# How much is too much



## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok, wifey of many years and I did the date night/a few drinks/let's share all our pent up issues. Not bad things just those things you have trouble being honest about without some help (i can already hear the replies to that sentence).

Getting to the point - i've been having some, um, performance issues and she blurted out that it was deeply offending her that i didn't find her attractive anymore. i almost laughed and said it had nothing to do with attraction but that she needed to put forth a little extra effort sometimes. hey i was just being honest. ultimately she says she's a very visual person and to summarize a long explanation she gets off to porn way more than i knew about. so while i'm pretty sure we both masturbate all the time we usually also have sex all the time so i don't think too much about it. but now that the sex is struggling a bit i was thinking maybe she needs to back off the videos and maybe focus a bit more on us?

am i wrong here? and how the heck to i say this?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Not sure I follow, how does her backing off the videos and focusing on "us" impact your performance issues (I am assuming that is part of the problem?). What extra effort are you looking for her to put forth that you think would help with ED?


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Right fair question. I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...oh you're not instantly ready? i'll just lie here until you get hard enough because i don't really need to participate because i've already gotten off 3 times today...i'm trying to make the point if she doesn't have any need, then she doesn't have any reason to be an active participant.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Gseries said:


> Right fair question. I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...oh you're not instantly ready? i'll just lie here until you get hard enough because i don't really need to participate because i've already gotten off 3 times today...i'm trying to make the point if she doesn't have any need, then she doesn't have any reason to be an active participant.


That makes more sense. If masturbating solo is impacting your physical relationship then to me that is a problem b/c it is taking something away, she is directing her energy away from you.

How about both you and your wife agree to no solo sessions for some period, and see how it impacts things (yours and her performance)? I think it is a legit concern.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Maybe try a "right of first refusal" agreement. If either of you wants to get off, you ask the other first, and only take care of your selves (with or without porn) if you are turned down.

ED is a sad reality for many men as they age. As long as you are willing to please her in other ways, she needs to live with that - or start hiring young gigolos. I suspect that in reality she will not be as hot at 50 as she was at 20 either - but if you love each other, then it shouldn't matter.

Do you use sex toys together? If she is missing the sensation of penetration, you can provide that other ways.

Now if she is just selfish in bed, that is a whole different matter. Men are not machines any more than women are. Maybe porn is giving her the same sort of unrealistic idea about sex that it gives many men.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Gseries, 
Do you watch porn together?
That might help both of you.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Gseries said:


> Right fair question. I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...oh you're not instantly ready? i'll just lie here until you get hard enough because i don't really need to participate because i've already gotten off 3 times today...i'm trying to make the point if she doesn't have any need, then she doesn't have any reason to be an active participant.


Generally speaking porn gives men the wrong model of female sexuality to observe, as women generally do not reach orgasm instantly and repeatedly upon PIV and jackhammering. In reality women achieve sexual satisfaction very differently.

I actually find it very humorous (sorry bro) now that porn is becoming more common that women are being given the wrong model of male sexuality to observe. I watched some "female porn" the other day and my jaw dropped. Here is what women that watch porn apparently like:

• Strange men that are extremely athletic.
• Very wealthy.
• They own a freaking mansion.
• They are very successful in life. 
• They are instantly attracted to women that are promiscuous. 
• They are very well endowed and always have an erection. 
• They instantly become on edge of orgasm as the sight of her.
• All she has to do is lay back and let them have her. 

Good luck telling her that the male actor is actually poor, and likely took performance enhancing drugs to maintain his erection. She will not want to believe that it was all fake!!!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

badsanta said:


> I watched some "female porn" the other day and my jaw dropped. Here is what women that watch porn apparently like:
> 
> • Strange men that are extremely athletic.
> • Very wealthy.
> ...


I watch a lot of female porn and I have never known or watched anything about how much money they have, what their job is. It's usually just a couch or a bed in the frame... what were you watching?

I watch female friendly porn because it has more foreplay, that's all. Could be oral (on both) or touching/kissing. Much less of the 'spit on her vagina to get it wet enough' kind of stuff.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> That makes more sense. If masturbating solo is impacting your physical relationship then to me that is a problem b/c it is taking something away, she is directing her energy away from you.
> 
> How about both you and your wife agree to no solo sessions for some period, and see how it impacts things (yours and her performance)? I think it is a legit concern.


^^Best answer. 

It is like eating dinner 10 minutes before your significant other gets home. You are satisfied and do not want another meal. If your W is taking care of business before you get home then she is satisfied and not really in the groove to take care of your business. You might as well eat dinner alone.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Gseries said:


> ....Getting to the point - i've been having some, um, performance issues and *she blurted out that it was deeply offending her that i didn't find her attractive anymore. * i almost laughed and said it had nothing to do with attraction but that she needed to put forth a little extra effort sometimes. *hey i was just being honest*. ultimately she says she's a very visual person and to summarize a long explanation she gets off to porn way more than i knew about. so while i'm pretty sure we both masturbate all the time we usually also have sex all the time so i don't think too much about it. but* now that the sex is struggling a bit i was thinking maybe she needs to back off the videos and maybe focus a bit more on us?*
> 
> am i wrong here? and how the heck to i say this?





Gseries said:


> Right fair question. I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...*oh you're not instantly ready?* * i'll just lie here until you get hard enough because i don't really need to participate because i've already gotten off 3 times today..*.i'm trying to make the point if she doesn't have any need, then she doesn't have any reason to be an active participant.


May I suggest that outside the bedroom that you apologize to your spouse for not really responding to her comment appropriately.

She expressed to you that she felt you no longer found her desirable. You should have reassured her that you did desire her, and stopped talking until you were sure that fact sunk in.

One of the problems that I encountered when I was in a sex starved marriage and you aren't, but it is related to your situation, was that I felt my wife no longer desired me as a lover. It was the only logical conclusion I could accept in my mind for my wife not wanting to and having sex with me. Instead the problem was something totally different. 

I lost weight, went to the gym, dressed better and still she didn't desire me. Other women flirted with me so I thought maybe I am desirable to other women, but not just my wife.

When I talked to my wife about this, she said the problem was not with me, but was with her. When someone isn't getting the sex they need and want from a lover and spouse, they tend to first think that the other person doesn't desire them.

Your wife was feeling undesired. She may understand that you are struggling with an ED issue, but she still feels that if you really wanted her, you would be aroused. You need to educate her very gently that it doesn't work like that.

My wife once told me that if I can't get it up, then obviously I am not horny enough. I told her all I wanted was a little foreplay. Her response was again, if I need foreplay then we should wait a little longer to have sex until I am horny enough to have sex.

Again, does any of this sound familiar to you.

My experience was that I needed to educate my wife about the facts of life for a 60+year old man. I had conditioned her during our 40+ years of marriage that by the time I had provided her with foreplay and brought her to climax, I was usually so aroused that she really didn't need to provide any foreplay to me. I had conditioned her sexual response and her perspective of what she needed to do to have PIV sex. Think of Pavlov ringing a bell. 

When I had a temporary problem, it was so far outside of her normal experience that she felt her past training and conditioning meant we should wait for a better time. If it was a whiskey d**k problem then sleeping it off was a solution, but not a great one. When it was something else it was not a solution at all. 

My suggestion based on my experience is that you and your wife are talking past each other and that you need to have a frank conversation about your ED issues and how they in no way diminish your desire or feelings for her, but they are just your body rebelling. You need to educate her that when you have difficulty getting or keeping and erection that you need her to help the two of you more in the act of love making.

Good luck.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> ^^Best answer.
> 
> It is like eating dinner 10 minutes before your significant other gets home. You are satisfied and do not want another meal. If your W is taking care of business before you get home then she is satisfied and not really in the groove to take care of your business. You might as well eat dinner alone.


Kind of reminds me of this meme I had posted a few days ago lol


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Generally speaking porn gives men the wrong model of female sexuality to observe, as women generally do not reach orgasm instantly and repeatedly upon PIV and jackhammering. In reality women achieve sexual satisfaction very differently.
> 
> I actually find it very humorous (sorry bro) now that porn is becoming more common that women are being given the wrong model of male sexuality to observe. I watched some "female porn" the other day and my jaw dropped. Here is what women that watch porn apparently like:
> 
> ...


That is obvious misogyny. "We" know that women like nice guys who treat them with respect, regardless of their wealth or success!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Gseries said:


> Right fair question. I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...oh you're not instantly ready? i'll just lie here until you get hard enough because i don't really need to participate because i've already gotten off 3 times today...i'm trying to make the point if she doesn't have any need, then she doesn't have any reason to be an active participant.


This is not a good situation. Have you told her that you want her to save it for you?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Getting to the point - i've been having some, um, performance issues and she blurted out that it was deeply offending her that i didn't find her attractive anymore. i almost laughed and said it had nothing to do with attraction but that she needed to put forth a little extra effort sometimes. hey i was just being honest. ultimately she says she's a very visual person and to summarize a long explanation she gets off to porn way more than i knew about. so while i'm pretty sure we both masturbate all the time we usually also have sex all the time so i don't think too much about it. but now that the sex is struggling a bit i was thinking maybe she needs to back off the videos and maybe focus a bit more on us?
> 
> am i wrong here? and how the heck to i say this?


There are a bunch of seperate issues here that you are trying to tie together.

You have ED. And it sounds like you have not communicated very well to your wife what is happening with your body and why. This should be something you talk about openly so that she understands what's going on. As a woman, I would have no idea if a guy was having ED issues because he wasn't so attracted to me, because he'd been masturbating too much and couldn't get it up so easily, because he was taking some sort of drugs the body-builders take that gives them erection/orgasm problems, has some kind of medical issue related to blood pressure or needs to lose weight or what, because of other aging issues or any of the other reasons a guy might have ED. 

In the absence of any sort of explanation from the guy, it's not at all surprising that a woman could believe he's just not attracted to her. That's what she fears most, so that's the explanation she'll key on, or at least will be one of the things she worries about in connection to your ED.

So I'd recommend thinking about why you have ED, and be clear with her why it's happening. Give her the reassurance she needs that you're still hot for her. Then it's a lot easier to talk about what kind of effort you need to help you out - be specific. "Make more effort on foreplay" is not specific enough. Tell her or show her what sort of stimulation you need.

All the porn and masturbation...yeah, I don't know why you two are so hooked on this when you have sex "all the time." It's probably become a habit, and that's a problem both mentally (needing more intense erotic stimulation to get aroused) and physically (both of you will be drained sexually, so it will take a lot more to get you turned on and to orgasm). 

Both of you need stop doing that for a while and see if that improves your sexual dynamics and your ED. And you can't ask her to stop if you won't stop - this is a team project.

And this:


> I'm saying sex has started to become a little too much...up to the room, clothes off, then here's what i see happening...oh you're not instantly ready?


sounds exceedingly unsexy. Is there no flirting and foreplay before you just take your clothes off and get into bed? You two need to flirt more and start the sexy feelings long before you go to bed. Mental foreplay before the physical foreplay makes the sex way better.

Good luck.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

I'm going to get started on demonizing porn.
OK, I like porn and have enjoyed it for years, but I noticed I stared have some ED issues that I decided might be related to private porn and masturbation. I don't think it's the root of all evils, but I am convinced it affects male performance in the bedroom. It's something that happens slowly over time.

Bottom line is that we men get desensitized to women the more we watch porn. Porn is exciting, it's unrealistic, it's extreme at times, and it's always new. By way of comparison your wife is a constant. Same body, same moves (generally from time to time) and essentially doesn't have the novelty of porn. You're basically bored with her because she's not trying.

Now I know what you mean. If she just made any effort to seduce you, it might work, so I would suggest giving her specific guidance on what might get you going. My wife knows I like her butt in panties and to say certain key things that almost always get me going. I tell her what I like and she does it, at long as it's reasonable.

Second, masturbating means you're physically spent. Your androgen receptors have lost sensitivity and your dopamine receptors in your brain are desensitized and probably rewired for the novelty of porn.
Read this: http://www.anabolicmen.com/how-internet-porn-makes-you-less-of-a-man/
Otherwise Google search that URL and read the cache (it seems to be down right now.)

OK, unproven science? Perhaps. None of this is absolute. My point is that you (both) need to redirect that sexual energy back into your relationship.
I stopped all porn and self-satisfaction and redirected efforts back into my relationship and it vastly improved.

If you can watch porn together then go for it. They key is that you're practicing sex with a woman, not with your hand. Trust me on this, you're ED isn't going to improve unless you stop PMO (Porn Masturbation Orgasm.)

In the mean time, consider getting on cialis daily just temporarily as you get things going again. I know where you can get good cheap generics if you don't have insurance coverage, but taking 5mg of that daily and you'll always be ready to go. But please don't use it to PMO as you'll only make it worse. I used cialis so that I'd be ready to go, and as a result we started having really really good sex. The sex got better, she got more excited to have sex with me, and over a matter of a few weeks I didn't even need the cialis anymore. The awkwardness and anxiety of standing there trying to get hard as she's twiddling her thumbs was a thing of the past. She had come to expect this problem, which means I had the problem. But once she expected me to be hard and ready, she acted like it, and so the problem was generally solved.
This is in conjunction with stopping porn and masturbation, mind you.

Basically one day I told my wife "I'm giving up Rosey Palmer" and that she was going to be my sole sexual outlet. I didn't elaborate on the amount of my porn use, but the message was that if I was to get past these sporadic ED issues, the best thing to do is not have orgasm except during sex with her and needed her to be on board with that. I elaborated that I wanted our sexual relationship to improve and get back to what we had earlier in our relationship (better) and that I wanted a little more initiative and effort from her (without trying to lay the burden or blame on her.) Basically just very constructive talk about how to make our sex life better for the both of us. This all basically worked.

So stopping the PMO
1) It rewires you to get pleasure out of sex.
2) The build up in between can be quite powerful. If you don't cheat with PMO, then even the wind is going to make you hard (annoyingly so.) Hopefully you seek out her for sex and not go to the hand.
3) Refocuses effort and energy into your relationship which will improve, I guarantee it.

My wife is very much NOT visually oriented. She's just the opposite much to my disappointment. I've accused her of not being attracted to me anymore and she insists that's not the case, but that she's never been visually oriented. And that's true. Sexy movies and strippers are not her thing. What gets her going is one thing and one thing only, alcohol. Well a slow massage and very slow kissing and foreplay, but the shortcut is alcohol. Either way I've had to work with what gets her going including small flirts and suggestions about when is a good time to hook up and the anticipation can be exciting on it's own. We don't just run to the bedroom spontaneously anymore. I wish we did but with the kid in the house that's usually not possible.

If you want my perspective on this, you're both just spending too much time on self-gratification and need to commit to pleasuring each other.
Also, no masturbation isn't absolute. If you have to go 3-4 days without, by all means do what you gotta do. But if you're trying to have sex every 2 days, then don't do it at all. At least try it for a couple of months months. Basically I try to not do it within 3 days of any possibility of having sex with her. It motivates me to initiate with her and I get a lot more out of it.

I hope I'm making some sense and don't sound like a crazy person. I wish someone had explained this to me years ago in a way I'd understand. I always viewed PMO as completely innocent but now, at my age, I realize it's counterproductive to sex.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok...too many questions. Here's my summary. She can't or won't quit since she claims she's masturbating since age 12. I can't quit, I've tried. It doesn't work.
I've pleaded with her to help me, aka, my only release his her vagina....but she won't....she doesn't understand the connection.
And no, there is very little foreplay...too many kids not enough time. Once every ten days or so ill try to take my time, build it up, etc.
She's the porn watcher. I'd be ok watching with her, but she can't orgasm with me in the room. That sucks. Sometimes I use a vibe and it works.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

A year or so ago you had mentioned that your wife does not O with you so her giving up masturbating would just be frustrating IMO and not really what is holding things back. It's not like she needs to wait to O with you if she's not Oing with you. 
I also would not expect her to quit porn if you can't yourself. 

I'd try making more time for foreplay every time too. Kids can watch a movie or play on their own, they won't die if you take an extra 20 minutes. Teach them that if the door is closed, they leave you alone unless the house is on fire or something actually important. 
That gives you both some more warm up time.

ETA- you must have edited yours while I was typing 

Maybe your issue is more that you want her to learn to O with you and not so much your ED?


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Just to clarify she masturbates to porn I just masturbate out of habit.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes I very much feel left out in the O department.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Gseries said:


> Yes I very much feel left out in the O department.


Read some more of that thread. Have you tried any of the domination stuff? 
You could ask her if she'd like to try something like she gets tied down/blindfolded and turned on until she can't take it anymore and you let her have an O. 
Something like that, even if just for foreplay and it doesn't _work_, could make her open up more and give her her fantasies at the same time? 

She might feel more comfortable Oing with you if it's a D/s way. Maybe find a good forced orgasm porn vid and send it to her, ask if she'd like to try. Or be more demanding with it and tell her this is the plan for tonight, be ready. (I'd be a horrible dom but you get the picture) but then she can still turn you down if she doesn't want to try.


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