# Trying to understand what was real after wife told me she was having an affair for 2.5 years



## Mrchiller

hi all. So I posted once here in summer asking for advice as I felt disconnected with my wife of 14 years. We have 3 amazing boys; aged 11, 9 and 5. Long and short of it, she confessed end Sept that she was having an affair the last 2.5 years with her personal trainer. It was on and off and emotional and sexual. Now I don’t want to get into the detail by she wasn’t looking for an affair but I was seriously depressed at the time and she was vulnerable and I’m sure her AP played her. After she told me she did all the right things without me prompting: cut all ties, threw away any items that were connected, had tests (she had unprotected sex), turns out she picked him an STI from him (the harmless one). We’ve been trying to reconnect, having therapy and I’ve since found myself totally besotted by her. Like totally loved up. Feel emotionally closer. Sex is awful, passion is not there but we hug, hold hands and kiss on lips - mostly prompted by me. She has sent me lovely text messages to say how much she appreciates me and loves me. She says her head is messed up, has some feelings for her AP, understandably but wants to spend her life with me. We’ve had highs and lows the last 3 months, but we are communicating so much better. We laugh so much like the old days and I see that glow in her eyes that shows love. But I need advice:

I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?
our marriage lacked passion when I got depressed. I’ve lost my confidence (her AP was a heavy muscled 6ft guy 9 years younger than me. I’m 11 years older than my wife who is 36. Help here.
I’ve been getting nightmares about her having another affair or not being able to speak. They are so real and scary
she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop
my head is filled with clutter. My self esteem is so low but I wake up everyday positive. I know she’s having a hard time as well and she also said she doesn’t know what was real.
any books,talks that can help
I get anxiety attacks. Is that normal?
I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue
she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.
any help or advice would be so much appreciated. Thanks.


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## Livvie

So she has an affair, says she still has feelings for him, the sex between you two is awful and there is no passion, and she doesn't like to hug or kiss you.

What more do you need to finally want to end the marriage to this person?

I'm asking for real. Like, why on Earth isn't the above enough?


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## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> her head is messed up, has some feelings for her AP, understandably but wants to spend her life with me.


Let me "decode" this message for you.

This means she has fun with her boy toy while you pay the bills. She wants to spend her life in security, while she gets her jollies elsewhere.



Mrchiller said:


> I know she’s having a hard time as well


100%, unmitigated CRAP. She's having a good time. She's doing what she WANTS to do.



Mrchiller said:


> she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop


See....you know the REAL story about her.... "not an affectionate person" means she isn't WITH YOU....not anymore.... she only wants what you can provide, not YOU



Mrchiller said:


> I feel she’s compromised and staying with me.


100% correct. She sold out on the fun and kibbles to keep her lifestyle intact.

Throw this worthless POS so far the hell out of your life that it makes her little concupiscent head spin. Give her the just reward of what she has sown.


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## PreRaph

I'm sorry to hear what you're dealing with OP. It is worse than terrible, especially for you given that you already had lost confidence in yourself and she went out and screwed around with a hot hunk much younger than you with all the sexual benefits that it brought for her.

Here's the problem: She's acting all remorseful, doing the right things, etc. etc., but you've rugswept it. It sounds to me like you really haven't come to terms with it --how could you? She was intimate with this guy for 2.5 year for f's sake. That's an eternity. How can she just come back from that and so "Oh I'm sorry I want to make up"? No. How about a time line. Did she tell you everything -- I mean, all the details? Has there been full disclosure?

Her actions sound very fishy. It's like she woke up one day and realized she had too much to lose so she chose plan B: you. She doesnt want to lose her plan B so now she's showing you all the love and affection and sex to make sure she keeps you around.

Now maybe she is truly remorseful and sincere, but chances are that the plan B scenario is part of it. And you fell right into it, so it seems. As you said, the last 2.5 years seem unreal to you, that suggests that you have not yet fully confronted that reality. instead you're glad to receive your WW's affections because it's a good way of pushing it all under the rug.

"I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue." That's the reality my friend. And that's the truth she has not given you.


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## Mrchiller

PreRaph said:


> I'm sorry to hear what you're dealing with OP. It is worse than terrible, especially for you given that you already had lost confidence in yourself and she went out and screwed around with a hot hunk much younger than you with all the sexual benefits that it brought for her.
> 
> Here's the problem: She's acting all remorseful, doing the right things, etc. etc., but you've rugswept it. It sounds to me like you really haven't come to terms with it --how could you? She was intimate with this guy for 2.5 year for f's sake. That's an eternity. How can she just come back from that and so "Oh I'm sorry I want to make up"? No. How about a time line. Did she tell you everything -- I mean, all the details? Has there been full disclosure?
> 
> Her actions sound very fishy. It's like she woke up one day and realized she had too much to lose so she chose plan B: you. She doesnt want to lose her plan B so now she's showing you all the love and affection and sex to make sure she keeps you around.
> 
> Now maybe she is truly remorseful and sincere, but chances are that the plan B scenario is part of it. And you fell right into it, so it seems. As you said, the last 2.5 years seem unreal to you, that suggests that you have not yet fully confronted that reality. instead you're glad to receive your WW's affections because it's a good way of pushing it all under the rug.


Yes there has been full disclosure. Every detail. She’s not “giving me” sex, i want to emotionally connect and the physical side will follow. I know it’s easy to throw rockets at her but she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.
We were and are so compatible. Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus? It’s only been 4 months since she told me. Key phrase, she told me. Not me finding it. The double life was killing her.


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## Mrchiller

TJW said:


> Let me "decode" this message for you.
> 
> This means she has fun with her boy toy while you pay the bills. She wants to spend her life in security, while she gets her jollies elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 100%, unmitigated CRAP. She's having a good time. She's doing what she WANTS to do.
> 
> 
> 
> See....you know the REAL story about her.... "not an affectionate person" means she isn't WITH YOU....not anymore.... she only wants what you can provide, not YOU
> 
> 
> 
> 100% correct. She sold out on the fun and kibbles to keep her lifestyle intact.
> 
> Throw this worthless POS so far the hell out of your life that it makes her little concupiscent head spin. Give her the just reward of what she has sown.


If she told me there were no feelings then she’d be lying. So the fact that she told me that there are feelings shows she is being open. Feelings can’t be switched on or off. Sure some guy was having sex with her and touching my wife in every way possible and that kills me, but if there is 0.0001% chance to repair what was a great marriage before, isn’t it worth that shot?


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## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> if there is 0.0001% chance to repair what was a great marriage before, isn’t it worth that shot?
> Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus?


I think your chance odds are accurate.

After d-day, I felt this way, too. Hysterical bonding came and went, over next couple months. The next year, I "went through the motions" and tried to be the good little church boy I had been raised to be...."trying to salvage" the primary focus. About 15 months after d-day, I came to the complete realization that she totally disgusted me, I wanted absolutely nothing to do with her romantically, not then, not ever.

Any chance of reconciliation was then infinitesimal.

I got the idea of how she so totally and completely disrespected me, who served her in every way. Looking at her made me want to puke.



Mrchiller said:


> The double life was killing her.


no, rather, it was the thought of her single life, the one without money, raising kids as a single mom, etc. She went into "damage control mode". You're an appliance.



Mrchiller said:


> Feelings can’t be switched on or off


Ok, I'll buy that. However, our ACTIONS can be switched on and off. She made a promise before God and witnesses that she would CONTROL her actions, "keeping herself only unto" you. That promise has been broken, due to her lack of respect for God, her children, and her husband.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Mrchiller said:


> hi all. So I posted once here in summer asking for advice as I felt disconnected with my wife of 14 years. We have 3 amazing boys; aged 11, 9 and 5. Long and short of it, she confessed end Sept that she was having an affair the last 2.5 years with her personal trainer. It was on and off and emotional and sexual. Now I don’t want to get into the detail by she wasn’t looking for an affair but I was seriously depressed at the time and she was vulnerable and I’m sure her AP played her. After she told me she did all the right things without me prompting: cut all ties, threw away any items that were connected, had tests (she had unprotected sex), turns out she picked him an STI from him (the harmless one). We’ve been trying to reconnect, having therapy and I’ve since found myself totally besotted by her. Like totally loved up. Feel emotionally closer. Sex is awful, passion is not there but we hug, hold hands and kiss on lips - mostly prompted by me. She has sent me lovely text messages to say how much she appreciates me and loves me. She says her head is messed up, has some feelings for her AP, understandably but wants to spend her life with me. We’ve had highs and lows the last 3 months, but we are communicating so much better. We laugh so much like the old days and I see that glow in her eyes that shows love. But I need advice:
> 
> I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?
> our marriage lacked passion when I got depressed. I’ve lost my confidence (her AP was a heavy muscled 6ft guy 9 years younger than me. I’m 11 years older than my wife who is 36. Help here.
> I’ve been getting nightmares about her having another affair or not being able to speak. They are so real and scary
> she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop
> my head is filled with clutter. My self esteem is so low but I wake up everyday positive. I know she’s having a hard time as well and she also said she doesn’t know what was real.
> any books,talks that can help
> I get anxiety attacks. Is that normal?
> I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue
> she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.
> any help or advice would be so much appreciated. Thanks.


You, sir, have overdosed on “hopium”. What you desire will never be.

From the outside looking in, you do not really have a marriage. Where is her remorse? Where is her respect for you? Not an affectionate person....hmmmm...for 2.5 year sure was with her trainer.

My advice as a BS is move on without her. She is toxic for you. I sense that you mention self esteem, that is the crux of the matter. You need her out of your life to heal. You should consider therapy for you and strive to become stronger, self-reliant, and the best person you can be for your children. Your children need a good role model to emulate, right now that is not you, and by no way is your wife is likely a Role model.

Start by reading “No more Mr. Nice Guy” as well as Larry Winget’s “Grow a Pair”.

The sooner you file for divorce and get into therapy, the sooner your life will take an upward turn. Be strong,face reality head on, and rip off the bandaid.


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## Gabriel

That is a long affair. There is no way someone can cut that off cold turkey. Even though she says she ended contact, I'm betting she will break at some point. 

Okay, what is more believable....that after 2.5 years she suddenly came to Jesus and felt bad all of a sudden?

Or, that her boyfriend dumped her?

I'm going with the latter. And that she probably would still be bonking him if he hadn't.

Your wife is a cake eater, my friend. You are just a placeholder.

Tell her you think you want a divorce, that this is too much to recover from. Watch her reaction closely. If she gets really angry and desperate, then you know I was right.


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## jlg07

Mrchiller said:


> I know it’s easy to throw rockets at her but she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.


NO -- get THAT idea out of your head. If SHE felt so bad and so alone, she should have divorced you. It is 100% on HER that she decided to cheat. HER cheating is HER flaw, and NOT caused by you. DO NOT think that way. YOU should not be taking blame for her cheating. For issues in the MARRIAGE, yes, but not the cheating.


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## Gabriel

Mrchiller said:


> I’m 99.99% sure she has never cheated on me. She’s on her phone 5 hours a day every day, so that’s why it’s not 100%


Your post 5 months ago. And in reading your other thread....this marriage has no shot. 

Her sudden wanting to be with you has ZERO to do with guilt and change of heart. It only has to do with change in her circumstances. Her other option dried up.


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## jlg07

From your other post, you OWN words:


Mrchiller said:


> Her family have disowned her practically and I fear she’s scared of losing the security of a home, decent lifestyle and kids not being traumatised and doesn’t love me. I’m going to be honest I’m 99.99% sure I’m out. I can’t look her in the eye without seeing this guy on top of her - her personal trainer might I add who came to our house. I am just heart broken. I am also such an idiot for trusting her and for the last 2 years believing there was something wrong with me. Really feel sick.


He came to your HOUSE? I hate to say this, but your wife does NOT love you --- she loves the life you provide. That is AMAZINGLY disrespectful of you and your marriage. Now you know it was 2.5 years, not 2. What other lies has she told you? This may NOT have been her first affair (from reading your other post).
You need to honestly look and see HER, not the image you have of her. She is NOT who you think she is.


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## Tasorundo

There is nothing to save. Any efforts to try and make this livable will further push you into insecurity and insanity.

Your mind is unwilling to make sense of it, because it is a nonsensical proposition.


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## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?


Yes, and yes. None of this was "real". You are "plan B".....only because "plan A" dumped her. If he hadn't, she would have still been doing the horizontal bop with him and continuing to hide it from you, so she could keep her "life" (the one which didn't romantically include you) intact.....

You were "plan A" until Mr. Younger and Mr. More Attractive came along. Now, you will never be anything but "plan B". You are now married to an "alpha widow"......

*ALPHA WIDOW*



Mrchiller said:


> I can’t look her in the eye without seeing this guy on top of her -


Sorry to have to say it.... but you never will.


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## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> She’s not “giving me” sex, i want to emotionally connect and the physical side will follow. I know it’s easy to throw rockets at her but


I'm living in a glass house. In my first marriage I had affairs, multiple. So, I am not about to be throwing rocks.

2.5 years isn't an affair. It's a relationship.

The physical side frequently does _not_ follow, especially when the marriage lacked passion before the affair.



Mrchiller said:


> she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.


Your depression is not a "trigger" or an excuse. She cheated because she wanted to and, in her head, your depression made a great justification to do what she wanted. Period. She could have told you to seek help or she'd leave, then follow through with a divorce if you refused to seek help. She decided to repeatedly betray you for 2.5 years while having a relationship with another man instead.

"*I* have unmet wants/needs. *I* don't want to leave my husband, but *I* do want to have a relationship with this other man here, so *I*'m going to keep them both!"

Lot of "I" in there.
Selfish. As. Hell.

Here's a clue. If she was worried about your mental health due to severe depression she NEVER would have had an affair. She knew you were mentally unstable. She knew, should she be caught, you'd be devastated in an already fragile state and she did it anyway because her wants and needs were more important to her than you or your marriage.




Mrchiller said:


> We were and are so compatible. Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus? It’s only been 4 months since she told me. Key phrase, she told me. Not me finding it. The double life was killing her.


Are you also selfish? Are you also capable of lying to your spouse for years on end? Are you also the kind of person who would cheat on their spouse while said spouse is having a mental health crisis? No? Than you really aren't compatible.

Do I think salvaging a marriage should be the primary focus? No. Sometimes, often, there isn't really much to save. Especially once the BS realizes they can never go back. It will never be what it once was, ever. You'll always wonder. You'll never fully trust her. You'll have triggers and mind movies for years, possibly decades. And that's the tip of the iceberg.

Also, curious, where was all that guilt and remorse when she betrayed you repeatedly for over 2 years? She may regret it now that it's over, but when it was still going on she sure didn't feel bad about it. At least, not bad enough to, ya know, stop having a romantic relationship behind her husband's back.



Mrchiller said:


> if there is 0.0001% chance to repair what was a great marriage before, isn’t it worth that shot?


The "great marriage" wasn't great or the affair would never have happened.

The marriage you had is dead. She killed it with her 2.5 year relationship with her trainer. Whatever marriage you may build with her going forward is not that marriage. It has been altered, changed, and will never be the same, feel the same, for either of you.

The question you have to ask yourself is "Is it worth building a lesser version of a marriage with someone I know can and will betray me when I am at my lowest and most vulnerable?"


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## Mrchiller

MJJEAN said:


> I'm living in a glass house. In my first marriage I had affairs, multiple. So, I am not about to be throwing rocks.
> 
> 2.5 years isn't an affair. It's a relationship.
> 
> The physical side frequently does _not_ follow, especially when the marriage lacked passion before the affair.
> 
> 
> 
> Your depression is not a "trigger" or an excuse. She cheated because she wanted to and, in her head, your depression made a great justification to do what she wanted. Period. She could have told you to seek help or she'd leave, then follow through with a divorce if you refused to seek help. She decided to repeatedly betray you for 2.5 years while having a relationship with another man instead.
> 
> "*I* have unmet wants/needs. *I* don't want to leave my husband, but *I* do want to have a relationship with this other man here, so *I*'m going to keep them both!"
> 
> Lot of "I" in there.
> Selfish. As. Hell.
> 
> Here's a clue. If she was worried about your mental health due to severe depression she NEVER would have had an affair. She knew you were mentally unstable. She knew, should she be caught, you'd be devastated in an already fragile state and she did it anyway because her wants and needs were more important to her than you or your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you also selfish? Are you also capable of lying to your spouse for years on end? Are you also the kind of person who would cheat on their spouse while said spouse is having a mental health crisis? No? Than you really aren't compatible.
> 
> Do I think salvaging a marriage should be the primary focus? No. Sometimes, often, there isn't really much to save. Especially once the BS realizes they can never go back. It will never be what it once was, ever. You'll always wonder. You'll never fully trust her. You'll have triggers and mind movies for years, possibly decades. And that's the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> Also, curious, where was all that guilt and remorse when she betrayed you repeatedly for over 2 years? She may regret it now that it's over, but when it was still going on she sure didn't feel bad about it. At least, not bad enough to, ya know, stop having a romantic relationship behind her husband's back.
> 
> 
> 
> The "great marriage" wasn't great or the affair would never have happened.
> 
> The marriage you had is dead. She killed it with her 2.5 year relationship with her trainer. Whatever marriage you may build with her going forward is not that marriage. It has been altered, changed, and will never be the same, feel the same, for either of you.
> 
> The question you have to ask yourself is "Is it worth building a lesser version of a marriage with someone I know can and will betray me when I am at my lowest and most vulnerable?"


Honest question. Why is my marriage doomed when there are so many stories of people whose partners have had an affair for years? I get all your comments and thanks for the outside view, it’s great to give me a reality check but she has been remorseful, what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for? Her AP didn’t dump her, she dumped him and showed me the messages. It’s been 4 months no contact.


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## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> hi all. So I posted once here in summer asking for advice as I felt disconnected with my wife of 14 years. We have 3 amazing boys; aged 11, 9 and 5. Long and short of it, she confessed end Sept that she was having an affair the last 2.5 years with her personal trainer. It was on and off and emotional and sexual. Now I don’t want to get into the detail by she wasn’t looking for an affair but I was seriously depressed at the time and she was vulnerable and I’m sure her AP played her. After she told me she did all the right things without me prompting: cut all ties, threw away any items that were connected, had tests (she had unprotected sex), turns out she picked him an STI from him (the harmless one). We’ve been trying to reconnect, having therapy and I’ve since found myself totally besotted by her. Like totally loved up. Feel emotionally closer. Sex is awful, passion is not there but we hug, hold hands and kiss on lips - mostly prompted by me. She has sent me lovely text messages to say how much she appreciates me and loves me. She says her head is messed up, has some feelings for her AP, understandably but wants to spend her life with me. We’ve had highs and lows the last 3 months, but we are communicating so much better. We laugh so much like the old days and I see that glow in her eyes that shows love. But I need advice:
> 
> I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?
> our marriage lacked passion when I got depressed. I’ve lost my confidence (her AP was a heavy muscled 6ft guy 9 years younger than me. I’m 11 years older than my wife who is 36. Help here.
> I’ve been getting nightmares about her having another affair or not being able to speak. They are so real and scary
> she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop
> my head is filled with clutter. My self esteem is so low but I wake up everyday positive. I know she’s having a hard time as well and she also said she doesn’t know what was real.
> any books,talks that can help
> I get anxiety attacks. Is that normal?
> I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue
> she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.
> any help or advice would be so much appreciated. Thanks.


Oh man, this one hit me in the feels! I am so sorry you are dealing with this, Mrchiller. I agree with everyone who says she wants the security of you with fun on the side, she's a cake eater. Unfortunately, she's not who you thought she was, she lacks integrity and honor. 

It's not a good feeling to be competing for your own spouse, especially when it feels like society would think she traded up (younger, newer model). Are you getting therapy to help cope? You sound like you are on the verge of a mental or general health breakdown. I faced similar challenges when I discovered my ex-H's affair. I had a similar betrayal, the affair was on-going for at least 18 months, the first inkling I had was minimized. I was gas-lit, HE cried crocodile tears and begged me not to leave him. Then more lies, more pacification while my health took a beating. 

My advice to you, my friend is to unburden yourself. See a therapist, collect yourself mentally and assess your situation. See a lawyer to determine your rights and the process of divorcing. What she wants now is of no consequence, she lost everything when she decided to step outside your marriage and lie to you for 3 years.

She is no longer, or never was the woman you thought you married. Now is time for you to take care of yourself, so you can be strong enough for your family. I understand the guilt you feel when you withdrew due to depression, but instead of supporting and being there for you, she chose to hop onto someone else's **** to make herself feel good. Don't minimize her actions by excusing them away and blaming her AP for "taking advantage of a vulnerable woman", she made vows to you, he didn't.

Even so, it might take time for you to get ahold of yourself, and decide what to do. You will be ok. Your self-esteem and worth are not determined by the actions of a feckless, faithless woman.


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## Tasorundo

Mrchiller said:


> Honest question. Why is my marriage doomed when there are so many stories of people whose partners have had an affair for years? I get all your comments and thanks for the outside view, it’s great to give me a reality check but she has been remorseful, what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for? Her AP didn’t dump her, she dumped him and showed me the messages. It’s been 4 months no contact.


There aren't. There are stories of ONS, or a brief fling, but the damage done by years long affairs are a different thing. If there was some serious mental illness, abusive past, or some other thing, then there is a possibility that it can be worked on.

She didn't have a 2.5 year relationship with another man, because she loved you so much.

It also doesn't seem like she is really putting in work to make it happen. You say she is still on her phone all the time, is only affectionate when you initiate, and lacks passion for you. Those things aren't just going to change someday unless she is working hard at making them change.

One other note, no one gets 'played' for 2.5 years. Maybe the first time she was tricked, but the 400th time, she chose to be there.


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## Mrchiller

TXTrini said:


> Oh man, this one hit me in the feels! I am so sorry you are dealing with this, Mrchiller. I agree with everyone who says she wants the security of you with fun on the side, she's a cake eater. Unfortunately, she's not who you thought she was, she lacks integrity and honor.
> 
> It's not a good feeling to be competing for your own spouse, especially when it feels like society would think she traded up (younger, newer model). Are you getting therapy to help cope? You sound like you are on the verge of a mental or general health breakdown. I faced similar challenges when I discovered my ex-H's affair. I had a similar betrayal, the affair was on-going for at least 18 months, the first inkling I had was minimized. I was gas-lit, HE cried crocodile tears and begged me not to leave him. Then more lies, more pacification while my health took a beating.
> 
> My advice to you, my friend is to unburden yourself. See a therapist, collect yourself mentally and assess your situation. See a lawyer to determine your rights and the process of divorcing. What she wants now is of no consequence, she lost everything when she decided to step outside your marriage and lie to you for 3 years.
> 
> She is no longer, or never was the woman you thought you married. Now is time for you to take care of yourself, so you can be strong enough for your family. I understand the guilt you feel when you withdrew due to depression, but instead of supporting and being there for you, she chose to hop onto someone else's **** to make herself feel good. Don't minimize her actions by excusing them away and blaming her AP for "taking advantage of a vulnerable woman", she made vows to you, he didn't.
> 
> Even so, it might take time for you to get ahold of yourself, and decide what to do. You will be ok. Your self-esteem and worth are not determined by the actions of a feckless, faithless woman.


Thanks for your kind words. I’ve had loads of therapy the last 4 months. We’re also having couples therapy. I do feel sometimes like I’m going to have a full mental breakdown but I also feel so alive again when I am reconnecting with my wife. I can see it’s easy to throw her under a bus but we have talked endlessly and openly. There were flaws in our marriage. I got depressed to the point of suicide. I nearly took my own life but she saved me, pleaded me to get help, pleaded me for marriage therapy. I ignored. When I got out my depression, she started the affair. I hope this gives more context. My therapist said if our 3 kids thought life was about throwing in the towel at very low point, then every marriage would break down. He says give it a go, not for the kids but if it feels right to me, and it does. I’m just a mental wreck some days like today. Some days, I am positive and full of energy. Just need someone who has made it through the other side to give me some words of wisdom.


----------



## bobert

First off, stop blaming yourself for her actions. Who told you that you triggered her affair? The therapist? Your wife?

Stop blaming yourself. Your wife chose to do this. I know it's easier to blame yourself so you can feel like you have some control in the situation, but you don't. You could have been the best husband in the world and she still could have cheated. You could have been the worst husband in the world and she could have been faithful, or you know... could have divorced.

Maybe her AP did play her, and your wife might not have known what he was doing to manipulate her, but she sure knew what she was doing. Heck, she even told you she wanted to start sleeping with other men, then followed through with that.



> she confessed end Sept that she was having an affair the last 2.5 years


Edit: Nope, she didn't confess because she was guilty and couldn't live with her double life. She confessed because she was scared that you were going to catch her. You said in another post "I even confronted her after posting here in summer when literally everyone said she was, and she denied it with such conviction". So she lied about it, then got freaked out and confessed.

You also say that she told you every detail. Again, I have my doubts and I still think your wife was cheating A LOT longer than she claims (based on what you said in the first thread). As far as I know, my wife has told me everything but the first time she "confessed" she said she slept with one guy something like 7 times... Sure, maybe that _week_. Cheaters lie, all of them. Even if they later come out with the truth. The chance of reconciling is higher than 0.0001%, but the chance of her coming out and telling you the whole truth like that is about 0.0001%.



> After she told me she did all the right things without me prompting


And that IS good. It is. Early on, there were times that I only stayed because my wife was doing everything right. The thing is, you don't know if she's doing that because she genuinely wants to be with you or because she doesn't want everything that comes with divorce. Your wife told you she was only staying because of the kids. She told you she wasn't attracted to you. She told you she thought of you as a brother. Yes, those things can change and feelings can come back, but she could also be scared of losing her SAHM lifestyle.



> she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.


First off, burying your head in the sand won't help at all. You are scared of what you will find but do you really want to keep living a lie? In your other post you said you trusted her and didn't need to look at her phone... now you've found a new excuse to use.

Secondly, your wife needs to knock that off. You say she is doing "everything right" well, there is something she isn't doing right. You need to tell her how it makes you feel when she's on her phone all the time and watch her reaction. Does she say you are overreacting, if so, red flag. Or does she put down the phone and knock it off, permanently.

What else is she doing wrong? You have to initiate the affection, there is no passion, and she is claiming she's just not an affectionate person anymore. You may not like the answer, but she needs to give it to you. I have a feeling the answer is similar to her "I'm not attracted to you, I see you as a brother, I'm only with you for the kids/status" confession.



> I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?


So, I've asked my wife that at times. Her answer was that some of it was fake, some of it was real, and some of it she wanted it to be real. Not the best answer, but an honest one. I can guarantee you the "I love you too's" were often fake. The fun times, laughing, etc. are more likely to be real (in the moment).



> If she told me there were no feelings then she’d be lying. So the fact that she told me that there are feelings shows she is being open. Feelings can’t be switched on or off.


So, you're correct about all of this. This is something your wife should be dealing with in IC. She needs to understand who he really is, which can help with losing those feelings, and she needs to understand how to handle it when the feelings pop back up. One of my wife's APs, she lost the feelings for him pretty quickly once he was out of her life. The other one took longer and even though their affair ended 10.5 years ago she still has feelings pop up sometimes. Your wife NEEDS to learn when to expect that and how to handle it. She cannot just say whoops and that she won't do it again.

As for the nightmares, anxiety, self-esteem issues, comparing yourself to the AP, etc. It's all normal, unfortunately, and it's not going away anytime soon. You would probably expect that if you had any other sort of trauma (car accident, etc.), right? This is trauma as well. You need to work with an IC to work through it. You may also benefit from going on an anti-depressant (or a different/additional one) that works for anxiety as well. I used them for a little under two years until I was ready to stop taking them. Talk to your doctor about that. On that note, you need to be tested for STD's if you haven't already. You should be pissed that she was risking your health like that. You also said she didn't like being on the pill, so she took the added risk of him knocking her up.

Everyone here told me to divorce. I didn't, I'm happy with that decision, and so far it has worked out for me (but remember, everyone's situation is different). So you do you, but you need to open your eyes, slow down, and be cautious. You're not in as good of a spot as you seem to think you are.


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> When I got out my depression, she started the affair


So she started her affair _after _your depression, yet you are using your depression as an excuse for her affair?


----------



## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your kind words. I’ve had loads of therapy the last 4 months. We’re also having couples therapy. I do feel sometimes like I’m going to have a full mental breakdown but I also feel so alive again when I am reconnecting with my wife. I can see it’s easy to throw her under a bus but we have talked endlessly and openly. There were flaws in our marriage. I got depressed to the point of suicide. I nearly took my own life but she saved me, pleaded me to get help, pleaded me for marriage therapy. I ignored. When I got out my depression, she started the affair. I hope this gives more context. My therapist said if our 3 kids thought life was about throwing in the towel at very low point, then every marriage would break down. He says give it a go, not for the kids but if it feels right to me, and it does. I’m just a mental wreck some days like today. Some days, I am positive and full of energy. Just need someone who has made it through the other side to give me some words of wisdom.


You're most welcome, Mrchiller. I know it's not all what you want to hear, but you don't have to kick a person when they're down to deliver unpleasant truths. I'm rather sad hearing your story, b/c your feelings echoed mine. I suppose in my case, it was easier to walk away, b/c I don't have children to consider. 

No-one is trying to throw her under a bus, she did that herself with the choices she made. It's just frustrating to watch someone else do what we've all done to some extent, knowing the futility of it all. I know you can't see this right now, but you are minimizing her actions. You might think she "did good" about waiting until you weren't suicidal to start her affair, but that's much crueler than divorcing you b/c you could not meet her needs. 

Every marriage is as flawed as we are. Other posters mentioned your other thread showed lack of compatibility. You seem to be very thoughtful and introspective, so consider this... 
If the shoe was on the other foot, what would she do? Then think of why you never considered doing anything she did. 

It's hard enough for most people who decide to reconcile to deal, but you've already suffered through some serious mental health issues. Marriage is so hard, life is hard, but it seems like yours is so one-sided. Honestly, I don't know anyone who came out the other side, so I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

In my experience, people who tried to reconcile ended up suffering through a miserable marriage, their kids learned unhealthy relationship models and became adults who perpetuated their childhood. Or, they ended up breaking up eventually and regretting their choice to reconcile as a waste of their life. 

I'm one of the latter. If I had divorced my husband the first time he was disloyal, I wouldn't have wasted more than a decade after fighting for a marriage that ended in heartbreak. Like you, I tried to give it my all, but I reflect on why I held on so long. Maybe some of my conclusions can help you...
I didn't want to "fail" - pride
I believed his words and excused his actions - self-delusional
I was afraid of change - aren't we all?!
Many of my health issues that puzzled my doctor over the years disappeared - the stress was killing me


----------



## Diana7

Firstly stop blaming the OM and thinking she was 'taken advantage of' when she was 'vulnerable', as in when you said this. ' she wasn’t looking for an affair but I was seriously depressed at the time and she was vulnerable and I’m sure her AP played her'. Total nonsense. Thats what you want to think of course, that your wife was the poor little vulnerable woman taken advantage of by the big nasty man, nope. She is a mature(in age) married woman with three children and made that decision for 2 1/2 years to see him again and again and again. She lied and deceived for all that time again and again and again. Sorry but how can you possibly ever trust her again? Is she going to do this every time you are depressed? Someone who can lie and deceive so easily about something so important can't be trusted at all.
Personally I doubt this will work, I think she is just worried about loosing her security. Its entirely possible that she ended it because he didnt want to commit to living with a woman with 3 children.


----------



## Openminded

There obviously are no guarantees with reconciliation. Words are the easy part. Actions are what you look at. Yes, you could be Plan B because Plan A didn’t work out. Don’t focus on her words. Focus on her actions. Keep in mind it takes years to really recover from a spouse’s affair and there are lots of triggers and ups and downs in the process. Sometimes it’s just not possible to recover and you have to walk away. Time will tell which. I wish you the very best.


----------



## Mr.Married

The only reason you know is because she thought you were about to find out. She had some reason to believe she was about to get caught so now she is playing the game as best she can.
2.5 years isn’t an affair..... it’s full on connection both emotionally and physically.

She thought she was about to get caught..... that’s it. Nothing more.

My interpretation of your current circumstance is that your not going to handle this well as a reconciliation.... this is only going to be a huge rug sweep that you will call reconciliation. If I were you I would dump her instantly. You will NEVER get what you need from her.


----------



## Girl_power

I have no experience with cheating so my opinion is probably not as good as the others. 

I think that your number one priority is you. It’s ok not to be ok. Let yourself be not ok for a while. Your doing couples therapy and trying to heal already and it seems a little soon to be honest. 
When I am in survival mode, I do things that just get me by. Things that keep me sane in that moment. That’s how we survival this acute phase. But these things are usually not good for thriving, and they are not good long term coping mechanisms. It seems like you just need to get through this acute phase. Your not mentally stable enough to start the repairing process. And imo if you don’t do things in a certain order, instead of a 2-3 year reconciliation it will never fully be healed and you will be dealing with things 10 years down the road that should be put to bed if that makes Sense. 
It’s time to be selfish. Take your time, be not ok for a while. Yell and scream at your wife if you need to, hit the gym or do whatever you need to do to get your anger and frustration out. Like really feel what she did to you now. Then when your ready, and I mean mentally stable, start the repair process If that’s what you wish to do.


----------



## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for?


Only time well bring you in to "knowing". BTDT. I didn't come into "gnosis" from "agnosis" very quickly. Her words, her actions, over the next 15-or-so months demonstrated that I was a complete fool, a paycheck-on-legs. I have very little compassion for cheaters. I believe they deserve what they get.



TXTrini said:


> people who tried to reconcile ended up suffering through a miserable marriage, their kids learned unhealthy relationship models and became adults who perpetuated their childhood.


That's the worst part of all of this. I watched my son grow up and marry a worthless POS who not only cheated on him, she abused him physically, too. May God reward her according to her works. Her husband stood by her for 21 years and is now in his grave, not due to her actions, but due to cancer.


----------



## Girl_power

And I just want to say when she was making you feel crazy, like there is something wrong with you, when she was the one doing it.... I mean that is really heavy. That is some messed up stuff. That is cruel and there is no justification for that.


----------



## TJW

Girl_power said:


> she was making you feel crazy, like there is something wrong with you, when she was the one doing it....


Cheater's Handbook, Chapter 4. "Gaslighting"....


----------



## TXTrini

TJW said:


> That's the worst part of all of this. I watched my son grow up and marry a worthless POS who not only cheated on him, she abused him physically, too. May God reward her according to her works. Her husband stood by her for 21 years and is now in his grave, not due to her actions, but due to cancer.


I am so sorry to hear this. I'm also scarred by some parts of my childhood, but my mother didn't subject me to witnessing a lifetime of misery, thankfully. I hope your son punted that c... and is doing better. 



Girl_power said:


> And I just want to say when she was making you feel crazy, like there is something wrong with you, when she was the one doing it.... I mean that is really heavy. That is some messed up stuff. That is cruel and there is no justification for that.


THIS^^^
I felt like this for years, he came across like the "reasonable", devoted one who was being so good to me. I thought I was the ****ty one and tried to work on myself and be a better partner and fix everything that was "wrong" with me. 

You feel like you don't know what the heck is real anymore, you doubt yourself and your judgment and believe other people's perspectives instead of what's in front of you. 

I'm finally feeling like the person I used to be - more confident, unafraid to be opinionated, willing to enforce boundaries. But, it takes completely removing yourself from the situation and regaining a sense of self to see it. 

Maybe a separation with some IC for both of you would be helpful if you both seriously want to make a go of it? 
I agree with Girl_power, that it's too soon to work on the marriage. Put on your oxygen mask before you try to help another.


----------



## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> hi all. So I posted once here in summer asking for advice as I felt disconnected with my wife of 14 years. We have 3 amazing boys; aged 11, 9 and 5. Long and short of it, she confessed end Sept that she was having an affair the last 2.5 years with her personal trainer. It was on and off and emotional and sexual. Now I don’t want to get into the detail by she wasn’t looking for an affair but I was seriously depressed at the time and she was vulnerable and I’m sure her AP played her. After she told me she did all the right things without me prompting: cut all ties, threw away any items that were connected, had tests (she had unprotected sex), turns out she picked him an STI from him (the harmless one). We’ve been trying to reconnect, having therapy and I’ve since found myself totally besotted by her. Like totally loved up. Feel emotionally closer. Sex is awful, passion is not there but we hug, hold hands and kiss on lips - mostly prompted by me. She has sent me lovely text messages to say how much she appreciates me and loves me. She says her head is messed up, has some feelings for her AP, understandably but wants to spend her life with me. We’ve had highs and lows the last 3 months, but we are communicating so much better. We laugh so much like the old days and I see that glow in her eyes that shows love. But I need advice:
> 
> I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?
> our marriage lacked passion when I got depressed. I’ve lost my confidence (her AP was a heavy muscled 6ft guy 9 years younger than me. I’m 11 years older than my wife who is 36. Help here.
> I’ve been getting nightmares about her having another affair or not being able to speak. They are so real and scary
> she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop
> my head is filled with clutter. My self esteem is so low but I wake up everyday positive. I know she’s having a hard time as well and she also said she doesn’t know what was real.
> any books,talks that can help
> I get anxiety attacks. Is that normal?
> I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue
> she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.
> any help or advice would be so much appreciated. Thanks.


Sir, every single thing you are feeling is absolutely reasonable and valid. You were betrayed and rejected and lied to for 2.5 years... that comes at a great cost to you. And choosing to reconcile comes at the cost to you and you alone. She has nothing to lose as she already talked herself into losing it all or it not mattering while she had the affair. You alone, have to bear the burden of those costs. You have to handle your trauma, insecurity, distrust, panic attacks (I have had literally hundreds of these since d-day 1) and bear the weight of 2.5 years of _known_ betrayal, alone. I would think it might take at least that amount of time...2.5 years to actually recover to the point where it doesn’t affect you this greatly on a daily basis, with an “ideal” reformed cheater. 


I’m sure you’ve already been suggested a lot of reading material, and maybe this was suggested already before, but _Cheating in a Nutshell_ is a very good read for you to understand why you are feeling this way, and why it is so so normal, including the panic attacks and visual replaying, trauma. Etc. 

Also, please don’t make the mistake of believing it’s over. Very, very, rarely can you make such a determination so soon. I learned that the hard way. Do not put full credence in the words, judge the actions.


----------



## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> Why is my marriage doomed when there are so many stories of people whose partners have had an affair for years?


It doesn't have to be doomed. I've known people who stayed married after an affair. But it is not the marriage it once was, it likely never was that marriage, and whatever marriage it will be now isn't going to be perceived by either of you the same as it was perceived pre-affair. 

So, go into a recovery attempt with eyes wide open. Even if both of you can be together after what's happened, it won't be the same as it was before. Don't even try to get back to where you were year 2 or whatever period was the heyday of the relationship. It's more like dating someone you like who is familiar and you have history with, but who you know some unsavory things about and you're trying to figure out if you can live with those things. 



Mrchiller said:


> she has been remorseful, what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for?


The reality is you will never know.



Mrchiller said:


> Her AP didn’t dump her, she dumped him and showed me the messages. It’s been 4 months no contact.


I dumped a few of my AP's, too. It had nothing to do with my then husband and everything to do with me. I knew it wasn't going anywhere and I was ready to end it and move on.

They had an emotional involvement as well as a physical relationship. She stayed in that relationship for 2.5 years and then she broke up with him. The fact that she is the one that ended it doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that she was with him for 2.5 years. 

And, hell, the fact that she was the one to tell you has more to do with her than you. She felt bad, so she decided to relieve her conscience by confessing. And here's the real thing about that. She didn't feel too bad about it for the 2.5 years she was betraying you by having a relationship with him. She didn't feel bad enough to stop it and confess, say , 2 months in. Her conscience only kicked in when she was done with him. That should concern you.


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## Enigma32

I have been an avid gym enthusiast for a long time now. Many of these young, good looking, in-shape male personal trainers are hooking up with several of their female clients. It's always the older married women that pay these young guys for training for a reason, they like being around those good looking younger guys. I see this all the time in the gyms I have attended. If it were me, and my wife was paying one of these guys, I would be concerned right away. Especially if she is sticking with this guy for a length of time. You mean to tell me that after 6 months to a year of working out with a trainer that she still doesn't know how to work out on her own? BS. She was paying that dude for the affair.

Like others have said here, she only confessed to you after 2.5 years for a reason. Maybe he got tired of hooking up with her. Maybe she finally got tired of him. There is also a good chance that someone else knows of this affair and she's worried that the news of it will get back to you, so she wanted to confess first to get her story in place before you found out some other way. There was pretty older married woman hooking up with a young trainer at my current gym and literally everyone at the gym knew about it other than her husband. 

If I was you, I would do what I needed to do to get away from this girl. She obviously has no respect or desire for you in any way aside from the lifestyle that you provide for her. I would rather provide that lifestyle for a woman that actually loved me.


----------



## farsidejunky

Mrchiller said:


> If she told me there were no feelings then she’d be lying. So the fact that she told me that there are feelings shows she is being open. Feelings can’t be switched on or off. Sure some guy was having sex with her and touching my wife in every way possible and that kills me, but if there is 0.0001% chance to repair what was a great marriage before, isn’t it worth that shot?


You are half right here.

Is she being honest? Her words...mostly...maybe truthful...

Her actions? 100% truthful. Her actions tell you her passion for you is gone. 

Is what you are doing with that truth healthy?

NO.

You are lying to yourself in saying that as long as she is honest, you can proceed with reconciliation. 

Furthermore, how do you feel about yourself in instantly forgiving someone who ****ed their trainer behind your back for 2.5 years? 


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Mrchiller

bobert said:


> First off, stop blaming yourself for her actions. Who told you that you triggered her affair? The therapist? Your wife?
> 
> Stop blaming yourself. Your wife chose to do this. I know it's easier to blame yourself so you can feel like you have some control in the situation, but you don't. You could have been the best husband in the world and she still could have cheated. You could have been the worst husband in the world and she could have been faithful, or you know... could have divorced.
> 
> Maybe her AP did play her, and your wife might not have known what he was doing to manipulate her, but she sure knew what she was doing. Heck, she even told you she wanted to start sleeping with other men, then followed through with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Nope, she didn't confess because she was guilty and couldn't live with her double life. She confessed because she was scared that you were going to catch her. You said in another post "I even confronted her after posting here in summer when literally everyone said she was, and she denied it with such conviction". So she lied about it, then got freaked out and confessed.
> 
> You also say that she told you every detail. Again, I have my doubts and I still think your wife was cheating A LOT longer than she claims (based on what you said in the first thread). As far as I know, my wife has told me everything but the first time she "confessed" she said she slept with one guy something like 7 times... Sure, maybe that _week_. Cheaters lie, all of them. Even if they later come out with the truth. The chance of reconciling is higher than 0.0001%, but the chance of her coming out and telling you the whole truth like that is about 0.0001%.
> 
> 
> 
> And that IS good. It is. Early on, there were times that I only stayed because my wife was doing everything right. The thing is, you don't know if she's doing that because she genuinely wants to be with you or because she doesn't want everything that comes with divorce. Your wife told you she was only staying because of the kids. She told you she wasn't attracted to you. She told you she thought of you as a brother. Yes, those things can change and feelings can come back, but she could also be scared of losing her SAHM lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, burying your head in the sand won't help at all. You are scared of what you will find but do you really want to keep living a lie? In your other post you said you trusted her and didn't need to look at her phone... now you've found a new excuse to use.
> 
> Secondly, your wife needs to knock that off. You say she is doing "everything right" well, there is something she isn't doing right. You need to tell her how it makes you feel when she's on her phone all the time and watch her reaction. Does she say you are overreacting, if so, red flag. Or does she put down the phone and knock it off, permanently.
> 
> What else is she doing wrong? You have to initiate the affection, there is no passion, and she is claiming she's just not an affectionate person anymore. You may not like the answer, but she needs to give it to you. I have a feeling the answer is similar to her "I'm not attracted to you, I see you as a brother, I'm only with you for the kids/status" confession.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I've asked my wife that at times. Her answer was that some of it was fake, some of it was real, and some of it she wanted it to be real. Not the best answer, but an honest one. I can guarantee you the "I love you too's" were often fake. The fun times, laughing, etc. are more likely to be real (in the moment).
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're correct about all of this. This is something your wife should be dealing with in IC. She needs to understand who he really is, which can help with losing those feelings, and she needs to understand how to handle it when the feelings pop back up. One of my wife's APs, she lost the feelings for him pretty quickly once he was out of her life. The other one took longer and even though their affair ended 10.5 years ago she still has feelings pop up sometimes. Your wife NEEDS to learn when to expect that and how to handle it. She cannot just say whoops and that she won't do it again.
> 
> As for the nightmares, anxiety, self-esteem issues, comparing yourself to the AP, etc. It's all normal, unfortunately, and it's not going away anytime soon. You would probably expect that if you had any other sort of trauma (car accident, etc.), right? This is trauma as well. You need to work with an IC to work through it. You may also benefit from going on an anti-depressant (or a different/additional one) that works for anxiety as well. I used them for a little under two years until I was ready to stop taking them. Talk to your doctor about that. On that note, you need to be tested for STD's if you haven't already. You should be pissed that she was risking your health like that. You also said she didn't like being on the pill, so she took the added risk of him knocking her up.
> 
> Everyone here told me to divorce. I didn't, I'm happy with that decision, and so far it has worked out for me (but remember, everyone's situation is different). So you do you, but you need to open your eyes, slow down, and be cautious. You're not in as good of a spot as you seem to think you are.


Thanks f


bobert said:


> So she started her affair _after _your depression, yet you are using your depression as an excuse for her affair?


No not at all. I’m not justifying what she did or blaming myself. Affairs don’t happen for a reason, there is a trigger and my depressive state was that trigger.


----------



## Tasorundo

Mrchiller said:


> Affairs don’t happen for a reason, there is a trigger and my depressive state was that trigger.


No.

You did not trigger her affair. She triggered her affair. As a guy, that had one, there was nothing my wife did to trigger it, that should not have been dealt with by me, in a better manner.

That's like saying "Why'd you make me hit you?"


----------



## Totally T

TJW said:


> Let me "decode" this message for you.
> 
> This means she has fun with her boy toy while you pay the bills. She wants to spend her life in security, while she gets her jollies elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 100%, unmitigated CRAP. She's having a good time. She's doing what she WANTS to do.
> 
> 
> 
> See....you know the REAL story about her.... "not an affectionate person" means she isn't WITH YOU....not anymore.... she only wants what you can provide, not YOU
> 
> 
> 
> 100% correct. She sold out on the fun and kibbles to keep her lifestyle intact.
> 
> Throw this worthless POS so far the hell out of your life that it makes her little concupiscent head spin. Give her the just reward of what she has sown.


----------



## Totally T

This is just a sad one to read.


----------



## Enigma32

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks f
> 
> No not at all. I’m not justifying what she did or blaming myself. Affairs don’t happen for a reason, there is a trigger and my depressive state was that trigger.


The trigger for your affair was your wife seeing some dude she wanted to smash, nothing more. Right now, you are feeling pretty crappy about yourself and with good reason. This is a mindset you need to escape from though. Sitting around taking blame for your wife cheating on you is not healthy behavior.


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## Evinrude58

You are the only person that can determine if you can still have a happy marriage after a total betrayal. 
She dumped him after 2.5yrs. Don’t think that she suddenly was so guilt ridden she stopped. There’s another factor here that you don’t know about. It was going on 2.5 yrs. A conscience doesn’t grow out of thin air after 2.5 yrs. Either she got tired of him or something else is going on.
We can’t tell you how to get over this. Nobody can. But I think you’re doing some things right.
Question: what consequences have you given your wife, or shown your wife of her actions? Because if you stay and there’s no consequences, it will happen again most likely.


----------



## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks f
> 
> No not at all. I’m not justifying what she did or blaming myself. Affairs don’t happen for a reason, there is a trigger and my depressive state was that trigger.


No. Nothing you did or didn't do "triggered" her affair. Men and women are married to prisoners, military personnel, those who travel for work, and the mentally ill without having affairs. Your wife is not like those people. She met a man she wanted to have a relationship with and she used your mental illness as an excuse to do what she wanted to do. Meanwhile, world over, spouses make the decision to either honorably leave or remain faithful in similar and even much worse conditions.


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## AttaBoy

Mrchiller said:


> Yes there has been full disclosure. Every detail.


Really? I mean, really? How do you know? 2.5 years and you haven't dug into her phone, and the bills, or had her create a detailed timeline? I don't you you know half of it. It is clear to me after reading all of your posts that you've had your bell rung and you're still struggling to grasp your reality moving forward. . 
Which came first, your severe depression, or your relationship with your wife? Important consideration when you claim a high level of compatibility. 
If you haven't gone through the phone, the bills, the timeline (followed by one or more polygraphs) then you don't have any idea what you are reconciling. I couldn't do that. 
Your nightmares are drawn from all the unknowns, and all the unanswered ?????s.


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## Evinrude58

Damn dude. You think you “triggered” her affair ? (I just read the rest of your thread)
That’s some ass backward thinking that you need to run past your therapist.

You are never going to get what you need from this woman. You want your wife back. She’s gone. She doesn’t love you anymore and that’s why she’s not giving you any affection. It’s easy for us to see this because we are t the ones hurting, you are. But if you send her packing, you can find someone that does love you and it may take a while but you‘ll be happy again. Stay with your cheater and you’ll be miserable .

Not a lot of choices here.


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## frusdil

Mrchiller said:


> I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. *How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years.* I had no clue


You don't know. Your wife didn't have a one night stand or a 3 month fling. She had a two and half YEAR affair. Only confessing because you were onto her. It would still be going on had you not confronted her initially. You CANNOT trust her. She's a cheater, cheaters lie.



Mrchiller said:


> Yes there has been full disclosure. Every detail. She’s not “giving me” sex, i want to emotionally connect and the physical side will follow. I know it’s easy to throw rockets at her but *she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.*
> We were and are so compatible. Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus? It’s only been 4 months since she told me. Key phrase, she told me. Not me finding it. The double life was killing her.


No. While your depression was hard for her to bear, it is not the reason that she CHOSE to cheat. The problems in the marriage are on both of you. The affair is 100% on her.


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## Mr.Married

The good news for her is your buying into the lie that your depression is why she cheated.


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## oldshirt

MJJEAN said:


> I dumped a few of my AP's, too. It had nothing to do with my then husband and everything to do with me. I knew it wasn't going anywhere and I was ready to end it and move on.
> 
> They had an emotional involvement as well as a physical relationship. She stayed in that relationship for 2.5 years and then she broke up with him. The fact that she is the one that ended it doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that she was with him for 2.5 years.
> 
> And, hell, the fact that she was the one to tell you has more to do with her than you. She felt bad, so she decided to relieve her conscience by confessing.


This ^^^^^

She did not dump him because of her virtue and love and commitment for you.

She had her fun and frivolities with him and realized he was never going to ride off into the sunset with him as he was banging a bunch of other chicks and had no need for her. 

She simply wasn’t getting anywhere with him and their relationship basically had stalled out and moreless dried out. 

Her rationale for telling you was of her own devices for her own agendas. 

She is just trying to keep her gravy train and her comfortable lifestyle. She knows muscle guy will never have her as he can have lots of younger and prettier other women so she is just securing her provisioning from you. 

You are being used and chumped.


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## hamadryad

You probably will never know what or how it ended....There is every possibility he was banging another client of his and she got insanely jealous....Anything is possible, but if you think you are getting the real story, I would be highly suspect....

Oh, I just want to throw this in there, as someone who is a "gym" person and while not a trainer myself, I do help people out and know a lot of personal trainers...I can tell you that probably better than half of the middle aged women that enlist a male personal trainer, wind up sleeping with them...Judging from the stories I have been told, and I have no reason to disbelieve, its like many of the women are just complete laydowns......It's so bad, that one guy I personally know stopped taking on women anymore for the reason that he grew weary of the flirting and propositions....from mostly married middle aged women(he's very happily married)...The world is full of super competent female trainers(many are actually more qualified and more serious than the guys) so why aren't they using them?? Again, that's not to say that that some aren't on the up and up, but again, gotta make you wonder..

Anyway, OP....forget about her poor decisions for a minute....But really...How on Earth will you ever be able to continue this after knowing what you know?? How would you ever feel confident or relaxed? 

BTW, I am not one of those people that believe that reconciliation after infidelity is impossible...It can be in certain circumstances with certain couples, but this one won't ever happen, IMO...I am sorry to say this as I know you are hurting, but even if half of what you said is true there is almost no scenario I can envision that would make it work again...Take care of yourself and move on....02


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## Gabriel

I mean, go to counseling together if you want. That's fine. But this goes way deeper than her affair. 

She doesn't have passion for you, and hasn't for a long time. She lied to you over and over and over and over x 100. 

How can you trust anything she says now? Sure, it may all sound good, and maybe she's feeling guilty and realizes she shouldn't have had the relationship. But what happens in 6 months, or next year, or in 5 years? Once your guard is back down? 

BTW, your besotted feelings are there because you feel the need to claim her back. It's a STRONG feeling - usually accompanied by wild sex, but not always. This feeling will fade as time passes.


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## member2012

I think you should start going to the gym he trains at. If he doesn't recognize you and doesn't know she told you everything, then you should sign up for some training with him. If he does group classes, then sign up for those if the 'one on one' training would make you too uncomfortable. And if he does recognize you and know she told you 'everything' thereby avoiding you, then at the very least go work out in the same gym at the same times he does and take a look at this whole thing from an inside point of view, rather than always being on the outside looking in. Don't tell your wife, just do it. 

Knowing a bit about him might help you get some clarification as to how this whole thing played out. It's not that you don't know that already, it's that you don't understand, completely, what has gone on and what your wife got out of carrying on this affair. And it is this understanding of what she got out of it that will allow you to gain perspective. And it is this new perspective which will carry you to the next place you need to be in all of this so your own behavior around this issue can develop authentically and allow you to not have to fake how you feel to yourself. Then you won't have to ask others what you should do, it will come naturally to you.


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## Mrchiller

Evinrude58 said:


> You are the only person that can determine if you can still have a happy marriage after a total betrayal.
> She dumped him after 2.5yrs. Don’t think that she suddenly was so guilt ridden she stopped. There’s another factor here that you don’t know about. It was going on 2.5 yrs. A conscience doesn’t grow out of thin air after 2.5 yrs. Either she got tired of him or something else is going on.
> We can’t tell you how to get over this. Nobody can. But I think you’re doing some things right.
> Question: what consequences have you given your wife, or shown your wife of her actions? Because if you stay and there’s no consequences, it will happen again most likely.


So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here. 
The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


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## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks f
> 
> No not at all. I’m not justifying what she did or blaming myself. Affairs don’t happen for a reason, there is a trigger and my depressive state was that trigger.


Of course affairs happen for no reason, except for the reason of the one cheating being a liar and having no moral values or integrity.


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## Beach123

The woman you thought she was is gone.
The marriage you thought you had is ruined.

you have no idea who she really is. You can never trust her again.

when times get tough - how will she act at that point? You can’t trust her.

you have nothing that you thought you had.

she ruined your family and your life because she’s selfish and self centered. That’s not good qualities in any spouse/partner.

your wife is seriously broken and needs to focus on fixing what is broken about her. I’d step away for a few years to allow her to see if she can become less self focused/selfish.

personally - I doubt she’s sorry she did it.
I’d dna test your kids. It may not be her first affair.


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## Evinrude58

I had anxiety attacks. Previous to my ex wife’s betrayal, I didn’t know they existed. 
zoloft for a couple of months helped.

My opinion: Your wife says she still has feelings for the OM. I don’t feel it’s typical that a woman is with another man and still has ANY feelings for her husband. I believe once they’re gone, they never return. I could be wrong.
Your wife says she loves you. You believe her actions are genuine.
How about these actions:
Does your wife kiss you with passion? She did the OM.
Does she call you or otherwise seek out your Company? She did the other man.
Does she PLAN things fun with you? She did the OM.
You know how she treated you when you were first dating and probably first married. Does she treat you that way now?

I don’t know all the details. But you’re upset she gives you no affection. She claims she’s not affectionate and you know that’s a lie. Why are you unwilling to turn her loose?
Do you feel you can’t find another person to live? Honestly, I read somewhere, I think here: “it’s easier to give birth than to raise the dead”. I think that’s likely very true. It’s much easier to find a new live than to bring back live that is dead. I wish I could tell you how to do that, because you live your wife and want her to love you. I don’t think you pursuing her will do that. I think you need to head the other direction and if she won’t pursue you, leave her behind.
I’m sorry.


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## Marc878

It’s wise to stay out of marriage counseling upfront. Shes broken not the marriage.

You have less than a 50% chance of getting a decent one. Some cause more damage that help.

This field is full of incompetents from what I’ve seen.


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## Marc878

Evinrude58 said:


> You are the only person that can determine if you can still have a happy marriage after a total betrayal.
> She dumped him after 2.5yrs. Don’t think that she suddenly was so guilt ridden she stopped. There’s another factor here that you don’t know about. It was going on 2.5 yrs. A conscience doesn’t grow out of thin air after 2.5 yrs. Either she got tired of him or something else is going on.
> We can’t tell you how to get over this. Nobody can. But I think you’re doing some things right.
> Question: what consequences have you given your wife, or shown your wife of her actions? Because if you stay and there’s no consequences, it will happen again most likely.


He probably dumped her or she thought she was about to be outed.

All cheaters lie a lot. I’d bet you know only the tip of this iceberg.

I doubt you’ll listen but right now you’re panicked and in the “I must do everything possible to save this”. Doing that you will get walked on more than you already have. She’s the one who should be bending over backwards not you.

ill say again all cheaters lie a lot. Time brings clarity if you’ll let it. Don’t let your heart override your brain.


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## Marc878

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


But she kept going back didn’t she?

Upfront they all do the sorry but her actions will tell you what you need to know long term.


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## syhoybenden

Mrchiller said:


> Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun.



With friends like these who needs enemies??

They have to go. And, their husbands should be told why.


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## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


Sorry I dont buy this, she wasnt married to him or living with him, all she had to do was to text him and stop having personal training with him and find another trainer, preferably a woman. Cheaters lie, she lied for 2 1/2 years, its what they do. I am glad that her family were firm with her, not many families will do the right thing in that way. You were also right to make her have an STI test and that isnt 'treating her like dirt', its sensible advise for any cheater to do that and its just more consequences of an affair. 
I am betting that he would give a complete other version of events but you will believe what you wish to believe in the end.


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## Tasorundo

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


How much effort did she put into fixing things with her lover vs fixing things with you?


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## jsmart

You don’t get over all the feelings involved in a 2.5 year relationship in just a few months. Her body is still going through withdrawal from all the dopamine hits she would get from sneaking around being a bad girl. 

I can only imagine how wanton she became to keep the excitement going for a younger buff guy for 2.5 years. If he was controlling, then it wouldn’t surprise me if he made her do extreme sexual acts and maybe even do humiliating acts in order to get her to prove her love to him. Think about that as you contemplate R.

you have to measure her love by her actions not her words. Her telling you she is not affectionate is a cover. Having sex, especially passionately kissing you is probably very revolting to her. You have to ask yourself is going through the humiliation of having to win back the love of your adulterous wife is worth it.

she is probably still pumped up with the false confidence that comes from an affair and thinks she is to good for you. She won’t say it but her actions are. Right now she thinks that by staying with you she’s sacrificing enough and wants you to just shut up and rug sweep her affair. 

The best thing for you to do is file for D , expose her affair to Everyone all without warning. Get your financial ducks in a row. Start emotionally preparing to be on your own. When she sees that her llife and social status as a divorcee with 3 older kids is going to be much lower than a married mother it may wake her up to truly fight for you but don’t count on it. Like another poster said, the pregnancy of new love is easier than raising the corpse that is your wife’s “love” for you.


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## oldtruck

The OP wants to recover.
His WW is doing a lot of things to recover.

The million dollar question: why no advice to help him and 
his WW do everything that is needed to recover?


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## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out.


Let's say she's telling the truth and not just claiming her affair was sooo horrible. What is her story for why she couldn't get out? If he was so horrible and she couldn't get out of it, why was she suddenly able to when you were about to catch her? 

Do you really think the only reason she confessed was because she felt guilty? Or do you now see that she knew you were onto her, came up with her story, and then confessed? Do you really think a guy like this never threatened to expose her? 



> She went for counselling on her own.


Has that been verified, or are you going based on her word? 



> Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun.


Those "friends" need to go, all of them. If she won't completely cut them out of her life then reconciliation shouldn't even be an option.


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## jsmart

In order to try to R, there have to be 2 people that are both totally in. Right now, it is OP that is having to eat the crap sandwich while his WW gives token gestures at best to show that she’s truly remorseful and want to win her husband’s trust. 

Everyone here knows there is way more to this 2.5 year affair than she has confessed. Are we supposed to convince him to continue to nice his unemotionally present wife? He doesn’t even know fully what he is forgiving. Which probably another emotional roadblock for his WW. 

Deep down she understands that if he knew how deeply she betrayed him, he would bail. So she hold back emotionally. It takes a lot to fake love and affection. She doesn’t think she will get the feelings back so she doesn’t even try. Right now she is just white knuckling it but how long can that last?

the best course of action is to pursue D and really mean it. He has to be willing to lose the marriage if he is ever going to be able to create a new meaningful one. It may be possible but not with the current strategy. Women can’t love a man she doesn’t respect.


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## TJW

oldtruck said:


> The million dollar question: why no advice to help him and
> his WW do everything that is needed to recover?


The 25-cent answer:

The advice we are giving IS to help him. We are not talking to the WW, but if we were, we would be giving advice to her aimed at recovery.

We give this advice because we know that in the majority of cases, there are very, very, very damn few who actually "recover". Some stay together for the kids, some stay together for the finances, for the extended family, etc. but the marriage is DEAD.

I think @jsmart said it best:



jsmart said:


> it is OP that is having to eat the crap sandwich while his WW gives token gestures
> 
> Women can’t love a man she doesn’t respect.


And, a man can't love a woman who doesn't respect him, and to whom he is "plan B". The "plan B" statement is unequivocal, and one which cannot be "walked back" - the crap sandwich will be the nourriture du jour as long as the faux marriage lasts.


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## sokillme

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


It's very unwise for you to infinitize your wife and believe her excuses she had no control over what she was doing. She is an adult grown women who did an evil thing knowingly by choice. Ever think maybe you were depressed before she did this because you were married to a abusive asshole and instead of accepting that you infintized her and took the blame? You are probably doing the same thing now. I suspect the problems in the marriage before were because you were married to person silly enough to have and tawdry affair with her personal trainer. Because she "had no control" boo-hoo. Open your eyes and see it is who you are wasting your future on. She sound more then toxic.

Having read this story over and over I think the healthiest choice where you heal the fastest is to quickly divorce and move one like the cheating spouse never existed beside dealing with your kids. Like she was a mistake you learned from. It will be horribly painful in the beginning but like a cancer treatment you cut out the cancer and then your body heals, so it is with your emotions, you will be stronger and better in a few years, but if you don't' cut out the cancer the pain persists for years often decades and very often you still break up years down the line.

Your wife is not marriage material, if you stay with her you will have a diminished life most likely.

There is no love without loyalty. There is a hell of a lot of selfish abuse that is presented as love though. You have the latter.


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## sokillme

The people who did the best are always the ones who leave.



oldtruck said:


> The OP wants to recover.
> His WW is doing a lot of things to recover.
> 
> The million dollar question: why no advice to help him and
> his WW do everything that is needed to recover?


Because most of us believe recovering is like a unicorn. The supposedly "recovered" people sound and are miserable. There whole lives are about recovering, not living productive happy emotionally healthy lives. I mean I could write, OK OP go to counseling, and then prepare for this to dominate your primary relationship for the rest of your life. I feel it's much more moral to tell the guy what he is up against and empower him to move on.

I wouldn't advice a women to return to her abusive husband either, even if she desperately wanted to.

He can still have a great life, but it's most likely not with this selfish dangerous women.

An additional example if you don't believe me.


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## TJW

sokillme said:


> I feel it's much more moral to tell the guy what he is up against and empower him to move on.


Amen.



sokillme said:


> He can still have a great life, but it's most likely not with this selfish dangerous women.


I think the odds are quite against him having a great life if he stays there. BTDT.


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## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


You are going through a variety of mental gymnastic here to try to convince yourself that she was out of her mind and was being duped by some guy that was in love with her but that she was trying to get away to be with you. 

But what you say above tells us the opposite. This was a passionate affair for which she was fully engaged and invested.

Listen, all of guys here have been dumped at some point by a woman we wanted to be with but who did not want to be with us..... those relationships ended in a day. When a woman is done, she is done and when she drops the ax, it is over.

The fact this went on for 2.5 years shows *SHE *was fully invested.

She may have tried using threats of leaving and manipulation to try to get him to be with her and not be banging the dozen other women he was hooking up with, but make no mistake - she was emotionally and sexually invested in him... otherwise she would have simply walked away and stopped having any contact with him. 

This is all proof of her depth of involvement, NOT evidence of her wanting to get away.


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## sokillme

I don’t understand what was real the last 2.5 years. We used to go out and have fun, was that fake? I told her I loved her so many times and she said the same back. Was that staged?
Here is what you grow to understand with your wife. Nothing is real at all. She probably doesn't even know herself. She is a broken person.​

our marriage lacked passion when I got depressed. I’ve lost my confidence (her AP was a heavy muscled 6ft guy 9 years younger than me. I’m 11 years older than my wife who is 36. Help here.
Probably because of who you are married to. You should see if you have a better dynamic with someone else.​​Your worth has nothing do with your appearance and your marriage shouldn't have either. Since it seems it did you are better off without it. The help is for you to marry a better person, then you don't have to worry because you know things like loyalty mean more then, height, age or muscles. I mean if you would met someone in better shape and younger then your wife would you have slept with her? So why are you carrying on like your wife's affair was a failure in your appearance. It was a failure of her character, that's it. Go lift weights if you want. Besides that you wife should take no pride in the fact that she attracted this guy, to guys like this guy your wife is nothing more then an orifice, (that is harsh but that is harshness of the reality of the truth).​

I’ve been getting nightmares about her having another affair or not being able to speak. They are so real and scary
Living with toxic people in toxic situations will do this to you. People act like this is just a part of recover but I think it is a part of a terrible unhealthy dynamic of trying to stay in an abusive situation. I suspect the person whose spouse beat them into a coma has the same experience when they try to go back to live with them again. That's because your subconscious knows it's not healthy and dangerous. Don't discount this is God or the universe warning you that she will do it again. Time is finite, you only get one shot in life.​

she said she’s not an affectionate person so doesn’t like to give kisses or hugs but I know when she was in love with me, she couldn’t stop
Your wife is a liar stop lying to yourself and accept that. You can do better, hell being alone is better.​

my head is filled with clutter. My self esteem is so low but I wake up everyday positive. I know she’s having a hard time as well and she also said she doesn’t know what was real.
Like I said. Anyone's self esteem would be, particularly when you try to stay with someone who abused you. She deserves to have a hard time. Go start to get in shape and lift weights it will help. But the best way to fix this is to get her toxic presence out of your life as much as possible. Like I said she is not real, she even knows it, she is a dangerous person to be emotionally attached to.​

any books,talks that can help
Look up books about female narcissists. Also she should not be associating with her toxic enabling friends.​

I get anxiety attacks. Is that normal?
Yes but it's going to be worse if you stay. You are trying to do something that is emotionally unhealthy. Your posts show that even before this you were not thinking correctly and logically.​

I feel she’s compromised and staying with me. Every time I confront her on this she says she wants to be with me. How do I really know? She betrayed me and lied to me for 2.5 years. I had no clue
she’s on her phone so so much. Was on her phone so much the last 3 years. I know the passcode - she gave it to me but I’ve never gone into her phone and check. That’s not me. I don’t want to be a paranoid person.

This is and always have been your problem, you own self worth. Dude if she was forced to wear a sign that showed what she did to her husband no one would marry her, they would only use her for sex like this personal trainer. (Who I hope you tried to have fired). No one would want to be with her. You are doing her a favor. You are the prize she is not. Look how everyone on here has reacted. Why do you value yourself so little? Once you divorce her (and for your sake I hope you do) she will have a much harder time. Either she lies to the next guy, or she tells the truth and the prospects will be a lot smaller. You are a good faithful husband who even after being horribly abused by your partner still struggles to stop fulfilling your vows. You are the best friend she will ever have. And you think she is compromising? You are her lifeline. But you are also making a mistake by being so.​​If you are going to stay with her you would be foolish to believe a word she says ever again. Checking her phone would be the just the beginning if it were me.​​Honestly dude you are having such a hard time because you are trying to do something that is against human nature. Like slowly poising yourself. I suspect if you were doing that you would have the exact kinds of symptoms daily.​


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## sokillme

bobert said:


> First off, stop blaming yourself for her actions. Who told you that you triggered her affair? The therapist? Your wife?
> 
> Stop blaming yourself. Your wife chose to do this. I know it's easier to blame yourself so you can feel like you have some control in the situation, but you don't. You could have been the best husband in the world and she still could have cheated. You could have been the worst husband in the world and she could have been faithful, or you know... could have divorced.
> 
> Maybe her AP did play her, and your wife might not have known what he was doing to manipulate her, but she sure knew what she was doing. Heck, she even told you she wanted to start sleeping with other men, then followed through with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Nope, she didn't confess because she was guilty and couldn't live with her double life. She confessed because she was scared that you were going to catch her. You said in another post "I even confronted her after posting here in summer when literally everyone said she was, and she denied it with such conviction". So she lied about it, then got freaked out and confessed.
> 
> You also say that she told you every detail. Again, I have my doubts and I still think your wife was cheating A LOT longer than she claims (based on what you said in the first thread). As far as I know, my wife has told me everything but the first time she "confessed" she said she slept with one guy something like 7 times... Sure, maybe that _week_. Cheaters lie, all of them. Even if they later come out with the truth. The chance of reconciling is higher than 0.0001%, but the chance of her coming out and telling you the whole truth like that is about 0.0001%.
> 
> 
> 
> And that IS good. It is. Early on, there were times that I only stayed because my wife was doing everything right. The thing is, you don't know if she's doing that because she genuinely wants to be with you or because she doesn't want everything that comes with divorce. Your wife told you she was only staying because of the kids. She told you she wasn't attracted to you. She told you she thought of you as a brother. Yes, those things can change and feelings can come back, but she could also be scared of losing her SAHM lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, burying your head in the sand won't help at all. You are scared of what you will find but do you really want to keep living a lie? In your other post you said you trusted her and didn't need to look at her phone... now you've found a new excuse to use.
> 
> Secondly, your wife needs to knock that off. You say she is doing "everything right" well, there is something she isn't doing right. You need to tell her how it makes you feel when she's on her phone all the time and watch her reaction. Does she say you are overreacting, if so, red flag. Or does she put down the phone and knock it off, permanently.
> 
> What else is she doing wrong? You have to initiate the affection, there is no passion, and she is claiming she's just not an affectionate person anymore. You may not like the answer, but she needs to give it to you. I have a feeling the answer is similar to her "I'm not attracted to you, I see you as a brother, I'm only with you for the kids/status" confession.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I've asked my wife that at times. Her answer was that some of it was fake, some of it was real, and some of it she wanted it to be real. Not the best answer, but an honest one. I can guarantee you the "I love you too's" were often fake. The fun times, laughing, etc. are more likely to be real (in the moment).
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're correct about all of this. This is something your wife should be dealing with in IC. She needs to understand who he really is, which can help with losing those feelings, and she needs to understand how to handle it when the feelings pop back up. One of my wife's APs, she lost the feelings for him pretty quickly once he was out of her life. The other one took longer and even though their affair ended 10.5 years ago she still has feelings pop up sometimes. Your wife NEEDS to learn when to expect that and how to handle it. She cannot just say whoops and that she won't do it again.
> 
> As for the nightmares, anxiety, self-esteem issues, comparing yourself to the AP, etc. It's all normal, unfortunately, and it's not going away anytime soon. You would probably expect that if you had any other sort of trauma (car accident, etc.), right? This is trauma as well. You need to work with an IC to work through it. You may also benefit from going on an anti-depressant (or a different/additional one) that works for anxiety as well. I used them for a little under two years until I was ready to stop taking them. Talk to your doctor about that. On that note, you need to be tested for STD's if you haven't already. You should be pissed that she was risking your health like that. You also said she didn't like being on the pill, so she took the added risk of him knocking her up.
> 
> Everyone here told me to divorce. I didn't, I'm happy with that decision, and so far it has worked out for me (but remember, everyone's situation is different). So you do you, but you need to open your eyes, slow down, and be cautious. You're not in as good of a spot as you seem to think you are.



Happy doesn't always mean healthy.


----------



## TJW

sokillme said:


> Once you divorce her (and for your sake I hope you do) she will have a much harder time.


*Proverbs 13:15 (KJV)*
_Good understanding giveth favour: but *the* *way* *of* *transgressors* is *hard*._



sokillme said:


> You are a good faithful husband who even after being horribly abused by your partner still struggles to stop fulfilling your vows.


Amen. Build on that. The "favour" of your "good understanding" will follow. BTDT, too.


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## Diana7

It will never work while she and the OP are both blaming the OM and the OP is blaming himself for any part of this. She hasnt yet taken full and complete responsibility claiming that she tried to leave, I mean that is just pathetic. They are trying to reconcile based on the lies they are telling themsleves and each other.


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## michzz

If she had said that she had a hangnail and needed to screw someone to get over it would make as much sense as what you've been told.

A woman willing to go bang someone for years is too hostile to remain married to her.

I know this FIRSTHAND. My ex-wife did this to me. The gyrations I went through for years to repair the rift were humiliating and unsuccessful.

Such a waste of time.

better to leave, restore your dignity, and get a new life without the festering wound.


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## jparistotle

a 2.5 Year affair is a long affair to have and hide. Other than you who knows about the affair and how did they find out? Have you confronted those that knew and what about her affair partner? You need to deal with the enablers and blow up their worlds. Make it clear that their involvement in this situation has consequences. Get them out of your lives and make sure they know why in a very public way if you can. Ask yourself and be honest, outside of the kids, why would you stay. Not a rash self introspective, but a really though out couple of days or months review. She had 2.5 years to reflect, tell her you will need a couple of months to do some soul searching. It is only fair. Let her know what you are doing has nothing to with her but more about her actions and her lack of respect for you and the family for 2.5 years.


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## Mrchiller

syhoybenden said:


> With friends like these who needs enemies??
> 
> They have to go. And, their husbands should be told why.


She’s broken ties with them. One of the friends is divorced and was flirting with me last year. I couldn’t understand why, but it appears she wanted to get me divorced and then provide a shoulder to cry on.


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## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> no one would marry her, they would only use her for sex like this personal trainer. (Who I hope you tried to have fired).


I agree with the whole of your post.

I even understand the sentiment behind the statement above, but do not believe it is realistic. 

Most gym owners at the most turn a blind eye to and many probably like it and consider it good for business and will work around it even if the corporate office has a policy against it (which I doubt many do)

These bored and frustrated middle age housewives pay rediculous money for personal training and they are more apt to shell out that kind of dough if they are getting some side benefits to the deal. 

If word gets out that some angry husband is complaining that the hot, hunky trainer is banging his wife, several more desperate housewives will sign up. 

This is part of the personal training culture and likely a significant part of why these chicks sign up for it in the first place. 

She likely went into this with the intent of rubbing up against some hunk from the beginning.


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## Mrchiller

jparistotle said:


> a 2.5 Year affair is a long affair to have and hide. Other than you who knows about the affair and how did they find out? Have you confronted those that knew and what about her affair partner? You need to deal with the enablers and blow up their worlds. Make it clear that their involvement in this situation has consequences. Get them out of your lives and make sure they know why in a very public way if you can. Ask yourself and be honest, outside of the kids, why would you stay. Not a rash self introspective, but a really though out couple of days or months review. She had 2.5 years to reflect, tell her you will need a couple of months to do some soul searching. It is only fair. Let her know what you are doing has nothing to with her but more about her actions and her lack of respect for you and the family for 2.5 years.


Her parents know. Her 2 sisters. A few friends that she is starting to distance and some gym friends who is distancing from. I just don’t understand how I didn’t see it for 2.5 years and from all the comments here, I feel like I have goggles on and can’t see reality. What’s hard is we are in lockdown in the UK, at home with 3 very challenging boys, home schooling and me working AND trying to repair a marriage. Everything is against us. The easy thing for me to do is wave the white flag and file for divorce but I genuinely feel there is hope, albeit one hell of a tough time. It’s my birthday tomorrow, so I’ll see how much effort she has made.


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## oldshirt

oldtruck said:


> The OP wants to recover.
> His WW is doing a lot of things to recover.
> 
> The million dollar question: why no advice to help him and
> his WW do everything that is needed to recover?


Because it is smoke and mirrors and not for real.

The OP is wanting to keep the illusion of the relationship he thought he had before this was brought to his attention.

And the WW is simply trying to maintain her provisioning and roof over her head.

She is using and manipulating the OP to let her live in the house and pay bills and maintain her current standard of living. 

It has nothing to do with love or desire for him.

He is the fall-back guy and back up plan since the OM wouldn’t have her full time or stop banging all his other chicks.

The better question is why _should _anyone support this arrangement???


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## member2012

Mrchiller said:


> Her parents know. Her 2 sisters. A few friends that she is starting to distance and some gym friends who is distancing from. I just don’t understand how I didn’t see it for 2.5 years and from all the comments here, I feel like I have goggles on and can’t see reality. What’s hard is we are in lockdown in the UK, at home with 3 very challenging boys, home schooling and me working AND trying to repair a marriage. Everything is against us. The easy thing for me to do is wave the white flag and file for divorce but I genuinely feel there is hope, albeit one hell of a tough time. It’s my birthday tomorrow, so I’ll see how much effort she has made.


The lockdown is in your favor, it made it harder for her to continue an in person relationship with her AP. It most likely contributed to their breakup as the gym's were closed and it probably has caused complete havoc on the AP's life as he must be having a hard time making a living now.


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## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> Her parents know. Her 2 sisters. A few friends that she is starting to distance and some gym friends who is distancing from. I just don’t understand how I didn’t see it for 2.5 years and from all the comments here, I feel like I have goggles on and can’t see reality.


This is an important step to make. You have been asleep at the wheel. You haven’t been in the now.

She was basically living a double life and maintaining a whole other relationship for years. 

Everyone else knew about it and many were encouraging it. 

If this guy would have decided to have her full time during the last few years, you would have came home to an empty house one day and wondered where everyone was. 

You need to come back down to earth and get your head in the game and determine what is real before you do anything whether you decide to divorce or reconcile.


----------



## sokillme

Mrchiller said:


> Her parents know. Her 2 sisters. A few friends that she is starting to distance and some gym friends who is distancing from. I just don’t understand how I didn’t see it for 2.5 years and from all the comments here, I feel like I have goggles on and can’t see reality. What’s hard is we are in lockdown in the UK, at home with 3 very challenging boys, home schooling and me working AND trying to repair a marriage. Everything is against us. The easy thing for me to do is wave the white flag and file for divorce but I genuinely feel there is hope, albeit one hell of a tough time. It’s my birthday tomorrow, so I’ll see how much effort she has made.


Dude cut this out. You loved your wife and expected her to protect you and be loyal to you. You did nothing but what every good and decent spouse does. Stop being down on yourself for that. Look, everyone who has belief in someone they love is vulnerable to this EVERYONE! Love is about courage and faith, that is what makes it a miracle and one of the reasons people sing songs about. You should look at this as your honor not that you were gullible. You had no concept that she could do that to you because she was your world and you adored her. Seriously **** this person and everyone like her.

But the next lesson is to stop thinking of her like that and now see her and what your marriage is. This is a women who carried on a 2 year affair and destroyed her whole family and her reputation in the process. She is a fraud and a used car salesman, she sold you a bill of goods. Don't compound the problem by wasting your life with someone who could lie and cheat on you for 2 years with a personal trainer. It isn't even someone she worked with every day, but a personal trainer. Women who have affairs with personal trainers are like men who frequent prostitutes. It's about that "deep" and profound a relationship, meaning it's the bottom of the barrel. Just plain low class and gross. This is why all the decent people in her life distanced themselves, her actions were the lowest of class and tawdry, and I am sure most honorable people saw it that way. What an embarrassment. You need to stop thinking about this women as some prize.

Besides that no one on her side of the family loved you enough to tell you. Nice family to be a part of.

Proceed at your own risk man, but sooner or later it will hit you like a load of bricks and you are going to rule the day you decided to waste your time. You are getting the rawest of deals.


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## sokillme

member2012 said:


> The lockdown is in your favor, it made it harder for her to continue an in person relationship with her AP. It most likely contributed to their breakup as the gym's were closed and it probably has caused complete havoc on the AP's life as he must be having a hard time making a living now.


At the very least I would post a review on yelp.


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## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> It’s my birthday tomorrow, so I’ll see how much effort she has made.


It's too damn easy to make "birthday" effort. Look instead at the everyday grind effort. For at least 2-1/2 years. This will tell the REAL story you are seeking.
You should tell her "....it took you 2-1/2 years to destroy our marriage....not only your marriage, but OUR marriage, and OUR family....".... it will now take you at least TWICE that long to "restore" your marriage, that is, if you really want the MARRIAGE restored, and not just a sugar daddy...."



sokillme said:


> Love is about courage and faith, that is what makes it a miracle and one of the reasons people sing songs about. You should look at this as your honor not that you were gullible.
> 
> She is a fraud and a used car salesman, she sold you a bill of goods.


Amen. In all of your dealings with your wife, through your depression, through whatever, you were faithful and sacrificial. You deserve to wear this as a badge of honor.
Through your depression, your times of need, your wife was unfaithful and selfish. She deserves to wear this as a badge of shame.


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## sokillme

TJW said:


> Amen. In all of your dealings with your wife, through your depression, through whatever, you were faithful and sacrificial. You deserve to wear this as a badge of honor.
> Through your depression, your times of need, your wife was unfaithful and selfish. She deserves to wear this as a badge of shame.


I suspect you were depressed because you were married to someone who wasn't in it the way you were and your subconscious knew what your waking mind tried to avoid. Even now your mind is trying to get you to avoid what your heart knows. That is enough disconnect to make anyone depressed.


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## jsmart

sokillme said:


> I suspect you were depressed because you were married to someone who wasn't in it the way you were and your subconscious knew what your waking mind tried to avoid. Even now your mind is trying to get you to avoid what your heart knows. That is enough disconnect to make anyone depressed.


I totally agree. OP’s gut was telling him something was very wrong with his marriage, causing him to tailspin into a depression. After being married for so many years, you know when something is off. Instead of digging deep into the distance he was feeling from his WW, he went into a deep depression because it was to painful to face the truth.


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## jsmart

member2012 said:


> The lockdown is in your favor, it made it harder for her to continue an in person relationship with her AP. It most likely contributed to their breakup as the gym's were closed and it probably has caused complete havoc on the AP's life as he must be having a hard time making a living now.


That makes a lot of sense. A lot of OM’s status was tied to the teacher/student position he had with OP’s WW. Him encouraging and instructing her, put her in a submissive position. The quarantine changed that dynamic, which would explain why OM started to get possessive and needy. But even with OM being diminished, this WW still struggled with who she wanted to be with? 

Deep down, OP’s WW understood that this guy was never going to take her on as a wife or even live in girlfriend.
That has to kill the OP inside to know that despite the family they built together and all the history and memories they built, she was having a hard time choosing between her husband and continuing to be OM’s free prostitute.


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## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP. Tough with 3 kids, keep your chin up pal.



Mrchiller said:


> She tried many times to get out.


That struck me as very strange. She tried many times not to **** her personal trainer, and love only her husband? This seems like a bizarre thing to tell us. Maybe a poor choice of words in your post?


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## Wolfman1968

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


Look my friend, remember one thing. Many, if not most, of the people posting on your thread have been through it before. Read some of their threads. They are speaking from experience. 

Your posts just keep making excuses for her and trying to justify your urges to stay in the marriage. You're not really looking at it objectively and trying to weigh pros and cons, and likelihood of a good outcome. Instead, you seem to be determined to beat down every naysayer. When you see a post that might open the door to reconciliation by a tiny crack, are you countering those arguments in the same manner you counter the "divorce her" posts? No, you do not. You're not weighing the two approaches critically. You use these posts the way a drunk uses a lamppost--for support, not for enlightenment. 

Even if you reconcile, you are extremely unlikely to regain her passion towards you. You will be consigned to a type of _modus vivendi _living as friends, trying to stay together out of a sense of obligation or for the children, maybe even caring for each other like brother and sister, but her old passion towards you will never be recovered. It has been directed to the Affair Partner, and it stays there, which is which she still has feelings toward him despite the fact that he, as you suggest, acted poorly toward her in a narcissistic way.

Dude, you mentioned that you were "besotted" with her, but SHE is no longer "besotted' with you. And she can't create those feelings to occur by force of will alone. You justify her feelings toward the AP by saying "you just can't turn it on and off", but ignore that such a sentiment would apply to YOU as well. She just can't turn it on for you. In fact, despite her supposed dedication toward you, he is STILL the focus of her loyalty and emotion. If you were number one, then she would be able, with horror, to realize what a sleaze that the AP is, and what a threat she is to her marriage--if she truly valued you and her marriage. If you were the object of her desire, she would spit on her AP, and want to destroy him for the harm she did to the man she loves---the fact that she doesn't feel that way is very telling.

Without realizing it she is telling you that you are number two. You ARE her plan B. You are not the focus of her love, passion and desire. There's a lot of reasons why a woman will stay with Plan B--- she may know there is no future with the AP (because he's a narcissist, even though he's the bad boy that gets her heart racing), she may not want to be ostracized by her family or community, she may feel moral or religious obligations, she may think it's best for the kids, she may not want to give up a comfortable life....whatever. But the reasons DON'T include one thing a wife should feel towards her husband---that he is the best man she could ever hope for, and the one what she dreams about and desires. You don't have that. That's why you're Plan B.

And that's why I would never stay married if I were in your situation.


----------



## colingrant

Mrchiller said:


> Yes there has been full disclosure. Every detail. She’s not “giving me” sex, *i want to emotionally connect and the physical side will follow. I know it’s easy to throw rockets* at her but she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.
> We were and are so compatible. *Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus?* It’s only been 4 months since she told me. Key phrase, she told me. Not me finding it. The double life was killing her.


*1) *Not going to throw rockets. Just being real. It's incumbent upon her to reconnect with you, not vice versa. It's a foundational must, not option for reconciliation. If reconciling and you're leading it'll be a flawed/fake reconciliation. With respect to your 6 month depression, it's irrelevant within the context of her 2.5 year affair. She receives no points for supporting you during this period. She did what she's supposed to do as a wife. Sickness and rough times are par for the course in marriages. You'll have them and she'll have them. 

*2)* I definitely don't think reconciliation should be the primary focus. The primary focus should be your recovery and her self recognition of withdrawing, forgoing and choosing a lover over her husband and family. Let's step back a minute and think about this. 2.5 years. Couple of Christmases, anniversaries, birthdays, she held another man's heart next to hers in her heart. 

Until she truly comes to grip with understanding the totality of damage caused, it'll be a reconciliation with hopium as the foundation.. The real foundation starts with complete remorse, which isn't quite there as you're not even getting sex yet. A remorseful wife would jump heels over head from receiving the gift of reconciliation and then actually acting like it. 

*3) *If true and she informed you there's a chance you two can make it. I'd press her to explain what she means or felt by the "guilt". Example. There's a difference between feeling guilty cheating on my wife because it's wrong and me WANTING TO BE WITH MY WIFE, hence will not cheat. 

So with me it's not guilt so much as it is I'm risking my wife not being my wife by being with someone else. I don't want someone else. I want my wife and no one else. I'm not sure I did a good job at distinguishing the two, but my attempt was to do so.


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## QuietRiot

This is probably the most depressing thread I’ve seen in my short time here. What is it about this that makes me so sad? I can’t put my finger on it. It’s like... fanatical desperation.


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## Gabriel

.


----------



## Gabriel

"We argued a lot and he was controlling" - feel sorry for me
"I tried to get out so many times" - feel sorry for me
"My friends threw me under a bus" - feel sorry for me
"I joined Facebook groups for help" - I was trapped, feel sorry for me
"My family cut me off for a WHOLE MONTH" (of a 30 month affair) - feel sorry for me
"I'm so sad you won't let me touch you without a sti test" = feel sorry for me

She's got you convinced she's the victim here. Next thing you know, you'll be the one consoling HER

I've heard countless stories like this. And my wife was a personal trainer for a few years. I know the drill there too.

Trainers bang their clients pretty regularly. My wife saw it all the time at the gym - almost exclusively male trainers with female clients. Here's what happened. Your wife was attracted to her trainer, who was more buff and younger than her older husband at home. He picked up on this, and as he's probably done before and will probably do again, he decided a no-strings f*** buddy would be fun. So they had sex from time to time. And it went on and on like that for the better part of two years. A very long time - hey, the sex must have been good, and your wife started to "catch feelings", as women often do with their sexual partners.

After awhile, the trainer likely began realizing his f*** buddy was getting in too deep, and he didn't like that. Maybe he had some feelings too that he wasn't counting on feeling. Arguments ensued, as their relationship wasn't exactly a fairy tale. But he didn't want it to end, either. So it got messy. Your wife didn't know if she should leave you for this trainer, or try to remove herself from the relationship somehow and thus she was really conflicted. At some point, whether it was something he said, or something her parents said, or her sisters, or maybe it just became clear in some other way....she realized she had to end it - there was no future here. 

So she gathered her courage and confessed to you. Her conscience couldn't take it any more and it wasn't going to work out with her boyfriend.

But this changes nothing...she is clearly not into you. She is clearly settling. It's only a matter of time before the next "upgrade" presents itself. And what happens then? It's not sustainable for a woman to be in a marriage where she doesn't respect or want to have sex with her husband. 

And is that a "prize" you want? You deserve to have someone who WANTS you. Not someone who is settling for you. You should demand more for yourself. You are worth more than this.


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## Diana7

OP do you honestly trust her? She lied and deceived you and cheated for all that time, how can you trust that what she is telling you is the truth anyway. She may be lying about the OM and how and why it ended. Thats the problem here, she isnt to be trusted so how can you ever know if she is telling the truth again. I think for me that is why I could never stay, once the trust has gone what else is there?


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## hamadryad

Gabriel said:


> "We argued a lot and he was controlling" - feel sorry for me
> "I tried to get out so many times" - feel sorry for me
> "My friends threw me under a bus" - feel sorry for me
> "I joined Facebook groups for help" - I was trapped, feel sorry for me
> "My family cut me off for a WHOLE MONTH" (of a 30 month affair) - feel sorry for me
> "I'm so sad you won't let me touch you without a sti test" = feel sorry for me


Unfortunately, and for whatever reason I don't know, when women have affairs, it's often blamed on the guy..."he was emotionally unavailable" .."he spent too much time working and ignored my needs" etc...

When guys step out, they are "selfish and narcissistic sexual predators that abandoned their families for a piece of ass..."

Perhaps this is the game going on here as well? I dunno....Just that it does seem like that has been the case in my experiences...


----------



## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


So, they had a high drama relationship of which the "cries for help" were a part. Trust me, that kind of high drama is addictive and makes the affair sex soooo much hotter.

The whole "I tried to get away, but couldn't" is absolute stinky piles of ********. Is she or is she not a grown woman with agency? She wasn't married to this man and stuck with him because they had kids and he paid all the bills. She had options. She could easily have ended it. Cancel training and membership with the gym manager, block him on all platforms including her cell phone, and move to a new gym with a female personal trainer. That simple. She could have ended it in less than a few hours, total. She chose not to because she was heavily invested and getting off on the drama of it all the same way people get off on other risky behaviors.

She got cut off by her family for a whole month!?!?! Oh, the horror! Poor muffin!

Dude, seriously, saying this as a former WS, this is nowhere near consequences and her "being killed by it" is just another example of her love for high drama. She gets to have some drama and she gets to make you feel sorry for her. Win-win.



Mrchiller said:


> She’s broken ties with them. One of the friends is divorced and was flirting with me last year. I couldn’t understand why, but it appears she wanted to get me divorced and then provide a shoulder to cry on.


So, birds of a feather really do flock together, huh?



Mrchiller said:


> Her parents know. Her 2 sisters. A few friends that she is starting to distance and some gym friends who is distancing from. I just don’t understand how I didn’t see it for 2.5 years and from all the comments here, I feel like I have goggles on and can’t see reality. What’s hard is we are in lockdown in the UK, at home with 3 very challenging boys, home schooling and me working AND trying to repair a marriage. Everything is against us. The easy thing for me to do is wave the white flag and file for divorce but I genuinely feel there is hope, albeit one hell of a tough time. It’s my birthday tomorrow, so I’ll see how much effort she has made.


You do have goggles on. Your wife is not the person you thought she was and your marriage is not the marriage you thought it was. By your statement here I have to wonder if you are just trying to mental gymnastic/reationalization hamster yourself into staying married because A) the kids and B) you have this idiotic idea in your head that walking away is "giving up".

From another point of view, staying for the kids isn't good for them in the end and failing to respect yourself enough to walk away from someone who betrayed you because it would be hard is the height of weakness.

By all means, reconcile if you must. But understand what you're reconciling with. There is a difference between regret and remorse, yet they often look alike. Until she accepts 100% of the fault for the affair, stops blaming you, and stops pretending she was somehow manipulated into a 2.5 YEAR relationship she could have left at any time you *don't* have a chance in Hell of true reconciliation and you *do* have a fairly decent chance of her doing it again the next time she meets a man who makes her vagina tingle.


----------



## Mrchiller

oldtruck said:


> The OP wants to recover.
> His WW is doing a lot of things to recover.
> 
> The million dollar question: why no advice to help him and
> his WW do everything that is needed to recover?


Thank you. This is what I am looking for. I appreciate everyone’s comments but I need help to recover from this position.


bobert said:


> Let's say she's telling the truth and not just claiming her affair was sooo horrible. What is her story for why she couldn't get out? If he was so horrible and she couldn't get out of it, why was she suddenly able to when you were about to catch her?
> 
> Do you really think the only reason she confessed was because she felt guilty? Or do you now see that she knew you were onto her, came up with her story, and then confessed? Do you really think a guy like this never threatened to expose her?
> 
> 
> Has that been verified, or are you going based on her word?
> 
> 
> Those "friends" need to go, all of them. If she won't completely cut them out of her life then reconciliation shouldn't even be an option.


the first lockdown made us spend 24/7 together and she couldn’t cope with a double life and she cracked and confessed. 
I see the credit card statements for the counsellor so I know it’s true.


----------



## Mrchiller

member2012 said:


> The lockdown is in your favor, it made it harder for her to continue an in person relationship with her AP. It most likely contributed to their breakup as the gym's were closed and it probably has caused complete havoc on the AP's life as he must be having a hard time making a living now.


Yes spot on but she trained with him in the park every day when allowed (restrictions lifted)


----------



## Mrchiller

sokillme said:


> At the very least I would post a review on yelp.


He lost his job in the gym last summer after the gym found out he had a fake certificate of qualification. That says it all in terms of what a con artist piece of scum he is.


----------



## hamadryad

Mrchiller said:


> \
> I see the credit card statements for the counsellor so I know it’s true.


While I have no way to know, someone who was that invested likely sought out counsel, not to save marriage per se, but to process the loss of the affair/ affair partner...

Just a hunch here, but I would bet money that was the case....I dunno...just be careful about giving her props for this(seeing a counselor)...Its very possible that you and your concerns weren't part of any of it..


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> the first lockdown made us spend 24/7 together and she couldn’t cope with a double life and she cracked and confessed.
> I see the credit card statements for the counsellor so I know it’s true.


The first lockdown started in _March_. She confessed in late September _after_ she knew you were onto her... I don't trust her story. 

Okay, so you know she saw a counselor but you don't know _why_. She could have been talking about divorcing you, etc. Also, she was banging her AP while doing MC with you so... Yes she was doing therapy and spending your money, but it could have been just for show. 

You ignore _a lot_ of questions, which is fine you don't have to answer anything, but it shows you're looking to explain away what you can and rug sweep the rest.


----------



## Mrchiller

So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


----------



## Mrchiller

hamadryad said:


> While I have no way to know, someone who was that invested likely sought out counsel, not to save marriage per se, but to process the loss of the affair/ affair partner...
> 
> Just a hunch here, but I would bet money that was the case....I dunno...just be careful about giving her props for this(seeing a counselor)...Its very possible that you and your concerns weren't part of any of it..


She started the counselling a few months before the affair to tell the counsellor she thinks she is going to have an affair and not sure what to do. I was severely depressed at this stage so ignoring her pleas to join her sessions. She’s been having those sessions with the same counsellor on and off for 3 years.


----------



## jsmart

Mrchiller said:


> He lost his job in the gym last summer after the gym found out he had a fake certificate of qualification. That says it all in terms of what a con artist piece of scum he is.


everyone here knows that OM is a complete POS who is way less of a man than you are. But the issue is that your WW saw him as more desirable than the man she built a family with over all these years. A complete POS was in serious contention for her heart against the man who fathered and raised her three kids.
What does that say about your WW

This was not a no strings attached sex only affair. Your WW fell hard for this guy.
Just like @MJJEAN said, that the type of drama your WW had with OM very likely took the sex to crazy heights which of course got your WW so hooked on him.


----------



## Mrchiller

bobert said:


> The first lockdown started in _March_. She confessed in late September _after_ she knew you were onto her... I don't trust her story.
> 
> Okay, so you know she saw a counselor but you don't know _why_. She could have been talking about divorcing you, etc. Also, she was banging her AP while doing MC with you so... Yes she was doing therapy and spending your money, but it could have been just for show.
> 
> You ignore _a lot_ of questions, which is fine you don't have to answer anything, but it shows you're looking to explain away what you can and rug sweep the rest.


I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


----------



## sokillme

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


I think you would be wise to assume that you have no idea who your wife is or how she thinks. But she is not a good person. 

Look I know my posts caused you all this anxiety, and I am sorry this is hard for you but this is your wife's doing not mine. Look this sucks for you right now but this is like chemo you have to go through the pain of coming to the reality of who you are married to. So sorry for what's next but the most painful truth you HAVE TO ACCEPT is that NO she doesn't love you, not in the way that a wife should love a husband. Without loyalty there is no love. Often times people mistake the want to be with someone for love and of course your wife wants to be with you, her whole life will blow up if you divorce, but love is a verb, an action. In the same way she wanted to be with this asshole. Her actions prove that there is no love. 

Quit looking at this women like she is the only path to happiness, if a path at all. What she has done to you, your kids and your marriage is monstrous. Start to see her for who she is and it will become more easy to move on. 

As far as your kids go, better to be from a divorced home then a broken one. Do your kids know she cheated? What are you teaching them by staying? Will your kids follow your path or hers? They might if the lesson is there are no consequences for these evil actions.

Do you really want to be a man whose wife is pining away for the man she crushed your soul with? Do you really want to be that guy? How about you empower yourself take control of your life and move on. She doesn't love you dude. She loves herself. And even if she did, YOU CAN DO BETTER. YOU ARE WORTH MORE. YOUR SELF RESPECT IS WORTH MORE. 

You can find a women who when you are depressed helps you not runs to some meathead. There are thousands of women you could meet tomorrow. 

Know your worth. Get in shape, work on yourself and be an example of strength for your kids. In the long run you will have a much better life. 

One of the lessons that is hard for people to learn in life is that everything in life ends. But your wife ended your marriage when she cheated. At least the marriage you once knew. Sometimes you have to accept that you lost the battle. The game was rigged, and you never had a chance. But you have to accept it so you don't lose the war. You have your whole life ahead of you. Don't spend it trying to desperately make this person who abused you love you, if she is even capable. So much of reconciliation is trying desperately so hard for so very little. Is it really going to be a fulfilling life? Is it the life you want? If you give up there are hundreds of other games out there that you can play and win. 

Look how all of us are posting on here? Look at the threads I posted. The collected wisdom is you will heal an have joy again. You will not regret it, it will set up the rest of your life. But it's up to you. 

You need to get strong either way. At the very least you need to balance the emotional power dynamic your marriage , kill your emotional love for your wife, love her but not be in love with her. That is what she did.


----------



## Marc878

Living on hopium won’t get you there. A dose of reality is what you need.

better wake up


----------



## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> He lost his job in the gym last summer after the gym found out he had a fake certificate of qualification. That says it all in terms of what a con artist piece of scum he is.


No. That shows what a piece of shyte your wife was willing to crawl all over for a couple years. This bit tells you as much about her as him.



Mrchiller said:


> She started the counselling a few months before the affair to tell the counsellor she thinks she is going to have an affair and not sure what to do. I was severely depressed at this stage so ignoring her pleas to join her sessions. She’s been having those sessions with the same counsellor on and off for 3 years.


Well, this blows her whole taken advantage of narrative, don't it? She started seeing someone because she knew she was heading toward an affair. And then she found someone to have an affair with. She knew she was driving down that road and she decided to keep on driving rather than turn off at the nearest exit.

Also, 3 years and the counselor failed to prevent the affair or convince her to come clean and end the affair? Either her counselor is absolute trash and she needs a new one or the counselor was competent and she just wanted to screw a new guy so bad the counselor couldn't help her because she didn't actually want help.



Mrchiller said:


> I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future.


Well, at present, you're married to a woman who is with you for the kids, because she's attached to you, because she doesn't want to get old alone, and who is not in love with or attracted to you.

What future does that tell you to prepare for? Answer: a forced going through the motions marriage built on ashes or a divorce.



Mrchiller said:


> People can change.


Sure they can. We usually suggest therapy. Except your wife was in therapy before, during, and after her affair, so I'd take a guess and say what you see is what you get.



Mrchiller said:


> Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for.


Certainly you can salvage the marriage. But you must as yourself what, exactly, you are salvaging and why. You can stay married and accept you're both there because kids, fear of being alone, and the echo of what was once love. Many people do. For them, that is enough.



Mrchiller said:


> I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


Uh-huh. So, you see them behind closed doors, do you? The people who beat the "it made our marriage better" drum the loudest are often the most full of poop.

I have a TON of examples, but the closest one to me is my brother. Look at his marriage from the outside view of their friends and our wider family it's the perfect marriage, they are deeply in love, yadda yadda. Sure, she cheated earlier, but they worked it out and are more in love than ever!

Reality? She's a literal drug addict and he screws anything that stands still long enough.



Mrchiller said:


> She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


And how did that conversation go? If you want to stay married and she does, as well, then take it as read that the marriage exists for convenience sake and come to peace with that.


----------



## Marc878

She told what you need to know but you refuse to believe it.

Why?


----------



## sokillme

Mrchiller said:


> I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


How many men do you think are happy with a women who pines away for the guy she collectively destroyed her husband and family with?

Do you really think she loves you? What do her actions show you? Why are you acting like she is the only woman in the world?

Why would you settle for so little?

My belief is no rational healthy person would be happy with that.

The affair was a catalyst for happiness huh? Ever hear of stockholm syndrome? People who say that are liars, mostly to themselves. A good tell is that that is pretty much the fact that the affair is pretty much still the entire focus of the marriage, and often their life. Which makes it still an unhealthy marriage. 

This affair wasn't a one night stand immediate regret and confession. It was a whole second life. 

Good luck man.


----------



## Nailhead

Mrchiller said:


> Yes there has been full disclosure. Every detail. She’s not “giving me” sex, i want to emotionally connect and the physical side will follow. I know it’s easy to throw rockets at her but she dealt with my depression for 6 years, on her own. I gave her no attention then. I used her for sex to relieve my depression so her affair was triggered by me.
> We were and are so compatible. Do you not think trying to salvage a marriage should be the primary focus? It’s only been 4 months since she told me. Key phrase, she told me. Not me finding it. The double life was killing her.


Do not accept responsibility for your WW affair. Your WW had a choice to talk to you about it, get counseling or divorce before pursuing another. Your WW fired you as a H but did not bother to tell you. The double life was killing her? Are you serious?


----------



## Nailhead

Mrchiller said:


> Honest question. Why is my marriage doomed when there are so many stories of people whose partners have had an affair for years? I get all your comments and thanks for the outside view, it’s great to give me a reality check but she has been remorseful, what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for? Her AP didn’t dump her, she dumped him and showed me the messages. It’s been 4 months no contact.


It takes two to reconcile. Other than the above, what else is your WW doing to be one of the two needed to reconcile? By you post it appears only you are doing the work.


----------



## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for.


Ok. The help and guidance I have to offer you is that 1) yes, you can get through it; and 2) no, you cannot salvage this marriage.



Mrchiller said:


> I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness.
> There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


The couple you know would be an ideal source for the story you want. It is obviously one of the few cases in which the guy was sufficiently contrite to help his wife through it, providing nurture and definable acts of repentance, and a case in which the wife was willing to accept being "plan B" in return for security, money, kids, etc.



sokillme said:


> My belief is no rational healthy person would be happy with that.


Mine, too.

We can only share from our own experiences...and, please, do not expect that you will find the majority of the stories to be "optimistic" or "positive". You are finding the majority here.

I am not a chemist. I flunked organic. However, it doesn't take a chemist to know that an affair is only the "catalyst" to pain, loss of personal esteem, and despair on the part of the BS, and ego-kibbles, oxytocin, fun, and fulfilled desire on the part of the WS (temporarily).


----------



## Diana7

hamadryad said:


> Unfortunately, and for whatever reason I don't know, when women have affairs, it's often blamed on the guy..."he was emotionally unavailable" .."he spent too much time working and ignored my needs" etc...
> 
> When guys step out, they are "selfish and narcissistic sexual predators that abandoned their families for a piece of ass..."
> 
> Perhaps this is the game going on here as well? I dunno....Just that it does seem like that has been the case in my experiences...


The ones who cheat make such feeble excuses but the rest of us know its lies and trying to justify their bad behaviour. I think that most here see male and female cheaters in the same way, at least I do.


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


Yep, its the old I love you but am not in love with you, when people have affairs. They mistake the lust and secrecy and excitment for true love when its anything but. In the end do you want to spend the rest of you life with a woman who just loves you in this way as a sort of house mate? What if she never gets that desire back she once had for you? Trouble is that when you have an affair, you have a bond with that person and even if you stop the affair its still there.


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


I suspect there are very few marriages that are better than before, if any. They may still be married but something has always been lost. Trust and truth have been lost. Honesty has been lost. Intimacy has been lost.


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> He lost his job in the gym last summer after the gym found out he had a fake certificate of qualification. That says it all in terms of what a con artist piece of scum he is.


And what does that make her being that she did exactly the same as him? I have noticed that men whose wives cheat always blame the horrible bad man who took advanatage of the poor little vulnerable woman.Surely you can see how skewed that is? If she suspected very early on that things were getting too close, she could easily have stopped seeing him then and got a female trainer. In fact why didnt she get a female trainer anyway? There is no way that I would train regularly and alone with a man especially with the things you hear, its just askng for trouble. Where are her boundaries?


----------



## jlg07

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


So I realize how hard this is for you, but you wife gave you some VERY important information in those three items that YOU need to really think about and understand.

She's with you for the "kids sake" and "loves you and wants to grow old with you but is NOT in love with you". This should tell you that she wants this to work out so that SHE gets to continue her current life. YOU get to pay the bills, support the kids, and support HER so that HER lifestyle doesn't have to change.
THINK about that. Is what she said showing that she RESPECTS you, that she WANTS a true marriage to be committed to you?

She still has feelings, but not in touch for 4 months. This should CLEARLY indicate to you that it was way more than just "sex". If HE had a solid job, wanted to take her on with the kids, what do you think SHE would have done? I bet you would already be in divorce proceedings.

She's trying hard to be affectionate but can't force it. SHE knows YOU Need her to be affectionate, and to continue the lifestyle she wants to show that, but she REALLY DOES NOT feel that for you anymore (and it probably won't come back).

Please take off the rose colored glasses and REALLY look at her. LOOK at who she REALLY is by her actions, NOT by what she says. Do you think additional counseling is going to help her understand WHY she had the affair and even more important how to protect AGAINST that so it doesn't happen again? Didn't help her before the affair, so...
What does she actually bring to the table for your marriage (not the kids, etc. - JUST your relationship), and again do NOT look at this with emotion -- look at it in the cold light of day based on WHAT she has done.


----------



## Rob_1

From the very first post by the OP, I could see that his threat was going to be "say anything, but don't tell me to dump her."

Dude, basically, you have been behaving like a weak man, rug sweeping, accepting, now "Besotted" with your wife (WTF), really. You actually don't need any advice, just bend over and accept any crumps your wife throws your way, you'll be happy any which way. She basically told you that she doesn't love you, that she's in for the kids (and her financial well being), and you like the sad, weak man that you are, keeps asking how to keep your wife.

You can't force anyone to love you, that's pathetic. Your lack of self respect, confounded with your mental issues; which is what is causing you to suffer those boughs of depression to the point of wanting to commit suicide will prevent your wife (or any other woman) from being attracted to you. Women are attracted to strong, self confident men that project "that" energy that attract them. You are not "that". In her eyes, most likely what she sees is "pity" towards you. Very hard for women to reverse that view of a man to one of a strong, confident man.

My view/post may seen harsh, and underserving to you, but rest assure, that I'm trying in a harsh way for you to see reality, not what you want see; which nobody here has been able to make you see, neither I think that I will. Just carry on then, it seems to you prefer her over your pride, dignity, and self respect as a man and as an individual.


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife said she is staying "for the kids". That she is not in love with you. That she is still in love with her AP. (Her saying she still has feelings for him means this).

What marriage are you trying to save? Your wife has been in love with her AP for years and you probably will never know the real reason they spit. She is obviously still in love with him. There is no marriage, only a piece of paper saying you are husband and wife. Frame that paper and put it on the wall. That is all you will have for many, many years to make you feel better.

I wish you luck with they path you choose.


----------



## MJJEAN

Diana7 said:


> I have noticed that men whose wives cheat always blame the horrible bad man who took advanatage of the poor little vulnerable woman.


This annoys me to no end. Seriously, folks, are we talking grown competent women here or simpletons? A grown ass woman knows damn well when a male is interested in her as a lover. Most of us have been on the receiving end of that kind of interest since our boobs came in. If one missed it as a teen then they certainly figured it out while dating as adults.

So, either the woman knew what was happening and carried on anyway or she is a complete fool easily lead and is so prone to being taken advantage of that she cannot reliably navigate the adult world. Either way she's not a suitable partner.


----------



## ciuleandra

I am so sorry...maybe some guidelines for couple could help
like this one 



 wish you be brave and keep strong!


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> This annoys me to no end. Seriously, folks, are we talking grown competent women here or simpletons? A grown ass woman knows damn well when a male is interested in her as a lover. Most of us have been on the receiving end of that kind of interest since our boobs came in. If one missed it as a teen then they certainly figured it out while dating as adults.
> 
> So, either the woman knew what was happening and carried on anyway or she is a complete fool easily lead and is so prone to being taken advantage of that she cannot reliably navigate the adult world. Either way she's not a suitable partner.


I guess its because they cant let themselves think that their wives may actually have gone after the OM or at least been a willing party. They are lying to themleves.


----------



## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


Listen, the way people get to those “happy ever afters” is by proving that their cheater can’t get away with cheating, when the cheater finally realizes they are going to lose something valuable and irreplaceable, sometimes then they can turn it around. There are some stories of men who did that on on these boards. They didn’t coddle their wife through her feelings and missing her affair partner, they let her know they were worth more. Way more. And they did that by not tolerating any of this bull poopy you are tolerating from her. You are making yourself the option, the less desirable option. 

She is not in love with you, and wants to be with you for the kids. Without the context of cheating, this does not make a happily ever after all on its own. You’re asking for water from a rock. This is what everyone is trying SO HARD to make you see. She is plainly telling you, she does not have romantic feelings for you, she just feels comfortable and safe being your affectionate roommate. And when she finds another man that makes her feel “romantic” you will be here again.


----------



## sokillme

OP, you want to understand your wife - read this. Though painful it's probably pretty close.

Sorry I know this will be hard but it's the truth.


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Mrchiller said:


> I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


There is a Reconciliation forum here at TAM, and one on SurvivingInfidelity.com that might be helpful. Reconciling can be done for sure.

What kind of a marriage you're left with though... 2.5 years of ****ing another man. That's a lifestyle as much as an affair. She has feelings still for the other man - gee thanks wife, so happy you want to reconcile with me. She told you she'll stay for the kids. So there's your marriage if you want it - married for the kids.

Things might well improve over time. She might cheat again, too, that's a real possibility.

Maybe you could consider an open marriage. You essentially had one for 2.5 years.

You're looking at a long hard slog of a reconciliation to get back to a semblance of what you had before this mess. Several years duration is often talked about. Would be nice if your wife was in it 100% with you to work on it. She's not right now - in it for the kids.


----------



## Evinrude58

Short of witchcraft and love potions, I don’t think there’s a way to make a woman fall back in love with a man. I wish there was.

OP’s wife clearly doesn’t love him romantically anymore. She ruined that by giving her emotions to another man for years.

He doesn’t want the advice that will help him the most. But just because the medicine may taste bad, doesn’t mean it’s the wrong medicine.

Who has an answer on how to make a woman fall in love with a man?


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## mickybill

There were 2 times in my past where I got the "I love you but I am not in love with you" line.
As the old saying goes everything before the word "but" is bullsh!t. Your WW does not love you, but you are maybe a friend....
Sorry to say but only a tiny % of couples can come back from an affair/second life like yours and it takes huge effort from both parties. I think you should continue on the path to divorce.


----------



## Mrchiller

Evinrude58 said:


> Short of witchcraft and love potions, I don’t think there’s a way to make a woman fall back in love with a man. I wish there was.
> 
> OP’s wife clearly doesn’t love him romantically anymore. She ruined that by giving her emotions to another man for years.
> 
> He doesn’t want the advice that will help him the most. But just because the medicine may taste bad, doesn’t mean it’s the wrong medicine.
> 
> Who has an answer on how to make a woman fall in love with a man?


No I’m starting to see sense. I think you all might be right here. I’ve got my love goggles on and I don’t think she can ever fall in love with me. I’m clutching for hope but I think the reality is there is no hope. We have a couples therapy session next week, I’m going to throw the “I want a divorce card” in that session. I think you are all right, I need to man up. I’ve been a *****.


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## OddOne

Mrchiller said:


> No I’m starting to see sense. I think you all might be right here. I’ve got my love goggles on and I don’t think she can ever fall in love with me. I’m clutching for hope but I think the reality is there is no hope. We have a couples therapy session next week, I’m going to throw the “I want a divorce card” in that session. I think you are all right, I need to man up. I’ve been a ***.


I wouldn't do this. Your WW may not be as committed, prepared for divorce as she implies. You run the risk of both of them trying to rationalize to you how you "need to give your WW more time," etc. But my guess is that you on some level hope she will fall on her knees and beg you to give her that chance. If you are going for shock and awe, you don't need to do in in front of a therapist. Do you really believe you won't fold if you are ganged up on and told you are being unreasonable by your wife and the therapist?


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## Evinrude58

Wolfman1968 said:


> religious





Mrchiller said:


> No I’m starting to see sense. I think you all might be right here. I’ve got my love goggles on and I don’t think she can ever fall in love with me. I’m clutching for hope but I think the reality is there is no hope. We have a couples therapy session next week, I’m going to throw the “I want a divorce card” in that session. I think you are all right, I need to man up. I’ve been a ***.


I just read where you said she admitted she’s not in love with you and is staying fit the kids. So she told you the truth.... 

I know exactly how you’re feeling. Who wants to start from scratch in life? Who wants to not have that family that when you’re old, the kids and grandkids all come back to on holidays? Who wants to divide up their fortunes and time with their kids? Who wants to date again?

the anxiety? Seriously. See your doctor and get on some zoloft or anti anxiety meds action. Nobody knows the incredible pain you’re going through unless they’ve endured it.

Brother, get divorced. Don’t fear it. She’s given you a gift. You won’t see it that way for a while but will when you do find another woman that shows you the love you’ve been missing for years. If your wife does actually find feelings for you again, you can always date her if you want. I can personally guarantee you that a couple of years from now, you won’t have any feelings for her good or bad. She’ll be like a stranger. But it’s a stranger you’ll know in their heart and you won’t ever want in that heart again.

You really have no choice but to endure this horrid pain for a while. But while you’re in this pain, you CANNOT have any hope f your wife falling in love with you again. It makes you unattractive to anyone, certainly unattractive to her.
Accept it and bear it as best you can.

when it’s passed in a couple of years, you can figure out what you really want. I’ll bet it’s not her. You’re just in pain and in your pain, you are feeling weak. There’s no damn way you’d want to be with her if you weren’t in this weak state of mind.

I’m sorry. I know how bad it hurts. But you will make it. And there is light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


I'm sorry for your suffering, this is extremely difficult for anyone, much less someone who already battles with mental health issues. However, I am glad the truth of the matter came out. 

Living a lie erodes your sense of self and you'd suffer more in the long run. No one here likes seeing you in oain, we just know it will be so much worse the longer this goes on and want to spare you that.



Mrchiller said:


> No I’m starting to see sense. I think you all might be right here. I’ve got my love goggles on and I don’t think she can ever fall in love with me. I’m clutching for hope but I think the reality is there is no hope. We have a couples therapy session next week, I’m going to throw the “I want a divorce card” in that session. I think you are all right, I need to man up. I’ve been a ***.


You are not a ***** or unworthy in any way. You're a man who got cut off at the knees loving a selfish, uncaring person. I think you and your children deserve so much better.

It's SO hard now, many of us have been down that road. We're here to offer support while you heal.


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## TJW

Therapy is a business. A business looks for repeat business.

A therapist is not needed for a divorce.

If you're going to divorce, don't waste your money on therapy.

It's always amazed me how divorces require lawyers, judges, mediators, etc.
However, when divorced people decide to remarry ? None of these are required. Just go get a license, a blood test, and a JP. Same as first time around.

And, you're not a "***" for wanting your life to remain intact with your children and a wife you loved.


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## hamadryad

The real issue is the kids....They are always the issue....This guy can't ever separate fully from her, because of the kids...They are linked for a looong time and possibly forever...at least until the kids are old enough and are out on their own...That is a long way off at this point....

I guess one scenario is to make peace. forget about the romantic aspect of the marriage, and move to another part of the house...Continue to live with her as co parents, and start getting a life going for himself, while continuing to provide some stability for the kids...It wouldn't be the first time parents did this type of thing...It's not ideal, but neither is blowing up lives in a messy divorce..


----------



## QuietRiot

Marriage counseling is probably a reason why OP even feels this way and makes these excuses for her and blames himself.

I dragged my WH by his ear to the MC to hear some **** like “oh how painful for you WH that you didn’t feel enough affection and love in your marriage. That must have been so upsetting.” Or “Maybe you need to take some time WH and figure out what you really want. Make a list of 10 things you love about your wife for our next session.”, “Now we can’t pressure someone who is so fresh from an affair to recommit to the marriage just yet.”
And my favorite, “Hold each other’s hand and look into each others eyes when you are speaking about how your WH made you feel.” You want me to touch this guy who stabbed me in the heart? The vomiting and panic attacks don’t relay my feelings well enough?

99% of marriage counselors DONT GET IT. We’ve been through 4 of them and wish I’d never gone. I’d advise to stay far far away unless you like your mind-Fck extra crispy.


----------



## Mrchiller

OddOne said:


> I wouldn't do this. Your WW may not be as committed, prepared for divorce as she implies. You run the risk of both of them trying to rationalize to you how you "need to give your WW more time," etc. But my guess is that you on some level hope she will fall on her knees and beg you to give her that chance. If you are going for shock and awe, you don't need to do in in front of a therapist. Do you really believe you won't fold if you are ganged up on and told you are being unreasonable by your wife and the therapist?


That’s very true. Ok I won’t do that then. The therapist is very good though, she’s been neutral, positive and realistic.


----------



## Mrchiller

QuietRiot said:


> Marriage counseling is probably a reason why OP even feels this way and makes these excuses for her and blames himself.
> 
> I dragged my WH by his ear to the MC to hear some **** like “oh how painful for you WH that you didn’t feel enough affection and love in your marriage. That must have been so upsetting.” Or “Maybe you need to take some time WH and figure out what you really want. Make a list of 10 things you love about your wife for our next session.”, “Now we can’t pressure someone who is so fresh from an affair to recommit to the marriage just yet.”
> And my favorite, “Hold each other’s hand and look into each others eyes when you are speaking about how your WH made you feel.” You want me to touch this guy who stabbed me in the heart? The vomiting and panic attacks don’t relay my feelings well enough?
> 
> 99% of marriage counselors DONT GET IT. We’ve been through 4 of them and wish I’d never gone. I’d advise to stay far far away unless you like your mind-Fck extra crispy.


I agree, most are digging for more issues to get paid longer. My personal therapist has been good though. When I told him my wife was having an affair, he shed a tear (he’s in his 70s so old school). He is the one encouraging me to salvage the marriage.


----------



## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> I agree, most are digging for more issues to get paid longer. My personal therapist has been good though. When I told him my wife was having an affair, he shed a tear (he’s in his 70s so old school). He is the one encouraging me to salvage the marriage.


The problem is they want you to salvage the marriage with a reluctant partner. I’m speaking from experience. It cannot happen this way. She would need to be 1000% committed to WINNING YOU back and doing everything she can to put this mess back together. The best you’ve gotten from her is “I’m comfortable, I’ll stay for the kids.” You don’t reconcile with any sort of “meh I guess you’ll do.” You deserve BETTER.


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> I agree, most are digging for more issues to get paid longer. My personal therapist has been good though. When I told him my wife was having an affair, *he shed a tear* (he’s in his 70s so old school). He is the one encouraging me to salvage the marriage.


That might make a good friend, but it does not make a good therapist. 

Also, it's not his job to encourage you one way or the other. It's his job to help you figure out what YOU want.


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## Evinrude58

Mrchiller said:


> I agree, most are digging for more issues to get paid longer. My personal therapist has been good though. When I told him my wife was having an affair, he shed a tear (he’s in his 70s so old school). He is the one encouraging me to salvage the marriage.


Was this before or after she told you she wasn’t in love w you anymore?
What you have here is: 










unsalvageable


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## Mrchiller

hamadryad said:


> The real issue is the kids....They are always the issue....This guy can't ever separate fully from her, because of the kids...They are linked for a looong time and possibly forever...at least until the kids are old enough and are out on their own...That is a long way off at this point....
> 
> I guess one scenario is to make peace. forget about the romantic aspect of the marriage, and move to another part of the house...Continue to live with her as co parents, and start getting a life going for himself, while continuing to provide some stability for the kids...It wouldn't be the first time parents did this type of thing...It's not ideal, but neither is blowing up lives in a messy divorce..


Just to be clear, we currently get on. We always have apart from summer 2020 when the double life pressure pushed her to be nasty. We joke, laugh, smile. We were so compatible. We were soul mates for sure. We cuddle at night in bed, every night. We watch tv holding hands, if not, we sit really close. I wake up sometimes in the middle of the night (more like always) and sometimes she is clasping my hands. She could be playing me totally or she could be genuinely trying to give it a go as she says. And she needs help to get through it. 
the last week I’ve been an emotional wreck, paranoid.Panic and anxiety attacks. Prior to this week, I have manned up, exercising 4 days a week, looking after myself. But, I have no desire to remain married JUST for the kids. That doesn’t work for me. I need a wife. As you can tell from my posts, I am in schizo mode - wanting to save the marriage then recognising the brutal truth. The wealth of experience on this forum is priceless and something I respect and appreciate.


----------



## Mrchiller

bobert said:


> That might make a good friend, but it does not make a good therapist.
> 
> Also, it's not his job to encourage you one way or the other. It's his job to help you figure out what YOU want.


I told him I wanted to salvage and he started to encourage me with the caveat that it was going to be a long uphill turbulent ride


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## Gabriel

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


What did you confront her about that got these answers from her?

#2 might be temporary. Women especially fall in love with affair partners and it takes time for them to fall out of love. My wife had a much shorter affair, and it took her awhile to snap out of it. Her love for him will dissipate if they truly never see each other or contact each other. But it will take time.

#2/#3/#4 are all in line with normal post-affair behavior. Only time or trauma changes this. In her case, likely it will take a long time given the length of her affair.

But she's been out of love with you a very long time. I don't see that coming back at this point. Her wanting to grow old with you is because it's familiar and convenient. My guess is if you said F it, I'm done, you destroyed me, she would accept that result. Maybe even be relieved. She doesn't want to be the one to officially make that decision. 

She wants to pin it on you.


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## Tatsuhiko

I think you'll discover that her attitude changes drastically when you announce your plans for divorce. The change will be even more dramatic if you serve her with divorce papers. Whether her efforts at reconciliation are sincere is the question you'll grapple with. I really don't see anything redeeming about her at this point. She was in the affair for 2.5 years and wishes she was still in it.


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## Evinrude58

I agree. She will likely bang the hell out of you for a short time just out of fear of losing her wallet, if you filed. Once she felt secure again, the sex would evaporate. 
She admits she still loves a “personal trainer” 🤮 and isn’t “in love” with you.
If you weren’t broken by her betrayal and in such a terrible state, she’d repulse you.
Even if she rocked your world every night, once you got secure and feeling yourself, you’d dwell on what she did, the cognitive dissonance would finally unwind your thoughts, and you wouldn’t want sex with her anymore. 
Truthfully, what she did is unforgivable, and in her mind—— it’s still happening !
Every time she closes her eyes, she’s thinking of him inside her.
You can’t live with that any more than any man. You married her so you could have a faithful wife who was loyal and only thinking of YOU. What you have here isn’t worth dinner and a movie, must less a marriage vow.


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## SnowToArmPits

Mrchiller said:


> Just to be clear, we currently get on. We always have apart from summer 2020 when the double life pressure pushed her to be nasty. We joke, laugh, smile. We were so compatible. We were soul mates for sure. We cuddle at night in bed, every night. We watch tv holding hands, if not, we sit really close. I wake up sometimes in the middle of the night (more like always) and sometimes she is clasping my hands. She could be playing me totally or she could be genuinely trying to give it a go as she says. And she needs help to get through it.


Any husband with a heart would find this confusing and leave him in turmoil. Not surprising at all where you're at mentally.


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## MJJEAN

Mrchiller said:


> (he’s in his 70s so old school). He is the one encouraging me to salvage the marriage.


Back in his day that's what people did. They ate the shyte sammich and stayed. 



Mrchiller said:


> I told him I wanted to salvage and he started to encourage me with the caveat that it was going to be a long uphill turbulent ride


It's a long, uphill, turbulent slog you don't have to go on.



Mrchiller said:


> We joke, laugh, smile. We were so compatible. We were soul mates for sure. We cuddle at night in bed, every night. We watch tv holding hands, if not, we sit really close. I wake up sometimes in the middle of the night (more like always) and sometimes she is clasping my hands. She could be playing me totally or she could be genuinely trying to give it a go as she says.


There is no such thing as soul mates. There are about 8 billion people on the planet. Any one of us is compatible with any number of them.

You sound like really good friends, but don't mistake the need for touch and affection for romantic love. They are not the same thing.

I would guess she actually does want to save the marriage and she is trying. The issues are that A) she isn't in love with you and hasn't been for some time B) she is still in love with her AP, and C) she herself cannot manufacture romantic love and attraction. It either exists or not.

She's not interested in saving the marriage because she desperately loves you and thinks you're sexy as hell, to boot. She is interested in saving the marriage because kids, being older and not as valuable on the dating market, fear of being alone, desire for security, etc. So, yeah, she may be trying, but for reasons that have nothing to do with spousal love and everything to do with how being single would effect her.



Mrchiller said:


> As you can tell from my posts, I am in schizo mode - wanting to save the marriage then recognising the brutal truth. The wealth of experience on this forum is priceless and something I respect and appreciate.


We get it, man, we really do. I was a BS before I became a WS. I know exactly what you're feeling and most of the board has been there at one time or another.


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## SnowToArmPits

Do you workout? If yes, go at it hard, get lifting weights. If not, get busy and work out til you're nearly exhausted.

Burn off the stress. Stay with this for the rest of 2021.

You may not get as fit as ****boy, who cares, you can tune up Mrchiller 2.0 ready for the next lovely lady to come into your life.

Get your wife to look after the kids for time for you to make this happen. Also, give yourself lots of TLC, you deserve it for being a good guy and great father. Get a little selfish. Your wife certainly did.


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## Mr.Married

Happy Birthday..... Infidelity is the gift that keeps giving (mind movies, anxiety, doubt..)

Your fighting a losing battle with a woman who doesn’t love you. Give yourself the biggest present ever and get the f’ing divorce.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mrchiller said:


> I’m trying to piece a 5000 jigsaw puzzle together and can’t because it’s actually many mixed sets. I’ll never get the answers I want. My therapist says try to understand the present to prepare for the future. That’s what I am trying to get out of this thread, not what a terrible person my wife was, betraying me for 2.5 years. I know that. She committed a crime. The worst crime to me. People can change. Can I get through this and salvage the marriage? That’s what I need help and guidance for. I know a couple who turned things around after the guy cheated on his wife and she found out. They are in love 8 years on. No one would know. The affair was the catalyst to their happiness. There are some optimistic positive stories. I want to hear those. Not the doom and gloom ones .....


The reason no one is giving you the positive support is because the ingredients for success are not there. 

Really, dude, you need to look at some of the successful stories. For example, look at @No Longer Lonely Husband 's story, if it is still there. He and his wife reconciled from an affair, but they had the necessary components to make it successful. His wife wasn't pining for the AP; she in fact looked at him with disgust. His wife still valued and desired him as a husband and sexual partner; your wife admits flat out that she doesn't feel that way to you, only a more or less platonic affection. He took a firm stance kept HER responsible. You don't; you are bending yourself into a pretzel making excuses for her, and you are trying to force the reconciliation. You can't force a reconciliation any more that you can force someone to love another person, or get turned on sexually by another person. It doesn't happen just because you will it.

People are not just down on your wife because of the "crime" (in your words) she committed against you; they are down on her because she does not appear to meet the requirements necessary for a successful reconciliation. 

Look, to make a cake you need the ingredients of flour, eggs, sugar, etc. You can't have a box with just gravel and cow manure and somehow "will" it into being a delicious cake just because you want it to be so. And pointing out other people who successfully made a cake doesn't mean anything. If all you have is the gravel and cow manure, you just aren't going to succeed. Believing you can turn your cow manure into a cake is not hope or optimism; it's just denial and inability to understand that you can't proceed without the necessary ingredients.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Mrchiller said:


> So last night I had an anxiety attack after reading all these messages and confronted my wife. She confessed that she’s with me (1) for the kids sake (2) she loves me and wants to grow old with me but not in love with me (3) she still has feelings for her AP but hasn’t been in touch for nearly 4 months. (4) she’s trying hard to be affectionate but she can’t force it. We talked about divorce properly for the first time.


My friend, she is telling you right now, in plain English-- she doesn't desire you or value you as a wife should feel toward her husband. How can you possibly ignore this? It's over.


----------



## colingrant

Mrchiller said:


> No I’m starting to see sense. I think you all might be right here. I’ve got my love goggles on and I don’t think she can ever fall in love with me. I’m clutching for hope but I think the reality is there is no hope. We have a couples therapy session next week, I’m going to throw the “*I want a divorce card*” in that session. I think you are all right, I need to man up. I’ve been a ***.


 Don't say "I want a divorce" because that implies it's hers to give you, which again disempowers you and falsely empowers her. You say, "We are getting a divorce". This is a statement of finality of which you made a singular decision that impacts your life and hers. Interestingly it's the same singular decision she made to engage infidelity thus impacting her life and yours. Yes, it would be good for her to agree to a divorce, but at this stage you're in charge and it starts with you making this claim. 

In fact, I think it'd be more powerful (for you) if you actually start the process and announce it at the counseling. Time to discontinue the self-marginalization. Also be careful characterizing it as a "divorce card" as it implies you're saying it to manipulate or scaring her into reversing her position which would weaken you in her eyes and your own eyes perhaps. 

Can't talk tall and proceed small. If she doesn't love you she sure will learn to respect you when she sees you're sincere with being able to move on with your life. A wayward woman thinks less of the man who can tolerate their wayward ways. The statement and disposition while saying discussing divorce is non-threatening or thrown as a verbal weapon to injure her. It is a decision to reclaim your control over your life and should be stated firmly, confidently and uncompromisingly for your benefit and not hers. 

This will be very evident and the moment you deliver this is when your personal triumphant return to happiness will pivot for you. You will not feel this right away because you're doing the very thing you heart doesn't wish to do, but in time it will be evident.


----------



## syhoybenden

Wolfman1968 said:


> Look, to make a cake you need the ingredients of flour, eggs, sugar, etc. You can't have a box with just gravel and cow manure and somehow "will" it into being a delicious cake just because you want it to be so. And pointing out other people who successfully made a cake doesn't mean anything. If all you have is the gravel and cow manure, you just aren't going to succeed. Believing you can turn your cow manure into a cake is not hope or optimism; it's just denial and inability to understand that you can't proceed without the necessary ingredients.


EXACTLY!!

Now go and grow some self respect for God's sake and cut the beech loose.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mrchiller said:


> Honest question. Why is my marriage doomed when there are so many stories of people whose partners have had an affair for years? I get all your comments and thanks for the outside view, it’s great to give me a reality check but she has been remorseful, what I don’t know is if I am plan B or the person she fell for? Her AP didn’t dump her, she dumped him and showed me the messages. It’s been 4 months no contact.


So he gave her STD which she brought back for you. Did she ever think how many women/wives this guy was doing the same with. Your wife was just one of his concubines in his harem. She should ponder on that when she has the poor me yearnings for him. 

I would blow up his rep.Ironic how many cheating wives may get caught by contracting STD from this guy and passing it to their husbands. If you know of any other hubbys who this guy is training (possibly servicing) their wives...warn them!

My sister had a 2.5 yr affair on my BIL. He should have divorced her. OM wanted more and sister just wanted FB. OM broke up with her and she OD'ed and spent a couple weeks in mental hospital. Then she got a tat on her thigh from knee all the way past her hip to lower back. How F'ing nice to commemorate your 2.5 yr affair and say a big FU to your hubby. I would have rather she died in a wreck before the afair started that be a F'ing adultress. Ironically she went fron being a childrens SS teacher to saying she cant feel God any more......YA THINK!!!!


----------



## Mrchiller

Gabriel said:


> What did you confront her about that got these answers from her?
> 
> #2 might be temporary. Women especially fall in love with affair partners and it takes time for them to fall out of love. My wife had a much shorter affair, and it took her awhile to snap out of it. Her love for him will dissipate if they truly never see each other or contact each other. But it will take time.
> 
> #2/#3/#4 are all in line with normal post-affair behavior. Only time or trauma changes this. In her case, likely it will take a long time given the length of her affair.
> 
> But she's been out of love with you a very long time. I don't see that coming back at this point. Her wanting to grow old with you is because it's familiar and convenient. My guess is if you said F it, I'm done, you destroyed me, she would accept that result. Maybe even be relieved. She doesn't want to be the one to officially make that decision.
> 
> She wants to pin it on you.


I think you might be totally correct here. It’s clear she loves me and doesn’t want to hurt me again, making me feel rejected.


----------



## Mrchiller

Wolfman1968 said:


> The reason no one is giving you the positive support is because the ingredients for success are not there.
> 
> Really, dude, you need to look at some of the successful stories. For example, look at @No Longer Lonely Husband 's story, if it is still there. He and his wife reconciled from an affair, but they had the necessary components to make it successful. His wife wasn't pining for the AP; she in fact looked at him with disgust. His wife still valued and desired him as a husband and sexual partner; your wife admits flat out that she doesn't feel that way to you, only a more or less platonic affection. He took a firm stance kept HER responsible. You don't; you are bending yourself into a pretzel making excuses for her, and you are trying to force the reconciliation. You can't force a reconciliation any more that you can force someone to love another person, or get turned on sexually by another person. It doesn't happen just because you will it.
> 
> People are not just down on your wife because of the "crime" (in your words) she committed against you; they are down on her because she does not appear to meet the requirements necessary for a successful reconciliation.
> 
> Look, to make a cake you need the ingredients of flour, eggs, sugar, etc. You can't have a box with just gravel and cow manure and somehow "will" it into being a delicious cake just because you want it to be so. And pointing out other people who successfully made a cake doesn't mean anything. If all you have is the gravel and cow manure, you just aren't going to succeed. Believing you can turn your cow manure into a cake is not hope or optimism; it's just denial and inability to understand that you can't proceed without the necessary ingredients.


Nice analogy. I get what you saying. I guess I’m still in shock, an emotional mess and terrified of divorce and the implications on my kids. If my wife said, we’re over then that would make things easier. She’s saying she wants to try to make it work and if it doesn’t then at least we tried.


----------



## Mrchiller

So last night my wife and I spoke. I found a text on her old phone to a friend saying she would rather die than have sex with me (Aug 2020). Her confession was end Sept 2020. I told her how I felt about that and I don’t believe she can ever fall in love with me again. I said we should try for 3-6 months with counselling and if the dial doesn’t move, we start divorce. She agreed. We hugged in bed at night, her instigating it and clinging on to me. And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. She’s scared, in a mental mess but it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


----------



## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> guess I’m still in shock, an emotional mess and terrified of divorce and the implications on my kids.


Yes, There is no need to hurry, just have a plan. In my case, the implications upon my kids would have been horrendous. I learned that from speaking to my lawyer. By the grace of God, my lawyer was not out to get my money. He was an upright man who didn't even charge me for it, rather, he gave me the real skinny on divorce from where I sat.

What he told me, and what I knew about my WW caused me to make the decision to have an "emotional divorce" and stay in the house with my kids. My plan was to go my own way once the boys reached adulthood and moved out.

I think you can find a lawyer who is an upright person, too. Please include a lawyer visit and a discussion. You don't have to proceed with any action, just get the lawyer's advice.



Mrchiller said:


> it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


I truly desired to be wrong. Sorry I wasn't. I hope our "rightness" gives you some concrete steps in your path forward.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mrchiller, I am glad that you are beginning to see the truth.

For a very common set of reasons, your wife had an affair with an attractive bad boy and fell out of love with you. He was physically attractive. He was training her (position of authority and superiority). She was lustful. Her poor set of morals and boundaries allowed her to justify it. To further justify it she went to counselling to tell them that she was going to cheat!?!?!? And she continued doing it for 2.5 years. Not on and off like you say - the relationship was full on - the sex may have been on and off. And to add more colour to this, the chances are very high that he was screwing other women too (at the same time). That may be why the sex may have been on and off - no matter how fit he was he may not have been able to cope with juggling many women at times. Sure he was "in love" with all of them and your wife probably believes this. She definitely was in love with him - who wouldn't be in love with a hunk who is a trainer and is attracted and attractive to her.

I would love to know the context of the message to the friend - was it the friend asking if things could get back to normal with you, was it her pining for her lost love, was it a comment she initiated or what? But saying she would rather die than have sex with you is pretty telling that this is over as is "I am not in love with you". There really is no discussion after this. The last thing you should be in is marriage counselling. Her only doubts are to do with her own comfort and safety. Even after finding out that the trainer craphead was not really a trainer, she still has "feelings" for him - in other words she still misses the sex and the high of the affair. She has not really come out of the fog (if you want to call it that) and is looking for her fix. You have no chance against this. 

The fact is that you will start to look more and more attractive to her as you take steps to divorce and move away from her (apart from matters relating to the kids). As others have said, focus on yourself, be firm, improve your fitness, dress better/new haircut, whatever and do the 180 which is to help your mind heal. Her seeing you walk away decisively and seeing you getting on with your life will make you more attractive to her. However do not waiver. All this "niceness" from her is to help her cope with her own guilt and fears - it is not really for your benefit.

As others are saying she doesn't sound like she if of the right mettle to come out of this - she is still attracted to him (and deep down still feels that she can get him back again) but in th meantime will try everything to try and keep you hooked until she is ready to move again. She has had a taste of this so that even if he doesn't come back she now can move on to her next fling easily. 

So forget about the wife you had - she is gone (actually never was but that is a different story). Look at the wife you have now - someone who would rather die than sleep with you, is not in love with you, had a long term affair while married to you, still has feelings for the POSOM even though she knows he is a liar and a cheater, and is trying to give you hope because she needs your support. Would you marry a person like this if you knew all this upfront?


----------



## TJW

manfromlamancha said:


> the fog (if you want to call it that)


Exactly. It is not a "fog". It is selfishness and sin. You rightly call it a "crime"....God does, too...



manfromlamancha said:


> Would you marry a person like this if you knew all this upfront?


There it is..... the pivotal question..... my answer was no......but it took me some time to get to that answer.....


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> So last night my wife and I spoke. I found a text on her old phone to a friend saying she would rather die than have sex with me (Aug 2020). Her confession was end Sept 2020. I told her how I felt about that and I don’t believe she can ever fall in love with me again. I said we should try for 3-6 months with counselling and if the dial doesn’t move, we start divorce. She agreed. We hugged in bed at night, her instigating it and clinging on to me. And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. She’s scared, in a mental mess but it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


Wow that text was appalling. That must have hurt you deeply. For me that would have been the last straw if a man I was with thought/said that about me. At least now you know how she feels about you, and that she doesn't see you as a husband/lover. Not sure how 3 months of counselling is going to change the way she sees you if her feelings are that strong against you. Sorry. I think you are just like a brother to her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Sir, please grow a pair. You are being played like a violin. You suffer, while she experiences No consequence. Hmmmm. She has learned nothing from this misadventure except you will do anything, even eat the proverbial **** sandwich To stay with her.

I wish you the best, but I am afraid what you see is an illusion.


----------



## Mrchiller

TJW said:


> Yes, There is no need to hurry, just have a plan. In my case, the implications upon my kids would have been horrendous. I learned that from speaking to my lawyer. By the grace of God, my lawyer was not out to get my money. He was an upright man who didn't even charge me for it, rather, he gave me the real skinny on divorce from where I sat.
> 
> What he told me, and what I knew about my WW caused me to make the decision to have an "emotional divorce" and stay in the house with my kids. My plan was to go my own way once the boys reached adulthood and moved out.
> 
> I think you can find a lawyer who is an upright person, too. Please include a lawyer visit and a discussion. You don't have to proceed with any action, just get the lawyer's advice.
> 
> 
> 
> I truly desired to be wrong. Sorry I wasn't. I hope our "rightness" gives you some concrete steps in your path forward.


Thanks for your kind words. I think you prove every person’s situation is unique and there is no one size that fits all. I need to go slow to exactly have a plan; lawyer, sell house, find new place, stabilise kids


----------



## Gabriel

Yeah, no chance I could recover from that text, even if my wife begged to screw me.

I think you both know this marriage is over. The 3-6 months is fine. But not the way you think. You should use the 3-6 months to plan what you want your post-divorce life to look like. And heal. 

What has happened to you is the most traumatic thing you can probably ever experience, other than a death of a child. Think about this. It's unbelievable trauma. It takes a long time to process and heal from it. You have a ways to go.

My father died about 1 year after the most traumatic part of my wife's betrayal. That pain was nothing in comparison. Night and day.

Your #1 concern should be your health right now. Not saving a dead marriage.


----------



## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> So last night my wife and I spoke. I found a text on her old phone to a friend saying she would rather die than have sex with me (Aug 2020). Her confession was end Sept 2020. I told her how I felt about that and I don’t believe she can ever fall in love with me again. I said we should try for 3-6 months with counselling and if the dial doesn’t move, we start divorce. She agreed. We hugged in bed at night, her instigating it and clinging on to me. And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. She’s scared, in a mental mess but it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


The truth shall set you free. 

This is going to sound a little esoteric but in a way she did die. The wife you thought you had and the wife you want - is dead.

The marriage you thought you had and and the marriage you want - is dead. 

What do we do when someone close to us dies? At first shock and horror. Disbelief. Maybe we even beg and plead with doctors to “do everything!” to try to save them or keep them alive through artificial means 
(Analogy - marriage counseling to “save the marriage” )

Then we mourn and cry and are sad. 

But in time we cry less and we realize their mortality. We give them a funeral and proper burial and then we begin clear out their stuff and pick up the pieces of our own life and move on to the business of living with them being gone. 

Several years ago I lost both my parents within two months of each other. It was hell. I was sad, scared, depressed, angry, exhausted - everything. 

I miss them in my life. But life is still good. They are gone, but I am still here and I am still moving forward. That’s how they wanted it.

But let me tell you something that is going to sound harsh and cold but is a reality that will apply to your situation as well - it sucked when they died and dealing with all that aftermath after they were gone.

But it was drops in the bucket compared to dealing with them dying. 

The great line from the book and movie of Stephen Kings book “Pet Sematary” is “Sometimes dead is better.”

You’ve been trying to resurrect a corpse. You’ve been trying to keep a flesh eating zombie alive and trying to restore it to life while at the same time trying to keep it from tearing off your flesh and eating your brain. 

Now you know the truth. Now you know it’s dead. 

Now you can stop trying to resuscitate and resurrect it and give it a proper burial and move on. Now it can’t rip your flesh and eat your brain.


----------



## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> I need to go slow to exactly have a plan; lawyer, sell house, find new place, stabilise kids


Those things you mention above are going to take time no matter what. 

But how you use that time and your agenda behind it matters. 

You mentioned doing several months of MC - why???????

Not a rhetorical question, what is your purpose and rationale behind the time and expense of MC?? 

To try to “save” the marriage?? This is like putting Grandma’s corpse on a ventilator and heart/lung bypass machinery. It gives false hope and prolongs the suffering of watching something dying and adds expense to the mounting bills piling up. 

Now each of you seeing your own IC to help deal with the pain and mourning etc of a divorce is fair and can have benefit. 

And I also think consulting some kind of professional on how best to consciously uncouple in a manner that will have the least impact on the kids is also very valid. 

But if you are thinking that you should try one last Hail Mary and one last ditch effort to try to save the marriage - just no. 

She has also told you to your face she cannot conjure up affectionate feelings for you and you discovered her confession that she would rather rot in a casket in the ground than have a love life with you. 

That is death of the marriage. 

Sure if you want to be a chump and a simp and beta provider to her, she will take your money and be a freeloader in your house. 

But a wife?? A lover?? Your special someone???

No. I am sorry but that person died a few years ago. 

The corpse in front of you may not be a flesh and brain eating zombie,,, but she is a soul-sucking and resource-sucking cheater that is in love with another man and is with you because she needs a roof over her head and food in her belly and she knows she can pull your heart strings like a puppet master and you will provide for her. 

Let the truth set you free. Then BE FREE!


----------



## Mrchiller

oldshirt said:


> The truth shall set you free.
> 
> This is going to sound a little esoteric but in a way she did die. The wife you thought you had and the wife you want - is dead.
> 
> The marriage you thought you had and and the marriage you want - is dead.
> 
> What do we do when someone close to us dies? At first shock and horror. Disbelief. Maybe we even beg and plead with doctors to “do everything!” to try to save them or keep them alive through artificial means
> (Analogy - marriage counseling to “save the marriage” )
> 
> Then we mourn and cry and are sad.
> 
> But in time we cry less and we realize their mortality. We give them a funeral and proper burial and then we begin clear out their stuff and pick up the pieces of our own life and move on to the business of living with them being gone.
> 
> Several years ago I lost both my parents within two months of each other. It was hell. I was sad, scared, depressed, angry, exhausted - everything.
> 
> I miss them in my life. But life is still good. They are gone, but I am still here and I am still moving forward. That’s how they wanted it.
> 
> But let me tell you something that is going to sound harsh and cold but is a reality that will apply to your situation as well - it sucked when they died and dealing with all that aftermath after they were gone.
> 
> But it was drops in the bucket compared to dealing with them dying.
> 
> The great line from the book and movie of Stephen Kings book “Pet Sematary” is “Sometimes dead is better.”
> 
> You’ve been trying to resurrect a corpse. You’ve been trying to keep a flesh eating zombie alive and trying to restore it to life while at the same time trying to keep it from tearing off your flesh and eating your brain.
> 
> Now you know the truth. Now you know it’s dead.
> 
> Now you can stop trying to resuscitate and resurrect it and give it a proper burial and move on. Now it can’t rip your flesh and eat your brain.


I’m so sorry to hear about your parents but reassured to hear your strength. I get the fact that my wife and marriage are dead but she’s not. She is the mother of my 3 children so come divorce, she will be in my life. I want to be in a place that I know WE tried to salvage it, so we end things on good terms. I know so many divorced couples who fight, are abusive and who suffers? The children. That’s not the role model parent I want to be. And I want them to know that their mum and dad tried everything in their powers to save the marriage. I guess deep down, I know we’re over. And you are right, it’s the same emotions as a death. But I have an added complication that I don’t know what was reality or fake the last 3 years. All those pictures. So my world isn’t what I thought it was. I’m trying to digest this in a world that is under a suffocating pandemic. It’s a tough one for me.


----------



## RandomDude

oldshirt said:


> To try to “save” the marriage?? *This is like putting Grandma’s corpse on a ventilator and heart/lung bypass machinery. It gives false hope and prolongs the suffering of watching something dying and adds expense to the mounting bills piling up. *
> 
> But if you are thinking that you should try one last Hail Mary and one last ditch effort to try to save the marriage - just no.
> She has also told you to your face *she cannot conjure up affectionate feelings for you *and you discovered her confession that s*he would rather rot in a casket in the ground than have a love life with you.
> 
> That is death of the marriage.*
> 
> Sure if you want to be a chump and a simp and beta provider to her, *she will take your money and be a freeloader in your house. *
> But a wife?? A lover?? Your special someone???
> No. I am sorry but *that person died a few years ago. *
> 
> The corpse in front of you may not be a flesh and brain eating zombie,,, but *she is a soul-sucking and resource-sucking cheater that is in love with another man and is with you because she needs a roof over her head and food in her belly and she knows she can pull your heart strings like a puppet master and you will provide for her.*


Pretty much 

Same old story


----------



## Mrchiller

oldshirt said:


> Those things you mention above are going to take time no matter what.
> 
> But how you use that time and your agenda behind it matters.
> 
> You mentioned doing several months of MC - why???????
> 
> Not a rhetorical question, what is your purpose and rationale behind the time and expense of MC??
> 
> To try to “save” the marriage?? This is like putting Grandma’s corpse on a ventilator and heart/lung bypass machinery. It gives false hope and prolongs the suffering of watching something dying and adds expense to the mounting bills piling up.
> 
> Now each of you seeing your own IC to help deal with the pain and mourning etc of a divorce is fair and can have benefit.
> 
> And I also think consulting some kind of professional on how best to consciously uncouple in a manner that will have the least impact on the kids is also very valid.
> 
> But if you are thinking that you should try one last Hail Mary and one last ditch effort to try to save the marriage - just no.
> 
> She has also told you to your face she cannot conjure up affectionate feelings for you and you discovered her confession that she would rather rot in a casket in the ground than have a love life with you.
> 
> That is death of the marriage.
> 
> Sure if you want to be a chump and a simp and beta provider to her, she will take your money and be a freeloader in your house.
> 
> But a wife?? A lover?? Your special someone???
> 
> No. I am sorry but that person died a few years ago.
> 
> The corpse in front of you may not be a flesh and brain eating zombie,,, but she is a soul-sucking and resource-sucking cheater that is in love with another man and is with you because she needs a roof over her head and food in her belly and she knows she can pull your heart strings like a puppet master and you will provide for her.
> 
> Let the truth set you free. Then BE FREE!


The MC was helpful to give us structure. She can give us guidance on a divorce plan. My head is all over the place, my wife’s is even worse home schooling 3 very challenging boys and dealing with this. Getting a divorce is one traumatising event, if there is a MC who can help us both, why wouldn’t we continue?


----------



## RandomDude

Mrchiller said:


> And I want them to know that their mum and dad tried everything in their powers to save the marriage.


Their mum destroyed your marriage, the marriage isn't yours to save.



> I guess deep down, I know we’re over. And you are right, it’s the same emotions as a death.


Bingo.



> But I have an added complication that I don’t know what was reality or fake the last 3 years. All those pictures. So my world isn’t what I thought it was. I’m trying to digest this in a world that is under a suffocating pandemic. It’s a tough one for me.


Yup, that's what you get when losing trust. You wont ever be able to figure out what was real or fake, only what you can do to help prevent being deceived in the future, what you can learn from this experience, which red flags to watch out for etc. You need to change your perspective.


----------



## jsmart

Mrchiller said:


> So last night my wife and I spoke. I found a text on her old phone to a friend saying she would rather die than have sex with me (Aug 2020). Her confession was end Sept 2020. I told her how I felt about that and I don’t believe she can ever fall in love with me again. I said we should try for 3-6 months with counselling and if the dial doesn’t move, we start divorce. She agreed. We hugged in bed at night, her instigating it and clinging on to me. And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. She’s scared, in a mental mess but it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


Wow, that had to cut you to the core.

So from that comment, I take it that not only did she stop being affectionate, she outright sexually cut you off? If so, how long were you in a sexless marriage? Was it the whole time she was with this guy?

It is very common for WWs to do that. They want to be faithful to their man. when she stopped having sex with you is when she emotionally went from it’s just sex affair to this is my man in her head.


----------



## Evinrude58

I disagree with waiting. You should file tomorrow. “I’d rather die than sleep with him.”
You’ll never forget that.
Start the divorce. What a horrible person your wife is. 
mans she is totally abusing you now just to keep her own sense of security. Even my dirty ass ex wife had the decency to divorce me rather than watch me suffer. I kicked her out, but she wanted the kick and I hated to give it.
Dude. File tomorrow. Don’t wait in getting happy again.


----------



## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> But I have an added complication that I don’t know what was reality or fake the last 3 years. All those pictures. So my world isn’t what I thought it was. I’m trying to digest this in a world that is under a suffocating pandemic.


Again, the truth shall set you free. 

You NOW know the reality today. 

She played you like a fiddle to keep the roof over her head and 24/7 access to the kids while she had fun with Muscle Man. 

You are not a marriage coroner and are under no obligation to perform an autopsy and determine cause of death or determine which moments were real and which moments were her play acting to keep you paying the bills and have you babysit while she got her azz slapped by some other dude’s nutsack. 

Not your circus, not your monkey.


----------



## oldshirt

Now to be frank, she was likely living a double life and cake eating.

Her strategy was likely to have you both. She got her security, provisioning, status in the community and creature comforts from you. 

And got her fun and passion and orgasms from him.

She probably never intended to leave you for him. She likely knew he was unobtainable and would have never taken her full time. She knew he wouldn’t stop banging other chicks.

And he certainly wasn’t as stable and reliable as a partner than you and would not have supported and nurtured the kids as you.

If she wanted to leave you, she would have long ago. But that wasn’t the intent or the plan. 

What she did was extract goods and services from you while she had fun with him. 

Her sexuality transferred over to him so the thought of sex with you repulsed her. But she very much wanted your loyalty, support and resources. 

Both you and OM were parts of her machine. It was a 3-legged chair that needed the 3 legs to stand. 

She clearly faked her love and fidelity to you. You know that without doubt now.

But her desire for your money, support, provisioning, security and child-rearing assistance was very much real. 

What question lays before you now, is whether you will continue to provide that support and provisioning now that you know her love, desire and fidelity are dead?


----------



## Mrchiller

jsmart said:


> Wow, that had to cut you to the core.
> 
> So from that comment, I take it that not only did she stop being affectionate, she outright sexually cut you off? If so, how long were you in a sexless marriage? Was it the whole time she was with this guy?
> 
> It is very common for WWs to do that. They want to be faithful to their man. when she stopped having sex with you is when she emotionally went from it’s just sex affair to this is my man in her head.


We carried on having sex. It was awful sex but there is context here in that when I was in depression, I didn’t care about sex, passion so I made it robotic. She was in her sex prime and I was heading fast towards suicide. When I came out of depression a year later, she began her affair. We continued to have robotic sex, she didn’t want to kiss me at all. I should have noticed but just was a complete naive idiot. We’ve had sex a few times since she confessed. It was pretty bad. She said I didn’t turn her on, pictured a beach as we had sex and I said I could only see a built PT [email protected] her. Kissing is bad too. Like kissing a wall. I see the light now. I see there is no hope. I guess I’m just terrified of the future and the impact for my kids. Thanks


----------



## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> So last night my wife and I spoke. I found a text on her old phone to a friend saying she would rather die than have sex with me (Aug 2020). Her confession was end Sept 2020. I told her how I felt about that and I don’t believe she can ever fall in love with me again. I said we should try for 3-6 months with counselling and if the dial doesn’t move, we start divorce. She agreed. We hugged in bed at night, her instigating it and clinging on to me. And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. She’s scared, in a mental mess but it’s clear there is no hope for us. You were all right.


Your wife says some really disgusting and hurtful things about you. She’s not only gutting you, she’s castrating you too. Your wife is a selfish b!tch. I could never treat a man I love that way. Ever.


----------



## TJW

Here's a look at the future :
*The BS after 3 years*



QuietRiot said:


> She’s not only gutting you, she’s castrating you too.


This is Cheater's Handbook, chapter 5. Cheaters use these statements to BLAME the BS for their affair.
The implication is "....see... that's why I cheated....."
100% malarkey.


----------



## Tron

Wow! That is some pretty messed up stuff going on in your bedroom, depression or no. 

3 years of her pretending you're not there while you just robotically **** her...Ugh! 

Even if she somehow comes back from this to have any feelings for you whatsoever, which is doubtful, why would you ever want to be with her again? So she can use you some more...

And are you sure muscle man is the only one she has been ****ing on the side? She sounds like a serial cheater to me.

Have a little self respect and let the ***** go.


----------



## jsmart

Your WW saying she wants to stay with you is for a few reasons. None of which are out of love for you. 

One of the big ones is the shame she will feel when she has to truly face that she destroyed her family and will cause irreversible damage to your boys. right now she is still to caught up in her feelings for her ex to really take it in.

Financial. She knows this will make the whole family poorer. Instead of one nice home for the family, there will be two residences that will pale very badly in comparison. The whole lifestyle will go down for the family.

Status. She is going from living in a home, married to the father of her 3 boys down to a divorcee with kids living in some apartment. Being used as some dudes free prostitute loses its appeal when the bills need to be paid.

WWs never think about these things while in the middle of the affair or even long after it ends but eventually the fog will dissipate and she will rue the day she met POS. Of course, she’s no way near that day. In head, she’s still in the “no one understands what we had.”mode.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> What question lays before you now, is whether you will continue to provide that support and provisioning now that you know her love, desire and fidelity are dead?


Let me clarify and put this in perspective.

When we men have faith in our woman’s love, sexual desire and fidelity, we will support and provide for them, take care of them when they’re sick, give them children and raise and provide for them.

We will cross deserts, climb mountains and cross raging rivers for them. We will jump in front of bullets and run into burning buildings for them. 

All things considered, we actually ask very little. We want someone that is pleasing to the eye, responsive to us sexually and and faithful to us.

But when that love, desire and fidelity isnt there.. or worse yet when they cheat - they just become another ho. What was once your queen, is now just trash in the street.


----------



## Harken Banks

Mrchiller, your thread is just depressing to read. You seem incredibly passive and half asleep. You can carry on that way, for sure. People do it. But I think you might be happier and healthier if you would just wake up. I don't think you need to adopt any machissmo or put on any bravado or study some alpha script or playbook. Just wake up. Somewhere in here you wrote as a sort of declaration that you need a wife as if that were something you deserved or were entitled to or should expect like it was somehow essential to your dignity and sense of self and your present wife was not up to the role. You don't need a wife. You have a wife and I think in this particular instance that is not at all what you need. You don't need to make declarations, whether about your determination to divorce or that you need a wife or otherwise. I think you will be happier and healthier if you forget the roles and play acting and going through of motions. That's my view of it. Walk the earth, man.


----------



## Gabriel

Mrchiller said:


> We’ve had sex a few times since she confessed. She said I didn’t turn her on, pictured a beach as we had sex and I said I could only see a built PT [email protected] her. Kissing is bad too. Like kissing a wall. I see the light now. I see there is no hope. I guess I’m just terrified of the future and the impact for my kids. Thanks


Did she say "you don't turn me on" as an answer to you asking her? Or did she just blurt it out? I mean, this is miserable. Why would you even want sex at this point? This is pity sex. It's gross.

Couples get divorced all the time, with kids. You don't "owe" your kids a college try at salvaging this. Your wife killed your marriage. 

Send this message to your kids instead: do not accept a spouse who cheats on you. do not accept a spouse that isn't in love with you.

That's a much more valuable lesson than "even after your mom treated me like a piece of dirt and rejected me, we tried to stay together for awhile".

Look, I know your head is spinning and your emotions are hard to control. I 100% understand. Hopefully our advice can work its way through to you anyway.


----------



## Evinrude58

What you describe with the sex and mind movies and kissing a wall...
That will get worse, not better. Maybe on her end when she sees you slipping away and may attempt hysterical bonding....
But as you wrap your head around the things she’s said and done which were so hurtful—- you’re gonna have trouble not despising her. 
File. You can stop it at any time. But the faster it’s done, the faster you can move on.
Until you start moving forward, you can’t begin getting over the pain.
Divorces are slow, especially with the stupid pandemic. You should get it going as quickly as possible.


----------



## farsidejunky

QuietRiot said:


> Your wife says some really disgusting and hurtful things about you. She’s not only gutting you, she’s castrating you too. Your wife is a selfish b!tch. I could never treat a man I love that way. Ever.


In fairness, at least she is being honest. While cruel, that honesty is providing the framework for the OP to make a legit decision.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## mickybill

"And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best."

You both know the outcome, but this will give her the feeling that "we tried".
You should take the time to do all the things needed for the divorce, don't wait until after the 90 days or whatever expires to start planning, do it now so you can file when the time is up. 
Divide up bank accounts and investemts, appraise the house and let a realtor know it will be in the market in 90 days. 

Do this in order to take control of the situation, it is empowering. She will string you along to save face with family and friends. If people ask you why you are divorcing telling them that she had a 2-3 year affair with her trainer.


----------



## QuietRiot

farsidejunky said:


> In fairness, at least she is being honest. While cruel, that honesty is providing the framework for the OP to make a legit decision.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


She didn’t tell him. She told her friend via text. She tells him she’s not in love with him but she wants to TRY her hardest. Mhm. She’s cruel and dishonest.


----------



## Gabriel

mickybill said:


> "And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best."
> 
> You both know the outcome, but this will give her the feeling that "we tried".
> You should take the time to do all the things needed for the divorce, don't wait until after the 90 days or whatever expires to start planning, do it now so you can file when the time is up.
> Divide up bank accounts and investemts, appraise the house and let a realtor know it will be in the market in 90 days.
> 
> Do this in order to take control of the situation, it is empowering. She will string you along to save face with family and friends. If people ask you why you are divorcing telling them that she had a 2-3 year affair with her trainer.


This. 100% This.

This puts you in control of the situation. You think you are doing right by your kids, but in reality you are only helping her out ......and she doesn't deserve that.


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## Evinrude58

After what she’s done, having him go through this “we tried” bs while she gets her ducks in a row to leave, while she has sex with him and tells him she’s thinking of the beach, while she says she still is in love with the AP, while enjoying the fruits of his labor.......
Can’t get much more cruel. This woman is about as selfish as a person can get.
If OP continues to allow this, she will spend her free time finding a way to communicate and see her AP if he will allow it.... no doubt he’s got other skirts he’s probably more interested in. .... and as soon as she’s over the AP or before, she will start looking for a new man. Likely will go for one that might help support her. 
she’s 100% out for herself.

what’s really bad is that she doesn’t even have an AP anymore, and isn’t wanting out that badly. So she will give him hell in a divorce.

I take back what I says about fast tracking the divorce. OP, you should leverage your agreement to stay in the marriage for a while with trying to get a post-nup signed. If she is unwilling to do that, you know she’s just there for the free ride. 
Sadly, you are still in love with your wife and seem to have morals, so you probably are unwilling to be deceitful and use your wife’s own horrid choices against her. So you will go forth with the divorce like a lamb before the slaughter, and give her everything she asks for in the divorce, no matter how unfair.


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## PreRaph

Mrchiller said:


> And she kept saying let’s be positive and try our best. .


What the hell does that mean? The marriage is over. The longer you keep on with this, even with counseling, the worse it's going to be for you. Harken Banks wrote a great post and I would recommend it 100%. You seem so submissive to her in this whole process it's just maddening and depressing. 



Harken Banks said:


> Mrchiller, your thread is just depressing to read. You seem incredibly passive and half asleep. You can carry on that way, for sure. People do it. But I think you might be happier and healthier if you would just wake up. I don't think you need to adopt any machissmo or put on any bravado or study some alpha script or playbook. Just wake up. Somewhere in here you wrote as a sort of declaration that you need a wife as if that were something you deserved or were entitled to or should expect like it was somehow essential to your dignity and sense of self and your present wife was not up to the role. You don't need a wife. You have a wife and I think in this particular instance that is not at all what you need. You don't need to make declarations, whether about your determination to divorce or that you need a wife or otherwise. I think you will be happier and healthier if you forget the roles and play acting and going through of motions. That's my view of it. Walk the earth, man.


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## jsmart

trying for 90 days is just giving her time to change the narrative to the divorce being caused because you were no longer compatible or we grew apart instead of it being because she betrayed you and the family to be some POS’ free prostitute. 

File for D without warning her. Get the house listed. Divide the finances. Move her out of the master bedroom and start the 180. Let this become real because it is. She has not faced any real consequences for her betrayal , so that leaves her to pine away for POS.

The divorce process takes a long time time. If she get her head out of her ass and truly fights for you then you can re access but if not the faster you get her out of your life the better. Let your boys see how a strong man reacts to such a betrayal. Trust me they will eventually know why their family blew apart. They will respect you as a man . Unfortunately it will be the opposite for your wife. She will be the kind of woman they want to avoid. Btw, tell her that. Here you are pining away for this POS and our family is about to be destroyed.

You need to become angry. Trust me. I have read so many threads on TAM and similar sites. The nice , kind, and respectable husbands get **** on by their WWs. The BHs who go shock and awe without mercy are the ones who have WWs pulling out all the stops to save the marriage. not that I think anyone who’s WW had such a long LTR should be considered R material, but that’s for the BH to decide.


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## Evinrude58

She has a **** buddy for 2.5 yrs and likes him more than you, and you should give her “90 days” to see if HER feelings return? Because that’s how her thoughts are— she’s not worried about whether YOUR feelings return because she feels she has you wrapped around her finger.
It’s really despicable. This thread irks me.


----------



## OddOne

Evinrude58 said:


> This thread irks me.


Same. 

Right now, I've pretty much no confidence in the OP that he will ever pull the proverbial divorce trigger. He really comes across as someone who would do a humiliating dance in some degrading outfit for scraps of what he'll choose to believe are genuine feelings from his WW. I.e., as weak and desperate. 

And even if they do divorce, most likely at his WW's instigation when she has secured a better, in her mind option (a man she lusts for who is financially secure and good with kids), and when the kids are older, OP will probably go out of his way to accommodate his ex-WW. If she wants him to rub her feet as she complains about the dates she's had in the past week, etc., he will. Why? Because that will mean they are bonding and make her want him again.


----------



## Mrchiller

OddOne said:


> Same.
> 
> Right now, I've pretty much no confidence in the OP that he will ever pull the proverbial divorce trigger. He really comes across as someone who would do a humiliating dance in some degrading outfit for scraps of what he'll choose to believe are genuine feelings from his WW. I.e., as weak and desperate.
> 
> And even if they do divorce, most likely at his WW's instigation when she has secured a better, in her mind option (a man she lusts for who is financially secure and good with kids), and when the kids are older, OP will probably go out of his way to accommodate his ex-WW. If she wants him to rub her feet as she complains about the dates she's had in the past week, etc., he will. Why? Because that will mean they are bonding and make her want him again.


What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mrchiller said:


> So it was on and off for 2.5 years. Lots of arguing. The guy was controlling almost narcissistic. She tried many times to get out. She went for counselling on her own. Her friends threw her under a bus when she asked for help that she wanted out, they said keep having fun. She joined Facebook groups for help. There is a lot more context here.
> The consequences of her actions were she was totally cut off by her family for a good month. That killed her. I told her to have a sti test before she could touch me (like hug). I made her feel like dirt. She put the find a phone on her phone without me asking, so I can see where she is. Her actions are genuine.


Did you run data recovery on her phone? Have you told her she can no longer remain friends with the slutz that encouraged her cheating? I would out them to their hubbys, especially if they go to same gym. They need to get their radar up.


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## Divinely Favored

Mrchiller said:


> She’s broken ties with them. One of the friends is divorced and was flirting with me last year. I couldn’t understand why, but it appears she wanted to get me divorced and then provide a shoulder to cry on.


Tell their husbands!!!!


----------



## jin

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


It's certainly a traumatic thing to go through. Divorce and breaking of the family unit is right up there when it comes to trauma. But you will work through it and be ok. 

I recommend some heavy exercise to help with sleep. There are plenty of calisthenics workouts you can do at home have a look on YouTube.


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## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


Contact your doctor.


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## jsmart

Intense workouts will help with your emotional state of mind and will help exhaust your body. Make sure your eating a healthy foods. Stay away from liquor. 
If all of this fails, call your doctor. They can prescribe a sleep side to get you through on a short term basis.


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## Evinrude58

Zoloft helped me for a couple of months with the anxiety. I didn’t eat for two months and lost 30 lbs. This stuff is rough. No relief from it. When I filed and papers were signed, it was super painful. But until that day, I made zero progress and it was a life of misery. Don’t be afraid to put her behind you. Better things really do await you.


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## oldshirt

jin said:


> I recommend some heavy exercise to help with sleep. There are plenty of calisthenics workouts you can do at home have a look on YouTube.


This^^^

Lifting heavy things is the cheapest, most effective and bestest therapy there is and the feel-good hormones released from heavy exercise are the most effective anti depressant, anti anxiety and sleep inducing medication in existence. 

You’ll feel better, you’ll look better and you will become more confident and courageous.


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## Torninhalf

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


Please forgive me for my intrusion but your story breaks my heart. Is she still cheating? Actively cheating now?


----------



## oldshirt

“Strong people are hard to kill”

- Mark Ripptoe


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## Gabriel

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


Read up on the 180. It's what you need for your own mental health right now. You need to detach. The 180 helps you do that. And it builds strength.

Definitely work out vigorously. Melatonin works for sleep. Or even Advil PM


----------



## Harken Banks

Take care of yourself, Mrchiller.


----------



## Mrchiller

Torninhalf said:


> Please forgive me for my intrusion but your story breaks my heart. Is she still cheating? Actively cheating now?


No, she’s not. I know that for sure because we’ve been home 24/7 the last 2 months because of pandemic lockdown and when she’s out, one of the kids goes with her. She has also out the “find my phone” on, so I can see where she is (she did this without me asking). Of course she could be messaging her AP but she has on many occasions given me her phone if I wanted to check messages.


----------



## Torninhalf

Mrchiller said:


> No, she’s not. I know that for sure because we’ve been home 24/7 the last 2 months because of pandemic lockdown and when she’s out, one of the kids goes with her. She has also out the “find my phone” on, so I can see where she is (she did this without me asking). Of course she could be messaging her AP but she has on many occasions given me her phone if I wanted to check messages.


I hope you are right. I know from my experience that completely cutting out the affair partner especially after 2 years is difficult. No longer getting the “high” is withdrawal for them. My husband chatted with his AP through words with friends once he realized I was monitoring his phone texts and calls. I hope for your sake something like that is not going on.


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## Evinrude58

In truth, if she’s not contacting him it’s because he moved on and dumped her. She still admits she’s in live with him. Where there’s a will there’s a way.


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## Diana7

gaius said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR


You dont seem to understand what depression is. You cant just click your fingers and get yourself out of it. Its an illness.
There is no excuse for what she did, none.


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## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


I understand completely my friend. I found out my first d-day when the lockdown was in full swing. I puked and couldn’t eat anything for weeks. I lived off broth. I had panic attacks, I felt like my heart was going to stop beating from hurting so much. It hurts and it hurts like a mother-effer. I started eating baked potatoes and other soft foods when I could tolerate it. I did, and still do breathing exercises when I feel anxiety and panic creeping up and over a few months from d-day 2, the panic began to subside. 

I was and am also forced to cohabitate due to an extreme never seen before housing shortage in my state, but what did help is putting huge boundaries between us so that I could get to a place of limited peace. Enough to function. Enough to eat, enough to sleep. It isn’t perfect but it helps, and he has for all his issues and faults been amiable enough to honor those boundaries until I can move out.

If you need sleeping medication, get some. If you need Xanax, get some. If you have to eat nothing but smoothies for a week, do it. It’s survival mode. And I don’t think ANY decisions about reconciliations can be made in survival mode. If it is at all possible, please try to put some physical and emotional distance between your wife and yourself so that you get get to a place where you can function and eat and sleep. If she cares about you AT ALL she will be kind enough to be ok with that.


----------



## bobert

So, sometimes it's a good idea to give the marriage x amount of months and if things don't change or improve enough, call it quits. At this point, that's for you though... not for your wife to suddenly decide you are now ****able, the love of her life, etc. She should be begging you to stay with her, not pining away for her AP and being repulsed by you. It's also REALLY hard to determine what is enough of a change in those months.

My wife did have an "end date" in her mind (2 years from D-Day) but that was still more for me than her. She wanted to be with me, but if we were still "stuck" at that point that was kind of her "set him free because he won't do it himself" date. 

For you, I think your wife hasn't had her wake-up call yet. I was a huge asshole and I don't know if that helped me or not, and I don't recommend it, but being the nice guy and letting her walk all over you won't help. I KNOW it's hard. I've been there and I wouldn't wish it on... most people. 

Like others have said, you can always change directions if your wife ends up being a good candidate for reconciliation. 

I'd strongly suggest looking up the 180 and start implementing it asap. If your wife is still in the master bedroom with you, get her out. You don't need her lying beside you and being a reminder. It also means no more sex (and you don't want to chance getting her pregnant). 

Your reaction to sex is completely normal, btw. 7.5 months after D-Day I decided it was time and I honestly had to force myself to do it, hated every minute of it, and felt like I was taking one for the team. It can get better, but it does take a lot of time and work from both spouses. 

Doing the 180 won't cure what you're experiencing but it will help. I'd also suggest calling your doctor and talking about what is going on. You may benefit from going back on medication or adding an additional med. There is no shame in that. 

As for wanting to try for yourself or the kids... Part of the reason I stayed (at first) was because I wanted to be able to tell myself and my kids that I tried. To be honest, I'm not sure when "enough is enough". I decided to reconcile 22 months ago. Is that long enough for me to put my hands up and say "I tried, but I'm done"? Honestly, I think that feeling would STILL be there. I don't think it would go anywhere until/if my wife did something like cheat again. I think I would STILL have the "well, what if I would have stayed longer, tried this or that" thoughts. 

Look up the 180, start doing it, call your doctor and accept help, find a therapist and accept help. Take time for yourself, distract yourself with the kids. Things will get better but for now you have to ride this out and do what you can to stay afloat.


----------



## re16

Right now, you are still getting run over by this situation. You need to turn this around and start running the show. Choose not to waste another day being weak or letting someone else effect your life in this way.

It isn't uncommon for someone's initial response to cheating to be a predetermined notion that you can fix it. You came on here with that notion.

The up and down emotions of thinking it's over and thinking it's salvageable mean you haven't fully given up on that idea that you can fix it. It never works for those who try to apply a blanket forgiveness to a situation that they don't even have the full details about, and trust me, there is a lot you don't know. You can't forgive what you don't know.

You are starting to get on the right path to realizing the damage she has done, but I think you need to do more work to have the ammo you need to get through those moments when you flip flop into thinking maybe it can work.

(The odd part is, that if you really wanted to fix this, the steps would be the same).

You need to stand up for yourself. Start the divorce process and tell her that she will have to change your mind by her actions.

It's time to get angry. This person hurt you and is hurting your kids and she needs to have consequences. Set a positive example for your kids that they should never let someone treat them unjustly and that bad behavior has consequences.

Have her give you a timeline of the affair, tell her that any chance of reconciliation ends if you find any lies in the timeline at any point going forward. Assume there is no chance of it working.

Verify the timeline against a thorough review of her phone / email.

Call the affair guy, ask him questions and give him a piece of your mind.

Call her friends and talk to them. Call their husbands.

Discuss this in detail with her family.

This will be painful for her and eye opening for you. This will give you the fuel you need to get through the times when you question if it can still work. It will end your marriage officially (in case you don't know it, she ended it long ago).

Then you are free to go out in the world and find love.... which will happen, even though it seems like a scary thing to think about now.

The only times I've seen reconciliation work on this site were when someone did all of the above and then started over. I don't think you should reconcile, but you should follow the process above. If you did ever consider reconciliation, it should only be after the above. It is very likely that when the consequences hit her, that you'll see the true person, and she won't be willing to do whatever it takes to keep you.


----------



## Mrchiller

bobert said:


> So, sometimes it's a good idea to give the marriage x amount of months and if things don't change or improve enough, call it quits. At this point, that's for you though... not for your wife to suddenly decide you are now ****able, the love of her life, etc. She should be begging you to stay with her, not pining away for her AP and being repulsed by you. It's also REALLY hard to determine what is enough of a change in those months.
> 
> My wife did have an "end date" in her mind (2 years from D-Day) but that was still more for me than her. She wanted to be with me, but if we were still "stuck" at that point that was kind of her "set him free because he won't do it himself" date.
> 
> For you, I think your wife hasn't had her wake-up call yet. I was a huge asshole and I don't know if that helped me or not, and I don't recommend it, but being the nice guy and letting her walk all over you won't help. I KNOW it's hard. I've been there and I wouldn't wish it on... most people.
> 
> Like others have said, you can always change directions if your wife ends up being a good candidate for reconciliation.
> 
> I'd strongly suggest looking up the 180 and start implementing it asap. If your wife is still in the master bedroom with you, get her out. You don't need her lying beside you and being a reminder. It also means no more sex (and you don't want to chance getting her pregnant).
> 
> Your reaction to sex is completely normal, btw. 7.5 months after D-Day I decided it was time and I honestly had to force myself to do it, hated every minute of it, and felt like I was taking one for the team. It can get better, but it does take a lot of time and work from both spouses.
> 
> Doing the 180 won't cure what you're experiencing but it will help. I'd also suggest calling your doctor and talking about what is going on. You may benefit from going back on medication or adding an additional med. There is no shame in that.
> 
> As for wanting to try for yourself or the kids... Part of the reason I stayed (at first) was because I wanted to be able to tell myself and my kids that I tried. To be honest, I'm not sure when "enough is enough". I decided to reconcile 22 months ago. Is that long enough for me to put my hands up and say "I tried, but I'm done"? Honestly, I think that feeling would STILL be there. I don't think it would go anywhere until/if my wife did something like cheat again. I think I would STILL have the "well, what if I would have stayed longer, tried this or that" thoughts.
> 
> Look up the 180, start doing it, call your doctor and accept help, find a therapist and accept help. Take time for yourself, distract yourself with the kids. Things will get better but for now you have to ride this out and do what you can to stay afloat.


That’s really helpful advice, thank you. I spoke to the doctor today and she’s going to prescribe me anti depressants. They take a while to kick in but I think I need to stabilise my mental state. 
I also spoke to my wife openly today. Divorce in the UK takes 6 months but with pandemic 9 months apparently. Any advice on when to break the news to the kids? Obviously once we have a plan but closer to the divorce or earlier eg when we put house for sale and start looking for 2 homes? I’d like to stay amicable for the sake of the kids. Any tips? Also I’ll check out the 180.


----------



## Mrchiller

re16 said:


> Right now, you are still getting run over by this situation. You need to turn this around and start running the show. Choose not to waste another day being weak or letting someone else effect your life in this way.
> 
> It isn't uncommon for someone's initial response to cheating to be a predetermined notion that you can fix it. You came on here with that notion.
> 
> The up and down emotions of thinking it's over and thinking it's salvageable mean you haven't fully given up on that idea that you can fix it. It never works for those who try to apply a blanket forgiveness to a situation that they don't even have the full details about, and trust me, there is a lot you don't know. You can't forgive what you don't know.
> 
> You are starting to get on the right path to realizing the damage she has done, but I think you need to do more work to have the ammo you need to get through those moments when you flip flop into thinking maybe it can work.
> 
> (The odd part is, that if you really wanted to fix this, the steps would be the same).
> 
> You need to stand up for yourself. Start the divorce process and tell her that she will have to change your mind by her actions.
> 
> It's time to get angry. This person hurt you and is hurting your kids and she needs to have consequences. Set a positive example for your kids that they should never let someone treat them unjustly and that bad behavior has consequences.
> 
> Have her give you a timeline of the affair, tell her that any chance of reconciliation ends if you find any lies in the timeline at any point going forward. Assume there is no chance of it working.
> 
> Verify the timeline against a thorough review of her phone / email.
> 
> Call the affair guy, ask him questions and give him a piece of your mind.
> 
> Call her friends and talk to them. Call their husbands.
> 
> Discuss this in detail with her family.
> 
> This will be painful for her and eye opening for you. This will give you the fuel you need to get through the times when you question if it can still work. It will end your marriage officially (in case you don't know it, she ended it long ago).
> 
> Then you are free to go out in the world and find love.... which will happen, even though it seems like a scary thing to think about now.
> 
> The only times I've seen reconciliation work on this site were when someone did all of the above and then started over. I don't think you should reconcile, but you should follow the process above. If you did ever consider reconciliation, it should only be after the above. It is very likely that when the consequences hit her, that you'll see the true person, and she won't be willing to do whatever it takes to keep you.


Thanks for this. So just to be clear I was angry and did most of these things when she confessed. Apart from contacting the AP. He’s a headcase so no point waking up a scum of a lunatic. I’ve come to realise in the space of 4 days from this thread, that it’s over. I was kidding myself. I just need time to digest and get myself in a stable mental state.


----------



## re16

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for this. So just to be clear I was angry and did most of these things when she confessed. Apart from contacting the AP. He’s a headcase so no point waking up a scum of a lunatic. I’ve come to realise in the space of 4 days from this thread, that it’s over. I was kidding myself. I just need time to digest and get myself in a stable mental state.


Sounds like you are on the right track. Watch out for reversion when she love bombs you.... there will likely be a period of her throwing herself at you when she realizes you are taking forward steps on the divorce.

Best of luck to you, you were really given a **** sandwich here...I hope life improves soon.


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> That’s really helpful advice, thank you. I spoke to the doctor today and she’s going to prescribe me anti depressants. They take a while to kick in but I think I need to stabilise my mental state.
> I also spoke to my wife openly today. Divorce in the UK takes 6 months but with pandemic 9 months apparently. Any advice on when to break the news to the kids? Obviously once we have a plan but closer to the divorce or earlier eg when we put house for sale and start looking for 2 homes? I’d like to stay amicable for the sake of the kids. Any tips? Also I’ll check out the 180.


I'm glad you spoke to your doctor. 

There are going to be a lot of different opinions on what to tell the kids and when to tell them. I would suggest talking to a children's therapist/psychologist first to get their opinion, and have therapists lined up for your kids as well. Your kids should each have their own therapist instead of a shared one. It's more ethical and it will let your kids feel safer to be open.

I had a 10, 8, and 2 year old when I was trying to decide what to do. My opinion is to be honest with your kids that mom and dad are having a hard time AND why. Their world is about to be turned upside down and they need to know that they can trust and rely on you. Regardless of how good of a job you think you are doing at hiding things, they are aware that _something _is wrong. They will fill in the gaps if they have to. 

I wouldn't come right out and use the word "divorce" yet because it's still very earlier and honestly, you could change your mind tomorrow, then back again... and again, and again, and again. I told my kids that we were divorcing (while I was emotional), we didn't, and I regret doing that. To be clear, I don't regret telling my kids the truth at all. I regret having those conversations while I was an emotional, irrational mess. 

I wrote this on another thread several months ago but it applies here and there is other good advice in that thread as well. Divorce is coming and I don’t know what to do


----------



## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


Mrchiller, I'm so sorry to hear this, it must be torture being trapped with her. Don't apologize for your sadness, you're a loving, loyal, considerate man who was stabbed in the heart by the person who vowed love and loyalty. Every one of us who has been betrayed has been in your shoes, some of us lingered hoping for things to change, so no need to feel ashamed or defensive. We understand your pain all too well and our only concern is you, no-one GAF about your wife, her actions caused this mess.

With that said, it's been several months since DD, it's unsustainable to live with those symptoms long-term. Please ask your doctor now for help, I think some self-care is in order. Put on your oxygen mask first, before you worry about the kids. I'm not sure how draconic the lockdowns are over there, but can you go to the park alone sometimes?

What helped me was guided talk downs from the Honest Guys (a free youtube channel), they have all kinds, for anxiety, depression, sleep, and loads of calming music and natural sounds. I kept my eating simple, the same stuff they recommend for nausea, the BRAT diet (Bread, rice, applesauce, and toast), protein/fruit smoothies, light vegetable soup, etc until I could manage more.

You will be ok, just get a grip now before you begin a downward spiral into depression again. If your wife genuinely cares for you, regardless of what happens, she will back off, focus on the kids and allow you to heal without pressuring you to resurrect what she murdered.


Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for this. So just to be clear I was angry and did most of these things when she confessed. Apart from contacting the AP. He’s a headcase so no point waking up a scum of a lunatic. I’ve come to realise in the space of 4 days from this thread, that it’s over. I was kidding myself. I just need time to digest and get myself in a stable mental state.


You are waking up! Look, even if you do end up wanting to reconcile after, don't focus on that now, put yourself first! How can you know what you want while you're still grieving for the life you thought you had? Take your time, get stronger physically and mentally and do what's good for you.

I get it, your priority was your family, it still is. It's only that the composition of your family may change, depending on what you decide. You have all the cards here, it's time to upset the apple cart, my friend.


----------



## shortbus

I'm glad for you that you've chosen a path forward.
You will start to heal from this point.
Best of luck to you.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mrchiller said:


> Yes spot on but she trained with him in the park every day when allowed (restrictions lifted)


So he was doing her real regularly.


----------



## Divinely Favored

hamadryad said:


> While I have no way to know, someone who was that invested likely sought out counsel, not to save marriage per se, but to process the loss of the affair/ affair partner...
> 
> Just a hunch here, but I would bet money that was the case....I dunno...just be careful about giving her props for this(seeing a counselor)...Its very possible that you and your concerns weren't part of any of it..


My sister tried to OD when her 2.5 yr OM dropped her.


----------



## Marc878

For your future. Strength (mental) is attractive. Weakness is not.

Don’t lie to your kids. The truth should be sanitized. Mommy had a boyfriend so we can’t be married anymore.

They aren’t stupid so don’t keep them in the dark. You don’t want them getting blindsided by taking the easy passive way out.


----------



## Livvie

gaius said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR


Holy ****!!! You are actually shaming the OP and calling him entitled for being depressed??

Holy ****.


----------



## TJW

After about 6 weeks of having my head in a daze, and hysterical bonding, I poured myself into my work. I had one client ready to cancel his order, because I wasn't getting it done. Returning to heavily concentrating on work was the "ticket". Another month saw me return to my usual faculties.



TXTrini said:


> your priority was your family, it still is.


I kept my family on top of my "list". I got back (after a brief hiatus) to earning a living. I spent time with the boys. Even WW's basic welfare (her need for medical care, shelter, food) remained top priority. However, her position was no longer that of "wife". She was my boys' mother, but I allowed her NO CONTROL over me, what I did, when I did it, or what her opinion was, I just didn't give a damn.

SHE chose this horse, not me..... I let it be her horse to ride.


----------



## Marc878

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for this. So just to be clear I was angry and did most of these things when she confessed. Apart from contacting the AP. He’s a headcase so no point waking up a scum of a lunatic. I’ve come to realise in the space of 4 days from this thread, that it’s over. I was kidding myself. I just need time to digest and get myself in a stable mental state.


Many upfront will grasp at any hope no matter how small. Any encouragement not to make a decision. All that does is keep you in limbo longer. Self inflicted limbo.

Nice strong post on your part.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Mrchiller said:


> What am going through mentally and emotionally is traumatising. Getting 2-3 hours sleep a night the last 3 months. I am a wreck. I do need to pull it together but I am 24/7 in a house with my cheating wife and 3 kids locked down from a lethal pandemic. So sure I am weak now for all the reasons you state, I am grieving, I am in shock, I am scared. But I will get through it for exactly the reasons you state. My kids. They need to see the strong man and role model. Just can’t get there over night. Does anyone have any recommendations on getting sleep? Mental cleansing? I’ve tried breathing exercises, medicated sleeping pills and all kinds of herbal stuff. Nothing. I need to get sleep to get my mind back and then start divorce rationally. Not the wreck mode that I am now.


Meletonin and Benadryl


----------



## Mrchiller

Evinrude58 said:


> In truth, if she’s not contacting him it’s because he moved on and dumped her. She still admits she’s in live with him. Where there’s a will there’s a way.


She’s not contacting him because she has worked out that there is no future together. It wouldn’t work. That’s not the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with. Now he may have banged her brains to incredible orgasm but she’s realised it was an artificial life. One bang a week and he wouldn’t cuddle her after, went off to check his 6 pack. Makes me feel sick but in a much better place mentally today.


----------



## Mrchiller

Marc878 said:


> For your future. Strength (mental) is attractive. Weakness is not.
> 
> Don’t lie to your kids. The truth should be sanitized. Mommy had a boyfriend so we can’t be married anymore.
> 
> They aren’t stupid so don’t keep them in the dark. You don’t want them getting blindsided by taking the easy passive way out.


I don’t agree with this. 11,9 and 5 year old boys won’t understand that. Maybe later in life, not now.


----------



## Mrchiller

Divinely Favored said:


> So he was doing her real regularly.


No. Once a month.


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> I don’t agree with this. 11,9 and 5 year old boys won’t understand that. Maybe later in life, not now.


Trust me, they understand a heck of a lot more than given credit for. 


Mrchiller said:


> No. Once a month.


She was seeing him daily but only sleeping with him once a month? That seems believable


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> One bang a week





Mrchiller said:


> No. Once a month.


So which is it?


----------



## Mrchiller

Marc878 said:


> Many upfront will grasp at any hope no matter how small. Any encouragement not to make a decision. All that does is keep you in limbo longer. Self inflicted limbo.
> 
> Nice strong post on your part.


Thanks. Feeling a lot stronger mentally even after only 3 hours sleep.


----------



## Mrchiller

bobert said:


> Trust me, they understand a heck of a lot more than given credit for.
> 
> She was seeing him daily but only sleeping with him once a month? That seems believable


She was training in an open public park with him and other people daily and for a few hours. Her affair was an emotional one not a sexual one.


----------



## bobert

Mrchiller said:


> She was training in an open public park with him and other people daily and for a few hours. Her affair was an emotional one not a sexual one.


Dude... She was having sex with him and having (your words) "incredible orgasms" when he banged her brains out. How is that not a sexual affair?

How was she getting to the park? How was he? Sex and blowjobs in cars between AP's seems to be all the rage.


----------



## AttaBoy

Mrchiller said:


> *She’s not contacting him because she has worked out that there is no future together. It wouldn’t work. That’s not the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with.* Now he may have banged her brains to incredible orgasm but *she’s realised it was an artificial life.* One bang a week and *he wouldn’t cuddle her after, went off to check his 6 pack.* Makes me feel sick but in a much better place mentally today.


I know this is incredibly hard. You are still trusting information from a lying, deceitful cheater. You need to stop doing this. One post you seem to be getting your bearings and then you are back to this. Unless you recover the communications, get a detailed timeline, and polygraph against it, you are taking at her word the last person in the world you should trust to be honest with you on the subject of what she did and how she felt about it. Knowledge is power! Blind faith is submission!
Seems like you are still trying to see the affair as a cork bobbing on the surface instead of the iceberg it is.
I went back and read your first thread from several months ago and based on the whole of what you have shared I am convinced the likelihood of this being her only transgression is very slim.


----------



## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> Now he may have banged her brains to incredible orgasm but she’s realised it was an artificial life.


That's the fact that made MY marriage "artificial". I have to now support this woman financially, emotionally, family, extended family, with absolutely NO ****ING REWARD whatsoever, pretty much a piece of used chewing gum....while I am a "plan B"......

To hell with that..... I did it for the sake of my boys..... she got supported in the process, pretty much like a hired nanny.


----------



## Gabriel

I feel that it's not our jobs to tell Mr. Chiller what to say to his kids. They are young. We don't know anything about them or their ability to handle that type of information.

Outing mom for banging her trainer should be tabled for a bit. I mean, Chiller played his part in the marriage failing as well (no excuse for her cheating, but still a part in the marriage death, which IMHO happened before the affair). Chiller gains nothing from demonizing their mother to them. 

Over time, the kids will pick up on things. Their antennae will be up, huge, once they know mom and dad are divorcing. They will seek answers by reading cues, listening to every word, asking grandma and grandpa, or auntie. At some point, they'll learn mommy had a boyfriend.

*Here's a painful lesson.....good friends of mine were in the same situation. Wife cheated. Husband ended the marriage. The result? Their daughter has cut THEIR FATHER out of her life. She has sided with mom. Guessing this was because dad threw too much shade on her.*


----------



## Mr.Married

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for this. So just to be clear I was angry and did most of these things when she confessed. Apart from contacting the AP. He’s a headcase so no point waking up a scum of a lunatic. I’ve come to realise in the space of 4 days from this thread, that it’s over. I was kidding myself. I just need time to digest and get myself in a stable mental state.


I’m usually pretty hard on people that won’t wake up to reality and perpetuate their own misery in life and with their partner.
While your off balance right now I think you need to give yourself some credit for waking up to your reality in only 4 days and reading some advice here.

While things are tough you should recognize your accomplishments as well.


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> I don’t agree with this. 11,9 and 5 year old boys won’t understand that. Maybe later in life, not now.


This is what makes me SO mad. Its one thing to risk loosing your spouse when you cheat, but to so selfishly ignore what this will do to the children is just appalling.
I do think that the older two will understand about 'mummy's boyfriend', maybe not the 5 year old though. I do think they will want a reason as to why the marriage is ending, otherwise they are more likely to blame themslves.


----------



## Evinrude58

OP, you are feeling as if you’re solid on knowing the truth, but nobody can be with a woman who cheated and lied for 3 years. She has likely had other affairs.
Her having an epiphany about how this guy used her and she has no future with him—— that’s just wrong. Dude, she KNEW that the WHOLE 2.5 yrs. Didn’t stop her then, did it?
She is a person ruled by her desires, and he is that object of her desire.

Don’t waste time on this monster that you could be spending with a woman that lives you and makes YOUR toes curl at night.
Just let her go and move forward. Don’t think about it, just turn it over to an attorney and let them take care of it. Gray rock her and get her out of your head.

You’re harming yourself interacting with her.


----------



## jsmart

Wow, she was out freaking another man when she had a 2 year old at home? What a great mom. 

I would bet my next mortgage payment that she has been emotionally absent from not just you but the kids. WWs really become obsessed with their OM. 

after reading your other thread I’m extra mad for you. You have been suffering for a long time. To have you thinking you the reason the sex was off was because of some past abuse you did is so typical. I believe this may not have been her first affair. Wouldn’t surprise me if the disconnect from years prior was not caused by her detaching from you because she latched on to someone else.


----------



## TXTrini

Gabriel said:


> *Here's a painful lesson.....good friends of mine were in the same situation. Wife cheated. Husband ended the marriage. The result? Their daughter has cut THEIR FATHER out of her life. She has sided with mom. Guessing this was because dad threw too much shade on her.*


My bf is dealing with this. His daughter was 8 and son was 5 at the time of the affair. His son still sees him, but his daughter stopped after she turned 18 and is radio silent. He didn't even "throw shade", he was waiting for them to ask. 

Do you mind if I PM you?


----------



## Mrchiller

Gabriel said:


> I feel that it's not our jobs to tell Mr. Chiller what to say to his kids. They are young. We don't know anything about them or their ability to handle that type of information.
> 
> Outing mom for banging her trainer should be tabled for a bit. I mean, Chiller played his part in the marriage failing as well (no excuse for her cheating, but still a part in the marriage death, which IMHO happened before the affair). Chiller gains nothing from demonizing their mother to them.
> 
> Over time, the kids will pick up on things. Their antennae will be up, huge, once they know mom and dad are divorcing. They will seek answers by reading cues, listening to every word, asking grandma and grandpa, or auntie. At some point, they'll learn mommy had a boyfriend.
> 
> *Here's a painful lesson.....good friends of mine were in the same situation. Wife cheated. Husband ended the marriage. The result? Their daughter has cut THEIR FATHER out of her life. She has sided with mom. Guessing this was because dad threw too much shade on her.*


Wise words here, thanks. This is what I am trying to avoid ... putting the kids in the middle of a bloodbath and then losing them because I went overboard. For sure I had a part to play in the marriage breaking. That doesn’t justify what she did, I get that now.


----------



## Gabriel

TXTrini said:


> My bf is dealing with this. His daughter was 8 and son was 5 at the time of the affair. His son still sees him, but his daughter stopped after she turned 18 and is radio silent. He didn't even "throw shade", he was waiting for them to ask.
> 
> Do you mind if I PM you?


 Go ahead


----------



## Mrchiller

jsmart said:


> Wow, she was out freaking another man when she had a 2 year old at home? What a great mom.
> 
> I would bet my next mortgage payment that she has been emotionally absent from not just you but the kids. WWs really become obsessed with their OM.
> 
> after reading your other thread I’m extra mad for you. You have been suffering for a long time. To have you thinking you the reason the sex was off was because of some past abuse you did is so typical. I believe this may not have been her first affair. Wouldn’t surprise me if the disconnect from years prior was not caused by her detaching from you because she latched on to someone else.


She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.


----------



## Mrchiller

Evinrude58 said:


> OP, you are feeling as if you’re solid on knowing the truth, but nobody can be with a woman who cheated and lied for 3 years. She has likely had other affairs.
> Her having an epiphany about how this guy used her and she has no future with him—— that’s just wrong. Dude, she KNEW that the WHOLE 2.5 yrs. Didn’t stop her then, did it?
> She is a person ruled by her desires, and he is that object of her desire.
> 
> Don’t waste time on this monster that you could be spending with a woman that lives you and makes YOUR toes curl at night.
> Just let her go and move forward. Don’t think about it, just turn it over to an attorney and let them take care of it. Gray rock her and get her out of your head.
> 
> You’re harming yourself interacting with her.


I am living with her and my 3 kids in the same house in a UK lockdown. 24/7. We could be civil as we are doing or throw abuse at each other ... to the detriment of the kids. I agree I am better than this and can find love again. I’m not ready. I need me time to absorb. I need to get my mental and physical state back. Then I can move on.


----------



## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> Wise words here, thanks. This is what I am trying to avoid ... putting the kids in the middle of a bloodbath and then losing them because I went overboard. For sure I had a part to play in the marriage breaking. That doesn’t justify what she did, I get that now.


I have young kids and I have not and will not tell them about the affair. They judge already based on how much interaction they’ve received in the last several years from their father, and I have never made up excuses for his absence. I’m their world, they are mine, and I think the rest will speak for itself eventually. That said, if they ask me when they are adults I will tell them.


----------



## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.


You're backsliding, my friend.

Read this again.


----------



## Evinrude58

Mrchiller said:


> I am living with her and my 3 kids in the same house in a UK lockdown. 24/7. We could be civil as we are doing or throw abuse at each other ... to the detriment of the kids. I agree I am better than this and can find love again. I’m not ready. I need me time to absorb. I need to get my mental and physical state back. Then I can move on.


You know you won’t get over this until you go no contact, right?
Any interaction you have with her will bring back the good memories and those memories will draw you back in and weaken you. 
None of the below that you wrote is correct. It’s just NOT. According to your wife, he was only into the sex. He wouldn’t even cuddle her. She wanted the sex. Stop letting your wife gaslight you. 

“She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. *It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked*. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.”

the part in bold is so far from reality, it should be from adifferent universe.


----------



## Divinely Favored

bobert said:


> So which is it?


Me thinks the daily is more like it.


----------



## QuietRiot

Evinrude58 said:


> You know you won’t get over this until you go no contact, right?
> Any interaction you have with her will bring back the good memories and those memories will draw you back in and weaken you.
> None of the below that you wrote is correct. It’s just NOT. According to your wife, he was only into the sex. He wouldn’t even cuddle her. She wanted the sex. Stop letting your wife gaslight you.
> 
> “She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. *It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked*. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.”
> 
> the part in bold is so far from reality, it should be from adifferent universe.


I can totally see where OP is coming from. I’ve thought so many of his SAME thoughts. I’ve used so much of his same reasoning and justifications, and I’ve refused to believe that the man I married would purposefully choose to crush me. (He was tricked, he wasn’t thinking straight, he was having a midlife crisis, he is depressed, this isn’t HIM.)

It’s so exquisitely painful that there is no comparison. We just want our lives to make sense and for the crap to not be real anymore and we will struggle for the reason to make it so. As an author I’ve read so elegantly put it; “I’ve licked the floor of hell.” 

If anything OP I hope you gain some level of comfort just knowing you aren’t alone in your pain. I still feel that pain every single day, but I don’t puke anymore, I can sleep and eat. It’s a vast improvement. You will get there. 

But at some point you will have to come to terms with that fact that she did it, she wanted to do it, she chose to do it, and she enjoyed it and it was 100% her choice to do so. I don’t think you can possibly move forward with your own healing and peace of mind until you realize you never had control of the affair. Ever. But she did. You may not be ready to face that now, but there will come a time when you must. I do understand why that is so hard to do though. I do.


----------



## TDSC60

MC, is she claiming that she saw him daily and fell in love with him and never shared a kiss? Never made plans to meet him alone? Never touched him nor he her sexually. In love with him for 2.5 years and never did anything physical? Hard to believe.


----------



## Mrchiller

TDSC60 said:


> MC, is she claiming that she saw him daily and fell in love with him and never shared a kiss? Never made plans to meet him alone? Never touched him nor he her sexually. In love with him for 2.5 years and never did anything physical? Hard to believe.


No. She had sex with him. They kissed etc on and off for 2.5 years.


----------



## Mrchiller

QuietRiot said:


> I can totally see where OP is coming from. I’ve thought so many of his SAME thoughts. I’ve used so much of his same reasoning and justifications, and I’ve refused to believe that the man I married would purposefully choose to crush me. (He was tricked, he wasn’t thinking straight, he was having a midlife crisis, he is depressed, this isn’t HIM.)
> 
> It’s so exquisitely painful that there is no comparison. We just want our lives to make sense and for the crap to not be real anymore and we will struggle for the reason to make it so. As an author I’ve read so elegantly put it; “I’ve licked the floor of hell.”
> 
> If anything OP I hope you gain some level of comfort just knowing you aren’t alone in your pain. I still feel that pain every single day, but I don’t puke anymore, I can sleep and eat. It’s a vast improvement. You will get there.
> 
> But at some point you will have to come to terms with that fact that she did it, she wanted to do it, she chose to do it, and she enjoyed it and it was 100% her choice to do so. I don’t think you can possibly move forward with your own healing and peace of mind until you realize you never had control of the affair. Ever. But she did. You may not be ready to face that now, but there will come a time when you must. I do understand why that is so hard to do though. I do.


Thanks for your post. I think the feeling of betrayal and the shock and fear of the future is by far the worst life experience. It’s hit me for six. I don’t wish this on my worst enemy because it’s just so emotionally and mentally draining but really comforting to hear from this strong community for support. Thanks


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.


9 months? So why didnt she stop seeing him if that was the case? She knew that it wasnt right and that the danger was there long before she had sex with him. If a trainer I was with started pressuring me in this way I would have found another trainer the next day.


----------



## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> I am living with her and my 3 kids in the same house in a UK lockdown. 24/7. We could be civil as we are doing or throw abuse at each other ... to the detriment of the kids. I agree I am better than this and can find love again. I’m not ready. I need me time to absorb. I need to get my mental and physical state back. Then I can move on.


Of course you are not ready for anyone else, you wont be for a very long time. It was 4 years for me before I was emotionally ready to even think of dating again. Healing takes time.


----------



## Mrchiller

Diana7 said:


> 9 months? So why didnt she stop seeing him if that was the case? She knew that it wasnt right and that the danger was there long before she had sex with him. If a trainer I was with started pressuring me in this way I would have found another trainer the next day.


He kept putting pressure on her to be friends with benefits. She reached out to friends for help who told her to try it. She reached out to a counsellor. She was having robotic sex with a depressed husband and finally cracked one day. No justification but my point is that it wasn’t instinctive.


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## Mrchiller

Someone told me having an affair like my wife did was like having crack cocaine. You get a high from it. When you aren’t with your AP, you feel at a loss like an addict. My wife over 2.5 years tried to break up 9+ times. She has timelined this for me and it adds up. But she kept going back because the alternative was a depressed husband. I think she’s still in cocaine recovery mode. She still misses the drug but has realised it’s bad for her.


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## Diana7

Mrchiller said:


> He kept putting pressure on her to be friends with benefits. She reached out to friends for help who told her to try it. She reached out to a counsellor. She was having robotic sex with a depressed husband and finally cracked one day. No justification but my point is that it wasn’t instinctive.


She didnt need to ask her friends or counsellor, all she needed to do as soon as he started this was to find another trainer. Yet she kept on and on seeing him knowing what he was after. She seemed to have no boundaries with the opposite sex.


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## Evinrude58

You are hurting right now. A lot of betrayed spouses will throw themselves on the sword and make all kinds of excuses for their wife just like you are doing. When you’re in a better place, you will see things as they really are, which is that your wife is just a plain old everyday CHEATER. She wasn’t a victim of a predator. She searched this guy out. Why do you think she chose him as a trainer? She wanted everything he gave her. Your depression has zero to do with her choice to jump another guy’s ****.
It is NOT YOUR FAULT. Will, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT!
She was not some victim. She pursued him. She joined a gym, matched up with a muscled up male faker and she is a grown woman and knew what was going to happen and HOPED for it. She is disappointed he has no feelings for her!!!! All her friends told her to bang the guy? Well birds of a feather flock together.
My friends would scorn me if I even mentioned cheating on my wife. You wouldn’t cheer on a friend to cheat on their wife, would you OP?
You should get away from your wife so you can grieve your loss and move on.
You are so badly wanting to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, that you’re willing to blame yourself because you subconsciously think you can fix this if part of the problem is you. You can’t. 
There are guys who are impotent, guys that are abusive, guys that won’t work, do drugs, CHEAT, gamble, and any number of things and their wives don’t cheat. Because they aren’t cheaters.

Your wife is a cheater and kept going back because she didn’t love you, respect you, or value you enough to give you her loyalty.

But the cheating or any other factors don’t make any difference at this point. What is important is that your wife has plainly and clearly told you that she is not in love with you. Therefore even if she was a great wife, she’s still a wife that doesn’t look upon you with the eyes of a woman who loves you.
That alone should tell you it’s time to let her go. Time to move on. You’re getting there.
You have a long way to go, as you have said.

I just want you to know that there have been men that were super husbands and their wives did the same as yours. You feel in your pain that your story and your wife is unique and special. It’s not. Your faults in the marriage are not what caused her cheating, and you should stop blaming yourself for this. Her cheating was a manifestation of HER faults, weaknesses, and desires. You didn’t make her cheat.
She cheated because that is the kind of person she REALLY is, not the person you thought. 
She is only sharing with you partial truth in your conversations with her. She was honest when she told you she didn’t love you and when she told her friend what she did. She’s not being honest when she makes herself out to be the victim of a predator. She blames her friends for this? Her counselor? His constant pestering for sex? Dude, that is just laughable. You will see this in a different light, just like we do when you aren’t in such horrible pain.
Get away from her and move forward and get out of this self imposed hell you're in. I suspect this fear of losing your wife will eventually turn to anger. It should. Your wife has and is abusing you RIGHT NOW. It’s hard to watch. I’ve been there where you are.


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## TXTrini

Mrchiller said:


> Someone told me having an affair like my wife did was like having crack cocaine. You get a high from it. When you aren’t with your AP, you feel at a loss like an addict. My wife over 2.5 years tried to break up 9+ times. She has timelined this for me and it adds up. But she kept going back because the alternative was a depressed husband. I think she’s still in cocaine recovery mode. She still misses the drug but has realised it’s bad for her.


Mrchiller,
I was so sad when I read this because it reminded me of when I tried to rationalize my exH's cheating. I blamed myself, I kept remembering the man I married when we were so much in love waiting for him to come back. I sent him all sorts of things to read hoping to jolt him out of it (my ex was in an active affair when I found out). 

All us BS have been where you are, I wouldn't wish this pain on my worst enemy. Long-term cheaters are selfish, unempathetic, and remorseless fine with betraying you every day. That was not an affair, it was a whole relationship. You say it's over, but yet, she's STILL in love with him and not with you. 

Read some of our stories, you will see you and your wife aren't unique.
Talk About Marriage


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## ConanHub

Any repercussions for the trainer?

Somewhat of a cliche.

If her statements have truth, he is a predator and abused his position and trust.


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## Mrchiller

ConanHub said:


> Any repercussions for the trainer?
> 
> Somewhat of a cliche.
> 
> If her statements have truth, he is a predator and abused his position and trust.


He lost his job at the gym as they found out he wasn’t even a qualified PT. He also lied about his age and the death of his mother. Like I said, a total headcase. All of these points have been verified.


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## ConanHub

Mrchiller said:


> He lost his job at the gym as they found out he wasn’t even a qualified PT. He also lied about his age and the death of his mother. Like I said, a total headcase. All of these points have been verified.


How intelligent is your wife feeling about now?


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## jsmart

Come on, you know how this WW is still thinking. Her OM is just misunderstood. besides, you don’t understand what we had. Eventually she will defog, but for right now, her BH is just the man who provides for the family and is the protector / leader of the family, which pails in comparison to what Mr wonderful was.


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## Marc878

Mrchiller said:


> He kept putting pressure on her to be friends with benefits. She reached out to friends for help who told her to try it. She reached out to a counsellor. She was having robotic sex with a depressed husband and finally cracked one day. No justification but my point is that it wasn’t instinctive.


Her friends are low class enemies of you, your marriage and family. Your wife has very poor boundaries. Any married woman should have known better.


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## Evinrude58

What I want to know is how one puts pressure on a woman to be friends with benefits???? Hell, any LADY would be repulsed by such a suggestion and never speak to this person again. The AP must have quickly recognized who he was dealing with to suggest such a thing—- and he was correct.


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## Gabriel

Mrchiller said:


> Someone told me having an affair like my wife did was like having crack cocaine. You get a high from it. When you aren’t with your AP, you feel at a loss like an addict. My wife over 2.5 years tried to break up 9+ times. She has timelined this for me and it adds up. But she kept going back because the alternative was a depressed husband. I think she’s still in cocaine recovery mode. She still misses the drug but has realised it’s bad for her.


Yep, the cocaine example is right on. It's dopamine. The longer she stays away from him and doesn't communicate from him, the more she will beat the addiction.


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## Mrchiller

Gabriel said:


> Yep, the cocaine example is right on. It's dopamine. The longer she stays away from him and doesn't communicate from him, the more she will beat the addiction.


Agree. We’re getting divorced in any case. We spoke and she wants it too. So I guess that’s that. Upwards and onwards.


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## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> She didn’t have any affair before. I know that. It took 9 months of her PT pestering her, gaining her trust, her friends throwing her under a bus and a therapist unable to help before she cracked. She’s not a one night stand person, she needs an emotional connection. When we dated we didn’t have sex for 1.5 years until we both emotionally connected. That’s her. She not into sex. She’s into the emotional element. When she came clean and confessed, she came clean on everything about her AP and swore there was nothing or no one else. She timelines her story and everything made sense.


Whenever we experience a trauma, our ego and self concept will try to protect itself and shield ourselves from further pain and injury.

One of the biggest defense mechanisms for a trauma like this is denial and acceptance of false narratives.

It’s bad enough to be cheated on even if it just a one night drunken hook up at the office Christmas party. 

But it’s a whole other level of pain to realize your partner was never sexually into you and basically used you for resources, status and creature comforts while having a passionate affair with some jerk while she pretty much did backflips and walked in her hands to hook up with him. 

We tell ourselves our partner isn’t into sex and is asexual, but we tell ourselves this to protect our ego from the reality our partner *IS *into sex,,,,just not with us.

One of the reasons many BHs have such a hard time accepting the depths of their WW’s involvement with the OM is they have often never seen the sexual side of their WW before and can’t imagine them being sexually responsive and sexually engaged.

Over time this protective shield will dissolve and you will awaken and see the reality.


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## oldshirt

Mrchiller said:


> We’re getting divorced in any case. We spoke and she wants it too.


My guess is the reason she disclosed to the affair to you in the first place was so you would agree to a divorce without much of a fuss.

If she was able to carry on a turbulent affair for 2.5 years, there’s no reason to think she couldn’t have taken it to her grave without you ever knowing. 

She didn’t have to tell you, so there is a reason that she did.


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## QuietRiot

Mrchiller said:


> Agree. We’re getting divorced in any case. We spoke and she wants it too. So I guess that’s that. Upwards and onwards.


I’m sorry for pain you must be feeling now, knowing it’s done as well. Please know that you can reach out for support through that pain, we understand so much what that feels like. You don’t have to do this alone, keep going to individual counseling, keep working on your own healing and concentrate on yourself. Gets what’s fair to you and the kids in your divorce. Reach out to your friends and family and create a support system for yourself. 

You will make it, you will be ok. I know it sounds impossible but it will happen. 
Please read: Cheating in a Nutshell, and Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life. They will help you heal.


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## Gabriel

Good deal. This marriage was probably dead regardless of the affair. The affair just sealed it. 

What I hate about this (as is often true) is that she won't really suffer for her heinous actions against you. 

Maybe down the road - more and more people will know what she did, and that will make her a bad investment for another man to marry.


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## jsmart

She wants the divorce because she’s still fogged up on her OM but if MrC goes through the D process from a position of indifference and works HARD on becoming the best version of himself, he may find that his STBX starts scrambling to hold on the MrC. 

Even if that doesn’t happen, she will find the karma bus hitting her when she goes out on the market. There’s not going to be men wanting to sign up for a divorcee with 3 kids. Especially if she’s honest as to why the marriage failed. Sure there will be many men who want to smash that but take her on as a wife or live girlfriend? Doubt it. Eventually a simp will sign up but he will be way less of a man than MrC.


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## ConanHub

jsmart said:


> She wants the divorce because she’s still fogged up on her OM but if MrC goes through the D process from a position of indifference and works HARD on becoming the best version of himself, he may find that his STBX starts scrambling to hold on the MrC.
> 
> Even if that doesn’t happen, she will find the karma bus hitting her when she goes out on the market. There’s not going to be men wanting to sign up for a divorcee with 3 kids. Especially if she’s honest as to why the marriage failed. Sure there will be many men who want to smash that but take her on as a wife or live girlfriend? Doubt it. Eventually a simp will sign up but he will be way less of a man than MrC.


She has already shown the "good" sense it takes to destroy her marriage and attract an idiot.


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## Gabriel

jsmart said:


> She wants the divorce because she’s still fogged up on her OM but if MrC goes through the D process from a position of indifference and works HARD on becoming the best version of himself, he may find that his STBX starts scrambling to hold on the MrC.
> 
> Even if that doesn’t happen, she will find the karma bus hitting her when she goes out on the market. There’s not going to be men wanting to sign up for a divorcee with 3 kids. Especially if she’s honest as to why the marriage failed. Sure there will be many men who want to smash that but take her on as a wife or live girlfriend? Doubt it. Eventually a simp will sign up but he will be way less of a man than MrC.


Depends on her looks. And you know she'll spin it - <<<I married an older man who went into deep depression and I just couldn't handle it anymore.>> She will even spin the affair, similarly to how she spun it to Chiller. Some men will run. Others will think it was just a bad situation for her....especially if they think she's hot.


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## jsmart

ConanHub said:


> She has already shown the "good" sense it takes to destroy her marriage and attract an idiot.


That’s exactly my point. She thought she had a prize when she became One of the plates OM was spinning but we all know that even a below average women can get line of men on demand for no strings attached sex. 

Now getting a man to commit & love her, provide, and protect for her and their 3 kids the way MrC has, is most likely not going to happen. When a wife has all that on lock, it’s so easy to take those traits for granted.

Wouldn’t surprise me if she’s looking forward to being the latest divorcee to hit the scene but after a while, like all women, she will want to be loved. Problem there’s a huge amount of guys who want FWB, which is a face saving way of being someone booty call but there are way less decent quality men who want a cheating divorcee with 3 kids as a wife or live in girlfriend.


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## ConanHub

Gabriel said:


> Depends on her looks. And you know she'll spin it - <<<I married an older man who went into deep depression and I just couldn't handle it anymore.>> She will even spin the affair, similarly to how she spun it to Chiller. Some men will run. Others will think it was just a bad situation for her....especially if they think she's hot.


Men with brains won't get hooked for more than a booty call.


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## Diana7

jsmart said:


> She wants the divorce because she’s still fogged up on her OM but if MrC goes through the D process from a position of indifference and works HARD on becoming the best version of himself, he may find that his STBX starts scrambling to hold on the MrC.
> 
> Even if that doesn’t happen, she will find the karma bus hitting her when she goes out on the market. There’s not going to be men wanting to sign up for a divorcee with 3 kids. Especially if she’s honest as to why the marriage failed. Sure there will be many men who want to smash that but take her on as a wife or live girlfriend? Doubt it. Eventually a simp will sign up but he will be way less of a man than MrC.


Does that apply to divorced men with 3 kids as well?


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## oldshirt

will she get some tall, handsome, wealthy, single guy around her age with a full head of hair and 6-pack abz?? No, those guys are spinning plates with hot, single 20-somethings. 

But the world is full of balding, middle aged simps with dad bods and work-a-day jobs that will be glad to have her. 

She’ll hook up with a string of players like the OM for time while she has her fun and feels the rush again. But eventually Someone will wife her up eventually, and my guess if when that happens he will be surprisingly like Chiller in the looks, status and demeanor department. 

That is what she found to wife her up the first time around and unless she has had some kind of youthful transformation since then, she’ll probably marry into that league again if she marries again.


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## Mrchiller

I just wanted to send one final post on this thread to say thank you to everyone for their time in contributing, for sharing your stories, the advice and love you emit. I now need time to rebuild, get my mental and emotional state in a good place and give my 3 boys all the love I can. No one knows what the future holds, but I am a strong believer if you really want something so bad, there is always a chance. I also know success is based on failure. And sometimes you don’t really know how precious something or someone is, until one day you lose it. But it’s too late by then. Life doesn’t give us an undo button.
I hope everyone stays safe and sane during this pandemic and thank you again.
Love
mrchiller


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## TJW

Mrchiller said:


> my point is that it wasn’t instinctive.


The bible says that it is instinctive. That we are born with a sin-nature. Your wife is no exception, neither am I. But she and I make different daily decisions. Me, to fight against, and avoid temptation, her, to heap it into her lap.

Now, she is burned..... although, she doesn't know it, yet. She is now going to endure the pain of losing her security, and perhaps the closeness and affection of one or both of her kids.



oldshirt said:


> it’s a whole other level of pain to realize your partner was never sexually into you and basically used you for resources, status and creature comforts while having a passionate affair with some jerk while she pretty much did backflips and walked in her hands to hook up with him.
> 
> I also know success is based on failure.


Yep. BTDT. Lived through it well, though. In retrospect, my music career was based upon it. If I had been "happily" married, it would not have happened. I supplied her needs, but told her to go to hell in a rowboat about having me be home every day.

Best wishes.... get a barracuda lawyer and keep what you deserve to keep. She deserves to keep nothing.


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## cp3o

TJW said:


> The bible says that it is instinctive.


I don't know whether what you're talking about is instinctive or not - but I do know that the Bible says a lot of things that are not correct.

If we know where to look in the Bible we can justify anything from incest, genocide and slavery to "sell everything you have and give to the poor, "take no thought for the morrow" and "do good to them that hate you". 

I'm not against including its content, or that of other scriptures, when relevant as a thought provoking input - but surely we should but remember that, in many circumstances, we now additionally have evidence-based, rationally developed tools that may serve us better.


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## manfromlamancha

I wish you well Mr Chiller. I am from the UK too and the absolute scum they allow into personal trainer roles at gyms is mind boggling. She was broken. The predator preyed on her - the stars were aligned in terms of scummy friends and crap counsellor - she was weak and this is the result. Just curious, why does SHE want a divorce now? Is it because she is not in love with you anymore, or because she feels there is no coming back from this or both?


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## farsidejunky

Mrchiller said:


> I just wanted to send one final post on this thread to say thank you to everyone for their time in contributing, for sharing your stories, the advice and love you emit. I now need time to rebuild, get my mental and emotional state in a good place and give my 3 boys all the love I can. No one knows what the future holds, but I am a strong believer if you really want something so bad, there is always a chance. I also know success is based on failure. And sometimes you don’t really know how precious something or someone is, until one day you lose it. But it’s too late by then. Life doesn’t give us an undo button.
> I hope everyone stays safe and sane during this pandemic and thank you again.
> Love
> mrchiller


Success is not based on failure.

Success is based on both learning AND adjusting from our failures. Without both, you will remain stuck.

Please do not forget about adjusting. I wish you the best. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## marko polo

Get her our of your life as quickly as possible and do not let her return. The sole exception - visiting with the kids.

You have not lost a woman of any character or quality. You will see this more and more as time passes.

All the best going forward.


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