# Husband's double dates



## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

My husband has been going out with a married male friend and 2 single female friends. It didn’t bother me the first few years, because it didn’t make me feel like they were more special than me at that time. They go out 4-5 times a year - usually for birthdays. My issue is that I have been told I am not welcome to go with them. They want it to be just them. He never takes me out on dates alone or with other couples. We only go out as a family. When we do go out it's usually for our anniversary and I'm the one who always plans it- he takes no initiative in trying to make it special. 
I feel like I should be able to go with them if I want to. He encourages us spending time with the married male friend and his family- so he has no issue with me interacting with the male friend. But I'm not allowed to join when it's their foursome going out. To me it's like watching my husband plan, get ready and go out on a double date every few months, he stresses out about finding a date that works for all of them, and has even made the restaurant reservations for them. 
The other wife doesn't seem to care, but her husband is a social butterfly and it's a different marriage dynamic - she is dependent on him for everything- he also takes her out a lot, so maybe she doesn’t feel slighted.

He thinks I'm being irrational. I think it's disrespectful to me and our marriage. I hate that he spends more energy on them than on me. I’ve asked him to make more of an effort for us to go out on dates and to plan things every once in a while so it’s not always me. He's never carried it out. Over the past couple of years if I ask him to go out, just us, he always says no- he uses the excuse that he doesn't want to spend the money or if we're doing something else as a family that weekend he thinks that's enough. He doesn't seem to have a problem putting in the same kind of effort into going out with this group. He will schlep to the city and spend money at a really nice, trendy restaurant with them without a problem. 

What also bothers me is that this is the only group of friends he shuts me out of; actually the women are who he is shutting me out from, because we socialize a lot with the male friend and his family. Some say he probably wants to be able to let his hair down, but he doesn't seem to have any problem letting his hair down when I’m around all his other friends, everyone else in his life I am welcome to be with. Old high school friends, college friends, other work colleagues. It's these 2 women that he all of a sudden can't have me be there for. These are the only group of friends he keeps me from- any other group he expects me to be there for when there are Bbq's or group family dinners - even when he takes work colleagues out- he's asked me to meet them - so it's not like he's ashamed of being out with me. Why is this the only set of friends I'm banned from - I think it's completely wrong and disrespectful.

These are not Pre-me friends. These friends are old work colleagues. He met them after he met me- they know me- 2 of the 3 were at our wedding. So it’s ok for them to come to our wedding but not ok for me to go out with them. It's not like they were friends before I was in the picture. So that's what makes it worse- it's not like I don't know them!
The last time they went out he called and requested for me to be ready for sex when he got home. So I feel something happened to get him worked up! I can't get over that in my head! Needless to say he didn't get it that night! I could not believe he actually asked me- he knows that i don't like him going out with them. How he thought I would be happy to sleep with him when he got home is beyond me- that's the thing, he doesn't seem to get how wrong it is. I just said I wasn't feeling like it. I didn’t even talk to him about it because I didn’t want to get into a huge fight, but I can’t get over this situation. He would think I’m being ridiculous. He has never called on the way home from anywhere asking for sex so that was a first in general so I know it was the evening out with them that set this off, because this isn’t a normal thing for us.
Our sex life is good, so there’s no reason for him to really look for it elsewhere.

I am not the type of wife that limits him in any way- he can do what he wants, buy what he wants, we both have friends we socialize with but my friends are always inclusive, they have never and would never put a condition on an outing saying that spouses are not welcome. The only exception is obviously if we're having a girl’s night out, and I would expect to not be invited to a guy's night out and I encourage him to have those types of nights out. I think it’s good to have time out with your girlfriends or guy friends. I don't have a problem with him having female friends or seeing them. It’s me being excluded on purpose that is my problem. I don't think I would feel the need to go everytime if I was at least invited and it was left up to me to go or not go and that it isn't a surprise to the others when I show up. Which way back the few times I went before I was banned, I got the feeling that some were surprised to see me there.

I work, I have my own money, it's not like we can't afford to go out together or separately. I have my friends and family, but I don't socialize with male friends without him and I don’t prohibit my husband from ever going with me to spend time with my friends and family. It's always his choice whether to go or not. He is very anti social with my friends, and they notice, but they are always nothing but nice and inclusive with him when he does come out with us. I just don't feel comfortable with this arrangement they have. It’s not appropriate; it's disrespectful to me and our marriage. I don’t know who this restriction is coming from and my husband is quick to defend his friends. If it’s his friends who are putting this on him, he should show that his marriage is important by making me comfortable with this situation. What is being said and done that I can't be a part of? He is extremely against anyone knowing about any issues/problems we may be having in our marriage, so if he's discussing us when he's out, he’s being a complete hypocrite because he strongly feels that it is not appropriate to talk about our problems with others. I do think that one of the women may have at one time had a thing for him and she has barely spoken to me in the past. The 2 times I went out with them before I got completely shut out she seemed miserable but I've seen pictures of them out on other occasions where she's all happy, so I have a feeling she's where this is coming from- but can't be 100% sure. His male friend has sometimes made comments about how this is a tradition, and it shouldn't be changed and has been a little snarky with me- so it may be coming from him too. I really think it's them putting pressure on him. I trust my husband not to cheat, I don't trust the others, and I think he needs to show them a strong marriage and put a stop to their disrespect. by including me, it would show me he cares and respects our marriage, and he shows them that I am what's important and he wants to spend time with them but with me as well and we should all be friends not just the four of them like some double date. I don’t see what the problem is with saying, you know we rarely get to go out so we wanted to come out together and have a nice night out with you guys. What’s so hard about that?

Am I being irrational? Again this is the only group of friends that he restricts me from. No restrictions on anyone else, including current work relationships. I’m scared to even bring this up to him again. I want to hope that he would take it seriously, but I'm afraid this is something that we won't reach agreement on and it'll be the end. It this has been something we have fought about in the past but I just can't continue to allow it over and over again for the rest of our lives. It gives me panic attacks just thinking about having to deal with the next time they decide to go out. A onetime dinner with a high school sweetheart to catch up is one thing, but this is a continuing “tradition” that they have going that I can’t live with for the rest of my life.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

If my W did what your H is doing, D papers would be served.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If my partner tried to pull this crap she would be my ex partner very quickly.You are been played for a fool and I would bet serious money that these female "friends" are attractive women.Ask him how would he feel about you taking up ballroom dancing lessons with a male friend and see how he reacts, the arrogant *******.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

The fact that he continues to do it even though he knows that it bothers you is disturbing & disrespectful. He's violating his vows. The next time he did this, he'd be coming home to an empty house. And as for the demand to be ready for sex, I would have put him on video chat & given him a big ass middle finger.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I guess you gotta give it to your H for being able to get away with this, and have you go along with ...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

His behavior is absurd and your acceptance of it is sad and shows a lack of self confidence and self worth. Sorry to be blunt but TTH is my name.

All you have to do is decide on your boundaries and stick to them like glue - regardless of what he says or wants. These are YOUR boundaries. He's free to do what he wants and set his own boundaries but you MUST enforce your own.

ALL interactions with any OS "friend" in a relationship must be open and transparent. Any notion of "privacy" in an OS relationship is wholly inappropriate in a marriage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

My boundaries wouldn't even allow a one time dinner with a high school sweetheart with the intent of catching up... 

Just... no.

So disrespectful...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

To be more explicit... next time just show up and join them. Don't ask. It's your right. That is if you don't want to confront.

You might even bring a date if you want to make a point. And make it an available and good looking one. Your H won't get the point any other way.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

My partner would never even suggest something like this and neither would I. I would never tolerate this disrespect and I would never disrespect him like this either. 

You should not have let it come this far. You should have put your foot down the very first time. Nevertheless, it's not too late. You need to be serious about the boundaries you set because it communicates to your partner what you are willing to accept. Beyond dealing with this specific situation, you need to figure out what messages you've been sending your husband in the past for him to think this would be ok in the first place.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, it sounds like you're afraid to have and maintain boundaries for some reason. By boundaries, I mean things that you will and will not tolerate in a relationship or from a partner. It sounds like you're very proud of having a relationship where you're not "limiting him in any way" so that he can do what he pleases. You like being the cool wife who's husband doesn't feel constricted by the relationship. I almost wonder if you're somehow afraid to stand up for yourself, or for some reason just think this is something you have to tolerate? In any case, if your husband was a great guy, your lack of boundaries might be just fine because it wouldn't occur to him to cross the reasonable lines of marriage even if you didn't insist. Unfortunately, it seems that your husband isn't that sort of man. He feels _so_ free that _he's not even willing to limit himself_ and is actively dating other women with your full knowledge. The fact that he knows you don't like it is apparently irrelevant to him. The fact that he's rubbing your nose in it, trying to manipulate you into thinking this is normal, and emotionally bullying you about your supposedly irrational jealousy, says nothing good about his character either. 

There's a glaring lack of respect there. He doesn't respect you or your marriage enough to not date others, or to take your feelings into consideration. But you also don't respect yourself enough to say "no more" and really mean it. If you did, you would have at least separated, if not filed for divorce, immediately once it became clear that he doesn't respect you and doesn't really care how you feel. 

You want a faithful husband. He wants a wife at home and the ability to date like a single man. I suppose you both lack boundaries. But apparently you're the only one who is bothered by the lack of them. Perhaps it's well past time to really think about what you're willing to tolerate from a partner. And what you're willing to do if your partner insists on repeatedly exhausting that tolerance. Not to punish him, but to remove yourself from a clearly disrespectful and hurtful situation that doesn't seem to be on the path to improvement.

ETA: By the way, take it from someone who once unwittingly found herself in that position, you being included in one of these little date evenings with his buddy and the two OW would not be the cure-all you seem to imagine. Instead, you'd be much more likely to find yourself having a rather spectacularly awkward night out with your husband and the woman who is clearly more important to him than you are, while everyone but you smirks and rolls their eyes about your presence. There's very little on this earth more humiliating than having it made very plain - in person - that you are actually the irritating, even somewhat laughable, third wheel to your husband and his mistress.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It became not OK when you were not invited.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Rowan said:


> OP, it sounds like you're afraid to have and maintain boundaries for some reason. It sounds like you're very proud of having a relationship where you're not "limiting him in any way" so that he can do what he pleases.


 @Rowan picked up on an excellent point here.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't know what you think you have, but it's not a closed marriage and it's not to a faithful, devoted husband.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I only had to read one line into your original post to vote "Yes, this is inappropriate." I agree with everything the other posters have said. His behavior is disrespectful to you and to your marriage, and you need to draw some boundaries with him. If he wants to stay married to you, this behavior needs to stop.

He says you're not welcome? WTF? You are MARRIED. That means you should be welcome to go anywhere he goes.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. Is divorcing over this an overreaction?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

newme2017 said:


> He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. Is divorcing over this an overreaction?


In my opinion, yes because this points to a larger issue of overall respect. Not only is he disrespecting you, he's doing it in front of your mutual friends. Furthermore it leaves your marriage extremely vulnerable to cheating. 

But this is not about me or any of the other posters. This is about your definition of marriage and what you are willing to accept.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Who in the world voted no? Your husband must be on here.

I cannot believe anyone else would be so thick!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

newme2017 said:


> He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. Is divorcing over this an overreaction?


No. Divorcing because your husband is dating another woman is not an overreaction. Divorcing because your husband lacks appropriate boundaries for a married man is not an overreaction. Divorcing because your husband is grossly dismissive and disrespectful of your feelings is not an overreaction. Divorcing because you're having to "work around" "his personality type" to the point of making yourself unhappy and unhealthy is not an overreaction.

Here's a basic rule of thumb for relationships: If a relationship requires that you choose between maintaining your self-respect and keeping your partner happy, you need to pick _you_. Every. Single. Time. 

What is this situation doing for your self-respect? Do you feel good about this? How about having to work around his personality type (whatever in the hell that means)? Does that make you feel good about yourself? Or do you spend a lot of time trying to "fix" yourself so that he'll pick you, want to spend time with you, love you?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

He doesn't want you to come along because he's hiding something. I wonder what your H would say if you wanted to go out with some single guys?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

newme2017 said:


> He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. Is divorcing over this an overreaction?


Divorcing over this is the ONLY reaction. Dont bother with trying counseling or anything, just go file. Seriously. Not sure why you've been allowing this, but you can put a stop to it now by removing yourself.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Rowan said:


> OP, it sounds like you're afraid to have and maintain boundaries for some reason. By boundaries, I mean things that you will and will not tolerate in a relationship or from a partner. It sounds like you're very proud of having a relationship where you're not "limiting him in any way" so that he can do what he pleases. You like being the cool wife who's husband doesn't feel constricted by the relationship. I almost wonder if you're somehow afraid to stand up for yourself, or for some reason just think this is something you have to tolerate? In any case, if your husband was a great guy, your lack of boundaries might be just fine because it wouldn't occur to him to cross the reasonable lines of marriage even if you didn't insist.


This. I've been in your shoes. My husband got really intense about his workouts in a group setting and I found out he was bonding with another woman. They never texted or met outside of the class but I did find out that the woman had been meeting up with him most weekdays to workout with him. I didn't know until we were out one day and this woman ran up to my husband like he was her boyfriend. My husband did not make me feel welcomed to this class even though I do the workout too. I thought he just needed "his time" and I didn't want to be the "needy, insecure, controlling wife." I can tell you this has caused problems in our marriage. I fight every single day to overcome the resentment I feel about this and my own shame for going along with it because I wanted to be the "cool wife." 

Bottom line: you have every right to be with your husband wherever he goes, especially when it includes other women. And if you're not comfortable with it, he should not be there.

My husband told me that he didn't realize this was an issue for me, and he's sorry. He doesn't go to this class anymore because I told him that I'm no longer ok with it and it's not going to work for me. That was all that needed to be said, even though in his mind he would never do anything that he thought would jeaporidze our marriage. 

He doesn't have to agree with you. He just needs to stop doing it because it hurts you and you are his wife. Your feelings matter and he needs to show you basic care.


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## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

Call me Crazy but yes, I think a married man going out on more dates with his girl friend than his wife is a little out of bounds, but then again I think a married man going out on dates with anyone other than his wife is wrong.

What baffles me is how it is that you didn't put a stop to this a long time ago, as another poster said it is about respecting your marriage through the proper observance of boundaries and that is not being done on either side right now. you are not enforcing boundaries and thereby enabling his behavior and he is not respecting boundaries and walking all over you.

For me it would simply be a choice, if you are going to date other women than I am going to date other men, I'll let you know when the divorce papers show up so you can sign them and we can move on. 

Quite frankly I would make a point of making a date with a good looking single man and let him wine you and dine you every night that your husband goes out on his double date lets see if he is ok with the shoe on the other foot.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Before you jump to divorce, OP, what are your options? Are you a stay-at-home mom? Do you have financial means? Where will you go if you leave or will you stay and ask him to leave? If, upon telling him you want to leave him, he tells you he will stop going on these quarterly "dates" but will still remain in contact with said single ladies will you be willing to reconcile? Talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are before you take the leap. You may be entitled to spousal support. I don't know where you leave so...

He is really treating you with disrespect by making more effort on other women instead of the one he is in a committed relationship with. This female friend's unfriendly attitude towards you makes it more suspicious.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you're uncomfortable with what he's doing (and you certainly should be) tell him it's a deal-breaker -- assuming you're really willing to divorce him over it and not just threaten to. Then he can decide if he wants his marriage more than he wants to date.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I think I've been trying not to rock the boat because the last few years have been rough- but I'm in a place where I want to make it work cause I do love him but I'm not willing to sacrifice my happiness and self-respect anymore. Also this last outing where he obviously had such a good time he wanted sex has just sent this into a different orbit.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

newme2017 said:


> I think I've been trying not to rock the boat because the last few years have been rough- but I'm in a place where I want to make it work cause I do love him but I'm not willing to sacrifice my happiness and self-respect anymore. Also this last outing where he obviously had such a good time he wanted sex has just sent this into a different orbit.


Yet he obviously has no qualms about rocking the boat in your marriage by taking other women out to dinner and excluding you. I'm sorry you're going through this. I'd recommend sending him a short email or text letting him know that you love him and want your marriage to be great, but you're no longer going to accept him going anywhere with other women without including you. I'd tell him he hurt your feelings and you will no longer agree to live like this.

Then see what he does. He can call you jealous, insecure, etc., but don't try to reason with him. If he makes plans to do it again, be prepared to separate.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

Rowan said:


> OP, it sounds like you're afraid to have and maintain boundaries for some reason. By boundaries, I mean things that you will and will not tolerate in a relationship or from a partner. It sounds like you're very proud of having a relationship where you're not "limiting him in any way" so that he can do what he pleases. You like being the cool wife who's husband doesn't feel constricted by the relationship. I almost wonder if you're somehow afraid to stand up for yourself, or for some reason just think this is something you have to tolerate? In any case, if your husband was a great guy, your lack of boundaries might be just fine because it wouldn't occur to him to cross the reasonable lines of marriage even if you didn't insist. Unfortunately, it seems that your husband isn't that sort of man. He feels _so_ free that _he's not even willing to limit himself_ and is actively dating other women with your full knowledge. The fact that he knows you don't like it is apparently irrelevant to him. The fact that he's rubbing your nose in it, trying to manipulate you into thinking this is normal, and emotionally bullying you about your supposedly irrational jealousy, says nothing good about his character either.
> 
> There's a glaring lack of respect there. He doesn't respect you or your marriage enough to not date others, or to take your feelings into consideration. But you also don't respect yourself enough to say "no more" and really mean it. If you did, you would have at least separated, if not filed for divorce, immediately once it became clear that he doesn't respect you and doesn't really care how you feel.
> 
> ...


I know that it is not a sexual relationship- it is not a mistress relationship but I definitely think that this not wanting me there is coming from his friends more than from him. He told me they made fun of him after the few times I went with them, saying "what you're not allowed to go out by yourself". So yes my going is going to be awkward, but it's also his responsibility to not make it awkward for me- to be clear that he wants me to be there with him, not that I'm forcing him, and that's what it should be- if he truly doesn't want me to be there then that is a different problem. I wish that he would admit that it's his friends egging him on to not including me- and he should be man enough to say- my wife is my life and she's coming- if you don't like it we won't be doing these dinners anymore. They have other sport interests that they share that I don't, I don't mind them going to do those because it's a sport, this is a social gathering, this is for fun to spend time together, not to do something together, and that's the difference that bothers me about not being included. There is no credible reason for me not being able to go.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

newme2017 said:


> He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. Is divorcing over this an overreaction?


He doesn't need counseling, he needs to be single, because that's the life he wants to have. He wants you when convenient, but wants the single life. Even if he isn't doing much more than hanging out with these women, he still wants to be able to push you aside, and go off to pretend to be single for a little while. I'd say that divorcing him is not an overreaction. If he tries to make you feel ''crazy,'' who cares. He most likely is reacting because you're ruining his fun. Why do some people get married, I just don't know. No one would think anything bad if people want to stay single forever, but there are so many people who want the married life but also want to pretend they're single. And you're just supposed to be okay with it. lol Counseling won't fix that.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

EunuchMonk said:


> Before you jump to divorce, OP, what are your options? Are you a stay-at-home mom? Do you have financial means? Where will you go if you leave or will you stay and ask him to leave? If, upon telling him you want to leave him, he tells you he will stop going on these quarterly "dates" but will still remain in contact with said single ladies will you be willing to reconcile? Talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are before you take the leap. You may be entitled to spousal support. I don't know where you leave so...
> 
> He is really treating you with disrespect by making more effort on other women instead of the one he is in a committed relationship with. This female friend's unfriendly attitude towards you makes it more suspicious.


I am in a decent position to leave, I wouldn't need spousal support. The kids are always a big part of my decisions with my husband right now. I'd be willing to leave I'm not attached to our home. I don't expect him to not have contact with his friends, I just don't want these dates to continue without me being able to go, and I may not necessarily go to every one but I want to be able to say yes or no and I want him to want me to be with him on a nice night out to the city for a nice dinner and drinks. I don't think he's interested in these women, but I don't trust that they don't have an ulterior motive - especially if they are the driving force for my exclusion.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> Yet he obviously has no qualms about rocking the boat in your marriage by taking other women out to dinner and excluding you. I'm sorry you're going through this. I'd recommend sending him a short email or text letting him know that you love him and want your marriage to be great, but you're no longer going to accept him going anywhere with other women without including you. I'd tell him he hurt your feelings and you will no longer agree to live like this.
> 
> Then see what he does. He can call you jealous, insecure, etc., but don't try to reason with him. If he makes plans to do it again, be prepared to separate.


Ive been going nuts since they're last outing and I was going to wait til the next time they make plans to say anything, but I really need to talk to him about this now before any new outings come up and what you describe is kind of what I want to do, because it leaves it up to him to decide how to handle the next time they want to make plans, and I can say- I told you how I feel and you don't care how I feel so I'm done. It'll have been his decision to break us. I can't try to reason with him but I need to get this off my chest, I just don't want to have a huge fight when we're finally getting to a better place in everything else in our marriage, like I said this is the one thing- I can live with everything else. (I know that sounds bad, but there's compromise everywhere, but this is the thing I can't compromise on anymore)


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

newme2017 said:


> Ive been going nuts since they're last outing and I was going to wait til the next time they make plans to say anything, but I really need to talk to him about this now before any new outings come up and what you describe is kind of what I want to do, because it leaves it up to him to decide how to handle the next time they want to make plans, and I can say- I told you how I feel and you don't care how I feel so I'm done. It'll have been his decision to break us. I can't try to reason with him but I need to get this off my chest, I just don't want to have a huge fight when we're finally getting to a better place in everything else in our marriage, like I said this is the one thing- I can live with everything else. (I know that sounds bad, but there's compromise everywhere, but this is the thing I can't compromise on anymore)


You shouldn't have to compromise on this. I'd recommend sending it to him in writing so it doesn't get emotional and turn into a fight/defensive situation. It simply is what it is- these are your feelings and if he cares about you and his marriage, he will respect your boundaries whether he agrees or not.

There is a lot of strength in simply stating the obvious "This is not going to work for me."


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

newme2017 said:


> *I know that it is not a sexual relationship*- it is not a mistress relationship but *I definitely think that this not wanting me there is coming from his friends more than from him*. He told me they made fun of him after the few times I went with them, saying "what you're not allowed to go out by yourself". So yes my going is going to be awkward, but it's also his responsibility to not make it awkward for me- to be clear that he wants me to be there with him, not that I'm forcing him, and that's what it should be- if he truly doesn't want me to be there then that is a different problem. I wish that he would admit that it's his friends egging him on to not including me- and he should be man enough to say- my wife is my life and she's coming- if you don't like it we won't be doing these dinners anymore. They have other sport interests that they share that I don't, I don't mind them going to do those because it's a sport, this is a social gathering, this is for fun to spend time together, not to do something together, and that's the difference that bothers me about not being included. There is no credible reason for me not being able to go.



How do you *know*, _specifically_, that he's not having a sexual relationship with anyone else? Is it an assumption, or have you actually done some covert investigating to find out? And, no, I'm afraid asking him and having him assure you that "We're just friends!" does not count. 


I'm going to presume that your husband is an otherwise fully functioning grown man, yes? In that case, why on earth would he be somehow incapable of making his own choices, regardless of his friend's opinions? I know it's very tempting to blame his bad behavior on his friends. The problem with that is that your husband has free will, and as such, he can choose his own actions. The actions you're unhappy with are ones that _he is choosing_. He could have chosen to put his friends in their place immediately when they began to disrespect his wife. He did not. He could have chosen to stop associating with people who obviously don't respect his wife or his marriage. He did not. He could have chosen to stop these date nights that didn't include you when you told him it made you uncomfortable. He did not. He could choose to spend more time and effort with you and on dating you than with his friends and dating them. He did not. 

I think a major stumbling block here for you is going to be realizing that you already have your answer from your husband. He's telling you - through word and through deed - that you matter less than his opposite sex friend(s). You don't want to believe that because it's hurtful. But he's already told you who he is and what he wants. The only question now is whether or not you're okay with that. If you're not, it's up to you to choose something different for yourself. You are not helpless to choose what you're willing to tolerate, any more than he is helpless to stop going out on dates without his wife because his mean old friends might laugh at him.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Rowan said:


> How do you *know*, _specifically_, that he's not having a sexual relationship with anyone else? Is it an assumption, or have you actually done some covert investigating to find out? And, no, I'm afraid asking him and having him assure you that "We're just friends!" does not count.
> 
> 
> I'm going to presume that your husband is an otherwise fully functioning grown man, yes? In that case, why on earth would he be somehow incapable of making his own choices, regardless of his friend's opinions? I know it's very tempting to blame his bad behavior on his friends. The problem with that is that your husband has free will, and as such, he can choose his own actions. The actions you're unhappy with are ones that _he is choosing_. He could have chosen to put his friends in their place immediately when they began to disrespect his wife. He did not. He could have chosen to stop associating with people who obviously don't respect his wife or his marriage. He did not. He could have chosen to stop these date nights that didn't include you when you told him it made you uncomfortable. He did not. He could choose to spend more time and effort with you and on dating you than with his friends and dating them. He did not.
> ...


This is spot on. You're married to him, not his friends. How he treats you is what matters, and this is how he's treating you. This is on him.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your husband is going out on dates with someone other than you. That is unfaithfulness.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

newme2017 said:


> I know that it is not a sexual relationship- it is not a mistress relationship but I definitely think that this not wanting me there is coming from his friends more than from him.


The truth is that you have no idea what this relationship is. Since he puts this double date situation above his marriage, he cares more for the double date than he does for you and your marriage.

My guess is that your husband and one of these women are having an affair. His friend and the other woman are in an affair. It’s highly unlikely that there is no sex going on. But even if there was no sex, he is emotionally cheating.

Do you know when their next night out is planned?



newme2017 said:


> He told me they made fun of him after the few times I went with them, saying "what you're not allowed to go out by yourself". So yes my going is going to be awkward, but it's also his responsibility to not make it awkward for me- to be clear that he wants me to be there with him, not that I'm forcing him, and that's what it should be- if he truly doesn't want me to be there then that is a different problem. I wish that he would admit that it's his friends egging him on to not including me- and he should be man enough to say- my wife is my life and she's coming- if you don't like it we won't be doing these dinners anymore. They have other sport interests that they share that I don't, I don't mind them going to do those because it's a sport, this is a social gathering, this is for fun to spend time together, not to do something together, and that's the difference that bothers me about not being included. There is no credible reason for me not being able to go.


Your husband is not inviting you to go along because he does not want you along. After all no one invites their wife when they are out with their affair partner. What’s just silly to think that he would invite you to be in the middle of his affair. He’s cheating. You need to realize this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

newme2017 said:


> I am in a decent position to leave, I wouldn't need spousal support. The kids are always a big part of my decisions with my husband right now. I'd be willing to leave I'm not attached to our home. I don't expect him to not have contact with his friends, I just don't want these dates to continue without me being able to go, and I may not necessarily go to every one but I want to be able to say yes or no and I want him to want me to be with him on a nice night out to the city for a nice dinner and drinks. I don't think he's interested in these women, but I don't trust that they don't have an ulterior motive - especially if they are the driving force for my exclusion.


When is his next double date?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

newme2017 said:


> Ive been going nuts since they're last outing and I was going to wait til the next time they make plans to say anything, but I really need to talk to him about this now before any new outings come up and what you describe is kind of what I want to do, because it leaves it up to him to decide how to handle the next time they want to make plans, and I can say- I told you how I feel and you don't care how I feel so I'm done. It'll have been his decision to break us. I can't try to reason with him but I need to get this off my chest, I just don't want to have a huge fight when we're finally getting to a better place in everything else in our marriage, like I said this is the one thing- I can live with everything else. (I know that sounds bad, but there's compromise everywhere, but this is the thing I can't compromise on anymore)


What I suggest is that you say nothing and let the next double date happen. And you hire a PI to follow them and get photos and any other information they can for you.

Then, once you have that, don't say a thing to him until you have had time to process the information you get and make a plan for how to proceed.

The only 'evidence' you have is what your husband is telling you. He is most likely lying up a storm about what's going on.

I'm not sure why you think that his actions of not taking you along are being influenced by these friends. Surely he is a full grown man who makes his own decisions. He is 100% responsible for dating other women while married to you.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

I'm not sure what's worse, your husband never taking you out on a date except for your anniversary, your husband repeatedly going out with his friend & two women, completely disregarding your feelings AND calling you and telling you to be ready for sex when he gets home, OR the fact that you have allowed this absurdity to perpetuate for as long as it has or the fact that you need to get votes from strangers as to whether his behavior is inappropriate.

I think I need to make a poll.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> What I suggest is that you say nothing and let the next double date happen. And you hire a PI to follow them and get photos and any other information they can for you.
> 
> Then, once you have that, don't say a thing to him until you have had time to process the information you get and make a plan for how to proceed.
> 
> ...


I know this may be hard to wrap your thinking around, but EleGirl may be correct. The dates may only be the tip of the iceberg and are meant to throw you off the trail of what is really happening. It is entirely possible that your husband is involved in a full blown physical/sexual affair. There are several red flags pointing in that direction.

Does your husband appear to be showering outside of your home? Like he comes home freshly showered?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> Who in the world voted no?
> 
> I cannot believe anyone else would be so thick!


I voted no, along with two others (as of this writing, this could change).

Although I cannot speak for the others, as far as I'm concerned it's not about being thick.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

browser said:


> I voted no, along with two others (as of this writing, this could change).
> 
> Although I cannot speak for the others, as far as I'm concerned it's not about being thick.


I'm confused? You think it's ok for her husband to go on double dates and she is over reacting?


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I'm confused? You think it's ok for her husband to go on double dates and she is over reacting?


I think the question (in the poll) is so absurd it doesn't deserve a straight answer.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Wow. He's having sex with one of the woman? That's a stretch to come to that conclusion. They have a good sex life. They go out with other couples. She trusts him not to cheat. He has this one small group of friends (ex coworkers?) that he wants to hang with by himself just a few times a year. What is wrong with that? I have a group like that, in which I prefer to not have the wife there. It has a single woman, and I have absolutely no interest in her. And yes, my wife has accused me of cheating with her. It has been the topic of many fights.
> 
> Hiring a PI is tantamount to accusing him of cheating or having an affair. If he is not, that can be extremely destructive to the marriage. He cannot prove that he is not having any affair (BTDT), so this seems to be a witch hunt that he is guilt of cheating without any undisputed evidence.


I was married to a man with all of these things in our marriage:


Good sex life (daily)
we socialized with other couples.
WE even did things like dates together, while OP did not have this going on in their relationship.
I trusted him not to cheat. He even had female friends and I was ok with it because he was open about it and I even knew most of them.
Guess what? He was cheating the entire marriage. when he went out with 'friends' he was dating and having sex.

It's not a leap at all.

Her husband does not want to spend time alone with her. He prioritizes these double dates over her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Wow. He's having sex with one of the woman? That's a stretch to come to that conclusion. They have a good sex life. They go out with other couples. She trusts him not to cheat. He has this one small group of friends (ex coworkers?) that he wants to hang with by himself just a few times a year. What is wrong with that? I have a group like that, in which I prefer to not have the wife there. It has a single woman, and I have absolutely no interest in her. And yes, my wife has accused me of cheating with her. It has been the topic of many fights.



Wait a minute, you suggested that she get tested for STDs. So you also think that there is a good possibility that he is cheating.



blueinbr said:


> You need to get tested for HPV and other STDs.





blueinbr said:


> Hiring a PI is tantamount to accusing him of cheating or having an affair. If he is not, that can be extremely destructive to the marriage. He cannot prove that he is not having any affair (BTDT), so this seems to be a witch hunt that he is guilt of cheating without any undisputed evidence.
> 
> With that said, the arrangement makes the wife uncomfortable and therefore the focus should be on that. Perhaps MC together to discuss that issue. Does OP think husband is cheating or does she resent he will plan events for them but not her? It think it is the latter. She feels neglected and that should be addressed in MC, not hiring a PI.


He does not need to know that she hired a PI. I can prove whether he is having an affair or not.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

The important thing here is she is getting upset every time he has a play date or whatever he wants to call it.She is his wife the one he swore to forsake all others for and he doesn't give a damn about her feelings.The part about coming home wanting sex,have you heard the saying sloppy seconds,it doesn't just apply to women.He is sexually involved with all three of these people in my opinion.The other guys wife has learned to accept her husbands shenanigans and the op can either do likewise or hit him with a divorce.I find it very hard to believe she has accepted this behaviour for so long.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> I didn't say it wasn't a possibility. Just playing devil advocates here, based on my personal experience. My sex life is non existent unfortunately and yet I am not having sex with the single woman, nor do I want to.
> 
> He should be offered the same benefit of the doubt that we would offer someone caught with a person of opposite sex in a locked room, had a STD, and stonewalled on the discussion.
> 
> This has become an emotional discussion because of the wording "double date". Is it really dating? The husband has already been tried and found guilty.


If the guy with the wife who has an STD said that his wife is currently spending time with other men, I would also suggest that he get a PI to find out what's really going on. It is very hard to investigate today something that happened 15 or so years ago.

Is it really double dating? Maybe she needs to find out if it is a double date or not.

Further... this is getting to be a thread jack. You clearly have a problem with me. This thread is not the place to be taking it out on me. The thread jack ends now. We will simply have to agree to disagree.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I didn't say it wasn't a possibility. Just playing devil advocates here, based on my personal experience. My sex life is non existent unfortunately and yet I am not having sex with the single woman, nor do I want to.
> 
> He should be offered the same benefit of the doubt that we would offer someone caught with a person of opposite sex in a locked room, had a STD, and stonewalled on the discussion.
> 
> This has become an emotional discussion because of the wording "double date". Is it really dating? The husband has already been tried and found guilty.


He is guilty.Guilty of being a ****in ******* of the first order.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Even if I wasn't feeling neglected in my marriage, I still would not be ok with my husband going out with other single women and not including me.


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

newme2017 said:


> He has had such adverse reactions to me wanting to join them- I know this might be what does us in- I'm terrified but I also know I can't continue to "let" this happen. He has to know there are consequences to this continuing. He won't go to counseling so it's very difficult to make him see the other side- he just wants what he wants and what he thinks is always right. I do go to counseling and am working to make our marriage better but this is the one thing I can't let go , not sweat, or work around which is what I have to do for his personality type. This is the one thing that I may have to say I'm done - if he can't give me this. *Is divorcing over this an overreaction?*


NO! If he's not willing to go to therapy, I think it's time you start trying to make yourself better, not the marriage.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I were in a ethical monogamous marriage for most of our 44+ years of marriage. This is a good description up to 7 years ago. Why My Husband & I Sometimes Have Sex With Other People - mindbodygreen

My situation was a little different. I dated other women from time to time, not many, only about 7 in 44 years. My wife never got jealous and sometimes we played with others together. Mostly threesomes and wife swapping. Neither of us got jealous and we felt compersion as the article above describes. Our lifestyles are not everyone's cup of tea and I know that but it worked for us while all of our monogamous friends and siblings have long ago divorced. 

My wife and I also shared a girlfriend for 30 years. Which was safer for our marriage. If one of us was uncomfortable with was going on, we either changed it or ended it. Our marriage and each other always came first. Sex with a new person is always more exciting and those of us into poly relationships know it as NRE or new relationship excitement. It makes you want to spend more time with the new person and ignore your existing partner(s). Both of you need to be aware of it and also discuss rules. You should have veto power over other relationships your husband has. That is how we worked it. Read the article and see how you can have an ethical non monogamous marriage that is successful. It worked for us and it can work for you. Just curious as to if you date others also. We have know married couples where only the husband or the wife dates others. In the relationship before my wife, my girlfriend had sex with different guys but I stayed only with her since she was a sex demon and more than I could handle anyway. 

Our lifestyles are not for everyone. In fact they can be dangerous for most. I have seen more fail than work out. However, they can work out as out did as did the marriage of our girlfriend and a few of our married friends. You need to set ground rules and have veto power with no arguments or hard feelings. You want to avoid being his safety net. Some guys will view their marriage as a safety net, always there if they need it, meals, regular sex and a place to sleep. They lose sight of their marriage and their spouses feelings. I always made sure that my wife and girlfriend felt equally loved. We even each had our own bedroom to avoid the who is sleeping with who and for how long thing. We started the night with a threesome an then had one on one sex if they wanted it. The threesome was more just wild sex while the one on one sex was quality time with the focus on just each woman and making love. Cannot argue with success. Good luck an make your hubby understand that whether what you feel is not happening, you still are feeling the emotions as if it was going on. No matter how much we bury jealousy, it always seems to surface sooner of later. Jealousy is a manifestation of insecurity and fear of loss. I would never come home and tell my wife that my new girlfriend is much hotter than her, better in bed, smarter and has a better personality. I always told my wife that she was still better than everyone else and paid extra attention to her. I also tried not to take time away from her by planing my dates when my wife was going out with her friends anyway. Good luck.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I know that they go out all 4 together, now I don't know if there is any pairing off before or after but I've seen pictures of all four together while out so they do go to the same place together. I honestly do not think there is an affair, the one woman who I think would be most likely interested in him doesn't live close enough to us to make an affair possible. I honestly trust him on this, but I don't trust the motives of the others because I don't know who is pushing the just the four of us thing. 
they are probably not going to go out for another month or 2 however I can't keep thinking about this and not taking care of this now, I rather have him know that I need him to stop this now, before the next round of planning starts, so that he can go into it ready to let them know the new situation. I feel that if I wait until they start planning again it will make it an argument, I'm hoping that by dealing with it now will give him time to really process it and really think about how it impacts our marriage, rather than have a knee jerk reaction of "you're not going to tell me what to do". We are really at a point in our marriage where we either keep working at making things better or we go our separate ways, this is the only thing I'm asking for to make me commit to really let myself "fall" for him again. I have a wall up right now and this is one of the things that stops me from basically allowing myself to fall back in love with my husband, and I really, really want to fall back in love with him, but I can't let him hurt me with this again. I guess maybe this is exactly what I should tell him? and leave it up to him, do you want a wife you has fallen back in love with you or one who resents you and your friends?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I would not wait until the next double date.

I would talk to him today.

Let him make one more choice. You and the marriage or his "friends"

He can pay child support and alimony to help you and the kids, if he chooses his friends.

If he chooses you, he goes NC with his friends, gets tested for stds.

Then if he will not choose wisely, go see an attorney. Get D papers drafted. 

There is no reason for you to let him date others after you are married. That competition ended when you were a couple and engaged.

He can spend money on you and the family not on the fantasy life.

If you D, he can repay all the money spent on his A.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

*What you need to do is obvious to me. You need to talk to your husband and agree that he can date but it has to be in a way that does not ignore your feelings. My wife or girlfriend were always welcome to join in. Sometimes they did but most often they did not. Sometimes you just want a separate relationship for whatever reason.*

Uh, Vinny, I think that advice would only work for couples who agree to be polyamorous. No where did the OP state that she had any intention to live in a non-monogamous marriage.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

newme2017 said:


> I know that they go out all 4 together, now I don't know if there is any pairing off before or after but I've seen pictures of all four together while out so they do go to the same place together. I honestly do not think there is an affair, the one woman who I think would be most likely interested in him doesn't live close enough to us to make an affair possible. I honestly trust him on this, but I don't trust the motives of the others because I don't know who is pushing the just the four of us thing.
> they are probably not going to go out for another month or 2 however I can't keep thinking about this and not taking care of this now, I rather have him know that I need him to stop this now, before the next round of planning starts, so that he can go into it ready to let them know the new situation. I feel that if I wait until they start planning again it will make it an argument, I'm hoping that by dealing with it now will give him time to really process it and really think about how it impacts our marriage, rather than have a knee jerk reaction of "you're not going to tell me what to do". We are really at a point in our marriage where we either keep working at making things better or we go our separate ways, this is the only thing I'm asking for to make me commit to really let myself "fall" for him again. I have a wall up right now and this is one of the things that stops me from basically allowing myself to fall back in love with my husband, and I really, really want to fall back in love with him, but I can't let him hurt me with this again. I guess maybe this is exactly what I should tell him? and leave it up to him, do you want a wife you has fallen back in love with you or one who resents you and your friends?


Newme, don't take this the wrong way, but do you think part of the problem here may be your hesitancy to set firm boundaries? Even here you sound wish-washy. I'd leave all ambiguity out of it and *very clearly state your boundary. * As in:

I'd like us to have a good marriage and I'm willing to work on that with you, but I am no longer ok with you going out with other women while excluding me. If you'd prefer to act single, you can go out with whomever you want without inviting me, but you will not be able to be married to me. I will only accept a marriage based on mutual care- and you're hurting me.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> Newme, don't take this the wrong way, but do you think part of the problem here may be your hesitancy to set firm boundaries? Even here you sound wish-washy. I'd leave all ambiguity out of it and very clearly state your boundary. As in:
> 
> I'd like us to have a good marriage and I'm willing to work on that with you, but I am no longer ok with you going out with other women while excluding me. If you'd prefer to act single, you can go out with whomever you want without inviting me, but you will not be able to be married to me. I will only accept a marriage based on mutual care- *and I like myself too much to be treated in such a way*.


She has the power...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Omfg. I would have had D papers ready BEFORE the FIRST "double date". 

Time for the come to Jesus convo. You TELL him to make a choice, RIGHT NOW, you and your family OR the double dates. He CANNOT have both. No time to think about it, just choose and choose now.

A moments hesitation on his part, or trying to negotiate, put the papers on the table in front of him and leave.

WTF on what planet can he think this is ok???


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> To be more explicit... next time just show up and join them. Don't ask. It's your right. That is if you don't want to confront.
> 
> You might even bring a date if you want to make a point. And make it an available and good looking one. Your H won't get the point any other way.
> 
> ...


Or book the next table and turn up with a male date?

After all sauce, goose, gander and so forth... 

And then have the male date present him with a set of divorce papers.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'd just change the locks the next time he goes on a date. But that's just me.

When he brings the police around, I'd just say, "I'm sorry, officer, but my husband was on a date with two women, wouldn't let me come along, so I figured he'd be shaking up with them for the night."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Didn't make it very far into your post.

Are you a flat scruffy object that people step on going through front doors?

You seriously allow yourself to be with a man like this?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

@newme27 there's going to be an argument regardless. Count on that. Timing won't matter in the least. 

It's a big mistake to think your H is innocent in this. He's dating another woman right in front of you. With your blessing because you aren't giving him boundaries. 

It's also foolhardy to think he's being pushed by his friends. That's a cop out. He's an adult. He makes his own decisions. He's loving this. 

I wouldn't let him touch me with a ten foot pole after his dates. Or ever again without std tests. It's a mistake to think he hasn't gone physical with one of these women. Do you really think he's that upstanding? He's not. He's dating another woman!Doesn't matter if she lives thousands of miles away, they could easily get together on these dates.

I realize you want to discuss it with him now. But haven't you already discussed with him how you don't want him to do this? Why do you think it'll be different this time?

It's important to have some sort of proof his actions aren't honorable toward the marriage before you talk to him again. Then he can't lie or gaslight you.

But i think you truly don't want to find out. You are whitewashing this. And there's a ton of stuff you don't know, by your own admission. You should stop treating him like a fragile kid. He's a man and your husband. But your husband is dating another woman. If he's got the balls to do this right in front of you, I doubt He's some wallflower.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is pointless to try to negotiate with someone who thinks they are holding all the cards and who doesn't really care about how you feel. Having yet another discussion about something when he is clearly unwilling to take your feelings into account is also pointless. This is where so many people get hung up on not knowing what to do.

The next step, when someone disregards your feelings and especially when they disregard healthy boundaries, is to have consequences, which are clearly defined as being due to their lack of regard for your concerns. I'm not talking punishment. I'm talking natural consequences.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I think I am going to talk to him about it again but with more of an emphasis on the fact that this is not sustainable for our marriage. It's up to him to decide whether he wants to risk it or not.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

newme2017 said:


> I think I am going to talk to him about it again but with more of an emphasis on the fact that this is not sustainable for our marriage. It's up to him to decide whether he wants to risk it or not.


You'd better be ready to back this up, or he will never listen to another word you say. 

Let him know he is free to choose to go on these ridiculous "dates" but it is not something you are willing to tolerate within a marriage. So if he makes the choice to go, you make the choice to end it....tell him to stay gone because you will be done. Make sure you pack his crap and have it waiting for him outside for when he returns. (because he will, he doesnt believe you, remember...) Maybe even change the locks while he is gone. (people will tell you that you cant do this, but fck that, yes you can) Once he is out, dont contact him, leave any initiation up to him, and keep response to a minimum. The other approach you can take is to be gone when he gets home...pack your stuff and take it with you, making sure he sees you really are good and gone. Then dont contact him. File for divorce. (people will tell you not to leave the house, but sometimes you do what you gotta do) 

So make sure you are ready for this.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

newme2017 said:


> I think I am going to talk to him about it again but with more of an emphasis on the fact that this is not sustainable for our marriage. It's up to him to decide whether he wants to risk it or not.


It is better to be prepared so that if he decides to test you on this, you are ready. Get a book on divorce in your state. Read it and understand the probable outcome as well as your rights and responsibilities. You might also seek legal counsel in advance, once you have read the book and have a good idea of what you're looking at should he decide he'd rather not take your boundaries into account when living his life.

It will take a bit longer if you do this, but it could save you years of headache and pain down the road. If you're going to give him an ultimatum or do something drastic, be sure you are ready for the fall out. Hopefully he will realize that he's in trouble and will change his ways, but if he doesn't you are ready.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> You'd better be ready to back this up, or he will never listen to another word you say.
> 
> Let him know he is free to choose to go on these ridiculous "dates" but it is not something you are willing to tolerate within a marriage. So if he makes the choice to go, you make the choice to end it....tell him to stay gone because you will be done. Make sure you pack his crap and have it waiting for him outside for when he returns. (because he will, he doesnt believe you, remember...) Maybe even change the locks while he is gone. (people will tell you that you cant do this, but fck that, yes you can) Once he is out, dont contact him, leave any initiation up to him, and keep response to a minimum. The other approach you can take is to be gone when he gets home...pack your stuff and take it with you, making sure he sees you really are good and gone. Then dont contact him. File for divorce. (people will tell you not to leave the house, but sometimes you do what you gotta do)
> 
> So make sure you are ready for this.


This straight up!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> You'd better be ready to back this up, or he will never listen to another word you say.
> 
> Let him know he is free to choose to go on these ridiculous "dates" but it is not something you are willing to tolerate within a marriage. So if he makes the choice to go, you make the choice to end it....tell him to stay gone because you will be done. Make sure you pack his crap and have it waiting for him outside for when he returns. (because he will, he doesnt believe you, remember...) Maybe even change the locks while he is gone. (people will tell you that you cant do this, but fck that, yes you can) Once he is out, dont contact him, leave any initiation up to him, and keep response to a minimum. The other approach you can take is to be gone when he gets home...pack your stuff and take it with you, making sure he sees you really are good and gone. Then dont contact him. File for divorce. (people will tell you not to leave the house, but sometimes you do what you gotta do)
> 
> So make sure you are ready for this.


You can change the locks, but so can he. You can't legally bar a spouse from his residence.

I would phrase the issue a little differently. Yes, it's about him dating another woman, but it goes even deeper than that. Even if there is absolutely nothing going on, not even flirting, the deeper issue is that he does not seem to care about your discomfort. He doesn't have your back. Having each other's backs is a core principle of marriage. Everything else in the relationship should be based on this. He is willing to cause you pain simple because it suits him to do something that is hurtful to you. And it's not something that is weird or that you are overreacting about.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

CynthiaDe said:


> You can change the locks, but so can he. You can't legally bar a spouse from his residence.
> 
> I would phrase the issue a little differently. Yes, it's about him dating another woman, but it goes even deeper than that. Even if there is absolutely nothing going on, not even flirting, the deeper issue is that he does not seem to care about your discomfort. He doesn't have your back. Having each other's backs is a core principle of marriage. Everything else in the relationship should be based on this. He is willing to cause you pain simple because it suits him to do something that is hurtful to you. And it's not something that is weird or that you are overreacting about.


I think that's exactly what i need to say to him. At this time when we're trying to make things better, i need you to have my back, i need you to do this for me, i need you to show them and me that i am supposed to be by your side. And that even if you think it's not a big thing, it's a big thing to me and i need you to make it right for me. Making it right for me should be the priority over what your friends might want, and even what you might want with them at this time.

I honestly even think that if he lays off and does this for a while and we get back to normal that it wouldn't bother me so much- at least i hope so. it didn't use to bother me so much in the early days of our marriage, it was such a long time ago- i don't know if i just don't remember or they didn't go out as much or we were just really happy so it didn't register, but right now i physically can not function with this going on.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I think that's exactly what i need to say to him. At this time when we're trying to make things better, i need you to have my back, i need you to do this for me, i need you to show them and me that i am supposed to be by your side. And that even if you think it's not a big thing, it's a big thing to me and i need you to make it right for me. Making it right for me should be the priority over what your friends might want, and even what you might want with them at this time.

I honestly even think that if he lays off and does this for a while and we get back to normal that it wouldn't bother me so much- at least i hope so. it didn't use to bother me so much in the early days of our marriage, it was such a long time ago- i don't know if i just don't remember or they didn't go out as much or we were just really happy so it didn't register, but right now i physically can not function with this going on.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

newme2017 said:


> I think that's exactly what i need to say to him. At this time when we're trying to make things better, i need you to have my back, i need you to do this for me, i need you to show them and me that i am supposed to be by your side. And that even if you think it's not a big thing, it's a big thing to me and i need you to make it right for me. Making it right for me should be the priority over what your friends might want, and even what you might want with them at this time.
> 
> *I honestly even think that if he lays off and does this for a while and we get back to normal that it wouldn't bother me so much- at least i hope so.* it didn't use to bother me so much in the early days of our marriage, it was such a long time ago- i don't know if i just don't remember or they didn't go out as much or we were just really happy so it didn't register, but right now i physically can not function with this going on.


Reading this is so frustrating because I now understand why men claim they don't know what women want. I'd encourage you to reread this entire thread. Everyone here has told you that you need to raise the bar in your marriage- your husband is walking all over you and dating other women right in front of you because you don't know how to set boundaries. 

It bothers you period. It needs to stop. Not for a while until you feel good again- it needs to stop as long as he's married to you. 

Reading this makes me think that your husband doesn't know how serious this issue is for you because you don't know how serious it is to your marriage. For some reason, you're afraid to set healthy boundaries in your marriage.

And I really would not get into a discussion about how he "needs to have your back." All that's going to do is give him ways to prove to you he does, while still taking other women out to dinner without you. State the facts- you're dating other women while you're married to me. Not acceptable.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You really need to read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". The reason I say this I that you do not seem to understand what a person has the right to ask and expect in a marriage. Hopefully the books will give you some words to use in talking to your husband.

You also need to read a book or two about setting boundaries. In an earlier posts someone posted a good, strong boundary statement. You need to read and reread that post until you own those words and can use them.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

newme2017 said:


> I honestly even think that if he lays off and does this for a while and we get back to normal that it wouldn't bother me so much- at least i hope so. it didn't use to bother me so much in the early days of our marriage, it was such a long time ago- i don't know if i just don't remember or they didn't go out as much or we were just really happy so it didn't register, but right now i physically can not function with this going on.


NOPE. Your husband going out like this SHOULD upset you! Its NEVER OK! Stop rolling over and going belly up! GOOD LORD!!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

newme2017 said:


> I think that's exactly what i need to say to him. At this time when we're trying to make things better, i need you to have my back, i need you to do this for me, i need you to show them and me that i am supposed to be by your side. And that even if you think it's not a big thing, it's a big thing to me and i need you to make it right for me. Making it right for me should be the priority over what your friends might want, and even what you might want with them at this time.
> 
> I honestly even think that if he lays off and does this for a while and we get back to normal that it wouldn't bother me so much- at least i hope so. it didn't use to bother me so much in the early days of our marriage, it was such a long time ago- i don't know if i just don't remember or they didn't go out as much or we were just really happy so it didn't register, but right now i physically can not function with this going on.


Oh dear god, honey, NO. No discussion, no "you need to have my back"...you TELL him to knock this **** off NOW, or he'll be served.

That's IT.

Your husband has zero respect for you, your children and your marriage. ZERO. How can you allow this to go on? What sort of example is this for your children? These ridiculous dates are taking precious time and resources away from your family.


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## bilbo99 (Feb 16, 2011)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Calling ahead for you to get ready for sex is like calling Domino's to order a pizza. With the same expectations of delivery. 


He must have gotten hot and bothered by the 'date'. Gotta wonder what is said and done by and to him.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

newme2017 said:


> Also this last outing where he obviously had such a good time he wanted sex has just sent this into a different orbit.


Dear Lord.

So pig boy went out on yet another of his many dates and then came home looking for sex? Don't tell me you actually had sex with this POS?

Damn. That must be one hell of a **** sandwich he's been serving you since you're only too happy to keep eating it year after year after year after year after year after year......


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I don't want to give people the wrong impression. he's not telling me he's going out on a date and it's supposed to be romantic with them. But to me it "looks" like a double date, because it's 2 men and 2 women and they dress nicely and they go to a nice place and have drinks and dinner, so to me that's what i call it. He obviously doesn't call it that- he says he's getting together with his friends. It's the mix of people and the fact that they don't want me to go that is driving me nuts. To him it's just him going out with his friends and there's nothing wrong- to me and to anyone who might see them out i'm sure it looks like a double date.

Should i bring it up now ahead of the next time they may go out, or do i wait until it comes up again, keep working on our marriage and see if he's in a better place he may take what i'm saying differently now that we're working stuff out better. We haven't had a fight about this in about a year, so it'll have been a year since i brought up that this is an issue with me.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

Malaise said:


> Calling ahead for you to get ready for sex is like calling Domino's to order a pizza. With the same expectations of delivery.
> 
> 
> He must have gotten hot and bothered by the 'date'. Gotta wonder what is said and done by and to him.


Exactly- this makes me argue that obviously it's not just friends - or innocent, there's talk going on.


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## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

A couple comments:

What exactly is your preferred solution, that he not go or that you be allowed to go?

I find myself wondering, if you were allowed to go how uncomfortable would you be knowing that you aren't wanted there, which brings me to my next point.

Anybody that is toxic to your marriage should be out of contact and if they are pushing your husband to make you feel unwelcome at any outing with your husband than they are definitaly toxic to your marriage.


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

bankshot1993 said:


> A couple comments:
> 
> What exactly is your preferred solution, that he not go or that you be allowed to go?
> 
> ...


I don't want him to lose his friends. I don't have a problem with them being friends, he has other women friends that i have no issue with because i am always part of the mix. There's one woman in the mix that i think is the real issue, i think she may have had or has a thing for my husband. I would like to go, and i look at it this way- if they don't want me there, and aren't enjoying it because i'm there, they'll stop doing these dinners and then problem solved for me either way. Even though i know they probably don't want me there, if that's how they feel then i don't feel bad ruining it for them. Cause what they're doing is wrong if they don't respect me or my marriage. It's hard cause i really don't know who is the one really pushing the just the 4 of us thing, i really don't think it's coming from my husband, i think he's going along with them. Because this isn't an issue with any one else in our lives. I think 1 or 2 of them came up with this "just us" thing and he won't say she comes or we don't do this anymore. No skin off my nose if they don't go out anymore because of me. I'm not saying they can't be friends, i'm just saying you can't go out with my husband. Two very different things!


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## newme2017 (Mar 16, 2017)

I don't want him to lose his friends. I don't have a problem with them being friends, he has other women friends that i have no issue with because i am always part of the mix. There's one woman in the mix that i think is the real issue, i think she may have had or has a thing for my husband. I would like to go, and i look at it this way- if they don't want me there, and aren't enjoying it because i'm there, they'll stop doing these dinners and then problem solved for me either way. Even though i know they probably don't want me there, if that's how they feel then i don't feel bad ruining it for them. Cause what they're doing is wrong if they don't respect me or my marriage. It's hard cause i really don't know who is the one really pushing the just the 4 of us thing, i really don't think it's coming from my husband, i think he's going along with them. Because this isn't an issue with any one else in our lives. I think 1 or 2 of them came up with this "just us" thing and he won't say she comes or we don't do this anymore. No skin off my nose if they don't go out anymore because of me. I'm not saying they can't be friends, i'm just saying you can't go out with my husband. Two very different things!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If two married men go out with women other than their wives for meals and drinks then they are either having more than a platonic relationship or they are trying to give others the idea that something is going on.Either way your nose is being rubbed in it and your husband doesn't seem to care.He loves the idea of people thinking he has a side piece and your friends are probably wondering why you are putting up with it.When he messaged you to be ready for sex the other man and women must all have had a good laugh at you.Hit this on the head before it wears you down completely.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

I would just ring up some of my male friends and start hanging out with them. 

And start planning for a different relationship/life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

newme2017 said:


> I don't want him to lose his friends. I don't have a problem with them being friends, he has other women friends that i have no issue with because i am always part of the mix. There's one woman in the mix that i think is the real issue, i think she may have had or has a thing for my husband. I would like to go, and i look at it this way- if they don't want me there, and aren't enjoying it because i'm there, they'll stop doing these dinners and then problem solved for me either way. Even though i know they probably don't want me there, if that's how they feel then i don't feel bad ruining it for them. Cause what they're doing is wrong if they don't respect me or my marriage. It's hard cause i really don't know who is the one really pushing the just the 4 of us thing, i really don't think it's coming from my husband, i think he's going along with them. Because this isn't an issue with any one else in our lives. I think 1 or 2 of them came up with this "just us" thing and he won't say she comes or we don't do this anymore. No skin off my nose if they don't go out anymore because of me. I'm not saying they can't be friends, i'm just saying you can't go out with my husband. Two very different things!


"It's hard cause i really don't know who is the one really pushing the just the 4 of us thing, i really don't think it's coming from my husband, i think he's going along with them" - you are wrong. You husband has 100% responsibility here. None of those other people owe you anything. They do not even have to respect your marriage. It is your husband who married you. He is the one who made serious vows/promises to you. He is the one who is showing you huge disrespect.

Your entire point of view seems to be that your husband is a weak, pathetic person who is completely controlled by other people and thus not really responsible for his actions. And this attitude is why he gets away with treating you so poorly. You make excuses for him and you allow it. Basically y our self esteem is so low that that you make excuses for his bad behavior.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I don't want to give people the wrong impression. he's not telling me he's going out on a date and it's supposed to be romantic with them. But to me it "looks" like a double date, because it's 2 men and 2 women and they dress nicely and they go to a nice place and have drinks and dinner, so to me that's what i call it. He obviously doesn't call it that- he says he's getting together with his friends.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

It doesn't matter what HE calls it- what he's doing is "dating" when he takes other women out to dinner and doesn't want his wife around.

And the previous poster was right about toxic friends to your marriage- anyone who doesn't want you around shouldn't be hanging out w your husband.

Your husband sounds like he doesn't understand what it means to be married and treat his wife with extraordinary care and put her above all others. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jessica, you might want to put that quote of the OP in your second post with the


> tags around it. That way it won't look like you are really the OP under another name.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@newme2017


The fact that you've allowed your husband to do this, means that you have something wrong with you. 

You need to see a mental health professional.

Saying this bluntly so that you don't misunderstand.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> I don't want to give people the wrong impression. he's not telling me he's going out on a date and it's supposed to be romantic with them. But to me it "looks" like a double date, because it's 2 men and 2 women and they dress nicely and they go to a nice place and have drinks and dinner, so to me that's what i call it. He obviously doesn't call it that- he says he's getting together with his friends.


Tried to include this in my previous post but having trouble fixing it from my iphone. Sorry for the confusion!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think this whole date thing is a symptom of a larger problem. You don't feel that your husband treats you right and that he doesn't have your back. He doesn't take you out on dates. He doesn't hold your opinion as having as much value as his. I think this is what needs to be addressed. If you deal with that issue and start holding your husband to a standard of how you expect to be treated, the date thing will be resolved as part of the general boundary issue that is at the root of all this.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Uh I would be saying something, now before the next date is planned.

I would be livid if my H were to try and pull this on me,it would not come out pretty for him. You need to speak up and put a stop to this, is does not respect or care about your feelings to be going out with them, knowing how you feel about this. If you can't go neither can he period, who cares if they like it or not. Also are you 100 percent sure it is them and not him who don't want you there, he could be just saying that.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

newme2017 said:


> he's not telling me he's going out on a date and it's supposed to be romantic with them. But to me it "looks" like a double date, because it's 2 men and 2 women and they dress nicely and they go to a nice place and have drinks and dinner, so to me that's what i call it.


If it walks like a duck...


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