# Women Knowing Their Men



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

I was thinking over the weekend about things I want to discuss in marriage counseling this coming week. And something I realized is that I have always spoiled my wife, despite what we may have been going through. However, None of these things have been reciprocated. 
Examples: Every significant date, I ensure that she gets something from me, no matter how small a gesture, a gesture nonetheless. However, in 10 years, I can count on one hand how many times she has actually gotten me something. Her response to this is tha tI am difficult to gift shop for, and my taste is outside what she can afford. Uhhhh, ok.
I took the time over those years to learn her body, what she likes, and does not like, what works, and what doesn't. However, I don't think she has a clue about what I like or not. She loves when I giver her oral. I am not a fan of it like most men are, because most women are not as good at it as they would like to think. I do like it to get going though, but the wife is not very good at it, but I don't see why I should have to teach my woman of 10 years how to do something that I am not the first person she's had to do it to.
I do believe that I have built up resentment for this because I never had these issues before with other women. They were more in tune with what a man likes and made an effort. But of course, the wife does not feel the need to do certain things. 
Another thing I realized, when we were dating, she was able to do any position, even the ones I enjoyed and made it easy for me to cum, but after marriage, everything except missionary and doggy, hurt. 
So my question, just as how a man is expected to learn his wife's body in order to please her, is the same expected of wives? How many do this? If so, how? Are there any that do not see this as a necessity?


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

From your description, it does sound like she has a general attitude of entitlement that includes but also transcends sex.

Even my wife initially, plus every other woman I have been with, did have some level of concern about wanting to be a good lover. If those attitudes are reciprocal.

Unfortunately it is a sad but enduring part of human nature that love and affection freely given, it is not valued. It does sound like your situation.

Does she notice if you skip a special occasion or slow down on the romance ?


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Of course! Marriage is give and take and each person has a responsibility to meet the others needs. One thing that makes me feel so close to my husband is that no other woman knows him the way I do. People change though, and some things one of us liked at one time is no longer something we like now.

I think the effort to please your spouse counts for a lot too. It shows you care about them.

Does your wife have any female problems that would cause some sexual positions to hurt or did she just do a bait and switch. I know that I've had problems with endometriosis, which is very painful and some positions just hurt too much (usually the ones where he could go the deepest). This happened several years into our marriage though, and I certainly wasn't happy about it. It actually made me feel guilty and broken. My hubs was very understanding and didn't want to hurt me.

I think your wife just needs to make more of an effort to meet your needs.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It just sounds like you're the giver and she's the taker in your marriage. It's a pattern you set by continuing to do for her when nothing was done for you. She doesn't see the problem, as you never said it was a problem in TEN YEARS. Hard to break that cycle.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> From your description, it does sound like she has a general attitude of entitlement that includes but also transcends sex.
> 
> Even my wife initially, plus every other woman I have been with, did have some level of concern about wanting to be a good lover. If those attitudes are reciprocal.
> 
> ...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I suggest stopping all that you do to make her spoiled.

If she talks about it, mention how you are tired of being the only one giving in this relationship. Don't be a douche about it...but be firm and cool.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> It just sounds like you're the giver and she's the taker in your marriage. It's a pattern you set by continuing to do for her when nothing was done for you. She doesn't see the problem, as you never said it was a problem in TEN YEARS. Hard to break that cycle.


Well, honestly, I never realized thi until recently. And I was brought up knowing that men take care of their women. However, I do remember knowing my mother doing for my father as much as he did for her. But it was during reflection I had that "WTF" moment. Like, "Hold the phone," I have nothing besides one or two things I can look around the house and say, "yes, my wife got me that."


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My husband is not a giver of "things" but he's a doer...and he does SO MUCH for me. Little things that let me know he loves me. Simple things like washing my car or making sure it's running right...or simply sorting the laundry and folding it when the buzzer goes off 

I am the giver of mushy cards and love letters. I get one on anniversaries though  But he's a doer and I'm a giver. However, I do for him as well. I make sure his work clothes are perfectly pressed and ready to go and he appreciates that so much.

I'm glad you woke up and had your :wtf: moment. She should be giving/doing for you as well.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Three things: 

There might be a difference in love languages here. Google "The Five Love Languages."

You might want to check out "Married Man Sex Life." Google it also and get the book.

By all means, this is an important topic for counseling.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> My husband is not a giver of "things" but he's a doer...and he does SO MUCH for me. Little things that let me know he loves me. Simple things like washing my car or making sure it's running right...or simply sorting the laundry and folding it when the buzzer goes off
> 
> I am the giver of mushy cards and love letters. I get one on anniversaries though  But he's a doer and I'm a giver. However, I do for him as well. I make sure his work clothes are perfectly pressed and ready to go and he appreciates that so much.
> 
> I'm glad you woke up and had your :wtf: moment. She should be giving/doing for you as well.


I'm a doer as well, wife does not do laundry. I ensure that she has anything she needs and most of what she wants. She recently complained that I don't do "enough" around the house. Mind you, when I do laundry, I fold and put away, hang up her uniform right out the dryer so she doesn't need to iron them. But she was referring to cleaning up the kitchen. Now i'm not sure what she does. Yes, she does the cooking and cleans the rest of the house. We share doing the groceries, and share duties with our daughter. I do all bills and finances period. I dunno, but something clicked, and i'm glad it did.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

romantic_guy said:


> Three things:
> 
> There might be a difference in love languages here. Google "The Five Love Languages."
> 
> ...


It certainly is. And it isn't so much a matter of the "things", it's the gesture. Seeing that she thought about me, and figured me out. I don't feel like she knows me when she uses the "hard to shop for" excuse. So it's more than just the material items.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You're not hard to shop for, you're just not worth her time. 

IMO, that's a huge insult. After ten years, she has NO idea what to get you? Please.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> You're not hard to shop for, you're just not worth her time.
> 
> IMO, that's a huge insult. After ten years, she has NO idea what to get you? Please.


Yeah, that's the feeling. This is all I need to realize how deprived I have been. The thing is too, since I have realized, I have been a bit withdrawn, because talking to her is just a chore in itself. She is the type that doesn't feel that talking about old stuff helps anything. But, I still feel how I feel. I'm glad we decided on counseling, because I have a LOT to say.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

And this is the same woman that I was getting ready to get a bmw for. Lol. Needless to say, that's on hold.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to believe that you are far too Beta and need to learn how to add Alpha to your personality. Again, I mention Married Man Sex Life:

Married Man Sex Life

You really need to read the book to get the full concept. The blog helps, but if you don't read the book it is easy to misunderstand the concepts since you don't understand the concept.

Also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy."

No More Mr. Nice Guy

I could be wrong but I am afraid that you might be on your way to the "I love you, but I am not in love with you" speech.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

that_girl said:


> You're not hard to shop for, you're just not worth her time.
> 
> IMO, that's a huge insult. After ten years, she has NO idea what to get you? Please.


Well, in my case, it is sort of true - I am impossible to shop for because I buy what I need, and generally do not want anything I do not need. She usually has the kids make something. But I agree with the concept that a gift should demonstrate thought/knowledge about the person, and effort by the giver. Otherwise it is offensive.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I suggest stopping all that you do to make her spoiled.
> 
> If she talks about it, mention how you are tired of being the only one giving in this relationship. Don't be a douche about it...but be firm and cool.



:iagree::iagree:


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I was thinking over the weekend about things I want to discuss in marriage counseling this coming week. And something I realized is that I have always spoiled my wife, despite what we may have been going through. However, None of these things have been reciprocated.
> Examples: Every significant date, I ensure that she gets something from me, no matter how small a gesture, a gesture nonetheless. However, in 10 years, I can count on one hand how many times she has actually gotten me something. *Her response to this is that I am difficult to gift shop for, and my taste is outside what she can afford. Uhhhh, ok. *_Has she never heard the saying "It's the thought that counts" ? It sounds like a cop out excuse when what she really means is that it wasn't worth a little time and thought to come up with something to get for you. A card, a small bottle of cologne that she thinks smells good, a momogrammed picture frame filled with a photo of her, a tie clip or cuff links, a decent watch....hell, I can come up with a gift and I don't even know you._
> 
> I took the time over those years to learn her body, what she likes, and does not like, what works, and what doesn't. However, I don't think she has a clue about what I like or not. She loves when I giver her oral. I* am not a fan of it like most men are, because most women are not as good at it as they would like to think. I do like it to get going though, but the wife is not very good at it, but I don't see why I should have to teach my woman of 10 years how to do something that I am not the first person she's had to do it to. *_I'm sorry but I have to put this one on you. Just like women, all men are different. Just because you are not the first does not mean she will automatically know what it is you want. If for 10 years you haven't asked her to do something a bit differently you can't expect her to do something to change because she is under the impression she is doing what you want. Women are always being told they need to let their man know what pleases them, it is the same for men. Tell her what you would like her to do different to please you. _
> ...


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

I laughed out loud at your first response about not knowing me and knowing what to get. I will admit, I am not the sentimental type. I like things I can use, the cologne, watch, shoot, even underwear would be appreciated. Lol. 

As toy our second respnse. My wife, when we met, we were both young, 20 and 19. She had no clue what she liked or wanted back then. I had to learn and help her understand her own body which is why, now, she can easily have multiple O's. Coming from not having any except from oral. So, granted, I am more self aware, I think the desire to learn more is not there. I take forever to orgasm with my wife, with women I have been with, I took long, but it was not so painstaking. And I told her that her oral skills were sub par, so she does what? Stop doing it. lol.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> I suggest stopping all that you do to make her spoiled.
> 
> If she talks about it, mention how you are tired of being the only one giving in this relationship. Don't be a douche about it...but be firm and cool.
> 
> ...


I am always firm and cool about anything we discuss. But she is easily offended. Her feelings gets hurt very easily. But that's because I am not emotional enough, according to her.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I laughed out loud at your first response about not knowing me and knowing what to get. I will admit, I am not the sentimental type. I like things I can use, the cologne, watch, shoot, even underwear would be appreciated. Lol.
> 
> As toy our second respnse. My wife, when we met, we were both young, 20 and 19. She had no clue what she liked or wanted back then. I had to learn and help her understand her own body which is why, now, she can easily have multiple O's. Coming from not having any except from oral. So, granted, I am more self aware, I think the desire to learn more is not there. I take forever to orgasm with my wife, with women I have been with, I took long, but it was not so painstaking. And I told her that her oral skills were sub par, so she does what? Stop doing it. lol.


 Mikey...telling her that her skills are sub par  ...not cool. I would stop too if thats how my husband approached me. On the other hand if he said to me, honey I'd really like it if you would use more pressure, or touch me here while you are giving me a bj...well you can be sure I'd doing it. Also I'd be asking him if how I was doing it was what he meant. Women take things to heart and criticism doesn't work well. You'd get further to make a request than to tell her she's no good at it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So you have to do everything, give all the gifts AND be emotional?

Godam...she sure runs this marriage, huh...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Mrs. T said:


> Mikey...telling her that her skills are sub par  ...not cool. I would stop too if thats how my husband approached me. On the other hand if he said to me, honey I'd really like it if you would use more pressure, or touch me here while you are giving me a bj...well you can be sure I'd doing it. Also I'd be asking him if how I was doing it was what he meant. Women take things to heart and criticism doesn't work well. You'd get further to make a request than to tell her she's no good at it.


I just go by the noise my husband makes


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I just go by the noise my husband makes


That's what I do too. So I expect the same from her. If you look up and I look like I am bored, wouldn't you want to figure out how to improve? And if not, don't get offended when I tell you the truth.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I will sound sexist, but I always thought that loving husbands usually do a lot more in the marriage then women (at least the ones on these sites). 

I got very upset responses when I asked a simple question as to expecting something when you get/do a significant present/gesture for your spouse. No you should never expect nothing, or demand, but it sure would be nice.

I have bought gifts/big ticket items and acknowledged dates I am sure a minimum of a 7:1 ratio with my spouse. I tell her I don't want anything in terms of presents except one thing...... SEX and fun SEX. 

Do I get that???? NO..... We do have a sex life, but never (and pretty sure it is 100% never)when I have gotten her something or we celebrate a major occasion have I got any.

Good thing we love each other and are generally happy.

So to OP, you are not alone and really it is not at all unusual (or at least I have convinced myself that).


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I just go by the noise my husband makes





that_girl said:


> So you have to do everything, give all the gifts AND be emotional?
> 
> Godam...she sure runs this marriage, huh...


Ok, I won't say "everything". but giiiirl, trust me, when she tells me I don't do enough to help out, I want to lose it. but i'll take the advice given here of stopping the giving. something has to give I guess. 
seems that her only way of seeing appreciation of her is by me helping with housework. i'll focus my energy on that from now on.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

As far as the gift thing goes maybe she's just a sensitive woman about this stuff. Maybe the few times she got you things in the past you didn't seem happy with the gift or was overly critical about it. Women don't forget these things you know. Just a stab in the dark on that front. 

As far as oral is concerned I've always had the approach that if I'm going to make an effort at anything I'm not going to half ass it. I have always taken the initiative to figure out whatever my lovers needs are because simply put, it gets me off to get him off. However I've had a few lovers in my day who thought because one woman loved such and such that I must love it too. It DOESN'T work that way man. 

Everyone likes different things, so your wife's A game oral with some previous guy might just be d- to you you know? Instead of insulting her oral skills try to direct her as to what YOU like orally. And make sure to praise her when she shows signs of improvement, and maybe give her a little something extra when u go down on her. Maybe she will out a connection on giving you good oral and her receiving exceptional oral afterwards. Just a thought. 

On a sour note my stbx never learned how to give good oral. I tried everything to teach him. I also NEVER had a problem teaching anyone else I've been with in that fashion. A horrible bed partner wears on a persons want to engage in sexual acts with them. Some people just can't be taught unfortunately. One more thought, is she in to 69? Might be a way for you to enjoy giving her oral more.

And as far as her selfishness is concerned in other areas of your relationship, Ive nothing to offer in terms if advice except I've been there to man, it's not fair to you nor should it be tolerated.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

In one of your posts in my "fed up with husband preferring porn" thread you said you're honest to a fault. LOL you weren't kidding.

Just remember, everyone is different. You look for clues in what pleases your wife, but you may have to let her know verbally what you want. It's kind of like when a wife says she gives her husband hints, but he just doesn't get it. Most of the men will tell her to just tell him what she wants.

I agree with the others that say stop giving so much. She needs to stop taking all the time without giving.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

MrsOldNews said:


> As far as the gift thing goes maybe she's just a sensitive woman about this stuff. Maybe the few times she got you things in the past you didn't seem happy with the gift or was overly critical about it. Women don't forget these things you know. Just a stab in the dark on that front.
> 
> As far as oral is concerned I've always had the approach that if I'm going to make an effort at anything I'm not going to half ass it. I have always taken the initiative to figure out whatever my lovers needs are because simply put, it gets me off to get him off. However I've had a few lovers in my day who thought because one woman loved such and such that I must love it too. It DOESN'T work that way man.
> 
> ...


Good insight here. You are right about her giving. She was one of those card giving girlfriends before me. I told her though, although that is nice, I like useful gifts. Even when I get cards from friends or relatives I read them and put them away. I don't know, always been that way. I don't think I might have done anything to let her feel I did not appreciate a gesture she made in the past, but maybe I did without realizing. I will ask her and see. As for the oral, I enjoy giving it to her, as much as she likes to receive it. I was the first to give her an orgasm both ways. Her giving it to me though has been rough. She has told me though that sexually, I have been the most experimental and open and person she has been with. Before me, it was missionary and doggy. But she had several partners though, so not sure about that. Her past isn't even a concern, I could care less what happened before me, it just seems she uses inexperience as an excuse. I mean, weren't we all inexperienced at one time or another?



bubbly girl said:


> In one of your posts in my "fed up with husband preferring porn" thread you said *you're honest to a fault. LOL you weren't kidding.*
> Just remember, everyone is different. You look for clues in what pleases your wife, but you may have to let her know verbally what you want. It's kind of like when a wife says she gives her husband hints, but he just doesn't get it. Most of the men will tell her to just tell him what she wants.
> 
> I agree with the others that say stop giving so much. She needs to stop taking all the time without giving.


Lol, I usually forewarn people about this. so usually when people want honest opinions, they find me. So when my wife asked if I enjoyed it, my answer was no. she wanted me to explain why, my thing was, it just didn't feel good. I didn't know what else to say.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I agree that it was NOT cool telling her she sucks (no pun intended) at BJs.

You're lucky she didn't take a bite out of your Johnson.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I told her that her oral skills were sub par, so she does what? Stop doing it. lol.


How nice of you. Cheat and then tell your wife that her oral skills aren't like the other women you have been with. Really, just really?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I missed the part where he cheated....

If that's the case, then you get nothing!


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

I didn't see anything about him cheating.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My wife makes a huge deal, at least verbally about acknowledging every little event or holiday or holiday or birthday. Let me amend that, I mean HAVE acknowledged. Which is fine, everyone deserves a little attention. The thing that irks me is that she's very very noncommittal about all those things that go into that acknowledgement. Cards, balloons, cake, special events....she's terribly indifferent to them all and often obsessively hostile about the cost whatever that cost is...a $4 card is 'lavish and a waste'. I stopped buying expensive gifts e.g. jewelry, a long time ago when she began to refuse to open the box and demanded it be returned. In turn she rarely gets any gifts for me or for anyone except the kids. Sometimes she'll get me a giftcard or something like that but the implication is I should give it back to her so she can get something for herself or for the kids.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Can't help you with the sex though. She spent a few short years many many years ago very rarely consenting and being generally awful at it. So awful that even while I was telling her what to do while she was 'doing it' she would intentionally ignore whatever I said and continued to be awful at it. After that I simply stopped asking or recommending anything and shortly after that she announced as if she was the Burning Bush, she was done, finito with sex forever over and out, done. At this point I chalk it up to a whole nest of deeply held and complex mental health issues and a growing awareness that my wife, emotionally is about 10 years old and thinks "Cinderella" is a documentary. 

The key I suppose is to try to understand WHAT your wife thinks she's contributing to this process. It can be ineffable though. Like people who are control freaks think their nagging is a moral good. They think that if they could just scold and nag and correct just a little bit more everything would be wonderful. Maybe your wife thinks her generally negative attitude is actually a good thing. It's not so strange.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Mikey's wife told him she had a ONS with a popular singer from the island they were from while they were dating. They eventually get married and *years later* she tells him that it was not a ONS but a year long sexual affair. Mikey doesn't take it well (who would?) and makes the dumba$$ decision to have multiple PAs. He's finally open his eyes and realizes that cheating is wrong. If I'm not mistaken, he's already told his wife about his PAs.

Still, his PAs, as well as his 'You suck!" to his wife's oral skills, suck royal a$$.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, then...his wife is harboring resentment EVEN THOUGH she cheated (before marriage).


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> How nice of you. Cheat and then tell your wife that her oral skills aren't like the other women you have been with. Really, just really?


This is after reconciling. She cheated before I did as well, for no reason. But that part is behind us, hence my not mentioning it here. But thanks for not reading my post and replying solely to what was said.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> Mikey's wife told him she had a ONS with a popular singer from the island they were from while they were dating. They eventually get married and *years later* she tells him that it was not a ONS but a year long sexual affair. Mikey doesn't take it well (who would?) and makes the dumba$$ decision to have multiple PAs. He's finally open his eyes and realizes that cheating is wrong. If I'm not mistaken, he's already told his wife about his PAs.
> 
> Still, his PAs, as well as his 'You suck!" to his wife's oral skills, suck royal a$$.


Thanks for clarifying, and yes, I did admit to the PA's. At the time, I thought, in my infinite wisdom, that cheating would have helped me get over what she did. But I did realize that afterwards, none of them made me feel any better, just worse. What really drove me to that though was that she wouldn't really talk to me about it. As I said, she is one of those "why talk about the past, let's just get over it", then gets upset if I do try to talk about. Still, I feel like a souche about that already. Still not the question here, as they are 2 seperate incidents. This is more recent and relevant. The cheating stuff has passed.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> This is after reconciling. She cheated before I did as well, for no reason. But that part is behind us, hence my not mentioning it here. But thanks for not reading my post and replying solely to what was said.


I read your post. You implied she is ungrateful all while telling her she's bad in bed. With this post, you come across as selfish and ungrateful....not her.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Well, then...his wife is harboring resentment EVEN THOUGH she cheated * (before marriage)*.


This is one of the things up for debate as well. Her cheating before marriage. She says it doesn't really count as badly. I say it does because the foundation of our relationship was disturbed. If she was someone that I had no intentions of marrying then it wouldn't matter, but I knew right away she was that person. Yes, I did my dirt after the vows and all, but I know, for a fact, that we would not have had those issues if the act was not performed on her end. And then to lie about the frequency after marriage, that threw me for a loop. Damn, I really can't wait to hear what this counselor has to say about this mess. I just want to be able to say we exhausted every option before calling it quits.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I read your post. You implied she is ungrateful all while telling her she's bad in bed. With this post, you come across as selfish and ungrateful....not her.


Selfish? How? Like I said, this was after the fact. And the oral part was a minor example of the issues. At least she was bad at that consistently. Talk about the all of a sudden, not being able to do certain positions that she was capable of doing prior to marriage. positions that got me off sooner, since she says I last too long. 

ugh, thursday can't come soon enough.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> Mikey's wife told him she had a ONS with a popular singer from the island they were from while they were dating. They eventually get married and *years later* she tells him that it was not a ONS but a year long sexual affair. Mikey doesn't take it well (who would?) and makes the *dumba$$ decision * to have multiple PAs. He's finally open his eyes and realizes that cheating is wrong. If I'm not mistaken, he's already told his wife about his PAs.
> 
> Still, his PAs, as well as his 'You suck!" to his wife's oral skills, suck royal a$$.


And just to highlight this, I could not agree with you more. Can you say feel extremely stupid to think that I could regain a sense of manhood from other women? In the moment, it was awesome, but the feeling of lowness after was not gratifying at all.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> My wife makes a huge deal, at least verbally about acknowledging every little event or holiday or holiday or birthday. Let me amend that, I mean HAVE acknowledged. Which is fine, everyone deserves a little attention. The thing that irks me is that she's very very noncommittal about all those things that go into that acknowledgement. Cards, balloons, cake, special events....she's terribly indifferent to them all and often obsessively hostile about the cost whatever that cost is...a $4 card is 'lavish and a waste'. I stopped buying expensive gifts e.g. jewelry, a long time ago when she began to refuse to open the box and demanded it be returned. In turn she rarely gets any gifts for me or for anyone except the kids. Sometimes she'll get me a giftcard or something like that but the implication is I should give it back to her so she can get something for herself or for the kids.


Sounds like she made that decision easy for you. lol.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

When did you find out that she cheated? before or after marriage?

if before, shame on you for marrying her.

if after, shame on her.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

that_girl said:


> When did you find out that she cheated? before or after marriage?
> 
> if before, shame on you for marrying her.
> 
> if after, shame on her.


I know, I know. It was before. But I thought I could get over it, being that it was a one time occurence. However, after about 5 years in, the beans spilled on the frequency. that's when I lost it.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

This has turned into an issue about cheating. I don't think that was the OP's intention. To get back on point I think if you are both committed to making your marriage work and make it the best it can be you need to sit down together and have a talk...non confrontational, about what your needs are in the relationship. Mikey if your wife doesn't like to bring up old issues (and I can now understand why that may upset her) then approach it in the present tense. Forget the 10 years that have passed and focus on improving your interactions now and in the future. If you can do this without making it seem like you are criticising her she may listen.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I took the time over those years to learn her body, what she likes, and does not like, what works, and what doesn't. However, I don't think she has a clue about what I like or not. She loves when I giver her oral. I am not a fan of it like most men are, because most women are not as good at it as they would like to think. I do like it to get going though, but the wife is not very good at it, but I don't see why I should have to teach my woman of 10 years how to do something that I am not the first person she's had to do it to.


 I think the biggest mistakes people make in the bedroom is being too quiet......not asking each other questions......trying new things, asking ...do you like this.......or does this feel better? It really IS all experimentation, isn't that the joy of it ... if we want to please our partners...yeah coming from the Queen of repression and inhibitions... I am so far on the other side of the fence now... It is so obvious where we both screwed ourselves to hell & back in the bedroom.

I used to be embarrased to tell him his fingers were hurting me, like it might offend him, and he was too damn quiet to ever ask me ... do you like this....or that? He still doesn't even today, of course I am very open to tell him, so I guess I should not complain. 



> I do believe that I have built up resentment for this because I never had these issues before with other women. They were more in tune with what a man likes and made an effort. But of course, the wife does not feel the need to do certain things.


 I can understand your admitting some resentment here. I struggle with near resenting my husband , for being so terribly passive in the past when he had a HIGH drive... what little creativity he showed in comparison to the lengthts I went to ...to turn him on when my drive sky rocketed. It eats at me sometimes cause I feel we missed so much. Sure it was my fault too, but I feel the one with the highest drive needs to BE that creative force to bring the other out of their shell. With me, he just "let it die" slowly. 

Resentment over sexual issues is so commonplace, to deny we are feeling this way is not the answer either. It is good you can acknowledge this. Talk about it with her...if you have -- how does she respond?? Does she know it is RESENTMENT climbing on your end?? I was furious when I learned my husband was hiding how he felt all those years - I would rather have a big brawl over someone holding in resentment towards me, cause that blackens everything...clouds all passion and giving emotions. Resentment is destructive, we need to bring these things out in the light. 



> Another thing I realized, when we were dating, she was able to do any position, even the ones I enjoyed and made it easy for me to cum, but after marriage, everything except missionary and doggy, hurt.


 This would be a hard pill to swallow, gets you to the wedding , then it is like all the gifts are taken away. 



> So my question, just as how a man is expected to learn his wife's body in order to please her, is the same expected of wives? How many do this? If so, how? Are there any that do not see this as a necessity?


It should be a necessity for all of us. I was guilty of not reading enough in my youth to please my husband, I regret these things terribly but he was just as bad , never trying to creatively get me to try new things -he was happy with the same old -same old ....all the time. But again, he had the higher drive back then, I feel it was on him to "open my eyes" so long as I was not foolish enough to shut him down. 

I think I need to do a thread on "sexual resentment". It is a topic many many could relate too , I believe ...it is a part of our marital history too. 

Thankfully we are beyond it all but --It grieves me what it stole from us.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Mrs. T said:


> This has turned into an issue about cheating. I don't think that was the OP's intention. To get back on point I think if you are both committed to making your marriage work and make it the best it can be you need to sit down together and have a talk...non confrontational, about what your needs are in the relationship. Mikey if your wife doesn't like to bring up old issues (and I can now understand why that may upset her) then approach it in the present tense. Forget the 10 years that have passed and focus on improving your interactions now and in the future. If you can do this without making it seem like you are criticising her she may listen.


Thanks for this insight. This approach was not even on my radar. Should I try it before or after the initial therapy session?


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think the biggest mistakes people make in the bedroom is being too quiet......not asking each other questions......trying new things, asking ...do you like this.......or does this feel better? It really IS all experimentation, isn't that the joy of it ... if we want to please our partners...yeah coming from the Queen of repression and inhibitions... I am so far on the other side of the fence now... It is so obvious where we both screwed ourselves to hell & back in the bedroom.
> 
> I used to be embarrased to tell him his fingers were hurting me, like it might offend him, and he was too damn quiet to ever ask me ... do you like this....or that? He still doesn't even today, of course I am very open to tell him, so I guess I should not complain.
> 
> ...


SA, once again, you have shed some light on the situation. It does steal a lot from you. The greatest thing though is time. And as we know, it waits for no man.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Thanks for this insight. This approach was not even on my radar. Should I try it before or after the initial therapy session?


Why wait? My first marriage was not a happy one but looking back I know part of it was that I just clammed up and quit talking whenever something bothered me. I've gone through a lot and one of the best things I took away from a bad experience was realising the necessity of communication. I've also learned how to communicate effectively by being positive. 
Any problem can be approached with a positive outlook and the results 99% of the time are also positive. Don't nag, criticise or complain...explain, request and encourage...it works.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Mrs. T said:


> Any problem can be approached with a positive outlook and the results 99% of the time are also positive. Don't nag, criticise or complain...explain, request and encourage...it works.


:iagree:

Mikey, sometimes blunt honesty isn't the best way to get the results you want. You may not understand why your wife doesn't look for signals like you do during sex to know what you like and don't like. That's just not how she is, so you're going to have to do something different to get the results you want. 

Talk in positives not negatives. Instead of telling her she's bad at oral, tell her what you want her to do that feels good. Tell her when she does something that you love. Negative comments will only make her defensive. Good luck!


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks Mrs. T and BG. I will take your advice.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Thanks Mrs. T and BG. I will take your advice.


 Awesome! I wish you the best! :smthumbup:


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I suggest stopping all that you do to make her spoiled.
> 
> If she talks about it, mention how you are tired of being the only one giving in this relationship. Don't be a douche about it...but be firm and cool.


:iagree::iagree:

Your wife is selfish and spoiled. 

However, you likely already knew that.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Your wife is selfish and spoiled.
> 
> However, you likely already knew that.


yeah, yeah, yeah

I do tend to spoil women that I have feelings for. But it's what I've known. She was always the envy of her friends and stuff, and it made me feel good to know that I could do these things for her. But, with the help of you all, I was able to realize only a deserving woman gets these things. Not saying she isn't, but, this stops until she gets that ass in order.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Thanks Mrs. T and BG. I will take your advice.


Glad to help a fellow Cubano out. 

Hope it all works out for you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mikey,
You are making some smart decisions. 

For instance, if you had bought the BMW - the underlying subtext would have been "I am DELIGHTED with how you treat me, in bed and outside the bedroom which is why I am getting you this extravagant gift". 

You cannot give someone a big gift and then proceed to tell them they have been behaving in a lazy/ungrateful manner because they will believe your actions represent how you really feel and your words are the product of a bad day. 

Which is WHY the best way to rebalance is to be fun and good to be around while doing LESS for them. Less:
- I love you's that you say first
- Hugs that you initiate
- Sex that you initiate
- Compliments
- Acts of service
- GIFTS
- Quality time that YOU initiate

And when she starts to press you on this, you stay dead calm and constructive and ask her if she believes the solution is for HER to do more and meet you in the middle or for you to take the lead on all this. If she tells you that "as the man" it is your job to take the lead on all this stuff just laugh and then be silent. And don't get drawn into an argument. 

If she pushes it, ask her what she believes the woman's role in a marriage is.



mikeydread1982 said:


> yeah, yeah, yeah
> 
> I do tend to spoil women that I have feelings for. But it's what I've known. She was always the envy of her friends and stuff, and it made me feel good to know that I could do these things for her. But, with the help of you all, I was able to realize only a deserving woman gets these things. Not saying she isn't, but, this stops until she gets that ass in order.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mickey why do you think you don't have to tell her how to please you orally ? Each man is different, what works for one does not for another. She is probably using the same tecnigue that worked with a previous partner. So tell her what works for you. Of course don't tell her she is lousy say something like let try something new. Ask her to start with licking teasing hands and caressing balls. 

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by expecting her to take the trouble to get to know what you like. Again people are so different. One person is a scatter brain remember little detail. It is style and approach to life. If she knows it is important to you she should take the trouble to pay attention. 

But she apparently is not doing that. So tell her don't wait and then resent. Do what ever you can to decrese your distress and resentment. You will be much happier. You are interpreting what she does not do negatively but there are many other interpretations that have nothing to do with how much she loves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mikey,
Catherine is right. Now you have two options here. 
1. Talk her through it 
2. SHOW her - yep - take one of her fingers and ummm demonstrate what you what





Catherine602 said:


> Mickey why do you think you don't have to tell her how to please you orally ? Each man is different, what works for one does not for another. She is probably using the same tecnigue that worked with a previous partner. So tell her what works for you. Of course don't tell her she is lousy say something like let try something new. Ask her to start with licking teasing hands and caressing balls.
> 
> I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by expecting her to take the trouble to get to know what you like. Again people are so different. One person is a scatter brain remember little detail. It is style and approach to life. If she knows it is important to you she should take the trouble to pay attention.
> 
> ...


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

mikeydread1982 said:


> I laughed out loud at your first response about not knowing me and knowing what to get. I will admit, I am not the sentimental type. I like things I can use, the cologne, watch, shoot, even underwear would be appreciated. Lol.
> 
> As toy our second respnse. My wife, when we met, we were both young, 20 and 19. She had no clue what she liked or wanted back then. I had to learn and help her understand her own body which is why, now, she can easily have multiple O's. Coming from not having any except from oral. So, granted, I am more self aware, I think the desire to learn more is not there. I take forever to orgasm with my wife, with women I have been with, I took long, but it was not so painstaking. And I told her that her oral skills were sub par, so she does what? Stop doing it. lol.


Oh!!!!!I hope you didn't tell her EXACTLY that!!????? If my husband said that I would stop too. Dont critique her, encourage her. Tell her what you like and how you like it. I know you say you shouldnt have to but the fact is, apparently you do. You have nothing to lose by showing and telling her exactly what you want. She is your wife, tell her.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Mickey* why do you think you don't have to tell her how to please you orally *? Each man is different, what works for one does not for another. She is probably using the same tecnigue that worked with a previous partner. So tell her what works for you. Of course don't tell her she is lousy say something like let try something new. Ask her to start with licking teasing hands and caressing balls.
> 
> I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by expecting her to take the trouble to get to know what you like. Again people are so different. One person is a scatter brain remember little detail. It is style and approach to life. If she knows it is important to you she should take the trouble to pay attention.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice. The reason why I felt this way was because I had no help in figuring her out. She didn't even have a clue what she liked until I found it. So I figured, I invested the time, effort, desire, to figure her body out from head to toe, shouldn't be so hard for her to do the same. But, I guess some people are not as sexually in tune as others. For her, sex could be just a plain in and out action and she would be alright with that, well, until she met me she says. Like I said though, i'll work with her on it.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Oh!!!!!I hope you didn't tell her EXACTLY that!!????? If my husband said that I would stop too. Dont critique her, encourage her. Tell her what you like and how you like it. I know you say you shouldnt have to but the fact is, apparently you do. You have nothing to lose by showing and telling her exactly what you want. She is your wife, tell her.


Yes Ma'am! :smthumbup::smthumbup:

And I kinda, sorta, did say it like that. But I speak in plain english, I deal with contracts for a living, so if it it's vague, or open to interpretation, I can't deal. Working on that too though.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Mikey,
> Catherine is right. Now you have two options here.
> 1. Talk her through it  - Agreed
> 2. *SHOW her - yep - take one of her fingers and ummm demonstrate what you what* Not too keen on this one, i'll improvise. She might want to know how I know to do it so well, lol


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Yes Ma'am! :smthumbup::smthumbup:
> 
> And I kinda, sorta, did say it like that. But I speak in plain english, I deal with contracts for a living, so if it it's vague, or open to interpretation, I can't deal. Working on that too though.


Unless you want a long dry spell you'd better work quickly, sir! When my husband and I first got together we were um...... and he went....south. I wanted him to do it differently. I didnt say "not like that" I said " Here, Like that". ... He is a very quick study!!!! Everybody wins. If I had said You are not doing that right, I would imagine he would have stopped.


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