# Marriage advice



## JoetheDad

First Hello. I have been married for 21 years. I am at a point in my life where things are not as I would have hoped. 

Let me start by stating my wife is a good person and a better mother. Wife not so much. Our children are 20 and 17 both very well rounded as I am told by others.

Now the reason I am seeking advice. My wife Laurie has a hobby. This said hobby is Coplay. Cosplayers dress up as fantasy people and get together to share mutual interests. I do not have a problem with this. The problem I have is that to do this she wears makeup and colorful outfits. My attraction as a man is to a confident well presented ladie. Laurie has told me in our mundane life that makeup isn't who she is and dressing up isn't her thing. I am getting the impression that it is her thing just not for me.

My wife's hobby takes her to the other side of the state a few times a month. In the pictures she post on Facebook and Instagram she is all dolled up. As I look at said pictures she is doing for herself and others the one thing she blows off when I ask. Also some of the picture post she is not wearing her wedding ring. 

Mentioning wedding rings. A few years back I broke my ring finger at work. Unable to wear my titanium wedding ring, I proceeded to purchase one of the synthetic ones. Her first comment was she didn't like it. I always thought it was not the meaning, but the action. 

I am not sure why Laurie has decided it is okay to not put forth an effort. I have sent flowers, supported her hobbies, she drives a way nicer car than me and tried to the point that I am tired.

Realizing my emotional position. I looked up the 5 stages of grief. It would appear that I am grieving over my marriage. When I feel I have reached acceptance. Laurie my wife goes to an other convention. Gets all dressed up and I am back to anger and depression. I don't feel I deserve this and quite honestly I am growing very tired. 

I am 48 years old and there are day's that I am disappointed take I wake up in the morning. Suicide is a cowards way out. I would never kill myself. But with that said, I understand why people end their lives.


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## Mr.Married

Hey Joe,

Usually this is the part of life where couples tend to refocus on each other with the kids getting older and moving on.

Why don't you tell us a little more before I start giving you some suggestions. 

Your theme is quite common around these parts .... you are not alone.


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## TJW

JoetheDad said:


> Let me start by stating my wife is a good person and a better mother. Wife not so much.
> 
> I am not sure why Laurie has decided it is okay to not put forth an effort. I have sent flowers, supported her hobbies, she drives a way nicer car than me and tried to the point that I am tired.


I think you may have inadvertently given your wife "permission" to be as she is. You enabled her to be a "mommy" while ignoring her responsibility to be a wife. It seems to me that many women want to be "mommy" but not "wifey". Husband is an unfortunate biological necessity and once the biological "job" is done, the husband then becomes a "money object" to support motherhood and single life, another unfortunate necessity.

You have allowed her to have a better car, play in her hobbies, and kept on bringing her the attention while requiring nothing in return.
She has decided it's "ok" because you don't require anything of her, and no consequences which mean anything to her come from her choices.

@Mr.Married is quite right, you're not alone around here.

The very sad truth is, that trying to enact consequences which are meaningful to these women is often more painful for the husband than just accepting that things are the way they are, not going to change, and muddling on through life.

Losing their husband isn't meaningful. Because, they never really wanted him in the first place. The law will let them force him to continue his "provider" role, which now that there's no "sperm donor" function required, is the only reason they married him in the first place.


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## niceguy47460

I see some red flags on the play field here . have you looked at her phone to see if she is in contact with anyone . i have heard from people that goto these things that women are easy to have sex with . she maybe taking off her wedding ring so the guys do not know she is married and will approach her . you might want to look for messaging apps on her phone . 

Maybe you should follow her sometime or have a pi to follow her to and around said event . does she stay overnight at said events . if you can get into her facebook account and look at her messages i would .


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## Talker67

"Unable to wear my titanium wedding ring, I proceeded to purchase one of the synthetic ones. Her first comment was she didn't like it."

you purchased a replacement "wedding ring", without asking her first if she liked it?





SERIOUSLY?
You do not see a problem with your actions there?

Cosplay is actually a fairly common thing. And as it is mostly younger people doing it, she is probably enjoying fitting in with a younger crowd and being accepted. 

Have you thought of JOINING her? You do not actually have to dress up to go to a cosplay con. About 2/3 of the people at one are not dressed up. And there are Steampunk events that are similar, but no blue hair involved, that you might enjoy more.


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## JoetheDad

I have discovered I am that "giver type". I have spent the better of 30 making and growing businesses. I have made a number of life choises (parents sick and deaths) that benefit the greater good. Every single time losing more of myself. 

I have battled for everything thing that I have. Now I am 48, proud father and disappointed husband.


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## personofinterest

I believe a woman should put forth just as much (or more) effort for her husband as she does for everyone else.

That said, there is a difference between costuming and dressing up in regular life.

Question: did she used to fix up for you, and now she doesn't?

Or is cosplay the first time she started doing makeup, and now that you've seen it, you'd like to have that too?

Have you told her outright how great you think she looks and how you'd love to take her out all dolled up?


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## JoetheDad

She use to dress up. I don't want to cosplay, just because she dresses up. I would think if she actually love me she would. I would have been happy with her just putting on lipstick for me. Now if she does I feel insulted...... little to little ..... little to late. I never thought of her a stupid, but how hard can it really be to try just a little. 

I am at the point of dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I am sure alot of people go through this. Does talking ever help. I think very little of my wifes opinion right now. It is hard to imagine she just doesn't get it. Maybe she doesn't want to.


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## Mr.Married

JoetheDad;19884509
It is hard to imagine she just doesn't get it. Maybe she doesn't want to.[/QUOTE said:


> Sometimes there is a lot of truth in those words. Sometimes not....but sometimes yes.


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## Laurentium

JoetheDad said:


> I am at the point of dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I am sure alot of people go through this. Does talking ever help. I think very little of my wifes opinion right now. It is hard to imagine she just doesn't get it. Maybe she doesn't want to.


So, do you want to fix it? Or do you want an audience for your annoyance? 
Because there are plenty of people here who will join in with a chorus of yeah, yeah, you ditch the *****, that'll show her. People who will push you to further hostility. Some of them already on the thread. If that's what you're seeking.


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## sokillme

Time to have the hard talks. Better now while there is still a chance.


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## TJW

JoetheDad said:


> It is hard to imagine she just doesn't get it. Maybe she doesn't want to.


People frequently choose to put forth effort for things which reward them, and refuse to put forth effort for things which don't.

They fully and completely "get it". Your wife puts out effort to dress up for her hobby, because there are "strokes" in the hobby.

She has no interest in you, or "strokes" coming from you. So, therefore, there is no good reason for her to expend effort on pleasing you.
She receives what she wants from you because you are a "giver"..... and, she is a "taker".....


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## personofinterest

Do you love your wife?


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## JoetheDad

As to the question, do I love her, my heart says yes and my brain wants to explode.

Is there any advise as to how a "talk" should go. Because a small part of me doesn't want to hurt her and the larger part wants to go nuclear. 

Please honest advise.


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## Betrayedone

I'm in the "ditch the *****" camp..........On average......


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## Mr. Nail

Talker67 said:


> "Unable to wear my titanium wedding ring, I proceeded to purchase one of the synthetic ones. Her first comment was she didn't like it."
> 
> you purchased a replacement "wedding ring", without asking her first if she liked it?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?
> You do not see a problem with your actions there?
> 
> -snip- .


I've never consulted my wife about any ring I buy for myself. What am I her barbie to dress up? Wear what you want, She does. Good news is there is not much child support to pay, bad news is she's been absent from the marriage for years. And yes divorce does feel a bit like suicide. It's the end of a lifestyle.


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## anchorwatch

JoetheDad said:


> As to the question, do I love her, my heart says yes and my brain wants to explode.
> 
> Is there any advice as to how a "talk" should go. Because a small *part of me doesn't want to hurt her* and the larger part wants to go nuclear.
> 
> Please honest, advise.


Hurt her? Is she fragile or is it something else? 

Aren't there two sides to a relationship? 

What are you getting out of this relationship?

Are you a partner who counts too? 

Hobbies are very enriching. Though, activities that take up too much time and put the relationship in jeopardy are not. Especially if the relationship is already strained. 

Be prepared if you have not asserted strong boundaries. 

Here...

No More Mr Nice Guy and Boundaries in Marriage

Best


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## sunsetmist

Your brain wants to explode because it is full of resentment and probably feelings of neglect. I also think you are depressed. It is hard to feel so unappreciated. Yet your current feelings suggest you are wanting to punish her? Do you have a good relationship with your kids? They are on the cusp of living their own lives.

How long since you and your wife have had a good sex life? Intimacy and connection? Do/did you go on dates? Have you been so busy financially that you have neglected the relationship? Do you have hobbies or special interests?

If you could wave a magic wand, what would you wish would happen?


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## JoetheDad

We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting. No I have no hobbies (used to play hockey and Armored combat [SCA] had to quit, to many concussions). Neglecting the relationship was started by her. Back story - Laurie years ago went to New Mexico to visit elderly grandparents. She stopped dressing up before that. But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them. I was not pleased. 

As far as a magic wand. I wish she would put in the effort.


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## TJW

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting.


Sounds like a pretty dead marriage to me. BTDT. It's no fun. I'm not one to advise divorce, unless there is some egregious conduct, but it sure sounds like the divorce already happened years ago.


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## TRy

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting.


With no sex and no intimacy in years, now that the kids are old enough, why are you staying? Somewhere out there is a person that would desire and in fact need sex and intimacy with you. A person that would wake up everyday thanking God that you were in their life. That person is not your wife. 



JoetheDad said:


> But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them. I was not pleased.


Your wife dressing up and spending 3 days with swingers is about as big a red flag as you can get. Your wife regularly taking off her wedding ring, and dressing up to go out of town for her hobby is another red flag. When she is out of town, she has friends and a social life that does not include you. On her out of town trips she might as well be single. Her lifestyle includes few boundaries normal for a married person. She dresses to attract other men, and she will thus attract them. If she is not already cheating on you you, it is only a matter of times before she does. 

Hire a PI to follow her for a couple of days on one of her trips. Although expensive, it will only cost a fraction of what a divorce would cost. Heck, just the cost of a divorce attorney’s retainer will cost many times more, but now you will know what is really going on. Catching her cheating will give you leverage in a divorce well worth the investment in a PI. As an FYI, in my thousands of past posts to this site, this is only the second time that I have recommended the hiring of a PI. Your case is just so outrageous, that it warrants it.


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## jsmart

No sex in years? Dude, how did you let it go this long. She's completely detached from you. With you dropping your hobbies, you're going to be seen as boring and needy. Which is the complete opposite what attracts a woman. With her obsessed with this activity and the two of you about to go into empty nest stage, she's just waiting to jump ship.

You need to go into James Bond mode because it's very likely that she's in an affair with someone in this hobby. Dressing to the 9s and not wearing her ring when on these excursions is because she's on the hunt and doesn't want to be reminded that she's a married mother. 

Being in a sexless marriage has totally emasculated you. I highly recommend that you need to start leveling up. I'm talking about your appearance, (clothes, hair, beard, hygiene) Also get your but in the gym. Get involved in an activity that gets you interacting with other men. You need to reconnect with your inner warrior. 

I fear that soon you may be facing the breakup of your marriage. You need to re-attract her by being the best version of yourself. If after a good 6 months of REALLY working on yourself, she's not upping her game, then you will be ready to hit the market. At your age, a good, fit man, who's living a centered life, will do VERY well on the dating market.


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## anchorwatch

If this is all true, it appears your wife is living a separate life from you. 

This is not a marriage anymore. 

You can't change how she acts. You can only change you. 

You are the only one responsible for your happiness, not her. 

Nothing will change in your life until you do. That's the magic wand. 

You'll need to choose. 

Read the links I gave you, and the one in my signature. 

If you act you will be okay, with or without her. 

Take the sole responsibility for the life you're living. Do not allow her or others to decide how you will live. 

If you do nothing you will continue to wallow. 

Best


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

JoetheDad said:


> I have discovered I am that "giver type". I have spent the better of 30 making and growing businesses. I have made a number of life choises (parents sick and deaths) that benefit the greater good. Every single time losing more of myself.
> 
> I have battled for everything thing that I have. Now I am 48, proud father and disappointed husband.


Sorry you are in this predicament sir. However, you can take charge. I would strongly encourage you to read No More Mr. Nice Guy, and Grow a Pair. These will help you chart the appropriate course of action.

Now, as for your wife not wearing her wedding rings when she is out having her fun. I have on question...why?. I will tell you what I think. She is screwing around and sticking it out in the open on Facebook. Have you thought about having a PI tail her to her next event, or you showing up unannounced? 

I was like you with my FWW, and showed up unexpectedly at an open house for her place of employment and caught her across the room, with POSOM looking at me say to my wife”what is he doing here?” She was busted. You may want to consider the element of surprise in this situation.

Be strong and resolute.most of all listen [email protected] I would ask her to leave the house.


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## jsmart

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting. No I have no hobbies (used to play hockey and Armored combat [SCA] had to quit, to many concussions). Neglecting the relationship was started by her. Back story - Laurie years ago went to New Mexico to visit elderly grandparents. She stopped dressing up before that. But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left *she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them*. I was not pleased.
> 
> As far as a magic wand. I wish she would put in the effort.


Totally missed that. She's hanging out with swingers? 3 nights with these people? Damn dude. I hate to tell you but you know the chances that nothing happened are very slim.

I'm going to revise what I said in my last post for you to put 100% of your energy in preparing your exit plan. Get your finances in order, and really concentrate on leveling yourself up. Don't have any talks with her. Just let your actions speak for you. She's going to see you working on you, spending time out of the house, do NOT pickup any of the slack in the house for her.


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## sokillme

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting. No I have no hobbies (used to play hockey and Armored combat [SCA] had to quit, to many concussions). Neglecting the relationship was started by her. Back story - Laurie years ago went to New Mexico to visit elderly grandparents. She stopped dressing up before that. But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them. I was not pleased.
> 
> As far as a magic wand. I wish she would put in the effort.


The magic wand is you my friend. You only get one life, only you have the power to change it. You may be powerless to change her, but not yourself or your situation. Assume your agency, you always have had it you just forgotten.


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## Marc878

Well we all get to make the life we want. If you like being a martyr then proceed.

Is that getting you what you want?

You've firmly put yourself in the victim chair. Waiting for her to let you out?

Bud, she's fine with this scenario and isn't going to change a thing.

The only one keeping yourself where you are is you. Until you figure that out you'll continue to wallow.

Maybe you should wake up to reality now.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting. No I have no hobbies (used to play hockey and Armored combat [SCA] had to quit, to many concussions). Neglecting the relationship was started by her. Back story - Laurie years ago went to New Mexico to visit elderly grandparents. She stopped dressing up before that. But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them. I was not pleased.
> 
> As far as a magic wand. I wish she would put in the effort.


I guarantee that too much crafting and sewing is NOT the reason you haven't had sex in years. There is enough time in a day to craft 'til your heart's content and still do the horizontal bop.


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## JoetheDad

Well I finished working today. Managed to be mad enough to grow a set. Went home and blasted Laurie (wife).

I gave her options. She discovered during our heated discussion that she ****ing sucks. I will give her credit. Tried some rebuttals. That did not work out for her very well.

I wouldn't say I won. Nobody really ever wins in these cases. But she knows exactly where I stand. 

The sad part is I expected to feel worst. I don't feel great, just different. We will see what happens. It should be interesting.


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## Mr. Nail

Too soon but what's done is done. I just keep thinking that she is gone a few weekends every month. That gives you a lot of time to . . . . Well anything. You can prepare for divorce. You can sort out the finances and legal issues. You can sort and pack and store. You can start a hobby. Any hobby that doesn't involve head impacts. You need a hobby. You really need a hobby. Hiking, fishing, restoring muscle cars, Stand up paddle board, Rowing, Chess, poker, Music, Building bamboo fly rods, anything that interests you. Soon you will be waiting for her to leave so you can get to your stuff. 

Oh and do try to match her spending on your hobby. Dollar for dollar, hour for hour.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

JoetheDad said:


> Well I finished working today. Managed to be mad enough to grow a set. Went home and blasted Laurie (wife).
> 
> I gave her options. She discovered during our heated discussion that she ****ing sucks. I will give her credit. Tried some rebuttals. That did not work out for her very well.
> 
> I wouldn't say I won. Nobody really ever wins in these cases. But she knows exactly where I stand.
> 
> The sad part is I expected to feel worst. I don't feel great, just different. We will see what happens. It should be interesting.


Keep demonstrating strength. You will keep feeling better about yourself. What were the options you laid out?


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## Sosowa

TJW said:


> JoetheDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is hard to imagine she just doesn't get it. Maybe she doesn't want to.
> 
> 
> 
> People frequently choose to put forth effort for things which reward them, and refuse to put forth effort for things which don't.
> 
> They fully and completely "get it". Your wife puts out effort to dress up for her hobby, because there are "strokes" in the hobby.
> 
> She has no interest in you, or "strokes" coming from you. So, therefore, there is no good reason for her to expend effort on pleasing you.
> She receives what she wants from you because you are a "giver"..... and, she is a "taker".....
Click to expand...

 ummmm..


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## phillybeffandswiss

JoetheDad said:


> Well I finished working today. Managed to be mad enough to grow a set. Went home and blasted Laurie (wife).
> 
> I gave her options. She discovered during our heated discussion that she ****ing sucks. I will give her credit. Tried some rebuttals. That did not work out for her very well.
> 
> I wouldn't say I won. Nobody really ever wins in these cases. But she knows exactly where I stand.
> 
> The sad part is I expected to feel worst. I don't feel great, just different. We will see what happens. It should be interesting.


Yeah........

So, what was said?


Yelling rarely works and losing your cool doesn't either unless you had a game plan.


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## Cynthia

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yeah........
> 
> So, what was said?
> 
> 
> Yelling rarely works and losing your cool doesn't either unless you had a game plan.


Losing control of your emotions is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength. Yes, it's okay to let someone know you are angry, but you don't wait until it all builds up and you have no control and no plan for how to express your boundaries.


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## Marc878

Short term change doesn't mean much. Better have a plan.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Marc878 said:


> Short term change doesn't mean much. Better have a plan.





CynthiaDe said:


> Losing control of your emotions is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength. Yes, it's okay to let someone know you are angry, but you don't wait until it all builds up and you have no control and no plan for how to express your boundaries.


Exactly.

You don't want her to quote "act right" you want her to understand the problems, the new boundaries and the consequences. Growing a pair does mean you are not taking any more ****, it doesn't mean talking **** and yelling. My father used to dress people down and they would shake his hand afterwards. 

I aspire to be that good and I am not.


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## anchorwatch

You are mad because you worked hard so others could get their needs met and no one cared about yours. 

Use your anger for the strength and resolve to be in a better place, not to beat her up. Whether she comes there with you or not. 

Make the change! Exert your boundaries! Do not live in a false marriage. 

Don't turn back into Mr. Nice Guy. That guy who takes care of everybody but himself. 



Best


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## farsidejunky

Why are you angry with your wife?

Your actions have told her for years that what is happening is okay.

You have allowed your wife to be comfortable as she has continually taken for granted. Why? Because you are a "giver"? That is nothing more than justification for you to change nothing and demand change from her.

We see men come here all the time in situations like yours. 

You want to know the difference between those who come out on top and those who do not?

Agency. 

Your agency is what will either lead you to improve your life or not. Notice I didn't say your marriage...I said your life.

When you are ready, you will understand why it is time to stop giving.

And when she feels your giving stop, one of two things will happen. She will either accept it, and your marriage will die...or she will fight to return it to the way it was.

If it is the latter, that is your opportunity to tell her that if she wants more from you, she can start by doing more for you...and until she can show a sustained pattern of doing so, there will never be a return to your giving ways.

In other words, it's time to love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

But...if you can't handle that, you can be like many who come here...and see nothing change. 

The choice is yours. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

JoetheDad said:


> Well I finished working today. Managed to be mad enough to grow a set. Went home and blasted Laurie (wife).
> 
> I gave her options. She discovered during our heated discussion that she ****ing sucks. I will give her credit. Tried some rebuttals. That did not work out for her very well.
> 
> I wouldn't say I won. Nobody really ever wins in these cases. But she knows exactly where I stand.
> 
> The sad part is I expected to feel worst. I don't feel great, just different. We will see what happens. It should be interesting.


It is understandable to be angry...but your anger was misdirected.

Being angry at yourself and taking it out on her is not okay.

Accept the blame. 

Accept that you allowed her to treat you this way.

Until you do, you can't adequately prevent it.

You are a victim of your own making.

When you stop allowing yourself to be one...it all changes. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Sparta

Man I just gets worse just right when I think I’ve seen the worst of a man “not being a man.” I will never understand this. Women despise weakness more than anything there’s nothing more unattractive to them.! I’m too selfish and I always stick up for myself whenever I feel I’ve been wrong. I’ll attack whoever I feel who is wrong me. You let your wife go some couple’s house knowing she’s going there to get ****ed.! Then you let your wife come to You without serving her divorce papers and her belongings in bags on the front porch or on the lawn. Sorry to be so harsh but buddy.! Did you just read what you wrote.


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## niceguy47460

Dude she had sex with the swinger friends and hard telling how many guys she had in them 3 days . and she is having sex with guys at the events she is going to . if i was you i would kick her out and get a divorce asap .


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## phillybeffandswiss

JoetheDad said:


> We have not had sex in years. No intimacy because she is always sewing and crafting. No I have no hobbies (used to play hockey and Armored combat [SCA] had to quit, to many concussions). Neglecting the relationship was started by her. Back story - Laurie years ago went to New Mexico to visit elderly grandparents. She stopped dressing up before that. But for that trip she died her hair bright colors, took dresses and makeup ( odd I thought ). Then shortly before she left she told me she was visiting an old friend. In my investigation, the old friend is on a open relationship with his bisexual wife and they love brightly colored hair. She spent 3 nights with them. I was not pleased.
> 
> As far as a magic wand. I wish she would put in the effort.





Sparta said:


> You let your wife go some couple’s house knowing she’s going there to get ****ed! Then you let your wife come to You without serving her divorce papers and her belongings in bags on the front porch or on the lawn. Sorry to be so harsh but buddy.! Did you just read what you wrote.


Being harsh and changing his story are not the same. He let his wife go thinking friend and Grandparents. His investigation showed him the truth.


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## Mr.Married

..Edited ... I misread the post.


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## sokillme

CynthiaDe said:


> Losing control of your emotions is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength. Yes, it's okay to let someone know you are angry, but you don't wait until it all builds up and you have no control and no plan for how to express your boundaries.


Agreed it would be much more effective to have divorce papers and show them to her and say are you in or out, to paraphrase. Although it seem like she is already out at this point.


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## JoetheDad

Fortunately for me I don't lose control of my emotions. She as me how I was doing. I responded by stating I was angry. Laurie, as with what. I said her. Then the talk began. I told Laurie her I was through being a second hand citizen with no consideration. Laid out a small amount of facts about her actions. She tried to rebuke some of them. So I asked her to give me examples. She could not. So at this point I laid out numerous examples of what I (stupidity) have allowed. For the first time in many years I think I saw a light flicker in her (me now realizing) less than intelligent head. For you people who stated, I allowed this you would be correct. It takes two to create a problem in a relationship. 

I told her as far as her cosplay ventures. I told her she should just give me back her wedding ring and do what ever she wants. Because at this point. All her actions have consequences. I told her the truth. What she has done is burned the bridge between us. I am tired of standing on one side yelling. She broke this relationship. She can choose to fit ot or I will end it.

I have laid out to my stupid wife Laurie what the problem is and what I am going do. I didn't flinch, studder or weaken. She now knows our failing marriage is under a microscope. 

I explained calmly to my children that things may change, depending on they mothers actions. I told them I will always be there for them.


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## Mr.Married

Hey Joe, ( that just roles off the tongue ... Hey Joe)

Well done. Sometimes in life it takes a good smack in the head to realize what we have done to ourselves, why we allowed it, and how we got there. It's often difficult
to come to the understandings of our own responsibility in the matter. So many times we get so consumed with "what should be" and hang on to the threads of "what is".


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## She'sStillGotIt

JoetheDad said:


> Well I finished working today. Managed to be mad enough to grow a set. Went home and blasted Laurie (wife).
> 
> I gave her options. She discovered during our heated discussion that she ****ing sucks. I will give her credit. Tried some rebuttals. That did not work out for her very well.
> 
> I wouldn't say I won. Nobody really ever wins in these cases. But she knows exactly where I stand.
> 
> The sad part is I expected to feel worst. I don't feel great, just different. We will see what happens. It should be interesting.


 She's obviously worn the pants for years in your marriage.

You had a little hissy fit and let off some steam and stamped your feet which probably surprised her because you've been such a welcome mat for so long. But you didn't _change_ anything.

Things should be right back to the same hell they've always been in a day or two. 

Now, a man who lays down the law, stands behind his word and is a man of ACTIONS, well _*that's *_a whole different story.

Be _that _man instead, OP.


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## Sparta

Hey OP you’re not getting it.! You didn’t accomplish anything with your little tantrum all your meaningless nagging her... guaranteed that’s all she heard what is a bunch of threats from you carry no weight. And she knows this, your words are meaningless and don’t hold any power. She needs to be accountable for her horrible decisions and actions.! Because of your lack of actions in the past the only thing that will affect her is by you handing her divorce papers. OP I don’t think you have it in you to do the right thing for your children and yourself. No more talking to her act like she’s dead. Start doing things just for your kids and yourself. 1. thing on your list. Go see an attorney file for divorce. 2. have her served and removed from your life. 3. Start enjoying and living a good life. And I’m sure there is a wonderful woman out there that is waiting to be part of your life someday.


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## personofinterest

JoetheDad said:


> As to the question, do I love her, my heart says yes and my brain wants to explode.
> 
> Is there any advise as to how a "talk" should go. Because a small part of me doesn't want to hurt her and the larger part wants to go nuclear.
> 
> Please honest advise.


 The reason I asked this question is because you seem like a man who is dripping with disdain for his wife over make up and clothing. So either there is more to this story, or you mainly to look within yourself for some issues as well. If you are going to go nuclear on her over this, just go ahead and file for divorce. Reading some of your other responses in this thread leads me to believe that she is distancing herself from you because of the way you act.


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## phillybeffandswiss

JoetheDad said:


> Fortunately for me I don't lose control of my emotions. She as me how I was doing. I responded by stating I was angry. Laurie, as with what. I said her. Then the talk began. I told Laurie her I was through being a second hand citizen with no consideration. Laid out a small amount of facts about her actions. She tried to rebuke some of them. So I asked her to give me examples. She could not. So at this point I laid out numerous examples of what I (stupidity) have allowed. For the first time in many years I think I saw a light flicker in her (me now realizing) less than intelligent head. For you people who stated, I allowed this you would be correct. It takes two to create a problem in a relationship.
> 
> I told her as far as her cosplay ventures. I told her she should just give me back her wedding ring and do what ever she wants. Because at this point. All her actions have consequences. I told her the truth. What she has done is burned the bridge between us. I am tired of standing on one side yelling. She broke this relationship. She can choose to fit ot or I will end it.
> 
> I have laid out to my stupid wife Laurie what the problem is and what I am going do. I didn't flinch, studder or weaken. She now knows our failing marriage is under a microscope.
> 
> I explained calmly to my children that things may change, depending on they mothers actions. I told them I will always be there for them.


You have control, but you are sitting here calling her "stupid" and then immediately talked to your children? You are either ending or trying to fix your marriage, not impress us with your new found strength. Dress it up anyway you want, I see someone who lost control. When I talked to my wife, the kids were sent to the movies. Our discussion was private and remained that way because we worked things out.

You involved your kids and used them as pawns. IMO, you had a tantrum and lost control


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## personofinterest

niceguy47460 said:


> Dude she had sex with the swinger friends and hard telling how many guys she had in them 3 days . and she is having sex with guys at the events she is going to . if i was you i would kick her out and get a divorce asap .


 Could you point me to the post where this is light out as actual fact?


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## personofinterest

JoetheDad said:


> Fortunately for me I don't lose control of my emotions. She as me how I was doing. I responded by stating I was angry. Laurie, as with what. I said her. Then the talk began. I told Laurie her I was through being a second hand citizen with no consideration. Laid out a small amount of facts about her actions. She tried to rebuke some of them. So I asked her to give me examples. She could not. So at this point I laid out numerous examples of what I (stupidity) have allowed. For the first time in many years I think I saw a light flicker in her (me now realizing) less than intelligent head. For you people who stated, I allowed this you would be correct. It takes two to create a problem in a relationship.
> 
> I told her as far as her cosplay ventures. I told her she should just give me back her wedding ring and do what ever she wants. Because at this point. All her actions have consequences. I told her the truth. What she has done is burned the bridge between us. I am tired of standing on one side yelling. She broke this relationship. She can choose to fit ot or I will end it.
> 
> I have laid out to my stupid wife Laurie what the problem is and what I am going do. I didn't flinch, studder or weaken. She now knows our failing marriage is under a microscope.
> 
> I explained calmly to my children that things may change, depending on they mothers actions. I told them I will always be there for them.


 I am sorry, but this entire post just makes you look pathetic. She has some serious issues, but you need to drop the arrogance and look in the mirror.

Oh, and for God's sake please go back and remove your wife's actual name from all your posts. Are you really so up to say that you don't know what a badd idea it is to use your wife's real name on a public forum???


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## Lostinthought61

Please forgive me for coming in late to the party but can you better explain what a 48 year old woman doing with cosplay...what exactly does she dress up as and what do they do at these events?


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## personofinterest

Lostinthought61 said:


> Please forgive me for coming in late to the party but can you better explain what a 48 year old woman doing with cosplay...what exactly does she dress up as and what do they do at these events?


 This is very easy to Google. Just look up any Comicon or Deagoncon and the United States. And yes, middle aged and beyond people do this all the time period it's not just teenagers.


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## Robert22205

I'm sorry you're in this mess. Don't be too hard on yourself for working hard for your family (and loving and trusting someone to have your back and do the right thing). 

You are not alone. Check in as often as you need to for advice, support or to vent. 

You can't control another person. So focus on the person you can control - yourself.

Treat/spoil yourself: gym, massage, new grooming, clothes & car, a new hobby. Whatever makes you happy and improves the quality of your life.

Confronting her was a good first step. Now you need to continue to exert control over your life and marriage. You also need to feel a sense of being in control.

Set a time limit. For example, in 6 months you (you! not her!) will decide whether to remain in the marriage. You can extent it etc.

See an attorney about how divorce would impact you.
Set up IC for yourself asap.
See a doctor and tell them your story. Get help with sleeplessness, anger, and loss of weight.

Consider giving her some specific goals. For example, some minimal level of grooming at home or out for supper.
Suggest to her some romantic things you can do together (dancing, couples massage, dinner, weekend away).
(Stop calling her unintelligent or stupid. And leave the kids out of this.)

As a middle ground consider she reduce her activities and only play when you're present. Don't respond to me but rather discuss this with your IC.

Finally, studies show that people hear or retain 10-20% of what we say verbally. Probably less in an argument or when you're angry.
Consider periodically civilly summarizing your discussions, needs etc in writing so there's no misunderstanding.

If you still love your wife, then tell her so - but emphasize that you can't stay in a marriage where (among other things) you feel marginalized, taken for granted, and unsafe.


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## JoetheDad

You all bring up points of views that I am looking at. Some are helpful. As far as using my kids as pawns. You are wrong. My kids are wise beyond they years and already figured out there is a problem. Using my wife's name maybe in poor taste, but her actions have consequences. I have read all your comments and have determined that yes, I have guity of somethings, but her selfishness in doing things for everyone but her husband is distainable. It's not one thing, dressing up is the most obvious. With all of her postings.

Me being pathetic, to some point, I will have to agree.


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## personofinterest

JoetheDad said:


> You all bring up points of views that I am looking at. Some are helpful. As far as using my kids as pawns. You are wrong. My kids are wise beyond they years and already figured out there is a problem. Using my wife's name maybe in poor taste, but her actions have consequences. I have read all your comments and have determined that yes, I have guity of somethings, but her selfishness in doing things for everyone but her husband is distainable. It's not one thing, dressing up is the most obvious. With all of her postings.
> 
> Me being pathetic, to some point, I will have to agree.


So....since your kids are older, you are fine with putting them in your marriage conflict. And you will continue to out your wife by name because "actions have consequences."

I am understanding more and more why she would rather play the part of Danerys or a Pokemon than herself...

Your disdain and pride WILL effectively kill your marriage whether your wife makes changes or not. And she DOES need to make changes. But so do you, sir.


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## Mr.Married

JoetheDad said:


> You all bring up points of views that I am looking at. Some are helpful. As far as using my kids as pawns. You are wrong. My kids are wise beyond they years and already figured out there is a problem. Using my wife's name maybe in poor taste, but her actions have consequences. I have read all your comments and have determined that yes, I have guity of somethings, but her selfishness in doing things for everyone but her husband is distainable. It's not one thing, dressing up is the most obvious. With all of her postings.
> 
> Me being pathetic, to some point, I will have to agree.


It's never easy for a sheep to learn how to be the wolf. It doesn't happen in a day, week, or month. The most important part is that you have raised your level of
self awareness. That is the most important part.

If nothing else remember this: The person who needs the other the least in the relationship will always hold ALL the power.

The wolf cares not what the sheep wants. Every time you self compromise you become the sheep. Every time you establish boundaries you become the wolf.

Accept the fact that you will get hammered here no matter what you do .... take what you read and learn from it.

All post are options in your arsenal .....


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## JoetheDad

Your disdain and pride WILL effectively kill your marriage whether your wife makes changes or not. And she DOES need to make changes. But so do you, sir.

You are probably right, but if someone has wronged you and you are at the point of destroying a family. I think anyone would call out the person whether by name or not. Proof of point I am here asking strangers for advice. 

I may not be the take charge "man" I should be, but at least I am seeking different opinions. 

Calling her out is nothing compared to the damage she has done. 

As for my children, I have not told them anything they already didn't figure out. If I truly wanted to play my almost adult children. I could tell them a fraction of their mom's past and that would do it.

Do I have problems, yes, I here. Do I want to have a better future, yes, I am here. Will it happen ....... that is initially up to my wife.


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## sokillme

JoetheDad said:


> Your disdain and pride WILL effectively kill your marriage whether your wife makes changes or not. And she DOES need to make changes. But so do you, sir.
> 
> You are probably right, but if someone has wronged you and you are at the point of destroying a family. I think anyone would call out the person whether by name or not. Proof of point I am here asking strangers for advice.
> 
> I may not be the take charge "man" I should be, but at least I am seeking different opinions.
> 
> Calling her out is nothing compared to the damage she has done.
> 
> As for my children, I have not told them anything they already didn't figure out. If I truly wanted to play my almost adult children. I could tell them a fraction of their mom's past and that would do it.
> 
> Do I have problems, yes, I here. Do I want to have a better future, yes, I am here. Will it happen ....... that is initially up to my wife.


As I have aged what I have learned is one of the key things you need to be to be a good man is strength. YOU NEED TO BE STRONG. It takes strength to say enough, and then stick to it even though your natural tendency is to go back to old patterns, but **** that. You are a man be strong. It's gonna suck at first but still be strong. Honestly there is no wife who would rather go play dress up then have a husband who desires them. I don't believe that. Their nature is to be wanted, but when you can't call her out on her ****, when you choose the easy path of least resistance because it's easy for you, you are showing her that you don't care enough. 

All people want to be with people of conviction and strength, but I think it is especially attractive to wives with their husbands. That is assuming you are not an ass or a fool. In this case wanting your wife to treat you with respect is not that, it's perfectly reasonable. 

In this case hold the course but also figure out why you have been so passive. At the very least it's not attractive.

Then figure out if she cheated. If she did move on, if she didn't find out a way to go passionately make love to her. Give her a reason to care.


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## personofinterest

JoetheDad said:


> Your disdain and pride WILL effectively kill your marriage whether your wife makes changes or not. And she DOES need to make changes. But so do you, sir.
> 
> You are probably right, but if someone has wronged you and you are at the point of destroying a family. I think anyone would call out the person whether by name or not. Proof of point I am here asking strangers for advice.
> 
> I may not be the take charge "man" I should be, but at least I am seeking different opinions.
> 
> Calling her out is nothing compared to the damage she has done.
> 
> As for my children, I have not told them anything they already didn't figure out. If I truly wanted to play my almost adult children. I could tell them a fraction of their mom's past and that would do it.
> 
> Do I have problems, yes, I here. Do I want to have a better future, yes, I am here. Will it happen ....... that is initially up to my wife.


 I spent nearly 2 decades with a man who had more issues than I can even account. And he didn't care. I was never an a**. It's a choice


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## anchorwatch

Joe, Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a long time to get where you are. Correcting course will take time. 

Today you recognize you should have done something different yesterday. Tomorrow you will understand there is a better way to do the things that you did today. You are learning as you go. Life is fluid, that's the way it is. One step at a time. You're not under any timeline or defined behavior imposed by anyone. 

As for a better future, if you continue to move forward as the pilot of your own destination you will be okay... with or without her. 

Best


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## OnTheFly

You're making great strides.

I'm surprised the ''No More Mr Nice Guy'' book by Robert Glover hasn't been mentioned yet (if it has, a thousand apologies).

If you're not a ''reader'', there are plenty of youtube interviews of the author also.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

JoetheDad said:


> Your disdain and pride WILL effectively kill your marriage whether your wife makes changes or not. And she DOES need to make changes. But so do you, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have problems, yes, I here. Do I want to have a better future, yes, I am here. Will it happen ....... that is initially up to my wife.


Whether or not you have a better future is up to you, not your wife. You must man up and if you make promises as to course of actions, not threats. This will require you to to back up the words that come out of your mouth with actions. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words.


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## TAMAT

JTD,

Sorry you are in this spot.

My feeling here is that your W is still a sexual person, but has lost her attraction for you.

From what I have read of the Cosplay community, they are often bi-sexual, or while in costume anything goes as they are no longer themselves.

What I suspect happened is that your W had sex with that couple which killed all her sexual relationship with you.

I think you need to snoop on your Ws communications, VAR and polygraph her. 

Your gut is screaming to you for a really good reason.

I felt a bit of this myself seeing my W putting on makeup to go see friends and primping herself in front of a mirror.


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