# Wondering whether to confront



## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks for all your responses. I need to make healthy decisions now and I don't feel comfortable having this post up indefinitely.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Sounds like you both have some major issues. He threatened to kill your car, raped you, and beat up your friends. He's crazy and honestly for your safety you need to stay away from him. This is not normal behavior
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

My only question is really why did you need another man and why you decided to have a night spending "intimate encounter" with the guy while he was out of town.
In regard to him, many guys may go for a revenge affair but what's concerning is your old man went into town to pick up a homosexual. Does he have a history of swinging both ways? 
In regard to the ex girlfriend, she probably knows he's a few bricks shy of a full load and wishes he'd just disappear. I wouldn't be concerned about her being stupid enough to want him back.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

see above.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You had an emotional affair with no sex.

So, in order to make himself feel better he got roaring drunk whilst under medication, attacked and hurt other people, raped you, threatened the life of an innocent creature, your cat, tried to have sex with another man, tried to get it on with a former lover and is making threats to you, including threatening to only ever have anal sex with you for the rest of your marriage. (Anal sex, wanting to have sex with another man. Are those linked, I wonder?)

Dear God! Imagine what he would have done if you had actually had sex with the OM? 

This marriage is done. He has flambed your marriage with a flamethrower!

What would I recommend? 

Divorce. *Soon*. Plus restraint orders.

Why?

Because I doubt if your brief EA was able to turn your husband into a rapist, cat threatening, bi-curious psycho thug who beats up his innocent friends.

That was already within him, in my opinion.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Okay. This is one of the more unbelievable stories I have read. To recap: you had an emotional affair, in response, he raped you, threatened to sodomize you for the remainder of your marriage, threatened to kill a cat, had a homosexual encounter, and now is in some form of affair with an Ex girlfriend. You end all of that with a fear that you will lose access to a facebook account if you confront him about communicating with an ex?!

Going against my strong doubts about a lot of this, let me just say, No. This is not worth salvaging. This is not worth going back to. It is not worth the energy it takes to type (.). I won't speak of my strong doubts.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

The marriage is over. Divorce.

Any kids? Doesn't matter. Divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Your marriage is pretty new. Why so soon were you looking for external validation & connection with another man? Please don't say "It just happened. It was an accident!" That not true.

What was your relationship like before your affair? Had your H exhibited any warning signs that he had mental problems? How did he react when you argued or critisized him before the affair & discovery?

Some people do truly experience a mental break. Add medications & alcohol to the mix & it can wreck havoc on ones mind but his behavior is VERY extreme in weird ways!! Has he shown other violence to you? 

What is his history like? Does he have past issues? Criminal record? Violence? Abuse?

I think that you're in a VERY dangerous situation. Please protect yourself. You only need to look in the news to see how disastrously this can all end.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@eclatone I am worried for both you and your cat.


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## TriHouse (Aug 9, 2016)

You are harboring way too much shame for your affair than you deserve, and you do not have healthy boundaries in place. You need to stop thinking about reconciling from him (or separating, for that matter), and focus on you right now. Do not make this about him or your relationship at all until you fully work through and forgive yourself for your discretion. Until you do that, you are vulnerable to abuse. And he is abusive. Period.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

eclatone said:


> I literally can't believe that he could hurt me. Though I know it seems possible from all of the above. He doesn't have a criminal record, but does have a history of self harm. We were arguing a lot about his emotional avoidance issues and supposedly my constant attacking him and criticism. I'm not the sweetest person, but I never intend to harm or hurt someone. I can be pretty harsh in pointing out bs and he comes from a background of avoiding confrontation at all costs. I think this situation opened like an emotional gate in him allowing him some kind of perceived free pass to do and say whatever he felt like to me as punishment. A lot of it felt like testing my limits.


It sounds like he has bigger issues and your ea uncorked them. It sounds like both of you really need to work on yourselves first, then try to save this marriage if you choose. 

Neither of you apparently have the coping skills to deal with stress/major issues, he certainly doesn't based on what you have written. You can't be held hostage to his potential emotional outbursts or harming himself. You've been married a very short time. In general terms it only gets harder as the years/responsibilities grow.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

eclatone said:


> OK..yeah I mean I just feel really confused, especially because his parents are convinced that I'm manipulative and emotionally abusing SO because they don't believe their son has any issues. They don't know any of the details I provided above and I feel like it would be wrong to hang out dirty laundry. You say you have doubts about aspects of this-- what are you referring to?


Every thing. There are protocols that I cannot violate, but the whole thing.

I'm trying to figure out how an EA results in spousal rape and threats of sodomy for the rest of the marriage. I'm trying to see how an EA results in a gay encounter by a straight man. I'm trying to figure out how an EA results in threats of animal cruelty. I'm trying to figure out how a rape victim thinks that her rapist is "testing her limits", based on your most recent posts. 

There is just so much. You need the police, mental health aid, a restraining order, prayer, burnt offerings, I don't even know.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

This is a massive, unacceptable, dangerous over-reaction!!!

I don't give a rats a$$ what his parents think about you. Do not go back to this man. You may not get a second chance to get away the next time he snaps. 

What you described is psychotic. So sorry you are going through this. Protect yourself and your furbaby.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Write his parents a letter about all he's done, mail it to them. Then see what happens.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Your husband obviously has some major issues that need to be dealt with.

But I am not sure how you think he is supposed to believe you spend the entire night with another mans while he was out of town and did not have sex??? Really?? What did you do discuss politics??? And it is obvious your husband does not believe it either although his reaction was way over the line.

So if you actually want to save your marriage, I would start with CONVINCING his you are being totally truthful, especially since you did NOT tell this the truth but trickled it out. In his mind, why should he stop with this other woman. To trust you because you told him you did not have sex. You better accept the you are NOT TRUSTWORTHY to him at this point and own that.

If I were you, and if you can get him to the point of calming down and getting help, I would VOLUNTEER to take a polygraph test because that is the only way he is going to believe you did not actually have sex with this OM and that you are not still in contact with him.

Even if you never do it, the OFFER to prove your honesty should help him want to do what is right.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Toddlers and puppies in training test limits. What your husband did was commit multiple crimes. The man you married is seriously mentally ill, he is not husband material, you cannot fix him, and the best course of action is to file for a divorce and a restraining order.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

eclatone said:


> He doesn't have a criminal record, but does have a history of self harm.


Eclat, did your H's self harming consist of arm cutting or head banging? Did it start occurring in his mid- to late-teens?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If your husband had come here and said his wife had an EA then spent the night with the other man but she swears they did not have sex, we would be telling him that his wife is lying and that she almost 100% had sex with other man. I doubt he believes you. What did the "intimate encounter" consist of? Kissing? Genital contact? Oral?

That being said his reaction is way out of line. Physical attacks, rape, threats of further harm are all reasons to leave and never return.

With a short marriage of less than three years, divorce is most likely the best option.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Oh my, just stick a fork in it, it's done.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

how would you feel if he had an EA?

would you be calm?

put yourself in his place and see what how you would feel.

We get your version of what happened.

You do not love him, you stabbed him in the heart, cut it out of his body, and threw it in the fire.

Give him his D. both of you have hurt each other beyond any R.

Keep going to the counselor. See if you can have much better boundaries in the future, or do not keep cutting out the heart of future partners that you are supposed to love.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

deleted


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

"put yourself in his place and see what how you would feel."

Infidelity is a terrible thing. I think bs & WS are both often completely shocked by how much damage & agony it causes. I've been through plenty of bad things in my life, being blindsided by my husbands betrayal of me was awful!! I mean comparable to the suicide of my beloved big brother (only sibling). It physically hurt! I was left with panic attacks, no selfesteem, self loathing ugh!!

However... I NEVER raped anyone!! OMG! I'm assuming you're talking about a clear case of brutal rape?!?!? He wants to kill & EAT Your cat?!?! WHAT!!! This is NOT NORMAL!! I can't believe I feel like I have to write that!! 

I studied psychology at one point in my life & had the opportunity to spend time at the main maximum security hospital for the criminally insane in the UK. I was allowed to visit the top security women's ward (with security) but I wasn't permitted access to the men's. The doctors stated that men are a lot more dangerous than women. Extreme mental illness presents as self-harm in women & harm of others in men but it's the same degree of mental illness!

A man who has a history of self-harm can be extremely dangerous. If he can cut himself, he can cut you!! I fear that you are in a lot more danger than you think you are!

Rape is NOT a crime of passion. Hysterical bonding BETWEEN a couple is about closeness, marking your territory etc. Rape is about degradation, humiliation, pain & abuse. If your H can look into your face & do that to you he is mentally sick. He does NOT have the normal restraint & empathy that human beings should have!

For revenge he wanted to screw & own a man. He's very sick!!


We have these forums for advise & support. Most conform to the 'cheaters script', there are commonalities for bs & WS to discuss. LOOK AT THE NEWS!! A percentage of WS & BS end-up DEAD following adultery. A news story I read about a woman held captive, raped & tortured for weeks comes to mind. There are certain situations that forums are ill equipped to deal with. I fear that this is one of those!

What atrocity do you have blind faith that your husband isn't capable of? He can rape you. He threatens to torture, kill & EAT your pet!! Does he own weapons? Not that that matters that much. Most find it easier to use a gun because of the distance but if your H is capable of raping you he's capable of strangling or stabbing you!

PLEASE!!! You are NOT safe!! He has PROVEN that you are not safe!


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@Uptown? 
@straightshooter intimate encounter, no sex, spent the night is code for oral sex, digits well exercised, kissing, in short everything but PIV or PIA.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Eclat, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, verbal and physical abuse, controlling behavior, lack of impulse control, and self harming -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as physical abuse, extreme rage, lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



eclatone said:


> [He] told me to kill myself... had sex with me against my will... and wound up in jail for physically assaulting our friends.


Physical violence against one's partner is strongly associated with strong BPD traits. If your H is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that TRIGGERS a release of anger that is already there. 

This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner (e.g., your rape) has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> ...does have a history of *self harm*.


Eclat, the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists _"self-harming behavior such as cutting"_ as a defining trait for only one disorder: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. 

A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that_ "Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but *the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder*. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma._" See *J Psych Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004*.

If your H really is a BPDer, his BPD traits likely started showing strongly during his early to mid teens when hormones were surging. The traits probably would have disappeared around you, however, during the courtship period because his infatuation would have held his two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. As the infatuation started to evaporate, the fears would return.



> These responses are actually helping me not feel so *crazy*.


Eclat, if you really have been living with a BPDer for nearly 3 years, "crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.



> I want to reconcile and move on.


If you are determined to attempt a reconciliation, my advice is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Importantly, if you decide that you are seeing strong BPD traits, you should not rely on the psychologist who has been seeing both of you. Rather, see your own psychologist -- one who has never seen or treated your H -- for reasons I discuss in *Loath to Diagnose*. 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most seem to apply to your H's behavior. An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 Warning Signs*_. 

If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join @*BrokenLady*, @*JohnA*, @*TDSC60*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Eclat.


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## btterflykisses (Apr 29, 2016)

Divorce him. He does not respect, himself, people or cats. That is just insane behaviour.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

eclatone said:


> I literally can't believe that he could hurt me. Though I know it seems possible from all of the above. *He doesn't have a criminal record,* but does have a history of self harm. We were arguing a lot about his emotional avoidance issues and supposedly my constant attacking him and criticism. I'm not the sweetest person, but I never intend to harm or hurt someone. I can be pretty harsh in pointing out bs and he comes from a background of avoiding confrontation at all costs. I think this situation opened like an emotional gate in him allowing him some kind of perceived free pass to do and say whatever he felt like to me as punishment. A lot of it felt like testing my limits.


The only reason that he does not have a criminal record is that it seems people have not reported his criminal activity.

He raped you.. that's a crime. He's criminal.

He beat up your friends... that's a crime. He's a criminal.

You are married to a dangerous man. He's already hurt you. I wonder why you don't seem to realize this.

Your marriage is over. If you go back to him it will only get worse.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why are you deleting your posts? Are you not getting the responses you expected? What responses are those?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your husband is a batterer. Susan Brownmiller(?) in the mid to late seventies proposed that rape was not a sexual crime per say but rather was physical like one guy attacking another with fists, baseball bats etc and putting the victim in te hospital or beating him to death for the real reason. It is an act of forcing/asserting dominance. You are a battered woman at extreme risk.

I copied and saved a post by @ellegirl that lists the steps you need to follow. Listen to her, she has been there and gotten out whole.

Elegirl advise for battered woman

Call 911 and they will help you get away.

If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 1 800 799 7233. They are available 24/7 via both phone and chat.

http://www.thehotline.org/help/*

========================================

It is very hard to leave a marriage. Boy do I know that from experience. There is a way to make it easier… having a plan and having a strong support system. Just work your plan one step at a time. That way you are not look at a huge problem. Instead you are looking at small steps.*

If you search on the internet for "domestic abuse exit plan" or "domestic abuse safety plan" a lot will come up that you can look over. The one below is one that I added some things to base on my own experience.

Get a support system:

Find a local organization that provides counseling and help for victims of domestic abuse (emotional and physical). Get into counseling with them. They will have sliding scale counseling.

Also check into legal aid in your area.


Talk to attorneys and do research on the internet to find out your rights in divorce. Be informed. Check out legal aid in your area. Ask the domestic abuse organization if they have a list of attorneys who do pro-bono work or very low fee work and how specialize in cases of divorce with domestic abuse. Most will have such a list. Many attorneys will give a half hour free consultation. If you have a good list of questions, you can learn about your rights and how the local court system handles specific issues. You might even find an attorney that you really like.

Let a trusted family member, friend, coworker or neighbors know your situation. Develop a plan for when you need help; code words you can text if in trouble, a visual signal like a porch light: on equals no danger, off equals trouble.*

Set up a ‘safe address’ and ‘safe storage space’. If you have a trusted friend/family-member, ask them if you can use their address for some things and if you can store some things at their place… like a box of important papers. If you do not have someone who will help you out in this way, rent a PO Box and a small storage space. Use the ‘safe addresses for your mail. Use the ‘safe storage space’ to keep important things you will need like:


your mail from the ‘safe address’

All account info and ATM card for your personal checking account

Copies of all financial paperwork, filed tax forms, etc.

Certified copies of birth certificates, marriage license, passports,*

Car title, social security cards, credit cards,*

Citizenship documents (such as your passport, green card, etc.)*

Titles, deeds and other property information*

Medical records

Children's school and immunization records

Insurance information

Verification of social security numbers Make sure you know your husband’s Social Security Number and your son’s.*

Welfare identification

Valued pictures, jewelry or personal possessions
Your safety Plan: this is so that you can leave immediately if things get out of hand.

Know the phone number to your local battered women's shelter.*

Keep your cell phone on you at all times for dialing 911. It’s best to dial 911. You need to establish a record of his abuse. So call 911 and start creating that record. If you think that it is not safe for you to leave, ask the 911 operator to send the police so that they can ensure your and your child’s safety when you leave.

If you are injured, go to a doctor or an emergency room and report what happened to you. Ask that they document your visit.*

Keep a journal of all violent incidences, noting dates, events and threats made.*

Keep any evidence of physical abuse, such as pictures.*

You can get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times when you are around your husband. This way you can get recordings of the abuse.*

Plan with your children and identify a safe place for them. Reassure them that their job is to stay safe, not to protect you.

If you need to sneak away, be prepared. Make a plan for how and where you will escape.*

Back your car into the driveway, and keep it fueled. Keep your driver's door unlocked and other doors locked for a quick escape.*

Hide an extra set of car keys.*

Set money aside. Open a checking account in your name only and put your paycheck (or a portion of it) in that account. Do not use the address of the home you live in with him for this checking account. Use your ”safe address” to the account and keep all of the paperwork related to the account in your “safe storage space”.*

Pack a bag. Include an extra set of keys, IDs, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, credit cards, marriage license, clothes for yourself and your children, shoes, medications, banking information, money" anything that is important to you. Store them at a trusted friend or neighbor's house. Try to avoid using the homes of next-door neighbors, close family members and mutual friends.*

Take important phone numbers of friends, relatives, doctors, schools, etc.*

Know abuser's schedule and safe times to leave.*

Be careful when reaching out for help via Internet or telephone. Erase your Internet browsing history, websites visited for resources, e-mails sent to friends/family asking for help. If you called for help, dial another number immediately after in case abuser hits redial.*

Create a false trail. Call motels, real estate agencies and schools in a town at least six hours away from where you plan to relocate.

After Leaving the Abusive Relationship*

If you get a restraining order, and the offender is leaving:*

Change your locks and phone number.*

Change your work hours and route taken to work.*

Change the route taken to transport children to school.*


Keep a certified copy of your restraining order with you at all times.*

Inform friends, neighbors and employers that you have a restraining order in effect.*

Give copies of the restraining order to employers, neighbors and schools along with a picture of the offender.*


Call law enforcement to enforce the order.*

If you leave:*

Consider renting a post office box or using the address of a friend for your mail. Be aware that addresses are on restraining orders and police reports. Be careful to whom you give your new address and phone number.*

Change your work hours, if possible.*

Alert school authorities of the situation.*

Consider changing your children's schools.*

Reschedule appointments if the offender is aware of them.*

Use different stores and frequent different social spots.*

Alert neighbors, and request that they call the police if they feel you may be in danger.*

Talk to trusted people about the violence.*

Replace wooden doors with steel or metal doors. Install security systems if possible. Install a motion sensitive lighting system.*

Tell people you work with about the situation and have your calls screened by one receptionist if possible.*

Tell people who take care of your children who can pick up your children. Explain your situation to them and provide them with a copy of the restraining order.*

Call the telephone company to request caller ID. Ask that your phone number be blocked so that if you call anyone, neither your partner nor anyone else will be able to get your new, unlisted phone number.


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## eclatone (Aug 13, 2016)

I appreciate all the responses. I don't consider myself in any immediate danger because I am already separated from H. I also don't consider myself a "battered woman" that's going really far...I wasn't brutally raped or hurt by H. Only coerced/manipulated into sex when I didn't want to have it. I never said I was brutally raped....that being said I feel like his behavior was abusive. 

I think he displayed symptoms of BPD and he is going to continue seeking treatment as soon as possible. I got the responses I needed to feel more confidant in pushing therapy before R and even being physically together again. I don't mean to offend anyone by deleting.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Eclatone

If you said no, and he continued, it's rape. Whether manipulating, physically undressing you, using alcohol or drugs, it's rape. All you have to do is say no, it's your body, not his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

eclatone said:


> I appreciate all the responses. I don't consider myself in any immediate danger because I am already separated from H. I also don't consider myself a "battered woman" that's going really far...I wasn't brutally raped or hurt by H. Only coerced/manipulated into sex when I didn't want to have it. I never said I was brutally raped....that being said I feel like his behavior was abusive.
> 
> I think he displayed symptoms of BPD and he is going to continue seeking treatment as soon as possible. I got the responses I needed to feel more confidant in pushing therapy before R and even being physically together again. I don't mean to offend anyone by deleting.


This is your space. Post or delete what you like. Take the advice or don't. All is up to you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Whenever my girlfriend and now wife asked me to stop during intercourse, guess what? 

I stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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