# I would like to know how do you tell if someone has really either given up or just do



## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Hello happy Friday, I would like to know how do you tell if someone has really either given up or just does not care anymore?
I am asking because i feel that my wife has been over with us for some time now but just wont tell me so and i do not know why.
I try to talk to her about us and all i ever get is " I dont want to talk about us now" not to mention she gets mad at me then. After that I start to think this is not right, were supposed to be able to talk about anything but yet i do not feel like i can with her. 
I really am so sick of fighting with her that i completely stopped to see if this changes things to make sure it is not a me issue here and it is a her issue. Usually if we get mad she starts with the curse words, which inrages me because i feel it is disrespectful and is not good in front of the kids neither. 
I feel she acts like a kid when she does this, to me we should be able to sit down and talk things out or what not but that never happens. 
I feel she has no respect for me, I am not trying to get symphony here either, just trying to figure out if she has lost it for me, is it possible for her to get it back or should i start to think for myself and pull away?
She does not call me at work nor text me or hardly if that. When the kids go to sleep we just sit there and watch tv and if she needs something like a glass of water or a snack then she will talk to me. She will talk to me but it is about the crap on tv, nothing like how a friend talks to a friend. 
We bought new couches a love seat and a sofa, we got the love seat so we can sit together, well at least that was the plan i guess to get me to the store to buy them because since we have had them, i try to sit with her and she always asks me to move so she can get comfy. To me i am being pushed away, I am really getting fustrated here, I almost want to get a beer on my way home and i have stopped drinking back in september, that is how bad i am feeling now.....
I do not want to do any counceling until i know for sure she wants to be with me or not, she says she does but yet i see no change in her but yet i change my self 360 degrees but when i do this she does not even notice the changes. I ask her does it take you a month to see i stopped fighting with you to notice. She just says no and that is it. To me anyone that is normal would have started to talk to me in depth. God I almost want to kick myself for sobering up now, :rofl:


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

tony8404 said:


> I am not trying to get symphony here either


Ohhhh yes you are.

I could tell almost immediately what was going on with your wife, but I couldn't figure out why. It didn't seem you were going to tell us.

But then I got to the part where you did tells us.........


tony8404 said:


> i have stopped drinking back in september


Which tells a whole lot, which is that you have pushed your wife away with the drinking and all the trouble/problems you caused while drinking.

So now, you have stopped drinking and think everything should be hunky dory. Things are not the way you expect they should be and you are not rewarded for finally growing up, so you think your wife has given up on your marriage because she no longer trusts you after all the years you were drinking. Then, you want to control the process of progress when you say.......


tony8404 said:


> I do not want to do any counceling until i know for sure she wants to be with me or not


If you want to contribute to saving your marriage, you have to agree to do whatever it takes and not on your terms, but on her terms. You can't say you're not looking for sympathy if you think you are supposed to control her progress. She said she wants to be with you, so I don't understand you wondering if she has given up. Because she said she wants to be with you, I cannot answer your question since she already did. I can say that she is expecting you to prove to her you have really changed so that she can trust you again. Taking steps to work on your marriage will serve as proof. Marriage counseling is a good start. Would you like other suggestions?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree: w/Susan's tough love....

She was patient and stayed with you all the years you were drinking and is _still _with you. I would be very surprised if she doesn't have some pretty big walls built up over the years to protect herself from feeling unloved, unappreciated, hurt.

Instead of trying to force what you believe is the right timeline for her to plug back in, I would advise you to keep 'doing' ... when you feel irritated, say something sweet to her 'I am so grateful you stuck with me through all of this' ... smile, give her a kiss...play with your kids....you have a good wife...love her.

And please forget about the beer....even if she bolted out of your life forever it still would not be the answer...just more problems.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

:iagree:


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, of course all that have replied to me are correct. Finally this makes sense to me. This was what i was and have been looking for. I am not looking for sympathy from you guys or anyone to feel sorry for me. I just need someone to talk to and listen to me, i am tired of thinking and talking to myself. It seems to be getting me no where. I have friends but they have families and work alot as well. But when i do talk to them i do not want to call only when i have a problems.
I am not expecting things to be fixed over night cause i have finally grown up. But yet i feel that i have made some very big steps. I feel that she could at least open up a little to me, it would help me come along more or better then feeling like i am all alone like i feel now. 
She makes me feel that there is no hope at all, i feel she is just telling me anything to shut me up until i realize that she is only here to make me miserable and there is no hope but for me to leave.
I am not saying i cannot do things on her terms but that is the thing there is no communication, I feel like i am trying to get somewhere but with out a map. Not to mention if i go at her pace this will never be finished, i am tired of it being a work in progress I want to make some headway here.
Let me show you guys about this weekend and maybe you will see what i am seeing......
Friday night.... I was picked up, said hello to everyone, she tells me you need to put the a/c windows units in the windows its gonna be hot, there was no I missed you, hey honey how was your day, nothing just get on this. next we came home we all ate, my wife and kids were watching a show they watch and i did some cleaning. Kids went to bed, now just me and the wife. She jumps on the laptop and plays her facebook games for like an hour or so, no biggy. But notice we did not talk hardly at all. She goes to bed and i stayed up.
Saturday, We were supposed to all go for breakfast and we were all going to go to a really nice forestpreserve with a trail and what not. Well, i woke up early got donuts and coffee, kids wake up, wife still sleeping, I thought i will let her sleep in. She wakes up a little crabby why i do not know but she only had like 10 hours of sleep compared to me 6 hours.
I ask are we still going to breakfast, NOPE tomorrow morning. Okay i thought. I asked are we still going to the trails, YES. Again, hardly any talking most of the morning. We get to the trail and start to walk, not a word is said. I try talking to all of them but am ignored, i try to show the kids things about the trail that i found when i was younger and used to go there all the time with friends but they did not care. 
I try talking to her about this weekends plans but does not say much. We then leave go to a couple stores and that is it. Came home and kids took a nap along with the wife for 2-3 hours, she has now had a total of like 13 hours of sleep compared to me 6. 
Saturday night i rented 2 movies, the kids in bed we start to watch them. I tell her can i sit by you so we can watch the movie and god forbid maybe we can cuddle a bit. She was pretty cool about it, finally i was happy, seemed like we were getting along. I saw her text her friend saying finally were getting along. 
Now she wants to go to bed, here i am thinking maybe since it has been like 3 months without sex maybe i would get lucky. She says to me why are you going to bed, i said well i thought i would go to bed with you so we can get good sleep and wanted to lay close to you since things are going well. I did not try anything with her but thought if it would happen it would but no it did not. So after she fell asleep i got up and cleaned watched tv and went to bed.
Sunday, i wake up early took dog out for walk and to the store with me for coffee and breakfast for the kids, I also got my wife her favorite morning drink. Kids are up and wife still sleeping, it is no 7 a.m. Me and the kids are outside, i am digging in the yard making it look better kids are riding bike and dog going crazy. 
Got hot so we went inside wife finally wakes up around 9:00 a.m. I say breakfast to her, she says no its to hot i am not doing anything today but staying in and its to hot for the kids and dog to go out. I said geez okay. Did not do much at all, i worked on the computers in the house, did some cleaning, watched hawks game, watched wrestling, kids in bed, me and the wife only and there is no talking, i try to talk but she doesnt even say anything like she did not hear me at all. I get mad and fall asleep. I wake up and go to bed. 

I wake up this morning, nothing said to me. Go to the car to go get dropped off and she only says to me did you throw garbage in the can with out a bag cause it is coming out of the biggest hole in the can. I said oh man i will get it when i get home. Yet mind you the garbage can has had this hole for the last 6 months, she only has called the company one time since then, not to mention my wife is home all day on unemployment but she would rather have me who goes to work call from work on my lunch to solve this problem....... then She drops me off, i look at her and nothing is said or anything, i get out and accidentally slammed the door. Few minutes later i get a text saying "if you ever slamm my car door again, you can walk to your train in the morning then for now on". 
Thats funny cause its now her car yet when we had money problems my dad gave us the 3500 to pay it off to help us, i told her well, once you pay him back it can then be your car. So now i started to text her back saying could you get off you fat [email protected]@ and call the company up sometime in the next 6 months? She replies back FU! 
Funny thing is i did not want to send the text i was just letting fustration off by typing and was gonna delete it but my phone i guess has something in it if you leave the text long enough it gets sent. I tried to text saying i did not mean that it was only anger at that time. HA welcome to my world Sorry for the bad wrinting and grammar..


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

I really am trying so hard to be nice, to better myself for her and my kids... Believe me I know i messed up, i never want to be like that again, i missed out on sooo much of my kids growing up in the early years i hate myself and am now in tears... I just want to fix things.... I want no sympathy, i just want to talk to someone to fix this. My grandma passed away in april and it broke me, I was very close to her, when i was born till about 10 years ago when she got dimensia, just before i got married. So my wife never saw how i was with my grandma but my grandma always said how lucky some girl is gonna be, since my grandma taught me how to do all house chores and work which usually a guy wont do but i do it all... 
It hurt to much to see her without her knowing who i was anymore i could not see her cause it killed me, to see i had no control to help her at all, i just wanted to drink. 
When she died my wife did nothing, she was not by my side at all, she never hugged me, she never talked to me about it, she never said i am here for you... I stood at the wake and funeral all by myself while her and the kids sat by the doors, i never felt so alone in my life, i cannot imagine how it will be without my parents some day, i guess that will be when i know how it truly is to be alone.... After i was done being pallbearer i stood there and broke down, i fell to my knees and just gave up. After a while i got up and walked by my kids and just told them how sorry i am and that i was sorry for being the worse father ever. I walked up to my wife and hugged her sooo tight and told her that i was so very sorry for everything, that i do not want to be an ahole no more, i just want us to be happy and make things right, i want to be the man i have not been and the husband you deserve, i told her my grandma would be furious with me and i have to change. 
Well, she said nothing to me, nothing at all... This was done in front of my whole entire family.... My cousin that is about to get married has a similar girl as my wife, i walked passed him and told him, you better make dam sure before you do it that she is the one, you do not want to be like me.
Do you see now why i worry so much on where i stand and what not? I have no clue, about anything that goes on in her mind nothing at all. So i feel that she is done with me and i have no chance, cause nothing has made a difference no matter what i do, i was told to stop drinking and that would fix everything, well i did what now? Do i have to take a bulllet cause i would.


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

One other thing as well, about 6 years ago she cheated on me really bad. After that we had our second daughter things were supposed to be great, they were for a while. Then this past july, the guy she cheated on me with came around trying to talk to her again. 

When she had cheated she went nuts cause she got this guy to join the service, well after he had to leave, there were a couple other guys she messed with and i even believe she was preganent with one of the guys cause she suddenly wanted an abortion even with me saying i did not want to. 
Well, she ended up with having an atopic pregnancy and she almost died from internal bleeding, the doctor came in after the surgery and asked if i was brother or husband i said husband he turned and looked at me and said if you did not get her in here when you did she would have either died or had brain damage where she would not be the same. He then turned to her and said hes a good man. 
I took off work for a week to stay home to take care of her but first we had to stay at the hospital for a few days. Well, the guy that left in the service was trying to call her at the hospital room, he was trying to call her work and they said she was in the hospital. I picked up and told him to go away kid unless you want to get hurt or have harm done to your family you would be smart to keep going. Well, he came around this past july after almost 6 years... After reading all that i have typed, please tell me now, what the heck would any of you have done, if you were me? but yet everyone thinks i am the one that has the problems....


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

tony8404 said:


> watched hawks game


Woooo hooooooooooo go hawks....sweeeeeep!!!

Okay now that that's out of the way....

Thanks for sharing in more detail what is going on in your marriage....it does give me a different perspective than before. First, her infidelity...that is a huge issue...it can be a deal breaker just as addictions or abuse can. It takes a strong spouse to move forward after infidelity so it is really important that they are no longer in contact. 

What did she do when he tried to contact her? Is she responding or did she tell him not to contact her?

With all that has happened over the years it seems you have little or no emotional connection with your wife & with trust issues on both ends (her infidelity/your drinking) you will both need to work at opening up and being friends again...where you can talk, laugh and enjoy each other's company....I see through your posts that there is resentment on both sides....


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I dont think she has given up. women who dont care dont fight or get angry. she's just getting angry because she doesnt feel safe enough to show her vulnerable side to you. but because she's still getting angry, it means she wants to be able to talk to you about how she feels, she just doesnt feel safe doing that yet. She hasnt given up.


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Let me say this about the 5 or 6 years ago when she did cheat. After i decided to keep her and not divorce we decided to go on a vacation. Well, a week before we go actually a few days she called me at work saying she was going to old navy for clothes. Next thing i know she went to the naval facility to see him. I blew up asked why she went. She said she did not know, I said was it a farewell goodbye, she said yes. HA

This past July incident:
Well, it so happened to be a early sat morning when I left to get morning coffee. As i went to the door i saw a piece of paper like a reciept hanging halfway out. I thought nothing at first till i opened it and saw it say hey its me, email me soon (email written on the paper). I came back waited for her to wake up. 

While waiting i had already went onto the computer and saw he tried to contact her on her facebook email and the email we share together. She did not contact him, he came to her reason was cause he is back home now and is working at a naval facility i believe his touring is over. Well, he has a kid and girl firend/wife not sure but he decided to track my wife down come to my house and leave that note. I was mad... I confronted her and at first she thought i was setting her up and did not know what i was talking about. Then i should her the emails and said wtf

She said i do not know why he came around and why now? i said i feel the same way, not to mention it was again a week before we went on are get away, i had just stopped drinking my first time for a month and things were great till he came around. 
I had asked her not to contact him or reply back or anything, he will go away and if not, i will get involved then.
We went to my cousins graduation party came home early, i went to sleep i was tired she stayed up. Well, next morning i had that gut feeling something aint right. I was right i checked the emails and she thought she was slick and sent him an email anyway after i asked her not too.
It was simple and just said how are you and congrats on your kid, she just asked how he had been and that was it from her end. She told me it was a harmless email, then i blew up saying i had asked her not to and she promised me she wouldnt how do i trust you now. She got mad at herself which i was surprised. I then found him, and got his work number. I called there while on my way up there which is like 2-3 hours away. I called and asked for him but he couldnt get on the phone but i knew it was him. I said to let him know that since he wont leave my wife alone like i told him last time he is about to get his head bashed in with my bat, he eventually has to leave and come back to work and i will be waiting.

After a while i turned around came home, she appologized and gave me the whole i want nothing of him. I told her she needs to email him about it. She did, she typed up an email saying leave her alone, it was really mean too. Well, i kept all the emails and still am thinking of sending all of it to his girl in a box to let her deal with it. I want to go to the navy and have him get in trouble cause they dont play with stuff like that. but i have not as of yet but will if i see anything else. Now i have a logger on the laptop just incase. i do not check it but it is all there incase i ever do need it.

Yes, this is what i want now "you will both need to work at opening up and being friends again...where you can talk, laugh and enjoy each other's company...." You nailed it right there, that is what i want to do now and am waiting for but i think she is never gonna come to any of that....


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Blanca, thank you for that... i believe you are right and glad i read that cause it is given me strength.. i know she has not given up but nothing is changing that is why i am not sure. she says do this and do that things will be great... well i do all that and nothing moves an inch, i feel like a sucker right now, like she has me wrapped around her finger and she can play house/wife just to keep me quite. Another thing is this, when i stopped drinking i knew i was behind the wheel but it was not me in control, it was the booze, now that i stopped i am behind the wheel and realize i love her and i dont want to be without her not to mention i see the damage i did 
See, i have all intentions to stop being like i was but when i do i get no encouragement from her or any notice like "hey just want to let you know i noticed that your really trying and so far are doing a good job" that is what would keep me wanting to do more better nicier things to her. but when i put 110 percent in and am given nothing back it is hard to keep that fire going, I only have so much fuel but if she would start to put in i think things would take off....


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Okay, before i write another book here, I would like to know what you guys think on this situation. Last night when i got home i gave my wife some space. I did not try to talk to her until around 9 last night after the kids were sleeping. I thought things were okay cause when she picked me up i gave her a kiss and she sais she read my email i sent to her. Well, at 9 after kids went to bed i tried to talk to her.
Except everytime i try to talk to her i get avoided and pushed away, pretty much yelled at by her for trying to talk. She says she does not want to talk, does not feel like talking or talking about this crap meaning love. She always says some other time but this has been going on for god knows how long and i am sick of it. 
I do not know why she will not talk about us. How can things get fixed or get moving along if she is the speed bump now by not talking to me. It makes me feel like i am being avoided or pushed away or even like she is saying she wants nothing to do with me and is waiting for me to give up. I ask her do you just want a divorce she says no, she says she loves me but yet wont talk to me. What the heck does this mean? And why does she not come with a manual?
Another thing that bothers me is this, she talks to everyone else really nice but with me its short, with a deep tone and firm voice. Almost makes me feel like i should not be talking to her as if she is better then me and i was a bum. So she gets this text from her friend. It was about a pig roast, my wife replies almost a paragraph back to her but with me i get one word answers. She tells her friend "omg a pig roast i have never been to one before, sound like fun ect...ect.." I turn to her and say wow you dont talk to me like that and she just says oh shut up. She is lucky i did not have a bat next to me cause i felt like hitting a home run right then and there... 
Last night i told her i am done being an ahole for good, she says yeah right you say this everytime. i said i mean it let me just show you then instead of avoiding me and not talking to me, how can i prove it to you then?
I understand about me saying it over and over again but i finally feel like i have grown up here. I do not think it should take weeks for me to show her this. 
Now this weekend is a long one for me. I took tuesday off without telling her yet cause last week we talked about doing something just me and her together. So monday i came to work and requested the day off. Well, this morning i was gonna tell her until when i asked about this weekend she says, were not doing anything, i said why not she says she doesnt make plans cause i ruin them. 
I wanted to show her this weekend a good time and a happy time with eachother no bull crap. But now she doesnt want to.
Why, i think this is this reason cause of the text she got about the pig roast, she probably wants to go to that instead of anything to do with me. I do not want to give up but i am tired of running into brick walls.


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## Lars (May 3, 2010)

Man, very quickly;

I've been in your shoes - not as bad, but basically the same situation....I drank for a long time, did the damage, cleaned up my act, and expected my wife....who had been there all this time trying to make the marriage work, to suddenly fall all over me and see what a fantastic person I am! Ya know what? It doesn't work that way. It took years for the damage to build up, and might take that long to repair, if it can be repaired at all. I'm learning patience, above all other things. If you want things to get better, then leave her alone...when she says she doesn't want to talk, don't try. Let her come to YOU when SHE is ready to talk. Every time you push it, she'll back away further.At first my wife would laugh and talk to friends and family, but when it came to me - NOPE. I wondered why then it occurred to me: They aren't the ones who hurt her, who closed her heart up, who caused this mess in the first place. I WAS.
If you want your family back, your wife to talk to you, then back off and try to relax. Give her some room, let her figure out her feelings, and let her come to you when she wants to. That's about the best advice I can give you - because it's been the best advice that was given to me. SLOWLY and PAINFULLY the road as been, but it has been inching towards positive. THE CHANGES in ME, how I behave to my wife and family, and listening to what my wife says and needs are what has the ball rolling. Nothing else. Good luck to you - don't give up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tony, 3 months ago, you said you were getting rid of facebook like you did with myspace. What happened to all of that?

It sounds like you have not changed one bit in 3 months. You STILL do all the work and let her lay around like a pampered princess (which can make a woman hate her man, btw, being a doormat). I gather this is because of your guilt over drinking.

But didn't we give you a whole LOT of advice back then? Have you done ANY of it?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree: Wise advice from Lars..someone who's been there.



tony8404 said:


> I ask her do you just want a divorce she says no, she says she loves me but yet wont talk to me. What the heck does this mean? And why does she not come with a manual?


:lol:

2 things I got from your latest post....

1) You keep telling her on a regular basis you are done being an ahole...then something sets you off & you cool down and the cycle starts again...Actions speak louder than words...you need to get your temper under control or she will keep on keeping her distance and have no desire to open up to you ... because you are not a 'safe' person to open up to. She does not trust she can be open and honest with you and even when you don't like what she has to say, you will listen like a friend who cares about her vs. react with emotion.

By the way, I am not suggesting you do not have reason to be upset...and quite honestly I think the clarity you feel since you've stopped drinking has brought emotions to the surface and you do seem to really love her...I am just suggesting that if the result you want is for her to open up and emotionally close, you will need to convince her (by actions and words) that it is safe for her to do so...every blow up will reset the clock to zero.

2) Every time she plans something you ruin it....what does that mean? How can you show her, by your actions, that you will no longer be this way?

The 2 most difficult challenges for you will be to not get frustrated when she (or your kids) do not respond the way you hope they will and to be patient & not force a timeline on when things should turn around. However, you do have some impact here...make sure the clock doesn't reset to zero


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Man you guys are great. first off swedish, i never had a facebook or myspace account it was my wife that did, she had gotten rid of myspace and hardly goes on facebook. That situation has gotten better by at least 50-80%. It is the stupid texting that needs to get under control. I found out on the cell phone account one month she went 100.00 dollars over just on texting and tried to hide it from me not to mention she changed the plan for unlimited texting ( my wife shaking like a crack head -Must text my bestie-) lol. 
Lars, my friend that is the best advice i have been given so far. that totally makes sense to me. I actually started to think this through out the day today. I have backed off, i have not called or text or emailed her at all. But i believe you are right, I know i am ready and i guess i just have to wait for her to get into gear now, i cannot expect her to like i wanted but oh well. 
Yeah i do have a bit of a temper but it is only cause i am trying to do good and when the door slams in my face it pisses me off. especially if i am doing what she has been wanting me to do, i feel like i am being toyed with. 
Well, swedish- i am very handy, there is that saying if you want something done right do it yourself, that implies to my wife. I can imagine hearing the grass cutter trying to be started for hours on end. I told her to get her fat ass up yesterday in a text and call the garbage company that she called like 6 months ago and nothing was ever done about it. She was so mad at me, she wanted nothing to do with me and that is why we fought yesterday and now she doesnt want anything to do with me. She couldnt take the truth, not that she is fat, she is not but she is lazy as all hell see what unemployment does. lol and i work all day ha.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

tony8404 said:


> first off swedish, i never had a facebook or myspace account it was my wife that did, she had gotten rid of myspace and hardly goes on facebook. That situation has gotten better by at least 50-80%. It is the stupid texting that needs to get under control. I found out on the cell phone account one month she went 100.00 dollars over just on texting and tried to hide it from me not to mention she changed the plan for unlimited texting ( my wife shaking like a crack head -Must text my bestie-) lol.


I think you meant that response for Tunera....

Anywho...

Along the lines of what Lars is saying...it would really help you if you could do all of these things for you...because you want to be a better man, father, husband...without worrying about what you are getting in return...at least for a while...I don't mean indefinitely but honestly if you can keep your frustrations at bay you might find that she will begin to respond. If you could make it a full month w/o any flare ups...it would show progress...3 months start to look promising.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tony8404 said:


> Yeah i do have a bit of a temper but it is only cause i am trying to do good and when the door slams in my face it pisses me off. especially if i am doing what she has been wanting me to do, i feel like i am being toyed with.


Have you really sat down and tried to put yourself in HER place, while she dealt with your alcoholism all those years and just suffered through it? I really don't think you can get this handled, until you realize how SHE felt all those years. Not just say you know...REALLY put yourself in her shoes and try to imagine waking up every day knowing she was in for a crappy day. Because of you.

Get to that point, and I think she'll recognize that you have finally 'gotten' it. That may go a long way toward her caring again.

But it may not. She spent years learning to harden her heart to you out of self-preservation. She may in fact have just stopped loving you. That's what happened to me. After 30 years, I simply don't care any more if DH is happy or not.

But like I said, her staying at home all this time, with nothing to do...is a recipe for disaster. You taking on chores, not holding her accountable, not sitting down and coming up with a plan where BOTH of you take care of things.

Something I've noticed over the years. This is a generalization, but here goes: Women who are expected to do nothing, DO nothing. And grow to resent their husband for allowing it. A lot of these women go on to have affairs. What else is there to do? Husband doesn't expect anything from her. My advice is it's time to sit down and start having real conversations. Not ones where you try to 'get' her to say what you want to hear, but where you both talk and listen and arrive at a point you can both deal with.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

tony8404 said:


> See, i have all intentions to stop being like i was but when i do i get no encouragement from her or any notice like "hey just want to let you know i noticed that your really trying and so far are doing a good job" that is what would keep me wanting to do more better nicier things to her. but when i put 110 percent in and am given nothing back it is hard to keep that fire going, I only have so much fuel but if she would start to put in i think things would take off....


Im sure my husband feels the same way. a long time ago when my H first started going to counseling i asked him if he liked his counselor. he looked straight ahead and said, "She said she believes i can beat this" and his eyes kind of teared up. I just stared at him. I had gotten so wrapped up in my hatred and resentment that i completely did not recognize him as his own person with his own struggles. He had become quite literally an object for my happiness. I realized in that moment how alone and sad he must feel battling this with someone literally screaming down his throat at every misstep. at the time i was still too resentful to let that feeling replace my hatred. But rest assured that your wife has little moments like this, too. She's just not ready to move on yet. 

I think when a person feels like the victim in a situation, like your wife does, its hard to remember that the victimizer is not a victimizer at all. It took me a long time, many years, to fully realize that i had objectified my husband. So i feel for you because i have seen the loneliness my husband has endured fighting his own battles without any support from me.

Try to find support. You need someone to help you and encourage you. Someone that cares just about you and your struggles. Im sorry to tell you that it will not be your wife. Have you considered going to A.A meetings?


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, I wish last night would have been a better night. I let her be all day I did not try to bother her at all, she had called me twice but i was busy and not near the phone but then she texted me saying she sent me an email and if i could print it out for her before i leave work. So i thought oh yeah, you talk to me now cause you need something right? 
so i printed the dam thing out and texted her back saying "printed it" about 15 minutes later she calls and she is being all nice to me. First thing she says why are you crabby now, i said I am not i am tired of fighting and I am not sure what mood you are in and not sure how you will be when i get home. 
So i am on my train and she texts me again saying "thank you honey :O)" I did not want to jump on this cause i still felt she was not happy or there is more to it then this. Well, i get home and now i am getting happy, i tell her i was sorry and that lets stop and just make it happen i give up.
Then i tell her that i leave work at 2 on friday and that i had taken tuesday off so we can all do something or just me and her. She then drops the bomb and says "Oh well i told my friend me and the girls were going to go to her pig roast" 
YES I BLEW UP, I said are you kidding me? last week we said we were going to do something and now this, WTF. she is like well i did not think you wanted to go with, i said no i do not want to go with we are supposed to do something either as a family or just me and you.... She yells back saying fine but i am gonna tell her your taking us out of town and you better take us out of town. I said how the F cares what you tell her, all you have to say is were not gonna make it she needs no fing excuse from us.
Then i tell her you know what then forget it...... then i went up to bed at like 7 and woke up at 10 when she was getting into bed. She then starts to yell at me because the front door was not locked but yet it was closed. I said i have not been down there since we got home at 6, how the hell is that my fault. I told her that i was going to go back down to check but you started this friends crap again so dont blame this on me dammit, you knew i made plans with you.
So now this morning i tried to be nice, i said good morning and asked if she was crabby, she says yes. I left her alone.

Please tell me if i am wrong about what i want to tell her today. I want to tell her that i am sorry but "family comes first not friends" not to mention "there our kids not just yours like you think" am i correct on this cause if not then i am crazy. I know i need to put my foot down but i do not want to fight, like i said i give up on that. 
Now so i am not a ahole anymore and i am not trying to be one today either but what would seem like a reasonable solution? should i tell her look i know you want to go to the roast so let us do something friday sat and come home sunday go to that and then monday we can do something with the kids? or should i say screw it its family weekend? I am a nice guy but like you guys had said i need to stop being walked on here. 
You guys have given me great advice these past few days and thank you so much because of that i have moved along so much now because i was able to listen to your guys analizations and what not. I do not want to be an ahole to her but i think she needs to stop this planning with out asking me to or consult with me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You should never have yelled at her. No matter what. Nice guys don't yell; they use their brains to figure out how to get along. And you need to give her a REASON to want to make plans with you and not her friends.

We do what feels good. Avoid what doesn't. She chose to make plans with her friends because being around you doesn't feel good. THAT is up to you.


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks turnera, Man you are right now that i look at it how you explained it to me. I still think she is wrong for not consulting with me though. I know she would not like it if i did that to her. I really did not yell at her like she was a bad puppy, i was not yeliing top of my voice. I express anger cause i felt she disrespected me and i know i should have not dished it out either, now that i read what you wrote.
Should i just leave her alone for the rest of today? I really do not want to, i was gonna give her some space and call her around noon or 1 or 2 today to see if she wants to talk cause if we do not make plans soon it will be to late then. 

What about this though???? "Please tell me if i am wrong about what i want to tell her today. I want to tell her that i am sorry but "family comes first not friends" not to mention "there our kids not just yours like you think" am i correct on this cause if not then i am crazy. I know i need to put my foot down but i do not want to fight, like i said i give up on that. 
Now so i am not a ahole anymore and i am not trying to be one today either but what would seem like a reasonable solution? should i tell her look i know you want to go to the roast so let us do something friday sat and come home sunday go to that and then monday we can do something with the kids? or should i say screw it its family weekend? I am a nice guy but like you guys had said i need to stop being walked on here. "


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

tony8404 said:


> "thank you honey :O)"


Here she is making her self vulnerable to you...this is progress on her part, even though you interpret this as her being selfish.

This is the EXACT type of things you need to handle with extreme care and respond in a loving, positive way so she KNOWS that she is safe if she is loving towards you.



tony8404 said:


> She then drops the bomb and says "Oh well i told my friend me and the girls were going to go to her pig roast"
> YES I BLEW UP, I said are you kidding me? last week we said we were going to do something and now this, WTF.


You knew about the pig roast already cuz you posted about it before....you are just sitting back and setting yourself up for disappointment so you have a reason to go off on her.

Why are you sabotaging your marriage like this? 
These constant outbursts will give you the opposite result you say you want.

I would have added a few bricks to the emotional wall I built if you reacted like this to me...just sayin'



tony8404 said:


> she is like well i did not think you wanted to go with, i said no i do not want to go with we are supposed to do something either as a family or just me and you.... She yells back saying fine but i am gonna tell her your taking us out of town and you better take us out of town. I said how the F cares what you tell her, all you have to say is were not gonna make it she needs no fing excuse from us.
> Then i tell her you know what then forget it...... then i went up to bed at like 7 and woke up at 10 when she was getting into bed.


YOU want to do something as a family or just you and her....YOU seem to be the only one that wants that. If you could go to the pig roast as a family and not cause a scene because something annoys you she would probably love that...sounds like you do not want to do anything social and she is afraid to take you along to these types of things....

she is even compromising and saying she will cancel the pig roast plans, which I thought was what you wanted...but that is not good enough? She has to cancel it a certain way and not say what she's comfortable saying?

She is pretty much coming out and saying "If I cancel these plans that I was looking forward to, at least plan something else equally as fun"... but instead, you say "FORGET IT!!!" because she didn't do everything exactly your way....:scratchhead:

I am not even sure what to say other than you do the OPPOSITE of what everyone advises and wonder why she is distant?


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

whoa wait. she mentioned the pig roast when i first posted that on here, there were no plans made to go to the roast, she did that yesterday around 2p.m. The night i found out about it, her friend was just telling her what she was doing for the memorial day. Her friend sent a email invite yesterday saying if you guys want to come to it you can. She then replied saying yes me and the girls will go but i dont think he is coming with. She never consulted with me if i wanted to or not... she never asked me... she automatically decided she was not going to be with me and thought the kids should not be either.
No it did not have to be my way at all. what i was saying was, me and her talked not this monday but last monday about memorial day. She said me and her should go somewhere together since we wont be able to do a week vacation this year, i said that is what we need some alone time together that sounds great. We agreed on this. but then all of a sudden she acts like we never spoke about anything. I know what you guys are saying but things do not have to be my way, i am not like that. 
So no it did not have to be my way at all, the only thing i want my way is to be respected by her consulting me as a family. 
She just pulled this a few weeks ago about fourth of july plans... My dads band is playing some big fest and he sent her an invite via facebook and her friend is also on my dads band email list about events. well they both got the invite her and her friend automatically talked and made plans to go. She never said nothing to me about the whole thing, i found out a week and a half later when i saw my dad and he told me about it. I said does not sound like a bad idea, I WILL TALK TO HER ABOUT GOING IF SHE WANTS TOO---- Notice i said this to him, she does not do this.... I come home and tell her about it and she says to me oh yeah i know about it me and my friend already made plans. I said what? when? she says oh about a week to two weeks ago. I wanted to have a party at our house, i have almost 600 dollars of fireworks left over from last year, not to mention i spent over 12 hours on yard work to make it presentable for people to come over.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

First off I love how you got jumped on as usual out The gate only to find out that the poor innocent wife isn't so innocent.

How much disrespect are u willing to take? She has already cheated on you and now shows no indication of wanting a relationship with you. Sounds like ur a meal ticket until the kids are gone. If that's ok with you keep doing what your doing. If she can't move on from the disease you still have and are fighting then move on. I suspect you'll be drinking again if you continue to persue her. You're a man getting no respect in his own house from his wife and kids. How much are you willing to deal with? How much of ur self respect are you willing to lose behind this woman that laid down with another man or 2? Go live your life, you only get one. While she's at ur dads concert. Hit a baseball stadium you've never been to with a friend. The worse she can do is cheat and she's already done that. Take her off that pedestal, she doesn't deserve it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tony8404 said:


> I want to tell her that *i am sorry but* "family comes first not friends" not to mention "there our kids not just yours like you think"


That is a parent scolding a child. Maybe that's part of your problems?

Honestly, you guys have so many problems I don't see you straightening them out without professional help.

You don't go from being a doormat to being the ruler of the pack. You find a middle ground where you give her a REASON to want to choose you.

What would that reason look like? IDK, depends on you guys. 

Did you ever do the Love Buster questionnaire? I'm sure I recommended it. Use it. Let her fill it out so you can see what YOU do that SHE doesn't like. Then STOP DOING IT!

You have to stop being what she doesn't pick.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

tony8404 said:


> I want to tell her that i am sorry but "family comes first not friends" not to mention "there our kids not just yours like you think" am i correct on this cause if not then i am crazy. I know i need to put my foot down but i do not want to fight, like i said i give up on that.


I think what may be starting a lot of your fighting is the way you communicate (on both sides, not just you)...Saying "family comes first not friends" is implying that you think _*SHE *_ cares more about friends than family. _*SHE *_ probably doesn't agree with that statement and will automatically respond defensively...if you say that it is an argument waiting to start. 

If family comes first, what have you done to plan the weekend away? Picked a place? Made reservations? It sounds to me as if she is making plans since there don't seem to be any plans in place and she wants to have something fun to do. She is including the kids...I would guess she would include you if she felt you would enjoy going.

"there our kids not just yours like you think" Again....telling her what she thinks (You think our kids are just yours)...is putting words in her mouth and her only choice is to get defensive. Another argument waiting to happen.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I feel left out when you make plans with the kids and not me. If I set up a family day for Saturday (or whatever day is free) to go to (come up with a specific idea that you will plan) would you be up for that?"


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

That is the thing i asked her what she would like to do, if there was somewhere she may want go, i thought to ask her first being nice. She had no clue she tells me. I said we have all week to think, mind you she is unemployed and sitting there, just sitting there, trust me she is, i have seen it when i have stayed home. She has not looked up anything to do this weekend cause she would have showed me by now. I did some looking and had suggestions but i was shot down on all of them.
Well, to me she picked her friend over me because she already knew about us planning the weekend over a week ago, so i think she did plan without me. Another thing you do not know about her friend is she used to be or maybe still is a drug head, the only thing is she lucked out and found a guy with money not sure if he is a drug dealer or not but who knows he maybe into this as well, I do not know nor do i care or am i about to find out. I dont want to be there and the place gets raided!
I am not trying to be ruler of the pact i like to see it 50 / 50 but i am not about to let her think she has full control that is why i am saying family comes first not friends and if she thinks different, apparently we do not see eye to eye. She has said many times before THAT THEY ARE HER KIDS, i do not think that is fair to say. I am not saying this stuff just to start a fight with her, i am tired of this crap and right now i am about to just walk out of everything 
I messed up last night, i thought she just used me to get her print out, I did not look at it the way you guys explained it earlier and i am really pissed off at myself because that was my fing chance and i blew it again!!!!!!! Doubt i will get another one any time soon, more likely next week or weeks from now.


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, I do not want to give up, yet I do not want to add more to the fire. So what should i do now? Should i just leave her alone? I want to call or text her because she took a step forward yesterday and I understand she may have taken two steps back now but i do not want her to think I am going backwards now. 
Maybe i should type a nice email to her. Any thoughts?


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, I went ahead and called my wife. I am glad I did now, we talked and I used alot of the stuff from here with her and it worked. I told her how i thought she was using me to print out her paper and that was why she was only being nice to me. I told her that i did not see she was taking a step to me or opening up to me. I told her that i was just trying to get myself ready to not bother her when i was home. I told her that this weekend is not all about me and what i want, i told her that if it will make her happy i would go with her to the roast and i would be the husband she wants to be able to show her friends off too :O) she was happy about that and said she will be nice to me. She kept trying to say she has heard this all before and that she doesnt believe me. I said you need to stop with that and chance me, i said i can tell you anything you want to but until i prove it, it means nothing. I said i was upset cause with the long weekend i thought it was my chance to show her i meant buisness. I said that with the 5 days off i could prove it to her becuase it would not be just a one day event but i think by showing her 5 days of the guy she fell in love with will do it for her. 
I said enough of the talking and fighting lets just get it done and catch up on things we missed. I had asked her if she could please try what she tried last night cause it seemed she wanted to meet with me at least part of the way and i did not want to push her two steps back when she tried to take a step. I basically asked for another last night.... I just hope i do not blow it now... Maybe i will take atrenquilizer lol...


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## tony8404 (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, that is it i give up, DIVORCE...
I have had it with her, KOBO you were right all this time i wasted trying did not get me anywhere but to square 1 again. I went all out last night with her, it was great. Things seemed like they should be finally until this morning.... I found out her true intentions of the dam roast. It turns out the girl who is hosting the roast never knew my wifes new friend, the friend that i hate the most, that is a total loser. Well, my wife made an all out effort to make sure her new friend felt a warm welcome and decided to make her new friend, the all mighty friend. She linked up this new friend with the pig roast friend and made sure she will be at the roast even though she does not know the girl. Talk about crashing a party....
I asked my wife this morning, who do i know will be at this roast... My wife took a very very long pause and said to me why are you not going now? I said, i never said i was not going nor was i trying to get out of it, i just wondered who i knew was gonna be there since i cannot drink i wanted to be able to talk to someone I at least knew. She says well, so and so will be there and i am not sure if THE NEW FRIEND will be there or not cause of another plan she had. I said WTF, she does not even know the host or anyone there, you just went and invited her to this roast? She says no, i introduced them on facebook. I said oh my god that is it, now i know why you went ahead over my head and made plans to go to the roast so you can see this beatch, you knew we were supposed to be together or with the kids but you say no to that so you can see this fing loser.... She says no that is not true, i said really, i bet if she does not go and you find this out before the day it happens you do not want to go, WATCH! Guess what my wife has not talked to me all day and i could care less but now she texted me saying that loser wont be able to make it and now, she is acting like she is so nice to me saying we do not really have to go if you would rather do something else.... That is it i have had it screw this DIVORCE..... LARS, had good information but KOBO hit the nail on the head, he has provided the best knowledge that should be pass down to all others especially newly weds... 
When i get home tonight I am packing and leaving in an instant, I do not care what the heck happens to her now, I will see my kids when there 18 and dont have to listen to her anymore. Thank you all for you help, feedback and most of all trying to help me and listening to me. I now have to go and start a new life


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow.


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