# Fighting the urge to distance yourself



## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

My wife and I are two months out from D-Day, and the plate is quite full with her affairs throughout our marriage. I call it 2.5 affairs as two were EA/PA, and one was EA. She's got an attention addiction and in these cases, it was a combination of her ability to wander on me based on our years of on and off relationship status (which I too, prior to engagement, was not perfectly faithful, however I was able to shut it down when we got engaged), and these guys filling her need for attention and to be desired - the rest is history.

She will not leave me and she has made that clear. And it's not just about her fear of being out in the world alone, she loves me and would never recover from losing me (hard to imagine that given her actions, but I'm seeing true remorse).

So at the least I'm not dealing with someone that was conflicted on who they wanted when the affair was exposed, as in the book "not just friends", she immediately came to terms with where her heart was (not her lust).

Without making a huge thread as I usually do, she wants this, I want to try this, but I still find myself wavering. But it's not wavering between R and D. . . it's more just between R and being invested in things vs. just wanting space and distance. 

We have some out of town weddings coming up and she really wants us to go together. There will certainly be a part of me that is forcing myself to suck it up and mentally check into the weekend fun.

I guess my simple questions is, can time together when you are still confused do any bad? I'm hoping it can only help, and I don't have the personality where I'll blow up or make a scene at someone else's special day. So I'm not really a liability, if that makes any sense.

Or with a positive spin, can time together only help when you are still unsure on where you want to be?


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## borninapril (Jun 6, 2011)

Sounds a lot like what I've been going/ am going through. I just keep reminding myself that it takes a constint effort to be "there". I also think it would help to try to find out where the "Attention Addiction" comes from or it will just continue. With my wife it seems like every 18 months she goes through the cycle where she needs someone other than myself to tell her she's attractive.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

borninapril said:


> Sounds a lot like what I've been going/ am going through. I just keep reminding myself that it takes a constint effort to be "there". I also think it would help to try to find out where the "Attention Addiction" comes from or it will just continue. With my wife it seems like every 18 months she goes through the cycle where she needs someone other than myself to tell her she's attractive.


Bingo! For mine, it's about every two years. They find her, she doesn't seek it out, but she certainly doesn't refuse it and historically has relished in it. So the simple solution. . . no male friends ever again. Not so simple though - seems reasonable, but what happened when we hit the two year mark? I anticipate she's going to at the least be bored with things, perhaps not seek out another man again. Yes I can dial up my attention that I give her and certainly desire her more - we're extremely attracted to each other.

Our other issue is that even in the event her therapist helps her determine this need for attention comes from neglect during her childhood (she had absent parents that were clueless as to what she was doing), what do you do after the determination? It's like "ok, you were neglected as a child and you need and love lots of attention". . . $20 co-pay please, see you next week.

I suppose it's limited to her speaking openly with me when she is feeling lonely and/or bored, or asking me to keep my level of attention at high most of the time (which I don't have a problem doing).


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## borninapril (Jun 6, 2011)

Well having gone through the "cycle" four times now I have come to realize that it really doesn't mater what I do, because it's not about me. As she has put it "I'm expected to tell here she's beautiful and sexy". My wife is an extremely beautiful woman and being overly nice and almost flirty comes with her job. The real problem with my wife is that she seems to attract guys that can tell she'll fall for their lines and she doesn't know where to "draw the line" between what is and isn't appropriate.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

What a great thread/question. I too find myself wavering. I know I *want* it to all work out, but am often just simply unable to go in that direction. I'm angry/triggered/pissed off/sad at any given moment, so why even be around her during those times?

My MC and much of what I've read has suggested the "fake it til lyou make it" can really bear fruit. It can also really give you the experience & insight, I think, to tell you if in fact you're just not going to make it because your heart really just is no longer there to be in it. It's kind of the direct polar opposite to the discussion on separation like sammy3's recent thread -- ie, trying to be _without _the WS vs. trying to be _with_ them. I feel like this "fake it till you make it" approach is working toward the positive, while separation would be working toward the negative.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

2xloser said:


> What a great thread/question. I too find myself wavering. I know I *want* it to all work out, but am often just simply unable to go in that direction. I'm angry/triggered/pissed off/sad at any given moment, so why even be around her during those times?
> 
> My MC and much of what I've read has suggested the "fake it til lyou make it" can really bear fruit. It can also really give you the experience & insight, I think, to tell you if in fact you're just not going to make it because your heart really just is no longer there to be in it. It's kind of the direct polar opposite to the discussion on separation like sammy3's recent thread -- ie, trying to be _without _the WS vs. trying to be _with_ them. I feel like this "fake it till you make it" approach is working toward the positive, while separation would be working toward the negative.


The three of us seem to really be in similar situations with this attention issue and lack of self control. You know, it's funny. . . not sure if you know the movie "When Harry Met Sally" well, but my wife and I would always debate Harry's line about men and women having some sort of attraction to each other, despite the relationship being platonic.

Can't wait till we watch that movie again. Either my wife is so unbelievably naive (which her therapist basically told her "WAKE UP THEY DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND") , or she knew exactly what she was doing and did not want to lead me any closer to her weaknesses.

I was seriously considering separation and my wife basically had a breakdown on the phone as we were talking . . . I think she understood how S is basically a step in the wrong direction of R. I've decided against S and I've checked back into the relationship, and more importantly the family as the kids have also been suffering my lack of investment in the relationship - and that is something they don't deserve, and something I should put more effort into as they will give me the love I'm not fully wanting from my WW right now.

Long story short, I think we're going to go to this wedding together, and the 'fake it till you make it', on my end at least (again, wifey is 100% into this), will be in effect. Hopefully not full effect, but I certainly force some smiles right now.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Maybe we can get our wives together for a 'focus group' discussion and just watch them talk their crap out through one of those one-way mirrors!  Let us know how the weddings go...I'd imagine myself triggering pretty bad once it got to the vows, restraining myself from running up to the poor guy, trying to slip him and envelope with a plane ticket outta there!


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Ahhhhhhhhhh, I can't do it guys. I'm not saying I'm out the door for good, but I can't jump back into this relationship at the moment. I think I need space. . . not "later, speak to you in six months space", but space.

My issue is complicated in that my wife was winding down a secret relationship when we were engaged (they were still intimate during our engagement), and has had other transgressions through our seven years. Book-ended marriage with affairs, YUCK.

Since she is really my only love. . .and relationship for that matter, as much as I love her, I'm struck by the curiosity of what else is out there. I don't want to throw away this relationship on 'what ifs', but, what if she's everything I don't want and I've been faking it all along? I have nothing to benchmark her against.

I have been fully open to her about these concerns and said I may need to date before I can get back into this, and I understand I risk losing her if she changes her mind. To be honest, in my head a 2 year break would likely be the best scenario, but it is extreme and we have children. 

She is ok with this (has used the term 'hall pass' a few times, which creates it's own set of problems [why is she ok with me going out and getting some . . .?], and she said "I guess if you fall in love with someone we have real problems". Maybe, I don't know. But I'm out of the shocked phase, and just realize I really need to work on myself before I'm ready to work on the relationship. My wife really needs to work on her addiction too.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> She is ok with this (has used the term 'hall pass' a few times, which creates it's own set of problems [*why is she ok with me going out and getting some . . .?*], and she said "I guess if you fall in love with someone we have real problems". Maybe, I don't know. But I'm out of the shocked phase, and just realize I really need to work on myself before I'm ready to work on the relationship. My wife really needs to work on her addiction too.


She probably believes that if she gives you the green light to have an affair that you'll be able to 'get over' her affairs. This is mostly a self-serving ploy to retain a faithful spouse. But mark my words, if you were to have an affair she would go nuts because as much as she wants you to believe that it would be ok with her, the truth is that it is not. 

Also, unlike her OM who really wanted her as a free booty call, most OW want more than that and usually fall in love with their married man. The only type of woman who would be satisfied to simply have a supplementary relationship (affair) with you would be another married woman just like your wife. But then that would make you no better that your wife's OM, wouldn't it?

So as you can see, an affair of your own would only end up creating more issues and why would you want that to begin with?


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

The "hall pass" thing seems to be pretty common. I agree it is probably to ease the guilt. A friend of mine told me after he found out about his wife's affair, his wife actually brought a girl home for him. They were both very direct in trying to get him to take this other girl to bed. He didn't go for it. They are divorced now.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I agree with mori here, the only likely relationship you will find yourself in will either be with another married woman, separated perhaps but still one foot in a prior/current relationship, or 'severely damaged goods' in that she's single and doesn't care that you are still married.

I kinda feel if you're done - you're done and that's OK. I don't know why you wouldn't just admit it and move forward to a new life, jumping into it with both feet. Sort of feels like you'd try to cake eat with her being Plan B after _2 years_... people, life, circumstances change enormously in 2 years. I'd think you could find better Plan B out on your own with a whole new you. Just my 2 cents


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> A friend of mine told me after he found out about his wife's affair, his wife actually brought a girl home for him. They were both very direct in trying to get him to take this other girl to bed. He didn't go for it. They are divorced now.


Sounds like a female cat that I had many years ago. I raised her since she was a kitten and she loved to be by my side. One day she brought me a dead mouse. I guess she figured that I was unable - or incompetent - to hunt for my own food so she brought me some.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

morituri said:


> I guess she figured that I was unable - or incompetent - to hunt for my own food so she brought me some.


I have 4 cats and my driveway can sometimes look like a slaughterhouse.

All my cats think I'm incompotent.
So I close the door and lock them outside.
So they open the bathroom window and make their way back in!


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Numb-badger said:


> So I close the door and lock them outside.
> So they open the bathroom window and make their way back in!


Sounds very much like my stbxw..


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## Ember (Jul 17, 2011)

This is almost exactly what I'm going through...and all that I can tell you is, don't fight it...I went through (and am still going through) protective emotional detachment (emphasis on protective)...it is the only way I've been able to deal with all the crap my WW has been putting me through! If it happens with you (I kept trying to make it happen, but it wouldn't...it happened on its own), you'll have a clearer head about what you need to do, and where your relationship is going!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If and when you do fully commit to an R---you need to have her sign a POST--NUP Agreement, with a DURESS clause.

Be very specific, about the terms, making it so that she gets very little in the way of a D. settlement----that probably won't stop her, if she really wants to cheat, but you never know


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

jnj express said:


> If and when you do fully commit to an R---you need to have her sign a POST--NUP Agreement, with a DURESS clause.
> 
> Be very specific, about the terms, making it so that she gets very little in the way of a D. settlement----that probably won't stop her, if she really wants to cheat, but you never know


Yes I already dropped $1500 with a lawyer for the POST NUP, but I've been to impulsive with everything and I really need to take things down a number of notches. So the PN will be in play and my WW has no problem signing it.

Really, this has nothing to do with her or our relationship at the moment. It all has to do with me. My therapist (and a few friends) pondered that the reason I found myself in this position in our relationship is that I was so unselfish I chose to look past suspicious stuff b/c I wanted to pretend it wasn't happening. Not healthy, I know, so before we can work on US, we need to work on ourselves. 

My WW has snapped out of the fog to such an extreme that she too is having a problem understanding what has taken her down this road for so many years. She's fighting depression, and she likely needs a script. She literally can not fathom life without me, and I'm careful to not punish her (as I was at the onset of this mess), cause I could easily say "life without me, perhaps you should have thought about that before getting down with other guys".

Back to wanting legitimate space, EVERYTHING is a trigger at home, the engagement pictures, wedding pictures, CAR, HOUSE, I mean sh!t has gone on everywhere I look between guy #1 at the beginning of our relationship and this recent loser. So I may be in an OK mood on the way home from work, but I find myself resenting things when I get home. It's tough, I'm being childish in some ways, but I think that even part time, some nights where I just come home to an empty, quiet place, it will help me figure out where I want to go.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> Also, unlike her OM who really wanted her as a free booty call, most OW want more than that and usually fall in love with their married man. The only type of woman who would be satisfied to simply have a supplementary relationship (affair) with you would be another married woman just like your wife. But then that would make you no better that your wife's OM, wouldn't it?


Here is the strange part. . . it's all about the attention for my WW. In fact, the OM actually are the ones that fall in LOVE WITH HER!. In both instances they were in love and I think they wanted to be with her. She loves to be loved. She did not fall in love in return however and it seems pretty clear as the day I blew this up she has not spoken to the guy since and I over heard her say to a friend "I don't care if [OM] dies tomorrow, I told him whatever we had going on is done". Coupled with the fact that she says she really didn't get anything out of it, meaning, the sex did nothing for her, I just don't know exactly what we have going on here. She seems to be slowly understanding what took her down this road, and it is a horrible, embarrassing, regretful journey for her.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

2xloser said:


> I agree with mori here, the only likely relationship you will find yourself in will either be with another married woman, separated perhaps but still one foot in a prior/current relationship, or 'severely damaged goods' in that she's single and doesn't care that you are still married.




Are you sure about that ? 

~sammy


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I think that you need to consider conveying to your wife that IF you chose to reconcile with her that *the marriage will be on an indefinite probationary period* dependent on whether or not you can emotionally heal from her affairs. If she accepts, then she will be acknowledging that you still can bolt out of the marriage and that it is in her best interests not to give you a reason for choosing to do so. 

No more rug sweeping, it is time for her to do the hard work of regaining your trust by doing everything you need from her to accomplish it. If she doesn't like it, then you can show her to the door.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

LSO,

You mentioned she snapped out of the fog. What has she done for you to determine that she is truly out of it, and not lying again?

I commend you on how you are handling this right now. Not many BS's write with the self-respect and strength that you're showing. Perhaps that is one factor that helped snap your wife from the infidelity fog, seeing a strong spouse that is capable of moving on in life. 

As for triggers, they certainly won't go away, but you could remove the engagement/wedding photos from wherever they are displayed. Box them up and put them away. A small step in the much larger process, but it could be helpful to not have to seem them constantly. I imagine your wife, if she is all in on R, would have no issue with it if you explain it to her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RWB said:


> How can your wife (just like mine) go from so deep in the affair (preparing to divorce me to marry her true love OM, at exposure do a complete 180 and suddenly want you more than life and want to reclaim a marriage that 15 minutes prior was so broken and meaningless?


Simple, actions always speak louder than words.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip - Sadly, it took me many years to finally say enough is enough and face the music that I wasn't creating things in my head. . . my wife truly was in an open relationship. What ended up transpiring was two people going through a metamorphosis, me having my balls finally descend, and her facing music she never expected to ever face - the current, the previous, and everything in between. I have a very high ability to cope and process really bad sh!t). Probably not healthy, but it is what it is. I handle the deaths of loved ones well, meaning, while I'm sad, I don't let it consume my life and understand you have to either "get busy living, or get busy dying". I choose the former, with or without my WW. As far as her coming to terms with things. . . well. . . her owns words are telling at this point. She has accepted this has nothing to do with me, she has never wanted to face her deep rooted issues, and she has treated me like absolute sh!t for years (with respect to being faithful, ironically, she takes care of me, but was able to lead this double life).

RWB - With my wife, my concern is that it is psychopathic. While my wife went into these situations with a man's perspective (no interest in leaving me, but plenty of interest in the EA/PAs, she didn't fall in love but the guys did with her and she ate that up), it's harder and harder to understand what on earth was going though her head. The first guy failed out of the academy he was in. . .dumb as bricks. . . not exactly a trade up. The other guy is an overweight chump that filed for personal BK. So she goes down this road when at home she has a guy, and let me quote her from today "you are an amazing man, very attractive and so caring", that does quite well financially, and can support our entire family with plenty left over.

I mean what the phuck is going on here? If I were to get into an affair, I suppose it would be with a seriously hot chick, perhaps wealthy, or at the least someone that wouldn't make me take a huge step down in my life. That's part of the problem though. . .in her head she was never going to get caught, so she never even considered what could happen.

Our lives are blown apart, but the tables have turned. I'm accepting what it on my plate, and it sucks. . .but I will survive either in or out of this relationship. If I choose to walk away, it is very clear to me she will never get over losing me. . . and that will be the hardest part for her - she made this bed 100%.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

LSO, whatever you are doing to get yourself through this right now, it sounds like it's working. You said that her remorse is apparent through her own words. Is she only speaking these words, or is she acting and behaving this way? As morituri said, actions and not words. I think that exposure and you staying strong lend credibility to her realizing how bad she was, so I think remorse here could absolutely be genuine. She may have gotten the cold bucket of water to wake her up and realize you're strong enough to walk away if that's what would be best for you.Either way, I have no doubt you'll be vigilant in the future
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

LSO,

Confusing and full of Contradiction... That was the state of mind my wife displayed. She too said she never really planned on leaving me. Her affairs were just fantasy for her, just a game of excitement. At first it was just flirtatious, no real harm to her, it wasn't physical. When she started having sex it became overwhelming for her. She says she never quit loving me (contradiction again), but she also loved the attention that she was getting even more. She even said she knew it was wrong, but remember... "I'll never get caught". She even knew as Morituri says that Sex was the currency of the affair.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

RWB said:


> LSO,
> 
> Confusing and full of Contradiction... That was the state of mind my wife displayed. She too said she never really planned on leaving me. Her affairs were just fantasy for her, just a game of excitement. At first it was just flirtatious, no real harm to her, it wasn't physical. When she started having sex it became overwhelming for her. She says she never quit loving me (contradiction again), but she also loved the attention that she was getting even more. She even said she knew it was wrong, but remember... "I'll never get caught". She even knew as Morituri says that Sex was the currency of the affair.


Wow, then we really are married to twins separated at birth. I mean, that is what this was, a game. What can I get away with? No concept of what you are gambling with. The thought of what was at stake never even crossed the mind (which is scary in its own sense).

I think an enormous hurdle for all of us is getting to the point mentally where you truly can walk away and feel like it is the 'right' thing to do. My wife's subconscious must have never thought I'd have the strength to do that, and that was the game changer from when she continued to 'control' our relationship to when she began saying 'I can not go on without you' [in one discussion with her collapsed on the floor of where she works]. 

Again, one can never blame themselves for a wandering spouse, but I wish I had this strength back when we were engaged because I would have walked away. Now, there is so much invested between our kids and empire, it makes the decisions much much harder. I do love her, but there is so much damage. For me, just some time to clear my head will do me much good. . . I think.

I don't disagree with 2x where separation is likely a test to see if you do want to D, vs. "faking it till you make it" as a barometer to see if you can hang around till things truly do feel better and R continues.

I hope the picture gets clearer for me as the months go by. The shock is certainly gone, but the angst continues as I think of all the lies and the violation of transgressions going on in my own damn house (of which I own solely).


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You need to establish what appropriate boundaries are for her and other men. Mine were: no contact with any other man outside of normal work related business. No contact outside of within a social setting such a gathering amongst other people and that included any conversations texting calls or private meetings. No girls night out including with gathering of work people in bars or other unless it was strictly women and no one chasing or accepting offers from men to talk or dance. No discussing her personal or marital concerns details whatever with any man. Any man asking these questions were to rejected staunchly. She was to notify me if there were any passes or conversation starters of this type and I mean immediately by cell phone with the persons name and where she was and then to leave even if it mean getting a cab because she rode there with no one else. On the OM side any contact of any sort was to be reported immediately and if she didn't we were done. She was to tell me if she had any desire to contact him. If she didn't file before any contact I would and in any case contact of any sort meant it was over. You need to lay down these rules and make sure she knows there are no second chances. The contact she has already is grounds for you filing. Lay it down HARD and stick to it. She doesn't believe you will stick to it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> You need to establish what appropriate boundaries are for her and other men. Mine were: no contact with any other man outside of normal work related business. No contact outside of within a social setting such a gathering amongst other people and that included any conversations texting calls or private meetings. No girls night out including with gathering of work people in bars or other unless it was strictly women and no one chasing or accepting offers from men to talk or dance. No discussing her personal or marital concerns details whatever with any man. Any man asking these questions were to rejected staunchly. She was to notify me if there were any passes or conversation starters of this type and I mean immediately by cell phone with the persons name and where she was and then to leave even if it mean getting a cab because she rode there with no one else. On the OM side any contact of any sort was to be reported immediately and if she didn't we were done. She was to tell me if she had any desire to contact him. If she didn't file before any contact I would and in any case contact of any sort meant it was over. You need to lay down these rules and make sure she knows there are no second chances. The contact she has already is grounds for you filing. Lay it down HARD and stick to it. She doesn't believe you will stick to it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

A spouse doesn't have to be mentally broken to have an affair. The late Dr Shirley Glass in her book titled 'Not Just Friends' proved that even healthy, happily married spouses can become involved in an affair if they start crossing the marital boundaries 8yearscheating has stated. If you truly want to reconciliation, then you must insist on those boundaries being religiously observed by her (and by you as well).


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Here's something that might be of interest.



> *Compartmentalizing the Affair by the Wayward Spouse*
> 
> The ability to compartmentalize is a double-edged sword...
> On the one hand, it's a GOOD thing, a self-defense mechanism that our highly advanced human brains have invented to deal with the reality of our complicated lives without going stark raving mad. A great example of good compartmentalizing is how people can react calmly in an emergency - they can put aside the horror and overwhelming fright and pain for long enough to do something about it. Cops, EMT's, and combat soldiers are great examples of people who can compartmentalize a horrible situation that would send the rest of us screaming for the hills.
> ...


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

RWB said:


> LSO,
> 
> I'm 2 years out from D DAY.
> 
> ...




I ask theses same questions over and over... My past two years were made of lies, lies, lies, and all I hear now is, "You don't know what it was like for me !!!!"

~sammy


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