# Separated. Wife has another guy. What now?



## davecarter

Hello Forum Members - first time poster here (have been reading some for a few weeks) and decided I need some advice at least on my situation. I was unsure where to post this, but I feel it does technically belong in the 'Coping with Infidelity' Forum.

Basically, my 8-year marriage has or is breaking-down - my wife 'Danielle' Idont know if I can use her real name) and I married in 2004 and there was that instant 'hit' and we felt we were 'soul-mates'...this belied an uglier side, namely that is, a very volatile and tumultuous relationship. (right now, I'll admit I have 'anger-management' issues and Danielle is very feisty and can be confrontational - hence explosiveness).

The problems we went through really got bad in the last 6 months of last year, 8 months after we'd moved house to see if that could breathe some better air into our marriage. Regardless of me being the primary breadwinner (Dani is on a 2 year career-break) I became very lazy and Danielle, always the do-er, took the reigns of the marriage and in a way became the 'husband': DIY, gardening, cooking, cleaning, kids-run, shopping, etc.

FF to February 15th...she just comes out with: _"I can't do this anymore...it's over...we need to separate"_. Far from being shocked, because of the nature of the marriage at that point, I actually thought this would be a viable solution and agreed with her...thinking it would only take a few weeks. I moved out a few days later to stay with my parents and we agreed that I'd come over Fridays>Sundays to look after and spend time with the kids...she was free to go out with her friends, see her folks, and not have to do all the stuff she'd been doing which, in her own words, _"I've been slowly disappearing up my arse while you sit around doing nothing"._

This is where I got stupid and ignorant whereby I'd go over and she'd often say _"I'm going to stay with my sister"_ or _"me and my girlfriends are going out tonight I won't be back til tomorrow"_
This carries on for 7 weeks...April 6th...Saturday night Im just looking on Facebook and a friend's mutual page where she'd uploaded some photos from a party back in late February.
I do a double-take when I see one, solitary photo of Danielle, all dressed up looking very attractive and some rough-looking guy in a suit.
I know this guy. I've met him once.
And that was when he came over to our home in late December 2012 to do some surveying on our house
I don't want to assume anything...but you know my heart was beating so fast I could feel the anxiety building up in my stomach and chest. I call her: _"we need to talk now....you have to come home...now"_
She arrives 15 mins later and I have it out with her:_ "What's going on between you and this guy 'Darren'?_
I don't want to go through the exact conversation but she admitted she'd been seeing him since we split up...5 days after I moved out to be exact and she rationalized it thus: _"we are techncailly separated so it doesn't matter if t was 1st day after"._

Long story short, she says she isn't going to stop seeing him, he's a nice guy, makes her feel good and wanted and she's been missing this for years, and that he is into her as much as she's into him. She says we are 'dead' as a couple, but need to be strong for our kids.
Sorry for rambling, but tinking about this now is bringing back some triggers....but to date, we are still separated, the only way I can see my kids is to go back home at weekends (call me a doormat but I've agreed to this)...which allows her up to go and say her her bf's house (can't do anything about this...but it kills me. Qhen I first saw this guy I thought _"No freaking way!? He's 'punching above his weight' with my wife!?)_

I feel like I'm in 'No Man's Land'...this situation, has, totally 'paralyzed' me and I admit, I feel...lost. I still love my wife...I still fancy her like crazy...I think she's having a Mid-Life-Crsis'...so, do I let this all blow over? file for Divorce, do I move back to our home??
Tearing me up right now...

So, I don't know if this is an affair....or infidelity or cheating because we are separated....hope someone can offer short-term or long-term advice....Im open to anything  and will answer all your queries.


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## TimesOfChange

My gut feelin tells me that this guy been on her mind before the seperation. Pure speculation but it would fit the cheater script.


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## arbitrator

*It's infidelity because she is still legally married to you.

When you are fully ready, you should get the evidence gathered up and produce the truth to members of her family, to not only let them know that they have a cheater in their clan, but a liar as well!

You deserve far better out of life!*


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## wranglerman

5days!!! I am not a great judge of character but 5days!!!


WOW!!! At a guess he surveyed a little more than the property when he was there? Not to say she jumped him and it started right then but perhaps the fact that your marriage was dying and she needed something more than you were giving and he was happy to give it, she was so wrong for encouraging another man whilst actively not communicating with you about fixing your marriage.

Yes she is a cheater and yes it was going on before you moved out, and yes she is still cheating as you are separated not divorced.

Sorry you are here, but do yourself a favor and sort out better arrangements for your children and move on not in for the weekends.


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## LongWalk

Don't talk about anything. Move back home. Be polite. Don't discuss your relationship, unless she says she is ending it with POSOM.

See a lawyer ASAP and file for divorce. Hand her the papers and are what she says.

If she loves you, maybe she'll dump him, don't count on it. To build up your sex ranking work out on weights. Change your hair style. Dress to date. 

Since she is having sexual intercourse with him, you might as well tell your family and hers. If the POSOM is married or has an LTR, expose to her. Put him on Cheaterville.

Have got her phone records? Email?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## workindad

Get checked for stds. 
See a lawyer and file for divorce
Focus on taking care of the kids and yourself. 
Stay active and be careful with booze. It is easy to fall in to that unhelpful trap. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB

davecarter said:


> FF to February 15th...she just comes out with: _"I can't do this anymore...it's over...we need to separate"_.


dc,

Got the exact same line from my wife, word for word, except it was on Xmas evening. Ouch!

I was shocked, had no clue our marriage was in the dumpster. My wife was doing the "Walk Away Wife". Much later I learned the truth...

A women in a marriage with children will rarely leave her husband unless she has another man in the wings.


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## chillymorn

JMHO

shes been banging him for some time now.

man up and move on. be a good father for your children.

why hasn't she worked for 2 years. she taking a break? what that mean. she needs to get a job asap. and you need to cut financal ties with her. 

time to see a lawyer and know your rights. I would move back home asap. and quit letting her have all the cake and eating it too.


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## LongWalk

Chilly morn is right. Move home ASAP to protect your legal status. This does not mean you are imposing reconciliation on her, merely getting on even footing for the battle over custody.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## LongWalk

As Machiavelli would put it: she mentally divorced you as she prepared to let strange into her vagina. Guess before Feb and the official separation

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## LostViking

Get back in that house. 

And yes this affair has been going on long before the two of you split up. Tell her parents and family what she is doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

Hello Dave - really sorry to have you here but you came to the right place.

Moving out of your house is a really bad idea for many reasons not the least of which is that it encourages this affair to go on. Based on what you have said, she is very much in the "fog" of believing things could be better with this scumbag. Move back in now and actually establish some marital boundaries as to whats acceptable and more importantly whats not. 

Secondly exposure to the universe is key - her family, your family, OM family etc. 

Do these two things immediately regardless of how you want to proceed. 

The heavyweights will be coming in with advice about deciding whether you want to R or D and also the need for you to do the 180. There will be a number of books that your should read that they will tell you about to help you heal, cope and focus on yourself.

They will also tell you more about the importance of evidence gathering and for her to come clean about every aspect of this (and what you can do to make this happen). What else do you know about him ? Is he married etc.

Stay strong and follow the good advice you will get on this board - they are very experienced and helpful (sometimes brutally so).

Good luck mate!


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## Dad&Hubby

You need to go into protect yourself as a "man and a father" mode. You're getting walked on by a woman who doesn't care for you in ONE BIT! I know that's hard to believe and we always want to believe that our WW's who "separate" and "move on" will still have some care for us but they don't.

1. You need to stop enabling her. Stop being a babysitter and start being a father. She's treating you like hired help. You're not. Take pride in the father you are and don't accept "her terms". You have every right to go out on the weekends, don't you? Why do you ONLY get the weekends and no off time yourself?
2. Move back in. This isn't all about her. Even though she thinks it is.
3. See an attorney and separate your finances.

STOP being a meal ticket/babysitter. Show your wife what her life will be TRULY like after a divorce and full split of everything.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

The affair has been going since at least December. The time apart was so she could 'sleep' all night without interruptions. She is taking him out for a test drive to see if he is worth replacing you with. 

Stop being a doormat. Move back in and pack her bags at the door. Don't throw her out but tell her she is free to leave but not with the kids. Only a judge can do that. Carry a VAR at all times when you interact with her. It is your home also. She can't throw you out, only a judge can, Tell her she can have a boyfriend on her own dime, not yours. See a lawyer. Empty the joint accounts today. Move all money into a personal account. She gets an allowance for household items if she chooses to stay. 

See a solicitor today. Start the divorce process and tell them to please have her served at her new boyfriends house. The day she is served contact all family especially hers and close friends and expose the affair. Post them both on cheaterville and send everyone the link.

Go the gym, see a counselor if it helps. You must take take care of yourself to be strong for your family. 

Under no circumstances let her whitewash and rugsweep what she has done. Stay hard and firm. If she is really gone let her stay gone. If not and she is truly remorseful for her actions then consider reconciliation. 

I am sorry for you. But you have to step up if you want to possibly save your marriage. If you cant save it let the world now who she is on your terms, not hers.


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## LongWalk

She will be pissed that are not just the babysitter who enables her to have sexually fulfilling weekends. You are a full time dad.

She is convincing herself that she has earned the right to be single on the weekends because she is such a good mom while you are not doing jack all with your kids M-F. End that fiction because may be planning to use it to crowd you out as a parent.

Right now she be fantasizing about how OM is going love your kids better than you. If she is really listening to her ovaries, she eyes his children bonding with yours. He may or may not share this fantasy.

When you expose her ideas about him may require revision. Not everything predictable. You will get the same advice from different angles so that you can chart your future by acting instead being led by the nose to be psychologically dismembered.

Remember the more she gets her way, the less there will be of you. Scary but true. The stronger you are now, the better you'll emerge, regardless of whether you R or D

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## davecarter

Wow, thanks for all your replies so soon.
I cannot answer all of them (and some give duplicate advice) so I will pick what I can shortly and give some more details...


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## davecarter

TimesOfChange said:


> My gut feelin tells me that this guy been on her mind before the seperation. Pure speculation but it would fit the cheater script.


All I know...is that they met before he came to our home in early December at a school Christmas Party (he is 44, divorced and has a son who is one year older than my own eldest)
Before then, I'm almost 100% sure she hadn't had any face-to-face contact with him.



wranglerman said:


> 5days!!! I am not a great judge of character but 5days!!!WOW!!! At a guess he surveyed a little more than the property when he was there? Not to say she jumped him and it started right then but perhaps the fact that your marriage was dying and she needed something more than you were giving and he was happy to give it, she was so wrong for encouraging another man whilst actively not communicating with you about fixing your marriage.
> Yes she is a cheater and yes it was going on before you moved out, and yes she is still cheating as you are separated not divorced.
> Sorry you are here, but do yourself a favor and sort out better arrangements for your children and move on not in for the weekends.


Yeah, that's what I said at the time and even now but she always counters it with _"we were separated. Doesn't matter if it's 5 days or 1 day."_
I was actually at home on the day he came round and I never saw any over-friendliness between them or any flirting. I do know that he left his business-card with uis that day.
I'm pretty sure (and she has 'trickled-truthed' enough ovber the months) that she saw him as someone to talk to and probably knowing her, complained about the state of our marriage, the way I was toward her (I'll admit, pretty sh!tty over the months and years) and he saw that as his opportunity.
'White Knight Syndrome' anyone?



RWB said:


> dc,
> Got the exact same line from my wife, word for word, except it was on Xmas evening. Ouch!
> I was shocked, had no clue our marriage was in the dumpster. My wife was doing the "Walk Away Wife". Much later I learned the truth...
> A women in a marriage with children will rarely leave her husband unless she has another man in the wings.


Thing is, our marriage, and I'll be honest here...was almost at, if not at 'DefCon-1' stage.



manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Dave - really sorry to have you here but you came to the right place.
> Moving out of your house is a really bad idea for many reasons not the least of which is that it encourages this affair to go on. Based on what you have said, she is very much in the "fog" of believing things could be better with this scumbag. Move back in now and actually establish some marital boundaries as to whats acceptable and more importantly whats not.
> 
> Secondly exposure to the universe is key - her family, your family, OM family etc.
> Do these two things immediately regardless of how you want to proceed.
> The heavyweights will be coming in with advice about deciding whether you want to R or D and also the need for you to do the 180. There will be a number of books that your should read that they will tell you about to help you heal, cope and focus on yourself.
> They will also tell you more about the importance of evidence gathering and for her to come clean about every aspect of this (and what you can do to make this happen). What else do you know about him ? Is he married etc.
> Stay strong and follow the good advice you will get on this board - they are very experienced and helpful (sometimes brutally so).
> Good luck mate!


In the months after she hit me with this, I got 'obsessed' with the OM. His name is 'Darren' (again, I don't know legally if I can name him). I tried to find out everything about him.
From what Danielle tells me, he used to be in the army from about mid-90s and then wnt he went 'civvy', he got into the building trade. He is 44, divorced, has one son and lives just 5 minutes drive from us.
I also know, whether this of any importance or not, but he has a 'reputation'...I don't want to go and explain exactly what, but if you can read between-the-lines...whether this swayed my wife, I don't know. I've done all the 'I Need To Know Details' talks with her (bad move really) and she has confirmed the reputation is correct, but she gets angry when I wind her up about it and says _"it's not JUST about that_")
The only people who know about our situation:
Her Mum, her two sisters, unknown friends of hers
My parents and maybe 4 friends (a couple of work-colleagues)



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> The affair has been going since at least December. The time apart was so she could sleep all night without interruptions. She is taking him out for a test drive to see if he is worth replacing you with.
> a counselor if it helps. You must take take care of yourself to be strong for your family.
> Under no circumstances let her whitewash and rugsweep what she has done. Stay hard and firm. If she is really gone let her stay gone. If not and she is truly remorseful for her actions then consider reconciliation.
> I am sorry for you. But you have to step up if you want to possibly save your marriage. If you cant save it let the world now who she is on your terms, not hers.


See, this is where im now confused. It's been going on for 6 months now....and sometimes I get a glimmer of hope that things are not that good between them:
1 - Sometimes, she will stay at home with me and our kids at the weekend and not go to the OMs
2 - He rarely texts or calls her now - one thing that drives her crazy. e.g. she once texted him 12 times in a row without any answer and she went balllistic.
3 - Couple of times recently she has come home early either Saturday lunchtime or afternoon (after staying at his on Friday) looking all glum and moody because_ "all he wanted to do was eat take-out and watch dumb action DVDs_"
4 - Back in June, she tried to end it with him
I presume by 'whitewash' and 'tugsweep' - you mean she is trying to justify her actions?


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## LostViking

It's called leading a double life. Cheaters like your wife are adept at it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In_The_Wind

Dave 
Why do you let her stay with you and the kids ?? Its like your plan B. What happens if she ends the affair with him ?? are yall still separated ?? as long as she gets to see you then she will keep going back and forth in my opinion Why dont you help her make her decision and speed up this process instead of being used ??


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## bryanp

I agree that she is leading a double life. How great for her and how lousy for you. There seems to be no consequences to her actions.
She tried to break it off but couldn't......................Oh please.

If you have been intimate with your wife and she has been screwing this guy with a reputation then you better get yourself checked for STD's. I assume you are still paying for all the bills and she gets to go out anytime she wants to screw her brains out with this guy..................What is wrong with this picture.

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Nobody respects a doormat. How much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? If you do not respect yourself then who will?
1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See a lawyer to understand your options.

Right now there is no reason for her to stop screwing her lover. If the roles were reversed would she be so accepting as you?


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## Shaggy

Move back into your home with your kids.

If she won't end the affair then

1. Post OM on cheaterville.com as he is dating a married woman

2. File for D


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## MrK

I don't know what your question is. I almost think you are asking us if your marriage is over. 

But that can't be right...


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## LongWalk

Dave,

That briefing helps a lot. OM has reputation as stud. Your wife may have said hurtful stuff about his size or technique. These mat or may not rock her world. What she does like is being dominated by an alpha male. You may or may not be interested in competing in this respect.

He is not going to marry her. So now you are B plan. But being the B plan sucks. Are you having sex with her? Do you want have intercourse and struggle with mind movies?

She may never be into you again. Being nice to her will not make her interested in you as a man. You need to dump her and make come back full of remorse. However, if your marriage already was bad, why should she?

From her perspective she had the bad luck to connect with two azzholes. Love died for the first and is dying of malnourishment. Darren doesn't want shack up with her, nor marry her.

Move home and 180 her. Don't talk about anything but your children and the divorce. When she hits bottom she may reach out to you. She may also begin the search for new men. 

As far as your past poor performance as a husband, you have already apologized. More words about the past will not fix the infidelity.

When you move home your kids will be happy. Tell her she can go and enjoy Darren, you are done with her.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## LongWalk

Don't listen to her complaints about Darren like you were her GF. Tell her you are sorry that she feels unhappy, but you cannot fix her relationship with him.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Dad&Hubby

LongWalk said:


> Don't listen to her complaints about Darren like you were her GF. Tell her you are sorry that she feels unhappy, but you cannot fix her relationship with him.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


If my exWW EVER complained about her OM to me...

I'd look at her like..."WTF is wrong with your brain where you REMOTELY think it's appropriate let alone respectful for you to be b!tching to me about the man you cheated on me with while ruining our marriage and making our kids lives THAT much more difficult. Are you really THAT inept mentally to not realize JUST HOW WRONG that is?" And walk out of the room.


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## davecarter

In_The_Wind said:


> Dave
> Why do you let her stay with you and the kids ?? Its like your plan B. What happens if she ends the affair with him ?? are yall still separated ?? as long as she gets to see you then she will keep going back and forth in my opinion Why dont you help her make her decision and speed up this process instead of being used ??


I feel in this respect, I'm thinking about rhe kids all the time and because of their ages (3 and 6) I don't want them to start seeing stuff that will affect them.
If she ends seeing him, then I'm under no illusions that we both have to change to make a reconcilliation work, let alone a 'new marriage'.


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## davecarter

bryanp said:


> If you have been intimate with your wife and she has been screwing this guy with a reputation then you better get yourself checked for STD's. I assume you are still paying for all the bills and she gets to go out anytime she wants to screw her brains out with this guy..................What is wrong with this picture.
> 
> No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Nobody respects a doormat. How much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? If you do not respect yourself then who will?
> 1. Get tested for STD's.
> 2. See a lawyer to understand your options.
> 
> Right now there is no reason for her to stop screwing her lover. If the roles were reversed would she be so accepting as you?


No sex between Danielle and I for a long time....I mean, maybe 12+ months ago now. Shocking, I know.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Dave, coulda woudla shouda is all in the real view mirror. It solves zero. However poor a husband you were is pure BS. She could have worked on the marriage. She could have demanded a divorce before meeting someone else. She chose not to. She chose to shag someone else and blame you for it. Standard cheaters script, chapter one - I am shagging someone else because of you. LOL. And lies on top of transparent lies is standard also. 

She has betrayed you in the worse possible way. Now it looks like her new boyfriend just used her like a field wh0re and she has regrets. Don't fall for that trap. She has shown you via her actions what she really thinks of you. I hate to say this but you are a paycheck and a babysitter while she bides her time for your replacement. Divorce her asap. Tell her you are no longer interested in sloppy seconds. Show her via your actions you will not be insulted, you will not be lied to, you will not be betrayed, you will not be man number two in your wife's life. You will not be cuckolded without consequences. The consequences are real and harsh. Selling the family home, two parent household etc. She has to get off her cheating a$$ and get a fvcking job. If you do not show her via real tangible actions she will never respect you. These actions are not a guarantee that she will not come out of the fog and love you again but honestly, do you want to be with a woman who thinks of you as her back up plan? 

Dave, drop your 8alls and show her you mean business. It is the only way. Think of your children. They are better off in a two parent household where father maintains his dignity and self respect than a single one where mom has daddy stay over on weekends so she can bang her boyfriend without crying children in the way. Sorry to be so harsh but that is what they see. Trust me, they know what is going on already. Kids always now.


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## tom67

It's tough for guys in the UK all she has to do is make a call and you are out of the house or arrested. Carry a VAR with you whenever you are around her.


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## turnera

Why haven't you been having sex? 

Move back home. If she wants out bad enough, SHE can leave. But the kids stay with you.

She's been cheating for some time, she just made up the excuse to get you out of the house so she could bring him in. Get back in that house, today.

Call her parents and tell them what she's been doing.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

The fact that your children are 3 and 6 is irrelevant. They will be adults someday and all these dirty family secrets ALWAYS see the light of day. The decisions you make now will dictate how your children see you 20 years from now. No one ever ever blames a spouse for dumping a cheater. Or reconciling with those who by their actions shows true remorse. But if you take her back with no consequences and just empty words for remorse you are teaching your children that it is perfectly fine to step out of a marriage, that vows , loyalty, honor , faithfulness are empty words and mean nothing in real life.


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## davecarter

LongWalk said:


> Dave,
> 
> That briefing helps a lot. OM has reputation as stud. Your wife may have said hurtful stuff about his size or technique. These mat or may not rock her world. What she does like is being dominated by an alpha male. You may or may not be interested in competing in this respect.
> He is not going to marry her. So now you are B plan. But being the B plan sucks. Are you having sex with her? Do you want have intercourse and struggle with mind movies?
> 
> She may never be into you again. Being nice to her will not make her interested in you as a man. You need to dump her and make come back full of remorse. However, if your marriage already was bad, why should she?
> 
> From her perspective she had the bad luck to connect with two azzholes. Love died for the first and is dying of malnourishment. Darren doesn't want shack up with her, nor marry her.
> 
> Move home and 180 her. Don't talk about anything but your children and the divorce. When she hits bottom she may reach out to you. She may also begin the search for new men.
> 
> As far as your past poor performance as a husband, you have already apologized. More words about the past will not fix the infidelity.
> 
> When you move home your kids will be happy. Tell her she can go and enjoy Darren, you are done with her.


Underlined. This is what really affected me when she told me it was him and she talked about him (of course, like a fool, I pushed and pushed)
_(* for the record, and whether or not she is being kind, she says 'size' isn't an overriding issue here because I'm nt a 'small' guy anyway!)_
However, I have never seen myself as particulary dominant or aggressive either in or out of the bedroom. I'm quite an easy-going guy which is what atracted Danielle to me in the beginning. She thought I was 'cool' and 'edgy'. 
So with respects to you comment about 'unable' to or 'afraid' to compete for fear of losing her _again_....you might be right.

In fact one of my friends told me bluntly:_ " she's run the marriage for so long, she probably feels like the 'husband'. Darren just makes her feel like a 'woman' 
You dropped the ball." _


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## LongWalk

Broken on Brooklyn post 28 is right on. She has insulted you so grossly that you cannot reconcile without her undergoing a major transformation. That will not happen asp g as she pines after Darren or hunts fresh strange.

When you move home do not have make up sexy with her if she is remorseful. However, it sounds like you were in a sexless marriage prior to her cheating. This is not uncommon. When women are not happy they don't want sex.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Shaggy

Get and read Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Kay Athol

And realize that since you haven't had sex in a year, she's likely been with him that long. She just waited to be sure until she decided to kick you out and turn you into her weekend baby sitter.


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## Truthseeker1

Shaggy said:


> Get and read Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Kay Athol
> 
> And realize that since you haven't had sex in a year, she's likely been with him that long. She just waited to be sure until she decided to kick you out and turn you into her weekend baby sitter.


:iagree: Time to man up....there is no going back after this level of disrespect....work on yourself...her life will spiral downward and she will hit the gutter where she belongs...then maybe she will learn...I really think men need other male friendships so much more these day given the overly feminized nature of western cultures...


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## davecarter

LongWalk said:


> However, it sounds like you were in a sexless marriage prior to her cheating. This is not uncommon. When women are not happy they don't want sex.


Correct. In fact, after one particular fight we had a few months after we separated, she just flew off with: _"it makes a change to be wth someone who finds me attractive and wants to shag me once in awhile!"_


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## davecarter

Shaggy said:


> Get and read Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Kay Athol
> 
> And realize that since you haven't had sex in a year, she's likely been with him that long. She just waited to be sure until she decided to kick you out and turn you into her weekend baby sitter.


_Definately _not longer than 1st week in December '12


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## davecarter

Shaggy said:


> Get and read Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Kay Athol
> 
> And realize that since you haven't had sex in a year, she's likely been with him that long. She just waited to be sure until she decided to kick you out and turn you into her weekend baby sitter.


BTW, thanks for this: I am ordering it off Amazon as I type in this thread!


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## LostViking

Her cheating has nothing to do with your failings and evrything to do with hers. If she had complaints she should have voiced them long ago before she split.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## His_Wife_77

TimesOfChange said:


> My gut feelin tells me that this guy been on her mind before the seperation. Pure speculation but it would fit the cheater script.


:iagree:


----------



## Lovemytruck

davecarter said:


> Underlined. This is what really affected me when she told me it was him and she talked about him (of course, like a fool, I pushed and pushed)
> _(* for the record, and whether or not she is being kind, she says 'size' isn't an overriding issue here because I'm nt a 'small' guy anyway!)_
> However, I have never seen myself as particulary dominant or aggressive either in or out of the bedroom. I'm quite an easy-going guy which is what atracted Danielle to me in the beginning. She thought I was 'cool' and 'edgy'.
> So with respects to you comment about 'unable' to or 'afraid' to compete for fear of losing her _again_....you might be right.
> 
> In fact one of my friends told me bluntly:_ " she's run the marriage for so long, she probably feels like the 'husband'. Darren just makes her feel like a 'woman'
> You dropped the ball." _


This sh!t happens to the best of us. A good share of self-entitled bratty women wind-up riding a good guy into the turf, then they turn it back on them and make it their fault for being too giving.

Sorry you are here. MANY of us have the same basic story. Listen to the advice and you will be better off.

Prediction...you will finally get serious with her about exposure and divorce. You will start healing and moving forward emotionally. She will want you back. You will want to take her back. Eventually you will not want her back. You will find someone that is much more giving. You will be happier than her in the years to follow.

Hang in there! You will be ok in the end.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Sorry you're going through what you're going through. I've been there. My biggest regret is trying to "fix" the marriage once I found out about the other guy. Sometimes in the middle of it fear of the unknown makes you want to cling to the known even when it's no longer any good. It's perfectly normal.

My advice is you need to call it. I can't imagine being able to have any kind of relationship with her at this point that won't make you wonder about precisely what she did or didn't do with this other guy. To me its way too much baggage to overcome.

Do her and yourself a favour and start preparing for a divorce. Make the kids priority as they're innocent victims in all this. Although it doesn't seem like it now if you focus on taking care of your kids and yourself you will feel better about yourself in the long run and life will get better.


----------



## KanDo

When are you going to find you balls and put an end to this! Whining like a little girl on the internet and thinking about what you could have done is not solving your problem! 

1) Move back home full time. It's your house. You are being set up to be the none custodial parent
2) SEE A LAWYER. TODAY! 
3) FILE FOR DIVORCE. NOW! Site infidelity if you have enough evidence
4) Cut off your wife financially. 

Move on with your life. Your wife is a self absorbed adultress with her head in the fog bank. You have ALLOWED to be a cake eater and proven to her that you are a spineless shell of a man. I personally would not want her under any circumstances; but if you do, the only way is to be willing to lose her.

MAN UP!

Rant over. We now return you your regularly scheduled programming......


----------



## Garry2012

KanDo said:


> When are you going to find you balls and put an end to this! Whining like a little girl on the internet and thinking about what you could have done is not solving your problem!
> 
> 1) Move back home full time. It's your house. You are being set up to be the none custodial parent
> 2) SEE A LAWYER. TODAY!
> 3) FILE FOR DIVORCE. NOW! Site infidelity if you have enough evidence
> 4) Cut off your wife financially.
> 
> Move on with your life. Your wife is a self absorbed adultress with her head in the fog bank. You have ALLOWED to be a cake eater and proven to her that you are a spineless shell of a man. I personally would not want her under any circumstances; but if you do, the only way is to be willing to lose her.
> 
> MAN UP!
> 
> Rant over. We now return you your regularly scheduled programming......


I would advocate to limit finances, my atty said cutting off finances was a bad move, and could have hurt me legally. Also, it was used against me as "the evil contolling spouse"


----------



## Chaparral

You would not have sex with her, why not?

You are paying all the bills, she tells you when you can come and go home. And you sre wonderingbwhy she thinks of him as a man and you as a child?

Put him on cheaterville.com, show your wife the link and ask her if she thinks it will affact his business. Then send him the link.........unless you are afraid of him.


----------



## wranglerman

A bit lost really, but I want to ask this.

Do you *want* to reconcile???

And if so list your reasons for wanting to do so.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Garry2012 said:


> I would advocate to limit finances, my atty said cutting off finances was a bad move, and could have hurt me legally. Also, it was used against me as "the evil contolling spouse"


I agree, you cannot cut her off completely but you do not have to pay for her affair. She gets money for household items, feminine products, food, children's needs etc. Not to spend time with her lovers. Not for Victoria Secret lingerie, condoms, sex toys, Chinese takeaway to share with him etc.


----------



## Thorburn

Separation is a M killer (IMO). Especially when there are no rules, boundaries, etc. The purpose of the separation in your wife's eyes is to be free of the constraints of the M. I have seen it too many times. I worked with one couple here and he pushed for separation due to his anger issues after coming home from combat. He got in trouble with the Marines, she stuck by him. He left the service and had difficulty finding work, she stuck by him. He got into a funk and felt like he was not being the man, so he decided to separate. His wife pleaded with him not to leave, she begged him to stay. He left and moved in with his father. She immediately hooked up with another guy. My client got mad, became suicidal and I had to have him committed. He could not understand why she did this. When he left, there was no contract, no rules, no understanding of what the purpose of the separation. He assumed that it would allow him to get his head together, find work, and then bring the family back together. In her mind she felt that he no longer wanted her nor their son in his life. They discussed nothing about the separation. Then when he finds out she is seeing another man he goes beserk. He finally came to terms with this situation. His wife is seeing another man and they plan to get married after the D. My client has done just about everything wrong. He was giving his STBXW money for the child. They agreed on the amount, then his knuckleheaded father told him that he should get a court agreement. I told him not to do this as it will cost him dearly. He listened to his father, went to court, and now he is paying quite a bit more, had to sell his truck, and may loose his job.

1. Move back home. 
2. Get legal advice
3. Expose them
4. Get your finances in order
5. Do the 180
6. She has no respect for you. Right now the M is over and that is how you need to start playing this. Don't beg, don't plead, in fact stop asking her for anything.


----------



## Thorburn

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I agree, you cannot cut her off completely but you do not have to pay for her affair. She gets money for household items, feminine products, food, children's needs etc. Not to spend time with her lovers. Not for Victoria Secret lingerie, condoms, sex toys, Chinese takeaway to share with him etc.


If he is paying the bills she does not need any money. If he does the shopping he can ask her to write out a list of things she needs. I would cut her off and as long as he is paying the bills, I don't see where he is legally required to give her spending money.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Thorburn said:


> If he is paying the bills she does not need any money. If he does the shopping he can ask her to write out a list of things she needs. I would cut her off and as long as he is paying the bills, I don't see where he is legally required to give her spending money.


Example: If she is out with the kids she needs some safety money in her pocket. Cutting her off completely will make him look like a control freak to the judge. Legal, it does not matter. Don't let the judge think you are a nut. She has not worked in two years and he lived with that, he accepted it. He cannot cut her off completely now. He can however be certain that she is not spending FAMILY money on HER affair. Perfectly reasonable for him to do so. She has no defense to that.


----------



## davecarter

wranglerman said:


> A bit lost really, but I want to ask this.
> Do you *want* to reconcile???
> And if so list your reasons for wanting to do so.


It's strange but as time has been passing, I ask myself the same question, based on our history. Because Danielle and I get on quite well now (well, no-one tries kill the other), we have long talks and disucss what we can do, what we could've done and last weekend we had one such conversation (she didnt go to Darren's - she was at our marital home weekend with the kids and myself) and she asked: "I often think...we should have split up years ago when [1st-born] came along. We were fighting like cats and dogs then!"
And to be honest, I didn't disagree with her...just felt a complete feeling of 'Im-To-Blame'
I actually said to her, _"I've lost my wife and my kids - what the hell have I been doing"_
And she said: _"Dave, actions not words"_




LostViking said:


> Her cheating has nothing to do with your failings and evrything to do with hers. If she had complaints she should have voiced them long ago before she split.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LV - I honestly don;t think so: Ive taken a long, hard look at our marriage and I am just as guilty of 'neglect' as she is not opening up and talking about this. 
I am a lazy [email protected], I don't help around the home, I don't fulfill her sexual needs (or mine, obviously). There are a few little specific incidents which she has pointed out to em recently whcih she admits were the 'trigger' for her to look elsewhere.




MaritimeGuy said:


> Sorry you're going through what you're going through. I've been there. My biggest regret is trying to "fix" the marriage once I found out about the other guy. Sometimes in the middle of it fear of the unknown makes you want to cling to the known even when it's no longer any good. It's perfectly normal. My advice is you need to call it. I can't imagine being able to have any kind of relationship with her at this point that won't make you wonder about precisely what she did or didn't do with this other guy. To me its way too much baggage to overcome.
> Do her and yourself a favour and start preparing for a divorce. Make the kids priority as they're innocent victims in all this. Although it doesn't seem like it now if you focus on taking care of your kids and yourself you will feel better about yourself in the long run and life will get better.


Thanks for this, man. I think you've hit the nail on the head: 'Fear of the unknown' and if I can add to that, "losing my wife, kids, and an illusion of a stable married-life"
The first 2 months for me were sheer hell (as Im sure they are for everyone else going through this). It is this period where any thoughts of 'winning' Danielle back or 'competing' for her were not even possible for me. I just thought, _"she's with OM now, she's made her choice, he's giving her what I havent/cant....what's the point?"_
7 months on, I don't really harbour any bad feelings toward the OM: he's single, my wife's attractive, he listened to her and took his chance. Hated him at first with a passion, got obsessive about him but now, wouldnt term him as a 'PoS OM'
However, I think, deep-down, Danielle knows that whatever they have is doomed: they see each other, what, 2-3 weekends out of 4 and it's shown no signs of progressing. Apparantly, according to her, his mates have said to him: _"Got lucky with that one, Daz....that married bird's a real catch for you!" _ - but I can't see him taking her on and our 2 kids as well as his son.

Like everyone has said, she's a 'monkey': not letting go of one vine before another is in reach: she has me for the family issues and OM for sex.


----------



## lordmayhem

Your WW is playing by the cheater's handbook play by play.



davecarter said:


> Yeah, that's what I said at the time and even now but she always counters it with _"we were separated. Doesn't matter if it's 5 days or 1 day."_


This is part of the cheater's script. She wanted separation in order to continue her affair without any interference from you. She wants you to continue to finance her affair. Also, since when did separation mean she can just bang another man? Separation isn't divorce. She's just using the separation to continue the affair without any interference from you.



davecarter said:


> From what Danielle tells me, he used to be in the army from about mid-90s and then wnt he went 'civvy', he got into the building trade. He is 44, divorced, has one son and lives just 5 minutes drive from us.


In other words, the only things you know about OM all came from your WW. I have to tell you: *Cheaters lie*. The OM may well be married or have a steady GF. Find out for yourself. Very often, the cheater will tell their BS (you) that the OM is divorced or separated in order to protect the OM. The fact is, you don't really know anything about the OM until you find out for yourself. 

And if the OM is indeed married or has a GF, expose the affair! Also, follow the great advice already given to you: Move back home, cut off the finances, etc. DO NOT make it easy for them!


----------



## davecarter

lordmayhem said:


> * Your WW is playing by the cheater's handbook play by play. This is part of the cheater's script. She wanted separation in order to continue her affair without any interference from you. She wants you to continue to finance her affair. Also, since when did separation mean she can just bang another man? Separation isn't divorce. She's just using the separation to continue the affair without any interference from you.
> 
> 
> ** In other words, the only things you know about OM all came from your WW. I have to tell you: *Cheaters lie*. The OM may well be married or have a steady GF. Find out for yourself. Very often, the cheater will tell their BS (you) that the OM is divorced or separated in order to protect the OM. The fact is, you don't really know anything about the OM until you find out for yourself.
> And if the OM is indeed married or has a GF, expose the affair! Also, follow the great advice already given to you: Move back home, cut off the finances, etc. DO NOT make it easy for them!


* This must be what they call an 'Exit Affair'?

** I know he's divorced because he has full custody of his son - this is one of the things that initially appealed to my wife - the fact he was a 'man' enough to fight his ex-wife for his son when they themselves divorced.
Can't really argue with that aspect of him, I guess.

To be honest, she's no reason to lie to me about him - I've only met him once but we didn't small-talk as it was business-related,


----------



## LongWalk

Dave, 
Action. Move home.
Get in your own marital bed. If she does not want to sleep with you, it is her turn to move. Don't argue with her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Couple things
1) You are way too forgiving of the OM. Perhaps excusing is a better word.
2) As I understand it. Divorce in UK is 2 years unless you can prove infidelity. You appear to be passing up a golden opportunity. I see disaster 6 months down the road if you try to reconcile.
3) You are accepting way too much blame.
4) Players instinctively smell low hanging fruit. Your wife sounds like the ultimate in that. Let me put it this way.
Looks wise. Are you at the median or higher?
If so. With zero game. If I told you I could train you in 3 days how to start chatting up 10 married women and by Christmas you would be bedding two of them... Would that surprise you? If you have game or well up in money or looks that would be 3 of them sleeping with you. THIS IS WHAT GUYS LIKE DARREN DO! They work multiple women at once simply working the easiest path forward. Sorry your wife was an easy path! STOP GOING EASY ON DARREN!
5) Please stop playing babysitter for her fvcking Darren. You are embarrassing all men by doing this.


See a lawyer about #2. At least know what happens if you move home or if screwing your cheating wife constitutes forgiveness and shifts the field in her favor.

Have you googled this guys name to see if he comes up on cheaterville.

Edit: Respectfully disagree with Longwalk at least until you talk to that lawyer bout what happens if this or that.


----------



## Jasel

Honestly it sounds like you're making a lot of excuses to take pretty much no action. I can understand having a laid back personality but you seem to be very passive about this entire situation. That certainly isn't going to help with possibly reconciling either. I'm willing to bet your lack of action doesn't look good to your wife either, affair fog or no affair fog.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Thorburn said:


> Separation is a M killer (IMO). Especially when there are no rules, boundaries, etc. The purpose of the separation in your wife's eyes is to be free of the constraints of the M. I have seen it too many times. I worked with one couple here and he pushed for separation due to his anger issues after coming home from combat. He got in trouble with the Marines, she stuck by him. He left the service and had difficulty finding work, she stuck by him. He got into a funk and felt like he was not being the man, so he decided to separate. His wife pleaded with him not to leave, she begged him to stay. He left and moved in with his father. She immediately hooked up with another guy. My client got mad, became suicidal and I had to have him committed. He could not understand why she did this. When he left, there was no contract, no rules, no understanding of what the purpose of the separation. He assumed that it would allow him to get his head together, find work, and then bring the family back together. In her mind she felt that he no longer wanted her nor their son in his life. They discussed nothing about the separation. Then when he finds out she is seeing another man he goes beserk. He finally came to terms with this situation. His wife is seeing another man and they plan to get married after the D. My client has done just about everything wrong. He was giving his STBXW money for the child. They agreed on the amount, then his knuckleheaded father told him that he should get a court agreement. I told him not to do this as it will cost him dearly. He listened to his father, went to court, and now he is paying quite a bit more, had to sell his truck, and may loose his job.
> 
> 1. Move back home.
> 2. Get legal advice
> 3. Expose them
> 4. Get your finances in order
> 5. Do the 180
> 6. She has no respect for you. Right now the M is over and that is how you need to start playing this. Don't beg, don't plead, in fact stop asking her for anything.



This is such an important point regarding separations, i think it should be required reading for people before they get married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

davecarter said:


> It's strange but as time has been passing, I ask myself the same question, based on our history. Because Danielle and I get on quite well now (well, no-one tries kill the other), we have long talks and disucss what we can do, what we could've done and last weekend we had one such conversation (she didnt go to Darren's - she was at our marital home weekend with the kids and myself) and she asked: "I often think...we should have split up years ago when [1st-born] came along. We were fighting like cats and dogs then!"
> And to be honest, I didn't disagree with her...just felt a complete feeling of 'Im-To-Blame'
> I actually said to her, _"I've lost my wife and my kids - what the hell have I been doing"_
> *And she said: "Dave, actions not words"*
> 
> 
> 
> LV - I honestly don;t think so: Ive taken a long, hard look at our marriage and I am just as guilty of 'neglect' as she is not opening up and talking about this.
> I am a lazy [email protected], I don't help around the home, I don't fulfill her sexual needs (or mine, obviously). There are a few little specific incidents which she has pointed out to em recently whcih she admits were the 'trigger' for her to look elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for this, man. I think you've hit the nail on the head: 'Fear of the unknown' and if I can add to that, "losing my wife, kids, and an illusion of a stable married-life"
> The first 2 months for me were sheer hell (as Im sure they are for everyone else going through this). It is this period where any thoughts of 'winning' Danielle back or 'competing' for her were not even possible for me. I just thought, _"she's with OM now, she's made her choice, he's giving her what I havent/cant....what's the point?"_
> 7 months on, I don't really harbour any bad feelings toward the OM: he's single, my wife's attractive, he listened to her and took his chance. Hated him at first with a passion, got obsessive about him but now, wouldnt term him as a 'PoS OM'
> However, I think, deep-down, Danielle knows that whatever they have is doomed: t*hey see each other, what, 2-3 weekends out of 4 and it's shown no signs of progressing. *Apparantly, according to her, his mates have said to him: _"*Got lucky with that one, Daz....that married bird's a real catch for you!*" _ - but I can't see him taking her on and our 2 kids as well as his son.
> 
> Like everyone has said, she's a 'monkey': not letting go of one vine before another is in reach: s*he has me for the family issues and OM for sex.*



How can a man with self repect live like this? Disgusting..............

She said the truth stop talking and show her what you can do to live the life with self respect and dignity.


----------



## Dyokemm

DaveCarter,

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this situation.

All I can say about your situation will be quite blunt. I'm not trying to offend you when you're already hurting, but I really think you need a wake up call if you are going to move on.

Your story is painful to read.

You accept your WW's bs story about it not being cheating and just sit there being a doormat and making her life comfortable as she walks all over not only your M but your children's lives.

You have accepted the primary blame for her cheating. Yes, you should admit fault for the poor state of the M prior to your WW's A, but the A is 100% on her sh***y choices. NEVER accept any blame from her for that, ever. She had other options. She ignored them.

You basically give a predator POS a free pass for destroying your M and family. To h**l with that piece of garbage. Expose this guy for the trash he is. Use Cheaterville. If their are any websites in your country where people give feedback recommendations on contractor work (we have several here in the states) post an evaluation slamming this guy and warning others that he is a POS who will attempt to poach his client's wives.

And finally, stop giving your WW a free pass on her behavior. 

File for legal separation and D. Tell her you won't accept her disrespectful actions towards you and the M.

After filing, expose the A to all friends and family so she doesn't try to paint you as the problem. Her A destroyed the M, and everyone should know it.

Then do a hard 180 on her. Only discuss kids and the D necessities with her. Be unemotional and short in your answers.

Only consider stopping the process and trying to repair the M if she begs for another chance and shows real remorse for the damage she has done.

In short, all of these things amount to one thing for you.

Stop laying there taking her crap.

Stand up and fight for yourself! 

Demonstrate to her, POS, and everyone else that you do indeed have some self-respect and you will not take this abuse any longer.


----------



## Truthseeker1

*"When I first discovered my wife and her OM in a photo together on a friendf's FB page and confronted her, I went pretty ballistic, saw the red-mist and was all ready to go and confront him.

I asked my wife where he lived and with a bemused look on her face said: "Ummm....by all means go and confront OM...he isn't a violent man, he's not into that - he might even let you take the first swing, but he'd put you out with one punch"

Given that the OM was ex-military and a builder, I thought better of it. No point in a double-humiliation, right? "*

Dave posted this on another thread - is this the kind of woman you want back? Think about it...


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Dave, your wife is sleeping with another man and you are doing effectively zero about it. No consequences. Zero. 

Let me spell it out in black in white. She leaves at will to be his wh0re and you watch the kids. No only are you the baby sitter while she has sex with him but you financially support it as well. 

What are you going to do about it? You have been given advice here. What is your game plan? Is it to wait and let events unfold with you a bystander? 

I tell you this. If you think you are going to 'nice' and 'understand' your way out of this you will be learning a very harsh lesson and will have no one to blame but yourself. For example: Your wife is one sperm away from getting knocked up by this guy. Don't think she is not capable of letting this happen. Happens on this blog every week. 

Dave, your present lack of action, your passivity in the face of your wife's infidelities tells me I will be seeing you on this blog for the next two years while you drag yourself through an absolute hell of your own making. You're making this happen not in what you did in the past but the nothing you are doing now. 

Please, for the love of god, show your wife you have a pair, that you actually care enough about losing her that you will do something about it.


----------



## Dyokemm

Truthseeker,

Wow...she really said that to him?

F her. I would have brought back Loverboy's front teeth and set them on her dresser.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Dyokemm said:


> Truthseeker,
> 
> Wow...she really said that to him?
> 
> F her. I would have brought back Loverboy's front teeth and set them on her dresser.


He posted that in the thread I started on "the futility of confronting an affair partner" It make my stomach do flips..I'm beginning to think every guy should get some boxing or martial arts training...really....


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Truthseeker1 said:


> He posted that in the thread I started on "the futility of confronting an affair partner" It make my stomach do flips..I'm beginning to think *every guy should get some boxing or martial arts training.*..really....




If a man decide to fight nothing can stop him for that no one need a martial art training what ia needed is the will power and be fearless.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Kallan Pavithran said:


> If a man decide to fight nothing can stop him for that no one need a martial art training what ia needed is the will power and be fearless.


:iagree: If her statements did not get him to act - nothing will - absolutely nothing.


----------



## davecarter

weightlifter said:


> Couple things
> 1) You are way too forgiving of the OM. Perhaps excusing is a better word.
> 2) As I understand it. Divorce in UK is 2 years unless you can prove infidelity. You appear to be passing up a golden opportunity. I see disaster 6 months down the road if you try to reconcile.
> 3) You are accepting way too much blame.
> 4) Players instinctively smell low hanging fruit. Your wife sounds like the ultimate in that. Let me put it this way.
> Looks wise. Are you at the median or higher?
> If so. With zero game. If I told you I could train you in 3 days how to start chatting up 10 married women and by Christmas you would be bedding two of them... Would that surprise you? If you have game or well up in money or looks that would be 3 of them sleeping with you. THIS IS WHAT GUYS LIKE DARREN DO! They work multiple women at once simply working the easiest path forward. Sorry your wife was an easy path! STOP GOING EASY ON DARREN!
> 5) Please stop playing babysitter for her fvcking Darren. You are embarrassing all men by doing this.
> 
> 
> See a lawyer about #2. At least know what happens if you move home or if screwing your cheating wife constitutes forgiveness and shifts the field in her favor.
> 
> Have you googled this guys name to see if he comes up on cheaterville.
> 
> Edit: Respectfully disagree with Longwalk at least until you talk to that lawyer bout what happens if this or that.


1 - I guess in a way, I've 'accepted' that he might actually be a good partner for my wife IF we split. She certainly doesn't get te fights/hassle with him.
He has his own son and looks after him. If he was just a single guy, no ties or baggae, I'd be far less forgiving.

2 - Havent checked but I know someone who got their Decree Absolute in under 8 months.

3 - I'm just holding the mirror up to myself. I've been a good Father but a bad Husband.

4 - Looks-wise: I'm 6'3", now 180lb (dropped 30lb through stress/anxiety), full head of hair, I don;t look 'aged' for 44.
Thing is here, I always used to be quite good around women. I guess for whatever reason(s), Ive lost that ability or the stress I've endured with my marriage to Danielle has ground it away.
I do feel 'uncomfortable' around women now...thats for sure.
And yes, your 'bedding-married-women-by-Christmas-theory' - I'm intrigued yet not convinced.
BTW, just for the record, OM is same age as me but, given his physical assets, looks everyone of his years now. 

5 - I don't see what else can be done:
* - It's the only way I can see my boys
** - we are separated. There isn't a Law that states I have a hold on what my wife can do or see....is there? :scratchhead:


----------



## davecarter

Truthseeker1 said:


> He posted that in the thread I started on "the futility of confronting an affair partner" It make my stomach do flips..I'm beginning to think every guy should get some boxing or martial arts training...really....


TruthSeeker, yeah I know its not the ideal way for a guy to behave....but what am I going to do?
She wasn't trying to humiliate me...she knows me too well - she just remind for my own good that my temper/amger-managements issues would end badly for me in this scenario.


----------



## Truthseeker1

davecarter said:


> TruthSeeker, yeah I know its not the ideal way for a guy to behave....but what am I going to do?
> She wasn't trying to humiliate me...she knows me too well - she just remind for my own good that my temper/amger-managements issues would end badly for me in this scenario.


Um yeah she was trying to humiliate you...you are so wrong about that one...please Dave stop making excuses for her...


----------



## davecarter

Fruthermore to this, when she said this to me, I think this was the time when my anger turned to a feeling of being 'paralyzed'
I cannot explain it to you...if you have felt it, you'll know.

Not all guys are the same...


----------



## Truthseeker1

davecarter said:


> Fruthermore to this, when she said this to me, I think this was the time when my anger turned to a feeling of being 'paralyzed'
> I cannot explain it to you...if you have felt it, you'll know.
> 
> Not all guys are the same...


Dave you really need to jump into action in regards to the wife...listen to the advice you are getting here and stop making excuses for her..she is humiliating you over and over again...


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Dave, is your plan of action to do nothing?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

davecarter said:


> TruthSeeker, yeah I know its not the ideal way for a guy to behave....but what am I going to do?
> *She wasn't trying to humiliate me*...she knows me too well - she just remind for my own good that my temper/amger-managements issues would end badly for me in this scenario.


Her words can also be explained like this.:scratchhead:


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You are happy that she bangs him only 2 or 3 weekends not the all four weekends. You are happy that its remaining steady and not progressing to 4. But what is your plan? Let him have her till he says he had enough and OM got tired of foooking each others brain out and now its time to stop it and advice her to go back to you and work on your marriage?

If this is your plan then stop it, she will find another OM who will be Mr.Gym who can knock you down with his fingers.

Its time to man up and set up a good plan and work on it.


----------



## davecarter

Well, I expected I'd get some tough-opinions on here and you guys have given it to me.


----------



## Truthseeker1

davecarter said:


> Well, I expected I'd get some tough-opinions on here and you guys have given it to me.


Dave we are in your corner...sometimes we all need to be shaken out of a fog...we are not smarter then you we have the advantage of perspective since we are not in the middle of it...


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

davecarter said:


> Well, I expected I'd get some tough-opinions on here and you guys have given it to me.


Dont think we are bashing at you, we all went through this ****. Myself went twice and there was no TAM to help me at that time. If I got some advice like you got from TAM we may have came out of this sheeeet in a better way.

When I see, People making the mistakes I made, its painful to see.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Catching back up for the day...

The posts are consistent, and you know what the message is for you.

I differ a little on the confrontation front. I had visions of me beating the hell out of the OM, and all that stuff, but in the end screw it.

Part of being "alpha" is not giving a crap about the OM and your WW. Top dogs don't want a cheater anyway. She is trash, so let the garbage man have her.

I am not for a revenge affair, but you should seriously move towards finding something else. Go out and find some hot girls to dance with, flirt, and laugh. It will get your shattered ego out of the toilet, and make you realize that you can do better. Just be honest and upfront with any of them that you are still married, but are getting divorced. It will make the decision to D much easier.

Bad advice? In your case it appears that she needs a serious dose of her own medicine. You need something different too.

I am very pro marriage, but your STBXW is NOT worth your time.

Hang in there bro! These are your darkest days. They will end as you move forward.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Dave

Like you, I played the blame game. I blamed myself for everything. My self esteem took a nose dive. 

What I initially tried to turn into couples counselling ended up being individual counselling for me. When I went through the laundry list of "my" issues my wife had given me to excuse her actions the counsellor pointed out the majority were minor issues. These were issues that should have been discussed and worked on as opposed to being used as excuses for seeking greener pastures. 

Truthfully, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who is to blame. You can't change the past you can only deal with the present. Right now she doesn't love you anymore. Sorry to be so blunt. The best you can do now is try to make a life for yourself. Sure you can take any learnings into your next relationship to make that one that much stronger. Unfortunately though they can not be used to fix this relationship.


----------



## Jellybeans

Based on her actions and response to you that your "relationship is dead" and she is not going to stop seeing him and the fact that you are separated...

My advice is simple but not easy:

Move on. Take steps to separate yourself from her, by way of ending you relationship.

Because you see... it takes two to make a marriage work. And right now she's not into it, she's carrying on with another man and most importantly she has told you point blank she is done.

So follow suit.

Do not cling. Do not hang around. Do not try to beg your way back into her life. 

She wants out, so let her go. 

You could tell her that you are open to restoring the marriage, to marriage counseling, to do any/everything to save the marriage, if she's also on board, but that you will not live in an open marriage.

Either she will respect those boundaries or she won't. 

Since she is doing the latter... I would say try your best to end it with her and move on.


----------



## Jellybeans

MaritimeGuy said:


> Truthfully, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who is to blame. You can't change the past you can only deal with the present. Right now she doesn't love you anymore. Sorry to be so blunt. The best you can do now is try to make a life for yourself. Sure you can take any learnings into your next relationship to make that one that much stronger. Unfortunately though they can not be used to fix this relationship.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Maritime is a smart man and he is SPOT ON.


----------



## treyvion

Lovemytruck said:


> Catching back up for the day...
> 
> The posts are consistent, and you know what the message is for you.
> 
> I differ a little on the confrontation front. I had visions of me beating the hell out of the OM, and all that stuff, but in the end screw it.
> 
> Part of being "alpha" is not giving a crap about the OM and your WW. Top dogs don't want a cheater anyway. She is trash, so let the garbage man have her.
> 
> I am not for a revenge affair, but you should seriously move towards finding something else. Go out and find some hot girls to dance with, flirt, and laugh. It will get your shattered ego out of the toilet, and make you realize that you can do better. Just be honest and upfront with any of them that you are still married, but are getting divorced. It will make the decision to D much easier.


Male or woman. Once you have started up a new situation, even if it is FWB with a positive friend... You will not want to be looking back into the hell hole which was your relationship.



Lovemytruck said:


> Bad advice? In your case it appears that she needs a serious dose of her own medicine. You need something different too.
> 
> I am very pro marriage, but your STBXW is NOT worth your time.


True.



Lovemytruck said:


> Hang in there bro! These are your darkest days. They will end as you move forward.


----------



## tacoma

She was already involved with this guy way before your separation.

In fact he's the real reason for your separation.

Divorce her.


----------



## Hoosier

Dave,

So sorry you are here! But as already has been said, you've come to the right place.

1. About you taking blame for your marriage. Read my thread "Cant believe I am here" and you will see that I was the poster child for taking on the blame for my wife of 30 years moving in with a friend. You are 50% responsible for the problems with the marriage, 0% responsible for her affair. It took me a long time to figure that out, but it is the truth.

2. What took me a lot less time then you to figure out is that you can reconcile EVEN if Divorced. You can start the Divorce process, doesn't mean you have to complete it. For me, I sought Divorce after the 3rd time she rejected my attempts at R. (about 1.5 weeks) I figured, get divorced then if we R we can always get remarried if we want. But START THE D PROCESS! It is your best, and probably ONLY chance to save your marriage! You have to shake her up! Right now she has no reason to worry, you are sitting there being her little plan B, while she screws another man.

3. We are in your corner, YES WE ARE! But YOU are the one who must act! Time to fight for your marriage! Worse than not fighting the OM physically (I never did either, my kids pleaded with me to not go to jail. I still daydream, 2 years later, of taking him out for a ride. But am beginning to think not to have hit him physically may be best. Actually beginning to like the guy for taking the hussy out of my life!) You are sitting there, "Whoa is meing" That's just pathetic. 

4. I think your marriage is over. Tough words to hear, I know, as when they were told to me I would just want to cry. Continue to act like you are, and IT WILL BE OVER! Now get up and act like a man! Move back into the house! Stop giving her money! Do the 180! For YOU! Come on Dave!! Come on Dave!!


----------



## davecarter

Okay, it's now 5.30pm.
I'm going over to our marital home in about 1 hr as she has invited me over for dinner and _"it's time we talked about moving things forward"_

Will post results tonight, late, or tomorrow AM


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

davecarter said:


> Okay, it's now 5.30pm.
> I'm going over to our marital home in about 1 hr as she has invited me over for dinner and _"it's time we talked about moving things forward"_
> 
> Will post results tonight, late, or tomorrow AM


Tell her you have a date and she will be hearing from your solicitor soon enough.


----------



## Hoosier

Be sure and take your suitcase with you. When you walk in and she asks you what is that, tell her, moving back into my house with my kids. Say it matter of factly...practice on the way over if necessary. She doesn't like it? She doesn't have to stay!


----------



## Chaparral

davecarter said:


> Fruthermore to this, when she said this to me, I think this was the time when my anger turned to a feeling of being 'paralyzed'
> I cannot explain it to you...if you have felt it, you'll know.
> 
> Not all guys are the same...


You have been paralyzed, lazy and as a result she walked out on you and constantly throws the OM in your face. She is doing everything in her power to make you man up. But like you said, your lazy. You have made your bed and your lying in it. Too lazy to get up.

She told you, actions not words, and yet that's all you are doing, words on a forum. Even if she gets rid of the OM, you are not even plan B. She sees you as incomprehensible.

The only posters here that are as totally out of as you are, are the stay at home dads that are being cheated on. They have no earthly idea what goes on in a woman's mind.


----------



## turnera

davecarter said:


> he has full custody of his son - this is one of the things that initially appealed to my wife - the fact he was a 'man' enough to fight his ex-wife for his son when they themselves divorced.


Great. Then she should have no problem with you doing the same.


----------



## Thorburn

I guess what I don't understand is your passive stance on all this drama. You seem to be taking the blunt of the blame, seem to just see D as the end and loosing your kids. 

Perhaps you are just hoping this will all just end.

Hang in there.


----------



## lenzi

Thorburn said:


> I guess what I don't understand is your passive stance on all this drama. You seem to be taking the blunt of the blame, seem to just see D as the end and loosing your kids.
> 
> Perhaps you are just hoping this will all just end.
> 
> Hang in there.


I understand it. Early in my divorce, she was the initiator (although things turned around later on and I ultimately filed) but I was completely shellshocked. There was no infidelity, but she kicked me out of the house with a bogus RO, alienated the kids, and filed legal motion after legal motion which kept me reeling. 

I saw a shrink for a while who told me he counsels lots of men who are completely bowled over by all of it and they basically succumb to their fate like a deer in the headlights, without doing a thing to try to make their situation better.

Having been there and gotten past it, and having a positive outcome with my divorce.. I get it- but I will warn our friend Dave that he better get himself together sooner rather than later because with each passing day, his inaction will only push him further into the proverbial hole. Find that internal strength and fortitude, realize things are not as bad as they seem, and fight for what you know you deserve, including your kids, assets, and the right to your marital home. At least until a judge says otherwise.

Don't make it easier for your deceptive cheating spouse who just wants you out of the way as soon as possible so she can proceed with her own selfish motives that certainly don't include you.

I have nothing new to add to the great advice on this thread other to emphasize the importance of moving back into the home immediately.


----------



## Dyokemm

lenzi,

Man...I'm sorry to hear what initially happened with you. I'm glad in the end you were able to fight your way out of that.

I actually cringe every time I read a story on here where a WS (though yours wasn't cheating) tries/succeeds in turning the children against their spouse.

In my mind, that may be a worse betrayal than actual infidelity. Totally f'd up.


----------



## arbitrator

*I can only wish that my STBXW had only told me about her OM, or in the very least, left morsels of clues that I could have followed, despite my rather naive nature in the presumption that I had the most secure and loving marriage in the world.

Feel fortunate that you weren't like me only to find out about it long after she would abandon me by simply asking for a faux trial separation in order to cover her dual covert long-standing intrastate deception into simultaneous episodes of adultery with two different men from her distant past, that she had reestablished connections with on FB!

All while I was just a placating, unsuspecting dupe, being richly played by her like a harp from hell!


JUST CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY, DAVE! DROP THE HAMMER ON HER CHEATING A$$! TAKE BACK YOUR HOME AND TAKE BACK YOUR KIDS! 

SEE YOUR LAWYER POST HASTE!*


----------



## lenzi

Dyokemm said:


> lenzi,
> 
> Man...I'm sorry to hear what initially happened with you. I'm glad in the end you were able to fight your way out of that.
> 
> I actually cringe every time I read a story on here where a WS (though yours wasn't cheating) tries/succeeds in turning the children against their spouse.
> 
> In my mind, that may be a worse betrayal than actual infidelity. Totally f'd up.


Ultimately my 2 daughters came back to me, my eldest moved in with me and now she lives with her boyfriend and their two children and she has nothing to do with her mother. We are very close and visit regularly. 

My youngest also came around, she moved in with me for a year but ultimately decided she preferred the 'freedom' she got at mom's house and moved back, we went through a bit of a rocky time but we're back in contact again. 

A parent who alienates often has it backfire on them in the end but when a parent is rejected like that it can be an incredibly hard hit and almost, if not impossible to deal with. Some guys walk away, some go to pieces, others wait it out, others aggressively try to fight it. Of course that doesn't just go for fighting back against alienation, it applies to situations like our buddy Dave here.

Fight, or flight.. or something in between. But do something!


----------



## LongWalk

> 5) Please stop playing babysitter for her fvcking Darren. You are embarrassing all men by doing this.


:iagree:

Move back in your own home. Sleep in your own bed. Divorce and split your assets. There is very little chance that she will feel passion for you again. Letting her lord her hold over your heart just sets you up for repeated flagellation.


----------



## 3putt

lenzi said:


> I understand it. Early in my divorce, she was the initiator (although things turned around later on and I ultimately filed) but I was completely shellshocked. There was no infidelity, but she kicked me out of the house with a bogus RO, alienated the kids, and filed legal motion after legal motion which kept me reeling.
> 
> I saw a shrink for a while who told me he counsels lots of men who are completely bowled over by all of it and they basically succumb to their fate like a deer in the headlights, without doing a thing to try to make their situation better.
> 
> Having been there and gotten past it, and having a positive outcome with my divorce.. I get it- but I will warn our friend Dave that he better get himself together sooner rather than later because with each passing day, his inaction will only push him further into the proverbial hole. Find that internal strength and fortitude, realize things are not as bad as they seem, and fight for what you know you deserve, including your kids, assets, and the right to your marital home. At least until a judge says otherwise.
> 
> Don't make it easier for your deceptive cheating spouse who just wants you out of the way as soon as possible so she can proceed with her own selfish motives that certainly don't include you.
> 
> I have nothing new to add to the great advice on this thread other to emphasize the importance of moving back into the home immediately.


Well, it took long enough lenzi, but you finally wrote something I liked! It was bound to happen sooner or later. 

:smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

3putt said:


> Well, it took long enough lenzi, but you finally wrote something I liked! It was bound to happen sooner or later.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Yes, well written, Lenzi.


----------



## Shaggy

So basically 3 out of 4 weeks she spends giving the OM sex, and she's with Dave the week of her PMS and period.

Seriously wtf!

Dave I do hope you find your motivation to act her.

And pounding the OM won't help, put using information and the Internet to go after him , his reputation and his business can.


----------



## 3putt

Shaggy said:


> So basically 3 out of 4 weeks she spends giving the OM sex, and she's with Dave the week of her PMS and period.
> 
> Seriously wtf!
> 
> Dave I do hope you find your motivation to act her.
> 
> And pounding the OM won't help, *put using information and the Internet to go after him , his reputation and his business can.*


Yep, put him up on Cheaterville and he WILL stand up and take notice. Guess what.....so will his current and future customers. Hit him where he can feel it....in the wallet and reputation. And there ain't a damned thing he can do about it, brother.

Fight the battles you can win.


----------



## Dyokemm

If they have something like an Angie's List over in the UK, I'd be posting reviews all over that thing warning future customers that this POS contractor will try to get in your W's pants.


----------



## doubletrouble

Dave, 

Some years back, I could have been your wife's OM. I could see this coming a mile away. And your passivity would only make me feel more bold. I'd be stealing what wasn't mine, and she'd be gladly handing it over to me in bushel baskets. 

I can't stand who I used to be, but that's not my point here. The guy isn't going to stop or even slow down, and neither is she, unless they just get tired of banging each other. Sex is only so good for so long, then you (they, people like that) feel the need to move on. Maybe hang onto your gal for a while on the side of whatever new is on the side... It's a sordid life. 

Do you really want to just stand around and let some other guy handle your c0ck like that? Because that's what he's doing. Not only is he getting sex from your wife, but he's punching you right in the crotch each time he tears one off with her. And she's stabbing you with the same knife, over and over and over again. It will kill you. Your marriage is already dead, so you want to follow it down? 

What about your kid? What kind of example are you setting for him?

You're getting a HUGE wake up call, my friend. Time to reach down, find your balls (or look in your WW's purse), pull them out and start acting like you can DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR LIFE. 

Because right now your life is totally out of control. You are being controlled by everyone else in your life, and you are a doormat. 

Find one thing you can control, and control it. Something nobody else can take away from you. Like working out, anything.
_____________________________________

Now, I know how mean all that was. I'm not sorry. You really need to asssess yourself and figure out, for once in your life, what is good for DAVE. Then do what your W told you; ACT on it. 

You can do this. If you can swing it, I suggest counseling for your own self esteem issues, your anger issues and the way all those things tie together. Because what you are doing now obviously isn't working.


----------



## workindad

She was most likely involved with him before the separation. That's why he seems to have just slid right on. Funny how that works. 

File for d as fast as you can. 
Get checked for stds. 

Move back in dont make it easy for her. She wrecked this ship, not you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Thorburn said:


> Separation is a M killer (IMO). Especially when there are no rules, boundaries, etc. The purpose of the separation in your wife's eyes is to be free of the constraints of the M. I have seen it too many times. I worked with one couple here and he pushed for separation due to his anger issues after coming home from combat. He got in trouble with the Marines, she stuck by him. He left the service and had difficulty finding work, she stuck by him. He got into a funk and felt like he was not being the man, so he decided to separate. His wife pleaded with him not to leave, she begged him to stay. He left and moved in with his father. She immediately hooked up with another guy. My client got mad, became suicidal and I had to have him committed. He could not understand why she did this. When he left, there was no contract, no rules, no understanding of what the purpose of the separation. He assumed that it would allow him to get his head together, find work, and then bring the family back together. In her mind she felt that he no longer wanted her nor their son in his life. They discussed nothing about the separation. Then when he finds out she is seeing another man he goes beserk. He finally came to terms with this situation. His wife is seeing another man and they plan to get married after the D. My client has done just about everything wrong. He was giving his STBXW money for the child. They agreed on the amount, then his knuckleheaded father told him that he should get a court agreement. I told him not to do this as it will cost him dearly. He listened to his father, went to court, and now he is paying quite a bit more, had to sell his truck, and may loose his job.
> 
> 1. Move back home.
> 2. Get legal advice
> 3. Expose them
> 4. Get your finances in order
> 5. Do the 180
> 6. She has no respect for you. Right now the M is over and that is how you need to start playing this. Don't beg, don't plead, in fact stop asking her for anything.


Oh, but there were rules, Thorburn. Dave's missus made the rules, but she forgot to tell Dave what they were.

One of them would have been: "I get to bonk Bob the Builder, but Dave doesn't get to bonk Wendy!"

(As a parent of toddlers, Dave knows who Bob and Wendy are!)


----------



## Fisherman

MattMatt said:


> Oh, but there were rules, Thorburn. Dave's missus made the rules, but she forgot to tell Dave what they were.
> 
> One of them would have been: "I get to bonk Bob the Builder, but Dave doesn't get to bonk Wendy!"
> 
> (As a parent of toddlers, Dave knows who Bob and Wendy are!)


Ha I'm and old man and I know who they are.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I think many of you are being very hard on the OP. He's going through a difficult time and while some of you were undoubtedly bold and strong right out of the gate some of us suffered from uncertainty when we went through it. While I agree with your advice I think there are better ways to encourage a person to be strong than by berating him for being weak. 

Have some compassion.


----------



## 3putt

MaritimeGuy said:


> I think many of you are being very hard on the OP. He's going through a difficult time and while some of you were undoubtedly bold and strong right out of the gate some of us suffered from uncertainty when we went through it. While I agree with your advice I think there are better ways to encourage a person to be strong than by berating him for being weak.
> 
> Have some compassion.


We do have compassion, which is why we're doing what we are doing. If he keeps up what he is doing, he loses everything with his tail tucked firmly between his legs. If he starts listening and implementing the advice given, then he may have a chance.

Even if he still does lose, it won't be without a fight. And that's something he can hang onto and be proud of.

It's all about the man in the mirror at this point.


----------



## Chaparral

MaritimeGuy said:


> I think many of you are being very hard on the OP. He's going through a difficult time and while some of you were undoubtedly bold and strong right out of the gate some of us suffered from uncertainty when we went through it. While I agree with your advice I think there are better ways to encourage a person to be strong than by berating him for being weak.
> 
> Have some compassion.


Dave is in a hole and its getting deeper and deeper. We're trying to rip the shovel out of his hands.


----------



## turnera

We have compassion. That's why we are screaming at him to STOP BEING A DOORMAT. You will NEVER get what you want - your wife back - on the path you're on.


----------



## happyman64

Dave

Let us know how your talk with your wife went.

Did she hand you divorce papers at the dinner table?

I wish you would take some advice here and stand up for yourself.

Because it would be a cold day in hell I would let my wife (separated or not) band the OM for a year while I babysat on weekends.

I will tell you this. You gave up control of your marriage for a year,. Your wife sh!t tested you in the worst way for a year and you failed.

Sooner or later you will have to stand up to the plate and swing.

HM64


----------



## life101

1. Cheaters stay in a relationship/marriage only if there are not enough suitable outside options.

2. To be honest in a relationship you need empathy. Cheaters don't have it. Empathy is not something that suddenly grows inside of you when a divine light shines upon you.

3. Happiness is a cheating spouse on the rearview mirror. A cheater is not a decent person's time and effort. Why do you want to stay with her? Why is she such a catch? Why is your worth so low?

4. File for divorce. Start IC asap with a therapist experienced in infidelity related matters.

5. Protect yourself financially.

6. You have enough self-esteem not to tolerate cheating. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

7. You deserve better and you can get better. You deserve to live free, free from the fear of being cheated on and free from a life of constant fear.

8. Your children need a role model, someone who will teach them acceptable behavior and boundaries. If you forgive and accept your WS's behavior, you will set up very bad examples for your children, and this will lead to further heartaches. 

9. You are responsible for your happiness. Never in future tie your own happiness with someone or something. It will lead to pain and sufferings. Happiness has to come from within.

10. Embrace the light, knowledge, and freedom. It will get better if you want to get it better.


----------



## davecarter

Long night last night. Didn't get to bed until 3am.
Danielle and I finally drew out what we need to do and we've agreed, mutually, to divorce.
I went over, she cooked dinner, we played with our two boys and then we cracked open a bottle of wine and sat and talked, and talked.
It was all very amicable.
She pointed out problems she thought were the cause of her to leave me / hook up with OM.
But, at the end of it all, I discovered that it's nothing really to do with OM - our marriage had been toxic for a longer time than either of us wanted to admit.
She felt that, she had stopped loving me as a 'man' probably 2 years ago, a year after our youngest was born. She felt since then, she'd been _'looking after 3 children'_ ever since.
I couldn't really disagree with any of her comments and suggested that we shoulsdnt have let this carry on even further back: 2005.
It was obvious that year that the marriage wasn't working. The fights we had were horrendous and I will hold my hand up and admit that I was and have been violent toward Dani since. It's a cowardly thing to do, and one of my friends put it bluntly: _"once you hit a woman...and especially your wife...it's all over, man"_
I feel terribly ashamed and guilty and sh!t for this.

I asked her about OMs intentions, and she says I have him wrong. He did not pursue her because he wanted to take her away form me. She admits she had her head turned by him, prtobably 2 weeks after she met him which would have been last week in November 2012. She said she was hit by a meoment of sheer terror that, if she stayed with me she was going to end up in a mental-home or we end up would killing each other.
Following her initial meeting with him, she claimed she really liked him, even though, he's not a great deal to look at. 
She subsequently heard about OMs 'reputation' and that just added to the attraction. She was brutally honest with me and I guess that's what I needed to hear. She says _he _wants more from her as just a once-a-week-fcuk-buddy, but didnt want to push things, because she tells me he actually was worried about my well-being and slow descent into depression.
I didn't know what to think about this but still said _"well, lets see how long he hangs around after we're divorced"_

A few times, she was in tears when we talked about me and what had happened to me steadily over the years:
D: _"What happend to you, Dave? What happened to the 'edgy, cool' guy in the office that I totally fell head-over-heels in love with? It's like you've steadily detached from me, the kids and out live ever since_"
Me: "_Being married to you, wore me down_."
D: "_You know, since I met Darren, they've been a couple of occasions when I desperately wanted you to fight for me, fight for our marriage...do something. Can you remember_?"
This also upset me because i know the occasions she was talking about.
Back in March, I was at our home and she was getting ready to go out with OM. I commented to her how gorgeous she looked and it still killed me to see her like this.
She asked me _"So...why are you letting me to go into the arms of another man"?_I remember all I did was look at the floor, dejected, unable to say anything except: _"have a nice night"_
It's pathetic. And she was in tears about it again:
D: _"You really couldnt see...that was a sign, could you? I was urging you, Dave. To 'Man-up and grow a pair, for fcuk's sake"_ 

I feel like I should apologize to all you guys.....I dont deserve such advice from you all. I want to answer all of your posts....*BroeknInBrooklyn, TruthSeeker, MaritimeGuy, Shaggy, DoubleTrouble*, all of you very helpful, no matter how brutal - I thank you for....I wish I had found this Forum 6 months ago but as *Chapparel *put it perfectly: I've been lazy, paralysed, hoping the situatin would end between my wife and OM and things would be back to normal.

As it is, we talked about what happens to her wheh we divorce and assets are split (here in UK, it's 50-50, down the middle). Danielle put 70% into the share of our house...we workded out she would have to pay me off in order to stay in it with our kids.

I'll post some more later, if it's worth anything ....but what a terrible state of affairs... so sad for us both really.


----------



## lordmayhem

davecarter said:


> Long night last night. Didn't get to bed until 3am.
> Danielle and I finally drew out what we need to do and we've agreed, mutually, to divorce.
> I went over, she cooked dinner, we played with our two boys and then we cracked open a bottle of wine and sat and talked, and talked.
> It was all very amicable.
> She pointed out problems she thought were the cause of her to leave me / hook up with OM.
> But, at the end of it all, I discovered that it's nothing really to do with OM - our marriage had been toxic for a longer time than either of us wanted to admit.
> She felt that, she had stopped loving me as a 'man' probably 2 years ago, a year after our youngest was born. She felt since then, she'd been _'looking after 3 children'_ ever since.
> I couldn't really disagree with any of her comments and suggested that we shoulsdnt have let this carry on even further back: 2005.
> It was obvious that year that the marriage wasn't working. The fights we had were horrendous and I will hold my hand up and admit that I was and have been violent toward Dani since. It's a cowardly thing to do, and one of my friends put it bluntly: _"once you hit a woman...and especially your wife...it's all over, man"_
> I feel terribly ashamed and guilty and sh!t for this.
> 
> I asked her about OMs intentions, and she says I have him wrong. He did not pursue her because he wanted to take her away form me. She admits she had her head turned by him, prtobably 2 weeks after she met him which would have been last week in November 2012. She said she was hit by a meoment of sheer terror that, if she stayed with me she was going to end up in a mental-home or we end up would killing each other.
> Following her initial meeting with him, she claimed she really liked him, even though, he's not a great deal to look at.
> She subsequently heard about OMs 'reputation' and that just added to the attraction. She was brutally honest with me and I guess that's what I needed to hear. She says _he _wants more from her as just a once-a-week-fcuk-buddy, but didnt want to push things, because she tells me he actually was worried about my well-being and slow descent into depression.
> I didn't know what to think about this but still said _"well, lets see how long he hangs around after we're divorced"_
> 
> A few times, she was in tears when we talked about me and what had happened to me steadily over the years:
> D: _"What happend to you, Dave? What happened to the 'edgy, cool' guy in the office that I totally fell head-over-heels in love with? It's like you've steadily detached from me, the kids and out live ever since_"
> Me: "_Being married to you, wore me down_."
> D: "_You know, since I met Darren, they've been a couple of occasions when I desperately wanted you to fight for me, fight for our marriage...do something. Can you remember_?"
> This also upset me because i know the occasions she was talking about.
> Back in March, I was at our home and she was getting ready to go out with OM. I commented to her how gorgeous she looked and it still killed me to see her like this.
> She asked me _"So...why are you letting me to go into the arms of another man"?_I remember all I did was look at the floor, dejected, unable to say anything except: _"have a nice night"_
> It's pathetic. And she was in tears about it again:
> D: _"You really couldnt see...that was a sign, could you? I was urging you, Dave. To 'Man-up and grow a pair, for fcuk's sake"_
> 
> I feel like I should apologize to all you guys.....I dont deserve such advice from you all. I want to answer all of your posts....*BroeknInBrooklyn, TruthSeeker, MaritimeGuy, Shaggy, DoubleTrouble*, all of you very helpful, no matter how brutal - I thank you for....I wish I had found this Forum 6 months ago but as *Chapparel *put it perfectly: I've been lazy, paralysed, hoping the situatin would end between my wife and OM and things would be back to normal.
> 
> As it is, we talked about what happens to her wheh we divorce and assets are split (here in UK, it's 50-50, down the middle). Danielle put 70% into the share of our house...we workded out she would have to pay me off in order to stay in it with our kids.
> 
> I'll post some more later, if it's worth anything ....but what a terrible state of affairs... so sad for us both really.


This is so sad.

I think I'm going to be sick. Good luck Dave. Your passiveness is your downfall. Work on that. Otherwise, women will be wiping their feet on you the rest of your life. I truly hope you work to improve and better yourself.


----------



## life101

Glad to hear that you have decided to divorce. Welcome to light.
Never hit a woman again. Count how many times you have hit her, multiply them by 10 and donate those many hours to soup kitchen or other charities.
She is entitled and thrives on prohibited fun. She admits that she wanted those ego kibbles. Read more on them here: The Humiliating Dance of ‘Pick Me’! 
This will give you enough insight into your STBXW.

Work on yourself and never be a doormat again. All said and done, most people are sheep and like to be led on. So strive to be a leader.


----------



## davecarter

lordmayhem said:


> This is so sad.
> 
> I think I'm going to be sick. Good luck Dave. Your passiveness is your downfall. Work on that. Otherwise, women will be wiping their feet on you the rest of your life. I truly hope you work to improve and better yourself.


It's okay, thank you for your words.
You know what really upset Danielle? When she pushed me last night: _"I have to ask you here and now: Do you want me? Do you want me back?"_

I answwred_ "No"._


I feel, at the same time, an immense amount of sadness myself but also relief.


----------



## davecarter

Chaparral said:


> You have been paralyzed, lazy and as a result she walked out on you and constantly throws the OM in your face. She is doing everything in her power to make you man up. But like you said, your lazy. You have made your bed and your lying in it. Too lazy to get up.
> 
> She told you, actions not words, and yet that's all you are doing, words on a forum. Even if she gets rid of the OM, you are not even plan B. She sees you as incomprehensible.
> 
> The only posters here that are as totally out of as you are, are the stay at home dads that are being cheated on. They have no earthly idea what goes on in a woman's mind.


This is pretty much, if not word-for-word, what Danielle said to me last night. Uncanny, huh?:scratchhead:


----------



## davecarter

Thorburn said:


> I guess what I don't understand is your passive stance on all this drama. You seem to be taking the blunt of the blame, seem to just see D as the end and losing your kids. Perhaps you are just hoping this will all just end.
> Hang in there.


I have to agree with this post also. You guys have me worked out, it's embarrassing. I'm the only one who was conning myself.



doubletrouble said:


> Dave,
> Some years back, I could have been your wife's OM. I could see this coming a mile away. And your passivity would only make me feel more bold. I'd be stealing what wasn't mine, and she'd be gladly handing it over to me in bushel baskets.
> I can't stand who I used to be, but that's not my point here. The guy isn't going to stop or even slow down, and neither is she, unless they just get tired of banging each other. Sex is only so good for so long, then you (they, people like that) feel the need to move on. Maybe hang onto your gal for a while on the side of whatever new is on the side... It's a sordid life.
> 
> Do you really want to just stand around and let some other guy handle your c0ck like that? Because that's what he's doing. Not only is he getting sex from your wife, but he's punching you right in the crotch each time he tears one off with her. And she's stabbing you with the same knife, over and over and over again. It will kill you. Your marriage is already dead, so you want to follow it down?
> 
> What about your kid? What kind of example are you setting for him?
> 
> You're getting a HUGE wake up call, my friend. Time to reach down, find your balls (or look in your WW's purse), pull them out and start acting like you can DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR LIFE.
> Because right now your life is totally out of control. You are being controlled by everyone else in your life, and you are a doormat. Find one thing you can control, and control it. Something nobody else can take away from you. Like working out, anything.
> _____________________________________
> Now, I know how mean all that was. I'm not sorry. You really need to asssess yourself and figure out, for once in your life, what is good for DAVE. Then do what your W told you; ACT on it. You can do this. If you can swing it, I suggest counseling for your own self esteem issues, your anger issues and the way all those things tie together. Because what you are doing now obviously isn't working.


Man, that was some blunt but truthful post. Please don;t apologize though!
However, the only thing I can offer in my pathetic defence, is that I didnt find out about OM until 7 weeks after the day we separated. I got into that whole mindset of: _"Oh, okay. She's gone. We've split up, she's met someone else. She's moved on"_
I fell apart in the week and month that followed. I became obsessed with her and OM...I became obsessed with the _OM_. Constant mind-movies.

All I could do was summon whatever I had left and still be strong for my kids. Unfortunatelt this meant going to our marital home, while Danielle went to OMs house.
I accepted that as muich as I accepted _"It's over. She's got someone else. All's fair in love and war"_
I asked Dani last night, why she didnt just come out with the fact she'd met someone anyway...and she said given my volatile and fragile emotional and mental state, she didnt want to cause me any more ditsress than she knew it would.
And I posted on another thread about me going to confront OM only for Dani to point out it would end rather badly for me if I did.
She knows me only too well.


----------



## turnera

Um, why would a woman who's been hit - more than once, I gather - by her husband, TELL her husband about another man? Really, dude?

You're freakin' lucky she even WANTED you to fight for her, given what you did.


----------



## Truthseeker1

You hit her? That changes everything for me..._*NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER*_ touch your wife...you are supposed to be her protector...


----------



## davecarter

I know, I know.
Like I said, our marriage was volatile from about 2005 onwards.
She toward me and unfortunatelty me back...

I know I'm a PoS...should close this thread now that divorce is now the decisions made....

I'm sorry guys.


----------



## weightlifter

davecarter said:


> I have to agree with this post also. You guys have me worked out, it's embarrassing. I'm the only one who was conning myself.
> 
> Man, that was some blunt but truthful post. Please don;t apologize though!
> However, the only thing I can offer in my pathetic defence, is that I didnt find out about OM until 7 weeks after the day we separated. I got into that whole mindset of: _"Oh, okay. She's gone. We've split up, she's met someone else. She's moved on"_
> I fell apart in the week and month that followed. I became obsessed with her and OM...I became obsessed with the _OM_. Constant mind-movies.
> 
> All I could do was summon whatever I had left and still be strong for my kids. Unfortunatelt this meant going to our marital home, while Danielle went to OMs house.
> I accepted that as muich as I accepted _"It's over. She's got someone else. All's fair in love and war"_
> I asked Dani last night, why she didnt just come out with the fact she'd met someone anyway...and she said given my volatile and fragile emotional and mental state, she didnt want to cause me any more ditsress than she knew it would.
> And I posted on another thread about me going to confront OM only for Dani to point out it would end rather badly for me if I did.
> She knows me only too well.


Dave. You are correct. Double has a knack for posting powerfully here. I use one of his posts as a quote for the betrayal pain. He did a masterful job in that one too. You can feel the agony in his words.

Did she spend Valentines Day with YOU or him?
This thing went PA roughly Nov of last year?

The point Im getting at is she wanted you to fight for her in March 2013 AFTER she is banging another dude. My fault with you is the passivity. Once you learned of her banging another dude you shoulda went nuclear. Water under the bridge, I know. What I am getting at is she asks if she wants you and you answer no. Ill never understand those who want their wives AFTER a PA. I admire the fortitude of some like DoubleTrouble but Ill never understand it.

Odd thought. I'm not a much of a fighter but I cut my wifes EA off HARD with an immediate "him or me" demand. You are a fighter and let it fester and literally watched her walk out the door to be with another man. Odd.

Anyway. Heal up. You have a TON of issues. Hitting a girl is NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER acceptable. GET THAT FIXED!!!! Get your head on straight. Get your ego in place to heal. Get laid after you get your ego ready for repair. That first poon will get your ego to 60%. Yes really. We see it time and time again. "I just got laid and I feel like a new man!" posts are one of my favorites. It shows our charges coming back up the other side of a bad valley in their lives. Once the ego is at 60% the heart will mend at probably 10 times the rate.

Stick around. We are good at the healing end of this grim game too. Plus, many of us are not here for the drama. We actually like to see the healing side as well.

Hit community. Pick Poster list. Choose BFF. Read his whole thread and picture yourself there in a year or two. Its a full cycle thread. Discovery, defeat, divorce, healing, a new wonderful woman in his life.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I hope you are getting professional help Dave. I read this thread - your comments and it is pretty clear to me you are suffering from quite a bit of depression. Please see a counslor/therapist asap. For yourself and children.


----------



## davecarter

weightlifter said:


> Dave. You are correct. Double has a knack for posting powerfully here. I use one of his posts as a quote for the betrayal pain. He did a masterful job in that one too. You can feel the agony in his words.
> 
> Did she spend Valentines Day with YOU or him?
> This thing went PA roughly Nov of last year?
> 
> The point Im getting at is she wanted you to fight for her in March 2013 AFTER she is banging another dude. My fault with you is the passivity. Once you learned of her banging another dude you shoulda went nuclear. Water under the bridge, I know. What I am getting at is she asks if she wants you and you answer no. Ill never understand those who want their wives AFTER a PA. I admire the fortitude of some like DoubleTrouble but Ill never understand it.
> 
> Odd thought. I'm not a much of a fighter but I cut my wifes EA off HARD with an immediate "him or me" demand. You are a fighter and let it fester and literally watched her walk out the door to be with another man. Odd.
> 
> Anyway. Heal up. You have a TON of issues. Hitting a girl is NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER acceptable. GET THAT FIXED!!!! Get your head on straight. Get your ego in place to heal. Get laid after you get your ego ready for repair. That first poon will get your ego to 60%. Yes really. We see it time and time again. "I just got laid and I feel like a new man!" posts are one of my favorites. It shows our charges coming back up the other side of a bad valley in their lives. Once the ego is at 60% the heart will mend at probably 10 times the rate.
> 
> Stick around. We are good at the healing end of this grim game too. Plus, many of us are not here for the drama. We actually like to see the healing side as well.
> 
> Hit community. Pick Poster list. Choose BFF. Read his whole thread and picture yourself there in a year or two. Its a full cycle thread. Discovery, defeat, divorce, healing, a new wonderful woman in his life.


Not sure if sticking around is wise for me now: admission of being a verbal/physical abuser of a wife.

A no-no.


----------



## Truthseeker1

davecarter said:


> I know, I know.
> Like I said, our marriage was volatile from about 2005 onwards.
> She toward me and unfortunatelty me back...
> *
> I know I'm a PoS...should close this thread now that divorce is now the decisions made....*
> 
> I'm sorry guys.


Dave there is enough blame to go around..your wife is no angel....and think of what she is doing to her sons....the whole situation is sad....


----------



## Truthseeker1

davecarter said:


> Not sure if sticking around is wise for me now: admission of being a verbal/physical abuser of a wife.
> 
> A no-no.


You should stick around so we can see your redemption..no one here thinks you don't deserve a second chance....


----------



## weightlifter

Dave stick around. "The Guy" was a hitter. NEVER DO IT AGAIN! GET THAT FIXED! The Guy has been here far longer than I.

Couple stray things.

You may be intrigued by what I said about being able to bed 2 or 3 target married women but I make it for point only. There are TONS of Darrens out there preying on married women. TONS. The script on just how to do it IS SICKENINGLY HORRIBLY SIMPLE! Your wife fell for it. Your fault for not crushing it on DD1 HER FAULT for falling for it.

RDMUs Bob is an alpha predator with at least 3 known and probably dozens of married women under his belt. As I said. Everywhere. You may be intrigued by what I said but I wrote it for point only. No way in hell I will create another predator... Because then, in affect I will also be responsible for any families wrecked. Not gonna happen.

So yea, stick around. You will get big points by going into DV counseling and NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER hitting a girl again!

Now go to the mirror and look yourself in the eye. YES REALLY DO THIS!
1) Promise yourself this IS DAY 1 of Dave Carter version 2.0. 
2) Hit the gym for yourself and your girlfriend from step 5 below
3) GET THAT DV COUNSELING NOW!!
4) Read BFF thread IN ENTIRETY!
5) Do what BFF does and go full cycle. Be here in say a year so you can be the next thread I reference. Tell yourself you WILL love again. THEN DO IT!
6) When new girlfriend that you NEVER HAVE HIT accepts your offer of exclusivity. Post "Weightlifter you were right! I LOVE MY NEW LIFE!"

DO THIS NOW!


----------



## weightlifter

What I find interesting is personal boundaries. My wife has at points angered me so much. Once we were arguing and she hit me on the back of the arm kinda hard that left a small mark. I instinctively curled my fist (still in the down position) then like a half second later uncurled it with the though "crap thats a girl"

Where does that boundary break down at?

Sorry for the threadjack


----------



## turnera

davecarter said:


> Not sure if sticking around is wise for me now: admission of being a verbal/physical abuser of a wife.
> 
> A no-no.


 Don't be silly. We all have skeletons. The beauty of an anonymous forum is that you CAN admit the worst of you and still get help. Glass houses and all that...

And don't forget what SHE did.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw, you should also know that everything you WW said about reasons , justifications, etc is right out of the standard cheaters script.

Everything

- marriage was done a long time before she cheated 
- its your fault for not stopping her going to him 
- the OM is a great guy who cares about you

ALL garbage

- if the marriage was done she should have told you years ago. 

- she is a married woman - she should have chosen not to cheat and date until a D was done. It isn't your place to have to restrain her from cheating,

- the OM doesn't care at all. In fact typical player game is to say they don't want to have sex until the WW chooses to come to them on her own to have sex, yet they will keep pushing the physical closeness threshold more and more.

This OM is a player and you're allowing cheater speak from your wife to get you to pull in your tail and go quietly away.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw - has your wife also physically hit you?


----------



## Thorburn

The passivity is guilt driven and now I understand it a little better. You were abusive to your wife and when she really hurt you, really did the thing that you really did not want, found another man, you became dormant, passive and your behavior/reaction is very much guilt driven by the way you treated your wife.

In another way you feel like you deserve this, therefor you did not fight for your wife.

Your behavior in the way you dealt with your wife is just plain wrong. 

The M was not over years ago. It could had been repaired. If you had coaching on productive ways of dealing with stress and ways to argue in a M, how to have a fair fight, you could have advoided the physical actions you took.

So you blew it. Many folks do in life. But your wife is no angel either. 

Get help, seriously, for your guilt, depression and whatever else is causing your behaviors. Your kids are going to need you and you need to healthly for them.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Thorburn said:


> The passivity is guilt driven and now I understand it a little better. You were abusive to your wife and when she really hurt you, really did the thing that you really did not want, found another man, you became dormant, passive and your behavior/reaction is very much guilt driven by the way you treated your wife.
> 
> In another way you feel like you deserve this, therefor you did not fight for your wife.
> 
> Your behavior in the way you dealt with your wife is just plain wrong.
> 
> The M was not over years ago. It could had been repaired. If you had coaching on productive ways of dealing with stress and ways to argue in a M, how to have a fair fight, you could have advoided the physical actions you took.
> 
> So you blew it. Many folks do in life. But your wife is no angel either.
> 
> Get help, seriously, for your guilt, depression and whatever else is causing your behaviors. Your kids are going to need you and you need to healthly for them.


Dave listen to this man- he knows his stuff....your wife is no angel..and you deserve a second chance..the way she has broken up your family is inexcusable no matter what...your kids will pay the price for her selfishness..fix yourself man....


----------



## doubletrouble

weightlifter said:


> What I find interesting is personal boundaries. My wife has at points angered me so much. Once we were arguing and she hit me on the back of the arm kinda hard that left a small mark. I instinctively curled my fist (still in the down position) then like a half second later uncurled it with the though "crap thats a girl"
> 
> Where does that boundary break down at?
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack


Not really a threadjack, maybe because I want to comment on it... 

During our meltdown(s), W struck me a few times. She was really ashamed of that, having been in a marriage where HE beat her regularly, sent her to the hospital three different times in five years. 

I never hit her back. 

As angry and righteous as I felt, I never hit her back. That's not being whipped, that's being a MAN, in control of your own emotions and reactions. Dave, you need to learn this. It's really important. 

I have bruised W's arms, by raising my own arms to defend/deflect her attempts to strike me. She later pointed to those and said "you hit me here." I pointed out the truth, and she had to own that. I got respect for that from her, later. It didn't seem obvious at the time. 

Just sharing some experience with you. I hope some of this sinks in and helps. 

Nobody's going to nuke you here for being where you are in life. A lot of us are older and have had a lot of problems, too. And learned how to deal with them in ways that aren't destructive to our relationships. Marriage and committed relationships require work not only on the relationship, but on ourselves as well. *All the time. *

This one's behind you, except for your child. Learn, grow, live well, be true to yourself and be assertive. That doesn't mean be angry. Place boundaries in your life for people -- all people, not just in your next LTR. Don't allow those to be crossed. If you don't know the difference between boundaries and expectations, google it or look around this forum. 

We can still help you and want to. You actually DO have (anonymous) friends here.


----------



## weightlifter

Read the top link in my thread. *I* and others helped him through this period in his life. Another poster RDMU and actual friend now.

Stick around. You would be surprised how much this group can help you cause all of us have some of your issues.

Oh and we are FREE.


----------



## Jellybeans

davecarter said:


> I asked her about OMs intentions, and she says I have him wrong. He did not pursue her because he wanted to take her away form me. *She admits she had her head turned by him, prtobably 2 weeks after she met him which would have been last week in November 2012.*


By that account, the affair has been going on about 8 or 9 months now. That you know of. 

Disentangle yourself as best as you can and don't look back.

For as crappy as your marriage was, just know that, your marriage didn't have a chance, a leg to stand on at all for the past 8 months. It was a done deal. She was just going through the motions and sadly stringing you along. 

Carry on.


----------



## WyshIknew

life101 said:


> Glad to hear that you have decided to divorce. Welcome to light.
> Never hit a woman again. Count how many times you have hit her, multiply them by 10 and donate those many hours to soup kitchen or other charities.
> She is entitled and thrives on prohibited fun. She admits that she wanted those ego kibbles. Read more on them here: The Humiliating Dance of ‘Pick Me’!
> This will give you enough insight into your STBXW.
> 
> Work on yourself and never be a doormat again. All said and done, most people are sheep and like to be led on. So strive to be a leader.


I don't know about this. I agree that in general hitting a woman is not a good idea, but it depends on the circumstances.

If you don't want me to hit you, don't hit me.

I hit my wife once in our marriage, she/we was/were going through a bad period for a couple of years. She had hit me already a number of times, usually a slap across the face.

On the last occasion she slapped me, threw a jug of lemonade in my face and through the stinging in my eyes I saw her advancing towards me with the jug in her hands. I panicked and raised my fist and punched her once, luckily I was able to pull my punch at the last moment but still connected with her shoulder. As I punched I remember shouting "Stop fcuking hitting me."

She never ever hit me again.


----------



## manfromlamancha

From what I have read, Dave, it is still not too late to redeem yourself and your self esteem. *Man up, go get your wife - she wants you to.* Make her remorseful for what she has done and you show remorse for striking her. But above all man up and do what is right - sitting back in self pity is very destructive all round.


----------



## davecarter

Shaggy said:


> Btw, you should also know that everything you WW said about reasons , justifications, etc is right out of the standard cheaters script.
> Everything
> - marriage was done a long time before she cheated
> - its your fault for not stopping her going to him
> - the OM is a great guy who cares about you
> ALL garbage
> - if the marriage was done she should have told you years ago.
> - she is a married woman - she should have chosen not to cheat and date until a D was done. It isn't your place to have to restrain her from cheating
> - the OM doesn't care at all. In fact typical player game is to say they don't want to have sex until the WW chooses to come to them on her own to have sex, yet they will keep pushing the physical closeness threshold more and more.
> This OM is a player and you're allowing cheater speak from your wife to get you to pull in your tail and go quietly away.
> 
> btw he she physicallt hit you?


Shaggy, you're possibly right on a number of these issues but:
1 - We are both in agreement that the marriage was failing badly a long time ago. When our first child was born, the cracks were starting to show then. We really should have called it a day but then #2 came along and I think 'papering-over-the-cracks' was evrident as from 2010 onwards, things have been bad.
Last 8 months of last year were horrible. In fact, I actually said to Dani the other night when we had dinner: "_I'm surprised you didn't leave me years ago_"

2 - It is a lot of my fault for not doing anything to stop her but as I've outlined previously, whehn I found out about her and OM, it numbed me. Never thought that such emotional pain could turn so physical. So, the fact that I was trying to keep myself together in whatever capacity, would leave little chance of me doing anything to get her back.

3 - Darren the OM. I'm sure he as totally indifferent to me, but he was aware that I had problems with what happened and that is shown on the occasions at various weekends, when I've gone out with Danielle and the boys and he hasn't 'kicked-off'
If I can give another example - we went away for 3 days at Easter which Danielle planned and then she almost did a 'U-Turn' by saying, _"Im not sure this is a good idea - I'll have to clear it with Darren_"
What Im saying is - both Danielle and Darren now feel they are a 'couple' in some kind of relationship. 
However, I do agree with you that he was a player initially, telling here he didnt want anything physical from my wife...but he definately put that pressure on her back in December Im sure.

4 - yes, she has used physical violence toward me on a number of occasions. Nothing major. Just typical chick-stuff...


Here's another question for the Forum on the subject of 'Dating During Separation':
What happens when you officially separate and you want to start dating again? Where is the rule that says "You can't date/fcuk anyone else because you have to wait for the ** day/week/month mark"?


----------



## davecarter

Thorburn said:


> The passivity is guilt driven and now I understand it a little better. You were abusive to your wife and when she really hurt you, really did the thing that you really did not want, found another man, you became dormant, passive and your behavior/reaction is very much guilt driven by the way you treated your wife.
> 
> In another way you feel like you deserve this, therefor you did not fight for your wife.
> 
> Your behavior in the way you dealt with your wife is just plain wrong.
> 
> The M was not over years ago. It could had been repaired. If you had coaching on productive ways of dealing with stress and ways to argue in a M, how to have a fair fight, you could have advoided the physical actions you took.
> 
> So you blew it. Many folks do in life. But your wife is no angel either.
> 
> Get help, seriously, for your guilt, depression and whatever else is causing your behaviors. Your kids are going to need you and you need to healthly for them.


Thanks Thorburn - sadly I think you, like everyone else here is right on the money about this and the guilt thing.


----------



## WyshIknew

davecarter said:


> Here's another question for the Forum on the subject of 'Dating During Separation':
> What happens when you officially separate and you want to start dating again? Where is the rule that says "You can't date/fcuk anyone else because you have to wait for the ** day/week/month mark"?


Well my opinion on this is, and I know a lot of peeps here don't agree although some do, is that once your WS has blown up the marriage *and when you have categorically said you are done and divorce is on the way* then all bets are off. Why should *you* wait. They nuked the marriage and you've said you are done.

What I don't agree with is dating/humping somebody else while still in limbo. 

One chap, Hoosier, actually asked his WW if she would verbally release him from his wedding vows.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28389-never-thought-i-would-posting-here.html

You could try that with Dani. It might just shock her to find out she is nothing special and can be replaced just like that.


----------



## workindad

You didn't have sex with your wife in over a year... are you sure this is the only OM, or just the first you knew about?

File for D.
Post them both on Cheaterville.


----------



## davecarter

workindad said:


> You didn't have sex with your wife in over a year... are you sure this is the only OM, or just the first you knew about?
> 
> File for D.
> Post them both on Cheaterville.


Categorically, 100% only guy.
_(but then, having said that, does ANYONE know 100% if their husband or wife is faithful? It's impossible to know)_


----------



## happyman64

davecarter said:


> Categorically, 100% only guy.
> _(but then, having said that, does ANYONE know 100% if their husband or wife is faithful? It's impossible to know)_


That is not true dave.

I know 100% that my wife has not cheated on me. Ever.

She is deathly afraid of taking her clothes off for anyone including me! 

I hope I made you laugh.

Stay strong Dave. Your wife sucks my man but life will get better if you truly want it to.

And I think you do....


----------



## happyman64

And Dave can I say one more thing to you.

I truly hope you decide to change. To get better mentally, physically and spiritually.

Not just for your children but for yourself.

But secretly I hope you do it so in ten years when your exw has a family event that you both attend you have done the following:

You look great.
You feel great.
You are a strong confident man.
You have a beautiful woman on your arm who loves you for who you are.
That you love your children and want to be the best father for them.

And I hope your EXW scratches her head and wonders why you could not be that man with her for the rest of her life.....

So stop being depressed, get off your lazy butt and start moving forward with your new life.

You might have been an abuser but I also think you have been abused.

If you felt your wife was worth fighting for I think you would have fought for her.

Obviously she was not worth it to you Dave.

Cheaters rarely are. Especially when they think it will motivate their husbands to action.

In the end you both lost.

I hope you make the decision to be happy Dave.

Good Luck

HM64


----------



## LostViking

Dave I think you should cut your losses and divorce her. She is not coming back n

I won't beat you over the head with the mistakes you' made. Just learn from them, move on, and don't make the same mistakes in your future relationships that you made in this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Dave, your lawyer is the only one who can tell you about the green light to fvck other women without messing up the divorce.


----------



## davecarter

happyman64 said:


> And Dave can I say one more thing to you.
> 
> I truly hope you decide to change. To get better mentally, physically and spiritually.
> 
> Not just for your children but for yourself.
> 
> But secretly I hope you do it so in ten years when your exw has a family event that you both attend you have done the following:
> 
> You look great.
> You feel great.
> You are a strong confident man.
> You have a beautiful woman on your arm who loves you for who you are.
> That you love your children and want to be the best father for them.
> 
> And I hope your EXW scratches her head and wonders why you could not be that man with her for the rest of her life.....
> 
> So stop being depressed, get off your lazy butt and start moving forward with your new life.
> 
> You might have been an abuser but I also think you have been abused.
> 
> If you felt your wife was worth fighting for I think you would have fought for her.
> 
> Obviously she was not worth it to you Dave.
> 
> Cheaters rarely are. Especially when they think it will motivate their husbands to action.
> 
> In the end you both lost.
> 
> I hope you make the decision to be happy Dave.
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> HM64


Thanks HM!
You're right abut abuse: I suffered when I was a child...kind of physical and mental abuse really...but it would be back in the 1970s when kids 'punishing' parents was a regular thing not like things are now...but it did affect me.
I do feel incredibly guilty about what I did toward Danielle and now, when I sit back and reflect..I really am surprised a) she didn't meet someone else sooner and b) stayed with me for so long.
But then, kids do change the mindset incredibly.

As for fighting for my wife - you are right (as is she): I've done fcuk-all about it apart sit back and (hope) wait for it to blow itself out.
It has of course, dropped off a lot in the last 2-3 months....she even tried to end it totally in May, but Im sure that down the line, unless I change dramatically (and her also), the marriage would carry on in its own toxic way and she (or even I) would have our head turned again.

Many thanks!


----------



## happyman64

At least you are aware of all the damage on both sides Dave.

Like I said I hope you decide to be happy.

You deserve it.
Your kids deserve it.

But in my mind dani does not deserve your happiness.

She cheated. End of story.

Now write this on your mirror and on your refrigerator dave in big letters.

"Just Do It!"

Go be happy Dave.

HM


----------



## librarydragon

Truthseeker1 said:


> Dave listen to this man- he knows his stuff....your wife is no angel..and you deserve a second chance..the way she has broken up your family is inexcusable no matter what...your kids will pay the price for her selfishness..fix yourself man....


Really? He HIT his wife, and deserves a second chance, but she has done the inexcusable?

I wonder if you were a woman, BEATEN by your husband, if you would think so.

Disgusting.


----------



## librarydragon

And, by the way, as an ABUSER, a judge will not see him as a good choice as a custodial parent. When will he hit them? Anyone live with teenagers lately?


----------



## Truthseeker1

librarydragon said:


> Really? He HIT his wife, and deserves a second chance, but she has done the inexcusable?
> 
> I wonder if you were a woman, BEATEN by your husband, if you would think so.
> 
> Disgusting.


Why don't you read all my posts before attacking me.* No one on this board excused the abuse - no one.....* We all told him to get help....


----------



## Cinema79

I have to bump this because Dave Carter’s post in another thread had me wondering about his story.

Dave, my story is the same as yours, minus the whole kids thing. I had a rather brief marriage with no children – but the similarities lie in that once my wife and I separated, she was with her co-worker immediately after and before our divorce was finalized. In short, she had wanted to be with this guy for a long time and had checked out our marriage only two years in. I’ll save you all the awful details, but I spiraled into severe depression, lack of self esteem, and felt completely hopeless. Weight loss, panic attacks, crying. 

Just like you, I did the whole comparison thing to with the OM. What does he have that I don’t have? I was better looking, in shape, a great catch, a provider, and loved her. This guy was a fat slob who makes marginally more money and lives with his mom. I did not understand it. 

I am here to tell you that it gets better, A LOT better.

I am so glad that I’m divorced from my cheating ex-wife and I would not have it any other way. The woman I’m with now is prettier, smarter, more independent, loyal, and is borderline obsessed with me. We laugh, we have sex all the time, we eat at amazing restaurants, its awesome.

What I did WAS repair myself and swear off relationships for more than a year. I worked out, flirted a ton, focused on work, spent time with family, made all new friends, found a new job that pays me a ton of money, and moved to a beautiful new town and far away from my ex-wife and her new boyfriend. I became someone I WANTED to be, and the result was a woman who came into my life who loved my confidence, humor, independence, etc. 

One day, while on Facebook, I saw a picture of my ex’s new boyfriend and laughed my ass off. Why? Because I knew I’d won and he had lost. He gained a bi-polar trainwreck of a girlfriend and I had gained my freedom from a truly awful individual. If I ever meet the guy, I’m going to shake his hand and tell him thanks for taking her off my hands.

You losing your wife to this other guy is a blessing in disguise! Your wife will never change, it doesn’t matter who she is with. She will turn on him just like she turned on you. She’s garbage.
Get yourself together and take charge of your life! I did, and my life is great now!


----------



## davecarter

Cinema79 said:


> I have to bump this because Dave Carter’s post in another thread had me wondering about his story.
> 
> Dave, my story is the same as yours, minus the whole kids thing. I had a rather brief marriage with no children – but the similarities lie in that once my wife and I separated, she was with her co-worker immediately after and before our divorce was finalized. In short, she had wanted to be with this guy for a long time and had checked out our marriage only two years in. I’ll save you all the awful details, but I spiraled into severe depression, lack of self esteem, and felt completely hopeless. Weight loss, panic attacks, crying.
> 
> Just like you, I did the whole comparison thing to with the OM. What does he have that I don’t have? I was better looking, in shape, a great catch, a provider, and loved her. This guy was a fat slob who makes marginally more money and lives with his mom. I did not understand it.
> 
> I am here to tell you that it gets better, A LOT better.
> 
> I am so glad that I’m divorced from my cheating ex-wife and I would not have it any other way. The woman I’m with now is prettier, smarter, more independent, loyal, and is borderline obsessed with me. We laugh, we have sex all the time, we eat at amazing restaurants, its awesome.
> 
> What I did WAS repair myself and swear off relationships for more than a year. I worked out, flirted a ton, focused on work, spent time with family, made all new friends, found a new job that pays me a ton of money, and moved to a beautiful new town and far away from my ex-wife and her new boyfriend. I became someone I WANTED to be, and the result was a woman who came into my life who loved my confidence, humor, independence, etc.
> 
> One day, while on Facebook, I saw a picture of my ex’s new boyfriend and laughed my ass off. Why? Because I knew I’d won and he had lost. He gained a bi-polar trainwreck of a girlfriend and I had gained my freedom from a truly awful individual. If I ever meet the guy, I’m going to shake his hand and tell him thanks for taking her off my hands.
> 
> You losing your wife to this other guy is a blessing in disguise! Your wife will never change, it doesn’t matter who she is with. She will turn on him just like she turned on you. She’s garbage.
> Get yourself together and take charge of your life! I did, and my life is great now!


Cinema 

Thanks for your thread-bump and comments. However, I look back now, and I admit the following:
1 - We should never have stayed married beyond the birth of our first baby (2005)
2 - I should never have used physicality toward my wife when she 'pushed my buttons' 
3 - I realise now, after therapy, that my issues as a child caused me, over the years, to view my wife as more of a 'mother-figure'...Oedipus Complex 101
4 - It's never a good idea to refrain from sex from your wife for 12 months at a time :scratchhead:
5 - I'm surprised she didnt leave me years before

When she met her OM, the reason I got too 'obsessed' with him, is because he did tick many boxes of what (if you believe sexual-ranking or not) an Alpha-Male is. In short he was ex-army, now works in construction, not that good-looking but pretty solidly-built guy and as confirmed by my wife, rather well-hung. (so, even I will admit, that women will gravitate toward that kind of man). Machiavelli would have a field-day with this!

Now, as I look back, during our initial separation, she always said to me that I had to 'get over' me being convinced he was trying to steal my wife off me - it was one of those 'friendships' that moved into a sexual / romantic situation.

It was made worse for me, that I felt physically or emotionally unable to 'win' my wife back or even try to compete for her: I'd felt she was gone, moved on and therefore I wasn't going to humiliate myself by even trying. She says now, when we look back at this period, that she felt very 'discarded' and disappointed that I didn't want her back. Or would even fight for her.

It's a tricky one. We are both moving on, Divorce is going along without any major issues (except financially of course), I still see her every weekend when I pick up the kids and she isn't with her 1st OM anymore (I don't know if you read any of my other posts, but a friend of mine, after hearing what had happened between my wife and I, decided to try his luck and his ego and had a 'mini-affair' for 2 months with my wife last Summer.
He effectively wanted to see if he he could 'out-Alpha' her OM#1 )

Rather messy, but things are at least civil and cordial between us. A lot of regret and feelings of 'what might have been'...


----------



## karole

This is such a sad, sad thread. Dave, you sound like you feel you deserve what has happened to you. I hope someday you realize that you don't deserve it, get your self-esteem back and correct all the things you need to about yourself to have a fantastic relationship with someone new.


----------



## lifeistooshort

karole said:


> This is such a sad, sad thread. Dave, you sound like you feel you deserve what has happened to you. I hope someday you realize that you don't deserve it, get your self-esteem back and correct all the things you need to about yourself to have a fantastic relationship with someone new.


I don't see it like that; I see it as Dave recognizing his part in the marriage breakdown, and that will serve him well in future relationships. He's more likely to be successfull when he meets a good woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## davecarter

karole said:


> This is such a sad, sad thread. Dave, you sound like you feel you deserve what has happened to you. I hope someday you realize that you don't deserve it, get your self-esteem back and correct all the things you need to about yourself to have a fantastic relationship with someone new.


K - looking back, I do feel that I really 'dropped=the-ball' in my marriage. It's really strange, because when I first met Danielle (wife) back in 2004 - I had that feeling that some people called the 'thunderbolt' - I knew instantly, weirdly, that I was going to marry this woman. I was _infatuated_. Even to the point where I was terrified to even ask her out on a date.
I psycho-therapist / analyst / whatever might say to me now that what you felt throughout your marriage wasn't love.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have treated her so badly, would I?
I feel I'm strong enough to admit now that...it might have been a case of putting her way high up on a pedastal.
And that leads to The Madonna-Wh0re Complex: I found it so hard to make that first move, my mind probably told me she wasn't a sexual being.
Of course, her OM didn't have that problem at all...and I still have trouble with 'mind-movies'.



lifeistooshort said:


> I don't see it like that; I see it as Dave recognizing his part in the marriage breakdown, and that will serve him well in future relationships. He's more likely to be successfull when he meets a good woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


L2S - yes, kind of. I still have issues with self-esteem though. I now find it hard to approach women.
The irony here is, in the last 6 months, I've been hit on, approached by 4 women but been unable, for various reasons, to get anything at all going with them....which has left me even more anxious and them frustrated / confused...


----------



## weightlifter

DC. find a player and be a wingman for a while. Once you get it once... success begets success.

I know both a HIGH level looks player and his wingman. Wingman is the happiest guy on earth. Trust me that looks players discards would make 95% of men very very happy.

I do hope that "friend" is an ex friend.


----------



## davecarter

weightlifter said:


> DC. find a player and be a wingman for a while. Once you get it once... success begets success.
> 
> I know both a HIGH level looks player and his wingman. Wingman is the happiest guy on earth. Trust me that looks players discards would make 95% of men very very happy.
> 
> I do hope that "friend" is an ex friend.


Thanks WL...but I still suffer from similar and certain mental / physical issues when it comes to 'interacting' with a woman.
Maybe a bout of therapy would come in handy...and a need to adhere to that old cliche:_ "if you don't use it...you'll lose it"_

I'm 46 now, and all my friends, a very close circle, are now married and settled so if anything, I guess Online-Dating will be the way to go...

It's made even more frustrating as all the women in my office have said I'm a real 'looker' and in great shape for my age....it doesn't account for much when your head is screwed up though...


----------



## weightlifter

davecarter said:


> I'm 46 now, and all my friends, a very close circle, are now married and settled so if anything, I guess Online-Dating will be the way to go...
> 
> It's made even more frustrating as all the women in my office have said I'm a real 'looker' and in great shape for my age....it doesn't account for much when your head is screwed up though...


Hence the wingman suggestion. Find the UK equivalent of meetup.

You need to get into house parties. The sources of those (for you) are higher class pubs and guys stuff. IE man stuff. Check the UK equivalent of meetup.com whatever it is. One thing I heard works in the states. Take a dance class for anything but pop, rap or techno. You will be outnumbered by females heavily in swing, classic etc.

Good news is unless your female coworkers are humoring you, its all in your head.

LOL if you are endowed. Be a life model at the local college! JK

The friend who is banging your stbx is also an ex friend right?

WL


----------



## The Lonely Stoner

RWB said:


> dc,
> 
> Got the exact same line from my wife, word for word, except it was on Xmas evening. Ouch!
> 
> I was shocked, had no clue our marriage was in the dumpster. My wife was doing the "Walk Away Wife". Much later I learned the truth...
> 
> A women in a marriage with children will rarely leave her husband unless she has another man in the wings.


Heard it on my birthday. We have three boys. At the time, they were 1, 4, & 13. Hard to believe she threw me out with no other man in the picture. Harder to believe I had no clue until she told me. Makes you feel stupid. Probably why men hold on too long after their wife embarrasses their ass that first time. You want to try to fix it so bad to prove that you were not wrong about marrying her in the first place. You want to fix it to prove to your wife wife that she was wrong about cheating on you. You don't want to admit that you can be, and were wrong, about your wife. But you were. I was.


----------



## happyman64

> Get yourself together and take charge of your life! I did, and my life is great now!
> ***************


Very wise words Cinema.

You are right. Put the focus in yourself. Improve yourself.

After all, we can only control ourselves.....


----------



## treyvion

The Lonely Stoner said:


> Heard it on my birthday. We have three boys. At the time, they were 1, 4, & 13. Hard to believe she threw me out with no other man in the picture. Harder to believe I had no clue until she told me. Makes you feel stupid. Probably why men hold on too long after their wife embarrasses their ass that first time. You want to try to fix it so bad to prove that you were not wrong about marrying her in the first place. You want to fix it to prove to your wife wife that she was wrong about cheating on you. You don't want to admit that you can be, and were wrong, about your wife. But you were. I was.


In some of the situations, they wanted babies, and wanted a nice and good man to get some babies out of.

We were wrong in our selection of partners in very many cases.


----------



## davecarter

weightlifter said:


> Hence the wingman suggestion. Find the UK equivalent of meetup.
> You need to get into house parties. The sources of those (for you) are higher class pubs and guys stuff. IE man stuff. Check the UK equivalent of meetup.com whatever it is. One thing I heard works in the states. Take a dance class for anything but pop, rap or techno. You will be outnumbered by females heavily in swing, classic etc.
> 
> Good news is unless your female coworkers are humoring you, its all in your head.
> 
> LOL if you are endowed. Be a life model at the local college! JK
> 
> The friend who is banging your stbx is also an ex friend right?
> 
> WL


Yeah, I kind of need to build up my self-esteem first - been out of the game for too long I guess. Like I said, I been with 4 women but I think I rushed back into all of that....bad fail.
And, nope, they aren't/weren't humoring me - because two of them were ones I got involved with: 29 and 36.

Nope, not endowed, but as per my post on (PhillyGuy's thread), I've worked hard to change my physical self. That does do wonders for self-confidence...however, it's almost like I got to re-learn to get my d!ck working again. LOL.

He and I don't talk anymore. The oddest thing, my wife said they hooked up 4 times (3 'stay-overs', twice at his house, once at our marital home) in a 7-week period (tons of texts and phonecalls though) and he never actually f*cked her.
She says it was 'oral' stuff only.
Once he realized she wasn't into him as much as he expected (I think my wife saw him as a possible 'future-boyfriend/partner-contender' to replace me and in effect, OM#1), she did the 'lets-be-friends' thing and he got all p!ssed off about it and said some things to her she didn't want to hear - he really upset my wife.
(maybe *Mach *can offer something on what that makes him: a guy who seemingly has no problems _at all_ getting women....but then kind of gets bored with them to the point of contempt and misogyny. :scratchhead: )




The Lonely Stoner said:


> Heard it on my birthday. We have three boys. At the time, they were 1, 4, & 13. Hard to believe she threw me out with no other man in the picture. Harder to believe I had no clue until she told me. Makes you feel stupid. Probably why men hold on too long after their wife embarrasses their ass that first time. You want to try to fix it so bad to prove that you were not wrong about marrying her in the first place. You want to fix it to prove to your wife wife that she was wrong about cheating on you. You don't want to admit that you can be, and were wrong, about your wife. But you were. I was.


100%. That's exactly how it went down and exactly how I felt.
She also made no bones about using the OM as a 'bat' to beat me with, metaphorically speaking, whenever we argued or fought, post-separation.


----------



## bandit.45

So has she ever shown any true remorse or dis she feel entitled to go after those men?

And I too think you are way too hard on yourself. I think she fed you some poisonous coolaide and you went back for seconds.


----------



## davecarter

bandit.45 said:


> So has she ever shown any true remorse or dis she feel entitled to go after those men?
> 
> And I too think you are way too hard on yourself. I think she fed you some poisonous coolaide and you went back for seconds.


Not really. She felt sadness and despair that, maybe after 8 years together I didn't love her after-all and that the idea of the 'perfect wife, 2 kids and nice house' was what I felt bad about losing....rather than _her_ to the OM.

She felt the way things were going, either she would end up in the asylum or one of us would be dead.
She met the OM, he said all the right words, listened and made his play.
OM#2 knew (from talking to me), that her situation with OM#1 might be fizzling-out and maneuvered his way in, more of an ego-trip for him than anything else I think...

I do feel bad and deserve all I got - I was abusive, lazy, self-obsessed and as I said, lost sight of what I had.


----------



## treyvion

davecarter said:


> Yeah, I kind of need to build up my self-esteem first - been out of the game for too long I guess. Like I said, I been with 4 women but I think I rushed back into all of that....bad fail.
> And, nope, they aren't/weren't humoring me - because two of them were ones I got involved with: 29 and 36.
> 
> Nope, not endowed, but as per my post on (PhillyGuy's thread), I've worked hard to change my physical self. That does do wonders for self-confidence...however, it's almost like I got to re-learn to get my d!ck working again. LOL.
> 
> He and I don't talk anymore. The oddest thing, my wife said they hooked up 4 times (3 'stay-overs', twice at his house, once at our marital home) in a 7-week period (tons of texts and phonecalls though) and he never actually f*cked her.
> She says it was 'oral' stuff only.
> Once he realized she wasn't into him as much as he expected (I think my wife saw him as a possible 'future-boyfriend/partner-contender' to replace me and in effect, OM#1), she did the 'lets-be-friends' thing and he got all p!ssed off about it and said some things to her she didn't want to hear - he really upset my wife.
> (maybe *Mach *can offer something on what that makes him: a guy who seemingly has no problems _at all_ getting women....but then kind of gets bored with them to the point of contempt and misogyny. :scratchhead: )
> 
> 
> 100%. That's exactly how it went down and exactly how I felt.
> She also made no bones about using the OM as a 'bat' to beat me with, metaphorically speaking, whenever we argued or fought, post-separation.


Somebody admitted it. The entire situation is an erosion of your self respect and masculinity.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

davecarter said:


> It was made worse for me, that I felt physically or emotionally unable to 'win' my wife back or even try to compete for her: I'd felt she was gone, moved on and therefore I wasn't going to humiliate myself by even trying.


You should never try to compete with an OM, he could be the scum of the Earth and the WS would still choose them over a BS, its the nature of an A. 

Even trying makes you look pathetic (after all, you are fighting for someone that cheated on you, how desperate would that make you look to think that's what you deserve?). 

The OM is never better, how can a man that hooks up with a married woman better than anyone?



> She says now, when we look back at this period, that she felt very 'discarded' and disappointed that I didn't want her back. Or would even fight for her.


Blameshifting, it would not have made a difference. She didn't feel that way at all, she just says that to save face.




> Rather messy, but things are at least civil and cordial between us. A lot of regret and feelings of 'what might have been'...


Later you'll regret not divorcing her the minute you found out about the A. Nobody ever says they regret divorcing their cheating spouse, but many have regretted giving them a second chance.


----------



## warlock07

> She says now, when we look back at this period, that she felt very 'discarded' and disappointed that I didn't want her back. Or would even fight for her.


Sounds self serving more than anything


----------



## LongWalk

She does not talk of R. What does she see in her future?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

Dave, given what you have told us, if you continued working on yourself and your ex suddenly (re) liked what she was seeing would you reconcile do you think?


----------



## Machiavelli

davecarter said:


> When she met her OM, the reason I got too 'obsessed' with him, is because he did tick many boxes of what (if you believe sexual-ranking or not) an Alpha-Male is. In short he was ex-army, now works in construction, not that good-looking but pretty solidly-built guy and as confirmed by my wife, rather well-hung. (so, even I will admit, that women will gravitate toward that kind of man). Machiavelli would have a field-day with this!
> 
> Now, as I look back, during our initial separation, she always said to me that I had to 'get over' me being convinced he was trying to steal my wife off me - it was one of those 'friendships' that moved into a sexual / romantic situation.
> 
> It was made worse for me, that I felt physically or emotionally unable to 'win' my wife back or even try to compete for her: *I'd felt she was gone, moved on and therefore I wasn't going to humiliate myself by even trying. She says now, when we look back at this period, that she felt very 'discarded' and disappointed that I didn't want her back. Or would even fight for her.*


Of course, if you had "fought" (literally or figuratively) for her she would have come back you (not likely). What a boost to her ego that would have been. You just deflated her by not playing your assigned role. Plus, you deprived her of the satisfaction of turning up her nose at your futile efforts. The divorce is all your fault.


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## davecarter

treyvion said:


> The entire situation is an erosion of your self respect and masculinity.


Too right. That's why since June 2013, I'm way, way into the rebuilding and rehabilitating phase.



ArmyofJuan said:


> You should never try to compete with an OM, he could be the scum of the Earth and the WS would still choose them over a BS, its the nature of an A.
> Even trying makes you look pathetic (after all, you are fighting for someone that cheated on you, how desperate would that make you look to think that's what you deserve?)
> The OM is never better, how can a man that hooks up with a married woman better than anyone?


But isn't that what every betrayed man and woman do when they first find out their other-half is seeing someone else? They want to know about that OM/OW, what they have that was so special to their wife/husband and what they need to do to beat that OM/OW.
But yeah, I knew that was futile.
So, I concentrated on myself.



WyshIknew said:


> Dave, given what you have told us, if you continued working on yourself and your ex suddenly (re) liked what she was seeing would you reconcile do you think?


No. Because I know the problems were far deep-rooted back from 2004-2005 when we first met. We both thought we had found out 'soul-mates' (cliche, but I can't think of anything else)...even though we really pushed each other's buttons almost immediately. Almost like a 'game' of who could wind the other up the worst...which just led to, unfortunately., physical violence (me to her and vice-versa)

As things are, and as I explained to Machiavelli in another thread - I'm 'reinventing' myself along with regular soul-searching sessions: I'm 200lb, body-fat dropping all the time - I hit weights 4-5x a week, I eat well, only drink alcohol at weekends, I'm in the best shape since my early 30s, I can still attract women much younger than myself (this is more to do with my 'attitude' than anything else), I have my own apartment, I got myself a BMW M3 (dayum, those things _shift_)

And here's the kicker: when the divorce/financials are finally through re: our house, my wife will have to pay ME off, not vice-versa.

Happy days.


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## weightlifter

davecarter said:


> And here's the kicker: when the divorce/financials are finally through re: our house, my wife will have to pay ME off, not vice-versa.
> 
> Happy days.


If I could like that 10000 times I would! I often read in the UK men end up paupers while the ex lives in style. OK it happens in the US but worse there.


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## weightlifter

Machiavelli said:


> Of course, if you had "fought" (literally or figuratively) for her she would have come back you (not likely). What a boost to her ego that would have been. You just deflated her by not playing your assigned role. Plus, you deprived her of the satisfaction of turning up her nose at your futile efforts. The divorce is all your fault.


I am convinced many women rewrite history in everything.

"What I meant when I said X is this"
A week later at MC, "It meant that"
Before bed semi accusing me, "It meant this other thing and by the way..."

I also think mine actually believes whatever the new reason is.


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## davecarter

weightlifter said:


> If I could like that 10000 times I would! I often read in the UK men end up paupers while the ex lives in style. OK it happens in the US but worse there.


Furthermore to the 'my-wife-has-to-pay-me-to-move-out' situation, I was devious / sneaky / paranoid enough back in the early days of my marriage and basically shifted a stack of savings form my personal bank account to my brother's.


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## The Lonely Stoner

weightlifter said:


> I am convinced many women rewrite history in everything.
> 
> "What I meant when I said X is this"
> A week later at MC, "It meant that"
> Before bed semi accusing me, "It meant this other thing and by the way..."
> 
> I also think mine actually believes whatever the new reason is.


Solid. My wife is good at this tactic. Keeps changing to make her self be "right". At some point though, the running must stop and she will have to ''turn and face". That will be quite an interesting day.


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## The Lonely Stoner

Most women follow predictable patterns based on their attributes and personality; coupled with their upbringing & environment. It is largely up to the man to figure out his particular woman and manipulate (not in criminal manner) the way you deal with her property. You have to pre-diagnose her wishes-hopes-dreams and beat her there. You have to maintain strict awareness of her "fairy-tale". It must be near to your heart. It sure as hell is near to her's. As long as she is under your "spell" things are generally fine. If/when the spell ever wears off........ Have fun filling in your own personal blanks.


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## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Of course, if you had "fought" (literally or figuratively) for her she would have come back you (not likely). What a boost to her ego that would have been. You just deflated her by not playing your assigned role. Plus, you deprived her of the satisfaction of turning up her nose at your futile efforts. The divorce is all your fault.


Big Mach nailed it. You dissapointed her because you didn't flail and struggle to fight for her, you were not playing your role.

I'd be happy to get my life back.


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## davecarter

treyvion said:


> 1 - Big Mach nailed it. You disappointed her because you didn't flail and struggle to fight for her, you were not playing your role.
> 
> 2 - I'd be happy to get my life back.


Yep, that's pretty much correct - on both counts.
One of her favorite comments to wind me up when I wouldn't be pro-active was _"you need to 'Man-up' and grow a pair_".
So, eventually, I did.

The ironic thing is, the former 'friend' I call OM#2 - his very short 'involvement' with my wife has pretty much messed-up whatever 'relationship' she _thought_ she had with OM#1: she was obviously looking around to get her head turned yet again after 7 months with OM#1 and she's totally f*cuked herself as a result.


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## LongWalk

Your stbx was quiet attractive, wasn't she. Are her looks starting to go? Does having her life tossed into a state of chaos disturb her?


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## davecarter

LongWalk said:


> Your stbx was quiet attractive, wasn't she. Are her looks starting to go? Does having her life tossed into a state of chaos disturb her?


Well, to be fair, every guy's woman is attractive!
She's 40 now. So, as on-the-slide as she maybe, she still looks good when she scrubs-up well and goes out: 5'7", 125lb or so, no t!ts, nice legs/body, shoulder-length straight blonde, blue eyes, great smile (thin lips)...yeah she's good for her age, I'll admit.

As is her character toward me (and me back), she throw a few verbal-jabs at me during her time with the OM#1 last year when she kindly informed me that his buddies/mates said to him _"you've got a real catch with this one"_.
The fact that she 'traded-down' with him (looks-wise, anyway), that was quite humiliating, to be honest.

I don't know is she is in 'chaos' as such, but the situation with OM#2 f*cked with her a bit because I think she was really into him...for a short time, anyway and he was a definite 'trade-up'.


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## bandit.45

Meh.

Cut your losses and move on. She's not worth ruminating over. You picked a lemon. It happens. Don't wrap your self esteem around it. You've gained alot of wisdom from this. Take that into your next relationship and do better next time.


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