income increases.

Jason*

Hows that?


----------



## lulubelle

the first line i would change to something like "i was disappointed you chose to only spend 45 minutes with the girls last night when you had the opportunity to spend 2 hours with them. in order for our children to be able to have both of us in their lives consistently, i have created a parenting time schedule."

*be somewhat flexible with this if it conflicts with her work schedule. also, you can't judge what she does during her time as long as it doesn't negatively effect the girls. it infuriates me when my ex gets a babysitter for the boys on his weekends, but that is his time, his choice.


----------



## Conrad

lulubelle said:


> the first line i would change to something like "i was disappointed you chose to only spend 45 minutes with the girls last night when you had the opportunity to spend 2 hours with them. in order for our children to be able to have both of us in their lives consistently, i have created a parenting time schedule."
> 
> *be somewhat flexible with this if it conflicts with her work schedule. also, you can't judge what she does during her time as long as it doesn't negatively effect the girls. it infuriates me when my ex gets a babysitter for the boys on his weekends, but that is his time, his choice.


Much shorter:

"I'm not ok with us operating without a parenting schedule"

Stop with all details and finger pointing.

It leads nowhere.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

*I was disappointed you chose to only spend 45 minutes with the girls last night when you had the opportunity to spend 2 hours with them. In order for our children to be able to have both of us in their lives consistently, I have created a parenting time schedule
I do not want random texts asking to see them outside of the set schedule.

You will see the children every Monday and Wednesday from 5 pm until 7:30 pm. You will see them every other Saturday from 10 am until 8 pm. Every other Sunday from 10 am until 8 pm. We will switch back and forth between Saturday and Sundays every week.

You will see them for 2 Friday evenings a month from 5 pm until 10 pm. This will be the same weeks as your Sunday visits.

Also as of September 1st 2012, I will be removing you from the car insurance policy. I will sign over the car to you as a gift as it is in my name. You can then have the safety check and insurance for the car in your name.

Also starting September 1st 2012 I will be expecting child support in the amount of $100 per child per month as school will be resuming and they will need supplies and other things.This amount will be modified as your income increases.



Jason*

We're getting there...


----------



## lulubelle

Conrad said:


> Much shorter:
> 
> "I'm not ok with us operating without a parenting schedule"
> 
> Stop with all details and finger pointing.
> 
> It leads nowhere.


conrad has a point (he always does. and it's always a good one) 

Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In order for our children to be able to have both of us in their lives consistently, I have created a parenting time schedule.
(add schedule here)

As of September 1st 2012, I will be removing you from the car insurance policy. I will sign over the car to you as a gift as it is in my name. You can then have the safety check and insurance for the car in your name.

*you may want to talk to a lawyer before asking for support. what if she says no? then she is in control, because you can't enforce this.

Also starting September 1st 2012 I will be expecting child support in the amount of $100 per child per month as school will be resuming and they will need supplies and other things.This amount will be modified as your income increases.

 sorry i'm changing my thoughts on some of these points! i'm learning too, and i want you to come off as confident, without allowing her to find any cracks in the letter that she can take controll of or undermine.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

*Lisa

In order for our children to be able to have both of us in their lives consistently, I have created a parenting time schedule.

You will see the children every Monday and Wednesday from 5 pm until 7:30 pm. You will see them every other Saturday from 10 am until 8 pm. Every other Sunday from 10 am until 8 pm. We will switch back and forth between Saturday and Sundays every week.

You will see them for 2 Friday evenings a month from 5 pm until 10 pm. This will be the same weeks as your Sunday visits.

Also as of September 1st 2012, I will be removing you from the car insurance policy. I will sign over the car to you as a gift as it is in my name. You can then have the safety check and insurance for the car in your name.

Also starting September 1st 2012 I will be expecting child support.

Jason*


----------



## lulubelle

i like it, but can i ask why you don't want her to have them for overnights? i think about her living situation, but i can't remember.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The place she stays is with a lady friend from work and their is no room for them to stay..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Some of my friends are saying I should leave the schedule open for discussion. I don't think so. Her leaving wasn't up for discussion..

I am the parent with custody.. I should set the schedule how I see fit.


----------



## lulubelle

is there anywhere else she could go once in awhile with the kids for an overnight like her parents? how do you feel about going to a friends house for a weekend once a month or so to relax and let her stay at the house with the girls?

i'm just thinking long term, you need your time to yourself, and she needs to take responsibility for her kids. i love my boys, but i also love my alone time. it helps me be a better mom.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

she was estranged from her dad.. and her mom and step dad.. she has no where to take them overnight.

She is NOT coming to the house.. that is for sure.


----------



## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Some of my friends are saying I should leave the schedule open for discussion. I don't think so. Her leaving wasn't up for discussion..
> 
> I am the parent with custody.. I should set the schedule how I see fit.


i agree with you. like i said, if it conflicts with her work schedule, then be willing to bend. if it conflicts with her social schedule, tell her to find a babysitter.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That would be awful if she got a babysitter...

OK.. I'm sending it to her work so i know she gets it.. I guess i better start keeping track our our conversations too..and when she visits the girls for court..

I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## lulubelle

fingers crossed, but be prepared for her to retaliate.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now.. I don't care


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Nothing back so far... 

Do I keep track of when i sent e-mails and when she saw the kids for court?


----------



## lulubelle

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Nothing back so far...
> 
> Do I keep track of when i sent e-mails and when she saw the kids for court?


yes. i would keep a file on your computer of emails, visitation, any money you give her/bills she doesn't pay her half of, and money she gives you. i would also keep a record of phone calls and txt messages in this file.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK... I sent the e-mail to all of her know e-mail accounts.. she is either not responding because...:

1. She is busy at work
2. Pissed at me
3. Needs time to digest what I'm saying

I know forcing visitation is not always the best but when she is sitting on the beach on Sunday with her friends when the girls would have loved to be there with her really bites me to the core


----------



## lulubelle

it's probably a little bit of all 3. do not contact her again. let her respond to you, even if it takes days. not even so much as a "did you get my email?" text. ball is in her court. if she doesn't respond by the end of the week, contact a lawyer. does your state have legal separation?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm in Canada so it's a Province..LOL

I will have to check into it..


----------



## sculley

SHe started acting like this when her dad died... because you said she was all about you before that...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Her behavior changed dramatically after her dad died.

Before that she wanted to make love twice a night ( something we haven't done in 10 years), told me she loved me and would never leave and the plans for the future..

Now she wants to be free...

She told her friends she made a life changing decision.


----------



## keko

Did you find if she has a new lover?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She doesn't... just hanging with her friends right now..


----------



## keko

Are you 100% or 99% sure.

Have a look at the Coping with Infidelity section and you'll see alarming similarities to what your wife is displaying. Such as recent increased sex drive, promising to be with you forever, then suddenly leaving you and the kids, spending minimal time with the kids, not wanting to see you, wanting to be free and on and on.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now I'm 99% sure..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now I'm getting pissed off..

My oldest said that Lisa told them that she wished she could have taken them somewhere last night but only had $20 for gas money...

Then she puts on FB that she went to the movies with her girlfriends after she left the girls..

Are you F-ing serious?


----------



## sandc

keko said:


> Are you 100% or 99% sure.
> 
> Have a look at the Coping with Infidelity section and you'll see alarming similarities to what your wife is displaying. Such as recent increased sex drive, promising to be with you forever, then suddenly leaving you and the kids, spending minimal time with the kids, not wanting to see you, wanting to be free and on and on.


Maybe she switched teams. The woman she is living with is the OM uh OW.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No... the girl she is with is certainly not gay


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> That was harsh....


Yes that was. Not even useful. 

And I don't think you were "whining" at all when you were expressing your feelings. You were just stating facts. How is that "whining"? I wish my H would express himself to me the way you are to your wife. I wish he would express himself at all (I'm the walking away spouse here in my scenario). I hear nothing from him as far as what he wants to do to repair our marriage. I have to get him to MC to get him to express himself. Too bad he won't do it for me, unfortunately he needs a counselor to do it. HOPEFULLY he will.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

MY wife so far doesn't want to see a MC.

I still haven't got a response from my letter this morning...


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

sandc said:


> Maybe she switched teams. The woman she is living with is the OM uh OW.


The way I know my wife that wouldn't happen... 

Anyways she wouldn't like being the pitcher.. only the catcher..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It's been a half day.. how long should I let her sit with the note before I send her something else?


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## lulubelle

STOP!!!!! do not send her anything else! you need to stop thinking about it. put a rubber band around your wrist and every time you think about calling/texting/emailing her, snap yourself with the band. i know you're in the initial freak out and obsess phase but the sooner you can move out of this phase, the better. the worst thing you can do is contact her right now. imagine her sitting smuggly thinking "he's going to freak out when i don't respond. i bet before he goes to bed tonight i'll get another message from him!"

prove her wrong.

you need to be strong and NOT contact her. she will have to contact you eventually if she wants to see her kids, and on what she's currently earning, she will also be asking you for money soon. right now YOU are in control, and she probably doesn't like it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. so the letter I wrote shows her my intentions and I have the upper hand now. 

I just need to wait on her move?

If she asked for visitation do I just say that we will be going by the schedule I wrote and nothing else?

Time to be the a$$hole here?


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## lulubelle

don't be an *******, just be assertive. only change visitation if it effects her work schedule. do not go out of your way for her.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Ya.. true...

This is gonna be hard.

I know she is getting in contact with one of her closest friends tonight. Actually the one I called to cry to when i found the note. She thinks my wife snapped after her dad died.

I know she will have an INTERESTING conversation with her. She is older.. much like a mother figure to her and shares the same belief system in spirituality.

She really wants to know what is going on in Lisa's mind right now... that is for sure.


----------



## keko

foreverheartbroken said:


> Yes that was. Not even useful.
> 
> And I don't think you were "whining" at all when you were expressing your feelings. You were just stating facts. How is that "whining"?


Since you're new on this site I'll go easy on you. Simply have a look at few older threads in this section and see how often, if any, a spouse that left came back when the other spouse was "whining" or stating the facts as you say it. There is a reason why nice guys finish last and even a book called "No More Mr Nice Guy".


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Ya.. true...
> 
> This is gonna be hard.
> 
> I know she is getting in contact with one of her closest friends tonight. Actually the one I called *to cry *to when i found the note. She thinks my wife snapped after her dad died.
> 
> I know she will have an INTERESTING conversation with her. She is older.. much like a mother figure to her and shares the same belief system in spirituality.
> 
> She really wants to know what is going on in Lisa's mind right now... that is for sure.


:slap:


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well. she only told her a few days before she left that she was thinking about leaving. Lynda asked her... do you still love him..

She said yes I do still love him..

Then out of the blue she is gone..

Lynda wants some answers...


----------



## keko

Why didn't Lynda tell you about her intentions of leaving before? 

You need to stop involving/talking to these "friends" until your relationship with your wife is back to normal.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It was during the weekend Lisa was away... as soon as she came home she told me she was thinking of leaving.. Lynda didn't have a chance to tell me.

This was the first person I thought of to confide in when I found the letter. She had no choice but to be involved then...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Went shopping with my girls for groceries for the first time ever without my wife... I felt lost.. that sucked. 
My oldest (12) went through the apples like her mother taught her and picked out the good ones... And kept telling the youngest to stop asking for junk food cause we are on a budget... God love my oldest..

It was an empty feeling activity though..kinda lonely without her there..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Sad,
You are. Getting good advice so far.
And Keko is right. Your wife is a walk away wife and that is not easy to deal with.

No more emails or texts to your wife. None. Only if it is about the kids or bills.

Since she wants to be on her own, she needs to pay her share.

You need to see a lawyer. You really should file or legal separation and child support. Your wife needs to feel reality, consequences for her actions.

A woman that walks away from her children is unnatural/broken. She seriously needs counselling. But she has to want to do it.

You cannot force her.

Now sad, she changed her FB status to single. That should set off your alarm bells my man. Because that means in her mind she is no longer married to you.

It would not surprise me if she started dating or is dating or will soon date. That is what Keko was referring to.

She is out of the house and you cannot control her.

But you can legally separate. I believe in Canada that gives you a year before you can D. It also sends your wife a message that you do not approve of her behavior. It alo shows you will not tolerate being her backup plan.

Now buck up. Get rid of that debt. Get in shape. Work hard and love your girls like you are their only parent. Because right now you are.

And if she comes a crying or sends a nasty email. Respond like her, with a posting for a full time job for her!

Hang tough buddy.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks..


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## happyman64

Sad.

No need to thank any of us. We have all been in your shoes one way or another. And we know. You love your wife. But love is not enough to keep a marriage together.

And if your wife respected you she would not have just packed and walked out the door. That is not just a blow to you but your children.

And I do not care how depressed she is. She could have opened up to you and you two could have worked out a plan together. That is what adults do.

She walked out like a coward. 

Has anyone suggested you read " no more mr nice guy". You can download it off the web for free.

Stay strong and remember. You might not have been perfect. No one is. But you are not to blame for her walking out the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

i will get a copy of that to read for sure... good e-read book..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Last week I paid bills from our joint account. She sent me a message to put it back and not to touch HER paycheck to pay for house bills since she does not live the anymore

Looks like she got herself a new bank account as she transferred her paycheck out right away into the other account.

I'm beside myself this morning..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

keko said:


> Since you're new on this site I'll go easy on you. Simply have a look at few older threads in this section and see how often, if any, a spouse that left came back when the other spouse was "whining" or stating the facts as you say it. There is a reason why nice guys finish last and even a book called "No More Mr Nice Guy".


OK, gotcha.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I went a saw a lawyer this morning. He told me to get all of the essential accounts frozen.

Things like my Visa and Credit Line and make my mortgage account deposit only..

He also told me to change the locks on the Pizzeria and house..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

And these are things you're going to do, right? Are you in a mindset now to go forth 100% to protect yourself, your finances, your business, and your girls and screw how she feels or what she wants? Is your Pizzeria still going okay without her involvement?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I called my bank manager today and just waiting for her call. I'm gonna do what he says...he is the professional..

I have been running the pizzeria for the last year and a half. She wanted to do something else so I took it over and she went and got a job. It was almost like she had this planned for a year now..

But hindsight is always 20.20.. I thought she got the job to help us catchup with the bills....


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

Listen to your lawyer.

Protect your assets and your family.

Did you review your visiting schedule and child support with yur lawyer?

Your spouse is a runaway wife. I do not think she is being truthful about all her actions.

But for now protect yourself and the kids.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just talked to her friend Lynda. I guess my wife didn't like the note I sent her yesterday spelling out the visitation. I guess she said it was too "hard handed".

What the heck did she want me to do...

I guess she contradicted herself saying it was over but said other things to make her think it isn't.

Lynda told her that we need to sit down and talk this out together..

Also.. she didn't leave because of someone else. She just left.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I just talked to her friend Lynda. I guess my wife didn't like the note I sent her yesterday spelling out the visitation. I guess she said it was too "hard handed".
> 
> What the heck did she want me to do...
> 
> I guess she contradicted herself saying it was over but said other things to make her think it isn't.
> 
> Lynda told her that we need to sit down and talk this out together..
> 
> Also.. she didn't leave because of someone else. She just left.


No. "Hard Handed" is when you pack your things and walk out on your husband/kids and only leave a note. That is hard handed.

You are just being a responsible, mature adult protecting your children from having the rug pulled out from under your feet again.

And maybe she is telling the truth about no one else. I find it hard to believe but do recognize that some people actually do leave for other reasons.

She owes you those reasons. Most ppeople work out their problems in a marriage with their spouse.

If you are not the issue and she cannot care for her children she really needs to go and speak wtih a psychologist.

Do not take any BS from her.

This is your family and marriage you are fighting for.

And no matter what demand the truth.

Hm64

PS
Listen to your attorney. Start making your wife pay to support the kids at the minimum. And send her some job postings for full time positions. That works both ways my friend.


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## lulubelle

i'm sorry it has come to this. like others said, file for separation and do what you have to so you can take care of yourself and the kids.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

As i am assuming it. She hinted to her friend that she wanted to see how I would react the this situation. That I would take control once everything had been left to one person. For years she handled the books, the tough decisions as i stood by.

She is impressed by my progress. She thought i would crumble, yet I rose up strong and fought back the urges to curl into a ball and give up.

She took my note yesterday as being angry. She loved my love note because it was from the heart. Something I didn't do very often.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

When you were together did she handle most of the decisions and work with the business, house, finance and kids? Was she in control of most things?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

she did everything.. home business.... 

She asked for my help and I always had an excuse..

Stupid on my part. It took my 5 hours just to put together everything on paper that she did in her head. The woman should have been an accountant.


----------



## justonelife

Sad - I'm in no way defending your wife. There is no excuse for walking out on your husband and children with just a note.

That being said...you have admitted that she changed when her dad died. She may be dealing with some powerful things right now and she is not in her right mind. Grief makes people do strange things and she might regret this deeply when she snaps out of it.

Also, you keep saying that she did everything, ran everything in your family and household. She asked you to help and you refused to do so. It sounds like she tried to fix it and you did nothing to help or meet her halfway. Big mistake on your part. On this forum, when one spouse is messing up in a big way, often the advice is to leave them just to "wake them up". Your wife may have done this just to wake you up and it sounds like it worked. I don't excuse her walking out on your daughters at all but it sounds like she almost needed to do this to you in order to make you understand what she has been telling you all along. You need to own up to your part in this.

It might be too little, too late. But the only way you might win her back is to be strong, confident and competent in taking care of yourself and your girls. You need to do that for yourself and for your girls, but also if you have any hope of showing your wife that you can be the husband she wants. Women need a man to be a partner, a protector, strong and able to take care of the family. They don't need another child to take care of. Man up and take care of your little girls. Good luck! I really hope you guys can work this out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You are right.. she said that the Saturday before she left. She said she tried to get me to help but I always had an excuse. She lost hope in it.

That is exactly the plan. 

I lost her trust. The only way to gain that back is through actions.. not words.

She still does loves me.. just didn't like my lack of taking control. 

She always said she likes beer and Nascar... she is a country girl. This one wanted her cowboy to take the reigns.. this cowboy didn't do it.

I know what I have to do now.


----------



## ScottH454

Well I'm back, my wife walked june 1st so I found this forum. People here seemed against R so I left to handle it myself. We don't have kids an she moved out of state. She had called right after an left voice mail askinbg for divorce. Other than that call we had started making progress towards starting over. Seemed to me all the being desperate begging an pleading they say her not to do worked. We got to the pouint of talking alnost everyday for hours. Got to the point I bought her a plane ticket home. A week before she was to come back she had her Reiki/psyhcic instructer tell her we should wait a few more months. Was cool with that, but she also got invited to stay with some friends for what I thought a few days. Well that was two weeks ago, sunday I emailed to tell her she got a jury summons an it came back. Something made her completely flip. After going in a panic I contacted her friend, only then did she email me from a new account telling me she wants to file for divorce. So my point to telling this is when these guys say walk away an don't smother them trying to love them back listen. I didn't an now I got dumped again an starting over. I did what you've been doing an it could only buy a temporary fix.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Point taken.


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## foreverheartbroken

Oops sorry I thought I was in my own thread. lol!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

justonelife said:


> Also, you keep saying that she did everything, ran everything in your family and household. She asked you to help and you refused to do so. It sounds like she tried to fix it and you did nothing to help or meet her halfway. Big mistake on your part. On this forum, when one spouse is messing up in a big way, often the advice is to leave them just to "wake them up". Your wife may have done this just to wake you up and it sounds like it worked. I don't excuse her walking out on your daughters at all but it sounds like she almost needed to do this to you in order to make you understand what she has been telling you all along. You need to own up to your part in this.
> 
> It might be too little, too late. But the only way you might win her back is to be strong, confident and competent in taking care of yourself and your girls. You need to do that for yourself and for your girls, but also if you have any hope of showing your wife that you can be the husband she wants. Women need a man to be a partner, a protector, strong and able to take care of the family. They don't need another child to take care of. Man up and take care of your little girls. Good luck! I really hope you guys can work this out.


This is EXACTLY the problem I'm going through. I feel like your wife feels (from what it sounds like). I feel like I've been taking care of HIM. I won't have kids knowing this about him. I need a partner and a protector and I don't have one. The difference with me here is that I will not leave our home unless I know for sure we are headed for divorce.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I poured out my guts in a letter earlier today...

Lisa:

I want to take a step back from yesterdays note. I promise not to abandon you as I already abandoned you in the past and left you to fend for yourself in keeping us in our house. I will not remove you from the insurance, you need that car to see your children. I will not force you into the work needed to repair that car. My remarks were cold and certainly not something that will help the situation nor straight from the heart.

The sad part was when I came home on the Tuesday you left I had brakes in my hand to fix your car. That was my plan for the night. I realized I had to fix the things that were broken. The one thing I forget to fix was your broken heart. I returned the brake pads.. I could not return the emptiness you felt in your heart.

As you know my emotions are all over the place. I think of you all the time. I close my eyes and picture you standing there, smiling, reaching out for a warm embrace. I can picture us sitting having supper, I gaze in awe of such a beautiful woman, the mother of my children. I can feel you foot against mind in the warm sand of the beach.

I still feel your presence in the house. I can't sleep in our bed as the sheets still smell of you. Amie has taking over your spot in our bed and I know it because she feel your spirit there.

Through this time I have learned what true love is.Love isn't physical, it isn't the need for kisses,for hugs, for touches. It is a point inside of your body that screams to you at the top of it's lungs that this is the woman that makes your heart complete. You fight for her, you correct your issues so that you can be the knight in shining armor that she kissed and said I do on August 22, 1998.

I stood in that spot yesterday that we stood on August 22, 1998. I closed my eyes, I felt the love from our family, the pastor and pictured you walking towards me in that beautiful dress. How I couldn't believe that you were going to be mine, that you were going to be the mother of my children that you were going to be the woman above all others. I am crying thinking about it. The tears of joy, the stupid grin I had. The beginning of the most wonderful years of my life.

I remember how I held your hand as Sarah was born, how I was so proud of the child God had given us. So proud of the life you gave to me and said.. here is your daughter. God really blessed us that day. Then he decided to bless us with another girl. I almost forgot to take pictures as I stared at you in pure love for another special person you created and brought into my life. I feel honoured that you allowed me to become a father of two wonderful girls. Your unconditional love and trust that I would be able to provide a loving home for them is the best gift ever.

I remember your smile, how you believed in me that I could be the perfect father for your children. The glow you had as you slept beside our children in the hospital. How proud I was to be your husband.

You are a very special woman and not one tear I can shed or word I can say can express how much you mean to me.

I have a yearning for a newer life. A new home, and new job.

You have showed me that I can be more than what I have been displaying, more than what I have acheived, more than the path I have been walking. I don't need to accept my current life as the only life I can acheive. With work I can be anything I want to... I just have to try.. and keep trying. I have to be positive, to know that things will work out, that bills will be paid, that things will be alright.

It's not the materialistic things I yearn for. It's the quality of life, for our children, for you.

I want to see you go to school, to earn a degree, to become that person you really want to be. I found many ways we can make it happen. It was under our noses all along. I want to help you be that person that acheives her goals and be the supporter of your dreams like you have done for mine.

To be a husband is not just money, sex and children. It's a total commitment to you, to your beliefs, to your dreams. To be the rock when things go wrong, the be the ballon that helps pull you higher than you ever though you could go.

I tainted our relationship and stood in darkness as you tried to pull me into the light. I fought the thought of change. I fought to let you gently nug me in the right direction.

I'm not fighting anymore. I have applied for new jobs, started working on the house. Trying to make plans on how I would be able to sell it and get a home I'm actually proud of.

I would love it if you were beside me as we both start this new journey. We can go anywhere if we just put our mind to it.

I got your message you were sending on Saturday. I broke your trust. I never accomplished the goals I laid out for you. Be it laziness, be it selfishness, I didn't live up to me word.

To not live up to your word is the worst sin against your family. It causes a lack of trust, a fear that you are not truthful, that you are a liar, that you you don't care , that your not responsible.

It is a let down to all around me. Trust isn't the easiest thing to win back. I will have to show , through my actions, that I can live up to my word, that I can be counted on, that I am a man.

The disppointment in your eyes Saturday burned through me straight to my soul. It showed me that I wasn't being a man, I was being a weak boy. I was along for the ride, not climbing to the front of the line but happy to ride at the back. I allowed you to mother my insecurities. I allowed you to mend my wounds. I allowed you to not be you.

Men stand up for their women, they provide the most deepest needs to their wife. They don't back down from their decisions. They follow them through, they rise to the occassion, they tackle the hard tasks first.

Your expectations of me were left to crumble. I now have a pile of rocks that was once a mountain. A mountain that I could have climb upon and saw deep into my future. Right now I can't see through the rubble. I blinded myself with my own insecurities. I closed the path that were were walking on, I boarded up the dreams we had and hid inside like a little baby.

I have started on the changes i said would happen around the house. I am half way through the backroom roof repair ( with Amies help on the roof), we have purged the furnace room and laundry room.

I have a new Queen size bed coming as well as a new bed for Amie. I will be repainting both Amies and our room to brighten up the house.

I hope some day to win your trust. To show you everything I can be, to be that man you said "I do" to on August 22, 1998. For that it will take work. It will be a hard struggle. Words alone can not fix my wrongs.

I am a man, I will show you.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She wrote back:

Jason

I am having a hard time trying to find words. I am hurting and confused beyond belief. One minute you are telling me that this is how things are going to be and the next minute you are telling me you love me and miss me. To be honest I don't really miss you, emotions are much simpler without you in my life. You talk of trust yet you listen to people like Brett who tell you to be a complete ******* when you know that's not who you truly are. I'm sorry I had to hurt you but I felt and still feel it's the only way I can move on with my life and make it the best it can be. I love my job at TekSavvy. Once Sue stopped harping on me things are truly good. I think part of why I didn't want to go to work before was because I felt like all the work I was doing was for no good reason, I was barely paying bills and you were screwing around letting things continue to slide. I love my children and want them in my life but I feel that for your sake you need them there to give you a reason to go on. I think you need some answers from me and that's part of why you continue to go back in forth in your emotions. I don't care what any one says about me but you, that goes for any of my family or yours. Only we know the truth, honestly I am a bit disappointed that you continue to use your facebook like a diary, you're not going to get the true support you need there. I really think that you need to get some counselling on your own, I know I have issues and I am doing my best to work through them. I understand you are grieving so the reactions I'm seeing from you are not unexpected, you have to understand that I did most of my grieving before I even walked out the door.

I just don't think I can bear to have my heart broken anymore.

I do think for the children's sake we do need to sit down at some point soon and have a meeting, right now I am taking things one day at a time and so should you

Lisa


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I returned:

I agree with you Lisa. I did let my emotions dictate my feeling yesterday. I was upset you only spent 45 minutes with them. I later found out that you only had a limited amount of money and that was the main reason. For that I apologize. Much like me you are strapped for cash.

I will not apologize for telling you how I feel or pouring out my soul to you.

I know you don't want to hurt me. I know you tried your best. I understand that. It hurts but I understand.

The reason i didn't make conversation with you over the last few days before you left was that I have a tendency to say stupid things. I had a feeling you were going to leave and i just didn't want to make it worse by opening my mouth. I read something on the Dr. Phil website to shut up. That's what I did. I was not going to fall at your knees, I was not going to grovel. I did already have a plan to take charge but you were not interesting in it. I thought maybe we could get through this and you would let me take over and show you how I could really be. I made my mind up while you were gone. To open a new chapter and to show you how it would happen. You wanted nothing to do with it.

I am trying each day to put one foot in the other and not follow the path i was headed. It is difficult not having you there in the morning.

I have defended you to the bitter end, many people made you out as the bad guy. I don't believe in that one bit. Your choice was one that was to make me a better man. Only your words touch my heart, I don't care what anyone has to say. If it comes from your lips it's gold.

You need to realize that when a man hits the bottom he can only go up. I have hit the bottom, I have seen the wrongs in my ways, I have seen the hurt i have caused. I am trying to make it better.

My heart is in pieces on the ground. I will be looking in therapy. I need it.

I do not take Bretts angry rants to heart. He would never do the things he says he would do. He is just an angry person. I would never follow any of his suggestions. He can't even make his own marriage work out properly.

Jason


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## happyman64

Sad,
I don't agree with you taking all the blame for the failure of your marriage.

Your wife is saying she does not want to be married to you or be in a family with you.

Follow through with your attorneys actions. Set your wife on a planned visitation schedule and child support payments.

And you get your act together not because your wife left you but because they will make you a better man and father.

I am going to let you in on a little secret. I am not perfect in my wife's eyes. I am not always working or providing for my family at 100% of my potential.

And never once did my wife ever threaten to leave me or go to walk out of our house.

We communicated our feelings, we compensated for each other when one of us was trying but not succeeding.

We never ever considered leaving our children with just one of us to fix ourselves or use them to make a point to the other spouse.

Your wife has issues my friend. You might have been lazy, not listening to her or not working to your potential but she still did not have to leave you or your kids.

The word that describes your wife in my mind is "SELFISH".

Work on you and listen to your lawyer. And stop pouring your heart out to her. It is pushing her farther away. Just work n you and better your life. Hopefully she will wake up Nd get her crap together. If not you will be a better man for the next woman.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## our vision shattered

My anniversary is aug 22 also 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I texted her tonight. I told her I wanted to fix the brakes on her car( there are non left on the rear). I told her I was scared she would get hurt and it would be wrong to not fix them when I'm capable to do it.
She said ok.. I told her I would pay for it. She said she would pick up the parts if I put the money in our joint account. I agreed and will order the parts for her to have on the counter when she gets there.
For this she would have to come to the house though cause that is where my tools are.

I then asked her if I could cook her supper while she was here. She said well see how.things go.

I know I broke a few rules today but I can seriously let her drive with no brakes. That is just wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Sad, you're still doing it very wrong.

She left, why are you offering to fix her brakes? She wants to be single then she needs to face the hardships of being one.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Just cause she left doesn't give me the excuse to let herself get killed because of no brakes. 

I still care about her and her well being.

Also if my children are going to ride in that car I want it safe.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

A friend of mine today said i should write trashy novels. I'm not much of a writer but I guess my two letters to Lisa brought my lady friend to tears.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Just cause she left doesn't give me the excuse to let herself get killed because of no brakes.
> 
> I still care about her and her well being.
> 
> Also if my children are going to ride in that car I want it safe.


She's an adult, can you stop making excuses for her. 

You have to make her face the consequence's of being single if you're hoping to get her back. Otherwise she'll just use you in the process and you'll be wasting months/years hoping she'll come back.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do understand.

Once of the reason she left though was because I wasn't being the man. Being the man means fixing her car if it's broken and caring that she wouldn't get killed.

She doesn't hate me.. she just wants a man to do man things. That is what i want to be.

This might not help but it also means she will not be on the news because of an accident she had with a car that is in my name on my insurance. If she is hurt or killed there won't be a wife to come home.

I'm broken but not heartless.


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## happyman64

Sad,

I am glad you recognize that you are broken.

And fine, fix her breaks.

But if you are making dinner please invite your daughters for a little family time.

That way it wont look like you are invading "space" with an all out invasion.

Sooner or later you will start listening to our advice when you see your wife backpedaling out the door.

HM64


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The kids were gonna be there. They are gonna set the table for her and try to make her feel special. They are excited that she is visiting.

I told her mommy can't stay after supper but while she is here the time is theirs while I fix the car.

We are also putting together anything that she left here in the way of clothes, mail etc. 

She left so quickly she left lots of stuff behind. I don't need a ladies bra or swim suit so it might as well go with her back to her apartment.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I do understand.
> 
> Once of the reason she left though was because I wasn't being the man. Being the man means fixing her car if it's broken and caring that she wouldn't get killed.
> 
> She doesn't hate me.. she just wants a man to do man things. That is what i want to be.
> 
> This might not help but it also means she will not be on the news because of an accident she had with a car that is in my name on my insurance. If she is hurt or killed there won't be a wife to come home.
> 
> I'm broken but not heartless.


Sad, tell me a single man that would help a woman that left her kids and husband, selfishly and cold heartedly?

By the way brighten yourself up a bit, change your username to happywithtwolittlegirls.


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## Shaggy

Sad, I might give you a pass on the brakes.. Maybe. But dude, cooking her dinner... 2x4 comes out on that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know you guys think I'm nuts.. but i'm trying to win my wifes heart back.

Cooking supper is something I rarely did while we were married. It's spontaneous and unexpected.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The other thing I don't understand. She says she doesn't miss me but told her friend she spent all last week crying.

Is she telling me one thing but doing the other to try and save my feelings?


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## foreverheartbroken

I didn't finish reading the last few posts of this thread yet but I have to say, what beautiful letter you wrote. I have tears reading it.


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## cantmove

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know you guys think I'm nuts.. but i'm trying to win my wifes heart back.
> 
> Cooking supper is something I rarely did while we were married. It's spontaneous and unexpected.[/QUO
> 
> I understand what you're thinking, but she knows that you are only doing it now because you're desperate. It makes you look weak and needy. This is not what a man does. As a man, father of two daughters abandoned by this self absorbed woman, your actions should be cutting her off and protecting your children. That would be behavior to be respected.
> 
> I'm sorry if that stings. I wish like hell that I didn't have the experience to know what I'm talking about. I was in your shoes and I didn't listen to everyone here. It was a huge mistake. Please listen to what we say here. None of enjoy saying these things, we've just already lived it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

But doesn't it show a positive change in behavior? Showing that I can be different, that I can do the things I didn't do during the marriage?


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## foreverheartbroken

I totally understand you about fixing her brakes.

One way to have her brakes fixed AND follow along with the advice here is to refuse to have the girls in the car with her. She'll have to get them fixed herself real quick if she wants to pick the girls up and go somewhere. But then that doesn't address the issue with her OWN safety. Tell her, hey you wanted ME man up and do things. Well why don't YOU woman up and as a mother, make your car SAFE for our girls. But, there's the money issue too, and it's cheaper to have you just do them. I hear you about safety concerns, for your girls AND for her.

I'm going against the grain here but if *my *husband would simply do all you're doing... your letter, fixing her brakes, making her dinner, I'd be all over that, I'd be changing MY tune real fast. Yes, I'd be angry because I'd be thinking (and saying) to him: It took me LEAVING YOU to finally get through to you?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The thing was... she didn't say no to dinner, so said we'll see how it goes. It gives her a few hours with the girls, lets her see how I have worked on some of my promises, lets her miss her home.

My goal is to keep my mouth shut on everything except visitation and maybe showing her the changes to the house.

I will not turn this into a grovel fest. 

I'm actually quite nervous.

*"Yes, I'd be angry because I'd be thinking (and saying) to him: It took me LEAVING YOU to finally get through to you? "*

I know she is thinking that for sure...


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The other thing I don't understand. She says she doesn't miss me but told her friend she spent all last week crying.
> 
> Is she telling me one thing but doing the other to try and save my feelings?


Which is why we told you not to involve "friends" until you settle down with your wife. For all you know she could be out having fun and her friends would tell you otherwise.

STOP speaking with others about your marriage. Its none of their business.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm talking to you guys ain't I?


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## cantmove

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm talking to you guys ain't I?


He means people that you are both friends with and you know it. Don't get defensive. We are truly only thinking about you and your girls.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. sorry....


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## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The thing was... she didn't say no to dinner, so said we'll see how it goes. It gives her a few hours with the girls, lets her see how I have worked on some of my promises, lets her miss her home.
> 
> My goal is to keep my mouth shut on everything except visitation and maybe showing her the changes to the house.
> 
> I will not turn this into a grovel fest.
> 
> I'm actually quite nervous.
> 
> *"Yes, I'd be angry because I'd be thinking (and saying) to him: It took me LEAVING YOU to finally get through to you? "*
> 
> I know she is thinking that for sure...


But the key is Sad, Can you keep your mouth shut?

Can you not fall all over her?

Because if you cant you should not have her over for dinner.

Because all you will do is push her away. You need to man up for yourself and not for her.

There is a difference.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I understand that.. this is not just for me.. it's for the girls.

It's been a long time since we had a meal at the table. It would be good for all of us. 

Who knows... this might not even happen.. I might be eating roast all of next week because she chose not to stay for dinner.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My goal for Sunday is to do the right thing... fix her car so she is safe and so she can carry the kids safe.


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## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm talking to you guys ain't I?


Yes, but we're a completely neutral audience. We're not invested in your feelings or friendship, nor hers when we tell you advice or our thoughts. And therefore we're not biased to either side, either.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

very true.

I keep thinking back to her line in her note...

"To be honest I don't really miss you, emotions are much simpler without you in my life. 

That one stings deep


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## foreverheartbroken

"emotions are much simpler without you in my life"

can translate to...

"It's simpler for me to avoid the emotions such as my/our pain and heartache, it's simpler for me to ignore my/our issues, for addressing them will cause me pain and I don't want to deal with it."


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I never thought about that. She is probably trying not to think about me as it would mean she would have to face the reality of what she has done..


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## foreverheartbroken

There's a LOT of reality here that she's turning her back on. Too much for her to take right now.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Do you think that she agreed to come over is a good start or she is just seeing a free way to get her brakes fixed...


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm talking to you guys ain't I?


We're not emotionally involved are we? In other words we can look at it objectively right?



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My goal for Sunday is to do the right thing... fix her car so she is safe and so she can carry the kids safe.


Tell her to have her car serviced by a mechanic before you hand over the kids to her. Problem solved.



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Do you think that she agreed to come over is a good start or she is just seeing a free way to get her brakes fixed...


Uh.. are you not reading our post's?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know she can't afford to her a mechanic fix it and it was something i said I would do this spring but was too lazy to do it.

Now I'm making good on my promise. To build trust you have to make good on your word.


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## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Do you think that she agreed to come over is a good start or she is just seeing a free way to get her brakes fixed...


Both.

She sees the kids so she does not look like a bad mom. Does not change the fact she walked out on her kids....

And she gets her brakes fixed for free.

I would still follow up with an attorney and have visitation and child support setup permanently.

Good luck on Sunday.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Any ideas for supper... I was thinking a roast in the slow cooker but don't know what to put with it.. She loves salad with fruit and veggies chopped up in it so i might do that as a side.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know she can't afford to her a mechanic fix it and it was something i said I would do this spring but was too lazy to do it.


Tough luck. She wanted to live the single life, so she SHOULD face the consequence's of it. 



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Now I'm making good on my promise. To build trust you have to make good on your word.


How about her marriage vows. How she would stay by yourside in good and bad days?


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## jdlash

If your doing dinner too, keep it simple. You can't win her back with dinner. Don't try so hard. It will come across as weak.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You make good points Keko. The thing is you approach is so far from me personality that she knows it was manufactured. She knew the letter I wrote the other day was fabricated from advice from other and not from my heart. 

My tone has never been like that, it's not in to be so direct.

I know i should but it's just not me.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Jdlash..

I was thinking about getting flowers for the table and have the dishes set out ready.

We rarely did that even though she really wished we would. 

I certainly can't expect her to sit on the couch and eat like we used to.


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## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Do you think that she agreed to come over is a good start or she is just seeing a free way to get her brakes fixed...


She still of course loves her kids anyway, I'd have a hard time believing she just doesn't care about them anymore. I would have a hard time believing you won't appear like a "family unit" when she comes over, because all three of you are together there, in the family home. It's going to be emotionally hard for her, I can't imagine how it wouldn't. I can't see how she wouldn't have a conscience.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You make good points Keko. The thing is you approach is so far from me personality that she knows it was manufactured. She knew the letter I wrote the other day was fabricated from advice from other and not from my heart.
> 
> My tone has never been like that, it's not in to be so direct.
> 
> I know i should but it's just not me.


Yes, but things have changed haven't they? Your wife left you and your kids so you need to put on a face, fake it if you have to, of you not accepting her behavior. 

Do you want your daughters to see this as acceptable? Since you will be cooking her a supper and fixing her brakes after she left you and your kids.

Think of the big picture before hoping for a short term gain. Unless you "make" her face the harsh reality she will continue to do as she pleases, as you'll always be her back up plan.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do see that happening... she is a caring woman, just not one that puts it out their for everyone to see.

That might be why she said that " we;ll see how it goes" .. she might not want to stay because I will say something, or the pain of being the family unit again.

I know she loves her girls and wanted them to be with me to be my support. I really would be in worse shape if they weren't here.


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## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You make good points Keko. The thing is you approach is so far from me personality that she knows it was manufactured. She knew the letter I wrote the other day was fabricated from advice from other and not from my heart.
> 
> My tone has never been like that, it's not in to be so direct.
> 
> I know i should but it's just not me.


I wonder that, in your future, if you don't do what's in your heart, you might regret it later. You might view cold harsh actions (not your personality) as not having given it your ALL (being YOU, doing what YOU would do). You want to come away from this saying to yourself, "At least I tried. At least I gave it my ALL, and at least she walks away KNOWING how I feel and what I was willing to do for her." And hopefully it's not a little too late. 

Among our biggest regrets in life are when we didn't give it our all, what we DIDN'T do, if others walked away never knowing ("if only they knew!!"), if you didn't do everything you could. If you did everything you could, you can't blame yourself in the future for not having tried.

One thing that's interesting too, there's a lot of talk on here about 180's. Isn't that what you're doing right now? You want to remember that ARE doing this for YOU too, stepping up and 'being a man' also helps YOU be a good role model for your kids, as well as helps shape you in any future relationships (if your current marriage fails).


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. the tone for many suggestions on here is to be cold, heartless, almost cruel.

I can't be that way.. I do want to say to myself that I tried it all. 

If I fail .. I fail. I know she doesn't see me as a bad man, but a broken man that needs to pick himself up out of the dirt and brush himself off.

To be mean and cold to Lisa would only verify that I can't change, that I will always be looking out for me and never her.

I felt that offering to fix her car shows that I am making due on a broken promise, to make her supper means that she wouldn't always be the one responsible for meals... etc.


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## foreverheartbroken

If I step back and think about it, a cold, heartless, almost cruel reaction might portray a man feeling JUSTIFIED in how he was in the marriage and how dare she do anything to him as a result or how dare she have hurt and anger. How dare she walk out on him, he should have been able to do exactly what he was doing, screw her! He's gonna mess her life up good! Obstinate, lazy and stubborn, and now an a******. Even if she fell out of love with you, how can your reaching out, being a man, stepping up, not pull at her heartstrings if she EVER EVER had a heart or any sensitivity towards her man showing her love in the first place. Just in my humble opinion, she would have to be STONE COLD.


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## justonelife

Sad - I was in a similar situation as your wife. There were lots of other issues with my ex but making me do all of the work in the family was one of the big ones. Here is how I see it:

1. You never lifted a finger in your marriage to help your wife. WEAK

2. She asked for your help and you refused. WEAK

3. She leaves you and you start groveling, sending love letters, making dinner, fixing her car and doing everything you refused to do before. WEAK

She believes this is only because you are scared of losing the good situation you had before and you will go right back to your previous ways as soon as she returns. She will not believe that anything you do right now will last. She has lost all respect for you as a man and trust that you will do what you say.

We aren't telling you to be cold, cruel or heartless but you need to start acting based on her decisions and the message she is sending you. She wants to divorce you. Start acting like it. Be polite in your communications with her but no more groveling. The only way she will have respect for you is if you start having respect for yourself (by manning up and taking care of yourself and your kids) and having respect for her and her decisions (which is to leave you). You are not showing respect for either of you by sending love letters which are too little, too late.

Edited to add: She also mentioned something about facebook. Please do not weep or complain on facebook. That is DEFINITELY not a way to earn her respect. Men do not cry to their friends in a public forum. They see a problem and fix it. End of story.

You cannot love someone that you do not respect. She has lost her feelings of love for you because she lost respect for you as a man. Work on that first. The love will not come back without the respect and trust.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

ouch... but point well taken...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

But at least I will go out knowing she won't get hurt in a car wreck because I neglected the car..


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## foreverheartbroken

And not only that but, never mind your marriage, it can be looked at this way... you're looking out for the safety of _your children's mother_ by ensuring the safety of her car.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is very true.

Whether we are married or not, she will always be that.


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## keko

Tell her to have the brakes done herself. She's an adult therefore knows what is safe and what is not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm feeling really lonely tonight. I am short on temper with the girls. I feel like a loser right now.

I just want things to be back to normal. I wanted to come home and find her car in the driveway and a big hug when I came in the door.

I've been thinking of everything I could have done to make it better and how F-ing lazy I was to not do them.

I just want to cry tonight.


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## foreverheartbroken

I don't want to get your hopes up or anything but there's a good chance she's going through these same "withdrawal" emotions that you are. She needs to learn the hard way what she's losing. She thinks she's "losing" the man she was frustrated with all these years and that's not such a great loss to her. But through time, the mind starts to wander and reflect on all the positive things in a "past" relationship, and the negative things start to get blurry. Maybe that'll happen with her and she'll see that this new grass she's standing in isn't so green after all.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I've been thinking of everything I could have done to make it better and how F-ing lazy I was to not do them.


What made you not do them? Did she ask repetitively through the years about the same things? Did you not really listen to her, and if not why not? Why didn't you do the things to make it better? Maybe I should go back to your introductory post but did she ever mention in the past that she was unhappy with the marriage or you and why? What did you do or say to her back then when she was upset? Or did she keep everything all bottled up inside?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you.. I know she is surrounded by single ladies that are younger than her ( 29.. she is 34). They have never been married and not a lot of people actually like the lady she is staying with. Quite a few of my friends work at the same place my wife works at.

She might be going to the clubs tonight.. I don't know.. she said all you find there are BOYS.. little Boys.. she always hated that.

I do believe in my heart she is hurting. She has to be missing the kids.

It's Friday night.. we would be watching Nascar Qualifying right now and try to predict who we think would win. She would be cheering on her fav driver ( Ryan Newman) and we would be getting ready to watch the truck race together for the evening.

I don't even want to watch the race on Sunday.. that is what we have done every Sunday since 1999. If we went out we would tape it and watch it later or the next morning.

I miss her so much....


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She said she dropped hints... she never said she was unhappy.

I was waiting for finances to get better so I could do the jobs complete, not half assed. I can now sit and pick out times she made hints. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

I guess I got too comfortable, I didn't fight to get things done. I let her down.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I remember her and I talking about how it would suck to have to start over and date again..that was this spring

She said don't worry about it, that will never happen to us..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thank you.. I know she is surrounded by single ladies that are younger than her ( 29.. she is 34). They have never been married and not a lot of people actually like the lady she is staying with. Quite a few of my friends work at the same place my wife works at.
> 
> She might be going to the clubs tonight.. I don't know.. she said all you find there are BOYS.. little Boys.. she always hated that.
> 
> I do believe in my heart she is hurting. She has to be missing the kids.
> 
> It's Friday night.. we would be watching Nascar Qualifying right now and try to predict who we think would win. She would be cheering on her fav driver ( Ryan Newman) and we would be getting ready to watch the truck race together for the evening.
> 
> I don't even want to watch the race on Sunday.. that is what we have done every Sunday since 1999. If we went out we would tape it and watch it later or the next morning.
> 
> I miss her so much....


There's just NO WAY she can watch this now herself without thinking of you! Not that I can claim I know what a person is thinking but man, since 1999... 

There are interests just like that that my H and I share, and even if I might be the one who's considering divorce (I feel a lot in common with your W), there are interests and places that I just can't partake anymore or go without thinking of him and feeling so sad and heartbroken. I can't see how she wouldn't be feeling that too.

My heart does go out to you.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We had lots of things in common that way. This is really sad. 

I want to cry but there is nothing left, I think I'm emptied from the other letter I wrote.

It's like a tight knot at the top of my stomach. It feels like my very soul is trying to leap out and fall to the floor.

I'm feeling almost as bad right now as when I found the letter. At that time I hadn't cried for years. The cry I had felt like it came all the way from my toes out through my mouth. It was deep, it was the actual sound of a heart breaking.

The guys think I should be manning up, but right now I feel like a broken down pathetic boy.


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## foreverheartbroken

If you have a heart that's breaking, that's man enough. You can't just force down emotions or ignore them and just be a robot. A man isn't a robot.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It seems a lot of the men on here have a hard handed approach and are either programmed to not think with their heart or are so jaded they can only lead with the left hook.

I'm broken, barely able to make it through the day, sleeping on the couch with the TV on 'cause I only cry when I'm in our bed.

Maybe some people can be mean and not have a heart. I can't be like that. 

I can admit my heart is torn, many men can't and I think that gets them in worst trouble than my situation.


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## happyman64

Not true. Many hearts are broken and that might tend to a heavier hand when dealing with issues like infidelity.

You can cry tonight after your kids go to bed.

Then get up tomorrow, clean the house, complete one of those tasks and love your girls.

You have been abandoned. 

Work on you and your family. Do it to better you and your family.

There is no guarantee your wife will return to the family. So do not do it for her but o better yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well I will be busy tomorrow.. I have to roof the back part of my house..  That should keep my mind off of her tomorrow..

But then Sunday comes.

Someone told me yesterday.. " it's not over until your served, so don't stop fighting for her until that day comes"


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## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It seems a lot of the men on here have a hard handed approach and are either programmed to not think with their heart or are so jaded they can only lead with the left hook.
> 
> I'm broken, barely able to make it through the day, sleeping on the couch with the TV on 'cause I only cry when I'm in our bed.
> 
> Maybe some people can be mean and not have a heart. I can't be like that.
> 
> I can admit my heart is torn, many men can't and I think that gets them in worst trouble than my situation.


I have to agree with that. A man expressing his emotions to me really tugs at my heart. It breaks down my walls. My H is showing no emotion other than hanging out and acting like we're the same happy couple. That isn't working for us, not with our problems. It's only reminding me of the way he's always been, non-responsive to me and I just can't work like that. But I'm working on me now, and he's welcome to come around when he's ready, if I'm still here.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well this morning I ordered the parts for her car and transfered the money for her to pay for them.

She said she was sick ( something was going around at work) and can't pick them up until 5pm. ( who knows.. maybe she is hung over).

I told that would be fine and I hope she feels better..

Her text back : K


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## keko

How is being a nice guy working out for you?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

how would being an a$$ made it any different. She's sick and I would love to take care of her right now.


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## keko

Nobody told you to be an a$$. Just to look at the current status of relationship realistically.


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## happyman64

Sad,
Keko is right. But fix her brakes, make her dinn ER if she shows up.

And do not think about the "K" too much.

I am married 20 years and get the K most of the time.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I broke another rule...

I creeped her Facebook using my daughters account. 

Looks like she is having a good time but also she had " Confused" in a couple of times.

The big thing was just after she left she posted.. " just because people are married for a long time doesn't mean they have to stay married.. sometimes it just doesn't work"

That one stung..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She just called me on the phone. She was getting the parts for the car. It didn't even sound like her.. she was direct, to the point, and then goodbye..

I'm a fricking mess and don't know how to get out of it.

I finished one of the other jobs I said I would do in the spring, I roofed the back of the house. It really needed it. Even though I was busy I couldn't keep my mind off of her.

I did manage to have a 2 hour nap that was needed.. I rarely sleep 2 hours at one time so it was nice for a change.


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## happyman64

Sad
Stop looking at FB.
Look at yourself in the mirror.
follow through with the attorney regarding child support and visitation.

Your wife cannot even support herself. She is in la la land.

Work on you.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I looked in the mirror.. I saw a tired broken man.

Since she has been gone I have lost 20 lbs and look different in my eyes. 

I wonder who will love a man like me.

I know I'm feeling sorry for myself, but boy I hurt today.


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## DavidWYoung

I agree with the other poster. How is this WORKING for you? I am not trying to be a bit/h but does your way work?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No .. it certainly isn't.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So what should I do after I fix the brakes and feed her. Just go NC. She wants to discuss visitation etc.

When do i ask about the filing papers? Do I wait until she brings it up?


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## keko

Regarding Child custody and separation papers you're still too emotional so avoid having a face to face with her. Tell her to either email or send you a text. 

Since you two have kids you can never go NC with, you'll need to do 180(its in my sig). Once again the 180 might sound like being an a$$ but its not. 

You may want to consult a lawyer before having a chat with her. Learn as much as you can regarding your province laws and how much days you want, how much support you want, etc. This way you'll show her you're ready to move on unless she gets her act together and comes back home.


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## foreverheartbroken

Maybe someone here can answer this, when can you start demanding child support?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was thinking that..

Basically we will have our last "family" supper tomorrow and I will only answer her texts to seeing the children. I just have to do this for my own sanity.

After she bought the parts she texted back the amount... I didn't send anything back. I know how much she hates having her texts not answered. Maybe this can be my game... respond only if absolutely needed.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm hoping to get some sort of child support before September.. the children have to get school supplies.. I don't know when to ask..

Now.. if she buys clothes or school supplies.. does that come off the amount she has to pay me?


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## 06Daddio08

foreverheartbroken said:


> Maybe someone here can answer this, when can you start demanding child support?


I started giving her child support once she started taking the kids for her 1 week rotation.

In check form, in the memo I wrote "*month* Child Support"

What is the parenting schedule with the kids?

Can you look on your states website and see what it should be set at?


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## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm hoping to get some sort of child support before September.. the children have to get school supplies.. I don't know when to ask..
> 
> Now.. if she buys clothes or school supplies.. does that come off the amount she has to pay me?


Do lawyers give free consults where you are?

You could make a short list of questions and ask them in the 10 or so minutes they give you.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had a short conversation with a lawyer and told me to make sure all of my assets are protected. 

No money sits in our joint account now, I have my own account and so does she. She transfers her money as soon as it goes in the bank ( she must get up at 3 am to do it ) and I move my disability as soon as I get it... (I get that even though I own my own business as it was from a former job)...

I added the phone recorder and already put it to use today when she called about the car parts.

Should I be taking screen captures off my phone just in case this stuff gets bad.

I created a separate folder in my hotmail for our correspondence. I have the date of our separation written down, and the day and time she spent with the children.

I still have the note she left me..

Should all of this go into a file just in case we fight in court?


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## foreverheartbroken

Oh she will hate the no response thing! Keep doing that.

YES!! Document and save EVERYTHING, notes, texts, everything. Even screenshots from FB might be useful in court.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I had a short conversation with a lawyer and told me to make sure all of my assets are protected.
> 
> No money sits in our joint account now, I have my own account and so does she. She transfers her money as soon as it goes in the bank ( she must get up at 3 am to do it ) and I move my disability as soon as I get it... (I get that even though I own my own business as it was from a former job)...
> 
> I added the phone recorder and already put it to use today when she called about the car parts.
> 
> Should I be taking screen captures off my phone just in case this stuff gets bad.
> 
> I created a separate folder in my hotmail for our correspondence. I have the date of our separation written down, and the day and time she spent with the children.
> 
> I still have the note she left me..
> 
> Should all of this go into a file just in case we fight in court?


Yes, keep a journal of anything and everything. When/if the time comes your lawyer will go through them and make most use of them.

Aside from phone recorder buy a digital voice recorder and keep it on you when she's around. I'm not sure how the laws are up there but in US a woman can get her husband arrested with just her claims. 

Can you transfer you disability to cash into another account, a personal one that is?

Is she ever late on transferring her money or 3am sharp each and every time?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm waiting for the paperwork to come in for it to get transferred to another account.

I also assume she will be getting her pay changed to her new account.

The only common account is our mortgage account. I will just put money in that account the morning of mortgage coming out.


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## keko

Can you change the mortgage account as well? You don't want the mortgage money to disappear into a caribbean vacation.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was thinking about that... when I see the bank manager I'll get that the mortgage comes out of my new account..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Some questions about tomorrow. 

When she asked to when to come over do I wait a bit to before answering so that she doesn't think I'm waiting patiently for her.. And just be direct with a time..

I don't know if I want to discuss anything with her tomorrow. Maybe just fix the car, let her visit the kids, feed her, give her the mail that came to the house and say goodbye?

I'm too emotional.... so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and fix her car.

I'm thinking about a roast, veggies and potatoes for supper...


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Some questions about tomorrow.
> 
> When she asked to when to come over do I wait a bit to before answering so that she doesn't think I'm waiting patiently for her.. And just be direct with a time..
> 
> *Correct. Try not to sound needy or impatient. Act like her leaving hasn't effected you at all.*
> 
> I don't know if I want to discuss anything with her tomorrow. Maybe just fix the car, let her visit the kids, feed her, give her the mail that came to the house and say goodbye?
> 
> *What mail? You didn't receive any mail of hers. *
> 
> I'm too emotional.... so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and fix her car.
> 
> I'm thinking about a roast, veggies and potatoes for supper...
> 
> *Don't beat yourself trying to make something tasty. Preferably do something fast and easy. Plan for her to leave right after finishing, because you have to go somewhere with the kids.*


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Good points.... 

My youngest sent her an e-mail ( since she doesn't have a phone to text her) and told her how much she missed her..

It must be hard for a woman to be away from her kids.. but she choose this.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... spent the evening with my youngest at walmart. I bought some sandy blonde Hair dye to cover up the grey (which I think doubled since she left) I let my daughter pick the color. 

Instead of change for her, it was change for me


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well. today is the day. She is coming over ( still hasn't asked me what time) .

I'm feeling stupid for doing this now, but the kids are really looking forward to it so I have to keep a game face on.

I know I'm gonna hurt tonight... and I bet she will be too after we have our last meal as a family.

This is gonna suck.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It's 11:20 and she still hasn't messaged for a time to come over..

Do I just leave it be and have her text me for the time or do I get a hold of her?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She just messaged me saying she is on her way.. I wanted to set the time.. grrrrrrr

I guess we are having an early supper...


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## MyselfAgain

Annoying. Tonight may be tough, but remember, after this it will get better and better over time. We will help you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

this is GONNA SUCK

I didn't respond to her text... it's tough but I didn't


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## sisters359

It is just so rare for a woman to abandon her kids. The *only* people where I know the full story all involve a woman who was sexually abused at some point in her past. It is a very small sample, just a few people, but the pattern you describe is consistent in those few cases, actually rather strangely so.

Encourage her to explore the past and figure out if she might have been abused--she may not remember it, of course. But at the same time, do what you can to make your situation right for you and your daughters.

Remember that they need to see/hear from their mom, and they will also need counseling to deal with what is, essentially--from their point of view--maternal abandonment. They will have serious issues in the future if you do not address this now. It does not mean you are insufficient as a parent; it means that a key relationship in their lives was broken. The greatest parent in the world cannot overcome that--it needs to be dealt with. When kids lose a parent to death, they still have abandonment issues, which is one of the things deal with in grief therapy. This situation is similar (any time a parent, male or female, leaves their world suddenly and with little/no contact, it will be experienced as abandonment). God bless.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I fixed her car and we had a really nice sit down supper. She thanked me for the supper and fixing the car. I didn't say anything.. I let the kids talk about their stuff.. it was really their time.

She apologized for her tone yesterday as she was still feeling very sick. She sounded pretty genuine.

She asked to take the kids for a weekend in a few weeks and I agreed. 

We didn't say too much to each other... really what is there to say.

As she walked down the road for a walk with the kids I started packing her stuff she still had here in the car.

Right now I feel numb but at least I know the car is safe.. mostly if she is gonna take the kids in a few weeks. 

I almost cried outside working on her car but held it in.

I'm dying inside right now. the pain is unbearable . I tried not to make any eye contact with her... and she did the same.

I don't know what she is thinking but I am happy we had one more meal together, properly, at a table.


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## happyman64

Sad my man.

I truly feel for you. I really do. But if you cannot see that your wife is walking away from not only you, but your marriage and family then you cannot begin to help yourself.

Go see the attorney. File for separation officially. Force your wife to grow up by getting a full time job, pay child support.

You really have no other choice. Stop talking to her because you my man are getting nothing back from her but crickets.

Then focus on you and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls




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## happyman64

Just work on you being happy. It will not happen over night.

But you need to decide what is bet for you and your girls, but that cannot include your wife.

She no longer wants to e part of that picture. So make a stand.

And work on your happiness without her. She will take notice. And you will end up in a better place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She was on the phone when she was here. I heard her say she was in a better place now and much happier.

That is code for I have checked out.. see ya.. at least that's how i see it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. she left. She thanked me for supper and walked out. I didn't say anything about us or anything. I just coyldnt or didn't want to bring it up.
She was saying how she needed to get home and finish some things there so had to go.
The girls had a good visit. They laughed and played around. I sat quietly watching the NASCAR race. 
I want to cry now..

Was it good for me to keep my mouth shut today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Yes. You did good.

And she is in a better place. Living alone with no responsibilities is a great life.

You have two choices Sad.

You can live this way or decide to better you and your children's lives by moving forward.

The key is to do what will make you happy.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She's not really alone.. she is surrounded by younger, single, girls.

I guess she told the kids she wants to see them on Tuesday.. funny, she didn't tell any of that to me..


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She's not really alone.. she is surrounded by *younger, single, girls*..


I'm sure you know what this leads to if it hasn't already.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She's not really alone.. she is surrounded by younger, single, girls.
> 
> I guess she told the kids she wants to see them on Tuesday.. funny, she didn't tell any of that to me..


Sad,

Sorry you misunderstood my sarcasm. I should have been clearer for you.

She is living alone because she does not want to live with you and your girls.

She wants to be single again. So your post about her being surrounded by single girls is apropos!!!

Please wakeup and smell the coffee.

Your wife needs a dose of reality and responsibility.

Start going on some evening job interviews and drop off the kids at her door step.

And give her 5 minutes notice........

She needs a taste of her own medicine.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Ok.. I guess she must have read her mail. 

We haven't got our taxes done this year because she had tax debt that I had been paying on until she left. In Canada you get a government check to help support your children every month. If we don't get our taxes done then I will lose that benefit.

She texted me with this info right now.. How long do you take to respond to texts even if it's for financial things?


----------



## keko

Give it an hour or two, even then respond with short/simple answers.

Have you consulted an accountant to get the taxes done or will you do it yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have an account that does it because we are partners in our business.

I was thinking of "K" just like she does to me.. LOL


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have an account that does it because we are partners in our business.
> 
> I was thinking of "K" just like she does to me.. LOL


LOL!

I think I'm done trying to figure her out, and be asking questions about what she was like before she left, trying to look for clues from you what could be the matter with her.

This is so heartbreaking to read. I can't understand your wife AT.ALL. Of course you can't either. I can't understand where her heart went. In my opinion she has no heart and I'm disgusted. If this was such a switch where she was loving, and acting like a wife and mother all the way up until last Tuesday I'm disgusted. If she exhausted herself trying to get through to you for a number of years as far as what was going wrong, well maybe not so much disgusted, but disappointed that she handled her farewell this way. 

At least you got the car fixed. And I guess you couldn't have really talked with the girls there. 

K, I'd get her name off as much as you possibly can and start protecting yourself and your daughters. Start as soon as possible demanding child support. She needs to grow up.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do agree. So far she doesn't want any part of the business. Just wants her name off of it for tax reasons. 

I will have to talk to my book keeper about that one but we only became partners in the company last Nov to try and split the tax burden. 

I found it interested in how she did not want to make eye contact. Guilt i think.

One thing I did at supper was pour two glasses of wine. I handed her one, and clanged her glass with mine. Basically it was toast to our final supper as a family. I didn't say it though. She was taken back.. said uh...ok and took a sip.

I didn't go out to see her off. I let the kids do it. She said thanks for supper, I said your welcome and that was the last word I said.

I think I handled it very well for a guy that wanted to fall at her knees crying asking her to stay.

She was also taken after her walk with the girls that I told her" your welcome to stay until the end of the race".... she said ok.. and sat at the computer for the next 2 hours with the girls ( which was nice for them). She didn't watch the race as she said she had it recording at home.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She didn't watch the race as she said she had it recording at home.


That's awful. I guess life goes for her huh? 

I wonder if you could keep her name on the business so that she would have to be equally responsible for the taxes? 

You did very well. You did NOT come off as pathetic, and I hope she feels so stupid coming to the marital home with the kids and husband and dinner and everything. No matter how OUT of love I felt towards my STBXH I would feel just AWFUL. I just can't understand it. It makes ME want to cry and I don't even know you people!


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## keko

Talk to your lawyer and accountant on how to share as much debt as you can with her. Make she gets the most possible amount of marital debt she can.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

All of my answers today were short answers.. I think the only full sentence I said was " tell Mommy about camp " and " Sarah and Amie please clean the table so you can have more time with Mommy"

I'm fighting not responding to her text. I do know she hates not getting responses.. I haven't responded to any of her texts since Friday.

I had a talk with my oldest tonight. I told her that I think I need a night out with my friends. She said it would be a good idea. She is really bright for a 12 year old. I told her there is no sense in me sitting around feeling like crap.. She agreed.

She said " Daddy I will watch Amie while you go out".. god she is precious.


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## keko

You can try sending her copies of bills that you want her to pay.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has done that to me already... she forwarded the copy of the internet bill to me that normally gets sent to her.


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## happyman64

Sad
Just be careful what you tell your twelve year old. You do not want your wife using anything against you in any way. Your oldest is only twelve years old.

As smart as she is she must very sad about the situation as well.

Keep all conversation with your strictly business and brief. Yes. No. K. 

Do not engage her and work on detaching from her. And get an attorney to formalize a separation so your wife has some consequences.

Do not be a doormat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had a heart to heart with my 12 year old. I told her if she needs to cry that she can cry. The nice thing these days is that she can send her a text or e-mail. When my parents split 30 years ago I didn't see my mom for 8 months after she left.. zero contact and it scarred me really bad and sent me down the road of booze and drugs until I was about 16.

Then something snapped and I came out of it. Lots of kids down come out of it.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

I think you did really well today. She doesn't deserve your groveling at her feet, no way. 

The sooner you can start with an attorney in getting separation papers or whatever paperwork to get started the better.

Don't reply to her text at all. Try to have as much control over finances as possible to avoid as little texting as possible. Texting is so easy for her, she'll go nuts getting no reply. 

I don't know if I'd make it super easy for her to see the kids either. Set up a strict schedule and tell her you require a set number of days in advance notice.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I didn't like that she discussed the next visit with the kids but didn't tell me..

I sure hope she does think she can just text from work and say she is on the way out to get the kids.. I will stop that pretty quick.

The problem with having the government cheque stopped is that it will effect me.. not her.. and that would suck...


----------



## happyman64

And that is why we all agree you need to follow up with an attorney to formalize a separation agreement.

She is now just a guest. Treat her like one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Have you changed the locks? It'll prevent her from going in when you're away.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have thought about that.. but after today there is nothing she wants to take. She is living with a friend that has everything so she doesn't need to take anything from the house. Hell she even left her lap top here cause she know the business stuff is on it. She could have burned a disc and took it... but she didn't

I think she wants very little from this life to take to her new life.


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## keko

No, it's not about limiting her ability to take out items rather show her you've moved on and she no longer is welcome in the house.

You don't even have to tell her, just give the new keys to your daughter and the message will go to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Last night's sleep sucked. 3 hours straight then on an off all night.

I'm finally getting to realize that she has just checked out and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.

That sucks... 

She looked so beautiful yesterday.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

I agree about changing the locks. 

At least you did sleep at all. 


Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She looked so beautiful yesterday.


 




Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm finally getting to realize that she has just checked out and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.


You CAN do something about it, you work on YOU. For now, do whatever you can to distract yourself and keep busy (not to say you should ignore your pain either, don't hold back from your tears), just don't wallow in your pain, don't let your mind wander into just this helpless agonizing state. Be sad, but don't let it carry you away. Have a BIG positive presence in your daughter's lives, try as best you can to be happy and smiling around them. The more positive you are, the less unsettled and more secure they will feel.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

On my way to work I just felt despair. That even though there are million of people in this world, just one heart added to mine makes it complete.

I feel like crying but when I sit down to do it all my eyes do is water.

I really think I need a good cry. 

I'm getting to realize part of this is loneliness. Even with the girls there I feel very alone.

I still haven't responded to her text last night. I presume she knows how I'm feeling and was just leaving me to grieve and leaving me alone.

Today sucks.. but I have to work to provide for my girls and that's why I still get up every morning.

I just wished i was in a job that surrounded me with people all day instead of being alone in this pizzeria thinking all day.


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## happyman64

> I just wished i was in a job that surrounded me with people all day instead of being alone in this pizzeria thinking all day.


Selfish and checked out is all you need to know. 

Screw how beautiful she looked yesterday. 

SHe does not want to be married or a mother. How wonderful for you (notice the sarcasm now???).

Focus on what I highlighted today. Find a new job and either rent out or sell the pizza place. You are sick of being alone all day and it makes you miserable.

So that is your next step. Finding a new job. 

Step 1 was to go see an attorney. Did you do this yet???

Stay focused and if you want to think of women focus on your 2 girls.....

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The attorney won't be in until Wed..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

One thing I did notice yesterday was that she got a cold sore.... she only gets those when she is REALLy stressed out. It was like clock work. She got stressed, she got a cold sore. 

I think visiting was really bothering her yesterday. I hope it did.. cause it for uncomfortable for me too..


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## foreverheartbroken

The girls are very much a part of your life, they're going nowhere. They will be with you forever. It's going to be so hard during these upcoming weeks, months, maybe years, and you feel loneliness in love even when you're in your daughters' presence but don't forget that this is a precious time together for you and your girls, they are only this age once. They're not just children, they are your daughters and they are with you for life. They're very vulnerable right now too. If you concentrate on your time together with them, even if you're forcing yourself to really focus on their activities at the moment, one day you'll look back on these times with your girls. In your future, your heartbreak will be overshadowed by the memories you hold in your heart with your daughters that you create today. Their life is precious and YOUR life is precious, they are a piece of your heart too. Build memories with them, distracting yourself from your heartbreak may help, just immerse yourself in their activities. Get them involved in cooking a dinner with you, maybe little projects here and there, play some games, listen to them laugh, remember their smiles.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> One thing I did notice yesterday was that she got a cold sore.... she only gets those when she is REALLy stressed out. It was like clock work. She got stressed, she got a cold sore.
> 
> I think visiting was really bothering her yesterday. I hope it did.. cause it for uncomfortable for me too..


Oh... there ya go!! That's a tell-tale sign.

She would have to be a machine for yesterday not to have bothered her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now I know I'm being selfish... thinking about myself and wallowing in my own sadness.

It has only been two week and I just can't think of anything else.

I cuddled with my oldest last night. She said most of her friends are from broken homes. That made me really sad.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Right now I know I'm being selfish... thinking about myself and wallowing in my own sadness.
> 
> It has only been two week and I just can't think of anything else.
> 
> I cuddled with my oldest last night. She said most of her friends are from broken homes. That made me really sad.


You should have told your daughter this " I love you and I love your Mother. But I promise you that the next woman I bring into our lives will have high self esteem, high family values and know who the hell she is in her own head. That I promise you!!"

And start thinking that way in your own head.

Say this "I deserve better"!

Now make the positive changes in your life to make it happen. One day at a time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now I feel like i don't deserve anything.. I need that light switch to go on to get me to think that I deserve better. Right now the bulb is blown out.


----------



## happyman64

Not blown out. You will recover and start to feel stronger in time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sure hope so..

Right now I'm in serious need of a decent nights sleep. Now I can't see my doctor until August 14...he is on vacation.


----------



## donkler

All of this in two weeks?

Early days my friend, took me more than 6 months of seperation and false reconciliation to do what Keko and other guys are suggesting.

Persoanlly I snapped and had to concentrate on myself for my own sanity.

Concentrate on you and your girls.

Have you read the "Nice Guy" material yet?? Opened my eyes I can tell ya.


----------



## happyman64

Go get some prescription Benadryl and you should sleep like a baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep.. all of this in two weeks.

I just had a friend come in that is friends with both of us on FB. While my posts get lots of replies, hers get ZERO.

He says that says a lot of how our friends approve of her behavior. Actually made me feel a little better.

He doesn't think that i used my FB as a diary, he doesn't know where she would get that from.


----------



## happyman64

She gets the FB diary rant because she fears the truth.

She fears anyone knowing she left her husband and her children.

Just think how that looks to everyone.

And just think about what you do not know about yet.

Work on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm in shock.... someone asked me if my wife has become gay. 

The reason is that a good friend of hers left her husband a few years ago and embraced the gay lifestyle. She has a girlfriend.

My wife asked me if she could take the girls to a pride family day with her as she would have her daughter there and my wife would like to take our girls.

My wife did say that when she was a teen she wondered about her sexuality only because she could never find a man to date. She always said she was straight and the thought of being gay was repulsive.

I was just caught off guard by the comment today.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have started looking for a new job. I can't sit here anymore. I am a people person and need to be around people.

I have someone that can run this place while I'm doing something else. The problem is finding the job. I have training in Human Resources but have years of management on top of that from running this as well as other jobs.

Guess it's time to start networking again...Not to mention it would be good to dress up nice.

BTW.. on Saturday night I took my youngest daughter with me to walmart. She picked out some hair dye fro me so I wouldn't look so grey for when mommy visited. 

Letting an 8 year old pick your hair color was interesting. She picked sandy blonde because it would go with my thinning top.. LOL


----------



## foreverheartbroken

What about the woman she's living with, is she gay? 

Now that that person made a suggestion about your wife coming out, is there anything in hindsight besides the pride parade and she thoughts of her sexuality when she was a teen?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Is your pizzeria just not that busy at all with customers coming in? 

That's great that you have a manager there, while you look for another job.

Sounds like you do have quite a few skills to put to a resume. A new job would be a life change you need too.

That's cute about your daughter picking out your haircolor lol! A special bonding moment lol!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The lady she lives with a straight. 

I'm 99% sure she hasn't switched teams. 

My wife read tarot cards and usually does a party for ( lets call her Y) her friends every couple months. I was there for the last party. Y's friends aren't all gay. She just loves spending time with Y and her girlfriend as they just hang out and stuff.


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## happyman64

Sad

Remember what I posted.



> And just think about what you do not know about yet.


Who knows what her issue/issues really are. But I highly doubt they all have to do with you.

Just focus on you and your kids.

Keep the discussions with your wife about $$$ or the kids.

The less conversation you have with her right now is best for both of you.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Oh ok, I see. I was just wondering because I HAVE seen two marriages among my friends and acquaintances break apart because one joined the other team. In both situations it was the wife who left because she became gay.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know... nor do i want to know right now.

Since we are separated.. is it still considered cheating if she does find someone else?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Plus it's neither here nor there (whether she decided to go up to bat for the other team). Whether she finds a relationship with a man or a woman, that doesn't have anything to do with you (to be taken personally, that is), it has to do with her.

Are you wondering about whether to call it "cheating" if she finds someone else before the actual divorce for the purposes of a possible fight (custody battle) in court? If not, again that's neither here nor there because you're separated. 

Whether she left and was seeing no one, or she left and started seeing someone, what would be the difference? She's still stressed and she has her own issues. Besides, a new relationship, I would think, would be doomed right from the start, considering where she's at. She's not in a very comfortable position right now. I'm sure she wants to seem all cool and collected and knowing what she wants on the outside, but I highly doubt she's feeling all that collected on the inside.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't know... nor do i want to know right now.
> 
> Since we are separated.. is it still considered cheating if she does find someone else?


On paper are you married or no?

Just to warn you, start preparing yourself for the day you see her with someone else. It'll hurt you deep down but at that point it'll be the final closure you'll be needing.


----------



## happyman64

foreverheartbroken said:


> Oh ok, I see. I was just wondering because I HAVE seen two marriages among my friends and acquaintances break apart because one joined the other team. In both situations it was the wife who left because she became gay.


Forever

Switching teams does not make them gay. I call that BiSexual.

They might be leading/living a Gay or Same Sex lifestyle.

And when I hear about a heterosexual spouse leaving a marriage for a same sex union what I really think to myself is that is the ultimate display of selfishness.

But that is my personal opinion.

HM64


----------



## foreverheartbroken

happyman64 said:


> Forever
> 
> Switching teams does not make them gay. I call that BiSexual.
> 
> They might be leading/living a Gay or Same Sex lifestyle.
> 
> And when I hear about a heterosexual spouse leaving a marriage for a same sex union what I really think to myself is that is the ultimate display of selfishness.
> 
> But that is my personal opinion.
> 
> HM64


Good point!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We are married on paper.

I guess in the eyes of the court it makes no difference if she has someone else in her life.

I don't know how someone could go from being married with one person to jumping into a marriage life arrangement with another person. It would seem quite awkward


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. it's been tough but I tried find other things to do to keep my mind off of her.

One thing was the 1000 plus questions on OK Cupid... seriously.. WTF.. it took me 3 hours and it still has more questions.

I'm not looking to date but the questions they asked went from interesting, to creepy, to perverted and many other things. Very in-depth

Tonight my youngest is driving me nuts and I sure could have use another parent to help with it tonight. GRRRR


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> We are married on paper.
> 
> I guess in the eyes of the court it makes no difference if she has someone else in her life.
> 
> I don't know how someone could go from being married with one person to jumping into a marriage life arrangement with another person. It would seem quite awkward


Sad please explain what you meant about jumping into another arrangement with another person.

Did you learn something new about your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No I don't know if there is someone else... I assuming there isn't.

I was just thinking that the courts probably don't care if she is in a new relationship during separation before our marriage has ended. They don't look at it as adultery ... do they?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm feeling pretty good tonight ( well until my meds wear off and that will be around 5am )

I just don't know what i should do now. Of course i have lawyer things to do..but... should I start going out and trying to have fun now?

My dad said he would take the girls if I wanted to go out. I'm thinking of talking to some of my friends I know on FB and see about doing an evening out.

I know she has been creeping my FB and I haven't put anything on it since last Friday. Should I put something on it the day I go out just cause i know she will be checking it out... kinda as a rubbing in thing?

I know it sounds childish but hell,..... if she can go out.. so can I. 

You never know.. i might meet someone really nice to talk to also.

I think she thinks I'm just sitting here feeling sorry for myself ( which I am) but I need to change that.

I want a new job, and new start if this is the way it's gonna be.


----------



## keko

If she looks at your fb, then go out and enjoy it. Make sure to have someone take a few pics of you with friends, with a big fat smile on your face. 

Just my opinion but if you can have a few ladies included in those pics, that'll tickle your wife's jealousy a bit. Maybe she'll see that she IS replaceable or just not give a damn.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I thought of that. I'm sure she creeps my FB by logging into my daughters account. 

Wouldn't she love to see pics of me having a few drinks with some other woman... LOL ( not that i would do anything with them.. but she doesn't need to know that... LOL )


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Nice.. at least she thinks of me enough to forward me the internet bill from her e-mail account.. nice.. LOL

She just did that... WOW


----------



## keko

Do you have any bills of hers you can forward back?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had all of her mail including a tax bills from the government.. but i gave them to her..

To make it worse... in the bag of stuff I sent home with her I put in the bottom the little pink knitted hat they put on our first child before we left the hospital. That would have got her thinking..hard to go on with life when she has a special reminder of her child with her. I'm interested what she would have done with it cause she doesn't throw out that type of stuff.

I don't think she planned for me to load her car with her stuff either.. but now my youngest found another drawer of her stuff. I should just leave it in her car at her work as i don't want it here anymore.


----------



## keko

Forget about giving them to her. Put them in a garbage bag and leave them in the garage, next time she comes she'll either take them or they get donated.


----------



## happyman64

And stop paying her damn bills!

She wants to be single and alone then let her be a big girl.

Big girls pay their own bills.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not paying her bill.. the internet is for the house. The bill came to her e-mail account.

This morning she sent me another job posting.. WTF...


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm feeling pretty good tonight ( well until my meds wear off and that will be around 5am )
> 
> I just don't know what i should do now. Of course i have lawyer things to do..but... should I start going out and trying to have fun now?
> 
> My dad said he would take the girls if I wanted to go out. I'm thinking of talking to some of my friends I know on FB and see about doing an evening out.
> 
> I know she has been creeping my FB and I haven't put anything on it since last Friday. Should I put something on it the day I go out just cause i know she will be checking it out... kinda as a rubbing in thing?
> 
> I know it sounds childish but hell,..... if she can go out.. so can I.
> 
> You never know.. i might meet someone really nice to talk to also.
> 
> I think she thinks I'm just sitting here feeling sorry for myself ( which I am) but I need to change that.
> 
> I want a new job, and new start if this is the way it's gonna be.


This is a great attitude!! 

And YES, "check in" somewhere fun when you go out with your friends. And I think it'll do a TON of good if you talked to your friends about what you're going through, that's what friends are for, to lean on when you need them. They'll also get your mind off things for a while too. 

Do NOT let her think you're wallowing in your own self pity and sorrow, let her know on FB that you're moving on. That'll for sure make her feel unsettled and will take the power away from her.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

keko said:


> Forget about giving them to her. Put them in a garbage bag and leave them in the garage, next time she comes she'll either take them or they get donated.


Or after a set time period (depending on the laws where you are) it's considered "abandoned property" and you can earn some extra cash by selling it on Craig's List!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> This morning she sent me another job posting.. WTF...


Text her and ask her why she's sending you job postings.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm staying dark. The last text I responded to was on Friday. I didn't even respond when she said she was on the way for me fixing her brakes.

I also didn't respond about the taxes needing to be done. I'm just keeping my mouth shut. I know she is thinking of me because she wouldn't be sending me job postings. 

My FB is silent since last Saturday, I haven't talked to her good friend since Friday and i don't plan on it until she calls me.

I laid out everything in my last letter, she can take what she wants from it, and move on or think about it and come back. I didn't say anything while she was at the house which is very out of character for me, so she knows very little about me right now. I know that would probably bother her.

Going quiet is sucking but since the ball is in her court know it is the only thing I can do.

I'm not sure how to handle if she asks to see the kids out of the blue.

I'm thinking of responding: " Not today, you need to plan these in advance" and leave it at that.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm thinking of responding: " Not today, you need to plan these in advance" and leave it at that.


Yes, I totally agree with that.


----------



## happyman64

Was the job posting decent?

I would not comment but at least she has you in mind for waht it is worth.....

But a new job is on your wish list I believe???


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes a new job is certainly on my wish list. I'm not going to comment to her. 

The job was just posted and she got it in her e-mail.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just looked up how much she is gonna have to pay me in child support. Basically 1/4 of her gross pay... wow.. 

I don't think she really knows what she is in for cause she doesn't make much money..


----------



## keko

Sad, hopefully she doesn't know about it just yet. Try to use that as a "shock tool" with her getting the legal separation papers at the same time. It may possible smack some sense into her to come back.....


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No doubt.. 

I am gonna go for the full amount. If she was heartless to leave she will pay for it in child support. Call it mean but that is how I see it. I will also have it so we review her pay and make increases as needed.


----------



## happyman64

Do not feel sad. It is just family business now and you are in charge.

Just the way she wanted it.

Never forget that.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks.. she has no idea what I am capable of..


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I just looked up how much she is gonna have to pay me in child support. Basically 1/4 of her gross pay... wow..
> 
> I don't think she really knows what she is in for cause she doesn't make much money..


That sounds low.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

According to the government of canada that is how much she will have to pay...


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> According to the government of canada that is how much she will have to pay...


Child support + spousal support usually ends up around 40% of income.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know if I get spousal support cause i make more then her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

All I know is that her party times will be coming to and end when she has to give me 1/4 of her pay..

I really don't think she fully fathoms what is about to happen to her.

She can not just leave and party it up.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> All I know is that her party times will be coming to and end when she has to give me 1/4 of her pay..
> 
> I really don't think she fully fathoms what is about to happen to her.
> 
> She can not just leave and party it up.


Yes but you also don't want her coming back home under false R to continue partying. 

Legally, can you request to have the exclusive use of the home? In other words can you keep her away from home while legally separated?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know.. I will have to talk to the lawyer about that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Couldn't get into the lawyers today. The pills I found to help me sleep are really making me sleep. I do need it though.

I'm mad and sad today. But at least I'm awake. 

I'm mad that it looks like this is done between us and I'm also sad because it looks like it's done between us... does that make sense?

Still looking hard for a new job, there just doesn't seem to be much out there right now..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. this sounds wrong but..

I was thinking of driving around on Friday night an Check-in on FB and different places..

I was thinking I would check in at a restaurant first.. wait an hour, then check in at a movie, then check in at a club afterwards..

Since she likes to creep my FB it would almost look like I'm on a date....

LOL


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Yes it totally makes sense to feel both mad and sad. 

Were you able to make an appointment with an attorney? 

How is the overall business with the pizzeria?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now that I have taken over the finances of the pizzeria it seems to be doing better. I think Lisa had given up on both the house and the pizzeria.

What do you think of my Facebook game?


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK.. this sounds wrong but..
> 
> I was thinking of driving around on Friday night an Check-in on FB and different places..
> 
> I was thinking I would check in at a restaurant first.. wait an hour, then check in at a movie, then check in at a club afterwards..
> 
> Since she likes to creep my FB it would almost look like I'm on a date....
> 
> LOL


Don't just do it get a reaction out of her but do it for yourself as well. Go out, enjoy yourself and have a good time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I wasn't actually gonna go to supper or a movie or a club... just park beside and check-in on my phone..

All i really have to do is buy some groceries on Friday night....


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK.. this sounds wrong but..
> 
> I was thinking of driving around on Friday night an Check-in on FB and different places..
> 
> I was thinking I would check in at a restaurant first.. wait an hour, then check in at a movie, then check in at a club afterwards..
> 
> Since she likes to creep my FB it would almost look like I'm on a date....
> 
> LOL


I think it's good. If you're going through this type of crap, why not make lemonade out of lemons and have a little fun with it. :smthumbup:


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I wasn't actually gonna go to supper or a movie or a club... just park beside and check-in on my phone..
> 
> All i really have to do is buy some groceries on Friday night....


Actually I don't know if I'd go NUTS with the check-ins, I would only do one check-in for Friday. Overkill might make her suspect you're just playing around on FB. 

I would at some point soon check into a gym near you. The idea that you're working out now and taking care of your appearance (and health) will bother her.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

If I were you though, I'd make an effort to get together with your friends. Are any buddies available to get together at some point soon? Hearing some positive reinforcement from friends and having their support as your friends will do you some good too.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was talking to a friend of mine ( female ) yesterday and she said I should go in and have coffee with her. I'm not attracted to her but I think she is of me. 

I told her I'm not interested in dating , I just want a night out.

99% of my friends are married with children and hang out at home on the weekends. 

I was laughing to myself and think I should check in at the most expensive restaurant in town.. she would be wondering WTF and where did he get that money.. LOL


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

How long should I give her before I seek Child Support Payments. In a few weeks I'm gonna have to get my girls ready to go back to school.

I do know the minute I find out she is dating someone I will be cutting off her car insurance and sign the car over to her and she will be on her own for sure.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was laughing to myself and think I should check in at the most expensive restaurant in town.. she would be wondering WTF and where did he get that money.. LOL


LMAO!! 




Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> How long should I give her before I seek Child Support Payments. In a few weeks I'm gonna have to get my girls ready to go back to school.
> 
> I do know the minute I find out she is dating someone I will be cutting off her car insurance and sign the car over to her and she will be on her own for sure.


I asked you if you were able to make an appointment with an attorney but you didn't answer. 

You need child support NOW. While you're waiting to see an attorney, I think you would go to the family court in your area and submit a court order for child support? 

For now you're going to have to ask her for help in supporting her children financially.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> How long should I give her before I seek Child Support Payments. In a few weeks I'm gonna have to get my girls ready to go back to school.
> 
> *None. Do it right away and without telling her you're doing it. Will she be notified by mail? Called to court? Or you'll have to ask from her?*
> 
> I do know the minute I find out she is dating someone I will be cutting off her car insurance and sign the car over to her and she will be on her own for sure.
> 
> *You need to give her 24 hours to find a new insurance and that you'll be cancelling the current one.*


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will be going to see the lawyer tomorrow morning to set up an appointment to discuss where to begin with all of this.

The big thing will be the business.

We are partners but we were going to move around the percentage so that we minimize the taxes. Right now I want to make it 50/50 on the taxes.. she is a partner in the business.. she should pay half the taxes.

She certainly won't like that because I have been running it myself for the past year and a half. Too bad I say..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

As I do the laundry and sweep the floor my wife is texting to my daughter sitting here..

Do I read anything into that or is she just trying to keep in touch with her daughter?


----------



## keko

Try not to involve your kids to much into your biz. If you're dying to read the texts, wait until they go to sleep and read it then.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did read them.. and it was just asking how she's doing.. but now I know she applying for a full time job... 

Good .. now she will have more than enough to pay child support and her our car insurance.


----------



## keko

Good, at least she isn't neglecting them too much.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I set my 8 year you with a live account and put all of her moms e-mail addresses in it.. she has been sending messages to her that way..

The oldest one has a phone so they text each other.

I'm glad they are talking.. but I really wish she was here talking to them face to face.

I assume she texts my oldest because she misses her.. That's good i guess..


----------



## happyman64

Sad,
It is good that she communicates with your girls. That is the least she should do.

Now I want you to communicate with your wife too.

Through your new attorney.

Have her served. Bam!
Request child support. Bam!

Discuss the business, taxes and insurance with your attorney. Discuss the mortgage too.

This is not to punish your wife. This is to show her consequences for her actions. 

She wants to abandon the family and walk away from the marriage. Fine. But those actions come with consequences.

Good Luck tomorrow.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks.. I can imagine the lawyer will have quite a bit of stuff I will need to do for him to get this ball rolling.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thanks.. I can imagine the lawyer will have quite a bit of stuff I will need to do for him to get this ball rolling.


What are you waiting for?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will see what he wants when i see him tomorrow. Or he might schedule an appointment. I won't know until I get there.. he has been on vacation


----------



## happyman64

First step is always the hardest Sad.

And we all know you do not want to do this but this is your first step to taking back control of your wife.

Do not do it to get your wife home. That will not happen. Do it to protect you and your family.

Do it to put some order into your life. Look at it as making a statement to your wife of what is and what is not acceptable to you.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm really starting to understand now.. that is for sure. 

Since I have been able to sleep better I am clearer on what needs to get done here. When you not sleeping, your head is in the clouds and you can't think straight.

Time to get the ball rolling.

BTW.. I had 5 people say.. WOW you've lost weight.. 

This is the first time i have been in the 160's since 2005. In 2009 I was 215 but for the past few years i have been around 185...

Starving yourself is certainly not a good way to lose weight, but it's gone now..


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I will see what he wants when i see him tomorrow. Or he might schedule an appointment. I won't know until I get there.. he has been on vacation


Until then start writing down your questions, such as what you're hoping to achieve and what you're not willing to give up.

Also read up your province's laws on divorce to get an idea on what to expect. Don't blindly take your lawyer's word for everything, either verify it yourself or ask a 3rd party, or even divorce forums.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> BTW.. I had 5 people say.. WOW you've lost weight..
> 
> This is the first time i have been in the 160's since 2005. In 2009 I was 215 but for the past few years i have been around 185...
> 
> Starving yourself is certainly not a good way to lose weight, but it's gone now..


Now start building muscle's. Either your wife will come back to the new you or her replacement will be a piece of cake to find.


----------



## 06Daddio08

keko said:


> Now start building muscle's. Either your wife will come back to the new you or her replacement will be a piece of cake to find.


Mine didn't come back with my new guns.

But I'll have nice big ol' grin for the sap who has his arm being pulled by her when we do eventually meet.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is true... time to get out on the bike ( I really should drop her bike off at her new place cause it takes up room in the backroom of the house..LOL)

I don't have a weight set but a gym membership might not be a bad idea.. ( good way to meet chicks too... LOL )


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> That is true... time to get out on the bike ( I really should drop her bike off at her new place cause it takes up room in the backroom of the house..LOL)


No you're not. You'll be having a yard sale soon and all the junk left behind will be sold at a discount.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. this is bad.. I went in to FB through my daughters account to see what my ex is doing.. I got that crazy anxiety attack just before I did it. I just had to see if it still said single... grrrrr

There was nothing to look at... now I feel dumb

Now I'm asking myself.. Why did i do that?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK.. this is bad.. I went in to FB through my daughters account to see what my ex is doing.. I got that crazy anxiety attack just before I did it. I just had to see if it still said single... grrrrr
> 
> There was nothing to look at... now I feel dumb
> 
> Now I'm asking myself.. Why did i do that?


How old is your daughter?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

12...


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> 12...


Now, without trying to be insulting. As this is an honest question.

Why are you invading your daughters privacy?

If that's not a good enough reason to not do that again (as it is also beneficial to you). I dunno what is.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Normally when I open Google Chrome it goes to my other e-mail account that i use in my job search. For some reason my daughter changed it to go right to her FB account.. 

So there I was sitting in her FB account and Lisa was only one click away...

It's like a smoker sitting there staring at a pack of smokes when they are quitting.. it's tough to say no to it..


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Normally when I open Google Chrome it goes to my other e-mail account that i use in my job search. For some reason my daughter changed it to go right to her FB account..
> 
> So there I was sitting in her FB account and Lisa was only one click away...
> 
> It's like a smoker sitting there staring at a pack of smokes when they are quitting.. it's tough to say no to it..


Won't get any better for you until you do.

Maybe it's time to switch to Firefox?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I use firefox all the time.. I just use other browsers so I don't have to keep logging out and logging in all the time.

I run 5 different browsers..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> BTW.. I had 5 people say.. WOW you've lost weight..
> 
> This is the first time i have been in the 160's since 2005. In 2009 I was 215 but for the past few years i have been around 185...
> 
> Starving yourself is certainly not a good way to lose weight, but it's gone now..


How tall are you? 160 seems low? Don't lose too much weight!

As a parent, you're not invading her privacy, she's still a minor and under your supervision. I understand WHY you logged into her account but as a parent you have every right to do so, whatever the reason. Especially FB accounts and social networking.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am 5' 6" ... I was getting a little chunky so I did need to lose some weight. It's nice to see my toes again.. LOL


----------



## foreverheartbroken

LOL!!

I still think you should "check in" to a gym. Bike riding will help you get into shape too. 

Do you have any idea why you didn't take care of yourself (your health, your weight) in your marriage?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lazy.. lazy on everything... 

Fell into a pattern, got complacent... just figured it is what it is.

Now I know love is a full time job. You work at it everyday if you want it to be successful.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Did you and your wife have any "date nights"?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

we were starting to again.. they were really nice nights out.

Should could have insisted on them too but didn't.. so I'm putting blame on her too.. not just me


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now I just know my wife is gonna text tonight that she wants to see the girls.

I want her to not just show up.. I want her to plan the visits. 

Is it ok for me to say " Not tonight I would like 2 days notice to see the girls"?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

She wants to see the girls anytime she feels like it, without consulting with you, and she won't reply to you regarding child support or any money she can provide towards the children or ANY arrangements whatsoever? She expects you to pay for EVERYTHING for the kids now? And she also expects to be able to see them anytime she wants without talking to you at all? You shouldn't allow all this!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think I am anymore.

What should I say.. I want some money before you see the kids? That is like blackmail.

You will not see the kids until we have a visitation schedule?

You will not see the kids until we discuss child support?

I don't know what to say.

All I know is if she asks to see them today I'm saying no because i want notice before hand?


----------



## keko

"I already planned something else for them, from now on send your request's 2 days in advance."


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That works...

What if she sends a text back... what are they doing?

I'm thinking of not responding..I need to be a hard a$$ now I thinking


----------



## foreverheartbroken

If she asks to see the kids tonight, you could simply tell her that you have a special evening planned together with them and leave it at that. 

You could even go so far as to say, "If you'd like to join us in our family night you will be welcome to."


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know about having her with us... I think she was so uncomfortable on Sunday that she would not want to be around me..

So far...4 days NC... that is a record...


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Any time she asks to see the girls, you'll already have plans with them and she's welcome to join in as a family. Be more of a PRESENCE than you were last Sunday too. Don't just sit back and let her have her time with them. 

Regarding child support, tell her: "On a separate note, I will need $ ____ from you for their school supplies, back to school clothes, and the grocery bill for this week was $____. Tell her you also need assistance with the electricity bill (room/board for the children = child support).


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has already stated to me that she will not pay for anything to do with the house.. including groceries bills etc.

She says she has her own bills to pay and i have to give her time to make more money.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't know about having her with us... I think she was so uncomfortable on Sunday that she would not want to be around me...


That's the point. So you won't be "blackmailing" her so to speak, nor are you keeping her from seeing her children.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I think not letting her see the kids at all would be worse then having her tag along. 

Right now she has been able to see the kids whenever she wants with no consequences of her behavior.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She has already stated to me that she will not pay for anything to do with the house.. including groceries bills etc.
> 
> She says she has her own bills to pay and i have to give her time to make more money.




So in other words she's refusing to pay for her children's food, room/board. 

I would be furious. That's not what I call being a mother *at all*.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> That works...
> 
> What if she sends a text back... what are they doing?
> 
> I'm thinking of not responding..I need to be a hard a$$ now I thinking


"I've got to go BYE."


----------



## foreverheartbroken

If you refuse to let her see them, what can she do? She would have to go through the court system, right? At that point, that's when you can get the child support settled up legally and it comes out of her paycheck if she doesn't pay up!


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I think not letting her see the kids at all would be worse then having her tag along.
> 
> Right now she has been able to see the kids whenever she wants with no consequences of her behavior.


Not at all, you're already going to tell her to send you a request 2 days in advance. You'll either accept or decline it depending on your schedule.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I think not letting her see the kids at all would be worse then having her tag along.
> 
> Right now she has been able to see the kids whenever she wants with no consequences of her behavior.


How many times has she seen them since she left that Tuesday?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Here is a good laugh.. I'll quote it from her text..

" I can't afford to pay your bills too..I need some time to find another part time job to pay you some child support. please be an adult about this. I have to live and pay rent too"

I responded:

So you get to keep all of your paycheck and I get to be broke paying all the bills to support the kids. Listen to what you said and see who is being the adult. You wanted me to man up.. here it is"

her response

" I never said I was keeping it all but I only work part time you need to give me time"

That was two days after she left..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has seen the girls 2 times for a total of 5 hours since she left.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

She's acting like a complete CHILD in all of this. I don't know how you're not furious about how you were treated, how the children were abandoned, and what an immature child she is acting like. Give her time, everyone needs to bow down to her, this is all about her? No, I don't think so!


----------



## keko

You need to stop showing her your hand. Instead of telling you need $$, have her ordered by the legal system to support you/kids.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well her cousins husband came over to visit me yesterday. 

He told her cousin ( who she is extremely close to) that she is no longer welcome in their home.

I am slowly seeing how much I'm getting screwed in this deal. 

I'm feeling like someone threw a hand full of sand in the KY Jelly and bent me over the table.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She has seen the girls 2 times for a total of 5 hours since she left.


Wow. You were worried about her brakes for the 5 hours total she had the kids??


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Also her Aunt ( who is basically like a mother to her) want to talk to me... I don't think she is very happy either. The whole family is turning against her.. and she doesn't have much of a family.


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> He told her cousin ( who she is extremely close to) that she is no longer welcome in their home.


She's feeding lies to her family/friends to increase her support. For the one's that don't know that she left the house on her own you need to get the record straight with them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She will be taking the kids for the weekend next week ( I don't know she hasn't said anything to me about it) and I wanted the car to be safe carrying the kids. That was my feeling on that.

I'm getting to know that she is getting her cake and eating it too.. It just took two really good nights sleep to clear my mind of the saddness I have been feeling.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

keko said:


> She's feeding lies to her family/friends to increase her support. For the one's that don't know that she left the house on her own you need to get the record straight with them.


No.. the cousin can no longer invite Lisa to their house.. she is no longer welcome.. just me and the kids..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

keko said:


> You need to stop showing her your hand. Instead of telling you need $$, have her ordered by the legal system to support you/kids.


THIS. Hurry up and get this ball rolling.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm feeling like someone threw a hand full of sand in the KY Jelly and bent me over the table.


I would find that to be an appropriate analogy. 


No pun intended.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm just waiting now to find out if she gets the new job.. the i will be going for the full amount based on her income.

I will send her a link to the table on the government website that will show her how much she will have to pay.

She will crap herself when she see that with her new job she will be paying 475 a month..... more than a full paycheck..

Too friggin bad.. she could have stayed and worked it out...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

foreverheartbroken said:


> I would find that to be an appropriate analogy.
> 
> 
> No pun intended.


It fits doesn't it.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Also her Aunt ( who is basically like a mother to her) want to talk to me... I don't think she is very happy either. The whole family is turning against her.. and she doesn't have much of a family.


Be open to seeing her Aunt. Be open to see all family and friends and they will really understand the truth. Good for them turning against her. She's being horrible.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It fits doesn't it.


Ouch!! lol!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She will be taking the kids for the weekend next week ( I don't know she hasn't said anything to me about it) and I wanted the car to be safe carrying the kids. That was my feeling on that.
> 
> I'm getting to know that she is getting her cake and eating it too.. It just took two really good nights sleep to clear my mind of the saddness I have been feeling.


DO NOT let her take the kids!!! She leaves you, breaks your heart, abandons the kids, then expects you to pay for all their needs including their FOOD?! Then she thinks she can just take them away for the weekend?? For real?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has nowhere to take them too.. she rents a room at a friends house. There is little chance of her keeping the kids.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

What's sad is that she has no place to take them to, no money to spend on them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Pretty much.. She was going to take them down to her friend ( who also left her husband and now switched teams) and is taking them to the pride family fun day. 

I don't care that her friend is gay... but I do know she was one of the ladies that convinced her to leave me.

I won't know what to do with myself for a whole weekend.. 

Hire a hooker? LOL LOL LOL LOL


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't care that her friend is gay... but I do know she was one of the ladies that convinced her to leave me.


How do you know?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I went through some of her texts before she left.

Lisa wrote that leaving me would be a financial nightmare. her friend said that she faced the same thing but did it anyways. 

I think that gave Lisa enough hope to think that this would work for her.

it pisses me off when people tell other people to leave their spouse. I always tell people to work it out until there is nothing left to fight for.

Lisa just took the easy way out. Now she will be in worse shape then ever.

Once she adds the pizzeria tax debt from 2011 to what she still owes on her 2010 taxes she will be over 10 000 then she still owes me half $6000 of the credit line and half $1500 of the visa plus she will be paying me $475 in child support. Also she will have to have her own car insurance and maintenance costs. Plus I will have her put the car in her own name.

I hope she likes like on Kraft Dinner.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Does her friend have any kids? 

Do you think you should wait before you find a new job? If you find a new job, won't your added income factor into the child support she has to pay you? For example if you're earning more money, wouldn't she have to pay you less?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has a daughter from her marriage. She also left her daughter with her husband.

I have been thinking about the new job thing. The good part is that if Lisa gets this new job she will have benefits and the girls can go under her plan. That will cut down on a ton of medical costs we are paying now. My oldest is ADHD and her meds run over $100 a month.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Yes but regardless of whether she gets a new job or not, what about if YOU get a new job? You will have BOTH the pizzeria and your new job as income, thus reducing the amount of child support Lisa would have to pay you. So if that is true, shouldn't you wait to get a 2nd job until the court determines the child support amount she pays you based on your income from solely the pizzeria? She will be stuck paying that amount even after you get a new job, unless she can file a modification to pay you less and I think the court would frown upon that, as they always rule in favor of whomever the children are living with, at least that's my guess!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I get it..

I just hate being alone in the pizzeria.. How am I gonna meet people if I spend my days spending here feeling sorry about myself..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Yeah, that's true... 

You don't get a lot of foot traffic in there, don't many customers come in? What about employees to chat with?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do.. but it just isn't the same.. Everyone in town here knows what I'm going through and it seems like a pity party.. I hate that.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Well, at least they all have sympathy for you, and not for her. If you had done her wrong, it's hard for anyone to believe she wouldn't just kick YOU out and stand by her children. I think most people would think it's pretty awful for a mother to leave her children. So pity party or not, she must have really ruined her reputation in town, as well as with her family. It says a lot when someone is saying she's not welcome in their home anymore.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No one posts on her FB except her friend she is going to see in a few weeks..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Does she post statuses and not as many people "like" or comment?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

stupid stuff like.. I want chocolate... and I'm slightly drunk... stupid stuff.

I haven't posted on FB since Saturday...


----------



## keko

Avoid fb, all it does is add drama to an already tense situation.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Oh that's just dumb. That's such "all about me" stuff.

My guess is that she must have been really selfish in the marriage. Did everything seem to revolve around her and what SHE wanted? She sounds like she really needs help.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes.. I was always wrong... 

The weekend before she left she went and spent her whole paycheck on STUFF with her friends and told it was because since I don't give a $HIT about the books, neither will she.

I did see when she came over on Sunday that she had new sunglasses and a new purse. Meanwhile she couldn't take the kids for anything because she was broke.. WTF...


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> *She has a daughter from her marriage. She also left her daughter with her husband.
> *
> I have been thinking about the new job thing. The good part is that if Lisa gets this new job she will have benefits and the girls can go under her plan. That will cut down on a ton of medical costs we are paying now. My oldest is ADHD and her meds run over $100 a month.


Sound familiar sad???

You still don't see everything that your wife is hiding......


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Yes.. I was always wrong...
> 
> The weekend before she left she went and spent her whole paycheck on STUFF with her friends and told it was because since I don't give a $HIT about the books, neither will she.
> 
> *I did see when she came over on Sunday that she had new sunglasses and a new purse. Meanwhile she couldn't take the kids for anything because she was broke.. WTF...*


Keep your eyes open for this type of nonsense. Keep it recorded somewhere.

Keep track of her hours with the girls. Copy her texts before you forget them.

Build your case and get the attorney to act on your behalf.

Do not send her links to the Gov't website. She does not care.

You need to have it handled by the Gov't or an attorney!!!


----------



## keko

Is her phone under your name or does the bill come to your house?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

the home is in her name, the cell phone is in both our names..

She forwards me the home phone bill to my e-mail...


----------



## keko

I meant the cell, can you see her call/text logs?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know... I never checked.....

I guess I should... 

She rarely ever calls on her phone.. it is 99% texts...


----------



## keko

Check the number's she texts to.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

do you even get that in your bill?


----------



## keko

I do.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'll have to check it out then...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well It's Friday now and she hasn't wanted to see the kids at all this week.

She just seems to be getting farther and farther away each week.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> do you even get that in your bill?


You should be able to check the online bills. With my Verizon account, I can see 12 months worth of statements that include the date, time and phone number for all incoming and outgoing calls and texts.


----------



## DailyGrind

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well It's Friday now and she hasn't wanted to see the kids at all this week.
> 
> She just seems to be getting farther and farther away each week.


Document it!!! Document every day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

yep.. for sure.. 

I have a calendar all full of it..

Should I document the times I know she texts my daughter?


----------



## DailyGrind

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> yep.. for sure..
> 
> I have a calendar all full of it..
> 
> Should I document the times I know she texts my daughter?


I would document tbe good with the bad, so it shows you are being honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## foreverheartbroken

How involved over the years was she with the kids while she still lived in the house?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She was somewhat active. She never wanted to go and watch them skate. I could never get her up to do it. She had a short fuse with the kids.

She would attend school events and stuff. She was quite withdrawn from a lot of events.

I was always the primary person doing things with the kids. I can see why she left them with me.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

That's too bad . The kids are so lucky to have your presence in their lives because it doesn't seem like their mother wants to have much of a presence.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When do I contact her.. or do I just keep my mouth shut. It's been Since Sunday that we had any communication.

I want to reconcile with her but we are not talking..

I don't know what to do ???????????


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> When do I contact her.. or do I just keep my mouth shut. It's been Since Sunday that we had any communication.
> 
> I want to reconcile with her but we are not talking..
> 
> I don't know what to do ???????????


Document it and keep your trap shut when it comes to reconcile .. because it won't do any good.

I did give my ex **** the first few months for bailing on the kids. But she always had an excuse.

Even now, she was suppose to take them Thur night to Friday after I was done work .. so she did not come on Wed for her scheduled visit.

She bailed on me, screwed me over and didn't even call the kids to say hi or anything this week.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She texts my oldest... she can only communicate with the youngest by E-mail and that is only when my girl checks her e-mail.

It's quite sad. 

My oldest is 12 and is slowly getting to the point that she will need her moms advice. I don't know what I'm gonna do when that "day" comes....


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She texts my oldest... she can only communicate with the youngest by E-mail and that is only when my girl checks her e-mail.
> 
> It's quite sad.
> 
> My oldest is 12 and is slowly getting to the point that she will need her moms advice. I don't know what I'm gonna do when that "day" comes....


She doesn't call?

As for your girl, I get that .. I have a 6 year old.

But when that time comes, I'll do what I have to to help her out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I think she is ready.. she told me they explain a lot in school and I know her mother has told her what to do... 

But seriously.. I don't really want to know about my little girls parts and becoming a woman.

She doesn't not call the house, she doesn't text me, she doesn't e-mail me. The last words on Sunday was.. thank you for fixing my car and thank you for supper. That's it.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She texts my oldest... she can only communicate with the youngest by E-mail and that is only when my girl checks her e-mail.
> 
> It's quite sad.
> 
> My oldest is 12 and is slowly getting to the point that she will need her moms advice. I don't know what I'm gonna do when that "day" comes....


Sad
Your wife's head is so far up her own [email protected] I would not want her giving advice to your daughter. 

Stop thinking of R. Your wife is heading in the opposite direction.

Protect yourself right now. Protect your kids.

And worry about the next few weeks and months for now.


----------



## 06Daddio08

happyman64 said:


> Sad
> Your wife's head is so far up her own [email protected] I would not want her giving advice to your daughter.
> 
> Stop thinking of R. Your wife is heading in the opposite direction.
> 
> Protect yourself right now. Protect your kids.
> 
> And worry about the next few weeks and months for now.


Yeah dude, you are what .. almost 3 weeks in?

Not to put the scare on your or anything .. but I am now almost 5 months in and she has not looked back once in regards to our relationship.

I only hear from her when it's convenient for her.

Other than that, she is non existent.

Although, she does take the kids 50 / 50 .. but that's because I strongly believe my kids need to have both parents in there lives and I didn't give her the choice in the matter.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

UpnOver... has she moved on to date yet?


----------



## happyman64

Sad
If your wife does not contact you to see the kids by tomorrow, send her a text that you will be dropping them on Sunday at noon because you need to get things done.

Do not give her a choice.

Be firm.

Your wife is acting immature like she has no responsibilities.

So pretend you have a 3rd daughter and treat her like you would a child.

Then go do something on zsunday to relieve some stress.


G


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> UpnOver... has she moved on to date yet?


Dude, 3 weeks after leaving she was 'single' on FB.

She was buying birth control a week after she left.

And she has gone to 'the lake' (whos lake? who knows) about 4 times in the last 5 months.

I wouldn't call it dating.

Ha.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My wife dropped my on FB the day she left and changed her status to single.

I don't even know where she lives. I have no forwarding address or phone number.

Pretty soon I'm gonna have her mail forwarded to her work.. they love that. LOL


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My wife dropped my on FB the day she left and changed her status to single.
> 
> I don't even know where she lives. I have no forwarding address or phone number.
> 
> Pretty soon I'm gonna have her mail forwarded to her work.. they love that. LOL


Looks like yours took it as far as mine .. but then up a notch.

You're in Ontario right?

Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Couldn't go to the lawyer.. had to wait for a repairman at the pizzeria for my prep-table... more $$$ i can't afford...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I really want to know WTF is up with her.. 

How can you walk away and have zero conversation with the person you have been with for 16 years...

How can she be so cold.. I don't have any answers, I haven't heard the D word I haven't heard the R word.. I haven't heard $hit.

WTF!!!!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. I found out some stuff from her cousin..

My wife became a spiritualist about 1.5 years ago. She does energy healing , tarot card readings etc. I was cool with that.. even went to church with her to learn more about it.

Her cousin told me that she did a reading on herself last year and it showed that we wouldn't be together this summer. This goes in align with what she told my daughter before she left.. that big changes will be happening before September.

She is going off of her card readings. She is doing what her cards tell her to do. Is this friggin insane?

The Saturday before she left she went upstairs with her cards... from that moment on she didn't talk to me and left on the Tuesday.

WTF.. Who goes off their "guides" instead of their heart.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. I found out some stuff from her cousin..
> 
> My wife became a spiritualist about 1.5 years ago. She does energy healing , tarot card readings etc. I was cool with that.. even went to church with her to learn more about it.
> 
> Her cousin told me that she did a reading on herself last year and it showed that we wouldn't be together this summer. This goes in align with what she told my daughter before she left.. that big changes will be happening before September.
> 
> She is going off of her card readings. She is doing what her cards tell her to do. Is this friggin insane?
> 
> The Saturday before she left she went upstairs with her cards... from that moment on she didn't talk to me and left on the Tuesday.
> 
> *WTF.. Who goes off their "guides" instead of their heart.*


Someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for there own actions and use the cards as an excuse.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I think it's crazy nuts to use that for making decisions.. that's like tossing a coin in the air and catching it for yes or no..

She has completely gone mental I think.


----------



## ScottH454

Oh that's crazy, I was so very close to mine coming back but her psychic person told her to wait for a few more months. So yeah I'm there with you on that experience. Who knows what they're telling her, but as for the cards well she left them here with me.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I talked to her former best friend who was her mentor in training her to read cards.

She said it is very dangerous to read your own cards. Cards don't tell you dates and times, only situations. 

As she sees it, Lisa is using the cards to validate her behavior. Not getting info from her guides.


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## Shaggy

She made it come true so it's BS. It didn't happen by fate, it happened by her actions.

I still say there is an OM here.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have no idea if there is OM.. 

I hope there isn't and she is spending this time to better herself and get to know herself better.


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## happyman64

Go meet with an attorney. Get his/her business card.

Hand it to your wife along with D papers and tell her " here is the only card I am going to use to guide my life.

Goodbye."


----------



## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have no idea if there is OM..
> 
> I hope there isn't and she is spending this time to better herself and get to know herself better.


What did you find in the phone records? Any number you don't know?

She's staying with a toxic friend so you can never be sure if she's bringing in guys and such.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Didn`t find anything in there..

I cant see her bringing men home to someone else`s apartment.. I do agree that she is pretty toxic..


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## keko

No, that someone else bringing and your wife joining them.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

From what I hear she is fat and quite ugly and no one at her work ( works at the same place as Lisa and three other friends of mine) likes her at all.


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## keko

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> From what I hear she is fat and quite ugly and no one at her work ( works at the same place as Lisa and three other friends of mine) likes her at all.


Even worse, she could be bringing random men off craigslist and other adult friend finder sites.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks for the positive postings..

She did just text my daughter to say she was just waking up... at 2pm..

WTF..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now I'm pissed off..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sent her a text saying that we need to sit down and discuss things. I need answers.


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## keko

Things such as?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well I texted her to meet and we met at a library so my youngest could be scarce while we talked.

She has been extremely sick since leaving. My wife has bad gastritis which is usually controlled by over the counter zantac. Even the zantac isn't working so I know she is super stressed. My wife is unable to burp.. you have to pat her on the back like a kid to get her to burp and it is extremely painful. She says it's worse then cramps.

She said she doesn't want to come back and says two weeks isn't enough to prove that I have changed. She didn't say she wants a divorce but right now she is still angry at me for not making do on all of my promises that I didn't keep over the years. Leaving the way she did was the only way she thought she could do it.

She is not interested in MC or R right now. She says she is happier without me ( ya and that's why she's sick..). She misses the kids terribly and has been fighting that the entire time she has been gone.

Since she makes very little she has not even gone out accept for the beach and someone else drove. She just works and sits on the couch.

I asked her if she would be interested in going on dates. She said no cause it would only confuse her worse. She says she's not even sure if she loves me anymore. 

She is still quite angry from the night that she had to tell of the saleman at the door when I should have then I posted on FB how hot I thought she was for doing that. That was wrong and I apologized for that.

I told her how much it was going to cost her if she was to pay child support. She says if she gives me the house and the pizzeria she shouldn't pay that amount. I told her that would be up to a judge. She said she would like to go without using a lawyer since neither of us can afford it.

I told her how i was gonna split the taxes on the pizzeria 50/50 rather then move the taxes around until it worked out best for us. She went white.

I told her if she would like to work it out she doesn't have to come home yet. We could see counseling and she could stay where she was until things got better. She didn't like that idea.

She says she is still confused and angry that it took her leaving for me to realize that i needed to change and she is not sure if she even wants to fix it. She cried as she talked about this.

I said.. 4 weeks ago you wanted to make love multiple times and day and the weekend before you left we were cuddling on the deck at her cousins... then all of the sudden she's pissed and gone.

She cried and said I wanted you to notice me and take change and fix things. You didn't get the hint. I told her she need to use her words and tell me of issues, not give hits. Guys are terrible with hints.

I told her that I'm pissed that she only saw the kids twice in 3 weeks and that she hasn't given me any money. She offered me some money and I told her forget it cause it was only offered because I said something.

We agreed on some of the bills that need to get paid.

When we left I gave her a hug and told her " even though you are not home, the three of us love you dearly and hope you feel better soon"

She was pretty upset when she left and was REALLY upset hugging Amie ( my youngest) goodbye.

I don't know what to make of this.... but at least I know it isn't over another guy and she is hurting worst then me ( I know that sounds sick).

I don't know what my next move should be?


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## keko

You just ruined everything you've been building up.....


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## Sbrown

Do you not find it odd that she's blaming you? Have you read about the 180? Women don't want another vagina!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Actually part of the discussion was to determine a schedule on seeing the children and that I will need support for the children.

Did you guys not read any of that.

In her text to me that we do need more communication for the children sake. 

I was civil and non groveling... this was the first major talk of the split up since she left. I wanted questions answered.

KEKO .. what was I building up? Quietness was all that was building up and their mother not seeing her children.. that was it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had the best sleep last night. I have come to realize that before any R can happen I need to continue to grow as a person. I do doubt it might not happen, the fact that she hasn't discusses D then there might still be a chance.


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## Sbrown

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I had the best sleep last night. I have come to realize that before any R can happen I need to continue to grow as a person. I do doubt it might not happen, the fact that she hasn't discusses D then there might still be a chance.


She hasn't discussed D because YOU ARE THE BACK UP PLAN! SHE KNOWS SHE HAS YOU RIGHT WHERE SHE WANTS YOU! PLAYING YOU LIKE A FIDDLE!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Maybe, maybe not.

I'm just glad she is gonna see the kids. They have missed her quite a bit.

She is sitting in her own misery right now. She left and moved into her own hell. I'm glad she isn't just having a party but actually upset about this whole situation.


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## daybyday26

I've read over your thread and sorry to hear about what your going through.

I really admire how strong your being especially going through all this with 2 kids as well it must be so hard for you.

Ya I dont understand how you wrecked everything you've been building up. I've read the 180 threads and although I agree that lot of the things can help. But i still think they are just a bunch of general guidelines to follow and people need to do what makes them feel better and what is best for them. But then again I dont profess to be that knowledgeable on the subject. 

Its great that you had a good nights sleep. going through a seperation at moment I know how much of a big deal it is to be able to just go to bed and have a good nights sleep.

Stay Strong


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you. 

Lisa and I both agree that NC was not helping the situation with the kids. They were missing her and she was missing them. 

I might be upset but they still need their mother.

The rest of the issues we can discuss over time. Neither of us are moving on to other relationships, she just has a HUGE doubt that I can change.

Only time will tell if that can be changed in her mind.


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## 06Daddio08

Do not get fooled into thinking you're the only one with a problem
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What do you mean?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> What do you mean?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Upnover means she`s blaming you for all the problems as the reason why she left.

Do you honestly feel this is entirely your fault?
If not speak out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No I don't. I even told her yesterday that I wasn't taking all the blame for the communication breakdown. 

She didn't really answer to it.

I know there is a lot more to talk about but right now I know she is hurting too.. which in a sick way makes me feel better about myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Posse

If I were in your shoes, I would document everything that has happened, file and seek sole custody with reasonable visitation for her.

Your kids need as much stability as they can get, and they are only going to get that from you. Your wife is incapable of providing anything even remotely approaching stability right now.

You need to be in a position to protect the kids from your wife's mental problems.

Your wife is hurting far worse than you are-her train has left the tracks. Nonetheless, allowing her to live with no accountability for her actions is not in your, her, and ESPECIALLY your children's best interests.

She is the one with the big problems, not you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have to agree. She was stressing to me how she doesn't want lawyers involved because of the cost. I bet after I laid out how much debt she is going to have after this and she almost froze.

Today I sent her two pictures of the girls swimming at my nieces birthday party but got nothing back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sbrown

What did you expect to get back?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know.. maybe a compliment on the children.. this is the first family function she has missed. It might be bothering her to see me out while she's sick at her new home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

Or it may annoy the heck out of her that you keep finding every reason to text...just a thought.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That could be true. My daughter texted her a picture and she responded right away... but then again she isn't pissed off at the girls... she's pissed at me.

BTW.. I only texted her once yesterday to get together for a talk and that was the first text to her in 7 days and zero e-mails

Yours making it like I send 10 texts a day... which I haven't


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Just trying to figure out my next course of action..

Very confused tonight..


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This morning I feel like crap. I don't know if she has any intentions of ever making this work.

I keep thinking of her saying " it's only been 2 weeks, how can I tell you've changed in 2 weeks" and " I want my family, I just don't want you"

Those sting...


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

You should change your user name to Madwithtwolittlegirls.

You should get mad at your wife.

You think your wife left you because she was mad at you because you have not stepped up to the plate as a man, father and main provider.

Well you are wrong. Even if you are responsible for 75% percent of the problems in the marriage that does not excuse your wife from walking out the door.

She might say that she is pissed at you. And think you are not going to change but that is not all the truth.

You see Sad, when a husband and wife love each other they communicate and work out their issues. They work together.

Your wife not only left you she left her girls. That is a serious red flag. Your wife is not dealing with a full deck.

She had options. IC or MC. Hell, she could have found a full time job so she could support the family better.

But no. Her decision was to leave you and your daughters. 

That shows someone that is having serious mental issues.

If I was in this position I would get an attorney and have a formal separation put together. Your wife wants you to take charge.

Well she is right you should. And going to the attorney is the 1st sign you should show her that you are stepping up to the plate.

Custody plan formalized.
Child support plan for her formalized.

Do this to protect your kids.

And when she tries to use this against you tell her you are not doing this to punish her for leaving. You are doing this to protect your children from a "walk away" wife and mother.

Tell her this is to push her in the right direction to get a full time job so she can afford a better place for her and your daughters.

So she can share in the financial stability for your kids.

And that you are doing this so you can move on to. 

Then get your life in gear.

Get in shape.
Get a new job so you are happy as well.

Then you can evaluate your feelings about your wife and marriage.

No more big decisions until those issues are resolved.

The more you listen to her nonsense the longer you will flounder in limbo.

Set the course for your life and them move forward.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is tough... 

I don't know why I just want to take care of her.. that's all I think about. She said I didn't man up.. and I keep thinking that taking care of her is manning up and will change her mind.

Man.... my brain is going in circles......grrrrr


----------



## jdlash

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> This is tough...
> 
> I don't know why I just want to take care of her.. that's all I think about. She said I didn't man up.. and I keep thinking that taking care of her is manning up and will change her mind.
> 
> Man.... my brain is going in circles......grrrrr



Taking care of her is the furthest thing from manning up. That's like saying, I'm scared and I want to hold you close to me so that I know " I"M SAFE ".


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Exactly.. it's safe.

It's like I make 10 steps ahead and then make 15 steps backwards...


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

A man takes care of his family. Your wife is no longer part of that equation by her own choice.

And sadly, you cannot fix her or take care of her. When she walked out on you and the girls that was her choice.

She is no longer your responsibility.

SO again, see a lawyer and proceed to protect you, your interests and your girls.

Then work on you. She needs to want to come back. If those reasons are because she thinks you manned up so be it.

But it should be because you are taking care of your family.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Your right...

I think is is also pissed because i told her how much this is going to cost her in child support and taxes over the business. 

She goes.. I'm not worried about you 'cause you will just get a new job and you will be fine. I said I'm not concerned about me, I'm concerned about how much this is going to cost YOU.

She said she understands how much of a burden this is going to be on her but it doesn't matter to her.

I can see her just going bankrupt.

She wants to give me the house.. but I can't take her off the mortgage cause i dont make enough to have my own mortgage. So she is dreaming on that.

She thinks that giving me the house and giving me the business she will not have to pay much for support on the children.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Your right...
> 
> I think is is also pissed because i told her how much this is going to cost her in child support and taxes over the business.
> 
> She goes.. I'm not worried about you 'cause you will just get a new job and you will be fine. I said I'm not concerned about me, I'm concerned about how much this is going to cost YOU.
> 
> She said she understands how much of a burden this is going to be on her but it doesn't matter to her.
> 
> I can see her just going bankrupt.
> 
> *She wants to give me the house.. but I can't take her off the mortgage cause i dont make enough to have my own mortgage. So she is dreaming on that.*
> 
> She thinks that giving me the house and giving me the business she will not have to pay much for support on the children.


She thinks giving you the house and the business will ease her guilt for walking out on you and the girls. Nothing more.

Do not make it easy.

Your wife is a coward sad.

Now man up for you and the girls.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thanks for the positive postings..
> 
> She did just text my daughter to say she was just waking up... at 2pm..
> 
> WTF..


Do you think she purposely texted that, knowing you read your daughter's texts? She knows you're reading them. That was Saturday morning too, right? Oops sorry, afternoon!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She hadn't slept because of her gastritis..

She has no burp reflex.. I used to have to pat her back to get her to burp. She has never been able to sleep when it flares up..

Sometimes I would even be up have to night trying to help her get rid of the gas in her stomach. It was just something I did cause I cared.

Now she has no one to do it. Her roommate is gone for the week and i just don't see her roommate patting her back like a little kid like i did.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Posse said:


> If I were in your shoes, I would document everything that has happened, file and seek sole custody with reasonable visitation for her.
> 
> Your kids need as much stability as they can get, and they are only going to get that from you. Your wife is incapable of providing anything even remotely approaching stability right now.
> 
> You need to be in a position to protect the kids from your wife's mental problems.
> 
> Your wife is hurting far worse than you are-her train has left the tracks. Nonetheless, allowing her to live with no accountability for her actions is not in your, her, and ESPECIALLY your children's best interests.
> 
> She is the one with the big problems, not you.


I totally agree with this!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

If she moves back to the house, I strongly believe that will ONLY be because of financial reasons. She sounds horribly confused and selfish. She's thinking ONLY of herself.

What in the world did you do that has her so pissed off? Just because you asked the Salesman to go to her, and you happened to comment something (a compliment) on FB that she didn't like? That's such a petty argument and such a sorry excuse to use to actually LEAVE a family! 

As far as your financial situation, you're running a pizzeria! YOU, not her. That takes a lot of work, and it's income for the family. So why is she upset about finances? What does SHE do to bring in money? 

I actually don't understand why she wants to separate, and what has her so upset with you. Did she discuss in any detail WHAT her problems in the marriage actually are?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

She's wrong about child support. Even if you got the house and whatever else, she's still required to pay child support.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She said it was because of years of broken promises. That I never really tried to make things better for the family or myself and that she can't trust me.

She says we have gone over this time and time again and she is sick of it and got enough balls to leave this time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I said abandoned in our meeting on Saturday... she said she had no choice.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She also asked me to fix her car again before it goes to the emissions test.

I keep thinking she still wants me to take care of her and she is trying to see if i will..


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She said it was because of years of broken promises. That I never really tried to make things better for the family or myself and that she can't trust me.


What did _she _ever say SHE could do to make things better for the family? 

It sounds like you have been an active participant in your children's activities. She has not. You have a pizzeria you're running. She opted out of it last year. How is SHE an active participant in the marriage, and as a parent? What responsibility in the breakdown of the marriage is SHE taking?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She also asked me to fix her car again before it goes to the emissions test.
> 
> I keep thinking she still wants me to take care of her and she is trying to see if i will..


You NEED to tell her that's her responsibility to take care of that herself. Tell her to be a big girl. If you want to be a sucker, do it. If you want to be a man who respects himself, do NOT do it. 

You sent the sales guy over to her that day, and she saw that as weakness on your part. If you go fix her car again, you're being that same weak guy in her eyes. She'll never have respect for you. Plus she's messed up in the head anyway to be doing all this, NOT sending money for the children, not seeing them hardly at all, not doing a damn thing than to party all night and wake up at 2pm and expect everyone to cater to HER. She sounds like a wonderful person. </sarcasm>


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did notice in the spring months she basically sat on the couch watching NETFLIX. She never came to skating and only did when I got upset about it. Very really did we go for walks together. Many times she would be home from work at 3 and when I got home at 7:30 she wouldn't even have anything made for supper. She was just on the couch.

Then when her dad died everything came crashing down. I told her that in the meeting and she said very little about it which showed me she was hurt more then she was telling me.

This wasn't one sided.. she just focuses on my broken promises ( getting us a better house, fixing up the one we have, getting a better job and not just settling for what I had)... etc.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think she was partying since there was no one around to party with. They all went up north to a wedding all weekend...

I get your point though.

But then again she seems like she still wants me to take care of her. I should trade off work on her car for a date night or something.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> But then again she seems like she still wants me to take care of her. I should trade off work on her car for a date night or something.


Why would you do that?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Why would she keep asking me to do things for her?

'Cause I's safe or a sucker? 'Cause she know I can do those things for her.

Maybe 'cause she still cares?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Because she can't do it herself. She has no money.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has money now.. 'cause she is working full days most of the time and not paying anything to me. She offered me money on Saturday but I refused since I asked.. and she didn't offer/


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Has what she has done changed your feelings about her in any way?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No it hasn't . It makes me want to take care of her more..

GRRRRR and it makes me fell stupid.

Not taking care of her is what I did in the marriage, so not taking care of her while she is gone just backs up what I did before...

Does that make sense?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Yes, that does make sense.

The thing that concerns me though is, what did she ever do to take care of YOU?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is true.. besides feeding me, and making sure my clothes were clean, she really stopped with any moral support for me. She didn't want me racing this year. She had a bad feeling about it.

I do think she had this planned for a few months.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Something like this doesn't happen just overnight. 

What's your plan of action next? School is coming up really soon for the kids and she needs to be responsible in helping pay for their clothes, food and supplies, right now she's responsible. 

How likely do you feel she'll move back in with you?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now I feel like she isn't....

She is just so angry with me.. she says she is happier without me in her life. 

I already told her that I will need money for back to school stuff.

I'm wondering if I should let her take them for that or have her give me the money ad i will do it with them..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Right now I feel like she isn't....
> 
> She is just so angry with me.. she says she is happier without me in her life.
> 
> I already told her that I will need money for back to school stuff.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should let her take them for that or have her give me the money ad i will do it with them..


Sad,

Time to get Mad!!!!

It is time to take your life back. 

And burn the damn Tarot cards while you are at it.

HM64


----------



## daybyday26

Hang in there Sadwithtwolittlegirls I agree with last few comments in this post. I think as hard as it is you shouldnt help her out.


----------



## ScottH454

Not sure how far into it you are now, but can you just cut her off completely until the courts handle how you two should handle it. I mean you've tried doing it your way an haven't got anywhere, so give her what she wants an cut her off. No contact, no asking her for anything not even money for support. If she is angry you keeping at her would just keep her angry. Let her have a few weeks without her past so she can miss what she had. Doesn't sound like she will the rate your going.
There is thousands of posts on her telling people to back off in your situation or you'll keep pushing them away, you still aren't following any advice. You need to leave her alone while your still a few weeks in before it's to late an you pushed to far for her to come back. I didn't listen an pushed mine away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Mine told me it's over tonight.. so I told her she doesn't get the kids this weekend or again until I get a signed visitation agreement and the cars insurance is done tomorrow night.

I told her to get a lawyer.

She was supposed to take the kids this weekend, but now they are going to my parents house.

I told if she wants to be on her own.. here it is..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Mine told me it's over tonight.. so I told her she doesn't get the kids this weekend or again until I get a signed visitation agreement and the cars insurance is done tomorrow night.
> 
> I told her to get a lawyer.
> 
> She was supposed to take the kids this weekend, but now they are going to my parents house.
> 
> I told if she wants to be on her own.. here it is..


Are you feeling Mad yet Sad?

You should be.

Your wife has had this planned all along.

WAW= Walk Away Wife.

Read about it on google and get ready to fight.

Go see your attorney now.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm pissed....
I found her journal last night.. she has been planning this for a year..

She is not getting the kids until I see a visitation schedule and child support.. screw her.. this has been 3 weeks of bullcrap.. and tonight I told her it's done


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm pissed....
> I found her journal last night.. she has been planning this for a year..
> 
> She is not getting the kids until I see a visitation schedule and child support.. screw her.. this has been 3 weeks of bullcrap.. and tonight I told her it's done


I told you that you did not have the whole story.

You really need to go see an attorney. I understand $$$ are tight but your wife has walked away scott free.

She needs to feel consequences for her actions. Not to make her come back but for her to accept that she has responsibilities.

Time to use your anger constructively.

Anything else in the journal???


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm thinking about getting a car dolly and towing the car home.. since she won't have insurance she has no need for the car anymore.. I'll leave her bike at work so she can ride it to her new home.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't know if she read the letter. She responded from another e-mail account she has, not the one I sent the letter too.
> 
> She sent me a link to a job posting since I was thinking about getting back into the HR field after running our restaurant for the past year and a half.
> 
> "wasn't sure if you are still trying to find another job, thought you might be interested in this......"
> 
> that was it..


You should have responed, "wasn't sure if you are still trying to find another family, thought you might be interested in this" and attached a picture of all four of you during better times.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sent her flowers today.. she gave them away and said I embarrassed her in front of her peers at work.

That was the last draw.. gloves are off now..

No kids until there is an agreement.. told the kids too that they probably won't see mommy for a while.

She gave me her address but i think it will be more fun to get her served at work


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm thinking about getting a car dolly and towing the car home.. since she won't have insurance she has no need for the car anymore.. I'll leave her bike at work so she can ride it to her new home.


That is the wrong way to show anger.

Go see your attorney.

File for legal S. I think you cannot file for D right away?

Get a child visitation plan approved.

Get child support payments approved.

Force her to grow up, get a full time job and be a good Mom.

That is the right way to focus your anger.

Do not waste the money to tow her car.

Just do the right thing. Spiteful actions are just a waste of time and effort.
*
Take the necessary actions to improve your life and your girls lives.*


----------



## 06Daddio08

You need to read the last 3-4 pages on my thread.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

But if I'm taking her off the insurance.. the car will be at her house just sitting and I'm liable..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have read that it is a shared asset and I should keep it insured since it's her primary mode of transportation..

I should just sign the damn car over to her and let her look after getting it insured and stuff..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Update:

Since I last posted.. I pulled her off the insurance ( she had the car flat towed and left on my lawn)

I have filled out the paperwork for custody and child support. Filling tomorrow after attending and information session.

I told her last week she wasn't having the kids until I get a parental visitation schedule.. I backed down a bit since the kids really miss her. I sent her an e-mail at work to ask her if she would like to see the kids on Saturday for the day. I don't need to go into court and have her say that I didn't let her see the kids.

I have printed off all of the e-mails between us and have filed them with my court papers so I have everything in order for the court date.

I'm still sad.. but I have a good friend I met on this board that chats with me all the time keeping my spirits up.

I went to the doctor to renew my antidepressants ... he asked if he had any concerns.. I sad no..

He sad they haven't come up with a pill that works as good as time..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just asked her if she wanted to see the kids on Saturday. She said she wanted them in the afternoon so she could work on her car she bought in the morning.

I asked her if she would rather work on her car then to see her she said no.

I said if they have to sit and watch you work on your car with whoever then they are staying home.

She then said that she will keep them until Sunday evening. 

I said no. You will have them from 9am to 8:30 PM on Saturday.

She finally agreed. I told her she can pick them up at the local park and to come alone or there was no deal.


----------



## happyman64

Sad

Keep moving forward.

I think it is good you took control.

Get the papers filed.

Good Luck

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It sucks but I need to rake control...

She told me that she will be seeing a lawyer... I think she needs too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

If she's been planning this for a year - has she secreted money away some place?


----------



## Conrad

Shaggy said:


> If she's been planning this for a year - has she secreted money away some place?


Sounds like she has.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Actually no... she is struggling.. too F-ing bad.

I went in to file for custody and child support today. I talked to the duty council for advice.

I have to get some more of my financial records in order before I have her served. After she is served it will be 6 weeks to see the judge. She owns 50% of my pizzeria so i want that income added to her current jobs income.

The lawyer did advise me to make an emergency motion for custody and child support right now using her present income.. then when we go to work in 6 weeks make an amendment to include the pizzeria income.

I can also get the payment retro-active to the day she left in June.

I'm gonna file the emergency motion on Monday.


----------



## happyman64

Good Sad.

That is ewhat I mean by moving forward.

Take control.

She planned her departure. She expected a cake walk.

None of this situation is easy, it is quite sad.

Protect yourself and your girls.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am not going for spousal support. 

The difference in her income will be $180 a month extra child support when I add in the pizzeria.

She was not pleased after my letter yesterday.

I will post it below with her response.

---------------------------------------------------------------

will make arrangements with Graham to pay for the tax return. I will be consulting a legal professional. This is the reply you seem to require



Subject: Paperwork for Custody
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:20:23 -0400


On August 17, 2012 I will be filing with the court the paperwork required for custody and a request for child support with the courts in Chatham/Kent.

As required by law I will provide you with duplicates of all of the paperwork I have submitted which will includes my requests.

In my paperwork I have declined mediation and asked to be seen by a judge. At this moment I will be representing myself. I do have a successful advocate for Males in Divorce waiting to assist me if needed during our time in court.

You will need to get your financial documents together. You can get a copy of your letters of assessment through Graham C***** in Bothwell. He said he can print them for you.

I will submit the P****'s paperwork for the taxes to be completed by Graham ***** when he returns from vacation on September 1st. This will include both year end financial statements from P****'s with you as the 100% owner and P***s after the partnership with you as a 50% owner. You will need to submit to Graham your T-4 from T****.

I will also request from Wendy the financial documents stating the Gross profit of P****'s the Friday before our scheduled court date. You own 50% of Picasso's therefore 50% of the gross profit will be added to your 2012 earnings when determining the amount for child support under the government guidelines. In my documentation I have asked for the Government Tabled amount based on your yearly income. This will include your T*****y income Plus your P****'s income for the 2012 year. An estimate of the total gross amount earned at year end will be determined and used in the calculations. You can use this link below to determine the amount below.

Justice Canada - Child Support Online Lookup

You will need to bring your paystubs to court to verify your income. Your payments are also based on the last three years of your gross income so you will need letters of assessments back to 2009 to be safe. Graham said he can print those for you. This is law.. not what i am asking for. I have documentation i have to provide also.

You will be responsible to make arrangement for paying Graham yourself for your tax return.

I will not be submitting for a separation agreement yet. I will create the list of assets and liabilities and will be submitting for a court ordered settlement regarding these items at a later date.

Before we go to court we need to agree on a visitation schedule. If not there is a long process involved using the courts to determine the schedule.

You will be responsible for 50% of the court costs involve in our case.

You need to respond to the e-mail for my records.

I have sent this two the three e-mail address that I know of to be sure you receive this.

Jason*****


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

From what I hear from a friend that works with her.. her best friend had to meet her in the bathroom after she got the letter from me..

I don't think she realized what she is in for.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm done playing games....

Now it's gloves off time


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think so either..

the tough part will be splitting up the income from the pizzeria.


----------



## happyman64

What WS's your wife's response to your email? 

Did she respond or was she too busy crying in the bathroom?

Nice email by the way.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This was her response:

"will make arrangements with Graham to pay for the tax return. I will be consulting a legal professional. This is the reply you seem to require"

I am filling out the court papers tonight.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well here is my affidavit

On July 17, 2012, ****** left the matrimonial home and took up residence at 79 *** Ave, ******, ON. 

Lisa **** left the children in the care of their father Jason ***** from that time.

Between the July 12, 2012 and the time of submission, there has been no talk between either party of reconciliation.

Between July 17, 2012 and time of this submission, Lisa ******s total time spent with the children equals 17.25 hours. 

Lisa **** contribution since July 17, 2012 to the care of the children has amounted to a total of $65.00 that was received by Jason **** on August 16, 2012 through a bank transfer into a joint bank account owned by Jason ***** and Lisa **** at the CIBC. A copy of this document has been included in this submission.


----------



## Shaggy

Remove your names from the posting - way too much personal info

but - good for you not letting her string you along while she does whatever she wants.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Forgot about the names... thanks..

Now it's getting serious..

One of the girls that work's for me has a husband that works with Lisa..

I asked him.. if i give you $25 would you serve her for me... he said " sure "

ha ha ha ha ha

So Tuesday she is getting served at work.. LOL LOL


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had someone say... hey... since she is getting 50% of the income from the business added to her income at her other job... that would make her make more than you by about 10 000 a year.

Why not go for spousal support.... ?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When the taxes are done for the business I will be putting in for 50% of all the extra.. dental/medical/clothing/school supplies.. etc..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

New forms are done... got someone to serve her.. things are looking positive. Tuesday morning she will get served and we can get things rolling.

Today the kids are seeing their mother completely on my terms. I set the time and place for meeting and the times for return.

I am finally in control.. about friggin time.


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

You are in control. But you can only control your own actions and reactions.

Not your wife's.

I think you are doing great so far.

Stay firm.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I dropped the kids off this morning ..

I parked at the other end of the parking lot so I didn't have to talk to her. I had the kids run to her. 

I figured i don't really need to talk to her until we get in front of a judge...


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I dropped the kids off this morning ..
> 
> I parked at the other end of the parking lot so I didn't have to talk to her. I had the kids run to her.
> 
> I figured i don't really need to talk to her until we get in front of a judge...


whatever works for you is ok.

Let us know how she drops off the kids to you.

That will be interesting.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm going to be five minutes late so I can park away from her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I parked the truck at the other end of the parking lot again and the kids hugged her and ran over to me.

I figure this is the best way for me to deal with this.

She just got in her car and drove away.


----------



## happyman64

Good J.

That is the best you can do.

Did the kids at least enjoy being with her ?

Did she spend quality time with them?

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

They said they had a great time withe her and asked if they could sleep over next time. I said we would talk about it.

I didn't want much details of their day.. only wanted to know that they had a good time. 

I was shaking uncontrollably when I went to pick them up. It has only been 6 weeks and I still feel very vulnerable so I figured I don't need to even try to talk to her.

I have held firm on the NC for the past 2 weeks since we met last to talk and only contacted her with the e-mails above letting her know I'm going ahead with litigation.

Hopefully tomorrow or Tuesday she will get served ( if I can get it signed and sealed at the courthouse).

Until them I'm not gonna be in any contact with her.


----------



## happyman64

i think that is a wise course of action.

Stay firm and take care of the kids.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It still sucks. Cause I just wish non if this even happened
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It still sucks. Cause I just wish non if this even happened
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course it sucks. You did not ask for this.

Have you ever been given a real honest reason why your wife Walked out the door?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Not really.

She has said that I didn't live up to my promises. WTF does that mean? 

She has treated me like $hit for years and I am finding out that I can and should be treated better then what she was giving me.

I just think she was looking for any reason to justify leaving. 

Not much I can do now other than fight her in court.

She has wanted mediation probably because being in the same room would allow her to manipulate me.

She did not like that i said you will stand in front of a judge. 

That takes her control away. Time for her to learn.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She hasn't said anything.. She told me she left the kids so that I would have a reason to go on..

That is bull$hit... she had no where to take them.

I'm going for sole... not joint..

She says I hold the kids hostage from her become I can not have her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not going to give it to her.. she will have to be awarded it.

That is one of the reasons I asked to see a judge..


----------



## aug

Your post in another thread:



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Mine did in the first year of marriage. We were married for 1 years afterwards. My wife had an affair with my brother.
> 
> I managed to forgive and forget about it even though we are separated now over a separate issues.
> 
> You can do it..if you really want to .



She's too messed up.

She never was in the marriage.

Good that you're protecting your kids.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

Aug is right Sad.

Your wife has issues. They are not your issues nor can you help her with them.

And any spouse that can mess around aith another's family member is the lowest of the low.

She is damaged goods Sad.

Protect the girls. Protect yourself, make the changes that will make you happy.

And find a good woman that has morals and will love only you and your girls.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

well... off to file the temporary motion with the court.


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> From what I hear from a friend that works with her.. her best friend had to meet her in the bathroom after she got the letter from me..
> 
> I don't think she realized what she is in for.


No kidding?? Good!!! I'm sure that letter shocked her! She has NO idea!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I had someone say... hey... since she is getting 50% of the income from the business added to her income at her other job... that would make her make more than you by about 10 000 a year.
> 
> *Why not go for spousal support.... *?


Exactly!!!


----------



## foreverheartbroken

happyman64 said:


> And any spouse that can mess around aith another's family member is the lowest of the low.
> 
> She is damaged goods Sad.
> 
> Protect the girls. Protect yourself, make the changes that will make you happy.
> 
> And find a good woman that has morals and will love only you and your girls.


Yes, exactly this.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well the lawyer on Friday gave me bad advice so I had the wrong paperwork with me to file... 

So now I have to go back in tomorrow with the correct paperwork


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. got the correct paper work completed..

I wrote Lisa a letter to go with her served papers just to rattle her chains..
_____________________________________________________

Dear Lisa:

You are now in possession of the documents needed for the upcoming court case regarding custody and child support. I have submitted these documents even though the taxes aren’t complete so that a date can be set and we can move to the case conference sooner than later. 

In the Form 8 Application I have currently only asked for the tabled amount based on your current pay at T*****. This is only temporary.

If the taxes are done before we move attend the Case Conference. I will be bringing up at Case Conference that there is extra income to be included in determining the tabled amount of child support. 

I will then be filing a motion to have the extra income included as well as seeking extraordinary expenses. Also I will ask that the child support payment be made retroactive to the date of separation.

As for custody, I will be seeking Sole Custody of the children.

You now have 30 days from the time you were served to respond to these documents with the court. 

It would be best if you attend your MIP before we meet at the case conference.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I guarantee she has done zero research on what is coming up and has no idea what I am talking about. That is why I left MIP ( mandatory information program) on there so she will actually have to do some research.


----------



## happyman64

Keep going J.

And you are right your wife is clueless.

But do not worry, she will read her Tarot cards and they will tell her the next step. 

Sorry you are going through this buddy.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You are so right.. I'm on top of my game right now learning all about family law and my rights.

I'm not going down without a fight that is for sure..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I paid a guy $40 and she got served today..... 

It is actually a huge burden off my shoulders and now I'm in control of what happens next.

It just sucks that tomorrow wold have been out 14th wedding anniversary and Thursday I turn 40 

But at least I have a court date.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I paid a guy $40 and she got served today.....
> 
> It is actually a huge burden off my shoulders and now I'm in control of what happens next.
> 
> It just sucks that tomorrow wold have been out 14th wedding anniversary and Thursday I turn 40
> 
> But at least I have a court date.


It could be worse. You could have served her on your anniversary or on your birthday.

Just think of the message either of those days would have sent to her brain???


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was gonna do that but I thought I just wanted it done today.

She hasn't responded to my e-mail so I know she is really pissed at me..

Too bad.. time to face up to what you have done..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was gonna do that but I thought I just wanted it done today.
> 
> She hasn't responded to my e-mail so I know she is really pissed at me..
> 
> Too bad.. time to face up to what you have done..


Forget about emailing her. Just go dark unless it is about legal matters or your girls.

She will contact you when she is ready. If she is angry then tell her to contact you once she has calmed down.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Ya.. it was just about legal stuff.

I know how hard it was to find someone to serve her.. I can't imagine what it will take when she tried to serve me with a response..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Ya.. it was just about legal stuff.

I know how hard it was to find someone to serve her.. I can't imagine what it will take when she tried to serve me with a response..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

well.. today would have been our 14th anniversary

Yesterday I felt liberated by getting her served. Today I'm a blubbering mess trying to hold myself together.

I know this is the best for me and the girls.. but I still miss her.

I will get through this and my 40th B-day tomorrow.. 

Today I am just reflecting and the 16 years we had together and mourning the marriage that wasn't to be.


----------



## happyman64

Thinking of you Sad and reminding that life will get better.

Once she is out of it or comes to her senses.

I do not think your wife has all her mental faculties working at all with her past decisions as evidence.

I know this is hard for you and the girls but make life better for them and you.

You deserve better!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know that.. I truly due.. but walking away from 16 years just baffles me.

I'm gonna hang out with some friends tonight.. and maybe take myself out for supper tomorrow night for my birthday.

I could really use some time to get out.


----------



## Sbrown

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know that.. I truly due.. but walking away from 16 years just baffles me.
> 
> I'm gonna hang out with some friends tonight.. and maybe take myself out for supper tomorrow night for my birthday.
> 
> I could really use some time to get out.


That mentality baffles me. The time together should have NO bearing on whether or not a person stays. My thought is 'Ive wasted xx years on her and I wont waste another minute!" Would you really want her to stay just because of the time invested?


----------



## Why Not Be Happy?

Hang in there Sad!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sbrown said:


> That mentality baffles me. The time together should have NO bearing on whether or not a person stays. My thought is 'Ive wasted xx years on her and I wont waste another minute!" Would you really want her to stay just because of the time invested?


No.. but i should have at least be giving the chance to fix it.. nit just have her check out


----------



## Sbrown

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> No.. but i should have at least be giving the chance to fix it.. nit just have her check out


Fix what? You don't really blame yourself for her leaving do you? Im going to be blunt, the woman appears to be bat **** CRAZY! I doubt you contributed to that. THIS IS ON HER!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Maybe.. maybe not...

It is her life and she can do what she wants I guess.

I just hate that the kids are gonna have to get used to her "new" life and my "new" life... 

I didn't even want a divorce so i am forced into starting over.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. I made it through what would have been my anniversary (August 22) and my 40th Birthday (August 23)..

I didn't hear a word from Lisa (didn't expect I would)...but I guess I thought maybe she would at least say Happy B-day, but that would get in the way of her being "Free"..

Anyways.. now it's smooth sailing and she has 28 days left until she has to serve me with a response to the court papers or it goes uncontested.


----------



## Sbrown

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. I made it through what would have been my anniversary (August 22) and my 40th Birthday (August 23)..
> 
> *I didn't hear a word from Lisa (didn't expect I would)...but I guess I thought maybe she would at least say Happy B-day, but that would get in the way of her being "Free"..
> *
> Anyways.. now it's smooth sailing and she has 28 days left until she has to serve me with a response to the court papers or it goes uncontested.


Read this statement to yourself. Contradictory?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

omg.. you are so right.. I guess i did expect a happy B-day... that's what that says


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> omg.. you are so right.. I guess i did expect a happy B-day... that's what that says


Stop expecting anything from her Sad.

As soon as you can do that moving on will be so much easier to comprehend and act on.

It is you and the girls. There is nothing wrong with that.

Listen to that song "Someone that I used to know".

That is how you are going to feel a year from now.

Indifferent.

Happy B-Day by the way Buddy! I wish I was 40 again.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. she sent me an e-mail :

I would like to see the children this coming weekend Aug 31 to Sep 2. Also I would like you to ask them to go through their school things and write a list of the things they already have so I can buy them some things while they are with me

I wrote back..

You have been a deadbeat on child support yet I'm suppose to let you have the children whenever you want. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?

Now I know under the law I can't not allow her visitation.. but for almost 8 weeks I haven't got a dime in support.

I'm not sure what to do... Maybe only let her have the girls 1 day like last time.... 

Support and custody are two different things under the law.. but heck.. I have to look after the girls myself and I sure would like some support. She has been able to keep her pay checks for the past 7 weeks and we don't go to court until October.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. she sent me an e-mail :
> 
> I would like to see the children this coming weekend Aug 31 to Sep 2. Also I would like you to ask them to go through their school things and write a list of the things they already have so I can buy them some things while they are with me
> 
> I wrote back..
> 
> You have been a deadbeat on child support yet I'm suppose to let you have the children whenever you want. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?
> 
> Now I know under the law I can't not allow her visitation.. but for almost 8 weeks I haven't got a dime in support.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do... Maybe only let her have the girls 1 day like last time....
> 
> Support and custody are two different things under the law.. but heck.. I have to look after the girls myself and I sure would like some support. She has been able to keep her pay checks for the past 7 weeks and we don't go to court until October.


Sad,

Do not keep the kids from her, especially regarding $$$.

She should help you, document that she is not for your hearing in October.

My two cents, let her have the girls and give her a list of supplies.

I know the situation sucks but at least she expresses a desire to see the girls.

Just make sure she has a place for them to sleep and she can feed them.

HM64


----------



## spun

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. she sent me an e-mail :
> 
> I would like to see the children this coming weekend Aug 31 to Sep 2. Also I would like you to ask them to go through their school things and write a list of the things they already have so I can buy them some things while they are with me
> 
> I wrote back..
> 
> You have been a deadbeat on child support yet I'm suppose to let you have the children whenever you want. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?
> 
> Now I know under the law I can't not allow her visitation.. but for almost 8 weeks I haven't got a dime in support.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do... Maybe only let her have the girls 1 day like last time....
> 
> Support and custody are two different things under the law.. but heck.. I have to look after the girls myself and I sure would like some support. She has been able to keep her pay checks for the past 7 weeks and we don't go to court until October.


I wouldn't stir the pot with unnecessary verbiage going from here on forward. It justifies her view that you are insensitive and deserved walking away from.

A simple "I'm not ok with you seeing the kids whenever you choose as long as you choose to sidestep your financial responsibility for their care".


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Instead of the whole weekend... how about just 1 day again.

She has lots of money for back to school shopping.. but nothing to give me for their care.. WTF..


----------



## Sbrown

Forget the child support until the D. She will most likely have to pay back support until the d was filed. She is giving you notice and unless you already have plans for them, let her have them and plan a weekend for yourself.


----------



## happyman64

Sad

Listen to the crew. They are right.

Just think of your kids and do not give her any reason that she can use against you.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

.... ok... 

I'm not feeling good about this.. 

I guess her not responding is also not a good thing either..


----------



## happyman64

tdwal said:


> Believe it or not, she could call the authorities and have you arrested for depriving her of access. That wouldn't look good. No matter how you feel. You need to make it right.


TD is right.

Just respond, confirm the dates and say a list of supplies will be sent with the girls.


----------



## happyman64

Oh Yeah!

Plan to have some fun. Do not mope around.

You deserve time off. I have 3 girls so I know you deserve some time off.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I wrote her to tell her that I will allow visitation but I wasn't sure how long I would let them stay. I told her i would think about it and get back to her.

I said that I thought it was interesting that she had money for back to school shopping yet no money for every day support of the children. I have to roll coins while she keeps all of her paychecks.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My mom is super pissed... she doesn't think she should have the kids.. but does agree they need time with her.

She told me to get her to give me the money she was gonna spend on back to school stuff and give it to me to buy groceries instead . The kids really don't need anything .

WOW... my mom is really upset about the fact that Lisa isn't contributing to the care of the children.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not taking my moms advice.

The problem here is that for 16 years Lisa has always got her way.. Jason would jump when Lisa said jump.

That is stopping now.. I will let her have the children but it will be on my terms.. not hers.

I did tell her that I was surprised she had money for back to school shopping but no money for the daily care of the children. I think I have the right to ask that questions.

I might only let them stay over Friday night and pick them up Saturday night.. I don't know about a whole weekend..


----------



## Sbrown

tdwal said:


> Believe it or not, she could call the authorities and have you arrested for depriving her of access. That wouldn't look good. No matter how you feel. You need to make it right.


WOW, they must have some messed up laws in MN, in most every other state (granted OP is in Canada) it is a civil matter and the police will not get involved. ESPECIALLY without any court ordered visitation.

Not to mention, in very few states can anyone be "taken to the cleaners" it is a split 50/50 most of the time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That's the thing.. I have no court ordered visitation... 

The mean thing is control. She had control for our entire marriage. I NEED to be in control through the entire divorce proceedings my my own healing.


----------



## Sbrown

Relax, you're in control. She sent you an email asking PERMISSION to see the children. SHE ASKED YOU! 

Forget the child support, just keep your cool and document. In any communication with her, you should NEVER show emotion. You are cold as ice. Nothing upsets you! She asks in advance to see the children, let her, IF you don't have plans already.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will probably limit her to one sleep over and one day until I get court ordered visitation.

I'm comfortable with the Friday until Sunday thing.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

that would suck.... 

I won't let it get that bad.. but she will only get them on my terms.. not hers..

I'm not playing her games anymore.


----------



## C3156

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. she sent me an e-mail :
> 
> I would like to see the children this coming weekend Aug 31 to Sep 2. Also I would like you to ask them to go through their school things and write a list of the things they already have so I can buy them some things while they are with me
> 
> I wrote back..
> 
> You have been a deadbeat on child support yet I'm suppose to let you have the children whenever you want. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?
> 
> Now I know under the law I can't not allow her visitation.. but for almost 8 weeks I haven't got a dime in support.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do... Maybe only let her have the girls 1 day like last time....
> 
> Support and custody are two different things under the law.. but heck.. I have to look after the girls myself and I sure would like some support. She has been able to keep her pay checks for the past 7 weeks and we don't go to court until October.


Do you have an official custody agreement? If not, she has just as much right, as a parent, to see the children as you do. As much as it sucks, you need to let go of the notion that you can control the access to your children simply because you want to. It will come back to bite you in the butt (read as: in court). Only if you are granted sole custody by a judge, then you get to control how much access your stbx can have.

Take the higher road and show your girls how adults should act and let them spend some time with their mother. It's not fair, nothing in life is, but he the bigger person.

Right now, you should be documenting everything your do for your children, how well they are doing even though mom walked out, and how your stbx continues to not support the children. This will be vital for you in court. Learn your states statutes and work on building your case for the best possible outcome. 

Save the nasty/snide remarks for after the court process is completed. Let the No Contact rule be your friend, no discussion with the stbx unless about the children.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't talk to her at all. This is the first time we have talked in two weeks. She didn't even respond to the E-mail after I had her served.

I have nothing to say to her..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't talk to her at all. This is the first time we have talked in two weeks. She didn't even respond to the E-mail after I had her served.
> 
> I have nothing to say to her..


Sad 

I know you are still hurt. Just keep all your interaction with her clean until you get to court.

You have no choice with the way your wife is acting.

It is quite "scary" the way she has walked out.

We have seen it before, it is not easy to deal with but you are doing great so far. Very admirable as a matter of fact.

Keep going.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you..

I guess I should update you on how "I" am doing..

Since I lost 30 lbs since she left I decided to take a healthier lifestyle.
I gave up pop, eating fruits and veggies for my snacks..

and the shocker... I took up running. Last night I went out with my friends who are runners and finished my first 5K run (3.11 miles for my US friends). I have never run in my life and managed to only be 4 minutes off my friends time on my first time out.. they say I'm a natural.

So on September 30 I'm running in my first 5K event..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thank you..
> 
> I guess I should update you on how "I" am doing..
> 
> Since I lost 30 lbs since she left I decided to take a healthier lifestyle.
> I gave up pop, eating fruits and veggies for my snacks..
> 
> and the shocker... I took up running. Last night I went out with my friends who are runners and finished my first 5K run (3.11 miles for my US friends). I have never run in my life and managed to only be 4 minutes off my friends time on my first time out.. they say I'm a natural.
> 
> So on September 30 I'm running in my first 5K event..


That is just awesome. I am a former runner in my day, ran in HS and in college.

Ran the NY marathon a few times too and did well.

Enjoy it. There is nothing like getting out there and it is a great way to meet people (chicks) while staying in shape.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Today... I hurt really bad... but this time not because of Lisa... my legs feel like they want to fall off.. LOL

I'll take leg pain over heartbreak any day.

I have gone 2 nights that I have slept through the night. That is a good sign for me. The anxiety is almost completely gone.. I did start to shake when Lisa messaged me about the kids.. but that was more me being pissed off then anything else.

I feel better, I got new glasses, growing a goatee that everyone loves and got a hair cut. Since very few of my clothes fit anymore, I'm going clothes shopping. I'm also having a custom suit made for my first day in court.

I'm going into court looking like Mr. GQ... proud and confident.

I might joining the local running club to get out and meet new people.

I'm signing u for the tough mudder and spartan competitions next year.

Every since my 40th b-day last Thursday, I said it's time to step things up a notch..


----------



## C3156

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Today... I hurt really bad... but this time not because of Lisa... my legs feel like they want to fall off.. LOL


It will get better as you run more.




Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm going into court looking like Mr. GQ... proud and confident.
> 
> I might joining the local running club to get out and meet new people.
> 
> I'm signing u for the tough mudder and spartan competitions next year.


Awesome, that is the attitude. I am looking forward to the local tough mudder myself.


----------



## WhereAmI

When you word your email allowing visitation give her only the time you want and claim that the rest of the time won't work because of previous plans. Tell her you'd like for her to see the children more often and ask for her to notify you when she would like the children a week (or whatever) in advance. It won't hurt to apologize for being short either. 

"Hey ____. Sorry for being short in my last email. You can have the children on 00/00/00 from 0:00 to 0:00. I would like to accommodate you further, but previous plans make that impossible. I genuinely want to encourage your relationship with the children. In the future, if you could notify me a week (or whatever) in advance it would be appreciated."

There's NO room to mess up when it comes to your children. You need it to seem like you're doing everything possible to encourage her relationship with them and that SHE is failing miserably.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhereAmI

Oh, and don't send her the list. Don't even mention it. She's trying to control you in a subtle way. I'm sure she can look up what they need online or contact their teachers. Let her figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jugger

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I do agree... but after her dad died I saw her attitude change. I mentioned maybe she was depressed and she went off the handle. She was estranged from her dad since she was 14.. but always hoped one day he would call. He never did. He never saw his little girl get married or met either of his grandkids.


I had my father die and it became kind of a point in my and fiances relationship, having a some what ambiguous parent doesn't make the loss of one easier, it makes it more difficult because of all the "what Ifs" and "could haves." I truely wish you the best of luck moving forward


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

WhereAmI said:


> "Hey ____. Sorry for being short in my last email. You can have the children on 00/00/00 from 0:00 to 0:00. I would like to accommodate you further, but previous plans make that impossible. I genuinely want to encourage your relationship with the children. In the future, if you could notify me a week (or whatever) in advance it would be appreciated."
> 
> There's NO room to mess up when it comes to your children. You need it to seem like you're doing everything possible to encourage her relationship with them and that SHE is failing miserably.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very good advice!

I don't know how things differ in Canada from America, but do be careful so that in the end, you have primary custody. The sound of her email makes me wonder if she's had advice from an attorney--it might have been a "test" for you...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It got really heated this morning. I said she could see the children but there was the issue of support for the children that still needed to be adressed..

She said she has got everything caught up and now can start helping.. I asked her " what about last month" While she was having a good time keeping her paycheck I had to roll coins to pay the bills and feed the kids.

I also reminded her that she completely missed her youngests 8th birthday and how that will look towards her character in court.

She doesn't ask about the children, she doesn't call the children.. she only says things to them when she has them. And maybe a text or two to her oldest.

I reminded her that in Canada you can not get a new sticker if you owe back child support. By the time we go to court she will be three or four months behind.

Her sticker will be up in March and she will not get a new sticker until she is caught up on the court ordered child support when it is court ordered.

She stopped responding..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. Lisa decided she doesn't want to answer e-mails.. that's fine..

Anyways.. I met someone.. 

We went on a date last night that ended up lasting 10 hours.. we went for dinner, a movie, walked on the beach and sang to songs on her laptop as we drove around at 2am.

She has been through the same thing as me.

I didn't kiss her but I held her hand and listened to her talk. She is beautiful, has kids, is successful.

We both talked today and said we want things really slow. 

I really came to realization that my wife treated me like crap for 16 years. I missed the fun, the companionship and the company.

I told her up front that I am not interested in sex, that I will only give that up if we end up in a commitment and some time goes past.

I want to know her.. not her body.

She agreed and was happy about my honesty.

I really think I had a eureka moment. I gave and gave and gave and got crapped on for years and years. It is time for me to be happy, time for me to deserve a good woman that cares about me.

I want this divorce done now.. but it will be at least a year.

I want to be rid of this burden, to be rid of her.

I will let you guys know how it goes. It has been two months and I actually feel free from her grip on me. My heart said, let go .. you are free to be you. I love it.

I have so many of you on here to thanks for my recovery..

I don't want Lisa to come back.. I want her to stay gone forever. 

I am *HAPPYWITHTWOLITTLEGIRLS*


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If it wasn't for my support group on here and in my close family group I wold never be here... I won't have had her served, I wouldn't be getting out and meeting people.

I would have been still crying on my couch begging a deadbeat, crap giving wife to come home..


----------



## happyman64

Sad

Good for you. You deserve to be happy.

Take it slow and take care of business.

You will find better.

Never settle......

HM64


----------



## TroubledSexLife

I am so sorry that you are going through this.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

it's all good now...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. time to let people know what has happened since September.

Well we went to court in October. I didn't have a lawyer so i represented myself. I got visitation set up with the court, and she got a court order to get her taxes and other paperwork done.

I successfully argued to not allow her overnight access since she rents a room from a single girl. The courts agreed and she only got them on Saturdays from 9am to 8:30 pm.

we went to court again in November. She did not fullfill the court order and the judge handed her her ass on a platter. I actually felt bad for her. Once again I represented myself and got more orders for her to get her stuff in order. Remanded until Dec.

First week of Dec.. we both go back to court. Neither of us had lawyers.. I was very planned to answer to the court. We both made arguments for custody of the children.

At the end of the arguments the judge said to the two of us. "You are the only two parents these kids have. Sit down and talk it out and figure out where your going with this. I'm not gonna make an order."

Lisa and I looked at each other... and as we walked out of court she put her arms through mine and said "lets go for coffee".

She said that we didn't need to do this. I asked her why... she was the one that left...I thought she wanted a divorce?

We went and had coffee. She said she wanted a break.. not a divorce. She was angry with me and was dealing with her dad dying when she left. By September she realized she still wanted to be with me and the girls.

when I served her divorce papers in August I crushed her. She cried our entire anniversary which was the day after I served her and was sad that she missed my 40th b-day on Aug 23. 

She thought i was trying to crush her in court....which is what i was trying to do. Isn't that what everyone does in court?

I spent hours learning the family court laws. Had binders of evidence... practiced what i was gonna say to the judge to a co-worker.. I was ready.

After 3 hours of having coffee I took her back to her car. We hugged for about 5 minutes. we agreed to go to marriage counseling.

She spent the next few Saturdays together with the kids. she has come for supper and watched movies and yesterday her and I spent half the day alone grocery shopping etc. 

She will not move back to the house until we go to marriage counseling. We are going to try and sell this house in the spring and start a new life together in a new home.

We have not kissed, I held her figure in the truck. She is staying at her other house for now. 

I did not plan this but it really worked out.

I had ZERO contact from August until December. She heard I was going on coffee dates and it hurt her. None of my dates turned into anything but a night having coffee. She didn't date and was asked by a lot of guy to go on dates. She just said she wasn't ready for it.

Every time I went on a coffee date I always compared them to Lisa and could never find it... I guess there was a reason for that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.. Lisa decided she doesn't want to answer e-mails.. that's fine..
> 
> Anyways.. I met someone..
> 
> We went on a date last night that ended up lasting 10 hours.. we went for dinner, a movie, walked on the beach and sang to songs on her laptop as we drove around at 2am.
> 
> She has been through the same thing as me.
> 
> I didn't kiss her but I held her hand and listened to her talk. She is beautiful, has kids, is successful.
> 
> We both talked today and said we want things really slow.
> 
> I really came to realization that my wife treated me like crap for 16 years. I missed the fun, the companionship and the company.
> 
> I told her up front that I am not interested in sex, that I will only give that up if we end up in a commitment and some time goes past.
> 
> I want to know her.. not her body.
> 
> She agreed and was happy about my honesty.
> 
> I really think I had a eureka moment. I gave and gave and gave and got crapped on for years and years. It is time for me to be happy, time for me to deserve a good woman that cares about me.
> 
> I want this divorce done now.. but it will be at least a year.
> 
> I want to be rid of this burden, to be rid of her.
> 
> I will let you guys know how it goes. It has been two months and I actually feel free from her grip on me. My heart said, let go .. you are free to be you. I love it.
> 
> I have so many of you on here to thanks for my recovery..
> 
> I don't want Lisa to come back.. I want her to stay gone forever.
> 
> I am *HAPPYWITHTWOLITTLEGIRLS*


BTW.. this one turned into a weirdo. Two days after this post she had our wedding planned. I ran like the wind. I think I was just happy to have company.. not happy to be with her.


----------



## happyman64

Wow Sad.

Funny because I was thinking of you and your kids when I was in church this week.

I figured I was going to jiggle your thread for an update and here is your post.

I am glad you guys are reconciling. And you both do need a good MC.

Truly hope this works out for you and Lisa. Definitely get the MCing scheduled. Do not let her back out.

Glad you and Lisa are reconnecting.

Maybe my prayers were answered for you???

Keep us posted.

HM64


----------



## 06Daddio08

It sounds like you have a solid and level head on those shoulders now.

Very happy for you.

Good luck to both of you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The tough thing is that i had to say nasty things in court to get my side across and that still upsets her.

we both had people saying crap and untrue stories to each of us that was driving a wedge between us further and further.

We have been talking and getting lots of it out in the open. I can't believe what people tell people.

Since neither of us talked to each other we could only go off of what we are told. Sometimes that is worse.


----------



## HiRoad

Sad, soo happy to hear good news on here. many of us are going through a tough time this xmas. Glad to hear there is some positive out there.

Just goes to show that giving them what they want is not always really what they think it is all cracked up to be. 

I myself am going on 2 months of NC, hard as he!!. But it is keeping my sanity. W/ kids makes it tuff. 

Good to hear your news and be consistent w/ 180 and distance.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is a killer with NC.

Turns out she spent a lot of time wondering what i was doing and thinking of me. If i would have kept talking to her she never would have had the time to miss me.

It gets easier but I never stopped missing her.

I found out so much info in the last few weeks. She thought I was having an affair with a classmate back in 2009 which was untrue. she held onto that one for years and never said anything. 

Its funny how open things get when you finally sit down and talk.


----------



## HiRoad

> It is a killer with NC.
> 
> Turns out she spent a lot of time wondering what i was doing and thinking of me. If i would have kept talking to her she never would have had the time to miss me.


This is soo true! Although NC is hard as he!! and you FEEL you need to contact STBX, DONT! How long were you in NC? 

Good job on sticking it out for YOU!:smthumbup:


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was in NC for 3 months except for e-mail to do with the children or court.

There was no talking in person between August 17 and Dec. 3

It really sucked. She initiated our first conversation in Dec.


----------



## HiRoad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was in NC for 3 months except for e-mail to do with the children or court.
> 
> There was no talking in person between August 17 and Dec. 3
> 
> It really sucked. She initiated our first conversation in Dec.


WOW! I am a little over halfway there. She only texts me, and when she does it is about kids only! I let her intiate all contact with me! 

We have not talked in person aside from kid exchanges and even then it is maybe 45 secs of convo. Crazy! 

Yes it really sux, and to say it is hard as he!! is an understatement. Feelings are a weird thing, will give you the illusion that you NEED to talk to STBXW!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

DO NOT TEXT....

Only talk by e-mail. It makes it less formal and you are able to print it easier for court.

Our kid exchange was parking across from each other and the kids run from one car to another. Neither of us got out or talked. This was hard on her as it gave her no actual contact close to me. To make it even more worse I used to pretend I was texting during the exchange. I made sure my phone was up so she could see it. This made her wonder what i was planning for the day... I normally didn't have anything but it kept me in her mind.


----------



## HiRoad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> DO NOT TEXT....
> 
> Only talk by e-mail. It makes it less formal and you are able to print it easier for court.
> 
> Our kid exchange was parking across from each other and the kids run from one car to another. Neither of us got out or talked. This was hard on her as it gave her no actual contact close to me. To make it even more worse I used to pretend I was texting during the exchange. I made sure my phone was up so she could see it. This made her wonder what i was planning for the day... I normally didn't have anything but it kept me in her mind.


i like that, maybe i will switch from text to email. 

LOL, i also instituted kid exchanges in the starbucks parking lot!! We unload the kids and load them in her car and thats it really. I too, make sure i am on my phone!!! So funny!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I exchanged it in a lit parking lot at a park. 

I made it informal, I parked a few spots away. In the beginning I would park at one end and her at eh other. After our first court date I parked about 3 or 4 away from her. I always had my door facing hers so that she could see me. 

In your e-mails never say anything other than facts. I used to reference my court orders if i had to in my e-mails. If something swayed from the court documents I would reference the order in order to show i was following the order to the letter of it.

I filled a binder with E-mails for use in court if I had to. I also have a folder in my E-mail inbox the i keep every bit of correspondence in .

The nice times are gone for you at this moment. You need to be a robot that only talks when spoken to.


----------



## HiRoad

YES, a robot, LOL! 

I too am begining to compile everything into a binder for reference. This is a good idea! My STBXW has no idea what she is doing, very much living in the present with no thought of her future. She is being VERY selfish with her time, $$$, and kids.

She is wrecking ball right now.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was prepped by an advocate for males in divorce.

You need a few binders. You need everything in duplicate. One for you and one for a lawyer.

I have a a binder that holds court orders, financial statements, timeline of events.

You need to have a calendar and write down every time you communicate and every time there is a kid exchange, every time there is a mean e-mail or text.

the key for me was to show up in court completely prepared. I had all of my documents tagged to rebut any and all of her answers to my application. I had writing out my supporting documentation and practiced it over and over again.

She said i scared the living crap out of her in court with how prepared I was. She came in and my binders where all laid out on the table ready to go. She thought I was out to crush her. what else do you do in court?


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

I am happy for you--I have followed your thread from this summer. How are your girls reacting? It sounded as if she did not see them very often after leaving.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The girls don't know about us getting back together. We don't touch each other around them. we are letting the kids be kids and keeping them out of this.

She had court ordered visitation every Saturday from 9am until 8:30 pm. She only saw them 4 days a month.


----------



## K.C.

Great you are both being careful with the kids. Heartfelt best wishes for you, truly hope you get the relationship you want from it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Unfortunately I needed a tune up. I do see now how she tried to improve things and i didn't get the signals as most men don't.

I actually told her that this break up was good for both of us. I needed to take responsibility seriously in our marriage and needed to find who I was and what i was capable of.

This was good for me even though I lost my wife for 5 months.


----------



## HiRoad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was prepped by an advocate for males in divorce.
> 
> You need a few binders. You need everything in duplicate. One for you and one for a lawyer.
> 
> I have a a binder that holds court orders, financial statements, timeline of events.
> 
> You need to have a calendar and write down every time you communicate and every time there is a kid exchange, every time there is a mean e-mail or text.
> 
> the key for me was to show up in court completely prepared. I had all of my documents tagged to rebut any and all of her answers to my application. I had writing out my supporting documentation and practiced it over and over again.
> 
> She said i scared the living crap out of her in court with how prepared I was. She came in and my binders where all laid out on the table ready to go. She thought I was out to crush her. what else do you do in court?


This is good to know information. Sad, your absolutely right , what else do you do in court, fight for your rights! In auditing we always have source documents to validate our results. I will treat this no different! 

This will be easy since my W is a scatter brain and extemely disorganized.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My got the hint really quick when i started putting in my e-mails that i needed a response to go in my notes for my lawyer. Then the bull stopped in all of our conversations as she knew i was tracking it.


----------



## HiRoad

And now you are in the middle of a R?? What made her change her mind?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She said she was thinking about it in October. When she was standing in court with me in Dec. She said she looked over and thought to herself "this is not what I want" and approached me after court to talk.


----------



## HiRoad

WOW! Was she the one who left and/or initiated the D?


----------



## Wazza

Such a turn around. Amazing, and well done.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She left and she is the one that initiated the R.

I went on with my life like she was never coming home and that was the best way to deal with it.


----------



## HiRoad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She left and she is the one that initiated the R.
> 
> I went on with my life like she was never coming home and that was the best way to deal with it.


I hope more people read your posts and threads. THis is exactly why the 180 and NC is soo vital. Whatever the result.

It really is the best way to deal with it.

Your post re-affirms that i must move on with the NC and 180, even with the holidays comming up. I was going to reach out to her, but now i know that would be a bad idea. 

I did want to be a scrooge for xmas, but she has made it that way.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If you would have asked me when she first left if these strategies worked I would have said your full of crap.

When i finally embraced the strategies and put them into use is when i started to grow as a person.

I still didn't sleep well or didn't miss her but i did live my life like she was never coming home. In the end that is what worked the best.


----------



## HiRoad

She left two little girls, as said in your name?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes.. she left an 8 and 12 year old girl with me.


----------



## HiRoad

damn, my STBXW and I are splitting time between a 3 and 1.5 yr old. I really think she has lost her mind.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

stand your ground. It is tough


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It is a killer with NC.
> 
> Turns out she spent a lot of time wondering what i was doing and thinking of me. If i would have kept talking to her she never would have had the time to miss me.
> 
> It gets easier but I never stopped missing her.
> 
> I found out so much info in the last few weeks. She thought I was having an affair with a classmate back in 2009 which was untrue. she held onto that one for years and never said anything.
> 
> Its funny how open things get when you finally sit down and talk.


But remember she shunned contact from you. So I think absence made her heart grow fonder in your case.


----------



## happyman64

And no matter what Sad you are a good man that deserves better.

I hope your can deliver.

Any changes with the job or pizza place???


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Looking for a new job then going to buy a new home for us to start a new life together.

I am still in the pizzeria as it is all I have right now. Lisa actually helped in the pizzeria kitchen last Friday night. It was something she hadn't done in almost 2 years. She said she couldn't believe how you can just remember how to make pizza.. LOL


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Looking for a new job then going to buy a new home for us to start a new life together.
> 
> I am still in the pizzeria as it is all I have right now. Lisa actually helped in the pizzeria kitchen last Friday night. It was something she hadn't done in almost 2 years. *She said she couldn't believe how you can just remember how to make pizza.. *LOL


Wow Sad! She really must have missed you.

I am glad she has woken up. ANd I am happy how independent you have become with your girls.

I think you needed the time apart just as much as her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

we both needed that time apart...


----------



## HiRoad

How long were u married for?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Married 14 years, together 16 years


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well the last few weeks have been good.

I asked her if she wanted to stay at the house during Christmas. I would sleep on the couch and she could have our bed upstairs.

She said she will not stay at the house.. at least in the nearest future. 

I told her I had no agenda.. and she was scared I was trying to get sex. I let her know that is the farthest thing from my mind. 

She said we just need to go slow.

I dropped the whole subject and just accept the fact she will go back and forth between her house in the city and here. Not really a big deal I guess... I just hoped she would be up Christmas morning with the kids..


----------



## happyman64

One day at a time Sad. Patience.

K.I.S.S.

God forbid her Husband thinks of sex with her???

But I understand her side of it too.

I am glad you guys are talking, communication on a deeper level and spending time together.

Just remember all these months apart. What you accomplished as a single Dad!

And put that new man and those lessons learned into your "new" marriage going foward.

Merry Xmas SW2LG's....

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It blew her mind when we went grocery shopping and I knew everything the kids needed and took the lead and grabbed everything. 

she actually told me that she figured I wouldn't last more than a few months with the kids on my own before she would have to take them . I really surprised her but it pissed me off that she thought I would not be able to care for my own kids.

We have only held hands once ( if you want to include me holding her finger as hold hands) and haven't cuddled on the couch. She is still keeping her distance. Maybe because I think she thinks that any physical activity might be a hint that she wants sex... 

She now hugs me instead of me having to hug her. That is progress.

I'm like a little kid waiting for her to come to the house for Christmas ...


----------



## happyman64

It is all good Sad.

Be calm, patient and yourself.

Have a great Xmas Buddy.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Christmas was good.. i bought all of the presents but put her name on the ones from me.

She did not stay at the house. She says she isn't ready to stay here even if i don't have any hidden agendas. She really thinks that I expect sex.. No thanks.. it's been almost 6 months.. I think I can wait.. LOL

This New Years was the first one we didn't spend together in 16 years. She was terribly sick. On the Saturday before the New Years I had to pull over when i drove her home so she could throw up. It was nasty.

She went with me to my brothers on the Sunday and my brother and family welcomed her back open arms. She was still pretty sick and ended up curled up in a chair. Blood vessels break on her face when she throws up.. the poor girl was covered in red dots.. 

She worked on the 31st then went home and slept.. then slept all of the 1st... I was sad but when your sick.. your sick.

We spend every saturday and sunday together even though she goes home at night.

She is starting to say "we" when she talks about things with us. That is nice 

Next weekend she is staying her at the house with the girls while I'm in Michigan racing. It will be the first time she has slept her since July 16, 2012. 

Her roomate is being an ass. She is telling Lisa she is out of her mind and is being rude to Lisa. I can tell in her voice that she isn't happy with her roommate.. but since the roommate owns the house.. what can she do. right? I told her to come home but she wants to wait until we go to counseling.

I also said that of course her roommate would want us back together because she would be losing half of her mortgage payment.

It is weird now because now we both have our own bank accounts now and split things up when we are at walmart into hers and mine. It is weird.. but I don't see us pooling our money again.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Christmas was good.. i bought all of the presents but put her name on the ones from me.
> 
> She did not stay at the house. She says she isn't ready to stay here even if i don't have any hidden agendas. She really thinks that I expect sex.. No thanks.. it's been almost 6 months.. I think I can wait.. LOL
> 
> This New Years was the first one we didn't spend together in 16 years. She was terribly sick. On the Saturday before the New Years I had to pull over when i drove her home so she could throw up. It was nasty.
> 
> She went with me to my brothers on the Sunday and my brother and family welcomed her back open arms. She was still pretty sick and ended up curled up in a chair. Blood vessels break on her face when she throws up.. the poor girl was covered in red dots..
> 
> She worked on the 31st then went home and slept.. then slept all of the 1st... I was sad but when your sick.. your sick.
> 
> We spend every saturday and sunday together even though she goes home at night.
> 
> She is starting to say "we" when she talks about things with us. That is nice
> 
> Next weekend she is staying her at the house with the girls while I'm in Michigan racing. It will be the first time she has slept her since July 16, 2012.
> 
> Her roomate is being an ass. She is telling Lisa she is out of her mind and is being rude to Lisa. I can tell in her voice that she isn't happy with her roommate.. but since the roommate owns the house.. what can she do. right? I told her to come home but she wants to wait until we go to counseling.
> 
> I also said that of course her roommate would want us back together because she would be losing half of her mortgage payment.
> 
> It is weird now because now we both have our own bank accounts now and split things up when we are at walmart into hers and mine. It is weird.. but I don't see us pooling our money again.


We keep our money separate and have an agreed approach who pays for what. That aside we do what we want. It works well for us.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I guess that will be what happens from now on.. the bonus is that i can now buy her a gift without her knowing how much I spent


----------



## RAN

Any updates


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yesterday I filed the court Brief so the judge knows what we are going to talk about. 

Lisa says she is happy with how things are going so I'm not going to change anything. She is gonna stay at the house Friday night while I'm racing in Michigan and then taking the kids to a friends house for a sleepover Saturday night. We are meeting up on Sunday when I get home from racing and then having supper together.

We are going out on a date tonight. It;s funny to think that I am scared to even try to hold her hand. 

On Jan 17 it will be 6 months since we split. It has been a month since we decided to work things out.


----------



## GTdad

Okay, I probably suck for bringing this up, but I do think it's something you should consider:

It's not terribly uncommon for a Leaving Spouse to seek a "reconcilliation" when they they find themselves on the losing end of the divorce process. They have it in mind to reset the game, and start the process again at some later date when they're better prepared and have a better idea of how formidible their opponent (you) is.

I'd submit that it's _possible_ that your wife realized she was going to get clobbered on custody/child support, and is going to seek a "do over" at some point in the probably near future, at which time she'll bring her A game to the process.

I don't want to be a buzzkill; if this R is real then I'm very happy for you. I'd just advise keeping your eyes open.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She did tell me that I was clobbering her in court. 

I have already asked her... " are you coming back because you are 5 months behind in child support and you knew you owed a few thousand to me?"

She said no... 

She said I thought you were trying to destroy me in court. I told her i was cause people don't go to court to be friendly.

It's all been out on the table already.

Marriage counseling will be quite interesting

Trust me.. all of the


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. Lisa stayed at the house last weekend while i was in Michigan racing. She said it was weird but had the girls sleep with her in our old bed. 

This weekend she came on Saturday morning and spent the day then stayed over on Saturday night. I slept on the couch and she couch and my youngest curled up in bed with her upstairs.

She is still hesitant to hold my hand or reach out to hug me. It has been 6 weeks since we started talking again.

we had a bit of a heated discussion during the week. I told her she needs to try. She never asks me out to do anything, or texts good night or even text out of the blue. I told her that I though i was doing all the work and i was sick of it. You either want me or you don't.

I'm still in the same boat as when we were split up... paying for everything and being a full time dad while she can shut off being a mom during the week and just be a mom on weekends. She didn't like it but can see my point.

Basically I said.. yes i know you want your girls but I want to be needed and wanted too. I asked her if she thinks about me and she said yes. I told her that i think about her all the time..

I told her it seems like she is just waiting for me to f#ck up so she can say... see i was right for leaving. she said that isn't the case.

I told her that it won't kill her to hold me hand or snuggle with me on the couch.

she actually held my hand while our youngest played in the McDonald's playland.. and she held me hand and I rubbed her feet on the couch yesterday watching movies.

She will not kiss me.. she keep saying not yet.

I guess she is not ready.. i still don't understand women.. LOL

This May will be 17 years since we met and in August will be 15 years married.


----------



## tom67

I guess I'll just have to ask how much longer are you willing to wait for her. Don't go by her words but by her actions. Only you can figure that one out, good luck man.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has been talking a lot about our future. About our next house..etc.

She never was very sexual.. but she does seem to be holding back on the simple things like holding hands and hugs. She still is very distant.

On Wed.. we go to court to cancel the divorce papers that were started.

I said to her last week.. "you know we are going to court on wed and i want to make sure that you really want me.. cause i'm giving up a ton of work i have done in court to make this work and you better not be making me to look like a fool"

She says she is sure about us getting back together just touching me and stuff is weird now since we have been apart for 6 months.

I said people that first date hug and kiss all the time... she said this is different cause people that first date don't have 17 years of history to think about,

does this make sense?


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She has been talking a lot about our future. About our next house..etc.
> 
> She never was very sexual.. but she does seem to be holding back on the simple things like holding hands and hugs. She still is very distant.
> 
> On Wed.. we go to court to cancel the divorce papers that were started.
> 
> I said to her last week.. "you know we are going to court on wed and i want to make sure that you really want me.. cause i'm giving up a ton of work i have done in court to make this work and you better not be making me to look like a fool"
> 
> She says she is sure about us getting back together just touching me and stuff is weird now since we have been apart for 6 months.
> 
> I said people that first date hug and kiss all the time... she said this is different cause people that first date don't have 17 years of history to think about,
> 
> does this make sense?


Hi SWTLG,

By definition, when one of us BS types decides to reconcile with our WS, we are laying our heart out to someone who hurt it before. That is hard to do, and involves risk. On the other hand, the rewards if it works out are worth it.

I'm assuming you know her, and are not totally comfortable with her reactions to things, otherwise you would not be posting what you are posting.

Do you have to cancel the divorce, or can you just put it on ice for a bit? 

If you cancel, and restart later, what have you lost?

Does going ahead with the divorce end all hope or reconciliation?

I don't know what the legal implications are, but from a relationship point of view it does sound like you have some work to do.


----------



## tom67

Is she really putting forth any effort? Think about it before cancelling the divorce that's all.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

So who is the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

There is no OM... 

We are waiting to get her tax return ( she did it very late last year) so we can get subsidized marriage counseling. She keeps saying that she can't wait to get into counseling so we can find some way to deal with our issues.

If I don't stop the process i don't see how we could reconcile. 

The big thing was that said was that she was mad about how I treated her in court, I stressed to her that you not in court to be friends..you are in court to win. 

I told her to get over what happened in court because i was doing what i felt was right for my girls. everything before the break up is fair game for discussion.. but court was court.

I almost think she has gotten used to being on her own. I know it is weird having her here for extended time. It has been six months that we both have been on our own.


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

You are right.

Court is court. She walked and you were protecting yourself and the girls. She needs to understand this.

And both of you need to continue to exercise patience.

She needs to get the feelings back for you and you do understand that she was independent. 

But it is time for her to come home and start being your wife and a fulltime Mom again.

Patience.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I have been thinking about court so i thought i would pose a question to her.

I told her that I still love her.. but she has not told me.

I texted her this " Do you love me?"

She replied "Yes"

I wish she would tell me face to face...

Should I let her know that she needs to show me (kisses,hug and holding hands) that she is wanting to be with me or just let this run it's course.


----------



## spun

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I have been thinking about court so i thought i would pose a question to her.
> 
> I told her that I still love her.. but she has not told me.
> 
> I texted her this " Do you love me?"
> 
> She replied "Yes"
> 
> I wish she would tell me face to face...
> 
> Should I let her know that she needs to show me (kisses,hug and holding hands) that she is wanting to be with me or just let this run it's course.


Reconciliation after a long separation is slow process not matter what.

She seems freaked out, which seems a perfectly healthy response if you ask me.

The two of you have been to the edge.

Take it slow, be compassionate, and respect that everyone moves at their own pace.

Pressuring is scary and unattractive.

At this point, its kind of like you are trying to get a bird to eat out of your hand.

But, by all means stick to your boundaries and do not be a doormat.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I have been thinking about court so i thought i would pose a question to her.
> 
> I told her that I still love her.. but she has not told me.
> 
> I texted her this " Do you love me?"
> 
> She replied "Yes"
> 
> I wish she would tell me face to face...
> 
> Should I let her know that she needs to show me (kisses,hug and holding hands) that she is wanting to be with me or just let this run it's course.


Just for me I couldn't be in this limbo that much longer. Ask her when is she moving back in? Tell her you love her but you aren't going to wait around for eternity.


----------



## tom67

I'll bet if some other women showed you some attention her attitude would change right away jmo.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She doesn't want to move back in the house. If i find a full time job ( and sell the pizzeria) she would like me to move the girls and me into the city she is in. 

then we could work on the house we have right now while we are not living in it and sell it. 

She said there is too many bad memories of our house from the last 15 years and would like our new life to have a fresh start.

It will suck uprooting the kid but I do agree that the life we had in our little town was getting stale and it is a 35 minute drive to get most things.

She loves this farm just outside of the city that would give me a garage (that i don't have) a pool ( that i don't have) and our fresh new life.

I know it sounds like she is manipulating me.. but in a way I would like to start fresh too.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She doesn't want to move back in the house. If i find a full time job ( and sell the pizzeria) she would like me to move the girls and me into the city she is in.
> 
> then we could work on the house we have right now while we are not living in it and sell it.
> 
> She said there is too many bad memories of our house from the last 15 years and would like our new life to have a fresh start.
> 
> It will suck uprooting the kid but I do agree that the life we had in our little town was getting stale and it is a 35 minute drive to get most things.
> 
> She loves this farm just outside of the city that would give me a garage (that i don't have) a pool ( that i don't have) and our fresh new life.
> 
> I know it sounds like she is manipulating me.. but in a way I would like to start fresh too.


How far away is it?

Could you move there now and still run the pizzeria for a while?

In your shoes I think reconciling is what you want and you should take the risk and go for it, but I also think you should have a plan for the scenario where it falls apart.

One of the results of my wife's affair is that I will never take our marriage for granted again, and that includes not willingly accepting a situation where I am financially dependent on her. We separated our bank accounts many years ago and we keep them separate. We share bills and handle money with good will, but we keep things separate.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was pissed off on Sunday when she left to see a friend instead of staying to spend the day with me and the kids. She stayed over Saturday night ( i slept on the couch) and was gone by 11am Sunday morning.

I told her that I feel that i might have jumped the gun on ending the divorce proceedings cause she is not really trying..


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was pissed off on Sunday when she left to see a friend instead of staying to spend the day with me and the kids. She stayed over Saturday night ( i slept on the couch) and was gone by 11am Sunday morning.
> 
> I told her that I feel that i might have jumped the gun on ending the divorce proceedings cause she is not really trying..


And what did she have to say about that? Like it is said here, if your gut is telling you something is wrong well.... just sayin.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

we just had a big talk on the phone about that. I told her that her week away from the kids she is free to see her friends but her weekend should be me and the kids. She did agree on how it would be upsetting to me.

I told her to think about us ( the girls and me).

We actually got a ton more out in the open today. Each time we talk it seems to get better and better. The bitterness is fading.

I told her that she will need to get used to me asking the hard questions instead of bottling it up inside then exploding ( more of what she does.. not me)

I told her that I want to know FOR SURE that when i stand in front of the judge on Wed that I'm not making a wrong decision about dropping the divorce proceeding. She told me that in her heart she feels that we will work it out.


----------



## happyman64

Sad,

Keep it simple.

If you truly love your wife and forgive her put the D on hold.

And I will say it again.

Patience.

You are right but you have to rebuild your feelings for each other as well as the trust.

And you know what? The move sounds like a good idea as long as it is affordable.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well last Friday we went out with friends and had a great time. I dropped her off at home and she came to the house on saturday around noon.

That night i asked her if I good sleep beside her in bed. She said she wasn't ready yet. I told her it wasn't for sex.. just for sleeping.. still a no. I slept on the couch again (which i am used to since i have been sleeping there for 7 months now)

We did cuddle a bit on the couch and i rubbed her feet but she will not kiss me.

It has almost been 2 months since R, you would think I could at least get a kiss.

We were looking together at houses online and started to make a plan to get our debt under control. I guess that is a good sign.

She stayed until around 8 pm Sunday which is the longest time she has spent with us.

The other issue i am dealing with is that so many people stop me and voice their opinions. They say I am blind to the red flags that are flying over her head. I'm getting tired of them.. but I try to be polite and let them tell me anyways.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well last Friday we went out with friends and had a great time. I dropped her off at home and she came to the house on saturday around noon.
> 
> That night i asked her if I good sleep beside her in bed. She said she wasn't ready yet. I told her it wasn't for sex.. just for sleeping.. still a no. I slept on the couch again (which i am used to since i have been sleeping there for 7 months now)
> 
> We did cuddle a bit on the couch and i rubbed her feet but she will not kiss me.
> 
> It has almost been 2 months since R, you would think I could at least get a kiss.
> 
> We were looking together at houses online and started to make a plan to get our debt under control. I guess that is a good sign.
> 
> She stayed until around 8 pm Sunday which is the longest time she has spent with us.
> 
> The other issue i am dealing with is that so many people stop me and voice their opinions. They say I am blind to the red flags that are flying over her head. I'm getting tired of them.. but I try to be polite and let them tell me anyways.
> 
> Any suggestions?


How much do you want her back?

When people tell you about the red flags, is it anything you haven't already considered?

I get the impression that you are aware of the risks but think it is worth a try. Therefore out are trying to make the best choices you can in a world where there is no perfect option.

If that is the case, what else can you do?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do want her back. I am enjoying the time we have together. I just don't understand how after 2 months i can't even get a kiss... i barely get a hug.

Can someone be so hurt from our prior life together to take everything extremely slow?

She says we will stay together and I ended the divorce proceeding so what could be her issue to keep us from being intimate?

Is this a girl thing that men don't understand?


----------



## lee101981

Don't think it is a girl thing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdlash

You need to STOP initiating these types of things immediately. It makes you look weak and won't give her the opportunity to be attracted to you. Show her you love her without the affection. Let her see and feel being loved by you without her just thinking all this guy wants is sex. When she feels safe again and loved by you, you will get plenty of sex!


----------



## GTdad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> That night i asked her if I good sleep beside her in bed. She said she wasn't ready yet. I told her it wasn't for sex.. just for sleeping.. still a no. I slept on the couch again (which i am used to since i have been sleeping there for 7 months now)


Okay, f*ck that. It's your bed. You don't need her permission to sleep in it.

You may feel like you need to walk on egg shells to avoid "driving her away again". But you're still a man and a human being, not a puppy. Women might think a puppy is cute, but they don't want to be married to one.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lots of good info.

I feel that if I climb in beside her then she will be pissed off being that I didn't give her time... but then again nothing will happen without me initiating it..very rarely does she ever initiate things..when she does it usually benefits me GREATLY 

I see things getting better and don't want to take a step backwards by doing something dumb.


----------



## DavidWYoung

You are acting like a love sick puppy and not a man! Of course she is going to tell you NO! You really do need to "Go to Walmart and buy some BALLS!"
I am not trying to put you down, I am trying to pull you UP! I did the same STUPID things you are doing and, I regret it EVERY MOMENT of EVERYDAY for the past TWENTY FIVE YEARS!
Divorce this POS.
Start a New Life.
Help your children to become better people.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You don't think this is worth my time and eventually it will fail again?


----------



## jdlash

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You don't think this is worth my time and eventually it will fail again?


She talked you into dropping the divorce and still she is calling the shots. I'm not saying to butt heads, but you need to be a man and not let her dictate the whole situation. Maybe she isn't and your already standing up for yourself. I hope so, or it will never work.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have stood up for a bunch of things. I insisted that she stays with us ALL weekend. She is a medium and does readings so I told her to book them during the week not weekends. 

I haven't pushed the sleeping in the same bed thing as i don't want her to resent things moving too quick.


----------



## happyman64

Patience Sad. Patience.

Do you sleep in the bed when she isn't there?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Nope.. I have been on the couch since she left (7 months). I went and bought a new bed set and remade the bed so she could be comfortable.

I asked her tonight if we could start sleeping in the same bed on the weekend and she said she is seriously considering it. 

I told her we need to step out of our comfort zone if we are to go to the next step


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Nope.. I have been on the couch since she left (7 months). I went and bought a new bed set and remade the bed so she could be comfortable.
> 
> I asked her tonight if we could start sleeping in the same bed on the weekend and she said she is seriously considering it.
> 
> I told her we need to step out of our comfort zone if we are to go to the next step


Good for you...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Out of the blue on Wednesday I sent lisa a text saying I wanted some KFC.. she said I'll bring you some.

SHE NEVER has just came out to see me at the Pizzeria

He had a good chat when she came over. I guess she was missing me and wanted to visit 

She stayed for 3 hours and then went home. It was really nice and I think it shows things are getting better.

While she was here we started looking at places to go on our 15th Anniversary in August.


----------



## HiRoad

Sad, i have been following you thread for a while. 

Remeber the 180 is for you, please do not start pursuing her too much. 

She needs to have her space and so do you. If you feel that at times she is going cold, then do not pursue her. Let her be. 

You act happy and cheerful at all times. 

I understand that the R process can be taxing, but do not loose yourself in the process.

Hope all goes well!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you... I think our distance makes the weekends much more enjoyable.

I treat it like she is long haul trucker and is not available through the week. I have my space and so does she.

It will stay this way for a while and I'm OK with it.


----------



## happyman64

Good for you Sad. Return the favor next week. Spontaneously
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I told her a need a key to her car just in case I ever have to fix it. 

I really needed it cause on Valentines day I'm showing up to her work and filling her car full of heart shaped balloons.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I told her a need a key to her car just in case I ever have to fix it.
> 
> I really needed it cause on Valentines day I'm showing up to her work and filling her car full of heart shaped balloons.


Ok. I think differently than you.

I would do one balloon and a full tank of gas!

You do what she would like.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

she can get her own gas.... LOL


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> she can get her own gas.... LOL


You just made me laugh. Good attitude!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. it has been an interesting few weeks.

We have had a few blow ups.. mostly about how she can be really mean.

We have yet to be intimate as she continues to say she is not ready... we got back together Dec. 4 and now it's the middle of february. Well I guess I will have to be patient. We do sleep in the same bed when she is at the house. She now comes over Friday night and leaves Sunday night. 

She is even helping around the house.. laundry dishes...tidying. 

I found out the hard way that she does not like Valentines day. I was gonna bring her gifts and balloon and put them in her car at work but she turned out had the day off due to lack of work. To ruin it.. her roomate called lisa on the phone to let her know I was in the Parking lot looking for her car. 

Then I met up with her and she gave me $hit for buying her stuff when she told me not to. I thought that was just a woman thing. 

After me getting quite upset and a heated arguement she agreed to being a jerk. She thinks Valentines is just a made up thing to make money for card companies etc. She said if it was any other day she wouldn't have cared.

The night morning I bought her a rose and gave it to her when she came over. I said.. it's not valentines day and I still love you.. here is a nice rose. 

After than we had a nice weekend.

So far she has no plans on coming home.. just doing the weekend thing for now. 

Our communication is better than it ever has been.

One of my close friends did try to convince me that Lisa was still having a relationship with a guy from work that she kissed while we were apart. 

She works in a call center and that is just a big high school atmosphere or dram and rumors. This is the same person that told me Lisa was sleeping with this guy in the summer while we were split. Turns out he tried to get her in bed and she turned him down so he stopped talking to her and went after her close friend who also turned him down. 

Either this person is trying to brag to his friends about something that didn't happen or my friend is trying to ruin my new relationship with my wife. I have no idea. 

What guy would date a woman that spends 3 days a week with her husband and kids? Not many.. that is for sure. I hate rumors.


----------



## happyman64

Sad

Do you feel your relationship has gotten better?

Do you feel your wife is acting more loving towards you and working on a better marriage with you?

Do you think you have any issues from the Past that you need to work on still?

And last question, what is the reason your wife gives you for not being intimate?

Has your job improved? Are you going to sell your business?

Now no more questions, I promise!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My wife just says that she is not ready to be intimate. That is the only thing she has said. I haven't pushed it.

We are more loving. We spend a lot of time cuddling on the couch which is something we didn't do a lot of. We hug more..

We cook together now ( which we never did cause I didn't know how to cook)

The relationship (other than the sex part) is better than it ever was for at least the lat 6 or 7 years. 

I'm still looking for work so I have not sold the business since it is my sole source of income right now.

I don't mind the questions... let them rip.

What does ADT means?

We are still waiting for her tax documents so we can go to MC. Since she filed so late it will be a bit still. I do think it will be much easier because we have discussed so much over the last two months.

The biggest thing that is a barrier is that she clams up and doesn't respond. He father was like that and Lisa didn't speak to him since she was taken away from him when she was 14. For 20 years they never spoke because he ( like her) are too proud to say sorry or that they were wrong in their behaviour. He died last June without ever being able to talk to Lisa about his issues. I reminded her that she could very well have the same relationship with her family if she doesn't recognize that she needs to break this thing she shares with her dad and start taking possession of her mistakes and actions. She needs to recognize when she is not communicating and most important.. recognize when she is being mean.

She agreed and we both hope the counselor can help her through it.


----------



## Conrad

Sad,

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read all the links.

It's about being attractive to her.

I know you have been.

I know you can be.

It will be like a dam bursting if you follow these precepts.


----------



## happyman64

ADT= typo from my darn iPad.

I think your responses show progress. You both have come a long way.

The key is not to stop.

And when it comes to sex, for some people it is not a deal breaker. When I was dating my wife we never had sex. Yes some light petting but she wanted to remain pure until marriage.

It drove me crazy.

She was a virgin until the day after we married. We waited until our honeymoon.

But the reason I mention this is that our relationship was never based on sex. 

So many couples get hung up on sex or lack thereof. For us it has never been an issue.

Give it time and support your wife to get issues straightened out in her head.

Be wary of the work buddies. They are not friends of your marriage.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do agree sex is not the major part.. but i want that last little of bonding with her. We are married... not just dating.


----------



## happyman64

You are married. She is dating.

That is the difference.

Think about it.

But I do see improvement and that is very positive.


----------



## terrence4159

i just read you thread today sad, you have made leaps and bounds and i applaud you for that....but you should have proceded with the D you can always get remarried. i agree with happy you are married she is dating and really really really slow dating and a outside chance she is planning to leave once she gets a move favorable view from the courts (since she abandoned you last time). if she comes back and loving wife once taxs all get paid she will get 50/50 custody


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We had a text talk last night. She says she is really upset and wants to get over her fear of letting me back in emotionally. She said that her fear is if she gives in to her feeling then I will just go back to my old ways.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> We had a text talk last night. She says she is really upset and wants to get over her fear of letting me back in emotionally. She said that her fear is if she gives in to her feeling then I will just go back to my old ways.


Don't let this turn into a report card on you.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> We had a text talk last night. She says she is really upset and wants to get over her fear of letting me back in emotionally. She said that her fear is if she gives in to her feeling then I will just go back to my old ways.


Either she wants to reconcile or she doesn't don't forget you are taking a leap of faith on her also remind her of that. Keep your options open as far as refiling jmo.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is a big step. She has slipped up a few times in the last month about wanting to have a new wedding... I thought that was odd.. but did show me that she really wants to make this work.

I'm giving her time to work her own things out in her head. I can only do so much.

I have told her that she either wants to be with me or she doesn't. She says she wants to be with me.

She disconnected from me when she left.. so i think she is having the hardest time to open up her feelings to me. She will only tell me that she loves me if i ask.

Remember.. she is the one that wanted to get back together


----------



## Conrad

She disconnected well in advance of her physically leaving.

Concentrate on your attractiveness.

Did you read those links?


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> She disconnected well in advance of her physically leaving.
> 
> Concentrate on your attractiveness.
> 
> Did you read those links?


Married man's sex life?


----------



## Conrad

tom67 said:


> Married man's sex life?


It's a good resource. There are others.

The "Man Up and Nice Guy Reference" sticky thread at the top of the Men's Clubhouse is another.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I certainly did go through those links. It was good to see the different sides of the issues.

She did disconnect a few years ago.. I think we both did.

She finds it tough when I call her beautiful. I found some pics of when my oldest was just over a year. Lisa was barely 22. I thinks she looks the same today as she did then. 

I told her i always thought she was beautiful and just as beautiful today as the day I met her just after she turned 18. 

She said i must be going blind. LOL

I said I only have one set of eyes and they show me that she is must beautiful woman I have ever seen. 

She said i'm too sappy. 

I said get used to it because I didn't tell you how beautiful you are and how much I love you for years and I won't make that mistake again.

She says she doesn't know how to deal with it.....


----------



## Conrad

You're kissing her ass.

Not attractive

Give about 2/3 of what you get from her for awhile.

Stop with the "I love you's"


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If you didn't say it for years and she left.. why wouldn't saying it be better than going along the path that caused her to leave?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If you didn't say it for years and she left.. why wouldn't saying it be better than going along the path that caused her to leave?


This is the toughest part.

She's thinking your compliments are inauthentic and you run the risk of smothering her.

Don't overcompensate.

Lead


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is true.. she did say that she is trying to believe that I'm genuine this time.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It is true.. she did say that she is trying to believe that I'm genuine this time.


Don't overdo it.

They always can tell when it comes from a genuine place.


----------



## gbonham77

dont trust her words 100%


----------



## ilou

I'm not saying "go with your gut" but if you had to go with your gut, how do you feel this will play out at this current time and mind-frame?

It'll take time, I know and I understand this isn't an easy question to answer for some but something feels amiss to me (at least from your entries).

Good luck sir.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

the end of another great weekend. She might start staying Friday night till monday morning starting next week.

She was really sick all weekend so it was nice to be able to take care of her. She barely moved from the couch all weekend.

we got along great this weekend.


----------



## happyman64

Good for both of you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I went to a job interview today ( I want to sell my restaurant ) and after I happened to pass Lisa's car as she was heading for lunch.

We called each other and met up at the same place.As I went up to her car she brushed by me saying I'm in a bad mood. Basically don't touch me.

I told her .. I was having a great day after a great interview until you had to be grumpy when I came to give you a hug. She says she didn't sleep well and was grumpy. I said that was no excuse to be like that to me since all i wanted to do was to tell you about how great my interview went.

She said sorry and gave me a little hug and we both left.

She really needs to stop being miserable to the people that care for her... . I didn't deserve that treatment.


----------



## happyman64

Are you sure you know everything going on in her life now?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I went to a job interview today ( I want to sell my restaurant ) and after I happened to pass Lisa's car as she was heading for lunch.
> 
> We called each other and met up at the same place.As I went up to her car she brushed by me saying I'm in a bad mood. Basically don't touch me.
> 
> I told her .. I was having a great day after a great interview until you had to be grumpy when I came to give you a hug. She says she didn't sleep well and was grumpy. I said that was no excuse to be like that to me since all i wanted to do was to tell you about how great my interview went.
> 
> She said sorry and gave me a little hug and we both left.
> 
> She really needs to stop being miserable to the people that care for her... . I didn't deserve that treatment.


Your weekend sounded a bit caretaker/codependent to me.

Are you ok with how she treated you today?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No i am not. I told her that. She seemed sorry after i said that. She says she is having trouble sleeping.

I do know her "friend" is in town and that normally makes her grumpy as she does get cramps. But after 20 years of having it she should be able to work through it and not make other people feel like crap because she is in discomfort.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Are you sure you know everything going on in her life now?


I have that "this doesn't add up feeling" could be nothing.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> No i am not. I told her that. She seemed sorry after i said that.


Very good sign.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She is always crabby during "that time" she always has been.. she just needs to learn to stop being mean as I won't accept that behaviour anymore.

I haven't got a text from her. 

Last week I told her that she needs to be a little more observant to other peoples feeling and start to recognize when she is being mean. I shouldn't have to tell her she is being mean. She should be able to see my reaction as well as get a gut feeling after she speaks that what she said did nothing but make others feel like crap.

She has said it is tough for her to see or feel that way. I told her that she better figure out how to learn to cause I won't put up with it. If she wants me to feel like crap.. I'll make her feel twice as bad just so she can feel the pain herself.


----------



## Conrad

Don't make it high and holy:

Cool

Firm

Dispassionate

"I'm not ok with that treatment" - every time it "happens"


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is what I said today. It is not ok for you to be grumpy with me when i did nothing to warrant it. I wanted to share good news with you and you didn't show any happiness. 

She said it would be good for me.. I said no... good for us.

She said she thinks it would be better for me to gain back some of my confidence. 

That was confusing that she moved it from us to me..


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> That is what I said today. It is not ok for you to be grumpy with me when i did nothing to warrant it. I wanted to share good news with you and you didn't show any happiness.
> 
> ..................
> 
> That was confusing that she moved it from us to me..


That's because you moved it first from you to her.

Look at your first statement - again.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I suppose. She thinks if I get out and work in a new job and actually making some money that I will feel better about myself and our relationship will improve because of it.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I suppose. She thinks if I get out and work in a new job and actually making some money that I will feel better about myself and our relationship will improve because of it.


"You didn't show any happiness"

This is from the Codependent 101 playbook.

Your anticipation of her emotional response - as if her reaction has something to do with you.

Now, her brushing past you and being snappy in a blatant show of disrespect?

You're not ok with that - nor should you ever be.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She sent me a text an hour ago apologizing for lunch today. She felt terrible about it all afternoon. She went home.. had a nap and then text me.

We talked on the phone and she wanted to know all about the interview and the opportunities with it.

She is a very proud woman and finds it hard to say sorry.. so this was a big step for her.

I told her how much I appreciated her apology.


----------



## Conrad

And, now it's over.

(Until next time


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She will get the same response from me next time that I will not stand for that type of behavior.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She will get the same response from me next time that I will not stand for that type of behavior.


And, this represents a pretty radical departure from the "old ways" of doing business.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Very much. I told her on the weekend that if we are going to make this work she is gonna start hearing things as they happen and no suppressing issues until they explode. I told her that I expect the same from her. The two of us not talking is what lead us to our breakup to begin with and I'm not going down that path twice.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Very much. I told her on the weekend that if we are going to make this work she is gonna start hearing things as they happen and no suppressing issues until they explode. I told her that I expect the same from her. The two of us not talking is what lead us to our breakup to begin with and I'm not going down that path twice.


Remember, women interpret restraint as strength.

That's why your boundary enforcement must remain - cool, firm, and dispassionate, as it was in this instance.

That's the right road.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

well...

I got home to find the company I went to an interview with called me twice for a second interview... that is a real bonus. 

She could be on to something. If I'm happy and positive I will project happiness around me. That would make things better..

But... she needs to do the same.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> well...
> 
> I got home to find the company I went to an interview with called me twice for a second interview... that is a real bonus.
> 
> She could be on to something. If I'm happy and positive I will project happiness around me. That would make things better..
> 
> But... she needs to do the same.


Focus on you.

LEAD


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The other thing I'm dealing with is that I'm being switched from one anti-depressant to another. So right now I am at 1/3 of my dosage of 2 weeks ago. Next week I start the new meds.

The hardest thing right now is to keep my emotions in check and to think through the panic attacks I get when my dosage is low. I had a bad one in the middle of the night because of this new job possibility. I can to convince myself that it is only an attack and i will be fine. After about 30 minutes I got back to sleep. Usually I would lose the night sleep after an attack.

Now if I still had the issues of the divorce to deal with I could have had the worst even panic attack. As I remove stressors it is sure easier to deal with my metal issues .....


----------



## Conrad

I'm a pharmacist. If you cannot sleep, diphenhydramine (benadryl) 50mg is a safe way to soothe yourself.

It interacts with nothing else. The only caution is to be careful with it if you're drinking.

It's also very cheap.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just wake up in the middle of the night out of the blue. My anti-depressants cleared it right up. The only issue was the high dosage I was on was known to create heart issues ( Celexa ). 

I have been trying to reassure myself that I will be fine.. the new meds he has me going on (I'm not sure of the name) is suppose to help just as well.

It sucks.... cause I had zero side effects with Celexa but the heart issue worried my doctor so we are changing it.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I just wake up in the middle of the night out of the blue. My anti-depressants cleared it right up. The only issue was the high dosage I was on was known to create heart issues ( Celexa ).
> 
> I have been trying to reassure myself that I will be fine.. the new meds he has me going on (I'm not sure of the name) is suppose to help just as well.
> 
> It sucks.... cause I had zero side effects with Celexa but the heart issue worried my doctor so we are changing it.


How high was your dose?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

60 mg.... The doctor didn't change my dosage while I was going through my divorce as he was worried about my mental state and I was coping well.. I did have to get an ECG and it showed my heart was healthy but if I stayed at that dosage he was going to have me checked every 3 months.

I'm at 20 mg now.. I haven't been this low in 6 years.


----------



## Conrad

I'm a pharmacist.

Lexapro is a more potent version of Celexa.

It's now available as a generic.

Celexa's generic name is "Citalopram"

Lexapro's is "Escitalopram"

Basically, the "es" is the "left side" of the celexa molecule.

The good news is that Lexapro delivers the SAME relief as Celexa at half the dose. It's twice as strong.

30mg of Lexapro can be taken daily with no issues.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'll let you know what he moved me too.

I'm also dealing with low Testosterone but we aren't going with testosterone treatment because of the risk of prostate cancer.. so he is put me on something else to compensate for my low T.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'll let you know what he moved me too.
> 
> I'm also dealing with low Testosterone but we aren't going with testosterone treatment because of the risk of prostate cancer.. so he is put me on something else to compensate for my low T.


How low?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

PM me.. we will talk there..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What a week.. changing meds suck...you get emotional, feeling like crap.

Anyways.. on weds I felt that I was texting her too much so i stopped. I also wanted to see how long it would take for her to respond.

I didn't say anything wed night, and it took until Thursday around 5 before she finally texted me. I kept my answers short.

I could see she was struggling to keep the conversation going. After about an hour of texting she just stopped.

I used to say good morning and good night. I stopped that. I have no idea what time she is coming today to visit us for the weekend. Normally I would have this all planned out ahead of time.

Lets see how this turns out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Great weekend.. we wrote down our plans, how to attack our finances..

I laid it out to her that I can't afford to move the girls and me. There is way to much to do to the house before we can even think about selling..

She will be staying where she is for a while I figure and see us on weekend. 

Today is 3 months since we decided to work it out.


----------



## happyman64

Good. Now stick to those plans and bring your lives back together full circle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

for sure that is the plan. I told her to keep me informed of any changes to the plan so it can go in the book. It is a living document as nothing is ever set in stone in life.

She still is leery about getting intimate so none of that has happened.


----------



## happyman64

Patience Sad.

It is all you can do.

Your wife is really acting like someone abused in the past.

Have you ever thought that?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

she was beat by her step mom as a teen and removed from the house and put with her mom who didn't want her. Her dad only talked to her once since that and that was twenty years. He died last June.

She hasn't talked to her mother in 12 years.

She knows she needs to deal with all of that in therapy


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She knows she needs to deal with all of that in therapy


Big time.

Does she ever admit how miserable she is?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She understands her behaviour and I told her that I will not stand for it.

She is also going through early stages of menopause. She is 35 which is young for it.. but her mom was the same age when it started. 

It makes her moods flip flop. I told her she needs to keep it under control just like i have to with my meds..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> she was beat by her step mom as a teen and removed from the house and put with her mom who didn't want her. Her dad only talked to her once since that and that was twenty years. He died last June.
> 
> She hasn't talked to her mother in 12 years.
> 
> She knows she needs to deal with all of that in therapy


Oh yeah she really needs to deal with that.

And now I know why she left the kids with you.

This is going to take some time Sad.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

it will.. I guess I'm a little impatient


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> it will.. I guess I'm a little impatient


No. You are very patient.

But there is a right way and wrong way to do this.

Encourage her to get professional help.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

right now professional help is not in the budget. 

Hopefully I will get this new job that comes with benefits. Many benefit packages comes with married counseling options. If not at least i will be making enough money to pay for a quality therapist.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> right now professional help is not in the budget.
> 
> Hopefully I will get this new job that comes with benefits. Many benefit packages comes with married counseling options. If not at least i will be making enough money to pay for a quality therapist.


Then that is a goal to work towards. 

When do you find out about the new job?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did the online assessment and now I'm waiting for the second interview. She told me they are really interested in me.. so i hope this works out.

Lisa was talking to me about the need to feel secure. The up and down income of our pizzeria hasn't been able to provide a stable income so have a job she will at least know how much will go in the bank. Also with the benefit she will know that things like medicine and health emergencies won't cripple us.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I did the online assessment and now I'm waiting for the second interview. She told me they are really interested in me.. so i hope this works out.
> 
> Lisa was talking to me about the need to feel secure. The up and down income of our pizzeria hasn't been able to provide a stable income so have a job she will at least know how much will go in the bank. Also with the benefit she will know that things like medicine and health emergencies won't cripple us.


There is nothing wrong with security Sad.

But it starts above that.

Security is when a husband has his wifes back and she has her husbands back no matter how bad life gets.

That is security.

I have been married over 20 years. Know my wife 26 years.

My wife knew me when I was single. I had a lot of money. My wife has known me when I was a millionaire. My wife has known me when I lost mu business to 911 in NY City and lost everything except our house.

My wife has supported me at my highest part of my career as well as through my personal bankruptcy.

Is she stupid? No.

Does she love me unconditionally. Hell yes.

How is that for security my friend???

Do you see the difference?

There is nothing wrong with what your wife wants as far as stability and security.

But in a marriage it starts with each other.

Try discussing that with her.

A relationship takes two.
A marriage takes two.
A family takes two.


HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did... she said " i know I'm being shallow but I like to know the bills will get paid"


----------



## K.C.

There is nothing wrong with that, did she have anything at all to say about emotional stability though?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She is going to talk to her doctor about her early menopause symptoms and see if that is what is affecting her moods...


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She is going to talk to her doctor about her early menopause symptoms and see if that is what is affecting her moods...


What did the doctor say?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She hasn't gone yet...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Signed up for therapy. turns out it is right beside her work. She wants to go alone for awhile then we will go together.

To show her I dont have an agenda to get her into bed I slept on the couch the entire last weekend. I couldn't think of any way to show her that it was the only thing on my mind.

The kids both were at friends on Sunday night for a few hours on Sunday. I stayed on my side of the couch. Didn't touch her.. Just finished watching the Nascar race with her. As soon as it was done she left. I don't think she can sit with me alone. Not quite sure unless she doesn't want to end up in a situation in which she would have to say no to something. I didn't give her the chance to have to say no.

I also have decided that I will not text her anymore. I will just respond to her texts. 

I used to say good morning and goodnight every day. I have decided to stop that.

She left on Sunday night.. we had no contact until this morning. She sent me a message saying" have a good day" I responded with " Thank You" and that is all.

it is March break and both kids are gone all week.. one to a friends and the other to my mothers. I asked her on Sat if she wanted to come over one night and watch movies. She said "no". I let it be.

At that point I decided that she is having WAY too much control over how things are going. I already agreed to no sex. I set up marriage counseling, I cook for her on weekends, me me me me me.

Now I'm going into No Contact mode and forcing her hand. I want to see her side of this.

I have started leaving my cell phone in my Truck Glove Box so I am not responding or texting at work. Now I don't see my phone from 9am until 7pm. It is probably good for me to not text all the time anyways. Lisa and I texted each other over 700 times last month. That is way too much .

What do you guys think of this approach?


----------



## Wazza

I would either have to decide I could live with this forever or have a plan to change it with a timeframe.

I probably would also need to check what she was doing during the week....without telling her.

It's hard to tell whether she has problems to deal with or is just stringing you along. How different is her current behaviour from how she was before you separated? Does that give thou any clues?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Every weekend is getting better. She does very little during the week. She only has a few friends. She has always been like that. Just a few that she lets get close to her. She would text me to watch something she is watching and asks me questions about it.. Usually a Nascar show. I don't think she is playing any games at night. She is WAY too broke.

She is very excited about counseling. She tells me to stop being so paranoid about us breaking up again.

I am gonna see what she does with no contact this week. She knows I'm alone all week.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

well .. it's Thursday.. other than "have a good day" on Tuesday morning.. I haven't heard a thing. She is supposed to come over tomorrow for the weekend and we have to pick up our youngest from Grandma's house then.

I don't know what to think. No Contact sucks.


----------



## bandit.45

How long do you plan to let her have this nice arrangement that she seems to be enjoying while you suffer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> How long do you plan to let her have this nice arrangement that she seems to be enjoying while you suffer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Something has to change here. Like Wazza said see what she does during the week, go pi mode.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Pi Mode?

It seems to be a power struggle. This time I'm not giving in. It will all come out in marriage counseling.

At some point she will have to text or call me to find out about tomorrow. I'm not giving in no matter what.

last week she says I talk to much... so I'm gonna stop talking


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

all hell broke loose last night.

She admitted that she is intellectually attracted to me but not physically attracted

There wil be NO sex and i am free to find it somewhere else if needed. that is OK with her. She says she is not sexually attracted to anyone. She doesn't want to cuddle or hold hands.. just maybe hug once and a while. That is how it's gonna be and she is not gonna change.

If suggested by the counselor for her to go on meds she will not do it no matter what anyone says.


----------



## tdwal

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> all hell broke loose last night.
> 
> She admitted that she is intellectually attracted to me but not physically attracted
> 
> There wil be NO sex and i am free to find it somewhere else if needed. that is OK with her. She says she is not sexually attracted to anyone. She doesn't want to cuddle or hold hands.. just maybe hug once and a while. That is how it's gonna be and she is not gonna change.
> 
> If suggested by the counselor for her to go on meds she will not do it no matter what anyone says.


Back to court.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I told her that last night. She said i need to stop holding it over her.

She said she can't afford counseling now so we are back to square one.


----------



## happyman64

Well I knew that was coming.

So I guess that is one of her reasons for not moving back home.

How do you feel about your wife now Sad?

Could you live in a sexless marriage?

Can you still work on your marriage if she is not willing to work on her individual issues?

I am sure you are angry today but just vent here. Venting at your wife is not going to help the situation.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I really don't know what to think. I'm lost. I put three months into this.. 8 months of separation to have to start the process all over again.

I am 40 and she is 35... that a long time in a sexless marriage.

How could I ever think about going outside the marriage for sex.

1... that is morally wrong..
2.. that is adultery and I would loose my children and marriage without a fight in court. In canada she can get an immediate divorce for adultery


----------



## Laba

I read your whole thread and will be brutally honest now( my opinion only). I am a women and we do think different from men so maybe this insight will help you.

She didn't come back because she loves you. She came back because she saw that you will fry her financially and also she needed a chance to improve her image in her families/friends eyes. The strength she saw you emerge in was too intimidating so consciously or not she is on a mission to take you down again and make you her puppet. 

She has checked out a long time ago and please believe me when I say this - when we women check out, it's in 90% cases for good. I don't know why it's so but that's the way it is.

Please educate yourself in 180 and give yourself a true chance of happiness. Life doesn't end at 40. You are entering possibly the best period of your life, just stop running like a hamster in a wheel trying to save something thats impossible to save.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.... she came down this morning and we had a great big hug. I made breakfast for everyone ( eggs, homefries, bacon....mmmm)

I'm truly in crazy love with this women and I am just going out of my mind.

when she leaves on Sunday I'll do just like i did last week and not talk all week.


----------



## Laba

Please wake up and smell the roses - that love is as one sided as it can get. You are being played and played hard.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes.. I know I am....

Don't really know what to do.

She says she doesn't want anyone else.. she wants me but just doesn't want me sexually.

If everything else is good...... 

I love her company.. i love her intelligence.... we share the same parenting beliefs... 

Do I give up sex for the rest that I like...

Maybe a therapist will make a breakthrough with her.. I don't know.

I should at least give that part a chance.. what is a few months when i'm already 8 months in?

????????

LOST LOST LOST LOST


----------



## Laba

I wish you would understand only one thing - she only sees you as a friend that's it. And obviously she treats you the same way. 
We love our friends but we don't have sex with them. 

I speak from experience about this situation because thats how my marriage ended - I saw my husband as a friend not a man I desire. None of us cheated and we are still best friends and family to each other.

When and if you break free from this hamster wheel and a woman pops up in your life that desires you as a man it might be that then your wife will jump your bones just to "mark territory'' but that will fizzle too after she sees you are back committed to her.

Right now she is a wolf on a hay stack - she doesn't want the hay but doesn't want others to have it too.

You need to find your sanity and give her a right place in your life and thats being a friend and a co-parent she obviously doesn't want to be your wife and that's her right.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I asked her if she found any man attractive. She said it was just like her girl desire shut off. Although she finds man cute.. the thought of sex is disgusts her.

I asked her how long she felt like this.. She said pretty much since our last child was born in 2004. She just went through the moves to "try" and be a wife and do the wifely duty. 

Lots changed after our second child. She says she REALLY wants to find out what is causing this and try to find a repair for it. She wants a technique not pills to do this.

It really doesn't help that she is going through early menopause just like her mother did at 35/36. She even has to go outside in the cold at work because her hot flashes are almost unbearable. 

Basically I told her last night that this case is closed for the rest of the weekend. 

Don't give up on me guys... 

I hope to be starting a new job in a few weeks and maybe I will see whether I'm a chump or we make progress. Right now i work alone everyday and all I have time is to think...

I'm sitting on the other end of the couch on the laptop and she is naturally nosy so I know having me writing a story on here is driving her nuts..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Today has been great.. got a nice hug and kiss. 

We had a great breakfast and have been enjoying movies all day.

We are going grocery shopping later.

We both have big changes coming up. Her job is going to made fulltime and I hopefully will be starting a new career in a top level management position within the next few weeks. 

I hope to be able to consume my time with parenting and my new job. Racing season is coming up. 

We talked last night about having certain parts of our lives separated. 

My racing will be MY thing. Her two close friends at work (women) will be her thing. 

I find it as a good compromise. She asked me to stop being paranoid and know that no one but me on on her mind for a partner. 

She wants her and I to enjoy our small separate lives.

I will say.. to have her open up last night about her lack of libido is HUGE for her in the way of communication. She told me also that she is sad that she can't love me the way I want. She keeps saying how she needs counseling.

I consider our conversation closed until it is needed to be opened up in therapy. I really let her have it last night. I told her that I felt like I was being taken advantage of.. that she pays little or nothing towards the upkeep of the children and that is a part time mom that doesn't have to bare the financial responsibility of a parent. 

She told me that she is trying.. I told her that she said back in August that she was going to find a second job to be able to pay me child support. She said then she would not be able to see anyone. I said feeding your children is way more important that seeing people. I told her that I can pull the e-mail out of my court documents . .... of course she didn't want to see that.

This was all last night.

today has been great and I don't want to step backwards today. Just have a good (though sexless) weekend together.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Well I knew that was coming.
> 
> So I guess that is one of her reasons for not moving back home.
> 
> How do you feel about your wife now Sad?
> 
> Could you live in a sexless marriage?
> 
> Can you still work on your marriage if she is not willing to work on her individual issues?
> 
> I am sure you are angry today but just vent here. Venting at your wife is not going to help the situation.


Sorry Sad kind of saw that coming. I don't know if you saw mr335s story his wife claimed she wanted to be alone then found out later she had an affair with her boss not sayin but there may be a 3rd person.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think she would have agreed to MC if it was gonna come out that she is having an affair. 

I do think she might have had something going on while we were apart but since we were split there really is nothing i can do about that ..


----------



## Laba

Maybe would be handy for you to re-read all of your thread and notice at which moment(that should tell you a lot) she came back in picture ---- COURT, right before child support ruling and the rest....

I am happy that you feel happy at the moment, I hope if works out but doubt it...


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't think she would have agreed to MC if it was gonna come out that she is having an affair.
> 
> I do think she might have had something going on while we were apart but since we were split there really is nothing i can do about that ..


Hasn't felt like sex since 2004 but might have had something going on while you were apart? They cannot both be true. Do you have grounds for reasonable suspicion of there being someone else?

Ok, so if you chose to accept a sexless relationship, why do you live apart? And if you are not living together and not sexually involved, what is it that makes your relationship like a marriage?

And there is no timeframe for this to change. You are planning for separateness and there is no counselling to deal with the sexlessness.

You were StrongWithTwoLittleGirls there for a while but Sad seems to be re-emerging. Think carefully before you accept this status quo.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know... I seem to be going in a circle.

I should at least go through counseling. We did decide on that together.


----------



## tdwal

You are so anxious for this to be true and real that you have let her successfully stop the divorce and get her out of financial difficulty while at the same time be dominant over you and your all back to passive and submissive worried she is going to leave you. Sad this has been one big manipulation and she is your master. This women has cheated on you in the past why would you not consider that she could be doing it again. You are hurting yourself with the delusion that MC can make this all better. MC don't do that the people involved make changes and she already had said that there are things she won't do. Run for the hills, start divorce proceedings. She is not even paying for her children. You got blinders on again Sad.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know... I seem to be going in a circle.
> 
> I should at least go through counseling. We did decide on that together.


"I want to be married to you. But I don't want to live with you. I have not wanted you sexually for a decade and that is not going to change. And we need to plan to have other people in our lives. I am not going to pay my share of child support. And I think you really need counselling about all this."

Hmmm. She's the one with all the problems, proposing solutions most people would find unacceptable, and yet it is you, not she, that needs counselling?

My reply would be "Lisa we agreed to work on a marriage. This is not a marriage. So let's do the legal paperwork to recognise the truth. I like hanging out with you, you can still come over every weekend. But if we are not married we are not married."

I am not trying to give you a hard time here Sad. But do you really have a marriage?

You didn't answer my question about her seeing someone else. What info do you have? What grounds for suspicion?


----------



## Laba

My reply would be "Lisa we agreed to work on a marriage. This is not a marriage. So let's do the legal paperwork to recognise the truth. I like hanging out with you, you can still come over every weekend. But if we are not married we are not married."
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## tom67

Laba said:


> My reply would be "Lisa we agreed to work on a marriage. This is not a marriage. So let's do the legal paperwork to recognise the truth. I like hanging out with you, you can still come over every weekend. But if we are not married we are not married."
> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


Sigh- If you need confirmation find out who the om is during the week sometime. She doesn't want a divorce because she will have to pay BUT she doesn't want to be married to you! Good no very good chance there is someone else sorry.


----------



## pidge70

Why is she worried that a second job will keep her from seeing anyone when she stated the thought of sex disgusts her? I seriously doubt there are many men who dream of entering a relationship with a woman that won't put out.....ever.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You guys have all made great points. 

The guy that wanted to date her while we were split she said she turned him down for sex so he hit the road. He has gone after a bunch since her. She told me she was very upset when he bolted after being turned down for sex. Also he has a crazy lady room mate that used to stalk them.. showing up where they were.. making a scene. 

She said after that rejection she just hung out once and a while with her girlfriends but mostly stayed at home. She said I knocked the wind out of her sail in court and I left her crying in her room many times after court because I was doing so well in court without a lawyer. 

I hope they didn't have sexual relations but i think that is mostly out of my own self esteem issues. 

I told her last night that this wasn't a marriage... she agreed. I said so many things last night that i can't type it all out. I did get a ton out. I threw at her about court.. about the money.. about me getting her out of the financial nightmare by dropping the case.

I told her that I would take her back to court and this time not let off... she said you can't get blood from a stone. I told her I would leave her eating Mr Noodles if it meant my girls could eat....


----------



## happyman64

Laba said:


> I read your whole thread and will be brutally honest now( my opinion only). I am a women and we do think different from men so maybe this insight will help you.
> 
> She didn't come back because she loves you. She came back because she saw that you will fry her financially and also she needed a chance to improve her image in her families/friends eyes. The strength she saw you emerge in was too intimidating so consciously or not she is on a mission to take you down again and make you her puppet.
> 
> She has checked out a long time ago and please believe me when I say this - when we women check out, it's in 90% cases for good. I don't know why it's so but that's the way it is.
> 
> Please educate yourself in 180 and give yourself a true chance of happiness. Life doesn't end at 40. You are entering possibly the best period of your life, just stop running like a hamster in a wheel trying to save something thats impossible to save.


When you really look at it she never came back.

She does not live there except weekends.
They have no contact during the week for the most part.
They do not have sex.

So tell me when she really came back?

And Sad I do know you love her.

I think a little too much or maybe more than she loves you.

And yes you can have sex outside the marriage, you just have to divorce her first!

Your wife has issues Sad. I feel for you.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You guys have all made great points.
> 
> The guy that wanted to date her while we were split she said she turned him down for sex so he hit the road. He has gone after a bunch since her. She told me she was very upset when he bolted after being turned down for sex. Also he has a crazy lady room mate that used to stalk them.. showing up where they were.. making a scene.
> 
> She said after that rejection she just hung out once and a while with her girlfriends but mostly stayed at home. She said I knocked the wind out of her sail in court and I left her crying in her room many times after court because I was doing so well in court without a lawyer.
> 
> I hope they didn't have sexual relations but i think that is mostly out of my own self esteem issues.
> 
> I told her last night that this wasn't a marriage... she agreed. I said so many things last night that i can't type it all out. I did get a ton out. I threw at her about court.. about the money.. about me getting her out of the financial nightmare by dropping the case.
> 
> I told her that I would take her back to court and this time not let off... she said you can't get blood from a stone. I told her I would leave her eating Mr Noodles if it meant my girls could eat....


She is still their mother. Don't crush her if you go this route.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We had a great day yesterday. But like you said... like two friends hanging out.

I'm gonna go with it for a bit and see where it heads.

I will keep you guys informed on the situation.

I hopefully will have my interview to be General Manager of my own Pizza Hut. then i can close my little restaurant and Lisa and I will be rid of a cash cow that has added stress for years to both of us.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> We had a great day yesterday. But like you said... like two friends hanging out.
> 
> I'm gonna go with it for a bit and see where it heads.
> 
> I will keep you guys informed on the situation.
> 
> I hopefully will have my interview to be General Manager of my own Pizza Hut. then i can close my little restaurant and Lisa and I will be rid of a cash cow that has added stress for years to both of us.


I think that is a great plan.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Before bed last night I told her that I did some thinking... I said " we have a 17 year history and I'm not giving that up for something that we can work out as we go along" 

She gave me a big hug.. seemed relieved. 

Lately she has been have some terrible "girl" issues. Stuff starting and stopping when it's not supposed to , hot flashes, etc. She is making a doctors appointment this week to address it. 

Most of the time we can't have sex anyways due to the mess. Trust me .. I know.. woman don't go " oh ****" and quickly run for new clothes then hop in the bath for nothing. I said " Girl issues?" she said that sometimes she hates being a girl and hops in the bath.

Maybe some of the issues she is having with sex are due to not knowing if things would "be able" to happen on the spir of the moment due to this "issues"

Some woman on here... ring in on this.

She did say on Friday that it was a major issue with us getting intimate due to that happening out of the blue.


----------



## 06Daddio08

If getting intimate was high on her list, she would go see a doctor to get this all looked into. Has she?


----------



## bandit.45

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Before bed last night I told her that I did some thinking... I said " we have a 17 year history and I'm not giving that up for something that we can work out as we go along"
> 
> She gave me a* big hug.. *seemed relieved.
> 
> Lately she has been have some terrible "girl" issues. Stuff starting and stopping when it's not supposed to , hot flashes, etc. She is making a doctors appointment this week to address it.
> 
> Most of the time we can't have sex anyways due to the mess. Trust me .. I know.. woman don't go " oh ****" and quickly run for new clothes then hop in the bath for nothing. I said " Girl issues?" she said that sometimes she hates being a girl and hops in the bath.
> 
> Maybe some of the issues she is having with sex are due to not knowing if things would "be able" to happen on the spir of the moment due to this "issues"
> 
> Some woman on here... ring in on this.
> 
> She did say on Friday that it was a major issue with us getting intimate due to that happening out of the blue.




Hug.


Hug hug hug hug hug hug.......WTF is with you and her and hugs? 

Are you so freakin' needy that you have lowered yourself to just getting hugs from this asexual thing you keep calling your wife. 

If someone like this did the things to me she'd get a bowl of spaghetti dumped on her head when she moved in to try to hug me! 

Hug hug hg hug hug.....BLECH!!! VOMIT!!!!

God this is the most annoying thread I have ever read!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She is planning on it.. She works in a shipping department with limited trained people that can cover for her. In a month she has an opportunity to get fulltime and that would get her a $3 an hour raise and benefits so my daughter can get her braces ( I don't have benefits). She is trying to impress them which means not taking time off. Her doctor is over an hour away ( just like mine)

She wants to get an ablation like her month had at her age to fix some of her issues. Her early menopause is not helping either.

I'm starting new meds also after 5 years on the same one.. so we are both not in the right mindset..

That is why I'm not jumping the gun. We are both on edge with hormones and mental issues.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Good luck to you, any good employer would allow an employee who actually needs medical attention to get medical attention for ONE DAY. Cannot wait to hear the excuses AFTER she gets this promotion, "I can't take time off to get it done, I just got this promotion", "Work has been so busy, I have all these people to train" etc etc.

$3.00 raise is also an extra $480 a month and that is typically half the price of an apartment ... all speculation but something to consider.

Damn, you're such a Mr. Nice Guy .. still.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am... and that is my downfall...


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I am... and that is my downfall...


It's one thing to be patient with the process but it's another to keep making excuses to progress the process.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now you think I am making excuses for her? Seriously?

Does everyone here think marriages are throw away now?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Now you think I am making excuses for her? Seriously?
> 
> Does everyone here think marriages are throw away now?


Throw away? Hardly. But it does take two to make it work and from what you've been saying, you are trying to make it work the best you can while getting nothing but excuses from the other end.

The point is, if this 'physical ailment' is the cause for her not being able to 'up the progression' of reconciliation and she WANTED to, she would get it done and taken care of.


----------



## tdwal

She is playing you Sad, I'm sorry.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am gonna talk to her today before she leaves about it one more time. I don't want to interrupt her time with the girls right now. 

There is a time and place for everything.

I think one of the other issues is that she used to tell me that I never really tried to live up to my potential.

I always took jobs that were below my potential. I have an IQ of 135 and have 6 years of college, Dean's List... but yet always seems to work below my potential.

She really was surprised that I randomly showed up to the job fair and blew them away for a possible General Manager position.

She is impressed with me.. but maybe a woman can chime in to say if it is fair for a woman to want his man to work at his potential..


----------



## jpr

I think the above post illustrates the problem. Your marriage is on the rocks. You listen to you spouse, and you hear her when she says that you it bothers her that you are not "working to your potential". So, you DO SOMETHING about it. 

You are taking action. ...because it is important to you to save your marriage.

Your wife, however, is making excuses and not taking action to correct a health issue that is having a majorly negative impact on your marriage.

We all make time for things that are important to us. Her inaction is telling you that saving your marriage is not a priority.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I tried to cuddle up against her for the last hour. She gave me a terrible look like.. why are you touching me.

I told her tonight that I will decide before the end of the week whether or not I am going to re-file for divorce.

I told her before she left that i don't even feel like I have a girlfriend let alone a wife.


----------



## K.C.

Consistency.

You need to take a step back from your emotions before responding to things. In one day you have gone from "we can work on it as we go" to an ultimatum?

Don't get me wrong i do not think she is being fair but while sex or even just physical closeness shouldn't be a carrot for her to hold over you, D shouldn't be a stick for you to wave around.

If you feel the way you do, i see no reason to not refile if it is what you decide but consistency. Why say we can work as we go if you're going to follow up with that? 

I guess I could have missed something? Have you specified what it takes to feel like you don't have a girlfriend let alone a wife? If you haven't she may well just be interpreting your words and actions as wanting sex.

Don't mean to sound like a git. But a contributing part of my split was that I wanted physical contact all the time when she was unable to 'do it' and thought that was all I was after, I was always ready for sex but would have been fine with cuddling when she wasn't ready (sounds like Mrs.C may have a similar condition she is being treated for), my actions didn't necessarily back that up though.. Has physical closeness historically led to you trying to "initiate"?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes.. it did seems to her that it led to sex all the time.

But after two days of enjoying each company.. come on.. I didn't want sex.. I wanted a cuddle.

So gave me a death look like I had a disease or something. She leaned in.. arms crossed..I said to her. Are you doing this out of protest.. she gave me another death stare. I pulled away and said.. forget it.

I cook for her all weekend, cleaned the house... went up town for chocolate because she wanted it.. went and got her coffee.. etc.,

ALL I WANTED WAS TO BE HELD FOR THE LAST 15 MINUTES SHE WAS HERE. She couldn`t even do that.

Maybe people on here were right.. maybe she just wants to be friends and that's it. 

I was fine yesterday... until she pulled this bonehead mood today.

I don`t know if i can do it. I am so angry right now. I don`t deserve this. My kids don`t deserve this.

she is a great mom but a terrible partner. Maybe intellectually stimulating and very pretty but come on.

She gave me a hug before she left.. I didn't have to come to her.. She knows I am pissed . I slammed the door as i went back in the house after loading her clothes in her car.

15 minutes after she left I sent her the text saying "Before the end of this week I`m going to decide whether or not I am going to refile"

I really need to think about this.. my future.. my kids future. 

Maybe this week I really should think about whether this is what I want.

I don't know what to say to the lady at Marriage Counseling. I'm supposed to call her back tomorrow to book our first appointment.

I am so lost... I feel like my head has gone through a spinner and I'm ready to collapse.


----------



## K.C.

I feel for you. In my case i am very physical. Touch is my primary love language and I know that came across inappropriately to Mrs.C many times. I could just want to hold each other and she would think, based on my past actions i wanted more than that and pull away to prevent having to outright decline.

If there was no medical/physical reason for her sexual ambivalence I would be totally with you, I just have been there with someone that has a preventative condition and not done well enough at restraining myself in her eyes. She felt pressured, not to cuddle but to go beyond that.

Just step back from your hurt and anger and see if that may be the case. That said you are talking a long time without intimacy. If she doesn't see that improving and you don't see yourself in a sexless marriage or 'cheating' there is only one way to go I would guess. 

It's just consistency. What message is she receiving from you. not the one you are sending but the one she is getting.


----------



## tom67

I would forget the mc it would be a waste of money. According to her she rejected the guy's advances at work. Eh if you know anyone else at her workplace I would ask and see if that's the case. Has she given you any child support yet?


----------



## tdwal

That's just it Tom she has given him no child support and when he asked about it she said can't squeeze blood out of a stone. Great answer huh.

The court can Sad.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Other than paying a few bills here and there I have got no child support.


----------



## K.C.

So she isn't even being a supportive Mum? Wow. Sad, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Just wherever you draw it, stick to it or it means nothing.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I feel broken...


----------



## K.C.

You probably are.

But probably not in a way it sounds like you think you are.

It is entirely possible to love too much. Have you at any point in this tried simply letting go. Simple is the last thing it is to actually do but the concept is simple heh.

I don't mean filing or threatening to, but emotionally letting her go? Accept you cannot make her love you if she doesn't and let her decision be her decision. For clarity her deciding to keep you dangling is no decision at all.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She won't answer her phone or my texts tonight so i guess this might be an easier decision than I thought.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was letting go before she wanted to come back. I had 5 months of letting go.


----------



## 06Daddio08

After saying what you did, why are you texting and calling?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have no idea.. maybe regret?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Stop.


----------



## spun

K.C. said:


> You probably are.
> 
> But probably not in a way it sounds like you think you are.
> 
> It is entirely possible to love too much. Have you at any point in this tried simply letting go. Simple is the last thing it is to actually do but the concept is simple heh.
> 
> I don't mean filing or threatening to, but emotionally letting her go? Accept you cannot make her love you if she doesn't and let her decision be her decision. For clarity her deciding to keep you dangling is no decision at all.


Sad,

Letting her go is the key to regaining your own sanity.

You have no control over what she does or says.

You are allowing her to hold you an emotional hostage.

That choice is yours.

Focus on what you have control over...

You.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I feel like the day she first left.

I cancelled the divorce... now I will have to refile.. pay another person to serve her etc.

This is retarded.. if I do refile I know this time she will come and get the kids while I'm at work.

This is crazy.. and my new meds aren't helping. I'm freaking out right now.


----------



## tdwal

You know you should have kept moving forward with the divorce, you could always have gotten together after. Start and don't stop come he11 or high water.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She texted me back. She was talking to her room mate and her phone was in her room. She just came in to find my messages and told me to " stop and leave me alone tonight" " she said she will go to counseling when I make the appointment"

FML.... I'm glad my meds are getting doubled on tuesday.


----------



## K.C.

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I feel like the day she first left.
> 
> I cancelled the divorce... now I will have to refile.. pay another person to serve her etc.
> 
> This is retarded.. if I do refile I know this time she will come and get the kids while I'm at work.
> 
> This is crazy.. and my new meds aren't helping. I'm freaking out right now.


It is either a reaction to the meds, or based on what actions you describe; you feel you have been suckered.

Don't "react". Think and then "act What steps can you take to protect yourself and the relationship with the kids? Are there legal steps you can take before showing your hand to prevent her taking the kids".

You sound like someone who already knew it was going this way but didn't want to believe and though it was worth the risk? 

Stop reacting. Think, then act.


----------



## K.C.

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She texted me back. She was talking to her room mate and her phone was in her room. She just came in to find my messages and told me to " stop and leave me alone tonight" " she said she will go to counseling when I make the appointment"
> 
> FML.... I'm glad my meds are getting doubled on Tuesday.


She will go counselling when she makes appointment or when you do it for her?

Screw her saying it, you really do need to stop chasing.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My meds are giving me terrible anxiety right now. I was on a great dosage that kept my head straight but had to change meds due to a possible health risk at my dosage level.

Lisa does know how badly i react to med changes.

I do need to stop reacting. Last week I went no contact and everything seemed to be better for me all week. I think other than Marriage Counselling I will go no contact this week too.

It seems like that is the only way I find normalcy through this process.

I'm not a religious man... but for some stupid reason I feel my vows are very important. I can't shake it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I am calling since I work for myself and can make the calls when I'm not busy.

Who know.. maybe when I get this new job and stop spending all my time alone i will see a brighter side to life.

I will be around people.. who knows..


----------



## K.C.

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My meds are giving me terrible anxiety right now. I was on a great dosage that kept my head straight but had to change meds due to a possible health risk at my dosage level.
> 
> Lisa does know how badly i react to med changes.
> 
> I do need to stop reacting. Last week I went no contact and everything seemed to be better for me all week. I think other than Marriage Counselling I will go no contact this week too.
> 
> It seems like that is the only way I find normalcy through this process.
> 
> I'm not a religious man... but for some stupid reason I feel my vows are very important. I can't shake it.


Screw religion. I am the same. I believe in a higher power but he has nothing to do with my marriage r t's breakup. A vow is a vow we make and it sure as hell should mean something.

No where in my vows though did it say I would be her jailer if she decided not to keep to the vow she mad at the same time. It took me months but eventually i decided to let her go. now all my actions and thoughts (well most heh I still want her back really) are focussed on letting myself detach and rebuild. Not because I want to but because she does. She will come back (as I wish) or she won't (as is likely) but I won't sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting.

Forget waiting for what she wants. What do you want? If it is causing you this much pain you need to be ready to move on. So many take that as meaning play hide the sausage with the next available woman but it doesn't' it just means letting go and focusing on you and whatever life may bring.


----------



## K.C.

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I am calling since I work for myself and can make the calls when I'm not busy.



Dude, if she has the problem, she should take ownership of seeking help. You cannot fix her, only she can.

Please tell me you have at least looked into codependency?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

true... most when the marriage counseling office is right beside her office in the attached building. Crazy eh? All she has to do is go over on break. I told her today that I expect her to make an appointment with her doctor since I am seeing mine. 

I hope the doctor jacks up my meds to a level I can live with like before changing. The anxiety is a killer.


----------



## K.C.

Ow man. Your killing me. I feel for where you are as I am not far removed in some ways but, does she want to fix things or not?

You could likely solve some of the anxiety by letting her own her own bullsh1t?

Seriously, have you looked into codependency? Even with the will of God behind you (if you believe), you cannot fix someone that doesn't want to fix themselves.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

True.... very true.

Two hours later my anxiety is way down and not I feel a lot better.

I think my anxiety is dictating some of my behaviour


----------



## Wazza

Ok....deep breath.

You want the marriage. You recognise that reconciliation is not going smoothly. You recognise you both have issues. 

I get the sense that you would love to work through the issues but you are not ok to be used.

You also recognise that you are not very level headed right now.

So......make the MC appointment. Think about the issues you want to put on the table. The issues you are raising here. Distill them and make them clear, like you distiller things in fighting for divorce.

Go NC if you need to, but tell her that you are taking the time to think. 

Key message (assuming it is the truth) "I love you. If we can have a good marriage I want to work on it, but if not I want to be friends, because I like you and because out kids need two parents". Very important to convey that you care, but also that you will not accept just anything. 

And NO major decisions while your head is a mess. You screwed up tonight by reacting. You can't do that repeatedly. Apply the skills you used in pursuing divorce to pursuing a solution to this problem.

You can do this. Make the S stand for strong, not sad, again.


----------



## Wazza

Additional comment...she is annoyed that divorce is back in the table...fair enough since earlier in the weekend you were committing to work through things. So saying don't contact her is not surprising.

But she did say she would go to MC. That is a positive. Even when annoyed at you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

true. I'm going to talk to a doctor about personal counseling to do with my issues separate from my marriage. I think I need someone to help me with my own underlying issues.


----------



## bandit.45

Isn't marriage supposed to have love, devotion, fidelity, cooperation, mutual respect, dedication.....

I'm not seeing any of this from her.

So you think this is a marriage huh?


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Yes.. it did seems to her that it led to sex all the time.
> 
> But after two days of enjoying each company.. come on.. I didn't want sex.. I wanted a cuddle.
> 
> So gave me a death look like I had a disease or something. She leaned in.. arms crossed..I said to her. Are you doing this out of protest.. she gave me another death stare. I pulled away and said.. forget it.
> 
> I cook for her all weekend, cleaned the house... went up town for chocolate because she wanted it.. went and got her coffee.. etc.,
> 
> ALL I WANTED WAS TO BE HELD FOR THE LAST 15 MINUTES SHE WAS HERE. She couldn`t even do that.
> 
> Maybe people on here were right.. maybe she just wants to be friends and that's it.
> 
> I was fine yesterday... until she pulled this bonehead mood today.
> 
> I don`t know if i can do it. I am so angry right now. I don`t deserve this. My kids don`t deserve this.
> 
> she is a great mom but a terrible partner. Maybe intellectually stimulating and very pretty but come on.
> 
> She gave me a hug before she left.. I didn't have to come to her.. She knows I am pissed . I slammed the door as i went back in the house after loading her clothes in her car.
> 
> 15 minutes after she left I sent her the text saying "Before the end of this week I`m going to decide whether or not I am going to refile"
> 
> I really need to think about this.. my future.. my kids future.
> 
> Maybe this week I really should think about whether this is what I want.
> 
> I don't know what to say to the lady at Marriage Counseling. I'm supposed to call her back tomorrow to book our first appointment.
> 
> I am so lost... I feel like my head has gone through a spinner and I'm ready to collapse.


Barf! Ugggh! Barf!

Geez Somebody help this man
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sent her a text this morning that read :

The counseling is right next to Teksavvy (her work). If you are truly serious about fixing things in counseling you can go next door and arrange our first appointment. Her name is Christine. I will be not be calling her back. I will leave this one to you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

GUTPUNCH... what is with the barf... is your man card too big to want a cuddle once and a while?


----------



## GutPunch

I need cuddles like anybody else. Been a while for me too.

Accept it. You need to be ok without them.

Your neediness shows thru on your thread.

You are pushing her away and your attractiveness is dropping.

No panties ever dropped from would you please cuddle with me please?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So sit on my end of the couch and deal with it?

Is that not giving her everything she wants without any work on her part?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I've done some thinking.

Besides Marriage Counselling, I'm considering private counseling for myself. I think I have issues I need to deal with me on my own. 

I have OCD, ADHD, depression and anxiety... Maybe time to face my demons alone.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I've done some thinking.
> 
> Besides Marriage Counselling, I'm considering private counseling for myself. I think I have issues I need to deal with me on my own.
> 
> I have OCD, ADHD, depression and anxiety... Maybe time to face my demons alone.


*Who better to rely on than yourself!*


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not happy in my skin and haven't for a while so I think it is time to realize that I need extra help.


----------



## Laba

Please just understand SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU!!!!!!!! She wants you to not divorce so she doesn't get screwed financially. Her crossed arms was basically her saying - leave me alone financially, be my doormat but never dare to ask affection from me.

Until you see things for what they are you will be stuck with your anxiety, stress and the rest. 

Nothing gives us more piece then clarity - I understand you are confused at all times and not able to think clear but try, just try to see what all of us are seeing. 

Every TAMMER is getting blue in their face trying to open your eyes, no one is giving up on you, but even if we are strangers it's not easy to see getting anyone emotionally abused from the person they love.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I've done some thinking.
> 
> Besides Marriage Counselling, I'm considering private counseling for myself. I think I have issues I need to deal with me on my own.
> 
> I have OCD, ADHD, depression and anxiety... Maybe time to face my demons alone.


Impossible to like this one enough.

I would suggest having a cool, firm, dispassionate sit-down with her where you tell her about your plans.

This is not to be a "report card" on you where you promise to "do better"

It's about you getting emotionally centered and fulfilling your potential as a man.

Your journey really has nothing to do with her, but it would be helpful to your relationship to have this re-set.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

LABA... I do see your point. I don't necessarily agree but I see it.

Why would she agree to Marriage Counseling if she doesn't want me?


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I've done some thinking.
> 
> Besides Marriage Counselling, I'm considering private counseling for myself. I think I have issues I need to deal with me on my own.
> 
> I have OCD, ADHD, depression and anxiety... Maybe time to face my demons alone.


Now that's what I'm talking about.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> LABA... I do see your point. I don't necessarily agree but I see it.
> 
> Why would she agree to Marriage Counseling if she doesn't want me?


To string you along so you don't refile jmo.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm gonna do some self reflecting here.. Ladies chime in too..

1. I am self employed and work by myself which give me WAY too much time to think and stare at my phone waiting for a text.. BAD.
The business is struggling so my self worth sucks ass... she can see it.I know it.
I'm projecting failure and it is not helping things.
GOOD: I have an interview for a new job that will get me around people all the time.... earn great money and have a paycheck that will actually get my ass out of debt.

My mental disorders are now becoming a problem between Lisa and 2. How can she "like" let alone "love" a guy that is so screwed up his moods go up and down like a playground teeter totter : BAD She told me on Friday that I should be institutionalized which she later recanted and replaced with therapy saying she was at her wits end. 
GOOD: Getting therapy up and above marriage counseling so that i have a clear head and can hold my head up that I'm not a broken mental headcase anymore.

3. I'm gonna sell my business which will remove much of the financial stress that has plagued us even since the recession hit. :GOOD:

4. I look to impress others more than impress myself. I'm always looking for someone to tell me that I did a good job.:BAD:



I bet there is more..


----------



## GutPunch

Do it for yourself not for her


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is for me.... 

The hardest thing to learn is that I have my own journey in life.. my own path. I just can't get that through my head.

Maybe marriage counseling with help to see if we are on the same path.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> GUTPUNCH... what is with the barf... is your man card too big to want a cuddle once and a while?


Right now, it looks clingy.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm gonna do some self reflecting here.. Ladies chime in too..
> 
> 1. I am self employed and work by myself which give me WAY too much time to think and stare at my phone waiting for a text.. BAD.
> The business is struggling so my self worth sucks ass... she can see it.I know it.
> I'm projecting failure and it is not helping things.
> GOOD: I have an interview for a new job that will get me around people all the time.... earn great money and have a paycheck that will actually get my ass out of debt.
> 
> My mental disorders are now becoming a problem between Lisa and 2. How can she "like" let alone "love" a guy that is so screwed up his moods go up and down like a playground teeter totter : BAD She told me on Friday that I should be institutionalized which she later recanted and replaced with therapy saying she was at her wits end.
> GOOD: Getting therapy up and above marriage counseling so that i have a clear head and can hold my head up that I'm not a broken mental headcase anymore.
> 
> 3. I'm gonna sell my business which will remove much of the financial stress that has plagued us even since the recession hit. :GOOD:
> 
> 4. I look to impress others more than impress myself. I'm always looking for someone to tell me that I did a good job.:BAD:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet there is more..


You should make this your match.com profile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## K.C.

Shine a light.

If I made an match.com profile that blunt and honest about myself, it would be worst than that and I wouldn't even get the weirdos to bite! 


Whoa a sec.. did I just read she said to your face you should be institutionalised? WTF, regardless of what issues you have this is an enormous lack of respect.

She is showing you NO affection and NO respect.


----------



## terrence4159

just got back on your thread sad A im sorry you are going through this man i really am! now for the 2x4 we all told you she was going to pull this. you need to step up and put you foot down. commit 100% to the marriage (sex included) or D yesterday


----------



## terrence4159

this is Terrences's wife sad....you are getting played and strung along until she can show the courts she changed and when that day comes she will serve you with D papers. YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!! server her...NOW


----------



## Sbrown

Holy ****, I go away for a couple months only to come back and find your still being played like a fiddle! Have some self respect! File d NOW!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Laba

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> LABA... I do see your point. I don't necessarily agree but I see it.
> 
> Why would she agree to Marriage Counseling if she doesn't want me?


Because MC is the only thing she can give you!!!!!!!! She is too disgusted with herself to be affectionate with you so she is playing this card to buy more time. But I am pretty positive if she is determined to screw with your brain when you refile again she will also find her cuddling will back.

Buy more time for what you would ask????? Who knows!!! No one but her knows - whether it's to have time to set some money apart for future life or a really good attorney, or meet her mr. Right - she still has a use for you.

There is no such a thing as asexual women - any woman will turn into tiger in bedroom given the partner they desire. You don't even know if the stories she has been feeding you are true about the other guy she dated.

What concerns your anxiety and mood swings - it's direct effect of your insecurities that are directly caused by her. She at this point has you exactly where she want's you to be - broken, insecure and weak. So back to square 1- puppeteer and thee puppet(which unfortunately is you).
I think lots of us have been insecure in our relationships and that will drive anyone MAD to say the least. I know I have had sleepless nights because of that.

Look as a women I have had the advantage of having heard deepest thoughts of many women in similar situations, if a women acts like your WW - there is something behind it. ALWAYS!!!!


----------



## Laba

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm gonna do some self reflecting here.. Ladies chime in too..
> 
> 1. I am self employed and work by myself which give me WAY too much time to think and stare at my phone waiting for a text.. BAD.
> Yes and no - if you use this time to see your situation from side it could be perfect for you.
> 
> 
> My mental disorders are now becoming a problem between Lisa and 2. How can she "like" let alone "love" a guy that is so screwed up his moods go up and down like a playground teeter totter :
> 
> Huge part of your disorders are caused by instability in your personal life - once you find your balls, grab them and stand up for yourself at least 50% of that will be gone, other 50% will go once you meet a women that will not have to force herself to be affectionate and nice to you.
> 
> 4. I look to impress others more than impress myself. I'm always looking for someone to tell me that I did a good job.:BAD:
> 
> You are still looking for approval from someone that's obviously doesn't think much of you. If you keep letting her feed your insecurities and anxiety it will only get worse.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK... update.

I started on my new meds on Tuesday. By Thursday my anxiety was almost non existent.

On Wed I was told that the Pizza Hut Chain wold really like to have me as a General Manager to repair a few stores that are failing. I will find out more about it next week.

With my new found confidence I called Lisa.

Basically this is what I said.

You have made no attempt at calling the marriage counselor intake person. I left it to you to do to make sure you are serious.

You said we can not touch or be intimate anymore. If you are serious.. here is your out. We will stop this now.. head back to court and all will be forgotten and we go our separate ways.
Are you currently screwing anyone at work and that is why you are not interesting in being physical with me.. cause your getting it somewhere else. 
( as a supplement to that... the day before.. I had a hour to burn before my interview. I texted her to see if she wanted to have a coffee... she said she was just in her comfy clothes and made herself lunch. I texted back that I am 2 minutes away and I will just visit with her there. I did that to see if she has been lying about being off work early and just hanging out. It turns out.. she was in her comfy clothes and eating lunch just like she said)

I told her that if she wants out.. lets do it now. I will give the rest of her stuff to the accountant, refile and we can fight it out on the rest.

I said I will not be at the house Friday night as I am representing the racing club at a car show and will be late. You have two days to think about it and I will talk to you on Sat.

I said I am in the best shape I have been in a while. I have a chance at a great job, using my education . A chance to better the life for me and the girls. If she doesn't want to be a part of the three of us then it is time to go NOW! The girls are number one in my life not you and your drama.

If you are serious then you will call the counselor.. if not then see ya later.. I have the papers filed by Monday. This time it will not be pretty. I will hire a lawyer and off we go our merry ways.

This was Thursday at noon. I got a call from the counselor saying she wants to start counseling on her own and asked me how I would like to do my part. I said I would wait until she is done and have my turn.
______________________

So.. Saturday monring comes. I bring her a coffee.. no hugs nothing. Spend the weekend on my side of the couch playing on the computer and watching tv with her and the girls. I basically said nothing. These meds are kinda a sedative so I was actually kinda mellow for a change.

Sat night came. I made the couch.. she went to bed.

Sunday.. I came home from doing my order at the pizzeria.. gave her a coffee..

She actually made me some biscuits and buttered and gave it to me. ( Not normal)

I sat on the couch chattering on FB chat until I had to leave to pick up my racer. I basically got up.. got dressed.. and said. If your not here when I get back.. have a nice week and I will see you next Friday.

2 hours later I came home... she was still there.. ( Surprising.. she normally is gone by 3 or 4 on Sundays.. this time it was almost 6)

She hugged the kids.. I stayed on the couch. As she walked out I said goodbye back and I will talk to you next Friday.

We didn't touch once all weekend.. I didn't ask about counseling.. didn't talk about us.. nothing.. The most we talked was a few things on Sunday afternoon before I left about Star Trek ( which we were watching)
------------------------------------------------------

So.... is what I did the 180? 

What do you think of my approach?


----------



## Conrad

What are you going to do tomorrow?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Not a damn thing.. I said talk to you on Friday.. and that is what I'm gonna do. 

I don't know what I should do if she texts me.. I was thinking about waiting a few hours to respond and make it as short as absolutely possible.


----------



## Conrad

Is this the first time she's been to IC?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep.. basically I said.. If you don`t call we are done.. period.

This will be her first time. All I told her was to text me to tell me she called. She did texted me 4 hours after our talk. 

I figured she would wait until next week or not do it at all.

She wants to go first which I think says something...


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Yep.. basically I said.. If you don`t call we are done.. period.
> 
> This will be her first time. All I told her was to text me to tell me she called. She did texted me 4 hours after our talk.
> 
> I figured she would wait until next week or not do it at all.
> 
> She wants to go first which I think says something...


It's not a magic bullet, but it's a good first step.

You need to continue standing up to her and working on yourself.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm a little emotionally drained tonight. Standing tall against an oppressor is draining.....

Another week.. hopefully here more about the job.

Basically the second from the top of the chain was scouting talent ad really has no place for me yet. They are replacing the management teams in order to rebuild the stores. They wanted owners. 

I'm an owner of a pizzeria.. I have a three year diploma in Business and trained in Human resources. I also have strong communication skills.

The big change I had was on Wed. when I talked to the Operations Manager in the interview.

He told me that there is a non competition clause in Pizza Huts employment contract and I wasn't allowed to own a pizzeria while being employed to Pizza Hut. I think he thought I was yes man him and do whatever he said.

I simply looked at him and said " Regardless of your contract. I will retain ownership of my pizzeria until such time as Pizza Hut deems me a full employment after the 3 month probation period. I will not make the mistake of selling my livelihood to find out I am not a fit for your organization and be left in the cold with no means to support my family. After the three months we will discuss me selling my investment in order to fulfill my obligations to Pizza Hut"

He looked at me.. paused.. and then said he agrees.. That makes sense.

In the truck after the interview I realized that he saw that I wasn't gonna be a yes man and I think he liked it.

BUT... I have been a Yes man to Lisa for years.

At that point I decided that I am going to look after my own interest instead of hers.

That is when I planned my called to her the next day to lay it on the line.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm a little emotionally drained tonight. Standing tall against an oppressor is draining.....
> 
> Another week.. hopefully here more about the job.
> 
> Basically the second from the top of the chain was scouting talent ad really has no place for me yet. They are replacing the management teams in order to rebuild the stores. They wanted owners.
> 
> I'm an owner of a pizzeria.. I have a three year diploma in Business and trained in Human resources. I also have strong communication skills.
> 
> The big change I had was on Wed. when I talked to the Operations Manager in the interview.
> 
> He told me that there is a non competition clause in Pizza Huts employment contract and I wasn't allowed to own a pizzeria while being employed to Pizza Hut. I think he thought I was yes man him and do whatever he said.
> 
> I simply looked at him and said " Regardless of your contract. I will retain ownership of my pizzeria until such time as Pizza Hut deems me a full employment after the 3 month probation period. I will not make the mistake of selling my livelihood to find out I am not a fit for your organization and be left in the cold with no means to support my family. After the three months we will discuss me selling my investment in order to fulfill my obligations to Pizza Hut"
> 
> He looked at me.. paused.. and then said he agrees.. That makes sense.
> 
> In the truck after the interview I realized that he saw that I wasn't gonna be a yes man and I think he liked it.
> 
> BUT... I have been a Yes man to Lisa for years.
> 
> At that point I decided that I am going to look after my own interest instead of hers.
> 
> That is when I planned my called to her the next day to lay it on the line.


I think that is a good step for you Sad. 

No means no!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I hate to say that meds help.. but in my case the lack of anxiety has really made me think straight.

BUT.. is what I'm doing is called the 180? 

That term still confuses me..


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I hate to say that meds help.. but in my case the lack of anxiety has really made me think straight.
> 
> BUT.. is what I'm doing is called the 180?
> 
> That term still confuses me..


Does it matter what you call it?

I think lots of people here say 180 for different things. But yes, I think it is a variant of 180. And it is what you need to do.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Keep my distance is the key here I think,


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The girls told me that she went and bought some food while I took went and got my racer from the show.

I got up this morning and went looking for some breakfast. I found my favorite cereal and a couple other things waiting for me this morning for breakfast...

Nice surprise and i thought she rarely thinks about me..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

http://ezinearticles.com/?Boundaries---Save-Your-Marriage-or-Relationship&id=542526

I really think this is what I'm doing right now. what do you think?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. it is Tuesday. No contact since she left Sunday night.

Today I texted her around 3pm to tell her I might have a chance at another job .. nothing else.. just that. We have only texted once in the last week.

No response. 

Maybe she is mad at me basically ignoring her last weekend or whatever.

Guess I will just wait and see how long it takes for a response.

For some reason my anxiety has come back tonight.. really bad. I find I am looking at my phone again waiting to hear from her. This sucks cause I have felt so great for the past week since I started my new medication.

I'm not giving in though......


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> http://ezinearticles.com/?Boundaries---Save-Your-Marriage-or-Relationship&id=542526
> 
> I really think this is what I'm doing right now. what do you think?


Do you still think so?

Sounds like the codependence is still there.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Today I texted her around 3pm



WHY?


----------



## tom67

You may as well refile my friend jmo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Just letting her know I have a chance at another job. Was that a bad thing to do?

Maybe I should have just waiting until I got the interview.

So you guys think I'm looking for her to support me instead of doing this on my own?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Just letting her know I have a chance at another job. Was that a bad thing to do?
> 
> Maybe I should have just waiting until I got the interview.
> 
> So you guys think I'm looking for her to support me instead of doing this on my own?


You laid down the law - good.

Now, you are reaching out - not as good.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Did some reading.. 

I'm just co-dependant.... I'm VERY co-dependant.

So ... what do I do to fix it?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Did some reading..
> 
> I'm just co-dependant.... I'm VERY co-dependant.
> 
> So ... what do I do to fix it?


Do you have the book?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No.. I took a few quizzes and read a few articles. It's like it was written just for me. 

So basically... shut my mouth and quit looking for her to prop me up and learn to be happy in my own skin...

I will leave everything be until she comes on Friday.

The funny thing is she has to help me at the pizzeria for Good Friday supper...  That should be interesting.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> No.. I took a few quizzes and read a few articles. It's like it was written just for me.
> 
> So basically... shut my mouth and quit looking for her to prop me up and learn to be happy in my own skin...
> 
> I will leave everything be until she comes on Friday.
> 
> The funny thing is she has to help me at the pizzeria for Good Friday supper...  That should be interesting.


Codependent No More: Melody Beattie: 9781419383908: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So what do I do now. When she responds... do I respond back or just leave it be?

Is doing the 180 supposed to piss off the other person? Not from what I read.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> So what do I do now. When she responds... do I respond back or just leave it be?
> 
> Is doing the 180 supposed to piss off the other person? Not from what I read.


Depends on what she says.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK... 

This is my exact text to her.. 

"Cory's[my brother]old employer is looking someone in the accounting department and put my name in"

I figured it was short .. to the point and lack emotion..

I thought in the 180 you can still communicate if it was financial and direct.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK...
> 
> This is my exact text to her..
> 
> "Cory's[my brother]old employer is looking someone in the accounting department and put my name in"
> 
> I figured it was short .. to the point and lack emotion..
> 
> I thought in the 180 you can still communicate if it was financial and direct.


I wouldn't have texted that. 

What word on the Pizza Hut job?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK...
> 
> This is my exact text to her..
> 
> "Cory's[my brother]old employer is looking someone in the accounting department and put my name in"
> 
> I figured it was short .. to the point and lack emotion..
> 
> I thought in the 180 you can still communicate if it was financial and direct.


It's financial, but it's about YOUR job prospects.

So, she likely interprets this as asking for a head pat.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did some research on Pizza Hut and they like to work the General Manager to the bone.. like 60 or 70 hours a week.

I will bring this up at the next interview. If I don't get a good work/home balance then I'm not interested.

I want to be around to see my girls grow up not lining another persons pocket at the expense of my children.

Conrad: I can see that now. Maybe I was looking for a pat on the head.

I just started reading some parts of the Co-dependancy book and they are only talking about drunks and druggies that manipulate their women. If this is the mood of the rest of the book then I'm not interested. 

I don't do drugs, I don't smoke and I'm not a drinker.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I did some research on Pizza Hut and they like to work the General Manager to the bone.. like 60 or 70 hours a week.
> 
> I will bring this up at the next interview. If I don't get a good work/home balance then I'm not interested.
> 
> I want to be around to see my girls grow up not lining another persons pocket at the expense of my children.
> 
> Conrad: I can see that now. Maybe I was looking for a pat on the head.
> 
> I just started reading some parts of the Co-dependancy book and they are only talking about drunks and druggies that manipulate their women. If this is the mood of the rest of the book then I'm not interested.
> 
> I don't do drugs, I don't smoke and I'm not a drinker.


Focus on the manipulation part.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am manipulating her? I think she is manipulating me!!


----------



## happyman64

I think you deserve a drink after all this crap you have put up with!

No texts to her. She does not text you.

If you keep doing all the work and she does nothing what is in the relationship for you???

Exactly what she has put in... Nothing......


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I tend to agree..

Since she has been in control for so long I bet she was really taken back by me not trying to touch or hug or anything last week.

This NC is killing me right now. I have no idea when she scheduled the first MC.

I know I shouldn't care but still wonder WTF is going on in her head.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I tend to agree..
> 
> Since she has been in control for so long I bet she was really taken back by me not trying to touch or hug or anything last week.
> 
> This NC is killing me right now. I have no idea when she scheduled the first MC.
> 
> I know I shouldn't care but still wonder WTF is going on in her head.


Focus on what is going on in your head.

NC has been going for so long nothing you can do about it now.

Focus on you and your kids.


----------



## GutPunch

Read the book Conrad knows what he's talkking about.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> 1
> This NC is killing me right now. I have no idea when she scheduled the first MC.
> 
> I know I shouldn't care but still wonder WTF is going on in her head.


These feelings are how you CONFIRM codependence.


----------



## K.C.

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I am manipulating her? I think she is manipulating me!!


It is a big part of the essence of codependency in my opinion.

Yes we give. But why do we give? 

We give to "receive" something in return. So when we "do" something with that vested interest, we aren't doing out of kindness, we are "doing" to elicit the response we crave.

If I do this, she will be proud of me.
If I do this she will stop yelling.
If I do this she will appreciate me more.

It isn't the blunt, force manipulation the word generally evokes, it is much more subtle and insidious. But none the less, we are manipulating them. Even if a large part of it is subconscious, we are trying to get the reaction we want from them in our own way.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I can see that...


----------



## K.C.

The book and other resources can help you identify where the codependency comes from and then you can look to work on it.

It isnt that giving is bad.
Giving to receive and especially whilst sacrificing things you shouldn't or don't want to, to get the response you want is though.


----------



## K.C.

Also consider if it is really her manipulating you (she could well be doing it to you too - doesnt have to be one way) or, are you actually doing it for her by ceding ground to her to keep the peace or whatever.

When we put another's wishes above our own we are choosing that position. When we don't get the response we wanted, we feel resentment, I did all this and she couldn't even do that for me. Why do i bother, why does she keep tricking me into doing this stuff.

Truth is they don't need to trick us, we do it ourselves.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

well... I broke the NC again last night and I feel like crap about it this morning. I'm only coming clean about this because I hope I will learn to not do this if my new friends give me crap for doing this .

She has been dealing with setting up the MC.

This is the conversation.

Jason: 
did Christine say when our first marriage counseling session is?

Lisa:
I'm going alone..you need to do the same

Jason:
when do you start?

Lisa:
This week

Jason:
Are we splitting the cost?

Lisa:
I'm paying for me you can pay for you.... I put the 20 you already paid on your file its going to your first session

Jason:
You seem angry
?
I suppose you won't tell me what is wrong now?


No response.

I can't help but think that my 180 approach on the weekend has now pissed her off. I can't understand why.. she didn't want any touching or anything.. and that is what I gave her..

OK guys... time to let me have it full blast.


----------



## Conrad

You were ok (not great, but ok) until right here:




Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I suppose you won't tell me what is wrong now?
> 
> 
> No response.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What is meant from the lumber?


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> You were ok (not great, but ok) until right here:


:slap::banghead:


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Got it..

The good thing is she is actually going to counseling.

How the heck could I piss her off last weekend. she said she didn't want any sort of touching so that is what I did.. WTF.... 

Maybe she actually liked my touching her and she was taken back by my out of the blue coldness.


----------



## GutPunch

How about you focusing on you?

Quit trying to guess what she's thinking. 

I can tell you what she's thinking subconsciously.

Sad sure is needy and unattractive.

Please stop texting her. Please. Pretty please with sugar on top. 

Hit the gym. Read some books. Buy some new clothes. Something.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> How about you focusing on you?
> 
> Quit trying to guess what she's thinking.
> 
> I can tell you what she's thinking subconsciously.
> 
> Sad sure is needy and unattractive.
> 
> Please stop texting her. Please. Pretty please with sugar on top.
> 
> Hit the gym. Read some books. Buy some new clothes. Something.


All of this and in my humble opinion refile just do it. Shestill hasn't given you any child support right? No affection or intimacy at all right? Please do it and don't look back.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> What is meant from the lumber?


2x4 upside the head


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Got it..
> 
> The good thing is she is actually going to counseling.
> 
> How the heck could I piss her off last weekend. she said she didn't want any sort of touching so that is what I did.. WTF....
> 
> Maybe she actually liked my touching her and she was taken back by my out of the blue coldness.


Your focus is completely on her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

grrrrr..

I'm not filing until I see what happens in MC.

No she hasn't given me a dime for the girls. She might buy something once and a while but if we got to court and she had to show receipts.. she wouldn't have one.

Got a message back from my brother and this company he used to work for wants a resume. I would be an Accounts Payable/receivable Clerk.. day job with weekends off.

Pizza hut would have my working all the time including weekends and holidays. That would suck for my kids as I have always been around for them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Today. My mother is paying for my daughters braces. I texted Lisa cause she might have to take her if I can.'t

Jason:
Sarah's dentist appointment is April 18 at 8 am. 
I will need you to help me with the mortgage payment this month.

Lisa:
I don't have any money until I get paid next week as I have to pay for the councilor today... I will see what i can do but it wont be much

Jason:
well, I need money regardless as I don't have enough to cover it and all the other bills.

Lisa:
I will give you some when I get paid. Pay the mortgage and we'll look at the other bills this weekend.

Jason:
I'm telling you that I don't have enough for the mortgage. I barely have half of it.

Lisa:
Then I don't know what to tell you. I don't have enough..it'll just have to get paid on thu when I get paid.


End of conversation:

I figured there is no sense going on. Now she knows I need money and I didn't want it to turn into a fight. 
Just facts.. nothing else.
If I can learn to communicate this way all the time I would have half the drama that I have now.


----------



## Conrad

You went too far even with that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

how?


----------



## Conrad

>>Jason:
Sarah's dentist appointment is April 18 at 8 am. 
I will need you to help me with the mortgage payment this month.

Lisa:
I don't have any money until I get paid next week as I have to pay for the councilor today... I will see what i can do but it wont be much

Jason:
well, I need money regardless as I don't have enough to cover it and all the other bills.

Lisa:
I will give you some when I get paid. Pay the mortgage and we'll look at the other bills this weekend.<<

This was enough - stop right here.

Keep in mind, the mortgage is due on the 1st, correct? But, it's not late until after the 15th.

Pleading about how little money you have is not strength.

She was set to talk to you about it this weekend, and you kept going.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

got it.

The things is I get ZERO money from her and now I'm in a bind .. that sucks a$$


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> got it.
> 
> The things is I get ZERO money from her and now I'm in a bind .. that sucks a$$


"I'm not ok with our financial situation"

(Reserve this for a face-to-face chat)


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sounds good.

The last time I did say something like that she said
1. I have my own rent to pay
2. I have my own insurance to pay
3. I have to eat
4. I have to have gas money.

I said.. what if we were in court.. you would have to pay then. She said that you can't get blood from a stone.

WTF.

I have been looking like crazy for another job that would give me a steady paycheck. Lisa loves her job and is will to work part time so she can be happy working.


----------



## tom67

Just wondering, do you know (besides work) what does she do during the week. Have you ever made a surprise visit? I for one would on occasion. Just food for thought.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I actually did..

I was waiting for my interview.. I had time to spare.

I texted her just around the corner from her house to ask if she wanted to go for coffee. 

She said.. I just got in my comfy clothes and made lunch.

I told her.. I'm here..

Went in the house... she was in comfy clothes eating lunch... just like she said.


----------



## Wazza

Sad, I would do more than one visit to check on Lisa, for your own peace of mind.

Learning that she works part time increases my curiosity at what she does with the rest of her time. The fact that she wants separate counselling is also interesting. How do you know she is going vs just sending you.

Now, all of this is me being very suspicious. Quite possibly unfairly so, I admit that. I don't think you should co crazy on her but in your shoes I would put a little more effort into checking. If only to allay my fears.

You are a smart guy Sad. I am sure the same thoughts have occurred to you.

As for the money thing....well this will be a bit harsh. I am in a careers I was forced into by a need for a certain income. You are currently looking for a job based on your financial needs and Lisa's expectations. I expect the majority of the people on this board might have different working lives if money wasn't needed. So ultimately, while I am glad Lisa feels so good about a career that means she cannot pay her way, I would encourage her to rethink her position, and in the event of divorce I would not hesitate to put as much legal force as possible behind that encouragement.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I did notice in her statement earlier that she has us on separate accounts.

I talked to her about the lack of income on her part and she said that she didn't wanna get a second job because she wouldn't be able to do anything but work.

I told her that you have to make sacrifices in order to feed the children.

I told her that if we go back to court that she will certainly need a lawyer this time. I told her if she makes me look like a fool, then the fight is on.

I gave her the out last week. I said.. you can walk away now and we just go in and get it finalized or put some effort into this. That is way I made her sign us up for counseling not me. I needed her to show me that she is willing to try and fix things.

She said to me that she doesn't like how she feels about me and thinks MC is the only way to sort out her issues.

I had a friend verify that she is known as a very cold person at work and has turned down a few guys in the past during the split. Her only friends are work friends. 

After she turned down sex for this one guy in September that she was kinda dating... he made it quite know at work about Lisa's locked shut legs.


----------



## happyman64

Sad

Focus on you.



> She said to me that she doesn't like how she feels about me and thinks MC is the only way to sort out her issues.


Your wife does not even know how she feels about herself. She needs to fix her before she can ever know how she feels about you. 

ANd I highly doubt MC will sort her issues. I think it will probably lead to her needing IC.

In the end if she wants to have her separate life and not be married then she is going to have to kick in and help with the girls expenses.

And at the same time you need to stay focused on getting a better job so you can pay your bills as well as continue to be the primary caregiver.


----------



## Wazza

Look, I am on the horns of a dilemma in advising you. 

I believe in working at a marriage, and I encourage you to do that.

But I also believe in being strong and independent, and it seems when you are in Lisa's shadow you are not good at that. So you have work to do.

Right now I would advise you to work on the assumption that you are divorced, because that way you set up a structure based on you as independent. That means, for example, it is Lisa's choice what she does for work, but she has to pay the bills. It is not your job to dictate her career choices but it is your job to demand fairness.

Now, she is either cheating on you or she has other serious issues. If you want to cut her some slack while she is dealing with those issues then fine, but I would be wary about leaving that open ended. And I would check up on her cheating wise because that is a possibility. "Locked shut legs" at work may be that she is discreet and going elsewhere for love.

The challenge is to be suitably on guard without descending into paranoia. Not easy. And you have to be strong and detached to pull it off. Like you seemed to be before you reconciled.


----------



## tom67

I,m with Wazza she is either mentally imbalanced or she is cheating. Next time you think she is home just knock on the door then text. Insist on one session together if she says no file don't even tell her have her served at work. You can't live in limbo forever. When was the last time you 2 had sex?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She insists on IC and until her and her counselor decide for us to come together that is home it is gonna stay . She said that last week. We both need to work on our issues independently before coming together.

I'm gonna do the same but I don't have the money to start but she seems to cause she doesn't have to feed/cloth/or put a roof over her kids heads like i do.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I also can't understand why everyone on here always think everyone is having sex with someone...


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I also can't understand why everyone on here always think everyone is having sex with someone...


Because 8.9999% of the time they are.

I wish you were getting something. But take solace in the fact that you both father and mother to your kids most of the time.

So you have a good reason not to be getting some.


----------



## Wazza

tom67 said:


> I,m with Wazza she is either mentally imbalanced or she is cheating. Next time you think she is home just knock on the door then text. Insist on one session together if she says no file don't even tell her have her served at work. You can't live in limbo forever. When was the last time you 2 had sex?


I would not have said "mentally imbalanced". It is a possibility but I think more it might just be some sort of personal crisis.

Whatever it is, I don't think the current situation is sustainable.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

One thing she said to me a few weeks ago was she loves me but just can't get past the hate. she said she hope the IC can help her to see what is holding her back from loving me the way I should be.

That is one thing she said loud and clear two weeks ago. " I don't know if I can love you the way you want me to love you" then " I hope IC can help me find the thing that is blocking the feelings I should have for you"


----------



## tom67

I was thinking bipolar or bpd but I think the MLC mid life crisis is just an excuse to cheat but I agree this stringing him along has to be over for him and his kids he deserves better.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> One thing she said to me a few weeks ago was she loves me but just can't get past the hate. she said she hope the IC can help her to see what is holding her back from loving me the way I should be.
> 
> That is one thing she said loud and clear two weeks ago. " I don't know if I can love you the way you want me to love you" then " I hope IC can help me find the thing that is blocking the feelings I should have for you"


Raise your sex rank


----------



## foreverheartbroken

How long do you think it's reasonable, or comfortable for you to be staying in this mode; her living in a separate apartment and not paying for the childrens' support, while she goes to IC? How far into the future will it start to be MC, where the two of you go together?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> One thing she said to me a few weeks ago was she loves me but just can't get past the hate.


Why would she have hate towards you, that's such a strong word. What ever could you have done for her to feel hatred??


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Basically I think she expected us to be in a better financial state.. Better house, money in the bank, vacations.

I was injured once in 2003 and was off for 6 months.. then in 2005 I was re injured and was off ( but receiving compensation) until 2009 while I was retrained. Jobs were scarce in 2010 and in 2011 I took over the pizzeria while she started the job she is at now.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Basically I think she expected us to be in a better financial state.. Better house, money in the bank, vacations.
> 
> I was injured once in 2003 and was off for 6 months.. then in 2005 I was re injured and was off ( but receiving compensation) until 2009 while I was retrained. Jobs were scarce in 2010 and in 2011 I took over the pizzeria while she started the job she is at now.


Hm. I thought they married for better or worse in fact that sounds lame because if you two were together her standard of living would be better right because she wouldn't be p!ssing the money away with rent. I think she just wants to be single and you should grant her that wish and start getting some child support.


----------



## K.C.

It may sound lame but I think hate is a nice easy comfy emotion to slip into. Things are hard or going wrong, want to change the direction of your life? Find someone to hate for the current state. Spouse seems to be the natural choice. Seems to be working pretty well for my wife.


----------



## Conrad

K.C. said:


> It may sound lame but I think hate is a nice easy comfy emotion to slip into. Things are hard or going wrong, want to change the direction of your life? Find someone to hate for the current state. Spouse seems to be the natural choice. Seems to be working pretty well for my wife.


If she couldn't blame you, she'd have to look.... GASP... INWARD!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I asked her if she would take meds if prescribed. Her answer was a fast "NO" I don't like how they make me feel


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I asked her if she would take meds if prescribed. Her answer was a fast "NO" I don't like how they make me feel


Just stop


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

that was weeks ago...


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> that was weeks ago...


Jason,

What are YOU going to do?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thinking of telling her that until she drops her rules that she is not welcome in the house as we are not really married.

That is what I want to say.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thinking of telling her that until she drops her rules that she is not welcome in the house as we are not really married.
> 
> That is what I want to say.


Focus still on her.

C'mon

What are YOU going to do for YOU?

The hell with her.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thinking of telling her that until she drops her rules that she is not welcome in the house as we are not really married.
> 
> That is what I want to say.


Good go ahead tell her to contact you only via text about the kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was just going to tell her that I feel that we aren't really married right now and until she decides to drop her "rules" she is not welcome in the family home

I want to feel needed and like I matter and I don't right now.. I feel used and abused


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was just going to tell her that I feel that we aren't really married right now and until she decides to drop her "rules" she is not welcome in the family home
> 
> I want to feel needed and like I matter and I don't right now.. I feel used and abused


If I was talking like you are and you were at 50,000 feet advising me, would you say I was engaging in victimspeak?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

victimspeak? I don't understand


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> victimspeak? I don't understand


Your focus is completely on her and what she is or is not doing.

Do you matter to you?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

BUT... am I holding the kids hostage from her and using them as a pawn in this situation?

I'm taking away the children because she is withholding sex.

Seems like it could be interpreted like that and I don't want it to be like that.

I also have to see if her IC is giving her techniques to reach out to me. I don't know what she is doing with her.

That is also in my mind and if I cut her off while she is reaching out then I run risk of total failure.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Couldn't me cutting her visitation be seen as manipulative like it says in the codependacy book?


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Couldn't me cutting her visitation be seen as manipulative like it says in the codependacy book?


Of course it could.

Try your best to ignore it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I thought about driving to her house tonight and sit her down and say.

I'm tired of your rules, it has been 4 months and I see we are no farther than december and I feel until I figure out whether or not I can live with that arrangement I feel we should go back to saturday visitation with the children at your home and you stop coming to the family house. You obviously have issues you need to deal with and it is affecting our children seeing us disagree. 
I will not accept this arrangement any longer as it is not fair to me as a person to be treated this way from someone that says they love me.


----------



## GutPunch

Blah Blah Blah

It's time to file my man.

You talk too much.

And don't tell her just do it.

Time to get off the pot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Maybe time to kill this thread.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> BUT... am I holding the kids hostage from her and using them as a pawn in this situation?
> 
> I'm taking away the children because she is withholding sex.
> 
> Seems like it could be interpreted like that and I don't want it to be like that.
> 
> I also have to see if her IC is giving her techniques to reach out to me. I don't know what she is doing with her.
> 
> That is also in my mind and if I cut her off while she is reaching out then I run risk of total failure.


Please don't make your children a pawn in your battle with Lisa.

You have to either work out your marriage, settle for what you have, or divorce. That is between you guys. Your kids red their Mom.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Maybe time to kill this thread.


Why?

Of course you can, it is your thread.

But will killing it solve any problems?


----------



## GutPunch

Don't kill the thread.

You have got change your focus. 

She has left, not supporting her kids, possibly cheating.

The thought of sex with you is repulsive.

Will not attend MC with you and you are still hanging on.

Time to rock the boat. Stand up to her. See a lawyer. Demand support for your children. Don't think IDK how you feel. I lost 30 lbs in a couple months and I was slender before it fell off. I learned this stuff the hard way just like you are learning it. I have codepedency issues just like you do. Worrying about things you have no control over.

If you do not believe we know what we are talking about, take the time and read Bull Winkles thread or Regroups thread. Once you stand up to them they turn around. Doesn't mean they come back but they do at least take interest. Right now you are a sad sack in her eyes.

You are not PLan B or a doormat. Give defiant people what the want.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

GutPunch said:


> Blah Blah Blah
> 
> It's time to file my man.
> 
> You talk too much.
> 
> And don't tell her just do it.
> 
> Time to get off the pot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what i don't want... don't mock me in such a way.

I have told you people my deepest feeling on here. Don't make me regret it by having someone treat me with disrespect


----------



## GutPunch

My apologies

You are however refusing to listen.

Do not talk to this woman anymore unless she flat out begs you to.

Children and finances only. Don't ever answer the phone. Let her leave a message. Give her a chance to miss you.

Insist on a set no changes child visitation schedule and stick to it.

I am not mocking you...I am taking time out of my horribly busy schedule to help you only because I know the pain you are feeling.


----------



## tom67

GutPunch said:


> My apologies
> 
> You are however refusing to listen.
> 
> Do not talk to this woman anymore unless she flat out begs you to.
> 
> Children and finances only. Don't ever answer the phone. Let her leave a message. Give her a chance to miss you.
> 
> Insist on a set no changes child visitation schedule and stick to it.
> 
> I am not mocking you...I am taking time out of my horribly busy schedule to help you only because I know the pain you are feeling.


Sad look in the cwi section please. One phrase that is a constant is "You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it" is it a guarantee you can? No but if you don't in your case it's all but dead already. Jason my friend show her and your kids some strength and file again jmo, sorry.


----------



## K.C.

It really isn't mockery.

You cannot "talk" her round.

I know you wont listen to us until yo can listen to yourself. but you need to let go. All that matters now is you and your kids. Her waking up and coming back may be a bonus but that's all it is. You do not need her. You do not need to be needed by her.

You want to feel needed? Good job you are a parent. Thats who needs you right there.

If you are tired of her rules and stalling reinforce your boundaries and refile. She is the walk away, why does she get to dictate terms?


----------



## foreverheartbroken

Everyone in this thread is standing up for respectful treatment of others and fairness. We want you to be treated fairly. The ultimate goal for anyone here in a thread is to help someone (you in this case) through a problem so he/she (you) can be happy again. Only YOU can let that happen. To make that happen, you open up to people and let their advice in. We only want to help you, not hurt you. Only you are hurting yourself by allowing this unfair treatment (from Lisa). You won't be so sad and stressed anymore if you be a friend to yourself and see to it that you are treated respectfully and fairly.


----------



## Laba

No one here is disrespecting you. Quite opposite - everyone hopes that next time they log in they see strong, independent(not codependent) you, who takes steps to better himself for a change instead of being a pleaser. 
You feel angry at TAMmers because basically everyone is saying - unless you respect yourself and demand that respect from others and instead of accepting "rules" start making them, your wife will not have a turnaround. Every relationship in our lives is about respect - first and foremost for yourself.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> One thing she said to me a few weeks ago was she loves me but just can't get past the hate. she said she hope the IC can help her to see what is holding her back from loving me the way I should be.
> 
> That is one thing she said loud and clear two weeks ago. " I don't know if I can love you the way you want me to love you" then " I hope IC can help me find the thing that is blocking the feelings I should have for you"


She has known that she felt this way about you--this is why she left. She conned you into stopping the divorce proceedings, J.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

If anyone can get "blood from a stone", the judge can. Over here, the alternative is jail time. Is that what it would take to motivate her to pay child support?!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Last night I told Lisa I want to take a break until we are both done our IC and ready for MC. I told her that I don't want her back at the house until she is ready to be my wife.

Lots happened in the last few days that I'm not gonna put on here as I seem to get nailed to the cross when I give details.

Starting next week she is going to start giving my child support because it is getting busier at work. 

I did this.. not her. 

we are not filing for divorce. Just taking a break from each other.


----------



## happyman64

Good for you Sad. I think that was a smart decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fisherman

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Last night I told Lisa I want to take a break until we are both done our IC and ready for MC. I told her that I don't want her back at the house until she is ready to be my wife.
> 
> Lots happened in the last few days that I'm not gonna put on here as I seem to get nailed to the cross when I give details.
> 
> Starting next week she is going to start giving my child support because it is getting busier at work.
> 
> I did this.. not her.
> 
> we are not filing for divorce. Just taking a break from each other.


Did you start your new job?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Last night I told Lisa I want to take a break until we are both done our IC and ready for MC. I told her that I don't want her back at the house until she is ready to be my wife.
> 
> Lots happened in the last few days that I'm not gonna put on here as I seem to get nailed to the cross when I give details.
> 
> Starting next week she is going to start giving my child support because it is getting busier at work.
> 
> I did this.. not her.
> 
> we are not filing for divorce. Just taking a break from each other.



Well...This is definitely a step in the right direction.
Congrats!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Its not permanent... just until we get through counseling.

It's not congrats... it suck a$$


----------



## Wazza

Hang in there.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Its not permanent... just until we get through counseling.
> 
> It's not congrats... it suck a$$


Kinda similar to severly punishing one of your kids. It tears you up inside but it has to be done.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

yes.. it had to be done


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I pray that I can get into counseling this week. 
I'm making a list of things I would like help with.

1. Codependency
2. Saying mean things in spite
3. Learning to shut the hell up when things are getting bad
4. To learning to forgive her for the affair she had 13 years ago
5. Ways to keep my moods from drifting in and out of sadness.
6. Dealing with my $hitty upbringing

There probably are more. This is MY list. She can deal with her issues and I don't really care what the two of them talk about as she puts effort into it.

I've never been in IC so I have no idea how it works.

I spent the whole day outside cleaning up the yard. I feel sad.. but the sun feels nice.


----------



## deejov

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I pray that I can get into counseling this week.
> I'm making a list of things I would like help with.
> 
> 1. Codependency
> 2. Saying mean things in spite
> 3. Learning to shut the hell up when things are getting bad
> 4. To learning to forgive her for the affair she had 13 years ago
> 5. Ways to keep my moods from drifting in and out of sadness.
> 6. Dealing with my $hitty upbringing
> 
> There probably are more. This is MY list. She can deal with her issues and I don't really care what the two of them talk about as she puts effort into it.
> 
> I've never been in IC so I have no idea how it works.
> 
> I spent the whole day outside cleaning up the yard. I feel sad.. but the sun feels nice.


Awesome. Thanks for sharing this, and I hope things go well for you. (not awesome that you feel sad, but that you have a plan).

Hang in there. You are making some first steps. That's what counts. You are doing something. You are taking action. I can't give people enough credit for that! Huge huge pat on the back.Anyone who takes those steps to take action for their own life... shows courage.
Roar the lion.


----------



## Wazza

Didn't know about the affair.

How long between that and when your marriage went bad this time around? Are the two related?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The two aren't related but is coming up in MC. 

The affair was in 1999... my marriage went south in 2008. It is one of those things that we never really dealt with so I'm excited to get it dealt with in IC.. and MC

I told her yesterday that it WILL be talked about in MC so she better be prepared to answer questions.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The two aren't related but is coming up in MC.
> 
> The affair was in 1999... my marriage went south in 2008. It is one of those things that we never really dealt with so I'm excited to get it dealt with in IC.. and MC
> 
> I told her yesterday that it WILL be talked about in MC so she better be prepared to answer questions.


You are discussing it, that is the main thing. Don't assume they are not related though. My wife's affair was 23 years ago and it still causes problems.

Telling her be prepared to answer questions suggests you think she never came clean?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't have many.

I suppose on the issues with the affair thing is that my brother never apologized. He said to my mother that it was consensual between two people and I should get over it. 

A friend of mine that just finished counseling gave me a book called 
"Grace and Forgiveness..Learning to give the gift of forgiveness to others and ourselves"

He said it changed his life after his wife had an EA with a guy.


----------



## Entropy3000

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My wife has been upset about finances. She also had her father die suddenly three weeks ago in a car wreck. We have been married just under 14 years.
> 
> She went away for the weekend with her girlfriends and told them she was thinking about leaving me. She told them she still loved me just couldn't stay any longer.
> 
> She came home from her trip on the Saturday. We went shopping like always and had a great BBQ. On Sunday we took the kids to camp. From that moment on she stopped talking to me. I didn't say anything thinking it would make it worse.
> 
> On Tuesday I came home from work to find her stuff gone and a letter on the counter. She said we both know it's over, I was a good man and take care of myself. She needs to be free. She is 34 I am 40.
> 
> Only three weeks earlier she was all over me telling me she loved me more than ever, during the July 1st weekend we cuddled watching the fireworks with our kids.
> 
> Now she's gone.
> 
> It has been a week and we haven't spoken. She left me with an 8 year old and 12 year old girl. She is living with a friend from work and I know she is struggling since she only works part time.
> 
> I just wan her to come home. We are partners in a business everything we have is in joint accounts. She has only seen the kids once in two weeks and says to my daughter in a text that she might see them next week.
> 
> So far the girls are doing ok.


You sir are being screwed. Just not in the right way. Good luck to you and your daighters.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Entropy3000.. did you read the whole thing or just the first post.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't have many.
> 
> I suppose on the issues with the affair thing is that my brother never apologized. He said to my mother that it was consensual between two people and I should get over it.
> 
> A friend of mine that just finished counseling gave me a book called
> "Grace and Forgiveness..Learning to give the gift of forgiveness to others and ourselves"
> 
> He said it changed his life after his wife had an EA with a guy.


Man that is hard. I won't say what I think of your brother.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We haven't spoke since 2008.

According to my mother he said "I should get over it".

For some reason my mother thinks it is Lisa that caused it.

Here is some history of my brother.
1. Got one of my ex girlfriends pregnant when she was 16 and he was 21. She had an abortion.

2. Got divorced because he slept with his wife's best friend.

3. Slept with a mother of a kid on his daughters soccer team while he was living with another lady.

4. An old girlfriend of his was a friend of mine. she had terrible cancer working threw her. her and her husband split and my brother was at her house the next day after haven't seen her for over 10 years. The lady eventually died of the cancer at 39 .

5. He had a history of going after most of my ex-girlfriend during my teen years.

6. Can not coach girls hockey ( he was the coach of his daughters team) as a few kids complained to their parents that he was a little too "Friendly" ( ie.. wanted the girls to sit on his lap..etc.)

7. Now this is just what I think ..but....while he lived with this lady her daughter was an early bloomer and very pretty. He used to take her shopping.. buy her "girl supplies" and she ( the young girl ) had a habit of not wearing much when he was around. ( no underwear.. no bra.. just a nighty) 
You draw your own conclusions of what I'm thinking.

He is a bottom feeder. My wife and I had issues in our first year and did all the things I wasn't doing. It like he took notes our our issues so he could be her Prince Charming.

Lisa hates him so bad and is embarrassed that he roped her in. When she broke the news to me in 2008... she said that he kept asking for sex right up until my youngest was 3 and her and I were planning the second one. He even asked if they could get together at a family Christmas while I was there... who does that.

Lisa won't even be in the same building as him. If she knows he will be there she will cancel the visit. 

well.. that's my big brother that is 4 years older that I worshiped as a kid.  What sucks is that I missed most of the niece and nephew growing up because of it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My E-mail last night to Lisa:

Lisa:

I feel absolutely terrible right now. My anxiety is through the roof, my self worth is getting very low. I need to open my feelings to you. Please don’t take this as a dump but as me reaching out to you before I go into therapy. I have a large list of issues I want to deal with on my own. Things that keep me from being the best I can be as a Husband, a Father and as a provider. Many of those issues I’m not going to discuss here. I had to look in myself and look for the problems in myself that make me unhappy, angry and unproductive.

Lisa..the time I have spent with you since December have been wonderful. I know the issues we currently face make it seem like we have not made any steps forward but I feel we have. We talk more about our issues then we did for years before our separation. During this time we have both thrown rocks at each other. We both still feel terribly uncomfortable with each other. You have ideas of what you think I want and I have the same feeling back towards you. It has done nothing but drive barriers between us.

Since I talk too much when we are together and that makes you angry and I just don’t know when to stop, I felt I would like to let you know what I think and how I feel at this one moment. I’ll try to do this in sections.

1. I’m scared:

To be honest..I’m scared to let you into my heart. I love you with all my heart but you left me and the girls. I felt abandoned, lonely, mad and scared. I understand you reasons. I don’t say that any one of your reasons are incorrect.

Unfortunately since December every step forward I always finding myself taking three steps backwards. I go from excited to scared to sad all in one weekend.

I wonder daily why you want me back. Why you want me when I gave you reasons to leave me? Will you leave me again and if you do.. will you do it differently and will I lose my kids next time?

The space between us right now seems like an ocean.. and I feel like I’m drowning.

2. Your secret life:

You have friends I don’t know. You won’t friend me on FB. Now you have a new secret life. You said you want to keep that to yourself. With secrecy comes uncertainty. Why is she hiding her relationship with me from her friends. Is there really another man/woman that I have yet to find out about. Are you embarrassed or think I will be upset if I find out you did something during our separation? All of these seem far fetched, but I think you understand my curiosity. To be honest I feel you are embarrassed about having me as your husband. I have not achieved everything you hoped from me or attained the level of lifestyle you expected at this point in our marriage. Your friends are doing better financially than us so you need to distance your life and home with me from them. In some ways I believe that you think I am a chronic underachiever.

3. My lack of achievement:

I can honestly say that at the companies I worked for I did well. I was a foreman for Ken twice, but failed to make headway in the other positions such as Waste Management.
I will say that although my bank account doesn’t reflect it.. I think I have done quite well.

I did not ask to be injured. In many ways I feel that I lost much of my confidence at that point. Although I can not go back in time.. my need for counseling should have started way back then. I accept full responsibility for the terrible financial bind I put us in. I did make a promise to pay off our debt while we had a considerable amount of money coming in the house. It was 10 bucks here, 50 bucks there,…. I bled us dry then refused to put blame on myself.

I do understand that since the year of our marriage, I have not given you a paycheques that you can budget on. I was seasonal and/or hurt.

I can not go back in time but for me I feel my own healing is tell you that I understand what I did. I can not apologize. I can only go forward and set a new goals for myself to get to that point that I should have achieved years ago. 

I’m sorry that I didn’t get a great job out of school. It forced us to refinance our mortgage which makes it terribly difficult to buy you a new home that you can be proud of. I could use the economy as an excuse but you know the amount of work I put into trying to find something through networking and job ads.

I will tell you for certain that I will achieve a better life for myself and the girls. The problem is .. will you wait.. or help in that process? Will you be by my side when it does happen?

I suppose only time will tell. I really hope that you will.

3. I put a ton of effort into trying to get over you:

When you left I went through a million emotions. I was now a single dad raising two young girls on his own and trying to run a business and home on his own. I honestly thought my head was going to explode. I was turning forty, dumped and no strong future ahead.

Although Sharon fed the fire, she was there for a hug, a birthday cake and friendship. Mark helped where he could, my mom wasn’t any help but dad was awesome for support.

I found a friend online that talked to me 12 hours a day. Her marriage was on the rocks. She was planning a divorce and already found a kind friend that turned in her boyfriend after the divorce. She would prop me up when I felt down. As an avid pizza lover, I would try recipes she gave me then send her a video of it and we would laugh if I burnt it.

She was my true back bone through my darkest days.. I was hers..

By September I was starting to get back on my feet again. My angry was gone but my sadness stayed. I started having coffees with a few people I met but it was a terrible experience so I stopped doing that. I tried to read as much as I could about getting over a failed marriage, techniques for picking yourself up and ended up jacking up my meds to compensate for the intense unhappiness I felt. I was down to 3 hours a night sleep. I had to constantly tell customer I was cutting onions when I was really bawling into a towel just as they came in.


4. The Court battle

I only served you to start a healing process. You made it clear you had no intention or coming home or too be married to me. The timing of it being the day before our anniversary was not planned. I made errors on the paperwork the week before and I did rush it to make sure it didn’t coincide with our anniversary. I cried as he walked in the building as I knew I was ending my own marriage. I didn’t want to do it but the uncertainty between us was killing me. I felt that was the only way to start closure. It was not meant to be mean, it was only for me heart. If you didn’t want me.. I had to let you go. You know the cliché that if you love someone..set them free?

The words I used in court was scripted. My coaching was the source of my anger toned words. At that point I had to protect what I had left. My girls were all I had. The woman across from me in the court room did not want me as a spouse and wanted to take my children. There was no way in hell I was going to allow that.



It was surreal. The first day in Court we stood at the same side of each other in front of someone that had the legal right to effect us as a couple. The first time was a Pastor, the last time a Judge.

My ability to keep from crying in court was almost more than I could stand. I had to stand by the script that I was told to use to keep my children. I had to forget the love I still had for you. I tried to not watch you walk down the sidewalk as you left. It was my marriage walking away in the distance to start a new life without me.

I became consumed as the court dates came and went. I had detailed notes, most of the paperwork ( except the briefing that I kept forgetting) was competed within hours of leaving court.

I would pace in the pizzeria practicing my lines. I would have Lisa P act as a Judge to try and slip my up. I would do a rewrite and try again. I would stop only hours before court.

As I sat at the opposite end of the courthouse I’d watch you get a drink of water, or walk back and forth to the washroom. I would chew my nails to the bone mostly because I had to be in the same room as you. I wasn’t scared about the judge or the proceeding cause I practiced that.. I was scared to see you as that is a feeling that you can not prepare for. You would walk in the room, I would get chills. I would try everything I had to not look at you. I could feel your anger from across the room.

I would cry as you loaded the children in the car during visitation. I could see the joy you got from seeing your children as any parent would. I knew the love you felt for them. I told them daily that you loved them and Mommy and Daddy will deal with our issues when the time comes.

The last court date. You looked at me, walked to me and took me in the same arm in arm as the first day we started dating. The words you spoke flooded me with joy and fear. I had no idea what to do.,. where to go, what to say, how to feel. I sat across from you for coffee and had no idea how to feel. Should I be happy for this opportunity or be angry for her coming back after the work I put into trying to forget her.

Your timing confused me. In my mind I thought of a few things.
* It was close to Christmas so of course she wanted more time with her Children yet had no money for presents
* The judges were getting hard on you for the child support you could not afford
* If she hated my in July.. why would she want me now… mostly after the tone in court
* Do I want to go through this again?
* What has she done during our separation that might effect our reconciliation
* How will my family adjust to her coming home ( I didn’t care cause it is my life)
* Is there a man in the background that she isn’t tell me about
* Am I strong enough to do this?
* How do I act?
* What does she want from me?
* How do I keep her from hurting the kids again?
* What do I tell the kids?

The biggest question
** What is her motive for wanting to fix our issues. In the end will I get screwed in this deal that will hurt me ten times worst than the first time.

Right now I am still dealing with a few of these questions.
* How do I act
* What does she want from me?

5. Geoff

As much as you don’t believe it, the issue with Geoff is really an issue between him and me. Other than the question I posed and you responded on Friday, I have totally forgiven you for that many many years ago. I knew the truth in 2003 before we even tried to have Amie. I wouldn`t have wanted another child with you if I didn’t forgive you. In the midst of my depressed self absorbed stupor I just needed to hear it from you as closure in 2008.

Now I hope that my Independent Councillor can help me to forgive him for what he did. Until I can do that I don’t think I can put it to rest in my heart. Although I will forgive him, I don’t have to have him in my life. I just need to tell him that I will not allow the pain he gave me to effect the relationship I have with you.

I can tell you I forgive you but until I forgive him there is no closure. I need to realize that your affair was unavoidable the same way our separation was also unavoidable as my lake of attention to my marriage caused both issues.

I know you weren’t looking for sex. I was ignoring your deepest needs, neglected you and left you feeling unappreciated. Doesn’t that sound familiar? Those are the same reasons you gave for leaving me. He filled that need. The sex was the result for him fulfilling the empty needs you had at the time not the goal.

My comment was mean and evil. A person that says that does not show the person that they love that they forgive them. I actually drove a nail in your heart. You considered it closed and I used it as a tool to make you feel as awful as I do. For that.. I’m sorry L


6. Where we stand now

I am so confused. I try to take your set of rules for your personal protection rather than a direct shot at me as a man. To be rejected in such a way is something that does make a person wonder.

* Am I ugly… ( then why does she want me?)
* Am I bad at sex or inadequate since she might have had another man during the separation? ( which there is nothing I can do since we weren’t a couple during that time so I can’t really hold that against her..but will she be looking for that in the future leaving me dumped again)
* Is this a controlling mechanism. Like dangling a carrot in front of a horse to make the horse act a certain way.
* You said I am free to seek sex from other women ( why the hell would I want to do that?)
* Is this truly how my marriage will be “’til death do us part”
* My insecurities from your lack of feedback makes me act irrational but I really don’t know where I stand.
*Am I just “for now” until something better comes along.
* You default answer is “I don’t know”. That leaves me in limbo. At least when you left it was one action that I could go off of. “I don’t know” is an unfair reaction to a situation that leaves the other person dangling from a rope and losing grip quickly. The default reaction is to defend themselves… which seems to be my default reaction.

7. Marriage Counseling

The main them I am looking from marriage counseling is pure honesty. We both have a ton of baggage that we will be dumping on the poor counselor. That is why she is paid well though.

I hope for:
* Communication that doesn’t result in angry and hurt feeling.
* Techniques to communicate in such a way that we can get through issue completely and not let it linger or be brought up again
* Let you into my heart and me into yours

* Allow me the confidence that you are truly interested in being my wife again.
* Allow us to be comfortable enough to be intimate again

I intend to open up as much as I can in Marriage Counseling . I hope you do to.

8. From here on..

I realize my co-dependency issues. That will be a big topic during my Independent Counseling. The worry I have is that in the past you have issues with admitting that you have lingering issue that need to be dealt with. I wish you the best of luck with your counseling since you are paying them.. dump it all like I am going do since in the end I think it will be worth it. Or so I hope for.

I do understand that my moods have flip flopped over the last few weeks. At the current moment I feel rejected and used. I am merely a person that is here while you visit with the children. I could be wrong and if so that is something I will have to deal with. You haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise. It is on my long list for when we finally get together in counseling.

I just don’t feel love from you. I don’t mean in the physical sense, I mean in demeanor and tone. You are short tempered, blunt and sometimes rude to me. For someone that is trying to return from the middle of a divorce and trying reconciliation, the feeling don’t seem to be there.

I really don’t think you know how disappointed I am with the lack of progress of my job search. You have said that we can cohabitate if I can get you a home outside of Bothwell. The lack of opportunities leaves me thinking that it will be months or more until I can wake up every day to see your beautiful face in your housecoat drinking a coffee and be the last face I see before I close my eyes.

I hope you read this far. Feel free to use it if it helps in you Independent Counseling as everything I said in here is true.

I would like to rescind you not coming here on weekends and would love the opportunity to discuss that when you get a chance. I know how angry you are at me right now over my comments on Friday.

I don’t expect a response. Please don’t take this as dumping.

You don’t normally allow me time to tell you this much info.

Take this however you want. But know I have just told you lots of things from my heart. I am not good at it.. but I tried my best tonight.

I look forward to our journey and the time can’t come quick enough until I can honestly and truly say that you are my wife. Right now we aren’t boyfriend/girlfriend.

I know to love someone that person has to love themselves. I was starting to love myself then lost touch with that feeling during this whole process. I’m fighting to regain the confidence that made me strong before we decided on reconciliation.

Jason


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Tonight.. here is the texts from today. Letter sent last night

Jason:

I sent you an important letter by email yesterday. I would like you to read it. Please reply with confirmation that you received it. Out of respect I would like a reply. We are still married and it is impossible to keep ignoring our situation.
I am dealing with a serious impasse that needs to be dealt with.

Lisa: 

I got your email i read it briefly..I will look at it more closely later I put in 8 hours today I'm not used to it and there are some things I need to do around the house.

Jason :

Can you please tell me why you skipped dinner with us [Easter]last night. Sarah [my oldest] was very upset.

(no response)

4 hours later.....

Jason:
Have you read it?

Hour later...


Jason:
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of you not answering your phone or answering my texts.
I want to deal with some issues and you ignore it.

Lisa:
I'm getting pretty sick of you attacking me. I don't want to talk to you tonight I'm too tired to deal with you. ... talk to your therapist

Jason:
Maybe we should talk to a judge instead. You don't seem to want to even try to remotely fix this.

Lisa:

That's always your solution...talk to your therapist..you can't keep changing your mind about things.

Jason:

I bet you didn't even read it. 4 more hours wasted on trying to repair my marriage while you do nothing.

Lisa:

I did look at it.there is too much to absorb all at once..I am calling to make an appt with my therapist tomorrow to talk to her about it.

Jason:

So it was a waste of time

All I wanted to do was to open up to you..so I did. was that wrong to do?


End of bull$hit conversation.


----------



## Wazza

Sorry, but I agree with her Sad. You can't keep changing your mind.

I don't understand how you can say



> I don’t expect a response. Please don’t take this as dumping.


then open your text conversation with



> I sent you an important letter by email yesterday. I would like you to read it. *Please reply with confirmation that you received it. Out of respect I would like a reply.* We are still married and it is impossible to keep ignoring our situation.
> I am dealing with a serious impasse that needs to be dealt with.


Whatever your course of action...reconciliation or divorce.....you need to set a path and stick to it.


----------



## 06Daddio08

You're right. I see a lot of BS, doubt we will agree on which end it stems from though.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

BS from me?

I can see her therapist just say.. dump his ass ..


----------



## GutPunch

There is no getting thru to you is there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

You know Sad over 1000 posts in this thread and we learn about your you, your wife and your marriage in your last email to your wife and her response to you.

You dropped a ton on her head. Maybe she did the same to you.

But you will both never get your marriage back at all if you do not fix yourselves.

And your marriage will never last if you both don't stop the rug sweeping.

And while you and your wife both feel that you each have suffered so much, I cannot even fathom how your two girls have suffered watching the two of you push, pull, attract, oppose, fight, makeup, ignore and then re-establish contact.

You two need to kill this old marriage.

And then decide together if you want a new relationship, a friendship or just to coparent together.

All 3 will take forgiveness of your wife. You say you have. But I do not think she feels that you have.

I also think your wife has not forgiven herself.

You have to start somewhere. And seeking guidance from your counselor is wife.

But hiding behind your counselors is not.

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She doesn't feel that I forgave her. I guess only counseling will help her with this.

I do feel for the girls. I had to stop her coming to the house as it was starting to affect me.. make me angry and uncomfortable. I tried to save the girls from hearing mom and dad get angry at each other after they go to bed.

I hope since the holiday weekend is over, I need to start with my counselor. I think I have a ton of issues i have to deal with. I'm not ashamed to say i need help 

I swear that yesterday I was SO ready to refile. She makes me so angry that I just wanna be done with this. The last two times I said that I think i wanna just be done she responds with .. talk to your therapist. She doesn't take the threat seriously.. I filed once...why wouldn't I do it again? 

I'm gonna start leaving my cell phone at home to take away the urge to text her. Cell phones are evil as it makes communication WAY too easy.


----------



## Conrad

I would also add there is nothing guaranteed to be "less" productive than whining you just spent X hours trying to save the marriage while someone else didn't do X.

That's complete victim triangle stuff.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I start therapy next Wed.


----------



## K.C.

I started the day I rocked up to on TAM.

You can focus on you here rather than her, it helps.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

The fact that she skipped Easter dinner with her daughters speaks louder than all of the dysfunction. Her children aren't her priority--what more about her character do you need to know?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is just a hypothesis but.. I wonder if her therapist told her to stop responding if my texts sound angry. She said that twice last week.

" I will not respond to you because you sound angry"

The thing was I wasn't angry... just annoyed. 

Between myself and another member of TAM we both think that I didn't say anything harmful in my long letter ( other than requesting a response when in the letter I said no response is needed) which I think is a bi-product of my co-dependency issues. I did ask fro her to use it in therapy so I dug my own grave if something is wrong. At some point I had to dump my feelings anyways so why not sit and think about them and put them on paper instead of trying to remember everything on the point in my therapy session. I will bring a copy for myself and my therapist too just like she is doing. I'm more forthcoming with info than her.

I stopped contacting her and actually yesterday and today my anxiety is super low and I feel pretty good.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

3 days no contact.. I think its a record..

Keeping busy.. found some jobs to apply for, feeling pretty good


----------



## greenfern

Hi Sad I have been following your story but haven't posted yet - it is one of the most frustrating stories I have read on TAM (which says a lot!). 

I really think you doing NC with your wife is necessary to help you get over her. She doesn't sound like she wants to be in the marriage and you sound like you are grasping at any thread of hope to indicate she might change her mind. I (like a lot of others here I think!) would love to see you stand up & just stop communicating with her other than what is *really* necessary for the children. Right now she has all the power in the relationship and IMHO you need to take that power back so you can move on.

All the best.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks for your response.

I just talked to my friend who had her husband walk out. Just like me she insisted on Marriage counseling. They are doing much better.. I don't know if I see this happening in mine.

I will be starting counseling starting next Wednesday. I'm going to stay in NC until at least after I talk to him. 

I have felt so much better without the crap I get from her in texts.

The nice thing about doing the kid swap at the Pizzeria is that there is a front door and back door. I'm gonna drop them off at the front door and they can run through and get in their mothers car at the back. Same going on picking them up.

I'm going to do everything I can to stop communication with her.

I have lots planned while the kids are visiting to keep my mind occupied.

Thanks for reading the ups and downs of my life.


----------



## GutPunch

Now that you have stopped communicating with her, you can take your focus off of her and put it on you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep... racing season starts in a few weeks and I need to get my racer ripped down for some paint and upgrades.

I want another trophy soon.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

BTW.. this is what I race..


----------



## Conrad

Soapbox Derby?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lawnmower racing.... my is a lower class racer.. goes about 40 mph on a 150 ft straight..

Circle track racing.

This was last January when I was actually happy and getting along with Lisa. Battle Creek Michigan.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... made it all week no contact. 

My daughter texted her to come and stay the weekend ( I didn't tell her to do it) cause she wanted to show her a project she is making for school.

She texted back to tell her she would pick her up in the morning at the house and see it then. She didn't send anything to me though. I'm not going to message her to talk about. I'm gonna leave an hour before she is supposed to be here and make a run to the dump. No sense being here with her. Maybe stop for lunch.. then I'm going to a friends house for morning coffee. 

The counselors called here and left a message to talk to Lisa . I called them back and gave them her cell number and told them she doesn't live here and to call her on her cell if they want to speak to her.

I am gonna work on my own projects tomorrow and enjoy the day.. it's supposed to be nice out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks for the response. 

I'll update first. I left the house before she came for the children.

I had a nice day working on projects..

At 7 pm my daughter sends me a text." Where do you want to meet us for us to come home?"

I replied. " That is for your mother to ask..not you"

Lisa replies" Where do you want to meet us then?"

I replied "I haven't decided"

Lisa replies" Can you please let me know so I can have them back on time"

I waited 15 minutes and replied "House"

Lisa: "ok 8:30"

I said yes.

She brought the kids home and came in.. I stayed in the other room and said nothing. She seemed to stand there and didn't leave right away. I didn't budge.

She finally left.

I need to hold steadfast on what I am doing. I see my therapist on Wed. Till then I'm keeping my mouth SHUT.

____________________________________________________

On to your part about the girls. My oldest hates it and was getting used to seeing her 2 days and 1 night. Now both my girls only see her on Saturdays. They don't like it but I couldn't have her poison around the house anymore.

The more I keep my mouth shut the better I feel each day. I know this is a signal but.............


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. it's been a week of no contact.

At what point do either of us start to talk to each other about our reconciliation.

I'm having a hard time seeing what my NC is doing to better our reconciliation


----------



## 06Daddio08

May I ask what exactly has changed in the week of NC from her end? Wasn't one of the biggest issues the fact that even during reconciliation, 'nothing' was happening?

Seems to be the same here, no? You haven't heard a thing from her, you've waited a while, and now you're getting the itch to act. Once again.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have no idea what changed from her end cause I haven't been in contact with her.

I don't understand what you mean by "getting the itch to act" .

Should I be waiting for her to act to see if she is serious about reconciliation?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have no idea what changed from her end cause I haven't been in contact with her.
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "getting the itch to act" .
> 
> Should I be waiting for her to act to see if she is serious about reconciliation?





> At what point do either of us start to talk to each other about our reconciliation.


What is left for you to do, but continue on with your NC? You tried to reconcile for a while and you clearly were not happy with how it was going. So why, after only a week, would you start contacting her again?


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK.. it's been a week of no contact.
> 
> At what point do either of us start to talk to each other about our reconciliation.
> 
> I'm having a hard time seeing what my NC is doing to better our reconciliation


Sad, the logic is that both of you have to want reconciliation or it won't happen.

You have gone to a lot of effort. Do you feel she has reciprocated? Do you feel you have something to say that you have not already said? Have you considered the possibility that you might not be able to reconcile?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Wazza... you make a good point. By her setting "rules" she tainted the reconciliation. 

I suppose I do know one thing she has done this week. She called to make another appointment with her therapist. I know that cause they called her looking for her. Of course I gave them her number. I suppose the fact that she is continuing with her therapy is a good sign.

She is a very proud person. It takes a TON for her to admit that something is wrong. That is why it took her to the court date in Dec to tell me that she wanted to work on it when she really wanted to fix things in Sept.

I suppose the extra two months of NC made her come around..but it was during a divorce proceedings. Now I don't have that pressure on her cause I cancelled it to show her that I was willing to work on it too.

I suppose to be honest.. I miss her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

One thing I also did was to stop posting ANYTHING on facebook. She knew everything about me during our split during court because we have the same friends on Facebook.

To stop that I told everyone last Monday that I was taking a Facebook Holiday.

It has been actually nice to not post or feel the need to post all the time. I spend maybe a 1/4 of the time I used to on Facebook as I used to.

Facebook is evil during a break-up.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Can anyone give me an idea on what to expect when I go to my first IC session on Wednesday? I'm actually nervous about this.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Wazza... you make a good point. By her setting "rules" she tainted the reconciliation.
> 
> I suppose I do know one thing she has done this week. She called to make another appointment with her therapist. I know that cause they called her looking for her. Of course I gave them her number. I suppose the fact that she is continuing with her therapy is a good sign.
> 
> She is a very proud person. It takes a TON for her to admit that something is wrong. That is why it took her to the court date in Dec to tell me that she wanted to work on it when she really wanted to fix things in Sept.
> 
> I suppose the extra two months of NC made her come around..but it was during a divorce proceedings. Now I don't have that pressure on her cause I cancelled it to show her that I was willing to work on it too.
> 
> I suppose to be honest.. I miss her.


I know. But missing her isn't enough.

Look most of us are reading things as saying that she isn't interested. But we don't understand her issues. So you have to make the call. 

At what point do you give up? What is your minimum to stay together?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Since she has started counselling and I start Wednesday.. I want to at least see if that helps. 

I know last week I told her that I was getting sick of this and that I was thinking about filing (which I was)... her answer to everything was "talk to your therapist" which really started this no contact.

I think she thinks I'm full of $hit that I would actually do it and I have to say that I think it was more emotionally driven. I was pissed and I lashed out with telling her I was gonna file ( which is a terrible thing to do ) 

I am so fricken confused. The kids have had two weeks of visitation... she was supposed to give me money on Thursday for the kids but I never saw any although the kids came home with new shoes ( which doesn't help to pay the mortgage). She might be holding the money to see if she can get me to contact her about it. 

I have done well without her help so I can still make it work if she wants to play that game. I will NOT beg for money from her. She should be willing or feel obligated to pay for the children.

I went NC because he texts were getting heated and I thought she needed to cool down and I if I kept talking to her it was only gonna get worse.

I have a feeling that she is holding on to that money waiting for me to ask cause I told her I was broke and barely had enough to pay the mortgage and that is when she said she was gonna give me money.

I looked at the account and she didn't transfer any money into our joint account.

I'm lost.

I will say my anxiety meds are working awesome and I haven't had an anxiety about this all week. I just found projects to keep me busy. I actually picked up my guitar and started playing again to keep my mind off it all.


----------



## Wazza

Here is my suggestion.

Decide on your strategy. Write it down. Read it every day for a week and make sure you are committed to it. Then implement it and stick with it.

One of two things is going to happen. She will come back to you or you can move forward with divorce.

Of course the plan should include an allowance for counselling time. It should be generous but not open ended.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Good idea. 

I think I already started it by telling her not to come back to the house to stay until she wants to be my wife.

Second .. starting no contact after she called me manipulative and that I attack her in texts.

The next would be for me to go to my own counseling and work on myself. 

... as hard as it is.. I need to stay on the path I'm going on now. 

Racing starts in a few weeks so that will keep me busy, I picked up my guitar again which is relaxing, my daughter and I are building things with some electronic parts I bought.. 

The key is to keep busy.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Good idea.
> 
> I think I already started it by telling her not to come back to the house to stay until she wants to be my wife.
> 
> Second .. starting no contact after she called me manipulative and that I attack her in texts.
> 
> The next would be for me to go to my own counseling and work on myself.
> 
> ... as hard as it is.. I need to stay on the path I'm going on now.
> 
> Racing starts in a few weeks so that will keep me busy, I picked up my guitar again which is relaxing, my daughter and I are building things with some electronic parts I bought..
> 
> The key is to keep busy.


Agree with keeping busy.

Just not sure that your path is consistent. The reason for writing it down is to give you something to measure your actions against.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. 

I'm feeling a little sad tonight.. not seeing a light at the end of this tunnel.

I keep thinking that if she really wanted to work on this then she would have let thing be quiet all week..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was watching the Jeff Dunham show.. and wouldn't you know it but this joke..
---------------------------------------------------

“Oh, so how did the marriage counselling go?

Well let's just say after it was over there where two people who thought I was an ass. And I was paying both of 'um.” 
― Jeff Dunham


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I was watching the Jeff Dunham show.. and wouldn't you know it but this joke..
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> “Oh, so how did the marriage counselling go?
> 
> Well let's just say after it was over there where two people who thought I was an ass. And I was paying both of 'um.”
> ― Jeff Dunham


Read Jeff Dunham's story Sad. His wife was cheating on him.

I hope you see some light at the end of the tunnel my friend.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OMG.. I didn't know his wife did that too him 

I picked up my oldest from a friends tonight. She went to a concert with her friends and talked about the cute boys she saw.

She will be 13 in a month. I wish the family could be back together with her being at a stage that I know nothing about.

The other day she was upset because a boy broke up with her. I told her to text her mom if she needs too for advice also. I gave her a big hug and said " boys suck" and she giggled.

Later I thought... maybe Lisa isn't the best to ask about being dumped since she is the one that did the dumping when it came to me.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Or, you can do research into how to deal and approach your kids on such topics. Rather then send them off to your wife.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Did you not read that I said "ALSO"? I did deal with it. I gave her the option to "ALSO" talk to her mother.

I am perfectly capable with handling anything to do with the girls. I have been the one that did everything for them since they were in diapers. 

I'm not the stereotypical male that knows nothing about raising his kids. 

I take great offense to anyone that doubts my parenting skills.


----------



## 06Daddio08

"A stage that I know nothing about". Is what you said. I also did not say you know nothing about parenting, so cool you're jets.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Of course it is nothing I know about... I'm a male.. I don't have those parts.

Cool your jets? You attacked my parenting skills.. You assumed that I was going to send her to my wife for advice. I am perfectly capable to deal with that part of her life. Of course i'm going to get upset at that.


----------



## 06Daddio08

I didn't attack you, and if this is a sign of how you react to your wife during conversations that you don't agree with, then it's a good place to start with counselling.

Regardless, good luck with everything.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Most people's default response to a dad raising girls is to assume he knows nothing about the process.

Lisa even told people that she figured I would be calling her within a month of her leaving asking her to take the girls cause she felt that I couldn't do it.

To those same people she also said that she wouldn't be surprised if I didn't commit suicide. She told them she hope I don't ..but it wouldn't surprise her.

On both cases she was wrong.

I have done EVERYTHING for these girls while their mother either stayed in bed while I took them to skating lessons or I played with them outside while their mother said it was too hot to go out with them.

BTW... if you felt attacked.. would you not get upset? 

I took offence because your response was normally followed by " I don't think he is capable of doing it." I have it said to me the same way in the last 8 months. 

The general public seems to think that a man can not raise a girl unless he is gay like the Two dads on Glee.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Of course it is nothing I know about... I'm a male.. I don't have those parts.
> 
> Cool your jets? You attacked my parenting skills.. You assumed that I was going to send her to my wife for advice. I am perfectly capable to deal with that part of her life. Of course i'm going to get upset at that.


Sad

You have been doing a better job of raising your daughters than your wife has all these months.

Do not sell yourself or your advice short to your daughters. You are a great Dad.

Take that from a guy with 3 daughters Sad!

HM64


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you... consider that part closed. I'm trying to say my peace then not saying anything about it again. 

I was terrible for not knowing how to shut my mouth and I ended up digging a hole so big that it would just make her madder and madder.

Now I saw. " I'm done" then shut up about it even if I really have more to say.. A REALLY HARD THING FOR ME TO DO


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Most people's default response to a dad raising girls is to assume he knows nothing about the process.
> 
> Lisa even told people that she figured I would be calling her within a month of her leaving asking her to take the girls cause she felt that I couldn't do it.
> 
> To those same people she also said that she wouldn't be surprised if I didn't commit suicide. She told them she hope I don't ..but it wouldn't surprise her.
> 
> On both cases she was wrong.
> 
> I have done EVERYTHING for these girls while their mother either stayed in bed while I took them to skating lessons or I played with them outside while their mother said it was too hot to go out with them.
> 
> BTW... if you felt attacked.. would you not get upset?
> 
> I took offence because your response was *normally followed by* " I don't think he is capable of doing it." I have it said to me the same way in the last 8 months.
> 
> The general public seems to think that a man can not raise a girl unless he is gay like the Two dads on Glee.


I have a good indication as to why you took offense and felt attacked, you've felt on edge and been like it for months. Hence the reason why you wrote a short story of an email to your wife and demanded a response from her.

Good for Lisa, she skips around town pumping herself up by telling everyone that you 'just won't make it without her' and yet, you allow yourself to get sucked into it by validating yourself against the bullsh!t words she spreads around.

If *you* know you're a good father, then it doesn't matter what she says and you shouldn't feel the need to judge yourself according to what she says to others.

What you're doing is projecting your own insecurities and issues onto others (in this case, myself) and no, I won't allow myself to get offended or upset over it. A clear indication of your projection of insecurity is how you admitted to taking offense because the 'normal' response 'would be followed by' "I don't think he is capable of doing it.".

I never said such a thing, I suggested looking up information about father / daughter relationships for your daughters age. Don't think I haven't done the same? One of the first things I read when I got separated was a 25 page booklet full of information, provided by the government about "separated fathers and children".

Never took 'offense' to the fact that they had such information out, I was grateful for the fact that it was out there.

As for the 'general public' thinking this or that, I really suggest you drop the labels society places on things because it serves no purpose to base emotions and reactions on that garbage.


----------



## 06Daddio08

I also think you've done a great job with the parenting and I've never seen anything to say otherwise.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you.

Also.. I seem to think that this is another form of codependency... kinda seems like I look for praise from things that I shouldn't need praise from.

Make sense?


----------



## K.C.

It's a lack of self worth and or confidence.

How can I possibly know I'm getting it right if they don't tell me so. You know you do great, but don't believe it till some one else confirms it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

True.. maybe that is why I'm drawn to racing. I get to take the trophy home as a reminder of how well I did.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OMG.. I didn't know his wife did that too him
> 
> I picked up my oldest from a friends tonight. She went to a concert with her friends and talked about the cute boys she saw.
> 
> She will be 13 in a month. I wish the family could be back together with her being at a stage that I know nothing about.
> 
> The other day she was upset because a boy broke up with her. I told her to text her mom if she needs too for advice also. I gave her a big hug and said " boys suck" and she giggled.
> 
> Later I thought... maybe Lisa isn't the best to ask about being dumped since she is the one that did the dumping when it came to me.


When I read this, I thought, "No--don't send her to her mom for advice!" ~she came to you--she trusts you. You are her stability right now, and she wanted to confide in her stable parent. No matter what Lisa is saying to people around town (which shows such a lack of empathy or respect!), your girls know you as their stable, strong father. Let this knowledge boost your confidence!


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Lisa even told people that she figured I would be calling her within a month of her leaving asking her to take the girls cause she felt that I couldn't do it.
> 
> To those same people she also said that she wouldn't be surprised if I didn't commit suicide. She told them she hope I don't ..but it wouldn't surprise her.


And the people listening to her are wondering what kind of mother would leave her children with someone like that! She ends up looking like a liar, and also a neglectful mother. What she said reflected badly on her, not you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you. 

when I spent yesterday outside in the nice day work with her on her school project all I could think was... how would any parent want to miss this.. in 5 years she will be gone to university. she has already missed almost a year with both of her girls that she will not get back.

Since she is not fixed and I am.. there is always the chance of her starting a new family if we divorce..

I don't have that option so I'm absorbing everything I can from my time with my girls.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thank you.
> 
> when I spent yesterday outside in the nice day work with her on her school project all I could think was... how would any parent want to miss this.. in 5 years she will be gone to university. she has already missed almost a year with both of her girls that she will not get back.
> *
> Since she is not fixed and I am.. there is always the chance of her starting a new family if we divorce..*
> 
> I don't have that option so I'm absorbing everything I can from my time with my girls.


I got a vasectomy 3 months before my ex left me, around the same time it was 'good to go', we had false R. Admittedly, it was something that really hurt at the beginning and felt heartless as she clearly had been detaching months beforehand.

I've had the same thoughts, "She could start another family, get pregnant, she screwed me over" yadda yadda, but in the end, at the age of 28, I think I'm content with having my 2 children. Plus there is always the option of having it reversed if I really want another child with someone else, which I'm not opposed to.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

True.. 

I'm 40 so I can't see me wanting more. She is 35.. and although she says she is happy with two she has said in the past that she wished that I would have waited to get it done. That was a few months before she left.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Does it matter anyways? What good does continuing down a thought path such of this do you?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

it doesn't....

I love children.. but one more would have been one more heartbroken child because this path was made years ago.


----------



## Conrad

06Daddio08 said:


> I got a vasectomy 3 months before my ex left me, around the same time it was 'good to go', we had false R. Admittedly, it was something that really hurt at the beginning and felt heartless as she clearly had been detaching months beforehand.
> 
> I've had the same thoughts, "She could start another family, get pregnant, she screwed me over" yadda yadda, but in the end, at the age of 28, I think I'm content with having my 2 children. Plus there is always the option of having it reversed if I really want another child with someone else, which I'm not opposed to.


Out of your entire story, that level of selfishness (from her) convinced me what she was.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Conrad said:


> Out of your entire story, that level of selfishness (from her) convinced me what she was.


It was quite the plot twist, that's for sure.


----------



## Wazza

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> When I read this, I thought, "No--don't send her to her mom for advice!" ~she came to you--she trusts you. You are her stability right now, and she wanted to confide in her stable parent. No matter what Lisa is saying to people around town (which shows such a lack of empathy or respect!), your girls know you as their stable, strong father. Let this knowledge boost your confidence!





Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> And the people listening to her are wondering what kind of mother would leave her children with someone like that! She ends up looking like a liar, and also a neglectful mother. What she said reflected badly on her, not you.


What kind of mother is she? The only one they will have.

Whatever happens between Sad and Lisa, he is doing the right thing to build what ever bridges he can between mother and daughters. For the daughters' sakes.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

ok... this was her exact quote to me when we talked in December after we left court.

I asked her why she left the girls.

She said it was so i would have a reason to go on.


----------



## 06Daddio08

And mine told me in August, "One of my biggest hopes when I left, was that you would start living your life again." Just another way to validate garbage.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

For sure. For her to walk out and leave a note I thought was cowardly. 

I don't know if that is something I should bring up in Marriage Counseling... but she says she know I wouldn't leave so she left. I will say that is true. But..... her leaving a note and running while I was at work and the kids were at camp was the most cowardly thing she could ever do.

Then the next week she couldn't believe that i drove to camp on visitation and told them and took them home.

I might have been unfair but I have always been honest with my kids and I told them when I saw them. I also didn't allow her to pick the children up because I was afraid she would talk them and that WASN'T gonna happen.

If it unfair to say that I thought she was a coward in Marriage Counseling? She always acts tough but in the end is a scared little girl that doesn't want to face her issues head on. She can rant in texts but in person her default answer was that she doesn't want to talk about it right now.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> For sure. For her to walk out and leave a note I thought was cowardly.
> 
> I don't know if that is something I should bring up in Marriage Counseling... but she says she know I wouldn't leave so she left. I will say that is true. But..... her leaving a note and running while I was at work and the kids were at camp was the most cowardly thing she could ever do.
> 
> Then the next week she couldn't believe that i drove to camp on visitation and told them and took them home.
> 
> I might have been unfair but I have always been honest with my kids and I told them when I saw them. I also didn't allow her to pick the children up because I was afraid she would talk them and that WASN'T gonna happen.
> 
> If it unfair to say that I thought she was a coward in Marriage Counseling? She always acts tough but in the end is a scared little girl that doesn't want to face her issues head on. She can rant in texts but in person her default answer was that she doesn't want to talk about it right now.


You base far too much on what you assume she is thinking or feeling by what she says, or lacks in her words. Wanna talk about 'words'? Let me try and dig back into the vault to show you what words are worth, compared to the actions being taken.

Back when this all started for me, my ex was getting the entire amount for the Child Tax Benefit. In Canada, each child you have yields a certain amount of money (starts to decrease after the age of 6) and it was all going into her bank account. At the time, even with this money, she told me she couldn't afford to pay daycare or help out with anything.

After much struggle, I filed for half of the benefit as legally, I was entitled to it. She no longer had the children 100% of the time, it was 50/50. This money is given to help with food, shelter and clothing, I too could have use for it for the children's benefit. Especially seeing how she was practically refusing to help with the daycare costs coming up, saying "I will see what I can do".

About 5-6 months into separation, I cut my ex from my insurance plan through work. Now, I called my insurance company months prior and they said as soon as a spouses (or soon to be ex) changed there living address, they are no longer be covered.

During this entire time, she refused to do mediation as she repeatedly said "we will never agree on anything". Wouldn't even try.

I also heard such lines as;

- I wish you would just man up
- I shouldn't have to pay our loan, it was based off of your income and I don't even agree with what the loan was for (rewriting history)
- You can't get blood from a stone (after I told her the $100 she gave me out of $600 owed for daycare in 1 month, wasn't enough and I would be retaining an attorney)
- I wish you would just do what you're suppose to do (as in, pay for EVERYTHING in regards to our marriage)
- I hoped when I left you that you would start living your life

And so forth, so many more lines and words used in complete objection for the ACTIONS that were required to get divorced. All actions she never wanted any part of and continued to use petty words to try and justify her every move or lack of.

You know, when I filed for the Child Tax Benefit (I wrote a 1 page hand written letter to the government, detailing everything in dates, times and child rotation) she called me, screaming that I was attempting to "financially strangle her" so she would come crawling back to me. She then threatened to enroll the children into school and daycare where she lived (20 minutes out of the city). What did I do? I took action, I called the school in her town and the school my daughter would be attending and informed them that any accepted transfers without my consent would result in a lawsuit.

All her words were bullsh!t, I had manned up, tremendously. She even tried to take credit in her own way for (at the time) the 30 lbs I had lost and even how more active I was as a father. Everything she said was in complete protest to me doing what was needed, never once did I do something out of pure spite or to hurt her and I struggled for days, even weeks making such moves. Ask anyone here who has read my stories in my old threads, which are no longer around.

As for all the, "you can't get blood from a stone" and "I shouldn't have to pay our loan", they were quickly dismissed by the judge when he asked her "is your name on the loan?". Another prime example of me "manning up", was when the judge looked over everything we had given as evidence and didn't even question me getting 50% custody of my kids. "I see no reason to disrupt the Status Quo." and he was right on the money.

I am by far, more the man she wishes I would have been years ago than I have ever been, but at the same time, I am no longer the doormat she requires in her life and that's too bad for her. She's missing out on a man who has learned (and learning) from his mistakes, who is compassionate, empathetic, loving and carrying. A man who is a great father and companion through life. I also stand up for what I believe in, am (now) outspoken in a rational sense and pretty proud of myself.

But my back is no longer for rent to wipe ones boots on and it took months to get there, it also took DOING things about it to get there as well. No longer questioning what she would think if I did this or that because that lead me no where. She was never happy, regardless. Even when I was giving her what she 'said' she wanted, the fact was, it wasn't her controlling the strings. So it was no good for her. Too bad.

You are still very attached and far too codependent on her and that's okay, being aware of it is the first step and it can lead to another step moving forward, if you choose so.

The best way to describe my attachment and codependency was said by myself back last summer, "My attachment is an arrow through my chest and the only way I can let go is by pulling the arrow out, without breaking the tip off first". I was crying, at work, when I typed that.

At one time you were in front of a judge, ready to 'bury her' because you found your nuts and started to do what was in your best interest. I highly suggest you find that boat in the harbor and restart it's engine. You are not going to get anywhere in any of this, continuously worrying about her and her 'words'.

If she actually wants this, she will do something about it. Rather then agreeing to what's minimal in effort for her.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> True.. maybe that is why I'm drawn to racing. I get to take the trophy home as a reminder of how well I did.


No. If this is something you actually like to do, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be good at it. I took pictures of my target while doing Archery on Saturday, as I was proud of how well I had done after only 2 days and no 'training classes'.

Doesn't mean I have issues, I'm just proud.


----------



## K.C.

Up, I think I have a little mancrush on you Awesome post.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

WOW... I'm not the only one that got a "you can't get blood from a stone" comment..

I did the same thing for the child tax credit. I filed with an explanation to the government and had no issue. With that money there would be NO way I would be able to pay the bills. The pizzeria is so slow that I'm spending most of the day job hunting.

I think I had every right to stop talking to her when she said I manipulating and harassing her. 

I think her set of "rules" was manipulating enough and asking why she refuses to answer her phone even when it was about the girls is far from harassing.

I did show her what kinda man I could be in court which is why she me crawling back. I think I truly regret it now that I didn't at least get a custody and child support arrangement finished through the court.

I have yet to see a dime except a couple pairs of shoes for the kids and $125 worth of groceries ONCE.. in 8 months.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> WOW... I'm not the only one that got a "you can't get blood from a stone" comment..
> 
> I did the same thing for the child tax credit. I filed with an explanation to the government and had no issue. With that money there would be NO way I would be able to pay the bills. The pizzeria is so slow that I'm spending most of the day job hunting.
> 
> I think I had every right to stop talking to her when she said I manipulating and harassing her.
> 
> I think her set of "rules" was manipulating enough and asking why she refuses to answer her phone even when it was about the girls is far from harassing.
> 
> I did show her what kinda man I could be in court which is why she me crawling back. *I think I truly regret it now that I didn't at least get a custody and child support arrangement finished through the court.
> 
> I have yet to see a dime except a couple pairs of shoes for the kids and $125 worth of groceries ONCE.. in 8 months. *


Time to do something about it. Don't you agree?

I forgot another gem;

- Maybe if you weren't so manipulative, I would think differently of you


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> WOW... I'm not the only one that got a "you can't get blood from a stone" comment..
> 
> I did the same thing for the child tax credit. I filed with an explanation to the government and had no issue. With that money there would be NO way I would be able to pay the bills. The pizzeria is so slow that I'm spending most of the day job hunting.
> 
> I think I had every right to stop talking to her when she said I manipulating and harassing her.
> 
> I think her set of "rules" was manipulating enough and asking why she refuses to answer her phone even when it was about the girls is far from harassing.
> 
> I did show her what kinda man I could be in court which is why she me crawling back. I think I truly regret it now that I didn't at least get a custody and child support arrangement finished through the court.
> 
> I have yet to see a dime except a couple pairs of shoes for the kids and $125 worth of groceries ONCE.. in 8 months.


Have you had enough yet?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm getting pretty close to having enough... BUT part of my written down list ( I finally did it) is to see where MC will lead.

I am disappointed with her right now as she new I was short for the mortgage and she told me she would give me money towards it but never did. I think she is hiding again being a coward because I stopped talking to her.

Also while I'm at work I am planning my activities for at home. This morning before work I started on the CD for announcing at the racetrack for the club. I used to do it and race but it got busy. The lady that did it sounds like she is talking through a hole in her windpipe (she is a chain smoker). That gave me time to do some writing, then learn a new computer program which I love to do.

I'm trying to keep busy.


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm getting pretty close to having enough... BUT part of my written down list ( I finally did it) is to see where MC will lead.
> 
> I am disappointed with her right now as she new I was short for the mortgage and she told me she would give me money towards it but never did. I think she is hiding again being a coward because I stopped talking to her.
> 
> Also while I'm at work I am planning my activities for at home. This morning before work I started on the CD for announcing at the racetrack for the club. I used to do it and race but it got busy. The lady that did it sounds like she is talking through a hole in her windpipe (she is a chain smoker). That gave me time to do some writing, then learn a new computer program which I love to do.
> 
> I'm trying to keep busy.


Jason I wish you the best, I think it's time to refile I'll leave it at that, peace.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know Tom... you have been a great help...I guess I'm just too thick headed.

I am excited about going to therapy even it is ends up doing nothing for my marriage. I have needed help for sometime and finally I'm gonna do something about it.


----------



## K.C.

So long as it helps you, anything else is just a bonus. Good luck with it!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I should have done it years ago. mostly when i first was treated for depression after being injured a second time in the same spot. I was pretty close minded to the thought that talking to someone could actually help me. I was in the mindset that I don't need a shrink .. I can do it on my own. Well you see where it got me.


----------



## Conrad

The idea that she greatly improves her financial status by engaging in false R is disquieting.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> WOW... I'm not the only one that got a "you can't get blood from a stone" comment..


LOL. I am happily married and money still causes fights. She may be totally sincere. Doesn't matter. You have obligations. So does she. In particular she is choosing the job and hours she wants. Wouldn't we all love to do that. But we can't.

In my marriage we keep our finances separate for that very reason. 



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I think I truly regret it now that I didn't at least get a custody and child support arrangement finished through the court.


I don't think you should regret it. You were faced with a hard choice. No certainty. What you really want is Lisa back and you took a risk to maximise your chance of that. It didn't work out how you want, but you won't wonder whether it would have if you had only backed off on the court.

All of us have our perspectives. None of us have 100% success in picking outcomes. Be at peace with what you have done, and do not ponder it save to learn for the future.

You have to reach your walk away point, no be bound by someone else's.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you... and I really mean it.

You response is one that gave me peace. Not.. jumping to... I would do this.. I would do that. 

I appreciate that and now know that a guy here feels a little better about himself tonight because of it.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



K.C. said:


> Up, I think I have a little mancrush on you Awesome post.


Lol.. careful dude. It's been a while.


----------



## Wazza

06Daddio08 said:


> Lol.. careful dude. It's been a while.


Eeewwwwwwww!


----------



## K.C.

Lmao. I am in the longest dry season of my life, tell me about it!

Sad, no regrets for trying. You put yourself out there, you were strong enough to try. That she isn't strong enough to really try in return is her failing not yours.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So... it's been over a week and nothing from her. I start my first IC session tomorrow.

I still can't figure how the two of us not at least communicating is supposed to help things. My daughter is upset because Lisa NEVER call and I would like to tell her that but that would break the silence.

I am so confused...


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> So... it's been over a week and nothing from her. I start my first IC session tomorrow.
> 
> I still can't figure how the two of us not at least communicating is supposed to help things. My *daughter is upset because Lisa NEVER call* and *I would like to tell her *that but that would break the silence.
> 
> I am so confused...


No, it has nothing to do with 'breaking the silence' and everything to do with trying to fix. She's not calling, that's HER choice and so be it. Unfortunate for your daughter that her mother cannot separate children and adult issues.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So.. basically I just wait until she contacts me... and if she doesn't so be it?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> So.. basically I just *wait* until *she* contacts me... and if *she* doesn't so be it?


So much waiting.

So much wondering what she's doing.

So much guessing what she's thinking.

So much focus on her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes.. I just don't know where we go from here...? I would like to know if MC is still gonna happen..

What do i do if the silence continues?


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Yes.. I just don't know where we go from here...? I would like to know if MC is still gonna happen..
> 
> What do i do if the silence continues?


Is there an appointment scheduled?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She went to her first IC two weeks ago and I think she went again this week as they called her to book her second appointment Last Friday and I gave them her cell number and said she doesn`t live here . She wanted to go through the 5 page letter I wrote with her counselor.

I start my first IC tomorrow.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She went to her first IC two weeks ago and I think she went again this week as they called her to book her second appointment Last Friday and I gave them her cell number and said she doesn`t live here . She wanted to go through the 5 page letter I wrote with her counselor.
> 
> I start my first IC tomorrow.


This doesn't answer the question, do you have a MC appointment previously booked and coming up soon?


----------



## Wazza

Sad, lots of people throw the 180 around and it is hard tone what it means. I think it means two things.

First, you focus on you and forget about her. Build your strength. Second, maybe the stronger you will attract her to come back. Maybe.

But at this stage, I think you are getting to the realisation that she may not come back. How long do you wait?

In your case, you need to get your feet on the ground and you haven't . You need to get to a place where you can say "This is where I am headed. Come if you want, but I am going with or without you." The she makes her choice, and you accept it and respond accordingly.

So here are some things to consider. 

1. What access should she have to the children. How can you make that happen. This is important so that the kids get time with their Mom and you get you time.

2. How should the cost of the kids be shared. Based on what you have posted it seems she is freeloading. Not fair.

3. At what point do you end your marriage legally so you can both get on with your lives? The answer could be "right now" or it could be "never". If it were me I would say after a period if counselling. Maybe six months or so?

I would do the same as you did for court. Plan, rehearse, and be clear and consistent, then talk to her. And if you cannot reach agreement with her, your next recourse is probably legal.

Remember also, nothing is final. As in, you could divorce her then date and remarry if it worked out. But at this stage I see no sign that she is willing.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

There is no MC booked. She insisted that we get through IC first. I figured on at least 1 month of that.

What is sad Wazza was on was on that path until she decided to say she wanted to "work" it out which obviously isn't happening right now.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> There is no MC booked. She insisted that we get through IC first. I figured on at least 1 month of that.
> 
> What is sad Wazza was on was on that path until she decided to say she wanted to "work" it out which obviously isn't happening right now.


Look, it is incredibly sad. It sucks.

But ultimately you can either wait for her or stop waiting, and meantime your girls are impacted too.

If you assume she doesn't want to be with you, but doesn't want the cost of being divorced either, then of course she is happy with current arrangements. But that is not fair to your girls.

Her IC is one possible circuit breaker. I would give it some time, but prepare for nothing to change. But I think at the same time I would force the financial and custody issues. Maybe a mediator of some sort before the full legal route? 

It sucks.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not figuring it will change. But she cannot stay at the house if she continues with her "rules". She either wants to be my wife or stay in her little room she rents from a co-worker.

I'm not backing down on that. 

The visitation arrangement went back to the court order style because of HER behaviour.. She wanted to act like we were in court so I will treat her like it was when we were in court.

I'm proud of myself for one giving one word answers back to her last weekend. That was tough to do but was the only way she could possible know that I do agree with how she has treated me.

I am strong and weak all at the same time.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I am strong and weak all at the same time.


You are human.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The nice thing is I look across the room and both of my girls are here with me  

She has a TV and one room.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The nice thing is I look across the room and both of my girls are here with me
> 
> She has a TV and one room.


Good job Jason


----------



## happyman64

Jason

Know this.

While your wife may be incapable of being a wife there is no excuse in the world why she cannot be a good, active mother.

So one week of no contact with the girls.

Watch how long that goes on for.

That would trouble me more than any marriage issues tbh.


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> Jason
> 
> Know this.
> 
> While your wife may be incapable of being a wife there is no excuse in the world why she cannot be a good, active mother.
> 
> So one week of o contact with the girls.
> 
> Watch how long that goes on for.
> 
> That would trouble me more than any marriage issues tbh.


I suspect she loves money more than her kids.


----------



## happyman64

Conrad said:


> I suspect she loves money more than her kids.


I suspect she loves herself and uses her poor past decisions as her excuse not to work on herself to be a better person let alone a better parent.

She is a one woman pity party!

And she could easily stay this way forever or just until she ditches the husband and family.

Something to think about Jason.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have asked her over and over again why she doesn't call the children. 

Her answer is always " the kids don't seem interested in talking to me when i call" 

I tell her to call anyways.

I talked to my oldest about it and she says she is upset that her mother doesn't call. I told her to tell her that this weekend. Just say " Mommy I would like you to call me during the week"

I don't feel that a kid should have to reach out to a parent to talk to them... but didn't know what other advice to give her.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Your ex is throwing a pity party and trying to get the kids (and you) to feel bad for her.

Fvck that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She has consistently said that ... I just think she is too busy with her "new" life or just lazy.

I have someone covering for me so i can go to the counselor for one. Nervous yet excited to start on a new path with someone guidance rather than winging it like i have for years


----------



## GutPunch

Your wife being a good parent is totally out of your control.

Worrying about will only cause you anxiety.

Focus on you and your parenting. 

One day at a time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just had a friend of mine give me a little warning about MC.

She said to tread lightly on anything that might make the counselor think that the children are in danger as he HAS to call Child services if he see a danger.

I started thinking of my issues..

I have been sad.. but never suicidal....
I on depression medication in the beginning as I got hurt on job and was really sad about my future... but it also seemed to help my OCD and Anxiety so he left me on it. My dosage was up as far as it would go only to help with the anxiety of the break up.

I am ADHD and my meds helped with that too.

The meds I'm on now deal with my anxiety but are labelled as a Bi-polar med so I'm hoping he doesn't look at that as an issue.

I'm a great dad that needs medication... that better not be an issue or this system is BROKEN..

Hell my wife makes most of her decision based on tarot cards and "feeling energy". If anyone wants to think someone has an issue it should be her.


----------



## 06Daddio08

I'm not the religious type, but I'm praying to Baby Jesus that your focus eventually lands on yourself.

Do not let Baby Jesus down.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know I shouldn't chuckle but when you said Baby Jesus.. I keep thinking about Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights praying before the families meal..

Sorry if you take offense to it.. but I have a big smile on my face right now and I needed it..

Baby Jesus Prayer - Ricky Bobby [Clean Edited] Talladega Nights [Good Quality] - YouTube


----------



## 06Daddio08

Where you think I got it from


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Shake and Bake 06Daddio08


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... back from my first session. Surprising how much I got out in 50 minutes.

Does anyone wanna make a guess what he said after I explained the entire situation to him?


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... back from my first session. Surprising how much I got out in 50 minutes.
> 
> Does anyone wanna make a guess what he said after I explained the entire situation to him?


"Use the Force"?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Force is one way to put it.

He said to refile.

I went to the courthouse and asked what to do. They said since I dismissed the case I have to start all over again. My visitation court order from October is Void as well as my chance of getting any back child support.

He is going work with me for a while working on my self esteem so the Happy pile is bigger than my SAD pile.

This guy is awesome and helped me a ton even in 50 minutes. My homework is to find 5 different things each day that made me happy.

The big issue is the kids. He guarantees that she will come and scoop the children from school while I'm at work. He said that would be the advice he would have given her ( She has a different counselor). I said what do I do then. He said you go and scoop then back from school. 

Right now I don't have two pennies to rub together and this time I will CERTAINLY need a lawyer.

My plan is to hopefully get this full time job this Friday and start getting some money together for a lawyer.

Now I have to pay someone again to serve her ( which I don't have money for) as well as a retainer fee ( which I don't have money for) so I have no choice but to stick this out a bit more under I have some $$$$$$$.

My counselor is not gonna like it but I really have no choice.

He said to say NOTHING to her unless it has to do with the kids ( just like what all of you have said).

He can't believe I stuck this out as long as I have..


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Force is one way to put it.
> 
> He said to refile.
> 
> I went to the courthouse and asked what to do. They said since I dismissed the case I have to start all over again. My visitation court order from October is Void as well as my chance of getting any back child support.
> 
> He is going work with me for a while working on my self esteem so the Happy pile is bigger than my SAD pile.
> 
> This guy is awesome and helped me a ton even in 50 minutes. My homework is to find 5 different things each day that made me happy.
> 
> The big issue is the kids. He guarantees that she will come and scoop the children from school while I'm at work. He said that would be the advice he would have given her ( She has a different counselor). I said what do I do then. He said you go and scoop then back from school.
> 
> Right now I don't have two pennies to rub together and this time I will CERTAINLY need a lawyer.
> 
> My plan is to hopefully get this full time job this Friday and start getting some money together for a lawyer.
> 
> Now I have to pay someone again to serve her ( which I don't have money for) as well as a retainer fee ( which I don't have money for) so I have no choice but to stick this out a bit more under I have some $$$$$$$.
> 
> My counselor is not gonna like it but I really have no choice.
> 
> He said to say NOTHING to her unless it has to do with the kids ( just like what all of you have said).
> 
> He can't believe I stuck this out as long as I have..


I was going to answer your question but I saw you responded. Were his words like this?

"Why the hell are you still married to her?"

Sad, I honestly think your wife wants a divorce. I also think she wants you to have the girls full time.

Now go get that job so you have some $$$.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I was going to answer your question but I saw you responded. Were his words like this?
> 
> "Why the hell are you still married to her?"
> 
> Sad, I honestly think your wife wants a divorce. I also think she wants you to have the girls full time.
> 
> Now go get that job so you have some $$$.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Actually he said... does that sound like a woman that WANTS to be married to you?

He said "All of this has to do with money.. plain and simple. She know that if she takes the kids then it's money in her pocket."

He asked me what I would like in a wife. Nothing in my list other than intelligent and pretty fit Lisa.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

His other statement was..

No amount of marriage counseling will fix this...she checked out a long time ago.


----------



## Wazza

Rally sorry Jason, but I agree with your counsellor.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

He shook his head when I told her about " when I think I having sex with you it makes me sick to my stomach" and some of the other mean things.

He said I wasn't being a manipulator.. just a guy holding on to what little he had.

I told him that I was scared to grow old along just like my dad. He said you won't. He said he will help me get my self esteem up to where I will be ready to start my new life.


----------



## Wazza

Jason, don't beat yourself up.

It seems very clear to me now that your wife wants divorce, but would not have been clear when she proposed reconciliation. 

Agreeing with the counsellor now does not alter the respect I have for you that you tried. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that is on her, not you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep.... now it's time to get money in the bank for the retainer. Now that she will be working fulltime she will certainly lawyer up this time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OMG... 

I have chatting with an old girlfriend from when I was a kid... nice girl.. not my type..

Ever since Lisa and I split she is keeps wanting to hook up... 

It has been nice conversation.. she just got dumped from her boyfriend... 

Now she is telling me that we should hook up.. she makes lots of money will take care of me.. etc etc take care of my kids..

She is relentless... she has been doing this on and off since Lisa left. I try to limit my conversations with her cause she is like this sometimes.

"Hey maybe we should hook-up.. I'll take care of that sex problem your having with your wife" grrrrrr

Any suggestions on how to try and get her to stop. Sometimes we have great talks about nothing..weather...etc.. and she always moves it to this.

HELP HELP.... I have enough issues....


----------



## 06Daddio08

Set boundaries.


----------



## happyman64

Or just go meet her for a bite and a drink.

Let her pay!

Then I think your problem with her will be over.

Oh yeah, talk about Lisa the whole time.

Who knows, you might enjoy yourself....


----------



## GutPunch

What would the Alpha male do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OMG...
> 
> I have chatting with an old girlfriend from when I was a kid... nice girl.. not my type..
> 
> Ever since Lisa and I split she is keeps wanting to hook up...
> 
> It has been nice conversation.. she just got dumped from her boyfriend...
> 
> Now she is telling me that we should hook up.. she makes lots of money will take care of me.. etc etc take care of my kids..
> 
> She is relentless... she has been doing this on and off since Lisa left. I try to limit my conversations with her cause she is like this sometimes.
> 
> "Hey maybe we should hook-up.. I'll take care of that sex problem your having with your wife" grrrrrr
> 
> Any suggestions on how to try and get her to stop. Sometimes we have great talks about nothing..weather...etc.. and she always moves it to this.
> 
> HELP HELP.... I have enough issues....


Come on, that is funny!! Relax and enjoy the chick magnet status. Taste of things to come?

Tells you you won't be alone!


----------



## tom67

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OMG...
> 
> I have chatting with an old girlfriend from when I was a kid... nice girl.. not my type..
> 
> Ever since Lisa and I split she is keeps wanting to hook up...
> 
> It has been nice conversation.. she just got dumped from her boyfriend...
> 
> Now she is telling me that we should hook up.. she makes lots of money will take care of me.. etc etc take care of my kids..
> 
> She is relentless... she has been doing this on and off since Lisa left. I try to limit my conversations with her cause she is like this sometimes.
> 
> "Hey maybe we should hook-up.. I'll take care of that sex problem your having with your wife" grrrrrr
> 
> Any suggestions on how to try and get her to stop. Sometimes we have great talks about nothing..weather...etc.. and she always moves it to this.
> 
> HELP HELP.... I have enough issues....


Ah what are you complaining about?


----------



## happyman64

The alpha male would probably go out for drinks, let her pay, bang her brains out then tell her it was great seeing her but I need to work on my marriage....

:lol:


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> The alpha male would probably go out for drinks, let her pay, bang her brains out then tell her it was great seeing her but I need to work on my marriage....
> 
> :lol:


One phrase Jason sticks out with me and no disrespect but "Hello McFly!" Like HM said free dinner and nookie to boot?:scratchhead:


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Why not give her a chance? Sometimes not-my-types end up being interesting and challenging contrasts in personality.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

... she has worse co-dependency issues then me.

She told me about how she would text her ex-boyfriend and call and text and call.... then ***** him out when he responds.

I told her she could call me this morning at work so we can talk about her breakup. I talked to her a bit then she had to go ( she was at work)

I went over to the hardware store for ten minutes.

She called back 3 times.. hit the answering machine twice, texted me and messaged me on FB in 10 minutes!!!!!!

When I did get back I sent her a message that said... " Your are very persistent when you can't get a hold of someone"

No thanks...

Btw.. I am 5'6" and 180lbs... she is 6' 250 lbs...


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> ... she has worse co-dependency issues then me.
> 
> She told me about how she would text her ex-boyfriend and call and text and call.... then ***** him out when he responds.
> 
> I told her she could call me this morning at work so we can talk about her breakup. I talked to her a bit then she had to go ( she was at work)
> 
> I went over to the hardware store for ten minutes.
> 
> She called back 3 times.. hit the answering machine twice, texted me and messaged me on FB in 10 minutes!!!!!!
> 
> When I did get back I sent her a message that said... " Your are very persistent when you can't get a hold of someone"
> 
> No thanks...
> 
> Btw.. I am 5'6" and 180lbs... she is 6' 250 lbs...



You could make some football players with that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Both of us are fixed.

She tried to tell me that I could move my kids in with her and it started out at 700 a month and a half hour later she said 400 a month.

I am NOT interested...


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> she is 6' 250 lbs...


I had a feeling.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



06Daddio08 said:


> Set boundaries.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. a couple texts back and forth about bills etc.

Today I sent her a detailed message about how much work our daughter needs on her teeth before they put on braces... of course .. no response.

I called her on the phone cause we really need to discuss this... doesn't answer..

I'm feeling pretty low tonight.

I got invited to go out tomorrow to a friends house.. so i'm gonna get out for a bit.. but I have been feeling pretty lonely and sad the last three days and i just can't shake it.

Instead of letting Lisa have the kids one more day.. I'm gonna let them spend the evening at their grandmothers house.

I feel like i should confront her Saturday morning at kid swap and ask WTF is going on with her that she can't reply about her girls health.


----------



## Wazza

Discussion of dentist = request for money?

Glad you are getting out at least. You need to do more of it. Look after yourself.

Maybe more lawnmower racing? My grass needs cutting if you want practice!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My mother is paying for the braces since neither of use have benefits.

I was just being nice in letting her know how Sarah's teeth are.

Since we don't have any custody or visitation arrangement... I'm tempted not to show up on Saturday for the kid swap.

If i do show up she is GOING to answer some questions ..


----------



## jpr

Can you just email her the information about the teeth?


It sort of sounds like you are lonely and down and using the teeth thing as an excuse to contact her and 'talk'.

....Personally, I am guilty of doing this.  I have done the exact same thing with my ex while we were separated. ...it never ended well. Either we got off topic, or he was short with me and left me in tears afterward.

My advice to you would be to try to communicate as much as possible in writing. If you just have information to share, then just email it to her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What about Saturday when i see her for the swap?

We are in IC supposedly working towards MC... 

I wanna know why she doesn't communicate with me. I'm sad but pissed too.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Did you guys reconcile jpr?


----------



## jpr

Why do you want to know why she doesn't communicate with you?

What good would it do? What if she said that she just didn't feel like talking to you? ...Or that she can't stand your voice?...or that she was busy with more important things?

What does it matter? You can't force her to care, and you can't force her to talk to you. 

You have been dealt a poopy hand. ...and you must deal with it. 

I wouldn't mention anything to her on Saturday. Just email the info to her. That is all that is needed.

...no good will come from anything else.


----------



## jpr

No. No reconciliation. ...I am divorced.

...I learned a long time ago that you can't force someone to love you. ...especially when they love someone else.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm tempted to not even show up. If she doesn't care to respond about her daughters teeth then she doesn't care enough to even see her.. I'm really pissed.

All I want to know if we are headed to something.. if not I wanna file and get headed in one direction. Right now I'm in purgatory with her.


----------



## jpr

Yes, you are in purgatory. ...but you do have a choice. You can file.

If you choose not to file, then you are choosing to live in purgatory. That is a fine enough choice, if that is what you want to do. But, by choosing not to file, you are putting her in the driver's seat--and you will never get real answers from her by demanding them.

If you are choosing to live in this purgatory, then you are going to have to wait...and wait...and wait. One day, maybe she will decide to give you the answers you seek....or maybe she won't. She is in the driver's seat, and that is her choice.


----------



## jpr

No offense...but it sort of sounds that you are wanting to throw a temper tantrum with her because things are not going the way you want them to go.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My therapist says re-file, everyone on TAM said re-file...

I can't understand why i can't. I know this is not healthy.. but it is the final "what if"... "what if" we go to MC and it all works out.

If I don't get to that point I will never know.

I wanna know if there is another man.. I wanna know if we are going to marriage counseling... I wanna know WTF IS GOING ON.

Thank goodness for my anti-anxiety meds that allow me to sleep through the night.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes JPR..I do.. but it is not healthy.. and would not help the situation.


----------



## jpr

You are right. It won't help...at all. I have been there, and I did the same thing.

I know it is maddening...and I know you want to know that you tried EVERYTHING you could.

I felt the same way. I left the door open probably for longer than most people on TAM would have recommended....but, I couldn't live with myself any other way.

Finally, I just had enough...and I had to move on. I didn't want to be with someone who didn't love me....I don't want to be with someone who doesn't love me as much as I love them.

No one can tell you when you should reach that point, Sad...you have to reach that point on your own.

But, you need to try to do this in the most healthy way possible. Temper tantrums and demands for answers will not "win" her back. You have to just let it go...You can continue to leave this door open...but, you need to set some boundaries and 'get a life'. Stop obsessing, demanding answers....limit your contact and give her space. Lots and lots and lots of space.

The more space your give her, the clearer 'both' of your heads will become.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

What pisses me off is I did let her go... and then she wanted back... now it seems she wanted to go again.

If she would have just left me alone i would be doing alright. 

Now I'm stuck grieving for the second time and that isn't far to me or the girls.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Pull your head out of your ass and for the sake of Baby Jesus, change your avatar picture.

Do not keep your kids away from her because she won't respond to texts, yes it's ridiculous that she will not reply about the teeth but adult squabbles do not mean crying children because you're bitter and unable to re-file.

Re-file and be done with it, you gave it a shot to try and reconcile, she coasted. I'm sorry you're back in this position, but you got out of it once and took actual care of yourself. You can do it again.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

A little harsh... but I suppose i bring it on myself.

I suppose the thing that sticks in my head is that I'm gonna be like my dad and grow old alone. He has been by himself for 30 years...


----------



## jpr

Be a "professional robot", Sad-man. 

...that is how I tried to be when I had to interact with my ex when I was still emotional about our situation.

I used to envision myself as a robot wearing a suit and tie...you know..."professional looking". ....someone who looked like they had their sh!t together, but was non-emotional. ...someone who silently exuding confidence and demanded respect. (....but not necessarily impolite and discourteous) 

I agree with Daddio. ...you should not deny your ex time with her kids just because she is not responding to you. That is vindictive and immature---not something a professional, suit-wearing robot would do. ....

Stand tall, say little but be courteous.---you'll get more respect that way.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My therapist didn't even take 10 minutes to say "divorce her"...

WTF do i do if we go back to court and she pulls this crap on my again?

I know this time if I file she will show up at school and take the kids... 

It feels like my head is gonna explode. I think.. "how dare this person use my heart like this" the other is " I still love this woman"

This sucks


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> A little harsh... but I suppose i bring it on myself.
> 
> I suppose the thing that sticks in my head is that I'm gonna be like my dad and grow old alone. He has been by himself for 30 years...


Grow old alone? You will always have your little girls and you will also never ATTRACT someone who appreciates you for you .. if you are too scared to be alone and figure out who you actually are.

At one point you were even questioning why you like to race. Really? You enjoy it because you actually enjoy it, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My therapist didn't even take 10 minutes to say "divorce her"...
> 
> WTF do i do if we go back to court and she pulls this crap on my again?
> 
> I know this time if I file she will show up at school and take the kids...
> 
> It feels like my head is gonna explode. I think.. "how dare this person use my heart like this" the other is " I still love this woman"
> 
> This sucks


She isn't doing anything you don't allow and how can she take the kids?


----------



## jpr

All those 'what ifs"....

Wondering about all those 'what ifs' will not help you move you forward.

So what? So what if the worst case scenerio occurs? So what? You deal with it. .....you pick up the poop and move on.

You'll be okay. ....if you choose to be.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do like the racing... she hated it.

When I went drag racing the year before we married I had a 50% win ratio, won the track championship, rookie of the year, went to Indianapolis and won the Race of Champions... then at the end of the racing year with a table full of trophies and money she said " racing or me" I was 26.. was offered to hop into a dragster and compete in a REAL good race car.

I stopped racing after my rookie year.. and I married her.. 

I raced a few times a year, got to do some hired driving.. but it ended up going down to nothing.

Then I found mower racing. Rookie year ended up third in points, doing well.... then the next year i built a great machine.. and she had me sell it all cause I finished college again and didn't have a job.

Took two years off... she said.. no house money in your racing.

I took over the pizzeria and used every tip dollar I got and built another machine. She left just after i was done.. one thing she said was that I got too consumed in racing.

Well a month after she left I dominated a race and got my first heat win. A bunch of seconds.. but due to raising the girls I didn't get to run the full season for points.

Then in January after she said we are gonna work on it I go to Michigan to the indoor race... fastest qualifier, second in the heat and won the feature...

Of course she didn't give a crap when I messaged home.

She hates my racing... I see that now. 

That was always a thorn in my side... I really like building and racing.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My therapist didn't even take 10 minutes to say "divorce her"...
> 
> WTF do i do if we go back to court and she pulls this crap on my again?
> 
> I know this time if I file she will show up at school and take the kids...
> 
> It feels like my head is gonna explode. I think.. "how dare this person use my heart like this" the other is " I still love this woman"
> 
> This sucks


It sucks because you keep focusing on her. Turn the focus on you.

And then detach. Really detach.

Because if I was a man in a marriage with a woman like yours I would be back in court so fast her head would spin around like the exorcist.

I would go for divorce,full custody and child support from her.

Why?

Because your woman will never respect you until you have a good job, be a full time Dad and tell her to get lost for good.

And hopefully by then you will have had enough. 

Because you deserve better. And so do your girls......

HM64


----------



## 06Daddio08

That thorn in your side is called resentment. Without her around, that resentment vanishes and you can reignite your love for racing.

Set up your life for custody of your kids and work your racing in around it. What's so horrid about that?

You get your girls and your racing.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If there is no court custody arrangement she can take the kids anytime she wants.

Since I closed our file in the court even her custody arrangement is gone. I dont have to let her see the kids.. but i do cause it is important to the girls to see her mother.

My oldest is very upset that her mother NEVER calls the house to talk to the kids.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If there is no court custody arrangement she can take the kids anytime she wants.
> 
> Since I closed our file in the court even her custody arrangement is gone. I dont have to let her see the kids.. but i do cause it is important to the girls to see her mother.
> 
> My oldest is very upset that her mother NEVER calls the house to talk to the kids.


Then re-file and go for the custody agreement with it. When I filed, that's what I did. Stated right in there what I was going for.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Aren't you in Canada?

Mine wanted me to be a weekend father when it all started, I wasn't cool with that and took 3 months off to settle the kids into things and begin a rotation.

I set it all up, from the ground up. Based it 50 / 50 around my work rotation, added in what I felt to be appropriate mid week visitations, phone calls, and the sorts.

Was just as sh!t scared as you are, but I knew if I didn't do something I would get blown over and the only one doing it was myself.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When we were in court before I had a visitation agreement but no custody. We were actually in court for that and and the judge asked us to go talk out some of the arrangements and come back the next month. That is when she said she wanted to work it out.


----------



## Wazza

Sad, she can't even be bothered calling the girls. Let alone paying to care for them. Why would she take them? The only reason I see is to get to you. If she pulls that, just be a weekend dad for a short time and when it doesn't have the impact she wants, she will cave.

If you are going to reconcile, you can do so after divorce.

If you are going to try the counselling thing, you need a time limit.


----------



## GutPunch

Please don't punish your kids because 
you are mad at their Mom.

Change your focus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will never be a weekend dad. If she grabs them.. I will be there the first day at their new school and take them back..


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> My oldest is very upset that her mother NEVER calls the house to talk to the kids.


This is something you cannot worry about. You are trying to control what kind of Mother she is or isn't. 

You cannot win this game.

Be a good Dad that's all you can control.


----------



## karole

Have your attorney draw up a custody agreement when he serves the divorce. Serve her with both.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am an awesome dad... no one can ever say I'm not.

I stepped up to the plate and looked after these girls.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Can't do that here... we have to be separated a year before we can go into court for a divorce.

I can't afford a lawyer. I'm barely paying the bills right now.. how the heck can I afford a lawyer?

I don't get any money from her.


----------



## GutPunch

Can't Can't Can't

The favorite word for people who don't get anything done.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You tell me how a person that can barely get groceries or pay the mortgage is supposed to pay a $2000 retainer fee...

Answer that?


----------



## 06Daddio08

You paying anything of hers?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Nope... she does own half the truck but it's my transportation so I have been making the payments.

I pay everything in the house... I pay nothing that is just hers.. like her own VISA.. etc.

I pay everything at the pizzeria cause that is my only source of income so if i lose it.. I lose my paycheck. She takes nothing from the business in the form of money.


----------



## GutPunch

Sell something, extra job, borrow it from bank, retirement, just get it done. 

How could you possibly be the best Dad you can be in this mental state. Your girls need a happy healthy Daddy and you clearly aren't there yet. 

Look, I may be blunt but I am on your side. I have/am going thru exactly what you have been hit with more or less. I have custody of two little ones and my wife cheated on me because she is a drug addict. Never called once to talk to my kids ever. I lost 30 lbs in a month and I'm thin. 

Get it done. So you can move on and find happiness.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have nothing to sell.. everything is maxed thanks to my ex.....

Basically I'm barely making it right now..

I'm hoping this job opportunity will give me income to do at.


----------



## GutPunch

IF one your kids had Cancer would you be able to raise the money?

I think you could. 

Right now your WW is a cancer and needs to be eradicated. She needs to be paying support. Get her in front of a judge asap. It's the only way out of this nightmare.

Good luck on the job.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We have universal health care. It is paid for here.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It's done.... I went to her house and she said she doesn't love me anymore.

I said a ton in an hour. Let her know how much of a rotten person she is for doing this to me twice.

She want to got o mediation and said I will keep the girls.

My mom wants to give me the retainer and crush her for doing this.

I don't know what to do.


----------



## GutPunch

Uh! Take the money. Pay her back when you can.

Hire attorney.

Divorce.

Find happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If I fight I run the risk of losing the kids. In mediation she won't fight for the kids.

She offered me $350 a month... I told her what about the last 9 months.

She told me that she is scared that I am gonna try to crush her.

I said you have no idea how i feel about getting F$cked over twice. She said sorry..... well of course she will say that.


----------



## GutPunch

You won't lose your kids. A judge is going to look at the fact that you are their primary care giver now and that she has essentially abandoned them with zero child support. I like your odds. 

However, mediation is a good idea. Get the lawyer. He will determine what is a fair number.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know if i can sit across from her...

Can lawyers do this without me?


----------



## Wazza

Sad, I am not happy that your marriage is over, not one bit. But I am happy for you that it is resolved. You know many of us saw this coming. I am sure so did you. I admire you for sticking to your beliefs.

I don't know the legalities of your situation, but what is it that fighting her with a lawyer gives you that mediation doesn't? What does it cost to try mediation first?

Let her be scared you would crush her. Let her think you are setting up to sue. She might give you more of what you want to avoid it.

As for fighting for the girls...really? It is sadly SOOOOOO obvious what they mean to her for how often she talks to them, how much she pays to their upkeep. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is one thing to end a marriage and quite another to walk out on your kids.....

Sadly, I don't think very much of Lisa. I think you deserve better.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She was bawling in her hands saying.. please don't try to crush her.

After about an house of me letting her know what i thought... and trust me.. the words were colorful and that she is cold and mean etc. I had one last cry in my hands... got up without looking at her or a word .. put on my shoes and left her house.

I know her stress is at 110% right now.

From now on nothing is being said. I'm going to Staples and getting three new binders like the first time and start my court books.

I will give my lawyer a copy of the book from the last time through.

She is going to pay for putting me through 9 months of hell and grief...


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She was bawling in her hands saying.. please don't try to crush her.
> 
> After about an house of me letting her know what i thought... and trust me.. the words were colorful and that she is cold and mean etc. I had one last cry in my hands... got up without looking at her or a word .. put on my shoes and left her house.
> 
> I know her stress is at 110% right now.
> 
> From now on nothing is being said. I'm going to Staples and getting three new binders like the first time and start my court books.
> 
> I will give my lawyer a copy of the book from the last time through.
> 
> She is going to pay for putting me through 9 months of hell and grief...



I cannot like this enough.

Read the 180 and live it. Detach.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm going out with friends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

Jason, I have been following your situation since the beginning, I somewhat know what you feel, the only way you can go forward is fully complete the divorce, you are not gaining any points by delaying 
you must start over, if she will come around to be the model mother and wife than you can always date her after your are divorced, i have never seen any WAW come back with the Left behind Husband behaving indecisive and "weak" in fact the only few times that I did see that happening was only when the left behind husband was strong, decisive, pursued the divorce to the end and started dating, in fact there is one on TAM, fellow Canadian, nick named Canguy, search him and read his story.

his WAW came back and is actively begging him for a second chance and only because he let her go, you should do the same.


----------



## GutPunch

Mike11 said:


> Jason, I have been following your situation since the beginning, I somewhat know what you feel, the only way you can go forward is fully complete the divorce, you are not gaining any points by delaying
> you must start over, if she will come around to be the model mother and wife than you can always date her after your are divorced, i have never seen any WAW come back with the Left behind Husband behaving indecisive and "weak" in fact the only few times that I did see that happening was only when the left behind husband was strong, decisive, pursued the divorce to the end and started dating, in fact there is one on TAM, fellow Canadian, nick named Canguy, search him and read his story.
> 
> his WAW came back and is actively begging him for a second chance and only because he let her go, you should do the same.



My WAW falls into this category. She calls everyday in an effort to right her wrong. I was decisive however. I discovered an EA on Friday met with Lawyers on Monday. Worked the 180 for months until she finally broke.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you guys. The girls are ok.. I offered to get them therapy if they want. My mom has them tonight and I went to a friend's graduation celebration. It's good to be out. My parents offered to help build the girls New bedrooms in the house and my dad said he would help with the roof. 
Im gonna look for a day job so I can be at home at night. Time to work on me. 
I'm not going to talk to her at the kid swaps either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am so pissed off right now.

I got taken.. how the hell am I ever gonna trust another woman. 

I feel like a dip $hit for letting this happen. 

She just sat there saying.. I tried to make it work.. it tried to get the feeling there.. Bull$hit.!!

I won't be the last guy she hurts... I always figured she was a narcissist....

Right now I feel like I don't want anyone 10 feet near me except my girls... 

The nice thing is that my friends I was with tonight said that I should spend more time with them...they enjoy my company. 

The problem is that they live an hour away and my truck gets 14mpg on a good day.

This has been the first time I have been out since Sept. 2012.

My mother said she will take the kids anytime I want.

I told Lisa earlier during our "discussion" that I never once considered her to take the girls while I went out because she shows NO concern for them any other time.. no phone calls, no texts, no nothing. I told her she gets them for 10 hours on Saturday as that is the only effort she has done for these children for the past 9 months.

I said.. will I ever see the 2000 plus she DIDN't pay while I almost lost the house, barely paid the bills on the pizzeria, borrowed money to get groceries... while she lived her NEW life. 

I said.. I kiss all that goodbye. 

She said you never asked for money. I said I shouldn't have to ask for money when it is for the best interest of OUR children. 

She said she read my message about Sarah's teeth and was annoyed.. I said WTF.. it was about your daughters teeth.. it was health issues and you were annoyed? That says a ton .. She said she was sorry and should have said something.


Well.. I'll tell you.. she gets MINIMUM information. My mother is paying for Sarah's teeth and Lisa gets NOTHING for info unless she asks.. and when she asks she will get the MINIMUM needed to shut her up.

I'm done... she will get grades.. when she asks. If she doesn't ask.. she gets nothing..
She will only know about Sarah teeth.. when she asks.. otherwise nothing is coming from me..

She is going to learn that for her to be an active parent in the lives of her girls she is now going to have to ask.. as I'm not providing $hit from now on.

She can friggin' starve to death.. but I want my $350 a month... 

Her car is a piece of $hit and I was going to fix it... now it can die for all I care. I was going to put the other car on the road for me.. but since she will probably get it in the divorce .. I'm not doing anything to it.. and I hope the brakes seized so when the tow truck gets it it doesn't move.

If she wants it. She can get it taken on a flatbed with her money. 

She can rope some other dude into looking after all the $hit I did. She will see that I did more.

I sat in her living room and said... " I stepped up to the plate....I looked after the girls when you said I would fail, I kept the restaurant afloat when you told the bookkeeper that I would bankrupt it....I ran the house, fed the kids, clothed the kids, made lunches, dealt with sick kids, talked to the school, took them to the doctor, did all the $hit you said I could never do... and I did it. I became the man you said I would never be...and looked what you did.... Screwed me over twice... now I have to tell the girls for a SECOND time that there mother is not coming home when you sat on the couch every weekend all winter... you know what.. screw you"

I don't know where I'm headed... I'm sad, mad, and very confused.

she is not even gonna get so much as a quick look from me at kid swap.. I won't even give her the dignity of her seeing one more tear from me.. because it would be one tear too many wasted on a narcissistic, cold, mean woman that is so consumed with herself that see can't even see past her own nose to see what she lost.. and I won't allow her to even the slightest knowledge that I am even sad because of this. 

For her to see me sad would only show to her that she won... and she hasn't .. not one bit. She lost.. she lost the best man she is ever gonna find.. the best father she is ever gonna find and the best husband she is ever gonna find. 

Screw her and her frickin tarot cards, and her negative vibes.. and negative energy.. I hope that negative energy haunts her the rest of her life. She is a sad, unhappy person.

Screw her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I woke up this morning extremely sad. 

I feel like the day after she left in July. I didn't think I would fell as bad as I this morning.

This morning I unfriended our last common friend on Facebook. I don't need anyone running back to her about me. If I'm going in a new direction then I need to do it without prying eyes of her friends.

My friend who is the male advocate in divorce told me to get her to sign an agreement stating what she said she would agree to yesterday. 

That she would pay $350 a month, visit the child on Saturdays from 10 am to 8:30 pm and that I would be the primary care giver in a joint custody arrangement.

I thinking I should mail it to her or have one of the children give it to her on visitation day and return it to me at night.

I'll do some research on what should be in it. 

She will need to have a witness when she signs it.

Today sucks really bad


----------



## happyman64

Oh Sad

It was actually good to see you finally get really mad and focus that anger at your wife.

Sorry about your marriage but in a way I am not.

Why?

Your wife is a selfish, miserable person.

You deserve better.

So focus Sad and stop letting Lisa waste your time anymore.

Use your attorney. Protect yourself and your kids. Get custody.

And most of all do not crush Lisa. Get child support from her.

But I honestly think the less time she has with you and your girls the better off you will all be.

And the sooner you can move on the happier you will be.

HM64


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

she was an hour and a half late to pick up the children for visitation today. She didn't text me.. but my daughter to say she didn't set her alarm. 

That pisses me off and goes on the list..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I feel like crap tonight.. lots of emotions. I started crying getting groceries of all places. Try to hide that from the people around you.. and the place was PACKED...

I feeling pretty down. I don't want to do anything. There is laundry to do, there are dishes to do, there is stuff to get done outside. I don't feel like doing any of it.

I just feel like curling in a ball and cry...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I noticed today she transferred some money over to our joint account from her private account. She was talking about giving me this cause we got a nasty bank letter the other day. 

She didn't send me any info on what she wanted done with it.. so I put it towards the debit we talked about last week.

My step father says I should write her a receipt for the money and put it as child support. Then when I go to court and if she tries to take the children I can say she was already paying child support.. so it looks like she agreed to it ( which I suppose she did)

How do I get her to stop texting my daughter when it should be coming to me. really.. she should have sent that text to me this morning telling me she was late. Not to my daughter.

Would it be ok to send correspondence with my daughter to her on visitation day.. of course in a sealed envelope so I don't have to look or get near her?

I figure it can have a copy of report cards, receipt for child support, etc in the envelope.. or is that just as bad as her texting my daughter to avoid talking to me?

Should I just mail it to her once a month instead of using my daughter?

REALLY CONFUSED ON WHAT TO DO.


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## happyman64

Sad

good idea about the money.

And yes she is avoiding you.

For now deal with the big issues.

Custody
Child Support
Divorce


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

when I get to work on Monday and have access to my printer I will work on a separation agreement based on what she said yesterday.

$350 a month child support, I get custody of the children.

I think I will leave it as Joint custody as going for Sole Custody would only be out of angry and that isn't fair to the girls.

I'm going to move from texts to e-mails just like during our court case. I'm working on getting new binders together for the lawyer. court and me..

I'm up in the air if I just suck up the 9 months of child support I lost out on or just go ahead from here.

This might be sick to think.. but I'm glad that I left without saying anything.. cause now she has to sit and wait to see what I'm gonna do.. it is kinda empowering.


----------



## greenfern

Please do get the separation letter done Monday it's really important to get her to sign immediately while she feels guilty.

Also I wonder since she hasn't lived with you for almost a year you can probably back date the separation date. Could you file divorce now based on that date? I'm also in Canada and e did that, still takes a couple months but you won't have to wait another year.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It's done.... I went to her house and she said she doesn't love me anymore.
> 
> I said a ton in an hour. Let her know how much of a rotten person she is for doing this to me twice.
> 
> She want to got o mediation and said I will keep the girls.
> 
> My mom wants to give me the retainer and crush her for doing this.
> 
> I don't know what to do.


She actually did this to you once. You did it to yourself the second time. At least now you can move foward with no questions. She won't become who you want her to and maybe she never was that person.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I picked the kids up from our pizzeria which is our kid swap point.

I'm almost home and my phone rings and it is Lisa. I let it go to voice mail.

I check the message and she is stuck on the side of the road. It threw a belt so she has no charging, water pump and it was overheating. I turn the truck around.

She was saying.. I am so sorry for bothering you but I didn't know who else to go call. 

I call her back. Again she is apologizing to me about bothering me. All I say to her is .. "pull over and I will be there"

I drive the 30 minutes to her car. She spit off a belt and the car was steaming.

I got out my tow rope out of the truck, hooked it up and said " I will tow you to Wal-Mart tonight"

We get there.. I'm very quiet, unhook the ropes and I drive her back to her house. She basically said nothing other than mumbling "stupid car..stupid car"

She quietly said "thank-you " as I dropped her off at her house.

I have a key to her car, so tomorrow I am going to fix it in the parking lot and give it back to her. I will get her from her house when it is done.

Before you all bash me for helping her... here are my reasons.

1. You never ever leave someone stranded no matter how badly they treated me. I would have done the same for my brother and we haven't talked for 5 years.

2. I know she has no money to fix the car cause she gave me her last $200 today that I paid a bill with.

3. To me.. it is the right thing to do. I don't have to like it.. but she does need her car to make money for my child support. If she pays a mechanic $300 to fix it.. that will be $300 I won't see next month..

I might have said 4 words the entire time. I hope she is feeling like a piece of $hit right now for having to turn to someone that she ripped out a heart from and he still came to help. That says something about me as a person.. a good guy and I can hold my head high as I send her off into the sunset. I was the better person.

OK guys.. let me have it.


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## GutPunch

I have no problem with it as long as you do not
expect anything in return. She is the mother of your 
kids. However, leave it at that. Do not get mad if she
does not thank you enough. Fix it and go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The best thing about it was.. my daughter saw how upset I was driving home after dropping Lisa off and she said to me " Dad.. I know you couldn't just leave her.. I know" 

For 13 she has it all figured out. What a good kid 

I am just going to hand her my copy of the extra car key tomorrow.. I won't have a use for it after tomorrow.


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## happyman64

I am going to let you have it.

You did the right thing and you handled the situation as best you could....


----------



## Wazza

GutPunch said:


> I have no problem with it as long as you do not expect anything in return. She is the mother of your
> kids. However, leave it at that. Do not get mad if she
> does not thank you enough. Fix it and go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP wrote exactly what I would have.

Jason, I kept quiet yesterday, but hatred of Lisa should only be a step along the path to indifference. Your kids watch what you do and you taught them an incredible lesson today. Besides, how are they going to feel to know your mum is sitting stranded on the roadside?

Plus she handed over cash. That is new. Maybe she is trying, not to get back together (clearly!!) but to do the right thing.

I hope you get past the pain that makes you want to crush her, because from what I have read that is not you. I hope you close out the divorce, do it civilly through mediation rather than handing wads of cash to lawyers, and move on.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. it is obvious that there isn't another man in the situation as she would have called him.

She is losing a good man that goes out of his way to help people. Even people he is upset with or has broken him into little pieces.

I know that if I just broke up with someone, the last person I would want to call is the person that I broke up with.

I had a good cry last night.. and I bet she did too. I hope she saw how much I really did for her.. and hopefully she won't take the next person for granted like she did me.


----------



## tacoma

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It's done.... I went to her house and she said she doesn't love me anymore.
> 
> I said a ton in an hour. Let her know how much of a rotten person she is for doing this to me twice.
> 
> She want to got o mediation and said I will keep the girls.
> 
> My mom wants to give me the retainer and crush her for doing this.
> 
> I don't know what to do.


Take the money and crush her for doing this.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I had a good cry last night.. and I bet she did too. I hope she saw how much I really did for her.. and hopefully she won't take the next person for granted like she did me.


You changed the tire...great.

The above is what I told you not to do.


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## happyman64

Sad

The crush time was last year.

Take the money and divorce your wife.

Try to move the date to your last separation so you can move on quickly.

And go find someone that loves you,will love your children and will be a better wife and mother than Lisa.


HM64


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## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls,

First off, I commend you for being there for your daughters. They will remember this throughout life. My mother left when my twin and I were eleven and out dad stepped up and that's why we respect him now.

So it seems like you're still worried about what she's thinking and how she's feeling and what she will do. Just waiting for her to have a change of heart and come back and everything be like it used to be. Unfortunately you'll drive yourself crazy worrying about things you have no control over and you'll be angry with yourself later on when you think back on it. You've been a table dog waiting for "change of heart" scraps. This will leave you in limbo for as long as you do it.

Put yourself first (well and your daughters). You deserve better than wanting someone who doesn't love you back. Save fond memories or whatever but realize your ex is no longer who she was to you.

Good luck.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well. I fixed her car. I went and fixed it then went and picked her up. No need for her to sit for the two hours it took me to make the repairs. 

I picked her up at the house and handed her a receipt for yesterday child support payment.

She asked me how much it was to fix her car. She said that it isn't far for me to pay for her car. I stayed quiet. She asked again.

I just quietly said to her " I told myself that I would take care of you no matter what happened".. she paused for a bit. I suppose that wasn't the answer she expected. She offered me gas money. I said.. "I'm fine"

She tried to talk to me about the Nascar race on, basically tried to make small talk like nothing was wrong. Maybe she was trying to keep it from being awkward...I don't know. I didn't say anything.

She told me how she was prepping Sarah if her period came.. and about girl stuff.

I just stayed quiet.

I stopped at her car.. she said quietly "Thank You for helping me".

I didn't say anything.. I just wanted to cry...so I figured it would be better to keep my mouth shut.

She shut the door and I drove away.

I guess that's it....


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now she can go to her therapy session and tell her how much of a jerk I am.. and that I never took care of her.


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## Wazza

She isn't coming back. You should at least require she cover the costs of the repair.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Basically it was a goodbye present and I can end it with my head held high and reassure myself that I am a good guy.


----------



## GutPunch

Being a good guy is what has got you into
this mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It's done now... can't go backwards. It was what I felt in my heart, so that is what I said.

I was quite surprised that she wanted to make small talk.

She is divorcing me and wants to make small talk like we are buddies? WTF..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now this afternoon I get two texts from her on how to check if she has enough coolant in her car, and when stuff to buy.

I told her how to check it and what to buy.

Suddenly we are buds?

I did check her oil before I picked her up to get her car. I didn't want to fix it to have her blow it up with no oil.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Stop replying to things that do not concern your children, she can find and pay a mechanic to do vehicle work.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well at least it shows there isn't another guy in the picture.. cause he could have picked her up.. 

It actually shows how little her friend base is since she had to call me... If I torn someone's heart out.. that person would be the LAST person I would call..


----------



## GutPunch

For all you know she may not want to bother OM with her problems cuz in her mind his time is so valuable. 

Please quit focusing on her. Have you Codependent No More yet?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Nope.. I have spent too days crying my eyes out.


----------



## Wazza

Jason, she is gone.

I believe that during the reconciliation she may have been initially confused but then she was trying to send the hint.

I believe that for your own sanity you need to create some distance from her. Helping with her car was good, but it's clear you can't be friends without getting your hopes up right now.

You are a catch for someone...on time you will meet them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

He chatting with me candidly in the truck told me she is not really upset at all about this.

At least that is how I took it..

I was glad to hear that she is prepping my oldest to become a woman... and maybe she thought it was the only time she would ever be able to say it to me.. but I agree... the way I feel for this woman.. I need to be distance.

Last night she came in the pizzeria during the swap and passed me with her head down on the way to the washroom...

I immediately told the girls I'm going to the store and left until I knew she was gone when I got back....

Not even ten minutes later her car is broke... 

I feel exactly like I did when I found her note. The world has come full circle on me.


----------



## greenfern

I really wouldn't tell her how to check the coolant in her car! Seriously, she needs to learn to fend for herself!!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

For 16 years I have done EVERYTHING for her car.. she only know how to check the oil.

I know it is cake and eat it too....


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> For 16 years I have done EVERYTHING for her car.. she only know how to check the oil.
> 
> I know it is cake and eat it too....


I wouldn't have a problem with helping her to a degree here. Like you would a friend, not like you would a wife. But only when you can be detached about it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Tonight I got a few more texts.. mostly about the creep in a white car that has been trying to pick up children around here.

I asked her for a safe word we can give the kids.. we did that.

She said the car is running great and thanked me again for my help.

She has texted me more today then she has in months...

Weird..


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Tonight I got a few more texts.. mostly about the creep in a white car that has been trying to pick up children around here.
> 
> I asked her for a safe word we can give the kids.. we did that.
> 
> She said the car is running great and thanked me again for my help.
> 
> She has texted me more today then she has in months...
> 
> Weird..


Not weird at all. She feels guilty and is trying to be nice. 

Possibly also she is trying to keep a door open to manipulate you in future. And possibly she is scared of you.

I have no doubt of the first one. Long time since I was dumped by a girlfriend but that is how I remember it being.

You need to find an interest where you can socialise with both genders. Dunno if your racing is such an interest. If not, what else could you do? Join a club, take a class......I am not suggesting a meat market. You don't strike me as that sort of guy. But you want to be in a relationship. Gotta start making friends with women.

I can't help thinking some divorced or widowed women with kids would work well for you. You are such a family man.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I hope I can get one of the job I applied for so I'm not alone everyday at the pizzeria everyday.

My brain is my worst enemy.

I see my doctor and my therapist this week.. they both need to know what is going on.


----------



## Thundarr

It doesn't have to be this way Sad. This truly has to 84 pages of anti-180. It's like a "what not to do to get a spouse back" story. Sad, every time she sees you beg her to come back (and that is what you're still doing passive aggressively), it just lowers your worth in her mind more. You're teaching her to see you as weak and unable to handle life on your own. That's the perception that you present to her anyway. Really its' too late for her to come back but this way of thinking is going to follow you into the next relationship with similar results.

Insisting on her not paying you for repairs is just another symptom of passive aggressive, martyrdom. She doesn't want to owe you anything but you're determined to find ways for her to owe you or for her to see how wrong she is.

You ,Sad, are responsible for placing value on yourself and then others will follow your lead. What you're doing now de-values you and boost her ego in the process. She's thought for a long time that she can change her mind at any time and that it would be such a gift to you for her to take you back. Do you not see how messed up that is?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do.. and I am gonna mention that to my therapist.

He has me writing 5 things that make me happy everyday. I was doing great until Friday.. I haven't found anything that makes me happy over the weekend.

I tried looking for something today and I suppose the nice weather did make me happy. When I walked outside it was warm and I like that.

I have turned back to some music for some inner peace. I picked up my acoustic for the first time in years. I having been playing it in my spare time now. It might be only love songs that I play right now but it is somewhat soothing.

I just really need to get out of this Pizzeria Jail I'm in and get out with people. Like I said earlier... I am my own worst enemy when I'm alone.

She keeps busy all day everyday with her job and I think that has allowed her the freedom to not have to think of what is going to happen in the next few months. I notice her seperating away from me as soon as she left the pizzeria for this job

I need that release and get out and do what I really like to do.. be around people. I hope I get the same release.. meet new people, be around people rather than living in my own purgatory. 

I don't want to do the online dating thing ( I don't want to date.. just making a point) .. I want to meet people naturally. Surprisingly people do look for rings.. I know I do.

I would like the next person to be met casually .. like when I met Lisa. We just happened to cross paths. 

I don't want to manufacture a relationship out of a picture on a website.

I think turning to music and my racing while be a great distraction while I heal.

I already recorded one song and put it on Youtube.. It was from a great instrumental I found. I put it on there and didn't link it to anything. I just wanted to step outside my comfort zone and putting it on Youtube is certainly outside my comfort zone. If someone finds it.. that's great.

I sang "Bed of Roses".. I'm not a great singer but what the heck.. maybe someone will like it.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have turned back to some music for some inner peace. I picked up my acoustic for the first time in years. I having been playing it in my spare time now. It might be only love songs that I play right now but it is somewhat soothing.


Now would be a good time to try to write songs. There's nothing like loss to bring out creativity that you never knew you had.

At the very least, it will be theraputic and there's always a chance you'll write something that that is picked up by someone. Wouldn't it be nice to find something positive out of all the negative feelings floating around in your head.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She always said ..... you never wrote a song for me.

Since I was a teen I wrote a song for each of my girlfriends.

I have been thinking about writing a song ABOUT her but not FOR her.


----------



## K.C.

About her but for you sounds good to me.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lisa sent me a text today.

Her friend (who was the one that convinced her to leave me) needs a truck for her new business. She asked if I would sell her mine.

I really can't afford the payments and the 13 mpg it gets so I agreed and set a price.

I will pay off my loan and put the rest into fixing up the Sebring ( which was the car I took away from her when she left)

The issue is that I wouldn't be able to go racing cause I need something with a hitch.

I didn't say to her this but I inflated the amount the car needed to get back on the road to cover having a hitch installed .

It would be nice to get 30 mpg again and not have to pay the $250 a month truck payment for the rest of the year.

When and if things ever get better I could always buy another one.. and the newer ones are better on fuel anyways.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Crazy flood gates opened tonight. Almost as bad as when she left the first time.

All I keep thinking is.. why did she not just leave me alone ...

I was doing alright. doing this a second time is WAY worse.

I think I'm my own worst enemy right now.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Crazy flood gates opened tonight. Almost as bad as when she left the first time.
> 
> All I keep thinking is.. why did she not just leave me alone ...
> 
> I was doing alright. doing this a second time is WAY worse.
> 
> I think I'm my own worst enemy right now.


You are your own worst enemy. But at least you know it.

Pick a day in the near future. Write that date on a mirror or on your refrigerator.

That date is the day you decide to move on.

No more moaning about Lisa or the Divorce.

You make a conscious effort to have a better life for you and your girls.

Just Do it!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My poor therapist is gonna get an earful tomorrow.. 

I have a dr appointment tomorrow too.. I'll let him know what is going on. He might want to keep an eye on my meds through this.

This sucks


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> You are your own worst enemy. But at least you know it.
> 
> Pick a day in the near future. Write that date on a mirror or on your refrigerator.
> 
> That date is the day you decide to move on.
> 
> No more moaning about Lisa or the Divorce.
> 
> You make a conscious effort to have a better life for you and your girls.
> 
> Just Do it!


The hell with her.

She's just trying to get out as cheaply as possible.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Had an awesome therapy session... 

Have lots to work on.. 

I have a set of rules to adhere to..
_________________________________________________

Rule #1 

SHUT UP AND LISTEN

________________________________________________

Rule #2

1. E-mails from Lisa - wait 4 to 5 hours

2. Text messages from Lisa - wait 4 to 5 hours even if she is stranded on the side of the road... no exceptions.

3. Answer "yes" or "no" to all questions. Unless it has to do with the kids the answer is "No"

___________________________________________________

Learn this Rule:

Power & Control Words

Let

Allow

Permit


If I can say any of these words in a situation with Lisa then I am not in control and she has the power.

________________________________________________

I will see him weekly now... for a while...

This guy is awesome and I feel great when I leave his office .. he brings out things in me that I don't see normally and that is great.


----------



## K.C.

LikeLikeLike!

Sounds like he could be a great fit for you. Good luck!


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Had an awesome therapy session...
> 
> Have lots to work on..
> 
> I have a set of rules to adhere to..
> _________________________________________________
> 
> Rule #1
> 
> SHUT UP AND LISTEN
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> Rule #2
> 
> 1. E-mails from Lisa - wait 4 to 5 hours
> 
> 2. Text messages from Lisa - wait 4 to 5 hours even if she is stranded on the side of the road... no exceptions.
> 
> 3. Answer "yes" or "no" to all questions. Unless it has to do with the kids the answer is "No"
> 
> ___________________________________________________
> 
> Learn this Rule:
> 
> Power & Control Words
> 
> Let
> 
> Allow
> 
> Permit
> 
> 
> If I can say any of these words in a situation with Lisa then I am not in control and she has the power.
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> I will see him weekly now... for a while...
> 
> This guy is awesome and I feel great when I leave his office .. he brings out things in me that I don't see normally and that is great.


Jason,

This is a big deal.

You've found the right one.

Stay with him until you are better.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I told him that I enjoy his no bull**** approach and I think we will be spending lots of time together. 

We are going weekly for a bit.

I actually felt like doing something tonight. I popped the hood on my old car and got it running. I want to take it for a drive as I find it very relaxing.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I told him that I enjoy his no bull**** approach and I think we will be spending lots of time together.
> 
> We are going weekly for a bit.
> 
> I actually felt like doing something tonight. I popped the hood on my old car and got it running. I want to take it for a drive as I find it very relaxing.


Is it possible to go 2x/week for the first month?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The Shut up and Listen is not him talking to me.

It is basically I need to learn not only to listen but HEAR what people say. I need to let people talk till there blue in the face.. don't interrupt.. just take in what they say THEN voice my opinion.

We I was working it out with Lisa I talked and talked and talked and it just made it worse.

If I only would have SHUT UP I would have heard her months ago saying it was done. I thought I could talk my way out of this. Of course I couldn't.

We are gonna work on it. For now he wants me to NOT TALK and let people talk.

He used a great example of how I can already do this.

He said.. at your pizzeria you have to LISTEN and UNDERSTAND what they are saying. If I didn't let them speak I would never get the order for the pizza. If I didn't listen I wouldn't know what to make and I wouldn't get paid and I lose a customer. 

He said treat it the same way with people. You are just listening to their order.. then make it and present it back complete.

Awesome guy..

Here is another one he did and it is blunt so I hope no one is offended by this but I think it is perfect.

This is when I told him that I will hate to think of her moving on to another guy..... this is his questioning to me.

Him: you show up at her house and knock on the door. She answers the door holding his D#ck in her hand. What do you do.

Me: I would punch him in the face.

Him: So.. now your arrested, your kids are taken away cause you have a criminal record and she still has his D#ck in her hand.. what did you accomplish?

Me: Nothing but hurt myself

Him: exactly.. there is nothing you can do about what she does


Blunt.. but true


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

About seeing him 2x a week.... that would be over a hundred a week and I am struggling to support the girls on what I make now.

I am applying like crazy to jobs to get me out of the pizzeria and earn a decent living for my girls and I.


----------



## Wazza

Do what is possible and don't stress about what isn't. I agree twice a week would be good, but if you can't do that, just work EXTRA hard at homework.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

trust me.. I am..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This morning was awful... crying fits to stupid videos on youtube.. 

This afternoon has been fine. The doc increased my dosage on my antidepressant but the crying fits were really intense today.

I must be grieving again ... that will suck if this becomes routine


----------



## Wazza

Be strong


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm trying... looking for things that make me happy.. that is part of my homework..

Someday's it is harder to find happy things than others.


----------



## twowheeltravel

Ive been following your plight from the beginning and I'm sorry your going through this. I think it's great that you found an excellent counselor who can help give you the baby steps to get out of this mental and emotional torture. Id like to leave you with a couple tips that Ive learned along the way of my own journey through similar situation if it's OK.

*A stable peaceful home life for your little girls with a loving, responsible happy father is the most important thing in the world right now. Nothing else..... Put your energy into your health, mental and emotional stability so you can be there for them. You and your girls deserve better. You will not allow another person be the rudder to your joy and peace.*

Tape this message somewhere where you can see it when you go to bed and when you wake up every day. Read it out loud until it becomes embedded into your mind and it's an automatic thought. It should automatically pop in your head when your considering any decision in your life especially when it comes to dealing with the wife. 

Make a decision to stop thinking about the what ifs, the shoulda's the coulda's... whatever. If your wife is not on board with your family goals then make a decision about never going to waste another tear over the situation. You can and will move on with out her and be a better and stronger person for it. 

You don't need to define YOUR life and identity by HER lack of commitment to restoring the family and marriage integrity. Don't let the tail wag the dog. Be decisive.. Keep your dignity and self respect intact.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OMG.. thank you so much...

I am printing this off to put on the wall at work and on my fridge at home.

That is so true..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls




----------



## twowheeltravel

Another thing that may be helpful is to do something about the anxiety and depression part of your life besides just meds. There's been a long dragged out fight between your heart and mind and your wavering and second guessing yourself in the past may be causing your body stress and craziness. Can you take a day or three off to be by yourself and take a break from your routine?. Rent a cabin by a lake., go fishing or canoeing, bring your guitar. Leave the self help books at home and stay off TAM for the time being. Your taking time off this "wife leaving you sad with two little girls PROJECT." This is your time to give your self a break from thinking about all the crap and learn to self nurture yourself for your own sanity. Put everything else out of your mind and give yourself permission to refresh your soul. Everybody else can take care of themselves for one or two days. The world won't fall apart. Don't think about anybody else for the time being. Feel the sunshine, the breeze, the sound of the water lapping against the waves. Play your guitar and enjoy what's inside you coming out through your instrument. Fall asleep in a chair by a crackling fireplace. Savor the moment, The hour, The day like good cup of coffee on a Sunday morning. No pressure to be anywhere, do anything for anyone else or work on yourself. Just enjoy your own company and appreciate yourself even though others may not. Pat yourself on the back for being a caring person who wants to do the right thing for your family. Many people don't. During this time when your ready try to imagine and visualize the life you want from here on for you and your girls. ( Your Mission) Ask yourself what prevents that from coming to reality? Think about what's needed to get there and that becomes your road map to get there. 

Grip the steering wheel, hit the gas and hold on tight. Good things will be coming your way!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK... I don't think I broke the 5 hour rule on phone calls..

This is what happened.

She called my phone this morning I let it go to voice mail.

"You need to call the supplier (for all of the stock at the pizzeria) they called and said unless they get a check they will not deliver your next order. I had to take time out from my day to deal with this so you better handle this"

I'm $hitting.. as the pizzeria is my only form of income.. I get to work .. call the district manager and she is "I didn't hear that.. I will get back to you."

An hour later...after I just about had a nervous breakdown and asking my dad for a loan.. I get a call back..

The District manager says.. it is not you.. it is (Lisa's work). She is the contact number for their delivers since she is in shipping. They have tried for weeks and she hasn't called them back.

After that I sent a Message that said "This is (Lisa's work)'s bill not mine. Listen to your messages before making calls like that to me!"

Her response..." I did listen sorry she didn't say it was for (Lisa's work).

I don't think that violates the 5 hour rule... that pissed me off and she was WRONG and needed to know. If you heard the tone of her voice it was like ... I knew he was gonna go broke with the pizzeria....

She actually said that to me back in November. She figured I would go broke in a few months. She used to call the bookkeeper every month to see how I was do during our first breakup.

It felt good to throw it back in her face as a.. screw you.. you made the mistake.. not me.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Wow. She was trying to accuse you of being incompetent, but it was her. I think an actual phone call instead of a text would have been the right reaction from you--she took time from _your_ day, after all.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OK... I don't think I broke the 5 hour rule on phone calls..
> 
> This is what happened.
> 
> She called my phone this morning I let it go to voice mail.
> 
> "You need to call the supplier (for all of the stock at the pizzeria) they called and said unless they get a check they will not deliver your next order. I had to take time out from my day to deal with this so you better handle this"
> 
> I'm $hitting.. as the pizzeria is my only form of income.. I get to work .. call the district manager and she is "I didn't hear that.. I will get back to you."
> 
> An hour later...after I just about had a nervous breakdown and asking my dad for a loan.. I get a call back..
> 
> The District manager says.. it is not you.. it is (Lisa's work). She is the contact number for their delivers since she is in shipping. They have tried for weeks and she hasn't called them back.
> 
> After that I sent a Message that said "This is (Lisa's work)'s bill not mine. Listen to your messages before making calls like that to me!"
> 
> Her response..." I did listen sorry she didn't say it was for (Lisa's work).
> 
> I don't think that violates the 5 hour rule... that pissed me off and she was WRONG and needed to know. If you heard the tone of her voice it was like ... I knew he was gonna go broke with the pizzeria....
> 
> She actually said that to me back in November. She figured I would go broke in a few months. She used to call the bookkeeper every month to see how I was do during our first breakup.
> 
> It felt good to throw it back in her face as a.. screw you.. you made the mistake.. not me.


Once you found out the truth, I wish you had just kept quiet.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know I should have let the truck show up at her work and they not be prepared? I can see your point.

That would certainly show her that she was the incompetent one not me.. Good point.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know I should have let the truck show up at her work and they not be prepared? I can see your point.
> 
> That would certainly show her that she was the incompetent one not me.. Good point.


Talk less - do more


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep... good point... 

I lost a good opportunity for her to learn a lesson about looking after herself. I looked after her again.. just like fixing her car.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Yep... good point...
> 
> I lost a good opportunity for her to learn a lesson about looking after herself. I looked after her again.. just like fixing her car.


Jason,

This process takes practice.

Another opportunity will be along shortly.

Be ready.


----------



## Wazza

Well there is certainly an argument for staying quiet. In one sense it depends if you can be detached about contact, and your track record is not great here. In another sense, it depends if her motivation was to hurt you ("See, you screwed up!!") or help you ("Hey, I know this will cause you problems if not sorted".) What if she was trying to look after you?

If unsure, I would give het the benefit of the doubt, assume she feels bad that she has hurt you and is trying to lessen that.

And sorry Sad, but feeling bad she's hurt you DOESN'T MEAN SHE HAS ANY THOUGHTS OF COMING BACK. (Cos I know how good you are at looking for straws that don't exist. So thought I would just repeat this to be sure it got through).


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

For sure.... lesson learned again.

This one really pissed me off as I thought I was gonna lose my income next week.. 

I still get a turning in my stomach when my phone rings and it is her. I guess that will take time too.

That is twice she called and I let it go to voice mail... that part is getting easier.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OMG...... This is Lisa's text right now..

" Hey I want to apologize again for that phone call this morning... Jen (our district manager) didn't specified it was for (her work).. I guess they've been paying on 30 day term not knowing it was 7 day..I talked to the girl in finance and had her deal with it. "

Surprising.. as that is NOT like her to apologize...

Too bad.. she can sit on it.. no reply from me..


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OMG...... This is Lisa's text right now..
> 
> " Hey I want to apologize again for that phone call this morning... Jen (our district manager) ne specified it was for (her work).. I guess they've been paying on 30 day term not knowing it was 7 day..I talked to the girl in finance and had her deal with it. "
> 
> Surprising.. as that is NOT like her to apologize...
> 
> Too bad.. she can sit on it.. no reply from me..


Better

She's starting to see how she treats you.

Get how this works?

Talk less - do more.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I like that 

Talk Less - Do More...

Goes perfect with 

Shut and Listen.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I never texted her back last night.. why bother.. what would I gain? Nothing.

The nice thing is that she actually sent a text to my oldest... that is Extremely RARE.

I hope that her therapist is telling her to communicate with her kids more.. cause she really liked it.

I can NO LONGER ever tell or ask her to call her children. Then that is me making rules for Lisa... that is wrong. I have to let Lisa decide to call her children as that would be Lisa's rule.|

The therapist pointed that out when I mentioned that. Good point I thought..I never thought of it that way.


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

You're on the road now.

Smiling here.


----------



## BWBill

_I know I should have let the truck show up at her work and they not be prepared? I can see your point.
_

Remember that she called you when she thought it was your problem. She was wrong, but she didn't try to hurt you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I talked with my dad about that today when I visited him. He think me at least letting her know that it was her issue was the right thing to do. He did mention like you that is would be "MEAN" for me to let it go.

She is responsible for that at her job... I would hate to see her get in crap at work.. cause I need her to work so I get my child support payment


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

So.... I guess Lisa was inside the pizzeria waiting for the kids this morning. She never does that. Since she has a key she is entitled.. but... it was just weird.

Tonight... 

I was helping at the pizzeria... thank goodness I was taking out a pizza... The Nascar race was on the TV there..

She walks in all cheery... asks me who I thought would win the race and if I thought Kenseth would win again... I said nothing.

I kept my head down and cut the pizza and put it in the box. 

Then she quietly gave the girls a hug and told them to have a good week and quite slowly left the Pizzeria...

Seriously? Once again she is trying to make small talk with me.

WTF!


----------



## Conrad

Stay the course

Ignore her.


----------



## Wazza

When you get past the heartbreak, Jason, you may find that she cares about you. She possibly wants to be friends. She just doesn't love you in the way you want. 

Right now that doesn't help you. Your heart is aching. You need distance. But in the long term, though you will be divorced, you may be friends again. Some guys can do that, some can't. 

The distance is essential right now, for you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't think I will be able to be her friend for everything we have been through. 

Can she not see that I am hurting? Last week I said nothing when I took her back to her car...I didn't respond to her apology on Friday, I dropped the kids off around the front of the pizzeria instead of behind where she parks so I didn't have to see her and suddenly she thinks I'm gonna have start having conversations with her when she walks in last night to drop off the kids?

Does she not get the hint? 

Why not just drop them off at the door like I do and leave like I do. She could have saw this morning that I didn't wanna see her or I would have came in the restaurant yesterday morning. I almost think she wanted me to go in the pizzeria yesterday morning for some strange reason (I usually grab the cash from the night before and go and make a deposit.. that is my routine).

Is she trying to torture me?


----------



## happyman64

Why would you want to be friends. Friends that are coparents are just that. Coparents. You do not have that. Ignore her. Only conversation is about kids and divorce. You need to do this. Stop focusing on Lisa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not really... I HOPE that she isn't around me at Kid Swap. 

While we were in court I parked 30 parking spaces away from her at the swap.

Now that we meet at a common spot that we both have access to she seems to try and make it so I HAVE to have contact with her.

She could easily do what I do and completely pass on the interaction.. but she isn't.

I understand if she has to use the bathroom.. but she specifically came in to TALK TO ME... GRRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have learned that keeping busy is very important to keeping me not feeling lonely.
It has been raining all day so I have been stuck inside. 

I tried watching a movie, I worked around the house and even went and picked up my daughters friend for a playday...

Now it's 6pm, raining outside, I have nothing to do and now I feel sad and lonely.

I'm proud of what I have been able to do in the past week since she said she wanted didn't love me anymore for the second time....but... after 9 months of zero physical contact from someone.. I am really starting to feel lonely at night.

It's not sex.. its lack of companionship. 

I really hope I get an interview for some of the jobs I applied for. I want to be out among people verses getting up alone, working all day alone, going home alone. Yes I do have the girls but it really isn't the same. 

I'm not ready to date but would like to be around people. 

Lets rules out one of the default answers. 

No.. I don't want to join a gym.

I really wish that I had a garage. There is so much work I need to do on the race yet the weather for the next few days is supposed to suck ( rain and wind).


----------



## K.C.

Meetup.com?


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have learned that keeping busy is very important to keeping me not feeling lonely.
> It has been raining all day so I have been stuck inside.
> 
> I tried watching a movie, I worked around the house and even went and picked up my daughters friend for a playday...
> 
> Now it's 6pm, raining outside, I have nothing to do and now I feel sad and lonely.
> 
> I'm proud of what I have been able to do in the past week since she said she wanted didn't love me anymore for the second time....but... after 9 months of zero physical contact from someone.. I am really starting to feel lonely at night.
> 
> It's not sex.. its lack of companionship.
> 
> I really hope I get an interview for some of the jobs I applied for. I want to be out among people verses getting up alone, working all day alone, going home alone. Yes I do have the girls but it really isn't the same.
> 
> I'm not ready to date but would like to be around people.
> 
> Lets rules out one of the default answers.
> 
> No.. I don't want to join a gym.
> 
> I really wish that I had a garage. There is so much work I need to do on the race yet the weather for the next few days is supposed to suck ( rain and wind).


Then join a gym!!

Just kidding, but do SOMETHING social. Take an evening class, join a drama society....whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The rain stopped so I went outside... helped pass the time


----------



## Wazza

Jason.

Pick something social that appeals even if you don't feel like it right now.

Force yourself to do it.

Discuss with your counsellor and get him t hold you accountable to it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The tough part is that I work until 7 sometimes 8 at night.. hard to go to events..

I have to make sure the kids have baths and make lunches and bed time..


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The tough part is that I work until 7 sometimes 8 at night.. hard to go to events..
> 
> I have to make sure the kids have baths and make lunches and bed time..


Lisa needs time with her kids. Can some of that not be time for you to be a social adult?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You mean I should let her come to the house and see the kids while I at work?

She lives 35 minutes away... not very convenient for that.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You mean I should let her come to the house and see the kids while I at work?
> 
> She lives 35 minutes away... not very convenient for that.


No.

I mean she has some sort if custody. Surely you are entitled to have a defined schedule with predictable times, and when she has the kids you should plan for some "you" time.

Where she has them is irrelevant, though your house is not where I would suggest. It is not her home any more. That should be clear to all.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Like clockwork she has the children every Saturday from 10 am to 8:30 pm.

We just went back to the same times we had when we were in court.


----------



## Wazza

What do you do with that time? And are you ok with those hours or would it help you to negotiate a variation? Is there someone else who can babysit?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Last Saturday I went for a drive in my old '65, visited my dad, worked on my racing mower, did some shopping, stopped for lunch.

It was a nice day. I kept busy.

That is my problem...when I have nothing to do all I feel is sad.

I need to keep busy. 

The problem is $$$ .. I don't have a lot left to join clubs and stuff.

When I went out a few Fridays ago.. my mom watched the girls. My oldest is 13 with her babysitting license so she can stay with my youngest...but that shows Lisa that I leave them alone to go out and do things. That came up in court when I did that last time.


----------



## Wazza

If your mum is willing, her watching the girls is a good thing IMO. Reminds them they have an extended family.

All the things you list are good things, but you need to make an effort at some sort of social interaction. You can't be the only guy in the world with limited money trying to solve this problem.

And I am 100% with you on the gym, but you have to look after your health and that requires some form of exercise.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm gonna get out my bike... take the kids for a ride since it is light out later now.

I have been looking at meet-up trying to see what is going on close to home.


----------



## Thundarr

Seems like her name here should be ex but you keep calling her Lisa.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm gonna get out my bike... take the kids for a ride since it is light out later now.
> 
> I have been looking at meet-up trying to see what is going on close to home.


You have a bike. Look for a social group who go riding Saturdays. Company AND exercise. And how much can it cost?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. saying Lisa is something I need to work on badly but after 17 years it is not over night.

I signed up for a group on Meet-up.com. 

I used to go to networking meeting when I was looking for a job...this really is no different. Impromptu meeting of people is what I do well.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know.. saying Lisa is something I need to work on badly but after 17 years it is not over night.
> 
> I signed up for a group on Meet-up.com.
> 
> I used to go to networking meeting when I was looking for a job...this really is no different. Impromptu meeting of people is what I do well.


Well Sad, the way I see it it that I've followed this thread more closely for a week or so. You are a week further removed now than you were last week when I started lurking.

Every day that passes is a day further removed and that's a good thing. Even when it hits you like a ton of bricks, the next day still comes and will gradually get better.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will say... everyday is getting better. I joined Meet-up.com and I'm looking for events to attend. I'm sad that there is nothing close to home.. but an hour drive isn't that bad for finding an event to attend.

There is a couple coming up that I might attend.. like bike riding and roller skating..

Right now I'm really geared up for the racing season. I want a few more of these..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Silly question.. but.. if I join a dating site.. should I use my racing pic from above as one of my pics? That was REAL happiness. My smile couldn't get any bigger then that.. and it's genuine.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Silly question.. but.. if I join a dating site.. should I use my racing pic from above as one of my pics? That was REAL happiness. My smile couldn't get any bigger then that.. and it's genuine.


YES you should>
Tractor racing; I love it.

What was the ex's problem. Keep going to events. You'll have a bunch of women chasing you who want a tough guy with a soft spot. You're just feeling down on yourself now because that's what betrayal and breakups do to people.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I talked to a few ladies that come in a few times a week. I asked them to explain some "womaneze" (what I call it when woman act and say things I don't understand).

I asked what they thought about her small talk. 

They said they think she has lost control and getting me to talk is a way for her to know that she still controls me.

Good.... by me not reacting or talking to her... I'm am in control of my own destiny..

That made me feel good about my path I'm on  I little boast today.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Another great session with my counselor. we are working on a few different things now.

-Reflective Listening - basically learn to repeat back some of what was told to me to help me listen.

-read an article called "Panic" so I can learn different techniques to use during a panic attack.

-working on getting Jason to like Jason and realize he is a good person *that is gonna be the hardest thing*

He liked that I didn't respond to her apology or that I didn't speak to her when she came in the pizzeria. It shows that I am getting better...

He said he knows I'm getting better 'cause I didn't cry.

I'm gonna see him next week again..


----------



## Wazza

Doing great Jason.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... today I get a call from Lisa. I let it go to voice mail. I guess she called the house before she called my cell. I had to go to my supplier for pizza dough.

She said she forgot that it was her friends B-day party tonight and would like to keep the kids over night. I waited a half hour before sending a text back. Trying to follow the rules the best I can. She was picking up the kids at the pizzeria at 10 and calls at 8:30 to ask me this !!!!!!!

I asked when the children would be coming back the next day. She said it depending when she woke up. I said I would like the kids back at Noon. If she is drinking then that is too bad. I have to set a time and that is my choice not hers.

She said "it will be a priority for her to have them back" .. I'm thinking.. GOOD.

Also her friend wants to buy my truck. I would have less than an hour to clean the truck. I basically said. No.. it is not ready for viewing as I had no notice. (the truck need to get steam cleaned extra) ...

Holy crap.. she really needs to keep notes or a calendar like I do.

she asked if she could pick the kids up at the house so the kids would have more time to get ready. I said "No. we're fine". I dropped the kids off as normal around the front of the pizzeria and I let them run around.

She had a lot of umms and ahh's in her message on the phone. 

Her texts are longer than they need to be. She is telling me about how she has to be back tomorrow to go into work to catch up on things...

My answers are short one and two word answers.. 

She needs to stop the small talk...


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... today I get a call from Lisa. I let it go to voice mail. I guess she called the house before she called my cell. I had to go to my supplier for pizza dough.
> 
> She said she forgot that it was her friends B-day party tonight and would like to keep the kids over night. I waited a half hour before sending a text back. Trying to follow the rules the best I can. She was picking up the kids at the pizzeria at 10 and calls at 8:30 to ask me this !!!!!!!
> 
> I asked when the children would be coming back the next day. She said it depending when she woke up. I said I would like the kids back at Noon. If she is drinking then that is too bad. I have to set a time and that is my choice not hers.
> 
> She said "it will be a priority for her to have them back" .. I'm thinking.. GOOD.
> 
> Also her friend wants to buy my truck. I would have less than an hour to clean the truck. I basically said. No.. it is not ready for viewing as I had no notice. (the truck need to get steam cleaned extra) ...
> 
> Holy crap.. she really needs to keep notes or a calendar like I do.
> 
> she asked if she could pick the kids up at the house so the kids would have more time to get ready. I said "No. we're fine". I dropped the kids off as normal around the front of the pizzeria and I let them run around.
> 
> She had a lot of umms and ahh's in her message on the phone.
> 
> Her texts are longer than they need to be. She is telling me about how she has to be back tomorrow to go into work to catch up on things...
> 
> My answers are short one and two word answers..
> 
> She needs to stop the small talk...


What are you doing with your time while she has the kids?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I spent the whole day working on my racing mower. Pulled the engine, changed the sparkplugs, changed the oil, adjusted the governor...

I thought it would only take 3 hours.. took 6. 

I haven't looked back over my messages.. but I did meet someone that I am chatting with on Match.com

She sent a message to me.. I let the subscription go.. but when I saw I got an e-mail I paid for 1 month and got her email.

She live 20 minutes from my house. 38, 3 kids, on her way to getting divorced just like me and has a great job.

I have just talked by e-mail. I'm very nervous. My counsellor said I should at least meet her. I don't have to date but it would be nice to have a lady friend to talk to.

her kids were at their dads this weekend.. and I was gonna ask her for coffee but I don't know if I'm ready yet.

This sucks


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I spent the whole day working on my racing mower. Pulled the engine, changed the sparkplugs, changed the oil, adjusted the governor...
> 
> I thought it would only take 3 hours.. took 6.
> 
> I haven't looked back over my messages.. but I did meet someone that I am chatting with on Match.com
> 
> She sent a message to me.. I let the subscription go.. but when I saw I got an e-mail I paid for 1 month and got her email.
> 
> She live 20 minutes from my house. 38, 3 kids, on her way to getting divorced just like me and has a great job.
> 
> I have just talked by e-mail. I'm very nervous. My counsellor said I should at least meet her. I don't have to date but it would be nice to have a lady friend to talk to.
> 
> her kids were at their dads this weekend.. and I was gonna ask her for coffee but I don't know if I'm ready yet.
> 
> This sucks


It sucks now. But you do need to move on.

And you know why? A little coffee with a woman going through the same thing as you is ok.

It cannot hurt and you could use the adult time J.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not ashamed to say I am scared.

I keep thinking... but what if I begin a nice relationship with this woman and then Lisa wants to come home.

My counselor is trying to pound into my head that she isn't coming home but I just can believe it.

If I can even remotely think like that I shouldn't date anyone.

I'm scared to ask her that .. I would love to get to know you but I don't know if I can date yet. 

She wouldn't be on a dating site if she wasn't looking to date.

I just was curious about the e-mail. 

I am feeling a million things today.

Deep inside I keep thinking that I need to put 100% of my time into looking for a job and trying to find a better life for my girls and everytime I think about dating I get terrible guilty feeling inside.

My counselor says I have been putting everyone else first and not Jason first. I tend to agree.. but just can't get it through my thick skull.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm not ashamed to say I am scared.
> 
> I keep thinking... but what if I begin a nice relationship with this woman and then Lisa wants to come home.
> 
> My counselor is trying to pound into my head that she isn't coming home but I just can believe it.
> 
> If I can even remotely think like that I shouldn't date anyone.
> 
> I'm scared to ask her that .. I would love to get to know you but I don't know if I can date yet.
> 
> She wouldn't be on a dating site if she wasn't looking to date.
> 
> I just was curious about the e-mail.
> 
> I am feeling a million things today.
> 
> Deep inside I keep thinking that I need to put 100% of my time into looking for a job and trying to find a better life for my girls and everytime I think about dating I get terrible guilty feeling inside.
> 
> My counselor says I have been putting everyone else first and not Jason first. I tend to agree.. but just can't get it through my thick skull.


Jason, I am going to have to give you a good talking to here!!!!

Will Lisa ever return? Well nothing is impossible, but you have to admit you have given it a good try. And if she does come back, you can make some decisions then. Can't leave your life on hold forever.

You are lonely. You need a friend. And you need to start healing. Not going to do that while you sit around moping.

Just say that to this other woman, and others you might be interested in. "I'm going through divorce. I am not ready for another serious relationship but I need to start moving on and meeting other women." 

You say this other woman will want more than you want because she is on a dating site. Does that mean that, since you are also on the same site, you want more than you want? Of course not.

If the right person comes along, it will click. If it doesn't click, it wasn't right. 

Bottom line, it's just coffee, or maybe a dinner date....you know this great little pizzeria, right? 

I expect you to report back to us when you have locked in to meet her for coffee.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Your right.. I should at least meet her.


----------



## happyman64

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Your right.. I should at least meet her.


You owe it to yourself.

Who knows you guys might have a lot in common.

Kids & tractors...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I talked to her about it this morning. I said that I am a little nervous and scared. She said she was thinking about coffee too. The next message said nothing about it. I think we are both just gonna wait until we are comfortable with it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

texts with Lisa:

J: When will I receive my child support payments

L: I put half in the joint savings account yesterday

J: When will you be paying your half of the credit line

L: When is the payment due?

J: You have access to that

L:I will make sure that I put half the payment in the account when the payment is due

J: Plus your half of the life insurance

L: Well then don't complain when I start taking my half of business profits

J: You have a job. There are no profits as I have had to pay your share for too long

L: Then take my name off the restaurant..I shouldn't have to pay taxes on something I'm not getting anything from

J:I am not assuming your debt

L: You helped create a big part of that debt so don't blame me for all of it. I will do my best to deal with some of it so if that means occasionally taking some money from a business I am still paying taxes on then that is what it means. You will not bully me because your angry that I don't love you anymore

J: I just want you to pay your share. I will not allow you to take advantage of me like your normally do

L: I'm not trying to I'm trying to make sure I'm taking care of things too

J: I have done an amazing job of raising these girls with little or no help from you over the past nine months. You will not guilt me by using statements like "because I don't love you anymore" I will not be a victim in this. I am a strong parent that stepped up and ran a house and business without any help from you. I am just reminding you of your obligations as a parent. I will not let you label me as a bully. I am being a responsible parent by asking that you pay your share.

_____________________________________________________


I think I handled it well...

I am done talking to her.. and she obviously answered the big question about "us" in this series of texts.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm thinking my counsellor is getting through to me.

I couldn't think of any other way of dealing with this. 

Did you guys see what I saw in her comments? I have been taken advantage by her for too long and I think with her response she might have acknowledged that she has done it.

I felt strong and empowered


----------



## Wazza

I think she has answered the big question repeatedly for a long time now. You just don't want to hear it.

I think you should go over your financial records, sit down together with a financial mediator and agree a settlement. That settlement should identify what you owe each other, and should take her name off the pizzeria. Near in mind tha if her mean buying out her share. You need financial advice on that.

Don't use a continuing business relationship as an excuse to continue contact. It could make things far worse. Right now your split is amicable. Hate for it to get acrimonious.

I don't think she has always been fair, but right now I think maybe she is trying to be. Don't kill the goose that laid then golden egg.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If I take her off the pizzeria then I'm on the hook for over $6000 in debt on my own. I find that unacceptable.

I agree that we need to split the finances. I have been no contact with her for three weeks.. I have just had enough of paying all the bills with no help...that is why she got a text today.

When I sell the pizzeria we will apply the payments from the sale ( we will both have to hold the financing) to use to pay down that debt.

She has got away with not having to pay anything. If she takes money from the business then I will be bankrupt. I barely make enough from the restaurant to even look after myself. 

I pay:

credit line
life insurance
truck payment
mortgage
rent on the pizzeria
all accounts payable on the pizzeria
all bills at the house
all bills at the pizzeria

AND

Feed the children
Clothe the children
Pay all of Sarahs medication.

From her I get $350 a month.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sent her a list with a breakdown of some of the debt she needs to pay half of. 

Now I'm done talking to her.

She needs to pay her bit


----------



## VFW

You don't have to date right now, but you can't be afraid to date. If a horse throws you off, what do you do? You get right back in the saddle to let them know they can't get the best of you. You are in a bad place in life right now and that is a biotch, but you can't let it get the best of you. It is time to cowboy up and take control, this is part of the new you. You don't have to join a gym, but exercise is good to relieve stress and makes for a healthier you. The biking with the kids is a great bonding event with them, but you can't increase your training heart rate in this kind of exercise. You have a great hobby to explore and enjoy. Reading can also make you a more interesting person to others. This is going to take awhile and will be tough, but don't let her control you life any longer.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I talked to her about it this morning. I said that I am a little nervous and scared. She said she was thinking about coffee too. The next message said nothing about it. I think we are both just gonna wait until we are comfortable with it.


R U kidding me.
You need a four by six upside the head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If I take her off the pizzeria then I'm on the hook for over $6000 in debt on my own. I find that unacceptable.
> 
> I agree that we need to split the finances. I have been no contact with her for three weeks.. I have just had enough of paying all the bills with no help...that is why she got a text today.
> 
> When I sell the pizzeria we will apply the payments from the sale ( we will both have to hold the financing) to use to pay down that debt.
> 
> She has got away with not having to pay anything. If she takes money from the business then I will be bankrupt. I barely make enough from the restaurant to even look after myself.
> 
> I pay:
> 
> credit line
> life insurance
> truck payment
> mortgage
> rent on the pizzeria
> all accounts payable on the pizzeria
> all bills at the house
> all bills at the pizzeria
> 
> AND
> 
> Feed the children
> Clothe the children
> Pay all of Sarahs medication.
> 
> From her I get $350 a month.


You need professional advice on the financials.

It is just money. The debts need to be divided equally. You cannot expect her to pay into the business, and not take out of it.

My take would be that you need to separate your finances as fast as you can, and make it legally binding. Right now I genuinely think she is trying to be amicable in the settlement, and you should do it together. Don't try and be partners in a business with a woman you are divorcing. You have heard the saying "Things could be worse!" I guess? Well not sorting this out is a recipe for them to get that way.

I know you think you are right on the money. She thinks she is right no doubt. Work the numbers and see if you can have a fair distribution. 

Divorce is expensive, and you are going to lose money. You must accept that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I wrote it up.. sent it in an e-mail. Of course no response but that is good. I at least have it sent to her and a record of it.

I sent her a text at the same time saying that I sent it too her. her response was "FINE"...LOL

She needs to pay her share and I am not going to be taken advantage of.

I'm not expecting her to pay in the business. I want her to split the debt. When I find a job that will allow me to not withdraw from the business we will see where it ends up.

I WILL NOT take her off the business while there is debt. I assumed most of that debt from her when we partnered in 2012. I did not come into the company when it was debt free.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I wrote it up.. sent it in an e-mail. Of course no response but that is good. I at least have it sent to her and a record of it.
> 
> I sent her a text at the same time saying that I sent it too her. her response was "FINE"...LOL
> 
> She needs to pay her share and I am not going to be taken advantage of.
> 
> I'm not expecting her to pay in the business. I want her to split the debt. When I find a job that will allow me to not withdraw from the business we will see where it ends up.
> 
> I WILL NOT take her off the business while there is debt. I assumed most of that debt from her when we partnered in 2012. I did not come into the company when it was debt free.


Look, I am not a financial guy, but I am going to give you three basic things to consider.

The first is that while she has ownership she has control. Suppose for example she decides to sell the business? Or sign unfavorable contracts? Or use its assets as collateral for a loan?

The second is that debt is just a number. Taking her off the business does not mean that she walks a away debt free. You assess the situation of the business at a point in time, and agree that she is no longer part of it, but she walks away with $xxx, being her share of the assets vs her share of the liabilities. I don't see why $xxx cannot be an amount she pays you. Seek legal advice on this.

The third is, you are an idiot if you don't take impartial advice on this. Sorry to be so blunt. Of course you think you are right. That doesn't mean you are. So you can have an amicable settlement, or you can spend a fortune in legal fees and end up with maybe a worse settlement. You need someone to look at the numbers and give you impartial advice. You need mediation. 

Don't procrastinate on this one Jason. Your kids future depends on you sorting it out.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

True... unfortunately I don't have two pennies to rub together that is why I am looking for a good stable job. Then I will have the funds to do this properly. 

Right now I can't do a darn thing.

You are right about the pizzeria.. BUT.. taking her off means I have to pay income tax in the profits. This was hers for 5 years before I partnered. I am NOT going to be taxed on $20 000 when I can be taxed on $10 000 (one half of the profits). This was hers to begin with . If she wants to buy my have out.. then she can go ahead.


----------



## Wazza

At least do the numbers. Do it from your side. Then pretend you are her and try and do it from hers. At least you understand the true financial position.

What if buying her out were financially in your favour? EG you walk away with a business and a reduced debt?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

When I find a job I will either sell it or liquidate the assets. That won't fully cancel out the debt be dramatically reduce it.

She is free to remove money from the business but knows it would make me unable to pay my bills as it is my only source of income. She has a job that supports her.

She knew in 2011 that she was possibly leaving me yet she still partnered with me. Her mistake.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.... after applying and applying for a job. I got an interview. I hope I can get it then I can work towards selling the pizzeria to the two girls that want it and get it to heck out of my life.

Wish me luck...


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well.... after applying and applying for a job. I got an interview. I hope I can get it then I can work towards selling the pizzeria to the two girls that want it and get it to heck out of my life.
> 
> Wish me luck...


Good luck!


----------



## happyman64

You are due some luck Jason.

Go for it and knock them dead.


----------



## Wazza

Actually, forget luck.

You clearly have brains. Now just persist and you will get through. Everyone gets setbacks. Don't let them defeat you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

wow... 

As per my therapist I met Lisa at her car and gave the children hugs and let them know I was happy to see them.

At that point I told Lisa that I would like to cash in our investments so i can start to pay off my debt. 

Now she is terribly in debt with the government on back taxes. She asked me if I was willing to visit a consolidation loan place and get all of our debts put into one loan.

I told her i don't think I could do anything with her as I am having a hard enough time dealing with starting over. I told her that I don't want to be taken advantage of and I want to think about it.

Here is my reply to her by e-mail once i got home, thought about it, talked to my mom about it..

_*Lisa:

I have questions for you left unanswered:

*You do not wish to be my wife yet you wish for me to enter into a new contract with a bank with you

*By doing so I would still be held liable for your tax debt that was put in this contract. If you were to default on your part of the payment I would be forced to have to cover your part which I feel is unfair.

*How can I learn to start over I'm bound into a financial arrangement with you. People divorcing do not enter into contracts, they break a contract.

*It seems that you think that because I still care for you that I would gladly assist you to make a clean break. That means assisting you in cleaning up your Government Debt. That is taking advantage of me in my current state. I find it disturbing that you would think to use this tactic to better yourself by exploiting me

*You seem to think that you can still manipulate me. You only seem to be nice to me when you need something from me (re: your broken car). You tell me you do not want me yet you call on me for help. If that isn't taking advantage of someone I don't know what is. Now since you are under pressure to pay this bill you turn to the last person you should turn to for help with the assumption that he will help because he still cares for me.

*You always assume that I am trying to guilt you. You assume I am angry. You seem to look deeper than you should into my explanations.

*Since you are independent now, why would you ever need or want help from me. You should be able to look after yourself.

Although this can not happen until I secure a position, I'm feel that at this point that I should have the bank give me a $**** credit line and you get your own credit line and we split the debt for that. I can look after my own debt. You can do what you like with your part of the debt.

We both look after our own Visa bills

When the pizzeria sells the profits from it are split between us.

You can sign off the house when I am able to secure a mortgage. You certainly wouldn't want to be bound to me in that too.

I'm sorry the you are in this financial trouble but I should not enter into anymore arrangements with you that will keep us bound longer than needed. If we did this and went for divorce the mediator would make me pay half of that debt which would include your $***** tax debt. Just for that reason I feel that it would not be in my best interest on my part to not enter into anything that could possibly force me to pay more than my share of the debt.

You have said tonight that this relationship is terminated so why in earth would you want to be bound to me any longer than you have to. I know you will think this is purely in spite because you will not be my wife any longer. It is not that, it is what is fair for me as I go forward.

I don't think a lawyer on this planet would ever want me to get into any sort of financial arrangement with a woman that wants to divorce me.

I will call the ********* and have them start on the paperwork for both of us to sign. If it is ready, I will bring it on a Saturday for you to sign. I have no idea how they will pay us the amount.

This is totally up for discussion but I feel we should continue this by E-mail.

Jason*
_

I think I am right in my assumption that she is trying to take advantage of me.


----------



## GutPunch

Don't send that.

Good Lord man.

Here's your letter.
One word.
No. The rest is drama triangle fodder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

Her debt is hers.

Your debt is yours.

Consolidation debt is a joke and required nothing but a "No" from you.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> wow...
> 
> As per my therapist I met Lisa at her car and gave the children hugs and let them know I was happy to see them.
> 
> At that point I told Lisa that I would like to cash in our investments so i can start to pay off my debt.
> 
> Now she is terribly in debt with the government on back taxes. She asked me if I was willing to visit a consolidation loan place and get all of our debts put into one loan.
> 
> I told her i don't think I could do anything with her as I am having a hard enough time dealing with starting over. I told her that I don't want to be taken advantage of and I want to think about it.
> 
> Here is my reply to her by e-mail once i got home, thought about it, talked to my mom about it..
> 
> _*Lisa:
> 
> I have questions for you left unanswered:
> 
> *You do not wish to be my wife yet you wish for me to enter into a new contract with a bank with you
> 
> *By doing so I would still be held liable for your tax debt that was put in this contract. If you were to default on your part of the payment I would be forced to have to cover your part which I feel is unfair.
> 
> *How can I learn to start over I'm bound into a financial arrangement with you. People divorcing do not enter into contracts, they break a contract.
> 
> *It seems that you think that because I still care for you that I would gladly assist you to make a clean break. That means assisting you in cleaning up your Government Debt. That is taking advantage of me in my current state. I find it disturbing that you would think to use this tactic to better yourself by exploiting me
> 
> *You seem to think that you can still manipulate me. You only seem to be nice to me when you need something from me (re: your broken car). You tell me you do not want me yet you call on me for help. If that isn't taking advantage of someone I don't know what is. Now since you are under pressure to pay this bill you turn to the last person you should turn to for help with the assumption that he will help because he still cares for me.
> 
> *You always assume that I am trying to guilt you. You assume I am angry. You seem to look deeper than you should into my explanations.
> 
> *Since you are independent now, why would you ever need or want help from me. You should be able to look after yourself.
> 
> Although this can not happen until I secure a position, I'm feel that at this point that I should have the bank give me a $**** credit line and you get your own credit line and we split the debt for that. I can look after my own debt. You can do what you like with your part of the debt.
> 
> We both look after our own Visa bills
> 
> When the pizzeria sells the profits from it are split between us.
> 
> You can sign off the house when I am able to secure a mortgage. You certainly wouldn't want to be bound to me in that too.
> 
> I'm sorry the you are in this financial trouble but I should not enter into anymore arrangements with you that will keep us bound longer than needed. If we did this and went for divorce the mediator would make me pay half of that debt which would include your $***** tax debt. Just for that reason I feel that it would not be in my best interest on my part to not enter into anything that could possibly force me to pay more than my share of the debt.
> 
> You have said tonight that this relationship is terminated so why in earth would you want to be bound to me any longer than you have to. I know you will think this is purely in spite because you will not be my wife any longer. It is not that, it is what is fair for me as I go forward.
> 
> I don't think a lawyer on this planet would ever want me to get into any sort of financial arrangement with a woman that wants to divorce me.
> 
> I will call the ********* and have them start on the paperwork for both of us to sign. If it is ready, I will bring it on a Saturday for you to sign. I have no idea how they will pay us the amount.
> 
> This is totally up for discussion but I feel we should continue this by E-mail.
> 
> Jason*
> _
> 
> I think I am right in my assumption that she is trying to take advantage of me.


Jason,

She is now telling you why she's been so anxious to have you back in her life.

One word answer required...

NO

"I'm not ok with that"

Let her own her own debt.

The hell with the b!tch

C'mon man, you have your answers now.

I know they hurt. But, go with them.

No explaining. No nothing.

"I'm not ok with that" is sufficient.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is a "No" ... I just wanted her to know that I don't feel what she is asking of me is right.,

She was really pissed when i told her that I will not be helping her if her car dies or is in need of help. 

She said I was the only one she knows that could help her. I said..I won't be helping anymore.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The only problem is that is she goes bankrupt I will lose the pizzeria cause we are 50% owners and it is my only source of income


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The only problem is that is she goes bankrupt I will lose the pizzeria cause we are 50% owners and it is my only source of income


Okay. Then get in joint debt with her so she free up space to continue racking up debt. She knows you'll always be there to bail her out, while she sleeps with other men.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The only problem is that is she goes bankrupt I will lose the pizzeria cause we are 50% owners and it is my only source of income


Sell it now.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It is a "No" ... I just wanted her to know that I don't feel what she is asking of me is right.,
> 
> *She was really pissed when i told her that I will not be helping her if her car dies or is in need of help.
> *
> She said I was the only one she knows that could help her. I said..I won't be helping anymore.


Why even bother saying that? You're digging your own grave of hardships by stirring the pot with petty things.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have made a great plan to get out of debt, and move into a nicer house once I found a good job. 

I fixed the car tonight so all I have to do is sell the truck and cancel out that loan..

Then I will start splitting up the debt. I am so used to living broke that when i get a good job i should have all of my debt cleaned up pretty quickly.

I'm not straying from my plan. She is trying to derail me. I can't let that happen.

I want a better life for my girls and I refuse to live in this funk.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have made a great plan to get out of debt, and move into a nicer house once I found a good job.
> 
> I fixed the car tonight so all I have to do is sell the truck and cancel out that loan..
> 
> Then I will start splitting up the debt. I am so used to living broke that when i get a good job i should have all of my debt cleaned up pretty quickly.
> 
> I'm not straying from my plan. She is trying to derail me. I can't let that happen.
> 
> I want a better life for my girls and I refuse to live in this funk.


Jason,

She did you a favor.

The hell with the b!tch.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I can't sell the pizzeria... it is my job.

The reason i told her about not helping is the fact that she needs to get it through her thick skull that if she wants to be independent then start looking after herself instead of leaning on me.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I can't sell the pizzeria... it is my job.
> 
> The reason i told her about not helping is the fact that she needs to get it through her thick skull that if she wants to be independent then start looking after herself instead of leaning on me.


Thought you had another job.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sure hope so. I find out on May 22.

Then it is on the market.. and I'm taking a huge hit just to get rid of it so I have one last thing tying me to her. Basically selling it for $20 000 less than I paid just to get it gone...


----------



## 06Daddio08

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I can't sell the pizzeria... it is my job.
> 
> *The reason i told her about not helping is the fact that she needs to get it through her thick skull* that if she wants to be independent then start looking after herself instead of leaning on me.


You tell her this by not saying a damn thing. Except for "No".


----------



## Wazza

If you have to hang onto the pizzeria, what does it take to buy her out? Gives her a cash injection and removes her ability to wipe you out.

You can soften the "no" to her if you like. "Sorry Lisa, we are divorced so we need to separate our finances" is gentler. I would soften it. You want an amicable divorce if possible. But no discussion, and for goodness sake no justifying your decisions. They are now none of her business.

As for bankruptcy, isn't she choosing to work part time as a lifestyle choice? Well, good luck to her. Wish I could work part time and pay the bills.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I said this a few pages ago.

When I became a partner in the business it had debt. 

If I were to buy her out I would be assuming that part of her debt and she walks away not being held accountable to that debt. I would assume almost $6000 in debt.

ALSO.. I am only taxed 50% of the total profit of the business. If I buy her out I would assume 100% of the tax burden of the business. 

Why would I want to be taxed at 100% when I can be taxed at 50% and why would I want to take on $6000 of debt when I only have to take on $3000.


----------



## Conrad

The benefit would be having her completely out of your hair.

Much easier to be strong and forceful when you don't owe her anything.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just got an email from my therapist. He mirrored everything you guys have said. 

Back to NC.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I said this a few pages ago.
> 
> When I became a partner in the business it had debt.
> 
> If I were to buy her out I would be assuming that part of her debt and she walks away not being held accountable to that debt. I would assume almost $6000 in debt.
> 
> ALSO.. I am only taxed 50% of the total profit of the business. If I buy her out I would assume 100% of the tax burden of the business.
> 
> Why would I want to be taxed at 100% when I can be taxed at 50% and why would I want to take on $6000 of debt when I only have to take on $3000.


You did say it a few pages ago. I disagreed with it then, and that was before the prospect of her bankruptcy was in the picture. What have you got if she goes under?

I commented that it is possible to sort out the debt fairly. She has her bit, you have yours. I am not saying you assume her debt. I am saying split it. The debt is a factor in determining the buy out price.

As for tax...well if the business makes a profit, and she is liable for 50% of the tax, I would assume she can also take 50% of the profit. Are you better off to keep 100% of the profit and pay 100% of the tax, or keep 50% of the profit and pay 50% of the tax?


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The only problem is that is she goes bankrupt I will lose the pizzeria cause we are 50% owners and it is my only source of income


Just reminding you of what will happen if you stay partners and she goes bankrupt. Trust this guy I am quoting, he knows your situation well


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

this sucks


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> this sucks


Deal with it.

Sorry.....not being unsympathetic, but you have some stuff that you need to sort quickly. Leave it, procrastinate, and some options might become closed to you.

I really think you need professional help, quickly, to sort this out. Negotiate the best deal you can under the circumstances, and don't waste a second worrying about sunk cost. Just work the problem to give you the best outcome in future.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> this sucks


It only sucks because you continue to kick stones while standing in a puddle without the proper footwear on.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lisa is getting her own apartment. I suppose I always thought that because she was renting a room there always was a chance.. 

I hurt tonight. I can get my head around it. I feel like crap. I want to cry, this sucks.

I know it was over months ago... and you all know that I held out hope so something to sway her. Maybe if I got a better job, maybe if i dressed different, maybe if she saw how good of a dad I am she would want to be a family again.

I am truly just as sad as the day she left.

Today I was starting to get our investments split up and let her know the amounts. She wants a few things from the house since she will have nothing when she gets and apartment. A dresser a TV and a Futon is all she wants.

Guy and gals... I'm a mess. In two days I am having coffee with a woman that I have been talking to on Match. I feel guilty, I feel that it is unfair to her to have to sit with a man that still loves his stbxw.


----------



## jh52

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Lisa is getting her own apartment. I suppose I always thought that because she was renting a room there always was a chance..
> 
> I hurt tonight. I can get my head around it. I feel like crap. I want to cry, this sucks.
> 
> I know it was over months ago... and you all know that I held out hope so something to sway her. Maybe if I got a better job, maybe if i dressed different, maybe if she saw how good of a dad I am she would want to be a family again.
> 
> I am truly just as sad as the day she left.
> 
> Today I was starting to get our investments split up and let her know the amounts. She wants a few things from the house since she will have nothing when she gets and apartment. A dresser a TV and a Futon is all she wants.
> 
> Guy and gals... I'm a mess. In two days I am having coffee with a woman that I have been talking to on Match. I feel guilty, I feel that it is unfair to her to have to sit with a man that still loves his stbxw.


Then why meet her? You are no where ready IMO!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I need to get out of my funk. Maybe some time with another lady will help me realize that Lisa isn't everything I thought she was.

I can't keep hiding in my house and pretend that my life will go back to the way it was... it never will be. I am getting divorced and I need to realize that. 

I am 40, not dead. Right now I'm acting dead.


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I need to get out of my funk. Maybe some time with another lady will help me realize that Lisa isn't everything I thought she was.
> 
> I can't keep hiding in my house and pretend that my life will go back to the way it was... it never will be. I am getting divorced and I need to realize that.
> 
> I am 40, not dead. Right now I'm acting dead.


And who has the power to change that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know... me.. 

Someone please tell me why I can't just get over this and go on..

Someone?


----------



## GutPunch

You get your self worth thru others.

You are a severe codependent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I asked my therapist if I was co-dependent and he said not one bit.

He says my lack of self esteem seems to trump my other emotions.


----------



## happyman64

Jason

Go out for coffee just to be social with that woman. Go with no expectations.

And don't you dare talk about Lisa.

Everytime you say her name you should spell it like this "Loser".

You mentioned a long time ago how she messed up your marriage with your brother I believe.

Now she did it again by walking out on you and your girls.

There is nothing behind you Jason. So stop looking there. Stop focusing on her and focus on you.

It is time to move on my friend.

HM64

PS

*And the only thing stopping you is you!*


----------



## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I asked my therapist if I was co-dependent and he said not one bit.
> 
> He says my lack of self esteem seems to trump my other emotions.


He be wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Jason, the labels don't matter.

Noone is asking you to marry Ms Coffee-Drinker-From-Match. Right now you could use a friend, and you need to get out of your shell and stop moping. It's just coffee.

It's not wrong to mourn Lisa, it's really normal. But you have to move on. She isn't coming back. You have done everything. You have been amazing in your commitment. But she isn't coming back.

I am sorry that your heart is broken. But force yourself to keep going, for your sake and the girls. Focus on small steps. Enough of them will take you a really long way.

You are strong. You feel bad now, but you can do this.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I felt pretty good after a big cry last night.

I'm looking forward to going racing on Saturday and my Coffee tomorrow. 

I need to get back to what my Therapist has said. Look for the happiness everyday and I will see that that pile is bigger than the sad pile.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know... me..
> 
> Someone please tell me why I can't just get over this and go on..
> 
> Someone?


Hello Jason,

Because you're still *emotionally connected to Lisa*, *unlike Lisa*, *she is or has become disconnected to you *some time ago, maybe weeks, months or years ago and is playing on your feelings for her. Only, she didn't have the guts to talk to you about how she really was feeling before she moved out. 

She had plan setup some time ago, while feeding you those lines of a loving wife and mother. *You need to get a grip on this.* Right now, you love Lisa as a *wife and mother*, you can still love Lisa, but as the *mother of your kids*, *your wife is moving on*. Try and *transfer (I can't think of better word here, but you know what I mean.)* your feelings for her to your kids, by that I mean, *every time you look at your kids you see Lisa in them, which is true.* *After all, you BOTH made them!*

Lisa thought you’d you *fail without her once she left you, the kids and the business.* Was she right? *HELL NO! YOU MANNED-UP *and showed her you could do *ALL *those things and more. You tried R, but it failed because Lisa was *STILL *playing on your feelings for her. *YOU MANNED-UP AGAIN!* Now it’s time to put your *energies *into your kids your job, and more importantly that *woman that’s been waiting for you on Match.com* 

FTP.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I can see this being an interesting therapy session this coming Wednesday.

Thank you for the advice.

My therapist says I look for too people to pat my back. I know I am guilty of that but it is really nice to vent here and get feedback from others in the same boat as me. 

Like my friend said, this girl might be a great change in my life and a good healing tool as the rejection I feel is almost too much to bare sometimes.

I'm tired of crying.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Just the thought of her gets my anxiety up. I'm on medication for it but it isn't helping. 

I keep thinking "why couldn't she have just left me alone last December" ...why did she have to come back and make this twice as hard.


----------



## GutPunch

You have absolutely got to change your focus.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Rejection sucks....

I don't wanna do anything.. I want to go in a room and cry. I have been sleeping on my couch for 10 months now. 

I have my room blocked off since she stopped sleeping at the house a month and a half ago.

I feel like throwing out the brand new blankets I got for that room.. or I should let her have them for her apartment since I don't wanna touch them ever again.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Just the thought of her gets my anxiety up. I'm on medication for it but it isn't helping.
> 
> I keep thinking "why couldn't she have just left me alone last December" ...why did she have to come back and make this twice as hard.


You guys never had sex again, did you?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We never did.. the last time was a month before she left.. so last June.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> We never did.. the last time was a month before she left.. so last June.


The couples that make it are "in to" each other more than that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Remember that when she said she wanted to work on it I was not allowed to touch her.


----------



## Conrad

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Remember that when she said she wanted to work on it I was not allowed to touch her.


I'd call that a red flag.


----------



## Democritus

I'm in no place to judge as I'm dealing with my own grief and bouts of tears due to my separation, but you've got to buck up, Sadwithtwolittlegirls, even if only in the way that you present yourself. There's no way that your ex is going to be attracted to your depression or low self-esteem, and you're setting yourself up for failure as you try to move forward.

I'd skip the coffee with the new lady and spend some time getting to be happier with yourself, first. Once you are, I bet you'll find that women - your ex or not - will be ready and willing to offer just the kind of treatment that will help to boost you even higher.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Sad, you need to find a way to change your focus. 

I don't think your in love with her, or even the illusion you had anymore. It sounds more like fear based attachment now.

Your scared of letting go. Of moving on, of letting your kids down, of her suddenly becoming the woman you want her to be.

You have to let yourself let go. If you were off with a different woman every opportunity, you wouldn't have anything to be guilty about.

Stop punishing yourself and start living again.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Since I have started therapy I have been only showing my weakness online with you guys.

All my e-mail are just about the girls and about splitting our investment. 

She did e-mail about getting stuff from the house and my response was that we will deal with that when she finds an apartment.

Last week when she asked to consolidate our debts into one payment I told her NO.

She responded this week that she will take care of her own debt. (what a relief).

She said that she thinks my therapist is doing a great job and she sees that I seem to be doing better. Little does she know that I am dying inside but at least she isn't seeing that.


----------



## Conrad

Northern Monkey said:


> Sad, you need to find a way to change your focus.
> 
> I don't think your in love with her, or even the illusion you had anymore. It sounds more like fear based attachment now.
> 
> Your scared of letting go. Of moving on, of letting your kids down, of her suddenly becoming the woman you want her to be.
> 
> You have to let yourself let go. If you were off with a different woman every opportunity, you wouldn't have anything to be guilty about.
> 
> Stop punishing yourself and start living again.


Sounds like the voice of experience.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I will say when I saw her last week it wasn't the same as it was when we were together. She didn't seem like or feel like the person I was married to for 14 years. 

Then again I'm not the same person. It has been 10 months and I have been a full time dad and doing a ton more than what I did before she left.

Maybe it's the longing for the past, maybe it's because she looked so beautiful...


----------



## GutPunch

Have you read the book Codependent No More by Shirley Glass?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Not yet... 

Now I feel like I'm starting from scratch in my therapy. I was good up until she said she wanted to get her own apartment and using words like " For the meantime"


----------



## GutPunch

Read the book.

You must start working on yourself.

Go have coffee, she might like your sad a$$.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

maybe....


----------



## GutPunch

Have you read MMSLP or NMMNG?

If the answer is no, All I can say is you and 
only you are in charge of your future.

I know you are a good Father but I guarantee you could be 
a better one when you are happy. Do it for them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... it didn't work out with the girl I met yesterday. She said I'm not a match.

I saw Lisa tonight when she dropped the kids off. I was in the pizzeria. She looked at me, then looked down and left.

I thought I was going to throw up.. I'm still sick to my stomach


----------



## Democritus

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... it didn't work out with the girl I met yesterday. She said I'm not a match.
> 
> I saw Lisa tonight when she dropped the kids off. I was in the pizzeria. She looked at me, then looked down and left.
> 
> I thought I was going to throw up.. I'm still sick to my stomach


One thing I'm learning in my situation is that you've simply got to choke down those feelings in the moment, and then find a way to discard them for good. With kids involved, we'll be seeing these women on a very regular basis, and there's no good having each and every encounter wrapped up with anxiety and sadness.

What I'm finding works for me is sheer logic; she doesn't love me, she doesn't want to be with me, so freaking out inside every time I see her is counterproductive to my own mental health.

Also, I think we've both learned, along with a gazillion other guys in our shoes, that those types of strong feelings, when put on display, do nothing to endear us to the women that we love; if they make you feel crappy and make you look crappy to her, those are two good reasons to buck up a bit on that front. 

Faking real happiness is probably impossible, but putting on an air low-key cheerfulness is definitely doable.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I stood there and said nothing and just nodded when she said goodbye to me and the kids.

My therapist says I need to be civil. That is what I was trying to do. No matter how hard it hurts I need to stand there and take it.

he wants me to tell her to have a good week and put on a show that I am fine and doing awesome. I'm not there yet.

When it came to lady I met yesterday.

Her history is exactly the same as my wife. met her husband young, tried to fix him.. it went on 13 years then she told him she didn't love him anymore. The same thing Lisa did to me. As soon as she told me the story I knew it wasn't gonna work. 

My dad said something to me the other day. Tell me what you think.

He said the best way to get over a breakup is to be successful. Makes sense...


----------



## Democritus

Agreed - the happier we are in our personal lives, the less dependant our happiness will be on the look the ex gives us, or the words she uses, or how long she lingers when exchanging kids, etc.

Easier said than done - I know as well as anyway. But personal success is my goal, also.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I sat here today and tried to make a list of options of what to do next.

Do I ask for the house then do the necessary repairs and sell it. I hate being here.. it's like I feel her presence. I want to be gone from the house but I don't want to put a bunch of money into it until after the divorce.

Do I keep the pizzeria? She wants off the ownership for nothing. do I take that and sell it for profit or keep it as a side business to provide extra income?

What have I always wanted to do? Well I would like to own property. Do I save up and invest? Do I just buy a real nice house for the kids and I instead of investing?

What about me? Am I ready to commit to a lady and with the feeling I have for Lisa.. is it really fair.. or will finding another woman help me to forget about her.

What about the girls? Do I stay here with their friends? Do I move them and start a new life away from the neighbours and town that have know us for 15 year?

How will I do all this on my own... Why do I think I can't do all of this on my own? What makes me think that I can't do it. Why don't I just do it and shut up about it.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... it didn't work out with the girl I met yesterday. She said I'm not a match.
> 
> I saw Lisa tonight when she dropped the kids off. I was in the pizzeria. She looked at me, then looked down and left.
> 
> I thought I was going to throw up.. I'm still sick to my stomach


Jason, stop seeking validation from women. At least it seems like you're hyper focused on what she said or she did or she looked like or fill in the blank.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You are 110% right.


----------



## Thundarr

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> He said the best way to get over a breakup is to be successful. Makes sense...


I suspect being passionate is the real healer. It just happens that success, self worth, pride, etc seems to follow passion.


----------



## Democritus

I agree with Thundarr - no doubt it would help to take on a new girl to thrust your feelings on right now, but it would be a temporary fix and you'd find yourself at her mercy at the risk of going through all of this again in the future.

Better to spend some time with you. I'm thinking that I'll be alone for at least a year, giving me enough time to discover myself and what makes me happy, giving me the best chance at a confident position in my next relationship, whether it's with my wife or someone else.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Sad, 

I’m being Cruel to be kind here Brace yourself……

First, change your bloody username from *Sadwithtwolittlegirls* to *Happywithtwolittlegirls* OR anything else that doesn’t contain negative words. Because every time YOU or ANYONE posts we know you’re sad and hurting, I just don’t want to see it in your username *ANYMORE*. 



Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I stood there and said nothing and just nodded when she said goodbye to me and the kids.
> 
> My therapist says I need to be civil. That is what I was trying to do. No matter how hard it hurts I need to stand there and take it.
> 
> he wants me to tell her to have a good week and put on a show that I am fine and doing awesome. I'm not there yet.


*NO!* You should have smiled and said: *

Hi Lisa, Thanks for dropping the kids off. <Pause a few seconds> Have good week, Goodbye!*

She’ll wonder why you’re smiling. Let her wonder forever…. Get it! She’s looking for another reason for you to fail again. The last time you MANNED-UP twice, DO IT AGAIN! But this time, DO IT for YOU and the KIDS. She’s NO LONGER your PROBLEM. SO SOD HER! 



> When it came to lady I met yesterday. Her history is exactly the same as my wife. met her husband young, tried to fix him.. it went on 13 years then she told him she didn't love him anymore. The same thing Lisa did to me. As soon as she told me the story I knew it wasn't gonna work.


*Ouch!* One down, next one please! 



> My dad said something to me the other day. Tell me what you think. He said the best way to get over a breakup is to be successful. Makes sense...


Some dad’s know just the right things to say.

Regards,

FTP


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know if I can change the username.

Yesterday I have been on my own for 10 months. I don't count the time that Lisa was here on weekends cause I maybe got a hug for a week of that time and only a few kisses.

I feel lost. Not lost cause Lisa is gone.. lost because I have NO idea what to do with the rest of my life.

I feel empty. I don't even feel like cutting the lawn, even at the racetrack I felt just like going home instead of hopping on a running.

I forced myself out on the track cause I made the trip.. and I need to force myself to do the things that brought me joy.

I wish I could just roll up on the couch and do nothing.

I'm actually glad that lady told me that I wasn't a match. It was a weight off my shoulders.


----------



## Thundarr

It's okay to not know what to do with the rest of your life Jason. Actually it's pretty normal after a split so don't feel like the lone ranger. There are many people going through exactly what you are tonight and tomorrow and next week/month/year. I went through the motions for a long time after my divorce but eventually I met someone and things fell into place on their own.

It's hard; it sucks; it feels like no one understands but many have been where you are now and there is light at the other end.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I don't know if I can change the username.
> 
> *I asked the Mods to change my username to FlyingThePhoenix, which is what I’m now. Check out your User CP, you can contact the Mods requesting and username change from there.*
> 
> Yesterday I have been on my own for 10 months. I don't count the time that Lisa was here on weekends cause I maybe got a hug for a week of that time and only a few kisses.
> 
> I feel lost. Not lost cause Lisa is gone.. lost because I have NO idea what to do with the rest of my life.
> 
> *You want a map to plan out the rest of life? Sorry! No such map exists for anyone; you need take one day at a time. Being alone is not the end of the world, get more hobbies fill your time and meet new people.*
> 
> I feel empty. I don't even feel like cutting the lawn, even at the racetrack I felt just like going home instead of hopping on a running.
> 
> I forced myself out on the track cause I made the trip.. and I need to force myself to do the things that brought me joy.
> I wish I could just roll up on the couch and do nothing.
> 
> I'm actually glad that lady told me that I wasn't a match. It was a weight off my shoulders.
> 
> *There you go, woman that speaks her mind, unlike someone you know.*


I really don't know to say to you Jason, but remember when Lisa first left you? *YOU Manned-up and become that man on a mission taking charge of everything.* Get those feelings back, the more activities you do, the less insecure you’ll feel about the future.

Regards, FTP


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm not so concerned about meeting someone as I am tried to figure out how I would live the rest of my life.. self employed, work for someone, follow my dream to buy property...stuff like that.

I assume I will probably meet someone down the road.. I just wish time moved a little faster right now towards some of my goals.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Flying..

I have no idea how I went from feeling great a few weeks ago to going back to my miserable self.

I haven't eating in 2 days other than two little snacks, on eon the date and a donut from a coffee shop. I have been living on pop and coffee.

I want to cry all the time, I want to not go anywhere, I don't feel like leaving the computer screen.

Who knows...maybe when I hear if I got that job on Tuesday I might feel better. I'm going to be VERY upset if I don't get it. I know that much for sure.

I'm in a funk I just can't get out of and it is really starting to effect my life.

I'm on antidepressants and they don't seem to be working, the anxiety meds just help me sleep at night which is nice but my heart still wants to jump out of my chest during the day.

I'm not finding any joy in any of the things I like to do. Everything just seems so unachievable.

I have stepped back months in a matter of weeks.

I had a great talk with a friend of mine yesterday who is split with his wife. He is having the same issues with not eating and stuff but told me that is don't give a crap what she is doing. 

He is scared just like me of starting over but knows things will get better. I just don't feel that way. I seem to be sliding deeper and deeper into depression that I feel like I can't climb out.

If I keep feeling this way then the grass will be 4 feet tall out side and I will have a grizzly adams beard.

The thing is.. I'm not at all upset about that woman not wanting me. It was a nice talk, she is in a different place in her life and there was certainly no way it would work.

I can't even find the 5 things that my therapist told me to look for that make me happy. 

I'm barely finding 2 a day.

I'm glad I see him on wed and I know I'm gonna cry for most of the session again like the first two.


----------



## karole

You really need to force yourself to exercise - start off by just taking a long walk each day and build up from there. Start lifting weights. Get your brain producing good endorphins. You can do this, you have to for your girls.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. Last night I went to pick up my youngest from her best friends house. They asked me to stay and have a beer. 

As much as it is nice to be out of the house I was surrounded by couples. That sucked.

I ended up playing on my phone at the campfire and just felt awkward . 

I spent yesterday tearing the floor out of my bathroom and getting it ready for a new floor. 

I have set a goal to have this house ready to be sold by winter.

Now the car is on the road I can sell the truck ( that is in a loan with both of us).. and hopefully get another car and sell this one cause I feel her "presence" when I drive it so I need to replace it.

I got to sell this house. We were together 14 years in it and I feel she still walks the halls so it has to go.

I'm thinking about taking her name off the pizzeria and selling it to get another thing that binds us gone. Hopefully I will get something from the sale.. if not I just want it gone just so it is gone.

I have to start removing the things that tie me to her. I'm packing up the rest of her stuff this week and loading the stuff that will fit in her car next Saturday.

I feel like crap today.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Jason,

NOW those are fighting words to me. Start a new life remove everything that Lisa had any connection to, I like that!

Don't let the kids see you depressed, they will see it, they will feel it. 

Keep going..........

Regards FTP


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had a terrible day.. couldn't get her off my mind. 

BUT... when I went to pick up my youngest I got to sit and chat with them and have some birthday cake and stuff.. and I felt better.

I just need to be around people I think to get out of this funk.

The thing is ... my job I'm by myself all day. 

I hope I hear tomorrow about that job. Then I will be busy all day and around people.


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## GutPunch

Have you read any of the TAM books 
I suggested?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm gonna have to order them online.. or maybe a CD version I can listen to when I work. I can't sit and read a book....I can't sit still long enough.


----------



## GutPunch

You can sit and mope with the best of them.
Almost 100 pages of it. 

You need to commit to fixing yourself. 

Read Zillards thread and see a true transformation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If your tired of it then feel free to skip my thread..


----------



## Northern Monkey

The question is, are you tired of it yet?

I think you are unfair on Gut there. If he didn't want to help why would he take the time to post.

I realise your in a position that is unpleasant but there is only one person can drag you out of it. Do you want to?


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## GutPunch

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If your tired of it then feel free to skip my thread..


Done...I will find someone who else who wants to 
heal and get better. Good luck with all your self-loathing.
Hope it works for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

GutPunch said:


> You can sit and mope with the best of them.
> Almost 100 pages of it.
> 
> You need to commit to fixing yourself.
> 
> Read Zillards thread and see a true transformation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If your tired of it then feel free to skip my thread..





GutPunch said:


> Done...I will find someone who else who wants to
> heal and get better. Good luck with all your self-loathing.
> Hope it works for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think I'll skip it too. Sad, you're determined to wallow in your self pity and loneliness. Excuses for why you can't read a little bit is proof.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK... consider this thread done.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Talked to my therapist. He said I am co-dependant. He said you guys were right on the money.

I'm feeling sorry for myself and I need to file before Lisa gets a new apartment as we both figure she is gearing up to take the kids.

I'm talking to a divorce lawyer tomorrow.


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

I don't see her trying to take them after all of this time neglecting them--almost a year? But $ may be the motivator...


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Talked to my therapist. He said I am co-dependant. He said you guys were right on the money.
> 
> I'm feeling sorry for myself and I need to file before Lisa gets a new apartment as we both figure she is gearing up to take the kids.
> 
> I'm talking to a divorce lawyer tomorrow.


Jason (SAD),

Your mind set is stuck in continuous loop, and one of the problems is your bloody username. I already posted you before about changing your username from : Sadwithtwolittlegirls to Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You continue to do this, even some tamers here are posting with Hi sad, or sad.... etc. 

Switch on your brain and put it on 1st gear, at least. Talking to the divorce lawyer, more fighting words...... GREAT! more please.

regards, FTP


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

How do I contact a Moderator to do that for me... I like changing Sad to Dad.

I had a great night out with my friends that I was close to when Lisa and I were together. They said they knew it was gonna happen but kept quiet.

I'm taking my mom up on the offer to get started with the divorce proceeding. The big thing is if she is looking for a one bedroom or two. If it's two I know she is going to take the kids..

I'm going to try and get an injunction to keep the kids with me. I have a month to get this done as she is looking for an apartment to move into for July.

I hope the lawyer can see me either first thing in the morning before work or Friday afternoon after work.

I'm going to bring him my binders from the last time I was in court so that he will have a complete history.

Tonight she took the girls to the movies. My oldest is turning 13 on Thursday so this was her present. for some reason she calls my phone as if i'm going to answer it.

I let it go to voice mail. The first one on where she was to pick up the kids. House or pizzeria. I waited for an hour (just as I went into my therapy session) and just texted back "house".

Tonight I was at my friends and she texts me that she is bringing the kids home..(nice to know) and then calls my phone while she was sitting in the driveway. I let it go to voice mail. This time she sounded pissy. "i am in the driveway and when will you be home" ... then she texted me too... same thing. 

I text back "5 min"

I'm done talking to her. I need serious guidance on what to do know. The only way to heal is to face up that she is gone...the best way is to do the same thing i did in August...serve her.

This time there will be a lawyer on the documents. 

It is funny... my good friend said the same thing to me as my therapist said. Lisa knows exactly how to get me to do the what she wants. A little smile here, a little talk there is all part of the game. In the end Jason is the only one to make Jason happy.

I got my a$$ handed to me from my Therapist. I used two of the three power words during our session and he said he will not allow that. I used..."Let" and "Allow". He also said he will not let me change the subject or steer away from the question cause i don't like the answer. He said I am VERY good at manipulating language which is good but not in his office. He wants an answer and he will stop me if I make the smallest move from it.

I want to apologize to all that has been trying to help me. 

I ignored the advice that I knew in my head was true for the dream that it will change. Bruce(therapist) says I walk up to a door and keep walking into it with the hope that the next time I walk into it that there will be a different result. But I keep finding a door that won't and will not open... but I continue to walk into it.

I need to walk away from the door...that is the only way other door will open for me.


----------



## Wazza

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> How do I contact a Moderator to do that for me... I like changing Sad to Dad.
> 
> I had a great night out with my friends that I was close to when Lisa and I were together. They said they knew it was gonna happen but kept quiet.
> 
> I'm taking my mom up on the offer to get started with the divorce proceeding. The big thing is if she is looking for a one bedroom or two. If it's two I know she is going to take the kids..
> 
> I'm going to try and get an injunction to keep the kids with me. I have a month to get this done as she is looking for an apartment to move into for July.
> 
> I hope the lawyer can see me either first thing in the morning before work or Friday afternoon after work.
> 
> I'm going to bring him my binders from the last time I was in court so that he will have a complete history.
> 
> Tonight she took the girls to the movies. My oldest is turning 13 on Thursday so this was her present. for some reason she calls my phone as if i'm going to answer it.
> 
> I let it go to voice mail. The first one on where she was to pick up the kids. House or pizzeria. I waited for an hour (just as I went into my therapy session) and just texted back "house".
> 
> Tonight I was at my friends and she texts me that she is bringing the kids home..(nice to know) and then calls my phone while she was sitting in the driveway. I let it go to voice mail. This time she sounded pissy. "i am in the driveway and when will you be home" ... then she texted me too... same thing.
> 
> I text back "5 min"
> 
> I'm done talking to her. I need serious guidance on what to do know. The only way to heal is to face up that she is gone...the best way is to do the same thing i did in August...serve her.
> 
> This time there will be a lawyer on the documents.
> 
> It is funny... my good friend said the same thing to me as my therapist said. Lisa knows exactly how to get me to do the what she wants. A little smile here, a little talk there is all part of the game. In the end Jason is the only one to make Jason happy.
> 
> I got my a$$ handed to me from my Therapist. I used two of the three power words during our session and he said he will not allow that. I used..."Let" and "Allow". He also said he will not let me change the subject or steer away from the question cause i don't like the answer. He said I am VERY good at manipulating language which is good but not in his office. He wants an answer and he will stop me if I make the smallest move from it.
> 
> I want to apologize to all that has been trying to help me.
> 
> I ignored the advice that I knew in my head was true for the dream that it will change. Bruce(therapist) says I walk up to a door and keep walking into it with the hope that the next time I walk into it that there will be a different result. But I keep finding a door that won't and will not open... but I continue to walk into it.
> 
> I need to walk away from the door...that is the only way other door will open for me.


I messages a mod for you about the name change. Used the "report post" icon, then only read the text that it should only be used for violations of forum rules after I hit send. So Mods if you are reading this, sorry. Jason if I get banned, just remember who took a bullet for you!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

omg.. i hope that doesn't happen


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## Laba

This is a great Quote from someone very smart, helps me in the moments when I am stuck, hope it does help you as well:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is true.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

*DAD *you're no longer *SAD*, we have you been? we missed you. Now shall we get on with it, and show Lisa what she is going to miss from now on....hahaha (Evil laugh) :lol:

Well done - Jason.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have to do this for me to heal. I was healing the last time I was in court. I know I will heal again this time too.

I have been hanging out with my friends again. It has been nice and they said they missed which was good to hear.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Woohoo for the name change!

Now live it!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The issue I have is all my friends work with Lisa. I told them all.. I don't need to know anything about her..what she is doing, who she is dating, blah blah blah. I told them to just let me heal then I can deal with all the other crap that is going to come with Lisa and I's divorce.

One step at a time


----------



## zappy882000.

Jason - you name is so cool. I remeber when I came to this country 10 years ago and used to work in University, my suervisor's name was Jason.

He was so cool and you seem pretty cool too. Everything will fall in place for you, just be a little patient.

Zappy


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. Yesterday was visitation day. 

After I dropped the kids off I thought.. what the heck.. I'm going shopping. So I bought a bunch of new clothes, a new hat and took my time doing it.

Then i went to the home depot and got flooring and finished the bathroom floor. 

When i picked the kids up, Lisa told me all about how she is taking over a lease on an apartment and that she didn't need as much stuff from the house. She is getting a two bedroom and said she would need something for the kids to sleep on if the kids ever stay overnight. I just stood there, nodded and told her to have a good week and left.

She did not look healthy. Her skin is getting blotchy and she said a lot of umms and awws .. she really looked nervous.

I didn't car, I was dressed in my new clothes and felt pretty good about myself.

Then the kids and I spent the evening at my good friends house until around midnight.

All around a good day.

I have been texting with a lady I met on POF but I have told myself to not be in a hurry. This is a Journey not a Race.


----------



## Wazza

It is indeed a journey. Starts with a footstep. Glad you are taking them. It will be bette


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It has probably been 8 months since I bought clothes for myself.. so i thought I could use a "me" day


----------



## happyman64

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It has probably been 8 months since I bought clothes for myself.. so i thought I could use a "me" day


Good for you!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Holy Crap. Lisa wanted to change her visitation day so that she could move into her new apartment. She also wanted some furniture that she said is hers. 

I told her that whatever she bought through the marriage is ours. 

I told her no she does not get it, she gets the dresser she asked for a few weeks ago and a few things from the kitchen. She is not emptying out my house.

A few years ago she got me to sell my car, car trailer, motorhome, Mower Racer and other things. Now she wants me to start giving up more and more things.

She told me I'm being an ass.

I wrote back :
In a marriage there is no "me". Your just pissed when you don't get your own way. Typical Lisa. You bought the hutch for the family.

Go back and count all the things I sold for the family and have very little because of you and you have the nerve to be pissy over a hutch.

Lisa:

Whatever..you don't want to part with it I'll deal with it..I can get mad in the moment if I want I'll buy another one if I have to

Me:

I'm not mad..Just telling you the truth. You want me to keep having me give up my things just like before..I have to put my foot down at some point and stop being taken advantage by you.


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

Still talking too much.

Lisa - "I want blah, blah, blah"

Jason - "I'm not ok with that"


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. I'm terrible for that.

At least I'm learning to say no.

I'm temped to leave the stuff she wants behind the pizzeria on Saturday and she can figure out how to bring it home....


----------



## happyman64

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I know.. I'm terrible for that.
> 
> At least I'm learning to say no.
> 
> I'm temped to leave the stuff she wants behind the pizzeria on Saturday and she can figure out how to bring it home....


Why bother. The quicker she is out of your life the sooner you can move on. 

Let her go JAson and go be happy with your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I still have to figure out how to get the furniture she wants.I don't want her at the house.

I think she needs to here from me that I will not be taken advantage of.

I told the children that if she shows up at the house to pick up anything while I'm at work to call and I will come home and deal with it.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I still have to figure out how to get the furniture she wants.I don't want her at the house.
> 
> I think she needs to here from me that I will not be taken advantage of.
> 
> I told the children that if she shows up at the house to pick up anything while I'm at work to call and I will come home and deal with it.


Jason,

I don't recall this in any posts, but have you changed the keys to the house? Lisa may come by anyway and take what she wants no matter how much you protest. Make a list of things she MIGHT want and then get it valued and split the difference down the middle. If she want's it, she can pay half of it's value to you in cash! She can than take the item. You don't help her move it.

Like the other posts have said, there's too much talking to Lisa, ignore her. By all means read everything she sends you but don't answer anything to do with you and the house ONLY the kids.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

On Saturday when we switched the kids she told me all about her new apartment and that she was taking over for a friend who is moving in with her mom to take care of her cause she has cancer.

I just stood there... said nothing. 

Lisa originally wanted a futon, dresser and TV. I agreed to that cause I don't use them anyways.

Today she started asking for more. That is when I said no.

The issue is that I work until 7 at night and the kids are there by themselves between 4 and 7. She would be able to get in the house cause they are there.

That is why I told the kids to contact me.

She is not taking things from the house without a court order or I say yes


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> On Saturday when we switched the kids she told me all about her new apartment and that she was taking over for a friend who is moving in with her mom to take care of her cause she has cancer.
> 
> I just stood there... said nothing.
> 
> Lisa originally wanted a futon, dresser and TV. I agreed to that cause I don't use them anyways.
> 
> Today she started asking for more. That is when I said no.
> 
> The issue is that I work until 7 at night and the kids are there by themselves between 4 and 7. She would be able to get in the house cause they are there.
> 
> That is why I told the kids to contact me.
> 
> She is not taking things from the house without a court order or I say yes


Okay, your good at doing this, take photos and document everything in the house that she MIGHT WANT. Your right the kids will let her in no matter what, she's their mother after all. You need to sit down with the kids and explain to them, if mum comes to the house when you’re not there one of them MUST call you straight away. If she does turn up, send Lisa a text message asking why she is at the house; remember text messages are a record of yours and her activity.

Talk to your lawyer about this straight away, it may be nothing but, sort it out now and protect yourself if she does take this road.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It sucks that I don't see him until June 5..

I did sit down with my oldest and told her that. She said ok.

We also have talked about who they would like to live with.

She said she wanted to stay with me for a few reasons:
*All her friends are here
*I did everything for them
*She is happy that she doesn't have to deal with how grumpy her mom is in the morning
*She is more comfortable with me.

Great idea about the pictures. I will go around the house tonight and do that.

I suppose leaving her stuff in the parking lot behind the pizzeria is not a good idea and telling her to pick up her stuff.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It sucks that I don't see him until June 5..
> 
> I did sit down with my oldest and told her that. She said ok.
> 
> We also have talked about who they would like to live with.
> 
> She said she wanted to stay with me for a few reasons:
> *All her friends are here
> *I did everything for them
> *She is happy that she doesn't have to deal with how grumpy her mom is in the morning
> *She is more comfortable with me.
> 
> Great idea about the pictures. I will go around the house tonight and do that.
> 
> I suppose leaving her stuff in the parking lot behind the pizzeria is not a good idea and telling her to pick up her stuff.


Jason,

In this neck of the woods, temporary storage costs $1.00 for the first month.

I've taken advantage of that deal in the past - for these same purposes.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Do you guys I'm being a bitter a$$hole for not changing her visitation day? 
I keep thinking back to how my therapist says I try to control her and by not budging even a bit I'm still trying to control her.

I'm not budging on the furniture and I took pictures of the item she wanted.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Do you guys I'm being a bitter a$$hole for not changing her visitation day?
> I keep thinking back to how my therapist says I try to control her and by not budging even a bit I'm still trying to control her.
> 
> I'm not budging on the furniture and I took pictures of the item she wanted.


What are you ok with?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I can't see why she can't do it on the day she doesn't have the children. Why move a day that the kids have been used to since September of last year.

That was my thought. To me it makes me feel like the apartment is more important than her children when she wants to change days.

I think her life should go around her visitation day not the other way around.

I'm also tired of her just feeding them fast food when she has them.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I can't see why she can't do it on the day she doesn't have the children. Why move a day that the kids have been used to since September of last year.
> 
> That was my thought. To me it makes me feel like the apartment is more important than her children when she wants to change days.
> 
> I think her life should go around her visitation day not the other way around.
> 
> I'm also tired of her just feeding them fast food when she has them.


Watch what she does, not what she says.

They're a bother to her, not a joy.

Her interest in not getting divorced was primarily financial.

Now that you know her, do what you have to do.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My lawyer appointment is June 5th.

I know what has to be done.

BTW. I'm talking to a nice girl right now. I hope to meet her soon. I had in my head a certain look I would like. 

Shorter than me : Check
Preferably glasses : Check
Pretty in my eyes : Check
Children and has them at home at least some of the time :Check
Job : Check
Nice Teeth : Check
Nice Smile : Check

Unfortunately I think I am looking for a look like Lisa without the personality. I find Lisa REALLY pretty so I everyone I look at has to fit into a certain mold. 

I did meet this lady I'm talking to online but as we talk we have a ton in common. She has a lot of goals and ambitions like me. The kids are very close in age to mine.

The one thing I wish that would stop is that rolling feeling in my stomach when Lisa sends a message. I dread to read it cause she seems to always wants to change


----------



## happyman64

Jason

Let me make it easier for you.

Things you should look for in a woman:

1. Anything that does not remind you of your ex.
2. Honesty
3. Loyalty
4. Love
5. Respect

The order does not matter. And as far as I am aware of your STBXW does not have items 2-5 in her inventory.

If a woman has those characteristics then the looks come 2nd. In my mind

Focus on you Jason.

HM


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I do agree completely with your list.. thank you..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

But first you need something to bring you together before you can even find out about honesty etc. That would have to be a physical attraction. I do agree with you list though after the first few interactions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> But first you need something to bring you together before you can even find out about honesty etc. That would have to be a physical attraction. I do agree with you list though after the first few interactions
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As Phil says on Duck Dynasty:

"Watch out for those that wear lots of makeup. Chances are they're trying to conceal something.... they're probably mean"


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

My therapist dies like my idea of a list as I will bypass a possible excellent person because they don't meet my criteria.. he made a good point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I assure you Jason if you find the woman for the right reasons with the right qualities in your eyes she will look like Miss Canada!

I was going to say Miss America but I know where you live with that tractor of yours....


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I had a really good session with my counselor today. 

The problem I'm having is giving a reason for everything I do.

Example. 

To Lisa : NO

Jason's default response : No....because

He is also whipping me into shape because the lawyer I got does not like to have his time wasted so I need to learn to shut up.

I have my good friend Sharon that is gonna help me with that. If I talk too much or sway from answering a question directly she is going to be VERY blunt to me.

Bruce (counselor) and I decide the best way to give her the furniture is to leave it on the lawn of her old house on Sunday and she can do what she wants with it. Of course I would let her know that is what I'm doing.

bruce told me to make a list of how much Lisa has cost me in the last year. She has spent nothing other than 2 months of child support of the last 10 months.

I have lost money on having staff come in to cover for me while in court, pay for her to be served, drove 30 minutes while she drove 5 minutes for the kid swap, the missing child support while we were in court the first time and during the time she came on weekends but was not trying to work on things.

He told me to make a list of if Lisa stayed and never left at all..and the cost since she left.

I think I'm scared to see how much this crap has cost me.

He said I need to stop being a nice guy and realize that court is to get what you are entitled to and I need to remember that.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sarah (my oldest) said something interesting to me last night.

I texted her to ask what she wanted for supper. She said Spinach. I said I didn't have any and the store is closed so I would buy some tomorrow.

I got home and picked the kids up and went to my close friends house so we could hang out and the kids could play.

His wife made rice.. sarah wouldn't eat any. I asked why? She said she wanted spinach. ...

My friend Sharon asked how she likes her spinach. She said.. like my mom used makes it...but she doesn't care now, tells us she has no money but feed us McDonalds. 

It was 9:30pm and we were leaving.. I told her .. honey it is a little late for dad to cook tonight. It's past everyones bedtime.

Sharon took me aside as the kids went to the car.

She said that Sarah is missing her mom but is upset that her mom doesn't do or doesn't care about the things she liked before she left.

She handed me a bag of frozen spinach and said you know what you need to do.

I went home and cooked something fast. Kraft Dinner with Spinach.

Sarah was super happy..ate it all up and went right to bed.

I really need to notice Sarah's hints.


----------



## Democritus

It's exactly those moments that keep me going through all of this - the opportunity to brighten the kids' day via a small but meaningful gesture.

You're a good dad - that counts magnitudes more than being a good husband, or a good ex-husband.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you. I think when I go shopping I going to let Sarah go in the produce isle and let her go.

She was asking for fruit last night too. I have oranges in the fridge but I think I might need things like apples and whatever she thinks she needs.

She is not a big meat eater so I will certainly need more vegetables.

This was the first time she was very direct in what she wanted.

I'm going to leave a note on the fridge I think now.


----------



## Democritus

Food is a big deal for all of us, kids especially - I've also been using it as a path to their hearts and happiness since separating. 

Bacon every morning, two strips each!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I should ask her about bacon..

I should bake some cookie tonight.. nothing better than fresh cookies


----------



## Democritus

I personally haven't made it to baking yet (my one attempt at a cake was a miserable failure), but you're definitely on the right track there!

Taking it a step up, I figure we've got to eventually become even better bakers and cooks then the ex-wives - then the kids will REALLY love us best


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It does suck because I cook for people all day and then when i get home after 7 I don't feel like cooking. I really should make more of an effort.muffin machine that is li

For baking my kids got this Betty Crocker muffin maker that cooks the top and bottom at the same time so it's really hard to screw up. Basically take the oven time on the package and cut it in half and they come out perfect. You need the mini cups to fill with mix.

Betty Crocker Mini Muffin Magic (Muffin Maker) Model BC-1959: None: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## happyman64

Yes. Good job with Sarah. Listening to her is like learning. Keep doing it.

And pickup the phone and thank Sharon.

That is a good friend to have........


----------



## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> It does suck because I cook for people all day and then when i get home after 7 I don't feel like cooking.


Try and learn to separate your professional life from your personal life so you do not subconsciously 'take it out on your kids'. When you finish work, leave work at work and your relationship with your children will become that much better, by default.

Allow them to remind you how fun it was to be a kid at times, doing the simple things with them.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sarah is at a strange time right now. She is becoming a lady, and is getting a little bit of an attitude at times but only about food. From her last bunch of comments she seems to be feeling rejected by her mother and is lashing out a bit on me.

That is ok with me.. tonight in the grocery store she was really at odds on what she wanted. I said that I would let her pick the things she would like for lunches. She wanted premade salad mix but they all had things in she doesn't like. She settled on carrots and ranch dip. I let her decide.

It is tough. she is getting more teeth pulled and repaired this week waiting on the way to braces in a few weeks. She was really pissy that she had to do baseball in gym class and wished she could just sit under a chair with a book.

To be honest.. she is becoming a little Lisa. She has always kinda been like her but I'm really seeing it now. I'm being very patient with her and not saying anything. Other than being nasty in the morning she is sounding and acting just like her mother.

Sometimes I stand and smile at her.. she asks what.. I tell her that she is getting more and more beautiful every day ( I'm really thinking... you are being a little ***** like your mother..which is something that will never come out of my mouth)

Good week .. no crazy feelings, no anxiety, only a tiny bit of tears when I heard a favorite song of Lisa and I.

What I have started to do is play the deep down songs that would make me cry over and over and over at work. I am actually getting numb to them so this might be the thing to do from now on.


----------



## Democritus

I got the impression from your later posts that you had been separated some time now, but is it still fresh? Apologies, there are 100 pages to dig through for information!


----------



## Wazza

Democritus said:


> I got the impression from your later posts that you had been separated some time now, but is it still fresh? Apologies, there are 100 pages to dig through for information!


Separated, reconciled, separated again.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It started last July, she asked for R in Dec, ended in April. No real reconciliation. See the lawyer this week coming up.

I have a date coming up..just waiting for her to respond as when she is free.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well the day I knew was coming happened today.

After we exploded on each other at the kid swap...I texted her that we needed to be more civil around the kids.

She texted back that she is seeing someone.

My therapist said she has been doing this for a long time but I just didn't wanna believe it.

I'm actually not too bad. Maybe a weight off my mind? My guts hurt.. but no tears.

The thing is.. do you guys think it would have been worse if she told me to my face?

I wished her the best and she said that even though I make her angry ( like tonight) she really wishes me all the best.

The last thing I put was Goodbye Lisa.

She said she won't introduce him to the kids until we both discuss it.

I see the lawyer on Wed.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Do not give her anymore than you are legally suppose to. Even then, go for less. She's been seeing this POS for quite a while.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

For sure.

She screamed at me as she went to the car.. you can have the F-ing house and you won't make a dime off it.

So I know I can get her to sign off the house.

I think this has been going on for a while. She didn't wanna have sex with me cause she was sleeping with him.. I guarantee it..

We'll see what the lawyer has to say.

She wanted the dresser in the house so I told her I would drop it off at the house she was moving from. She said can you bring it to my apartment. I said no.. it is going to your last house where your moving from.

I guess she didn't give enough notice and pissed off the girl that gave her a room for a year and the lady is super PISSED..

She said then leave it behind the pizzeria and I will figure out how to get it home.

I said that is fine... 

I don't care how she gets it to her place... just not in my truck.

I am wiping my hands of her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I barely slept last night.. up every hour....

I knew this was coming so I don't know why my body is reacting this way


----------



## happyman64

> She said she won't introduce him to the kids until we both discuss it.


Not to kick you while you are feeling down Jason but this comment tells you how long this has been going on.

It also explains why she left.

Now do yourself a favor.

Make your STBXW your Ex. She is a liar Jason. It should not have taken months for her to be honest with you.....

And protect the girls. They have always been your priority and not hers.

Stay focused.

Get the job you have been looking for.
Get rid of the pizzeria.
Find a good woman.
Be a great Dad.

No more crying over her. She has finally admitted to you, now you know where you stand and frankly you are better off without her.

Go to court, get a custody agreement in place and make her pay her share of support.

Nice guys finish last. Stop being nice.

Finish this mess so you can be happy.

HM64


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

Telling you to your face wouldn't have been an option because she's a coward.

Divorce her now.

What more do you need to know?

Go for full custody.

She doesn't deserve the children.

Make her pay the max in child support.


----------



## Wazza

Jason, thinking of you.

No advice, no suggestions, just letting you know that a stranger in the Internet admires you, is rooting for you, and is sad for your pain but expects you to come through with flying colours.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She seems to have a pattern. Found out that she sends notes to people telling them something she heard from Spirit (she is a spiritualist..tarot cards and crap). One letter made it to HR at her work back in December. It was a letter she wrote to the guy I think she is seeing. His roommate (she is a girl.. but in a happy realationship) turned it in to HR cause it was passed at work. HR almost fired her.

Now she is in $hit with the lady she stayed with. That lady says Lisa owes her for another month of rent. I'm assuming she didn't give notice. I wonder if she left a note and moved out while her roommate was at work? LOL

Nice pattern eh?

WOW.... I certainly will be getting rid of a headache.. she seems to have enough drama and I am trying to minimize drama.

The thing I can't get out of my mind is the two having sex. That is what is keeping me up. I got very little sleep last night.

Any suggestions on how to get rid of that type of thoughts?

I guess everyone at her work hates him and he is a lying weasel... I guess they will make a great couple.

I'm have a great night chatting with this girl Leah.. she is so different then anyone I have chatted with. We have fun conversations and for our first date I think we are gonna play catch in the park.. Isn't that cool.. She is cute as a button too . We are gonna meet this week. Her kids are 1 year off the age of my kids.

I have the entire folder ready to plop on the lawyers desk on Wed. My mom is loaning me money for the retainer.

BTW I have a job interview for a real cool day job costing production items at a growing factory 20 min from here. I'm excited cause I would be working a normal day shift and more time for the girls at night. Money is pretty good. 

Then... after my 3 month probation I will put the pizzeria up for sale.

That should be the time we get back into court. She gets 30 days to respond after I serve her so it depends how long it takes for my lawyer to fill out the paperwork.

I left the dresser behind the pizzeria for her to pick up.. I'm not a delivery service so she can come and get it.

I'm starting my 5 happy things again today.. I spent 2 hours with my close friend Sharon who is pounding into me all the things Bruce is telling me in Therapy. It is helping.

In a few weeks her husband is going to take me flying so I can take an item off my bucket list


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

She's a user.

Nothing you've told us about her indicates otherwise.

Get to 50,000 feet and see it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep.... now she will have to answer to it.. In court.

My power words:

I will not *ALLOW* her to control my life anymore

I will not *PERMIT* her behaviour to effect my emotions

I will not *LET* this bring me down as I have lots to be thankful and grateful about.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Jason,

Like everyone has said, she's been seeing someone else for some time and is playing both ends to get what she wants all the time. It's TIME for YOU to disconnect from this woman once and for all. What did your dad say to you before? Look at your own posts for the answer to that one. Because he's right!!!!!!

1. Sell the business, if you have to buy her share out and take the hit, then do it. The longer you wait the more mind games she'll play with you.

2. Sell the house and look somewhere closer, but NOT to close to Lisa, why? Because that way the both of you can still be parents to your kids _(You know what I mean.....)_

3. Change your clothes to something Lisa has never seen yet. Be confident and shine when you see her during your hand over of the kids. Remember to be nice to her, but using less words.

4. Go out with some of your single women friends and learn to see REAL women again.

etc. etc. etc.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

- I bought new clothes. She did look surprised.

- The is house not salable. It needs the roof finished, the upstairs finished and I don't have enough income or down payment to get another house. I borrowed the money from my dad to finish the roof.

-I can't sell the business until I get a job cause it is my only income. I don't have two pennies to rub together to buy her out.

- I hope to be meeting a REAL woman this week.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

How do I get past the thought of the two of them having sex?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

all I wanna do is throw up today..


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> How do I get past the thought of the two of them having sex?


Good question! You don't! It took me, years and years. But then I was alone no IC or TAM anyone to talk to about what I went through. I learnt the hard way to deal with it day by day and I'm at last in a better place than I have been in many years.

Okay, you have good social network right? Than use them to distract your mind, keep your mind active as much as possible with other things, other than Lisa and the OM. Sign up to Meetup.com and start learning to live again. Lisa did this while she was married to you so she was planning well in advance, clever isn’t she! 

Now it's your turn......

1. Get that Job!
2. Sell that business ASAP!
3. Fix the house.
4. Let your lawyer FROM NOW ON deal with Lisa's Lawyer YOU just get on with your life with the kids.
5. Record any conversations YOU have with LISA, remember it's now 2 against 1, you need to protect yourself here.
5. Add anything else you need to do.

After the above is done and dusted make another list of things to do.

Here's an idea, why not start a journal, not unlike TAM but one for your daily/weekly thoughts. At the end of each week re-examine those entries and you'll see patterns / pictures forming about the REAL YOU. I know it sounds strange but I did it and still do it, you’ll learn a lot about yourself, just like on TAM.

Make sure you now take photos and document everything in the house and get it valued. Remember there's another party involved in this now so you need to be extra careful.

Keep going...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you for the advice.

It is like a dull pain in my stomach. I haven't eaten since she told me last night.

It's like a hole in my stomach. I never even touched another woman in 17 years. 

Now I know she has had three..

Me, My brother, and Him.

I don't know why I think this.. but it is like the ultimate betrayal. 

I packed up the rest of her clothes and put them in a bag. That includes her wedding dress. I will put it in her car at the kids swap next Saturday.

The nice thing is that my friend Mark told me he is going to take me up for a plane ride next weekend. I have never been in any sort of plane.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Bruce has told me since I started with him in April that she had a man. I just wish I got it through my thick head.

All I know is that she better not stick her nose in when I meet someone. I can see it happening cause then she would not have control anymore of me.

Although she is dating..I'm sure even the spouse that walks away will feel something when the left behind spouse starts dating too..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

This is well written until you get to the part that says you can save it.

It is exactly what happened to me and how Lisa acted..

Wow.. this stuff is scripted..

the walk away divorce


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lisa wanted a dresser from the house. I said I would drop it off at her old house.. she said no don't do that ( turns out she didn't give correct notice).

I told her I won't take it to her apartment.

She said leave it at the pizzeria. 

This morning I dumped it in the parking lot at around 8am (I couldn't sleep anyways).

Tonight the girls and I went out and it was still there.

Jason : Your dresser is still at the pizzeria since this morning

Lisa:Yes I know I have no way of getting it. 1. I dont have enough gas and 2`I don`t have access to a truck. its gonna sit there til I can come and get it.

Jason: It's outside

Lisa: well then it`s outside.

I never responded. Do you get the same feeling as me that she was trying to guilt me into bringing it to her house? I think so.

Screw that.

I did put it inside the pizzeria.. it has a big mirror and it is gonna rain a bunch tonight. I'm not a total a$$hole.

I actually felt good to let her squirm.. kinda sick I think but for what I have been through I will take every little jab that I can get.

BTW. The new girl I'm talking to said she would love to meet me one night this week... 

We are going to go play catch in the park for a first date. Is that not cool or what?


----------



## Wazza

Jason, you are not an *******. Don't let this make you one. Putting the dresser inside was a good thing.

My hope is now that you can accept she is gone and find a new balance. If you feel a need to punish her, to me it suggests you are not detaching enough.....which has been your problem for a while. 

You have a lot to offer. I don't expect you will be alone very long unless you choose to be.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep.. she is gone.

She is his problem... but with 17 years, memories don't stop.. they fade away.

I loaded more of her crap in the car tonight. I'm filling the dresser at the pizzeria with it. she can load it up herself.

As I find more.. I'll keep loading it in the dresser.. 

But SHE has to come and get it. I don't give a crap how or when but my hands are not putting it into any vehicle.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well. The binders are ready for the Lawyers on Wed. I have a cheque to pay the retainer fee.

I e-mail Lisa this morning to find her new address just in case something comes to the house. Actually it was so I would have it for my court documents.

I guess that's it....


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Lawyer can't see me til the end of the month now 

For some reason the pain is still there today.... kinda a stinging not a dull pain. I wish it would stop.. I know she is gone and with someone else... but my heart won't let go.

Job interview went well.. here's hoping that I get a second interview. There are three before you get the job.

I'm hoping to meet Leah this week... and I hope she is as nice as she is in texts and messages. I think we are going to talk on the phone tonight.

I guess time is the only thing to fix the pain I feel


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The dresser is taking up too much room in the pizzeria.. is it wrong to give her a deadline to get it out? It is inside a business that she owns half of..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The dresser is taking up too much room in the pizzeria.. is it wrong to give her a deadline to get it out? It is inside a business that she owns half of..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Deadline. Balls up.


----------



## happyman64

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The dresser is taking up too much room in the pizzeria.. is it wrong to give her a deadline to get it out? It is inside a business that she owns half of..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ignore the dresser.

It bothers you because it reminds you of her.

Oh, if you need to throw up do it n the dresser.

She will get the hint.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I was thinking about that.. the issue is she owns half so theoretically she can keep what she wants here. It's like her telling me I can't keep something in the pizzeria..

My original plan was to say.. you have until Friday night to move the dresser or it goes to the dump Saturday morning.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OK.. my mom is going to pay for the braces for my daughter and i am going to pay her back. I figure Lisa is still responsible for half so i wrote her an e-mail.

She said she didn't like when i went into lawyer mode last time with my e-mails. I pull all feeling out and just list the facts.

BUT.. I still have to let her know about the welfare of the children. The judge gave me $hit last time for no contact at all during one month when Lisa never called or asked to see the kids. Somehow I was supposed to make sure she saw her kids. I'm not making the same mistake twice. 

This is the type of e-mail I wrote throughout the last time in court and it is starting again.

------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa:

Sarah and Amie are now Dental Patients of:

xxxxxxxxxx

As of June 5, 2013 Sarah and Amie have both completed their second trip to the dentist. On the advice of Dr. xxxx they both had cavities in their teeth repaired and Amie had a number of her teeth sealed. At the present time Sarah has had two teeth repaired and one tooth extracted. Sarah has been measured for braces and a quote has been created by Dr. xxxxxxx. A copy of this quote listing the issues and prices are included in this correspondence for your records. Sarah will be required to have one or possibly two more teeth extracted in order for the braces to function properly.

Sarah will have one more tooth extracted on June 11, 2013 and both Amie and Sarah are scheduled for cleaning of their teeth for August 8 , 2013.

The balances on the account has been paid in full for all visits.

Your half the cost of the procedures are the following:.

May 15, 2013
Sarah : Filling and Extraction
Cost: $236
Your Portion: $118

June 5, 2013
Sarah : Filling
Amie : Filling
Cost: $208
Your Portion: $104

Total reimbursement cost from you at this time: $222

What is not included in this e-mail is the cost for creating the estimate including the measurement and x-ray work. Dr. xxxx's Office will be forwarding a copy of the receipt for that procedure to myself and at that time a supplemental e-mail will be forwarded to you listing your portion of the cost to be reimbursed to me.

The cost for Sarah's braces are $4400. It is broke down into payments of $220 for 20 months.

Your portion is $110 per month for Sarah's braces for the 20 month period. The first installment of the payment program will be due the day they install the braces.

Note: 
The amounts payable are subject to change throughout the time period for the braces procedure. Her quote lists just the braces and maintenance. It does not include if at some point Sarah might need a procedure completed by a Dental Surgeon in order to correct any issues arising throughout the time she wears her braces.

This will be dealt with as the occurrence arises and 50% of the cost of the procedure will be your responsibility.

Included in this e-mail is documents to verify the amounts listed above and proof that the balances have been paid in full.

Your reimbursement payment for half of the children's Dental costs can be placed in the joint bank account and when received a receipt will be issued to you for your records.

The amount listed above is due in full on receipt of this e-mail dated June 5th, 2013 and is documented for my reference. 

Jason


----------



## Tron

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She said she didn't like when i went into lawyer mode last time with my e-mails. I pull all feeling out and just list the facts.


Awwwww. Who gives a F' what she likes or doesn't like at this point. 

Email is fine. Carry on J. Just get it done.

If she hasn't picked up the dresser by your deadline, put it outside the back and leave it. If someone hauls it off...oh well, not your problem. I like HM's recommendation although I would 1 up that and suggest you just take a dump in the bottom drawer before you set it out there.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She will be more pissed at the second one. I got the receipt from the dentist for Sarah's measurements for the braces and that add another $300 on .

Now she owes are $500 now.

The way I worded it was if she says no then basically she says she will not pay for her childs dental care.

These emails go in the binder for the lawyer that I see June 20 

The more that i realize that she has only paid $700 in 11 months for child support, the more i get pissed off.

I told my mother what I'm doing and my step-father says..she is trying to get off easy and it's not gonna happen. 

I'm so glad to have my family behind me..

I'm paying my mom back whether she likes it or not.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The more that i realize that she has only paid $700 in 11 months for child support, the more i get pissed off.


Much easier to do a false reconciliation while dating others.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No doubt. What I don't understand is how the POSOM could deal with her spending every weekend with me.

She told me that I couldn't hang out with her friends and her so that says a ton... kinda hard to sit with your husband and your OM.

That is why she got mad when i went to put balloons and flowers in her car at Valentines cause he could have seen it.

That is why she didn't want to go to therapy cause the building is next to her work and she didn't want him to see it.

The picture is getting very clear.


----------



## Wazza

Jason,

1) The fact that she doesn't like you in lawyer mode is irrelevant. You don't much like what she has done either.

2) Child support, dental bills, etc. I believe you have a right to make demands of her, but I don't believe you have a right to make whatever decisions and expect her to accept liability for half. Therefore you need to have discussions about things like dental work before the fact, not just present the bill to her and expect her to pay.

3) I would not pick a fight over the dresser. As you say she has some right to store stuff at the pizzeria, she owns half the business. If you get vindictive it might start her getting vindictive too.

4) Her behaviour during reconciliation was always "odd". Lots of us commented on that. It was always a possibility that she was seeing someone else. You didn't want to hear that. I say that not to rub salt in any wound, but because you need to harden up and be resolute.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Sarah has been getting dental work done since April... she knows that Sarah has had major dental work done. This isn't something she is just hearing about now.

She is trying to get another freebee Wazza and this time I'm putting my foot down. I have paid for everything for the last year.

The dresser can stay here.. I don't care.. it gives me a place to put her things as I find them in her house.

I'll let her respond.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> No doubt. What I don't understand is how the POSOM could deal with her spending every weekend with me.


She told him she was spending time with her children and she was being faithful to him.

She was.

He was getting what he wanted during the week.

Played you for a year or more of child support.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Now she's pissed:

Lisa:
I cannot afford to give you a dime on the teeth unless you give me my half of the investment...I'm starting to think that you've already received it and not given me my half what with the roof and the painting..If I have to take another job because of you, you better get flexible about visitation.

Jason:
I have not received the money.
You would have received your half.

Lisa:
Alright..you'll have to forgive me if I'm skeptical and lacking trust you've done nothing but kick me financially the last few months

Jason:
I will not allow you to blame me for your financial situation

Lisa:
well you better be flexible then about visitation cause no I have to get a second job..I'm only doing it for Sarah and Amie..don't ever think I do anything for your benefit.

-----------------------

i didn't respond.

If your wondering why I said what I did is because of my therapist. 
The three power words of control.
LET
ALLOW
PERMIT

She is trying to make me feel bad that she has to take a second job. I don't.. I work 10 hours a day making pizza while she works 8 - 4 and does nothing else.

I guarantee she will not get a second job.

See how she used the kids in this situation?

This is the second time she has said she would get a second job since she left last July.

Her finances are non of my concern. Is she saying that paying child support is running her down financially? I fixed her car for free!

OMG is she selfish


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am proud of myself in that I did not give a reason for my action.

She asked how I could afford the roof and the painting.

The reason is : 
The Roof.. my dad is helping me pay for it.
The paint extra was that I won $200 at the casino slots and spent it all on the house..

Normally I would have told her all of that but I'm finally getting the hang of not doing that. I think my therapist will be happy and say this is a breakthrough for me.


----------



## BK23

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I am proud of myself in that I did not give a reason for my action.
> 
> She asked how I could afford the roof and the painting.
> 
> The reason is :
> The Roof.. my dad is helping me pay for it.
> The paint extra was that I won $200 at the casino slots and spent it all on the house..
> 
> Normally I would have told her all of that but I'm finally getting the hang of not doing that. I think my therapist will be happy and say this is a breakthrough for me.


Stay strong, dude. It really sounds like you are turning the corner here. Get this divorce done, and don't take any more sh!t from this terrible excuse for a wife and mother.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She think she is smart by responding in text and not email so I just bought and app that prints off texts...

Actually not falling for her normal games is kinda liberating..

Thanks BK


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> She think she is smart by responding in text and not email so I just bought and app that prints off texts...
> 
> Actually not falling for her normal games is kinda liberating..
> 
> Thanks BK


Make her pay the maximum support.

NMMNG


----------



## Tron

conrad said:


> make her pay the maximum support.
> 
> Nmmng


Bingo!!!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The money she is talking about is a $4000 investment we cashed in and I took her off my life insurance. It is gonna be deposited into my account and I will transfer her half to the joint for her to move to her account.

She wonders why I have money.. it is because I have got so good with living on nothing but still paying the bills that I have a surplus now. When I get a real paying job I think the girls and I will do great now that I know how to handle money.

I also have money cause I don't have a high maintenance bank account draining EW in the house.

The reason she knows that I am painting is that I tagged Sarah on Facebook and she sees the pictures of the renovations I'm doing through that. I know she thinks I am spending the child support money on renovations and that is pissing her off. 

Actually , I take the child support money and buy groceries and clothes for the kids with it. The kids have never been hungry at all even though I have been down to the last few pennies a few months. What she doesn't know is that I had to borrowing a few hundred off my dad to pay the mortgage cause she wasn't giving my any child support.

I'm venting.. sorry about that


----------



## Tron

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I'm venting.. sorry about that


B!tch all you want J. I just like the fact you're mad and finally doing something about it.


----------



## Conrad

Tron said:


> B!tch all you want J. I just like the fact you're mad and finally doing something about it.


Saint Lisa - finally off the pedestal.


----------



## Tron

Conrad said:


> Saint Lisa - finally off the pedestal.


Hallelujah!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is interesting how she uses her words.

"I am doing this for Sarah and Amie, I wouldn't do anything for your benefit"
-I'm assuming she wanted me to recant and kiss her ass or something or give her the mother of the year award.

"you have done nothing but kick me down financially the last few months"
-Maybe that is because the last few months are the only time since she left that she paid me child support

" I don't have any money, no gas, or a have access to a truck"
-So Jason is supposed to move it, maybe slip her a few bucks like I did during reconciliation.

It's getting clear now.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Two broken people rescue each other.

One ends up feeling worthless. The other entitled.

I'm made up to see you realising that isn't true, you are *far *from worthless and she is should get exactly what she is "entitled" to!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks guys.

At least Lisa is texting Sarah. Sarah had a hang nail tonight that is infected. She texted her mom to see what to do ( she could have asked me). Her mother said she might need to see a doctor. 

Sarah told me what her mother said and I had her soak it in salt water and put polysporin and bandage it up for the night. That is what my mom used to do for us as a kid... might as well try it.

if it isn't better tomorrow I'll run her over to emerg to have them look at it.

I understand asking her mom... but I'm right here ? Why no ask me first?


----------



## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> At least Lisa is texting Sarah. Sarah had a hang nail tonight that is infected. She texted her mom to see what to do ( she could have asked me). Her mother said she might need to see a doctor.
> 
> Sarah told me what her mother said and I had her soak it in salt water and put polysporin and bandage it up for the night. That is what my mom used to do for us as a kid... might as well try it.
> 
> if it isn't better tomorrow I'll run her over to emerg to have them look at it.
> 
> *I understand asking her mom... but I'm right here ? Why no ask me first?*


So what do you want exactly? Would you like Sarah to feel comfortable asking her mother about things or would you prefer Sarah to have nothing to do with her mother?

In the long run, you possibly just took care of it by doing what you did for her. Rather than look externally and find things to nitpick about, be proud of the fact that you just fathered the hell out of that hangnail.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I don't know... she did come to me right after talking to her mom.

She said.. mom thinks I might have to have this looked at. I said...lets try something your grandmother did for me. 

After 15 minutes of soaking she said..Dad.. it looks better. I helped her with the antibiotic and wrapped it up, kissed her goodnight and sent her to bed.

I suppose I don't notice all the things I do for her naturally.

The next thing I need to get comfortable is the fact that she will be getting her period soon and I need to react in a way that shows that I am comfortable with it.

I asked one of the girls that work for me and they said to make sure she keeps back up clothes and supplies in the top of her locker just for that occasion. I'm going to talk to her about that and assure her that daddy will buy her anything she needs to be prepared for that to happen.

Lisa already made comments and even in court that I wouldn't be able to handle this part of being a dad. Screw that.. I certainly can...


----------



## Northern Monkey

Another example of her opinion of you being worthless.

Not only can you do it, you will do it, and do it brilliantly!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I swear to god I almost fainted in court when she said I put my fingers in my ears closed my eyes and went blah blah blah..

I did that a few times for fun saying that I didn't want to hear about it...BUT IT WAS A JOKE.

She told me later after we were talking again that she was doing whatever she could to get the girls...


----------



## VFW

Understand Dad that kids have gone to mom for certain things there entire life, that you are now just getting involved with now. This includes this minor medical issue. This is not disrespecting you, she is just use to going to mom for these things. She did address the issue with you and you assisted her. Now she has learned that dad has some expertise in this area as well and may bring it to you first.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That makes sense...


----------



## karole

You might want to buy the book "The Care and Keeping of You" which is in the American Girl series. The book would be very helpful for your girls in explaining in easy to understand terms the changes occurring in their bodies.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

We have a great book ... can't remember the name.

Lisa did prep Sarah pretty well and she has talked to her mom quite a bit.

A couple weeks I told her that I understand what is happening and that I am there for her for anything she needs. She smiled..

We had a really nice time last night after i picked them up from some time with their grandparents. We stopped for a snack.. and Sarah and i talked about music, music labels, and lots of not 13 year old stuff like space and physics.

She loves science and history and more than once I have come in the room to find her watching shows on space and quantum physics stuff. I love that stuff and said that to her. She said she loves it but it is always on when she is in bed.

I offered to tape her of the shows for her to watch after school...or we can watch them together when I get home from work.

Sarah and I have really been bonding the last few months... more than usual. She wants to help with the renovations and really wants to get up on the roof and help shingle.

While she is at her mothers on Sat I'm gonna get her her own hammer and pouch. 

We are gonna frame and hang doors the beginning of next week..


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

BTW.. I have picked up my guitar again to fill the quiet times after the kids go to bed. I still get a little blue and lonely.. so I play my guitar until I am tired then go to bed.

Much better than staring at the TV...and pondering my future.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Jason,



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> No doubt. What I don't understand is how the POSOM could deal with her spending every weekend with me.
> 
> *She told me that I couldn't hang out with her friends and her so that says a ton... kinda hard to sit with your husband and your OM.*
> 
> That is why she got mad when i went to put balloons and flowers in her car at Valentines cause he could have seen it.
> 
> That is why she didn't want to go to therapy cause the building is next to her work and she didn't want him to see it.
> 
> The picture is getting very clear.


Please excuse my language! Lisa can go [email protected] herself! _(mods please don't ban me!!)_ No one, and I'm MEAN, NO ONE has the right to tell YOU, who YOU can be FRIENDS WITH!

LISA is one mother of a control freak! I'm so glad you're going to divorce her sorry tiny little backside! Let her new man have her, sooner or later he'll work it out for himself, NOT your problem ANYMORE!

I understand YOU need to talk about the kids and money, that's a reality and one that you need to make sure you have the upper hand in.

Keep going...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You are right.... for the longest time I thought I was the control one. But I never complained that she because a spiritualist. I even went to church with her so I could learn about it even though it wasn't my type of thing.

I used to sleep on her side of the bed so it when she got home from her late shifts it would be warm. 

I used to go out in my pajamas and scrap her windows and dig out her car at 5 in the morning for her even though I didn't need to be up. 

When we almost split up in 2008 over money I sold $8000 worth of my "stuff" (cars/racers...)

I would go uptown at 10:30 at night because she wanted chocolate

I drove 30 minutes while she was pregnant to buy Popsicles because her tummy hurt.

I would rub her feet when they hurt and on that little spot on the side or her toes that she love rubbed.

I didn't ***** that she put out maybe 5 times a month

I blew up 40 fricking balloons to fill her car.

I bought her a $100 flower set for her desk at work and she gave it away.

I could go on....

I did so much for that woman and she has the nerve to say I'm squeezing her financially or that I did anything bad to her.

I have made due WELL under the poverty line for a year working full time.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have a new project that I'm going to do with my girls.

Sarah and Amie both love making movies. I'm going to make a music video.

I have equipment to record the music (me singing and playing the guitar), I have video editing software.....and I'm buying a video recorder when I get my part of the investment money (just a little cheap one..I fill my phone too much with video)

I have a good group of songs I would like to do....

Sarah and Amie can take turns recording the video and that's perfect cause they are different heights....

I've wanted to do this for a while with them.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I have a new project that I'm going to do with my girls.
> 
> Sarah and Amie both love making movies. I'm going to make a music video.
> 
> I have equipment to record the music (me singing and playing the guitar), I have video editing software.....and I'm buying a video recorder when I get my part of the investment money (just a little cheap one..I fill my phone too much with video)
> 
> I have a good group of songs I would like to do....
> 
> Sarah and Amie can take turns recording the video and that's perfect cause they are different heights....
> 
> I've wanted to do this for a while with them.


Hi Jason, 
So after 1550 posts, we finally have the REAL reason why Lisa left you. After 17 years, she couldn’t stand your singing anymore!!!! I knew there had to be a reason; your singing caused her to have a mental break down. 

Oh, that’s so SAD! Maybe you could give her your old username “Sadwithtwolittlegirls”.


----------



## Conrad

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Hi Jason,
> So after 1550 posts, we finally have the REAL reason why Lisa left you. After 17 years, she couldn’t stand your singing anymore!!!! I knew there had to be a reason; your singing caused her to have a mental break down.
> 
> Oh, that’s so SAD! Maybe you could give her your old username “Sadwithtwolittlegirls”.


Sadwithouttwolittlegirls


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I think the more activities I do with them the better it will look when they speak to a therapist or judge.


----------



## Conrad

Conrad said:


> Sadwithouttwolittlegirls


Sadwhilepayingchildsupport


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is Lisa right now


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Conrad said:


> Sadwithouttwolittlegirls





Conrad said:


> Sadwhilepayingchildsupport





Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> *(1)* That is Lisa right now


Jason, 
I'm so sorry, I think I've made Conrad have a mental break down......:lol: 
*(1) *True, but in time Lisa may feel like this......

*SadwithOMmissmykids*

*SadwithOMwantmyexback*

*SadwithOMwantmyfamilyback*

Oh no, I think I'm having a mental break down as well now.....:lol:


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

POSOM has no idea what he is in for.

By the time she comes to her senses I will be long gone.

I couldn't imagine having to drive my lover around because they have no vehicle. I used to get in $hit for playing video games yet POSOM is a gamer....and that is for hours on end.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> POSOM has no idea what he is in for.
> 
> By the time she comes to her senses I will be long gone.
> 
> I couldn't imagine having to drive my lover around because they have no vehicle. I used to get in $hit for playing video games yet POSOM is a gamer....and that is for hours on end.


That's because her true problems are internal. Not external.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Made it through another long tale of another TAMer. Jason, I'm so glad you changed your username from Sad to DAD. You have been an outstanding father to your kids. I applaud you. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm doing the same here. I felt exactly the same things you thought during so many points of the recovery. I'm on my second marriage, so maybe I was able to detach faster than others, but I'm in MUCH better shape today than before. Not all the way healed, but on my way.

Stay strong brother! You have support from me and so many other members of this great community.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well.. It's June 7th and I haven't seen any Child Support. 

I sent her a text last night asked for the two days that I will be getting my child support payments.

She didn't respond.

Is that not a reasonable question to ask?

Will I have to go into lawyer mod with a detailed e-mail?


----------



## 06Daddio08

This is why it's important to get the lawyer rolling, full steam ahead. The money could be automatically deposited.

Sent a BRIEF email stating the support arrangement and now it's yet to be given. Do not make it a long drawn out letter.


----------



## karole

You need to have your attorney get at least a temporary order in place re: visitation and child support. If she doesn't pay, the Child Support Recovery Unit can go after her for the back child support by filing suit, a garnishment, etc.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I see him on the 20th

In Canada we have the FRO ( Family Responsibility Office )..

Right now we are on the honour system that she will pay each month and I issue a receipt.


----------



## northernlights

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> The next thing I need to get comfortable is the fact that she will be getting her period soon and I need to react in a way that shows that I am comfortable with it.


I'd go ahead and stock up on pads and pantiliners (they're different!) in advance. Periods always manage to arrive at the least convenient time! Just tell her that they're there for her, and if she'd rather try a different brand just let you know and you'll get that. Look for something that's super thin (always infinity pad is super absorbent and ultra-thin). It's really weird to have to get used to a super bulky pad and having your period for the first time.

Tampons are scary for some girls the first time. I have an older sister so she walked me through using them, so I was lucky. Maybe have a box of those too, it's not like they'll expire if she wants to wait a while to try them out, and they'll be there if she wants them.

Do you have sisters? Is your mother around? It turned out that my periods are most like my father's mother's (which is to say, crazy heavy). I ended up severely anemic before I realized that they weren't normal. So, knowing what they're like for the women in your family might help you and her prepare. My sister takes after my mom and her side and her periods are super light. My mom had just assumed mine were like her's and my sister's. I wish...


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

If Sarah is anything like her mother then I will need lots of supplies . I don't have any sisters...


----------



## northernlights

I hope not for her sake! But you should probably buy some of those extra-long overnighter too, just in case.


----------



## Suspecting

How long was her affair with your brother?

I might have an inkling why your marriage turned out like this and why she left you but I'm not sure if you want to hear it. I think everyone in this thread has avoided mentioning it.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Her affair with my brother was about 6 months.

I also think this POSOM issue has gone on for a while... your not gonna be the first to say she he been having a double life...


----------



## Suspecting

Well, here it is. You said the affair started around 1999 and that your brother asked sex from her up to when your daughter was three. I take it you have no way of confirming how long the affair really was. Your oldest one is turning 13 so she was born in 2000. The affair started in 1999... Do you see where I'm getting at with this?


----------



## happyman64

Suspecting said:


> How long was her affair with your brother?
> 
> I might have an inkling why your marriage turned out like this and why she left you but I'm not sure if you want to hear it. I think everyone in this thread has avoided mentioning it.


Go way back in the thread. It was not avoided.

His marriage turned out like this because his wife has deep issues.

She cheated with a family member. 

The best thing for Jason is to cut all ties with his wife except for the girls. He needs to take care of them because his wife abandoned their children to be with someone else.

That shows Jason exactly what type of person his wife truly is...

Hm


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Suspect...She avoided him like the plague. She would not be in the same room as him, etc. It ended when She got pregnant with Sarah. he is fixed so Sarah is mine.

Now I know Lisa has had a crush in the POSOM since the day she started at her work in September 2011. She told my good friend Sharon about it and mentioned to her only a few months after she started at her job that she wanted to leave me. She then left the following July. She told me she dated him during our break up.

POSOM history:

Lisa dated him last September while we were split up the first time. He has a young boy, lives with a friend from work (but she is seeing someone else). The POSOM's roomate used to show up at places Lisa and him would have coffee and that pissed Lisa off terribly. Basically as I understand it is that she wanted hiim to move out of her house if she was to be with her. He didn't and that ended things.

The situation is no different this time. He is still living at the same house but Lisa now has her own apartment so as I see it.. they couldn't get together(sex) at each house because of room mates. Now that she has her own place they now have a place they can rock n roll at all they want. Now they are a couple cause she told me that last Saturday.

Remember that my friends work with her and POSOM..

I have told everyone that I want to know nothing more about the situation, what they are doing etc. I don't need to be dragged through the dirt more than I have. I am dealing quite well with the situation and I don't want to be dragged down again.


----------



## happyman64

> I am dealing quite well with the situation and I don't want to be dragged down again.


And that is the right attitude Jason.


It is called "F" Her!

Take care of yourself and the girls. They are all that matters now.


----------



## Suspecting

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Suspect...She avoided him like the plague. She would not be in the same room as him, etc. It ended when She got pregnant with Sarah. he is fixed so Sarah is mine.
> 
> Now I know Lisa has had a crush in the POSOM since the day she started at her work in September 2011. She told my good friend Sharon about it and mentioned to her only a few months after she started at her job that she wanted to leave me. She then left the following July. She told me she dated him during our break up.
> 
> POSOM history:
> 
> Lisa dated him last September while we were split up the first time. He has a young boy, lives with a friend from work (but she is seeing someone else). The POSOM's roomate used to show up at places Lisa and him would have coffee and that pissed Lisa off terribly. Basically as I understand it is that she wanted hiim to move out of her house if she was to be with her. He didn't and that ended things.
> 
> The situation is no different this time. He is still living at the same house but Lisa now has her own apartment so as I see it.. they couldn't get together(sex) at each house because of room mates. Now that she has her own place they now have a place they can rock n roll at all they want. Now they are a couple cause she told me that last Saturday.
> 
> Remember that my friends work with her and POSOM..
> 
> I have told everyone that I want to know nothing more about the situation, what they are doing etc. I don't need to be dragged through the dirt more than I have. I am dealing quite well with the situation and I don't want to be dragged down again.


Ok, that clears things. I didn't see it mentioned that your brother is fixed and thought everyone was avoiding to bring the paternity test subject... Good I was wrong then.

Anyway the sad fact is your wife is a serial cheater. I believe she was already having the affair with the OM before she left and while you were still having sex with her.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I have no idea when and what they did and thinking about it is upsetting so I'm going to end the talk about the OM.

There is nothing I can do about it and taking care of the girls is number 1. Like my therapist said is ... there is nothing I can do so learn to purge it from your mind.

Just be civil at the kid swap. 

NO MORE *LETTING* LISA DRAG ME INTO ANYMORE FIGHTS. 
NO MORE *ALLOWING* LISA TO TRY AND CONTROL MY LIFE 
NO MORE *PERMITTING* LISA'S BEHAVIOUR TO EFFECT HOW I LIVE AND PARENT
*POWER WORDS*


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is what really pissed her off in the last set of texts when she said that I caused her financial difficulty and I responded with "I will not allow you to blame me of your financial situation"

She was pissed cause I didn't let her control the situation and put me back in control. Exactly what Bruce has been teaching me for the last 2 months. I also didn't ALLOW her to pull me into a fight by saying that I was making her get a second job.

I didn't respond and kept CONTROL of the situation.

Tomorrow I am going to pull up beside her car. Get out. Kiss the kids and say " I hope you all have a great day" then I'm leaving.

The same thing tomorrow night. "Hi girls I hope you had a great day, we will see you next Saturday" then I'm leaving.

I know she is going to want proof that the money has not been put in my account and I'm not holding it on her. I DONT have to answer to her anymore..she is NOT my wife anymore.

If she wants bank records, have the court request it.. Otherwise she isn't seeing $hit. I dont have to show her a damn thing. She can call the insurance company and ask when it was deposited.

I don't care if she is living on SPAM. She chose this life for herself. She could have came home and worked on it but she didn't


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well tonight was interesting.

We were planning on going swimming so as we were getting ready I noticed Sarah was kinda pissy. I said.. what is wrong.

She burst into tears saying she took her diary to the park and left it there and now it's gone. She was devastated and very upset.

She said her friend buried it in the sand to make sure no one finds it.

I grabbed my hoe and headed to the park. After an hour of raking the sand I found nothing.. Sarah said she would text her friend to see if we were looking in the wrong place.

On the way to the pool she gets a text that said it was on the other side.

So... after swimming we headed back to the park. Drove the car in the park and turned on the high beams..

After about 20 minutes.. I found it buried in the dirt. 

She was so happy.

I told her.. Daddy will do everything he can to make sure she is happy.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Wow. Well done sir.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I figured since I was on a roll I dealt with the fact she will getting her period soon.

Her mom has her prepped with supplies.. but I gave her a big hug and said that she can come to me if she needs things for it. I will go to the store for her. I will bring her clothes to change into..Dad will make sure she is looked after when it comes to that.

I let her know I have no issues with it and because I'm the one here for her she needs to know she can count on me even though I am a guy. 

My good friend Sharon will be a great help here when I need advice.


----------



## Suspecting

Don't they teach about periods and stuff in school? I remember it was taught to the girls when I was in 5th grade.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

They do.. she knows all about it.

I was just letting her know that she can talk to me about it... not just her mother. I'm at home.. not her.


----------



## Suspecting

In addition there is the school nurse who will help too.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

No nurse at our school... Less than 200 kids.. one nurse for 3 school here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well Lisa must be really pissed..

She didn't get out of the car this morning for the swap... didn't even look up from her phone.

BUT....

It looks like she hit something or something REALLY big hit her car this week in the front. There was two HUGE creases on her right front fender. The front tire looks off. Kinda tilted. Could have just looked like that since the fender is smashed in.

Good thing I don't have to fix it 

I can imagine between me giving her a bill for $520 for dental and smashing her car... I bet she has had a wonderful week.

That's OK.. the POSOM can comfort her now.


----------



## happyman64

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well Lisa must be really pissed..
> 
> Good thing I don't have to fix it
> 
> That's OK.. the POSOM can comfort her now.


Exactly right.

Now you are getting it Jason.

She is no longer your concern.

She is just someone that you used to know and coparent with.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep...

I'm actually finding my anxiety is reducing each week. I think knowing that she moved on helps versus wondering. I think she did me a favor by doing that.

So I have been talking to this lady i met online. We got on the phone at 9:45pm the other night and next thing you know it was 2:45 in the morning.

We have been texting non stop ever since then. We have been talking for two weeks now. 

I thanked her for the nice talk and that she accepted my past. She told me that she connected with me during our talk.

We hope to meet this week.

She has been on her own for the past 2 years since her on and off again boyfriend and father of second child died suddenly. Like me.. she is a little scared of the thought of dating again.

This might lead somewhere.. but no matter what we both thinks if we don't "spark" we know we will both be friends. She is really funny, has a great job and owns her own house. The one thing is that she is a smoker. I suppose you can't have everything..

I think she was testing me last night.. I was talking about hot tubs and she said she was soaking. I realized it must have been her tub and said that. 

From the impression I got i think she was trying to see if i was a creep and maybe would have asked for pictures or anything of her in the tub. Since none of our conversations have gone that way.. I avoided the topic and moved on to other topics.

Maybe a lady can chime in.. but I didn't fall for the bait. I'm sure it was a "are you a creep" test. I think i passed.

I don't want that type of relationship.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... had a 2 hour talk on the phone with Leah ( New woman..same woman that I had the big talk with the other day). Unfortunately a bit more of Lisa came up in the conversation.

I stopped the conversation and told her that I don't want to talk about my ex.. as that is not helpful when we are starting to get to know each other. We changed the subject and moved on.

I get off the phone and have this sudden empty feelings.

I wondering if it is guilt, that meeting someone new is somehow dirty..or what.. I am feeling really low right now 

will I still have up and down days? Or maybe when I meet Leah I will loose this empty feeling when someone else makes me feel wanted again.. I still have this abandonment feeling. Maybe since the kids are not here is giving me too much time to think. All I know is I hate this feeling. 

I'm glad I'm talking to Bruce this week. Two weeks between sessions is too long right now.

I'm going to work on my list for a separation agreement with Lisa to bring to my Lawyer on the 20th.

Things I want right now.
* Custody (Joint is fine)
* The TABLED amount of child support based on her present income not what she told me she would pay.
* I stay in the matrimonial home with the children
* She pays half of dental medical expenses
* Every other Christmas Day
* Every other New Years Eve/New years day combo
* She will get the girls Mother's Day

Now in the separation agreement do we split any of the assets or do we just wait until the divorce part to do that.

All I know is that I don't want her to take my children and I need something binding.

I feel I should have the lawyer write up the separation agreement so I don't get screwed.


----------



## 06Daddio08

You will have up and down days for the rest of your life.


----------



## Wazza

06Daddio08 said:


> You will have up and down days for the rest of your life.


As no doubt you always have. We all do.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I guess deep down inside I'm still mourning but forcing myself to move ahead and on.

I agree.. somedays I'm pissed mad and other days I still mourning the upcoming end of my marriage.

All I know as it wrecks your day.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I guess deep down inside I'm still mourning but forcing myself to move ahead and on.
> 
> I agree.. somedays I'm pissed mad and other days I still mourning the upcoming end of my marriage.
> 
> All I know as it wrecks your day.


All the more reason to keep working on yourself. It helps reduce the wake of said feelings.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Jason, 



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I guess deep down inside I'm still mourning but forcing myself to move ahead and on.
> 
> *I agree.. somedays I'm pissed mad and other days I still mourning the upcoming end of my marriage.*
> 
> All I know as it wrecks your day.


 

*"2013 **The End Of A New Beginning!"*​ 

:smthumbup:​


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well... I have date tonight.
I'm pretty excited..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## northernlights

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I have date tonight.
> I'm pretty excited..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yay! Enjoy yourself!


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well... I have date tonight.
> I'm pretty excited..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How'd the date go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

She is wonderful... cute and just a nice happy person.

We got in my car and drove down along the St. Clair river.. sat on a picnic table and looked across the river to the state side.

Watched a cargo ship go by..birds, bats...

We just chatted and chatted.

We are going to see each other again.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Attaboy. Take it slow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

That is the plan


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Help....

I feel terribly guilty even though I didn't do anything with this new woman. 

I know Lisa doesn't feel guilty or she wouldn't have told me.. but i feel dirty and guilty. Like I'm cheating or running around behind her back.

My friend says it is just because I'm so used to being treated like crap that I don't know how to take it when i woman treats me nice. 

Sharon reminded me how many times Lisa called me an a$$hole in front of her and how pissy she would be around me.

Maybe i need deprogramming. I will talk to Bruce about this during our next session. Maybe Lisa sucked the self esteem out of me.

I should be happy that I found someone nice, that understands me and is accepting of my past. I am of hers...

Have I not full detached from Lisa? I am I just fooling myself that I am not ready to date? I'm I just getting too used to being on my own?

I'm SUPER confused.

I do want this to try and work. She is great company. Have i locked her in the friend zone? 

I can't even picture me kissing someone let alone cuddling with someone and I certain don't want sex. 

HELP.....


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Help....
> 
> I feel terribly guilty even though I didn't do anything with this new woman.
> 
> I know Lisa doesn't feel guilty or she wouldn't have told me.. but i feel dirty and guilty. Like I'm cheating or running around behind her back.
> 
> My friend says it is just because I'm so used to being treated like crap that I don't know how to take it when i woman treats me nice.
> 
> Sharon reminded me how many times Lisa called me an a$$hole in front of her and how pissy she would be around me.
> 
> Maybe i need deprogramming. I will talk to Bruce about this during our next session. Maybe Lisa sucked the self esteem out of me.
> 
> I should be happy that I found someone nice, that understands me and is accepting of my past. I am of hers...
> 
> Have I not full detached from Lisa? I am I just fooling myself that I am not ready to date? I'm I just getting too used to being on my own?
> 
> I'm SUPER confused.
> 
> I do want this to try and work. She is great company. Have i locked her in the friend zone?
> 
> I can't even picture me kissing someone let alone cuddling with someone and I certain don't want sex.
> 
> HELP.....


Doesn't sound like you're taking it slow.

This post is 100MPH.


----------



## GutPunch

You have not fully detached yet or guilt would not be in the equation.

You have done nothing wrong.

Between you and Lisa, you are the only one who can be proud looking in the mirror in the morning.

No regrets, you are giving Lisa exactly what she asked for.


----------



## GutPunch

Conrad said:


> Doesn't sound like you're taking it slow.
> 
> This post is 100MPH.


True....picnic to imaginary sex. That is fast.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The reason I said that is that she said last night that if she didn't have to work this morning she wanted me to come over for a movie.

Now.. that doesn't mean it has to turn into sex... but the thought makes me uncomfortable.

I would be happy if we meet a few more times before i even hold her hand. That is how scared of this process.

I have not made 1 sex comment to her and I have no intentions of it. I want to be her friend before anything.

I know she has been alone for 2 1/2 years so what is a few more months to make sure it is right.. That is how I see it.

I do agree.. I am playing directly into Lisa's hands. She wants me miserable and I am when i should be happy.

Got more done on the roof on Saturday and this weekend should finished it up and on to the next project to get the house ready to sell. that makes me happy.

Here is something that pissed me off.

Two weeks ago Lisa and I cancelled our investment and now we are waiting for it to be deposited into my bank account and then I put half into the joint account for Lisa to transfer.

Last week she thought I wasn't giving her the half cause I was doing these renovations. I didn't get the money and I won some at the slots and the other came from my dad. That is none of her business so I didn't tell her. I just said that I hadn't received it. Too bad for her if she is broke.

Well .. the kid know nothing of this money as they shouldn't need to know. On Saturday, Lisa asked Sarah if Daddy had gotten some money and didn't give mommy her half.

Seriously WTF. Why ask the children. That is an adult issue.

All Sarah said was. "Mommy asked if you got some money and didn't give her her half"

I told Sarah that she didn't need to worry about that and it is between mommy and daddy. You just be a kid..


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

Seriously, is there a way for you to submit a post that doesn't turn into more about Lisa?


----------



## GutPunch

ALPHA

ALPHA

ALPHA

You need more ALPHA!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes...but.... there might be more as I go through the lawyer process.

I just thought that was uncalled for by her but I suppose not surprising since she is selfish.

Do you think it's weird for me to be invited so quickly to her home. I would be meeting her son on a second date (since the boys dad is dead she has him all the time).

It was nice for her to say that I was upbeat and seemed quite comfortable. Meeting Leah was like meeting an old friend. After about 6 hours on the phone and multitudes of texts there is very little I don't know about her.

I told her that I was very comfortable with her. Maybe online dating isn't so bad...

I had a lady who is 5'9" send me a message the other day. All I could think is that I would look like an umpa lumpa standing beside her.. LOL.. I'm 5'6"

Leah is a little shorter than me.. which is nice.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Alpha?


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

There are ALL SORTS of things you don't know about her.

What you know is what she's shown you.

Stay @50,000 and don't overthink this.


----------



## GutPunch

If you aren't ready for sex then don't do it.

However, let her know you want to take things slowly.

Don't put yourself in a position where sex is an option.

You don't want to reject her when she puts the moves on you.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Very true... on both points. When you first meet someone you don't know everything in a few meetings.

Maybe going to her house after her boy is in bed is asking to be put in a situation I'm not ready for. 

Maybe just keep with the coffees and going for a walk until I'm more comfortable...

This is a journey , not a race


----------



## happyman64

Exactly. Races are not fun.

Journeys are to be enjoyed.

So enjoy the journey....

And while I am writing you. Stop thinking of Lisa. 

Good riddance to bad rubbish!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

For sure. 

The other nice thing I have done is to pick up my guitar again. I am using it to fill the extra time at night after the girls go to bed. I used to play ALL the time years ago.

I forgot how much I enjoyed it.

I'm learning slowly to fill up free time so that I don't think of STBXW.

Sometimes I have to push myself. On Saturday I really needed to cut the lawn or buy a goat and put him on a rope. I pushed myself and got it done.

It's hard but....I don't have a choice but to go on and make the best of my life


----------



## GutPunch

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Alpha?


Alpha refers to male hierarchal status among other males. He is the guy that commands respect from men and the girls want to sleep with.

I suggest reading the book MMSLP by Athol Kay. It will definitely open your eyes. Every man should be required to read it.

Remember this journey is about self-improvement.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OH.. The Alpha Male...... Got it.

By itself I didn't get it.

Kinda like being a pack leader among animals in the wild.

I'm gonna check out that book. Maybe I can download it to my reader on my phone.

But it's that why some women are attracted to ********* guys because they are confident?


----------



## GutPunch

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OH.. The Alpha Male...... Got it.
> 
> By itself I didn't get it.
> 
> Kinda like being a pack leader among animals in the wild.
> 
> I'm gonna check out that book. Maybe I can download it to my reader on my phone.
> 
> But it's that why some women are attracted to ********* guys because they are confident?



All women are sub-consciously drawn to the Alpha. 

However, 100% Alpha means your not marriage material.

You have to find a balance. 

I think a good first step for you would be read the book and use it to enhance your Alpha side of the equation.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I just downloaded it. Getting the text to speech so I can listen to it while I work around the pizzeria.


----------



## Conrad

Jason,

Attraction is subconscious


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know.. I was the alpha male during court. That could have been some of the reason she came back..but also money. Then I feel apart.

I find myself slowly gaining confidence day by day. The more I talk with Bruce, the more i set my goal of finishing the house to sell and getting it done, by not explaining myself when I am asked about my own finances.

It is a time thing. 

Bruce told me that we are going to work on ME.. to get me to be that confident man that stood in that court room, prepared, confident and not backing down. 

I think Leah saw some confidence in me. When she pulled up to meet me I was talking to a guy with a boat that i never met before. I am able to be myself more. I naturally can just talk to strangers..that's why I'm good in this job..even though I hate it.

It was just so nice to be able to talk and not wonder if i was gonna get yelled at or a cold shoulder or something.

She sat with her leg touching mine. The first real contact I has had in a long time. It was nice. I could be me.


----------



## LostViking

Just let nature take its course for crying out loud. Relax and just enjoy the company of a woman. If you have sex you have sex, if you do not you do not. It's not a huge deal. 


Quit over analyzing everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

At least I know she wont get pregnant if it does happen.. I'm fixed.

As you have noticed... I'm terrible for over analyzing things..


----------



## Northern Monkey

You know that "say less, do more" thing... "think less, do more" may now be in order! 

I am a typical over thinker btw.

I took the plunge a little while ago , I wasn't looking for anyone but when it just happened, i chose to go with it and see where it led. I'm treading carefully but I refuse to allow my stbx the control that would come from being afraid of meeting new people.

I gave her what she wanted so she can be "happiernow", well now i'm looking out for what I want.

Live a little in the now, you might just be surprised!


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Exactly....

By me being scared of meeting new people ALLOWS Lisa to continue to control my emotions and actions.

I have no intentions on stopping this with Leah.

I have only met her once and talked to her on the phone and texted.

Like Bruce said ..throw my list of things I'm looking for in the trash cause I will then miss the person that is better than I ever imagined if I use blind eyes.

I have a good friend who just got divorced and she still feels guilty once and a while because she is dating right after the divorce. She is the one that left too. I'm not alone.


----------



## Northern Monkey

I've had the occasional weird moment in it myself, I think it is natural.

Just tread carefully, you have to try hard to not bring old issues into a new relationship. Watch for the red flags.. not just from a new girl but especially from yourself.

Don't let a new relationship, however casual or serious draw your focus away from yourself.

If any of that looks scary.. its because, at least in my mind, it is, but at least they are reasons from you rather than Lisa.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Very true..

I am treading lightly. I do like that she texts me out of the blue to ask how my day is and that she is thinking of me. I never got that before when i was married.


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Very true..
> 
> I am treading lightly. I do like that she texts me out of the blue to ask how my day is and that she is thinking of me. I never got that before when i was married.


It actually feels good when a partner can see past their nose.

I realize that's a strange feeling for you.


----------



## happyman64

Jason

It feels great when you know someone else cares about you!

Is thinking about you!

You have gone on too long without that feeling.

Do yourself a favor.

No longer say your wifes name to yourself. Do not write it here.

It helps.

Focus on you. Focus your thoughts on yourself, your girls and your future.

HM


----------



## Conrad

happyman64 said:


> Jason
> 
> It feels great when you know someone else cares about you!
> 
> Is thinking about you!
> 
> You have gone on too long without that feeling.
> 
> Do yourself a favor.
> 
> No longer say your wifes name to yourself. Do not write it here.
> 
> It helps.
> 
> Focus on you. Focus your thoughts on yourself, your girls and your future.
> 
> HM


Happy, 

I've contacted the mods.

If the word "L**a" is found again in this thread, it's instant banishment for the author.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm going to try my best. I can tell you that I can't wait to see my lawyer next week to see what is the best plan. I don't think Mediation will be on the table as an option.

I see Bruce next week and I look forward to meeting with him. He is very helpful and i will be glad when I can just focus on ME instead of the issues I have letting go of HER.

It might be tough to see Leah for the next week. She has her daughter this week and only sees her 4 days a months so I don't expect her to plan anything with me.

Has anyone ever used Skype when dating someone?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I know no talk about L but last night put me over the top.

A few months ago L told Sarah that she would come on the end of the year field trip. Well.. the money for the trip is due this Thursday.

Sarah sent a text reminding L that she needed to have the money into the school by Thursday to pay for her ticket.

She then tells Sarah that she got the day off but has no money to go. With all of her deposits and other things she has no money left to go on the trip.

Sarah was VERY upset. She came up and told me about it.

I sent L a text.

____________________________________________________

This is her text word for word.

me:

Your daughter is very upset that you are skipping out of a trip you said you would go on a few months ago. Very Nice.

L:

You gonna pay for me to go? If that money (investment) had come in no problem but I don't have a dime so dont even both trying to make me feeling any more guilty about it if you want child support I can't go end of story leave me alone.

Me:

Just don't make promises to the children you can't keep and this wouldn't have been an issue.

____________________________________________________

Now since she knew she agreed to go and school knew... dont you think she could have put the $28 aside sometime over the last few months to cover her ticket?

Well... I started texting my staff.... after about 30 minutes I managed to get two of my staff to cover my work day on Monday.

So I'm going instead. Sarah was super happy. 

I keep thinking that your children remember things like this and this will just be another good memory with me in it.

I can't believe all of this was over $28.


----------



## Conrad

Perma-ban in 5....4....3...2.....


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Hey... this was more about my daughter than L. 

I'm having a terrible time seeing Sarah being let down from her mom.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Hey... this was more about my daughter than L.
> 
> I'm having a terrible time seeing Sarah being let down from her mom.


Good move stepping in and making the experience a memorable one for your daughter after your ex dropped the ball.

Although next time I suggest not bothering with the lecturing text. Confirm her absence and then inform that you're attending instead.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I suppose i just wanted to kick her while she was down.. 
Acting like that brings me down to her level. 

I bet we will be on the bus around 6am I bet and at least it's a coach so maybe I can crash on the way.. (2 hour bus ride). I doubt it when you have 35 grade 7 students.

The nice thing is that I can tag Sarah in a lot of awesome pictures for Facebook. Then her mom can see through Sarah's facebook how fun the day she missed was 

I'm going to add this incident to my pile for the lawyer. She backed out so i had to step in since the ticket was already purchased and lost a days pay to cover for L.

Poor Sarah texted me this morning.. her mouth still really hurts from the two teeth she had pulled yesterday. Next up is the installation of the braces on July 22. Right after camp. Then two years later she should have an awesome smile. She told me she wished she could have them on today...that's my girl. She knows it's gonna hurt as they move the teeth but she says it doesn't bother her as long as she gets a nice smile in the end.

I can't agree more.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Being silent when she expects a reaction from you sends a much stronger message.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I'm kinda feeling like Super Dad right now.

Last weekend I dug up a sandpit at the park for an hour and a half and by the headlights of my car and found Sarah's diary that was buried.

This week I steeped in and fixed a bad situation.. 

I really do have more positive things in my life that I don't realize.

Other than the hump with the stupid lecture to L last night. I think I'm doing great and learning from Bruce very well.

I'm starting to do more things with the girls after work. Last night i took them to the library and Amie got a book on drawing.. she was so excited.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

06Daddio08 said:


> Being silent when she expects a reaction from you sends a much stronger message.


Yes.... you are completely right now that I look back on it. 

Also actions speak louder than words. My actions lately have show Sarah that Daddy will not let her down.

Also actions shows me that L has always been wrong about how she saw me and that she actually never really knew me and only saw me through her angry fog. 

I am a great guy and a great dad... I will not let anyone tell me otherwise.

Leah mentioned to me last night about how good of a father I am to my girls. As I told her some things that have happened lately (cause she asked) she said she the girls are lucky to have me. That felt nice although I'm learning to pat myself on the back instead of looking for others to prop me up.

In therapy Bruce says..

Take your right arm and put your hand over your left shoulder.

Now move your fingers up and down.

You don't need others to pat you on the back....do it yourself.


----------



## happyman64

Jason

Think a little more evil.

You should have paid the $28.00, told Lisa to go and then had Sarah hand her an IOU for the $28.00 at the end of the trip.

But I am glad you are going and enjoy the trip.

HM


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

ha ha..
Just like 8 months of child support I never got, I wouldn't see this $28 again.

I think it is evil enough for her having to look on Sarah's facebook and see how good of a time Sarah and i had together on the trip she was supposed to go on.

She can stay home and be miserable.


----------



## happyman64

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> ha ha..
> Just like 8 months of child support I never got, I wouldn't see this $28 again.
> 
> I think it is evil enough for her having to look on Sarah's facebook and see how good of a time Sarah and i had together on the trip she was supposed to go on.
> 
> She can stay home and be miserable.


Good for you!

Enjoy the trip and post a lot of pics....
:smthumbup:


----------



## 06Daddio08

Be careful posting pictures of your kids on websites.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Good point. Fixed..


----------



## Conrad

06Daddio08 said:


> Be careful posting pictures of your kids on websites.


Does the same apply to Facebook?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Good point.....!


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Conrad said:


> Does the same apply to Facebook?


Yes. There have been cases where one ex will take the other to court over posting photos of the children online. Websites, Facebook and the like.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Awesome news...

I have a second interview on an awesome job tomorrow. If I get this job and make it through probation I could have the pizzeria for sale in September then the girls and I can start our new life not being broke all the time.

I will also have more money to get the house ready to sell.

I'm so excited I'm almost bouncing.

I have to go and buy a new outfit for the interview. It wasn't until I tried on my suit before the interview that I realized that I was 200 lbs when I bought it in 2010 and now I'm 170.. so it was pretty baggy.

Finally some good news


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I had a good friend come in today to ask how I was.

I told I sting a little still but doing great.

He says.. I know you are doing great cause of your positive posts and pictures on Facebook. He said he could see a polar opposite of my life and L. Hers is crazy negative and a few times I guess she *****ed about me.

To hear that from him shows that I am going in the right direction to healing and she is wallowing in her own misery. If I keep going the way I am I will be great in a few months.

It was nice to have a positive response and he also said he and his family is there for me for anything I need. That was nice too.

WOW... today has been a good day


----------



## Conrad

Who is L?

Do I need to contact an admin?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

OMG... ok.... 

It was just really nice to have two nice things happen to me in two days.

Heck... the other thread your a part of he only talks about his ex.. why am I getting nailed to the cross for bringing up mine?


----------



## Conrad

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> OMG... ok....
> 
> It was just really nice to have two nice things happen to me in two days.
> 
> Heck... the other thread your a part of he only talks about his ex.. why am I getting nailed to the cross for bringing up mine?


Because his ex is engaging with him and thoughts of her are not preventing his life from moving forward.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Help.

Normally today would be when I get half my child support. L told me I won't get anymore until we get the money from our cashed in investment.

I told her that was unacceptable. 

I budget to that and for the last two months she has been making a payment each of her pays.

I told her we will be discussing this tomorrow at kid swap..

We have no agreement so does she really pay the same way like she has for the last two months..

I'm pissed.

I
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Help.
> 
> Normally today would be when I get half my child support. L told me I won't get anymore until we get the money from our cashed in investment.
> 
> I told her that was unacceptable.
> 
> I budget to that and for the last two months she has been making a payment each of her pays.
> 
> I told her we will be discussing this tomorrow at kid swap..
> 
> We have no agreement so does she really pay the same way like she has for the last two months..
> 
> I'm pissed.
> 
> I
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're in Canada. The government has guidelines that you can look up on the website for your province and go from there. Based on your custody and your incomes. You do have a lawyer once again, do you not?


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I am seeing the lawyer on Thursday. He cancelled on me once.

I just can't believe that after paying me like clockwork for the past two months that she just changes when she pays.

I do not have custody yet and she is just paying an amount she told me she would pay.

I want to tell her that her financial troubles are not my concern and she is putting other things in front of her children's well being.

I'm thinking about pulling around front from where she is parks and leave the children in the car while I discuss this with her.

I have a feeling she won't even role down her window for me.


----------



## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I am seeing the lawyer on Thursday. He cancelled on me once.
> 
> I just can't believe that after paying me like clockwork for the past two months that she just changes when she pays.
> 
> I do not have custody yet and she is just paying an amount she told me she would pay.
> 
> I want to tell her that her financial troubles are not my concern and she is putting other things in front of her children's well being.
> 
> *I'm thinking about pulling around front from where she is parks and leave the children in the car while I discuss this with her.*
> 
> I have a feeling she won't even role down her window for me.


Other than getting into a huge fight that you children will see, what will this prove?? Never discuss anything to do with money while the children are around. 

What is the current custody arrangement? The thing is this, you (especially as a father) want to do everything you can to get best Status Quo, before it goes to court.


----------



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

NO.. pull around front so the children DO NOT see us discuss this.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Currently the kids stay with me and she is paying $350 a month in 2 $175 payment twice a month.

Now she says she is not giving me anything until the investment money comes in which could be next month.


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> NO.. pull around front so the children DO NOT see us discuss this.


Time for talking is over Jason, you are dropping your girls off to see her right?



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Currently the kids stay with me and she is paying $350 a month in 2 $175 payment twice a month.
> 
> Now she says she is not giving me anything until the investment money comes in which could be next month.


Is she physically handing you this money or is it being direct deposited? If you are the primary caregiver of the children with her being a "weekend mom" then what does the federal (or provincial, depending what Province you are in) say she pays?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Custody is she sees them from 10am to 8:30pm on Saturday.

The court order in the first time through court was 9am to 8:30 pm


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Custody is she sees them from 10am to 8:30pm on Saturday.
> 
> The court order in the first time through court was 9am to 8:30 pm


You play two roles, a divorcing husband and a father. Which role do you think is most important for your girls right now, when they are off to see mom for one day?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Right now I don't have a true measurement of her income. I would need the court to request a paystub from her. 

Her $350 is less than the tabled amount per month but when in court you can pay more but not agree to pay less. The court will top me up.

She places the money in a joint account and I give her a written receipt for each payment. I did to show that she has agreed to pay child support and that will hopefully help me for custody.

There was no set day of the month for the payment. She has just been paying half on each of her pay days and that is every two weeks.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

06Daddio08 said:


> You play two roles, a divorcing husband and a father. Which role do you think is most important for your girls right now, when they are off to see mom for one day?


I see a woman that only paid child support for two months and got off 7 months without paying a dime.

She is in control by holding the money back from me. I'm not going to take it.

She has no idea that I am seeing and lawyer. I have kept this very quiet.

She agreed to pay by paying a certain way each month and now she is breaking the deal.


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Right now I don't have a true measurement of her income. I would need the court to request a paystub from her.
> 
> Her $350 is less than the tabled amount per month but when in court you can pay more but not agree to pay less. The court will top me up.
> 
> She places the money in a joint account and I give her a written receipt for each payment. I did to show that she has agreed to pay child support and that will hopefully help me for custody.
> 
> There was no set day of the month for the payment. She has just been paying half on each of her pay days and that is every two weeks.


Do you directly hand her the written receipt?


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I see a woman that only paid child support for two months and got off 7 months without paying a dime.
> 
> She is in control by holding the money back from me. I'm not going to take it.
> 
> She has no idea that I am seeing and lawyer. I have kept this very quiet.
> 
> She agreed to pay by paying a certain way each month and now she is breaking the deal.


You say nothing to her as it will not change a thing. You do not leak the lawyer information and you allow your kids to have a peaceful day and you do it for them. Going at her when she's about to have your children will not change anything but create more drama that your daughters do not have to go through, if father holds his ground.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yes... I keep a carbon copy for myself. They go in my binder for my lawyer to show her payment pattern.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Should I wait until she is about to leave..or just make a note of it for my lawyer. I have a timeline of her behaviour that I print out as event happen.

I also have an app that allows me to print off her texts. This was by text tonight.

She is angry because of the $600 bill I gave her for half of Sarah's dental bill on Tuesday.


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Should I wait until she is about to leave..or just *make a note of it for my lawyer*. I have a timeline of her behaviour that I print out as event happen.
> 
> I also have an app that allows me to print off her texts. This was by text tonight.
> 
> She is angry because of the $600 bill I gave her for half of Sarah's dental bill on Tuesday.


As I've said, you say nothing tomorrow. Nothing will come of it and she will have to pay that money back, regardless of the medical bills for your daughter.

If she tries to bring something up, blame shifting, accusing, crying victim, you do not play the game, you say nothing. Well, other than "I am not okay talking about this in front of the children" and repeat it.

Doesn't matter what she says or threatens, you kiss your girls goodbye and leave.

What does this accomplish? Firstly, you are not showing your hand, emotional or underlying (aka lawyer) AND without you knowing it, you show your children who's actually in control of themselves.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You know... your right.

By fighting with her she wins and ends up in control . Bruce (my therapist) is teaching me to not allow her to get or control the situations with me.

Using my THREE POWER WORDS from Bruce to assess the situation I am:

Right now I am ALLOWING Lisa to make me angry

I am LETTING Lisa get under my skin

I PERMIT Lisa's behaviour to bother me.

*From these three statements I am not in control. I need to:*

I cannot ALLOW Lisa to upset me.

By seeing the Lawyer I will not LET Lisa to continue this behaviour.

By Seeing the lawyer I will not PERMIT Lisa to get away with paying when she feels like it.


Just like a have been taught.. I need to stay in control and blowing my top is not in control.

Just like you and Bruce said. Get out of the car, kiss the children goodbye and wish them a good day.

When I get angry with Lisa I should hand my phone off to someone so that I don't text or email her.

I was so angry I was shaking.


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## 06Daddio08

Using that method seems to be working for you, allowing you to see things differently. That's great. A lot more damage can be done by losing your cool.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

It is just a coping mechanism...

I let Lisa control things for so many years. I need a way to look at the situation and assess whether I'm in control of the situation


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> *It is just a coping mechanism...*
> 
> I let Lisa control things for so many years. I need a way to look at the situation and assess whether I'm in control of the situation


It's not 'just' a coping mechanism, it's a tool to reshape your life in a healthy manner and there are various ways to do it. This one works for you and that's a good thing. One day you may start to use another way of looking at the world to further yourself, to keep growing.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Very true.

I'm still upset this morning but I am not going to confront her. I will let the paperwork from the lawyer speak for me.


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## 06Daddio08

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Very true.
> 
> I'm still upset this morning but I am not going to confront her. I will let the paperwork from the lawyer speak for me.


Good luck on the swap!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thanks.. 

But she thinks I'm going to confront her cause I told her. With me not confronting her after telling her I would, isn't that reinforcing her behaviour?


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## Wazza

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thanks..
> 
> But she thinks I'm going to confront her cause I told her. With me not confronting her after telling her I would, isn't that reinforcing her behaviour?


This is where you need legal advice.

Keep clear records of payments. Advise her in writing what you believe should be required. Then ask the court to make her pay up her arrears.

But I am not a lawyer, so I can't say whether this is sound advice legally.


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## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Thanks..
> 
> But she thinks I'm going to confront her cause I told her. With me not confronting her after telling her I would, isn't that reinforcing her behaviour?


Who cares what she thinks. The lawyer will take care of it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Good point.

I'm off to drop them off.

Get out.. Kiss the kids and tell them to have a great day.

Shut my mouth..get in the car and leave.


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## FlyingThePhoenix

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Good point.
> 
> I'm off to drop them off.
> 
> Get out.. Kiss the kids and tell them to have a great day.
> 
> Shut my mouth..get in the car and leave.


But just in case she does want to talk to you. Make sure you have a VAR with you, just in case she decides to push you around. Just a thought!.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Well. this morning she didn't get out of her car.. I got out, hugged the kids and told them to have a good day before I got in my car and left.

Tonight I was in the pizzeria, she said bye to the kids and sent them in. I didn't even see her.

According to Sarah, L is applying for a second job that would be on her visitation day. I have no problem switching days to sunday..but..

That income would be added to her present job when it comes to figuring out child support.


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## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: My Wife Left Last Tuesday*



Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Well. this morning she didn't get out of her car.. I got out, hugged the kids and told them to have a good day before I got in my car and left.
> 
> Tonight I was in the pizzeria, she said bye to the kids and sent them in. I didn't even see her.
> 
> According to Sarah, L is applying for a second job that would be on her visitation day. I have no problem switching days to sunday..but..
> 
> That income would be added to her present job when it comes to figuring out child support.


Do not offer a switch, let her come to you.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Yep... Sarah said " I didn't tell you this".

I won't be saying anything. I'm more concerned to have everything ready for the lawyer appointment.


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## HappyKaty

Happy Father's Day, Dad! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Thank you .. I think I'm doing a great job.

This was my post on my Facebook page and 50 people liked it. I was beside myself:

*Well.. I have been a full time dad on my own for 11 months tomorrow. I have stepped up to the plate, my kids didn't go without, I didn't lose the house or the business as someone predicted.

So to that I'm saying that I think I am an awesome Dad... I get hugs and kisses from my girls all the time, no one has to yell, everything gets done, we have lots of fun doing things.

So today is the day I pat myself on the back and say...Dude.. you have done a great job and have great kids because of it....Happy Father's Day to me...*


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

L and Sarah and I are on the same phone plan. I asked Lisa to take me off and migrate me to another account with Sarah.

She hasn't paid her half of the phone bill in 2 months. I can't have my phone cut off as it is my contact number on my resumes.

She says she has no money until the investment money comes..

Now.. I might have no phone and no child support.

GRRRRRRR

Any ideas on how to handle this?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Great news when I got home from teh field trip. I got the job I had two interviews for.

I am now an assistant cost estimator for a large automotive supply company. I am so happy.

i made sure I took lots of pictures on the field trip yesterday and tagged Sarah so she could see how good of a day I had.

If i tag Sarah, L can see the pictures 

Today I sent her and updated list of all the funds she owes including child support, dental costs, medication costs for sarah, cell phone that I have been paying on.

I keep a running total every week so she doesn't $crew me out of the money she is supposed to be paying for the children.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

By the way... what happened to Conrad?


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## HappyKaty

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> If i tag Sarah, L can see the pictures


At the risk of coming off as a total b*tch, I have to ask you...

Do you think the pictures will have any effect on your STBXW? Clearly, the woman has no worries - other than that investment money, of course.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

The reason i did thins one in particular was:

Last Tuesday she told my daughter she couldn't afford the $28 to go on a school trip she promised her 2 months ago. A few less trips to McDonald's (which she does for work lunches) and she could have made her daughter happy. Sarah cried really bad when L cancelled..

L didn't know I then went in her place.

I posted the pics so she could see that I went in place of her and Sarah can count on me..and less on her.

Very nasty but after she has treated me over the last year.. she needs to be upset about letting her daughter down again.

It's ok with me for you to say anything you want. I don't judge.


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## HappyKaty

I don't disagree with you, but based on her past actions, I just find it hard to believe she will feel an ounce of remorse.


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## GutPunch

Are you taking advantage of the fact that Conrad is banned to continue to talk and focus on the L word. He will be back and he will make you pay.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Whether it does or not... all her friends and family get to see that I try the best I can to be the best dad I can be.

While we were at the park sarah said to me.. "mom would just stand here and not even try a ride with us..she wouldn't be any fun anyways"

Of course I just let that one go..but it is not the first comment she has made this week about L.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

Why would he get banned.. I enjoyed his input.

As a non L subject.I have a date with another lady Thursday night and I'm very excited. 

So with a new job, a date, racing on Saturday and my staff almost all worked out to cover the pizzeria while I\m at my new job.... life is looking pretty good right now..


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## HappyKaty

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Whether it does or not... all her friends and family get to see that I try the best I can to be the best dad I can be.


That's all great, even though I'm sure they already know.

But, you're not going to be able to move on until you put L behind you - the thoughts, the anger, the sadness, the jabs, everything. Any dating will prove to be a waste of time until you rid yourself of the proverbial hold that L has on you. Trust me...I tried it, and failed miserably.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

You are right... I can't cover that up and Conrad would have me nailed to a cross right now.

I hope that I find a lady that will rock my world (not sexual) and I will forget all the bad things that L did to me.


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## HappyKaty

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> You are right... I can't cover that up and Conrad would have me nailed to a cross right now.
> 
> I hope that I find a lady that will rock my world (not sexual) and I will forget all the bad things that L did to me.


I'm a firm believer that the best way to get over someone, is to get under someone else.  Just kidding...kinda.

No woman is going to make you get over L. You have to do that for yourself. You can start by loving yourself and realizing that she isn't worthy of your love.


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## Tron

Congratulations Jason on the new job!


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

I see a light finally. Even though this pizzeria wasn't a dream job, it was 8 years of my life, long hours to make the sales what they are today...but

Deep inside I wasn't to my potential. Next Monday I'm walking into a fresh new job where my intellect is king over using my hands and voice.

I will honestly say I am knocking down everything L said i wasn't when she left:

1. She said I never had a position that she knew that the bills would be paid.
- I am now going to be make $7.50 more dollars an hours than her and if she would have stuck it out a few more months so would have had everything looked after.
Check 1 for Jay

2. You will bankrupt the business in 3 months.
- It has been 11 months and I have never missed a payment and there is money in the business account
Check 2 for Jay

3. Within two months you will drop the kids off at my house cause you won't be able to raise them on your own.
- Well you guys know how I did with that one
Check 3 for Jay

4. You didn't give me a house that I could be proud of and be able to entertain in.
-The roof almost done, the bathroom is done, most of the kitchen is done, the new upstairs bedroom are next week.
Check 4 for Jay

5. I know she thinks I will grow old alone like my dad did after my mom left 31 years ago.
- I will not grow old alone because I have lots to offer someone. I'm handy, I take care of myself, I'm a good dad, I'm great with money (now) and I have a bright future with a great company
Check 5 for Jay

I have stuck to my therapy, use his techniques all the time and my life has improved 10 fold.


This week, therapy tomorrow, Lawyer and date Thursday.... looking forward to the weekend.


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## happyman64

Great news about the job Jason!

:smthumbup:


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## BWBill

_1. She said I never had a position that she knew that the bills would be paid.
- I am now going to be make $7.50 more dollars an hours than her and if she would have stuck it out a few more months so would have had everything looked after.
Check 1 for Jay

2. You will bankrupt the business in 3 months.
- It has been 11 months and I have never missed a payment and there is money in the business account
Check 2 for Jay

3. Within two months you will drop the kids off at my house cause you won't be able to raise them on your own.
- Well you guys know how I did with that one
Check 3 for Jay

4. You didn't give me a house that I could be proud of and be able to entertain in.
-The roof almost done, the bathroom is done, most of the kitchen is done, the new upstairs bedroom are next week.
Check 4 for Jay

5. I know she thinks I will grow old alone like my dad did after my mom left 31 years ago.
Check 5 for Jay_



6. You'll never get over me.


When do we get the check for that one?


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## catcalls

sounds like you are loving yourself more. that is great. also, you have a great sense of vindication which makes you want to (for want of a better word) gloat about how well you have done. bravo to you. 

will your new job affect how much child support she has to pay, or does it not matter.

you now should focus on getting the legal stuff done and stop thinking about her altogether. you should actively work on focusing on yourself and your kids. you have both been through a horrible period and now you are coming out of it. just enjoy yourself and dont let her drag you down with petty arguments or emotional blackmail.

personally i think your wife has always had some form of contempt for you. the more you did for her and more you forgave her indiscretions, the more she thought she was better than you and belittled you,.

living well is the best revenge.


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## wilderness

You, sir, are an inspiration to us all. You have a good nature that really shines through in your posts. 
God bless you and your daughters.

What a story.


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## GutPunch

Somebody's doing better!


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Sounds like things are really looking up! Status update soon?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls

5 Year Update:

I went on a few dates over the years but they just didn't fit what i was looking for. I decided 2 years ago to just focus on myself and my kids.

My kids and i then went on a bunch of trips to Nascar races, concerts, road trips, educational trips.... both my children are now musicians playing multiple instruments 

I went to court and got custody of my children. The government has already suspended my ex's license twice for not paying her child support. She is still with the guy she left me for.

My ex declared bankruptcy and stuck me with all of the debt left from the family and pizzeria. I am paying as it's the right thing to do. I did buy my ex's portion of the equity on the house from her bankruptcy trustee.

The best news. A wonderful lady messaged me about 3 months ago and after talking for weeks on end, we have started a wonderful relationship. Her children have blended wonderful with my kids.

She has become my new best friend. Next week we are going as a new blended family camping ... I'm so excited..

Good things come for those who wait.  I will keep you all updated.


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## Tron




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## Rosemary's Granddaughter

That is a wonderful update! I think it's great that you focused on your girls, and yourself, for a good while. Very healthy! Best wishes for your new relationship!


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## ReturntoZero

Dadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> I see a light finally. Even though this pizzeria wasn't a dream job, it was 8 years of my life, long hours to make the sales what they are today...but
> 
> Deep inside I wasn't to my potential. Next Monday I'm walking into a fresh new job where my intellect is king over using my hands and voice.
> 
> I will honestly say I am knocking down everything L said i wasn't when she left:
> 
> 1. She said I never had a position that she knew that the bills would be paid.
> - I am now going to be make $7.50 more dollars an hours than her and if she would have stuck it out a few more months so would have had everything looked after.
> Check 1 for Jay
> 
> 2. You will bankrupt the business in 3 months.
> - It has been 11 months and I have never missed a payment and there is money in the business account
> Check 2 for Jay
> 
> 3. Within two months you will drop the kids off at my house cause you won't be able to raise them on your own.
> - Well you guys know how I did with that one
> Check 3 for Jay
> 
> 4. You didn't give me a house that I could be proud of and be able to entertain in.
> -The roof almost done, the bathroom is done, most of the kitchen is done, the new upstairs bedroom are next week.
> Check 4 for Jay
> 
> 5. I know she thinks I will grow old alone like my dad did after my mom left 31 years ago.
> - I will not grow old alone because I have lots to offer someone. I'm handy, I take care of myself, I'm a good dad, I'm great with money (now) and I have a bright future with a great company
> Check 5 for Jay
> 
> I have stuck to my therapy, use his techniques all the time and my life has improved 10 fold.
> 
> 
> This week, therapy tomorrow, Lawyer and date Thursday.... looking forward to the weekend.


When the ship gets righted, the path grows wide and the future brightens - as you feel your personal power returning.

Nothing you're telling us now wasn't apparent in this post.


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