# Same story told a thousand different times....



## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

I'm 35, female, married with two boys 9 years apart one being 5 months old. Hubby is 45, my best friend, amazing dad and husband. He's the type of man that will take the kids to let me sleep in and make me toast and coffee on a Sunday. 

Like most on here our relationship outside of the bedroom is perfect! But inside the bedroom has sunken to a new depth in hell I'm riddled with sadness and devastation. He has simply out grown sex. Sex does not equal love in his mind and has very little need for sex that he can be content with it 6 times a year. 

I'm a normal to mid high drive but lately I'd even say my drive is normal to low range for a new again mom. However intimacy with my husband is extremely important to me and I'm having an extremely hard time dealing with his zero interest in that matter.

There is no compromise, sex happens or it doesn't simply based on his mood. He does not even meet me 25% of the way. Unless its only a bj im after then he will gladly allow but he will not get me off to help satisfy me in any way. I used to hint, flirt, play, ask, beg to no avail. I stopped for months because the rejection was just too much to bear. 

We became a sexless couple.

Then one day I broke down and told him I can't live this way. That being married to him makes me feel vile, less of a woman, pathetic and desperate. Not to mention the pain in my heart from desiring his touch or attention and how lonely it is for me. I said things have to change and he promised they would. 

I went away for a month to visit his family and told him to see what life would be like without me that maybe he would be happier. Because clearly I'm not the right woman for him because he's not sexually stimulated by me. He said he's like that with all women, he's just not into sex and its getting worse with age. But he promised to make changes to meet me in the middle. I even suggested a date night every two weeks where we could be intimate. He said he will try harder.

Came back and of course the first night we ended up having awkward sex that was really just quick and lacking anything intimate. I didn't even want to because I wanted us both to be groomed but it just happened so fast I gave in and figured the weekend we could have a do over. Because he was proving to me things will be better. The next morning I was kinda on cloud nine and proceeded to arouse him and ended up giving him a BJ, ill be honest I missed doing that since we stopped being intimate I couldn't help myself. Again I felt like not making sex an issue and just going with the flow.

Fast forward to the weekend, I groom and hint that he should too, he doesn't. I get into bed with him I'm wearing a sexy little dress and ankle socks (that used to be his thing) and nothing happens. I don't get upset I don't want to lose momentum between us by fighting so I say to myself "it will happen in the morning" he prefers morning sex anyway. Morning comes he's rubbing my bum so i think ok this might be the time. I start to rub his thighs and such and he gets hard (he never ever has morning wood) I play with him a bit and figured that's enough. He gets out of bed and gets dressed????

Again I don't get upset and tell myself that night it will happen but of course it didnt. I cried myself to sleep he was angry at me. Now I sit here wondering wtf am I going to do. He's come in and rubbed me and kissed me trying to make amends but at this point if I even bother with his gestures it just means going back to happy sexless roommates.

I'm sorry I just want to vent and find comfort in ppl who share similar situations. I know you've all heard this story before. I'm so alone I can't share this with friends or family. Everyone thinks we are perfect!


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Has he had his T levels checked ?

It could be that simple

55


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> Has he had his T levels checked ?
> 
> It could be that simple
> 
> 55


Yes he has it was fine, in the beginning when we exp mismatched drives he tried supplementing but that lasted a few months he became too lazy to take them. He's not motivated by sex in any way why should he have to work at things to make him more sexual when he doesn't want or need to be sexual? He's willing to lose his wife who is so devoted to him, I work earn more $ while he is working his way through trade school, I do all the house work, finances, cooking, yard work take care of two kids and spoil him rotten. He's just not sexual.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Sorry, cruxes, you have my sympathy and empathy. I have been married 18 years. The layers of rejection and sadness and loneliness are pretty deep.

You might tell yourself like I do - my life is pretty good. I have a lot to be thankful for. Other people have it worse. Nobody gets everything they want in life.

And yet there is just no substitute for that intimacy you crave. 

A lyric from an Elton John song I find so true - it's like trying to find gold in a silver mine. It's like trying to pour whiskey from a bottle of wine. 

People can only share what they have to give and some people just have a very low level of sexual energy or desire for intimacy.


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> Sorry, cruxes, you have my sympathy and empathy. I have been married 18 years. The layers of rejection and sadness and loneliness are pretty deep.
> 
> You might tell yourself like I do - my life is pretty good. I have a lot to be thankful for. Other people have it worse. Nobody gets everything they want in life.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that insight Miss Scarlet I tell myself that all the time. He just doesn't have it in him. I just wish he was honest with me about his sexual anorexia! He hid it from me till we were knee deep in marriage. Getting away with claiming to be mismatched. Now Im the one that has to walk away destroy the family for my own selfish needs. How can I even do that? My kids won't understand. Well played on his part! Or I live sexless till they grow up and understand? There is no happy ending here!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Cruxes
If you read other threads here, you will find that this sort of situation is depressingly common. Its being common doesn't make it any less miserable. It seems both men and women find themselves in this situation. You have my sympathy. 

It is so difficult for the high desire partner to get the low-desire partner to understand just how destructive this is to one's self worth. How it poisons the entire relationship.

I was in this situation for many years (like 25!). Nothing I could do would help. I took her romantic places - can you imagine a week spent in an ancient palace overlooking the grand canal in Venice - and no intimacy? As with you, everyone thought we were the perfect couple. 

I figured it was me. That I was unattractive, etc. Eventually a friend pointed out to me that wasn't at all true - made me realize that many women seemed to enjoy spending time with me - that it was even a joke among my friends (one that I had never understood). 

Finally I talked with my wife one more time - but this time expected the talk to end with my asking for a divorce. Instead she said that she wanted a good sex life - and that somehow (god knows why) she was feeling unwanted. 

Our sex life turned around, and as a result our marriage turned around. We are not happy. Really. 


But - I don't know what changed and don't know what to suggest to you. For many other posters here things have never improved. 

In my opinion, its not worth waiting. Make it clear to him that you can't live like this - because you can't. If he can't change, then leave. Otherwise your resentment will just grow and you will spend the rest of your life miserable. He will sense your unhappiness, but never really understand why.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If he doesn't have morning erections, then either his T levels are NOT fine, or there's another physical problem. Of course, it could be that he's naturally LD even if his hormones are optimal, in which case nothing will work except him making an effort to develop having sex as a habit. That takes time and effort to engrain, but may work if he truly tries.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for sharing your story Cruxes! Some of us can certainly relate from both sides of the gender isle, and some have been on both sides of the libido issue. I know I've learned so much here.

You go looking for a cause you can correct and in many cases it's possible. Their drive was just lowered due to hormones, loss of respect, or some other loss of attraction that can be corrected. Fixing your hormone levels, changing birth control, getting in shape, being more alpha, etc, all-around being a better husband/wife in whatever area you were lacking in before makes a real change.

Some partners just have a naturally low desire for sex. It's just the way they are built. You'll have to either find a way to compromise or move on.

I've come to understand my wife is of the naturally low desire kind. After going through the checklists of potential problems/solutions it did make me feel better to know she does truly love me and that she is genuinely attracted to me, but at the same time it makes me terribly sad now to know that we'll just never connect "that way". Sex doesn't mean the same thing to her, never has, and likely never will.

Find a compromise or split. There are a few of us standing on that precipice now. You're definitely not alone.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Cruxes said:


> Yes he has it was fine, in the beginning when we exp mismatched drives he tried supplementing but that lasted a few months he became too lazy to take them. He's not motivated .....


Those are classic symptoms of low testosterone. Please have him tested again and explain to him that you want him to be as healthy as possible for both of you.

Lack of drive and motivation are related to hormones in a male, and the worst part about it is the fact that we are oblivious to it. Like the boiled frog example, we dont see it happening because we are in it.

I am 33, been fighting with Medi-cal for close to two months to get them to approve testosterone cypionate injections for me. My last labs came back with 243 total testosterone, the scale starts at 200 and ends in 1197. I have the test of a 80 year old man and I hate the fact that my body betrayed me like this. I didnt even notice the spark fade. My poor wife. It takes so much effort on my part to try and engage her sexually because of not having the hormones that I need. Not to mention anything else that requires motivation.

This is a major health issue for men, and I think is at the root of your husbands issue. (that or possibly a sexual identity crisis, is he attracted to men at all?)

edit: @ 4x4 

Have you two explored the possibility that her sexual response cycle stages are out of order? (there are 4 phases/stages: excitement, plateau, orgasm, resolution) There is research being done these days on people who cant enter the excitement phase properly because they need stimulation before hand.


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

Paladin said:


> Those are classic symptoms of low testosterone. Please have him tested again and explain to him that you want him to be as healthy as possible for both of you.
> 
> Lack of drive and motivation are related to hormones in a male, and the worst part about it is the fact that we are oblivious to it. Like the boiled frog example, we dont see it happening because we are in it.
> 
> ...


I truly believe he is asexual or a sexual anorexic after many fights with him about our sex life he finally admitted that he's always been this way sex is not important to him, sex does not equal love he does not feel love with sex, his sexual desire always dissipates after the initial honeymoon stage, he does require it and as he ages the requirement is less and less. He doesn't even masterbate no porn. I feel betrayed by him because he knew he was like this and hid this from me. If he told me I at least would have had the choice to accept this or not. Instead he hid it in hopes that he could make himself better or I wouldn't mind. 

He cuddles and massages me and wants constant touch and kisses. He never leaves me alone, always touches me or has me near him just zero interest in taking things further. It's so messed up because him touching me turns me on and hurts me because I want that touch to me more but it never does.


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

4x4 said:


> Thanks for sharing your story Cruxes! Some of us can certainly relate from both sides of the gender isle, and some have been on both sides of the libido issue. I know I've learned so much here.
> 
> You go looking for a cause you can correct and in many cases it's possible. Their drive was just lowered due to hormones, loss of respect, or some other loss of attraction that can be corrected. Fixing your hormone levels, changing birth control, getting in shape, being more alpha, etc, all-around being a better husband/wife in whatever area you were lacking in before makes a real change.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, I'm sorry you find yourself in the same situation with your wife. That pain of knowing it will never be "that way" really stings! But so many people live without "that" maybe I'm being selfish and greedy? I don't know splitting will destroy 3 or 4 lives. My kids would never understand. Is it fair to take their daddy away. I don't know how much sacrifice is ok in marriage?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

"He cuddles and massages me and wants constant touch and kisses. He never leaves me alone, always touches me or has me near him just zero interest in taking things further. It's so messed up because him touching me turns me on and hurts me because I want that touch to me more but it never does"

At least you are getting this affection. A lot of posts here there is nothing going on reguarding intimacy. My husband has ED and a low t count but I get a lot of attention, hugs and kisses from him. I have accepted this and you will probably have to accept the situation and be happy with the affection and other great aspects of your marriage or divorce. You can't force someone to have sex with you.


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Try not to be angry at him. He may have known something about his own libido, but he can only see it through his own eyes. He doesn't have your perspective as a high drive partner. I don't think you were "duped" any more than I was by my wife. I just thought my wife was inexperienced, she was, but neither of us knew about libidos or that mine was high or hers was low or what it would mean down the road. We made such a good pair otherwise which I'm sure masked some of the bedroom concerns.

I've learned/heard those same descriptions from her about her view of sex. It's not important, it's never on her mind, never masturbated, no connection between love and sex, etc. 

No connection between love and sex really blows me away. I've had sex without love, sure, but only with people I didn't care about spending the rest of my life with.

Her sex tank just empties fast and takes weeks/months to refill once emptied. If we have sex more than a couple times in a week she'll just come out and tell me she needs a break to recharge.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Cruxes said:


> I truly believe he is asexual or a sexual anorexic after many fights with him about our sex life he finally admitted that he's always been this way sex is not important to him, sex does not equal love he does not feel love with sex, his sexual desire always dissipates after the initial honeymoon stage, he does require it and as he ages the requirement is less and less. He doesn't even masterbate no porn. I feel betrayed by him because he knew he was like this and hid this from me. If he told me I at least would have had the choice to accept this or not. Instead he hid it in hopes that he could make himself better or I wouldn't mind.
> 
> He cuddles and massages me and wants constant touch and kisses. He never leaves me alone, always touches me or has me near him just zero interest in taking things further. It's so messed up because him touching me turns me on and hurts me because I want that touch to me more but it never does.


What is the number for his total testosterone level when his blood is drawn before 10 am after a 12 hour fast?

I mentioned my lab results earlier in this post for a reason. I'm 33 and I have not always been _this_ low, your husband saying he has always been this way may be the truth, and may have *always* been an issue with hormones. At this level I dont masturbate, watch porn, or have any desire to have sex with my wife. 

I can sit on the couch and be close with her, I can pet her and rub her breasts and do other familiar stuff with her, but there is never the signal in my head to take her and have sex with her. I mean literally never. I currently do so because I love my wife and still have fun with her when we have sex, but the drive to do so, that impulse to have sex with her, is absent or muffled to a great degree. I still clearly remember what that impulse feels like, because it used to be there, but maybe your husband always had testosterone issues, and never learned what that impulse is like. 

Its worth exploring, and it is a relatively simple fix. If goldcoast wasnt such a pain in my arse for prescription coverage, I would already be taking 0.25ml subcutaneous injections of testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml every other day (or 0.5ml twice per week to cut down on poking myself) at home, it takes 45 seconds and doesnt even hurt.


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

4x4 said:


> Try not to be angry at him. He may have known something about his own libido, but he can only see it through his own eyes. He doesn't have your perspective as a high drive partner. I don't think you were "duped" any more than I was by my wife. I just thought my wife was inexperienced, she was, but neither of us knew about libidos or that mine was high or hers was low or what it would mean down the road. We made such a good pair otherwise which I'm sure masked some of the bedroom concerns.
> 
> I've learned/heard those same descriptions from her about her view of sex. It's not important, it's never on her mind, never masturbated, no connection between love and sex, etc.
> 
> ...


Such truth in that post! I just wish he'd even be open enough to tell me that. He completely ignores the subject and me sexually until I blow my top about it. How do you cope in your marriage 4x4? How do you not get angry or bitter?


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## Cruxes (Aug 31, 2014)

Paladin said:


> What is the number for his total testosterone level when his blood is drawn before 10 am after a 12 hour fast?
> 
> I mentioned my lab results earlier in this post for a reason. I'm 33 and I have not always been _this_ low, your husband saying he has always been this way may be the truth, and may have *always* been an issue with hormones. At this level I dont masturbate, watch porn, or have any desire to have sex with my wife.
> 
> ...


Maybe we should explore it further? I know they said nothing wrong with his levels but I don't know numbers. Maybe he needs another doctor? We are in Canada it's hard to get a doctor for these things. It sounds like him he will rub my whole body naked and then roll over and go to sleep. I've never been able to have any kind of rub from an ex without it turning into sex within a minute or so. So with him it's been a real mind twister. At least in the beginning we'd have sex but over the years it's just turned into lots of rubs and cuddles or just holding hands or nothing. After months of no sexual intimacy I find it hard to be touched by him. It feels like salt in the wounds.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

was he abused as a boy?


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Cruxes said:


> Such truth in that post! I just wish he'd even be open enough to tell me that. He completely ignores the subject and me sexually until I blow my top about it. How do you cope in your marriage 4x4? How do you not get angry or bitter?


Hahahahaha, not get bitter and angry??? Oh hell yes I've been bitter and angry. That's natural! Vent on TAM, it helps! 

Like this!
:rant:


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

Also, I have to admit your thread title TOTALLY jumped out at me.... I was going to post my story here awhile back but didn't because it seemed like a story already told so many times. :rofl: I'm glad you did though!!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Cruxes said:


> I truly believe he is asexual or a sexual anorexic after many fights with him about our sex life he finally admitted that he's always been this way sex is not important to him, sex does not equal love he does not feel love with sex, his sexual desire always dissipates after the initial honeymoon stage, he does require it and as he ages the requirement is less and less. He doesn't even masterbate no porn. I feel betrayed by him because he knew he was like this and hid this from me. If he told me I at least would have had the choice to accept this or not. Instead he hid it in hopes that he could make himself better or I wouldn't mind.


My wife is the same way, including the admittance of how she has "always been like this". It's hard NOT to feel you were duped somehow. She has said that she's always known she was different from her friends and others, yet never really thought about it, I guess. Until it became an issue with us. Gee, thanks.

It IS easy to be angry, but I can also see it from her POV (as 4x4 said, they are looking at it from a vastly different angle.

But all the same, I have a hard time believing that people like my wife and your husband would bring this up with a new partner should they ever find themselves in that position.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

"Hubby is 45, my best friend, amazing dad and husband."





Cruxes said:


> I work earn more $ while he is working his way through trade school, I do all the house work, finances, cooking, yard work take care of two kids and spoil him rotten. He's just not sexual.


the above two statements from you seem mutually incompatible.

He does not sound like this "amazing" find. Take off the rose colored glasses and evaluate your relationship from a truthful standpoint. *Tell him to start lifting his end of the log or get out.*


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Cruxes said:


> ....... He's willing to lose his wife who is *so devoted to him, I work earn more $ while he is working his way through trade school, I do all the house work, finances, cooking, yard work take care of two kids and spoil him rotten*. He's just not sexual.


You need to STOP doing all these things for him!!!
Why on earth do you continue to meet the needs of a man who is unwilling to meet yours?
Time to have the His-Needs, Her-Needs discussion.
Explain to him it really doesn't matter that he has an abnormally low libido, your own libido is perfectly fine, and since sex is an important need for you, he needs to agree to a "normal" frequency of sex (irrespective of his libido).


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Cruxes said:


> Maybe we should explore it further? I know they said nothing wrong with his levels but I don't know numbers. Maybe he needs another doctor? We are in Canada it's hard to get a doctor for these things.....


It is absolutely worth exploring further. This is a major issue for you, and the longer it goes unchecked, the more likely it becomes for resentment to build. Resentment poisons the soul and drowns the heart if it is allowed to take root.

Just make an appointment for a physical and a full blood panel (fasting, no food for 12 hours) and make sure they draw his blood before 10am, or as early in the day as possible. When making the appointment, say you are concerned about hormone levels and ask that they include Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and Estradiol (female hormone test, sometimes called E2). Post the results here when you get them.

If your regular doctor wont work with you beyond the blood work results, do a search for "Sports Medicine Clinics" in your area. Those kind of places specialize in hormone treatments for men and have doctors that know what they are talking about when it comes to this topic.

If you still get no where, but need help, send me a PM, there are less than optimal ways to get testosterone, but should only be utilized as a last resort. 

For those that talk about being "duped" or mislead in some way, please consider the fact that people with abnormal hormone levels most likely _*do not know*_ they are abnormal. The changes are so gradual, they go unnoticed, and a person is left thinking they have "always" been like that.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

tommyr said:


> You need to STOP doing all these things for him!!!
> Why on earth do you continue to meet the needs of a man who is *unwilling* to meet yours?


Terrible advice, as there is a big difference between unwilling and unable. Until she knows without a shadow of a doubt which it is, there is no reason to enter into "i do this for you so you do this for me" nonsense.


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## Joe75 (Oct 12, 2013)

Hi Cruxes

Reference to T level check – “”Yes he has it was fine.”

“We are in Canada it’s hard to get a doctor for these things.”

I live in Canada too. Hopefully my experience might be of some use to you.

I presently do not have a family doctor and; therefore, I go to a medical clinic as required. In the past year, I suspected that my testosterone level was low and asked for it to be tested. When the results came back, I was told by a clinic GP that I was “fine”. Well I knew I wasn’t “fine” and started to do a lot of internet research. In addition, I was able to directly obtain my actual results from the lab (I use LifeLabs).

One thing I learned was that LifeLabs uses only one range scale for comparison testing (8.4 to 28.8 nmol/L). I was above the “8.4” but not by much; however, my results were within scale range and; therefore, I was “fine”. The problem with the one broad range scale approach is that it didn’t sufficiently account for changing levels of testosterone as a man ages. One frustration I had was trying finding a standard table for testosterone levels in men. Surprising, the GPs I saw were not helpful in this regard. Finally, I found a chart as follow (unfortunately, I cannot remember what site I pulled this from; but, so far, I have been not been challenged by doctors when I make reference to it): 

7 months to 9 years: Less than 30 ng/dL (less than 1.04 nmol/L) 

10–13 years: 1–619 ng/dL (0.04–21.48 nmol/L)

14–15 years: 100–540 ng/dL (3.47–18.74 nmol/L)

16–19 years: 200–970 ng/dL (6.94–33.66 nmol/L)

20–39 years: 270–1,080 ng/dL (9.00–37.48 nmol/L)

40–59 years: 350–890 ng/dL (12.15–30.88 nmol/ L)

60 years and older: 350–720 ng/dL (12.15–24.98 nmol/L)

According to the above chart, my testosterone level is less that the low end for my age group.

So armed with what I learned about testosterone, and my chart, I went back to the clinic for retesting. I was somewhat aggressive, and perhaps a bit challenging, in my discussion with the attending GP. In additional to ordering another testing, she referred me to the clinic’s Endocrinologist (I think in part to shut me up (lol)). Seeing an Endocrinologist was a most positive turning point. What a breath of fresh air it is to be attended by someone who actually listens and more important is highly skilled and knowledgeable. It looks like I will be starting treatment in the near future. 

If your husband’s testosterone level is below and even low for his age group, see an Endocrinologist. If your family doctor resists, go the medical clinic route. Do not be afraid to push hard to see a specialist.

Regards

Joe75


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