# Forever in limbo



## Guyinthewoods (Nov 19, 2011)

I am stuck in limbo and confused about what to do. We were best friends growing up and we've been together on and off for 11 years. I took 2 years off when I started university and dated some nice girls but always broke it off with them to see her. She never went on a single date her entire life but did have a few drunken one night stands at school.

A couple years after school we are living in Canada and I have a great job, new friends, and am fully supporting her graduate education. We still fight sometimes but then after the wedding things were good. 5 months into it and I slipped on an icy sidewalk and tore 4 tendons in my leg including my ACL. I became depressed as I was a very active person who played sports and went out but I stopped all of that because I could barely walk one block without stopping or falling over from the pain. She blamed me saying I am clumsy for slipping and lazy because I was slow at doing chores. I was mad at her for not supporting the healing process. I would lose my temper, threatening violence when she nagged me to do chores or would go out clubbing without me. I never hit her but I am a big guy and scared her to the point of almost calling the police several times.

After 2 years of this we decided to separate and discussed what the separation agreement would look like. She insisted I would be paying for about 15,000 of her student debt, most of which was from before we were even married. She then moved to another state for 4 months and had a few one night stands and one of the guys took her on a vacation to Vegas. She still talks to two of the guys and wants to stay friends with them. She also tells me that I am her first love and always wants me to be in her life. While she was gone I was able to relax and my leg healed. I tried dating but feel like I am cheating on her. We have been very honest through the whole separation. At the end of her trip I went and visited her and we had an amazing week together. 

We now live separately and are friends but still sleep together several times a week. She says she does not want to be married "right now" and only wants to be friends and refuses to tell anyone that we are having sex because of the separation agreement. Sometimes she talks about going on vacation with the other guys. She is at the peak of her beauty and looks absolutely stunning, loves to cook and please her man. She is a dream girl who is terrible at relationships.

My plan was to go ahead with the amicable separation for a couple months then tell her I want to get back together and try to fix the marriage. If she did not agree to go back into the marriage I think I should end it with her completely because I do not feel like an amicable separation will work because of her debt demands. She said the only way to win her back is to go ahead with the amicable divorce, taking her debt, and then try to date her again and start fresh. I am afraid this would make it more likely for her to see other guys but she has already slept with a few and constantly gets hit on when she is alone anyways. I think a fresh start would be best but if it didn't work out I might be completely screwed from the debt as I am still paying off my own smaller student loan.

Do you think I am legally responsible for her student debt? What can I do to win her back but not lose her as a friend?


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> We were best friends growing up and we've been together on and off for 11 years. I took 2 years off when I started university and dated some nice girls but always broke it off with them to see her. She never went on a single date her entire life but did have a few drunken one night stands at school.


So you had 11 years on. 2 years off. You both screwed around then you got married.



> A couple years after school we are living in Canada and I have a great job, new friends, and am fully supporting her graduate education.
> 
> We still fight sometimes but then* after the wedding *things were good. 5 months into it and I injured myself. [edited]
> 
> ...





> I never hit her but I am a big guy and scared her to the point of almost calling the police several times.


That is not a good relationship!



> After 2 years of this we decided to separate and discussed what the separation agreement would look like. She insisted I would be paying for about 15,000 of her student debt, most of which was from before we were even married.


Lawyer. now.



> She then moved to another state for 4 months and had a few one night stands and one of the guys took her on a vacation to Vegas.


She moved out to have sex with other men




> She still talks to two of the guys and wants to stay friends with them.


Right. Are you okay with this?



> She also tells me that I am her *first love *and always wants me to be in her life.


To pay her bills and do the chores perhaps? She wants out. You need to let her go.



> I tried dating but feel like I am cheating on her.


That is because you have a heart.




> We now live separately and are friends but still sleep together several times a week.


Bad idea. 



> She says she does not want to be married "right now" and only wants to be friends and refuses to tell anyone that we are having sex because of the separation agreement


Divorce her then. She has told you this is what SHE WANTS as long as you pay the debt.



> Sometimes she talks about going on vacation with the other guys.


Sex in Vegas then back to the guy who is going to pay her debts!



> She is at the peak of her beauty and looks absolutely stunning, loves to cook and please her man.


Which man would that be?




> She is a dream girl who is terrible at relationships.


She sounds like an expert at relationships! Keeping you on the hook. Screwing around. 



> completely because I do not feel like an amicable separation will work because of her debt demands.


Refuse to pay the debt. See what happens. 




> She said the only way to win her back is to go ahead with the amicable divorce, taking her debt, and then try to date her again and start fresh.


That is nice of her. Not.



> I am afraid this would make it more likely for her to see other guys but she has already slept with a few and constantly gets hit on when she is alone anyways.


How could it be worse. Exactly?



> I think a fresh start would be best but if it didn't work out I might be completely screwed from the debt as I am still paying off my own smaller student loan.
> 
> Do you think I am legally responsible for her student debt?


Get a lawyer



> What can I do to win her back but not lose her as a friend?


She hasn't treated you like a friend. She has treated you like dirt.

Get out man. Get out. You deserve more than this!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Look in the mirror and decide , do you want a cheap lay a few times a week with someone who give you sloppy seconds and pay her debt or do you want to be man who has chance of a life with a person who loves you .

Your wife does not love you and you are allowing her to toy with you

Some marriages after an affair can be recovered , from what you have written yours is not one of those .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That's not a cheap lay! It's costing him 15k!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow, so you are basically back to trying to net a date wth you own wife, and hope that one day she will stop dating other men and return to being monogamous?

You are setting yourself up for nothing but heartache. She has told you that she has no interest in being monogamous, that's what she meant by not being in a relationship.

Sorry lady, but married even when separated means you are in a relationship.

My advice here is to cut your losses and stop hoping she still has any love or respec for you. Her actions she she doesn't. No woman goes on a vacation to Vegas with a guy while she is married if she has any intention of being married. Cut your losses and move on to someone who isn't a selfish $&$&
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Also, these other guys aren't talking and chasing her if they aren't hooking up with her currently. So while you may have a FWB thing with her, he no doubt is also hooking up other days and nights of the week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Ouch! I feel your pain, take a look at my posts... I feel like my marriage is in the early stages of what you just described. I know exactly what you're going through, you have this extreme attachment/bond with her (love), especially growing up together, that you really can never share with another person (same with me but add 2 kids into the equation). You'll always love her and care about her, but I guess you have to ask yourself is it worth all the pain? It seems like you're making the same mistake as I am, trying to be the better person, trying to do whatever it takes to make her happy, trying to give her a chance, ... the problem is that girls don't respond to that. If anything you're rewarding her for her behavior. If I were in you're shoes, I would completely cut myself off from her. The worst has already happened, she's slept with many other men, still carries on relationships with them and is now stringing you along, no doubt b/c she cares for you and doesn't want to completely let go, but also b/c shes using you (and you're letting her). So stop being her crutch, be a man and let her go completely. Once she realizes you've had enough and you're done with her and you move on and live your life without her, it will begin to open her eyes and put things in perspective. Let her go, then let her be the one to come back to you. Stop letting her hold all the power in the relationship (I need to take my own advice no doubt)


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

She is just playing you trying to get you to pay her debt off and after that see you later. Protect yourself and pay half of the debt she encurred during the marriage only. Don't swallow 15K if you don't have to.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

You are going to be embarrassed when you wake up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Guyinthewoods (Nov 19, 2011)

She has been honest with me about the other guys and has not seen them since she moved back up here and we started sleeping together. She never cheated on me during the marriage but she thinks separation is a license to flirt with every single guy that looks at her now. She lets me read her text messages and knows I have her passwords. We were not even this close while we were married.

She claims that she likes me more after the separation. I think this is because we got married for different reasons, I did it to start a family and she seems to have done it for her parents (or money). RIGHT AFTER the marriage she told me for the first time that she never wants kids when I made it clear I wanted a family a few years down the road. Now miraculously she says she is considering starting a family. She does crazy stuff like this all the time but since she is "more educated" then me and says I am "clinically depressed" even though my therapist strongly disagrees that I am the one acting irrationally.

Ing - You are awesome man. I have threatened a lawyer then suddenly the dollar amount becomes negotiable again and she becomes very nice to me. I will bring it up again after the holidays I think.

Shaggy - Its tough man but you just gotta have confidence in yourself. I struggle with that sometimes but lately have been killing it at work so that gives me a big boost.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Don't threaten her with a lawyer.... go talk to one, find out what your options are. Find out what the laws are where you live when it comes to student loans. Knowledge is power. Just seeing an attorney doesn't mean divorce, it means you will at least make a knowledgable decision when the time comes.

Seems like she likes you more when she doesn't feel married to you. Ick. THAT doesn't sound like family-making possibilities! 

Get out now, before it gets too complicated.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> She has been honest with me about the other guys and has not seen them since she moved back up here and we started sleeping together. She never cheated on me during the marriage but she thinks separation is a license to flirt with every single guy that looks at her now. She lets me read her text messages and knows I have her passwords. We were not even this close while we were married.


Does it feel like remorse to you? I mean opposed to guilt?
Separation is very handy. It allows a free pass. I would establish that any future separation would be a prelude to divorce.



> She claims that she likes me more after the separation. I think this is because we got married for different reasons, I did it to start a family and she seems to have done it for her parents (or money).


Do have a chat to a lawyer. It will not cost that much. For the sake of any future you are going to need to sort it out. 
In negotiation. I would start with.. "When Hell freezes over"




> RIGHT AFTER the marriage she told me for the first time that she never wants kids when I made it clear I wanted a family a few years down the road. Now miraculously she says she is considering starting a family. She does crazy stuff like this all the time but since she is "more educated" then me and says I am "clinically depressed" even though my therapist strongly disagrees that I am the one acting irrationally.


I suspect this is to do with the affairs. Forget the "clinically depressed" . Get in control of the situation. Your therapist sees nothing wrong with you. MAN UP! Read the threads and the reasons why. 



> Ing - You are awesome man. I have threatened a lawyer then suddenly the dollar amount becomes negotiable again and she becomes very nice to me. I will bring it up again after the holidays I think.


Aw shucks. Do it Today. Take control.



> Shaggy - Its tough man but you just gotta have confidence in yourself. I struggle with that sometimes but lately have been killing it at work so that gives me a big boost.


Shaggy has nails for breakfast. I am sure he will send you the recipe 

ACT on what you say. DO what you say you will
DO NOT allow her to gaslight you into believing there is something wrong with you. . That is really important. 
You MUST get in control of your life.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Follow everyone's advice on the lawyer. She's in no way, shape or form ready for R. 

She's still got you on the hook because she's manipulating you with sex. Come on. Think with your larger head. She's been with a lot of different guys by the looks of it. You better get yourself screened for STDs while you're at it. After you tell her that you aren't paying one cent of her debt, see how much sex you'll get and see how nasty she'll become.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

ing said:


> How could it be worse. Exactly?


He could find out she's given him an STD after he's finished paying 15k in student loans.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Guyinthewoods said:


> Shaggy - Its tough man but you just gotta have confidence in yourself. I struggle with that sometimes but lately have been killing it at work so that gives me a big boost.


It's not just about confidence. It's very much about not accepting others treating you with disrespect or as a second choice.

Your wife is a cheater. She is now asking you to compete with other men for her affection. She continues to seek out connections with them, while you have your shot at her.

There are women out there who would be actually working on their marriage. Women who would be pursuing their husbands.

you're accepting letting her dictate to you the terms she will temporally be faithful. 

Is that the sign of a man with confidence and self worth? Why would a woman want a man who would accept such terms?


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## Wolfgar (Nov 15, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> It's not just about confidence. It's very much about not accepting others treating you with disrespect or as a second choice.
> 
> Your wife is a cheater. She is now asking you to compete with other men for her affection. She continues to seek out connections with them, while you have your shot at her.
> 
> ...


Great advice Shaggy. I have just now realized this and I wish I would have been a stronger person in the beginning...but emotions took control of me. Originally when I first found out I did whatever I could to wake her up and make her realize what she had done. I rationalized why she did it, I felt it was partly my fault, I was immediately ready to forgive her. I made every effort to change myself and show her we could be happy together, I told her all I wanted was my wife back and I'd be willing to do whatever it took (how sad does that sound). But after 2 weeks of trying to win her heart back with zero luck, my "fog" is starting to clear and my manhood is starting to come back. She cheated, she f'd up, and I was the one trying to fix things? She even told me subconsciously she did what she did so I would leave her and be done. It's a difficult thing to get ones emotions in check and think with your brain when dealing with betrayal. And in reality humans are just animals, women are hardwired to want a dominate alpha male...not a male that's begging and pleading with her to change and work on things. Now how does a male display those alpha male characteristics after being cheated on, that's another topic (feel free to start it shaggy)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Seangar - your fog is lifting!

Hit the mens section and manning up material. Check out "No more mr. nice guy"


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