# Abandoned



## socal04 (Apr 28, 2011)

Any men out there feel abandoned by their wife? no sex for 6 months.. relationship issues but we are cordial.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

socal04 said:


> Any men out there feel abandoned by their wife? no sex for 6 months.. relationship issues but we are cordial.




There are probably more men in sexless marriages than who voted for Trump. 

What do you want to know?


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## newmarriageguy (Dec 16, 2016)

I feel lack of communication, wife acts like she doesn't give a f**k when I get upset about common household things, finance issues. Everything is like I have to provide period and just me. Sec life whenever she's in the mood almost never I'm always the one who has to look for her. Other things she's always on her Facebook acct, chatting with other people whom she definitely gives more attention than me. So yes abandoned could be the right way to describe it. I wish I could change things in my case as well for the sake of my children and matrimony. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## socal04 (Apr 28, 2011)

after 6 months of no intimacy it feels like she doesnt give a crap.. im basically out there and i need to find a way to meet my own sexual needs.. like she exited stage left... and honestly its like who does without sex for 6 months anyway.. its wierd to me.


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## socal04 (Apr 28, 2011)

sorry man


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

Sometimes a couple of years would go by without sex...that's part of the reason he's almost my ex! It really does feel like abandonment at times. It's awful


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

newmarriageguy said:


> I feel lack of communication, wife acts like she doesn't give a f**k when I get upset about common household things, finance issues. Everything is like I have to provide period and just me. Sec life whenever she's in the mood almost never I'm always the one who has to look for her. Other things she's always on her Facebook acct, chatting with other people whom she definitely gives more attention than me. So yes abandoned could be the right way to describe it. I wish I could change things in my case as well for the sake of my children and matrimony.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Are you talking about your wife or mine? Same here.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

socal04 said:


> after 6 months of no intimacy it feels like she doesnt give a crap.. im basically out there and i need to find a way to meet my own sexual needs.. like she exited stage left... and honestly its like who does without sex for 6 months anyway.. its wierd to me.


If you approach it as if "sex is the problem" then you are going to hurt your chances. Obviously a lot more information is needed to discern what is going on (or not going on). That said, there are a lot of reasons that couples go without sex for 6 or more months. There are good reasons that sex could be in a slump for far longer. What we need to understand is what your reasons are. Then, we can address those issues, most likely alleviating the issue.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Why do you men sound so hopeless? Take charge of your marriage. First step is to be a good communicator. This is one area that we can all use some improvements in. Read "His Needs Her Needs" and gently broach the issues with her in a non-confrontational way. We can't read minds so just ask her what you can do to be a better husband to her. If she's cheating, then throw her azz to the curb, but if she's not, then work to make the marriage better. Don't grow old together as bitter and resentful spouses. It seems many people coast through their marriage after that walk down the aisle. If there's absolutely nothing she says you can do, then give her an amicable divorce and find someone who's more compatible to you.

And if you've let yourself go, then for the love of Pete: hit the gym! Overhaul your wardrobe. Do something! Don't accept this as your fate. What made your wives fall for you in the first place?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

newmarriageguy said:


> I feel lack of communication, wife acts like she doesn't give a f**k when I get upset about common household things, finance issues. Everything is like I have to provide period and just me. Sec life whenever she's in the mood almost never I'm always the one who has to look for her. Other things she's always on her Facebook acct, chatting with other people whom she definitely gives more attention than me. So yes abandoned could be the right way to describe it. I wish I could change things in my case as well for the sake of my children and matrimony.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The question I have for you is whether or not you have adapted well to this challenge. We can be confronted with a literal hurdle, taking a maladaptive approach instead of several obvious solutions. The problem tends to be that we feel victimized, requiring that "she" gets the blame and/or must be the one that is wrong. Already, the relationship has taken an approach that is not inclusive of workable solutions.

You can change things, but the levers available to you are not necessarily obvious or in your comfort zone.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sometimes that works. Sometimes not. Some of the posters have tried everything, but their partners (men or women) are Low Desire or asexual. 

I've communicated - she has said "no". She has no complaints at all about me, she just doesn't want sex - thinks normal people rarely have sex and I'm strange for wanting it. I'm considered quite attractive by other women - if I wanted sex outside of marriage, it would not be a problem. 

To the OP. Its really miserable being with someone who doesn't want sex. 

Has she said why she doesn't want sex, or is she just generally low libido? If the second, its unlikely to get better. Leave. Cheat, Live like a monk. That's your unfortunate choice. Sucks ( or presumably doesn't....). 

I gave up trying to fix it after 30 years. 





becareful2 said:


> Why do you men sound so hopeless? Take charge of your marriage. First step is to be a good communicator. This is one area that we can all use some improvements in. Read "His Needs Her Needs" and gently broach the issues with her in a non-confrontational way. We can't read minds so just ask her what you can do to be a better husband to her. If she's cheating, then throw her azz to the curb, but if she's not, then work to make the marriage better. Don't grow old together as bitter and resentful spouses. It seems many people coast through their marriage after that walk down the aisle. If there's absolutely nothing she says you can do, then give her an amicable divorce and find someone who's more compatible to you.
> 
> And if you've let yourself go, then for the love of Pete: hit the gym! Overhaul your wardrobe. Do something! Don't accept this as your fate. What made your wives fall for you in the first place?


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

It's not just men who are the victims of a sexless marriage. There are plenty of women, too.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Sometimes that works. Sometimes not. *Some of the posters have tried everything*, but their partners (men or women) are Low Desire or asexual.
> ...
> I gave up trying to fix it after 30 years.


Thirty years? Have you spent a year or so...praying? I mean, the get-down-on-your-knees-and-humble-yourself-before-God type of praying? When all else fails, what do you have to lose? I'm sorry but thirty years is a very long time.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

prunus said:


> It's not just men who are the victims of a sexless marriage. There are plenty of women, too.




Yes and we should all hook up.


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Yes and we should all hook up.


So not ready for hookups. Too many friends are trying to hook me up.


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## socal04 (Apr 28, 2011)

years??


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## socal04 (Apr 28, 2011)

prunus said:


> It's not just men who are the victims of a sexless marriage. There are plenty of women, too.


the folk withholding sex i wonder what they are expecting.. the other person is going to eventually get thier needs satisified. its selfish


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Sometimes that works. Sometimes not. Some of the posters have tried everything, but their partners (men or women) are Low Desire or asexual.


Did they actually try everything? Did they try it in the right manner? Many who try "everything" explicitly complained or attempted general advice with the implicit backing of a complaint.


I dislike those types of answers because they are debilitating to relationships. More often than not, it is an untrue claim. More often than not (again), the pathway to sex is obscured by issues of various idealizations of what constitutes fairness.


> I've communicated - she has said "no". She has no complaints at all about me, she just doesn't want sex - thinks normal people rarely have sex and I'm strange for wanting it. I'm considered quite attractive by other women - if I wanted sex outside of marriage, it would not be a problem.


Not that it is "the" answer, but many woman don't voice complaints that they do have.




> To the OP. Its really miserable being with someone who doesn't want sex.
> 
> I gave up trying to fix it after 30 years.


Her innate qualities are things that we accepted as part of her romantic offer - the implicit contract she entered into. It being a problem doesn't necessarily imply a problem for her, but indicates a decision-making and coping flaw on the other end. The very common "LD" attribution that is thrown about this forum shows how ridiculous the assertion is (assuming it is fundamental vs. circumstantial).


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Hell yes, I was abandoned!

Abandoned in that my RSXW yearned to go banging bones with a couple of her ex-BF's, as she'll undoubtedly tell you after she was led there by the "Ghost of "Skankdom Past," all to reexperience cheap thrills from her sordid past!*


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Try 4+ years of 100% no sex. Once kids got over 5yrs, I lost half my net worth and divorced. Got laid the night after I separated and haven't looked back.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In many cases they believe that limited sex a few times a year is completely normal. That movies and stories wildly exaggerate how much sex people have. Some feel that sex is abusive / demeaning (usually to women but sometimes to men). Mostly though it seems that they just don't think about it. I remember once telling my wife it had been 3 months. She seemed surprised, but sad that we had been pretty busy with other stuff.... If told more often, there is always some valid excuse for not having sex *now*. 




socal04 said:


> the folk withholding sex i wonder what they are expecting.. the other person is going to eventually get thier needs satisified. its selfish


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You can never know that *everything* has been tried. Many people in this situation believe that they have tried all reasonable solutions. 

You may think that sex is a fundamental part of a romantic relationship. Not everyone does. 




Relationship Teacher said:


> Did they actually try everything? Did they try it in the right manner? Many who try "everything" explicitly complained or attempted general advice with the implicit backing of a complaint.
> 
> 
> I dislike those types of answers because they are debilitating to relationships. More often than not, it is an untrue claim. More often than not (again), the pathway to sex is obscured by issues of various idealizations of what constitutes fairness.
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its a very reasonable suggestion for many people. Not appropriate for me personally though. - but that is a very different topic.



becareful2 said:


> Thirty years? Have you spent a year or so...praying? I mean, the get-down-on-your-knees-and-humble-yourself-before-God type of praying? When all else fails, what do you have to lose? I'm sorry but thirty years is a very long time.


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## Lonelywife777 (Dec 17, 2016)

I go unnoticed a lot of the time by my husband. We have been married for 9 years. Sex is maybe once a week if that. It is like he does it for me so that I won't complain about not getting any. He is laying right beside me now, he rather get in bed and go to sleep.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

socal04 said:


> after 6 months of no intimacy it feels like she doesnt give a crap.. im basically out there and i need to find a way to meet my own sexual needs.. like she exited stage left... and honestly its like who does without sex for 6 months anyway.. its wierd to me.


Have you said this to her, in these words. "I feel abandoned by you, in this respect wife, please talk to me and tell me why this is not an important part of our relationship." Now she may have some legitimate reasons for not wanting sex, and you have to not be defensive and if she does work on them. It could also be she is just insecure at the moment, then it is your job to remind her how hot she is. However if it is just that she is lazy and doesn't care that this is a big part of the marriage for you then you will need to assess that. You have a right to want sex in your marriage and 6 months is a very long time. 

One other thing and it has to be said, make sure there is no one else. A lot of times when this happens it's because the woman has started to bond to someone else and having sex with you would be cheating on this new person. I hate that I have to write that but this is the society we live in.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Yes and we should all hook up.


I assume you mean after divorcing your spouse right blue? :laugh:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Did they actually try everything?


"Try" is a two way street in marriage. Just because they didn't hit the exact word or phrase or do exactly what the other party wants doesn't mean that it isn't the offending parties fault. "Love and honor", remember? That means when your spouse says to you, this is important how can we fix it, you work to fix it. By having the courage to say "we need to fix this" the offended spouse has honored the agreement. The other spouse needs to try as well to honor their end. If they refuse then the agreement is broached and made void. 

I often find with your answers treat relationships and people like a puzzle with an exact key open the box. This comes off like you telling the offended party that they are not doing good enough when there really no way to know this. He at least is trying. This doesn't seem to me to be an effective way to Teach. It's a relationship that required both parties working for the greater good, human beings can't be solved, they need to be worked with, but they need to be willing to work. When one party in good faith tries to fix the problem, a good spouse should reciprocate, even if it's not exactly what the want. 

So he can only speak to her about how he feels and see her response, he can then act accordingly. She is an adult there doesn't need to be any mystery in what she wants, he is an adult he can either try to fix it or if there is nothing to fix in her mind make decisions accordingly. It's really just that simple, "pathways and idealizations" just complicate the process.


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> Thirty years? Have you spent a year or so...praying? I mean, the get-down-on-your-knees-and-humble-yourself-before-God type of praying? When all else fails, what do you have to lose? I'm sorry but thirty years is a very long time.


I hung around for over 20 years longer than I should have. I wasn't praying. In fact, STBXH used church as a cover up and I still struggle with faith to this day. But, I hoped and I thought it was best for the kids. I was completely wrong. It was NOT best for them. Looking back, I realize how stupid I was. But, I do understand why people stick around so long.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

if you want constructive ideas, you have to tell us a WHOLE lot more about her, you, how you communicate, her age, what drugs she takes, and on and on.

From what you have told us, all we can say is sorry dude, watch some porn


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

sokillme said:


> "Try" is a two way street in marriage. Just because they didn't hit the exact word or phrase or do exactly what the other party wants doesn't mean that it isn't the offending parties fault. "Love and honor", remember? That means when your spouse says to you, this is important how can we fix it, you work to fix it. By having the courage to say "we need to fix this" the offended spouse has honored the agreement. The other spouse needs to try as well to honor their end. If they refuse then the agreement is broached and made void.


It is important for mutual effort, indeed. That said, we live in a world where idealizations are not necessarily reality. Each partner is very likely to fail to meet the agreement, at some point.



> I often find with your answers treat relationships and people like a puzzle with an exact key open the box. This comes off like you telling the offended party that they are not doing good enough when there really no way to know this.


That is not a good interpretation. Individuals are at least as irrational as they are rational. Injecting "should", "needs" into various disagreements is usually maladaptive. It isn't as if individuals need a key, it is that we need to treat them with the understanding that there are good ways to get through to them and bad ways to get through to them. Contrast that with this "should" work and that "should" work. There is only what does and does not work. We have encoding and decoding to contend with, made further difficult by emotions and the ever-present unconscious mind's influence.



> He at least is trying.


I made an analogy two days ago to a weight-lifter at a dumbell rack. In life, one is well-advised to go to the area of the rack that they have power over. This means one narrows the rack to the 2.5 lb weights to maybe 90 lb. We have already excluded the weights that we have no control over and can only impose harm. Next, one is well-advised to ignore the weights that are too light: they will not grant the desired outcome of increased muscle mass and strength. In this example, we wave a working range of 75-90 lbs, or so (for one exercise type), out of all of those different options.





> This doesn't seem to me to be an effective way to Teach. It's a relationship that required both parties working for the greater good, human beings can't be solved, they need to be worked with, but they need to be willing to work. When one party in good faith tries to fix the problem, a good spouse should reciprocate, even if it's not exactly what the want.


If I told and individual that their partner should or needs to sleep with them, then I have emboldened their stance, making the problem worse. I teach individuals how to get the problem resolved. I live in a world where only one individual is willing to work on the relationship, in many cases. When the other partner is falling short or refusing altogether, ideals do nothing but ensure the problem persists.




> So he can only speak to her about how he feels and see her response, he can then act accordingly. She is an adult there doesn't need to be any mystery in what she wants, he is an adult he can either try to fix it or if there is nothing to fix in her mind make decisions accordingly. It's really just that simple, "pathways and idealizations" just complicate the process.


More idealizations.

There doesn't need to be a mystery, but there always is. I have to problem-solve in the world of mysteries, irrational behavior, limbic hijackings, and even temporary psychosis. None of these things should happen, but they always do.

Whether there is something to fix depends on whether it is fundamental or circumstantial. Even if it is fundamental, there is room for some compromise. Most of the time it is circumstantial.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

socal04 said:


> Any men out there feel abandoned by their wife?* no sex for 6 months.*. relationship issues but we are cordial.



How many years have you been married?


What are the relationship issues?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

I thought it'd help to add information that illuminates the depth to this common problem. Regarding sex-related insecurities, men are considerably more focused on their genitals and performance, while women are concerned mostly with their body image (Cash & Smolak, 2011). When we view this dysfunctional thought collectively, we see very similar effects across the gender divide. Women suffer from low desire and increased difficulty in achieving orgasm (Weaver & Byers, 2013). Men may achieve an erection, but fail to ejaculate. Alternatively, there can be difficulty in achieving/maintaining an erection, which may or may not coincide with premature ejaculation. Likewise, this can feed into low desire.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Check your phone bill


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I took this to mean that the group of us should hook up online and chat/commiserate about this!



sokillme said:


> I assume you mean after divorcing your spouse right blue? :laugh:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Yes and we should all hook up.


Reminds me of standing on the river bank where someone on the "other side" chunked a big rock in.

Two minutes later the ripples hit my side of the shore. Now I am tainted by the Warm, Red, Blushing Tide.

Problem? That is a ripple...........what we have here is a seismic shift in some seasoned TAM posters outlook on intimacy needs. Personal boundaries have been lowered.

Posters hit the "like" button saying "OH YEAH"..... Let all of us like minded TAMMERS become underground Swinging Chads by caressing and "turning on" the Like Button Voting Tab.

Wishful thinking? Wistful thinking? 

This is licentious incrementalism. We slowly get boiled by our own warm desire. I feel it stronger than most. A hormone thing.

I hit the like button too!


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I am a firm believer that when sex goes stone cold dead in a marriage barring the exception of a medically diagnosed issue the subject of infedilety should discreetly be examined by the Rufused Partner.

I suggest you discreetly start examining.

Start with her phone bill. Does she keep a code on her phone that you dont know about? 

Is the phone constantly attached to her hip including bathroom breaks?

Has she been going out with so called friends or staying back late at work more reguarly than usual?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Did they actually try everything? Did they try it in the right manner? Many who try "everything" explicitly complained or attempted general advice with the implicit backing of a complaint.


You are being too literal. Saying I did "everything" does not mean every possible action under the sun. It means he did everything we would consider reasonable, and that is close enough to "everything".

I will take a personal example. My ex admitted (near the end of our marriage) that she never really wanted a vibrant sex life with me; she just said she did because she knew if she told me how she really felt about sex I would not have married her (and she's right).

Rather than admit she behaved badly, she insisted her behavior was justified (she deserved a soft married life after a rough childhood). To her, I should have been happy doing things her way (paying all bills, doing most housework, and expecting zero sex) and just having her around should have been reward enough.

Of course I did not agree to exist on those terms. So, did I literally do everything physically possible? No. Does failure to live under her terms mean that I did not "try everything" to save our relationship? Of course not! It only means that whatever I refused to do is that which was objectively unfair.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> There are good reasons that sex could be in a slump for far longer.


Yes there are good reasons a marriage could be in a long slump (longer than six months). But only a few:

* Extended family crisis
* Physical illness
* Physical separation (like a military deployment)
* One spouse is / both spouses are abusing the other

That is really all. The rest is just stubbornness and pride. It is the difference between an inability to work on the issues and an unwillingness to do so.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> If I told and individual that their partner should or needs to sleep with them, then I have emboldened their stance, making the problem worse. I teach individuals how to get the problem resolved. I live in a world where only one individual is willing to work on the relationship, in many cases. When the other partner is falling short or refusing altogether, ideals do nothing but ensure the problem persists.


This is not a personal attack, but I have a major problem with the advice you are dishing out in this thread. It is very vague with zero specific guidance - just insisting that the OP could do better and - by implication - that the current state of affairs is the OP's fault.

So, clarify something for me... what do you suggest someone do when one partner will not budge? This guy has been frozen out for six months? What would you consider an acceptable "resolution" or "compromise" in this situation? If YOU had been frozen out for six months, what level of sex would make you say "this is really good improvement and I can live with this"?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

becareful2 said:


> Thirty years? Have you spent a year or so...praying? I mean, the get-down-on-your-knees-and-humble-yourself-before-God type of praying? When all else fails, what do you have to lose? I'm sorry but thirty years is a very long time.


I agree 30 years is a long time, but a full year spent praying for change in a recalcitrant spouse is foolish. Keep in mind that Scripture teaches we are created with free will and must choose to follow the Christian faith. Prayer simply will not work in this manner.

Consider also that his wife is not behaving as a Christian (I don't even know if she considers herself Christian). I strongly believe (based on experience, speaking to my pastor, and just looking around various internet sites) that trying to apply Christian principles to a marriage where either or both of the spouses are not willing to abide by Christian relationship principles is fruitless.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

DTO said:


> I agree 30 years is a long time, but a full year spent praying for change in a recalcitrant spouse is foolish. Keep in mind that Scripture teaches we are created with free will and must choose to follow the Christian faith. Prayer simply will not work in this manner.
> 
> Consider also that his wife is not behaving as a Christian (I don't even know if she considers herself Christian). I strongly believe (based on experience, speaking to my pastor, and just looking around various internet sites) that trying to apply Christian principles to a marriage where either or both of the spouses are not willing to abide by Christian relationship principles is fruitless.


God will give insights and wisdom to those who seek it. If God can rev up Sarah's womb to make her conceive Isaac, then He can turn a marriage around. Does the Bible not say the heart of the kings are in His hands? If He can harden the pharaoah's heart, He can soften a spouse's heart.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

uhtred said:


> You may think that sex is a fundamental part of a romantic relationship. Not everyone does.


SoCal,

This guy nailed it on the head. I had a shrink tell me it might sound weird, but there are people who have sex with their spouses only once a year and were perfectly content with that.

What you need to do is get your affairs in order. See an family law attorney and tell him or her you think your marriage is coming to an end. Ask what you need to do or not do so that she cannot clean you out and then leave.

Then, have a discussion with your wife about what the two of you see as your roles in the marriage. You need to be clear in your mind and communicate clearly to your wife on what you are willing to provide for her/the marriage and what you need from her/the marriage. The conversation should go something like:

"This marriage is in bad shape and I feel abandoned. I'm not even sure we are on the same page regarding what we expect from each other and from ourselves. I feel that <XYZ> is a reasonable expectation of marriage and a requirement I have for ours. If there is something more you need from me to achieve <XYZ> then I'd love to hear about it.

However, getting to where I have <XYZ> must be a priority. I need to know whether you are willing to accept that an integral part of our marriage, and (if so) whether you are work towards getting our marriage to that point. If the answer to either question is no, then there is no point in going on."

And then you do you. Handle your responsibilities to the household and any kids. Don't beg or plead for her to see it your way, and don't wait a long time for her answer. It only takes a short time for her to decide whether she really cares about your happiness, and you don't want someone around who only begrudgingly meet your needs (or is biding her time until she can get a better situation for herself).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

An anti-sex sentiment for women has crept into Christianity and Islam. I don't think it is part of the core religion, but instead has someone been added on - maybe as a way to prevent women from being promiscuous. Perhaps in the past it was assumed that husbands would just insist on sex when they wanted it. 

The problem is that the idea that sex is bad has been absorbed by some women - and now that (thank god) wives ARE allowed to say no to their husbands they do so more often.

It is by no means the whole problem because there are also men who avoid sex with their wives. I think instead that it allows some low desire / asexual women to feel OK with their decision to always refuse sex. 

I'm not suggesting that people should have sex that they actively don't want, but this attitude lets people convince themselves that a sexless marriage is not only OK, but actually a good thing. 





DTO said:


> I agree 30 years is a long time, but a full year spent praying for change in a recalcitrant spouse is foolish. Keep in mind that Scripture teaches we are created with free will and must choose to follow the Christian faith. Prayer simply will not work in this manner.
> 
> Consider also that his wife is not behaving as a Christian (I don't even know if she considers herself Christian). I strongly believe (based on experience, speaking to my pastor, and just looking around various internet sites) that trying to apply Christian principles to a marriage where either or both of the spouses are not willing to abide by Christian relationship principles is fruitless.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

One can ask God, but I don't think it makes sense to wait for prayers to solve the problem. What God chooses to do is beyond the understanding of men and there are many problems that for His reasons He chooses not to solve. 



becareful2 said:


> God will give insights and wisdom to those who seek it. If God can rev up Sarah's womb to make her conceive Isaac, then He can turn a marriage around. Does the Bible not say the heart of the kings are in His hands? If He can harden the pharaoah's heart, He can soften a spouse's heart.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

A situation that many ( including myself) are in, is where sex is bad or non-existent but the rest of the marriage is good. That leads to the very difficult question of whether to divorce when sex is the only problem. 






DTO said:


> SoCal,
> 
> This guy nailed it on the head. I had a shrink tell me it might sound weird, but there are people who have sex with their spouses only once a year and were perfectly content with that.
> 
> ...


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

DTO said:


> You are being too literal. Saying I did "everything" does not mean every possible action under the sun. It means he did everything we would consider reasonable, and that is close enough to "everything".


I wasn't being technical or too literal. The point I was making is that individuals say that and it tends to can mean that little was tried. It being "reasonable" can imply that considerations, that weren't already made, were not applied.



> I will take a personal example. My ex admitted (near the end of our marriage) that she never really wanted a vibrant sex life with me; she just said she did because she knew if she told me how she really felt about sex I would not have married her (and she's right).
> 
> Rather than admit she behaved badly, she insisted her behavior was justified (she deserved a soft married life after a rough childhood). To her, I should have been happy doing things her way (paying all bills, doing most housework, and expecting zero sex) and just having her around should have been reward enough.


That is a statement from someone that has no desire to be nice to you and has lost their connection with you. It is not meant to be taken literally, just as we don't take something literally during the infatuation period. As far as her justification, we can witness the mind of "the victim", where an individual does not label their externalized negativity as such, because they are "the victim". Good example.




> Of course I did not agree to exist on those terms. So, did I literally do everything physically possible? No. Does failure to live under her terms mean that I did not "try everything" to save our relationship? Of course not! It only means that whatever I refused to do is that which was objectively unfair.


There is no such thing as objective fairness. Primary operation under that guise can ensure a lot of pain and failure (externalities). This flaw existed within her, even during dating. That doesn't mean she was irredeemable, but it likely implies some serious work is needed to erase those unconsciously-based mental programs. To get to that point, often, requires a voyage into an "unfair" territory.



> Yes there are good reasons a marriage could be in a long slump (longer than six months). But only a few:
> 
> * Extended family crisis
> * Physical illness
> ...


I wouldn't call abuse a "good reason". Otherwise, there are plenty of other reasons for a prolonged sex slump that many/most couples go through. Whether those considerations exist, or not, there are still basic responsibilities that both partners have in a relationship. When one fails, the other has to step up; it is an imposed burden. Again, this is "unfair". The ability to succeed depends upon how the burdened individual feels and reacts. I, without unapologetically, argue that there is a real need to attempt to resolve this disparity in an approach that escalates. I use a 3-phase approach, wherein we always begin with compassion and understanding, which one might call extremely unfair. There are many reasons we start there and I dare not attempt to explain it in this post (I need 2000+ words). In time, the dialogue and efforts change, assuming the other partner hasn't self-corrected.



> This is not a personal attack, but I have a major problem with the advice you are dishing out in this thread. It is very vague with zero specific guidance - just insisting that the OP could do better and - by implication - that the current state of affairs is the OP's fault.


It is not a personal attack and I did not view it as such. I did view it as a blatant misinterpretation of everything I have said, however.

To give specific guidance, I would likely need a lot of information. Otherwise, we start by some questions, feelers, and some information/explanations. "Specific guidance" doesn't work by itself. This is a very complicated concern that was brought forth to this forum. 



> So, clarify something for me... what do you suggest someone do when one partner will not budge? This guy has been frozen out for six months? What would you consider an acceptable "resolution" or "compromise" in this situation? If YOU had been frozen out for six months, what level of sex would make you say "this is really good improvement and I can live with this"?


Generally speaking, I advise a 3-phase approach. It is going to take time and patience to resolve. It will be frustrating at first, but salvageable relationships always show signs sooner or later. OP would work on himself a lot, trying not to take things personally and give a lot of unconditional love. She might self-correct. She might need a little nudge. Either way, we want her to come to the sex table on her own will, ensuring that she has authentic desire. There are many ways to get her to give emotionless and one-sided sex, but those are ill-advised. Again, if phase 1 doesn't resolve it, we move up to 2 and then 3. The idea is to be able to use every single tool and maximize its effectiveness. The benefit is returning to a healthy sex life. Once sex is back on the table, it requires a phase 1/ early phase 2 approach to maintain. 

What is a good improvement? First off, the first thing we are going to look for is HER empathy of her husband. When she grasps what he is feeling, then the rest becomes a lot easier to resolve. At this point, she might not have desire for sex but might consider other pleasurable alternatives, in the mean time. 

What is reasonable? We want to maximize her desire. If there is a disparity in desires (like electrical voltage), there is likely tension. To fill in that gap, we can use acceptance and alternative pleasurable methods.

It also comes down to whether it is fundamental or circumstantial (her drive). If one's partner has a fundamental drive for sex and never corrects the circumstantial issue, we move through the phases and dissolution may be considered. If one's partner has no innate sexual drive, then the best we can really hope for is the alternative methods. If a woman has no innate sexual desire, that doesn't make her a bad person. Luckily, this is true for few women. To the many men that declare their wife to be LD, there is much that can be done to remove the 'L'.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its not clear to me what you are suggesting. 

Imagine a spouse who does not want, or rarely wants sex. That spouse believes that their feelings are normal, and reject their partners statements about needing / wanting more sex. They do not believe that there is any problem to be solved.







Relationship Teacher said:


> snip
> Generally speaking, I advise a 3-phase approach. It is going to take time and patience to resolve. It will be frustrating at first, but salvageable relationships always show signs sooner or later. OP would work on himself a lot, trying not to take things personally and give a lot of unconditional love. She might self-correct. She might need a little nudge. Either way, we want her to come to the sex table on her own will, ensuring that she has authentic desire. There are many ways to get her to give emotionless and one-sided sex, but those are ill-advised. Again, if phase 1 doesn't resolve it, we move up to 2 and then 3. The idea is to be able to use every single tool and maximize its effectiveness. The benefit is returning to a healthy sex life. Once sex is back on the table, it requires a phase 1/ early phase 2 approach to maintain.
> 
> What is a good improvement? First off, the first thing we are going to look for is HER empathy of her husband. When she grasps what he is feeling, then the rest becomes a lot easier to resolve. At this point, she might not have desire for sex but might consider other pleasurable alternatives, in the mean time.
> ...


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Its not clear to me what you are suggesting.
> 
> Imagine a spouse who does not want, or rarely wants sex. That spouse believes that their feelings are normal, and reject their partners statements about needing / wanting more sex. They do not believe that there is any problem to be solved.


That is the most important reason for what I advocate. Even if one comes across direct (positively so), the other person could expect or feel discomfort. In this case, (your example) the woman has negative associations with sex. As such, we attempt the indirect approach, which must precede any direct/forceful efforts. That either does the trick or it sets the ground for a successful discussion to take place. The idea is to come across in a positive and solution-focused manner, in so doing, we eliminate those negative associations. If she doesn't participate, then we become more direct, but with that unconditionally-loving backdrop. If that doesn't work, then we approach a point of voicing the possibility of dissolution. That is done in a specific manner, as it is a valid and effective last resort.

Ultimately, it comes down to giving her no reason not to participate. We bargain from that standpoint. I use this approach because women have rational and irrational reasons for not to participate. Eliminating those implies she reciprocates, if she doesn't, we choose to cope or choose distance.

A couple that has experienced being a "sexless marriage" (1 time or less per month), for a long time, will take longer to resolve. In that situation, I would be surprised if phase 1 (alone) did the trick. Still, escalating, in this fashion, is what enables our more direct efforts to work.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Still not seeing the specifics. 

What is an "indirect approach". What is a "direct" approach - an what do you mean by "forceful". 

"voicing the possibility of dissolution" seems to translate to "threaten to leave" which is the obvious end point. That of course brings up the question of whether one is willing to divorce over lack of sex - a personal choice. It seems thought that is someone is willing to divorce, they should do so rather than threaten. Who wants sex when it is only give under threat of divorce?





Relationship Teacher said:


> That is the most important reason for what I advocate. Even if one comes across direct (positively so), the other person could expect or feel discomfort. In this case, (your example) the woman has negative associations with sex. As such, we attempt the indirect approach, which must precede any direct/forceful efforts. That either does the trick or it sets the ground for a successful discussion to take place. The idea is to come across in a positive and solution-focused manner, in so doing, we eliminate those negative associations. If she doesn't participate, then we become more direct, but with that unconditionally-loving backdrop. If that doesn't work, then we approach a point of voicing the possibility of dissolution. That is done in a specific manner, as it is a valid and effective last resort.
> 
> Ultimately, it comes down to giving her no reason not to participate. We bargain from that standpoint. I use this approach because women have rational and irrational reasons for not to participate. Eliminating those implies she reciprocates, if she doesn't, we choose to cope or choose distance.
> 
> A couple that has experienced being a "sexless marriage" (1 time or less per month) for a long time will take longer to resolve. In that situation, I would be surprised if phase 1 (alone) did the trick. Still, escalating, in this fashion, is what enables our more direct efforts to work.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> I thought it'd help to add information that illuminates the depth to this common problem. Regarding sex-related insecurities, *men are considerably more focused on their genitals and performance, while women are concerned mostly with their body image* (Cash & Smolak, 2011).




I believe this. Just my experiences and observations, mind you. But yes, this rings true.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

socal04 said:


> Any men out there feel abandoned by their wife? no sex for 6 months.. relationship issues but we are cordial.


I know how you feel, it goes way beyond sex though. She doesn't do anything for herself, her friends, her parents, the kids or me. It's like she's checked out not only from my life but everyone else's. At times she does things for total strangers and ignores those who care for her.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

uhtred said:


> One can ask God, but I don't think it makes sense to wait for prayers to solve the problem. What God chooses to do is beyond the understanding of men and there are many problems that for His reasons He chooses not to solve.


He said, "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you shall find..." I'm just saying if you've exhausted every means you could think of, and has had no meaningful result, then what's the harm in asking God for help? He does want husband and wife to be happily married, not bitter and resentful. He's not going to interject Himself into your marital situation until you ask Him to, because He doesn't go where He's not invited.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For most people that is reasonable. Having sold my soul to the devil and gotten good value for it, it would be reneging on my word to ask God for help. 




becareful2 said:


> He said, "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you shall find..." I'm just saying if you've exhausted every means you could think of, and has had no meaningful result, then what's the harm in asking God for help? He does want husband and wife to be happily married, not bitter and resentful. He's not going to interject Himself into your marital situation until you ask Him to, because He doesn't go where He's not invited.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

uhtred said:


> For most people that is reasonable. Having sold my soul to the devil and gotten good value for it, it would be reneging on my word to ask God for help.


You sound miserable, so I don't know how great that trade-off was, but it's your life.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Actually other than my sex life, the rest is very good. But then that is the classic problem with deals with the devil - people get what they ask for, not necessarily what they want.



becareful2 said:


> You sound miserable, so I don't know how great that trade-off was, but it's your life.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Still not seeing the specifics.


I can't give all of the specifics without context. To do so requires far too many words. I hope you can appreciate this reality.



> What is an "indirect approach". What is a "direct" approach - an what do you mean by "forceful".


Indirect would mean it is a goal but not necessarily expressed or demanded. If it is expressed, it is not the target, but an accompanying factor. Indirect approaches still entail specific methodologies to get to specific ends.

Direct would mean approaching her with the problem.

Forceful can mean a lot of things, really. In one sense, it'd be approaching her with "this needs to change" or "we need to be intimate."


> "voicing the possibility of dissolution" seems to translate to "threaten to leave" which is the obvious end point. That of course brings up the question of whether one is willing to divorce over lack of sex - a personal choice. It seems thought that is someone is willing to divorce, they should do so rather than threaten. Who wants sex when it is only give under threat of divorce?


Great questions.

The "voicing" is probably the hardest thing I have had to put into words. I am glad that you recognized the problems with threats, in general. To use this particular tool entails following through with it, should nothing change. It can still be effective, as the individual would still be able to consider reconciliatory notes from their partner. Anyone that says those words should expect that their partner might agree.

The voicing would be something like "I will leave under these conditions." It is factually based and should only be voiced if one is capable of following through. As such, the romantic partner gets hit with cold hard reality. Used in a very specific manner, we eliminate manipulation and maximize the effectiveness.

In short, it is stating a fact. Obviously, facts and conditions do change. If one is so inclined, they may re-evaluate things as time progresses. If she begins participating while he is packing his bags, then he is free to consider her new offer.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

uhtred said:


> An anti-sex sentiment for women has crept into Christianity and Islam. I don't think it is part of the core religion, but instead has someone been added on - maybe as a way to prevent women from being promiscuous. Perhaps in the past it was assumed that husbands would just insist on sex when they wanted it.
> 
> The problem is that the idea that sex is bad has been absorbed by some women - and now that (thank god) wives ARE allowed to say no to their husbands they do so more often.
> 
> ...


Women have always been allowed to say no to men, and vice versa. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that either spouse in entitled to have their way exclusively regarding sex.

That being said, you are right that an anti-sex bias exists. My understanding is that many churches pound an overly simplistic "no sex before marriage" doctrine. This omits the parts about (1) sex is a wonderful gift to be shared within marriage and (2) we are responsible for meeting our spouse's sexual needs.

Predictably, this results in people feeling guilty about sex, since it is only discussed in negative terms. And the folks who don't particularly value it resent it being a requirement of marriage.

And then there is Catholic doctrine, which says that sex is primarily for procreation, birth control is bad, etc.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> I wasn't being technical or too literal. The point I was making is that individuals say that and it tends to can mean that little was tried. It being "reasonable" can imply that considerations, that weren't already made, were not applied.


Point taken.



Relationship Teacher said:


> That is a statement from someone that has no desire to be nice to you and has lost their connection with you. It is not meant to be taken literally, just as we don't take something literally during the infatuation period. As far as her justification, we can witness the mind of "the victim", where an individual does not label their externalized negativity as such, because they are "the victim". Good example.


I strongly disagree. I don't want to derail this thread, but clearly she was completely serious. It was not said in anger or in a heated moment. It is important to know that the sex was NEVER good in our marriage (16 years). We had dated for some time and had some ok sex. She proposed marriage and said she would have no problems meeting my expectations once married.

And then, it fell off a cliff. She did not provide the experience she promised - not even one single time. Even our honeymoon was one quickie over eight days and a litany of excuses. It was as textbook a case of bait-and-switch as you can find. I seriously should have left her at the hotel and had the marriage annulled. Live and learn.



Relationship Teacher said:


> There is no such thing as objective fairness. Primary operation under that guise can ensure a lot of pain and failure (externalities). This flaw existed within her, even during dating. That doesn't mean she was irredeemable, but it likely implies some serious work is needed to erase those unconsciously-based mental programs. To get to that point, often, requires a voyage into an "unfair" territory.


I never said there was absolute objective fairness; I know it does not exist. To use an extreme example, you will never get absolute agreement that murder is wrong.

I meant to say that you can get so close to it as to be practically the same thing. If you get 100 people in a room and describe a marriage, then 98 of them say it's unfair and only 2 say it's acceptable treatment, that is close enough.



Relationship Teacher said:


> If one's partner has no innate sexual drive, then the best we can really hope for is the alternative methods.


Again, I disagree strongly. We can expect the partner without innate sexual drive to honor the marriage and lovingly provide for his or her spouse regardless, out of respect for the spouse and marriage. I certainly would expect this from anyone I am married to, just like I would do stuff I was not particularly into for her benefit.

Several years ago there was a Christian lady on this site who committed to taking a "servant heart" approach to sex with her husband. Essentially, she had very little or no innate drive. But she had a good husband. So she decided that she would not refuse sex; instead, she looked at sex as an opportunity to bless her husband and honor the marriage. THAT is the right way to handle this situation.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

socal04 said:


> Any men out there feel abandoned by their wife? no sex for 6 months.. relationship issues but we are cordial.


Yes I feel abandoned by my wife. I have had twice in the last two years... that's once a year.
What is it with women?


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

I am starting to believe that when a wife witholds sex from her husband, it's her way getting out of the marriage. She's purposely sabotaging the marriage union on a subconscious level.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

becareful2 said:


> He said, "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you shall find..." I'm just saying if you've exhausted every means you could think of, and has had no meaningful result, then what's the harm in asking God for help? He does want husband and wife to be happily married, not bitter and resentful. He's not going to interject Himself into your marital situation until you ask Him to, because He doesn't go where He's not invited.


Sometimes He just simply wants us to wait for His timing, which is always perfect.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Women have to be emotionally drawn to a guy to want to have sex. The way she was when you were dating. She doesn't have the biological urge to do it like you do. So it behooves you to put the effort into being the guy you were when you were dating.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

kindMe77 said:


> I am starting to believe that when a wife witholds sex from her husband, it's her way getting out of the marriage. She's purposely sabotaging the marriage union on a subconscious level.


I'm sure it's not subconscious, she knows full well what she's doing and society let's women get away with this. Women are free to withhold sex but men are never free to withhold supporting the family. Where is this fair??


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> I'm sure it's not subconscious, she knows full well what she's doing and society let's women get away with this. Women are free to withhold sex but men are never free to withhold supporting the family. Where is this fair??


There is no "fair". Once you marry someone who makes substantially more or less than you, "fair" goes out the window. Once you marry someone "hotter" than you so you can have sex with them on a regular basis, fair goes out the window. Once one of you decides to stay home and care for the kids instead of maximizing their career, fair goes out the window. There are just as many cases of guys dumping their SAH spouse and refusing to pay alimony and child support as there are women who stop having sex but expect to be financially supported after the marriage ends. Unfair goes both ways.

Everyone knows the rules. If you decide to stay married for a long time after the sex stops, you are digging your own hole. I dug mine nice and deep so the temperature is constant despite the change of seasons. I have furnished my deep hole comfortably. Being down here is only a problem if I ever wanted to climb back out.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

Married 25+ years. Still do everything together and enjoy it. Except for no sex. No sex in 10+ years, and less than 1/month before that for years. I don't try anymore. Got tired of the constant rejection and her refusal to do counseling (she was too embarrassed to talk about our non-sex life to a stranger). Outwardly I'm an outgoing, fit, active, happy-go-lucky, successful guy and she thinks everything is great. She still tells me how lucky she is to have me as a husband. The outside world thinks our marriage is perfect. I've been dead on the inside for years and I resent her for it. 

Our last kid goes off to college this coming fall. Once he's gone I'm done. I'm biting the bullet and getting a divorce. Already have it planned. I don't care how much it costs me but I will suffer no longer. She will be utterly blindsided and shocked. So will our families, church, and friends.

After reading through here and other places and I have finally accepted that she will never change. At least not with me. It's clear the only thing to do is get out. I stayed for the kids. I will not go to my grave never knowing intimacy with a woman again. OP don't let this linger or you will suffer my fate.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> There is no "fair". Once you marry someone who makes substantially more or less than you, "fair" goes out the window. Once you marry someone "hotter" than you so you can have sex with them on a regular basis, fair goes out the window. Once one of you decides to stay home and care for the kids instead of maximizing their career, fair goes out the window. * There are just as many cases of guys dumping their SAH spouse and refusing to pay alimony and child support as there are women who stop having sex but expect to be financially supported after the marriage ends. Unfair goes both ways*.
> 
> Everyone knows the rules. If you decide to stay married for a long time after the sex stops, you are digging your own hole. I dug mine nice and deep so the temperature is constant despite the change of seasons. I have furnished my deep hole comfortably. Being down here is only a problem if I ever wanted to climb back out.


In my state you have to pay or you go to jail. I know there's countless stories where women say they got nothing so I don't how this happens. Anyway, skipping out on paying alimony/child support is against the law whereas being a refuser isn't. That's where we have a double standard.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There are some states where QoS is mentioned 😁 but the standard is absurdly low, once a year to ten times a year... And then you have the stigma of divorce because you wanted sex (what are you, some kind of sexed out zombie) vs the refuser who wants a divorce to escape the zombie and so on...

As much as it would clog the already screwed family court system, I would love to see all divorces go to jury trial for that reason alone. Preserve no-fault as it is but make fault a bit easier to declare by one's peers. 

Ah, and televise proceedings for education purposes 😎

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Guys work off the books so no record of income and no wages on the books to garnish. Putting someone in jail for non-payment requires formal legal process. Guys move around. By the time the state realizes there has been chronic non-payment and sends the guy a legal notice, the guy has moved and the notice is never served. If the state catches up too fast, he moves to another state. Then the process for penalizing him for non-payment starts again.

That said, I agree there is a double standard. In the stereotypical case where guy married for sex and women marries for money, when they get divorced she doesn't have to keep having sex with him but he has to keep sending her money. I agree that is non-reciprocal. But if the law were otherwise, a guy could dump his wife who stayed home for 20 years raising their children while he worked outside the home for pay and she is on welfare despite spending 20 years doing the socially responsible act of caring for their children. That is just as "unfair" and a "double standard". Which is why I say there is no "fair" once she stays home with the kids and he works for pay. If you want the rule to be "fair" you would have to prohibit either parent from staying home with the kids and mandate that every adult work to their fullest economic potential. I for one do not want to live in such a totalitarian state.

Or you can simply use self-help to avoid the "unfair" result by not staying married to anyone unless they work to earn enough money to not be entitled to ongoing financial support if you divorce. You can dump the "refuser" quickly so the marriage ends before they become entitled to long term support. What you can't easily do is complain that the system is unfair when it is openly declared in advance and you know the rules you are operating under. If someone chooses to stay married long enough for their spouse to become entitled to ongoing support, they have only themselves to blame. And I say that as someone who is married for 20+ years to a refuser and as someone who would owe large lifetime support payments to her if we divorced. Which is why I am doing my best to convince her to stay married to me until death do us part.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

becareful2 said:


> God will give insights and wisdom to those who seek it. If God can rev up Sarah's womb to make her conceive Isaac, then He can turn a marriage around. Does the Bible not say the heart of the kings are in His hands? If He can harden the pharaoah's heart, He can soften a spouse's heart.


Well, the key with Sarah seems to be that she was willing to have change effected in her life, if skeptical at first that it would happen.

With these refusing spouses, the prevailing attitude seems to be "I am fine and don't care to change. If sex is lacking then he (or she) can get over it or move on."


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

turnera said:


> Women have to be emotionally drawn to a guy to want to have sex. The way she was when you were dating. She doesn't have the biological urge to do it like you do. So it behooves you to put the effort into being the guy you were when you were dating.


If you are talking about my situation, I totally agree with your statements.

The problem was not that I changed after marriage. Like I said, her lack of enthusiasm was evident immediately after the honeymoon.

The problem was that she asked me to marry her knowing that she was not really into sex with me. (Actually, she said she did not foresee herself really being into it with anyone, but to me that is a pointless distinction). I don't see how someone (man or woman) gets to a point in their life where marrying someone to whom you are not attracted seems like a good idea.

Specifically, I know that people marry for financial security, for companionship, to have a good mother/father for their kids, etc. What I do not understand is how someone feels so unable to meet his or her own needs that marrying someone to whom he or she is not attracted in that manner seems like a reasonable choice.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

DTO said:


> Point taken.
> 
> 
> 
> I strongly disagree. I don't want to derail this thread, but clearly she was completely serious. It was not said in anger or in a heated moment. It is important to know that the sex was NEVER good in our marriage (16 years). We had dated for some time and had some ok sex. She proposed marriage and said she would have no problems meeting my expectations once married.


That is important context. That said, my point doesn't imply that it is obviously emotional or heated, rather, it is speaks to the connection or lack thereof. If one has no strong bond to their partner, they could feel no urge to expend effort to be nice/sweet and they often do not do much to spare their partner's feelings.


> And then, it fell off a cliff. She did not provide the experience she promised - not even one single time. Even our honeymoon was one quickie over eight days and a litany of excuses. It was as textbook a case of bait-and-switch as you can find. I seriously should have left her at the hotel and had the marriage annulled. Live and learn.


Generally speaking, this is something that shows itself in various ways before the wedding vows. Still, there can be situations that fall outside of norms. If so, we follow the same process. Should she not reciprocate, the relationship can end relatively quickly. That said, it is not uncommon for promises to be made by either partner that go unfulfilled. We have to see through that a little bit. As you said, "life and learn".



> I never said there was absolute objective fairness; I know it does not exist. To use an extreme example, you will never get absolute agreement that murder is wrong.


 I find "fairness" to be a rather useless construct. I evaluate participation above all else.



> I meant to say that you can get so close to it as to be practically the same thing. If you get 100 people in a room and describe a marriage, then 98 of them say it's unfair and only 2 say it's acceptable treatment, that is close enough.


 That is more reasonable, but I don't go in that direction for fairness.



> Again, I disagree strongly. We can expect the partner without innate sexual drive to honor the marriage and lovingly provide for his or her spouse regardless, out of respect for the spouse and marriage. I certainly would expect this from anyone I am married to, just like I would do stuff I was not particularly into for her benefit.


 A woman can experience serious pain if she is not in the mood. This is why I mentioned the alternatives.



> Several years ago there was a Christian lady on this site who committed to taking a "servant heart" approach to sex with her husband. Essentially, she had very little or no innate drive. But she had a good husband. So she decided that she would not refuse sex; instead, she looked at sex as an opportunity to bless her husband and honor the marriage. THAT is the right way to handle this situation.


There is nothing wrong with her gift. It is up to each couple as to how they arrive to some mutually beneficial arrangement.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> DTO said:
> 
> 
> > I agree 30 years is a long time, but a full year spent praying for change in a recalcitrant spouse is foolish. Keep in mind that Scripture teaches we are created with free will and must choose to follow the Christian faith. Prayer simply will not work in this manner.
> ...


 Have to agree with this...And for good reason...


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> I am starting to believe that when a wife witholds sex from her husband, it's her way getting out of the marriage. She's purposely sabotaging the marriage union on a subconscious level.


I'm not too sure I agree with this, just based on my own situation.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Just incase this is the answer....
H and I had great sex life, dwindled during the childrearing years but we had a once a week understanding, after surgical hysterectomy put me into menopause-I had no desire and no desire to increase my desore. I wanted nothing to do with sex. I would not have cared if I lived my years out completely sexless.
Along comes my suspicions of an A, I try to better myself- looks clothes weight..and I go on Wellbutrin.
Problem solved immediately. That particular antidepressent allowed me to feel pleasure from touch/sex again. Libido 100% restored.

Wellbutrin is prescribed for low libido insome cases.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Cromer said:


> Our last kid goes off to college this coming fall. Once he's gone I'm done. She will be utterly blindsided and shocked. So will our families, church, and friends.


At least give her some advance warning. It is the honorable thing to do.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

To those being advised to pray about it.

I did, I prayed every day for years. Very little sex. He'd wait for months until he thought I was going to freak out and then offer a quickie. My ex knew I wanted sex and that sadistic a$$hole would withhold just because he thought it was fun. Admitted that he felt free to be mean and self serving because he thought I would never leave.

I prayed and prayed and prayed. Finally, last year I realized. What if, this whole time, God was trying to teach me to leave when things get so bad. To act in a manner of self preservation. So I made plans to leave. And now, as a single mother of 2, i'm still not getting laid. But, I am happier, and he doesn't get to hold it over my head anymore.

abandoned is exactly the word I would use for it.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

sixty-eight said:


> To those being advised to pray about it.
> 
> I did, I prayed every day for years. Very little sex. He'd wait for months until he thought I was going to freak out and then offer a quickie. My ex knew I wanted sex and that sadistic a$$hole would withhold just because he thought it was fun. Admitted that he felt free to be mean and self serving because he thought I would never leave.
> 
> ...


At least he would offer it... That never happened to me.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> At least he would offer it... That never happened to me.


Well. We are talking about a sadistic twisted person here. 

To offer me sex once every 6-8 weeks, and then have it be over in 3 min, often with no orgasm for me.

This is not better IMO. I'm a high drive person that would like to have sex averaging every other day or so.

I'd rather be celibate, then that. It's just a tease that kept me hanging on and hoping things would get better eventually.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

rockon said:


> At least give her some advance warning. It is the honorable thing to do.


I know that I came across harsh but that's not the way I intend to handle it. She will be set fine for her living and lifestyle. I want it to be amicable. It's just that when I break it to her and that it is a done deal, it will be a completely unexpected shock. I'm still figuring out exactly how to break the news. It will be a shock her family as well, they basically "adopted" me as their son over 30 years ago. It's a long story and maybe I should do a thread, but a decade of trying to work through this has failed and I've been utterly rejected as anything other than a dear friend. I've given up long ago, just tired of the constant rejection. I don't even desire her anymore, long dead. She is my best friend but that is not enough for me and it's too painful to go on like this anymore. I know she won't change. At least not for me. I have to escape.

Sorry for the hijack.


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