# Who do I talk to about possible infidelity?



## SoConfused1

I started noticing that my wife was texting quite a bit and wondered who she was texting. One day I was able to pick up her phone quickly and noticed a text to a man we knew from a past business dealing. The message itself was nothing of note really but certainly rose my suspicions. Following my intuition I was able to view the text message activity through our online account mgt and noticed they are texting back and forth quite frequently and she is deleting all incoming and outgoing texts. So I've been trying to spy on her phone when she is not around and I did notice an incoming message that was a simple have a good night but ended with "XOXO". This drove me crazy and now I'm almost convinced she is either having an affair or has some emotional connection with this man. The constant texting has continued for the last 2 weeks, the rate isn't over the top but maybe 5-10 per day, more incoming from him than being sent by my wife. And I'm convinced this has been going on for much much longer.

I'm in completely uncharted territory. I'm constantly sick thinking she's having an affair. I need to get the truth and I think the only way of doing this is by spying, investigating, etc. but I have a full time job and cannot do this. I did go so far as to have a little steakout one day during her lunch break thinking she might have a rendevous with this man. Nothing happened however and I cannot keep leaving work to do this everyday. I don't want to spend thousands on a PI. Plus our accounts and credit cards are all joint accounts so any payments I would make to a PI or similar would be noticed. Same for sessions with a counselor. 

I need to talk to someone, but don't want to go to my family yet and make things awkward. Same with her family. And both of our families have enough trying things going on in their lives and I don't want to add to their stress by bringing my suspicions to them. Most of our friends are mutual so I don't want to go to them for fear something might slip out and again avoid awkwardness. I don't want to say anything to anyone at work either for because I don't want my personal life the subject of water-cooler conversation. 

So where do I go? Who do I talk to? I so need advice and help but feel so alone and don't know who I can trust to keep their mouth shut and I don't want to upset loved ones unless I know exactly what is going on.


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## carolinadreams

I would suggest your wife, and the man. Lay down the law. Barring the man being family that type of xoxox stuff is completely innapropriate for a traditional marriage. Depending on the model of phone there are several applications that can recover deleted text messages. I suggest you take the phone recover the messages and see what there is to see.

Do you have your wife's email account and facebook information?


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## carolinadreams

For the most part I think opposite sex friends that don't come as a couple, and aren't clear friends of the marriage - are going to be corrosive to the marriage. Why do you think this man is interacting privately and directly with your wife, confront him and her and put a stop to it. Demand transparency, and recover the messages from the phone.

You can always wait and investigate but affairs can go quickly physical, and every day will see a diminishment of her respect for you and the boundaries of the marriage.


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## somethingelse

Sorry that you have to go through this. Your W is definitely crossing boundaries here. Most likely has already had a full fledged A.

If I was you I would play full out detective at this point.


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## SoConfused1

This man is not a family member so yes I agree totally inappropriate. I would like to discover all I can before confronting her. There is so much for her and us to lose and I feel she will only admit to whatever I have proof of, which right now is just text history but nothing to read because they are all deleted. I have looked around at spy stuff for cell phones and because hers is not a smart phone and doesn't have a SIM card I am not sure how else to recover the actual text of these messages. I have access to some of her email accounts but have found nothing. I still need to dive in to her facebook account as well.


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## SoConfused1

Well I feel like letting this go so I can fully investigate. We are parents so if there is an affair I need to know because if I confront now and they stop and I never find out what actually occurred I will always have this in the back of my mind if I decide to stick with the marriage. I hate to let them continue on but I also need to get the proof either by catching them or somehow getting the proof I need, if there is any to get.


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## somethingelse

Well I'm not tech guru, so I really can't help you all too much in that area. I know that you can buy a VAR and put it in her car if you want to hear the kinds of conversations she's having with this guy. You could put a GPS in her car as well. Keep track of where she's going.


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## SoConfused1

There have only been one or two phone calls between them and I don't think either have been in the car. Oddly enough the phone calls just started yesterday since I've been tracking her cell phone activity but probably also that has been going on longer as well. I have thought about purchasing a GPS tracker to place in her car.


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## carolinadreams

If the calls have just started you may be ahead of this thing. You may very well be in a window of stopping this now, before it goes physical. 
Is he her friend on Facebook? 

Do you have any concerns about confronting this man directly?

Do some google searches there are several applications that can scan a variety of cell phones.


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> There have only been one or two phone calls between them and I don't think either have been in the car. Oddly enough the phone calls just started yesterday since I've been tracking her cell phone activity but probably also that has been going on longer as well. I have thought about purchasing a GPS tracker to place in her car.


Once phone calls start, that means trouble. How long were the phone calls? You would be surprised what WS (wayward spouses) can hide


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## SoConfused1

I doubt the calls have just started, they just started popping up in her cell phone usage history recently in my tracking of it over the last 2 weeks. She at first left the entry in her call log on her cell phone but later deleted it, of course. 

What type of concerns are you talking about re confronting him? 

I do not see him in her facebook friends. He may not be on facebook.


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## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> Once phone calls start, that means trouble. How long were the phone calls? You would be surprised what WS (wayward spouses) can hide



One phone call was 20 minutes. The others were 1 or 2 minutes. It's not as if they haven't spoken before, this man has done work for us in the past. But now that she is deleting all the history, this is obviously serious cause for concern.

That's what I'm afraid of but also what I need to find out. What is she hiding? What has she done, with him? For how long? My mind is reeling to say the least.


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## the guy

A lot of folks have been screwed over by their cheating spouse here at TAM/CWI (Talk About Marriage/Coping with Infidelity) and we we all have life experiences and have gone thru it.

So please be rest assured you are no phucking way alone!


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> One phone call was 20 minutes. The others were 1 or 2 minutes. It's not as if they haven't spoken before, this man has done work for us in the past. But now that she is deleting all the history, this is obviously serious cause for concern.
> 
> That's what I'm afraid of but also what I need to find out. What is she hiding? What has she done, with him? For how long? My mind is reeling to say the least.


I always say once you start finding evidence, it's already too late. She may say different, but the likelihood that she will tell the truth is HIGHLY doubtful. 20 minutes means having a heart to heart. 1 or 2 minutes means they had a short quick confirmation of something, perhaps meeting up. 

What kind of work has he done for you in the past? and how long ago was this?


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## carolinadreams

If you are into her Facebook make sure you check the archived messages, and also click on her timeline.


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## SoConfused1

Thank you "the guy". I do feel so alone but that is helpful. 

I would rather not divulge the work he did for us out of confidentiality but the bulk of it was over 2 years ago and he has done some minor things at my wife's request after that. Nothing recent though


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## the guy

Go James Bond on her @ss...get the VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) , key logger, and GPS!

Once you get in the know then you can fight !


Until, you know you enemy that is infecting the dynamics of the marriage you are swinging at shadows. Your covert investigation will help you in having an effective confrontation.

You need to check your self and compose your self and focus on the the end game of facing what is really going on ........

or you can listen to a punch of lies from your chick and spend another few months of torture?

So do you want to be deceived and used as a doormat or do you want to be one step ahead of the one person that you trusted the most in life?


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Thank you "the guy". I do feel so alone but that is helpful.
> 
> I would rather not divulge the work he did for us out of confidentiality but the bulk of it was over 2 years ago and he has done some minor things at my wife's request after that. Nothing recent though


At your W's request? So I'm guessing it's house repair or something along that line? I'm just trying to see how often he's been around your W. It will give me a better idea of what stage her R with him might be at


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## Silverlining

SoConfused1,

I Would stop this dead in it's tracks. Immediately! Once an emotional affair begins it quickly escalates to a physical affair. You need to snap her out of the affair fog, now. In order to do this, you need to be an alpha male. Contact this person and tell him he better never contact your wife ever again. Make threats if you need to, just don't touch him. 

You need to confront her. Inform her that you know she is texting and talking to this man. She needs to stop all contact immediately. Of course she will say you are blowing this all out of proportion, they are only friends, you are smothering her and not giving her any privacy. Tell her if she wants privacy then she needs to divorce you. 

Make her promise no contact and tell her that you will divorce her if she crosses the line and has an emotional or physical relationship. 

Put a Voice activated recorder in her car immediately. 

Good luck,


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## SoConfused1

How well does a VAR work in a car if I have to hide it under a seat or somewhere she won't find it? What is a key logger? Any recommendations on these and the GPS?

I want to be ahead of her for sure. I think I am already but my suspicion may have kicked in too slowly. She's awfully careful about where her cell phone is and she always puts it face down so I can't see if a message is received, although this evening she was less careful but he didn't send her any messages. 

It's torture already. She wants to go out to dinner in a week, just the 2 of us. I was hoping to gather enough info by then to confront her cuz we will be all alone, but not sure I'll have all the details I need by then.


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## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> At your W's request? So I'm guessing it's house repair or something along that line? I'm just trying to see how often he's been around your W. It will give me a better idea of what stage her R with him might be at


My guess would be 2 years if that was the initial job. If a woman is going to bang the contractor it's right out of the chute. He does it all the time and knows the sooner he "closes the deal" the better.

OP, here are a couple of options, investigate or bluff a confession.

I recommend you investigate for your own peace of mind, but your wife has either already committed adultery or is planning to do so very soon. Velcro a VAR to the bottom or her car seat and a put a GPS tracker (preferably real time) on her car.

Does your wife have a job?


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## SoConfused1

Again I will not give out the details of the work he has done but a couple of years ago he was around her fairly often (not alone though I don't think) as well him and I. She used to mention him if she was going to have him do something but she hasn't brought up his name now for at least 6 months, probably longer maybe a year.


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> How well does a VAR work in a car if I have to hide it under a seat or somewhere she won't find it? What is a key logger? Any recommendations on these and the GPS?
> 
> I want to be ahead of her for sure. I think I am already but my suspicion may have kicked in too slowly. She's awfully careful about where her cell phone is and she always puts it face down so I can't see if a message is received, although this evening she was less careful but he didn't send her any messages.
> 
> It's torture already. She wants to go out to dinner in a week, just the 2 of us. I was hoping to gather enough info by then to confront her cuz we will be all alone, but not sure I'll have all the details I need by then.


VAR will work great under the seat or under the dash even with a remote mike. Key logger records her keystrokes from the keyboard so you can identify and break into her secret email accounts and bogus facebook identities.

Is adultery a deal breaker or would you like to reconcile if given the chance?


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## SoConfused1

Confront him immediately may stop the contact but will it stop the affair? My wife does have a full time job as do I so what she does during the day is completely unknown to me. They can still meet up without texting I would think. I guess I do need a VAR.

I have to know. I'm afraid if I confront too soon I won't get the full story. I have to know everything for my own peace of mind as well as for any possible reconciliation. But depending on what has happened I don't know if reconciliation will be possible. But because we are parents I have to at least try reconcile.


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Again I will not give out the details of the work he has done but a couple of years ago he was around her fairly often (not alone though I don't think) as well him and I. She used to mention him if she was going to have him do something but she hasn't brought up his name now for at least 6 months, probably longer maybe a year.


The last time she mentioned him was around the time they took it to a hot and heavy level. They did something, maybe not full copulation, in their initial meeting phase, but ramped things up right before she shut up about him. It's in the cheater's script to do it that way.


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## SoConfused1

Machiavelli said:


> VAR will work great under the seat or under the dash even with a remote mike. Key logger records her keystrokes from the keyboard so you can identify and break into her secret email accounts and bogus facebook identities.
> 
> Is adultery a deal breaker or would you like to reconcile if given the chance?



Not sure she has fake emails or facebook accounts. She keeps busy and isn't on the computer that much and I am almost positive she cannot do those sorts of things at work. From what I can gather and assume at this point, all contact has been through text and cell phone calls.

If we were not parents, adultery would for sure be a deal breaker. I feel though as parents it is imperative to try and work things out, but clearly our relationship will never be the same again.


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Confront him immediately may stop the contact but will it stop the affair?


Don't confront HIM, unless you're ready to terminate him or pound his ass into the pavement. This has been the best, most alpha response for the last 4.6 million years, but was recently made illegal. That means don't confront the OM ever. Is he married?



SoConfused1 said:


> My wife does have a full time job as do I so what she does during the day is completely unknown to me. They can still meet up without texting I would think. I guess I do need a VAR.


Yes, they can meet up. You do need a VAR. Besides the car, put one in the rooms she would be most likely to talk privately with him if she were at home. GPS the car. If they meet for nooners, he probably won't be picking her up at the front door of her employer.



SoConfused1 said:


> I have to know. I'm afraid if I confront too soon I won't get the full story. I have to know everything for my own peace of mind as well as for any possible reconciliation. But depending on what has happened I don't know if reconciliation will be possible. But because we are parents I have to at least try reconcile.


You will never get "the full story." Actually, you don't have to reconcile, although it is very noble and honorable to try when kids are involved.

Who is hotter, you or your wife?


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Not sure she has fake emails or facebook accounts. She keeps busy and isn't on the computer that much and I am almost positive she cannot do those sorts of things at work. From what I can gather and assume at this point, all contact has been through text and cell phone calls.
> 
> If we were not parents, adultery would for sure be a deal breaker. I feel though as parents it is imperative to try and work things out, but clearly our relationship will never be the same again.


No, it won't be the same. Does your wife ever go out at night with her girlfriends? Does she not use a computer with an internet connection at work?


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## SoConfused1

Mach, you are not making me feel better, but are certainly confirming my suspicions. Nothing else though matches this so-called "script". She hasn't changed her appearance or weight or anything. Sexually activity hasn't changed mainly because it has almost been non-existent for a long time. She acts like nothing is different, we are talking about future events and vacations and such. Is she trying to have her cake and eat it too?


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> How well does a VAR work in a car if I have to hide it under a seat or somewhere she won't find it? What is a key logger? Any recommendations on these and the GPS?
> 
> I want to be ahead of her for sure. I think I am already but my suspicion may have kicked in too slowly. She's awfully careful about where her cell phone is and she always puts it face down so I can't see if a message is received, although this evening she was less careful but he didn't send her any messages.
> 
> It's torture already. She wants to go out to dinner in a week, just the 2 of us. I was hoping to gather enough info by then to confront her cuz we will be all alone, but not sure I'll have all the details I need by then.


Yeah, hide it under her seat. I think a key logger just keeps a memory of what she's typed on the computer ??? Correct me people if I'm wrong..

My H used to always put his phone face down and keep it on him at all times when he was cheating. 

They most likely already have a good system going. She tells him not to text or call at a certain time of the day, vice versa


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Mach, you are not making me feel better, but are certainly confirming my suspicions. Nothing else though matches this so-called "script". She hasn't changed her appearance or weight or anything. Sexually activity hasn't changed mainly because it has almost been non-existent for a long time. She acts like nothing is different, we are talking about future events and vacations and such. Is she trying to have her cake and eat it too?


So far, she's succeeded. When did your sex life go in the crapper?


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## Lonely&frustrated

SoConfused1 said:


> This man is not a family member so yes I agree totally inappropriate. I would like to discover all I can before confronting her. There is so much for her and us to lose and I feel she will only admit to whatever I have proof of, which right now is just text history but nothing to read because they are all deleted. I have looked around at spy stuff for cell phones and because hers is not a smart phone and doesn't have a SIM card I am not sure how else to recover the actual text of these messages. I have access to some of her email accounts but have found nothing. I still need to dive in to her facebook account as well.


Surprise her with a new smartphone, one that you can keep track of  Put tracking apps on it, there are ways to hide the apps


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## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> My guess would be 2 years if that was the initial job. If a woman is going to bang the contractor it's right out of the chute. He does it all the time and knows the sooner he "closes the deal" the better.
> 
> OP, here are a couple of options, investigate or bluff a confession.
> 
> I recommend you investigate for your own peace of mind, but your wife has either already committed adultery or is planning to do so very soon. Velcro a VAR to the bottom or her car seat and a put a GPS tracker (preferably real time) on her car.
> 
> Does your wife have a job?


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing


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## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> The last time she mentioned him was around the time they took it to a hot and heavy level. They did something, maybe not full copulation, in their initial meeting phase, but ramped things up right before she shut up about him. It's in the cheater's script to do it that way.


:iagree:


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## Silverlining

Did your sex life fizzle in the last 2yrs?


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## SoConfused1

My wife is hotter, not sure why that matters. I was never planning on confronting him directly. I think he is married. At least he was and I vaguely remember something about his wife being overbearing or difficult or something sort of problem. I could be wrong but who knows. Sex life went in the crapper after we became parents. 
My wife does get on the internet at work but they have safeguards that prevent them from doing too many personal things. Will have to check that out though. She works hard and goes to bed pretty early which leaves time for me to snoop around at night so that's a good thing. She doesn't go out too often but does go out with a friend from time to time. One time in particular she was out pretty late but didn't think it was anything. Now I wonder if it was something else.


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Confront him immediately may stop the contact but will it stop the affair? My wife does have a full time job as do I so what she does during the day is completely unknown to me. They can still meet up without texting I would think. I guess I do need a VAR.
> 
> I have to know. I'm afraid if I confront too soon I won't get the full story. I have to know everything for my own peace of mind as well as for any possible reconciliation. But depending on what has happened I don't know if reconciliation will be possible. But because we are parents I have to at least try reconcile.


Because you have children, make sure that if you do choose to D, stay in the house and don't allow her to kick you out if that's the route she tries to take once you reveal her A. You'll be in far better standing with the courts if you stand your ground as the faithful S. It will help with custody of you children as well.

If she wants to reconcile, and you still want her, then you have to make it clear that she come clean, be completely honest and not hide anything ever again. No cell phones in her pocket, always updating you on what she's doing, etc.


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## SoConfused1

Silverlining said:


> Did your sex life fizzle in the last 2yrs?


Unfortunately it fizzled far beyond 2 years ago.


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife is hotter, not sure why that matters. I was never planning on confronting him directly. I think he is married. At least he was and I vaguely remember something about his wife being overbearing or difficult or something sort of problem. I could be wrong but who knows. Sex life went in the crapper after we became parents.
> My wife does get on the internet at work but they have safeguards that prevent them from doing too many personal things. Will have to check that out though. She works hard and goes to bed pretty early which leaves time for me to snoop around at night so that's a good thing. She doesn't go out too often but does go out with a friend from time to time. One time in particular she was out pretty late but didn't think it was anything. Now I wonder if it was something else.


If he does have a W, once you do expose this, you must tell her what your W and her H have been up to. It will help separate the AP from your W


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## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> Because you have children, make sure that if you do choose to D, stay in the house and don't allow her to kick you out if that's the route she tries to take once you reveal her A. You'll be in far better standing with the courts if you stand your ground as the faithful S. It will help with custody of you children as well.
> 
> If she wants to reconcile, and you still want her, then you have to make it clear that she come clean, be completely honest and not hide anything ever again. No cell phones in her pocket, always updating you on what she's doing, etc.


I never wanted to the be husband who needed to constantly watch over what his wife was doing. This is awful. I don't want to lose custody but don't want her to either. Ugh.


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## the guy

Has anyone mentioned the 180 and the protection these actions have in bringing the betrayed spouse?

The 180 will help if your confrontation is unsuccessful.

The 180 will help you regroup and focus on you and not so much on competing with the OM.


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## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> If he does have a W, once you do expose this, you must tell her what your W and her H have been up to. It will help separate the AP from your W


Yes I have full intention of doing so. I thought about trying to work together with his wife if he still has one, but didn't think I could trust her to do things the way I wanted to and may just confront him too soon.


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## SoConfused1

the guy said:


> Has anyone mentioned the 180 and the protection these actions have in bringing the betrayed spouse?
> 
> The 180 will help if your confrontation is unsuccessful.
> 
> The 180 will help you regroup and focus on you and not so much on competing with the OM.


180? Pls explain.


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife is hotter, not sure why that matters.


It's supremely important for the simple reason that marriage is all about sex, and because if she's hotter and stays that way for a while, she will start to resent you and she will lose sexual attraction for you. Then when you're trying to get her revved up, she'll just lie there like a corpse and say "I don't need anything, but you go ahead." She may honestly think she's lost her sexual desire, because women are told they don't really respond to hot male physiques, etc. Then some guy with a higher _perceived_ SMV to you, it doesn't matter if he's really higher or not as he may just have attitude, comes along and it's like a kiss from Prince Charming reawakens her sleeping Libido.




SoConfused1 said:


> I was never planning on confronting him directly.


Good, it only makes you like weak and pvssified, unless of course you put him in a shallow grave in the woods. Don't do that, i'm just explaining the dynamic, not making suggestions.




SoConfused1 said:


> I think he is married. At least he was and I vaguely remember something about* his wife being overbearing or difficult *or something sort of problem.


I suppose that last bit was told to you by your wife. That's a standard leg opening line. Investigate him and find his wife's location and contact info so you can expose him to her when you get solid evidence.




SoConfused1 said:


> I could be wrong but who knows. Sex life went in the crapper after we became parents.


A common occurrence. If you want to do a quick read on how it comes about that your wife loses attraction for you, download Married Man Sex Life Primer from Amazon and read it, pronto. It's not a sex book, it's about how guys stop being attractive to their wives as they become "beta-ized" by marriage. The fat gut doesn't help either. Read that book immediately.



SoConfused1 said:


> My wife does get on the internet at work but they have safeguards that prevent them from doing too many personal things. Will have to check that out though. She works hard and goes to bed pretty early which leaves time for me to snoop around at night so that's a good thing.


I like L&F's idea about giving her a smart phone. That way you can GPS her even if she gets in his car. Check your wife's car for a cheat bag. Has she altered her downstairs hairstyle in the last couple of years?


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> 180? Pls explain.


The 180 is a way to move forward after you decide to split or she refuses to end the affair.


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## the guy

no more begging for the marriage
no more affection
no more "Ilove you"


The oppisite of love is indifferenced......a tactic that shows them you are so confident in ketting them go ...they second guess their choices with you.

The 180 show them that you can and *will* let them go... another tactic that gets them to think twice about ther disicions.


The 180 helps you put up the walls that shows them that you *can* let them go and will not tolorate sharing them!


so no more begging 
more working on your self and not them
independent thinking that shows them you can let them go
stop doing things for them
let them face their new reality by no longer being there for them when they need you


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> I never wanted to the be husband who needed to constantly watch over what his wife was doing. This is awful. I don't want to lose custody but don't want her to either. Ugh.


Nobody wants to snoop on their S, it's exhausting and discouraging...but at this point you really have no choice. 

You can't worry about what happens to her right now. If she is having an A, it means that she hasn't been concentrating on taking care of you and her children.


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## SoConfused1

The thinning hair isn't helping either. I see your point. I guess I haven't thought about all this in depth as this is all coming as quite a shock. 

When and since it has fizzled, she claims she doesn't like sex before bed at night but rather in the morning. Always found that odd considering bad morning breath and sleep marks. 

I'm the most non-violent person I know so I would never do anything.

I don't remember if my wife told me that or others did. Probably some BS line he feeds everyone right?

I have a hard time getting myself to do anything nice for her at this point, even if there is a hidden agenda behind getting her a smart phone.

There wasn't a change in her hair "down there", however if she did change it in the last 4-5 months I probably wouldn't know. Sad I know, but very true.


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## SoConfused1

And why are there nearly twice as many text messages from him to my W than from her to him? Sometimes he sends 2 or 3 right in a row. WTF is that all about?


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## carolinadreams

It indicates that he is pursuing your wife.


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## carolinadreams

I still am not a fan of a drawn out investigation. From my experience I would put a stop to it before it can progress. A call to his wife, and then him would probably halt this in it's tracks.


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## SoConfused1

I'm so stupid. That is the logical answer yet I can't even see it. No wonder I didn't see this coming.


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## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> I still am not a fan of a drawn out investigation. From my experience I would put a stop to it before it can progress. A call to his wife, and then him would probably halt this in it's tracks.


Shouldn't I confront my W first? Or do I message him telling him to back off and then let her come begging me for forgiveness without even saying anything?


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## bryanp

How do you think your wife would be acting if the roles were reversed?


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## SoConfused1

bryanp said:


> How do you think your wife would be acting if the roles were reversed?


funny you mention that because I saw a draft text she was working up to someone about a man and his neighbor woman textin back and forth and she claimed if that was me texting a neighbor she would be furious. Yet at the same time she is doing what she's doing? How is this possible?


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> funny you mention that because I saw a draft text she was working up to someone about a man and his neighbor woman textin back and forth and she claimed if that was me texting a neighbor she would be furious. Yet at the same time she is doing what she's doing? How is this possible?


Takes more of the attention off of what she's doing


----------



## Machiavelli

carolinadreams said:


> I still am not a fan of a drawn out investigation. From my experience I would put a stop to it before it can progress. A call to his wife, and then him would probably halt this in it's tracks.


That's fine if he wants to go straight to divorce or is not looking at a fault (adultery) divorce. Otherwise, he will probably cave when she gaslights him with insufficient evidence, as we see so often on this board.

If he's not in a fault state, he could just drop downloaded D papers in front of her and ask her to sign. Then respond to her what? with "I know all about your affairs". Again, she will gaslight him and unless he is more stout than most who post here, he won't know his ass from a hole in the ground in five minutes and will be apologizing to her for jumping to conclusions.

They've been going at it for months, so taking a couple weeks to nail down the facts isn't going to change anything.


----------



## tom67

Well time to contact the omw then asap jmo.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Shouldn't I confront my W first? Or do I message him telling him to back off and then let her come begging me for forgiveness without even saying anything?


No contact with OM ever. Only contact OMW if you have something solid to give her or she'll just blow you off as a nut when you've got nothing after she asks for evidence.

Your wife isn't going to be begging for forgiveness, not for a while. She has so much contempt for you, you've been beta-ized, remember?, that she thinks you'll eat a sh!t sandwich if she tells you it's steak.


----------



## Shamwow

Steal her phone. Oops, she can't find it tomorrow. Then go sit at a diner in the next town and wait for d-bag to send her a text. Preferably do this in the hours just before he is normally texting her. 

Sorry you have to do this crap. You sound like a good guy, just beta-ized into trusting your wife without condition (until recently). Most of us know what that's like. You must actively man up. Your marriage may be ending, but if you get proof and nail her hard with it, you have a window of opportunity. Unless she's already emotionally out, in which case you'll do well to be well along in the 180 by then. My exW was talking about vacations and future plans too, while flat out lying about everything suspicious I asked her about. Pretty common once a WS has crossed the line.

Good luck and don't confront on the number of texts, you need content.


----------



## tom67

Show the text history to her and if your wife gaslights you tell don't ask her she is going for a polygraph test. Calm ,cool, and as dispassionate as you can be.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> funny you mention that because I saw a draft text she was working up to someone about a man and his neighbor woman textin back and forth and she claimed if that was me texting a neighbor she would be furious. Yet at the same time she is doing what she's doing? How is this possible?


misdirection. Even adulteresses hate cheaters, but they aren't really cheaters because their Rationalization Hamster granted them a retroactive divorce after the first adulterous episode.


----------



## somethingelse

Shamwow said:


> Steal her phone. Oops, she can't find it tomorrow. Then go sit at a diner in the next town and wait for d-bag to send her a text. Preferably do this in the hours just before he is normally texting her.
> Good luck and don't confront on the number of texts, you need content.


:iagree:


----------



## SoConfused1

Shamwow said:


> Steal her phone. Oops, she can't find it tomorrow. Then go sit at a diner in the next town and wait for d-bag to send her a text. Preferably do this in the hours just before he is normally texting her.
> 
> 
> I thought about that too but figured the first text of the day may be just a "good morning, how are you?" type message and if I replied trying to coerce something out of him it would be too transparent and he would be on to me.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words btw. Not sure I'm a good guy, and I probably helped drive her to this but it's nice to hear.


----------



## SoConfused1

And why is it that I have such resentment for her right now yet also am a bit more attracted to her, yet could see myself never having sex with her again? 

I have a feeling I will be anything but cool calm and collected when I confront her and will probably need to leave home for a bit yet at the same time I don't want this marriage and our relationship to end.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> And why is it that I have such resentment for her right now yet also am a bit more attracted to her, yet could see myself never having sex with her again?
> 
> I have a feeling I will be anything but cool calm and collected when I confront her and will probably need to leave home for a bit yet at the same time I don't want this marriage and our relationship to end.


Probably just your instinctive male territory kicking in. 

Whenever my H cheated, I fought to keep our R together out of instinct I believe. I had the drive to be more intimate with him and I gave him WHATEVER he wanted..I thought it would keep him from cheating more and I think it was just to prove that I was doing all in my power to make us intimate. 

It's in us to want to make sure our S doesn't continue the A....even if it means dealing with the left overs.


----------



## Shamwow

SoConfused1 said:


> And why is it that I have such resentment for her right now yet also am a bit more attracted to her, yet could see myself never having sex with her again?


Because you're realizing the gravity of the situation and starting to detach. That's a good thing. She can try to win your trust back but you know that this is going to be a huge deal once the details come to light.

Edit** You want what you can't have, and right now you can't have her. With all the drama unfolding you just want what you used to have. So you're wanting to bond with her.



> I have a feeling I will be anything but cool calm and collected when I confront her and will probably need to leave home for a bit yet at the same time I don't want this marriage and our relationship to end.


Well, you have to try. Steel yourself, practice saying your piece into the mirror until you know it by heart if you have to. But if you freak while confronting her, she'll talk you down into a mode where you'll want to believe everything she says. Been there. Sucks. SO after you say what you have to say, tell her you'll be gone for a while, then go. Go hang with guy friends, cry at a hotel by yourself as necessary. But NOT in front of her. Any "loving" traits you show to her after finding proof will be wasted, and actually counter-productive.

But without the proof that you're looking for it's kind of a moot point, unless you're John Wayne in confronting her. Once you have it the steps you take will be so much easier and you'll find yourself acting out of body, but in the way you want to.

Edit** btw You have more than enough to prove she's being unfaithful, but you seem to be like many of us who needed hard details to prove we weren't making the hugest mistake ever on suspicions alone. That's fine. Just get it.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> I thought about that too but figured the first text of the day may be just a "good morning, how are you?" type message and if I replied trying to coerce something out of him it would be too transparent and he would be on to me.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words btw. Not sure I'm a good guy, and I probably helped drive her to this but it's nice to hear.


No, you didn't drive her to do it. She did it all on her own. Could you have prevented it? Probably, but you thought she was an honorable person. If you'd known she was capable of this, you would have married someone else. I think they're all capable.


SoConfused1 said:


> And why is it that I have such resentment for her right now yet also am a bit more attracted to her, yet could see myself never having sex with her again?


It's a visceral urge to reclaim your woman. It could also be horniness since she cut you off so long ago. BTW, accepting that state of affairs also causes you to lower your SMV in your wife's eyes.



SoConfused1 said:


> I have a feeling I will be anything but cool calm and collected when I confront her and will probably need to leave home for a bit yet at the same time I don't want this marriage and our relationship to end.


If you confront her now, don't let her gaslight you. Gaslight her. Tell her you know she's having an affair and you are giving her one opportunity to come clean and this is it. If she lies or leaves anything out, you'll know. Don't try this until you've boned up on interrogation techniques, though. It's just a lot easier if you have ironclad proof, like taped conversations, etc.

Did you get that book?


----------



## the guy

SoConfused1 said:


> And why is it that I have such resentment for her right now yet also am a bit more attracted to her, yet could see myself never having sex with her again?
> 
> I have a feeling I will be anything but cool calm and collected when I confront her and will probably need to leave home for a bit yet at the same time I don't want this marriage and our relationship to end.


Cuz you want to piss on whats yours and claim it as such even though....its just a thing we guys do when this crap happens.

its called ego and it gets in the way.

Thats how they (wayward) control us.

Phuck that when you reclaim your man hood that bull crap don't work when the betrayal is so deceitful!


And ya when you lose your sh1t when you confront her she will be the 1st one to do the damage control by telling everyone in your family how nuts you are when your looking for someone to bail you out of jail.

Unless, your like me and have a bail fund and are prepared. I have a found...that its best to have a bail fund if he have issue's (anger management issues)with hitting people and that includes your wife. 

In most case I use my bail fund cuz some POS got me worked and I ended up hitting or running them off the road(back in the day).

Sometimes calm and collective is the best approach ...especially when your old lady tries to rewrite the history of the marriage making you look like the bad guy while she bangs some POS.


----------



## SoConfused1

My worry when I confront her is that I will be enraged and yelling and there will be no way I will believe anything she says. And I absolutely want the proof before I confront her.

Is there anything gained from ME telling her parents? 

It sounds like you are all preparing me for an eventual divorce, which quite frankly is totally devastating. I actually don't feel as bad today and right as I have pretty much all this week. Maybe because I have an outlet now with some feedback? I don't know but for some reason I always feel worse when I am away from home like at work or running errands, than I feel when I am at home.


----------



## Shamwow

Machiavelli said:


> Did you get that book?


:iagree:

Athol Kay, MMSL Primer. Download it and read asap.


----------



## the guy

Please don't make the mistake I made and be labeled by leaving....

Be an alpha male and control your stuff and don't let other take control of your emotions. 

Thats how you get screwed.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> My worry when I confront her is that I will be enraged and yelling and there will be no way I will believe anything she says. And I absolutely want the proof before I confront her.
> 
> Is there anything gained from ME telling her parents?
> 
> It sounds like you are all preparing me for an eventual divorce, which quite frankly is totally devastating. I actually don't feel as bad today and right as I have pretty much all this week. Maybe because I have an outlet now with some feedback? I don't know but for some reason I always feel worse when I am away from home like at work or running errands, than I feel when I am at home.


I'll let the guys take this one

But in regards to divorce, you don't have to D if you don't want to. It's just something to think about if you are the type who has zero tolerance.


----------



## Shamwow

SoConfused1 said:


> Is there anything gained from ME telling her parents?


Yes, but only after you confront her with evidence. If you call them for help now you'll look like a giant pu$$y.



> It sounds like you are all preparing me for an eventual divorce, which quite frankly is totally devastating.


Sucks. Has to happen sometimes though. Not saying it's inevitable in your case (only know what you've told us here!), just that you may find things that make you choose that route easily. But that's your call.


----------



## the guy

Telling her folks is damage contol on your part.

believe me she will say anything to make her self look good.

exposing her folks will make the affair inconvienent and uncomfortable and for now that is the goal.

or you can keep your mouth shut as she introduces the OM as her savior from an abusive husband


----------



## the guy

somethingelse said:


> I'll let the guys take this one
> 
> But in regards to divorce, you don't have to D if you don't want to. It's just something to think about if you are the type who has zero tolerance.


Thanks, but we all need to help OP out and help him find his focus


----------



## SoConfused1

I am not worried about being violent because I am not a violent person, but I do get worked up and probably will be loud screaming and all. Not sure I will be able to control it, not sure how any of this is going to come down. Maybe if I have enough proof before confrontation then I won't have as much anger as that will come out upon discovering the "smoking gun". 

Ok, so if I could have prevented it isn't it still my fault? How can I look my kids in the eye and tell them anything else but I failed as a husband and father? This is horrible.


----------



## Shamwow

the guy said:


> Telling her folks is damage contol on your part.
> 
> believe me she will say anything to make her self look good.
> 
> exposing her folks will make the affair inconvienent and uncomfortable and for now that is the goal.
> 
> or you can keep your mouth shut as she introduces the OM as her savior from an abusive husband


Agree, but not until you have confronted with your proof, otherwise you're the dude asking her mommy and daddy to fix it for you, while she's telling them (and YOU) that you're crazy. Tell them when you've taken a hard stance and she knows you know plenty.


----------



## SoConfused1

the guy said:


> telling her folks is damage contol on your part.
> 
> Believe me she will say anything to make her self look good.
> 
> Exposing her folks will make the affair inconvienent and uncomfortable and for now that is the goal.
> 
> Or you can keep your mouth shut as she introduces the om as her savior from an abusive husband


i am not abusive.


----------



## Shamwow

SoConfused1 said:


> I am not worried about being violent because I am not a violent person, but I do get worked up and probably will be loud screaming and all. Not sure I will be able to control it, not sure how any of this is going to come down. Maybe if I have enough proof before confrontation then I won't have as much anger as that will come out upon discovering the "smoking gun".
> 
> Ok, so if I could have prevented it isn't it still my fault? How can I look my kids in the eye and tell them anything else but I failed as a husband and father? This is horrible.


Are you cheating? No (we presume). She has failed your marriage and your family by taking her marital issues elsewhere instead of facing them with you or divorcing you. We all have failings and you certainly seem to have a few of your own on your mind, but keep things in perspective.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok, so if I could have prevented it isn't it still my fault? How can I look my kids in the eye and tell them anything else but I failed as a husband and father? This is horrible.


You couldn't have prevented anything. This happens to the best of us. You have to be strong right now and do what these guys are telling you. The most I ever did right when push came to shove was leaving my H and cutting off contact. Drove him nuts, but it worked and we're still together today because of it


----------



## SoConfused1

No I didn't the book. Do I really need to read about something that has already happened and that I couldn't prevent?


----------



## the guy

SoConfused1 said:


> i am not abusive.


so she justifies her affair based on you being the perfect husband and she tells her folks what a bad daughter that they raised?

Are you kiding?

Sir your old lady cheated on her husband and broke some serious vows she took infront of her family and friends!
How else is she going to explain her crap to all those poeple at your wedding so many years ago?

seriously think about damage conctrol and more importantly making her affair inconvienet and uncomfortable as possibly by exposing it for what it really is.


----------



## SoConfused1

the guy said:


> seriously think about damage conctrol and more importantly making her affair inconvienet and uncomfortable as possibly by exposing it for what it really is.


And what is it really?


----------



## the guy

you are breaking up the family unit because of her infidelity


but for now its just a matter of doing the painful invesigation in getting you out of this emotional torture


----------



## the guy

Sorry but my take is about the deceit, not the marriage.

maybe after the deceit is addressed then the marriage can be adressed?


----------



## SoConfused1

I really appreciate all your input. I am going to sleep on all this and then probably go get a VAR tomorrow. Have a good night everyone and thx again for your time and advice.


----------



## the guy

In my case my old lady should have left me years ago when I started slapping her around, but then agian she took the easy way out and her bandaids were being used by men after men, while the whole time she stayed with me. Decieved me as I did the heavy lifting to be a better husband while her deciet and resentment grew.

My point is you can.t...you must never blame your self for the unhealthy choices someone else makes when a harder more honarably option was at hand.


----------



## the guy

experiment with your VAR, so you don't waste your time, make sure it works by putting it in your car 1st , you may find that the one you have is good for the bed room but you may need to get a higher quality one for her car.

so check it out then plant it


----------



## MattMatt

SC1 I wish you well. Hopefully you can get your wife back on side and your marriage back on track, if that's what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BobSimmons

SoConfused1 said:


> Not sure she has fake emails or facebook accounts. She keeps busy and *isn't on the computer that much and I am almost positive she cannot do those sorts of things at work. * From what I can gather and assume at this point, all contact has been through text and cell phone calls.
> 
> If we were not parents, adultery would for sure be a deal breaker. I feel though as parents it is imperative to try and work things out, but clearly our relationship will never be the same again.


First off throw all assumptions out the window. If you want to investigate thoroughly you throw every assumption out the window and start from zero.

Right now it's true you don't know zip from squat except who the OM and that's a great starting point. 

I find it amazing people don't think people can find a way around getting caught communicating. Chrome has an incognito function which allows you to surf without your history showing up. That's why you install the keylogger on the computer. VAR the car and install the software on the phone. She may also have a burner phone. I realize this is jumping to conclusions as to the depth of what is occurring but as I said before assume nothing, make sure that when the time comes to confront you have irrefutable evidence of what is happening so she can't wriggle her way out of it with the "just friends" line.

You have a jump start on this. Don't tip your hand early because it may just drive it underground, she seems canny as to covering her tracks. Be wary.


----------



## Robsia

I have only read the first page, but I found out my WH was texting a woman last November.

I made the classic error of confronting too soon. Of course, he swore up and down it was only texting and that they were "just friends".

Fast forward to last March - I found out that they were of course having an affair. In fact, at the very time of confronting him about the texts, it had already turned physical. He was booking hotels for them and everything.

Cheaters lie. Assume the worst.


----------



## SoConfused1

Im afraid I may have tipped them off. Since last evening my wife has been less careful
about leaving her phone laying around and leaves it face up. I also noticed another 15 minute phone call
they had yesterday that previously was unknown cuz the records yesterday didn't disclose the
phone number. She was out with my kids while this phone call occured!! I'm afraid I've really hurt my
chances of catching them now but I'm not stopping. 

But the time and effort it seems is required to do all this spying could distract 
me at work and at home. I don't want to lose my job or make things worse by becomming
an amateur spy. How do I avoid these complications?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

I feel some empathy for you brother.

Look you can make this as complicated or as simple as you want.

Stop, it now and insist on full transparency. You may not have the full picture of it now, but nothing would prevent you from putting a VAR into the car after. Nothing would stop you from saying your going to write down everything that happened then we are going to go down and get a polygraph, any lies are ground for a divorce. We can't control people but we can decide what role they will have in our lifes, you just have to pick what matters to you and stand your ground.

The only thing that would stop you now is fear. Your wife is engaged in some form of deception. Any consistent deception is enough to destroy a marriage. 

You will never know all the details. I can't remember every conversation I had yesterday much less last week, or last month. What you do know is there is a secret relationship between this man and your wife. Wether they have had sex a dozen times or none, it's all inappropriate.


----------



## SoConfused1

All I know is I need more details than I have right now. And if I conront her now and attempt to force an end to her EA that it might not work and it could just make things worse while I continue to track her every move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

You can't stop this from turning your life upside down, but you can be determined and as steady as possible in how you proceed. So, get a grip, make a plan, and take action. This will minimize damage at work.

Go to Best Buy or Radio Shack and buy a decent quality VAR. Follow the advice to velcro it in your W's car. You can buy two and set one up at home if she talks from there when you are not around. Install a GPS on her car if you can. Install a keylogger on her computer.

These three things - VAR, keylogger, gps. That's your plan for now. Then wait a few days to check your data. In the meantime, try to go about your business knowing that you've done everything you can, at least for now.

Steady as you go. Stay cold-blooded and power forward.


----------



## carolinadreams

If you are going to wait get those voice recorders going ASAP!

Alright if I was going to wait, I'd tried to fill up her time, so that there isn't a lot of solo time or errands. You want to make sure there aren't voids that can be filled in with him. No solo gym trips, or shopping, call her on her lunch. 

When does he call her? Call her then.

If she wants to go somewhere, go with her - don't offer - do it.


----------



## somethingelse

Get a VAR ASAP


----------



## SoConfused1

Well they haven't texted at all today. I'm out of the house now and still neither have sent a text today. I'm definitely getting the VAR and possibly a GPS device. I'm
not sure about the key logger cuz her only computer is a laptop provided by her employer and I'm not sure installing such software on it is a good idea or even legal. I'm also looking for something that will get me either the recovered deleted messages from her phone or something that can spy on her phone. She has an LG phone that doesn't have a SIM card and is not a smart phone. I did read the provider will grant access to actual message details with a court order and I'm going to inquire about this as well. 

Thx again for all your help everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

SoConfused1 said:


> Well they haven't texted at all today. I'm out of the house now and still neither have sent a text today. I'm definitely getting the VAR and possibly a GPS device. I'm
> not sure about the key logger cuz her only computer is a laptop provided by her employer and I'm not sure installing such software on it is a good idea or even legal. I'm also looking for something that will get me either the recovered deleted messages from her phone or something that can spy on her phone. She has an LG phone that doesn't have a SIM card and is not a smart phone. I did read the provider will grant access to actual message details with a court order and I'm going to inquire about this as well.
> 
> Thx again for all your help everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good start! Now stay focused and determined. It takes strength and nerves of steel to save a marriage from infidelity.


----------



## somethingelse

Keep us updated!


----------



## Robsia

Deleted - posted in wrong thread - sorry!!


----------



## MattMatt

SoConfused1 said:


> Well they haven't texted at all today. I'm out of the house now and still neither have sent a text today. I'm definitely getting the VAR and possibly a GPS device. *I'm
> not sure about the key logger cuz her only computer is a laptop provided by her employer and I'm not sure installing such software on it is a good idea or even legal. * I'm also looking for something that will get me either the recovered deleted messages from her phone or something that can spy on her phone. She has an LG phone that doesn't have a SIM card and is not a smart phone. I did read the provider will grant access to actual message details with a court order and I'm going to inquire about this as well.
> 
> Thx again for all your help everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right. That would be a bad idea.

However, if she is using company IT resources to facilitate her affair, that might -at some future point- be something to be raised with her employer.


----------



## Aunt Ava

You may find some helpful info here....
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology.html


----------



## SoConfused1

Juat out of curiosity, is it possible she's told a close friend or two? Should I even worry about that? Could she have told anyone in her family? Does it matter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

What phone does she have ? Most phones, you can recover deleted texts.

You said you have joint cards. So she will know if you buy the spying stuff.

Does she have access to your computer ?Your behavior towrads her might be giving you out. Try to act normal around her. Delete browsing history when you end posting. Even better, use incognito mode if you can


----------



## Aunt Ava

Here's another thread with lots of good info....
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html


----------



## SoConfused1

Its an LG phone Cosmos2. From what I've read it sounds like I cannot recover deleted material at least not on my own. Yes I do not want to purchase spy stuff because she will see that activity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

If you find yourself scrambling you may not have identfied and internalized your purpose.

is it:
1. Determine if there is innapropriate behaviour
2. Determine the extent of innaprropriate behaviour
3. Stop an affair or innappropriate behaviour
4. Save/Repair a marriage
5. Gather information prior to divorce or to make a determination of divorce

All of these things are discrete and different goals, that may overlap or may not.

In my case I was winging it. And intuitively put a stop to it. Now that was followed up with ongoing monitoring, and accountability. I didn't have all the information but I had enough.

Regardless of when and how you confront you are going to get trickle truthed, it's like a pathological tic that all wayward spouses seem to get, even though they know you know they will still conceal, minimize, and perhaps continue to with-hold until their ego can deal with it. I don't think they intend to keep lying they just cant stop. Once they get past the speed-bump you may find the trickle turns into a river though, be prepared.

If you are waiting for ironclad information and details you may never have it. What will you do then?

Is sex one time a deal-breaker? What about two? 

My point is we probably never have the full truth, so determine now what truths or bits of information you need to make the decisions you think you need to make.

What decisions can you not make now that you will be able to make with more information?

Information without a plan of action, is just information gathering. Do you even want to know all the details if you know something went down? Thankfully my mind-movies are pretty much all gone, I would not wish them on anyone - and the sex my WW engaged in was limitted to one laughable bit of fumbling.


----------



## Aunt Ava

I am sorry that you are in this situation, but you have been fortunate to find this forum. You will get some difficult posts, but you must be prepared for the worst. Sometimes in order to save a marriage you must be willing to lose it. 

Remember you are not responsible for her affair if the is one, you are only partially responsible for the problems in the marriage. If your wife was unhappy she had several different avenues she could have chosen. Do not allow her to blame-shift, or gas-light you. Take some time to read through some of the threads under "Coping with Infidelity", you will soon start recognizing the "cheaters script". You need to be prepared so when your wife starts spouting the same tired phrases you won't fall for it. 

Most posters have been where you now find yourself, we are on your side.


----------



## SoConfused1

Carolina - I believe I have already confirmed #1. Now I need to know the extent in order to answer #4. But I also want to stop this behavior/affair but from eveyones input it seems this has been happening for some time now and I would not be preventing anything but stopping something already in progress. But I don't know fo sure so I would prefer to prevent any physical activty if it is aboutto occur. If we end up in a divorce I would like as much info prior to that as well which hopefully I can gather quickly. 

One or two sexual encounters may not be a deal breaker but a prolonged and frequent sexual affair is almost for sure a deal breaker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

put me on the other side (dont do it) of early confrontation. just ask RDMU. If this is old, they hve already fu(ked. ive seen too many half azzed early confrontations only make the spouse take it underground and 100 times harder to detect. sorry for the blunt but its true. 

now, if you live in a no fault state which most are. get your confirmation and file divorce, then if she agrees to all harsh terms reconcile. never tell her you are considering reconciling at first. be mr pizzed off betrayed. never beg. never tell her she is your everything. you look weak when you do.

recommended VAR s.ony icdpx312. Rdmu used this to great success. the RCA ones he used first stunk. he got them from bestbu.y

he also used the ezoom from radio shack to great success. ezoom is a gps that reports live and plugs into the obd port.

where are you generically? US? if so what region? in the SE some states cheating means 0 alimony and adverse division of property.

honestly steel yourself, you odds of nothing are grim. you are about to do the hardest thing of your life. act normal knowing it is highly likely you wife has betrayed you.


----------



## carolinadreams

Gotcha, it's always good to know what we want rather than letting external forces just shove us around.

You are going to make it through this thing to the other side.

The more you read here, the angrier you will likely get for yourself, and for others. Keep watching at the narrow range of human behavior when people are engaged in deception, self deception, or infidelity. That's why people keep referring to scripts, people's responses are almost laughably predictable! Try to use that to your advantage.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

SoConfused1 said:


> Im afraid I may have tipped them off. Since last evening my wife has been less careful
> about leaving her phone laying around and leaves it face up. I also noticed another 15 minute phone call
> they had yesterday that previously was unknown cuz the records yesterday didn't disclose the
> phone number. She was out with my kids while this phone call occured!! I'm afraid I've really hurt my
> chances of catching them now but I'm not stopping.
> 
> But the time and effort it seems is required to do all this spying could distract
> me at work and at home. I don't want to lose my job or make things worse by becomming
> an amateur spy. How do I avoid these complications?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


VARs. Get e few of them. Velcro one under the seat of her car and leave one, or more in the area(s) she is likely to talk on her phone. If she talks out loud while texting you may get some info. If she has told a friend, or two, about what's going on, this is where the info goldmine will be.

Have a VAR on you when you confront her and leave one on in the house and take a ride somewhere. She'll more than likely call someone after you leave. If she does, you'll have a good idea where she stands.

DO NOT EVER tell here where, or how you got your information from. Even if she figures it out, don't confirm it. If you do find that she's cheated and she get's p1ssed about how she thinks you spied to get the info, TO BAD. Tell her if she had never cheated, she wouldn't of had this problem.

Hopefully is an EA and not a PA. Either way it's cheating, but to me once it's gone physical, there's wouldn't be much hope for me to R. I don't know about yourself.

Good luck and maintain your composure. The last thing you need is to start yelling, or crying in front of her. Do these things when you're alone, or with a close friend/family member.

I know it seems that we're preparing you for the worst, a full blow, on going PA. And we are. You don't know yet if it is, but it's better to treat it as such, than not to be ready and find out it is.

And make sure you don't leave yourself logged into T.A.M., to find out that your wife has been reading this thread.

Hang in there. No one want's to be here, but now that you are, just know that most of us have been here, some more than once, already. We know what you're going through. We want to see this work out as best as it possibly can for you and your family.


----------



## carolinadreams

You are going to be under a lot of stress while you are going through this and for a good while longer till it runs its course and you are stablizied.

I started taking multivitmains, B complex, lots of vitamin D, lots of magnesium, cleaned up diet added in tea (Black, and green), and started to go the gym.

It may be time to go the doctor for a checkup, my bloodwork was generally good, but my testosterone had taken a nosedive from the stress - there may have been some postmenopausal women with more test than me. I'm trying to correct it naturally first with stress reduction, good diet, and weight training (my deadlift and squats are shooting up), and walking - but if it doesn't normallize after next test I'm going to have my doctor put me on some Testosterone Replacement Therapy (you need testosterone it protects against heart disease, and just about all causes of mortality when its in normal range).


----------



## BobSimmons

SoConfused1 said:


> Carolina - I believe I have already confirmed #1. Now I need to know the extent in order to answer #4. But I also want to stop this behavior/affair but from eveyones input it seems this has been happening for some time now and I would not be preventing anything but stopping something already in progress. But I don't know fo sure so I would prefer to prevent any physical activty if it is aboutto occur. If we end up in a divorce I would like as much info prior to that as well which hopefully I can gather quickly.
> 
> One or two sexual encounters may not be a deal breaker but a prolonged and frequent sexual affair is almost for sure a deal breaker.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only take one encounter to contract HIV. That's for life. Your life.


----------



## weightlifter

btw. original poster. please ask to get this moved to private members area. you need 30 posts to get in. it keeps nosy cheating wives out. you do this bt private messaging a moderator.

we dont need another CIBS.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> I am not worried about being violent because I am not a violent person, but I do get worked up and probably will be loud screaming and all. Not sure I will be able to control it, not sure how any of this is going to come down. Maybe if I have enough proof before confrontation then I won't have as much anger as that will come out upon discovering the "smoking gun".
> 
> Ok, so if I could have prevented it isn't it still my fault? How can I look my kids in the eye and tell them anything else but I failed as a husband and father? This is horrible.


How do you figure you failed by not "preventing it?" Your wife is the one who committed adultery and that makes her a failure as a wife and a mother. The only possible way you could have prevented it would have been to overcome the programming of the matriarchy you were raised in and release your inner caveman. That's pooh-poohed, even by people on this board, but that's how you maintain attraction. You are blameless.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> No I didn't the book. Do I really need to read about something that has already happened and that I couldn't prevent?


Quit being fatalistic. Ruck up and get with the program. If you're going to reconcile with her, you need to understand the rules of female attraction to males and how to maximize that. If you're going to divorce your wife, that's very okay and I think it's usually the very best solution to the problem, but unless you plan on becoming gay, you're still going to need to know how to appeal to women.


----------



## Acabado

SoConfused1 said:


> Juat out of curiosity, is it possible she's told a close friend or two? Should I even worry about that? Could she have told anyone in her family? Does it matter?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Female waywards almost always have confidants, to cheer her up, to share details...
Many times we get the evidence by watching GF's chats, texts and emails.
And of course it matters. You should demand she get rid of toxic presences, people which influence badly your marriage. Imagine her best friend, the one who comes home often, look at your face, eat you food is the one encouraging this behavior, providing alibis and even her own place for them to meet. Would you alllow her to come back to your house? 
Once you get your intel and asuming R in in the table you must decide who is a "friend of the marriage" and who is not.


----------



## barbados

SoConfused1 said:


> Sexually activity hasn't changed mainly because it has almost been non-existent for a long time. /QUOTE]
> 
> Why have you been so accepting of not having a regular sexual relationship with your wife ?


----------



## hopeful 1905

I did put a recorder in my H backpack 14 hours man did I got some talk between those 2 iPhone = iMessage : have iTunes know the pass words Gotcha babe


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Juat out of curiosity, is it possible she's told a close friend or two? Should I even worry about that? Could she have told anyone in her family? Does it matter?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some women do confide in their friends about their A. Does your W have a close friend that you think she would tell?


----------



## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> Some women do confide in their friends about their A. Does your W have a close friend that you think she would tell?


She has a very close friend that she probably wouldn't tell, but there has been another friend that she texts and deletes those messages as well. Also, I believe this friend gave my wife the book 50 Shades of Grey to read. I don't know if that played any part in this I haven't read the book. But I suspect this friend knows something because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first. 

I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair. I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover. I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.


----------



## carolinadreams

SoConfused1 said:


> She has a very close friend that she probably wouldn't tell, but there has been another friend that she texts and deletes those messages as well. Also, I believe this friend gave my wife the book 50 Shades of Grey to read. I don't know if that played any part in this I haven't read the book. But I suspect this friend knows something because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first.
> 
> I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair. I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover. I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.


People are consumed with an attitude of entitlement, and want to see their friends get dirty too.

Based on my experience and reading this forum, suspicion of affair + Shades of Grey seems to have a 100% success rate of predicting at least one extramarital physical encounter.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> She has a very close friend that she probably wouldn't tell, but there has been another friend that she texts and deletes those messages as well. Also, I believe this friend gave my wife the book 50 Shades of Grey to read.


That's your girl.



SoConfused1 said:


> I don't know if that played any part in this I haven't read the book.


It's unreadable dreck.



SoConfused1 said:


> But I suspect this friend knows something because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first.


Yep, she's the one. 



SoConfused1 said:


> I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair.


She probably has her own affairs going.




SoConfused1 said:


> I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover. I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.


GNO? Men should never allow this to happen. They were each other's pickup partners; wingwomen.


----------



## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> That's your girl.
> 
> 
> 
> It's unreadable dreck.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, she's the one.
> 
> 
> 
> She probably has her own affairs going.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GNO? Men should never allow this to happen. They were each other's pickup partners; wingwomen.


I agree with this

And now I can say I'm in the same boat as you SoConfused
H is cheating on me as we speak. Losers these people


----------



## weightlifter

SoConfused1 said:


> Also, I believe this friend gave my wife the book 50 Shades of Grey to read. I don't know if that played any part in this I haven't read the book. But I suspect this friend knows something because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first.
> 
> Put it this way. 50 shades is RECOMMENDED READING on AM (Popular cheater site consisting of two womens first names) There is a very high correlation of cheaters and this evil book.
> 
> I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair. I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover. I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.
> 
> MASSIVE RED FLAG!!!!! She is likely the one who pushed or IS PUSHING your wife into affairs. WINGWOMAN!!!!!


Dude you are at like 10 red flags now. BRACE YOURSELF.

You have the VARS and GPS right? DUDE TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE HERE!!!

MESSAGE A MOD to get this moved into private members section.

edit: Somethingelse: He knows you know or are you being James (Jane) Bond?


----------



## warlock07

Gift her a new phone...Or buy her a new one when her current phone accidentally breaks


----------



## weightlifter

The script to a T.
Depressing sometimes.

Probability she "swears on the lives of her children" ?

Original poster. Her phone or work phone?


----------



## sandc

SoConfused1 said:


> She has a very close friend that she probably wouldn't tell, but there has been another friend that she texts and deletes those messages as well. Also, I believe this friend gave my wife the book 50 Shades of Grey to read. I don't know if that played any part in this I haven't read the book. But I suspect this friend knows something because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first.
> 
> I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair. I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover. I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.


Yeah, this woman is probably your wife's confidante. She has either had affairs of her own or is living vicariously through your wife. Hanging on to every detail your wife shares with her.


----------



## Acabado

VAR, spyware...


----------



## somethingelse

weightlifter said:


> Dude you are at like 10 red flags now. BRACE YOURSELF.
> 
> You have the VARS and GPS right? DUDE TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE HERE!!!
> 
> MESSAGE A MOD to get this moved into private members section.
> 
> edit: Somethingelse: He knows you know or are you being James (Jane) Bond?


I'm being James Bond..lady style


----------



## SoConfused1

I think my original ? has never been answered. Who can I talk to without making things awkward or possibly someone slipping up and letting the cat out of the bag?. Our families are close and our friends are mutual. And I don't want to bring this up at work. Any suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

Let me be fair and mention that this friends texts last night were harmless and not deleted. 

I did get a VAR but a GPS would require cc payment plus subsricption fees and these will for sure be noticed on our cc statements. There have only been only texts today between him and her and very few phone calls overall. I don't know what I'll get from the VAR. I NEED TO SEE THESE TEXTS but there is no way to recover deleted ones from what I've gathered. He does have an iPhone from what I remember can I spy on his phone even without access to it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

And these meetings with this friend weren't girls night out things at a bar just meeting for dinner I believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

I was looking at scanner software and if I can be hooked up to a computer, and it hasn't been overwritten too many times you may be able to recover it. It's going to likely take you at least 15 minutes to scan a phone, at which time she will probably be home also. 

For me as part of our reconciliation any concealed behavior was a dealbreaker. She's been a pane of glass, she had a little spurt of trickle-truth initially, but you can expect the shame to be overpowering once they comprehend what they have done to their self, their family, and you.


----------



## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Let me be fair and mention that this friends texts last night were harmless and not deleted.
> 
> I did get a VAR but a GPS would require cc payment plus subsricption fees and these will for sure be noticed on our cc statements. There have only been only texts today between him and her and very few phone calls overall. I don't know what I'll get from the VAR. I NEED TO SEE THESE TEXTS but there is no way to recover deleted ones from what I've gathered. He does have an iPhone from what I remember can I spy on his phone even without access to it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


then pay cash for a cheap retrievable GPS with a USB that tells you where it's been and for how long.


----------



## the guy

You are colvert and with that the best keep secrets ate btween you and your self. Gather the info then find a confident you can talk to. 

I think right now it way to risky to talk to any one about VARs and GPS and any of this business until you can expose it with valide proof. 

It so easy to be persuaded...lets face you didn;t even want to believe all this your self so I'm sure the ones that really love and care about you will also deny the unthinkable.

Keep gathering and then find that one person that you can confide in and that one person might be the one you *trusted* the most.

My thinking is if she is sleeping with your brother, father uncle best friend.....you have to get all the facts before you can trust anyone.

Ya I may be over the top here but my point is educate your self then find that one person you *know* you can trust.


Onced you have the facts not even your mother , priest or best friend can deny your of your new reality....but can see the truth and support you in your choices instead of messing with your head.


----------



## weightlifter

The answer to your title question is 
1) Noone
OR
2) An IC


----------



## SoConfused1

Forgive my stupidity but what's an IC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

IC = Individual Counselor or Counseling


----------



## SoConfused1

Thanks for clearing that up. So I went today and bought the ezoom gps trackers. I was so mad and just said F it I need to have this. Anyone got any ideas of how I will explain away the monthly subscription fees that will show up in our cc bill? I bought it with cash so at least I avoided that being seen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

Can you get a pre-paid card with cash, and use that to pay the subscription?

Sometimes I really despise having to think in a sneaky-weasily fashion in order to get to the bottom of stuff. I think it's why I like the direct confrontation better.


----------



## SoConfused1

I don't know, perhaps I could. Want to get it going tonight though because the time to track her is during her lunch break and I'd like to find out where she goes tomorrow. I suspect she was with him today as there seems to be a long gap in communications from her during that time. I'm listening to the VAR now but nothing yet. She got a call from her suspected female confidant in the morning but it was normal chit chat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

All the cash I'm spending lately could raise a red flag as well. It's been a long time since using an ATM before today. More activity will raise an eyebrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

I would imagine this thing will run it's course shortly enough. Most people aren't as good as deception as they think they are.


----------



## walkonmars

carolinadreams said:


> I would imagine this thing will run it's course shortly enough. Most people aren't as good as deception as they think they are.


Bingo.

By the time the bill arrives in the mail you will be dealing with WHAT was discovered - not the cost of doing so.


----------



## SoConfused1

Omg the VAR has paid off already. He's in the car with her and I've got it recorded!! My heart is pounding!!! I think I heard they missed each other. The radio is blocking their voices a bit though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

They totally said they missed each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

Im shaking listening to this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

Be cool brother, what ever you do make sure you are calm, collected, and don't threaten anyone.

Be very careful if you go driving soon. I remember when I first discovered my wife's messages with another man, my whole body was quiverring. 

Breath deeply, and keep your head.


----------



## carolinadreams

If you are going to confront, give away as little as possible, or at least hold one thing back. Force her to open up the flood gates, and don't give away knowledge of the VAR.

I don't know if you are a religious man, but I'm going to say a prayer for you that God grants you clarity, calm, and resolve.


----------



## SoConfused1

I'm not religious but thx that is very nice of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

They've just been chatting so far. I don't know what to expect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

That's the sad thing about affairs a lot of it is so lame and banal.


----------



## C-man

Agree with carolinadreams - you need to stay calm and collected. That is tough to do - but the worst thing is to let your emotions rule - you need to step back and evaluate what you've learned as well as what you want to do and what your objectives are. Get a game plan.

I would give your wife the opportunity to tell you the truth after you confront. Unfortunately, she's following the cheater's script and the script calls for lying and trickle truthing. That's why you need to gather the evidence. As carolinadreams recommends - keep the VAR a secret. The texts alone are enough of a smoking gun. If she lies or trickle truths go to the next step which is to expose.

Sorry you're here man...


----------



## SoConfused1

Do I still install the GPS and see what that tells?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

I don't know what to do yet. It's going to be next to impossible to keep my emotions and temper in check
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

It may be worth it, but it's just going to confirm locations. And it sounds like you have all the confirmation you need.

Are you going to confront, or gather more evidence?


----------



## carolinadreams

If you even think you are going to be half way violent perhaps you should have a family member come by for the confrontation.

Don't do anything that is going to hurt yourself or your family.


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Do I still install the GPS and see what that tells?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. If he is coming to meet her, it won't show anything but if she is going to meet him, you will find out.

If they sit in her car in the parking lot after work and she gets home late, then she comes home and tells yhou she was out shopping at the mall, you will know it was a lie.

You will be able to see where she actually goes vs. where she says she goes.


----------



## SoConfused1

Omg in the background is Bruno Mars singing "my baby's dancing with another man". Perfect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

Its all lies now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

When I read the things my wife had wrote to the other man, almost all of it was fabricated. She was creating a scenario where she could justify her infidelity.


----------



## SoConfused1

I can now hear soft moans. F$&@. This is awful I'm so crushed. She finished. How do I not use this evidence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

What do I do?!?! I'm ready to drag her out of bed and give her the third degree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

Brother this may be something you want to sleep on.

You have to decide for yourself, if you want to come back from this. Almost 6 months on my head is all over the place somedays.


----------



## walkonmars

Take a very deep breath and hold it for a few seconds....then slowly exhale. Repeat that twice. Do it again evey few minutes to get a little calmer. 

You can take control of your emotions. Yes you can!


----------



## SoConfused1

Are you kidding?!?!?!? My kid's favorite song is playing on the radio while my wife is fu#$% this guy. THIS IS AWFUL. AND I JUST YELLED OUT YOU *****!!


----------



## C-man

SoConfused - don't confront until you know what you want. Is this an absolute marriage deal breaker for you? If so, you confront and then you say "pack your bags". Try to calm down and think about what YOU want. Whatever you do - don't confront with out of control emotions. You might do something you regret - OR - you might be more susceptible to trickle truthing and false promises. I would leave the VAR evidence for a time if and when you absolutely need it. EG - if you confront with just the texting evidence - her reaction can tell you a lot. She may lie and claim that it was "just" texting. Or (less likely) she will confess everything.


----------



## SoConfused1

Someone help. How can I sleep on this? I won't be able to sleep for the rest of my life.


----------



## SoConfused1

Now the post coital I missed you. F Them!!!!


----------



## SoConfused1

Didn't last very long. Heck I would always go much longer than that


----------



## SoConfused1

alright I need serious advice on confrontation.


----------



## carolinadreams

It will get better. You are a man, and you can't control other people but you can control yourself.


----------



## SoConfused1

How am I going to be able to work tomorrow.


----------



## carolinadreams

Confused it sounds like you want to confront to save your marriage. I would tell her I know you've been sleeping with Mr-X, and you are going to write out a timeline for me right here and now. Remember any threat of divorce etc only works once if you don't carry through with it. Don't leave your house, and I may suggest running the VAR while you confront?


----------



## carolinadreams

SoConfused1 said:


> How am I going to be able to work tomorrow.


I would call in sick if at all possible.


----------



## carolinadreams

If you are going to contact the other man's wife in order to break this thing, tonight would be the time to do it, in order to prevent any collaboration or story matching.


----------



## tom67

Expose to his wife he will drop your w to save his @ss.


----------



## carolinadreams

Your kids shouldn't be traumatized by this if at all possible, if you can shield them (from the confrontation).


----------



## SoConfused1

I don't know if he is married. I don't know much about him other than he's banging my wife and I know his cell #. It's too late in the evening to call someone now anyway. How do I ask about to see if he has a wife without looking suspicious or people asking why I want to know?


----------



## SoConfused1

Right now I don't have a clue what I want to do. For my kids I know what I want to do but ight now I can't stand the thought of my wife let alone the sight of her or hearing her voice. She's betrayed me deeply and I don't know if there is a way back.


----------



## SoConfused1

We are supposed to have dinner out Sat. night while the kids are away, would be the perfect time to confront her because I don't want the kids to hear or see anything.


----------



## carolinadreams

Intellius possibly if you have his full number. Sometimes people put their cellphone numbers into facebook or you can just type the number straight into google and get information.

Stop being so polite, it's never too late too call and say "your husband has been sleeping with my wife and it needs to stop">


----------



## SoConfused1

Of course she is supposed to have some "ladies night" out with school moms on Fri night. probably gonna bang him.


----------



## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> Stop being so polite, it's never too late too call and say "your husband has been sleeping with my wife and it needs to stop">


I don't have his wife's number


----------



## walkonmars

Spokeo

Or if you know his name: public data


----------



## bryanp

If the roles were reversed would your wife let you sleep soundly after what you found? By the way you realize you will need to get tested for STD's now.


----------



## weightlifter

Sorry for it.

They did it in the car?

Damn I hate being right most of the time.

Do the kids have school tomorrow?

If so AND YOU ARE IN A NO FAULT STATE, go ahead and confront. Tell her you know she fvcked the man in her car at this time... DONT LET ONTO THE VAR. Let her think it was a PI!!!

Have the var in your pocket to protect yourself.


----------



## alte Dame

I doubt you will be able to keep it together for the rest of the week. You have enough evidence to confront her. It would definitely be good to expose to the OW before you do it, that's for sure. If that's not possible, though, my own inclination would be to get one of her suitcases and take it to her. Tell her the two of you are going to talk and that it will be quiet and won't disturb the children. Tell her that you know she's been f*cking another man and that she will be leaving while you consider what you will do. She needs to pack and get out for the moment.

The guys here will probably argue against this & I respect that. This is just what I would do.


----------



## jim123

SoConfused1 said:


> I don't have his wife's number


Sorry to hear. Do what is what is best for you. If you want confront now, go ahead as long as you can keep control.

The most important thing is to get control. Ask her to leave. Expose the affair far and wide. Tell your parents and friends. Get support.

Once you have control, then start deciding.

So see an attorney and get your options. Also go see an IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

He needs to know if he is in a fault or no fault state!


----------



## carolinadreams

Confused, make sure you dont beg, and lay down the law, don't ask tell.

I think until you have cut out the other man, I would be careful about deliberately pushing your wife out the door. 

If you can not absolutely find the mans information, you have his number and you can tell him if there is one more single contact from him to her, you will be filing a civil lawsuit and exposing him as widely as you can to damage him as much as you can.

That's more or less what I did, and we haven't heard peep one out of the OM.


----------



## SoConfused1

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed would your wife let you sleep soundly after what you found? By the way you realize you will need to get tested for STD's now.


Of course not, but I don't want to wake up the kids. I need to calm down a bit and prepare myself anyway.


Yes I probably do, but since we haven't had sex in probably 6 months hopefully I haven't contracted anything but I will get tested. Oh boy that's gonna be an awkward Dr. appointment


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## carolinadreams

Smart man, you can always control yourself!


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## aug

Make a copy of the recording now. Save it somewhere safe. Away from the house so your wife does not find it.


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## SoConfused1

I'm not begging for anything. 

I did find some info on OMs place of employment, or his last place of employment at best. 

I really want to rat her out to her family, but they have very difficult lives right now in the immediate family and multiple divorces in the extended family. Telling my parents is going to ruin them. Ruin everything. My dad's health has been suffering and I don't want any more stress put on him and my mom will break down I just know it.


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## SoConfused1

This is awful, I feel worse for others right now. She's really gone and f'd everything up.


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## jim123

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm not begging for anything.
> 
> I did find some info on OMs place of employment, or his last place of employment at best.
> 
> I really want to rat her out to her family, but they have very difficult lives right now in the immediate family and multiple divorces in the extended family. Telling my parents is going to ruin them. Ruin everything. My dad's health has been suffering and I don't want any more stress put on him and my mom will break down I just know it.


Exposure is a great tool
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp

Why have you not been intimate for 6 months?


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## SoConfused1

bryanp said:


> Why have you not been intimate for 6 months?


Kids, life, etc. I stopped trying and she never would initiate.


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## SoConfused1

jim123 said:


> Exposure is a great tool
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you suggesting I let his employer know what happened? If so, how?


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## Will_Kane

You have your evidence. You can divorce your wife over the cheating and KNOW you were right. Or you can reconcile. It's up to you. But she can't lie to you any longer. You KNOW.

If the kids are asleep, NOW is as good a time as any to confront your wife. I'm assuming you have some modicum of self-control.

Go get your wife's panties from today and see if they are still unwashed and still contain any obvious fluids. If so, get them and put them on the kitchen table.

Get a sheet of paper and write out a few points you want to tell your wife. Then wake your wife up and tell her that there is something you must talk with her about immediately, your marriage and future depends on it. Tell her you would rather the kids not hear this. Ask her to keep it down and talk reasonably. If you can keep the VAR in your pocket and record your confrontation with your wife without erasing the previous evidence, do it.

1. I KNOW you are cheating on me with so-and-so. I have INDISPUTABLE evidence. I am NOT going to tell you what it is. I AM saving it to show all of our family and friends, as well as the divorce court judge, should you decide to try to deny this any longer.

2. I don't know whether or not I will be divorcing you. If you come clean and tell me the truth, I MIGHT not. If you continue to lie to me, I definitely WILL.

3. These are my conditions for staying married to you:

a. Tell the truth about the affair without me having to use the evidence which, by the way, did I mention this before, is ABSOLUTELY INDISPUTABLE. If I catch you in another lie, I will use the evidence I have at a time and place of my choosing to destroy you and destroy him.

b. Cease all contact with the other man. Sit down right now and handwrite a no contact letter to the other man. "Other Man, I am terribly ashamed of my behavior and feel horrible for having risked losing the love of my life, my husband. Do not ever attempt to contact me again. If you do, I will file harassment charges against you. Signed, Wife Name." That is all the contact you will have with him for the rest of your life.

c. Get a new phone and change your phone number. Change your email address. Block other man on Facebook and all social media accounts. Give me all passwords and access to all communication devices and accounts and allow me to check whenever I need to. This includes work accounts. Never delete anything from anywhere again, including browser history, messages, emails, texts.

d. No going out socially without me. Girls night out Friday is canceled. You must let me know where you are 24/7 and answer my calls immediately when I call.

e. She will get tested for all STDs and give you the results.

If she starts telling you the truth, let her keep going until you have it all, or as much of it as you are going to get.

Don't believe her unless she tells you this affair dates back to at least the first sign that you noticed. I would assume this has been going on since the guy did work for you and has never stopped. Assume they have had sex dozens, maybe hundreds of times. When she starts telling you it was only once, today was the only time, tell her that you know that is a lie.

Tell her the panties are NOT the evidence you are talking about. It is something else much more damning and there is NO DISPUTING IT.

When she is done telling you her story, it will not be the full truth. Push as much as you want to get more. Don't believe it if it doesn't make sense. Never let her know that you believe her. When she has finished, ask her, "so you are sticking to that story? It looks like we will be going to get a divorce." Then go to bed. Let your wife sleep on the couch. Better yet, tell her you would like to pack her bags and bring her over to the other man. Tell her, let's call him up right now and tell him that I'm bringing you over with all your baggage.

Your confrontation will not be perfect, no one's is. If you lose your cool, it's OK, just calm back down and stick to your demands. After you confront, your wife either will throw other man under the bus and beg for forgiveness, or she'll blame you and say she wants a divorce.

Don't let her tell her you are controlling. If she tries to, tell her that you can't control her, only yourself, and what you are willing to accept and not accept in a marriage. And you are not willing to accept her cheating.

If she says she needs privacy, tell her privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy, and there is no place for secrecy in the marriage. You vowed to share your lives, why would she need to hide her communications with others from you unless they were detrimental to you?


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## bryanp

What do you think her reaction will be when you confront her? Be prepared that she will put the blame entirely on you.


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## SoConfused1

I was honestly going to leave the house and let her have to deal with the kids and all that by herself. Bad idea? I hate the thought of leaving them though.


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## SoConfused1

On a side note, finally knowing has helped. The unknown was tearing my apart inside. I couldn't concentrate at work and I felt awful wondering what she was doing. Can't say I feel much better but I do feel a little better just knowing now. Is that weird?


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Of course not, but I don't want to wake up the kids. I need to calm down a bit and prepare myself anyway.
> 
> 
> Yes I probably do, but since we haven't had sex in probably 6 months hopefully I haven't contracted anything but I will get tested. Oh boy that's gonna be an awkward Dr. appointment


Let her get tested and give you the results. If she's clean, you're clean.


----------



## aug

Dont leave the home if you want good custody terms of your kids. It could be considered abandonment. 

Instead, tell your wife to leave. She cheated, she leaves.


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## SoConfused1

Thank you Will_Kane. Great stuff. I will definitely bring a lot of that to the table. Not sure about the panties, she still may be wearing them as she sleeps now.


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## SoConfused1

So I threaten her with telling her family by giving them the evidence in order to get the truth out of her?


----------



## SoConfused1

bryanp said:


> What do you think her reaction will be when you confront her? Be prepared that she will put the blame entirely on you.


I'm not sure how she will react. She will be shocked that I know which will be great. My guess is she will try to shift blame on me. I know I haven't been the best husband in the world lately so she has something to go with there. I'm hoping she begs for forgiveness because it will at least be somewhat satisfying and also show me that she wants our life together to continue. If she just says fine lets get a D, that will be a kick in the crotch. And I already got one of those a short time ago.


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## SoConfused1

Will_Kane said:


> Let her get tested and give you the results. If she's clean, you're clean.


But isn't it possible that HIV will not turn up in tests for 6 months or more? My god I hope they used a condom.


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## bryanp

Do you honestly think two lovers screwing in a car are going to use a condom? Your kidding right?


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## SoConfused1

bryanp said:


> Do you honestly think two lovers screwing in a car are going to use a condom? Your kidding right?


You just made me even more sick than I already am. But no I didn't think they did but I hope they did.


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## SoConfused1

Don't I have to tell her family regardless or what happens. I can't trust her to tell them the truth. Plus I know for sure her parents have used his services. I would think that they would want to know so they hopefully don't any more.


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## SoConfused1

Here's the thing though, all I know is they texted somewhat frequently and had sex once in her car because I recorded it. I don't know where they were, I don't know how often they've done it and how long this dates back. I can keep saying she's lying but I'll never know how far the truth goes.


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## SoConfused1

I'm listening to their "pillow" talk now and she is talking about our kids. I'm so disgusted.


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## carolinadreams

Once you hear what you need to hear, at some point you need to stay away from that tape or you will punish yourself.

You keeping it together over there?


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> So I threaten her with telling her family by giving them the evidence in order to get the truth out of her?


I don't like the word threaten, but basically, yes, you use it as a tool to get a confession out of her.

You want to get as much truth as you can out of her so you can decide whether or not you want to reconcile.

You also want to end the affair, in case you DO decide to reconcile.

I don't think you can consider whether to reconcile or not unless you know the depth of her betrayal.


----------



## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> Once you hear what you need to hear, at some point you need to stay away from that tape or you will punish yourself.
> 
> You keeping it together over there?


Surprisingly yes. Maybe cuz its late and I'm trying to make sure I have copies of this stuff.

I keep thinking how awful it is that my kid's favorite song was playing while they were together. How could she? 

I'l be a mess tomorrow. It's been harder on me during the day. I think I am going to take off early tomorrow and gather my thoughts and prepare for confrontation. 

Thanks for reading my blather and helping me out. I really appreciate it.


----------



## SoConfused1

Will_Kane said:


> I don't like the word threaten, but basically, yes, you use it as a tool to get a confession out of her.
> 
> You want to get as much truth as you can out of her so you can decide whether or not you want to reconcile.
> 
> You also want to end the affair, in case you DO decide to reconcile.
> 
> I don't think you can consider whether to reconcile or not unless you know the depth of her betrayal.



Good points, but I'm thinking I need to tell her parents because if I kick her out she will most likely go there, or to her sibling's house so I don't want her talking trash about me and they not having the truth from me. Again, so confused.

And yes the depth of the betrayal will obviously determine how I want to proceed.

And thank you as well for reading my tale tonight and helping me out. Much appreciated. I needed somewhere to turn and I'm glad I found this site. Had I not, I would not have discovered the truth.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Don't I have to tell her family regardless or what happens. I can't trust her to tell them the truth. Plus I know for sure her parents have used his services. I would think that they would want to know so they hopefully don't any more.


It's up to you whether you want to tell her family about her cheating. Many here highly recommend it. I generally am not in favor of it UNLESS your wife refuses to end the affair and re-commit to the marriage.

Of course, if you are going to divorce, there is no reason to lie to cover up for her. She likely is going to blame you, so you are going to let them know she cheated if you go to divorce.

You also definitely will want to tell them if she refuses to end the affair or initially agrees but then starts it up again.

But if she does immediately end the affair and re-commit to you and does everything in her power to heal you and work on your marriage, you have to be the judge as to whether telling everyone about it will help your marriage or hurt it.


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## carolinadreams

SoConfused1 said:


> Surprisingly yes. Maybe cuz its late and I'm trying to make sure I have copies of this stuff.
> 
> I keep thinking how awful it is that my kid's favorite song was playing while they were together. How could she?
> 
> I'l be a mess tomorrow. It's been harder on me during the day. I think I am going to take off early tomorrow and gather my thoughts and prepare for confrontation.
> 
> Thanks for reading my blather and helping me out. I really appreciate it.


If you are the way I was, I was probably coasting on adrenalin from the anger, once that wore off I felt wrecked. I still recommend cutting off the other man as place of refuge, particularly if you think you want to salvage this.


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## SoConfused1

I see, I'd rather not tell anyone unless I have to. But I also have to defend myself.

The thing is that we have a bunch of family events coming up and I clearly don't want awkwardness to rule those days. It will be awkward for my wife and I but that's fine.


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## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> If you are the way I was, I was probably coasting on adrenalin from the anger, once that wore off I felt wrecked. I still recommend cutting off the other man as place of refuge, particularly if you think you want to salvage this.


Do I contact him before confronting my wife? I'd rather she come into this not being aware of anything that way she doesn't have time to formulate lies before I bring on the questions.


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## SoConfused1

I was so angry at work today and even more so when I left. I let out a couple of huge F bombs in my car which helped calm me down. My heart was racing and I was shaking tremendously while listening to the evidence but now I'm calm. The wine helps too.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Good points, but I'm thinking I need to tell her parents because if I kick her out she will most likely go there, or to her sibling's house so I don't want her talking trash about me and they not having the truth from me. Again, so confused.
> 
> And yes the depth of the betrayal will obviously determine how I want to proceed.
> 
> And thank you as well for reading my tale tonight and helping me out. Much appreciated. I needed somewhere to turn and I'm glad I found this site. Had I not, I would not have discovered the truth.


I agree, if you kick her out and she goes to her parents, you may have to tell them to prevent her from telling them lies about you. Also, to keep her from openly carrying on the affair from their house with this guy who she will tell them is her "good friend" who is helping her with her issues with you. 

If she tells you the truth about the affair, or even if she doesn't, I would not kick her out but make her sleep on the couch or in a separate bedroom. If you are going to work on your marriage, it is best that you stay in the same house and get control of the situation. End the affair and be able to monitor it. If she agrees to it. She can choose to leave you if she wants. If she does leave, if you do kick her out, she probably will screw the other man a few more times while she's staying at her mother's house before coming home and, for some reason, I think the screwing she does after you find out about the affair hurts more than the screwing she did before you had found out.

How will you know she's telling the truth? It will make sense. You know this guy did work for you, you know when he did it. Assume the affair started back at that point in time.

You have witnessed for the past couple weeks a very consistent, steady pattern of texts between her and this guy. Her affair is a stable relationship. New affairs are not steady like that.

How long ago did the guy spend a lot of time alone with your wife? That is when the affair would have started. Keep pushing for her to confess to that. If she tells you different, that it started last week or last month or even three months ago, you will know that is definitely a lie because her behavior does not match up to that. You don't have to tell her that. You just tell her, I know that is a lie. It is likely she WILL lie, all the cheaters do, but over the course of the next few days, you must remain steadfast that you know it is a lie.

If she is like most cheaters, as long as you remain steadfast, show her that you are moving on without her and that you KNOW she is lying, she will give you one trickle of truth after another so that, over several days, you will get the whole story. Or enough of it that it makes some sense to you.

At some point, you can ask her to write it down, give you a timeline of the affair, when the first inappropriate comment started, the first time they touched, kissed, had sex, how often, where. Then tell her that if the story doesn't make sense, and even if it does, you may want her to take a polygraph.

You can try telling her that your marriage may be able to survive the affair, but it definitely will NOT be able to survive the lies afterward. And that is absolutey true if you look at the stories of many betrayed spouses here, it was the lying after the affair that killed any chance of reconciliation, not the affair itself.

This all is assuming that she is going to agree to end the affair and re-commit to the marriage. She may not. She may immediately tell you "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and "I want a divorce."

Or she may tell you, "I need space" to figure things out, which is cheater-speak for "I want to live apart from you for a while so I can explore this affair and see if I want him or you."


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## carolinadreams

I'd make it close together. 

When you confront your wife, you may hear her say some weird things or hurtful things, let it roll off your back. If your wife is a basically decent person who made some bad choices, her brains going to be misfiring from the guilt, and she may be overwhelmed by shame. Don't let her redirect, keep the focus on the infidelity and how its going to stop.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I see, I'd rather not tell anyone unless I have to. But I also have to defend myself.
> 
> The thing is that we have a bunch of family events coming up and I clearly don't want awkwardness to rule those days. It will be awkward for my wife and I but that's fine.


This is the wrong thing to focus on. Your house is on fire and you are worried that you won't be able to watch your favorite show on TV tonight.

Focus on your marriage. Whatever family events you have coming up, whatever "awkwardness" will exist, will be NOTHING compared to dealing with your wife's adultery. You will look back someday and and say, "what was I thinking about, worried about feeling awkward at a family event while my marriage and family were in extreme crisis?"

I'm not saying to tell them if you don't have to, but if saving your marriage calls for it, do it, and don't worry about any awkwardness at a family event.


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## carolinadreams

I made my wife tell her mother, and in retrospect wish I hadn't. Found out mother-in-law had been undermining our marriage for year, asking if she really loved me, why doesn't he do this, why doesn't he do that. More or less made my wife question our entire marraige, even though she was fundamentally happy- wife more or less said her mother was the cause of over half over arguments. Found out a month after D-Day mother in law asked "is he still holding that affair against you". 

Mother-in-law is a classic narcissist!

With regards to awkwardness, you are probably never going to be embarrassed by anything again in your life after this, once you cope with infidelity most stuff just seems trivial.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Do I contact him before confronting my wife? I'd rather she come into this not being aware of anything that way she doesn't have time to formulate lies before I bring on the questions.


I would not bother contacting the other man. It is not likely he will give you any satisfaction or tell you any bit of truth.

Find out his wife's contact information, and contact her. 
Let her know what is going on, do not tell his wife exactly what you know, just tell her that you have indisputable evidence of the affair. If you give his wife exactly what you have, she probably will tell him exactly what the evidence is, and he will then tell your wife, who then only will tell you what she KNOWS you already know. You want your wife to think you know more than you do, so she confesses to more. 

At the point you contact his wife, your wife hopefully will have confessed a lot more than you already know, and so you can tell his wife what your wife confessed to.

Do it after you confront your wife, but in close proximity, if possible. Do NOT tell your wife you are doing it. If your wife agrees to no contact, then you will be able to see pretty quickly whether it really is no contact, because he will immediately contact your wife to ask her what's going on.

Another thing about no contact, should your wife agree to work on the marriage, is she has to understand exactly what no contact is. Many cheaters have their own ideas, much different than yours. Let her know that if he tries to contact her in any way, she should not respond and tell you immediately. If he texts her, she ignores it and calls you immediately and does not delete it. If he approaches her face to face, she walks away and leaves without speaking to him and tells you immediately.


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## Will_Kane

You may be afraid of losing your wife, afraid of hurting your kids, and losing the way of life you've known and been fairly content in for years.

This is completely understandable.

If your wife senses you are afraid of losing these things, she will use them to get YOU to back down.

You have to go into this thing projecting NO FEAR, that you are willing to lose all of the above rather than go on living a lie and being cheated on. That YOUR WIFE was the one who created this situation, and SHE, and only SHE, has the power to make it better. If she wants to continue her affair and continue to lie to you, then anything that results is HER FAULT, not yours.


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## SoConfused1

I'm not worried about me and her being awkward but her family and my family being awkward. This isn't about watching TV this is about family vacations and important events that are already scheduled and shouldn't change because they aren't about us but about others. These were supposed to be very happy times and her actions have jeapordized that. I don't want my kids to feel anything different or anyone else to feel different. Our families are going to need the great things that are planned ahead because life hasn't been good to them lately and I just don't know what's going to happen and how this could adversely affect my family and hers. But again, my marriage and my kids come first so I understand that. I just feel awful about all of this, obviously and I have so many emotions and thoughts and questions running through me it's scary. I need a shoulder and there isn't one here now just keys on a laptop keyboard. And while I very much appreciate you guys helping me out I could really use a hug right now from someone I love.


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## carolinadreams

You know your parents, but you might be surprised it might strengthen them to support you.

My mom ended up supporting my wife, once she realized how toxic her own mother was. 

One way or the other it can get better brother.


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## SoConfused1

At what point is it necessary to pull out the actual recording? I mean if she isn't going to fess up to it then why should I even bother with her and I should just plan to move on and keep the evidence for when it really counts right? Or do I play it for her anyway so she at least finally confesses to at least that one act.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm not worried about me and her being awkward but her family and my family being awkward. This isn't about watching TV this is about family vacations and important events that are already scheduled and shouldn't change because they aren't about us but about others. These were supposed to be very happy times and her actions have jeapordized that. I don't want my kids to feel anything different or anyone else to feel different. Our families are going to need the great things that are planned ahead because life hasn't been good to them lately and I just don't know what's going to happen and how this could adversely affect my family and hers. But again, my marriage and my kids come first so I understand that. I just feel awful about all of this, obviously and I have so many emotions and thoughts and questions running through me it's scary. I need a shoulder and there isn't one here now just keys on a laptop keyboard. And while I very much appreciate you guys helping me out I could really use a hug right now from someone I love.


Whether they find out or not is up to her and whether she ends the affair and tells you the truth. You wouldn't even be in this situation if it weren't for her cheating. It isn't your job, or your place, to absorb all the lies and the pain from her cheating, for you to stuff it all down while she gets to act like nothing happened. 

She can prevent you from telling her family by agreeing to end the affair and work on the marriage. If she doesn't, then there isn't much you can do about it. I would not lie for her and pretend nothing is wrong if she still is continuing to cheat on you, refusing to end the affair, while these family events are occurring. Your family would want to be there to support you if she was still cheating on you and refusing to stop.

It is a basic flaw of betrayed spouses to try to make everything "all right" for everyone else, at their own expense.

Trust me from experience and from reading these threads, you do NO ONE a favor by doing that. It just prolongs and makes worse the entire situation, everything gets distorted, it's just unnatural. The truth will set you free.

Anyway, you are not at the bridge yet. Your wife may agree to end the affair and tell you most of the truth. Telling the families is only IF she doesn't.


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## SoConfused1

Understood. Well I think I really need to get to bed now. Will try to work tomorrow but probably not a full day. Thanks again you guys, this has helped quite a bit.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> At what point is it necessary to pull out the actual recording? I mean if she isn't going to fess up to it then why should I even bother with her and I should just plan to move on and keep the evidence for when it really counts right? Or do I play it for her anyway so she at least finally confesses to at least that one act.


I would never play it for her. She gets to wonder how you found out for the rest of her life. Plus, you may need the VAR again six weeks or six months from now, once the storm blows over.

If you ever are going to play it, it would be to her family if they don't believe you while you are well into the process of divorce.

Why are you thinking she won't confess? She may initially deny, but if you stay the course, which will be easy for you to do because you actually do KNOW for a fact that she's cheating, she WILL confess. She will not think it was today's episode alone unless you somehow lead her to believe that's all you have.


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## dgtal

Dont reveal your source
Tell her you got it from a PI
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

If you need to give a few details so she knows you know, tell her you know it's with the other man, use his name, tell her you know that they have met up for sex at lunch time, tell her you know it's been going on a while, that it's not some new thing. Don't mention the car or where they did it or anything else. What you would really like her to believe, is that you hired a private investigator.

If she asks you how you know or what you have, answer her question with "wouldn't you like to know" or "that's for me to know and you to find out" or "don't worry, I know quite a bit, so why don't you just stop lying" and give her a big smile when you say it.

Tell her you are in no rush to reveal your evidence, you don't want to turn both your family and hers against her if you don't have to.


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## weightlifter

Agree with Will Kane on most but not all. YOU NEED TO OUT HER or she will "out" you with lies!!!! I would say the POSSIBILITY of reconcilliation not promise it.

You NEED to out her to the following: Both Parents, and friends you are in regular very contact with. Others are optional. NEVER reveal a VAR. If you decide to reconcile you will need it again to check.

What country?
IF US:
If so what region?
If SE US what state? (For fault determination)

How old are you?

Go see a doctor after confront!!!! He will give you meds. YOU NEED THEM. YOU HAVE PTSD!

Understand also. You have been fully assaulted in two areas not one. Your ego and your heart. To even begin you must understand this.

You will need a list of questions to ask her to get yourself closure. PRINT THEM.
Here is a potential list. I suggest all these questions plus any you can think of. These are painful but will give closure because THEY ALREADY HAPPENED!!!

When she says "you snooped, thats not your business", you say "DAMN RIGHT I DID, YOU ARE MY BUSINESS WHEN YOU SAID I DO. My wife only had an EA and pulled that one. I rather like my answer. She was still pissed but it shut her up on that one.

(SIC) numbers are screwy because I pulled them from a note list I use.

1) Can you even deal with your wife well enough to get back to a functional marriage? You will NEVER EVER get back to 100% trust. Given your wifes actions Ill guess the best you will ever get back to is roughly 80% and that will tkae 2 to 5 YEARS. If not Likely D.

2) Did she come COMPLETELY CLEAN and admit everything including times, quantities, dates, and practices? If not, likely D. Dont use trickle truth phrase here that could lead her to TAM. PSUH PUSH PUSH BREAK HER!!!!! HOW YOU GOT THE INFO IS NOT HER BUSINESS. NEVER GIVE UP THE VAR!

3) Did she admit affair to ALL close friends and family? Im not as gung ho on public other than putting Bob on cheaterville WITH PROOF!!! If not likely D.

4) Can YOU deal with tracking her for the rest of your life?? If not, likely D.

5) Can SHE deal with the fact she is on a LIFETIME of BEING TRACKED ***HARDCORE***? note we dont even get to what she wants until this one! Dont fall for your insecurity bit... You have every ****ing right on earth to be insecure about her until death separates you or the courts do. If not likely D.

5) Can she deal with NC on ANY man you dont know and especially him. A burner phone found will be a full admission of guilt as will ANY contact with a strange man NOT brought immediately to your attention. Note He WILL try. She is OK if she says. "OM made a new email and tried to contact me." (In fact if she does that 1 minute after receiving it you should thank her for working on the marriage.) If not likely D.

Random things.

You will need a typed list of questions to ask her and you will need everything. If you cant ask them due to your emotions have a marriage councilor on speed dial for her admissions, or use a truly trusted friend, sibling, whoever who can dispassionately ask these questions if you cant. Your heart is going to be beating 120+ BPM. Even prepared with an IRON MAN ATTITUDE you are going to be a mess. Be a dominant I wont take a like mess and NEVER BEG OR PLEAD. Have water for both of you as BOTH your mouths will go dry instantly. 
Timeline questions
1) Was the work done TRULY your first contact?

3) When was your first inkling of attraction?

4) First inappropriate talk (note 4 thru 10 may have some duplicate answers)

5) First inappropriate touch (through clothes)

6) First kiss

7) First petting (under clothes)

8) First nudity (Possibly sexting)

9) First sexual contact (fingering, nipple kissing etc)

10) First PIV.

12) Did you bring him into our home? and in our marital bed?

14) NAME ANYONE ELSE WHO KNOWS!!!! this one EXTREMELY important. THEY MUST BE PURGED!!!! I know you think the others are innocent but it must be proved!!! women are remarkably two faced on this. a non cheating woman will go to the grave knowing her BF is cheating. Yes there is correlation of mutual cheating but it happens one sided too.

Some to many of the following she will truly not have been a participant in

17) Am I going to find naked pics of you on the internet? happens alot!

18) Did you take pics or video? happens ALOT

19) Did you flash for him on your phone cam? happens alot

20) Did you sext? happens alot

21) Do you have a second phone? happens alot

22) Explain ALL methods of communication.

23) Have you been to his house?

24) Additional from you

LAST question. "Are there any other men?, Understand R is a possibility but if I find another man or large omission it will reopen my devastating mental wounds. At that point I will tell EVERYONE YOU KNOW. Not just family and close friends, THE WHOLE EFFING WORLD!!!!!

Dont discount the pics and video part.

If she absolutely wont admit it OUT her to all the above mentioned. Initiate D. She is lost.

OK now the pep talk and yea it starts grim as Ill assume the worst.
She loves the other man. You D. Here is your timeline. Time will vary but there is a (MUCH NICER) script here too. Even Omniferous seems to be turning the corner.
4/10/2013. She loves him. D
4/11/2013. YOU JOIN A GYM AND WORK OUT WITH WEIGHTS. JUST DO IT DAMMIT! TRUST ME!!!
+15 days. Functional again. SAD. But functional. Begin non-sexual socialization increase. THIS IS DELIBERATE. Go to whatever you are comfortable with. HOUSE PARTIES ROCK.
+30 days. You go to your first house party. You are functional
+37 days. You go to another house party. You chat up a girl. She is fully aware of what you are doing. She sees the results of your gym membership. She puts up ZERO resistance. DUDE just go fvck her. It will have an AMAZING affect on you. Random poon is SUPERGLUE for your shattered ego
+44 days. Another house party. No luck on chatting up but you find yourself strangely, OK... almost, maybe not quite happy but you will take it.
+51 days Another hook up. EGO repair complete. Heart still sore but you can push it way. Heart repair at this point will go MUCH MUCH faster without the ego in the way. You date a couple times. Nothing comes of it
+100 days. You met this girl... she has... possibilities
+160 days. You say I love you. She says it back kissing you hard. You look into her eyes and see no guile, no guilt, only love and the pretty smile of a younger hotter woman. YOUNGER AND HOTTER IS far far the best revenge.
+?? whenever, yea. Odds are, you will marry again.
This time you chose better. TAM HAS MADE YOU FAR FAR STRONGER!!!

Read the top link in my signature. Its one mans journey. Read the end of BFFs discovery thread. He has a hot new girlfriend and yes, he is happy again.

Stick around for two reasons
1) We will help you past today.
2) Help the betrayed behind you.


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## C-man

As others have said - you need to confront - but you also need to decide what you want now that you know your wife has cheated.

For the tape - do not reveal the tape - just reveal your knowledge of her infidelity without giving away clues about your source. You may need the VAR in the future. 

Your wife's reaction when you confront will likely be denial, then lies, then accusations. She will try to guilt you over spying. Do not feel guilty about snooping/spying - this is YOUR marriage and YOUR family. I think she should leave your house after the confrontation and go live with a friend/family for a short period. Under no circumstances should you end up leaving. Remember, she didn't just cheat on you - she cheated on her entire family.

She may show remorse - but again - the cheater's script calls for them to do anything to deflect and continue their affair. So don't get roped in possibly fake remorse. Continue to post here and get advice.

Most importantly - don't make any big decisions in your current state of mind. You have been shocked, big-time, and you are not thinking properly. Don't beat yourself up over that either. NOBODY thinks properly after discovering an affair. 

Also - talk to somebody - go see your doctor - get checked for STI's. If you're having trouble sleeping - get a prescription. Sleep is the hardest thing after discovery because your mind is too active. Force yourself to exercise and try to eat properly. Get out with friends - confide in your closest friends - they will support you. Talk to family - they will support you too.

Lastly - don't in any way blame yourself for her cheating. You can blame yourself for the state of the marriage (50% share with your wife) but it was HER decision to cheat.


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## Carlchurchill

Amazing how often your 'spidey' sense is correct!!!!

You know this happens too often because so many men fall into the same trap once married, they get fat and bald and think giving their wife a car and house will make her happy.

You cant neglect your wife, you cant neglect yourself. Get a hobby, stay fit, surprise her every once in a while, be romantic...help her out around the house, with the kids. Have alone time as often as possible! 

You neglected your wife sexually and most likely emotionally, so she looked elsewhere to fill that void.

The fact that she was not initiating sex with you was a huge problem that you should have dealt with 2yrs ago.


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## C-man

Carlchurchill said:


> Amazing how often your 'spidey' sense is correct!!!!
> 
> You know this happens too often because so many men fall into the same trap once married, they get fat and bald and think giving their wife a car and house will make her happy.
> 
> You cant neglect your wife, you cant neglect yourself. Get a hobby, stay fit, surprise her every once in a while, be romantic...help her out around the house, with the kids. Have alone time as often as possible!
> 
> You neglected your wife sexually and most likely emotionally, so she looked elsewhere to fill that void.
> 
> The fact that she was not initiating sex with you was a huge problem that you should have dealt with 2yrs ago.


This happens to both men and women. It's still no excuse for cheating. I think the OP needs to concentrate on next steps right now, not blaming himself for his wife's decision to cheat.


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## Robsia

Carlchurchill said:


> You neglected your wife sexually and most likely emotionally, so she looked elsewhere to fill that void.


Mm - because of course the best way to fix your marriage is to fvck someone else.

OP - do not listen to what this person just said. Yes, there were likely problems with your M that you share the responsibility for. I am in the same position. Our M was not good before he cheated, but - hey - I was in the same marriage and I didn't cheat!!

It's not your fault!


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## carolinadreams

Carlchurchill said:


> Amazing how often your 'spidey' sense is correct!!!!
> 
> You know this happens too often because so many men fall into the same trap once married, they get fat and bald and think giving their wife a car and house will make her happy.
> 
> You cant neglect your wife, you cant neglect yourself. Get a hobby, stay fit, surprise her every once in a while, be romantic...help her out around the house, with the kids. Have alone time as often as possible!
> 
> You neglected your wife sexually and most likely emotionally, so she looked elsewhere to fill that void.
> 
> The fact that she was not initiating sex with you was a huge problem that you should have dealt with 2yrs ago.


This type of stuff, is worse than useless at the moment. Do you really think most people don't spend hours agonizing over what they did to cause this type of stuff in their marriage?

Unless you can travel back in time 2 years ago, and share that insight with him - not much of a contribution.


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## SoConfused1

Thank you all again for your thoughts. I left work early and am trying to prepare for confrontation. Tonight. Don't think I can get the kids out of the house so will wait until they are asleep. 

Do I just come right out and say it? "You're cheating with ...". Or try to test her by asking her about the texts then finally telling her I know?

Do I need all the answers tonight? Did you all? Sounds like I won't get it all tonight. I'll take what I can get.

So I keep on calling her out on her BS until when? 

Do I show her the text message activity obtained from our cell provider? Does it matter?

A friend I spoke with just a short time ago said not to contact his wife but to contact him and just tell him to stop contacting my wife. Agree?

I will be able to see his texts to her and if she replies but if he calls in attempt to get some idea of what was going on I won't know if she answered because any incoming call shows up for at least 1 minute, obviously if its more than a minute I will know but if only 1 I'll never know if she answered and gave a quick its over.


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## weightlifter

soconfused1 said:


> thank you all again for your thoughts. I left work early and am trying to prepare for confrontation. Tonight. Don't think i can get the kids out of the house so will wait until they are asleep.
> 
> Do i just come right out and say it? "you're cheating with ...". Or try to test her by asking her about the texts then finally telling her i know?
> 
> Channel your sorrow into PIZZED OFF! NO CRY!
> 
> tell her. You are ironman. "I KNOW YOU fvcked eddie munster in the parking lot at Walmart at 9pm yesterday. If you want ANY chance of reconciling SPILL NOW! I have proof and if you dont spill my entire list I will out you to the whole world; friends, family EVERYONE ON FACEBOOK, LINKEDIN AND ANY THING I CAN FIND!!!!" Dont tell her how you know. The dead last thing you ever give up is the var.
> 
> do i need all the answers tonight? Did you all? Sounds like i won't get it all tonight. I'll take what i can get.
> 
> no keep pushing. Youll need those questions answered to get closure. Work the timeline first. Promise to CONSIDER r not actually do it.
> 
> so i keep on calling her out on her bs until when?
> 
> far past your own endurance. Its gonna suck big time.
> 
> 
> do i show her the text message activity obtained from our cell provider? Does it matter?
> 
> is it detailed texts or just times and anounts?
> 
> a friend i spoke with just a short time ago said not to contact his wife but to contact him and just tell him to stop contacting my wife. Agree?
> 
> no!!!
> you blow up their affair by calling the other betrayed after you get yours at least part done.
> 
> i will be able to see his texts to her and if she replies but if he calls in attempt to get some idea of what was going on i won't know if she answered because any incoming call shows up for at least 1 minute, obviously if its more than a minute i will know but if only 1 i'll never know if she answered and gave a quick its over.


dude take her effing phone away from her. She does not get it back!!!

Are you US?
Have the var going to protect yourself.

DO NOT HIT HER!


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## C-man

SoConfused1 said:


> Thank you all again for your thoughts. I left work early and am trying to prepare for confrontation. Tonight. Don't think I can get the kids out of the house so will wait until they are asleep.
> 
> Do I just come right out and say it? "You're cheating with ...". Or try to test her by asking her about the texts then finally telling her I know?
> 
> Do I need all the answers tonight? Did you all? Sounds like I won't get it all tonight. I'll take what I can get.
> 
> So I keep on calling her out on her BS until when?
> 
> Do I show her the text message activity obtained from our cell provider? Does it matter?
> 
> A friend I spoke with just a short time ago said not to contact his wife but to contact him and just tell him to stop contacting my wife. Agree?
> 
> I will be able to see his texts to her and if she replies but if he calls in attempt to get some idea of what was going on I won't know if she answered because any incoming call shows up for at least 1 minute, obviously if its more than a minute I will know but if only 1 I'll never know if she answered and gave a quick its over.


If you can go someplace quiet and away from the kids it would be better - things might get heated.

I would recommend that you start the confrontation in a NON-confrontational way. Give your wife the opportunity to come clean on her own. eg - say "we need to talk". sit down in a quiet room then ask her "There's something we need to talk about - but before we start, is there anything you want to tell me?"

If she acts all innocent and pretends that there's nothing - you can simply advise her that you know about the OM. Gauge her reaction. 

She will likely try to trickle truth/downplay everything. That's not a good sign. On the other hand, if she breaks down and spills everything you already know - that's a good sign.

Anyway - good luck - it's not an easy task any way you look at it. Try to protect your kids from any fallout and make sure that you have a suitcase ready for her if she chooses to lie her way out of it.


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## SoConfused1

weightlifter said:


> dude take her effing phone away from her. She does not get it back!!!
> 
> Are you US?


If I take her phone she could call or text on her confidant's phone who also works with her and I would never know. Or she could call from the work phone.


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## aug

SoConfused1 said:


> Thank you all again for your thoughts. I left work early and am trying to prepare for confrontation. Tonight. Don't think I can get the kids out of the house so will wait until they are asleep.
> 
> Do I just come right out and say it? "You're cheating with ...". Or try to test her by asking her about the texts then finally telling her I know?
> 
> Do I need all the answers tonight? Did you all? Sounds like I won't get it all tonight. I'll take what I can get.
> 
> So I keep on calling her out on her BS until when?
> 
> Do I show her the text message activity obtained from our cell provider? Does it matter?
> 
> A friend I spoke with just a short time ago said not to contact his wife but to contact him and just tell him to stop contacting my wife. Agree?
> 
> I will be able to see his texts to her and if she replies but if he calls in attempt to get some idea of what was going on I won't know if she answered because any incoming call shows up for at least 1 minute, obviously if its more than a minute I will know but if only 1 I'll never know if she answered and gave a quick its over.



She wont tell you all tonight. I dont know if she will ever tell you all.

Dont let her know how you got your info. Keep your source close to your chest. Your wife will figure it out eventually.

Dont show her the number of texts. Use your knowledge of that to determine if she's is anywhere near the truth.

Your friend is wrong. The OM's wife really needs to know, she has the right to know. She'll be another pair of eyes on the affair.


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## SoConfused1

weightlifter said:


> do i show her the text message activity obtained from our cell provider? Does it matter?
> 
> is it detailed texts or just times and anounts?



Just times and numbers to and from. No details


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## SoConfused1

aug said:


> Your friend is wrong. The OM's wife really needs to know, she has the right to know. She'll be another pair of eyes on the affair.


He's also a lawyer, not divorce but multi discipline. I trust him but everyone else said to contact her. Unfortunately I have no way of contacting her. Dont know her name or anything.


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## SoConfused1

I went and got her panties from yesterday. Some suspicious white substance for sure. I assume the obvious but how can I tell for sure? Don't have time to run out and get some testing kit if there is one. Do I show her these? Is this too gross and childish?


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## carolinadreams

You can ziplock and get them tested later if you want to-it may not even be necessary depending on what happens. I'd focus on your confrontation at the moment.


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## weightlifter

soconfused1 said:


> i went and got her panties from yesterday. Some suspicious white substance for sure. I assume the obvious but how can i tell for sure? Don't have time to run out and get some testing kit if there is one. Do i show her these? Is this too gross and childish?


your silver bullet!!!!! Put them somewhere safe now!!!!

Tell her you have them but NOT WHERE AND DO NOT LET ON!!

Better yet cut the panties in half. Keep one half safe, show her the other.

Make sure most of the nasty is on the safe part you keep safe.! Make sure there is some cum on part you show.

I mean some place really safe!

I dont know if any normal stores sell those kits.

Even if she spills everything keep the proof safe!

With these new game plan.

Tell her to sit down. MAKE SURE YOU GET HER PHONE! You need to delay her at least from calling other man. Water for both of you. You r mouth will go dead dry. Have the questions printed your mind will be a mess. Go for the timeline first. Then fill in all methods she used. FIND OUT ALL PEOPLE WHO KNEW!!!!! THEY ARE TO BE GONE!!!

DO NOT APOLOGIZE CRY OR BEG!

I know you fvcked Eddie munster in walmart parkinglot at 9PM last night.... Catch her in a few lies THEN BREAK HER with the panties! (Well half the panties.) Care to try again? DEAR! Im betting that is not cupcake frosting is it??? (Take a pic now of the cut up panties and put that evidence also in a safe place.)

Push push push. You are Ironman. Tell her she can spill all and worst case is family and close friends find out. There may be a POSSIBILITY of R but continued lies mean OUTING to the whole world WITH PROOF and DIVORCE. Keep up the lies and the whole world finds out.

Copy the var files and put them in a safe place.


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## Robsia

Semen has a quite distinctive smell. Can't you tell?

Oh, and I tried the "Is there anything you want to tell me?" thing. Of course they don't WANT to tell you. That won't get you anything, except a sense of satisfaction that you did give them the chance to tell the truth first before outing them.

I also got trickle truth. They only confess to what you can prove. Even when I showed him the email from the OW proving him to be a dirty liar, then I told him that I knew they'd had sex - which he'd denied but she told me in a subsequent email - he frantically scoured the email saying "Where does it say that? It doesn't say that!"

It was almost comical, if my life wasn't falling apart.

I did get a few tidbits out of him that she hadn't told me, because he didn't know what she'd told me, so I bluffed a bit.

My situation was a bit different as the OW had ended it 3 months before D-day so she had no reason to lie to me - in fact she hadn't even known he was married - she was mortified when I emailed her and asked her was she having an affair with my husband. She was quite happy to drop him in it.


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## SoConfused1

I'll put in a safe place for sure. If that is what I think it is and she let him climax in her, that's an ultimate slap in the face cuz last time I had sex with her I couldn't because she was afraid of getting pregnant again she said. Maybe he had a snip snip but still I'm so horribly disgusted.


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## somethingelse

I'm sorry your W is putting you through this through this SoConfused, I've been through this kind of stuff quite a few times with my H so I have been where your at. I have also been in your W's shoes (not proud of it).. Your W is in her own little world right now. I'm sure that when you confront her she will be very upset and even hysterical. Just know that it comes with the situation. You have to stand your ground and come across like she is not desirable, and you want her out RIGHT NOW. I only know that if she is still in love with you, she will beg for you to rethink your decision. Then when she does this, you need to demand what you want out of this....(counseling, no contact with OM, etc.) Say that THAT is the ONLY way you will stay with her. She needs to agree to your terms...if she doesn't, then pack her bags for her and kick her out. Tell her to enjoy OM, and you will see her in court.


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## weightlifter

Do the cut in half thing. Take a pic of them next to each other as evidence. Keep the pic and half with most of the cum safe.

Dude that is great evidence.

I Cant find a normal store that sells the semen test kits. Then again maybe you are not in the US. May have to mail order.


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## SoConfused1

I didn't cut them, I stashed them in a safe place. Believe me I know the smell, I'm sure you all know why.

I didn't smell it though. Could smell either the detergent in the clothing or some other perfume like scent.


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## C-man

The panties don't necessarily mean anything unless you get them tested. The white discharge isn't necessarily semen. Even without them, you have all the evidence you need.

Agree with somethingelse - when you confront, you need to have a bag ready for her. If she denies, deflects, trickle truths then you need to ask her to leave, immediately. While she's packing, call the OM and start the exposure process.


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## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> She needs to agree to your terms...if she doesn't, then pack her bags for her and kick her out. Tell her to enjoy OM, and you will see her in court.


Shouldn't I wait maybe a couple of days to see if she comes to my terms. It may be so traumatic an experience tonight that after she calms down and realizes what she really has done that she comes to her senses and does the right thing. Or am I totally wrong? I don't want to decide tonight if its D or R. I think some time will pass before I know for sure, don't you think?


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## tom67

C-man said:


> The panties don't necessarily mean anything unless you get them tested. Even without them, you have all the evidence you need.
> 
> Agree with somethingelse - when you confront, you need to have a bag ready for her. If she denies, deflects, trickle truths then you need to ask her to leave, immediately. While she's packing, call the OM and start the exposure process.


Call the omw first please before other exposing.


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## weightlifter

SoConfused1 said:


> I didn't cut them, I stashed them in a safe place. Believe me I know the smell, I'm sure you all know why.
> 
> I didn't smell it though. Could smell either the detergent in the clothing or some other perfume like scent.


Snail trails? (Girl cum) they are an awesome weapon in the confrontation but you dont want them all vulnerable. Last time Ill suggest the cut thing. Gotta go for now. I HOPE it works for you.

Oh and btw. If you put them in your car. Thats the first place shes gonna look.


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## SoConfused1

If I pack a suitcase now or before we confront she will be tipped off to something. Heck I don't know what to pack for her anyway.


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## C-man

SoConfused1 said:


> Shouldn't I wait maybe a couple of days to see if she comes to my terms. It may be so traumatic an experience tonight that after she calms down and realizes what she really has done that she comes to her senses and does the right thing. Or am I totally wrong? I don't want to decide tonight if its D or R. I think some time will pass before I know for sure, don't you think?


Don't worry about how traumatic it is for her - she needs a wake up call. Worry about yourself and your family. You don't need to decide tonight - her actions will guide your decision - which may take weeks or months (again depending upon your wife's actions). But if she deflects/denies/accuses/trickle truths then she's got to go, at least for the short-term until she can come to terms with her own lying.


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## sandc

SoConfused1 said:


> Shouldn't I wait maybe a couple of days to see if she comes to my terms. It may be so traumatic an experience tonight that after she calms down and realizes what she really has done that she comes to her senses and does the right thing. Or am I totally wrong? I don't want to decide tonight if its D or R. I think some time will pass before I know for sure, don't you think?


The open suitcase on your bed can be a great way to start a conversation. Tell her that she may need it or not depending on her answers. But no, do NOT give her a couple of days. If she doesn't start playing ball immediately, show her the door. She needs to realize what it is she's losing. And then after she leaves go dark. Do not contact her, do not return calls, nothing for a few days. Give her a heaping tablespoon of "this is your new life without me."


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## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Shouldn't I wait maybe a couple of days to see if she comes to my terms. It may be so traumatic an experience tonight that after she calms down and realizes what she really has done that she comes to her senses and does the right thing. Or am I totally wrong? I don't want to decide tonight if its D or R. I think some time will pass before I know for sure, don't you think?


No..do not wait. If she is serious about your M, she will agree to any terms you set. YOU don't necessarily have to be wanting to D, but SHE needs to believe that you are serious about D. She needs to believe that you aren't a doormat, and that she has no other option but to do your will and not her own, or else she is stuck with OM (she hasn't exactly been doing the right things on her own has she ) 

This is your time to show her that you are the man. And she can sleep in the bed she has made. This is the only way to knock her out of La La Land. She needs a wake up call. If you give her time to think, she will see weakness in you, and might continue to sleep with OM. Then you have more trouble on your hands and you will be in deep water, especially if you are not willing to D.

And think of it this way...if after doing what I've told you, she decides that she doesn't want to stop seeing OM, and she leaves the house....then it is safe to say your W is not yours anymore, and she is not worth the time worrying about ever again. Move on with your life the best you can, cry it out, look to your family and friends for comfort and realize that your W is not M worthy


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## carolinadreams

Take a deep breath again. Your head is going a million miles per hour, and you are probably running on barely any sleep.

I would advise against any major decisions for a good bit. People make poor decisions when they are under immense stress, or they feel cornered.

After I confronted my wife, she left and went to her families house, she felt so guilty and ashamed that she thought I should divorce her, that what she had done was unforgivable. The next day she called and said she had made the worst mistake, and wanted to know if she could have another chance.

It sounds like the important think to you is to take charge of the conversation, stop the infidelity, find out the extent of it and and go from there.

Break it down into discrete steps, that you can process, and take your time. Don't be in a rush and keep your calm, you will make better decisions. You are also less likely to cause more damage to a relationship that you may want to repair.


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## Robsia

if you're anything like me you'll probably veer from wanting D to R to D again.

Right now I'm not fully decided either way. It's a big decision and it depends mostly on the behaviour of your WS when they are found out and afterwards also.

But what others have said is right. Even if you are not fully decided you want to D - she needs to think that you do.


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## SoConfused1

Seems to be much disagreement regarding who I should contact first, either OM or OMW. This doesn't help me much, beside I still can't find her number. I have a name but there are multiple listings and this is driving me crazy. I could call a couple of people to ask but that would be tipping them off to something and I really don't want to do that.


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## alte Dame

Don't put pressure on yourself to absolutely decide your future right away. You still don't really know the extent of what you are dealing with. You know it's PA. You know who it is. You have an idea of how long. Past that, what do you know? And how will your decision change based on what you find out?

Your choices will vary based on many things - whether she wants to save your marriage or whether she thinks she's 'in love' with the OM; whether she acts remorseful; whether she immediately tries to shift blame; whether she reacts in anger, etc. It's natural for the jury to be out for you right now given how much you don't yet know.

Make it clear to her that you are in control of this process now. Be firm and look confident. If she says she's in love with OM, say 'Fine. Get out.' If she wants to try to work on things and has the appearance of remorse, then you still need time to think and decide. (I would have her leave at this point as well, though I know many don't recommend that.) Don't give away any sources. Don't blink. Stay cold.


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## weightlifter

Do not contact other man! Use his wife as your weapon.
AFTER. NOT before.

Suitcase idea rocks btw.


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## alte Dame

SoConfused1 said:


> Seems to be much disagreement regarding who I should contact first, either OM or OMW. This doesn't help me much, beside I still can't find her number. I have a name but there are multiple listings and this is driving me crazy. I could call a couple of people to ask but that would be tipping them off to something and I really don't want to do that.


Expose to the OMW. If the OM knows what you know he will get to her to spin a story to head you off. Imo, you would confront your W and inform the OMW as close together as possible.


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## carolinadreams

I would suggest taking your wife's phone when you confront. At that point you could ask her the Other Man's Wife name and number and call her on the spot.

*I think the reason you are getting conflicting advice is people are reading over the fact that you don't have a good contact number, for the other man's wife. * _ Please read the information he is giving us before giving him advice!_

Calling the other man's wife is probably preferable, but barring that I would call the other man and lay down the law. If nothing else it may raise your status in your wife's eyes as you are taking control.

Most cheaters don't want to do that much work or suffer that much hardship. This guy probably "misses" your wife as long as it's fun and easy, once he knows he has to deal an angry husband, fallout, and a potential lawsuit it may not be that much fun anymore.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Seems to be much disagreement regarding who I should contact first, either OM or OMW. This doesn't help me much, beside I still can't find her number. I have a name but there are multiple listings and this is driving me crazy. I could call a couple of people to ask but that would be tipping them off to something and I really don't want to do that.


Call OMW first! Not OM. If you call OM first, he will end up telling OMW some BS story, and his life will go on peaches, while yours goes on in shambles. Now you tell his W first...let her hear the recording you have, and what you know about the texts from OM to your W...and OM will not be able to cover up what he has done with your W...and he will concentrate on his own M and ignore your W while he tries to salvage his own a$$...then your W will have to submit to you


----------



## alte Dame

If you know the OM's work address and number, there are possible ploys to get his W's number/email address. Is this an avenue you want to pursue?


----------



## ironman

SoConfused1 said:


> Seems to be much disagreement regarding who I should contact first, either OM or OMW. This doesn't help me much, beside I still can't find her number. I have a name but there are multiple listings and this is driving me crazy. I could call a couple of people to ask but that would be tipping them off to something and I really don't want to do that.


Don't tell anyone yet. Surprise her by having her served with divorce papers. Reasons for this ...

1) It lets her know you mean business
2) It wakes her up and potentially snaps her back to reality
3) If she is unremorseful, angry and in love with the other guy, well then you need to get divorced anyway
4) If she comes begging for you back in tears, etc .. you can always stop the divorce at a later date

Do this if you want any chance of saving your marriage .. or even if you don't.


----------



## SoConfused1

somethingelse said:


> Now you tell his W first...let her hear the recording you have, and what you know about the texts from OM to your W...and OM will not be able to cover up what he has done with your W...and he will concentrate on his own M and ignore your W while he tries to salvage his own a$$...then your W will have to submit to you



So I will have to set up a meeting with the OMW to play the recording for her? Is that really a good idea?


----------



## C-man

I'm probably not the best person to be giving this advice, since I mishandled my own situation (but then I didn't know about this forum back then). But I think you need to contact the OM (after you confront your wife). If you have the OMW's number fine - contact her first, but whether you contact the OM or not - he is going to find out from your wife right away anyway. You might as well get in his face and let the little sh!t know that you are on to him. That's just me.

At any rate - you are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride for the next little while. Make sure you get your sleep, try to eat properly, use this forum as well as family friends to vent, EXERCISE, and most importantly - look after your children.


----------



## SoConfused1

alte Dame said:


> If you know the OM's work address and number, there are possible ploys to get his W's number/email address. Is this an avenue you want to pursue?


Not sure, he could be tipped off before I confront my wife.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> So I will have to set up a meeting with the OMW to play the recording for her? Is that really a good idea?


Not necessarily. If it's loud enough, play it over the phone. Make sure she gets the texts between OM and your W as well. She needs to believe that this has happened.


----------



## carolinadreams

The K.I.S.S. principle has almost always worked well for me.

Confused do you think an elaborate orchestration is going to get the job done, or a simple confrontation of your wife, and the other man and his wife. You know your own desires and capacity. Just make sure you hold a few things back as leverage or trump cards.

You know your limits and patience, it doesn't sound like you want this to keep going on while you get together divorce papers, or stage an elaborate confrontation.


----------



## BrockLanders

Your recording is most likely illegal. I would not tell anyone I had it and if I had to play it I would tell them that I would deny having it. Lead her to believe you had a PI on them and you have the panties.


----------



## tom67

Listen simply when you confront it's hard but be as cool calm and collected as you can. Ok you don't have her number, do you know where he lives. Hit spokeo you may get the info there jmo.


----------



## BrockLanders

OP, do you live in the US?


----------



## FooledOnce

Sorry that you are going through this.

Congratulations for being so calm. I hear your anger, but you are doing a great job of considering your options first.

I have no good advice on who to tell, or indeed the order of disclosure. I just wanted to ask if a confrontation at home, with the kids around (albeit asleep) is a good idea.

Is it not better to get a sitter in and take your *wife out of the house. That way if her temper flares and shouting ensues, at least you will not start down the very long path of the kids involvement.

Also, realize that separation from the OM will be difficult. Like it or not, she feels herself to be attached to him. Right now (sorry) he is a better deal than you. Confrontation without a clear strategy may make her crave the OM, while wanting to repair her marriage with you.

Perhaps thinking through a plan to communicate through this period with her might help. She has already felt guilt on some level, no remorse, but guilt nonetheless. Depending on her emotional framework, cornering, berating, and blaming her may not be helpful. Being a bigger man and understanding the the landscape of your marriage is forever changed AND presenting a clear strategy forward (without weakness) may be more appealing.

These are just suggestions.


----------



## SoConfused1

Yes I live in the US


----------



## SoConfused1

FooledOnce said:


> Sorry that you are going through this.
> 
> Congratulations for being so calm. I hear your anger, but you are doing a great job of considering your options first.
> 
> I have no good advice on who to tell, or indeed the order of disclosure. I just wanted to ask if a confrontation at home, with the kids around (albeit asleep) is a good idea.



One of my children will be out of the house. I'm not sure I can get someone else to watch the others. I have to confront now to hopefully stop the affair. They could very well meet tomorrow and/or the next day before I for sure can get all the kids out for a night.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Yes I live in the US


Believe me, I've been through this with my H for around 7 years, he's a serial cheater. The ONLY things that have ever gotten resolution for our M was; the last time he cheated, I left him and threatened with D papers, also acted like I didn't love him anymore and he was a sack of crap. He begged for me back, was willing to do whatever it took to resolve our M and stop doing what he was doing. Every other thing I tried always led to him cheating again.


----------



## SoConfused1

Damn they probably met again today. THIS HAS TO STOP, KIDS OR NO KIDS I HAVE TO CONFRONT HER TONIGHT! IS THIS WRONG?


----------



## SoConfused1

We can talk in the basement might not be so loud down there.


----------



## FooledOnce

I take your point, and you raise a valid concern.

My experience with this tells me two things very clearly. 

First, your wife is emotionally attached to this man. She will be in a "fog" for want of a more useful term. This is akin to feeling high on this man. When threatened with loosing this, even in light of her marriage and kids, will cause her the pain of loss. She is the wrongdoer. But nevertheless, she will have 2 distinct sets of feelings. On the one hand, a huge fear of the situation (not yet realizing the impact of losing you, her kids, friends community etc.) just fear of the now. On the other, fear of losing her new spark. Never feeling that sense of excitement again if she "loses" the OM.

Second, you are in this for the long haul. Nothing will be immediate. Statistic say that you are more likely to come out of this with a better, stronger marriage that is more fulfilling and meaningful. The lack of sex for the prior 6 months and curtailed intimacy that you have experienced with more than likely be repaired. But, that future comes at a significant and painful cost. You have to be smarter than her when she is normal, and much smarter than her while in this "foggy state".


----------



## Robsia

No, not wrong. I confronted as soon as I found out, even before I had the OW's email confirming they were having a PA. It was a mistake, as of course he only admitted to what I could prove, which was that he had met her for meals out, I had CC receipts.

However, it gave him a chance to prove what a liar he was when I went back to him later that evening with her email.

You have concrete proof. Confront.

Of course, I could be wrong. There may now be a deluge of more experienced peeps on here coming to tell me I'm wrong. but I know what I'd do.


----------



## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> The K.I.S.S. principle has almost always worked well for me.
> 
> Confused do you think an elaborate orchestration is going to get the job done, or a simple confrontation of your wife, and the other man and his wife. You know your own desires and capacity. Just make sure you hold a few things back as leverage or trump cards.
> 
> You know your limits and patience, it doesn't sound like you want this to keep going on while you get together divorce papers, or stage an elaborate confrontation.


I'm not looking for an elaborate scheme this is going to be simple confrontation.


----------



## carolinadreams

Absolutely not!

You are never going to do this perfectly! Surrender that idea!

You can absolutely confront, demand transparency, take steps to ensure that contact between them doesn't happen, and monitor during the meantime.

It sounds like you have determined that stopping the on-going damage is more important than having a warehouse full of evidence. You have enough to act on so take action. 

You are in paralysis by analysis.


----------



## BrockLanders

SoConfused1 said:


> Damn they probably met again today. THIS HAS TO STOP, KIDS OR NO KIDS I HAVE TO CONFRONT HER TONIGHT! IS THIS WRONG?


Wait until they go to sleep and have the discussion in the basement. I'd go to home depot and get contractor bags to put all her things in as well.


----------



## SoConfused1

carolinadreams said:


> You are in paralysis by analysis.


You are so right about that point. I need to stop now and review my notes and get ready. 


Thank you all for your help and support.


----------



## johnnycomelately

SoConfused1 said:


> You are so right about that point. I need to stop now and review my notes and get ready.
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your help and support.


Good luck.


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> Damn they probably met again today. THIS HAS TO STOP, KIDS OR NO KIDS I HAVE TO CONFRONT HER TONIGHT! IS THIS WRONG?


Confront, but be prepared to kick her out. Be in control, and don't get emotional or cry in front of her. She needs to feel like she's the one out of control in order to feel like she has to change. Remember...you are the man, OM is a loser. W is a loser too if she wants to be with him. If she confesses and seems remorseful (crying, sobbing, begging) then tell her your conditions.


----------



## FooledOnce

Best of luck!


----------



## carolinadreams

Good luck brother, you will get through this.


----------



## sandc

Stay strong. 

Also know that within 5 minutes after you are done confronting her she will call the OM asking him what to do. You may want to think about a strategy to deal with this.


----------



## jerry123

Don't tell her about VAR, you will need it if/when she leaves the house. Make sure it is charged up and have it in her car tonight. Tell her you had a P.I. And he found all the info for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

jerry123 said:


> Don't tell her about VAR, you will need it if/when she leaves the house. Make sure it is charged up and have it in her car tonight. Tell her you had a P.I. And he found all the info for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS. :smthumbup:

You will be able to hear her discussing next steps with POSOM.


----------



## weightlifter

NEVER talk about TAM to her. We are also your secret weapons. The TAM Army.


----------



## carolinadreams

weightlifter said:


> NEVER talk about TAM to her. We are also your secret weapons. The TAM Army.


Absolutely, unfortunately TAM can be used a cheater's handbook.


----------



## OnTheRocks

Only reason to not confront tonight is if you live in an at-fault State that awards alimony. Otherwise, blow this wide open. Sending you good mojo. Be calm and firm. Understand that you no longer know this person that your wife has become, and she may react like a trapped animal.


----------



## Will_Kane

alte Dame said:


> *Expose to the OMW*. If the OM knows what you know he will get to her to spin a story to head you off. *Imo, you would confront your W and inform the OMW as close together as possible*.


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Damn they probably met again today. THIS HAS TO STOP, KIDS OR NO KIDS I HAVE TO CONFRONT HER TONIGHT! IS THIS WRONG?


Confront tonight. Use the basement. Have a VAR in your pocket.

Give her a few tidbits of WHAT you know (other man's name, they've been having sex, it's been going on for a long while) but NEVER how you knew (no mention of panties, texts, or VARs).

The key is for you to be completely confident.

"I need to talk to you about something very important regarding our marriage and our future together. I do not want to take any chances at all that the children will overhear us, so let's talk in the basement."

Once in the basement, "I KNOW you've been cheating on me. I have indisputable proof. Please do not try to deny it, you will just make yourself look foolish and a liar. Believe me when I tell you, the proof I have is absolutely indisputable. It is 100% and there is no way for you to deny it."

"I do still love you, but I'm not sure I want to stay married to you. Please explain to me your side of the story."

Then let her talk. Use silence as an interrogation strategy. If she is talking, do not interrupt her. Whenever she finishes talking, do not start talking or asking more questions until five full seconds have passed. If she starts talking again in those five seconds, let her keep talking. Do this for as long as you have to, as long as she keeps talking.

If she asks you what evidence you have, tell her that you do not want to tell her your source (use the word "source"; it may make her think of private investigator) because if you do, then she will be aware of how you found out, and it might make it more difficult for you to use the same source in the future.

If she does not confess to the affair going back to at least the time that she spent a lot of time with this guy while he was doing work for you, just keep telling her, "I KNOW there's more."

If you need to give her a tidbit or two along the way, bring up having sex with him during the day, but don't say when, what day, what time of day, or where.

The idea is to let her think you have a private investigator.

If you keep this up and stay calm, she WILL confess.

If she is the one in a hundred who doesn't, then after an hour or two, just leave it be, remain confident, and tell her she will be getting divorce papers from your lawyer, the papers WILL name the other man and her ADULTERY, and you will give your lawyer your evidence and put him in touch with your source so he can best decide how to use it against her in the divorce. Then tell her you don't really want to do this right now, you would much prefer that she just tell you the truth and, IF SO, you MIGHT decide to work on the marriage.


----------



## aug

Or, he could keep it simple and ask her:

- I have been waiting for you to tell me. How long do you intend to keep your affair a secret? Till you die?

- When you do plan to move out? Let me help you move out tonight. I'll call your lover to come pick you up.

- We'll have to work out the final details like child custody and other arrangements. How about this weekend? I need to complete the filing of the divorce paper next week.

Do it cold, steady and no emotions (if you can).


----------



## SoConfused1

Im so nervous. She can tell something is wrong cuz I can't hide it anymore. I feel sick, weak, tired, and my heart is racing. 

I have no plan post confrontation about contacting OMW or OM. I guess I am just going to wing it. I don't have her contact info so may have to attempt to obtain it tomorrow

she's already playing dumb like there should be nothing wrong. Ugh this is going to be a long nite. I feel like im going to screw up something. Give her too many details perhaps. I feel like I will be pressured to give some detail as to convince her I'm on to them. 

The calm before the storm...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## C-man

SoConfused1 said:


> Im so nervous. She can tell something is wrong cuz I can't hide it anymore. I feel sick, weak, tired, and my heart is racing.
> 
> I have no plan post confrontation about contacting OMW or OM. I guess I am just going to wing it. I don't have her contact info so may have to attempt to obtain it tomorrow
> 
> she's already playing dumb like there should be nothing wrong. Ugh this is going to be a long nite. I feel like im going to screw up something. Give her too many details perhaps. I feel like I will be pressured to give some detail as to convince her I'm on to them.
> 
> The calm before the storm...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Just remember that you are in control of the situation . SHE is the one who screwed up, not you. Do not tell her about the VAR she only has to know that you know, not how you found out.

She WILL try to deny/deflect/trickle truth. Stick to your plan and DO NOT BEG and do not break down. 

If you feel that it's getting out of control - just ask her to leave and pick up the conversation after she's had a night or two outside of the home to think about it.

Good luck!


----------



## carolinadreams

You've got this. Don't give up your sources of information, if she asks how you know say its irrelevant. Resist any efforts to go off on tangents. 

Your goal should be to make her confess to what there is, and then set out the limits for the coming weeks and months if she wants to remain married to you.

She will attempt to side track you, you can either say "we can talk about that in counseling if I decide you can stay" , or "we can discuss that later". Put it in your own terms but keep the conversation where you want it.


----------



## carolinadreams

I suggest taking her phone too.


----------



## jim123

SoConfused1 said:


> Im so nervous. She can tell something is wrong cuz I can't hide it anymore. I feel sick, weak, tired, and my heart is racing.
> 
> I have no plan post confrontation about contacting OMW or OM. I guess I am just going to wing it. I don't have her contact info so may have to attempt to obtain it tomorrow
> 
> she's already playing dumb like there should be nothing wrong. Ugh this is going to be a long nite. I feel like im going to screw up something. Give her too many details perhaps. I feel like I will be pressured to give some detail as to convince her I'm on to them.
> 
> The calm before the storm...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep your cool as best as possible. Say as little as possible. Tell her you have the proof you need but you want to here it from her. Tell her this is her only chance and you are not positive about that.

Be strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

What worked for me was not asking any questions and just telling Mrs. the guy that I invested alot of money and having unprotected sex with XXXX is unacceptable and you need to find a place to sleep tonight.

She will go off and let her don't argue.

When she has finished her rant simple smile and restate what you already said.

My point is don't turn this into an accusation, excuses or some justification, You know the truth what ever she has to say is now irrelevant.

In the end it will be up to her to make the choice to NC.

I can't stress enough how your calm and collected attitude and with a smile on your face, she will know how confident you are with what you keep restating.

Simply put when confronting simply state fact, it doesn;t matter how you know are what she says at this point....unless she come clean.


----------



## the guy

I hope I'm not to late.

As weak as OP is he can't...must not show it!


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Im so nervous. She can tell something is wrong cuz I can't hide it anymore. I feel sick, weak, tired, and my heart is racing.
> 
> I have no plan post confrontation about contacting OMW or OM. I guess I am just going to wing it. I don't have her contact info so may have to attempt to obtain it tomorrow
> 
> she's already playing dumb like there should be nothing wrong. Ugh this is going to be a long nite. I feel like im going to screw up something. Give her too many details perhaps. I feel like I will be pressured to give some detail as to convince her I'm on to them.
> 
> The calm before the storm...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't worry about being perfect.

Nothing you say or do is going to change the basic facts - she's cheating and you know about it. Nothing she can say or do to change those facts, either.

You know she's been cheating, having sex, for quite a while. You don't know all the details, but you know enough, regardless of whether you handle this perfectly, she comes clean, she begs for forgiveness or she says she's done.

Nothing final happens tonight, nothing happens tonight that can't change later on. She can beg for forgiveness tonight and change her mind tomorrow, she can say she is through with you tonight and change her mind tomorrow.

My point is not to be too nervous. What's going to happen is going to happen whether or not you say it perfectly or not or are nervous or not.

Rest assured, no matter what you do, no matter what the end result is, it will be better for you to get this done now than to put it off to another day.


----------



## carolinadreams

Will_Kane said:


> Don't worry about being perfect.
> 
> Nothing you say or do is going to change the basic facts - she's cheating and you know about it. Nothing she can say or do to change those facts, either.
> 
> You know she's been cheating, having sex, for quite a while. You don't know all the details, but you know enough, regardless of whether you handle this perfectly, she comes clean, she begs for forgiveness or she says she's done.
> 
> Nothing final happens tonight, nothing happens tonight that can't change later on. She can beg for forgiveness tonight and change her mind tomorrow, she can say she is through with you tonight and change her mind tomorrow.
> 
> My point is not to be too nervous. What's going to happen is going to happen whether or not you say it perfectly or not or are nervous or not.
> 
> Rest assured, no matter what you do, no matter what the end result is, it will be better for you to get this done now than to put it off to another day.


Absolutely, it shows you won't compromise on the basic principles of marriage, and integrity either. Don't be surprised if you see your wife's respect for you increase.


----------



## Machiavelli

That was an eventful 24 hours of posting. VARs rule the battlespace once again!

I wonder how the gaslighting session went...


----------



## carolinadreams

I still think a lot of people would benefit from standing up for themselves and demanding transparency if their "spidey sense" is tingling.


----------



## the guy

Machiavelli said:


> That was an eventful 24 hours of posting. VARs rule the battlespace once again!
> 
> I wonder how the gaslighting session went...


Lots of blameshifting and lots of crying from WW I'm guessing...

I hope OP holds it together and holds back the tears.

I wonder if she stuck it out of bailed?


----------



## the guy

carolinadreams said:


> I still think a lot of people would benefit from standing up for themselves and demanding transparency if their "spidey sense" is tingling.


:iagree:
Demanding is one thing, getting it is completely different!

We can only wait and see if WW sticks it out and says "I'LL DO ANYTHING "....and even then!


----------



## carolinadreams

Sounds like they have young children, I'm guessing she stayed if she has a shred of decency.

I believe decent women (and men) can make bad decisions, I'm hoping for him that's his wife.


----------



## SoConfused1

Well I must say that went better than I anticipated. She denied at first but confessed after I kept at it and it didn't take too long. She did act remorseful and was quickly saying it was a mistake and saying it is never going to happen again and she won't contact him ever again. She wants me and not him and said he meant nothing to her. I'm not sure she's being totally forthright about the extent of the affair but maybe that will come out a little more through time and counseling. She has no problem with giving me access to all her emails and facebook and all. She didn't beg for forgiveness but almost did. I was amazingly calm and assertive and didn't have to divulge the VAR. I thinks she suspects a PI. I did get more emotional later on but I think she genuinely fears a divorce and a breakup of the family. 

We have issues that need to be worked out and I still don't know if I can get past her cheating but I feel if anything this is a start in the right direction. Now I just have to wait and see if she meant what she said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

So now on to exposure and staying vigile with confirming what she says versus what she does.

The VAR should help greatly.

What was your approach and what was the defining moment that made her confess?


----------



## the guy

When will she let you review the NC letter before you guys send it?


----------



## the guy

MAke sure the NC letter isn't an apoligy but condeming what the two of them did to the family unit.

Thats why you need to review it.


----------



## the guy

The NC letter she sends OM, she need to say alot about the deceit and the wrong she did and *he* did.........not about how she can't see him anymore and will miss him.

Also the letter should include how much a better man you are and that the OM ment nothing.........


This NC letter is the second most important part to all of this. her reaction and response to it will show you how remorsefull she really is.


----------



## SoConfused1

I'll divulge more tomorrow I'm exhausted and heading to bed. I will say that I'm not letting her have any say in a letter or phone call to him. I want a clean break she doesn't need any last thought of him. It's over now and I want her moving forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

I didn't think the NC letter was that important. Great maybe I need to rethink this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Telling you one thing might just be lip service, she has to write this letter, you review it and you send it together.

She must write down the hate she has for OM and how much better you are as a men, husband, father and friend.

Again often NC letters concist of apoligies rather then condeming the affair.....is your wife even wants to write one.

That in its self is telling.


----------



## the guy

Trust me if she doesn't condem this affair and tell the OM what a piece of crap he is she is only protecting him....and thats bad.


----------



## aug

SoConfused1 said:


> Well I must say that went better than I anticipated. She denied at first but confessed after I kept at it and it didn't take too long. *She did act remorseful and was quickly saying it was a mistake and saying it is never going to happen again and she won't contact him ever again. She wants me and not him and said he meant nothing to her. *I'm not sure she's being totally forthright about the extent of the affair but maybe that will come out a little more through time and counseling. She has no problem with giving me access to all her emails and facebook and all. She didn't beg for forgiveness but almost did. I was amazingly calm and assertive and didn't have to divulge the VAR. I thinks she suspects a PI. I did get more emotional later on but I think she genuinely fears a divorce and a breakup of the family.
> 
> We have issues that need to be worked out and I still don't know if I can get past her cheating but I feel if anything this is a start in the right direction. Now I just have to wait and see if she meant what she said.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a self-defense mechanism on her part. Believe nothing she says for a while. When she gets her bearings readjusted, when her sexual desires overwhelm her again, she may go deeper underground.

It's too soon, too sudden for her to readjust after being with another lover for so long. She's saying things tonight that you want to hear. Does she mean them? Not yet. Only her future actions will tell.


----------



## the guy

Typically she will try to meet OM in secret to call it of....she will want to give him closure in her own way and it won't work.

The NC letter is infidelity 101.

This isn't about them having one last good by its about her condeming the affair, her behavior and his behavior.....

Its about why she is choosing her spouse and making OM look like sh1t...so much that it upsets him and never tries to contact her again.


----------



## aug

the guy said:


> Telling you one thing might just be lip service, she has to write this letter, you review it and you send it together.
> 
> She must write down the hate she has for OM and how much better you are as a men, husband, father and friend.
> 
> Again often NC letters concist of apoligies rather then condeming the affair.....is your wife even wants to write one.
> 
> That in its self is telling.


Yes, this. And a letter to his wife also.


----------



## the guy

Seriously, the NC letter is a must!!!!!

And you need to have some control over it....

Dude she is going to want closure and Om will bug her for it.

What....Would you rather them contact each other again in secret and her telling you she was calling it off, or woulf you have the NC letter that you review which eliminate any excuse from her in the future to contact him.

make sense?


----------



## the guy

Confrontation, exposure, NC letter...its all part of it.


----------



## tom67

Just remember it will be her actions not words, stay focused. You did well rest up.


----------



## carolinadreams

SoConfused1 said:


> Well I must say that went better than I anticipated. She denied at first but confessed after I kept at it and it didn't take too long. She did act remorseful and was quickly saying it was a mistake and saying it is never going to happen again and she won't contact him ever again. She wants me and not him and said he meant nothing to her. I'm not sure she's being totally forthright about the extent of the affair but maybe that will come out a little more through time and counseling. She has no problem with giving me access to all her emails and facebook and all. She didn't beg for forgiveness but almost did. I was amazingly calm and assertive and didn't have to divulge the VAR. I thinks she suspects a PI. I did get more emotional later on but I think she genuinely fears a divorce and a breakup of the family.
> 
> We have issues that need to be worked out and I still don't know if I can get past her cheating but I feel if anything this is a start in the right direction. Now I just have to wait and see if she meant what she said.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad to hear that went as well as it did! IF you two can call in sick for the rest of the week I highly recommend it!

Don't be suprised if your wife seems depressed for a week or so. It may hurt your pride but they can feel out of sorts, when they lose that connection to the other-man. You just have to make sure that the monitoring, and boundaries stay in place to keep him out of the picture, while she regains her mental footing and her moral compass.


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## Robsia

Well done. That can't have been easy for you. Don't relax too soon though. Acting remorseful and saying the right things are very different to BEING remorseful and DOING the right things.

You've got a long long road ahead of you.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> *I didn't think the NC letter was that important.* Great maybe I need to rethink this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> *I suspect this friend knows something *because she texted my wife later this evening and my wife was texting her first thing most mornings in the last week or so, if she wasn't texting the OM first.
> 
> I don't know why I care but it disturbs me that a married woman with children would help or have some part in another married woman having an affair. *I think my wife used nights out with this friend as a cover.* I actually suspected this a while ago but didn't take any action on it.


I think the no contact letter is important. Just the willingness of her to hand write one shows where her thoughts are. The letter should be HAND WRITTEN on paper, given to you for proofreading, then you make a photocopy and mail it CERTIFIED MAIL to the other man. It contains no terms of endearment, no sorry it didn't work out, no I will always miss you, no niceties of any kind, it begins simply with his name (not "dear") and ends with "signed" and your wife's signature.

"Other Man, 

I am terribly ashamed of my behavior and feel horrible for having risked losing the love of my life, my husband. Do not ever attempt to contact me again. If you do, I will file harassment charges against you. 

Signed, 

Wife Name." 

That is all the contact she should have with him for the rest of her life.

Other conditions:

a. Make sure she understands what "no contact" means. Many cheaters get "confused" and think it is OK to reply to other man's text with something like, "I wish I could talk to you and have sex with you, but my husband won't let me." What "no contact" means is, if your wife receives a text, she ignores it and tells you about it immediately and does not delete it. If your wife receives a call, she does not answer it, tells you about it immediately. If other man tries to make face-to-face contact, your wife walks away, telling other man to leave her alone and calling police if other man follows her or refuses to leave, then calling you. "No contact" means no looking at other man's facebook page.

b. If wife's friend knew about the affair and encouraged it in any way, wife also has to go "no contact" with her friend. It's one of the consequences of your wife's behavior. If the friend is not a friend of you and the marriage, the friend is not a friend of your wife, either.

c. Transparency of communication devices, which she agrees to give you passwords and access to. This includes work email. This also includes NEVER DELETING anything. This includes browsing history. Also includes BLOCKING other man from email and facebook. PREFERABLY, YOUR WIFE CHANGES HER EMAIL ADDRESS AND HER CELL PHONE NUMBER AND DELETES HER FACEBOOK ACCOUNT.

d. She will get tested for all STDs and give you the results.

e. Tell the ENTIRE truth about the affair. If you catch her in another lie, you will file for divorce.

f. No going out socially without you; she lets you know where she is 24/7 and answers your calls immediately.

Other things you need to do:

Contact other man's wife. Your wife should have given you other man's address for the "no contact" letter, you have his name, see if you can get his wife's name and address and phone number or email or facebook or work phone number. Calling her up is best. Let her know what happened, that your wife confessed to. DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE DOING THIS or give any hint of it, or she will call other man to warn him, and he, in turn, will warn his wife that some "jealous nut case husband of a former customer has been falsely accusing him of cheating with his slvt of a wife."

Leave the VAR in place in the car for at least three weeks to see if she re-establishes contact. I am glad it went well for you, and there is very good chance your wife is sincere about ending all contact right now, but there also is a very good chance that either she or other man will seek to re-establish contact for "closure." Once the initial shock and storm passes, in a week or two, as you and she come off the initial shock, she or other man will have an urge to reach out and call and ask, "are you OK?" Yes, she will worry that the other man is OK.

Put gps on the car. Don't let her know you are doing it.

Keep monitoring through VAR and gps for at least three weeks, then occasionally as you feel the need thereafter. If it picks up nothing, you rebuild trust that much faster. If it does pick up something, it saves you another God knows how many month of her cheating behind your back.

Re-establish intimacy in your marriage (after she gets tested for STDs). Work on improving your legitimate faults in the marriage, she does the same. Spend more alone time with each other, make time for talking to each other, and make time for sex.

Was your wife's friend in on it and was your wife using her for cover?

Was your wife using girls nights out or nights out with her friend to meet other man?


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## Will_Kane

Ending the affair will leave a VOID in your wife's life. There will be minutes and hours that she USED TO spend DEVOTED to the other man - now what will she fill thos minutes/hours with?

She used to spend her lunch hours texting other man or meeting up for sex. How will she spend that time now? Each lunch hour, she will think of other man and miss him. This will continue for some time going forward.

Every morning and every night she used to text other man, "I miss you, I'm thinking about you, I love you, good morning" or "good night" and "xoxoxo" - she will think about this every morning and every night.

It might be a good idea if you increased your contact with your wife during these times. Especially during lunch. Any way to meet up with her for lunch a few times a week? Or at least call her during her lunch hour to talk? 

Sex in the car at lunch hour - reclaim your territory (if it's not too much of a trigger for you)?


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I'll divulge more tomorrow I'm exhausted and heading to bed. I will say that I'm not letting her have any say in a letter or phone call to him. *I want a clean break she doesn't need any last thought of him.* It's over now and I want her moving forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't control what goes on in her head.

You also can't really keep her from staying in contact with him, IF she really wants to. With technology the way it is today, there are about a thousand ways for her to contact him without you ever finding out about it. She could call from work. She could get a burner phone. She could use an app on her phone that doesn't leave a trace of phone calls or texts. She could communicate through her friend who was her confidant. She could communicate through the chat feature of any games or activities, like words with friends or other similar apps.

Monitor what you can and just stay vigilant for behavior changes and red flags.

Most of all, trust only in her ACTIONS, not in her WORDS. If words and actions don't match up, believe the actions.

As time passes and your monitoring turns up nothing, you will gradually feel comfortable monitoring less and less.


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## carolinadreams

What Wil Kane said about monitoring is crucial. The POSOM, tried to initiate contact with my wife again, and she was racing to let me know immediately!

Dont take anything for granted or assume anything, you need to clearly state all boundaries and expectations for your wife.


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## aug

Take some time to figure out what you really want. Reconciliation or Divorce.

Realize that whatever answer you have now is transitory. 

If you dont lock yourself to one path for now, you can make a better decision down the road. In the meantime, take a defensive position.


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## barbados

I'm glad she admitted the A to you, just be cautious that she isn't planning on taking it underground and is really serious about NC


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## weightlifter

Hoping it was a FWB situation.

Glad you can at least begin the next chapter.

Keep your evidence indefinitely and never divulge.


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## SoConfused1

Thx for all the feedback. We will write that letter tonight for sure. I was going to call OM this mornng and tell him it's over but maybe I won't do that yet. I did mention a couple of times that I as going to contact his wife and of course she said not to. 

I don't have much time but will mention wife said no one else knew at all. I'm going to keep pressing her on this because i'm skeptical of course. Also she agreed ro give me all access to everything and I fully explained what no contact meant. Like you all said now it's just time to sit back and see if her actions support her words. I want ro believe her but she needs to earn the trust back that bad been shattered with her acts. 

And yes she is going to get tested for STDs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoConfused1

I need and we need serious counseling. Has anyone used the info on here to start that process? I don't know where to start and don't have any referrals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986

How long did she admit this had been going on for? 

You need to tell the OMW because a) she deserves to know b) it helps to stamp out the affair. Affairs thrive in secrecy c) it's in the best interest of your marriage d) you're wife agreeing is a true sign of her remorse


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## jerry123

Of course you need to tell OMW!! He does not get off Scott free!!

So it seems she is dictating how things play out?!?! NOT!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

Follow up with a VAR. There's about a 98% chance she'll try to take the affair underground.

D-day is a trauma moment for cheaters: they thought they were smarter and above you, yet you proven the opposite. She will try to reclaim it.


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## FooledOnce

Absolutely tell the OMW - do not show weakness here. OMW needs to know for her family, give the power to her. Also, true remorse from WS can only be to stop any avenue of restarting affair - and believe me, where there's a will ...

Tell OMW that you have proof of affair, sex included (don't disclose VAR). She needs to know what her scumbag H has been doing. Don't give chance for OM to lie to his family.


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## tom67

You have to expose to everyone especially the omw first then her family your family asap.


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## alte Dame

You did a great job with this.

First, it's important to tell the OMW immediately. Your W and her OM will not stop without lots of pressure. The OMW has a right to know - if she had been the one to bust it, wouldn't you have wanted her to tell you?

Also, be careful when choosing an MC, if that's where you're headed. Make sure that the person has a visible track record with infidelity and absolutely find a new one if the one you start with begins to point the finger at you and/or rugsweeps the A.


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## weightlifter

IF the MC puts ANY blame on you. Change MC immediately.

***GAH once again. Dont tell other man. TELL HIS WIFE!***

Where was the car parked? (generically not an address. EG at her work. In a local park)

Was this their normal hookup spot?

Did she ever bring him home?

Other things like pics and sexting?

Were you rewinding during that var thing or was that play by play?

Do you feel a bit better now that you know in some ways?


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## tom67

Tell your wife to give you the address so you can hand deliver the letter but talk to omw first.


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## weightlifter

I would push on the friends thing HARD. Especially that suspeced wingwoman. Id push both but Im thinking harder on wingwoman.

I would also push on use of GNOs

Make sure she understands she is monitored 24/7 for the rest of her life. If you stop. You will be back here with dday 2.

You need to out her to CLOSE friends and both parent sets. Some will say public. Im rather meh on that in the case of remorse.

Just be aware of that R probabilities are not all that high.


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## bryanp

The way this went down seems to indicate that your wife had no intention of ever stopping screwing this guy until she got caught. It seems that she knows you very well and probably believed that even if she did get caught then you would immediately forgive her anyway which means she had nothing to lose which is exactly what happened.

If she was really really afraid that you would divorce her she never would have done it. She knew you would not and you have forgiven her immediately. If the roles were reversed would she have been so accepting and forgiving as you? She now knows that she has a husband who accepts that she was screwing her lover in a car. She has no respect for you whatsoever and probably feels that you were so easy to manipulate and is a total fool. If you do not respect yourself then who will because she does not. Good luck.


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## weightlifter

Outing her to parents, siblings and CLOSE friends is punishment. I dont see the point of the public part. IIRC they dont work together so not needed at work.

Being monitored for life IS punishment. For both of you. You CANT LET UP!

You ARE doing that right OP!!?? RIGHT!!!??


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## dgtal

Gather some evidence (ie: txt/ph calls records, make sure she has your W and your Ph #). Make a little letter and write down what is going on and possible consequences if her POSOM continues to intoxicate your marriage. Make sure the POSOM is at work and run to his house. It will take only 2 minutes. Handle the OMW the papers, knock at her door and ask if she is the OMW. Tell her her husband is screwing your wife and destroying your marriage. Handle her the papers Ask her if she wants more to call you, and walk out. Be cool / polite.

Remember don't disclose your sources. If you want to play PI follow the OM not your wife.


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## sandc

It is important that you dictate the terms of the R but that she do the heavy lifting to fix things. She broke the marriage she fixes it. You can change the things about yourself that you know you need to change. But the bulk of the actions needing to be done are on her.

She must be willing to throw him under the bus to keep you. Why did she not want you to contact OMW? Fine, then your wife calls her and tells her she's be banging OM in the car at lunch time. You follow up by sending her whatever information OMW may ask for.


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## weightlifter

Outing the OM to the WIFE is a must.


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## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Outing the OM to the WIFE is a must.


And don't tell your wife until after you have already exposed her reaction will tell you all you need to know good or bad.


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## Hicks

You only expose to kill the affair. If it's already dead, then you don't expose. You don't konw right now if your wife is being truthful about wanting your marrige back or planning to go underground. 

You should tell the wife of the OM... that's a moral obligation.

Be ready to nuclear expose to everyone else. The minute you find any contact or breaking of any term you have set in your marriage, you expose. This shows your wife you are serious.

You have had a positive STEP 1. There are many men who don't even get a remorseful wife. They hear how they cuased it all and the wife wants a divorce. 

But STEP1 is only the first step in very tricky process. The next step is the NC Letter, The next step after that is you prove she is not lying about wanting her marriage back and trying to take the affiar underground. The next step after that is she is actively engaged in fixing her marriage to you... All of these things are evaluated over the course of time.


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## SoConfused1

Ok here's a few real quick things:
1. I don't have OM address nor does my wife. There are multiple listings for him and I don't know which one is for him. Can I send the NC letter via email? Problem is I don't know if the email address is active & if he checks regularly. 
2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family. I guess there is a mutual aqcuaintance via the OM's cousin and my wife is Facebook friend with this cousin (female). I don't want my wife dictating the terms and I do absolutely believe the OMW should be informed. Again I don't have her contact info. I'm at a loss here about how to get the right number and address due to the multiple listings. 
3. I feel like I am too accepting of this and willing to reconcile. Before all this, I always thought if my W cheated on me I would end up divorcing her immediately. Now that I'm in the reality of this and considering my kids, I feel quite different. I haven't let her on to this I keep telling her I don't know if I can move forward. What bryanp says stings a bit probably because there is a lot of truth to that. She did say she was trying to end it weeks ago which I don't believe for a second. And maybe I don't respect myself if I'm willing to reconcile. If there were no kids involved I would have given her the D papers last night. Ugh what am I thinking. I'm not sure what is right. 

Gotta get back to work now. Thx for all your feedback.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados

SoConfused1 said:


> 2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family. I guess there is a mutual aqcuaintance via the OM's cousin and my wife is Facebook friend with this cousin (female). I don't want my wife dictating the terms and I do absolutely believe the OMW should be informed. Again I don't have her contact info. I'm at a loss here about how to get the right number and address due to the multiple listings.


If there is not FULL disclosure, which ABSOLUTELY MUST include her family, then IMO your chances of R are slim. She is trying to rug sweep this as much as she can. She's worrying about being embrassed ? Well she SHOULD be ! That is all a part of true R from her and true healing for you.

Do not let her dictate terms !! SHE IS THE ONE WHO CHEATED !


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## OnTheRocks

Your WW's family and close friends SHOULD know what she has done. It creates major accountability, and prevents her from spinning the story later if you do end up divorcing. The OMW simply deserves to know what is going on in her marriage. Don't let her talk you out of this.


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## Machiavelli

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok here's a few real quick things:
> 1. I don't have OM address nor does my wife. There are multiple listings for him and I don't know which one is for him. Can I send the NC letter via email? Problem is I don't know if the email address is active & if he checks regularly.


Hire a PI or do your own legwork. PI is the easiest and it will be reasonable and take almost no time. They'll get you everything. Other than a no-contact, which needs to be written by your wife (you'd be amazed at what WW's will put in that) without a template, there is no reason to contact the OM about anything. Unless you beat the crap out of him, he's in the dominant position and you are just a supplicating girly man.



SoConfused1 said:


> 2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family.


Tough. Shoulda thought of that before she spread 'em.






SoConfused1 said:


> 3. I feel like I am too accepting of this and willing to reconcile. Before all this, I always thought if my W cheated on me I would end up divorcing her immediately. Now that I'm in the reality of this and considering my kids, I feel quite different. I haven't let her on to this I keep telling her I don't know if I can move forward. What bryanp says stings a bit probably because there is a lot of truth to that. She did say she was trying to end it weeks ago which I don't believe for a second. And maybe I don't respect myself if I'm willing to reconcile. If there were no kids involved I would have given her the D papers last night. Ugh what am I thinking. I'm not sure what is right.


Having kids or getting her to agree to help recruit more women for your harem are both reasons to reconcile. However, she doesn't seem too invested in getting your forgiveness. Don't be easy, make her work for it.

Did you change your haircut, build a physique, change your ride, and start going out at night? If not, start. She needs to understand that she can be replaced by three younger, hotter women in about 5 minutes. If that's not the case, you need to make it so.


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## azteca1986

SoConfused1 said:


> 2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family.


You should put your wife's mind at ease by telling them yourselves. Don't let her tell them without you present. All part of making sure the affair stays finished.


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## sandc

Yeah, you're forgiving her kind of quick. Which is fine for you but you can't let her know that. There HAVE to be consequences to this. Otherwise you just teach her that she can have sex with whomever she wants and you will get upset but that's about it.

I DO NOT normally recommend this but I think that just prior to talking to your wife about possible D or R, or any of the things you are expecting her to do... I think you need to listen to that VAR of her having sex again. It sounds like you need some anger. Righteous anger.


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## tom67

Her family should find out anyway too bad she is the one that cheated. You dictate the terms not her.


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## aug

I think your mind movies have not kicked in yet in your head. You heard the recording of them together - that in itself would be hard to overcome in the future. 

Reconciliation at this point is way too, too early.


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## sandc

Chapparal usually posts this so I'll give him the credit for it. Not sure he's on this thread though so here you go. Print this out and have your wife read it.

-----------------------------------------------

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.


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## NewM

Call all listed numbers until you get OMW.


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## t_hopper_2012

WHY are you not exposing to her family? The failure to do so will greatly increase the chances that she will cheat again or restart with the OM. Why shouldn't she? There appear to be NO consequences for her recent cheating.


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## FooledOnce

t_hopper_2012 said:


> WHY are you not exposing to her family? The failure to do so will greatly increase the chances that she will cheat again or restart with the OM. Why shouldn't she? There appear to be NO consequences for her recent cheating.


:iagree:


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## BWBill

You need to disclose this to the family whether you decide to divorce or to reconcile. If you decide to divorce then they should know the reason. If you try to reconcile and it fails, then the affair will have to come out then. Much better disclosing now.

Reconciliation is hard. It will impact your mood and the way you interact with your wife, family and friends. They will notice. Bottling it up will make you feel worse. If you tell family and friends they will at least be understanding and, hopefully, supportive.

Lastly, if you bear all the pain of your wife’s actions your natural resentment will be stronger and will eat at you much longer. Your chances of restoring your marriage will be decreased.


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## terrence4159

soconfused i just read you thread and im so sorry you are getting great advice....but you need to still expose this to her family...ASAP if not yesterday. right now you are not getting the whole story and i bet you they just take it underground.


i can give you 78,840 reasons why you need to expose. that # is the amount of child support over 18yrs i saved by outting my XW. my xw from a D family and her dads side wealthy her moms poor. well told one of her uncles she cheated, uncle told his mom (mrs money bags) and when xw went to her to fund her D her grandma told her to pound sand. long story short 50/50 custody and i pay 0 in child support (9yrs later i have our son 80% and her 20)


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## alte Dame

I think you are letting your W have too much control in your deliberations. Wrest control from her completely. Take the time to try to determine what is best for you and your kids. She is not trustworthy and cannot be a creditable partner for you in determining this. It is your decision to expose. She gets no say. It is your decision to demand and formulate the NC letter. She gets no say.

This is one instance in life where it really has to be your way or the highway for her. Don't show weakness now. If you let her negotiate with you, you will regret it very soon.


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## weightlifter

sigh again. out to family and CLOSE friends.

close friends message is simply. "part of my reconcilliation process is to admit to our close friends that i had an affair with fred flintone for 12 months until 3 days ago"

A bit more for family. you dont give a blow by blow ( er sorry lol) account.


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## SoConfused1

I'm really upset right now. I think the relief of getting this out was clouding my mind. After thinking about this all afternoon some things are just not adding up. Not to mention I think really overlooked the extent of this betrayal. This was an extended affair that lasted over six months. I still don't know when the physical part began yet and I need to find that out. But she keeps saying she made a mistake like it only happened once. I've really not thought enough about this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm really upset right now. I think the relief of getting this out was clouding my mind. After thinking about this all afternoon some things are just not adding up. Not to mention I think really overlooked the extent of this betrayal. This was an extended affair that lasted over six months. I still don't know when the physical part began yet and I need to find that out. But she keeps saying she made a mistake like it only happened once. I've really not thought enough about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Part of the consequence of cheating is coming clean. There is no way you will know the entire truth, and you may never get it, but you should be able to get a story that makes sense, with no inconsistencies, and that's when you know you've gotten something fairly close to the truth.

You are doing fine. You have to stress to her that the lying AFTER the affair is discovered does more damage to you than the actual affair itself. Tell her you need the truth, it's not fair that she knows it and you don't. It's as important to you as it is to her.

Her lying and minimizing is to be expected, every single cheater does it. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. It's like a law of nature or something. However, if it drags out much more than a few days or a week, and you still are getting the trickle truth, you may come seriously close to forgetting about reconciliation altogether.


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## sandc

It will take time for the truth to come out. Just know that she will lie and minimize for a while. You are in the drivers seat. Take your time and figure out what you really want.


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## FooledOnce

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm really upset right now. I think the relief of getting this out was clouding my mind. After thinking about this all afternoon some things are just not adding up. Not to mention I think really overlooked the extent of this betrayal. This was an extended affair that lasted over six months. I still don't know when the physical part began yet and I need to find that out. But she keeps saying she made a mistake like it only happened once. I've really not thought enough about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's only going to admit to the parts you know for sure. Don't stop digging.


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## Will_Kane

Cut and paste this into a word document and print it out for your wife.

By the way, delete your browsing history when you're done here, browse in private mode, but don't let your wife find this site.

_To Whomever, 

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. 

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes. 

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. 

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. 

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. 

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. 

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. 

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. 

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. 

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. 

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. 

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. 

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.​_


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I need and we need serious counseling. Has anyone used the info on here to start that process? I don't know where to start and don't have any referrals.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Affairs are similar to addictions. Many betrayed spouses here have had good exper iences with counselors who specialize in sex addictions, not because the cheaters have a sex addiction, but because ending an affair is like ending an addition. The cheater is hooked on the affair partner.

Interview the counselors. A bad counselor can do more harm than good. Ask the counselor if they have ever heard of Shirley Glass, perhaps the leading researcher on infidelity, and her book, Not Just Friends. If the counselor has heard of the book and thinks along the same lines as the book, then the counselor probably will be good for you. By the way, that's a good book for you and your wife to read.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok here's a few real quick things:
> 1. *I don't have OM address nor does my wife.* *There's no way she had an affair with him for six months and didn't find out where he lives. This is a lie.*There are multiple listings for him and I don't know which one is for him. Can I send the NC letter via email? Problem is I don't know if the email address is active & if he checks regularly.
> 2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family. *Your wife cares more about other man than about you. She is protecting him. This is one of the consequences of the affair. If her family is going to find out, then she should tell them with you present. Telling them by herself is not an option. Not telling other man's wife is not an option. Take working on the marriage right off the table until you get other man's address and contact his wife.*I guess there is a mutual aqcuaintance via the OM's cousin and my wife is Facebook friend with this cousin (female). I don't want my wife dictating the terms and I do absolutely believe the OMW should be informed. Again I don't have her contact info. I'm at a loss here about how to get the right number and address due to the multiple listings.
> 3. I feel like I am too accepting of this and willing to reconcile. Before all this, I always thought if my W cheated on me I would end up divorcing her immediately. Now that I'm in the reality of this and considering my kids, I feel quite different. I haven't let her on to this I keep telling her I don't know if I can move forward. What bryanp says stings a bit probably because there is a lot of truth to that. She did say she was trying to end it weeks ago which I don't believe for a second. *This probably is true. It's just that she was trying to end it because she knew eventually she would get caught, not because she wanted it to end. Every affair runs its course. Even if you never found out, it would have ended by itself eventually. Affairs rarely last more than three years. Her affair started when other man was doing a lot of work for you and seeing your wife when you were not around. How long ago was that? That's how long the affair has been going on.*And maybe I don't respect myself if I'm willing to reconcile. If there were no kids involved I would have given her the D papers last night. Ugh what am I thinking. I'm not sure what is right.
> 
> Gotta get back to work now. Thx for all your feedback.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have to live your life based on the situation you are in now, not what you thought you would do.

Take your time. Let your wife prove herself. Let her do the work of proving she wants to save the marriage. So far she's not doing too good. She's not going to save it by lying about not knowing the other man's address or protecting him over you by not wanting to tell his wife.


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm really upset right now. I think the relief of getting this out was clouding my mind. After thinking about this all afternoon *some things are just not adding up.* Not to mention I think really overlooked the extent of this betrayal. This was an extended affair that lasted over six months. *I still don't know when the physical part began* yet and I need to find that out. But *she keeps saying she made a mistake *like it only happened once. I've really not thought enough about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her it was not "a mistake," it was a series of numerous choices made over a long period of time. Tell her from now on when she talks about it to you, you want her to say she made a series of very bad choices over an extended period, not just that she made a mistake.

Ask her to write you a timeline of the affair. It should start with the first inappropriate comments, the first time they had sex, the first time they told each other they loved each other (yes, they probably did), the first time they told each other they missed each other (see if she tells you that they NEVER said that to each other), how frequently they met up, when, where, how, anything you want to know. SHE WRITES IT DOWN. Give her a few days to do this. (The no contact letter should be done in one sitting tonight - it takes about ten minutes with you telling her what to write and her writing it).

Tell her you MAY require her to take a polygraph as part of you accepting it as true if it doesn't make sense to you, because she lied to you and hid things from you for so long, you have no trust for her right now. She has to rebuild your trust by telling you the truth and then letting you verify it, even helping you verify it. Without rebuilding trust your marriage will fail. She must help you rebuild it. It's not going to come back by itself. Tell her that.

If she doesn't confess to the affair starting back when this guy did a lot of work for you, then don't believe her. If she sticks to this, then tell her you will need a polygraph in order to believe her.


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## SoConfused1

I'm imploding. I'm spent. I'm so hurt so confused so utterly destroyed right now. This has taken so much out of me already. I need to get in touch with OMW I need to get this NC letter done. Btw how do I get this NC letter to him? Thought someone mentioned hand delivery yet others have said don't face the OM. I'm so overwhelmed and concerned about doing what's right yet I can't seem to rescue myself to do it. HELP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars

Hand deliver it TO HER.

Do you still have the VAR in the car?

Keep checking it. There is much more to learn.


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## SoConfused1

So the letter is written to OM but I give it to OM's wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoConfused1

She's totally denied the affair going back over 2 yrs ago. If it really goes back that far then there's no when in hell I'm reconciling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoConfused1

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

send it snail mail or an email. The point is that your wife acknowledges that what she did was wrong and that the OM is a POS that she now hates, and you are way better then OM could every be.

Hel have it sent to his work......she writes you mail it. You do have his work address? I mean once you drop in the mail box there is no way your WW can take it back..... even if she tells the OM she didn;t mean it, the point is the Om will read some hurtful thing that she wrote that should be hard to take back...you know, something that will piss OM off.

So for now lets get past her writing an exceptable NC letter and getting it addressed envolope...you review the NC letter and seal the envolope and sent off to his office.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm imploding. I'm spent. I'm so hurt so confused so utterly destroyed right now. This has taken so much out of me already. I need to get in touch with OMW I need to get this NC letter done. Btw how do I get this NC letter to him? Thought someone mentioned hand delivery yet others have said don't face the OM. I'm so overwhelmed and concerned about doing what's right yet I can't seem to rescue myself to do it. HELP
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This isn't a race and there is no deadline.

These steps have worked for others.

The no contact letter is addressed to the other man. You mail it to him certified mail. You don't hand deliver it and you don't give it to his wife.

Your wife knows where he lives. If she won't tell you, file for divorce. There is no need for you to stay in the marriage if she is going to protect him over you.

The confrontation is the easy part for your wife. All she has to do is yes you to death. Now comes the hard part for her. She actually has to DO things to help you get over this. Number one on that list is the no contact letter. Forget about everything else at the moment.

If she is fighting you on the no contact letter, file for divorce.

She is supposed to be helping you. If she doesn't know his address, really doesn't know it, she should be suggesting ways you can find it out, like we are doing here - "hire a private investigator" someone posted. What is your wife saying? "Oh, too bad I don't know where he lives, I guess we can't do the no contact letter after all." NO. SHE KNOWS. OR SHE HELPS YOU FIND OUT. AND IS ON BOARD WITH THE NO CONTACT LETTER. OR YOU END THIS FARCE AND FILE RIGHT NOW.

If you have to fight this hard on every front, you're right, it gets exhausting. Don't do it. If she doesn't want to cooperate, just let her go. Tell her you will help her pack her stuff and she can call the other man and you will drop her off and he can take her in. As a matter of fact, why don't you just call him and ask him where he lives, tell him he wins, you have your wife here with all her baggage and you're ready to take her over to his house.

IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T FIGURED THIS OUT YET, it will turn out much better for you to be able to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE if you are willing to walk away from it.

Think of your wife as an expert poker player. No risk, no reward. Your wife cheated on you, she was willing to take a huge risk of losing her marriage. Right now, she is still willing to take a huge risk and drag her feet on all your requests and risk losing her marriage. BECAUSE SHE THINKS YOU WILL DO ANYTHING TO RECONCILE WITH HER. Despite all her words to the contrary. 

Time for actions, the time for words is over.


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> She's totally denied the affair going back over 2 yrs ago. If it really goes back that far then there's no when in hell I'm reconciling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When does she say the affair started?

She says this guy and her saw each other a lot over two years ago while he was doing work on your house, but they held off on having the affair until a time when all the work was done and they never saw each other any more? Is this the story she's telling? Does that make any sense to you?


----------



## the guy

SoConfused1 said:


> 2. My wife is afraid if I tell OMW that it could get back to her family. _Posted via Mobile Device_


If your wife is truely remorseful she will own her bull crap, and the only thing that she should be afraid of is lossing her husband.

I'm sensing she isn't owning her bad choices and is attampting to sweep this under the rug....moving on....looking towards the future....

This my friend is a set up for a repeat.After my wifes first affair it only took 5 years for her to go back to her old ways.

She didn;t learn a damn thing and never addressed her own individual issues and hid from her self.

it sucks but you have to face your bad self no matter who finds out. Its the ones who love you the most that are ashamed of you for what you have done and that give you the support to not do it again.


My mom and my sister know I use to beat my wife and it gives so much pain that I will never raise my hand to Mrs. the-guy again.... See the coilation with bad behaviors and owning them?


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## SoConfused1

No she says she didn't see him much when he was doing the work. And based on the experince she's probably telling the truth. She says it started around the end of last summer (Aug or Sept).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SoConfused1

Btw I'm pretty sure she will write the letter. She's stonewalling on the home address and fears exposure to OMW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> No she says she didn't see him much when he was doing the work. And based on the experince she's probably telling the truth. She says it started around the end of last summer (Aug or Sept).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did it start?


----------



## the guy

Have you seen any degree of submission on your WW part in letting you make the call with anything here? 

I mean she is avoiding consequences like the flu.........WITH OUT CONSEQUENCES BAD BEHAVIOR CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!

If she is truely remorseful she will stop protecting her reputation, stop protecting OM and submit to the choices that you are making in affair proofing her marriage, because as of now she is unable to do that.


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## carolinadreams

SC your emotions are going to be all over the place, like you I thought if my wife ever cheated on me it was a done deal - reality proved a little more complex.

You aren't going to sort this all out this weekend, it took my wife about 2 months to completely quit trickle truthing - cheaters are desperately trying to preserve at least a piece of their ego. I can guarantee you if your wife is not a sociopath she's feel miserable for betraying you now that the illusion of the affair has been lifted.

You may need to go see your doctor, and get prescribed anti-depressants, I did not but wish I had the first month. If you are not going to then I suggest you walk for 30 minutes to an hour a day before or after work. Take your wife and kids with you and make it a family activity. Good old fashioned exercise is an effective antidepressant.

You will absolutely not sort through all of this in a week, a month, or probably even a year. You don't even have to decide if you want to remain married right now. I encourage you to not make any big decisions in the next 6-months to a year.

The main thing in the meantime is that you create a place of safety, and accountability for yourself, wife and family in the interim. You know how to do that already.

If you miss some of the things that people tell you to do, it's going to be alright. The main thing is that you prevent the possibility of any relapse, recontact, and you continue to monitor your wife's activities until you two can reestablish trust.

You are going to be fine, you've been through a lot this week, but probably learned you were more capable than you had imagined.


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> No she says she didn't see him much when he was doing the work. And based on the experince she's probably telling the truth. *She says it started around the end of last summer (Aug or Sept).*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife knows exactly when it started. Probably to the day. If she is telling you things like "around the end of the summer, probably August or September," you know you are being lied to. When she gives you something very specific (the weekend before Labor Day), then you will know you have the truth. If she is throwing out "around August or September," I would guess it started some time earlier.

Think about your own relationship. Unless you met as children, if you met as adults, you probably remember pretty specifically when you met. You remember you met at John's party, which was on Memorial Day weekend. Your wife remembers the same thing with her cheating with the other man.


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## the guy

Will_Kane said:


> How did it start?


Like this:
[WW] my marriage sucks
[OM[ sorry can I help
[WW] thank you, your so nice
[OM] lets do lunch


Come on .....


maybe I'm wrong and your WW advertised on griags list?

When was the last time you ate brother?


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## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Btw I'm pretty sure she will write the letter. *She's stonewalling on the home address and fears exposure to OMW*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is protecting her other man. She doesn't care so much that you are hurting, but she wants to save him. She didn't stop her feelings for him just because you found out. But if she doesn't put those feelings aside and do the right thing for you, she's going to lose you.

The phase you are in right now, when the wife is being difficult and foot-dragging every step, is where most reconciliations fail. Later on, when she finally does agree to do what's needed, your give-a-sh1t already will be broken and you won't want to fix it.

First, tell your wife how important it is to you that this "no contact" letter be hand written and mailed certified mail to the other man's address. Tell her how important it is for you to know the address. Next, ask your wife if she thinks you should hire a private investigator to find out the other man's address. See what her reaction is and how she answers. Then, tell your wife that she either comes up with the address or you file for divorce. And that you are going to hire the private investigator anyway, so she might as well spill.


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## tom67

Will_Kane said:


> She is protecting her other man. She doesn't care so much that you are hurting, but she wants to save him. She didn't stop her feelings for him just because you found out. But if she doesn't put those feelings aside and do the right thing for you, she's going to lose you.
> 
> The phase you are in right now, when the wife is being difficult and foot-dragging every step, is where most reconciliations fail. Later on, when she finally does agree to do what's needed, your give-a-sh1t already will be broken and you won't want to fix it.
> 
> First, tell your wife how important it is to you that this "no contact" letter be hand written and mailed certified mail to the other man's address. Tell her how important it is for you to know the address. Next, ask your wife if she thinks you should hire a private investigator to find out the other man's address. See what her reaction is and how she answers. Then, tell your wife that she either comes up with the address or you file for divorce. And that you are going to hire the private investigator anyway, so she might as well spill.


Kick her out if she doesn't give you the [email protected] address, hire a pi for a day and you'll get all the info you need-ugh!


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## C-man

SoCon: You've made a good start - don't lose momentum by allowing your wife to stonewall. The only reason she is doing this is because she is afraid of the fallout for the OM. Not a good sign and should not be allowed to fester.

She's likely already giving the OM a headsup and is now stalling for time - still weighing what she should do.

You need to blow this up by full exposure - and she needs to disclose the address right away - or it's back to "pack your bags" time.


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## the guy

SoConfused1 said:


> Btw I'm pretty sure she will write the letter. She's stonewalling on the home address and fears exposure to OMW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should be driving this ship and her fears are miss placed.

Please take a day to step out, regroup and readdress your marraige as it relates to *you* and not her.

And this has nothing to do what we here @ TAM have to offer, but what you can make the call on were this marriage is going.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IT WILL BE YOUR CALL!!!!

But sir, you do have to make a call and I suggest you take the time as you see fit in making this call.

I say this cuz your old lady is positioning and you need to get your self together......as phucket up as this is the bottom lone is CHICKS DIG CONFIDENT MEN....AND YOU SIR ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.


Sorry for shouting but I can see your weakness so I know damn well your old lady see's it.


So please gather your self and take the time you need but in your chicks eyes she must see a man that has his sh1t together and that tactic is the only way she will second guess...think twice...and bounder the thought that she will lose you.

If your all jacked up there is a good chance she will think you ain't going anywere and continues to take the risks she has been taking.

Sir, she has to to see a new SoConfused1. Maybe it time to show her a SoConfident!

Ya it sucks ...been there, but dude you have to fake it to make it!

If she keeps seeing the same SoConfused1 she cheated on ...well then I think your family is screwed.

As painful as it is she must see that you can let her go.


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## the guy

I wish I could give you a magic pill to make it all better, but I can't its up to you and your perception that your old lady sees in the new you.

Another thing that sucks is most likely she won't like it cuz the old you let her get away with so much.

At the end of the day it will be her choice to deal with the new you and " do what ever it takes" or fight you from her on out.......and that ain't remorse!


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## dogman

SoConfused1 said:


> I'm really upset right now. I think the relief of getting this out was clouding my mind. After thinking about this all afternoon some things are just not adding up. Not to mention I think really overlooked the extent of this betrayal. This was an extended affair that lasted over six months. I still don't know when the physical part began yet and I need to find that out. But she keeps saying she made a mistake like it only happened once. I've really not thought enough about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brother, you've gone way too light so far. You WILL lose her. You look weak. 

You have the RIGHT to be hurt more as the shock wears off. 
If you don't go harder on her you may stay married but you will be the beta the rest of your life.

Reel this in and take control. 

Expose to EVERYONE. this is not your shame, it's hers, and if the shame is not felt, you will experience this all over again.

You heard her have sex with another man! How are you not in jail right now!

Your reaction is disturbingly passive.


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## weightlifter

Did you get the timeline done?

Did you find out roughly how many and where?


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## sandc

Stay strong for just a little longer SoConfused. Please realized that you may have to kick her out for her to realize the gravity of the situation.

Ask her one more time for the address, the NC letter, the timeline, whatever you want. If she tries to stall, if she says anything other than "Okay, when do you want it?" Then tell her to get out... AND. MEAN. IT.

Kick her out for a few days and then go dark on her. Do not respond to texts, emails, phone calls. Let her see what life will be like without you. This will also give you time to crash, cry, scream, get drunk, whatever.


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## BrockLanders

I would sit her down with a pad and paper and tell her she could either divulge the entire history of the affair in its entirety or she will be divorced. Any omissions will instantly cause divorce. She's clearly minimizing and trickle truthing you because there are no consequences for her actions.


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## Horizon

dogman said:


> Brother, you've gone way too light so far. You WILL lose her. You look weak.
> 
> You have the RIGHT to be hurt more as the shock wears off.
> If you don't go harder on her you may stay married but you will be the beta the rest of your life.
> 
> Reel this in and take control.
> 
> Expose to EVERYONE. this is not your shame, it's hers, and if the shame is not felt, you will experience this all over again.
> 
> You heard her have sex with another man! How are you not in jail right now!
> 
> Your reaction is disturbingly passive.


How does shaming her work to rebuild anything?


----------



## somethingelse

The problem I see here is this: your W has been doing this for half a year (from what she tells you). There are no signs indicating that this would have ended soon. Maybe a couple of years from now..maybe 6, who knows. Which tells me that she has absolutely no remorse and no conscience, she only has admitted out of desperation and your certainty. 

She is not disclosing because of fear and embarrassment, which is normal for a cheater. But she is friends with OM's cousin on Facebook? and doesn't want you to tell OMW for that reason? Now that's a bunch of horse manure. End that Facebook relationship right now.

It's not her decision what happens anymore. She needs to know that! If she was capable of making good decisions, she would not have had this A! So cut through all that crap right now, and start manning up. 

And because your W is not disclosing info, keep digging for it until she cracks. She needs to see how disgusting she has been, and how shameful it is, or else she will not feel remorse. And Remorse is necessary for her to feel disconnected to OM. At this point she still does not feel all that bad for what she has done (from what you've told us). She only feels bad that you caught her. She has no good conscience.

My advice is to start wrapping your mind around D...accept that it will happen unless EVERYTHING goes your way! Seriously....it will help you get what you want out of this more effectively if you can feel comfortable with the idea of it. Think of it this way...your W would still be messing around with OM unless you intervened. Isn't that pitiful? Be strong and stand your ground.


----------



## Iver

Keep checking the VAR in her car - my concern is she's giving the POSOM a heads up on the situation and working on a cover story for his wife.

You need to meet the OMW face to face and provide the evidence of the affair. If that means spending money on a P.I. to track her down then spend the money. It's time for the POSOM to eat some ****

That your wife is resisting this is really not a good sign. Unfortunately you do need to meet with a good divorce attorney to get a handle on how a divorce will impact you.

Also, don't hesitate to see your physician for something to address anxiety/insomnia as well...

This is a truly terrible situation you are in and you've done a fantastic job of dealing with it - don't forget that.


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## Iver

One idea - would the cousin on facebook know the POSOM's address? Have your wife request it from the cousin.


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## sandc

How are things going SoConfused?


----------



## 3putt

Horizon said:


> How does shaming her work to rebuild anything?


It's not about shaming though. It's about exposing the adultery for all to see. Affairs thrive in the darkness because they are based on fantasy. However, when that fantasy is exposed for all to see, the true nature of this so called fantasy all of a sudden gets real....and it ain't pretty. It's now adultery, and not a fairy tale.

It's pretty much akin to turning the lights on in a crack house. It's all fun and games until everyone is all of a sudden aware of what is going on and watching. Then the guilty parties go scrambling like a bunch of ****roaches.

The whole dynamic of recovery chances or advantages changes at that point. It also puts the BS back in control of the situation, which is very empowering for the betrayed at the time it's needed the most.


----------



## PastOM

I wonder, where is science to all of this shock treatment? Exposing, outing, shaming ... with no facts at hand. 

Yes tell the OMW, she deserves to know. Then find out the story, what is happening.

Some of the responses sound like Gestapo tactics with no clue as to the period, intensity, purpose of the affair.

*The poor guy must be reeling. *

Find out the information, using VAR, GPS, key logger etc. Ask for the emails, texts, videos etc. Put her in a corner and get past the gas-lighting, trickle truth and what have you for sure.

As for the rest, when and how to tell family members depends on reconciliation, both parties and discussion.


----------



## PastOM

somethingelse said:


> It's not her decision what happens anymore. She needs to know that! If she was capable of making good decisions, she would not have had this A! So cut through all that crap right now, and start manning up.


:scratchhead: Really? So the only good decision maker is the BS, only because of the decision not to have an affair? Beyond this she is an absolute moron, bereft of intelligence, devoid of cognition?

Thus by "manning up" he can take the lead, and show the idiot, moron, wench, why she should be publicly whipped ...

Is there no free will anymore? If she lies then divorce her, if she stays then she can't lie ...

I thought notions of servitude were stamped out long ago ...


----------



## 3putt

PastOM said:


> I wonder, where is science to all of this shock treatment? Exposing, outing, shaming ... with no facts at hand.
> 
> Yes tell the OMW, she deserves to know. Then find out the story, what is happening.
> 
> Some of the responses sound like Gestapo tactics with no clue as to the period, intensity, purpose of the affair.
> 
> *The poor guy must be reeling. *
> 
> Find out the information, using VAR, GPS, key logger etc. Ask for the emails, texts, videos etc. Put her in a corner and get past the gas-lighting, trickle truth and what have you for sure.
> 
> As for the rest, when and how to tell family members depends on reconciliation, both parties and discussion.


Sir, with all the due respect I can muster, you have know idea what you are talking about. You're a self admitted PastOM (I'm assuming from your user name), so I can see how your vision and stance would be skewed and distorted. But seriously, don't come around here to try and educate us folks that have been kicked in the gut and teeth by people like you. It's people like you that make us have to do these things. It's people like you that make us have to resort to these "Gestapo" tactics to try and repair what Neanderthals, like yourself, have demolished without guilt or conscience.

Quit messing around with other men's families, lives, and marriages, and we won't mess with yours.

Fair enough?


----------



## PastOM

3putt said:


> Sir, with all the due respect I can muster, you have know idea what you are talking about. You're a self admitted PastOM (I'm assuming from your user name), so I can see how your vision and stance would be skewed and distorted. But seriously, don't come around here to try and educate us folks that have been kicked in the gut and teeth by people like you. It's people like you that make us have to do these things. It's people like you that make us have to resort to these "Gestapo" tactics to try and repair what Neanderthals, like yourself, have demolished without guilt or conscience.
> 
> Quit messing around with other men's families, lives, and marriages, and we won't mess with yours.
> 
> Fair enough?


Fair enough ... seeing as you obviously know everything about my story, have at it. 

Was getting tired of typing with my huge hairy hands anyway.


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## MattMatt

I often get emails at work from women with XOXO on them. Most of whom I have never met and will never meet. They work in the PR industry.


----------



## PastOM

MattMatt said:


> I often get emails at work from women with XOXO on them. Most of whom I have never met and will never meet. They work in the PR industry.


In Spain, Brazil and Portugal it's common to end emails with "kisses" ... sometimes between same gender.


----------



## 3putt

PastOM said:


> Fair enough ... seeing as you obviously know everything about my story, have at it.
> 
> Was getting tired of typing with my huge hairy hands anyway.


Hey, you're the one that came on this board (without telling your story) chastising people for doing all they can to repair the destruction in their lives due to infidelity.

If you thought you were just going to post your thoughts (I assuming being a self-professed OM) and go unchallenged, think again. My life has been destroyed not once, but _twice_, by so called men like you.

Sorry, you'll get no quarter from me. At least not the way you are going about it right now.


----------



## PastOM

3putt said:


> Hey, you're the one that came on this board (without telling your story) chastising people for doing all they can to repair the destruction in their lives due to infidelity.
> 
> If you thought you were just going to post your thoughts (I assuming being a self-professed OM) and go unchallenged, think again. My life has been destroyed not once, but _twice_, by so called men like you.
> 
> Sorry, you'll get no quarter from me. At least not the way you are going about it right now.


3putt: I expect to be challenged, in fact I like it, but you start name calling and then there's no room for discussion - in my world anyway.

I'm sorry, truly sorry, for your pain and crappy situations. I assure you that neither of your problems were as a direct result of me. You are imputing your misfortune on me because you imagine that I am exactly the sort of guy that caused your pain.

Unfortunately, calling me a neanderthal, or feigning politeness with as much respect as you can muster, is really just an angry, ill thought out response to a stimulus. In fact, the same sort of response that I am questioning when used with SoConfused's wife. That sort of untethered, knee jerk, unthought out, capricious and very aggressive action that does more harm than good.

So, my comment was to give my perspective to the questioner about the validity, or scientific certainty of heavy handed tactics. Additionally, assuming that the wife is a moron and is unable to think for herself is probably, or at the very least 50% a mistake.

My comments were not designed to offend you, your sensibilities or to create the impression that I know more than you, because I clearly don't.

As for my story. To put it here now would only foster a predictable and a likely irrational response by you. After all, is this thread not intended for SoConfused?

Again, I am sorry for your pain, and if I am a trigger for it - it is not my intention to cause you discomfort.


----------



## 3putt

PastOM said:


> 3putt: I expect to be challenged, in fact I like it, but you start name calling and then there's no room for discussion - in my world anyway.
> 
> I'm sorry, truly sorry, for your pain and crappy situations. I assure you that neither of your problems were as a direct result of me. You are imputing your misfortune on me because you imagine that I am exactly the sort of guy that caused your pain.
> 
> Unfortunately, calling me a neanderthal, or feigning politeness with as much respect as you can muster, is really just an angry, ill thought out response to a stimulus. In fact, the same sort of response that I am questioning when used with SoConfused's wife. That sort of untethered, knee jerk, unthought out, capricious and very aggressive action that does more harm than good.
> 
> So, my comment was to give my perspective to the questioner about the validity, or scientific certainty of heavy handed tactics. Additionally, assuming that the wife is a moron and is unable to think for herself is probably, or at the very least 50% a mistake.
> 
> My comments were not designed to offend you, your sensibilities or to create the impression that I know more than you, because I clearly don't.
> 
> As for my story. To put it here now would only foster a predictable and a likely irrational response by you. After all, is this thread not intended for SoConfused?
> 
> *Again, I am sorry for your pain, and if I am a trigger for it - it is not my intention to cause you discomfort.*


Okay then, just what were your intentions? Regardless of my life and circumstances, I'm really not an unreasonable person. However, you really got off on the wrong foot here with me, and I'm sure quite a few others whose fuses are much longer than mine.

As I said, I'm not unreasonable. But I can't believe you would come to an emotional trauma ward like this and try to refute and dismiss all the tactics that are necessary to even give us a chance to repair what has been ripped from our hearts and lives. You have NO idea what we have been through. You have NO idea the pain you (and others) that is associated with this level of betrayal have caused. 

You just have no clue.

Look, if this is an attempt for some sort of serious redemption, or whatever you choose to call it, then tell your story. I'll listen and so will others. We'll take it from there on how to judge you. Just remember where you are.

Oh, as far as Neanderthal being an insult, I call my best friends Neanderthals. A far as feigning politeness, that was polite...for me anyway. And, no, that's not internet tough guy talking. I just don't want to get banned from this board for saying how I really feel. 

Like I said, you just don't get it.

I hope one day you do though.


----------



## PastOM

3putt said:


> Okay then, just what were your intentions? Regardless of my life and circumstances, I'm really not an unreasonable person. However, you really got off on the wrong foot here with me, and I'm sure quite a few others whose fuses are much longer than mine.
> 
> As I said, I'm not unreasonable. But I can't believe you would come to an emotional trauma ward like this and try to refute and dismiss all the tactics that are necessary to even give us a chance to repair what has been ripped from our hearts and lives. You have NO idea what we have been through. You have NO idea the pain you (and others) that is associated with this level of betrayal have caused.
> 
> You just have no clue.
> 
> Look, if this is an attempt for some sort of serious redemption, or whatever you choose to call it, then tell your story. I'll listen and so will others. We'll take it from there on how to judge you. Just remember where you are.
> 
> Oh, as far as Neanderthal being an insult, I call my best friends Neanderthals. A far as feigning politeness, that was polite...for me anyway. And, no, that's not internet tough guy talking. I just don't want to get banned from this board for saying how I really feel.
> 
> Like I said, you just don't get it.
> 
> I hope one day you do though.


But I do. You have no idea.



> you really got off on the wrong foot here with me


I really, really, really don't care what you think.

I didn't realize this board was either agree with me (or perhaps just you) or leave.



> try to refute and dismiss all the tactics that are necessary to even give us a chance to repair what has been ripped from our hearts and lives.


Please reread what I wrote and stop trying to be a bully - internet or otherwise, it does not work with me.


----------



## 3putt

Well, I won't speak for others, but it's pretty obvious to me you're more concerned about being right than being righteous. 

Whatever. 

Sorry I wasted my time and yours. I have better things to do than argue with you over what is obvious to most here. My sock drawer needs rearranging.

Take care.


----------



## somethingelse

PastOM said:


> :scratchhead: Really? So the only good decision maker is the BS, only because of the decision not to have an affair? Beyond this she is an absolute moron, bereft of intelligence, devoid of cognition?
> 
> Thus by "manning up" he can take the lead, and show the idiot, moron, wench, why she should be publicly whipped ...
> 
> Is there no free will anymore? If she lies then divorce her, if she stays then she can't lie ...
> 
> I thought notions of servitude were stamped out long ago ...


So what's your suggestion??


----------



## badbane

3putt and pastom enough already if you want to have it out do it in the PM's Past is right about not confronting until you have solid proof. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. WE all know if you expose to early it will back fire. Calling the omw would be a great idea. I don't want to see you get banned 3 so quit getting mad I am BS and I have seen you help a lot of people but you are mad and this is not the place this thread is for the OP and the OP only so cool it.

The exposing and gestapo tactics are used simply because of the fog past om. The affair fog or the dopamine high that gets people addicted to the affair is why you have to expose. I am sure you can relate that when you were in the affair everything between you and the woman you were with was amazing. two were perfect for each other and the grass was always greener. So how does a Husband compete with that. Simple he exposes the two of you and injects the fact that the relationship you two had was a complete mockery of the marriage. You know the years spent together, building a home together, raising kids, and making a life together. That's hard and puts stress on a marriage. Then a woman finds this guy she can run to get off with, talk to , and have no ties to without any complications because she has a nice safe home to go back to. It is wonderful to bad that in the process she has shattered her family, friends, and husband. 

Pastom I understand wanting to provide insight and it is welcome. However judging by your responses I would have to question whether or not you truly are a past om or currently practicing OM. I don't want a fight nor will I respond in this thread further on this topic if you wanna talk to me PM me and we can discuss our differences privately this thread is for confused1


----------



## PastOM

somethingelse said:


> So what's your suggestion??


Not qualified to proffer anything better. I just can't imagine treating a woman like a servant. Sorry.


----------



## PastOM

badbane said:


> The exposing and gestapo tactics are used simply because of the fog past om. The affair fog or the dopamine high that gets people addicted to the affair is why you have to expose. I am sure you can relate that when you were in the affair everything between you and the woman you were with was amazing. two were perfect for each other and the grass was always greener. So how does a Husband compete with that. Simple he exposes the two of you and injects the fact that the relationship you two had was a complete mockery of the marriage. You know the years spent together, building a home together, raising kids, and making a life together. That's hard and puts stress on a marriage. Then a woman finds this guy she can run to get off with, talk to , and have no ties to without any complications because she has a nice safe home to go back to. It is wonderful to bad that in the process she has shattered her family, friends, and husband.


Thank you for explaining ... that does make sense. Didn't really understand it before, but doing a lot of reading here and I see the strategy. 



> Pastom I understand wanting to provide insight and it is welcome. However judging by your responses I would have to question whether or not you truly are a past om or currently practicing OM.


Past ... regret it, and never again. Please see my other posts.

I am on the other side though. So it's perfectly understandable that BSs would have a problem with me. Trying my best to give the other side - thought it might help understand - perhaps not. 3putt's comments are reasonable given this and he should in no way get banned - that would be nuts.


----------



## dogman

Horizon said:


> How does shaming her work to rebuild anything?


You are mistaken. This isn't the BS shaming her. She shamed herself by cheating.
She is highly motivated to keep it secret from all who might judge her.
The shame is there and she needs to face it in order to illicit change. If a person doesn't feel the repercussions of what they've done, history shows, they will most likely backslide and become repeat offenders no matter what the crime/indescretion is.

The goal is to alter the behavior that is untrustworthy and marriage ending.


----------



## somethingelse

PastOM said:


> Not qualified to proffer anything better. I just can't imagine treating a woman like a servant. Sorry.


You're not qualified...ok, so don't offer ideas suggesting that I am talking about slavery. Because I'm not. It's called, people who are cheating are in a "fog" or "La La Land", caught up in emotion, illogical thinking, and hormones. Those of us who understand this, could relate to what I was saying in the first place. His W is not capable at this point to make good decisions, and needs some "push" to get out of her state of mind, because at this point she is completely consumed in lies and adultery. 

I was also suggesting that OP start "manning up" yes...which means, don't let her walk all over you, and get into gear for a long and bumpy road. 

And just so you know...I myself have been a cheater. I know first hand what a cheater thinks like. And also, my H was a serial cheater for 7 years. 

Based on what OP has told us, his W has been in a long term A...which tells me she doesn't have the conscience to know to stop. The only reason OP found out that she was cheating was because of the VAR. Some things are necessary to stop an A without having to D. I know this first hand. I myself am a very conscience aware naturally, so I never had to be told to stop my A's. I stopped on my own, and then divulged later out of guilt. But from what I read on OP's thread here...his W is in full mode still after "6 months" still. So do I need to spell that out?


----------



## HappyHubby

SoConfused1 said:


> No she says she didn't see him much when he was doing the work. And based on the experince she's probably telling the truth. She says it started around the end of last summer (Aug or Sept).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is before the 6 month no sex start.

I think you now know the fundamental reason sex dropped off completely. 

This another aspect of the betrayal that has to be addressed and amended over time.


----------



## C-man

Meanwhile, while the thread is being jacked, no word from the OP which, given his WS's attitude about contacting the OM, is not a good sign...

Any updates SoCon?


----------



## frozen

*Re: Re: Who do I talk to about possible infidelity?*



HappyHubby said:


> this is before the 6 month no sex start.
> 
> I think you now know the fundamental reason sex dropped off completely.
> 
> This another aspect of the betrayal that has to be addressed and amended over time.


Bingo. My wayward had me no sex for a month and it was the hardest thing, I was tormented at that time with rejection. (I did have sex once a week with her but it was by waking her up fingering her close to orgasm).


----------



## the guy

PastOM said:


> After all, is this thread not intended for SoConfuse


Interesting.

What has happened to SoCon?


----------



## Shamwow

Iver said:


> One idea - would the cousin on facebook know the POSOM's address? Have your wife request it from the cousin.


Totally. She doesn't know where he lives and her cousin is her friend? C'mon. Get that address and phone number and let OMW know. She will be extremely grateful and will have helpful info for you. At least most of the time...if she doesn't want to hear it don't take it personally. Just do it. Can't believe your W is saying she doesn't know where the d-bag lives after "knowing" him closely for at least six months. Trickle truth sucks...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoConfused1

Ok so the NC letter has been sent and the timeline (at least as she tells it) has been disclosed. I'm trying to figure out how I should tell the OMW. I have copies of the recording I can give her as proof, but I don't want such evidence in hands that I have no control over. 

I'm feeling a bit better today. Yesterday I was at the brink of exhaustion. I have an appetite again but my digestive system is a disaster.

My W has followed everything I've laid out so far. No contact with OM (at least as I can tell). She says she's very remorseful and feels so horrible for what she's done. As hard as it is to believe anything she says, I think there is truth to this. I can tell from her emotions and her reactions that this may be the case. 

I still have a huge problem with what she claims to be the truth about her relationship with the OM. I don't know if she is telling the truth and I'm sure there is more she is hiding. Some of this is for sure just lack of trust in her now, but there must be more. I've told her for this to work she must give me the whole truth. I so want to ask her more about what I heard in the recording but how do I do that without eluding to the fact I hid a VAR in her car? Plus how is it that the very first time I put the VAR in her car I caught them yet I'm told the frequency of their meetings was maybe once every 3 weeks to a month? BTW more VAR recordings have revealed nothing at this point. 

And btw while driving my child around today of course I was asked to play the fav song, which was playing during the recording of my W and the OM. I had to lie and say I don't have the song with me now because obviously I didn't want to hear it, even though at times its been running through my head like crazy. I felt awful for doing this.

I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.


----------



## LostViking

Better man? 

Your wife is the one who failed. Not you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HappyHubby

LostViking said:


> Better man?
> 
> Your wife is the one who failed. Not you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yeah. at least you remained faithful. perfect? of course not. better than her? abso fricken lutely. I dont think you should forget that fact at any point during R


----------



## HappyHubby

You might say to yourself, I wasnt intimate with my wife enough and she suffered and had to fulfill her needs elsewhere.... well HELLO. You like sex too right!!? You have needs?!?! how about her responsibility for fulfilling her husbands needs?!?! Oh right she was too busy fulfilling another mans.. 

Im sorry man. Dont beat yourself up. You dont deserve that. Be strong and self-righteous at this point. You have NO BLAME in the affair. 

the problems in the relationship were 50/50 but you didnt cheat so CLEARLY they are not a guaranteed cause for cheating. Poor character on the other hand is always a cause. It's THE cause. Selfishness.


----------



## LostViking

So Confused is going to let his wife rugsweep this whole affair.

I think he is so afraid of losing his marriage he is willing to roll over and dance to his wife's tunes. Already he is blaming himself for no reason other than he still has not admtted to himself that his wife IS very much the kind of person who could do this sort of thing. She is still on her pedestal.

And she's lying when she says she does not know where the OM lives. Please. Give us all a break.


----------



## jim123

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok so the NC letter has been sent and the timeline (at least as she tells it) has been disclosed. I'm trying to figure out how I wshould tell the OMW. I have copies of the recording I can give her as proof, but I don't want such evidence in hands that I have no control over.
> 
> I'm feeling a bit better today. Yesterday I was at the brink of exhaustion. I have an appetite again but my digestive system is a disaster.
> 
> My W has followed everything I've laid out so far. No contact with OM (at least as I can tell). She says she's very remorseful and feels so horrible for what she's done. As hard as it is to believe anything she says, I think there is truth to this. I can tell from her emotions and her reactions that this may be the case.
> 
> I still have a huge problem with what she claims to be the truth about her relationship with the OM. I don't know if she is telling the truth and I'm sure there is more she is hiding. Some of this is for sure just lack of trust in her now, but there must be more. I've told her for this to work she must give me the whole truth. I so want to ask her more about what I heard in the recording but how do I do that without eluding to the fact I hid a VAR in her car? Plus how is it that the very first time I put the VAR in her car I caught them yet I'm told the frequency of their meetings was maybe once every 3 weeks to a month? BTW more VAR recordings have revealed nothing at this point.
> 
> And btw while driving my child around today of course I was asked to play the fav song, which was playing during the recording of my W and the OM. I had to lie and say I don't have the song with me now because obviously I didn't want to hear it, even though at times its been running through my head like crazy. I felt awful for doing this.
> 
> I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.


Stop this talk. This is all on her. She is not perfect. She chose this.

We all have things to work on,

You are forgiving too soon. Do not let her blame shift
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok so the NC letter has been sent and the timeline (at least as she tells it) has been disclosed. I'm trying to figure out how I should tell the OMW. I have copies of the recording I can give her as proof, but I don't want such evidence in hands that I have no control over.
> 
> *Just tell her you have proof and tell her your wife confessed. Give her the facts you know. Don't say how you got the facts, let her know your wife confessed to it all.*
> 
> I'm feeling a bit better today. Yesterday I was at the brink of exhaustion. I have an appetite again but my digestive system is a disaster.
> 
> My W has followed everything I've laid out so far. No contact with OM (at least as I can tell). She says she's very remorseful and feels so horrible for what she's done. As hard as it is to believe anything she says, I think there is truth to this. *As long as her actions back up her words, you're good for now* I can tell from her emotions and her reactions that this may be the case.
> 
> I still have a huge problem with what she claims to be the truth about her relationship with the OM. I don't know if she is telling the truth and I'm sure there is more she is hiding. Some of this is for sure just lack of trust in her now, but there must be more. I've told her for this to work she must give me the whole truth. I so want to ask her more about what I heard in the recording but how do I do that without eluding to the fact I hid a VAR in her car? Plus how is it that the very first time I put the VAR in her car I caught them yet I'm told the frequency of their meetings was maybe once every 3 weeks to a month?  *This may be true. You may have just gotten lucky. One thing that struck me from when you posted their exhange you caught on the VAR was that there was no "I love you," but there were multiple "I missed you's." This points to less frequent meetings, definitely not every day at lunch - how infrequent I don't know, but 3 weeks to a month only makes sense if one or the other had logistical problems of getting together.*BTW more VAR recordings have revealed nothing at this point.
> 
> And btw while driving my child around today of course I was asked to play the fav song, which was playing during the recording of my W and the OM. I had to lie and say I don't have the song with me now because obviously I didn't want to hear it, even though at times its been running through my head like crazy. I felt awful for doing this.
> 
> I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. *No matter what, it was up to your wife to let you know how she felt. No one is perfect, not your wife, not you. It is possible that you were more at fault for the problems in the marriage than your wife, but she is completely at fault for the affair. She did have other options, like talking to you forcefully, separating, filing for divorce - not cheating.*While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.


----------



## BobSimmons

Dear oh dear...what a shame


----------



## Robsia

Stop it! It's not your fault. You were in the same marriage she was in and you didn't cheat. Stop thinking like that.


----------



## C-man

SoCon: It's not your fault she cheated - that was her choice.

However, it is good and healthy to examine the causes of the marriage breakdown. NO marriage is perfect and it takes two people to make it work. So I believe that you are doing the right thing by examining what you might have done differently because reconciliation (if this happens) will require changes so that the marriage is stronger.

But do not make the mistake of blaming yourself for the CHEATING. Cheating is a choice made by people who lack the character to face up to the harder task of communicating and working (together) to make things better or who lack the courage to end the marriage and simply walk away. 

Yes, you probably could have done more to make the marriage work (as we all could have) BUT you are married to a cheater. It is now up to HER to prove that she can change to your satisfaction. Meanwhile, you can make your own changes which will serve you well whether you rebuild with your current wife or start off fresh with somebody new.


----------



## SoConfused1

Let me just point out that I fully blame HER for the cheating. I've told her this many many times and believe me she knows I fully blame her and how disgusted I am with her about her actions & behavior. I just can't help feeling like a complete fool for allowing our relationship to get to a point where another man could come along and make her feel things that I should have made her feel. I cannot help feeling like a total fool and so inadequate now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

SoConfused1 said:


> Let me just point out that I fully blame HER for the cheating. I've told her this many many times and believe me she knows I fully blame her and how disgusted I am with her about her actions & behavior. I just can't help feeling like a complete fool for allowing our relationship to get to a point where another man could come along and make her feel things that I should have made her feel. I cannot help feeling like a total fool and so inadequate now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you bought the MMSLP book yet? It pretty much explains it all.


----------



## Hicks

Did your wife do a great job meeting your emotional needs in the marriage? Does she feel like a fool?

Do you think many people do a great job meeting their spouses emotional needs? Your thought process is very harmful to your marriage recovery.


----------



## SoConfused1

No, what book is that? I did read "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse" some article or exerpt someone posted here. 

And no I don't think my wife met all of my needs either. That doesn't change how I feel. And this isn't a thought process but it's only one of a myriad of feelings I'm experiencing these days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER its not actually what it looks like. You can download it at amazon.com or order the book.


----------



## SoConfused1

My wife's bday is this week. For weeks I've been telling myself not to get her anything. I still think that but just wonder how I handle this. Do I just tell her happy bday and that's it? Do I give her a card or letter telling her how I feel? Do I do anything? Or do I get her something great and get flowers and other nice gestures to make her feel guilty?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jfv

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife's bday is this week. For weeks I've been telling myself not to get her anything. I still think that but just wonder how I handle this. Do I just tell her happy bday and that's it? Do I give her a card or letter telling her how I feel? Do I do anything? Or do I get her something great and get flowers and other nice gestures to make her feel guilty?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask yourself, Does she deserve anything for her birthday? 

It is to soon to start getting her gifts or flowers for ANY reason.

If you did it this close to d day you'd be sending the wrong message.


----------



## the guy

As long as you can confirm she is not contacting OM then do something nice but *only* if she has maintained NC with OM.


----------



## walkonmars

let the kids get her something. You have no reason at all to celebrate anything. It's not a punishment, it's just not being hypocritical. 

When's your anniversary? same thing there.


----------



## the guy

Let the VAR be your guide.


----------



## jim123

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife's bday is this week. For weeks I've been telling myself not to get her anything. I still think that but just wonder how I handle this. Do I just tell her happy bday and that's it? Do I give her a card or letter telling her how I feel? Do I do anything? Or do I get her something great and get flowers and other nice gestures to make her feel guilty?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get her one of the recommended books on this site.

She does not think like you do, a nice gift will not make her feel guilty, only empower her. OM may contact her as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PastOM

I would get her something small and meaningful, like a small picture frame with a wedding photo / children / family in it. The birthday card should have the Happy Birthday printed in it - just write "from your children, and [your name] and make sure not to use your nic-name "honey bunny" or the word "husband" - just use your first name. 

I do think the book from this site is a fabulous idea with an inscription stating: "To help you down your path - [your first name]." 

I would follow the advice here - stay away from emotions, ILYs and all the rest. No hugs, or kisses. Be strong and distant - let here know that you know it's her birthday, but that fact has no impact on the fact that she has lost you.

Be aware that the OM will try to contact her to impress her. He will use this to show how much he cares for her. He'll probably get creative about it. *There has not been sufficient time between Dday and now for that NOT to happen.* Remind her that ANY AND ALL contact is prohibited - breaking NC is a clear violation and rejection of reconciliation.

Good luck!


----------



## somethingelse

SoConfused1 said:


> I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.


It's nice to think sometimes that there is a reason for why she cheated with OM. You may think it has something to do with your treatment towards her. This might give you comfort because you feel you have a little more control over whether your W will cheat again no? even the thought of her doing this for a reason makes it seem a little better....at least that's how I used to interpret my H's behaviour. But it's not you that influences her behaviour. 

Cheaters justify their choices no matter how good of an H you are. Even if you aren't perfect, there is no good reason for their actions anyway. I'm just recommending that you don't take the blame for this, because I've been where you are believe me, many times. I would say if you are thinking to work on yourself more, do it for yourself, don't do it for your W. 

And for her birthday, if you are looking to be kind towards her, get her a nice bouquet of roses (if she likes them). Flowers are beautiful and a nice gesture.


----------



## SoConfused1

Where do I find th recommended books? Other than a couple mentioned in this thread, which are more for me, where do I fins the recommended readings meant for a WW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Try Amazon.com


----------



## Will_Kane

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife's bday is this week. For weeks I've been telling myself not to get her anything. I still think that but just *wonder how I handle this*. Do I just tell her happy bday and that's it? Do I give her a card or letter telling her how I feel? Do I do anything? Or do I get her something great and get flowers and other nice gestures to make her feel guilty?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You found out on April 9, after she lied to you about it.

This is a tough call even many months after d-day, you are not even many days out.

If you are trying to reconcile, then I think you get her a card, but you might have to make it yourself out of construction paper, because I don't think Hallmark makes one that says, "from a faithful husband to his cheating wife on her special day, you've stopped banging the other man, have a great day, you deserve it!"

So get her a card from the kids, get her a gift from the kids, nothing big, a gift card to starbucks, something along those lines. You can get her a card too, stick to a really really simple one, you might have to skip the husband-for-wife kind and just get one from the rack where you would get a card for an acquaintance that just says "happy birthday."

Don't dance around the fact that it's hard for you to have to celebrate her birthday so soon after she has ripped your heart out. You might want to tell her just that, "I'm finding it hard to work up much enthusiasm for celebrating your birthday so soon after you ripped my heart out, but I got you this card and I really do hope you have a happy birthday."

Has your wife been cooperative? Is she still telling you she doesn't know where other man lives? Did you ever find out where other man lives? Did the "no contact" letter get mailed yet? Did you ever tell other man's wife about the affair?


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## VFW

I think a small, but thoughtful gift is in order from you. I think flowers would be nice from the children (not red roses) and a card from all of you. She is not 5 years old and she can't be expecting a lot anyway. This is not a reward, it is an acknowledgement. It is a time you need to be on guard from OM to reach out to her.


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## SoConfused1

She has been cooperative. She doesn't know where he lives but knows where he works and that is where the NC letter was sent. Honestly, if I was having an affair I wouldn't divulge where I lived so I can buy this. The meetings were near my wife's place of work cuz he was doing a job in the same area. 

This is extremely difficult for me and I mentioned to her already I have ZERO enthusiasm about her birthday. This hit her pretty hard which was the desired effect. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting her anything, not even flowers. Is this a good idea? I don't know but like you said not even 7 days ago was she with another man so why on earth do I want to get her anything even if it is her birthday.

There are other factors complicatng this entire situation and I cannot really divulge them for fear of possibly revealing identities if someone we know were reading this.

I have not told the OMW yet but definitely plan to very soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

I don't think you should feel compelled to celebrate her birthday. Let the kids celebrate.

I think you approached it the right way. Just tell her that given recent events you do not wish to celebrate anything.


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## barbados

SoConfused1 said:


> This is extremely difficult for me and I mentioned to her already I have ZERO enthusiasm about her birthday. This hit her pretty hard which was the desired effect. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting her anything, not even flowers. Is this a good idea? I don't know but like you said not even 7 days ago was she with another man so why on earth do I want to get her anything even if it is her birthday.


I'm sorry but I have to say this : "Are You F-ing kidding me ?" You wife has been getting laid by another man, and you are actually concerned about her birthday ???.

Get her some Divorce papers for her birthday !!!!

Flowers ??? Make sure they are dead and say in the card "This is what you did to our marriage !!!"


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## carolinadreams

There's a point where this board is helpful, and there's a point where people should say - take a breath and process.

Confused has been running on overdrive, and adrenaline. From his first post on this board to where he is at has just reached 7 days.

You probably need to take a week off and sleep. I've mentioned it before, but go see your doctor and see what he suggests. Stress is a killer, and will grind you down.

When a person is in denial, the heavy hand is useful to shock them into focus. I would imagine he has reached the point of fatigue and overwhelmed. You aren't going to sort through your marriage and all the emotions in a week. Don't try to. Just make sure no further damage is done, you monitor, and get some rest!


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## warlock07

Take a moment off. Switch off your brain. Lay back, relax and observe. You don't have to make a decision right away.

As Conrad would say, stay at 50,000 ft and observe


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## badbane

somethingelse said:


> You're not qualified...ok, so don't offer ideas suggesting that I am talking about slavery. Because I'm not. It's called, people who are cheating are in a "fog" or "La La Land", caught up in emotion, illogical thinking, and hormones. Those of us who understand this, could relate to what I was saying in the first place. His W is not capable at this point to make good decisions, and needs some "push" to get out of her state of mind, because at this point she is completely consumed in lies and adultery.
> 
> I was also suggesting that OP start "manning up" yes...which means, don't let her walk all over you, and get into gear for a long and bumpy road.
> 
> And just so you know...I myself have been a cheater. I know first hand what a cheater thinks like. And also, my H was a serial cheater for 7 years.
> 
> Based on what OP has told us, his W has been in a long term A...which tells me she doesn't have the conscience to know to stop. The only reason OP found out that she was cheating was because of the VAR. Some things are necessary to stop an A without having to D. I know this first hand. I myself am a very conscience aware naturally, so I never had to be told to stop my A's. I stopped on my own, and then divulged later out of guilt. But from what I read on OP's thread here...his W is in full mode still after "6 months" still. So do I need to spell that out?


Someday dig would be a great person to connect with his situation is similar. The truth is that your are likely to hear more and more about the affair the longer you push. I would not stop looking for evidence and verify everything that she does. Look whatever she has told you is likely not everything. I guess it is a WS way of trying to lessen the blow by slowly pouring out details over time. What the WS doesn't know is that by doing so, every time they come clean about another detail, it throws the BS backwards as for a R is concerned.


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## Shaggy

SoConfused1 said:


> Btw I'm pretty sure she will write the letter. She's stonewalling on the home address and fears exposure to OMW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't want to hear this, but you are being played by your wife.

She clearly cut you off from sex 6 months ago because she didn't want to betray the OM. Even before that she was refusing to let you finish in her, again because she did not want to betray him.

Does that sound like a wife who felt nothing for the OM?

Now, the reason why she is stone walling exposing him, us that she fears he will dump her forever is you cause him problems. 

Her strategy is to absorb the blame, and make a nice show of choosing you, meanwhile the OM and her no doubt are keeping in touch either through work phones, or a burner, or some other means.

The NC letter you sent, is likely just a good laugh for the OM at this point. He knows that she chose him months ago when she cut you off dry.

Has she offered you sex since being caught? I'm guessing she hasn't.

She's trying to keep it quiet and rug sweep it. 

I'm betting that if they haven't met up already since Dday, they will very soon.

Don't confuse tears of being caught with actual remorse.

My advice, without telling your wife hire a PI. Get all the details in the OM.

Meanwhile, demand a polygraph. Ask about how long, ask about other men, and ask is they are still in touch, and still planning to meet up again.

When you have OMW details, go to her home during the day, introduce yourself and play the recorder. It's even better if you bring a copy of the NC letter and leave it with the OMW.

Post the OM on cheaterville.com, don't embellish or elaborate anything. Then send a link to the OMs friends and family if you can him on FB.

Most is all, you need to see what is really doing down here. Your wife cut you off because she wouldn't cheat on the OM. Do you really think she's ended her affair just like that?

The thing your wife fears right now, isn't loosing you. She already gave you up for him months ago. Right now your wife fears loosing her OM if he throws he under the bus to safe himself.

By hiding the truth and rug sweeping for her, you are helping preserve her relationship with the OM.


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## sandc

The WS almost never reveals the full truth right away. Sometimes they say it is because they already see how hurt you are and don't want to hurt you more by revealing more than what you already know. I think in almost all cases a big factor in them holding back facts is because they are afraid of looking even worse to you than they already do. 

They just don't get it.


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## carolinadreams

sandc said:


> The WS almost never reveals the full truth right away. Sometimes they say it is because they already see how hurt you are and don't want to hurt you more by revealing more than what you already know. I think in almost all cases a big factor in them holding back facts is because they are afraid of looking even worse to you than they already do.
> 
> They just don't get it.


Absolutely, once shame is functioning again it generally causes trickle truth for a bit, as the wayward spouse become aware of what they have done to you, to the family, and not insignificantly to them!


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## The-Deceived

Getting her ANY kind of gift will make her lose even more respect for you. Man, I wouldn't even acknowledge it, let alone celebrate it.

"Wow, I betrayed him in the worst way possible and he still got me a birthday gift". DO NOT SEND HER THIS MESSAGE!!!


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## sandc

SoCon,
I started to say you know your wife... ha. From what you know of your wife, is she more likely to react as TheDeceived anticipates or is she likely to feel guilty given the fact that you treat her with kindness even though she acted evil? I know my wife is most likely to react in the latter manner. But it seems like most of the women who betray here on TAM seem to act in the former.

I guess it boils down to, does she have a conscience and is it working?


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## Shaggy

Zero gift. If she is still with you next year then you can make it up to her, but right now absolutely nothing is what is appropriate.


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## the guy

I still think you should get her a little something...like a collar that has rhinestones on it the spell out"sex slave"...chicks like sparkle thing.

IDK I guess I'm wired different then most and how I deal with my FWW's R with me!!!!!!!

Think about it, its a gift that makes a statement...you want sex more and your WW is no a slave to transparency and accountablity.....

The two necessities to keep the betrayed from kicking the wayward to the curb.

Again maybe its just me?


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## happyman64

SoConfused1 said:


> Ok so the NC letter has been sent and the timeline (at least as she tells it) has been disclosed. I'm trying to figure out how I should tell the OMW. I have copies of the recording I can give her as proof, but I don't want such evidence in hands that I have no control over.
> 
> I'm feeling a bit better today. Yesterday I was at the brink of exhaustion. I have an appetite again but my digestive system is a disaster.
> 
> My W has followed everything I've laid out so far. No contact with OM (at least as I can tell). She says she's very remorseful and feels so horrible for what she's done. As hard as it is to believe anything she says, I think there is truth to this. I can tell from her emotions and her reactions that this may be the case.
> 
> I still have a huge problem with what she claims to be the truth about her relationship with the OM. I don't know if she is telling the truth and I'm sure there is more she is hiding. Some of this is for sure just lack of trust in her now, but there must be more. I've told her for this to work she must give me the whole truth. I so want to ask her more about what I heard in the recording but how do I do that without eluding to the fact I hid a VAR in her car? Plus how is it that the very first time I put the VAR in her car I caught them yet I'm told the frequency of their meetings was maybe once every 3 weeks to a month? BTW more VAR recordings have revealed nothing at this point.
> 
> And btw while driving my child around today of course I was asked to play the fav song, which was playing during the recording of my W and the OM. I had to lie and say I don't have the song with me now because obviously I didn't want to hear it, even though at times its been running through my head like crazy. I felt awful for doing this.
> 
> I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.


Just ask her about their conversation in the car. Tell her the PI you used listened to them talking and gave you the dialogue.

BS her just like she is still BSing you.

Believe me, she will believe you. You have her dead to rights. And until she is completely honest with you then there is no marriage to reconcile.

Keep pressing.


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## happyman64

SoConfused1 said:


> My wife's bday is this week. For weeks I've been telling myself not to get her anything. I still think that but just wonder how I handle this. Do I just tell her happy bday and that's it? Do I give her a card or letter telling her how I feel? Do I do anything? Or do I get her something great and get flowers and other nice gestures to make her feel guilty?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. Give her her new smartphone. Tell her it has GPS turned on and records her conversations.

And tell her when she is out to send you a picture of her whereabouts and who she is with.

Happy Bday Honey!


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## somethingelse

How is everything going SoConfused?


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## SoConfused1

There are good days and not so good days. It is so difficult coping with these conflicting emotions of love for my wife along with the hurt of her betrayal. I don't know how to act toward her sometimes. 

We have been very intimate most nights for the past couple weeks without having actual intercourse as she hasn't had her dr. appointment yet to get tested. She had to reschedule her previous appt for a number of reasons. 

For her birthday I gave her the Shirley Glass book and that was it. She has not started reading it yet which is a bit disappointing but I will make sure she does and I realize how busy she is.

She has had no contact with the OM since I confronted her, so far as I can't tell. Continuous monitoring with the VAR has confirmed that, so much as it can being limited to her car. She did make one stop the other day after work that rose my suspicion but she told me it was just a quick stop to get a couple of things at the store. She claims it was quicker than what I think it was based on the recording, but it wasn't longer than 15 minutes so I'm not totally sure what it was. She did volunteer to get a smart phone so I can track her location at all times. She has been open about everything showing me receipts and anything I ask for so it seems she is staying true to me but of course I have continuous doubts because of the betrayal. And this is something I am finding extremely difficult to
deal with. The constant monitoring and wondering and doubting about her actions even though she may be totally true to me. I don't know how long I can handle this and if it could cause me to end our marriage. It is the panic and anger that rushes through me when I think something wrong is taking place only to realize I was totally overreacting. Is it worth it? I thought so and still want to think it is, but I'm starting to have doubts if it really is. For the sake of my family it is, but if I cannot return to some form of normal at some point I don't know what will happen. I realize it is still early and it will take a long time, I'm just hoping I can stick it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER yet?

It doesn't sound like it.

Have you been working out.....................hard?

Have you seen your MD?

IC that understands PTSD?


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## Chaparral

By the way, she could be contacting him at work. There are many, many ways to cheat using work as a back up.

Brickstone has a pen VAR that has worked wonders for people. 

I can't remember, did you out the OM? Put him on cheaterville.com?

You realize this is war and anything is fair?


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## jerry123

Yeah, definitely keep monitoring with VAR for the next few weeks. I have a pen recorder that works great. I think I bought it through cheaters spy shop .com. 12 hour battery one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

You know, it may not work out. If you can come to some sort of mental peace with that, it might make things easier.

She did this to your marriage, no matter how much you want to look to yourself sometimes. She brought you both to this place and it simply is what it is.

So, if you can, try to give up the burden and pressure and tension of trying to make it come out 'alright.' The truth is that it will never be perfect again. By definition, after infidelity it can never go back to that place of innocent trust.

Work on yourself for yourself. It's really your life after all. Be determined to make it as good as you can make it.


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## PieceOfSky

Sorry if this has been covered. If you have a desire for more facts about contact via cellphone, what carrier does her phone use?

Btw, sorry you are in this situation.


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## AngryandUsed

SoConfused1,

I am sorry you are in the place where we were. I can feel more closely what you are going through.

My worry is you may be rugsweeping her affair. I hope you are not doing it. Dont decide on R or D, now. Take your time.

She has been cheating for several moths (16 months?).

I get the feeling that you did not get a full disclosure. She seems to be regretting that she was caught - but you dont know why cheated at all. 

There are many more things to be known. Especially why your wife is dithering when it comes to your contacting OMW.

Take care.
AU


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