# When to confront wife about another woman?



## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

I have uncovered proof that my wife of 13 years is seeking a female friend for a friendship or possibly more (her words). I was invading her privacy, yes, reading her e-mail looking for financial indiscretions... but this really took me by surprise!

I have correspondence between her and a local divorcee including the gals name, number, address. I have her login/password and profile (with picture) from multiple bi-curious sites. Call records (home and cell) indicate they have spoken only briefly. Wife's Garmin has this gal's address in the history. I don't have access to her phone text messages (changed PIN). Her Facebook is clean. I have access to e-mail and computer since she left it on one day and her new passwords were within a few e-mails.

Conundrums:

1. Is this enough to confront now or do I delay & gather more?
2. I'm off to Las Vegas for annual conference for 8 days. 
3. Do I plant VAR(s) now and monitor e-mail from LV? 

The longer story:

13 years, three kids. One deployment, one child with special needs (Aspergers-PDD/nos). W's gone through physical/emotional trials with Fibromyalgia, implants then explants, two rounds through AA, carying a 10 lbs baby on a 100 lb frame. She's on medication for Thyroid, Pain, Depression, etc. 

2013 was not the best of years. She's been back with alcohol, but doing fine save a few times... embarrassing enough to get me mad which then gets her mad, so I keep dibs on her consumption which makes her pissed off.

Finances became an issue (more than normal). She had run up the credit card on 2012 Xmas, decorating before son's 1st Communion, dance gear for the daughter, shoes for her, etc. Then the AC went, my car got totaled, and the boy's tuition was due... so 401k loan. I convinced her to go with me to Dave Ramsey's FPU class, which she agreed to, but had to stop going due to a job conflict. I cut up the cards and got us on a budget... but found out running a Credit Report that she'd continued her profligate spending on her own cards. I used her computer to access her accounts and printed out the statements. Confrontation ensues. She's peeved that I've violated her privacy and changes passwords on her computer and phone. But I got that other card corralled. 

Her sister and brother-in-law come to visit from oversees, arrive on TG. The W had arranged for them to paint our kitchen cabinets... but that turned into a kitchen remodel with no budget. So I scraped together $3k and took some time off work to help thee BIL with the kitchen. Had to finish before xmas.

That's when all hell broke loose. A modest spat turned into a 1am doosie with her red-faced and angrily reviewing every grievance from 13 years. She asked me to go away for a few weeks during the renovation. I said no. Then suggested I move into the guest room once they left. I said no. I told her that we'd either work out our issues or D, sell the house and share custody. Apparently this was a surprise to her that she couldn't just keep the house and the kids with no income to speak of.

Three huge fights. Fight two and three are witnessed by SIL/BIL. She get's in my face and carries on with all grievances actual and perceived. I gave nothing back... not to be a doormat, but because my passive-aggressive non reactions got her even more heated, and I wanted them to see it.

During remodel I would also cook dinner on the grill, set a table for all, then clean the dishes in wet bar. W wouldn't even sit down to dinner with us. Granted she wasn't just mad at me, now her sister was a target because we were talking about W behind her back. duh.

W's meds changed and she's transitioned from being exhausted at 9pm to staying up past 3am doing chores. Spends hours on the computer during this time, supposedly selling excess stuff for cash.

Remodel complete, guests gone, we're almost back to normal. She asks me to take the kids to my parents. 1000 miles each way, few days peace, but not a word to my parents. I struggled with what to address with them and how to discuss without too much detail.... decided in the end to keep in inside.

Now it's 2014. Good for a month, even sex life improves. Though oddly one's at 4am.

February and I'm seeing too much activity with shopping both on-line and retail. She has some cash from part-time but not to sustain this. So I hit up the third free credit report... started back with the Kohl's card, and got new accounts at TJX and Citi. Around same time, she had left her computer on, so on the off chance I snooped again. Found what I was looking for with the cards but then found the personal folder... I just felt sick.

I've made W out to sound like a really bad person, which was not my intent. She's upstairs with a small faith group. Nice people, I wonder what they'd think. We've equal blame for a lot, but I'm really tired of chasing her down the money hole, and having to snoop and catch her lying on the topic.

I wonder if she's bi-sexual or just undiagnosed bi-polar. I need to talk with her because I don't have friends that I can talk to on this subject... so I am asking you, what would you do next?

R


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It depends on what your deal breaker is.

If this is entirely new behavior, the first thing I would do is talk to the doctors who are prescribing to her. Is she doing things she didn't do before the new meds?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

JR - sorry you are here. Many issues to cope with. Dave Ramsey has some good pointers.

1. Based upon the GPS it seems to me that she already did the deed with this woman. No point in putting in an address without going there.

2. VAR. One in car. Get one with a long battery life and long recording.

3. GPS on her car.

4. Key logger on her computer.

5. Bi-polar might be the case, but need more details.

6. Alcoholism, poor impulse control, over spending, all part of addictive personality. Trolling sites for hook ups. Yikes.

7. Then the secrecy with her accounts.

Questions:

A. What accounts of hers do you have access to at present?

B. What accounts of hers did you lose access to after the confrontation?

C. Can you get on her computer and put a key logger on it?


First, due to the addictions your wife is not a nice person. That is typically the nature of an addict, liars, cheats, sneaks, controlling, manipulative, etc. 

Second, bi -polar disease may explain her behavior as well.

Third, mental or behavioral disorders are not a pass to bad decisions. Everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. 

Fourth, do not enable her. Don't bail her our of her financial troubles. Let her know, her debt is her problem until she gets help.

Fifth, I may be wrong here so weight out my advice. Don't confront right now. Do the VAR, key logger, GPS, get more solid proof. I am afraid that if you confront right now she will blow it off, give you some lame excuse and you may buy it. My wife even with proof kept denying things. When I got the VAR recording of my wife having sex, I needed it to convince my youngest son and some others.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'd go one step further and hire a PI and then confront when you get back.

Then you can have a effective confrontation with solid proof. In the end it doesn't matter how you found out it's what WW is going to do to keep from losing her marriage. At the end of the day if she is screwing around does it really matter how you found out?

If you can't show her how confident you are in letting her go she will phuck you over and for starter deflect the real issue of screwing around to you protecting your self from more deceit!

It all boils boils down to protecting your self from additional emotional torture so who gives a damn how you found out that you have been betrayed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The only way to get your old lady to think twice about what she is giving up is to be confident to let her go.

If you want her to think twice about what she is about to lose then she needs to see a confident guy that is calm and with a smile on your face asking her to leave.
Chicks dig confident guys and right now you couldn't be more attractive then to have the self respect to show her you will not tolorate sharing your old lady with any body.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> Questions:
> 
> A. What accounts of hers do you have access to at present?
> 
> ...


A. Primary e-mail, computer, Facebook, Checking+cc, BiCupid (which originated the contact). Most other site registrations appear inactive.

B. e-mail, computer, phone, checking lost three months ago. just got them back three days ago.

C. Can and will try before leaving. Tuesday with luck.

I have purchased 2 VAR and will get one installed in the car tonight.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

But for now let's get the smoking gun she can not deny so she has to face her new reality.... Making her face what this really is...you have to get her to take her current fantasy to reality by showing her what's what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Give her the divorce papers. She is making your life hell.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

She clearly wants you out. That may be a pendulum swinging back and forth, though. You might want to read this NYT article on female sexual fluidity, just to arm yourself with a little more information.

I agree with everyone else, get the goods on her solid before the confront. Since you're going on the road, she will probably try t get together with somebody. Get a PI to tail her.

The intel gurus on here say to use Sony VARs.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Guru now? LOL uhkay. anyway having helped the betrayed run a crazy number of known intel operations and probably 2x more than that from people who just read my previous posts and never posted. My suggestions.

My one bit of advice is run hard on intel for the next 6ish days.

UNLESS

You find hard evidence she has not had relations with anyone and is about to truly take it physical for the first time. Then c0ckblock at all costs. EA will eat you alive. PA will make that seem pale. Actually hearing it/ seeing it will obliterate your psyche.

BTW listen to Mach above on attractions stuff. Hes sort of our resident maharaja on that!

Barring that above unusual circumstance:

The most important part to emphasize is SHUT UP AND PLAY dumb husband.

Standard post.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Guru now? LOL uhkay.


Speak of the devil...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

JR

Just to reiterate.

Do not say a word to your wife.

Do not confront your wife.

Get the evidence first.

Your wife sounds like she is off her rocker.

Especially living dual lives right now. All Holy Roller Church Wife with the Mothers Prayer Group upstairs while trolling for bisexual/lesbian romps while you are out of town.

And the overspending is a killer too.

Be smart. Investigate then move to protect your kids and assets.

HM


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I wouldnt confront until I was ready to issue ultimatums and FOLLOW THRU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

2 VAR installed (ICDPX333). Car and Bedroom. Under the seat proved difficult the velcro wouldn't stay, so I went with under the tray between the two front seats. Bedroom is behind the headboard. No concerns about spring cleaning here. Trying to get GPS done before I leave tomorrow.

I got 60 seconds access to the cell last night, very Mission Impossible. Confirmed text communication, but no smoking gun. OW is out of town for two weeks. Gained access to the Virgin Mobile account, but it did not show text message details or content, only phone calls. Some phone activity showed like she had called herself, anyone seen this or know what that might represent?

Thanks for the advice and support.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I think when you call yourself it is to check you own voice mail?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

convert said:


> I think when you call yourself it is to check you own voice mail?


Usually there's a separate vm access number programmed into the 1 speed dial key, although you can access vm by calling your own number. I can't speak for all carriers but ATT will put your own number on an incoming call if caller id was blocked or not available.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Ron Sorry you are going through all this crap. I think you will find your wife will start communicating with the OW the minute you are out the door.

The staying up to 3:00 in the morning is her talking with the OW or going to sites she may not want you to see. You can also add a keylogger to the computer while you are gone she may have other email account you are not aware of.

You may want someone with you when you review the information. It really may hurt you deeply. Do you have anyone besides the great folks of TAM you are confiding with?


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

mahike said:


> Do you have anyone besides the great folks of TAM you are confiding with?


No, not at the moment. Can't think of who would be the right person. I've got a long list of Psychiatrists and Clinicians from my Mental Healthcare provider. These were intended to be the starting point for MC, but I might seek out one for IC when I return from LV.

The group here has helped tremendously, not just with responses to me but reading the other threads as well. I'm pretty calm right now, have a good idea of the Situation, and I'm working a plan... at least for the next two weeks. Then we'll see where it goes from there. 

JR


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Strangely enough the total mess of the situation is more hopeful than a dedicated bisexual thoughtfully organizing a second love for herself.

You may be on the right track with the standard measures to a possible repair of your relation. But if even possible that will take time to let the situation develop until it is ripe to reverse. It will get worse first.

Just hang in there, keep faith in yourself. You do good for your part.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

left my effin laptop on he plane today. What next? Damn I hope Delta finds it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You'll lose your keys...LOL


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Whats next:

Philly13s Kurt is goin' out drinking with her after Disenchanteds OM has wheelchair sex with her.

#You asked


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

JR, I'd say you're long-suffering to a fault. What's your goal, here? get her back in the marriage or get her out?

Either way, you should be upping your sex rank. Do you get approached by women a lot?

How old are the two of you?


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> JR, I'd say you're long-suffering to a fault. What's your goal, here? get her back in the marriage or get her out?
> 
> Either way, you should be upping your sex rank. Do you get approached by women a lot?
> 
> How old are the two of you?


She's 44. I turn 42 in a few weeks. 

My default position is I want her to want to be in 100%. 
But if not I'm quickly cementing the positive mental image that I can and will have a happy successful life with or without her. 

My emotional first post is factual, but it's my point of view. She'd describe herself as lomg suffering, too. Which will make MC so important if we are to R and build from there.

One of her e-mails (or profile pages) says she loves sex with her DH. She thinks she'll find more romance and affection from a Female BFF
With benefits. I admit those are weaknesses for me, along with a dearth of empathy. 

I'm going to step in and take charge of this Marriage and set the conditions fo it to R. But I know that it takes two to tango. Within a Month I'd like to wrap the investigation phase and move on the confrontation.

Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. Typing on a blackberry while traveling in a car from LA to Las Vegas(I'm not driving). no wod yet on my computer.

JR
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Either way, you should be upping your sex rank. Do you get approached by women a lot?


I work from home and travel to client sites, and my industry is male dominant. At 5'6" 175 I don't turn a lot of heads, but I am niether fat nor unattractive. I am self assured and know how to engage an audience. I haven't flexed those proverbial muscles in a while.

Vegas should be fun this week. I may look and chat a bit more than I might otherwise, but will not wander.

Brought my running shoes. Got out for 2-3 miles this morning. It was pathetic excuse, stopping every two blocks. Palm Springs must be at elevation because I kept loosing my breath! Beautiful place at sun rise!

JR
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

JustRon said:


> I work from home and travel to client sites, and my industry is male dominant. At 5'6" 175 I don't turn a lot of heads, but I am niether fat nor unattractive. I am self assured and know how to engage an audience. I haven't flexed those proverbial muscles in a while.
> 
> Vegas should be fun this week. I may look and chat a bit more than I might otherwise, but will not wander.
> 
> ...


Jealous...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Mega Jealous.

One of the few places I have not visited yet.

Please take and post a few pics JR.

Hope your mind can find some rest for a few days.....


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> JR -
> Fourth, do not enable her. Don't bail her our of her financial troubles. Let her know, her debt is her problem until she gets help.


Unfortunately you are liable for part of her debts while you are married probably more if you are the main bread winner. If this goes to D you could be paying 60/70 % of the combined debt, not sure how you stop her from running up cards, with no real income she is getting her credit rating from your hard work. I would make sure she isn't using any of your financials (ss#, bank accounts) to obtain those credit lines.
Maybe a good time to start stashing some money somewhere and only putting what you need in your joint accounts so she has limited access.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

JustRon said:


> left my effin laptop on he plane today. What next? Damn I hope Delta finds it.


SkyWest just called... Laptop found. Should get here tomorrow.
Big sigh of relief.

Ron
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

JustRon said:


> SkyWest just called... Laptop found. Should get here tomorrow.
> Big sigh of relief.
> 
> Ron
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank goodness. As if you dont have enough to worry about.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Just intercepted a whatsapp message that dropped in her e-mail junk file. I cannot open or play the message in a PC browser or on my Android Tablet. Any thoughts on whether it's possible to crack this today?

Do I really have to wait until I get home and check the VAR?

Ron


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why would it go into the junk file? Is that for spam?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I get WhatsApp spam all the time. It usually says I have a voice message waiting for me.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> I get WhatsApp spam all the time. It usually says I have a voice message waiting for me.


thank you. That will get me through the night in peace!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

What email? (yahoo etc)


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> What email? (yahoo etc)



Hotmail.

I've accessed her gmail and yahoo but they're both inactive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

Sat in 41D leaving Las Vegas (cue cheryl Crow). Being away worked out well. I worked out with a trainer, played golf, managed to work when I was supposed to. 

W seems to have behaved, at least according to phone logs and e-mail. I don't know how long it will take to listen to 8 days of VAR recordings (x2). The next real key is to get her iphone backed up so that Teensafe can work its magic.

Just have to focus on working the plan when I get home.

Ron


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Justron,

Your patience is very important right now. *You don't want to confront too soon. *With a same sex AP, your wife can play the "we're just friends" card all day long. So you need that smoking gun.

Be methodical, be careful, and again; don't rush to confront.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Iirc there is an undelete for a period if you can get in.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

An update for the interested....

VAR (1) got four days of the eight.. Battery was very low. @14 hours total with nothing of real interest. My daughter chattering away, Mary Poppins, etc. All the phone conversations regarded her current medical issues (more later). VAR (2) nothing. I had moved the power switch to hold accidentally during install. Damn opposable thumbs.

iPhone. Unlocked since just before my departure. iCloud backup initiated successfully to facilitate teensafe and where's my iphone. Can pinpoint her location now anytime I'm online. Snapchat is installed on her phone, but not logged on.

Teensafe. Full backup last night. She's deleted any texts from OW on the phone. The one teensafe had from 24-Dec is now gone. She's running short on memory on the device so deleted chats are sketchy.

hotmail. The last e-mail from W to OW was Feb-12 with the closing line..."If you're too busy to meet, and decide you don't want to I understand." The text I saw in reply to this last week was "I'm in NJ for two weeks", etc.

So the early conclusions on this thread might be right... or premature. Have they met have they not? Are they communicating using secure methods or not? Perhaps while we wait and watch, I'll go back through and post a timeline of what I know and what I don't.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

JustRon said:


> An update for the interested....
> 
> VAR (1) got four days of the eight.. Battery was very low. @14 hours total with nothing of real interest. My daughter chattering away, Mary Poppins, etc. All the phone conversations regarded her current medical issues (more later). VAR (2) nothing. I had moved the power switch to hold accidentally during install. Damn opposable thumbs.
> 
> ...


Real quick. If she is tech savvy at all, its possible that she will be able to tell when you do this. GPS is off, and you turn it on remotely, the GPS symbol shows up in message bar. I dont use i Products, so i dont know to what extent that goes. It may take her phone out of sleep mode (ie, its sitting on her desk and the screen goes from black to on for no reason). I dont know, just something to keep in mind


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> Real quick. If she is tech savvy at all, its possible that she will be able to tell when you do this. GPS is off, and you turn it on remotely, *the GPS symbol shows up in message bar*. I dont use i Products, so i dont know to what extent that goes. It may take her phone out of sleep mode (ie, its sitting on her desk and the screen goes from black to on for no reason). I dont know, just something to keep in mind


This can be disabled.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Use lithium batteries. 4 day 25 hour house vars were the result.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

So far the security operation's not revealing anything of note. Here's what I think has transpired...

W started weening herself off Cymbalta back in November, and was completely off by early Dec. As she came down the meltdown started. First foray into online affair seeking Dec 20th. She pushed me to take the kids away for a week around New Years.

No contact with OW or anyone else related to dating site profiles since W's e-mail sent Feb 12 and subsequent, innocuous text exchange. W started back on a low dose mid February, and is now back up to 30mg 2x/day.

This thread started Feb 16th, two days after I discovered e-mails. Start observing W closely. I'm tracking some poor spending decisions on her cards. Find my iPhone has pin pointed her at Pier One, Macy's and TJMax but never over near OW address.

So either they came together briefly and stopped... or never really got together at all. *How long do I let this play out?* 

I've got one more business trip next week. MIL coming to visit last two weeks of March. Do I have to wait until April? Am I rug sweeping the longer I let this lie lie?

Am I boring all of you with my second rate, no smoking gun story?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Relax dude we like stories that are not complete crash and burns.

I VAR with LITHIUM batteries the business trip then go dormant for a while but keep eyes open and keep teensafe going indefinitely if its easy.

Oh how horrible. your life may not be imploding. Oh no NOT THAT!

LOL.

If nothing sexual I would only confront on the money side but keep eyes open in general.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

How I would confront:

"Hey, honey can we talk? I had a strange call from some lady named(OW name). She asked if I was Mr JustRon and if I was married to a (mrs Ron). I said yes. She then proceeds to tell me that she has some information regarding you(mrs Ron) that I should be aware of. I ask what it was and she replied she would prefer to tell me in person. So we arranged to meet tomorrow morning at (blah blah).
So, do you know(OW name) and is there something I should know before WE meet with her?"

I know it's way out there but you might get a confession without exposing your sources.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> How I would confront:
> 
> "*Hey, honey can we talk? I had a strange call from some lady named(OW name). She asked if I was Mr JustRon and if I was married to a (mrs Ron). I said yes. She then proceeds to tell me that she has some information regarding you(mrs Ron) that I should be aware of. I ask what it was and she replied she would prefer to tell me in person. So we arranged to meet tomorrow morning at (blah blah).
> So, do you know(OW name) and is there something I should know before WE meet with her?*"
> ...




*Fail*^ :scratchhead:


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

^^ well maybe but it might work

What would likely happen is she (his wife) would call ow shortly after this bluff to try and confirm.
Now if he had the VARS in place or spy software needed he would get some good intel.

and it would be before *I* meet her.

But doktorfun you are probably right it would drive her more underground


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Whatever you do to confront her be sure to put in place all the snooping tools before the actual confrontation: monitor the aftermath, you can get out of it more than diggin in the past due her trace erasing. IE she might reach out a confidant to "be sure" of her choices.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself.


Totally off topic..sorry.

I was just playing around with this and discovered something interesting.

My wife uses Google Now on her Android phone for everything.

She has poor eyesight so she uses voice commands for everything through Google Now.

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command.

There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

A couple interesting notes on the VAR today. She and a friend spent the morning running errands..

1) doesn't think she's in love with me any more (no surprise here, right?)

2) MIL is coming on Tuesday (from England).

Thank God I'll be out of town for a few days. Bet that first VAR recording coming home from the airport will be a doosie.

What amazed me the most was the way she communicated conversations and 'facts' to her friend. She couldn't have been more wrong on nearly every example/story she told her friend.

Claimed I went berserk when I found out about her cc usage. I remained calm and seated the entire conversation.

Claimed I threatened to sell the house and leave her with nothing. I simply explained that if we D the house would be sold, debts paid and we'd split the proceeds.

The spy game is starting to take a toll on my work. I should have been doing preparations for next week. Not sure how much longer I can delay confrontation.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> A couple interesting notes on the VAR today. She and a friend spent the morning running errands..
> 
> 1) doesn't think she's in love with me any more (no surprise here, right?)
> 
> ...


We know the PI stuff can be tough, but it's better to know the truth, whether you end up D'ing, or trying to R.

An the truth will set you free.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Almost certainly bipolar.

Moods, alcohol, paint the kitchen turns into renovate the damn thing, the spending is typical as are periods of tiredness but then periods of not needing sleep e.g. sex at 4:00am. Not a practical bone in their bodies as in how will she live on just child support payments if you divorce. Also they are VERY prone to having affairs. Google it - it's all there. And they are experimenters and risk takers, e.g. the whole bi thing. She sounds typical TBH but do bear in mind I am not a psychiatrist. However I do have family members and a few friends who are bipolar. 

They are impossible to live with unless medicated and the hardest thing of all is for bipolars to live with themselves with the mental turmoil that goes on in their heads. It's a tough gig. 

Suggest taking her to see a pyschiatrist - but one who specialises in bipolar. Many psychiatrists aren't even capable of diagnosing it. A doctor friend of mine who is bipolar himself says it takes 10 years on average to be diagnosed which he says is ridiculous. The reason is that most bipolars go to a shrink for depression and don't even get asked about their other behaviours. 

BTW, she is definitely pursuing something with OW - sounds as if you don't even need proof with what you have already. Even if nothing has happened the intention is there which is all it takes IMO to constitute betrayal. No spouse should be engaging like that with someone else.

Sorry you are having and have had such a tough time.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Off topic but Tac you just made it inside my standard document.

OP.

For that trip. LITHIUM batteries for the var!!!!!!!!!!


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> OP.
> 
> For that trip. LITHIUM batteries for the var!!!!!!!!!!


For the life of me I couldn't figure out the meaning of OP. The problem was I was pronouncing it as Opie... Used to be called this all the time as a kid!










Anyway, got it now. Thanks WL, will run this weekend on the alkaline and then switch to lithium.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

LOL YOU are 
Original
Poster

Lithium batteries + sony var = over 25 hours of actual recording.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> For the life of me I couldn't figure out the meaning of OP. The problem was I was pronouncing it as Opie... Used to be called this all the time as a kid!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You made me laugh. A good sense of humor will help you get through this.

It even works out for Barney Fife sometimes.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Use lithium batteries. 4 day 25 hour house vars were the result.


For these VAR's is the 25 hours recording, 25 hours of recorded conversation, but over multiple days, because perhaps for 20 hours out of the day the var wasn't picking up conversation because they weren't in the car?

Or is it 25 hours from when you installed the var till the batteries ran out?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

A couple times people have gone out for ~4 days and come back to 25 hours of VAR work ahead of them.

Meaning (made up example)
Monday 6.25 hours while there was activity near to record
Tuesday 6.25 hours while there was activity near to record
Wednesday 6.25 hours while there was activity near to record
Thursday 6.25 hours while there was activity near to record


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Update. MIL now in town. First day on the VAR? she thinks I'm "an A**hole". Nice, but not a shocker.

W has been much better behaved. Has not reached out to OW since 2/12. Back on track with the meds. She had a scare with esophagitis that turned out non-cancerous, but her change in diet since has meant no alcohol (bonus). Intimacy has been there, but lacking some due to Rx side effects. VAR shows that when discussing me with others it's a different story. Her emotions tend to override the truth.

I won't let the affair seeking sit much longer. I could expose to MIL while she's here, but she would surely rationalize away the issue. No, I'm going to hang in there through the visit and then pull the trigger.

The developing plan...

April Budget meeting

Review current Financial details (I have it all but will omit hers)
Ask her to fill in blanks concerning her cards (she'll lie or obfuscate)
Move discussion to one of Financial Infidelity
Tell her behavior signs point to marital infidelity (she'll scoff)
Ask if she's ever opened accounts for Match, Cupid, etc. (she'll lie)
Expose profiles, log-in details on site(s) (claim to have found them with Spokeo)
Ask "Who is OW?" (she'll say a friend)
Expose Text details (just wanted to meet)
Expose e-mail Message chain (desire for more)
Expose GPS (actually went to her house or Stalker)

I realize that I'll be working without a net, having just enough circumstantial evidence to make a case, but looking to pull a detective Goren and get her to implicate herself. Some might consider this a soft confront, but really I've got enough with the financials to legitimately and honestly threaten D. Then we'll see where her instincts take her.

Thanks for all the help so far.

JR


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I think your plan is fine.

Some Tammers have gotten more out of their wayward spouses with less than you have.

And your MIL is an A-hole but you already know that.

HM


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> Update. MIL now in town. First day on the VAR? she thinks I'm "an A**hole". Nice, but not a shocker.
> 
> W has been much better behaved. Has not reached out to OW since 2/12. Back on track with the meds. She had a scare with esophagitis that turned out non-cancerous, but her change in diet since has meant no alcohol (bonus). Intimacy has been there, but lacking some due to Rx side effects. VAR shows that when discussing me with others it's a different story. Her emotions tend to override the truth.
> 
> ...


Very analytical JR, I like it.

You probably already thought of this, but worth mentioning just in case.

You have a VAR(s) in place, so if she doesn't budge, won't give you any answers, you may want to think about having an ace in the hole, so to speak.

If I grilled her and she didn't crack, I would say something like. "Well, I know where she lives, so why don't I see what she has to say about it. Grab your keys and leave.

Drive in the direction that would lead to her house, then park somewhere inconspicuous, but where you can see the road(in case your wife tries to follow you for some reason).

I'm pretty sure your wife will probably call her minutes after you leave. Even if she doesn't, she may call someone who knows about the OW and discuss what's going on.

DON,T ANSWER YOUR CELL for the time it would take you to get to the OW's house. You don't wan't your wife arguing with you on the phone. You want her calling the OW.

She might tell the OW something like "Tell him this", or "Tell him we did/or didn't due that. If she has something to hide, she'll want to get her story straight before you get to OW's place. And who knows, maybe it didn't go PA. If so, it won't matter, because you'll tell your wife that you cooled down before you got there. Thought about it and came home...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Or he could really go to her house etc.

Does the mil think your an ass because of what your wife has told her and she believes it? How does she treat you? Could she just be humoring her daughter?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Never tell wife about var. you are going to lose intel sources as it is.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Put a var in your shirt pocket during confrontation!!! Very important! One 911 call and you'll be hauled off in cuffs, losing everything! People can do crazy stuff during these confronts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Sbrown said:


> Put a var in your shirt pocket during confrontation!!! Very important! One 911 call and you'll be hauled off in cuffs, losing everything! People can do crazy stuff during these confronts!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There was just a situation where a innocent husband was beaten to death by the police because the mother and daughter were fighting. I guess police got a word that there was a fight, and the man was standing there trying to comfort his wife, and they slammed him to the ground and started hitting his body and head with knees and batons until he stopped moving. So really you wouldn't want to deal with these guys unless you really had to.

HORROR: Five Cops Beat Innocent, Unarmed Father to Death Outside Cinemas | Alternet


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Just a quick note on two things I noticed....thyroid issues. She went from tired to being awake all the time....she also went from normal sexual behavior to some what more active. If her thyroid levels are off..she could be experiencing hypersexuality...this is kinda a nympho thing. Things she may never have done before she will try now. You might want to make sure her thyroid hormone isn't playing with her brain.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> Put a var in your shirt pocket during confrontation!!! Very important! One 911 call and you'll be hauled off in cuffs, losing everything! People can do crazy stuff during these confronts!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

mineforever said:


> Just a quick note on two things I noticed....thyroid issues. She went from tired to being awake all the time....she also went from normal sexual behavior to some what more active. If her thyroid levels are off..she could be experiencing hypersexuality...this is kinda a nympho thing. Things she may never have done before she will try now. You might want to make sure her thyroid hormone isn't playing with her brain.


The underlying marital issues were there and are valid, but the erratic, explosive, and boundary testing behaviors emerged with her decision to alter her (Cymbalta generic) medication levels in Novmber. The peak of the hyper energy was in December and hypersexuality (with me anyway) in January. The Dr (Rhumatologist I think) who's dealing with the Thyroid also has had her on a stimulant (T3?). Now she's asked W to take a 1 month break from that stimulant and it's resulted in extreme tiredness, afternoon naps and bed by 9pm.

I asked her some questions to try and get a handle on her Rx timeline. The VAR caught her questioning to a friend why I would be asking her these questions. I can get Rx history from CVS/Caremark in terms of what we purchased, but that's not the whole story regarding what levels she's actually taking after consultation with the Dr (or without consulting the Dr).

The existence of an underlying medical condition and proclivity for exposure or removal of Rx to uncontrollably drive behaviors may be enough for a Beta to Rug Sweep one month of bad/inappropriate behavior... but that's not the whole enchilada. I've seen and heard enough from the VAR to get a picture that what she really thinks and what she's telling me are two different stories. 

Earlier in the thread someone asked me "what's my deal breaker?" One word, *Honesty*. It's hardly ever heard, and mostly what I need from W. I want... no, I expect the truth. Day in, day out, painful or pleasant, I just want to live my life honestly. Caught myself singing this song Saturday working in the yard.

For the Billy Joel fans in the audience, the link's from the 1994 Face 2 Face tour with Elton John. I saw this show at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia. Billy Joel & Elton John Live 1994 'Honesty' - YouTube

JR


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Honesty.

That's the bottom line!!!


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## Yankee99 (Nov 4, 2013)

JustRon said:


> A couple interesting notes on the VAR today. She and a friend spent the morning running errands..
> 
> 1) doesn't think she's in love with me any more (no surprise here, right?)
> 
> ...


Wow, dejavu. In my case it was fully emotional plus sexual, but the excessive spending, lying, distorting the truth, etc... Its hard for me to read because of what I went through.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Yankee99 said:


> Wow, dejavu. In my case it was fully emotional plus sexual, but the excessive spending, lying, distorting the truth, etc... Its hard for me to read because of what I went through.


Wow Yankee, I think we're a match. all I had to do was read your post title. Last fall W accused me of being too controlling because of my attempts to reign in her spending.

Go Red Sox, just saying.

JR


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

JustRon said:


> Wow Yankee, I think we're a match. all I had to do was read your post title. Last fall W accused me of being too controlling because of my attempts to reign in her spending.
> 
> Go Red Sox, just saying.
> 
> JR


She was projecting and you meant White Sox.
Sorry baseball itch.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

love=pain said:


> Unfortunately you are liable for part of her debts while you are married probably more if you are the main bread winner. If this goes to D you could be paying 60/70 % of the combined debt, not sure how you stop her from running up cards, with no real income she is getting her credit rating from your hard work. I would make sure she isn't using any of your financials (ss#, bank accounts) to obtain those credit lines.


Love is Pain, so here's what I've concluded on the finances front. In the last six months I've paid off debt at the rate of $1,200/m while she's rung up $1,400/m. So I'm spinning my wheels. Even with a committed spouse and partner I'm looking at 3-4 years of work to get free... plus opportunity costs.

We bought smart at the housing bottom. Were we to D, pay off debts and then split proceeds we'd each be debt free with a mid five figure sum.... provided the lawyers don't eat us for lunch.

I've only run back of the envelope Future Value calculations, but I bet you staying married the next few years will cost me a cool million bucks by the time I retire. 

Boy that's cynical... but is she worth it?


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

This thread started out with the salacious, same sex affair stuff. The advice on how to proceed was spot on and appreciated... 

Today's VAR has MIL and W discussing options for her to leave me or kick me out (not bloody likely, mate). W's doing her best to hang on for medical benefits and D3. She's going to get some comeuppance. I tell you those things are GOLD. I'm thankful that I didn't get the full gut kick of live sex on the recordings as others have experienced, but what I did get was real clear insight to what W really thinks / wants. I now have a clear sense that what we've lost with each other mostly is respect. Her actions have been enough for me. The VAR has shown that the feeling is mutual.

Only got as far as talking with one MC, but decided I needed the confrontation over and done with first... MC would have been pointless until that was revealed. Maybe what I need now is someone to talk to myself... and a lawyer.

Trying to decide how I feel right now (give me a minute this is new for me). Disappointed more than sad or angry. Lonely, too.

JR


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> This thread started out with the salacious, same sex affair stuff. The advice on how to proceed was spot on and appreciated...
> 
> *Today's VAR has MIL and W discussing options for her to leave me or kick me out (not bloody likely, mate). W's doing her best to hang on for medical benefits and D3. She's going to get some comeuppance. I tell you those things are GOLD. *I'm thankful that I didn't get the full gut kick of live sex on the recordings as others have experienced, but what I did get was real clear insight to what W really thinks / wants. I now have a clear sense that what we've lost with each other mostly is respect. Her actions have been enough for me. The VAR has shown that the feeling is mutual.
> 
> ...


Any new BS's reading this thread, heed this advice.

VARs are worth their weight in gold. More then one is better, but HIDE them well. And never, EVER, tell him/her about you using them.

If you're dealing with a lying spouse/SO, the only truth you'll hear is when you are not around them.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

As "The var guy"

BEYOND what GP above said. The intel is insanely valuable.

NEVER say a word about it. They are the ace. When done... Put it in a safe place... One day a friend is gonna say, "My wife is acting funny... staying out late, wont put that damn phone down..." and you are going to go to that safe place, hand him your VARS, tell him about this crazy dude named Weightlifter at the CWI forum of TAM, point him to the site and get him his own truth.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

JustRon said:


> This thread started out with the salacious, same sex affair stuff. The advice on how to proceed was spot on and appreciated...
> 
> *Today's VAR has MIL and W discussing options for her to leave me or kick me out* (not bloody likely, mate). W's doing her best to hang on for medical benefits and D3. She's going to get some comeuppance. I tell you those things are GOLD. I'm thankful that I didn't get the full gut kick of live sex on the recordings as others have experienced, but what I did get was real clear insight to what W really thinks / wants. *I now have a clear sense that what we've lost with each other mostly is respect.* Her actions have been enough for me. The VAR has shown that the feeling is mutual.
> 
> ...


Dear JustRon,

I understand how you feel and am sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

What you've just said is that your wife doesn't respect you and is plotting her exit. Previously, you've told us that she has a drinking problem and is spending you into the poor house. Seems to me that there is only one solution to this: first, prepare for divorce, and only then confront her.

If you confront her before you speak to a lawyer and know how a divorce will play out in terms of child custody and financials (splitting of marital property and debt, child support and maintenance/alimony), you will be playing with less than complete information and therefore will not be able to be as decisive in your demands as you will be if you have the complete picture.

Once you know what a divorce is going to cost you and have figured out how to get through it, you can give her an ultimatum with confidence. Then, it's just a matter of learning whether she is still interested in preserving her family or if she is too far gone for you to salvage it.

Wishing you the best.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have read the two books linked to below? You desperately need to.

Explain how a wife that spends too much of your money is physically able to do that.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

VAR's are way better than PI most of the time


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Have read the two books linked to below? You desperately need to.


No, but I will. I did grab the electronic version of NMMNG and was not impressed. There were enough elements of the nice guy syndrome that I could identify with, but I thought he authors linkage of that to early childhood issues was overblown and for me didn't ring true. (though I'm sure it does for others)



Chaparral said:


> Explain how a wife that spends too much of your money is physically able to do that.


I took away and cut up our joint credit cards in August. I did let her have a joint debit for Gas, Groceries, and household necessities which I monitor daily/weekly. For a while she pushed the limits there but eventually migrated her spending to a credit card in *her name*. This I found running a credit report in November/December and removed it from her possession (it was nearly at max anyway - should have let her keep it). After Christmas/New Years she opened or re-activated several accounts in *her name* without my knowledge. I only found them via her e-mail account.

These debts are in her name, but we are legally married and so I am responsible. There may be some leeway to push these back on her or negotiate how much I'd be responsible for in a D... but if I'm getting out these are small potatoes (only last three months). If I'm staying these are gone and we're freezing her credit.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

JustRon said:


> After Christmas/New Years she opened or re-activated several accounts in *her name* without my knowledge. I only found them via her e-mail account.
> 
> These debts are in her name, but we are legally married and so I am responsible


That seems odd to me, what if one spouse gets a bank loan and transfers the money secretly over time to another secret account you don't know of??

Is that legal?

If so, then you can do the same? With the above as motivation for later legal procedures?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The financial conflicts suggest you are not on the same team. You should divorce her before she does it to you. You should only reconcile if she shows remorse. Sounds hopeless. Let her enjoy the company of MIL.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

This situation doesn't sound very hopeful to me. Especially with the revealing conversations you are catching on the VARs. You said honesty is very important to you. All I hear from the captured recordings is her plotting and scheming ways to undermine you, throw you out, take advantage of your money and your insurance, etc. Doesn't sound very honest to me.

What are you thinking right now? Any idea on your next move?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Why in the world have you not exposed her girlfriend to her husband?


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

bryanp said:


> Why in the world have you not exposed her girlfriend to her husband?


A) There's been no contact for the last month

B) OW was divorced before they made contact.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> What are you thinking right now? Any idea on your next move?


MIL leaves Wednesday. :smthumbup:

My first IC session set up for Wednesday morning. The therapist and I spoke on Friday afternoon. I needed this for me to have a chance to vent and seek wise counsel. Depending on how that goes I'm ready to confront as early as Thursday. 

Work will take me near my parents the week of March 31st. I intend to see them and explain the situation. In a sense this is to seek their advice as well (married 45 years), but mostly I think it will be to tell them what I intend to do.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> The financial conflicts suggest you are not on the same team.


:iagree:



LongWalk said:


> You should only reconcile if she shows remorse. Sounds hopeless.


Red: [narrating] I find I'm so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. _*I hope*_. 



LongWalk said:


> Let her enjoy the company of MIL.


MIL drives W crazy eventually. The cracks started showing last night.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Almost had to confront today. I was going to get together with W's twin brother (new acronym alert...WTB), but it got back to her. So she asks me if I'm going to serve her divorce papers. sigh... I could answer no honestly because I'm not there yet.

She's worried, but still shifting blame to others. I told her I was having an IC session tomorrow, she had heard "counselor" and assumed it was legal counsel. Emotional thinkers jump to conclusions too quickly!

We now have agreed to talk Thursday morning, my intended time for confrontation. I think this turned out for the best as she'll come to the table willingly and with a set of assumptions on the topic.

Enjoy the day,

JR


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

JustRon said:


> Almost had to confront today. I was going to get together with W's twin brother (new acronym alert...WTB), but it got back to her. So she asks me if I'm going to serve her divorce papers. sigh... I could answer no honestly because I'm not there yet.
> 
> She's worried, but still shifting blame to others. I told her I was having an IC session tomorrow, she had heard "counselor" and assumed it was legal counsel. Emotional thinkers jump to conclusions too quickly!
> 
> ...


DO yourself a favor and talk where the var can record the entire conversation.

Also, preface the conversation that you want to have with her as an honest, open dialog and you expect the same from her.

Good Luck

HM


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> DO yourself a favor and talk where the var can record the entire conversation.
> HM


Best laid plans. I left my work computer up with some research open. She came down for the printer and found the files I've been colecting.

We had the confront in the wrong car. That said it was reasonably effective after getting by her anger from having found my snooping files.

We had a good talk and she came clean on the affair seeking. Her explanation matched what I'd found. The only thing I didn't reveal was the VAR... But I will have to eventually to keep above board with my own honesty rules. 

She grabbed my work computer and tablet in anger. Hopefully she's smart enough not to destroy them. Maybe she found the forum in my own browsewr history. I hope so, again I'm all for full disclosure. W's due home in an hour. Will know more then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

JustRon said:


> Best laid plans. I left my work computer up with some research open. She came down for the printer and found the files I've been colecting.
> 
> We had the confront in the wrong car. That said it was reasonably effective after getting by her anger from having found my snooping files.
> 
> ...


Good Luck. Get all the truth.....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustRon said:


> She grabbed my work computer and tablet in anger. Hopefully she's smart enough not to destroy them. Maybe she found the forum in my own browsewr history. I hope so, again I'm all for full disclosure. W's due home in an hour. Will know more then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:scratchhead:She took your stuff? How big and mean is she?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> Best laid plans. I left my work computer up with some research open. She came down for the printer and found the files I've been colecting.
> 
> We had the confront in the wrong car. That said it was reasonably effective after getting by her anger from having found my snooping files.
> 
> ...


*WRONG!!!*

Don't EVER tell ANYONE(but us) about the VAR(s)!

If you do tell her you WILL regret it. She will tell everyone far and wide what a nut job you were because you were bugging the house. And that'll be why SHE left YOU.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

JustRon said:


> Best laid plans. I left my work computer up with some research open. She came down for the printer and found the files I've been colecting.
> 
> We had the confront in the wrong car. That said it was reasonably effective after getting by her anger from having found my snooping files.
> 
> ...


Your Determination is showing signs of Deteriation....

'How to blow yourself out of the water'... you will be writing this later on if you do not stop whining and take a strong position again!


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> :scratchhead:She took your stuff? How big and mean is she?


She took it while I was out pickup up DS10 from school. I let her have the moment.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *WRONG!!!*
> 
> Don't EVER tell ANYONE(but us) about the VAR(s)!
> 
> If you do tell her you WILL regret it. She will tell everyone far and wide what a nut job you were because you were bugging the house. And that'll be why SHE left YOU.


Back in the day, we used to call ground pounders "Crunchies"... cause that's the sound they made as we drove over them.

If she leaves that's it's own blessing. I would care less what she'll tells to whom. 

Either way I intend to live my life upholding a set of beliefs and principles. I won't be Neville Chamberlain looking for peace in our day but rather Reagan insisting that we Trust but Verify.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> Back in the day, we used to call ground pounders "Crunchies"... cause that's the sound they made as we drove over them.
> 
> If she leaves that's it's own blessing. I would care less what she'll tells to whom.
> 
> Either way I intend to live my life upholding a set of beliefs and principles. I won't be Neville Chamberlain looking for peace in our day but rather Reagan insisting that we Trust but Verify.


There's a lot to admire about his attitude. As long as you don't let her find out about the vars.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Next VAR (if any) will be very telling, nothing as being busted by your BH to start having long phone calls to enablers, supporters, covereres... 
Do you have your doks lined up just in case?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> *Back in the day, we used to call ground pounders "Crunchies"*... cause that's the sound they made as we drove over them.
> 
> If she leaves that's it's own blessing. I would care less what she'll tells to whom.
> 
> Either way I intend to live my life upholding a set of beliefs and principles. I won't be Neville Chamberlain looking for peace in our day but rather Reagan insisting that we Trust but Verify.


Here, in the North East of the US(and Canada) Ground pounder is a nick name for small block, modified race cars. They had 800 horse power engines. They mostly raced on small half mile oval tracks. This kept them bunched together, so when they passed in front of the stands, the ground and stands would shake.

I'm not sure what you're talking about...

Anyway, I'm serious, if you tell her about the VAR you're going to wish you hadn't. Nothing good(for you) will come of it.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Here, in the North East of the US(and Canada) Ground pounder is a nick name for small block, modified race cars. They had 800 horse power engines. They mostly raced on small half mile oval tracks. This kept them bunched together, so when they passed in front of the stands, the ground and stands would shake.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're talking about...\


In the Army Ground Pounders are dismounted or light infantrymen. To Tank drivers they are crunchies.

Grew up in CT/MA... never saw such a thing!



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Anyway, I'm serious, if you tell her about the VAR you're going to wish you hadn't. Nothing good(for you) will come of it.


Message received loud and clear. I will keep the powder dry on that front for the time being.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

JustRon said:


> Message received loud and clear. I will keep the powder dry on that front *forever*.


Fixed it for ya.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Here, in the North East of the US(and Canada) Ground pounder is a nick name for small block, modified race cars. They had 800 horse power engines. They mostly raced on small half mile oval tracks. This kept them bunched together, so when they passed in front of the stands, the ground and stands would shake.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're talking about...
> 
> Anyway, I'm serious, if you tell her about the VAR you're going to wish you hadn't. Nothing good(for you) will come of it.


Since Ron already explained what groundpounder means to him (and me and probably every other Army veteran reading this) let me just point out that small block, modified race cars go crunch when a tank drives over them too.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> In the Army Ground Pounders are dismounted or light infantrymen. To Tank drivers they are crunchies.
> 
> *Grew up in CT/MA... never saw such a thing!*
> 
> ...


Really. I don't see how.

Thompson and Stafford speedways are the two I've been to the most(100s of times) in the last 35 years. They're both in Connecticut. Thompson's right near the CT/MA/RI line.

Btw, I knew that foot solders were called ground pounders, but didn't know about the crunchy thing.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Thompson and Stafford speedways are the two I've been to the most(100s of times) in the last 35 years. They're both in Connecticut.


I'm more of a Lime Rock / Top Gear fan where cars are concerned!


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

somewhere around 36 hours after confrontation the worm turned. Anger turned to Fear turned to Admission turned to Acceptance, Remorse and renewed commitment. Shaken to the core and born anew. 

Collected VAR files from post confrontation, but have not yet had the free time to review.

"Snooping: Is it wrong?" article from Marriage Builders forum was instrumental in changing her mind/attitude towards the actions I've taken this last month.

I'll come back here and post updates as appropriate if anything else comes to light. Trust is still a big issue, so for now I'll keep this on CWI, but eventually our story may migrate to another sub category.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JustRon said:


> somewhere around 36 hours after confrontation the worm turned. Anger turned to Fear turned to Admission turned to Acceptance, Remorse and renewed commitment. Shaken to the core and born anew.
> 
> Collected VAR files from post confrontation, but have not yet had the free time to review.
> 
> ...


Not when the one that's being snooped on is cheating.

Look, you want answers. You need the truth. She's was not forth coming with what was going on.

I know you don't care for this covert way of getting to the bottom of what(or what not) your wife has been doing, but just asking her wasn't going to get all the answers. Especially if she's in the fog.


I always wanted to see the modifieds race at Lime Rock. I watched it on TV quite a few times, but never made it to the track. It looked like a nice facility.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *Not when the one that's being snooped on is cheating.*


This reminds me of the saying 

"It's only paranoia if they're really NOT out to get you."

It's so true. I don't know a lot of people who "snoop" for no reason. Yes, there are some, but the majority of people snoop because their partner gives off signals that something is up.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The article is here: Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D. - Marriage Builders®
It explains why snooping is appropriate.


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