# Just Dealing With It All



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

*What do you do when you start to feel overwhelmed by it all?*

Working 8-10 hours a day
Working more when needed
Exercise
Meeting my wife’s emotional needs
Meeting my wife’s (and my own) sexual needs
Time alone to think
Playing with my kids
Talking to my kids
Simple things like car washes, batteries on smoke detectors, helping around the house
Going to school events


My wife isn’t working, so my job is critical.
I love my kids and can’t imagine cutting back on the time I spend with them
I “think” exercise should improve my life in all of the other areas, so maybe it should be number one on the list
My marriage is still “fragile”, so I feel like I need to be spending EXTRA time there.
I NEED time to myself. I’m an introvert. Its how I re-charge. I get very irritable if I’m around other people for too long – including my wife and kids.
I would like to start going to church again too. And play guitar more.

Guess sleep should be in there somewhere too.

Plus all of the little $hit you have to do every day – floss, meals, run by the bank or WHATEVER.

*What do you do when you start to feel overwhelmed by it all?*


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## Jeep73170 (Dec 26, 2010)

Going back to church is an excellent idea. I joined a weekly Men's bible study and it really has helped me to have the biblical influence. It is the best church thing I have ever done.


Great Idea !


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

nice777guy said:


> *What do you do when you start to feel overwhelmed by it all?*


I can tell you what I used to do; I used to wonder why my partner wasn't feeling the same thing.

In your case, I'm presuming that you know by default that you are signing up for extra duty as a result of your wife's condition.

However, if she isn't paying attention to YOU, and your efforts - jumping back to my circumstances once again, it's worthy of re-evaluating 'what does she bring to the table?' how do I benefit from this arrangement? - topic of another thread.

I literally went through this exercise after having gone to the hospital twice with chest pain back in 07 and 08.

We were sinking. I asked for her help to right the ship by either:
stepping up financially - increase our overall income to reduce our monthly red ink.

step up domestically - take care of our home.

Neither occurred. Importantly? Despite her working on herself, and undeniably making progress, neither have still occurred. She would argue that nothing she does is 'good enough' in my eyes ... tragically, she'd still be correct. I think what she has done is great _for her_. It is not great _for me_.

I've come to accept that she has extremely limited capabilities in conducting her life as an adult.

Since moving out, I have made no trips back to the ER with chest pain. All of the same problems remain firmly in place. However, none of them impact me as they did when we were coupled.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

During the first year of marriage and a little over -> I just got drunk. Since pancreatitis however, needed to find something to achieve what I achieved with booze - something to just make me forget reality/life/pressure for a while.

I've taken up a new hobby driving down to the country every once in a while to clear my head. My mate has a horse there too and it's nice to be away from civilisation for a day or 2, it's my therapy, and it works. Think hobbies are needed really.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

take some time to myself, talk to my partner, smoke a lil weed, ask for help, talk to my friends, get some perspective, count my blessings, let the little things go

hope that helped


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Honestly, sometimes I just need a drink! It's not really healthy to live that way, but it works well when I've had a really stressful day (I also don't have kids though). My situation is actually really different haha...I probably work only 20 hours per week waitressing (which stinks though b/c sometimes I come home really late), but I'm also a full time student and have extracurricular commitments, still have all the chores/bills that adults have, want to go out with friends, etc. so sometimes I get overwhelmed too!

I do yoga and meditate, and I LOVE it! I used to think yoga was just hippy hogwash, but when I tried it, I found it so calming--I feel like time expands and I am fully recharged after a session. Mindfulness meditation is also wonderful--google it and try it out! I don't usually meditate for more than 10 minutes at a time, but it does help so much with introspection and calming.

I hardly ever watch TV--I think TV is an awful time sink and no way to relax, recharge, or do anything useful...You could be sleeping, having sex, or getting chores done instead of watching TV and it would bring you more happiness (even the chores--because you feel proud of yourself at the end, instead of feeling like "Oh **** I just wasted another hour in front of the TV").

Hm, my last suggestion would be to work efficiently at work, and don't bring it home with you. Take short breaks every 45 minutes to optimize efficiency, and avoid getting on facebook, playing games, or staring at your email inbox.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I don't know since you said:


> I NEED time to myself. I’m an introvert. Its how I re-charge. I get very irritable if I’m around other people for too long – including my wife and kids.


Here is my wife and I's life:

Work 50-52hrs week
3 Kids one in rehab after going to college and finding out she has a problem.
Violin, gymnastics, karate
Church on Sunday
We both workout 
Normal house work etc
Babysit our niece's baby on Friday nights

That is just the stuff, so our lives are similar in that respect. The difference is I get all of my recharging by being with my wife and kids. I have ZERO alone time except for working out and I wouldn't want it any other way.

I treasure getting to sleep next to my wife at night. Go for a walk for 25 minutes while drinking a glass of Merlot and of course trying to score

Your post just adds more evidence that everyone is different and there isn't a one size fits all for any of this!! We are both nice guys with totally different lives and ways to get those needs met.

I don't see how you get unstressed if your recharge time isn't with the wife/kids. Your schedule like mine doesn't have much of that precious element called "time" in it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Deejo said:


> I've come to accept that she has extremely limited capabilities in conducting her life as an adult.


Deejo,

Sounds a bit familiar - although it comes and goes.

She's capable, but not consistent. In part due to her condition - and in part because she's spoiled.

We did quite a bit of stuff with the kids' rooms this weekend to make room for their Christmas presents, but it wore her out. THAT is the Fibro.

Maybe I just need to be more patient. She's only been back home for one month. I just feel both of us slipping back into old habits/patterns. Things need to be different. I'm just not sure how to get there.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Oh yea, and NO TV IN THE BEDROOM!!! This goes for anyone and everyone. You can watch porn on a laptop (don't have a laptop? Sell your bedroom TV and buy a used laptop with the cash) if you really need to. You should be talking, sleeping, or having sex in the bedroom, not watching Dancing with the Stars.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lime said:


> Honestly, sometimes I just need a drink! It's not really healthy to live that way, but it works well when I've had a really stressful day


Heh mate, booze is alright as long as you drink moderately.

Not like ~8 1.25L bottles of bourbon a week... that's how I got pancreatitis anyway.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This reminds me of back in 05. W was doing the SAHM thing and I was working a LOT. And all 3 kids were in school yet she struggled to get little things done that I asked for. When I directly and bluntly told her "I no longer care what your priorities are and that won't change until you fix this problem" suddenly like magic I became important. 

NG,
There is a lot of little stuff your W simply needs to do. I NEVER asked my W to justify her days because to be honest I knew she couldn't and frankly were the situation reversed I wouldn't have been able to either. But I did hammer on the idea that if she couldn't be bothered to get 3-4 hours of stuff done a week that was important to me, than I didn't feel important to her. 





Deejo said:


> I can tell you what I used to do; I used to wonder why my partner wasn't feeling the same thing.
> 
> In your case, I'm presuming that you know by default that you are signing up for extra duty as a result of your wife's condition.
> 
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> *What do you do when you start to feel overwhelmed by it all?*
> 
> Working 8-10 hours a day
> Working more when needed
> ...


For ME, the first thing I try is mindfulness. It helps calm and center me. There are a bunch of good resources on amazon about mindfulness. I like my meditation to include yoga as often as I can. It is a double whammy of mindful meditation and exercise.

Once the calm has restored to my mind, and that shaky freak out feeling is gone, I prioritize. For me, the list would be paired down and/or combined...
priority one for you is work by necessity. for me it would be kid time
priority two would be me alone time
I am not sure what you mean by meet my wife's emotional needs. Your marriage is fragile, so time is needed. Can it be combined with exercise for example? And kid time? The kids and I exercise together. We go tot he running track and do laps. I run, my son prefers sprints. My dd also prefers sprints. We pass each other on the track and give each other encouragement... Cant run now post surgery... But when I can, we will resume.
Priority zero... should be at the top of the list... is sleep for me. I am a big fat meanie without it.

Anything I can get the rest of the family involved in, I do. I forget how old your kids are, and I think I recall that you are having some difficulty with your daughter, so this might not work for you. But I would call a family meeting and say I have too much on my plate. I know you love me and want to help. How can we change things to I have more time for the important stuff like having fun with you...

I hope these thoughts are helpful. You have so much on your plate right now!Good luck to you!

S


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Deejo,
> 
> Sounds a bit familiar - although it comes and goes.
> 
> She's capable, but not consistent. In part due to her condition - and in part because she's spoiled.


Drat, I don't remember what her condition is. That can impact what I would suggest next which would be unspoil her! Limit setting, blah blah. You have heard it all before. But if she has a medical condition, that sounds like it would interfere.

What a conundrum.



> We did quite a bit of stuff with the kids' rooms this weekend to make room for their Christmas presents, but it wore her out. THAT is the Fibro.
> 
> Maybe I just need to be more patient. She's only been back home for one month. I just feel both of us slipping back into old habits/patterns. Things need to be different. I'm just not sure how to get there.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

OhGeesh said:


> I don't know since you said:
> 
> 
> Here is my wife and I's life:
> ...


But see, that's just it. Eliminate you from the equation. Utterly. Entirely. You're gone - under whatever circumstances.

All that stuff that takes up your 'time'? Would still get done - or it would be adjusted.

In my case? My ex just didn't want to have to do it. There was no joyful 'partnering'.

Take the 'good' out of the relationship and all of those tasks you enjoy, start to morph from enjoyable to stressful and overwhelming.

Don't get me wrong, I admire your circumstances. I had the same at one time. I loved 'doing' for my wife and my family.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

lime said:


> Oh yea, and NO TV IN THE BEDROOM!!! This goes for anyone and everyone. You can watch porn on a laptop (don't have a laptop? Sell your bedroom TV and buy a used laptop with the cash) if you really need to. You should be talking, sleeping, or having sex in the bedroom, not watching Dancing with the Stars.


Again different strokes for different folks! We don't have a TV in the (living room/family room) wouldn't go without one in the bedroom!!

We watch cooking shows, home shows, movies, and our physical life is 2-3 times a week....wouldn't have it any other way!! Love cuddling and watching shows together.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Drat, I don't remember what her condition is. That can impact what I would suggest next which would be unspoil her! Limit setting, blah blah. You have heard it all before. But if she has a medical condition, that sounds like it would interfere.
> 
> What a conundrum.


She has fibromylgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. Both very subjective - not measurable - not obvious to the naked eye. I think that's where a lot of her conflict with our oldest d (11) comes in. She's become resentful that mom doesn't do what she used to - or that she doesn't do what other moms do.

I know she can do more, but I'm not sure how much more.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> *What do you do when you start to feel overwhelmed by it all?*
> 
> Working 8-10 hours a day
> Working more when needed
> ...



NG, it runs very deep this stuff, doesn’t it just? And it’s real. It’s very very real. It is probably exactly how you are experiencing your life. Well done for getting this far with your understanding of what your life experience is like for you.

I wonder how far away you’ve managed to get from your “ideal life”? When that distance is too great to bear any longer that is the time that the biggest changes in our life occur.

So if that is indeed the case you are in for a very big change in your life. Either that or your life will forever be in the short, medium and long term as you’ve now created it. Changes may come into your life for the better in the very much longer term. 

I reckon you have gone and made yourself a codependent. And you’ve done that by being “Ever More Nice”. Ever more patient and tolerant of the, essentially abuses of who you are as a person, from your wife. And all in the hope that she will change the behaviour you don't like!

The way out of all this? It is to be impatient and intolerant of the behaviour that your wife exhibits that you do not like. 

It’s a boundary thing. Much like R2s but I think you have a far worse dose of it.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NG, being extroverted I never understood my wife’s need for “alone time”. But I came to recognise it was her recharge time. Extroverts get recharged simply by being with other people. So it’s the opposites thing again.

When I was going through my stuff on occasions in my marriage I had the thought that if I cannot take care of my most fundamental core needs how on Earth can I take care of anyone else’s?

So get yourself some alone time and make it a regular thing. It’s good to have it in the home which having experienced it is I think the best place but go for second best if it’s not possible.

One things for certain, the world you leave while you are spending time alone is not going to collapse. In fact it may get somewhat better simply because you where not there when you could have been.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> She has fibromylgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. Both very subjective - not measurable - not obvious to the naked eye. I think that's where a lot of her conflict with our oldest d (11) comes in. She's become resentful that mom doesn't do what she used to - or that she doesn't do what other moms do.
> 
> I know she can do more, but I'm not sure how much more.


That really stinks. So it seems you feel that she is copping out, but there is not a lot you can do about it since you may be over estimating what can reasonably be done. I just don't see how that could NOT lead to resentment.

If I were HER, I would break it down into routines, doing a little bit at a time. But that is nothing YOU can do for her.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> NG, being extroverted I never understood my wife’s need for “alone time”. But I came to recognise it was her recharge time. Extroverts get recharged simply by being with other people. So it’s the opposites thing again.


 Everybody must be different then. My husband is definetely introverted but he Never needs this " alone time" being talked about on here. He is just a simple Home Buddy, prefers this over going out, partying & other excitement. The less people the better, but always family. 

If your wife is not able to keep up at home considering her painful condition, this will be REALLY tough on YOU & the family. Sounds like the kids already feel Mom is not pulling her weight and that has become an issue. You might have to sit down and be a little tough on the kids -if they are more capable & ask more of them. 

My husband only works 40 hrs- unless some extra overtime comes along. I do everything at home so when he comes home there is nothing to do at all -other than things I can not physically do. I want us to have total free time for anything when he is done at work. That is MY rule. My house would probably be a little cleaner if I got off this forum ! LOL

In our house, to make time "for him", sad to say, but MY kids have gotten the shaft now. WHere it used to be the other way around. You can't please everyone! Only so much time in the day. 

I used to be more focused on them, now they are on the backburner . I figure they play with each other (and FIGHT!). I always let them have friends over all the time, throw BIG parties, bonfires for them, what more can they ask for! Who wants to play with Mom & Dad anyway!! Maybe once a week we'll play a game with them. He helps them with homework and I take care of all of their "needs", cooking their meals, buying what they need, after school activities, Birthday party going, etc etc. 

Sounds like you are REALLY close to your kids? Do they need you as much as you feel they NEED you? That is the question.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sounds like you are REALLY close to your kids? Do they need you as much as you feel they NEED you? That is the question.


Bob - yes - I'm a co-dependent - or recovering Nice Guy. Its been a crazy month with moving my wife home, Holiday festivities, stuff with the kids, etc., etc. Since my boundaries aren't well defined or routinely enforced, maybe they get weaker as things get a little crazy. Just like a lot of other things, I think I need to practice enforcing boundaries until it becomes habit or second nature.

SA - I think I've found myself trying to compensate for my wife having pulled away from the kids - first while in nursing school, and then when she became sick. So, yes, I probably need to focus on helping them become more independent.

So - I need to spend more time alone, focus on my relationship, establish and enforce clear boundaries, teach my kids to become more independent, work with my wife to find out how she can help meet MY needs in spite of her condition. Oh yeah - and I want to exercise more too. And make sure I keep my job.

This is the point where I go to the library and check out 2 books (each) about: marriage/relationships, parenting, codependency, meditation, and some sort of motivational self-help kind of thing.

Weed and alcohol are actually sounding pretty good right now...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Add too much reading to your already overloaded list of things to do! Best luck to you NG.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Add too much reading to your already overloaded list of things to do! Best luck to you NG.


No - because when you check out THAT much stuff you end up reading NONE of it.

But I'd better mark my calendar to avoid any late fees.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

NG, I have never been a drug user but now *I'm* thinking weed and alcohol are sounding good! ;0 

Jogging, esp. trail jogging, has become my "me" time. I focus on breathing and it feels meditative. I also do a very moderate route, and never push. It's about fresh air and exercise; I'm not trying to become the next fitness supermodel (BTDT). After a jog I feel soooooo relaxed. The trick is not to get caught up in becoming a runner. I'm not knocking that at all; I'm just saying that simple jogging without adding an agenda to it can be very good, too, and I've found I like it better. But if it doesn't feel like "me" time to you, then it may not combine two of the things you need for yourself, which is what I was suggesting you try to do.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> NG, I have never been a drug user but now *I'm* thinking weed and alcohol are sounding good! ;0
> 
> Jogging, esp. trail jogging, has become my "me" time. I focus on breathing and it feels meditative. I also do a very moderate route, and never push. It's about fresh air and exercise; I'm not trying to become the next fitness supermodel (BTDT). After a jog I feel soooooo relaxed. The trick is not to get caught up in becoming a runner.


I think what I am reading here sounds like a meditative run, run in the moment experiencing the moment without the clutter of the GOAL. This strikes me as a really good way to combine the benefits of exercise, fresh air and mindful meditation as well as quiet alone time. Go, sister.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Bob - yes - I'm a co-dependent - or recovering Nice Guy. Its been a crazy month with moving my wife home, Holiday festivities, stuff with the kids, etc., etc. Since my boundaries aren't well defined or routinely enforced, maybe they get weaker as things get a little crazy. Just like a lot of other things, I think I need to practice enforcing boundaries until it becomes habit or second nature.



NG, I don’t know your kids ages. I do know they will learn very much more from how you behave in your day to day life than they ever will from what they are “taught”. We have to practice what we preach type of thing. It’s not do as I say, rather do as I do. It’s the latter that they “learn”.

The lessons we teach them simply by “being” go in at a deeply subconscious level and so become “learned behaviour” that some carry with them until the day they pass away. Others “rebel” and replace their learned behaviour with their own behaviour.

So if it is in fact true that you are forever nice, patient and tolerant, your children will be the same. Unless of course you’re breeding rebels!

Bob


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Non-confrontational behavior shaping. 

It goes like this. You do "less" stuff for W/kids. No one benefits if you burn out - in fact everything falls apart if that happens. 

When W and/or kids ask YOU for more, you repeat this mantra. "I would love to do "X", tell you what, if you can help me with "this" it will free up some time for me to do "X" with you". And then let your "requestor" decide whether what they are asking for is important enough for THEM to be your partner in getting the result they want. 

If you get the "well you seem to have plenty of time for "list of your stuff - including exercise" you run this script: "I truly wish I did not need to do "X" to remain physically/mentally healthy. Sadly I do. My responsibility to the family is all predicated on me staying healthy, sane and employed". 

You will likely get a lot of emotional noise at this point. 

And the best response to that is "I truly wish I could do everything you want without asking you for anything. I can't. So if you need me to do "X", you will do what I ask. If not, please accept that I am as disappointed with the current situation as you are. 

This moves you from the role of "seller" to "buyer". I am not suggesting this is easy - but it puts the burden on the rest of your family to help you, in order to enable you to do more for them.

I also need a certain amount of alone time. As does my W.



nice777guy said:


> No - because when you check out THAT much stuff you end up reading NONE of it.
> 
> But I'd better mark my calendar to avoid any late fees.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I forgot to mention that also, while at the library, I'll check out 4 or 5 Judo/martial arts books. These are the books that will make it into reading basket in the bathroom and actually get looked at!

Both girls and I were doing this two nights a week, so it somewhat counted as family time AND exercise. Youngest daughter has decided to drop out and do something different - which is probably good for a few reasons.

Not sure that this is "meditative" like jogging, but it certainly relieves stress, is helping me get into better shape, gives a sense of accomplishment, and counts towards "family" time.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM, you ought to write an article on boundaries/limit setting. You have it Spot On. There are many men and women out there that could use this skill.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Well done, NG. I was going to mention that simple jogging is something a lot of kids can do, as long as they aren't too young and the pace/terrain aren't too challenging for their age/size. But, sounds like you found your niche.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> "My responsibility to the family is all predicated on me staying healthy, sane and employed."


Perfect! I think I'll just reply to everything with that answer from now on!

And Bob - I've always thought that kids learn a lot more from what they see than what you tell them. So there are likely two things I'm struggling with
First - they've seen me being "overly helpful" to Mom and willing to do more than my fair share.
Second - they know I'm a "Nice Guy" who has problems saying no. Wanting to make people happy or keep the peace isn't only a marriage/relationship thing - it can also be a work thing or a parent thing.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Maybe we can "co-author" it. I find many of your posts to be exceptional. 






vthomeschoolmom said:


> MEM, you ought to write an article on boundaries/limit setting. You have it Spot On. There are many men and women out there that could use this skill.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NG. Sometimes life is a bit like this:

IF you can keep your head when all about you 
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: 

If you can make one heap of all your winnings 
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!


I found it was the things in my life that I would not tolerate that brought about the biggest change and defined exactly who I am at my very core. But I let it get to the situation where it was actually “impossible” for me to tolerate any more. I would have been a gibbering wreck of a man if I had.

Your N.U.T.s. once you have them! will define who you are both to yourself and others around you. But don’t be like me and get to the point where you cannot take any more. At least declare 3 N.U.T.s. before it does and use that as a learning process for both you and your family.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Maybe we can "co-author" it. I find many of your posts to be exceptional.


Holy cow! Alert the press! We agree about something! :smthumbup:

Just Kidding!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> Your N.U.T.s. once you have them! will define who you are both to yourself and others around you. But don’t be like me and get to the point where you cannot take any more. At least declare 3 N.U.T.s. before it does and use that as a learning process for both you and your family.


Thanks Bob.

So does this mean another book recommendation (Holding onto your N.U.Ts.)?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
Is your W consistently doing the "lifestyle" things that help her feel better: diet, exercise, sleep, etc. ?

This is often the paradox of CFS/fibromyalgia - the "more" you do of the right things the better you feel. The less you do the worse you feel physically and the more depressed you become.

We bought the "WII fit plus" for Christmas. It is fun and way better for us than the 2 hours of tv we were watching at night.




nice777guy said:


> I forgot to mention that also, while at the library, I'll check out 4 or 5 Judo/martial arts books. These are the books that will make it into reading basket in the bathroom and actually get looked at!
> 
> Both girls and I were doing this two nights a week, so it somewhat counted as family time AND exercise. Youngest daughter has decided to drop out and do something different - which is probably good for a few reasons.
> 
> Not sure that this is "meditative" like jogging, but it certainly relieves stress, is helping me get into better shape, gives a sense of accomplishment, and counts towards "family" time.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

If exercise for her is also something she needs/wants, netflix streams a bunch of good yoga vids as well as all manner of workout/aerobic vids.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> But I'd better mark my calendar to avoid any late fees.


 I see you mentioned a calendar. Maybe not helpful for time management but "Organization" of time .& others know what is happening many times ...

My life & family of 8 could not operate without calendars, I carry a 12-month pocket calendar everywhere I go & a HUGE Desk calendar hangs on my door in my kitchen. Kids & husband know where to look to see IF a certain day is free - if a new event can be schedueld in at a glance. Because of this, we never forget anything-unless we want too. Even returning those Library Books! 

This makes our Life so much easier - with this one going here, that one going there, pick him up this time, her that time. 

A studying of the Family calendar is second nature in our house. 

So you have such a set up at your house ? that you & her can pencil things in -you know what is happening with her, you , the kids -without even asking many times.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> If exercise for her is also something she needs/wants, netflix streams a bunch of good yoga vids as well as all manner of workout/aerobic vids.


If you have Comcast ONDemand, go into Exercise, a very nice Variety to choose from. This is what we use when we muster up the determination to exercise. We need to do it more too.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> NG,
> Is your W consistently doing the "lifestyle" things that help her feel better: diet, exercise, sleep, etc. ?
> 
> This is often the paradox of CFS/fibromyalgia - the "more" you do of the right things the better you feel. The less you do the worse you feel physically and the more depressed you become.
> ...


She's mainly relying on supplements right now.

From what I understand, a small amount of moderate exercise (something like the Wii Fit - which we do have) would definitely help her. Days like yesterday - when she overdoes it - can sometimes knock her down so to speak for 2 days.

So as I've said before, when she's excited about something (re-arranging the girls' rooms for new TVs) she finds the strength and energy. But she will often crash and burn afterwards.

But no, she isn't doing the recommended moderate exercise.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Thanks Bob.
> 
> So does this mean another book recommendation (Holding onto your N.U.Ts.)?



You haven't bought the book and you don't have any N.U.T.s.

I am truly amazed.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> You haven't bought the book and you don't have any N.U.T.s.
> 
> I am truly amazed.


How so? Did you have no N.U.T.s. until you bought the book? Does the book come with N.U.T.s.? Do they come in a separate package?

Obviously you've been in my shoes, otherwise why would YOU buy a book with that kind of title?

And I do have boundaries (or nuts or whatever). I just need to learn to communicate and enforce them in better ways.

And I still need to do some soul searching as to what I really want. I just have such a tendency to get stuck in my own head - I'm afraid I'll get hit by a bus before I ever feel like I've got this $hit nailed down. 

Another reason I like Judo - gives me a chance to actually DO something physical. Funny thing with forward rolls - I'm constantly questioning my technique. When I try to do it with what i think is the "correct" technique, I land on my shoulder and it hurts for a week (its actually a small shoulder separation). 

But if I just go with what feels right I seem to do just fine. I move a decent distance across the mat and come up facing the right direction.

"No mind"


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

nice777guy said:


> How so? Did you have no N.U.T.s. until you bought the book? Does the book come with N.U.T.s.? Do they come in a separate package?
> 
> Obviously you've been in my shoes, otherwise why would YOU buy a book with that kind of title?
> 
> ...


"Just Keep Swimming"


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Physical judo and emotional judo are the same. Someone asks you to do something that you can't do without being overextended. You use "their" forward momentum which is represented by their request - and pull them forward with:

I want to do that for you and I CAN if you are able to help me with X,Y,Z. 

And I always say "able" not willing. Willingness can be argued. Ableness cannot. 




nice777guy said:


> How so? Did you have no N.U.T.s. until you bought the book? Does the book come with N.U.T.s.? Do they come in a separate package?
> 
> Obviously you've been in my shoes, otherwise why would YOU buy a book with that kind of title?
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> How so? Did you have no N.U.T.s. until you bought the book? Does the book come with N.U.T.s.? Do they come in a separate package?
> 
> Obviously you've been in my shoes, otherwise why would YOU buy a book with that kind of title?
> 
> ...



NG, I have absolutely no wish to add anymore friction and discord into your life.

Have I been where you are? Not in exact same places and circumstances obviously. But you gotta believe in 40 years you find yourself in many “places” you wish just didn’t happen. One of those was my stbx’s affair. Another time I’ve been so depressed I actually had suicidal thoughts because of “all the weight I was carrying on my shoulders”. I just could not get my stbx to share the financial burden in my marriage no matter what I tried. So yes, I’ve been there. There are many that have walked your walk although in different circumstances and we all handle these things differently.

Did I have N.U.T.s. before? Most definitely not. I was way over tolerant and way too patient and it did me a lot of harm. A codependent Nice Guy. Do I wish I had N.U.T.s. before? I most certainly do. Not just for my own good but for the good of my family as well. I could of course recommend to you all the things I did wrong!

But you sure as heck aren’t going to improve your situation by continuing to do the same things.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AFEH said:


> NG, I have absolutely no wish to add anymore friction and discord into your life...
> 
> But you sure as heck aren’t going to improve your situation by continuing to do the same things.


Bob - no worries here.

I get the theories - about all of it - then I just get it all stuck in my head - kids, wife, my own sanity - sometimes I feel like a deer in headlights.

MEM - good analogy with the Judo and momentum. My therapist also used it - saying that I was learning how to "fall" properly in life as well in Judo.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Bob - no worries here.
> 
> I get the theories - about all of it - then I just get it all stuck in my head - kids, wife, my own sanity - sometimes I feel like a deer in headlights.
> 
> MEM - good analogy with the Judo and momentum. My therapist also used it - saying that I was learning how to "fall" properly in life as well in Judo.


I wanted to add that I am sincerely sorry that you are having a tough time right now. I do however see so many positives in you and what you are doing. Judo and wanting to start playing guitar again being two of them.

I think this time of year is tough for many of us. A time to "re-evaluate" if you will. You have also had a death blow from actions that your wife caused you and even though you two are taking steps towards fixing those problems, I think it seems like you worry about falling back in to the old patterns and that deep down you worry that she is not repairing the marriage as much as you want her to. Thoughts on this? :scratchhead:


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Sometimes I am wondering if those women who tire their husbands know about this: It is their responsibility to look after their men, it is important for their men to be healthy. their stable life comes from their exhausted husbands, if somethings happens to their husbands, their life will be shattered. 

Nagging, whining, *****ing, complaining, high expectation can all add stress on their men, and all these can have bad effects on their men's health. 

Not sharing chores can tire their men out, our body is like a computer, can't be over used. We need time to recharge, if we over use our body now, it only means we break sooner. When you don't have good health, you have nothing. 

I always shake my head when I see women treat their husbands poorly. In my opinion, women can live longer because their don't work as much as men do, and they don't get nagged like men do. I doubt it is because their genes.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Sometimes I am wondering if those women who tire their husbands know about this: It is their responsibility to look after their men, it is important for their men to be healthy. their stable life comes from their exhausted husbands, if somethings happens to their husbands, their life will be shattered.
> 
> Nagging, whining, *****ing, complaining, high expectation can all add stress on their men, and all these can have bad effects on their men's health.
> 
> ...


Studies have shown time and time again the reason why women live longer than men....regular doctor visits. It has nothing to do with not working as hard or not being *****ed at, it has to do with women getting regular checkups and stopping the medical issues before they become larger problems. A fence at the top of the hill vs. an ambulance at the bottom if you will.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Studies have shown time and time again the reason why women live longer than men....regular doctor visits. It has nothing to do with not working as hard or not being *****ed at, it has to do with women getting regular checkups and stopping the medical issues before they become larger problems. A fence at the top of the hill vs. an ambulance at the bottom if you will.


That's one of the reasons!  I agree!

But I still think they nag their husbands, but their husbands don't nag them. A lot of nagging can cause chest pain. 

And I think women's financial stress is less than men, men are the ones who provide more for the family! 

Please don't give me exceptions. I am talking about people in general!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> That's one of the reasons!  I agree!
> 
> But I still think they nag their husbands, but their husbands don't nag them. A lot of nagging can cause chest pain.
> 
> ...


Well I disagree with you in that husbands don't "nag" their wives. I think their approach is different but the overall effect is the same. I think alot of men take the opposite approach of nagging in that they totally avoid the situation/hit the bar/ stay late at work/etc. Take my husband, for instance. When he is upset with me or something I have done, instead of coming right out and saying why/telling me, he retreats in to his shell and ignores me. It is passive aggressive/conflict avoiding bs and it is just as destructive as a woman nagging/complaining. I suffer all the same as a man being yelled at by his wife. I think worse actually since my entire childhood was spent being totally ignored by my parents. So when my husband ignores me/doesn't talk with me/ doesn't respond (for me) it hurts, deeply. 
I certainly don't think nagging is exclusive to women. I think we all do it, we just have different approaches.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Well I disagree with you in that husbands don't "nag" their wives. I think their approach is different but the overall effect is the same. I think alot of men take the opposite approach of nagging in that they totally avoid the situation/hit the bar/ stay late at work/etc. Take my husband, for instance. When he is upset with me or something I have done, instead of coming right out and saying why/telling me, he retreats in to his shell and ignores me. It is passive aggressive/conflict avoiding bs and it is just as destructive as a woman nagging/complaining. I suffer all the same as a man being yelled at by his wife. I think worse actually since my entire childhood was spent being totally ignored by my parents. So when my husband ignores me/doesn't talk with me/ doesn't respond (for me) it hurts, deeply.
> I certainly don't think nagging is exclusive to women. I think we all do it, we just have different approaches.


Men who don't communicate suffer from inner pain and frustration, I don't think that's good for their health either. When my husband and I are upset with each other, we have to talk it out or yell it out, if we don't, I would have heavy chest, not a good feeling. When we fight, I try to lock our bedroom door or go out of the apartment, my husband will unlock the door and block me from going out, he won't let me rest until the conflict is over. I appreciate that! 

Sometimes some men don't know how to communicate, they think silence is the best way to solve problems, actually it isn't. It only prolongs the problem, and both of the husband and wife suffer longer from frustration!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> respond (for me) it hurts, deeply.
> I certainly don't think nagging is exclusive to women. I think we all do it, we just have different approaches.


I think men are not sensitive with small things, and women nag more, women complain more. 

For example, men come home late, men go out with their friends, men forget the wives' birthdays, men don't get the right gifts.......
then women nag, whine, and complain...........

I believe it is women who usually start a fight, not men!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> I wanted to add that I am sincerely sorry that you are having a tough time right now. I do however see so many positives in you and what you are doing. Judo and wanting to start playing guitar again being two of them.
> 
> I think this time of year is tough for many of us. A time to "re-evaluate" if you will. You have also had a death blow from actions that your wife caused you and even though you two are taking steps towards fixing those problems, I think it seems like you worry about falling back in to the old patterns and that deep down you worry that she is not repairing the marriage as much as you want her to. Thoughts on this? :scratchhead:


I don't know. I think its just been a bit crazy over the last month. I think I'm more afraid that I will fall back into old patterns. Creating and enforcing boundaries is much easier when you have a physical distance between you and you feel you've really got nothing to lose.

Also frustrated because everyone in the family has puked at least once over the last 7 days. Was a good, but rough Christmas.

Came home tonight and she had folded quite a bit of laundry. She had to deal with a service call from Directv. She said she'd played one of the new Wii games with the kids today.

That's actually a pretty good day.

Like I said above, maybe I just need to let the holiday hubub settle down a bit before I start jumping to any conclusions.

And yes - we die sooner because you drive us crazy!!!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I don't know. I think its just been a bit crazy over the last month. I think I'm more afraid that I will fall back into old patterns. Creating and enforcing boundaries is much easier when you have a physical distance between you and you feel you've really got nothing to lose.
> 
> Also frustrated because everyone in the family has puked at least once over the last 7 days. Was a good, but rough Christmas.
> 
> ...


NG, you know I adore you, right? You don't die earlier because of women, you die earlier because you stop going for regular checkups and you stop finding your passion.
Find your passion and stick with it. Nobody and I mean nobody should give up their passion because they are married.
He used to be a competitive racquetball player and nationally ranked. He hasn't picked up a racquet in 4 years. WTH? He to this day will tell me that being with "family" was more important, yet he replaced a computer with a court. 
Our boys are almost 18 and 13. I doubt they are keeping him from his passion. Bottom line is, it was an excuse. 
Stick with your passion. Embrace it. 
I got back in to fencing. I love it!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Sometimes I am wondering if those women who tire their husbands know about this: It is their responsibility to look after their men, it is important for their men to be healthy.


:rofl:


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

NiceGuy, is there any way your wife could, or would be interested in, picking up some freelance work on the side? It might give her something to do that was challenging, and she might enjoy it and feel proud for making a contribution. This is also the type of work that you can do sitting at a desk or lying down. It's also great because you take on as much work as you can handle; if you need a break, you can take one. You can write 1 article per month or hundreds. It's very flexible.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

lime said:


> NiceGuy, is there any way your wife could, or would be interested in, picking up some freelance work on the side? It might give her something to do that was challenging, and she might enjoy it and feel proud for making a contribution. This is also the type of work that you can do sitting at a desk or lying down. It's also great because you take on as much work as you can handle; if you need a break, you can take one. You can write 1 article per month or hundreds. It's very flexible.


She should be doing something. Another option would be to do some volunteer work.

Part of her problem is that she is VERY social - but she doesn't feel good and is depressed, so she doesn't leave the house. I believe that's what lead to all of the online attention seeking.

I honestly think that she's afraid to try anything for fear of failing. I know that she couldn't do a 12 hour night shift, and I'm not sure that she should be giving out medications if she's not feeling 100% sharp. But there's gotta to be something in between 12 hour shifts and sitting on a laptop doing little to nothing all day - some happy medium.

I would even be happy if she embraced the stay-at-home mom role. We are doing "ok" financially. But she truly doesn't seem to get the same joy from being around the kids that she used to get. And it might not satisfy her need for social interaction - although she could get involved with things at school.

She gets very emotional any time I've tried to talk to her about this type of thing. And I usually back off without really pushing.

Brennan - don't care what you and your fancy studies say. You women kill us - very, very slowly. And we KNOW it!!! We just haven't figured out how quite yet...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

NG,

Depressed people are selfish, they only think about themselves. They are not happy because they focus too much on themselves. 

If they think more about others, and do more things for others, they don't have so much time feeling sorry for themselves. 

They have too much time, and they focus too much on negative things, they don't have energy because they exhaust their energy feeling sad. When people are sad, never expect them to do anything! 

I don't know what your wife is thinking. From your posts, I don't think her health issue prevents her from doing anything. 

Maybe taking her to a church would help her. Get more spiritual food, and start thinking more about others and do more things for others.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Brennan - don't care what you and your fancy studies say. You women kill us - very, very slowly. And we KNOW it!!! We just haven't figured out how quite yet...


I know you are trying to be funny. But I do get concerned that you focus on women blame. When you believe someone/thing is to blame, you run the risk of allowing the feeling to keep you from doing YOUR best and what YOU can do.

Is it true? Not true? For my part, who cares. What GOOD does it do you to focus thus? 

And perhaps you don't. Perhaps I am over reading.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Maybe taking her to a church would help her. Get more spiritual food, and start thinking more about others and do more things for others.


After what the missus and I has just been through... NO WAY!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> After what the missus and I has just been through... NO WAY!


Dude,

There is a lot of wisdom in the Bible, people who are smart take the nutrition, ignore the poison! 

His wife is different from yours. His doesn't even go out, she needs to be around positive people. People who go to churches are still more positive about life, my experience! Not all people are brainwashed, we just need to watch out!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

VT - I'm really just kidding. If I had to guess, I would say that I will probably live longer than my wife. Just a hunch.

My wife quit going to church several years ago, but the kids and I still go sometimes. This was my wife's childhood church and when I go, I sit next to my in-laws. 

My wife got upset with the way a female pastor was treated after she spoke out at a conference in favor of gay marriage. She saw an ugly side to some good people she'd known her whole life. The pastor resigned as a result of the conflict.

She's also admitted that she is mad at God for giving her fibro while also questioning his existence.

On a small but positive note, she "friended" our pastor on FB yesterday.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I know, I know, just, be choosy and careful with some churches yeah lol.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Our church does a lot of good community service activities and basically survives on fundraisers. I take my kids so that they can be exposed to that sort of "giving" or charity. Overall its a good group of people to expose my children to.

If they happen to pick something up from the sermon from time to time, then that's alright too.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> VT - I'm really just kidding. If I had to guess, I would say that I will probably live longer than my wife. Just a hunch.
> 
> My wife quit going to church several years ago, but the kids and I still go sometimes. This was my wife's childhood church and when I go, I sit next to my in-laws.
> 
> ...


NG,

I don't believe in GOD's existence either, but I know clearly that there is a lot for us to learn in the Bible. I read the whole Bible twice, underlined all the scriptures I find great, I changed a lot. It teaches us to understand about ourselves and people around us. It teaches us to be humble and be loving. It teaches us to more giving and less complaining! Sometimes other people cause us stumble, but it shows that we are still too naive about people. 

We study the Bible to refine ourselves, to have a better understanding about this life, to have a more peaceful mind about this life, not because of paradise or heaven.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Our church does a lot of good community service activities and basically survives on fundraisers. I take my kids so that they can be exposed to that sort of "giving" or charity. Overall its a good group of people to expose my children to.
> 
> If they happen to pick something up from the sermon from time to time, then that's alright too.


My son goes to church every Sunday, churches are still good places for children to grow up. I don't worry about my son, he is becoming a wonderful boy. Mature and responsible. The Bible teaches us to be good people. We want to be good people. And the Bible sets a lot of good boundaries for us. We stay in the circle, we have a safe life, we stay out of the circle, we face dangers. The moral standards in the Bible are really something we want our kids to have. 

We just need to be careful that we can still think for ourselves! Don't let people influence us!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> NG,
> 
> I don't believe in GOD's existence either, but I know clearly that there is a lot for us to learn in the Bible. I read the whole Bible twice, underlined all the scriptures I find great, I changed a lot. It teaches us to understand about ourselves and people around us. It teaches us to be humble and be loving. It teaches us to more giving and less complaining! Sometimes other people cause us stumble, but it shows that we are still too naive about people.
> 
> We study the Bible to refine ourselves, to have a better understanding about this life, to have a more peaceful mind about this life, not because of paradise or heaven.


To me, the Bible - especially the New Testament - is like a good set of fables. I do believe in God or some sort of universal energy force (almost more like Mother Nature really), but I think that organized religion can actually block you from that connection sometimes. 

Never liked the idea that I had to go to a special building (a church) on Sunday mornings to connect to my maker, as I feel I can do that any time, any place. And all the different types of organized religious organizations just seem to divide people and cause conflict.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> To me, the Bible - especially the New Testament - is like a good set of fables. I do believe in God or some sort of universal energy force (almost more like Mother Nature really), but I think that organized religion can actually block you from that connection sometimes.
> 
> Never liked the idea that I had to go to a special building (a church) on Sunday mornings to connect to my maker, as I feel I can do that any time, any place. And all the different types of organized religious organizations just seem to divide people and cause conflict.


If you are good at self studying, reading the Bible at home is actually better. I did all the reading myself. 

Organized religion only cares about their membership, it is actually very selfish of them, on the contrary of what the Bible is teaching. And people are still people, they want power. 

Let's count your wife's blessing. She has such a wonderful husband, she doesn't need to go to work, she doesn't need to compete with the world. I am sure she has caring parents! I am sure she has a nice place to live. What doesn't she have?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I don't know. I think its just been a bit crazy over the last month. I think I'm more afraid that I will fall back into old patterns. Creating and enforcing boundaries is much easier when you have a physical distance between you and you feel you've really got nothing to lose.



There’s wisdom in your words NG.

Though I don’t see the need for a “physical distance” before establishing personal boundaries. They’re not a physical distance thing. In fact they are the opposite of that. They are emotional and psychological boundaries there to protect our heart, soul and spirit.

I’ve been trying to urge and somewhat inspire you to create your personal boundaries BEFORE you feel you have nothing to lose. Otherwise you may be just like me and your personal boundaries will be issued as an ultimatum. It’s my way or the highway type of thing.

My ultimatums came after a nervous breakdown when I just couldn’t take anymore. So they were quite literally erected for self protection. I don’t regret what I did for one minute, it either had to end or my stbx had to step up to the mark and change her behaviour.

But. But if I’d had personal boundaries in the first place and given my stbx time to understand them and get used to them and “behave differently” then I think it more than likely we’d still be living happily together.

Bob


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

NG, there is always a ton more work during the holidays not only b/c of holiday festivities, but b/c everyone is home making messes all day! I'm sure you understand why stay at home moms are cheering on the street corners that first day "back to school" in the fall? God, you love 'em and you miss 'em, but MAN are they a lot of work! Wouldn't have it any other way, of course.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bob,
Your post reflects a very high level of self awareness. A long marriage becomes like an oil tanker. There is a tremendous amount of emotional momentum and precedent. Attempting to turn it like a speedboat typically fractures the hull. 

That said - like an oil tanker a steady firm pressure on the wheel WILL allow you to change direction over time. 

NG,
I truly believe the most difficult aspect of your situation is that you truly cannot know how your W subjectively "feels". How tired she is. How depressed she is - because she is tired. How much MORE tired she is because being depressed amplifies the physical problem. 

I do think a loving supportive tone coupled with the consistent message of "if you can do X, it will free me up to do Y, which is something we both want" will allow her to create a positive association between activity and a positive result that she wants. I also think that if you always just "step up" she will do "less" and will ultimately feel less happy overall AND with you. 





AFEH said:


> There’s wisdom in your words NG.
> 
> Though I don’t see the need for a “physical distance” before establishing personal boundaries. They’re not a physical distance thing. In fact they are the opposite of that. They are emotional and psychological boundaries there to protect our heart, soul and spirit.
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Why do people feel depressed? 

Some people are depressed because their life isn't the way they wanted. 

Some people are depressed because of being hurt in the past. 

Some people are depressed because of losing loved ones( one good reason)

Some people are depressed because they are bored, they have nothing to do! 

Why aren't busy people depressed? They just don't have time to feel sorry for themselves!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> NG,
> I truly believe the most difficult aspect of your situation is that you truly cannot know how your W subjectively "feels". How tired she is. How depressed she is - because she is tired. How much MORE tired she is because being depressed amplifies the physical problem.
> 
> I do think a loving supportive tone coupled with the consistent message of "if you can do X, it will free me up to do Y, which is something we both want" will allow her to create a positive association between activity and a positive result that she wants. I also think that if you always just "step up" she will do "less" and will ultimately feel less happy overall AND with you.


Yes - if it were cancer, or if she were paralyzed, I would naturally step up out of necessity.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Bob,
> Your post reflects a very high level of self awareness. A long marriage becomes like an oil tanker. There is a tremendous amount of emotional momentum and precedent. Attempting to turn it like a speedboat typically fractures the hull.
> 
> That said - like an oil tanker a steady firm pressure on the wheel WILL allow you to change direction over time.
> ...



I like you’re analogy. I used similar with software development processes. Got this big ship of a corporation heading for the 300 ft waterfall and all they’ve done is attached a few fishing lines to turn it away from a certain plunge. I was a key member of external teams that helped turn them around. Couldn’t do it with my marriage though. I’ve since found out I was selling my wares to someone who didn’t want to buy! Even though I think now she’s changed her mind. It’s a strange world.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Volunteer work sounds like it would be great for her then. Could she volunteer in a library? Or somewhere she wouldn't be running around all day? Libraries could be really fun to volunteer in--relaxing and quiet, but still fun with kids' storytime, etc. and not to mention you learn so much!

There are also a few online communities of freelancers and if you live in a big city, she might be able to connect with a few and meet in person, or go to a coffee place together and work. This is a little more far-fetched of an idea though, but it does happen.

Either way, she probably needs to get out of the house. Can she volunteer with the kids' school? Take an art class with a local community college? Are there any women in your area who stay at home but have side businesses making gift baskets, purses, jewelry, etc? There's gotta be something!  If not, she might be able to start something with a few of her friends or other stay at home moms in the area. Like once a week, get together with all the kids and work on some craftsy thing to sell around the neighborhood--either for income or for donations for a charity. The kids might enjoy it too. I LOVED doing stuff like that when I was younger (and still do!)


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

lime said:


> Volunteer work sounds like it would be great for her then. Could she volunteer in a library? Or somewhere she wouldn't be running around all day? Libraries could be really fun to volunteer in--relaxing and quiet, but still fun with kids' storytime, etc. and not to mention you learn so much!
> 
> There are also a few online communities of freelancers and if you live in a big city, she might be able to connect with a few and meet in person, or go to a coffee place together and work. This is a little more far-fetched of an idea though, but it does happen.
> 
> Either way, she probably needs to get out of the house. Can she volunteer with the kids' school? Take an art class with a local community college? Are there any women in your area who stay at home but have side businesses making gift baskets, purses, jewelry, etc? There's gotta be something!  If not, she might be able to start something with a few of her friends or other stay at home moms in the area. Like once a week, get together with all the kids and work on some craftsy thing to sell around the neighborhood--either for income or for donations for a charity. The kids might enjoy it too. I LOVED doing stuff like that when I was younger (and still do!)



Wonderful suggestions.

Meaningless and won't happen if NG has to be the driver. His wife needs to be taking steps to find some direction in her life.

Whenever I tried to 'help' my ex figure out what she wants to be when she grows up, it got turned around into being my issue.

Wasn't my issue. Isn't NG's issue ... we simply had to deal with the fallout from the issue.

It's frustrating. My ex didn't have fibro as a contributing factor.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Wonderful suggestions.
> 
> Meaningless and won't happen if NG has to be the driver. His wife needs to be taking steps to find some direction in her life.
> 
> ...



It’s a truth that things become clear some while after separation. It’s like when we’re in the middle of it all we truly get lost and just can’t see the wood for the trees. We stumble around and just can’t see any light or the way out no matter what or how hard we try. Reminds me of a joke. “I thought I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. But it was somebody with a torch trying to find his way out”.

But when we’ve been separated for a while, we begin to build a picture of the wood in our minds as though we can see the whole wood from a few thousand feet up and we can see the paths we took and the dead ends we came across and we finally understand why we came across those dead ends. Then we try to act like a guide, showing others a way out of their particularly wood while preserving what it is that is precious to them in their marriage.

Bob


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bob,

I hope you will stay.

If you choose to move on, you will be missed.

Just put this on a diet.

I think I need to do the same.

JD


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