# My man is still hiding stuff - please confirm



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I have written my story, a couple of threads, so I will try not to repeat it here but there wil be some overlap so apologies. 

My man says he only slept with his ex 4 times (2,3,4,9 months into our relationship - Dec 2009-July 2010) and that was it....but...

DD was May last year (2011). He chatted and talked with all I needed for a couple of weeks/months but that was it. In June I came to the question of why? Why did the 4th (and most hurtful) f*ck happen? What triggered it? And why did it end there? What made it end...why didn't it just carry on? At this point, he went quiet, thoughtful, no answers. When he did answer he said he didn't want to be that person anymore, didn't like her anymore, love for me and him in turmoil etc. He said something though, it is the only time he has ever said it, he said that he thought he would just see her every 6 months or so and that it wouldn't matter. He could separate the 2. His 'last' f*ck was 5 months after the one before so that didn't really make sense...quite, but what I suspect is pretty much 6 months after the 'final' one. 6 months after would have been January, and he went cold on me in January last year. I also believe there was another occasion, just before he told me and 'came clean'. The reasons I suspect are as follows:

He went cold on me in January. He went away for a week and when he returned (we don't live together, both have children, and spend 'all' our 'free' time together) I picked him up to come back to my house, he was not as ecstatic to see me as I thought he would be, we had sex, and that was it. He returned on the Sunday, he didn't want to have sex again Sunday night, Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. He came back on our free weekend, and now, from Weds night, it was the long weekend without each other as we had our children.I would not see him again til the following Monday. I 'forced' myself upon him on the Tuesday as I could handle the frustration no longer. He also had an attack of nasty behaviour. He avoided cuddling with me on that Thursday morning after the Weds night by calling his daughter up for cuddles (for 20 mins) in the morning after telling me there was no time for any as we had to get up for school and work. All these things were the same patterns of behaviour he had while he was cheating on me the previous year. Cold, unloving, no interest in sex, nasty behaviour. As it came out later, he bumped into his ex on the bus around this time. He also says she tried to encourage a meet after the bus contact, he received her text, replied to mundane, she requested a meet (in less words), and he ignored her...apparently. Now, would he really display all these behaviours just by bumping into her on the bus? If he was still in love with her then could these behaviours come out just by bumping into her? If he still loved her (and he loved me too by this point...mostly), would he be able to resist her, especially considering his past infidelities? 

Following that, the spare room that no-one slept in (it used to be his room, he slept with her...and me...in there) suddenly had the bed sheets made up (around Feb, March-April 2011). Duvet cover and pillow slips. Yet no-one in there. I asked him about it and he said he was tidying his house up. He wanted to make it look better.

After DD (May 2011), in July I had a snoop in his house looking for her phone number or anything. I found bloody mopping up loo roll under the bed. It was not mine and his as it had (sorry for the graphic writing that is to follow) a black pubic hair in it - he is fair and up til then I was closely trimmed - and considering he had 'not had sex with her since the previous July' there was no dust on it. I wasn't looking for dust but I am sure I would have noticed it had there been a years worth on there, I think it would be pretty obvious. Also, no-one had used that bed since Christmas (and at Christmas it was a single person, before that, a couple to use it before that was me and him in about July-September the year before when he moved his bedroom up to the attic) And there was dust covering the room - but not the loo roll - , either side of the bed head, but there was no dust in the middle of the bed head (iron bed head). How could there be no dust on the middle when it was thick with dust all around? How could he be making the bed up to make the room look better (the spare room that was the dumping ground for clean folded clothes) and not dust the room too and tidy it up?

Since DD, after talking those first few weeks, and once we got to the stickng point, we have been in a circle of crap. I try to talk, he refuses, we split because I tell him I cannot continue with an unmentionable subject, he gets defensive and angry because I want to talk and he walks and we split, we get back together, he talks, then refuses again, and the cycle continues. He has always been a closed person, he is not open and so it is not in his nature to keep talking over the same old stuff, his mum says she is surprised he has stuck around, I believe he struggles with the talking, but I also believe his behaviour stinks of someone that is hiding something. Does anyone have experience of someone who is closed and yet honest? Closed and continues to be dedicated? He is definitely dedicated now, definitely, but I believe he is hiding the most painful stuff. I believe he saw his ex around the time of his holiday and again after that when his bed got made up.

I am going to end it here. I know there is more stuff, but I have been drinking and need to go to bed. I will fill in more tomorrow when there is a bit more clarity.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

With your find under the bed, it's clear that there has been another woman in his place.

Why are you putting yourself through this? You cannot trust him.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I once found an empty wine bottle under a boyfriend's bed. I then took stock of the condoms. A few weeks later took stock again to find even less condoms. That's all I needed for proof, really. When I confronted, he lied. I'm saying you already have your answer...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

he is no good and a liar and is cheating

move on or remain in your unhappy situation only for it to get worse. You need to understand you are where you are at because of yourself and your own decisions in life. If you are unhappy 9/10 its your own doing. There are exceptions say people being mistreated by others and forced against their will to do things. If you are not in that situation and you are say rather in a willing relationship that you put effort in only to be hurt back that is your own doing. Its rather sad it happens but you can leave at anytime and i think the logical thing to do would be to evaluate your situation/life and see and ask yourself if you are happy and if this is what you want.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes I agree with all posts. I have kept coming to the conclusion he is lying, he is keeping more stuff from me, but every time he has given me almost plausible explanations. I have believed for a while and then the nagging doubts come back. I have had time to think while he was away this week and I am convinced again. But this time, nothing he says or does will convince me otherwise. Writing down all my suspicions is not only about getting others opinions and confirmation, but also about putting every little thing down on 'paper' so that it is right there, 'obvious' staring me right in the face, reality all in one big acrid chunk, so that it is completely undeniable. I am ready to have it out with him on his return, I have accepted at the beginning of this week that we are over, and yet at the end of this week I am missing him. Though as I write down my all, I am feeling myself distancing again. Now, I know he is hiding more stuff (he suggested taking a lie detector to prove his innocence on his return...we will see if it comes to fruition) but the thing is, I know he loves me, I know he is no longer seeing the ex, me forcing the truth out of him was the catalyst I believe for him to not call her again (unless it did finish in July 2010 but I doubt it) I think he just cd not control the urge for the odd f*ck with her and he was getting away with it, like someone trying to give up smoking. Without taking his actions into consideration, we are really good together - family and friends say so, he is my absolute perfect man in every way, we get on really really well, make each other laugh, he is loving, he is helpful (i have not had that, someone who lifts a hand to help with whatever I am doing, someone who wants to do all things together), sex is ace, I absolutely fancy the pants off him, and he is a brilliant dad, and brilliant with my kids too. Also, since it all came out last May he has become absolutely dedicated to me, doesn't go out like he did, accepted I won't want him out to a party on his own, calls me twice every evening we are not together, texts me all the time, is transparent (obviously not quite enough though as he continues to lie to me I believe). So, my dilemma...I don't know whether to risk it and carry on with him knowing he has that weakness but has put things in place to avoid a situation, spend the rest of my life with him (as he says he wants to with me), or cut my losses and run, knowing that I will prob not find another I adore and get along with as well as I do him, I might find another man and he might cheat too, I can't imagine finding another who is as perfect as him, I love his ways, his attitude, his loving, his funny, his narky and moody ways, we really do have a very positive effect on each other in every day 'normal' life, we handle each other really well, his friends love me, my friends like him, his parents love me, my parents think we great together. It's a big dilemma....

I will continue on my reams of suspicions later tonight, people who read my thread will prob be frustrated I am even asking the question on the thread, I myself when faced with all in one undeniable hit will prob stop loving him and despise him (for a little or a long while) and will struggle to be normal and pleased to see him when he returns tomorrow. I have said several times that I know there is something else, to tell me or we finished. And so we finished. He has not come clean even though I have chipped away at him, finished with him - and deadly serious too, though obviously we have ended up back together. I will continue the stupid and painfully obvious suspicions later this evening....


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

...here goes...more...

Around the time of my suspicions, early last year, Feb, March, April time, his handcuffs moved several times in several weeks. He said he used them on himself. I cd imagine him doing that, but it don't seem too plausible really. Especially as they have been at my house for many months since, never used, and he hasn't taken them home either to use on himself. In his old bedroom they never moved.

Scratches on shoulder, last October I think (this is after DD, and when I believe he wasn't seeing anyone, but who knows), maybe later. Very nasty and deep, just on one shoulder. He works outside, gardening so he easily gets scratches, but it was winter so he would have been covered up. Where from? I asked. Don't know he said. He said he thought I did them! And that was just a few days, if that, after they appeared. But very deep gouges. And they did not look like something from gardening. They looked like fingernails. And months later, the scars still there. U wd know, absolutely know, how they appeared. The thing is, not long after this he came back one day with my name tattooed on his arm. He is not the type to do that, at all. So I felt more so following that that he had finally dedicated himself to me. But I am now wondering if this was another occasion of infidelity. They appeared after our long weekend without each other (Thursday-Tues, we spend Tues, Weds night together and every other weekend). 

He burnt a book she gave him when they were together, on his own volition. I didn't ask him. It had poems she wrote to him and photos of her, him, and them. Mostly erotic. He said he felt it was a cleansing process. Yet why, after a yr (supposedly) of not seeing her wd it be such major event for him. If what he said is true, that he did not love her in that time, and that the last time he slept with her was July of previous year, that he stopped seeing her because of an attack of conscience, he couldn't stand her on that final f*ck which was nearly a year before he burnt her stuff, why would it be a cleansing process? Surely, given those circumstances, it wouldn't have any effect whatsoever. Just a case of dumping some unwanted crap?

When we got to the sticking point in our talks, right at the beginning, on the question of why was there 5 months between 3rd & 4th occasion, what triggered it, why did it end? He wouldn't answer, stopped talking, clammed up, gave wishy washy answers, said just the once about maybe seeing her every 6 months, and then the anger and defensiveness began. And he would walk out. I told him I could be with him no longer if he wouldn't give me the answer to this, that I knew there was something he was hiding. He was 'happy' to end it, preferred to end rather than talk, and not once did he say to me, beg me, or plead, to please believe him, that he's telling the truth, that I must believe what he says etc. Not once.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains said:


> ...here goes...more...
> 
> Around the time of my suspicions, early last year, Feb, March, April time, his handcuffs moved several times in several weeks. He said he used them on himself. I cd imagine him doing that, but it don't seem too plausible really. Especially as they have been at my house for many months since, never used, and he hasn't taken them home either to use on himself. In his old bedroom they never moved.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains- you know my story, and from my own experience I have to think that he had been cheating all along
My WS also got a tattoo but that did not stop him. He hsf s moment of thinking it would and maybe that it would show me that he wanted to do the right thing, but if wedding band could not stop him why would I think a ratio would? As long as there is anger and you feel like he is trying to turn things around on you, he I'd still bring unfaithful. We have been at 11 days no contact, buy yesterday had a crazy arguement. It made me feel like there was a possibility that he might contact her, but not that he did. If you have no doubt in your heart, only you can decide if you want to live like that. I told myself and WS that this is it for me....last chance. I can't be the other woman in my own marriage...I refuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Remains- you know my story, and from my own experience I have to think that he had been cheating all along
> My WS also got a tattoo but that did not stop him. He hsf s moment of thinking it would and maybe that it would show me that he wanted to do the right thing, but if wedding band could not stop him why would I think a ratio would? As long as there is anger and you feel like he is trying to turn things around on you, he I'd still bring unfaithful. We have been at 11 days no contact, buy yesterday had a crazy arguement. It made me feel like there was a possibility that he might contact her, but not that he did. If you have no doubt in your heart, only you can decide if you want to live like that. I told myself and WS that this is it for me....last chance. I can't be the other woman in my own marriage...I refuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sorry about the spelling...darn phone typing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks Looking. I think you are right. I have believed that he has had no contact with her since it all came out, esp since the tattoo. His loving and dedication have been consistent...but the more I think about those scratches on his shoulder, the more I believe they are from another woman. 

He came back from his holiday yesterday. He was with me last night. I was not pleased to see him and I think he knew why. When I finally told him I know more has happened (I have said this to him many times before) and that I wasn't even gonna bother going through stuff, didn't want to listen to his crap, he didn't really have much to say. His whole behaviour last night further confirms to me what I know to be true. But to think he may have seen her, or a.n.other last Oct some time really does hurt. Terribly so. I cannot believe that someone would not know how they got such deep gouges on their shoulder just a day or 3 after getting them. Last night he got up to leave about 3 times, I was indifferent, and so he stayed. Funny. Took the wind right out of his indignant sails. He was very quiet, had very little to say on anything I said other than 'there was no other times than those 4' and 'there was no one else'. What utter bullsh*t. He knows I am not budging on this one, he knows I have made my mind up. So I will just have to see if he comes up with the honesty goods or chooses to end it.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Update....I haven't budged on my stance since my man returned from hols on Sat. But he is not budging on his either! He insists he is telling the truth on all. Which means the loo roll was under the bed a full year before I found it, the cuffs were used only on himself, his coldness back in Jan 2011 was due to him having 2nd thoughts about 'us' (yet he says that he began to truly and deeply love me after our one serious break up in Oct 2010, that just does not make sense to me), the scratches on his shoulder - the only thing I have put to him since his return - were due to work (this answer only came when I began to get suspicious about them and asked again several days/a week or so later. The 1st answer I got when I first saw them was 'I dunno, I thought u did them'. 

Sorry for repetition of stuff. Questions that come here are: What experience do people have of the final truth coming out? Does anyone believe him, that his explanations could be the truth? How long of the threat of break up was it before the WS finally owned up? Or did they never own up even though you knew that they did not want the other person and only want you? Would they rather end a relationship they want (and I know he does want this one) than come completely clean? 

Basically, how far through the pain barrier does he have to go before I get the truth? He knows we will break up over this, so I am just waiting now to see when he will break and give me what I need, to clear this whole mess up.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

Remains said:


> Does anyone believe him, that his explanations could be the truth? How long of the threat of break up was it before the WS finally owned up? Or did they never own up even though you knew that they did not want the other person and only want you? Would they rather end a relationship they want (and I know he does want this one) than come completely clean?
> *I think he is still lying and hoping he can continue your relationship without coming completley clean. *
> 
> Basically, how far through the pain barrier does he have to go before I get the truth? He knows we will break up over this, so I am just waiting now to see when he will break and give me what I need, to clear this whole mess up.
> *You would be so surprised at what could happen if you did a 180 on him. And stick to it. Sometimes that brings then running back faster then you can believe. And honestly if you moved on with your life-take care of yourself-make friends there is only good things that will come to you. There is no time frame, sometimes it comes sooner-other times way later. If he is not being patient and kind when talking and helping you understand all this he isn't into the R...not yet anyhow. GOOD LUCK!!*


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - I just posted again this morning on one of my threads. I believe that as of this second, he has come clean, that everything is out, and there is no more to tell (I don't know how I will feel if I am proven wrong, but I am more certain right now than I have been since DD). That is now. We are on day 14 of no contact. OW tried contacting a family member on FB, but was denied. This brought up 2 more items this morning that he did not get into specifics about when he told me of last contact, but mentioned just the same. He felt he had to be more specific this morning to make sure everything was out, to let me decide if it effected us, but it was nothing that would jeopardize us at this point. So the plan is to just ignore her. If she sends mail, we will send it back. Family has been notified that she is attempting contact again, so everyone is in the know. I have specific details of all that went on - as painful as it was to hear, I already knew in my heart but had to hear them from him to make sure that should anything ever pop up that I was not blindsided. He has not gotten angry with me over asking questions the last 2 weeks and has communicated more than he has in the 3.5 months prior. I know something is different. And for that, I am giving it a last shot. If it were not, I would be done, and I would continue to believe that there was contact or something else he was hiding. From my experience, I think that you will note a significant difference in WS behavior feom all of the other times he said he ws done or "changed". Do I still have doubts - of course - I would be a blind fool if I did not, but I am also not blind to changes that are happening. I can only hope and pray that they are real and will be lasting. If you do not note a difference (and why did he go on vacation alone for a week...was it work? I would think that it should have been both of you together) nothing has changed. I won't pretend that my situation is fixed, or perfect - far from it. We have said that we will not go anywhere with out each other overnight and we have 2 trips planned for this year - one for just us and one as a family. Ask him why he is keeping you around - what he really wants from you. I asked WS this question Saturday, and he said that he wasn't, that I was the one keeping him around. Does that mean that he gets it? I don't know, but it seemed like the only right answer considering. If you tell him that he needs to spill his guts if he wants to keep you in his life and he is unwilling, he is still hiding something. Not saying thatjust because they talk it means that they are telling you everything, but it is a big step, and one that needs to keep being taken...more and more info will continue to trickle out. Hugs.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Somehow your _still_ able to picture the benefits of a _lifelong_ relationship with this man outweighing the CLEAR writing on the wall? 

Yeah, of course he's lying... Yeah, it will continue.... Yes, this is who he is. No, it won't change. Yes, it will happen again, and again and again. 

Really, how can you possibly see your way through to a lifetime journey with this man.. One with a happy ending?

If you step back, Doesn't that amaze you?. How twisted up and delusional love can make you? and the blinding power of denial ?

I bet, someday you will reflect on those exact questions.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Sunshine, I have decided to do the complete 180. Fingers crossed. Though now I don't think I even want to hear the truth. I think I am done.



LookingForTheSun said:


> If you do not note a difference (and why did he go on vacation alone for a week...was it work? I would think that it should have been both of you together) nothing has changed.
> 
> Ask him why he is keeping you around - what he really wants from you. I asked WS this question Saturday, and he said that he wasn't, that I was the one keeping him around. Does that mean that he gets it? I don't know, but it seemed like the only right answer considering. If you tell him that he needs to spill his guts if he wants to keep you in his life and he is unwilling, he is still hiding something. Not saying thatjust because they talk it means that they are telling you everything, but it is a big step, and one that needs to keep being taken...more and more info will continue to trickle out. Hugs.


Hi Looking, he went on holiday with his friends, a boys skiing trip. He's done it for the last 3yrs. I am glad he went, it gave me a good long period without him, time to think, time to become solid in my desire for the truth and my now knowing, knowing fully within myself, that I am right. That he continues to lie and fill me with crap and treat me like crap with his seperate lives. Loving and 'dedicated' to me, while screwing around behind my back.

I am more convinced with every day that passes. He came back Sat, I was cold. Sunday I told him that til he comes clean we will have an open relationship or no relationship. He has no choice on that score. The only choice he has is how long it remains like that. If he can screw around then I will not stay dedicated to him while he does that. I don't want to screw around but I am open to a date. Monday I didn't budge. Tuesday is his evening with me, as is Weds, today. Yesterday I was distant, happy-ish for him to come round, he is nice company, but I reconfirmed my conditions. Last night I had enough. He got narky and so I did in turn. But mine was calm while his switched between angry and wanting to ignore and make up. I told him I didn't even like him anymore, I don't want any relationship with him if he won't come clean. He kept trying to give me the stuck record speech. I kept telling him to shut up, to save it, not interested, its pathetic. He gets the message. He was nearly crying a couple of times. Told him to stop it, he's pathetic. I ended up kicking him out at 2am because he was being an arse. He kept calling me. I ignored. Then he said he didn't have his house keys. Left at work. So I had to let him back in again! I am not cruel  

Full 180 here we come!  



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Somehow your _still_ able to picture the benefits of a _lifelong_ relationship with this man outweighing the CLEAR writing on the wall?
> 
> Yeah, of course he's lying... Yeah, it will continue.... Yes, this is who he is. No, it won't change. Yes, it will happen again, and again and again.
> 
> ...


Pit, Thankyou for your strong words. You are dead right. Isn't love a funny thing.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - you are awesome! Stick to your guns and read his every move. If he cries - is it because he feels sorry for himself or for you and what he has put you through....it is hard to tell at first...your heart makes you want to believe in goodness and love, but lies, manipulation - you and I have both had enough (as have many people on this site...too many...so sad). Not to add to it, but in my opinion, he never should have gone away with his friends when something so serious was going on between him and you....his friends will always be there, but you may not. It is almost hard to give advice to someone when you are going through the same thing - telling them to be strong and what to watch out for - when it is not yourself it almost seems so easy to see what is going on, but your heart, devotion and investment make it a struggle to see what is going on in your own life. If you were me, what would you do at this point in my shoes? If I were you, I would make this the last hoorah and he is either on board with you or you sail without him. Just don't feel that you have to have him to be part of something great. You are strong, and if it comes down to you moving on, when the time is right, you WILL find someone who compliments you, who is great with you, and who others will see as great for you. There are 6.8 billion people in this world....you do have options. Hugs!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

sunshinetoday said:


> If he is not being patient and kind when talking and helping you understand all this he isn't into the R...not yet anyhow. GOOD LUCK!!


This is absolutely how it is. And very very true. He doesn't give 2 hoots about R


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Remains - you are awesome! Stick to your guns and read his every move. If he cries - is it because he feels sorry for himself or for you and what he has put you through....it is hard to tell at first...your heart makes you want to believe in goodness and love, but lies, manipulation - you and I have both had enough (as have many people on this site...too many...so sad). Not to add to it, but in my opinion, he never should have gone away with his friends when something so serious was going on between him and you....his friends will always be there, but you may not. It is almost hard to give advice to someone when you are going through the same thing - telling them to be strong and what to watch out for - when it is not yourself it almost seems so easy to see what is going on, but your heart, devotion and investment make it a struggle to see what is going on in your own life. If you were me, what would you do at this point in my shoes? If I were you, I would make this the last hoorah and he is either on board with you or you sail without him. Just don't feel that you have to have him to be part of something great. You are strong, and if it comes down to you moving on, when the time is right, you WILL find someone who compliments you, who is great with you, and who others will see as great for you. There are 6.8 billion people in this world....you do have options. Hugs!


Hey Looking! always happy for your reply, you have been a great support. Point by point....

He cries because he feels sorry for himself I reckon. At 1st (DD) I believed because he was so sorry for the pain he had caused. Now, so many months later and all his actions suggesting the opposite of R I know it is just for self pity. That or for effect only. The latter may be closer to the truth.

As for the holiday, it was a very difficult week in the run up to it. His 3rd admitted liaison was the night before he went the 1st time, 2 years ago. He was going away, didn't want to chat that evening and so on. No love coming my way just before my bf away for a week holiday. It was awful. And of course I found out why. That was the worst of all the times he did it. That had a lot of cruel circumstances surrounding that week. I think he definitely should not have gone away last week if he considered me at all. He did not. I pressured him neither way. And he was understanding in my difficulties the week before he went. He still went though. I am thankful he did. The week before, it was on my mind constantly, and the week he was away I was able to have breathing space and a good long think. If he hadn't have gone I would not ne at the place I am now. I am thankful. Not so good for him though. He would not be where he is now if he had thought more of me and the effects of going and the upset it brought to me.

 If I was you what would I do? I would hope my husband is now at the end of the affair road and work on my relationship. Sounds to me like he has really turned a huge corner. Don't throw that away. But...and a big BUT, put everything in place that it never happens again...and he will happily do so...as it sounds like he already is - no nights apart etc. Put everything out on the table, open for all to see, so that if something goes missing it will be easily missed. Make sure he has no hiding places for anything to go missing and make sure he is happy with that. Because if he wants to fix, any 'normal' expectation and assurance will be given happily. 

This is most definitely my last hoorah! I am going to txt him right away that he can either jump on board with me or I will sail without him - though actually I am not sure anymore if I want someone like him on board anymore...I will text him anyway, see what reaction it gets. I have already told him half hour ago I don't want to see him unless he is cleaning so all is spotless. He is still insisting all correct and no lies. I know that is incorrect. I am signing off now...text sending any moment. Hugs to you too!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Update...I hope I have some people reading this and I am not writing into a nothingness. Other's thoughts please! I am now filled with a dread of the inevitability...anyway, I have got fed up with the 180, I think he cd go on forever like that, so long as I continued to see him. And an open relationship is not what I want. So I have laid down the law. He wanted me to go over to his tomorrow (we both don't work Fridays). I said I didn't see the point unless he was going to talk with me. He said he was happy to talk, and then played his stuck record again. Happy to talk! I wouldn't be where I am now if he was happy to talk, and I wdnt be stuck on my suspicions if he had ever been happy to talk. I told him not to bother etc. And then I just got angry, told him I know what has gone on and he'd better tell me or we are finished forever. I told him he has until tonight or tomorrow to come clean with me and if he doesn't then it will be the last time I set foot in his house and him in mine. He had better give me the real version tomorrow or I will walk very quickly. The first hint of bullsh*t and I will walk. Any flannel at all, I will walk. And I will know when the flannel is given, he has given enough for me to become an expert detector! I think he got the message. Whatever tomorrow brings, I think I will be walking anyway. He is a sh*t of the highest order. However, I am angry right now, and tomorrow is another day, and I am like a see-saw. I hate him, then love him, miss him, and so on. I feel lost without him, and F*cked up with him. I am a mess sometimes! Give me strength!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Well...I went to his Friday. I had told him that it will not be me doing the talking, it will be him. I told him he better be straight with me etc etc.

Got to his, he talked. He has been accused of going hot and cold in relationships before and he doesn't remember January last year being as bad as I remember. He says he doesn't remember having sex with her while she was on her period, it could be from them, but he doesn't know about the loo roll. He says he did use cuffs on himself and did pick them up and put them down again also, so that is how they have moved, the bed was made up because he did lay on it sometimes. That was his bedroom and it still had all his stuff in it. The scratches on his shoulder came from his gardening work, shifting logs and a lot if them that day. I can't remember the other scenarios, if there are any, I will have to reread my post later. 

Anyone, could it be at all possible that he could be given the benefit of the doubt? I have put him through the pain barrier this week, I told him in no uncertain terms on Friday, and he talked to me in a very calm and relaxed way. Though when I started talking, going through all my stuff, he got a bit aggitated. Is this just his way? I don't know. I went through all my issues to show him that all in one ream, how obvious it all looks. He didn't seem so open to listening, because it is questioning/criticising maybe? I don't know. He did listen though. Not without interruptions. I didn't feel he was as understanding as he should have been given how our chat was progressing. It was all calm etc. But he was understanding. He did listen. He did talk. He said he realised we were over and that he has nothing else to hide. He has nothing to save, because it is gone (I wonder if this was to test me though, to see if I really did mean it would be over if he didn't give all to me?) I just don't know what to think. I am so confused. Can his story be believed?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Yeah, of course he's lying... Yeah, it will continue.... Yes, this is who he is. No, it won't change. Yes, it will happen again, and again and again.


Exactly!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Stupid question coming...does anyone have experience in having this amount of 'circumstantial' evidence stacked and for it to be wrong?


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Remains said:


> Stupid question coming...does anyone have experience in having this amount of 'circumstantial' evidence stacked and for it to be wrong?


You already know the answer to this question, painful as it is.

Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is cold and distant and refuses to try to openly communicate?

This is like smoking - your chemically addicted body says "good" but there is a part of your rational mind that can see it is bad. 

Take the energy you are putting into this relationship and put it into yourself. Exercise, get counseling, get a better job, take up a new hobby, paint your house, etc. Distract yourself with something that makes you and your life better.

[Plays theme from "Rocky]


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I like the rocky theme


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - my heart goes out to you and I hope you are still strong. You said that when you started talking about you that he got irritated...that has never been a good sign for me in my situation. I could be wrong, but I think that there is a lot more, he knows that you do love him, and he is not planning to go into it anymore and believes that you will eventually drop it and move on. An affair could always happen again, but unless you see true remorse, have a gut feeling that he has come clean, and he has a near breakdown and gut wrenching sobs, I don't believe he plans to be faithful or fully committed...that he does not realize or care to the extent that he has hurt you. It is strange for me to write this going through my own hell. I say all that with hesitation...because I am still on my own path. For the first time coming up on 4 months, I feel that hubby is truly remorseful. That he is really giving us a shot and that he wants me and our family. My heart still stops if we talk about stuff and I see him tear up because I am always waiting for another ball to drop, but it comes out as remorse, apologies, hurt...nothing else. It has been 21 days today of no contact. I am still on alert - I think I will be for awhile, but I hope that in time he can prove himself and I can let my guard down a bit. At times I feel he doesn't deserve a chance, because I literally want to erase 6 months of my life and every moment during that time, Halloween, birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving - all of that is tainted because he was living a lie with me and having an affair. I thought there were good times, but I don't even want to think about them - sad - to not want to remember holidays and birthdays with my girls....just too painful right now. When we are good, we are great, and then there is this big ugly affair. In my heart do I feel that we have jumped a hurdle together - yes. Finally yes. If you just gave your last big hurrah and do not feel any better about it, you need to make a big decision - to either go back and forth like a yo-yo, unknowing, or decide that you are done and want more. Feel good knowing that you did everything you could and should have done. Any man should be so lucky to have that. Hugs!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Hi Looking  I am very happy to hear things are still good between u and hubby. Glad to hear that that corner he turned was a real one.

U are right about him I reckon. I need to just keep remembering all the stuff he has done and all the lies I believe he has told me. I am struggling to stay strong. I feel strong, then I miss him and weaken. Since last Fri when we spoke, we spent most of the wknd together, and I thought and mulled over all he said to me Fri. Mon I didn't see him, Tues he came over and I was cold. I had made my mind up by now on what he had said to me Fri. I couldn't chat with him til evening as I had my daughter, I didn't even really want to talk. Done enough of that. I just told him. Told him I know what he has done and don't want to be with him. That was it. He carried on trying to tell me the usual, I had no interest. I started to verbally lay into him, and carried on for some time. He was trying to sleep while I gave him comment after comment of what I thought of him. Weds we are both child free and he was out with his friend after work, I was out with mine. After work I was missing him again. Chatted with my friend. I was resolute again. Had no interest in him. He texted me a few times Weds night while I was out with my friends, I was cold in replies. Then he turned up! He would've been coming out with me if all well, but it wasn't. So, he turns up, starts talking rubbish so I left and walked home. He followed me, I probably would've let him in my house and sleep there but he kept saying stuff that really annoyed me. So I refused to let him in. He got a taxi to mine, without me wanting him to come over, and then walked 1hour home very shortly after. I don't feel so bad, I don't miss him as much, I don't know if I even love him anymore. I saw him last night when he turned up and felt nothing but irritation. I am waiting for him to come clean, not sure if he will, he may even actually be telling the truth about there being no more occasions than those 4. But if he is, he is certainly not being honest about other stuff. I just want him to talk to me. We could be so happy, we get on so well, and I love his company. This is why it is so difficult.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

You are still strong. Don't mistake missing the good times you once shared with weakness. It is all still going on, so you will have moments when you question how you feel. I understand about thinking that he may be telling the truth, but even so, what he has done does not make it better now...just the messing with your emotions and lack of sensitivity, the blame switching - I know it all too well. The irritation - that is normal too. If I did not feel that my husband took a final turn, I would not be here. We had about a 2 hour talk last night - we are still dealing with issues....we are at 23 days no contact now. I had a bad day yesterday. I am still angry at her and want to lash out at her, contact her boyfriend she lives with and tell him that she was still carrying on up until 3 weeks ago with my husband. I am POd that I allow her to make me angry now. My friends tell me to not waste energy even thinking about anyone else but my family - and they are right....it is just my hangup right now, that, and wanting to erase or replace the last 6 months. He is dealing with hate and disgust of himself. He said that he knows what he did and he will never be able to forgive himself, but that he will try everyday to be a better person, productive, loving and be the husband and father that he should have been all along. I told him that it was so hard for me to believe that she has not made contact in 22 days, other than try to reach out to his family on FB. He said that he knows and he thought for sure that there would be something waiting for him in the mail at work on Monday but there was not. Maybe she is done. Maybe she is lurking - we don't know, but we both agreed (and he said) that she is like a snake in our back yard. It is our yard, and we know that she is there, but we enjoy it, and should that snake ever show itself, we cut its head off....OK - so we would not cut her head off, but I did REALLY appreciate the analogy he used. So we take one day at a time, knowing that we have a journey ahead of us...that is how we are looking at it. I will try my hardest not to dwell on what might happen or what did happen, but instead on what is hapening now. I am still scared, but I have to move on. You too need to move on. The path you choose will also be a journey, one that you will need to walk every day. Each day will get a bit easier, you may hit a roadblock or two, but the scenery will change, and you will slowly start to forget what was behind you and will be able to see all that lies before you. You have a daughter - you have a miracle right there that you can focus your energy on. Our children are way more important than a cheating other. Mine helped me get through this, kept me strong, and they do not even know. If my journey stays on the path it is going, they will never know. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers, and if you ever need a friend across the ocean, I'll be here checking in. Take care - you are doing great!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thankyou Looking, your words are always so helpful. And I am so glad u are now moving forward with your H. As hard as it all is to deal with, at least there is progress now. I hope it continues...I am sure it will. 

In my gut, I feel and know there is missing information. It is so sad that he doesn't feel he can tell me what it is, I just hope that the reason is not because he continues it every now and again. Though if he is, I don't suppose it matters anymore. I am not sure we will move on from here. We are still split up today. This weekend is his free one, we would normally be spending it together. I don't think we will be. 

He had got to a point now where he will talk to me, though as I said, last Friday he talked, said all his stuff, I listened, and when I started talking...about all the things that make me believe that there is more, all the seemingly such obvious pointers at other occasions, he did get aggitated. Aggitated because it is more like a criticism of him, or because he hides things...I don't know. He seems truly sorry, he seems to want to do all the right things from here on in, he started to be much more remorseful...I have told him what I would like, he tries very hard. He says he wants me for always and forever, he wants to be the man I deserve, he has changed so much for me, to become that man...and he has. He is that man now. But...if there is not a clean past, an honest past, there can be no future. I just wish he would be totally straight and honest.

Your support Looking is most appreciated, and reciprocated. If u ever need mine it will always be there. Thankyou. Xx


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Well, this week, since I told him Tues that there is no point continuing, I don't believe him and I refuse to go round in circles anymore, I have managed to stay strong...just. In the last 2 wks since he got back from hol, the only love he got was last weekend while I was mulling over last Fridays chat. Tues I was cold, Weds I sent him home. He got no love in texts yesterday, or this morning. We don't work Fridays, he texted me this morning, no love returned. He called me. He wanted to know why we seemed to get somewhere last Fri and then all back to me not believing him again. I told him we got nowhere last Fri. He was telling me same old crap. And if the only 4 occasions with her is true then he hasn't cleared up the massive holes in his story. He said we didn't go into that and that is the progress we need to make. I told him we had all day! He didn't offer the honest version and had plenty of time to. I refuse to go round in circles with him. I am moving forward and I am not hanging around for him any longer. He asked if I wanted to move forward with him. I told him I don't know, but I am happy to listen if he is not going to give me the same broken record. He wants to see me today. He will be coming over this afternoon. I am ready for him to spend all morning thinking up a plausible story. Something bad enough to be accepted, but not the real truth because that is just toooo bad. We will see. 

Any thoughts? 

I'll tell u what has been a great help to me, as well as many things, stories, opinions and people on this site, the thread by Anonymous1978 (I think) entitled Do They Ever Tell the WHOLE Truth. There are posts on there which are mirror images of the 'chat' I have been given, the flannel, the lies. They should be compiled into a 'sticky' (whatever that is) so that they can be read in one easy list and so new people here can read their own Waywards crap asap in black and white on the list of 'cheater's behaviour patterns, sh*t justifications and one liners'. I swear there has got to be a handbook of sh*t justifications and reasons to give to your other half to explain away cheating and lying behaviour. I am so thankful I found this site. I see so much more clearly now.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Remains, ALWAYS trust your gut. If I had I would have been able to do something about my H EA months before I did. But I just ignored that 'nag'. Never again will I do that. Follow your gut. I started reading his email and there it was plain as day.. so I moved on to verify in more 'advanced' ways. If I hadnt who knows what would be going on by now...


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Trusting your gut - sometimes you don't even know what it is telling you. I told my WS - "if you didn't have your hockey, I would swear you were having an affair"....I was joking, but guess what......UGH!!!!!!!!!! When they take their phone with them EVERYWHERE...never leave it laying around, stay up later than you every night, make sure that they have something to do in the garage or outside while you are in........all signs...you just don't know until it happens to you.

Remains - make sure you get something new - because there is something you have not heard before...then decide. Girl power!!!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Trusting your gut - sometimes you don't even know what it is telling you. I told my WS - "if you didn't have your hockey, I would swear you were having an affair"....I was joking, but guess what......UGH!!!!!!!!!! When they take their phone with them EVERYWHERE...never leave it laying around, stay up later than you every night, make sure that they have something to do in the garage or outside while you are in........all signs...you just don't know until it happens to you.
> 
> Remains - make sure you get something new - because there is something you have not heard before...then decide. Girl power!!!


Oh I agree. Sometimes you dont. But when you do. When you have that nag that says I think he's cheating.....


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Remains said:


> Well, this week, since I told him Tues that there is no point continuing, I don't believe him and I refuse to go round in circles anymore, I have managed to stay strong...just. In the last 2 wks since he got back from hol, the only love he got was last weekend while I was mulling over last Fridays chat. Tues I was cold, Weds I sent him home. He got no love in texts yesterday, or this morning. We don't work Fridays, he texted me this morning, no love returned. He called me. He wanted to know why we seemed to get somewhere last Fri and then all back to me not believing him again. I told him we got nowhere last Fri. He was telling me same old crap. And if the only 4 occasions with her is true then he hasn't cleared up the massive holes in his story. He said we didn't go into that and that is the progress we need to make. I told him we had all day! He didn't offer the honest version and had plenty of time to. I refuse to go round in circles with him. I am moving forward and I am not hanging around for him any longer. He asked if I wanted to move forward with him. I told him I don't know, but I am happy to listen if he is not going to give me the same broken record. He wants to see me today. He will be coming over this afternoon. I am ready for him to spend all morning thinking up a plausible story. Something bad enough to be accepted, but not the real truth because that is just toooo bad. We will see.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> I'll tell u what has been a great help to me, as well as many things, stories, opinions and people on this site, the thread by Anonymous1978 (I think) entitled Do They Ever Tell the WHOLE Truth. There are posts on there which are mirror images of the 'chat' I have been given, the flannel, the lies. They should be compiled into a 'sticky' (whatever that is) so that they can be read in one easy list and so new people here can read their own Waywards crap asap in black and white on the list of 'cheater's behaviour patterns, sh*t justifications and one liners'. I swear there has got to be a handbook of sh*t justifications and reasons to give to your other half to explain away cheating and lying behaviour. I am so thankful I found this site. I see so much more clearly now.


I agree. It has allowed me to stand firmer w/my H. Not allow rug sweeping and half truths. To recognize true remorse when I see it and when I dont. It helps to talk to people who understand how you feel. I can tell him til the cows come home but until youre on this side of the fence, you cant understand.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Yep - the nag - and I don't know if it goes away even if they come clean and do right...do you ever get over the feeling that they may have slipped back into the dark side, even when their actions say everything else? Do you ever stop questioning every little thing, wondering if you are being paranoid or if you just need some time to let your guard down?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Fu*k sake, here I am wanting it to.be sorted and.ok and he says another thing that puts my senses heightened 3 fold. I am drunk and don't even know what it.is he said now. Fu*k.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thankyou canttrustyou and Looking. I really appreciate your replies. He came over on Fri and gave me the same story as always. I just don't know what to think. He seems truly remorseful on one level. When he has talked about it the last 2 Fridays, particularly last Friday, he says how sorry he is, how I haven't deserved all this, he did still want her back those 1st 3 times, if she had asked to make another go at their relationship he would have been torn but probably would have gone back (they were only split 2months when we met, and 4months on his 1st cheat) but the 4th time he did not want her back, couldn't wait for her to go and that was the last time he saw her on that level. He has been consistent with his story. As you know, my trouble is did it carry on? Whether with her or someone else. I don't believe he cheats on me now, but I have nagging doubts that he continued to cheat. Well into last year. And how do I find that out? I don't know. I have put him through the pain barrier the last 2+ weeks, and he stays with the same story. I don't know if I analyse things too much and am paranoid, or if I am totally right and getting the wool pulled over my eyes, but I believe there are other occasions he has not told me. He has said to me that he would give that to me if there was, that I deserve the truth after all I have put up with from him, that his conscience is cleared and so on. He appreciates that I have tried so hard, that I am still here. But I have heard his lies before. And he would take them all the way if his life depended on it. If what I think is true, then his life with me would depend on it, and would end with that truth. So it is a double edged sword. He was also telling me that he has dealt with all this so badly since it all came out. And that he is truly sorry for that. Once we had talked about it he thought that should be it. He did not want to face it any further, that behaviour was over, had been since July 2010, and so, once chatted about, it should be left to lie. I should just believe him. He buried his head in the sand and there4 so should I. He had made a hole for me right next to his. He said he was truly sorry for this, and that it was selfish, he was not thinking of me, my feelings, what I needed, and was truly sorry. He said all this last Friday. I asked him to tell his mum that it was his behaviour that had prolonged all this, his continuous lies from day 1 of our relationship (i wanted him to because she had this belief that it was my problem, I keep dragging it up, I need to believe and move on, and that belief came from him I think). He did. I gave him the privacy to say what he needed to say without it being for my ears. He came down after and told me what he'd said, what she had said. He said he was glad he'd done this. I believe him. However, still, since last Friday and the Friday before, when I have brought it up, he doesn't have that sympathetic understanding that I believe he should have. He talks. But not without a subtle aggitation. Am I reading too much into this. I construe it as his still hiding things. Not the true remorse way that people talk about on here, the way I want him to be and how I would be if I was in his shoes. But is that just his personality? Am I expecting too much? He has come a long way in the last 8-10 months. I have forced him to. Forced the issue. But am I still kidding myself? Are some people really like this? Or is this an obvious sign of hiding things? 

What I wrote above, in my drunken state, was probably him giving me a 'I am hiding something' reaction...I wish I could have remembered it. 

Something else came to me too. We have just arranged a visit to his friends. They have a big house in the countryside and are a lovely couple. We went last year. It was around July (all this came out in May), we went just after I went to visit his ex to ask when their last meeting was, and just after I found the loo roll under his bed. Before we went, he was saying he was not sure he wanted to go with me, that I would be saving some kind of punishment for him. He also said 'I don't know why you want to go with me, why would you want to go away with me anyway?'. I am now wondering if that was an admission that all his ex said was true, and/or, that the loo roll I found was quite a fresh mopping up roll. That it is how I believe. Why would he say those things? Could it really be just from having a difficult time of it folllowing the DD? But we arranged the holiday. It was after the loo roll discovery and the ex visit he said this. He was also quite cold quite frequently while we were away. I asked him why last night. He said it was just stress of going away. Stress of going away with the children. And that he is always like that. It was just stress of worrying that everyone would be happy. And that was it. I am not sure I believe him. I think he was cold and stressed because of my find under the bed, and because of my visit. But could he be stressed over the visit because he is closed, didn't want to talk about it, and so didn't know what was going on in my head. As I have said, in this post or a previous one, he asked me what she had said, was happy to ask me and find out what had been said about him, but the whole chat was about her. Not about me. Not how what she had said had made me feel. Not to go through what she had said in order to clear it up. It wasn't all about me. It was all about her. This was nearly a year ago. We are going away on Thurs and it has brought all of that up for me again. What do you think?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Trusting your gut - sometimes you don't even know what it is telling you. I told my WS - "if you didn't have your hockey, I would swear you were having an affair"....I was joking, but guess what......UGH!!!!!!!!!! When they take their phone with them EVERYWHERE...never leave it laying around, stay up later than you every night, make sure that they have something to do in the garage or outside while you are in........all signs...you just don't know until it happens to you.
> 
> Remains - make sure you get something new - because there is something you have not heard before...then decide. Girl power!!!


I didn't make it clear above, he doesn't hide his phone, or disappear. Not now anyway. I cannot remember if he did this last year when it was supposed to be over. If he had an evening of being uncontactable. That is why it is so frustrating. He would do it on an evening we would not be together anyway. He could say 'sorry I didn't reply to your text, I fell asleep' and that could easily be the case. The loo roll though? He says he didn't think it was from them 2, didn't think she was on her period on any of 4 occasions. If it was from him and another, surely he would say that it was from them 2 back in July a year before I found it. Because then it would be explained...albeit dubious. But no, he says he doesn't know. It could well be from them, but he doesn't know. But, is this one of those massive red flags of the 'I don't know because I can't think of a good enough answer quick enough' kind?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Look, you cheat, you get ONE chance to prove you "get it" and start to change your behavior. If this guy doesn't want to talk about it, doesn't want to let you vent and heal properly, why are you sticking around?

He's a liar, a cheater, and he doesn't care about you. Save yourself the heartache and find someone who will care about you. Go to therapy and discover why you are allowing yourself to accept this man's crap. You are addicted to this guy and he is not worth it.

Of course he's going to tell you what you want to hear now that he's losing you. Where were his actions after D-day? He didn't care about you then.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree, I am addicted to this man. He shows ne much love and is my perfect man in every single little way apart from in what happened. And if he means what he says then it is a difficult thing to give up. I am very unsure if he is being honest with me, though I am now sure he is now dedicated to me. So very very tricky. 

Why would he be so hot and cold, moody, while we were away on holiday. Just 2-3 months after DD? Why after my find and my visit to the ex would he then say he doesn't want to go away with me, and ask why I would want to go away with him anyway? I wonder if that is the penny. Now it should drop? 

His initial reaction to the loo roll was to look at himself to say 'I have black pubes'. His initial reaction to the bed made up was 'I wanted it to look tidier'. Now he says he does not know about the loo roll. And now he says he lay on that bed sometimes. And that his mum came to visit, she slept in his bed upstairs and he slept in the bed downstairs. 

Huh?! Why would he give up his double bed and put her in the room he didn't sleep in anymore? Tho that could be explained in that that was his room. It had all his stuff in. It was messy. Easier to put her upstairs, and a nicer room. But...I don't think she came to stay around that time, otherwise I would have made that excise for him. 

One chance is easier said than done when u are in love so desperately. When u know that that person is closed and moody and so on. Though...I have only known the deceptive hot and cold him. I am not sure I know the true him. Therefore I never know if his behaviour is 'normal' patterns for him or if it is his deceptive patterns. So difficult. So easy to see when you are not immersed in it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> I agree, I am addicted to this man. He shows ne much love and is my perfect man in every single little way apart from in what happened. And if he means what he says then it is a difficult thing to give up. I am very unsure if he is being honest with me, though I am now sure he is now dedicated to me. So very very tricky.
> 
> Why would he be so hot and cold, moody, while we were away on holiday. Just 2-3 months after DD? Why after my find and my visit to the ex would he then say he doesn't want to go away with me, and ask why I would want to go away with him anyway? I wonder if that is the penny. Now it should drop?
> 
> ...


He shows me love and is the perfect man, except for the fact that at night he murders people and molests baby seals.

He lies and cheats on you, what part of that is showing love? You're addiction precludes you from seeing him how he truly is. People that love eachother don't lie and cheat on eachother.

Why is he acting so hot and cold? Because he wants to eat his cake, and have it too. And you're letting him. You can take care of the house and stroke his ego, give him occasional sex. He gets to pretend to be single with his old love interest. All he has to do to keep this up is act interested for a few weeks every time you plan on leaving. Sounds like a nice setup.

I'm intentionally being blunt and crass with the hope that a small glimpse of your self-respect sees the situation for how it is and responds accordingly. Take a play from the Man playbook. Don't overthink it, just look at it logically. The guy wants casual, uncomplicated sex with his ex, he admitted it to you. His actions show he's not stopping. You're still with him, which in terms of behavior reinforcement shows that he can get away with it. How many times before has he "promised to change" and then things wind up like they did before?

I would even go far enough to say that your husband is not the problem. He has been honest in his speech and unwavering in his personality. The problem is that you lack the self-respect to remove yourself from a situation where you are treated like a doormat. Did something happen to you growing up that you think this is the best life has to offer? A lying, cheating, a-hole who is hot and cold for you depending on how recently he slept around and how likely you are to leave him? Life can be so much better than that. A marriage where two people show love for eachother at all times because they know what true love is. Not Hollywood feeling crap, but true self-sacrificing, unconditional love.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Remains said:


> I agree, I am addicted to this man. He shows ne much love and is my perfect man in every single little way apart from in what happened. And if he means what he says then it is a difficult thing to give up. I am very unsure if he is being honest with me, though I am now sure he is now dedicated to me. So very very tricky.
> 
> Why would he be so hot and cold, moody, while we were away on holiday. Just 2-3 months after DD? Why after my find and my visit to the ex would he then say he doesn't want to go away with me, and ask why I would want to go away with him anyway? I wonder if that is the penny. Now it should drop?
> 
> ...


Remains, I so understand being completely in love. That said what about love for yourself? I totally love my H. He recently had an EA. That is his one transgression, Im still not sure I will be able to stay thru this let alone ANOTHER!. There is NO way i will ever stand for this again. It has broken my heart, my soul and my spirt. If/when I recover I wont do it again.....ever.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Also, yesterday when I asked him about why he was cold to me on holiday, why he was moody, he told me why, kids, stress etc, and then went very quiet for the rest of the evening. He did ask to kiss me a couple of times after, to gauge if I was going to be moody with him or not. I was not moody, but I was not my normal loving self either. And this morning he was coldish too. He wasn't totally quiet, or cold, last night and this morning, but was noticeably so, a little. He wasn't his normal loving self had I brought nothing up. Therefore, was he moody because I brought up another issue, because I was obviously a little moody and thoughtful...'if she is gonna be off with me then so be it' kinda thing. I know if I make the effort and get nothing in return I stop making the effort. But I didn't do anything wrong, I asked him nicely, it obviously bothered me, but I wasn't narky. Maybe a little cold...a tiny bit...but not really. Is it normal to be like this? I know he should have made more effort, more to reassure etc, but is it his personality that causes him to be like this, considering how he has been the last 10 months and that it is getting better, or is it obvious he continues to hide something?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

COguy said:


> He shows me love and is the perfect man, except for the fact that at night he murders people and molests baby seals.
> 
> He lies and cheats on you, what part of that is showing love? You're addiction precludes you from seeing him how he truly is. People that love eachother don't lie and cheat on eachother.
> 
> ...


I agree completely, but he cheated at the beginning of our relationship. From what he says, it finished almost a year before DD. My issue is, has he cheated since. I believe he has. I have left him on this issue a lot of times, and this last 2 weeks have been the most serious. He knew I was deadly serious...I think. I certainly felt like I was, and have made that clear to him. I have never been before like I have been the last 2 weeks. And he was scared. I know he loves me a lot, that is not an issue. I believe he may still be lying to preserve us. That is the issue.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> I agree completely, but he cheated at the beginning of our relationship. From what he says, it finished almost a year before DD. My issue is, has he cheated since. I believe he has. I have left him on this issue a lot of times, and this last 2 weeks have been the most serious. He knew I was deadly serious...I think. I certainly felt like I was, and have made that clear to him. I have never been before like I have been the last 2 weeks. And he was scared. I know he loves me a lot, that is not an issue. I believe he may still be lying to preserve us. That is the issue.


You didn't leave him over this, you're still here, writing about it.

Ever hear those people talking about how many times they've quit smoking?

Again, from a purely pscyhological, behavioral modification standpoint. Your husband gets to screw around, and he knows you'll come back if he just says the right thing. Stop rationalizing it. Your behavior and reaction is just as predictable as his. I don't care how frustrated you are, this relationship should have been over 10 months ago. The fact that you are CONSIDERING taking him back speaks volumes about your self-respect.

I will leave it at this, if you do not get out of the relationship, do not expect that your life will ever change. Expect to be dealing with hot and cold feelings, lies, and affairs, for the rest of your life.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

coguy, what do u mean by take a play from the play from the man playbook? 

And I am happy for the blunt words. I like blunt. And I really am no doormat, but I am possibly blinded. I am quite a feisty character, and I am intelligent. I think many people may have not pushed for this like I have, possibly not even noticed. But I also think many would have dumped him after the first occasions as they were so obvious. I am a sucker? I have never been with someone as perfect (I realise this is ironic) as him before. He loves me how I like to be loved, and he helps, is helpful, in so many ways. He loves to be with me, we have a great laugh when we are together, and I love being with him. And he is, believe it or not, a good man. On the whole. He has changed immeasurably since we got together. Why I still want to believe. So...I am a sucker.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> coguy, what do u mean by take a play from the play from the man playbook?
> 
> And I am happy for the blunt words. I like blunt. And I really am no doormat, but I am possibly blinded. I am quite a feisty character, and I am intelligent. I think many people may have not pushed for this like I have, possibly not even noticed. But I also think many would have dumped him after the first occasions as they were so obvious. I am a sucker as I have never been with someone as perfect (I realise this is ironic) as him before. He loves me how I like to be loved, and he helps, is helpful, in so many ways. He loves to be with me, we have a great laugh when we are together, and I love being with him. And he is, believe it or not, a good man. On the whole. He has changed immeasurably since we got together. Why I still want to believe. So...I am a sucker.


Man Playbook: never strategize, react directly to something on the superficial level. Men don't overthink things, we just react. If you ask us if you look fat, we take the question at face value.

Anyway, you admit to being a sucker at the same time you rationalize it. Buck up and do something about it. You say believe it or not. I believe not. Good men don't act like that. I honestly believe that your husband has the outward appearance of a good man, or that he has a desire to be a good man, but he is not. It's like saying she's a virgin but has slept with 15 men. You can not be both a good man, and a liar and adulterer. He can not both love you, and do things to hurt you at the same time. One of your assumptions is incorrect, only you are unable to see it because of your addiction.

You need therapy and withdrawal, like an addict of anything else.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Therapy and withdrawal...like an addict...

Yes, I have seen myself as this for a very long time. He is my drug. Very bad for me but I can't get enough. When he is with me and all is good, we have a great time...and he is very displaying in his love to me, in his actions and behaviour.

I am going to finish with him next week I think. I cannot carry on any longer. We are away for the weekend, back Tues, talk Weds. Finish. 

That is how I plan it to go anyway.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

We had a lovely 5 days away, I went cold one night as I was trying to hold it together. My daughter was with us.

We spoke tonight, same patterns. We are finished. And I have dumped him. The end.

....I hope...


Yes, it is very much the end.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> We had a lovely 5 days away, I went cold one night as I was trying to hold it together. My daughter was with us.
> 
> We spoke tonight, same patterns. We are finished. And I have dumped him. The end.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for you and proud of you at the same time. Hold your head high and have hope for the future.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks coGuy, I have high hopes for the future, and am finally ridding myself of the drug....I feel....I hope...

The last 3 weeks I have not been on the last chapter (the last chapter has been dragging on for an age), I have been on the epilogue. And I do not feel anything like what I have done every other time. I feel ok, fine, I feel slightly freer. If only he had 'got it' and sorted himself out. He could have had me forever....like he said he wanted to. I have given him so much opportunity. But it was not to be....and I have probably had a lucky escape. I know I will have no regrets, I know what I know and I do not need his confirmation of the 'facts'. They are too strong for him.to deny, though deny he will...and is. Even if what he says is true (which it is not) he has only himself to blame because he has lied to me throughout our time together. His lying is the only way I ended up here, and me being here has solidified my reasoning, made me more confident in my thoughts and feelings. Thank goodness I found this place otherwise I may have ended up with another 2years of physical headaches and nausea on top of what I have had due to not being confident in my own sh*t detection. 

Thankyou TAM.... actually, Thankyou to all who have helped, Looking, Can'ttrustu, CoGuy, Pit , ALL of u thanks so much. XxxX

And Looking, a special thanks to u. You and your story were so similar to mine, and u helped me a lot. Thankyou. 

I hope I don't have to return here to tell u what he has done to make amends. I guess this will he my true 180, cos actually I really don't care. 

...hope I still don't care in the morning.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

If you need a good slap tomorrow come back and let us know. We'll remind you of all the sh*t and lies.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Hehe thanks CoGuy. I am missing him, but it is not the intense missing like usual. I don't feel too sad....yet. I don't want him back...yet. And I don't think I will want him back. Too much upset and nightmares and distrust and unanswered questions and changing answers to my questions. His love don't make up for all that.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I am wavering! Yikes! I knew this would happen. So angry and cross yesterday and day b4, now I miss him terribly. Need time to read my reasons again for wanting out, don't have time til tonight. Worried.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> I am wavering! Yikes! I knew this would happen. So angry and cross yesterday and day b4, now I miss him terribly. Need time to read my reasons again for wanting out, don't have time til tonight. Worried.


You're an awesome woman worthy of an honest, dependable, loving, caring, man. Do not sell yourself short. Break the addiction, you can do this. Demand the best for your life.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

COguy said:


> You're an awesome woman worthy of an honest, dependable, loving, caring, man. Do not sell yourself short. Break the addiction, you can do this. Demand the best for your life.


Thanks CoGuy. Bloody many thanks! Yes, u are right. Thankfully he didn't get in touch with me this afternoon. By this evening I am back to ok again. Now I am still ok. He has been in touch and I was unwavering again...phew! Thankyou for all your support Xx

This pattern I have to break. Been here so many times. Always on our free time I give in and see him again. Particularly on our free weekends. This is our free weekend without the children (seperate children, not shared). If I can get through this weekend it will be a very very very good sign.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

CoGuy, I have got to thank you for all your support. I got through that weekend, and then lost it on the Sunday. I feel an idiot. And I have since put a further post regarding my relationship. I so wish he could be believable and that I could trust him. Or that I could just break the addiction. Because there is a chance he could be telling the truth then it makes it so difficult to break it off. He IS the love of my life. Really! That is not delusional speaking. We are perfect together, we think we are, and all our friends and family think so too. He happily does everything I need to feel safe and secure. 

I just wanted to say sorry to you really, I feel I betrayed your support. And I know how that must make me and my actions totally frustrating. Thankyou though, to you and the other posters who have given their much needed and appreciated advice and support. I am now considering going for the lie detector option, he offered himself before Christmas, it didn't even occur to me. So I think that is my only way forward. That or break up....again....for good this time!.....again!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains, go back and read your posts. Not as yourself, pretend that someone else wrote what you wrote, that you know nothing about their relationship other than what you have posted. What do you think of the person that posted that stuff? What do you think of the man she is posting about? What advice would you give her?

There is more than enough incriminating evidence here. Lie detector for what? He has cheated multiple times and lied to you. There's no more information that is needed.

Practically, a lie detector test can be beaten.

As for a relationship, you think this is the best you can do? He CHEATED ON YOU MULTIPLE TIMES.

Look I'm all for reconciliation. I'm still with my wife and glad I made that decision. But this guy is bad news and you know it. You want to believe he's your fairy tale prince. The feelings you get when he's "hot" and you get a glimpse of his good side makes you forget the feeling you get when he's "cold" and all the horrible rotten things he's done and how dishonest of a person he is.

It's your life, you can choose to be back with him. Just understand that nothing will change. He'll continue to be hot and cold and hide things. You'll continue to wonder if he's cheating on you again. Is this the life you want for the next 10,20,30,40 years? What do your counsellors say?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Remains - you remind me of myself in the relationship I was in before I met my H.

Always wanting to believe, to love, that he would stop. Just stop the lies, stop the deceiving stop everything. That he would eventually love you as much as you loved him. You trusted, time after time again only to be betrayed even greater the next time. Your self confidence is down to nothing and you feel so lost. You know you are not the same confident person you were at the beginning of the relationship...BUT YOU JUST KNOW HE WILL CHANGE

He won't. And you will be emotionally scared and have difficulties in your future relationships. I am dealing with issues in my current marriage due to the crap I didn't deal with that my ex did to me and how he treated me. 

YOU DESERVE BETTER AND DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS!!!! Please. Don't torture yourself any longer.


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

vi_bride04 said:


> Remains - you remind me of myself in the relationship I was in before I met my H.
> 
> Always wanting to believe, to love, that he would stop. Just stop the lies, stop the deceiving stop everything. That he would eventually love you as much as you loved him. You trusted, time after time again only to be betrayed even greater the next time. Your self confidence is down to nothing and you feel so lost. You know you are not the same confident person you were at the beginning of the relationship...BUT YOU JUST KNOW HE WILL CHANGE
> 
> ...


Remains,.. Vi is right... same for me too. You love him so much you don't want to abandon him. He won't change unless he is remorseful, he isn't he denys it. he doesn't respect you he takes you for a fool. He is a cake eater. You know this. Break the cycle.

PS: Vi..been married 16 years to the most wonderful man but still get "triggered" by things that remind me of what my ex-fiance cheating liar did. Can't even watch movies with cheating in them, because my heart races and I feel ill. I fell bad for hubby because he sees this in me and it hurts his feelings that he cannot "fix it" but he always handles it well, and loves my anyway. 

Remains....look for this kind of guy (my & vi hubby), drop the one you have. He is telling you what you wnt to hear because it works for him. It will not be easy, but worth it.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

reset button said:


> Remains,.. Vi is right... same for me too. You love him so much you don't want to abandon him. He won't change unless he is remorseful, he isn't he denys it. he doesn't respect you he takes you for a fool. He is a cake eater. You know this. Break the cycle.
> 
> PS: Vi..been married 16 years to the most wonderful man but still get "triggered" by things that remind me of what my ex-fiance cheating liar did. Can't even watch movies with cheating in them, because my heart races and I feel ill. I fell bad for hubby because he sees this in me and it hurts his feelings that he cannot "fix it" but he always handles it well, and loves my anyway.
> 
> Remains....look for this kind of guy (my & vi hubby), drop the one you have. He is telling you what you wnt to hear because it works for him. It will not be easy, but worth it.


PLEASE LISTEN REMAINS!!!! We know what we are talking about!! There are guys out there who will love us for who we are, no matter what quirks or scars we have!!! 

Reset has a 16 yr marriage to a man who accepts her and I have an 8yr marriage. There is life after losers! Just see you are worth something. That is the first step to getting out.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks guys. I hear you, but he was remorseful. I got the info out of him with no more proof than 'I know, I know and you'd better tell me or we are finished'. Admittedly it took 5 phone calls and a stream of texts, but he finally broke and gave it to me. Then he came over the next day and talked all to me. He talked a lot following that, then he believed we had talked enough and the problems began. Over that time I have pushed hard for what I need, we are now at the point he gives all I need, is more open with me, texts and calls when I need him to, came back last Nov with my name tattooed on his arm (that is definitely a sign of commitment from him, he is far removed from the kind of stereotypical man that tattoos himself), he is the kind of man I want, kind, helpful, loving, if I am doing something in the house he gets up and helps me, he cooks for me, if he sees something that needs doing he does it. I don't have to ask him. He is very different to any man I have ever been with or know. None of my friends have a man who is so considerate and helpful. If something needs fixing he fixes it. I realise this all sounds like excuses, they are not. They are what make it so difficult to decide what to do. Because he is my perfect man, and I know he is totally dedicated to me now. He is not a typical cheater/loser. 

Do I sound pathetic?

CoGuy, I thank you as ever for your input. I am going to reread my post as soon as I have an opportunity to do so. Remove myself from it. This is what I meant to do every time I wavered. I did not!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Remains said:


> Thanks guys. I hear you, but he was remorseful. I got the info out of him with no more proof than 'I know, I know and you'd better tell me or we are finished'. Admittedly it took 5 phone calls and a stream of texts, but he finally broke and gave it to me. Then he came over the next day and talked all to me. He talked a lot following that, then he believed we had talked enough and the problems began. Over that time I have pushed hard for what I need, we are now at the point he gives all I need, is more open with me, texts and calls when I need him to, came back last Nov with my name tattooed on his arm (that is definitely a sign of commitment from him, he is far removed from the kind of stereotypical man that tattoos himself), he is the kind of man I want, kind, helpful, loving, if I am doing something in the house he gets up and helps me, he cooks for me, if he sees something that needs doing he does it. I don't have to ask him. He is very different to any man I have ever been with or know. None of my friends have a man who is so considerate and helpful. If something needs fixing he fixes it. I realise this all sounds like excuses, they are not. They are what make it so difficult to decide what to do. Because he is my perfect man, and I know he is totally dedicated to me now. He is not a typical cheater/loser.
> 
> Do I sound pathetic?
> 
> CoGuy, I thank you as ever for your input. I am going to reread my post as soon as I have an opportunity to do so. Remove myself from it. This is what I meant to do every time I wavered. I did not!


You don't sound pathetic, you sound hopeful and naive (not to say that condescendingly). This man cheated on you and lied to you and for a few days has shown "remorse." A man that cooks and cleans and treats you like a queen and then lies and sleeps around is not a good man.

I do not care that he doesn't act like a cheater. He cheated. And then he lied. And then you admitted he has a history of being hot and cold. You showed on your posts that he ignored you and you had to force yourself on him.

I don't know you personally, from what you post it sounds like you are in love with a fairy tale. You want this guy to be so great that you are willing to ignore huge flaws in his character. You are willing to overlook major concerns because you think he is such a great guy. Those of us that are not addicted to him can see very plainly that he is an a$$ and not worthy of your time.

In a few sentences all of us have seen enough to know that this guy is an a$$hat, he could be the greatest guy in the world after that and it wouldn't make up for the way he treats you.

Expect him to be the world's greatest guy and say all the right things "I'm so sorry" "I don't know what I was thinking" "you're all I ever want" "I'll never do that again" "I can't believe I hurt you"...for a few days, weeks, maybe months. Till he gets bored or knows he can get away with it and he starts cheating again. Or acting "cold" to you. There's men out there who would give their all to accept you and love you and would never hurt you like that. Get addicted to one of those guys.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

My Ex "seemed" remorseful at one point. 

The problem I had was that I really wanted to believe the good things she said - and didn't want to believe the rest.

I look back now and know the only remorse she had was about getting caught. And had I not really wanted things to work out - I would have been able to see that it was a bunch of half-assed BS.

And to echo what others are saying - there really are a lot of good men out there.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

COguy said:


> You don't sound pathetic, you sound hopeful and naive (not to say that condescendingly). This man cheated on you and lied to you and for a few days has shown "remorse." A man that cooks and cleans and treats you like a queen and then lies and sleeps around is not a good man.
> 
> I do not care that he doesn't act like a cheater. He cheated. And then he lied. And then you admitted he has a history of being hot and cold. You showed on your posts that he ignored you and you had to force yourself on him.
> 
> ...


The thing is, he was what u say for the 1st year we were together. He didn't treat me particularly well. And become so different since Oct 2010 when I finished the relationship and stopped loving him. He begged me back and I relented with the proviso that I didn't know if I loved him anymore and wasn't sure if ever would. He knows I am no doormat. So, for the last year and half he has been the man I describe.

Treating me well didn't come as a result of me finding out. He was all I said he is before I found out. That is his personality. That is why I find it so difficult to leave. I have never met a man as loving and helpful and considerate. Since I found out we have had problems but he has gradually come round to giving me what I need and knowing that is the right and only way forward. What happened was right at the beginning of our relationship and not long after his last one had finished. That was a very damaging relationship and he brought a lot of baggage with him. He was no angel, he was an arse too, but she was a bit*h. And he responds well to loving, caring and so on. She was not that. What she had to offer was sex. And that is why he allowed her to treat him as a doormat. He was very much a doormat in his previous relationship, he got treated like one and allowed her to do so. It took some time for him to get over that I believe.

I agree with u on the part of 'til he gets bored and thinks he can get away with it and cheats again'. I have to decide if that is a risk I am prepared to take. That is a very real risk in any relationship, and also with the amount of pain this has caused, the amount of difficulty it has caused, and the way he has looked at himself in a big way (he has never had to do this before) then maybe it is a risk worth taking. Certainly my threshold for taking any sh*t from him is very low. He knows if this was repeated, along with certain other behaviours, then it would be the end. I am now hyper aware and think I would know if he ever crossed the line again, and if he did then he very much should know that that would be the end so 'it' had better be worth it. I can only believe him now or move on. And if he is telling the truth (I think he may actually be, I don't think he would still be here considering the pressure I have put him under to tell me what my suspicions tell me. I think he wd've cracked by now) then I would be giving up on something really good. I am not naive, I am hopeful. He does everything to make me feel secure, calls me regularly when we are apart etc, and that is not something I have requested. That is something that is borne out of me expressing my worries to him. So...I am kind of hopeful.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Just one thing about your post.

I don't think that getting bored and cheating is a risk in any relationship. At least not the same level of risk you are dealing with.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> Just one thing about your post.
> 
> I don't think that getting bored and cheating is a risk in any relationship. At least not the same level of risk you are dealing with.


I do agree. In my relationship it is a proven risk. But at least I can be confident in putting things in place so it doesn't repeat. I am clued up. In another relationship it is also a real risk, how many people on here who 1st come and are in shock. Never believed it would happen. Thought their partner would never ever ever do such a thing. I agree that meeting someone else would be slightly less risk, and I know the behaviours, the excuses, to look out for now. But this man is one that I would be hard pressed to find all his good qualities in again. As I have said, very kind, considerate, very loving, we have same interests, sex is great, he makes me laugh on a very large scale, the most mundane stuff is fun with him, the list goes on. That is why I have struggled to cut my losses and let go. And he loves me very very much, deals with my feistiness perfectly, loves all about me. He loves the difficult aspects of my personality, as I do his. Yeah there are negatives, no it it is not all roses. This is the only sticking point.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

And another - your H has Earned the suspicions. He's under the microscope because you were kind enough to give him and the marriage a second chance.


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