# How Should I Tell Him?



## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Hi, 

I'm not sure what info is relevant to receive advice so ask me about anything I've left out. 

I want to tell my bf that I want "better" sex. He has less of a desire than I do but really tries to accommodate my need for frequency. I don't want to squash those efforts in the least. However, he's one that loves PIV and a little kissing, but not really sharing in oral and definitely ignores my sensitive, pleasure-enhancing nips. Further, he comes rather quickly which would be no problem at all if other things were attended to either before or after. It's been a long time since I've had an O with him.

Here are some potential issues creating the dynamic, in my opinion:
1. fear of intimacy from an emotionally difficult upbringing then a traumatic divorce
2. is very cerebral and is in his head a lot, eyes closed during sexy time
3. was a successful PUA before marriage and never had to try hard to please partners
4. is a little selfish and lazy, God love him  

I don't want to create anxiety for him, nor make him feel inadequate, but I am a very sensual person with a lot of desire and I want, maybe even need, more. Even he suggested that my love language is really sex with touch and QT being equal in importance.
I believe he wants to make me happy so I think it may come down to my approach. Maybe not. 

In any case, I'm listening. Thank you.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I think it would be helpful to know a couple of things about your relationship.

1) How long have you two been dating?

2) You said he is a little selfish and lazy. Is that in general or just with sex?

3) You mentioned he is cerebral. Is this in general or just with sex?

4) What's his personality like? Is he open to exploration and trying new things, or is he kind of set in his ways? Is he humble or prideful?

5) Is he sexually dominant? IOW, does he take the lead when it comes to sex or is this something you typically do?


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Lila said:


> I think it would be helpful to know a couple of things about your relationship.
> 
> 1) How long have you two been dating?


2 years


> 2) You said he is a little selfish and lazy. Is that in general or just with sex?


Generally speaking. He can be very giving, thoughtful, and motivated, but it's sporadic.


> 3) You mentioned he is cerebral. Is this in general or just with sex?


It's how he exists daily. 


> 4) What's his personality like? Is he open to exploration and trying new things, or is he kind of set in his ways? Is he humble or prideful?


I think he has a pretty good balance of knowing/liking himself with knowing he has to reach out to accomplish things or be fulfilled or to fulfill. 


> 5) Is he sexually dominant? IOW, does he take the lead when it comes to sex or is this something you typically do?


I try to let him initiate for... reasons. I have come out and said, "I need the sexy time sometime today" and he'll make it happen. Although once we start, he's really taking the lead for the most part, which more often then not is him telling me to climb on. (not that I don't love that)


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

pumpk1n said:


> ...I want to tell my bf that I want "better" sex. He has less of a desire than I do but really tries to accommodate my need for frequency. *I don't want to squash those efforts in the least.*
> 
> However, he's one that loves PIV and a little kissing, but *not really sharing in ora*l and definitely i*gnores my sensitive, pleasure-enhancing nips.* ....It's been a *long time since I've had an O with him.*
> 
> ...


A couple of quick comments.

First you have some pretty strong negative opinions about your guy. You might want to do some introspection and make sure that you really love this guy. If you have reservations about him and you have been with him as you say a couple years, he may just be smart enough to pick up on your negative feelings about sex with him.

You are wise to not want to rain on his parade of emotions, but your body language, facial expressions, etc. may have already done that.

If you can loose any negative feelings you have toward him you will be in a much better position to ask him to stretch his comfort level.

The guy went through a traumatic divorce. This could be a big factor in what you are facing. You might want to talk to him about what he sees in you that is different from the woman he divorced. Then after he has told you what is different, ask him what fears he has about you and if there are any things you do that remind you of his ex? If he actually does tell you hold your breath, smile and remember you are not her. Then tell him that you appreciate his honesty and that you don't want to be like her in any of the negative ways.

My next suggestion is to get him a Christmas present, such as one of the Sinclair Institute better Sex Video's or a book like Morgasms. In the card say that you love sex with him and as his girlfriend you want to have something the two of you can watch/or read so you can explore his fantasies or desires so you can be the best girlfriend he has ever had. Tell him that the present is so that you can change yourself and how you pleasure him (that will be less threatening to him, especially if you mean it). Then listen to what he has to say when the two of you read/watch whatever it is you got him. Find out what his ideal form of sex is. Really try to understand his desires and meet them, as you say he is trying to accommodate yours for frequency.

You need to understand that you really can't change him. You can change yourself and you can reinforce things he does differently that you like, but you need to get it out of your head that you can force him to change. He is the only one who can change himself.

One of the interesting things about any relationship is that it is all about negotiating things, acts, etc. that both can accept. For example, as much as I would love oral, my wife has made it clear that oral (giving or receiving) is absolutely off the table for ever, no matter what, even thought prior to marriage she promised me she would. I can either accept that, divorce her, our pout in a corner. This is a grid lock issue I have had to accept. 

One of the things I have learned from the Gottman's in their relationship workshop is that if I want to negotiate a grid lock issue with my wife, I have to understand her reasons and be able to articulate them as well or better than she can, before I should try to negotiate a change with her. That means that I need to really listen to her carefully and understand her reasons, even if they don't seem like good reasons to me. It s till may not work (as my wife and I still aren't going to do oral), but at least you will have tried.

Can you explain why your BF doesn't like oral as well or better than he can? Do you believe and accept his reasons. In negotiations you don't shout down someone's reasons, you explore the edges and see if there might be something along the edge that you both would be happy with. If you absolutely have to have oral from him, will using a dental dam solve his problem and give you enough pleasure? Would you be willing to have him wash you down there prior to going down on you so you are clean and fresh? Did his ex do something that traumatized him when he went down on her? Does he have some moral reason against oral? It would be hard to initiate such a conversation without cover of say a book or video that raises the topic without seeming too obvious in what you are asking, which is why I suggested a book or video.

In order to negotiate change you need to be willing to change what you are asking of him and willing to do for him as well. 

Since he is a fan of Chapman (as am I) and the two of you know that touch and QT are your love languages, what are his secondary love languages? Are there foreplay or sex things that you could do that would feed his love languages? 

Say he is a "presents" person, could you put on some lingerie and put a bow about your bottom and tell him that you want him to unwrap his extra special Christmas present? 

Say he is a "touch" love language guy, could you sit on his lap, run your fingers through the hair on his head and rub your breasts against him so you get the breast stimulation you claim to desire prior to sex and he gets the touch without sex that makes him feel loved and cherished? The idea is to figure out something that is win/win for the both of you where you use his love languages to make him feel loved in a way that he likes and wants.

Since he is a cerebral and you are into nipple stimulation, could you tell him about an article you read where nipple stimulation released oxytocin in women and that it is often used to induce labor in pregnant women to aid in uterine contractions. Then tell him that in non-pregnant women it also when released can induce both stronger and multiple orgasms in women. Then tell him that some men release oxytocin when their nipples are stimulated and it induces stronger orgasms in men. Then look him in the eyes, kiss him and tell him that the next time the two of you have sex you want to play with his nipples to see how he reacts. Then tell him if he lets you, you will let him play with yours, but only after you have played with his.> Maybe this kind of mutual play will appeal to him and by showing him how it might improve his sexual experience, he will be willing to see what it does to yours. (You might also get that O you seem longing for.)

Also if you want him to do oral on you, what have you done to gradually build up to it? One of the things that Schnarch suggests in introducing new sex acts is to start slowly and break the sex act down into parts that can each be sucessfully mastered before you try the whole thing. Have you ever given him a HJ then licked your hand in front of him and told him how delicious you think he tastes and how much you would love to taste more of him? Have you ever touched yourself and gotten your fingers wet with your own scent and maybe rubbed them on your lips and kissed him and told him how good his lips tasted? Break it down into pieces and see where you get any resistance, see what he is willing to do, reinforce positive behavior and build upon or reinforce positive results. 

One of the intimacy things that David Schnarch suggests in his book the Passionate Marriage is eyes wide open kissing. It is actually too intimate for most people. So his eyes closed during sexy time, may indeed be a fear of intimacy or just normal inhibitions. 

There is also an interesting experiment discussed in a NYT article on how to make someone fall in love with you by artificially pushing intimacy and then ending the series of 36 questions and answers with 4 minutes of looking deeply into each others eyes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/fashion/modern-love-to-fall-in-love-with-anyone-do-this.html?_r=0

You sound like you basically love this guy, but are struggling a bit. Sex should be fun an playful without stress and fear of performance failure. Talk to him and find out what he wants and what he fears and remember that lack of technique on his part could be part of the fear.....a fear of his being a failure in your eyes.

Good luck!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

pumpk1n said:


> I want to tell my bf that I want "better" sex.


He has to take his focus off of his orgasm (and your orgasm). Play a game called "how long can you go without an orgasm?" Make bets with serious consequences, challenge each other to a few days, each person is allowed to tease the other, first to orgasm looses!

In other words it is a fun game to fail at!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I would say "Honey, I don't want this coming across the wrong way, but you need to get better in the sack. You know nothing about my erogeneous zones and you are a lazy lover. I hope you can learn to be a better person."

Direct approach works best. Use your own words if you think I was beating around the bush too much.


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I would say "Honey, I don't want this coming across the wrong way, but you need to get better in the sack. You know nothing about my erogeneous zones and you are a lazy lover. I hope you can learn to be a better person."
> 
> 
> 
> Direct approach works best. Use your own words if you think I was beating around the bush too much.



Whoa 
He's a wonderful person, salt of the earth. 
The words selfish and lazy are from his mouth as we've navigated what I consider a very precious relationship. 
Why such venom? 


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You could find porn that includes what you like. There are allegedly "female friendly" sections on most porn sites. Also tumblr has bazillions of porn blogs with images and gifs which can sometimes be better. You can even start you own tumblr blog (he doesn't have to know it's yours) and curate what you like. Then you can walk through it with s glass of wine and make up stories. Tell him it gets you hot. It's a way to introduce the acts you like and tell a story about "her" in the image or gif and "him". "Ooooh I love the way he touches her nipples so gently..."


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw the way tumblr works is you give your blog a name then search and click to "reblog" the image or gif or text or video on your blog. Add tag world like nipple or tongue or whatever subtle words you want and when you pull up an image you want to show, you can click the tag and all images with that theme will show. So you can compare and use that as a means to show what you find sexy


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> A couple of quick comments.
> 
> First you have some pretty strong negative opinions about your guy. You might want to do some introspection and make sure that you really love this guy. If you have reservations about him and you have been with him as you say a couple years, he may just be smart enough to pick up on your negative feelings about sex with him.
> 
> You are wise to not want to rain on his parade of emotions, but your body language, facial expressions, etc. may have already done that.


I try to be sensitive, but I'll watch for that just in case. 




> The guy went through a traumatic divorce. This could be a big factor in what you are facing. You might want to talk to him about what he sees in you that is different from the woman he divorced. Then after he has told you what is different, ask him what fears he has about you and if there are any things you do that remind you of his ex? If he actually does tell you hold your breath, smile and remember you are not her. Then tell him that you appreciate his honesty and that you don't want to be like her in any of the negative ways.


Interesting. We've talked some, but couldn't hurt to find out more.



> My next suggestion is to get him a Christmas present, such as one of the Sinclair Institute better Sex Video's or a book like Morgasms. In the card say that you love sex with him and as his girlfriend you want to have something the two of you can watch/or read so you can explore his fantasies or desires so you can be the best girlfriend he has ever had. Tell him that the present is so that you can change yourself and how you pleasure him (that will be less threatening to him, especially if you mean it). Then listen to what he has to say when the two of you read/watch whatever it is you got him. Find out what his ideal form of sex is. Really try to understand his desires and meet them, as you say he is trying to accommodate yours for frequency.


I feel like he would see right through this approach and not appreciate the subterfuge. So I won't be getting that sort of present, but I can absolutely ask him what he wants. I'm nothing if not flexible and eager to please. 



> You need to understand that you really can't change him. You can change yourself and you can reinforce things he does differently that you like, but you need to get it out of your head that you can force him to change. He is the only one who can change himself.


I feel like if I can express my needs (again) in a way that is not naggy or emasculating, he will want to attempt to meet me somewhere in the middle.



> One of the interesting things about any relationship is that it is all about negotiating things, acts, etc. that both can accept...
> 
> ...Can you explain why your BF doesn't like oral as well or better than he can? ...
> ...In order to negotiate change you need to be willing to change what you are asking of him and willing to do for him as well.


He professes to love oral. He seems willing to do it when I've been too long without.



> Since he is a fan of Chapman (as am I) and the two of you know that touch and QT are your love languages, what are his secondary love languages? Are there foreplay or sex things that you could do that would feed his love languages?


Those are my love languages. His are words of affirmation and acts of service. I am very vocal about my affection, admiration, and desire for him in addition to other supportive comments that he may need. As far as acts of service, I take very good care of him in that way. It used to get him to want to be more giving in bed, but the returns are diminishing. 





> Since he is a cerebral and you are into nipple stimulation, could you tell him about an article you read where nipple stimulation released oxytocin in women and that it is often used to induce labor in pregnant women to aid in uterine contractions. Then tell him that in non-pregnant women it also when released can induce both stronger and multiple orgasms in women. Then tell him that some men release oxytocin when their nipples are stimulated and it induces stronger orgasms in men. Then look him in the eyes, kiss him and tell him that the next time the two of you have sex you want to play with his nipples to see how he reacts. Then tell him if he lets you, you will let him play with yours, but only after you have played with his.> Maybe this kind of mutual play will appeal to him and by showing him how it might improve his sexual experience, he will be willing to see what it does to yours. (You might also get that O you seem longing for.)


He knows more about such things than any lay person should. But it might be interesting to see if he'll let me play with his nipples. :grin2:




> You sound like you basically love this guy, but are struggling a bit. Sex should be fun an playful without stress and fear of performance failure. Talk to him and find out what he wants and what he fears and remember that lack of technique on his part could be part of the fear.....a fear of his being a failure in your eyes.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you very much for input!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

your not compatible in the bedroom. time to move on or accept a lack luster sex life the rest of your time with him.

cut your losses and don't settle. don't settle for someone who your not compatible with in any area. 

good luck.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Just a thought, but you said he was a bit of a PUA in a former life.

Maybe sex and relationships aren't necessarily meshing here.

He likely knows exactly what to do in bed (this comes from experience), but perhaps he subconsciously doesn't want to reach into his bag of tricks with you, the person he loves.

It's possible he doesn't want to view you, or sex with you, the way he did with "random girl #34".

Madonna/***** syndrome, I think is what they call it?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

alexm said:


> Just a thought, but you said he was a bit of a PUA in a former life.
> 
> Maybe sex and relationships aren't necessarily meshing here.
> 
> ...


Didn't know what PUA meant but now I see based on alexm's post.

Definitely this unless you were led to believe he had this past and it wasn't true. How do you know this about him? Tat will help.

If it's true, then he probably either had a look or type that he would go after (not you) OR he wants to put you on a pedestal and differentiate you from those girls.

If it's the former and you can capture some of that style you may bring this out in him. Could be a look (get a wig and role play), clothing style (boots!), orientation (submissive). I know it sounds shallow but we can all be that way and have a "type" trigger something.

If it's the latter, you may need to respond differently (submissive or dominant positions like on your knees vs ???)

None of these are subtle so I get that trying this would be obvious, but the point is still there - if the PUA is in there you might need to let him know it's ok to come out.

It's also possible he liked the rep but was talk not action.


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Btw the way tumblr works is you give your blog a name then search and click to "reblog" the image or gif or text or video on your blog. Add tag world like nipple or tongue or whatever subtle words you want and when you pull up an image you want to show, you can click the tag and all images with that theme will show. So you can compare and use that as a means to show what you find sexy


I did this mainly for this very reason; so my bf can see what turns me on and what I'd like to do to and with him. No nagging, no big "talks", just a fun sexy way to share what's on your mind (and his).


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

I brought up the Madonna/Wh0re thing to him over a year ago because before we were a couple, we had a super hot online relationship off and on for over a year. In it he would call me deliciously degrading names and I did whatever he wanted, kind of a D/s thing but not officially (well before the fifty shades hoopla) that I would absolutely resume if he wanted. It did not translate IRL. 

In the PUA phase (all the days before his engagement) which I believe he truly went to bed with at least a hundred women, he told me he was confusing sex for love. Possibly because he witnessed his mother have many men while growing up while not showing him much attention nor affection. Anyway, he said that no to the M/W thing, that it's fear of intimacy and that I should be patient. Could he be wrong? 
I would really like to know what kind of partner he was because I assumed that he was not very sensuous.

His type? This part kind of gets to me, I'm not quite his body type. He's an ass man. My booty is respectable, I go to the gym to plump it up, but it does not look how all the butts that get so much attention these days, the main issue being the hail damage. And while I'm slim, I have stretch marks from belly button to bikini line. It's a shame because I have a full rack that miraculously doesn't sag, and a good hip to waist ratio. Haha, as you can tell I have huge insecurities about my body lately that I'm working on, doing the positive self-talk when I worry about my attractiveness to him. Also, the type of porn he likes includes older men with girl-ish types. As far as how I dress, I let him pick clothes and shoes for me and I buy things I think he'll like and I wear my hair the way he likes. 

As for tumblr, it has been banned from our relationship. 

You guys have given me a lot to think about and to possibly speak about with him. Thank you for reading. 
I still need an opening line. Not, "we need to talk" lol
And it may not even happen for a bit because he's stressed at work lately. 
@chillymorn I want to make sure he understands my needs clearly and then see if he's interested in rising to the occasion before moving on. He is a rare creature and I love him very much. I'd like to keep him if at all possible.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think sexual suggestions to a partner should always be positive. "I'd love it if you would do ABC to my XYZ". Its possible that he really doesn't know what you enjoy. 

If he doesn't care about pleasing you, that is much more difficult to fix.


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

Have you tried sexting? This way you could describe to him what you'd like him to do to you when you get home (or vice versa). You could use as much detail as you think is necessary. Would he participate in the back and forth? Or at least encourage you to share with him in that way?


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think sexual suggestions to a partner should always be positive. "I'd love it if you would do ABC to my XYZ". Its possible that he really doesn't know what you enjoy.
> 
> If he doesn't care about pleasing you, that is much more difficult to fix.


"Darling, I would love it if we would spend more time touching, kissing, and giving each other oral pleasure before you stick it in." lol 

Yes, I agree that this approach is probably better received than if I said that I'm unhappy with our sexy time. But how can I be positive while at the same time sharing that him showing no interest in my pleasure is a deal breaker? :|


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
If he really doesn't seem interested in pleasing you, that is a more serious problem. Has he always been like that?




pumpk1n said:


> "Darling, I would love it if we would spend more time touching, kissing, and giving each other oral pleasure before you stick it in." lol
> 
> Yes, I agree that this approach is probably better received than if I said that I'm unhappy with our sexy time. But how can I be positive while at the same time sharing that him showing no interest in my pleasure is a deal breaker? :|


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

SARAHMCD said:


> Have you tried sexting? This way you could describe to him what you'd like him to do to you when you get home (or vice versa). You could use as much detail as you think is necessary. Would he participate in the back and forth? Or at least encourage you to share with him in that way?


We used to exclusively text. We didn't meet each other until we knew each other online for a year and a half. Much of it was sexting, the bestest, most arousing sexting ever, nearly bringing me to O without me even touching myself. That dwindled rather quickly once we became an exclusive couple. 

Sexy things are low on his priority list, which is ok by me when it comes to sexting, but when it comes to quality IRL sex...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow this is quite a puzzle...

Could you - at an intimate moment but in a public place (to add to the thrill a bit) - whisper that you were thinking of a particular naughty and degrading online romp you had, "where to told me I was a little x$&6dgr and a $&&7? who could take..." (you get the drift) "... and it got me so hot I had to [sexy phrase for masturbate] right now in the bathroom stall. You think you can put me in my place when we get home??"

Idk kind of the direct indirect approach. You have actual hot history (that a lot of guys here now hate your H for getting  ) do can you exploit it?


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> If he really doesn't seem interested in pleasing you, that is a more serious problem. Has he always been like that?


I will say this: he is very good at protecting himself. His walls are coming down though and I appreciate that so much.

I do think he is interested in pleasing me which is why I'm going to broach the topic before thinking we don't belong together. 
I have been reluctant to say what I'm thinking and feeling because I wonder how demanding and/or picky I am being. Are my sexual proclivities fluid? Am I a brat? Is it sane to break up with someone because of mediocre sex with whom I have feelings for that I've never felt before? Also, he tries hard to be a wonderful bf and I don't want to drain his energy with frivolity. 

The conclusion still is that I need to say something, anything less the forthrightness in this situation will be poison to both of us and our relationship. If it ends over this, it would be for the best. I guess.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> It's been a long time since I've had an O with him.


I'd start by telling him THAT. Then give him a copy of "She Comes First" and "Sheet Music." He's cerebral; maybe he'll read.


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

norajane said:


> I'd start by telling him THAT. Then give him a copy of "She Comes First" and "Sheet Music." He's cerebral; maybe he'll read.



Ouch, seems harsh to lead with that. 
And yes, he's a voracious reader when he wants to figure something out. 

Have you read those books? I've not heard about "Sheet Music."
I posted this in the thread about "She Comes First" 


> I read a review that mentions that the philosophical part was actually helpful. I wonder if it would help someone who believes that their "performance" has to do with how long they last during PIV as opposed to... other things.


If he's interested in reading I might recommend. 


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Wow this is quite a puzzle...
> 
> Could you - at an intimate moment but in a public place (to add to the thrill a bit) - whisper that you were thinking of a particular naughty and degrading online romp you had, "where to told me I was a little x$&6dgr and a $&&7? who could take..." (you get the drift) "... and it got me so hot I had to [sexy phrase for masturbate] right now in the bathroom stall. You think you can put me in my place when we get home??"
> 
> Idk kind of the direct indirect approach. You have actual hot history (that a lot of guys here now hate your H for getting  ) do can you exploit it?




I could absolutely do that. However, it would seem out of place since things haven't been remotely close to that kind of interaction in bed. 

Don't hate lol 
TBH, I'm having to come to terms that he misrepresented, or something, unintentional or not. I *think* I understand what happened but isn't that person still in there? 


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

It's not harsh; it is the truth and is the reason why you want to bring this up. You need to get through to him that sex that does not lead to orgasms for you is not a satisfying sex life for you. He needs to know the truth or he won't take this seriously. "Sweetheart, I haven't had an orgasm with you in a long time. Can we talk about how to change that?"

You don't really think you can stay with a guy forever who isn't interested in how you feel about your sex life and about having orgasms, do you? Better to be honest about your sexual needs NOW instead of telling him when you walk out because you can't stand the frustration and one-sided sex anymore.

Flip the script - what if he hadn't had an orgasm in a long time with you, and you were the only one who had orgasms and then rolled over and fell asleep? You think he wouldn't say anything about that in very clear terms? You think he wouldn't tell you that he's not having orgasms and that's unacceptable?


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

norajane said:


> It's not harsh; it is the truth and is the reason why you want to bring this up. You need to get through to him that sex that does not lead to orgasms for you is not a satisfying sex life for you. He needs to know the truth or he won't take this seriously. "Sweetheart, I haven't had an orgasm with you in a long time. Can we talk about how to change that?"
> 
> You don't really think you can stay with a guy forever who isn't interested in how you feel about your sex life and about having orgasms, do you? Better to be honest about your sexual needs NOW instead of telling him when you walk out because you can't stand the frustration and one-sided sex anymore.
> 
> Flip the script - what if he hadn't had an orgasm in a long time with you, and you were the only one who had orgasms and then rolled over and fell asleep? You think he wouldn't say anything about that in very clear terms? You think he wouldn't tell you that he's not having orgasms and that's unacceptable?



Ok, yes to this. Thank you for the rewrite. 
Except that I can meet him halfway, I love quickies too. Just...
Not. Every. Single. Time. 


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

pumpk1n said:


> Ok, yes to this. Thank you for the rewrite.
> Except that I can meet him halfway, I love quickies too. Just...
> Not. Every. Single. Time.
> 
> ...


Sounds like what my girlfriend at 16 would have told me... 

Mostly tongue-in-cheek there, but with a little dose of reality. Wondering if he treats sex the same way he did when he was 16, 17, whatever?

TBH, I didn't figure out the whole sex thing until I had a partner who was willing to show and tell, and say "nope, not doing it for me, why don't you try this?"


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

pumpk1n said:


> ....I feel like if I can express my needs (again) in a way that is not naggy or emasculating, he will want to attempt *to meet me somewhere in the middle.*
> 
> .....Those are my love languages. *His are words of affirmation and acts of service.* I am very vocal about my affection, admiration, and desire for him in addition to other supportive comments that he may need. As far as acts of service, I take very good care of him in that way. It used to get him to want to be more giving in bed, but the returns are diminishing.
> 
> He knows more about such things than any lay person should. But it might be interesting to see if he'll let me play with his nipples. :grin2:.....


A couple more thoughts.

My experience is that rather than saying I want you to change and meet me in the middle, you may be much more successful if YOU change first so that you move to the middle first. While not a good "power struggle" negotiation ploy, this is about love and lovers negotiating. It was when my wife saw a different me and was convinced it was a different me, that she became willing to change. You mileage may vary, but what do you have to loose?

As to love languages, I did a variety of chores around the house without being asked in the hopes that my wife would think of them as acts of service. She didn't, she viewed them as my FINALLY picking up my share of the chores and even though it was much more than half, she felt it was justified on the basis of her view that I hadn't done enough for many years.

In the spirit of an MW Davis, 180, I kept doing the chores and tried other things until I found "acts of service" that she really appreciated and made her feel loved. My advice to you is to examine your acts of service that you do your your guy and figure out if he views them as acts of service or something else.

For me the key was did it make my wife feel loved, special and cherished. It had absolutely nothing to do with whether I thought they were loving acts as long as they were given with love and no expectations. That is why my bringing my wife coffee in bed, first thing in the morning, combined with her other love language quality time by talking as we wake up and the evening ritual of helping her with dinner, which she views as her domain and I am not to get in the way. (Each weekend she plans all the meals of the week, buys all the food to make them and hell is paid by me if I have a meeting and can't make it home for dinner or if I come home and cook something --even if it with the food she bought ----to lighten her load.) I can help, I can make the salad exactly like she has written up or better yet volunteer to be her sous chef and cut and prepare ingredients for her to assemble and cook. Then after she has prepared everything, bring her a glass of wine and talk about her day and the lovely meal she has prepared.

You might want to explore rituals that involve you performing acts of service and words of affirmation for him. Keep trying different things as your 180's until you find some that work.

Finally, as to the nipple stimulation. He may have been penis unattached that was enjoyed by dozens and dozens of women, but he still might not know as much about sex as you give him credit for. By that I mean that while he may have great moves and have refined them to an art-form, there still may be gaps in his knowledge. 

In fact since he has had so many different women he has probably had more than his share of horrible sexual experiences. He may be more scarred and scared of some things sexual then he lets on. 

two final thoughts. First harness the power of visualization and affirmations. As him what he imagines his wife will be like at the age of 55, at the age of 75. Ask him what he wants to do with his wife after they have been married for 20 years and get him to pain a verbal image. Then talk to him about that image, but in a way where you put yourself front and center in his vision of the future.

The last thought is something sex therapists do and that is to have a couple who are very experiences to describe their three most intense and three most romantic sexual experiences (not necessarily with each other). While this could make you feel uncomfortable, it could also give you insights into what really turns him on and melts his heart. It can also give you and opportunity to "own" that memory by preparing for it and recreating it at an appropriate time but in a way that was superior to what he had originally experienced.

Good luck. I wish you the best.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OP, the fact that you are reluctant every time someone suggests just laying it out there for him makes me think you are going to have more trouble with this than you bargained for. You need to be assertive and learn that doing so is not cruel. In fact, it is far more cruel to allow him to continue to disappoint you without telling him more directly what you are thinking. You are setting yourself up for more and more resentment.

In one post you said he told you he has a fear of intimacy. Did he elaborate on this? I'm just curious on that point, though I don't think it will give you any clues into his laziness even if he did.

You can have an assertive talk and express your needs that are not being filled without being mean, making threats, or making him feel inadequate. However it sounds like you need some work on your own communication skills before you can do that. Google "how to have difficult conversations" and things like that and see what you come up with.

Bottom line: this will NOT get better without him understanding that you are unfulfilled.

And even then, it still might not get better. You need to be able to fairly evaluate if you are willing to continue in an unfulfilling sexual relationship.

And NO it isn't insane to break up due to an unfulfilling sexual relationship, it is instead quite mature and shows self-awareness. If he cannot meet your needs, this will end up being an extremely depressing relationship for you for as long as it lasts.


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> A couple more thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> My experience is that rather than saying I want you to change and meet me in the middle, you may be much more successful if YOU change first so that you move to the middle first. While not a good "power struggle" negotiation ploy, this is about love and lovers negotiating. It was when my wife saw a different me and was convinced it was a different me, that she became willing to change. You mileage may vary, but what do you have to loose?


I'm game I just don't know where the middle is in this situation. 





> As to love languages, I did a variety of chores around the house without being asked in the hopes that my wife would think of them as acts of service. She didn't, she viewed them as my FINALLY picking up my share of the chores and even though it was much more than half, she felt it was justified on the basis of her view that I hadn't done enough for many years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This makes a lot of sense. I basically take care of his house, laundry, dishes, and such while I'm over there but I recall getting more appreciation from him when I help him with projects. 
I don't understand the 180's thing though. 





> Finally, as to the nipple stimulation. He may have been penis unattached that was enjoyed by dozens and dozens of women, but he still might not know as much about sex as you give him credit for. By that I mean that while he may have great moves and have refined them to an art-form, there still may be gaps in his knowledge.


Because of this and what @alexm said about that one partner who was willing to show him what works 
I think that my first plan of action will be to make more specific requests while in bed. If he complies, I will express my appreciation and that I need those things on some sort of regular basis. If he refuses... 





> In fact since he has had so many different women he has probably had more than his share of horrible sexual experiences. He may be more scarred and scared of some things sexual then he lets on.


I've never thought of this possibility. 





> two final thoughts. First harness the power of visualization and affirmations. As him what he imagines his wife will be like at the age of 55, at the age of 75. Ask him what he wants to do with his wife after they have been married for 20 years and get him to pain a verbal image. Then talk to him about that image, but in a way where you put yourself front and center in his vision of the future.


This sounds very practical for all aspects of our relationship. Although, it will be a slightly different script since we're both marriage-shy. 





> The last thought is something sex therapists do and that is to have a couple who are very experiences to describe their three most intense and three most romantic sexual experiences (not necessarily with each other). While this could make you feel uncomfortable, it could also give you insights into what really turns him on and melts his heart. It can also give you and opportunity to "own" that memory by preparing for it and recreating it at an appropriate time but in a way that was superior to what he had originally experienced.


An advanced exercise for sure. I'll save this one for after I deal with a couple of the basics. 





> Good luck. I wish you the best.


I thank you so much for the thought and time you've devoted to my request for help.


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> OP, the fact that you are reluctant every time someone suggests just laying it out there for him makes me think you are going to have more trouble with this than you bargained for. You need to be assertive and learn that doing so is not cruel. In fact, it is far more cruel to allow him to continue to disappoint you without telling him more directly what you are thinking. You are setting yourself up for more and more resentment.


I'm definitely on board for what @norajane suggested. I thought the other guy was being an azz, although I don't know why. 





> In one post you said he told you he has a fear of intimacy. Did he elaborate on this? I'm just curious on that point, though I don't think it will give you any clues into his laziness even if he did.


Two things : he grew up without intimacy and it's just not a comfortable place for him and he doesn't want to give too much of himself because of damage caused by his exw. 





> You can have an assertive talk and express your needs that are not being filled without being mean, making threats, or making him feel inadequate. However it sounds like you need some work on your own communication skills before you can do that. Google "how to have difficult conversations" and things like that and see what you come up with.


I am a wonderful communicator... Except for this exact thing lol. 
Thanks for the wake up call. I will do the google! 




> Bottom line: this will NOT get better without him understanding that you are unfulfilled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Of course I'm worried that this will end up being what ends us, but I have to try. 

Thank you for the validation and the great suggestions.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

pumpk1n said:


> ....I don't understand the 180's thing though. .....


In a relationship that is having a problem, you know what doesn't work. A 180 is trying something much different to see if it produces a different result.

For example, if I were to always trying to initiate sex and not getting sex, maybe I should try not initiating sex for a while. Alternately I could initiate just hugs, or just holding each other without trying to have sex. 

Another example, say you want your guy to do something specific and your method of doing that is taking his hand and placing where you want it and moving it like you want him to and he doesn't follow through, then maybe another approach would be better.

A 180 in such a situation could be your doing what you want done via masturbating in front of him, so he can see how turned on it makes you and want to get in on the action.

Or, as others have said maybe a frank talk with him would be the 180 that works.

It could also be a sex video of what you want him to do, where he sees it instead of being told or instructed by you.

The idea behind 180's is to try different things, until you find what works or something that works a little bit. Then with the things the work, even if just a little bit, do some theme and variation so that you triangulate in on what gets the correct response you want from your significant other.

Have you ever read a book on pet training or conditioning? To a certain extent we are all like Pavlov's dogs and can be conditioned to respond to certain things. BF Skinner is quite famous for conditioning. Marriage or serious relationships involve a degree of conditioning where you condition him and he conditions you. 

Sometimes, past conditioning performed on him by past girlfriends or wife becomes your and his challenge to modify, which might be your situation. He might not even know he has been conditioned to respond in a certain way. Then again, he does sound like he understand some of the damage his ex did to him.

Again, Good luck.


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## pumpk1n (Dec 16, 2015)

intheory said:


> Uh-oh. If he has his eyes closed during sex, that means he's thinking of something to stay turned on (not you); especially since he's "cerebral". That's a very natural escape for cerebral people to take.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask him what he's thinking of when he's got his eyes closed. If he trusts you enough to tell you; that would probably bring you guys much, much closer.



LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU 

Well, phuck. I NEVER thought that and now I have anxiety. 
Couldn't it be that he's just feeling it? Or maybe trying to not come because it feels so good? He has PE.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your relationship has been mostly online. Online relationships like what you had do not translate well into real life relationships. There is a reason that he chose such a relationship... it's a way to avoid real intimacy.

Now that the relationship is in real life, he has another way of avoiding intimacy.

While communicating your thoughts and feelings to him is good, I am not sure that trying to change him to be who you want him to be is going to work.

He is simply who he is. Accepting a person who they are is paramount in a relationship.

It does not mean that you have to accept an unsatisfying relationship. You have choices. The two of you are not compatible sexually... not in real life anyway.

I can understand take a bit of time to see if he responds well after you tell him the way you really feel about your self life. But if he does not respond, accept that he is who he is and move on if you cannot live with the sex life you have right now.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

My wife always closes her eyes when we kiss and have sex. I've told her recently I love to see her eyes and she might try a bit but not for long. Same with a bj but she claims it is awkward for her.

I'm not at all concerned by this - it's how she is in the moment and nothing more. Whike I would like to see her eyes FOR ME it's really only my thing.

Don't forget it may be in his head too - maybe he's afraid unconsciously of disapproval too.

You could also assume that a cerebral person might be overly aware of his own failings. Maybe he thinks he should have a six pack and more angular jaw 

Don't over analyze something like this. Could be anything. Better to ask than assume.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

People with intimacy issues sometimes think of someone/something else during sex because to think of their partner or to focus on what is actually happening would breach their level of comfort for intimacy. It is easier for them to not become too intimate if there is something else going on in their heads during actual intimacy.

However, it may not be that at all. It could very well be him thinking of baseball so he doesn't go off, because as you said, he has PE.

A great sex life includes being able to talk very openly and honestly about sex and specifically, about the sex the couple is having...or not having, and why aren't they having it. Talking about sex should be as easy as talking about making vacation plans or something else fun and exciting.

If you want to be with him long term, begin now working toward that type of open, fun, easy communication.

Just know that with intimacy issues like what you are describing, it sometimes won't be possible for a person like that to have the kind of sex you are asking for. And know this isn't your fault nor does it have to do with his desire or love for you. It is something within himself, and he may or may not overcome it. If he can, then after some initial conversations and "home work" after those conversations, you should start to see some small improvements.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Oh also...is there anyway you can bring the sexy texting back into your relationship? And I mean the really hot hot HOTTT stuff you described before. That would be a great first step, even if you have to lead the way. Obviously, it was something he was really good at, and it was at a level of intimacy he could handle. So you know it is in him and within his reach. Just have to tap back into it, and then hopefully spread it out into the rest of your sex life together. You could even try to re-establish this before you initiate any difficult conversations.


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