# Threesomes and so fourth.



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I have been reading a few threads recently about threesomes and foursomes and the negative effect they have had on some marriages and long term relationships.

I have also seen that there are posters who say that it has actually enriched their marriages.

I am trying to figure out what drives a married couple to want to venture into this type of sexual experimentation.

I am struggling , trying to understand how could a man derive sexual pleasure from seeing his wife having sex with another man, and vice versa.

How does this type of arrangement work?
How exactly does it help build sexual intimacy?

In my opinion, there is an emotional and a deep psychological connections that takes place during sex .

Is the pleasure to be had from these type of arrangements really worth the risk to the relationship?
I would really appreciate if we can have an open discussion

I would really like to hear the reasons from both camps.

1]Those who think it can work, based on the people involved.
2]Those who are against it .


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm also very against it for many reasons. To me, sex is something to be shared between two people who care deeply for each other. I have only ever had sex with my husbands, for that reason. It's an emotional connection for me. I don't even really enjoy masturbation all that much, just because it's not with my hubby. It's just to 'get off' which is how I see the threesome experience. Unless you're into polyamoury, I guess, which is a whole nother ball o wax.

I am also very possessive of my husband. I know how I felt when he cheated. I can only imagine how much worse it would be to actually see him with another woman. And to be with another man for him to see would make me feel like trash.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If I had to sit and watch my husband bang another chick. Holy crap. I'd go mentally insane. I didn't make babies with this man, or build a life with this man, for him to go screw another woman. If it was part of our plans, I never would have married.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I see it as disrespect for one's partner. The thought of it makes me want to throw up.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I can't imagine watching my husband with another woman. I'd probably hurt her. And then him!

When you do this in a marriage, you open a Pandora's Box. I think most people are unprepared for the aftermath. You can't undo the images. Very few people can handle the images and being able to handle the images doesn't mean you're stronger or your marriage is better. I think it means you don't care that much about your partner. What you value, you don't share it with everyone else.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Men like variety. To many men, having more notches on their belt seems to reinforce their studliness (that is untrue. It is having a lot of women WANT you which proves you're studly)

There is also the factor of being so manly that you can talk your wife into adding another woman to the mix. Man, you're controlling your b*tches!

Because for most men, they want a FMF. As you can see, most women are horrified at the prospect.

There is an odd variety of males who, for whatever reason, also like the idea of a MFM. Maybe they feel it's the price they need to pay for an FMF. Maybe they want to see their woman EXPLODE as they get, not one, but TWO penises! Maybe they want to see what their woman looks like with the O face from another perspective. Maybe they like humiliation. Or perhaps it's a control thing again (this woman is my wh0re! I can get her to do ANYTHING with ANYONE)

As most people can see, it either leads to strong feelings for the other person in one (or both) of the couple OR degrades the specialness of the sexual connection (Oh...if it's JUST sex, I guess I can tag that personal trainer down the street...)

My opinion, which is worth what you pay for it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok,
I appreciate all the answers, but I will like to add.
I know that this usually starts as a fantasy. 
No problem.

But what I would like to know is what causes a married couple to be so obsessed with it , that they cross over into reality with it?

Everybody so far seems repulsed by the idea.
But to me a lot of married people are actually doing it based on what I read here, and what I've heard people say in real life.

So, what would cause two people to be so open minded, and confident in their relationship ,that they entertain doing this?

Is it that they trust each other so much that they know even if their SO had sex with another, his / her heart or emotions still belongs to them?

Or is it that they understand that human beings see, desire and lust and so this is a " controlled " way of allowing each other to satisfy their lust without the deception of a hidden affair?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I wouldn't stay married to man who wanted to share me (there is no bigger insult in my eyes) and it would kill me to see him with another woman.

Sex and the intimacy that goes with it is what makes my relationship with my h different and special from all other relationships in my life. 

I had a couple of threesomes (one FMF and one MFM) in my teens.... they were fun/exciting because I never loved these fu*kbuddies. 

I love love love my man so these days any thoughts along these lines are kept in fantasy land only.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

People with open marriages say that it's the greatest thing in the world. All power to them, but I could never live like that. Especially with the mother of my children.


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## KnK (Oct 15, 2012)

I have to many jealousy issues I'm dealing with as it is. I'm sure it wouldn't work for my marriage!

Plus H get's mad if a guy stares at me to long lol so...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I have no data to support this, but generally it seems driven by ONE spouse. The other, for various lack of judgment or self esteem issues, is coerced into doing it. Or maybe they buy into the crap from Hollywood that tries to sell the meme 'Everyone is doing it. Why aren't you?'

I talked to one swinger. He was a single guy who was invited to couple swinger parties. He stated that generally, the husband pushed the wife into going. Well, a girl who f*cks is generally welcome everywhere, and the husband frequently regretted his decision, because the women were more popular then the men. This POS happily screwed anything that would let him while having the husband pay for them and deal with their crap.

He also stated that a lot of marriages going in were shakey.

Now, this doesn't translate automatically into threesomes and foursomes, but I'm betting there is some truth there too.

Also, don't ignore the attraction of being 'cutting edge' and 'sophisticated'. The problem with the cutting edge is it cuts.

Now maybe a FEW people can wrap their heads around this and still have a strong relationship. They are the exception, not the rule.

I once saw an armless woman drive a car with her feet. It's POSSIBLE. That doesn't mean it's a good idea for most people.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My GF of 20 months and I have had a 3.5 some and a MFM threesome. The first was about a year ago, the second was about 4 months ago. We've also been to two sex clubs. One where there was some interaction primarily between the ladies but it was mostly visual/mental, and the other was all mental/visual, with no interactions with any other guests. This weekend, we'll be attending a local sex club's "halloween hotel party", where we're meeting one couple for dinner first. 

First off, I love her a lot. It's not like we've got a FWB or FB type of relationship going on. The topic of marriage has come up recently, but neither of us is in any hurry. I could easily see spending the rest of my life with her, married or not. There won't be any kids between us anyway, so marriage seems to be more formality than anything. But having said all that, I fully acknowledge that we're not married.

For me, the multiple partner experiences have still very much been about my partner. We've discussed and agreed that we don't want separate sexual experiences. But I literally could not tell you what any of our mutual partners looked like, how well endowed they were, etc. We've also been very sensitive to either person's concerns, like a 20 year old hardbody.

As far as why I've done this... I love the erotic energy. I really really enjoy my partners pleasure. I've also enjoyed the new sexual partner experience; learning/experiencing a new body. I enjoy the sexual energy, watching and hearing other people, etc

Anyway, I'll answer specific questions about my personal experiences, if I think someone truly wants to have the answered.

C


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Okay. How many swingers do you know? How many have problems? How many divorces are there in the swinging and sharing scene in general?

I understand none of this applies to YOU. But you aren't the entire swinging scene.


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## KnK (Oct 15, 2012)

PBear said:


> My GF of 20 months and I have had a 3.5 some and a MFM threesome. The first was about a year ago, the second was about 4 months ago. We've also been to two sex clubs. One where there was some interaction primarily between the ladies but it was mostly visual/mental, and the other was all mental/visual, with no interactions with any other guests. This weekend, we'll be attending a local sex club's "halloween hotel party", where we're meeting one couple for dinner first.
> 
> First off, I love her a lot. It's not like we've got a FWB or FB type of relationship going on. The topic of marriage has come up recently, but neither of us is in any hurry. I could easily see spending the rest of my life with her, married or not. There won't be any kids between us anyway, so marriage seems to be more formality than anything. But having said all that, I fully acknowledge that we're not married.
> 
> ...


I have a legit question.. If ya'll were to get married do you think it would be a possibility for you to change your mind and not want anyone else included in sexual activity with your wife? Have ya'll discussed stopping if married?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

JCD said:


> Okay. How many swingers do you know? How many have problems? How many divorces are there in the swinging and sharing scene in general?
> 
> I understand none of this applies to YOU. But you aren't the entire swinging scene.


If you're talking to me, I know relatively few "swingers", and know even fewer of them well enough to know their marital happiness. So I can't really comment on that. But if you consider how many "regular" marriages end in divorce these days, not swinging is no certainty of a happy marriage.

As far as me not being "the entire swinging scene", I'm fully aware of that. I would never attempt to speak on this subject for anyone but me personally, and possibly what my GF has shared directly with me. And if you check many of the other "swinger" type threads, I think I'm much more likely to warn people away from swinging rather than remotely encouraging it. Too many people think they can use other people to spice up a marriage that's got a multitude of other issues, and the swinging is just going to amplify the problems, not fix them

C


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

KnK said:


> I have a legit question.. If ya'll were to get married do you think it would be a possibility for you to change your mind and not want anyone else included in sexual activity with your wife? Have ya'll discussed stopping if married?


I believe so. We've had to deal with uncomfortable subjects already, and both of us agree that the top priority is US. Everything else is secondary.

C


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

PBear said:


> As far as me not being "the entire swinging scene", I'm fully aware of that. I would never attempt to speak on this subject for anyone but me personally, and possibly what my GF has shared directly with me.
> C


Thank you for your response sir.
I do have a question.

You are in a long term relationship, and have experimented with threesomes, while in this present relationship.

As men , we both know how attraction works. Its not just about the other person being well endowed. Sometimes, the chemistry just flows instantly, and there is a connection.
have you ever experienced that with other sexual partners in the swinging scene?
And what safeguard do you have other than a promise from your partner that she would not be attracted to any other male she has sex with other than you?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

1]Those who think it can work, based on the people involved.

*It can work but both people have to be very honest and open with each other. Both parties have to want it. It cannot be about one person just trying to make the other happy. Most couples that I have seen it work for do not do just three somes unless it is with a paid perfessional. Others are usually older and are swingers that do couples swap only. There are less likely to be emotional ties that way.*

2]Those who are against it . 

*I am personally against it because I do not share well. Also my husband has already had an EA. I could not trust that he would not get emotionally involved.*


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

We've been considering one for a while in the future but all this stuff on here makes me reconsider the idea.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

If this fantasy would enhance a couple's intimacy then I'm all for what happens behind closed doors.

However in reading the numerous threads regarding how this fantasy can easily become a disaster when the couple crosses over from fantasy to ..... reality. With that being said it's without a doubt best for this to stay between the couple and enjoy it for what its worth


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Thank you for your response sir.
> I do have a question.
> 
> You are in a long term relationship, and have experimented with threesomes, while in this present relationship.
> ...


No, I haven't experienced that with any of our "other people", and as far as I know, neither has she. As far as safeguarding things go... How can you safeguard your spouse won't be attracted to the guy she works with 8 hours a day? And just because someone is attracted to someone else, does that mean she's going to cheat with them? What safeguard do you have from your spouse that she won't be attracted to another male?

So to give some more (possibly too much) information... Our 3.5some was with my GF's BFF and a "playmate" she brought (who didn't end up getting into the situation, which is why it's a 3.5some). I don't contact the BFF. In fact, I have no way of contacting her, like her cell number, e-mail address, etc. And I prefer to keep it that way. But to be honest, she wasn't really my "cup of tea" anyway... She was fun, but not someone I found incredibly attractive physically, and there was no emotional connection.

With the sex club people, we never got any contact information from them. I couldn't tell you what their names were, or pick them out of a police line-up. I did find the woman attractive, but my attention was focused on my lady.

With the MFM that we did... The guy was in another city that we were visiting on holidays. My GF had been chatting with him before she knew me, and had in fact met him once before when she was in his city, but nothing progressed beyond heavy petting. She obviously had an opportunity for a relationship with him if they desired it before, but they chose not to try that. We did have sex on camera for him once before. So when the opportunity came to visit his city and possibly fulfill my GF's fantasy of a threesome (she had done it once before), I thought I could handle it, so we gave it a try. I know they've talked, and all three of us have talked since then as well.

I guess I figure if someone is going to cheat on you, they're going to cheat on you. It's incredibly easy to find a willing sexual partner in today's Internet world, especially for a beautiful woman like my GF. Is there an increased risk because we've had sexual contact with other people while in this relationship? I guess so, but we both have past partners that we've had sex with in any case. And if nothing else, I know that our communication is much much healthier than I ever had in my marriage, so I feel like we're likely to be able to work things out before they become problems.

One thing that did come up recently was being approached by a guy in our area that wanted to join us as a threesome. We talked about it, and exchanged a few e-mails. But I was feeling uneasy about the situation... A single guy, in town (as opposed to half a country away)... So I talked to my GF about it, and together we declined the opportunity. No hard feelings about it on anyone's part. I wasn't made to feel overly jealous or insecure, and the emphasis was on our relationship, rather than one person's desires.

We also had to deal with some "fallout" after the 3.5some. After the other couple left, we were laying in bed, and I could tell something was bothering my GF. And then she said she had to get up and take a shower (at about 2 in the morning). I fell asleep before she got back in bed, and we ended up talking at 5 in the morning. We ended up working things out, and I think we were stronger because of it. It showed that we could talk about uncomfortable subjects and work out things, which was a huge improvement over our past relationships.

To make a long story longer... I guess I figure there's no way of stopping your partner from cheating on you, if that's what they get in their heads to do. I'm not a jealous person by nature, and can separate the emotions from sex when it comes to occasional "swinging" partners. I trust my GF can do the same, and we work at keeping our communication as open and honest as I've ever experienced.

C


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I am against it for my relationship, not against it in general. If others want to do it and can make it work, kudos to them.

The reason I think I'm against it is due to a few factors. Firstly, I was raised that marriage is one man, one woman, period. This applies number one to the marital bed. As such, the way I was raised, your wife was your only lover, and vice versa. Anything else was (for me) cheating. Period. 

Secondly, speaking of cheating, my ex-wife did a lot of that in our marriage. Mostly EA's, but I believe several may have evolved into PA's. I have no definitive proof of that, but that's my belief looking at things in hindsight. Why I stayed is a whole other story, but the fact is I was put through the ringer on a lot of affair related issues. I am now certified (in my own opinion) phobic of being cheated on again. I sturggle daily with that feeling, like I am doomed to get cheated on again and have to battle it constantly to have a fair relationship with my current fiancee, who has given me little to no reason to make me believe she is cheating or ever has. It's a constant battle for me and a huge insecurity for me.

Third reason is, I know I struggle with self-confidence relating to other men. I tend to view myself as lesser than many other men. Not all by any stretch, but I have a poor self-esteem on some things, so naturally the idea of letting some other dude hammer away on my fiancee and making her squeal doesn't really appeal to me.

So when you put those factors together, a sexual threesome or foursome (or moresome) doesn't appeal to me at all. While the idea of a FMF holds a slight fantasy appeal, I know that if it ever came to reality my fiancee would be perfectly correct to want a MFM threesome as well, and I'd have no grounds to stop it and, given the above listed problems I have, seeing her in a MFM would likely put me in the loony bin.


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Okay, I am a married man (11 years married). And I will be upfront and truthful in my response herein. First of all, I have been faithful to my only wife our entire 11 years.

However, the thought has ran into my mind about having a threesome, but of course, not with another guy involved. I personally think it would be exciting and erotic to have a threesome in a purely selfish and sexual way of thinking. I think most men would agree. There are men out there that have some fancy fetish watching their wives have sex with other men (remember the movie True Lies). I have also thought about this scario with my own wife, but I think I am too jealous to see my wife with another man. In this regards and I see how someone might enjoy watching their wife have sex with another man...its not the fact that a man is doing the act, but more taking an outside view and actually watching the wife get off. Its like watching a movie.

Sorry to get off topic about that. I think it boils down to fantasy and desire. Is it wrong...YES! Does the desire come in the form of temptation...YES! I believe in taking every though captive and not giving those evil thoughts a place to take root within my brain. Others could careless what they do, who they do it with, and what kind of diseases they get as a result.

Its all about commitment, trust, integrity, honor, and loyalty. Saying the words, "I do" means that the marriage bed needs to be undefiled! Threesomes and so on is just a fantasy that I am sure crosses the mind of every guy. My encouragement to those who either have or will have those desires to ponder and maybe pursue this fantasy, "Take every thought captive and flee youthful lusts!"


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I had a co-worker that was involved in swinging. As I am fascinated by it I asked a ton of questions. She told me often it was the husband that initiated the attempt at swinging with the wife being a bit reluctant. Strangely though the men would start to lose interest but it would be the women that wanted to continue. 

It seems in the lifestyle as they call it it's a close knit community. The couples get to know each other quite well. Very little of their time together is actually having sex. Most of it is parties, dinners etc. The women bond with the others as women tend to do and like to keep coming back for the social/emotional aspect of it. The men on the other hand have satisfied their curiousity about the physical aspect of it and start to worry about the bonding. 

I found it strange when this co-worker split with her husband because he had an affair...after all they were swingers. To her though although she had no problem watching him f another woman him sneaking around with his secretary was cheating.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I had a co-worker that was involved in swinging. As I am fascinated by it I asked a ton of questions. She told me often it was the husband that initiated the attempt at swinging with the wife being a bit reluctant. Strangely though the men would start to lose interest but it would be the women that wanted to continue.
> 
> It seems in the lifestyle as they call it it's a close knit community. The couples get to know each other quite well. Very little of their time together is actually having sex. Most of it is parties, dinners etc. The women bond with the others as women tend to do and like to keep coming back for the social/emotional aspect of it. The men on the other hand have satisfied their curiousity about the physical aspect of it and start to worry about the bonding.
> 
> I found it strange when this co-worker split with her husband because he had an affair...after all they were swingers. To her though although she had no problem watching him f another woman him sneaking around with his secretary was cheating.


In my relationship, it's my GF who initiated the idea. I wouldn't say she went as far as "pushing" it, though. I had no reluctance beyond the (continuing) worry about having the smallest penis is the room.  But my GF assures me that's not likely to be a problem, so it's all good.

It will be interesting this weekend, assuming it goes as we have loosely planned. We've never sat down with another experienced swinging couple, and this couple has said they know about 15 to 20 other couples at the party. 

As far as "lifestyle" goes, our discussions have been that it's fun to do something like this a few times a year, but it's not something we want to make a regular habit of.

C


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If I wasn't 100% invested and 'in' my marriage, an open marriage could work.

But...that's not the case.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I found it strange when this co-worker split with her husband because he had an affair...after all they were swingers. To her though although she had no problem watching him f another woman him sneaking around with his secretary was cheating.


I'd assume it's one thing to agree before hand to your spouse ****ing someone when you're in the room and consenting, and another to have your spouse sneak off and have sex with someon you don't know, nor know if they have any STD's, etc. Sex is sex in these situations I suspect, but one version here is openness and another is secretive. In a a marriage, secrets rarely turn out well.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I have been reading a few threads recently about threesomes and foursomes and the negative effect they have had on some marriages and long term relationships.
> 
> I have also seen that there are posters who say that it has actually enriched their marriages.
> 
> ...


I'm not for or against it regarding other people,they do what they think is best for themselves.

For me I wouldn't want it bc i think it makes the bond between me and partner seem cheap and breakable. 
If sex with my partner became so dull and so meaningless that I'd need an outsider to join us,that would tell me the relationship is over or needs some serious work. (keep in my i'm single right now but this applied when i was with my exSO.)

Others see it as natural to invite people into their sexual lives.They see it as freeing and a rewarding experience.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

that_girl said:


> If I wasn't 100% invested and 'in' my marriage, an open marriage could work.
> 
> But...that's not the case.


To me, there's a significant difference between an open marriage and swinging/*somes. One is done without your partner's involvement (you both do your own thing), the other one is with your partner. I wouldn't be down for an open marriage. And thus far, our discussion has been that no matter what's going on, we want to be close enough to reach out and touch each other. No separate rooms or anything. These may seem like a small points to someone else, but it's important to us.

C


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> 1]Those who think it can work, based on the people involved.
> 
> *It can work but both people have to be very honest and open with each other. Both parties have to want it. It cannot be about one person just trying to make the other happy. Most couples that I have seen it work for do not do just three somes unless it is with a paid perfessional. Others are usually older and are swingers that do couples swap only. There are less likely to be emotional ties that way.*
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm not for or against it regarding other people,they do what they think is best for themselves.
> 
> *For me I wouldn't want it bc i think it makes the bond between me and partner seem cheap and breakable.*
> If sex with my partner became so dull and so meaningless that I'd need an outsider to join us,that would tell me the relationship is over or needs some serious work.
> ...


I think based on the responses here, that it all comes down to how two people view sex?


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I think based on the responses here, that it all comes down to how two people view sex?


I suppose you are right in one sense. In the Christian religious sense, sex outside of marriage is forbidden and against God. Sex with someone other than your spouse is forbidden. That means no threesomes, homosexuality, incest, or bestiality!

If you have no morals and convictions, than who really cares what you do and who you do it with. If I had no morals, values, and convictions, I would screw around all I wanted and do whatever I wanted with whomever I wanted. Maybe the answer is to each one his or her own.

I choose to live my life by the convictions that are pressed upon my heart between right and wrong.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I think based on the responses here, that it all comes down to how two people view sex?


I think that's a huge part of it. It seems to me for some people sex is no more intimate than shaking hands. It's just something you do with other people. For others it's a sacred act. 

For me the fantasy is titillating. The reality would be filled with insecurity, jealousy and trepidation. I don't get the sense that once you let that genie out of the bottle it's something you can simply undo. You better be damn sure you know what your doing and boundaries are clearly established before you even consider making it a reality.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I think that's a huge part of it. It seems to me for some people sex is no more intimate than shaking hands. It's just something you do with other people. For others it's a sacred act.
> 
> For me the fantasy is titillating. The reality would be filled with insecurity, jealousy and trepidation. I don't get the sense that once you let that genie out of the bottle it's something you can simply undo.* You better be damn sure you know what your doing and boundaries are clearly established before you even consider making it a reality.*


..........and based on what I've read , quite a lot of people don't actually know what they're doing,and lack proper psychological boundaries.

18th Century Philosopher,Bertrand Russell once stated;

".......The trouble with the world is that the stupid are c0cksure and the intelligent are full of doubt......" 

I think that this type of lifestyle might work for some couples.They KNOW exactly what they are doing,and in control of the psychological aspects of the fantasy. They have contingencies to deal with the fallout.

I think PBear alluded to that in his post , when he made mention of a particular incident in which he was able to deal with an unexpected emotional fallout from his girlfriend, after an episode. The issue was amicably resolved.

But what always amazes me is when people get involved in it, f- up their marriages / lives and start to cast blame and aspersions all over the place except on themselves.

People who have tons of emotional baggage , certain types of religious views , unstable relationships should stay far from experimenting with this type of fantasy, IMO.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> .18th Century Philosopher,Bertrand Russell once stated;
> 
> ".......The trouble with the world is that the stupid are c0cksure and the intelligent are full of doubt......"


I never heard that quote before but I really like it. I agree with it wholeheartedly.


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

I will never think of this in my life, ever. I think I had enough insecurities now that I can't get over with.
And I never want the MFF either, because for me that is the same as cheating, even if my DW's ok with it (and I know she has some insecurities too as both of her ex-BF cheated on her.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

I've hinted a few times to the Mrs regaridng " spicing " up our intimacy and depending on her mood her answer can be a f**k NOOOOO to a hmmmmmmm who would we have join us  ??? 

As exciting as this thought would be ....... we've only used this thought as a way to fuel our passion for the evening !! Tonight being one of those ummmmmm nights


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

H3ll I won't even let someone else drive my car, no way I'm going to share my wife


It reduces the value of the marriage and relationship, it takes love out of it and make you just another piece of meat.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

My wife and I tried swinging once. Yes it was fairly typical with me being the one who talked her into it. I didn't force her into it, we talked and discussed until she was comfortable with trying it. We met the couple and had sex. Some of it was pleasurable, some of it wasn't. My wife enjoyed the 4-some, where the other couple and I were all pleasuring her at once. She didn't care for the other man that much, nor I the other woman. We were both disillusioned with swinging after that. We both felt dirty and ashamed of what we had done. It took my wife several years to get over it. 

Fast forward to today, my wife has finally come to a place where she enjoyed fantasizing about threesomes(MFM). We both enjoy the fantasy. We've gone back and forth about making it a reality. Sometime she does, sometimes I do, most of the time neither one of us want to make it a reality. My wife had told me that she has to have feelings for her partner in order to enjoy sex. For me sex is just sex, it's not how I show love. I show love by giving her my paycheck, by doing things she asks me to do. Given this, I agree with her that a MFM threesome is not for us.

As for a FMF threesome, my wife is far too jealous for that. She could never stand to see me having sex with another woman.

I won't go into the why's of this fantasy for us as it seems to trigger so many on TAM. I've already covered it in other areas anyway. I will say that we have found a safe way to live out the fantasy that only involves my wife and I. So we can enjoy the fantasy without the risks.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> *For me sex is just sex, it's not how I show love. I show love by giving her my paycheck, by doing things she asks me to do. * Given this, I agree with her that a MFM threesome is not for us.
> 
> As for a FMF threesome, my wife is far too jealous for that. She could never stand to see me having sex with another woman.
> .


Sandc,
I would like to ask you a question.
Do you think that if you and your wife were not as yet married and just living together, [ just like Pbear and his girlfriend in the earlier part of this thread] would her attitude have been different?
In other words, take the kids out of the equation and the marriage vows, would she have been more open to it?

I ask this because when I was single I had a threesome with two females and there was no bad feelings involved. However , although it was exciting, it was not something I craved because in bed , I am very dominant and with that other person I just became distracted and dominated.

So that for me since exclusivity and marriage, it is not an item we wish to even entertain. But before meeting my wife I actually did it and thought it was fun.

Maybe because my views on sex was different then?

Maybe because the marriage vows speaks to exclusivity in the bed?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I never heard that quote before but I really like it. I agree with it wholeheartedly.


I'm sure I have heard that one before, I just can't think where.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sandc,
> I would like to ask you a question.
> Do you think that if you and your wife were not as yet married and just living together, [ just like Pbear and his girlfriend in the earlier part of this thread] would her attitude have been different?
> In other words, take the kids out of the equation and the marriage vows, would she have been more open to it?
> ...


To answer your question about my wife is impossible. Her morals are part of her very being. She would never agree to live with me outside of marriage. Her morals also preclude her from actually having a threesome. She has weak moments where she will consider it however. For her it is about being dominated. She is submissive and loves being that way.


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## Clowns (Oct 29, 2012)

My first wife and I experimented with threesomes for about a year when we first married. We started dating in six grade, and married right out of high school, where I went into the Navy.

We lived in a small one bedroom apartment and no one knew who we were. This after coming from a small midwest town where everyone knew your business. The first time was almost by accident. It continued with various people (threesomes only) for about a year until we moved back home and resumed our normal lives and started our family.

It was fun at the time, and neither of us seem to have any regrets.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Not interested... I know my wife is definitely not interested. Would do nothing but destroy my marriage. But, then again I did all that crap and more when I was younger and none of it compares with the love I get from my wife. When I say I did it all... I mean I did it all... Did not give me what I have now.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

When i was younger and single, i had a chance to do a 3 some with a friend of mine and her boyfriend (his suggestion). I didn't like the guy and I know she was just going along with what ever he wanted, she did not want to do it. So i didn't do it. Even if I would have liked him, I still wouldn't of done it.

3 is a crowd


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

I think you have to distinguish between different types of threesomes. I'm not interested in FMF, but my fantasy is MFM.

People who don't have this fantasy say it is because we don't 'care' enough about our partners or we don't 'really love' them. That is not true in my case at least. I want to see my wife in the throws of passion because I love her so much. There is a masochistic element to it that would mean nothing if I didn't care about her. If I wanted to watch someone I didn't care about having sex I could go to a live sex show or a dogging spot.

I told my wife about my fantasy and she was flattered and felt that it was an expression of love for her. She is pleased that my fantasies revolve around her. 

I feel it is safer and more honest to be open about finding others attractive. Our fantasy life in in sync and we have never felt closer. She doesn't have to hide the fact that she finds other men attractive, which seems a lot healthier and more honest.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

ladybird said:


> When i was younger and single, i had a chance to do a 3 some with a friend of mine and her boyfriend (his suggestion). I didn't like the guy and I know she was just going along with what ever he wanted, she did not want to do it. So i didn't do it. Even if I would have liked him, I still wouldn't of done it.
> 
> 3 is a crowd


What if it was two men pleasuring you?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> I think you have to distinguish between different types of threesomes. I'm not interested in FMF, but my fantasy is MFM.
> 
> People who don't have this fantasy say it is because we don't 'care' enough about our partners or we don't 'really love' them. That is not true in my case at least. I want to see my wife in the throws of passion because I love her so much. There is a masochistic element to it that would mean nothing if I didn't care about her. If I wanted to watch someone I didn't care about having sex I could go to a live sex show or a dogging spot.
> 
> ...


^^^ THIS. It is exactly this way between my wife and I. ^^^


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

My exwife cheated on me and I caught her. Her solution to the cheating was to stay married and have an open marriage. My answer to that was "give me 10 days to think about it." 
She asked "why 10 days?" 
My reply was " that's how much time the lawer needs to do the paperwork and have it delivered to you. Once we are divorced you can have as open a marriage as you want, just not with me."

You see I believe when you promise someone to "forsake all others and have only unto you", there is no room for third parties. 

I also believe if you do need third party sexual gratification in a marriage, then you really don't love your spouce enough to be true to her. IMO threesomes, moresomes and swinging are just negotiated infidelity.

Just think about it for a second; If she performed oral on some other dude, are you actually going to want to kiss her? If some other guy actually did his deed in her womanhood, are you really going to want your mouth or member down there? The though is shuttering to me.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

You're talking Reality, I'm only talking fantasy. It only lives in our heads so I never worry about what's been in her mouth or her pnssy. It's all me.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> I also believe if you do need third party sexual gratification in a marriage, then you really don't love your spouce enough to be true to her.


Well, you can 'believe' what other people feel about each other as much as you want, but you will likely be wrong.

If your sex life is going to be satisfying for 5 decades or more you are going to have to be open-minded and fantasise a little. Not doing anything to keep the spark alive is the most dangerous path you can take.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Sounds like those of us who haven't experienced orgies in our youths are at a real disadvantage because we can't rationally see them as nothing special.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Sounds like those of us who haven't experienced orgies in our youths are at a real disadvantage because we can't rationally see them as nothing special.


Well said... They are not what you think they are.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

And in case anyone is unclear where I stand on this: I do not recommend this as a REALITY to anyone. As a fantasy between husband and wife it is fine.

IMHO.


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## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> The MMF is potentially good for both... the girl gets the BIGTIME ego trip of being desired by two guys, *and the guy who is actually with her gets to see his favorite porn star pleasured and in extacy from different angles than he would normally.*


And this is exactly why i've been interested in something like this ................ to watch my gorgeous wife be this " porn star " in the bliss of pleasure would be something else  !!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

When I was young I pushed the neighbor kid of my bike just cuz he was riding it. I have a feeling I would do the same thing if I saw someone riding my wife.......call me stupid, but I just don't like sharing.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I have been reading a few threads recently about threesomes and foursomes and the negative effect they have had on some marriages and long term relationships.
> 
> I have also seen that there are posters who say that it has actually enriched their marriages.
> 
> ...



swinging is definitely not for everyone , or even most people . it can both destroy , and enrich a couples relationship . i will attempt to give you my take on your questions.

what drives people is unique to each person and couple . for me it was my views on sex and my love of it . i have always been interested in sex with multiple people . it has always been my first choice when viewing porn . i never understood how anyone especially men since i am a man , could say they no longer wanted to have sex with anyone else once they were in a relationship . this makes no sense to me . i get choosing not to have sex with anyone else when you are in a relationship . that is not the same as not wanting to have sex with someone else . 

i do not agree with you that a deep psychological connection happens during sex . people have one night stands , booty calls , friends with benefits , and even sex with people they regret all the time . how could you have a deep connection from a one night stand with a stranger ? i believe the deep psychological connection comes from the person you are having sex with . when you love someone sex with that person has meaning , and feeling , and emotional investment . sex can not have these things when you do not know the person you are having sex with .


i get sexual pleasure from satisfying my wife sexually . not from seeing her have sex with someone else , but from knowing that i am fulfilling her fantasies , and desires . i get sexual pleasure from having sex with my wife and other women , and from fulfilling my desire of being in a sexual situation with multiple people . i get sexual excitement from seeing my wife being completely sexual . think of it like if your wife wanted you to use toys on her , or dress in a cop uniform , or role play with her . what sexual pleasure would you get from it ? 


is the pleasure worth the risk ? that depends on what the risk is . assuming that you and your partner are honest with each other and with yourselves , the only risk is that you dont like it and do not do it again ? you know if you can handle seeing your partner have sex with someone else . if for some reason you are not sure the answer is no you can not . if you cant then do not do it . doing it should absolutely in no way change the way you feel about your partner . if it does then obviously your feelings are not based on who your partner is , they are based on what your partner does . swinging can only work if you are honest with each other

honesty and communication is the key . it is also how swinging improves your relationship . most people do not trust their partner enough to tell them that they want to do a 3some , or that the best sex they ever had was with someone else . many people do not feel secure enough to tell their partner what they really want sexually . when you can be completely honest with your partner about who you are with no fear of judgement or jealousy your relationship will improve no matter how good it was .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

waiwera said:


> I wouldn't stay married to man who wanted to share me (there is no bigger insult in my eyes) and it would kill me to see him with another woman.
> 
> Sex and the intimacy that goes with it is what makes my relationship with my h different and special from all other relationships in my life.
> 
> ...



i agree that intimacy is what makes a relationship special . but i do not think that intimacy comes from the sex . i believe that intimacy comes from givng yourself to your partner . not physically , but emotionally , and mentally . to have the trust in your partner to feel secure enough to tell your partner your deepest , darkest , most embarrasing , desires , and secrets , to me that is what i give my partner . the real me , that is what i give my partner . 


3somes , and swinging is no different than any other kind of sexual desire . it is something that most people would like to try , and even you yourself enjoyed . if your husband told you that what he has always wanted to do but was afraid to tell you was he wanted for you and him to have a MFM threesome what would your response to him be ? how would it make you feel ? would you feel good knowing that your husband has finally trusted you enough to know he could tell you this ? or would you feel that your husband somehow doesnt respect or love you any more ? would you not do something you liked and your husband really wanted to do , because you are married to him and you cant do that with someone you love ? 

swinging is definitely not for everyone . its not even for most people . it is only for people who want to do it .


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

I think people are confusing sexuality with the emotional connection. It's more of a socio-emotional arguement than a biological one.
As part of the animal kingdom we are biologically wired to crave sexual connections with members of the opposite species (and before gayness became the fashinable fad). 
Furthermore, men can handle the line between physical /sexual connections much better than women. This is a fact as it's easier for a man to "walk away" than it is a woman. Men don't have the possibility of getting pregnant among many other reasons. Women on the contrary need a man for a variety of reasons. Even the man bashing/hating ultra feminist leader in the 1960's and 70's Gloria Steinem who advocated against marriage and men, where is she now? Married to a man playing house after her youger free wheeling days were long gone and now she's long in the tooth.
Threesomes work for some people and does not work for some people. It all comes down to how much you're capable of handling with your partner.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I read more stories here on TAM about men trying to keep their women than vice versa. It also seems to me from observation that a woman can go out and get a new man much faster than a man can go out and get a new woman. Again, just my observations.

I agree about the threesomes. Don't do it if you can't handle it. I can't, so I don't. But I do like to think about it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

aston said:


> *Furthermore, men can handle the line between physical /sexual connections much better than women. *This is a fact as it's easier for a man to "walk away" than it is a woman.


Really/ :scratchhead:
Maybe you should have a look at the " Coping With Infidelity " section of TAM.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Really/ :scratchhead:
> Maybe you should have a look at the " Coping With Infidelity " section of TAM.


Thats why you need to really weigh your options and consider your ability to stay committed and not end up on TAM before getting married.:iagree:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> While I mostly agree with you, I think women can actually handle threesomes easier without getting attached or possessive, but it always depends on the personalities. The reason is simply that anyone who has done it knows that in a group sex situation, the women make the rules, dictate what's going to happen, and control nearly EVERYTHING in the threesome. If the woman gets uncomfortable or offended at a guy being pushy or not switching condoms when he should, it's over. Any guy who has done these situations knows that the talk over wine (before the clothes start hitting the floor) is all about what the girl(s) are comfortable with, what's off limits, and what their fantasies are.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 95%, the other 5% is the idea that the women always control it.
Having the control and being made to believe you "have control" are two different things. At the end of the day it's two guys (or more) or a guy and a girl plowing you (the woman) senseless. and believe me the guys is more than likely having more fun. :smthumbup:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> Oh, I had a lotta fun... don't get me wrong. The FFM ones were serious work (even the 'soft core' ones), though. I had to stop and switch positions often, and I had to be sorta conscious about not getting too into it (or at least not looking too excited about it) with the girl who wasn't my gf at the time... assuming I wanted it to happen again.
> 
> The MMF ones were something I was real nervous about at first since I have zero interest in guys, but it was cool too. I think the woman was in extacy both times, though. Assuming it's a woman who's sexually open and fit enough to have the stamina, they do get a lot of validation from being desired and drooled over by two guys (although I'm sure the woman feels bad the day after many times just based on societal norms). Who knows... just like 2 person sex, your mileage may vary.


HA! you clearly sound like you had alot of fun. I did too in my experiences and you are dead on correct about the day - after remorse lol.
They do the nasty and really go all out and wild. The next morning you get the "lets talk about yesterday" speech and you wonder WTF! You were so into it and now you have group sex remorse? lol. Of course a few weeks later you get that text message on a thursday afternoon at the office that reads ...."I'm thinking of doing something fun this weekend" LOL


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I understand where so many have this fantasy and really I am not interested in judging anyone who does... simply in my experience that this just does not match the fantasy. 

Yes, when I was single and that was all throughout my teens and twenties, I got my freak on. More than just threesomes... we are talking group sex (and opposite and same gender freaking - although I am 100% heterosexual). I guess one could say I got it out of my system. Sure, if that is what one wants to think, but I just don't sit around pondering my past and thinking hmmmm what would it be like to revisit this with my wife... NO WAY. It simply may just be me, but I certainly don't want any part of that lifestyle. And, thankfully I know my wife does not either. 

So, for those that want to fantasize, I don't judge, but just don't assume reality is what you think it is.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

drerio said:


> I understand where so many have this fantasy and really I am not interested in judging anyone who does... simply in my experience that this just does not match the fantasy.
> 
> Yes, when I was single and that was all throughout my teens and twenties, I got my freak on. More than just threesomes... we are talking group sex (and opposite and same gender freaking - although I am 100% heterosexual). I guess one could say I got it out of my system. Sure, if that is what one wants to think, but I just don't sit around pondering my past and thinking hmmmm what would it be like to revisit this with my wife... NO WAY. It simply may just be me, but I certainly don't want any part of that lifestyle. And, thankfully I know my wife does not either.
> 
> So, for those that want to fantasize, I don't judge, but just don't assume reality is what you think it is.




i am curious as to why you stopped " getting your freak on " and why you no longer want to do those things ? did you discover that you really didnt like doing it ? did you not have good experiences ?


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

aston said:


> HA! you clearly sound like you had alot of fun. I did too in my experiences and you are dead on correct about the day - after remorse lol.
> They do the nasty and really go all out and wild. The next morning you get the "lets talk about yesterday" speech and you wonder WTF! You were so into it and now you have group sex remorse? lol. Of course a few weeks later you get that text message on a thursday afternoon at the office that reads ...."I'm thinking of doing something fun this weekend" LOL




most women i have talked to have told me that they would do a 3some with 2 guys but they have too much to worry about . the guys getting out of hand , being disrespectful , treating her badly , doing things she did not want them to do , not stopping when she says stop , etc ...... 

with the husband or bf they would not have those worries but they would be worried about him being jealous , or mad , or thinking badly about her afterwards , or losing respect for her ..... 

the women i have asked who do not have those worries have all said pretty much the same thing . they loved it . of course things are not always as good as we fantasize but they sometimes come very close . 

1 woman , and 2 men always seemed very natural to me and in my experience has much better flow and feels more natural . the men do not have to do anything sexual with each other . all 3 can be involved sexually at all times . women are just getting heated up when the first guy cums , and she has guy 2 to continue with , when he cums guy 1 is usually ready . etc ....

women are able to completely satisfy both men without any problem . whereas it is completely different with 1 guy and 2 women .

the only way the guy can have sex with both women at the same time is one rides him , and one gets a mustache ride . for all 3 to be involved any other way the girls have to be sexual with each other . when the guy cums there is often a period of softness . if the women are not into each other all 3 have to wait for the man to get hard which kills the mood very quickly . 

most men can not last more than 2 - 3 hours and that is with plenty of rest time . and with the stopping , and starting , all 3 not always being involved , the bad flow . it is not a good experience with the women being sexual with each other . 

2 men and 1 woman is in my opinion the best , most natural , most sexually fulfilling way to have sex .


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> i am curious as to why you stopped " getting your freak on " and why you no longer want to do those things ? did you discover that you really didnt like doing it ? did you not have good experiences ?


Childhood stuff... I have mentioned this in other threads. Probably part of my upbringing. By the time my parents had children they were emotionally spent and had little to give me or my siblings. They gave us our basic physical needs but we had to discover emotional comfort and love through other sources. That left someone like me to seek after ghost. So yea, I used sex as a means to look for love and approval. It did not work... I started with the wrong crowd but eventually befriended people who came from you typical family home (I was jealous) and learned... So getting my freak on never gave me what I have now. Simply my experience.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

drerio said:


> Childhood stuff... I have mentioned this in other threads. Probably part of my upbringing. By the time my parents had children they were emotionally spent and had little to give me or my siblings. They gave us our basic physical needs but we had to discover emotional comfort and love through other sources. That left someone like me to seek after ghost. So yea, I used sex as a means to look for love and approval. It did not work... I started with the wrong crowd but eventually befriended people who came from you typical family home (I was jealous) and learned... So getting my freak on never gave me what I have now. Simply my experience.



so you stopped because you were looking for love not sex ? since you have found love why do you still not want to have sex that you clearly enjoy ? do you think they are mutually exclusive ? i am just curious as to why people do not do what they want , and what they enjoy , usually only when it comes to sex .


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> so you stopped because you were looking for love not sex ? since you have found love why do you still not want to have sex that you clearly enjoy ? do you think they are mutually exclusive ? i am just curious as to why people do not do what they want , and what they enjoy , usually only when it comes to sex .


I found love, but I also discovered that sex (which I do enjoy very much) cannot be separated from love. Strictly my opinion. My previous life, I realize is was just sex and never did I feel love was part of the equation. Again, I just see this a way different than others. Always an emptiness when all it is, is pure sex devoid of love. I hope that this answers you question.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

I feel threesomes are very disrespectful and I agree with all you've said. I need a deep emotional connection for sex. And I can only have one with one person. It's just how I'm wired. I can't BE in love with more than one person. 

I guess in my eyes it can't truly enrich somebodies marriage unless they're in the marriage for financial security and sex, and not really love. If its a loveless marriage or a comfort based marriage, this is how I can see it being enriched - but for people who deeply love their SOs (Love is very jealous and possessive) I can't see 3somes ever working out for them in a good way. 

I mean I could be wrong, or maybe I'm just narrowminded, but I would just close off if my S/O started in on another woman. Because sex means something to me. To some people it means nothing though so.. 

All in the eyes I suppose!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I was browsing a health forum today and someone asked a question about (what do you know) threesomes! Seems like it's on a lot of minds lately. Here was a interesting post that I thought I would share here.



> While one can conjecture endlessly over the possible detriments of engaging in threeway encounters, those concerns are only realized or dispelled after you've "rolled the dice," so to speak. And, of course, it really is a gamble. You can't know with any certainty how you or your partner will feel. But it's my opinion that, regardless of the outcome, the gamble pays off precisely because you now have the opportunity to learn something new about yourself. Why are you feeling jealous? Is it a "penis thing"? Are you frightened of being humiliated? Are you scared that you are opening a pandora's box of unpredictable sexual behavior? In the end, I think you two are quite right. These sorts of questions aren't answered until afterwards. You won't know until you know. But what I'm getting at *here* is that the emotional associations you've established with threeway sex -- be it disgust, anxiety, or interest and excitation -- can be remarkable learning tools. We North Americans often fail to make use of these tools because we aren't very reflective people. If you're disgusted, inquire into your disgust. If you're interested in threesomes, then why are you interested? How will engaging in threeway sex serve your relationship? How will it bring you and your partner closer together?
> 
> In these kinds of chat forums, the vaguely implied (but seemingly unanswerable) question is "should you have a threesome or not?" But I don't think that's an interesting question, and I don't think there's a useful answer either. *My point* is that threesomes are ideal activities for drawing on our emotional resources as learning tools, because they tend to raise so many intense feelings in people. So, in the spirit of learning, perhaps I can end with a few questions rather than a definitive answer....
> 
> ...


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

sandc said:


> What if it was two men pleasuring you?


  It would really depend. I mean a one night stand then maybe, Someone who I am not serious about, but not when someone who is in a relationship. No matter how strong you think your relationship is with someone, this type of thing can ruin it, beyond repair.

Having a 3 some while in a long term relationship is means for disaster.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't think this is a discussion for me... chapters of my youth are often too painful to dredge up... this type of sex is associated with those chapters and frankly I prefer not to relive. For others it may be a wonderful adventure... I certainly won't judge, but it is not for me.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*Sorry I can't get into that threesomes deal. JMO you can't be in love and willing to share your lover. *


*I am not going to watch my lover do another woman.*


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> The reason is simply that anyone who has done it knows that* in a group sex situation, the women make the rules, dictate what's going to happen, and control nearly EVERYTHING in the threesome. *If the woman gets uncomfortable or offended at a guy being pushy or not switching condoms when he should, it's over. Any guy who has done these situations knows that the talk over wine (before the clothes start hitting the floor) is all about what the girl(s) are comfortable with, what's off limits, and what their fantasies are.


^^^^^^^^
This was my experience the one and only time I did it.
That's why I posted earlier that I felt " dominated " during the experience.
It was good, but not something I craved. I t was not my suggestion either, a friend of mine brought up the idea and I accepted.
I am naturally dominant in bed.
I can't see myself doing it now with my wife either.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

ladybird said:


> *Having a 3 some while in a long term relationship is means for disaster*.



:iagree:


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

kipani said:


> I feel threesomes are very disrespectful and I agree with all you've said. I need a deep emotional connection for sex. And I can only have one with one person. It's just how I'm wired. I can't BE in love with more than one person.
> 
> I guess in my eyes it can't truly enrich somebodies marriage unless they're in the marriage for financial security and sex, and not really love. If its a loveless marriage or a comfort based marriage, this is how I can see it being enriched - but for people who deeply love their SOs (Love is very jealous and possessive) I can't see 3somes ever working out for them in a good way.
> 
> ...



if your partner wants to do a 3some , and you want to do a 3some , and yo both want to have this experience with , and for each other how could that possibly be disrespectful ? mutually fulfilling your partners sexual desires , and sharing them with each other is about as opposite of disrespectful as you could possibly get . 

when you have a 3some you do not share your love , your relationship , or your life with the other person , you only share sex . it is about you and your partner . not the other person . 

the way it enriches a marriage is by promoting communication , and honesty , and trust . the sex acts are for your partners pleasure , not the other persons . 

i could not disagree more with love being jealous and possessive . if you love your partner they are not your possession , they are your partner . if you truly love your partner you view them as your equal , not a subordinate under your control .


i do not understand jealousy . i trust my wife . i believe she is with me because she wants to be with me . i believe that my wife is , and always will be faithful . not because she has to be , but because she wants to be . no one can steal her from me . she does not belong to me and can not be stolen . if i ever felt any reason to doubt her fidelity , that would mean i no longer trust her . if i felt i could no longer trust her i could not be with her any longer . 

jealousy is an irrational , insecure , emotion that you can not have if you have complete trust in your partner . if you trust your partner you believe them when they tell you they love you and couldnt imagine being with anyone else . if you truly believe that what could you possibly have to be jealous of ? i do not understand jealousy . 

3somes are not for everyone , or even for most people . that does not make you narrow minded at all . it only makes you someone who would not do a 3some . sex does not mean something to me . my partner means something to me . my wife gives meaning to the sex . the sex does not give meaning to my wife . you could have great sex with a complete stranger . you can not have great love with a perfect stranger .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> :iagree:



why ?


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

drerio said:


> I found love, but I also discovered that sex (which I do enjoy very much) cannot be separated from love. Strictly my opinion. My previous life, I realize is was just sex and never did I feel love was part of the equation. Again, I just see this a way different than others. Always an emptiness when all it is, is pure sex devoid of love. I hope that this answers you question.



i hope you in no way feel i am judging you . like i said previously i am fascinated by the amount of trouble we have when it comes to sex . women especially . 

when you had just sex with no love you felt empty . completely understandable . sex is an activity . it can give pleasure , excitement , and fun , but it can not give you fulfillment . 

you also said that sex can not be separated from love , and then immediately said in your previous life love was not part of the sex you were having . ????????? 

sounds to me like you found out that love and sex are 2 completely different things . and sex with someone you love is on a completely different level than sex with someone you do not love . we all want sex . we all want love . love is much more important than sex because love makes makes sex mor than just a physical activity . it makes it an activity of your mind , body , and soul .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *Sorry I can't get into that threesomes deal. JMO you can't be in love and willing to share your lover. *
> 
> 
> *I am not going to watch my lover do another woman.*



i could never imagine sharing my wife with anyone . when we have a 3some it is about us , and for us . we do it for each others pleasure . the other person is not ever a part of that . 

what if your husband wanted to see you having sex with another man ? what if your husband wanted so see you being completely turned on from watching him watch you ? what if your husband wanted to see you as the completely sexual woman nympho you are in his fantasies ?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

The odds of a threesome going badly are significant. I'm not talking about what may happen in the act itself, I'm referring to the after affects. Emotional attachments to others who are not your spouse happen. The risk is simply too great for any married couple trying to tackle their sexual bucket list. Why people think having threesomes is a good idea escapes me. 

If you try to set up a threesome to fulfill one of your fantasies, then don't cry if the outcome is unexpected and unwanted. On your head so be it.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> It all depends on the people involved. You are over-generalizing about something you have no experience in.
> 
> If either partner is uneasy about it and "doing it for the relationship," don't do it. If either one is insecure, it's not a good idea. If you are both adults, both like sex, both have experience sexually and are secure with their bodies, it can be a lot of fun. You just have to have boundaries and a logical plan. Not for everyone.


 I am only going by from what I have read about 3 - somes on here. Almost every time it was a big mistake. IMO it is not worth the risk, because you will never know the out come of what comes after, it happens.

I don't think this is for every one. Granted there are some married couples who do this kind of thing all the time, and their marriage has never been stronger.

To each their own

I mean if you want to share you spouce with someone else and can deal with it then good for you. If i wanted to share my partner i never would have gotten married in the first place. Sure it may be fun to do, but the emotional after effects would be not so fun.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

OK, don't want to get too into it, but 3-somes, swinging, etc is a horrible, horrible idea for a married couple to become involved in. For several reasons. 1. instead of just two people, with two sets of emotions, you have 3 or more, and the more people you get, the more opportunities for somebody getting hurt, angry, jealous, etc. 2. The hugely increased risk of STD's Because you can NEVER be absolutely sure that all persons involved are safe or regularily practice safe sex. 3. Especially during the first years of marriage, the bonding necessary for a good marriage is spent partially on other people. I know that some swingers will say that they have this stuff all covered, but that's usually a lie. I have known some swingers and their personal lives are up a dead cat's a**. My best friend in the Marines was involved for a short time and his swinger playmates were always trying to get me to join in the "fun" as the BBC. I even went to a "meet and greet", party. Once I saw them in action, I backed out of there in a hurry.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The odds of a threesome going badly are significant.


What are the odds? Do you have any statistics?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

People talk a whole lot of bunk about this. People who acknowledge that they have never and would never try anything like this. They will make authoratative statements about what kind of relationship you have if you have even considered this and they will tell you that the chances of your relationship surviving are minimal.

None of these bold statements is made from experience or knowledge of any kind. You might as well take mortgage advice from a seven year old.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=11412386


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> People talk a whole lot of bunk about this. People who acknowledge that they have never and would never try anything like this. They will make authoratative statements about what kind of relationship you have if you have even considered this and they will tell you that the chances of your relationship surviving are minimal.
> 
> None of these bold statements is made from experience or knowledge of any kind. You might as well take mortgage advice from a seven year old.
> 
> http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=11412386


A person doesn't have to eat sh*t, to know it tastes bad.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> A person doesn't have to eat sh*t, to know it tastes bad.


Taste is a personal thing.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

johnnycomelately said:


> What are the odds? Do you have any statistics?


Statistics and facts have no place in a good Internet discussion. Sheesh, don't you know forum etiquette?



C


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

PBear said:


> Statistics and facts have no place in a good Internet discussion. Sheesh, don't you know forum etiquette?
> 
> 
> 
> C


I had a boss once who used to say "I have made up my mind, stop trying to confuse me with facts!"


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Taste is a personal thing.


Johnny,
I've seen cocaine and know exactly what it looks and feels like.
I know people who used cocaine for years and still look good.
But I also know people who used cocaine for less than a year and ended up on sleeping on the streets , begging for money,selling their body, to buy " straw" or " 8 - ball " to satisfy their addiction.

A person does not have to use cocaine to know the odds of getting hooked and totally wasted are extremely high.

_Very few people who use cocaine are psychologically able to handle it._

The same can be said of threesomes in a marriage relationship.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> A person does not have to use cocaine to know the odds of getting hooked and totally wasted are extremely high.
> 
> _Very few people who use cocaine are psychologically able to handle it._
> 
> The same can be said of threesomes in a marriage relationship.


_Wikipedia - cocaine

Risk

According to a study of 1081 US residents aged over 11 years who had used cocaine for the first time within 24 months prior to assessment, the risk of becoming cocaine-dependent within 2 years of first use (recent-onset) is 5-6%; after 10 years, it increases to 15-16%. These are the aggregate rates for all types of use considered, i.e., smoking, snorting, injecting. Among recent-onset users, the relative rates are higher for smoking (3.4 times) and much higher for injecting. They also vary, based on other characteristics, such as sex: among recent-onset users, women are 3.3 times more likely to become addicted, compared with men; age: among recent-onset users, those who started using at ages 12 or 13 were 4 times as likely to become addicted, compared with those who started between ages 18 and 20.[3]

However, a study of non-deviant[nb 1] users in Amsterdam found "r*elative absence of destructive and compulsive use patterns over a ten year period" and concluded that cocaine users can and do exercise control. "Our respondents applied two basic types of controls to themselves:* 1) restricting use to certain situations and to emotional states in which cocaine's effects would be most positive, and 2) limiting mode of ingestion to snorting of modest amounts of cocaine, staying below 2.5 grams a week for some, and below 0.5 grams a week for most. Nevertheless, those whose use level exceeded 2.5 grams a week all returned to lower levels."[4]
_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I've had an open relationship in the past, it was fun actually. Sharing my gf at the time was the fine line between pleasure and pain for me. I actually enjoyed it more than MFF threesomes which were also alot of fun. There were even the downtimes in between swinger sessions where the anticipation really got me in the hots for my gf constantly.

However, it came with a price, something I never truly understood until I got with my wife. I lost respect for my gf subconsciously, not only that but I no longer believed her when she claimed she wanted to be with just one guy and that she only did it for me (her enjoyment said otherwise heh). Our relationship just wasn't strong enough to withstand the after effects.

Soon, we drifted apart and spiraled downhill. Then I met my wife, who became my best friend, and a year later, dumped my ex... then after a few months, seduced (and got seduced) by my now wife (best friend at the time)

Despite the damage it has done to my past relationship, I still have persistent fantasies of this, and I enjoyed it to the point I even suggested it (repeatedly) to my wife in the past. She always told me to F off and that she's not someone I can pass around to my mates. I was very persistent and insistent however, but she never gave in. As time passed, my wife earned my utmost respect and trust when it comes to this.

So I'm one who believes it's not a good idea most of the time. But when I read up about what happened to me and my ex I realised we made ALOT of mistakes -> on even swinger sites they insist that a relationship has to be really strong to handle the numerous possible emotions that will arise from swinging. Alot of boundaries had to be established, honesty is a must, etc etc.

My ex and I failed in that, so in the end our relationship was doomed. However, I am convinced that if we had a stronger relationship we could have survived it, and have also heard stories of successful open marriages and relationships, so I can't rule out A or B.

In the end -> The answer to your question is:

It all depends on the couple


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw... We went to the sex club the other night as planned. Had a great time there. The only real physical interaction was between my GF and another woman that we both found very hot. They kept it to kissing, breast play, and touching under the clothes while we hung out by the dance floor. 

Unfortunately... My GF ended up connecting the dots on the woman and her BF who was there, and confirmed it through Facebook... He went to school with her sister, lived beside her BFF, who babysat him when they were all younger (he was 4 years younger than my GF and her BFF). All in all, too close of a connection. That put an end to any further connection with them, and an end to the idea of going to the hotel party. Spooked my GF too much.

We did end up going to dinner with another couple we met online, and it was an interesting discussion. They had an open marriage for their entire time together (10 years), so they had some stories and guidance. In the end though, it was decided that there wasn't a physical connection enough to continue seeing each other. To be honest, my GF and I talked about the next day and figured that even if we weren't totally gaga over them as potential partners, it might be fun to try. But they sent a follow up email to say they didn't feel the connection. Gotta admit, that kinda stung a bit. But as my GF says, you can't be everyone's cup of tea. And when you've got 4 people involved, getting everyone interested is probably that much more challenging.

C


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> People talk a whole lot of bunk about this. People who acknowledge that they have never and would never try anything like this. They will make authoratative statements about what kind of relationship you have if you have even considered this and they will tell you that the chances of your relationship surviving are minimal.
> 
> None of these bold statements is made from experience or knowledge of any kind. You might as well take mortgage advice from a seven year old.
> 
> http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=11412386


You also called me out on my comment about statistics. You are right that I don't have actual statistics where I can cite an actual study. However, I do know that the risks of damaging a relationship are significant through testimonials here, from people I know in real life and in other media. What do you consider as significant risk? I would consider it an unacceptable risk if the odds of a threesome causing a failed marriage is between 10% and 20% - for the sake of argument let's say 17% - 20% of the time a threesome or swinging can ruin a marriage. The flip side in my assumption is that anywhere from 80% - 83% of couples trying out an open marriage/threesome would find this life great. 

The bottom line is that those odds are too great of a risk to a marriage. Taking a SWAG, I applied the 80/20 rule to this scenario since your posts talk about how these great "successes" are never publicized much while the failures are paraded around in the public square. Even if the failure rate is only 15%, that is too great of a risk to take. The bottom line is if you desire to sleep around with other people instead of making a commitment to one person only, then there is no point to getting married. By definition, marriage is for 2 people only. This is what the institution has been for the past 2000 years in the Judeo-Christian parts of the world - of which I belong to.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Johnny, Someday you will realize that one man's "Tuna", is another man's cat food. You can find so-called facts and studies and whatnot to support anything you want. Why are YOUR ideas factual and mine not? You should probably be somewhat more open-minded to other opinions. During my single days I've had some interaction with swingers and have found that almost all have issues relating to their lifestyle choices, and very , very few remain so for any length of time. But like I said before I don't want to spend too much time on this, so believe what you will. But if I were advising, I would advise against it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You also called me out on my comment about statistics. You are right that I don't have actual statistics where I can cite an actual study. However, I do know that the risks of damaging a relationship are significant through testimonials here, from people I know in real life and in other media. What do you consider as significant risk? I would consider it an unacceptable risk if the odds of a threesome causing a failed marriage is between 10% and 20% - for the sake of argument let's say 17% - 20% of the time a threesome or swinging can ruin a marriage. The flip side in my assumption is that anywhere from 80% - 83% of couples trying out an open marriage/threesome would find this life great.
> 
> The bottom line is that those odds are too great of a risk to a marriage. Taking a SWAG, I applied the 80/20 rule to this scenario since your posts talk about how these great "successes" are never publicized much while the failures are paraded around in the public square. Even if the failure rate is only 15%, that is too great of a risk to take. The bottom line is if you desire to sleep around with other people instead of making a commitment to one person only, then there is no point to getting married. By definition, marriage is for 2 people only. This is what the institution has been for the past 2000 years in the Judeo-Christian parts of the world - of which I belong to.


I would agree that including multiple people in the bedroom most likely increases the odds of marital problems. But...

How many marriages fail for reasons other than including other people in the bedroom? I think the current divorce rate is what, around 50%? And based on what we see, even in a site like this that deals with broken marriages, the majority of marital issues are caused not by an open or swinging relationship, but by one spouse cheating on another without being open about it. 

My point would be that swinging/threesomes/open marriages aren't for everyone, and that all marriages are at risk. 

C


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

PBear said:


> I would agree that including multiple people in the bedroom most likely increases the odds of marital problems. But...
> 
> How many marriages fail for reasons other than including other people in the bedroom? I think the current divorce rate is what, around 50%? And based on what we see, even in a site like this that deals with broken marriages, the majority of marital issues are caused not by an open or swinging relationship, but by one spouse cheating on another without being open about it.
> 
> ...


True, there are a number of reasons for marriages breaking up. In fact, threesomes and/or open marriages are probably not high on that list. But that is probably because most couples probably don't go down that route in the first place. Yes, I'm sure the lifestyle can work for a number of people. But the bottom line is that it is an additional risk. The real trap in pursuing an open marriage or engaging in threesomes is that you never know if it is for you unless you try it out. Despite the best assurances of "it's only sex" or "you'll always be the most important to me" ring hollow. First, by engaging in this behavior alone is tangible proof that your spouse is not #1 in your eyes. Second, you truly have no idea how you'll react to the life style and who you'll make an emotional connection to. Just like the concept of the "soulmate" is rubbish, so is the idea that you can't fall in love with someone else who is not your spouse. I love my wife dearly, but if I was young and single - and had the time - I could probably find 5 to 10 other women with the same traits as my wife and could fall in love with them.

The bottom line is that you made a commitment - your choice was made. Now it's time to work to ensure that the marriage remains strong and you need to safeguard your marriage from those risks that would weaken the marital bonds. Just like most of us wouldn't condone your wife having an online relationship with an old flame, why would you openly bring a third person into your marriage? The risk is simply too great.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> Johnny, Someday you will realize that one man's "Tuna", is another man's cat food. You can find so-called facts and studies and whatnot to support anything you want. Why are YOUR ideas factual and mine not? You should probably be somewhat more open-minded to other opinions. During my single days I've had some interaction with swingers and have found that almost all have issues relating to their lifestyle choices, and very , very few remain so for any length of time. But like I said before I don't want to spend too much time on this, so believe what you will. But if I were advising, I would advise against it.


So I am closed minded because I said 'taste is personal'?

Makes sense.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The bottom line is that you made a commitment - your choice was made. Now it's time to work to ensure that the marriage remains strong and you need to safeguard your marriage from those risks that would weaken the marital bonds. Just like most of us wouldn't condone your wife having an online relationship with an old flame, why would you openly bring a third person into your marriage? The risk is simply too great.


For you.

You can't tell people how to run their marriages or how they feel about their partners because of the lifestyle choices that they make. 

Considering the the success rate I don't think we should be too smug about the traditional 'Judeo-Christian' marriage. In reality we have never really been truly monogamous.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> i could never imagine sharing my wife with anyone . when we have a 3some it is about us , and for us . we do it for each others pleasure . the other person is not ever a part of that .
> 
> what if your husband wanted to see you having sex with another man ? what if your husband wanted so see you being completely turned on from watching him watch you ? what if your husband wanted to see you as the completely sexual woman nympho you are in his fantasies ?
> 
> ...


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

OK lets face it once this happens it opens up a can of worms. I know a couple who got into swinging and after a few years they simply never had sex alone!
There was always a third party and there was always a sub context to it. Did not bode well for their relationship...to say the least.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

aston said:


> OK lets face it once this happens it opens up a can of worms. I know a couple who got into swinging and after a few years they simply never had sex alone!
> There was always a third party and there was always a sub context to it. Did not bode well for their relationship...to say the least.


Well, there's the smoking gun we were missing. One couple twice removed tried swinging and it didn't work well for them. So nobody should try it ever. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

aston said:


> OK lets face it once this happens it opens up a can of worms. I know a couple who got into swinging and after a few years they simply never had sex alone!
> There was always a third party and there was always a sub context to it. Did not bode well for their relationship...to say the least.


It was very kind of them to keep you updated every time they had sex.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

PBear said:


> Well, there's the smoking gun we were missing. One couple twice removed tried swinging and it didn't work well for them. So nobody should try it ever.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL you are funny! I like your way with words. People should make their own decisions. I've tried it in the past and I don't regret it simply because I was not in a committed relationship and more importantly it was a learning experience. Would I do it again? Meybe and maybe not but it's not something I'm actively pursuing.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> It was very kind of them to keep you updated every time they had sex.


Actually they did not. When I got divorced suddenly alot of friends that I assumed had intact marriages started telling me things that were going on in their relationships. Long story but I was surprised alot more people that put up a show in public were actually on the edge as well. From swinging to threesomes to infidelity to fetishes to "falling out of love" to marriages of convenience and ones who were just staying because of the children etc.
Felt like being divorced made you a shrink for friends. Thats how I found out about the couple I mentioned.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

aston said:


> OK lets face it once this happens it opens up a can of worms. I know a couple who got into swinging and after a few years they simply never had sex alone!
> There was always a third party and there was always a sub context to it. Did not bode well for their relationship...to say the least.


*
My cousin had a friend whos W wanted a threesome. He agree to do it . But he said the W was spending more time on him. He told me afterward the mans' Wife told him she enjoyed it. Then the W started calling him all the time just to talk. Later the W told him she wanted to have sex with him again. That she felt a connection to him. The W told him that it would be only him and her. She told him that he had rocked her world . She had not had it so good like that nite.
He told her that was not a good idea. A week later the H called him wanted another threesome. This time the W pushed the husband back and had fun with my cousin only. The h was just watching them. When the H wanted to join into the fun, the W was telling him to just watch this time. That next time it would be all three having fun. Afterward my cousin told me he stopped it. However the W was still calling him for more. So my cousin change his cell number. It turns out the W just wants to sleep with other men. *


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *
> My cousin had a friend whos W wanted a threesome. He agree to do it . But he said the W was spending more time on him. He told me afterward the mans' Wife told him she enjoyed it. Then the W started calling him all the time just to talk. Later the W told him she wanted to have sex with him again. That she felt a connection to him. The W told him that it would be only him and her. She told him that he had rocked her world . She had not had it so good like that nite.
> He told her that was not a good idea. A week later the H called him wanted another threesome. This time the W pushed the husband back and had fun with my cousin only. The h was just watching them. When the H wanted to join into the fun, the W was telling him to just watch this time. That next time it would be all three having fun. Afterward my cousin told me he stopped it. However the W was still calling him for more. So my cousin change his cell number. It turns out the W just wants to sleep with other men. *


You'll be surprised how often this happens.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> For you.
> 
> You can't tell people how to run their marriages or how they feel about their partners because of the lifestyle choices that they make.
> 
> Considering the the success rate I don't think we should be too smug about the traditional 'Judeo-Christian' marriage. *In reality we have never really been truly monogamous*.


There's a difference between monogamy and fidelity. That's what a lot of people don't get.

Does it open a can of worms? Yes... Namely jealousy or that one of the spouses will get too into it and want to keep doing it too much (regular group sex, become swingers, lose interest in regular husband/wife sex, etc). You have to set clear boundaries and be secure with your attractiveness to yourself and each other, and you have to pick a partner person or couple who is not crazy or clingy.

This is why, IMO, to make it work, you have to do 3+ experiences where there's no way it continues. That means at a resort, on a Euro vaca, etc. There's no way it should ever be done locally if you're in a LTR or marriage, and you shouldn't be exchanging cell number, email, etc with the other person or couple. Ideally, you wouldn't even know real names or last names.

The people who do it with people in their social circle or crazies on craiglist, etc are nuts. They're risking their community reputation and their relationship. If you keep it all impersonal, fairly anonymous, and about animalistic sex, it has much less potential for damaging the relationship. When the evening's over, it's over. It was just a fun time to talk about together, enjoy, learn from, and maybe fantasize about or look forward to again on another vacation... nothing more. It's the aftermath that always causes problems.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> So I am closed minded because I said 'taste is personal'?
> 
> Makes sense.


No, you are closed minded because you insult other posters and feel that your way is the only way.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

PBear said:


> I would agree that including multiple people in the bedroom most likely increases the odds of marital problems. But...
> 
> How many marriages fail for reasons other than including other people in the bedroom? I think the current divorce rate is what, around 50%? And based on what we see, even in a site like this that deals with broken marriages, the majority of marital issues are caused not by an open or swinging relationship, but by one spouse cheating on another without being open about it.
> 
> ...


PBear, I agree that marriages fail more often because of cheating, than because of "open sexual behavior'. But that isn't a validation of either. BOTH are harmful. What I AM saying is the the marital bed can only get so big , before it breaks. The more people in it, the higher the chance it will fail. Look, it's hard enough to have a good marriage, adding the wants, needs, desires jealousies, and emotions of more than the two is adding layer upon layer of potential or actual problems. I'm a minimalist, the fewer issues I have to face, the better .


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> No, you are closed minded because you insult other posters and feel that your way is the only way.


Show me where I have insulted someone and I will apologise.

I don't think my way is the only way and I am not closed-minded. In fact the opposite. The only time I make strong comments is when people make authoratitive statements about subjects they can know nothing about; like how someone else feels or how someone else thinks.

It is closed-mindedness about people who choose a different lifestyle that I object to.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> People talk a whole lot of bunk about this. People who acknowledge that they have never and would never try anything like this. They will make authoratative statements about what kind of relationship you have if you have even considered this and they will tell you that the chances of your relationship surviving are minimal.
> 
> None of these bold statements is made from experience or knowledge of any kind. You might as well take mortgage advice from a seven year old.
> 
> http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=11412386


This post is insulting and fundamentally un-true. You are making assumptions as much as the people you decry. You have no way of knowing THEIR experiences, either, do you? What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you want tolerance , then practice it.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> This post is insulting and fundamentally un-true. You are making assumptions as much as the people you decry. You have no way of knowing THEIR experiences, either, do you? What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you want tolerance , then practice it.


If people make false statements based in ignorance I am going to counter that. If that is intolerant so be it. 

Are saying the testimonies of these people are untrue? 

No-one was personally insulted in this post. You are just angry because I disagree with you.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Another issue with multiple partner or group sex, is that you then have to accept group decision making, in order to remain in the group. This ultimately was what convinced my friend and his wife that swinging wasn't for them. They began to feel group pressure to do things that they weren't comfortable with. In a monogamous relationship you have only one other person to consider, that is usually enough .


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> If people make false statements based in ignorance I am going to counter that. If that is intolerant so be it.
> 
> No-one was personally insulted in this post. You are just angry because I disagree with you.


I don't give a **** either way. See, you are projecting your issues onto me. You need to lighten up as well as practice what you preach.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> I don't give a **** either way. See, you are projecting your issues onto me. You need to lighten up as well as practice what you preach.


I preach tolerance and respect for people's lifestyle choices. People make all sorts of formats work, there a happy poly-amorous trios out there and there are miserable couples who are entirely faithful. Who are we to say who does and who doesn't 'truly' love each other?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I preach tolerance and respect for people's lifestyle choices. People make all sorts of formats work, there a happy poly-amorous trios out there and there are miserable couples who are entirely faithful. Who are we to say who does and who doesn't 'truly' love each other?



Johnny,

Have you ever tried a threesome?

Are you married?

If so how does your wife feel about it?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Johnny,
> 
> Have you ever tried a threesome?
> 
> ...


I have, before marriage.

I am married. My wife likes the idea and the fantasy, she wavers on the reality. She feels that my fantasy (MFM) is loving, romantic and has brought us closer together. The main thing is that she knows that I love and respect her and I know the same. 

We have talked about it a lot and fantasised and we have been to a swingers club, but we have yet to take the plunge, and we may never. If we were to do this it would be from a position of strength and it would be an adventure we would take together.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> *For you.
> *
> You can't tell people how to run their marriages or how they feel about their partners because of the lifestyle choices that they make.
> 
> *Considering the the success rate I don't think we should be too smug about the traditional 'Judeo-Christian' marriage.* In reality we have never really been truly monogamous.


And we wonder why we have the problems we have. Marriage has a clear cut definition. It is not meant to be redefined to suit other people's fancies. This is true for a lot of things, but I find it laughable that you think it valid to take something that is concretely defined and pursue to redefine it to suit your whims. 

Smug about Christian marriages? Professing to be a Christian does not automatically make you a holier person. People are people, and we all have shortcomings. But the model of the Judeo-Christian marriage is an ideal that we should strive for within our marriages. Even if we fall short, it's better to at least try our best than to merely throw up our hands, proclaim "this is impossible" and use this statement as a license to wipe our asses with our marriage licenses just because marriage is hard work...


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> And we wonder why we have the problems we have. Marriage has a clear cut definition. It is not meant to be redefined to suit other people's fancies. This is true for a lot of things, but I find it laughable that you think it valid to take something that is concretely defined and pursue to redefine it to suit your whims.
> 
> Smug about Christian marriages? Professing to be a Christian does not automatically make you a holier person. People are people, and we all have shortcomings. But the model of the Judeo-Christian marriage is an ideal that we should strive for within our marriages. Even if we fall short, it's better to at least try our best than to merely throw up our hands, proclaim "this is impossible" and use this statement as a license to wipe our asses with our marriage licenses just because marriage is hard work...


So the alternatives are the failed Judeo-Christian ideal or to 'wipe our asses' with our marriage licences? I disagree. Marriage pre-dates Christianity and exists outside of it. Christians have no right to dictate how marriage is defined or how it should be lived in practice. People have the right to define their relationships as they see fit.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> So the alternatives are the failed Judeo-Christian ideal or to 'wipe our asses' with our marriage licences? I disagree. Marriage pre-dates Christianity and exists outside of it. *Christians have no right to dictate how marriage is defined or how it should be lived in practice.* People have the right to define their relationships as they see fit.


Whether you like it or not, marriage is defined precisely like it is in the Judeo-Christian ideals - especially since the time of Christ - for the western world. The U.S. is a prime example of this because the country was colonized by and later founded as a country by Europeans. Christian rules have been woven into the system of laws throughout the U.S. Since this "offends" your sensibilities, then let's throw in weddings based on Hinduism, Islam and how it is defined in Communist China. Sorry dude, but the numbers are on our side and marriage is defined as a monogamous union between 2 people. That's what marriage is, that's how it's defined. So yes, if you elect to live in an open marriage - that's your choice. However, by objective standards defined by the laws of the U.S. and many other countries around the world, you are indeed wiping your ass with your marriage license. I will not yield this point. It is blatantly obvious to almost everyone that a marriage is a monogamous relationship between 2 people.


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Whether you like it or not, marriage is defined precisely like it is in the Judeo-Christian ideals - especially since the time of Christ - for the western world. The U.S. is a prime example of this because the country was colonized by and later founded as a country by Europeans. Christian rules have been woven into the system of laws throughout the U.S. Since this "offends" your sensibilities, then let's throw in weddings based on Hinduism, Islam and how it is defined in Communist China. Sorry dude, but the numbers are on our side and marriage is defined as a monogamous union between 2 people. That's what marriage is, that's how it's defined. So yes, if you elect to live in an open marriage - that's your choice. However, by objective standards defined by the laws of the U.S. and many other countries around the world, you are indeed wiping your ass with your marriage license. I will not yield this point. It is blatantly obvious to almost everyone that a marriage is a monogamous relationship between 2 people.


Just what is "your" side exactly? A marriage is between 2 people. Can they be gay? Does it have to be monogomous according to the founding fathers? (No sarcasim, i'm asking) Christian rules may have been woven into laws but not at the birth of the constitution. There it was very clear-keep religion out of politics and laws. I am not saying threesomes or whatever works, but neither does monogomy-not really. The problem really isn't monogomy though, the problem may actually be the confines of marriage and one other person forever (and i don't mean sexually). People change and drift. People are lazy. Women are not tied to their spouse the way they used to be. It is indeed a different world. As relationships change and continue to evolve, so will many people's definition of marriage. To many who hold and adhere to religious beliefs, it won't and that is fine. To many others though, marriage will become what they make it. The term marriage itself is so boring. I mean, i hear people giving advice on TAM to people in a long term relationship (2-10 yrs) and talk as if their relationship is not the same as a marriage because they didn't have the ceremony.


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

A way to cure threesome and foursome fantasies....

Think about watching your your wife **** another dude while you are present.

Now think about the same scene and you are not there.

Unless you have a culkold festish that should cure you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> That's why you never get "in the group." Like I said on the prev page of the thread, you do it as a one time thing... on vacations, you pick up a partner (or escort, etc) at the bar 1000mi from home or just go to a resort where it's implied that people will be looking for the same thing you and your spouse are. There's no "group" mentality to deal with afterwards; it's over and you're back in your home town with no reputation risks or clinger partner or anything. You are free to just discuss the experience with your spouse and decide what you both want to do in the future.
> 
> ...If you and your spouse truly want a bona fide ongoing and sustainable swingers marriage, then yes, the closed group (5+ couples usually) is the responsible way to go for reasoning of STD prevention, communication, relative secrecy, etc. Problems and distrust occur pretty fast when someone strays outside the group, though... and that happens frequently. The obvious problem with that setup is that although you get more variety of sexual partners, you are still "limited" to the group. That doesn't usually satisfy all 10+ people who have high sexual drive and interest if they entered such an arrangement to begin with.
> 
> I've met plenty of couples/spouses where either partner is free to go take home random people from the bar or take a solo sex vacation and they just have an open marriage with basically no plan aside from both partners avoiding emotional intimacy outside the marriage and avoiding pregnancies or STDs. That is clearly fraught with a million relationship, sexual health, physical health, community reputation, trust, etc pitfalls. I don't see why anyone would enjoy that (the people I met were all considered a joke and basically just gossip fodder at their work/social circle), but to each their own. That's why it's a free country.


Thanks, Learnin, all of these issues and pitfalls that you mention in this post are further reasons why this is such a bad idea.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> I preach tolerance and respect for people's lifestyle choices. People make all sorts of formats work, there a happy poly-amorous trios out there and there are miserable couples who are entirely faithful. Who are we to say who does and who doesn't 'truly' love each other?


 You specifically said about those who disagree with you, that their opinions were"bunk", and called their advice childish. Are these examples of your tolerance?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> For you.
> 
> You can't tell people how to run their marriages or how they feel about their partners because of the lifestyle choices that they make.
> 
> Considering the the success rate I don't think we should be too smug about the traditional 'Judeo-Christian' marriage. In reality we have never really been truly monogamous.


BTW, Judeo-Christian marriage has been in existance for over 8,000years, there have probably been hundreds of millions of successful ones, I wouldn't be too critical if I were you. Lessee, who should I believe? Johnnycomelately or Jesus Christ, all Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Whether you like it or not, marriage is defined precisely like it is in the Judeo-Christian ideals - especially since the time of Christ - for the western world. The U.S. is a prime example of this because the country was colonized by and later founded as a country by Europeans. Christian rules have been woven into the system of laws throughout the U.S. Since this "offends" your sensibilities, then let's throw in weddings based on Hinduism, Islam and how it is defined in Communist China. Sorry dude, but the numbers are on our side and marriage is defined as a monogamous union between 2 people. That's what marriage is, that's how it's defined. So yes, if you elect to live in an open marriage - that's your choice. However, by objective standards defined by the laws of the U.S. and many other countries around the world, you are indeed wiping your ass with your marriage license. I will not yield this point. It is blatantly obvious to almost everyone that a marriage is a monogamous relationship between 2 people.


Marriage has always been about property, not monogamy. Marriage only came into being after the agricultural revolution which brought the need to define an heir. Men have never truly been monogamous and they weren't even expected to try until the last 100 years or so with the rise of women's rights. Throughout most of its history marriage has been about male property, which included his wife. The monogamy ordinance was designed to ensure that the male did not pass on his property to someone else's son. 

Should women be the property of men? After all that was the 'Judeo-Chrsitian' ideal for thousands of years and no-one has the right to redefine marriage.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Marriage has always been about property, not monogamy. Marriage only came into being after the agricultural revolution which brought the need to define an heir. Men have never truly been monogamous and they weren't even expected to try until the last 100 years or so with the rise of women's rights. Throughout most of its history marriage has been about male property, which included his wife. The monogamy ordinance was designed to ensure that the male did not pass on his property to someone else's son.
> 
> Should women be the property of men? After all that was the 'Judeo-Chrsitian' ideal for thousands of years and no-one has the right to redefine marriage.


Very untrue, where do you get your misinformation from? While I agree marriage does pre date the Christian view of marriage, I disagree that men were not expected to be faithful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*If you don't mind your spouse doing another person all in your face that is you. For me I just don't have any interest in it. All my dreams include my man and me only. *


*The best thing we can do is stay on topic*


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Very untrue, where do you get your misinformation from? While I agree marriage does pre date the Christian view of marriage, I disagree that men were not expected to be faithful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I am sorry Littledeer but it is true. Fidelity is _still_ not expected of men in most of the world. 

As for 'Judeo-Christian' marriage, the founder of Judaism, Abraham, kept concubines and slept with his slaves. Throughout history men have been able to keep mistresses if they could afford them and sleep with prostitutes if they couldn't.

*Wikipedia:*

_The Old Testament prescribes capital punishment for adultery between a man and married woman, though not for adultery between a woman and a married man. 
_
_Historical context

Historically, in most cultures, laws against adultery were enacted only to prevent women—*and not men*—from having sexual relations with anyone other than their spouses, whose property they were deemed. _

*From the New World Encyclopedia:*

_In some cultures, adultery was defined as a crime *only when a wife had sexual relations with a man who was not her husband;** a husband could be unfaithful to his wife without it being considered adultery.* For example, in the Graeco-Roman world we find stringent laws against adultery, yet almost throughout they discriminate against the wife. The ancient idea that the wife was the property of the husband is still operative. The lending of wives was, as Plutarch tells us, encouraged also by Lycurgus.[5] There was, *therefore, no such thing as the crime of adultery on the part of a husband towards his wife*. The recognized license of the Greek husband may be seen in the following passage of the Oration against Neaera, the author of which is uncertain though it has been attributed to Demosthenes:_

*Pace University about Victorian women:*

_"women had to be not only virgins, but were expected to remain innocent and “free from any thought of love or sexuality” until after they had received a proposal (Kane 97). *This requirement of chastity and absolute purity was not expected of men, as the potential husband had the freedom to participate in premarital and extramarital sexual relationships. *Such a biased idea was one of many double standards in Victorian society, which demanded unquestionable compliance from women and none from men, since the women were thought to be controlled by their sexuality and were thus in need of regulation."_

Even a brief glance through history will show that men have been free to be promiscuous. Even in pious, Christian Victorian England. Kings, the Defenders of the Faith, had mistresses openly, so did rich merchants and other important people. Ordinary men used prostitutes as below:

Victorian London - Crime - Prostitution - numbers of prostitutes

There is no doubt that men have only been expected to be faithful as women have become educated and gained some equality.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> _The Old Testament prescribes capital punishment for adultery between a man and married woman, though not for adultery between a woman and a married man.
> _
> _Historical context
> 
> ...



*Today in 2012 we have AIDS and STDS to make you think twice about sleeping with every and anything . A man or woman who cheats can now bring home more than just a nasty smell. Sometimes people just forget about that fact. So sharing yourself and spouse with a third person could be dangerous.*


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Badblood said:


> A person doesn't have to eat sh*t, to know it tastes bad.




of course they do ! otherwise they are only assuming that it tastes bad based on what someone else has told them . that is common sense ! 

if your statement was true we would all like to eat the same things.... there are obviously people who do not think **** tastes bad . there are plenty of videos showing that .. 

i think carrots taste disgusting . my wife and son both love carrots . based on that would you think carrots tasted good or bad ? obviously you would not know until you tasted carrots for yourself ............ 

the only way anyone can give an honest accurate opinion of anything is if they have experience on that subject ..... even then it is not a fact , it is only your opinion . and my mother always told that opinions are like *******s , everyone has one .......


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Very untrue, where do you get your misinformation from? While I agree marriage does pre date the Christian view of marriage, I disagree that men were not expected to be faithful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




it is clear that throughout history the more wealthy or powerful a man was the more acceptable and likely it was that he had multiple wives , or at the very least many concubines or lovers . women however were never allowed to have multiple husbands . 

a mans family has and in some parts of the world still do negotiate a price that is paid to a womans family for her . women historically could not own land , or work . women could not vote , or hold any position in of leadership or government . historically women have been viewed even as the property of a her husband or father .

even now , although few , there are still places in the world and religions being practiced where women are expected to be monogamous while men are not .


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

This is getting no where, i mean so long people put the dogmatic assumption between love=marriage aside. I pretty much agree to have a three-some and orgy with my spouse if we both agree to have one (not pressuring one and another). 

We believe that love is that each of the spouse respecting each other's boundaries as well as being honest with each other. I know it sounds naive and cliché but that is the meaning of loving each other. 

Anyways me and my wifey had been fantasizing a threesome since marriage 5 years ago, we had been considering swinging for a while and we call it off eventually when one of my friend (a lawyer) told a story where a couple who got divorce because of swinging (and from what he said the divorce was a messy one).

Running out of ideas, whilst giving up the idea my wife suggested that we should go to a brothel and had a three-some with one of the prostitutes (or escorts since it sounds fancy). Reluctant at first (for 5 minutes), then we had set up a few rules such as no kissing, no spooning and etc........

After setting the rules (which can be modified after each "encounter") each of us spouses try to find a high-end brothel that provides a "couples package" and we go to that brothel "which must not be named" choose one of the girls (my wife do the choosing) and we had fun!

The bottom line of my experiences are, so long you and your spouse had set up flexible rules, constant communication (i mean CONSTANT) and expressing your emotions in detail. Having extramarital sex is plausible but only if both of the spouse are kinky, adventurous as well as communicative to each other (as well as no insecurities).

p.s oh by the way i actually expect criticisms from people who say our lifestyle is "immoral" or "against god" etc. i m a libertarian and my wife is a center-left winger we both don't believe in the so called "god" and we believe in our own destiny so please don't try to judge our lifestyle choice thanks 

p.p.s also this is my first thread so again be nice to newbies


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Badblood said:


> BTW, Judeo-Christian marriage has been in existance for over 8,000years, there have probably been hundreds of millions of successful ones, I wouldn't be too critical if I were you. Lessee, who should I believe? Johnnycomelately or Jesus Christ, all Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths?




who you should believe depends on what you believe . are you jewish , christian , or muslim ? if so you should believe which ever religion you believe in . if you do not belong to any of them you should not believe any of them . 

there have been millions that were successful , and millions that were not . millions that were monogamous and millions that were not . 


no matter which religion , if any , you believe as long as your partner knows about and is ok with what you do then you are not cheating on or being unfaithful to your partner . 

swinging is not for everyone . it is not even for the majority of people . it is only for people who choose to do it . as long as you and your partner know , and accept what ever it is you 2 are doing . it can not be wrong .


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> swinging is not for everyone . it is not even for the majority of people . it is only for people who choose to do it . as long as you and your partner know , and accept what ever it is you 2 are doing . it can not be wrong .


Even i don't have the guts to do it (we chicken out anyway and theres no shame on being chicken out:lol


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

the liberal one said:


> Even i don't have the guts to do it (we chicken out anyway and theres no shame on being chicken out:lol



there is definitely no shame . you should not even think of it as chickening out for not doing it . it is something that should be taken very seriously , and talked about honestly by any couple considering doing it . 

first and foremost be honest with yourself . you know if you will or will not view your partner any differently . if you will , definitely do not do it . if you think there is any chance that you would not trust your partner afterwards , do not do it . 

if you are your partner are considering doing it talk about , and be completely honest about every aspect of it . whether it is mfm or fmf or a couple , be honest about how you feel , why you want to do it , what you want for yourself , what you want for your partner , what your fears are , what you will and wont do with each other , what you will and wont do with the other person , how you will handle it if you do not like something the other person does or says , how you will handle it if your partner does or says something you do not like , how you want to begin , how long you want the meeting to go , how you want to handle it if after starting one or both of you do not like it , and what you want to do after you are done doing it . 

although it is not necessary , it is best to talk to the person or people you are going to do it with about the same things if at all possible . you will have a much better chance of nothing going wrong this way . 

the next day after everything is said and done talk to your partner about every aspect of what happened . it is even more important to be completely honest now than ever . talk about what you liked , and didnt like , what you liked and didnt like that your partner did , what you want more of , what you want less of , why you liked and didnt like these things , and if you want to do it again or not . 


most importantly is to be 100% sure both you and your partner want to try doing it . if either of you are not 100% sure it is not a good idea to do it . if you are both 100% sure , and have been honest with yourself and each other . the worse that can happen is you dont like it and do not want to do it again.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

the liberal one said:


> This is getting no where, i mean so long people put the dogmatic assumption between love=marriage aside. I pretty much agree to have a three-some and orgy with my spouse if we both agree to have one (not pressuring one and another).
> 
> We believe that love is that each of the spouse respecting each other's boundaries as well as being honest with each other. I know it sounds naive and cliché but that is the meaning of loving each other.
> 
> ...




someone stated to me earlier that you do not have to eat **** to know it tastes bad . to this i replied , of course you do ! if you do not taste it for yourself then how could you possibly know how it tastes ? 

i bring this up in reference to your friends story about the couple who got divorced . his advice to you to not try it was not based on his own experience , but the experience of someone else . which basically equates to him telling you that someone told him **** tastes bad so you it will taste bad to you too . im sure you like many things your friend does not like , and vice versa . maybe something as simple as what beer you like , or ford vs chevy , or which tv shows you like and dont like . if you can have different opinions on things that simple how could you possible know if you agree on something as complex as your sex life with your partner ? 


swinging is definitely not for most people . but it is definitely for some people . the only way to know is being honest with yourself , your partner , and experiencing it for yourself .


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> there is definitely no shame . you should not even think of it as chickening out for not doing it . it is something that should be taken very seriously , and talked about honestly by any couple considering doing it .
> 
> first and foremost be honest with yourself . you know if you will or will not view your partner any differently . if you will , definitely do not do it . if you think there is any chance that you would not trust your partner afterwards , do not do it .
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree: totally agree thats why me and my wifey find an alternative way of swinging by hiring an escort from the brothel since we know that we are not emotionally attached to her or him and vice versa since they are just merely doing their "job" 

p.s but it is quite expensive to keep up with this lifestyle (quite unaffordable for a typical household)



stoney1215 said:


> someone stated to me earlier that you do not have to eat **** to know it tastes bad . to this i replied , of course you do ! if you do not taste it for yourself then how could you possibly know how it tastes ?
> 
> i bring this up in reference to your friends story about the couple who got divorced . his advice to you to not try it was not based on his own experience , but the experience of someone else . which basically equates to him telling you that someone told him **** tastes bad so you it will taste bad to you too . im sure you like many things your friend does not like , and vice versa . maybe something as simple as what beer you like , or ford vs chevy , or which tv shows you like and dont like . if you can have different opinions on things that simple how could you possible know if you agree on something as complex as your sex life with your partner ?
> 
> ...


i understand what you mean, but because i know the potential dangers of swinging such as emotional attachment to another swinger scares me and my wife. So we chose our expensive alternative and its totally worth it.

(and yeah i m quite a careful person in a-lot of thing especially our sex lives since it can make or break a marriage)


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

After reading some of the posts in this forum, I am beginning to wonder if I am normal? 

I ask this because, I have never had the fantasy of group sex, I have never had the fantasy of sharing my wife, I have never had the fantasy of my wife sharing me. 

In fact the thought of it all actually makes me very angry and sickens me. If my wife decided that- me, myself or I no longer were enough for her sexual gratification, I would simply walk away. I did it once

With me, sex is an expression of the love you have for your signifigant other. It is a manifestation of trust and devotion. To have sex with someone else outside of your marriage just violates everything that is good.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I would like to add, when I got married I promised my wife (in front of about 75 witnesses and a preacher) to "have and to hold from this day forward; to love, to honour, to cherish; in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse; having only unto you and foresaking all others fas as long as we both shall live."

I ask y'all, where in that promise does it say that she or I can bring a third party into our relationship or swap her with someone else. I gave my word. My word is my bond. Negotiated infidelity is still infidelity. It violates my word and that is wrong.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> After reading some of the posts in this forum, I am beginning to wonder if I am normal?
> 
> I ask this because, I have never had the fantasy of group sex, I have never had the fantasy of sharing my wife, I have never had the fantasy of my wife sharing me.
> 
> ...


There is nothing abnormal about that. If it works for you and your partner, great. The thing is that some people aren't built the same way as you. 

Some people aren't capable of fidelity and if they can find a way to make their marriages work, who are we to criticise? Wouldn't it be more rational to be pragmatic and open rather than strive for something that is impossible and end up treaing people's lives apart?

Rigid monogamy, for both partners, has had a brief history that has been characterised by a very high marriage failure rate and huge amounts of emotional turmoil for everyone involved. We really have no right to ram it down people's throats. Each couple has the right to find what works for them.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

If you can't be true and loyal to only your spouse, then why bother getting married at all? Why not just shack up and "do your own thing"? 

Sex in marriage is an act of love that is supposed to create a bond of trust and integrity. If you can not be true to your spouse, then you really don't have any respect for yourself or your spouce.

IMHO


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

Furthormore, every human being is capable of fidelity. It just takes a little self discipline, respect and courage to do the RIGHT thing.


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> After reading some of the posts in this forum, I am beginning to wonder if I am normal?
> 
> I ask this because, I have never had the fantasy of group sex, I have never had the fantasy of sharing my wife, I have never had the fantasy of my wife sharing me.
> 
> ...


Well the almighty god will be proud of you, actually you just won yourself a ticket to heaven for this comment. (not just some people who gives money to the church to buy that ticket)


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> Furthormore, every human being is capable of fidelity. It just takes a little self discipline, respect and courage to do the RIGHT thing.


Its a nice ideal, but the reality out there is very different.


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Rigid monogamy, for both partners, has had a brief history that has been characterised by a very high marriage failure rate and huge amounts of emotional turmoil for everyone involved. We really have no right to ram it down people's throats. Each couple has the right to find what works for them.


Thats why old_soldier had 2 marriages, one is being cheated on and the other seem to be a happy ending where he can use his marriage to ram his monogamous ideals into other's mouth (since he is a soldier i guess he would actually literally do it) 

p.s at least its not trolling :smthumbup:


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> Furthormore, every human being is capable of fidelity. It just takes a little self discipline, respect and courage to do the RIGHT thing.


i actually laughed :lol: with my wife standing next to me, humans are not monogamous by nature. We are just animals who love to spread their seed and open their legs for reproduction. No matter how civilized we are, our evolutionary pace will never catch up the pace of social norms.

p.s you just ignore the fact that we are still animals


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

stoney1215 said:


> who you should believe depends on what you believe . are you jewish , christian , or muslim ? if so you should believe which ever religion you believe in . if you do not belong to any of them you should not believe any of them .
> 
> there have been millions that were successful , and millions that were not . millions that were monogamous and millions that were not .
> 
> ...


It can be wrong and quite often is. You are being disengenuous. As you well know, monogamy is the rule rather than the exception in almost all cultures and certainly in modern times. You are attempting to put the history of swinging on the same plain as monogamy, which is NOT true in any way, shape or form. I don't mind debating , as long as you debate honestly. When you use deliberately false information to advance your position, then debate is useless. So say again that non-monogamy is the same, historically, morally or culturally. NOT ONE of those can be proven , in any way.


----------



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> There is nothing abnormal about that. If it works for you and your partner, great. The thing is that some people aren't built the same way as you.
> 
> Some people aren't capable of fidelity and if they can find a way to make their marriages work, who are we to criticise? Wouldn't it be more rational to be pragmatic and open rather than strive for something that is impossible and end up treaing people's lives apart?
> 
> Rigid monogamy, for both partners, has had a brief history that has been characterised by a very high marriage failure rate and huge amounts of emotional turmoil for everyone involved. We really have no right to ram it down people's throats. Each couple has the right to find what works for them.


This is totally false. Advance you argument with facts or I'm gone. I wll not debate with falsehoods.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

the liberal one said:


> i actually laughed :lol: with my wife standing next to me, humans are not monogamous by nature. We are just animals who love to spread their seed and open their legs for reproduction. No matter how civilized we are, our evolutionary pace will never catch up the pace of social norms.
> 
> p.s you just ignore the fact that we are still animals


This is your opinion and only that. You can PROVE not one word.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

the liberal one said:


> Well the almighty god will be proud of you, actually you just won yourself a ticket to heaven for this comment. (not just some people who gives money to the church to buy that ticket)


This post is demeaning and insulting to Old Soldier, who has as much right to his opinion as you do to yours.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Actually I am gone anyway. This thread has taken more of my time than I ever intended. I would, however, caution anyone considering these practices to seek INDEPENDENT advice from both positive and negative sources, before deciding on the advisability of adopting them. Those posters who are advocating these practices quite simply are not presenting a balanced representation of the dangers of them.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> It can be wrong and quite often is. You are being disengenuous. As you well know, monogamy is the rule rather than the exception in almost all cultures and certainly in modern times.


Do you have any evidence to support your claim? I have provided evidence in an earlier post that shows that non-monogamy, for men, was the norm up until Victorian times.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> This is totally false. Advance you argument with facts or I'm gone. I wll not debate with falsehoods.


I provided some evidence earlier. But you are free to go if you wish.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Some more evidence:

_From Polygamy to Serial Monogamy: a Unified Theory of
Marriage Institutions
David de la Croix† Fabio Mariani‡
January 10, 2012
Abstract

Polygynous mating
eventually evolved into* polygynous marriage, which has long been the dominating marriage institution
in human societies, and still characterizes a majority of contemporaneous traditional*
societies, as confirmed by several ethnographic studies.2_


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> As you well know, monogamy is the rule rather than the exception in almost all cultures and certainly in modern times.


_In Murdoch’s ethnographic atlas, out of *1231* societies, *186* were monogamous, 453 had occasional polygyny,
588 had more frequent polygyny (while 4 practiced polyandry), as stressed in Gould, Moav, and Simhon (2008)._


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> I provided some evidence earlier. But you are free to go if you wish.


LOL. I will go or stay , whether you want it or not.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Some more evidence:
> 
> _From Polygamy to Serial Monogamy: a Unified Theory of
> Marriage Institutions
> ...


Thank you, Johnny, AT LAST, some actual evidence. I will certainly look this up. Any help you can give me as to where I might find it, would be welcome.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> _In Murdoch’s ethnographic atlas, out of *1231* societies, *186* were monogamous, 453 had occasional polygyny,
> 588 had more frequent polygyny (while 4 practiced polyandry), as stressed in Gould, Moav, and Simhon (2008)._


Ditto, the above post.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

the liberal one said:


> well don't argue with Badblood, he just thinks that non-monogamy are for non-believers or sinners like us (because we don't believe in Jesus and god) as well as old_soldier he is like someone who will force people to believe in his "ideals by means of insults
> 
> they are just nutters and trolls typical in the internet


Johnnycomelately has at least provided some interesting evidence to support his beliefs. You, on the other hand, have only made snide , offensive remarks. FYI, I am not a practicing Christian, but I am a believer in traditional marriage with it's responsibilities and concerns. My motive is to provide a cautionary note to those posters who are contemplating these practices, nothing more or less. Never call me names again, or I will contact the moderator.


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Johnnycomelately has at least provided some interesting evidence to support his beliefs. You, on the other hand, have only made snide , offensive remarks. FYI, I am not a practicing Christian, but I am a believer in traditional marriage with it's responsibilities and concerns. My motive is to provide a cautionary note to those posters who are contemplating these practices, nothing more or less. Never call me names again, or I will contact the moderator.


i will take your word "seriously" and in the mean time i had things to do...........


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> Ditto, the above post.


The title of the first is the source, same with the second.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I will certainly read it. I'm not saying that I will approve, but I will give it a fair shot. Thanks again.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Badblood said:


> I will certainly read it.  I'm not saying that I will approve, but I will give it a fair shot. Thanks again.


There are plenty more studies where those came from. 

You just have to look at how many prostitutes operate in every city in the world to know that even supposedly monogamous societies are in fact far from it. The piece I posted about Victorian London stated that men weren't expected to be monogamous and the second article, taken from Victorian police reports, showed that 1 in 40 of the residents of London were prostitutes. Monogamy has always been aspirational, even in societies where it is supposedly against religious or social 'rules'.

As for the physical evidence that we have evolved to be promiscuous there is plenty. Take for example the fact that men produce millions and millions of sperm throughout their adult lives, whilst women produce one egg a month. Why would evolution waste all that energy producing something useless? The fact that human males have relatively large testicles, as above, designed to impregnante multiple females. The fact that human males are larger than females, thought to be in order to defend a small harem and to try and prevent mate poaching.

There is a lot of very strong, credible evidence that humans have never been truly monogamous. Just look around this site, do you need more evidence?

If monogamy were a roaring success and provided stable, happy marriages there would be a case for insisting that it is the only way to go. The sad fact is that it isn't a success and our attempts at forcing everyone to be monogamous have been a failure. 

You can choose to try this difficult route, as I have, but you can't demand that your failed version of marriage is the only acceptable one.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

The problems with Polygamy are outlined in this article

The problem with polygamy - Slate Magazine

I agree and would go further and say that Polygamy does not value women and disadvantages women and some men too.

The fact that some women in some cultures have so little choice, or where they have a little more choice, but think so little of themselves that they don't think they are worthy of being the only woman in a man's life.

IMO men who would choose polygamy do not value women as they should, and have a need to bolster their self esteem and are lacking in empathy and respect.

JMO


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't need a bunch of half azzed books written by bleedin heart liberals with an agenda to prove a falsehood to defend my stance, I have real life i.e. parents married 58 years, all manogomous, maternal grandparents, 62 years, paternal grandparents, 52 years, sister 43 years, aunt & uncle 51 years. All manogomus, no swinging, no swapping all successful.

For the liberal guy, I'm not cramming anything down your throat. If you want to believe you are nothing more than an animal, you are free to do so, humans are mammals as in feed their young from the mammories of the female of the spiece, but we have evolved to much more than animals.

It has been my experiance that those that practice the art of swinging, couple swapping ect. are accomplished liars and manipulators, con artists if you wish, with very low standards of loyalty or duty to family.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Good grief everyone, you've all provided your opinion. You all seem to be getting mad at one another because the other side won't come over to your side. They are who they are, you are who you are. Accept it! You're never going to convince the other.

You don't want a threesome? Don't have one.
You want a threesome? Fine. Have one.

But everyone quit trying to evangelize the other side.

Sorry, that comes off as kind of strong. Let me rephrase...

But everyone PLEASE quit trying to evangelize the other side.

Carribean Man, what hath thou wrought?


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

I disagree with almost all of johnnycomelately's _*opinions*_. But when it comes to stating historical and biological *facts *on the subjects of monogamy and the original chattel status of wives, he's kicking the **** of all those attacking him.

As a guy who is perfectly happy with a monogamous 33-year relationship, I'm certainly not saying history controls the present. But it's silly to ignore or deny that history.

As for everybody's opinions, I'll go with what sandc just posted.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

sandc said:


> Good grief everyone, you've all provided your opinion. You all seem to be getting mad at one another because the other side won't come over to your side. They are who they are, you are who you are. Accept it! You're never going to convince the other.
> 
> You don't want a threesome? Don't have one.
> You want a threesome? Fine. Have one.
> ...


THAAAAAAAAAAANKKKK YOUU!!!!:iagree:


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sandc said:


> You don't want a threesome? Don't have one.
> You want a threesome? Fine. Have one.


Could I have a cup of tea instead?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Good grief everyone, you've all provided your opinion. You all seem to be getting mad at one another because the other side won't come over to your side. They are who they are, you are who you are. Accept it! You're never going to convince the other.
> 
> You don't want a threesome? Don't have one.
> You want a threesome? Fine. Have one.
> ...


Sandc,
I am right here my Caribbean brother!
Listening to both sides.

One thing I've learned in life is that ,

"...A person convinced against him own mind is of the same opinion still..."

Difference of opinions, strong reactions, arguments to and fro,
I take everything in good spirits.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Could I have a cup of tea instead?



Certainly.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Could I have a cup of tea instead?


Johnny,
That depend's on what your **cup of tea** is like.

By now you would realize that your **cup of tea** is not be the same as badblood's ** cup of tea..**:rofl:


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sandc,
> I am right here my Caribbean brother!
> Listening to both sides.
> 
> ...


I get that. I jus don' wan dem start bobolizing each udda.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Badblood said:


> It can be wrong and quite often is. You are being disengenuous. As you well know, monogamy is the rule rather than the exception in almost all cultures and certainly in modern times. You are attempting to put the history of swinging on the same plain as monogamy, which is NOT true in any way, shape or form. I don't mind debating , as long as you debate honestly. When you use deliberately false information to advance your position, then debate is useless. So say again that non-monogamy is the same, historically, morally or culturally. NOT ONE of those can be proven , in any way.



swinging can be wrong or right . it is an activity . it is a choice . the choice can be right or wrong . not the act . 

i did not get into the history of swinging at all . the fact is millions of people have enjoyed swinging successfully , and millions have had bad experiences swinging . i also never said that monogomy was not the norm in society . it most certainly is . 

debate is also useless when one person in the debate misreads or misunderstands every thing that the other person says . 

to clarify i stated that you should believe the people of which ever religion you believe in . if you do not believe in any religion , you should not believe what the people who believe in them say you should believe in what ever you say . millions of people have been successful and millions have not been successful in swinging . millions of people have been monogamous , and millions of people have not been monogamous . if you and your partner know , and agree with each of you having sex with other people you are not cheating on . swinging is not for everyone . if you and your partner think swinging is right for you to do then it can not be wrong . 


each and every statement is 100% true .........


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Could I have a cup of tea instead?




thats the best thing about living in a country where you are free to make your own choices . you can drink a cup of what ever you want to drink . you can even drink more than 1 cup . no matter how many people do not like tea or think tea tastes terrible , if you want to drink tea , you can ......


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> After reading some of the posts in this forum, I am beginning to wonder if I am normal?
> 
> I ask this because, I have never had the fantasy of group sex, I have never had the fantasy of sharing my wife, I have never had the fantasy of my wife sharing me.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*If it is your thing, I am not hating on you. I just could not get turned on watching another woman with my man. I am not into the swapping. No I have never dreamed of it. On this issue I will just agree to disagree * .


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok,
From the comments , arguments on the thread I get that there are two camps.
In one camp there are the traditional, monogamous couples like myself , who think that marriage vows are literal, and that sex between more than two people is not suited for married couples.

In the other camp, there are those who think that once both partners agree, a third person or more could partake in the sexual experience and "enrich " it .
Clearly, they feel quite strongly about it. They have said that many couples swing worldwide, and are happy with their marriage. Thay have also said that so long as the proper
" checks and balances" have been put into place, everything usually goes well.

My question to those inclined to threesomes and the swinging lifestyle is this.
What do you think is behind this urge to have a third or more parties involved in sexual activity with yourselves? 
Does the activity itself bring intimacy? 
Or is it just the " fun aspect" or the " thrill " that makes it worth taking the risk?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok,
> From the comments , arguments on the thread I get that there are two camps.
> In one camp there are the traditional, monogamous couples like myself , who think that marriage vows are literal, and that sex between more than two people is not suited for married couples.
> 
> ...


I am turned on by my wife being sexual and experiencing pleasure. This characteristic is known as compersion. As to why, I believe that this taps into sub-conscious sexual urges that we evolved but have suppressed over centuries. I believe that our sexuality in the past resembled that of the Bonobos and that there are still remnants of this sexual past influencing our sexuality.

As for bringing intimacy, yes that is the case for me. Keeping in mind that this is still just a fantasy for us. The fantasy has made my marriage stronger, warmer and more understanding. Jealousy is so destructive and for me and my wife it has been more or less defeated. I don't expect or want her to completely suppress her sexuality as I love the real her, not just a repressed, socially acceptable version of her.

Can I ask you CM? Why are you so interested?


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Can I ask you CM? Why are you so interested?


I am interested because I have read both sides of the arguments , and both arguments appear to be sound. From a logical perspective.

What I want to find out is the _how and why,_ or the psychology behind it.

There must be a reason because lots of people are into it. It is cannot be classified as a " borderline" activity, because down here in the Caribbean, lots of cruise liners, and tourists [ mainly European ] come with couples looking for male partners to have threesome sex with them.

It is a thriving business.

So I'm just wondering why?


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> #]Well, you are obviously pretty damn interested in it if you keep posting, asking, and commenting on it?
> 
> #]First, you are dead wrong to put swing lifestyle and threesomes in the same group.
> 
> .


#1] I started this thread, BECAUSE I'm interested in finding out about it. I have clearly stated my position several times, but that doesn't mean other people are not welcome to express their opinion, for or against. 
That is the purpose of the thread, as I EXPRESSLY stated in the original post.

#2] Yes, I'm wrong. That's why I started this thread in the first place,to find out THE FACTS. Some say this, others say that.
What are the facts.
That's my mission in starting this thread.


----------



## doodlebug (Nov 9, 2012)

Well, I must say I'm from the perspective of it being ok, in certain circumstances. 

I understand that my opinion may not be popular, but hey live and let live.

I love my mister, and out of that love I do not feel a level of ownership or jealousy toward him, and him same to me. Not that I wouldn't be hurt if he were to cheat on me, but it would more the deception than the action itself that would bother me.

I am also openly bisexual, I have been my whole life, so I can appreciate the beauty and warmth (physical and emotional) of a woman as much as he can. So we have already spoken of the possibility of this happening and I feel ok as long as it is with the right woman under the right circumstances. 

We are both very good communicators, and can express our needs, fears and issues very clearly, and this creates the boundaries that we work within and stretch out to help each other grow. In the beginning of the conversation we were both afraid that adding another woman into our bed, even for one night may complicate things, fears of infidelity cropped up in each of us by turn, but we also both realized that although we may be sexually attracted to other people (as many human beings are, men and woman, single or not) we have an emotional bond with one another that is stronger than that.

So we have agreed that if the woman understands our boundaries and that we all agree to communicate openly and be real with one another then there really isn't an issue. So Ideally the woman would be interested in both of us, she would also be an open communicator as well.

As far as bringing the masculine into our relationship, I'm not so certain I would enjoy that. But that may also be possible in the right circumstances, if I knew him well enough, trusted him and created an open line of communication between the three of us. 

I am not advocating this for anyone else, nor would I try to tell anyone what to think or do, I am just stating that me personally, I would enjoy sharing a night with my husband and another woman and see it as a strengthener and not a weakness to our relationship.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

doodlebug said:


> Well, I must say I'm from the perspective of it being ok, in certain circumstances.
> 
> I understand that my opinion may not be popular, but hey live and let live.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your point of view.
Please permit me to ask you just a couple questions. ( hope you're not shy, I'm not here to judge you! )

Are both of you married, if so, how long?

You referred to it ( the threesome )being ok under certain circumstances. Can you elaborate?

What would make it ok in circumstance X as opposed to circumstance Y ?

Thank you for your response!


----------



## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My question to those inclined to threesomes and the swinging lifestyle is this.
> 
> What do you think is behind this urge to have a third or more parties involved in sexual activity with yourselves?
> 
> ...


Me an my wife had been engaging in a threesome for the past 2 years. Initially my wife had propose me that i m allowed to have sex with a man (due to the fact i m bisexual) to satisfy my sexual urges that she can't fulfilled. You can called me a swinger if you like

So we search through the craigslist but due to the fear of STDs from a random person, we nearly scrapped the idea until my wife recommend me to go to a "gay" brothel and i go for it. After doing it for 2 months when both of us told our feeling to this "arrangement" and i actually suggested a threesome at a regular brothel. She was reluctant at first (just like i was reluctant at going to a "gay" brothel) but later she agreed and start going to brothels together and have regular threesomes (with a male or a female prostitute) every fortnight. And yes we had set a few rules on not hiring the same prostitute for at least 6 months and etc.

The reason we had chosen to use brothels rather than internet hook-up are 

-STD risk free since even clients like us had to provide a medical report that we are clean before we can have any service while hook-ups from the internet had STD hazards
-no string attached sex except with money while internet hook-ups had constant contact and might evolved emotionally 
-both of the parties such as prostitute/me and my wife knows that it is only purely fun and sex only while the internet hook-ups can be quite immature and even stir some trouble
-prostitutes are quite experience with clients who are couples like us same as "some" hook-ups but who knows
-risk of having affairs or cheating while having threesomes becomes non-existent since the prostitute is only "providing" a "service" rather than intimacy as internet hookups can promote intimacy and cheating if one of them are starting to attract to the other party
-oh last thing is that prostitutes profession are as legal as accountants, interestingly the difference is that prostitutes are making more than accountants (yeah prostitutes makes at least 150k per year AUD) as well as brothels (makes biliions of revenue a year and pays millions of taxes, it makes me wonder why people ban prostitution and brothels when they can actually provide lots of tax to the govt). Since it is legal we won't be arrested just like in some places for using a prostitute.

but here are the cons to this despite the advantages

-costly, it is really expensive to keep up the lifestyle but since me and my spouse are having good duo-income and are childless we can afford this at ease and its completely worth the cons
-disrespectful madame and prostitutes but we manage to weed them out within a year of our "lifestyle" so no problems
-scammy brothels that charges you extra when you were close to achieve orgasm as stated above we weed them out within a year.

So Caribbean Man does that answer all my questions? And yeah my lifestyle choice is really an alternative to real swinging with couples and singles........

p.s and lastly our sex life actually increases exponentially after starting this "lifestyle" and we had ever kinky sex afterwards


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

on a side note, even though we had a "alternative lifestyle" choices, not everyone can handle this kind of a situation so don't try this at home (unless suitable conditions otherwise)


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

How many years have you guys been married?

Edit..............
^^^^^^^
I like your " Interesting disclaimer" in post #195


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> #1] I started this thread, BECAUSE I'm interested in finding out about it. I have clearly stated my position several times, but that doesn't mean other people are not welcome to express their opinion, for or against.
> That is the purpose of the thread, as I EXPRESSLY stated in the original post.
> 
> #2] Yes, I'm wrong. That's why I started this thread in the first place,to find out THE FACTS. Some say this, others say that.
> ...


Some interesting info from a wife-sharing forum:

_
I know the question I am about to ask is taboo, how old are HW's usually? I know definitely married with a healthy sexual relationship. Just wanting an average.

_________________


We are probably unusual - been married for nearly 40 years, been swingers (mainly in MFMs), for nearly as long and enjoying it and each other more than ever -she late 50s/he just 60. She prefers guys more or less our own age and find them quite easily.


I'm early 50s. I've been sexually liberal for 30 of those years, since my time in Europe and the affair I had there. I had a poly relationship in my 30s with my second husband's knowledge and approval. But, I've been a Hotwife, with four lovers for two years. My husband has read a lot of forums and notes that Hotwifes are all ages, but he thinks most are over 30.


I am 41, my HW is 39 - married for 6 years, been together 10 years. Been doing this for a little over a year.


I'm 52, the wife is 39. We've been 'open' since the beginning, 20 years ago, so when we first had MFF three-ways, I was 35 and she was 21. Her first male lovers were when she was about 30, I guess, but she wasn't into the concept of being a hotwife. She was basically cheating on me with my permission.

I've always been wanting it, but she's only recently embraced this lifestyle as something she wants for herself and not just something I want for her. Finding the perfect FB was the last straw. She's sold, now. Finally.



I am 50, hotwife 46. started with her cheating, untiL I found out, been "cheating" with my full permission since the following night, last 17 years she has really become a hot wife, with several regular lovers, and also many one night ****s
she just cant get enough, her one longterm lover(17) years has turned her into a real ****.
she has a thing about him that she will do anything he wants, and who he wants .


She is 41, me 56. We had our first 3 way with a friend we brought home from our bar about a year into our relationship, and have NEVER had a vanilla sex life.


I'm 51 my wife 42. The first time she played she was 35. But she really got serious about it last year.



I'm 46, she's 36

_________________

I'm 51 - He is 51 been doing this for 20 plus years with a few of breaks three to have children, one when we fell out and separated for a short while. The last ten years has been full on and fantastic.

_It seems most started in their late thirties or early forties. I wonder whether it is to do with the need to introduce competition to keep the spark alive, or maybe something more biological, with 'breeding' age coming to an end?

You also notice that all are positive and have done this long-term, although of course the group is self-selecting, it does disprove the 'it never works' assertion.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

And to put it simply IN MY OPINION these people are sexual deviants. The men are weak and pus_sy whipped and the women are nothing less than disloyal trollops, unfit to be in a loving marriage. There are no biological or evolutionary reasons for this behaviour, it's simply weak people trying to justify deviant behaviour.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> And to put it simply IN MY OPINION these people are sexual deviants. The men are weak and pus_sy whipped and the women are nothing less than disloyal trollops, unfit to be in a loving marriage. *There are no biological or evolutionary reasons for this behaviour, it's simply weak people trying to justify deviant behaviour.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Ok,
> I am just trying to be the " devil's advocate " here.
> But wasn't stuff like masturbation, anal sex , and homosexuality once considered " deviant sexual behaviour" by most " so called "academics at one time?


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

Good question! And the answer is yes, however these acts do not compromise the loyalty of the participants nor do they forsake one's duty to family. Marriage and married sex are expressions of love and devotion to each other. Once a third or fourth or more parties is included into the marriage the whole concept of love, devotion, loyalty and duty to family go right out the window.

Let me ask this - can you honestly trust someone that will share the most intimate of human acts with someone else outside of their marriage? Me, I could not.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> And to put it simply IN MY OPINION these people are sexual deviants. The men are weak and pus_sy whipped and the women are nothing less than disloyal trollops, unfit to be in a loving marriage. There are no biological or evolutionary reasons for this behaviour, it's simply weak people trying to justify deviant behaviour.


Well, you know the saying 'opinions are like a$$holes, everyboy has got one.'


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> How many years have you guys been married?
> 
> Edit..............
> ^^^^^^^
> I like your " Interesting disclaimer" in post #195


hey OP! and yeah we had been "married" for 4 years and we still enjoy this "alternative lifestyle"

personally i really wonder how many couples will take our approach to swinging by paying "professionals" instead of hook-ups

and yeah about that "disclaimer" i m actually this serious :lol: mostly its hard to afford the lifestyle especially if you go to the brothel twice per month. And also emotional and jealousy factors as well

btw what do you think about it? (need some of your perspective on this):scratchhead:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> Good question! And the answer is yes, however these acts do not compromise the loyalty of the participants nor do they forsake one's duty to family. Marriage and married sex are expressions of love and devotion to each other. Once a third or fourth or more parties is included into the marriage the whole concept of love, devotion, loyalty and duty to family go right out the window.
> 
> *Let me ask this - can you honestly trust someone that will share the most intimate of human acts with someone else outside of their marriage? Me, I could not.*


You and I think like this Soldier, but those involved in sharing their spouses have a different argument. And their argument is a logical one. The logical basis, or the axiom is the same as ours.

They are saying that its up to the TWO PEOPLE in a marriage to set their boundaries.
I am quite sure you will agree to that.
So if TWO PEOPLE in a marriage decide to extend that boundary to include other people, then that does not constitute breaking any vows.
Understand?

So what they are saying is that they set the boundaries BEFORE they get involved with a third or fourth party, and abide strictly by the rules. 
They are saying once the rules are broken, then trouble comes in. They are saying it has helped them gain a higher level of trust.


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> And to put it simply IN MY OPINION these people are sexual deviants. The men are weak and pus_sy whipped and the women are nothing less than disloyal trollops, unfit to be in a loving marriage. There are no biological or evolutionary reasons for this behaviour, it's simply weak people trying to justify deviant behaviour.


please don't run down this thread i was banned because of our last encounter :lol:

p.s omg sexual deviants!? well some people just needs a time-machine i m afraid :smthumbup:


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Three-ways could never be OK for me because I always have an emotional connection with the person with whom I am having sex. There's no way NOT to. A three-way involving another man would be unacceptable. I have enough trouble getting past my wife's very active sexual past before we met, and that was only involving normal, hetero sex. NO WAY I could actually witness her "cheating on me" in front of me. I would either become homicidal, or a mental case.

If the third person was a woman there is no way I could perform, or live with myself after,knowing that the woman I love is watching me with another woman. It would tear me apart


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

old_soldier said:


> Good question! And the answer is yes, however these acts do not compromise the loyalty of the participants nor do they forsake one's duty to family. Marriage and married sex are expressions of love and devotion to each other. Once a third or fourth or more parties is included into the marriage the whole concept of love, devotion, loyalty and duty to family go right out the window.
> 
> Let me ask this - can you honestly trust someone that will share the most intimate of human acts with someone else outside of their marriage? Me, I could not.


I do not believe that threesomes/sharing compromise anything. They can but so can a lot of things nonsexual related. My duty to my wife and family is in no way affected by any alternative sexual activities. My devotion to my wife and my children is not affected if i engage in a threesome or swap with my wife. I will agree that the notion of monogomy and traditional "christian" marriage is indeed out the window with this activity. Finally, yes, i can trust my wife. Wholly and without fail.



Terry_CO said:


> Three-ways could never be OK for me because I always have an emotional connection with the person with whom I am having sex. There's no way NOT to. A three-way involving another man would be unacceptable. I have enough trouble getting past my wife's very active sexual past before we met, and that was only involving normal, hetero sex. NO WAY I could actually witness her "cheating on me" in front of me. I would either become homicidal, or a mental case.
> 
> If the third person was a woman there is no way I could perform, or live with myself after,knowing that the woman I love is watching me with another woman. It would tear me apart


This is exactly why threesomes, etc do not work for most people. There is nothing wrong with your feelings or perspective. Your argumnets against are perfect for your relationship-and that is all that matters. However, some people can have sex without emotional investment or connection. My wife and i have sex (typical), sometimes we "fu?k", and sometimes we make love. We have discussed this at length and both agree that there is no emotional connection when we do the second. It is more basic and that is what we are doing when we have engaged in alternative play.
I enjoy reading this thread and i believe everyones opinions are perfectly valid but why do so many people need validation of their own opinions by having everyone agree with them? Relationships are as diverse and unique as the people in them. You can try and make them the same all you want but you will never get that square peg in a round hole.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> And to put it simply IN MY OPINION these people are sexual deviants. The men are weak and pus_sy whipped and the women are nothing less than disloyal trollops, unfit to be in a loving marriage. There are no biological or evolutionary reasons for this behaviour, it's simply weak people trying to justify deviant behaviour.


:yay:

thank you. couldn't have said it better myself.


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> Three-ways could never be OK for me because I always have an emotional connection with the person with whom I am having sex. There's no way NOT to. A three-way involving another man would be unacceptable. I have enough trouble getting past my wife's very active sexual past before we met, and that was only involving normal, hetero sex. NO WAY I could actually witness her "cheating on me" in front of me. I would either become homicidal, or a mental case.
> 
> If the third person was a woman there is no way I could perform, or live with myself after,knowing that the woman I love is watching me with another woman. It would tear me apart


there are people who can actually separate emotional connection withe the person having sex with and how unacceptable is a three-way involving with another man its just absurd.......... (going for a so called "moral" high ground?)

how can you compare to homicidal and a mental case to swinging, that is just the worse insult to the "lifestyle"


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Your quest to understand this kink is admirable CM, but the truth is we will never understand kinks that we don't have. Someone could explain the delights of scrotal inflation (Google it if you're alone) until the cows come home but I will never be able to understand it. 

That being said only the insecure and intolerant insult others who have kinks that involve consenting adults.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I am beginning to understand it a little Johnny.
There are lots of kinks and fetishes that I have heard of from other people and actually understand them even though they are not mine.

I just like to think of human beings as fascinating!

But this sort of practice is not new. This has been around thousands of years. I think it was more associated with the ruling class in different societies.
It's quite interesting to see how different people view sex.
Everybody thinks their view is right , everybody justifies their position.
What is important, I feel, is that people try not to fool themselves. Be honest with yourself and your partner.
IMO, very few people could handle this type of sexual activity in marriage.
It is akin to playing Russian roulette, the stakes are high, and so too the thrill. Chances are you could survive and enjoy it, chances are that it will literally blow your relationship apart.

I guess it all comes down to choice.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> I am beginning to understand it a little Johnny.
> There are lots of kinks and fetishes that I have heard of from other people and actually understand them even though they are not mine.
> 
> I just like to think of human beings as fascinating!


I came across this and thought you might find it interesting CM. Although I wouldn't describe myself as a cuckold, I do share some of the kinks described.

Cuckoldress and cuckold survey results


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I came across this and thought you might find it interesting CM. Although I wouldn't describe myself as a cuckold, I do share some of the kinks described.
> 
> Cuckoldress and cuckold survey results



Thanks Johnny.
My schedule's a bit tight today.
But,
I will have a look at it and i promise you that i will make a comment on it later!


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned (my opinion) this article is a crock of horse puckies. Now I know by today's standards some women like to wear the slvt lable like some sort of merit badge, and some men actually get off on their wife being with other people, however no matter how you wear it, there is no merit with infidelity. A slvt is a tainted woman and a cuckold is a weak, spinless jellyfish with no backbone. There is no alpha involved. Alpha males, do not under any circumstance shrare their women, and women who trully love their man do not seek out the sexual attention of other people, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. There is no validation or justification for it....


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> As far as I'm concerned (my opinion) this article is a crock of horse puckies. Now I know by today's standards some women like to wear the slvt lable like some sort of merit badge, and some men actually get off on their wife being with other people, however no matter how you wear it, there is no merit with infidelity. A slvt is a tainted woman and a cuckold is a weak, spinless jellyfish with no backbone. There is no alpha involved. Alpha males, do not under any circumstance shrare their women, and women who trully love their man do not seek out the sexual attention of other people, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. There is no validation or justification for it....


Well, some say no alpha's woman would be unfaithful.


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

old_soldier said:


> As far as I'm concerned (my opinion) this article is a crock of horse puckies. Now I know by today's standards some women like to wear the slvt lable like some sort of merit badge, and some men actually get off on their wife being with other people, however no matter how you wear it, there is no merit with infidelity. A slvt is a tainted woman and a cuckold is a weak, spinless jellyfish with no backbone. There is no alpha involved. Alpha males, do not under any circumstance shrare their women, and women who trully love their man do not seek out the sexual attention of other people, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. There is no validation or justification for it....


So, just so i have this straight-the above is all just your opinion? While i am certainly not a cuckold and do not necessarily disagree with your position per se, i find it interesting that the respondents in the survey (both the women and men) considered the men to primarily be "alpha" in their everyday lives. I guess one could certainly argue that alpha should be alpha 100% of the time to be truly "alpha" However, i also didn't see anything anywhere which would preclude a male from being categorized as alpha if he ever let anyone else have sex with his wife. Does a wife of a quadrapalegic(sp?) not love her husband if she seeks a sexual gratification elsewhere? Is that a justification? How about the wife of a man with massive prostate/erection issues? Can she enjoy sex with another man (with the blessing of her husband) once in a while while still love her husband? In my opinion, not everything is black and white.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

JTL said:


> So, just so i have this straight-the above is all just your opinion? While i am certainly not a cuckold and do not necessarily disagree with your position per se, i find it interesting that the respondents in the survey (both the women and men) considered the men to primarily be "alpha" in their everyday lives. I guess one could certainly argue that alpha should be alpha 100% of the time to be truly "alpha" However, i also didn't see anything anywhere which would preclude a male from being categorized as alpha if he ever let anyone else have sex with his wife. Does a wife of a quadrapalegic(sp?) not love her husband if she seeks a sexual gratification elsewhere? Is that a justification? How about the wife of a man with massive prostate/erection issues? Can she enjoy sex with another man (with the blessing of her husband) once in a while while still love her husband? In my opinion, not everything is black and white.


And therein lies the problem, what ever happened to the vows "forsaking all others, having only unto you, for richer, for poorer, for better or worse, IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH, until death us dopart." And yes life is black and white; right or wrong. Infidelity is wrong, no ifs, ands, buts or maybes. Call me narrow minded if you will, but to me, that's the way it is. By the way there are ways to enjoy sex without penile penetration of the vagina. IMHO.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I came across this and thought you might find it interesting CM. Although I wouldn't describe myself as a cuckold, I do share some of the kinks described.
> 
> Cuckoldress and cuckold survey results



Ok,Johnny,
I have read the website and looked at the survey results.
I find it interesting.

Of particular interest to me on the survey, was page #10.

I say its interesting because the survey found that a whooping 50% of the respondents felt that they were inferior in some way to their wives.
But then, I cannot logically conclude anything from that because the sample size is small and the converse also hold. That is , 50% _did not_ see themselves as inferior to their wives.
It's surprising to me nevertheless.

Also another interesting little factoid was the penis size preferences of the cuckoldress. I am wondering is there is a connection to that and the 50% inferiority statistic I raised before.

Last but not least was the largest participants age group
[ 40 - 49 ]and the socio -economic & educational backgrounds of the respondents. The overwhelming majority were white collar professionals, with pretty normal sex lives with their spouses.

The link does provide a very interesting insight into the hows and whys.


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## ladynsniffer (Oct 19, 2012)

My wife and I live this lifestyle (and have for many years).

It is clear (especially reading through the posts in this thread) that this lifestyle is not for everyone. In fact, the promise of fidelity between a man and woman is the best course for almost all marriages. I suspect most couples enjoy exclusive sex with their partner. Life is plenty stressful, especially with kids involved, and addng jealousy and envy to the mix can be, in some cases, deadly.

But, we are not all the same (and if we were it would be a boring world). Just look at all the threads on this one message board. Infidelity happens. Mismatched sex drives, loss of interest in sex, porn addiction, drug or alcohol addiction, and plain old high divorce rates (for one reason or another) are all roadblocks to a successful marriage.

Crossing from fantasy to reality is dangerous. Since I am in this lifestyle, I am naturally exposed to other couples who try it out. Most of the time, the reality is so emotionally powerful, the marriage breaks up. I've heard plenty of stories of the husband wanting a sex party and watching his wife have sex with another man, only to come away from the experience feeling inadequate and jealous.

However, some couples can live this lifestyle very successfully. We do. 

Marcus


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ladynsniffer said:


> *Crossing from fantasy to reality is dangerous. Since I am in this lifestyle, I am naturally exposed to other couples who try it out. Most of the time, the reality is so emotionally powerful, the marriage breaks up. I've heard plenty of stories of the husband wanting a sex party and watching his wife have sex with another man, only to come away from the experience feeling inadequate and jealous.*
> 
> However, some couples can live this lifestyle very successfully. We do.
> 
> Marcus


Appreciate your candid opinion and expression. I also appreciate that you were honest enough to include words of caution in your post.:smthumbup:

But from your experience, why do you think a man will agree with his wife to cross over into this type of fantasy and then allow himself to feel insecure AFTER she has done the act?
[ Which they BOTH agreed to do?]
Is it that he had tricked himself ?
What do you think made the outcome of your experience different to theirs?
Emotional maturity, self confidence and confidence in your partner?

Hope you don't mind me asking!


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## ladynsniffer (Oct 19, 2012)

Thank you very much for asking. I am here mostly because I am fascinated by male/female relationship in general and their sexuality in particular.



Caribbean Man said:


> But from your experience, why do you think a man will agree with his wife to cross over into this type of fantasy and then allow himself to feel insecure AFTER she has done the act?
> [ Which they BOTH agreed to do?]
> Is it that he had tricked himself ?


There are plenty of "cuckold" message boards that describe this problem over and over. I am friends with a woman who had this happen to her. I see her most everyday. Over time, we became close enough friends, that she confided in me about the breakup of her marriage (as I confided to her about me and my wife).

Her husband fantasized about her having sex with another man. This became an almost obsession. Finally, she agreed. As it turns out, she found a guy who agreed to have sex with her in front of her husband. She hit the jackpot (we live in Vegas, afterall - lol) for a night of great sex with her new lover. His penis was larger, thicker, great stamina, and brought her to many orgasms. She told me her husband never recovered from the experience. He knew he could never compete. I am sure there were other issues. The result was they divorced.

Our situation is very different. How we found each other, to this day, is amazing to us. My wife and I have extremely high sex drives. We tried "vanilla" marriages and they failed pretty quick. She is a "cheater" (some great stories by the way) and she stayed single for a number of years because she knew she could not be faithful. I am the opposite. I am very faithful and quite devoted. But, I cannot satisfy a woman sexually (again some great stories here). When we met, I told her about the "cuckold" lifestyle. We tried it and it worked. We both wanted a "life" partner. Everything about our relationship outside the bedroom was working perfectly. Inside the bedroom we have done some pretty amazing things with her lover. Its all good.

Normally, I hang out at message boards devoted to this lifestyle. But, when I discovered this message board, I joined because I felt I could be at the other end of the spectrum of sex in marriage. Sort of a counterweight. I know (as in religion) there is a great need by people to persuade others to live like they do. It validates their lifestyle. But, the variety of lifestyle is both fascinating and interesting.

Marcus


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok,Johnny,
> I have read the website and looked at the survey results.
> I find it interesting.
> 
> ...


This is a small, self-selecting sample that is in no way scientific, but interesting nonetheless. I am not surprised by the number who feel inferior to their spouses when you consider the kink. 

As for the penis size, from what I have read around this subject, it tends to be the obsession of the male partner, not the female.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Enough has already been expounded on three-ways and group sex. IMHO, it is really nothingmore than a total "lose/lose" situation for what was once a very loving, trusting couple!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ladynsniffer said:


> Normally, I hang out at message boards devoted to this lifestyle. But, when I discovered this message board, I joined because I felt I could be at the other end of the spectrum of sex in marriage. Sort of a counterweight. I know (as in religion) there is a great need by people to persuade others to live like they do. It validates their lifestyle. But, the variety of lifestyle is both fascinating and interesting.
> 
> Marcus



Just one more question ladysniffer,
If you don't mind.

What's your age bracket?

30- 39

40 - 49

50 and over.

Thank you in advance!


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## TriedHarder (Nov 24, 2012)

My wife was unfaithful to me and I tried to save my marriage and ended up in a ****/hotwife relationship as a result. It has had both ups and downs and although I have tried to shift back into a traditional monogamous marriage she has resisted.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

TriedHarder said:


> My wife was unfaithful to me and I tried to save my marriage and ended up in a ****/hotwife relationship as a result. It has had both ups and downs and although I have tried to shift back into a traditional monogamous marriage she has resisted.


An open marriage has to be a positive step for both of you. It is never going to work as remedy for infidelity. You should have full veto power or it is just an excuse for her to cheat.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

ladynsniffer said:


> My wife and I live this lifestyle (and have for many years).
> 
> It is clear (especially reading through the posts in this thread) that this lifestyle is not for everyone. In fact, the promise of fidelity between a man and woman is the best course for almost all marriages. I suspect most couples enjoy exclusive sex with their partner. Life is plenty stressful, especially with kids involved, and addng jealousy and envy to the mix can be, in some cases, deadly.
> 
> ...


I had the fantasy, wife and I talked about it. Joined some boards but in the end she wouldn't be able to handle it and I would probably have to kill all the guys that slept with her.

So, it stays a fantasy. And the people on the boards are SOOOOOOO helpful. They will straight up tell you if the lifestyle is for you or not. So many ignore their advice and still go through with it only to destroy their marriages.

BTW, the people on swinger boards hate cheaters, this board is like a "G" rated movie compared to those people once they go after a cheater.

I don't frequent those boards anymore but did make 2 or 3 friends on there who gave alot of good advice on whether swinging was for us or not.

BTW, we thought about as a way to spice up our sex life. Probably would have been the worst mistake in our life if we had gone through with it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> *I don't frequent those boards anymore but did make 2 or 3 friends on there who gave alot of good advice on whether swinging was for us or not.*
> 
> BTW, we thought about as a way to spice up our sex life. Probably would have been the worst mistake in our life if we had gone through with it.


Can you share some of the " advice " given to you guys that led you and your wife to abandon the idea of moving it from fantasy into reality?

I know for sure that there are posters here who contemplate the lifestyle because they have the fantasy. Their problem is similar to yours . 
They are unsure.
Hence my reason for asking the question.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I wish I could find the posting on experience project of the woman whose husband pushed her into the hotwife lifestyle. She basically fell in love with the man her husband selected for her and left her husband. She is now one of the biggest anti-wifesharing voices out there now.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Can you share some of the " advice " given to you guys that led you and your wife to abandon the idea of moving it from fantasy into reality?
> 
> I know for sure that there are posters here who contemplate the lifestyle because they have the fantasy. Their problem is similar to yours .
> They are unsure.
> Hence my reason for asking the question.


Don't do it, my wife and I were in no way prepared for that lifestyle. With my affair and our less than frequent sex issues, SWINGING WAS NOT going to make us have more sex with one another.

In other words, it was not going to spark our sex life, it was only going to create even more problems than we already had at the time.

Our problem was communication, she thought I was fine with the once a month or once very other month because I never said anything or complained to her directly.

Once I told her that I needed more sex, she told me to jerk myself off, I told her I was prepared to divorce her if that's the case. We compromised at sex at least once a week. Works for me right now. I can still masturbate to porn if she's unwilling to add more than once a week (it does happen from time to time) and we're good with that arrangement right now.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> Don't do it, my wife and I were in no way prepared for that lifestyle. With my affair and our less than frequent sex issues, SWINGING WAS NOT going to make us have more sex with one another.
> 
> In other words, it was not going to spark our sex life, it was only going to create even more problems than we already had at the time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing!
Hope your sex life improves. 
I guess it would take some serious work between both of you.
I also hope you all are able to resolve the present problems and those of the past.


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## ladynsniffer (Oct 19, 2012)

sandc said:


> I wish I could find the posting on experience project of the woman whose husband pushed her into the hotwife lifestyle. She basically fell in love with the man her husband selected for her and left her husband. She is now one of the biggest anti-wifesharing voices out there now.


This is of the big risks to an open (swinging, cuckolding) marriage. I personally know a couple that has had this happen, and I've read about others. It seems only natural. Not a lot of virgins getting married anymore. People have experience dumping sex partners. These breakups are painful but we do them as we search for a mate. Why would it be surprising that a woman could find a thrilling sex partner who offers her a better deal than her husband? This outcome, however, could have just as likely happened through infidelity (in secret) by a spouse. Or, the breakup could result from something that has nothing to do with sex (violence, additiction, etc).

Fidelity is the right choice for most folks. Life is simpler and far less drama. The focus should be on intimacy shared by the couple. If sex was great in the beginning, it can be made great over and over again. There are problems to overcome, to be sure. As we age, priorities (and hormones) change. To answer an earlier question to me, I am 61. My sex drive is the same as when I was twenty. But, hahaha, my knees hurt too much when I kneel down to kiss my wife's ass.

My wife and I live a "cuckold" or "hotwife" lifestyle and have lived it for many years. Plenty of sex happening around here. We've had some drama from time to time, but for the most part, it has been thrilling and works for us.

Marcus


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

old_soldier said:


> And therein lies the problem, what ever happened to the vows "forsaking all others, having only unto you, for richer, for poorer, for better or worse, IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH, until death us dopart." And yes life is black and white; right or wrong. Infidelity is wrong, no ifs, ands, buts or maybes. Call me narrow minded if you will, but to me, that's the way it is. By the way there are ways to enjoy sex without penile penetration of the vagina. IMHO.


I agree with your comments at the end of the post-there are many ways to enjoy sex. I would hate to be without certain ones though-like penetration. Just because one can sacrifice their own well being to follow a vow certainly doesn't mean they should. I respect your opinion and position but you must understand it is simply and stricktly borne out of religion. I did not take the same vows you did, and even if i did, i may interperet them differently. Infidelity is wrong when it causes hurt. It is wrong when it happens through deception. It is indeed wrong for the majority of the population-but not all. I don't think you are any more narrow minded than most people. Most of us have our own beliefs and biases and will not be swayed. I just think we should never try to sway others.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

JTL you are 100% correct. This kind of behavior is not for everybody. To me marital sex is an act shared by two people who truly love and respect each other. To me, to defile that is a direct affront to the sanctity of the institution of marriage, but please understand, this is my opinion. It is not up to me to tell anyone what they should believe, I am not in the business of trying to change people's minds. If they want to live a life that denegrates their marriage, that's their conscience that they have to deal with. On the same token however, they should not be bestowing how great and wonderful infidelity is, because it is not.

BTW just so we are on the same page, infidelity is any sexual act between any married person and a person who is not married to the sex partner. Infidelity need not necessariy be cheating, although cheating is defitely infidelity. Swinging, threesomes, etc is called "negotiated infidelity".


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## firedog1 (Sep 17, 2012)

My wife and I had discussed it many times but, never did it. Now that she has had an EA with a man 30 years younger than her, I am glad we didn't. I never dreamed she would fall for someone else as HARD as she fell for that guy. The only reason we didn't was because the situation never presented itself at the right time.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> I have been reading a few threads recently about threesomes and foursomes and the negative effect they have had on some marriages and long term relationships.
> 
> I have also seen that there are posters who say that it has actually enriched their marriages.
> 
> ...


I've only read the OP, but I am VERY against bringing other people into the marriage bed. I believe marriage, and especially sex within marriage, is sacred. Even for those who don't believe in God, I believe that some very strong and vitally important emotional, cognitive and physical connections take place when a man and woman make love. I believe these connections are important, so much so that troubled marriages can improve so long as mutually satisfying sex continues. 

Bringing anyone else into it, whether through threesomes, orgies, porn...imo, taints and confuses those connections and makes more problems than they supposedly fix.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I've only read the OP, but I am VERY against bringing other people into the marriage bed. I believe marriage, and especially sex within marriage, is sacred. Even for those who don't believe in God, I believe that some very strong and vitally important emotional, cognitive and physical connections take place when a man and woman make love. I believe these connections are important, so much so that troubled marriages can improve so long as mutually satisfying sex continues.
> 
> Bringing anyone else into it, whether through threesomes, orgies, porn...imo, taints and confuses those connections and makes more problems than they supposedly fix.


Created,
Nice to see you on this thread.
I also share your views on marital sex.
But I really think you should take some time and read this thread.
There are some very interesting perspectives, and agruments.
I know that you are a writer [?] so that it should be interesting.
Whenever you have some time, maybe both of you can have a read .


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## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

sandc said:


> I wish I could find the posting on experience project of the woman whose husband pushed her into the hotwife lifestyle. She basically fell in love with the man her husband selected for her and left her husband. She is now one of the biggest anti-wifesharing voices out there now.


well there would be a story like this someday sandc not many couples can withstand the power of jealousy and insecurities from swinging or other forms of open relationships/marriage



ladynsniffer said:


> Fidelity is the right choice for most folks. Life is simpler and far less drama. The focus should be on intimacy shared by the couple. If sex was great in the beginning, it can be made great over and over again. There are problems to overcome, to be sure. As we age, priorities (and hormones) change. To answer an earlier question to me, I am 61. My sex drive is the same as when I was twenty. But, hahaha, my knees hurt too much when I kneel down to kiss my wife's ass.
> 
> My wife and I live a "cuckold" or "hotwife" lifestyle and have lived it for many years. Plenty of sex happening around here. We've had some drama from time to time, but for the most part, it has been thrilling and works for us.
> 
> Marcus


how long have you been having this lifestyle? it seems that you are having a poly-amorous relationship rather than cuckold lifestyle. Congrats that you manages to maintain this arrangement (not many people can achieve that level) 



Created2Write said:


> I've only read the OP, but I am VERY against bringing other people into the marriage bed. I believe marriage, and especially sex within marriage, is sacred. Even for those who don't believe in God, I believe that some very strong and vitally important emotional, cognitive and physical connections take place when a man and woman make love. I believe these connections are important, so much so that troubled marriages can improve so long as mutually satisfying sex continues.
> 
> Bringing anyone else into it, whether through threesomes, orgies, porn...imo, taints and confuses those connections and makes more problems than they supposedly fix.


Ok skip the "god" argument i think your points are valid even for a swinger like i do, threesomes (and etc) is a mutual choice and consensus between each spouse to have their sexual adventure with other fellow human beings. So long both sides agree to do it and prepared really well i don't think that would make more problems, sex is meant to be fun and swinging makes sex like a recreational sport.

btw read the rest of the thread before you made (somewhat) judgmental conclusions


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## Resikkt (Jul 22, 2012)

sandc said:


> I wish I could find the posting on experience project of the woman whose husband pushed her into the hotwife lifestyle. She basically fell in love with the man her husband selected for her and left her husband. She is now one of the biggest anti-wifesharing voices out there now.


The woman's name on experience project is Ladyblue848.
She has strong opinions on not have sex with any other than your spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Resikkt said:


> The woman's name on experience project is Ladyblue848.
> She has strong opinions on not have sex with any other than your spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bingo! That's her.

And THIS is the story that she wrote that, at least for me, has always served as a cautionary tale against bringing third parties into the bedroom. I may fantasize, but I will NEVER, EVER do this. Here is why:

Watch What You Wish For : I Can't Stop Thinking About My Wife Having Sex With Others Story & Experience

You may have to join to read the story, not sure.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Bingo! That's her.
> 
> And THIS is the story that she wrote that, at least for me, has always served as a cautionary tale against bringing third parties into the bedroom. I may fantasize, but I will NEVER, EVER do this. Here is why:
> 
> ...


Well sandsc,
"...You live and you learn..."


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

sandc said:


> Bingo! That's her.
> 
> And THIS is the story that she wrote that, at least for me, has always served as a cautionary tale against bringing third parties into the bedroom. I may fantasize, but I will NEVER, EVER do this. Here is why:
> 
> ...


This is another instance of a couple trying to use threesomes to try and fix marital problems. It is never going to work.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Absolutely. Sometimes you learn from the mistakes of others, sometimes it takes your own mistakes to teach you a lesson. Sometimes it's just too late.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

Remember what I wrote a few pages ago about how manipulative these wife shareers and swingers can be? Read some of the comments that come after the article, how the sharers and the ****ty "hotwives" try to manipulate and twist her words to suit their own agenda. They know what they do is wrong, but will do and say whatever it takes to justify their lack of loyalty to each other.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> Remember what I wrote a few pages ago about how manipulative these wife shareers and swingers can be? Read some of the comments that come after the article, how the sharers and the ****ty "hotwives" try to manipulate and twist her words to suit their own agenda. They know what they do is wrong, but will do and say whatever it takes to justify their lack of loyalty to each other.


The comments are interesting and amusing. They show an overly optimistic view of their vulnerability to a divorce. The author of the piece is very articulate about the psychology behind swinging and wife sharing. Her contribution fell on some deaf ears though. Clearly her piece struck a nerve and made some defensive and the classic "it won't happen to me" defense kicked in.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> The comments are interesting and amusing. They show an overly optimistic view of their vulnerability to a divorce. The author of the piece is very articulate about the psychology behind swinging and wife sharing. Her contribution fell on some deaf ears though. Clearly her piece struck a nerve and made some defensive and the classic "it won't happen to me" defense kicked in.


You have to understand that she was posting in a forum entitled "I want to know why my husband wants to share me with other men" Most of the members there are men who want to share their wives. Then there is a smaller number of women who truly want to know why their husbands feel that way. So, that forum really is kind of a battleground of sorts. Each side trying to win over converts.

They may not like what she had to say, but they cannot argue the outcome in her situation nor the wisdom she puts out there. Note that she never tells them not to do it but to be careful what they wish for.

I will always advise against it. I can understand it, but I cannot condone it.

And frankly, even the fantasy is holding MUCH less of an appeal for me these days.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> They may not like what she had to say, but they cannot argue the outcome in her situation nor the wisdom she puts out there.
> 
> ** *Note that she never tells them not to do it but to be careful what they wish for.***
> 
> ...


Sandc,
I must say I really appreciate your unbiased comments on the subject matter throughout this entire thread.
I KNOW that you speak from experience.
Sometimes it is difficult to have people of opposing views on any given matter debate the reasons for their biases without being supercilious.

I really wanted to hear the _whys_of those who are/ were involved in the lifestyle, but I am glad thet those who came forward not only gave us the whys, but also the precaution.
To some people this lifestyle may seem attractive, but clearly it is fraught with dangerous pitfalls. 
But the same can also be said of marriage.
Something I've learnt in life is that everybody justifies their own actions, whether it is " right or wrong", but very few people are honest enough to accept responsibility when things go awry .
I cannot say that this is a right or wrong lifestyle, because it works for lots of couples, its their kink.
However, I would advise like those other posters before , against the inadvertent approach to the lifestyle, and the high chances of irrecoverable damage to their relationship.

This lifestyle is not for everyone
Myself included.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> This lifestyle is not for everyone
> Myself included.


Is this a lifestyle you were considering?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Is this a lifestyle you were considering?


Nope!

Never fantasized of sharing my wife.
I am very dominant during sex.
Not a turn on for me.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Nope!
> 
> Never fantasized of sharing my wife.
> I am very dominant during sex.
> Not a turn on for me.


Just curious. You've facilitated such a long and lively discussion of the topic I thought maybe...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sandc said:


> Just curious. You've facilitated such a long and lively discussion of the topic I thought maybe...


^^^^^^^^^
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Everyone deserves a fair, non judgemental hearing, and lots of people actually read these posts.
I learned a lot, and 
They too can learn from them!


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^^^^
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Everyone deserves a fair, non judgemental hearing, and lots of people actually read these posts.
> ...


Didn't you start this whole thread (or a similar one) to learn about sexual tourism and why ppl do it?

I think the question was answered long ago:

1) it's fun
2) it's variety
3) it's risk taking behavior
4) it's great to see your partner highly turned on (and from different viewpoint than you can 1 on 1)

Are there risks? Definitely. Is it for everyone? Definitely not. Have I done 3+ situations? Yea a few with fling relationships or just kid/college fun. Has my wife? Quite a few times with casual partners in the past. Have we done it together (dating or married)? Nope, but may in the future... pretty risky for many reasons stated... namely jealousy, health, professional rep, can open pandora box if one partner likes it too much, etc.

The bottom line is that there are HUGE differences between swinger situations, open marriages or hotwife setups, sexual tourism, and just committed couples doing the occasional or one time isolated threesome, though. Big big differences in mindset and risks/benefits.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

the liberal one said:


> Ok skip the "god" argument i think your points are valid even for a swinger like i do, threesomes (and etc) is a mutual choice and consensus between each spouse to have their sexual adventure with other fellow human beings. So long both sides agree to do it and prepared really well i don't think that would make more problems, sex is meant to be fun and swinging makes sex like a recreational sport.
> 
> btw read the rest of the thread before you made (somewhat) judgmental conclusions


I get that this choice is mutual. However, I believe that marriage is meant to be monogamous. I don't believe in bringing anyone into a marriage bed, whether both spouses consent or not. It is, in my opinion, still adultery. 

And I'm not trying to judge anyone. The question was asked about what people think, and I was answering.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

I have read every post currently remaining on this thread. Although they are many, they can be categorized into a handful of different positions.

It is WRONG. Never would I ever.
Fantasies are best left in the head not in the bed.
Did it in my wild youth but no more.
Thinking about doing it but haven't found the right situation yet.
Live it, love it, works for us, but it's not for everyone.

All of these are valid views although some posters seem to take an affront to others having an opinion that doesn't match their own. There seems to be a greater lack of tolerance coming from the "It is WRONG" group than from others but perhaps that is only my bias coming through in reading them.

Just as in any activity I think it comes down to the people that are participating that determines it's success or failure. I would have to agree that most if not all of those on here that are adamantly opposed to including others in their sexual endeavors definitely should not. Especially those that tout their jealousy as a virtue and confess that should they witness someone pounding away at their spouse they are likely to kill them. Let me say, all those that choose this lifestyle send their thanks and gratitude to these folks for having seen fit to refrain. 

Both of my wives (my ex and my current wife), and a few of my significant others in between didn't possess the inclination to pursue such activities. Once I was aware that this would go nowhere with them I abandoned any thought of pursuing it. The surest way to failure in this arena is coercion of one spouse by the other. I can't imagine any joy in that in any case.

It has always intrigued me however, and I have had the good fortune of having a number of relationships, short and long term, in which my partner shared my interest. In none of these relationships did we pursue a full blown swinger lifestyle. We dabbled in visiting sex clubs, or the occasional threesome whenever an interesting opportunity arose. These events occurred less often than we may have liked but none of us were willing to make this activity the central focus of our lives together. We didn't want it to take precedence over our own sex life together, but rather provide an occasional bit of extracurricular sexual adventure. While every occasion did not come off without a hitch, most did, and none caused any significant issues for the relationships. 

The Caribbean Man asked about what motivates couples to pursue these activities, given the inherent risks. For me it's a combination of things. Big picture, it's the prurient appeal of witnessing the sexual act of others up close and personal. It's voyeurism and exhibitionism all at once. This can be accomplished by being the third in a threesome, which I have done as well, so why, include the one you love? First let me say, that I take offense to the comments of those opposed who suggest that those of us who choose to seek out these opportunities don't love our partners, that we are sick and disgusting, or that we are somehow so far outside of what is "right" that we are incapable of such feelings. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have never entered into a relationship of any length with someone I didn't love and care for. I don't do FBs, or marriages of convenience. Even the affairs I regrettably entered into were with people whom I knew and had a love for. Say what you will, about how I don't know what love is, but I know first person what all these relations were about. I've been fortunate enough to experience love with a number of adventurous, intelligent women, and I know very well what it is and I value it highly. 

So why would I risk it for a night of fun? You see I don't see it as being as risky as everyone else here does. I see it as a mitigation of other risks that exist. I've always approached it as an acknowledgement by both parties that we are sexual beings that are attracted to others beside each another. It is an admission that we desire sex with those outside of our union, and it is an agreement to honor these understandings by pursuing together others to satisfy these desires as a couple. *I am not and never have been willing to share my wife or significant other with anyone.* That would be pairing me in partnership with the third party, and assumes an ownership or control over my partner that I neither have nor want. *I have, however, on more than a few occasions shared other individuals or couples with my significant other.* This is similar to the way I don't go out to diner and share my wife with a chocolate sundae. Some may say I am parsing words here but I disagree strongly. This is the difference that makes it a respectful and acceptable act for me and those that have shared these occasions with me. I look at these additional folks that we have invited to participate in our love making to be equal to sex toys. Simply something that provides another facet to our overall sexual repertoire, and something that enhances our experience. Just another tool in the toolbox. I leave it to this other person(s) to worry about their experience. While I want them to enjoy themselves, they really are not my concern. I am there with my partner and that is my focus. As far as seeing them with somebody else, I see it more as watching them enjoy being a human being, appreciative of my understanding of their natural desires and being willing to not only condone such activity but help them pursue it. Their feeling towards my being with another person is similar. There is an incredible feeling of love, appreciation, and acceptance when kissing and looking into your partner's eyes as they are enjoying all the stimuli that such a situation affords. It's all about respect, giving, and caring for your partner. In each of these occasions we left or were left alone at the end of the evening. We would discuss the evenings events, and express our appreciation of the other for understanding and not judging or condemning the other for admitting their natural desire. It is incredibly freeing when you can be honest about wanting to be with others with your partner, which at least in my case lessens the desire to go outside the relationship to cheat. My favorite part of any relationship I've ever been in has been the close bond of partnership. The "us against the world" kind of camaraderie. Taking this team approach into the effort of finding others to play with heightens that experience far beyond an individual quest and makes it far less attractive to pursue alone. When opportunities arise it is with excitement that we share with or partner the new prospect, to see if there is a mutual interest. It has brought me and my partners closer simply by sharing such an outrageous pursuit. I believe it has lessened the potential for the damaging effects of cheating and extramarital affairs by acknowledging and allowing for the natural desire to experience multiple partners in the course of ones life.

Overcoming, and letting go of jealousy, and the deep rooted insecurity that it is made of is a difficult and scary thing to do. No one wants to lose the things they value, including and especially their wife, or relationship. To expose those things to what one may see as unnecessary temptation could be seen as reckless by many. I would agree if done without care and devoid of love. Doing it for one's own wants and desires rather than for those of the couple is dooming the relationship to failure. Although I would argue it is already doomed, this is simply the condition under which it will meet it's demise.

This is a very large topic, of which the many varied concerns could be discussed at length. Hopefully this has provided some insight into at least one person's approach to bringing others to be shared among my partners and me.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

In reading the previous posts on this thread I came across this curious statement by Old_Soldier.



old_soldier said:


> I would like to add, when I got married I promised my wife (in front of about 75 witnesses and a preacher) to "have and to hold from this day forward; to love, to honour, to cherish; in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, *for better, for worse;* having only unto you and foresaking all others fas as long as we both shall live."
> 
> I ask y'all, where in that promise does it say that she or I can bring a third party into our relationship or swap her with someone else. I gave my word. My word is my bond. Negotiated infidelity is still infidelity. It violates my word and that is wrong.


And yet in his previous post he admits following;



old_soldier said:


> If my wife decided that- me, myself or I no longer were enough for her sexual gratification, I would simply walk away. I did it once



So much for, for better, for worse, I suppose..


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I find your user name, SacredSex, curious and ironic, given your admission of affairs and inclusion of third parties in your marital sex life.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

SacredSex said:


> *I am not and never have been willing to share my wife or significant other with anyone.* That would be pairing me in partnership with the third party, and assumes an ownership or control over my partner that I neither have nor want. *I have, however, on more than a few occasions shared other individuals or couples with my significant other.*


If you aren't already employed as a spinmeister in Washington, D.C., you should consider that as a career.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> I find your user name, SacredSex, curious and ironic, given your admission of affairs and inclusion of third parties in your marital sex life.


I've never been good at the irony thing. Could you point it out for me?


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> If you aren't already employed as a spinmeister in Washington, D.C., you should consider that as a career.


This is a critical distinction for me and I can only reiterate what I've said above;



> "This is similar to the way I don't go out to diner and share my wife with a chocolate sundae. Some may say I am parsing words here but I disagree strongly. This is the difference that makes it a respectful and acceptable act for me and those that have shared these occasions with me. I look at these additional folks that we have invited to participate in our love making to be equal to sex toys. Simply something that provides another facet to our overall sexual repertoire, and something that enhances our experience. Just another tool in the toolbox."


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I would think it's obvious. :scratchhead:
Sacred can mean reverently devoted to another or dedicated exclusively to another. That seems contradictory with including third parties in one's sexual relationship. 

Let the word parsing now begin...


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Something I learned recently that I believe is interesting if nothing else is the Bible's definition of adultery is other than what most people may think.



> Conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin.


As such in my case, since I didn't actually engage in these activities when I was married I could not be considered a fornicator in any case and I could only be considered an adulterer if the other party was a married woman. I am very much opposed to facilitating one spouse's efforts to cheat on the other and as such we never solicited a threesome with married individuals, however it is likely we did engage married individuals within the sex clubs we attended. As the definition above makes no allowance for permissive actions, in these cases I would have to accept the label of adulterer, but at least I'm not a fornicator.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> I would think it's obvious. :scratchhead:
> Sacred can mean reverently devoted to another or dedicated exclusively to another. That seems contradictory with including third parties in one's sexual relationship.
> 
> Let the word parsing now begin...


I'm still unsure as to how this would fit the definition of irony but rather than worry about that I'll simply address the notion that my chosen name is somehow contradictory to my actions. I would state the my devotion is dedicated exclusively to my partner. Other parties in my bed do not change the focus of my devotion.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Of additional interest at least to me is the concept of infidelity within marriage. It's defined generally as a "disloyalty to an obligation"and more specifically within marriage as "adultery, a betrayal, cheating and unfaithfulness". As we've seen above adultery only applies when having sexual intercourse with other married individuals, and since the activity is hopefully consensual and accepted as allowable within the confines of the participant's marriage it would appear the term hardly applies to this activity.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

LOL. I think someone got an "A" in Rationalization 101.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> LOL. I think someone got an "A" in Rationalization 101.


You are suggesting that I am somehow trying to justify or make excuses for my actions? I have absolutely no need to do that what-so-ever. There is no one on this site who's opinion of me or my actions makes any difference to me. Every single person can come and condemn me or what I have done and I will not waver in my beliefs. I have acted in accordance with them, and do not regret it at all. I don't require or particularly want your approval. I honestly don't care what you think one way or the other, but I respect your right to think it, and you won't find me suggesting your thoughts are a matter of convenience to justify your actions. I simply responded to a post with my experience and thoughts behind it. If you find it too incredible to believe, tough ****. Doesn't make any difference in the face of the truth. I think you should take care when accusing others of being disingenuous with their beliefs. It's rude, and that's it's only value here.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

SacredSex said:


> In reading the previous posts on this thread I came across this curious statement by Old_Soldier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And this my friends is the ultimate of manipulation of my words. Absolutly nowhere, I MEAN NOWHERE, does "for better, for worse" mean adultery is forgivable.
Furthormore, your definition of adultery is also misquoted (probably for your own benifit). Adultry is any sex between a married person and someone who is not their spouce. You don't like God or the Bible , or any other religious guidence, fine, that's your gig, but don't misquote things to manipulate the meaning of a statement. That's what people without honour or integrity do.
BTW look up the meaning of "SEMPER Fi". Tell us what that means.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Phrixos Oidipous said:


> As occasional swingers I had to say that thread should change it's name to "would you allow your spouse/partner to have extramartial sex" that would be a more meaningful title, the problem with having sex with someone who is not your spouse would be jealousy issues. It actually requires both spouses to be mature enough to understand that sex can be seperated from love itself. Luckily me and my partner understands this very well, thus we occasionally either hire an escort to have some threesome or even go straight to a brothel after work if we were too lazy to plan. I know it sounds that we are having debauchrous sexlife, but it is just merely our lifestyle choices.
> 
> Since I havnt finish reading the whole thread Im in no position to judge or critize on how people precieves on extramartial sex. Well that's my view on the issue and as well as my "darker" side of my relationship.
> 
> ...


Are you and your partner married?
If so how long?

And how did both of you deal with the normal jealousy issues you made reference to earlier on?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok then.

The reason I asked was because there is another poster on this thread who is also in a LTR and has threesomes.
But his position is that if he and his girlfriend got married they would both reconsider the threesomes activity.

So from what I gather , those people who are involved in it have differing views on marriage, sex and intimacy.
Am I correct?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Phrixos Oidipous said:


> *We were not married CM nor we will ever get married. Read my profile, I'm currently living in a long term relationship for the past 8 years. I believe in companionship between two persons, since the word " marriage" are overrated these days, it is just merely a piece of paper for tax benefits anyway. With divorce rates skyrocketing to a new height, it even gives me a view that love might not last forever anyways, if it's not last forever then why make your union and love as a legal document? *
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



As an aside and as a word of caution, please be so very careful that you are not residing in one of our *"common-law marriage"* states whose legal requirements for such can be as little as your "living/cohabitating" with a member of the opposite sex, either intentionally or unintentionally, all while conveying to the "general public" the  "perception" that by either "your actions or your presence"  that you are thereby, directly or indirectly, representing yourself to them as being married; or if you are "using that cohabitation in any way to publicly foster that relationship" i. e. the filing of a joint federal, state, or local tax return using the more adventageous filing status of MFJ, then the state and/or the fed can legally impose upon you, whether you want it or not, the "married status". The only variable in your favor is that the common-law statutes of these states are variable~ some being unrealistically extreme while others are a little more lenient. Check those laws out for your particular locale.

In any event, if you are ever deemed by either the state, local, or federal government to be common-law married, then you are legally considered as such~ and then a full-blown divorce per the laws of your particular state is thereby in order for you to legally emancipate yourself from that most often unwanted marital status!

This greatly gives those governmental entities the power to effectively deal with the so-called "Samsonite Marriages" when doing so benefits that entity~ and with the credit for that terminology being duly extended to deceased comedian Redd Foxx, who used it as part of his comedy schtik ~ "A Samsonite Wedding is defined as "Shack!"~ then to get a divorce, all that you have to do is "Pack!"


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> As an aside and as a word of caution, please be so very careful that you are not residing in one of our *"common-law marriage"* states whose legal requirements for such can be as little as your "living/cohabitating" with a member of the opposite sex


I'm guessing that 'down under' in his location means Australia.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Phrixos Oidipous said:


> As occasional swingers I had to say that thread should change it's name to "would you allow your spouse/partner to have extramartial sex" that would be a more meaningful title, the problem with having sex with someone who is not your spouse would be jealousy issues. *It actually requires both spouses to be mature enough to understand that sex can be seperated from love itself.* Luckily me and my partner understands this very well, thus we occasionally either hire an escort to have some threesome or even go straight to a brothel after work if we were too lazy to plan. I know it sounds that we are having debauchrous sexlife, but it is just merely our lifestyle choices.
> 
> Since I havnt finish reading the whole thread Im in no position to judge or critize on how people precieves on extramartial sex. Well that's my view on the issue and as well as my "darker" side of my relationship.
> 
> ...


I find your statement to be the exact opposite when it concerns marriage. In your case, since you two are not married and have entered into this agreement as single people, it's an entirely different concept that what has been discussed throughout this thread. It's easy to think of sex as nothing more than a physical release - for pure pleasure when you have no plans to want to spend the rest of your life with someone special.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I'm guessing that 'down under' in his location means Australia.


It's basically inherent in any country or state that has richly subscribed to the tenants of common-law marriage and has legally placed it in their statutes.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

My husband and I have "swong" - I know that's not a word and I am totally for it and have no issues with it.

Why did we venture into this? Lots of reasons.

#1 - my husband discovered he was "bi" after a TBI and a stroke. This was a way to explore his bi-ness and me to be a part of it and not wonder who he was doing behind my back (MY IDEA, NOT HIS).

#2 - I love my husband and he loves me, but after 29 years, a little variety isn't going to hurt anyone (not to us at least).

#3 - we've been married so long, nobody's going anywhere so neither of us feel threatened by inviting someone else into the bedroom.

#4 - due to my husband's TBI and stroke, he experiences ongoing ED - this allows me to experience intercourse that I might not otherwise get to experience often due to his medical issues.

#5 - call me weird, but it turns me on to watch my husband have sex with someone else (has always been men, no women due to ED issues).

#6 - it also turns him on to watch me with other men - you'd have to ask him why.

Our decision was much less about wanting to spice things up and more about branching out, experimenting and embracing his new found bisexuality, etc.

So for us, not a problem. But we are an unusual couple and what works for us definitely doesn't work for everyone.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Phrixos Oidipous said:


> As occasional swingers I had to say that thread should change it's name to "would you allow your spouse/partner to have extramartial sex" that would be a more meaningful title, the problem with having sex with someone who is not your spouse would be jealousy issues. It actually requires both spouses to be mature enough to understand that sex can be seperated from love itself. Luckily me and my partner understands this very well, thus we occasionally either hire an escort to have some threesome or even go straight to a brothel after work if we were too lazy to plan. I know it sounds that we are having debauchrous sexlife, but it is just merely our lifestyle choices.
> 
> Since I havnt finish reading the whole thread Im in no position to judge or critize on how people precieves on extramartial sex. Well that's my view on the issue and as well as my "darker" side of my relationship.
> 
> ...


I agree, my husband and I swing and we have no jealous issues.

Unfortunately "SEX" is no longer sacred in our society whether you be single, in a commmitted relationship or married. 

In fact, a lot of people WHO ARE NOT in a relationship seem to have a lot more sex than those of us who are!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> I get that this choice is mutual. However, I believe that marriage is meant to be monogamous. I don't believe in bringing anyone into a marriage bed, whether both spouses consent or not. It is, in my opinion, still adultery.
> 
> And I'm not trying to judge anyone. The question was asked about what people think, and I was answering.


Depends on what your definition of "monogamous" is.

Are people truly totally "monogamous" in thought, dreams, actions, etc.?

I don't think so.

But, not for everyone.

But adultery - far from it. Who says that the marriage bed has to involve only two people? I make my own decisions, if they are not good for everyone, then fine - but I don't judge others who wish not to go down my path either.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> My husband and I have "swong" - I know that's not a word and I am totally for it and have no issues with it.
> 
> Why did we venture into this? Lots of reasons.
> 
> ...


Having read your posts,
A few questions comes to my mind.

1] If your husband didn have his medical issues including the ED, do you think he would have suggested the idea of swinging?

2]If your husband wasn't bisexual , would the idea of him having sex with another woman in a threesome be exciting you?

3]Are you saying that the only time you have PIV sex is during a threesome ? If so, then is it that the idea of swinging came up in order to please your sexual desire ?

4] Who does the selection of the sexual partners?

NB:
If you are not comfortable answering the questions, then no need to feel pressured, I can understand.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I really don't have much to contribute, but I have to add this:

Just because our society doesn't see sex as sacred anymore, doesn't mean that it _isn't_ sacred, or isn't meant to be, or that some people in society don't still treat it as sacred.

Ok. That's all.


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## J.R.Jefferis (Jun 27, 2012)

Count me in the category of those that are very much against it. I have talked to many people who thought this would be a good idea to enrich their relationships and almost all of them said that opening their sex lives to other people only had a negative effect on the relationship and sadly most ended in divorce or separation. Relationships and marriage are all about sharing a part of yourself with another person that you wouldn't share with anyone else. That's what makes the bond so strong. Having sex with others throws away that intimate bond. Also, it opens the door to jealousy and mistrust. In short...couples that engage in this sort of behavior are most certainly headed for disaster.

JR


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

J.R.Jefferis said:


> Ccouples that engage in this sort of behavior are most certainly headed for disaster.


This is simply not true. There is no evidence that there is a higher divorce rate amongst swingers and there are numerous examples of long-term swinging couples who are happily married. 

It is certainly not for everybody, but a blanket statement like this is simply false.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

PBear said:


> We also had to deal with some "fallout" after the 3.5some. After the other couple left, we were laying in bed, and I could tell something was bothering my GF. And then she said she had to get up and take a shower (at about 2 in the morning). I fell asleep before she got back in bed, and we ended up talking at 5 in the morning. We ended up working things out, and I think we were stronger because of it. It showed that we could talk about uncomfortable subjects and work out things, which was a huge improvement over our past relationships.
> 
> 
> C


Can you elaborate on this fallout? Was it because it was with her BFF? Or what?


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## Scutari (Oct 21, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> I can't imagine watching my husband with another woman. I'd probably hurt her. And then him!
> 
> When you do this in a marriage, you open a Pandora's Box. I think most people are unprepared for the aftermath. You can't undo the images. Very few people can handle the images and being able to handle the images doesn't mean you're stronger or your marriage is better. I think it means you don't care that much about your partner. What you value, you don't share it with everyone else.


If a couple make this in their relationship or marriage, ıt means their relationship is over.


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

Scutari said:


> If a couple make this in their relationship or marriage, ıt means their relationship is over.


I think you mean to say:
"If WE did this in OUR marriage, it means OUR marriage is over"

Let's not dictate the rules, boundaries, of other people's relationships.


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## shagnasty (Dec 19, 2012)

my wife had a sexual relationship with one of my friends for about 4 or 5 months when i she told me, I felt terrible but she told me about things she had done with him and it excited me when we were having sex, and i found out i enjoyed her talking about having sex with him, we moved away from him and went back to where we were from and stayed with this other friend of mine who was going thru a divorce, one night when we had been drinking she said she would like to have sex with him, so i told him and she sucked him off while i was there then i had sex with her, and he was ready by then so he did to, this went on all night, and continued for 20 years until we moved back east, i missed it as i loved to watch them kiss and suck each other. more later


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

It really depends upon the disposition of those involved. If you have people who are jealous or can't curb pangs of jealousy it's not a good idea. I would honestly not recommend it. As a given rule it's an extremely bad idea.

It can work given the right circumstances. I had a relationship with a married couple not too long ago that started out as a flirtation between me and the wife. The husband was uncomfortable with it at first but after a few rounds he found that he actually liked seeing her with me. We had several encounters where I cuckolded him and they both enjoyed it. I don't know if it helped or hurt their marriage. I think they're still together but I definitely wouldn't take that as evidence that such behavior is benign.


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## suspiciousOfPeople (Sep 5, 2012)

As I have stated in the past. I am comfortable with sharing my wife with the right person (male or female) as long as I am present. it's very erotic and I love watching her being pleasured. However, the thought of her screwing around behind my back brings out the psychopath in me (imagine crime of passion!).


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

shagnasty said:


> my wife had a sexual relationship with one of my friends for about 4 or 5 months when i she told me, I felt terrible but she told me about things she had done with him and it excited me when we were having sex, and i found out i enjoyed her talking about having sex with him, we moved away from him and went back to where we were from and stayed with this other friend of mine who was going thru a divorce, one night when we had been drinking she said she would like to have sex with him, so i told him and she sucked him off while i was there then i had sex with her, and he was ready by then so he did to, this went on all night, and continued for 20 years until we moved back east, i missed it as i loved to watch them kiss and suck each other. more later


So you like the idea of kissing a mouth that had the di_k of another man in it, that had his man stuff in it?:scratchhead:


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> And this my friends is the ultimate of manipulation of my words. Absolutly nowhere, I MEAN NOWHERE, does "for better, for worse" mean adultery is forgivable.
> Furthormore, your definition of adultery is also misquoted (probably for your own benifit). Adultry is any sex between a married person and someone who is not their spouce. You don't like God or the Bible , or any other religious guidence, fine, that's your gig, but don't misquote things to manipulate the meaning of a statement. That's what people without honour or integrity do.
> BTW look up the meaning of "SEMPER Fi". Tell us what that means.


Hey Old Soldier, sorry so long in response. I was on hiatus. I agree with you, nowhere, and I too mean nowhere, does it say "for better, for worse" means adultery is forgivable. It is, however, in many parts of the free world assumed to be forgivable. Many married couples who've suffered one partner's infidelity don't just throw in the towel and quit on the marriage. It takes a lot of honesty, a lot of work, but mostly the want of both parties to salvage the marriage. Given the effort and the desire some folks can forgive and get past the infidelity they've suffered, others not. Some folks aren't strong enough for this, or don't have forgiveness in their hearts. Some people are just quitters and would rather discard things and get a new one, than repair the one they have. We live is a disposable world, it's no surprise this thinking extends to one's spouse and marriage. 

And while I believe this to be true, it is off point as far as I can see. Your statement that I was referring to read as follows



> If my wife decided that- me, myself or I no longer were enough for her sexual gratification, I would simply walk away. I did it once.


I must have misunderstood what you meant by this. There must be an inferred "and she went and committed adultery" in there somewhere. This wasn't clear to me. I thought you simply meant she didn't like sex with you anymore. Although adultery is a legitimate reason for divorce it seems vows are more absolute. "For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, for as long as we both shall live." I mean, this is a grand statement. A huge promise. Unfortunately, with all the unspoken qualifiers it still sounds great but it just doesn't mean a lot anymore. Everyone has something that's bad enough to void this promise and leave this vow and that spouse behind.

In response to your assertion that I misquoted a definition, all I've got to say is; No, I didn't, and I can't imagine what benefit I might gain by having done so.

I take offense to your assertion;


> You don't like God or the Bible , or any other religious guidence, fine, that's your gig, but don't misquote things to manipulate the meaning of a statement. That's what people without honour or integrity do.


as it ascribes thoughts, beliefs and actions to me that I have neither said, hold true, nor done. You say I don't like God. Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE did I ever state that I don't like God. Further, Never and I mean NEVER have I ever purposely misquoted anything with the intention of manipulating the meaning of some other unreferenced statement. If I have it is unbeknownst to me, and I would request that you bring that occurrence to my attention so it can be remedied. Further still, you suggest that I am without honor or integrity for having done these things you have accused me of. A man of honor and integrity would apologize for slinging willy nilly such reckless and inaccurate accusations.

Regarding your desire that I look up the definition of "SEMPER Fi" and report it to everyone here, I am not your dog and I am not here to do your bidding. If you don't know what it means then I would suggest you weren't much of a soldier and looking it up at this point probably wouldn't help you. I always thought it meant something like "Always Loyal, except if you commit adultery. Then I'm leaving your ass!" or something like that. I don't really know look it up and you can tell us when you post your apology.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> So you like the idea of kissing a mouth that had the di_k of another man in it, that had his man stuff in it?:scratchhead:


Interesting thing for you to accuse shagnasty of. You have completely misrepresented what he said in his post. He did mention kissing in his story but only between his wife and the other man. He never spoke of kissing her after she had performed oral sex on the other man, and nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE, did he suggest he liked doing this. Given that your accusation is inflammatory, and completely without merit, would you say that it perhaps would fall outside the lines of the Posting Guidelines - Forum Rule #5.


> No posting just to incite people or start arguments. (aka "trolls")


Odder still is that Caribbean Man endorsed it with a 'like'.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I will post no apology, for I have written nothing to apologize for. 

"SEMPER FI" means always faithful, it is the motto and the creed of one of the US fighting services, and a couple of army regiments in Canada. Most of these service people honour and live that creed. I did not accuse you, specificly, of "not liking God". It was a general question put out to those that try to justify bad behaviour by saying they do not need God or other religious guidlines to "rule their life". Sadly, yes, adultery is an unforgivable transgression against a marriage. Yes, I did walk away from an alduring woman. No man should have to endure that level of betrayal and disrespect. Because that is what adultery is, BETRAYAL and DISRESPECT. 

As far as the Shagnasty post, it was again a question, nothing accusitory, just a question. I did not call anyone names, I was just curious that's all. 

Just for the record, and I quote " and she sucked him off while i was there then i had sex with her, and he was ready by then so he did to, this went on all night, and continued for 20 years until we moved back east, i missed it as i loved to watch them kiss and suck each other. more later"

Tell me you don't kiss someone while having sex with them, hmm?Chastize me if you will, but this is not the behavior of a true loving married couple.

BTW HAPPY NEW YEAR one and all.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> Tell me you don't kiss someone while having sex with them, hmm?Chastize me if you will, but this is not the behavior of a true loving married couple.


And you are the final word in what constitutes a 'true loving couple'?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SacredSex said:


> Interesting thing for you to accuse shagnasty of. You have completely misrepresented what he said in his post. He did mention kissing in his story but only between his wife and the other man. He never spoke of kissing her after she had performed oral sex on the other man, and nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE, did he suggest he liked doing this. Given that your accusation is inflammatory, and completely without merit, would you say that it perhaps would fall outside the lines of the Posting Guidelines - Forum Rule #5.
> 
> *Odder still is that Caribbean Man endorsed it with a 'like'.*


I " like" his post because I think I could see where he's coming from.
I don't think that I could have done what shagnasty said he and his wife did for 20 years.
He may not have gone into step by step details, but you , I and oldsoldier are adults and we all know what basically happens during these adult sessions.
His post may have been inflammatory , but that's not why I put my " like" next to his post. I " liked " his post because I can't see myself having sex with any woman who just had sex with another man right in front of me, much less kiss her.
Whether that woman was my wife or just a casual encounter.
However I also understand your point.
Everybody is different, and everybody has their particular kinks.

I had also " liked" this post , # 275 on 12.19.2012 by JTL ,
where he stated :

"..._I think you mean to say:
If WE did this in OUR marriage, it means OUR marriage is over"

Let's not dictate the rules, boundaries, of other people's relationships_..."

In response to post # 274 by Scutari ;

"..._If a couple make this in their relationship or marriage, ıt means their relationship is over_. .."

I "liked" it because I agreed with what he said. 

I have stated at the start of this thread and right throughout the thread exact where my bias is. However, it doesn't mean that others don't have a point. 
I is good when they could articulate their point of view, and why it worked for them , why they think it could or could not work for others, and even defend their position.

Things may get a little heated at times.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> And you are the final word in what constitutes a 'true loving couple'?


I agree.
But I think what Old_soldier should have said was 

"..how can that be the actions of a loving couple.."

So you are right.
But in reality people express love in different ways. Every relationship has its own set of rules and boundaries.
It's just difficult for people who are not inclined to share their husband/wife to understand the rules and boundaries that apply to those others whose relationships allow for sharing of their spouses.
[ and maybe vice- versa?]

But remember that every life has a story. Old_Soldier said his wife was unfaithful,so he obviously would be vehemently opposed to the idea of people sharing their spouses.

You on the other hand may not have experienced unfaithfulness by your spouse, and view love , sex and intimacy between a married couple differently
So I agree with your point on what constitutes a 
" loving couple."

Would you like to share with us exactly how this works for_ your_ relationship?
Are there no jealousy issues?
Insecurity issues?
Is it that the third part aspect is just a random , anonymous person like another poster said, without any attachment before or after the act ?
Or is it usually someone you guys know and trust to operate within the boundaries that you all set for him and not go beyond?


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> And you are the final word in what constitutes a 'true loving couple'?


Nope, not the final word. Your deal is your deal, you take care of it the way you see fit, whether I condone it or not, whether I understand it or not. My deal is my deal and I deal with it the way I see fit.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> Nope, not the final word. Your deal is your deal, you take care of it the way you see fit, whether I condone it or not, whether I understand it or not. My deal is my deal and I deal with it the way I see fit.


Yet you are happy to tell people what constitutes a loving couple, who honours who, what constitutes an alpha male etc. Every time someone pulls you up on your narrow-mindedness you hide behind the 'your deal is your deal' line.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Yet you are happy to tell people what constitutes a loving couple, who honours who, what constitutes an alpha male etc. Every time someone pulls you up on your narrow-mindedness you hide behind the 'your deal is your deal' line.


Holy mackeral man. You call me narrow minded? I thought this thread was all about one's personal opinion about threesomes, and wife shareing and other dirty stuff like that, yet you choose to attack my personal opinion. What's the matter, does the truth I speak hurt?, does my personal opinion challange you to reasses your moral code? Does my personal opinion actually cause people to take a second look at the manipulation of ideas frought by those that practice this type of lifestyle.

Your deal is your deal. You choose to live it. I refuse to condone it. Our society is slowly falling apart man, yet you choose to attack me because I do not agree with your morality.

Here's a couple of things to think about; 
"when you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences", and,
"If the one person in the world that has chosen to love and trust you, can't, who then, can?"

In today's world, integrity, respect and honour are very hard traits to find in people. So why do you attack me when I try to expess my opinion as to what costitutes, integrity, honour and respect according to the opinion of the vast majority of our society?

Always remember when you point a finger at some one, three are pointing back at you.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Old Soldier; Your words, (emphasis added) 


> I did not accuse *you*, specificly, of "not liking God". It was a general question put out to those that try to justify bad behaviour by saying they do not need God or other religious guidlines to "rule their life".


but in fact, in the post to which *I* was responding, you wrote;(emphasis added)


old_soldier said:


> And this my friends is the ultimate of manipulation of my words. Absolutly nowhere, I MEAN NOWHERE, does "for better, for worse" mean adultery is forgivable.
> Furthormore, *your* definition of adultery is also misquoted (probably for *your* own benifit). Adultry is any sex between a married person and someone who is not their spouce. *You don't like God or the Bible , or any other religious guidence, fine, that's your gig, but don't misquote things to manipulate the meaning of a statement. That's what people without honour or integrity do.
> *


The content of *your* post was directed at *me*, something *I* wrote, or something *I* supposedly did. First *you* accuse *me* of manipulating *your* words to somehow make the words "for better, for worse" mean adultery is forgivable. Although *I *believe adultery can be forgiven I never suggested that *you* said or meant that. In fact *I* never mentioned adultery in that post at all. Then in response to a different post of mine that was unrelated to the above and had not been directed to *you*, *you* were railing on about how *I *misquoted the definition of adultery and this is simply a continuation of that comment. I'm not sure how *you *know what definition *I* was quoting, but regardless, *I* can't imagine anyone reading *your* statement and thinking *you* were not writing this to *me*. It is not unreasonable to believe that when *you* write "*You* don't like God or the Bible..." that *you* were indeed ascribing that to *me*. *You* may have meant it some other way, and this *I* highly doubt, but that's not what *you* wrote. What *you* wrote is baseless, untrue, and without merit. *I *find it highly offensive, and the fact that *you* refuse to apologize for it is no surprise to *me*. It is written solely to incite an argument. *You* refuse to apologize because *you* say *you* weren't writing it to or about *me*, that it was a general question to the other people that believe that way. Yet there is no question, no question mark, nothing but *your *assertion. I think *you* are either a liar or a very poor writer. In either case *you* are without honor, because *you* are not man enough to admit and apologize when *you* are wrong. Instead *you* hide behind completely ridiculous justifications, but that's *your* deal. *Your* deal is *your* deal. *You* choose to live it. *I *refuse to condone it. *I* believe *you* do dishonor the fine men and women who serve this country as a member of the U.S. Marine Corps every time *you* utter the words Semper Fi. And that is not a general question put out there to anyone. It is directed to *you*.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

old_soldier said:


> Our society is slowly falling apart man, yet you choose to attack me because I do not agree with your morality..


I haven't attacked anyone. My objection is to you telling people what they should think, how they should love and what constitutes a loving relationship. 
You have come to this thread to attack people who have a different approach to life and to boast about how much honour and integrity you have. 

As for the world falling apart, where does that come from? There has been no time when the world has been better. We live longer, have more free time, are healthier and are less likely to die violently than at any other time in history. The world is not falling apart, it is becoming more tolerant...well, most of it is anyway.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

OK, that's it, I'm done on this thread. I have offended some and I will apologize for that.

The old soldier has been beaten up so let's move on shall we.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

I'd recommend to everyone that they be careful when sharing their spouses. I've met couples who invited me for some fun, and when one of them started having much more fun than the other it got ugly.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

old_soldier said:


> OK, that's it, I'm done on this thread. I have offended some and I will apologize for that.
> 
> The old soldier has been beaten up so let's move on shall we.


When were you planning on making this apology? Or are just going to call that it and duck out. Seems to me a man of honor and integrity would take a look at how he has offended some, and what their concern is and where you are culpable acknowledge that and apologize. It's a simple thing. Just harder for some than others.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> Our society is slowly falling apart man,
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ...


Wait. What?

The only way to make such statements is to ignore history. Or maybe you are referring to the good old days of slavery, unequal protection of the law, denying women the vote or equal pay, etc. etc. The most enlightened societies of the past would be considered brutally backward today.

There are as many people of integrity, respect and honor today as there ever were (more in absolute numbers because there are so many more people). You're just looking in the wrong places.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

It's simple.

When a man and woman who love each other, respect God and both families (no matter what they believe), it's a spiritual, emotional, physical, legal, financial bonding / contract.

If others want to do a three some, be single and do whatever pleases you but marriage is sacred and special between two people.

A three some, is cheating and breaking your marriage vows. Why did you get married in the first place then?

I could easily go out, meet a woman or women with a friends with benefits situation, my wife would never find out, but I'm not that bad and an animal. Moral free will, conscience, you get the idea.

It all comes down to moral free will and choice in the end.

My wife would be destroyed if we did a three some (mainly for me) or if I had hook ups with other women just because she has a low drive and I have a high drive.


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## JTL (Dec 14, 2009)

old_soldier said:


> OK, that's it, I'm done on this thread. I have offended some and I will apologize for that.
> 
> The old soldier has been beaten up so let's move on shall we.


Too bad Old Soldier, i didn't mind your posts at all and i thought that we had a very repectful back and forth over differing ideas. Nobody should get their nose out of joint about people's strong opinions on this subject. Good thing we are not talking politics or abortion!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

JTL said:


> Good thing we are not talking politics or abortion!





Seriously though,
If a married couple wants to open up their marriage to a threesome, I cannot say that they will eventually divorce, or that they are wrong.
Based on what has been posted here on this thread, the majority of those involved [ on this thread] seem to have been married for quite a while, are middle aged or over and actually enjoy their marriage.
They seem to have found creative ways to deal with the issues of jealousy and insecurity.
Fine.
However, I don't think this type of activity comes highly recommended for everyone.
I still hold my view that its not something that can work for my wife and I.[ she' very jealous and I'm worse, ha ha! ]
I think its very risky business, the casualties are high.
But I know some people like the thrill. Risk only makes it more attractive and fun to them!
The types of sexual variation may also play a huge part.

But I guess that's the human spirit.
Everybody is different.


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## musicaldreams (Jan 5, 2013)

For awhile I was friends with a couple of swingers. The gal wanted to have sex with me, but would only do it if I brought another gal along, preferably my wife, but if not, she requested a "hot asian girl." She and I were friends so I used to ask her about her sex life and how it all worked. She said that she and her boyfriend used other couples as "sex toys." It turned her on to see her boyfriend banging another girl, and he liked sharing her (my friend) with another guy.

I told them that my wife and I would not go for it, so once that was out of the way, I kept on asking her questions over the curse of our friendship. They used to go to Swingers Clubs. They liked being naked. They liked being watched.

As she and I became better friends she told me that she was married 3 times (she was 33 when we met). She clearly had some emotional and psychological problems that bubbled to the surface until I could no longer be friends with her.

They seemed to be a very happy couple. She showed me some porn she did with him and she did with another girl, squeezing each other's breasts while lactating, etc. I wanted to vomit.

Anyway, the friendship dissolved. I have no problem with what they were doing, but she was emotionally unbalanced and despite the fact that she clearly loved sex, there were likely some subconscious issues in her head that she was not aware of that motivated her to feel wanted, or want to feel wanted, by anyone who would have her ... black, white, man, woman, etc.

Other Swingers I have known, and who I have not known, all have their own reasons, and I think it's cool if it makes them happy. Why not? They are not hurting anyone. But in the case of the gal I told you about ... yeah, she had some issues. But that was just her. Either way, I am sure she is getting banged by four guys right now - including her boyfriend - and loving it.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

JTL said:


> Too bad Old Soldier, i didn't mind your posts at all and i thought that we had a very repectful back and forth over differing ideas. Nobody should get their nose out of joint about people's strong opinions on this subject. Good thing we are not talking politics or abortion!


:iagree:

I didn't see anything wrong with old soldier's posts. I enjoyed reading his perspective. 

If people go around demanding apologies every time someone disagreed with them on this board, nearly every thread would be littered with them. If people are posting on the internet they need to have a thick skin and not get bent out of shape when others disagree. There's no need for old soldier to apologize, in my humble opinion.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> It's simple.
> 
> When a man and woman who love each other, respect God and both families (no matter what they believe), it's a spiritual, emotional, physical, legal, financial bonding / contract.


Marriage pre-dates Christianity and belief in a god is not necessary for a marriage to be legitimate or successful.



CuddleBug said:


> If others want to do a three some, be single and do whatever pleases you but marriage is sacred and special between two people.
> 
> A three some, is cheating and breaking your marriage vows. Why did you get married in the first place then?


No-one has the right to dictate what consenting couples do within their marriage.



CuddleBug said:


> It all comes down to moral free will and choice in the end.


A situation in which all affected parties are consenting is not immoral.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I didn't see anything wrong with old soldier's posts. I enjoyed reading his perspective.
> 
> If people go around demanding apologies every time someone disagreed with them on this board, nearly every thread would be littered with them. If people are posting on the internet they need to have a thick skin and not get bent out of shape when others disagree. There's no need for old soldier to apologize, in my humble opinion.


I honestly don't care if old soldier apologizes or not. I never expected him to. For the record the reason I asked for an apology is; is because he made the following assertion about me in response to my post.



> *You don't like God or the Bible , or any other religious guidence, fine, that's your gig, but don't misquote things to manipulate the meaning of a statement. That's what people without honour or integrity do.*


This is not disagreeing with me, this completely fabricating beliefs and actions then stating that they are mine. What if posting on one of your threads I stated; "Your opinion means nothing here as you're are a self proclaimed pedophile and a convicted prostitute and furthermore, in my humble opinion, people of such low standing, people of your ilk shouldn't be allowed to post here with us." 

And then if I were to continue to talk about my own self righteousness and abundance of piety, wouldn't you say; "Hey wait a minute buddy?" 

People agree and disagree with me all the time. I don't care about that, everyone is deserving of their own beliefs. If everyone held my beliefs I wouldn't feel special at all.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Again, marriage is between a man and women, holy bonds of matrimony. It's special and more than just a piece of paper. If it's only a piece of paper to you, don't get married. Simple.

A threesome, foursome, etc. is an orgy, not a loving commitment between husband and wife. And in most if not all situations, leads to issues in the marriage and even divorce.

Would I love it if my wifee wanted another guy with us in bed? I would say, there's the door, you're breaking your marriage vows and why did you marry me in the first place?

The shoe goes on the other foot as well. Would I say to my wife, I want another women in the bed. Should would kick me out, divorce and why did I waste years being married to you?

If you're single and do whatever pops in your head and talk "justify" everything away.

Some fantasies should remain just that. 

Fantasy of mine, sex with 2 or more hot sexy women, all positions, holes, everything goes. Would I? NOPE. Then I'd be no better then an animal and my wifee would of been gone long ago. Or I got it out of my system before I got married. Marriage is work, commitment, some sacrifice, not do anything that pops into your head.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> Again, marriage is between a man and women, holy bonds of matrimony. It's special and more than just a piece of paper. If it's only a piece of paper to you, don't get married. Simple.


Marriage is not holy to many people and it does not belong to any religion, so you have no right to dictate who can get married and how they must view it. Marriage includes same-sex couples and has nothing to do with any god. It is a civil institution.



CuddleBug said:


> And in most if not all situations, leads to issues in the marriage and even divorce.


That is false.



CuddleBug said:


> Fantasy of mine, sex with 2 or more hot sexy women, all positions, holes, everything goes. Would I? NOPE. Then I'd be no better then an animal


 We are animals.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

We are not animals, but we can act like them at times, quite badly. Not one other life form on this planet has any technologies, clothing, in the depths of the seas, land, air, and in space, moon, mars and beyond (only us), understanding of the universe (not necessary, eat, reproduce, shelter, only needed). We are the only ones that do this and it's all unnecessary, animals don't do these things and they out number us and have been on this planet much longer than us. We are unique, otherwise, almost half of the planet would have animals, etc., with accomplishments likes ours, you'd see it everywhere.

Christianity isn't the only faith that teaches marriage is between a man and woman. Islam, Judaism, now you have billions of people in these faiths, marriage, etc.

Granted, you can do whatever you want and you're not going to be struck down by lightning. Everyone has the freedom to live their lives in peace and that's what I believe. No one has the right to force their beliefs and lifestyle on others and that's what I believe as well.

When people learn about what others believe, show respect and get along, that is good. But when others always find ways to nit pick, be confrontational, disrespectful, that's when it all starts.

I have moral free will and I chose to be faithful to my wife. I'm not an animal, it's all choice in the end and marriage is not just a piece of paper. Then marriage isn't for you.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> We are not animals, but we can act like them at times, quite badly. Not one other life form on this planet has any technologies...


Isn't birth control a technology?



> ...I have moral free will and I chose to be faithful to my wife. I'm not an animal, it's all choice in the end and marriage is not just a piece of paper. Then marriage isn't for you...


That is a smart choice. You will never go wrong being faithful. Do realize that there IS a difference between monogamy and fidelity. Some people choose to use technology that I noted above. You choose not to utilize birth control (at least not outside your marriage), and that's fine - provided your wife is in agreement and it's your mutual philosophy.

The beauty of the HIGHLY evolved human mind is that we understand our dopamine, testosterone, and oxytocin. They are drugs, though, so be careful with them. Monogamy can work well or be a ball and chain... it depends on the people involved. Multiple partners for the married individuals can work ok or be disaster... again, it depends on the people. What works well for you may not work for everyone. Live and let live.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Christianity isn't the only faith that teaches marriage is between a man and woman. Islam, Judaism, now you have billions of people in these faiths, marriage, etc.


Most people think that monogamous marriages originated d with Christianity.But it did not.
Monogamy [ marriage ] is as old as the first known civilization. The people of Mesopotamia known as Sumerian and Akkadian
used marriage to bring order to its massive population, in terms of property and land rights etc.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Marriage is in large part a civil union governed by civil law. There's no requirement of any holy bond to get married. There are no required vows. Feel free to express your religious views, but refrain from imposing your views on others or criticizing others for not sharing your views.


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## SacredSex (Sep 19, 2011)

It never ceases to amaze me how people think animals are dumb, or a lesser life form than we because they can't converse with us. Can't sit and discuss their latest technological advance. Just as we can't imagine what living in the 4th dimension would be like we have no idea what being a member of a bee hive would be like. Reptiles with infra-red sight, bats flying guided by radar, dolphins, and whales that navigate the great oceans of the world with their own highly accurate sonar. Butterflies the migrate from across Canada down to a tiny region of South American rain forest. Don't even get me started on fungi. They are from outter space man! But then again so are we I suppose. Our knowledge is so limited and yet we think we know more than all the other animals. We're quite the insane group of emotionally unstable bi-pods with a curious pride in our irrational and pronounced superiority complexes. Quite the poindextors. If clothing is a technology, then how about the hermit crab. Wears pre-owned organic shells excreted by other animals. Changing them periodically as they out-grow them or have an up coming event that requires formal attire.



CuddleBug said:


> We are not animals, but we can act like them at times, quite badly. Not one other life form on this planet has any technologies, clothing, in the depths of the seas, land, air, and in space, moon, mars and beyond (only us), understanding of the universe (not necessary, eat, reproduce, shelter, only needed).


We never seem to consider what the rest of the animals think of us and the fact that we can't communicate with them.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> We are not animals, but we can act like them at times, quite badly.


Actually when it comes to sex most animals are more restrained than we are. We certainly are animals and some of the horniest ones out there.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Actually when it comes to sex most animals are more restrained than we are. We certainly are animals and some of the horniest ones out there.


Johnny are you saying that we are at the same level as animals?
Are we lower than them with respect to sexual behaviours ?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SacredSex said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how people think animals are dumb, or a lesser life form than we because they can't converse with us. Can't sit and discuss their latest technological advance. Just as we can't imagine what living in the 4th dimension would be like we have no idea what being a member of a bee hive would be like. *Reptiles with infra-red sight, bats flying guided by radar, dolphins, and whales that navigate the great oceans of the world with their own highly accurate sonar. Butterflies the migrate from across Canada down to a tiny region of South American rain forest.* Don't even get me started on fungi. They are from outter space man! But then again so are we I suppose. Our knowledge is so limited and yet we think we know more than all the other animals. We're quite the insane group of emotionally unstable bi-pods with a curious pride in our irrational and pronounced superiority complexes. Quite the poindextors. If clothing is a technology, then how about the hermit crab. Wears pre-owned organic shells excreted by other animals. Changing them periodically as they out-grow them or have an up coming event that requires formal attire.


:iagree:

Sometimes I wonder if we are actully more advanced than them or if we are just in a different dimension and they are actually more advanced.
The largest species of turtles in the world is the giant leatherback turtle. Every single year, it leaves Africa , swims for months across the Atlantic ,comes to a few select beaches island in the Caribbean and digs a 3' x 8 ' wide hole, lays thousands of eggs in a 12 hour period , and simply heads back to Africa.
When the eggs hatch, the young ones head immediately for the water and swim,
Back to Africa!

Can human beings navigate like that without external technology?
I sometimes wonder,
If animal were able to cognate in like fashion as humans, we would be way inferior to them.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Johnny are you saying that we are at the same level as animals?
> Are we lower than them with respect to sexual behaviours ?


I don't know what you mean by 'lower'. 

The fact is that most animals don't have sex nearly as frequently as we do. Nor do they do so for bonding and recreation as we do. Most animals only mate when the female is in oestrus, often just once a year. 

Probably the only other animals which are as shag-happy as we are would be our close cousins the Bonobos.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> I don't know what you mean by 'lower'.
> 
> The fact is that most animals don't have sex nearly as frequently as we do. Nor do they do so for bonding and recreation as we do. Most animals only mate when the female is in oestrus, often just once a year.
> 
> Probably the only other animals which are as shag-happy as we are would be our close cousins the Bonobos.


In your post you said :

"...*Actually when it comes to sex most animals are more restrained than we are. We certainly are animals and some of the horniest ones out there*...."

Does them being " more restrained " make their sexual behaviour more noble?
Why are we even comparing animal sexual behaviour to humans?
The behaviours are only comparable up to a point.
Monkeys masturbate just like humans, but what type of porn do you think they masturbate to?
Do you think that actually * imagine * stuff when they masturbate, or do they just do it because they can?
Do you think there is a difference between Bonobos masturbating and men masturbating?

My point is that humans are not just " animals." We may exhibit some similar type of behaviours , but we are way more complex because we can cognate. We could reason and have a certain level of control over sexual responses and other basic body functions.
Because we are humans, control over our sexual response does not necessarily mean restraint, it could mean variation. So we can enjoy sexual pleasure in _unlimited ways_,in which animals cannot.
I


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> In your post you said :
> 
> "...*Actually when it comes to sex most animals are more restrained than we are. We certainly are animals and some of the horniest ones out there*...."
> 
> ...


_I was responding to this:

 Originally Posted by CuddleBug:
*We are not animals, but we can act like them at times, quite badly.*_


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## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I wanted to add my two cents.

As with most guys, the thought of being with two women is exciting - most surprising to me, one night my wife started asking about fantasies, and even though I was reluctant, she kept pushing the issue and actually brought up the idea of a threesome.

I was surprised at some of the thing I heard, but she's "into" it - knowing that we would both be into it, I'm sure we could probably convinced to actually go ahead with it, but it will never happen.

We prefer to keep those fantasies in our minds and talk about them as a way to get more turned on.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

My BF and i just had this discussion today and he said if it was something i wanted he would consider it. I actually only asked if he would to find out. nothing more. I have never and would never share my significant other or myself with anyone outside of the relationship. I can't imagine how insecure it would make me wondering if he thought she was prettier or better in bed and he had the same feelings. If it works for some, good for them but it's not for me.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

happysnappy said:


> My BF and i just had this discussion today and he said if it was something i wanted he would consider it. I actually only asked if he would to find out. nothing more. I have never and would never share my significant other or myself with anyone outside of the relationship. I can't imagine how insecure it would make me wondering if he thought she was prettier or better in bed and he had the same feelings. If it works for some, good for them but it's not for me.


You're only considering it from the perspective of adding another woman to the mix. What if you wanted to have a threesome with your boyfriend and another man. How would he react?

I suspect I already know.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

sandc said:


> You're only considering it from the perspective of adding another woman to the mix. What if you wanted to have a threesome with your boyfriend and another man. How would he react?
> 
> I suspect I already know.


he felt the same way i did about adding a woman to the mix. He said his only exception would be if it was a clone of he or myself so there would not be the question of whether or not the other person was better ROTFL I am blessed to have someone that i can talk to about absolutely anything and get an honest answer.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

happysnappy said:


> he felt the same way i did about adding a woman to the mix. He said his only exception would be if it was a clone of he or myself so there would not be the question of whether or not the other person was better ROTFL I am blessed to have someone that i can talk to about absolutely anything and get an honest answer.


:smthumbup: Yes you are blessed if that is the case.

I feel the same way about my wife and we feel the same way. We'll enjoy the fantasy but it stays a fantasy.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

40isthenew20 said:


> People with open marriages say that it's the greatest thing in the world. All power to them, but I could never live like that. Especially with the mother of my children.


I've heard the same thing, but I have yet to see the proof. I know they refer to it as a "lifestyle" and it's not for everyone, but it seems to me that only swingers have three/foursomes in there marriage. 

Those swingers I've met are all in there mid 40's - 50's. I guess after all that time married (all of them married in there early 20's) they are desperate for some excitement in the bedroom but don't want to let go of there partner,...so they share.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Elliott said:


> I've heard the same thing, but I have yet to see the proof. I know they refer to it as a "lifestyle" and it's not for everyone, but it seems to me that only swingers have three/foursomes in there marriage.
> 
> *Those swingers I've met are all in there mid 40's - 50's. I guess after all that time married (all of them married in there early 20's) they are desperate for some excitement in the bedroom but don't want to let go of there partner,...so they share.*


I also wondered the same thing , along the same lines you are suggesting.
I am thinking that those who say it works for them may be at a particular stage in their marriages and boredom or desperation setting in.
Obviously different people would have different reasons. However ,we human beings are very good at tricking ourselves.
Some of the things we do are actually defence mechanisms kicking in or compensatory drives.
We trick ourselves very easily.

I don't think that people who choose this lifestyle should be looked upon as odd or anything though. I think that just like all of us they have issues in their marriages ,and maybe they choose that lifestyle to " cope."
I'm not sure.
Just trying to make sense of it in marriages , and why it's so risky.
I aslo think that some monogamous couples fool themselves into thinking that kinky sex , or lots of sex would fix their non sexual issues.
They are in the same boat.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

SeaMaiden said:


> My two cents...
> 
> My husband was a swinger with his ex wife. At the time she was in her 30's, he in his 40's, second marriage for her, third for him. He married her on the "rebound" after wife #2, and coming out of a very religious period in his life. Basically he left wife #2 and the church at the same time and went hog wild. He met wife #3 in a bar a couple months after moving out and they had sex that night. Within a few months he had moved in with her. At some point she wanted to get married and he said "why not" (when I asked why he married her, he said he didn't think he could do any better) She was an alcoholic and within a year he had cheated on her because he wasn't "happy". She didn't seem fazed, got mad for a day and then acted like nothing had happened. Sometime after this they "mutually" (so says he) discussed the possibility of swinging after seeing it in some movie. They went to a few house parties they had found on swinger sites and started swapping partners. I asked how he, a man who gets jealous if another man looks at me twice, could watch his wife bang another man, he said he didn't really care... because he didn't really care about her. He THOUGHT he loved her, but says it wasn't really love, it was just his need to be with someone, anyone. They had nothing in common, did things on their own alot, about the only thing they did together was go to swinger parties and clubs. This went on for 3 or 4 years, they even went to a swingers resort in Jamaica.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your 2 cents. I was hoping someone with insight would talk about it.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I have personal experience with this. SeaMaiden did a pretty good job of summarizing it. Search my threads started if you want to know more.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

My husband never asked me to swing but he joined a swinger website and met with several swingers as a single male. I think that swingers who claim that swingers are opposed to cheating are often talking bs. I read some of the messages on their forum where a lot of swingers said they have an idea that a lot of the single men who joined the site are actually married. In my husbands case, he only met with couples late at night and you're telling me that couples don't find it suspicious that the single male can only meet up at midnight or later. Hogwash. There are also a lot is escorts on that swinger website. 

I also think that if some one wants to share their partner then they are just sexually not into them anymore. On one if the forums, a man was asking how to introduce the concept of swinging to his wife because he wants a different woman than her. The advice given to him was bike. One of the other posters said to take her to a sex club and pretend it'd for the couple to share the experience (he says- try not to ogle the eye candy in the room while you're with your wife). It was manipulative and the intention was clear, he wants to have sex with other woman while presenting it as something for he and his wife's benefit. I think some people swing for mutual benefit of both of the couple but by then the couple just isn't in to each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

looking for clarity said:


> *My husband never asked me to swing but he joined a swinger website and met with several swingers as a single male. I think that swingers who claim that swingers are opposed to cheating are often talking bs. I read some of the messages on their forum where a lot of swingers said they have an idea that a lot of the single men who joined the site are actually married. * In my husbands case, he only met with couples late at night and you're telling me that couples don't find it suspicious that the single male can only meet up at midnight or later. Hogwash. There are also a lot is escorts on that swinger website.
> 
> I also think that if some one wants to share their partner then they are just sexually not into them anymore. On one if the forums, a man was asking how to introduce the concept of swinging to his wife because he wants a different woman than her. The advice given to him was bike. One of the other posters said to take her to a sex club and pretend it'd for the couple to share the experience (he says- try not to ogle the eye candy in the room while you're with your wife).* It was manipulative and the intention was clear, he wants to have sex with other woman while presenting it as something for he and his wife's benefit. * I think some people swing for mutual benefit of both of the couple but by then the couple just isn't in to each other.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think your story is interesting.
The part I highlighted interests me , because it's the type of dynamic I envisioned between two people involved in swinging or poly lifestyle.
I think that one partner usually manipulated the other into it, without that other partner even being aware , sometimes.

Also you mentioned the cheating part which I never suspected actually existed, but now I can see it.
I was of the opinion that only couples could join a sex club. 
Obviously I was wrong!

Clearly , you had a bad experience.

Can you post some more about your experience?

How did you find out about his swinging activities since he kept it secret?
What do you think motivated him?


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

We have been together 13 years, married for 6. He never asked me to swing with him as I guess he didn't want me to say no and know he was cheating on me. He left his profile complete with naked pictures open on the computer one day. We had friends over so I couldn't explore it but I saw his username and the name of the website. I then went into denial because I couldn't believe he would cheating and that's another story.

2 months ago I decided I had to know what was going on and so joined that website (you had to), entered the username and he popped up. His picture and description. There was my next big surprise as it claimed he had been with several and bi couples - he had never said anything about been bi. Then I saw the certification tab with seven certifications from couples and when I checked their profiles he had certified them. He claimed he's not bi and did nothing with men (that's a lie, I found emails where he says bi-oral). Turns out he was this way before he met me and purposefully tell me as he didn't think I'd understand or date hjm. He said he's an exhibitionist and wants to be watched so swingers are perfect for that. I told him I am not ok with this but I am staying for now but am disgusted and confused. The deception is mind boggling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

looking for clarity said:


> We have been together 13 years, married for 6. He never asked me to swing with him as I guess he didn't want me to say no and know he was cheating on me. He left his profile complete with naked pictures open on the computer one day. We had friends over so I couldn't explore it but I saw his username and the name of the website. I then went into denial because I couldn't believe he would cheating and that's another story.
> 
> 2 months ago I decided I had to know what was going on and so joined that website (you had to), entered the username and he popped up. His picture and description. There was my next big surprise as it claimed he had been with several and bi couples - he had never said anything about been bi. Then I saw the certification tab with seven certifications from couples and when I checked their profiles he had certified them. He claimed he's not bi and did nothing with men (that's a lie, I found emails where he says bi-oral). Turns out he was this way before he met me and purposefully tell me as he didn't think I'd understand or date hjm. He said he's an exhibitionist and wants to be watched so swingers are perfect for that. I told him I am not ok with this but I am staying for now but am disgusted and confused. The deception is mind boggling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ouuch! Thats a tough one. Its bad enough not telling a partner of a previous situation but to continue it in to a "stable" relationship is really not forgivable at all. (IMO). Waiting 2 months before pushing for answers must have been a difficult time.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

looking for clarity said:


> We have been together 13 years, married for 6. He never asked me to swing with him as I guess he didn't want me to say no and know he was cheating on me. He left his profile complete with naked pictures open on the computer one day. We had friends over so I couldn't explore it but I saw his username and the name of the website. I then went into denial because I couldn't believe he would cheating and that's another story.
> 
> 2 months ago I decided I had to know what was going on and so joined that website (you had to), entered the username and he popped up. His picture and description. There was my next big surprise as it claimed he had been with several and bi couples - he had never said anything about been bi. Then I saw the certification tab with seven certifications from couples and when I checked their profiles he had certified them. He claimed he's not bi and did nothing with men (that's a lie, I found emails where he says bi-oral). Turns out he was this way before he met me and purposefully tell me as he didn't think I'd understand or date hjm. He said he's an exhibitionist and wants to be watched so swingers are perfect for that. I told him I am not ok with this but I am staying for now but am disgusted and confused. The deception is mind boggling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



wow...what a horrible way to find out. I agree to be deceived like that, make you loose all trust towards your spouse. But after 13 years I'm sure you two know how to talk about things. But that's a major hurdle to jump.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

looking for clarity said:


> We have been together 13 years, married for 6. He never asked me to swing with him as I guess he didn't want me to say no and know he was cheating on me. He left his profile complete with naked pictures open on the computer one day. We had friends over so I couldn't explore it but I saw his username and the name of the website. I then went into denial because I couldn't believe he would cheating and that's another story.
> 
> 2 months ago I decided I had to know what was going on and so joined that website (you had to), entered the username and he popped up. His picture and description. There was my next big surprise as it claimed he had been with several and bi couples - he had never said anything about been bi. Then I saw the certification tab with seven certifications from couples and when I checked their profiles he had certified them. He claimed he's not bi and did nothing with men (that's a lie, I found emails where he says bi-oral).* Turns out he was this way before he met me and purposefully tell me as he didn't think I'd understand or date hjm. He said he's an exhibitionist and wants to be watched so swingers are perfect for that. I told him I am not ok with this but I am staying for now but am disgusted and confused. The deception is mind boggling.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

We have never tried. But we had discussed about trying threesome. 

I will not try FMF. I know I am a jealous woman, I can't stand seeing another woman getting my husband's attention. 

I might be fine with MFM. But this man has to be handsome. That's the criteria I have. He has to be Caucasian, handsome, respectful, and interesting. I don't want to have sex with a man who I am not interested in. 

What stops me from trying this is I don't want to lose our marriage. I have a very happy marriage, I just don't want to do anything silly to ruin it. I don't think the excitement we get from trying threesome can be equal to what we might lose. 

I am glad my husband and I on the same page. If we do try it, I have to be comfortable with it. If we don't try it, it's not a big deal.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

greenpearl said:


> *We have never tried. But we had discussed about trying threesome.
> 
> I will not try FMF. I know I am a jealous woman, I can't stand seeing another woman getting my husband's attention.
> *
> ...


The part highlighted just made me laugh!

You see, that's the conundrum I suspect most couples get into first, when the issue initially comes up.

So I'm tempted to ask you a hypothetical question;
Suppose your husband was open to the idea, but was also adamant that he wanted a FMF , if you got the MFM ?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> The part highlighted just made me laugh!
> 
> You see, that's the conundrum I suspect most couples get into first, when the issue initially comes up.
> 
> ...


If you are in a bad marriage, there is no trust, there is no respect, there is no love, trying threesome is the fastest way to end your marriage. There is no point being in a bad relationship anyway. 

But if you are in a good marriage, a happy marriage, there is love, there is respect, there is trust, then it is a different story. To make a threesome work, all three involved have to enjoy it and be comfortable with it. If one of them doesn't feel comfortable, then the other two can't force it to happen, because it shows disrespect. 

My husband and I respect each other a lot, so he won't disregard my feeling. If I say no, then it is no. 

My husband and I both know the marriage we have is happy and difficult to find, we don't want to do anything silly to ruin what we have. He doesn't want me to stray away, and I don't want to stray away either. He might think trying a threesome won't hurt our marriage because he is confident about himself, but I am not confident about myself. I told him if we try threesome(it has to be MFM), I might become emotionally detached to him, he is very worried about that, he doesn't want this to happen. And my criteria is pretty high. How can you find a handsome Caucasian who wants to try threesome in an Asian country? It's not easy. Of course, we are not trying hard to find the match. 

So, we probably will never try this. It's only a fantasy. A short term excitement. If what you might lose will be much more than what you might get, then we all know what the answer is.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

My husband never asked me for threesomes but I had often told Joni would never do one with either a male or a female. I'm not bi and have no interest in other women. I have no interest in been with another man or woman as I'm married and love my husband. I do have a 20 month old son and this is why I'm contemplating staying. 

My true opinion is that people who engage in threesomes are just not that sexually into each other anymore. I think a lot of people who engage in threesomes have psychological issues. I want no part of them. My husband knew this so he did them without my consent.

Btw he's an exhibitionist, not a swinger. He uses swingers to get his jollies off as he can be watched. He also met with swingers as he doesn't want to find someone else and swingers are in relationships and not looking for emotional attachments.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We've tried a lot of things over the years, and have always had an extraordinarily good relationship and excellent sex life. In the beginning, we were in a very successful poly-N relationship for a while. Then we were monogamous for many years. For several years after that we tried swinging (couple swap, MFM, FMF, etc.), and had a great time and some amazing experiences. Most of the last two years we gave up swinging and had an open relationship. Recently we decided that - as much fun as it has all been and as much as we've learned and grown individually, sexually, and as a couple - we would return to monogamy for the foreseeable future. No one else has ever been quite as exciting as we are together, and we've come to appreciate each other even more.

We've never had any significant jealousy issues or other problems from all this. The minor issues that arose became opportunities for communication and personal growth, as we dealt with everything together. We've been happy in each other's happy experiences (compersion). And we've met many other couples (hundreds) who have comparable relationships and experiences - and a few who tried it but couldn't deal with the emotions that arose.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If i said to my wifee, marriage is just a piece of paper, we are all animals, lets do a 3 or 4 some, anything goes, she would do the following:

KICK MY SORRY ASS OUT THE DOOR!!!

My wife's father is an atheist and her mother is god fearing, so she has a middle of look on things in life. But even with that in mind, if I said the above, she would still, KICK MY SORRY ASS OUT THE DOOR!!!

People must make their moral choice, to get married and what it really stands for, or nit pick and talk their way out of everything, make excuses and do whatever pops into their heads.

Moral free will and choice in the end. Some use it and some just don't.....


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

Interesting thread....

My wife and I had this discussion a while back (after drinking a full bottle of wine) and we both never had threesomes while we were single. I regret not having one and she does too.

Now that we are married, we joked about who we would want involved in our fantasy threesome. I want a FMF and my wife wants the opposite! We ever went further and made up ground rules to follow... ie no messing up the hair 

Of course it is just a fantasy and something we AGREED to NEVER do because ultimately it would destroy or drastically change our marriage. 

A boy can still dream though


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

lol,
If I even attempt to raise this idea with my wife she will clobber it right back into my subconscious with her * trusted * 
Rachel Ray Red ,enamel frying pan.


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

My husband of 4 years and I have had a version of a threesome, while we were married. It was a very unique situation. To really understand, you need to know that I am bisexual and while we don't consider ourselves to have an open marriage, I am allowed to have a girlfriend on the side. There are rules and boundaries that go along with that which we have BOTH agreed to. That said, I also don't date anyone my husband doesn't approve of. And I don't date more than one lady at a time. 

My husband and I are active in our local kink community, and having multiple "play partners" or relationships is common. For us, we have no desire to include another man. I have no interest in men other than my husband. He has no interest in screwing another woman. Our "threesome" was different because my husband and my girlfriend at the time did not have sex. We kind of all played around together, which was fine with me, but one of our strictest rules is there is to be no sex between whoever I am dating and my husband. 

My husband allows me to see other women BECAUSE I am bi. If I were not bisexual, we would not have ever had a threesome. As it stands, I am, and he enjoys watching me with another woman. 

This is the only scenario in which we ever play with another person. We don't do it casually, we don't include men, and there is limited activity between my gf and my dh - very limited.

Now, that said....the girl I was seeing didn't work out because she developed feelings for my husband as well. And that is a deal breaker for me. My husband is mine alone. 

My opinion is, it's not for everyone. It may not be for anyone. But if you decide to try it, the only way it can work is with a lot of prior thought, HONEST communication, and with a set our boundaries you BOTH agree to.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm bi but I have no desire to be with any woman since my husband rocks my world completely and we both refuse to share each other in the least.

We have a kinky lifestyle that is all centered around monogamy.


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm bi but I have no desire to be with any woman since my husband rocks my world completely and we both refuse to share each other in the least.
> 
> We have a kinky lifestyle that is all centered around monogamy.


By all means I don't want it to sound like I NEED a girlfriend to be satisfied. My husband is my everything and my priority. I've dated a handful of women since we've been married and because of my strong attachment to my husband, none of them have worked out. I am not and do not actively LOOK for someone to date. 

I do worry about hurting my H with the him sharing me thing. But I constantly keep him in the loop, ask for his opinion, and try to get his honest feelings about the situations with other women. My husband, while he would be very very unhappy and jealous to see me with another man - which I don't even desire, truly does enjoy me enjoying other women. He says it's like having live porn in his bedroom haha


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You are kidding yourself if you don't think this will eventually tear down your marriage. Especially since you play and he doesn't.


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are kidding yourself if you don't think this will eventually tear down your marriage. Especially since you play and he doesn't.


Thank you for your opinion. Since you don't know the ins and outs of our lifestyle, rules and agreed upon boundaries, I can see why you would think that. I guess time will tell, but I can tell you now, neither of us is going anywhere without the other.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

True, I don't know your particular agreed upon rules. But I have lived an alternative lifestyle before, so I do have experience with it, including with committed partners.

When I was in that lifestyle, I can easily say NOW, I was fooling myself, the same way you sound like you are doing. 

At the time I was in your shoes, I felt very solid in my thinking.

Now I realize I was in a fog.

Your mileage may vary, but you are putting your marriage at risk just to find out if it will or not.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> True, I don't know your particular agreed upon rules. But I have lived an alternative lifestyle before, so I do have experience with it, including with committed partners.
> 
> When I was in that lifestyle, I can easily say NOW, I was fooling myself, the same way you sound like you are doing.
> 
> ...


That's interesting that you see it that way. We have been in and out of various alternative lifestyles and were always conscious and questioning about it before, during, and after. I don't think there was any fog at the time, and now that it's in the past we still don't see any such effect. I think we were solid in our thinking then, and still are.

I don't doubt that what you say is true for you. However, I don't think you can project your experiences and conclusions on anyone else. Certainly, some people come to realizations later that they made a mistake, and it's good to warn people that this can happen, but it's by no means assured, and from our experience, it's not even common. I've seen very few relationships negatively affected by this that weren't in trouble to begin with.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There are literally thousands of threads on websites detailing the experiences of people for whom swinging has gone wrong, caused divorce and hard feelings, and destroyed lives.

If you haven't read those, you simply must not want to see the other side of that lifestyle. It is all there. There are so many more failures at it than success stories.

If you want to say "the failures were marriages that were already in trouble" I'm just going to respond to that by saying there is NO marriage anywhere that is iron-clad against failure.

All I can say is that my husband is so much better of a lover than anyone else I've ever experienced, male or female (and I've had my share)...that I truly have no unmet sexual needs and no desire or curiosity about other people. 

Do you think that people in the lifestyle have ever considered just how kinky and intimate Hardcore Monogamy can be? I invite you to read my blog.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> There are literally thousands of threads on websites detailing the experiences of people for whom swinging has gone wrong, caused divorce and hard feelings, and destroyed lives.
> 
> If you haven't read those, you simply must not want to see the other side of that lifestyle. It is all there. There are so many more failures at it than success stories.
> 
> ...


Perhaps. Of course, you don't see threads from the hundreds of thousands of people for whom it worked out well - they're too busy having fun, or have moved on to other things without significant issues.

My wife is so much better than anyone else, too. It's like having filet mignon every night. However, sometimes I just want chicken! 

Many of the people I know in the lifestyle have great sex lives apart from sex with others. It's just an extra adventure, and you can experience things with one or two extra people that you can't as a couple. I will agree that monogamy can be wonderful, thrilling, exciting, and even kinky if that floats your boat - been there, done that, and keep coming back to it ourselves, so we know what you mean.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, I have read all those threads about people who are into it...remember, I was into it, too. I know people personally.

Please don't attempt to educate me on what it is about, what it is like, what it is for, etc. Also please realize I'm not judging you...I have no moral objection to swinging. I just value my marriage and my husband and our monogamy so much more than anything swinging could offer me. But then again, I am married to a Sex God.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SteppingStones said:


> My husband of 4 years and I have had a version of a threesome, while we were married. It was a very unique situation. To really understand, you need to know that I am bisexual and while we don't consider ourselves to have an open marriage, I am allowed to have a girlfriend on the side. There are rules and boundaries that go along with that which we have BOTH agreed to. That said, I also don't date anyone my husband doesn't approve of. And I don't date more than one lady at a time.
> 
> My husband and I are active in our local kink community, and having multiple "play partners" or relationships is common. For us, we have no desire to include another man. I have no interest in men other than my husband. He has no interest in screwing another woman. Our "threesome" was different because my husband and my girlfriend at the time did not have sex. We kind of all played around together, which was fine with me, but one of our strictest rules is there is to be no sex between whoever I am dating and my husband.
> 
> ...


I've never been involved in this lifestyle so my perspective and questioning is just from that of a neutral observer.
I get from what you are saying that you and your husband FULLY AGREE to this lifestyle. You are BI , he is hetro, and he allows you to have girlfriends on the side.
Also you and your husband have " partial " threesomes with your girlfriend , but he is not allowed to have sex with her, but you can.
So your husband is getting to fulfil his voyeuristic fantasies via your sapphic love trysts.
Am i correct?
What comes to my mind is the future.
You absolutely don't want to share our husband with another woman even though he allows you to have other lovers .
What would happen if he decided sometime in the future, that he too wanted to get a lover on the side?
Has it ever crossed your mind, and if it has how would both of you approach a problem like that?
Both of you have been married for 4 years.
How many years in your marriage have you all been actively living this kind of arrangement?

What are some of its pitfalls in your relationship and how did you all overcome it?
What guarantee do you have or why do you think / feel that your living and enjoying this lifestyle at this moment, that it would continue to be fulfilling and eventually be more successful than those who have tried it and suffered for it?


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## havenrose33 (Aug 7, 2013)

Having made the mistake of trying the *threesome* idea. I can tell you that it was by far the worst mistake of my life. It forever has changed me as a person. I also feel it has had a huge impact on my marriage. If not for a night of drinking way too much, I would never have allowed myself to get involved. As for my husband, I think he would be more than willing to do it again. I cannot and will not ever get over how much of myself I truly lost on that one night. My advice to anyone considering a threesome.....don't do it, unless you are willing to lose the person you love.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

One of the reasons I started this thread was to get answers on what's the almost irresistible lure of the threesome / swinging lifestyle.

Obviously, some people will be for it and some against.

However what I'm interested in finding out from those interested, is why, given the risks associated with it.
I'm trying to find out if the pleasures far outweigh the risks , in their opinion , or are the risks generally downplayed , so that both participants can just simply , enjoy the moment.

For sure, I know that to be married and living that lifestyle , must first take a certain mindset.
Jealousy and insecurity must first be controlled.
Many who have participated so far say that in order for it to be successful , a couple must first be very secure in their relationship.
However my thinking is that a relationship really can only exist in the "now" so security of tenure in that relationship is relative to that, in my opinion.
Feelings change , people change.

Almost all who have tried it and failed say that they have deep regrets , and the warn everybody against it.

I am not into sharing my wife with anybody and I know that she's not interested in sharing me either. So this lifestyle doesn't appeal to us.

But the reality is that there are lots of married people living that type of lifestyle _successfully_.
So the question must be how come?
What makes theirs work , and others fail so miserably?
Is it just open communication?
Is it that certain personality traits make it easier in some cases and harder in others?
Or is it that the term " successful marriage " in this context, is relative?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CM - what makes you think there are "lots" of couples doing this "successfully"? Most of them end up divorced if married, and moving on with other partners if not married. How is that "success"?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> One of the reasons I started this thread was to get answers on what's the almost irresistible lure of the threesome / swinging lifestyle.
> 
> Obviously, some people will be for it and some against.
> 
> ...


I don't know anybody who has tried it. From what I read on TAM, more failures than success. But I view TAM not an objective place for this kind of information. It's not even an objective place for marriages. Because most of the TAM members are people who have issues in their marriages. 

I think maybe for some people it can work because their personality can handle it. 

And I think maybe their term " successful marriage" is different from ours.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> CM - what makes you think there are "lots" of couples doing this "successfully"? Most of them end up divorced if married, and moving on with other partners if not married. How is that "success"?


Faithful,
I don't have any figures , neither have I done any in depth research. I'm just going based on what has been expressed quite a few times on this thread by those involved in it.

At least two posters on this thread who are involved in it , said that they've been together with their partner for quite a while.
One has been married for 17 years.
The other isn't married as yet, but he is a very regular poster on TAM , and has been in a long term relationship with his SO for quite a few years. They are currently involved in that type of lifestyle, he gave details. 
His posts on TAM offer very sound relationship advice to people in monogamous relationships and he does not promote his lifestyle here on TAM.
But he came out on this thread and explained his lifestyle and how they manage it. I asked him , on this thread if after they got married , would they still continue with it, and he said that he was not sure, lol.
But I get his point of view.
Also quite a few people who have not posted here , PM'ed me over the course of this thread and told me that they have been married for sometime and they are currently involved in that lifestyle.
For obvious reasons, they didn't want to post on the thread, because the discussion was heated at times.

So when I say " successful " I use it in that context.
That's why I ask these questions.
Everyone just seems to have a different viewpoint on it, but I'm thinking that logically, it must have something to do with personality types to a great extent and their definition of successful to a lesser extent.
Between those two poles, there is an entire spectrum permutations and combinations.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

greenpearl said:


> I think maybe for some people it can work because their personality can handle it.
> 
> And I think maybe their term " successful marriage" is different from ours.


Agreed.
But do you think it can actually * work?*

I remember in your post yesterday you mentioned specifics that you thought might make it " workable " in your marriage.
In other words it remains a fantasy for you and your H.
But theoretically , if all the conditions were met in your case, how long do you think such an arrangement would " work" before it starts affecting the dynamics of your marriage for worse?

Or do you think it would only get better?

Just a hypothetical question , to establish your benchmark of 
" successfulness " as a couple involved in it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Agreed.
> But do you think it can actually * work?*
> 
> I remember in your post yesterday you mentioned specifics that you thought might make it " workable " in your marriage.
> ...


CM, 

For this, I really have no experience. Will it be workable in our marriage? I really have no clue. I wish it would work, but I don't think I want to risk our marriage for the fun of trying it. 

The excitement might spice up our sex life for a short term, but like I said, it's only for a short term. It's not like that I can have two husbands at the same time for ever. If I know clearly it's only for a short period of time, do I really want to try it? I doubt it. 

As to me, a successful threesome means that your marriage is still solid and you love only each other. It's the same before and after you try it. There is no bad feeling left. 

We have to understand here that humans are imperfect, they are not able to control what is happening around them even though they think they can. We think that we can control our emotions, but actually we can't. Trying threesome involves emotions, and that's what stops me from trying it. Because I know I can't control my emotions.


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> I've never been involved in this lifestyle so my perspective and questioning is just from that of a neutral observer.
> I get from what you are saying that you and your husband FULLY AGREE to this lifestyle. You are BI , he is hetro, and he allows you to have girlfriends on the side.
> Also you and your husband have " partial " threesomes with your girlfriend , but he is not allowed to have sex with her, but you can.
> So your husband is getting to fulfil his voyeuristic fantasies via your sapphic love trysts.
> ...


You are correct in summation. We have been in the lifestyle for 2 years. Our lifestyle isn't a swinger one, it's mostly based in BDSM and kink. With that kind of lifestyle, there are inherent risks and potential pitfalls and we both entered into it completely aware. I do not feel either of us is blinded by the moment, the passion, the excitement, or whatever else. It's different from the mainstream type of relationship, but we aren't exactly fit for that kind of relationship. Honestly, if we had a very "vanilla" marriage, I'm not sure either of us would be satisfied. Me having a girlfriend on the side, stemmed from our involvement in our local bdsm/kink community (of which there are hundreds of people involved just locally where I live) and my bisexuality. 

You ask about the future, whether my husband would want another partner and how we would handle that. For us, there is an inherent difference between me having a male and a female partner and my husband having two female partners. And that is the fact that I am bi and he is not. I love my husband dearly and he always comes first regardless - any woman I date comes into the relationship knowing that fully. Most women I have dated also have a relationship with a man and neither of us are each other's primary partners. 

So I enjoy male anatomy. I also enjoy female anatomy. That is not something my husband can give me, obviously, except by letting me date other women. He on the other hand, only enjoys female anatomy. I give him that, I satisfy whatever need he has from a female counterpart. For him to have ANOTHER woman would not really provide anything for him that I can not already give him. At least the way we see it. Now if my husband was bi and he had an interest in another man, sure, I'd let him explore that because I can not give him that experience myself. But for him to have another woman is not within our guidelines for each other. Same as I am not allowed to have other men. Not that I want any 

This lifestyle may not always appeal to us. It may not last through the birth of our first child, which we are expecting in February. In fact, although I've had two serious girlfriends in the past two years and have gone on dates with several others, we've only ever had the one "partial" threesome. It's not integral to our relationship. It's not something we seek out. Typically my relationships with other women just happen, the same way any relationship might. Some work out for a time and some never take off. My husband though, is my HUSBAND, I chose him for life. Does that mean I care less about my girlfriends? Maybe it does. I still care for them and I can even love them, but they will never be my #1. If they don't understand or can't live with that, then I don't date them. 

What guarantee do I have? None. I have the same guarantee that the monogamous couple down the street have. I have the same guarantee that the wife who thinks her husband would never cheat on her and then finds out differently has. None of us has any guarantee. All we have is trust, open and honest communication, and love. 

How do I know I'm not actively destroying my future marriage? Because only I and my husband know the dynamic we have, what works for us, and how we feel about each other.

Not everyone is wired for multiple partners, casual or long term. Just like you may enjoy anal and I might not. It works for you but maybe not for me, because I'm just not wired that way. The capability to love more than one person at a time (polyamory) is a wiring thing. So, I 100% agree that if you and your spouse are purely monogamously wired, you should not include others in your relationship. That WOULD be destructive. My husband and I are just wired a bit differently - and lucky that we found each other.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

I get the fact "different strokes for different folks", however, in my life, my wife is the most precious thing in it. To share her with someone else on a sexual level just totally seems disrespectful. It lacks integrity and is absolutely dishonourable. If she were to go with another man, that would be it for me. She would become used and tainted. The same goes for her about me. Another partners means the end of our marriage and our home and our family. DONE. I have an ex-wife that thought an open marriage was a good thing. When I found out, that hurt me more than anything. She has been gone now for nearly 25 years. I still feel the pain of that discovery. 

To me, swinging, threesomes and polyamoury in general, is just plain dirty and disrespectful and untrustworthy as I have issues with trust for those that do partake in these twisted lifestyle.

My God, what has happened to loyalty and setting a good moral example to our young? 

But that's just my opinion.


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## hereinthemidwest (Oct 7, 2010)

I know this thread was along time ago...My dearest friend ended her life because of this. Her husband badgered all the time. She felt if she didn't go alone he would find someone who would. After words...she didn't want too and he did. She could not handle it. 

PLEASE I am not herE to judge...BOTH PARTIES NEED TO WANT THIS....RIP my BEAUTIFUL FRIEND...No one knows the pain expect you. NO ONE will ever hurt you again.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

That's very sad, hereinthemidwest. 

I have heard and personally witnessed many very sad stories with lives destroyed.

In my case...I am not ashamed of my past...I very much cherish that time in my life, and the people I was involved with. I was in a fog as to how such a lifestyle might affect the rest of my life, but that doesn't mean I regret it. I just feel completely differently now, and my current feelings are based on a much higher level of awareness. Part of that awareness was gained by having that alternate lifestyle. I had to see it and live it to really understand it. I like walking on the edge...and my past is very colorful and lovely to me.

But I can say now...living a life of hardcore monogamy with strict boundaries to protect my marriage to the man of my dreams, is by and far so much more intimate, rewarding AND sexual, than anything I ever witnessed in the alternate lifestyle community (which in my case included the poly community, the BDSM community, and the LBGT community). 

There is something so amazingly sexual about choosing a monogamous lifestyle...or at least, the way we do it is.

My husband also has a colorful past and has been involved in these communites. He tells me that nothing in that lifestyle can compare to what we have for him either.

I think part of what lures people into that lifestyle has to do with needing validation.

When you are self-validated, you no longer need other people to "want you" in order to know you are sexy and desireable.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

hereinthemidwest said:


> I know this thread was along time ago...My dearest friend ended her life because of this. Her husband badgered all the time. She felt if she didn't go alone he would find someone who would. After words...she didn't want too and he did. She could not handle it.
> 
> PLEASE I am not herE to judge...BOTH PARTIES NEED TO WANT THIS....RIP my BEAUTIFUL FRIEND...No one knows the pain expect you. NO ONE will ever hurt you again.


My deepest condolences to you. My heart aches for you.

What a crying shame.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

greenpearl said:


> CM,
> 
> For this, I really have no experience. Will it be workable in our marriage? I really have no clue. I wish it would work, but I don't think I want to risk our marriage for the fun of trying it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply and your honesty.
I especially like how you ended in the last paragraph. I think we are both on the same page in that respect.
Emotions are not to be trifled with in mature relationships.

Whilst I understand that all relationships involves a bit of the unknown ,IMO, swinging , threesomes and so on may actually be increasing the odds failure in the great unknown.
Like Pandora's box, there may be good things , but some bad WILL also come out , and there's no way to get take it back.

But everyone has a different view , hence this discussion.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Whilst I understand that all relationships involves a bit of the unknown ,IMO, swinging , threesomes and so on may actually be increasing the odds failure in the great unknown.
> Like Pandora's box, there may be good things , but some bad WILL also come out , and there's no way to get take it back.
> 
> But everyone has a different view , hence this discussion.


Like any activity, there's a risk/reward balance, and that balance will be different for every one, as will the risks and rewards of any particular activity and for the person engaging in the activity. The more informed you are, the better decisions you can make, but there is always the element of surprise, and things you can't anticipate. Emotions can surprise you and not be anticipated - they are often only triggered by an actual experience, no matter how good your imagination.

However, you can discuss and reflect on how you will deal with whatever arises, and that preparation helps shield against the worst effects if negative emotions are triggered. And yes, they are, sometimes, yet most people in the lifestyle have dealt with them and moved on somehow to enjoy the activities. Those that can't or won't deal with them drop out, some with other negative consequences, and some without.

We had some negative experiences and emotions, but were prepared to deal with them. They were an opportunity to do some self-examination and grow individually and as a couple - and that's exactly what we did with it. So, we took the negatives and made them into positives - some people do not. A very, very few have severe consequences - that's very atypical, however, from what I've seen and heard. Often, though, it's not the experience or activity itself, it's the individual's perception of it that creates the issue.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think part of what lures people into that lifestyle has to do with needing validation.
> 
> When you are self-validated, you no longer need other people to "want you" in order to know you are sexy and desireable.


I agree fully with this.
But the tricky part is that not everyone is at that level of self actualization.
People tend to form bonds along common needs and desires.
Some couples are so compatible that they actually grow together. Technically I can see this lifestyle working for such a couple until they eventually grow out of it, or maybe they won't and grow apart. Therein lies the risk.
I used to know this girl who was a " working girl" or a high priced escort. Very beautiful and smart girl , who lived a seemingly " normal" life with her boyfriend.
Talking to her, she told me that she didn't plan to stay in it after she reached a certain age.
She wanted to get married and have kids.
She managed her money well. I asked her about the pitfalls of her choice , and if her boyfriend wasn't jealous.
She said he was not the jealous type ,and he knew what she was doing.[ I guess he liked that she bought him cars and expensive gifts and paid the rent etc.]
But one thing that stuck with me, was when she said that she doesn't feel emotionally close to him when they have sex , and she thought it was because of her job. But she saw it as a 
" temporary situation " that could be fixed later when she stopped.
However , her life turned upside down a little later when she found out that he was cheating on her with one of her friends.
Everything went haywire.
She suffered emotionally, and she couldn't keep herself together. She eventually stopped " working."

So that's the point I'm trying to make.
As human beings we make our choices and take our chances based on the hands of cards we have, but we never know what the future holds, and there are rules.
Some people break the rules and win, others break the rules and suffer dearly for it.
I may not always obey the rules , but personally, I think I like the idea of increasing the odds of winning.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Like any activity, there's a risk/reward balance, and that balance will be different for every one, as will the risks and rewards of any particular activity and for the person engaging in the activity. The more informed you are, the better decisions you can make, but there is always the element of surprise, and things you can't anticipate. Emotions can surprise you and not be anticipated - they are often only triggered by an actual experience, no matter how good your imagination.
> 
> However, you can discuss and reflect on how you will deal with whatever arises, and that preparation helps shield against the worst effects if negative emotions are triggered. And yes, they are, sometimes, yet most people in the lifestyle have dealt with them and moved on somehow to enjoy the activities. Those that can't or won't deal with them drop out, some with other negative consequences, and some without.
> 
> We had some negative experiences and emotions, but were prepared to deal with them. They were an opportunity to do some self-examination and grow individually and as a couple - and that's exactly what we did with it. So, we took the negatives and made them into positives - some people do not. A very, very few have severe consequences - that's very atypical, however, from what I've seen and heard. Often, though, it's not the experience or activity itself, it's the individual's perception of it that creates the issue.


I think I'm getting what you're saying.
It's almost like walking a tightrope together and trying with every step to keep your balance.
It gives an exhilarating feeling ,almost a " high "?
Everytime you resolve the negativity together, it gives you the confidence that it can be done, and because you did it together, it strengthens your bond.
Am I correct ?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I think I'm getting what you're saying.
> It's almost like walking a tightrope together and trying with every step to keep your balance.
> It gives an exhilarating feeling ,almost a " high "?
> Everytime you resolve the negativity together, it gives you the confidence that it can be done, and because you did it together, it strengthens your bond.
> Am I correct ?


Not quite, but your analogy is very good just the same, just replace the tightrope to a fairly wide path (as it - swinging - wasn't particularly dangerous for us, nor was it an unstable situation - _we_ would be fine no matter what). The high had more to do with the personal growth, but yes, working on that together did strengthen our bond and mutual understanding greatly. Either of us could have vetoed continuing at any time.

We'd previously been in an exclusive, committed poly relationship, which felt very natural for us. Eventually our secondaries both found their own primary relationships, and after several happy years of monogamy, we decided to try swinging. That was a totally different situation for us, and that's where we had to explore our limits and deal with personal growth issues (such as minor jealousy) and defining for ourselves what truly made our relationship special and wonderful - it was never in doubt that it was, but putting it into words was a great exercise to do together at an even deeper level than before.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Like any activity, there's a risk/reward balance, and that balance will be different for every one, as will the risks and rewards of any particular activity and for the person engaging in the activity. The more informed you are, the better decisions you can make, but there is always the element of surprise, and things you can't anticipate. Emotions can surprise you and not be anticipated - they are often only triggered by an actual experience, no matter how good your imagination.
> 
> However, you can discuss and reflect on how you will deal with whatever arises, and that preparation helps shield against the worst effects if negative emotions are triggered. And yes, they are, sometimes, yet most people in the lifestyle have dealt with them and moved on somehow to enjoy the activities. Those that can't or won't deal with them drop out, some with other negative consequences, and some without.
> 
> We had some negative experiences and emotions, but were prepared to deal with them. They were an opportunity to do some self-examination and grow individually and as a couple - and that's exactly what we did with it. So, we took the negatives and made them into positives - some people do not. A very, very few have severe consequences - that's very atypical, however, from what I've seen and heard. Often, though, it's not the experience or activity itself, it's the individual's perception of it that creates the issue.


Can someone please explain to me how negotiated infidelity leads to personal growth? That's what swinging and threesomes are - negotiated infidelity. I don't care how you justify or validate it, its still infidelity, so please explain how that is personal growth. I see infidelity more as personal degradation, but what do I know.:scratchhead:


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

old_soldier said:


> Can someone please explain to me how negotiated infidelity leads to personal growth? That's what swinging and threesomes are - negotiated infidelity. I don't care how you justify or validate it, its still infidelity, so please explain how that is personal growth. I see infidelity more as personal degradation, but what do I know.:scratchhead:



You are absolutely right on this :smthumbup:

Today, many couples don't respect what marriage is really all about. They do whatever sexual act they want, regardless, and justify it away and say its all good. Adultery is still adultery, no matter how you slice it.

If couples want to have open dating relationships, that's one thing, but when you tie the knot and say "I do", now the adultery and infidelity comes to a stop and you grow up and become adults.

In sickness and in health, rich or poor, good times and bad, etc., not I want another man or woman, etc.....really?! Then stay single and have your orgies and be the animal you want to be.

Funny how many here talk their way out of everything, to justify away cheating, adultery and infidelity while being married!!! Just sad.


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## havenrose33 (Aug 7, 2013)

old_soldier said:


> Can someone please explain to me how negotiated infidelity leads to personal growth? That's what swinging and threesomes are - negotiated infidelity. I don't care how you justify or validate it, its still infidelity, so please explain how that is personal growth. I see infidelity more as personal degradation, but what do I know.:scratchhead:


Having made the HUGE mistake of allowing *negotiated infidelity* to happen within my marriage, I can tell you.......I didn't feel one ounce of personal growth. I felt horrible, degraded and less than human. I don't need, nor do I want anyone else in my marriage. My husband made it clear for many, many years that he wanted to try swinging. I finally gave in and it came very close to destroying our then 25 year marriage.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Not quite, but your analogy is very good just the same, just replace the tightrope to a fairly wide path (as it - swinging - wasn't particularly dangerous for us, nor was it an unstable situation - _we_ would be fine no matter what). The high had more to do with the personal growth, but yes, working on that together did strengthen our bond and mutual understanding greatly. Either of us could have vetoed continuing at any time.
> 
> *We'd previously been in an exclusive, committed poly relationship, which felt very natural for us.* Eventually our secondaries both found their own primary relationships, and after several happy years of monogamy, we decided to try swinging. That was a totally different situation for us, and that's where we had to explore our limits and deal with personal growth issues (such as minor jealousy) and defining for ourselves what truly made our relationship special and wonderful - it was never in doubt that it was, but putting it into words was a great exercise to do together at an even deeper level than before.



Thank you for your response and insights into your marriage.

I think I am getting a clearer picture.
Both you and your wife came from a Poly background , hence logically, your progression into this present sexual arrangement is almost natural.

I have stated before of my bias against swinger type lifestyle, and I am not debating the rightness or wrongness of it. I believe everyone make their choices.
However In my opinion I think that polyamorus relationship model is one of the most confusing models for any type of personal relationship. The downfall of the model is that it is based on a concept that jealousy is the by product of a social construct , and that in order for a person's emotional needs to be completely met, an infinite amount of lovers are needed , each supplying a different need at different times.
I believe both concepts are seriously flawed.
Jealousy is a natural , human emotion like love, anger ,sadness, empathy etc., and needs are met in a relationship as both partners experience personal growth.

But from what you and your wife are expressing about your past relationship [ poly ] and present arrangement [ her casual same sex sex contacts], it seems to me that both of you slowly weaning yourselves out of that lifestyle back into a monogamous one.
It appears to me that there is growth in that direction.
Am I correct?
I did recall where she posted yesterday that after giving birth to her child she is willing to reconsider her extra marital same sex relationships.
So could it be that this is the direction your relationship may eventually take?
Do you think that it may be a possibility?

I'm saying this because at present your are monogamous with her , coming from a Poly background and she seems open to the idea that this lifestyle may not always appeal to both of you.

Here's what she posted:

" _This lifestyle may not always appeal to us. It may not last through the birth of our first child, which we are expecting in February_."

Also I'm aware that some people in these type of relationships constantly re-evaluate their relationship so that feelings are always expressed and
" negative " ones are dealt with.

[ lol , I can only imagine how stressful that would have been in a Poly arrangement!]


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Thank you for your response and insights into your marriage.
> 
> I think I am getting a clearer picture.
> Both you and your wife came from a Poly background , hence logically, your progression into this present sexual arrangement is almost natural.
> ...


I think you are confusing us as a couple. I am not the wife of the previous poster...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"A very, very few have severe consequences - that's very atypical, however, from what I've seen and heard. Often, though, it's not the experience or activity itself, it's the individual's perception of it that creates the issue."

It is completely untrue that only a very, very few have severe consequences, it is not atypical, it is the norm. And nice trying to make it sound like some flaw in the individual rather than the activity...that is lame and blame shifting for no reason. 

Go to any swingers or poly forum and you'll see thread after thread full of jealousy and cheating and unhappy people.

IMO, swinging and poly is taking advantage of other people during weak periods of their lives. Just because you (anyone who swings) might have had a good experience, doesn't mean that you didn't add to the emotional downfall to those you experienced it with. You don't get to decide the outcome of another person, yet you do hold the responsibility for hurting people...and being hurt is what happens all the time.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

havenrose33 said:


> Having made the HUGE mistake of allowing *negotiated infidelity* to happen within my marriage, I can tell you.......I didn't feel one ounce of personal growth. I felt horrible, degraded and less than human. I don't need, nor do I want anyone else in my marriage. My husband made it clear for many, many years that he wanted to try swinging. I finally gave in and it came very close to destroying our then 25 year marriage.


Exactly:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SteppingStones said:


> I think you are confusing us as a couple. I am not the wife of the previous poster...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please accept my apology,I'm very sorry!
I actually thought you two were married to each other!
My sincerest apologies to both of you.


But I'm glad you posted.
Based on what you posted yesterday , and the part I reproduced in my above post, is it that you are considering leaving the lifestyle behind when your baby arrives next year?

If so , why?

Do you think that having a baby will complicate the external relationship, or do you feel that your baby would be fulfilling a higher emotional part of you?


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## SteppingStones (Dec 20, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Please accept my apology,I'm very sorry!
> I actually thought you two were married to each other!
> My sincerest apologies to both of you.
> 
> ...


No worries - we seem to have similar stories so I can see why you'd think we were a married couple. 

The reason I said the lifestyle may not suit us anymore after the birth of our child is because, as I've stated previously, my husband (and my family) is my #1 priority. I simply do not think there will be time for me to explore a relationship outside of the one I have with my husband. I have never taken time away from my husband and family to be with another woman. Date nights were always coordinated with my husband's schedule and when he would have guys nights with friends, I'd have my girls night - same as any couple might do, I just happened to be dating the girl I was with. 

But I can see that the addition of a little one is going to place a higher demand on my time and attention than already exists. So I am fully prepared to leave the lifestyle behind. The poly lifestyle...not the bdsm/kink lifestyle, which I and my husband practice exclusively together. 

Being poly was never something we NEEDED. Our relationship can stand on its own without the added "spice" of a third. My husband encouraged me to explore my bisexuality and we both enjoyed it. But we also can recognize when the time comes to put it behind us.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SteppingStones said:


> But I can see that the addition of a little one is going to place a higher demand on my time and attention than already exists. So I am fully prepared to leave the lifestyle behind. The poly lifestyle...not the bdsm/kink lifestyle, which I and my husband practice exclusively together.
> 
> Being poly was never something we NEEDED. Our relationship can stand on its own without the added "spice" of a third. My husband encouraged me to explore my bisexuality and we both enjoyed it. But we also can recognize when the time comes to put it behind us.


Appreciate your response.
But it appears to me that over the course of time your relationship has grown from one stage to another. In all honesty, both of you seem to be very lucky. Some couples never get through it, or land on the other side safely.

Your story is very interesting indeed!
Best wishes to you and your husband in the future , and I wish a safe delivery to your young [ expected ] one.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

It's emotionally draining and it left me feeling empty, ashamed, and ugly inside. I went in it, because I was insecure. That's the main reason. Have been hurt so many times in my life that I'm not as confident as I used to be. Now, I need constant validation, and I have to restrain myself from being a people pleaser. I do have help, so I'll get by.

We made so many mistakes. We hadn't set proper boundaries, we broke rules, jealousy, etc. Main problem was that we involved a married person in the last half year. That's caused a lot of **** that's not worth going into.

I feel so empty. I'm getting a bad attitude. Starting to hate myself, being irritable, angry, blah. Haven't been this depressed in years.

I'm spending way too much time on this forum this past month. Way too depressed, but I'll slip away slowly, get my head back into life, and stop running away from life's problems like I usually do.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

I don't have any interest in a threesome and neither does my wife but I just had an encounter with a half Japanese gal that was a scorcher in the sack despite claiming to be primarily into women, and who has a live-in girlfriend. 

The wife was up to speed via text messages and had no problem with it. I showed the gal my text messages as I made them. She claimed her girlfriend is not jealous of men, but is jealous of other women. We finished looking at properties at 2 pm so we spent from then until almost 8 pm together. Cooking food, watching TV, not a word of which I understood, and straightforward, uh, fun. Not in that order. Started and ended with fun. We both laughed at ourselves when we parted. Probably not going to do it again, but we didn't really discuss it. 

This is only something the wife and I are comfortable with when we are out of the country. And I have zero interest in anything that requires "game". If it isn't perfectly obvious and frank exchange of interest then I don't want anything to do with it. 

I have no idea what a secret affair is like, and I have no idea what a threesome would be like but I'm not going to do either one. What other people do is not my business.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Huh?


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## husbandfool (May 20, 2012)

Who?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Late to this one and didn’t read it through. I’ve been in a couple threesomes, but only when I was single. It sort of takes a detachment that it is just sex and only fun. No serious emotional investment in these girls. I can empathize with those that can maintain their emotions so it’s just excitement, fun and sex without other complicated feelings about this third person. Sort of a ONS type mentality toward sex or how you feel about masturbation.

But because I’m emotionally invested with someone, sex IS an outlet how I express and interpret those deeper loving feelings. It’s a action resulting from the emotions. So it really means oh so much more with that person. Making love. I can just have sex with my wife, but sometimes it’s making love. The problem is, she’s not me so she can’t tell for certain where my motivations are coming from (and how I feel when she has sex with me). Is she having sex because she’s horny or having sex because she feels overwhelmed with love toward me? 

So, if she’s with others, I want to assume it’s ‘just sex’, but really don’t know. That’s scary, plays on fears and insecurities. That causes inner turmoil resulting in all sort of other emotions including anger and hurt. ... So, I believe in monogamy. To me, it’s the ultimate courtesy and sign of how much you care about them that you’d give this just so they don’t have that turmoil and questioning of how you feel about not only them, but how you might feel about this third party. 

*It isn’t the sex that bothers me, it’s what it might mean or be a sign of that bothers me. * Does that mean I’m unattractive, less of a man, not fun in bed, unloved, rejected, and on and on and on as that inner insecurity rolls ever more forward knowing your spouse likes other guys and has sex with them... I just can’t deal with that and the destructive pattern it has in me. So; I expect monogomy to spare me that turmoil from anyone I really want in my life.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

The H and I have dabbled in swinging. Same room, together only and completely separate from our regular life (i.e. not with friends). We talked a lot for a long time before we tried it and had been married almost 20 years when we tried.

Honestly, the sex was just ok. In fact, he had trouble maintaining his, uh, erm....you know...! When we got home and relived the experiences, it was a lot more fun. So the fantasy was much more thrilling than the reality. We went to sex clubs and it is fun to watch, but we saw a lot of wives who seemed to be there under duress. Very depressing! If both people are not 100% on board and have not discussed boundaries in advance, it will be a disaster of epic proportions. 

In the end, we realized that sex with each other is 1000 times better.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

We've enjoyed our times in sex clubs even when we haven't done any swapping. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Think it takes special people to be able to do this. The couple MUST be on the same page.

I have a family member that has been a pretty active swinger. He and his wife enjoyed their time together and when they got together it was with the understanding that they were going to be active in that lifestyle.

I have had multiple threesomes in my lifetime. Some were ok, some were amazing. All depends on the people involved. Jealousy can not be present and the rules of the game should be discussed openly before anybody does anything.

It is an amazing thing to explore your sexuality with the person you are with and closest too. To be on the same page sexually can be a great thing as long as you both understand what could happen and don't go outside the boundaries that you set. A lot of open communication is necessary.

So I see both sides. If both are game and have an understanding it can be an amazing thing. If you are dragging your partner into the situation with trepidation and jealousy issues its over before it starts.

And truthfully while the sex was cool and all, the set up beforehand (taking two woman to the sex shop or to a club to all dance together) and the anticipation was a lot of the fun. The "after party" or being alone with the one you just experienced all this with when the sex is AMAZING is even more fun.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Yes, and special doesn't mean "better", as I am sure you did not intend it to mean.

But nor does anyone else's style of marriage make them better. We can get all holier than thou about anal sex or gay sex or fantasizing about being with someone else while boffing the wife - 

But what is pretty clear is that there are some universals that we ought to be paying attention to. You don't hear anyone saying how their wife enjoys being lied to. You don't hear anyone saying that they have a great marriage because there is no communication. Or that both appreciate having their boundaries crossed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You typically don't hear "hey, my spouse f*cked someone else while they were out of the country and I'm so happy about it" either.

Just sayin'.


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## NickyMcCoy (Feb 1, 2014)

I am not the best example because I went through my husbands fantasy of including someone else for sex.

I don't think threesome is something that would improve most marriages.

It did work for us because we discussed this for a long time, we saw videos online, did a lot of research, discussed comforts and discomforts, even discussed it with a therapist.

I drew a hard line on having a women join us in bed, I know my husband wanted that but he respected my wishes.

I have issues that prevent me from having vaginal sex, but even if that was not the case, having intercourse like that with someone other than my husband was something I would have never happened. It was never an option but I did tell my husband how I felt about that anyways so he would understand my feelings.

If I had something with another guy, it would have to be something for fun, no kissing in the lips, or things that are too intimate that I wanted only from my husband.

Took us years to come up with what we both found to be OK, that we knew would not make our relationship any worst.

I know that many parts of my husbands fantasy I was not able to make happen, but what I agreed was to give friends of his oral. He is satisfied with this, didn't hurt our relationship at all, but still don't think would work for most couples and would never advice it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

NickyMcCoy said:


> I am not the best example because I went through my husbands fantasy of including someone else for sex.
> 
> I don't think threesome is something that would improve most marriages.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting your experience and your honest opinion of it.
While I read your experience , I couldn't help wonder something.

Based on what you wrote, seems to me that it was really your husband's fantasy. 
Am I correct ?
Or was it also an original part of yours?
Having discussed it, you laid down specific rules , one of them being no other women in bed with your husband.

So my question is what is later on your husband continues to press the boundaries and ask for another woman in bed?

How will you handle it?
Would you be willing to compromise?

I ask this because relationships are dynamic and it could be a potential source of real conflict later on , if the husband started to feel that way.
After all rules are made to be broken , especially when exploring sexual fantasies.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> The H and I have dabbled in swinging. Same room, together only and completely separate from our regular life (i.e. not with friends). We talked a lot for a long time before we tried it and had been married almost 20 years when we tried.
> 
> Honestly, the sex was just ok. In fact, he had trouble maintaining his, uh, erm....you know...! When we got home and relived the experiences, it was a lot more fun. So the fantasy was much more thrilling than the reality. *We went to sex clubs and it is fun to watch, but we saw a lot of wives who seemed to be there under duress. Very depressing! If both people are not 100% on board and have not discussed boundaries in advance, it will be a disaster of epic proportions. *
> 
> In the end, we realized that sex with each other is 1000 times better.


A few weeks ago I was talking with a friend of mine who asked for us to meet.
She's been married for seven years, but her husband is almost twice her age.
Nice fellow, well off , they seem to have a good marriage generally.
Problem is , she says, he want's her to have sex with her trainer at the gym. He's good friends with the trainer, and the trainer is married.
She says he seems obsessed with it, but she wants no part of it.
It all started with him telling her to talk about her past sexual experiences in graphic details, during lovemaking & sex , and he would get super turned on.
After a while it progressed to him unable to get aroused unless they fantasized about her having sex with another man.
She never really liked it , but partook to please him.
Now it at the point where he actually wants her with another man, and he has the man for her.

She said, that they tried marital counselling , things got back normal for a while, then he started again. He is unable to perform unless she gives him that mental image of another man having sex with her. He is obsessed [ her words] with her having sex with her trainer and coming back to give him the details.

Now , her husband is a very focused , professional man, with a long successful career.
She lacks nothing material , dresses in the finest, drives a luxury vehicle , all courtesy , her husband.

She's says she's considering divorce. 
This is his second marriage. His first ended when his wife had a long term affair with his friend , migrated with his friend, got married and is STILL married to his friend , now with kids.

I think bringing someone else into a relationship to fulfill your partners sexual fantasies is very risky business, and can be extremely difficult to manage.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I wonder why it is that boundaries are always recommended in marriages/partners except when it comes to sex. Why there are no boundaries even if both partners would find it thrilling. Yes, I know people can do what they want, it's none of my business, what ever turns you on, blah blah blah. But does no one feel that every fantasy/lust is not necessarily safe to fulfill? I myself even have a fantasy that I KNOW is not safe to fulfill or I might regret it later so it will remain just a fantasy. (and no it does not involve a 3rd person in our bedroom).

I never even pose this question to my H, or told him the fantasy. Just wondering.


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