# How would a man keep his house in a divorce if the wife cheated?



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

If the wife cheated and wants a divorce, how can a husband fight to keep his house and the kids?

I hear stories of people in this situation all the time. When it comes to courts, the women always keep the house. It would be devastating for the man to leave the house due to his wife's infidelity, only to have the OM replace the house as a father figure.

Worst of all, what if the wife asked for a divorce and the man didn't find out about the affair until after he left the house?

(Sorry, my mind wanders and I have lots of questions.)


----------



## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

Curious_Guy said:


> If the wife cheated and wants a divorce, how can a husband fight to keep his house and the kids?
> 
> I hear stories of people in this situation all the time. When it comes to courts, the women always keep the house. It would be devastating for the man to leave the house due to his wife's infidelity, only to have the OM replace the house as a father figure.
> 
> ...


My divorce was final today. I kept my house, car and share custody of my kids. Every situation is different, but if you can reach an agreement or work with a mediator, do it. My lawyer told me that even though adultery was proven, it's generally accepted in court as something that unfortunately happens. She said it doesn't necessarily make them a bad parent or person (it does) in the eyes of the judge. Every state and judge varies, and I think its impossible to get a handle on what to expect. It is literally a crap-shoot.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*As I understand it, a verdict is far more compelling to be in your favor, greatly provided that evidence to the fact reveals that the WS did indeed cheat, and then either covered it up or just chose to lie about it, much rather than owning up to it in the first place!*


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Furious George said:


> My divorce was final today. I kept my house, car and share custody of my kids. Every situation is different, but if you can reach an agreement or work with a mediator, do it. My lawyer told me that even though adultery was proven, it's generally accepted in court as something that unfortunately happens. *She said it doesn't necessarily make them a bad parent or person (it does) in the eyes of the judge. Every state and judge varies, and I think its impossible to get a handle on what to expect.* It is literally a crap-shoot.


I would also bet it depends on whether or not that judge has been through the pain of infidelity him/herself. Another part of the crap shoot.

Congrats on your outcome, FG. Sounds like you weathered the storm pretty okay.


----------



## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *As I understand it, a verdict is far more compelling to be in your favor, greatly provided that evidence to the fact reveals that the WS did indeed cheat, and then either covered it up or just chose to lie about it, much rather than owning up to it in the first place!*


Arbitrator, that is exactly how I thought going into it. I had a recorded confession. It wasn't the slam-dunk I thought it would be. Things you think are so obvious and in your favor aren't always viewed that way by the judge. Extremely frustrating to the person who was betrayed... When kids are involved, the focus shifts to what is best for them, and rightfully so. It's the interpretation of what is best for them that can really test your faith..


----------



## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

3putt said:


> I would also bet it depends on whether or not that judge has been through the pain of infidelity him/herself. Another part of the crap shoot.
> 
> Congrats on your outcome, FG. Sounds like you weathered the storm pretty okay.


Thank you 3putt. There are so many variables to consider, its impossible to expect anything. I was extremely lucky.


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

Yes! The kids are important of course!

So I guess if you don't have evidence of the affair (something recorded for example), your screwed? Otherwise the cheating spouse will just lie about it in court.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Generally as the kids go, so goes the house. In joint custody situations, most of the cases I've saw, the house is often sold and the equity split. Get yourself a female attorney that specializes in family law.
If the wife is involved with another man and wants out of the marriage, its a good bargaining chip. Use it. Its foolish to try to break up the affair if she wants out and you've got that card to play. Let her fall out of love with Mr. Soulmate after the divorce is final.


----------



## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

Curious_Guy said:


> Yes! The kids are important of course!
> 
> So I guess if you don't have evidence of the affair (something recorded for example), your screwed? Otherwise the cheating spouse will just lie about it in court.


A very good friend of mine in law enforcement told me that his highest rate of convictions came from introducing recorded statements into evidence. (not earth-shattering info, I know) Most smart-phones have that capability, but each state has different laws regarding recording conversations. For example, for the most part, you can't just leave a recorder running in your family room on a loop while you are at work until you catch something. That's a privacy issue. To answer your question, based on what I discovered, you have to have a recorded statement or photos for a really strong case. Some states only require that you prove an opportunity for the adultery existed. (like your spouse travelling to the state of the paramour without you)


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Generally as the kids go, so goes the house. In joint custody situations, most of the cases I've saw, the house is often sold and the equity split. Get yourself a female attorney that specializes in family law.
> If the wife is involved with another man and wants out of the marriage, its a good bargaining chip. Use it. Its foolish to try to break up the affair if she wants out and you've got that card to play. Let her fall out of love with Mr. Soulmate after the divorce is final.


AKA use the fog against the cheater.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

In my BIL and SIL's case, they both make around the same amount of money so there will be no alimony and custody might be 50/50. My BIL told my husband yesterday that he's trying to find out if he can refinance the house just himself. They need one parent to stay in our town so they don't have to take the kids out of their school and my SIL has already decided that she wants to move out on her own. I don't know, maybe she feels guilty for having her affair so she's letting go of the house.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

"14. What will the Court do when I prove that my spouse cheated on me?

Surprisingly, the Court usually does very little when adultery is proved. Massachusetts is a no-fault divorce state and while the Court will consider wrongful conduct, it usually doesn't make much difference in a divorce. This is because the bad conduct is part of the factor "conduct of the parties during the marriage." It is hard to imagine a marriage where the only conduct by one party was bad conduct. Usually every person has good conduct and bad conduct during a marriage. The Judge must consider both good and bad conduct. As a result, it is rare that a person has behaved so badly during a marriage that it has a significant affect on the outcome."

Boston MA Divorce FAQs | Massachusetts Divorce Questions and Answers


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In Mass. you cannot use a recording in court that she did not consent to.

"Massachusetts Wiretapping Law

Massachusetts's wiretapping law often referred to is a "two-party consent" law. More accurately, Massachusetts makes it a crime to secretly record a conversation, whether the conversation is in-person or taking place by telephone or another medium. See Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 272, § 99. Accordingly, if you are operating in Massachusetts, you should always inform all parties to a telephone call or conversation that you are recording, unless it is absolutely clear to everyone involved that you are recording (i.e., the recording is not "secret"). Under Massachusetts's wiretapping law, if a party to a conversation is aware that you are recording and does not want to be recorded, it is up to that person to leave the conversation. "


Massachusetts Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> AKA use the fog against the cheater.


This is exactly what I told my husband to tell his brother. Strike while the iron is hot or before the OM decides he's going to stay with his wife. Right now my SIL is in unicorn land. My BIL needs to take advantage of it.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Curious_Guy said:


> If the wife cheated and wants a divorce, how can a husband fight to keep his house and the kids?


As others have posted, in most jurisdictions the courts do not consider infidelity when making their decisions about custody, unless the children are in some sort of danger as a result of the affair and/or the affair partner. 

If the parents can't work it out, then custody will be awarded to the parent the court considers to be the better primary caregiver, and this is usually the parent who has spent most of the time with the kids, and the house will usually go to that parent, at least for the duration of the children's minority. 

What can you do to fight this? Get a good lawyer who can make a case that you are the better choice as primary caregiver. Make up crap about your soon to be ex if you have to. That's what my ex did and it can work. Be prepared to fight long and hard, and spend lot of money and pull out all the stops. If the facts aren't in your favor, get creative.

If you don't want to go the fighting route, then as others have suggested try to use any negotiating edge you might have to settle matters without leaving it to the courts. If the wife wants to spend time with the affair partner, make it easy for her. She gets to play, and you take care of the kids and the house. Unfortunately, in many cases the wife is going to balk at that unless there are real plans for a future with the affair partner.



Curious_Guy said:


> Worst of all, what if the wife asked for a divorce and the man didn't find out about the affair until after he left the house?


He moves back and tells her to leave.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You need to talk to an attorney. Massachusetts is an equitable distribution state. It means it's not a clear cut as a community property state. With equitable distribution, the settlement is more up to the decision of a judge.

An attorney can tell you how the judge in your district generally lean on the important topics.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lenzi said:


> He moves back and tells her to leave.


The house is her legal residence as well. He can ask her to leave. She does not have to just because he asks.

A lot of couples live in the same home through the divorce until it's decided who gets the house, if it's sold or if there is a court order telling one to leave. It must be hard to do this, but it's pretty common.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The house is her legal residence as well. He can ask her to leave. She does not have to just because he asks.


I know. I suggested he tell her to leave.

It's a lot better than asking. 

Who knows maybe she'd listen?


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

House: Stay in your house. If you want to... I did. I got it from court but I left later. I was glad to leave and start over.

Kids: I have 3 boys. My EX was a SAHM. I made damn sure I got joint custody. I would settle for nothing less than 50%. Now my two older boys live with me full time and youngest half. I'm taking my EX back to court. I am going for full custody and I think I'll win.

Be the best dad you can be now! IT will help in every way imaginable! Good luck to you!


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Furious George said:


> Arbitrator, that is exactly how I thought going into it. I had a recorded confession. It wasn't the slam-dunk I thought it would be. Things you think are so obvious and in your favor aren't always viewed that way by the judge. Extremely frustrating to the person who was betrayed... When kids are involved, the focus shifts to what is best for them, and rightfully so. It's the interpretation of what is best for them that can really test your faith..


*The one mitigating factor is that there are a handful of activist judges out there who will award custody to the female, no matter what, because they traditionally see a woman strictly as "the nurturer," even when the man of the house could, in fact, be so much more adept at it!

What I had earlier intoned is that judges, by and large, don't really care for lies and or rug sweeping, or strategically trickling the truth in their court rooms!*


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My divorced friend sort of explained it out to me. The house itself is an asset, but it’s also something more; Home for the kids. That influences the judge. So, if the wife gets the majority physical custody, she’ll typically get the “home” too since it’s about what is best for the kids and the least disruption to their lives. 

It gets tricky because some judges do not believe joint custody and moving the kids around is in their best interest... So if custody and parenting plans are contested, they tend to pick a primary; Usually the mother unless there is some other compelling reason she would be incapable. Sorry, but it is usually the mom doing the majority of daily parenting like packing lunches, getting them to bus, etc. As liberated of a man as I am, I do see this even in my own home. I pitch in, but she’s really the main one directing and doing. Thus the “family home” also goes to her. I know I’ll be screwed on that one.

Most my divorced friends reached a settlement before having to face a judge so it becomes a non-issue. One that had a ‘fighter’ had a well documented alcoholic who was wearing her prison orange (dui convictions) when she arrived to make all these claims about why she needed the house, full custody, alimony, and child support. The judge berated her as ‘unfit’ and gave my BIL everything he asked for; She got 6 months of alimony (SAHM) and was told to get a job (mandatory in the work-release she was getting ready to transition to).


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My kids were grown. I am in R but when I started to file for D I was looking at loosing both homes as neither one of us would be able to afford them on our own. 

I was hoping that she would allow me to stay in our current home and I could rent out three of the bedrooms and actually make decent money.

I would have given her the other home if she alowed me to keep this one. 

My wife had no plan. She did not expect to get caught. I had great legal advice, my wife went to a very stupid lawyer. 

Alimony for me would have been a year or less. She would have eventually gotten half of my military retirement, I don't get that for another 3 years. 

Adultery would have came into play for spousal support during the time I filed for D and until the D was finalized. Due to her adultery I would have not have to pay that, with the one exception. If we went to the "Master", if my wife would have cried and made a scene, the "Master" is a female who throws the law out the window when another female gets emotional and typically grants spousal support and dismisses the adultery. My wife did not know this, nor that there was a female "Master".

Short term alimony would have been about 60/40 in my favor. The courts here want the SAHM or underemployed (typically the wife) to find employment. So long term alimony is a thing of the past in our state (PA). 

In our state this is the process. You can both come to an agreement, meet with an attorney and take care of it there (cheapest). Or she gets an attorney you get an attorney, you meet, agree, and it is done. Or she gets an attorney as you, you hire a mediator and work it out. If not, then you will have to all go before a "Master", a county approved/appointed attorney who will settle things. If you are still in conflict after meeting with the "Master" then you go before a judge.

In our state adultery can be a consideration but more and more it is no longer the case. Adultery does factor in for spousal support and can be used to have that denied. I am told that it is typically denied on those terms. 

The more you can agree to without attorneys the cheaper it will be.


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> "14. What will the Court do when I prove that my spouse cheated on me?
> 
> Surprisingly, the Court usually does very little when adultery is proved. *Massachusetts is a no-fault divorce state and while the Court will consider wrongful conduct, it usually doesn't make much difference in a divorce.* This is because the bad conduct is part of the factor "conduct of the parties during the marriage." It is hard to imagine a marriage where the only conduct by one party was bad conduct. Usually every person has good conduct and bad conduct during a marriage. The Judge must consider both good and bad conduct. As a result, it is rare that a person has behaved so badly during a marriage that it has a significant affect on the outcome."
> 
> Boston MA Divorce FAQs | Massachusetts Divorce Questions and Answers


Ouch that sucks! Cause I'm from Massachusetts! Lol.

Well I'm a young guy who's far from the married life, but I hear lots of stories and even have a friend who's mother cheated. (I do not know anything that goes on in his house but I've been told that his mother comes and visits now and then so it's assumed the mother left the house).

It's just that when I think of the husband leaving the home instead of the adulterous wife, it seems unfair that the husband has to leave and can't see the kids anymore cause of the wife, and it'll suck to have the OM replace the house as a father figure. I mean imagine if the kids are young and they grow up seeing the OM as a father.

Of course, the kids need proper care and the wife is usually the primary caregiver. But yet the adulterous wife will always be evil in my eyes for breaking hearts. (Same goes for adulterous husbands but at least they get kicked of the house easier lol.)

Well, the law is law. Morals has nothing to do with it.


----------



## 4understanding (Oct 23, 2011)

My divorce was final in march of 13. I told my ex that if she didn't walk away I would expose all evidence I had in court, especaially to make her feel like a pos in front of all of our family. She was a sahm, didn't work, I have a good high paying profession.

Long story short, I kept the house, have primary custody of the kids and ended up very happy with the outcome. She is now living in a small apartment with posom that doesn't work and they have no money. I do see her in passing at times and I just smile. I think she regrets she was caught and is learning how drastically her lifestyle changed.

I've met someone new, have a great relationship with her and couldn't be happier. Be sure to press hard and not give in to stbx on anything. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

For real though. Congrats to all of you with your successful divorce stories.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

4understanding said:


> My divorce was final in march of 13. I told my ex that if she didn't walk away I would expose all evidence I had in court, especaially to make her feel like a pos in front of all of our family. She was a sahm, didn't work, I have a good high paying profession.
> 
> Long story short, I kept the house, have primary custody of the kids and ended up very happy with the outcome


See this is exactly why I don't advocate exposure when divorce is imminent. By exposing just to "get revenge" all that's accomplished is more ugliness and the loss of the proverbial "ace" that can be used to negotiate a better settlement.

Too many posters here jump on the 'exposure' bandwagon and their advice, while meant well is rather reckless.

Generally speaking.


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

Doesn't it suck though?? Imagine you being married to a wife you loved, only to find out she was cheating. Now divorce has been established and you leave the house, and barely get to see your kids anymore. Yet the OM is at your home helping your ex-wife care for the kids, not you! It's like the innocent husband's life is all depressing now cause he barely see's his kids anymore and he's alone, all because of his wife's infidelity. And yet the wife still gets the good end of the deal. (Seriously I have lots of feelings lol)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Curious_Guy said:


> Yes! The kids are important of course!
> 
> So I guess if you don't have evidence of the affair (something recorded for example), your screwed? Otherwise the cheating spouse will just lie about it in court.


 It depends on where you live. Most states are a "no fault" state. So, most of the time, it doesn't matter to the courts WHY a marriage is ending. The ONLY thing that family courts care about is what is in the best interest of the kids. Now, if your kids are old enough to make the choice who they would rather live with is weight out in court. If your Ex has moved out of the house to be with the OM, or if she set up residency somewhere outside the martial home will be looked at as well. They could see that you're still in the home and acting as the custodial parent, they may want to keep it that way as to not disrupt the kids lives i.e. setting them up in a new school and moving away from their friends. Remember, best interest of the kids.

If you both are living in the house, then they may suggest selling the martial home and splitting the principal between the two of you with 50/50 custody of the kids. OR if you can do the mortgage payment and she can't, then they may suggest buying her out of her half of the estimated cost of the house.

See, so many ways this could go. But, I would find out if you live in an "at fault" state.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

lenzi said:


> See this is exactly why I don't advocate exposure when divorce is imminent. By exposing just to "get revenge" all that's accomplished is more ugliness and the loss of the proverbial "ace" that can be used to negotiate a better settlement.
> 
> Too many posters here jump on the 'exposure' bandwagon and their advice, while meant well is rather reckless.
> 
> Generally speaking.


This holding back only plays out really in states that allow fault, otherwise all the threats in the world will not get it admitted in court, and generally when it is going through D like this, the friends already know. The exposure at that point is for humiliation in the eyes of those not already in the know, which may be very few.


----------



## cantdecide (Apr 9, 2012)

In my case, my kids (my son actually) decided. My now ex was counting on child support to make the mortgage payments. When we announced that we were getting a divorce, my son told my now ex that there was no way that he was living with her. Because of that, she was going to have to owe me child support for him. Cut her child support from $1200 month to $380 or so until he turned 18 and then it was back up to $800 (rough figures but you get the idea). In any case, even with $800 month, there was no way she could make the mortgage payments and still have enough to live on. Convinced her that she'd lose the house in a year and ruin hers and my credit. She claimed she couldn't afford first months rent and deposit for an apartment. I ponyed up and paid that. Called her bluff to get her to move out.

I basically guilted her into leaving. A year later she decided to buy a house. She's still on my mortgage so her new mortgage company told her she'd at least have to sign a quit claim deed for them to give her a mortgage. So now the home is mine free and clear but she's still on the mortgage. Tears her up. 6 months ago she tried to finance a car and couldn't. She angrily called me and told me to refinance or else.  Ah, the joys of a stupid ex.

Oh, and I also had (and still have) her convinced that I have a lot of dirt on her and her now husband. Emails, nasty texts, etc. I guess she was embarrassed about the possibility of those making it into public. LOL


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

cantdecide said:


> Oh, and I also had (and still have) her convinced that I have a lot of dirt on her and her now husband. Emails, nasty texts, etc. I guess she was embarrassed about the possibility of those making it into public. LOL



Some people are and some people aren't. When my Dad was cheating on my Mom, she was getting reports from lots of friends and family about him out and about with the OW, holding hands and kissing in public, going to dinners, shopping, etc. Didn't seem to phase him and the exposure would have served no purpose as everyone knew already (think small midwestern town where everyone knows when the other farts on the opposite side of town).


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> This holding back only plays out really in states that allow fault, otherwise all the threats in the world will not get it admitted in court, and generally when it is going through D like this, the friends already know


I know that.. and perhaps in some cases everyone knows, but other times, the threat of exposure could be used to negotiate a better settlement because the cheater doesn't want friends, relatives, and the workplace to know about it.

That's what happened in the example cited by that other poster.

He got everything he wanted because cheating wife wanted to keep everything on the down-low.

Regardless of whether it's a nofault state, as most are nowadays.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If the judge and the lawyers haven't been sleeping with the cheater, you have a fifty fifty chance of keeping the kids and the house will be sold. If the kids aren't yours and the house is paid for, she's likely to get everything of value and your only reward will be getting away from her.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hookares said:


> If the judge and the lawyers haven't been sleeping with the cheater, you have a fifty fifty chance of keeping the kids and the house will be sold. If the kids aren't yours and the house is paid for, she's likely to get everything of value and your only reward will be getting away from her.


What does this even mean?

Why would the judge and the lawyers be sleeping with the cheater?

So, assuming everyone in the courthouse is not sleeping with the cheater, where do you get 50/50 odds of keeping the kids? What does "keeping the kids" even mean? Are you talking about custody? If so, the odds are something like 9/10 that the woman will get sole custody if it's left to the courts because most of the time the woman is the primary caregiver and the man is the breadwinner. 

If the kids don't belong to the husband, then it would naturally follow that he doesn't have any case for custody. 

Whether or not the house is paid for has no bearing on final asset distribution, if she gets the house in the divorce, he will get something to offset his share of 50% of the value of the house, typically the other major asset is a retirement plan; or perhaps he'll get his share of the equity when the house is sold when the kids reach the age of majority.

It's common fallacy to think that the wife gets everything and the man gets nothing, although it's true that quite often the man ends up paying the bulk of his salary in support, and he's the one who has to move out and sometimes to add insult to injury he gets to watch the other man move into his house while he's sleeping at some crappy apartment or with a relative. That much being said, he still has a legal right to half the marital assets, even if in the short term he gets shafted. 

There are no rewards in a divorce, only "damage control".


----------



## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Curious_Guy said:


> If the wife cheated and wants a divorce, how can a husband fight to keep his house and the kids?
> 
> I hear stories of people in this situation all the time. When it comes to courts, the women always keep the house. It would be devastating for the man to leave the house due to his wife's infidelity, only to have the OM replace the house as a father figure.
> 
> ...


You get a lawyer. You document all the times she neglects the home and children by spending time conducting her affair. You have the lawyer file for divorce.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

lenzi, are you familiar with small town "justice"?


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hookares said:


> lenzi, are you familiar with small town "justice"?


hookares do you always answer a question with a question?


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

I got to keep the house. My EX then started seeing my next door neighbor. I finished a 2000 square foot basement, ran all the electric, painted the entire house, built a patio with irregular shaped flagstone complete with a fire pit and two level waterfall/fountain. I also hand built an oak bar with brass rail and finished it with cherry stain. I tiled much of the house and ran wood floors in much as well. I painted murals in my kids rooms, cycloramas on all walls of dinosaurs and nature, bugs etc... I painted the bathroom with a sea motif. We lined out a football field in the back yard complete with a midfield logo of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

When everything was said and done. After all the time and effort I spent on the house out of love for my family, I realized my house was just a box.

Home is where your family is. It is where you can love your kids and build new memories and get past the past. I moved. I left all that work behind. I really don't care about material matters.

My pictures on my walls now are made of pictures I took with myself and my kids doing things we will remember. Going to Tennesee on the best vacation ever, Hiking the Appalachian Trail, My kids pictures of them playing sports.

The house we live in... I could care less. I want the memories and new adventures. If she gives you an offer for that box you live in, I would take it. Let the house be her problem. She could have banged the OM in it. You can't clean that stink out of the house.


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

lenzi said:


> What does this even mean?
> 
> Why would the judge and the lawyers be sleeping with the cheater?
> 
> So, assuming everyone in the courthouse is not sleeping with the cheater, where do you get 50/50 odds of keeping the kids? What does "keeping the kids" even mean? Are you talking about custody? If so, the odds are something like 9/10 that the woman will get sole custody if it's left to the courts because most of the time the woman is the primary caregiver and the man is the breadwinner.


This is absolutely NOT the case. You need to be there for your kids and establish that you take an active role in their lives. You need to set a precedent that as a father you are doing what is right by them.

My EX was a stay at home mom and I travel for work. I got joint custody because I am a good dad.

Now my two oldest live with me full time and the youngest will follow soon. I am there for my kids. I help them with school. I take them to their sports. I demand that they clean, do their homework and get good grades in school. My kids would rather come to my house and do chores or their punishment for acting out in school than go to their mothers even though they could be there and just play video games.

You will get 50/50 at the least. I refused to take anything less. Because my EX was/is selfish she will lose the kids. She is more interested in her AP than her own kids.

I have always been there for my kids. I absolutely refused to take anything less than 50/50 and I am actually a much better father because of the divorce.

You will only get less than 50/50 if you don't really want full custody. I live in Maryland. Everything was geared toward women but that has changed. Look into fathers rights and know the law. I cited case law to my lawyer on our first session.

I would be damned if I let my EX have an affair, break up the family and take my kids! You want the kids, fight for them and be a great dad and they will always love and respect you. That cannot be replaced.

Research the topic about telling your kids about the affair and why your family is broken. IT was the prevailing thought that to not hurt the kids you keep quiet about it. That path will lead you to getting walked on like a doormat. Be honest, be strong, be there for your kids always in spirit if not body. Things will work out for you.

The primary care giver thing... That is a load of crap. Make them breakfast, take them to school, help them with their homework. The only reason you weren't doing it before was because your wife was too lazy to get toff her azz and do it. She had time for an affair but not to be a real mom, i.e. primary care giver.

Be strong and push back! She should be the one fighting for 50/50 custody because she is not a good mom. 50/50 is the starting point. Be a factor in your kids live now and show it. It will work out for you. Don't back down.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> My EX was a stay at home mom and I travel for work. I got joint custody because I am a good dad.


In my state if the parents won't agree to joint custody then the court does not have the power to award it, one parent is given sole custody and the other gets visitation.



MovingAhead said:


> Now my two oldest live with me full time and the youngest will follow soon.


In my divorce my ex was the primary caregiver and it would have been an uphill battle that I would have ultimately lost, if I had fought for sole custody. That's how the courts work here, they maintain the status quo, and if the wife was stay at home parent and the father was the breadwinner the odds of him getting sole custody is next to none. Years after my divorce was final, my eldest moved in with me and custody was changed to me without a fight, and then my younger daughter moved in with me and again, no argument from my ex. Although my younger daughter moved back with my ex yet again and after a court battle custody reverted back to my ex again and that's how things currently stand. Point being that sure, after the divorce, kids can and do move back and forth and custody changes happen. But during the divorce, like I said, the courts in my area keep the status quo and it's usually sole custody to mom. 



MovingAhead said:


> My kids would rather come to my house and do chores or their punishment for acting out in school than go to their mothers even though they could be there and just play video games.


My younger daughter initially moved with me because she was doing poorly in school and mom didn't care. I gave her rules and discipline and curfews and her grades skyrocketed. But we clashed, and she didn't like being told what to do, so she opted to go back to mom's, and take the path of least resistance. Despite rock solid proof that she did much better in school while living with me, the courts tend to give 16 year olds a lot of discretion. What they want seems to matter the most. 



MovingAhead said:


> You will get 50/50 at the least. I refused to take anything less. Because my EX was/is selfish she will lose the kids. She is more interested in her AP than her own kids.


You have no way of knowing what he will get. Even an attorney wouldn't make a promise like that. Every case is different, every judge is different. Local laws vary widely. In your case, you fought hard and you're a good parent, but you also got a lot of help from your ex who made it clear that she didn't care about the kids. It's not always like that. Sometimes cheating wives still take great care of the children, and that's what the courts are looking for. 



MovingAhead said:


> You will only get less than 50/50 if you don't really want full custody.


I don't agree with this at all. Sometimes the father's get shafted no matter how hard they fight, no matter how great a parent they are, no matter how much money they spend on attorneys. There are stories like this by the thousands, if you want some links then ask away and I'll put them up here. Those poor bastards did everything they could to try to keep their kids and they ended up with maybe 2 weekends a month and a couple of weekdays here and there at the very best.



MovingAhead said:


> I would be damned if I let my EX have an affair, break up the family and take my kids!


Happens all the time. Often she gets the house too. To add insult to injury the OM might even move right on in there.



MovingAhead said:


> The primary care giver thing... That is a load of crap.


Maybe in your world the whole primary caregiver thing is a load of crap, unfortunately the courts don't typically look at it that way.



MovingAhead said:


> Be strong and push back! She should be the one fighting for 50/50 custody because she is not a good mom. 50/50 is the starting point. Be a factor in your kids live now and show it. It will work out for you. Don't back down.


This I agree with. Fight back as hard as you can, but you also need to be realistic.


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I don't agree with this at all. Sometimes the father's get shafted no matter how hard they fight, no matter how great a parent they are, no matter how much money they spend on attorneys. There are stories like this by the thousands, if you want some links then ask away and I'll put them up here. Those poor bastards did everything they could to try to keep their kids and they ended up with maybe 2 weekends a month and a couple of weekdays here and there at the very best.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stumbled upon my old thread again. Honestly lenzi, hearing those stories would make me so mad and sad. It sucks that the poor innocent man suffers because of his cheating wife. He loses time with the kids, loses half his stuff, loses his house, and even has the OM replace the the house as a father figure.

I'm not married and too young for that right now, but clearly I wish to not deal with a cheating wife in the future. (As any other men would).


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Curious_Guy said:


> Stumbled upon my old thread again. Honestly lenzi, hearing those stories would make me so mad and sad. It sucks that the poor innocent man suffers because of his cheating wife. He loses time with the kids, loses half his stuff, loses his house, and even has the OM replace the the house as a father figure.
> 
> I'm not married and too young for that right now, but clearly I wish to not deal with a cheating wife in the future. (As any other men would).


Most women never cheat.

Men and women cheat at about the same rate, with men cheating slightly more often.

In divorce, both parents lose time with their children. More and more, custody is split 50/50.

Most, about 70% of married women work. And 40% of all wives earn more than their husbands do. A good percentage of the other 30% who work earn equal to or close to what their husband's earn. Why do you assume that the marital assets are all his and that he's losing half of his stuff?

Don't for get that even SAHM's work. Is your attitude that SAHM's (30% of married women) contribute nothing to the marriage?

If you want to stake things in your favor marry a woman over 25 with a college degree. Make sure that she earns the same as you and that she is ever a SAHM. 

If you want 50/50 custody of children in divorce, make sure that you parent your children just as much as your wife does. Take them to doc appointments, to school events, sports games, be involved in their lives.

Why on earth are you worrying about issues that would probably never affect you since you are very young, can choose a wife who earns what you do.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Curious---go to google---type in Massachusetts Statutes, then type in Family Law statutes, and read the whole section from beginning to end---you will know exactly what every Family Law Atty in Mass. knows---cuz that's where they go for info.---only diff, is they deal with it every day----just read the codes, you will know what you need to know, and how to proceed from there---also get your free consultation with a good Bulldog type D. atty.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Curious_Guy said:


> I'm not married and too young for that right now, but clearly I wish to not deal with a cheating wife in the future. (As any other men would).


I don't really have anything to add to your thread, but since you personal messaged me and asked me to comment on your comment, I'll just say this:

If I was going to do it all over again I'd never get married. There's just no point to it. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.

An exclusive committed relationship with one woman? Absolutely.

Comingling our finances and signing a marriage certificate? No way.

I wouldn't bring more children into this world either. Kids tend to be rather selfish, greedy, they lack gratitude and before you know it they go from breast feeding to asking for the car keys. Then you only hear from them when they need cash.

No thanks


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

To EleGirl, I hope you don't think I'm being biased right now.
And yeah I'm young but I created this thread just to see people's opinions cause I had friend who's mother cheated (Yes I know fathers cheat too) and I just wondered how the procedures go when it comes to divorce and how a man or woman can fight for himself or herself.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Curious_Guy said:


> To EleGirl, I hope you don't think I'm being biased right now.
> And yeah I'm young but I created this thread just to see people's opinions cause I had friend who's mother cheated (Yes I know fathers cheat too) and I just wondered how the procedures go when it comes to divorce and how a man or woman can fight for himself or herself.


You are wise to be asking questions about all this now.

Your original post was asking about how men can protect themselves. I'm glad to see that you might be starting to realize that is not a gender specific issue. The laws now are the same for men and women...as they should be. 

The best way to protect yourself is to know the marriage laws and pick they type of woman who is least likely to cheat or walk out on her marriage. That's a woman over 25 with a college degree. And for you to be over 30. 

The person who told you to read your state family law was right. Do that. Make sure that the woman your marry (if you marry) knows them too. That way you both know what you are really signing up for. If you are single and have a long term relationship, make sure you know the laws that apply to that as well.

I heard a judge explain in frustration that people make the mistake in thinking that marriage is about love. She said it's not about love, it's about joining assets and forming a partnership.

She's right. When there is love and caring, it's an ever better partnership.

Sure marriage is about “living with a sexual partner who is dedicated to them, love”. But marriage laws are about the only part of the contract that they can govern… the mixing of assets, finances and children.

It’s still true that if you take two couples (who represent the average of all couples)… with all things equal in their lives except one is married and one is not…

The married couple will have more assets, more income. They are healthier, live longer. Their children do better in all aspects of live.

The same thing plays out in business. Sole proprietorships tend to earn less and accumulate less than all other forms of business that create partnerships, corporations, LLC’s, etc.

The sum is greater than the whole. 

The reasons that marriage creates more financially are many, favored tax status, favored inheritance status, favored status when it comes to things like insurance, joint purchases, sharing credit ratings, etc. Having only one set of bills to pay for your home. Lawyers are not needed to determine who has paternal rights, who gets the children when, who pays how much in support and on and on. (so less cash outlay here too)

If we change the laws to create a life structure for singles, that is essentially the same as marriage, we have only re-created marriage under a different name.

Marriages today break up because we have a silly notion of love-marriage. Sure it’s great on the surface but it leads to things like people thinking that because today, or this month, they wake up not feeling romantic love for their spouse that their marriage is done and they seek out an affair to feed their love addiction. After all they were brought up on Disney love movies that taught them that this is what life is about.

When their spouse does not meet their needs 100% (no one can meet anyone’s needs 100%) they look for someone else to meet them and/or they leave the marriage.. only to later find out that they have to meet their own needs.

The marriage vows that have been discussed here have nothing to do with romantic love. They come from a time when two people who hardly know each other got married and learned to love each other. It was often not romantic love. It’s the old love is action, not a feeling. 

Though many times, in arranged marriages, couples did/do fall romantically in love with each other. If you put a man and a woman together, to deal with life and children, this normally happens.

The reason that some people today are disenchanted with marriage is that they think that marriage is what they see in fairytales.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

It sounds to me like what is really at work in the OP is kind of a primal fear "I have been cuckolded and now I will be dethroned as the man of the house and replaced with another man, who will even replace me as the father of my own kids." In reality, that's not a likely outcome no matter how assets are divided. Try to get past that and think about what's best for the kids.


----------



## TexDad034 (Oct 9, 2013)

dadsdivorce.com find the stickied post "the list" youre in the wrong forum bud.


----------



## Curious_Guy (Aug 21, 2013)

TexDad034 said:


> dadsdivorce.com find the stickied post "the list" youre in the wrong forum bud.


Not really the wrong forum if you think of it.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Curious_Guy said:


> If the wife cheated and wants a divorce, how can a husband fight to keep his house and the kids?


As far as the house, its not like the soon to be x-wife just automatically gets the house and you lose all equity in it. Half the equity in the house is due to each spouse, unless the house was bought and paid for before the marriage.

So if a wife gets the house, then she is going to owe the husband half the equity in it that was accumulated while married. Some people don't want to owe that, or if they did get the house then they can negotiate something, for example, not getting any or an equivalent amount from the other spouse's retirement.

As far as the kids, well, as a man, you would already have 3 strikes against you. Infidelity isn't enough to deem a mother unfit. You can fight for joint custody and 50/50, but in the end, as long as the mother isn't a drug addict, or there is proof that she abuses the kids, etc, then if she wants it, she will get primary custody. In that situation you can still get joint custody, but she would still be the custodial parent, and you get to pay her for what she did to the family. Nice huh?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Racer said:


> My divorced friend sort of explained it out to me. The house itself is an asset, but it’s also something more; Home for the kids. That influences the judge. So, if the wife gets the majority physical custody, she’ll typically get the “home” too since it’s about what is best for the kids and the least disruption to their lives.


And she'll end up owing the H half the equity in exchange for a quit claim deed. That is unless H has a crappy lawyer.


----------

