# Wife tells me that I do not do enough...



## step_raising

So I've been married about 6 years, I'm raising my wife's 3 kids. Their Dad hasn't paid child support for over two years. I work 9-10 hours a day at a full-time job and come home and try to run several side businesses so that I don't have to get a part-time job. With all of the regular kid issues and some more serious ones since they are dealing with their parents divorce, moving, etc in their own ways. I'm about taxed to death. She works hard as well but is always complaining to me that I do not do enough around the house, that I don't do enough for the family, that she wishes that I was different in many ways that bother her. I've tried to take her out more, but it always seems to digress into what I'm not doing enough of.

I'm so frustrated, I don't know what to do anymore... I watch my other guy friends and I don't see them having the same issues with their wives.

Help guys.... what are your wives like or what can I do? Besides finding a job in another country... :scratchhead:


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## Entropy3000

So presumably you are working multiple jobs to support the family. She brings in income as well?


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## chillymorn

get out tell her to raise her own kids!


you will regret stay with someone who dosn't respect your efforts to suport her and her kids.


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## justwhy

Weekly date nite, tell her she looks nice in the mornings, Cook her breakfast in bed on Sundays, take the kids to the park or walk for an hour on Saturday. It's the little things that she wants. I love when my husband steals the neighbor's rose and bring it to me when he comes from work.


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## AFEH

justwhy said:


> Weekly date nite, tell her she looks nice in the mornings, Cook her breakfast in bed on Sundays, take the kids to the park or walk for an hour on Saturday. It's the little things that she wants. I love when my husband steals the neighbor's rose and bring it to me when he comes from work.


Yeh right. Forget about and ignore the flipping great big things like helping her raise HER three children!

And when she moans about it give her rewards like date nights ….


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## AFEH

step_raising said:


> So I've been married about 6 years, I'm raising my wife's 3 kids. Their Dad hasn't paid child support for over two years. I work 9-10 hours a day at a full-time job and come home and try to run several side businesses so that I don't have to get a part-time job. With all of the regular kid issues and some more serious ones since they are dealing with their parents divorce, moving, etc in their own ways. I'm about taxed to death. She works hard as well but is always complaining to me that I do not do enough around the house, that I don't do enough for the family, that she wishes that I was different in many ways that bother her. I've tried to take her out more, but it always seems to digress into what I'm not doing enough of.
> 
> I'm so frustrated, I don't know what to do anymore... I watch my other guy friends and I don't see them having the same issues with their wives.
> 
> Help guys.... what are your wives like or what can I do? Besides finding a job in another country... :scratchhead:


Why not get out? She sounds like she’s going to leave you anyway as she has absolutely no appreciation of what you do for her or her children.

Cut your losses and just get out.

There will be reasons why you haven’t done that. Look to those reasons to see why you are still there putting up with such an ungrateful woman.


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## justwhy

AFEH said:


> Yeh right. Forget about and ignore the flipping great big things like helping her raise HER three children!
> 
> And when she moans about it give her rewards like date nights ….



they're at a rough patch in their marriage and the answer is not to walk out. She's communicating the issue and now as a couple they must work on it. And yes a date nite will reward both of them because both of them are overwhelmed with work and the kids. :scratchhead:


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## Toffer

"they're at a rough patch in their marriage and the answer is not to walk out. She's communicating the issue and now as a couple they must work on it. And yes a date nite will reward both of them because both of them are overwhelmed with work and the kids"

Not buying it either.

Unless she's working longer hours than he is AND he's raising her 3 kids, why does SHE need to be pampered and rewarded? Again, whenever there are issues in a marriage everyone ASSUMES the man isn't doing enough!

Step, you and your wife could also sit down and write up a list of chores and who will be responsible for what. You'll need to balance this list by addressing how much each of you works outside the home.

Lastly, a slight warning. This is an early sign of a marriage going south. Seek marriage counseling. She's got some issues with you


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## AFEH

justwhy said:


> they're at a rough patch in their marriage and the answer is not to walk out. She's communicating the issue and now as a couple they must work on it. And yes a date nite will reward both of them because both of them are overwhelmed with work and the kids. :scratchhead:


Maybe instead of meching and moaning about what he does or doesn’t do SHE were to take HIM on date nights to say thank you and express HER APPRECIATION FOR WHAT HE DOES DO ….


Things might be different.


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## justwhy

AFEH said:


> Maybe instead of meching and moaning about what he does or doesn’t do SHE were to take HIM on date nights to say thank you and express HER APPRECIATION FOR WHAT HE DOES DO ….
> 
> 
> Things might be different.


I think them having weekly date nite will calm things down and they can reconnect and enjoy they marriage more. At this point> no more finger pointing because it's a marriage and if both want it they both have to make sacrifices.


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## Conrad

step_raising said:


> So I've been married about 6 years, I'm raising my wife's 3 kids. Their Dad hasn't paid child support for over two years. I work 9-10 hours a day at a full-time job and come home and try to run several side businesses so that I don't have to get a part-time job. With all of the regular kid issues and some more serious ones since they are dealing with their parents divorce, moving, etc in their own ways. I'm about taxed to death. She works hard as well but is always complaining to me that I do not do enough around the house, that I don't do enough for the family, that she wishes that I was different in many ways that bother her. I've tried to take her out more, but it always seems to digress into what I'm not doing enough of.
> 
> I'm so frustrated, I don't know what to do anymore... I watch my other guy friends and I don't see them having the same issues with their wives.
> 
> Help guys.... what are your wives like or what can I do? Besides finding a job in another country... :scratchhead:


Are you responsible for her happiness?

Or is she?


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## River1977

Step_Raising, you and others here place way too much emphasis on you being a step parent. You seem to think that because she has children and you contribute financially, then you get to have a pass on being responsible for anything else, but you don't. You married a woman with children. That fact came as no surprise to you, and you took it on. You don't get to expect her to be so GRATEFUL that you get away with anything at all. Had you not expected her utter gratitude, you would not have mentioned her having children and their father not paying child support as if you are supposed to be her god. You are still supposed to be responsible for being her husband, for the home, and for the household. You came here and made sure people confirmed you exactly as they did - exactly what you wanted to hear. 

Others also seemed to skip your slight mention of her also working hard like you wanted them to miss it and peppered your post with all your glory. Had you been fair in your post, the responses would have been very different, telling you what they always say when a wife complains of such things. If she says you are not doing enough around the house, then you are not doing enough around the house. That she has children does not give you a pass on any of your own responsibilities. What does it matter if you do other jobs if your own sinks are leaking and doors falling off the hinges or you leave messes everywhere? Stop ignoring her and try to work out the things that are needed on your part.

And do get marriage counseling. There are many therapists who specialize in step family dynamics. If the children are having issues, which is normal, then make sure she gets counseling for them as well. Making sure people tell you what you want to hear is not going to help matters one bit. You need to make a REAL effort at solving your problems, rather than ignoring your wife and skewing the facts. Stop thinking you are doing so much and doing her such a huge favor. Stop thinking she is supposed to lick your dirty feet just because you married her. She could have done better than you, just like you seem to think she is not good enough or not worthy of your effort just because she has kids. Good for her for not putting up with your crap. 

If you want some real suggestions and honest answers, then try posting with some honesty and tell us what she complains about. Tell us what it is you DO NOT do that makes her so unhappy, instead of making yourself seem like you are supposed to be her gift from God but no one gave her the message.


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## sinnister

justwhy said:


> Weekly date nite, tell her she looks nice in the mornings, Cook her breakfast in bed on Sundays, take the kids to the park or walk for an hour on Saturday. It's the little things that she wants. I love when my husband steals the neighbor's rose and bring it to me when he comes from work.



I'm going to be honest with you. After working a 10 hour shift than coming home to work on "several" side buisnesses there is not way in hell this guy will be able to do all of that.

Maybe SHE can cook HIM breakfast in bed on Sundays? Take her own kids to the park for an hour on Saturday?


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## sinnister

River1977; it's not in a mans genetic makeup to care for another mans kids. You sort of have to adjust to it..and even then to receive no gratitude for his efforts is a little much.


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## Jeff/BC

Step_raising: In general, when I hear "you're not doing enough" I generally figure it's a coin of the realm problem. That is to say, "YOU think you're paying into the pot in rich coinage. SHE on the other hand, isn't valuing whatever it is your contributing as highly as you do."

The general rule in our marriage is that the recipient gets to value the coins, not the giver. So in our house, I'd be asking about the value of the things I do give (not with the intent to argue, but rather with the intent to educate myself) then I'd be asking about the higher value things she wished I gave. Then I'd be sitting down with her to work out a team-based plan that will effectively allow me to give those things.

Whether or not SHE is paying up in an appropriate coin of the realm for you is an entirely separate conversation. I try not to deal with them at the same time because down that path is the insanity of "fairness".


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## step_raising

Thanks everyone! It's great to hear different approaches and feelings from both sides...

River - you are right, before marriage I was very worried about how handling the kids would work out. I didn't realize how much work everything would be trying to make everyone happy - including Ex-Husbands... she does deserve better.

You'd think that a 17 year old could help around the house... or at least clean up after himself. So right now, I'm rushing home - mow the lawn for 2 hours, work on emails and customer issues for an hour or two, then I need to remember to find a rose somewhere and get the dishes in the dishwasher so they don't stink, change the oil and fix the car that get's hundreds of miles driving the kids to meet up with their Dad that doesn't pay child support, go to all the school meetings and performances, go out to movies and dinner so everyone is happy, paint the house, fix the leaky roof, take care of fertilizer and weeds, then vacum the house, feed the kids, make the beds... I'm exhausted... I've given up shooting guns, camping, wheeling, motorcycle riding, pretty much everything I used to do. I'm not sure what else I can do - other than just say 'yes mamm!' (thanks to Al Bundy... one of my favorite quotes!)


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## turnera

The first thing I would do is get a poster board and both of you sit down this weekend and write out everything that has to be done in that house - cleaning (rooms, laundry, etc.), maintenance (lawn, broken door knobs, etc.), kid stuff (homework, baths, reading to them, etc.), personal stuff (haircuts, reading a book, etc.). Assign time to each in 15-minute increments.

Once you have that done, since you both work, take turns highlighting in 'your' color what you will be responsible for. Be fair about the time; if you pick lawn mowing and it takes 30 minutes, she should then pick 2 15-minute tasks. And be fair about the things that no one wants to do; if you pick one thing no one else wants to do, then she should next pick one thing that no one else wants to do. If you seriously do these side jobs and spend legitimate time on them, include them in the chores - but be fair about it; if you just say 'my other jobs take up 20 hours a week so I can't do any of the chores,' she will continue to be resentful and you'll get nowhere.

Keep going until everything is accounted for. If the kids are 5 years or older, include them in picking tasks.

Once you have the whole poster highlighted in your respective colors, make a vow to each other (and the kids) to stay responsible for what you signed up for. This will show her you aim to be fair and not skip out, so she will have less to gripe about.


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## turnera

If there's a 17 year old, he/she had better damn well be doing chores! You need to put your foot down about that; you are doing that kid no favors by not requiring chores. No chores = no phone.


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## turnera

Also, have you read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. from Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach It's a great book about how to give to the marriage but also keep time for yourself, so you don't become the family's gopher. (I'm talking about you, not your wife)


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## River1977

sinnister said:


> River1977; it's not in a mans genetic makeup to care for another mans kids. You sort of have to adjust to it..and even then to receive no gratitude for his efforts is a little much.


Post like yours was my whole point. 

1. You don't have any idea if he receives gratitude or not. You and all the others just assumed everything he wanted you to assume. 

2. You have no idea what he does or does not do. He made himself seem like he does so much. He wanted sympathy and everyone to agree with him, which is exactly what you and everyone keeps doing.

3. No one has any idea what she does for him - if she makes him breakfast in bed or takes her own kids to the park or does anything for him at all. You just IMAGINED that she does NOTHING for him. You all just keep on IMAGINING the circumstances just from what he stated when it is more than obvious he left out their entire lives.

4. I don't care about you saying it's not genetic makeup and it takes getting used to and blah, blah, blah. He was with her for some time before they married and knew she had children. They didn't meet and marry in the same day.


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## In_The_Wind

He did sign up for it as i am sure he knew she had 3 kids already I feel he is doing plenty for the family although he is certainly doing more than their donor father


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## River1977

step_raising said:


> Thanks everyone! It's great to hear different approaches and feelings from both sides...
> 
> River - you are right, before marriage I was very worried about how handling the kids would work out. I didn't realize how much work everything would be trying to make everyone happy - including Ex-Husbands... she does deserve better.
> 
> You'd think that a 17 year old could help around the house... or at least clean up after himself. So right now, I'm rushing home - mow the lawn for 2 hours, work on emails and customer issues for an hour or two, then I need to remember to find a rose somewhere and get the dishes in the dishwasher so they don't stink, change the oil and fix the car that get's hundreds of miles driving the kids to meet up with their Dad that doesn't pay child support, go to all the school meetings and performances, go out to movies and dinner so everyone is happy, paint the house, fix the leaky roof, take care of fertilizer and weeds, then vacum the house, feed the kids, make the beds... I'm exhausted... I've given up shooting guns, camping, wheeling, motorcycle riding, pretty much everything I used to do. I'm not sure what else I can do - other than just say 'yes mamm!' (thanks to Al Bundy... one of my favorite quotes!)


Yeah right. You are still fooling yourself and still trying very hard to fool everyone else. I am not one of them. Sorry.


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## Entropy3000

I never saw whether or not he was the soul bread winner. It matters. A lot as to how the family work load is divided fairly. 

Otherwise he is just being a nice guy doormat. Maybe the wife can step up on the financial area and he can stop trying to run businesses at night.

The fact he is providing for these children is significant.


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## sinnister

True. You're right there are always 2 sides to every story...but I can only comment on the side I see...which happens to be his.

And lets deal with reality instead of what's PC. If a man is raising another mans kids, with no emotional or financial contribution from the birth father coupled with already being exhausted from work, there will be some resent and some venting.

Sure he knew the score, but I'm getting a sense that things would not bother OP as much if he wasn't being made to feel inadequate with what he actually does do.


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## sinnister

River1977 said:


> Yeah right. You are still fooling yourself and still trying very hard to fool everyone else. I am not one of them. Sorry.


Ummm am I missing something here River1977?

What's with the attacks?


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## River1977

Calling him out on how utterly disingenuous he is being is not attack. If nothing else, his last post should have shown you what I'm talking about, but you keep on defending him.....and agreeing with him.


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## step_raising

Entropy3000 said:


> I never saw whether or not he was the soul bread winner. It matters. A lot as to how the family work load is divided fairly.
> 
> Otherwise he is just being a nice guy doormat. Maybe the wife can step up on the financial area and he can stop trying to run businesses at night.
> 
> The fact he is providing for these children is significant.


She brings in about 1/3 of our income and that is one of our side businesses.


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## justwhy

Entropy3000 said:


> I never saw whether or not he was the soul bread winner. It matters. A lot as to how the family work load is divided fairly.
> 
> Otherwise he is just being a nice guy doormat. Maybe the wife can step up on the financial area and he can stop trying to run businesses at night.
> 
> The fact he is providing for these children is significant.


She works hard as well according to him.

So the father is involved with the kids but don't pay child support?


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## justwhy

the problem as i see is > the wife complained to him about her needs now he complaining on the board. Let him VENT!!!


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## Entropy3000

justwhy said:


> *She works hard as well according to him.*
> 
> So the father is involved with the kids but don't pay child support?


He never addressed the question. Saying she works hard is rather ambiguous. Is she bringing in her share of the income is what I am really asking.

He is not saying. Do they bring home about the same amount? Do they work similar hours? Does one have a job that is more demanding then the other. 

We are talking about breaking down "chores". Then one should break down all of it, including the work.


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## Hope1964

1/3 income means nothing - how much time does this take her?

If my husband had the attitude that because our kids are not biologically his he's doing me a favor being around, well, he wouldn't be around. 

WE have 3 kids, not ME. They are OURS. Whether you knew going into it how much it would involve or not is totally irrelevant. How many new dads who have a new baby knew going into it what it would involve?? How many moms do?? The fact that the sperm that penetrated the eggs that made those kids isn't yours should NOT factor into your thinking anywhere. If it does you're being selfish.


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## step_raising

turnera said:


> Also, have you read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. from Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach It's a great book about how to give to the marriage but also keep time for yourself, so you don't become the family's gopher. (I'm talking about you, not your wife)


I bought the book! Thanks! I'll see if I can kindle it tonight... I appreciate that!


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## Entropy3000

step_raising said:


> She brings in about 1/3 of our income and that is one of our side businesses.


Ok cool. I am not saying you should complain but you could ask her to step that up. 

The bottomline is that these "kids" need to pull their own weight in an age appropriate way. A 17 year old is anout ready to go into the world. I am assuming they go to school now and work.


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## Toffer

OP,

So how many hours a day does she actually work at the side business?

Is this one of the side businesses you set up?

Not to be too critical but a number of the duties you listed earlier are not every day occurences (cutting the lawn, car maint., fertilize)


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## Hope1964

And what does it matter whether the biological father pays child support??


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## Toffer

River1977 said:


> Calling him out on how utterly disingenuous he is being is not attack. If nothing else, his last post should have shown you what I'm talking about, but you keep on defending him.....and agreeing with him.


River,

Talk about assuming! You seem to be in a pretty foull mood today. What's your beef?


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## turnera

step_raising said:


> I bought the book! Thanks! I'll see if I can kindle it tonight... I appreciate that!


I bought it, thinking I would read it and teach my husband how to treat me better, lol, but I ended up learning that men have to, deserve to, have time of their own, in order to be happy in the marriage. Many men don't just 'sink' into the marriage and give up thought of still having fun, like many women do. So it's best for both of you to understand what both of you need out of the marriage, and approach that target together.

Please consider the posterboard. It really works.


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## turnera

I'd like to know how many hours she works, too.


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## sinnister

River1977 said:


> Calling him out on how utterly disingenuous he is being is not attack. If nothing else, his last post should have shown you what I'm talking about, but you keep on defending him.....and agreeing with him.


Not really defending him per se...more like sympathizing with his situation and allowing him to vent.

I don't know why you're calling him out on him being disingenuous, but clearly he struck a nerve with you.


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## step_raising

turnera said:


> I'd like to know how many hours she works, too.


She does work a lot of hours... but usually has 4-5 hours during the day that's open for her to catch up or whatever... I don't always know what she's doing. I don't micro manage.

For me that's not the issue, I never tell her to "work more" or "work harder" or "______" fill in the blank. Seriously if the dishes don't get done, no dinner, dirty house, we can get it done later. I'm not against wearing clothes 2 times... In fact, I tell her to come up with a budget and then schedule her time to match the budget...

What bothers me - is that she has told me many times now that "I do not do ENOUGH" I believe that is an insult to me and it is a bar that is being placed where I don't know how to obtain. At this point I've tried the little things she's mentioned over the past years - like I never leave our bedroom without making the bed. That was one of the things from several years ago that she said would make her happy... I'm so angry now, that I can't even talk to her.


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## sinnister

justwhy said:


> the problem as i see is > the wife complained to him about her needs now he complaining on the board. Let him VENT!!!


I agree. This is all I see it is. Dude is clearly tired and came to vent.

There's nothing wrong with venting.


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## step_raising

I didn't mean to cause a furry... I am thankful for eveyone's comments... I'll just have to be patient, I've made a commitment, I'm going to keep.


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## Acorn

I think this has a lot less to do with chores and a lot more to do with disrespect.

If OP can look himself in the eye in the mirror and thinks he is doing a fair amount of work, he deserves the respect of his wife.

If OP can't, he needs to step it up.

Just my .02.


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## Hope1964

step_raising said:


> I didn't mean to cause a furry... I am thankful for eveyone's comments... I'll just have to be patient, I've made a commitment, I'm going to keep.


You sound just like my husband did a couple years before he cheated.

Don't let the resentment keep building. Talk to her. Explain calmly what your problem is. Tell her you need to work WITH her, not against her. Examine yourself closely. How do you really feel about raising these kids who technically are not 'yours'? Do you resent it? Does that maybe peek through once in a while for her to see?

The chore chart thing is a really good idea. If you present that to her and she balks, then keep trying. I also agree that the date nights and bringing her flowers for no reason could go a long way.

Have you read the book The 5 Love Languages? Perhaps the two of you need to start speaking each others love language.


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## step_raising

I don't want to cheat... but it would be nice to feel like a Man again.


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## Toffer

Do the chore chart!

tell your wife "Honey, I know you feel that I don't do enough around the house to help you out and that's a concern to me. I did a little reading about this and came across this idea of doing a chore chart to help sort this out" Then explain the process that was laid out earlier by another poster.

Then do it and stick to it!


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## Hope1964

step_raising said:


> I don't want to cheat... but it would be nice to feel like a Man again.


OMG. you DO sound like my hubby.

DO NOT go there. 

Here's what my husband wrote to me in a letter I keep in my purse.

_"If I could go back in time to 2009, I would tell myself that I need to stand up and tell you how I feel about our relationship back then with all of its warts. I probably would have punched myself in the face if I did not listen carefully. As bad as it was then, it was about to get much worse for all of us. What I did back then was selfish and short sighted. I know now that I will never do this again as the things that I did scarred us for the rest of our lives. I did not feel loved back then, and was searching for something that was right under my nose."_


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## FormerNiceGuy

step_raising said:


> I've given up shooting guns, camping, wheeling, motorcycle riding, pretty much everything I used to do. I'm not sure what else I can do - other than just say 'yes mamm!' (thanks to Al Bundy... one of my favorite quotes!)


You are enabling all of this bad behavior. Stop it yesterday.

Start putting yourself first. Don't clean, don't cook, stop it all and let things fall apart. Pay your bills etc, but don't help anyone. Take the extra money and start shooting, hunting etc. Make yourself happy first. Watch your world descend into a brief period of chaos and then, like magic, order will appear and you won't be carrying the piano and the bar stool.



step_raising said:


> I don't want to cheat... but it would be nice to feel like a Man again.


What gave you the idea that handing your wife your "ba!!s" was a good idea? Take them back, insert and start acting like a Man. You will be amazed.

Go read the Man Up sticky. As Yoda would say, "all solvable problems you have." The operative word is you - they are all your problems and you can fix them.


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## DTO

justwhy said:


> Weekly date nite, tell her she looks nice in the mornings, Cook her breakfast in bed on Sundays, take the kids to the park or walk for an hour on Saturday. It's the little things that she wants. I love when my husband steals the neighbor's rose and bring it to me when he comes from work.


Hmmm, sounds good (and I'm sure his wife would agree). But, (and this is a serious if somewhat rhetorical question) what should he stop doing now in order to make that happen?

When the complaints include "not doing enough for the family" I tend to think that the problem is not just about the marriage connection. This sounds like a lady who wishes she had more money, had a nicer home, did not have to work so much, etc.

Given that the OP is stretched to the limit, asking him to do more is a tough sell. Even if his wife likes the new things, the things that don't get done are going to cause her to continue to complain.

What the OP needs to do is have a sit-down with his wife, establish some basic concepts for addressing household wants and needs, and then fit his wife's wishes and such within that framework.

ETA: Whatever the reasons are, this smells like the OP's wife is unhappy about stuff that has nothing to do with his level of effort.


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## DTO

justwhy said:


> they're at a rough patch in their marriage and the answer is not to walk out. She's communicating the issue and now as a couple they must work on it. And yes a date nite will reward both of them because both of them are overwhelmed with work and the kids. :scratchhead:


Umm, she is communicating that she has _some_ issue. Vague complaints are hers are usually red herrings IMO.

And, he is overworked. She might be or might not be. Let's not forget that these are her kids from another guy - one who is not paying support. It is not unreasonable for someone to expect that she should be doing more than him, simply because her and her existing family are consuming most of the resources, by far, in this household.

I'm not saying he can be a total slug and treat her like dirt. But, any woman in this situation whose current husband is putting in a full 50% is extremely lucky and getting a great deal. This guy sounds like he is doing more than 50%.


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## DTO

Toffer said:


> Unless she's working longer hours than he is AND he's raising her 3 kids, why does SHE need to be pampered and rewarded? Again, whenever there are issues in a marriage everyone ASSUMES the man isn't doing enough!
> 
> Step, you and your wife could also sit down and write up a list of chores and who will be responsible for what. You'll need to balance this list by addressing how much each of you works outside the home.
> 
> Lastly, a slight warning. This is an early sign of a marriage going south. Seek marriage counseling. She's got some issues with you


Step, this sums up how I feel as well.

I am of a somewhat analytical, planning mindset. If I were in your situation, I would take a few steps back from just splitting up the chores and consider the underlying issues:

* What do you want from life? A child of your own? Pursue some individual interests? More attention from your wife?
* How should the family be run? How much relative effort should go to you vs. your wife vs. the children? How much do you want to be involved with them?
* Given that it takes a great deal of money and time to run a household of five, how much of that are you willing to provide? Do you just want a break now and then? Or, do your think your wife needs to step up and provide more on an ongoing basis since the kids are hers and not yours?

I think where you need to be is in an agreement with your wife regarding the overall philosophy (if you will) of the household. If you do that, then sorting out the details seems like it will happen fairly naturally. OTOH, if you cannot agree on the big concepts - like you want your wife to pull more weight since those are her kids, and she refuses - you'll always be bickering over the details.

BTW, given that your wife is complaining now, how would she manage on her own? There is a legal concept whereby step-parents can be sued for child support under certain circumstances. I do not know the details, but someone I know had his ex try to get it from him. See an attorney and make sure you avoid being on the hook for this in case the marriage goes south.


----------



## DTO

River1977 said:


> Step_Raising, you and others here place way too much emphasis on you being a step parent.


Hmmm, 

Seems like Step specifically said his wife complained about him not doing enough for the family. Sounds like she expects him to emphasize being a step-parent and do all that other stuff, and more of it.

If his wife had said "Step, I appreciate the help but these are my kids and I should be primarily responsible for raising them" I would tend to agree with you. But, that's not what I'm hearing from the OP.


----------



## DTO

Jeff/BC said:


> Step_raising: In general, when I hear "you're not doing enough" I generally figure it's a coin of the realm problem. That is to say, "YOU think you're paying into the pot in rich coinage. SHE on the other hand, isn't valuing whatever it is your contributing as highly as you do."
> 
> The general rule in our marriage is that the recipient gets to value the coins, not the giver. So in our house, I'd be asking about the value of the things I do give (not with the intent to argue, but rather with the intent to educate myself) then I'd be asking about the higher value things she wished I gave. Then I'd be sitting down with her to work out a team-based plan that will effectively allow me to give those things.
> 
> Whether or not SHE is paying up in an appropriate coin of the realm for you is an entirely separate conversation. I try not to deal with them at the same time because down that path is the insanity of "fairness".


Step,

I like this. The only thing I would add, if applicable, is that if you feel stretched too thin you need to say something. Try asking your wife what it is she would like from you and what is you do that she does not value. Think about it, and consider what you might have to drop in order to give her more of what she wants.

What you don't want to do is have her add more to your plate when you are already stretched so thin. There are only 24 hours in a day and at some point a sense of balance in your respective workloads needs to be reached to have a workable relationship.


----------



## Entropy3000

DTO said:


> Hmmm, sounds good (and I'm sure his wife would agree). But, (and this is a serious if somewhat rhetorical question) what should he stop doing now in order to make that happen?
> 
> When the complaints include "not doing enough for the family" I tend to think that the problem is not just about the marriage connection. This sounds like a lady who wishes she had more money, had a nicer home, did not have to work so much, etc.
> 
> Given that the OP is stretched to the limit, asking him to do more is a tough sell. Even if his wife likes the new things, the things that don't get done are going to cause her to continue to complain.
> 
> What the OP needs to do is have a sit-down with his wife, establish some basic concepts for addressing household wants and needs, and then fit his wife's wishes and such within that framework.
> 
> ETA: Whatever the reasons are, this smells like the OP's wife is unhappy about stuff that has nothing to do with his level of effort.


Very good points here. Maybe they need to sit down and do His Needs Her Needs to figure out what needs he is not fullfilling. Something has to give. They seem to not have enough money. Which feeds into the raising three kids. Where does he back off? if it that she wants to cut back on her work hours. I am hearing hearing him say he is working as hard as he can. He is indeed helping support three step children. How much is enough?

I agree they need to figure out what needs she feels need meeting and then he can consider making the changes to meet those needs and back off on other less important.


----------



## FormerNiceGuy

Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe they need to sit down and do His Needs Her Needs to figure out what needs he is not fullfilling.


Guys, 

Rome is on fire and you are organizing a committee to design the plumbing for new fire hydrants.

:scratchhead:


----------



## Entropy3000

FormerNiceGuy said:


> Guys,
> 
> Rome is on fire and you are organizing a committee to design the plumbing for new fire hydrants.
> 
> :scratchhead:


I am saying find the root cause of the problem. What is your point?

The results of that will be enlightening and then he can better decide to focus on himself because she is being unreasonable.

I am suggesting that she may want it all. She can't have it all.


----------



## DTO

River1977 said:


> Post like yours was my whole point.
> 
> 1. You don't have any idea if he receives gratitude or not. You and all the others just assumed everything he wanted you to assume.
> 
> 2. You have no idea what he does or does not do. He made himself seem like he does so much. He wanted sympathy and everyone to agree with him, which is exactly what you and everyone keeps doing.
> 
> 3. No one has any idea what she does for him - if she makes him breakfast in bed or takes her own kids to the park or does anything for him at all. You just IMAGINED that she does NOTHING for him. You all just keep on IMAGINING the circumstances just from what he stated when it is more than obvious he left out their entire lives.
> 
> 4. I don't care about you saying it's not genetic makeup and it takes getting used to and blah, blah, blah. He was with her for some time before they married and knew she had children. They didn't meet and marry in the same day.


Not really,

First, on boards like these we necessarily only get the poster's view of the story. It is up to the OPs to give a complete story so as to get the best possible advice. If we assume everyone is lying or exaggerating.

Two, this is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black. You are assuming Step is lying but at the same time criticizing others for assuming he's telling the truth. On what basis do you feel that Step is misrepresenting the truth (other than the normal biases we can assume everyone has when posting here)?

Three, Step is flat out saying he is at (or past) capacity. That is a fact - not something that is relative to a comparison with some other person. Likewise, that he is not the father of these children is a fact. Any solution that feels like "you don't do as much as you think and need to step it up" is, at best, unhelpful.


----------



## DTO

step_raising said:


> She brings in about 1/3 of our income and that is one of our side businesses.


Ok, just to be clear...

You are making twice what she makes. What she does bring in is related to one of the side businesses.

Is that one of the side businesses that you also help administer? If yes, does that imply that you have a hand in all the money being brought in? If not, what is the connection between these side businesses you said you run after work and this one that provides her income?

Does she have a regular 9-5 job making steady money that does not depend on your effort and provides some stability in case the side business dips down a bit?


----------



## FormerNiceGuy

Entropy3000 said:


> I am saying find the root cause of the problem. What is your point?


The root cause of the problem is obvious. OP stated it multiple times. He is a human doormat and doesn't like it. We don't need to know anything about his wife, her gratitude, anything. He hates his life. He needs to change it. Very simple.


----------



## DTO

Hope1964 said:


> And what does it matter whether the biological father pays child support??


Because if he did, then Step would not have to bust his butt to pay bills, and there would be more time to simply enjoy life, and thus less stress.


----------



## deejov

Toffer said:


> Do the chore chart!
> 
> tell your wife "Honey, I know you feel that I don't do enough around the house to help you out and that's a concern to me. I did a little reading about this and came across this idea of doing a chore chart to help sort this out" Then explain the process that was laid out earlier by another poster.
> 
> Then do it and stick to it!


I so do agree with this!
If she thinks you aren't doing enough, it might just be her opinion. Write it down. And be clear about how much you can do. Toss the stuff that isn't really necessary. Make life simpler, live with more mess.


----------



## Entropy3000

FormerNiceGuy said:


> The root cause of the problem is obvious. OP stated it multiple times. He is a human doormat and doesn't like it. We don't need to know anything about his wife, her gratitude, anything. He hates his life. He needs to change it. Very simple.


I am a bit more methodical. I often assess a situation but I usally then go about the due diligence of verifying thoughts. So while I too feel it seems this way, I am suggesting he do some validation. 

I think given the fact that she wanted him to do more in a given area it is worth seeing what she would expect to give up in another. If she just wants more of everything, then I would come to the same conclusion as you. I am not there yet.


----------



## DTO

deejov said:


> I so do agree with this!
> If she thinks you aren't doing enough, it might just be her opinion. Write it down. And be clear about how much you can do. Toss the stuff that isn't really necessary. Make life simpler, live with more mess.


I totally agree.

But, I learned from experience that sometimes this does not work. You need to build from a foundation of what is important to a marriage and what everyone's roles are. Dealing with the details (like allocating chores between themselves equally on the posterboard, or even making the 17 y/o help out) assume agreement on the foundation.

My personal example: my ex and I (having our own kids, no stepkids) kept butting heads in a similar fashion. I was also pulling down 2x what she was, working more hours, doing more housework, etc. But we still kept butting heads about how little I did and how unreasonable my requests were.

So, I initiated a different conversation. I approached the topic with "we are a partnership and should try to balance how much effort we put in for each other and how much we get back for ourselves." Unfortunately, my ex disagreed - to her, a marriage primarily about the man serving and deferring to the woman.

It sucks to hear that, but it explained clearly why we were at such an impasse and that no amount of quibbling was going to matter until she agreed that I deserved as much as she did. As a result, I figured out that the challenge was not nitpicking the small issues but rather demanding respect.

That's why I always recommend starting from the basic "agreement" of the relationship.


----------



## Hope1964

DTO said:


> Because if he did, then Step would not have to bust his butt to pay bills, and there would be more time to simply enjoy life, and thus less stress.


Then you/they have the wrong attitude. NO ONE should depend on child support to pay their bills. If you do, you're making a mistake. Child support should be thought of as bonus money when it appears and be put away for the kids.

My ex has paid sporadically through the years and every time I get anything it's totally extraneous. Even when I was on welfare.

Having the attitude that you NEED child support to live is setting yourself up to be disappointed.



Unhappy2011 said:


> HA!!! :rofl:
> 
> That was good.
> 
> I completely disagree with you, in case that is not clear.


You seriously think so? I hope you aren't married with stepkids  Differentiating 'your' kids from 'her' kids is NO way to have a successful relationship


----------



## Goldmember357

chillymorn said:


> get out tell her to raise her own kids!
> 
> 
> you will regret stay with someone who dosn't respect your efforts to suport her and her kids.


:iagree:

I dont get people who put themselves in these situations


----------



## DanglingDaisy

It's irking me to read how many guys here like the OP agree with the "they're not my kids" mentality...very superficial if you ask me.

If you're in a relationship with this woman, they ARE your kids-stop talking about them as second class citizens just because you're mad one doesn't help with chores(MOST kids would opt out if not enforced biological or not) 

I agree everyone needs to vent. It's very therapeutic! At the same time, be honest. I noticed how you skim through a lot of people's inquiries and answer the less evasive questions. 

Question for you OP-is what you're hoping to get out of this post I know we all come from different places in our lives. Some just want to be heard. Others just want to vent. While some want genuine feedback and ways to change up how wrong things are going. Which part are you at?


----------



## NotLikeYou

DanglingDaisy said:


> It's irking me to read how many guys here like the OP agree with the "they're not my kids" mentality...very superficial if you ask me.
> 
> If you're in a relationship with this woman, they ARE your kids-stop talking about them as second class citizens just because you're mad one doesn't help with chores(MOST kids would opt out if not enforced biological or not)
> 
> I agree everyone needs to vent. It's very therapeutic! At the same time, be honest. I noticed how you skim through a lot of people's inquiries and answer the less evasive questions.
> 
> Question for you OP-is what you're hoping to get out of this post I know we all come from different places in our lives. Some just want to be heard. Others just want to vent. While some want genuine feedback and ways to change up how wrong things are going. Which part are you at?


I love it when chicks bring out the shaming language!

"Man up and raise my children that I had with an irresponsible bad boy, you beta provider! Work harder for my kids. What? Well, damn straight they're MY kids. There's no question from my end, so there shouldn't be from yours, either. Now hand over that paycheck, loser."

All the brave gals on here telling the OP how lucky he is that this harpy he married hasn't ditched him are missing the point. She needs him to support her and some other guy's kids, so that she and her kids can have a good life. You think she's going to ditch a nice dull provider, you're CRAZY!

I don't really have any advice for OP- he came, he griped, and he is now averting his gaze from his destiny, cloaking it in "I made a commitment" type justifications.

At the end of the day, he will still be there, supporting his ungrateful wife, which is exactly the outcome our gentle female posters here seem to prefer. So what's the problem again?


----------



## FirstYearDown

turnera said:


> If there's a 17 year old, he/she had better damn well be doing chores! You need to put your foot down about that; you are doing that kid no favors by not requiring chores. No chores = no phone.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Kids these days are too spoiled and lazy.

When I was 17, I had a part time job, did well in school AND did chores. I had to do laundry for six people and clean a huge four bedroom house.


----------



## Hopefull363

Could it possibly be that she is not getting enough affection? I'm much more agreeable and do not care what my husband does as long as he's giving me affection. Women can overlook a lot if they feel loved. And yes her older children should contribute to the household by doing chores. I wonder what she would say?


----------



## Entropy3000

Hope1964 said:


> 1/3 income means nothing - how much time does this take her?
> 
> If my husband had the attitude that because our kids are not biologically his he's doing me a favor being around, well, he wouldn't be around.
> 
> WE have 3 kids, not ME. They are OURS. Whether you knew going into it how much it would involve or not is totally irrelevant. How many new dads who have a new baby knew going into it what it would involve?? How many moms do?? *The fact that the sperm that penetrated the eggs that made those kids isn't yours should NOT factor into your thinking anywhere. If it does you're being selfish.*


It is a different thing. I raised my step daughter from when she was two. I loved her and raised her as my own. But any man or woman who raises someone elses child deserves much credit.

In this case it is amazing that the bilogical father is providing no support. he is not doing enough. But it is now on this new guy to take up the slack.

Child suppoprt money is for the support of the kids. Kids are a huge expense. It is not bonus money.

But I agree with all of you guys. He should not have agreed to this and he should seriously consider moving on and let the next nice guy come into play.

Also it matters I think if the family is a mix where each spouse may have a child from a previous marriage. More balanced. But marrying a person who has three children is daunting.

My mother had two sisters. She was the middle child. Her mother died after giving birth to the youngest. Later my grandfather remarried. She raised all three of the girls. What a loving woman to be able to walk into a ready made family like that. It is a big deal. We should appreciate folks like that and not take them for granted.


----------



## turnera

One, we don't know why she divorced her first husband. She may have been the problem.

Two, the Hold On To Your N.U.T.S book will directly address his inability to hold on to things that matter to him, like all the stuff he gave up just to be married to her. Until he's ready to say to her 'I gave up everything else I enjoy to make you happy. I'm not going to continue to do that, until you respect me and my contribution,' he will continue to resent her and she will continue to resent him.


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> *One, we don't know why she divorced her first husband. She may have been the problem.*
> 
> Two, the Hold On To Your N.U.T.S book will directly address his inability to hold on to things that matter to him, like all the stuff he gave up just to be married to her. Until he's ready to say to her 'I gave up everything else I enjoy to make you happy. I'm not going to continue to do that, until you respect me and my contribution,' he will continue to resent her and she will continue to resent him.


Been wondering that myself.


----------



## EleGirl

Hope1964 said:


> Then you/they have the wrong attitude. NO ONE should depend on child support to pay their bills. If you do, you're making a mistake. Child support should be thought of as bonus money when it appears and be put away for the kids.
> 
> My ex has paid sporadically through the years and every time I get anything it's totally extraneous. Even when I was on welfare.
> 
> Having the attitude that you NEED child support to live is setting yourself up to be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> You seriously think so? I hope you aren't married with stepkids  Differentiating 'your' kids from 'her' kids is NO way to have a successful relationship


Child support is supposed to go to help pay the bills for raising the children. Having children means a larger house is needed, more utilities are consumed, they need clothing, healthcare, food and on and on. 

You can chose to handle the child care you receive the way you want to. It's your choice.

There are many ex's who pay child support on time every month year after year. There are many parents receiving child support who truely need it.

Since the OP seems to be working all the time to earn enough money to support his step children and his wife, it does seem to me that the family does need the child support.

How would his wife and step children even be able to live if he was not taking care of them?


----------



## DTO

Hopefull363 said:


> I wonder what she would say?


That is the critical question, and what I intended that Step should find out by initiating that talk about the conceptual foundation of the marriage.

Is she willing to have a little less done for the kids and home in order to have more "them" time? Can they agree that, at the end of the day, he matters as much as she and / or her kids?


----------



## EleGirl

Step,
More info is needed.
Your wife has a 17 year old. How old are the other two?
What is the custody arrangement? Does she have 100%?
Does he have visitation/time with the children if so how much? Or is he completely absent and why?
Why are you driving her children to see their father who does not even help with them?
Why is their father not paying child support? 
Why hasn’t she gone to court to get child support from him?
What is all the work she wants you to do?


----------



## 67flh

step raising, not sure where you're at but in pa, if you don't pay your child support, your butts sitting in jail. something to check into


----------



## DTO

DanglingDaisy said:


> It's irking me to read how many guys here like the OP agree with the "they're not my kids" mentality...very superficial if you ask me.
> 
> If you're in a relationship with this woman, they ARE your kids-stop talking about them as second class citizens just because you're mad one doesn't help with chores(MOST kids would opt out if not enforced biological or not)


I don't think you are necessarily treating them as second hand citizens, but simply recognizing that the dynamics and privileges are different than with your own biological children.

It goes deeper than provision. Does Step, for instance, have backing from him wife to set house rules for the children? Is he empowered to discipline them? Does he have co-equal say in typical parenting decisions, or is the power with his wife and possibly the bio father (who apparently sees the kids regularly)? 

If the kids are truly both of theirs and not just hers, Step should be able to tell his daughter to get a job and help around the home. Somehow I don't think Step's wife would go with that.

Step, would your wife go for that? Looking for your input.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> Step,
> More info is needed.
> Your wife has a 17 year old. How old are the other two?
> What is the custody arrangement? Does she have 100%?
> Does he have visitation/time with the children if so how much? Or is he completely absent and why?
> Why are you driving her children to see their father who does not even help with them?
> Why is their father not paying child support?
> Why hasn’t she gone to court to get child support from him?
> What is all the work she wants you to do?


Absolutely. There is a lot of back and forth going on here as folks are essentially waiting for more information.

The above would be very helpful.


----------



## Toffer

Hope1964 said:


> Then you/they have the wrong attitude. NO ONE should depend on child support to pay their bills. If you do, you're making a mistake. Child support should be thought of as bonus money when it appears and be put away for the kids.
> 
> My ex has paid sporadically through the years and every time I get anything it's totally extraneous. Even when I was on welfare.
> 
> Having the attitude that you NEED child support to live is setting yourself up to be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> You seriously think so? I hope you aren't married with stepkids  Differentiating 'your' kids from 'her' kids is NO way to have a successful relationship


Hope, I think you missed the point on that one. E was saying that it would make their lives easier if they did get child support from the kid's dad. Their bills would be somewhat lower (I have 3 kids so I know what it costs) and the OP would'nt be busting his butt as much and would perhaps have some more time to deal with other issues


----------



## Acorn

Hope1964 said:


> Then you/they have the wrong attitude. NO ONE should depend on child support to pay their bills. If you do, you're making a mistake. Child support should be thought of as bonus money when it appears and be put away for the kids.


Hope, I usually agree with you but I completely disagree with you here.

Non-custodial parents should be paying their share of the child care. If it was truly a bonus, no one would pay it. 

So, the wife in question here has two choices, she can nag and tell her ex, who fathered the children, that he's not doing enough to provide for their kids. Or, she can let him off the hook, and tell her current mate to work extra to make up the slack from her ex. No wonder there is so much resentment on his part.

Her wrath is misplaced. At least that's the vibe I'm getting from this thread.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

With her working full time and raising your children, I fully understand her request.

Since I'm a SAHM, I do not ever expect my hubby to do any housework. I have a neck injury, which limits my activity, but I still manage to get things done on my good days. 

When we were first married, I had a really hard demanding physical job. I came home exhausted, I brought a child into the marriage and 9 months after we married another baby came along. I was working and quit my job about a year later. It was extremely difficult to work a difficult job, grocery shop, make dinner, clean house, laundry all on my own. It was such a blessing to rid of my job and become a full time mother. My husband does not like doing housework. However, since I'm now disabled I won't be returning to work. Which is fine by me. I do enjoy being a full time mother. I spend every minute I can with my children.


----------



## Hope1964

I am not missing the point - you guys are. Sure, every non-custodial parent should pay child support. They owe it to their kids, and in many cases it's court ordered anyway. And if everything works the way it's supposed to, they do. My point is, though, that the parent receiving this support should never COUNT on it being there. Being that dependent on an ex spouse is not a smart thing to do. Believe me, I know. My ex currently owes about $65,000.00 in child support because he hardly paid at all over the years. Your monthly cheque could disappear at any time, and many times does, if the ex is willing to live under the radar and be one of those notorious deadbeats. And they do not put deadbeats in jail. Not in Canada anyways. They don't even LOOK for them here. The system is broken, completely broken, so I chose not to rely on it. It's the prudent thing to do, even in cases where the ex DOES pay diligently. What happens if the payor dies? It's just smart not to rely on anyone but yourself. That's why I say that when you DO get child support, don't use it to pay for necessities. You should already have those covered. Use it for college funds, clothes, family vacations, that type of thing.

And I also resent the attitude that seems prevalent here that this woman is a gold digger who married this guy just to 'dig her claws' into him. We have no evidence of that, and that irks me because there are many parallels between this situation and my own - my husband married me AND the 3 kids I had from my previous marriage. So yes, the gold diggers are out there - I've known a few - but we are not a gold digger just because we already have kids. 

If you don't want to marry a woman with kids then don't. This guy DID. To say after the fact that you don't consider them 'yours' because your sperm didn't make them IS selfish. If there are problems with the kids, don't blame it on the fact they aren't your biological kids. Blame it on the fact they are KIDS, period, and treat them as such.


----------



## kenw

step_raising said:


> So I've been married about 6 years, I'm raising my wife's 3 kids. Their Dad hasn't paid child support for over two years. I work 9-10 hours a day at a full-time job and come home and try to run several side businesses so that I don't have to get a part-time job. With all of the regular kid issues and some more serious ones since they are dealing with their parents divorce, moving, etc in their own ways. I'm about taxed to death. She works hard as well but is always complaining to me that I do not do enough around the house, that I don't do enough for the family, that she wishes that I was different in many ways that bother her. I've tried to take her out more, but it always seems to digress into what I'm not doing enough of.
> 
> I'm so frustrated, I don't know what to do anymore... I watch my other guy friends and I don't see them having the same issues with their wives.
> 
> Help guys.... what are your wives like or what can I do? Besides finding a job in another country... :scratchhead:


i feel for you man, here's my advice;

sit her down and *sternly* explain your feelings. there needs to be no confusion as to your frustration and feelings of disrespect. and she needs to understand the consequences. you need to respect yourself and value what you do so it's easier for her to as well.
if she can't stop making you feel like such a disappointment, then take yourself elsewhere. 

...or, do more around the house and stop complaining.


if you don't handle this, this is your fault. you allow the people around you to treat you the way they do, to a large degree.


----------



## Entropy3000

A person who has three kids as in this case should cherish a spouse who helps them raise and support them. Expecting that spouse to make up for their other failed relationship is disengenuous. They should be appreciating the help. Anything else is indeed selfish.

Many men raise other men's children. In no way are these men selfish. You may be uncomfortable with this but there is a difference between a step parent and a biological parent at some level. If your children were created from your egg or sperm you are responsible for them. If not then you are a wonderful person to love them anyways.

This woman makes 1/3 of the family incolme. They cannot seem to make ends meet. She brought three children into the world. She now lives with a man who provides 2/3 the income and in so doing supports his wife and her three children. She wants him to do more. Do the math.


----------



## Conrad

Entropy3000 said:


> I am saying find the root cause of the problem. What is your point?
> 
> The results of that will be enlightening and then he can better decide to focus on himself because she is being unreasonable.
> 
> I am suggesting that she may want it all. She can't have it all.


Entropy,

I'm a fan of yours.

FNG is on this one.

Trust me, the relationship is "working fine" for HER. She's got a crash dummy on which to take out her anger.

I'm curious about her childhood.

What was it like?


----------



## Hope1964

Entropy3000 said:


> A person who has three kids as in this case should cherish a spouse who helps them raise and support them. Expecting that spouse to make up for their other failed relationship is disengenuous. They should be appreciating the help. Anything else is indeed selfish.


Totally agree. If this wife is indeed doing this, and the husband does not have the attitude that he's doing her a favor, I totally agree. It isn't clear exactly what's going on with the OP - it's more the attitudes of some other posters I was addressing.



Entropy3000 said:


> Many men raise other men's children. In no way are these men selfish.


 I don't think so either - quite the contrary. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.




Entropy3000 said:


> You may be uncomfortable with this but there is a difference between a step parent and a biological parent at some level. If your children were created from your egg or sperm you are responsible for them. If not then you are a wonderful person to love them anyways.


 Parents are wonderful people to love their children, period. Biologically theirs or not. Yes I agree there is a difference on some level - it's when someone feels entitled to praise for being this wonderful person who agreed to take in the poor little single mommy's poor little children that my hackles get raised.



Entropy3000 said:


> This woman makes 1/3 of the family incolme. They cannot seem to make ends meet. She brought three children into the world. She now lives with a man who provides 2/3 the income and in so doing supports his wife and her three children. She wants him to do more. Do the math.


 Again, have we heard exactly what she does do? How many hours she works? If I missed it I apologize. If she is in fact a lazy beotch then of course he has every right to complain. If he's just resenting the fact he's raising 'her' 3 kids, then he's being selfish. Just the fact he says "I'm raising my wife's 3 kids" raises red flags to me. My husband always calls the kids HIS kids, not HERS.


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## Conrad

Unhappy2011 said:


> uhh no. I don't have kids of my own. Why would I want a woman with kids from another man?
> 
> This guy has no kids of his own. I suspect this mom just dug her claws into him to use him as a provider for her kids. Many women do that. I See it all the time.
> 
> Did you read what he said she was saying to him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll bet he thought he could fix it.

AND, I'll bet he thought she'd be grateful for his help.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

This insight comes from hard-won experience.


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## Toffer

Hope,

I said you missed the point one one issue. You said "That's why I say that when you DO get child support, don't use it to pay for necessities"

I do not believe that the OP stated ANYWHERE that they weren't making ends meet and obviously, since they aren't getting any child support, your point is somewhat moot.

I do agree that the OP married the woman knowing that she had three kids. The point being that HER treatment of the OP is beginning to POSSIBLY make her look like one of those gold digger types. I know the OP hasn't answered some of the questions asked of him and I think it is important especially to get the answers on what he is allowed to do regarding the kids (discipline, etc). I think those answers will shed light on how his wife sees him, as a true partner or an ATM


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## Entropy3000

Hope1964, We are missing needed information on this. On just what has been provided I have suggested he sit down with her and find out where she is coming from. Too often we all speak at cross purposes.

It may be that he needs to back off some of his work efforts and focus time on other things. However if it is just wanting more, then that gets very tough on a marriage.


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## Hope1964

Entropy3000 said:


> Hope1964, We are missing needed information on this. On just what has been provided I have suggested he sit down with her and find out where she is coming from. Too often we all speak at cross purposes.
> 
> It may be that he needs to back off some of his work efforts and focus time on other things. However if it is just wanting more, then that gets very tough on a marriage.


Agreed.

@Toffer - I was speaking more to other posters than to the OP on that - sorry that wasn't clear. Like you say, important info is missing regarding the OP, so it's hard to comment on his situation further till we know.

@Unhappy2011 - I have no problem with people suggesting to the OP that she may be a gold digger. What I have a problem with is blanket statements that make every single mom out to be a gold digger. This is what got under my skin: _"I don't have kids of my own. *Why would I want a woman with kids from another man?* This guy has no kids of his own. I suspect this mom just dug her claws into him to use him as a provider for her kids. Many women do that. I See it all the time."_ We have NO evidence to suggest this woman is in fact a 'gold digger'. She very well may be, but the implication that single moms have less worth than single woman without kids is what bothered me personally. It's a recurring thing on TAM actually, and gotten me in trouble before


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## Toffer

Unhappy2011 said:


> It wasn't a blanket statement.
> 
> You read it wrong and got all offended.


Agree with Unhappy. You read it wrong and it also was ONE man's statement about how HE felt about marrying a woman with kids and how HE felt about this particular woman and others HE's seen!


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## Hope1964

Toffer said:


> Agree with Unhappy. You read it wrong and it also was ONE man's statement about how HE felt about marrying a woman with kids and how HE felt about this particular woman and others HE's seen!


From page one of this thread:



chillymorn said:


> get out tell her to raise *her own kids!*





Unhappy2011 said:


> If you are helping to raise *some other man's kids* then you are doing enough as is.
> 
> Let me guess, she is good looking with an entitlement complex.
> 
> And she got knocked up by some loser "bad boy" who she would never say those things too.
> 
> Dude.....I would not put up with that.





AFEH said:


> Yeh right. Forget about and ignore the flipping great big things like helping her raise *HER three children*!
> 
> And when she moans about it give her rewards like date nights ….





sinnister said:


> Maybe SHE can cook HIM breakfast in bed on Sundays? Take *her own kids* to the park for an hour on Saturday?


Need I continue?


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## Toffer

"Need I continue?"

No, because you keep seeing what you want to see! Two posters who apparently pushed your buttons and you can't let it go!


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## unbelievable

How unhappy must a man be before he leaves a woman with his three kids? I don't suppose he ever did enough to suit her, either.


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## AFEH

Hope1964 said:


> From page one of this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need I continue?


:sleeping:


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## Unsure in Seattle

Awful lot of "blame the OP" or reading stuff that isn't there into things around these parts of late. Careful, folks, or this place is gonna turn into Loveshack.

OP, I think the chore chart is a good idea, with the caveat of a good dollop of discussion. Sit down with the wife, tell her that you heard her complaints and want to address them, but that you felt attacked or that her complaints were unfair (and say why), and then have as gentle a disscussion as possible about dividing household chores as fairly as possible.


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## anotherguy

step_raising said:


> So I've been married about 6 years, I'm raising my wife's 3 kids. Their Dad hasn't paid child support for over two years. I work 9-10 hours a day at a full-time job and come home and try to run several side businesses so that I don't have to get a part-time job. With all of the regular kid issues and some more serious ones since they are dealing with their parents divorce, moving, etc in their own ways. I'm about taxed to death. She works hard as well but is always complaining to me that I do not do enough around the house, that I don't do enough for the family, that she wishes that I was different in many ways that bother her. I've tried to take her out more, but it always seems to digress into what I'm not doing enough of.
> 
> I'm so frustrated, I don't know what to do anymore... I watch my other guy friends and I don't see them having the same issues with their wives.
> 
> Help guys.... what are your wives like or what can I do? Besides finding a job in another country... :scratchhead:


Gads.

This looks hard - little doubt most of this is just from both of you feeling overwhelmed. I wonder if it would help if you could find a way to talk about it with her if you agree with that. That you recognize that she feels like she is left holding the bag for all the house stuff.

You need to get it right out front that you do not want the discussion to turn into a debate about who does more - its not a contest. The important thing is that you both are able to talk a bit about it, and more importantly - listen a little bit. Let her know that you can see how frustrated she is, and that maybe she can see that you are as well. You need to establish the fact that you both are playing on the same team. Maybe make a couple a new concession and commitment to do something on each side so that you feel like you accomplished something more tangible.

Its clear to me that you are both trying. Both working fulltime t make ends meet and juggling the choas that is the family as well.

I think the 'stern talk' thing is more of that no-more-mr-nice-guy you-are-not-respecting-me bul$hit, but thats just me. Her complaining is frustration leaking out (whih isnt always pretty, is it?) and you can let the gas out of that balloon simply by confronting it and airing things out.


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## Conrad

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Awful lot of "blame the OP" or reading stuff that isn't there into things around these parts of late. Careful, folks, or this place is gonna turn into Loveshack.
> 
> OP, I think the chore chart is a good idea, with the caveat of a good dollop of discussion. Sit down with the wife, tell her that you heard her complaints and want to address them, but that you felt attacked or that her complaints were unfair (and say why), and then have as gentle a disscussion as possible about dividing household chores as fairly as possible.


This makes perfect sense.

Those with experience in this situation know it's unlikely to work.

From OP's description, it sounds like his wife had some form of childhood trauma.

I'm curious to see the extent of that trauma.


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## Hope1964

Oh, I can let it go. I just don't want to 

BTW, I count four posters that I quoted, not two. But maybe I'm seeing double??

I'll leave you guys to your delusions of grandeur now.


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## Conrad

Hope1964 said:


> Oh, I can let it go. I just don't want to
> 
> BTW, I count four posters that I quoted, not two. But maybe I'm seeing double??
> 
> I'll leave you guys to your delusions of grandeur now.


Thanks for keeping an open mind.


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## Anubis

As someone who has diligently paid more in support than many of you probably make, and has to deal with an ex-wife using threats of file filing false police reports against me to keep me from having contact with my kids when she is not telling how much more money from me she believes she is entitled to.... this is a difficult thread to read through. 

I side with the posters here who believe that step_raising needs to get respect from his wife back into their dynamic. 

One thing that we don't know is her expectations. It's quite possible that she believes marriage is about the husband existing to server her, and that she doesn't think that the chores and difficult parts of life should be distributed equally. 

My ex was like that and it was a catch-22. She complained that we didn't have enough money, so I worked harder while she stayed home and didn't pull her weight there. Then she would complain that I was always working or doing the chores she failed to do, and that I wasn't spending enough time doing "fun" things with her (and spending money on her). 

No matter how often I tried to sit down with her and work out a 'fair' distribution of the things that needed to be done, it wasn't good enough for her. *In her eyes, a very unfair/lopsided distribution of responsibly was the only thing that she believed was fair to her.*. If this is the case with step_raising.. that his wife believes she is entitled to a life that he not able to currently provide (because they don't have the money and he can't work like a mad man 23 hours a day) then he is screwed and will NEVER have healthy respect from her. 

Some women are just like this - that's what they believe is due them in life. And when the guy doesn't make her fantasy life a reality, she loses respect for him, degenerates him to others, and often will wind up cheating on him, justified in her mind because he wasn't the Prince of a small nation.

I don't know if that describes step_raising's wife or not, but if she does have an sense of entitlement that is out of sync with the reality of their situation, he is screwed.

Also, how old were her kids when he married her? If the were older (10+), the kids themselves may be limiting how much of dad he can be to them.


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## DTO

Anubis said:


> My ex was like that and it was a catch-22. She complained that we didn't have enough money, so I worked harder while she stayed home and didn't pull her weight there. Then she would complain that I was always working or doing the chores she failed to do, and that I wasn't spending enough time doing "fun" things with her (and spending money on her).


I feel bad for you, but it's kinda nice to know that I'm not the only one and not batshyte crazy for thinking this was happening in my marriage.


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## Lyris

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

Anubis said:


> Some women are just like this - that's what they believe is due them in life. And when the guy doesn't make her fantasy life a reality, she loses respect for him, degenerates him to others, and often will wind up cheating on him, justified in her mind because he wasn't the Prince of a small nation.


Here's the hard truth.

Those blessed with the most physically attractive features are MORE likely to be this way than the average female.

It's because there has ALWAYS been a "next" man willing to kiss her ass when "this one" won't.

Law of the jungle.


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## uzername

might be out in left field, but i know that sometimes (ONLY sometimes) when i'm frustrated and mad and venting on my husband, i accuse him of doing/not doing things that i am mad at myself for doing/not doing. 
if she constantly says you don't help around the house and you don't spend time with the kids, maybe she's feeling guilty because the house is messy and the kids are just a mess?


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## AFEH

uzername said:


> might be out in left field, but i know that sometimes (ONLY sometimes) when i'm frustrated and mad and venting on my husband, i accuse him of doing/not doing things that i am mad at myself for doing/not doing.
> if she constantly says you don't help around the house and you don't spend time with the kids, maybe she's feeling guilty because the house is messy and the kids are just a mess?


What’s it like to be totally incomprehensible to half the world’s population?


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## AFEH

Next some of them will be moaning that their Hs are workaholics, never help out at home yet all the while here they are spending massive amounts of time instead of doing the work at home.


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## uzername

AFEH said:


> What’s it like to be totally incomprehensible to half the world’s population?


i think you would have to answer that one for me. i don't get what you're saying. were my remarks too foreign for you to comprehend?


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## AFEH

uzername said:


> i think you would have to answer that one for me. i don't get what you're saying. were my remarks too foreign for you to comprehend?


I want to add that I truly admire your self awareness and honesty. But surely there’s enough crazy in a marriage without consciously adding more like the one you described. Best to stay way above that sort of very dysfunctional and immature behaviour.


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## uzername

AFEH said:


> I want to add that I truly admire your self awareness and honesty. But surely there’s enough crazy in a marriage without consciously adding more like the one you described. Best to stay way above that sort of very dysfunctional and immature behaviour.


thank you. and i totally agree - we should all try to keep 'crazy' out of the way. however, if you know 'crazy', you know sometimes 'crazy' comes around uninvited. and it comes in all sorts of forms, degrees, and is certainly not choosey about race, sex or orientation.

and i would never be this honest in person - i am not that evolved. however i feel safe enough here to admit my faults (and my strengths) and hope that maybe something i say might help someone else in some way.


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## AFEH

uzername said:


> thank you. and i totally agree - we should all try to keep 'crazy' out of the way. however, if you know 'crazy', you know sometimes 'crazy' comes around uninvited. and it comes in all sorts of forms, degrees, and is certainly not choosey about race, sex or orientation.
> 
> and i would never be this honest in person - i am not that evolved. however i feel safe enough here to admit my faults (and my strengths) and hope that maybe something i say might help someone else in some way.


Perhaps you should be this honest in person! If you’re not, you’re just covering your crazy with more crazy, crazy squared! It creates great gulfs within a marriage due to it’s inherent dishonesty! I’m the world’s premier, leading expert and authority on crazy!


Way better to be honest in these things. To be authentic and real opposed to creating an illusion that deludes the people around us such that they think they’re going crazy.


We’re all asses at times. Better to think “I’m an ass you’re an ass” and work things out from there.


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## Conrad

Trenton said:


> We can connect to anything if we choose to. Those saying it choose not to, which is fine, but certainly does not mean that men & women can't connect and nurture/provide for children that are not biologically theirs.


Does a connection require 2 people?


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## sinnister

This thread got way off topic...but again highlights the differences between the thinking of men and women.


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## okeydokie

this struggle of "who does more" is very common and i would venture to guess it exists in some form in all relationships. i think about it alot in my own marriage. but it does breed contempt. the difference here is one of the partners is making issue of it with the other. i am hearing the OP as saying not only does she not even appreciate what i do, she thinks i dont do enough at that.

i think the Op should tell her to STHU and get busy with her own tasks and let him take care of his

and a footnote. i love how in some threads the OP story is taken verbatim because "its all we have to go on" and in others threads the same posters will make wild assumptions in defense of the gender being questioned


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## Conrad

okeydokie said:


> this struggle of "who does more" is very common and i would venture to guess it exists in some form in all relationships. i think about it alot in my own marriage. but it does breed contempt. the difference here is one of the partners is making issue of it with the other. i am hearing the OP as saying not only does she not even appreciate what i do, she thinks i dont do enough at that.
> 
> i think the Op should tell her to STHU and get busy with her own tasks and let him take care of his
> 
> and a footnote. i love how in some threads the OP story is taken verbatim because "its all we have to go on" and in others threads the same posters will make wild assumptions in defense of the gender being questioned


OK,

That was a very politically correct way of stating the obvious.


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## step_raising

Sorry I've been aloof - I have some wonderful news... We had such a wonderful weekend... I quickly read the book that was suggested and found that I did need to make some adjustments in my behaviors and thought processes. There really were some good suggestions. So I took my sweet wife aside and apologized for hurting her and her feelings and wanted her to know how hurt I am when she says that I'm not doing enough and that I like to hear her problems and I'll help where I can, but I can't fix everything.

We spent most of the weekend talking together, cuddling and enjoying our weekend together. It was great!

There definitely are differences in how Men and Women communicate their needs - I don't think we're out of the woods yet... but maybe we will be able to help each other better.

Thanks for all of the great comments and suggestions...


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## turnera

That's great. Which book did you read, for future reference?


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## okeydokie

Conrad said:


> OK,
> 
> That was a very politically correct way of stating the obvious.


which part?


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## Conrad

okeydokie said:


> which part?


Which gender gets taken at face value.


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## Conrad

Trenton said:


> This is a complex question. I would say for most people the answer would be yes. I know I can connect to a child without expectation of a connection in return.


There's also less fear involved in connecting with a child.


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## lonelyangel

For me sounds like she has some issues with you other than what she is saying. Get to the bottom of it...tell her to quite whining you don't do enough and flat out ask her whats really going on . Because clearly you do over your share already. Marriage is suppose to be 50 /50 or as close to it as possible when trying to maintain a house and kids. both people work ...but you seem to be working over your load. She has something going on shes not telling you. best wishes!


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## ladybird

step_raising said:


> Thanks everyone! It's great to hear different approaches and feelings from both sides...
> 
> River - you are right, before marriage I was very worried about how handling the kids would work out. I didn't realize how much work everything would be trying to make everyone happy - including Ex-Husbands... she does deserve better.
> 
> You'd think that a 17 year old could help around the house... or at least clean up after himself. So right now, I'm rushing home - mow the lawn for 2 hours, work on emails and customer issues for an hour or two, then I need to remember to find a rose somewhere and get the dishes in the dishwasher so they don't stink, change the oil and fix the car that get's hundreds of miles driving the kids to meet up with their Dad that doesn't pay child support, go to all the school meetings and performances, go out to movies and dinner so everyone is happy, paint the house, fix the leaky roof, take care of fertilizer and weeds, then vacum the house, feed the kids, make the beds... I'm exhausted... I've given up shooting guns, camping, wheeling, motorcycle riding, pretty much everything I used to do. I'm not sure what else I can do - other than just say 'yes mamm!' (thanks to Al Bundy... one of my favorite quotes!)


A 17 year old should be cleaning up after himself.. And helping around the house.. Like mowing the lawn, taking the garbage out. All the kids should have their share of chores depending on the their ages..

I had 3 step kids and when they would come over on their weekends they all had something to do. They always were to make their beds when they got out of them and pick up after themselves (they were all teenagers.) Dishes, garbage. We assigned them their chores. It worked out well..

I would sit everyone down and assign them chores.. What they are to do everyday. That way you and your wife will have help..

How old are the kids?


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## Conrad

ladybird said:


> A 17 year old should be cleaning up after himself.. And helping around the house.. Like mowing the lawn, taking the garbage out. All the kids should have their share of chores depending on the their ages..
> 
> I had 3 step kids and when they would come over on their weekends they all had something to do. They always were to make their beds when they got out of them and pick up after themselves (they were all teenagers.) Dishes, garbage. We assigned them their chores. It worked out well..
> 
> I would sit everyone down and assign them chores.. What they are to do everyday. That way you and your wife will have help..
> 
> How old are the kids?


And your husband backed you up.


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## Crazy8

The OP's in a tough spot. If I were him, I'd just give up. Go do what you want to do, and let everything fall where it may.

When she goes to chew you out, tell her that this is exactly why you're not going to lift a finger. She doesn't appreciate it. 

I love my wife, but I'm getting to the point that I'm going to do this. I put her ahead of myself most times if not every time, and I expect the same from her, but she doesn't do it. So, I'm just going to stop. I'll put myself 1st until she understands that I do for people who appreciate. Not for people who expect. My wife's spoiled a little bit, and it needs to stop.

Yours might be spoiled a lot.


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