# Is my gf unstable? How can I help her/us?



## deathstar (Jan 17, 2013)

Hello,

This would be my first post and I hope it's in the right place.

First all, I love my gf to bits, I care for her and in general, I would see us married one day. But, I'm not writing this without a reason. We're for over a year together by now. We're living together for almost 5 months, which is a bit fast but it also has to do with a few other things. We're both in our twenties and I go to uni and she works full time.

It actually kind of stings me that I've to post this, in this section, as if my gf would be bat**** crazy but here goes. Reason is that I want to know what is going on with her and if possible get it 'fixed'. I've tried things to 'fix' her my self here and there but came to the conclusion I'm just being Mr. Nice Guy and no matter how much I give in, nothing helps as it's never enough and also, if she doesn't get it, I can't help her at all. She's aware of being jealous now and then, and even though it's a form of having trust issues, I could live with that. But not combined with the rest. Now it starts to get me that if we would continue like this, I might become quite unhappy in the long run, but worse, I feel like she won't be happy. She says she is happy with me, that she never has been so happy, but I don't believe it. And I'm really only happy if she's happy. I don't know how to explain, probably a guy thing (?). Well, on to the huge list of issues. If you want to know more examples or more information, by all means, do ask.

Things that I spotted 3 months into our relationship were insecurity and jealousy. Also there were trust issues, but I would have called them insecurity as well back then. This is due to a low self-esteem. She sincerely thinks she doesn't look good, thinks she isn't sweet for me at all, thinks I deserve better (although she stopped saying that a long time ago) etc. Also she fears I might leave her for anyone else and of course, every women being a serious treat to our relationship. I kow that she got cheated on at least one time, maybe more. Also I know she was always aware of 'fake relationships' just to get her in bed, which she never fell for so she actually never was susprised that it ended after 2 months when nothing happened.

I've tried to help her by reassuring her. I told her in many ways none of these fears are true. But I also showed her in many ways that I really love her. I cook for her, I do a lot in housechores, I often go with her shopping for hours (and if we do so I always buy her something), I buy flowers every now and then, I show a lot of affection (not being clingy though) and she often tells me she's the best she ever had (or the worse version, that I deserve better). But sadly, it never helped and it's becoming annoying. In the honeymoon stage no body minds to reassure your partner, not at all. But now... after such a time toghether...

She seems immature:
Does not communicate with me when something is wrong (whether something is wrong or she thinks something is wrong).
She rather mumbles her frustration. When asked what she said, she says ‘nothing’
Mocks passive-aggressively which I ignore, varying from 15 minutes up to 2 or 3 hours
If it’s a long ‘mock’ ultimately she hugs me and sobs, still doesn’t tell me why
Always issues with other girls in general. Therefor she doesn’t have real girlfriends, not because they don’t click, she can get along well face-to-face. But she always has a negative opinion about them anyway:
Some conspiracy theory they are surely talking about her behind her back
If not that, always something else, not to be trusted, weird etc.
When she can do something about a complaint of hers, she just doesn’t do it. She’d rather complain further:	
Headache, I offer her to some water, painkiller and to lay down. She doesn’t want to
Thinks she’s fat. Tell her she’s not, but otherwise to stop eating chips and sport, she doesn’t

She manipulates me:
She sets ultimatums like ‘when I get my ring I will trust you 100%’ or ‘if I get a ring I know you are 100% commited’. Seriously, if you can even doubt my intentions for wanting a LTR, then I’m at a loss as I do about everything to show it. I’ve already told her that she should trust me 100% before I even get her a ring and not to use a ring to fix her own doubts. She went quite silent on that, I doubt she even understood what I’ve told her. Other short examples:
If you forget the trash, no sex tonight (even though with a smile, I wonder if she would do it)
If you leave me, I’ll kill you and myself (welp?)
If you don’t do this, you don’t love me
When giving me the silent treatment and she notices I’m actually getting angry by this childish behavior, or angry in general with anythign else, she starts comforting me not to be pissed off in an instant. Yes, in an instant she is all lovey dovey, yet refuses to tell me what the issue was to begin with.

Insecure and jealous:
She seems to have about no self-esteem. She often things that I would leave her for someone else. She gets incredibly jealous, varying from female ex-coworkers into their 40’s with children greeting me in the mall to girls from school contacting me to ask something about our project. She even seems to be jealous if I’m playing a quick game on my telephone or even doing something for school, for ‘not wanting to spend time with her’, even though I gave up lots of hobby's just to be with her, I sit EVERY evening together with her. I almost never go out, I plan my work outs at times she's at work and game casually when she's not at home.

Moods
I’m not going to be the typical man who says ‘yeah yeah, got your period’. No, in fact over a month’s time I hardly notice any difference, rather than before her period I’ve an excuse for myself why she’s acting like it. But god, she’s moody. One moment she can be lovey dovey, but this can switch in a wink of an eye when;
I make an obvious joke that I’m indeed writing with a girl (will come back later at that)
A girl from school contacts me for a project, or anything else that fuels insecurity
If I play for a lousy minute a game when she goes to the toilet

Hypocrite
Most of the things she doesn’t like me doing, she does herself.
Unconsciously, I cut off contact with (the only) two female friends to show her I’m serious about her. Once every few months it happens we’ve a little contact and she becomes jealous. However, she can have contact and speak with anybody. When I tell her it’s kind of hypocrite she comes up with ‘Yes, but I love you’, ‘he already has someone’ or ‘he is my neighbor’… So what, I don't?
If I copy her behavior in the smallest way, she becomes irritated by it.

Oh so much trust issues
Biggest issue of all are the trust issues. Thinking I could leave her any second, thinking any women is a potential danger. Not to speak about the illusions that I’m in fact doing something wrong while there is simply no evidence at all. She’d rather believe I’m good at hiding than that there might be in fact nothing to be worried about. Every bit of reassurance is worth jack-****:
As she’s always so suspicious she always asks who I’m writing with etc. I hardly write anyway, but whatever. Thing is, once she had some complaints that something hurt her. So she laid down and I thought, lets search on the internet a fast way to fix it. She asks ‘who are you writing with?’… I know why she asks so I jokingly react with two obvious girl names. She looks at me if as if I raped her and it’s only that I quickly added it was a joke and what I was actually doing. She didn’t see the humor in it and we had another not so pleasant night. Why did I make the joke? Because I somewhat find it ridicilous that she even doubts my actions.

Once a girl added me on FB. I knew her; I had a date once with her. I’ve nothing to hide, I told my gf. She became immediately jealous and what not. My gf is my first one and she knows, but at some point she misunderstood me and thought that this old-date was an ex (even though I’ve told her 80 times we just only met one time over a period of time). Until recently I discovered that my gf thought I lied to her, so I had to explain it again. She seemed to understand it finally. What strikes me, if she thinks that I lied to her, why doesn't she just tell me 'hey man, wtf is up with that' and I could have corrected my self. But no, she just used it to fuel another 2 months of insecurity and that her delusional thoughts might be true! 

EVERYTIME I scroll through Facebook and either this old-date or an old female friend comes by in the news feed she actually sighs… wtf? I ignore it but it’s highly annoying. I've not even 200 people on FB, people I genuinely knew, she has close to 750.

The point is, even though she has tons of evidence that I am as loyal as I should be, as committed as I should be, as trustworthy as I should be… She just loses it all in a wink of an eye. She would rather believe a rumor from her arch enemy that I cheated on her without any evidence than that she would believe me 1 week explaining that nothing happened.
And so I could go on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I do love her, I care for her and I would do anything for her, but now I’m getting more aware of this I even start to re-think what ‘everything’ would be. I would like to spend the rest of my life with her, but not this way.

So please, what am I dealing with here? Are there just small things I'm overseeing? What can I do? She's really wife material, but not like this (well, way to go contradicting my self but you get the point). She is really sweet, she thinks of me in a lot of situations and if only earlier mentioned things weren't there I would marry her tomorrow. Don't get me wrong, I know a relationship has an issue left and right, but this all just seems to be fueled by fears and emotions, delusional thoughts/realities and the worst of all, an inability to actually communicate about it.

Thanks for your time! I really want some of these issues worked out.


----------



## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

The fact you can post so many negatives about her doesn't bode well for a long term future. Is she really like you show or could you be painting her like that to cover your own shortcomings? Not an attack just an honest question. Could you be considered naturally flirty for example?

If what you say is accurate, despite being someone that can completely relate to her.. you would be mad to commit to her in her current state. she definitely sounds like she needs help but making a person needing help see it and accept it is difficult.

You can help and support her getting the help she needs but you can't get it for her or make her embrace it. The only person that can fix her, is her.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> *She's really wife material, but not like this* (well, way to go contradicting my self but you get the point). She is really sweet, she thinks of me in a lot of situations and *if only *earlier mentioned things weren't there I would marry her tomorrow. Don't get me wrong, I know a relationship has an issue left and right, but this all just seems to be fueled by fears and emotions, delusional thoughts/realities and the worst of all, an inability to actually communicate about it.
> 
> Thanks for your time! I really want some of these issues worked out.


You get it! You really do. You seem to understand just how screwed up your girlfriend really is!

What you don't get is that YOU can't do ANYTHING about it. The ONLY person you can fix is YOU. The only person who can fix gf is HER...and only if she WANTS to!

I don't think you're in love with this woman....I think you're in love with a dream, an illusion of what life COULD BE LIKE if only she wasn't the way she is. But SHE IS the way she is. You are chasing after smoke!

Don't waste months/years/your life chasing after, dreaming about, wanting for something that COULD BE. It is a waste of your time, your life, your love, your energy, your creativity. Look at things as they TRULY ARE. Your gf is an insecure, controlling, manipulative, immature woman who has NO FRIENDS. She is basing her ENTIRE EXISTENCE on YOU. Therefore, you should have NO FRIENDS so you can spend MORE TIME filling her empty, cavernous, gaping, never-gonna-be-filled emotional HOLES. Can you see that?

If you really want to HELP this woman, then tell her that there will be NO ENGAGEMENT RING until AFTER she has completed AT LEAST an entire, solid year of Individual Counseling to address her jealousy, insecurity, emotional manipulation, neediness, etc.

No IC = no marriage. EVER. And, son, YOU BETTER *MEAN* IT. This behavior will only escalate and get worse if it is not addressed (think physical abuse: slapping, punching you, throwing things), now add children into the mix. Are you getting the picture?

Your gf is in serious need of help. If you don't DEMAND she get it BEFORE you step forward in this relationship, it will have a bad ending for you, her, and any children you have.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

DS, welcome to the TAM forum. You have described your GF as exhibiting the following dysfunctional behaviors:


always being "The Victim,"
verbal abuse,
temper tantrums lasting as long as 2 or 3 hours,
fear of abandonment,
low self esteem,
irrational jealousy,
controlling behavior,
childish behavior,
suicide threats,
no close long-term friends,
rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you, and
having one set of rules for herself and another set for everyone else.
Significantly, all these behaviors are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Importantly, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. These traits become a problem only when they are so strong that they undermine the person's ability to sustain a close LTR. At issue, then, is whether your GF has most of the BPD traits at a strong and persistent level.


> It actually kind of stings me that I've to post this, in this section, as if my gf would be bat**** crazy but here goes.


If your GF does have strong BPD traits, she is not "crazy." Being crazy means that a person has lost touch with physical reality, e.g., believing that the TV newscaster is speaking to her directly. BPDers see physical reality just fine but they do have a distorted perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.


> I'm really only happy if she's happy. I don't know how to explain, probably a guy thing (?).


No, it's not a "guy" thing. Rather, it's a "codependent" thing. Guys having strong personal boundaries do not fall into the trap of making their own happiness fully dependent on that of another person.


> So please, what am I dealing with here?


None of us can diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can determine whether her BPD traits are so strong and persistent that they satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. Simply spotting the red flags for it, however, is not difficult if you take time to read about them. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and fear of abandonment.

I therefore suggest you read more about BPD traits to see if they sound very familiar. An easy place to start reading is my post describing these traits in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, DS.


----------



## deathstar (Jan 17, 2013)

First of all, thx everybody for their responses, it helped me quite a bit.


K.C. said:


> The fact you can post so many negatives about her doesn't bode well for a long term future. Is she really like you show or could you be painting her like that to cover your own shortcomings? Not an attack just an honest question. Could you be considered naturally flirty for example?
> 
> If what you say is accurate, despite being someone that can completely relate to her.. you would be mad to commit to her in her current state. she definitely sounds like she needs help but making a person needing help see it and accept it is difficult.
> 
> You can help and support her getting the help she needs but you can't get it for her or make her embrace it. The only person that can fix her, is her.


Well, that's what I thought when I was writing them down. Look, she really does have her qualities, don't get me wrong. If they weren't there then she would have been long gone. I'm by no means perfect, I can be childish (be it in jokes, not when something serious comes up), but it comes to the point where I'm almost daily thinking what is up, that I'm daily thinking how to react next time when she mocks for hours. Because by now I know it's fact there is always someone or somebody going to cause it.

I'm seriously by no means flirty. She is my first girlfriend and further I hardly had any female friends (about 2), I cut contact with them really early as I thought I had to proof my seriousness harder as she questioned my intentions all the time. Anyone trying to get in touch with me via internet would immediately see I've a gf and with strangers I really quickly tell in some way or the other that I've a gf just to get any wrong intentions out of the clear. Personally I would NEVER cheat on anyone. She has 4 possibilities in this house to check my email/fb, she can check my phone (the point is, I don't want her to snoop, but if she really needed that evidence, it's right their. I often leave my phone behind when I take a shower for example).

But, in general I do get quite a few looks when we go shopping for example. On the otherhand, so does she get a lot of looks but she's too busy figuring out what girl should be on the deathlist because she looked at me. I never talk about other women in general, I don't drool before the TV when some hot actress plays, I don't highlight good features of other women and I certainly don't compare her to other women. However, she does, like saying 'he has a nice face' or 'he has nice eyes'. I don't care if she says that, because I'm also one to believe that if she would leave me/cheat on me, she in the end didn't deserve me. Surely I will be a wreck for a month or so.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You get it! You really do. You seem to understand just how screwed up your girlfriend really is!
> 
> What you don't get is that YOU can't do ANYTHING about it. The ONLY person you can fix is YOU. The only person who can fix gf is HER...and only if she WANTS to!
> 
> ...


Well, I don't know. I would say I'm in love with her, but I also would say that if only these issues weren't there, things would indeed be a lot better! Maybe it's a combination of getting back to reality that I shouldn't be her butler, but also that the longer these issues continue, the more my mind expects it to be over for once, so the dissapointment becomes stronger and stronger each time she does come up with something again.

She really does have some real affectionate and sweet times, mostly in the morning and 1 to 3 hours after work and most of the time after that she becomes passive-aggressive. Not always, but when not she's infact overly affectionate, to the point of being clingy. And even that had let her become a few times sad because 'what if I would leave her?'. But yes, I already said for my self that I'm certainly not going to the next step if these things go on like this. And it doesn't mean that if she showed 3 days, a week or even 2 months of 'good behaviour' we will get to the next step, I really want it to be longer than that just to be sure it's over. But in the end, all these little issues somehow came back every 2 weeks at a minimum. I've told her that issues before marriage will only get worse after. She bluntly told me that we are not having any real issues and things like trust and jealousy will disappear after engagemend. Well, I'm not a professional but I've read enough about that and it NEVER turned out to be true after all. Also, as I'm a student, I've the (hard) possibility to save up money for a ring, but I'm certainly not going to invest that money into a shady promise of a better future.

Counseling, yeah... problem is that we don't have a lot of money but on the otherhand, she could at least try to go a few times and at the very minimum read up on it about her self. Don't get me wrong, she isn't swearing at me or hitting me, but sometimes I wish she would in fact swear, so she would SAY something, and not that passive-aggressive boiling cookbook of anarchy. But maybe you're right and she should go there.



Uptown said:


> DS, welcome to the TAM forum. You have described your GF as exhibiting the following dysfunctional behaviors:
> always being "The Victim,"
> verbal abuse,
> temper tantrums lasting as long as 2 or 3 hours,
> ...


Wow, thanks! Well, at least I can work on something now then. I'm indeed understanding you that she has a distorted perception. Just the little things that could somehow make her sit passive-aggressive, even if it's only for 15 minutes, over things I just can't understand being worth such a drama. I used to apologize for it (not that it helped, she only used it to confirm that I should apologize indeed and continued mocking). Now I just ignore it and it has the same outcome, it's just 15 minutes or so and 'poof', she forgot it.

My happyness isn't there only if she is happy. How do I explain this; I can be happy, but it will be overshadowed trying to get my gf happy as well. If she is for whatever reason unhappy, I just don't like her seeing being unhappy. So thus far that I'm only really happy if she is as well. I feel like I'm not being a good boyfriend if she isn't happy, so that reduces my happyness. I don't know if I explained it well, and maybe it's still a matter of co-dependency after all. I will look into that too because that's really good for me to tackle if it were the case.

I'll read more on it but thus far what you've posted indeed have a reflection on my gf, some in a minor way, others really strong. I'll post here later again after some research.


----------



## deathstar (Jan 17, 2013)

Well, I've looked around for the classic 9 traits and I suppose the list below covers them? Thing is that while reading the symptoms you start to doubt yourself if YOU are not the one being in complete delusion. Now I've luckily read enough to now know that partners of BDP can actually start to feel like they're the one who are in need of help, and somehow that keeps me on track.

I'm happy to know that (as far as diagnosing people without being a professional) I know what might be going on, but for some reason it really is like a bomb went off in my head to do double checks if I'm not the delusional party here But, I know better, but even saying that could be just as delusional so yeah, you get the point The human mind is really weird.

*



1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

Click to expand...

*Well, that's pretty clear;
Clingy (verbal and physical), asks if I still love her if I didn't smile for a minute despite I've told her 15 minutes ago that I do, doesn't support me in anything that might increase attraction from other women (like working out, which I only do for self-discipline and to be honest, it boosts self-esteem as well) towards just losing her mood and (probably) hoping 'I learn my lesson' that way.

Weird thing is, if she gets the idea in her head that I don't love her, she either can become more clingy or is instead able to detach herself in an instant from me, like she never loved me in the first place. All that while not even airing that she has this thought until hours later.

*



2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

Click to expand...

*In some ways, this is correct.

Eventhough she never really devalues me... I think. She sometimes jokes (obviously a joke) that I'm her little b*tch/*****, and I don't really mind it, but I suppose this isn't devalueing me(?). Or is it in her mind?

Further, once I got too drunk on NYE with her and her family. I accidentally drank too much and got sick (no, I almost never drink too much). She was really sweet and caring, later on if people were to ask how the party was she would rather say in a devalueing way 'awesome, the party was over way too early because he got too drunk'. This went on even weeks after the incident. Understandable she expected more, but talks about me like I once again f*cked things up.

Further, her colleagues are a period of time nice people and later on not so anymore.

As we live together, she misses her mom just before we go to visit but after the visit she can't be positive about her family at all.



> 3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.


Correct, no self image at all. She thinks I deserve better, although she doesn't say that anymore. Further any women is a threat to her for being a potential replacement for her as she thinks she isn't beautiful, thinks she isn't a nice person and basically has no self-esteem.

Looks in the mirror 4 times an hour to see if everything is still good and yet always complains it isn't. I actually stopped responding to that as 4 times an hour reassuring her... it doesn't even sound like the truth anymore (I think she's beautiful, but if I say it that much it rather makes me sick).



> 4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.


She lacks this one though. Although she always complains about being fat etc. but if we're in the supermarket she always wants to buy something sweet or so. It's that I tell her whatever, not overly supporting as I know she will complain later, that she gets reminded that she almost daily says she won't buy sweet things anymore.

Once we go shopping, she always complains about the money spend afterworths while she buys it her self. Even during shopping she already complains about the total money that she will spend before we finish.

I don't know if these two examples really fit in, because in the end everybody has these days, although she has the first one 2 or 3 times a week and the second one almost always when we go shopping.



> 5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.


Yep, threatens to kills her self and me if we would break up. Tells in it a calm manner though, not in some psychotic way but yet she does say this. Occured a few times already, even though I've given her no reason to think we would break up.



> 6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.


Moodswings often occur, mostly in an instant. However it never lasts days, let alone a whole day, without once being in a good mood. 

Like she starts tickling, I tickle back and at once she loses her mood and sits passive-aggressively on the couch.

She becomes jealous over something, she sits passive-aggressively on the couch, eventually starts sobbing. All that while 15 minutes ago she was all happy, clingy, affectionate etc.

In all these situations she just doesn't tell me what's up and shrugs. In case of obvious jealousy I tell her she shouldn't be so jealous, she defends herself that it has nothing to do with that and that everybody loses their mood now and then.



> 7. Chronic feelings of emptiness


I don't really know to be honest. She doesn't really have any goals and only wants to spend time with me and do/buy/eat/drink what I want to. If I don't want to smoke she at once doesn't either want to smoke. I don't know if that is 'empty', but it's not really a 'filled personality' either



> 8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.


She loses her temper over small things, real quick. She never really starts name-calling, but if I am the cause it would still sound 'godd*mn, why do you do that!' in a serious, irritated way (even if it was just an accident).

Often she loses her mood/temper because of something isn't going the way she wants it to go. She doesn't physically abuse me or something, she doesn't really shout neither.



> 9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.


I don't really understand this one, but she is always paranoid I would leave her for an instance. Also she comes up with storys about her colleagues that one way or the other they're only there to backstab her. Her (version of her) stories don't sound really impossible, but the odds of her conclusions being true... I wonder. 

She always thinks people she doesn't like (and those don't like her either), are trying to become friends with her friends and backstab her, really paranoid, teenage stories (like popular groups in school versus non-popular people etc).

-----------------------

What I see now, like the following example, is that a lot of actions/examples can be put into multiple of these traits? And yes, it might be a bit of a rant but it gives you a bit of a view what's going on.

Like yesterday. She's looking for something and as she can't find it she becomes mad. I ask her what she's looking for so I can help her search. She says 'nothing, not important'. She continues searching for 10 minutes while swearing and mumbling. I ask her again to help and doesn't respond. Then she comes up with some idea that her brother surely stole it. I ask her again what she's looking for and says 'I already told you, a card with some important bankaccount information written on it'. I tell her she didn't tell me at all, but she says she did. I decide not to argue further about that and help looking. Then she becomes annoyed that I'm looking in places she already looked at.

Then I tell her to change her passwords and write them down again, because that's the best she could do in this situation, before somebody does have the information and/or she forgets all the information and can't login anymore. She doesn't want to listen first but gives in minutes later. Many more minutes later she finally decide to write it down as well.

We opened not long ago a new bank account for her, and she changed her password right away. I've told her once we were home to write it down so she wouldn't forget. 'Oh no, I won't forget'. So in yesterdays situation, I suggest it might be a good idea now to write that information of her new account down as well. First she denies it, where as I respond 'ok, but if you forgot it you will go to the bank your self'. Then she thinks it might be a good idea to check it after all so she tries to log into that new account and guess what, error #1. She thinks for a while and error #2 is a fact. 

She panicks and almost begs me not to become mad, while in fact I'm actually laughing while saying that I predicted this to happen. She sits there panicking further and begging more not to become mad, I even have to promise it (while the only FEW times I became mad was because she doesn't want to talk about serious matters like her jealous and trust issues). I tell her with a smile 'babe, I wont get mad, Im just a bit irritated like I'm now but that's it'.

Now comes the best part, she tells me to press enter. I think for a split second and think by my self 'if I press enter she thinks it's not her responibility'. So I deny. She starts pulling my hand, while both laughing. This seriously continues for quite a few minutes. She gives up, becomes mad and just closes the site without trying, shuts off the computer and wants to go to bed.

While in bed she asks me 'do you still love me?'. I responded that she shouldn't have to ask that. Today she woke up with a smile, all lovey dovey as usual and went to work, just knowing that at the end of the day we will surely have a 'new adventure'...

Now before I find a way to talk her into therapy... How do I cope with this behaviour? Should I just let her do it as she might have a disorder or should I strongly defend my self? How do I even start bringing up the topic of therapy? After she has for example another trust issue with me? Or when things are relaxed?

[EDIT]
Also worth mentioning is that she sometimes guilttrips me. Like she often mumbles something and no matter how hard I try to ask what she said, she will say 'nothing'. But when I do this only once, she loses her mood instantly 'thank DS, thank you, super' and ignores me. Later asks me if I still love her.

Also told her, in repsonse to her insecurity, that she should love her self before loving someone else. She simply said that she indeed doens't love her self, and that's not needed as I love her and she loves me.


----------



## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

Uptown said:


> DS, welcome to the TAM forum. You have described your GF as exhibiting the following dysfunctional behaviors:
> 
> 
> always being "The Victim,"
> ...


A lot of BPD traits tend to dissipate once anxiety and depression are controlled through medication. IMO all people with BPD have anxiety and depression. We don't know if his gf even has BPD but she definitively seems anxious and depressed.

She needs to get on meds ASAP.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

deathstar said:


> I'm happy to know that (as far as diagnosing people without being a professional) I know what might be going on.


DS, you are not "diagnosing people without being a professional." None of us is capable of doing that. What you ARE doing, as I discussed earlier, is learning how to spot the red flags. These warning signs are easy to spot when you learn what to look for because there is nothing subtle about BPD traits such as temper tantrums, low self esteem, and impulsiveness.

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queens -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. You could do all those things because you could spot the warning signs, i.e., the red flags. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong occurrences of BPD traits when they occur.


> Well, I've looked around for the classic 9 traits and I suppose the list below covers them?


Yes, that is the current list from the APA's Diagnostic Manual (DSM-1V).


> Thing is that while reading the symptoms you start to doubt yourself if YOU are not the one being in complete delusion.


As I mentioned, we ALL occasionally exhibit all nine of the BPD traits. You did this 24/7 during early childhood and continue to do so occasionally all through adulthood. These traits become a problem only when they are unusually strong and persistent.


> Now I've luckily read enough to now know that partners of BDP can actually start to feel like they're the one who are in need of help, and somehow that keeps me on track.


Yes, it is so confusing and disorienting to live with a BPDer that BPD is notorious for making a large share of the partners and spouses feel like they may be going crazy.


> Further, her colleagues are a period of time nice people and later on not so anymore.... one way or the other they're only there to backstab her.


You seem to be describing "black-white thinking," which BPDers do a lot of. This all-or-nothing thinking will be most evident in the way she categories everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and then -- in just a few seconds -- can recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or infraction. B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of extreme expressions such as "you always" and "you never."


> Correct, no self image at all. She thinks I deserve better, although she doesn't say that anymore. ... she thinks she isn't beautiful, thinks she isn't a nice person and basically has no self-esteem.


You are confusing low self esteem with lacking a strong self image. The best example you give of her having a weak self image is your statement, "She doesn't really have any goals and only wants to spend time with me and do/buy/eat/drink what I want to." People having a fragile self image have a strong desire to be around someone with a strong personality who will ground them and provide a sense of direction. Yet, after you do exactly that for them, they will eventually start to feel you are controlling and dominating them -- and will start resenting you for that reason.


> She simply said that she indeed doens't love her self, and that's not needed as I love her and she loves me.


It doesn't work that way. The problem is that, as long as she is unable to love herself, she will be incapable of really believing that you love her. Hence, her notion that your love for her will make her feel love for herself is wrong. Instead, her inability to trust you will result in an endless series of sh!t tests. Moreover, every time you pass a test, she won't feel any less secure at all. Instead, she will only raise the bar higher for your next test. Believe me, those tests will get tiresome and irritating very quickly.


> Even though she never really devalues me... I think .... but talks about me like I once again f*cked things up.... She loses her temper over small things, real quick. She never really starts name-calling, but if I am the cause it would still sound 'godd*mn, why do you do that!' in a serious, irritated way....she doesn't really shout neither.


DS, if your GF had a strong pattern of BPD traits, you should be seeing a woman who is adoring you for a period of time and then, in ten seconds, will flip to devaluing you and pushing you away. And then, several hours or several days later, she would flip back again just as quickly. You also should be seeing some impulsive risky behavior. Because you are not seeing those two things, I believe you may be describing traits closer to Paranoid PD or Avoidant PD than BPD. 

Significantly, the vast majority of BPDers (perhaps 90%) are verbally abusive when they become angry -- so much so that they throw temper tantrums that typically last several hours. In contrast, you are describing a woman who does not yell and scream -- and does not call you bad names. This means that, if she is exhibiting a strong pattern of BPD traits, she is one of the BPDers (i.e., the remaining 10%) called "quiet BPDers" and "waif borderlines." They do not punish their partners with yelling and verbal abuse. Instead, they punish with passive-aggressive snide remarks, sulking, and cold withdrawal.

I therefore suggest you read about Paranoid PD and Avoidant PD traits to see if they sound much more familiar. See, e.g., Personality disorders: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com. I also suggest you take a look at therapist Shari Schreiber's description of waif BPDers at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.. And, if you have not already done so, I suggest you read my description of typical BPDer behavior at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.

Finally, if you are seriously considering marrying this young lady, I strongly recommend that -- before spending thousands on a ring -- you spend a few hundred on seeing a clinical psychologist for a visit or two by yourself. If you are not yet willing to walk away from her, it is important that you obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.


----------



## deathstar (Jan 17, 2013)

Well, I spend some time reading and I guess you're right, if she has a PD it would most likely be a combination of something else. Or at least I hope, as if I understood things correctly BDP gets worse over time, but I came to the conclusion that BDP would be a bit of a too wild guess athe the moment. PPD is indeed a lot better match on all points. The points matching with BDP are described as less severe as with BDP, so I guess once suggested it might be BDP that I got 'caught up' in it (well, what do I know).

Even though I believe she should be able to live a careless life with me, I can live with some problems, but all these minor but also more major problems together are too much. For me the biggest problems are her trust issues, silent treatments/passive-aggressiveness and the twisting of my words to support her own thoughts. But I see one issue feeds another issue (low self-esteem for example). Right now I got the following plans

I'm trying to get her self-esteem up by making her go to the gym and guide her a bit. She actually lighted up 2 days ago as she her self is seeing a change (instead of worrying about the raw KG's which means jack****).

When she's has some weird thought or questioning my love for her, I'm pointing out she shouldn't but I also am not affectionate. When she doesn't express these 'issues' I'm showing affection. When she becomes too affectionate/clingy I try not to get caught into that (by for example being more affectionate or trying to over do it).

Getting rid of the nice guy traits I had for a while in order to ease her jealousy/trust issues. I'm becoming more assertive and I will let her know when I don't like something she does or says, but also express what i want. This happens in a calm manner of course, even by my body language/behavior instead of being affectionate and trying not to walk on eggshells.

So basically I'm more using a 'reward' system. I will see how it goes. If in the end the issues remain I'll myself go to a therapist to discuss this and get a better look at what the diagnosis might be according to him and/or how to deal with it. But fact is, no matter how much I love her, if she pushes me away with her distrust this can't last forever sadly. I'm not like it, but in the end you feel like you can do whatever you want with anybody as you didn't have her trust anyway (basically a reversed reward system).

Also, but I never wanted that, I'm not going into the role of her therapist or what so ever. I'm her boyfriend and hopefully her future husband but I don't want to get too involved into this. If all the above won't work out, I will suggest 'maybe she should talk with someone', if she doesn't want to (help her self and aknowledge there is a problem), then there's not much left to do.


----------

