# Breaking my heart but heading for the big D



## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

This will really be a long story. Begins back in the 90s with me living in Japan. Met my wife to be (Japanese) and we got married a little over a year later. During the first 5 or so years of our marriage I was not a good husband at all. I will leave it at that. We almost broke up over it all but I promised that, if given the chance, I would change my life around and be the good person that I could be. I returned to the U.S. while the family stayed in Japan. I kept my word and since then have done all that I could to be the good person that is needed to head a family. I was alone here in the U.S for 18 months before they came over to join me. I got promoted and we relocated to the east coast. I finished my degree and was promoted to programmer/analyst. Time passed by and our kids moved out. About five years ago I was riffed from my position and then had to train my replacements in India (3 of them). I decided at that point to make a change in my profession as I saw how precarious the software business was (I was 7 years from retirement when riffed). I decided to try property management and struck a deal to oversee the building of a sustainable ranch. This did require me to be in a different location from my wife. This contract lasted two years and I learned a great deal. I moved back to our home and decided to buy a small ranch (about 100 miles from our other home) and make it into a sustainable retreat. I have accomplished this and am still here. I am now learning how to grow organic blueberries at a nearby farm and this has become a job where I work with some very good people. 

My wife is a nurse. When she and the family arrived from Japan I have done everything in my power to help her achieve her goals. She started as a waitress, then a nursing assistant, then got citizenship, then nursing license. She then got a nursing position at a regular hospital, then a contractors position on base and then a nursing GS job. This has been her goal since she arrived. I have done virtually all the paperwork for all as you probably all know how impossible it is for a non native speaker to make sense of govt documents. 

All seemed to be going well with no problems. 2016 was a great year and I felt our marriage was doing very well. Last year and early this year the probate was cleared on my parents will. This ended up putting us in very good financial position. We owned all our properties and had no debt. In my mind this was an excellent thing for our marriage and reduced financial worry to almost nil. 

Well, in feb of this year as we were preparing to take a trip to visit our daughters, out of the blue, she completely blew up at me. I had thought at the end of 2016 that she was getting emotionally close to someone else because she didn't seem to be sharing as much with me any more. The blow up was a wake up call though. She had never treated me like that before and so I thought something must be really wrong. She blew up over a very small thing and then when I asked if she was really upset about that she started giving me the finger and swearing at me. She had never done this before. Much silence ensued and while driving I pulled over and asked if we were ok and what was wrong. That is when she said 'if you want a divorce you can have a divorce'. Wow! I was floored. I had never brought that up. We smoothed things over and made it through the trip without further issue but all that happened remained in the back of my mind. 

So as not to make this too long of a story I will try to be a bit more brief. She started getting more secretive and more detached. She started being very curt at times. She started talking about needing space and wanting to be alone. I found that at the end of march she had not worn her ring to a sports event she was participating in and made up a story to give her every chance to be honest that she had not worn it. She did not take the opportunity. She lied. When she got back I confronted her and started talking about some boundaries I expected of her and she balked at them and called me controlling. She again stated how she was thinking she wanted to be alone and didn't want to be controlled. Well, I was and am living 100 miles away and had been visiting a couple of weekends a month. I told her I would move back home and get another job if it would help make our marriage better. No, she did not want that. Made an excuse that my health was much better out here. I bought and read books on better communication, perimenopause/menopause and its affect on women her age, books on EA's and PA's with the hope that I could come to understand what was going on. 

Long story short, I find she first had an EA and then PA with fellow sports guy (won't mention the sport as many people know many others locally). He is married too and for longer than my wife and I. I have talked to his wife and I guess this is not his first go around. She plans to divorce him but not for possibly a year because of family concerns (this may change though). By the way, she is a very nice, intelligent lady. The only remorse my wife shows is perhaps for getting caught. I just don't see much else. She attacks me and has tried to blame me for all and has brought up the stuff that happened 20+ years ago. So, at this point I see my 25 year marriage going to hell. When I ask what she intends to do she says 'she is thinking divorce'. It is a travesty and I am heartbroken. However, I refuse to be her plan 'B'. I have retained a lawyer. There is much I have missed here. All comments and questions welcome.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Are you sure you want to divorce after 25 years? How about trying counseling first?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The inheritance stays with you sport. Make sure you cut her out of every Penney of it


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

I have thought of that but she doesn't seem to want any boundaries. Also, she said she wanted to split off financially (she makes twice what I do). So, 10 days ago she withdraws more than half of the money in our joint checking account and starts her own private account. She is also switching her direct deposit over to the new account. Luckily, I get alerts so I immediately did the same with most of the remainder. My guess, she is either getting an apartment or an attorney or both. The sum was pretty large. 

From all I have read, she is in the infatuation fog right now and the guy is coaching her.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Yes, luckily I did not commingle most of it. Then again, I did pay off our house mortgage which was a fair amount. What a waste!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you paid off the house, you will get 50% of he equity. So there is that.

Depending on where you live, you could end up with alimony since you earn less than she and yours is a long-term marriage.

It sounds like she is still in the affair. Is the OP still with his wife?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Lose her like a bad habit! You'll be so damned happy you did!

Employ a good piranha family attorney to rip her nasty drawers, get primary custody of your kids, the house, child support, and a more than livable amount of alimony!*


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> Are you sure you want to divorce after 25 years? How about trying counseling first?


I think he wants to save the marriage. It is his cheating wife that doesn't want to do a thing to save it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Did you tell her she is not his first affair?


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

To be honest, for about 4 months I have been going crazy. I tried to figure out what was going on. She actually had this guy in our house. That really hit me hard. But at least knowing is better than not knowing. Even though the knowledge of it is very difficult to take. I have not initiated contact since last week except once to text her news of our daughters. It is as if she wants to divorce the whole family. I have never known her to be as selfish and self-centered as I have seen her be during the last 3-4 months. It is as if I don't know her at all any more. When I asked why she doesn't come visit the ranch anymore.....she replies 'my life is in *********'. Which is to say, not with me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> I think he wants to save the marriage. It is his cheating wife that doesn't want to do a thing to save it.


Counseling might help her see things more clearly.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Can you sue him for alienation of affection in your state?


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

JLD- yes I did. She doesn't seem to believe it-she believes him. According to the wife, they are still texting each other daily.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

ABHale- I know our state has the law but I am not sure of his. They are 45 miles apart but in different states.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> Counseling might help her see things more clearly.


Not if she doesn't give a crap.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl- Yes he is, and from what I know from her......he is a silver tongued ***t for brains. But you know limerence.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

getting it together said:


> ABHale- I know our state has the law but I am not sure of his. They are 45 miles apart but in different states.


If tha affair happened in your house, file it in your state. Ask your lawyer about it. Blow him up financially if you can.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

jld said:


> Are you sure you want to divorce after 25 years? How about trying counseling first?


I am sure I don't/didn't want divorce but it seems she does as she is not willing to make any changes to her activities and not willing to abide by boundaries. No matter how nicely I approach a subject I get rebuffed and attacked.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How do you feel about exposure? 

Look, I am not usually a fan of it. But it sounds like your wife is doing something she may really regret in a few years or even months. A heads up to her family, or other people she respects and who have influence over her, might clear her vision.

It just seems like a shame to lose 25 years with someone, especially if you truly love her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

getting it together said:


> I am sure I don't/didn't want divorce but it seems she does as she is not willing to make any changes to her activities and not willing to abide by boundaries. No matter how nicely I approach a subject I get rebuffed and attacked.


The marriage may indeed be over. It is certainly understandable if you just want to file. But there may be a few things you can try first, if you want to.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

ABHale said:


> If tha affair happened in your house, file it in your state. Ask your lawyer about it. Blow him up financially if you can.


Good suggestion and thanks much. When I think of all the lying in the last four months or more. It is crazy. Said with a completely straight face. I am going to have trouble trusting again. I am in my late 50's and don't know if I can or want to again.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

jld said:


> The marriage may indeed be over. It is certainly understandable if you just want to file. But there may be a few things you can try first, if you want to.


I am open to suggestion and all are welcome. I am not chasing her any more. I am not contacting her and have taken steps to protect myself legally. It seems to me if she was at all remorseful she would initiate calls/texts. Not a thing. Of course, I found out from his wife that they both have burner phones. Nice eh?


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

jld said:


> How do you feel about exposure?
> 
> Look, I am not usually a fan of it. But it sounds like your wife is doing something she may really regret in a few years or even months. A heads up to her family, or other people she respects and who have influence over her, might clear her vision.
> 
> It just seems like a shame to lose 25 years with someone, especially if you truly love her.


Well, when divorce papers signed, I could have served at her work. Also, she may get a wake up call when she sees support petition. Thing that irks me is she seemed to think that we could just break up and remain friends, etc. Divorce is way different in Japan. I think she doesn't really have a clue as to what a pain it can be here.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

getting it together said:


> I am open to suggestion and all are welcome. I am not chasing her any more. I am not contacting her and have taken steps to protect myself legally. It seems to me if she was at all remorseful she would initiate calls/texts. Not a thing. Of course, I found out from his wife that they both have burner phones. Nice eh?


Consider giving her family a heads up.

It may not have any effect, though, if she is also in her 50s. She certainly ought to know her own mind by that age.

I am sorry, OP, but it may just be over.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *Lose her like a bad habit! You'll be so damned happy you did!
> 
> Employ a good piranha family attorney to rip her nasty drawers, get primary custody of your kids, the house, child support, and a more than livable amount of alimony!*


Luckily the kids are grown and out on their own. I have not given them the full story but they are not happy about what they have heard thus far. My wife had not talked to them about it yet.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

jld said:


> Consider giving her family a heads up.
> 
> It may not have any effect, though, if she is also in her 50s. She certainly ought to know her own mind by that age.
> 
> I am sorry, OP, but it may just be over.


Good idea, but her family is in Japan. An interesting note; both her Mom and sister are divorced. I thought she was different but maybe not. She will turn 50 within year and I think this is partially due to peri-menopause. I have read some real horror stories about that.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Weird thing...last year I thought our marriage was great and I mean in every way. If I was looking ahead a year from last year this time I would never, even in my wildest dreams, have imagined this scenario. It drives me nuts. Thanks to you all for your input. It really does help reading your comments.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You're on the right path.

If you've not filed yet, get that done ASAP.

Oh, and document EVERYTHING, especially given a) the income disparity between the two of you and b) the fact that she's _already_ started moving money around.

Sorry you're here.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> You're on the right path.
> 
> If you've not filed yet, get that done ASAP.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gus. Yes, not a happy time right now. Some days better than others. I was thinking that a support petition might be a wake up call but have also been thinking that if that is what changes her mind then it is not really a reason to continue. It would not be because she has seen the error of her decisions but for financial reasons. Wow! How did we get here?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

getting it together said:


> Thanks Gus. Yes, not a happy time right now. Some days better than others. I was thinking that a support petition might be a wake up call but have also been thinking that if that is what changes her mind then it is not really a reason to continue. It would not be because she has seen the error of her decisions but for financial reasons. Wow! How did we get here?


Do you really want finances to be the thing that keeps her tethered to you?

Whether she "wakes up" or not, push the divorce through to the end.

It's what needs to happen.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OK, you mentioned that your wife is a nurse and makes twice what you do, so she is supporting the household?

Is she ok with that? It sounds like you made a decision to stop worrying working in your field and grow organic blueberries.

Did you discuss this with your wife? Was she in agreement? This kind of thing really should be a joint decision. 

Can you be more specific about how you were not a good husband? Were you cheating on her? 

I know it was a long time ago but I'm trying to get a feel for the dynamic in your marriage. Things that happened a long time ago can have long term impacts.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Make sure POSOM's BW knows that he is coaching your WW on how to proceed with the D....

She will be next, and needs to start preparing for what this scumbag is up to himself.

Maybe she can get the drop on this sh*tbag and start D proceeding with him before he has his preparations done.

Lmao.....his most likely reaction will be to throw your WW under the bus to rush back and save his own ass from losing everything.

That might wake your WW up to the fact that she is likely to come out of this fiasco all alone, and with you and her daughters despising her.

I promise you, if this turd has done this before, there is already the likelihood that he will never try to leave his BW anyway......but if he sees his BW file and knows he is going to lose her and most of his assets in a D.....he will cast his plaything, your WW, aside in a heartbeat in a deseperate bid to save his own bacon.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

getting it together said:


> I am open to suggestion and all are welcome. I am not chasing her any more. I am not contacting her and have taken steps to protect myself legally. It seems to me if she was at all remorseful she would initiate calls/texts. Not a thing. Of course, I found out from his wife that they both have burner phones. Nice eh?


Sorry this is happening, I am sure she has rewritten your marriage in her head to justify her committing adultery with the OM. I know you want to save your marriage but at the moment she does not. She may never. Though I suspect she might coming running back to you but the damage will have been done.

You have to expose to your family and friends, it is not your burden to carry, let her see the cold day of light.
What is the OM's wife doing, has she exposed to all and sundry too, tell her to. You two should work together on a strategy.
Do your daughters know what she is doing?
Make sure she gets as little as possible from you financially, ask her to leave the house which you paid for.

Get the divorce papers filed and ready, get all your ducks in a row, no begging, pleading etc.
Have you talked to the lawyers about what you might have to pay or vice versa?
Do the 180 and start living your life for you, join a golf club, bike club, etc and get out and about with others


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> OK, you mentioned that your wife is a nurse and makes twice what you do, so she is supporting the household?
> 
> Is she ok with that? It sounds like you made a decision to stop worrying working in your field and grow organic blueberries.
> 
> ...


This is a very good point about events in the past. Women keep things together for family, kids, etc but once they are free of family responsibilities all those demons come back. I know because I am in the same place. My husband's infidelity of 18 years ago bothers me more than his addiction or suspected more recent infidelity because he did it when I was most vulnerable, (just gave birth) and he moved out of the house for 3 months. Told me he needed space but probably really wanted to have the freedom to **** OW. The rage I feel is overwhelming even now. For years I forgave and moved on but it is now just one black mark against him. Do not discount the impact of the past on the present especially for a peri-menopausal woman.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Are you sure you want to divorce after 25 years? How about trying counseling first?


It is generally accepted that counselling when one spouse is actively cheating is not a good idea.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> It is generally accepted that counselling when one spouse is actively cheating is not a good idea.


Generally accepted by whom? And why?

I think counseling can often be beneficial, even if just one person is attending. The therapist may bring up ideas OP has not yet considered, but could help him.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> OK, you mentioned that your wife is a nurse and makes twice what you do, so she is supporting the household?
> 
> Is she ok with that? It sounds like you made a decision to stop worrying working in your field and grow organic blueberries.
> 
> ...


We are both supporting the household yet she is making more than me. Yes, we discussed it all. We both picked the place out. I have been here most of the time for the last two years. As I said previously, I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Only near the very end of the year did I get signs that something was up.

Back then I was drinking and going out. No violence but you can assume the rest. I was really an a**h***. However, I changed my ways as I promised I would. She has brought that up lately. I had already found out about the affair and she didn't know that. During a discussion with her about what was going on, she really went at me about this. I felt very bad as she did share her feelings about it as she hadn't before. I felt so bad I couldn't sleep that night. She knew this the next morning as I looked and felt pretty poorly. I did not bring up what I knew. I felt at that time that her sharing these feelings was a step in the right direction. She told me then, and texted later that I had no reason to feel guilty for what happened a long time ago and that for the last 20 years I have been a great husband and father and treated the family very well. 

I really do believe peri-menopause is playing a significant part in her thinking right now. I also think this thinking is being manipulated by the OM to some extent.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Goddamn she squirrelling money away, generally detached (detached enough to be banging another man), treats the OP like hell, disrespects him but hey tell the OP to exhaust every avenue while his WW screws him over and gets on with her life...

25 years is a good innings chap, but at no point do you deserve to keep getting kicked in the balls and having to smile and say maybe the next kick will be a little softer..maybe when she realises she's kicking me in the balls.

Do what you have to do to protect yourself and your assets.

And stop getting kicked in the nuts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Generally accepted by whom? And why?
> 
> I think counseling can often be beneficial, even if just one person is attending. The therapist may bring up ideas OP has not yet considered, but could help him.


By people who are trained as therapists. And people on TAM who have seen the results of time wasted on marital therapy when the wayward spouse is getting their jollies out of the marriage bed, so to speak.

And individual counselling is, obviously, different from couple's counselling.

A friend who was desperate to save her marriage -she was pregnant with twins at the time whilst her husband was cheating on her with her lesbian best friend -she left her live in girlfriend to move in with the husband- so she organised marriage counselling.

Husband didn't bother to attend, but she was, with the assistance of the counsellor, able to see that there was no marriage to save and that divorce was the only realistic option.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

getting it together said:


> We are both supporting the household yet she is making more than me. Yes, we discussed it all. We both picked the place out. I have been here most of the time for the last two years. As I said previously, I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Only near the very end of the year did I get signs that something was up.
> 
> Back then I was drinking and going out. No violence but you can assume the rest. I was really an a**h***. However, I changed my ways as I promised I would. She has brought that up lately. I had already found out about the affair and she didn't know that. During a discussion with her about what was going on, she really went at me about this. I felt very bad as she did share her feelings about it as she hadn't before. I felt so bad I couldn't sleep that night. She knew this the next morning as I looked and felt pretty poorly. I did not bring up what I knew. I felt at that time that her sharing these feelings was a step in the right direction. She told me then, and texted later that I had no reason to feel guilty for what happened a long time ago and that for the last 20 years I have been a great husband and father and treated the family very well.
> 
> I really do believe peri-menopause is playing a significant part in her thinking right now. I also think this thinking is being manipulated by the OM to some extent.


And the reason she brought up stuff from two decades ago that you didn't have to feel guilty about... was, what, exactly? If she did not intend you to feel guilty, then what was the reason to bring it up? :scratchhead:

Unless she intended to use it to justify her affair, to herself, and realised how self-serving that was?

It would be worth DNA testing the children, even if only to send her a message that she has messed everything up and can no longer be trusted?


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## Ckone1800 (Jul 13, 2015)

getting it together said:


> We are both supporting the household yet she is making more than me. Yes, we discussed it all. We both picked the place out. I have been here most of the time for the last two years. As I said previously, I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Only near the very end of the year did I get signs that something was up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think this is her doing mental gymnastics to convince herself that she deserves the affair. 

Re-writing marital history is a common procedure to help blame shift and squash the guilty feelings. 

I'm not saying that you haven't made mistakes or made terrible choices, but 20 years of a reformed husband does not excuse infidelity. Just know this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> By people who are trained as therapists. And people on TAM who have seen the results of time wasted on marital therapy when the wayward spouse is getting their jollies out of the marriage bed, so to speak.
> 
> And individual counselling is, obviously, different from couple's counselling.
> 
> ...


I read something similar this morning. The couple's therapist was able to show that the marriage was not going to work out.

I think there is value to counseling, however you get there, and whether or not it leads where you wanted it to.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I still have great diffuculty reconciling this way of thinking in my mind. 2+2=9, 2+2=7, 2+2=1, wrong+wrong=right. I cannot fathom it. What you did is not, or should not be, pertinent to her actions. If she felt/feels that your past behavior was intolerable then she should have done then, or be doing now, the right thing. She should explain to you the problem, file for D and move on with life. She is not thinking maturely.

What she is doing is greatly complicating her life. She is diminishing her character buy sullying her word, refusing to be accountable, demonstrating severe selfishness, compromising her integrity and more. These are not the actions of a fully cognizant person. Additionally, she has involved herself with a person of even less moral fiber. A repeat cheater with a proven record of self serving behavior. Again, not prudent for a rational thinking person. She is deeply disturbed and is exhibiting very self destructive behavior.

She is jeopardizing her relationship with her daughters, may I ask what they have done to deserve this treatment? You, according to her, were a cad but what have they done?

There seems to be something that has happened that has altered her ability to reason out and be rational. Or it is possible that she never had that ability but life's demands kept her irrational behavior in check. In either event it places you in a very unenviable position. If you can determine what has caused her mind to become so unreasonable then perhaps, with much IC, she can overcome this issue however, if it is a preexisting condition that only now is rearing its ugly head, then there is really nothing you can do.

I honestly believe that it is the latter for if it were an event it would have to have been severe enough to be life altering. If I am correct and she has always had these tendencies then the best you can do is to leave her to her own devices. She is self destructing and the only way to save yourself is to create a safe distance between you. After 25 years it is a bitter pill to swallow, I know.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She thinks SHE wants a divorce?

She already divorced you. She allowed another man to get close to her, to put his penis in her. 

You did not lose her, she lost you. 

Write her off...She was a bad long term investment.

It took 25 years for her to depreciate herself. She now has no value to you.

Her Intrinsic value and Goodwill have gone to zero. She has lowered herself to the level of dirt.

You did a great job in bringing her "up" in America, help making her successful. Yes, she did her share.

She has now given you her appreciation. Ouch!

She held her feelings in too long and too well. 

You are not a mind reader. She is not a keeper.......anymore, Evermore, Sayith the tail plucked Raven. You can grow a new tail.

Let her eat her TALE and enjoy the raw taste of being alone. I suspect she will return to the Land of the Rising Sun....soon.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> By people who are trained as therapists. And people on TAM who have seen the results of time wasted on marital therapy when the wayward spouse is getting their jollies out of the marriage bed, so to speak.


And by any spouse who has a modicum of self respect and common sense.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> . What you did is not, or should not be, pertinent to her actions. If she felt/feels that your past behavior was intolerable then she should have done then, or be doing now, the right thing. She should explain to you the problem, file for D and move on with life.
> 
> I honestly believe that it is the latter for if it were an event it would have to have been severe enough to be life altering.


How many spouses do we see here who stay when they would have left because of children and finances? I don't think it's a coincidence that she decided to have an exit affair soon after the children became adults and the marital debts got paid off.

The children leaving home and suddenly being a debt free, educated and gainfully employed, property owner are life altering events.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

getting it together said:


> I am sure I don't/didn't want divorce but it seems she does as she is not willing to make any changes to her activities and not willing to abide by boundaries. No matter how nicely I approach a subject I get rebuffed and attacked.


Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It has a pretty good plan on how to handle a situation like this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> How many spouses do we see here who stay when they would have left because of children and finances? I don't think it's a coincidence that she decided to have an exit affair soon after the children became adults and the marital debts got paid off.
> 
> The children leaving home and suddenly being a debt free, educated and gainfully employed, property owner are life altering events.


Indeed. We not only see men do this all the time.....they are regularly encouraged to make plans for when the kids are grown and they won't have CS.

The Japanese are known to be stoic, so she may have been more damages by his earlier actions then he realizes.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Find out who the OM cheated with before, then expose his old affairs to the Hs, perhaps they can do some of your a** kicking for you.

Expose the OM at his work, to his family, friends, facebook, linkedin etc. He is a dog who needs to be put down.

Do it all at once do not threaten or warn.

The OM will throw your WW under the bus to save his own skin and this may break the spell he has your WW under.

Tamat


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Indeed. We not only see men do this all the time.....they are regularly encouraged to make plans for when the kids are grown and they won't have CS.
> 
> The Japanese are known to be stoic, so she may have been more damages by ho's earlier actions then he realizes.


I would not be surprised if this is what is going on.

Add to that his moving away for the last 2 years. Even though she agreed to it, she might not have realized that living apart usually causes a lot of people to lose their emotional connection to their spouse. He probably did not realize it either.

And once the emotional connection gets low enough, this like his past indiscretions come to the forefront of her mind. 

I'm not saying that this excuses her cheating. But it is a pretty typical scenario.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

I am just home for lunch and have been reading your comments. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and ideas. They mean a great deal to me and are very helpful. I will answer more of your questions tonight. Thanks again!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I would have her served at work. 

Stop contact with her. Send a text or email that all communication goes thru email or text. 

Tell the kids the whole truth. They have a right to know.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> And the reason she brought up stuff from two decades ago that you didn't have to feel guilty about... was, what, exactly? If she did not intend you to feel guilty, then what was the reason to bring it up? :scratchhead:
> 
> Unless she intended to use it to justify her affair, to herself, and realised how self-serving that was?
> 
> It would be worth DNA testing the children, even if only to send her a message that she has messed everything up and can no longer be trusted?


I agree. Looking back at that conversation I see it as what you say above. An attempt to justify her own activities. She also embellished the history and added things that weren't true. Then saying what she did the next day really demonstrated the fact that her personality/mood swings are quite extreme right now. Sometimes (we haven't talked for over a week now) she was almost the person I once knew but at the other extreme somebody I don't know at all. I really think she has a mix of perimenopause symptoms and limerence ('in love' infatuation).


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Ckone1800 said:


> I think this is her doing mental gymnastics to convince herself that she deserves the affair.
> 
> Re-writing marital history is a common procedure to help blame shift and squash the guilty feelings.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. When she is in attack mode, she has been very hurtful at times. When I found she had not been wearing her ring during a 3 day sports trip and asked her about it she went into attack mode saying I was controlling and imagining things and how she was thinking she just wanted to be alone because she couldn't have any freedom when I was spying on her and trying to control her. However, it was me that had encouraged her to go and set up the hotel reservation for her and her two friends (women, yes they did actually go). I found out on D-day that her sports partner on that trip is the same person she had EA/PA with. Yeah! Just my imagination, eh? Somebody took a pic of the three women with my wife's phone and she sent it to me. In the pic she is covering her ring finger. No forethought there!! 

One thing that bothers me now is whether or not this is the only time she has done something like this. She wasn't wearing her ring once before (about 8 or 10 years ago) and when I asked about it she said she lost it and that the plumber we had over to fix the bathroom must have stolen it. Looked all over, couldn't find it. I found the story about the repairman a bit hard to believe as I was there most of the time. Looking back there have been a few incidents that I now wonder about that I just took at face value at the time.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I still have great diffuculty reconciling this way of thinking in my mind. 2+2=9, 2+2=7, 2+2=1, wrong+wrong=right. I cannot fathom it. What you did is not, or should not be, pertinent to her actions. If she felt/feels that your past behavior was intolerable then she should have done then, or be doing now, the right thing. She should explain to you the problem, file for D and move on with life. She is not thinking maturely.
> 
> What she is doing is greatly complicating her life. She is diminishing her character buy sullying her word, refusing to be accountable, demonstrating severe selfishness, compromising her integrity and more. These are not the actions of a fully cognizant person. Additionally, she has involved herself with a person of even less moral fiber. A repeat cheater with a proven record of self serving behavior. Again, not prudent for a rational thinking person. She is deeply disturbed and is exhibiting very self destructive behavior.
> ...


Very well said and I find myself in agreement with you. One of you salient points is this sentence:
"There seems to be something that has happened that has altered her ability to reason out and be rational. Or it is possible that she never had that ability but life's demands kept her irrational behavior in check." 

Interestingly, since she started this sport that she is really addicted to (I like it too and initially took it up so we might spend more time together -plan was a failure), it has become like a separate life for her. She is a very good player and so she is quite popular at practice. She gets a great deal of attention...especially from the males I am sure. So, it has become like a fantasy world for her that is totally detached from her family/married life. Once I learned how to play and became a little better I asked (a few different times) to accompany her to a practice. She flatly refused each time stating that they only practice with each other and want better players. I also asked to watch, also no. This was one of the first signs that something seriously wrong was going on in this 'other' world of hers. In addition, her replies were hugely disrespectful and that fact did not even seem to enter her mind. 

Fantasy world seems to be the best description of where she is right now as she seems to want to divorce then whole family.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> She thinks SHE wants a divorce?
> 
> She already divorced you. She allowed another man to get close to her, to put his penis in her.
> 
> ...


I agree SunCMars. Much of what you state above is the most hurtful part of all this.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> How many spouses do we see here who stay when they would have left because of children and finances? I don't think it's a coincidence that she decided to have an exit affair soon after the children became adults and the marital debts got paid off.
> 
> The children leaving home and suddenly being a debt free, educated and gainfully employed, property owner are life altering events.


It has actually been 6 years since our children left. She could have left a long time ago or she could have told me that she wasn't happy and I would have worked to improve our marriage. Instead, she waits to get the GS job, for both my parents to pass and for the inheritance to clear probate. This year in Jan/Feb all disbursements had been made. Coincidence? I am beginning to wonder. Last year, nothing said about dissatisfaction, indeed...I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Was I just getting strung along? What should I think now?


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It has a pretty good plan on how to handle a situation like this.


EleGirl, I will look that up on amazon. You may be surprised at how many books I have read since this whole thing started coming down in February. Books on communication, menopause/perimenopause, emotional affairs, affairs, divorce. Online courses, websites and of course, forums. Jackson's course 'survive your wife's affair' as well. In any case, I have learned a lot about many things. Thank you for the recommendation. I will check it out.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Find out who the OM cheated with before, then expose his old affairs to the Hs, perhaps they can do some of your a** kicking for you.
> 
> Expose the OM at his work, to his family, friends, facebook, linkedin etc. He is a dog who needs to be put down.
> 
> ...


I am considering exposing further. His wife knows and is not surprised. She says she is only waiting til next year for D because their eldest is finishing college.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I would not be surprised if this is what is going on.
> 
> Add to that his moving away for the last 2 years. Even though she agreed to it, she might not have realized that living apart usually causes a lot of people to lose their emotional connection to their spouse. He probably did not realize it either.
> 
> ...


This is one reason I now regret coming out here and doing this. However, as I stated in another post, last year seemed to be about the best year of our marriage. I was thinking things couldn't get much better......wow, was I right!!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

getting it together said:


> It has actually been 6 years since our children left. She could have left a long time ago or she could have told me that she wasn't happy and I would have worked to improve our marriage. Instead, she waits to get the GS job, for both my parents to pass and for the inheritance to clear probate. This year in Jan/Feb all disbursements had been made. Coincidence? I am beginning to wonder. Last year, nothing said about dissatisfaction, indeed...I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Was I just getting strung along? What should I think now?



I suspect she was checked out long ago and planning to leave once the kids were safely on their own ( not likely to come back to the nest) and her financial ducks were in a row. That's now happened. She can walk away self supporting and debt free.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

getting it together said:


> Instead, she waits to get the GS job, for both my parents to pass and for the inheritance to clear probate. This year in Jan/Feb all disbursements had been made. Coincidence? I am beginning to wonder.


 There is nothing to wonder about the timing. You are right, she definitely waited for your inheritance to clear probate.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I suspect she was checked out long ago and planning to leave once the kids were safely on their own ( not likely to come back to the nest) and her financial ducks were in a row. That's now happened. She can walk away self supporting and debt free.


Unfortunately, I think you are correct. It still is heartbreaking to our daughters and me. She may, however, be surprised by the financial outcome.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

getting it together said:


> This is one reason I now regret coming out here and doing this. However, as I stated in another post, last year seemed to be about the best year of our marriage. I was thinking things couldn't get much better......wow, was I right!!


You thought that it was about the best year of your marriage.

Clearly she did not. 

How much time did the two of you spend together last year? I ask because that is not clear from your posts so far.


I'm not saying that this is your fault. If anything, she has as much respopnslibty for the state of your marriage as you do. AND she has 100% responsibility for her bad choice to have an affair. Just pointing out that the two of you were clearly not in sync.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

getting it together said:


> It has actually been 6 years since our children left. She could have left a long time ago or she could have told me that she wasn't happy and I would have worked to improve our marriage. Instead, she waits to get the GS job, for both my parents to pass and for the inheritance to clear probate. This year in Jan/Feb all disbursements had been made. Coincidence? I am beginning to wonder. Last year, nothing said about dissatisfaction, indeed...I thought 2016 was the best year of our marriage yet. Was I just getting strung along? What should I think now?


I'm not sure how you getting an inheritance would be something that would benefit her in a divorce.

Yes, you paid off the mortgage. But you will get at least 50% of the equity in house when it sells. And you might be able lot provide an audit trail to show that the payoff came from your inheritance. Thus you should get that part of the sale proceeds plus 50% of the remaining equity. I've seen that done in some divorces I've worked on. (I've done forensic accounting for some divorces.)


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You thought that it was about the best year of your marriage.
> 
> Clearly she did not.
> 
> ...


She is a great actress then. I returned about every other weekend as she worked every other weekend and I worked during the week. However, the times we were together were very good in all respects and she never said anything about feeling neglected or that there was anything wrong in our marriage. This is one reason I felt (and studied/read a lot) peri-menopause and an ongoing EA had something to do with it. Early this year there was a 180 degree change in her personality. This blog/forum is a good read for those wondering about perimenopause: http://www.theperimenopauseblog.com/35-symptoms-of-perimenopause-she-loves-me-she-loves-me-not/[/URL]
Some pretty wild stories there and some that reminded me of my own experiences. I also took to heart that it isn't about me but is about her. Didn't really help unfortunately.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure how you getting an inheritance would be something that would benefit her in a divorce.
> 
> Yes, you paid off the mortgage. But you will get at least 50% of the equity in house when it sells. And you might be able lot provide an audit trail to show that the payoff came from your inheritance. Thus you should get that part of the sale proceeds plus 50% of the remaining equity. I've seen that done in some divorces I've worked on. (I've done forensic accounting for some divorces.)


Thanks for that info and I think you are correct in that. However, I don't think she is aware of those nuances and I didn't even check until after I found out about the A and she withdrew the money from our checking account.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

getting it together said:


> Thanks for that info and I think you are correct in that. However, I don't think she is aware of those nuances and I didn't even check until after I found out about the A and she withdrew the money from our checking account.


People are often advised to withdraw 50% of all cash and put it into an account in their own name. With today's banking system, there is a good audit trail. So it's not like she is stealing. She just took some of what she will get in a divorce. All that money that she took should go on her side of the balance sheet in a divorce.

She might very well have spoken to an attorney already. If she is being coached, she probably has.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

getting it together said:


> She is a great actress then. I returned about every other weekend as she worked every other weekend and I worked during the week. However, the times we were together were very good in all respects and she never said anything about feeling neglected or that there was anything wrong in our marriage. This is one reason I felt (and studied/read a lot) peri-menopause and an ongoing EA had something to do with it. Early this year there was a 180 degree change in her personality. This blog/forum is a good read for those wondering about perimenopause: http://www.theperimenopauseblog.com/35-symptoms-of-perimenopause-she-loves-me-she-loves-me-not/[/URL]
> Some pretty wild stories there and some that reminded me of my own experiences. I also took to heart that it isn't about me but is about her. Didn't really help unfortunately.


People who get into affairs make this kind of complete personality change overnight without perimenopause. I'm sure that my husband was not suffering from perimenopause when he had a complete personality change upon getting into an affair. We see women posting here and on other sites that deal with infidelity whose husbands appear to have been possessed suddenly by a daemon and whose personality seems to change overnight due to infidelity. And we can look at all you younger women who get into affairs and have the affair fog personality change. Most of these men and women are telling their spouse one day that they love them. And what seems like the next day they are like they have been possessed by the affair fog monster.

I don't think trying to use perimenopause to explain your wife's behavior does you any good at all. I hope you have not told her that you are thinking this.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> People who get into affairs make this kind of complete personality change overnight without perimenopause. I'm sure that my husband was not suffering from perimenopause when he had a complete personality change upon getting into an affair. We see women posting here and on other sites that deal with infidelity whose husbands appear to have been possessed suddenly by a daemon and whose personality seems to change overnight due to infidelity. And we can look at all you younger women who get into affairs and have the affair fog personality change. Most of these men and women are telling their spouse one day that they love them. And what seems like the next day they are like they have been possessed by the affair fog monster.
> 
> I don't think trying to use perimenopause to explain your wife's behavior does you any good at all. I hope you have not told her that you are thinking this.


Very good points all. I did mention it prior to finding out about the affair (she is just shy of 50 btw). I did read some passages from 'The Female Brain' (a very good book) regarding the mature woman. She agreed that some of what she heard sounded like the way she had been feeling. Since discovering the affair I have not mentioned it. It is interesting how some of the changes are so similar between limerence and perimenopause. Absolute selfishness, narcisism and extreme mood swings.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not sure how you getting an inheritance would be something that would benefit her in a divorce.
> 
> Yes, you paid off the mortgage. But you will get at least 50% of the equity in house when it sells. And you might be able lot provide an audit trail to show that the payoff came from your inheritance. Thus you should get that part of the sale proceeds plus 50% of the remaining equity. I've seen that done in some divorces I've worked on. (I've done forensic accounting for some divorces.)


I don't think that's true if their state is community property.

While inheritances are not of themselves joint property it takes very little to comingle. Paying off the house comingles it......it is now joint property.

He can talk to a lawyer but I doubt the part that payed off the house is protected.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

I've understood that inheritances are not community property and are not subject to equitable distribution, they belong to who received it. But commingling funds complicates it. Lawyer up.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I've understood that inheritances are not community property and are not subject to equitable distribution, they belong to who received it. But commingling funds complicates it. Lawyer up.


Once they're comingled they are.

I went through this with my dad because he was terminal when I remarried.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I know for a fact some commingled inheritance can be clawed back in Maryland. The WS is still pissing and moaning 4 years after the fact. The mediator told him so he said "bullshyt". She advised him she helped write the law. Give her name to an attorney when you ask ! 

So ask an attorney in your state.

PS if you live in Maryland I can get the mediator name. Just PM


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> People who get into affairs make this kind of complete personality change overnight without perimenopause. I'm sure that my husband was not suffering from perimenopause when *he had a complete personality change upon getting into an affair. We see women posting here and on other sites that deal with infidelity whose husbands appear to have been possessed suddenly by a daemon and whose personality seems to change overnight due to infidelity. And we can look at all you younger women who get into affairs and have the affair fog personality change. Most of these men and women are telling their spouse one day that they love them. And what seems like the next day they are like they have been possessed by the affair fog monster.*
> 
> I don't think trying to use perimenopause to explain your wife's behavior does you any good at all. I hope you have not told her that you are thinking this.


There is a lot more to life and living that we do not see---> The inner workings and the 'outside" forces that impinge upon 'our water'.

Our bodies are made up of 55-60% water. In that water are ions, chemicals, enzymes, hormones , hemoglobin and the other parts of blood,many trace elements, plus iron.

The Universe is not separate from us. We swim in it. And it affects our behavior. 

Some of the rapid changes in personality have outside catalyst origin. There are timing forces in play also. Sometimes very fateful. We are not separate, we are not free. Somewhat free, if you like.

We did not create ourselves. We must live under specific genetic and universal restraints.

There is a time to be born, a time to reap and a time to die. The reaping and dying are more flexible timewise. We have a collective Fate also. We alter each others outcomes.

Tricky stuff.....this life, this living.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Forget not @EleGirl, his wife is a trained nurse. She knows about menopause and perimenopause. She knows something about human psychology.

With this in mind she is exceptionally guilty of treachery.

This shows a cold heart and extensive planning. She is a calculating selfish human being. I am being nice!

Had she not cheated and just bowed out of their marriage it would speak volumes of her perserverence.

But, not letting her husband know of her [obvious] spite for him and then cheating on him is just a shame. And so unnecessary.

The last year prior to her A, she was a model wife and showed that she was happy.

She has a Janus head......two faces of Eve. The evil face comes out when the full moon rises.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think that's true if their state is community property.
> 
> While inheritances are not of themselves joint property it takes very little to comingle. Paying off the house comingles it......it is now joint property.
> 
> He can talk to a lawyer but I doubt the part that payed off the house is protected.


I've seen people be able to "unmingle" inheritance and other sole property/assets when a clear audit trail exists in community property states. 

He can talk to a few attorneys and see if he can find one, or more, who are willing to fight for this.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Good morning (I think). Again, thank you all for your comments. I feel like I am on a team here and it helps a great deal. I am about ready to head out to work but this evening I will read all and comment more. Thanks very much everyone!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

getting it together said:


> The only remorse my wife shows is perhaps for getting caught. I just don't see much else. She attacks me and has tried to blame me for all and has brought up the stuff that happened 20+ years ago. So, at this point I see my 25 year marriage going to hell. When I ask what she intends to do she says 'she is thinking divorce'. It is a travesty and I am heartbroken. However, I refuse to be her plan 'B'. I have retained a lawyer. There is much I have missed here. All comments and questions welcome.


This is really the only relevant point in your whole story. The rest is just venting which by all means please do.

Your wife is a POS remorseless cheater. You have too much dignity to be plan b. Flip her the bird and tell her, "Sayonara".


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Forget not @EleGirl, his wife is a trained nurse. She knows about menopause and perimenopause. She knows something about human psychology.
> 
> With this in mind she is exceptionally guilty of treachery.
> 
> ...


Very well stated Sun. It says what I feel. It was like she changed completely in a week.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

getting it together said:


> Very well stated Sun. It says what I feel. It was like she changed completely in a week.


 @Andy1001

Not quite. 

Think of a standard mouse trap. It sits there quit and motionless.

But it has tremendous 'stored' kinetic energy bound up in that spring.

All it needs [to snap] is a hungry fat male mouse to unzip its body suit. Unzip his suit and lay his eager penis on the cheese engorged trigger.

She was poised to be taken by the first attractive [to her] rat that smelled her cheese offering.

She was groomed by her hormones, general life unhappiness, the pressures of struggling with life's challenges, the constant attention of male co-workers. And by forces outside her. The outside forces "inclined" her to force change in her life.
She followed the inner pulses and push [that others resist]. The urge to splinter, to separate from her man and her marriage. A seventh house cleaving knife was put in her hands. And cut...she did.
Cut away more than half of her short life. For what? What purpose?-------> Freedom to float on the warm summer breezes alone and unhindered. She left for a dream.

Freedom to relax, to no longer play the marriage game, no longer be accountable to anyone for anything......her job, not withstanding.

She was groomed by her calculating inner clock. She was a clock watcher. She timed this whole thing to a "T"....as others have said.

She [was] a clock watcher, now she is a **** watcher. Clock minus the "L".

The problem with this action of hers is this:

1} You were her rock......now her fate rests on warm quicksand. Keep in mind, this.......her fate led her to *this *crossroads. Not a good fate, *this*.
2} She will now have to rely on the honesty and action of strangers, quick acquaintances, busy relatives, busy long term friends.
3} She will be adrift and alone in a sea of humanity, who either ignore her, ignore her needs Adrift with other humans who want something from her. The common males will want intimacy. They will want to get in her pants. The worthy males are actively looking for worthy females, or are scarred themselves. 

She soiled her panties prior to her bailing out of your marriage. This will come out when she gets serious with other men.

Her best hope is to shun men and live alone....She has a Scarlett A inked just atop her small Asian breasts.

Alas, hope was dashed by her A. 

If all goes well for her......henceforth. Her stature will be reduced, She will be a smaller person of interest. Her family and friends will see her through a *Reduction Lens*. Her intrinsic worth lessened by half.

Half-hearted smiles will appear on the faces of knowing folks...and this antipathy will follow her on her warm summer breeze. 

She will have that itch for her remainder... [life] let it please forget her gone-by days. 

The itch that cannot be scratched. The itch of guilt, the itch of shame. 

A man's [loin based] Calamine Lotion will briefly soothe this itch. It will until it won't...suffice any longer. 

The itch is in her head, where no man or devil can reach. Only time and distance can lessen it. But only a little. A little scent of far away places and new faces can set her mind to some quietude. Curse! The past follows on that breeze, it always does. The painful memories, words and odorous smell always your soul chases. 

*She will not be happy...... she will only be 'differently' unhappy.
*
Many other folks love freedom. They do. Freedom must be won, not taken at the expense of others. Others who love you. 

Marriage is a bond. A bond made with a knot. To separate the marriage properly and with Fateful Consideration, the knot must be untied in daylight. Not cut with a jagged knife taken from the shadows of deceit. The cut ends of the rope will forever fray.....more and more. Unravel. Until the rope shortens and is tie-less, thereafter. 

Alone, on that warm summer breeze with no ties, no anchoring sentiment, no hands grabbing you mid-air, bringing you to a warm lap. No warm hands to stroke you to sleep, to rub the pain from your breasts, kiss your lips while 'their' tears of joy run down their cheeks onto your's.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> @Andy1001
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> ...


That was excellent. I want to cut and paste on an email and send it to her. I, too, believe that is how it will be for her. I just finished a conversation with her a couple of hours ago and will post my take on it in my next post. Thanks for the above.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

SunCMars-I don't know who to attribute that passage to but it is great and spot on. I talked to my wife today for about two hours. This after not talking with with her for about 10 days. I charged/neutral-180'd. I told her I had a question to ask face to face. I asked 'I just want to make sure whether or not divorce is the path you want to take? I stated that either way is fine with me. She stated divorce and I think she expected me to get really upset but instead I said 'OK, I understand'. She asked if I was eating and sleeping ok etc. I said I was doing fine. We talked about different types of divorces and how expensive they might be. She want an amicable split (of course). Says she doesn't want us fighting or being bad to each other. She also says she wants a collaborative divorce. I told her that is fine if possible but that I was not going to roll over and take it in the @$$. She knows what will come out if we end up going to court and she knows it will be expensive. I certainly haven't gotten over this but I am resigned to it and ready to move on. There is no hope here. I do think she just wants her freedom to be a butterfly or whatever. So be it. Waste of 25 years.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

​


getting it together said:


> Very well stated Sun. It says what I feel. It was like she changed completely in a week.


 @SunCMars is usually spot on. Let me clue you in on one thing.

She didn't change in a week. You were just oblivious.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

BetrayedDad said:


> ​ @SunCMars is usually spot on. Let me clue you in on one thing.
> 
> She didn't change in a week. You were just oblivious.


Yes. You are probably right. Earlier today I was looking through some of my things and I found a birthday card from late 2015. She wrote in it in pen: "Dear *****, I'm lucky to have a husband like you. I love you sooooooo much!!" and then her name and the date. It only makes me wonder how we got from there to here. Really only 16 months from that card to the start of hell and sadness for me and our marriage. I guess it shows how the fog of limerence can warp a person's mind and decision making process.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

The wife of the OM called me yesterday out the blue. We have talked in the past but it has been about two weeks now. She stated yesterday that her husband came up to her and stated that he was going to visit my wife because he missed her so much as he hasn't seen her in a while (they have been texting a lot each day though). I can not understand the OM and OMW relationship. Once she found out about the affair he has been pretty open with her about what is going on. I guess he has done stuff like this before so she is just biding her time but I wonder if he thinks she would never file on him? Anyway, she told me that my wife has been telling him how scared she is of me and that I drop by the house whenever I want and that she has been taking shooting lessons for self defense. Wow! What a bunch of phooey! I live about two hours away and I visit our house about once every two weeks and have never treated her poorly. I think she is white knighting this guy. I also found that my wife's best friend and another older guy friend knows about her affair (not sure about that but probable). She also said that my wife told her husband that stbXW said we were getting a divorce and that she was moving back into our house now. However, she had never moved out!! She also stated that my wife told him that she had told our daughters about the OM. That is also false. OMW said that her husband is not planning on getting a divorce but only plans on legal separation and does not plan on marrying again. OMW said he did not tell my wife of those plans. Really just totally crazy.....all of this. I told OMW that she should file for D and expose him to all.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

getting it together said:


> Yes. You are probably right. Earlier today I was looking through some of my things and I found a birthday card from late 2015. She wrote in it in pen: "Dear *****, I'm lucky to have a husband like you. I love you sooooooo much!!" and then her name and the date. It only makes me wonder how we got from there to here. Really only 16 months from that card to the start of hell and sadness for me and our marriage. I guess it shows how the fog of limerence can warp a person's mind and decision making process.


I wouldn't read too much into that..... it's generic stuff anyone could put on a card. 

Especially if they weren't ready to drop the bomb.

Doesn't necessarily represent how she felt. 

It is dishonest but happens a lot. 

We've seen many threads where one spouse tells the other they love them right before they leave for the other man/ woman.

Talk is cheap.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

getting it together said:


> OMW said that her husband is not planning on getting a divorce but only plans on legal separation and does not plan on marrying again. OMW said he did not tell my wife of those plans.


Of course he does not intend to marry her.He wants her naked in his arms and little more. He knows she is unstable and is not marriage worthy.

Then again, your STBXW could be making this an exit affair.....I doubt this...with no proof. Just a hunch from the bunch here and your posts.

She has deep [end over heels] feelings for this pretty puddy smoking piano player.

She fingered her self destruct button. Located [under the tarp] behind the man in the boat.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

...


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

alte Dame - I believe you are quite right about most of what you say. I have seen guilt and sorrow from her regarding the A and how she treated me. I do not see much in the way of wanting to work on R. It is unfortunate that she is not more like you in that regard. I think SunCMars summed it up quite well in his eloquent write up about this whole situation. Thank you all for your thoughts and input.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

getting it together said:


> SunCMars-I don't know who to attribute that passage to but it is great and spot on. I talked to my wife today for about two hours. This after not talking with with her for about 10 days. I charged/neutral-180'd. I told her I had a question to ask face to face. I asked 'I* just want to make sure whether or not divorce is the path you want to take?* I stated that either way is fine with me. She stated divorce and I think she expected me to get really upset but instead I said 'OK, I understand'. She asked if I was eating and sleeping ok etc. I said I was doing fine. We talked about different types of divorces and how expensive they might be. She want an amicable split (of course). Says she doesn't want us fighting or being bad to each other. She also says she wants a collaborative divorce. I told her that is fine if possible but that I was not going to roll over and take it in the @$$. She knows what will come out if we end up going to court and she knows it will be expensive. I certainly haven't gotten over this but I am resigned to it and ready to move on. There is no hope here. I do think she just wants her freedom to be a butterfly or whatever. So be it. Waste of 25 years.


Why let her make this decision? You're ok putting your life and future into her hands?

Why don't you just file and make that decision?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Don't know what State you are in but talk to a lawyer. Inheritance may not be considered community property so she may not have a right to any of it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

getting it together said:


> The wife of the OM called me yesterday out the blue. We have talked in the past but it has been about two weeks now. She stated yesterday that her husband came up to her and stated that he was going to visit my wife because he missed her so much as he hasn't seen her in a while (they have been texting a lot each day though). I can not understand the OM and OMW relationship. Once she found out about the affair he has been pretty open with her about what is going on. I guess he has done stuff like this before so she is just biding her time but I wonder if he thinks she would never file on him? Anyway, she told me that my wife has been telling him how scared she is of me and that I drop by the house whenever I want and that she has been taking shooting lessons for self defense. Wow! What a bunch of phooey! I live about two hours away and I visit our house about once every two weeks and have never treated her poorly. I think she is white knighting this guy. I also found that my wife's best friend and another older guy friend knows about her affair (not sure about that but probable). She also said that my wife told her husband that stbXW said we were getting a divorce and that she was moving back into our house now. However, she had never moved out!! *She also stated that my wife told him that she had told our daughters about the OM. That is also false.* OMW said that her husband is not planning on getting a divorce but only plans on legal separation and does not plan on marrying again. OMW said he did not tell my wife of those plans. Really just totally crazy.....all of this. I told OMW that she should file for D and expose him to all.


I Hope you don't make the mistake of lying to your kids. Tell them the truth.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> Why let her make this decision? You're ok putting your life and future into her hands?
> 
> Why don't you just file and make that decision?


I guess we think alike. I had already signed, notarized the petition and left it with my lawyer before I talked with her. She didn't know that though.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

TDSC60 said:


> Don't know what State you are in but talk to a lawyer. Inheritance may not be considered community property so she may not have a right to any of it.


You are correct. It was not commingled and so is not considered community property. Funny thing is, I did not do it for this reason. I did it so that the assets were not all in one bank or location so that all would not be lost if one bank failed. They are all in my name though.


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## arobk (Mar 17, 2017)

getting it together said:


> The wife of the OM called me yesterday out the blue. We have talked in the past but it has been about two weeks now. She stated yesterday that her husband came up to her and stated that he was going to visit my wife because he missed her so much as he hasn't seen her in a while (they have been texting a lot each day though). I can not understand the OM and OMW relationship. Once she found out about the affair he has been pretty open with her about what is going on. I guess he has done stuff like this before so she is just biding her time but I wonder if he thinks she would never file on him? *Anyway, she told me that my wife has been telling him how scared she is of me and that I drop by the house whenever I want and that she has been taking shooting lessons for self defense. Wow! What a bunch of phooey! *I live about two hours away and I visit our house about once every two weeks and have never treated her poorly. I think she is white knighting this guy. I also found that my wife's best friend and another older guy friend knows about her affair (not sure about that but probable). She also said that my wife told her husband that stbXW said we were getting a divorce and that she was moving back into our house now. However, she had never moved out!! She also stated that my wife told him that she had told our daughters about the OM. That is also false. OMW said that her husband is not planning on getting a divorce but only plans on legal separation and does not plan on marrying again. OMW said he did not tell my wife of those plans. Really just totally crazy.....all of this. I told OMW that she should file for D and expose him to all.


 You should pay attention to this. Her having to shoot you in self defense and you dying as a result would be very convenient for her. It would get her everything you two have instead of half minus the inheritance.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

arobk said:


> You should pay attention to this. Her having to shoot you in self defense and you dying as a result would be very convenient for her. It would get her everything you two have instead of half minus the inheritance.


 Yup. She's re-writing your history and setting up the storyline. Needless to say VAR (or better yet video) every contact you have with her, although if she takes drastic action that will be little solace.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Yup. She's re-writing your history and setting up the storyline. Needless to say VAR (or better yet video) every contact you have with her, although if she takes drastic action that will be little solace.


I don't think she is the type to do that sort of thing but then again, I didn't think she was the type to have an affair or lie to me so easily either. To clarify, I think she said that to her OM in an effort to white knight him (motivate him to 'come to the rescue'). She told him at the same time that we were getting a divorce. What he didn't say to her was that he was going to get a legal separation from his wife but continue living with her (the OMW told me this as he tells her a lot about what is going on - yes, strange, I know).


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

getting it together said:


> I don't think she is the type to do that sort of thing but then again, I didn't think she was the type to have an affair or lie to me so easily either. To clarify, I think she said that to her OM in an effort to white knight him (motivate him to 'come to the rescue'). She told him at the same time that we were getting a divorce. What he didn't say to her was that he was going to get a legal separation from his wife but continue living with her (the OMW told me this as he tells her a lot about what is going on - yes, strange, I know).


I never thought my ex capable of doing these things either yet she played the "scared" card for all it was worth and when things started going downhill with her new Mr perfect she stepped up the game calling the police, trying in vain to get restraining orders which got her nowhere etc. Part of it was trying to get the clown to play white night, at least in the beginning but a big part was her anger that it turned out just like I told her it would and she always hated when I was right. 

Never underestimate how far they will go when they are in affairland.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

getting it together said:


> I have seen guilt and sorrow from her regarding the A and how she treated me. I do not see much in the way of wanting to work on R.


Translation: She is sorry she got caught but she is not sorry she did it.

Look I know you don't see it but consider yourself extremely LUCKY. 

Your situation is VERY cut and dry. Remorseless cheater = DIVORCE.

The worst kinds of breakups are the ones with a lot of "what ifs".

This is a very easy decision for any sane person with a shred of dignity.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

getting it together said:


> I don't think she is the type to do that sort of thing but then again, I didn't think she was the type to have an affair or lie to me so easily either. To clarify, I think she said that to her OM in an effort to white knight him (motivate him to 'come to the rescue'). She told him at the same time that we were getting a divorce. What he didn't say to her was that he was going to get a legal separation from his wife but continue living with her (the OMW told me this as he tells her a lot about what is going on - yes, strange, I know).


 If it was me I would NOT go on assumptions, but would go on her actions and previous track record. If you record interactions and nothing happens, you have lost nothing but the cost of a recorder (or in case of an app for your phone, likely nothing), but if you proceed on the assumption she "would never do something like that", and she does, you will be in for a world of hurt. Better safe than sorry.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

>>honcho-Yes, I feel the same is happening or will happen in this case. She is in the fog and can not see what I see. Even if I tell her exactly what I have heard (verbatim), she thinks the OWM or I am fabricating it all. Truly amazing. 

>>BetrayedDad-I am getting better and accept the situation for what it is. I am not happy about it, actually very disappointed and sad but there is clarity. I have filed for divorce already. She said she is interested in a collaborative D so I am giving her a little time. It will not be much time. if I see no action on her part to reach out to talk about it then she will be served. 

>>Rubix Cubed-Agreed. I am being careful and taking the necessary precautions. It is truly amazing how much a person I knew for 25 years can change and how quickly. They have become someone I don't think I would want to be with had they been like that when I met them.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

getting it together said:


> >>honcho-Yes, I feel the same is happening or will happen in this case. She is in the fog and can not see what I see. Even if I tell her exactly what I have heard (verbatim), she thinks the OWM or I am fabricating it all. Truly amazing.
> 
> >>BetrayedDad-I am getting better and accept the situation for what it is. I am not happy about it, actually very disappointed and sad but there is clarity. I have filed for divorce already. She said she is interested in a collaborative D so I am giving her a little time. It will not be much time. if I see no action on her part to reach out to talk about it then she will be served.
> 
> >>Rubix Cubed-Agreed. I am being careful and taking the necessary precautions. It is truly amazing how much a person I knew for 25 years can change and how quickly. They have become someone I don't think I would want to be with had they been like that when I met them.


 It's highly likely you never knew the real her, and have now ,after all those years, gotten a glimpse of the truth. That may be a harsher reality than 'she just changed', as you can't un-know what you now know. Either way you don't want any part of that now, so soldier on and come out the other side a better person on his way to a new better life.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

getting it together said:


> >>honcho-Yes, I feel the same is happening or will happen in this case. She is in the fog and can not see what I see. Even if I tell her exactly what I have heard (verbatim), she thinks the OWM or I am fabricating it all. Truly amazing.
> 
> >>BetrayedDad-I am getting better and accept the situation for what it is. I am not happy about it, actually very disappointed and sad but there is clarity. I have filed for divorce already. She said she is interested in a collaborative D so I am giving her a little time. It will not be much time. if I see no action on her part to reach out to talk about it then she will be served.
> 
> >>Rubix Cubed-Agreed. I am being careful and taking the necessary precautions. It is truly amazing how much a person I knew for 25 years can change and how quickly. They have become someone I don't think I would want to be with had they been like that when I met them.


It's in your best interests not to give her time and in her current state you shouldn't be trying to negotiate with her. Wayward are notorious for putting things off and not following thru on thing's during a divorce for whatever reason. It's not unusual at all that negotiations become just another part of the game. One day they agree to something, the next they dont. You'll spin your wheels. 

Sit down with your lawyer and come up with a "fair" offer and have him send it to her with a date for acceptance or denial. If she wants a change have her deal with the lawyer, not you. You want as little contact as possible with her for your own wellbeing. She won't necessarily like it because she needs you in the "bad guy" role. It helps fuel the affair land and if you don't play along it not nearly as much fun for her and takes away her perceived power of you. 

The longer these situations go on the more costly it will be for you.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

>>>>Rubix Cubed said: "It's highly likely you never knew the real her, and have now ,after all those years, gotten a glimpse of the truth. That may be a harsher reality than 'she just changed', as you can't un-know what you now know. Either way you don't want any part of that now, so soldier on and come out the other side a better person on his way to a new better life."

RUBIX-I am starting to wonder about that myself. I am wondering how long she has planned this or thought about this. I also wonder if it is the first time she as had an A. It eats me up inside to think about it but I know I have to let go of it and move on.

>>>>HONCHO said: "It's in your best interests not to give her time and in her current state you shouldn't be trying to negotiate with her. Wayward are notorious for putting things off and not following thru on thing's during a divorce for whatever reason. It's not unusual at all that negotiations become just another part of the game. One day they agree to something, the next they dont. You'll spin your wheels.

Sit down with your lawyer and come up with a "fair" offer and have him send it to her with a date for acceptance or denial. If she wants a change have her deal with the lawyer, not you. You want as little contact as possible with her for your own wellbeing. She won't necessarily like it because she needs you in the "bad guy" role. It helps fuel the affair land and if you don't play along it not nearly as much fun for her and takes away her perceived power of you.

The longer these situations go on the more costly it will be for you."

HONCHO-you are absolutely right. I gave her a chance to do this an easier way but she did not reply (must've seen the support part of the petition). She is getting served in the next couple of days. She is still in big fog with OM.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

getting it together said:


> >>>>Rubix Cubed said: "It's highly likely you never knew the real her, and have now ,after all those years, gotten a glimpse of the truth. That may be a harsher reality than 'she just changed', as you can't un-know what you now know. Either way you don't want any part of that now, so soldier on and come out the other side a better person on his way to a new better life."
> 
> RUBIX-I am starting to wonder about that myself. I am wondering how long she has planned this or thought about this. I also wonder if it is the first time she as had an A. It eats me up inside to think about it but I know I have to let go of it and move on.
> 
> ...


Her continuing to cling to her affair fog may be the only part of this whole situation that is of benefit to you. She will want it settled quickly.


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## JustTheFacts (Jun 27, 2017)

Take her to the cleaners. Make her at least suffer financially. There will be no emotional pain on her part because she doesn't care about you. Her taking out a bunch of money and opening a new account is very sneaky. She knows what she is doing. Don't take it lying down.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Good job on getting her served. It's literally your only option at this point.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

TDSC60 said: "Her continuing to cling to her affair fog may be the only part of this whole situation that is of benefit to you. She will want it settled quickly."

That is very true. What is unbelievable to me is that she and the OM are still carrying on as they are knowing full well that they are destroying two families in the process. IMO, it takes a special callousness to do this....also, a big dose of self delusion. About 3 weeks ago, when we were still talking, I said I did not want her going to a 2 day sports event where this guy would be participating. She didn't go but, according to the OMW, WW and OM texted hundreds of times and sometimes until 2-3am. That is not what I call the road to reconciliation. 

JustTheFacts said: "Take her to the cleaners. Make her at least suffer financially. There will be no emotional pain on her part because she doesn't care about you. Her taking out a bunch of money and opening a new account is very sneaky. She knows what she is doing. Don't take it lying down."

I agree. I don't know why I should be made to take a financial hit just because she wants to have an affair and blow up two families at the same time. 

eric1 said: "Good job on getting her served. It's literally your only option at this point."

I think so too. At least I am coming to realize it isn't me that is nixing a 25 year marriage. It is her. I gave her plenty of chances (probably too many) to change direction and stop this thing. All for nought. Crying shame.


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