# I dont even know why I did it.....



## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.

I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son. 

I was just wondering if any wayward out there just doesnt have an explanation why they had an affair. Is "I dont know why" a valid reason?

I've gone through my mind over and over and I cannot come up with one single reason why she would have an affair, and more specifically, with the loser she did it with.


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## IPoH (Jul 31, 2012)

There is always a "reason". Others here will call them justifications, though I believe that there is a cause and effect without having it be some ways to blameshift, minimize or excuse what was done. If she doesn't understand what caused her to make the choices she made then she should seek couseling for some deep (and probably painful) self reflection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

The reasons your wife had the affair because she wanted to do it. It is as simple as that. If she did want to have a sexual affair and put your health at risk for STD's and betray your marriage she would not have done it. She choose to do it because she wanted to do it. 

Her statement that she did not know why is bull.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm with you; I wouldn't buy that answer. Perhaps she's hiding something else and trying to avoid further consequences. Maybe that's her way of attempting to rug sweep.

MC or IC might be an option that you'd want to explore with her. That's too much of an important question to ignore.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Yeah each and every time I've asked its always "I dont even know myself why....i just did it".....

We've only been to 1 session of MC and that question is going to be tackled in the next session.

I cannot come up with the slightest reason of why she would do it with him....well, except that he was available, easy, and probably the best she thought she could do with her esteem.....


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

Lol hawx, you just ended your own thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

She did it because she is selfish, classless, has no integrity and, like others said, because she wanted to.

Also, she did it because she knew she could get away with it, as has been proven to be correct by the fact that you are still with her.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Best of luck to you.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I found out a while ago that a WW or WH can sit down across from you, look you straight in the eye and give you the most complete honest answer and it won't be good enough. That's not just talk, it's a fact.

I had to wait 40 years for that answer and it still wasn't good enough for me. I got the reason and it brought forth more questions, then more answers, like a dog chasing it's tail.

The hurt you feel cant be comforted by any single answer and what it does is leave a hole in your heart that will always be there. 

Yeah, your heart will heal but there is a scar and when you push on it, the pain comes back. 

They can tell you that they were selfish, inconsiderate, cold, horny or any other adjective you can think of and it will not repair the pain or remove the scar. I know. I waited 40 years for it and came away feeling the same way I did before I asked the question "Why." 

One thing I found out was, it wasn't worth the wait.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> She did it because she is selfish, classless, has no integrity and, like others said, because she wanted to.
> 
> Also, she did it because she knew she could get away with it, as has been proven to be correct by the fact that you are still with her.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this. Best of luck to you.



I guess you're right. The hardest part of R, for me, is the internal conflict I have. I myself feel that I am letting her get away with it. Its been about a week and a half since shes seen me trigger. Yesterday I triggered because its been a week and a half and I felt like she was getting away with it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It's usually an emotional choice, not a rational one, so "I don't know" actually makes sense. If people were actually reflecting and understanding themselves, they'd be far less likely to cheat as a "solution."

Bottom line, they want something and may not even know just what that is, but they're either not getting it at home or the lack is in themselves. Someone different, perhaps even your antithesis, at least is different - and different is novel and exciting, if nothing else.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A colleague at work had a fling/ONS and cheated on his wife.

I asked him why he did it and his answer was: "I don't know."

Sometimes that is the honest, yet deeply unhelpful answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Bottom line, they want something and may not even know just what that is, but they're either not getting it at home or the lack is in themselves. Someone different, perhaps even your antithesis, at least is different - and different is novel and exciting, if nothing else.



This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.

He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word. 

So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


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## RunFromYourWife (Feb 14, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.
> 
> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.
> 
> ...


Come on...are you really being honest with yourself, dude? You can't think of a single reason? Even the most perfect marriages a person can think of something I would imagine.

Women typically cheat for different reasons than men. Men may get caught up in the physical wooing, but women are more in the mental/emotional wooing. 

Does she have a real emotional/mental connection with you as she should?
Does she feel misunderstood or like she cannot talk to you?
Is she completely satisfied sexually?


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## RunFromYourWife (Feb 14, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


Are you sure your wife didn't just pick you as a sucker?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your R makes no sense either...

Maybe she cheated because she knew she isn't risking anything. She could always manipulate you back...

Hawx, how are you sure it was only once? Did she even take a polygraph?


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I was just wondering if any wayward out there just doesnt have an explanation why they had an affair. Is "I dont know why" a valid reason?


I don't believe for one second that she doesn't know why she had the affair. She knows, she just won't/doesn't want to tell you...It's part of the fog that all WS clearly are in. 

It's never really justified. I know if you push her on the answer, she'll point out faults in you, her needs you failed to meet. In the end, what should have happened is eye-awakening discussion about the suffering marriage so corrections can be made. But what your WS did was invest her love in a man who met the needs she was unwilling to ask you to meet any longer.

She got played by the OM. He got what he wanted, she got what she needed, even if it was from a loser. A major shot in the nutz the OP in so many ways. Do WS's EVER trade up? I think rarely.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.
> 
> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.
> 
> ...


Valid for what? Certainly not good enough to build R on, even though it might be the best she can come up with. I got a lot of that kind of thing myself (shoulder shrugs were big) until I finally forced the issue. Because here's the flip side:

"Why are you divorcing me?" "I don't know, I just am."


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


Think really hard. What does this mean?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Your R makes no sense either...
> 
> Maybe she cheated because she knew she isn't risking anything. She could always manipulate you back...
> 
> Hawx, how are you sure it was only once? Did she even take a polygraph?


What doesnt make sense. Also, no polygraph yet. She says once, I say it was multiple times and thats how I look at that.

Maybe in her mind she wasnt risking anything. All I know is that whatever her state of mind was for the past year, she was heading for a dive off the deep end. She was really getting some crazy ideas in her head before I found out about the affair. I can call it a MLC or whatever I want, but she really had an altered sense of reality.

Am I a sucker? Some may call me that. I myself struggle with that everyday. If i'm a sucker though, every single person who reconciles is too I guess.

Some of you respond to me like I'm at home being ***** whipped and doing everything for this woman. Its not like that at all. I'm constantly 1 step away from walking away. Just because I choose to reconcile with my wife does not make me a sucker. Trust me, if she ever shows any of those past behaviors or hides anything from me, it over. I can walk away knowing I did all I could to keep my family together. Thats all I can ask of myself.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I guess you're right. The hardest part of R, for me, is the internal conflict I have. I myself feel that I am letting her get away with it. Its been about a week and a half since shes seen me trigger. Yesterday I triggered because its been a week and a half and I felt like she was getting away with it.


Oh son - I know that internal conflict like the back of my hand. It was wrenching when I was trying to R - _physically_ wrenching in my body. I'd sit there and stare at the wall with my insides twisting away. How can I do this? How can I be with her? How can I let her get away with this and still be with me? It was the most painful, intense inner struggle I have ever experienced. I knew after 10 weeks that I could not, would not endure it.

I feel your pain brother, and I am so sorry you are in it. The only thing that released my twisted soul was to end it for good.

Whatever path you choose - I hope you choose it for you, and that you find peace and happiness.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If she truly doesn't know why, then what's to stop her again? Clearly, just knowing it was wrong didn't stop her before.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


Typical - the good guy gets ****ed over. I'm worried about the effect her infidelity has had on me - I don't trust and I'm hard pressed to open myself up ever again - to be that good, honest guy. Why? So I can get shat upon by lesser people?

My integrity remains intact, and I am still a good man. But I don't think I'll ever give of myself like that to another (except my kids) ever again. Sad.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

RunFromYourWife said:


> Come on...are you really being honest with yourself, dude? You can't think of a single reason? Even the most perfect marriages a person can think of something I would imagine.
> 
> Women typically cheat for different reasons than men. Men may get caught up in the physical wooing, but women are more in the mental/emotional wooing.
> 
> ...


Looking for blame in the BS, huh? Sometimes it just ain't there. Some people are just sh*tty people, all on their own.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> Oh son - I know that internal conflict like the back of my hand. It was wrenching when I was trying to R - _physically_ wrenching in my body. I'd sit there and stare at the wall with my insides twisting away. How can I do this? How can I be with her? How can I let her get away with this and still be with me? It was the most painful, intense inner struggle I have ever experienced. I knew after 10 weeks that I could not, would not endure it.
> 
> I feel your pain brother, and I am so sorry you are in it. The only thing that released my twisted soul was to end it for good.
> 
> Whatever path you choose - I hope you choose it for you, and that you find peace and happiness.


Thank you. I'm still trying to figure out why people are calling me a sucker. Isnt every betrayed spouse a sucker? Isnt every BS who R an even bigger sucker? 

My wife cheated on me with an idiot. She probably checked out of our marriage before doing it too. I have to live with that every damn day. I instinctively stayed because I wasnt ready to rip my 5 years old life apart. I wasnt ready to have my stepson emotionally ripped apart either. Some of you act like I went home and told my wife it was perfectly fine that she had an affair. Hell no....if this woman wants me back she is going to work her ass off to do it. If I ever see the slightest hesitation in her "love" towards me, I'm gone.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Also, no polygraph yet. She says once, I say it was multiple times and thats how I look at that.


Ok, have you tried methods other than depending on her for the truth ? 

You can recover texts from a smartphone ? Did you go down that route ?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Ok, have you tried methods other than depending on her for the truth ?
> 
> You can recover texts from a smartphone ? Did you go down that route ?


I smashed her phone out of anger on dday. Look, I'm not stupid enough to believe it was one time and I told her that. When I decided to R, it was under the conditions that I knew that it was an EA that turned into a PA on more than one occasion.

Regardless of what she says, I came to terms as if it was multiple times.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> Some of you respond to me like I'm at home being ***** whipped and doing everything for this woman. Its not like that at all. I'm constantly 1 step away from walking away. Just because I choose to reconcile with my wife does not make me a sucker. Trust me, if she ever shows any of those past behaviors or hides anything from me, it over. I can walk away knowing I did all I could to keep my family together. Thats all I can ask of myself.


No matter what posters tell you about whether you should or shouldn't R, based on the severity of the betrayal;that's always the BS's choice. I don't have a problem with whatever threshold the BS has in that regard. If they think that their life will be better with R, I'm in full support. 

But there are some exceptions to my thinking. Others may disagree, but outside of the "severity" of the betrayal, I would usually advise divorce as the best option if:

*The WS is a proven serial cheater.*

*The WS doesn't demonstrate remorse;* and there are a myriad of ways that can happen. Some obvious and some not so obvious. That's where TAM can really help the BS identify the problems. But sometimes you have to have a thick skin to accept them.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Thank you. I'm still trying to figure out why people are calling me a sucker. Isnt every betrayed spouse a sucker? Isnt every BS who R an even bigger sucker?
> 
> My wife cheated on me with an idiot. She probably checked out of our marriage before doing it too. I have to live with that every damn day. I instinctively stayed because I wasnt ready to rip my 5 years old life apart. I wasnt ready to have my stepson emotionally ripped apart either. Some of you act like I went home and told my wife it was perfectly fine that she had an affair. Hell no....if this woman wants me back she is going to work her ass off to do it. If I ever see the slightest hesitation in her "love" towards me, I'm gone.


You're not a sucker. And you sound exactly like I did when I was first attempting R - I mean almost verbatim. It's uncanny. You're a good man who is making huge sacrifices to try and save your family. That's Goddamned noble - not weak.

But please realize - if you can't do it - if you find out you don't WANT to do it, that's OK - that's just fine.

I knew I had to try and save my family - and I did my very, very best. But in the end, I realized if I was miserable, constantly in pain and angry, that was no life for my kids. Now that we are divorcing - of course it's hard on the kids. But, and this comes from family, friends, colleagues....my kids are happier and healthier than they have ever been - and that's because I am, too. The 3 of us are thriving.

So, if you learn that it just isn't in you to R, you'll at least know you did your very best to make it work, and that it isn't on you - this was her choice.

But you are not weak and you are not a sucker. You're a good man.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> You're not a sucker. And you sound exactly like I did when I was first attempting R - I mean almost verbatim. It's uncanny. You're a good man who is making huge sacrifices to try and save your family. That's Goddamned noble - not weak.
> 
> But please realize - if you can't do it - if you find out you don't WANT to do it, that's OK - that's just fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you again. I told my wife that I'm not promising her anything past the current day. I told her that she needs to prove to me that she loves me every damn day and even then, it may not be enough. I told her I think I can get past this, but I'm not entirely sure I can. 



badmemory said:


> But there are some exceptions to my thinking. Others may disagree, but outside of the "severity" of the betrayal, I would usually advise divorce as the best option if:
> 
> The WS is a proven serial cheater.
> 
> The WS doesn't demonstrate remorse; and there are a myriad of ways that can happen. Some obvious and some not so obvious. That's where TAM can really help the BS identify the problems. But sometimes you have to have a thick skin to accept them.


She is not a proven serial cheater. She has been extremely remorseful. I'm actually been quite surprised at the level of remorse she has shown. Even looking at it with my highly skeptical eyes, I firmly believe her remorse is honest.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP she did it because she wanted to. Your wife wanted to have sex with another man. 

Perhaps loser om was the easiest willing participant she could find. Maybe there was an emotional bond between the two. If no emotional bond then your wife likes to get a little extra on the side and I would be surprised if this is the first time for her or the first time she got caught. There is a difference. 

Bottom line. If she did not want to cheat. You would not have this problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugby (Dec 21, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.
> 
> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.
> 
> ...


I find it interesting, yet not surprising, how many simple answers have been given. In my opinion, the reasons for why people do most things is complex and can't be explained by simply saying that the person is selfish, stupid, etc. The decision to cheat and imperil one's relationship is anything but simple. I think a person may ultimately make the decision to cheat at that moment based on one parameter, such as lust, hurt, jealousy, insecurity, or any other emotion, but the underlying reasons, whether consciously or subconsciously, are more complex and interrelated.

I am a non-practicing Mormon and come from a religious community. I have known several friends and family members who have cheated. Nearly to a person, they stated that in the end they did it because they felt trapped. Each stated that the decision to chear was easier than making the decison to deal with all the other related, underlying problems. For most, doing what you all suggest, which is to divorce rather than cheat, means also making the decision to potentially leave their faith and greatly strain friendships and familial relationships. As such, sometimes people just crack under the pressure and cheat because they are unable to make all the other tough decisions or endure another minute of their current situation. 

I recognize that my personal experience with cheating in my own family is unique given the religious element; however, I believe that most cases of infidelity involve equally complex variables irrespective of a person's background. The answer to the why question simply isn't that cut and dried in most cases, in my opinion. That said, I am not condoning cheating. It nearly ruined my parents' marriage and negatively impacted my life for many years as a child. Now as an adult, I am just better able to understand the root cause of these things. Of course the other element is the biological/biochemical element for why people cheat, especially women, but that is an entirely different topic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Hawx, your wife traded up when she married you. Her ex is indeed a loser, but she is too. Maybe you just were too lovestruck to see it. 

My x wife used to use coacaine wit hher first husband back in the 90s. She was enmeshed in that drug lifestyle. All her friends, everyone she knew were into it. When she cleaned up the first time she left all those friends behind. It had to have been a huge loss for her, giving up all those people and an ex who spoke her language. 

When I met her she seemed pretty stable. She acted like she had cleaned her life up. So I fell in love with her and married her and for four years we were happy. 

Then earlier this year she hooked up with a drug user and meth dealer. The only reason I can think that she did this was because he spoke her language. She identified with him, and probably felt he understood her better than I, since i have never used hard drugs and was never part of that drug society. 

I think she was tired of playing the good-girl act with me... tired of being the normal white-picket-fence wifey, when what she really wanted to be was a drug user/party girl. That was the life she was comfortable with, so she got lured back into it when she met a guy who was from that world. 

Your wife went back to her ex because he is her comfort zone. She knows she does not have what it takes to be the stable, upstanding, devoted wife you want her to be, so why try? Her scumbag ex never held those expectations of her. With him there is no pressure.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Polygraph test.

Find out if she's had other affairs.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Hawx there was an old song from the folk group The Brothers Four back in the 60's. One of the verses went. "After you've been havin' steak for a long time, beans, beans taste fine; and after you've been drinkin' champagne and brandy, you're gonna settle for wine..." Consider yourself the "steak" and the fine "champagne" and the loser was the "beans." Some people, women included (your wife perhaps), feel they have to try slumming because their lives are too perfect. They feel, for whatever reason, the need to have an affair with someone scrummy. "Oh the world is funny and people are strange and man (or in your case, women) is a creature of constant change, so after they've been havin' steak for a long time, beans, beans taste fine." It's one of those crazy things we guys will never understand. It just *is*. :scratchhead:


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

My wife has low self esteem. She loves being the center of attention. Her self worth comes from external feedback. 

Like I said, her whole mindset/attitude changed completely. Even before the affair I had friends asking me if she was having an MLC due to her complete change in lifestyle. I always supported her, loved her, complimented her, never neglected her or made her feel ugly. However, I guess its much more powerful to some when someone other than your spouse compliments you.

"Damn you look good" coming from me was something I was supposed to say, as her husband. "Damn you look good" coming from the OM fed her need for external validation. I'm sure she felt excitement, danger, and loved the attention and thats why she cheated.

This had nothing to do with me. She was broken.


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## WayUpNorth (Dec 14, 2013)

Well at least she did it with a loser. You would likely feel very bad about yourself if she had chosen some handsome, dashing and daring fellow that had all his shoot together.
My ex chose a goat shouldered, fat, 12 years older than her, living with his parents, lazy loser. After the D she married him. Now she complains about how broke they are, how lazy he is, etc. And I laugh and laugh, and laugh.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> Hawx, your wife traded up when she married you. Her ex is indeed a loser, but she is too. Maybe you just were too lovestruck to see it.
> 
> Your wife went back to her ex because he is her comfort zone. She knows she does not have what it takes to be the stable, upstanding, devoted wife you want her to be, so why try? Her scumbag ex never held those expectations of her. With him there is no pressure.


You know, when we first were dating I found 2 pictures of her exes. One was a decent looking guy, who turns out was actually engaged to her. He called it off because he told her he could do better. The other, which was the one just before I came into the picture, was another complete loser. I was surprised she would date someone like that at the time.

So yeah, she has a history of dating losers. I wouldnt call her a loser. She is successful and has actually done a lot in her life. I think in her mind though, she thinks she is a loser and these idiots are indeed what she is comfortable with.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

WayUpNorth said:


> Well at least she did it with a loser. You would likely feel very bad about yourself if she had chosen some handsome, dashing and daring fellow that had all his shoot together.
> My ex chose a goat shouldered, fat, 12 years older than her, living with his parents, lazy loser. After the D she married him. Now she complains about how broke they are, how lazy he is, etc. And I laugh and laugh, and laugh.


Ha! I always wondered which was worse....have your wife cheat on you with a total downgrade or a complete upgrade.

Right not i'm like "you cheated on me with that POS? At least screw a real man!". However, had she totally upgraded, yeah that would have been a blow. Its not in my DNA to cheat, but it I ever did, you best believe it would be with the most gorgeous woman ever created. It wouldnt be with a damn scrub.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> Hawx, your wife traded up when she married you. Her ex is indeed a loser, but she is too. Maybe you just were too lovestruck to see it.


QFT. My stbxww did the same - traded up for me. I didn't see it. She eventually returned to her ilk. She said to me of her posom "It felt like we were peers". Yes - they were. They ARE.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> If she truly doesn't know why, then what's to stop her again? Clearly, just knowing it was wrong didn't stop her before.


I think this is probably one of the most important questions to ask her at your MC.

Because as WOM says if she doesn't know 'why' how would she know 'why not' the next time around?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Your struggling because you know deep in your gut she is still lying and minimizing!!! Schedule the poly and get the truth!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> My wife has low self esteem. She loves being the center of attention. Her self worth comes from external feedback.
> 
> Like I said, her whole mindset/attitude changed completely. Even before the affair I had friends asking me if she was having an MLC due to her complete change in lifestyle. I always supported her, loved her, complimented her, never neglected her or made her feel ugly. *However, I guess its much more powerful to some when someone other than your spouse compliments you.
> 
> ...


So sadly true. For many years my W's version of the bolded passage, in response to my compliments about her appearance, was "You don't count."


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> She is not a proven serial cheater. She has been extremely remorseful. I'm actually been quite surprised at the level of remorse she has shown. Even looking at it with my highly skeptical eyes, I firmly believe her remorse is honest.


I wasn't implying she was a serial cheater. I'm glad she's not. But one might argue that her being less than forthcoming about her reason for cheating; shows a lack of remorse. I'm not suggesting this can't be overcome.

Like I stated, sometimes indications of remorse (or lack of) are not so obvious.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Philat said:


> So sadly true. For many years my W's version of the bolded passage, in response to my compliments about her appearance, was "You don't count."


Yeah I guess its kind of like when you're a kid and your parents tell you how handsome or beautiful you look. It never resounds with you because you always think "you're my parents you're supposed to say that".

I always tried to make her feel sexy and beautiful because I knew, in her mind, she didnt feel that way. I can certainly understand the power of that. I guess she just needed to feed her desire for attention.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Ha! I always wondered which was worse....have your wife cheat on you with a total downgrade or a complete upgrade.
> 
> Right not i'm like "you cheated on me with that POS? At least screw a real man!". However, had she totally upgraded, yeah that would have been a blow. Its not in my DNA to cheat, but it I ever did, you best believe it would be with the most gorgeous woman ever created. It wouldnt be with a damn scrub.


Yeah that's a head scratcher - does it hurt more if she upgrades or downgrades? But really, I don't think it's possible for a woman to "upgrade" with their AP - for the simple fact that a POSOM is just that. You are, by definition, a pos if you screw another man's wife. So by default, an AP is a downgrade, no matter what kind of car they drive.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Yeah I guess its kind of like when you're a kid and your parents tell you how handsome or beautiful you look. It never resounds with you because you always think "you're my parents you're supposed to say that".
> 
> I always tried to make her feel sexy and beautiful because I knew, in her mind, she didnt feel that way. I can certainly understand the power of that. I guess she just needed to feed her desire for attention.


OMG we married the same woman.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Healer said:


> You're not a sucker. And you sound exactly like I did when I was first attempting R - I mean almost verbatim. It's uncanny. You're a good man who is making huge sacrifices to try and save your family. That's Goddamned noble - not weak.
> 
> But please realize - if you can't do it - if you find out you don't WANT to do it, that's OK - that's just fine.
> 
> I knew I had to try and save my family - and I did my very, very best. But in the end, I realized if I was miserable, constantly in pain and angry, that was no life for my kids.


:iagree:

I could not agree more, reconcilation has to be done because the BS feels that the happines, good times and joy that the WS will bring in to his/her life will overcome the pain they caused, but if the WS is unremorseful or the BS simply realize that he/she will never overcome the betrayal, the the more healthy for all the family is separation


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> OMG we married the same woman.


LOL I guess all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that. I remember asking her after dday how she could think I didnt find her sexy.

If I want to jump her bones everytime she undresses in front of me, I would tend to think that would make you feel like your spouse is very attracted to you. I guess not for our wives.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> My wife cheated on me with an idiot.





> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


And you are reconciling with a selfish cheater. Why would anyone do that ? What would you advise a friend who is married to such a woman. Her infidelity was icing on top of the cake. I can even say that she is the female version of the OM that you hate so much. You cannot see it because she is your wife. So why are you R'ing ? Just because he is a loser in your eyes does not mean she sees him as such. They had a history before you and maybe it was easy to go back to that. And they did not have any shared responsibilities and the stresses that come with that..(And like she has with you). Maybe it was a way to feel young

hawx, the only thing I am worried about your wife's affair is that you don't know the depth of it. You come across as one of those guys that wear their hearts on their sleeves. You probably blew up the moment you found out about the affair. She has no reason to confess anymore. It is time you find out what exactly you are reconciling with. There are a few posters here that wasted years of their lives in false R. 

What exactly are you doing to keep tabs on her ?(Atleast for the time being) hat exactly did she do to show remorse ? Did she confess to anything other than what you found out and cannot deny ? It is always "It was just once" .Expecting a WS t say this is a given.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

manticore said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I could not agree more, reconcilation has to be done because the BS feels that the happines, good times and joy that the WS will bring in to his/her life will overcome the pain they caused, but if the WS is unremorseful or the BS simply realize that he/she will never overcome the betrayal, the the more healthy for all the family is separation


Exactly. I thought long and hard about this. Could I find happiness with another woman? Sure I could. Its no guarantee that she would never cheat on me and its not guarantee I could trust her anymore than my wife.

I look at this as a father first, then as a man, hence the conflict. The father side wants to work it out with the mother of my children. Doesnt want to rip the family apart. I know I can be happy with her again, if she provides me with the wife i want/need/deserve. The man in me has a bruised ego/pride and wants to lash out at her. No one does this to me/why am I not crushing her in divorce?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> LOL I guess all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that. I remember asking her after dday how she could think I didnt find her sexy.
> 
> If I want to jump her bones everytime she undresses in front of me, I would tend to think that would make you feel like your spouse is very attracted to you. I guess not for our wives.


Women with low self esteem and daddy issues - you get with one of those, and you're f*cking doomed. I will never again be with a woman with either issue. They are prime candidates for infidelity, and no matter how much you love them, pump them up, try to make them feel sexy, beautiful, loved, adored - it won't matter. They will look for that affirmation elsewhere (and still won't find it, in the long run).


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> Women with low self esteem and daddy issues - you get with one of those, and you're f*cking doomed. I will never again be with a woman with either issue. They are prime candidates for infidelity, and no matter how much you love them, pump them up, try to make them feel sexy, beautiful, loved, adored - it won't matter. They will look for that affirmation elsewhere (and still won't find it, in the long run).


Man we did marry the same woman. She has mommy and daddy issues because both were constantly working when she was a kid and spent many summers away with relatives.....my wife has issues and I dont think she knows what a family is supposed to be like.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I think this sort of thing is more common than we realise.

My wife said to me some time ago that she knew she 'had' me but did sometimes wonder if other men found her attractive.

Big difference is between those who wonder and those who act.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> I think this sort of thing is more common than we realise.
> 
> My wife said to me some time ago that she knew she 'had' me but did sometimes wonder if other men found her attractive.
> 
> Big difference is between those who wonder and those who act.


Yeah my wife would get a big kick when she caught someone checking her out. She would even come home bragging about it to me. I would just tell her "ok, great". I mean, WTF am I supposed to say?

I understand the need to be desired by the opposite sex. I admit I love getting those glances by women when I'm out. Of course it feels good to know "you still got it". However, never did I feel a need to take that feeling to another level. If a hot woman is checking me out, of course that makes me feel real good. Never felt the need to sleep with her though.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> Yeah each and every time I've asked its always "I dont even know myself why....i just did it".....
> 
> We've only been to 1 session of MC and that question is going to be tackled in the next session.
> 
> I cannot come up with the slightest reason of why she would do it with him....well, except that he was available, easy, and probably the best she thought she could do with her esteem.....


Perhaps in your next MC session you should say that without knowing why she did it you can never forgive or trust her again.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> My wife cheated on me with an idiot.





hawx20 said:


> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.



There something in the "loser" that she finds attractive. She has proven or shown it to you several times now. She was with him and she went back to him while married to you.

You probably dont want to see that attraction she has for him.

I agree with warlock. She does not see him the same way as you do. That's painfully obvious (or it should be).

If I were to guess, I would think that the "loser" provides an excitement or satisfaction that you, most likely, can never induce in her.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.


Saying they don't know why they did it is a lie. They know why they did it. Pure and simple? They wanted to.

It aint pretty, but I'm just going to say it. Your W, my xW, etc, simply wanted to have sex with someone other than their husbands. (same goes for cheating H's)



> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.


I've said that before that when you cheat on your spouse, you cheat on your children. Although WW's that have written here will deny that they betrayed their kids.




> I was just wondering if any wayward out there just doesnt have an explanation why they had an affair. Is "I dont know why" a valid reason?


If they say it is a valid reason, they are either lying or in denial.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

From your posts I gather that if she knew if she ever had an affair that you would have immediately dumped her, then she would not have had the affair. It seems that you are one of the nice guys and that she knew down deep that she could have a fling and if found out you would never leave her anyway because of your child. Therefore she would have had absolutely nothing to lose because apparently she was indeed correct.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

WayUpNorth said:


> My ex chose a goat shouldered, fat, 12 years older than her, living with his parents, lazy loser. After the D she married him. Now she complains about how broke they are, how lazy he is, etc. And I laugh and laugh, and laugh.


I f'in love it!!!!!:smthumbup:


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

aug said:


> There something in the "loser" that she finds attractive. She has proven or shown it to you several times now. She was with him and she went back to him while married to you.
> 
> You probably dont want to see that attraction she has for him.
> 
> ...



I mean it in a slightly different way. OP loves his wife even though he found out she cheated on him. He loves her inspite of her faults. 

Same thing with his wife. She is attracted and probably loves her ex even though "fate" made them separate and get together with other people. Se probably separated from him due to some reasons which are no longer relevant today when she started cheating on OP. it is not if O was travelling a lot or he kept neglecting her emotionally. She sought out this relationship with intent. 

hawx, do you know why they separated in the first place ?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> I mean it in a slightly different way. OP loves his wife even though he found out she cheated on him. He loves her inspite of her faults.
> 
> Same thing with his wife. She is attracted and probably loves her ex even though "fate" made them separate and get together with other people. Se probably separated from him due to some reasons which are no longer relevant today when she started cheating on OP. it is not if O was travelling a lot or he kept neglecting her emotionally. She sought out this relationship with intent.
> 
> hawx, do you know why they separated in the first place ?


He abandoned her when she told him she was pregnant 16 years ago. I've known her for 8 years and they never were together again after he left. I don't think she loves him. I think she had a need for external validation and he was the easiest person to get it from.

She wasn't neglected in any sense of the word. It's hard to explain, but this woman was crying for attention from someone other than me. Her whole attitude and priorities changed when she hit this MLC. I think she wanted to see if she still had it. In her warped mind, she was doing anything to make sure she was still and attractive and sexually desired woman. My desire for her didn't count, she needed it from someone else.

I'm fairly confident there is no love between them. She did not hesitate, and even encouraged me to destroy him. I think he was an easy choice because he was willing, they had history, and she didn't have to work hard to get it.

I'm not saying I've forgiven her, far from it. I don't even know if we can reconcile. All I know is she has been extremely remorseful and has done everything right up to this point. Time will tell if I have the woman I married back or if she really was the person she turned in to.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You are a sucker because you are accepting her bs reasons, or lack of them. You also know you dont have the full truth. What are you doing about any of this?

You should have cleaned this up from the get go, before you agreed to reconcile.

She now knows what she sensed before she cheated.

You are not going anywhere. Maybe its the kids. Maybe not.

And now you have added taking her back to all the other selfless things you have done for this marriage. Which will make it harder to leave if she does it again. 

The stakes are higher.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> It's hard to explain, but this woman was crying for attention from someone other than me.





> I'm fairly confident there is no love between them.


What about you? What makes you think that she loves you ?

Can't help but think that you have a blind spot when it comes to your wife. 

You wouldn't even consider a temporary separation. You are not bothered to find out out the complete truth(atleast from what you post here). From the way she was behaving, it could have been more than one guy too .You might be one of the lucky ones but i think this denial is going to hurt you seriously int the long term. 

You say that you are not sure if you can reconcile but I think you are pretty hell bent on R.(not that there is anything wrong with the choice to R but the way you are going about it)


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

...is weak.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Most people affair down.

My wife's AP was a greasy slimeball ageing Lothario, my revenge EA/AP was well, let's say she was nowhere near as attractive as my wife and not a nice person.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> *He abandoned her when she told him she was pregnant 16 years ago*. I've known her for 8 years and they never were together again after he left. I don't think she loves him. I think she had a need for external validation and he was the easiest person to get it from.
> 
> She wasn't neglected in any sense of the word. It's hard to explain, but this woman was crying for attention from someone other than me. *Her whole attitude and priorities changed when she hit this MLC. I think she wanted to see if she still had it. In her warped mind, she was doing anything to make sure she was still and attractive and sexually desired woman*. My desire for her didn't count, she needed it from someone else.
> 
> ...


You are not foolish for reconciling.

It's not an uncommon subject on this forum from cheaters, that they are "looking for the why."

Trading sex for attention, trading sex for validation, doesn't make sense to a lot of men, but it is the reason given by many women. Mid-life crisis.

From her point of view, she may have wanted to reel this guy back in who dumped her, prove to herself that she could make him want her, and then dump him.

Daddy issues, family issues - those are hard to fix. In my opinion, daddy and family issues are "serial cheater" territory.

You are not a fool for reconciling. As long as your wife is doing the right things, keep at it. Keep forging ahead asking her to tell you why. There is a reason, and she has some idea of what it is.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> You are not foolish for reconciling.
> 
> It's not an uncommon subject on this forum from cheaters, that they are "looking for the why."
> 
> ...


The reason is going to be an ugly one. Its going to be hurtful to you and to her. That is why she doesn't want to tell you the reason. Because in order to give you a reason she has to look inward and find it. And she knows what she finds will be painful.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> He abandoned her when she told him she was pregnant 16 years ago. I've known her for 8 years and they never were together again after he left. I don't think she loves him. I think she had a need for external validation and he was the easiest person to get it from.
> 
> She wasn't neglected in any sense of the word. *It's hard to explain, but this woman was crying for attention from someone other than me. Her whole attitude and priorities changed when she hit this MLC. I think she wanted to see if she still had it. In her warped mind, she was doing anything to make sure she was still and attractive and sexually desired woman. My desire for her didn't count, she needed it from someone else.*
> 
> ...


So anytime she is feeling bad about herself or starts to crave attention she is going to look for another man? If she says no then ask her what makes the next time any different from this time? What has really changed?


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

There is a disconnect between a man who stays with a woman who had an affair but insists he will leave her at the next slightest infraction. 

The learning that just took place is that he won't leave over an affair. The reasoning is the children, but what sense does it make to leave after some trifling incident now? That tells me the children are a rationalization, but not the reason. 

I am really bothered by this line of thinking that children should discount the praise of their parents or wives should dismiss the loving statements of their husbands. The children or wives that do so are contemptible. Power-tripping on the people who love them most by invalidating their acts of love.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I attempted to ask that question, in the end it's get you no closer to the truth. I think I go the " I just felt like it" answer. It's an absolute choice in the end. Like picking fruit, buying name brand as opposed to generic. You have to ask yourself, why would you do it you would probably get the answer your looking for. It might not be complete, but as close as you are going to get. For me in the end and 15 years later, who cares, go away and be with the loser, I've got better things to do.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

She did because she is selfish, and because she wanted to do it. I will never understand the reasons why people cheat, other than like i say they're selfish, and they're thinking of nobody but themselves when they do it

Nobody has to cheat, they have a choice.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

6301 said:


> I found out a while ago that a WW or WH can sit down across from you, look you straight in the eye and give you the most complete honest answer and it won't be good enough. That's not just talk, it's a fact.
> 
> I had to wait 40 years for that answer and it still wasn't good enough for me. I got the reason and it brought forth more questions, then more answers, like a dog chasing it's tail.
> 
> ...


Can you enlighten on how the talk went down?


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't usually quote Hillary Clinton, but "What does it matter?" Pick a reason you've been given or all of them for that matter. They don't guarantee she won't cheat again.

What matters is how you judge her remorse, if any, and how you feel now and expect to feel about her in the future. Perhaps the better question to ask her is "was it worth it?" If you can allow yourself to believe her response, that will tell you what the future holds.

Good luck,

Seasalt


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

seasalt said:


> I don't usually quote Hillary Clinton, but "What does it matter?" Pick a reason you've been given or all of them for that matter. They don't guarantee she won't cheat again.
> 
> What matters is how you judge her remorse, if any, and how you feel now and expect to feel about her in the future. Perhaps the better question to ask her is "was it worth it?" If you can allow yourself to believe her response, that will tell you what the future holds.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Nothing will change the fact that it happened. Like I said earlier, she betrayed her son more than she did me. She is paying a price and I am judging every bit of remorse she shows. 

The who's, what's, and whys don't matter at this point. What's done is done and I either accept it or leave. Initially I stayed for the kids....I wasn't ready to rip their lives apart. She has shown extreme remorse and is acting like the woman I married. 

To the poster who didn't understand staying for the kids..... If she screws up, I will leave without hesitation. Why would the next time be different? Because I can walk away knowing I did all I could to save my family. If I waste a year or two over this and she screws it up, at least my daughter will be older and able to understand. She would have no idea why mommy and daddy left if it happened right now. I'm not doing that to her.

So if sacrificing for your kids is being a sucker, we'll I guess I'm a sucker. I love my kids and I think I can get past this. So the choice is leave without trying and break up my family, or sacrifice the present for hopes of a future. Yeah, I will sacrifice for my kids and if it doesn't work out, I can look my kids in the eye when they are older and tell them I always loved them and always put them first, even above me.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I've gone through my mind over and over and I cannot come up with one single reason why she would have an affair, and more specifically, with the loser she did it with.


I said it before and I know its not easy to accept but the main reason women have affairs is because they've lost, or at least lowered, romantic interest in their mates. Accordingly, your wife had a low romantic interest in you. (why she picked the "loser" is another question. But, and again hard to accept, he's probably not a loser in her eyes.)


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> I said it before and I know its not easy to accept but the main reason women have affairs is because they've lost, or at least lowered, romantic interest in their mates. Accordingly, your wife had a low romantic interest in you. (why she picked the "loser" is another question. But, and again hard to accept, he's probably not a loser in her eyes.)


Yes, I think it is as simple as this. Getting a WS to admit it may not be likely.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Yeah, I will sacrifice for my kids and if it doesn't work out, I can look my kids in the eye when they are older and tell them I always loved them and always put them first, even above me.


I've read this very often in these type of forums. Its usually the excuse a man gives for R. You are using the children as an excuse. 

Do you seriously think that your children will ask you if you gave it everything you had? If you decide to D, they will simply accept it as matter of fact. 

If you R, you do it for yourself, not anyone else. You give the gift of R because she's busting her ass to earn it. This martyr complex of yours only breeds resentment. This is why you feel like she got away with it. 

Also I see in another post of yours that you are getting the Hysterical Bonding sex. This, after YEARS of her depriving you, of just laying there, telling you that this is how marriage is. Now you are getting the porn star sex, yes? If so, you deserve it. She starved you for years after all. This may be affecting your thinking right now. Keep in mind, that HB is no guarantee of R.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> If she screws up, I will leave without hesitation. Why would the next time be different? Because I can walk away knowing I did all I could to save my family. If I waste a year or two over this and she screws it up, at least my daughter will be older and able to understand. She would have no idea why mommy and daddy left if it happened right now. I'm not doing that to her.



Generally the way these things happen is that you catch up to a series of lies that gradually unravel over time instead of catching them cold and having the entire ghastly truth come out in one fell swoop. You've already stated you can't believe what she has said so by your own admission it is more likely to be five minutes than two years. 



> I love my kids and I think I can get past this. So the choice is leave without trying and break up my family, or sacrifice the present for hopes of a future. Yeah, I will sacrifice for my kids and if it doesn't work out, I can look my kids in the eye when they are older and tell them I always loved them and always put them first, even above me.


Well the more likely thing is dragging the kids through more trauma so leaving out the more likely option makes the above a false dichotomy. Framing it as not understanding "doing it for the kids" is a straw man. Everyone agrees the kids are a priority. We just disagree on what is most likely to happen. 

The fact you've been so adamant about this tells me she took that into consideration before she even had the affair. She isn't about to tell you that because that would remove her whole basis for the cost/benefit calculation she has made.

So it makes perfect sense for her to conceal her thinking and say "I don't know why I did it" instead of saying "I knew you wouldn't leave me". 

It's an awful position they put us in, and I've been there.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I said it before and I know its not easy to accept but the main reason women have affairs is because they've lost, or at least lowered, romantic interest in their mates. Accordingly, your wife had a low romantic interest in you. (why she picked the "loser" is another question. But, and again hard to accept, he's probably not a loser in her eyes.)


She did tell me that she had shut me out. She says she doesn't know why, but she did. She said that she even made the kids less of a priority. She wanted to feel young and free again I guess.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> She did tell me that she had shut me out. She says she doesn't know why, but she did. She said that she even made the kids less of a priority. She wanted to feel young and free again I guess.


But why with her ex? What is it about the turd that rocks her world so much?

I think you need to get to the bottom if it. And as for the hot sex she's giving you? Women use sex as a tool, doesn't mean she wants it or is particularly enjoying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> But why with her ex? What is it about the turd that rocks her world so much?
> 
> I think you need to get to the bottom if it. And as for the hot sex she's giving you? Women use sex as a tool, doesn't mean she wants it or is particularly enjoying it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ouch Bashfulbull...not all us ladies do! That being said usually you go through hysterical bonding when you first "R", enjoy it it won't last though. It is your sub concious trying to deal and reconnect the bond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

To your original question OP...for my hubby I heard that statement through many Ddays over 20+ years, not until the last one when I was willing to walk away did he finally do the soul searching to discover why he repeatedly betrayed me over and over again. There is a reason but she and only she can do the work to discover what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> So if sacrificing for your kids is being a sucker, we'll I guess I'm a sucker.


Hawx, so you would have divorced her, if not for the kid ? Are you absolutely sure ? I think there is a major part of you that wants to reconcile too.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I said it before and I know its not easy to accept but the main reason women have affairs is because they've lost, or at least lowered, romantic interest in their mates. Accordingly, your wife had a low romantic interest in you. (why she picked the "loser" is another question. But, and again hard to accept, he's probably not a loser in her eyes.)


TP,
I finally get where you are coming from.

Considering the possible answers she could give, I'm selfish, needed validation, etc. 

and as I read I have been thinking, "but why would she not admit that?".

None would hurt as much or threaten reconciliation more than "I lost interest in you sexually and found our sex unsatisfying, and I did not believe it could be restored or feel it was worth the effort".


No wife who wants to save her marriage would find it easy to turn to her betrayed husband and tell him this with "R" in sight. This would also be a small feat of self-reflection for some individuals.

But really Hawx, it changes nothing, it still speaks more to her than you and it still is the thinking of a woman whom is clearly broken.

Take care!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why are you choosing to ignore the posts about finding the real extent of her affair. All you posted was that she confessed it was once and that you don't believe it. There was another poster who never bothered to find out the extent off his wife's affair and he used the exact same logic as you are using. "Doesn't matter if it was once or 20 times. She cheated. It doesn't matter". I suggest that you revisit this logic if you are plan to reconcile.


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## denisefire (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't know is an unacceptable answer . She knows why , sounds like it was a lack of self control , or looking for attention in in all wrong places. There is always a reason why , it is a lack of responsibility and commitment on her part , and she needs to own that . She created this hole in your heart , and she needs to give you a reason no matter what the answer is . Then she needs to commit the rest of her marriage to you proving you are all that matters to her, and regain your trust. She needs to put herself in your shoes and feel what she would feel if you cheated on her. Infidelity is one of the most hardest betrayal anyone can feel or experience. This should be the reason for her to be honest with you and be the beginning of the healing process. Stay strong and try to keep your heart open , if she can be honest with you.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Your post reads like a man who is using his kids as a excuse. Which is almost always the case. 

Your wife will likely do this again. Like i said she took a risk and won. And the kind of guy that would leave after a second time, would have found out the full truth, and kicked her out.

He then would force her to win her way back in. Thats not you. And she knows this.

You better believe that.

And take her back because you think she is worth it, not for the kids. That just setting yourself up for failure. 

Taking her back does not make you a fool, its how and why you do it.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.
> 
> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.
> 
> ...


Upon reflection, I think that for most WS (especially WW), the answer, regardless of which angle you approach it from (sex, ego, whatever), boils down to "I did it for the attention."


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

from what ive been able to get out of her, she did it because of the attention. she did it with him because it was easy and available. when he would come over to pick up my stepson, he would be hitting on her at the front door. i couldnt stand the jerk off before so i never paid attention to him when he came to pick up my stepson. So he was hitting on her by telling her how hot she was looking, and it fed her low self esteem....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

She's pathetic. No way I would take a woman like that back. Using her ex for sex and you for security? How much more disrespect are you going to take from her? My take is she hates him for the loser he is but she liked the sex with him. She snagged you, Mr. Dependable, gets you to marry her, then before the leftover wedding cake has dried out she back banging the ex and giving you nothing....nothing. 

You have faaaaaar more patience than I do my friend. 

Why don't you try loving yourself for once instead of loving a woman who does not deserve your love?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Why are you choosing to ignore the posts about finding the real extent of her affair. All you posted was that she confessed it was once and that you don't believe it. There was another poster who never bothered to find out the extent off his wife's affair and he used the exact same logic as you are using. "Doesn't matter if it was once or 20 times. She cheated. It doesn't matter". I suggest that you revisit this logic if you are plan to reconcile.


Her affair with the ex was more than a year ago!!! What was she doing all those months leading up to your dday? More of the same and you know it!!! Dude!!! Have you forgotten what initially brought you to TAM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> This fool was the very definition of my antithesis. They have a son together, he is an absentee father at best, deadbeat half the time. I am a family man, taking their child and loving him as my own. In fact, out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who had their childs best interest at heart. He also had the affair when his wife was pregnant.
> 
> He is a complete loser, cant hold a job, relies on his current wife for everything. I am successful and rely on myself to get things done. He is completely irresponsible and a cannot possibly be considered a "man" in any sense of the word.
> 
> So yeah, she picked complete antithesis.


Hawx

Do you ever think of keeping the stepson and dumping your wife?

Tell her you are considering this and listen to her answer.

She has more than just self esteem issues my friend.....


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> Also I see in another post of yours that you are getting the Hysterical Bonding sex. This, after YEARS of her depriving you, of just laying there, telling you that this is how marriage is. Now you are getting the porn star sex, yes?


People extract the wrong lesson from this. The right lesson is that the sex is a terribly simple light switch this woman can turn on any time she feels like it.

Previously, while needing to put the husband in his place, the switch is turned off and all manner of lies are delivered. Anything but "I'm doing it on purpose to make you feel bad, and I love the power trip it gives me". 

That's the lesson. I've had it done to me and instead of feeling grateful for suddenly having this horny **** wanting to get laid hard what I felt instead was RAGE. How dare you, after all of this merciless cruelty suddenly turn the sex switch on now that I am walking out the door? 

It is the other side of the power trip coin: I can make you miserable, and I can make you ecstatic. But it is always me in control.


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

hawx20,
how about in IC tell her you tried to give R a chance but you cannot move forward without the hole truth.
She still has secrets and that is a
deal braker for you.
Tell her you are done with the drama of what is more to be found.
She should had been forthcoming with answers if she truly wanted this to work . 
Just being remorseful isn't enough for R , it's the beginning of it. Honesty is the next step and she has failed.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> LOL I guess all I can say is I'm sorry to hear that. I remember asking her after dday how she could think I didnt find her sexy.
> 
> If I want to jump her bones everytime she undresses in front of me, I would tend to think that would make you feel like your spouse is very attracted to you. I guess not for our wives.


You can't put too much emphasis on the excuses the cheaters use. If you know you were treating her right, you were not to blame, no matter what she says, and there is not necessarily anything you can do to fix the reason. There ALWAYS is a reason the cheaters cheat, it's just not always a VALID REASON. Sometimes it's just selfishness and thinking they won't be caught.

To give an absurd example, if I was used to getting a lot of strange while I was single, and now that I'm married, I'm not getting any strange any more, and I want some strange, I could, after being caught cheating by my wife, tell her that she was not meeting my needs for getting some strange. Ridiculous.

To give a different analogy, I have kids and I take care of them, feed them properly, always make sure they have enough to eat. Every day, we each have one donut in the morning. One day, when one child leaves the table for a second, the other child eats the other's donut. Would it be appropriate to say that the donut glutton's "needs" were not being met? Again, ridiculous.

I'm not saying not to try to meet each other's needs, but be realistic. Some cheaters' needs are completely unrealistic, or cannot realistically be met by another person in a marriage, or just come down to selfishness. The reason for needing the extra "outside attention" could be insecurity over getting older, getting wrinkles, gaining a little weight, not anything to do with the spouse.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Seven pages dedicated to asking why. Such a waste.

Basically a WW could and wanted to.

Blame, justification, pointless.

Either divorce the bee-itch, or do the work to recover.

WW will not do the work then dump the bee-itch.

As to using the kids for motivation to recover. That is the best reason to try and save a marriage. Having a recovered loving marriage is the best thing for the kids. Them growing up in their biological family.

Attempting recovery does not mean it will be successful. Though not attempting will mean that the marriage and family will fail.

Any coach of any team will use anything to motivate his team to come back from behind.

There is nothing wrong telling a BH to fight for his kids. He may snatch victory from the jaw's of defeat. He may go down in a ball of flames. His kids are worth facing the flames.

Though many a marriage has become better post WW affair.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Yes, but what is the quality of marriage like after the affair? Disfunctionality may just creep through the "staying for the kids" marriage and impact the kids in some ways.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> You can't put too much emphasis on the excuses the cheaters use. If you know you were treating her right, you were not to blame, no matter what she says, and there is not necessarily anything you can do to fix the reason. There ALWAYS is a reason the cheaters cheat, it's just not always a VALID REASON. Sometimes it's just selfishness and thinking they won't be caught.


I think the correct assumption is that he was NOT treating her right according to what she felt she needed. That doesn't mean he is wrong, but nobody bases their emotional feelings on what their partner says they ought to be.

That's the problem.

She was cheating. In order to fix it one has to find out why and NOT fly off the handle if she indicates that he somehow wasn't perfect.

What I write here is not any excuse for cheating. But reconciliation is only possible when BOTH parties recognize their shortcomings.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Granted. But she has to start being honest with him first. She has to do what she can to stop his bleeding first. Then they can go back and quibble about who didn't do what for whom. He may have been neglectful, but she has been downright abusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

MrAvg said:


> She was not getting the emotional needs met or need for sex. Maybe your sex life was not going as well as you had thought. Or you had neglected her emotional needs.


The whole concept of "emotional needs" is hogwash. People cheat because they want 2. Regardless of how good or bad the marriage was, there is no justification or REASON other than "I wanted 2 cheat" that makes any sense at all.



> What she did was dead wrong, but she had some motivation, now is the time to find out why. Have you been to a IC and a MC?


He could drive himself nuts trying 2 find out why she cheated. There are no reasons. No good ones, at least. None that he's responsible for in any way shape or form.

-ol' 2long


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> I think the correct assumption is that he was NOT treating her right according to what she felt she needed. That doesn't mean he is wrong, but nobody bases their emotional feelings on what their partner says they ought to be.


Not correct. I treated her right. I wasnt a perfect husband, but this woman was treated right. Her own father didnt talk to her for a few weeks after finding out because he knows how well I treat her and the kind of man I am.

Anyways, after reading some of the responses, I kind of blew up yesterday. Sometimes being on this forum isnt the best thing. Anyways, I brought up the affair to her again and basically I got a few things out of it. 

One, I gave her to much freedom and along with all her young, single friends, she became intoxicated with that lifestyle. The MLC didnt help, but I guess thats the reason she went after younger friends to hang with. Family life was boring, while the single life was fun and exciting.

She disconnected from me and the kids. She told me she loved me, she just didnt like me. This isnt the first time she told me this so I guess this was the reason all along. Its basically the ILYBINILWY speech. She brought up all the fighting we used to do but then she told me that she now sees that it was her all along that was causing the fights. She projected all her guilt and negativity on to me. She was angry and didnt like me to protect herself from the guilt.
She said the disconnect and not liking me was more about her selfishness and guilt rather than anything I did. She told me she knows I was there for her and never neglected her. I just didnt fill a need of being single, fun, and exciting.

All along while the a-hole was coming over to pick up my stepson, he was hitting on her on my front porch. She loved the attention, it fed her low self esteem and low self worth. It was exciting which is what she craved. The kids and I were just there, somewhat of a burden to the exciting lifestyle she wanted to lead. 

So here we are. She has been extremely remorseful and is doing everything possible to make it up. I havent forgiven her and I told her that I'm not guaranteeing her anything past today. Everyday is a struggle and its going to be a very long and hard road to recovery. For those of you who say staying for the kids is just an excuse, well thats a bunch of crap. Thats the best reason for me to stay. I'll put my childrens happiness and well being above my own any day.

Bottom line, she made a mistake. Granted, its the worst possible mistake she could have ever made, but I THINK I can get over it. She was a loving and caring gf/wife. There was a definite line where the MLC happened and her attitude completely changed and she became a totally different person. During this time, when we would argue, she would tell me "Well you knew how I was before you married me" to which I would reply "Hell no I didnt, otherwise I never would have married you!". Thats the key. Its not like she was a complete b-itch from the day I met her. She turned into something awful when this MLC hit. The person she is being today is the person I fell in love with, married, and loved like crazy for the first 6 years of our marriage.

Now, the thing is, I've agreed to stay and work it out. I initially stayed for the kids....they kept me from walking out the door the day I found out. I want things to work out between us. I still love her, although now my love for her is fighting against anger, hate, and disgust I feel towards her too. I laid down the law with her. I told her exactly what I want from her and shes either going to give it to me, or I'm going to leave. I havent promised her anything other than today. I told her our marriage is day to day and only her consistent, loving actions over time will change that. She knows that the burden is on her to unharden my heart and remove the hate/anger/disgust that is in there now and refill it with pure love. She cannot hurt me any more. All I have to lose is a little time if things dont work out. I'm still young and my kids deserve it from me to give it a shot.

Worst case scenario, it doesnt work out. One day my daughter will ask why we got divorced and my wife will have to face the shame of telling her why. I will be able to tell her that I loved her more than myself and I did everything in my power to keep her in a loving home with her parents. My wife will have to live with the shame of knowing she put herself above her children, especially my stepson. I will of have shown my kids how to love, stand up to adversity, be strong, and fight for the people you love. -----Yeah, I can live with that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

This is her ex right? He still comes to pick up your stepson all the time? How is that going to be handled? Can you handle it that she is going to see him on a consistent basis? Is it going to eat away at you that this could happen again? I'm not trying to throw a monkey wrench into the works but this isn't a situation where she can go NC with her AP. This isn't a situation where you can eventually let it go. You're going to see this guy all the time and each time its going to remind you of what happened. How are you going to get past this?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

bfree said:


> This is her ex right? He still comes to pick up your stepson all the time? How is that going to be handled? Can you handle it that she is going to see him on a consistent basis? Is it going to eat away at you that this could happen again? I'm not trying to throw a monkey wrench into the works but this isn't a situation where she can go NC with her AP. This isn't a situation where you can eventually let it go. You're going to see this guy all the time and each time its going to remind you of what happened. How are you going to get past this?


They need to set up a go-beteen to pick up and hand off the kid. I would make it a requirement for R.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Bfree has an excellent point.
What repercussions has this POS had? Apparently he can just waltz in and bang your wife?
Oh well he got caught, at least he can keep seeing her every time he picks his kid up? 

I would not put up with such outrageous abuse! 
Your choices are of course yours, but your wife isn't yours and every time POS shows up, it is a reminder that your wife has been "shared" territory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

That's the thing that puts me in a bind. I haven't told his wife. He told me he would give up his son if I didn't tell her. This gem of a sperm donor was an absentee father and is screwing his second son before he was even born. My stepson hates him now. He told my wife he wants him dead.

So my bind is the best way to keep him away and not subject my stepson to him is to keep quiet. I told him when I talked to him that I know everything about his wife. I have all her contact info, both personally and professionally and can reach her at anytime. I have undeniable evidence too. I have all his personal info like ss# and dl#. He's a loser who can't keep a job and has bad credit. He needs his wife to survive. Even his side business is really hers. I seriously doubt he will ever come around. The risk is to great and the reward is too little. He never cared about his son and my wife was just an easy piece off ass to him.

If he ever does come around, I will ruin him financially, emotionally, and basically take everything he has away from him. His wife was always jealous of mine because she was the ex. She never treated my stepson right because of it. If she finds out he cheated with my wife while she was pregnant with their first, she would probably kill him.

So, the best NC here is to keep quiet. If I did tell her, legally I have no right to keep him away. I doubt he has the balls to come around, but that's not something I want to deal with. I told him he better pray that we R. If not, it's open season on him. I would hate to live with knowing another man could destroy me anytime he wanted. Let him live with that fear.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife knows what to tell you. 

Do you want to know if there is more to her affair ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> That's the thing that puts me in a bind. I haven't told his wife. He told me he would give up his son if I didn't tell her. This gem of a sperm donor was an absentee father and is screwing his second son before he was even born. My stepson hates him now. He told my wife he wants him dead.
> 
> So my bind is the best way to keep him away and not subject my stepson to him is to keep quiet. I told him when I talked to him that I know everything about his wife. I have all her contact info, both personally and professionally and can reach her at anytime. I have undeniable evidence too. I have all his personal info like ss# and dl#. He's a loser who can't keep a job and has bad credit. He needs his wife to survive. Even his side business is really hers. I seriously doubt he will ever come around. The risk is to great and the reward is too little. He never cared about his son and my wife was just an easy piece off ass to him.
> 
> ...



This is wrong. And very ****ty of you to play this card. Now don't try to play the martyr again about saving your family. He would not have a chance if you can trust your wife not to cheat.



> I would hate to live with knowing another man could destroy me anytime he wanted. Let him live with that fear


Think about this again. You missed the irony.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> This is wrong. And very ****ty of you to play this card. Now don't try to play the martyr again about saving your family. He would not have a chance if you can trust your wife not to cheat.


Why is this wrong? You think I want a constant reminder and have this guy come to my house every other week? Keep in mind, he was always an absentee father and there was hardly a relationship between him and my stepson. Before the affair, my stepson never wanted to go with him on the weekend. He would be pissed that he had to. After we found out, my stepson told my wife he was pissed at her and wanted to shoot him. He told her that he would gladly go to prison to see him dead. He texted this ahole the day we found out that he himself would tell his wife, he hated him and never wanted to see him for breaking up his family.

Not telling his wife to keep him away has nothing to do with trust in my wife. I dont know what I would do if this ahole showed up at my front step. I'm sure as hell not going to send my stepson into that environment when he has no desire to do so. I'm not taking a loving father away from a loving son. This ahole threw his son away without hesitation to save his ass. Thats the kind of "man" and "father" we are dealing with here.

So yeah, I will play this card.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Think about this again. You missed the irony.


Oh I know the irony. He didnt destroy me. He played a part which may eventually lead to the destruction of my marriage.....but he did not destroy me.

No, I'm talking about destruction. Losing everything. Losing your home, your family, another 18 years of child support (which has been such a burden for him for my stepson), having no credit with no successful wife to save your sorry ass. He will lose his business, his big fancy truck that his wife pays for will be gone.....

I divorce, it sucks, but I make good money, have excellent credit, and successful. I'll land on my feet and be okay. He divorces, he loses everything and lives with mommy and daddy who can hopefully try teaching this 40 year old how to be a man.



warlock07 said:


> Your wife knows what to tell you.
> 
> Do you want to know if there is more to her affair ?


Well after I blew up yesterday I told her I did want her to take a polygraph because I didnt believe it was just one time and she doesnt know why she did it. She told me no problem and she would set it up herself. I told her we're setting it up today.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The pickup can be arranged at some place other than your house. Does he actually need to come to your house for your wife to cheat on you ?

If he does not come to your house, does it mean he cannot cheat with your wife in any another way ? 

Which is why i am repeatedly asking you to verify what your wife said. It could be once or 10 time or just once. But relying on your wife's lies to make your decisions is bordering on being in denial.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> The pickup can be arranged at some place other than your house. Does he actually need to come to your house for your wife to cheat on you ?
> 
> If he does not come to your house, does it mean he cannot cheat with your wife in any another way ?
> 
> Which is why i am repeatedly asking you to verify what your wife said. It could be once or 10 time or just once. But relying on your wife's lies to make your decisions is bordering on being in denial.


Again, he doesnt want his son and my stepson wants nothing to do with him. I would basically have to use force to get my stepson to go over there. He offered to give up his son to save his ass. I never once told him to give up his son.

I'm not going to force my stepson over there. Once again, this is not being done for my wife, or lack of trust in my wife. This is being done because its what my stepson wants and what I want. Besides, he wouldnt pick him up anyways because he knows my stepson would tell his wife. He texted him that night I found out that if he ever sees him again the first thing he will do is tell his wife. 

Warlock, I know you are going to pick this next statement to pieces, but here goes anyways....I dont worry about this fool ever coming back or my wife cheating on me with HIM ever again. She saw the damage it did to me, but she also saw the damage she did to her son. She did immense damage to his psyche. Had I left, he would have been even worse off. As it stands now, I'm going to put him into therapy because I've noticed he is having issues with this. Like I've said before, she betrayed him much more than she did me. She never stopped to think who she was hurting when she had an affair. I think the reality of the situation has really hit her.

And...worse case, if for some reason she does, then she is the dumbest person alive and i'm better off with out her. Like I said, I have no expectations and she cant hurt me any more than what she already has.

She welcomed the idea of getting a polygraph so I can know that she is telling me the truth and I'll find that out shortly.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Oh I know the irony. He didnt destroy me. He played a part which may eventually lead to the destruction of my marriage.....but he did not destroy me.
> 
> No, I'm talking about destruction. Losing everything. Losing your home, your family, another 18 years of child support (which has been such a burden for him for my stepson), having no credit with no successful wife to save your sorry ass. He will lose his business, his big fancy truck that his wife pays for will be gone.....
> 
> I divorce, it sucks, but I make good money, have excellent credit, and successful. I'll land on my feet and be okay. He divorces, he loses everything and lives with mommy and daddy who can hopefully try teaching this 40 year old how to be a man.



What does you exposing this scumbag to his wife have to do with divorcing your wife ? You can expose him and still try to R with your wife


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Again, he doesnt want his son and my stepson wants nothing to do with him. I would basically have to use force to get my stepson to go over there. He offered to give up his son to save his ass. I never once told him to give up his son.
> 
> I'm not going to force my stepson over there. Once again, this is not being done for my wife, or lack of trust in my wife. This is being done because its what my stepson wants and what I want. Besides, he wouldnt pick him up anyways because he knows my stepson would tell his wife. He texted him that night I found out that if he ever sees him again the first thing he will do is tell his wife.
> 
> ...


I really don't get it.

Expose him.

His step-son wants nothing to do with him.

What can he do ? Force visitation ?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> I really don't get it.
> 
> Expose him.
> 
> ...


Legally, yes he can force visitation. Having this clown come to my house every other weekend would not be good for obvious reasons, but also for not so obvious reasons. I dont really know what I would do if I see him again. I dont want to deal with it.

Telling his wife will do nothing for me. It wont change my life, my situation, or make me feel better. I'd rather make sure he stays far away from ME first, my stepson second....I dont really think about my wife in this situation.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> This is the answer I always get when I ask my WW about her affair, and specifically, the moron she had it with.
> 
> I mean this guy is a loser in every sense of the word and not only did she betray me, but she betrayed her son.
> 
> ...


*Real answers:*

Thought I was in love..

Wanted some strange..

He made me feel special and gave me attention..

*Stupid answers that annoy the hell out of you and insult your intelligence:*

I don't know..

I don't remember..

Why does it matter..


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> Telling his wife will do nothing for me. It wont change my life, my situation, or make me feel better.


No, it won't do anything for YOU, but what about his wife? Maybe she hates/is jealous of your wife, so what! Doesn't she need to be warned about his sexual activity with other women? 

Has your w been tested for std's? Have you? Shouldn't his wife be tested? You're very concerned (commendably so) about your wife's son vis a vis the cheating/ruining his family. But, what about his OTHER children? Who is concerned for them? And for the health and welfare of their mother? If he's cheated on her with your wife, isn't it likely he's cheated on her with other women? If he brings home a fatal disease, who's going to raise his other children? That jackhole?!?

This is a decision his current wife should have the dignity of making for herself. She can't do that without the knowledge of what her marriage really is. She doesn't have that knowledge because you and wife have been less-than-forthcoming about it.

As there are very small children involved, and his wife's potential HEALTH at risk, I think you owe it to yourselves to be honest about the relationship/affair and let his current wife decide how she wants to deal with it. You're making decisions on YOUR marriage, afford her the same opportunity for her marriage.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Right now I dont give a damn about anyone other than myself. I never liked his wife anyways so I couldnt care less about what she needs. She treated my stepson like crap and always made ugly comments to him about her sperm donor husband having to pay child support and would tell my stepson she couldnt figure out why his mother needed money from him.

She married the loser, she knows he is one, let her deal with it.


I dont want this POS coming around. This is a unique situation to where legally, I cant stop him from coming every other weekend to pick up my stepson. If he values his wife over his son, well then so be it. All I know is I dont have to deal with his sorry ass and possible consequences of my actions if I ever see him at my front door.


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> ....Bottom line, they want something and may not even know just what that is, but they're either not getting it at home or the lack is in themselves. Someone different, perhaps even your antithesis, at least is different - and different is novel and exciting, if nothing else.


They don't know the answer to why? I know the answer, 

......and to quote someone from this board long ago, it is 

*unrealistic expectation of life in general*.​
From another thread, Hawx, think about the future. Do you think you will end up thinking that she gets away with it? Have you considered to just proceed with the D, and then you can both can be on equal terms either to honestly (really) be together or just blow each other off.

To each, his own. I may be harsh in my views.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Right now I dont give a damn about anyone other than myself. I never liked his wife anyways so I couldnt care less about what she needs. She treated my stepson like crap and always made ugly comments to him about her sperm donor husband having to pay child support and would tell my stepson she couldnt figure out why his mother needed money from him.
> 
> She married the loser, she knows he is one, let her deal with it.
> 
> ...


I agree with the others. This "arrangement" of yours, where you, in effect, protect the OM's Big Lie for him, won't last long. What will you say/do when the truth comes from someone else? What about your deal with the POSOM when the cat's out of the bag?

Exposure isn't about revenge or blackmail. It's about telling the truth.

-ol' 2long


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Tell your wife that you are going to DNA test your daughter. 

Not because she isn’t yours or because it would change things if she wasn’t. Do it to demonstrate to your wife how she has caused you to lose all the trust you had in her. Demonstrate how her actions have shaken the very foundation of your marriage.

DNA kits cost $30 at Walmart and you mail them to a lab to be processed for $130.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

2long said:


> I agree with the others. This "arrangement" of yours, where you, in effect, protect the OM's Big Lie for him, won't last long. What will you say/do when the truth comes from someone else? What about your deal with the POSOM when the cat's out of the bag?
> 
> Exposure isn't about revenge or blackmail. It's about telling the truth.
> 
> -ol' 2long


I've only got a couple more years till hes 18 and then none of this will matter. Once hes 18 then the sperm donor has no legal right to anything with him. Point is, I'm not saying I'm protecting him. I'll get his ass at some point in time, just right now I feel its best to keep quiet. Trust me, I have plans for him. I have undeniable evidence that isnt going anywhere, hell, I may need it myself so its not going anywhere.



Bookofjob said:


> They don't know the answer to why? I know the answer,
> 
> ......and to quote someone from this board long ago, it is
> 
> ...


I'm not going to make anything official. Right now I am struggling with internal conflict and thinking I'm letting her get away with it. I think thats normal, especially considering how this is a new discovery. Ultimately though, I think that as time passes, if she is back to being the woman I married and stays that way, then we can be happy and I can feel like she did pay a price like I did. I told her that this is going to be a very long, very difficult road to recovery and if shes not willing or able to do it, its best to end things now. I told her I'm in hell right now and shes going to have to willingly come in to my hell, and walk side by side with me out of here.

Even though I'm not officially divorcing her, I've told her that symbolically, the marriage we had is dead. Our anniversary date means nothing, our wedding rings mean nothing. I dont wear my ring and I've taken hers away. I told her if/when we reach a point to where the anger and disgust is out of my heart, she can ask for my hand in marriage and renew our vows. That new date, if it comes, will be our anniversary date and we will get each other new rings. Those old ones mean nothing to me anymore.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> Tell your wife that you are going to DNA test your daughter.
> 
> Not because she isn’t yours or because it would change things if she wasn’t. Do it to demonstrate to your wife how she has caused you to lose all the trust you had in her. Demonstrate how her actions have shaken the very foundation of your marriage.
> 
> DNA kits cost $30 at Walmart and you mail them to a lab to be processed for $130.



That may be a bit extreme. Besides, there is absolutely zero chance she isnt mine. Minus the eyes, she is my spitting image. Besides, she already knows she destroyed the foundation of our marriage. Not only that, but she didnt turn into this monster of a woman until about 4 years after my daughter was born. Prior to her MLC, she was the loving and affectionate person she is right now.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

_I've only got a couple more years till hes 18 and then none of this will matter. Once hes 18 then the sperm donor has no legal right to anything with him. Point is, I'm not saying I'm protecting him. *I'll get his ass at some point in time, just right now I feel its best to keep quiet. Trust me, I have plans for him. * I have undeniable evidence that isnt going anywhere, hell, I may need it myself so its not going anywhere.
_

OK, hawx; at least you have a plan. I for one couldn't abide the thought of never exposing the OM and it looks like you can't either. 

But stick to that plan. The day your stepson turns 18, make that POS understand; why that dish of sh* you'll be giving him - is best served cold.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I've told her that symbolically, the marriage we had is dead. Our anniversary date means nothing, our wedding rings mean nothing. I dont wear my ring and I've taken hers away. I told her if/when we reach a point to where the anger and disgust is out of my heart, she can ask for my hand in marriage and renew our vows. That new date, if it comes, will be our anniversary date and we will get each other new rings. Those old ones mean nothing to me anymore.


:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

badmemory said:


> _I've only got a couple more years till hes 18 and then none of this will matter. Once hes 18 then the sperm donor has no legal right to anything with him. Point is, I'm not saying I'm protecting him. *I'll get his ass at some point in time, just right now I feel its best to keep quiet. Trust me, I have plans for him. * I have undeniable evidence that isnt going anywhere, hell, I may need it myself so its not going anywhere.
> _
> 
> OK, hawx; at least you have a plan. I for one couldn't abide the thought of never exposing the OM and it looks like you can't either.
> ...


Oh I have a plan. There is no way in hell I am going allow this guy to "get out of jail free". He came to my home to hit on my wife and get in her pants. He succeeded, but the cost will be great. For now, let him live knowing life as he knows it can end any day. Thats gotta be just as hard to live like that.

When the day comes, it will be swift, harsh, and unrelenting...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

First of all if your stepson is 16 I am almost positive that he cannot be forced to see his bio dad. Second, why don't you have this POS sign a legal document relinquishing his rights and then expose him anyway? Like her or not his wife deserves to know.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

bfree said:


> why don't you have this POS sign a legal document relinquishing his rights and then expose him anyway?


After the second time we had to take the loser to court for once again failing to pay child support, we wanted to present that option. Unfortunately, its not so simple as to just sign a kid away. Besides, the OMs mommy and daddy wouldnt let him give up the kid. Maybe they should have taught him how to be a man since he has birthed 2 boys and doesnt know the first thing about being a man, much less raising one.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: I dont even know why I did it.....*



hawx20 said:


> After the second time we had to take the loser to court for once again failing to pay child support, we wanted to present that option. Unfortunately, its not so simple as to just sign a kid away. Besides, the OMs mommy and daddy wouldnt let him give up the kid. Maybe they should have taught him how to be a man since he has birthed 2 boys and doesnt know the first thing about being a man, much less raising one.


Then look into whether your stepson can be compelled into visitation with him. Don't allow yourself to get trapped into paralysis by analysis. Don't make excuses and disguise them as reasonable actions. All that will do is foster regrets down the line and sabotage your marriage's future health. Show your stepson and all your children how a man handles his business.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> What does you exposing this scumbag to his wife have to do with divorcing your wife ? You can expose him and still try to R with your wife


If he exposes him now, the child support may stop.

Now once the kid turns 18? Yep, I'd drop that dime. I'd have all the evidence ready for that day. At that point the child support is over, and he can't force visitation with the kid.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> If he exposes him now, the child support may stop.
> 
> Now once the kid turns 18? Yep, I'd drop that dime. I'd have all the evidence ready for that day. At that point the child support is over, and he can't force visitation with the kid.


Either way, he's going to pay CS one way or another. I just dont want to force my stepson over there and I certainly dont want him around my home or wife. 

Once he thinks hes done paying for this one, he'll have to pony up for the one he just had.....thats a heavy price to pay for a piece of ass....especially considering he had a comparable one at home.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Once he thinks hes done paying for this one, he'll have to pony up for the one he just had.....thats a heavy price to pay for a piece of ass....especially considering he had a comparable one at home.


Are you certain he's going to get dumped by the new wife? She may be mad as hell but not dump him.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Are you certain he's going to get dumped by the new wife? She may be mad as hell but not dump him.


I have no idea. She is the obvious breadwinner by a large margin. After some research, everything they own is in her name, including his business. The guy has bad credit, cant make it on his own. They have a beautiful big home, drive nice cars, and its not because of him.

He needs her, she doesnt need him financially. Plus, I tend to think most women wouldnt be to happy when there husband sleeps with their ex while they are 7 months pregnant with their first child.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Some new info....was talking to a mutual friend....apparently a few days after dday I was very pissed and started packing. She got off work and went to her parents to pick up our daughter and was extremely distraught at me leaving. 

Apparently she called a mutual friend and spoke to the wife. Well I called the husband today just to see what he was up to. He asked about how things were going and he told me he wanted to tell me something but to keep quiet about it.

My wife had told his wife all about the affair that day she was distraught. She said how stupid she was and she hated herself immediately afterwards. She said she did it because she couldn't talk to me and he would listen to everything and he started noticing her new trim body and would always compliment her. Wtf?!? I always listened and always complimented her!!!

She also said she hates the guy and wishes he would just die and she just liked the attention he was giving her. She said she never had feelings for him and regrets it all.....she also said she got caught up with the young single friends and loved getting to do things she missed out on when she was younger due to being a single mom.

She regrets hurting me and said it was the biggest mistake of her life and she hates herself. I still can't believe she needed attention and didn't think I listened to her.......well, at least I got some insight


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> If he exposes him now, the child support may stop.
> 
> Now once the kid turns 18? Yep, I'd drop that dime. I'd have all the evidence ready for that day. At that point the child support is over, and he can't force visitation with the kid.


So the child support payments are more important than the integrity of the marriage?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> My wife had told his wife all about the affair that day she was distraught. She said how stupid she was and she hated herself immediately afterwards. She said she did it because she couldn't talk to me and he would listen to everything and he started noticing her new trim body and would always compliment her. Wtf?!? I always listened and always complimented her!!!
> 
> She also said she hates the guy and wishes he would just die and she just liked the attention he was giving her. She said she never had feelings for him and regrets it all.....she also said she got caught up with the young single friends and loved getting to do things she missed out on when she was younger due to being a single mom.
> 
> She regrets hurting me and said it was the biggest mistake of her life and she hates herself. I still can't believe she needed attention and didn't think I listened to her.......*well, at least I got some insight*


In my experience, people with low self esteem, or people pleasers, tell others what they want to hear. If she knew this friend would be disapproving of the affair, she may have taken this tack in order to gain her friend's approval.

I'm not saying what she said isn't how she feels, but consider this: Your wife may not have felt comfortable telling her friend that she cheated basically for no reason other than selfishness, she knew her friend would disapprove of her for that, so she told her friend that it was because she felt you weren't giving her enough attention. Meanwhile, your wife does NOT tell you that because she knows it's not true, that you will simply refute it with plenty of examples of how you did pay her attention.

You can go crazy with this stuff. Suffice it to say, that some people have trouble admitting their faults to others - maybe we all do to some extent.

A lot of what you've been told that your wife told her friend does not ring true with me. That she hated her ex and wished he would die, but that she was sleeping with him. This seems akin to re-writing the marital history. Yes he is a loser, but she is attracted to losers, you alone are the only non-loser she's ever dated. I think you were closer to the real reason she cheated before - that she has low self esteem and this guy just buttered her butt up; obviously he is someone she CAN have strong feelings for, after all she married him once.

The excuses the wife gives her friends and the ones she gives her family and the ones she gives you might differ based on her perceptions of how they will react to any particular reason.

If there is one insight that is extremely positive that I would take out of this if I were you is that she didn't really badmouth you to her friend, say how horrible you were, what a lousy husband, what a terrible father, etc.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> My wife had told his wife all about the affair that day she was distraught. She said how stupid she was and she hated herself immediately afterwards. She said she did it because she couldn't talk to me and he would listen to everything and he started noticing her new trim body and would always compliment her. Wtf?!? I always listened and always complimented her!!!She also said she hates the guy and wishes he would just die and she just liked the attention he was giving her.


Thats just the same bullsh!t story she told you!! If she felt so bad after screwing her ex, why did she keep with the same behavior afterwards? Becaused she loved it!! The ex was just an easy springboard into better options!!! Get that damn poly done so can move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hawx,

Happy New Year! One thing that comes through in your thread is the anger. Naturally it does not just go away. At the same time you are a smart guy and know that living like the fuse of firecracker is not good for your health, or ultimately your marriage either. To be more alpha you need to get past the anger.

Your decision to R is your decision. On TAM it will always excite discussion because it triggers people. It is the existential choice. I like the way you write about the sperm donor POSOM, who does not take care of his son. You want to reinforce the fact that you are the boy's most important father figure.

Your step-son has a gut feeling. He knows that he has to be on your side to help preserve the life that he knows. He is willing to exhibit dislike of his father to do this. Your wife is also giving off the vibes that tell him, "yea, back up dad in this mysterious conflict because mommy is sure being nicer to everyone here. And bio-dad has run away."

However, bio-dad may be important to your step-son, although he cannot articulate it. You can be more alpha if you re-establish their relationship, a relationship they both have a right, too. You can tell your wife that the boy needs to see his dad. You can carry out the exchange so that she doesn't meet him one on one. Since, as you say, have his balls in a paper bag, you can tell him to meet in the parking lot of 7-11. 

You need to get your step-son pysched up to know that it is okay to love his dad. That will be healthier for him. If his dad cannot do it, then that is on him.

It is unclear if, and this was the reason you came to TAM, your sex life has recovered. Presumably your wife has been all over you, using sex to protect her DNA. She wants you around because at 40 with two divorces and children with two different men, she ain't got anything to offer to most men interested in LTR. When you consider that she cheated on H2 with H1 most will involuntarily let out the embarrassd WTF-yer-shxttin-me-jack chuckle.

Once you wrote that you would not be a vagina police for ever. Good. Your wife should respect you because she does and because she respects herself.

Is she working out and staying in shape. She should run or go to a different gym to stay in shape because you want her to be healthy and feel good. Also, do you want to have sex with a woman who feels that her body is not in shape?

Just as you need her to be in good physical shape, you want her to be psychologically healthy. She needs to respect herself. That is going to be a tough challenge. You say that she is trying to be nice to you. She needs to keep doing it but she also needs to feel that if you say something out of line she can politely speak up.

Your wife's choice of AP says loads about her lack of self esteem. She needs IC to figure it out.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Happy new year to you too longwalk! To cover a few of your points.....there never was a relationship between my stepson and the sperm donor. What little there was was forced because he picked him up only because he paid child support. My stepson never wanted to see him and we had to force him to go. The only time this punk wanted to pick up his son was on Father's Day so he could be "honored" as dad of the year. As a matter of fact, when my stepson mustered the courage to tell him he didn't want to see him, his response would be "oh you are coming because I pay your mom child support". It was never I love you or I miss you. He came because he was forced to pay and this was his way of "punishing" my wife.

We're talking about a man who would sell his visitation to us if my wife gave him back his child support. In fact, this is what led to me finding out about them. Let's not forget that he voluntarily threw his son away to save his sorry ass. I never mentioned never seeing him, that was the first thing he offered to do to save his ass. So no, there is nothing this punk can bring to my sons life other than teaching him how not to be a man, to which he has done an outstanding job. My stepson hates him with a passion, going so far to tell his mom he wants to kill him.

As far as sex, we are in HB phase. We will see how long this lasts. I decided to give her her "freedom" back. I told her to join a gym, giving her Facebook back, getting her cell back too. I figure I will give her a rope and if she hangs herself with it, so be it. She cannot hurt me. If she chooses to return to her old ways, and even if she cheats, I will bring the hammer down hard and she will be facing one ugly divorce.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. She has been extremely remorseful and is back to being the woman I married. Regardless of what happens, I know I will be alright.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I do believe you have a very clear head firmly planted over your shoulders.
Hoping this new year brings you happiness.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Hawx20- you stated that you would both be setting up the polygraph. Sorry, but I disagree with that approach. Do not let her prepare.

Set it up yourself, take her out and stop by. Once there, then give her a chance for a parking lot confession.

I do suggest following through with this action. It is a consequence and may result in a parking lot confession.

I dislike the free pass POSOM is getting from you. It sends a bad message. Bang my wife- no worries, I will keep my mouth shut. 

I understand your reasoning. I just disagree with it.

I do wish you and your family a successful R.

Good luck
WD


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Regardless of what happens, I know I will be alright.


Hawx

The fact that you know you will be ok no matter what happens is key.

This also helps with the reconciliation process.

Keep being you.

The OM is a douche. I just hope your Ex remembers that far into the future.

HM


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Agreed. Hell, some of them attack the betrayed for deciding to R because their spouse did it, yours will to.


Hawx, I grabbed this from another thread, that I don't want to hijack. You seem well-adjusted enough to ignore those attacks, and find the messages and advice that help. You'll also know what category to put this post in. I followed you here from the Sex in Marriage forum (I'm a married man who can't get laid.)

So, I'll just ask this one question -- even as she "explains" her affair, doesn't your wife also have to explain the previous years of inaction (and of course, they may be related.)

Now, I am rooting for you. I myself have two children, and I will do anything for them. Anything, at least right now, includes not getting laid. I believe they benefit from my presence today, and they will benefit from it in the future. I believe I benefit from it today, and I will benefit from it in the future. 

You seem wiling to endure your current pain for similar reasons. That is noble, but if you decide you can't handle it, it is just as noble to walk. Your children will learn something along the lines of "Don't make yourself miserable for some misguided sense of honor. Drop that class rather than get an F. Quit that job rather than be miserable, dump that girl/boyfriend rather than be treated poorly." Those are important messages that parents sometimes forget to demonstrate because we don't want to raise quitters.

If you stay together, your wife will 'get away with it.' There's no way around it, IMO. I'm sure you are not a perfect husband, but neither you nor your wife seem to believe you were an unrelenting, abusive ass. You did nothing to bring this about, and especially given who it was, your wife deserves reciprocity. But you can't deliver that without harming your children. (really, what would be similar? Leaving her -- and your stepson -- and telling him that you can't be his Dad anymore because his Mom wants his bio Dad, and has kicked you to the curb? That would be revenge, your wife would suffer greatly, for a long time, but your son gets hurt in the process, and you are trying to avoid that.)

I have a relative and a good friend who have dealt with cheating wives. Neither of them deserved it. But, like you, they would not hesitate to suffer pain if it meant avoiding having their children suffer pain. Yet, they are also strong enough to show their kids, by their actions, that one needn't suffer from some misguided sense of duty, especially if that created a difficult home life for everyone.

Choose what's right for you. And then change your mind if you think that is the new right.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

1812overture said:


> Hawx, I grabbed this from another thread, that I don't want to hijack. You seem well-adjusted enough to ignore those attacks, and find the messages and advice that help. You'll also know what category to put this post in. I followed you here from the Sex in Marriage forum (I'm a married man who can't get laid.)
> 
> So, I'll just ask this one question -- even as she "explains" her affair, doesn't your wife also have to explain the previous years of inaction (and of course, they may be related.)


First, I hope that your journey doesnt end like mine. Before I read your post, I saw the Sex in Marriage forum and kind of laughed because I remember posting in there and never expected to be in this sub forum.

From what I gathered from her, she shut me out emotionally and projected all her issues onto me to keep her guilt at bay. She said that was the reason we argued so much, why she blamed me for every argument when even the kids were telling her it was her fault, and why what little sex we had was just duty sex to keep me quiet.

To be perfectly clear, I stayed initially because of the kids and while they are a deciding factor in my R, they are not the sole reason. I do love my wife still, but my heart is now filled with anger and resentment as well. I hate that feeling of her getting away with it, but if we have a successful R, she will have paid a heavy price. Even if we are successful, she has lost a piece of me she will never get back, I will never fully trust her, I will never love her like I did, I will never blindly do the little things that made her life easier, she lost respect in my eyes and her sons eyes, and she will have to live with that guilt for the rest of her life.

Its been just under 2 months since dday. I dont feel pain anymore....not the slightest bit. Anger, yes, very much, but no pain. She cannot hurt me any further and if I ever feel in the slightest that she does not love me, or if she slips back to her old ways, I will not hesitate to leave.

Ever since my daughter was born, my life changed. Everything I do, I do for her. There were always 2 things I wanted for her. The first is when she decides to marry someone, I want her to say that shes looking for a man who looks at me the way my daddy looked at my mom. Sadly, my wife ruined this part but I hope one day to get it back.

The second is when I die, and she is speaking at my funeral, I want her to be able to look up and say my daddy did everything he possibly could to give me the best life and make me happy. I want to be the greatest man she will ever know, one who all men will be measured against. Every decision I make reflects this.

I know I can be happy with my wife again if she is truly back to being the woman I married and stays that way. I will not subject my child to a home filled with hate and resentment. I stayed because of the kids because I knew I would try everything to provide them with a loving home. I believe we can do this.

If we cant for some reason, then I would rather divorce than have her grow up in a angry home. I've told my wife she has been blessed by me with a second chance. There will not be a third. If she screws up again, she will be out on her ass and I can walk away knowing I did all I could for my family. No regrets either way.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

6301 said:


> I found out a while ago that a WW or WH can sit down across from you, look you straight in the eye and give you the most complete honest answer and it won't be good enough. That's not just talk, it's a fact.
> 
> I had to wait 40 years for that answer and it still wasn't good enough for me. I got the reason and it brought forth more questions, then more answers, like a dog chasing it's tail.
> 
> ...



So did you leave after 40 years? Or did they die? 

~sammy


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Thank you again. I told my wife that I'm not promising her anything past the current day. I told her that she needs to prove to me that she loves me every damn day and even then, it may not be enough. I told her I think I can get past this, but I'm not entirely sure I can.
> 
> 
> 
> She is not a proven serial cheater. She has been extremely remorseful. I'm actually been quite surprised at the level of remorse she has shown. Even looking at it with my highly skeptical eyes, I firmly believe her remorse is honest.



When I say the first part of this quote to my h, I usually hear, "Well then why are we doing mc? How long do I have to pay? You know I love you very very much. Look at all I've been doing to make up to you. There has to be an end to it all, and we have to move on as I dont want to be with to someone who cant love me back they way I so much want to share my love and to love with." 

~ sammy


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> When I say the first part of this quote to my h, I usually hear, "Well then why are we doing mc? *How long do I have to pay? *You know I love you very very much. Look at all I've been doing to make up to you. There has to be an end to it all, and we have to move on as I dont want to be with to someone who cant love me back they way I so much want to share my love and to love with."
> 
> ~ sammy


He doesn't get it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> I do love my wife still, but my heart is now filled with anger and resentment as well. I hate that feeling of her getting away with it, but if we have a successful R, she will have paid a heavy price. Even if we are successful, *she has lost a piece of me she will never get back, I will never fully trust her, I will never love her like I did,* I will never blindly do the little things that made her life easier, she lost respect in my eyes and her sons eyes, and she will have to live with that guilt for the rest of her life.


Don't you think that this missing piece of you is even missing not just to her to but is is gone from you in a broader sense. Would you be able to love another woman as deeply as you once did your wife? Hard until you you heal and yet that healng might be imperfect. I can run but some meniscus is not there in my left knee. Running will never feel the same.

You may do the little things to make her life easier again, perhaps not blindly but willingly. I think you could tell you wife when you see something that you would have done automatically but do it only after some forethought to consider whether you will feel resentment could be a good way to illustrate how hard the anger has made your heart.

Perhaps you can tell her that your goal is to gradually overcome these thoughts. Perhaps she will have to three times as much being nice to you in return to gain some emotional parity. You can tell her that if she feels emotionally abused by your anger she should speak up, not to attack you but to ask for a break.

Living with guilt can be good in some ways, but at certain point your might hope that she will feel that she has grown as person and is not that cheater anymore. She may still feel responsible for her adultery but consider herself to be an adulterer, that she would not cheat because she does not respect cheaters. That might sound like hypocrisy but she needs to take a stand.

Your explanation about OM's character better explains why he is not important to your son.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Don't you think that this missing piece of you is even missing not just to her to but is is gone from you in a broader sense. Would you be able to love another woman as deeply as you once did your wife? Hard until you you heal and yet that healng might be imperfect. I can run but some meniscus is not there in my left knee. Running will never feel the same.
> 
> You may do the little things to make her life easier again, perhaps not blindly but willingly. I think you could tell you wife when you see something that you would have done automatically but do it only after some forethought to consider whether you will feel resentment could be a good way to illustrate how hard the anger has made your heart.
> 
> ...


Longwalk is right. You can't be ruled by anger for the rest of your life. Your wife is also a human being. She has hard work to do. But she also needs some encouragement, some signs that you see her trying her best.

No, it won't ever again be as it was. But I'll let you in on a secret. As time passes we all change. It will never be exactly the same as it was for any of us. Cherish what you have that is good and hope that as it grows you can forgive.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Op I just read your entire thread... and the only thing I feel a need to say is that I admire you.
My parents used the kids as an excuse for staying together, and as the youngest so much of the end of their misery was built around my HS graduation. They sold the family home and the divorce was final the month after I got my diploma. I moved to go to college, and felt like I no longer had a home. When my own marriage became toxic because of abuse, leaving the home and family I'd known for over a decade was painful. One thing that strengthened my resolve was knowing I had to leave as much for my son as I did myself. The relationship you hope your daughter admires in her parents is the same wish that I hope for my son.... it took me a long time to come to peace that it wouldn't be with his dad, but it can be with someone that loves him as their own. 

If you can have the kids be the glue for now, it is valid. Just please don't stay if you can't make your home happy again. I grew up in that kind of house, and it sucked.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

If you actually do go through with her taking a poly(yes, I think that it's doubtful you'll make her take one now), think about your deal breaker. Where is your line in the sand?

Because you very well could find out that there is more. So be prepared for it. Think about how you will react, what you will say and what you would do, should you get some really bad news, leading up to, or during the poly....


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> Op I just read your entire thread... and the only thing I feel a need to say is that I admire you.
> My parents used the kids as an excuse for staying together, and as the youngest so much of the end of their misery was built around my HS graduation. They sold the family home and the divorce was final the month after I got my diploma. I moved to go to college, and felt like I no longer had a home. When my own marriage became toxic because of abuse, leaving the home and family I'd known for over a decade was painful. One thing that strengthened my resolve was knowing I had to leave as much for my son as I did myself. The relationship you hope your daughter admires in her parents is the same wish that I hope for my son.... it took me a long time to come to peace that it wouldn't be with his dad, but it can be with someone that loves him as their own.
> 
> If you can have the kids be the glue for now, it is valid. Just please don't stay if you can't make your home happy again. I grew up in that kind of house, and it sucked.



Thanks. Our home right now is actually more loving than its been in a couple of years. I remember one of my first posts on TAM was about feeling unappreciated by everyone in my family. What hurt the most was my daughter being that way to. She was always loving to her mother and not towards me. The one thing I have noticed since dday is that my daughter has completely changed too. She has been much more loving towards me now that she sees her mother being that way too. Just another thing I told my wife about how destructive her attitude was.

I initially stayed for the kids, but I wouldnt stay if the atmosphere at home was angry and hostile. I dont want them growing up like that. So far, my wife has done a complete 180 back to the woman she was before her MLC attitude change and my daughter is reacting to it in a good way.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Sounds like you're in a good place, mainly because of this:

_She cannot hurt me. If she chooses to return to her old ways, and even if she cheats, I will bring the hammer down hard and she will be facing one ugly divorce._

Good luck the rest of the way, wherever it leads.


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