# Wife's tantrums.



## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

I found myself being really frustrated today with my wife. Her tantrums are wearing me down. Today, there was an issue with my son. He is from a previous relationship. My wife has been good about accepting the situation for the most part, but today I felt like she handled herself poorly. We have had numerous conversations about how we were going to discipline him and what her role is in those situations. We had agreed that she is to discipline him just as I would and just as we would discipline our daughter. Today, she tried to put him in timeout and he said no to her. Then she tried chasing him around the treehouse. I made the mistake of laughing, but I thought the scene was hilarious. In front of him, our daughter, our neighbor, and the neighbor's kid, she yells out this is not her responsibility and that she wasn't going to do this anymore. He was my son, not hers. She stormed into the house. I went in after her and tried to make nice. I apologized for laughing, but she didn't want to hear it. She repeated herself that it was a big relief that she doesn't have to worry about my son anymore. So I let her be, hoping she would cool down. Throughout the night, my son would go to her for various things and she ignored him. He didn't understand so he started to cry. Normally when he is over, she allows him to sleep with her at night. On this evening she rejected that idea and was very cold with me. I just let it go, but I'm feeling really frustrated with her. I just don't understand this behavior. Looking for some advice.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

I think she is being a little childish but if you have that dynamics of her playing the mum role then you must have her back until the kid gets it that he can't just say "no". Remember that he is not her kid. If she doesn't feel you backing her one solution is exactly what she is doing. Cutting ties with the kid. And you don't want that do you?

How old is the kid anyway?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This could get really nasty. Why did she need to discipline him? Was it justified?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

costa200 said:


> I think she is being a little childish but if you have that dynamics of her playing the mum role then you must have her back until the kid gets it that he can't just say "no". Remember that he is not her kid. If she doesn't feel you backing her one solution is exactly what she is doing. Cutting ties with the kid. And you don't want that do you?
> 
> How old is the kid anyway?


He is four. And I agree with backing her. I ended up putting him in timeout. He deserved it. It was just funny watching her chase him around. But I didn't like the course the situation took.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> This could get really nasty. Why did she need to discipline him? Was it justified?


It was justified. He was rough housing with another kid and the other kid got hurt. We had told him about engaging with other kids that way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dwaynewilliams said:


> It was justified. He was rough housing with another kid and the other kid got hurt. We had told him about engaging with other kids that way.


Is there more to this? Some backstory you might not be aware of? Has she always secretly harboured thoughts of dislike for your son, do you think?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> Is there more to this? Some backstory you might not be aware of? Has she always secretly harboured thoughts of dislike for your son, do you think?


She doesn't dislike him. She lives him very much and is very find of him. They really get along well. They usually don't have this type of struggle. Actually, I would say that he is closer to her than me. I'm usually the disciplinarian and she is the nurturer.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't know if I would call that a "tantrum"... I think she felt like you weren't backing her up. Your son will likely, (if he hasn't already), pick up on this and may disregard her as an authority figure... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> I don't know if I would call that a "tantrum"... I think she felt like you weren't backing her up. Your son will likely, (if he hasn't already), pick up on this and may disregard her as an authority figure... :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you would have seen it you would most likely agree that it was a tantrum. She completely ignored me and him all night. Even when he would ask her for milk, she would pretend like he wasn't there and he would have to come to me. She closed herself and our daughter off int the spare bedroom so that me and my son would be separated from them.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

dwaynewilliams said:


> He is four. And I agree with backing her. I ended up putting him in timeout. He deserved it. It was just funny watching her chase him around. But I didn't like the course the situation took.


If the situation looks something like this:

Benny Hill Chase - YouTube

Then you're justified in laughing somewhat. But she got annoyed at that and you probably should make a poker face next time. Does your wife engage in that kind of tantrums often?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

costa200 said:


> If the situation looks something like this:
> 
> Benny Hill Chase - YouTube
> 
> Then you're justified in laughing somewhat. But she got annoyed at that and you probably should make a poker face next time. Does your wife engage in that kind of tantrums often?


That made me laugh. Unfortunately she does throw tantrums often. But I am able to deal. I just don't know what the next move is with this situation.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

You and your son are a package. I would let her know that if she doesn't want to discipline him that's fine. But to be a pouty child and ignore the child....unacceptable. When she stated "that it was a big relief that she doesn't have to worry about your son anymore" that would have set me off. I would tell her if she continues to say those things then she wouldn't have to worry about either one of you anymore. I raised two step daughters and know they can be trying....but I knew my wife had kids before we got together. They came with the deal.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

I would say that it had nothing to do with your son and everything to do with you laughing 'at her', she probably felt embarrassed about it and realized how foolish 'she' looked chasing after a 4 year old.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

anony2 said:


> I would say that it had nothing to do with your son and everything to do with you laughing 'at her', she probably felt embarrassed about it and realized how foolish 'she' looked chasing after a 4 year old.


You are probably right. But I apologized to her and tried to talk it out with her and she shut me out. Don't know what to do now.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I guess I can kind of relate to your wife's situation... She probably isn't sure what boundaries she can assert and without your cooperation and feedback in the moment she was left feeling embarrassed and uncertain. Yes, she blocked herself off, but it may be due to hurt and feeling unsupported - it might not be a "tantrum". I don't know her, though. I think you should reinforce her when she attempts to assert herself and help her feel confident in her role...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

anony2 said:


> I would say that it had nothing to do with your son and everything to do with you laughing 'at her', she probably felt embarrassed about it and realized how foolish 'she' looked chasing after a 4 year old.


Beat me to it! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> I guess I can kind of relate to your wife's situation... She probably isn't sure what boundaries she can assert and without your cooperation and feedback in the moment she was left feeling embarrassed and uncertain. Yes, she blocked herself off, but it may be due to hurt and feeling unsupported - it might not be a "tantrum". I don't know her, though. I think you should reinforce her when she attempts to assert herself and help her feel confident in her role...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I absolutely agree, but I can't go back and not laugh now. I'm trying to move forward and address the situation before it really disrupts the house.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

dwaynewilliams said:


> I absolutely agree, but I can't go back and not laugh now. I'm trying to move forward and address the situation before it really disrupts the house.


Tell her that you think you should have supported her in the moment and *understand* how it left her feeling abandoned and unsupported. Actually, you might want to admit that YOU showing your own child that it was a "laughable" matter only *undermined* her authority to illicit some kind of discipline. Tell her you understand this and that next time you will be backing her up as a *partner*. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Tell her that you think you should have supported her in the moment and *understand* how it left her feeling abandoned and unsupported. Actually, you might want to admit that YOU showing your own child that it was a "laughable" matter only *undermined* her authority to illicit some kind of discipline. Tell her you understand this and that next time you will be backing her up as a *partner*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I already said this to her in my apology. No affect.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

This is interesting to me. It seems the women are ok with the wife ignoring the son to the point of him being confused and started crying. He is just 4 years old. I wonder how they would respond if it was a mother and her child, and the man was the one ignoring the child.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

FalconKing said:


> This is interesting to me. It seems the women are ok with the wife ignoring the son to the point of him being confused and started crying. He is just 4 years old. I wonder how they would respond if it was a mother and her child, and the man was the one ignoring the child.


It has become a common occurrence in my marriage that my wife can act in an immature manner but at the same time be upset with me about something trivial. Like I said before, she throws tantrums often about various things. If I call her out in it, she says I am being critical. I can't win. Or at least I feel I can't. But I'm getting exhausted with everything.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

dwaynewilliams said:


> It has become a common occurrence in my marriage that my wife can act in an immature manner but at the same time be upset with me about something trivial. Like I said before, she throws tantrums often about various things. If I call her out in it, she says I am being critical. I can't win. Or at least I feel I can't. But I'm getting exhausted with everything.


Sorry if I came off as harsh on my 1st post. Could she be jealous of the boy? Is this the 1st time she has treated him this way?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> Sorry if I came off as harsh on my 1st post. Could she be jealous of the boy? Is this the 1st time she has treated him this way?


Yes. It is the only time this has happened between them.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

The point isn't "winning", just so we're clear. To imply you need to "win" is implying that she needs to lose.

She may have some communication deficits, as might you... Mastering these is the key to harmony. I think more background history would be helpful, though... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

dwaynewilliams said:


> Yes. It is the only time this has happened between them.


Ok. I saw the word "Tantrums" in the thread title so that lead me to think otherwise.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> The point isn't "winning", just so we're clear. To imply you need to "win" is implying that she needs to lose.
> 
> She may have some communication deficits, as might you... Mastering these is the key to harmony. I think more background history would be helpful, though...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I say win, I mean I can't find a happy solution. Not trying to win the argument or prove a point.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Trust me, she is only 50% of the problem... You are the other 50%...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

You did the wrong thing. Never ever laugh and don't back up your wife. That would have been humiliating for her.

However don't allow her to treat your son like that, she's now also wrong. 

And the discipline of your son particularly when you are there should come from you. Other wise it's going to breed resentment eventually.

And one last thing... Why arent you and your wife sleeping together??? Why is your son sleeping with her? 
I think it's normal for all children to share a parents bed sometimes but it can interfere with intimacy as they grow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Trust me, she is only 50% of the problem... You are the other 50%...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

dwaynewilliams said:


> It has become a common occurrence in my marriage that my wife can act in an immature manner but at the same time be upset with me about something trivial. Like I said before, she throws tantrums often about various things. If I call her out in it, she says I am being critical. I can't win. Or at least I feel I can't. But I'm getting exhausted with everything.


I just imagine that if I came here as a man telling everyone I did what your wife did, people would not be telling me that my wife should do a better job of being supportive of me. And that she should make a better example of being a parent. I imagine everyone would be saying I overreacted and probably need some form of therapy because I was emotionally abusive to a child and may have anger issues. 

And after reading that quote it sounds like your wife doesn't want to admit that her reactions are not healthy. So if you are the one owning up to it being your fault doesn't that make you the enabler or something? She doesn't want to admit responsibility for her actions and you trying to be the bigger person relieves her of it anyway. So it's a vicious cycle, I suppose.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> You did the wrong thing. Never ever laugh and don't back up your wife. That would have been humiliating for her.
> 
> However don't allow her to treat your son like that, she's now also wrong.
> 
> ...


He is only with us every other weekend and has a hard time sleeping alone in his room. My wife told him he could sleep in the bed with us to make him feel comfortable. My wife also allows our daughter to sleep with us too. So you can imagine how crowded it can get. So on the weekends that my son is over, I sleep in another room.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I find that to be a little odd... How does your wife and son feel about the sleeping arrangements. Personally this would make me feel awkward and alone... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> I find that to be a little odd... How does your wife and son feel about the sleeping arrangements. Personally this would make me feel awkward and alone... :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like I said, it was her idea. I never believed in having the kids sleep in our bed. My son feels safer when he is sleeping with her so the two of them have no issues with the sleeping arrangements.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

It's just my opinion, and I'm no professional, but I forecast that this may cause long-term resentment and issues between the four of you over time.

How did it come about that she sleeps with your son and you don't??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> It's just my opinion, and I'm no professional, but I forecast that this may cause long-term resentment and issues between the four of you over time.
> 
> How did it come about that she sleeps with your son and you don't??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She invited him.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Why?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She wanted him to feel comfortable because he had a hard time sleeping alone.


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

I was looking for some advice on my situation. I don't really care who is right or wrong. I'm just frustrated and need to address the issue so that I can move on. So if anyone has any suggestions of how I can resolve this issue, I am open.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

And may I ask what you did, as the father, to confront and deal with the issue of him sleeping alone? I don't want to pull teeth here, but if you want others' opinions and advice, more self-disclosure would be helpful...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm not trying to pin anyone as right or wrong, but we all need a little more info if you want advice...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> And may I ask what you did, as the father, to confront and deal with the issue of him sleeping alone? I don't want to pull teeth here, but if you want others' opinions and advice, more self-disclosure would be helpful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not understanding where you are going with this and how it relates to the situation I initially posted but I will try to give you the information you are asking for. 

My son has always had an issue with sleeping alone. His mother, allowed him to sleep in bed with her every night. When he started to stay overnight with me, I tried to break him of this habit. I tried consistent bedtime routines, night lights, even sleeping in his room. But he would always wake in the middle of the night screaming for me. My wife finally asked me if he could sleep in our bed. I expressed that I thought it was a bad idea because we were still in the process of trying to get our daughter to sleep in her own bed. So that's how we ended up with my son sleeping in the bed with us. The dog also sleeps in our room.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I think your wife allowing the son to sleep with her was just the motherly nurturing side of her. I don't think she dislikes your son but I think she has emotional issues. It could indeed have something to do with the fact that your son from a previous relationship is involved in your lives together. She may have an issue openly expressing how she feels. So when things come out of her, they come out like that. Have you guys tried marriage counseling?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

FalconKing said:


> I think your wife allowing the son to sleep with her was just the motherly nurturing side of her. I don't think she dislikes your son but I think she has emotional issues. It could indeed something to do with the fact that your song from a previous relationship is involved in your lives together. She may have an issue openly expressing how she feels. So when things come out of her, they come out like that. Have you guys tried marriage counseling?


We have been in marriage counseling for the last two years and we have discussed the ex. She says that there isn't a problem but clearly there is.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I understand that your wife sleeping with your son as trying to put a temporary patch on a long-term situation. I think you also need your ex's corporation with this, if possible, to get him used to sleeping on his own.

My sister's two daughters frequently wake and scream for their parents through the night, and they've had their own rooms since they were a few months old. (Stating so that you understand it's most likely pretty normal).

Consistency is going to be a big theme here to resolve the issues...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't think the issue is that. I think the issue is how he is communicating with his wife. Also, I feel your wife is not being direct about how she feels.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

It's not personal, Falcon. I am merely trying to understand both sides. I certainly don't think anyone is "right or wrong" because they are both contributing to the issues...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> It's not personal, Falcon. I am merely trying to understand both sides. I certainly don't think anyone is "right or wrong" because they are both contributing to the issues...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I edited my post. I didn't like the tone of that. But still I don't think the son thing is a big deal. What kind of relationship did you and your have before marriage? Is she an open person on any issues. Does she have insecurity problems?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

FalconKing said:


> Yeah, I edited my post. I didn't like the tone of that. But still I don't think the son thing is a big deal. What kind of relationship did you and your have before marriage? Is she an open person on any issues. Does she have insecurity problems?


She does have issues with insecurity. But she is really good at discussing them with me. It doesn't stop her from acting immaturely, but eh does communicate them to me. Like I have said, she throws tantrums often and I have learned to deal with them, but what happened today was shocking. I would have never called it. And I don't know how to address it Because she definitely needs to understand that her behavior was intolerable. But I need to convey that while at the same time expressing to her that I will be there to back her up during discipline with our son. We don't have the discipline issue when it comes to our daughter.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Are her tantrums over small things? How often does she throw them? Are they violent or does she just shut off?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

FalconKing said:


> Are her tantrums over small things? How often does she throw them? Are they violent or does she just shut off?


The tantrums are for small and big things. She isn't violent. She just has meltdowns, says things that are really harsh, and if it is really bad, she will take off with our daughter and not tell me where she is going.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

That is not good! Hmmm..it sounds like your wife has deep rooted insecurities and when she feels not in control(meltdowns), she has to do extreme things to feel in control. If you ask her about how would she feel if you did the same things to her, does she skate the issue? What do the counselors say?


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

FalconKing said:


> That is not good! Hmmm..it sounds like your wife has deep rooted insecurities and when she feels not in control(meltdowns), she has to do extreme things to feel in control. If you ask her about how would she feel if you did the same things to her, does she skate the issue? What do the counselors say?


I have an interesting answer to that. It was brought up in one of our sessions that she exhibits features of borderline personality disorder and she totally flipped on our therapist. We haven't talked about it in therapy since. I personally don't think that she has BPD but there are finitely emotional issues there. She is very sensitive and if she feels hurt or discontented in any way, she wants to make sure you feel it as well. She isn't a bad person. She just does bad things and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with this current situation. I'm running out of energy though. But I can't be the one who falls off because if I do, it could be disastrous.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

dwaynewilliams said:


> I have an interesting answer to that. It was brought up in one of our sessions that she exhibits features of borderline personality disorder and she totally flipped on our therapist. We haven't talked about it in therapy since. I personally don't think that she has BPD but there are finitely emotional issues there. She is very sensitive and if she feels hurt or discontented in any way, she wants to make sure you feel it as well. She isn't a bad person. She just does bad things and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with this current situation. I'm running out of energy though. But I can't be the one who falls off because if I do, it could be disastrous.


Ahhh. It's a fine line to walk if she does suffer from BPD. Mine does. Luckily though she has come to terms with the fact she does have it and is trying to take steps to cope. I pray that yours doesn't have it. It's exhausting to deal with.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Then she tried chasing him around the treehouse. I made the mistake of laughing, but I thought the scene was hilarious. In front of him, our daughter, our neighbor, and the neighbor's kid, she yells out this is not her responsibility and that she wasn't going to do this anymore. He was my son, not hers. She stormed into the house.


Lol, I would laugh too, but I would make no apologies for laughing myself...

Personally whenever I get in a situation where I'm laughing when I shouldn't be laughing, I let the missus cool off for a time, but as soon as I feel the timing is right I crack the ice wall as fast as I can with humor or help her let it out by making her explode (cruel cruel)

If I was in your shoes I would have told my wife that I caught her on video on my phone  But my wife and I chase each other and wrestle each other often and sometimes we just need a reason to - so I guess it works for us...

Just have to find a way to crack the ice wall with your wife, different women have different 'cooling' systems, one could be a coffee, another could be apologies/listening to her, another could be sex, etc etc


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

You should not have laugh, I think you get that now.

But your wife behavior is completely unacceptable, to treat a small child, *any child* with coldness and neglect, is wrong!

Obviously she is mad at you, probably not so much with your son, but really she needs a reality check.


***Missed the BPD part, really you should try broaching this with her, therapy again, also compound the point that it is for her and your daughter that is she stable. Nothing screws up little girls like whacked out mom's, this I know.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Lol, I would laugh too, but I would make no apologies for laughing myself...
> 
> Personally whenever I get in a situation where I'm laughing when I shouldn't be laughing, I let the missus cool off for a time, but as soon as I feel the timing is right I crack the ice wall as fast as I can with humor or help her let it out by making her explode (cruel cruel)
> 
> ...


My husband does similar, and I have previously lost respect for him because of it.

I can't speak for all women, but for me a heartfelt apology works. Rather than the "I'm trying to smooth things over and make you forget that you're angry and not actually saying sorry" approach. That to me looks like a man who doesn't own it and can't deal with stuff. Not attractive.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

^^^^ This.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

Yeah dwayne, this is not a healthy situation. When she is calm and being reasonable, can you have a conversation with her about how her actions affect the others in the family - specifically the kids? Does she know that rejecting a child is harmful to their psyche and that their sense of trust will be harmed? Things like what she did can stick with a person for their lifetime. Yes, you could have handled the situation much better but she seems unstable. 

I know that you said that you two are in MC but is she in IC as well? You may have to have a serious discussion with her about that because frankly what she is doing is harmful to all of you. You are going to have to gather the right words and sit her down with you. Good luck!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I could be wrong, and I'm sure others will tell me so... But rather than be concerned over the wife's one-time "rejection" of his son, I'd be more worried about what could be perceived as a long-term rejection and/or possible lack of involvement from dad.

No, I don't know the whole story, and yes, they were both wrong, but I'm worried about the son is going to feel as he gets older. My own "father" and step-mother played the same games with myself and my siblings...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> I could be wrong, and I'm sure others will tell me so... But rather than be concerned over the wife's one-time "rejection" of his son, I'd be more worried about what could be perceived as a long-term rejection and/or possible lack of involvement from dad.
> 
> No, I don't know the whole story, and yes, they were both wrong, but I'm worried about the son is going to feel as he gets older. My own "father" and step-mother played the same games with myself and my siblings...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What game is he playing? I too didn't like sleeping alone at a young age. And i think the rejection is just an example of his wifes tantrums. I think what people are saying is that it is unacceptable that she reacts to the degree of playing mind games with a child. That really isn't a big deal to you? He stated that his wife offered to sleep with the boy. Also he sees his son pretty regularly. I don't want to cause some debate but it really does look like you are trying to minimize the wife's action and blameshift the OP in your post. You are always trying to say he has some fault to own up to. He really doesn't come off to me as some deadbeat dad. Can we just help the guy?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

He's the one asking for advice, and if he wants to improve things and understand why things happen the way they do then some examination of his contributions are relevant. I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on the guy - I honestly think he doesn't know any better, but he can't change his wife - only himself.

On a personal note, at that child's age I would be very hurt if I wanted to sleep with a parent because I didn't like sleeping alone and my bio-parent slept alone while I got the surrogate. That's just how I feel! I would think it would be better not to reinforce the idea of sleeping with an adult, than to leave one's child with a step-parent... I do get that wife "offered" to do this - perhaps because dad wouldn't? I don't know, I can't say...

I can't accurately address the wife's behavior unfortunately because I don't have her side of things. (And by the way, I am NOT exonerating her contribution, she did not handle the situation as she should have - but she was hurt and embarrassed and I "get" it).

I apologize if I've offended you guys... I am just trying to look at the entire situation. It doesn't appear that he and his wife are on the same page about raising his son...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yin, did you read the part where he said she was diagnosed with BPD?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Yes I did... But I guess now I'm confused about what OP wants - does he want advice on how to handle the situation or does he want sympathy?

If she has BPD I would be a little more sensitive to that, rather than laughing at her. He's sorry for it now, but unless he understands why he did it I only see more problems in the future.

I guess the facts that his son sleeps with his wife, and that he doesn't back her up when the child needs to be reprimanded have given me the impression he isn't as involved as he could be, for one, and for two, that perhaps his wife is feeling overwhelmed. Having done some very basic research on BPD's before, I understand that tantrums can be triggered. It's the BPD's to own the behavior, but one shouldn't "provoke" a BPD either, that's just as bad in my eyes. :/

Let me ask the OP - What exactly are you looking for here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

dwaynewilliams said:


> If you would have seen it you would most likely agree that it was a tantrum. She completely ignored me and him all night. Even when he would ask her for milk, she would pretend like he wasn't there and he would have to come to me. She closed herself and our daughter off int the spare bedroom so that me and my son would be separated from them.


A 4 year old being ignored by a grown woman/mother?
NO.

There will be times when you wont be there and she wil have to discipline him without you and then what? Say your not my kid m sick of taking care of you? This is very immature behaviour on her part. Being in a relationship with someone knowing that you arent the biological parent doesnt mean you have the right to throw that in the childs face or the fathers (in your case) face.

I really hope your child didnt hear her say that.
Bad enough that she did, i would have mad her sleep somewhere else besides the house that night. 
A child is a child regardless of the situation. They live what they learn and if she throws her little hissy fits around your boy like that often just because he gets a little out of hand hes going to pick up on the rejection and choose his words poorly too then thats going to make for an even worse relationship.

That really pisses me off though that she would just IGNORE the child like that. What did you say to her when she was acting childish like that?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dwaynewilliams said:


> It was brought up in one of our sessions that she exhibits features of borderline personality disorder and she totally flipped on our therapist.


Dwayne, it is quite remarkable that a therapist felt so strongly about her having strong aspects of BPD that he actually mentioned it to her. Therapists generally are loath to tell a patient the name of the disorder when she exhibits strong traits of high-functioning BPD. There are several reasons for that withholding of information but the primary one is that the HF BPDer almost certainly will quit therapy immediately.


> There are definitely emotional issues there.... but she isn't a bad person. She just does bad things


BPDers are not _bad people._ Rather, they are _emotionally unstable people_ whose strong fears distort their interpretations of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This could explain, then, why _"she is very sensitive"_ and she is very easily hurt when misinterpreting things you do or say.

BPDers also tend to be very vindictive and mean when they are throwing temper tantrums. It is not because they are "bad people" but, rather, because they do black-white thinking -- wherein they will flip (in only ten seconds) to perceiving you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This could explain why you say, _"If she feels hurt or discontented in any way, she wants to make sure you feel it as well." _

I agree with Joe, FalconKing, Mitchie, and Bkaydezz that your W's coldness toward your son was emotionally abusive. And I agree with you that it is shocking and intolerable behavior. But please do not interpret that to imply your W does not love your son. If she is a BPDer, such behavior does not necessarily mean there is no love. High functioning BPDers typically abuse the very people that love them and whom they love. In contrast, they typically treat casual friends and total strangers just fine -- because none of those people pose a threat of abandonment or engulfment.


> If I call her out in it, she says I am being critical. I can't win.


If your W has strong BPD traits, it nearly always will be impossible to reason with her on any sensitive matter -- and, as you've discovered, nearly every matter will become sensitive. A BPDer carries great anger inside at all times. She's been carrying it since childhood. She thus is only seconds away from releasing that anger. Hence, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor that TRIGGERS the anger that is always there. 

Importantly, it does not matter at all if you catch a BPDer in a calm, happy mood. Because her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) are quickly triggered, you are always ten seconds away from releasing a temper tantrum. Hence, in seconds, you will be reduced to trying to reason with the "inner child" that takes over her mind. This is why you probably walk on eggshells around her much of the time. And this is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.


> I personally don't think that she has BPD.


You may be correct, Dwayne. But, for the purposes of deciding whether to marry a woman -- or _remain_ married, as in your case -- it really does not matter whether she "has BPD." A woman whose BPD traits meet only 80% or 90% of the diagnostic criteria will be said "not to have BPD." But she will be nearly as difficult to live with as a woman whose symptoms meet 100% of those criteria. At issue, then, is whether your W has traits (above or below that threshold) that are strong enough to undermine your marriage and harm your son and daughter.


> When I say win, I mean I can't find a happy solution.


BPDers generally are not interested in _finding solutions_ but, rather, in _creating drama. _It is needed to validate their false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."


> It has become a common occurrence in my marriage that my wife can act in an immature manner but at the same time be upset with me about something trivial. ...she throws tantrums often about various things.


Temper tantrums lasting several hours -- triggered in seconds by a minor thing you say or do -- is one of the hallmarks of a person having strong BPD traits. Behaving in a childish, immature manner is another hallmark (because a BPDer's emotional development typically is stuck at the level of a four year old). Yet, if your W actually does have such traits at a strong level, you should be seeing a number of other red flags too. 

I therefore suggest you read my description of these red flags in Maybe's thread to see if they sound familiar. My post is at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources written by professionals. Take care, Dwayne.


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## wifehubby (Jan 28, 2012)

My advice for the co-sleeping is the following. Go sleep with the child in their bed and then get out of the bed at night (after that time time normally wakes up to scream). You could perhaps do this in phases. I think times are tough enough for kids and when they're sleeping they're feeling vulnerable and it maybe really scared so while I am not fan of coddling and would work on the child's independence by speaking to them and convincing them and encouraging them, rather than imposing it (at least for a while).

Eventually, offer them a reward for sleeping alone but still reassure the child that you are just across the hall or w/e and you are for them. Explain to them that everybody has their room so they're comfortable. I think a lot of positive reinforcement helps here....

For the wife issues, this sounds like my wife for the past 10 years. You do something wrong (laughing at here) and your apology is not accepted. 

At the same time she can't accept any criticism. I believe its due to a lack of confidence. If you can apologize for something you did it means you have the confidence to recognize it doesn't make you a bad person but for people with low self-confidence I think they feel like by apologizing they are putting themselves down. The solution is their confidence. The problem is that you just happen to be the person who has to deal with her for the tense issues and stuff. My only bandaid solution has been to get a mediator to sort help us solve specific issues....

My 2 cents, things aren't going well for myself anyways so hopefully it isn't the blind leading the blind.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I think you are all missing the point

His wife pulled the pouting silent treatment on a four year old kid. And it confused the child enough to make him cry!

Regardless of why she is angry, she is being juvenile in taking out her frustrations on an innocent child. 

All children act out. That's how they test boundaries and learn social skills. Obviously, the wife is lacking in her own social skill development. 

This had nothing to do with co-sleeping. Heck, my daughter is 8 and sometimes at night she will crawl into bed with me. Is this an issue? No. I'd rather her feel secure than scared. 

This has everything to do with the wife's juvenile behavior of her own. 

Honestly, I would treat this as one big sh$t test. And the earlier post is correct. I would call her out on
It and tell her that me and my son is a package. Then I would proceed to tell her to grow up. Seriously. She's an adult. And this is one of those situations where you just don't pu$$yfoot around the problem. You tell it how it is. Apologize for laughing, but lay the test on the table. Time to roll a hard six. And damn her reaction. If she can't comprehend how juvenile her own behavior is, then she needs to be told.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> I think you are all missing the point
> 
> His wife pulled the pouting silent treatment on a four year old kid. And it confused the child enough to make him cry!
> 
> ...


That's the point some of us have been trying to make. But it just seems like some of the women are advocating he should just apologize to his wife and try not do it again. It's a bit bigger than that. And also, that to me says that his wife's behavior is a product of what he does. That's not fair to him. Also, he said she has these tantrums often and that was just an example of one. I honestly feel like in reading these responses some of the women aren't really trying to acknowledge the wife's behavior as a big deal. And instead trying to change the subject to his son's sleeping arrangement as someway to blame shift him as way to maybe rationalize that this is somehow his fault as the husband. He clearly said he needs help with his wife tantrums. They got a shovel and dug up that about the son's sleeping and focused on that. Saying how he should be a better father. Because of that?! I just really feel the need to stand up for this guy.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Falcon, you are absolutely correct!

My fear in all this is that his wife has BpD

The behavior fits the bill. The solution? I have no fkn clue.

OP. all these tantrums are sh$t tests. Assuming your wife did not have BPd. Unfortunately, I'm no expert on BPD behavior and wouldn't even have a hot clue in hell where to start in helping you deal with these tantrums. 

Perhaps another poster with experience dealing with BPD spouses may chime in.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Pidge or Joe, maybe?

As someone who has some BPD traits - (Not diagnosed), I would offer more but I feel my opinions and questions aren't really appreciated anyways.

I wish the best to OP and his wife and children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> That's the point some of us have been trying to make. But it just seems like some of the women are advocating he should just apologize to his wife and try not do it again. It's a bit bigger than that. And also, that to me says that his wife's behavior is a product of what he does. That's not fair to him. Also, he said she has these tantrums often and that was just an example of one. I honestly feel like in reading these responses some of the women aren't really trying to acknowledge the wife's behavior as a big deal. And instead trying to change the subject to his son's sleeping arrangement as someway to blame shift him as way to maybe rationalize that this is somehow his fault as the husband. He clearly said he needs help with his wife tantrums. They got a shovel and dug up that about the son's sleeping and focused on that. Saying how he should be a better father. Because of that?! I just really feel the need to stand up for this guy.


My only reasoning for bringing up the sleeping issue is that the child might actually feel abandoned by his father. Even OP admits that he does little in the way of nurturing and leaves that responsibility to his wife. That is not okay - whether she is BPD or not! Even worse if he KNOWS she has BPD and doesn't step in!

No, she was wrong for what she did... She was punishing her husband and not the child - but she used the child as punishment - that is NOT RIGHT in my eyes... But "Dad" isn't completely off the hook, either.

I want to help OP understand how his wife feels and encourage him to engage more with his son. If I'm wrong for that, well then sue me. Nothing wrong with asking him to step in and take charge when his wife is acting/behaving or *is* incompetent in this matter. She ignored them throughout the night - fine, let her pout, but I wonder why his son doesn't come to him primarily when he wants or needs something.

I may be biased, but my real father pulled this crap when he remarried his mistress... I'm only trying to lend perspective and get to the meat of the matter. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

I get it. But honestly, what if were a woman that came here who was saying the same thing about her husband? Would you be saying she is 50 percent of the problem and questioning her as a mother? Would we be saying she just needs to apologize for that behavior and try not to do that to her husband? I think not. I think we would assume she did as much as she could as a mother and a wife. If we knew her husband and her had been in marriage counseling, we would assume she feels exhausted with her situation and at her wits ends. But we would also assume she is trying everything she could to keep her marriage. I don't think we would be saying how she obviously made this huge mistake by laughing at her husband and it's perfectly understandable he did that.

I'm just trying to give this man that same benefit of the doubt!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> Pidge or Joe, maybe?
> 
> As someone who has some BPD traits - (Not diagnosed), I would offer more but I feel my opinions and questions aren't really appreciated anyways.
> 
> ...


Yin,

You offer great advise, and I respect your words.

In this instance, I think the focus shifted too much from the real issue.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> I get it. But honestly, what if were a woman that came here who was saying the same thing about her husband? Would you be saying she is 50 percent of the problem and questioning her as a mother? Would we be saying she just needs to apologize for that behavior and try not to do that to her husband? I think not. I think we would assume she did as much as she could as a mother and a wife. If we knew her husband and her had been in marriage counseling, we would assume she feels exhausted with her situation and at her wits ends. But we would also assume she is trying everything she could to keep her marriage. I don't think we would be saying how she obviously made this huge mistake by laughing at her husband and it's perfectly understandable he did that.
> 
> I'm just trying to give this man that same benefit of the doubt!


If it were a woman saying the same thing I would absolutely ask the same questions and try to dig deeper in the matter! No ONE person is 100% of their relationship issues... I don't care who or what you are - it's called "co-dependence" and it can't happen with just one person. How do I know? I am co-dependent!! 

For the record, I have not said that OP should just apologize and "try not to do it again" - I am actually trying to help him feel empowered in this situation by giving him the perspective that there is something he can do, other than be a victim.

Why would I say this? I've played the victim card for many years! (In some ways I still do)! It's called letting go of that persona and taking responsibility for the things you do, and DON'T do.

Would I say OP has 'tried everything he could to keep his marriage'? In this situation? No. I don't believe that happened. He "could" have taken many other courses of action... 

Honestly, if he feels that she isn't doing a good enough job of step-parenting I would think he needs to re-evaluate his role in all of this - as the bio-parent.

I'm not trying to be hard, but offer perspective. I'm not perfect. Hell, I'm far from it and I'm not afraid to admit it. The difference is, I now take responsibility for my part and no one else's. And no one is a victim. No one wins or loses... We're all playing the game together.

If that rubs people the wrong way, well, I'm not going to apologize. Anyone can chose to ignore me or my statements. I don't have a personal stake in this guy's marriage. I just badly feel for his son. I knew at one time what it felt like to be in this situation. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dwaynewilliams (Feb 1, 2010)

The next morning my wife came to me to explain her behavior. She went on a long rant about how she felt disrespected by my son and that she doesn't think that she can discipline him. The rant lasted about 15 minutes. I just listened. I wasn't pleased with what she said, but I did feel that it was necessary to hear her out. Initially in all this, she told me she wanted to be like a mom to my son. That made me happy. She wanted to treat him as we do our daughter and she wanted to be able to discipline him as well. I thought that was a great idea. So when this situation arose, I let her finish what she had started. I normally do the discipline with both children. I am a very nurturing father as well. For Yin who questions by ability as a father, I would say that I believe I am a good father and do the best that I can. I'm not perfect, but I do try hard.y son favors my wife for reasons unknown to me, but it is something that pleases me. I'm glad he gets along with her so well and is close to her. I wouldn't want it any other way. To continue the story, later that day, she asked me what I had to say about the situation. I told her simply that I was disappointed in her action. I can understand why my laughing frustrated her, but she shouldn't have responded like that in front of the kids and the neighbor. I told her that we needed to work on that. She agreed and said that she avoided us the night before because she was embarrassed by her behavior and didn't know what to say or do. I can respect her feelings, but sometimes her behavior can be problematic. Whether my wife has BPD or not, I do and will always live her and want to be with her. But it gets frustrating having to deal with these meltdowns. I'm sure over time, I will learn how to respond to them better. But for now I just wanted some advice to get me through. We discussed the situation again in couples therapy. It really helped that night just to talk to someone about it. Even if it was just on a forum. And I thank everyone who contributed. It means a lot.


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