# How do you initiate change?



## kib (Aug 7, 2009)

I've been married for a bit more than three years, and as time goes by, it becomes harder and harder to talk to my husband in a meaningful way. I've done loads of personal "headwork", understanding more about happiness and good communication every day, but unfortunately, I have no idea how to initiate this with the one person I really need to communicate with. Here's a small example of what I'm struggling with.

My husband and Bob were supposed to work on their motorcycles in the garage on Saturday. Today my husband called from work to tell me that Bob will be bringing his wife. In other words, he made a unilateral decision about how I will be spending the next two days - cleaning and socializing with a stranger. I don't really care about the individual incident, it's not worth getting upset over and may even be fun, but I DO care about being controlled and manipulated as if my time didn't belong to me.

I don't want to argue about Bob and Carol. If I say something along the lines of, "I don't like it when you make decisions about my time as if I had no say in the matter", he'll say "like when". I'll say, "Like inviting ...." We will then be right there anyway, arguing about Bob and Carol, until he storms about and snarls, "Ok, I'll just uninvite them, is that what you want, will THAT make you happy (you controlling antisocial brat)?" He won't actually call me names, but he'll successfully turn the argument to focus on one minor incident, and then make me look petty and ridiculous and naggy for being so sensitive about 'nothing'.

How do you initiate discussions in ways that work - how do you make a person willing to communicate in a meaningful way, instead of bent on 'winning'??? I don't want to keep a journal of all the times he does behavior X so I have a better arsenal. But I'm fed up with Marriage As War, The Avoidance Years.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

From what I was told its all in how you say things. I am the LAST person in the world that should be giving this advise. I f maybe you start with "I feel" like you should have asked me before you invited them over I would appreciate it. It might not bring his guard up and make him get uptight. I am by far no expert.. Too many times couples try to communicate and end up getting lost in what they first started talking about. My wife tends to bring up other things when she gets upset. Its also a bad habit. Walking away without resolve will allow that to coninue until it wears on one or both of you..


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

kib said:


> I DO care about being controlled and manipulated as if my time didn't belong to me.


you need some boundaries. i have had so many arguments with my H in the past just like yours. then i started reading dr.phils Relationship Rescue, googled boundaries, and got some other books. it has changed everything. 

you need some confidence in your approach and in what you are saying. you need to let go of what he does with what you give him. If you say to your H, "Im not comfortable hanging out all weekend with strangers. I might come, but I might not." or whatever you decide to say, and he if he chooses to turn it around, throw a fit, and uninvite the friends, or whatever else, you need to let that go and not hold yourself accountable for his choices. you are not responsible for controlling how he reacts to you. you are only responsible for respecting your own boundaries.

in that regard, do not try and tell him what he 'should' have done. that is an infringement on his boundaries. if he wanted to invite the people, fine. if he chose not to tell you about it, fine. leave his choices to him and dont tell him how to act or what he 'should' have done. just respond out of respect for your own boundaries. 

above all listen to your own happiness and respect your own boundaries. what he chooses to do with that is his choice and you cant control that.

Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

kib said:


> How do you initiate discussions in ways that work - how do you make a person willing to communicate in a meaningful way, instead of bent on 'winning'??? I don't want to keep a journal of all the times he does behavior X so I have a better arsenal. But I'm fed up with Marriage As War, The Avoidance Years.


You cannot control another person or make them communicate in the way you like. You can only CHANGE yourself or your reactions, not the other person.

Sounds like your spouse is trying to be difficult... in which case, its not even a good idea to attempt being intimate.


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## Country Girl (Apr 19, 2009)

I agree with what others have posted. It is a very bad habit--one which is hard to break. It's going to be up to you to break the habit. You can't change another person by having discussions. Therefore, the next time your hubby pulls this just say, " That's nice Dear, but I've already made plans to xxxxx with xxxxx on Saturday." Then make yourself unavailable. He might LEARN to check with you first.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

There is a saying:

You can't change anything, you can only change your reaction to it.

I find that to be true.


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## kib (Aug 7, 2009)

Thank you for the advice so far. I realized reading back over my OP that I used some unhelpful words, like "should" and "make". I'm not that unenlightened, really! 

What I'm really asking is, how do you begin creating a valid communication pattern when you're dealing with someone who is very, very comfortable with non-communication. One of my latest book finds was Janet Luhrs' Simple Loving. (I already love Janet, for her Simple Living work  ) I've been through several other relationship books. Their advice all sounds pretty good, they all seem to hit pretty close to what I know is missing that I want in a relationship - primarily a sense of being in it, working on it, TOGETHER, but no one really addresses how you sit down with someone and agree to try that. "Honey, I was reading this book ..." "I have to pee." Uh huh. Ok, well go ahead then ... "and then I have to go out in the garage. And then I'll want to watch tv, hide in a magazine, play some computer games, have sex, talk to my buddies on the car forum, and go to sleep because I'm very tired. Very Very tired. And I think I sprained my ankle.

The really funny thing is, he has a buddy at work who's a mess at the moment. Bigtime marriage problems. And my husband really likes talking about that guy, where he's screwing up in his life, how he doesn't get it. It's the only avenue of relationship discussion that he seems to feel comfortable with. I go with it, but the other half of my mind is thinking "what? you KNOW this stuff and you still engage in all these unhelpful behaviors and then refuse to talk about them?" 

ETA: his mother is a marriage counsellor. How that for irony.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That ETA is funny. The one thing I would ask is how is your tone when you try to initiate the conversation, because it is not just the words it is also the tone.

I have been a horrible communicator with my w for a variety of reasons of my own. And it is funny that your h and even myself can see the actions of others but not see the same in yourself. I guess we are just blinded by something.

I agree with CountryGirl that you can say you already made plans etc. If that gets his attention, then that is the time to talk with him and just explain it in a non-combative tone that in the future you need to ask me about my plans, etc. 

Also, if he is like me he needs to learn to be a more active listener. Now when my w talks to me I focus on her and what she is saying - I don't let any distractions get in the way. That is a big part of it. So make sure if you are in the same room that you help this a little a long my turning off any tv or radio, etc.

Also, my counselor suggests starting with just the little conversations. Making sure to discuss how the day went, etc. But again with active listening on each others part. If you can talk about the little things first, then leads to easier communication on bigger issues.

I still love that his mother is a marriage counselor. That is so rich. LOL. Maybe you could ask her what his problem is - oh I know that would open up a whole other can of worms.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

My husband and I have avoidance issues also and we’re in counseling trying to correct them, it can be a very hard thing to break. When someone is used to avoiding the big things it’s difficult to force yourself to confront it head-on, it feels very unnatural to do so. Plus, human nature always makes us want to place the blame elsewhere rather than admitting fault. I would say that instead of focusing on the individual issues you might try going after the big one first: communication. Once this area is functional it will make the individual issues much easier to discuss in productive ways. You need to express how important this is to you without attacking or blaming him. Ask for his full attention for 15 minutes, if he can’t spare that amount of time right then ask when he can. Tell him that you feel you have been establishing a bad pattern of communication between you and that you need good communication in order for the marriage to be successful, plain and simple. Tell him what you think *you* have done wrong to allow this to happen and what you’d like to do to fix it then ask for his opinions. The pattern has been established and you both caused it, once you both accept that it will be easier to approach. Ask him to work with you to improve this area of your lives and if he says he doesn’t think it needs improvement stress that you do and you’ll be working on your end of things regardless but you need his help. Then really follow through. 

Bring issues up right away in non-confrontational ways, don’t let them fester. Use “I feel” statements. This isn’t just about starting the statement with “I feel,” that could be 'I feel you’re acting like an a-hole,' :rofl: It’s about really stating how the things he does makes you feel. “I feel unimportant when you don’t consult me in making plans for the entire weekend, I’m cool hanging out with Bob and Carol I just wanted to be involved in making the decision to do so.”

I agree with what most of Blanca said. You need to work on changing your reactions and let him take responsibility for his own.


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## kib (Aug 7, 2009)

I have been dealing with boundaries, and trying to take more responsibility for my own happiness. Honest! My old pattern was to "awfulize", to sit there in the shower or wherever and list every bad thing: this thing with B&C disrespects me because, i feel angry because, it's unfair because, it's my fault because, it's his fault because etc. etc. etc. I could stand there for an hour, just nurturing and reinforcing my negative feelings - and usually doing nothing whatsoever about getting rid of them. Lately, I've been working hard to stop myself and just say ok, this wasn't a good thing that happened, we know this, the question is not "how bad is it and why", the question is, "how are you going to handle this responsibly and get rid of the negative feelings." I really really do believe that happiness involves healthy, loving connections to other people, and that's where I'm trying to go with this. While I can see the point about boundaries, simply going your own way in your own bubble every time you are unhappy with your partner sounds like a recipe for divorce. ?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

kib said:


> simply going your own way in your own bubble every time you are unhappy with your partner sounds like a recipe for divorce. ?


well, ya of course. boundaries with someone you love is much more complicated then that. ive been working on mine for years. 

As far as getting your H to listen to you, and making a connection, that's a whole other topic. ive been trying to get my H to listen to me, too. but just like your H, he seems distracted and only half in the conversation. there's only so much you can do before you just have to step back and see things for what they are.


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## kib (Aug 7, 2009)

Love you artwork and your kitty, Blanca!

I think the 'listening' aspect is closer to what I'm trying to get ideas about. Just ... sigh. I absolutely recognize the need for both people in a marriage to have their own personalities, interests and boundaries, but to me, there are three parties in a marriage: the two individuals, and "Us". I married late in life, only because I felt that "us" was something missing, I wanted to go through life in partnership, I was tired of doing it all alone. I was really successful as a single person, I don't have a problem self-soothing or being in my own world, but I wanted real connection to another person. The irony here is that I hooked up with someone who has no clue about partnership. He is primarily about himself, and secondarily about supporting me as an individual, but where the hell is the "us"?

What I'm looking for feedback about, then, is how/if it's possible to create that kind of partnered feeling with someone who doesn't seem to understand what connection is all about. I feel much lonelier than I did when I was single, because now I don't feel comfortable seeking that level of connection elsewhere. I am making the assumption that, having rather little experience with the deep connection of marriage I *imagine* exists for some people, maybe I'm "doing it wrong". How do I start???


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

kib said:


> Love you artwork and your kitty, Blanca!
> 
> I wanted real connection to another person. The irony here is that I hooked up with someone who has no clue about partnership. He is primarily about himself, and secondarily about supporting me as an individual, but where the hell is the "us"?


Thanks. that picture is one of my favorites. 

i know what you mean. i went through life with friends, etc but not that one person i could share my life with. then walked in my H and he was so sweet (arent they all in the beginning). i thought he would be the one i felt that connection with. turns out, not so much. 

i guess im just trying not to fall for the 'grass is greener' syndrom. I always think of that scene from _As Good as it Gets_ when jack nicholson is walking out of the shrinks office and he says, "what if this _is_ as good as it gets." 

the loneliness is hard- i went through a bad spell of that. its a bit traumatic once the romance wears off and reality sets in. i always thought things would be different since i had the 'love of my life' by my side. turns out life has settled right back down to how things were, only i fight more then i used to. lol.


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## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

To me, your husband was being considerate to invite his friend's wife to socialize with you. He could have spent the weekend away from you and just spent it all with Bob. It's all in the matter of perspective. If you don't keep a public calendar, and you never said you dislike meeting new people, then how is your husband supposed to read your mind? I am also guilty of awfulizing and thinking everything my husband does is controlling me or contributing to a unsuccessful marriage. Next weekend, you plan the social calendar, and then it's all even.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Perhaps...during a downtime, not in the midst of a difficult convervation...mention to him how you feel. 
"I feel_____ when you invite people over without talking to me about it first. It's a little stressful for me to clean and visit with a stranger when I have ______to do." This is an example.

Do it when you are calm and in a relaxed mood. Just tell him how you feel. Then, be prepared to set boundaries, if he doesn't get it. "Oh man, I wished you would have asked...I need to _____ this weekend and won't have time to entertain."


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