# Marriage Counsellors good / bad ?



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

I know there are a couple of posters here who either are counsellors in one way or another and of course many of us have seen counsellors for help and guidance in our various personal situations

Sometimes I'll see comments "you need to change ...to an experienced infidelity counsellor" etc etc 

What exactly is missing then from your 'regular' counsellor then?

I saw a counsellor immediately after Dday a year and a half ago and as my experience of these matters was more limited then I didn't really think about it but upon reflection now with my larger experience of infidelity I remember feeling she was not that good. 

Many of us over years have gleaned enormous experience and info from this site itself to be very knowledgeable about this specific matter and I see many adverts saying 'experienced in 'couple counselling'.

But that can have a wide scope. How do you ascertain how experienced in these specific matters a counsellor is ? 

How do you know if they are trained ?
(and where would that training have been sourced) ?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Yes there are good and bad marriage counselors.

Some counselors will say a husband is at fault for a wife's affair no matter how good of a man/husband/provider/faithful he is.

Some focus on "needs" and meeting "needs" like that is supposed to justify adultery.

Some tell the betrayer that while the betrayed owns half of the trouble in the marriage that still does not excuse or justify infidelity.

Maybe it is how they were trained/schooled.

So yeah - good and bad- different approaches - works for some couples - doesn't work for others.

Crap shoot at best.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

In the UK marriage counselling often means Relate and they can be very hit or miss.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> In the UK marriage counselling often means Relate and they can be very hit or miss.


I know that's who I used last time 

But my question is where and how are people 'trained' in this specific field ?

Who trains them and how ?

Couple counselling is a pretty wide berth as a subject 

If you ask someone if they are trained in infidelity what does one expect from them ?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think I would ask if they were trained in infidelity, since all of them have some course-work covering that subject as part of their schooling. Provided, of course, that your therapist actually has a degree is something like psychology or social work. By the way, any good therapist will be happy to share their credentials with you, so that's something to ask about as well.

I think it's more valuable to know is if they are experienced in dealing with marital infidelity, what percentage of their practice relates to infidelity, and if they use a particular program or author's work in their infidelity counseling. You do not want a MC who does not deal with a lot of infidelity cases and does not have a good track record of helping couples successfully reconcile. You also want to know if they're using Imago or Marriage Builders or whatever other program or books, so you can do your own research and figure out if the approach they use seems meaningful and valuable to you and your situation.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Rowan said:


> I don't think I would ask if they were trained in infidelity, since all of them have some course-work covering that subject as part of their schooling. Provided, of course, that your therapist actually has a degree is something like psychology or social work. By the way, any good therapist will be happy to share their credentials with you, so that's something to ask about as well.
> 
> I think it's more valuable to know is if they are experienced in dealing with marital infidelity, what percentage of their practice relates to infidelity, and if they use a particular program or author's work in their infidelity counseling. You do not want a MC who does not deal with a lot of infidelity cases and does not have a good track record of helping couples successfully reconcile. You also want to know if they're using Imago or Marriage Builders or whatever other program or books, so you can do your own research and figure out if the approach they use seems meaningful and valuable to you and your situation.


That Rowan is very useful, very pertinent information

Thanks very much


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I don't think I would ask if they were trained in infidelity, since all of them have some course-work covering that subject as part of their schooling. Provided, of course, that your therapist actually has a degree is something like psychology or social work. By the way, any good therapist will be happy to share their credentials with you, so that's something to ask about as well.
> 
> I think it's more valuable to know is if they are experienced in dealing with marital infidelity, what percentage of their practice relates to infidelity, and if they use a particular program or author's work in their infidelity counseling. You do not want a MC who does not deal with a lot of infidelity cases and does not have a good track record of helping couples successfully reconcile. You also want to know if they're using Imago or Marriage Builders or whatever other program or books, so you can do your own research and figure out if the approach they use seems meaningful and valuable to you and your situation.


:iagree:

The only thing I would disagree on is that many folks trained in counseling and even Marriage and Family therapy will say they only got a little bit of training or coursework in regards to infidelity. And that can be corrected by experience and further training in infidelity.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Marriage counselors, from my experience, are just like every other group of workers/professionals. You will find good ones and bad ones. You can't be afraid to change therapists or mechanics or whatever if they are substandard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## berries (Nov 4, 2013)

Our problem when we were in marriage counseling is that my husband was lying to the therapist and me. So you both have to be honest and actually working on things. If one of you is just going through the motions, it is useless.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Relate in the UK say their counselors are all trained to a high standard (I think they say the "highest"). If you used them (or more accurately, they used you), you may recall that your first meeting was with a counselor who may or may not have referred you to another counselor that was felt to suit you and your needs.

I thought that this meant you would receive a high standard of counseling using a proven method based on sound principals from an counselor experienced in the field at hand.

What we got was a misandrist rug sweeper extraordinaire. Although she ended up leaving me in what could have been a dangerously depressed state, the events leading up to that session had been shockingly badly conducted and were done so by - we later thought - somebody whom had been unfaithful themselves.

When we tried to raise this with Relate (before what turned out to be the final session) our concerns were brushed aside and we were told we would have to pay for another session to raise our concerns.

It was from advice I received here that I "rumbled" the awful counselor and that is the message I took away from the experience.

If you choose a counselor, make sure they are familiar with the works of Professor Glass. Not only familiar with them, but understand them.

Make sure they will *not* rug-sweep and that they understand the subject fully.

Ask for a "map" of your sessions in advance. Certainly, Relate have a process their counselors should follow and it is deeply flawed. They seem to see infidelity as just another problem in a marriage. Certainly, our counselor repeatedly implied that a problem in our marriage had "caused" my wife's infidelity - even when my then wife didn't really go along with it and I objected vociferously each time the counselor tried to draw this connection.

Don't assume they are the experts. The problem is, most people think "counselor" is a one size fits all title and it certainly isn't.

Had I known all of this, we would probably have still paid for 3 sessions (first "assessment" then 2 to find out how horrible the counselor was), but it would have save a lot of money and a lot of time.

I truly believe that, if it were not for Relate my ex wife and I might still be married.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

berries said:


> Our problem when we were in marriage counseling is that my husband was lying to the therapist and me. So you both have to be honest and actually working on things. If one of you is just going through the motions, it is useless.


A good psychologist, very experienced in infidelity counseling, will after a few sessions be able to ferret out a person who is lying to them or who gives indications of still carrying on the affair. 

That's where the EXPERIENCE part comes in to play.


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## Roll Tide (Nov 4, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> A good psychologist, very experienced in infidelity counseling, will after a few sessions be able to ferret out a person who is lying to them or who gives indications of still carrying on the affair.
> 
> That's where the EXPERIENCE part comes in to play.


I highly doubt that is true. If so, the 'good' psychologists are very few and far between.

Does the Experience come from a psych who has cheated himself or herself?

I think MC is a roll of the dice, but you won't get anywhere if both parties don't want to work on the marriage (all in.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

During her affair my wife was using her Doctorate in psychology to work as a counsellor. Though not in marriage guidance, as it happens.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

My wife and I did IC for six months prior to couples MC. After a few months of MC, we would sometimes go alone to our MC. Our MC was pretty good. She didn't mind conflict. She asked hard questions... But.

I remember asking MC on one occasion... (this being well over 1 year of counseling)... "Do you really think she has been truthful regarding the her affairs... how many, how long, how many times they had sex together?"

Her response was very telling... "I think she is being honest. But, does it really matter at this point. She has been exposed, caught, shamed, and appears very remorseful." See the point... I was consumed by details. She could of cared less about them.

I kinda checked out after that. Our MC became all about burying the horrible past and moving on to R. I wasn't ready for that. We had agreed after 1 year post DD we would only talk in MC about her affairs. Then in MC I was chastised for bringing it up. Move forward RWB.

Note for all attempting R... If you want the details, the plain hard truth, really, want to know what exactly you are forgiving your WS for... DO IT EARLY! As painful as it (root canal like) your clock is ticking. As the months... to years drag by, it will become off limits, your WS, your MC, your family, your friends, hell your dog, will not see the relevance. No one wants to live in your Drama... Blame them?

Hear a truth... Only the BS can understand why.


.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

RWB said:


> Note for all attempting R... If you want the details, the plain hard truth, really, want to know what exactly you are forgiving your WS for... DO IT EARLY! As painful as it (root canal like) your clock is ticking. As the months... to years drag by, it will become off limits, your WS, your MC, your family, your friends, hell your dog, will not see the relevance. No one wants to live in your Drama... Blame them?
> 
> Hear a truth... Only the BS can understand why.
> 
> ...


So true!

I have had 3 MC's....the most recent being an initial appointment and she expressed shock that DD was 2 years ago and still an issue! Not a good start.

However, I do believe she is good....I have seen her for ic and family counselling with my kids. We will see though if she is any good for infidelity. 

Disclaimer: long post! Apologies.

I think in the UK that you can't rely on them having read Shirley glass or marriage builders. I don't know if this is on their horizon. I will ask mine when I see her next though.

I asked this same question as you when I was wishing for MC too...I have a similar thread. I have heard of some great MC's...but only from this site. I certainly tried to vet ours before going to our 1st one. I spoke to about 7-8, and I wasn't that impressed with their answers. Nothing difinitive or convincing. All a bit wishy washy and formulaic.

ALL counsellors are experienced in infidelity counselling. All will tell you so. I would imagine that is the bulk of all counselling, couple counselling, and is what keeps them in the money. Doesn't mean they are good at it though. 

I totally agree with Chris on Relate. We went to 2 Relate counsellors initially. Had 2 initial appts and went to the one we preferred. He just had a recipe though that seemed to be the same regardless of the ingredients. He took no notes. He ignored what we said to him. He caused more problems than solved. On a side note, we experienced a 3rd Relate counsellor. His mum! She accused me after about 6months, of not letting things go, making his life a misery by dragging it up all the time, blaming our issues on my childhood! This information of me needing to talk about it with him certainly didn't come from me! I sent some major long texts after it became clear I couldn't talk to her anymore (she had initially been extremely supportive). I knew it was probably what he was feeding her that caused this, but all I said of his actions meant nothing. The long texts came after his continual lying was finally uncovered, which I had initially insisted was the reasons for our problems when she was 1st 'accusing' me. It nearly ruined our (me and his mum) relationship. She is a lovely woman, she likes me a lot, and I think a huge amount of her. We get on very well, have done for a long time. She took my angry texts very well, I addressed it with her upon seeing her, apologised for my emotional state. She was very good. But....thing is, she was a Relate counsellor following her recipe book. I don't have any good experience of Relate.

We went as a couple in crisis to this 1st counsellor. At this point I still cared. Now I am disinterested. I am done. But ok to attempt an effort with Wayward with the current counsellor. He wants to go! About time! Probably too late though. He (1st Relate person) told us to spend time in the evening talking about the present, not the past e.g. our day, whatever. We told him we did this anyway. He ignored. Thus, our homework was to carry on doing what we do every day, and to go back in 2 weeks! Couple in crisis? Ha! We didn't make it to the next appt. We had split. He asked no questions of us to find out what the real issues were, asked nothing pertinent. Just a formula type session. We went again a few months later when we reconciled. Same session repeated, same homework, same time lapse in seeing him. F that! 

The other thing he did, which was really bad...time running out, 5 minutes left, we continued until time ran out. Then it was 'stop, time ran out', and so we left feeling like nothing was rounded off, left on a cliffhanger, left in the midst of issues, left feeling very unsatisfied and both tense from subject discussion. 

The current one is very different, she told us time was running out, brought it back round to some positives, suggested we didn't discuss til next appointment, brought an angry session round to some warmth and positives before we left. We left feeling ok, satisfied, looking forward to next session. 

She took notes, asked pertinent questions, made it clear she is NOT saying what he did was ok (the last one never did) , asked what the real issues were (the last one never did), asked what we wanted from these sessions (the last one never did), pointed out she was not a person with a magic wand and we would need to work hard on this (the last one never said this), that this is NOT an easy option (the last one never said this). 

I hope she tackles this head on. I will be tackling her if she doesn't. She is certainly the most promising so far. 

Most importantly, she is NOT Relate. 

Sorry for the length. Hope this helps. PM me if you want more info.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Chris, have you come across a British counsellor who directs their advice/MC counselling from having being knowledgeable on Shirley Glass? In fact, have you come across a decent counsellor that would be a respected member of this forum like I have seen a few US people describe?


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## javawave (Apr 7, 2013)

My wife and I were asked the same simple question our first few sessions. "Are you here for marriage counseling or divorce counseling" then she would say " it's takes two answers of marriage counseling otherwise it's divorce counseling." I think it was the accurate of any statements made during all of the counseling.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Remains said:


> Chris, have you come across a British counsellor who directs their advice/MC counselling from having being knowledgeable on Shirley Glass? In fact, have you come across a decent counsellor that would be a respected member of this forum like I have seen a few US people describe?


Hi,

Quite by chance I had approached an individual counselor just before my last session with Relate. I had personally gotten to a very dark place and it led to some scary situations at home.

Without having seen her in advance, I honestly don't know how I would have ended up after that final session.

I saw her quite a few times for IC and we had 3 joint sessions with her. She was firm, polite and fair and didn't swallow any of my ex's BS. In one joint session with her, the relationship moved on more than the many we had with Relate. 

She knew of the work of Shirley Glass, but more importantly had suffered from infidelity twice. One led to a break up and one a reconciliation (just 12 months prior). 

This was another major - and I think crucial - difference: she felt that I/we should know where she was coming from and was very open about her situation and past. 

I would never, ever, use a counselor that was not open about their own situation after this.

She was, in hindsight, exactly what I needed at that point and I count myself as very, very, lucky in having met her. Her methods aren't very sophisticated but they did what was needed.

I would recommend her without hesitation so please PM me if you need a counselor near Manchester, UK!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

After being on TAM, I know exactly what I would look for in an MC if I ever had to deal with infidelity or possibly any other problem related to my marriage.

But I think we know a lot of what is advocated here is not advocated in the professional circles.

I too am someone who is interested in the details. Otherwise, I would never have gotten any further with my fiance than "she was just a friend," if I could not enumerate the details and ask him well, if this is the way you treat "just a friend", then I must be your arch enemy (and going, too for that matter). My fiance still insists that she was just a friend, but at least he agrees that of his choices at that were "inappropriate." And this is one reason why detail is so important. 

No so called well trained PhD therapist is going to tell me otherwise. (and for that, I am sure he or she will say that I am stubborn, set in my ways and that's the reason why I may have problems with my relationships. In other words, a therapist will always have a ready made insult for you.)

Personal advisors can get very expensive so I am trying to set up my own vetting process before I sink a bunch of money into advice that could turn out to be useless.

It just seems to me that whatever makes sense to a poster here is what should be looked for in a therapist.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I learned a lesson the hard way: don't expect IC to help a WS "figure out" what made them turn into such a lunkhead. I thought IC for him for a few weeks before MC was a good idea.

On the contrary, IC drove more of a wedge between us and practically encouraged my husband to get out of our marriage, as if he wasn't checking out already with his selfish behavior.

Almost too late, I found this on the website of the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists (this is in the U.S.):

"Individual therapy may undermine more marriages than even poor couples therapy. Because relationship problems are the main problem people bring to individual therapists, individual therapists are treating marriages whether or not they realize it. Unless the therapist has values that support marriage and is careful not to turn the non-present partner into a villain, individual therapy can undermine a marriage. Every experienced marriage therapist has heard these stories: a spouse goes into individual therapy, receives support for a one-sided view of the marriage problems, and becomes increasingly pessimistic about the marriage. The therapist then questions why the person stays in an obviously bad marriage. The other spouse is clueless that the marriage is unraveling in therapy, and is not informed until it is too late. These therapists do not intend harm, but often their orientation is to the personal happiness of their individual client who is distressed in a marriage, without enough regard for the welfare of the other spouse...."

Granted, I take with a grain of salt everything he said about what the counselor said. But my husband actually said that his counselor asked him why he stayed with me if he was so "miserable." That's when I realized he had been rewriting marital history and he was probably doing little if ANY work at trying to figure out what went wrong inside of him - and probably a lot of complaining about me (upset about my checking up on him, he told me the counselor said that my wanting all his passwords was a "boundary" issue - yikes!). Like spending his therapy time complaining about me was going to promote reconciliation!!!

A couple big blow-ups followed, and remorse (which had ebbed and flowed) won out, and he quit IC. I found a MC through the above mentioned website, and we both like this counselor. It's slow going, but there is definite improvement on many levels.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I‘d have to agree with others who say to find a counselor that really knows the principles of infidelity or at least what is inappropriate in a marriage.

My Ww and I initially went to a marriage counselor for relationship reasons. But It was during this time that I found out that she was contacting other men she knew behind my back. Calling them on her way home from work....texting them while i was away visiting family.
I was floored by the fact she would do such a thing......all during the time we were going to see a counselor.

In the counselors defense, i would assume they can only react to what is being told them. 

So in my opinion, my experience hasnt been that great with typical run of the mill marriage counselors. 
Getting one like Glass or Harley, would be an extreme rare thing.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Appreciate the thoughts, informative and frank answers. Thanks 

As the opening poster may be worth mentioning the context I'm asking.

My very stbxw and I are almost divorced separated for a year and a half.
I want divorce and to be clear and away from her but of course we have children to deal with and so will have to have contact forever
(custody 50/50 share and I have the house etc etc. She's moved to rented for yr and half.) 

I'm even more angry and bitter since because there has been no unconditional remorse about any of her serial cheating just more lies and blameshifting about her infidelity going back over 8 years or so 
(Just briefly - 15 yr relationship, 11 married, 2 kids 10/11). She has BPD and historical mental issues mixed in. Most of her infidelities, affair partners, have been aimed at other married men some of who's marriages have been smashed to pieces for those other wives and kids - utterly appalling. 
Our lives were rich, she never had to work more than part time, I supported her with all her issues but plainly it wasn't enough. 'Grass was greener' syndrone even though she could not have got a more fullfilling life (as she now has found out btw!) 

I've had a few "I'm sorry" s but all with the after comment of "but you"........ 

So there's actually nil remorse at all. Her behaviour since separating has shown her to be actually a person who has a darkness within her I simply never believed it possible to see. 

I thought I'd get past all that especially with the passage of time but because in her head she _still justifies her actions_ I just get even more pissed at it all.

Because of this I have zero respect for her and only contempt. I get a sick feeling if I am in close proximity and suffer what I can only say are mild panic attacks when we are together, for kids, things. Dealing with her is a nightmare. I've never felt anything like this in my life, ever. 

I put a lid on it when the kids are around but it is extremely difficult. It's alien to me and deep inside I know it's unhealthy 

I simply have to deal with her better for the children and my own 'sanity'

The key to it all for me is I think to somehow find a semblance of respect for her but whilst she blame shifts and shows no genuine remorse I find I cannot give that. 

I realised a while ago I really do need her to show this TO ME for ME to move on. 

I have instigated good will in recent months and urged her to accept going to counselling for us both to discuss the past and hopefully for her to discover what real remorse is and to give me some honesty about what she has done without putting it all on me.

She's agreed to go, hence my questions 

As many say in here it is something she will probably never give me but I really need to try this I don't want to despise her forever, it's not healthy. I can also sense she needs to do this too 

I know for many of us this is actually not a complex issue 
you get caught with your hands in the till red handed 
you deny 
then you accept you are not perfect that 
you are capable of bad stuff 
you own up then 
you publicly put your hands up to it it 
you own it 
take the humiliation 
you self examine reassess yourself 
improve yourself 

For me this is actually the only way to move forward. If you don't accept there is that side in you then you never take responsiblity and have a sense of feeling you done nothing 'that bad'
and so will find it easy to do it again 

I would like her to own her side of this and then I'll see something different from her about it and will be able maybe to show her some respect for that action and deal better with her

Does that make sense to people?

I'm feeling a good experienced counsellor in infidelity matters is crucial to my stbx enlightenment and maybe we can have a different relationship to what we have now which is permanent hatred and bad feeling


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

what I can say is money should *NOT* be used to determine *VALUE *of the therapist.

I paid 100 dollars a visit for the first therapist and now I pay 15 dollar co-pay. I wish I could reverse the fee for these two therapist I had. When I have 20 dollars I tell my current one to keep the change, he doesn't of course. But he is worth every penny..

The only way you can tell is over sessions.. Is the therapist looking to cure/fix the current problem or looking to get to the root of the problem ?

I've gotten into some real deep stuff with my current therapist.. 

For example something simple that didn't dawn on me. I had some troubles at work. Basically being over worked and under appreciated.. No being pushed for a promotion, etc.. 

So what I did was, after a day at work I would go on the computer at home to escape the day.. I didn't see that included escaping from my family.. Was that the cause of my wife's affair and subsequent divorce ? No, but it didn't help that is for sure..

The first therapist was just looking to fix the affair.. But never got down to anything about me or my past and how it affected my current situation.. 

In the end, the therapist fixed the current problem with a bandaid but never got to the root of the problem. So the same issues kept coming up, thus the repeated affairs or attempted affairs by the STBXW..


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I don't know if this will help, but I wonder if she is so mentally ill that you may be looking for something (remorse) that she is actually incapable of finding in herself. Maybe, MAYBE with the help of a really good therapist, it would be possible. But I think it might be best not to get your hopes up. She sounds like a person who is really damaged. The "darkness" as you put it might be mental illness that has gotten so bad as she's gotten older, that she's really had what used to be called "breakdowns," and her mind may have walled off parts of her that used to be capable of accepting responsibility for her own actions.

A sick brain in hyper defensive mode often doesn't accept that there's anything wrong with it - everybody and everything else out there is the problem, not her. Trying to use rational methods to reach someone who's that irrational is almost impossible. Unless, as I said, an exceptionally skilled therapist comes along who may have the tools to do it.

I know this isn't fair (well, infidelity's fallout is never fair to us BS's), but you may want to consider doing some Serenity Prayer type work. Even if you're not the praying type, repeating it to yourself, kind of like a mantra (without God as the first word), could be very helpful:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference.

It's worth trying to find a really good therapist who MIGHT be able to get through to her. But in the meantime, accepting that she is who she is might be a good goal in terms of your peace of mind. Letting go of changing her might lift a burden of sorts, while you learn instead to accept this crummy hand you've been dealt and focus on playing it now. You may become a bit calmer, less stressed about having to "put a lid on it" when the kids are around, and you AND your kids may benefit from that.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> I don't know if this will help, but I wonder if she is so mentally ill that you may be looking for something (remorse) that she is actually incapable of finding in herself. Maybe, MAYBE with the help of a really good therapist, it would be possible. But I think it might be best not to get your hopes up. She sounds like a person who is really damaged. The "darkness" as you put it might be mental illness that has gotten so bad as she's gotten older, that she's really had what used to be called "breakdowns," and her mind may have walled off parts of her that used to be capable of accepting responsibility for her own actions.


Fair points hopeful, especially this. I feel this too that I'm trying to open up a door here that is effectively locked up. Lack of remorse is also a characteristic of a BPD person so I don't hold out much hope, but I feel I should try.



hopefulgirl said:


> A sick brain in hyper defensive mode often doesn't accept that there's anything wrong with it - everybody and everything else out there is the problem, not her. Trying to use rational methods to reach someone who's that irrational is almost impossible. Unless, as I said, an exceptionally skilled therapist comes along who may have the tools to do it.
> 
> I know this isn't fair (well, infidelity's fallout is never fair to us BS's), but you may want to consider doing some Serenity Prayer type work. Even if you're not the praying type, repeating it to yourself, kind of like a mantra (without God as the first word), could be very helpful:
> 
> ...


I don't know if I'm trying to 'change' her as such as I lived with her for 15 years and my not trying to do that actually helped her have a great life with my support but it does seem to have resulted in her never having really dealt with her problems - and of course the rest of us have had to take the sh!t for it

I was hopeful with a third party and some gentle persuasion she may look at herself with some honesty and then we can maybe both move onwards without so much bitterness about the past

We'll see


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Did she ever get any kind of specialized therapy (BPD, bipolar i asume)?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I lived with my ex for 11 years. He is father to my 2 chldren. We have been split for 5+ years. He has made my life hell for all that time. 

He blamed me to my kids for us splitting up (his actions caused me to throw him out). He has been verbally and physically abusive to me in front of them, verbally on a continual basis since we split. They now know exactly how to treat me, they have been shown very well. I have had no support from him on issues regarding them, no recognition that we need to work together on parenting. Nothing. I am now reaping the 'rewards' of what he has sown. I have a son who is verbally abusive, and been physically also. I am a single mother, my kids know they can do what they like because they are supported in their shi*ty behaviour by their father. I do what I can, but as they get older I am helpless. My son even said this to me, he knows I have no support in anything regarding his behaviour. He can behave how he pleases. He now lives with his father.

I am the parent that has done everything with and for them for their whole life. He showed little interst in being a father to them while we were together or apart. He has never paid a penny of child support willingly, or provided for them, or encouraged them to pursue hobbies or interests. Only when I met someone else 2 years after we split did he actually start to take an interest in them.

Some people cannot change. 

He reaps all the benefits of the good morals I have instilled in them, their thoughtfulness, their loving behaviour. I reap the benefits of his meanness, aggression, abuse.

He is a con man, a manipulator. He will never change. 

Don't put any hopes into this working with someone who cares so little and is so entitled. She is never wrong. And she probably won't be wrong to a therapist either. 

I hope it works for your sake. Just don't be devastated if it doesn't. Put things in place to protect you and your children.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Did she ever get any kind of specialized therapy (BPD, bipolar i asume)?


Borderline Personality Dis

Just before I met her she was internally treated, suicide watch self harming, eating disorders being the initial constituents.

Heavy meds then gradually weaned off them. Therapy continued off and on as did various meds over the years

She was very up and down with her issues but I 'treated' her by allowing her her main needs at home which effectively meant she would need to sleep for sometimes 12 / 14 hrs at a stretch which would keep her 'out' of our lives for two days a week _but_ this allowed her to function normally for the rest of the time or most of the time 

It was a 'trade off' that worked. Then her cycles of collapse and self hatred and doubt would start,
she didn't 'deserve' this good life we had, we should finish it, should sell everything as the future was always looking bleak.
But then the next morning she wake as if all this had never happened !! 
We actually had a great marriage for 9/10 months of the year but then it would collapse often, not always, with an infidelity as another man would 'understand' her better. Almost overnight he was superman and I was supersh!t( Such is the diverse fragile mentality of borderline), all very 'black and white'

Here's not the time to expound further as my original thread does that but it all effectively became an act and she simply never accepted real blame in it, never accepted that say an emotional attachment was as bad for me as a physical one - therefore it was not so bad after all. All somebody else's fault. 

I believe if she can finally accept this even after the event and take full responsibility and show some unconditional remorse rather than pointing the finger at me then I will be able to show her some respect and we can all move forward albeit it in a more amicable healthy fashion 

When we finished separated a year and a half ago my respect for her was none as it is still is. Get this thinking, I spoke to her a week ago and she expressed some anxiety at me for ...wait for it .....for showing little "compassion to her situation short of money" etc etc. I mentioned calmly about 'people making their beds and sleeping in them' and 'reaping what one sows' etc (such is her thinking) Still effectively lacking any remorse at all so maybe I will, as is said often, never get my 5 minutes 'in the sun' with her and her honesty.

Worth a go though


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Remains said:


> I lived with my ex for 11 years...........
> 
> He is a con man, a manipulator. He will never change.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Remains 

I won't be devastated if it doesn't work. I accept the chances are remote.

But I don't want to feel like I do about her forever. It would be so more pleasant to keep it low key and amicable for the kids.

And agreed her being / accepting she's 'wrong' about any of it seems almost impossible she seems to care little and is entitled too but I'll feel at least I tried


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