# W's reaction to 180 or MMLS strategy



## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

UPDATE found proof of affair today. see last page. 


W and I are 47, married 12 yrs with two great children 10 and 11. About 11 months ago W said she was not sure we had a future. 2-3 weeks later our limited sex life (2x a month) ended, but we still share the same bed. 

After a few months I asked if she wanted me to move out. She said no. I asked if she wanted me to find another woman. She said "go ahead." I said I will not be in a sexless marriage, but indicated I would try to get ours back on track. I insisted we see a MC, and we did in Sept. MC thought it better to meet with her alone, and she had at least 2 more MC meeting without me.

I was a "nice guy" and far too beta. Only learned about Athol Kay's MMSL blog and book 4 months ago. Since then I've been been working a 180 and the MAP. Began lifting, lost about 10 lbs, gained muscle (still need to lose 15 more lbs). Reduced beta and turned up the alpha. At times I think I have seen some small improvements in her dealings with me. I broke the ice once night last month, but that night of sex was not a cure all and at times she can still be very cold, unfriendly, and almost hostile (fitness test ???). And this coldness can last a week or two at a time. I tend to ignore or laugh at it, it seems to thaw here and there, but not constantly. 

I do not think there is or has been a PA or EA, but I am not 100% certain. I will move on if this marriage is unfixable. 

*Main Qestions:* Is her coldness meaningless? A sh** test? A reaction to the destabilization of the situation? Is it a sign of an EA/PA? 

Has anyone else experienced such a reaction or response to a 180?

Can others who have used the 180 or MAP post about their results. 

Thanks in advance for any help. Also thanks for posting all the great info here.


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

*The uncertainty, the pain, the sadness you are feeling at the whole situation, your wife shares it with you. Remember that.*

Her cold attitude is likely an explosion of resentment, that slowly built up because of your previous Beta attitude. I really doub this is something you can fix. The image of you, that she holds in her mind is going to be one of weakness, and this isnt something you can change with words.

I suggest starting frrom scratch. Dont try and fix the marriage, but look at it with new eyes and see the new opportunities that await for you.

Manning-up is so easily misrepresented by men who think saying "Up the Alpha and lift weights" is enough. Being truly Alpha, being a real man is all in your head. You need to build confidence in self, and let go of control.

Robby G. author of NMMNG, suggests you need to be willing to lose your wife. The idea being that a real man will survive, and know he will survive without his wife. Yeah, it would suck, but life will keep moving forward... at least for a real man.

Start by having a fun attitude. Your a new person, your marriage is brand new (starting from scratch, remember), and the world is full of fantastic opportunities. But you have to look for them, and then you have to get them. Nothing worth having in life comes easy.

Find some new hobbies. Enthusiastically ask your wife if she'd like to tag along. If she doesnt want to go, smile, wave, hug n' kiss, whatever it is you do, just do it with a sincere smile and walk out the door. Cuz real men can have fun by themselves (and not like that, perv). If she's being a B****, throw up your B**** shield and ignore it, or maybe even start negging her. If she doesnt want to go with you, then thats fine.



MAP said:


> After a few months I asked if she wanted me to move out. She said no. I asked if she wanted me to find another woman. She said "go ahead."



This leads me to believe that on some level, she feels like your piece of meat, that you dont truly connect with her emotionally. You may feel differently, but there are two people that matter in this.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MAP said:


> Thanks in advance for any help. Also thanks for posting all the great info here.


She's had all the power for a while. She's got used to that - once you take it back, she isn't going to like it. She might get used to it and adjust, seeing the new reality is better, but until she works that out, she is probably going to fight all the way...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Will give you my insight, with the caveat that it is colored by my personal experience.

There distinctly came a point when I was working on myself, and still hopeful for a reconciliation, that I asked myself a very simple question:
"Why wouldn't she want to be engaged in repairing our marriage, given what's on the line?"

In my experience and having followed many, many, other similar experiences, there are only 2 core reasons, why your spouse would choose to remain 'disengaged'.

1. She fundamentally no longer trusts or respects you.

2. She is emotionally invested in another man.

It can also be both. This was my case.

You're doing the right things, regardless of outcome.

And for the record, I agree with Glover that your best shot at saving your marriage comes into the picture the moment you are prepared to let it go.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Did she give any reasons at all for her disinterest in the marriage?


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> There distinctly came a point when I was working on myself, and still hopeful for a reconciliation, that I asked myself a very simple question:
> "Why wouldn't she want to be engaged in repairing our marriage, given what's on the line?"
> 
> In my experience and having followed many, many, other similar experiences, there are only 2 core reasons, why your spouse would choose to remain 'disengaged'.
> ...


Deejo, Sawney Beane, and SockPuppet,

Thanks for your replies.

I think one or both of those two core reasons could be at issue with the W. I agree that I must be prepared to let the marriage end, and I thankfully have past that point. (What I recently came to realize is the W essentially ended it about 10 months ago) Still I will continue the MAP/180 to its ultimate end: an improved me in a mutually fulfilling relationship with the W or the next woman.

The more I think of it, the more I realize some of her more inconsistent behavior began about a month or two aft I started the MAP and began to man up. This seems to fit with Sawney Beane's view.

I should have mentioned that I had some alpha before the marriage, but foolishly relaxed it after. It took Athol's book to clearly explain the connection this had to the decline in intimacy and sex life going from from 3/wk then to 2/wk, a couple of years later to 1/wk then to 2/month.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are you doing a 180 like they one in my signature block? Why would you think this would make her want to be more sexual with you?


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Atholk said:


> Did she give any reasons at all for her disinterest in the marriage?


Athol, 

Thanks for your reply and more importantly for crystallizing so much crucial information in your book! 

W is highly accomplished professional, and she's been the primary bread winner during the marriage. I went through a lay off. Since Feb. I've been working in a new field, but not earning much yet.

I mistakenly let her be the leader/captain in most things (except disciplining the kids). She is poor at communications, and for years I allowed her to on occasion speak to me disrespectfully (I did not know these were sh** tests. I failed many). About 10 months ago she said she did not know if she wanted to stay married. She thought when the kids get older and are out of the house, there would be little keeping us together. She also admitted resentment about having the stress of being the primary bread winner. I had just started working and again and I thought advancing new career and earning more would solve most/all of the problem, but since reading your book realized that alone was not enough. (During time of lay off, I took courses and training to get me into my new career--I was not just sitting around).

I do not think she realized or could explain the real reason for her disinterest: my lack of alpha and deceased sex rank caused a loss of her attraction in me. 

While a doubt a PA, or even a EA, is the cause, I can not rule it out. I have not discovered any proof, but I have not done a lot of investigation for either. I also doubt the sex we had last month would have occurred if there was still an PA or EA in play. I think she would have instead not let me touch her as she did for months before that.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Are you doing a 180 like they one in my signature block? Why would you think this would make her want to be more sexual with you?


I think Athol's MAP which is similar to the 180, can lead to an increase in W's attraction for me which would cause her to be more sexual with me. But I know it may not work out with her, in which case, my self-improvements will help in my next relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAP said:


> I think Athol's MAP which is similar to the 180, can lead to an increase in W's attraction for me which would cause her to be more sexual with me. But I know it may not work out with her, in which case, my self-improvements will help in my next relationship.


I have not seen the MAP. So I'm only familiar with the 180. There are many kinds of 180s.. but the one spoken about on this site most often in the one linked in my signature block. The purpose of this 180 is not to make a spouse want you more. It's to protect the betrayed spouse while the cheater is not willing to workin the marriage. If you read the Marraige Builder material.. it's like Plan B. It's a dangerous last step that usually ends in divorce. 

That's why I'm wondering why you think ignoring your spouse, not talking to her, etc is going to get you anything more in bed.

Do you have a link to this MAP thind?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> That's why I'm wondering why you think ignoring your spouse, not talking to her, etc is going to get you anything more in bed.


Quite honestly when my wife has gotten to a point where I feel she`s taking me for granted (doesn`t happpen often) a subtle version of the 180 perks her interest in me up.

Granted I haven`t actually read the 180 in quite a while (I will as soon as I post this)but it doesn`t have to be cold.
It can be used simply to boost confidence and to practice self dependence in areas you`d usually include your wife.

These actions often wake a spouse up a bit.



> Do you have a link to this MAP thind?


Married Man Sex Life: The MAP


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Quite honestly when my wife has gotten to a point where I feel she`s taking me for granted (doesn`t happpen often) a subtle version of the 180 perks her interest in me up.
> 
> Granted I haven`t actually read the 180 in quite a while (I will as soon as I post this)but it doesn`t have to be cold.
> It can be used simply to boost confidence and to practice self dependence in areas you`d usually include your wife.
> ...


The 180 as presented by Divorce Buster is to behave in a manner 180 degrees different than your normal behavior. So for example is a person is usually distant, that person will be more outgoing and talkative with their spouse.

The idea is to act differently than you usually do.

In your case, the 'subtle' version of the 180/Plan-B is probably 180 from your normal way of being... so it gets her attention.

But if a person implements the 180/Plan-B in my signature block that's a totally different thing. The idea of that 180 is to end all or as much communication with the WS until the WS agrees to leave the OW/OM and return to the marriage... or until the BS loses all their love for the WS and is ready to file for divorce.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The 180 as presented by Divorce Buster is to behave in a manner 180 degrees different than your normal behavior. So for example is a person is usually distant, that person will be more outgoing and talkative with their spouse.
> 
> The idea is to act differently than you usually do.
> 
> ...


Athol's MAP is also to prepare if divorce is the end result but unlike the 180 on TAM it really is designed to make the person into a better man or woman thereby hopefully to spark the dying embers of a marriage and rekindle the flame of attraction and passion. I find it much more pro marriage than the 180 and a lot more organized and easy to follow.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Athol's MAP is also to prepare if divorce is the end result but unlike the 180 on TAM it really is designed to make the person into a better man or woman thereby hopefully to spark the dying embers of a marriage and rekindle the flame of attraction and passion. I find it much more pro marriage than the 180 and a lot more organized and easy to follow.


What? I have to buy the book to find out what the MAP is?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> What? I have to buy the book to find out what the MAP is?


Elegirl,I posted a link to the Map above.

Married Man Sex Life: The MAP


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Atholk said:


> Did she give any reasons at all for her disinterest in the marriage?


Athol and others, with the additional infor I added above, can you share any more thoughts or wisdom?

My original questions were: Is her coldness meaningless? A sh** test? A reaction to the destabilization of the situation?

Is it a sign of an EA/PA?

Has anyone else experienced such a reaction or response to a 180?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I found the time my wife got super resentful of my efforts to improve the marriage cooincided quite nicely with the start of her EA. I can't tell you for sure that's what's happening in your case (you haven't provided any details), it would certainly be a possibility. In your situation I would be snooping like a CIA agent.

I can tell you that there's a small chance in hell at getting your wife to turn around while she's still involved in an EA or PA. So even if you would be willing to reconcile after that, stopping the affair is step #1. A wayward spouse is not rational, there's specific things you need to do to make the affair extremely uncomfortable. But step #1 is getting proof, which you need to start getting.

Also, don't make the mistake of giving up your source or providing specifics. If you do find evidence, don't let her know what you have or where you got it because you'll never be able to use that source again. If you want to reconcile, you can use the evidence to gauge your partner's truthfulness. If you want to divorce, you can use it as evidence in your court case (depending on your state, some states cheating doesn't matter).

Like others have said, the best thing you can do is improve yourself, for yourself. Treat your wife respectfully and lovingly, but respect yourself first. No matter what happens, you'll end up a winner.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

COguy said:


> I found the time my wife got super resentful of my efforts to improve the marriage cooincided quite nicely with the start of her EA. I can't tell you for sure that's what's happening in your case (you haven't provided any details), it would certainly be a possibility. In your situation I would be snooping like a CIA agent.
> 
> I can tell you that there's a small chance in hell at getting your wife to turn around while she's still involved in an EA or PA. So even if you would be willing to reconcile after that, stopping the affair is step #1. A wayward spouse is not rational, there's specific things you need to do to make the affair extremely uncomfortable. But step #1 is getting proof, which you need to start getting.
> 
> ...


Update: Embarrassed to admit this, she tells me she is going away to a city for New Years weekend with a girlfriend and her gf's friends. I'll be at home with our two kids. I gave no reaction when she told me. *Is there a better 180/MAP way to handle this? * Would saying no be the alpha way to handle this? But, I cannot physically stop her. 

There is also a lot of txting going on, but she keeps the phone locked with a password and I have not yet learned it.

And thanks COguy for your reply and insight. You and the others seem to be right, EA or PA. I just lack the hard proof at this point, but I am seeking more intel. 

Only other solid fact, W has been to the MC another 5 times since our first joint meeting with the MC. I am a little surprised by this.

*Would arranging another joint meeting with the MC be a mistake?*

Would just calling the MC be a mistake?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Well you know she`s up to something.
If not an affair most definitely the beginnings of one or the desire to be in a position for one.

You cannot agree to her going on the trip, far too weak man.

Tell her she stays home, gives you her cell phone and password or you file divorce papers.

See what she does.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Well you know she`s up to something.
> If not an affair most definitely the beginnings of one or the desire to be in a position for one.
> 
> You cannot agree to her going on the trip, far too weak man.
> ...


DUDE! Man up. File for divorce tomorrow. Grow a pair. Your best situation is to show her her actions have consequences. If she is remorseful and open, you can reconcile. If not, you divorce and likely get spousal support. Doing nothing shows her you are a worthless worm. 
If you want to feel better about your story, read mine. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26991-how-would-you-interpret-message.html


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

KanDo said:


> DUDE! Man up. File for divorce tomorrow. Grow a pair. *Your best situation is to show her her actions have consequences.* If she is remorseful and open, you can reconcile. If not, you divorce and likely get spousal support. Doing nothing shows her you are a worthless worm.
> If you wnat to feel better about your story, read mine. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26991-how-would-you-interpret-message.html


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

MAP said:


> Update: Embarrassed to admit this, she tells me she is going away to a city for New Years weekend with a girlfriend and her gf's friends. I'll be at home with our two kids. I gave no reaction when she told me. *Is there a better 180/MAP way to handle this? * Would saying no be the alpha way to handle this? But, I cannot physically stop her.
> 
> There is also a lot of txting going on, but she keeps the phone locked with a password and I have not yet learned it.


The MAP is designed to work when the wife isn't having an affair, and I advise the 180 approach when she is having one. There are a fair amount of overlap though.

In anycase, your wife is very likely going to this other city to turn whatever it is into a PA.

I agree with Tacoma. She should hand you the phone and let you read it, not go on the trip, or you file for divorce. That's about it.

Sorry :-(


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MAP said:


> Update: Embarrassed to admit this, she tells me she is going away to a city for New Years weekend with a girlfriend and her gf's friends. I'll be at home with our two kids. I gave no reaction when she told me. *Is there a better 180/MAP way to handle this? * Would saying no be the alpha way to handle this? But, I cannot physically stop her.
> 
> There is also a lot of txting going on, but she keeps the phone locked with a password and I have not yet learned it.
> 
> ...


I would not tell you what to do or what not to do under most circumstances, but don't appease her at home with the kids while she goes out New Years Eve.

She has all the red flags for being in an affair. Many of the red flags my wife had. New Year's and Birthday's are the two most common days for wives to cheat on their husbands. I guarantee something happens while she is out, don't allow that.

I'd offer up that either she lets you go with her (you can even offer to be the DD for her and her friends), or she doesn't go at all. If she still wants to go, tell her not to come back. It was hard for me to see until my wife had the affair (it was after a drunken time with her girlfriends at the bars on Halloween, I stayed home to watch the kids), but there's no good reason a married woman should be out getting drunk at bars without her man there. There's so much skeezing going on it's just not ever a good idea, even if there wasn't any underlying marital problems.

Dinner with girl friends is one thing, but staying out all hours of the night getting wasted with other drunk and horny guys....... recipe for disaster.

Just to repeat, one drunk night out with the girls is what took my wife from an EA to a PA. I wish I could take that night back, we even had a conversation about her not going because I didn't feel right about it, but I didn't want to come off as an ******* so I let her go. I wish I had my nuts back then, I hope you'll find yours before it's too late.

Good luck bro..........I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I am really sorry to hear that you are going through this. Others have given good advice. About the only thing I have to add is this: "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results." So what do you have to lose? There is no marriage now.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Thank you all for the support and excellent advice. I really appreciate the hard-learned and very personal lessons people have shared on this forum. 

There is no EA or PA, but she just left for the trip, and we are headed for divorce. 

Pity, the best and most open conversation we’ve had in years came out of me confronting her. I was willing to speak to her because I am satisfied that there is not an EA or PA (this explains why she allowed us to have sex last month). I learned some of her coldness since then was her stress that I would pursue sex with her again (which of course I had done). 

She is not happy about the demise of our marriage, admitted she is poor at communicating, and said the MC has been trying to help her improve her communication skills and decide what to do. I also realized she hates being vulnerable. Her parents had a dysfunctional relationship and have been divorced for about 18 years. She said she does not want to turn out like them, which is very bitter with each other. 

While we met the MC the first time in Sept together, the MC now tells me she is now just W’s therapist, a fact W was supposed to inform me of. So this means W and I have not really tried any marriage counseling. And we have not done well with just communication with each other because I have not previously been able to get her talking. 

With no EA or PA in play, I am certain we could have saved the marriage and had a great life together, but her actions show she does not want to try. I told her am going to sleep in another room and we need to plan on how to inform the kids. She agreed. I also said while I am asking for the divorce, it is not my first choice and ultimately I want the kids to know I did not want to end the marriage. She knows I would like her to commit to a meaningful MC which she said she would think about and discuss with her therapist and with her friend this weekend.  

Strangely she said she had not thought about whether she wants me to start seeing other people.

Even with no EA or PA, I still said I wanted to get a divorce to exercise some control, and also as a wake-up call for her. I do not think this was the wrong approach, but I am not certain.

She does not drink so I highly doubt this weekend will result in a drunken hook up.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

How have you verified there is no affair?

Why are you satisfied there is no affair?

You repeated it 4 times as if you are trying to convince yourself?

Why is her phone locked?
Who is she texting?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

There is no EA or PA,

Well, she's gonna get laid like no other this weekend. She's free now, you're divorcing and it's game on time for her on New Year's while the poory, sappy, STBXH sits at home crying about his marriage watching the kids.

Keep posting in every post that there is no EA or PA, because you already know deep down that this weekend will change that if there wasn't one before.

I think you've probably said that line thousands of times to help you deal with the problem you already know about.

Time to start moving on from her. BTW, if she comes home (after sleeping with anything that moves over this weekend) and asks to work on the marriage because she's finally seen that she only wants you. Don't do it, divorce her and then let her work on winning you back. Why do you have to do all the hard work, the groveling, begging to get her back.

Again, there is no EA or PA, this weekend will change that, I guarantee it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MAP said:


> Thank you all for the support and excellent advice. I really appreciate the hard-learned and very personal lessons people have shared on this forum.
> 
> There is no EA or PA, but she just left for the trip, and we are headed for divorce.
> 
> ...


How are you sure there's no EA or PA? You better have snooped your ass off before coming to that conclusion. A cheater will lie their a** off about it, it's actually part of the affair. Google "gaslighting".

Whatever conclusion you came to, you can be 100% certain that you just gave your wife the keys to go sleep around this weekend. If you're divorcing as a "wake up call", you're going to be dealing with her sleeping with someone else if she decides to reconcile later.

If you have any inkling that you want to stay married....ANY inkling, spend whatever money it costs to hire a PI for the night. She's going to cheat on you, you'll want to know.

Take it from the team that has been there done that. Up until her house of cards fell down, I was 100% adamant my wife would never have sex with another person, she was not capable of it in my opinion. If my wife could have a one night stand, yours can too. That PI will be either your barometer for her truth telling (do not tell her any evidence that is gained, let her tell you the truth and your evidence backs it up), or the best spent money on peace of mind should you choose to get back together. It can also act as good evidence in court should you finalize the divorce (depending on your state of course).

Don't ignore the people that have been there.....

P.S. Sorry again you are going through this BS. I know it is a horrible feeling that your wife doesn't want to work on your marriage.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

COguy said:


> How are you sure there's no EA or PA? You better have snooped your ass off before coming to that conclusion. A cheater will lie their a** off about it, it's actually part of the affair. Google "gaslighting".
> 
> Whatever conclusion you came to, you can be 100% certain that you just gave your wife the keys to go sleep around this weekend. If you're divorcing as a "wake up call", you're going to be dealing with her sleeping with someone else if she decides to reconcile later.
> 
> ...


CO guy, 

Thank you for your reply, and I am trying to follow, not ignore, the advice of those who have been through this before me. 

Also I am not kidding myself, *I know she's capable of it.* I know she would lie about it and have done much snooping and other things I will not detail to check on it.

While she could do it this weekend and I did not want to give her the keys, I was not able to prevent her from going. Sound advice on the PI, but I am not going to be able to do that (I do not even know where she is staying).

I know she will move on to another man soon if not this weekend, *but, please indulge me a little bit and assume I am right about there being no EA or PA yet and that she does not cheat this weekend (and that Santa and the Easter Bunny are real).* While I would have liked it to work out, I know she's not the only one. So aside from the PI, I do not think there is anything else I can do, but move out of the bedroom, start the divorce, and start dating new women?

It does suck to be the only one wanting to work on the marriage, but am at a loss as to what I can do other than move on. I know easier said then done, and I am hurt, angry, sad, and all the rest about this, but what can I do?


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

tacoma said:


> How have you verified there is no affair?
> 
> Why are you satisfied there is no affair?
> 
> ...


Tacoma, thanks for continuing to advise me. 

She is texting work, family, friends, our daughter. I have seen some, but not all. I have snooped extensively, and done other things I will not detail. Her phone is locked because of her work and legal requirement for confidentiality, and she has an iphone loaded with info. and other things. It also has effective easy to use security.
I am not trying to convince myself. As I explained above I know she is capable, essentially a matter of time. 

I repeated it in my post to explain why I continued to speak with her with her and discuss MC.

I also hope for advice that assumes that EA/PA is not the issue.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

MAP said:


> While we met the MC the first time in Sept together, the MC now tells me she is now just W’s therapist, a fact W was supposed to inform me of. So this means W and I have not really tried any marriage counseling.


The therapist was definitely meant to tell you if she was just your wife's therapist and not yours.

It means the therapist has allowed themselves to be used as a tool to blindside you.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Atholk said:


> The therapist was definitely meant to tell you if she was just your wife's therapist and not yours.
> 
> It means the therapist has allowed themselves to be used as a tool to blindside you.


I originally chose the MC and we first saw her as a couple. So yes, I was blindsided two days ago when the MC told me she was now just W's therapist and could not speak or meet with me. 

Athol assuming for a moment I am right about the no EA/PA would you please offer any other suggestions?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I would immediately talk to a lawyer. Tell them about the therapist doing the bait and switch routine on you.

Your wife has been planning her exit for sometime now. It would be utterly bizarre if she had no one in mind.

Don't leave the house. If she wants out of the marriage, she should be the one to leave.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

May I tip toe in here for a moment? 
It is often talked about around here that when a woman is not interested in her husband, it must be because another man is in the picture. I disagree. Oftentimes us women are just fed up. Resentment, anger, etc. 
If she is "losing" interest then there is hope and Althol's book and blog works wonders! If she has "lost" interest, then she is done. She has made up her mind and is planning her exit, be it tomorrow or when the children are grown.
I don't say this to deflate you. I say this so you can gauge where she is at. If you cannot find that out, anything you do is futile.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

MAP - if she does come back and you can't get her to leave the home - YOU DON'T LEAVE THE MARITAL BEDROOM - She does.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Might I tip toe in here for a moment?
> It is often talked about around here that when a woman is not interested in her husband, it must be because another man is in the picture. I disagree. Oftentimes us women are just fed up.
> If she is "losing" interest then there is hope and Althol's book and blog works wonders! If she has "lost" interest, then she is done. She has made up her mind and is planning her exit, be it tomorrow or until the children are grown.
> I don't say this to deflate you. I say this so you can gauge where she is at. If you cannot find that out, anything you do is futile.


Thanks for anther point of view. I think you are right, and it seems she is at the "lost" stage, not the "losing" interest stage. If I assume this if the case, would you suggest just moving on (separate bedrooms until divorce is final).


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> MAP - if she does come back and you can't get her to leave the home - YOU DON'T LEAVE THE MARITAL BEDROOM - She does.


 Can a husband really do this?

That would seem like open warfare that the kids would notice.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Atholk said:


> I would immediately talk to a lawyer. Tell them about the therapist doing the bait and switch routine on you.
> What would that get me.
> Your wife has been planning her exit for sometime now.You seem to be right about this. It would be utterly bizarre if she had no one in mind.Maybe she does, I just do not know
> 
> Don't leave the house.I will lot leave the house, but should I push her into the other bedroom or should I move to it. If she wants out of the marriage, she should be the one to leave.


Can the husband ever win the on that point? I do not want to be any more of a fool, but I do not want to put the kids through open hostility.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

MAP said:


> Thanks for anther point of view. I think you are right, and it seems she is at the "lost" stage, not the "losing" interest stage. If I assume this if the case, would you suggest just moving on (separate bedrooms until divorce is final).


No!! You have to find out where she stands. Don't assume anything. If you simply give up and think she is done, she WILL be done. 
What would bring me back? My husband if he said in no uncertain terms and looked me dead in the eyes "I want us to get back to where we used to be. Do you remember how in love we were? Do you remember how much we wanted to be with each other? Do you remember the nights of passionate sex? Do you remember how we used to laugh at each others jokes? I do and I will fight to get this back. Are you willing to fight with me, I am willing to fight for you?". 
If she rolls her eyes or gives you some nasty look, you have your answer....she's "lost". If she looks at you with a measure of interest, she is "losing" and not gone.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No!! You have to find out where she stands. Don't assume anything. If you simply give up and think she is done, she WILL be done.
> What would bring me back? My husband if he said in no uncertain terms and looked me dead in the eyes "I want us to get back to where we used to be. Do you remember how in love we were? Do you remember how much we wanted to be with each other? Do you remember the nights of passionate sex? Do you remember how we used to laugh at each others jokes? I do and I will fight to get this back. Are you willing to fight with me, I am willing to fight for you?".
> If she rolls her eyes or gives you some nasty look, you have your answer....she's "lost". If she looks at you with a measure of interest, she is "losing" and not gone.


Thanks TBE, that test makes sense. But should I be concerned that it would be a sign of weakness, desperation, and a turnoff.

Also please tell me what would be next if she is just at the "losing" it stage, should I continue the MAP and push for MC? Just do the 180? Other?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Actually this is great advice. Try it. Say it with confidence. Don't frame it as a question. Make it a statement. If she blows you off, shrug walk away and go into full blown 180 mode. Don't argue or whine just do it. And don't leave the bedroom. Show her you can be in the same room and be indifferent to her. 

If you or she discuss divorce be completely matter of fact and very short on words.




TE=MAP;532849]Thanks TBE, that test makes sense. But should I be concerned that it would be a sign of weakness, desperation, and a turnoff.

Also please tell me what would be next if she is just at the "losing" it stage, should I continue the MAP and push for MC? Just do the 180? Other?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

MAP said:


> Can a husband really do this?
> 
> That would seem like open warfare that the kids would notice.


MAP: Its open warfare no matter how you look at it. Even if you stayed together for the sake of the kids, they know when mom and dad aren't getting along. 

Its difficult for them. 

What you need to do is be clear with the kids as to the changes happening in the house and how it won't affect your (or hers) love for them, but the changes are necessary to reflect the reality that moms and dads sometimes have to separate.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MAP said:


> Can a husband really do this?
> 
> That would seem like open warfare that the kids would notice.


You mean you haven’t got angry yet? That you’ve been so patient and tolerant all this time? No wonder your wife is walking all over you. Are you really that dispassionate, composed, unemotional, detached?

You are sounding detached to me. Indicated by you “know she’s not the only one”. Are you really letting her go without a fight? That could be the very reason she’s walking away from you. But if you are not the type of person that fights, gets angry, shows their passion and emotions then I guess this is the way you will do things. I reckon that’s almost guaranteed to lose her, basically because she thinks you don’t “want her enough”, that you are almost indifferent to her.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

AFEH said:


> You mean you haven’t got angry yet? That you’ve been so patient and tolerant all this time? No wonder your wife is walking all over you. You could be right, I just don't know. Are you really that dispassionate, composed, unemotional, detached?
> 
> You are sounding detached to me. Indicated by you “know she’s not the only one”. Are you really letting her go without a fight? That could be the very reason she’s walking away from you. But if you are not the type of person that fights, gets angry, shows their passion and emotions then I guess this is the way you will do things. I reckon that’s almost guaranteed to lose her, basically because she thinks you don’t “want her enough”, that you are almost indifferent to her.


I've gotten angry, but I thought the 180 and MMSL strategy did not include anger??? I thought I am supposed to be cool and control. But, I have thought she might respond to some anger and it might be might be a good alpha display. (I had been thinking some of my manning up and physical improvements had been helping, I still maybe right about this). And I am very mad that we have two kids and she is giving up without any fight, and treating me like sh*t in the process. 

Is getting mad and showing anger helpful or counter productive?

I've been the only one fighting to save the marriage and working hard on self-improvement. But, if I cannot save it, yes I will move on and meet someone who will want to be with me--so she is not the only one. I do not want her to think I could never move on after a separation and divorce.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Actually this is great advice. Try it. Say it with confidence. Don't frame it as a question. Make it a statement. If she blows you off, shrug walk away and go into full blown 180 mode. Don't argue or whine just do it. And don't leave the bedroom. Show her you can be in the same room and be indifferent to her.
> 
> If you or she discuss divorce be completely matter of fact and very short on words.
> 
> MEM, thanks and I think I am going to follow this course. Except for the last 2 days, I had for about 3 months being short on words. But during that time I did try to have sex with her on some occasions, no begging or pleading, just a couple of back-rubs, one of which lead to sex early last month. But, I certainly can be in the same room and be indifferent to her.


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

MAP said:


> While I would have liked it to work out, I know she's not the only one.


This is a good mindset moving into the future. Good luck to you.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> May I tip toe in here for a moment?
> It is often talked about around here that when a woman is not interested in her husband, it must be because another man is in the picture. I disagree. Oftentimes us women are just fed up. Resentment, anger, etc.
> If she is "losing" interest then there is hope and Althol's book and blog works wonders! If she has "lost" interest, then she is done. She has made up her mind and is planning her exit, be it tomorrow or when the children are grown.
> I don't say this to deflate you. I say this so you can gauge where she is at. If you cannot find that out, anything you do is futile.


As I note below, my plan is it to try your suggestion as modified by MEM.

One other thought, would having my W read Athol's book/blog be a good idea? I ask you since you know about it. So I would be able to tell W I am now different and becoming the H that MMSL suggest I should be. This would not be empty words, I have made strides--losing weight and gaining muscle, about 10 more pounds to lose and I will quite good shape. She knows I have been I also upped alpha. (She may have already seen the book, but I have mostly kept it out of sight.)

If this is a foolish idea, please feel free to tell me. 


b<


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SockPuppet said:


> This is a good mindset moving into the future. Good luck to you.


I don’t understand that thinking, that way of being. If she’s the woman for you, you get her. Simples.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

MAP said:


> As I note below, my plan is it to try your suggestion as modified by MEM.
> 
> One other thought, would having my W read Athol's book/blog be a good idea? I ask you since you know about it. So I would be able to tell W I am now different and becoming the H that MMSL suggest I should be. This would not be empty words, I have made strides--losing weight and gaining muscle, about 10 more pounds to lose and I will quite good shape. She knows I have been I also upped alpha. (She may have already seen the book, but I have mostly kept it out of sight.)
> 
> ...


Mem and I are on the same page. When I wrote "look her dead in the eyes" I mean look at her with conviction, confidence and authority. Do not under any circumstances come across as whiney or begging. It is a statement rather than a question. Do you remember really means "I do and want to hear where you stand on this". 
As for asking her to read any book, forget it. YOU read it and change you. I asked my husband to read (after I read them myself) NMMNG and MMSL and he didn't finish either of them. What did that get me? Anger/frustration/sadness. The books that you bought are for you, not for someone else. If she wants to read them she will. You cannot force someone else to change.....you can only change you. If she isn't "lost", she will wake the hell up and see what is going on. 
Hope this helps.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

MAP said:


> I've gotten angry, but I thought the 180 and MMSL strategy did not include anger??? I thought I am supposed to be cool and control.


Speaking for MMSL, it's not about being angry, or not being angry. It's about taking direct action rather than talking about taking action, or just experiencing feelings.

You can be angry and take direct action, or you can not be angry and take direct action.

What is often very effective though is being clearly very angry indeed, but staying cool and in control as you take direct action.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Atholk said:


> Speaking for MMSL, it's not about being angry, or not being angry. It's about taking direct action rather than talking about taking action, or just experiencing feelings.
> 
> You can be angry and take direct action, or you can not be angry and take direct action.
> 
> What is often very effective though is being clearly very angry indeed, but staying cool and in control as you take direct action.


I agree with that. Plus I think a man can measure just how far he’s been pushed beyond his understanding, patience and tolerance by the amount of anger he feels in a given situation.

If my wife had declared the same things I’d have been very angry and that would have told me the amount by which she’d abused my good nature and that something was very wrong.

But it’s for the man to learn what his anger tells him, to not let it control him but rather learn how to dissipate it in healthy ways and to use it in positive ways.


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

MAP said:


> As I note below, my plan is it to try your suggestion as modified by MEM.
> 
> One other thought, would having my W read Athol's book/blog be a good idea? It ask you since you know about it. So I would be able to tell W I am now different and becoming the H that MMSL suggest I should be. This would not be empty words, I have made strides--losing weight and gaining muscle, about 10 more pounds to lose and I will quite good shape. She knows I have been I also upped alpha. (She may have already seen the book, but I have mostly kept it out of sight.)
> 
> ...


You cannot let her read any of this stuff until you guys get into a better situation. It just causes to many problems when your spouse knows the play book. She is seeing the changes in you and this is what spurred this whole thing on. You need to keep it up. As someone once told me, "you need to get to rejection quickly". You need do the hard 180 to force her to make up her mind.. She has to be the one to leave. You need to start digging into phone and computer records to see who she is talking too. Take from us, women can be devious about covering their tracks. This whole New Years things sound super suspicious.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Update: 
Feel free to pile on with “I told you so’s.” Learned 3 days ago she’s at least had an EA going on.

In early Jan I followed the advice above too see if she was willing to work to save marriage. It became clear over time she was not. 
I've continued the MAP, but as of mid Jan she was not moving in the right direction, and I told her she was not welcome in the marital bedroom and needed to move the guest room. She did. (thank god for the great advice here I have the good bed and master bedroom).

I then said I wanted the name of the div mediators she had gotten from someone, and I pushed the 180. A week went by and she did not give me the name. I asked again for the name so I could make an appointment. She said she was not sure she wanted to see a div mediator. I said fine then we see an MC (she had been reluctant befoe this). I continued the MAP and we saw MC 3 times, but wife offered little in these meetings but again said her lack of feelings were not mostly due to my low income. (But no doubt this is the reason). (for a brief time before I was laid off in a prior career, I was earning some good money and she was happier and more affectionate, she will not admit this, but that’s the reality which I have accepted).

I confronted the OM Wed when I saw him talking to her. I told him to stop talking to my wife, told him to not to speak with my kids, not to come to my house. He did not back down (he was trying to show alpha) but eventually walked away as wife was watching. That day I got the name of the div mediator and book an appointment for Wed. am.

The OM is a married professional colleague of hers and someone who dated her once or twice when they were in grad school. He earns 200+ and whines because he does not earn more. This am she actually suggested I should apologize to him for the confrontation. I laughed. She then admitted she has done nothing to shut down this guys flirting/interest. ( I plan to tell the OM wife not sure how to do this yet, and I do not have any hard proof txts or email).

We are planning to tell the kids tomorrow. Not looking forward to it.

Please offer any advice or input.

Are div mediators a bad idea?

Is joining match.com today a bad idea?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell his wife immediately. You don't say how you found out about the EA. You should have punched him. He's been to your house? Have you called her on her cheating? Be sure and tell her she's turning out just like her parents.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Ratting out the OM to his wife has a very good chance of winning your wife back. DO NOT TELL ANYONE YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT. If you do they will make you look like a nut.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

We told you so

Expose him to his wife - ASAP.

Divorce mediator - good idea.

Match.com - bad idea - for now.




MAP said:


> Update:
> Feel free to pile on with “I told you so’s.” Learned 3 days ago she’s at least had an EA going on.
> 
> In early Jan I followed the advice above too see if she was willing to work to save marriage. It became clear over time she was not.
> ...


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Tell his wife immediately. You don't say how you found out about the EA. You should have punched him. He's been to your house? Have you called her on her cheating? Be sure and tell her she's turning out just like her parents.



I found out about the EA by seeing him speaking with her several times, the fact that he has come to my house when I was not there, she admitted he's been flirting with her and rather than shut him down, she continued to doing things like barrow a CD movie from him when she knew I would not approve. I had asked her where she got the video and she lied about it saying it was a co worker. (He works at a diff office in town not at her office, so that was a deceptive lie).

Not sure how to tell his wife yet. I could leave a note for her at her office. I do not have her cell or email.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MAP said:


> I found out about the EA by seeing him speaking with her several times, the fact that he has come to my house when I was not there, she admitted he's been flirting with her and rather than shut him down, she continued to doing things like barrow a CD movie from him when she knew I would not approve. I had asked her where she got the video and she lied about it saying it was a co worker. (He works at a diff office in town not at her office, so that was a deceptive lie).
> 
> Not sure how to tell his wife yet. I could leave a note for her at her office. I do not have her cell or email.


Leave a note at her office.

Leave YOUR cell number on the note.

Tell her you need to speak with her immediately regarding a matter of urgent importance.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MAP said:


> I found out about the EA by seeing him speaking with her several times, the fact that he has come to my house when I was not there, she admitted he's been flirting with her and rather than shut him down, she continued to doing things like barrow a CD movie from him when she knew I would not approve. I had asked her where she got the video and she lied about it saying it was a co worker. (He works at a diff office in town not at her office, so that was a deceptive lie).
> 
> Not sure how to tell his wife yet. I could leave a note for her at her office. I do not have her cell or email.


try spokeo.com


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

UP DATE need help.

Did not have good proof til today. Found 2 emails from OM confirming hotel reservations. Printed them and went to wife of OM. 
Learned the POS divorced his wife over a year ago when she got breast cancer ( but he still lives in the same house with her and their high school aged kids. He's been a bad father and cheated on her with his secretary 10 years back). Learned when in grad school OM was married and my wife slept with him while he was married. His family made him end the affair back then. She had told me they only dated back in grad school. 

No other family to expose him to. My W is away with daughter at girls scout overnight. 

I have been pushing for mediated divorce since I confronted him in March (see above). We met with div mediator once and she has postponed follow up meetings the div mediator. I have been continuing the MAP/180. In better shape than I have been in 25 years. Working to land new job. Been good father and added more alpha. Have not pursued sex with her since March. 

Joined and been looking at pages in Match.com and she knows, but I have not contacted anyone or dated anyone else.

She has been a little nice to me in the last two months.

We did not yet tell the kids we are getting divorced. 

I can disclose via phone to her mother father bother sister and perhaps a few friends. I think her bother will tell her to save the marriage, but I think the rest of her family may well tell her to dump me. 

Please give me additional guidance.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If you've got email details of hotel reservations wait until the night before and call and cancel them. Nothing like messing up the cheaters a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Still trying to R? what's keeping your interest here? She sounds like a real piece if work.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> If you've got email details of hotel reservations wait until the night before and call and cancel them. Nothing like messing up the cheaters a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks I needed a laugh. 

Can a moderator please move this post to the coping with infidelity section.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There isn't much more guidance to give. It's now about making a choice and executing the choice.

You have been following the MAP with the hope that your wife would re-engage with you. That cannot happen while she is conducting an affair.

You have a couple of options:

1. Acknowledge the circumstances, as ugly as they are, and end the marriage with as little fanfare as possible, via mediation. Move on with your life.

2. Go to the mat. Make it apparent to her that her choice will carry a VERY high pain quotient. Right now she has been conducting an ongoing affair with absolutely NO consequences or impact on how she lives her life. Change that. Forego mediation. Go directly to an attorney and have her served with divorce papers. Fight her every, single, step of the way.

3. Stay in limbo and hope she changes.

I'm very sorry this is happening to you and your family.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Deejo said:


> There isn't much more guidance to give. It's now about making a choice and executing the choice.
> 
> You have been following the MAP with the hope that your wife would re-engage with you. That cannot happen while she is conducting an affair.
> 
> ...



Thanks Deejo. Three is not an option. I am leaning towards 2. She's been good covering her tracks til now. I doubt she will make another mistake to allow me to gain more evidence. No fault divorce here in CT, so I doubt her conduct will considered very much. My daughter is 12 and my son is 10 how much can I tell them.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MAP, Im sorry for the pain you're in.

Start with planning for divorce, Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)

If you can, play dumb husband for a while to strengthen your case.

Check your state law's if filing on grounds of adultery will have an effect on alimony/settlement.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You may find, and your wife may already know this but Conn may take adultery into consideration. Check into it closely.

No-Fault or Fault Divorce
Some U.S. states offer both a no-fault and a fault divorce option. Couples who do not want to observe the waiting period requirement are allowed to file for fault divorce. Some common grounds for fault include cruelty, adultery, desertion, confinement in prison or a similar institution, and inability to perform sexual intercourse, if this was not disclosed prior to the marriage. States that offer both no-fault and fault divorce include:
Alabama
Alaska
Connecticut
Delaware
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Maine
Massachusetts
Mississippi
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
West Virginia



Read more: Which States Have No Fault Divorce? | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Text your wife and tell her OM called up and cancelled their hotel reservations.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks chapparal. 

I found another email of her's to an old friend indicating that she has been sad about pursing the div, and ending or family and that's why she has dragged her feet about the div mediator.

I would consider R if she ended the A with no contact, showed remorse and took the correct steps, I know this is unlikely, but how wrong or foolish would I be to do so if it is possible?

I am a good man, and I know from speaking with is wife, he is a is really a POS.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Or you could show up at the hotel when they arrive?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Text your wife and tell her OM called up and cancelled their hotel reservations.


LOL. I really want to confront her in the most effective way. I have had no txt, call, or any contact with her since finding the emails from the OM today.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Or you could show up at the hotel when they arrive?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


and drop off the kids. Tell them you're going to the movies.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> and drop off the kids. Tell them you're going to the movies.



The 2 hotel reservations are for June and July. If she was there with him tonight I probably would go knocking, but tonight she's away with our daughter on girl scout overnight. 

The POS earns a lot of money, but hid it oversees from his xwife. He lives at the house with his xwife to avoid paying child support. He is also avoiding a paying half of his kids college.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read Married Man Sex Life and No More Mr Nice Guy. These explain how a wife loses respect/love for a husband and how to get it back.



Also from another website:

Benefits
Fault-based divorce offers several benefits. In many states, a waiting period is required for a no-fault divorce but not for a fault-based divorce. For instance, New York requires a one-year separation period before a no-fault divorce can be made final, but no such period is required to obtain a fault-based divorce, according to Women's Law. Next, a fault-based divorce may entitle the spouse who was not at fault to receive child custody, spousal support or alimony, and/or a larger share of the marital assets.

Effects
The effects of a fault-based divorce can be positive or negative. As noted above, child custody, spousal support, or a larger share of the marital assets may be among the positive effects of a fault-based divorce. However, since fault-based divorces require proving fault in court, they are often messier and more acrimonious than no-fault divorces. If the fault is especially embarrassing, such as adultery, the spouses may prefer to seek a no-fault divorce rather than risk revealing the embarrassing behavior to the public.

Considerations
Hiring a lawyer when seeking a fault-based divorce is often the wisest course of action. An attorney can explain how fault-based divorce works in your specific state and can help you think of things to request from the court that you may not have considered, such as a share of your spouse's pension or retirement account, according to Women's Law. Forgetting to ask for these things during the divorce proceedings may prevent you from ever benefiting from them. In some states, you may be able to have the court appoint a divorce lawyer for you if you cannot afford one.



Read more: Why File For A Fault-based Divorce? | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> and drop off the kids. Tell them you're going to the movies.



The 2 hotel reservations are for June and July. If she was there with him tonight I probably would go knocking, but tonight she's away with our daughter on girl scout overnight. 

The POS earns a lot of money, but hid it oversees from his xwife. He lives at the house with his xwife to avoid paying child support. He is also avoiding paying half of his kids college.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

I've read MMSL and have been following a MAP and 180 type strategy. I was a beta nice guy and have changed since reading Athol's great book in Sept.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MAP said:


> The 2 hotel reservations are for June and July. If she was there with him tonight I probably would go knocking, but tonight she's away with our daughter on girl scout overnight.
> 
> The POS earns a lot of money, but hid it oversees from his xwife. He lives at the house with his xwife to avoid paying child support. He is also avoiding paying half of his kids college.


Does your wife know this?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I take it the OM has no fear of you?


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Does your wife know this?


I an not sure what she knows. She may not listen when I tell her. I know when their in a the fog they here very little. I do not know if she knows about OM leaving his w when she got breast cancer. She may know and not care. His wife did not want to fight him in the divorce because the stress would have hurt her chances of a recovery from the surgery and cancer. He wanted her to go back to work shortly after her surgery. What a POS.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I take it the OM has no fear of you?


Not at this point. I do not plan to confront him again, but maybe I should. I am not looking to fight him.

His xwife told me he maybe looking to move to another state, perhaps Cal. She doubts that he will make a real commitment to my w. I am considering going public here. It may hurt his business. And he cares a lot about money.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Expose to her family and your family. Let them know you just found out she has been cheating on you, that you have suspected as much since _____________, but she has been lying to you since then, and that now you know the truth and have evidence. Do not say what the evidence is or how you got it. Ask them for their support of your marriage.

Wait until your wife comes home and your daughter is in bed to confront your wife. Let her know you have found evidence she is cheating, do not tell her what it is or how you found it. Let her know what the other man's divorced wife said about him, how he hid money to the detriment of his children, how he refuses to pay for their college. Tell her it's fine if she no longer wants you, you have no problem if she wants to leave the marriage, but it shouldn't be with a person of such low morals as the other man, she can do better than that. Let her know how disappointed in her you are that she would lie to you about it all this time, that if she wanted a divorce she should have just asked you for one, there was no need to cheat on you behind your back and lie to your face all this time, after all you have a child together and you've been through life's ups and downs together, the lying is as bad as the cheating, if not worse. Then tell her that she must choose you or him. Give her a very short time to do so, a half hour is fine. If she doesn't choose you, let her know you will be filing for divorce, then do so first thing Monday. You can always stop the divorce if she decides to meet your conditions.

If she does choose you, I suggest giving her these conditions: Complete honesty from her about all affair details. End all contact with the other man. Handwrite the other man a "no contact letter" stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for risking losing her marriage and family, and that the other man should never contact her again, and if he does attempt to do so she will file harassment charges against him. If she must have contact with him at work, the letter should state other-than-work-related contact. Also, if they work together, she must begin looking for a new job immediately. Also, she must give you all passwords and access to her communication devices and accounts.

It doesn't sound like she will choose you, but at least you know the truth. She has fooled you for so long, and you have put up with so much from her, she likely will think she can continue having both you and the other man and that you will continue to put up with it, despite your tough words. Only after you actually file for divorce will she really believe you will go through with it. And only then might she decide to dump the other man and return to the marriage. You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it. Don't count on it, though. Prepare for the worst.

Accept the fact that, no matter what you do, you might lose your marriage. If so, at least you will do so with dignity and self-respect and, whatever is going to happen, it will happen sooner and save you from months or possibly years of additional pain.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she and you decide to reconcile there are steps you can take. Come back and you can find support here though some will crtisize.

How did you find out about the hotel?

Many here feel the OM should not be confronted, I totally disagree.

In his case I might even put up a picket line in front of his business. With a parade permit of course. LOL


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

chapparal said:


> If she and you decide to reconcile there are steps you can take. Come back and you can find support here though some will crtisize.
> 
> How did you find out about the hotel?
> 
> ...


I learned of the hotel plans because, she left her new computer unlocked today. I found a few other emails to friends that suggest there was no affair, but she's unhappy with being the primary bread winner. They also state her family is pushing her to div because of how hard she has to work.


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## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks Will. I am going to follow a lot of what u wrote.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

MAP,
Kane. 
I agree with Will Kane. Time to go nuclear with a scorched earth policy.

Her family is all messed up from their parents divorce so it does not surprise they would tell her to dump you. They obviously have no value on family.

Your wife works alot!! Boo Hoo! A lot of people do not even have jobs right now.

If a posom was ever in my face he would be flat on his face in 10 seconds.

You should pack her crap up and dump it on his lawn with a copy of the hotel reservations.

Your wife is so, so selfish. Ask her what kind of values is she showing your daughter by the life she is leading with OM!!!

Time to step it up Alpha Man. 


*For better or for worse??? So show her your worse side now!!!!*

Blow their Affair right out of the water via phone calls, emails and facebook. Put a big sign on the lawn declaring her a cheater and she is dragging her feet on a clean divorce.

What have you really got to lose now.....

Other than your sanity.

HM64


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