# Wife "has no desire" for sex after her affair



## jefe123

We are currently almost 3 months post Dday. It's been a tough period. I was caught completely off guard when confronted with overwhelming evidence. She eventually confessed and we agreed to work on things. 3 weeks later something didn't feel right so i hired a PI and caught her walking out of work with the OM. They got into her car chatted for a bit and then left. I am positive it was a PA before Dday and fairly sure the physical part stopped after Dday, though the emotional part continued until the PI spotted them. I called her that morning and said that was enough, i had been lied to enough and it was over.

SInce that time, she has been completely into the R. Her attitude has changed, shes more affectionate, accountable and seems to be taking all the steps to aid in our R. She had previously said IC wasn't for her and she didn't want to go. I was not happy about that, but persuaded my self that i could live with it and we continued on. She got a new job 2 weeks ago and i was ready to fully commit to the R. I sat her down and told her so. I said i was ready to resume the marriage i had put on hold after DDay no2. She was happy about that, but when i brought up the topic of sex, she said she just had no desire. Not sex with me, the OM or anyone. Just was in a weird situation where she wasn't wanting it at all. I did not take this well. I'm dying for intimacy with my wife and she didn't have sex with me for the last 5 months of her affair, always having excuses which i bought because she was breast feeding. 

Now she has agreed to go to counseling after i told her that A)her having no ideas about what led to the affair/why she started it. She said we had a happy marriage before it started, and B) why she doesn't want sex. I told her those two things were deal breakers for me. That long term, me now knowing why we are in this situation will cause it to happen again. And i have gone long enough without sex from my wife while she was giving it to someone else. I was done waiting. 

I told her i would wait temporarily while she went to counseling. But not forever.

Has anyone seen this behaviour before? Does she not want sex with me because she still is thinking about him? i have access to everything i know about, as far as i can tell, the A is over. She seems happy to have ended it and like a weight was off her shoulders due to the deception. IDK if thats true or not. I just am perplexed with this sex issue. I thought we would be on a path to R after the job change. I now feel we are moving backwards. 

ANy advice?


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## GusPolinski

When's the divorce?

ETA: DNA the kid.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TX-SC

For many women, libido is strongly tied to emotional closeness. I suspect her emotions are in flux right now.


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## ButtPunch

TX-SC said:


> For many women, libido is strongly tied to emotional closeness. I suspect her emotions are in flux right now.


This! Right now she loves the other guy. 

So sorry.


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## weightlifter

What TX-SC said.
Find a time limit and stick to it for the sex part.


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## Bananapeel

Are you serious??? She gets to have sex with whomever she wants, when she wants, where she wants and you are supposed to be celibate while she works on things. Awesome.

So let me do you a favor and give you the answers to what you want her to discover during her counseling sessions (she already knows the answers but doesn't want to tell them to you). 

A. She had the affair because she liked the attention, had the opportunity, and thought she wouldn't get caught. She's probably had affairs in the past that you don't know about which is why she isn't trying that hard with you. 

B. She doesn't want sex with you because she's still thinking about the OM. She still wants him and you aren't him so you don't awaken her sex drive. She resents you for catching them and ending her fantasy which also is killing her sex drive. 

You'd do a lot better by thinking about what YOU WANT and whether she is meeting YOUR NEEDS. Stop letting her control your relationship and decide for yourself whether she is wife material or not.


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## badmemory

jefe123 said:


> I am positive it was a PA before Dday and fairly sure the physical part stopped after Dday, though the emotional part continued until the PI spotted them. *I called her that morning and said that was enough, i had been lied to enough and it was over.
> *
> *SInce that time, she has been completely into the R.* Her attitude has changed, shes more affectionate, accountable and seems to be taking all the steps to aid in our R.


What happened between the time you said it was over and you being back in R? Your line in the sand erased, no consequences for her cheating, and you demonstrating that you are afraid to divorce her.

Of course she doesn't worry about withholding sex from you.

That simply means she's not remorseful. A truly remorseful wife would "fake it till she made it" in the bedroom if she truly valued her second, or I should say, third chance. She doesn't.

Start the divorce process, then see if she turns around. If not, finish it.


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## straightshooter

My friend, her explanations to you are bull ****. Unless she is physically ill, there are only two explanations possible for having no libido, which was not her problem with the other man

(1) it is still going on behind your back, and do not discount that possibility because of anything she says
(2) she is still "pining" for him and emotionally feels she is cheating on him by having sex with you.

So lets take what to do in case it is #1. Tell her you need her to take a polygraph test to prove she is not still at it and that she has not taken it further underground. Her reaction will tell you a lot. And given that you had to hire a PI to catch her the second time, you ought to do the damm test.
If she is still in this so called "fog" grieving the loss of her boyfriend, a quick cure for that is a set of divorce papers to make it REAL for her. You can stop the divorce at any time you want to, but she makes her buying time to mourn her loss a much more dangerous for her activity. 

Telling her things are deal breakers and not following through on it is bad. It tells her what most women think in todays marital environment. If you asked ten of her girlfriends and told them what she has done, more than half would tell her just to buy time and you will get "over it". You need to dispel that notion in her mind.

She has been caught twice. She should be begging you to give her another chance and denying you sex is not the way to go about it. She knows how to spread her legs. She needs to be doing it for you.


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## barbados

she doesn't want sex with you because she wants sex with OM.

She's TT'ing you and outright lying to you. She is in love/lust/fog with OM.

And she is having an affair while she is breast feeding ? Real classy there. 

Divorce and have the kid DNA tested.


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## bandit.45

The affair is still going on. Start sleuthing.


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## Lostinthought61

curious is the other man married? and did you expose any or all of this to others?


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## VladDracul

I'm going to elaborate on the above. I goes well beyond her not wanting sex with you because of the other guy. She doesn't want sex with you because she's lost interest and respect for you. Women typical loose interest and have "mental" affairs where they rationalize it before actually doing the deed.
Now that she has the hots for the other guy, and I agree with others and would bet money she's still banging his brains out if/when she gets the chance, she has lost all desire for you and probably detest contemplating have you "touch her" in that way. Hence the reason she's only playing along on the marriage counseling.
Remember, when a woman has a high romantic interest in you, its easy for her to stay loyal. And she is staying loyal to the boyfriend.


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## Steve1000

bandit.45 said:


> The affair is still going on. Start sleuthing.


That was not my first thought, nor my 2nd thought..... but it should have been. :|


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## PhillyGuy13

She is saving herself for when she is back with the other man. 

Or is still with other man.

Find a lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> When's the divorce?
> 
> ETA: DNA the kid.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And as well as the DNA, get an STD/HIV test for yourself ASAP. At this point avoiding sexual contact with her might be a good way to not risk your health.


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## becareful2

You handled it all wrong. There has been no consequences for her destroying the marriage, so why should she respect you? You have been so desperate to win back a cheating wife that you jumped straight to R.


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## caruso

Bananapeel said:


> Are you serious??? She gets to have sex with whomever she wants, when she wants, where she wants and you are supposed to be celibate while she works on things. Awesome.


I didn't read anywhere that she can continue to have sex with anyone whenever she wants where she wants and he has to wait around and be celibate while she works on things.

I did read how she's committing herself to fixing what's broken and she's starting counseling. 

Since there's only one post by the Op I cannot fathom where you came up with any of that.

I do agree with the above poster that you did not handle this aggressively and she very well may be of the impression that she can do whatever she wants with whomever she wants. No doubt she's lost a great deal of respect for you due to your inaction in regard to her affair.


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## WorkingOnMe

So, you saw her coming out of work with the OM. Does she work with him? If so, you can't even think about reconciliation until she quits her job. No contact is mandatory. Also, for the record, reconciliation hasn't started until there's plentiful sex. Even though you think you're in reconciliation, you're actually in limbo.


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## Satya

becareful2 said:


> You handled it all wrong. There has been no consequences for her destroying the marriage, so why should she respect you? You have been so desperate to win back a cheating wife that you jumped straight to R.


This is it precisely. You let her get away without MC. You forfeited your own best chance to teach your wife to confront what she did and to help you, the hurting spouse, heal.


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## tech-novelist

*Most women* can only be sexually interested in one man at a time. Thus, when a woman has an affair she is, *as a general rule*, no longer interested in her husband sexually (and may not have been for some time).

Such women are "being faithful" to their new sex partner, so having sex with their husbands seems like cheating. And why would they cheat with someone that they have no sexual interest in?

Divorce is the answer, unfortunately, in most of these situations.

Sorry you are here.


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## straightshooter

How about a recap OP. Hope you are still around and sorry if you are not hearing what you want to. An old saying on these forums is to pay attention to the opinions that sting you the most because they are probably correct. Have you noticed the trend here.???

A bunch of strangers who do not know each other from Adam have pretty much all come to the same conclusions in different terms.
(1) you do not know the truth
(2) you are not in anything that resembles reconciliation
(3) you are in rugsweeping and ostrich mode

Now if you can afford a PI you can afford to do a whole bunch of **** to either nail her and catch her again or prove that she is at least telling you an abridged version of the truth.

Next move is your my friend. Standing still is not an option. When you stand still you are in reality going backwards.


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## jefe123

So what consequences should I give? I don't want to be divorced, but I don't want to be walked on either. Should I give her a time frame for counseling? One month and if things haven't changed I see an attorney? 

I have tested the kid. It's mine. I agree she hasn't faced much consequences. Fortunately this is something I'm new at. Sucks I'm going through it.


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## TAMAT

Jefe,

You are in the very early stage of recovery, it takes 2 to 5 years, the only place where people chuckle about an affair and get over it like it was a stomach ache is in a sitcom.

It's likely your WW is still in love with the OM, think of an affair as a very powerful addiction, that's the most likely reason, she doesn't want sex with YOU. One of the other side effects of an affair can be an intense hatred or repulsion towards their spouse.

Was the OM spouse or girlfriend informed, and the OM family work facebook linkedin, etc. Exposing the OM widely and suddenly without warning or threats will cause him to call it out completely with your WW. 

Yes DNA test and a Polygraph for your WW.

Tamat


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## WorkingOnMe

jefe123 said:


> So what consequences should I give? I don't want to be divorced, but I don't want to be walked on either. Should I give her a time frame for counseling? One month and if things haven't changed I see an attorney?
> 
> I have tested the kid. It's mine. I agree she hasn't faced much consequences. Fortunately this is something I'm new at. Sucks I'm going through it.




100% no contact, even if she has to quit her job. Exposure. At least to her family. Counseling.


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## caruso

One thing you can do, and really should do is don't make it so certain for her.

Tell her you don't know if you'll take her back even if she does everything "right".

Tell her you need alone time to figure it out and she's gotta find somewhere else to live until you do.

That sort of thing. It's more about attitude than anything else. It's all about putting yourself first and putting her at a distant second, like she did with you when she was having sex with the other guy.


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## becareful2

Expose the affair to her former place of employment if the OM still works there. Expose the affair to the OM's wife or girlfriend. Get the name and other contact info from your wife. Have a meeting of the two sets of in-laws and tell your wife to confess and apologize to them. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know on whether to file immediately or not. Expose the affair to your close friends. She must surrender all her passwords and log-in info to all her social media sites including emails, Facebook, etc. Again, her reaction will tell you a lot.

Ask her to take a polygraph and watch her reaction. You might get a "parking lot confession" before she goes in to take the test, but do it anyway. Some of the questions may include: how many partners has she cheated on you with, is she in love with the OM, is she saving herself for the OM, etc.

Tell her to get some books to read. Don't remind her and see if she's serious about R or if she's just putting in minimum effort:
"His Needs, Her Needs"
"How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair"

I forget the exact titles of the books, but the others can help you with that.


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## Fozzy

jefe123 said:


> So what consequences should I give? I don't want to be divorced, but I don't want to be walked on either. Should I give her a time frame for counseling? One month and if things haven't changed I see an attorney?
> 
> I have tested the kid. It's mine. I agree she hasn't faced much consequences. Fortunately this is something I'm new at. Sucks I'm going through it.


Exposure to family/friends for sure, along with marital counseling. I won't weigh in on a time limit for sex because I'd rather eat glass than have sex with someone who didn't want it with me. Whatever you decide, just remember that for this to work, SHE needs to be chasing YOU, not the other way around. It's her responsibility to convince you to keep her.


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## PhillyGuy13

I didn't pick up on it the first time, she cheated on you soon after giving birth to your child? 

Deplorable.

I would have issues with trust. Two D-Days tells me she didn't even give a damm the first time she got caught. Often after getting caught a wayward spouse will be so scared of losing their spouse they will quit the Other cold turkey. Your wife going further underground tells me all I need to know about how little she respects you - and your baby. I'm glad she took another job after D/Day 2 but unless she now works on the International Space Station that doesn't mean squat at this point.

She has faced zero consequences. File for divorce. Divorces take many months to finalize, and in that time maybe she can clean up her act and be a better wife and mother. If it was me, after two D-Days and then withholding sex, I'd be done with her. I would prefer to make do with my right hand as a single guy, minus the hassle of being married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Archangel2

I suggest you look at the posts by @Road Scholar. He went through something similar to yours, and (as of May, 2016) was still struggling.


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## jsmart

jefe123 said:


> We are currently almost 3 months post Dday. It's been a tough period. I was caught completely off guard when confronted with overwhelming evidence. She eventually confessed and we agreed to work on things. *3 weeks later something didn't feel right so i hired a PI and caught her walking out of work with the OM. They got into her car chatted for a bit and then left.* I am positive it was a PA before Dday and *fairly sure the physical part stopped after Dday*, though the emotional part continued until the PI spotted them. I called her that morning and said that was enough, i had been lied to enough and it was over.
> 
> SInce that time, she has been completely into the R.Her attitude has changed, shes more affectionate, accountable and seems to be taking all the steps to aid in our R. She had previously said IC wasn't for her and she didn't want to go. I was not happy about that, but persuaded my self that i could live with it and we continued on. She got a new job 2 weeks ago and i was ready to fully commit to the R. I sat her down and told her so. I said i was ready to resume the marriage i had put on hold after DDay no2. She was happy about that, but when i brought up the topic of sex, she said *she just had no desire. Not sex with me, the OM or anyone*. Just was in a weird situation where she wasn't wanting it at all. I did not take this well. I'm dying for intimacy with my wife and *she didn't have sex with me for the last 5 months of her affair, always having excuses which i bought because she was breast feeding. *
> 
> Now she has agreed to go to counseling after i told her that A)her having no ideas about what led to the affair/why she started it. She said we had a happy marriage before it started, and B) why she doesn't want sex. I told her those two things were deal breakers for me. That long term, me now knowing why we are in this situation will cause it to happen again. And i have gone long enough without sex from my wife while she was giving it to someone else. I was done waiting.
> 
> I told her i would wait temporarily while she went to counseling. But not forever.
> 
> Has anyone seen this behaviour before? Does she not want sex with me because she still is thinking about him? i have access to everything i know about, as far as i can tell, the A is over. She seems happy to have ended it and like a weight was off her shoulders due to the deception. IDK if thats true or not. I just am perplexed with this sex issue. I thought we would be on a path to R after the job change. I now feel we are moving backwards.
> 
> ANy advice?


After Dday 1, you felt in your gut that something was still wrong, so you hire a PI and he finds her getting in OM car to "chat?" because PI couldn't see any action in the car doesn't mean she didn't "service" him. 

She cut you off because she's being loyal to her boyfriend. The majority of women are not emotionally able to have sex with more than 1 man. Once your WW gave herself to OM, she was through with you. Just because she changed jobs doesn't mean they can't get together for a weekly lunch BJ or backseat quickie.

This OM was defiling your wife while she was breast feeding? This POS probably had his mouth on and probably shot off on her breast that were still feeding your child. The mouth that would probably service him during lunch breaks came home to kiss your child. Damn your wife is VILE.

If your wife was willing to so quickly have sex and thereby risking her baby's security then you know she doesn't love or respect you. I'd bet that they're just laying low until the dust settles to restart. 

You decided to R WAY TO FAST and she has suffered no consequences. Her refusing to IC and having to be begged for MC tells me she wants to do the bare minimum to appease you. A truly remorseful wife, would be allowing you to claim her back through at least a week straight of hysterical bonding sex. But you're still cut off. That means she's still his girl.


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## Tatsuhiko

Jefe, you should consider filing for divorce right now. The process can always be stopped along the way if she comes to her senses. Filing now will send a message that you mean business.


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## Quality

There's no way to know for certain but your wife quitting her job with OM and getting a new job by itself is a good indication she's actually ended the affair. However, even though it seemed to end a little while ago on or after DD2, you didn't actually obtain "no contact" until the day she actually left the old job. She's still in withdrawal and depressed. Affairs are artificial fantasy highs. Her mind has been going 100 mph for 5 or 6 months with anxiety and stress {afffairs aren't all good times}. Keep snooping to confirm but absent proof of continued contact I'd guess she's just going through withdrawal {with maybe a little post partum thrown in ~ how old is the baby}.

As others have pointed out ~ women are more generally sexually attracted to a singular person and wayward wives therefore develop an aversion to their husband that helps them rationalize and justify having an affair. Sometimes the aversion lasts a while and though your wife mentally wants to recover and she knows what's best for her and your baby, emotionally she's just not there yet. You pointed out yourself that things are coming along with more affection and accountability. So I would suggest you have some patience and understanding. It's not a matter of OM got sex and now she must give me sex. If you are in this to rebuild a loving marriage, then talk to her in a calm manner and communicate about these issues. Also, get a new cologne and shower gel. Smell different. 

As far as understanding WHY your wife did it. She probably doesn't know yet and the WHY? just doesn't matter. She did it because she wanted to. Because the OM filled some unmet emotional need of hers she may not have even understood she needed coupled with poor boundaries around men. Your wife just had a baby. There are lots of hormones racing through her body and mentally she was just the size of a beached whale. OM might have flirted with her and made her feel sexy and instead of being offended, her boundaries were lacking and she liked and appreciated the flirting. OM made her feel good about herself at what's greatly understood to be an emotional and hormonal valley after having a baby. It's a common time for women {and men} to be at risk/succumb to the temptation of adultery. Doesn't make any of it right or ok and you are within your God given rights to divorce her; however, recovery is very possible and actually quite likely if you achieve "no contact" and commit to a marital recovery plan of some kind. I'm recovered nearly 2 decades and have many recovered friends.

Punishing her, giving her ultimatums or filing for divorce because she's not ready to have sex with you would be foolhardy IF you want to recover. 


Also ~~ if and when she does have sex with you again {probably pretty soon} please recognize that she's just not that into it and don't make the mistake of trying to make it super romantic and significant. Many reconciling couples can go through a period of hysterical bonding but the sex isn't truly all that intimate. It will start out probably more like duty sex. Doesn't mean you don't do it; but just recognize she's coming along and making progress. You are better off trying to make it goof around fun sex than super serious 'making love' but that's just a suggestion. Recovery is a process. It's totally not fair but it is what it is.


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## straightshooter

Jefe,

You just m are this statement

"I do not want to be divorced".

No ****. Most people that are married would make that statement. But the fact is it does not really matter what you want unless she wants the same thing, which at this time you have no valid verication of.

Books have been suggested to you. But since you are still in shock and paralysis I'll save you some time and tell you what just about ALL of them say
(1) verifiable NO CONTACT with OM. That does not mean she tells you she will stop meeting him and flirting with him at work all day. It means what it says and the minute you allow her to stay in that job with him you are right there greatly reducing your chances to get this resolved. No "being friends" with him. Nothing and no negotiations.
(2) next on the list is TOTAL TRANSPERANCY. That means that she voluntarily and without pouting turns over every password on every electronic device she owns. Now understand I said voluntarily!!!. If you have to coerce her that does not become acceptable. And you also need to understand this in itself does NOT mean anything because we all know how easy it is to set up another e mail or app on the phone. It is her WILLINGNESS and desire to do it to make you feel safe that is what you are looking for. She should want you to know where she is, she should want to be accountable for letting you know if she is going to be late or not where she is supposed to be, and she should not be feeling this is "punishment". It is a consequence of being a liar and cheater.

Now you can waste your time on MC but understand. All of the books say the more a WW resists the above and fights it the greater the chance she is either still in the affair or will be again when she gets the opportunity. 

Back to the sex. Understand this. Women fall into two categories when they cheat
(1) COMPARTMENTALIZERS- are able to carry on a double life and act perfectly normal with their husbands. Their affair is just a thing they do for fun and they think they will not get caught. What hubby does not know will not hurt him. They love their husbands and have no intention of leaving.
(2) NON COMPARTMENTALIZERS- this is where your wife falls. They need to do something to kill their attraction to their husband, pick fights with him, enhance all his faults, in order to justify in their minds what they are doing. Therefore, they are entitled to be happy because hubby is not meeting their needs. You have to be smelly, dirty, and not worthy of cheating on their boyfriend with.
These types are easier to catch once you listen to your gut, which apparently you did.

The question now is what is your plan. As long as she gets up every day and spends 8-10 hours around this OM that she has broken NC with as well as slept with, her atttraction to you is not coming back. It is too easy for them to have opportunity to get away with it.

If she stays in that job and you do not demand a polygraph you will be in limbo for a long long time, and my guess is most of us responding to you would put money on you having yourself another D Day. 

You have to decide

DO YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF INFIDELITY OR STAY MARRIED AT ALL COSTS????

She believes it is the latter and until that changes she is in control.


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## Marc878

jefe123 said:


> We are currently almost 3 months post Dday. It's been a tough period. I was caught completely off guard when confronted with overwhelming evidence. She eventually confessed and we agreed to work on things. 3 weeks later something didn't feel right so i hired a PI and caught her walking out of work with the OM. They got into her car chatted for a bit and then left. I am positive it was a PA before Dday and *fairly sure the physical part stopped after Dday, though the emotional part continued until the PI spotted them. *I called her that morning and said that was enough, i had been lied to enough and it was over


Not a chance. You're in denial. She had plenty of sex with OM that's why you weren't and aren't getting any. You're in a false R. 

It'll manifest itself later at some point. You want to make sure it's over tell OM's wife and their work. Don't be afraid of pushing her away she's already gone you just don't want to see it.


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## Quality

jsmart said:


> After Dday 1, you felt in your gut that something was still wrong, so you hire a PI and he finds her getting in OM car to "chat?" because PI couldn't see any action in the car doesn't mean she didn't "service" him.
> 
> She cut you off because she's being loyal to her boyfriend. The majority of women are not emotionally able to have sex with more than 1 man. Once your WW gave herself to OM, she was through with you. Just because she changed jobs doesn't mean they can't get together for a weekly lunch BJ or backseat quickie.
> 
> This OM was defiling your wife while she was breast feeding? This POS probably had his mouth on and probably shot off on her breast that were still feeding your child. The mouth that would probably service him during lunch breaks came home to kiss your child. Damn your wife is VILE.
> 
> If your wife was willing to so quickly have sex and thereby risking her baby's security then you know she doesn't love or respect you. I'd bet that they're just laying low until the dust settles to restart.
> 
> You decided to R WAY TO FAST and she has suffered no consequences. Her refusing to IC and having to be begged for MC tells me she wants to do the bare minimum to appease you. A truly remorseful wife, would be allowing you to claim her back through at least a week straight of hysterical bonding sex. But you're still cut off. That means she's still his girl.


This is just mean and completely untrue.

Jumping into bed with you and giving you a week straight of hysterical bonding sex is not an indication of a remorseful wife at all and your wife is no more "vile" than the next adulterer. She's not doing the "bare minimum to appease you" as she's not ready or trying to "appease" anything right now. She's just lost and probably too ashamed to talk to a counselor. As far as "consequences", I think you should consider exposing to influential friends and family such that they will support the two of you, pray for you and hopefully hold her accountable but other than that, "consequences" aren't your responsibility. She's not your child you are responsible for disciplining, she's your wife and God will dish out the consequences {there's truly no avoiding consequences}. 

We all sin ~ and adultery is way up there on the list of the most egregious sins. To get there these wayward spouses twist their minds into knots trying to self-justify their behavior, make it not that bad and try to figure out a way to keep it going. It's takes time to unwind that thinking before they can even get to remorse let alone repentance and making amends.

Your wife is messed up for sure ~ so you have a choice to keep kicking her while she's down or be part of the process of building her back up and becoming a leader in your marriage. If you are a believer you can actually sanctify your wife through Him with your own prayers, behavior and submission to Him. 

She certainly may never truly come around. Maybe the affair rekindles or she just never comes to repentance. Surely you can file for divorce at that point in time. I'm not suggesting you wait and "support" the person who just gut-punched you indefinitely but a couple months after 'no contact' is doable, right?


EDIT TO ADD: If OM's wife/girlfriend doesn't know about the affair you must expose to her as well. Don't talk to your wife about it as she'll give you every reason why you shouldn't and try to manipulate you into not doing it and probably call OM to forewarn him. Just do it. It's the right decent thing to do.


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## TRy

jefe123 said:


> when i brought up the topic of sex, she said she just had no desire. Not sex with me, the OM or anyone. Just was in a weird situation where she wasn't wanting it at all. I did not take this well. I'm dying for intimacy with my wife and she didn't have sex with me for the last 5 months of her affair, always having excuses which i bought because she was breast feeding.


 It is not just that she is denying you sex. It is what it really means.

1) Her saying that "she just had no desire. Not sex with me, the OM or anyone" is just like the excuses that she gave you "for the last 5 months of her affair". Since she was in fact having sex during those 5 months, just not with you, what she really meant then and means now is that *she does not want sex with you*.

2) When she says "Not sex with me, the OM or anyone", what she just told you to your face is that in her mind when it comes to sex, you as her spouse are on the same footing as "the OM or anyone" else. She no longer gives you as her spouse any sexual privileges over the OM. After giving the OM sexual privileges over you for 5 months, now that she has been caught cheating, the most she is willing to do is put you on par with the OM. If the OM cannot have sex with her, neither can you.

This would be a deal breaker for me. I would file for divorce without waiting. You can always change your mind later if she earns a third chance, but as of now she is not really remorseful and thinks it is still all about what she wants with your wants and needs taking a back seat. Tell her that you know that somewhere there is a woman that wants to be married to you. That wants to have sex with you. That would wake up every day thanking God that she had you in her life. That you now know that this woman is not you, and that every day that you waste in a marriage to her, you are wasting not being with that woman that wants to be your wife.


----------



## morituri

You devalue yourself, and your marriage, by making it too easy for her not to feel at least some consequences for her infidelity. She should be on probation until she demonstrates that she not only wants you as a husband, as father for her child but also as her lover. Being simply roommates is not conducive for a reawakening of sexual desire on her part.

You'd be wise to consider the post below.



caruso said:


> One thing you can do, and really should do is *don't make it so certain for her.
> 
> Tell her you don't know if you'll take her back even if she does everything "right".
> 
> Tell her you need alone time to figure it out and she's gotta find somewhere else to live until you do.*
> 
> That sort of thing. It's more about attitude than anything else. It's all about putting yourself first and putting her at a distant second, like she did with you when she was having sex with the other guy.


This. I was going to make the same point but I'm glad that someone else saw it and pointed it out.


----------



## jefe123

She has got another job. She dragged her feet in between dday 1 and 2. But within 2 weeks of dday2, she had a new job. She's a nurse and works in a hospital. I've since learned how conducive that atmosphere is to affairs. Sad I didn't realize it before. It's rampant.


----------



## ABHale

I think you need to start talking to a lawyer. Sorry but she was all into sex with the other man but not you. 

The reason, She didn't want to cheat on the OM with you. 

I can't understand why you are trying to salvage this. It is unreal what some men will go through for a lying cheating *****. 

It might be different if she show by her actions that she still loved you, but that was not the case was it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VladDracul

jefe123 said:


> So what consequences should I give? I don't want to be divorced, but I don't want to be walked on either.



Please tell us you're not a SAHD. Whether you want a divorce or not, you ain't gonna get nowhere by rolling over and playing dead. Besides, getting a divorce is not entirely up to you. She may decide to just ditch your azz.


----------



## morituri

Chief this may seem Machiavellian but it would be wise for you to get your waterfowl in a linear alignment (your financial affairs in order) by developing a contingency plan for divorce. You may not want to divorce, but that doesn't mean that your WW may not chose that option, so it is best to be prepared as much as you can for the worst case scenario possible.The more you face your fears the better you will be when it is time to make the hard choices.


----------



## TBT

Exactly how long was her affair if she wouldn't have sex with you during the last 5 months of it? 

You owe it to yourself to follow up and make sure that the lies aren't continuing. Being pretty sure isn't good enough if you want to work on a proper reconciliation. Remember,after DD1 she agreed to reconciliation and then along came DD2. Knowing you had her checked by a P.I. would give her lots of incentive to cover her tracks better if she is too far gone with the OM. Is she transparent with her devices? Do her work hours match up to her earnings? Has she a burner phone?


----------



## farsidejunky

morituri said:


> Chief this may seem Machiavellian but it would be wise for you to get your waterfowl in a linear alignment (your financial affairs in order) by developing a contingency plan for divorce. You may not want to divorce, but that doesn't mean that your WW may not chose that option, so it is best to be prepared as much as you can for the worst case scenario possible.The more you face your fears the better you will be when it is time to make the hard choices.


Did I just spot @morituri?

Nah...



/threadjack


----------



## Sports Fan

She is gas lighting you and you have allowed it. So after she gets caught the second time she has suddenly lost the desire for sex full stop? 

Let me explain a few realities to you. You can guarantee that had your wife lost any desire for sex as she claims her Affair Partner would have given her the arse so quick she would have a sore behind from being dumped on the pavement.

You have offered up no consequences of whatsoever for her extremely foul behavour. All she knows at the moment is that you have had a slight temper tantrum at catching her affair but are prepared to let her dictate terms in fear of you not wanting too Divorce.

Talking from experience these are the consequences you need to offer up.

Cancel any joint bank accounts, credit cards, etc. If you support her financially, emotionally whatever stop. She pays half the bills regardless of whether she can afford too or not. If she claims she can't afford it suggest her lover can help out financially.

She offers up all passwords to every device she owns, Phone, Ipad, Emails, Facebook, etc. She should be made aware failure to comply with any of the above is a deal breaker for you and Divorce will be swift.

You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.

Right now she is only with you cause you have a baby and you are her safety net $$$$.


----------



## rockon

farsidejunky said:


> Did I just spot @morituri?
> 
> Nah...
> 
> 
> 
> /threadjack


The sage has descended the mountain to deliver his arcane wisdom. (end T/J)


----------



## SunCMars

I went to the garage to get a nail for my posting here.

When I opened the wooden box all were gone, taken by other smart TAM poster children.

I found a rusty one and buffed it to a shiny hue. Here it is.....need I tell you that it is a spike....a 60-d ring nail? Once driven in, it cannot be removed.

(=) * |-------------> She said she had no desire............. to hold you in her arms, to kiss your loyal lips, to caress your body. 
|
|
|

Since D-Day that is the only honest thing that she has said to you.

This is short hand for:

I do not love you.
I did not {then} respect you, whence I gave my love to another. I still do not respect you. If I did, I would pack my things and leave.
I did not love or respect my child enough to keep her/him in a stable home...a stable relationship. I was/am willing to risk my child's future welfare with/for a cheating wife thief.
I need the roof, the food, the water, a bed that I do not want to share. I do not need YOU, separate from these things.
I stay because I have no were else to go. My body will remain [untouched] in our home, my heart resides somewhere else.

There is NO reason to reconcile. You have lost her.........no, SHE has cut the ties, cut your throat..........and cut the cheese, Phew!

Gather up your SUBSTANTIAL DIGNITY and file for divorce. You deserve better, you have earned better.

What does she deserve? A life without the best thing to happen to her....you, my friend.

File the Divorce papers, do the 180 plan touted on this blog.


----------



## SunCMars

jefe123 said:


> So what consequences should I give? *I don't want to be divorced*, but I don't want to be walked on either. Should I give her a time frame for counseling? One month and if things haven't changed I see an attorney?
> 
> Sucks I'm going through it.


You do not want to be divorced? Of course you did not want...do not want THIS...suck, your word.

Technically, you are divorced when the papers are filled out, future arrangements are hammered out, agreed to.....and a judge signs off.

But in reality, you are divorced when one or both parties break their oaths and their solemn promises.

She did that........you ARE divorced.......Sorry you are here.......or there.... alone.


----------



## SunCMars

caruso said:


> one thing you can do, and really should do is don't make it so certain for her.
> 
> Tell her you don't know if you'll take her back even if she does everything "right".
> 
> Tell her you need alone time to figure it out and she's gotta find somewhere else to live until you do.
> 
> That sort of thing. It's more about attitude than anything else. It's all about putting yourself first and putting her at a distant second, like she did with you when she was having sex with the other guy.


yes, this!


----------



## SunCMars

Quality said:


> This is just mean and completely untrue.
> 
> Jumping into bed with you and giving you a week straight of hysterical bonding sex is not an indication of a remorseful wife at all and your wife is no more "vile" than the next adulterer. She's not doing the "bare minimum to appease you" as she's not ready or trying to "appease" anything right now. She's just lost and probably too ashamed to talk to a counselor. As far as "consequences", I think you should consider exposing to influential friends and family such that they will support the two of you, pray for you and hopefully hold her accountable but other than that, "consequences" aren't your responsibility. She's not your child you are responsible for disciplining, she's your wife and God will dish out the consequences {there's truly no avoiding consequences}.
> 
> We all sin ~ and adultery is way up there on the list of the most egregious sins. To get there these wayward spouses twist their minds into knots trying to self-justify their behavior, make it not that bad and try to figure out a way to keep it going. It's takes time to unwind that thinking before they can even get to remorse let alone repentance and making amends.
> 
> Your wife is messed up for sure ~ so you have a choice to keep kicking her while she's down or be part of the process of building her back up and becoming a leader in your marriage. If you are a believer you can actually sanctify your wife through Him with your own prayers, behavior and submission to Him.
> 
> She certainly may never truly come around. Maybe the affair rekindles or she just never comes to repentance. Surely you can file for divorce at that point in time. I'm not suggesting you wait and "support" the person who just gut-punched you indefinitely but a couple months after 'no contact' is doable, right?
> 
> 
> EDIT TO ADD: If OM's wife/girlfriend doesn't know about the affair you must expose to her as well. Don't talk to your wife about it as she'll give you every reason why you shouldn't and try to manipulate you into not doing it and probably call OM to forewarn him. Just do it. It's the right decent thing to do.


Quality......Quality you are...Quality and pragmatic empathy is a rare commodity in our Species. You remain Incertae Sedis. That is a complement.


----------



## Satya

Most of us have been divorced. 

And most of us have been to the other side and back. 

We all had our own healing process, some similar to others, some not so similar. 

Some of us have found a better existence with a person we love more and who adores us and treats us miles better. 

Some of us have stayed single and love it, some of us have married again, some of us are dating or will be dating soon. 

ALL of us prove that there's life after divorce. It's what YOU make of it.


----------



## TaDor

jefe123 said:


> We are currently almost 3 months post Dday. ~~~
> 
> I told her i would wait temporarily while she went to counseling. But not forever.
> 
> Has anyone seen this behaviour before? Does she not want sex with me because she still is thinking about him? i have access to everything i know about, as far as i can tell, the A is over. She seems happy to have ended it and like a weight was off her shoulders due to the deception. IDK if thats true or not. I just am perplexed with this sex issue. I thought we would be on a path to R after the job change. I now feel we are moving backwards.
> 
> ANy advice?


Welcome to the club of the betrayed... not fun.

Others have given you advice. They mean well - and most of the advice is true. I'm coming on up 1 year since my wife's affair started.

YOU cannot win with begging or asking. *SHE* is still in the affair. I too thought otherwise when she "came back and decided to try R after a few weeks".

She is in a fog, it doesn't POP and go away. It fades. My wife also left her job (3 weeks after D-Day) but I didn't know truth. It was months of hell.
Her fog took another 4 months to fade enough to start a real R... which I can still only hope.

As others have said. *IF* you want to nip it in the butt. You **MUST** contact the POSOM's wife. When your wife went off in the car with him - they more than talked. So yeah, no contact is very important. The failures of breaking NC is normal and heart breaking. Exposure to her family is important... she isn't thinking much of a mother at the moment.

My wife also found me sexually unattractive - said so with her own words, for the week or so of DD. But she also bounced back and forth on what she wants.
So yeah, her NOT having sex with your - is just HER heart and body is *HIS*, not *yours*. She is MAD at your for interfering with her fantasy. They all do this. The affair effects the brain like crack.

So if the sex with other men is not a deal breaker and SHE wants to "try and save our marriage?"... have the following ready.

#1 - NOT JUST friends, read this - explains how affairs happen. There is a section for BS's to heal without reconciliation. If you two decided to fix this mess she made, she'll need to read that book too (400 pages).
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Frie...t+just+friends

#2 - Giver her this short 87page book to read. It'll take about 2 hours to read. Its FOR the cheater. I may crack her brain a bit to see the damage she has done to YOU, your children and HERSELF.
https://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Spo...HNS408BZGFMM8J

Just hand her book #2. DO NOT give her "NOT JUST FRIENDS." its 400 pages and she isn't ready for it...

Plan for MC. And sex needs to happen... sooner rather than later.

Watch and have her watch this video (watch it with her).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QKOUbosNo

Like others have said. Your marriage is dead... she killed it. Your "wife" is a zombie.
It won't be the same. But at best, you and her may start a new one... BUT you must be willing to Divorce.

I kicked mine out of our home.

Good luck.


----------



## Legend

There are 3.5 billion women on planet earth. 

She can be replaced by someone much better for you.


----------



## ReformedHubby

My advice is to tell her that you no longer want sex from her, and that you'll be getting it elsewhere. Then consider yourself separated and go about seeing what your worth outside your marriage really is. I am betting your current attitude will change considerably.


----------



## bandit.45

Quit shaming this man people. He may be in the fog, but he's hurting. Calling him pathetic isn't helping matters. 

He's scared, angry and confused. They don't teach Cheater 101 in high school. Few people are equipped for this or have any idea how to deal with this stuff.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Sir, you should read one book. "Grow A Pair". I say this not in jest but from my experience. Also, "No More Mr. nice Guy". She is in control
Not you. No contact is a must. Have a lawyer draft. POSOM s wife or significant other should be notified. IMMEDIATELY!

Your story somewhat disturbs me. I would highly recommend a DNA test, for your piece of mind, and secondly it will let your wife know trust right now is non existent. Do not mouse out......MAN UP!


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## MattMatt

Moderator message: 

Some posts seem not to be following the rules/guidance of TAM. 

Any new members/posters please read this before making any more posts>>>> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html

Failure to follow these rules could result in a ban from the site.


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Quit shaming this man people. He may be in the fog, but he's hurting. Calling him pathetic isn't helping matters.
> 
> He's scared, angry and confused. They don't teach Cheater 101 in high school. Few people are equipped for this or have any idea how to deal with this stuff.


:iagree:

And the ironic thing is, @bandit.45, those who mock betrayed spouses in the worst possible terms, if it happened to them, they'd break down and cry like a baby, utterly unable to cope.

They can sling it, but that's all they can do.


----------



## MancMan

MattMatt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the ironic thing is, @bandit.45, those who mock betrayed spouses in the worst possible terms, if it happened to them, they'd break down and cry like a baby, utterly unable to cope.
> 
> They can sling it, but that's all they can do.


So true. I've posted a couple of times on here and there are always a few thats first response is 'you're just a weak man. Completely pathetic. Grow a pair and get a divorce.'

Those are the same type of people who, when someone says they their wife seems a little distant automatic response is 'she's sleeping with someone, file for D straightaway'.


----------



## jefe123

THe OM is not married, or has a GF. I know for a fact there is no hotel rooms, or her going out without me. We always had a marriage where we did everything together. She became a nurse and started working night shift which allowed her much more freedom than previous. Couple that with this manipulative guy pursuing her, and her hormones(not making excuses, what she did was vile) and it was a recipe for an affair. Now shes off nights and into a day shift. We are together 24/7 if we are not at work. we have security cameras at home to monitor her at home(didn't have these before, her idea to install them). I can literally watch her all the time or am with her, EXCEPT when shes at work. She doesn't work with him anymore, but that obviously doesn't mean he can't go up there, or meet in a vehicle. I put a VAR in her vehicle this morning. ANxious to hear what it finds. I'm hoping nothing.

I realize i'm "pathetic", i've told myself 1000 times how i always said cheating was an absolute dealbreaker. Now i'm here and i'm sticking around. I told her last night how i feel she is either still actively engaged with him, or at least thinking about him. ANd thats why she won't be with me. Of course she promises that's not true. I'm trying to answer all your questions. We have another kid who is 10, so when he's around i know she at least can't be with OM in person. This is why i feel A is over. Doesn't mean feelings from affair are over.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Here is what i am not hearing from her, and maybe i'm wrong...what heavy lifting is she doing to rebuild that trust and love with you?


----------



## bandit.45

You are not pathetic. Quit saying that. 

Jefe, answer some questions if you would....

1) how much about her affair did you have to sleuth out and find out for yourself?

2) how much information about the affair, above and beyond what you knew, did she volunteer? Did you have to force it out of her?

3) did she go no contact wth the OM immediately after DDay? 

4) does she show you any affection at all ( cuddling, passionate kisses, spooning in bed, rubbing your back)?

5). How are you physically? Are you in shape, overweight, weak or muscular?

6). Which of you earns more money?

7) What were her reasons for not going to counseling on her own or with you?

8) have you ever cheated on her?

9) have you don any reading on Married Mans Sex Life Primer, No More Mister Nice Guy, Surviving The Affair?

10) do you have any friends outside the marriag who you can confide in?

11) are you in any kind f counseling for yourself?


----------



## straightshooter

Jefe,

You are NOT 'pathetic". Sometimes it takes a little time to act but once you do things will move in one direction or another.
The VAR in her car was a very smart move. I am sure you know that no matter what you hear you do not disclose to her that the VAR is in car.

Have you looked for a burner phone??? Search her car, her lingerie drawer, or anywhere else you can find that you ordinarily would NOT look. You have stated you already know her working different shift does not guarantee they cannot meet up. That is progress because you are not having your head in sand.

Her voluntarily putting cameras in house only really tells you she is not going to bring him in house. Safe for her. 

Now also understand that probably 90% or more of men, and probably many women, state infidelity will be an instant deal breaker, but the fact that most of the people on this forum did not get divorced immediately is proof that statement sometimes is not followed through on. But how you handle the aftermath is what really counts and truth and all of it is the necessary ingredient to have any chance to reconcile successfully. She needs to understand that and more importantly believe that.

If she has girlfriends that she talks to hopefully the VAR will reveal something. That is important because I will be you that if she told ten of her friends everything that has occurred truthfully, at least half of them would tell her that you will get over it and to just deny as much as she can. And you can bet that it is possible one of her friends would tell her to "be happy" when she was in the affair.

If the VAR does not uncover anything in a few weeks, I still think you should go the polygraph route sometime in a month or two to see if she has broken NC or is still talking to him and around him. 

Hang in there. It does get better once you act in your own interests.


----------



## mistakesweremade

She is still thinking about the other guy because she didn't end the affair, it was ripped away from her. 

Once you start acting like you couldn't give a **** whether she is there or not, she will come looking for attention.


----------



## MrsAldi

@jefe123
Sorry you are here. 
Have you asked your wife to attend couples counseling? 
It may be a good idea to get to the root of why she conducted an affair? 

This OM worked with her? It started as an Emotional Affair and then turned physical. 

So is there something lacking in the emotional area of the marriage? 

Emotions & intimacy are connected to sex for some people, which could be a reason why she doesn't want to participate in sex at the moment. 

I understand that she works in healthcare & the trauma of what happens in the workplace can bond workers, but setting boundaries in the future with the help of a therapist may help both of you in the future, to prevent this from happening again. 

I highly recommend counselling & getting to fix what could be lacking in your marriage. 




Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## jefe123

bandit.45 said:


> you are not pathetic. Quit saying that.
> 
> Jefe, answer some questions if you would....
> 
> 1) how much about her affair did you have to sleuth out and find out for yourself?
> 
> I found out about the affair, she then volunteered all the information. With only me asking questions. She would answer them. I believe truthfully, because there were many painful details.
> 
> 2) how much information about the affair, above and beyond what you knew, did she volunteer? Did you have to force it out of her?
> 
> 3) did she go no contact wth the om immediately after dday?
> 
> She went nc for a few days. But they worked together in the hospital and at least talking started back up. I have video from the pi when they got in her car. Nothing sexual happened.
> 
> 4) does she show you any affection at all ( cuddling, passionate kisses, spooning in bed, rubbing your back)?
> 
> She does show affection. Between dday 1 and 2 there was none and she made it clear it didn't feel right. After dday 2, when she broke down, its all been different. Shes been affectionate, kissing when home from work, spooning in bed.
> 
> 5). How are you physically? Are you in shape, overweight, weak or muscular?
> 
> I'm 6'4 270 lbs. I'm pretty muscular. Definitely don't have a 6 pack, but pretty in shape.
> 
> 6). Which of you earns more money?
> 
> I earn more than her by quite a bit.
> 
> 7) what were her reasons for not going to counseling on her own or with you?
> 
> She originally said she didn't like or need to talk about her feelings. 3 days ago she volunteered to go to ic out of the blue. I'm hoping it's because she realizes she has to figure this stuff out.
> 
> 8) have you ever cheated on her?
> 
> Never
> 
> 9) have you don any reading on married mans sex life primer, no more mister nice guy, surviving the affair?
> 
> I'm reading "after the affair"
> 
> 10) do you have any friends outside the marriag who you can confide in?
> 
> I have talked to a few. Mainly use it to bounce ideas and anger off of so i don't throw it all on her. I did that for a few weeks and it was a disaster.
> 
> 11) are you in any kind f counseling for yourself?


i am seeing an ic. She's helping me get a grip on some anger and learn how to move forward.


----------



## jefe123

Sorry, my answers to the questions are in the quote above. Still new to this.


----------



## badmemory

jefe,

The bottom line is you need to make sure your wife earns her privilege for a second chance. R is a gift she shouldn't take for granted. She needs to believe that you will leave the marriage if she doesn't do the heavy lifting to help you heal. More importantly, you need to *know* it yourself. You don't take divorce off the table. 

It's hard enough for a BS to get past an A with a remorseful spouse. Withholding sex is about the worst thing she could do (other than to continue cheating) to help you heal and restore trust. Don't accept it.


----------



## wantshelp

jefe123 said:


> ... when i brought up the topic of sex, she said she just had no desire.


Here's a thought. Her avoidance is odd. But, what if she has contracted an STD? She might be trying to avoid infecting you, knowing it will make things far worse. Did she use a condom? Did she blow him without a condom? She has to answer those questions. I would have HER tested first for STDs and avoid unprotected sex with her until you have the results. Only if she has something would you need to test yourself. Also, testing her is something you might need to do on a regular basis to protect yourself. If she refuses or reacts strongly, you have your answer and the decision to divorce becomes easy. If you contract an STD (except HPV*), your dating pool shrinks a lot. 

*I exclude HPV because there is a vaccine, so it's transmission is preventable in a LTR.


----------



## becareful2

Don't be too hard on yourself, OP. Nobody really knows how to properly deal with this sh*tstorm. Infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving. What you must not do is rugsweep this.


----------



## TaDor

"This is why i feel A is over. Doesn't mean feelings from affair are over." As long as she has strong feelings - the affair continues. Like when she spent time in the car with him... after DDay. If she sees him or hears him or gets a text message from him, she'll want to have sex with him.

Her NO SEXUAL desire for YOU is a strong indicator that emotionally, she's only thinking about the OM. Logically - she is thinking about the kids. You are likely dead last at this moment. 

MAke sure you test out the VAR, that it doesn't beep or have the volume up. That its able to record properly - that you can hear yourself talk, etc. Make sure its in VAR mode too.


----------



## bandit.45

jefe123 said:


> Sorry, my answers to the questions are in the quote above. Still new to this.


You are fine. On the bar above you will see a "wrap quote" icon, to the right of the picture icon. Just highlight what you want to quote from someone else's post, put the cursor on your post where you want it and hit that quote button and it will put the quote in a nice pretty box on your posting.


----------



## bandit.45

Jefe, one thing I think you really need to do is go to three lawyers for free consults. Almost every divorce lawyer out there will give a free consult. Go interview three of them, and get as much information as you can from those consults. Pick the lawyer who you feel like you can work with... the one you get the best vibes from.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU NEED TO FILE FOR DIVORCE YET. But, you need to get educated as to what you, as a father, can expect from the courts in your jurisdiction. See, one reason you are so scared and unsure right now is that you have no answers. You are walking in a fog of uncertainty. By finding out exactly what your legal rights are in a divorce, you have information...and information is power. Once you get that information you can begin to piece together a strategy for what you will do if she is not making any effort to do what she needs to do to heal the relationship. 

Right now, your WW is doing the bottom-basement bare-minimum she has to do to keep you on the hook and paying the bills. She is not working on herself or being proactive in any way unless you push her to. Thank God she finally agreed to start counseling, but it is pretty damned sad that you have to b!tch at her to get her to do it. Going to counseling is a cheap price to pay for the hell she has rained down on you and the kids. 

I would sit her down, tonight and lay it out for her. You don't have to yell, you don't even need to raise your voice. In calm, even tones, tell her she has one (1) hour to pick which man she wants to be with. Then leave her to her thoughts and come back for the answer. If she wants you, then you are going to require the following from her. 

1) Counseling, once a week, with a licensed marriage counselor who will hold her feet to the fire and make her work her issues.

2) Free and unfettered access to her e-mails, Facebook account, Snapchat, cell phone, Skype... everything. When and wherever you ask for it. 

3) She adds up all the money she spent on her affair and she pays you back every red cent. Every....cent....

4) No more talking, chatting or conversing with men outside her father and brothers and male employers... period. No more talking with male coworkers at the coffee machine, no more flirting with doctors, no more being alone with any men at any time. 

5) She needs to look for a new place to work. Doesn't matter if the OM is no longer there or not. She's a nurse, it should not be hard for her to find a new job. 

6) If OM attempts to "fish" for her, she is to show you his communication immediately before answering. Any communication...any at all...with the OM is instant deal-breaker. 

7) The two of you will spend 15 hours a week together. 15 hours a week, not including sleep hours. Doesn't matter what you do as long as you are doing it together, sans the baby. Get a sitter if you have to. Go out to eat, work on projects together, go for walks, talk...doesn't matter. You two need to re-establish your bond. 

8) She needs to go to her parents and family and tell them what she did, with you there to make corrections as needed. She also needs to apologize to them for destabilizing the family. This should be non-negotiable. 

9) Tell her that if she starts to re-invest in the relationship, then you will invest just as much. And tell her that this is a relationship. The marriage is dead. She killed it. Only you and her working together will turn this fiasco back into a marriage again. 

10) No more lies, no more hiding...period. That means about everything and anything in your lives. She needs to be totally, brutally open and honest about everything with you. And you need to be the same. 

11) She works on boundaries. She and you sit down and write out the boundaries and rules for your marriage. Make a list of rules the two of you will abide by, and then check in with each other weekly to make sure you are both abiding by them. 

12) Anything having to do with her affair that could trigger memories or nostalgia gets thrown out. If they had a special song, she deletes it off her music lists. If she had a dress or clothing she wore just for the OM, it goes in the dumpster. 

13) The two of you get on Amazon and purchase three books: *His Needs, Her Needs* and *The Five Love Languages* and read those two books together. Purchase *Not Just Friends* and require her to read it cover to cover. 

14) Establish one hour a week...one (1) hour a week, where the two of you will sit down and talk about the affair. She must answer truthfully and you will have a question ready for her. Put this on a schedule and do it once a week, same time, same day, so that both of you are prepared. Do not discuss the affair at any other time, unless you are triggering and she needs to comfort you. 

15) She agrees to a GPS tracker on her phone so you can see where she is at all times. This is non-negotiable. 

Those are just a few I can think of. Actually these are all non-negotiable. You set the requirements. I think if you start to do these things, and work on reestablishing some normalcy in the marriage, then she will start to open up sexually. 

Let her know that this is the long haul. It normally takes three to five years to resurrect a marriage from an affair, and that is only when both spouses are giving it a supreme effort. If she cannot last that long then divorce her. Seriously. You do not want to waste one more year of your life with someone who wants to rugsweep. 

Lastly, Start being a leader. Take charge of the marriage, your home and yourself. Up to this point you have failed to be strong and decisive and that is one reason she lost respect for you. She wants you to be her guide through this. That doesn't mean you tell her what to do. What it means is you look her in the eye and you tell her exactly what your expectations arte of her as a wife and as a mother. You tell her, clearly, what your boundaries are and what you will and will not tolerate. And then you follow through. 

You don't have to be badass, or mean, or abusive, or lord it over her. You can say everything you need to say by barely speaking above a whisper...as long as there is conviction behind what you say. Can you do that chief?


----------



## jefe123

Xenote said:


> Here is what i am not hearing from her, and maybe i'm wrong...what heavy lifting is she doing to rebuild that trust and love with you?


This is going to sound silly, but if we were having sex, i'd say she is doing everything necessary for us to heal and move forward. SUre, i'd like to hear "i'm so sorry" more and i'd like her to be willing to say things more often to show her remorse, but her actions have spoken louder than words. Thats why i'm so confused right now. On one hand, i agree, no sex is a huge red flag and something i should rightfully be concerned about. On the other, she's shown me nothing since dday 2 except to show me she wants to make things work. Calling me often with her location, little gestures to show shes thinking about me. I'm obviously confused and not sure how to proceed. I'm going wait out her IC for the time being. She has some stuff to work through. 

Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


----------



## jefe123

8) She needs to go to her parents and family and tell them what she did, with you there to make corrections as needed. She also needs to apologize to them for destabilizing the family. This should be non-negotiable. 


I see this often around here, what does this do to help us? I've tried to research it but am still unclear. This would obviously make her upset to do, I'd still enforce it if i knew it would be beneficial, but i just want to know why it would be good?

EDIT: I clearly don't know what i'm doing, this was meant in reply to Bandit


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## tech-novelist

jefe123 said:


> 8) She needs to go to her parents and family and tell them what she did, with you there to make corrections as needed. She also needs to apologize to them for destabilizing the family. This should be non-negotiable.
> 
> 
> I see this often around here, what does this do to help us? I've tried to research it but am still unclear. This would obviously make her upset to do, I'd still enforce it if i knew it would be beneficial, but i just want to know why it would be good?
> 
> EDIT: I clearly don't know what i'm doing, this was meant in reply to Bandit


The reason this is important is to make sure she can't tell her family that you are to blame if you get divorced. It also wakes her up as much as possible to how much damage she has caused.


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## samyeagar

jefe123 said:


> 8) She needs to go to her parents and family and tell them what she did, with you there to make corrections as needed. She also needs to apologize to them for destabilizing the family. This should be non-negotiable.
> 
> 
> I see this often around here, what does this do to help us? I've tried to research it but am still unclear. This would obviously make her upset to do, I'd still enforce it if i knew it would be beneficial, but i just want to know why it would be good?
> 
> EDIT: I clearly don't know what i'm doing, this was meant in reply to Bandit


Accountability. Family is often able to help keep people in line. She is their daughter, and no doubt they did not raise her to behave this way. And yes, there is the shame aspect. She will be very embarrassed to tell them, to have them know, but sometimes, embarrassment can be a very powerful behavior modification tool. Just remember, you did not bring this upon her. She brought it upon herself and you, so you have no reason at all to protect her from this terrible decision. She needs to own it.

Also, in the event things go south and you do up up divorcing her, it will be more difficult for her to spread lies, and trash talk you, and rewrite history as they will know what is up.


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## Ckone1800

jefe123 said:


> 8) She needs to go to her parents and family and tell them what she did, with you there to make corrections as needed. She also needs to apologize to them for destabilizing the family. This should be non-negotiable.
> 
> 
> I see this often around here, what does this do to help us? I've tried to research it but am still unclear. This would obviously make her upset to do, I'd still enforce it if i knew it would be beneficial, but i just want to know why it would be good?
> 
> EDIT: I clearly don't know what i'm doing, this was meant in reply to Bandit




There are many benefits to exposure. 

She can better see what damage she has caused, if her parents are decent people. They can give her another set of opinions from you. 

She will know that others are aware of what she is capable of, hopefully helping her stay on the right path until she comes to the conclusions on her own. 

If you are worried about ruining your chances of reconciliation by having her do this, please understand that it can be a positive move. Not telling them can have her continuing to keep secrets from people. This is what you are trying to get her to stop, but not telling them is promoting the wrong ideals. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samyeagar

tech-novelist said:


> The reason this is important is to make sure she can't tell her family that you are to blame if you get divorced. It also wakes her up as much as possible to how much damage she has caused.


And of course, if she is resistant to the idea, that speaks volumes as to where she really is in her own acceptance and ownership of what she did. This is one of the more difficult things for a wayward to do because they WILL feel shame, but meh...so what. They didn't feel much shame in having the affair. If they don't feel shame, well, that is very telling too.


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## BobSimmons

jefe123 said:


> This is going to sound silly, but if we were having sex, i'd say she is doing everything necessary for us to heal and move forward. SUre, i'd like to hear "i'm so sorry" more and i'd like her to be willing to say things more often to show her remorse, but her actions have spoken louder than words. Thats why i'm so confused right now. On one hand, i agree, no sex is a huge red flag and something i should rightfully be concerned about. On the other, she's shown me nothing since dday 2 except to show me she wants to make things work. Calling me often with her location, little gestures to show shes thinking about me. I'm obviously confused and not sure how to proceed. I'm going wait out her IC for the time being. She has some stuff to work through.
> 
> Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


Dear god man what are you typing? Listen to yourself.

A man came in and banged your wife. You thought it was over and caught them still at it. Now you're getting excuse over excuse why she won't touch you with a barge pole.

It's respect. She doesn't respect you. A man came in, scooped her up from right under you and for the entire duration they were banging she put him first, meaning you got absolutely zero, which is exactly what you're getting now.

Add to that you plainly told her this would be a deal breaker and yet you're still around. So a man scoops her up, has his way with her during which time you get zero play and on top of that after you find out when this was patently a deal breaker you go back on your word.

Add to that you're basically now begging for sex, even though you know she doesn't want to and that if OM asked her she'd be at it with him in a heart beat.

Can you sort of see how she might not want to have sex with you?


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## KillerClown

jefe123 said:


> Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


If she is truly remorseful and desires sex from you she would be on her knees like a third world sex slave. "I don't want to initiate" means she would give in if you force her. It doesn't mean she wants it. Not even close.


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## bandit.45

jefe123 said:


> This is going to sound silly, but if we were having sex, i'd say she is doing everything necessary for us to heal and move forward. S*Ure, i'd like to hear "i'm so sorry" more and i'd like her to be willing to say things more often to show her remorse, but her actions have spoken louder than words. Thats why i'm so confused right now. On one hand, i agree, no sex is a huge red flag and something i should rightfully be concerned about. On the other, she's shown me nothing since dday 2 except to show me she wants to make things work. Calling me often with her location, little gestures to show shes thinking about me. I'm obviously confused and not sure how to proceed. I'm going wait out her IC for the time being. She has some stuff to work through. *
> 
> Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


This is called placating. She's placating you. That is not working on herself.

You feel confused because your gut tells you it is not authentic. What would be authentic is for her to be proactive and get her ass into counseling and start working on her "whys". More often than not, the "whys" have little to do with you or the marriage, and everything to do with her insecurities, her need for validation, her need for leadership, her selfishness, her need for constant ego-feeding....

She needs to be doing things that will make her a safe partner for you again. She needs to earn your trust. She needs to walk her talk. Right now it's all talk. Watch her actions. 

It sounds to me like she is just telling you sh!t she thinks you want to hear, and doing nothing proactive to deal with her crap boundaries and selfish impulses.


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## bandit.45

samyeagar said:


> accountability. Family is often able to help keep people in line. She is their daughter, and no doubt they did not raise her to behave this way. And yes, there is the shame aspect. She will be very embarrassed to tell them, to have them know, but sometimes, embarrassment can be a very powerful behavior modification tool. Just remember, you did not bring this upon her. She brought it upon herself and you, so you have no reason at all to protect her from this terrible decision. She needs to own it.
> 
> Also, in the event things go south and you do up up divorcing her, it will be more difficult for her to spread lies, and trash talk you, and rewrite history as they will know what is up.


yes...


Accountability.


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## bandit.45

KillerClown said:


> If she is truly remorseful and desires sex from you she would be on her knees like a third world sex slave. "I don't want to initiate" means she would give in if you force her. It doesn't mean she wants it. Not even close.


And she would be faking it. That is not what he wants.


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## lifeistooshort

A lot of guys seem to be under the impression that women are always greatly into their AP physically.

That may or may not be true. Remember that women are often driven by emotional connections so it's quite possible a woman will do all kinds of stuff she isn't into in order to keep a guy.....this includes an AP.

The difference is that an affair partner is often there for sex, so he doesn't care what she's into.....only what she's willing to do. 

A loving hb will usually care though, so he will be loathe to have sex he suspects his wife doesn't want. 

This of course means he is concerned for his wife and is in it for more then sex, and coercing sex out of an unwilling partner is unfullfilling for most decent people. 

So it's entirely possible she doesn't want sex with anyone, including AP.

On the other hand, a loving wife with a good hb will sometimes have sex she isn't into just to make him happy. Ideally it's better if she is into it at least sometimes, but this is a start.

Your wife has told you she might enjoy it, so give it a try. Her willingness to at least try might provide insight into both how open she really is to connecting with you and what kind of marriage she's envisioning.

And many women are responsive. Give it a try but let her know that you'll stop if she asks. You can't know where she is or what she's willing to try if you don't try.

Of course this is all assuming that you don't have poor hygiene/treat her like crap/are obese/anything else that could reasonably be a turnoff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory

jefe123 said:


> Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


Not good enough. The least you should expect is taking turns to initiate.

Look, I can understand not wanting to have sex with a unenthusiastic partner. But just having sex is the first step. If she agrees to sex with you initiating the first time, (maybe the first two times) that's a start. But next time she initiates; or you're back to square one.











.


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## nshroff

jefe123 said:


> Last night she also said "i think i would like sex if we started it, i just feel like i don't want to initiate". To me that's very different than "i don't want sex" but does that mean she really wants it? It also means i have to initiate with someone who might be greatly resenting me for it. IDK what to do.


I ask again, why do you think you have to initiate when she is the offender and has denied you for more than 8 months?


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## harrybrown

My wife is a nurse.

Yes, hospitals are terrible places of temptation.

Have you had her tested for stds yet? Have you had her expose the OM to where she worked to show that she is putting you ahead of the OM?

Has she written you a timeline of this A and all her other A's? 

Yes she must expose, to show she has consequences. Your situation sounds just like another poster that his wife refused sex after her affair. road scholar no sex after her affair.

She had not stopped her affair. she just hide it better.

your wife is not your friend. She is your enemy now. She ripped your heart out of your chest, then threw it in the fire, by saying no sex for you.

Read up on road scholar.

has your wife read not just friends yet? How to help you heal from her affair? She has not done anything yet. Expose and file for D.

she does not respect you or love you. How could she and continue to treat you so rotten?


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## bandit.45

Bottom line, before you do anything, Hefe, you must confirm that the affair has really ended. It is very possible that it has not ended and she has taken it underground and is hiding it better. Check that VAR. Check her phone. Do what you have to do.


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## jefe123

bandit.45 said:


> Bottom line, before you do anything, Hefe, you must confirm that the affair has really ended. It is very possible that it has not ended and she has taken it underground and is hiding it better. Check that VAR. Check her phone. Do what you have to do.


if it's truly ended, but she still says temporarily not interested in sex, do i give a timeline? She goes to IC and we wait a month. If it hasnt' changed i file?


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## bandit.45

jefe123 said:


> if it's truly ended, but she still says temporarily not interested in sex, do i give a timeline? She goes to IC and we wait a month. If it hasnt' changed i file?


First, spend the next week confirming the affair is over through whatever means you can. At the same time, start instigating all those steps I listed.. 

Here is my theory, and the other TAM members can call me on it if I'm wrong, but if you sit her down and demand all those things I listed, and she agrees to them, then she might see that for the first time you are willing to take a leadership role. If she sees you as stepping up to be a leader, then that might awaken whatever dormant attraction is hiding in her. And that in turn might whet her desire for you so that she does start instigating. 

Then again she might just want you to "take" her that first time. The TAM ladies may weigh in on that. 

As for a deadline? I would not giver too much time.


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## lifeistooshort

If you sit back and wait for her to initiate that will come across as very weak and needy.....unattractive.

Doubt her AP sat back and waited for her to come on to him. 

You don't have to force anything but at least lead and try.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I think you should just bend her over the couch and give her a good seeing to...but that's just me. 

No, but you could try going up behind her and kiss the back of her neck and see where it goes.


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## arbitrator

*Let's just say that if the marriage counseling fails to adequately resolve the sexual dilemma that she has with you, then you have every right to end this charade of a marriage by planting yourself in your lawyer's office to start your extrication process from this sham of a marriage! IMHO, I can't help but think that she is still carrying a torch for the POS lout!

Methinks that you are far more sympathetic to her ploy than most jilted men, or even women would ever be!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quality

bandit.45 said:


> I think you should just bend her over the couch and give her a good seeing to...but that's just me.
> 
> No, but you could try going up behind her and kiss the back of her neck and see where it goes.



I doubt it but it is possible her affair might have been very disappointing or even abusive with regards to the sexual encounters they did have and her aversion isn't because she finds you vulgar or unappealing but rather she finds herself vile and disgusting for what she allowed herself to become and the things she did.

Between DD1 and DD2 she also learned that OM didn't give a crap about her. He wasn't willing to leave his wife and become her official boyfriend or future husband. She learned she'd been used like a dumpster.

Lifeistoshort pointed out earlier that a lot of wayward wives are in the affair for an unment emotional need whereas OM's are in it for sex. The OM's meet that need in spades as long as they get sex so the wayward wife becomes overly willing to do whatever vulgar sexual thing the OM wants as long as he keeps making her FEEL good {which becomes harder and harder to do because the reality tells her she's a cheating wh0re}. 

She MAY have done some despicable things {beyond just vulgar adultery}. Things she never ever wanted to do previously and never wants to do again. OM may have even hurt her trying to live out his porn fantasies. She may almost feel a little like a rape victim. Sure it was consensual, but she's ashamed of herself and dreads ever having to talk about it. 

The point is ~ bending her over the couch and treating her like a dumpster yourself MAY NOT be helpful in that instance. But I also don't think trying to passionately make love when she's not really into it is advisable either ~ because it makes you look desperate and needy. 

Therefore, my suggestion would be to initiate and make it fun light hearted sex. 

I also recommend continuing to snoop. The VAR will hopefully uncover any such truths about her thoughts and feelings because you can't fix what you don't know and cheaters are often very unwilling to share the entire story. In order to rebuild your marriage it needs a foundation of complete honesty. You can beg her to tell you everything but there may be some things so bad she'll hold back out of fear. Assure her there is nothing the two of you can't figure out together and that hiding details or facts, no matter how shameful or upsetting, will absolutely doom your recovery. But still snoop because she's still might not share whatever her real hangups about sex is.


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## morituri

Jefe,

One of the most vile consequences of being betrayed are the mental sex movies that the BS (betrayed spouse) has to endure of her/his WS (wayward spouse) with her/his AP (affair partner) that come uninvited at the most unexpected times. Their effect can be brutal and sex is the last thing a BS wants with her/his BS,

Do you suffer from any of these "mind movies"? If so, are you sure you are up to the task of having sex with your wife?


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## jefe123

Well the worst was confirmed. One day of VAR and I overheard her calling him and talking like everything was just rosy. Nothing sexual, but a conversation like a couple would have. Seeing attorney tomorrow.


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## jsmart

Sorry to hear that but most TAMers knew this was the case. She's not having sex with you because she's being loyal to her man. I've read too many threads from WWs on LS where they explain how they took the affair further underground after Dday. These women are willing to destroy everything for their POS. 

It is now time to expose to all her family and friends, have her served at work and confront POS all on the same day.


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## morituri

Sorry to hear that Jefe, but you more than gave her a chance to end the affair and a shot at reconciliation. She threw it away, and thus she bears the sole responsibility for putting the final nail on the coffin of her marriage.

You will find that there is life after divorce and it is often a life which is much better than the one you had while you were married.


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## Palodyne

jefe123 said:


> Well the worst was confirmed. One day of VAR and I overheard her calling him and talking like everything was just rosy. Nothing sexual, but a conversation like a couple would have. Seeing attorney tomorrow.


Hey, brother, I am so sorry. It is not uncommon for a WW to take the affair deeper underground to fool the faithful spouse. You are making the right move to secure an attorney. You need to file for divorce and start thinking of your own happiness.

Tell her you are allowing her to pursue her dreams of happiness through sex with other people. Inform her that you are freeing her to speak freely with her bastard lover without having to sneak behind your back. Turn her loose upon herself.

Then you find out who her boyfriends wife is and expose the entire affair. Give her the closure that she needs. Then walk away, find a new woman that will respect your boundaries and love you as a husband. You deserve better.


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## Quality

jefe123 said:


> Well the worst was confirmed. One day of VAR and I overheard her calling him and talking like everything was just rosy. Nothing sexual, but a conversation like a couple would have. Seeing attorney tomorrow.


Is OM a doctor at the hospital? Having an affair with a nurse might violate some rules {but it's my understanding that hospitals kiss doctors butts and they never get reprimanded. Instead the nurses/staff get dismissed as troublemakers. 

Don't confront your wife specifically about what you heard on the VAR or it could/will become all about your "invading her privacy" and your seeming "controlling behavior".

It may even be illegal in your state.

Don't even mention it to your attorney or you may have to provide a copy of it during any divorce/custody proceedings. The VAR is just your secret and you may benefit continuing to use it ~ so don't blow your cover.

Take your time to strategize things. If you are careful, you can do things like move around monies, cancelling cards, buying Publix Gift cards with cash, buying extra supplies. Once a divorce is filed, you'll be restrained from moving around stuff.


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## bandit.45

I'm sorry Jefe. I was hoping against hope but...

We've just seen this same story play out too many times. 

Move boldly forward.


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## bandit.45

Quality has good points. Unless you have already done so, go see some lawyers quietly and without alerting her. Move your direct deposit to a new account in your name only, and shut down your credit cards. If you have savings, move half of them to your new checking account.


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## farsidejunky

Jefe, do not disclose that you have the VAR in place.

When she asks how you know, tell her it doesn't matter, and that you love her enough to set her free to be with her OM since he is important enough for her to continue to see.

Have her served, and expose to friends and family on the same day.

Then go dark.

I am so sorry, brother.


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## caruso

Quality said:


> Don't even mention it to your attorney or you may have to provide a copy of it during any divorce/custody proceedings.


Of course mention it to your attorney, tell your lawyer everything that is relevant so they can assist you in their best capacity. You are protected by attorney client privilege.


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## Thor

The #1 rule is to never divulge your sources of intel. Never.

Sorry things went this way for you.

Now you have to switch into strategic mode. Look out long term, 1+ years from now. Set yourself up to be where you want to be after the divorce. This means stfu to your wife about anything to do with the affair, your suspicions, or what you know. Act dumb. The good news is she isn't likely to initiate sex with you. If she does, feign illness or severe fatigue. In some states you have a legal advantage in divorce if your spouse cheats, and you do have a strategic advantage with offering to not drag everything out in court. But, in some states it is seen legally as forgiveness if you have sex with her. That would destroy any advantage you might have legally in the divorce.

Archive all the data you have in several secure locations. Use a secure cloud based off site storage service. Put the data on an encrypted thumb drive and give it to a 100% trusted person such as a brother. Keep a copy in a password protected and hidden folder on your computer so you have access to it.

Start gathering copies of all the documents you want and need. All bank statements, retirement accounts, credit cards, car loans, etc. Secure your birth certificate, passport, etc where she cannot get them. Make copies of her and kids' passports, birth certificates, and social security cards. If you have special objects either of great monetary value or great emotional value, move them off site. Don't hide assets, but do make them unavailable to her. For example if you have a classic motorcycle, have a trusted friend store it so your stbxw can't key it. When it comes time to do the financial disclosures do be sure to list all these things. You can even document these things now and give a detailed list and explanation to your lawyer so it is established now that you aren't hiding these things, just protecting them from her damaging them.

You should now be focused on only doing and saying things which advance you towards a successful outcome in the divorce. Let the petty crap go if it isn't helpful. Don't make snarky comments which may tip her off that you're aware of the continuing affair. Don't hint at divorce. Just be cold and calculating. Find a good atty and work the process to your advantage.


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## SunCMars

.......


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## PhillyGuy13

The VAR is for you and God to know. Nobody else. Especially attorneys. It is of zero help in any legal proceedings and can only get you in trouble.

You are under no obligation to prove to her how you know or even tell her what you know.

Get your accounts in order and quietly file for divorce.

So sorry man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

jefe123 said:


> Well the worst was confirmed. One day of VAR and I overheard her calling him and talking like everything was just rosy. Nothing sexual, but a conversation like a couple would have. Seeing attorney tomorrow.


*Given this revelation, I'd greatly say that once you see your lawyer, it's high time to start playing "moving van!"

And get her a$$ quickly moved out of there!

Or dump all of her belongings on the front porch and let her POS BF come pick them up for her!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jefe123

You people are good people. I'm obviously gutted, but not shocked. I'm going to some consults tomorrow with attorneys. I'll be ok. Luckily the process of being in limbo for a couple months helped me heal on my own rather than as a couple. So I feel I'm ahead of the curve a little. I spoke with her parents and are going to expose in the morning. She needs help breaking this destructive cycle, though that's no longer my concern.


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## Archangel2

Jefe - Sorry that things went so wrong for you. I hope you read @Road Scholar's thread.

FYI - As soon as he found his wife was contacting the OM, he informed his WW that he was filing for divorce. That brought her running back. This may happen to you, so be prepared for the potential onslaught.


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## straightshooter

Jefe,

Sorry brother, but at least you found out the truth very quickly once you acted. No you know what to do with a clear mind that you are not jumping to any false conclusions.

REMEMBER. YOU NOW OWE HER ABSOLUTEYL NOTHING. NO EXPLANATIONS. NO NOTICE OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR WHEN. AND YOU OWE HER BNO EXPLANATION FOR THE DIVORCE PAPERS. 

I know you do not feel like it but you have definitely outsmarted her. Her intentions were to use you as Plan B and take the affair and continue it, which you have just confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt.

Next moves are yours. His spouse or partner deserves to know. Many reasons and not just for revenge. 

Now pressure your attorney to get those papers done. You have to also make a decision. You can pull the VAR, but if you feel you need to know more, leave it. As others have said, once rea;lily hits her, she is going to have a hell of a lot more to worry about rather than paying her attorney to go after you IF she discovers it. If it makes it better for you just pull the VAR. I would personally leave it until she gets the divorce papers so that you might hear what they are planning and that conversation will happen the minute she gets served.

Hang in there. You are getting out of infidelity and away from a woman who does not respect you or care about you and who intended on using your good nature to abuse your trust.


----------



## GusPolinski

jefe123 said:


> Well the worst was confirmed. One day of VAR and I overheard her calling him and talking like everything was just rosy. Nothing sexual, but a conversation like a couple would have. Seeing attorney tomorrow.





jefe123 said:


> You people are good people. I'm obviously gutted, but not shocked. I'm going to some consults tomorrow with attorneys. I'll be ok. Luckily the process of being in limbo for a couple months helped me heal on my own rather than as a couple. So I feel I'm ahead of the curve a little. I spoke with her parents and are going to expose in the morning. She needs help breaking this destructive cycle, though that's no longer my concern.


Sorry man, but it was pretty obvious to pretty much everyone here that she was still involved w/ OM.

Let this be a lesson to any BH who finds himself struggling w/ a lack of sex in the days, weeks, and months (?) following D-Day: if she's not having sex w/ you, she's either still involved w/ her AP or she's mourning the end of her affair so intensely that she can't bring herself to have sex w/ you. (Obviously, neither is good news for you or your marriage.)

And this is doubly true WHEN THERE HAS BEEN NO HYSTERICAL BONDING. (Read up on the significance of HB -- Hint: the key word in HB is "bonding" -- and you'll understand precisely why.)

Moving on...

Do NOT disclose the VAR to ANYONE except _maybe_ your attorney. And I don't mean _an_ attorney, but rather THE attorney that you wind up hiring.

Don't expose the affair prior to hiring an attorney. I say this because the evidence that you currently have is possibly illegal, and therefore likely can't be used to get the upper hand in terms of a better settlement (no alimony, etc). Ask your attorney whether or not having evidence would assist you in this; if so, find out what you need to get and then work toward getting it. _Legally._

Do you have access to phone records? Email? Anything that would prove (legally) that she's still in contact w/ OM?

Oh, and be prepared for her to swear up and down that it's over, you're crazy, they're still talking but they're just friends, etc.

Don't fall for any of that.

Oh, and BTW?

When you DO finally confront, she'll probably initiate sex, so be prepared for that. Maybe confront w/ her parents present so that she'll be less likely to do that. I say that because, in many states, having sex after the discovery of an affair is seen as forgiveness and reconciliation.

Ask your lawyer about that as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quality

caruso said:


> Of course mention it to your attorney, tell your lawyer everything that is relevant so they can assist you in their best capacity. You are protected by attorney client privilege.


Yes and no.

You CAN tell your attorney that you MAY have overheard a conversation or two where such and such was indicated and said.

Telling your attorney you actually have private recordings {or sometimes people have video} in your possession would be a mistake.

Your wife's attorney will request production of all the documents relevant to the case. They will probably specifically request that any and all recordings, emails, videos relevant to the case be turned over as well. If you tell your attorney they exist, it would be a violation of his ethical obligations to simply allow you to not provide them.

Ok ~ so by the time those requests come along your attorney could conveniently forgets that you told him/her about the recordings or maybe he/she even suggested you destroy them, never mention them again and he/she will pretend they didn't hear it.{an ethical violation}. Suppose your wife finds out about them somehow and tries to press charges against you or they ask you on the witness stand or in a interrogation or whatever about the recordings specifically. Your attorney won't participate in you lying to the court about it. He/she can't. You shouldn't lie about it either but if you do deny it your attorney SHOULD make you tell the truth {or coach you how to Bill Clinton weasel your way around answering such questions specifically} or your attorney might have to withdraw from your case rather than participate in a lie to the judge or court. 

At most ask figurative questions ~ like "my friend is thinking about videotaping his wife in his home, is that legal and what would be the parameters of such legalities and should he tell his lawyer about it ~~ my friend really needs to know ~ would it be legal for my friend to use a VAR in his wife's car ~ would it make a difference if the car was legally titled to my friend?" 


Used to do PI work years ago and set up surveillance security systems for husbands and wives and we needed to warn them just in case they [wink] were going to use such system to illegally spy on their spouse. Don't believe me ~ ask one of the attorneys you ARE NOT going to hire during the interview process. Attorney client privilege does not permit your attorney to turn a blind eye as you lie to the court and withhold requested documents about non-attorney activities like recording your spouse.


----------



## Malaise

In a way you're lucky she didn't resume normal relations with you. If she had you would not have been concerned and wouldn't have come here.

The affair would still be going on anyway, and you would have had no clue.


----------



## Quality

Don't wait to talk to an attorney before you expose because most attorneys will tell you not to do it. To them it just complicates the divorce/custody dispute and makes their job of administering the destruction of your marriage a little harder. They want everyone getting along and agreeable while they charge enormous but somewhat more moderate fees while their secretary primarily handles your case. They don't care about OM, your wife, your marriage or your family. Your just another divorce case that they don't want to see blow up and become work for them.

I know you've been trying to save your marriage and been met with a fake brick wall for months now but without 'no contact' you never really had a chance. 

After you expose, you may actually get a real chance to recovery should you want it at that time. Exposure often brings about the end of the affair. Once the affair is over {which even if you divorce you want that guy out of your children's lives too so exposure will help chase him off} she'll be able to think clear again and may actually become super remorseful and repentant. You're within your rights to divorce, but you might change your mind.


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## straightshooter

Jeff,

Please read Gus's post to you over again. Do NOT be surprised at all if she swears on her life she is not in contact with OM and swears she wants to be with you and work it out, and knowing you have been upset about no sex may try to manipulate you by offering it up to you. Do not fall for it!!!

The "no sex" problem that brought you here probably saved you a lot of heartache. If she had no been so "faithful" to OM, you probably would have swallowed her story hook, line, and sinker, and believed they were done. 

Too bad we can't frame your post about the VAR giving you the truth in one day. You were smart enough to take the advice and do it. It amazes me how many BH resist and get whacked again. 

Hang in there. I would get a VAR for YOU and keep it on you for all interactions with her once she is served and real world comes crashing down and she realizes she has cooked her goose.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

@jefe123 - was she using her own cell phone or a burner phone in the car? If it's her own (family plan or whatnot) do you have access to the online account and bill?

Lack of any record of the calls on the online account would indicate she's using a burner phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart

jefe123 said:


> You people are good people. I'm obviously gutted, but not shocked. I'm going to some consults tomorrow with attorneys. I'll be ok. Luckily the process of being in limbo for a couple months helped me heal on my own rather than as a couple. So I feel I'm ahead of the curve a little. I spoke with her parents and are going to expose in the morning. She needs help breaking this destructive cycle, though that's no longer my concern.


It's long overdue for you to have exposed this. By protecting her from facing the shame of what she's done you help lengthen the time that she's fogged up. But don't be surprised if they don't act surprised. She may have been badmouthing you to family and friends; blowing up all your shortcomings to justify her actions.
Either way, her parents will side with their daughter so don't expect much help there.

Did you ever confront POS. This is a critical piece of the equation if you want to R. Putting the fear of God in him can get him to back off and show your wife that you're the more alpha man.

It is not normal for a wife with a small baby to have a sexual affair. Could this affair have been pre-baby. She's throwing everything away for this guy. I would get DNA done. You would not be the 1st poster that finds that he's been caring for another man' kid.


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## Chaparral

What state do you live in? Fault /no fault and var laws are readily available online. Folks here happily will help you check out the state laws.

Keep the var running,just don't mention anything until she's served. The var will come in really handily then because she will be venting to him and or friends.

In any event, she has let you see her true colors as she played you for a fool.


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## GusPolinski

PhillyGuy13 said:


> @jefe123 - was she using her own cell phone or a burner phone in the car? If it's her own (family plan or whatnot) do you have access to the online account and bill?
> 
> Lack of any record of the calls on the online account would indicate she's using a burner phone.


That or she's been using an app like FaceTime, which uses data and therefore won't register as a phone call.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KillerClown

jefe123 said:


> You people are good people. I'm obviously gutted, but not shocked. I'm going to some consults tomorrow with attorneys. I'll be ok. Luckily the process of being in limbo for a couple months helped me heal on my own rather than as a couple. So I feel I'm ahead of the curve a little. I spoke with her parents and are going to expose in the morning. She needs help breaking this destructive cycle, though that's no longer my concern.


I'm terribly sorry for how this turned out. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

What exactly did you tell her parents? Is there a possibility that they would work against you to protect their daughter?


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## Graywolf2

NEVER EVER tell ANYONE about the VAR. If you found out something that you couldn’t have found out any other way then you can’t admit that you know it. You have to figure out some other way that you could have found out. Friends saw them, etc. Remove the VAR now and don’t put it back. You have enough.


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## Graywolf2

You don’t need proof of the contact to divorce her. Just say that she is obviously still involved with the OM because she’s being faithful to him. That you STRONGLY SUSPECT that they are still in contact. Let her swear up and down that she's not in contact and DON'T call her out.

Say that you tried but it isn’t working. If she offers sex turn it down and say it’s over.


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## samyeagar

Or just not worry about the VAR or anything else now. You already have everything you need to know. You don't owe anyone any justifications, rationalizations, or "proof" other than for the simple sake of "proving" you are right.

Honestly, what more do you need? You know your wife is cheating. You know she is a liar. You are not staying married to her. What more is there to be gained?


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## BetrayedDad

jefe123 said:


> ANy advice?


Her body still belongs to the OM, not you. In her mind, sleeping with you means she is CHEATING ON HIM.

Fvcked up sh!t right?!? I swear to you this is exactly how she feels. FILE FOR DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY.


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## SunCMars

straightshooter said:


> *You are getting out of infidelity *and away from a woman who does not respect you or care about you and who intended on* using your good nature *to abuse your trust.


I cropped out the rest*....this is the Kernel.......of truth*.


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## GusPolinski

samyeagar said:


> Or just not worry about the VAR or anything else now. You already have everything you need to know. You don't owe anyone any justifications, rationalizations, or "proof" other than for the simple sake of "proving" you are right.
> 
> Honestly, what more do you need? You know your wife is cheating. You know she is a liar. You are not staying married to her. What more is there to be gained?


Hopefully a divorce settlement that doesn't include any sort of alimony.

Well... none for _her_, anyway.

ETA: Can't help but wonder whether or not this guy is @Lonely husband 42301's nephew. Can't remember if LH said his nephew had kids or not, though.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jefe123

PhillyGuy13 said:


> @jefe123 - was she using her own cell phone or a burner phone in the car? If it's her own (family plan or whatnot) do you have access to the online account and bill?
> 
> Lack of any record of the calls on the online account would indicate she's using a burner phone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Skype app. SOmething she already had installed from way back. Deleted and re-downloaded each time.


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## bandit.45

jefe123 said:


> Skype app. SOmething she already had installed from way back. Deleted and re-downloaded each time.


Has she ever heard of a pay phone?


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## samyeagar

GusPolinski said:


> Hopefully a divorce settlement that doesn't include any sort of alimony.
> 
> Well... none for _her_, anyway.
> 
> ETA: Can't help but wonder whether or not this guy is @Lonely husband 42301's nephew. Can't remember if LH said his nephew had kids or not, though.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately, in most jurisdictions, infidelity is not a consideration in the actual divorce settlement.


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## Wanabeelee

GusPolinski said:


> When you DO finally confront, she'll probably initiate sex, so be prepared for that. Maybe confront w/ her parents present so that she'll be less likely to do that. I say that because, in many states, having sex after the discovery of an affair is seen as forgiveness and reconciliation.
> 
> Ask your lawyer about that as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As well in my state proof don't make a bit of difference in dividing assets. I've also been informed that I will have to pay alimony to her when/if we D. But the proof is going to make a huge difference in custody.


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## Chaparral

samyeagar said:


> Unfortunately, in most jurisdictions, infidelity is not a consideration in the actual divorce settlement.


There are several states where it makes a huge difference.


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## jefe123

i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


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## Tasorundo

It was the right move. She is mad, because people know the truth. If she really cared that much about it, she would not have been doing it.


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## Ckone1800

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.




There is a reason she is hostile after exposure. You have sent her a message that there are consequences for her wayward ways, and she's clearly not pleased with you taking control. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tron

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


Standard operating procedure. They are always furious when their transgressions are exposed to the light and everyone knows who and what they are. This too shall pass.

And Jefe, it was the right move. Don't ever second guess that.


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## Lostinthought61

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


You absolutely did the right thing and just the start, you need to first and foremost get her out of her FOG, because she still is in one.

you must remind her that the children will know one day when they ask why you two got divorce, remind her that her actions have consequences.


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## GusPolinski

jefe123 said:


> I... kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R.


Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


Did your exposure include revealing that you're aware of the fact that she's still involved w/ him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious.


Who gives a sh!t if she's mad? I hope you don't.... Good job on the exposure. 



jefe123 said:


> I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R.


Give up that fantasy.... she's REMORSELESS. 



jefe123 said:


> She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways,


As you should be. She has no respect or love for you.



jefe123 said:


> i just hate she's now so hostile.


Maybe she should start hating how hostile YOU are about get on the divorce. 



jefe123 said:


> IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


Look buddy. You know what the best defense is? That's right. A GOOD FVCKING OFFENSE.

EXPOSE TO EVERYONE YOU MUTUALLY KNOW. Tell her job, tell her family, tell your friends, plaster it on social media.

You're so afraid of her trashy cheating ass. She needs to start fearing YOU. She's the backstabber or did you forget? 

She should be on her hands and knees. Give her the repercussions she deserves. Stop being a spineless fool.

This relationship is over. She wants the other man's D, not yours. At least, go out with some dignity and self respect.


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## jefe123

GusPolinski said:


> Did your exposure include revealing that you're aware of the fact that she's still involved w/ him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes


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## caruso

I know you think you did the right thing, and there are some or many who will agree with you.

Many or most would say that the best way to deal with a remorseless cheater who is still involved with an affair partner is to say nothing other than, "here's your divorce papers" and get on with your life.

No need for revenge, anger, conflict. It's a business transaction gone bad. Well of course it's more than that but if you treat it that way it goes much easier than it otherwise will.

To hold onto hope of reconciliation, and to blow the whole thing up by exposing in an attempt to bring her home, is a long shot at best, and will increase the likelihood of a drawn out high conflict divorce driven by emotions not logic.


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## Steve1000

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious.


When she shows you that she's furious, show her that you're even MORE furious for treating you with such disregard.


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## GusPolinski

GusPolinski said:


> Did your exposure include revealing that you're aware of the fact that she's still involved w/ him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





jefe123 said:


> yes


Please tell me you didn't reveal the VAR...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

caruso said:


> It's a business transaction gone bad.


The courts will treat it exactly like a business transaction. 

But as any BS knows.... damn straight it's personal.

Exposure is never off the table. Regardless of the decision to D or R.

If you can hold it over her head to extort a better settlement then sure.

Wait. Then after the divorce, you without question expose anyway. 


@jefe123 - your situation is very cut and dry. Her heart and vag is with OM. 

Any attempt at R will be pure fiction on her part. She's completely checked out.

DON'T WASTE your time. It will be better spent getting your life back together.


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## harrybrown

get a recorder and keep it on you, in case she tries to claim that you abused her.

get to your attorney right away.

get tested for stds. You did a good thing in exposing. Keep it up.

Have her leave and go to her parents or to the OM's place. get her to leave the house.

Respect yourself. She is your enemy and in cahoots with the OM. they are planning sh*t.

Get her out of your house, if you can. no claims of domestic violence.


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## jsmart

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


You're new here so are not aware that this is normal operating procedure for a WW. I would say that at east half of the BHs that expose a still cheating wife, face her wrath. But it's a front to get you to cower. She's so used to the doormat that enabled her behavior. This is not a time to doubt yourself. This is a time to be resolute. 

Notice how quickly she turned on you. That shows you that she was doing the bare minimum to get you to put your guard down, so she can try to convince POS to take her on. Unfortunately for her, very few men want to take on a cheating wife with a kid. 

Unless the baby is his. I asked you earlier, are you sure about the timeline. It's not normal for a woman with a small baby to engage in a sexual PA. Something tells me this relationship was pre-baby. You need to DNA the baby.


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## GusPolinski

jsmart said:


> You're new here so are not aware that this is normal operating procedure for a WW. I would say that at east half of the BHs that expose a still cheating wife, face her wrath. But it's a front to get you to cower. She's so used to the doormat that enabled her behavior. This is not a time to doubt yourself. This is a time to be resolute.
> 
> Notice how quickly she turned on you. That shows you that she was doing the bare minimum to get you to put your guard down, so she can try to convince POS to take her on. Unfortunately for her, very few men want to take on a cheating wife with a kid.
> 
> Unless the baby is his. I asked you earlier, are you sure about the timeline. It's not normal for a woman with a small baby to engage in a sexual PA. Something tells me this relationship was pre-baby. You need to DNA the baby.


IIRC, he mentioned earlier that he's already had a paternity test for the kid and that he/she is indeed his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Do not leave your house for any reason. If she wants to be away from you, she needs to pack her sh!t and get out. If you leave she could cite abandonment in regards to child custody.


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## bandit.45

Our sage Morituri posted this back in 2011. It's very cogent to your situation, and reflects the attitude you should have towards your WW. 



*
Just Let Them Go*

_The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

If you want a chance for future reconciliation, expose the om as well. If he gets some heat he'll throw her under the bus.


----------



## straightshooter

Jefe,

So the poor little snowflake is pissed off because you told her parents. Guess she might realize maybe you are a little pissed off that she is banging another man again and lying her ass off to you. I hope like hell you get this crazy idea of reconciling with this woman out of your head. You have been burnt multiple times by her. She ain't going to change. If she had banged six different guys during a sex spree maybe it might have been an aberration. But she is incapable of remaining faithful.

I hope once the dust settles you come back here and comment when some of these BH keep staying in limbo land because they refuse to go to Best Buy and do what you did. One day to find out the truth sure beats months and sometimes years of deceit.

I hope you listen to Gus and the others and did not reveal the VAR. Stop trying to prove or justify anything to her. And do not have any more conversations with her parents. Blood is thicker than water and they are going to eventually take her side no matter what she did. She will now tell them a bull **** story so resist the urge to prove anything to them by revealing your source.

By now, if that VAR is still there, you should have a ton of information like who she told and what she has told OM.

It will get better. Hang in there and do not backtrack.


----------



## Chaparral

caruso said:


> I know you think you did the right thing, and there are some or many who will agree with you.
> 
> Many or most would say that the best way to deal with a remorseless cheater who is still involved with an affair partner is to say nothing other than, "here's your divorce papers" and get on with your life.
> 
> No need for revenge, anger, conflict. It's a business transaction gone bad. Well of course it's more than that but if you treat it that way it goes much easier than it otherwise will.
> 
> To hold onto hope of reconciliation, and to blow the whole thing up by exposing in an attempt to bring her home, is a long shot at best, and will increase the likelihood of a drawn out high conflict divorce driven by emotions not logic.


That hasn't been the experience on this or other infidelity forums. Infidelity thrives in the dark. Shedding light on cheaters more often than not destroys the affair particularly if reconciliation is desired.

The next thing he should do is expose the posom to his employers and associates.

They earned it, let them wear it proudly. Posom just wants to have fun. He has no intention of taking on a nursing mother full time.


----------



## Chaparral

If she tries denying what she's doing to you or anyone else offer to pay for a polygraph test and let others know she refused.


----------



## TRy

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious.


 Not telling people the truth as to why the marriage is really ending would be a major lie by omission. She has no right to expect you to become a liar to your friends and family, nor does she have a right to expect that you protect her and her lover from facing the consequences of their cheating actions. It amazes me how cheaters get so use to lying to their spouse, friends and family about the affair, that they actually think that lying is normal. It is not. You did the right thing no matter what your lying and cheating wife says. Your wife has lost her moral compass, do not let her lead you in this process.


----------



## Thor

caruso said:


> I know you think you did the right thing, and there are some or many who will agree with you.
> 
> Many or most would say that the best way to deal with a remorseless cheater who is still involved with an affair partner is to say nothing other than, "here's your divorce papers" and get on with your life.
> 
> No need for revenge, anger, conflict. It's a business transaction gone bad. Well of course it's more than that but if you treat it that way it goes much easier than it otherwise will.
> 
> To hold onto hope of reconciliation, and to blow the whole thing up by exposing in an attempt to bring her home, is a long shot at best, and will increase the likelihood of a drawn out high conflict divorce driven by emotions not logic.


I'm one of those who does not automatically jump to endorsing exposure. Exposure is good for killing the affair, so if the goal is to R then exposure is absolutely necessary. But if the BS has decided to go to D without trying for R, exposure may not be productive. A fogged up WS is likely to be an easier opponent in a D than one who is p1ssed to high heaven about being exposed. There may be financial considerations, too, if the WS loses their job because of exposure.

In my state one can do a DIY divorce using the state website. The petitioner fills out all the info, concluding with how much $$ and what assets (house, cars, etc) go to which spouse. The other spouse is the respondent, who can simply sign a form saying they agree with the filing, and asking the court to sign off on it as-is. The fogged up WS may sign that respondent form without a fight.

Even if one is using lawyers, the fogged up WS, or if the spouse thinks they're getting away with their reputation intact may be a much easier opponent to deal with.

Generally I think exposure after the divorce is finalized makes much more sense if the BS has decided to not try for R.


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## Cowboy2

Who cares if she's furious? This is the consequences of HER ACTIONS, she can own it.

Don't engage her, just sit back and watch what happens.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

samyeagar said:


> Unfortunately, in most jurisdictions, infidelity is not a consideration in the actual divorce settlement.


No it is not my nephew as he has no children.


----------



## caruso

Thor said:


> Generally I think exposure after the divorce is finalized makes much more sense if the BS has decided to not try for R.


I agree with the rest of your post but not the part I quoted above. Exposing after the divorce is just a petty attempt at some sort of retribution and it screams out "I'm not over you and I'm butthurt!".

After the divorce is over walk away and dont look back, he or she isn't worth your time or effort.


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## Archangel2

@jefe123 - It may be a good idea to leave the VAR in the car. You have probably stirred up a hornet's nest, and the chatter should give you good intel. Perhaps you could then find out when your wife and the OM will be meeting up so you can get overwhelming proof that the affair never ended.


----------



## TaDor

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not.


F- her and her anger. IF she wasn't cheating on you and her kids, then none of this would have happened, right?

Don't forget... expose the OM to his GF/Wife/job... like AT his place of work. Some flyers in the waiting rooms of the hospital.

Keep the VAR running as much as you can. Move off the data when you check it. Keep another VAR on your body at all times. It allows you to use your cellphone when you need to. (Using an Audio recording app *IS* limited. An incoming call will stop the recording)

PS: my exposure was over-done, oh well. Man was my WW and family were pissed off.


----------



## ButtPunch

Thor said:


> I'm one of those who does not automatically jump to endorsing exposure. Exposure is good for killing the affair, so if the goal is to R then exposure is absolutely necessary. But if the BS has decided to go to D without trying for R, exposure may not be productive. A fogged up WS is likely to be an easier opponent in a D than one who is p1ssed to high heaven about being exposed. There may be financial considerations, too, if the WS loses their job because of exposure.
> 
> In my state one can do a DIY divorce using the state website. The petitioner fills out all the info, concluding with how much $$ and what assets (house, cars, etc) go to which spouse. The other spouse is the respondent, who can simply sign a form saying they agree with the filing, and asking the court to sign off on it as-is. The fogged up WS may sign that respondent form without a fight.
> 
> Even if one is using lawyers, the fogged up WS, or if the spouse thinks they're getting away with their reputation intact may be a much easier opponent to deal with.
> 
> Generally I think exposure after the divorce is finalized makes much more sense if the BS has decided to not try for R.


I also agree with Thor. 

If you are leaning to divorce, then pissing her off to high heaven will not help.

However, if you aren't quite ready to pull the trigger, Exposure is a must.


----------



## TDSC60

It has been said before, but not often enough.

Since she is now hostile, keep a VAR on you at all times when you are with her. Especially in the house. Trumped up Domestic Violence charges are an often used tactic of cheaters. If police are called, they commonly remove the man from the home just to be safe. With the VAR you can replay the conversation and they will report that she tried to file a false complaint.


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## OnTheRocks

caruso said:


> I agree with the rest of your post but not the part I quoted above. Exposing after the divorce is just a petty attempt at some sort of retribution and it screams out "I'm not over you and I'm butthurt!".
> 
> After the divorce is over walk away and dont look back, he or she isn't worth your time or effort.


I respectfully disagree, especially as a male. People tend to be biased and assume divorces were caused by something the husband did or did not do. It's been 5 years, and I still get a kick out of the look on mutual friends' faces when I tell them the real reason.


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## sokillme

caruso said:


> I agree with the rest of your post but not the part I quoted above. Exposing after the divorce is just a petty attempt at some sort of retribution and it screams out "I'm not over you and I'm butthurt!".
> 
> After the divorce is over walk away and dont look back, he or she isn't worth your time or effort.


Depends, if someone asks you have no loyalty to cover for someone who betrayed you. Same goes if the ex is blaming you for the dissolution of the marriage. Personally I think it is better to living my life authentically and honestly being cheated on shaped some of who I am today I am not going to hide that to protect her reputation. However I also ghosted her after the first month and haven't spoken to her since, so I could care less what she thinks.


----------



## Quality

The OP in the back of his mind still has a hope for reconciliation and therefore, exposure was the right thing to do and his only weapon against the affair that is killing his marriage and family.

Lots of couples reconcile AFTER 'no contact' is achieved. 

It's not stupid, foolish or weak to harbor remaining loving feelings for your wife.

Almost every guy here tried to save their marriage and family in the face of infidelity. Some for months and some, even, for years, it's the guys that didn't take strong action {like getting and using the VAR and exposing the affair} and instead to the more enabling and passive rought that tend to stick around these forums taking out their frustrations and resentments over their own choices on to you are your wayward wife. It's completely reasonable and understandable that "they" {these mostly divorced guys} want to wake you up and convince you that your situation is hopeless and that your wife, like there's is completely unredeemable. They've never seen repentance occur, don't know what it looks like and don't trust it's even possible because most recovering/recovered couples move on pretty quick from these pretty harsh places on the internet leaving a much higher percentage of the resentful divorced ones with lots of anger and baggage to direct the newcomers. It doesn't make them wrong. Based on their experience ~ you should get the F out now and never look back and not waste your life chasing and trying/hoping to recover with a cheating loser. Their ex cheater wives became monsters {like yours is now, I'm sure} and never changed {they remain wayward monsters to this day ~ because that's what happens when they don't repent}. 

Repentance literally means "to change your mind". 

Your wife has to eventually come to repentance and change her mind about the despicableness of her behavior, stop rationalizing and justifying it {to others and herself} and offer amends. It's much more than an apology. It's "changing her mind" about a lot of her sinful wayward ways and thought processes ~ sinful thought processes that have probably been in place for a long time prior to ever becoming adulterous. 

It's pretty easy to change your mind and witnessing {and experiencing} the gift of repentance is pretty amazing but many wayward cheaters are completely bullheaded and stuck in their entitled selfish ways forever. Others reconcile and never truly repent and simply prolong everyone's misery. 

Even if you never reconcile your marriage if you have any remaining hope or love for your wife {even just as the mother of your children} you'll want her to come to repentance about this whole adultery thing eventually. Repentance and forgiveness does not require reconciliation.

Just don't enable this or drag your feet. Fight for her, your marriage and family if only to save your kid's mother for them someday from a lifetime {and eternity} of this. Exposure, though it will anger her, is your greatest weapon because it directly disrupts the affair. She'll never repent as long as she remains adulterous and in any relationship with OM whatsoever. "no contact' is the only hope for her. She technically needs saving from herself. She can get mad all she wants but you are doing her a favor disrupting that insidious relationship and; frankly, making your wife more of a hassle to OM than she's worth. He'll move on to the next nurse that's less complicated and whose husband isn't 'harassing' him sending exposure notes and messages to his family, friends and employer. 

You won't regret so much taking strong decisive action and maybe then finally actually getting confirmed 'no contact' and perhaps a shot at your marriage. Avoiding the conflict, keeping the peace and enabling her behavior just prolongs the misery for everyone and you'll regret wasting the time and fruitless effort so much more. In the long run, she's either going to repent or she's not, His will will be done so don't sit around waiting for it. Wayward wives divorce because they had an affair and their pride won't let them admit their error ~ they don't divorce because their husband's fought for the marriage tried to bust up their affair relationship and did exactly like they would have done had the shoes been on the others feet. They would have exposed you in on Discovery Day One telling everyone what a peice of crapy you are whereas you are hopefully exposing in a more productive less vindictive way asking everyone for their support, prayers and to render any influence they may have upon the adulterer(s).

Don't give up hope in what only appears to be a hopeless situation. Try to get 'no contact'. The sooner the better understanding that it's your best and only chance to see if she's capable of repentance and worthy of a shot at real reconciliation. Lots of marriage survive infidelity. Many go pretty far down the road of divorce and some even divorce and remarry. The turning point isn't remorse or tears or apologies ~ the initial turning point is 'no contact', followed by a month or two of 'withdrawal'; hopefully followed by repentance. So 'no contact' is goal number one.


----------



## caruso

OnTheRocks said:


> I respectfully disagree, especially as a male. People tend to be biased and assume divorces were caused by something the husband did or did not do. It's been 5 years, and I still get a kick out of the look on mutual friends' faces when I tell them the real reason.


Who cares what other people think?

I sure wouldn't. 

Except maybe some close friends and relatives who would know the truth anyway.



Chaparral said:


> That hasn't been the experience on this or other infidelity forums. Infidelity thrives in the dark. Shedding light on cheaters more often than not destroys the affair particularly if reconciliation is desired.


I'm aware that the experience on most infidelity forums is "if you want to try to save the marriage and get the cheater back into his or her own bed then expose the affair and break them out of the fog and then after they are done kicking and screaming they just might settle down and learn the error of their ways and get therapy and get fixed and the two parties will go on to live out the rest of their days in holy matrimony."

I'm guessing that despite the frequency of this strategy being utilized, true success rates are rather low.

On the other hand, in the high likelihood of divorce, pissing off the wayward partner is almost a guarantee of an expensive, protracted, contested litigation. 

I don't believe there are too many situations where the best course of action is to expose and try to fix what's broken, rather than simply file for divorce.


----------



## OnTheRocks

caruso said:


> Who cares what other people think?
> 
> I sure wouldn't.
> 
> Except maybe some close friends and relatives who would know the truth anyway.


Because I don't believe in forgiveness. I'm good at letting things roll off my back, unless you destroy something that was very important to me. Do something like that to me and the gloves are off, forever.


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## bandit.45

Jefe is on the darks side of the moon right now. Slings and arrows.

Good luck jefe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso

OnTheRocks said:


> Because I don't believe in forgiveness. I'm good at letting things roll off my back, unless you destroy something that was very important to me. Do something like that to me and the gloves are off, forever.


What does not believing in forgiveness have to do with caring what other people think?


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## WorkingOnMe

Even though she's pissed right now, chances are she's going to try for reconciliation. Especially if the exposure gets her out of the fog. Also, especially if you expose her OM at work and he dumps her. 

But let's get one thing straight: if you want to take her back (only after she begs) then the first condition is no contact. And in this situation I believe that means she has to quit her job and maybe quit nursing.


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## straightshooter

She quit her job once I believe and just took the affair underground. So now that they are not working together and still at it I don't see where the previous employer is going to care UNLESS she files a com[laint, and that ain't going to happen.

She's already shown she will not stop the affair, and if she gets out of nursing to a much less lucrative occupation he may pay more in divorce. This doctor is accomplished cheater and where she works or does not means nothing at this point.

The docs wife should know but if docs wife is a SAHM she will probably just suck it up to avoid giving her her probably oppoulant lifestyle. 

Jefe needs to file and implement shock and awe at its zenith. And if he even contemplates R he better find a poly examiner and tell his wife she will become a frequent flyer there.


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## TRy

caruso said:


> Who cares what other people think?


 "Who cares what other people think?" The honest answer to this is that everyone cares. If people are truthful, we would acknowledge that how we dress, the cars that we buy, were we live, and many other things, are all influenced to some degree by what other people think. After a divorce, if you want your friends, family, and coworkers to feel comfortable introducing you to potential prospects (better source than bars), they will feel better doing this, and your story will sound better to the potential prospect, if they think that you divorced because you were cheated on, and not because you do not value the commitment of marriage as being a lifetime commitment for better or for worse.


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## caruso

TRy said:


> your story will sound better to the potential prospect, if they think that you divorced because you were cheated on, and not because you do not value the commitment of marriage as being a lifetime commitment for better or for worse.


If you're explaining the situation to a potential dating or relationship partner, and you do it honestly, then they'll accept it at face value (pending verification by friends and relatives at a later date). Those are the important people, and they have already known the truth from day one, and not because of any "exposure". They know because, well, they care. 

As far as what people think, about how you dress and what kind of car you drive, sure it may matter depending on who you need to impress, and that's probably depending on your occupation. But the rest is optional. On my days off I dress like crap, I don't shave, and when I go into a supermarket people may look at me like I'm a homeless guy. Ok maybe that's an exaggeration but the point being I really don't care what the average Joe thinks. 

I lived in a simple basic condominium after my divorce even though I could afford much more because that's all I needed and I didn't care what people might think of my choice of home. 

I choose my cars because I like the style and how they ride, not what people will think when they see me driving them. 

But your mileage may vary.


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## OnTheRocks

I wear shorts whenever possible, drive a 20 year old Saturn sedan daily, and have a hot gf 9 years my junior. I really don't care what people think, unless they have done me seriously wrong. Those few folks are lucky to be alive.


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## bandit.45

I hope she didn't off him.


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## jefe123

bandit.45 said:


> I hope she didn't off him.


lol. She didn't off me. I'm going to try to address a few things that keep being brought up. He's not a dr. He's a paramedic on an ambulance. A total loser who is a manipulator who cheated on his first wife and has been divorced twice by 25. 

My wife told me(and trust me, i'm not giving her a pass on anything, just explaining her reasoning) that she led him to believe lots of stuff during the affair, that she knew was never true. That they might be together, they could have a future, and when i forced her to stop cold turkey talking to him, she lasted a couple weeks both times, then when he came to her crying, she re-entered the relationship, on speaking terms only(i can't verify this 100%, but i'm pretty confident). She said a 3 months ago they were talking daily, then over the past couple months, it went from once every couple of days, to once or twice a week. She said she was dwindling it down so she could end it on her terms, and be confident she would be able to stay away from affair. She expressed thats why i heard what i heard on VAR(i didn't tell her how i know what was said, but i'm guessing she has some clue). They talked about his classes, his work, her work, and then hung up. I was expecting "i miss you, i wish i could see you" there was none of that and she had no idea i was able to hear, so i'm guessing those things were no longer said.

This doesn't change how i feel currently. I know she choose his feelings over mine. I asked her to stop and she didn't. She told me "i felt i could end it on my terms, not be caught by you and our life could resume". She didn't understand how being in that relationship in any was was still affecting us greatly. 

SHe's calmed down greatly from the angry hornet I experienced after exposure. Shes sleeping upstairs, with absolutely no time table or discussion of her ever coming back down. It's hard having her up there, but if she moves out then i immediately have to see my kids half the time. I'd rather us cohabitate than that right now. SHe says no matter what i want, or if i want a divorce, that by saturday,tomorrow, she is going to end it on her terms with him once and for all. Said she could do it in 4 messages. I said that's great, but doesn't change how i feel. At this point, i want a big time separation, if not divorce. However, saying that, if she ends it, and i see some changes in her while she's upstairs, i won't say i am completely against a future try between us some day. That day won't be soon, but it's not impossible. 

I'm just playing my cards close to my chest and letting her kind of stew. She still calls me every morning just like her routine has been for 5 years. texts throughout the day. I feel she is doing that to make sure i know she's thinking about me and because it's what she knows i want. I can't be sure of anything with her right now. I visited with an attorney a few days ago to get my ducks in a row regarding what information i should collect and what i shouldn't. 

I feel calm and ok with everything. I'm not sure why. She put his feelings over mine and our kids many times. It's not hard to walk away in the face of that. If things work out down the road, then that would be cool, but I understand how i can be happy and healthy without this baggage and memories in my life. I love my wife, but right now, need time to be me and be a dad to my kids i haven't been the last 2.5 months going through all this.

You guys support has been incredible. I'm still reading some posts that encourage me and hope the discussion continues. I'll definitely continue to post updates as often as anything new pops up.


----------



## Tobyboy

What a bunch of horse$hit!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart

3 months after d day you're still cut off sexually, talking about "ending" it. That is classic bull she fed you. These WW always talk about closure. There is no closure. It's an excuse to continue the relationship. 

Seeing the father of her children crushed didn't faze her. Getting caught by a PI didn't stop her but now she needs to send him 4 messages? Does any of this pass the smell test to you? I know you so desperately want to believe the PA is over but we've seen this SO MANY times on this and similar boards. She blew up because you exposed her beautiful love affair to the light of day. She doesn't want to give up on her soulmate. 

Have you confronted POS? Nothing will stiffen your spine more than confronting this POS and putting the fear of God in him.


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## farsidejunky

Why do you believe her, Jefe?


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## convert

I say more exposure is needed


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## jefe123

farsidejunky said:


> Why do you believe her, Jefe?


I definitely don't believe her. It will take clear changes in attitude and actions to ever convince me. That's why i'm saying i'm moving forward pursuing a D, but won't say i'd be opposed to R if things presented themselves down the line. Nothing she can say will convince me she is ending it. It will take weeks and months of her showing me. Unfortunately, idk if i'll be around long enough to see that.


----------



## farsidejunky

What did you say to her when she said she wanted another day and 4 messages to break it off?


----------



## TRy

jefe123 said:


> Shes sleeping upstairs, with absolutely no time table or discussion of her ever coming back down. It's hard having her up there, but if she moves out then i immediately have to see my kids half the time. I'd rather us cohabitate than that right now. SHe says no matter what i want, or if i want a divorce, that by saturday,tomorrow, she is going to end it on her terms with him once and for all.


 What you just said above is that:

1) You are in a sexless marriage. What she had with him is still on her mind.

2) That "no matter what" you want, "she is going to end it on her terms" and not yours. She has no remorse and feels that she owes you nothing, as it is still all about her as what you want does not matter.

3) Ending it with her affair partner on her terms, could mean that she does it so as to leave the door open for a possible future together after she sorts things out.

4) That as of today, she had not ended it with him "once and for all". Thus, as of today she had even take the first step in trying to save the marriage.

I fail to see her doing any of the heavy lifting needed for her to earn the right to even ask you for another chance.


----------



## bandit.45

I'm glad you're still alive chief. You had me worried. 

Ask her to move her sorry ass out. It will be better for you and the kids. 

She's not remorseful, or even one bit sorry. She's sorry in the same way a person tells you they are sorry for letting their dog sh!t on your lawn. She's appeasing you. 

The reason you feel at peace is because you went and saw a lawyer and got the information you needed. You protected your reputation by exposing her. You took a stand with her, drew your line in the sand and told her "no further"! You reclaimed your power. Feels good doesn't it? Now protect it. Never give it back. Guard it with jealousy and venom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lostinthought61

jefe123 said:


> I definitely don't believe her. It will take clear changes in attitude and actions to ever convince me. That's why i'm saying i'm moving forward pursuing a D, but won't say i'd be opposed to R if things presented themselves down the line. Nothing she can say will convince me she is ending it. It will take weeks and months of her showing me. Unfortunately, idk if i'll be around long enough to see that.


Again i ask what is she doing to keep this marriage...all i am hearing is that it is all about him or her but not about you, the kids or both of you....no heavy lifting.

don't rest you life on bread crumbs


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## WorkingOnMe

Think about it. If she was really concerned for her marriage she'd be in full on panic mode right now. She'd have ended the relationship immediately and permanently. None of this "on my terms" bs. The fact is, her actions are those of a person who isn't really sorry or concerned about what she has done or what she's losing. She feels like she's being dragged kicking and screaming from her affair. And she likely resents you for putting an end to it. Any crocodile tears she's showing now are just that....for show.


----------



## Chaparral

I've been here a few years now. If we had a contest to pick the worst cases of false reconciliation and playing the betrayed husband, your wife would be a close second to the worst one.

Her affair never slowed down much less stopped. Let everyone you exposed to know she is still in the affair and the divorce is full steam ahead.

She thinks she can play you because you didn't dump her the first time. Is she right?

I'm rarely surprised by cheaters any more but your wife takes the cake.


----------



## jsmart

A breast feeding mother having a sexual PA is one of the saddest things I've read on here. For this woman to continue to talk about "ending" it on her terms after a 3rd day when they have a freaking baby in the house is a new low at TAM. 

For her to look into Jefe's obviously broken hearted eyes and be so fvcking heartless just floors me. Her husband of x years and father of her children takes a distant 2nd to this POS that she's know for less than a year.


----------



## bandit.45

jsmart said:


> A breast feeding mother having a sexual PA is one of the saddest things I've read on here. For this woman to continue to talk about "ending" it on her terms after a 3rd day when they have a freaking baby in the house is a new low at TAM.
> 
> For her to look into Jefe's obviously broken hearted eyes and be so fvcking heartless just floors me. Her husband of x years and father of her children takes a distant 2nd to this POS that she's know for less than a year.


Pretty normal actually.

There have been men treated worse. Dingerdad, LuvMyJava....


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## bandit.45

Jefe...start acting like you are already divorced. Start working out like a maniac, cook for yourself and eat good nutritious food, start going out on Friday nights and leave her with the kids. You have to retrain your brain now. Start referring to her as your ex-wife. Start thinking as if you are already a single man. No more snooping, no more spying. Get that divorce going full speed and leave her in the dust. 

Get in shape, buy yourself some slick new threads, start going out and meeting people, flirt with women....it's the best way to heal....by starting your new life now. And when you have the kids, be the best dad you can be.


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## jsmart

Totally agree with Bandit. Time to for a complete overhaul. It starts with the renewing of your mind. Not to sound corny but you need to develop the eye of the tiger. Marriage and fatherhood has softened you. It's time to develop your inner warrior.

Hit the gym HARD. Go buy yourself some new threads. Get a quality haircut and make sure your hygiene is on point.

Many times we men cut off friendships to put all our focus on our families but that isolate you. No need to rush into dating but you do need to socialize. Getting involved in a hobby that can get you out and interacting with others is a great way to develop new friendships. If you have some buddies that you haven't talk to in a while, reach out to them. TAM is a great resource but you need people in real life.


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## jsmart

The divorce process takes time but don't extended it with hesitation. Have her served at work. It does a number on WWs to be served in front of their co-workers. Major psychological blow. I've witnessed it with 2 women at 2 different jobs. Both were waywards that treated their husband coldly. When they got served the total breakdown was shocking.

Also it's time to separate the finances and close any joint credit cards. Make sure she's paying at least her fair share of the bills. None of this you pay the bills and her money is for wh0ring. And lastly don't turn yourself into the free babysitter while she goes out with POS. Get busy with your life. If nothing is going on, then go to the freaking bookstore or library to kill some time, don't sit at home all depressed.


----------



## Thor

Strike now, strike hard. You can hope she comes around and somehow becomes fully invested in creating a new great marriage with you, but prepare for and work towards the more likely scenario that she isn't going to do that. File for divorce with terms that are fully advantageous to you. Document whatever you need to, per your lawyer, to make those things happen.

You have two possible paths ahead, but you don't know which will come to be. You may end up divorced, or you may end up with a successful R with her. Odds are against the latter, but it could happen. Your best bet to make that happen is shock and awe right now, which means filing for D. The most likely path is you will end up divorced. So work with your atty to set up for the best possible outcome in D.


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## Tatsuhiko

You said you were interested in a possible separation. Don't do this. Go full throttle with the divorce. You can stop it at any point during the process. 

She's walked all over you, testing how much you'll put up with. Divorce proceedings will show her that it's time to take things seriously. And, as others in here can attest to, a separation will only give her a chance to hook up with other men. You're already separated, for all intents and purposes, and look where it got you.


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## jsmart

@Tatsuhiko is right. Separation is definitely a bad move and in theory the past 3 months of the sexless false R has been like an in home separation already. What have you gotten for your patience? An adulterous woman that has taken this further underground. Here you are probably moving heaven and earth to earn her affections while she's still stepping out. You caught a conversation that didn't have any sexual or love talk but that doesn't mean that she's still not hooking up with this guy.

This woman has done nothing that should make you hesitate to go full steam ahead to divorce. She has not only betrayed you but her children too. After a 3rd Dday, to have the nerve to talk about ending it on her terms is the ultimate in haughty arrogance. I know you don't want your kids growing up in a broken home but some women are just determined to be single moms.

We just had another BH who's WW insisted in having a good bye in person. The BH allowed it. She spent 5 hours saying goodbye alone, while the husband is sneaking around with their 4 kids, including a 2 year old in the car. Please don't be that guy.


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## caruso

jsmart said:


> We just had another BH who's WW insisted in having a good bye in person. The BH allowed it. She spent 5 hours saying goodbye alone, while the husband is sneaking around with their 4 kids, including a 2 year old in the car.


Well you know, it's because this time they really mean it.


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## morituri

Jefe, let's do a very simple experiment and see what results can come from it. If the roles were reversed and you fed your wife the same manure she fed you, do you think she would be agreeable to it? You know her better than us, what would her reaction be?


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## straightshooter

I hope no one is betting their 401K that her "closure" meeting is anything nut a hoax until she figures out how to do it again.

Jefe, if you reconcile with her without her taking a polygraph at least twice in the next year, you are asking for some big time hurt, as if you do not have that already. You should have left the VAR in car and you would have found out it is bull **** they are only talking once a week.

And how on earth are you supposed to know what happens at this "closure". ???Believe her ???


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## WorkingOnMe

jsmart said:


> Totally agree with Bandit. Time to for a complete overhaul. It starts with the renewing of your mind. Not to sound corny but you need to develop the eye of the tiger. Marriage and fatherhood has softened you. It's time to develop your inner warrior.
> 
> 
> 
> Hit the gym HARD. Go buy yourself some new threads. Get a quality haircut and make sure your hygiene is on point.
> 
> 
> 
> Many times we men cut off friendships to put all our focus on our families but that isolate you. No need to rush into dating but you do need to socialize. Getting involved in a hobby that can get you out and interacting with others is a great way to develop new friendships. If you have some buddies that you haven't talk to in a while, reach out to them. TAM is a great resource but you need people in real life.




And a motorcycle wouldn't hurt. I'm partial to BMWs myself.


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## ABHale

You need to read up on the 180 plan. 

You need to have her served with divorce papers, even if you try to work it out.

You need to find a new wife. This one is broken. Only married 5 years and she can't keep her knee's together.


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## PhillyGuy13

Here are 4 messages for her:

1. You're a liar
2. Move out
3. Divorce
4. Never call me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## salparadise

jefe123 said:


> I feel calm and ok with everything. I'm not sure why. She put his feelings over mine and our kids many times. It's not hard to walk away in the face of that. If things work out down the road, then that would be cool, but I understand how i can be happy and healthy without this baggage and memories in my life. I love my wife, but right now, need time to be me and be a dad to my kids i haven't been the last 2.5 months going through all this.


You're feeling calm because you've integrated certain opposing realities that were impossible to hold in the consciousness at the same time. Like that your dear lovely wife, and mother of your children, to whom you've devoted your entire being, could be a cold, calculating cheater and liar, apparently without conscience or remorse. And that the only reason it still isn't going on is that you caught her multiple times. Those are hard realities to deal with, but once you accept that it is what it is at least your anxiety wanes and you can get back to functioning. 

Making the decision to file for divorce is huge. It's equivalent to taking back the self that got trashed when she cut you off and started banging the other guy. You're still trying to hold onto a tiny piece of the past by saying that you might consider reconciling at some point in the future, but I think you know that once the break is made and you start living fully again, you'll no longer be interested in round #2 with her. How could you ever trust or respect her again? It would never be the same.

Divorce is hard while you're going through it, but once you're done there is clear sailing on the other side... a chance to build a new life that's really worth having instead of the big compromise. You're going to wake up one morning with the realization that your life is valuable, and you're absolutely worthy of real love and companionship... no more looking back over your shoulder, trying to turn disgust into a marriage worth having. 

I think you should be moving forward with the D and begin giving up the little fantasies about who you thought she was or wanted her to be.


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## bandit.45

Yeah I didn't take into consideration the shortness of their marriage. She's already cheating within five years? 

Aw hell no....


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## GusPolinski

She needs 4 messages to end things w/ OM?

Bullsh*t.

If she wanted to, she could've ended it with a single message.

But she didn't _want_ to end it.

Oh... and she's not been seeing OM but still hasn't been having sex w/ you? Not even HB?

She might be having sex w/ _someone else_.

As in _another_ OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza

jefe123 said:


> I definitely don't believe her. It will take clear changes in attitude and actions to ever convince me. That's why i'm saying i'm moving forward pursuing a D, but won't say i'd be opposed to R if things presented themselves down the line. Nothing she can say will convince me she is ending it. It will take weeks and months of her showing me. Unfortunately, idk if i'll be around long enough to see that.


The thing is, people who are having affairs lie. You can't trust a thing they say. You are seeing that now. Why should you believe she will end it at some future time, and was planning to anyway, when she has claimed to have ended it more than once before? 

To me the telling thing about her latest story is that she thought she could keep going and you would never find out. If she genuinely believes that what matters is whether you find out, not whether she keeps her promises, then I just don't see how she will ever be someone you can trust. She sees deceiving you as a valid approach if it lets her do what she wants. She is looking for a lie that will stick.

I'm not telling you what to do. I reconciled, for the sake of the kids. But I warn you, once you learn she can look you in the eye and lie to you, something changes, and it stays changed forever. You will never totally trust her again. How you deal with that that can make or break any reconciliation.

At the very least, keep gathering evidence, and measure what she says against what you know. If you keep catching her in lies it is an answer.


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## jsmart

Wow, I didn't catch that they were only married 5 years. Which includes the pregnancy, 1st year of baby, and 8 month affair. That this woman is still fighting for her soulmate after a 3rd Dday and a young child at home, tells me this is no salvageable. 

I could have sworn that OP mentioned another older kid. I hope he can clarify. How many kids, and their ages. If they're older than 5 then it must mean that he married a single mom. If she was a single mom, was she married and what caused that marriage to fail? So many divorce women run with the he was abusive meme that I think it's used to hide past infidelity.

Jefe, you know who this POS is. Why haven't you confronted him?


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## ABHale

Jefe, how long have the two of you been married? I thought I read five years but I can not find that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TX-SC

It seems to me that you are on the right track. Keep moving forward with the divorce but understand that things can change if she puts forth the effort. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like she is likely to do that. Concentrate on you and the kids.


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## Palodyne

She doesn't need four attempts to get closure.


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## jsmart

I've noticed that WWs are obsessed with closure. Read so many threads from WWs who pine away for sometimes years for a PA of a few months. The amount of emotional energy these women spend pining away for their OM is incredible. Makes you wonder what their husband, kids, and employers get.

As for this WW, she's not going to end this. Remember Walleye's WW and her 5 hour good bye while he's in the car with their 4 kids. We all know that was a last ditch effort to try to entice Dr Feelgood to leave his marriage for her. We stopped hearing from Walleye, but I imagine he's in a false R, which is what will probably await Jefe if he buys his WW's lies. 

I truly hope I'm wrong and that his WW has a change of heart and fights for her marriage and family but I've read too many similar threads here as well LS and SI.


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## TDSC60

I would tell her you want to see the infamous 4 messages.

Incidentally, when she says she does not feel right initiating sex, she means she does not feel like initiating sex with YOU. WWs typically feel like they are cheating on their one true love, the OM, if they have sex with their betrayed husbands.


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## caruso

jefe123 said:


> I definitely don't believe her. It will take clear changes in attitude and actions to ever convince me. That's why i'm saying i'm moving forward pursuing a D, but won't say i'd be opposed to R if things presented themselves down the line. Nothing she can say will convince me she is ending it. It will take weeks and months of her showing me. Unfortunately, idk if i'll be around long enough to see that.


You know what this sounds like to me?

"I really hope she shows the slightest inclination to change and maybe even show remorse because the last thing I want is to divorce her, and if she just gives me the slightest reason to stick around I will do it. Unfortunately for me she isn't the least bit remorseful although she's made a decent attempt to try to show she is, but I'm going to give it time. Weeks, months or even more if that's what it takes despite the fact that she's clearly continuing to disrespect me by lying to me even now, and showing her lack of commitment to reconciliation by refusing sex with me, and going back to him at least once after promising me it was over. I don't want to make her more angry than she already is because I exposed the affair and still second guess my decision to do so, and I will not openly threaten divorce or kick her out, because I'm afraid if I do that she'll run back to the other man and I'll lose her altogether."

And I'll bet it sounds that way to her too.

The whole "I'm letting it dwindle down slowly so I can end it on my own terms with 4 messages necessary" is one of the biggest lines of BS fed to a betrayed spouse that I've ever had the displeasure to read on this forum.

What the heck do you say to her when she feeds you these BS lines? How about "No!. One message, that says "Goodbye and never contact me again". 

Why are you so reluctant to put your foot down and act like the strong, independent man she wants and needs you to be? Every time you fail to act forcefully you are shooting yourself in the foot.


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## jefe123

SHe's sleeping upstairs and we've kept contact to a minimum. SHe still texts me and wants to communicate like it was before. I know she is making sure she keeps me on the line. I haven't mentioned one thing about our relationship or the affair. I learned from counseling that i am a serious pursuer and she's a distancer. I figured i would at least go out not repeating the same mistakes i've made in the past. So i have been ignoring all the issues and letting her know that I've finally had it. She text me saturday night and said "I sent the message. It's over." I just said "ok good". i know she assumed i'd ask a million questions and pry for information. I just don't have energy or desire for that anymore. She goes to counseling again tomorrow, i hope it continues to provide her clarity. As for me, i am going to rent a storage locker soon and start moving some of our stuff in there. We need to begin to decide what i want vs what she wants. We need to sell our house, neither can afford without the other. I hope this process kicks her into gear if shes going to be, i'd hate to back out after paying attorney. I have no false hope of R. I assume now i'm headed for D. If things change, that will be ok.


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## bandit.45

Don 't back out. I can tell you right now, if she wanted to save this marriage she would be at your feet begging you not to break up with her. She would be moving heaven and earth to do anything you needed her to do to feel like she was a safe bet. But she's not doing that. We have seen truly remorseful spouses on this site...people who are achingly desperate to save their marriages...and she is not one of them. 

So she's a "distancer"? What that really means is she is a prideful, stubborn, egotistical person who will not admit she is wrong even if it means she loses everything. This is not the kind of person who needs to be married. Marriage requires teamwork, sacrifice and compromise, which she has shown is unable to do. 

Now that you have exposed her to her parents, continue with friends and extended family. DO NOT LET HER SPREAD LIES AND RUIN YOUR REPUTATION in your social circles. 

Let the divorce ride. Have her served and continue detaching and separating your assets. Tuck yourself snugly under your lawyer's wing and stay there. STFU and keep quiet. 

You are doing fine jefe. I know you feel like you are not, but you will get through this. And I guarantee in six months you will be back here telling us how, as you look back on your marriage and her past behavior, you cannot believe you put up with her crap for so long.


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## ABHale

Stop answering her text. 

Read up on 180. 

Also read "No More Mister Nice Guy".


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## samyeagar

Be ready for the roller coaster from her. Once the reality sets in for her that you actually are ready to let the marriage go, there will be the begging, crying, anger, lashing out, pretty much an all out emotional assault on you from every angle imaginable. It will not be remorse. It will be desperation.


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## harrybrown

Do not rugsweep this.

keep pushing for the D. If she is really remorseful, which I doubt, have her write a timeline and diary of all her affairs.

Get tested for stds, have her out her OM at work. She also must change jobs. 

Have her sign a post nup agreement. But your best decision it to D and kick her out.

She won't have sex with you. She is having sex with others.


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## becareful2

She's not genuinely remorseful at all. Don't even respond to her texts, not even "ok good."

Go through with the divorce and continue to expose. Keep a VAR (voice activated recorder) with you in case she sets you up with a false domestic violence charge.


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## Tobyboy

harrybrown said:


> Do not rugsweep this.
> 
> keep pushing for the D. If she is really remorseful, which I doubt, have her write a timeline and diary of all her affairs.
> 
> Get tested for stds, have her out her OM at work. She also must change jobs.
> 
> Have her sign a post nup agreement. But your best decision it to D and kick her out.
> 
> She won't have sex with you. She is having sex with *others*.


Yup. Sounds like there's another OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter

jefe123 said:


> SHe's sleeping upstairs and we've kept contact to a minimum. SHe still texts me and wants to communicate like it was before. I know she is making sure she keeps me on the line. I haven't mentioned one thing about our relationship or the affair. I learned from counseling that i am a serious pursuer and she's a distancer. I figured i would at least go out not repeating the same mistakes i've made in the past. So i have been ignoring all the issues and letting her know that I've finally had it.* She text me saturday night and said "I sent the message. It's over." I just said "ok good". i know she assumed i'd ask a million questions and pry for information. I just don't have energy or desire for that anymore.* She goes to counseling again tomorrow, i hope it continues to provide her clarity. As for me, i am going to rent a storage locker soon and start moving some of our stuff in there. We need to begin to decide what i want vs what she wants. We need to sell our house, neither can afford without the other. I hope this process kicks her into gear if shes going to be, i'd hate to back out after paying attorney. I have no false hope of R. I assume now i'm headed for D. If things change, that will be ok.



So she met him in person and sent 4 messages. Unless you are determined to divorce and do not change your mind i suggest you demand to see the message and find out if she met him and then tell her she's taking a polygraph if she has any intention of living with you.

if you stay too tired and somehow wind up with her you will be wondering for years.


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## Wazza

jefe123 said:


> SHe's sleeping upstairs and we've kept contact to a minimum. SHe still texts me and wants to communicate like it was before. I know she is making sure she keeps me on the line. I haven't mentioned one thing about our relationship or the affair. I learned from counseling that i am a serious pursuer and she's a distancer. I figured i would at least go out not repeating the same mistakes i've made in the past. So i have been ignoring all the issues and letting her know that I've finally had it. She text me saturday night and said "I sent the message. It's over." I just said "ok good". i know she assumed i'd ask a million questions and pry for information. I just don't have energy or desire for that anymore. She goes to counseling again tomorrow, i hope it continues to provide her clarity. As for me, i am going to rent a storage locker soon and start moving some of our stuff in there. We need to begin to decide what i want vs what she wants. We need to sell our house, neither can afford without the other. I hope this process kicks her into gear if shes going to be, i'd hate to back out after paying attorney. I have no false hope of R. I assume now i'm headed for D. If things change, that will be ok.


What does "I hope this process kicks her into gear" mean? What are you hoping for?


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## SunCMars

jefe123 said:


> i exposed to her parents and shes furious. I won't lie and kind of hoped in a few months of separation if things got better maybe we could try to R. She seems to disagree right now. I was set on divorce anyways, i just hate she's now so hostile. IDK if exposure was the right move or not. At least we were civil.


She got mad because she knows what she did is wrong. Let that sink in. She is not an innocent participant. She willfully cheated. One might forgive a drunken slip up, especially if true remorse is shown afterwards.

She went into this affair, behind your back, with her behind exposed to another man.

She lied, kept you in limbo while she and her POSOM carried on like nothing BAD had occured. This is what gets under my skin.

I understand that one partner can fall out of love and then miss intimacy with someone that they have passion and love for.

Be honest, get divorced and then follow your heart.

And then, any pain that you cause can be faced in daylight, in the mirror of public opinion and to your children.

Be honorable.........rather.....honor-able. You have that option, almost always. Certain countries, not so much.


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## ABHale

Hey Jefe123, what's going on man?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars

samyeagar said:


> Be ready for the roller coaster from her. Once the reality sets in for her that you actually are ready to let the marriage go, there will be the begging, crying, anger, lashing out, pretty much an all out emotional assault on you from every angle imaginable. It will not be remorse. It will be desperation.


Sorry Sam.

I doubt it. This is wishful thinking. The anger part, maybe.

She is into herself.......so far that her innards are outers. 

Her Motto: Ego....I go....you stink!

To decent folk she appears surreal...........in reality, she is cerebral...to a fault. Not enough empathy.


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## weltschmerz

samyeagar said:


> Be ready for the roller coaster from her. Once the reality sets in for her that you actually are ready to let the marriage go, there will be the begging, crying, anger, lashing out, pretty much an all out emotional assault on you from every angle imaginable. It will not be remorse. It will be desperation.


That said, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Jefe, most of the blokes here who've been through the wringer will tell you that "Losing all hope was freedom".


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## bandit.45

weltschmerz said:


> That said, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
> 
> Jefe, most of the blokes here who've been through the wringer will tell you that "Losing all hope was freedom".


Yep. Letting go of the outcome. I hope that is what jefe is doing.


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