# Visiting family.



## Feeling lost and lonely

I am wondering what the opinion here is about visiting family.

I live in the US now but was born in Europe and that is where my family before marriage all lives.

My wife and I have two seven year old kids one with a mental disability but for the most part like any other seven year old.

We have been married for 11 years have had some problems but working on it.

My wife and my mother really don't like each other.

My Mom just turned eighty and her health is not great but what to expect at eighty.

My Dad passed away in November. His health was bad for many years but went quickly at the end and I wasn't there.
I were not able to go to the funeral either that was not even a discussion with my wife.

For the last four years I have visited my family in Europe for a long weekend once a year except last year when I also went there to fly with my mom here to see my two kids and then back again.
I never even left the airport area those two times in Europe.

My wife hates it that I go visit my family, probably because she doesn't like my Mom and then she also has to take care of the kids without my help. When they were younger she had help with them from her family or friends when I was gone.

Every time that I visited my family she has only agreed to it after influence from her family never because I told her that I wanted to.

My family has always covered all the cost because we couldn't afford it so money has not been her reason.

So finally my question after this long post.

Am I wrong for wanting to go see them?

I want to go again this year is that unreasonable?






Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Part of me is this should not be a huge issue on its own but that's not really the case because it IS an issue to your wife for whatever reason.

Have you ever suggested taking the whole family over there? I know you wife and mom don't get along but I would not make this a yearly thing unless the entire family is going or if you could take your kids to visit but ideally your WIFE and kids.


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

We have talked about taking the kids but she doesn't want to until they are fourteen or so. 
They are not used to traveling.
Partly because of our daughter's disability very difficult with change of routine and my wife does really badly with time zone changes.

I would love to take them one at a time but my wife and her parents (her parents never really travelled anywhere) would never be okay with that.

Her parents are very involved in a lot of my wife's decision making and opinion.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Hmmm, this brings about a few more questions.

Do her parents like you, do you have a good relationship with them?

When you go, how long are you gone for?


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

stillfightingforus said:


> Hmmm, this brings about a few more questions.
> 
> Do her parents like you, do you have a good relationship with them?
> 
> When you go, how long are you gone for?


I would say that I have a good relationship with them and that they like me. I like them.

My longest trip I left home on Wednesday after kids went to school and was back Monday night around 2am. 
So in my home country from Thursday morning to Sunday morning.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I'm almost tempted to say (in an attempt to see her true colors about this) to tell her you know she isn't exactly thrilled when you go and that this year you are going to stay home for her and plan on going in the next year or so. And then not again until the whole family can go.

To see if she is appreciative of the gesture or if she is indifferent about it.

I know others may disagree with this and tell you to go but if it were me I would want to see exactly this is all about and in term make the compromise of staying home this year. 

Does your wife get any 'me' time, get to go out and do any fun things on her own every now and then?


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

stillfightingforus said:


> I'm almost tempted to say (in an attempt to see her true colors about this) to tell her you know she isn't exactly thrilled when you go and that this year you are going to stay home for her and plan on going in the next year or so. And then not again until the whole family can go.
> 
> To see if she is appreciative of the gesture or if she is indifferent about it.
> 
> I know others may disagree with this and tell you to go but if it were me I would want to see exactly this is all about and in term make the compromise of staying home this year.
> 
> Does your wife get any 'me' time, get to go out and do any fun things on her own every now and then?


If my Mom was in better health doing that would have been an option but not as it is now.

If I am not working she can go whenever she wants to so she can have her time.

Unfortunately letting her do that has led to some very had decisions on her part but she still can at any point.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thor

You're a grown man. Go see your Mom and whomever else you want to in Europe for as long as you want to. Your wife is being a controlling childish shrew.

Now as far as the kids are concerned, you should be able to take them if you want to. However, their mom can block it by not giving permission to leave the country. I don't think her position is reasonable, and I honestly believe she is using the one child's disability as a pretense to reject travel. Yes of course it can be a challenge, but it doesn't mean it is impossible!

Your W's conflict with your mom can be reduced during visits by minimizing their direct contact. To some extent your W should be willing to sacrifice her personal comfort so that you can have time with your parents and family. A lot of people don't get along with their inlaws but they manage to stay polite during visits. And, your mom may need to be set straight by you if she is instigating conflict with your wife.

I think there is something deeper going on with your W. Idk exactly what, but she has a choke collar on you for some reason and you are letting her do it.

If I were you, I'd tell her that you are going to visit your mom for a week or however long makes sense. Tell her you'd like her and the kids to come along. If she doesn't want to come along, you'd like to take one or both of the kids so that they can see their elderly grandmother. If she is going to block the kids from leaving the country with you, you'll just go alone. You can't force her to do anything but you can stand up for yourself and do what you need to do yourself. Be the man in charge at least of himself!


----------



## Thor

My kids travelled unaccompanied to visit relatives in Europe starting at 8 yrs old (the youngest the airline would take them). We carefully arranged things so there were safety nets everywhere, and my kids did a lot of traveling (I work in the industry). My kids loved the adventure of the travel. They always had a great time. The point is, a 7 yr old is plenty old enough to travel with you to Europe!


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> If my Mom was in better health doing that would have been an option but not as it is now.
> 
> If I am not working she can go whenever she wants to so she can have her time.
> 
> Unfortunately letting her do that has led to some very had decisions on her part but she still can at any point.
> 
> Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


"Unfortunately letting her do that has led to some very had decisions on her part but she still can at any point."

Can you elaborate on that please?


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Thor said:


> You're a grown man. Go see your Mom and whomever else you want to in Europe for as long as you want to. Your wife is being a controlling childish shrew.
> 
> Now as far as the kids are concerned, you should be able to take them if you want to. However, their mom can block it by not giving permission to leave the country. I don't think her position is reasonable, and I honestly believe she is using the one child's disability as a pretense to reject travel. Yes of course it can be a challenge, but it doesn't mean it is impossible!
> 
> Your W's conflict with your mom can be reduced during visits by minimizing their direct contact. To some extent your W should be willing to sacrifice her personal comfort so that you can have time with your parents and family. A lot of people don't get along with their inlaws but they manage to stay polite during visits. And, your mom may need to be set straight by you if she is instigating conflict with your wife.
> 
> I think there is something deeper going on with your W. Idk exactly what, but she has a choke collar on you for some reason and you are letting her do it.
> 
> If I were you, I'd tell her that you are going to visit your mom for a week or however long makes sense. Tell her you'd like her and the kids to come along. If she doesn't want to come along, you'd like to take one or both of the kids so that they can see their elderly grandmother. If she is going to block the kids from leaving the country with you, you'll just go alone. You can't force her to do anything but you can stand up for yourself and do what you need to do yourself. Be the man in charge at least of himself!


I agree I think she is using our daughter's disability too as a reason.

They both instigated each other.

She does have a lot of control over things and I am never very good at breaking that control.

Worth a try again with wanting to take her and kids with me.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Thor said:


> My kids travelled unaccompanied to visit relatives in Europe starting at 8 yrs old (the youngest the airline would take them). We carefully arranged things so there were safety nets everywhere, and my kids did a lot of traveling (I work in the industry). My kids loved the adventure of the travel. They always had a great time. The point is, a 7 yr old is plenty old enough to travel with you to Europe!


Problem is that they have never really been anywhere different.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

stillfightingforus said:


> "Unfortunately letting her do that has led to some very had decisions on her part but she still can at any point."
> 
> Can you elaborate on that please?


She has had atleast two physical and one emotional affair. Since kids were born.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> She has had atleast two physical and one emotional affair. Since kids were born.
> 
> Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


Yikes, get ready for the onslaught of advice you are about to get on a different course.


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

stillfightingforus said:


> Yikes, get ready for the onslaught of advice you are about to get on a different course.


I know.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thor

Your marriage is toast. She's a bully, and she has you under her thumb. Even before you mentioned her multiple affairs it was obvious. You need to work on getting your self respect back. Are you seeing a counselor or therapist? I think you need some in-person advice/guidance as well as what is generally solid advice on this forum.

I think you need to start setting some boundaries. This is to protect yourself and to start building up to independence. The first thing I would suggest is you come up with some personal time which is just yours. If you like to do woodwork, set aside 2 hours each week at the same time to go into your workshop and make sawdust. If you like to cook, set one specific meal each week that is yours, and you make it your project. Do the planning, the shopping, the cooking. If you have been wanting to learn a new skill, sign up for an online class (gobs of free excellent classes online!) and schedule a couple of hours on a specific evening each week to work on it. Whatever it is, find something you enjoy or some specific goal you have and do it. Make the time immovable absent major injury to one of the kids. Yes, she is going to push back! She'll complain about something, she'll try to stall you leaving the room to go to your activity, she'll mock whatever it is you are doing. Do it anyway. Stand up for yourself and just declare that this time is yours when she gives you a hard time. Discuss it ahead of time, and negotiate the time slot as needed to fit in with other family needs. But then stick to it. This will be good for you and it will up your status in her eyes too. It won't balance the scales but it is a start.


----------



## Middle of Everything

So does your Mother not like your wife because she's banged 2,3,4, maybe more guys in the 11 years youve been married?

Who gives a **** what your wife thinks about visiting your family. Do it if you want. 3 affairs? Come on. 
I'll give you credit for wanting to be a good father and stay for your kids. But dont let your wife tell you a damn thing you can do.


----------



## frusdil

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> I would love to take them one at a time but my wife and her parents (her parents never really travelled anywhere) would never be okay with that.


Her parents do not get a vote. Tell them it's not their business.

Does your mum not like your wife because of her affairs? Or is she like my MIL and doesn't like her just because?

It seems brutal that you couldn't go to your fathers funeral, that's terrible.


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Thor said:


> Your marriage is toast. She's a bully, and she has you under her thumb. Even before you mentioned her multiple affairs it was obvious. You need to work on getting your self respect back. Are you seeing a counselor or therapist? I think you need some in-person advice/guidance as well as what is generally solid advice on this forum.
> 
> I think you need to start setting some boundaries. This is to protect yourself and to start building up to independence. The first thing I would suggest is you come up with some personal time which is just yours. If you like to do woodwork, set aside 2 hours each week at the same time to go into your workshop and make sawdust. If you like to cook, set one specific meal each week that is yours, and you make it your project. Do the planning, the shopping, the cooking. If you have been wanting to learn a new skill, sign up for an online class (gobs of free excellent classes online!) and schedule a couple of hours on a specific evening each week to work on it. Whatever it is, find something you enjoy or some specific goal you have and do it. Make the time immovable absent major injury to one of the kids. Yes, she is going to push back! She'll complain about something, she'll try to stall you leaving the room to go to your activity, she'll mock whatever it is you are doing. Do it anyway. Stand up for yourself and just declare that this time is yours when she gives you a hard time. Discuss it ahead of time, and negotiate the time slot as needed to fit in with other family needs. But then stick to it. This will be good for you and it will up your status in her eyes too. It won't balance the scales but it is a start.


I agree with the marriage being toast already. 

I have had counseling before but nothing recently. Difficult to afford even with having insurance.

I try to do things that I enjoy when the kids are in school and she is working.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Middle of Everything said:


> So does your Mother not like your wife because she's banged 2,3,4, maybe more guys in the 11 years youve been married?
> 
> Who gives a **** what your wife thinks about visiting your family. Do it if you want. 3 affairs? Come on.
> I'll give you credit for wanting to be a good father and stay for your kids. But dont let your wife tell you a damn thing you can do.


No that has nothing to do with why they don't like each other, she never really did.

The kids are what keeps me going so I want to do what is best for them.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

frusdil said:


> Her parents do not get a vote. Tell them it's not their business.
> 
> Does your mum not like your wife because of her affairs? Or is she like my MIL and doesn't like her just because?
> 
> It seems brutal that you couldn't go to your fathers funeral, that's terrible.


Her parents always have an opinion and that changes my wife's opinion with a vote or not.

Just because, I have tried to understand why they feel like they do but haven't been able too.

I could have just left for the funeral but surrounded by winter storms it was a risk of not getting there on time or not back on time. I would have been stuck for a day or two going back because of weather there the day I would have went back.
But either way she was no support about the funeral.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thor

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> I try to do things that I enjoy when the kids are in school and she is working.


You have to make this something that is all about you, even if inconvenient for her. Let's say you like sci-fi movies and there's a Thursday evening Meetup group. Every week there's a movie and a discussion at somebody's house. You sign up for it and you go, even though your W will be home alone watching the kids.

You may need to negotiate a reciprocal time where she gets to go out and you watch the kids. That's fair enough.

What doesn't accomplish anything is when you tiptoe around her and the kids' schedules to find snippets of time when you can do something. You are putting yourself last by doing that. What seems really selfish to you by taking every Thursday evening to do the sci-fi meetup is in fact just normal. You've been conditioned to put yourself last and to think you are wrong to have anything that is just yours.

You deserve a life yourself!

Do you do a lot of things for others without be specifically asked to do them? If so, stop. Things like fixing a flat bicycle tire, or reinstalling a shelf in your kid's bedroom. Your family needs to learn to ask you to do something rather than just expect you to do it. The term is "caretaking", where you become the family servant and they don't respect or appreciate what you do. If it isn't a necessity, don't do the task for somebody else unless they ask. And they have to *ask*. My kids learned to just declare something was broken rather than *ask*. I would go fix it like a good servant. Yeah, no.

I think you're so far out in the fringes that what seems to you like being rude or selfish is really just normal for everyone else. So you need to learn to carve some space out for just you, and then insist on keeping it intact despite the pushback you will get.


----------



## EleGirl

Do you have any activities that you do without your wife? Do you have any friends now?

I'm wondering if your wife objects to you having any life and friends that she does not control?


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Thor said:


> You have to make this something that is all about you, even if inconvenient for her. Let's say you like sci-fi movies and there's a Thursday evening Meetup group. Every week there's a movie and a discussion at somebody's house. You sign up for it and you go, even though your W will be home alone watching the kids.
> 
> You may need to negotiate a reciprocal time where she gets to go out and you watch the kids. That's fair enough.
> 
> What doesn't accomplish anything is when you tiptoe around her and the kids' schedules to find snippets of time when you can do something. You are putting yourself last by doing that. What seems really selfish to you by taking every Thursday evening to do the sci-fi meetup is in fact just normal. You've been conditioned to put yourself last and to think you are wrong to have anything that is just yours.
> 
> You deserve a life yourself!
> 
> Do you do a lot of things for others without be specifically asked to do them? If so, stop. Things like fixing a flat bicycle tire, or reinstalling a shelf in your kid's bedroom. Your family needs to learn to ask you to do something rather than just expect you to do it. The term is "caretaking", where you become the family servant and they don't respect or appreciate what you do. If it isn't a necessity, don't do the task for somebody else unless they ask. And they have to *ask*. My kids learned to just declare something was broken rather than *ask*. I would go fix it like a good servant. Yeah, no.
> 
> I think you're so far out in the fringes that what seems to you like being rude or selfish is really just normal for everyone else. So you need to learn to carve some space out for just you, and then insist on keeping it intact despite the pushback you will get.


My kids are actually pretty good at asking if they need help with anything.

My wife leave for work at 6am, kids leave for school at 8:30, wife gets done work around 1:30 and I go to work for 3-11:30pm so don't overlap much and unfortunately this place don't have much going on during the day. 
Weekends is when I get to see the kids.

My time alone is used for taking care of things around the house, what my wife ask me to do during the day and for what I want to do.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

EleGirl said:


> Do you have any activities that you do without your wife? Do you have any friends now?
> 
> I'm wondering if your wife objects to you having any life and friends that she does not control?


I have some friends at work but very rarely do I see them outside of work.

Most things I do are on my own but mostly stuff at home.

I am quite sure that she would object to that.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

My time is at work I guess, must sound weird but most of the time I like what I do and it's a challenge with certain things that I like doing. 
I enjoy being a dad and I enjoy work but not much else, maybe that's part of why I want to visit family more frequently lately.

I used to really love the travel part of my trips but now it's just a hassle needed to see family.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Warrior73

Thor said:


> You're a grown man. Go see your Mom and whomever else you want to in Europe for as long as you want to. Your wife is being a controlling childish shrew.
> 
> Now as far as the kids are concerned, you should be able to take them if you want to. However, their mom can block it by not giving permission to leave the country. I don't think her position is reasonable, and I honestly believe she is using the one child's disability as a pretense to reject travel. Yes of course it can be a challenge, but it doesn't mean it is impossible!
> 
> Your W's conflict with your mom can be reduced during visits by minimizing their direct contact. To some extent your W should be willing to sacrifice her personal comfort so that you can have time with your parents and family. A lot of people don't get along with their inlaws but they manage to stay polite during visits. And, your mom may need to be set straight by you if she is instigating conflict with your wife.
> 
> I think there is something deeper going on with your W. Idk exactly what, but she has a choke collar on you for some reason and you are letting her do it.
> 
> If I were you, I'd tell her that you are going to visit your mom for a week or however long makes sense. Tell her you'd like her and the kids to come along. If she doesn't want to come along, you'd like to take one or both of the kids so that they can see their elderly grandmother. If she is going to block the kids from leaving the country with you, you'll just go alone. You can't force her to do anything but you can stand up for yourself and do what you need to do yourself. Be the man in charge at least of himself!


I agree...this is about control...


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Warrior73 said:


> I agree...this is about control...


I agree.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dawghoused

You are absolutely right to go to see them and your wife should understand that. In old age, parents want the support of their children. If you will not care for your mother then who will do.


----------



## Diana7

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> She has had atleast two physical and one emotional affair. Since kids were born.
> 
> Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


Good grief, why are you still with her? She hates you seeing your own family even for just 3 days I once a year, and she is a serial cheat. 
Unless your mother is very toxic, then seeing your own family is what normal people do. Why don't they get on? She also needs to cut those apron strings from her own parents.She cant seem to make a decision without them and yet she wants you to never see yours at all. What a hypocrite.


----------



## personofinterest

Your mother is very ill and she wants to see her son. I think you need to buy a ticket today. Honestly, I think you need to buy 3 tickets today and take your children as well. There are some marriage sites that would advise you to basically disown your family if Wifey isn't comfortable. That is BS. This is your family. Your wife is being selfish and hurtful. Go see your mother and do not feel a bit guilty about it. You are a good son.


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Dawghoused said:


> You are absolutely right to go to see them and your wife should understand that. In old age, parents want the support of their children. If you will not care for your mother then who will do.


My wife isn't very good at understanding what is not for her benefit. 

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

Diana7 said:


> Good grief, why are you still with her? She hates you seeing your own family even for just 3 days I once a year, and she is a serial cheat.
> Unless your mother is very toxic, then seeing your own family is what normal people do. Why don't they get on? She also needs to cut those apron strings from her own parents.She cant seem to make a decision without them and yet she wants you to never see yours at all. What a hypocrite.


I'm with her still because of the kids, haven't been able to find a way to make it work for us if I leave. It's getting close financially to try and work that part out at least.

What would toxic behavior be?

She can make decisions without them but I think their opinion is always considered by her and if she doesn't think they will like it she try to not let them know.

She is good at being a hypocrite.
She see her parents almost every day.


Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------



## Feeling lost and lonely

personofinterest said:


> Your mother is very ill and she wants to see her son. I think you need to buy a ticket today. Honestly, I think you need to buy 3 tickets today and take your children as well. There are some marriage sites that would advise you to basically disown your family if Wifey isn't comfortable. That is BS. This is your family. Your wife is being selfish and hurtful. Go see your mother and do not feel a bit guilty about it. You are a good son.


I wish I knew for sure that I could handle traveling alone with them that far. They know nothing about traveling or what flying is like.

Sent from my Z971 using Tapatalk


----------

