# I can't give him what he needs! Help!



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

My husband recently discovered I was having an affair. Initially, I tried defending myself and blaming him for being so emotionally disconnected in our marriage. The affair lasted for 5 years. The OM was also married. We didn't "date", spend the night together, etc. We met periodically and had sex. This usually occurred once a month.

Since my husband confronted me, and I got over my initial shock of being found out, I have been working really hard to regain his trust. He says he's not leaving and he loves me, and I trust him. I have given him full transparency and check in with him regularly when I am not home. 

I have given him a lot of details about the affair. What we did, where we did it, etc.... There are a lot of issues that I am trying to work through, both personally and in our relationship; but I need to address each one separately....

What I need to know is how does knowing every minute detail help him? I have tried to give him as much as I can, but he continues to ask for more and we both get frustrated that I can't give him more. We are very different in that he has a vault that holds every detail of every event and conversation that he has ever had. I just don't work like that. I remember my emotional state and how I felt. It is so hard to give him what he says he needs.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What he needs is a wife he can trust. If that means spilling your guts over every minute detail, then that's what it means. You have earned abandonment. Anything less is a gift and you have no reason to complain.


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## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

As one who has been betrayed by lies and then found out on my own the truth, I can say that if he asks, tell him.

Sometimes, to the one betrayed, it's the unknown, the details, that drive us to think of the worst possible scenarios. And, many times, what we come up with in our own heads is far more seedy than the real event.

When he doesn't ask, don't offer details--that comes across as bragging, reliving or glamorizing.

I admire you for trying so hard to regain his trust... good luck.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Your husband wants to know if you gave up all the goodies to the OM that you may have withheld from him. He probably has a gut feeling that you let it all hang out with the OM. Of course, that's the way it usually runs, since wives don't want their husband to know what a slvt they can be out of hubby's line of sight. In my day, it was oral, these days it's anal. Other OMs [email protected] out the WW or swing with her. Your husband wants to know just how far off the ranch you've wandered.

Five years? Really? Must have been very hot sex to keep going back. See?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How long were you guys married? 5 years is pretty long time


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

^^interesting point.

Op, it seems youre only sorry because you got caught.

Do you want to stay married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

Originally posted be *Unbelievable* _What he needs is a wife he can trust. If that means spilling your guts over every minute detail, then that's what it means. You have earned abandonment. Anything less is a gift and you have no reason to complain._



Machiavelli said:


> Your husband wants to know if you gave up all the goodies to the OM that you may have withheld from him. He probably has a gut feeling that you let it all hang out with the OM. Of course, that's the way it usually runs, since wives don't want their husband to know what a slvt they can be out of hubby's line of sight. In my day, it was oral, these days it's anal. Other OMs [email protected] out the WW or swing with her. Your husband wants to know just how far off the ranch you've wandered.
> 
> Five years? Really? Must have been very hot sex to keep going back. See?


I agree with the posts above. *You* know the answers to all the questions he needs to ask. The very least you can do is provide him with them.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Repetitive questioning by a BS is natural and understandable.

He needs to regain trust by hearing the same answers over and over. He also fears "trickle truth" so if you've been holding back you need to lay everything out now.

Read the newbie link in my signature, especially the third post


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Please clarify not having any more to give him with regards to details.

Is it b/c its to painful for you and you don't want to hurt your H any more?

OR have you told him everything?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

There are 2 things going on.

1. Affairs are mostly about LYING, rather than sex. Cheaters get very good at lying. You know yourself how disturbing it would be to discover someone lied to you for a long period of time and you had no idea. It is nothing short of SHOCKING to discover that the person you're supposed to know the best in the world is a smooth, Oscar-caliber LIAR.

Many times an affair ends, but the cheater doesn't immediately share all details. This is known as "trickle-truth" and it's probably broken up a LOT of marriages that might have otherwise been saved. It works like this: you didn't want to tell him all the details at first, because you were ashamed. You told yourself that he didn't need to know, that more information would hurt him. But it really was just about the guilt you feel when you talk about it out loud with him.

He ISN'T hurt by the truth. He is hurt by the lying. And the sooner you understand this, the better.




2. For 5 years, your husband had one version of reality in his head. Then he suddenly discovered that it was not reality it all. It was a distorted, screwed up version of 'reality.' Now he is trying to piece together a long period of his life, using the information you had, to form a new reality.

He wants dates so he knows where he was when you were having sex. He wants times so he can see, oh, I was working late, I was with a friend, the kids were here...also, oh, that happened on father's day, or that was Christmas morning, oh that was Valentine's day. You can deduce for yourself why he wants the sex details.

Part of reconciling the two versions of reality is digesting the story from as many different angles as possible. So as the weeks go by, the betrayed spouse suddenly thinks, oh, I forgot to ask about such and such...like a piece of the puzzle. And then that bit of information gets incorporated into a larger whole.

Again, trickle truth plays a big role here. If, while processing information, the betrayed spouse discovers a new lie, then they sometimes feel they have to start over from the beginning, because their new, fragile version of reality just cracked again.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Remember folks are on this site b/c they have been betrayed and there is alot of hurt coming from there replies.

Look at the amount of post some vets have and those are the one that really want to help. Either they made the marriage work or they didn't but for the most part there are a few of us that can help with our experiences and perspectives.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sometimes it can be hard to produce past information on the spot. You may want to talk to your husband about starting a journal in which you can write the details from your 5 year affair as they start coming back to you and that he can read whenever he gets a chance.

You may want to click on the Links below my signature and go read some good information that can help the two of you recover from the ordeal. They are not a substitute for good counseling which is what the two of you need right now.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

OP you say "he loves you and doesn't want to leave".
After five years of cheating, why are you still with him?
Are you still there because he can support you financially?
Or, are you still with him because he's easy to pull the wool over his eyes while you do whatever you wish?
He's asking for details because he's trying to find out if the other guy could do for you that which he has never done and can't possibly do.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

To you the affair was sex

To your husband the affair was about betrayal rejection humiliation and lies. For 5 years you chose another man over him. 

So now he is desperately trying to find how he can possibly trust you again. To do that he needs to know how you betrayed hI'm. What ways you did it. How you pulled it off. What you did with the OM. When he finally knows that he can begin to plan on how to protect himself from those things in the future and what to be on the watch for from you. 

He is also feeling humiliated and rejected as a man. You chose the OM over him for 5 years. 

He is also believing that you are wanting to continue choosing the OM over him. Have you told him the OM details? Have you chosen to protect the OM ? Or have you told the OMW? Btw outing the OM as a fellow cheater to his wife is a huge demonstration that you are choosing your husband over the OM. Protecting the OM instead shows your husband that the OM is still more important than him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Regret,

What you need to understand also is that this is not about you. Its about your husband and if he can work through this. I'm having a hard time understanding why you question anything he has asked for given the way you've treated him for the past 5 years. I would think if you were truly remorseful you would do whatever it took to reconcile your marriage and heal the one you betrayed.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The only things that conquer dishonesty are honesty and time. He deserves all the truth he asks for. If just revealing the truth hurts you, imagine how the acts you're describing hurt him. Faced with the same, I'd want my wife to come completely clean. Hearing that garbage would really hurt but knowing she still harbored secrets from me would hurt worse. Like home remodeling, you have to get rid of all the rotten wood before you can rebuild anything solid.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> The only things that conquer dishonesty are honesty and time. He deserves all the truth he asks for. If just revealing the truth hurts you, imagine how the acts you're describing hurt him. Faced with the same, I'd want my wife to come completely clean. Hearing that garbage would really hurt but knowing she still harbored secrets from me would hurt worse. Like home remodeling, you have to get rid of all the rotten wood before you can rebuild anything solid.


I agree. If Morrigan had not told me everything we would not have stayed together. As painful as it was to hear I needed every detail in order to get past the affair. It made the mind movies worse for a while but at least I wasn't always wondering.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

_We are very different in that he has a vault that holds every detail of every event and conversation that he has ever had.* I just don't work like that. I remember my emotional state and how I felt*._

How convenient.

My bullsh1t meter is flashing red.

Stick with that line and you will heal neither your husband or your marriage.

Do you want this marriage to work or are you just spending all your time daydreaming about your cheating partner of the past five years?

Most women I know remember the first time they saw someone, the first time they held hands, what each said, etc. So I guess you are the exception to the rule. Are you able to remember the details of your life, your birthday, your anniversary, your friends' birthdays, what you did on your birthday two years ago, etc.?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

If you continue to make your husband pull every detail out of you he will eventually get tired. Tired of pulling and tired of trying to reconcile. You need to make the decision whether to give him what he has already told you he needs in order to heal from your betrayal or continue to be obstinate and potentially end your marriage.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Your husband just discovered that you lied, hurt and humiliated him for 5 years. How quickly do you think he should get over it? What is his quota of questions for 5 years worth of cheating? What areas is he allowed to ask about.? 

Suppose it takes him 5 years of questions and distrust, for him to regain trust, then what? You said he wants to stay with you, why do you want to stay with him? Do you have any love for him and how deep and abiding? Do you think that you were wrong to betray him for 5 long years?. You mentioned that you cheated because he was disconnected have you accepted that he did not cheat on you for 5 years because of your faults? Have you reflected that he may still decide to leave you? 

Many betrayed spouses have a late effect. They try to forgive for a period of time and then decide it is not worth the effort because their spouse will not give them what they need to heal. If you don't love him enough to atone and walk with him in his pain then let him go. I am certain that he will find a woman who will love him just as he is. He will have the added advantage of not having been betrayed by her for 5 yrs and not being blamed for it. 

You have a long road ahead of you. If you are having difficulty now, I doubt that ou will make it. You should be greatful that your husband has initially shown you more commitment and desire to work on the relationship than you have ever shown him. Count your blessing and treat him with empathy and compassion. 

Forget about yourself and focus on him. If you cannot remember details tell him that to give a chance to think about it. Make time to answer his questions willingly and as thoroughly as possible. You say you are frustrated? Hoe can you let a minor feeling like that effect your resolve? You owe him a great deal, you should feel zero frustration. 

If you love him enough show him by word and deed. Be very patient and drop the frustration you have no right. Read books on forgiveness and atonement. Do what needs to be done to be worthy of his love and commitment. I don't think you realize how lucky you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

5 years of cheating? She says that it was for SEX once a month or so. My own wife did this for 6+ years with 3 OM. Our MC gave us a 1% chance of "staying together". She's gone. 

Why even post?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RWB said:


> She's gone.
> 
> Why even post?


She may be lurking and just reading the comments.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Are you regretful simply because you got caught?Are we to assume you would still be in the affair if you had not got caught? Have you and your husband been tested for STD's?
How do you think you would be feeling if the roles had been reversed and he had been screwing his lover for 5 years behind your back and putting your health at risk for STD's and saying it was only about sex?

What gave you permission within yourself to horribly betray your husband and your marriage for 5 years. You truly must have such distain for your husband and marriage to do this for 5 years. Your post acts like it was no big thing since it was just sex. You have a broken moral compass. I do hope you do not have children.

I hope your husband has exposed this to the OM's wife. It is amazing that your husband still says he loves you since you clearly do not love him whatsoever. My hunch is that you continued this affair for 5 years because you thought if you ever got caught your husband would forgive you anyway so there was nothing to lose.

Your husband has been living a lie about his marriage for 5 years. How can you look in the mirror and not feel such shame?. Do you think your husband feels proud and special that you are his wife? Do your husband a big favor and divorce him. This way he can move on and eventually find a woman who can really love and respect him as a man and a spouse since you clearly cannot.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Repetitive questioning by a BS is natural and understandable.
> 
> He needs to regain trust by hearing the same answers over and over. He also fears "trickle truth" so if you've been holding back you need to lay everything out now.
> 
> Read the newbie link in my signature, especially the third post


:iagree:

He may be one of those people who need to know what they are forgiving. This was one damn long LTA. Even once a month equates to having sex *AT LEAST 60 times*! 

I suggest you start out by writing down a time line of the affair. As you get things down on paper or computer, writing a timeline of the affair will certainly help jog your memory. Because of the length of your affair, quite a few events in your marriage may be tainted in his eyes. 

Frankly, IMHO, if you want any chance to save your marriage, you WILL give him what he wants. You found a way to have and hide this affair from your BH for 5 years, you can find a way to help your BH heal. There are no ifs and buts about it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Many need every little detail---so they actually know what happened---and don't have/want to leave anything to their imagination

It is his sub-conscious, that he and now you, are dealing with

You also trickle truthed him, for a period of time---so not only did you come home every night for 5 long years, look him in the eye, and tell him everything was OK, and some of those nights, were after you had your cheap sex, with your lover, that in and of itself---Is 5 yrs. of lies, by omission.

He now knows his mge for the last 5 yrs, has been a farce, he has a wife, who is a master at deception, conniving, manipulation, and lying----what do you want him to think

You better get down on your knees, and thank whoever you want that you have a H., that is willing to let you stay, even after you destroyed his soul, took away his carefree life, wrecked his peace of mind----and more than likely destroyed his trust of all women-----as Bryan says---turn it around, what would you do, if you were the betrayed spouse

I don't know why he is willing to give you this greatest gift you will ever get---the 2nd chance---but you better appreciate it, and give him what he needs---cuz your alternative, is becoming a single divorced woman---on your own, probably having to work long hard hours to make a living, and trying to find a good, decent man, which depending on your age, and location---might not be very easy to do

You had cheap meaningless sex (so you say), for 5 yrs, that's 5 yrs, you treated your H, as a POS---just thank your lucky stars, you are still in this mge, and do what your H., needs you to do, to help him out.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> I have tried to give him as much as I can, but he continues to ask for more and we both get frustrated that I can't give him more. We are very different in that he has a vault that holds every detail of every event and conversation that he has ever had. I just don't work like that. I remember my emotional state and how I felt. It is so hard to give him what he says he needs.


It went for 5 years of regular sex, shouldn't be that hard to remember the details.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

you can cheat , lie, fuc*k and humiliate your husband for 5 long yrs, you are not ashamed of that, but you are ashamed to answer the questions asked by the husband. How many times you shared the details of your sex with your husband to the OM and OM humiliated and both of you laughed on your Husband, knowing the details, you were not ashamed then. you can humiliate him for 5 long yrs, but he should not ask you details and should get over it,* How many days he can have to get over it 5 days as it is only five yrs cheating.* What questions he can ask to get over this? Can you type it and give a questioner to him?

I dont know why your husband is still with you? even after you treated him like a piece Of Horse shi8t for five long yrs.

You stole five long yrs of his life by your lies, humiliation and cheating, why you want to spoil the rest of his life? Divorce him, let him have a peaceful and happy life without lies, cheating and humiliation. At least do this favour for him.

I dont know how she can look into the mirror and live without crashing down on her knees. wah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Regret214 said:


> It is so hard to give him what he says he needs.


And there in lies your problem, YOU CANNOT GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS. In other words it's still about you, so I see no regret at all for your husband. Regret for you getting caught yes, regret for hurting your husband, NOPE.

Be transparent all you want, YOU are still HOLDING SOMETHING BACK that HE NEEDS. So why stay like some have said, selfish!

And therein lies the problem with so many marriages, you know what they need but we either neglect it or CANNOT give it out of selfishness.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She's gone. Which sucks because I honestly hope she would listen and btry to heal this man she stabbed in the souk!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> She's gone. Which sucks because I honestly hope she would listen and btry to heal this man she stabbed in the souk!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

But dont belive that a person who was cheating for five long yrs got any epiphany to do everything to heal her hurting husband.

I wonder How can a [person be so mean to her husband for this long yrs........wow


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Poor joker. If a woman wasted five years of my life having an affair, I wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes listening to her excuses or explanations. I wouldn't give her another day of my life.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She wants to give him what he needs. He needs to divorce her skank ass, and get tested for HIV. Who knows whats crawling around in her.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I have read all of your posts and comments. While I do not agree with everyone, I have taken away some very valuable tools. And, I appreciate those that have provided me with insight. I have been providing my husband with all the details of my EA from the beginning, but needed a way to delve deeper in myself to provide him with answers to questions that I was struggling to find...not because I didn't want to or because I was scared, but because I had tried to lock them out. We have started a journal together and it has provided an opportunity to see in black and white what I did, but is also a great way to generate conversations. In addition, I am working on a timeline that has proved to trigger memories which I also share. Thank you to those who genuinely see hope in every situation.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

What was so wrong with your mge/Hus---that you had to have sex once a month with another man

You say it was for the sex---but every month for 5 yrs----there is more there than you wanna admit

What was so special about this guy and his sex, that made you do this for 5 yrs---or was it just cuz your H, knew nothing never suspected, and you obviously could do this, and get away with it---after awhile it must have also become boring just as your mge---the other guys sex organ, could not have been that much better than your H's---but then again only you would now.

How were you "outed"---and more importantly why did your monthly sexcapade even start up in the 1st place

Did you for some reason, think you were bettering you mge., and your sex life----WHY---deep down WHY

Why was it allowed to go on for 5 yrs---and had you not been outed would it still be going on

Tell us what was so terrible about your H---that you would do this to him??????


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> I have read all of your posts and comments. While I do not agree with everyone, I have taken away some very valuable tools. And, I appreciate those that have provided me with insight. I have been providing my husband with all the details of my EA from the beginning, but needed a way to delve deeper in myself to provide him with answers to questions that I was struggling to find...not because I didn't want to or because I was scared, but because I had tried to lock them out. We have started a journal together and it has provided an opportunity to see in black and white what I did, but is also a great way to generate conversations. In addition, I am working on a timeline that has proved to trigger memories which I also share. Thank you to those who genuinely see hope in every situation.


Have you read the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Your husband could read it with you. It would give you more insight into the overwhelming pain that he's feeling and how hard it is to work past this level of betrayal.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> I have been providing my husband with all the details of my EA from the beginning, but needed a way to delve deeper in myself to provide him with answers to questions that I was struggling to find...not because I didn't want to or because I was scared, but because I had tried to lock them out.


You do realize that the reason you "locked them out" is precisely because you didn't want to remember and you are scared. You didn't want to remember because then you would feel unmerciful guilt. You are afraid of that one detail that triggers your husband and triggers the divorce. Its called trickle truth and you're not unique in utilizing it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> you can cheat , lie, fuc*k and humiliate your husband for 5 long yrs, you are not ashamed of that, but you are ashamed to answer the questions asked by the husband. *How many times you shared the details of your sex with your husband to the OM and OM humiliated and both of you laughed on your Husband, knowing the details, you were not ashamed then.* you can humiliate him for 5 long yrs, but he should not ask you details and should get over it,* How many days he can have to get over it 5 days as it is only five yrs cheating.* What questions he can ask to get over this? Can you type it and give a questioner to him?
> 
> I dont know why your husband is still with you? even after you treated him like a piece Of Horse shi8t for five long yrs.
> 
> ...


This really hit me. My (now) fiance shared with his EA the time I questioned the condom in the trash can. turns out my fiance is not very good at keeping the place clean.

But she also knew that he advised me to get a mammogram. So when she talked about her own health problems, she just had to add "well, at leas tit's not cancer."

She knew my name, age, profession,..... we had even signed up for the same meetup activities. I knew nothing about her.

And yet when he finally revealed information about her and gave me her e-mail address, he berated me for e-mailing her and doing a google search on her. "how creepy".... until I told him that it's no creepier than gathering information the way they did in the pre digital age. 

I guess I feel particularly affected since it seems that my parents always told me that tattle tellers and snitches were not to be trusted. To see other people sharing information and not suffering any consequences make me wonder what my parents were on about.....


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Holy 2 years ago Batman!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> Holy 2 years ago Batman!


yes, but it can still feel just yesterday.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Holy 2 years ago Batman!


I know, I saw the title and got a bit nervous for Dig and you.. 

I was kind of hoping for answers to the jnj last questions, those are things I struggle with the most.. the 5 years, didn't he get boring too, what was so special about someone that'd help you disrespect your husband.. if not caught, how long do you think it would have gone on for, years? eternity?

I feel that when my wife was cheating, she thought she was the sh..t.. she figured she was all that and a bag of chips because she could keep her husband happy, had a marriage and all that, kids a house, and also had a lover, just like you read about in romance novels. Steamy romance, like that fifty shades of grey book only she was living it! She didn't realize people were looking at her thinking "what a tramp", she thought she was desirable and powerful and in charge of her life. Empowered by her affair and her lies.

It took a bit to point out to her that wasn't the case, and instead of being a desired woman she was just some other guys plaything.. he really desired his girlfriend at home more, or he'd have left her and put some real effort into being with my wife on more than just a quick roll for a few hours here and there. She probably felt the same about him.

At some point you would think reality would start to break the fog on it's own.. 5 years is a long time, and I know in my case I just figure it's like everything else that comes with affairs.. 5 is could be 7 or perhaps 10.. because even though I probably got more of the story than most BS get, I'm sure none of us ever get it all.. It remains watered down.

I'd also wonder if you ever realized the abuse your husband was taking, as you were manipulating and lying, did you ever stop and think how wrong it was, and what you were doing to him, or does the compartmentalization prevent those feelings from leaking in while with the AP?

I struggle with fights we had, and how arrogant and adamant she was that I was stupid for feeling what I was feeling and how it was all in my imagination and those types of fights.. fights over her wearing her wedding ring, not saying she loved me anymore, leaving the house without saying goodbye or a kiss.. the coldness. She was starting to be nice to me, and change as far as that went, probably because her affair was getting boring and she was staring to realize I wasn't so bad.. but she was still sneaking off with him.

Thanks if you can answer, I understand if you'd rather not go there.. it's been a long time. You've been so helpful to me, and Dig as well. I'm happy you two are doing good.

Done ranting.. sorry if my posts have been harsh as of late, I'm still struggling with rage phase.. week 3 or 4 or so..


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Apparently I got a lot more info than most - apparently. But I still have a million questions.

Think about this. There was the affair and all the intimacy she had going on with this grub. 

That hurts, but almost as bad is to think of all the family things we were doing during this time. Trips away - one off special family holidays, long weekends; the whole kit and kaboodle. Family.

And all the time she had her heart & mind with this piece of excrement - all the time she smiled for the camera and she was doing that. 

The best family photo we ever had taken was smack bang in the middle of her betrayal. It's still up there on the wall but even today I cannot look at it like I used to. I went to some trouble to set that up - it's a great family pic and to think she had the composure to go through with it.

At least my children look amazing - and that's the only reason that pic is on the wall. 

See how much is taken away? Far more than cheaters ever give thought to. And for what?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

You will never be 100% informed because you can never be sure exactly what they were thinking at the time.


For example, my (now) fiance took a trip with this woman and stayed in the same hotel room. It's not clear that since they were "such great friends" that they had separate beds. My original assumption was that he attempted sex on her and to get out.him to stop pawing on her all night, she advised him to e-mail me saying that she now has a boyfriend and I had nothing to worry about. (I do have the e-mail that was sent just after midnight of the first night of their trip.)

His side of the story is that she was putting the moves on him and when he rejected her, she tried to behave like a friend advising him to send me that e-mail. He has always said that the e-mail to me was her idea. Well, this is possible as well since I gather that she saw sex as a tool more than anything else. And what greater way to create confusion in a man that he still has a chance than by having sex with him.

But I will never know the truth of that incident.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I know, I saw the title and got a bit nervous for Dig and you..
> 
> I was kind of hoping for answers to the jnj last questions, those are things I struggle with the most.. the 5 years, didn't he get boring too, what was so special about someone that'd help you disrespect your husband.. if not caught, how long do you think it would have gone on for, years? eternity?
> 
> ...


I wrote a 3 part thread about my affair. It may or may not help you. If you look under my profile spot and see what threads I started, you can find them there. I'm sorry that you are struggling. I have watched Dig in that spot a few times and all I can do is be there for him 100%.

Which is what I denied him during those years.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Apparently I got a lot more info than most - apparently. But I still have a million questions.
> 
> Think about this. There was the affair and all the intimacy she had going on with this grub.
> 
> ...


My wife let me take her to the jeweler and buy her a new wedding ring since she 'lost' her other one, probably hocked it to buy a hotel room for her first time with her lover. One of those things I'll never know the truth about. She cheated through a couple trips to Orlando that I know of, now I know why she wanted me to go off on my own and kept getting annoyed that I always wanted to do things together as a family and wouldn't just split and go our own ways.. She must've needed to text her boyfriend some photos of her family trip to make him jealous. I loved Universal.. Hard Rock.. too bad I was alone and didn't have someone to enjoy it with, I just thought I did.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Apparently I got a lot more info than most - apparently. But I still have a million questions.
> 
> Think about this. There was the affair and all the intimacy she had going on with this grub.
> 
> ...


Dig does still struggle with this. Especially with vacation pics. Even though we made great memories, they are forever haunted with the ghost of my affair lingering in the background. (Summarizing one of his statements to me on the subject)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Dig does still struggle with this. Especially with vacation pics. Even though we made great memories, they are forever haunted with the ghost of my affair lingering in the background. (Summarizing one of his statements to me on the subject)


Even now there are some places I don't feel the same about when I visit them with my wife, places tainted by the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

That is unfortunately so true. You end up trying to read into a facial expression "What was really going on inside her head?" After getting a (not necessarily "the") timeline on my W's A I can correlate certain events along this timeline with our family photos. Now I know why she's not smiling in that Easter shot from 2001.... Sucks.

Regret, you have my admiration for doing what you've done to rebuild your marriage and for owning the consequences of your own actions. Congrats on having made it this far.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

My wife went to Chinese food with the OM on weekends, and used to bring me home the leftovers.. literally... Thought she was with her girl friends from work, not man friend. I used to enjoy Chinese food much more than I do now.

Thanks for the reply Regret, I also admire your courage to go through this.. I do let my wife know I understand how difficult it is for her too, I know it sucks. She does tell me that it pales compared to the pain she gave me, and that she worries that she's asking too much of me. I think those are good answers.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

These days, my fiance does not like to mention the city that he visited with her in any context. Once he was mentioning the places he had been to in that country and avoided mentioning THAT place.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't want to know what hotel then went to.. I called it motel, she corrected me.. I guess a hotel is more classy.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> These days, my fiance does not like to mention the city that he visited with her in any context. Once he was mentioning the places he had been to in that country and avoided mentioning THAT place.


I wonder if the obvious and deliberate avoidance of trigger factors is also harmful? Keeps the elephant in the room. The place we all want to get to is where any reference to that city or Chinese food or that street or that movie etc. evokes no more than a passing twinge before life goes on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

russell28 said:


> I don't want to know what hotel then went to.. I called it motel, she corrected me.. I guess a hotel is more classy.


Hmmmm, motel, no tell, Holiday Inn, if your gf's not willing, then you ask her friend......


Remember that?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Hmmmm, motel, no tell, Holiday Inn, if your gf's not willing, then you ask her friend......
> 
> 
> Remember that?


I used to disco roller skate to that song.. I'm a fast skater, would get kicked off for going too fast backwards and weaving in and out of the slow people.. I didn't have bell bottoms, but I did have hair like Vinny Barbarino.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Philat said:


> That is unfortunately so true. You end up trying to read into a facial expression "What was really going on inside her head?" After getting a (not necessarily "the") timeline on my W's A I can correlate certain events along this timeline with our family photos. Now I know why she's not smiling in that Easter shot from 2001.... Sucks.
> 
> Regret, you have my admiration for doing what you've done to rebuild your marriage and for owning the consequences of your own actions. Congrats on having made it this far.


Dig also looks and tries to read me in those pics too, so I fully understand what you're saying. He possesses an uncanny mind for details of times, places, dates, you name it. Thank you for the compliment. It's odd to look at this, my very first thread here and see how far I've truly come, but it does make me feel extremely good to know I've done it.  




russell28 said:


> My wife went to Chinese food with the OM on weekends, and used to bring me home the leftovers.. literally... Thought she was with her girl friends from work, not man friend. I used to enjoy Chinese food much more than I do now.
> 
> Thanks for the reply Regret, I also admire your courage to go through this.. I do let my wife know I understand how difficult it is for her too, I know it sucks. She does tell me that it pales compared to the pain she gave me, and that she worries that she's asking too much of me. I think those are good answers.


Not that I'm any better at all, but the xOM and I never had dinner, never went to drinks and never did anything like going out anywhere. It was simply a hook up, which in my mind now, makes me feel like complete crap.

You're welcome for the reply and I will say thank you for understanding that it can be and is difficult for someone who is remorseful for their transgressions during the rebuilding phase. We're still in it. We both agree that reconciliation is a continuing piece of work. 

Thank you everyone for the positive encouragement you have given me (and Dig when he was here). It means a lot.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Damn. 5 years is a long time to have an affair.

How long you been married?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Damn. 5 years is a long time to have an affair.
> 
> How long you been married?


This thread is from 2 years ago.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Sorry to come off harsh there, but every question like that has been answered and I'd suggest reading my other threads to get all of the answers. Also, look up Dig's threads too because those show his side of our story.

Yes. 5 years is a long time. We've been married 14 years.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Sorry to come off harsh there, but every question like that has been answered and I'd suggest reading my other threads to get all of the answers. Also, look up Dig's threads too because those show his side of our story.
> 
> Yes. 5 years is a long time. We've been married 14 years.


In truth, 5 years isn't really all that long.

Why? Because we live moment to moment not year to year.

Our lives are not in years but in a series of moments. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Dig also looks and tries to read me in those pics too, so I fully understand what you're saying. He possesses an uncanny mind for details of times, places, dates, you name it. Thank you for the compliment. It's odd to look at this, my very first thread here and see how far I've truly come, but it does make me feel extremely good to know I've done it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My wife doesn't drink, I think it was also about the hookup with her too.. the escape as it's always called. Similar scenarios, just different locations.. I do think it was extra insulting that she'd be seen with him in public though, going to malls and sitting in that donut shop window, how arrogant.. I suppose it added to the risk and thrill factor.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> In truth, 5 years isn't really all that long.
> 
> Why? Because we live moment to moment not year to year.
> 
> ...


It's 5 anniversaries they celebrated with you.. In my case, a 25 year marriage, it's 1/5 of my entire marriage being a big lie. Feels like a long time to me.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Sorry to come off harsh there, but every question like that has been answered and I'd suggest reading my other threads to get all of the answers. Also, look up Dig's threads too because those show his side of our story.
> 
> Yes. 5 years is a long time. We've been married 14 years.


I'm glad you are a regular contributor here. You have a lot of good input and I feel you can really help a lot of people here because of what you and Dig have gone through.

I know I also speak for many here when I say that Dig is missed and I wish the mods would let him back. If TAM is about helping people, then not having Dig here helps no one.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Horizon said:


> Apparently I got a lot more info than most - apparently. But I still have a million questions.
> 
> Think about this. There was the affair and all the intimacy she had going on with this grub.
> 
> ...


We've got tons of photos from over the years, but I don't want to see any of them, because the first thing in my mind is trying to place the photo within the time frame of the affair. Most are nowhere in the ball park, but regardless, the first thought in my head is the affair.

Our anniversary is in a couple of weeks. I told her I don't want to even talk about it, which (surprisingly) surprised her.

I explained that I'll never again be able to think of our wedding as anything other than a solemn ceremony that was turned into something meaningless. That seemed to get the message across.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

barbados said:


> I'm glad you are a regular contributor here. You have a lot of good input and I feel you can really help a lot of people here because of what you and Dig have gone through.
> 
> I know I also speak for many here when I say that Dig is missed and I wish the mods would let him back. If TAM is about helping people, then not having Dig here helps no one.


Thank you. I try my best to be a contributor. I'm not as good as Dig was, though. He always gave a lot of thought to his posts even when he was in his dark places. I don't have his point of view, so I can only hope to give insight from my end and let people know the havoc that having an affair can have.

I will pass your closing words along to Dig. I know that will mean a lot to him. He did his best to help people in his own unique way and unfortunately his final ban was due to him sticking up for some of his "friends" in the Social forum. That's Dig. I know he would like the opportunity to help people that find themselves here, but he has said before that even when helping people he would often trigger and that his ban was probably just what he needed. That said, I can say that his career now is helping people and he really enjoys it. He works armed security in one of the toughest areas of Orlando and will be attending police academy in the fall. Again, that's Dig.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I found it interesting that your mo was like Mrs. The guys.

In some cases the OM's were offended that she wouldn't go out in public/"dates".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks so much for your patience, Regret. That particular post just resonated so mush for me.

How is your reconciliation going?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Heck, Dig could always write something using you and you could put quotation marks around it and say Dig said, "...."


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Thanks so much for your patience, Regret. That particular post just resonated so mush for me.
> 
> How is your reconciliation going?


26 months and 3 days, we are doing better than I ever thought after those first few days. Especially, the first 24 hours. I thought I had killed us.

We moved out of that house last year and you could visibly see the change in Dig's body language. He didn't slump around any more when watching television. The trigger of that house coupled with the triggers of the hotels were gone. Maybe not fully, but at least it wasn't in his face every single day. Don't forget, we're from a small town area and there was no escaping that.

Truthfully, they triggered me as well. I had extreme pangs of guilt whenever we would drive somewhere. I never really let on to that until we moved because I didn't think it was my place to admit that I triggered in a negative way as well over my idiotic decisions.

I'm not the same person I was 26 months and 4 days ago and neither is he. We've both grown so much and we've done so together as well as in our own respects.

We've both agreed that reconciliation is a constant act and something that both of us will always work on. I can only pray that when he wakes up in the mornings that he looks over at me and still loves me. He says he does. I feel he does. However, I'll always have a small feeling of fear about it.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Heck, Dig could always write something using you and you could put quotation marks around it and say Dig said, "...."


I told him to do that once, and he refused saying that they might ban my account. I told him it would be like 'Confucius Say..." :rofl:


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

I miss Dig


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/89905-bad-days-how-do-you-cope-2.html#post2665793

I had to look for a while to find this. I think this is pure Dig not too long before his ban. I actually enjoyed spending some time looking through his posts for this one. It really made me think of how wily he could get at times when wound the wrong way. :rofl:


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Us BS are lucky we found good spouses that stuck it out with us. Truth be told, we would have bailed on the if they cheated.

Too bad we couldn't be as good to them as they were to us..But 16 years and counting to try and make it up. Well for me 6 years and counting because the 1st 10 years we avoided each other as much as possible and it was all about the kids.

If I was 1/2 the person my wife was, our marriage would have been like a fairy tale.

One day at a time.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

russell28 said:


> *My wife went to Chinese food with the OM on weekends, and used to bring me home the leftovers..* literally... Thought she was with her girl friends from work, not man friend. I used to enjoy Chinese food much more than I do now.



That is piercing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

russell28 said:


> My wife doesn't drink, I think it was also about the hookup with her too.. the escape as it's always called. Similar scenarios, just different locations.. I do think it was extra insulting that she'd be seen with him in public though, going to malls and sitting in that donut shop window, how arrogant.. I suppose it added to the risk and thrill factor.


Or a defence mechanism? See, if she was hiding herself and OM away, that would be acknowledging to herself that she was doing something wrong.


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## raven3321 (Sep 25, 2013)

Regret,

I've always felt that if woman cheats, there is no other option for me....she's out the door. You (and Dig) are a couple who have shown me that if you have a good thing, you don't necessarily just chuck it. I don't know you, but from your writings and Dig's responses, you're a keeper. I believe your's is a love for the ages. For you to have gained the respect and admiration of this jaded bunch is really saying something. 

Besides, being originally from FL, it's nice to hear of something good for a change coming out of the Sunshine State.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

russell28 said:


> It's 5 anniversaries they celebrated with you.. In my case, a 25 year marriage, it's 1/5 of my entire marriage being a big lie. Feels like a long time to me.


Actually, I can't believe I've been with my wife for 25 years. They just flowed by, now I am getting old!


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Five years, god that's a marriage vesting number. I have been with my bride for two plus years. We have a house, bought a new car the other day (thank you military pricing) and have a beautiful, awesome, happy little girl. That's in two years six months. I have a hard time with someone being in an affair for that amount of time. I'm not in your shoes, therefore the day to day of your relationship is not in my understanding, but at what point is your affair your marriage and your marriage your affair. Just my two cents.


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## Morgiana (Oct 18, 2011)

Regret, you aren't able to accept PMs but I wanted to get this to you: Just wanted to let you know that I've come across some of your threads and I commend you for your tenacity in sticking around TAM. I came here because I was looking for ways to heal/deal with my divorce, not ways to get continue to wallow in the pain of it and wish bad things on my ex. Kudos to you, I appreciate your input.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Rottdad42 said:


> Five years, god that's a marriage vesting number. I have been with my bride for two plus years. We have a house, bought a new car the other day (thank you military pricing) and have a beautiful, awesome, happy little girl. That's in two years six months. I have a hard time with someone being in an affair for that amount of time. I'm not in your shoes, therefore the day to day of your relationship is not in my understanding, but at what point is your affair your marriage and your marriage your affair. Just my two cents.


I never saw this comment/question until now, so I'll answer it quite simply...

Because my affair was not an every day deal. I saw the xOM every 2 months or so. He was not part of my daily life and was merely a fix.

My marriage was my marriage. My affair was my affair. Two totally separate things.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Morgiana said:


> Regret, you aren't able to accept PMs but I wanted to get this to you: Just wanted to let you know that I've come across some of your threads and I commend you for your tenacity in sticking around TAM. I came here because I was looking for ways to heal/deal with my divorce, not ways to get continue to wallow in the pain of it and wish bad things on my ex. Kudos to you, I appreciate your input.


Thank you. You're right, I don't accept PM's as I used to get very angry and then stalking ones, so I turned them off.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Regret: Followed You and Dig for a while. I am ASD and I have too few real emotions to know how to deal with my wife's affair. She hooked up with a guy she met on line for sex about every three weeks. I fould two files, one of pictures of them together and one typscript of Emails. Dig helped me to find my emotions and your posts helped me to start to understand her side of things. I doon't know yet if we will get through this but if you do I will owe you a Dig a debt of gratitude. Thank you for sharing your pain and your healling.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Because my affair was not an every day deal. I saw the xOM every 2 months or so. He was not part of my daily life and was merely a fix.


I read your other threads but I would like some clarification. What exactly was this "fix" he gave you? You say it wasn't about the sex but your affair was purely sexual. You say you didn't go out to dinners or date so you weren't looking to be romanced. You say you didn't love him and could of cared less if you never saw him again. 

Yet you screwed him for FIVE years... You say it was an escape. Going to a movie is also an escape, takes the same amount of time and doesn't involve adultery. Was he great at conversation? Again you don't really need to drop your panties to talk to someone. 

I just don't understand what YOU were getting out of this. He was obviously looking for an easy lay which he got in spades. Was it the thrill of getting one over on your hubby? You obviously did this for so long for a reason and you clearly got something out of it that you couldn't get elsewhere. 

Can you specifically define this "fix" in an honest manner for us?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I read your other threads but I would like some clarification. What exactly was this "fix" he gave you? You say it wasn't about the sex but your affair was purely sexual. You say you didn't go out to dinners or date so you weren't looking to be romanced. You say you didn't love him and could of cared less if you never saw him again.
> 
> Yet you screwed him for FIVE years... You say it was an escape. Going to a movie is also an escape, takes the same amount of time and doesn't involve adultery. Was he great at conversation? Again you don't really need to drop your panties to talk to someone.
> 
> ...


I answered everything over two years ago. Research and read if you want answers to your questions. I won't be answering them.

Look at the phrasing of your questions. Can you even see the anger that spews forth?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

By the way, I never once said it wasn't about the sex. I said it was ONLY about the sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> I answered everything over two years ago. Research and read if you want answers to your questions. I won't be answering them.
> 
> Look at the phrasing of your questions. Can you even see the anger that spews forth?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read those threads. You either give vague answers or dodge the questions like your doing now.

That's fine if you don't want to answer, I couldn't care any less not sure why you think I'm angry. Was anything I said not factual?

The bottom line is no one does anything voluntarily for five years without getting some enjoyment out of it. All I'm trying to understand is: you got specifically _______ out of sleeping with this guy for so long. 

Telling to me you can't provide a simple answer.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Thinkitthrough said:


> Regret: Followed You and Dig for a while. I am ASD and I have too few real emotions to know how to deal with my wife's affair. She hooked up with a guy she met on line for sex about every three weeks. I fould two files, one of pictures of them together and one typscript of Emails. Dig helped me to find my emotions and your posts helped me to start to understand her side of things. I doon't know yet if we will get through this but if you do I will owe you a Dig a debt of gratitude. Thank you for sharing your pain and your healling.


My first reply was to short. LOL

It makes me happy to hear the positive side of what we have gone through when it appears to help someone. Reconciliation is extremely difficult, extremely trying and one of those things that isn't for everyone. 

Dig has always been one of those people who, when he was growing up, got the crap kicked out of him every day by his step father. He saw what it did to his mother and he vowed to never be like that man. So, he chose to be himself. 

I'm extremely grateful for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> By the way, I never once said it wasn't about the sex. I said it was ONLY about the sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not what you said before.



Regret214 said:


> For me it was not even about the sex, it was an escape.


I was looking for honest insight. I'm clearly not going to get any here. Sorry to waste your time. Not looking to start a fight. Take care.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I read those threads. You either give vague answers or dodge the questions like your doing now.
> 
> That's fine if you don't want to answer, I couldn't care any less not sure why you think I'm angry. Was anything I said not factual?
> 
> ...


I could give a rat's ass what's telling to you.

What's telling to Dig...well, that's a different story.

I've answered the question quite a few times and if you're unable to do a little due diligence, don't blameshift to me not giving you answers. That's comical.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> I could give a rat's ass what's telling to you.
> 
> What's telling to Dig...well, that's a different story.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you're spewing anger. I looked, it's not there. I can't find something that doesn't exist. 

All you express is vague terms like "fix", "escape", etc. Many things fit those categories. Obviously, there is something specific to adultery that couldn't be sought elsewhere. 

I just wanted to know what. You seem to have no answer. I have assumptions but I'll keep them to myself.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> That's not what you said before.
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking for honest insight. I'm clearly not going to get any here. Sorry to waste your time. Not looking to start a fight. Take care.


Ummm...the sex was the escape. Is it really that difficult to comprehend?

Look, I realize the female waywards lately are thinned out, but please...let's not dredge up two year old dirt to satisfy your needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Not sure why you're so angry. I looked, it's not there. I can't find something that doesn't exist.
> 
> All you express is vague terms like "fix", "escape", etc. Many things fit those categories. Obviously, there is something specific to adultery that couldn't be sought elsewhere.
> 
> I just wanted to know what. You seem to have no answer. I have assumptions but I'll keep them to myself.


Ego feed. It's been said before. There, I'll spell it out for you. LOL

ETA...feel free to assume to your heart's content. Just remember that I'm not the wife who screwed you over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

By the way BD...my hostility was a direct result of YOUR condescending and rude questioning. You might do better at learning how to ask questions if you want answers. Might be that's why you never got yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Ego feed. It's been said before. There, I'll spell it out for you. LOL
> 
> ETA...feel free to assume to your heart's content. Just remember that I'm not the wife who screwed you over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With comments like that, I guess the ego hasn't gone away either. Tell Dig I said good luck.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Regret,
I get that you don't want to drudge up two year old history, however, this is an old thread, in CWI. Why be surprised people who didn't follow you from years ago have questions? If all you want to really address is the reconciliation aspect of your relationship, then why keep this thread going? Just start a new one.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Pluto, I didn't resurrect this thread. I don't need to start another one to be honest. Hell, I don't want to start a thread in CWI. I find it interesting though that only a betrayed is seemingly allowed to show "anger" or "frustration" in this place, however as soon as a wayward does...holy f-ck, you'd think the earth stopped turning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

the power is yours.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you could ask a mod to lock it, just a suggestion


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Deejo or Amp...Wonder Twin powers activate!!

Someone take the form of locking this thread, please.

Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Done.

The resulting bans were not from reported posts.

Baiting or inciting another user is a bannable offense.


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