# question for WS, Is this comming out of the fog?



## lost2011 (Dec 12, 2011)

For the most part I believe my wife and I are reconcilling well. Her actions show that she is trying to help me and save our marriage. She minimized things in the beginning a lot but would apologize profusely. She seems to take be trying to own things and work on herself a lot. This past week she seems to be extremely depressed and breaks down crying anytime i talk about the affair. She tells me she does not like herself very much at all. She said she wonders how anyone could ever like her and how can I love her knowing that she hurt me and did the awful things she did. 

My question is this comming out of the fog. Is it a stage the WS goes through? Is this showing true remorse? I seem to be the one consoling her now. I'm confused and looking for some insight. Thanks


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

self-loathing is usually designed to gain pity and sympathy

she may view her actions as bad and awful, but she needs to do something about it instead of whining


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I would say yes, but she's not finished yet. I would bet that what you're seeing is her really taking ownership of what she's done, holding herself accountable, and having to process that into her self image. It's not an easy thing to do. What she's got to do now is come to understand why she did it. To find, understand, and deal with what in her let her cheat. In my experience only after she does that will she begin to trust herself again. 

Be careful that in consoling her you don't let her off the hook. Remember, she's got to pay her stupid tax - all of it.

Edit to ad: AR makes also makes a very good point above.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

lost2011 said:


> She tells me she does not like herself very much at all. She said she wonders how anyone could ever like her and how can I love her knowing that she hurt me and did the awful things she did.


Be very careful on how you respond to this.

She is fishing for you to rugsweep it and for you to say "ok, let's put it behind us".

she is also fishing for you to let her not take full ownership of her actions.

she is also telling (warning) you that she may not end up respecting you if you are too easy on her. She doesn't want a doormat and if you cave and comfort her, and work on making her consequences and guilt go away - well that is what you would be acting like.

She needs to you actually be strong, impose and enforce consequences - HOLD HER ACCOUNTABLE.

It's tough because you too want this to go away - but you have to go through this journey to full deal with the affair.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Is it also possible she's missing the OM? I'm not sure how long it's been since NC, but some WS's will "mourn" the loss of the affair, especially if it was an EA. I believe this can also make them feel worse, because they know it's kinda f*#ked up.

There were many times I hit on something about the affair that made my H (the ws) feel depressed, especially during the early part of R. Not to mention, he'd have moments of missing the attention and ego stroke from the affair. So there were strange times where I was the shoulder he needed to lean on. His self image was shot _and_ he no longer had the "fantasy escape" to artificially make himself feel better. 

We're over a year since d-day and even though my H has done these horrible things in the past, this is the best he's felt about himself in a long time. He's no longer lying and cheating, so his self image is more positive than ever. That's how he battles the days when he gets down about how he treated me and our marriage in the past, he focuses on it being the past. Now he stays centered on how he's being honest and not that deceptive person anymore.

However I think this state of mind has to come from within the WS. For instance, trust is too fragile at this point for me to be the one saying how honest a person my H is now. I want to believe it and hope it's true, but I don't _know_ it's true. My H understands, he says it's enough for him to know it's the truth. Before d-day when he had my trust 100%, he felt like such a $#!tty person, because he knew he didn't deserve it. Now he knows he deserves the mistrust, but he feels better because he also knows he deserves the trust I give.

Hope this helps and makes sense!


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## lost2011 (Dec 12, 2011)

Saffron said:


> Is it also possible she's missing the OM? I'm not sure how long it's been since NC, but some WS's will "mourn" the loss of the affair, especially if it was an EA. I believe this can also make them feel worse, because they know it's kinda f*#ked up.
> 
> There were many times I hit on something about the affair that made my H (the ws) feel depressed, especially during the early part of R. Not to mention, he'd have moments of missing the attention and ego stroke from the affair. So there were strange times where I was the shoulder he needed to lean on. His self image was shot _and_ he no longer had the "fantasy escape" to artificially make himself feel better.
> 
> ...


First, thanks for all of the advice to everyone. It has been about 7 months from d day. The NC text went out about 2.5 weeks ago. We did not send any mail or tell his spouse. We discussed this in MC and the MC said it may be best in our situation to not let the A out in public. I can see where she might be feeling sorry for herself and I will be careful to how I deal with her. Every little bit of advice helps!


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My WS did this same thing about a month ago and again this past Monday. Yesterday she was crying and told me that it was over how much pain she has caused me and wanted to talk about it. To me these are all positive signs that our WS's are taking ownership of what they caused. The self pity, self loathing, I believe is part of the process and could be done for sympathy and seems to me to be somewhat selfish. Crying or feeling bad for the pain they caused is more focus on what they did to you/us and is showing remorse and showing respect to what the BS is going through. I think both are needed for them to heal (IMO).

I would validate her feelings. Give her a hug, tell her you love her and tell her I know it is rough what you are going through and that you are here for her. And let it go at that when she has these moments. When she does this just realize that is it about her. But she is going through crap as well as us.

But like others said do not let her rug sweep you. And do not let her make it all about her (if it is all about her she is not focused on you).


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Saffron said:


> Is it also possible she's missing the OM? I'm not sure how long it's been since NC, but some WS's will "mourn" the loss of the affair, especially if it was an EA. I believe this can also make them feel worse, because they know it's kinda f*#ked up.
> 
> There were many times I hit on something about the affair that made my H (the ws) feel depressed, especially during the early part of R. Not to mention, he'd have moments of missing the attention and ego stroke from the affair. So there were strange times where I was the shoulder he needed to lean on. His self image was shot _and_ he no longer had the "fantasy escape" to artificially make himself feel better.
> 
> ...


This is awesome and so so true.

Great post Saffron


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lost2011 said:


> First, thanks for all of the advice to everyone. It has been about 7 months from d day. The NC text went out about 2.5 weeks ago. *We did not send any mail or tell his spouse.* We discussed this in MC and the MC said it may be best in our situation to not let the A out in public. I can see where she might be feeling sorry for herself and I will be careful to how I deal with her. Every little bit of advice helps!



what? why not? She deserves to know the truth!!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Good luck Lost.


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## lost2011 (Dec 12, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> what? why not? She deserves to know the truth!!


That has been a struggle in my heart. My wife has even suggested she admit it to her and explain everything. Our concern is we have children and having the affair out in public would put to much pressure on us to be allowed time to R. MC knows us well and the situation. All of us agree that we would love for her to know but fear that it would destroy us. Yes, i feel very selfish for it. They do not have any children and are not of the age where they probably will. Believe me I would love to tell them but do not want to risk loosing the possiblity of R right now and put my families whole life in a bigger mess.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

How does exposure stop R or hurt R, I don't see the connection you are making. When I exposed it actually strengthen our R. The OM tried to throw my wife under the bus which led to her hating his guts.

and why do you think telling the wife will lead to some big media event where your kids will find out?


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## lost2011 (Dec 12, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> How does exposure stop R or hurt R, I don't see the connection you are making. When I exposed it actually strengthen our R. The OM tried to throw my wife under the bus which led to her hating his guts.
> 
> and why do you think telling the wife will lead to some big media event where your kids will find out?


He already threw her under the bus!I have the text messages and showed her that he sent me. Wouldn't say a media event but yes my children would find out very quickly and the majority of the people where i live would know. I know this because a close relative of mine wife's had an A in the same community and it was very devastating. We have been in discussion with the MC on a way to inform the spouse that they should be suspicious of their husbands behaviors.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry I don't know your backstory, but the decision not to tell the OMW seems very self-serving. Obviously, she doesn't know anything or you 3 (yes, 3 other people, at least, know about her husbands activities) would not be using your MC time to devise ways to lie to someone else about their marriage.

I understand your reasons. But think about it, is it really fair to leave an innocent wife in the dark so your reputation stays pristine? If you are afraid of your children being harmed by the fallout, you can easily tell her (anonymously) that her husband was seen with another woman -- you don't even have to name anyone! 

You participate in the betrayal when you sit on information like this...Wouldn't you want to know if you were her?

And if DDay was 7 mos ago......why did NC only happen 2 weeks ago? Your marriage R will not fall apart because you show respect for the OMW by doing the right thing by telling her. 

And be careful about your WS "feeling bad".... try not to equate that with remorse. Feeling bad is her focusing on herself where remorse is focused on helping you, the betrayed, heal.


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## lost2011 (Dec 12, 2011)

Yes it does feel very self serving and yes it is about protecting my family. Yes, I would like to know. Yes, we are looking to anonymously let her know he was texting another woman. NC was told to him the night of discovery by her. NC text was wife's idea. I have had a hard time dealing with this as we have kept everything between us an our MC. She did this to help me. I have sent several short texts to the OM during the past few months and have him pretty shook up and worried. He's very narssasitic. I have his wife's e-mail and hand written notes on what was texted from my wife that i can send at a drop of the hat. My wife knows this and is ok with it if i decide it is best for me. My wife has even suggested we both sit down with his wife and let her know. 

Yes, it feels very selfish of me! I'm not worried about being pristine. I am about as humble as anyone. I am doing everything I can to protect my children from the fallout. I believe the anonymous way would be best.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

lost2011 said:


> Yes it does feel very self serving and yes it is about protecting my family. Yes, I would like to know. Yes, we are looking to anonymously let her know he was texting another woman. NC was told to him the night of discovery by her. NC text was wife's idea. I have had a hard time dealing with this as we have kept everything between us an our MC. She did this to help me. I have sent several short texts to the OM during the past few months and have him pretty shook up and worried. He's very narssasitic. I have his wife's e-mail and hand written notes on what was texted from my wife that i can send at a drop of the hat. My wife knows this and is ok with it if i decide it is best for me. My wife has even suggested we both sit down with his wife and let her know.
> 
> Yes, it feels very selfish of me! I'm not worried about being pristine. I am about as humble as anyone. I am doing everything I can to protect my children from the fallout. I believe the anonymous way would be best.


Good to hear you are planning on telling her......why the wait?? Do it anon is you must, but do it now. You are being a good father to want to protect your family, but you are being an even better father by standing up for truth and honesty and telling the OMW asap.

I would caution you against sitting down with your wife and doing it.....you should do it alone. What if she has found evidence of her own and sends it back to you? That happens a lot in the stories I read here. Set up an anonymous gmail and TELL HER today. Good Luck and peace to you.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I get it lost2011. My wife nor I told my AP's husband for much the same reasons. We didn't want the additional drama it was sure to create in the middle of us trying to reconcile. We wanted to focus on us - their marriage is their problem. 

I agree that that the other loyal spouse has a right to know, I just never saw that it was my or my wife's responsibility to tell him.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I get it lost2011. My wife nor I told my AP's husband for much the same reasons. We didn't want the additional drama it was sure to create in the middle of us trying to reconcile. We wanted to focus on us - their marriage is their problem.
> 
> I agree that that the other loyal spouse has a right to know, I just never saw that it was my or my wife's responsibility to tell him.


Ohhh, sig, no way! You never told, even anonymously???? That is a surprise to hear.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Ohhh, sig, no way! You never told, even anonymously???? That is a surprise to hear.


Well I abhor anonymous anything. I run a business in which we unfortunately don't make everyone happy all the time and transactions are pretty large - meaning I run into people with axes to grind more than I would like. I have had several anonymous "tips" about employees dropped in my lap over the years. Never. Not once have I had one turn out to be true. When I get one I'll pay a little more attention, but like I said I have yet to have one pan out to be anywhere near the truth. For me - if it's not important enough to put your name behind it then it might not should be said. 

As for not telling my AP's husband - I know my position is counter to the conventional wisdom here on TAM and I do agree that the loyal spouse has a right to know. I just don't see where it's really the duty of anyone in particular, excepting the cheating spouse, to tell them. Personally. We were wounded, my AP was proving to be something of a bunny boiler, and we just didn't want the drama. We did get close however when my AP would not stop fishing. She quit just before my wife was going to contact her husband.


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