# We were getting married...



## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Our relationship was great. It was the most fulfilling relationship of my life, and we had planned on starting a family. In her words, I'm the love of her life.

She has Complex PTSD, and in December and January, she suffered very much from her past traumas. So much so, that in January, she kicked all men out of her life, myself included.

I've started therapy during this loss. I've tried cautiously to reach out to her. I literally spend all my free time trying to make these grand gestures (not just a bouquet of flowers), but building her things that always make her happy.

I miss my best friend and my partner in life. I'm at a loss because I'm trying to respect her boundaries. We haven't seen each other face to face in 2 months, and the last time she called weeks ago, she cried. Hearing her cry destroys me. She's afraid that seeing me will cause so much panic because it means putting her broken faith back in a man. I'm completely heartbroken that I can't see the love of my life.

I like my therapist, and as a good therapist, she won't instruct me what to do. I'm lost and want to see my love, face to face. I truly believe we can make progress if we meet face to face, but this is a trigger to her.

What do I do?


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

So how long were you with her?


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Tested_by_stress said:


> So how long were you with her?


A few years


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You need to give more information if you want advice. If you just want to vent then carry on.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You can't contact her without violating her boundaries. I'm sorry, @heartbr0ken,, but you need to let her go. Do not pine away for her. Let your heart heal.

Find some things to do with your time, so you are not constantly missing her. Work on growing and building yourself as a man. I also recommend working out. That has many benefits, including making you feel physically good and strong, plus it is a stress reliever, etc.

If she calls you, listen to her and have a conversation, but don't ask her to come back or try to get her back. That will only push her further away. Let her know that you miss her, but you're taking good care of yourself and developing a hobby or two. That way you are truthful and you don't appear needy.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> You need to give more information if you want advice. If you just want to vent then carry on.


Let's see if I can add enough...

Her ex-husband cheated on her with dozens of men. They divorced 6 years ago, after she tried saving the marriage. Every boyfriend since him has hurt her in shocking fashion, from extreme emotional manipulation to one who would break into her house for a year after their breakup.

Because of these experiences, I set a boundary with her. I told her that if we ever broke up, I would not knock on her door. I'd need to be invited over. I did this to help ease her into trusting me.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Seriously… remove your emotional attachment and look at the big picture. You want to spend the rest of your life trying to put broken back together? That’s relationship suicide. Not only is it a nightmare but her man issues will likely have her cheating on you sooner or later. Why sign up for such a difficult existence.

Take a big step back and look at the big picture…. You are making a HUGE mistake!!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Just to repeat …..a HUGE mistake!!


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Seriously… remove your emotional attachment and look at the big picture. You want to spend the rest of your life trying to put broken back together? That’s relationship suicide. Not only is it a nightmare but her man issues will likely have her cheating on you sooner or later. Why sign up for such a difficult existence.
> 
> Take a big step back and look at the big picture…. You are making a HUGE mistake!!


I appreciate the words of caution. I truly do. She's worth everything to me, and I knew what I was signing up for at the start.

I'm at a roadblock where I can't figure out how to talk without breaking the boundary I set up -- which I set up to make her comfortable with me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Like many here she was cheated on and seemed to pick awful boyfriend's after that. 
Some can eventually recover from these things and have good marriages again but for whatever reason she isn't. 

If she can't or doesn't want to be with a man then you are beating a dead horse. I mean you were with her for years but she still can't trust you? It's hard to understand that but it seems that sadly you need to let her go. 

She may never want to marry who knows.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> I appreciate the words of caution. I truly do. She's worth everything to me, and I knew what I was signing up for at the start.
> 
> I'm at a roadblock where I can't figure out how to talk without breaking the boundary I set up -- which I set up to make her comfortable with me.


You can't talk to her.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> You want to spend the rest of your life trying to put broken back together?


By the way, I know the path to healing is very long. She's my best friend, and I've vowed to stand by her side. I also know that I can't be the one to heal her -- that has to come from her for lasting change.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> You can't talk to her.


To clarify: we can talk. I can pick up the phone. We texted this past weekend. But when we're face to face, she let's her guard down. When we're on the phone, she can push away.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> I appreciate the words of caution. I truly do. She's worth everything to me, and I knew what I was signing up for at the start.
> 
> I'm at a roadblock where I can't figure out how to talk without breaking the boundary I set up -- which I set up to make her comfortable with me.


You seem like a good person so please understand I’m not trying to hurt your feelings. 
You can spend years helping her, everything from being her emotional punching bag to being her listening post while she vent’s about all the terrible things that happened to her. Eventually she might, just might find a way out of the darkness that she’s in and if she’s finally able to leave her past behind her she will probably include you in the things she leaves behind. 
I’ve seen this scenario played out before and the person who will suffer the most is you.
Tell her you’re there for her if she wants to talk but don’t waste your life waiting on something that’s not going to happen.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> To clarify: we can talk. I can pick up the phone. We texted this past weekend. But when we're face to face, she let's her guard down. When we're on the phone, she can push away.


It seems she is hanging onto you while telling you she can't be with you. I can't see how that is ever going to work.

Personally I would give her space and have no contact.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Like many here she was cheated on and seemed to pick awful boyfriend's after that.
> Some can eventually recover from these things and have good marriages again but for whatever reason she isn't.
> 
> If she can't or doesn't want to be with a man then you are beating a dead horse. I mean you were with her for years but she still can't trust you? It's hard to understand that but it seems that sadly you need to let her go.
> ...


The most empathetic, pro family, religious, and forgiving woman on this entire marriage forum just told you that you need to let her go … let that sink in a little.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Double post …


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> It seems she is hanging onto you while telling you she can't be with you. I can't see how that is ever going to work.
> 
> Personally I would give her space and have no contact.


Yeah, my therapist said the exact same thing this week. That she's holding on for a number of reasons.

We were both very clear about any possible break up - what we promise to do, what we won't do, and how we respond. And she hasn't followed through, not even on the things I disliked. For instance, she promised to block me, and when we talked about it, she explained that she wouldn't want to, but she would have to because it's a rule of hers: must block all ex's. And I'm not blocked.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Why would you want to be with someone this messed up?

And that’s assuming that this is actually about her past trauma and distrust of men. She may just be saying that as part of the classic, “it’s not you, it’s me,” excuse that women use in an effort to not hurt your feelings. She may have simply dumped you and that was her story. 

Either why would you want to be with someone like that. 

Why not meet and date emotionally and mentally healthy women?? (Honest question)


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> The most empathetic, pro family, religious, and forgiving woman on this entire marriage forum just told you that you need to let her go … let that sink in a little.


I'm doing my best to look out for my mental health during this. I get it... no one should have to take on these tasks.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Sorry OP but are you 100% sure of her reasoning for kicking you to the curb? I too have complex PTSD and can't quite grasp her reasoning for tossing you out with the trash,so to speak.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

heartbr0ken said:


> Yeah, my therapist said the exact same thing this week.


Cough cough….. seriously take a hint. Spare yourself the miserable existence.

If you do you will thank yourself in the long run when you look back.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Why would you want to be with someone this messed up?
> 
> And that’s assuming that this is actually about her past trauma and distrust of men. She may just be saying that as part of the classic, “it’s not you, it’s me,” excuse that women use in an effort to not hurt your feelings. She may have simply dumped you and that was her story.
> 
> ...



No assumptions needed. There was a time that I was hesitant to believe the stories of her exs'. She was questioning her own sanity so frequently with one man, she started recording the conversations, and she shared them with me (her request, not mine). It was horrifying. She really has this trauma.

She's my best friend, it's as simple as that. I wish she wasn't hurt in her past, but this is where we are.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Tested_by_stress said:


> Sorry OP but are you 100% sure of her reasoning for kicking you to the curb? I too have complex PTSD and can't quite grasp her reasoning for tossing you out with the trash,so to speak.


I've cried over this. Yes, here's the exact reasoning:

In an argument, I changed the subject. That's her biggest trigger because of how her ex-husband would manipulate her. by changing the subject and controlling her. I caught my mistake too late, and it set her off. After a few days, we reconciled. And soon after that, she was triggered in a business meeting -- an investor made pass after pass at her. That triggered her to the extent that as it was going on, she told me that she can't have any men in her life until she heals.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> No assumptions needed. There was a time that I was hesitant to believe the stories of her exs'. She was questioning her own sanity


Any time some is questioning their sanity, you should question their sanity too.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Any time some is questioning their sanity, you should question their sanity too.


 I did! It checked out. She's been through so much. All she knows how to do is to push everyone away. She's told me that directly


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> In an argument, I changed the subject. That's her biggest trigger because of how her ex-husband would manipulate her. by changing the subject and controlling her. I caught my mistake too late, and it set her off.


What were you arguing about? Was it something dumb? Was it something nutty on her part?

You didn’t make a mistake. People change the subject periodically. 

Men also make passes at chicks. Every woman from the age of 13 has had to learn to deal with men flirting and hitting on them. 

If every woman isolated herself from all men because she was hit on by a man, the human species would go extinct in a matter of years.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> I did! It checked out. She's been through so much. All she knows how to do is to push everyone away. She's told me that directly


I’m not saying that the guy wasn’t being a jerk or that she was making it up.

I’m saying if someone thinks they are losing their marbles, they usually are.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> What were you arguing about? Was it something dumb? Was it something nutty on her part?
> 
> You didn’t make a mistake. People change the subject periodically.
> 
> ...


The argument was that she was having a hard time raising funds for her business, and she wanted to cancel our New Years plans to focus on that. I told her ok but that I was upset about it.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not saying that the guy wasn’t being a jerk or that she was making it up.
> 
> I’m saying if someone thinks they are losing their marbles, they usually are.


I see that. I'm not trying to make any excuses for her. She handled a lot of things poorly, and I don't deserve how she's handled this.

I'm also not able to pull myself away, in part, I feel I'm abandoning her. In part, I know she's hurting as much as I am. 

That's why I'm trying to gain insight how to talk with her face to face so we can be on equal grounds and not have the barriers up


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ptsd? from military deployment? get her help, as best you can, from the VA. after professional couseling for her, MAYBE she might be ready to have a serious relationship

ptsd from some bull woke incident, like BLM or Covid? Let her go, she ain't worth it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Here’s something you need to think about - if every male she has been associated with has been abusive and manipulating and continually hurting her, who is the common denominator in all of those associations?

Why is she associating with all of these bad men? 

I’ve known a number of chicks over the years that claimed every guy from kid down the street to their Uncle Ernie to the mailman has abused and molested them. 

If this has all happens when she is an adult, That means one of a couple things - 

-one is that is that there’s something inside her that is drawing her towards bad men and she doesn’t have the wherewithal to maintain boundaries and get away from them and she goes from one bad man to the next.

- the other is that she is the whackadoodle.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not saying that the guy wasn’t being a jerk or that she was making it up.
> 
> I’m saying if someone thinks they are losing their marbles, they usually are.



My friends - even my therapist - have all asked me when I'm going to stop taking the abuse. We've been through this once before, and the solution was to meet face to face.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> I see that. I'm not trying to make any excuses for her. She handled a lot of things poorly, and I don't deserve how she's handled this.
> 
> I'm also not able to pull myself away, in part, I feel I'm abandoning her. In part, I know she's hurting as much as I am.
> 
> That's why I'm trying to gain insight how to talk with her face to face so we can be on equal grounds and not have the barriers up


You’re starting to sound like a creeper and a stalker.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You’re starting to sound like a creeper and a stalker.


I'm legit saying: I'm not going to her house to force a conversation. Texting isn't progressing. The boundaries are mine not hers.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

..when I say I cant pull myself away, I dont mean to give off creepy vibes. I mean that I'm aware that I'm not putting myself first. I'm falling on the sword. That's all. No creepy stuff please


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

She asked for space. If you don’t give it to her you aren’t helping her. She seems to want to figure some things out on her own, maybe get on with your life and if it’s meant to be you’ll reconnect. Clinging to her isn’t good for either of you.


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## Vorpal (Feb 23, 2020)

Run. Don’t look back. Save yourself from a lifetime of misery.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> ptsd? from military deployment? get her help, as best you can, from the VA. after professional couseling for her, MAYBE she might be ready to have a serious relationship
> 
> ptsd from some bull woke incident, like BLM or Covid? Let her go, she ain't worth it.


It does seem that it's very overdiagnosed these days. Just as bipolar was a few years ago.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So, the bottom line here is that this is an insecurity and self esteem issue in YOU.

For some reason, there’s a voice inside you that’s telling you that this gal is all that you can get and if you can’t make it work with her, you’ll die destitute and alone and get eaten by your cats. 

Guys that get with these damsels in distress and try to rescue them and try to make up for all these supposed abuses and mistreatment by other men, are usually about as disordered as the chicks themselves and it usually stems from believing that they can’t get a healthy and squared away woman. 

A mentally healthy and squared away man with an intact sense of self and dignity would have sent a crazy chick packing the first time she started saying or doing nutty stuff. 

You need to address your own issues and you sense of self worth and let her address her issues on her own.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> The most empathetic, pro family, religious, and forgiving woman on this entire marriage forum just told you that you need to let her go … let that sink in a little.


They aren't married thankfully and it's hard to see how it will work. He will be always having to walk on eggshells in case she is 'triggered'. 
I guess its possible that she would eventually be ok enough to marry, but probably not for many years.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

heartbr0ken said:


> Our relationship was great. It was the most fulfilling relationship of my life, and we had planned on starting a family. In her words, I'm the love of her life.
> 
> She has Complex PTSD, and in December and January, she suffered very much from her past traumas. So much so, that in January, she kicked all men out of her life, myself included.
> 
> ...


@heartbr0ken ,

As I re-read your initial post, do you know what I see? I see you talking about how YOU felt and how YOU reached out to her and how YOU miss your best friend and how YOU are at a loss and how YOU are heartbroken...but I don't hear as much about her. Did *she* think the relationship was great and that it was the most fulfilling relationship of her life? Or was she just in a rebound relationship after SEVERAL severely abusive relationships? Did *she *want you to reach out to her? Or did she want no men in her life to keep herself safe? Did *she *miss the person whom *she *considers her best friend? Or did she want time to herself to figure out what healthy friendship even is? Did *she *feel that losing you was a loss, or did she feel like she had to do what she had to do? Did *she *feel heartbroken, or did she feel relief?

I ask because I see you focusing an awful lot on YOU and not really putting yourself in her shoes and focusing on what she needs right now. You want to meet with her face-to-face and she has not presented that as an offer to you yet, so...I'd venture to guess that is not where her mind is. That's not likely something she needs or wants right now. So ask yourself if you are looking out for her or for yourself.



heartbr0ken said:


> ... Her ex-husband cheated on her with dozens of men. They divorced 6 years ago, after she tried saving the marriage. Every boyfriend since him has hurt her in shocking fashion, from extreme emotional manipulation to one who would break into her house for a year after their breakup.
> 
> Because of these experiences, I set a boundary with her. I told her that if we ever broke up, I would not knock on her door. I'd need to be invited over. I did this to help ease her into trusting me.


Soooo...she has complex PTSD from chronic, long-term abuse by several male humans. Some other male humans (not you) have hurt her over and Over and OVER again in severely traumatizing ways. And your hope had been to ease her worries so she could trust you. That's admirable. But that also means that you need to put yourself in her shoes and think of what SHE needs over and above what YOU need. Are you really in this for her? Do you really want to take the time it will take for her to trust you? Then you will need to do and say the same thing. 

See, a portion of her trauma is that for all those male humans, words and actions did not match. They would say one thing and do another. They would say one thing, not do it, and then try to convince her they never said that (gaslighting). They would make promises and break them. Now along comes you. You "say" you want to ease her into trusting you, so you tell her that you would not knock on her door--that she would need to invite you. WELL? You tell me--if you want your words and actions to match, what do you need to do?

Honor your promise! 

So far, no male human in her life has actually followed through on what he said he was going to do. You told her you would let her be in the driver's seat and that you wouldn't force her to see you--that she would have to invite you voluntarily. Well she's made it clear she's not inviting you yet. In fact, she's made it pretty clear she is NOT READY to see you face-to-face. It's probably not "you" per se, but rather "any male human"... But if you really meant what you said, and you REALLY want her to be able to trust you, then you need to DO what your words SAID. 




heartbr0ken said:


> I've cried over this. Yes, here's the exact reasoning:
> 
> In an argument, I changed the subject. That's her biggest trigger because of how her ex-husband would manipulate her. by changing the subject and controlling her. I caught my mistake too late, and it set her off. After a few days, we reconciled. And soon after that, she was triggered in a business meeting -- an investor made pass after pass at her. That triggered her to the extent that as it was going on, she told me that she can't have any men in her life until she heals.


Here's my exact advice to you, and it's just my opinion--yours may differ. But speaking as a person who's had a horribly traumatic life (I was physically abused by my parents as a child into my teen years, and raped when I was 19yo), let me tell you that I am not exactly the most trusting person with my inner self. Oh, I'll be surface friendly with anyone. I don't lie to people or pretend to be something I'm not. I also do not open up and be vulnerable with just anyone and I don't do it easily--ask my Beloved Buddhist! It takes me a long time to observe a person and watch their words and their actions. It takes me a long time to convince myself that what I'm seeing is real. It takes me a long time to believe another person loves me. I would venture to guess your "best friend" is the same way. Right now she is OBSERVING you and whether you are safe. She is watching your words and your actions: do they match? She is watching whether you'll think of her. All these things add up to the same thing: not now. 

If I were you, I'd email or phone her and say something like: "Selfishly, I miss you terribly and wish we could meet face-to-face, because then I would not hurt so much. But I can see that you are not yet there, and I made a promise to you that if we broke up, you would have to invite me in. So I'm telling you now that I'm going to choose to wait for you. I'm going to give you time so you can decide for your own self when and IF you want to meet with me again. I made you a promise, and even though I feel sad, I am going to keep my promise to you and do what I said. When you're ready, I'll be right here." 

Then determine for yourself how long you're willing to wait. Some wouldn't wait at all. Some would give her a month and move on. Some might say 6 months or a year becasue therapy takes time! You set YOUR time limit. And then, proceed to go on with your life. Sitting and pining for her will not do either of you any good. So instead of spending your free time trying to make grand gestures, apply that same amount of effort and enthusiasm to YOU and what is healthy for you. That's not abandoning her--that is "keeping yourself in good shape for the day when/if she decides to invite you." Remember that class you always wanted to take? Take it. Remember how you always wanted to get that gym membership? Get it. Remember how you loved classic cars and she didn't? Go to a car show. Be you--but work on being the best version of you. And show her your character: that you are patient for her, and strong for yourself. This pining and whining just shows her that she can't lean into you hard! Show her you love yourself enough to be the best you.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> So, the bottom line here is that this is an insecurity and self esteem issue in YOU.
> 
> For some reason, there’s a voice inside you that’s telling you that this gal is all that you can get and if you can’t make it work with her, you’ll die destitute and alone and get eaten by your cats.
> 
> ...


First off, good sir... I have only 1 cat. Thank you very much! 

To be honest, the day before our argument, it dawned on me that if we weren't committed, if we weren't going to get married and start a family, I wouldn't put up with the issues. Before her, I was in a 10 year relationship, and I walked away without shedding a tear. I told my 10-year ex that there was something very important to me in our relationship and if she crossed that line, I would leave. She crossed a few weeks or months later, and I left.

I don't know why I'm trying so hard with my girl.. you're very right, there's a big component of damsel in distress. But I've never tried to rescue her or heal her. I've tried to restore her faith that not everyone is evil, and not everyone just wants to take from her. Even her friends see her as their chance to climb the social ladder -- she reflected on that to me one night ages ago.

Where I'm frustrated is that she's been making so much progress, and I'm so proud of her for facing her demons. And the last time there was a bad blowout with us, the solution was to face the issues eye to eye. Im sad because we havent been able to be face to face this time.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> That's why I'm trying to gain insight how to talk with her face to face so we can be on equal grounds and not have the barriers up


If this is the reason you're here then you're not going to leave satisfied.

Everyone here can see this relationship is not going to work.

And I'm starting to lean toward getting the creepy vibe from you if you can't get your man-parts in order and leave her alone as she requested.

No contact.
Now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> The argument was that she was having a hard time raising funds for her business, and she wanted to cancel our New Years plans to focus on that. I told her ok but that I was upset about it.


Here’s something that you knights in shining armor that try to save these damsels in distress need to keep in mind - there is always going to be hardships and conflicts and storms in life. You are never going to be able to provide sunny skies and smooth sailing for her forever.

If these whackadoodles are always going to spaz out and go bang other dudes because there’s been some kind of bump in the road, you’re going to live a life of chaos and disorder and you’re always going to be trying to put out one fire or another and they’re always going to be hooking up with some random at the bar because the road of life has a lot of bumps. 

These crazy chicks may be hot in bed the first few weeks you’re with them, but most of the chaos and crazymaking is being created by themselves.

And the more you try to fix things and smooth things out and rescue them, the more agitated and disordered they get.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> A mentally healthy and squared away man with an intact sense of self and dignity would have sent a crazy chick packing the first time she started saying or doing nutty stuff.


this is true. You might be looking at the whole past relationship with rose colored glasses. YOU thought it was great, and she could not wait to dump you.....

once again, explain what you mean by PTSD?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Find someone without these issues. If you really care, sure you can be a friend to her, but look how she is treating you....... she is not relationship material. Don't attempt to be a knight in shining armor, it doesn't work.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It seems odd to me that she was fine with you for years but suddenly can't see you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> you're very right, there's a big component of damsel in distress. But I've never tried to rescue her or heal her. I've tried to restore her faith that not everyone is evil, and not everyone just wants to take from her.


Trying to restore her faith in men IS trying to be a Knight in Shining Armor (KSA) and trying to rescue the damsel in distress.

Stop that. 

Here’s what Dr Laura Schlesinger says about men trying to rescue damsels in distress - 

“When men try to rescue damsels in distress, all they have to show for it is a distressed damsel on their hands.” 

Truer words have never been spoken.

If you manage to creep and stalk her enough to undump you, you may get a few nights of really kinky sex out of the deal, but then you are going to go right back into Crazy Town and have all this chaos and conflict and drama... rinse and repeat.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She seems unstable or you don't know the whole story. I suspect that other is true. She probably wasn't as into you as your thought but didn't have the courage to be honest with you. 

Either way I suggest you move on. I am very sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Here’s something that you knights in shining armor that try to save these damsels in distress need to keep in mind - there is always going to be hardships and conflicts and storms in life. You are never going to be able to provide sunny skies and smooth sailing for her forever.
> 
> If these whackadoodles are always going to spaz out and go bang other dudes because there’s been some kind of bump in the road, you’re going to live a life of chaos and disorder and you’re always going to be trying to put out one fire or another and they’re always going to be hooking up with some random at the bar because the road of life has a lot of bumps.
> 
> ...


The Knight doesn't get the girl anyway, the Prince always does. Better to be the Prince then die as the Knight.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Just an FYI; Our own @dadstartingover put out a podcast on these crazy chicks just a couple days ago.

It’s only 5 minutes long so you can listen to it in the John, but he sums it all up pretty well and tells it like it is.

I recommend listening to it and taking it to heart.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I was badly hurt and betrayed by three different men in my life. However I always understood the fact that 3 men don't represent all men. She can't seem to get that. She seems to be unable to choose or date decent men or leave them when they begin to get abusive, who knows why. 
With you she has dated for years but suddenly can't anymore. Why now?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> The Knight doesn't get the girl anyway, the Prince always does. Better to be the Prince then die as the Knight.


The prince can lock her away in the tower where she can’t cause any problems.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I was badly hurt and betrayed by three different men in my life. However I always understood the fact that 3 men don't represent all men. She can't seem to get that. She seems to be unable to choose or date decent men or leave them when they begin to get abusive, who knows why.
> With you she has dated for years but suddenly can't anymore. Why now?


Sometimes it takes a while to heal. I struggled with judging all men by my father for a long time. Your way is healthier, no doubt, but I get needing some healing time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> With you she has dated for years but suddenly can't anymore. Why now?


Yes, please share what the straw that broke the camel’s back was and why she can’t be around any men, including you now?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sokillme said:


> The Knight doesn't get the girl anyway, the Prince always does. Better to be the Prince then die as the Knight.


You’re hanging out with the wrong women. Give me the knight any day, I don’t want to deal with some spoiled, lazy, entitled prince. Especially since the prince will lock me in a tower, and who knows how many other women he has locked in other towers. The knight will give me a sword and let me ride with him, not treat me like a dolly for him to play with when he’s bored.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

heartbr0ken said:


> First off, good sir... I have only 1 cat. Thank you very much!
> 
> To be honest, the day before our argument, it dawned on me that if we weren't committed, if we weren't going to get married and start a family, I wouldn't put up with the issues. Before her, I was in a 10 year relationship, and I walked away without shedding a tear. I told my 10-year ex that there was something very important to me in our relationship and if she crossed that line, I would leave. She crossed a few weeks or months later, and I left.
> 
> ...


If she had any level of interest in you she would make it work. Sounds like she feels a lot of relief in being out of the relationship.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> @heartbr0ken ,
> 
> As I re-read your initial post, do you know what I see?


I was hoping that in joining this site and making this posting, I'd be able to read a piece of advice like this. I can't thank you enough for taking your time and putting your heart into you reply.

To give you some answers to the hopefully-not-rhetorical questions:

* I get that the post is ME-centric. My friends have told me for months that I protect her where I shouldn't have to, and that our relationship is abusive. My therapist stopped taking a neutral stance this week, saying that she's been abusive to me. I just wanted the post ME-centric to avoid going down these crevasses. 

* did she think the relationship was great? Yes. She told me she was in love with me first. She told me I'm the 1st man she's wanted to start a family with in her life (her wonderful, wonderful son wasn't planned). She told me I'm her favorite person in the world before I told her. She told me I'm the man of her dreams before I told her the same of her. She told me that she's never been happier than with me, and that she can't wait to spend the rest of her life with me. She was the one to get me comfortable with the idea of having a family - I thought I never would. She was the one to bring up marriage and moving in together, and buying a house together.

* I didn't even mention half the stuff I'm going through. I'm sitting here with a house I just bought for us. The sale closed after the breakup. It's a hollowing experience to buy a house for your family who's not even there for you.

* did she want me to reach out? no. she wanted to push me away. my actions are based on her explaining to me why she acted the way she did the last time we had a problem. she didn't want me to reach out then, because that forced her to deal with her pain of trusting men, and she promised to never push me away again... sadly, for some reason, she broke the promise.

* Did *she *miss the person whom *she *considers her best friend? Yes, she told me she couldn't hide that from her son, and they talked about it.

* Or did she want time to herself to figure out what healthy friendship even is? Also yes. She asked me for my friendship but only if I could be platonic. I ABSOLUTELY want that. 

* Did *she *feel heartbroken, or did she feel relief? She cried, fearing I wasn't ok. She called and checked up on me. I can only assume the heartbreak is on both sides.

* "Honor your promise!" -- I am, I will. That's why I'm stuck. Texting isn't working. And I'm honoring my promise. 

I don't consider it a broken promise that when she was sick, I dropped off food and medicine at her door. I told her I was going to do it before I came over, and when I dropped it off, I texted that it was at her porch. She said I was overly kind, like she didn't deserve it.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> this is true. You might be looking at the whole past relationship with rose colored glasses. YOU thought it was great, and she could not wait to dump you.....
> 
> once again, explain what you mean by PTSD?


Her diagnosis: Complex PTSD - Post-traumatic stress disorder


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> It seems odd to me that she was fine with you for years but suddenly can't see you?


tell me about it.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

heartbr0ken said:


> I was hoping that in joining this site and making this posting, I'd be able to read a piece of advice like this. I can't thank you enough for taking your time and putting your heart into you reply.
> 
> To give you some answers to the hopefully-not-rhetorical questions:
> 
> ...


People say things they mean in the moment and then feel a different way at a later time. Those things do not apply for the rest of said person's life. 

Her feelings have changed and frankly, you are acting like a sucker. 

Bringing her food when she is sick and has basically dumped you? She is losing respect for you. This is extremely unattractive behaviour even though it feels good to you to do something nice for the girl you cannot let go.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

heartbr0ken said:


> tell me about it.


What D. means is that she is making excuses to move you out of her live. If she wanted you, you would be with her. She doesnt want you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sometimes it takes a while to heal. I struggled with judging all men by my father for a long time. Your way is healthier, no doubt, but I get needing some healing time.


Agreed that we all need healing time. That's why I didn't date again at all for a few years after my first marriage of 25 years ended. I knew I wasn't emotionally ready.
In this case though, they have already been together for years, it's not a new relationship. If she isn't ready after a few years of being with him it's hard to know if she ever will be.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> People say things they mean in the moment and then feel a different way at a later time. Those things do not apply for the rest of said person's life.
> 
> Her feelings have changed and frankly, you are acting like a sucker.
> 
> Bringing her food when she is sick and has basically dumped you? She is losing respect for you. This is extremely unattractive behaviour even though it feels good to you to do something nice for the girl you cannot let go.


My interest was not to look like some shining knight. She's afraid of doctors and had strep throat. My sole interest was her health, so I brought her soup and half my meds (she got me sick with strep too).

I honestly couldnt care about putting on some forward appearance or some front. She was sick, and I don't need to show pride in those moments.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Op, so your friends and your therapist who all know far more about this situation that we do have told you that she is being abusive. It seems you either can't see this yourself or you know it's true but are ok about being abused.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

heartbr0ken said:


> Our relationship was great. It was the most fulfilling relationship of my life, and we had planned on starting a family. In her words, I'm the love of her life.
> 
> She has Complex PTSD, and in December and January, she suffered very much from her past traumas. So much so, that in January, she kicked all men out of her life, myself included.
> 
> ...


No. The first thing you must do is respect her wishes, and she needs space. The only thing you should ever do when someone asks for space and not to see you is to give them space. Honestly you would probably be better off not even contacting her. 

Persistence after being run off is stalkery. Have respect for her wishes. You do not know better than she does. She may have PTSD but she still has a fully functioning brain and she knows better than you what she needs right now so don't be arrogant and assume otherwise. 

Very sorry you're hurting and that the rug got pulled out from under you. Stay busy doing other things and give her all the rooms she needs because she is obviously not ready for marriage. But don't just leave your life in limbo. Stay busy doing things you enjoy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> My interest was not to look like some shining knight. She's afraid of doctors and had strep throat. My sole interest was her health, so I brought her soup and half my meds (she got me sick with strep too).
> 
> I honestly couldnt care about putting on some forward appearance or some front. She was sick, and I don't need to show pride in those moments.


Does she have no family or friends to help?
Why is she afraid of doctors?


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> It seems you either can't see this yourself or you know it's true but are ok about being abused.


I'm not ok. I'm really sad, i really hate myself for trying to stick with it. Im not going to argue with you on any merits of it, I have no logical reasoning


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> I'm not ok. I'm really sad, i really hate myself for trying to stick with it. Im not going to argue with you on any merits of it, I have no logical reasoning


Lack of closure is really hard to deal with. You need to focus on yourself, get a new hobby or something. It’s not easy, because time is what you need and there’s no rushing it.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Does she have no family or friends to help?
> Why is she afraid of doctors?


No, her family is far away. Her friends leach off her. I actually dont know why she's afraid of doctors or needles.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Lack of closure is really hard to deal with. You need to focus on yourself, get a new hobby or something. It’s not easy, because time is what you need and there’s no rushing it.


Thank you


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Lack of closure is really hard to deal with. You need to focus on yourself, get a new hobby or something. It’s not easy, because time is what you need and there’s no rushing it.


Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that she and I had a number of things we promised in case of a break up. I had 1 request that she promised. And that's that if we break up, we have 1 conversation face to face so I could understand why and I could get closure. She promised that we'd never break up, but I told her I needed this in case we did. She said that we'd never break up BUT if we did, we'd sit down and talk about it for closure's sake.

Sure I'd love to sit down face to face because I know her guards would drop. But say Im wrong this time, and it doesn't pan out. At least I'd get closure.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> I've cried over this. Yes, here's the exact reasoning:
> 
> In an argument, I changed the subject. That's her biggest trigger because of how her ex-husband would manipulate her. by changing the subject and controlling her. I caught my mistake too late, and it set her off. After a few days, we reconciled. And soon after that, she was triggered in a business meeting -- an investor made pass after pass at her. That triggered her to the extent that as it was going on, she told me that she can't have any men in her life until she heals.


I know it's not what you want to hear but I really think you need to get out of this situation. If not, you'll spend your life feeling as though you're walking through a minefield trying not to step on one while you know you are bound to step on one. Quite honestly, I believe in paying for my own actions and not those of other men. This will age you well before your time my friend. I mean come on....who doesn't change the subject once in a while? Doing so should not result in being ostracized by your partner.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Tested_by_stress said:


> I know it's not what you want to hear but I really think you need to get out of this situation. If not, you'll spend your life feeling as though you're walking through a minefield trying not to step on one while you know you are bound to step on one. Quite honestly, I believe in paying for my own actions and not those of other men. This will age you well before your time my friend. I mean come on....who doesn't change the subject once in a while? Doing so should not result in being ostracized by your partner.


She's been getting better


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

I didn't contact her at all in February. I know she needed time. I reached out to her this weekend, and she's been processing what I told her. My therapist asked me to send her a letter asking for closure, and I did just that. This is the 1st time in our lives where she hasn't responded to me. 

So yeah, here on the forum, I'm asking you if there's a way I haven't looked at to get her to talk with me. But to her, I asked her to give me closure and set me free. She's not following through with her promises of cutting me off or blocking me like she's used to doing. But she's also not giving me a clean cut.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

so what has a typical day in her life consisted of since tossing you aside? What has she been doing with her time?


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> I didn't contact her at all in February. I know she needed time. I reached out to her this weekend, and she's been processing what I told her. My therapist asked me to send her a letter asking for closure, and I did just that. This is the 1st time in our lives where she hasn't responded to me.
> 
> So yeah, here on the forum, I'm asking you if there's a way I haven't looked at to get her to talk with me. But to her, I asked her to give me closure and set me free. She's not following through with her promises of cutting me off or blocking me like she's used to doing. But she's also not giving me a clean cut.


Perhaps it's you that's not giving yourself a clean cut? As long as you're still around, looking for her, being there for her, she will never give you that "clean cut" you're looking for. It's time to do it yourself.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Since you are now making this about closure, what can she say that will make you say, “oh OK” and then walk away? 

Or will you be trying to counter everything she says with a counter argument and tell her that she is mistaken and try to get her back?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

heartbr0ken said:


> To clarify: we can talk. I can pick up the phone. We texted this past weekend. But when we're face to face, she let's her guard down. When we're on the phone, she can push away.


When I said to tell her that you miss her, I didn’t realize that you are in communication with her frequently. I retract that advice. It looks like she’s using you for reassurance and to feel like she has a plan B (you) to fall back on.

@Affaircare had some good advice, but I would not tell her that you will be there when she’s ready, because you might not be. You may come to realize that this is not what you want, after you have done some healing of your own. Rather than telling her that you will basically wait for her, I’d tell her that you hope she gets the healing she needs and that you are going to get out of her way for that to happen. Tell her good-bye. Tell her if she gets to the point where she is ready to truly commit and you don’t have to walk on eggshells around her anymore, to look you up and see if you are available, however, for the time being, you are going to block her and remove her from all social media, so that you can heal too. Then follow through and do it. Block her on everything. If she wants to find you, she can send you a letter. Give her your address, so she can write to you.



heartbr0ken said:


> Yeah, my therapist said the exact same thing this week. That she's holding on for a number of reasons.
> 
> We were both very clear about any possible break up - what we promise to do, what we won't do, and how we respond. And she hasn't followed through, not even on the things I disliked. For instance, she promised to block me, and when we talked about it, she explained that she wouldn't want to, but she would have to because it's a rule of hers: must block all ex's. And I'm not blocked.


This shows lack of commitment and investment in the relationship. She said she loved you and wanted a family with you, but that doesn’t mean that she had what it takes to be good at that or to commit to you properly for marriage.



heartbr0ken said:


> I see that. I'm not trying to make any excuses for her. She handled a lot of things poorly, and I don't deserve how she's handled this.
> 
> I'm also not able to pull myself away, in part, I feel I'm abandoning her. In part, I know she's hurting as much as I am.
> 
> That's why I'm trying to gain insight how to talk with her face to face so we can be on equal grounds and not have the barriers up


You can’t abandon someone who left you. She left. Yes, she is clearly hurting, but that is not your fault and it’s not your job to fix it. She wants to do this without you. You trying to win her back may not seem creepy or unhealthy to you, but it reeks of desperation and is a little creepy.



heartbr0ken said:


> First off, good sir... I have only 1 cat. Thank you very much!
> 
> To be honest, the day before our argument, it dawned on me that if we weren't committed, if we weren't going to get married and start a family, I wouldn't put up with the issues.


Marrying someone that you wouldn’t put up with her bad behavior if she wasn’t your girlfriend or fiancée means that she should not be your girlfriend or fiancée. People don’t get a pass because they are in a serious relationship. In serious relationships, the person closest to you should be the person you trust the most to have your back, rather than someone who feels free to mistreat you. You’re asking for trouble by putting up with that kind of behavior.


heartbr0ken said:


> I don't know why I'm trying so hard with *my girl*.. you're very right, there's a big component of damsel in distress.


 She is no longer your girl. I think that is a huge part of your problem. You haven’t gotten it through your head or your heart, that she isn’t your girl. She left you! She is gone. She is single. And so are you.



heartbr0ken said:


> But I've never tried to rescue her or heal her. I've tried to restore her faith that not everyone is evil, and not everyone just wants to take from her.


 You contradicted yourself here. Trying to restore her faith and get her to see that not everyone is evil is trying to rescue her. You are still doing it. It’s not working, because it’s wrong. You are doing the wrong thing. Stop trying to do for her what you cannot do, what only she can learn. You can’t insert this into her mind. It’s something she has to learn through personal growth and good decisions. This lie that you are believing is another huge part of why you haven’t been able to let go.



Diana7 said:


> In this case though, they have already been together for years, it's not a new relationship. If she isn't ready after a few years of being with him it's hard to know if she ever will be.


100% right there. Diana is right. If she doesn’t trust you after all this time, and after you bought a house to start a family in, she’s not going to get it. That’s because it’s not about you. It’s about her healing from the trauma she has experienced that has nothing to do with you. Showing her a good man is not the answer, because that isn’t really the problem.
Let her go. Move on with your life. I’m not a mental health professional, but this relationship looks highly codependent to me.



heartbr0ken said:


> I'm not ok. I'm really sad, i really hate myself for trying to stick with it. Im not going to argue with you on any merits of it, I have no logical reasoning


You are not using your head, because your heart is broken. Focus on healing your broken heart. She can’t do that for you. Let her go and focus on healing and building your life.



heartbr0ken said:


> Sure I'd love to sit down face to face because I know her guards would drop. But say Im wrong this time, and it doesn't pan out. At least I'd get closure.


Which is probably why she won’t see you. She doesn’t want her guard to drop.
She doesn’t owe you anything. Forgive her. Stop trying to get something, anything from her.

Here’s closure: Your ex-fiancée is a troubled woman unable to have a healthy relationship with a man, so she left you. She is gone and isn’t coming back. The end. Closure.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Tested_by_stress said:


> so what has a typical day in her life consisted of since tossing you aside? What has she been doing with her time?


She's been doing a lot of yoga and meditation.

The argument that we had was about her stresses of setting up her new business. The business hasn't started, she hasn't found a way yet. 

She's talked with her son a lot about her troubles. He suggested that she stay single for a good while, and she agreed that's what she should do. 

She reached out to me for platonic friendship, and I told her I wanted that. She was getting easily agitated with me, and that's when I pulled back all February. I didn't know what I was doing to upset her, so I pulled away.

I know that for the last couple of days, she's been lying low. I think the letter I sent her this past weekend really hit hard. My therapist explained it to me that it's probably going to make her grieve about walking away from our future together. And when she's having a hard time, she tends to stay signed off from social media.. she's been off most of the time these past few days (at least when I've been on). So in all, she's been laying low in the last 2 months.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> I appreciate the words of caution. I truly do. She's worth everything to me, and I knew what I was signing up for at the start.
> 
> I'm at a roadblock where I can't figure out how to talk without breaking the boundary I set up -- which I set up to make her comfortable with me.


Simple -- you can't. SHE NEEDS to put in the work so that she can move past this. Nothing YOU can say or do will fix this for her.
If you want, and she truly has PTSD, just send her a text that she should see a therapist who does EMDR therapy -- it's meant for PTSD and severe trauma.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Since you are now making this about closure, what can she say that will make you say, “oh OK” and then walk away?
> 
> Or will you be trying to counter everything she says with a counter argument and tell her that she is mistaken and try to get her back?


No counters. She can just tell me why, and I'll accept it.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Since you are now making this about closure, what can she say that will make you say, “oh OK” and then walk away?
> 
> Or will you be trying to counter everything she says with a counter argument and tell her that she is mistaken and try to get her back?


Also, saying that "she is mistaken" is emotional manipulation and shameful


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> No counters. She can just tell me why, and I'll accept it.


I question that ^^^^

The battle cry of creepers and stalkers and harassers are that they just need closure and if she would just meet with him and explain it so that he can understand why.

That’s why they hang around outside her window in the middle of the night. That’s why he drives by her house 50 times a day. That’s why he sends hundreds of txts and phone calls. That’s why he follows her around town. That’s why he goes to her work place or waits by her car out in the employee parking. That’s why he calls her friends and relatives - he just needs closure and she would just meet with him they could talk it over and work things out.

If you keep going down this road, you may be doing some booty duty down at the local jail cell.

If you don’t want to be getting butt raped down at the ol’ slammer, ya may wanna let this go.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I question that ^^^^
> 
> The battle cry of creepers and stalkers and harassers are that they just need closure and if she would just meet with him and explain it so that he can understand why.
> 
> ...


I'm not interested in you poking and prodding me. You're literally doing the thing that your "gotcha" question is setting me up for. You asked, I answered. You're unhappy with my response, and you're saying "well nuh uh! You wont do that! I don't believe you!" So don't believe me. I'm not following her, I've got more respect for my time than that.

I asked for closure months before it was needed. That's because I know myself, and I asked in the case that we'd get to where we are.

You can keep your disbelief, but please don't try to stir the pot. It's not working


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heartbr0ken said:


> No, her family is far away. Her friends leach off her. I actually dont know why she's afraid of doctors or needles.


Fear of needles isn't that unusual but fear of doctors pretty rare I would say.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Fear of needles isn't that unusual but fear of doctors pretty rare I would say.


I never really thought of it, in part because I also have a fear of doctors (mine is because I was in an accident 15 years ago, and they milked me dry). But I probably put very little thought to it because I chalked it up to her need to be 100% self-sufficient. And I mean 100%. And that issue she did explain ... because everyone disappoints her in the end.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

heartbr0ken said:


> I'm not interested in you poking and prodding me. You're literally doing the thing that your "gotcha" question is setting me up for. You asked, I answered. You're unhappy with my response, and you're saying "well nuh uh! You wont do that! I don't believe you!" So don't believe me. I'm not following her, I've got more respect for my time than that.
> 
> I asked for closure months before it was needed. That's because I know myself, and I asked in the case that we'd get to where we are.
> 
> You can keep your disbelief, but please don't try to stir the pot. It's not working


I’m serious. I’m trying to keep you out of trouble here. 

She told you why she’s not seeing you. You’re just not accepting it and said if you could see her in person you can work things out because that’s what has happened when she’s dumped you previously.

This can get YOU into trouble here. You are putting yourself at risk by going down this road. 

This kind of stuff made cute 1980s romantic comedies and some Top 40 songs, but harassment and stalking are taken seriously and considered crimes today.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I’m serious. I’m trying to keep you out of trouble here.
> 
> She told you why she’s not seeing you. You’re just not accepting it and said if you could see her in person you can work things out because that’s what has happened when she’s dumped you previously.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I really do appreciate your message.

I'm not taking action. I'm asking a forum _hey, I'm heartbroken (as my name says), and I'm unable to think 100% clear. is there a way to reach out?_ and the resounding response has been:

1) you're an idiot for starting the relationship
2) you're an idiot for staying in
3) run away
and
4) there has to be more you're not telling us

..and then I opened up about how I'm hoping for the Hail Mary, but what I'm working toward with my therapist is closure and my own healing.

So yeah, of course I'm trying to see what options are available, but no, I'm not going to break my promise to her (I'm big on promises ... and that's a big reason why I'm hurt, because in her 1st silence ever, she's breaking her promise to me... to release me in a way that I asked for). 

I mean, there's so many stringing-me-on things I didn't get into. I barely got into the emotional abuse. Ive cried during our relationship that I knew it was abusive and I couldn't take myself out of it.

I didn't expect to get harangued for saying "my girl" (which is a colloquial phrase and not a possession... also my therapist is a woman, so I was trying to distinguish between them). Geesh!


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> She told you why she’s not seeing you.


She didn't say why. I apologize for not knowing what level of detail is needed in forums. This is my first rodeo here.

She said what made her push me away. They we made up. Then some random guy triggered her to a level I've never seen. Then she asked for my friendship... then I started upsetting her and I didn't know why, so I backed off. So I'm confused big time


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

My girl is a term used to describe the woman you are with. You are not with her.

Look, I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time and that she broke your heart. Unfortunately, that is the situation you find yourself in. What you are asking for is impossible and unhealthy. The thing that will help you is to let go and move forward in your life. Hanging onto someone that everyone in your real life is telling you is abusive is unhealthy for both of you.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

I missed something that was asked on page 3 of the thread, if she had or hadn't invited me over.

She did invite me over before she asked for friendship. When I was a few blocks away, she told me that she was too nervous, and I told her that was ok. We'd work on things, and I'd go back home.

And she invited me over again after that, the day before the blow up where she said all men are out of her life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Listen, you should be the one going Grey Rock and radio silent on her. You should be the one moving on and not only not calling and txting her, but not returning any of her calls and txts or even blocking her. 

She’s the one that was being all Drama Llama and triggering fights and hysteric and not giving you crazy excuses on why she can’t see you. 

Now she’s playing you and still trying to extract attention and ego kibbles out of you and getting validation on how cute she is and how important she is to you - but she wouldn’t even meet you at the door when you brought her food and medicine when she was supposedly sick ( the real reason is her boyfriend was there but more on that later)

She keeping you hanging on and making you crazy so she can get her ego pumped.

But what’s more concerning is if you keep going down this rabbit hole, you’re going to get in trouble. Your either going to have a harassment/stalking complaint filed and run afoul with the law, or your going to get your azz whupped by her new BF. 

Which brings me to my final point and yes there is likely another guy(s). I’m surprised no one else has said it yet. 

Yes, I know she told you she’s taking a break from men at this time, but that break really only means you and does not include Sven From Yoga or Kevin From Sales. 

She might as well hang a billboard by the freeway that says she’s with another dude(s) because it’s that apparent.

This is assuming of course that you are not the crazy and abusive one that is driving her to edge of sanity. 

If you walk away from this and get back to some old hobbies and hanging out with old friends or maybe taken up golf, the worst that will happen is you may get some blisters on your hands from the golf clubs or maybe a sunburn from getting outside. 

But if you keep going down this route you may end up in the nuthouse yourself or in the slammer facing legal issues and lawyer bills or worse yet getting your a$$ kicked by some new BF you didn’t see coming. 

Walking away is good exercise and it leaves the chaos and drama behind you.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Grey Rock


I'd never heard of the term before. thanks


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

She likes playing the victim doesn't she? Wow. 

OP, you dodged a bullet with this woman, a big one. Your life with her would be you continually walking on egg shells, then something would "trigger" her and you'd be wondering "wtf" then beg for scraps like a hungry dog until she all of a sudden is over it, forgives you and you move on. Until the next time.

You won't get "closure" from her, that can only come from you. SHE abandoned YOU. She dumped you. You cannot abandon her now, she's already abandoned you. No reason in the world why you can't block her. Send her a text saying "I can't seem to make you happy, so I am respecting your wishes and stepping out of your life. I wish you all the best for your future and hope that you find happiness and peace", then block. On everything.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

frusdil said:


> Send her a text saying "I can't seem to make you happy, so I am respecting your wishes and stepping out of your life. I wish you all the best for your future and hope that you find happiness and peace", then block. On everything.


I agree with everything but the above. That is still giving her centrality and ego kibbles..... and she knows better and knows he is still pining for her. She’ll know it’s just a ploy.

If you to summon up the superpower, walk away and move on with your own life and don’t expend that energy on any kind of reaching out to her. Spend that energy to do your own thing.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I agree with everything but the above. That is still giving her centrality and ego kibbles..... and she knows better and knows he is still pining for her. She’ll know it’s just a ploy.
> 
> If you to summon up the superpower, walk away and move on with your own life and don’t expend that energy on any kind of reaching out to her. Spend that energy to do your own thing.


Good point. I tend to agree.

OP - don't text, just block. That is after all, respecting her boundary of "no more men in my life" is it not?

Also, for the love of Dog, do NOT allow her to downgrade you to friend. Lovers cannot turn into friends.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> SHE abandoned YOU.


That really hurts to read, but thanks for saying it.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> Also, for the love of Dog, do NOT allow her to downgrade you to friend. Lovers cannot turn into friends.


Oh purely platonic friendship is momentary with her. We've tried it once before and it lasted 1 day. I know it's what she needed to feel comfortable, and so I gave it. When she was ready, we were back to normal. Another time, she asked to take sex out of the relationship, and I was fine with that. When she asked to return, I told her I didn't think she was ready (I really didn't)... and she got so upset with me.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> She likes playing the victim doesn't she? Wow.


How was playing the victim clear to you? I don't ever want to bad mouth her, but yeah, it's in her mentality.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP,

I'm sorry for what your fiancee went through with her ex and I'm sorry for what you're going through currently.

Now, any and all who were in bad relationships, abuse, cheating, toxic relationships etc. need to completely heal BEFORE getting into another long term romantic relationship.

It's not fair to them and it's not fair to their perspective partner.

This lady wasn't and still isn't ready to be in a romantic relationship and that's not your fault of course.

None of us should ever become seriously involved with a person who is still "damaged" from a previous relationship or from growing up etc. Invariable, it leads to heartache and issues such as the one you're in now.

Now, you love this lady, I get that. Since you love her, you need to put her needs first and that's her getting healthy. This may mean she won't be with you anymore, even after she's healed, but her healing is the priority now and since you love her I'm sure you'll do what's needed so she's able to get the help she desperately needs.

I do hope she's able to find her way back to you, I really do but that's an unknown right now and here's the rub OP, you should NOT want her back until and unless she's healed. If she gets back with you before she's healed, you are guaranteed for more turbulence going forward and your odds of making it together will be really low if she doesn't get the help and healing she needs.

The two of you won't make it as a couple without her getting the help she needs, so I hope that happens, for both of your sakes.

Sorry and good luck


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> How was playing the victim clear to you? I don't ever want to bad mouth her, but yeah, it's in her mentality.


There is a HUGE difference between bad mouthing someone and calling them out on their crappy behavior.

Honestly, not calling folks out on things like this leads to more issues, not less. It's enabling that person to continue being that way and that leads to more issues as time goes on.

I agree, bad mouthing someone isn't good. If one is being truthful and calling another person out, stating the truth and holding someone accountable, that is a GOOD thing.

I'm in my mid 50's now and on my 3rd marriage.

Sadly, I played the victim too and I was damn good at it. My first husband was a doormat in many ways even though he was smart, nice, hardworking, a good provider, a person who got things done at work, he managed multiple departments, he was competitive, athletic etc. but I was feisty and I spoke my mind and I pushed and pushed and pushed.

I played the victim. There were double standards, things I could do but there was no way I'd let him do those same things.

I had a huge chip on my shoulder. I never wanted to be beneath or below a man and I'd squawk and chirp etc. The thing was, my first husband NEVER acted or treated me in a way where he thought I was beneath him.

It was MY issue, not his and he couldn't win. He didn't do anything wrong and I'd still get mad at him, make an issue where there wasn't one.

Needless to say this didn't work well in the long run, it never does. It took me a long time to "grow up", but thankfully I did.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> If one is being truthful and calling another person out, stating the truth and holding someone accountable, that is a GOOD thing.


She asked for that, and the 2nd time I ever called her out was in our fight that led to this. I told her I was upset she's taking our New Years away because that day meant a lot to me. She responded by name calling a lot. I knew calling her out even in a soft way would hurt her.. and it did.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> It seems odd to me that she was fine with you for years but suddenly can't see you?


yes. odd.

as in she found someone new, maybe.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> yes. odd.
> 
> as in she found someone new, maybe.


PTSD and Complex PTSD are very different. All her behavior is explained by her condition. It affects everyone differently, and it's very different from PTSD.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> It took me a long time to "grow up", but thankfully I did.


Thank you for telling me about your past and personal experiences.

When you were in the phases before your own growing up, what -if anything- got through to you?


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> She asked for that, and the 2nd time I ever called her out was in our fight that led to this. I told her I was upset she's taking our New Years away because that day meant a lot to me. She responded by name calling a lot. I knew calling her out even in a soft way would hurt her.. and it did.


Her name calling you a lot is wrong too. She's not acting like an adult. You should have called her out right then about her calling you names. Tell her the two of you aren't in 3rd grade on the playground at recess. Tell her the two of you need to calmly discuss things, hear each other out and work towards common ground.

Or don't and keep on going the way things are now. OP, you are NOT happy and I understand why.

Ask yourself, is what you're doing going to make either of you happy?

It's like this OP. When folks talk about infidelity, the advice is to NEVER rug sweep it, but to deal with it.

NO, this isn't cheating you're dealing with, but you are still sweeping things under the rug and not dealing with them and when that happens, it never ends well.

Your issues aren't just going to magically go away. You're trying to placate her... how's that working out for your OP?

It's not. I don't think you want to live like this the rest of your life. It takes two. You can't fix this by yourself. 

She'll either work with you on this or she won't.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Her name calling you a lot is wrong too. She's not acting like an adult. You should have called her out right then about her calling you names. Tell her the two of you aren't in 3rd grade on the playground at recess. Tell her the two of you need to calmly discuss things, hear each other out and work towards common ground.
> 
> Or don't and keep on going the way things are now. OP, you are NOT happy and I understand why.
> 
> ...


 Name calling, hanging up, blocking and unblocking. I called her out on those things. I guess I called her out on more than 2 things ever. Just 2 things that I knew would blow up in my face.

And you're right, she's got to fix the issues. She's never been in an equal and balanced relationship. Her ex-husband forbade her from working, and during the divorce, he took the bank accounts away from her (she pays him child support!!!). 

And I see where it looks like i let bad behavior go on, but i SWEAR I tried to work calm and slow with her. All the reading I've done on what she goes through taught me that.

Also right.. Im feeling desperate... I've lost the love of my life, and I didn't cause the split, and neither did the normal/sound side of her. And she's not healing yet.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> neither did the normal/sound side of her. And she's not healing yet.


That is an assumption that you really shouldn’t make.

What if it was the normal side that called it quits?
What if she _is_ healing now?

You can’t know for sure that what you’re saying is the truth. 
You are thinking that this _must_ be the truth because she did something you don’t understand.

Let her go.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> Thank you for telling me about your past and personal experiences.
> 
> When you were in the phases before your own growing up, what -if anything- got through to you?


Sadly, nothing my first husband did because he never called me out on things. He took my "abuse" for lack of a better word.

I can't lie and make up things that might have happened, but had he called me out on things, things would have been different. Maybe I would have grown up sooner, maybe he and I would have divorced sooner too because of it. I don't know because that didn't happen.

After my 2nd marriage ended in divorce, I really began to look inward at myself, I went to counseling and jumped in feet first in the deep end and began working on myself.

Something needs to get a person to that point in their life. My first husband just took what I was dishing out so I didn't ever have to stop or own up to what I was doing to him and to us, sadly.

I was born in the 60's and my dad ruled our roost. I loved my mom but she was submissive and I grew up just knowing I would NEVER be in that boat, be submissive, be the little lady under a man's thumb.

Guess what? My bf/fiance/first husband was nice, he was a gentleman, he was polite, he treated me with respect but I still pushed and pushed and blew up at him etc.

I'm embarrassed to say this, type this etc.

A few times my first husband would introduce me like this "Hey Bob, I'd like to introduce you to my wife, Debbie." My name isn't Debbie of course.

Later on I blistered him for introducing me that way. I told him I was Debbie first and his wife 2nd. I told him he needed to introduce me "Hey Bob, I'd like to introduce you to Debbie, my wife."

My husband only made that "mistake" a few times because he didn't want to face my wrath anymore regarding this.

Oh, my husband NEVER thought I or any other lady was below men or beneath him or other men. 

My husband didn't have an issue with this, I did but I still got upset with him.

In our first year of marriage, my husband was in grad school and I was teaching, the only one working. This was over 3 decades ago, no internet. We bought a new Honda Civic.

The dealership would mail info to us (couldn't email) as they wanted us to bring our car to them for maintenance etc.

They mailed things to us in his name, to my husband's attention and that PISSED me off. I drove down there, marched in and demanded they change that and mail things to my attention. I told them I was the only one working and paying for this car and they needed to mail things in my name.

No one there could help me so I took it up to the owner of the dealership and they changed it and began mailing things in my name.

Yeah, I had issues back then. I didn't take anything and I would buck up and make an issue even if there wasn't an issue to be made.

My husband was polite, he'd open doors, wait for me to go first and I did. All was well, but every once in a while I had a burr up my butt and I'd sneer at him and tell him I could open my own doors. He had no idea when that was coming though, he was just holding the door for me like he usually did and sometimes I just bit his head off.

It was ME, I had the issue, not my husband but back then I didn't see it that way, it was my husband who was wrong.

I wanted things my way, when I wanted them and that's not good, at all.

I'm not blaming my first husband now mind you, but I wish he would have stood up to me and called me out on the **** I was doing. I don't know what would have happened had he done that as that's not how our lives played out, but I needed an intervention I tell ya.

I wish I wasn't that way back then, but I was. I was insecure, I had body image issues, I took things out on my husband when things weren't his fault because I was upset.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Duuuuude. Stahp. This is painful. If you’re venting here, good, get the crazy out here. It’s what I do. But stay away from her. No means no.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Sadly, nothing my first husband did because he never called me out on things. He took my "abuse" for lack of a better word.
> 
> I can't lie and make up things that might have happened, but had he called me out on things, things would have been different. Maybe I would have grown up sooner, maybe he and I would have divorced sooner too because of it. I don't know because that didn't happen.
> 
> ...


That whole “submissive wife” thing is so evil and terrifying, it can mess you up for a long time. Yes, you were unkind and you were in the wrong, he didn’t deserve that. You obviously are well aware of that. But I can tell you, watching your mother take a dive OVER AND OVER, getting smacked around, cheated on, rolled over, it makes you angry, and you need help to get past it. I’m sorry you struggled, I struggled too and I so get it. You see yourself now and are better. Don’t beat yourself up, you tried to fix something that was too big to fix on your own. But if you see him, apologize. He never stood a chance. ❤


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

heartbr0ken said:


> How was playing the victim clear to you? I don't ever want to bad mouth her, but yeah, it's in her mentality.


Her entire behaviour is victim. All of it. Calling someone out on their bad behaviour is not bad mouthing, it's holding them to account. Mental Illness does not excuse horrendous, abusive behaviour and the person needs to own that. We are all responsible for our conduct. 



heartbr0ken said:


> PTSD and Complex PTSD are very different. *All her behavior is explained by her condition*. It affects everyone differently, and it's very different from PTSD.


No it isn't. And by everyone around her enabling this appalling and frankly, immature behaviour, they are actually being quite selfish. It may make them feel better, and make their life easier in the moment, but it sure as hell aint helping her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow. She sounds like a difficult person to be in a relationship with or even to be around. No wonder you were walking on eggshells. I'm wondering if you have sort of Stockholm Syndrome going on.


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Duuuuude. Stahp. This is painful. If you’re venting here, good, get the crazy out here. It’s what I do. But stay away from her. No means no.


Im just trying to take it all in. No worries


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## heartbr0ken (10 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Stockholm Syndrome


Ohhh that one's too heavy of a topic for me tonight. You guys have all given me a lot to think of as it is, and I appreciate it


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Not to pile on your pain of being tossed out, but dude, really, go back and re read what you've been saying.
If you could step back and read as another person what you are saying, what you'd get is the picture of a supplicant man, desperately waiting, orbiting around, pretending to be acting just as a concerned friend, when in reality all you are seeking is to find that opening that would get you back with her. 

Dude, that's seriously screwed. You're setting yourself for an even more painful failure if you continue, instead of detaching. And even if she would want to get back together with you. Man prepared yourself because eventually you'll be the one ending up in the nut house. 

In case that you don't know it, people with mental problems as they age they get worse, not better. Of course some do get better, but on average they just don't; which brings us to the next point: how can you be thinking of starting a family with a person that have mental problems? How can you be thinking of bringing children to this world (in the case that that's on the table, not sure if you said something to the effect) with such person? Don't you know of the chances of producing a child with mental problems due to genetic inheritance passed on by her? Is that what you are looking for? Please, regain your senses.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Dude what is wrong with you? I'm not trying to be mean but clearly you have something to prove taking up with such a damaged woman. 

Is she physically out of your league or something and you're trading off looks for damage? 

The old saying damage attracts damage, and damage plus damage does not equal fixed both apply here I think.

If you're healthy yourself you just don't involve yourself in these situations. I would take a long hard look at yourself and really answer the question, why did I enter into a relationship with this lady on the first place.

Good luck, but I think this one is done and you should accept that and work on yourself


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## Killi (May 12, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> Also right.. Im feeling desperate... I've lost the love of my life, and I didn't cause the split, and neither did the normal/sound side of her. And she's not healing yet.


Instead of looking at her issues have you ever thought abut looking at your issues? You are far too obsessed being a white knight which is not normal.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Killi said:


> _*Instead of looking at her issues have you ever thought abut looking at your issues? You are far too obsessed being a white knight which is not normal.*_


I didn't even read all 6 pages, but the word "simp" just kept going through my mind as I saw excuse after excuse being made for this woman by the OP.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Your situation will not end happily. You have vowed to stay by her side but who will stay by your side? Her? Not likely.

If you desire to a woman in your life as a partner for life it is not this woman you are presently fixated on. You will not be able to heal her and you will likely break yourself in the process. She will always be at risk of being triggered.

You do not want to abandon her. She has already thrown you out of her life for the most part. You still communicate with her as she does not want to block you. She does not want you around and she does not want you to move on without her. If she will not block you then tell her you will block her for her own good. She will survive without you. The only thing you are doing at present is encouraging her to take you for granted.

Interpret her decision to push you away as a sign you are not meant to be together. As a result of the abuse she has suffered it sounds like she equates all men as abusers. This perception is unlikely to change. You will always be made to pay the price for whatever transgression she perceives.

You cannot help her but you can help yourself. Part ways and let her go.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

heartbr0ken said:


> My interest was not to look like some shining knight. She's afraid of doctors and had strep throat. My sole interest was her health, so I brought her soup and half my meds (she got me sick with strep too).
> 
> I honestly couldnt care about putting on some forward appearance or some front. She was sick, and I don't need to show pride in those moments.


So, you saved her life? Or she would have.....been fine without you?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@heartbr0ken 

As much as you love her she's too broken. You can't fix her. She has to fix herself. It sounds like she's trying with a therapist but that process takes YEARS. You can't wait around hoping. By the time she's healed too much time will have passed & you will both be different people. 

Yes it sucks for you but nothing about this is in your power to fix. You can't love her through this. All you can do is take her at her word & move on. 

Personally I'd break the boundary she set 1 time for an ultimatum. Don't be a bully about it but set a face to face in a neutral but quiet location. Sit her down & explain that you love her but you are taking her at her word. If she can't trust you enough to keep you in her life while she addresses her other issues you are done, for good. Then you have to walk away & go NC. For your own sanity you need complete & total seperation from her so that you don't cave.


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## JWakk (Sep 14, 2020)

heartbr0ken said:


> I appreciate the words of caution. I truly do. She's worth everything to me, and I knew what I was signing up for at the start.
> 
> I'm at a roadblock where I can't figure out how to talk without breaking the boundary I set up -- which I set up to make her comfortable with me.


Please understand you can't fix broken only the broken can fix themselves and if they don't want to then just move on it will hurt less in the end.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

heartbr0ken said:


> grand gestures





heartbr0ken said:


> respect her boundaries


These seem at odds, IMO.


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