# Women and orgasms



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Need a woman's perspective here! First some background though...

So this earlier month me and my wife agreed to start increasing our intimacy frequency. Our normal average was about once a week and over the last 2 weeks we've had sex 6 times, so I'm a very happy man at the moment! 

HOWEVER, my wife has only come to orgasm *once* out of those 6 times. I can tell she's frustrated afterwards, and she goes to sleep with that on her shoulders despite me trying to get her to open up and communicate about it to see if there's something we can change for her. She doesn't really want to talk about it, says "she's fine" and "doesn't have to get off every time"... but I can tell she's frustrated at the moment regardless of what she says.

She really only has one way she likes to orgasm, and it's when she's on top of me riding "cowgirl" – and she usually gets off in that position. But like I said she's only gotten off once lately despite doing this position every time. Could it be that once every week was enough time off for her body to get back to orgasm mode and now with increased frequency it's changed the game on her? I offer up some alternative ideas for her like "maybe next time I finger you all the way until you get off instead of stopping to get on top of me" but she's not really into exploring that idea it seems.

My wife is slightly introverted (not selfish, but not a proactive explorer - kinda shy). So I'm finding it hard to get her to open up her mind to sexuality freedom beyond the standard vanilla positions. I know it's going to take her time, but my concern is that the more frequently we are having sex and she doesn't come to orgasm, the more frustrated she'll get with the increased frequency of sex.

Any ideas what's going on with my wife? Any recommendations for me to change things up so I can try to get her off? I'm very concerned about her happiness too, I don't want sex to always be a one way street with me just getting off... I want her to get as much out of this experience too. I asked her last night if maybe she's starting to over-think too much about getting an orgasm and she say "I don't know, maybe".

FYI - The next day her mood does seem to be fine, as if she's "over it" - but in the back of my mind the issue is still there and I think it needs attention. I don't want to let it go without attention to the issue, but I certainly don't want to keep pressing it either like a broken record and thus pushing her away.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

What are you doing before you even get in to making love? Did you increase your non-sexual intimacy - affection and conversation - as well as increase your sexual intimacy? See, I am not really convinced that the big "O" is the end all and be all, but it can sure seem like it if there are not other intimate building things going on in the relationship.

Now, any reason why you can't take some more initiative in the foreplay department? Do you try and stimulate her manually and/or orally? Can you try some positions, such as spooning where you lay on your sides with you behind her and it leaves your arms and hands free to be able to stimulate her. You could also experiment with the CAT (Coital Alignment Technique - google it) position which is a missionary position with a different motion - grinding instead of up/down.

I think that women can be capable of orgasming more, but sometimes our bodies and minds can get in the way of it, and it can be somewhat draining to always focus on the end result. So, focus on all the wonderful points of the journey, without having so much of a focus on the "O" and see if that doesn't help. She may have some 'performance anxiety' about it.

Also consider what you do after sex. Being able to be close and cuddle and hold each other - talking intimately, can also be very helpful.

Best wishes.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Thank you Enchantment.



Enchantment said:


> What are you doing before you even get in to making love? Did you increase your non-sexual intimacy - affection and conversation - as well as increase your sexual intimacy?


Well I'm very affectionate with my wife, lots of kisses, hugs, "I love you's" pretty much on a daily basis. Also a quick tap on the ass occasionally, come up from behind her and kiss her neck a little. I also try to let her know she's appreciated around here in recognizing everything she does.

I've been doing a lot of reading since the new year and have been on a mission to change myself and be a better man and husband, and I've been communicating all this to her so she knows all the effort I've been making in doing so. She's appreciative of it. I think we communicate well, we're a good team and we love each other very much. We have full trust.

But I guess to answer the other part of your question, leading up to sex we did the usual foreplay routine - making out, kissing her neck and shoulder blades, licking on her breasts, fingering her and getting her primed and stimulated... which all seems to work well. It's just the finish – she can't seem to get there.



Enchantment said:


> Now, any reason why you can't take some more initiative in the foreplay department? Do you try and stimulate her manually and/or orally?


The problem is my wife doesn't want me to go down on her, despite me telling her my desires to over the past years. Since we've had 2 kids, she now uses an IUD for birth control and as a result there's a slight (but pretty constant) discharge and it grosses her out now to think about oral down there. I've expressed desire to work around it somehow but she doesn't even want to engage in the idea. So it's pretty much always fingering her... 



Enchantment said:


> Can you try some positions, such as spooning where you lay on your sides with you behind her and it leaves your arms and hands free to be able to stimulate her. You could also experiment with the CAT (Coital Alignment Technique - google it) position which is a missionary position with a different motion - grinding instead of up/down.


Good ideas, I may try these both out. I think we both could use a little kick getting out of the "vanilla mode" occasionally.

Thanks for your advice and best wishes, I really appreciate it.


----------



## timbre (Oct 3, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> I've been doing a lot of reading since the new year and have been on a mission to change myself and be a better man and husband, and I've been communicating all this to her so she knows all the effort I've been making in doing so. She's appreciative of it. I think we communicate well, we're a good team and we love each other very much. We have full trust.


If you don't mind... what has your reading list been? I need to pick up a few more books.

To actually relate to the topic... I was seeing this as well. I found that the more foreplay that I participated in the more consistant that the bit 'O' was. Get some massage oil... give her a good backrub... let her know that you are really interested in her and how much she turns you on... (just wash hands before playing down there after oils)

And most of all... LISTEN TO HER... if she says keep going and don't move.... DON'T MOVE... I'm still learning this one. Even if it means you get a cramp in a leg or something


----------



## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Have you ever suggested she get the IUD out and switch to a different form of birth control? Even condoms? Vasectomy if you're no longer interested in kids? 

Have you told her that her sexual satisfaction is as important as yours to you? If you were having sex six times in two weeks but only had an orgasm once would you want to have sex that much? Without having your wife be honest, it's awfully hard to address the problem. I don't think it's her body, although I'm sure her level of desire has something to do with it. Even if she's not having an orgasm she has to feel she is getting something out of the experience or she's definitely not going to want to keep it up (double entendre).


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Have you ever suggested she get the IUD out and switch to a different form of birth control? Even condoms? Vasectomy if you're no longer interested in kids?
> 
> Have you told her that her sexual satisfaction is as important as yours to you? If you were having sex six times in two weeks but only had an orgasm once would you want to have sex that much? Without having your wife be honest, it's awfully hard to address the problem. I don't think it's her body, although I'm sure her level of desire has something to do with it.


Yeah, we've been talking about the IUD lately. Even though we say we're done, she's still not 100% sure so she does NOT want me to have a vasectomy just yet. And she really hates the hormones in birth control pills and doesn't want to go back to those either. So the IUD is what she's most comfortable with in the time-being.

Yes, I do tell her that her sexual satisfaction is important to me. I told her recently that I "just wanted to work on her tonight" but she wasn't in the mood. Then another evening, I suggested that "we don't need to have penetration every time... intimacy doesn't always need to be sex"... trying to get her into thinking about foreplay only being just as much of a stimulant and satisfaction in a relationship. But her response was "But what's the point of that if no one is getting off?"



Trenton said:


> Even if she's not having an orgasm she has to feel she is getting something out of the experience or she's definitely not going to want to keep it up (double entendre).


I fully agree, and I think I've been trying to get her to open up more without pressuring her on it. Her satisfaction is VERY important to me, and I think she knows that... but she's a little too close-minded on sexuality or something.

I have a plan for her tonight though... I bought some coconut oil at the store. I'm going to setup some candles in the bedroom, put on some soft music, and give her a full body massage with the coconut oil - and I'm not going to let her say no. I'm going to pamper her tonight and not give her the option to back out of it!

For the grand finale, I was also thinking this... I have a sex toy that straps on to my penis and vibrates, with some bumps on it to stimulate the clitoris. Once I'm done pampering her with all the above, I was thinking about trying to get her off using the toy tonight. We haven't used it in a LONG time... could be a nice surprise.

Thoughts???


----------



## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Maybe I missed it...

But how's the clitoris stimulating when you two are together?

Just wondering.....


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

CantBeJustMe said:


> Maybe I missed it...
> 
> But how's the clitoris stimulating when you two are together?
> 
> Just wondering.....


I stimulate it during foreplay when fingering her, that gets her going and then she wants to get on top of me to try and finish off to orgasm. But then she's been "losing it" once she's actually in the process of riding me.

Last night I sensed she was about to lose the urge so I reached down with my finger and attempted to try and stimulate it for her while she was still going, but as soon as I did that she gave up and said "I lost it, you just finish..."


----------



## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I got to be honest here. If I said, "I've lost it, so you finish." My husband would lose it too. Even the idea that I wasn't fully enjoying myself would make him limp. Since I know this, I often enjoy it for what it is...intimacy with my husband...and don't consider focusing on the orgasm aspect.

My advice to you from the scenario you proposed, and this is really advice that would work with me so I've no real idea if it would work with your wife, is to offer the massage without turning it sexual. Work on building intimacy that focuses on her and how she feels alone. Don't massage her and then whip out a vibrating dildo. 

Men and women have very different sexuality. The best sexual relationship with your partner will be more about a generalized accepted give and take. The partners have to want to satisfy the other on their terms. To do this you have to watch and pay attention to what is satisfying to the other. 

So basically, the two of you may not climax each time you have sex. Maybe you will be alone in your orgasm but if you build up the intimacy in your relationship she will be there cheering you on, enjoying what she is making happen to you and that pleasure alone will create immense pleasure for both. 

Later on, as you relax and massage her or fulfill her needs in other areas of her life, you will sit back and not get anything from these events besides the satisfaction that you are creating those feelings within her.

My point is that sexuality and happiness within the marriage comes from an overall atmosphere where both partners' needs are being met. You falter in other areas and she will let you know by vocalizing her disappointment with her lack of orgasm or acting as if sex is a chore. It's my opinion, that if this is happening she is not feeling overall satisfaction with the relationship, possibly in totally unrelated areas from sex itself.

Sometimes this has nothing to do with you though. It could be her work load or feelings about herself. If you recognize what it is, you can work to get her to a better place which will in turn get you both to a better place.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, last night fell apart. 

I was gonna take your advice Trenton and not pursue the "grand finale" with sex, as I thought it made a ton of sense and you were right... it's all about trying to give her pleasure in *other* ways and not necessarily about reaching the big "O".

So I planned my whole elaborate massage as a surprise and got all the items ready - put the ipod speakers, candles, coconut oil, and some towel all hidden in my drawer so she wouldn't see them in the room when we went up to the bedroom. I even spent the day making a new Pandora station with Marvin Gaye type music for the session, making sure to "thumbs up" all the nice slow songs and "thumbs down" all the ones a little too fast - trying to perfect the station for the evening. And then when she got home all I told her was that "I have something special planned for her tonight, so we have to go to bed at a decent hour so she's not tired."

Well, bed time rolled around and she thought it was sex I wanted, so she started being resistant and telling me how tired she was and she just wanted to watch TV. I tried to persuade her without revealing the surprise but the problem with not revealing the surprise was leading her more and more into thinking I wanted to have sex. It was actually becoming too intense of a discussion, so I finally had to ruin the surprise and tell her what the plan was to ease up the situation. And I told her it wasn't even about sex tonight, I just wanted to do something just for her and make her happy.

She felt like sh*t afterwards, she had some tears... very apologetic. She told me I could give her one tonight instead, but I don't know... my heart is slightly crushed right now and it feels like it would only be a fraction of how special it was supposed to be originally now that she knows about it.

I'll probably give it to her anyway, because she deserves to be happy still... but I definitely feel an emptiness inside about the whole thing now.


----------



## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Bottled Up said:


> Well, last night fell apart.
> 
> I was gonna take your advice Trenton and not pursue the "grand finale" with sex, as I thought it made a ton of sense and you were right... it's all about trying to give her pleasure in *other* ways and not necessarily about reaching the big "O".
> 
> ...


Now you know your entire problem. She believes it's all about sex and all about sex that you enjoy while she's not enjoying it.

Neither of you have done anything wrong. This is a problem with communication and misunderstanding about the needs of one another.

If you want to end that cycle you have to re-build intimacy and stop making it about sex. I'm not suggesting you ignore your needs entirely, but you be honest and open about them, take hers into consideration and ask her to be honest with you and make sure that you build plenty of massages, little gifts, thoughtful conversations, acts of service, etc. into the mix of your relationship. 

Once intimacy is there, start to have more conversations about sex, why it's so important to you, how making love to her brings you closer to her...build passion back into the relationship.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Bottled Up ~

I'm sorry it didn't work out last night. But, I'm not really surprised, I guess.

I always need a 'transition' period when I get home or move from one mode to another - like I'll need a few minutes by myself if there's been a hectic dinner and clean-up that I've had to do, etc..

My H has been learning all these many years about me, and seems to understand this now. He maintains connection with me throughout the day to tease, flirt, lightly touch, talk throughout the day - and with no expectation. (It takes awhile for a wife to get to the point where she understands there's no expectation if there has been a lot of expectation and pressure before.) He gives me the time and space that I need to go from one thing to another.

So, many nights we are laying on the sofa together drowsily watching TV and we start to massage each other or hold each other's hands, and there already feels like a connection there ... because we were connected throughout the day.

On days when we are both super busy and there isn't that much contact, I will admit that it can be harder for me.

The other thing is - you wanted to do something special just for your wife without expectation. And she immediately thought of the expectation of sex and was put on edge.

Do you know what her 'love language' is? For instance, if physical touch is not her love language, a massage may not 'speak' to her and may make her feel pressured. A massage would be you speaking to her in your 'love language', not speaking to her in hers.

If she is a quality time person, maybe she would have enjoyed you setting up a movie night at home with a new movie she's been wanting to see, with pizza and popcorn at the ready.

If she's an act of service person, maybe she would have enjoyed you finishing some task on your to-do list and cooking her a wonderful dinner.

If she's a gift person, maybe she would have been impressed with the sound of soft music playing when she got home, with a box of her favorite chocolates sitting out for her.

Don't get too discouraged. Instead, use it as an opportunity to learn more about your wife - what it is she likes and dislikes. Use it an opportunity to study her and her reactions so you can get closer to her - find what 'speaks' to her. 

Best wishes.


----------



## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

What Enchantment said is what I meant to say. You have to figure out what she does enjoy rather than what you would enjoy and it's true she might have enjoyed the massage, but wouldn't let herself because she felt it was going to turn into more you time.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Enchantment and Trenton, thank you both for taking time to offer some insight here - it is much appreciated. 

I really feel I do engage with my wife in all the areas you're referring to. I'm very attentive with her and our relationship daily - slight touches of affection, kisses, hugs, telling her how beautiful she is, doing more than my fair share around the home, cooking more dinners during the week than she does, and we're in contact w/ each other every day whether it be text or phone call. I'm most definitely pulling out all the stops I should be as a man and a husband, but also making sure I don't overdo it in each area - trying to keep a good balance of meeting needs without becoming a doormat in the process. We have mutual respect for each other because we are a good team, that I truly feel is mutual.

But I think you're right... maybe the last 2 weeks I've been more fixated on increasing the frequency of sex rather than realizing the importance of understand needs more intimately. To me, increasing our frequency I thought might help bring our bond a little closer and therefore create a natural spark of desire to become intimate more frequently, like a snowball effect. Like the more you have sex, the more you feel closer. And I guess the reason why I have been fixated only on sex frequency is because I really feel like we have a happy marriage in every other area of the relationship.

Maybe I just need to be a little more patient – And I do need to read up and see if I can discover her love language too. Perhaps I am in fact targeting some wrong areas, or not coming up with enough ideas to build more intimate moments without expectation. I'll keep reading I guess.

I don't know. It's frustrating. I feel like I do know my wife very well, treat her very well, and try to do so much for her already though... and I've been making all these efforts trying to "figure her out" lately. It would be nice to see her take the same interest I have like finding a site like TAM and asking questions and reading relationship books, etc. She plays freecell on her iphone to get herself tired in bed (on sexless nights) while I'm sitting there next to her reading a book about relationships on my iphone.


----------



## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Bottled Up said:


> Enchantment and Trenton, thank you both for taking time to offer some insight here - it is much appreciated.
> 
> I really feel I do engage with my wife in all the areas you're referring to. I'm very attentive with her and our relationship daily - slight touches of affection, kisses, hugs, telling her how beautiful she is, doing more than my fair share around the home, cooking more dinners during the week than she does, and we're in contact w/ each other every day whether it be text or phone call. I'm most definitely pulling out all the stops I should be as a man and a husband, but also making sure I don't overdo it in each area - trying to keep a good balance of meeting needs without becoming a doormat in the process. We have mutual respect for each other because we are a good team, that I truly feel is mutual.
> 
> ...


It's possible that it's not you at all. Hard to tell on an internet forum, you know? It's also possible that's she's disengaged with her life in general and is just passing time. If that's the case, she has to get herself re-engaged and re-ignite what she is passionate about in life before she can re-connect with you. She may not be disconnected from you as much as she is disconnected in general with what makes her happy & excited.

It's also possible she's not like you and so would not look to the same outlets to get help. I can tell you flat out that my husband would never, ever be found reading books on relationships or seeking help on an internet forum for relationships. It's not him at all.


----------



## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

I know, this isn't about orgasms anymore but I thought you ladies would like to hear some closure on this thread...

I'm happy to report that I gave the massage another go on Saturday night and my wife absolutely loved it! :smthumbup:

It took me the better part of the day to get over my angst over the big let-down the night before, but I finally sucked it up and talked myself into calming down. Even though the surprise was gone I still managed to make it special. I actually played off of the disastrous let down from the night before and wrote a whole script of "ground rules" to recite to my wife when she got in the bed. For your reading pleasure, here's the dialogue I read:

_*"1) This massage is all about you, just you, and only you. This is not about sex... so please toss out any thoughts of ulterior motives and just clear your mind to enjoy simply a pampering made for you.

2) You are naked and I am highly attracted to you. This may result in an occasional erection but please ignore this, it is completely normal behavior and does not mean I have ulterior motives for this pampering.

3) You may hear the occasional Pandora radio commercial. I apologize for this inconvenience, as I'm a cheap bastard and refuse to pay for the ad-free service.

4) I am not a professional masseuse... I may need your guidance along the way if you are not enjoying something, so I can learn what pleases you. My hope is perhaps we can make this a weekly scheduled pampering for you if you enjoy the experience.

But last and most importantly, relax your body, enjoy my touch, and know that I love you deeply and your happiness is incredibly important to me."*_

So yeah, needless to say the evening went off without a hitch and it was a wonderful experience for us both. She got a no-strings-attached pampering of love and I got to experience every curve and tone of her body with my eyes and hands. It was fantastic, and damn right I plan on making this a weekly thing for her.

Oh and she was so turned on that we had sex afterwards anyway, but she totally initiated it not me! And no, she didn't even try to orgasm... she just wanted me in her I think.

Damn I love my wife... our life.


----------



## SimonLLL (Jan 29, 2012)

Bottled up -sorry, latecomer(!) on this one.

It could be that you are trying a bit too hard. She knows what you're reading at night - so there's extra pressure there. Always trying to make it better doesn't always lead to better quality love-making in that oh-so-important erogenous zone: the brain!

Back off a little. Read something more 'entertaining' in bed. 

She's probably feeling overwhelmed by the expectation but too polite/meek to say so.

I understand about choice of contraception. Does the IUD have a chemical barrier, like a spermicide, incorporated in to it? She may be having a small reaction to this which is desensitising (I'm guessing here).

OK - and I just read your recent success story, but I hope something of my comment helps!!:smthumbup:


----------



## SimonLLL (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh - and...

Maybe try something a little different each week. Have some fun with it.

Meet separately at a bar & bistro and pretend to be strangers, as it were, meeting for the first time and then keen to discover all about each other.

You've had some other great suggestions, but maybe a chick-flick night for her with wine and chocs while you go out somewhere and leave her to it.

If she's had a rough day, run a scented bath for her before the massage.

Order gourmet food in and pretend you're at a posh restaurant, with candles etc.

All with no expectation other than you outlined in your success story.

All said, I'm bloody happy for you both. She's a lucky lady - there are not too many like you out there!


----------



## nightshift (Feb 4, 2012)

Bottled up,
So happy to read your last post. What a wonderful gift you gave her! As a woman, I would love for my husband to do something so selfless, thoughful, and sweet for me. Keep up the great work - it will bring so many benefits that you don't even expect!

As a side note, I have always had difficulty orgasming via sex, no matter what position. In fact, in the 20+ years I've been having sex, I've orgasmed from intercourse alone twice. I require alot of clitoral stimulation - to the point that I have to use a vibrator to get enough stimulation to orgasm at all. I have talked to my health care provider about this as well as a counselor - both assure me this is completely normal for women. May I suggest that you continue to use the vibrating ring/toy you mentioned during sex itself? There are so many varieties available if the one you currently have isn't a good fit. I highly recommend the vibrating bullet-type toys; she can control the speed and amount of stimulation the entire time which helps ensure she's not getting too little or too much vibration. 

I wish you continued success in improving your sex life with your wife!


----------

