# Taking your pound of flesh?



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

A question that I have a hard time relating to since I've not experienced it personally, but why does it seem like the BS typically doesn't try to exact revenge or exact a "punitive damages" for being wronged? I get it that for those who want to reconcile that you cannot be heinous plus even in the case of decency and morals you don't want to become ugly to get some satisfaction. 

I've thought of this before wondering how things would go if I caught my wife having an affair. I know that there is a strong instinct to preserve what you have. But also, there is a strong sense of fairness and justice in all of us. 

For example, in a situation where the wife betrays a husband, and the husband finds out that while he was getting plain missionary sex, his wife was doing multiple positions plus giving the OM oral, do people think it would be wrong to require the WW to do multiple positions, give oral AND throw in anal on top of it because of the pain of betrayal? Knowing how much effort and time I invest in my marriage, I think I'd be one of those "small minded" BH's that would want a pound of flesh for compensation as a condition to reconcile. Maybe it's an RA or maybe it's making the WW watch the kids on a regular basis while the BH goes out frequently with no requirement to check in with the WW. Something I think to at least make the BS feel like he/she is getting some justice out of the deal.

I know I've used WW and BH terms, but really this is supposed to be sexless and should be WS and BS.


----------



## tryingtogetover (Feb 7, 2015)

Well Plan 9, I would say that if you are working to reconcile, the furthest thing from the BS mind is "exacting revenge."

Yes, as a BH I had fantasies of beating the crap out of the OM, and fantasies of making her suffer for her indiscretions, but once my wife was onboard for the R, it became two people working to fix things.

It doesn't appear that you have been in the position of the BS, and I hope that you never are, but until it happens to you, you can never know the emotional roller coaster and pain that comes with a cheating spouse.

Divorce is enough revenge if you can't reconcile, but if you can, wanting revenge isn't going to help you.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

If it's gotten to the point where the betrayed feels they need to punish the wayward, then the marriage is over. Just stick a fork in it.

I did get revenge, but it was in the form of exposing the affair partners to their spouses. But I didn't need to hurt my ex any more than she already did to herself.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I can almost laugh about it now. But at the time of the conversation with my ex-wife it was extremely painful.

Back story, during our lengthy marriage she was not liking either oral or anal sex.

Oral was occasional, anal never again after trying it once.

So zip forward to she being discovered to be cheating long term.


In an agitated discussion i proclaim that if we have any chance of reconciling then she has to be as sexual with me as she was with the jerk she cheated with. No more denying me anything she gave to him.

Her response?


"I am not having anal sex with you!"

I respond, reeling back at what that meant.

"So you had anal sex with him? I thought you hated that activity?"

Her response:

You are not going to trap me into saying something I didn't want to say."

Me:

"Hey, i didn't say anything about anal sex, you brought it up!"


To her, sexual variety with her husband is not her thing. 

But with some jerk? She will turn into what some would call a sl&t.

Needless to say, she is ex for a reason.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

It hurt my XWW more when after she got served with divorce papers, I told her *"You should be thankful I'm divorcing you. You get to have all the sex you want without hiding it from me and I get to find myself a woman who knows the meaning of fidelity"*. Her waterworks poured out non stop but I wasn't going to be her dam because I no longer gave a damn.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Dogbert said:


> It hurt my XWW more when after she got served with divorce papers, I told her *"You should be thankful I'm divorcing you. You get to have all the sex you want without hiding it from me and I get to find myself a woman who knows the meaning of fidelity"*. Her waterworks poured out non stop but I wasn't going to be her dam because I no longer gave a damn.


I had practically the same conversation with my ex-when i left her. 

Told her she was free to be the wh$re she always wanted to be.

Big cry-cry and her saying she never wanted to be one.

My response was acting like one makes you one and left.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Maybe revenge is not the right approach, but how about something to at least attempt to give the BS some kind of justice? Though as of now I still think a revenge affair is something that should not be taken off the table. Not to say it should happen, but should remain a viable option that the WS should be open to approving as a condition of reconciliation.


----------



## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

After 47 years married to WW and close to three away from her, I still feel protective towards her.

Go figure!


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

My question is, if your spouse not only cheated but is into doing things with the other person he/she is not interested in doing with you, why do you want to keep that spouse?


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

My pound of flesh was getting back control of my future without her.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> My pound of flesh was getting back control of my future without her.


I was going to write something similar. 

Human beings are biologically wired to want justice and have a strong sense of fairness. However, due to societal rules we cannot enact the same punishment without reprimand. Neither do I think we would want to. While it satisfies that biological urge, the true breaking free is on moving on your own path. 

It does not mean that we pretend we have no feelings, that what they did was hurtful, or we pretend life isn't fair. Life is not fair. So what do we do?

I think making it our goal to simmer in our feelings as our path is not what ultimately frees us. We need to simmer in our feelings for a while. Anger, hurt, betrayal, all those feelings are natural and tell us good information, but they are not the way. 

It is our own growth that is the way. And when we have moved far on our own path in life we can look back at the person who had walked with us and see they were on their own path too. Did they move forward? Or are they are stuck in their own ego chasing illusions of happiness from other human beings?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> My question is, if your spouse not only cheated but is into doing things with the other person he/she is not interested in doing with you, why do you want to keep that spouse?


I would assume familiarity with the spouse - maybe most of the marriage was solid until the infidelity. Probably the most common reason would be to try to make a go of it for the sake of the children. I'm assuming you know that these are standard answers given already, but regardless it's probably what motivates people to want to reconcile. I'm sure love is in there too, but I would guess that love would fall behind the kids on the pecking order. Whether it's the right thing or not, it happens fairly often in marriages without infidelity.


----------



## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

I am the @$$hole of the group. My wife offered me everything under the sun when her incident was found out. I never took her up on it (should have) and we stayed together (this is the subject of debate now, if you search my username you can see my situation). That being said, she has been opening up more to those things lately on her own.

Now, looking back, knowing what I know now, and being how I am now, I would be the most vindictive son of a ***** on the face of the planet. I would do anything and everything to her before I exposed her, him, divorced her, and put the fear of god into him (if not something else).

I used to be a very nice person. Very caring, always worried about helping others. And, I still am, usually. But, when this subject comes up, I could seriously turn into Timothy Olyphant in Hitman and not have a second thought about it. This incident put a level of hate into me that I didnt know was possible. The only thing that has kept me from acting on it is my children and distance at different times of our lives together.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm wired different then most...but her punishment was the only good part of busting my old lady.

After all it was her choice....walk away or stay and submit.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> My question is, if your spouse not only cheated but is into doing things with the other person he/she is not interested in doing with you, why do you want to keep that spouse?


It was different in my case.....the kinky things I was taking/doing to my old lady were the things the other men could only dream of.

Granted I took out a pound of flesh, but I did have to *step up* and kiss , hold, and talk to my old lady if the M was going to work out. Besides I wasn't about to let some soft sensitive POS beat me in the romance department.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Acoa said:


> If it's gotten to the point where the betrayed feels they need to punish the wayward, then the marriage is over. Just stick a fork in it.
> 
> I did get revenge, but it was in the form of exposing the affair partners to their spouses. But I didn't need to hurt my ex any more than she already did to herself.


Word.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Come to think of it, I never did get revenge...but boy was her butt red!

That was some crazy shyt in the basement that night!


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Exposure isn't revenge...its a civic duty warning other of what a POS the AP is.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

michzz said:


> I can almost laugh about it now. But at the time of the conversation with my ex-wife it was extremely painful.
> 
> Back story, during our lengthy marriage she was not liking either oral or anal sex.
> 
> ...


I agree with this and Plan 9. If she's willing to go there with some scumbag stranger, or someone else she shouldn't be, then to complicate things denies you what you want (within reason of course) during and after R, then I feel that she needs to go.

Why be in a plain Jane marriage with your W when she gets excited and goes overboard with some schmuck. It aids in mid movies and simply makes one ask, wtf is wrong with me ?


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

If you ever read The Merchant of Venice, you will actually find that a pound of flesh was a really bad idea by ******* and he never got his pound of flesh.

We do want a reckoning, we do want justice, and karma can be a great exactor of it.

My friend went through what we all went through and we both have 3 boys. The boys don't respect their mothers any more and the bond that these mothers gave up is far worse than anything I could have exacted on my EX.

My EX took so much from me it has been hard but also rewarding beyond compare. If you want revenge, you are still letting her/him control your thoughts. The best thing to do is to be free of the toxicity and enjoy your life.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

MovingAhead said:


> If you want revenge, you are still letting her/him control your thoughts. The best thing to do is to be free of the toxicity and enjoy your life.


Amen brother, amen.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Some of us have a PHD in pay back however. Is it wrong if you're really damn good at it and you come out ahead?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> My question is, if your spouse not only cheated but is into doing things with the other person he/she is not interested in doing with you, why do you want to keep that spouse?


I can only speak for myself. I loved talking with her, spending time, the sex we were having was good and progressing at a pace I was comfortable with, we seemed to give each other what we needed in all things for quite some time. It was a ruse. What I saw was what I wanted to see in part. 

So, I fooled myself, because I didn't know what happiness looked like. I'd never experienced it and still haven't. Because, if I thought that was happiness, there is no way I could have known. If that was not happiness, why didn't I know? I don't just mean what it feels like to be happy, but also what it looks like when someone else is happy.

Who fooled who? I'm confused with this answer. Maybe she was so experienced with life, sex, work...living, that I could not fathom what real living is? Maybe her idea of a happy life was not what I thought, or she thought it was? Who knows? Can anyone answer this? I wish they could. 

I thought we were happy for a very long time. I guess I missed the mark and the broad side of the barn? 


To the opening post question. I wanted revenge on many people. I've never attempted to get it. I still want it from time to time, but I know that she has too many connections to people who can really harm me in many ways, even putting me in prison by framing me as is done all the time and kept quiet. I know that she could take legal routes to punish me if I attempted anything. I also don't know how it would help me if I really did attempt to get revenge.

I don't know if I would want to do those things with her or have her watch while I did them to her most beloved female relative, associate, or ________. That's a lot of hate. You see, the thing is, how do you top what someone else took so easily from someone who worked so hard to get less? I can't explain it very well. No, I would not do this stuff, but I sure rolled thoughts of what I would do around in my head. 

If I had the opportunity after R, and never really got satisfaction, I would cheat with whomever I pleased and never give her a reason to believe I was. I'd read how others did it and learn all the how to's. Because, I know she'd do it to me whenever she felt slighted, since there really were no consequences. 

Would it really be reconciliation? I'm not sure any of them are real. I guess some. None that I know(in real life) are better for what they went through. They are more distant, less friendly, more serious. This sort of goes back to the question I quoted, too. Some of this lower part.

I seriously doubt she has given up completely on her AP. One of them was influential in her life and I know he uses married women to relieve his frustrations and perceived failings in relationships with women. Funny to write that, cause he's a womanizer, philanderer, etc., and very good at it. I have a feeling he'll call on her from time to time when he needs serviced and she needs to feel like he loves her. Happens more often than folks think.


----------



## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

It is not possible to get revenge from this matter, only a draw. Sure, you can say "The Hysterical bonding was awesome, especially for a BH" Which it is BTW.. But you are rewarding her with attention, which supersedes a mans physical pleasure for sex. For the months leading dup to the papers being file and the months thereafter me and the STBXW did it every night, and I got to be as dirty and ruthless as I wanted to be without any resistance.......Lord knows I could use a "Fix" right about now.

Anyway, the other "Revenge" aspect is the "Live well" moniker. Well, that is great and all, but it is hard to live well co-parenting with an a55hole who refuses to take blame, upsets you at every turn and god knows what else. Even still, the time spent, your youth as everyday prior to this one was you at a younger age, is for naught over the notion of a new sex partner or "Soul mate". We can never get those years back and who knows who or what we may have encountered during those "Lost" years. And please try to remember, we can have children with any fertile partner, so no need to remind me of this notion about not having our children. We would have anyway, loved them in lieu of whoever gave birth to them and had a happy life with someone special, well, someone not as "Waywardly".....


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

IIJokerII said:


> It is not possible to get revenge from this matter, only a draw. Sure, you can say "The Hysterical bonding was awesome, especially for a BH" Which it is BTW.. But you are rewarding her with attention, which supersedes a mans physical pleasure for sex. *For the months leading dup to the papers being file and the months thereafter me and the STBXW did it every night, and I got to be as dirty and ruthless as I wanted to be without any resistance.......*Lord knows I could use a "Fix" right about now.


So in your case, prior to d-day your sexual relationship was very different than the HB and activities done during HB while you attempted R (or pretended to R)? If she gave things to the OM that you didn't get regularly, but you got what he got and more then I don't know if that would be a revenge so much as an attempt to balance the scales of justice. From what you wrote, you derived no satisfaction from it in the end. Maybe an RA would have given you more satisfaction? IDK. There's probably nothing that could ever make you feel better about it, and the best you can do is to process it and move on over time.

Quick comment to the OP and my first follow up posts. This isn't meant to be exclusively about sex as it pertains to what your WS gave to you vs what he/she gave to an AP. I only meant that as an example since it seems to be a fairly common theme. An EA would be different in that aspect.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Gus, did you expose your wife to her and your family and friends?


----------



## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So in your case, prior to d-day your sexual relationship was very different than the HB and activities done during HB while you attempted R (or pretended to R)? If she gave things to the OM that you didn't get regularly, but you got what he got and more then I don't know if that would be a revenge so much as an attempt to balance the scales of justice. From what you wrote, you derived no satisfaction from it in the end. Maybe an RA would have given you more satisfaction? IDK. There's probably nothing that could ever make you feel better about it, and the best you can do is to process it and move on over time.QUOTE]
> 
> In my case there was no physical OM, an online EA, but as she became more infatuated with him, and then another guy she met, her sexual motivation was with ease. It did not matter if we argued, got angry, had a perceived, a.k.a. false, emotional connection, whatever. We had more sex in 2014 then probably the previous 5 years combined. It was intense as things she did in the past became much more prevalent, but this was to appease her inner "Youthful spirirt" as she became enamored to emulate all those single hard body girls given themselves selfies all day long on FB. The irony is that she would, to most people, not be what one would call a high sex rank. I'd also like to point out that I did not care one bit about her looks. I loved her for her.
> 
> ...


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

the guy said:


> Exposure isn't revenge...its a civic duty warning other of what a POS the AP is.


YES!!!


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Acoa said:


> If it's gotten to the point where the betrayed feels they need to punish the wayward, then the marriage is over. Just stick a fork in it.


Oh I disagree. I think exacting, what some would call, "revenge" in the short term is perfectly fine. Just not in the long term.

And it depends on what one considers "revenge". Revenge for me would be exposure, humiliation(which just comes as a result of exposure), etc.
I also would expect her to lose some freedoms she enjoyed before proving she is a cheat, such as no more GNOs, no partying, no going away with friends without me, etc. And then that wouldn't be "revenge", that would be what is expected of someone that has that now has to prove they are worthy of not being dumped.


Now what bugs me is when someone wants to exact revenge on the OM/OW at an exceeded level than what they'd hand to their spouse who directly betrayed them. Don't get me wrong, anger at the OM/OW is justified, as well as wishing them consequences, but IMO it should never exceed that which someone is willing to dole out to their own spouse.

But back to "punishing" the WS. Are we talking about "consequences"? If so, then why should there be no consequences for the WS? And no, the WS feeling bad about what happened doesn't cut it.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

IIJokerII said:


> It is not possible to get revenge from this matter, only a draw. Sure, you can say "The Hysterical bonding was awesome, especially for a BH" Which it is BTW.. But you are rewarding her with attention, which supersedes a mans physical pleasure for sex. For the months leading dup to the papers being file and the months thereafter me and the STBXW did it every night, and I got to be as dirty and ruthless as I wanted to be without any resistance.......Lord knows I could use a "Fix" right about now.
> 
> Anyway, the other "Revenge" aspect is the "Live well" moniker. Well, that is great and all, but it is hard to live well co-parenting with an a55hole who refuses to take blame, upsets you at every turn and god knows what else. Even still, the time spent, your youth as everyday prior to this one was you at a younger age, is for naught over the notion of a new sex partner or "Soul mate". We can never get those years back and who knows who or what we may have encountered during those "Lost" years. And please try to remember, we can have children with any fertile partner, so no need to remind me of this notion about not having our children. We would have anyway, loved them in lieu of whoever gave birth to them and had a happy life with someone special, well, someone not as "Waywardly".....


Joker, please tell me to knock it off if I say something out of line that does not ring true with your experience. I want to present a different view of the Live Well moniker.

We have no control over anything in life but who we choose to be. We must be given liberties by our state in order to function like a citizen. If we are not, then we may not control if we can obtain a job. We may be thrown into concentration camps in a dictatorship and not have the option to live where we want or in the freedom we want. We may be sentenced to death or just by chance die tomorrow and so we cannot control when our deaths are. We can control the quality of who we are. 

When I was raped I lost a lot. I lost my virginity. In 20 minutes I went from a woman who had never held the hand of a man to sitting in bloody sheets. I lost my virginity. I lost my innocence in how the world works. I lost the connection to my body. I lost the relationships associated with that man. The effects of that one loss kept on rippling out. I could not control that man and his decision and I could not control time to go back to before that moment. 

Long after that moment though, I realized he could never violate one essential part of me. And that was my integrity. That was my mind and my heart. What that consisted of was my choice. And whoever I chose to be may not be applauded and may face more **** for sticking to my beliefs but no one could take that from me. That was my power. That is everyone's power. Many people sell that power out for accolades. But material things and social powers are flighty and dependent on so many factors. They give away the one that they can control.

What you lost was immense and you will continue to feel that loss. It was painful in ways you should never have felt pain.

But you couldn't have changed it and you can't change it now. You only ever had one thing to change in your life and that is who you decide to be. That was the only thing you were born with and the only thing you will die with. Everything else is left up to chance. I don't see live well as, pretend that didn't really hurt and everything will work out if you just believe. I don't know if things will work out, but I will protect that one thing and that is who I decide to be. The man who hurt me can never alter that and can never touch that. Your exWW can never control or touch that as well. 

I won't say don't be bitter or angry either. I think that is actually healthy. What I will warn is it is easy to believe in our bitterness that the other person took control of our self-power. This is a defeating thought and unhealthy. 

She is caught in believing that the only thing she can control won't give her happiness. This is why she chases happiness in other people. She is giving up control of the only thing she truly has. You don't have to.


----------



## 'CuseGal (Feb 5, 2015)

My ex makes so much more money than I do that I could have easily gotten my "pound of flesh" out of him by asking for massive alimony. That's what I think a lot of women do. I didn't because he would have fought it and dragged out the divorce, and I was so done at that point I just wanted it over.

Now he, on the other hand, would have (and did) take the idea literally. Caught his college girlfriend in bed with one of his buddies and beat the crap out of both of them. If I had been older and wiser when I met him, I would have heard this story and run like hell. Especially considering he was proud of it.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Oh I disagree. I think exacting, what some would call, "revenge" in the short term is perfectly fine. Just not in the long term.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is a big difference between revenge and consequences. 

Yes, the WS should suffer the consequences of their actions. This includes exposure. Not exposing is hiding it by omission. The WS doesn't deserve any protection from the embarrassment. If they lose friends, a job or status as a result, too bad. That's a consequence. My ex lost my support, and I live in the house with the kids. She only sees her kids twice a week for dinner now. That's a consequence. 

During R, thinks like no GNOs, no partying and no going away with friends should be a choice the WS makes to protect boundaries and demonstrate they will do anything they can to rebuild trust. So, that's not revenge.

Revenge would be the BS trying to hurt the WS as much as they were hurt. Revenge affair, lying, keeping secrets and trying to make the WS feel they are crazy. If someone feels the need to do this to their spouse they need to end the marriage.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

One of the most difficult parts of my WW affair for me to accept is that nobody gets justice. I called the BW in my WW affair. Her world exploded like mine had and you could hear the pain in sobbing and voice. Who won there? Nobody. Justice cannot be achieved, however revenge can be achieved. I was hard on my WW for several months after d-day but not anywhere near what she did to herself. My WW watched me crash and burn many times, her guilt was off the charts, I couldn't punish her more if I wanted to, her punishment was inflicted by her own self. On several occasions I wanted to go after OM but then realized he is getting his punishment by his self also. A mutual friend had disclosed that OM and his BW are not fairing too well in their marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Acoa said:


> There is a big difference between revenge and consequences.
> 
> Yes, the WS should suffer the consequences of their actions.


Yes, but there are many people on this site who would say holding a WS's feet to the fire and expecting them to suffer consequences is "punishing" them. As if the only one that should suffer pain is the BS.




> During R, thinks like no GNOs, no partying and no going away with friends should be a choice the WS makes to protect boundaries and demonstrate they will do anything they can to rebuild trust. So, that's not revenge.


I agree, and like you said, it should be something the WS does. The BS shouldn't force them to do it. If the WS doesn't want to do it on their own, then they should start looking for some other place to live.




> Revenge would be the BS trying to hurt the WS as much as they were hurt. Revenge affair, lying, keeping secrets and trying to make the WS feel they are crazy. *If someone feels the need to do this to their spouse they need to end the marriage*.


So the WS can hurt the BS and expect to stay in the marriage, but if the BS wants the WS to hurt, then they are the problem?

I agree that true "revenge" isn't something a BS should aspire to do. But I see nothing wrong with a BS wanting the WS to hurt as much as they hurt them. 

How that comes about as to not being "revenge", I don't know. Perhaps those are things that just come naturally in the aftermath and the BS doesn't have to really do anything except remind the WS of boundaries.

Things like a revenge affair just make the BS no better. They are now cheaters then too.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Oh I disagree. I think exacting, what some would call, "revenge" in the short term is perfectly fine. Just not in the long term.
> 
> And it depends on what one considers "revenge". Revenge for me would be exposure, humiliation(which just comes as a result of exposure), etc.
> I also would expect her to lose some freedoms she enjoyed before proving she is a cheat, such as no more GNOs, no partying, no going away with friends without me, etc. And then that wouldn't be "revenge", that would be what is expected of someone that has that now has to prove they are worthy of not being dumped.
> ...


In my mind, what you describe is not revenge so much as justice. Having the WS experience the consequences is not vengeful, it's a measure of justice for the BS. The humiliation a WS would have to go thru to divulge their affair to their blood relatives (assuming the family is a good one) is part of the process to set things right - which is justice. If the WS created the situation, then the WS needs to take the majority of action to make things right. It doesn't mean that the BS is completely absolved of ever making improvements for the betterment of the marriage, but as you pointed out in the short term I would think it's all up to the WS to get the ball rolling.

Regarding the sex issue - since it seems like more times than not the WS is doing more sexually with the AP than ever being done with the BS - having those items excluded from the BS that was freely given to another SHOULD be given freely to the BS. That's at a minimum. On top of that though, I think the WS should be open to sexual exploration to try new things if he/she was a prude prior to DDAY with the assumption that the exploration does not involve a 3rd (or more) parties and/or is not dangerous to anyone's health.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I agree some WS see the consequences and boundaries as revenge.
You are take their cake away so they can't eat it, they see that as revenge.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> In my mind, what you describe is not revenge so much as justice.


Ya, I agree. I just think that the things that could be properly classified as "revenge", ie revenge cheating, just makes them no better than the WS




> Regarding the sex issue - since it seems like more times than not the WS is doing more sexually with the AP than ever being done with the BS - having those items excluded from the BS that was freely given to another SHOULD be given freely to the BS. That's at a minimum.


I agree. Example, swallowing. I'd never expect a woman to do that for me. But if she is into that, great.

Now if I were to take back a cheating spouse and found out she wouldn't do this for me, but did for the OM, THEN I'd expect it.

But there was this conversation brought up in another thread a while back and people came to the defense of the cheater: "HE/SHE shouldn't have to do that for you. "

And when the question was put back to them, "why wouldn't they want to do with the spouse they want to reconcile with, that which they did with OM/OW??"

Then there was crickets.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> A question that I have a hard time relating to since I've not experienced it personally, but why does it seem like the BS typically doesn't try to exact revenge or exact a "punitive damages" for being wronged? I get it that for those who want to reconcile that you cannot be heinous plus even in the case of decency and morals you don't want to become ugly to get some satisfaction.
> 
> I've thought of this before wondering how things would go if I caught my wife having an affair. I know that there is a strong instinct to preserve what you have. But also, there is a strong sense of fairness and justice in all of us.
> 
> ...


I think it would feel like a hollow "victory." Trying to compel someone into doing something they don't want to do, even if they end up doing it, it's not because they want to and I believe that makes a huge difference to a BS.

As for revenge affairs, that just adds more layers to the problems the couple is already struggling with. Maybe it might feel like a hollow victory for a moment, but the lasting effect might be detrimental to the BS who now has to always remember this other person they had sex with. It's not entirely a nice thing to do to the third person either - hey, I'm going to have sex with you just to get revenge on my cheating spouse, good times?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Ya, I agree. I just think that the things that could be properly classified as "revenge", ie revenge cheating, just makes them no better than the WS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's really the crux of it. How can anyone justify a WS not feeling obligated to do a certain sex act on you the BS when he/she freely gave it to someone else? It wasn't a refusal based on a moral objection to the act or because it made the WS feel uncomfortable - that ship would have sailed. Because if the answer is "He/she has a right to withhold that from you because 1) the past is the past and 2) each sexual partner is different, then the ultimate conclusion must be that the WS is not attracted to the BS enough to do that. How someone can take a contrarian view to that conclusion is beyond me.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> I think it would feel like a hollow "victory." Trying to compel someone into doing something they don't want to do, even if they end up doing it, it's not because they want to and I believe that makes a huge difference to a BS.
> 
> As for revenge affairs, that just adds more layers to the problems the couple is already struggling with. Maybe it might feel like a hollow victory for a moment, but the lasting effect might be detrimental to the BS who now has to always remember this other person they had sex with. It's not entirely a nice thing to do to the third person either - hey, I'm going to have sex with you just to get revenge on my cheating spouse, good times?


That's why I titled this thread that way, i.e. the pound of flesh. I agree, it's not what anyone in the situation ultimately wants. However, it may be what a BS needs at that time to heal his/her ego. Not saying it's right or wrong, and the discussion seems to be migrating away from a revenge aspect and into more of a search for justice.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I can only speak for myself. I loved talking with her, spending time, the sex we were having was good and progressing at a pace I was comfortable with, we seemed to give each other what we needed in all things for quite some time. It was a ruse. What I saw was what I wanted to see in part.


My uncle who is/was a country singer/song writer had a friend I had the pleasure of doing a little hanging out with in my earlier years. He wrote this song that guys need to consider in their exploits with women. You need to remember that because you think they're the cat's pajamas, doesn't mean they are totally committed to you. Listen and commit it to your thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaZoKsPAb-0


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

In some ways this is a big reason why I think marriages should end after affairs. To demand from someone sex when you used to make love does not create a healthy relationship if a relationship is to be desired in R. You would want it freely given without demand. But now it is being given out of guilt and punishment. How is love ever supposed to enter back into that arrangement? I don't think asking for your pound of flesh is the answer. I do understand why it would seem to be the correct answer, but I think if one is set on R then working together as a team for that must be the answer. As for how that teamwork is supposed to come about, I agree with the general view on TAM that the WW/WH must be prepared for all questions and fallout for their deeds.

I do agree on consequences, I do agree that they must have their feet to the fire. I do not think coercion of sexual acts is at all appropriate. Their cheating was inappropriate, but if one is to have R, no coercion is to be involved.

If R is not involved, I see no reason to have sex with someone who betrayed you. I know others disagree with this, but I could not allow them close to me again.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> I do agree on consequences, I do agree that they must have their feet to the fire. I do not think coercion of sexual acts is at all appropriate. Their cheating was inappropriate, but if one is to have R, no coercion is to be involved.


And likewise, if there is to be R, then the WS should want to show the BS that they want them every bit as much that they wanted the OM/OW.

No coercion should happen. But what of a WS that refuses to do the things the BS would "like" them to do that they did with the AP? Even if no coercion is involved. What then? The BS just supposed to put up with being 2nd fiddle to the AP?


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I'll plead the 5th. I'm sorry POSOM you were my wife's favorite the voices tell me I'm going to have to suicide you. Oh Chit! You wants some of wife's chicken dinner now!?


----------



## carolinadreams (Nov 30, 2012)

The last thing I wanted was more dysfunctional vagina, after coping with my wife's bad choices. Yeah I could have beaten up a middle aged dude and likely gone to prison for it. 

In my thinking sticking my penis in a woman dysfunctional enough to have sex with me, while I was in the disarray from trying to get my bearings back, from the wife's infidelity just sounded idiotic and repulsive. It wouldn't have been punishment for my wife it would have been punishment for me.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

michzz said:


> I had practically the same conversation with my ex-when i left her.
> 
> Told her she was free to be the wh$re she always wanted to be.
> 
> ...


I think you about maxed out the consequences for your WW - 
(1)Im leaving you and (2) will now and forever think of you as a **$#@@


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

vellocet said:


> And likewise, if there is to be R, then the WS should want to show the BS that they want them every bit as much that they wanted the OM/OW.
> 
> No coercion should happen. But what of a WS that refuses to do the things the BS would "like" them to do that they did with the AP? Even if no coercion is involved. What then? The BS just supposed to put up with being 2nd fiddle to the AP?


Vellocat, I agree with you and I think that refusal would show a lack of commitment and be a warning sign for the BS.

So no coercion, but a mutual understanding of coming back together on both sides if R.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Ya, I agree. I just think that the things that could be properly classified as "revenge", ie revenge cheating, just makes them no better than the WS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They don't desire their spouse the way they did the OM. There is no danger, little lust, and it's like eating leftovers again. There may be some other reasons too. 

Where you and I have always disagreed is on the consequences for the OM/W. They should be very harsh in my opinion, very harsh. He should remember and be affected negatively the rest of his life. This is what he or she helped to sentence the BS with. S/he stepped into a marriage, good or bad, where s/he had no business being, no matter what the excuse, and they are all excuses. Maybe harsh consequences for the OM/W will prevent them from accepting another invitation to have sex with a married person? It certainly will make them think about it.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> They don't desire their spouse the way they did the OM. There is no danger, little lust, and it's like eating leftovers again. There may be some other reasons too.
> 
> Where you and I have always disagreed is on the consequences for the OM/W. They should be very harsh in my opinion, very harsh. He should remember and be affected negatively the rest of his life. This is what he or she helped to sentence the BS with. S/he stepped into a marriage, good or bad, where s/he had no business being, no matter what the excuse, and they are all excuses. Maybe harsh consequences for the OM/W will prevent them from accepting another invitation to have sex with a married person? It certainly will make them think about it.


I'm with you there bro. I am absolutely about the destruction of the POS!&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> They don't desire their spouse the way they did the OM. There is no danger, little lust, and it's like eating leftovers again. There may be some other reasons too.
> 
> Where you and I have always disagreed is on the consequences for the OM/W. They should be very harsh in my opinion, very harsh. He should remember and be affected negatively the rest of his life. This is what he or she helped to sentence the BS with. S/he stepped into a marriage, good or bad, where s/he had no business being, no matter what the excuse, and they are all excuses. Maybe harsh consequences for the OM/W will prevent them from accepting another invitation to have sex with a married person? It certainly will make them think about it.


Many WS can and do lie about their marital status to their AP. You then take your revenge against him/her, and the find out the truth, what then? How do YOU make restitution?

If you want revenge, then seek it on your cheating spouse, who knew very well what he/she was doing when he/she started an affair.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> Many WS can and do lie about their marital status to their AP. You then take your revenge against him/her, and the find out the truth, what then? How do YOU make restitution?
> 
> If you want revenge, then seek it on your cheating spouse, who knew very well what he/she was doing when he/she started an affair.


I wasn't thinking of leaving the cheating spouse out of it. There are two problems. One is the cheating spouse and the other is the OM/W.

Do you know how that reads to me? Just another excuse for me to dismiss. Feel bad, me, for what? Me make restitution for someone not making sure the person they slept with wasn't married? Maybe some time spent and some truth expected in conversation, without flirting, would clear that up? Did they ask if their was any chance of std's or did they figure a rubber would take care of that? Most don't use a rubber, though...or so I've read. 

Any more excuses?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> They don't desire their spouse the way they did the OM.


Then there would be absolutely no reason to keep her.



> Where you and I have always disagreed is on the consequences for the OM/W. They should be very harsh in my opinion, very harsh.


Oh, you and I are in agreement there. I just don't think the consequences for the OM/OW should be MORE severe than that of the WS.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

vellocet said:


> I just don't think the consequences for the OM/OW should be MORE severe than that of the WS.


What kinds of consequences would you seek to mete out for a WS? And would that list change at all were you to opt for reconciliation?

What about OM/OW?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> What kinds of consequences would you seek to mete out for a WS? And would that list change at all were you to opt for reconciliation?
> 
> What about OM/OW?


For example, if my consequence for my x-wife, had I not divorced her, is she loses the privilege of a trusting husband and therefore things like going out for drinks, GNO's, etc, would now be over.
Maybe a little public embarrassment would be in order, not sure what form that would take, but just thinking here.
Another consequence would be that "privacy" is no longer a luxury for her.

Now, if that would be the type of consequences for her, then beating the hell out of the OM would be more severe. So for OM, rat him out to his wife, if he has one, exposure for the slime he is to everyone he knows, etc.

I just don't get why someone would want to treat a WS with kids gloves basically, but want to beat the life out of the OP.
And if you wouldn't beat your spouse, then you shouldn't ought to want to beat the OP. That kind of anger, IMO, is just misdirected. Anger towards the OP is absolutely justified, as well as some type of revenge. But no more at the level of what the WS should get.

But alas, I divorced my wife. The consequences for the both of them are they got each other. His consequence is he couldn't trust her, as if he couldn't have already figured that one out, and her consequence is as a result of him not trusting her, he controls her every move. They are both in hell, but married now.

So Gus I guess what I'm trying to say is, enact consequences for both the WS and the AP, just leave beating anyone's ass out of it. Because if you wouldn't beat your WS, then you shouldn't want to beat the OP, for they aren't the one's that directly betrayed you.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if you read the book.......you realize you can't take only a pound of flesh and trying to do so you will end up taking blood with it.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I think too many think of eye for an eye. Revenge affairs. There are other ways…

You can get your pound of flesh in reconciliation depending on how you look at it. It’s that remorse thing that’s necessary for a reconciliation to even have a shot. They had the affairs, it broke you and how you see them. Having them live with the consequences of knowing they did this to you, whom they love, for very selfish reasons; extolls a lot of flesh. If there’s the divorce, you miss this phase because they’ll distance from you emotionally. But within a marriage when there’s remorse, they get to see it daily and become reminded. What did she really ‘win’? A broken relationship and kids that she sees a lot of her unhealthy self in because she taught them to be “strong” (her bastardized interpretation of selfishly taking whatever you want just because you feel owed it).

In a lot of ways, it’s harder for the wayward.. At least as the BS, I don’t have to look in the mirror every day and know I did this. My WW does. She can’t blame me, the OM, or anyone else no matter how hard she tries; And we’re right there crippled and hobbling in front of her to remind her of the lessons she handed us. Me, triggering, untrusting, etc. I see her cringe with the “I deserve..” statements from the kids over the smallest petty stuff they think they are somehow owed because we love them. 

Basically, she’s forced to live in the rubble of the very house she burnt down or flee. Build all she wants, but she remembers the house that she lost and the lessons she taught us all. And there is no “undo” button. All she can try to do is teach new things and relive the past as the example of what happens when you start thinking ‘this way’. Seriously, it got so bad and she felt her hole was so deep and unfixable, that she became quite suicidal. No way out, no way to avoid seeing all the hurt she caused. I got more than my two pounds of flesh in R.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> if you read the book.......you realize you can't take only a pound of flesh and trying to do so you will end up taking blood with it.


The pound of flesh was never to be the real payment. It was supposed to be a deterrent to not delivering on what was supposed to be the true objective. So in this thread, if the thing that was truly valued, a strong, monogamous marriage, was taken away from the BS then the next best thing he/she may have left is to take payment in the terms of a "pound of flesh".


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Racer said:


> In a lot of ways, it’s harder for the wayward.. At least as the BS, I don’t have to look in the mirror every day and know I did this. My WW does. She can’t blame me, the OM, or anyone else no matter how hard she tries; And we’re right there crippled and hobbling in front of her to remind her of the lessons she handed us. Me, triggering, untrusting, etc. I see her cringe with the “I deserve..” statements from the kids over the smallest petty stuff they think they are somehow owed because we love them.
> 
> Basically, she’s forced to live in the rubble of the very house she burnt down or flee. Build all she wants, but she remembers the house that she lost and the lessons she taught us all. And there is no “undo” button. All she can try to do is teach new things and relive the past as the example of what happens when you start thinking ‘this way’. Seriously, it got so bad and she felt her hole was so deep and unfixable, that she became quite suicidal. No way out, no way to avoid seeing all the hurt she caused. I got more than my two pounds of flesh in R.


I always think that the person who causes the misery in the end is the one who looses the most. Yes, even the worst of humanity.

Edited for the fact that I am not saying your wife or even cheaters are the worst of humanity. I meant severely violent crimes and such. Yes, even in those situations I think the perpetrators of those crimes lose out the most. Perhaps not societally, but their humanity.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I think the cheated on should note two things. people of dissimilar character do nOT tend to associate. e.g. if the OM is a POS what does that say about the WW? also the 'consequences discussion reminds me of discussions on how to punish a U.S. President for violating the Constitution. anything short of impeachment and removal justy does not really seem adequate, even though those are difficult actions for Congress to follow through on politically. so my imprtession goes on divorce-free (especially separation-free) consequences for the WW or WH. what other to0ugh measures are there.....really?


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> My uncle who is/was a country singer/song writer had a friend I had the pleasure of doing a little hanging out with in my earlier years. He wrote this song that guys need to consider in their exploits with women. You need to remember that because you think they're the cat's pajamas, doesn't mean they are totally committed to you. Listen and commit it to your thinking.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaZoKsPAb-0


Thank you. I don't disagree, but don't marry me and then decide you were always an overnight sensation. At forty, you'd think she had that figured out. While typing that, I looked at the age and it hit me. Still, that's no excuse for any of what happened.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Racer said:


> I think too many think of eye for an eye. Revenge affairs. There are other ways…
> 
> You can get your pound of flesh in reconciliation depending on how you look at it. It’s that remorse thing that’s necessary for a reconciliation to even have a shot. They had the affairs, it broke you and how you see them. Having them live with the consequences of knowing they did this to you, whom they love, for very selfish reasons; extolls a lot of flesh. If there’s the divorce, you miss this phase because they’ll distance from you emotionally. But within a marriage when there’s remorse, they get to see it daily and become reminded. What did she really ‘win’? A broken relationship and kids that she sees a lot of her unhealthy self in because she taught them to be “strong” (her bastardized interpretation of selfishly taking whatever you want just because you feel owed it).
> 
> ...


I can't seem to understand how she was forced to do anything?


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I think the cheated on should note two things. people of dissimilar character do nOT tend to associate. e.g. if the OM is a POS what does that say about the WW? also the 'consequences discussion reminds me of discussions on how to punish a U.S. President for violating the Constitution. anything short of impeachment and removal justy does not really seem adequate, even though those are difficult actions for Congress to follow through on politically. so my imprtession goes on divorce-free (especially separation-free) consequences for the WW or WH. what other to0ugh measures are there.....really?


Any legal means available would seem appropriate. Doesn't South Africa have some sort of laws about infidelity and the responsibility of the OM? I'd swear I read something about them and a few other countries. Some were a bit extreme and some were quite reasonable, it seemed. Look at the expense of either divorce or reconciliation. Legal fees, counseling and prescription expenses, moving expenses, filing fees, time missed from work and the ensuing time wasted at work until the employee is able to work at full capacity. The economy takes a hit because you two could be spending money fixing the house or going on vacation, buy a car or a pool, etc. 

Instead, you pay just a few people who we really don't want to pay. Sure, they are needed, but wouldn't you rather pay a lawyer for setting up a will, protecting investments, or almost anything else? Don't you think the OM/W should share in some of the cost of the divorce or reconciliation? I think they should share in about 33.3333% of all expenses and have to contribute to the care of the children of the married parents whom they had a part in splitting up. Listen, if you can get a life sentence for doing something three times, when you consider the number of innocent people infidelity impacts, including parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, church collections where applicable, the strength of the community in which you lived, and many more things, you certainly should be able to legally find a way to make consequences for the OM/W. 

Your children should have to be helped out, through payments from the OM/W. Calculations could easily be made that showed the loss in income due to divorce and part of that can be added to the responsibility of the OM/W. They have no responsibility right now, and all the benefits. Most, when the fun and excitement of sneaking around and taking something they aren't supposed to have is gone, they lose interest. The damage is done, though.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Do you know how that reads to me? Just another excuse for me to dismiss. Feel bad, me, for what? Me make restitution for someone not making sure the person they slept with wasn't married? Maybe some time spent and some truth expected in conversation, without flirting, would clear that up? Did they ask if their was any chance of std's or did they figure a rubber would take care of that? Most don't use a rubber, though...or so I've read.
> 
> Any more excuses?


Yeah here's one. Do you homework first and make absolutely damn sure that before you give out justice, you have all the facts. Otherwise there won't be an excuse of your own if you fvck up.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> Yeah here's one. Do you homework first and make absolutely damn sure that before you give out justice, you have all the facts. Otherwise there won't be an excuse of your own if you fvck up.


All of what facts? Who pursued who? That's subjective. Who do you want to believe? Seems like the OM/W. Usually, but not always, there are two involved in the infidelity, and one of them is not married to the other, but at least one is married to someone else. If one, just one of them says no, it doesn't happen. I still don't see how anything else matters, and I've read plenty of scenarios which seem to try to make folks feel bad for the WS and imply innocence and even courage or heroics in the AP. I don't agree under any circumstances.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> All of what facts? Who pursued who? That's subjective. Who do you want to believe? Seems like the OM/W. Usually, but not always, there are two involved in the infidelity, and one of them is not married to the other, but at least one is married to someone else. If one, just one of them says no, it doesn't happen. I still don't see how anything else matters, and I've read plenty of scenarios which seem to try to make folks feel bad for the WS and imply innocence and even courage or heroics in the AP. I don't agree under any circumstances.


You want to impart justice against OM/OW? I have no problem with that as long as you have all the facts including that they knew for sure that they were screwing a married person. That's all.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> You want to impart justice against OM/OW? I have no problem with that as long as you have all the facts including that they knew for sure that they were screwing a married person. That's all.


Whether it's a crime or not, I have to go with "ignorance of the law is no defense". It's pretty simple. I just don't have sympathy for them. They deserve consequences. Most drunk drivers don't mean to kill anyone.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Whether it's a crime or not, I have to go with "ignorance of the law is no defense". It's pretty simple. I just don't have sympathy for them. They deserve consequences. Most drunk drivers don't mean to kill anyone.



From *Ignorance of the Law Is No Excuse, But It Is Reality*



> The idea that ignorance of the law is no excuse is captured today in the doctrine of “scienter.” In general, an individual can be guilty of a criminal act only if he acts with a criminal intent, or scienter, to accomplish a criminal purpose. *Under most statutes, to win a conviction, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted “knowingly*


Look let's just be honest with ourselves and say "I don't give a flying fvck whether he/she knew that he/she was married or not. I just want to bust someone's head open" and not hide under excuses of our own.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Oh, you and I are in agreement there. I just don't think the consequences for the OM/OW should be MORE severe than that of the WS.


Why? I mean why should you abide by some kind of rules in this?

I'm not the guardian of the cosmological balance of justice, I'm doing something (giving out punishment, possibly without breaking any law) intended to make ME feel better.
If punishing my WS would do nothing for me, but punishing the AP would make me feel better, why should I refrain to do the second because I don't want to do the first?


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Funny how laws,morals, and fairness always come into the discussion when we talk about how the BS should behave.


----------



## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

Forest said:


> Funny how laws,morals, and fairness always come into the discussion when we talk about how the BS should behave.


******************************************************
I agree.....My WW lied,deceived and betrayed me...She did sex acts with her Boss/OM she said to me for 22 years were Disgusting...But she did them with him...and if anyone thinks they are going to suggest how i should act after 2 people destroyed my life as I knew it..you are out of your fu%king mind...

I outed the OM to his wife...I filed a lawsuit against their company and had them fired ...I showed pics of my wife have sex with the other man to her family..( at their request)...His wife destroyed him in his divorce..

I simply napalmed everything and everyone involved...Right..Im not sure ...Wrong ..maybe..But it was da*n effective..and I have never triggered and never had a second thought about filing for D.....

P.S.From my understanding" The OM" will not speak to her........Enjoy your life...


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Forest said:


> Funny how laws,morals, and fairness always come into the discussion when we talk about how the BS should behave.


:iagree:


----------



## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

This thread is unbelievable. "Taking your pound of flesh"? Seriously? Total lack of respect for the women in your lives and for women in general.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Pooh Bear said:


> This thread is unbelievable. "Taking your pound of flesh"? Seriously? Total lack of respect for the women in your lives and for women in general.


First off, this thread was meant to be gender neutral, but I admit when I give examples I tend to use a WW since I'm a guy. I try my best to use WS in these types of scenarios, but sometimes I fail at that.

The point of the thread is to talk about to what extent a BS should seek out justice - or revenge. Within the marriage, the "pound of flesh" is a price that no one want to take. I bet 100 out of 100 people would prefer a strong marriage with zero infidelity - should be obvious. But what if you were robbed of that? As a BS, what is your recourse? To forgive and forget? Or should you try to collect a certain amount of payment, i.e. a "pound of flesh" as compensation for your life being ruined by your WS? Alternatively, you can offer full forgiveness and move on from that point.

That's the premise of the thread.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> This thread is unbelievable. "Taking your pound of flesh"? Seriously? Total lack of respect for the women in your lives and for women in general.


I don't mean to be disrespectful, but why do you say so?
I'm not from an English speaking country and I found this definition of the idiom:

**pound of flesh

Fig. a payment or punishment that involves suffering and sacrifice on the part of the person being punished. (*Typically: give someone ~; owe someone ~; pay someone ~; take ~.) He wants revenge. He won't be satisfied until he takes his pound of flesh.*

How would it be disrespectful of women?


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

italianjob said:


> I don't mean to be disrespectful, but why do you say so?
> I'm not from an English speaking country and I found this definition of the idiom:
> 
> **pound of flesh
> ...


I think it's because there was some talk of forcing WW to perform sexual acts on command as one potential way to take revenge.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

norajane said:


> I think it's because there was some talk of forcing WW to perform sexual acts on command as one potential way to take revenge.


Ah, ok, thank you 

I thought they were talking about the title.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> I think it's because there was some talk of forcing WW to perform sexual acts on command as one potential way to take revenge.


Are you referring to the OP or something else written in the thread - or both? In the OP, if it's the sentence about wanting oral, multiple positions and anal, that was a for example sentence to start the discussions off.

Unless I missed something, I thought the sex acts discussion was predominantly about circumstances where a WS happily gives sex acts to an AP that he/she refused to do for the BS during the course of the marriage. Stating that one condition of R would be that everything given freely to the AP should be fair game for the BS is fair and just in my opinion.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

norajane said:


> I think it's because there was some talk of forcing WW to perform sexual acts on command as one potential way to take revenge.


There was a lot more about wives who were uptight with their husband, but let the freak flag fly with OMs. 

Do you not get why that would be both humiliating and infuriating for a BH? And further, that it would be reasonable that if they do reconcile, she should no longer deny her husband sexual activities that she had no reservations about sharing with the OM?

I'll further argue with the term "forcing." Forcing is rape. They are talking about making it terms of reconciliation. She ALWAYS retains the right to walk away if she doesn't like the terms. Force is pretty much the opposite of free will.

Edit to add - I see Plan 9 made exactly the same point.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> I can't seem to understand how she was forced to do anything?


She or he will never be able to take away what they have done. They cannot reverse time to undo it and it will always be a part of who they are and how they have decided to impact the world.

They may not be forced into any physical/financial/acceptance.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Forest said:


> Funny how laws,morals, and fairness always come into the discussion when we talk about how the BS should behave.


Because we follow them as we have morals, laws and a sense of fairness. Do not give up that part of yourself because someone else did. That is far more important.

Some people will abuse you with it. The WS will probably do so in order to not face consequences. That is to be ignored. But do not give up your integrity because they gave up theirs.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Pooh Bear said:


> This thread is unbelievable. "Taking your pound of flesh"? Seriously? Total lack of respect for the women in your lives and for women in general.


Oh, I see now. You don't understand the purpose of the thread. Its not about "taking your pound of flesh" physically and from a woman.

Its about getting even with someone that has betrayed you, whether its a wayward wife OR a husband. A man, or a woman.

Where did you get the idea this was about "taking your pound of flesh" from women only??


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

norajane said:


> I think it's because there was some talk of forcing WW to perform sexual acts on command as one potential way to take revenge.


Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone was talking about "forcing". But rather would expect it. Or for me, if I had a WS, I'd think they would want to do the same things with me if she was attracted to me and wanted me. If not, why is she still there?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

italianjob said:


> Ah, ok, thank you
> 
> I thought they were talking about the title.


She was talking about the title. She referenced the title, nothing else.

If there was a specific post she felt was advocating abuse, then reference THAT. And I'd also respond in kind if they were advocating abuse.

But she was referring to the thread as a whole. One person that may have advocated abuse, is not the fault of the OP and the entire thread.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

vellocet said:


> She was talking about the title. She referenced the title, nothing else.
> 
> If there was a specific post she felt was advocating abuse, then reference THAT. And I'd also respond in kind if they were advocating abuse.
> 
> But she was referring to the thread as a whole. One person that may have advocated abuse, is not the fault of the OP and the entire thread.


I was really kind of confused, because I wasn't familiar with the expression and had looked it up a few hours earlier.

Now, I must confess my head is spinning a little... :scratchhead:


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

italianjob said:


> I was really kind of confused, because I wasn't familiar with the expression and had looked it up a few hours earlier.
> 
> Now, I must confess my head is spinning a little... :scratchhead:


Well if it helps you understand, she is in the "Have you ever beat up your boyfriend" thread and dances around calling out a woman that would beat a man, and puts the responsibility of being the bigger person on the men if some woman sees fit to physically assault their bf/husband


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

So if a Betrayed spouse (BS) went straight to D, would this be unfair, immoral? 
Because some wayward spouses (WS) see this as a betrayed spouse (BS) getting there pound of flesh through divorce and exposure.
which I don't agree with.
essentially the BS forcing the WS to Divorce because of infidelity. 

I see divorce as a right of the BS and probably/maybe in most cases the best choice.


----------



## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Well if it helps you understand, she is in the "Have you ever beat up your boyfriend" thread and dances around calling out a woman that would beat a man, and puts the responsibility of being the bigger person on the men if some woman sees fit to physically assault their bf/husband


Thanks, that kind of character, got it


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

convert said:


> So if a Betrayed spouse (BS) went straight to D, would this be unfair, immoral?


Absolutely not.




> Because some wayward spouses (WS) see this as a betrayed spouse (BS) getting there pound of flesh through divorce and exposure.


Tough sh*t


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Lila said:


> Here are the two comments that caught my eye right away....
> 
> "For example, in a situation where the wife betrays a husband, and the husband finds out that while he was getting plain missionary sex, his wife was doing multiple positions plus giving the OM oral, *do people think it would be wrong to require the WW to do multiple positions, give oral AND throw in anal on top of it because of the pain of betrayal*?"​




Would it be wrong to "require" particular acts? Yes. You don't "require" anyone to do anything of a specific nature like that. The only things I do not think it is wrong to "require" of a spouse is to act like a spouse. "Require" them, if they have proven themselves untrustworthy, to no longer go out partying, drinking, or whatever activity it was that made it easier for them to cheat.

But "require" things like certain sex acts, yes, that is wrong.

Now, if I had someone that had cheated and did things with an OM that she never did with me, and I stayed with her, I'd "expect" her to want to do those things with me.
If she didn't want to, then obviously I'm chopped liver in comparison to the OM and the marriage/relationship just needs to end.



> but I do strongly believe that exerting punitive damages, such as the above, will never result in a successful reconciliation.


I absolutely agree. Can't do that if one is wanting to R.

But then how fair is it that the BS is the only one to suffer any real pain about the situation? Ya I know, the WS suffers too...guilt, yadda yadda. Bullsnot. Not anywhere NEAR the level of the BS. So while punitive damages, other than the WS losing some freedoms, is not something a BS should aspire to do, how fair is it that the BS is the one that gets to suffer with no way of the WS suffering the same pain? This is why I don't believe in taking back a cheater.​


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Would it be wrong to "require" particular acts? Yes. You don't "require" anyone to do anything of a specific nature like that. The only things I do not think it is wrong to "require" of a spouse is to act like a spouse. "Require" them, if they have proven themselves untrustworthy, to no longer go out partying, drinking, or whatever activity it was that made it easier for them to cheat.
> 
> But "require" things like certain sex acts, yes, that is wrong.
> 
> ...


I agree

Or the *ultimate pound of flesh* would be to DIVORCE


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

as I tried to say in an earlier post , some wayward spouses do NOT want to divorce, they want to R and try and work it out.
and if the BS can't or won't then D would seem to be unfair, vindictive and cruel and IT IS NOT.

Or what if the BS put on the table some requirements/expectations to R and if not then D.
What is unfair and immoral and cruel here?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> The bolded statement may seem fair but the way you described it in your earlier posts seemed to imply that punitive damages include those sex acts above and beyond which the WS gave to her AP.
> 
> Here are the two comments that caught my eye right away....
> 
> ...


The first statement you reference was in the OP and was primarily an example I pulled out for discussion purposes. It's not applicable to me - just an example.

The 2nd statement you reference where I said the WS should also be open to exploring additional things was not meant to be punitive in nature. Within the context of what we were discussing about a WS withholding activities with a BS but gives other things freely to an AP, I would think that not only should the WS be open to providing things done for an AP to the BS but be open to exploring other things too that were off limits to the BS should be viable. My thinking along these lines is not to punish the WS but to be something that 2 spouses can do together. In a healthy marriage, a couple wants to explore things with each other. I don't mean things like anal, S&M, golden showers, scat and introducing new people into the bedroom - things that could be unsafe to you and/or the marriage. I'd say things maybe like wearing lingerie if not done before, trying a new sex position, light bondage, sex in a car, etc... Things that almost all of us have played around with as a healthy couple that were normally denied to a BS by his/her WS.

ETA: Anal is one of those weird ones. It's not as taboo as other things like scat, whips/chains and gangbangs, and a number of couples engage in anal sex, but I can see this being unsafe if a partner is suffering from some medical issue in that area, or has never, ever, ever engaged in it prior and is a huge anxiety to him/her if they were to engage in that practice.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Lila said:


> I agree, "In a Healthy Marriage" couples do explore things with each other, however I think we can all agree that people working through infidelity issues are not in any way, shape, or form in a healthy marriage.
> 
> Sexual exploration should not be a *demand* for reconciliation. Instead, it should be a goal of a successful reconciliation.


Plan9 has not used the word demand
and to achieve a goal you have expectation so either the BS or WS are going to have expectations for a successful R and for a successful R This would seem reasonable.
although I expected my spouse not to cheat and i guess that was unreasonable.

and if either spouse saw that these expectations were unreasonable then D would be the only option


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> I agree, "In a Healthy Marriage" couples do explore things with each other, however I think we can all agree that people working through infidelity issues are not in any way, shape, or form in a healthy marriage.
> 
> Sexual exploration should not be a demand for reconciliation. Instead, it should be a goal of a successful reconciliation.


The goal of R is to not only deal with the infidelity but to also build a healthy marriage. You don't R with the intention to tolerate a broken marriage. And if you do go to R and your WS still will not be more open to you when it comes to intimacy, then your goal has not been met. If the goal is not achieved, then R is a failure. It seems like this is more of a semantics issue as opposed to a fundamental disagreement - at least that's what it looks like to me.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The goal of R is to not only deal with the infidelity but to also build a healthy marriage. You don't R with the intention to tolerate a broken marriage. And if you do go to R and your WS still will not be more open to you when it comes to intimacy, then your goal has not been met. If the goal is not achieved, then R is a failure. It seems like this is more of a semantics issue as opposed to a fundamental disagreement - at least that's what it looks like to me.


:iagree:


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> Because we follow them as we have morals, laws and a sense of fairness. Do not give up that part of yourself because someone else did. That is far more important.
> 
> Some people will abuse you with it. The WS will probably do so in order to not face consequences. That is to be ignored. But do not give up your integrity because they gave up theirs.


You're a good person.

But dang, you're cramping my revenge fun.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Forest said:


> You're a good person.
> 
> But dang, you're cramping my revenge fun.



Hahahahaha.

Now I am going to let you in on a secret. 

I think ripping that person apart with your friends is the best thing you can do. Let those fantasies in your head go crazy. I don't think that our violent impulses are bad and in fact are quite healthy. To me, it's just information.

Someone hurt you. You get pissed the **** off.

If you didn't, something's broken.

I also think there is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction with seeing the perp face their consequences. That's also a healthy reaction.

I just write what I do because the truly important person is you and not the other. We can get all the smug satisfaction in our life, but we don't have to get it by putting the other person in the driver's seat. That's why I recommend on focusing on our own power even though it is limited in a lot of ways (socially, politically, situationally).


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Pooh Bear said:


> This thread is unbelievable. "Taking your pound of flesh"? Seriously? Total lack of respect for the women in your lives and for women in general.


So you would have no qualms if the genders were reversed?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> I made an error in my word usage on my last post. It should have read
> 
> "it should be a result of a successful reconciliation"
> ----------------------------
> ...


I agree with your assessment about the idea that reconciliation is a process that won't happen overnight. To eat an elephant, it takes 1 bite at a time.

But the bolded part is different from what we were discussing. Within the context of what was discussed, the WS was NOT a vanilla spouse. The discussion was about a WS who gives the BS bland sex but gives the AP more exotic and wild sex. What you wrote about is different, that the WS was always bland in bed (regardless of who the partner was) and the BS is using the affair as an opportunity to force the spouse to be something he/she is not.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

convert said:


> I agree
> 
> Or the *ultimate pound of flesh* would be to DIVORCE


Well, divorcing my wife wasn't exactly revenge or a pound of flesh, because she was free to pursue the OM.

The pound of flesh comes in the form of this OM, now her husband, controls her every move because he can't trust her.

She is in hell. My pound of flesh has been exacted without me having to do anything.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

vellocet said:


> Well, divorcing my wife wasn't exactly revenge or a pound of flesh, because she was free to pursue the OM.
> 
> The pound of flesh comes in the form of this OM, now her husband, controls her every move because he can't trust her.
> 
> She is in hell. My pound of flesh has been exacted without me having to do anything.


Of course he can't trust her. He knows as much as anyone that she's a cheater. On a personal note, if you ever want to beat him within an inch of his life give me a call and I'll hold his arms back for you.


----------



## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> Of course he can't trust her. He knows as much as anyone that she's a cheater. On a personal note, if you ever want to beat him within an inch of his life give me a call and I'll hold his arms back for you.


Me too, but forgive me if I slip and my elbow hits his face 3-4 times.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> Of course he can't trust her. He knows as much as anyone that she's a cheater. On a personal note, if you ever want to beat him within an inch of his life give me a call and I'll hold his arms back for you.


Nah, if I wouldn't have wanted to beat my wife, I saw no reason to beat him. As I've said time and time again, the consequences for him should not exceed, in severity, those for her.

But thanks for the offer 

Actually, when it all went down and my divorce was final, I seriously thought about sending him a bottle of scotch to thank him for taking her off my hands.


----------



## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Maybe revenge is not the right approach, but how about something to at least attempt to give the BS some kind of justice? Though as of now I still think a revenge affair is something that should not be taken off the table. Not to say it should happen, but should remain a viable option that the WS should be open to approving as a condition of reconciliation.


Maybe guys with your mind set let their spouses know from the beginning that cheating will lead to serious repercussions. Not everyone thinks like us. 

In my opinion, it's hard for a woman to disappear and cheat for months while the man is totally trusting and oblivious. I mean, I am guilty of trusting and being obvious myself, so an EA would be possible, but something physical? I don't know. I read stories about the wife leaving for weekends because of her employment, traveling a lot, hanging out with personal trainers, ladies nights, etc. That husband is a better man than I will ever be...a different kind of man than me. Maybe the kind of man that wouldn't want reverse or retribution???

Me and my wife are best friends and if she went on any business trip, or had a job that required her gone, I'd be unemployed and traveling with her. Whether it's jealousy, control, whatever, I like to know whats going on in my life (which is how I view my relationship).


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

vellocet said:


> Well, divorcing my wife wasn't exactly revenge or a pound of flesh, because she was free to pursue the OM.
> 
> The pound of flesh comes in the form of this OM, now her husband, controls her every move because he can't trust her.
> 
> She is in hell. My pound of flesh has been exacted without me having to do anything.


Yes!! Oh the irony. I love this type of unhappy endings for the WS. It's poetic justice.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> Yes!! Oh the irony. I love this type of unhappy endings for the WS. It's poetic justice.


From my situation the last I heard from OMW about OM is that he's a broken man. She took everything. He lives back at his mom's house and he's in his late 40's. No job, no prospects, no woman.

Do I enjoy that his life is ruined? Oh yeah. He cheated on the wrong woman. She's very good at revenge. Much better than I am. Of course, she hates my wife almost as much as she hates her ex. She's the one who blasted an email to my wife's company and told them that their director of Finance is a dirty wh0re who cheats with a friend's husband and destroys a family with children. Needless to say, my wife resigned her position a few days later.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

KingwoodKev said:


> From my situation the last I heard from OMW about OM is that he's a broken man. She took everything. He lives back at his mom's house and he's in his late 40's. No job, no prospects, no woman.
> 
> Do I enjoy that his life is ruined? Oh yeah. He cheated on the wrong woman. She's very good at revenge. Much better than I am. Of course, she hates my wife almost as much as she hates her ex. She's the one who blasted an email to my wife's company and told them that their director of Finance is a dirty wh0re who cheats with a friend's husband and destroys a family with children. Needless to say, my wife resigned her position a few days later.



Stop it! Please! I'm going to have multiple doggasms


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> Stop it! Please! I'm going to have multiple doggasms


Definitely handled very fvcking well by omw. She is a hero! &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm sorry, but while my judgment of issues isn't black and white, my justice for those issues is. In other words, if you do wrong, I believe that you need to pay for it. Whether that payment happens naturally, by the hand of an angry spouse in the case of infidelity, or both, it doesn't matter to me. You break it (the marriage), you bought yourself a world of pain.

I for one believe that a husband or wife should have every legal right to not only beat the living daylights out of the OM/OW, but to take monetary compensation from them as well. Infidelity just isn't viewed as the serious matter it really is by too many people. There need to be real and quantifiable circumstances imposed upon those who violate these things. To illustrate how backwards society is on this issue, I, and I'd wager most people, believe that infidelity is a far worse situation to be put in than having my favorite car stolen, chopped up and sold. Yet the person who caused me far less pain (the car thief) in this instance is the one in jail, while the person who was a party to my now ruined marriage gets to go on as if nothing happened other than a toss in the hay with a beautiful woman.

This brings me to the WS. Yes they should pay too, regardless R or D. R makes it tricky, but they definitely need to be allowed to suffer consequences. If D, then you have some more freedom. Any way you look at it this is a tricky situation, because you often have a continued relationship through children etc.

As for "living well is the best revenge" and the whole "revenge is you allowing them to control you" crap. Why can't I live well AND have revenge? There's nothing I can see that makes the two mutually exclusive. If I go out and take back lost power by exacting revenge on the POSOM, what about that excludes me from then going on feeling good about myself and living well? Further, the revenge is MY CHOICE. Therefore the revenge is of my own volition, not because of the OM's control, and it's not some arbitrary mental gymnastics designed to manipulate me into not doing what my heart and mind tell me to do. I say revenge is the best revenge.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Definitely handled very fvcking well by omw. She is a hero! ��������
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hate saying this but many times the BWs have more [email protected] than the BHs. We need more of these women to show men how to grow a pair.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

convert said:


> as I tried to say in an earlier post , some wayward spouses do NOT want to divorce, they want to R and try and work it out.
> and if the BS can't or won't then D would seem to be unfair, vindictive and cruel and IT IS NOT.


Actually, it wouldn't be infidelity if they didn't want to stay married to you. That's something many BS's fail to recognize; Short of an exit affair, no matter how much of a villain they claim you are, *they did not file for divorce*.

As for the sexual acts and forcing in general... it's not truly forced, just a condition: You can stay married to me IF I can feel I am worth more than anything you gave so freely to the OP, *OR* you can face divorce *OR* you can push it further and deny me to see how much of a big deal it is with me assuming a risk because who really knows how much I can tolerate before I toss in that towel. The wayward does have a choice; only one offers a higher probability the marriage might survive.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Definitely handled very fvcking well by omw. She is a hero! ��������
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's the epitome of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. She and I spent a lot of time together comparing notes and piecing things together as we were both being TT'd by our cheating spouses. She was way more hardcore about it. She destroyed my wife's career. At the time I was thrilled about that. She destroyed her cheating husband's career. I'm still thrilled about that. She's actually a very smart and very nice lady. She deserved better. So did I. An unfortunate development since me announcing that I'm beginning R with my FWW, is that this woman has now cut off all contact with me. She called me a stupid sap and said good luck when your wife finds the next married man to fvck.

I really hope she can get help for her rage. I've been there and it eats you alive. I still have bouts of it. Especially here when WS's have the nerve to show up and post.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Retribution said:


> I'm sorry, but while my judgment of issues isn't black and white, my justice for those issues is. In other words, if you do wrong, I believe that you need to pay for it. Whether that payment happens naturally, by the hand of an angry spouse in the case of infidelity, or both, it doesn't matter to me. You break it (the marriage), you bought yourself a world of pain.
> 
> I for one believe that a husband or wife should have every legal right to not only beat the living daylights out of the OM/OW, but to take monetary compensation from them as well. Infidelity just isn't viewed as the serious matter it really is by too many people. There need to be real and quantifiable circumstances imposed upon those who violate these things. To illustrate how backwards society is on this issue, I, and I'd wager most people, believe that infidelity is a far worse situation to be put in than having my favorite car stolen, chopped up and sold. Yet the person who caused me far less pain (the car thief) in this instance is the one in jail, while the person who was a party to my now ruined marriage gets to go on as if nothing happened other than a toss in the hay with a beautiful woman.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Awesome post! A lot of societies used to execute adulterers. That was back when standards were higher. Today adultery is laughed at. A joke. There are states that insist on no-fault divorces. Screw around behind your spouses back but no worries, it's a no-fault state.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

KingwoodKev said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> Awesome post! A lot of societies used to execute adulterers. That was back when standards were higher. Today adultery is laughed at. A joke. There are states that insist on no-fault divorces. Screw around behind your spouses back but no worries, it's a no-fault state.


We can thank the cheating politicians of decades past for the change since before most States divorce were based on fault, many of them, and their cheating ilk, were taken to the cleaners by their BW. Now, it is the BS that often has to pay the WS for the privilege of being married.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Retribution said:


> I'm sorry, but while my judgment of issues isn't black and white, my justice for those issues is. In other words, if you do wrong, I believe that you need to pay for it. Whether that payment happens naturally, by the hand of an angry spouse in the case of infidelity, or both, it doesn't matter to me. You break it (the marriage), you bought yourself a world of pain.
> 
> I for one believe that a husband or wife should have every legal right to not only beat the living daylights out of the OM/OW, but to take monetary compensation from them as well. Infidelity just isn't viewed as the serious matter it really is by too many people. There need to be real and quantifiable circumstances imposed upon those who violate these things. To illustrate how backwards society is on this issue, I, and I'd wager most people, believe that infidelity is a far worse situation to be put in than having my favorite car stolen, chopped up and sold. Yet the person who caused me far less pain (the car thief) in this instance is the one in jail, while the person who was a party to my now ruined marriage gets to go on as if nothing happened other than a toss in the hay with a beautiful woman.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right in everything that you say. It should be that way. Marriage is worth more than any car will be. But systems fall us. That is the only reason why I emphasize the internal moving on more than the external societal moving on. We should push the justice system to not reward the WW/WH for cheating and the system is heavily biased against BH even more than BW. But if my friend tomorrow finds his wife is cheating, it would be wrong of me to say that he would get full judicial justice. He won't. 

It should be living well and making the other person pay for their actions instead of getting rewarded. 

The judicial system failed me. I wanted to stop that person for hurting anyone else by locking him up. But I couldn't.

So I moved on internally. What else could I do?

Live well.

It would be nice if TAM could inform divorce law though.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

If divorced XWS had to pay through the nose, perhaps many of them would be inclined not to marry again.

If politicians were truly concerned with "the protection of marriage" they would bring back fault divorce laws.


----------



## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

badkarma2013 said:


> ******************************************************
> I agree.....My WW lied,deceived and betrayed me...She did sex acts with her Boss/OM she said to me for 22 years were Disgusting...But she did them with him...and if anyone thinks they are going to suggest how i should act after 2 people destroyed my life as I knew it..you are out of your fu%king mind...
> 
> I outed the OM to his wife...I filed a lawsuit against their company and had them fired ...I showed pics of my wife have sex with the other man to her family..( at their request)...His wife destroyed him in his divorce..
> ...


I love this. I would only have done one thing different.....that I wont mention for obvious reasons.


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> Stop it! Please! I'm going to have multiple doggasms


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> Awesome post! A lot of societies used to execute adulterers. That was back when standards were higher. Today adultery is laughed at. A joke. There are states that insist on no-fault divorces. Screw around behind your spouses back but no worries, it's a no-fault state.


As late as the 40's it used to be ruled justifiable homicide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## claireont (Feb 10, 2015)

I think its always difficult in situations like you describe. 
In the case of a physical affair I think its often going to be true that the wandering spouse did do some things with the affair partner that they hadn't done or weren't able to achieve with their spouse. I think that's just the hard truth. 
We all know that in many cases marriages that experience infidelity often fail. In this scenario "taking a pound of flesh" is never an issue.
For those relationships that do try to reconcile I think the BS may just be focused on more important issues. If they are really thinking about retribution than they probably fall into the first category and their marriage is just another divorce statistic. I'm sure its always hard for a BS to deal with the knowledge or at least thought that their spouse was doing things sexually which they hadn't. However if they are serious about saving the relationship they are likely more focused on rebuilding trust, determining if they still love each other etc.
Claire


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> First off, this thread was meant to be gender neutral, but I admit when I give examples I tend to use a WW since I'm a guy. I try my best to use WS in these types of scenarios, but sometimes I fail at that.
> 
> The point of the thread is to talk about to what extent a BS should seek out justice - or revenge. Within the marriage, the "pound of flesh" is a price that no one want to take. I bet 100 out of 100 people would prefer a strong marriage with zero infidelity - should be obvious. But what if you were robbed of that? As a BS, what is your recourse? To forgive and forget? Or should you try to collect a certain amount of payment, i.e. a "pound of flesh" as compensation for your life being ruined by your WS? Alternatively, you can offer full forgiveness and move on from that point.
> 
> That's the premise of the thread.


I agree and I wish more women would come forward and talk about it. I'm not going to take offense. I didn't cheat on them. Neither was I the other man.

Anyway, with all my resentful posts, I got a phone call tonight from my exMIL. Yes, ex2's mother who must be somewhere around 80 or more years old. I truly don't remember. The thing is, it was Lifeline that called. They filled me in on the answering machine, about what was wrong with her and that paramedics were being sent. Guess what my first reaction was? No, not good for her. It was to consider if I should hop in the car and run over to her condo just a few miles away and see if she is okay. I imagine she is alone, or they didn't get hold of ex2, or her two brothers. I decided against going. I called them back withing two or three minutes and told them we were divorced and I had no number to give them to forward the message to ex2. Yeah, I'm feeling a little sick inside about it. I would love to go help her, but I know it's not the right thing to do. They tried talking to me a little and then told me they would take me off their list of contacts for her. WTF? I don't think for a minute, she is not smart enough to have not taken me off herself. She is no dummy. She is very intelligent. So much pain, so many years later. We separated in June of '11 and divorced at the beginning of July '12, just before I got here. 

Now, how long and how much damage did that cause? Neither of us will be the same, ever. For some reason the words, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder", are going through my head. 

What pound of flesh do I require? I can't know for certain. I do know that some days are tougher than others. I know that there really needs to be something that makes folks stop and think. Something legal needs done to make infidelity less intriguing. It will always be a prize for some to attain. It can also come with real legal consequences for deterrence. It won't stop all, but if it stops a few, it is worth it for all involved.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Dogbert said:


> If divorced XWS had to pay through the nose, perhaps many of them would be inclined not to marry again.
> 
> If politicians were truly concerned with "the protection of marriage" they would bring back fault divorce laws.


I disagree on the non-infidelity cases. 

But when infidelity is involved? You bet! A BS should not be forced to consider staying with a cheater because of the financial devastation of divorce. Let the WS live on a friends couch and see the kids on the weekends only. The BS should keep the house and primary custody.


----------



## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

larry.gray said:


> I disagree on the non-infidelity cases.
> 
> But when infidelity is involved? You bet! A BS should not be forced to consider staying with a cheater because of the financial devastation of divorce. Let the WS live on a friends couch and see the kids on the weekends only. The BS should keep the house and primary custody.


I question access to kids, especially if they're young and impressionable. Cheaters lie and betray those they love most, including those children. Is this really an influence they should be around?


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Racer said:


> Actually,* it wouldn't be infidelity if they didn't want to stay married to you*. That's something many BS's fail to recognize; Short of an exit affair, no matter how much of a villain they claim you are, *they did not file for divorce*.
> 
> As for the sexual acts and forcing in general... it's not truly forced, just a condition: You can stay married to me IF I can feel I am worth more than anything you gave so freely to the OP, *OR* you can face divorce *OR* you can push it further and deny me to see how much of a big deal it is with me assuming a risk because who really knows how much I can tolerate before I toss in that towel. The wayward does have a choice; only one offers a higher probability the marriage might survive.


It would be Infidelity until a divorce or a legal separation stating each spouse can date other people. An exit affair is still cheating (aka an affair).
The BS still will recognize it as an affair and cheating even if the WS wants out of the marriage.
The divorce should always come first.


----------

