# The Continued Gradual Downward Spiral



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Some of you have followed my 4 year saga. I would say that at this point my W and I are at the best place we will be and I can either live with it or move on. Presently I am pretty much indifferent towards her and the relationship. I believe she has me right where she wants me.

Last week I flew out for my daughters graduation and to move her back home. My W decided she could not make it (this is really the busiest time of the year for her). She also have been away from here job for a week previously for a conference and she just had oral surgery (These things really take a toll on her) So it made sense that she stayed and this was D1's Masters Graduation so it is not like she has not been there for her before.

On Friday evening I called and she was not there but called to say hi and that she had been out with her friends (girls click from work ,,,,, not friends of our marriage in my opinion) but was tired and feeling run down from her oral surgery and was heading for home.

About 90 minutes later I was awakened by my phone and it was D2 wondering how come she could not get a hold of my W. I mentioned that she had been out with friends but would text her and get her to call (which she did). The next morning I called and she did not answer which is odd for her on a Saturday morning at 9. She called me early evening and said she was feeling very ill and looking to go to bed. Sunday was evidently a bad day for her as well. 

We arrived home late Sunday evening after a whirlwind 4 state tour in the lovely rental truck. This morning I was catching up on my online banking and noticed that her "Dinner with the girls" on Friday night was on the coast about 90 minutes away and that she stayed at the Beach house or her friends overnight.

Tonight I asked her why she just did not tell me this is where she was going and what she was doing. She said she did not think it was important. Ok I said but why did you make up a story about dinner being done and you needing to get home because you were not well. She said she did not remember it that way. She said none of it was really important.

So is that how it works with your SO. If you are away from home and they go away for the night you could care less and would not think it would be important to be aware? Just curious.

Six months to a year ago I would have been angry. Now I really could care less. I am just annoyed. To me it is a respect and courtesy issue. I understand that these are the people she gets her emotional bank account filled from but good heavens do you have to rub it in?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Either provide some consequences for the behavior that bothers you or accept it and let it go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> Either provide some consequences for the behavior that bothers you or accept it and let it go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I stated I was annoyed. She has made it quite clear how important her relationship is with these women and that relationship takes precedence over ours. For the time being I have accepted that. I am still interested to know how others would perceive her actions.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm not sure I understand. I do not know your whole story, but it's obvious she doesn't love you and has little respect for you. She did what she did (went out partying with the girls and lied about it) because she could. Why tell you and face potential drama? 

you describe a marriage where you would expect a woman to act like that then wonder why she acted like that?

I perceive her actions as disrespectful. I perceive her actions as though she is acting like she doesn't love you or care what you think. And that's BEFORE she lied about not even REMEMBERING she lied.

She acted exactly like you would expect your wife to act. I'm not really sure why you're even asking.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She lied. She's a liar. You would have been within your rights to call her on it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@rclawson, how would you have responded had she told you the truth?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Lila said:


> @rclawson, how would you have responded had she told you the truth?


I would have said "ok have fun". Truly


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

it sounds like she has a separate life from you and you have a choice to either accept and realize you will be a second class citizen to her, create a separate life for yourself and stay married or move on....those are you options.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I perceive her actions as disrespectful. I perceive her actions as though she is acting like she doesn't love you or care what you think. And that's BEFORE she lied about not even REMEMBERING she lied.
> 
> She acted exactly like you would expect your wife to act. I'm not really sure why you're even asking.


This is what I believe. Just needed validation I guess.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Xenote said:


> it sounds like she has a separate life from you and you have a choice to either accept and realize you will be a second class citizen to her, create a separate life for yourself and stay married or move on....those are you options.


Concur. This is exactly where I am at.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

RClawson said:


> I would have said "ok have fun". Truly


You and I are clearly different people. In your shoes, I would have demanded to know why she was well enough to go out all night with friends but not well enough to attend her daughter's graduation. 

You may be ambivalent or not, but I'm willing to bet that this situation won't remain in suspended animation for long. It will deteriorate further, she will become more interested in her separate life and may even meet a new man (if she hasn't already.) Do you feel like you are just marching in place while waiting for your wife's next few moves?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Xenote said:


> it sounds like she has a separate life from you and you have a choice to either accept and realize you will be a second class citizen to her, create a separate life for yourself and stay married or move on....those are you options.


this is my reaction too.

she lies to you and prefers hanging out with her friends over participating in family events. no offense, but you are clearly not a big priority for her.

it would be a misallocation of resources to invest more emotional energy in this relationship.

accept that you are not important to her. she will casually lie to you and do what she wants. expect this. this is who she is. 

on the plus side, you are free to blow her off whenever convenient.

you may find if you treat her as casually as she treats you that you can actually manage to enjoy certain aspects of your relationship.

maybe she is just like an unreliable friend who is fun to be around once in a while but who you know you can't really count on.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Why don't you try treating everything she says as a lie? It's a little juvenile but next time she asks you to do something ignore her and when she brings it up tell her that since she's shown herself to be a liar you just assumed she was lying. 

There's consequences for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why don't you try treating everything she says as a lie? It's a little juvenile but next time she asks you to do something ignore her and when she brings it up tell her that since she's shown herself to be a liar you just assumed she was lying.
> 
> There's consequences for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seems fair...a bit passive aggressive, but who cares.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

RClawson said:


> I would have said "ok have fun". Truly


I'll bet a lot of people don't believe you. I do. I know exactly where you are. I'm there myself. 

And I understand your desire to be validated. My wife still, AMAZINGLY, insists she's still all-in. Sometimes she even acts that way. Rarely, but it does happen. But most of that time I spend justifying my decision in my own head.

But I am truly at a point where I don't care what she does.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RClawson said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > @rclawson, how would you have responded had she told you the truth?
> ...



Most people lie about things like this for the following reasons: 

1) they are conflict avoidant. They prefer to lie than argue. 

2) they are compulsive liars. They can't help themselves. 

3) they don't like or respect the person they are lying to. They don't care enough to make the effort. 

If you truly are cool with her activities, then I can't imagine #1 being her problem. So she's either got a mental illness where she lies all of the time or she doesn't really care for you. Pick your poison.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RClawson said:


> I am still interested to know how others would perceive her actions.


To me it says you're unimportant. She doesn't really care what you think. She told the lies because it made things easier for her than explaining the whole thing to you, and perhaps she feared you might become concerned or upset at her being away for some reason.

She just does her own thing, and does it in the way which she thinks will cause the least amount of drama.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

hmm, 

another man. 

is well enough to party with the girls! and stay over night but not to see her daughter graduate with a masters degree.

lies about her whereabouts. can'T get a hold of her????

I smell a rat.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't know your back story. 

She was obviously well enough and not too busy to spend the night partying with her friends, but she couldn't be bothered to travel to her daughters graduation ceremony?

That tells you all you need to know about her character right there. 

That's pretty despicable.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Sounds like she lives her life, you live yours and if she feels like being a part of yours, she'll pop in when she's ready or interested.

My guess is she'll stay until she meets someone she wants to leave for. You have a WW waiting to happen. She has checked out. She doesn't care if she lies, tells the truth or if her priorities don't include you or if you feel hurt by any of it.

Good thing you have also disengaged as much. Why bother being roommates and waiting for the other shoe to drop? Put a knife in it already. Or give an ultimatum for your relationship and mean it.

ETA I give my friends and family and boyfriend-ish dude more consideration that that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Sounds like an affair. Time to get the. Var back out.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

RClawson said:


> Concur. This is exactly where I am at.



let me ask you this, if she never changed the rest of your married life, would you still want to stay with her? if the answer is no, then what are you waiting for. If the answer is yes then find separate friends and hobbies and be happy.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If one of my kids was graduating with a masters and my H bailed on the event to stay with friends overnight at the beach (oral surgery notwithstanding), I would kick him out for good.

What kind of parent does that? An unfeeling one, imo.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Xenote said:


> let me ask you this, if she never changed the rest of your married life, would you still want to stay with her? if the answer is no, then what are you waiting for. If the answer is yes then find separate friends and hobbies and be happy.


this.

she's not hiding what her values are. you have a very clear choice.

either direction could be OK depending on how realistically you treat it.

for example, you could just treat her as a FWB who you don't really invest much in emotionally.

if you could pull that off, it might be OK.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> hmm,
> 
> another man.
> 
> ...


I was thinking this exactly. This has OM written all over it.

If her oral surgery was so bad she couldn't go to the graduation, how did she manage to party all night with the girls? She lied about where she was. She didn't answer the phone a few times for both you and your daughter. Red flags flying high.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

RC, you have already told us the answer you know in your gut. 

You already think those women are not friends of the marriage.

Then she flat out lied. There needs to be a price on lying. Right now you complain but she does not feel a pinch.

The deception is not something I could ever accept from a partner. Even if she was not out screwing some guy, broken trust is the death of a relationship. And usually what you know is the tip of the iceberg.....

You are in the marriage still because of family and finances at this point. At some point you need to accept things and start to extract yourself. I know easier said than done but if you were my brother id be telling you the same thing. And I'm not one of those divorce divorce divorve people.

I think this situation you are in is unrecoverable. Feel free to pm if interested as some things I would like to say and share are not PG rated and probably be best said 1:1

I can relate so easily to your situation,

Do you do hobbies or have couple friends you can hang with one or two nights per week? Start there. Work on YOU bud.



RClawson said:


> Some of you have followed my 4 year saga. I would say that at this point my W and I are at the best place we will be and I can either live with it or move on. Presently I am pretty much indifferent towards her and the relationship. I believe she has me right where she wants me.
> 
> Last week I flew out for my daughters graduation and to move her back home. My W decided she could not make it (this is really the busiest time of the year for her). She also have been away from here job for a week previously for a conference and she just had oral surgery (These things really take a toll on her) So it made sense that she stayed and this was D1's Masters Graduation so it is not like she has not been there for her before.
> 
> ...


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

RC, anon is spot on and when your wife is playing with the girls before attending a daughters graduation that is f_cked up. Even for grad school as a parent some things only happen once in life. Most parents cherish life accomplishments of their kids. 

I can't even imagine. I'm sure your daughter would not be too happy to find out as well.

You really need the classic "man up" and stop being the family guy. Your daughters know that dad is there for them. Do not do a single thing for your wife. Full 180 and start extracting.

Contact lawyer to protect your finances.

Cancel any joint credit cards and open an individual account and bank account. Move all cash to that account. Obviously she will be entitled to half so don't just blow it but put her in corner. 

Do not debate or argue with her. Pointless and will just wear you out. Anything she tries to tell you just say, "yup you're right"

She is not behaving like a wife. Don't treat her like one. 






Anon1111 said:


> Xenote said:
> 
> 
> > it sounds like she has a separate life from you and you have a choice to either accept and realize you will be a second class citizen to her, create a separate life for yourself and stay married or move on....those are you options.
> ...


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Yup. As he describes would be a deal breaker for me. I have to wonder how the daughter felt with mom bailing on major life accomplishment.

deception and lying and skipping out on your daughters graduation. Sounds like selfish individual.



alte Dame said:


> If one of my kids was graduating with a masters and my H bailed on the event to stay with friends overnight at the beach (oral surgery notwithstanding), I would kick him out for good.
> 
> What kind of parent does that? An unfeeling one, imo.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RClawson said:


> As I stated I was annoyed. She has made it quite clear how important her relationship is with these women and that relationship takes precedence over ours. For the time being I have accepted that.* I am still interested to know how others would perceive her actions.*


I would perceive her actions the same as you did.. no courtesy or respect for YOU as her husband.. 

I feel a willing / giving transparency is vitally important in a healthy marriage.. when this starts to slip.. or if it never was.. so many things can be going on -under the surface that festers and messes with a couple's intimate connection to each other.. that free flowing sharing.. that SHOULD BE.. inviting each other into our lives, and experiences.. yes.. even when we're away from each other.. 

I would be hurt , like a slap in the face to some degree.. if I was met with a spouse feeling such things were not important.. I see that as a brush off.. to deflect.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

They point where you don't care is where you begin to get your sanity back.

I look back and wonder why I took so long to get to that point. It really is the point where things inpeove.



MachoMcCoy said:


> RClawson said:
> 
> 
> > I would have said "ok have fun". Truly
> ...


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. I will be getting back to this later


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I have to go back an remind myself from your posts. I recall parts of your back story.

Is their past history of affairs as I seem to recall there have been boundary issues and she has some porn addiction, etc. Want make sure got my memory right.





RClawson said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I will be getting back to this later


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> I have to go back an remind myself from your posts. I recall parts of your back story.
> 
> Is their past history of affairs as I seem to recall there have been boundary issues and she has some porn addiction, etc. Want make sure got my memory right.


I am pretty confident she had an EA with Plan A. I have never had any evidence other than circumstantial and endless red flags. She had about 3 years of very uncharacteristic behavior with porn and 50 Shades type fetish stuff. That stuff all ceased about 9 months ago which is when I believe her EA shot off completely.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks to all of you for your feed back. There is no EA or PA and no need for the VAR. Been there, done that with nothing incriminating exposed.

The bottom line is what almost all of you are saying. She is a selfish individual who values her relationship with her friends over her family. I have been more than patient and saw a glimmer but she is on cruise control and I really have no idea what she gets out of her relationship with me.

I will be discussing separation with her for the summer after her work ends. I believe she needs a wake up call and if that does not do it the end is near.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

RC, as I read your plan you are straddling the fence.

You need a much more decisive plan. You're punting this down the road based on what you are telling us.

Sounds like you still want the marriage? Luckily your kids are older and if your wife if being the @ss that it appears she is, your kids already see it, trust me.

Don't make things even remotely comfortable and if you give her a separation she's just going to find someone to fill the gap.

Swift action, 180, at a time that is not easy or convenient is far more effective at flushing out how committed she is to the marriage.

When you start ignoring your kids to go hang out and disappear for a night that's tsunami warning right there. I suggest you make things painful for her not for the point of being spiteful but to wake her up or to set yourself free from her.

My advice? Formally file for divorce. You can always postpone the proceeding or dismiss the case but you need to really put her feet to the fire.

Your case calls for the 180. NOW.



RClawson said:


> I will be discussing separation with her for the summer after her work ends. I believe she needs a wake up call and if that does not do it the end is near.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think that in most marriages a person would inform their spouse that they were spending the night elsewhere. The thing here is that you don't have a normal marriage. Your marriage sounds more like two friends living together. In that sort of situation you might inform your friend if they were home, but if they were away, it wouldn't really matter.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

RClawson said:


> Thanks to all of you for your feed back. There is no EA or PA and no need for the VAR. Been there, done that with nothing incriminating exposed.
> 
> The bottom line is what almost all of you are saying. She is a selfish individual who values her relationship with her friends over her family. I have been more than patient and saw a glimmer but she is on cruise control and I really have no idea what she gets out of her relationship with me.
> 
> I will be discussing separation with her for the summer after her work ends. I believe she needs a wake up call and if that does not do it the end is near.


too weak. just start separating your finances start doing things you like to do. and ignore her and her needs totally. treat her like she treats you. like an insignificant bug. file without giving any explanation. she will know why. and she most likely will be relieved. then move on to happier times.


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