# Is Porn jusitifiable?



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.

Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The two of you should discuss it. IMO, porn won't be a lasting substitute for what's lacking in your sex life. Either you both need to find a way to make things more interesting, or divorce. Clearly she may benefit from therapy to get over her past hurts; if she won't, then your options are limited and/or self-limiting.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


If she finds those sex acts unappealing, then they are gross and humiliating and violating to her. If you hadn't been watching porn to begin with, you wouldn't be wanting to do all that stuff. She has every right to say no to anything she doesn't want to do. Sounds like she's been honest about it so if it's not something you can live with, admit you made a mistake and go find a different kind of woman. You'd probably both be happier. Go find yourself a woman who will watch porn with you and doesn't have any limits.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she finds those sex acts unappealing, then they are gross and humiliating and violating to her. If you hadn't been watching porn to begin with, you wouldn't be wanting to do all that stuff. She has every right to say no to anything she doesn't want to do. Sounds like she's been honest about it so if it's not something you can live with, admit you made a mistake and go find a different kind of woman. You'd probably both be happier. Go find yourself a woman who will watch porn with you and doesn't have any limits.


First, I've already clarified in the question that I wasn't expecting anything outside the norm. Secondly, I am interested in helping create positive experiences from what is normal sex. Third, if I am going to spend my life unfulfilled with her, there will eventually be no commitment. I would expect the same if I wasn't willing to meet her needs. At some point, she would tire at not being fulfilled., just because I couldn't be bothered. Love goes both ways, not just doing what one person within the couple wants and leaving the other person perpetually unfulfilled. 

I'd rather keep the marriage, but not at the expense of my soul.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There are some men on this forum who claim they want sex because it makes them feel love and they can't feel love without sex, but then some of those same men threatened divorce or stopped helping out around the house to coerce the wife back into having sex again, and that certainly did not get them love. It got them reluctant sex. It certainly did not make their wives love them more and just built resentment. So the only conclusion to be drawn by that is that they weren't really having sex to feel loved since they further eroded love to get sex. I mean they claim to only feel love when they're having sex but I can assure you that just because the resentful wife is having sex does not make her love you again. Just the opposite. So that is why I don't believe all that nonsense men say about that.
> 
> So just be careful taking advice from those men who may be suggesting the 180 or to just stop contributing to maintaining day to day living together.
> 
> Your situation has some complexities that need to be sorted out before you can even get a clear picture. And I think you're a good enough man to see that through and wish you all the luck.


That's why I suggest giving attention and gifts, without preconditions attached. It takes time to build up trust again. However, there is a limit, if she is not responding to acts of courtship. The relationship could very well be over in her mind.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So she used to do it and won’t do it with you

I guess it depends on what it is. If you’re talking mainstream stuff like oral or anal this is a fairy common problem folks post about here.

Ultimately if her answer is no, it’s no. I don’t think there’s anything you can do to change her mind if she really doesn’t want to.

So with that said, if you’re happy with porn then why not?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So she used to do it and won’t do it with you
> 
> I guess it depends on what it is. If you’re talking mainstream stuff like oral or anal this is a fairy common problem folks post about here.
> 
> ...


It's certainly better than the alternative. 

I think most women, who have trouble fulfilling reasonable demands for their partner, are either imprinted on whom they had sex with before and perhaps want to keep that act kind of special as a remembrance of whom they did it with or they have a negative experience, such as a rough boyfriend who didn't care if he caused her backside to prolapse as long as he got his jollies. 

It hurts her marriage, because she can't be a full partner for her man. 

I've noticed that many of the evidences these women give as proof of their love for their spouse just happens to be what she values in the relationship, which suggests that she really doesn't value what her partner wants and needs.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> First, I've already clarified in the question that I wasn't expecting anything outside the norm. Secondly, I am interested in helping create positive experiences from what is normal sex. Third, if I am going to spend my life unfulfilled with her, there will eventually be no commitment. I would expect the same if I wasn't willing to meet her needs. At some point, she would tire at not being fulfilled., just because I couldn't be bothered. Love goes both ways, not just doing what one person within the couple wants and leaving the other person perpetually unfulfilled.
> 
> I'd rather keep the marriage, but not at the expense of my soul.


Expecting your spouse to just perform your sexual fantasies is not love. Obviously what's normal to you isn't normal and ordinary to her. The time to find out about sexual compatibility is before you get married and certainly before you have children.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> That's why I suggest giving attention and gifts, without preconditions attached. It takes time to build up trust again. However, there is a limit, if she is not responding to acts of courtship. The relationship could very well be over in her mind.


Yes it could. Just judging from what a lot of people say on this forum about trying to win their way back into their wife's bed by catering to their every need and giving them things, that's certainly no guarantee that that will work. They know why you're doing it. Best to see if you can sort it out before you have children at least.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Expecting your spouse to just perform your sexual fantasies is not love. Obviously what's normal to you isn't normal and ordinary to her. The time to find out about sexual compatibility is before you get married and certainly before you have children.


But expecting your spouse to be the cuckold is love.
Unfortunately many women lie about what they are willing to do and then they withdraw affection for no reason. We did discuss our desires and we seemed compatible, but after the marriage we were suddenly not compatible. 

It's not because I'm a bad husband. I've never denied her affection, the way she needs it and I'm always there for her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I wanted to do anal with my wife. She happened to have mentioned that, “I have to really be in the mood for it.” So that means she did it in the past.

It probably took me a couple years of trying before I found the right situation where she was in the mood and tried it. I used the mind movies of it for a couple days to take care of myself and now I can’t even remember it and didn’t really care to repeat it, juice is not worth the squeeze.

With that said she has done (with me) all of the stuff I wanted at least once. So I have no complaints about that.

It did bother be for those couple years trying to crack the code for when she’d be in the mood. She probably wasn’t and just did it so I’d stop asking, which is probably what she did with previous partners.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Read this: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*. I think you'll get more than a few "ah ha" moments from it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes it could. Just judging from what a lot of people say on this forum about trying to win their way back into their wife's bed by catering to their every need and giving them things, that's certainly no guarantee that that will work. They know why you're doing it. Best to see if you can sort it out before you have children at least.


For me, there is no hidden agenda. I desire to meet her needs on her term, but there is a limit to that if she is unwilling to meet my needs on my terms as well at any point.
It's not pro-quid-pro. That's not my expectation.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

dadstartingover said:


> Read this: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*. I think you'll get more than a few "ah ha" moments from it.


I defintiely will read it. Thank you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> But expecting your spouse to be the cuckold is love.
> Unfortunately many women lie about what they are willing to do and then they withdraw affection for no reason. We did discuss our desires and we seemed compatible, but after the marriage we were suddenly not compatible.
> 
> It's not because I'm a bad husband. I've never denied her affection, the way she needs it and I'm always there for her.


You can do absolutely everything right and be a great husband and still not be sexually compatible.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> For me, there is no hidden agenda. I desire to meet her needs on her term, but there is a limit to that if she is unwilling to meet my needs on my terms as well at any point.
> It's not pro-quid-pro. That's not my expectation.


She's a woman and a wife, not a sex worker. I'm sure she doesn't see performing whatever you want sexually as her duty.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.


I think you are asking the wrong questions and are coming from the wrong mindset. The real issue here is not whether porn can be a healthy outlet for one's sexuality (the answer to that is 'NO' BTW) 

The question you should be asking yourself is whether you even want to be with a woman that is not sexually attracted to you. .....and if the answer to that is that you would at least like to try, then you need to be asking what can make you more attractive to her in her eyes. 

I'm going to challenge some of your core beliefs and assumptions here and challenge you to give what I am saying some sincere contemplation. 

Unless your wife was outright assaulted and attacked, or drugged at the club and hauled out to a white cargo van, the chances are the reasons she is not sexual with you because she is hurt and has negative memories of those events, but that her memories of those times are GOOD and she doesn't feel the same way sexually towards you that she did those other men. 

Women typically break rules for men they are attracted to and make rules for the men they are not attracted to. 

If she was sowing her oats in her younger days, it was likely with the hot guys and jocks etc on campus and the sexual activities she was engaging in were not only consensual but probably downright enthusiastic. 

Again, assuming she was whacked over the head and abducted or wasn't actually sexually assaulted, the activities were consenting and likely enthusiastic. 

The hurt and negative memories are probably not from the sex, but rather from being rejected from having relationships with those guys. In other words the sex was consensual and enthusiastic and enjoyed. It was when they didn't call the next day and were with another girl the next night when the pain and consternation came in. 

Now if there is actual incidents of forced or coerced, non consensual acts, then she needs professional assessment and treatment. 

But if it is a case of the Big Man On Campus and the jocks not calling her the next day and you are the "Nice Guy" and the safe, stable guy that she knows will be in a relationship with her and not pump and dump her but she just isn't all that sexually attracted to you - then it's something completely different. 

--- And either way, you withdrawing into a life of porn is not the treatment or the answer. 

I see 3 options here -

- if she was the victim of a bona fide sexual trauma, the proper course of action is professional intervention and legitimate therapy. 

- if she indulged in consensual sewing some wild oats with the campus jocks and simply was hurt that she was just one of their spinning plates and she is an alpha widow, then you need to up your game and see if you can make yourself more sexually attractive and desirable and get out from behind those other guy's shadows. 

- or decide if you really want to be with someone who has wild, hot, monkey sex with other guys, but puts a bunch of rules and restrictions and hoops and hurdles on you to keep you at bay.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You can do absolutely everything right and be a great husband and still not be sexually compatible.


Of course, but that's not my fault. Her expectation is the most minimal of acts. I'm more than willing to do what it takes to arouse her desires. 
I meet her needs as best I can.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She's a woman and a wife, not a sex worker. I'm sure she doesn't see performing whatever you want sexually as her duty.


But I'm a cuckold and expected to be one.

I view marriage from the willingness of both being a servant of the other. If one is not willing to serve the other, they cannot be an equal partner.
What you are basically saying is that marriage is for woman and the husband gets nothing out of the relationship, unless she permits it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But since your title question is in regards to porn, I want to reaffirm this point from my post above - Porn is not the solution regardless of the problem. And porn is not the therapy regardless of the disease. 

Now I will say that unlike a number of regular posters here on TAM, I am not an anti porn crusader and I do not think that porn is in and of itself always bad or sinful or destructive. I think porn has it's place and even be a positive force for some things under some circumstances. 

It's kind of like fire - it can cook food, it can keep predators in the woods at bay, it can give people something to sit around and feel the warm glow of fellowship etc - but it can also burn your house, cause crippling injury and leave your life in it's ashes. 

The take away here however is in your situation, porn offers no benefit and no solution and has the potential to just exaggerate any underlying issues. 

Your situation requires actual assessment and affirmative action to correct, not sitting in the dark spanking infront of a glowing rectangle like a 13 year old hiding from his mom playing with his dinkie.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But since your title question is in regards to porn, I want to reaffirm this point from my post above - Porn is not the solution regardless of the problem. And porn is not the therapy regardless of the disease.
> 
> Now I will say that unlike a number of regular posters here on TAM, I am not an anti porn crusader and I do not think that porn is in and of itself always bad or sinful or destructive. I think porn has it's place and even be a positive force for some things under some circumstances.
> 
> ...


When I speak about using porn, I'm not talking about the gross stuff or damaging to the woman stuff that's out there. Just the fantastical equivalent of what I would like and am willing to work for her benefit so I get relief. I'm not expecting fulfillment from this, because I recognize it as fake sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Jonty, please realize the women performing sex acts in porn got there one of two ways. They are either being paid to do that or they are being enslaved to do that through human sex trafficking. Just because you see something in porn doesn't mean someone else has to do it for you. Those are paid sex workers.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Of course, but that's not my fault. Her expectation is the most minimal of acts. I'm more than willing to do what it takes to arouse her desires.
> I meet her needs as best I can.


I will also recommend our own @DSO's Deadbedroom fix material. As it addresses much of what is being discussed here. 

In it he mentions the principle of the 300lb bearded woman. In that, imagine a 300lb bearded woman was putting the moves on you and wanted to get down with you and felt that she was somehow entitled to having a sexual relationship with you. If you were somehow financially dependent on her or would at least lose your house and half your assets and would lose contact with your children if you kicked her out - how would you react and respond to her??

You would be standoffish, resistant, always making excuses and reasons why you couldn't...... and as a last resort you would institute a myriad of rules and restrictions and conditions and hoops and hurdles to make it as difficult as you could for her and to make it as less intrusive as possible to you. 

Again the principle is women make rules for men they aren't attracted to and break rules for men they are. 

If someone is putting a whole bunch of rules and restrictions and making you jump through hoops and hurdles for fairly normal stuff, it is likely an attraction issue.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Jonty, please realize the women performing sex acts in porn got there one of two ways. They are either being paid to do that or they are being enslaved to do that through human sex trafficking. Just because you see something in porn doesn't mean someone else has to do it for you. Those are paid sex workers.


I totally understand that, but I'd rather stay in the marriage. But if she's not willing to meet my needs, it then becomes a choice of walking away from the marriage or being a cuckold. 

I'd rather keep the marriage, even if I have to find relief through fantasy just to have relief. 

I'm more than willing to do whatever it took for her to trust me that I would baby step her to becoming comfortable, even if it took months for her to become willing. But she has to be willing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I totally understand that, but I'd rather stay in the marriage. But if she's not willing to meet my needs, it then becomes a choice of walking away from the marriage or being a cuckold.
> 
> I'd rather keep the marriage, even if I have to find relief through fantasy just to have relief.
> 
> I'm more than willing to do whatever it took for her to trust me that I would baby step her to becoming comfortable, even if it took months for her to become willing. But she has to be willing.


Yes you definitely have a decision to make. A lot of people do watch porn, but I think you already understand that my personal opinion is watching porn will only make you more focused and obsessed with doing different sex acts you're not going to get to do on your wife. You're just going to wind yourself up.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I will also recommend our own @DSO's Deadbedroom fix material. As it addresses much of what is being discussed here.
> 
> In it he mentions the principle of the 300lb bearded woman. In that, imagine a 300lb bearded woman was putting the moves on you and wanted to get down with you and felt that she was somehow entitled to having a sexual relationship with you. If you were somehow financially dependent on her or would at least lose your house and half your assets and would lose contact with your children if you kicked her out - how would you react and respond to her??
> 
> ...


Attraction or that she wants special memories of her own and keeping an act out of the marriage does that for her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I'm not expecting fulfillment from this, because I recognize it as fake sex.


Then there is your answer. 

At best it would be a waste of time and energy while your marriage swirls down the drain for no benefit. 

It addresses nothing. It fixes nothing. It helps nothing. And I would bet my last dollar she would simply fake indignation and add you using porn to her laundry list of excuses as to why she doesn't want a real sex life with you.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes you definitely have a decision to make. A lot of people do watch porn, but I think you already understand that my personal opinion is watching porn will only make you more focused and obsessed with doing different sex acts you're not going to get to do on your wife. You're just going to wind yourself up.


Not me. I have no interest in hurting a woman. The fact that I just relief and still remain married should speak to that.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Then there is your answer.
> 
> At best it would be a waste of time and energy while your marriage swirls down the drain for no benefit.
> 
> It addresses nothing. It fixes nothing. It helps nothing. And I would bet my last dollar she would simply fake indignation and add you using porn to her laundry list of excuses as to why she doesn't want a real sex life with you.


Possibly, but it can't get worse than it is.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Attraction or that she wants special memories of her own and keeping an act out of the marriage does that for her.


What gives you this idea? I've never in my life heard this line of thinking before.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Not me. I have no interest in hurting a woman. The fact that I just relief and still remain married should speak to that.


I'm sure you'll do what you think is best. Good luck.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

northernlights said:


> What gives you this idea? I've never in my life heard this line of thinking before.


I was about to post this but you beat me to the punch.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

northernlights said:


> What gives you this idea? I've never in my life heard this line of thinking before.


Humans sexually imprint, just like any other animal. Even if they have more leeway than an animal.
Whomever you had sex with first or often will form your desires as to whom you want to sex with.

It's why women will do things with alphas that the betas complain that their wives won't do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Attraction or that she wants special memories of her own and keeping an act out of the marriage does that for her.


Probably both. 

Let me use this an example, lets say for whatever reason you and Anna Kendrick hooked up in bed one night and it was the wildest and hottest sex of your life and in the middle of it she wanted you to toss the salad her and so you devoured her backside with gusto and you both got off on it. 

Now that that is in your past, lets bring back the 300lb bearded woman with the zits and the warts and lets say she's hounding you for the zillionth time to put it to her and you are coming up with one excuse after another but she is being insistent and so you agree to give her a hand under the blankets, in the dark, while you remain fully clothed and after a few stiff drinks. 

And then she wants you to eat her azz and says that you did it with Anna Kendrick so why not her...

That is what you are up against. 

Now I am not saying you are a bad looking guy. For all any of us know, you may put Brad Pitt to shame. 

But to her, you are the 300lb woman after she has been with Anna Kendrick.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I was about to post this but you beat me to the punch.


Thinking about this more, I'd wager the opposite is more likely true. If there was a sex act that I'd done with a previous boyfriend that was super special to me (?? I mean, I'd probably still be with the guy!!)... But if for some weird reason the guy was not for me but this sex thing was a happy memory, I'd be the one pressuring for more of it from a current partner. 

No, as a woman I can pretty much guarantee you that she tried it, didn't like it, and is pretty sure your **** is not magic (sorry they're all pretty much the same!), So she's still not going to like it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

northernlights said:


> Thinking about this more, I'd wager the opposite is more likely true. If there was a sex act that I'd done with a previous boyfriend that was super special to me (?? I mean, I'd probably still be with the guy!!)... But if for some weird reason the guy was not for me but this sex thing was a happy memory, I'd be the one pressuring for more of it from a current partner.
> 
> No, as a woman I can pretty much guarantee you that she tried it, didn't like it, and is pretty sure your **** is not magic (sorry they're all pretty much the same!), So she's still not going to like it.


Then you would have to explain why many of the women, who marry, refuse to do anything more than the absolute basic with their spouse, but are often willing to do those activities again should they have an affair. I guarantee you that it's not just feelings at work here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


I'm not a proponent of porn at all but that doesn't even seem like a healthy choice in your situation anyway.

Your wife, if she is being completely honest, needs to feel more secure and safe and in love with you to be more free in the bedroom.

That will take work from both of you but will require both of your cooperation.

Are you willing to work? Is she?

Just saying you want something won't get it for you.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I'm not a proponent of porn at all but that doesn't even seem like a healthy choice in your situation anyway.
> 
> Your wife, if she is being completely honest, needs to feel more secure and safe and in love with you to be more free in the bedroom.
> 
> ...


I've always been willing to work. As I mentioned, I am willing to work with her over months, if necessary, to bring her to a point of willingness. Even if she had issues, I would still treat her with love.

But, in the end, she has to be willing. If she's not willing, than my choice is to either be sexually limited or essentially celibate within the marriage.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I've never had an affair or known any women who did. But in most relationships, the crazier stuff is more common in the beginning when you're in lust.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Then you would have to explain why many of the women, who marry, refuse to do anything more than the absolute basic with their spouse, but are often willing to do those activities again should they have an affair. I guarantee you that it's not just feelings at work here.


Did she do this stuff with you when you were dating and had new relationship energy? If not, why do you think she would do them with a new (not you) partner?

Why didn’t you attempt these things with her early on?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Then you would have to explain why many of the women, who marry, refuse to do anything more than the absolute basic with their spouse, but are often willing to do those activities again should they have an affair. I guarantee you that it's not just feelings at work here.


Not all women are sexually compatible with the men they marry. Not all women enjoy the sex that they share with their spouses. Not all men generate much sexual desire, not all women remain sexually attracted to their spouses.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

northernlights said:


> Thinking about this more, I'd wager the opposite is more likely true. If there was a sex act that I'd done with a previous boyfriend that was super special to me (?? I mean, I'd probably still be with the guy!!)... But if for some weird reason the guy was not for me but this sex thing was a happy memory, I'd be the one pressuring for more of it from a current partner.
> 
> No, as a woman I can pretty much guarantee you that she tried it, didn't like it, and is pretty sure your **** is not magic (sorry they're all pretty much the same!), So she's still not going to like it.


80% of men are mostly celibate until they marry. 
Only the top 20% are sexually active, when they want to be.
About the next 60% are mostly celibate until they marry. It doesn't mean they are totally celibate, but their experiences will nowhere match what a typical woman experiences in the same time frame. 
The bottom 20% are always incels, unless they hire sex workers or something. 

Quite often, unfortunately, the 60% will come into a marriage as a mostly celibate person and, after the woman has her children, becomes mostly celibate again for as long as he stays married.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Humans sexually imprint, just like any other animal. Even if they have more leeway than an animal.
> Whomever you had sex with first or often will form your desires as to whom you want to sex with.
> 
> It's why women will do things with alphas that the betas complain that their wives won't do.


You have some strange ideas about human sexuality. Yet you're so certain of them. I wonder if this personality trait is part of your problem. Are you on the spectrum?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Not all women are sexually compatible with the men they marry. Not all women enjoy the sex that they share with their spouses. Not all men generate much sexual desire, not all women remain sexually attracted to their spouses.


If the man is taking care of himself and the wife is not attracted to him, she never really attracted to him. Hence, the imprinting.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> If the man is taking care of himself and the wife is not attracted to him, she never really attracted to him. Hence, the imprinting.


There's so much more to generating and maintaining sexual desire and attraction, than just looking good.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

northernlights said:


> You have some strange ideas about human sexuality. Yet you're so certain of them. I wonder if this personality trait is part of your problem. Are you on the spectrum?


If a woman has done things before marriage, that she won't do with her husband, but will do them in an affair, it's not the acts themselves that she objects to. It's who she wants to do them with.

That's a point of logic.

Humans do imprint sexually.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If a woman has done things before marriage, that she won't do with her husband, but will do them in an affair, it's not the acts themselves that she objects to. It's who she wants to do them with.
> 
> That's a point of logic.
> 
> Humans do imprint sexually.


How do you know she’ll do them in an affair, did she have an affair in the past where she did these acts or are you speculating?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> How do you know she’ll do them in an affair, did she have an affair in the past where she did these acts or are you speculating?


I doubt, in an affair, that she would be so restricted as she is with her husband. There would be no point in the affair then


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> 80% of men are mostly celibate until they marry.
> Only the top 20% are sexually active, when they want to be.
> About the next 60% are mostly celibate until they marry. It doesn't mean they are totally celibate, but their experiences will nowhere match what a typical woman experiences in the same time frame.
> The bottom 20% are always incels, unless they hire sex workers or something.
> ...


That's ridiculous.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> 80% of men are mostly celibate until they marry.
> Only the top 20% are sexually active, when they want to be.
> About the next 60% are mostly celibate until they marry. It doesn't mean they are totally celibate, but their experiences will nowhere match what a typical woman experiences in the same time frame.
> The bottom 20% are always incels, unless they hire sex workers or something.
> ...


80% of men are celibate till marriage? I would put that at about 1%, if that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I doubt, in an affair, that she would be so restricted as she is with her husband. There would be no point in the affair then


So at one point you weren’t her husband but must have been with her. Was she unrestricted then?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> That's ridiculous.


I said mostly. Most men are not at the clubs on weekends. Only the top 20%, approximately, have all the sex they want outside marriage. Most men get marriage so they have the opportunity to have sex.

Im not saying 60% of men never have sex before marriage, but their chances are much more restricted than the women.

The bottom 20% are celibate fir life, unless they pay a prostitute or escort.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Why is it that so many women will do whatever Chad Thundercock wants in bed before they are married but suddenly turn into Sister Rosemary with their husbands once they marry?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> Why is it that so many women will do whatever Chad Thundercock wants in bed before they are married but suddenly turn into Sister Rosemary with their husbands once they marry?


The usual reasons, their husbands are rubbish at sex, the sex becomes boring, other interests become more appealing, they lose attraction etc. This really isn't difficult to figure out.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Personal said:


> The usual reasons, their husbands are rubbish at sex, the sex becomes boring, other interests become more appealing, they lose attraction etc. This really isn't difficult to figure out.


How can the sex become boring if the woman is the one insisting on it being boring?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> The usual reasons, their husbands are rubbish at sex, the sex becomes boring, other interests become more appealing, they lose attraction etc. This really isn't difficult to figure out.


 If sex has become boring, that's the woman's fault, because she's the gatekeeper. All I can do is ensure that she is emotionally fed and I love her and ensure that she knows that I'm up for anything that wants to do.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> If sex has become boring, that's the woman's fault, because she's the gatekeeper.


Are you talking about some sort of dungeon role play?

'cause if you're not, and you're talking about sharing sex. You ought to know that as long as it's consensual, everyone controls who they choose to share themselves with sexually regardless of gender.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Are you talking about some sort of dungeon role play?
> 
> 'cause if you're not, and your talking about sharing sex. You ought to know that as long as it's consensual, everyone controls who they choose to share themselves with sexually regardless of gender.


No. Nothing happens in the bedro unless the woman consents. If she doesn't consent, it doesn't happen. If she's unwilling to share, she's depriving me of care for my emotional state. 

It's an unequal relationship.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So OP you believe that if your wife was to leave you she would do the things you’re interested in with someone else.

She apparently did them before she was with you.

The “special memory” line of thinking you have doesn’t pass muster if you believe she’d return to these acts in a world without you.

So it sounds like she’s not interested in doing anything with you specifically, do I have it right?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> No. Nothing happens in the bedro unless the woman consents. If she doesn't consent, it doesn't happen. If she's unwilling to share, she's depriving me of care for my emotional state.
> 
> It's an unequal relationship.


Actually if the man doesn't consent, then it also doesn't happen.

Think further.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Actually if the man doesn't consent, then it also doesn't happen.
> 
> Think further.


Men will generally consent to what a woman wants, which is why they are willing to consent with her lack of desire.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So OP you believe that if your wife was to leave you she would do the things you’re interested in with someone else.
> 
> She apparently did them before she was with you.
> 
> ...


No. Women have affairs, no matter how well a man might treat them. When they have affairs, they often return to singlehood mentality they had before they married.

If the man is a good man, he is blameless if she chooses to step out on him. It isn't always because he's done something to her.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Men will generally consent to what a woman wants


Really!!! Where is this land you speak of, where men live without backbones?

One thing for sure I only do things that I want to do.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Really!!! Where is this land you speak of, where men live without backbones?
> 
> One thing for sure I don't know about you, but I only do things I want to do.


 Men are made to want to please their wives. That's the nature of good men. It doesn't make them weak it is how they show their love.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

northernlights said:


> Thinking about this more, I'd wager the opposite is more likely true. If there was a sex act that I'd done with a previous boyfriend that was super special to me (?? I mean, I'd probably still be with the guy!!)... But if for some weird reason the guy was not for me but this sex thing was a happy memory, I'd be the one pressuring for more of it from a current partner.
> 
> No, as a woman I can pretty much guarantee you that she tried it, didn't like it, and is pretty sure your **** is not magic (sorry they're all pretty much the same!), So she's still not going to like it.


It’s not really about the specific acts but rather the attraction, desire and chemistry between the people. 

It’s really quite simple, people will do things with people they have genuine burning desire for that they won’t with people they don’t have that desire for. 

If I’m with some hot chick that is sparkly clean and has a nice pedicure, I’ll deep throat her toes without a second thought. Oral on her? Of course! Anal? Yes if she asks. Analingus? If she’s fresh out of the shower and the mood is right. 

But with some fat, frumpy gal I’m not attracted to?? Nope notta none of that no how!!! 🤮 

Now sure, there are some acts I’m simply not interested in no matter who it is ie pegging, bathroom stuff, dungeons, chains etc. 

But generally speaking so much depends on attraction and chemistry and not really the acts themselves. 

It’s simply a no brainer that people don’t want to do sexual things with people they are not attracted to. 

And any time someone doesn’t want to have sexual contact with someone, start with attraction and work from there.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Men are made to want to please their wives. That's the nature of good men. It doesn't make them weak it is how they show their love.


Hmmm, my wife told me about dating some men like that, including one who proposed marriage to her. Yet she dumped all of them because she couldn't respect them, since they didn't seem to respect themselves.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Hmmm, my wife told me about dating some men like that, including one who proposed marriage to her. Yet she dumped all of them because she couldn't respect them, since they didn't seem to respect themselves.


Happy wife.
Happy life.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Possibly, but it can't get worse than it is.


Oh, please. How naive. I guess you haven't been reading all the posts from countless of men the come to these forums seeking advice in the matter. 

So you know: as time passes: IT GETS WORSE. Read all about it. I was one of the few that got out almost immediately. Didn't want to waste my life trying when I knew with confidence that I could get another woman to try right away. 
The bottom line is what are you willing to put up with since your needs are not being met?

Are you willing to maintain the status quo? Then shut up and put up.
You're not willing to put up with it? Then these are your options:
1. This one is almost a very impossible one: become the alpha male that she would want to do whatever you want. Why almost impossible? Because you can't force attraction. It's either there or not. 

2. See if you can reach a happy medium were you get some, she puts up with some. 
3. Find the sexual satisfaction you seek with someone else, discreetly, and keep your marriage. Not willing to do that, then
4. Leave the relationship. You're not being fulfilled. Seek another partner. Not willing to leave the relationship?
See above before number 1: shut up and put up, because realistically speaking she's not going to change, they never do. The most you can get is a woman putting up some to maintain the relationship while hating it, and resenting you for it; which in turn and as time passes it will kill the relationship for her and/or you both.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Happy wife.
> Happy life.


You know that saying is utter bollocks.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Porn use can make men very discontent with their wives. That's one of the reasons it's so damaging. 
As for your wife, if she did things before that left her hurt, why would you want her to do them again?.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Men are made to want to please their wives. That's the nature of good men. It doesn't make them weak it is how they show their love.


Dude: no disrespect, but you have some weir ideas about humans and sexually. I think that you need to learn a bit more of it from a purely biological standpoint. 

We humans are not made to want to please others, we're here to live to reproduce (strictly from a genetic biological point of view) but of course we're not just that since we evolved consciousness along the way, but the bottom line is that both sexes seeks a mutually agreeable medium in which we can fulfill our needs. Although women control sex, men control other things like acceptance: yes, not, economics and security (but changing these days due to woman access to the economic system). 

The bottom line for anyone is what are you willing to put up with and what to do (if possible) to change things for a mutually acceptable outcome, and if you're not going to put up with it. 
Not need for all the women only do that with those, or men only seek that with those to please.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think you should do her a favor and terminate the marriage. 

You are definitely not someone I would want to be married to. Your thought processes are pretty scary and unsettling.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I don't think you really have a problem. With all of the generalizing, I'd bet you're here to make a case for something. Porn or whatever.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


Did you have sex with your wife before you married?

Was the sex more adventurous before and then change to vanilla? 

If she was vanilla the whole time you were dating, then why did you marry her?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Happy wife.
> Happy life.


So much yet to learn. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I'm surpirsed CatholicDad has made a stop in to this thread yet to address the porn question?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Leave out what she did with others, or you presumed she did with others.

Don't bring that up.

Tell her what you want in your intimate moments.

Can I presume that it is primarily oral sex that you want and that she is denying you this?
Or, is it doggy?

What's missing?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Not me. I have no interest in hurting a woman. The fact that I just relief and still remain married should speak to that.


A lot of men do that, watch porn and 'relieve'. Then they don't want sex with their wife. Men are as likely to not want sex with their wife as the reverse. Porn use definitely contributes.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> I will also recommend our own @DSO's Deadbedroom fix material. As it addresses much of what is being discussed here.
> 
> In it he mentions the principle of the 300lb bearded woman.


Thank you for the mention! Technically it was a 900 lb. bearded woman... but the point is the same.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Not me. I have no interest in hurting a woman. The fact that I just relief and still remain married should speak to that.


Jonty, you should just do your fair part in the domestic chores and all that and what you feel right about as far as gifts, but don't do extra thinking that may make her decide to do certain sex acts with you, because that just usually doesn't work. It's not a fair trade. But do your share and don't just keep trying to bribe her, if you will. Because that is already building more resentment in you. It's beyond your control. She doesn't have to repay you with sex. I'm sure she's already doing a lot of things to benefit your existences. Do you get what I'm saying? You'll just get bitter. Do what you think is fair and then if she holds her position, decide if you need to make a big decision. Good luck.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I totally understand that, but I'd rather stay in the marriage. But if she's not willing to meet my needs, it then becomes a choice of walking away from the marriage or being a cuckold.
> 
> I'd rather keep the marriage, even if I have to find relief through fantasy just to have relief.
> 
> I'm more than willing to do whatever it took for her to trust me that I would baby step her to becoming comfortable, even if it took months for her to become willing. But she has to be willing.


What on earth makes you think that you can babystep someone into accepting a sex act they find undesireable? Again, she's not a paid sex worker. She doesn't want to do certain things because she finds them some degree of either unenjoyable or repugnant. That's not going to change just because you keep sucking up to her! She may have tried some of those and knows for sure she hates it and will never do it again. Or she may find it so distasteful she never intends to perform that for you. She has her own likes and dislikes. She's not you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Quad73 said:


> It could just be the way the OP is expressing himself, baby stepping is par for the course in sex therapy isn't it?
> 
> “Start low, and go slow. Begin with some tame, vanilla fantasies to see how your partner responds. This will help build trust and intimacy. If you’re in a long-term relationship, you have time. Make sure you tell your partner what role they play in your fantasy, so they don’t feel excluded or threatened.” - Justin Lehmiller


Well, don't know he's in therapy, but anyway, he's doing a lot of payout hoping to only be paid back in sex stuff, and that's just not the way it works. Because she's not a sex worker. So you can't "pay" her to have certain types of sex. 

I still say, if it's that important to you, you need to find out all that stuff before you marry someone.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Jonty, you should just do your fair part in the domestic chores and all that and what you feel right about as far as gifts, but don't do extra thinking that may make her decide to do certain sex acts with you, because that just usually doesn't work. It's not a fair trade. But do your share and don't just keep trying to bribe her, if you will. Because that is already building more resentment in you. It's beyond your control. She doesn't have to repay you with sex. I'm sure she's already doing a lot of things to benefit your existences. Do you get what I'm saying? You'll just get bitter. Do what you think is fair and then if she holds her position, decide if you need to make a big decision. Good luck.


She's not a paid sex worker, but I'm a domestic servant.
Got it.

Simply existing and doing the most minimal to show love and affection is not a lot of things to my benefit. 
Since she does not care to love me, I should probably cook my own meals as well and she can cook her own.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

As I said, I fully believe in being the husband I want to be, and give all meet her affection needs, but if all she wants to do in return is be a roommate, that's where the marriage has to transition to. Separate bedrooms and everything. I can still be an accommodating roommate.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> She's not a paid sex worker, but I'm a domestic servant.
> Got it.
> 
> Simply existing and doing the most minimal to show love and affection is not a lot of things to my benefit.
> Since she does not care to love me, I should probably cook my own meals as well and she can cook her own.


I think you missed my point because what I was really saying is don't be her domestic servant, just do your fair share. Sweeping and sex isn't equal. What I was trying to say is that if you keep doing more hoping it will make her trade six for everything you're doing, it's not going to work and it's just going to make you bitter and resentful because it already has.

So I'm just saying to do your fair share and that's all because it's not something you can trade for like that and there's no point in you bending over backwards since that is the case.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you missed my point because what I was really saying is don't be her domestic servant, just do your fair share. Sweeping and sex isn't equal. What I was trying to say is that if you keep doing more hoping it will make her trade six for everything you're doing, it's not going to work and it's just going to make you bitter and resentful because it already has.
> 
> So I'm just saying to do your fair share and that's all because it's not something you can trade for like that and there's no point in you bending over backwards since that is the case.


Fair share is expected and meeting her needs is also expected. However, if she's not prepared to meet my needs, than I have to meet them on my own and my own terms.

It's not trading sex for affection. It's loving your mate. If she is not expected to love her mate, the way he needs it if it's reasonable, then it's up to him to get his needs met without bothering her about it. No matter what he says, it will feel like an obligation to her.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men do that, watch porn and 'relieve'. Then they don't want sex with their wife. Men are as likely to not want sex with their wife as the reverse. Porn use definitely contributes.


You'd be incorrect. Most men went to porn because the wives didn't want to have sex with them. 
It's an option to stay married to her, while trying to respect the boundaries that she has set.
They are trying to meet their emotional needs with an in-house absent wife.


I say most. There are some men who did go to porn, even if the wife was willing to do acrobats. 
If she's giving a real good faith effort, so should he.


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## Oakellen (Apr 1, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> You'd be incorrect. Most men went to porn because the wives didn't want to have sex with them.
> It's an option to stay married to her, while trying to respect the boundaries that she has set.
> *They are trying to meet their emotional needs with an in-house absent wife*.
> 
> ...


Could you please explain how porn meets a husband’s emotional needs?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Oakellen said:


> Could you please explain how porn meets a husband’s emotional needs?


The physical release. Men are primarily sexually on a physical level.

If he's not being loved on a physical level, he's not going to believe that he's really loved by her.

He can love her any way she needs, but if she won't love him physically, he's not loved.
Men are not women and will not perceive the acts that she might do, that she would see as loving her, as being loved to the same extent.
Most men, if a woman is an active lover of him, will feel loved by her. This is true, even if she doesn't buy him tons of gifts or other things that a woman would consider to be loved if done to her. 

Physical sex and kind words and public respect are the three primary needs of a man in a marriage. Any of those that are missing are going to leave him believing that her love for him is not complete. Most good men, if they are receiving those three things, will do everything they can to make a woman happy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Your not getting sex because you are entitled and you show very little understanding of the emotional component of sex. Generally speaking if you emotionally connect with your wife, make your sex life fun, and not about getting off. If you discuss things you would like to try, if she feels emotionally connected and safe, is bonded to you, you have a much better chance of her accommodating you or at least showing an interest to be more experimental in the bedroom.

When it comes to your sex life, any guy who thinks of his wife as a doll for him to experiment on is going to probably have a ****ty sex life. Oh and you can't buy the sex for very long, that may work for a short time, but eventually you are just paying for sex. You need to connect emotionally, and you need to make sex about bonding with her at least in a general sense. No one wants to be thought of as just and orifice.

Thing is when you are all those things I mentioned, when your wife says "I don't want to have anal sex because the one time I tried it it hurt", or "when I did this one thing you want I only did it because I felt if I didn't he wouldn't stay with me and it has bad memories for me", you will feel empathy. You won't go find some porn and sulk and say, you don't love me enough!! Like some spoiled child. Maybe you will be disappointed. But if you are connected, then shockingly you can talk about it.

You can even say, you "know it makes me kind of sad that we never got to do this because those other jerks didn't treat you well. I don't want to pressure you, I just think we both lost something because of this. I really feel close to you when we have sex and I want to experience everything with you, so I can't help but be sad." And you know what a wife who is bonded to you might fell empathy too. Or, you can talk about the mechanics involved and if your sex life is good she may be willing to try again with some information to make it less painful. 

Eventually slowly she may be open to trying again or offering something different. This is how you do relationships. In good faith with kindness and empathy. Now if you ever get past that an she has a good experience then maybe next time she will be the one who wants to try something new. But the point is of course you desire your wife, but you love, respect and want her happiness more. This is not a sexless marriage we are talking about, which is very different. This is a you don't get everything you want. You are not asking in the right way.

Besides that if she feels safe, then you will have a better chance to flirt, and get her hot. Maybe when she is hot she will be more willing to go for it. No women is hot about, I need anal sex because I am a man and all men need anal sex.

Given the tone of this thread I suspect there is not a lot of emotional connection going on. That is not how good marriage works.

You should flush you're Red Pill.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men do that, watch porn and 'relieve'. Then they don't want sex with their wife. Men are as likely to not want sex with their wife as the reverse. Porn use definitely contributes.


Some men use porn to stay in the marriage. If you are having sex once a month, your balls start hurting after a while... did you know that?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> I view marriage from the willingness of both being a servant of the other. If one is not willing to serve the other, they cannot be an equal partner.


Does your wife agrees to this? Does she know she is required to be a servant to you? (And vice versa, obviously). Did you tell her before you got married? With a premise like this, the marriage is bound to fail. Having lived a sexless and sexually frustrating marriage myself, I feel sorry for the husbands that keep trying to revive a dead horse... you two are incompatible. Pack your bags and go and find someone who is prepared to be your servant.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> *I totally understand that, but I'd rather stay in the marriage. But if she's not willing to meet my needs, it then becomes a choice of walking away from the marriage or being a cuckold.*


Where is this stupidity coming from? I'm guessing you don't know what a "cuckold" is.

A cuckold is a man whose wife cheats on him, it's *NOT* a whiny fool having a little tantrum and putting his foot down, demanding his wife start performing like Bubbles the porn star because he "refuses to be a cuckold." Unless she's cheated on you and you've hung around anyway, you're *NOT* a cuckold for the love of all that's holy.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd take my genitals and leave. Go find yourself a woman who believes her SOUL purpose for being put on this earth is to please you. 

Let us know how that goes.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> Then you would have to explain why many of the women, who marry, refuse to do anything more than the absolute basic with their spouse, but are often willing to do those activities again should they have an affair. I guarantee you that it's not just feelings at work here.


I'm curious how you know what "many" women do.

Are you getting this from red pill?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Not me. I have no interest in hurting a woman. The fact that I just relief and still remain married should speak to that.





EleGirl said:


> A lot of men do that, watch porn and 'relieve'. Then they don't want sex with their wife.


I want to address this "relief" issue a little bit more. 

As I said earlier, I am not anti porn. In some instances I think it can be a positive force. 

However, the reason I think it is often deleterious in dead bedroom situations is the exact reason you are wanting to institute it -"relief."

When a guy spanks to porn, he relieves the pressure. He feels satiated and content....for awhile, and then the tank starts to refill and he starts to feel the pressure again. 

In the mean time the wife is still fretting over bills and scrubbing sinks and pulling blades of grass out of the cracks in the driveway. so when the pressure builds, he pulls up Nympho Nurses In Heat Part 4. Rinse and repeat. 

What's really taking place here is he taking matters into his own hand and no longer pursuing a solution to the root problem. He is no longer courting and seducing his partner. And if she is simply done with him and no longer attracted to him and just wants him around to fix leaky faucets and pay bills, he complies with that and doesn't do anything to remedy his situation. 

Porn is the adult version of the jr high dance where the nerds and the shy boys stand against wall in the dark watching the jocks and cheerleaders dance. It's taking yourself out of the game to be a spectator watching the sexy people "F."

My reccommendation is LET THE PRESSURE BUILD. Let the tank fill to overload pressures. Don't relief it except through real sex. Let your nature instincts and energies build and motivate you to take action. 

When the pressure gets strong enough, it will motivate you to take action. That action may be in courting and seducing your wife rather than having a quick spank in the bathroom while she putting away dishes. 

That action may be velcroing on your balls and addressing in a serious manner that there are problems in the marriage that may need professional assistance and MC or even sex therapy. 

That action may be realising that it is a lost cause so you pack your bags and move on. 

And that action may even be that find someone else on the down low. 

But my point is that you take action and do something about it to obtain a sex life with a real person in the real world and not sedating yourself by your own hand watching the sexy people have sex lives while you don't. 

Spanking might make you feel a little better temporarily, but it perpetuates and prolongs the root problem.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Where is this stupidity coming from? I'm guessing you don't know what a "cuckold" is.
> 
> A cuckold is a man whose wife cheats on him, it's *NOT* a whiny fool having a little tantrum and putting his foot down, demanding his wife start performing like Bubbles the porn star because he "refuses to be a cuckold." Unless she's cheated on you and you've hung around anyway, you're *NOT* a cuckold for the love of all that's holy.
> 
> ...





jonty30 said:


> But expecting your spouse to be the cuckold is love.





jonty30 said:


> But I'm a cuckold and expected to be one.


All of these references lead me to believe that the OP is not well versed in sex. Very inexperienced.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What on earth makes you think that you can babystep someone into accepting a sex act they find undesireable? Again, she's not a paid sex worker. She doesn't want to do certain things because she finds them some degree of either unenjoyable or repugnant. That's not going to change just because you keep sucking up to her! She may have tried some of those and knows for sure she hates it and will never do it again. Or she may find it so distasteful she never intends to perform that for you. She has her own likes and dislikes. She's not you.


It is the similar thing that women are known to do.

They marry a flawed man and then attempt to 'train' him to be a better man.

This works well with dogs, not so well with men.

The disobedient dog gets his nose whacked, the man his.....


_The Typist-_


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men do that, watch porn and 'relieve'. Then they don't want sex with their wife. Men are as likely to not want sex with their wife as the reverse. Porn use definitely contributes.


Oh and I want to tweak this statement a little bit to be more accurate. 

It's not that porn makes men actually want sex with their wife less per se. 

It's that it makes them fat and lazy blobs that are content to just sit there with their junk in their hand staring at other people having sex. 

It makes them stop trying. It makes them stop pursuing. And it makes them stop initiating. They may whine and moan about their lack of real sex..... but they aren't actually doing anything in the real world to get it.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> All of these references lead me to believe that the *OP is not well versed in sex.* Very inexperienced.


And therein lies much of his woes, those dry spells got, and dry wells met.


_Lilith-_


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Not one woman here has stated, or implied, that women have all the power.... You are twisting what is being said. And by doing so you are giving the OP some very bad feedback.
> 
> 
> LOL... women know that men can leave their marriage any time they want just like women can.
> ...


Men can leave their marriage, but they will not if there are children involved, because the female friendly family courts will savage them financially, so they wait until the youngest is 18 and then makes plans to get out. He might have been developing a friendship with some woman who acted like a girlfriend for some time before that point, so his transition out of his marriage into a new relationship will be an easy one for him.

That's why you get 50 year old women, who are surprised that her husband suddenly bailed. He spent 30 years in a marriage unloved and he just counted down the days when the only issue of a dissolution of a marriage is the division of property. He's been unloved for most of that marriage. Most times, the reason why a man will withdraw from sex is because the woman makes it seem like she's doing him the favour and doesn't really like it herself, because she did all the things that she wanted in college. Look at how many of the women here, when I bring up a man who loves his wife and does everything he can to please her and the women here say that don't owe him any physical love and expectations of love for him are whatever the woman wants to give and he should accept that.

Most times, the good man gives up because his best actions to bring out love from his wife was a complete waste of time. He gets rejected so many times and he's told that things she used to do are not options for him, that he gives up any thought of being loved by his wife. Once his love dies, it takes quite a while for him to bring it back if she starts showing him affection.

I'm not getting into any jerks or anything like that, because that's self explanatory.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> _I'm curious how you know what "many" women do._
> 
> Are you getting this from red pill?


Surely, from that porn.

It is on the internet so it has to be true...


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Most men went to porn because the wives didn't want to have sex with them.
> It's an option to stay married to her, while trying to respect the boundaries that she has set.
> They are trying to meet their emotional needs with an in-house absent wife.


But here is my point - when those guys start spanking to porn,, what are they doing to remedy the problems in their real life sex life with their partner??

They may be relieving their own sexual energies themselves and settling for having a roommate but what are they doing to be actual sexual beings in the real world? 

And then the question of whether they even "SHOULD" remain in the marriage comes into question. Spanking to porn is probably keeping more men in bad marriages than causing men to leave good marriages. They're relieving themselves so they settle for being roommates. Is that what Mother Nature and the Good Lord intended men to do? 

My point above is if you allow that tank to fill and the pressure to build, you'll eventually take definitive action. You may finally take her out dancing and partying out on the town and seduce her. You may drag her kicking and screaming to marriage counseling to address the marital issues. You may pursue and hook up with that hot chick in the tight yoga pants at the gym. And you may even pack your bags and leave the marriage and be a single man on the dating market again. 

But the point is you have taken action and are back in the saddle again rather than being a creeper sitting alone in the dark with your junk in your hand watching other people have sex lives.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But here is my point - when those guys start spanking to porn,, what are they doing to remedy the problems in their real life sex life with their partner??
> 
> They may be relieving their own sexual energies themselves and settling for having a roommate but what are they doing to be actual sexual beings in the real world?
> 
> ...


I agree with you, if the intent was to enjoy porn. I don't want that, but she also doesn't want much for sex.

I'm old enough to now allow to be progressive, where I start to look at harder and harder porn to relieve myself.], because it's not about the enjoyment.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> All of these references lead me to believe that the OP is not well versed in sex. Very inexperienced.


I was speaking metaphorically. If the wife will not have the varied kinds of sex with you, but she had them when she was younger and she might have them in an affair, it means that those acts of intimacy are not the problem with her.

If she wants me to be satisfied with the limited sex that she offers, I'm effectively a cuckold in the marriage, because I'm not satisfied but I have to live with it.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@jonty30 

Your posts come across as demanding, insensitive & sexist. If these attitudes slip through in how you communicate with your wife, that is why she no longer finds you desirable,

I get it. Men need sex to feel loved but what you don't seem to grasp is that women need love to feel sexy. All this talk about quid pro quo & your demands is a HUGE turn off. You make it sound like she owes you. Sex is supposed to be mutual & loving. It's not some obligation so one party can live out fantasies regardless of what the other one wants. 

Whatever turns on you get from porn, have at it but stop expecting your wife to be on board with whatever you are watching. Make love to her on her terms. Do that for a while. After you get the frequency to where you want it to be, in a heightened state of passion you can try exploring whatever it is that you are desiring IF she's on board but married or not, No always means NO. You need to respect her as a person. Perhaps think of it more like a fear. If your wife was afraid of heights would you really drag her to the top of the Seattle Space needle, the Empire State Bldg or the Eiffel Tower on a regular basis? No that would be cruel. Similarly whatever it is in the bedroom she doesn't want to do is off limits. 

This whole thread reads like you looking for an excuse to get out of your marriage. Your wife is probably picking up on that. You are putting all sorts of pressure on her & that makes her feel worse & less loving toward you. The bedroom is no longer a safe happy place for her. So she's even less likely to trust enough to explore.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> @jonty30
> 
> Your posts come across as demanding, insensitive & sexist. If these attitudes slip through in how you communicate with your wife, that is why she no longer finds you desirable,
> 
> ...


You have the wrong impression, in terms that I might be throwing a tantrum about it. I'm not.
I'm just respecting her wishes as best as I can, while ensuring that my sexual frustration doesn't become an issue in marriage. I can still be a loving husband in all other ways that she wants me to be. Most good men have done everything they can to ensure their wives are loved, but their wives often have not responded to their efforts. How long are you going to push up a giant stone ball up a hill, only to have it roll down, before you leave it?

I do respect my wife as a person. If she doesn't want sex, there is no pressure to have sex. However, I'm not going to leave myself completely unsatisfied on the issue.

I have never pressured my wife once she made it clear about her limits. I have to live within her limits.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I agree with you, if the intent was to enjoy porn. I don't want that, but she also doesn't want much for sex.
> 
> I'm old enough to now allow to be progressive, where I start to look at harder and harder porn to relieve myself.], because it's not about the enjoyment.


You're going to have to explain that differently because I'm not getting what you are saying. 

Are you saying you don't enjoy porn? If so, then why are we even having this discussion?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> You're going to have to explain that differently because I'm not getting what you are saying.
> 
> Are you saying you don't enjoy porn? If so, then why are we even having this discussion?


As I said, the intent is find relief in the activities that she doesn't want to do, through fantasy of seeing it done. 

It's like taking methadone for heroin. It's not a real substitute, but it keeps you stable enough to not seek the real thing if she's not willing.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm curious how you know what "many" women do.
> 
> Are you getting this from red pill?


I get that from the posters on this site. Many of them have said that, if a wife don't wanna, than he should not expect anything beyond what she's offering.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I was speaking metaphorically. If the wife will not have the varied kinds of sex with you, but she had them when she was younger and she might have them in an affair, it means that those acts of intimacy are not the problem with her.
> 
> If she wants me to be satisfied with the limited sex that she offers, I'm effectively a cuckold in the marriage, because I'm not satisfied but I have to live with it.


You do not understand the meaning of the word cuckold. I strongly suggest you look up the definition. 

This poster has retroactive jealousy. He's pissed off his wife did some sexual things in his youth she doesn't want to do now in the marriage. 

OP did you have sex with your now wife before marriage? If so, why did you marry her knowing she wasn't interested in the things she isn't interested in?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I'm just respecting her wishes as best as I can, while ensuring that my sexual frustration doesn't become an issue in marriage.


I'm saying let your sexual energies become an issue. Take action. 

She has personal autonomy and free choice as well. If you being a sexual being and wanting to have a marital sex life is not acceptable to her and she does not want to be in a sexual relationship with you, she is perfectly capable of packing up her bags and divorcing you as well. 

Then she can either live a life of celibacy with her cats or she can find someone that she does want a full service relationship with. 

She has the option of doing some soul searching and determining what she can do on her end to better meet your needs if she wants a happy, healthy marriage.

She has the option of seeking MC or therapy if that is what is needed.

She also has the option of giving you a hall pass to hook up with whoever you want and are able to get or of having some kind of open marriage where you can each seek elsewhere.

And ultimately she has the option of dissolving the marriage as well if you are wanting a sex life that she is unable or unwilling to provide. 

Why do you feel you are the only one that has to make hard decisions and sacrifice? She can leave if she doesn't like you.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Where is this stupidity coming from? I'm guessing you don't know what a "cuckold" is.
> 
> A cuckold is a man whose wife cheats on him, it's *NOT* a whiny fool having a little tantrum and putting his foot down, demanding his wife start performing like Bubbles the porn star because he "refuses to be a cuckold." Unless she's cheated on you and you've hung around anyway, you're *NOT* a cuckold for the love of all that's holy.
> 
> ...


It's metaphorical, when the wife doesn't want to do anything that she has done before she met him or in an affair with other people. 

If the husband doesn't get much, but she was a sex queen before him,he's effectively cuckholded. Most men would view it that way.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I'm saying let your sexual energies become an issue. Take action.
> 
> She has personal autonomy and free choice as well. If you being a sexual being and wanting to have a marital sex life is not acceptable to her and she does not want to be in a sexual relationship with you, she is perfectly capable of packing up her bags and divorcing you as well.
> 
> ...


I would never do the hall pass. I do believe in being faithful. 

If she wants out, she can leave.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> It's metaphorical, when the wife doesn't want to do anything that she has done before she met him or in an affair with other people.
> 
> If the husband doesn't get much, but she was a sex queen before him,he's effectively cuckholded. Most men would view it that way.


See? Here is is. 

OP has retroactive jealousy about specific sex acts. That's the issue here.

And still DOES NOT understand the meaning of the word cuckold.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> OP did you have sex with your now wife before marriage? If so, why did you marry her knowing she wasn't interested in the things she isn't interested in?


I asked this a couple times, it seems important.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> How long are you going to push up a giant stone ball up a hill,only to have it roll down, before you leave it?


In the context of marriage, forever. I took vows about for better or worse, in good times & in bad & I am keeping them even though my husband & I haven't had sex in more than 5 years. I stopped counting because it made me too sad. He has ED & then there are these whole over arching psychological things. I'm not leaving. I'm just sad & disappointed.

You need to do what's best for you.

While you may think you are being a good husband, I'm telling you that what I perceived through your posts is most likely present in your daily interactions. Thus your wife's perceptions may be very different than how you see yourself.

I agree with whoever recently said you have elements of retroactive jealousy in here. I don't know how you know what your wife did with other men, but this is why such knowledge is poison. It's eating you alive. You mention things that your wife did in an affair. If that is why's driving this, just get divorced already. Why stay with a cheater who won't have sex with you?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> See? Here is is.
> 
> OP has retroactive jealousy about specific sex acts. That's the issue here.
> 
> And still DOES NOT understand the meaning of the word cuckold.


I understand the term. I don't mean it literally, where she's going out during the marriage and leaving me at home. I mean in terms of that she was willing to offer herself to other men to do things, but she is unwilling to offer herself to me to do those same things. It's a lesser position that she wants me to take.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> In the context of marriage, forever. I took vows about for better or worse, in good times & in bad & I am keeping them even though my husband & I haven't had sex in more than 5 years. I stopped counting because it made me too sad. He has ED & then there are these whole over arching psychological things. I'm not leaving. I'm just sad & disappointed.
> 
> You need to do what's best for you.
> 
> ...


If it was a medical situation, that would be different. It's just an issue of the heart.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I understand the term. I don't mean it literally, where she's going out during the marriage and leaving me at home. I mean in terms of that she was willing to offer herself to other men to do things, but she is unwilling to offer herself to me to do those same things. It's a lesser position that she wants me to take.


Still not the meaning of the word -at all.

You have a huge case of retroactive jealousy.

Why did you marry her knowing there are some sex acts she's not interested in?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

But did she cheat? I read the word affair in many of your posts -- as in she did it before when she was young In in the context of an affair.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> But did she cheat? I read the word affair in many of your posts -- as in she did it before when she was young In in the context of an affair.


As far as I know, she hasn't had any affairs. When I use the term, I mean it in the sense that she may be willing to do things that she would not do with me, if she had an affair. 

Many of the posters here have said, when their wives had affairs that is what happened and that's how I mean. I was not intending to imply that she had an affair.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You have been asked many times. Why did you marry her, knowing there are some sex acts she isn't interested in?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> You have been asked many times. Why did you marry her, knowing there are some sex acts she isn't interested in?


She lied about her willingness.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> She lied about her willingness.


So you married her even though she wasn't participating in some certain kinds of sex acts, based on the fact that she said she'd be willing in the future. 

How long did you date before marriage?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> So you married her even though she wasn't participating in some certain kinds of sex acts, based on the fact that she said she'd be willing in the future.
> 
> How long did you date before marriage?


About 8 months. 
I'm trust easily, unfortunately.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> About 8 months.
> I'm trust easily, unfortunately.


8 months isn't very long to get to know someone before marriage. What does she say when you ask her why she said she'd be willing _then changed her mind_?


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> As far as I know, she hasn't had any affairs. When I use the term, I mean it in the sense that she may be willing to do things that she would not do with me, if she had an affair.


This is projection & speculation on your part. You have convinced yourself it's true & your belief is further poisoning your marriage. 

If a woman doesn't like a sex act, she's not going to like that act no matter her partner. It's the ACT not the person. Your wife is not withhold some particular act to punish you. She genuinely doesn't like it. She may have tried it in the past & that may be how she knows she doesn't like it but that's not about you. It's about the act. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like cleanliness, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that score. 

It's an imperfect analogy but think about this. My husband loves Guinness. I hate the stuff. Yes, I tried it before I met him. Am I supposed to drink it now, despite hating it, just because it's his favorite? Of course not. It's the same with whatever sex act you want.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> 8 months isn't very long to get to know someone before marriage. What does she say when you ask her why she said she'd be willing _then changed her mind_?


She just doesn't want to.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> This is projection & speculation on your part. You have convinced yourself it's true & your belief is further poisoning your marriage.
> 
> If a woman doesn't like a sex act, she's not going to like that act no matter her partner. It's the ACT not the person. Your wife is not withhold some particular act to punish you. She genuinely doesn't like it. She may have tried it in the past & that may be how she knows she doesn't like it but that's not about you. It's about the act. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like cleanliness, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that score.
> 
> It's an imperfect analogy but think about this. My husband loves Guinness. I hate the stuff. Yes, I tried it before I met him. Am I supposed to drink it now, despite hating it, just because it's his favorite? Of course not. It's the same with whatever sex act you want.


If she doesn't want to do something, It won't be an issue. 
I'm not worried about that. I do recognize it as a loss that I have to deal with.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

8 months is nothing... we dated for 5 years, living together, before we got married... it still wen wrong, mind you...


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If she doesn't want to do something, It won't be an issue.
> I'm not worried about that. I do recognize it as a loss that I have to deal with.


WHAT????!!!!

This makes no sense. The whole thread is about your issues with her not wanting to do something. You lost me


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

D0nnivain said:


> WHAT????!!!!
> 
> This makes no sense. The whole thread is about your issues with her not wanting to do something. You lost me


I think it's more the fact that he feels betrayed by all this.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's more the fact that he feels betrayed by all this.


Betrayed and her unwillingness to be accommodating in some other way.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Those of you jumping on @jonty30 for his use (misuse?) of the word cuckold, I ask a little leeway. The word cuckold has taken on an almost porn definition in recent years that implies the wife is having hot, monkey sex with a more virile and desirable man while the cuckolded husband sits passively in the shadows.... often while the wife and OM deride and humiliate him by saying how much better the OM is and how weak and ineffectual the H is. 

The old school definition was based on the cuckold bird that would push another bird's eggs out of the nest, lay her own eggs in their place and have the other bird raise her offspring while she flies off and has fun. That was applied to other men knocking up women on the down low to have the unknowing partner of the woman raise and pay his offspring while he was off the hook. 

So while the OP's use of the word is not technically accurate in either sense, he is loosely applying it to mean he feels he was deceptively lead to believe she was into more activities than what she really is and that he was the chump married her and now he does not get the consideration that these other guys got previously. 

It is kind of mix of bait-and-switch and retroactive jealousy although not purely one of those things either because he doesn't appear to be losing sleep or feel disdain for his wife that she had prior sexual experiences.... he just wishes she was enjoying them with him as well and feels a bit put out that she engaged in them with others and not him. 

And it's not pure bait-and-switch either in that it sounds like they do have a certain degree of marital sex life and is not an actual dead bedroom, he just wants to do some stuff that she doesn't but has in the past with other people. 

Cuckold may not be the technically accurate word, but I'm not sure there is a standardized catch-phrase for his dilemma.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Those of you jumping on @jonty30 for his use (misuse?) of the word cuckold, I ask a little leeway. The word cuckold has taken on an almost porn definition in recent years that implies the wife is having hot, monkey sex with a more virile and desirable man while the cuckolded husband sits passively in the shadows.... often while the wife and OM deride and humiliate him by saying how much better the OM is and how weak and ineffectual the H is.
> 
> The old school definition was based on the cuckold bird that would push another bird's eggs out of the nest, lay her own eggs in their place and have the other bird raise her offspring while she flies off and has fun. That was applied to other men knocking up women on the down low to have the unknowing partner of the woman raise and pay his offspring while he was off the hook.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I'd like to do those things, but she's made it clear that she won't. I respect her enough to not do those things. 
However, I'm not going to leave them out of my fantasy life and put those desires on a shelf and forget about it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So it sounds like the actual issue is the wife promised there were sex acts she would do with him, but only after they got married. Now that they are married, she is going back on that and won't, and just doesn’t to. 

Since there WAS a deliberate discussion on this before marriage, it does sound like a bait and switch, to me.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Betrayed and her unwillingness to be accommodating in some other way.


I'm still lost. 8 months after having met her you rushed in & married a stranger. Seriously there are reasons it's suggested that people not even talk about marriage until they have been dating for 1+years & then have a one year engagement. You married in 1/3 the time.

Then you had detailed conversations about what people did in the past & with who. This is exactly why IMO, people should never share details like this. You can't un-ring this bell. You know your wife did something with another guy & now your panties are in a twist because she won't do it with you. 

1. You never should have known this. 
2. It's still not about you. It's about her not liking it but you are too busy being hurt & jealous thinking you are being denied something that is your right. Her body is not your right -- ever! 

Because this is all so abstract, I do not know what accommodations you are seeking, nor do I want to. Perhaps you can clarify with her. Saying something along the lines of "I know you won't do X but how about Y? Or I really love X, can we please do it once a year?" Another approach might be you telling her how much the knowledge that she did whatever with whoever but won't do it with you is making you crazy. Admit you are jealous & maybe you will get pity sex. Do you understand that you are never going to get her to do whatever it is for fun? She doesn't like it.

I do agree that if she said should would do X with you but now won't that is a little unfair.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I'm still lost. 8 months after having met her you rushed in & married a stranger. Seriously there are reasons it's suggested that you not even talk about marriage until you have been dating for 1+years & then you have a one year engagement. You married in 1/3 the time.
> 
> Then you had detailed conversations about what people did in the past & with who. This is exactly why IMO, peopel should never share details like this. You can't un-ring this bell. You know your wife did something with another guy & now your panties are in a twist because she won't do it with you.
> 
> ...


I've already stated that I don't expect her to do things she doesn't want to do. I can love her anyway.
I'm still in the marriage and with her. I'm just doing some grieving about it, that's all. 
I can still substitute for the stuff that I would like to do that she won't and get some semi-satisfaction out of that.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> I'm still lost. 8 months after having met her you rushed in & married a stranger. Seriously there are reasons it's suggested that people not even talk about marriage until they have been dating for 1+years & then have a one year engagement. You married in 1/3 the time.
> 
> Then you had detailed conversations about what people did in the past & with who. This is exactly why IMO, people should never share details like this. You can't un-ring this bell. You know your wife did something with another guy & now your panties are in a twist because she won't do it with you.
> 
> ...


But she promised she'd be interested in those things with him once they got married, then went back on it. 

That's kind of a big deal.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Livvie said:


> But she promised she'd be interested in those things with him once they got married, then went back on it.
> 
> That's kind of a big deal.


He's an idiot for trusting that promise. It doesn't even make sense... Why would a wedding ring and piece of paper be the key for her to bend over and let him stick it in the backdoor?


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

bobert said:


> He's an idiot for trusting that promise. It doesn't even make sense... Why would a wedding ring and piece of paper be the key for her to bend over and let him stick it in the backdoor?


We have another poster here, I can't remember who, who was told oral is only something she would do with a husband. He became the husband.... but no oral.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I can still substitute for the stuff that I would like to do that she won't and get some semi-satisfaction out of that.


This is why sugar babies, escorts and dominatrixes are a gazillion dollar a year industry. 

And it's also why FetLife, Seeking Arrangement, Ashley Madison and AFF etc etc are raking it in every day.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> This is why sugar babies, escorts and dominatrixes are a gazillion dollar a year industry.
> 
> And it's also why FetLife, Seeking Arrangement, Ashley Madison and AFF etc etc are raking it in every day.


The funny thing about Ashley Maddison is that many of the profiles of the prospective females were just employees. When you signed up, if you didn't pay your fee, you got an email saying that you'd get a letter to your home address with a bill and the services that you signed up for. This implied the wife would be looking at the mail.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> The funny thing about Ashley Maddison is that many of the profiles of the prospective females were just employees. When you signed up, if you didn't pay your fee, you got an email saying that you'd get a letter to your home address with a bill and the services that you signed up for. This implied the wife would be looking at the mail.


That's true with everything online. Desperate and/or horny people are easy scam targets.

Some people think they can buy online what they can't get IRL.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So what are these sex acts your wife isn't interested in doing that is so main stream?

How do you know she did these in the past?

If you dated for 8 months you should have already been aware of what menu she was offering you. It doesn't seem like she was doing lots of stuff with you and then decided not to. It seems like you are trying to change her.

If you want to ignite passion your attitude certainly isn't going to cut it. The porn isn't helping you stay married either.

I don't even know where to begin here.... You should try a counselor.


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

northernlights said:


> I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


I can remember when I was in the Army and my 1st sergeant said "get that **** out of your system before you're married....it has no place in a marriage".

He was referring to threesomes.

We're on FB and have mutual friends so I know that he just celebrated 45 years with his wife and they are happy and traveling the country in an RV together. They survived close to 30 years of active duty army with multiple deployments.

I think he has credibility where marriage is concerned.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Men can leave their marriage, but they will not if there are children involved, because the female friendly family courts will savage them financially, so they wait until the youngest is 18 and then makes plans to get out. He might have been developing a friendship with some woman who acted like a girlfriend for some time before that point, so his transition out of his marriage into a new relationship will be an easy one for him.
> 
> That's why you get 50 year old women, who are surprised that her husband suddenly bailed. He spent 30 years in a marriage unloved and he just counted down the days when the only issue of a dissolution of a marriage is the division of property. He's been unloved for most of that marriage. Most times, the reason why a man will withdraw from sex is because the woman makes it seem like she's doing him the favour and doesn't really like it herself, because she did all the things that she wanted in college. Look at how many of the women here, when I bring up a man who loves his wife and does everything he can to please her and the women here say that don't owe him any physical love and expectations of love for him are whatever the woman wants to give and he should accept that.
> 
> ...


I moved this post from the other thread because it's a thread jack again.

So your take on this is that woman control marriage by with holding sex, hence women have all the power. But when a man withholds sex it's because_ "Most times, the reason why a man will withdraw from sex is because the woman makes it seem like she's doing him the favour and doesn't really like it herself, because she did all the things that she wanted in college."; _and _"th__e good man gives up because his best actions to bring out love from his wife was a complete waste of time. _And you say that this_ "good man" _who withholds sex from a wife who wants sex is getting sex on the side from someone else. Seriously?

No man or women who choses to cheat is a "good man/woman".

You seem stuck on stereo types and seem to paint all women with the way you see your wife. I would love for your wife to come here and post. Her side of this might be very interesting to hear.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> So what are these sex acts your wife isn't interested in doing that is so main stream?
> 
> How do you know she did these in the past?
> 
> ...


I'd also be interested to know what things she promised she'd do with you once you were married that she now refuses to participate in.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

northernlights said:


> I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


well at least you admit it was a bait and switch.
How did hubby take it? or was he not expecting it after all?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

northernlights said:


> I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


But don't actions like this lead to problems later in the mariage like cheating?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> It's certainly better than the alternative.
> 
> I think most women, who have trouble fulfilling reasonable demands for their partner, are either imprinted on whom they had sex with before and perhaps want to keep that act kind of special as a remembrance of whom they did it with or they have a negative experience, such as a rough boyfriend who didn't care if he caused her backside to prolapse as long as he got his jollies.
> 
> ...


This i see. My wife when discussing things in the past brought up anal sex. I tried it in past....no thanks. Didn't do anything for me. Wife's ex hubby was not kind in that regard and she felt used/abused and she would not want to with me due to size and she worries about anal prolapse and incontinence. Thing is it was related to bad experience and i have no wishes to bring up those bad memories during sex.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Jonty, was she ever attracted to you


northernlights said:


> I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


Wise decision. Three-ways are best between mere acquaintances who have no attachments to each other.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> It's metaphorical, when the wife doesn't want to do anything that she has done before she met him or in an affair with other people.


What are these sexual things that your wife will not do?


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But don't actions like this lead to problems later in the mariage like cheating?


Do you mean adding people or changing my mind? A third was never a big deal for DH. I think he likes the idea, talking about it or watching porn. So we play with the idea. But it not like we wouldn't have ever gotten married if I didn't put it on the table.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

northernlights said:


> Do you mean adding people or changing my mind? A third was never a big deal for DH. I think he likes the idea, talking about it or watching porn. So we play with the idea. But it not like we wouldn't have ever gotten married if I didn't put it on the table.


I have a question for you. When you and he did talk about a 3 way, was it going to be 2 women and him? Was he open to another guy, him, and you?


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


Back the truck up for a second. If the man has so few options that he settles for a basic sex chick then he cannot come back later and cry about it.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> What are these sexual things that your wife will not do?


She just wants plain vanilla sex.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> Back the truck up for a second. If the man has so few options that he settles for a basic sex chick then he cannot come back later and cry about it.


She didn't say that during the courtship.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Al_Bundy said:


> Back the truck up for a second. If the man has so few options that he settles for a basic sex chick then he cannot come back later and cry about it.


She promised him after they got married she would be open to doing more things with him. Then went back on that.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> She just wants plain vanilla sex.


That's not very informative.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> That's not very informative.


Vaginal sex.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Vaginal sex.


Again what is it that you want that you think is so great that you have to watch porn to be satisfied?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Again what is it that you want that you think is so great that you have to watch porn to be satisfied?


Blow jobs or anal. I can give up the anal, no problem.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Does your wife agrees to this? Does she know she is required to be a servant to you? (And vice versa, obviously). Did you tell her before you got married? With a premise like this, the marriage is bound to fail. Having lived a sexless and sexually frustrating marriage myself, I feel sorry for the husbands that keep trying to revive a dead horse... you two are incompatible. Pack your bags and go and find someone who is prepared to be your servant.


So you dont believe spouses should do **** for each other? Not a very loving relationship. 
My wife washes my clothes, many times prepares meals as do i, after a hard day she tells me to sit in my recliner and brings me a glasd of tea.....in the morning i make coffee and wake her with a back rub..i help her out of bed and put her robe on her, i have her coffee beside the couch when she comes to the living room. I also work on her vehicle and put gas in it....it is serving each other....happens in a good marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Blow jobs or anal. I can give up the anal, no problem.


Dont see what one gets out of anal...like jerking off with a thumb and index finger.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Dont see what one gets out of anal...like jerking off with a thumb and index finger.


I haven't done it, but it is something that isn't important.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So basically it's that she told you oral sex would be on the table once you got married. You got married and now she's sayng, I didn't mean it, no oral. So if you remain married to her you will never experience oral.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> So basically it's that she told you oral sex would be on the table once you got married. You got married and now she's sayng, I didn't mean it, no oral. So if you remain married to her you will never experience oral.


Yes.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Blow jobs or anal. I can give up the anal, no problem.


So you feel deprived because no blow jobs or anal.

So when you say blow jobs you mean she never puts your penis in her mouth or she doesn't do this as a stand alone act?

Personally do you give her oral? Do you let her peg you?
What do you do to spice things up?
Do you bring vibrators or dildos to bed to pleasure her?

As a woman if I knew my husband was looking at porn regular I would leave. I know that isn't popular because so many think porn is ok and just something men do. I'm open to lots of things but porn isn't one of them.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you feel deprived because no blow jobs or anal.
> 
> So when you say blow jobs you mean she never puts your penis in her mouth or she doesn't do this as a stand alone act?
> 
> ...


Not looking at porn would be fine, if she was willing to meet my needs entirely. However, she only wants to do what is comfortable for her. 
Yes, I do give her oral, which is probably part of the dissatisfaction.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> She just wants plain vanilla sex.


Are you saying that the only way she will have sex is with guy on top. No foreplay, nothing?


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Not looking at porn would be fine, if she was willing to meet my needs entirely. However, she only wants to do what is comfortable for her.
> Yes, I do give her oral, which is probably part of the dissatisfaction.


So if that bothers you stop doing it.
She should only do things she is comfortable with and you should only do things you are comfortable with.

So does she orgasm? Would you know if she were faking?


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you feel deprived because no blow jobs or anal.
> 
> So when you say blow jobs you mean she never puts your penis in her mouth or she doesn't do this as a stand alone act?
> 
> ...


True Anastasia but I think thats because you and your hubby have a good sex life. Some guys resort to porn as they do not have a sex life at all. As in their wife goes to bed early and they are left with nothing to do in the evening.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> True Anastasia but I think thats because you and your hubby have a good sex life. Some guys resort to porn as they do not have a sex life at all. As in their wife goes to bed early and they are left with nothing to do in the evening.


Doesn't change I'd still leave him. I won't start yet another thread jack on whether porn is good or bad. Simply my position. OP wanted to know if it was justified. He's barely told us what is so unsatisfying or what he's done to correct it. So I'm trying to get a better picture and offer help.

And there have been lulls in our marriage as well just not recently.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Are you saying that the only way she will have sex is with guy on top. No foreplay, nothing?


Her on top and me on top, but that's about how far it goes. 
Of course foreplay, enough to get me erect and her aroused.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Not looking at porn would be fine, if she was willing to meet my needs entirely. However, she only wants to do what is comfortable for her.
> Yes, I do give her oral, which is probably part of the dissatisfaction.


And oral or anal or both is a NEED?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And oral or anal or both is a NEED?


I think anything a spouse desires in the bedroom, that isn't harmful or degrading, really is a need because unmet desires do build-up over time.

What if your spouse refused to give you oral, because they simply didn't want to. Would you be a happy spouse?


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I think anything a spouse desires in the bedroom, that isn't harmful or degrading, really is a need because unmet desires do build-up over time.
> 
> What if your spouse refused to give you oral, because they simply didn't want to. Would you be a happy spouse?


Well I notice you aren't answering certain questions so I'l ask again.
Does she never put your penis in her mouth or she doesn't give you stand alone BJ's?
Does she orgasm each time?
Do you or would you know if she was faking it?

I'll be happy to answer. What you find harmful and degrading maybe completely different that what someone else finds it. Have you had conversations with your wife outside of the bedroom about sex? Does she know you watch porn?

And to answer your question. I'd be a happy spouse if my husband never gave me oral, yes.

and since you are new here, I'll let you know me and my husband have a satisfying sex life and it is varied. It hasn't always been as varied and it may not have always been as satisfying. I'm going on year 28 in about a month.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> So basically it's that she told you oral sex would be on the table once you got married. You got married and now she's sayng, I didn't mean it, no oral. So if you remain married to her you will never experience oral.


Yes.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Yes.


yes what? to who?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> yes what? to who?


Livvie said:
So basically it's that she told you oral sex would be on the table once you got married. You got married and now she's sayng, I didn't mean it, no oral. So if you remain married to her you will never experience oral.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Livvie said:
> So basically it's that she told you oral sex would be on the table once you got married. You got married and now she's sayng, I didn't mean it, no oral. So if you remain married to her you will never experience oral.


So you dated you didn't get oral but you thought after you got married you'd get oral. What are you calling oral?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you dated you didn't get oral but you thought after you got married you'd get oral. What are you calling oral?


That's what was promised. 

A blowjob.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So I guess she broke the deal. Sit her down say hey you promised after marriage you'd give me a blow job and I'm very dissatisfied. So much so that I regularly watch porn. I also want anal. I think we should divorce because I'm confident I can find a woman who will do these things for me. See what she has to say...


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> That's what was promised.
> 
> A blowjob.


Oh I should have added to the post above.

So she promised this once as an experience or like all the time?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh I should have added to the post above.
> 
> So she promised this once as an experience or like all the time?


Not all the time, but sometimes. 

Anything all the time becomes boring. I'm fine with routine sex regularly, with oral sex on occasion. 
She doesn't want to do it at all.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> That's what was promised.
> 
> A blowjob.


oh I also want to know. Why are you so fascinated by a blow job if she'll have sex, ride you and such. What exactly do you think, do you think a blowjob is better than vagina? I don't know about most men but my hubby far prefers vagina.

But I hate to be a harpy here but are you upset she never puts it in her mouth OR that she doesn't give you complete blow job. TAM always gets me confused on these things


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> So I guess she broke the deal. Sit her down say hey you promised after marriage you'd give me a blow job and I'm very dissatisfied. So much so that I regularly watch porn. I also want anal. I think we should divorce because I'm confident I can find a woman who will do these things for me. See what she has to say...


I'm staying married and using porn to fantasize about what I would like to do that she doesn't want to.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> oh I also want to know. Why are you so fascinated by a blow job if she'll have sex, ride you and such. What exactly do you think, do you think a blowjob is better than vagina? I don't know about most men but my hubby far prefers vagina.
> 
> But I hate to be a harpy here but are you upset she never puts it in her mouth OR that she doesn't give you complete blow job. TAM always gets me confused on these things


As I said, I would like the experience. If I didn't find it that great, that'd be fine.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I'm staying married and using porn to fantasize about what I would like to do that she doesn't want to.


And that's the worst answer.
Porn will just make you more disatisfied. If she knows you are watching it, most likely she'll feel unsafe and uncertain which will make her more conservative in bed not more willing. In fact it will most likely build resentment in her and make her less willing to have vanilla sex with you.

Does she know you watch porn. Has she expressed an opinion on it?


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> As I said, I would like the experience. If I didn't find it that great, that'd be fine.


still didn't answer. but,..

What experience. What do you think is the blow job? How do you think about it?
See for me often times... particularly in porn it is a power trip for the man. A one sided experience.
You do realize there are no pleasure sensors in our mouths right?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And that's the worst answer.
> Porn will just make you more disatisfied. If she knows you are watching it, most likely she'll feel unsafe and uncertain which will make her more conservative in bed not more willing. In fact it will most likely build resentment in her and make her less willing to have vanilla sex with you.
> 
> Does she know you watch porn. Has she expressed an opinion on it?


I don't tell her everything.
I disagree with that, since I'm limiting it to the things that she doesn't want to do. 

As I said, I shouldn't have to be unsatisfied myself, just because she doesn't want to do it.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> still didn't answer. but,..
> 
> What experience. What do you think is the blow job? How do you think about it?
> See for me often times... particularly in porn it is a power trip for the man. A one sided experience.
> You do realize there are no pleasure sensors in our mouths right?


It just would be nice. Not everything I do for her I get a kick out of it, but it pleases her so it's enough for me to do it as often as she wants it done.
Do you think that I get a kick out of giving her oral sex? It pleases her, so it's enough for me to want to.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I don't tell her everything.
> I disagree with that, since I'm limiting it to the things that she doesn't want to do.
> 
> As I said, I shouldn't have to be unsatisfied myself, just because she doesn't want to do it.


Again you didn't answer does she know you watch porn?


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I don't tell her everything.
> I disagree with that, since I'm limiting it to the things that she doesn't want to do.
> 
> As I said, I shouldn't have to be unsatisfied myself, just because she doesn't want to do it.


So you find porn satisfying yet another problem.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Again you didn't answer does she know you watch porn?


No. I wouldn't tell her. It allows me to be satisfied enough to not push her on the issue of giving me oral sex.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you find porn satisfying yet another problem.


I don't find it to be a problem.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> No. I wouldn't tell her. It allows me to be satisfied enough to not push her on the issue of giving me oral sex.


Wel you assume then that she doesn't know. That may not be the case. So if you aren't willing to have an open relationship with porn then that is sneaking behind her back and you need to poke around these threads women don't take kindly to hidden porn. It's a double slap in the face when they find out. They not only find out their husband are looking at other women, fantasizing about other women, looking at things that make them uncomfortable, They also find out their husbands are keeping secrets and LYING. 

Anyway. I wish you luck. It's obvious you are using porn and you want some permission to use it. Like if I only look at this.... If my wife would satisfy me.... You don't need to make excuses your and adult. 

What I will say is you sound inexperienced and most inexperienced men aren't that good at sex. You also sound like you may not know how to have a conversation with your wife that is neutral. Try having a sex conversation outside the bedroom and not at a time you want to have sex. Start with some compliment. LIke had last time we had sex and you were on top I really enjoyed that. Compliment her but in a meaningful way. Not some cliche, your so beautiful. We can smell BS. Do you know her love language? How is the rest of your relationship? Build a healthy open relationship that she feels safe in.

Have you ever broached the blow job subject with her? How did you broach it and what did she say? Have you asked her how she feels about it. Personally, I put my husbands penis in my mouth but it's part of foreplay and never meant to be a stand alone. Does he come? sometimes but I"m greedy and I like penis in vagina. However if he came and wanted one out of the blue so to speak. I'm not sure how I'd respond to that. I love him and want to please him but that doesn't fit our mutually satisfying identity we currently have. This goes back to how satisfying does your wife find your sex life? Does she orgasm. Maybe having sex is already an act she does to show you her love. I mean really if women are never orgasming or very infrequently or very low level orgasms well then we are just doing it for love of our man but you'll get a lot more traction if we are doing it because we are horny as hell.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I don't find it to be a problem.


And with that I can tell that I can't help you.

I wish you well.


----------



## Miriam246 (Oct 24, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


Have you tried to talk about other possibilities that can bring you more fulfillment without your wife participating? By that I mean, there are special places where man and woman can go and experience litlle bit more than just simple sex. And what she says when you tell her that simple sex is not enough for you?


----------



## jorginator (Oct 25, 2021)

Miriam246 said:


> Have you tried to talk about other possibilities that can bring you more fulfillment without your wife participating? By that I mean, there are special places where man and woman can go and experience litlle bit more than just simple sex. And what she says when you tell her that simple sex is not enough for you?


sounds like shes shy and scared of discovering new levels of lovemaking. i was up for 3 somes and **** long time ago, but i noticed my wife not. so i got over it. find something she likes and make her scream and not u


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

so, let me recap this... 11 pages of discussion about the OP asking us if it's ok he masturbates to anal porn because his wife only wants vanilla sex having changed her mind about it?

Yes, it is ok, jonty, as far as I'm concerned...


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> so, let me recap this... 11 pages of discussion about the OP asking us if it's ok he masturbates to anal porn because his wife only wants vanilla sex having changed her mind about it?
> 
> Yes, it is ok, jonty, as far as I'm concerned...


Aren't almost all of the threads like this?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Aren't almost all of the threads like this?


well, yes...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> so, let me recap this... 11 pages of discussion about the OP asking us if it's ok he masturbates to anal porn because his wife only wants vanilla sex having changed her mind about it?
> 
> Yes, it is ok, jonty, as far as I'm concerned...


Jaunty you mean?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Not looking at porn would be fine, if she was willing to meet my needs entirely. However, she only wants to do what is comfortable for her.
> Yes, I do give her oral, which is probably part of the dissatisfaction.


Then stop it.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Where is this stupidity coming from? I'm guessing you don't know what a "cuckold" is.
> 
> A cuckold is a man whose wife cheats on him, it's *NOT* a whiny fool having a little tantrum and putting his foot down, demanding his wife start performing like Bubbles the porn star because he "refuses to be a cuckold." Unless she's cheated on you and you've hung around anyway, you're *NOT* a cuckold for the love of all that's holy.
> 
> ...


Sole.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> oh I also want to know. Why are you so fascinated by a blow job if she'll have sex, ride you and such. What exactly do you think, do you think a blowjob is better than vagina? ....


Forbidden fruit. If she would give him a couple BJs, he would probably then be satisfied, and he would stop asking.
but as she refuses, and in a way that makes him think he was tricked, it bothers him. he is fantasizing about it as "the best sex that could ever happen".....

OP, any chance you could trick her into it under ideal conditions? i.e, you get her drunk, both in a hot tube so you are totally clean, then whip it out....


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> oh I also want to know. Why are you so fascinated by a blow job if she'll have sex, ride you and such. What exactly do you think, do you think a blowjob is better than vagina? I don't know about most men but my hubby far prefers vagina.
> 
> But I hate to be a harpy here but are you upset she never puts it in her mouth OR that she doesn't give you complete blow job. TAM always gets me confused on these things


Do you have to even ask why a guy wants a good bj, complete, in the sexual tool box of a couples' sexual relationship?
Really?

Again, really? Yes, I'm pushing this a bit.

It sure sounds like you're telling OP he's weird for wanting to give and get good oral. Which is waaaayyyy not.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I like blow jobs _and_ vaginas...


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Do you have to even ask why a guy wants a good bj, complete, in the sexual tool box of a couples' sexual relationship?
> Really?
> 
> Again, really? Yes, I'm pushing this a bit.
> ...


I never said he was weird. I WAS trying to help him and get into his thinking. But it's ok you reassure him that having a wife who has sex with him isn't enough. Porn is great and his marriage will be awesome oh wait no he should divorce her instead of trying to actually work on any issues.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I never said he was weird. I WAS trying to help him and get into his thinking. But it's ok you reassure him that having a wife who has sex with him isn't enough. Porn is great and his marriage will be awesome oh wait no he should divorce her instead of trying to actually work on any issues.


But there are no issues to fix because she says "no". So, he has 3 choices: accepts it with vanilla sex, accepts it with vanilla sex and a side dish of porn, or divorce.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> I never said he was weird. I WAS trying to help him and get into his thinking. But it's ok you reassure him that having a wife who has sex with him isn't enough. Porn is great and his marriage will be awesome oh wait no he should divorce her instead of trying to actually work on any issues.


Are you saying he should accept with a smile never getting bj or not?
Answer truthfully. He does oral for her cause he likes it.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I'm staying married and using porn to fantasize about what I would like to do that she doesn't want to.


Why settle for just wanking to porn? If you have a subpar marital sex life, with a woman who promised one thing and didn't deliver. There's no shame in dumping your wife for breach of promise, and sensibly seeking a more honest and more capable, higher quality replacement.

Although if you want to stay married and use porn, feel free to have at it, since it's not like you need permission. That said I do encourage you not to hide it from your wife and if she doesn't like it, I recommend you tell her to "get over it".


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Have you ever tried using the porn lines? Try out the porn lines on her like you’re doing a scene and see what happens.

Just tell her exactly what to do with it and if she says no just say “I’m serious” then repeat the line.

This might not work.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Porn??? Where is CatholicDad when we need him?


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Personal said:


> Why settle for just wanking to porn? If you have a subpar marital sex life, with a woman who promised one thing and didn't deliver. There's no shame in dumping your wife for breach of promise, and sensibly seeking a more honest and more capable, higher quality replacement.
> 
> Although if you want to stay married and use porn, feel free to have at it, since it's not like you need permission. That said I do encourage you not to hide it from your wife and if she doesn't like it, I recommend you tell her to "get over it".


For once I actually agree with Personal. Watch it right out in the open and if she says she doesn't like it, tell her if she doesn't want real sex and some exciting things like BJs, than this is the next best thing.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> But there are no issues to fix because she says "no". So, he has 3 choices: accepts it with vanilla sex, accepts it with vanilla sex and a side dish of porn, or divorce.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are you saying he should accept with a smile never getting bj or not?
> Answer truthfully. He does oral for her cause he likes it.


Personally I don't think a stand alone BJ is required for many relationships. I've never had a man request or require on. I have also never requested or required stand alone oral. While my number of men is limited it isn't zero or 1. I do think oral has it's place for both. But this isn't about me.

He indicated he resents giving her oral so no he doesn't do it cuase he likes it. I think in this case he was 'told' he'd get a BJ and he hasn't so I completely agree that he could divorce over this. I also noticed he hasn't answered like it he has actually talked with her about this resentment he's building and what she has said. 

I don't think he's very experienced. I'm not sure how experienced she is and that can effect the menu quite a bit. He seems passive agressive which never works out well. He's indicated in other threads that most men are almost celibate before marriage.

So tell the truth. Ragnar. Does he seem like the type that can just go out and get laid?


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Personally I don't think a stand alone BJ is required for many relationships. I've never had a man request or require on. I have also never requested or required stand alone oral. While my number of men is limited it isn't zero or 1. I do think oral has it's place for both. But this isn't about me.
> 
> He indicated he resents giving her oral so no he doesn't do it cuase he likes it. I think in this case he was 'told' he'd get a BJ and he hasn't so I completely agree that he could divorce over this. I also noticed he hasn't answered like it he has actually talked with her about this resentment he's building and what she has said.
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound like we are talking about standalone blow jobs. Sounds like HE never gets any kind of oral, even during foreplay.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> So tell the truth. Ragnar. Does he seem like the type that can just go out and get laid?


Nope! Unfortunately that chip on his shoulder, combined with a terribly skewed perspective does him no favours at all. Plus if he was the kind of man who would inspire what he wants, then he would already be getting it frequently. Yet he isn't because he isn't.

Perhaps he might change, perhaps he might get experience, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think in this case he was 'told' he'd get a BJ and he hasn't so I completely agree that he could divorce over this. I also noticed he hasn't answered like it he has actually talked with her about this resentment he's building and what she has said.


I wonder if he heard what he wanted to hear, prior to marriage? 

Do I picture this person having an honest, direct conversation with his girlfriend where the two of them are being openly frank about their preferences, and she's promising blow jobs after marriage? It's a possibility, but I doubt it.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Personal said:


> Plus if he was the kind of man who would inspire what he wants, then he would already be getting it frequently.


That’s why I suggested the above. 

It worked for me the other day. Wife was on her period and was giving me a HJ and I’m like why don’t you just suck it? She’s like nah… Then “I’m serious just pretend it’s a lollipop.” Crap right out of a porn script, it worked.

Try it out OP it may work for you too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> I never said he was weird. I WAS trying to help him and get into his thinking. But it's ok you reassure him that having a wife who has sex with him isn't enough. Porn is great and his marriage will be awesome oh wait no he should divorce her instead of trying to actually work on any issues.


Again, your still saying, it sounds begrudgingly, ok, but there's still something wrong with him. Why??


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Personally I don't think a stand alone BJ is required for many relationships. I've never had a man request or require on. I have also never requested or required stand alone oral. While my number of men is limited it isn't zero or 1. I do think oral has it's place for both. But this isn't about me.
> 
> He indicated he resents giving her oral so no he doesn't do it cuase he likes it. I think in this case he was 'told' he'd get a BJ and he hasn't so I completely agree that he could divorce over this. I also noticed he hasn't answered like it he has actually talked with her about this resentment he's building and what she has said.
> 
> ...


He seems like a guy that if he could bust out of the continuous loop of accepting his Ws telling he shouldn't want a bj, he has a chance of then learning and accepting it's ok to want more than duty poon, and he might see there are other options and start working on himself.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> so, let me recap this... 11 pages of discussion about the OP asking us if it's ok he masturbates to anal porn because his wife only wants vanilla sex having changed her mind about it?
> 
> Yes, it is ok, jonty, as far as I'm concerned...


Apparently, our permission is needed.
He does not have it in him to give himself permission.


Many humans are like this, they are not free spirits.
They are bonded, bound to every rule imaginable, just members of the plain flock.

Yes, rules and boundaries are very good things, but not all are divine.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Livvie said:


> She promised him after they got married she would be open to doing more things with him. Then went back on that.


Exactly, when you have options you don't even entertain silliness like that.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Doesn't sound like we are talking about standalone blow jobs. Sounds like HE never gets any kind of oral, even during foreplay.


I never asked for a "standalone" one... during sex, yes... but to be honest, I never really had to ask...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Personal said:


> Plus if he was the kind of man who would inspire what he wants, then he would already be getting it frequently. Yet he isn't because he isn't.


It's the rare day that I disagree with you, but this is one.

No one can inspire a partner to do that which they actively dislike. Trying to do so is not inspirational, it is abusive.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Someone in a sexually incompatible marriage who desires to stay in that marriage needs tools.

The only "permission" you need to take the edge off of your unmet sexual needs come from your wife. It is not unreasonable to say that this is a "price of admission". If she wishes to continue to be the decider on what you will and will not do in the bedroom, and the intersection of your mutual needs is not very large, you have the right to say to her face that you will find other outlets for your wants that are compatible with a monogamous marriage. She has the right to decide if that is acceptable to her.

You probably shouldn't lie about it, but you should also be as respectful as you can be, since her (by your standards) small sexual world isn't a failing nor an evil act against you. It just is.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cletus said:


> You probably shouldn't lie about it, but you should also be as respectful as you can be, since her (by your standards) small sexual world isn't a failing nor an evil act against you. It just is


If she said she was going to suck it after marriage and then didn’t, then OP got swindled. 

However it’s weird to go along with that and expect it to happen in the first place, what’s wrong with right then? Being married doesn’t change what’s happening there.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> If she said she was going to suck it after marriage and then didn’t, then OP got swindled.
> 
> However it’s weird to go along with that and expect it to happen in the first place, what’s wrong with right then? Being married doesn’t change what’s happening there.


Without defending it, the swindled part isn't really the problem here. In the parallel world where she fulfilled that promise, it would have happened a half a dozen times and then never again, and we'd be right back at this place. Because while the discussion has narrowed to two sexual acts, it's as clear as the nose on your face that these two people do not view sex the same way. 

What do you do when you are in a sexually incompatible marriage, especially when you want to avoid divorce?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cletus said:


> What do you do when you are in a sexually incompatible marriage, especially when you want to avoid divorce


What I did was get frustrated and then stop trying to avoid divorce.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> No one can inspire a partner to do that which they actively dislike. Trying to do so is not inspirational, it is abusive.


I'm not sure how being the kind of man who can inspire a women (who wants to do those things), to enthusiastically desire to consensually share such activities with him is abusive.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> What do you do when you are in a sexually incompatible marriage, especially when you want to avoid divorce?












Joshua says "the only winning move is not to play."


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Personal said:


> I'm not sure how being the kind of man who can inspire a women (*who wants to do those things*), to enthusiastically desire to consensually share such activities with him is abusive.


Ok, now that the statement is clarified, I withdraw my objection. 

There are plenty of men who could inspire such a woman, but who are not getting everything they want because no such woman is available. And likewise no doubt the other way around, just to keep Elle off my back.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> There are plenty of men who could inspire such a woman, but who are not getting everything they want *because no such woman is available*.


There’s always Down Under.






“Because I come from the land of plenty” - Men at Work


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> That's what was promised.
> 
> A blowjob.


The way your mind has defined not getting oral sex as meaning you are a cuckold, are you sure you two were on the same wave length when you were talking about oral before marriage? Could she have been telling you that she would enjoy sucking on a bag of tootsie roll pops?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Could she have been telling you that she would enjoy sucking on a bag of tootsie roll pops


I hope it wouldn’t end like those old commercials with the wise owl who tries to figure out how many licks it takes, one…. two… three… CRUNCH… Three! The world may never know!


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I have a question for you. When you and he did talk about a 3 way, was it going to be 2 women and him? Was he open to another guy, him, and you?


Either way. He was really into the idea of adding another guy, but now that we've been together a few years, I'm pretty sure it's a case of a fantasy created by watching porn. Adding another woman we talked about less, but definitely played with that idea too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Ok, now that the statement is clarified, I withdraw my objection.
> 
> There are plenty of men who could inspire such a woman, but who are not getting everything they want because no such woman is available. And likewise no doubt the other way around, just to keep Elle off my back.


What?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What?


The original quote to which I was responding:



Personal said:


> Plus if he was the kind of man who would inspire what he wants, then he would already be getting it frequently. Yet he isn't because he isn't.
> 
> Perhaps he might change, perhaps he might get experience, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.


No amount of inspiration will induce someone who actively doesn't want to do something to try it.

There is no man on the planet who could inspire my wife to try oral sex. It isn't about _him_, it's about _her_. OP wants two things that are simply off the menu for many women. Chris Hemsworth couldn't get them interested, and their husbands certainly are not going to either, through no failing on their part.

When I say no woman like that is around, I mean a spouse in a monogamous marriage. You cannot inspire someone to sexual acts who is off limits.

If there are two evils here, 

1. Divorce
2. Porn use

then a couple committed to staying together may have to decide which evil is worse. There is no universally correct answer.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cletus said:


> The original quote to which I was responding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While I some what agree you can't 'inspire' a woman to sex acts. I think there is some important parts that are being skipped. Most people don't start their sexual experiences wide open and with a full menu. Many couple grow to know one another and become more comfortable. There may still be room to grow. Though I'm certain OP isn't the growing type so yeah back to square one.

For example me and my husband didn't do anal until like 22 years of marriage.
And Chris Hemsworth isn't sticking around long enough for me to feel that comfortable. So the 'next' man if there ever was one. Maynever get that part of the menu because it is also about being comfortable with yourself and with your partner.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> While I somwhat agree you can't 'inspire' a woman to sex acts. I think there is some important parts that are being skipped. Most people don't start their sexual experiences wide open and with a full menu. Many couple grow to know one another and become more comfortable. There may still be room to grow. Though I'm certain OP isn't the growing type so yeah back to square one.


Not knowing everything that might one day be on the menu is not the same as knowing everything that will absolutely be off the menu, for all time. Some of us have partners like this, who know exactly what they like and draw a very sharp binary line. Either something is good and enjoyable, or it never can be, and more importantly, no attempt will ever be made to verify. 

Those kinds of partners are not lacking in sexual expression because they are not comfortable with their spouses.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cletus said:


> Not knowing everything that might one day be on the menu is not the same as knowing everything that will absolutely be off the menu, for all time. Some of us have partners like this, who know exactly what they like and draw a very sharp binary line. Either something is good and enjoyable, or it never can be, and more importantly, no attempt will ever be made to verify.
> 
> Those kinds of partners are not lacking in sexual expression because they are not comfortable with their spouses.


Yes so we have all said he could divorce since he claims to have been tricked. Or just lacking. But he refuses.

So which is better at least trying to understand his wife and become more comfortable or spank to porn behind her back (which most women figure it out anyway) and build resentment?

I completely understand and agree that some women may never get there but they certainly won't with lying and hiding and not even trying. If you had asked me 20 years ago about anal I would have said no, it's a boundary for me. I'm the one that asked my husband for it. 

If you had asked me about blowjobs right after married. I would 'give' him one occasionally and spit after. Not because of the mythical lack of attraction that all the TAMer's sight but because it made me want to vomit. I didn't love my husband less then than now (well actually I did because it has grown over time). I had a change. Now I do oral and swallow and love starting it. I don't like finishing because I like PIV and because he gets to big in my mouth and hits the uvala triggering the gag reflex sometimes. People do grow and become more sexual or can. I gaurantee we have more sex now than after we first got married.

But it seems TAM is once again not interested in asking questions and trying to actual help him there are only what 3 standard answers
1. divorce
2. live with it . Oh and the man up. 
3. porn is good. and ok but not enough.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> The original quote to which I was responding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I gotcha. Thanks for detailing.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> But it seems TAM is once again not interested in asking questions and trying to actual help him there are only what 3 standard answers
> 1. divorce
> 2. live with it . Oh and the man up.
> 3. porn is good. and ok but not enough.


So do you think your trajectory is common? I haven't seen a lot of posts around here from women who didn't like giving head who grew eventually to love it. Some, like my wife, are absolutely repulsed by the thought. It makes her physically ill just to think about it. I have been told in no unclear terms that death will precede any blowjob in my house. You would "give him one occasionally and spit afterwards". Do you realize the vast chasm between you and someone like OP's wife, or mine? 

I am not going to apologize for being a full-throated realist. In what little experience I have personally, in forums like this, and listening to Savage Love, "live with it or leave" is the best advice one can possibly receive, because it will much more often than not be the reality. Far more useful than pinning hopes that it will slowly change over time. I think you are the exception. 

And good on you, too, for making the effort.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes so we have all said he could divorce since he claims to have been tricked. Or just lacking. But he refuses.
> 
> So which is better at least trying to understand his wife and become more comfortable or spank to porn behind her back (which most women figure it out anyway) and build resentment?
> 
> ...


So are you saying women don't masturbate? Thus, man never should? Not referring to porn.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So are you saying women don't masturbate? Thus, man never should? Not referring to porn.


My wife said she sometimes masturbated when I was away on business trips and having that knowledge was amazing and very helpful.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife said she sometimes masturbated when I was away on business trips and having that knowledge was amazing and very helpful.


That's what I'm saying, and all good 👍👍.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So are you saying women don't masturbate? Thus, man never should? Not referring to porn.


I never said anything about masturbation so it's a straw argument.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

But don't porn and masturbation go 'hand in hand'? Sorry I just couldn't resist.


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

OP, your biggest mistake was believing your wife would become _more_ sexual after you got married. It doesn’t work that way, like ever. I also don’t find it unreasonable for you to want a bj to completion. In fact, it’s a requirement in my book. So, knowing nothing is going to change with her, what are you going to do about it? Keep stroking to porn for the next 40 years? Does that seem appealing to you? That’s the trajectory you are on. You can’t change her, but you can replace her.


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I wouldn't divorce over a lack of BJ's unless I was sure they were a deal breaker, which OP can't be because he's never had one.

How about this OP: tell your wife how you feel. Tell her you want to experience a blow job. Without coming off as overly dramatic, tell her you don't want to die without ever having felt what it's like. 

Don't blame or shame her, or guilt her. Acknowledge that it's a hard conversation to have so honestly. Then listen to her. Be vulnerable. 

That's _real_ intimacy.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

northernlights said:


> I wouldn't divorce over a lack of BJ's unless I was sure they were a deal breaker, which OP can't be because he's never had one.
> 
> How about this OP: tell your wife how you feel. Tell her you want to experience a blow job. Without coming off as overly dramatic, tell her you don't want to die without ever having felt what it's like.
> 
> ...


I haven't read that he's never had one.... just not with her.


----------



## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

I say no, at least I won’t use porn as baseline or reference.

Look, those are “professional actors”, doing things and acting for the pleasure of the eyes. So what they do or how they act doesn’t reflect what really works in real life situation, which may also set up unrealistic expectation like, “if I do this, she will react this way”. Sometimes it’s just not the case. And if she doesn’t, it may lead to you questioning if she is into it.

if there is “normal” sex life, I won’t even think porn is a good “supplement”. But of course, your mileage may vary.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DLC said:


> I say no, at least I won’t use porn as baseline or reference.
> 
> Look, those are “professional actors”, doing things and acting for the pleasure of the eyes. So what they do or how they act doesn’t reflect what really works in real life situation, which may also set up unrealistic expectation like, “if I do this, she will react this way”. Sometimes it’s just not the case. And if she doesn’t, it may lead to you questioning if she is into it.
> 
> if there is “normal” sex life, I won’t even think porn is a good “supplement”. But of course, your mileage may vary.


Did you read the thread?

His wife told him she'd participate (give him) oral sex when they got married. They got married. But she lied, she actually won't provide him any oral sex. That's what the thread is about. It's not about unrealistic porn expectations. Plenty of average run of the mill couples experience oral sex.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> So do you think your trajectory is common? I haven't seen a lot of posts around here from women who didn't like giving head who grew eventually to love it. Some, like my wife, are absolutely repulsed by the thought. It makes her physically ill just to think about it. I have been told in no unclear terms that death will precede any blowjob in my house. You would "give him one occasionally and spit afterwards". Do you realize the vast chasm between you and someone like OP's wife, or mine?


Hmmm....... On paper and to a point my wife was probably closer to your wife than many people, and for a time she was perhaps even more reluctant to have sex in the first place than your wife.

Unlike myself who had always enjoyed a rich smorgasbord of sexual delights ever since I was 16 and especially 17, my wife managed to remain a virgin until she was a few months shy of turning 26.

Although she did have some boyfriends before that and some had even propose marriage to her as well. Yet she never had sex with anyone, had never had a penis touch her lips or enter her mouth and had never seen a man orgasm, or let any touch her snatch. Although she did pash some and let a couple touch her boobs a little. In fact she was so riven with sexual shame, that she'd only tried masturbating a few times (and she still seldom masturbates today). Plus she even gave some very serious consideration to becoming a nun, until she read the Bible in her early twenties.

Then when she finally popped her cherry, she did it with a divorced man 12 years her senior, who expressed his interest at the right time. Funnily enough while she was with him, she told him she was nervous inexperienced and wasn't keen on having a penis even touch her lips let alone go into her mouth. In response he was accommodating and patient with her reluctance, and reassured her, there was absolutely no pressure and she could do it whenever she was ready. So being scared of the idea of it and also thinking it was gross and wrong. She felt his accommodation was an invitation for her to never have to do it for him at all and that was even with him giving her oral sex.

Then she met me and we ended up starting a sexual relationship together. Where shortly after the beginning of that relationship while waiting for a ferry she 'confessed", that she had never done a blowjob and had never had a penis near her mouth. She also told me she was reluctant to do that, didn't know how to do it and was nervous about it as well. in response I told her something along the lines of, you don't need to worry about it since you're going to get lots of practice.

...

Of which many years later as prompted by an old discussion here on TAM. She told me if I instead reassured her there was no pressure and was okay with waiting, she wouldn't have started giving me fellatio. She knew that plenty of men were interested in getting that, yet she had hangups with the idea of it and many other things. Thinking it was icky and that she would be a lesser person for doing it, combined with a fear of it.

What changed for her was my easy presumption and expectation without compulsion (given it was simply always so in my previous sexual relationships) that reciprocal oral sex, was a basic and foundational part of a rich and healthy heterosexual relationship. While she also rightly felt (though I never said it), that I would certainly quickly end our sexual relationship without it.

Plus more importantly for her, she liked that I said she would get lots of practice, because it took pressure off her trying it and doing it. She liked that I thought she could do it and thought she was up to it and that being lustfully sexual wasn't shameful at all. She felt my expectation of such things and more, gave her the resolve to challenge her own fears and to try things that were out of her comfort zone. She found it liberating and exciting to have her fears challenged, so she did it, then did it more, and found it freeing for her to consume and be consumed sexually.

So for many years since after some practice it turns out she enjoys giving blowjobs and is good at it, she swallows, takes facials, dribbles the cum out of her mouth onto each of her nipples for me, mixes it up with prostate massage for me or she will do anallingus on me as well plus plenty more. Just as she also enjoys anal sex and many other things as well, having been inspired to feel free and safe to explore such things. Which still drives continued exploration together and a still expanding variety within our sexual relationship today as we get older.

...

And pornography was another thing, in all of my time with different women none had an issue with pornography and were happy to look at it and watch it themselves which had nothing to do with me and was thus before me as well.

My wife on the other hand certainly expressed issue with it though, saying something like I don't know if I'm okay with you looking at pornography (some very hardcore European magazines and some VHS videos). In response I told her that I'm okay with it, she was welcome not to be okay with it, yet what I choose to do is entirely up to me. I also asked her if she had ever looked at any pornography before and she told me she hadn't. So I also told her she should try because she might like it.

There was of course more discussion on this with respect to personal perspectives, arguments for and against in terms of ethics and behaviour and the history of such things.

Yet like blowjobs she thought about it and liked that I didn't yield to her objections, which then led her to giving it a go as well. At one point she even felt she ought to feel threatened by my viewing other naked women in pornography or in person through some of my work Yet on thinking about it she realised it didn't bother her at all. So she let go of the idea that she was supposed to feel that way.

Fast forward to today, she is not opposed to pornography, enjoys looking and watching some of it and not all of it (like myself), is fine with me looking at it, and is fine with our bedroom having a bookshelf filled with books featuring nudity, erotica and pornography. While also enthusiastically posing for our own home made high production quality (as a consequence of my background) nude, erotic and pornographic still photography, motion pictures, drawings and paintings.

...

Yet there is no compulsion for my wife, she does what she chooses as do I, and that doesn't mean neither of us don't have boundaries. Yet for both of us the responsibility for what we accept or don't accept as individuals remains our own responsibility as individuals.

Given all of that I think it's fair of me to believe that I made a difference in helping to bring out her sexuality.

...

That said my wife feels that given a lot of the sexual tales of woe here on TAM, that if she were married to those men that aren't getting much if any sexual variety or sex at all from their spouses. She certainly wouldn't be doing the myriad of things she enjoys like blowjobs, anal sex and many other things besides, and she would have probably turned the sex tap off for them as well.

Since according to her their whole approach and attitude towards sharing sex, would have allowed her to never find out that she enjoys so many things sexually, because she would have felt safe to have never done such things. To the point that if she were with another man, her partner may have eventually found his way to TAM complaining about never getting any blowjobs or never getting sex from his wife.

So who you are and how you behave, can make a substantial difference to the kind of sex life that you get to share and develop with others going forward.

...

One thing for sure @jonty30 would have a far better chance at having a richer sex life with whoever, by changing his mindset towards women and sexual relations which are repellant and don't serve him well. Not settling for less, by being being willing to end sexual relationships that he finds wanting. And not buying such extraordinary nonsense from a woman who hasn't given him blowjobs. That she will start giving them after they get married, or whatever other hoops a woman asks him to jump through.

That said if he can't change or won't change, then he will have the sex life which that affords and that's certainly okay as well.

At the end of the day, as they say measure twice and cut once.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Personal said:


> While she also rightly felt (though I never said it), that I would certainly quickly end our sexual relationship without it.


Again here we have a guy who is desirable and the woman in the story believes he will leave unless she satisfies him sexually and guess what, she figures it out.

The three major components:

1. She wants to be with him.
2. In order to be with him, she knows he needs to be sexually satisfied with her.
3. He is reasonable and not a **** about it.

OP do you have all these components in place? I’m guessing not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I understand the term. I don't mean it literally, where she's going out during the marriage and leaving me at home. I mean in terms of that she was willing to offer herself to other men to do things, but she is unwilling to offer herself to me to do those same things. It's a lesser position that she wants me to take.


How do you know she is willing to offer herself to men to do things with them that she won't do with you?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How do you know she is willing to offer herself to men to do things with them that she won't do with you?


I was speaking about before she met me.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

This thread really isn’t that different from mine. Sex life with my wife has dwindled from all the time in the beginning, to semi regularly after a few years, to now almost non-existent after 10 years together and 5 years married. And with that change in frequency have come new limits in place. She won’t do oral (giving or receiving), won’t do any other positions besides missionary. Just boring vanilla sex.

She was married once before me. And I know that the same thing became an issue for that guy. The lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything remotely exciting in bed.

Yet once she divorced him, in the year before me, she dated four or five guys. And I’ve seen the texts. She was blowing them left and right, letting them go down on her, etc. It was the same when we were first dating too. She was much more adventurous with me. So it’s interesting that with someone new she would do whatever they wanted. But with a caring, loving, and stable husband she doesn’t want to do anything.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I was speaking about before she met me.


You mentioned multiple times that she would do it if she had an affair. You are presuming she would have an affair AND that she would do things with them that she won't with you. That is a pretty pessimistic view of the situation. 

So you know she has done it with other men prior to you, but she associates some kind of trauma from it? What is this trauma? I'm guess she thought she would get over the pain the trauma caused once she had the comfort and safety of a marriage. Has she had therapy for the trauma?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You mentioned multiple times that she would do it if she had an affair. You are presuming she would have an affair AND that she would do things with them that she won't with you. That is a pretty pessimistic view of the situation.
> 
> So you know she has done it with other men prior to you, but she associates some kind of trauma from it? What is this trauma? I'm guess she thought she would get over the pain the trauma caused once she had the comfort and safety of a marriage. Has she had therapy for the trauma?


The context of that is a woman's tendency to act more freely and daring when she is having an affair. So, the overall context is what she did before she met me and what she might do if she had an affair, but not willing to do with me personally. I was speaking on principle on that. 

She's not having an affair.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

I think the same. Given my wife’s track record with how she acted with guys she dated before me if she was having an affair I have no doubt she’d do whatever the AP wanted.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> The context of that is a woman's tendency to act more freely and daring when she is having an affair. So, the overall context is what she did before she met me and what she might do if she had an affair, but not willing to do with me personally. I was speaking on principle on that.
> 
> She's not having an affair.


What about the trauma you eluded to? Has she received counseling for the trauma that is making her think negatively about fairly routine sex acts with her husband?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> That's why I suggest giving attention and gifts, without preconditions attached. It takes time to build up trust again. However, there is a limit, if she is not responding to acts of courtship. The relationship could very well be over in her mind.


No, don't start with the gifts giving and all out I'll kiss your ass and do all these chores, and try to earn good sex.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What about the trauma you eluded to? Has she received counseling for the trauma that is making her think negatively about fairly routine sex acts with her husband?


It's not trauma, just the usual negative boyfriend experiences from the past. 
NO rapes or molestations or anything like that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

No trauma, check.

The fact she did or didn't do certain things before M to you really has NOTHING to do with your married sex life, sex life today.

So if you think or talk now about it don't even mention the before. If she does, remind her that has nothing to do with today period.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No trauma, check.
> 
> The fact she did or didn't do certain things before M to you really has NOTHING to do with your married sex life, sex life today.
> 
> So if you think or talk now about it don't even mention the before. If she does, remind her that has nothing to do with today period.


How does that have nothing to do with married sex life today? Wouldn’t it be valid for one to think, “why was so and so worthy of being blown but not me? What made her so attracted to him that she was willing to forgo any sense of sexual boundaries?”


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Why do you center finding a solution around what she's done before, years ago, instead of yours and hers relationship of today?

You're dwelling on the past. Deal with circumstances today, reasons, desires, conditions of today.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jjj858 said:


> “why was so and so worthy of being blown but not me?


Not everyone generates such desire. Which in the big scheme of things, what they did with someone else is irrelevant.

All that really matters, is what you both choose to do and choose not to do with each other. So if you don’t like not getting to share something sexually with your sexual partner/s, You can always choose to end such relationships.

One thing for sure, no one has any obligation to do sexual acts with their current sexual partners. If they don’t want to do them, regardless of whether they did such things in the past even if they enjoyed it, because people aren’t property.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jjj858 said:


> How does that have nothing to do with married sex life today? *Wouldn’t it be valid for one to think, “why was so and so worthy of being blown but not me?* What made her so attracted to him that she was willing to forgo any sense of sexual boundaries?”


Just hearing you whine this way makes me want to say hey bonehead, don't be a weenie.

Find today's reasons she'll want to experiment with YOU. You keeping saying hey you were his **** why won't you AUTOMATICALLY be my **** reeks of you meaning hey do me cause you did him, not the real life situation of hey let's try this because of you and me. Stop bringing him into the conversation. Duh.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

jjj858 said:


> Yet once she divorced him, in the year before me, she dated four or five guys. And I’ve seen the texts. She was blowing them left and right, letting them go down on her, etc. It was the same when we were first dating too. She was much more adventurous with me. So it’s interesting that with someone new she would do whatever they wanted. But with a caring, loving, and stable husband she doesn’t want to do anything.


there is a bonafide technical psychology term for that: Madonna W***e syndrome.
sounds like she has it bad! You, as the hubby, are only shown the angel Madonna side of her personality, because you have to prop her up on a pedestal


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> How does that have nothing to do with married sex life today? Wouldn’t it be valid for one to think, “why was so and so worthy of being blown but not me? What made her so attracted to him that she was willing to forgo any sense of sexual boundaries?”


Suppose your wife tried anal and oral with a previous lover and hated it and hated the memory of doing it. Would you be upset if she didn't try it with you?

What if a previous lover talked you into letting her peg you and you hated it. Now your wife wants to peg you, would you let her?

Also, as others have said, there are varying levels of desire and passion. My wife isn't crazy about giving me oral out of the blue, but if I get her turned on enough she can be ravenous. It is sad if a husband can't turn on their wife in that way, but it does happen. You have to find a way to trigger that passion, live with status quo or move on. Not many other choices.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Some people are just wired to be hyper-sexual during the "new relationship" phase. They uber-validate their new partner (or the person they WANT to be their new partner) in every way imaginable. Then when the comfort and familiarity set in, the desire wanes a great deal, and the other partner is left saying, "What the hell?! Where did Ms. Sexy go?!" I've spoken to men who claim to see this switch flip when they first move into together... or as soon as they say "I do". 
A lot of guys erroneously think this was some malicious and "bait and switch" act on the part of the wife when no... she just genuinely lost sexual desire the moment everything became certain and comfortable. It's a real fight and real work for her to get to that headspace again...and who the hell wants more work?!



jjj858 said:


> This thread really isn’t that different from mine. Sex life with my wife has dwindled from all the time in the beginning, to semi regularly after a few years, to now almost non-existent after 10 years together and 5 years married. And with that change in frequency have come new limits in place. She won’t do oral (giving or receiving), won’t do any other positions besides missionary. Just boring vanilla sex.
> 
> She was married once before me. And I know that the same thing became an issue for that guy. The lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything remotely exciting in bed.
> 
> Yet once she divorced him, in the year before me, she dated four or five guys. And I’ve seen the texts. She was blowing them left and right, letting them go down on her, etc. It was the same when we were first dating too. She was much more adventurous with me. So it’s interesting that with someone new she would do whatever they wanted. But with a caring, loving, and stable husband she doesn’t want to do anything.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She probably tried it with a couple guys and decided she didn't like it and wasn't bringing that into the next relationship because she didn't like it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She probably tried it with a couple guys and decided she didn't like it and wasn't bringing that into the next relationship because she didn't like it.


If she was abused, assaulted, raped etc etc that may be the case. 

But people generally do what they want to do and don’t do what they don’t. 

If she was engaging in those activities, then she dug it, otherwise she wouldn’t have done it the second time. 

Now over time as she lost interest and attraction for those guys like she has for Jonty, then she probably stopped doing it at some point and then they eventually split up.

If she and Jonty ultimately split up, she will be back in the saddle again with the next guy(s). 

And the next chick he gets with will be enthusiastically doing it him as well ...... until years down the road when that chick gets bored with him - Rinse and repeat. 

It’s a pattern we have as a species. If there are alien anthropologists observing our mating behaviors from space, they will note that we have a lot of hot and heavy monkey sex (human sex?) in the early stages of our relationships that dwindles down to much less frequent, mechanical and straight-forward sex after a number of years to almost no sex in the later stages of our relationships.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> If she was abused, assaulted, raped etc etc that may be the case.
> 
> But people generally do what they want to do and don’t do what they don’t.
> 
> ...


No, I really doubt you've ever blown a guy, Oldshirt. Women try things because they know guys want them to, but in many cases, it's not anything they enjoy. It may have something to do with trauma, but in general, no. It's just that they tried it and didn't like it at all. It does nothing for them. It was unpleasant to them. So they stop doing it because they just don't want to and don't enjoy it. It's really that simple. They really don't care if the guy gets butthurt and thinks he's entitled to it only because they know she tried it before and quit. There's all degrees of acquiescence from none to high frequency just depending on each woman and just how much she dislikes it. Young women will try things because they're curious. But once they don't like it, at that point, it depends on just how bad they don't like it or mind doing it. Most I've known don't think men should ask for it but that they would rather occasionally give them a special treat but aren't about to make that particular eggamuffin their daily fare.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

dadstartingover said:


> Some people are just wired to be hyper-sexual during the "new relationship" phase. They uber-validate their new partner (or the person they WANT to be their new partner) in every way imaginable. Then when the comfort and familiarity set in, the desire wanes a great deal, and the other partner is left saying, "What the hell?! Where did Ms. Sexy go?!" I've spoken to men who claim to see this switch flip when they first move into together... or as soon as they say "I do".
> A lot of guys erroneously think this was some malicious and "bait and switch" act on the part of the wife when no... she just genuinely lost sexual desire the moment everything became certain and comfortable. It's a real fight and real work for her to get to that headspace again...and who the hell wants more work?!


I agree with this for the most part. Things definitely settled down in this regard once we moved in after about a year dating. During our weekly dates usually on the weekend sex was almost always guaranteed and she was up for anything. Once we moved in it was like I was too familiar to her and she didn’t need to expend any sort of effort anymore. My advice to guys: don’t move in together. Lol

My bigger question is why does this seem to be such a phenomenon with females mainly? It seems like loss of desire once in a stable comfortable relationship is such a common thing with them. Whereas most men still seem to maintain a higher level of sexual attraction to their SO. The posts here by men whose wives won’t sleep with them outnumber them posts from wives saying their husbands won’t sleep with them.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OK, I identify a bit with the OP. Prior to marriage, I sat down and explained to my wife to be that oral sex was very imporant to me. She told me it was much too intimate prior to marriage, but that after marriage, her love for me would grow and she would provide me with what I needed. We talked about it. She explained how the nuns at the schools she was educated in had explained to her that nothing a man and woman did after marriage was a problem.

Well after we were married a while, I asked about that BJ. She told me it was a disgusting vile and humiliating sex act that she could not do. We fought over it. Later she told me that she was saving that and kinky things for later in our marriage to keep the flame of passion alive.

Well two kids later and 50+ years of marriage, I still haven't gotten that BJ and never expect I will. During Sex Therapy about 12 years ago, we discussed this very topic with the ST. What I learned is that my wife actually believed that after marriage her feelings about sex would change. She was surprised they didn't and felt very guilty about her lies to me about sex. It really helped me to understand that it was not an intentional lie, but something she honestly thought she could and would do that she couldn't just do. I forgave her sexual lies to me and don't feel she tricked me into marriage.

I can understand that OP being upset that she had done something very important to him with another man and not willing to do it with him. Still, if the big scheme of things is one particular sex act so imporant that the lack of it should destroy a marriage? I don't think so. Maybe the OP can work with his wife to find some other sex act that will please him as much and will be acceptable to her. Perhaps the heavy lifting to find such a sex act, should be placed on his wife to identify.

Good luck to the OP.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

dadstartingover said:


> Some people are just wired to be hyper-sexual during the "new relationship" phase. They uber-validate their new partner (or the person they WANT to be their new partner) in every way imaginable. Then when the comfort and familiarity set in, the desire wanes a great deal, and the other partner is left saying, "What the hell?! Where did Ms. Sexy go?!" I've spoken to men who claim to see this switch flip when they first move into together... or as soon as they say "I do".
> A lot of guys erroneously think this was some malicious and "bait and switch" act on the part of the wife when no... she just genuinely lost sexual desire the moment everything became certain and comfortable. It's a real fight and real work for her to get to that headspace again...and who the hell wants more work?!


I don't doubt what you are saying, but that definitely was not my experience with my wife. We took things pretty slow at first and added more things to our sex repertoire over time. That may be at least partly due to her being my first sexual partner and she had been in a long term relationship. She was much more experienced than I was. I think we covered just about everything that was going to be on the permanent "menu" of sex acts by the time we got married after 2+ years of dating. 

In spite of that I think the passion increased after we got married. Again, that may have been our circumstances at play. We moved away from home and we only had each other. Not much else to do other than have sex 😉 

I still can't help but think it is possible to keep the passion level high if you keep working on it. I think people, men in particular, become complacent about it and if left go too long it can be very difficult to recover.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She probably tried it with a couple guys and decided she didn't like it and wasn't bringing that into the next relationship because she didn't like it.


Then she shouldn't have lied and TOLD OP that once that were married she WAS going to participate in oral with him.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Then she shouldn't have lied and TOLD OP that once that were married she WAS going to participate in oral with him.


That's really the whole problem here. There is no rule that because you tried it before with him you must now try it with me, but if she said she would and has never even made the attempt, then she just outright lied to him. Basically telling him what she thought he wanted to hear.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I still can't help but think it is possible to keep the passion level high if you keep working on it. I think people, men in particular, become complacent about it and if left go too long it can be very difficult to recover.


Yep... I wrote a book about it! For men: *The Dead Bedroom Fix.*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Some men use porn to stay in the marriage. If you are having sex once a month, your balls start hurting after a while... did you know that?


You can masturbate without porn. Men did it throughout history.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> As I said, the intent is find relief in the activities that she doesn't want to do, through fantasy of seeing it done.
> 
> It's like taking methadone for heroin. It's not a real substitute, but it keeps you stable enough to not seek the real thing if she's not willing.


Surely you feeding specific fantasies through porn, you are just making the situation worse.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> Exactly. I'd like to do those things, but she's made it clear that she won't. I respect her enough to not do those things.
> However, I'm not going to leave them out of my fantasy life and put those desires on a shelf and forget about it.


Why not stop feeding those things that you think you can't live without? 
If my husband said he didn't want to do something, I am going to accept that and not go feeding that fantasy in other ways. I am going to focus on the things that we CAN do together.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

jjj858 said:


> I agree with this for the most part. Things definitely settled down in this regard once we moved in after about a year dating. During our weekly dates usually on the weekend sex was almost always guaranteed and she was up for anything. Once we moved in it was like I was too familiar to her and she didn’t need to expend any sort of effort anymore. My advice to guys: don’t move in together. Lol
> 
> My bigger question is why does this seem to be such a phenomenon with females mainly? It seems like loss of desire once in a stable comfortable relationship is such a common thing with them. Whereas most men still seem to maintain a higher level of sexual attraction to their SO. The posts here by men whose wives won’t sleep with them outnumber them posts from wives saying their husbands won’t sleep with them.


Human nature, my man. If you think it's bad in male-female relationships, wait until you read about "lesbian bed death"!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

dadstartingover said:


> Human nature, my man. If you think it's bad in male-female relationships, wait until you read about "lesbian bed death"!


Lesbian Bed Death. That's going to be the name of my next band prototype. It runs a close second to Infant Skull Surgery.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, I really doubt you've ever blown a guy, Oldshirt. Women try things because they know guys want them to, but in many cases, it's not anything they enjoy. It may have something to do with trauma, but in general, no. It's just that they tried it and didn't like it at all. It does nothing for them. It was unpleasant to them. So they stop doing it because they just don't want to and don't enjoy it. It's really that simple. They really don't care if the guy gets butthurt and thinks he's entitled to it only because they know she tried it before and quit. There's all degrees of acquiescence from none to high frequency just depending on each woman and just how much she dislikes it. Young women will try things because they're curious. But once they don't like it, at that point, it depends on just how bad they don't like it or mind doing it. Most I've known don't think men should ask for it but that they would rather occasionally give them a special treat but aren't about to make that particular eggamuffin their daily fare.


So is it just some women are really submissive and want to make their guys happy or are some guys just really lucky and find a woman who like doing things like that?

Just curious as it seems some couples really enjoy oral for each other? Are all those women just doing it even though they may not want to?


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## Husband3point0 (Oct 26, 2021)

I’m a bit confused about what the approach is here.

His wife isn’t here. He is. So, why is there so much speculation and interpolation about her behavior, especially since it arrives through such a biased lens? What is with all of the projecting about how everyone else’s wives may or may not be acting and then trying to apply that here? No one here can change her. So, why not just focus on what he can do? The OP swears up down and sideways that she would engage in crazy hot monkey sex with a possible AP. Rather than argue that point, why not leverage it? Let’s just assume she would. If she was insanely attracted to some guy, then she would be up for crazy hot sex. Why is that considered a problem? It sounds like it actually offers the solution.

Be her affair partner. Be more awesome. Be more attractive. After all… what do you have to lose? 

You come here looking for a bunch of random strangers to validate your porn use ex post facto already hearing your wife say it’s not ok. None of these people are married to you, so why ask them? Your wife tells you that your porn use makes her feel subconscious, because she’s unfairly being measured up to some porn actresses, which is understandable. So, take that input and stop looking for some internet strangers to validate you by overriding her input. Furthermore, you’ve already had a handful of women here tell you how it makes them feel, so you can’t even pretend that this is indigenous to your wife. Right?

In the end, you actually don’t want this to be her problem. Trust me. Trying to exogenously solve someone else’s problems not only takes forever, but it also sometimes doesn’t even work, and can be exhausting enough to be nearly soul-crushing. You’re MUCH better off blaming yourself, taking agency for the problem and then addressing it as a husband issue. Because if it actually is solely her issue, then you might be on a several decade death march. 

So, try and convince yourself that it’s your problem. You can solve your own problem. You want to blame yourself, so you can fix it unilaterally. Because if it isn’t, then trust me when I say — the alternative will make your worst nightmare look like a fairy tale. 

You want to know what attract her? Research her. Are there romance novels around your house? If so, voraciously read them all. Watch her reaction not to how men look, but how she reacts to different behaviors. She is constantly broadcasting a set of “this is what I’m attracted to” signals. Tune yourself into that station. Your new favorite channel‘s call sign is WIFE. Tomorrow’s show is called “how to get blowjobs”, so tune your ass in.

Stop being needy. You come off here as very impetuous, childish, entitled, bitter, attention seeking and passive aggressive. You know what I said about signals? Well, your wife is better than you at picking up your signals than you are at picking up hers. So, you can take it to the bank that she is tuned into your channel and has been receiving your messages intently. You have been broadcasting to her that you are completely unworthy of blowjobs. Your attitude is basically confirming her reluctance. 

And again, you have the ability to change that. If you want to be awesome, then you can choose to be. The best part is that she was attracted to you on a very deep level at some point, otherwise she wouldn’t have married you. So, leverage that. Rekindle that. Be cute. Be funny. Whatever it was. Then, on top of that add maturity, and strength, and security. Through complacency, you’ve downgraded yourself and given her a worse version of you. Upgrade yourself.


Or… grow bitter and old. In the end, it’s your life. Just don’t blame anyone else for your choices.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Whew... nice one. Heck of a first post..!



Husband3point0 said:


> You want to know what attract her? Research her. Are there romance novels around your house? If so, voraciously read them all. Watch her reaction not to how men look, but how she reacts to different behaviors. She is constantly broadcasting a set of “this is what I’m attracted to” signals. Tune yourself into that station. Your new favorite channel‘s call sign is WIFE. Tomorrow’s show is called “how to get blowjobs”, so tune your ass in.


----------



## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far is, if a woman is opposed to the idea of giving bjs, doesn't want to try, and doesn't care, her bjs are not going to feel that good. Her lack of effort and interest will simply make you more frustrated - basically starfish oral OP, not what you're seeing in porn. You're not missing much here.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Husband3point0 said:


> I’m a bit confused about what the approach is here.
> 
> His wife isn’t here. He is. So, why is there so much speculation and interpolation about her behavior, especially since it arrives through such a biased lens? What is with all of the projecting about how everyone else’s wives may or may not be acting and then trying to apply that here? No one here can change her. So, why not just focus on what he can do? The OP swears up down and sideways that she would engage in crazy hot monkey sex with a possible AP. Rather than argue that point, why not leverage it? Let’s just assume she would. If she was insanely attracted to some guy, then she would be up for crazy hot sex. Why is that considered a problem? It sounds like it actually offers the solution.
> 
> ...


No. I don’t think you read the thread, because you are straight up making stuff up in this post of yours. 

_OP and his wife haven't discussed porn_ so you have a couple paragraphs in there that are completely made up.

Also, it really is his wife's issue to deal with, with him. She told him she'd participate in oral sex if they were married. And it's something she did with other boyfriends in the past. Then she went back on that. It needs to be discussed. 

Also she receives oral from him. 

Geez.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Livvie said:


> No. I don’t think you read the thread, because you are straight up making stuff up in this post of yours.
> 
> _OP and his wife haven't discussed porn_ so you have a couple paragraphs in there that are completely made up.
> 
> ...


Admittedly I've skim-read the thread. 

Yet based on that, I think there are valid points from both you and H3P0.

Not that this opinion means squat - hasn't stopped me before from chiming in.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Miriam246 said:


> Have you tried to talk about other possibilities that can bring you more fulfillment without your wife participating? By that I mean, there are special places where man and woman can go and experience litlle bit more than just simple sex. And what she says when you tell her that simple sex is not enough for you?


So you mean he should cheat? More than he is already with the porn?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes so we have all said he could divorce since he claims to have been tricked. Or just lacking. But he refuses.
> 
> So which is better at least trying to understand his wife and become more comfortable or spank to porn behind her back (which most women figure it out anyway) and build resentment?
> 
> ...


No 4. Stop feeding the fantasy with porn, and love and appreciate the wife and what sex they have.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> *So is it just some women are really submissive and want to make their guys happy or are some guys just really lucky and find a woman who like doing things like that?*
> 
> Just curious as it seems some couples really enjoy oral for each other? Are all those women just doing it even though they may not want to?


Probably a little of each. 

I really enjoy sexually pleasuring my wife and would do just about anything she would ask me to do. My wife has lots of body self-image issues and they have grown as she has aged into her 70's. That does interfere with our sex life. 

I think some people are more adventurous and more into sex.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> OK, I identify a bit with the OP. Prior to marriage, I sat down and explained to my wife to be that oral sex was very imporant to me. She told me it was much too intimate prior to marriage, but that after marriage, her love for me would grow and she would provide me with what I needed. We talked about it. * She explained how the nuns at the schools she was educated in had explained to her that nothing a man and woman did after marriage was a problem.*
> 
> Well after we were married a while, I asked about that BJ. She told me it was a disgusting vile and humiliating sex act that she could not do. We fought over it. Later she told me that she was saving that and kinky things for later in our marriage to keep the flame of passion alive.
> 
> ...


those frigin lesbian nuns, really screwed up generations of teenagers!
they say one thing, but taught for four long years how sex is evil, and ONLY for making babies.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Husband3point0 said:


> I’m a bit confused about what the approach is here.
> 
> His wife isn’t here. He is. So, why is there so much speculation and interpolation about her behavior, especially since it arrives through such a biased lens? What is with all of the projecting about how everyone else’s wives may or may not be acting and then trying to apply that here? No one here can change her. So, why not just focus on what he can do? The OP swears up down and sideways that she would engage in crazy hot monkey sex with a possible AP. Rather than argue that point, why not leverage it? Let’s just assume she would. If she was insanely attracted to some guy, then she would be up for crazy hot sex. Why is that considered a problem? It sounds like it actually offers the solution.
> 
> Be her affair partner. Be more awesome. Be more attractive. After all… what do you have to lose?


If only it were that simple. No amount of gift giving, fancy dinners, manosphere bs, doing handstands, weightlifting, or anything else is going to make a frigid wife want their husband again. There’s been studies showing that people pretty much become immune to their SO after a period of time. They don’t generate the same chemical response in the brain that they use to when, say, first dating. I think we are fooling ourselves to not admit that attraction plateau’s in a relationship after a while, and studies show that women lose attraction and desire for their partners more than men do. It’s the same reason people become susceptible to affairs. The new person can and does generate those addictive feel good hormones that the boring ol’ SO doesn’t. We just aren’t stronger than this biology. 

I see it within my own relationship. Do I want to continue and have a good relationship and a good sexual relationship with my wife? Yes. But does she still give me butterflies like when we were dating or the first few years together? No. I assume she likely feels the same way about me and it’s likely the reason our sexual relationship has dwindled.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jjj858 said:


> If only it were that simple. No amount of gift giving, fancy dinners, manosphere bs, doing handstands, weightlifting, or anything else is going to make a frigid wife want their husband again. There’s been studies showing that people pretty much become immune to their SO after a period of time. They don’t generate the same chemical response in the brain that they use to when, say, first dating. I think we are fooling ourselves to not admit that attraction plateau’s in a relationship after a while, and studies show that women lose attraction and desire for their partners more than men do. It’s the same reason people become susceptible to affairs. The new person can and does generate those addictive feel good hormones that the boring ol’ SO doesn’t. We just aren’t stronger than this biology.
> 
> I see it within my own relationship. Do I want to continue and have a good relationship and a good sexual relationship with my wife? Yes. But does she still give me butterflies like when we were dating or the first few years together? No. I assume she likely feels the same way about me and it’s likely the reason our sexual relationship has dwindled.


I think sexual relations dwindle for lots of reasons. Kids probably being the biggest one. But that's because there is usually little time. However that time also can build resentment from men and women. This then continues when it would be natural for the man and wife to come back together. Without the connection they don't come back together. Dating and treating your spouse well allows the relationship to come back together and to go beyond.

My husband and I have more sex now than when we first started in marriage. I attribute that to the fact that we both tried to treat each other well over the years and so through lulls we didn't disconnect. In fact those times made the waves higher. While I don't have that new relationship energy I have much deeper lust. It is entirely attributable to how I think about my husband and how he treats me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think sexual relations dwindle for lots of reasons. Kids probably being the biggest one. But that's because there is usually little time. However that time also can build resentment from men and women. This then continues when it would be natural for the man and wife to come back together. Without the connection they don't come back together. Dating and treating your spouse well allows the relationship to come back together and to go beyond.
> 
> My husband and I have more sex now than when we first started in marriage. I attribute that to the fact that we both tried to treat each other well over the years and so through lulls we didn't disconnect. In fact those times made the waves higher. While I don't have that new relationship energy I have much deeper lust. It is entirely attributable to how I think about my husband and how he treats me.


I couldn't agree more. At the root the issue is time and its lack of availability. Kids require a lot of time and energy and it can be easy to neglect the marriage. Thankfully my wife and I never let our connection completely dwindle away while raising our kids. Once they were approaching college age and we were about to be empty nesters I made sure I shift the extra time I had back to my wife. She did the same in return. I feel like our attraction to each other is deeper than it ever has been.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I couldn't agree more. At the root the issue is time and its lack of availability. Kids require a lot of time and energy and it can be easy to neglect the marriage. Thankfully my wife and I never let our connection completely dwindle away while raising our kids. Once they were approaching college age and we were about to be empty nesters I made sure I shift the extra time I had back to my wife. She did the same in return. I feel like our attraction to each other is deeper than it ever has been.


Yes and while kids are a major issue in marriages. Other major events include. Parents getting sick or dying. Work load, moving, etc.

But if when these things happen you or your spouse are supportive then when the time passes the connection is deeper. Versus if you pitch a fit because your spouse didn't xyz after their parent passed or xyz when their work load was high. 

Flip side the spouse experiencing those things needs to keep things in mind as well. Like when we first married my husband got a great job at a company. He liked it but he often worked an 80 hour week. I was supportive but also let him know that I didn't like that since it was never ending not just a project that was going to be done in 6 months or a year. He took that into consideration and eventually switched jobs. 

I think it comes down to consistently putting your spouse first in your mind even when events conspire to put them behind something else for a short time.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think sexual relations dwindle for lots of reasons. Kids probably being the biggest one. But that's because there is usually little time. However that time also can build resentment from men and women. This then continues when it would be natural for the man and wife to come back together. Without the connection they don't come back together. Dating and treating your spouse well allows the relationship to come back together and to go beyond.
> 
> My husband and I have more sex now than when we first started in marriage. I attribute that to the fact that we both tried to treat each other well over the years and so through lulls we didn't disconnect. In fact those times made the waves higher. While I don't have that new relationship energy I have much deeper lust. It is entirely attributable to how I think about my husband and how he treats me.


Good post and you make some valid points. I don’t want to threadjack and get too much into my issues. But yes, having a 1.5 year old child is probably the biggest factor in our intimacy dwindling. Between work and then getting home and getting our son fed, bathed, and to sleep (he likes to stay up late too) there’s just really no time for us as a couple. There’s definitely resentment on both sides. In our downtime she just wants to stare at her phone and I’m usually just too tired to care.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jjj858 said:


> Good post and you make some valid points. I don’t want to threadjack and get too much into my issues. But yes, having a 1.5 year old child is probably the biggest factor in our intimacy dwindling. Between work and then getting home and getting our son fed, bathed, and to sleep (he likes to stay up late too) there’s just really no time for us as a couple. There’s definitely resentment on both sides. In our downtime she just wants to stare at her phone and I’m usually just too tired to care.


This will pass, if you are dedicated to understanding that it is a common issue, natural, not driven by a desire to hurt you, and transient. Giving your child the best possible start in life is worth forgoing your own satisfaction, for a time. Your job is to not let it poison your marriage unless your wife shows no interest in ever rekindling your relationship down the road - and not too far down the road - by 3 or 4, a child should not be such an enormous burden.


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## Husband3point0 (Oct 26, 2021)

jjj858 said:


> If only it were that simple. No amount of gift giving, fancy dinners, manosphere bs, doing handstands, weightlifting, or anything else is going to make a frigid wife want their husband again. There’s been studies showing that people pretty much become immune to their SO after a period of time. They don’t generate the same chemical response in the brain that they use to when, say, first dating. I think we are fooling ourselves to not admit that attraction plateau’s in a relationship after a while, and studies show that women lose attraction and desire for their partners more than men do. It’s the same reason people become susceptible to affairs. The new person can and does generate those addictive feel good hormones that the boring ol’ SO doesn’t. We just aren’t stronger than this biology.
> 
> I see it within my own relationship. Do I want to continue and have a good relationship and a good sexual relationship with my wife? Yes. But does she still give me butterflies like when we were dating or the first few years together? No. I assume she likely feels the same way about me and it’s likely the reason our sexual relationship has dwindled.


Why do you assume she’s frigid? And, why do you also assume she’s less enamored with you now than she was before? And, why do you assume you can’t attract her?

Look, you’re not a mind reader. And, to be brutally honest with you, that’s a good thing here. Let’s assume that this spectacularly tragic read is wrong, and that you have agency in your problem. That’s a key ingredient, because it means you can fix it. Again, you want the problem to be you. Because that means you have the ability to turn things around. Seriously.

If you’re waiting for her to take the yoke and arrest this nosedive, then you are in for a horrible decade of pain and loneliness. In marriage, inertia is a complete five act Shakespearean tragedy. And, you’re in like act 1 scene 2 right now.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Husband3point0 said:


> If you’re waiting for her to take the yoke and arrest this nosedive, then you are in for a horrible decade of pain and loneliness. In marriage, inertia is a complete five act Shakespearean tragedy. And, you’re in like act 1 scene 2 right now.


My kingdom for a blowjob!


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## Husband3point0 (Oct 26, 2021)

Livvie said:


> No. I don’t think you read the thread, because you are straight up making stuff up in this post of yours.
> 
> _OP and his wife haven't discussed porn_ so you have a couple paragraphs in there that are completely made up.
> 
> ...


He didn’t say that she told him there would be oral sex and then changed her mind later. You did. He was asked several direct questions and evaded nearly every one. He had plenty of chances to talk about any frank conversations they had beforehand, and evaded them. There’s more dip-and-twirl from the first 8 pages of this thread than someone running for Congress.

But, let’s not assume. Let’s give him a chance to correct me. To the OP:

_Give us a rundown of the conversations before and after you got married about oral sex. In order to be specific, avoid words like ‘generally’, ‘basically’, ‘effectively’ and any others that provide your interpretation of her meaning. Instead, give us the best recollection of the actual conversations, including everything about the context. Pretend you’re an unbiased reporter giving us the raw facts and details. Avoid any conjecture about her thoughts, feelings, motivations and/or conclusions. _

I think some of you here are going to find out that I read this thread a LOT more closely than you think…


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Humans sexually imprint, just like any other animal. Even if they have more leeway than an animal.
> Whomever you had sex with first or often will form your desires as to whom you want to sex with.
> 
> It's why women will do things with alphas that the betas complain that their wives won't do.


So you are the beta in this scenario?





Husband3point0 said:


> He didn’t say that she told him there would be oral sex and then changed her mind later. You did. He was asked several direct questions and evaded nearly every one. He had plenty of chances to talk about any frank conversations they had beforehand, and evaded them. There’s more dip-and-twirl from the first 8 pages of this thread than someone running for Congress.
> 
> But, let’s not assume. Let’s give him a chance to correct me. To the OP:
> 
> ...


Actually I think he was pretty clear...

OP said: "She lied about her willingness."
Then he was asked: "What does she say when you ask her why she said she'd be willing _then changed her mind_? "
OP's response: "She just doesn't want to."

So that mean she told him those things would be on the table after marriage, but changed her mind after the fact.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

jjj858 said:


> If only it were that simple. No amount of gift giving, fancy dinners, manosphere bs, doing handstands, weightlifting, or anything else is going to make a frigid wife want their husband again. There’s been studies showing that people pretty much become immune to their SO after a period of time. *They don’t generate the same chemical response in the brain that they use to when, say, first dating*. I think we are fooling ourselves to not admit that attraction plateau’s in a relationship after a while, and studies show that women lose attraction and desire for their partners more than men do. It’s the same reason people become susceptible to affairs. The new person can and does generate those addictive feel good hormones that the boring ol’ SO doesn’t. We just aren’t stronger than this biology.


I would postulate that this is the exact reason there is renewed interest in things like spanking fetish, bdsm, role playing, and on and on.
normal sex gets...well...mundane after 30 or so years. to spark that "NEW CAR SMELL" rush of hormones, you need to go outside of the normal box. Shock the brain into responding as if it were an all new love affair, albeit with your existing spouse! And the kinkier, and the more physically demanding the new sex is, the more it will feel "new" to your brain.

Imaging never having been bound in any way, blindfolded, wrists tied to the bedposts, ankles tied to the foot of the bed, and your husband pulling hard on your nipples as you wonder what he has in store for you next!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> I would postulate that this is the exact reason there is renewed interest in things like spanking fetish, bdsm, role playing, and on and on.
> normal sex gets...well...mundane after 30 or so years. to spark that "NEW CAR SMELL" rush of hormones, you need to go outside of the normal box. Shock the brain into responding as if it were an all new love affair, albeit with your existing spouse! And the kinkier, and the more physically demanding the new sex is, the more it will feel "new" to your brain.
> 
> Imaging never having been bound in any way, blindfolded, wrists tied to the bedposts, ankles tied to the foot of the bed, and your husband pulling hard on your nipples as you wonder what he has in store for you next!


you watch too much porn.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think sexual relations dwindle for lots of reasons. Kids probably being the biggest one. But that's because there is usually little time. However that time also can build resentment from men and women. This then continues when it would be natural for the man and wife to come back together. Without the connection they don't come back together. Dating and treating your spouse well allows the relationship to come back together and to go beyond.
> 
> My husband and I have more sex now than when we first started in marriage. I attribute that to the fact that we both tried to treat each other well over the years and so through lulls we didn't disconnect. In fact those times made the waves higher. While I don't have that new relationship energy I have much deeper lust. It is entirely attributable to how I think about my husband and how he treats me.


Even if you had kids and there's no resentment, just being that level of busy and exhausted is really all it takes to lose interest in a lot of things including sex. You put all your energy and focus into the greatest need.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> you watch too much porn.


but, its justifiable!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Even if you had kids and there's no resentment, just being that level of busy and exhausted is really all it takes to lose interest in a lot of things including sex. You put all your energy and focus into the greatest need.


I think it is important that you always set aside at least a little time for the marriage. It isn't easy, but it most definitely can and should happen in my opinion.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it is important that you always set aside at least a little time for the marriage. It isn't easy, but it most definitely can and should happen in my opinion.


My wife has been working her ass off lately and has been exhausted so I hadn’t initiated on her in 3 days.

Yesterday I asked if she wanted to go for coffee in the afternoon and pick a time if she wanted. I was really busy at work with an emergency at the time she picked (that she then showed up late for) so I told them I’d be back in 45m to work on it but I had an important appointment so I was leaving. Walked out in the middle of an emergency meeting. My phone was going off the whole time I was out, didn’t look at it.

She initiated on me yesterday night and like the Michael Schenker tune “Rock My Nights Away” was damn good.

Thing is if your relationship is important you need to place it above the stuff getting in the way of it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She probably tried it with a couple guys and decided she didn't like it and wasn't bringing that into the next relationship because she didn't like it.


BTDT I tried anal 1x because ex wanted to since i had not before. In the words of Austin Powers, "That's not my bag, Baby!" Didn't do it for me. 
My wife relented to it trying to keep her last marriage together with serial cheating ex. She did not like it and he was not kind. I would not try even to get her to if i wanted it, as i do not want to be associating those memories with me and her having sex. 

At the same time i have a memory of sex act with cheating ex that will always stand alone, wish it was gone or never happened.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She probably tried it with a couple guys and decided she didn't like it and wasn't bringing that into the next relationship because she didn't like it.


I cry foul..

She's perfectly happy to _receive_ oral, but her lips won't touch him. And she gave oral to past boyfriends. 

Foul.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it is important that you always set aside at least a little time for the marriage. It isn't easy, but it most definitely can and should happen in my opinion.


What I'm getting at is the mindset. When one thing is so overwhelming, some people do something at least similar to compartmentalization, well that's all they really have the capacity to focus on. I've certainly seen men do it throughout my life related to their employment. They set everything else aside to get through a rough patch. I think mothers are very often in that situation where they just don't have the emotional capacity for everything at once.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I cry foul..
> 
> She's perfectly happy to _receive_ oral, but her lips won't touch him. And she gave oral to past boyfriends.
> 
> Foul.


Yeah i would take oral for her off the table. If she ask he can say, "Remember...we dont do oral...it's what? Demeaning was it?"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes so we have all said he could divorce since he claims to have been tricked. Or just lacking. But he refuses.
> 
> So which is better at least trying to understand his wife and become more comfortable or spank to porn behind her back (which most women figure it out anyway) and build resentment?
> 
> ...


I have a similar outlook but it usually derails a thread when I bring it up as advice backed by experience. Many are convinced by their own experience and I guess I understand.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Unfortunately many women lie about what they are willing to do and then they withdraw affection for no reason. We did discuss our desires and we seemed compatible, but after the marriage we were suddenly not compatible.


This exactly is what my ex did. It might not be that she did that stuff before and is no longer into it. It instead could be that the OP's wife chose him for security, stability - some reason other than love.

Unfortunately, telling her how she needs to be good to her word is pointless. She was comfortable misleading him to get him to sign on with her so she's not suddenly going to provide.

Unless he's willing to accept her as she is, he needs to get out. She'll then have to decide whether he's worth keeping around.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Run and run away fast. I was married to a woman who hated sex after our wedding night. We were both virgins and had no clue about sex or what to do other than the vanilla missionary position. Apparently it hurt her or she wasn't ready. Anyway after that she hated sex. After 8 years she said no more sex and I spent the next 10 in a sexless marriage. We had been brainwashed by religious nut cases so I was under the brainwashing that we were married and stuck with each other for better or worse. I finally got sick and tired of it and divorced her at 18 years. I turned to porn (mens magazines back then) and Masturbation to survive. I wanted to cheat was again was brainwashed against it. I wish now I had divorced her at 8 years. My life would have been so much better...
Trust me you do not want to end up in a marriage that will drag you down. I ended up in a mental hospital for severe depression and that was where I finally broke through my anti-divorce brainwashing. 
So run and run far and fast and find a woman who will have sex with you with no strings attached.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> - or decide if you really want to be with someone who has wild, hot, monkey sex with other guys, but puts a bunch of rules and restrictions and hoops and hurdles on you to keep you at bay.


It goes deeper than this. You need to ask yourself if you want to be with someone who will lie about what she is willing to provide in order to win you over.

Sexual incompatibilities happen among well-intentioned people. But this is an integrity issue. I would argue that intentionally deceiving someone on this matter makes her a bad person.

So again, why would you want to be with someone who would lie to you to get her way? How would you be able to trust her? If that attraction is lacking, what happens when she's got what she wants / needs?


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> But I'm a cuckold and expected to be one.
> 
> I view marriage from the willingness of both being a servant of the other. If one is not willing to serve the other, they cannot be an equal partner.
> What you are basically saying is that marriage is for woman and the husband gets nothing out of the relationship, unless she permits it.


Welcome to Talk About Marriage... Aparently most of the suggestions you will get here are that the woman/wife can set the rules and get what she wants when she wants it, IF she wants it, and she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to and the man is stuck with his **** in his hand sitting in a corner jacking off.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> But since your title question is in regards to porn, I want to reaffirm this point from my post above - Porn is not the solution regardless of the problem. And porn is not the therapy regardless of the disease.
> 
> Now I will say that unlike a number of regular posters here on TAM, I am not an anti porn crusader and I do not think that porn is in and of itself always bad or sinful or destructive. I think porn has it's place and even be a positive force for some things under some circumstances.
> 
> ...


Porn saved me back in my first marriage when my wife said no more sex after 8 years. The next 10 was all mens magazine and masturbation. Now in my second marriage I have ED so cannot have sex and so my wife has decided that she is not interested in sex now so now I am back at porn and masturbation which I can do even if I cannot get hard. At least now I have it on computer and not in a magazine. I I want sex that is how I get it.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I will also recommend our own @DSO's Deadbedroom fix material. As it addresses much of what is being discussed here.
> 
> In it he mentions the principle of the 300lb bearded woman. In that, imagine a 300lb bearded woman was putting the moves on you and wanted to get down with you and felt that she was somehow entitled to having a sexual relationship with you. If you were somehow financially dependent on her or would at least lose your house and half your assets and would lose contact with your children if you kicked her out - how would you react and respond to her??
> 
> ...


300 pound bearded woman?? When did you meet my first wife? Well she was 400 but still close. ROFLMAO


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> As for your wife, if she did things before that left her hurt, why would you want her to do them again?.


Because - right or wrong - she agreed and then did not honor her agreement. He feels deceived.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> Actually if the man doesn't consent, then it also doesn't happen.
> 
> Think further.


Yes and even if the man consents it still might not happen. It is the woman who controls who she has sex with and what kind of sex. IF 100 guys go out looking for sex, 99% of them are going to end up going home alone and end up masturbating to porn. If 100 women go out looking for sex, you can bet almost 100% of them can have a sexual experience unless they are the 300 pound bearded woman that has been mentioned in other posts, and even then I would wager that there are guys desperate enough they would take her on. It is the woman who controls all sex.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

dadstartingover said:


> Thank you for the mention! Technically it was a 900 lb. bearded woman... but the point is the same.


OK So you did meet my ex wife...


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Oakellen said:


> Could you please explain how porn meets a husband’s emotional needs?


It doesn't meet them but if there is no actual sex then porn and masturbation are as close as it comes to meeting them. At least it is sex even if it is not great. Better than no sex.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

You can always cheat. 
Men cheat to stay in a bad marriage. Women cheat to leave one.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If a woman has done things before marriage, that she won't do with her husband, but will do them in an affair, it's not the acts themselves that she objects to. It's who she wants to do them with.
> 
> That's a point of logic.
> 
> Humans do imprint sexually.


I have been to a lot of forums about marriage and sex and almost all the women describe having done things they would not do with their husbands. Many of the husbands have complained about that on the same forums. As soon as the wife gets a lover she is doing anal and pretty much everything and comes home and rubs her husbands face in it by telling him all the things she did with the other guy and won't do with him.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> It is the woman who controls all sex.


Oh please 🙄, I’ve said no to plenty of women who’ve asked me to have sex with them.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

northernlights said:


> I bait and switched my DH. I told him I'd give him a threesome when we were dating, because he's never had group sex, but now I don't think we'll do it. It's something that can be fun if you're not serious, but wouldn't work for me in a marriage (jealousy being an issue in a committed relationship but not in a fling). So, I can understand the idea that people will do some things casually but not in an emotionally committed relationship.


So then, why did you do it? What did you hope to gain by promising something you didn't intend to do?

I think your answer would help out in giving advice to guys and gals in this situation.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm curious how you know what "many" women do.
> 
> Are you getting this from red pill?


All you have to do is go to other forums (not this one) and read some of the posts by women who have cheated. And the husbands they cheated on. The women pretty much all talk about doing all manner of things with their lovers that they would never do with their husbands ever. Many even come home and tell their husbands about it. there are a lot of husbands complaining about their wives not doing things with them that they do with their lovers.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> Oh please 🙄, I’ve said no to plenty of women who’ve asked me to have sex with them.


Really? Well good for you. I guess you have been lucky to have so much sex that you could pick and choose. For the rest of us, if a woman says she will have sex with us, unless she looks like Quasimodo's twin sister, we are on it.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Livvie said:


> See? Here is is.
> 
> OP has retroactive jealousy about specific sex acts. That's the issue here.
> 
> And still DOES NOT understand the meaning of the word cuckold.


Well in a way he is right about the Cuckold thing. His wife is controlling the sex in the marriage and how they have sex. In a cuckold marriage, the wife controls ALL sex and is the only one who is having it. I go to a website where there is a huge Cuckold group and they talk about Cuckolding. One post the wife put her husband in a chastity belt and will not even let him masturbate and the only thing she will let him do is lick the other lovers semen off her female part. So his marriage is almost a cuckold except his wife hasn't take another lover.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I think anything a spouse desires in the bedroom, that isn't harmful or degrading, really is a need because unmet desires do build-up over time.
> 
> What if your spouse refused to give you oral, because they simply didn't want to. Would you be a happy spouse?


I have always insisted my partners don't do anything they don't want to do. You don't know what's harmful or degrading to her. If she's doing something she doesn't like doing, that's harmful and degrading.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have always insisted my partners don't do anything they don't want to do. You don't know what's harmful or degrading to her. If she's doing something she doesn't like doing, that's harmful and degrading.


And her unwilling to do what I desire, that she has done with other men, is degrading to me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> And her unwilling to do what I desire, that she has done with other men, is degrading to me.


Only because you have an ego problem and think you should get your way, which is pretty immature. She didn't like doing it to other men and she wouldn't like doing it to you.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


Don't feel bad. My second wife told me a lot of her sexual past before we got married. She did all number of "ways" (3,4,5,etc) and group sex, picked up guys in bars, tons of one night stands and sex with co-workers and pretty much everything and anything. After we were married she suddenly changed and started saying she was to old for all that now. (55 now 65). I thought I had hit paydirt so to speak and then things came to a screeching halt and she only wanted vanilla sex, although she did love Anal. Unfortunately now I ended up with ED and cannot even do that anymore. So I feel your pain.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Only because you have an ego problem and think you should get your way, which is pretty immature. She didn't like doing it to other men and she wouldn't like doing it to you.


That's find, but I'm not making it an issue with you. Surely, I get points for doing that and not become resentful.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Don't feel bad. My second wife told me a lot of her sexual past before we got married. She did all number of "ways" (3,4,5,etc) and group sex, picked up guys in bars, tons of one night stands and sex with co-workers and pretty much everything and anything. After we were married she suddenly changed and started saying she was to old for all that now. (55 now 65). I thought I had hit paydirt so to speak and then things came to a screeching halt and she only wanted vanilla sex, although she did love Anal. Unfortunately now I ended up with ED and cannot even do that anymore. So I feel your pain.


I feel you on that.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> As a woman if I knew my husband was looking at porn regular I would leave. I know that isn't popular because so many think porn is ok and just something men do. I'm open to lots of things but porn isn't one of them.


If you were not giving your husband sex what would you have him do just sit there and suffer? In my first marriage after 8 years my wife said no more sex because she hated it (our sex life before that sucked because we only did it to have kids) so I spent 10 years with no sex other than mens magazines and masturbation (this was before the internet). Now I am back to porn because I have ED and my wife is not interested in sex unless it is penetration so I am back to porn and masturbation, (at least I have the internet now.) So you would leave me if we were married?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> So his marriage is almost a cuckold except his wife hasn't take another lover.


Bollocks!

*cuckold*
_a man whose wife deceives him by having a sexual relationship with another man_
*Cambridge Dictionary*

*cuckold*
_: a man whose wife has sex with someone else : a man's whose wife commits adultery : a man whose wife is unfaithful_
*Merriam-Webster*

*cuckold*
_A cuckold is a man whose wife is having an affair with another man._
*Collins*

It is utter tosh to think that a man is a cuckold or close to being one, because his wife won't give him fellatio and or anal sex.

That said I would normally say get a grip, yet I fear that might be the problem.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Bollocks!
> 
> *cuckold*
> _a man whose wife deceives him by having a sexual relationship with another man_
> ...


If she's done it with another man and she's unwilling to do things with him, it's really the same thing.

I'm using the term loosely, but it really amounts to the same thing. She's essentially telling those she did it with that there are things she will do with them that she won't do with her husband. With her lovers, she does it all. With her husband, she's got nothing.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Husband3point0 said:


> The best part is that she was attracted to you on a very deep level at some point, otherwise she wouldn’t have married you.


I agree with most of your post but this part is wrong. There are many reasons people marry - attraction and chemistry are just one.

My ex did it for security. She lied about her sex appetite because - in her words - she knew if she told the truth I would not marry her. So, I was young and naive and she took advantage. A therapist told me most people choose a partner considering a balance of how attracted they are to this person and what this person "brings to the table", so to speak. People with bad childhoods (my ex was a foster kid) look for practical benefits as a survival mechanism. Then of course, at some point the lack of attraction becomes a huge issue.

I, having a bright future, was to be the person who would provide for and build a family with her. After I was done putting up with her crap she started to put one foot out the door. When I lost my job and couldn't find another good one, she bailed and got a new guy in short order. According to my aunt (they were good friends) that second marriage was an escape also. And she wasn't into him either - even our kid saw the lack of chemistry. 

Unfortunately for my ex, it wasn't this second guy's first rodeo; they didn't last four years. Now that she can (barely) support herself she doesn't even date. She says "guys have expectations" and she doesn't do that (more accurately, she no longer does because she doesn't have to keep someone interested).

All that is to show people who claim there is a way to fix it because people don't choose partners to whom they are not attracted, are clueless. People telling the OP to clean up his act and be more tuned in to his wife don't get he simply KNOWS it won't help. Although secret porn is not a good way to handle this, that is how he chooses to get by. Yes it's dishonest, but so is she. He needs to move on and find someone who does want him - but because it's best for him, not because his wife deserves better.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> If she's done it with another man and she's unwilling to do things with him, it's really the same thing.
> 
> I'm using the term loosely, but it really amounts to the same thing. She's essentially telling those she did it with that there are things she will do with them that she won't do with her husband. With her lovers, she does it all. With her husband, she's got nothing.


I haven't followed every post but did she do oral on previous lovers and enjoy it?

She won't do it for you but gets oral from you?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I haven't followed every post but did she do oral on previous lovers and enjoy it?
> 
> She won't do it for you but gets oral from you?


It's hard to know if she enjoyed it, if she was willing.
She gets oral from me. I like to try and please her on her level


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> It's hard to know if she enjoyed it, if she was willing.
> She gets oral from me. I like to try and please her on her level


But she won't do it for you?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> But she won't do it for you?


Yes,


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> Yes,


Yeah. She's a real dinner winner.

I would not tolerate the situation. I give what I have and I require the same in return.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. She's a real dinner winner.
> 
> I would not tolerate the situation. I give what I have and I require the same in return.


That's what I should have told her from the onset, that I'm game for anything that she wants done, but I want the male equivalent.
But that's what trust in the other person can do to you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> And her unwilling to do what I desire, that she has done with other men, is degrading to me.


It would be fair for you to take umbrage with your wife promising to share something sexually with you, to then renege on that promise.

That said it is another thing entirely for you to consider it to be degrading. If your wife is unwilling to do things sexually with you that she has shared with another or others in the past, regardless of whether she enjoyed it or not.

The first instance is reasonable, the second instance on the other hand demonstrates a sense of unfounded and undeserved entitlement and a perspective that is dismissive of consent.

Make no mistake, no one is obliged to do sexual acts in any instance that they don't want to, regardless of whether they have done it before or not.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> It would be fair for you to take umbrage with your wife promising to share something sexually with you, to then renege on that promise.
> 
> That said it is another thing entirely for you to consider it to be degrading. If your wife is unwilling to do things sexually with you that she has shared with another or others in the past, regardless of whether she enjoyed it or not.
> 
> ...


I totally agree that she is not obligated to do anything that she doesn't want to do, but I'm also not obligated to remain unsatisfied on a point or two. 
So, I use porn as an outlet where she is unwilling to do an act. There is no argument from me on that point.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> If she's done it with another man and she's unwilling to do things with him, it's really the same thing.


It isn't, if your wife is not actually cheating on you sexually while she is married to you, then you aren't a cuckold.

What she did with others before you were her sexual partner, has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Given your propensity to use words so loosely, that they are effectively meaningless. I do wonder if your wife even actually told you she would give you oral sex, and instead said something completely different?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> It isn't, if your wife is not actually cheating on you sexually while she is married to you, then you aren't a cuckold.
> 
> What she did with others before you were her sexual partner, has absolutely nothing to do with you.
> 
> Given your propensity to use words so loosely, that they are effectively meaningless. I do wonder if your wife even actually told you she would give you oral sex, and instead said something completely different?


It's a loose use of the word. You're welcome to suggest a word that describes a women willing to do everything with somebody who wouldn't commit to her, but keepsing her sexual activities narrow for her husband who would die for her. I haven't found such a word, so I use that word. It's the only word I have used loosely, because it comes as close to the situation that I described that I can.

She's told me what she did at one time.

We discussed it. I had a reasonable idea what to expect upon being married.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> All you have to do is go to other forums (not this one) and read some of the posts by women who have cheated. And the husbands they cheated on. The women pretty much all talk about doing all manner of things with their lovers that they would never do with their husbands ever. Many even come home and tell their husbands about it. there are a lot of husbands complaining about their wives not doing things with them that they do with their lovers.


Hmmm...



Gomezaddams51 said:


> I go to a website where there is a huge Cuckold group and they talk about Cuckolding.


Well if you go looking for that kind of thing you can find it. Of which it seems you are looking for and wanting exactly that.

As for myself having been married twice so far and still being married, I can't imagine my wife or even my ex-wife doing anything or almost anything at all sexually that they haven't done with me.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> If you were not giving your husband sex what would you have him do just sit there and suffer? In my first marriage after 8 years my wife said no more sex because she hated it (our sex life before that sucked because we only did it to have kids) so I spent 10 years with no sex other than mens magazines and masturbation (this was before the internet). Now I am back to porn because I have ED and my wife is not interested in sex unless it is penetration so I am back to porn and masturbation, (at least I have the internet now.) So you would leave me if we were married?


Well if we as in me and you were married I would have you talk with me honestly. I would have you lead. I would have you initiate. I would have you research responsive desire. But if in the end our sex life was so bad that you would want porn then you wouldn't need to leave. I'd do it for you.

Each person is different. There are women who don't care. If you are married to one of them then porn is still damaging to many relationships but your wife wouldn't care.

I wouldn't leave over like 'catching' you (i hate that phrase) once. But if i knew that you were using porn regular I'd leave. If I found out you were doing it regular and hiding/lying about it I'd leave for whole other reasons. I dispise dishonesty including ommission.

After our daughter was born I had trouble with sex because of pain issues. My husband was more than understanding. I found him one night watching porn which is very unlike him which I knew. I looked at him and told him if he wanted a live girl I'd be in the bedroom. I knew why he was doing what he was doing and accepted my role in that. He didn't want to cause me pain. I also didn't want to cause him pain. We worked on it together. I can honestly say I don't think he's looked at porn in the last 20 years.

But what I find doesn't really matter, you aren't married to me. I find marriage is way more than one issue. It always is. Some are deal breakers some aren't and that varies per person. I'd never leave my husband over sex. But the disrespect that regular porn use is to me, yes I would leave. I see on this board all the time. I've had this argument many times and then people always jump in a basically blame only one person. Usually the person who isn't having as much sex as the other wants. There is never any discussion about anything else. As if life is one dimensional. So if it is one dimensional then porn is a deal breaker for me.

I could never have sex with my husband again and I'd be ok. If I were your wife, I'd be hurt you wanted to pimp me out. I'd be ok that your penis doesn't work anymore.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

dadstartingover said:


> Yep... I wrote a book about it! For men: *The Dead Bedroom Fix.*


Do you have one for women? I wish my wife would read self help book like that but she is legally blind and cannot read. She can see a little but I am her eyes.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> That's find, but I'm not making it an issue with you. Surely, I get points for doing that and not become resentful.


Except you are resentful and then using porn. Does she know you use porn? Would this cause resentment for her?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> You're welcome to suggest a word that describes a women willing to do everything with somebody who wouldn't commit to her, but keepsing her sexual activities narrow for her husband who would die for her.


How about a few words: "she just isn't into you that way".


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> I would postulate that this is the exact reason there is renewed interest in things like spanking fetish, bdsm, role playing, and on and on.
> normal sex gets...well...mundane after 30 or so years. to spark that "NEW CAR SMELL" rush of hormones, you need to go outside of the normal box. Shock the brain into responding as if it were an all new love affair, albeit with your existing spouse! And the kinkier, and the more physically demanding the new sex is, the more it will feel "new" to your brain.
> 
> Imaging never having been bound in any way, blindfolded, wrists tied to the bedposts, ankles tied to the foot of the bed, and your husband pulling hard on your nipples as you wonder what he has in store for you next!


I wish mine would. She refuses to have anything to do with bondage even the boring barely there stuff. She comes up with the excuse, "But what if you die and I end up tied to the bed forever." Now that is ******** but what can I do...
All this talk about BJ's is funny. I am not a fan of them and I would rather give oral that get it. Unfortunately it does little for my wife. The only way she can orgasm is if she does it herself or watches videos of animals ****ing..Even her breasts do not excite her. She calls them her useless blobs of fat.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Except you are resentful and then using porn. Does she know you use porn? Would this cause resentment for her?


I accept the situation as is and live with it. 
Remaining unsatisfied would eventually become resentment, but I'm not resentful. I just found my own solution to a problem.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> How about a few words: "she just isn't into you that way".


No kidding, which underscores my point.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I accept the situation as is and live with it.
> Remaining unsatisfied would eventually become resentment, but I'm not resentful. I just found my own solution to a problem.


And does she know you use porn?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And does she know you use porn?


I would not tell her that. Do you tell your husband if you've masturbated to your fantasies?

The choice is to use it, to find a relief on one point, or not use it and eventually become very pained in the heart.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I would not tell her that.
> 
> The choice is to use it, to find a relief on one point, or not use it and eventually become very pained in the heart.


So you know she would object but instead you lie to her. And you think this is an acceptable solution. You are stealing her agency. She can't choose if she wants to be married to a porn user. I know I would choose not to be. You are also making it where she can't choose to try a few things. 

You see when I found my husband I was surprised. He hadn't initiated in a little bit, I didn't know that he wanted sex. I mean somewhere maybe you can say I had to know but it wasn't on my mind with a new baby that was on a billy light and with other things like exhaustion. But when I saw then I decided to do something about it. I had sex for a year in pain. Because I knew it was important to him. 

I'm not saying your wife will change her mind and at least try oral. But you aren't letting her know your heart. You are hiding from her which is what erodes the foundation of a marriage. Hidden desires, dreams, LIES and such.

You think you are doing her a favor but you are just being selfish. You aren't doing **** for her. It is just for you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> No kidding, which underscores my point.


Well I've never been in any ongoing sexual relationship without a rich smorgasbord of shared sexual delights, then again I've never settled for less.

At the end of the day you get what you settle for.

If you don't like it, make different choices.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I would not tell her that. Do you tell your husband if you've masturbated to your fantasies?
> 
> The choice is to use it, to find a relief on one point, or not use it and eventually become very pained in the heart.


That whole passivity and cowardice schtick, does you no favours.

If you want a better sex life, then you would do well to own your sexuality without fear or apology.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I would not tell her that. Do you tell your husband if you've masturbated to your fantasies?
> 
> The choice is to use it, to find a relief on one point, or not use it and eventually become very pained in the heart.


Oh and to answer your question. I don't masturbate. When I want sex I find my husband and have my way with him.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> Bollocks!
> 
> *cuckold*
> _a man whose wife deceives him by having a sexual relationship with another man_
> ...


Trust me I have read a lot of Cuckold posts. The definition has changed a lot from those milk toast definitions. In the Cuckold forums, the women say if and when the mate can have sex, while she is having sex with any guy she wants. She can make her mate watch and even stick the other guys male appendage inside her if she wants him to do it. She rules the roost when it comes to sex and she is the one who normally has it with the mates knowledge either separate or in their own bedroom with him watching or she sends him somewhere and then when he comes home he gets the privilege of cleaning her female parts of the other guy's semen. She MIGHT let him have sex with her but in most cases doesn't. In many cases she makes him masturbate while watching her lover(s) have sex with her. In many cases she won't even let him do that, he just has to sit and watch and cannot do anything. AND in most cases the wife (and many times her lover) tell the mate that he is inadequate, a loser, has a little male sex organ and other humiliation. The more humiliated he is the better the wife likes it. In most cases the mate cannot have sex with anyone else male or female although sometimes the wife makes the mate do oral on the lover. That is what the Cuckold is now.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> So you know she would object but instead you lie to her. And you think this is an acceptable solution. You are stealing her agency. She can't choose if she wants to be married to a porn user. I know I would choose not to be. You are also making it where she can't choose to try a few things.
> 
> You see when I found my husband I was surprised. He hadn't initiated in a little bit, I didn't know that he wanted sex. I mean somewhere maybe you can say I had to know but it wasn't on my mind with a new baby that was on a billy light and with other things like exhaustion. But when I saw then I decided to do something about it. I had sex for a year in pain. Because I knew it was important to him.
> 
> ...


What I do with my body has nothing to do with her agency. She said no and I respect that. 
She can't choose to be married to a porn user, but she can be married to somebody she does not wish to fully satisfy.
Where is my agency to find sexual fulfillment in marriage, as complete as one can have?

I understand what you're, but it's not a big lie imo. It's not progressing and I'm not seeking satisfaction outside marriage as some here have done.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Well I've never been in any ongoing sexual relationship without a rich smorgasbord of shared sexual delights, then again I've never settled for less.
> 
> At the end of the day you get what you settle for.
> 
> If you don't like it, make different choices.


Not everybody has your options in life when it comes to relationships. You can't really criticize somebody who isn't as blessed as you present yourself to be.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> That whole passivity and cowardice schtick, does you no favours.
> 
> If you want a better sex life, then you would do well to own your sexuality without fear or apology.


I have taken ownership of my sexuality and made choices. 

I'm good.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> What I do with my body has nothing to do with her agency. She said no and I respect that.
> She can't choose to be married to a porn user, but she can be married to somebody she does not wish to fully satisfy.
> Where is my agency to find sexual fulfillment in marriage, as complete as one can have?
> 
> I understand what you're, but it's not a big lie imo. It's not progressing and I'm not seeking satisfaction outside marriage as some here have done.


You have agency. You can choose not to be married to this woman who doesn't satisfy you.

You could choose to be honest with her. You could discuss the porn. Maybe she would choose to be married to you knowing you use porn. Your arguments are so rock solid simply tell her the same thing. She lied she won't do oral on you and you want to spank to porn to fullfil those fantasies.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I just found my own solution to a problem.


Would you care to share your solution? I'd really like to know what it is.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> That is what the Cuckold is now.


For brevity I didn't quote all of your post.

That said if his wife isn't cheating on him, she isn't cuckolding him.

On the other hand you seem extraordinarily hung up on this cuckold stuff, perhaps a bit too much. So for your sake, I encourage you to get some sort of salve or treatment for that.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> You have agency. You can choose not to be married to this woman who doesn't satisfy you.
> 
> You could choose to be honest with her. You could discuss the porn. Maybe she would choose to be married to you knowing you use porn. Your arguments are so rock solid simply tell her the same thing. She lied she won't do oral on you and you want to spank to porn to fullfil those fantasies.


This will have to be one secret from the wife that I won't reveal.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> This will have to be one secret from the wife that I won't reveal.


So you go around this forum talking about what a good husband would do. You honestly believe a good husband lies to his wife about something he is sure she would get mad about.

Wow. 

This reminds me of ASD. You aren't on the spectrum are you?


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't go looking for it. But on some of the websites I go to the situation pops up quite often. A lot of time it is men asking how they can find a guy to satisfy their wife since they can't because of size or they are lousy lovers. One website in particular has a lot of different groups from church groups to porn groups with naked women and men. If you go to the settings and choose adult questions you get it all. If you don't choose the adult setting you end up with a ton of teens asking if "I am 14 can I have sex with my boyfriend who is 16" or "I am 12 can I date a 14 year old" "My mother is mad at me what can I do" kind of crap questions.
So since I choose to read and answer adult questions I get a lot of the Cuckold questions and answers. There are also a lot of wives/girlfriends who cheat who post questions and answers and husbands/boyfriends who complain about their wives/girlfriends cheating.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I have taken ownership of my sexuality and made choices.


Hiding the fact you view pornography is very far from doing that.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> This will have to be one secret from the wife that I won't reveal.


And you wonder why, you don't have a terrific sex life.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Not everybody has your options in life when it comes to relationships.


Oh, please ... even the future King of England had choices when his marriage collapsed - and he was responsible for the monarchy.

Y'know, here's my beef with people like you who post here to give advice. You are vague about your circumstances. Perhaps more details - and I don't mean the salacious ones - would help other people who are navigating similar problems. Instead, what I frequently see here are people who are less than satisfied with their marriages who start all sorts of circuitous threads along the lines of, "Do women refuse sex because of their past trauma?" or "Why do some men have less satisfactory sex lives?" 

The thing is, if you have viable solutions to YOUR problems, perhaps YOUR solutions would help others. I fail to understand all this vague stuff. It's called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE, not I'LL GIVE LOADS OF ADVICE WITHOUT BEING HONEST ABOUT MY OWN MARRIAGE.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Would you care to share your solution? I'd really like to know what it is.


I use porn for the specific acts that I wish to be done, without making the wife feel terrible about her unwillingness to do those acts.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Prodigal said:


> Oh, please ... even the future King of England had choices when his marriage collapsed - and he was responsible for the monarchy.
> 
> Y'know, here's my beef with people like you who post here to give advice. You are vague about your circumstances. Perhaps more details - and I don't mean the salacious ones - would help other people who are navigating similar problems. Instead, what I frequently see here are people who are less than satisfied with their marriages who start all sorts of circuitous threads along the lines of, "Do women refuse sex because of their past trauma?" or "Why do some men have less satisfactory sex lives?"
> 
> The thing is, if you have viable solutions to YOUR problems, perhaps YOUR solutions would help others. I fail to understand all this vague stuff. It's called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE, not I'LL GIVE LOADS OF ADVICE WITHOUT BEING HONEST ABOUT MY OWN MARRIAGE.


Yea his solution isn't a secret. It's lie to his wife about porn use. Be resentful about lack of oral sex but spank to make it better.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well if we as in me and you were married I would have you talk with me honestly. I would have you lead. I would have you initiate. I would have you research responsive desire. But if in the end our sex life was so bad that you would want porn then you wouldn't need to leave. I'd do it for you....
> 
> ...I could never have sex with my husband again and I'd be ok. If I were your wife, I'd be hurt you wanted to pimp me out. I'd be ok that your penis doesn't work anymore.


My wife knows I watch porn to get off and is fine with it. She occasionally watches over my shoulder and laughs at it and makes comments on the men and women doing it and then wanders off to her own little world.

Well I turned to porn only because of no sex period. If my first wife had not said no to all sex I would have probably stayed married to her even though seeing her at almost 500 pounds revolted me. I would just have to close my eyes and go for it and fantasize she was Stevie Nicks LOL Or as my dad told me, "Roll her in flour and have sex with the wet spot."

Now since I have ED I turned to porn because my present wife is not interested in sex at all since I cannot penetrate her. So you would be OK with never having sex again? Ever? That is basically where my wife is now. I can get a partial erection and can masturbate but she refuses to do anything with it a majority of the time. She did give me a handjob a few months ago, I am still trying to figure out why or what I did to get her interested because I would love to do it again. I can't remember the last time I saw her naked for more than a few seconds when she runs from the shower to the bedroom and closes the door.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> I wish mine would. She refuses to have anything to do with bondage even the boring barely there stuff. She comes up with the excuse,* "But what if you die and I end up tied to the bed forever.*" Now that is ****** but what can I do...
> All this talk about BJ's is funny. I am not a fan of them and I would rather give oral that get it. Unfortunately it does little for my wife. The only way she can orgasm is if she does it herself or watches videos of animals ****ing..Even her breasts do not excite her. She calls them her useless blobs of fat.


technically, they DO have methods for that fear. people into self bondage use them.
one is a lock with a timer, where it pops open on its own after a preset time. another is a lock with two pieces that you immerse in water, and freeze. eventually the ice melts and the lock opens.

here you go:








Amazon.com: Master Series The Ice Warden Self-Bondage Time Lock : Health & Household


Buy Master Series The Ice Warden Self-Bondage Time Lock on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders



www.amazon.com






but how about some kinky sex that does not involve her being tied up. how about her tying you up. or all sorts of other things....


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> For brevity I didn't quote all of your post.
> 
> That said if his wife isn't cheating on him, she isn't cuckolding him.
> 
> On the other hand you seem extraordinarily hung up on this cuckold stuff, perhaps a bit too much. So for your sake, I encourage you to get some sort of salve or treatment for that.


No it was brought up so I answered it. Her not cheating is the only part that is missing from being a cuckold. He pretty much fits the rest of the definition. And to let you know I am totally against cuckolding and I let everyone on that website know it. If the wife can cheat then the mate should be able to also otherwise there should be no cheating at all.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> technically, they DO have methods for that fear. people into self bondage use them.
> one is a lock with a timer, where it pops open on its own after a preset time. another is a lock with two pieces that you immerse in water, and freeze. eventually the ice melts and the lock opens.
> 
> but how about some kinky sex that does not involve her being tied up. how about her tying you up. or all sorts of other things....


Yeah I tried to convince her that the chances of me dying are slim to none. I think she is just using it as a way of saying "not just no but HELL NO!" She won't even tie me up. She has gone pretty much Nun on me. "Don't want nun, Don't need Nun and you ain't gonna get Nun." She is happy being room mates. She does know that I watch porn and is happy with it as long as I leave her alone.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Well I turned to porn only because of no sex period. If my first wife had not said no to all sex I would have probably stayed married to her even though seeing her at almost 500 pounds revolted me. I would just have to close my eyes and go for it and fantasize she was Stevie Nicks LOL Or as my dad told me, "Roll her in flour and have sex with the wet spot."
> 
> Now since I have ED I turned to porn because my present wife is not interested in sex at all since I cannot penetrate her. So you would be OK with never having sex again? Ever? That is basically where my wife is now. I can get a partial erection and can masturbate but she refuses to do anything with it a majority of the time. She did give me a handjob a few months ago, I am still trying to figure out why or what I did to get her interested because I would love to do it again. I can't remember the last time I saw her naked for more than a few seconds when she runs from the shower to the bedroom and closes the door.


Yes I would be ok with never having sex again ever. Period full stop.

However I wouldn't have to worry my hubby would service me other ways. But if he didn't I'd be fine.

I understand about your first marriage and porn. That doesn't mean I think it's ok. If you two talked and she was ok with the porn then fine (for you two). If she wasn't then you could divorce her which you did. Wouldn't you have wished to have done that sooner.? How long did you hold out because you were using porn to avoid the sexless issue. You are mad that you have no sex now think how much sooner you could have been having sex with a working penis if you hadn't used porn and instead confronted the problem and divorced earlier?

My point is porn is a deal breaker for me. But if a man is going to use porn he shouldn't lie or hide such use. It's dishonest an even bigger deal breaker for me. I feel if you aren't honest with your spouse then who are you married to? How can they meet your needs or care or know what's going on if you pick and choose what you let them know about yourself.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I would be ok with never having sex again ever. Period full stop.
> 
> However I wouldn't have to worry my hubby would service me other ways. But if he didn't I'd be fine.
> 
> ...


My first marriage we were both brain washed by religious nut cases (I won't say the church but they are very anti-premarital sex and divorce at any time especially back in the 60's thru 80's). So divorce was not an option for me. So I spent 10 long sexless years hating her and hating my marriage but felt I was married to her so I was stuck with both. I didn't come to a decision until I went into a major depression and ended up in a Psyche ward where I was basically deprogrammed and that is when I divorced her as soon as I got out. She didn't want the divorce, she was happy being married with no sex. I didn't give her a choice I just served her with the papers and said "Sign the damn things". 

Since my ED my present wife knows I watch porn. She comes in and sees me watching it and even watches it over my shoulder and laughs at it and makes comments about the men and women doing it. Then she turns and walks out and goes back to her own little world. We are just roommates.

She won't let me please her or service her in any other way. I have tried to get her to watch videos on intimacy with ED and sex with ED by sending videos to her by email but she just files them away and ignores them. I have tried all the touching her and hugging her and telling her she is beautiful and every other thing I can think of to seduce her and it doesn't work. I did sit her down and talk to her and got her to admit that nothing I do "turns her on". The only thing that turns her on is watching animals have sex. That turns her on and she admitted that when we were having sex she would watch videos of that before we had sex.

If I cannot penetrate her she is not interested.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> My first marriage we were both brain washed by religious nut cases (I won't say the church but they are very anti-premarital sex and divorce at any time especially back in the 60's thru 80's). So divorce was not an option for me. So I spent 10 long sexless years hating her and hating my marriage but felt I was married to her so I was stuck with both. I didn't come to a decision until I went into a major depression and ended up in a Psyche ward where I was basically deprogrammed and that is when I divorced her as soon as I got out. She didn't want the divorce, she was happy being married with no sex. I didn't give her a choice I just served her with the papers and said "Sign the damn things".
> 
> Since my ED my present wife knows I watch porn. She comes in and sees me watching it and even watches it over my shoulder and laughs at it and makes comments about the men and women doing it. Then she turns and walks out and goes back to her own little world. We are just roommates.
> 
> She won't let me please her in any other way. I have tried to get her to watch videos on intimacy with ED and sex with ED by sending videos to her by email but she just files them away and ignores them. If I cannot penetrate her she is not interested.


Yep I read your thread.
Notice you don't keep it from your wife. You don't lie to her.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep I read your thread.
> Notice you don't keep it from your wife. You don't lie to her.


No she knows I watch it. I think she is fine because if I am masturbating to porn I am not bothering her for sex.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> I use porn for the specific acts that I wish to be done, without making the wife feel terrible about her unwillingness to do those acts.


YeT surely you must realise that you are feeding these things by watching porn, rather than focusing on what you can do with her and enjoying that?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> YeT surely you must realise that you are feeding these things by watching porn, rather than focusing on what you can do with her and enjoying that?


I enjoy my company with her. Because I keep it very compartmentalized, I don't deny her anything.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Her not cheating is the only part that is missing from being a cuckold. He pretty much fits the rest of the definition.


How so? I mean, could you expand on why he pretty much fits the definition of a cuckold I'd really like to hear what you have to say.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I enjoy my company with her.


Whatever THAT means. You beat off to porn because she doesn't meet your sexual needs, but you enjoy her "company." Sounds like a match made in heaven. LOL!!!!


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Whatever THAT means. You beat off to porn because she doesn't meet your sexual needs, but you enjoy her "company." Sounds like a match made in heaven. LOL!!!!


Except for those couple of minutes, a couple times a week. she has my full attention.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Except for those *couple of minutes*,


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make fun of you, but I didn't realize you suffered from premature ejaculation. Do you and your wife play video games together or watch your fav programs on the tube? Just wondering how you two enjoy one another's company .... other than those "couple of minutes."


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## Bildoo (Sep 16, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she finds those sex acts unappealing, then they are gross and humiliating and violating to her. If you hadn't been watching porn to begin with, you wouldn't be wanting to do all that stuff. She has every right to say no to anything she doesn't want to do. Sounds like she's been honest about it so if it's not something you can live with, admit you made a mistake and go find a different kind of woman. You'd probably both be happier. Go find yourself a woman who will watch porn with you and doesn't have any limits.


He said nothing about borrowing ideas from porn to try with his wife.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> I use porn for the specific acts that I wish to be done, without making the wife feel terrible about her unwillingness to do those acts.


How is porn getting you those blowjobs you so crave? That, I just don’t get. Also, your porn usage is most likely not a secret. Most women know (or should know) that their husbands are viewing porn. I just don’t see how watching porn for the rest of your life is a viable solution. It wouldn’t be for me. 
I guarantee that if you two separated, she be blowing the first guy she started dating. She doesn’t blow you because she doesn’t have to.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

@RebuildingMe - I don't always agree with you, but in this case you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Prodigal said:


> @RebuildingMe - I don't always agree with you, but in this case you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you!


Except she didn't blow him while dating so no she probably wouldn't blow the next guy either.

Well you know unless he came with more game and she decided to try it.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make fun of you, but I didn't realize you suffered from premature ejaculation. Do you and your wife play video games together or watch your fav programs on the tube? Just wondering how you two enjoy one another's company .... other than those "couple of minutes."


 I haven't seen tv for about 17 years. She might watch a few minutes, but it's not a lot of time. 

I always tell her that she's beautiful, because she is. 
I cook a few meals every week.
We talk every afternoon, after I wake up from working. 
When I come home from work, I usually immediately go to bed and she comes to lie with me until I fall asleep. 
If I am in her presence, I always reach out to her, even if its just to give her a hug or hold her hands.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> And to let you know I am totally against cuckolding and I let everyone on that website know it.


Yet you have started a discussion, explicitly stating that you want your wife to have sex with other men in lieu of sharing sex with you.

Colour me confused!!!!!


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Except she didn't blow him while dating so no she probably wouldn't blow the next guy either.
> 
> Well you know unless he came with more game and she decided to try it.


Because most likely for the next dude, she’s going to have to work harder. Bring her “A game”. Few men are going to be foolish enough to fall for “marry me and I will show you sex like you’ve never seen”.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Personal said:


> Yet you have started a discussion, explicitly stating that you want your wife to have sex with other men in lieu of sharing sex with you.
> 
> Colour me confused!!!!!


Yes and I am still against it but since I have ED I say that is the only way I would ever agree with her having an outside lover. I let them know that in the other forums. And I still am not for Cuckolding. She could have all the sex she wanted elsewhere if she wants it. I just do not want to hear the details or watch it. And no I am not going to have sloppy seconds (even if I could) or lick her clean.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Few men are going to be foolish enough to fall for “marry me and I will show you sex like you’ve never seen”.


Yep!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> If I am in her presence, I always reach out to her, even if its just to give her a hug or hold her hands.


Yeah, 'cause that's about all you're gonna get from her. Sorry, dude, but you are full of crap. But keep posting away. People won't take you seriously, but that's okay. This is an open forum that welcomes all viewpoints. Even those of the delusional. As long as that doesn't bother you, it's all good.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Yeah, 'cause that's about all you're gonna get from her. Sorry, dude, but you are full of crap. But keep posting away. People won't take you seriously, but that's okay. This is an open forum that welcomes all viewpoints. Even those of the delusional. As long as that doesn't bother you, it's all good.


I don't expect to be taken seriously here.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I don't expect to be taken seriously here.


Then you won't be disappointed that you're not.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Then you won't be disappointed that you're not.


I'm not disappointed, so far.


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> I don't expect to be taken seriously here.


Because you have set the tone for your dead bedroom marriage. You have allowed this to go on for years. Instead of taking a stance, you wait for her to go to bed and jackoff to porn. It’s a beta move. There are plenty of people that have moved on from this situation (yours truly). There are others that fool themselves into thinking they’ve improved the sex by doing dishes and folding laundry. What category do you fall into?

I suggest you read “The Unplugged Alpha” by Richard Cooper.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I'm not disappointed, so far.


Delusional betas rarely are ... disappointed, that is. But continue to wack off while dispensing pellets of wisdom from your Pez dispenser.


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## Goobertron (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah I think you might benefit from something like couples tantric meditation. Try to see it from her side. She doesn't like the way it makes her feel right now but maybe over time and with practise in the smaller things it may spark an interest. Men and women have very different levels of drive especially in a committed relationship. "Choreplay" may get you somewhere. You should only delicately raise it as an issue because these things can affect self-esteem. Women like different things to men, like the sensation of being held, where as sometimes dudes are influenced by porn in a negative way like they want to hammer a nail or dominate etc. and that can be degrading in a long term relationship, however, it might have been okay in an experimental once-off long ago.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, I think I know your problem... your wife has found out you read the Daily Mail!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> I'm using the term loosely, but it really amounts to the same thing. She's essentially telling those she did it with that there are things she will do with them that she won't do with her husband. With her lovers, she does it all. With her husband, she's got nothing.


Relax. Her previous lovers don't know you from a hot rock. No one is snickering that they got something you're not getting.



jonty30 said:


> She's told me what she did at one time.
> 
> We discussed it. *I had a reasonable idea what to expect upon being married.
> *




Unless she specifically told you that she will perform fellatio on you after marriage, then you merely assumed she would from her past actions.

So, please answer A or B:
A. She actually promised to perform fellatio
B. You assumed she would perform fellatio


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> So, please answer A or B:
> A. She actually promised to perform fellatio
> B. You assumed she would perform fellatio


A little bit of both. I think one can assume that, if a spouse talks about blowing old boyfriends, that she might be willing to blow you.

I didn't realize that I would need a swearing in front of witnesses, with a lawyer's agreement, of what she would be willing to do.
Did you sign a legal document with your spouse as to what was expected and what your response would be if they failed to comply?


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, she made a little bit of a promise? You have led members to believe that she has gone back on her word and it seems she never gave you her word.

You are getting exactly what she is willing to give to date. Either tell her that the sexual menu will need to be expanded or you will get a divorce. 

And, stop with the word play - it just wastes members' time.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> So, she made a little bit of a promise? You have led members to believe that she has gone back on her word and it seems she never gave you her word.
> 
> You are getting exactly what she is willing to give to date. Either tell her that the sexual menu will need to be expanded or you will get a divorce.
> 
> And, stop with the word play - it just wastes members' time.


Or I could do something that I did not agree to not do, compensate with porn for the acts that she won't do.
There is not word play. I've been honest about the whole thing.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Or I could do something that I did not agree to not do, compensate with porn for the acts that she won't do.
> There is not word play. I've been honest about the whole thing.


I get it now... you thought she would be open to fellatio because of her comments and when she turned you down, you got upset because you were expecting it. Fair enough. But you told your wife you wouldn't use porn?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I get it now... you thought she would be open to fellatio because of her comments and when she turned you down, you got upset because you were expecting it. Fair enough. But you told your wife you wouldn't use porn?


I never told her how I would handle sexual frustration, if she wasn't a fully willing partner. 
I'm not too upset about it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> I never told her how I would handle sexual frustration, if she wasn't a fully willing partner.
> I'm not too upset about it.


I don't really see the problem. Use porn, as long as you don't compromise your marriage because of it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I don't really see the problem. Use porn, as long as you don't compromise your marriage because of it.


I won't be compromising my marriage, to be sure. I've kept my interest to very specific acts and I've not allowed them to progress any further than that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Because most likely for the next dude, she’s going to have to work harder. Bring her “A game”. Few men are going to be foolish enough to fall for “marry me and I will show you sex like you’ve never seen”.


She blew her previous boyfriends.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> Or I could do something that I did not agree to not do, compensate with porn for the acts that she won't do.
> There is not word play. I've been honest about the whole thing.


Honest except with your wife you mean.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Livvie said:


> She blew her previous boyfriends.


And if need be, she would her next.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Honest except with your wife you mean.


It's never been brought up.


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## Landofblue (May 28, 2019)

Hi there Jonty. I get it. I would probably feel the same as you. 

And if your wife is being genuine and you are conveying her feelings accurately to us, then I can understand her feelings as well.

Although I have to admit, I haven’t heard from you exactly what she says when you discuss this. Maybe I missed it in the 20 pages here so if that’s the case, I apologize.

But what would happen if you asked to sit down and discuss this in a loving way. Telling her you love Her. Telling her you are NOT those other men from her past. Telling her that you have no intention to be anything but loving and gentle with her. And telling her there are experiences you would like to share with her, both giving and receiving, that express your intimacy and feelings for each other.

Would she be willing to have such a discussion?

if that is difficult for her, would she be willing to start working with you and a sex therapist?

I think it’s important to be loving and gentle when you have such a discussion. But you can also state that you love her, ARE IN LOVE WITH HER, and because of that you want to become more intimate with her.

This may also be an opportunity to let her decide if she wants to be honest with you. Perhaps she’s not attracted to you. Perhaps intimacy with you is not something she desires. She shouldn’t have to make love and have heightened physical interaction with someone she doesn’t want to. But she should have to say it to you as that person.

You can tell her you want both her and you to be happy. and if having more than vanilla sex with you is not something she can provide, then you do have to make the choices that are in front of you, supplement with porn, or decide to detach and end the marriage.

If it were me, I might make the same choice you are leaning to, but I also might make it clear that if she won’t work on this with you, as her partner she vowed to love honor cherish and protect, that you will find alternatives like porn to provide what you find missing from your life.

That your preference is to share those things with her, but if she just cannot bring herself to be a part of that aspect of your life, that you will be finding a way to ensure your happiness in this area.

I can understand how tough this is. It can begin to consume your thoughts.

try not to bring up her past. It’s irrelevant for the discussion. Focus on intimacy between the two of you. I really hope she can agree to work with a sex therapist. I think it could be beneficial to both of you.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Just skimming through some posts here... but I would say your overall tone is one I see quite a bit from guys I chat with. Those guys, surprisingly, also admit to being on the spectrum. Is that something you have looked into?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I totally agree that she is not obligated to do anything that she doesn't want to do, but I'm also not obligated to remain unsatisfied on a point or two.
> So, I use porn as an outlet where she is unwilling to do an act. There is no argument from me on that point.


Does porn really replace oral and anal sex for you? To me that doesn't seem like it would be very satisfying.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So what's the point here, Jonty? To win an argument?

You and I both know that you do not need the permission of the forum to run you marriage as you see fit. You've seen people here who agree with you, and plenty who don't. What is left to be said on this thread that isn't just trying to coerce someone who will never agree into your way of thinking?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> After our daughter was born I had trouble with sex because of pain issues. My husband was more than understanding. I found him one night watching porn which is very unlike him which I knew. I looked at him and told him if he wanted a live girl I'd be in the bedroom. I knew why he was doing what he was doing and accepted my role in that. He didn't want to cause me pain. I also didn't want to cause him pain. We worked on it together. I can honestly say I don't think he's looked at porn in the last 20 years.


This is awesome. If more couples treated each other like in this story I think there would be a whole lot less divorce, cheating and people complaining about no intimacy in their marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I would not tell her that. Do you tell your husband if you've masturbated to your fantasies?
> 
> The choice is to use it, to find a relief on one point, or not use it and eventually become very pained in the heart.


I don't have an issue with porn, but if you are hiding it from your spouse, that is an issue.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Trust me I have read a lot of Cuckold posts. The definition has changed a lot from those milk toast definitions. In the Cuckold forums, the women say if and when the mate can have sex, while she is having sex with any guy she wants. She can make her mate watch and even stick the other guys male appendage inside her if she wants him to do it. She rules the roost when it comes to sex and she is the one who normally has it with the mates knowledge either separate or in their own bedroom with him watching or she sends him somewhere and then when he comes home he gets the privilege of cleaning her female parts of the other guy's semen. She MIGHT let him have sex with her but in most cases doesn't. In many cases she makes him masturbate while watching her lover(s) have sex with her. In many cases she won't even let him do that, he just has to sit and watch and cannot do anything. AND in most cases the wife (and many times her lover) tell the mate that he is inadequate, a loser, has a little male sex organ and other humiliation. The more humiliated he is the better the wife likes it. In most cases the mate cannot have sex with anyone else male or female although sometimes the wife makes the mate do oral on the lover. That is what the Cuckold is now.


You are WAY too into this cuckold fetish and you've been using way too much porn. Have you ever considered that some of our ED could be related to porn use? When porn is used too much you start to desensitize your brain and it becomes harder to get stimulated. That's when you start escalating your porn use to more and more hard core to get the same thrill. Eventually the ordinary stuff, including your wife, just doesn't do it for you anymore.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

The thing is, if she told you she blew people before you (hard to tell from your writing style) then why not now?

Is she deliberately trying to piss you off?

Did you ask her why not? If so what was her reason?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I won't be compromising my marriage, to be sure. I've kept my interest to very specific acts and I've not allowed them to progress any further than that.


Then why aren't you able to be honest with your wife? Why can't you tell that since she won't give you oral sex, but you are really into it, you occasionally masturbate to that kind of porn? That would do two things in my mind. You would stop lying to your wife and she would know this is something important to you. If she objects to the porn use then you have an opportunity to open the discussion about her giving you what you need.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> A little bit of both. I think one can assume that, if a spouse talks about blowing old boyfriends, that she might be willing to blow you.


So she didn't tell you she would do fellatio for you at all, so all of this cuckolding rubbish and all the rest of your carry on about her not living up to her promise is just ridiculous nonsense that you've simply made up in your head.

Unless she actually does, or unless you actually ask her to, it is incredibly foolish to presume any such thing.


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## mrcool46 (Sep 22, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


Absolutely - As a couple gets older they stop doing some of the things they did when they were young. Pornography is a great way to look at all types of sexual activity and get a release. I've been watching porn for 40 years and have been married 51 years. Porn never had any effect on our relationship. We used to watch together. Now she doesn't watch at all, but things are still great between us.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

mrcool46 said:


> Absolutely - As a couple gets older they stop doing some of the things they did when they were young. Pornography is a great way to look at all types of sexual activity and get a release. I've been watching porn for 40 years and have been married 51 years. Porn never had any effect on our relationship. We used to watch together. Now she doesn't watch at all, but things are still great between us.


And you didn't hide or lie about your porn use. Big difference.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RebuildingMe said:


> Because most likely for the next dude, she’s going to have to work harder. Bring her “A game”. Few men are going to be foolish enough to fall for “marry me and I will show you sex like you’ve never seen”.


This ^^^^^

She may have pulled one over on Jonty years ago. 

But no man of her age cohort is going to fall for “after-we’re-married” now, And no man the least bit desirable to her is going to settle for no oral going forward. 

Young women in their prime can get away with that with relatively naive and inexperienced men. 

But no middle age man worth his weight in beetle dung is going to settle for that with a middle age woman. 

She will either be stepping up to the plate with her next guy or she’s simply going to be left along the side of the road.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Cletus said:


> So what's the point here, Jonty? To win an argument?


Again, a member here who is hitting the nail on the head. The thing is, jonty isn't here to directly confront the issues, just to obfuscate and rationalize. I've grown bored with the OP. Some people are hopeless cases. I don't see the point of his posting either, but hey, whatever floats his boat. Okay. Yawn. Carry on. Oh, yeah, and good luck!


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


If a man seeks out looking at and fantasizing about other women, for any made up reason in his head, then he doesn't love his wife. He loves himself and values himself and only cares about how good his penis feels. If a man wants to get off to other women, he should leave his wife. Sex within a marriage should be about connecting with your partner. Anything else is a form of infidelity. Playing with yourself because you are hard up and aren't getting what you want is selfish and shows a huge lack of maturity. No one wants to be married to a man child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> A little bit of both. I think one can assume that, if a spouse talks about blowing old boyfriends, that she might be willing to blow you.
> 
> I didn't realize that I would need a swearing in front of witnesses, with a lawyer's agreement, of what she would be willing to do.
> Did you sign a legal document with your spouse as to what was expected and what your response would be if they failed to comply?


We didn't have sex before we married but we did talk about it a lot and knew what each wanted and hoped for before we actually got married. 
It sounds like you didn't even discuss these things, you just assumed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> Or I could do something that I did not agree to not do, compensate with porn for the acts that she won't do.
> There is not word play. I've been honest about the whole thing.


In the end you are justifying your use of porn. Personally I think porn is damaging and has no place in a marriage. I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to be unfaithful in this way. 
You clearly think it's ok.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> In the end you are justifying your use of porn.


He tried so hard, and got so far
But in the end he’s justifying his use of porn
He had to spank to empty the tank
But in the end he’s justifying his use of porn


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

The thing about porn use and excessive masturbation is that it satisfies you, but kills your drive to pursue and initiate with your partner.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jjj858 said:


> The thing about porn use and excessive masturbation is that it satisfies you, but kills your drive to pursue and initiate with your partner.


Plus it fills your mind with countless images.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Plus it fills your mind with countless images.


Does it? That sounds terrible, hopefully they go away eventually.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Does it? That sounds terrible, hopefully they go away eventually.


Apparently they don't.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Is it still bad if the couples watch porn together? What about the webcam sites out there and the many couples that are broadcasting on them?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Is it still bad if the couples watch porn together? What about the webcam sites out there and the many couples that are broadcasting on them?


The mental images though!


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Does it? That sounds terrible, hopefully they go away eventually.


It goes away about as fast as the wife's previous goes away in her mind. 
Maybe that's why porn is so threatening to woman, because they fear the imagery going away as fast as previous relationship go away in her mind. Ha!


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> In the end you are justifying your use of porn. Personally I think porn is damaging and has no place in a marriage. I wouldn't marry a man who thought it was ok to be unfaithful in this way.
> You clearly think it's ok.


I do justify it where I am not allowed to experience.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Porn isn't threatening, it's cheating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> I do justify it where I am not allowed to experience.


Your decision.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Your decision.


Yes it is.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Porn isn't threatening, it's cheating.


She's cheating me of my experiences.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Is it still bad if the couples watch porn together? What about the webcam sites out there and the many couples that are broadcasting on them?


Thats for you to decide. 
Just because many couples do something doesn't make it ok.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> Yes it is.


So why start a thread asking if porn is justified if you think it is. 


jonty30 said:


> She's cheating me of my experiences.


Nonsense.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Nonsense.


I disagree.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> I disagree.


You are the one cheating.


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> It goes away about as fast as the wife's previous goes away in her mind.
> Maybe that's why porn is so threatening to woman, because they fear the imagery going away as fast as previous relationship go away in her mind. Ha!


You do not love your wife. You do not want to connect with your wife. You do not value your marriage. You want someone to relieve your guilt by agreeing with you.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

AndStilliRise said:


> You do not love your wife. You do not want to connect with your wife. You do not value your marriage. You want someone to relieve your guilt by agreeing with you.


I have no guilt. It's a solution to a problem.
My post was more of an opinion gathering post.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Porn isn't threatening, it's cheating.


LOL


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

AndStilliRise said:


> You do not love your wife. You do not want to connect with your wife. You do not value your marriage. You want someone to relieve your guilt by agreeing with you.


Oh please. Spare us. Head to NYC for your acting auditions.
He doesn’t have guilt. He just lacks a backbone to stand up to his wife.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You do not love your wife. You do not want to connect with your wife. You do not value your marriage. You want someone to relieve your guilt by agreeing with you.
[/QUOTE]
Yep, spot on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

AndStilliRise said:


> You do not love your wife. You do not want to connect with your wife. You do not value your marriage. You want someone to relieve your guilt by agreeing with you.


Yep, spot on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> LOL


Is porn forsaking all others? Hmmm....let me think.....nope.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

To me this could be solved very simply but for whatever reason the OP won’t answer any questions about it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Whatever the OPs reason for not responding, I will say I do agree that if my wife isn't interested and I am 'in the mood', I occassionally will check something out online for entertainment. I wouldn't turn to watching others have sex IN PLACE of having sex with my wife but she is not always wanting sex when I do, so I see it as a viable option. Is it wrong that I want a release when she doesn't? I don't see it as such. 

And yes some of it is watching the fantasy stuff that I won't ever experience in real life (sex with two women, sex outside in public, sex on a beach, etc). Weird to some? Maybe so but its done in the privacy of my own home.

I don't see it as spite or revenge against my wife, just my own human curiousity and primitive needs being met.

And my wife has asked before if I watch porn online and I have told her "Yes, I do occassionally" and then added if she ever wants me to NOT do that just let me know and I will meet her in the bedroom.

Whether its wrong on someone's religious values is up to them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Whatever the OPs reason for not responding, I will say I do agree that if my wife isn't interested and I am 'in the mood', I occassionally will check something out online for entertainment. I wouldn't turn to watching others have sex IN PLACE of having sex with my wife but she is not always wanting sex when I do, so I see it as a viable option. Is it wrong that I want a release when she doesn't? I don't see it as such.
> 
> And yes some of it is watching the fantasy stuff that I won't ever experience in real life (sex with two women, sex outside in public, sex on a beach, etc). Weird to some? Maybe so but its done in the privacy of my own home.
> 
> ...


To me it's not just my faith that makes me avoid porn, even when I found my dad's stash of porn mag when I was in my early to mid teens I lost a lot of respect for him and knew it wasn't something I ever wanted in any future marriage.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> To me it's not just my faith that makes me avoid porn, even when I found my dad's stash of porn mag when I was in my early to mid teens I lost a lot of respect for him and knew it wasn't something I ever wanted in any future marriage.


I respect that Diana. And thats OK as many here have said that as well. Yet there are others who say they enjoy using porn to spice up their lives so I would say its all a personal descision.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Whatever the OPs reason for not responding, I will say I do agree that if my wife isn't interested and I am 'in the mood', I occassionally will check something out online for entertainment. I wouldn't turn to watching others have sex IN PLACE of having sex with my wife but she is not always wanting sex when I do, so I see it as a viable option. Is it wrong that I want a release when she doesn't? I don't see it as such.
> 
> And yes some of it is watching the fantasy stuff that I won't ever experience in real life (sex with two women, sex outside in public, sex on a beach, etc). Weird to some? Maybe so but its done in the privacy of my own home.
> 
> ...


So you insist you wife have sex even if she doesn’t feel like it to ensure you don’t support an industry that is well known for its demeaning of women and it’s no consensual and illegal videos? 
Even if you don’t watch those particular videos you are still supporting this industry 
Why should your wife have to ‘perform ‘ sex she may not want in order for you to restrain from this 
Are you unable to masturbate without porn? The type of porn available today is far far removed from anything ever seem throughout history and Men have done so for Millenia


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Whatonearth said:


> So you insist you wife have sex even if she doesn’t feel like it to ensure you don’t support an industry that is well known for its demeaning of women and it’s no consensual and illegal videos?
> Even if you don’t watch those particular videos you are still supporting this industry
> Why should your wife have to ‘perform ‘ sex she may not want in order for you to restrain from this
> Are you unable to masturbate without porn? The type of porn available today is far far removed from anything ever seem throughout history and Men have done so for Millenia


You completely missed the point in my reply.

But if you want to say my watching porn is supporting the demaining of women, go for it! By the way, I would say you are completely wrong as the stuff I watch is amateur with couples making their own and I am fairly certain they are 100% into it from both perspectives, male and female.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Duplicate


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

Not sure what’s happened . Thought I’d duplicated
Anyway. My response is that you absolutely cant know that all those videos are consensual
If you do even a little research into the industry ( having worked with women who have been affected by it ) a little look into so called ‘amateur ‘ porn you’ll find many many women have videos that they filmed with partners uploaded without their consent as revenge porn on those sites
Perhaps ask yourself how it is you KNOW those women consent to their videos being posted abd that the sites you support only allow videos where both parties consent


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

I’ll leave my input there as from past experience I’ve learnt that porn supporters tend not to want to hear or acknowledge that they can very rarely know there’s always consent least of all that the site doesn’t allow any non consensual slip throughs
There’s a mountain of reputable sites , research by universities and social scientists to back up the damage caused by the industry ( including amateur porn sites ) if users are interested to look


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> My first marriage we were both brain washed by religious nut cases (I won't say the church but they are very anti-premarital sex and divorce at any time especially back in the 60's thru 80's). So divorce was not an option for me. So I spent 10 long sexless years hating her and hating my marriage but felt I was married to her so I was stuck with both. I didn't come to a decision until I went into a major depression and ended up in a Psyche ward where I was basically deprogrammed and that is when I divorced her as soon as I got out. She didn't want the divorce, she was happy being married with no sex. I didn't give her a choice I just served her with the papers and said "Sign the damn things".
> 
> Since my ED my present wife knows I watch porn. She comes in and sees me watching it and even watches it over my shoulder and laughs at it and makes comments about the men and women doing it. Then she turns and walks out and goes back to her own little world. We are just roommates.
> 
> ...


That is throwed off! Wonder if she is in to bestiality? Do you have any large male dogs? Knew of a woman once that divorced her hubby because she said her German Shepherd was better than hubby.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I haven't seen tv for about 17 years. She might watch a few minutes, but it's not a lot of time.
> 
> I always tell her that she's beautiful, because she is.
> I cook a few meals every week.
> ...


Go to sleep right after work? Have you had your T level checked?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

AndStilliRise said:


> If a man seeks out looking at and fantasizing about other women, for any made up reason in his head, then he doesn't love his wife. He loves himself and values himself and only cares about how good his penis feels. If a man wants to get off to other women, he should leave his wife. Sex within a marriage should be about connecting with your partner. Anything else is a form of infidelity. Playing with yourself because you are hard up and aren't getting what you want is selfish and shows a huge lack of maturity. No one wants to be married to a man child.


All the above goes for both sexes. Biblically, fantasizing about someone other than your spouse is adultry. All the mommy smut books(SOG,etc.) are equivalent to porn, sometimes worse.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Whatever the OPs reason for not responding, I will say I do agree that if my wife isn't interested and I am 'in the mood', I occassionally will check something out online for entertainment. I wouldn't turn to watching others have sex IN PLACE of having sex with my wife but she is not always wanting sex when I do, so I see it as a viable option. Is it wrong that I want a release when she doesn't? I don't see it as such.
> 
> And yes some of it is watching the fantasy stuff that I won't ever experience in real life (sex with two women, sex outside in public, sex on a beach, etc). Weird to some? Maybe so but its done in the privacy of my own home.
> 
> ...


I'm very tame in my tastes and desires.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Go to sleep right after work? Have you had your T level checked?


I work 12 hour days and I just do that ensure that I don't sleep in. On most days, I will sleep about 7 hours and wake up without the aid of an alarm clock.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> A lot of guys erroneously think this was some malicious and "bait and switch" act on the part of the wife when no... she just genuinely lost sexual desire the moment everything became certain and comfortable. It's a real fight and real work for her to get to that headspace again...*and who the hell wants more work?!*


Partners who care about and value the feelings of the person they say they love.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Partners who care about and value the feelings of the person they say they love.


You can tell many of the women here, who aren't being equal partners in their marriage that. 
I just prefer to not argue about it. Pushing it ends up meaning with less sex than before and more restrictions as to when she might be interested.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> You can tell many of the women here, who aren't being equal partners in their marriage that.
> I just prefer to not argue about it. Pushing it ends up meaning with less sex than before and more restrictions as to when she might be interested.


I'm afraid that someday, you are going to look back and wish you had argued and worked harder to ensure your needs matter to your monogamous partner.
I HOPE I am wrong about that...


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> I work 12 hour days and I just do that ensure that I don't sleep in. On most days, I will sleep about 7 hours and wake up without the aid of an alarm clock.


Keeping the discussion here.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere but how long have you been with your wife and how long married?

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anything about children?

Do you have one thread where your whole story is laid out?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm afraid that someday, you are going to look back and wish you had argued and worked harder to ensure your needs matter to your monogamous partner.
> I HOPE I am wrong about that...


I give her everything I can and she's not willing to try and reframe some of her experiences into positive ones. I can't make her change on that. 
It's an unfortunate reality that women today are taught to go out and have as much sexual fun as they can, when young, but they get emotionally damaged and are only fractionally available to the man that will love them for the rest of their lives and he sacrifices himself for that damaged and incomplete woman and she doesn't want to try and heal.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> I give her everything I can and she's not willing to try and reframe some of her experiences into positive ones. I can't make her change on that.
> It's an unfortunate reality that *women today are taught* to go out and have as much sexual fun as they can, when young, but they get emotionally damaged and are only fractionally available to the man that will love them for the rest of their lives and he sacrifices himself for that damaged and incomplete woman and she doesn't want to try and heal.


I agree with alot of what you said, except this -- they are not taught...they CHOOSE.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Keeping the discussion here.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere but how long have you been with your wife and how long married?
> 
> ...


We don't have kids. I haven't laid out my story, because it would be a long one and it wouldn't matter much. I know myself and I've dealt with myself honestly, with no shirking from my hurtful past. But I've had to heal on my own, because my hurts are impossibly deep for even the greatest of counselors to address. 

I was only interested in this particular topic.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree with alot of what you said, except this -- they are not taught...they CHOOSE.


They choose, yes.

But what they choose is within a culture that teaches sexual experiences are the highest of aims.
Women are not taught how their psychology is tied in to being loved and giving themselves sexually to those who don't love them damages them, sometimes irrepairably.. Men are not taught that their best selves is based on honour and love. The men who love them have to pick up the pieces along the way in hopes he can put somebody back together. 

Wanton sex is not the highest of aims. Loving and trying to bring out the best in your spouse is the higher aim.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> They choose, yes.
> 
> But what they choose is within a culture that teaches sexual experiences are the highest of aims.
> Women are not taught how their psychology is tied in to being loved and giving themselves sexually to those who don't love them damages them, sometimes irrepairably.. Men are not taught that their best selves is based on honour and love. The men who love them have to pick up the pieces along the way in hopes he can put somebody back together.
> ...


I haven't read your whole thread, so I'm sorry if you've already answered this, but is she in counseling?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I haven't read your whole thread, so I'm sorry if you've already answered this, but is she in counseling?


No. She doesn't really want that. 

I'm letting her heal, as I have had to heal. 
Letting God do the work, with little internal confrontations along the way. 
I'd rather have her safe and be able to talk to me than be confronted by a counselor, who could possibly set her back.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> No. She doesn't really want that.
> 
> I'm letting her heal, as I have had to heal.
> Letting God do the work, with little internal confrontations along the way.
> I'd rather have her safe and be able to talk to me than be confronted by a counselor, who could possibly set her back.


Well, I hope it works out for you both.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My girl is, and has been, wilder in the sack with me than anyone else.

That's partially due to me requiring what she has to offer.

The words you have used paints a picture of your wife controlling and doling the sex in your marriage.

That is an extremely unhealthy practice.

My wife gets to have sex with me. She doesn't dole it out if I'm a good boy.


----------



## Angel wings (Oct 31, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


No it's not wrong for him if her reaction was negative in bedroom and why did she marry you with a chapter in her life that's unfinished. It's wrong for her to punish you like that. Every woman dream of having a man like fifty shades of Grey... 🙈😂


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Angel wings said:


> No it's not wrong for him if her reaction was negative in bedroom and why did she marry you with a chapter in her life that's unfinished. It's wrong for her to punish you like that. Every woman dream of having a man like fifty shades of Grey... 🙈😂


Women desire connection with sex. The men, they think they have a connection with, don't care about them. They don't care if the men leave them permanently damaged in some way. It's why many of these women choose safe men to marry and then they keep things safe after spending a wanton youth. 

It's unfortunate that I have to get less than I deserve, but for better or worse.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I give her everything I can and she's not willing to try and reframe some of her experiences into positive ones. I can't make her change on that.
> It's an unfortunate reality that women today are taught to go out and have as much sexual fun as they can, when young, but they get emotionally damaged and are only fractionally available to the man that will love them for the rest of their lives and he sacrifices himself for that damaged and incomplete woman and she doesn't want to try and heal.


Honestly... then a man should not marry a damaged and incomplete woman. Really. 

I truly believe an emotionally healthy and whole man wouldn't stand for committing to life with a woman who is only fractionally available to him and isn't interested in healing her damages.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Honestly... then a man should not marry a damaged and incomplete woman. Really.
> 
> I truly believe an emotionally healthy and whole man wouldn't stand for committing to life with a woman who is only fractionally available to him and isn't interested in healing her damages.


You're right, if my priority was myself. 
It's not. 

I do care about her. If she were to step out of the relationship, I would end it. 
However, as long as she is willing to otherwise commit to the relationship, I'm fine with how things are.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> I agree with alot of what you said, except this -- they are not taught...they CHOOSE.


Worth repeating. 

That is why i tell my boys the choice in a wife is the 2nd most important decision you make in life. Choose carefully.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This almost seems more of a sermon about the downfall of modern women as opposed to an actual relationship discussion.

This should probably be in the social spot because the entire thread is about preaching the woes of modern womanhood and wanting no advice.

The OP has contradicted himself at least in tone by talking about how much the situation bothers him and then saying he is fine with it.

I, for one, do not need preached to on this subject.

I know trends are happening and talking about them is fine but this thread was began in SIM and posted with the intent of getting help in a specific situation while the OP deflects advice and keeps preaching.

I would advise you now @jonty30 to start general discussions in the social spot as you really don't want advice so much as you want to discuss a certain trend happening with a portion of the female population today, a trend that I don't view as fatalistically as you.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> This almost seems more of a sermon about the downfall of modern women as opposed to an actual relationship discussion.
> 
> This should probably be in the social spot because the entire thread is about preaching the woes of modern womanhood and wanting no advice.
> 
> ...


See my post #73 on page 4:



Blondilocks said:


> I don't think you really have a problem. With all of the generalizing, I'd bet you're here to make a case for something. Porn or whatever.


See, this is what happens when a person who works part-time at a convenience store has too much time on their hands.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah the basic question of did you ask her why she won’t and if so what was the answer? Still not answered after all these pages.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> See my post #73 on page 4:
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what happens when a person who works part-time at a convenience store has too much time on their hands.


He claims to work 12 hour days. I would be getting a certification of some sort to be making more money.

Regardless, I don't need any preaching here because I'm a Chad after all.😉

I also don't like wasting my time trying to help when someone just wants to complain.

I don't mind a gripe or two while accomplishing but simply complaining is anathema to me.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> See my post #73 on page 4:
> 
> 
> 
> See, this is what happens when a person who works part-time at a convenience store has too much time on their hands.


It's not my only job. 
My other job is four days on and off for 12 hour shifts.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> This almost seems more of a sermon about the downfall of modern women as opposed to an actual relationship discussion.
> 
> This should probably be in the social spot because the entire thread is about preaching the woes of modern womanhood and wanting no advice.
> 
> ...


Not so sure it's a trend happening with women as much as it is a trend with men. Men are marrying women and staying with rhem, even though they are only being provided a sub par relationship.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Not so sure it's a trend happening with women as much as it is a trend with men. Men are marrying women and staying with rhem, even though they are only being provided a sub par relationship.


I was actually referring to his general preaching about women playing loose with their virtue when younger and getting damaged by it.

He has been going on a lot about that topic.

I definitely agree that the men have a pretty big trending problem if they are putting up with some of this nonsense.😉


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah the basic question of did you ask her why she won’t and if so what was the answer? Still not answered after all these pages.


@jonty30 What is the answer to these questions? Have you asked your wife why she won't perform oral sex on you and if you did, what was her answer?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I was actually referring to his general preaching about women playing loose with their virtue when younger and getting damaged by it.
> 
> He has been going on a lot about that topic.
> 
> I definitely agree that the men have a pretty big trending problem if they are putting up with some of this nonsense.😉


Like being a ho for their much more alpha boyfriend that wasn't afraid to use her. Then giving you beta starfish sex because yourespect her so much. Why do you think that is?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Like being a ho for their much more alpha boyfriend that wasn't afraid to use her. Then giving you beta starfish sex because yourespect her so much. Why do you think that is?


I wouldn't know because I'm a Chad.

This should be posted on the social spot for more discussion.

I'm being a little tongue in cheek with my response here.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Not so sure it's a trend happening with women as much as it is a trend with men. Men are marrying women and staying with rhem, even though they are only being provided a sub par relationship.


EXACTLY.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I wouldn't know because I'm a Chad.
> 
> This should be posted on the social spot for more discussion.
> 
> I'm being a little tongue in cheek with my response here.


I can't think of anything more alpha than the name Chad haha.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @jonty30 What is the answer to these questions? Have you asked your wife why she won't perform oral sex on you and if you did, what was her answer?


Because she doesn't want to. I think I answered that. It is unpleasant for her.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> Because she doesn't want to. I think I answered that. It is unpleasant for her.


Did you ask her why it is unpleasant?


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Did you ask her why it is unpleasant?


She won't answer that.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> She won't answer that.


Well, in that case, I think porn is justifiable.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, in that case, I think porn is justifiable.


And do you think hiding it from his wife is also justifiable and the way to build trust in a relationship?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> She won't answer that.


Are you hiding the porn from her? WHY...does she also want to control what sexual acts you can WATCH, not just engage in...??


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> And do you think hiding it from his wife is also justifiable and the way to build trust in a relationship?


Why not, if she's not being honest on the most basic level, then why does he owe her the same respect? But I don't know why he is hiding it... guilt? shame? fear? must be something...


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why not, if she's not being honest on the most basic level, then why does he owe her the same respect? But I don't know why he is hiding it... guilt? shame? fear? must be something...


So this is the makings of a great marriage. They don't communicate and one day she'll find out. They always do.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Because she doesn't want to. I think I answered that. It is unpleasant for her.


So she says she did it in the past and refuses to now because in the past it was “unpleasant” with no other details.

Yeah, if it was my wife I’d want a bit more explanation than just the word “unpleasant”.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> So she says she did it in the past and refuses to now because in the past it was “unpleasant” with no other details.
> 
> Yeah, if it was my wife I’d want a bit more explanation than just the word “unpleasant”.


He's been very cagey about if she actually told him she did it in the past. What her experience was or anything like that. He also orginally told us that she said there would be BJ's after marriage but then it turns out he inferred that.

So good luck on him answering your question.

I'm with Conan. he doesn't want to improve his relationship he came for permission to view porn cause he won't talk to his wife about it. He also came to denigrate us poor females who don'f follow his red pill rules and he has dodge the ASD question twice.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> That's partially due to me requiring what she has to offer.


Hoping this isn’t entirely a threadjack, as it applies to the OP, I’d love to hear more about this @ConanHub. Can you describe exactly what that looks like? I suspect many women on here would flame you for “requiring” a woman to do anything, especially sexually….


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

gr8ful1 said:


> Hoping this isn’t entirely a threadjack, as it applies to the OP, I’d love to hear more about this @ConanHub. Can you describe exactly what that looks like? I suspect many women on here would flame you for “requiring” a woman to do anything, especially sexually….


Well you'd be wrong. But Conan was upfront with his wife BEFORE they got married. He didn't have sex with her propose and then change the rules.

He also communicates with his WIFE instead of sneaking behind her back.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> So this is the makings of a great marriage. They don't communicate and one day she'll find out. They always do.


Indeed, but resentment doesn't help anything either. Maybe if he didn't hide it (I'm going on your word since I haven't read the entire thread) and told her his dillema then he could atleast understand why... Use it as leverage. Sounds like he is miserable so why not.


----------



## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well you'd be wrong


I’m wrong that a husband requiring sexual acts from his wife would upset many people? I strongly disagree.

ETA: fixed typo


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

gr8ful1 said:


> I’m wrong that a husband requiring sexual acts from his wife would upset many people? I strongly disagree.


Do I get to require a specific income level? 😏


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

gr8ful1 said:


> I’m wrong that a husband requiring sexual acts from his wife would upset many people? I strongly disagree.
> 
> ETA: fixed typo


Ok that is true. 

However if you read this thread you'll see he never recieved these acts prior to marriage they didn't actually discuss this prior to marriage and now he wants to change the rules except he isn't willing to be honest with his wife about it.

I think most think it is ok to expect sex (nobody is going to agree with require) from your spouse and that things done during the courting session will be on menu. That with discussion of course things do change and some stuff may go off menu and other stuff may come on menu but this is a discussion that people have. They shouldn't ***** and moan about it and sneak behind the others back. that's no way for a healthy marriage or relationship.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gr8ful1 said:


> Hoping this isn’t entirely a threadjack, as it applies to the OP, I’d love to hear more about this @ConanHub. Can you describe exactly what that looks like? I suspect many women on here would flame you for “requiring” a woman to do anything, especially sexually….


I do have requirements but I always have had them.

Sex is similar to food to me if I have a mate.

My women wouldn't be my women if they weren't down with it.

I also have a lot of requirements I place on myself and I agree with being required to do certain things for my wife.

Some things just aren't optional if you want a satisfying marriage.

Mrs. Conan is a very secure and satisfied wife BTW and she obviously knew what she was getting into after getting her brains scrambled more than thirty times in our first week of dating.😉


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> She won't answer that.


I suggest you tell her that you respect her choice, then ask her to respect your choice of using porn to help with the desires for things she won't do for you. What do you think her response would be to that?


----------



## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Agree with all of that @Anastasia6. Was only talking about the word “requiring“ and how triggering that would be for many here.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok that is true.
> 
> However if you read this thread you'll see he never recieved these acts prior to marriage they didn't actually discuss this prior to marriage and now he wants to change the rules except he isn't willing to be honest with his wife about it.
> 
> I think most think it is ok to expect sex (nobody is going to agree with require) from your spouse and that things done during the courting session will be on menu. That with discussion of course things do change and some stuff may go off menu and other stuff may come on menu but this is a discussion that people have. They shouldn't *** and moan about it and sneak behind the others back. that's no way for a healthy marriage or relationship.


But this is what happens. If men aren't being fulfilled sexually they turn either to porn or other women. I know my wife doesn't like me watching porn, but if there is a dry spell for whatever reason and I don't want to hurt her feelings, then I'm gonna find a release. I'm pretty vanilla so I don't understand what exactly he needs, but she apparently isn't being forthcoming. I just need frequency even if its only two times a week. My wife knows this.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> But this is what happens. If men aren't being fulfilled sexually they turn either to porn or other women. I know my wife doesn't like me watching porn, but if there is a dry spell for whatever reason and I don't want to hurt her feelings, then I'm gonna find a release. I'm pretty vanilla so I don't understand what exactly he needs, but she apparently isn't being forthcoming. I just need frequency even if its only two times a week. My wife knows this.


So if your wife knows you use porn to fill in that is entirely different than his situation.

He has the ability to leave for a more satisfying situation and she should have the knowledge to accept or leave a porn user. Or she might even change her stance.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> So if your wife knows you use porn to fill in that is entirely different than his situation.


She knows I will, but I'm not going to inform her each time. But if it's been a week, she probably can guess.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> She knows I will, but I'm not going to inform her each time. But if it's been a week, she probably can guess.


So in other words. Your marriage has communicated these things. I wouldn't expect you to tell her each time.

What I'm saying is everyone jumping on and say yes it's ok and don't worry about it is ignoring basic marriage tenents.

You don't lie or hide stuff from your spouse. You communicate with them. Everyone gets to know whats going on and everyone can make their decision from there.

You see the ONLY two people who get to decide if his porn use or her lack of BJ's is ok it the TWO who are actually MARRIED. 

Since he isn't looking to improve his situation or even clarify it. It is irresponsible to just say yes it's ok to watch it and hide it.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife doesn’t care if I watch porn.

I explained to her that it is a weakness on my part if I watch it and a tragic waste because I’d much rather be intimate with her. I want her to be my porn lady.

So now when I want something I just tell her straight up. Seems to work a lot better than being a Eugene jerking it in a dark corner watching other people doing things that you should be doing yourself.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

jonty30 said:


> We don't have kids. I haven't laid out my story, because it would be a long one and it wouldn't matter much. I know myself and I've dealt with myself honestly, with no shirking from my hurtful past. But I've had to heal on my own, because my hurts are impossibly deep for even the greatest of counselors to address.
> 
> I was only interested in this particular topic.


No kids? Why stay married?

Dude, you are your own worst enemy here. Reading your thread, I don't think you would be any more successful with another woman in getting what you want, b/c you seem so conflict avoidant. 

What's the point in asking for consensus if porn use is ok and not having a come to Jesus discussion with your wife? Btw, I'm no puritan, I have used porn and am not against it but I found it emotionally unfulfilling and lonely. I also wasted over a decade of my life in a sexless marriage with a man who eventually cheated, so I'm not being harsh to condemn you at all. It's just sad to see you settling for so much less than you say you need like you don't matter at all.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> She won't answer that.


I know the OP isn't popular around here (for good reason) but did anyone expect his wife to answer why? Clearly she wants it off the table and isn't interested in justifying her decision.

And TBH there isn't an answer that would not make her look bad.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why not, if she's not being honest on the most basic level, then why does he owe her the same respect? But I don't know why he is hiding it... guilt? shame? fear? must be something...


Having been there and done that in my younger, dumber days, it likely has to do with his dedication to keeping the marriage going.

His wife likely resents his sexual preferences and if he's watching porn then clearly he's still over what he's not getting, which threatens the marriage for her.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DTO said:


> Having been there and done that in my younger, dumber days, it likely has to do with his dedication to keeping the marriage going.
> 
> His wife likely resents his sexual preferences and if he's watching porn then clearly he's still over what he's not getting, which threatens the marriage for her.


What? Preferences? He performs oral on HER. She just won't reciprocate the favor. She should be worried about that.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> So she says she did it in the past and refuses to now because in the past it was “unpleasant” with no other details.
> 
> Yeah, if it was my wife I’d want a bit more explanation than just the word “unpleasant”.


Do we know for a fact she did? If she misled the OP into marriage by saying she would, and they weren't virgins, would we expect her to say she never did it before?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DTO said:


> I know the OP isn't popular around here (for good reason) but did anyone expect his wife to answer why? Clearly she wants it off the table and isn't interested in justifying her decision.
> 
> And TBH there isn't an answer that would not male her look bad.


Since the OP rarely gives much information, she says it’s “unpleasant” why?

It could be unpleasant because a previous partner was borderline violent or abusive. Or… it could be unpleasant because penises are yucky! Or anything between that. Maybe he smells bad?

The reason matters at least to me because if you ever want to try to change things you need to know what the hell is going on.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DTO said:


> Do we know for a fact she did? If she misled the OP into marriage by saying she would, and they weren't virgins, would we expect her to say she never did it before?


It’s hard to tell because the OP never really answers anything in plain language. But now we have that she said it’s unpleasant.

Is it unpleasant because she dislikes the idea of it, or she has tried it before and didn’t like it? Who knows? Maybe the OP doesn’t even know.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> What? Preferences? He performs oral on HER. She just won't reciprocate the favor. She should be worried about that.


Just because she lets him do that does not mean she will reciprocate. It's odd but it happens.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> Since the OP rarely gives much information, she says it’s “unpleasant” why?
> 
> It could be unpleasant because a previous partner was borderline violent or abusive. Or… it could be unpleasant because penises are yucky! Or anything between that. Maybe he smells bad?
> 
> The reason matters at least to me because if you ever want to try to change things you need to know what the hell is going on.


You're missing the point that she just doesn't want to go there. If she says his hygiene is bad, he'll fix it. Anything actionable will get him working but nothing will change. 

Then he'll be back here saying she keeps moving the goalposrs.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DTO said:


> You're missing the point that she just doesn't want to go there. If she says his hygiene is bad, he'll fix it. Anything actionable will get him working but nothing will change.
> 
> Then he'll be back here saying she keeps moving the goalposrs.


Maybe. All we know now is they talked about it at least once, she says it’s unpleasant, then he comes on here to talk generalizations.

Like Conan said, if you want to make a thread and seek advice about what to do about it, that’s one thing. If instead you want to use it as a launching point for general statements and not discuss your actual problem that’s something else.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

gr8ful1 said:


> I’m wrong that a husband requiring sexual acts from his wife would upset many people? I strongly disagree.
> 
> ETA: fixed typo


Depends on what is meant by require.

If "require" means actually force or threaten her to get your way, then of course people would be upset.

If "require" means he says "I need XYZ to be sexually satisfied and I'm out if we can't get on the same page, he'll get some flack but not a ton.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And do you think hiding it from his wife is also justifiable and the way to build trust in a relationship?


I don't wish to argue about it with her. Most of the men here, who comply with the wife's wishes get to have monthly sex sessions and be celibate otherwise and aren't allowed to relieve themselves between sessions. I'm not going to live like that.


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## Extraextra (Nov 1, 2021)

I don’t know many women who obeject to men masterbating . Many object to porn
Hey are you unable to masterbate without porn qnd respect your wife


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> I give her everything I can and she's not willing to try and reframe some of her experiences into positive ones. I can't make her change on that.
> It's an unfortunate reality that women today are taught to go out and have as much sexual fun as they can, when young, but they get emotionally damaged and are only fractionally available to the man that will love them for the rest of their lives and he sacrifices himself for that damaged and incomplete woman and she doesn't want to try and heal.


Your wife is one person not all women. Plus no, women are not taught to do that and many dont.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Seems to work a lot better than being a *Eugene* jerking it in a dark corner watching other people doing things that you should be doing yourself.


Ha-ha. Is this a Walking Dead reference?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whatonearth said:


> I don’t know many women who obeject to men masterbating . Many object to porn
> Hey are you unable to masterbate without porn qnd respect your wife


This is the point I make sometimes. It's as if men today can't do one without other.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> This is the point I make sometimes. It's as if men today can't do one without other.


So not to completely thread hijack but do all women just masturbate by thought alone? None ever read anything erotic or look at anything sexual? And do they only think of their partner when doing so?


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So not to completely thread hijack but do all women just masturbate by thought alone? None ever read anything erotic or look at anything sexual? And do they only think of their partner when doing so?


I don’t masturbate in general but on the occasion I do yes thought alone.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Ha-ha. Is this a Walking Dead reference?


I was pretty sure I was referencing DSO’s podcast on porn; but he may have been referencing Walking Dead.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don’t masturbate in general but on the occasion I do yes thought alone.


You've never, ever, looked at a pic or video, whether in print or online, of guy or woman dressed or otherwise?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don’t masturbate in general but on the occasion I do yes thought alone.


Thanks. My wife doesn't either so I was just curious.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Thanks. My wife doesn't either so I was just curious.


It's really foreign to me to truly believe there are women who never masturbate, specifically women in a good sexual relationship with their H say they never masturbate. 

A woman that never ever masturbates, when married especially would be a red flag that she's a little too repressed sexually. Stripping and masturbating in a show for her H is a must.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's really foreign to me to truly believe there are women who never masturbate, specifically women in a good sexual relationship with their H say they never masturbate.


I was surprised my wife said she sometimes spanked it when I was away on business. I never pictured her doing that so I was pleasantly surprised.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's really foreign to me to truly believe there are women who never masturbate, specifically women in a good sexual relationship with their H say they never masturbate.
> 
> A woman that never ever masturbates, when married especially would be a red flag that she's a little too repressed sexually. Stripping and masturbating in a show for her H is a must.


I don't think my wife has ever truly masturbated. We've talked about it and I'm pretty confident she isn't lying. One time we were talking about fantasies and masturbating to them. The only thing she came up with was a time she was having a sexual dream during which she woke up and was rubbing herself. From the way she talked about it I really think that is the closest she has ever come to masturbation. I've been slowly trying to work on her to do it with me, even if just a part of foreplay. It is a work in progress and I don't want to push it too much since everything is quite good with us sexually. She is pretty tame I think, but I wouldn't call her repressed. She can be pretty wild when she is properly turned on. In fact under some circumstances she gets so turned on her inhibitions drop to the point where it is almost like she is a different person. I just think she needs someone to turn her on, she doesn't just spontaneously get the urge, so no need for her to masturbate. And on those occasions when she gets the urge she comes and gets me


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think my wife has ever truly masturbated. We've talked about it and I'm pretty confident she isn't lying. One time we were talking about fantasies and masturbating to them. The only thing she came up with was a time she was having a sexual dream during which she woke up and was rubbing herself. From the way she talked about it I really think that is the closest she has ever come to masturbation. I've been slowly trying to work on her to do it with me, even if just a part of foreplay. It is a work in progress and I don't want to push it too much since everything is quite good with us sexually. She is pretty tame I think, but I wouldn't call her repressed. She can be pretty wild when she is properly turned on. In fact under some circumstances she gets so turned on her inhibitions drop to the point where it is almost like she is a different person. I just think she needs someone to turn her on, she doesn't just spontaneously get the urge, so no need for her to masturbate. And on those occasions when she gets the urge she comes and gets me


I guess, I suppose. But sexually wild yet has never masturbated is an oxymoron to me. Not being critical by no means, just pondering.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I guess, I suppose. But sexually wild yet has never masturbated is an oxymoron to me. Not being critical by no means, just pondering.


I think its goes to the idea there are women who are just not into sex whether it be with someone else or on their own. I met a woman while between marriages who had not had sex in years and not masturbated in over a year and she was more or less proud of it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's really foreign to me to truly believe there are women who never masturbate, specifically women in a good sexual relationship with their H say they never masturbate.
> 
> A woman that never ever masturbates, when married especially would be a red flag that she's a little too repressed sexually. Stripping and masturbating in a show for her H is a must.


Well I guess my husband doesn't require a show.

I guess you could say I"m sexually repressed. I mean I only have sex as often as my husband can put in the work like say 5-10 times a week. I like sex, and toys and anal. I walk around naked and shower with my husband. Certainly I could be more adventerous. But I don't really feel sexually repressed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DTO said:


> Depends on what is meant by require.
> 
> If "require" means actually force or threaten her to get your way, then of course people would be upset.
> 
> If "require" means he says "I need XYZ to be sexually satisfied and I'm out if we can't get on the same page, he'll get some flack but not a ton.


My "require" means that's what it takes to fill the position of Mrs. Conan. Women who won't meet my requirements need not apply for the position.

Note I said "won't" and not "can't".

My sexual requirements have everything to do with willingness and nothing with coercion.

I'm a freak and I don't have hard feelings about any women who don't want to try and accommodate that. I agree with being totally upfront.

Mrs. C knew what she was getting into with me from day one.

We only had one bump in the road that involved bitter church ladies influencing Mrs. Conan to try and control and dole the sex in our marriage.

When I figured out what was going on ( it took me about two or three months of observation ) I had a loving heart to heart with my wife and reminded her that I was an alpha male (for lack of a better term) and I was going to pour my passion into a woman. I told her that I had always wanted that woman to be her and I still did but if she didn't want to be that woman, I would still be pouring into a woman who wanted me to. I told her I didn't want it to be anyone but her but I would move on if she was going to continue her behavior.
I wasn't bluffing but 
I delivered this conversation in a very loving, affirming and tender tone. She got a tear in her eye, grabbed my hand and took me upstairs. She eliminated every doubt and hindrance between us sexually and we never looked back.

I also give my best to her and do my best for her.

She has almost always driven a better car than me for one example.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well I guess my husband doesn't require a show.
> 
> I guess you could say I"m sexually repressed. I mean I only have sex as often as my husband can put in the work like say 5-10 times a week. I like sex, and toys and anal. I walk around naked and shower with my husband. Certainly I could be more adventerous. But I don't really feel sexually repressed.


I have to agree. Mrs. C does masturbate when I am not available but not in front of me and she only turns me down when she physically can't have sex occasionally.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I guess, I suppose. But sexually wild yet has never masturbated is an oxymoron to me. Not being critical by no means, just pondering.


I completely get what you are saying. I've been masturbating since I was probably 13 or 14, so it seems crazy that someone in their 50's has never touched themselves. Again, I think she is truthful. I think in part it may be because she isn't too crazy about clitoral stimulation. She only orgasms with penetration and she has never owned a sex toy. Yet, we've done some pretty wild things, BJ in a car after a concert, sex in the kitchen during a party, role playing games in bed. The only thing off the table with her is anal. Even that she attempted to allow me to try it, but just couldn't get over her aversion.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So not to completely thread hijack but do all women just masturbate by thought alone? None ever read anything erotic or look at anything sexual? And do they only think of their partner when doing so?


Men and women can do this.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> My "require" means that's what it takes to fill the position of Mrs. Conan. Women who won't meet my requirements need not apply for the position.
> 
> Note I said "won't" and not "can't".
> 
> ...


That is fine in my book and you should not get any push back for that. Nonetheless, some people will argue that any negative consequence for poor sex is inappropriate or possibly abusive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DTO said:


> That is fine in my book and you should not get any push back for that. Nonetheless, some people will argue that any negative consequence for poor sex is inappropriate or possibly abusive.


Hehehe. Those arguing aren't having their toes curled even after thirty years like my Mrs.

It's the most ridicule worthy argument in this barbarian's world.

There are consequences for everything.

Anyone who believes differently is smoking unicorn farts.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> This is the point I make sometimes. It's as if men today can't do one without other.


Well, the world managed for a long time without the wheel, the internal combustion engine, the cell phone, or the internet too. 

Your point is fatally logically flawed.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cletus said:


> Well, the world managed for a long time without the wheel, the internal combustion engine, the cell phone, or the internet too.
> 
> Your point is fatally logically flawed.


Technically porn has been around for about 40,000 years, so its nothing new.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Technically porn has been around for about 40,000 years, so its nothing new.


True, but any argument that starts with "A guy in medieval times could do it, so can you" is painful, no matter the topic.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Technically porn has been around for about 40,000 years, so its nothing new.


Watching people have sex isn't a recent phenomenon?😉


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Watching people have sex isn't a recent phenomenon?😉


In Rome, servants had too.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yep and in ancient times or not so recent times it was ok to rape a woman or beat a slave. How is this relevant?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Watching people have sex isn't a recent phenomenon?😉


Royal bedchambers used to be monitored. It was not for entertainment purposes, though.

There was always the Peeping Toms which is what porn reminds me of.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Royal bedchambers used to be monitored. It was not for entertainment purposes, though.
> 
> There was always the Peeping Toms which is what porn reminds me of.


I'm knowledgeable about human nature and history. I was just practicing sarcasm.😁


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> That is fine in my book and you should not get any push back for that. Nonetheless, some people will argue that any negative consequence for poor sex is inappropriate or possibly abusive.


That would be wrong thinking.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Hehehe. Those arguing aren't having their toes curled even after thirty years like my Mrs.
> 
> It's the most ridicule worthy argument in this barbarian's world.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. My point is that some people are that unreasonable. The OP's wife might be one such person, which would explain why he skulks around.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> This is the point I make sometimes. It's as if men today can't do one without other.


I can't do one without the other. That is how bad my imagination is.


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## Boltaction1948 (Oct 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Expecting your spouse to just perform your sexual fantasies is not love. Obviously what's normal to you isn't normal and ordinary to her. The time to find out about sexual compatibility is before you get married and certainly before you have children.


He did find out about her sexual compatibility before they got married and felt it matched his needs. Now she won't do any of what she did with him. That is very hurtful and puts him in 2nd place in her life--or worse, just a meal ticket. It sounds like she doesn't really value him or the relationship if she won't do with him that which she did with another (or others). She can say no, but so can he. Time to move on and find a wife that isn't as damaged.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Boltaction1948 said:


> He did find out about her sexual compatibility before they got married and felt it matched his needs. Now she won't do any of what she did with him. That is very hurtful and puts him in 2nd place in her life--or worse, just a meal ticket. It sounds like she doesn't really value him or the relationship if she won't do with him that which she did with another (or others). She can say no, but so can he. Time to move on and find a wife that isn't as damaged.


She just got tired of doing stuff that wasn't pleasurable to her. She's not a paid sex worker so she's under no obligation to perform.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She just got tired of doing stuff that wasn't pleasurable to her. She's not a paid sex worker so she's under no obligation to perform.


She is married. If she didn't want to have sex in most of its forms then she should not have agreed to get married. And yes she is paid for her services. I wager he pays the bills or most of them, gives her a place to live, provides safety and security so she is paid, not all in money but at least in benefits. That is like all marriages, the women are paid for sex which the man expects.to have regularly. .


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> She is married. If she didn't want to have sex in most of its forms then she should not have agreed to get married. And yes she is paid for her services. I wager he pays the bills or most of them, gives her a place to live, provides safety and security so she is paid, not all in money but at least in benefits. That is like all marriages, the women are paid for sex which the man expects.to have regularly. .


That's a deplorable attitude. Or maybe you just married a sex worker. I don't know.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's a deplorable attitude. Or maybe you just married a sex worker. I don't know.


ROFLMAO Well I married a woman who had lots of experience (she claims to have had almost 200 sex partners and a couple of women) and dated a couple of strippers who were also call girls and one made pornos so yes I have had experience with sex workers and women who have had lots of sex, but I have also married a virgin back when I was young so I have experienced all the extremes. (Oh by the way, the women who had lots of sex were way better than the virgin.)

Now as to the question at hand. Have you ever heard of Hypergamy? That is where women will ignore men who are average and go for the guys they think will provide the most security and the best of everything they think they deserve and use sex to pay for it. So women use sex to keep their man and keep him happy. It is also why women use sex as a weapon against men. They will withhold sex for any real or perceived wrong. In other words they withhold payment for services rendered by the man.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She just got tired of doing stuff that wasn't pleasurable to her. She's not a paid sex worker so she's under no obligation to perform.


Uh huh. Then, he's under no obligation to give her oral sex then. He's not a paid sex worker, either. Wonder how she'll like that.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She just got tired of doing stuff that wasn't pleasurable to her. She's not a paid sex worker so she's under no obligation to perform.


Neither should he be required to perform any function as a husband, because he's tired to. It's not who he is anymore either.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I've already stated that I don't expect her to do things she doesn't want to do. I can love her anyway.
> I'm still in the marriage and with her. I'm just doing some grieving about it, that's all.
> I can still substitute for the stuff that I would like to do that she won't and get some semi-satisfaction out of that.


Hmmm...



jonty30 said:


> *The nature of porn is invariably progressive* and the sexologists are finally admitting the truth that one's sexual identity is fluid and can be strengthened or weakened in a heterosexual way or homosexual way, depending on what you are constantly exposing yourself to.
> 
> He may not have started gay, but it looks like he is becoming bisexual and eventually gay, if he doesn't stop.


Given your claim that the nature of porn is invariably progressive. Can you share with us how long you think it it will take, for your porn use to see you become gay if you don't stop now?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> Given your claim that the nature of porn is invariably progressive. Can you share with us how long you think it it will take, for your porn use to see you become gay if you don't stop now?


I keep my habit to a very low level and I don't let progress beyond the lowest of levels. 

However, not everybody controls their habit.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> I keep my habit to a very low level and I don't let progress beyond the lowest of levels.





jonty30 said:


> The nature of porn is invariably progressive


Gotcha, so it isn't invariable at all.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> Gotcha, so it isn't invariable at all.


Only if you keep it specific.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hey @jonty30 my brother... if your spidey-sense is tingling that porn is bad- maybe you should listen to that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I can't do one without the other. That is how bad my imagination is.


Clearly.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Watching people have sex isn't a recent phenomenon?😉


Back in the early roman times, there were live shows by slaves while Roman leadership watched.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Back in the early roman times, there were live shows by slaves while Roman leadership watched.


The Romans had the lowest of morals.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> The Romans had the lowest of morals.


Hey, I'm not disagreeing with that. Just pointing out this has been around for thousands of years. So don't say I agree with the Roman's. 🙄🙂


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Hey, I'm not disagreeing with that. Just pointing out this has been around for thousands of years. So don't say I agree with the Roman's. 🙄🙂


For Roman leaders I guess yes.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She just got tired of doing stuff that wasn't pleasurable to her. She's not a paid sex worker so she's under no obligation to perform.


bait and switch. false advertising.

yes, people can grow tired of certain sex acts.
but if while dating she IMPLIED those sex acts were pleasurable, and would continue on into the marriage, and they all abruptly stopped....sounds like a good reason to divorce. it was deceitful to rope him in like that

and yes, having married sex IS part of the marriage contract. break it at your own peril


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> bait and switch. false advertising.
> 
> yes, people can grow tired of certain sex acts.
> but if while dating she IMPLIED those sex acts were pleasurable, and would continue on into the marriage, and they all abruptly stopped....sounds like a good reason to divorce. it was deceitful to rope him in like that
> ...


I certainly don't know any women who promised any man that they would continue doing whatever sex acts the man wanted into the future. I'm sorry but no such marriage contract exists. But I agree it sounds like a good reason to divorce once you find out your husband cares more about his penis than his family and would have been better matched to a prostitute.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I certainly don't know any women who promised any man that they would continue doing whatever sex acts the man wanted into the future. I'm sorry but no such marriage contract exists. But I agree it sounds like a good reason to divorce once you find out your husband cares more about his penis than his family and would have been better matched to a prostitute.


Most average people who have engaged in oral sex like to continue it. Many many many average people engage in oral sex. I have a few female friends who receive it EVERY TIME they have a sexual encounter with their husband. A few times a week. It’s nothing out of the ordinary. Especially if the spouse has indicated it's something they are going to be participating in. 

Marriage is (hopefully) for life. Imagine, because you married someone, you would never ever experience it ever again in your lifetime. Feels very constraining.

Have YOU ever been married??? Been in a very long term marriage??? If you haven't, it's hard to truly imagine what it feels like.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

god, what a horrible prospect, your wife wigs out, and suddenly refuses to do almost any of the sexual things she gladly did before you got married.

yes, unless there was a valid medical reason, i would kick her to the curb immediately. Instead of divorce, i would try to get the marriage annulled, so there is no trace of it every having been.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> god, what a horrible prospect, your wife wigs out, and suddenly refuses to do almost any of the sexual things she gladly did before you got married.
> 
> yes, unless there was a valid medical reason, i would kick her to the curb immediately. Instead of divorce, i would try to get the marriage annulled, so there is no trace of it every having been.


Wigs out? You mean finally came to her senses. I can just see you asking the priest, I need my marriage annulled because my wife quit doing BJ's whenever I wanted them.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Wigs out? You mean finally came to her senses. I can just see you asking the priest, I need my marriage annulled because my wife quit doing BJ's whenever I wanted them.


If she quits doing some things and I quit doing things I don't necessarily like, such as giving her oral sex, do you think that's good for the bedroom over the long haul?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> If she quits doing some things and I quit doing things I don't necessarily like, such as giving her oral sex, do you think that's good for the bedroom over the long haul?


If neither one of you enjoy giving it, which is often the case.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If neither one of you enjoy giving it, which is often the case.


Most people are willing to do things for their spouse that isn't the most enjoyable, just so they have enjoyment. It's all part of the give and take process.
However, if selfishness starts setting into the marriage, that couple is heading into a sexless marriage, because even the most easy to do sexual activities becomes a chore to do.

That's how you end up with porn, affairs, and unlove in the marriage.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Most people are willing to do things for their spouse that isn't the most enjoyable, just so they have enjoyment. It's all part of the give and take process.
> However, if selfishness starts setting into the marriage, that couple is heading into a sexless marriage, because even the most easy to do sexual activities becomes a chore to do.
> 
> That's how you end up with porn, affairs, and unlove in the marriage.


But not everyone thinks that that is a good trade. Some do but others don't. So you can't just have a one size fits-all rule.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> Most people are willing to do things for their spouse that isn't the most enjoyable, just so they have enjoyment. It's all part of the give and take process.
> However, if selfishness starts setting into the marriage, that couple is heading into a sexless marriage, because even the most easy to do sexual activities becomes a chore to do.
> 
> That's how you end up with porn, affairs, and unlove in the marriage.


I wouldn't want my husband to do anything he feels really uncomfortable with. Why would I? They are other things that we can do that we both like and enjoy. I am not going to have a paddy about it, nor watch it on porn which merely feeds it and makes the situation worse. 

Btw no one has to end up watching porn or having an affair. Thats their choice.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But not everyone thinks that that is a good trade. Some do but others don't. So you can't just have a one size fits-all rule.


For some, all acts are off limits, according to many of the posts on this site.


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## Eammon2B (Nov 11, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


----------



## MiaMia0930 (11 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> If a man is married to a women, who sowed her oats when she was younger and was hurt from her activities and, consequently, will not do some things with her husband because she has negative memories of those activities and, consequently, will not give him more than basic sex and very little risque sex. To be clear, I'm talking about relatively normal activities in the bedroom and not anything injurious, gross or humiliating or violating the marriage bed. She wants to protect herself and isn't willing to recast those activities in a more positive light with a loving husband. She just wants plain vanilla sex, because it's the safest sex for her to have.
> 
> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


I suppose it depends on what “normal” is…for me, I did a lot of things before I met my husband that I surely won’t do with him. Such as, MFF. Why won’t I do this with him? Because I love him and have no desire to share him. It was easy to do those thingswith people I had no emotions for. So, again, it truly depends on your definition of “normal”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I am not going to have a paddy about it,


Quick T/J, this is the cutest expression EVER. I've never heard it, but I'm totally going to work it into my vernacular. 

On topic, I'm WAY more adventurous with my husband than I ever was when I was single. I trust him more than I've honestly ever trusted anyone. (Trust is a problem for me) But then sex is VERY emotional for me, and I'm also someone for whom sexual fidelity is paramount.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Quick T/J, this is the cutest expression EVER. I've never heard it, but I'm totally going to work it into my vernacular.
> 
> On topic, I'm WAY more adventurous with my husband than I ever was when I was single. I trust him more than I've honestly ever trusted anyone. (Trust is a problem for me) But then sex is VERY emotional for me, and I'm also someone for whom sexual fidelity is paramount.


Its a British expression.😁


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

What about hedge porn?

*I’ve collected the first set of data on ‘hedge porn’ – there’s a lot we can learn from people’s experiences
Dr Kate Lister*
news.co.uk


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## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

cause


DownByTheRiver said:


> Expecting your spouse to just perform your sexual fantasies is not love. Obviously what's normal to you isn't normal and ordinary to her. The time to find out about sexual compatibility is before you get married and certainly before you have children.


I believe my w did not get enough info from her parents,we talked about what was ok and what was not. and what was not.she had NO fantasy missionary was the norm."I am dealing with a porn addiction " I'm in recovery.she informed me that sex was an Obligation,A chore. After repeated rejection it seemed like a lost cause.in counseling she agreed to I time a week did not last.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> But I'm a cuckold and expected to be one.
> 
> I view marriage from the willingness of both being a servant of the other. If one is not willing to serve the other, they cannot be an equal partner.
> What you are basically saying is that marriage is for woman and the husband gets nothing out of the relationship, unless she permits it.


You keep using cuckold? Is she screwing these other guys while married to you? In front of you? No. Then your not a cuckold.

My wife does not want to do anal. She did in past marriage trying to hold her marriage to a serial cheater together. She did not allow it because she wanted to...but felt she had to. She has made the comment she would be scared to with me since I am much larger than ex and she is afraid of prolapse and later bowel incontinence..which is a possibility. Not interested unless she wanted to for her, don't do it for me.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> You keep using cuckold? Is she screwing these other guys while married to you? In front of you? No. Then your not a cuckold.
> 
> My wife does not want to do anal. She did in past marriage trying to hold her marriage to a serial cheater together. She did not allow it because she wanted to...but felt she had to. She has made the comment she would be scared to with me since I am much larger than ex and she is afraid of prolapse and later bowel incontinence..which is a possibility. Not interested unless she wanted to for her, don't do it for me.


I'm using it in an elastic way to describe a woman's willingness to do with other men, in past relationships or if she's had an affair, but is not willing to do it with her husband.
There is not term out that otherwise describes this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> You keep using cuckold? Is she screwing these other guys while married to you? In front of you? No. Then your not a cuckold.
> 
> My wife does not want to do anal. She did in past marriage trying to hold her marriage to a serial cheater together. She did not allow it because she wanted to...but felt she had to. She has made the comment she would be scared to with me since I am much larger than ex and she is afraid of prolapse and later bowel incontinence..which is a possibility. Not interested unless she wanted to for her, don't do it for me.


People actually don't realise that anal sex can cause the damage you mentioned. Not surprising really as the muscles are the wrong way round, designed to expel waste not to take anything in.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> People actually don't realise that anal sex can cause the damage you mentioned. Not surprising really as the muscles are the wrong way round, designed to expel waste not to take anything in.


May be alot of women who do anal alot or anal porn, wearing adult diapers when older.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> May be alot of women who do anal alot or anal porn, wearing adult diapers when older.


Plus loads of gay men.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> She has made the comment she would be scared to with me since I am much larger than ex and she is afraid of prolapse and later bowel incontinence..which is a possibility.





Diana7 said:


> People actually don't realise that anal sex can cause the damage you mentioned. Not surprising really as the muscles are the wrong way round, designed to expel waste not to take anything in.





Divinely Favored said:


> May be alot of women who do anal alot or anal porn, wearing adult diapers when older.





Diana7 said:


> Plus loads of gay men.


I don't know if there is any legitimate medical research to back any of that up or whether it is just judgementalism and prejudice. 

When you're 90 years old and every muscle in your body is breaking down and atrophying, there's a good chance you're not going to have 100% control of your bowels at all times whether you've ever had anal sex or not. 

As the sphincter muscles are like any other muscles in that the more they are used the STRONGER they get, one could argue the opposite. 

Common sense and mindful practices have to come into play here. If people are shoving very large objects up there without proper warm up and lube etc, then yes injury and damage and tearing and scarring etc can occur. 

But to make a blanket statement that having anal sex will condemn someone to incontinence is chauvanistic and judgemental.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know if there is any legitimate medical research to back any of that up or whether it is just judgementalism and prejudice.
> 
> When you're 90 years old and every muscle in your body is breaking down and atrophying, there's a good chance you're not going to have 100% control of your bowels at all times whether you've ever had anal sex or not.
> 
> ...


Its a known medical fact. I remember reading about it years ago. It doesn't happen to everyone who has anal sex, but those who have a lot of anal sex risk it happening as their bowel and anus is being physically forced to do something it was never designed to do. The muscles aren't designed to have anything inserted but to expel waste. A bit like women who wear high heels a lot often end up with bunions and really bad feet, or people who abuse their lungs by smoking often end up with smoking related illnesses.

Anal Intercourse and Fecal Incontinence: Evidence from the 2009–2010 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey - PMC (nih.gov)


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## jenny_1 (7 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> Should the husband seek out fantasy fulfillment through porn, if he still wants to be married to her but is unfulfilled because he knows she has done those things with other people but now is unwilling?


I am assuming you have both talked about the sexual issues she has and the problems it is causing you and your marriage. If so, I would then be straight forward with her and tell her about your suggested use of porn for sexual pleasure and see what she says. She may agree - after all it's not like you're having any kind of relationship with a video. And then she may disagree and your request might cause her to get a better understanding of the pain you're experiencing because of her issues. 

Obviously talking this out is important, but I'm of the opinion that falling back to using porn isn't the end of the world, unless you start spending money on porn which you cannot easily afford.


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## Garama (3 mo ago)

For some categories of people yes i guess


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Must we really revitalize this thread after months of quiet?

Aren't there already enough porn discussions going on?


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

If a partner suffers from painful sex, or has physical or psychological problems that cause severe sexual dysfunctions, then yes porn and masturbation are a good substitute.


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