# Is it normal for Wife to need alcohol for sex?



## BIL310

My wife needs alcohol to have sex. When we first met 20 years ago it was never an issue but for as long as I remember now she needs at least a bottle of wine or something equivalent to want sex.

We have had sex sober in the last couple of years and she admitted it was better however nothing changed after that. We usually act like passing ships in the night then come Friday or Saturday have a drink together and then we usually end up have sex which I initiate.

We have two kids and she said to me recently that she’s not highly sexed anymore and even if I was Brad Pitt she’d still need a couple of drinks to have sex.

I just find it weird and would like to have sex sober. Every time I approach the subject she gets very defensive and says that’s just the way she is.

Is this normal?


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## Violet28

In a word, no.


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## Mr. Nail

It's not unusual. It does throw the whole concept of affirmative consent out the window.


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## minimalME

I don't need alcohol - definitely not to be interested.

But I do prefer it. 

I'm pretty high strung, and I like feeling uninhibited.

I'm not much of a drinker, and I'm totally capable of having sex without. It just wouldn't be as much fun. For me.


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## 23cm

It's normal for my wife to need alcohol to face 10 a.m.


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## Diana7

Well no.


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## oldshirt

Not normal and definitely not healthy. 

So here is the million dollar question - is it only around sex that she drinks or is she hitting the bottle at other times and for other things as well??

Is there more drinking going on that what you realize? If you were to go all CSI and search every nook and cranny of the house and her car and the garden shed, would you find any bottles stashed in any hiding spots?

That is what would help determine whether this is a sex issue or a drinking issue. 

It is common for alcoholics to have various levels of sexual dysfunction and feel like they need a good buzz on in order to function sexually.

But this can also be an attraction issue to where she is not sexually attracted to you and can not have sex with you unless drunk. 

One is treated through chemical abuse treatment and the other is treated through sex therapy.


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## Edo Edo

BIL310 said:


> My wife needs alcohol to have sex. When we first met 20 years ago it was never an issue but for as long as I remember now she needs at least a bottle of wine or something equivalent to want sex.
> 
> We have had sex sober in the last couple of years and she admitted it was better however nothing changed after that. We usually act like passing ships in the night then come Friday or Saturday have a drink together and then we usually end up have sex which I initiate.
> 
> We have two kids and she said to me recently that she’s not highly sexed anymore and even if I was Brad Pitt she’d still need a couple of drinks to have sex.
> 
> I just find it weird and would like to have sex sober. Every time I approach the subject she gets very defensive and says that’s just the way she is.
> 
> Is this normal?



I don't mean this to sound harsher than intended, but does she need that much alcohol to have sex, or does she need that much alcohol to have sex with you? You said that you two are like ships that pass in the night. Is it possible she fell out of love with you at some point and she gave you the Brad Pitt line to spare some of your feelings? How does she act around you during other activities?


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## BIL310

oldshirt said:


> Not normal and definitely not healthy.
> 
> So here is the million dollar question - is it only around sex that she drinks or is she hitting the bottle at other times and for other things as well??
> 
> Is there more drinking going on that what you realize? If you were to go all CSI and search every nook and cranny of the house and her car and the garden shed, would you find any bottles stashed in any hiding spots?
> 
> That is what would help determine whether this is a sex issue or a drinking issue.
> 
> It is common for alcoholics to have various levels of sexual dysfunction and feel like they need a good buzz on in order to function sexually.
> 
> But this can also be an attraction issue to where she is not sexually attracted to you and can not have sex with you unless drunk.
> 
> One is treated through chemical abuse treatment and the other is treated through sex therapy.


She’s definitely not an alcoholic. She has a very stressful career and we’ve always had a few drinks once or twice a week as a wind down. You can visibly see the stress release after a few drinks. She’s also only smokes when she has a drink.


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## BIL310

Edo Edo said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife needs alcohol to have sex. When we first met 20 years ago it was never an issue but for as long as I remember now she needs at least a bottle of wine or something equivalent to want sex.
> 
> We have had sex sober in the last couple of years and she admitted it was better however nothing changed after that. We usually act like passing ships in the night then come Friday or Saturday have a drink together and then we usually end up have sex which I initiate.
> 
> We have two kids and she said to me recently that she’s not highly sexed anymore and even if I was Brad Pitt she’d still need a couple of drinks to have sex.
> 
> I just find it weird and would like to have sex sober. Every time I approach the subject she gets very defensive and says that’s just the way she is.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean this to sound harsher than intended, but does she need that much alcohol to have sex, or does she need that much alcohol to have sex with you? You said that you two are like ships that pass in the night. Is it possible she fell out of love with you at some point and she gave you the Brad Pitt line to spare some of your feelings? How does she act around you during other activities?
Click to expand...

I’m don’t know whether it is just me but I’m feeling very insecure about it. It’s not nice getting rejected all the time. The frequency of sex is twindling as times goes on. Sometimes we don’t have a drink of a weekend together because of one thing or another and I know full well there’ll be no sex that week.

When we’re on holiday there’s no problems we have sex most nights but then again we are drinking every night.

She’s also a very cold person. Will never hug or kiss me and if I do the same to her she’s the first one to pull away. She’ll quite easily get in bed every night and just go to sleep with zero physical contact.

When I’ve brought the subject up she says oh poor you, it’s always about you etc. It would be nice to have sex of a morning for instance or in a different location but when I ever suggest it I get the scowl and she says never been that type of person. Well she has because she hasn’t always been like that. Now she just says yeh when she was 18 and didn’t have kids etc.

She does from time to time schedule date nights which means a meal, drinks and a hotel but on a couple of occasions we’ve both drank too much and ended up falling asleep with anything happened. Zero chance of it happening the next morning.

I told her that after 20 years I still don’t know what she wants. Whether to hug her, kiss her or just leave her alone. I do know that the rejection to sex and all round general lack of affection is horrible. It makes me feel sick and sad when I’m learning there night after night after she’s just turned over. A very lonely feeling.

I even went on **** ***** the other day just to see what it was like. And I know seeking affection elsewhere isn’t the answer I also don’t want to split my family up and be one of those single Dads who takes his kids to McDonald’s of a weekend either.


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## 269370

I have a friend, his gf can only have sex with him when she’s drunk (maybe that’s you?).
I’m not sure what to make of it.
Alcohol obviously loosens inhibitions and seems to make some women bit more horny/adventurous but if it’s the only state she would be willing to have sex with me, I’m not sure I would like it...
Different strokes for different penis, as they say.


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## Andy1001

BIL310 said:


> She’s definitely not an alcoholic. She has a very stressful career and we’ve always had a few drinks once or twice a week as a wind down. You can visibly see the stress release after a few drinks. She’s also only smokes when she has a drink.


You keep emphasizing that your wife has a very stressful career,in this and in your previous threads.Any career that is stressful for this length of time is not a career,it’s a prison sentence and will have long term health repercussions.
I wouldn’t be happy if my wife needed a pint of vodka (Your words) on board before she could show me any affection much less want to have sex with me.
Frankly it would feel like rape.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> I even went on **** *****



???whats that?
This ****ing filter. Hate it.



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## BIL310

Andy1001 said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She’s definitely not an alcoholic. She has a very stressful career and we’ve always had a few drinks once or twice a week as a wind down. You can visibly see the stress release after a few drinks. She’s also only smokes when she has a drink.
> 
> 
> 
> You keep emphasizing that your wife has a very stressful career,in this and in your previous threads.Any career that is stressful for this length of time is not a career,it’s a prison sentence and will have long term health repercussions.
> I wouldn’t be happy if my wife needed a pint of vodka (Your words) on board before she could show me any affection much less want to have sex with me.
> Frankly it would feel like rape.
Click to expand...

It could be a bottle of wine or 5/8 small vodka and coke etc but she’s not drunk by any stretch of imagination. We’ve always been drinkers if you can call it that.

For instance if she said on Friday shall we have a drink and I said no she wouldn’t have a drink. We always drink together. The problem is I know if I say no then there’s not a chance of sex etc. Even when we’re having a few drinks and I can see she’s more relaxed I’ll ask her for a kiss and she’s more engaged with it.

She just says I’m a more affectionate person than she is. And that she’s never gonna be like she was when she was 18-25 etc before kids and stretch marks etc.


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I even went on **** *****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ???whats that?
> This ****ing filter. Hate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well known web Site for people in relationships to find someone else also looking for something missing in their marriage.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> It could be a bottle of wine or 5/8 small vodka and coke etc but she’s not drunk by any stretch of imagination. We’ve always been drinkers if you can call it that.
> 
> For instance if she said on Friday shall we have a drink and I said no she wouldn’t have a drink. We always drink together. The problem is I know if I say no then there’s not a chance of sex etc. Even when we’re having a few drinks and I can see she’s more relaxed I’ll ask her for a kiss and she’s more engaged with it.
> 
> She just says I’m a more affectionate person than she is. And that she’s never gonna be like she was when she was 18-25 etc before kids and stretch marks etc.



What birth control is she on?


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## john117

Lookup "touch aversion"... There's a few causes, not sure which one is the least worrisome.


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It could be a bottle of wine or 5/8 small vodka and coke etc but she’s not drunk by any stretch of imagination. We’ve always been drinkers if you can call it that.
> 
> For instance if she said on Friday shall we have a drink and I said no she wouldn’t have a drink. We always drink together. The problem is I know if I say no then there’s not a chance of sex etc. Even when we’re having a few drinks and I can see she’s more relaxed I’ll ask her for a kiss and she’s more engaged with it.
> 
> She just says I’m a more affectionate person than she is. And that she’s never gonna be like she was when she was 18-25 etc before kids and stretch marks etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What birth control is she on?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

None. She’s never been on the pill. I’m the one who uses protection.

We’ve got money problems at the moment which aren’t helping either but the issue has been going on for a long time now so she can’t use that as an excuse. Last year it was she hates her body then did some exercise classes and lost weight but nothing really changed.

There was some good weeks but by that I mean we’ve had sex twice after drinking. The affection side never changes. She’s never learned over in bed and kissed me just off the cuff. Not for as long as I can remember.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> None. She’s never been on the pill. I’m the one who uses protection.
> 
> We’ve got money problems at the moment which aren’t helping either but the issue has been going on for a long time now so she can’t use that as an excuse. Last year it was she hates her body then did some exercise classes and lost weight but nothing really changed.
> 
> There was some good weeks but by that I mean we’ve had sex twice after drinking. The affection side never changes. She’s never learned over in bed and kissed me just off the cuff. Not for as long as I can remember.




Some people are not so much into being all touchy-feely. (My wife isn’t really that into it and I’m not either). Doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy sex...Maybe she has a hard time letting her mind go and needs something to ‘switch it off’.
Sex is a thing to get lost in. Maybe try leading a bit more and be more dominant?
And also maybe check her phone in case she’s into ‘Dave’, from her office....Farfetched but you never know. Better safe than sorry.


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> None. She’s never been on the pill. I’m the one who uses protection.
> 
> We’ve got money problems at the moment which aren’t helping either but the issue has been going on for a long time now so she can’t use that as an excuse. Last year it was she hates her body then did some exercise classes and lost weight but nothing really changed.
> 
> There was some good weeks but by that I mean we’ve had sex twice after drinking. The affection side never changes. She’s never learned over in bed and kissed me just off the cuff. Not for as long as I can remember.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people are not so much into being all touchy-feely. (My wife isn’t really that into it and I’m not either). Doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy sex...Maybe she has a hard time letting her mind go and needs something to ‘switch it off’.
> Sex is a thing to get lost in. Maybe try leading a bit more and be more dominant?
> And also maybe check her phone in case she’s into ‘Dave’, from her office....Farfetched but you never know. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

She’s the one that makes all the decisions. She sorts out all the household bills, what where having for tea (although I cook) and is in control of the money situation. I do my fair share. School runs etc. Get kids in bed.

I’ve been reading about how men can become dominated by their wife so that she’s not attracted anymore. I was also of thinking of trying something along this route I’m just now sure how I can become more dominant and not just in the bedroom!


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## Violet28

BIL310 said:


> I’ve been reading about how men can become dominated by their wife so that she’s not attracted anymore. I was also of thinking of trying something along this route I’m just now sure how I can become more dominant and not just in the bedroom!


You can do this by becoming the leader of the family and being involved in the decision making. By being reliable and not making her feel like your mother, I'm not saying you are doing this but sometimes it can happen in marriages. Don't make her remind you about things or do something the first time she asks, better yet, do it all on your own before she even notices that something needs to be done. This can be stuff with the kids, chores around the house, making plans, paying bills, finding a babysitter and planning a night out.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> She’s the one that makes all the decisions. She sorts out all the household bills, what where having for tea (although I cook) and is in control of the money situation. I do my fair share. School runs etc. Get kids in bed.
> 
> I’ve been reading about how men can become dominated by their wife so that she’s not attracted anymore. I was also of thinking of trying something along this route I’m just now sure how I can become more dominant and not just in the bedroom!



Try with bedroom first. Sounds like she needs a break of being always ‘in control’.
Tie her up (while both of you are sober), use a blindfold, get a whip. Keep her on edge. Don’t have sex with her until she drips onto the household bills and begs for it.
Those school runs are a b****.


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She’s the one that makes all the decisions. She sorts out all the household bills, what where having for tea (although I cook) and is in control of the money situation. I do my fair share. School runs etc. Get kids in bed.
> 
> I’ve been reading about how men can become dominated by their wife so that she’s not attracted anymore. I was also of thinking of trying something along this route I’m just now sure how I can become more dominant and not just in the bedroom!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try with bedroom first. Sounds like she needs a break of being always ‘in control’.
> Tie her up (while both of you are sober), use a blindfold, get a whip. Keep her on edge. Don’t have sex with her until she drips onto the household bills and begs for it.
> Those school runs are a b****.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What a time to be alive that would be!


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## AliceA

As someone else said, the alcohol is just a tool she uses to relax. It would probably be healthier for her to use meditation or music or something, but that's not something you can make her do anyway, so alcohol and cigarettes it is. Since stress lowers a person's libido, it makes sense she's not thinking about sex or affection while stressed, and if she's stressed most of the time...

I think you should consider outside help. The two of you have been working with this dynamic for a long time and have been unable to change anything. I know you mentioned money problems, but even so, I'd seriously consider a sex therapist if you have any wriggle room in your budget.


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## BIL310

So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.

She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single. 

I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc. 

She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family. 

She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know. 

Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now. 

She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days. 

I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me. 

The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.


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## Beach123

Well... you may want to consider getting a JOB that pays a monthly salary!

Haven't you ever considered that?

It is your job to provide a sense of safety and security as a partner in the marriage.

Go to work every day and earn an amount that provides for your family.

It's really not right that she's kept you from knowing her feelings - but now that you know - YOU need to do something to provide security. If you don't she will either leave or cheat - or both.

Drunk sex is just a cover up for her feelings - of not wanting to be in reality.


She has said she chooses not to BE with you... time for action now! Not next week. Get a job asap!


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## FieryHairedLady

BIL310 said:


> My wife needs alcohol to have sex. When we first met 20 years ago it was never an issue but for as long as I remember now she needs at least a bottle of wine or something equivalent to want sex.
> 
> We have had sex sober in the last couple of years and she admitted it was better however nothing changed after that. We usually act like passing ships in the night then come Friday or Saturday have a drink together and then we usually end up have sex which I initiate.
> 
> We have two kids and she said to me recently that she’s not highly sexed anymore and even if I was Brad Pitt she’d still need a couple of drinks to have sex.
> 
> I just find it weird and would like to have sex sober. Every time I approach the subject she gets very defensive and says that’s just the way she is.
> 
> Is this normal?


"Even if..."

Well, you are way better then Brad Pitt....you are her husband! :|


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## BIL310

Beach123 said:


> Well... you may want to consider getting a JOB that pays a monthly salary!
> 
> Haven't you ever considered that?
> 
> It is your job to provide a sense of safety and security as a partner in the marriage.
> 
> Go to work every day and earn an amount that provides for your family.
> 
> It's really not right that she's kept you from knowing her feelings - but now that you know - YOU need to do something to provide security. If you don't she will either leave or cheat - or both.
> 
> Drunk sex is just a cover up for her feelings - of not wanting to be in reality.
> 
> 
> She has said she chooses not to BE with you... time for action now! Not next week. Get a job asap!


I do have an income from my current new business


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## SarcasticRed

Needing alcohol to have sex is not normal or healthy. Seems like she has been holding in some strong feelings for a long time and the sex thing is just a symptom. 

If you can, a therapist would be a great investment IF you want to fix your relationship. There is a lot of damage to fix and it may never really be fixed if this is how she has felt for the majority of your relationship. Finding a 'regular' job if you can, even part-time, to guarantee some sort of paycheck might help if your financial situation is bad. I am assuming that it was a joint decision for you to start a new business after the failed one vs. finding a full-time job related to your business, but it might be time to revisit the topic and figure out what is best for the family at this time. 

My husband got one "get out of jail free" card when it came to (un)employment but when the situation got fixed we had a discussion about what I expect to see should he ever be in a similar situation (and what he would expect to see from me). Repeating the same mistakes would not go over well.


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## notmyrealname4

BIL310 said:


> So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.
> 
> She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single.
> 
> I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc.
> 
> She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family.
> 
> She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know.
> 
> Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now.
> 
> She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days.
> 
> I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me.
> 
> The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.




Sorry, that's pretty awful. Best of luck going forward; whether it's a new job, or your own business.

I wonder if the situation was reversed, and *she* wasn't working outside the home, while *you* were if people would be so hard on *her.*

At any rate, hope it all works out.


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## Violet28

BIL310 said:


> So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me..


Then this is where you start if you want to save the marriage, she doesn't feel safe in the relationship and in how you care for her or the family. This causes resentment over time. This is a time for action, don't say something, DO something.



BIL310 said:


> Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single.


This is how your actions have made her feel. She doesn't feel valued by you or that you are 'fully in' with the family.



BIL310 said:


> We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc.


Is this true?



BIL310 said:


> She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family.


This is a below the belt remark probably caused by resentment.



BIL310 said:


> She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know.


Either she's lying or she has not insight, neither are good for your marriage.



BIL310 said:


> Said I’m *like a little boy instead of a man *and feels everything I do is disingenuous.


No woman wants to feel like her husband's mother, she should not have to tell you the right things to do, you are an adult and should know these things already. Start doing them on your own.



BIL310 said:


> *how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan*. I have started a new one but it’s early days.


You are making an excuse right there, there are many ways to make a woman feel safe and protected that are not financial. You can make her feel loved, that you value her, that she's a good mom and wife, emotionally care for her. Be involved with the kids and family activities, make her feel like you are exactly where you want to be when you're with the family.



BIL310 said:


> The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.


So is that your excuse to not change and better yourself?


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## aine

It is not normal but it could be because of

1. she wants to de-stress and loosen up a bit, be a bit more adventurous
2. She does not find you sexually attractive
3. She is stressed about work, kids, household, financials, etc and wants to forget about these things (women do not have the singular focus of men)
4. She is disappointed with you for something you have or have not done and wants to forget about it, alcohol helps numb the invasive thoughts.


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## Edo Edo

BIL310 said:


> So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.
> 
> She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single.
> 
> I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc.
> 
> She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family.
> 
> She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know.
> 
> Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now.
> 
> She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days.
> 
> I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me.
> 
> The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.




That's really rough, man. I'm sorry...


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## Beach123

BIL310 said:


> I do have an income from my current new business


Is it enough EVERY month to support your family? Enough to make it so your wife feels safe and secure?


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## Beach123

Beach123 said:


> Is it enough EVERY month to support your family? Enough to make it so your wife feels safe and secure?


And why would she say that if it was enough every month?

Dude, your wife is like done with you - why are you unwilling to change anything? It's gonna cost you your family/marriage.

Why are you continuing to make excuses knowing she complained about those things? You know you need to change to save the marriage yet you don't seem at all willing to take action in how you participate.

The marriage will not survive if you don't change things.

You also won't get sex or intimacy if you don't become open minded about things you CAN do differently!


----------



## 269370

BIL310 said:


> So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.
> 
> She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single.
> 
> I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc.
> 
> She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family.
> 
> She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know.
> 
> Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now.
> 
> She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days.
> 
> I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me.
> 
> The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.




****. When I told you to get a good whip, it meant to whip HER ass, not the other way around....




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## 269370

Why doesn’t SHE get a job? Are we still in the ‘man must bring deer woman must cook it’ age?
I don’t understand what wanting a good **** has to do with. Maybe he lacks...inspiration to make his business successful because his wife is not ****ing him.
I’m very disappointed in all you feminists, sorry I meant egalitarians 


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## BIL310

I don’t earn enough yet but I don’t much less than I did before. 

I’m certainly willing to change. Regardless of what the future holds for my marriage this needs to happen now.

I’ve never really took interest in our house and I’m not a diy type person however I should be more on the ball in organising jobs to be completed in the house. There are 2-3 things that I know are bugging her and I will get them fixed today.

It’s Halloween soon and we will be getting out the decorations tonight so rather than sit on the couch whilst my wife and kids put them up I will actively participate. 

In the past I’ve also promised things to her that have never materialised. For example my business will earn enough so she doesn’t haven’t to work. Or I’ll keep everything in and then blurt out randomly some bad news about my business. 

You’d think you should be able to share these things with your wife but I suppose when they’ve not materialised or it always seems like bad news it’s not a good thing.

I’m also going to have a word with my parents and tell them the situation and ask for help. My parents are non supporting towards the kids. They will babysit if I ask them but they will never offer just to take them out for the day or even for a couple of hours. After all the years of them asking when we’re having kids this annoys both my wife and me that they never want to spend time with them. Again another source of angst.

My in laws are more supportive but tend to want to spend time with us and kids so we never really get a break. 

There’s plenty to go on this week to start making some changes anyway. It’s my Sons birthday this later this week and he’s having a sleepover with friends so I can pull my weight there also.


----------



## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> Why doesn’t SHE get a job? Are we still in the ‘man must bring deer woman must cook it’ age?
> I don’t understand what wanting a good **** has to do with. Maybe he lacks...inspiration to make his business successful because his wife is not ****ing him.
> I’m very disappointed in all you feminists, sorry I meant egalitarians
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My wife has a job and currently earns more than me.


----------



## Wazza

BIL310 said:


> My wife has a job and currently earns more than me.


So what? Where is it written that the man has to earn more? Do you make a fair contribution to things overall? (Not just the money, other stuff as well).

I certainly think you need a career plan, but if the rule is that you can never have setbacks, that's not very realistic. If the business has been mediocre all the way along, and never delivered, that is different and you need to consider your options. But if you mostly have done well from it, and it recently went bad, then I think you are owed some slack.

Also, is your business a direction she agreed with, or did she object and you went ahead anyway?

Bottom line - are her complaints reasonable? Is she being realistic?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

inmyprime said:


> Why doesn’t SHE get a job? Are we still in the ‘man must bring deer woman must cook it’ age?
> I don’t understand what wanting a good **** has to do with. Maybe he lacks...inspiration to make his business successful because his wife is not ****ing him.
> I’m very disappointed in all you feminists, sorry I meant egalitarians


She *DOES* have a job and from the sounds of it, has likely been carrying the family for years.

You must have MISSED this information in his second post:


BIL310 said:


> She’s definitely not an alcoholic. *She has a very stressful career *and we’ve always had a few drinks ......


We egalitarians and feminists accept your apology.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Is it "normal" to need alcohol for sex?

I doubt it.

Is it sometimes needed in one's life in order to attempt to drink their date pretty?

You betcha.


----------



## BIL310

She'sStillGotIt said:


> inmyprime said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why doesn’t SHE get a job? Are we still in the ‘man must bring deer woman must cook it’ age?
> I don’t understand what wanting a good **** has to do with. Maybe he lacks...inspiration to make his business successful because his wife is not ****ing him.
> I’m very disappointed in all you feminists, sorry I meant egalitarians
> 
> 
> 
> She *DOES* have a job and from the sounds of it, has likely been carrying the family for years.
> 
> You must have MISSED this information in his second post:
> 
> 
> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She’s definitely not an alcoholic. *She has a very stressful career *and we’ve always had a few drinks ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We egalitarians and feminists accept your apology.
Click to expand...

She hasn’t been carrying the family for years. It’s probably the last 4 years or so that she’s starting to earn more than me. For the 16 years before that I was the main earned whilst she studied etc.


----------



## BIL310

Wazza said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife has a job and currently earns more than me.
> 
> 
> 
> So what? Where is it written that the man has to earn more? Do you make a fair contribution to things overall? (Not just the money, other stuff as well).
> 
> I certainly think you need a career plan, but if the rule is that you can never have setbacks, that's not very realistic. If the business has been mediocre all the way along, and never delivered, that is different and you need to consider your options. But if you mostly have done well from it, and it recently went bad, then I think you are owed some slack.
> 
> Also, is your business a direction she agreed with, or did she object and you went ahead anyway?
> 
> Bottom line - are her complaints reasonable? Is she being realistic?
Click to expand...

I agree there’s nothing to say men have to earn more. I’ve never worked for anyone in my life and started my business since I left school. My business closed after 18 years earlier this year due to a couple of bad decisions I made.

She has suggested I get a job but it’s not me. I would never be happy working for somebody else and wouldn’t even know where to start if I tried. I certainly wouldn’t walk into a job paying as much as I can earn from my business now that’s for sure.


----------



## BIL310

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Is it "normal" to need alcohol for sex?
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> Is it sometimes needed in one's life in order to attempt to drink their date pretty?
> 
> You betcha.


You would think that’s the case but you haven’t witnessed my Wife on a Friday when she’s more relaxed even before a drink. Or on holiday in the daytime without alcohol she’s absolutely fine. Not in the sense that she shows me any affection but you can see the stress is no longer there.

The reason why I need to force the issue is because I don’t think it’s normal and if it’s me and the sparks not there anymore then fine I’ll accept it but if it’s a habit she’s got herself into or something she needs to help with libido I want to help her through it. Sitting in silence has done me no good.

She told me that last thing she thinks about at the moment is sex. With the financial issues, and me coming across the way it feels and my Son has also recently been naughty in school it’s not an option. 

I’ve supported my wife through stressful jobs. SHe even left one and had got a relatively easier job albeit on slightly less money and could work from home on Fridays. Perfect working around the kids also regarding time off. She left because she didn’t feel challenged enough. Unfortunately her new employers went into receivership within 3 weeks of her arriving but fortune enough she was offered a job back in the previous unchallenging role which she accepted. She told me that I don’t understand how embarrassing that was for her. 

I don’t think she knows what she wants career wise either. She wants the added money but struggles with the long hours but then finds lesser jobs not challenging. This doesn’t help our marriage but she’s never going to be the type of woman that work stacking shelves in a super market and I don’t say that meaning any disrespect to the ones that do.


----------



## BigDigg

BIL310....Ouch...that conversation with your wife must have been brutal. But give her credit for not pulling punches. Actually useful to know what you are up against and how she really feels vs. trying to protect your ego and feelings.

Right now she's told you she doesn't respect you as a man. Thinks of you as another child. A bit of a dreamer that she can't trust. Someone who doesn't take care of things at home. That's a lethal combination and not surprising that she's not attracted enough to have sex without a drink. A woman has a hard time being attracted to someone she doesn't respect. And sex without attraction and respect will breed resentment. Dangerous death spiral there.

So what will you do? Good idea on starting to organize and pick things up around the house. Do things because they need to be done, not to curry her favor. If she senses that this "new" you is driven to attract her she'll actually lose respect. Be the man of the house and start to take charge on everything, planning, financials, etc. Someone that she can count on who just "gets it" and she doesn't need to worry.

And maybe consider getting a job. Men do what needs to be done sometimes. If financials are tight suck it up and find something that contributes. You can still work on planning for your next business while you earn. Getting a job you don't want shows initiative and maturity. Whatever you do don't assume that you can be a SAHD (especially a useless one) and garner her respect. Nothing wrong with SAHD if that's mutually agreed upon but it's clear that's not the case here.

You've dug yourself a pretty big hole here. I wouldn't push the sex thing at this time and accept you have a lot of climbing to do. Maybe start with the above and earn some momentum first. Hopefully you've caught this in time and can turn the ship around...


----------



## john117

BIL310 said:


> She hasn’t been carrying the family for years. It’s probably the last 4 years or so that she’s starting to earn more than me. For the 16 years before that I was the main earned whilst she studied etc.


Selective memory is your friend


----------



## BIL310

BigDigg said:


> BIL310....Ouch...that conversation with your wife must have been brutal. But give her credit for not pulling punches. Actually useful to know what you are up against and how she really feels vs. trying to protect your ego and feelings.
> 
> Right now she's told you she doesn't respect you as a man. Thinks of you as another child. A bit of a dreamer that she can't trust. Someone who doesn't take care of things at home. That's a lethal combination and not surprising that she's not attracted enough to have sex without a drink. A woman has a hard time being attracted to someone she doesn't respect. And sex without attraction and respect will breed resentment. Dangerous death spiral there.
> 
> So what will you do? Good idea on starting to organize and pick things up around the house. Do things because they need to be done, not to curry her favor. If she senses that this "new" you is driven to attract her she'll actually lose respect. Be the man of the house and start to take charge on everything, planning, financials, etc. Someone that she can count on who just "gets it" and she doesn't need to worry.
> 
> And maybe consider getting a job. Men do what needs to be done sometimes. If financials are tight suck it up and find something that contributes. You can still work on planning for your next business while you earn. Getting a job you don't want shows initiative and maturity. Whatever you do don't assume that you can be a SAHD (especially a useless one) and garner her respect. Nothing wrong with SAHD if that's mutually agreed upon but it's clear that's not the case here.
> 
> You've dug yourself a pretty big hole here. I wouldn't push the sex thing at this time and accept you have a lot of climbing to do. Maybe start with the above and earn some momentum first. Hopefully you've caught this in time and can turn the ship around...


Yes that pretty much sums things up about now. I’m aware of any sudden change pushing her further away. It needs to be done bit by bit. My concern is if I turn around now and say listen I’m going to sort all the financial stuff out and take care of any jobs around the house etc after years of showing no interest would push her further away.

I have a tendency of when I do get something done to actually let her know about it instead of just saying nothing.


----------



## BigDigg

BIL310 said:


> I have a tendency of when I do get something done to actually let her know about it instead of just saying nothing.


I think you get it - very good introspection (good sign). And you've been pretty honest here (helpful!) even though it's tough to admit you've been less than perfect. The time for talking is now over completely and you know where you stand. Only actions speak. Just do these things and never ever do the "look what i did mommy!" thing. Just reinforces that you're another child.

You'll know she's coming around when she initiates more, or does so without alcohol. Don't stop initiating btw (you're a man - be one!) but realize if she turns you down it's because you haven't yet put in the hard work to earn her desire. Time now to fix you...be the best man you can be for you and let the chips fall...


----------



## arbitrator

BIL310 said:


> My wife needs alcohol to have sex. When we first met 20 years ago it was never an issue but for as long as I remember now she needs at least a bottle of wine or something equivalent to want sex.
> 
> We have had sex sober in the last couple of years and she admitted it was better however nothing changed after that. We usually act like passing ships in the night then come Friday or Saturday have a drink together and then we usually end up have sex which I initiate.
> 
> We have two kids and she said to me recently that she’s not highly sexed anymore and even if I was Brad Pitt she’d still need a couple of drinks to have sex.
> 
> I just find it weird and would like to have sex sober. Every time I approach the subject she gets very defensive and says that’s just the way she is.
> 
> Is this normal?


*My RSXW always had to have alcohol, albeit a daily drinking regimen of Wine Coolers, White Zinfandel, or Baileys Irish Creme, to have sex, or for that matter, to even function!

IMHO, a closet alcoholic! I didn't feel the genuineness of having sex with someone who I smelled reeking alcoholic fumes emanating from! I haven't had sex with a woman since and that's been several years ago!

I too, before I die, would love to make love to a sober, caring, loving woman!*


----------



## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> We egalitarians and feminists accept your apology.






To you, as my no1 favourite feminist, I am prepared to apologise all day long. 
As long as my dinner arrives on time   


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## Tron

She has got a LOT OF RESENTMENT built up.

Not sure yet, how much of that is justified.

Hopefully you don't have an entitled princess on your hands.



BIL310 said:


> I don’t earn enough yet but I don’t much less than I did before.
> 
> I’m certainly willing to change. Regardless of what the future holds for my marriage this needs to happen now.
> 
> I’ve never really took interest in our house and I’m not a diy type person however I should be more on the ball in organising jobs to be completed in the house. There are 2-3 things that I know are bugging her and I will get them fixed today.
> 
> It’s Halloween soon and we will be getting out the decorations tonight so rather than sit on the couch whilst my wife and kids put them up I will actively participate.


Great idea. That should become second nature. Part of being a "man" not a "boy". Might want to read Married Man's Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. It talks a lot about this.



BIL310 said:


> In the past I’ve also promised things to her that have never materialised. For example my business will earn enough so she doesn’t haven’t to work. Or I’ll keep everything in and then blurt out randomly some bad news about my business.


Stop making promises that you can't keep. AND I think her expectations for a free ride are total BS! Why is your business supposed to earn so much that she doesn't have to work? Because to me it sounds like you put her through school. She doesn't get to complain now because her job is high stress. She chose her career path, she needs to live with that decision.



BIL310 said:


> You’d think you should be able to share these things with your wife but I suppose when they’ve not materialised or it always seems like bad news it’s not a good thing.


Sounds like there has been a lot of bad news of late. It is what it is. You've made decisions to change it and are following through... You've found a place to start.



BIL310 said:


> I’m also going to have a word with my parents and tell them the situation and ask for help. My parents are non supporting towards the kids. They will babysit if I ask them but they will never offer just to take them out for the day or even for a couple of hours. After all the years of them asking when we’re having kids this annoys both my wife and me that they never want to spend time with them. Again another source of angst.
> 
> My in laws are more supportive but tend to want to spend time with us and kids so we never really get a break.
> 
> There’s plenty to go on this week to start making some changes anyway. It’s my Sons birthday this later this week and he’s having a sleepover with friends so I can pull my weight there also.


:smthumbup:


----------



## BIL310

It’s going to be a long process this. We’ve got all the Halloween stuff out to set up. My oldest child wanted to take a quick picture of a skeleton but my Wife wanted to wipe the stuff down first. Needless to say my child nagged until my wife raised her voice angrily and said oh just do what you want.

Then she went upstairs. I was upstairs and said about getting something to wipe the stuff down to which she scornfully replied No, I’ll do it myself I just wish everyone would let me do it the way I want. I can’t even be bothered doing it now anyway. 

Haha. Can’t win. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

aine said:


> It is not normal but it could be because of
> 
> 1. she wants to de-stress and loosen up a bit, be a bit more adventurous
> 2. She does not find you sexually attractive
> 3. She is stressed about work, kids, household, financials, etc and wants to forget about these things (women do not have the singular focus of men)
> 4. She is disappointed with you for something you have or have not done and wants to forget about it, alcohol helps numb the invasive thoughts.


You forgot 5. She's got a man on the side. Lack of sex, marriage re-write, wife is breadwinner, argumentative, etc. The red flags are there so it's at least a possibility.

@BIL310 ,
A
Since no one else said anything about it, if you plan to stay on **** ***** get a divorce. You think your wife is pissy and cold now, let her find that and you'll be in a world of **** you never could have imagined. Very dumb move. If that's the way your decision making works all the time it's no wonder you are where you are.


----------



## turnera

It depends on her background. I'm sexually averse due to earlier issues so I needed it to relax that instant fight or flight response.


----------



## BIL310

Rubix Cubed said:


> aine said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not normal but it could be because of
> 
> 1. she wants to de-stress and loosen up a bit, be a bit more adventurous
> 2. She does not find you sexually attractive
> 3. She is stressed about work, kids, household, financials, etc and wants to forget about these things (women do not have the singular focus of men)
> 4. She is disappointed with you for something you have or have not done and wants to forget about it, alcohol helps numb the invasive thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot 5. She's got a man on the side. Lack of sex, marriage re-write, wife is breadwinner, argumentative, etc. The red flags are there so it's at least a possibility.
> 
> @BIL310 ,
> A
> Since no one else said anything about it, if you plan to stay on **** ***** get a divorce. You think your wife is pissy and cold now, let her find that and you'll be in a world of **** you never could have imagined. Very dumb move. If that's the way your decision making works all the time it's no wonder you are where you are.
Click to expand...

I only went on the website for 10 minutes and have been on since. I want to work on
on my marriage before going down the separation/divorce route.

She’s not got anyone else on the side as far as I’m aware. But one can never be 100% sure.


----------



## BIL310

I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me. 

Try and turn the tables a bit.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

BIL310 said:


> I only went on the website for 10 minutes and have been on since. I want to work on
> on my marriage before going down the separation/divorce route.
> 
> She’s not got anyone else on the side as far as I’m aware. But one can never be 100% sure.


Yeah, you wouldn't be aware, that's kind of the point, but let's hope that's not the issue. If you were concerned you'd look for blocks of time where she was gone longer than should be, or with weird excuses, keeping her phone glued to her constantly, passwords to lock down all of her electronics, dressing different, etc.. You could also look at your phone bill for an inordinate amount of calls or texts to the same number. Never hurts to check, but the things I listed are definitely red flags for cheating but they could just as well be signs of a fed up wife that's reached her limit.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

BIL310 said:


> I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me.
> 
> Try and turn the tables a bit.


Game playing is more likely to backfire on you than not.


----------



## BIL310

Rubix Cubed said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me.
> 
> Try and turn the tables a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Game playing is more likely to backfire on you than not.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t call it game playing more about not doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.


----------



## 269370

BIL310 said:


> It’s going to be a long process this. We’ve got all the Halloween stuff out to set up. My oldest child wanted to take a quick picture of a skeleton but my Wife wanted to wipe the stuff down first. Needless to say my child nagged until my wife raised her voice angrily and said oh just do what you want.
> 
> Then she went upstairs. I was upstairs and said about getting something to wipe the stuff down to which she scornfully replied No, I’ll do it myself I just wish everyone would let me do it the way I want. I can’t even be bothered doing it now anyway.
> 
> Haha. Can’t win. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.




Control issues


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----------



## Bananapeel

So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.

If you can't stand up TO your wife then you can stand up FOR your wife, which is why she doesn't feel protected. Her leading the household and making all the decisions puts you at a subservient position. If you want to change your outcome you need to fix this and step up. 

She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single. 

Is this true? Do you want to be single? If so it's OK to admit it and change your situation. 

I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc. 

Is this true? If so, why does it happen? What do you claim your priorities are and do you act according to them or against them? 

She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family. 

As a man you should be driven and motivated to do things for yourself and you family gets the benefit from it rather than doing it for them. That's what being driven means. If you are doing it for her then you are doing it for approval rather than being motivated. 

She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know. 

It's because she's not attracted to you not because she isn't happy. The lack of attraction stems from the things you mentioned. 

Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now. 

You need to act like a man and develop your own purpose in life and work towards it rather than doing things to please her. 

She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days. 

You do things for yourself. Failure is part of the game so you learn to live with it and use it to motivate yourself and improve. 

I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me. 

Stop caring. Seriously. Then go and chase after your own dreams. 

The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.

Don't worry about pleasing her anymore. She shouldn't be your focus and then you won't seem disingenuous because you won't be doing it to please her.


----------



## BIL310

Bananapeel said:


> So I’ve just had a heart to heart with my wife. She basically told me that over the years she’s never felt protected by me.
> 
> If you can't stand up TO your wife then you can stand up FOR your wife, which is why she doesn't feel protected. Her leading the household and making all the decisions puts you at a subservient position. If you want to change your outcome you need to fix this and step up.
> 
> She tore me to shreds to be honest. Some of it was correct some of it I didn’t agree with. Says I come across as someone who’s never happy with what he’s got and I want to be single.
> 
> Is this true? Do you want to be single? If so it's OK to admit it and change your situation.
> 
> I said I find it hard to read her and she says she’s not changed it’s me who has. We returned from a 6 day holiday with her parents yesterday and she said all I wanted to do is go to the beach bars and didn’t want to spend time as family etc.
> 
> Is this true? If so, why does it happen? What do you claim your priorities are and do you act according to them or against them?
> 
> She said Years ago when we first met other people said I was no good for her as she was an academic and I was from a roughish area. She told them I was driven etc but the last few months maybe I’ve proven them right. At the moment I’ve put us in the financial **** with my failed business although everything I’ve tried I did it for our family.
> 
> As a man you should be driven and motivated to do things for yourself and you family gets the benefit from it rather than doing it for them. That's what being driven means. If you are doing it for her then you are doing it for approval rather than being motivated.
> 
> She then said maybe the sober sex thing is because she’s never been happy. She doesn’t know.
> 
> It's because she's not attracted to you not because she isn't happy. The lack of attraction stems from the things you mentioned.
> 
> Said I’m like a little boy instead of a man and feels everything I do is disingenuous. I’m glad it’s come to head but I’m not sure how If I can turn this around now.
> 
> You need to act like a man and develop your own purpose in life and work towards it rather than doing things to please her.
> 
> She’s obviously deeply unhappy and how can a man make a woman feel protected etc when my business has just got down the pan. I have started a new one but it’s early days.
> 
> You do things for yourself. Failure is part of the game so you learn to live with it and use it to motivate yourself and improve.
> 
> I don’t want to come across the way I’ve been doing to her and hate myself for feeling this way about me.
> 
> Stop caring. Seriously. Then go and chase after your own dreams.
> 
> The thing is if I started doing stuff now to change to the type of person I want to be iis actually going to seem disingenuous.
> 
> Don't worry about pleasing her anymore. She shouldn't be your focus and then you won't seem disingenuous because you won't be doing it to please her.


No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?


----------



## turnera

BIL310 said:


> I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me.
> 
> Try and turn the tables a bit.


You mean, manipulation?


----------



## turnera

BIL310 said:


> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?


The only decisions he should make are what to surprise her with for birthday and Christmas. Aside from that, they should all be joint decisions.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? It will help you figure out what's going on.


----------



## Violet28

BIL310 said:


> It’s going to be a long process this. We’ve got all the Halloween stuff out to set up. My oldest child wanted to take a quick picture of a skeleton but my Wife wanted to wipe the stuff down first. Needless to say my child nagged until my wife raised her voice angrily and said oh just do what you want.
> 
> Then she went upstairs. I was upstairs and said about getting something to wipe the stuff down to which she scornfully replied No, I’ll do it myself I just wish everyone would let me do it the way I want. I can’t even be bothered doing it now anyway.
> 
> Haha. Can’t win. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.


This would have been a good time to take control of the situation. Manage the whiny child, continue to work with her on setting up the Halloween stuff. Or take some initiative and do it yourself.


----------



## Violet28

BIL310 said:


> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?


The man leads the family, he receives respect and he earns it through his actions. He is the protector of the family, the barrier between his wife the outside world, the safe place. A man takes initiative and does not wait to be told what needs to be done by his wife. He takes an active role in parenting and caring for the family's needs, not just financial. He is a protector, a provider, a teacher and a leader.


----------



## Dusk

No, obviously not. Sex with you is bad for her for some reason. You need to find out why.


----------



## Beach123

BIL310 said:


> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?


Do you really not know this?

You don't make any decisions within the marriage?

You need counseling - long term help to guide you in the area of what a healthy man's role is within a marriage.

Are you willing to do that?


----------



## BIL310

Beach123 said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really not know this?
> 
> You don't make any decisions within the marriage?
> 
> You need counseling - long term help to guide you in the area of what a healthy man's role is within a marriage.
> 
> Are you willing to do that?
Click to expand...

I make some decisions of course. I was specifically referring to what the man should make.


----------



## BIL310

Violet28 said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s going to be a long process this. We’ve got all the Halloween stuff out to set up. My oldest child wanted to take a quick picture of a skeleton but my Wife wanted to wipe the stuff down first. Needless to say my child nagged until my wife raised her voice angrily and said oh just do what you want.
> 
> Then she went upstairs. I was upstairs and said about getting something to wipe the stuff down to which she scornfully replied No, I’ll do it myself I just wish everyone would let me do it the way I want. I can’t even be bothered doing it now anyway.
> 
> Haha. Can’t win. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
> 
> 
> 
> This would have been a good time to take control of the situation. Manage the whiny child, continue to work with her on setting up the Halloween stuff. Or take some initiative and do it yourself.
Click to expand...

In my opinion the child wasn’t being whiny. He only wanted to take a quick picture and my wife said later on she shouldn’t have shouted him. My wife can be very highly strung. She even snaps at her own Mum from time to time.

Should I have still taken your advice in this situation? I think if my wife says no to the child it means no regardless of who is right or wrong I suppose.


----------



## BIL310

turnera said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> The only decisions he should make are what to surprise her with for birthday and Christmas. Aside from that, they should all be joint decisions.
> 
> Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? It will help you figure out what's going on.
Click to expand...

Yes I read it before and have got a better insight now. I’m currently reading Married life sex primer which is also good.


----------



## BIL310

I think there is another issue my Wife is dealing with. After studying and qualifying in her chosen career I don’t think she actually likes it. She has some good weeks but more often than not she has had a hard week.

In addition that I have one sister and a brother. My older brother has a good job and his partner doesn’t work. She’s a house mom. My wife is always making comments to me about this, oh look Sarah has gone and bought $400 pair of of shoes, hasn’t even got a job. Their house is bigger than ours and they don’t have debt like we do.

I think on some level my wife is envious of this and maybe thinks she wishes she had this type of life instead of having to get up at 6.30am in the dark to do a 10 hour day. Don’t get me the wrong this Sarah doesn’t have any academic qualifications like my wife. She’s set herself up to find a man with money who can support her and kids. 

It’s not fault that my wife chose the career path she did but I certainly think over the years she’s got frustrated that the situation.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BIL310 said:


> In my opinion the child wasn’t being whiny. He only wanted to take a quick picture and my wife said later on she shouldn’t have shouted him. My wife can be very highly strung. She even snaps at her own Mum from time to time.
> 
> Should I have still taken your advice in this situation?* I think *if my wife says no to the child it means no regardless of who is right or wrong *I suppose.*


Damn, that's some weak **** right there.


----------



## turnera

BIL310 said:


> In my opinion the child wasn’t being whiny. He only wanted to take a quick picture and my wife said later on she shouldn’t have shouted him. My wife can be very highly strung. She even snaps at her own Mum from time to time.
> 
> Should I have still taken your advice in this situation? I think if my wife says no to the child it means no regardless of who is right or wrong I suppose.


IMO you should have supported your wife. She wasn't doing anything wrong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching your kids to have a little patience, and there's nothing wrong with teaching your kids that the world doesn't revolve around them. She probably had legitimate concerns about bugs or germs or something before her kid touched it.

Unless your wife is just wrong, you should support her decisions, especially to the kids.


----------



## turnera

BIL310 said:


> I think there is another issue my Wife is dealing with. After studying and qualifying in her chosen career I don’t think she actually likes it. She has some good weeks but more often than not she has had a hard week.
> 
> In addition that I have one sister and a brother. My older brother has a good job and his partner doesn’t work. She’s a house mom. My wife is always making comments to me about this, oh look Sarah has gone and bought $400 pair of of shoes, hasn’t even got a job. Their house is bigger than ours and they don’t have debt like we do.
> 
> I think on some level my wife is envious of this and maybe thinks she wishes she had this type of life instead of having to get up at 6.30am in the dark to do a 10 hour day. Don’t get me the wrong this Sarah doesn’t have any academic qualifications like my wife. She’s set herself up to find a man with money who can support her and kids.
> 
> It’s not fault that my wife chose the career path she did but I certainly think over the years she’s got frustrated that the situation.


That's the exact kind of thing you should be discussing with her. She married you so you could be her best friend, her supporter, the one she can talk to about her feelings. How often does that happen? How often do you just ask her how her day is going, how she's feeling, is she fulfilled, does she wish you made more money?


----------



## Bananapeel

BIL310 said:


> I think there is another issue my Wife is dealing with. After studying and qualifying in her chosen career I don’t think she actually likes it. She has some good weeks but more often than not she has had a hard week.
> 
> In addition that I have one sister and a brother. My older brother has a good job and his partner doesn’t work. She’s a house mom. My wife is always making comments to me about this, oh look Sarah has gone and bought $400 pair of of shoes, hasn’t even got a job. Their house is bigger than ours and they don’t have debt like we do.
> 
> I think on some level my wife is envious of this and maybe thinks she wishes she had this type of life instead of having to get up at 6.30am in the dark to do a 10 hour day. Don’t get me the wrong this Sarah doesn’t have any academic qualifications like my wife. She’s set herself up to find a man with money who can support her and kids.
> 
> It’s not fault that my wife chose the career path she did but I certainly think over the years she’s got frustrated that the situation.


This is just an excuse so you can justify her behavior, but it is not what the issue really is. You don't have proper relationship polarity with your wife which is causing her dissatisfaction. What this means is she wants you to have the traditional leadership role in the relationship but you want her to take that role and she resents you for it.



BIL310 said:


> No I don’t want to be single. What sort of decisions should the man make in the relationship?


You shouldn't have to ask this if you want to be a leader. You are in charge of whatever part of the relationship you want to be in charge of, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

You have a few major issues in your relationship that you need to address. First you don't know how to talk with your wife, second you don't really understand the heart of the matter when she talks to you, third you lack the drive to take control of your life. I recommend reading how to be a 3% man by Corey Wayne.


----------



## minimalME

Bananapeel said:


> This is just an excuse so you can justify her behavior, but it is not what the issue really is. You don't have proper relationship polarity with your wife which is causing her dissatisfaction. What this means is she wants you to have the traditional leadership role in the relationship but you want her to take that role and she resents you for it.


This was the exact dynamic in my marriage.


----------



## Violet28

BIL310 said:


> In my opinion the child wasn’t being whiny. He only wanted to take a quick picture and my wife said later on she shouldn’t have shouted him. My wife can be very highly strung. She even snaps at her own Mum from time to time.
> 
> Should I have still taken your advice in this situation? I think if my wife says no to the child it means no regardless of who is right or wrong I suppose.


You said he was nagging, that is your place to intervene before it gets to where your wife is snapping at him. If she already said no, then at that point you have to back her up. My point is that you don't have to wait to until she says no to take charge of the situation. It's your house, your kid and your decorations too, there are a million ways to lead.


----------



## BIL310

turnera said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is another issue my Wife is dealing with. After studying and qualifying in her chosen career I don’t think she actually likes it. She has some good weeks but more often than not she has had a hard week.
> 
> In addition that I have one sister and a brother. My older brother has a good job and his partner doesn’t work. She’s a house mom. My wife is always making comments to me about this, oh look Sarah has gone and bought $400 pair of of shoes, hasn’t even got a job. Their house is bigger than ours and they don’t have debt like we do.
> 
> I think on some level my wife is envious of this and maybe thinks she wishes she had this type of life instead of having to get up at 6.30am in the dark to do a 10 hour day. Don’t get me the wrong this Sarah doesn’t have any academic qualifications like my wife. She’s set herself up to find a man with money who can support her and kids.
> 
> It’s not fault that my wife chose the career path she did but I certainly think over the years she’s got frustrated that the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the exact kind of thing you should be discussing with her. She married you so you could be her best friend, her supporter, the one she can talk to about her feelings. How often does that happen? How often do you just ask her how her day is going, how she's feeling, is she fulfilled, does she wish you made more money?
Click to expand...

We always have these conversations to be honest. She’s never come home from work and had a great day. She’ll often ring or message me most days and say how bad the commute was or how everyone is miserable in work. Hates the place.

It’s happened at every job she’s had.

Of course like most wives she wants me to earn more money and I’m trying.


----------



## BIL310

Violet28 said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion the child wasn’t being whiny. He only wanted to take a quick picture and my wife said later on she shouldn’t have shouted him. My wife can be very highly strung. She even snaps at her own Mum from time to time.
> 
> Should I have still taken your advice in this situation? I think if my wife says no to the child it means no regardless of who is right or wrong I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> You said he was nagging, that is your place to intervene before it gets to where your wife is snapping at him. If she already said no, then at that point you have to back her up. My point is that you don't have to wait to until she says no to take charge of the situation. It's your house, your kid and your decorations too, there are a million ways to lead.
Click to expand...

I agree. I’ve been taking charge in a couple ways with the kids the last two days and the difference has been dramatic. Namely morning and bed time routines. I told my wife if I say no to something and they come running to ask you, your response should be if your dad said no it means no.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

inmyprime said:


> To you, as my no1 favourite feminist, I am prepared to apologise all day long.
> As long as my dinner arrives on time


As it shall...I'm a wonderful cook. :grin2:


----------



## CharlieParker

She'sStillGotIt said:


> As it shall...I'm a wonderful cook. :grin2:


We have a thread for that. Just sayin`.


----------



## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> As it shall...I'm a wonderful cook. :grin2:




A feminist AND a great cook! Is there anything you CAN’T do? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananapeel

BIL310 said:


> We always have these conversations to be honest. She’s never come home from work and had a great day. She’ll often ring or message me most days and say how bad the commute was or how everyone is miserable in work. Hates the place.
> 
> It’s happened at every job she’s had.
> 
> Of course like most wives she wants me to earn more money and I’m trying.


Here's more of your problem. When she comes home from a bad day she's ready to relax and just let you take charge so her stress can melt away. But instead she goes from being in charge at work to being in charge at home and not getting that dynamic that she needs to relax. That's why she wants the relationship polarity with you taking charge.

My GF has days with lots of stress too but since we maintain a traditional relationship polarity she's able to decompress and de-stress by talking with me. The funny thing is that the more you maintain a relationship polarity the less you have to actually "do". I don't have to fix her problems, propose any solutions, or change anything, all I have to do is listen and be a calm foundation of support.

In your instance the money really isn't the problem but is just something she's criticizing you about because she isn't getting the relationship dynamic she wants.


----------



## turnera

What is her degree in? There are often ways to segue into other types of careers, if she hates what she's doing. You could be a hero if you can help her figure out how to do that.


----------



## [email protected]

A lot of them just need a bit of alcohol to relax.


----------



## AliceA

BIL310 said:


> We always have these conversations to be honest. She’s never come home from work and had a great day. She’ll often ring or message me most days and say how bad the commute was or how everyone is miserable in work. Hates the place.
> 
> It’s happened at every job she’s had.
> 
> Of course like most wives she wants me to earn more money and I’m trying.


Sounds like she's guilty of the same thing she accused you of, which is never being happy with what she's got.

As for the last bit, it's more about balance imo. You mentioned having previously earned good money, but I didn't see a mention of how many hours you would generally work for it (maybe I missed that). Some self employed people work ridiculous hours and then everything else falls to their partner. So from the point of view of the person holding 50 balls up in the air, they are doing all that so their partner can spend their life working for a really crap hourly wage.


----------



## hinterdir

No, it isn't normal and even further it isn't normal for humans to NEED alcohol for any normal human function.


----------



## personofinterest

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by BIL310 View Post
> I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me.
> 
> Try and turn the tables a bit.
> Game playing is more likely to backfire on you than not.
> *I wouldn’t call it game playing more about not doing the same things over and over again and expecting different result*s


Nope. It's game playing.

Are you often passive aggressive?


----------



## Wazza

Beach123 said:


> Do you really not know this?
> 
> You don't make any decisions within the marriage?
> 
> You need counseling - long term help to guide you in the area of what a healthy man's role is within a marriage.
> 
> Are you willing to do that?


This is pure gender stereotype. 

Each marriage is individual. Who does what in a marriage is shaped in part by the interests and skills of the participants. Now, if you are being lazy and tasks are being neglected, that's one thing, but if the expectation is that you will conform to someone else's notion of a man's role and priorities, then I would reset the expectation. 

You've built a business. Not everyone can do that. It went bad. Maybe you made some dumb decisions, or maybe you just took a risk and it didn't play out, and now you are beating yourself up. But you didn't sit there mourning. You got back into it, have established something new, are already making more than you could make as an employee, and are working to improve things further. You should be proud of your resilience, not ashamed of your setbacks. Everyone has setbacks sometimes. It's how you respond to them that shows what you are made of.

For most of the marriage you have earned more than your wife. Recently she is making more than you, which she can do because you supported and funded her education. If, as you speculate, part of the problem is that she hates her job.....well who made the choices that put her there? If she wants you to take a different career path so she can quit her job and still have the money she wants, whose attitude sounds more like that of an entitled teenager rather than an adult? If she wants a career change, let her drive it, and make some realistic decisions with full awareness of the consequences. That's not being mean...it's actually supporting her in processing the realities of her situation. Have you asked her how she feels about work? Maybe just getting her to talk will help her to start processing things. Get the kids minded, take her somewhere nice for dinner, and just let her talk.

Don't get me wrong. It's good to be introspective. It's good to look for ways to improve yourself. But not everything is your fault. Sometimes the other person has work to do, whether they see it or not. And if the real problem is in the other person's head, nothing you do will every be good enough, and your efforts are just going to delay the moment when you confront the real issue.


----------



## BIL310

personofinterest said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by BIL310 View Post
> I’m almost certain regardless of what was said last night the next time we have a drink on a Friday or Saturday night she’ll be expecting me to initiate sex and she’ll want it. An option I’ve been reading up on is to refrain from initiating sex even after we’ve had drink together. Not in a cold way more in just be a lot happier than I have been so she’s maybe thinks what he’s up to. Why’s he been so happy and not pestering me.
> 
> Try and turn the tables a bit.
> Game playing is more likely to backfire on you than not.
> *I wouldn’t call it game playing more about not doing the same things over and over again and expecting different result*s
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. It's game playing.
> 
> Are you often passive aggressive?
Click to expand...

No I usually just say what I feel.


----------



## BIL310

Wazza said:


> Beach123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really not know this?
> 
> You don't make any decisions within the marriage?
> 
> You need counseling - long term help to guide you in the area of what a healthy man's role is within a marriage.
> 
> Are you willing to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> This is pure gender stereotype.
> 
> Each marriage is individual. Who does what in a marriage is shaped in part by the interests and skills of the participants. Now, if you are being lazy and tasks are being neglected, that's one thing, but if the expectation is that you will conform to someone else's notion of a man's role and priorities, then I would reset the expectation.
> 
> You've built a business. Not everyone can do that. It went bad. Maybe you made some dumb decisions, or maybe you just took a risk and it didn't play out, and now you are beating yourself up. But you didn't sit there mourning. You got back into it, have established something new, are already making more than you could make as an employee, and are working to improve things further. You should be proud of your resilience, not ashamed of your setbacks. Everyone has setbacks sometimes. It's how you respond to them that shows what you are made of.
> 
> For most of the marriage you have earned more than your wife. Recently she is making more than you, which she can do because you supported and funded her education. If, as you speculate, part of the problem is that she hates her job.....well who made the choices that put her there? If she wants you to take a different career path so she can quit her job and still have the money she wants, whose attitude sounds more like that of an entitled teenager rather than an adult? If she wants a career change, let her drive it, and make some realistic decisions with full awareness of the consequences. That's not being mean...it's actually supporting her in processing the realities of her situation. Have you asked her how she feels about work? Maybe just getting her to talk will help her to start processing things. Get the kids minded, take her somewhere nice for dinner, and just let her talk.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. It's good to be introspective. It's good to look for ways to improve yourself. But not everything is your fault. Sometimes the other person has work to do, whether they see it or not. And if the real problem is in the other person's head, nothing you do will every be good enough, and your efforts are just going to delay the moment when you confront the real issue.
Click to expand...

Yes I can relate to this. Don’t get me wrong however my Wife isn’t saying I need to earn more money so she can quit her job.

I know she actually hasn’t enjoyed any jobs she’s had for the last 5-10 years even though the money has been good. It’s like when the weekend arrives she has to de-stress from the week. It’s strange. 

Throughout the week she is like a coiled spring. Even her Mum says she sometimes pulls faces likes she’s sucked a lemon. 
She’s very highly strung. Snaps easily. Come Friday night after even 1-2 drinks and a cigarette she starts to relax and woman I fell in love with can be seen again. It’s during those times I feel like I can say more how I feel.

Then Sunday night arrives and around 9pm the work dread face comes back and every so often she starts sighing. I just tend to stay away from her during this time.


----------



## turnera

Did you think about what I said about helping her find a different career?


----------



## BIL310

turnera said:


> Did you think about what I said about helping her find a different career?


Yes I will discuss this with her when the time is right. At the moment she’s still withdrawn and unhappy from our conversation the other night. 

If I approach the subject now and she’s more than likely going to say something like “Whether I like it or not I need to continue what I’m doing because the financial **** where in”.

She’s very up and down. For instance yesterday as she was lying on the couch next to me then she put her feet on my lap. Then in bed I she was lying facing away so I gave her a hug from behind but she was curled up tight. Then said I’m still upset with you.

She started her period yesterday so that’s probably not helping with her mood.


----------



## Beach123

BIL310 said:


> We always have these conversations to be honest. She’s never come home from work and had a great day. She’ll often ring or message me most days and say how bad the commute was or how everyone is miserable in work. Hates the place.
> 
> It’s happened at every job she’s had.
> 
> Of course like most wives she wants me to earn more money and I’m trying.


I'm baffled why you don't just get a job and earn money?

You state clearly that's what she wants so get a new job.

Instead you start ANOTHER business that has no guarantee of earning money.


She's also stated she doesn't feel safe within the marriage.

Getting a solid paying job would provide her that security!


Why won't you do this for her?


----------



## BIL310

Beach123 said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We always have these conversations to be honest. She’s never come home from work and had a great day. She’ll often ring or message me most days and say how bad the commute was or how everyone is miserable in work. Hates the place.
> 
> It’s happened at every job she’s had.
> 
> Of course like most wives she wants me to earn more money and I’m trying.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm baffled why you don't just get a job and earn money?
> 
> You state clearly that's what she wants so get a new job.
> 
> Instead you start ANOTHER business that has no guarantee of earning money.
> 
> 
> She's also stated she doesn't feel safe within the marriage.
> 
> Getting a solid paying job would provide her that security!
> 
> 
> Why won't you do this for her?
Click to expand...

I earn around £40,000 a year after tax which isn’t much less than my wife. I’ve never worked for anybody in my life and I’m nearly 40 years of age.

Add to the fact with no qualifications I’m not going to walk into a job on that sort of money anyway. When I say I started a new business I simply put the old one into liquidation and continued with a new one without the debts of the old business dragging it down.

My job working from home also means I’m flexible for school runs and any issues that arrive with kids. If we both worked full time they’d end up in breakfast club, school then after school club until 5/6pm every day.

I’ll always strive to earn more money but there are other ways to make her feel safe in a marriage which I’m working on.


----------



## Wazza

Beach123 said:


> I'm baffled why you don't just get a job and earn money?
> 
> You state clearly that's what she wants so get a new job.
> 
> Instead you start ANOTHER business that has no guarantee of earning money.
> 
> 
> She's also stated she doesn't feel safe within the marriage.
> 
> Getting a solid paying job would provide her that security!
> 
> 
> Why won't you do this for her?


A solid paying job is just a different type of insecurity. No guarantee. It just puts someone else in control of your destiny.


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## john117

Don't take this the wrong way but the rest of humanity with similar qualifications has the same idea. Work from home, my own business, blah blah. Except it doesn't quite work for everyone.

The rest of us 9 to 5 corporate drones who go to the office daily aren't any happier having to work  but that's life. If you sign up for marriage you got to do what it takes to get financially stable and stay stable.


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## BIL310

john117 said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but the rest of humanity with similar qualifications has the same idea. Work from home, my own business, blah blah. Except it doesn't quite work for everyone.
> 
> The rest of us 9 to 5 corporate drones who go to the office daily aren't any happier having to work  but that's life. If you sign up for marriage you got to do what it takes to get financially stable and stay stable.


I very much doubt I’ll ever be the person who works for somebody else. That’s just not me. If I did I’d only be going completely against what I stand for. A couple of bad decisions is not a valid reason to throw away nearly 20 years in business for myself to get a job when I earn pretty decent money now.

I’m prepared to work on my marriage but no woman is worth ever changing yourself for. 

I know there’s things I can improve on in the relationship that I actually agree with but if you really need to change who you are and what you believe in to please a woman you’ll never live the one life you have to it’s fullest.


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## turnera

BIL310 said:


> Yes I will discuss this with her when the time is right. At the moment she’s still withdrawn and unhappy from our conversation the other night.
> 
> If I approach the subject now and she’s more than likely going to say something like “Whether I like it or not I need to continue what I’m doing because the financial **** we're in”.


IMO, that's the perfect time. "Babe, I get it, but I can't stand seeing you so unhappy. We'll figure the money out but we have to get you into something you enjoy doing first. Once we do that, I can look at ways to bring in more money and give us a safety net."


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## turnera

BIL310 said:


> I’ll always strive to earn more money but there are other ways to make her feel safe in a marriage which I’m working on.


One, how can you earn more money specifically, and why aren't you doing them NOW, and two, what other ways are you working on to make her feel safe, specifically?


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## BIL310

turnera said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ll always strive to earn more money but there are other ways to make her feel safe in a marriage which I’m working on.
> 
> 
> 
> One, how can you earn more money specifically, and why aren't you doing them NOW, and two, what other ways are you working on to make her feel safe, specifically?
Click to expand...

I earn more money by increasing sales in my business. Which is what I actively do on a daily basis.

On the other side of things I’m doing more around the house without being told, being authoritative with our children instead of allowing them play us against each other and generally being a more happy and positive person.


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## Beach123

You say you make good money... and your wife is only happy on her days off.

Do you make enough so she can quit working?


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## 269370

john117 said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but the rest of humanity with similar qualifications has the same idea. Work from home, my own business, blah blah. Except it doesn't quite work for everyone.
> 
> The rest of us 9 to 5 corporate drones who go to the office daily aren't any happier having to work  but that's life. If you sign up for marriage you got to do what it takes to get financially stable and stay stable.



I have never worked for anyone in my life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

Beach123 said:


> You say you make good money... and your wife is only happy on her days off.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you make enough so she can quit working?




Why does she need to quit working?
Maybe she needs to quit whining 
He has an above average salary (quite a bit above), what’s the problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BIL310

Beach123 said:


> You say you make good money... and your wife is only happy on her days off.
> 
> Do you make enough so she can quit working?


Unfortunately not. But my wife is a career women with a well paid job so it’s not just a case of covering part time supermarket salary in addition my own. Although it’s something I’m actively trying to achieve so at least it’s an option.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> Unfortunately not. But my wife is a career women with a well paid job so it’s not just a case of covering part time supermarket salary in addition my own. Although it’s something I’m actively trying to achieve so at least it’s an option.



Well it’s her choice to work or not to work (or how much to work). It’s also her choice to moan about it. It’s also your choice whether you want to continue listening to her moan about it. Sounds like she’s unhappy with herself. Drinking isn’t gonna make it go away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> BIL310 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not. But my wife is a career women with a well paid job so it’s not just a case of covering part time supermarket salary in addition my own. Although it’s something I’m actively trying to achieve so at least it’s an option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it’s her choice to work or not to work (or how much to work). It’s also her choice to moan about it. It’s also your choice whether you want to continue listening to her moan about it. Sounds like she’s unhappy with herself. Drinking isn’t gonna make it go away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Very true!


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## turnera

inmyprime said:


> Why does she need to quit working?
> Maybe she needs to quit whining
> He has an above average salary (quite a bit above), what’s the problem?


L 40k is above average? Do people earn less over there? In the US, that's average or even starter salary.


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## 269370

turnera said:


> L 40k is above average? Do people earn less over there? In the US, that's average or even starter salary.



$56k looks like average household income in US. 
£27k ($35k) is individual average income in UK.

Taxation and insurance are a bit different for UK and US so I think what’s left after all the taxes and insurance contributions will be about the same.



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## Wazza

BIL310 said:


> Unfortunately not. But my wife is a career women with a well paid job so it’s not just a case of covering part time supermarket salary in addition my own. Although it’s something I’m actively trying to achieve so at least it’s an option.


It might be stating the obvious, but you have two ways to attack this. One is to increase your income and the other is to cut your expenditure. I imagine you are already focussing on that if things are tight, but depending on your tastes it might be surprising how little you actually suffer as a result. Can those economies be permanent?

If your wife manages the money, maybe give her the challenge to manage expenditure down. Having said that, I personally think most people need purpose, and work is one of the places we find that. If your wife is going to think about this, I would encourage her to think about a change of career, rather than not working. And the more she can trim the budget, the more freedom she has to make career choices that emphasise happiness over salary.


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## Handy

Posters are after BIL310 to get a regular type of job. From what BIL310 is indicating his current income is not as high as it was at one time BUT it is higher than if he was working for someone else.

I personally never made much money but I never went in to debt except for house payments. My opinion is it isn't how much a family earns, it is how they spend the money they do earn that counts.

I listen to a radio program about people deep in debt and how they got out of debt. Most used a budgeting tool called "Every Dollar" Get EveryDollar as part of Ramsey+ | Daveramsey.com

Perhaps other budgeting systems work as well. I am not endorsing "Every Dollar" as the only or magical cure but it would be a place where I would start if I owed a substantial amount of money that was causing relationship issues. This program will not work if only one person works it. Both have to mentally "buy in" to any system you choose to use.


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## BIL310

inmyprime said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> L 40k is above average? Do people earn less over there? In the US, that's average or even starter salary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $56k looks like average household income in US.
> £27k ($35k) is individual average income in UK.
> 
> Taxation and insurance are a bit different for UK and US so I think what’s left after all the taxes and insurance contributions will be about the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Our joint income is over $100k a year but we do have joint debt from moving house probably too early and credit card debt from overspending during previous years. We are aggressively paying this off though.


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## BIL310

Another disaster. After a couple of months without a break we finally got the kids minded last night and had a date night on our own. We went out for a meal and a few drinks then back to ours around 10.45pm.

When we finally got into bed during foreplay I (probably because I’d had a few drinks) decided to rip my wifes pjs off. Buttons everywhere. Big mistake. Turns out they were this big expensive Victoria’s Secret pjs. It resulted in her absolutely flipping and me responding telling what I think of her (we’d had alcohol) and me taking my pillow downstairs with my tail between my legs. 

There’s always something.


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## manwithnoname

She got her pjs on and then foreplay started? Sex was not on her mind at this point. She flipped because she didn't want sex at that point, and the ruining of the pjs was fuel to the fire.


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## BIL310

manwithnoname said:


> She got her pjs on and then foreplay started? Sex was not on her mind at this point. She flipped because she didn't want sex at that point, and the ruining of the pjs was fuel to the fire.


Thanks for your reply but you’re wrong. I was in the process of taking them off. Sex certainly was on the agenda. She flipped because I’d ripped the buttons off her expensive pjs!


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## oldshirt

BIL310 said:


> There’s always something.


This is the important point here ^^^^


If sex was really on the agenda, why was she wearing anything??

If the PJs hadn't ripped, what else would've happened to cause her to put the brakes on it?


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## manwithnoname

manwithnoname said:


> She got her pjs on and then foreplay started? Sex was not on her mind at this point. She flipped because she didn't want sex at that point, and the ruining of the pjs was fuel to the fire.





BIL310 said:


> Thanks for your reply but you’re wrong. I was in the process of taking them off. Sex certainly was on the agenda. She flipped because I’d ripped the buttons off her expensive pjs!




I'll try again:

If sex was on the agenda, it came off the agenda as soon as she put pjs on. So the reasons she got pissed is two fold.....you initiating for sex when it was no longer on the table, and ripping buttons off an expensive garment.


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## turnera

If a woman has sex in mind, she'll put on a night dress, or something sexy, not pjs. I wasn't there, but it sounds to me like you decided to be more 'manly' and your vision of that is ripping away a woman's clothes to have sex. Like something you read about or saw in a movie, and you thought it would make her hot for you. Typical Nice Guy stuff. You don't have enough self esteem to be comfortable being who you are, so you work on ways to be 'more' so she'll respond. Only she knows that isn't you and it just seemed, well, desperate, and it turned her off. 

And btw, those Victoria's Secrets pjs ARE expensive.


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## BIL310

I'll try again:

If sex was on the agenda, it came off the agenda as soon as she put pjs on. So the reasons she got pissed is two fold.....you initiating for sex when it was no longer on the table, and ripping buttons off an expensive garment.[/QUOTE]

Every single time we have sex my wife will get in bed as usual with her pjs on and then during foreplay the pjs get removed. She will not take them off and just get in bed.


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## BIL310

turnera said:


> If a woman has sex in mind, she'll put on a night dress, or something sexy, not pjs. I wasn't there, but it sounds to me like you decided to be more 'manly' and your vision of that is ripping away a woman's clothes to have sex. Like something you read about or saw in a movie, and you thought it would make her hot for you. Typical Nice Guy stuff. You don't have enough self esteem to be comfortable being who you are, so you work on ways to be 'more' so she'll respond. Only she knows that isn't you and it just seemed, well, desperate, and it turned her off.
> 
> And btw, those Victoria's Secrets pjs ARE expensive.


Think it was more the fact that I’d also had too much to drink and mistakenly thought the pjs had metal buttons that clip off rather than sewn ones! 

Either way it’s not the greatest end to a date night. It always seems to be one step forward two steps back.

Two weeks ago today we had sober sex (first time in years) and also had sex the previous night (with a coulple of drinks). She certainly seemed to enjoy sex sober more and I thought it may be the turning point. Nothing since then.

We’ve now had sex twice in the last 7 weeks.


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## Rubix Cubed

I'd suggest you scrounge up all of the buttons and sew them back on for her.


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## Personal

BIL310 said:


> We’ve now had sex twice in the last 7 weeks.


:surprise:

If I were in your situation, I would get sex elsewhere.

Fortunately I am not.

My 48 year old wife had major surgery just under four weeks ago. through the last week we have had sex on six occasions, while during the week before that it was four occasions.



BIL310 said:


> Think it was more the fact that I’d also had too much to drink and mistakenly thought the pjs had metal buttons that clip off rather than sewn ones!


It always helps to pay attention to subtleties and details, lest you make the same mistake. That kind of approach also helps when it comes to sex as well.

If I want to literally rip clothes off of my wife to have her, I tear her pantyhose open.

On the days I am so inclined and she is so dressed. I always ask early if she is wearing cheap ones, so I don't destroy the wrong ones later on.

Plus by asking about her pantyhose earlier in the day, it gets her thinking about how I am going to have her which helps to get her excited sexually.

That said if I did make a mistake and my wife carried on about it significantly, I would not hesitate to tell her to "get over it".

Mistakes can happen, endeavour not to repeat them and do move on.



BIL310 said:


> Either way it’s not the greatest end to a date night. It always seems to be one step forward two steps back.


If that's how it is, then perhaps you've been barking up the wrong tree with her. If I were you...



BIL310 said:


> Two weeks ago today we had sober sex (first time in years) and also had sex the previous night (with a coulple of drinks). She certainly seemed to enjoy sex sober more and I thought it may be the turning point. Nothing since then.


You get what you give and you get what you put up with. You both also seem to have a penchant for drinking, so why fight that aspect of it?

At the end of the day, you have accepted this sexual drought so that's on you.

Anytime you want off of that ride all you have to do is get off, which is also on you.


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## BIL310

If i mention sex (or anything related) to my Wife during the day she pulls a face like she's been sucking on a lemon.


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## 269370

BIL310 said:


> If i mention sex (or anything related) to my Wife during the day she pulls a face like she's been sucking on a lemon.



Then next time pull out that lemon out of your pants and stick it in her mouth, instead of destroying her property.

Though some women seem to need to be mentally ‘prepared’ for sex. They can’t do it spontaneously. Not sure why. Their drive works differently or something.


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## Blondilocks

BIL310 said:


> Think it was more the fact that I’d also had too much to drink and mistakenly* thought the pjs had metal buttons that clip off rather than sewn ones! *
> 
> Either way it’s not the greatest end to a date night. It always seems to be one step forward two steps back.
> 
> Two weeks ago today we had sober sex (first time in years) and also had sex the previous night (with a coulple of drinks). She certainly seemed to enjoy sex sober more and I thought it may be the turning point. Nothing since then.
> 
> We’ve now had sex twice in the last 7 weeks.


Just an FYI, the word your looking for is 'snaps' and most women's pjs don't have snaps. Those that do are not usually thought of as sexy. Unless you consider flannel and items from the Country Store sexy.

Go to Victoria's Secret and buy her a new pair.


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## turnera

Along with a negligee.


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