# Help me see the future...??



## Sillyputty

Not in a literal sense of course but let me outline our situation. Married 17 years with 3 great kids, ages 15, 13, 9. We get along "ok" out of necessity and a commitment to make it work, I suppose, but I have serious doubts if we have a strong enough connection to make a go of it long term. As is typical (from what I read and hear), we have basically lost ourselves in raising kids, careers, interests, etc. I feel my W doesn't really know or respect me, and has never really made an effort to do so due to her unusually strong familial ties and religious upbringing. Despite all we have experienced as a family unit, I feel like she still clings to the safety and comfort of her birth family. In other words her birth family, faith, values, beliefs, etc will always trump what me and "our" family means to her. In the interest of keeping this brief, suffice it to say we have grown apart over the years. I know that sounds cliche but it really does fit this scenario. Naturally I resent this attitude/behavior and, sadly, have little respect for this (for lack of better word) "childish" outlook on life. It may seem odd that we had 3 kids together and made it this far (17 years) but I made the age old mistake that she would change or, worse, that I could change her... so my question is, has anyone here been down a similar path, and what was the outcome? I insisted on her getting counseling a while back (I've had my share over the years as well), she went maybe 3-4 times but I see little/no growth per se. I don't think she wants to change really, since her birth family perpetuates this attitude and they outnumber me by far. (She is devout roman catholic with 10 siblings!) I struggle to think there is hope for our long-term marriage, bty way I will be 58 when my youngest turns 18 so that is a long time to hang in there to "wait and see". I welcome advice from long term couples or others who can relate to my situation, what does the future hold for us???


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## PBear

You've gone to counseling, and she's gone to counseling, but what about counseling together? And you mention her religion a few times... Where do you fit into the religion spectrum?

I think things don't bode very well for you two. Once the kids are no longer a focus, I doubt you'll have enough to hold you together, based on your current state. Just my $0.02. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

I don't think things look good for you. I am 53, last kid just went off to college. Now I'm looking towards retirement and am very unhappy about what a divorce would do to me financially. She could get alimony for life if she wants it (this is a permanent alimony state). I lose my retirement, and have only about 11 years to recoup it, but alimony will severely harm my ability to save.

If the kids are a distraction now, they will continue to be one until they are out of the house. Things won't get better unless major changes are made, and she has to buy into the whole concept. Your wife has a lot of hard work to do, as do you, to rescue the marriage.

Your story is far too common. The number of people who divorce shortly after the last child leaves home is quite large.


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## Sillyputty

PBear said:


> You've gone to counseling, and she's gone to counseling, but what about counseling together? And you mention her religion a few times... Where do you fit into the religion spectrum?
> 
> I think things don't bode very well for you two. Once the kids are no longer a focus, I doubt you'll have enough to hold you together, based on your current state. Just my $0.02.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have in fact visited the local parish priests together over the years, each time he (3 different priests mind you) has suggested that the whole religion thing take a back seat to our marriage. W seems incapable of separating her faith from the various implied church obligations, yet there are very little "fruits of the spirit" to be harvested if you will. We did get married in the RC church but I have a protestant background and I have many issues with RC teachings and dogma. I did not hide it then, nor do I now but the result is a serious chasm in our relationship. Instead of compromising with me over the years, she made a hard right turn to adopt all things roman in her beliefs and practices. In retrospect I simply underestimated the hold that her upbringing had on her, I have been a loyal and devoted H all these years but yet I still fall short in her eyes due to me not following the "one true church". I attend church w/her and the kids occasionally but my faith is not dependent upon following misguided and corrupt man-made doctrines (IMHO).


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## Relationship

The purpose of getting married is because you found someone who will make you happy. So the question is, does she make you happy. Assuming she will not or cannot change who she is, can you live like this for the rest of your life?

It sounds like you are a great parent and you love your kids. Don't think for a second that the children cannot or eventually will not notice there are issues. Do not stay together for the kids. The hardest thing you will have to go through is seeing your children once in a while. Just as hard would be looking in their eyes and seeing how unhappy they are because their mom and dad are unhappy. The best thing you can do for them is to do what is right for you. Bottom line, your kids want to see you happy.


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## Married but Happy

It sounds like you both have careers, so what would be the impact of divorce? The main financial issue may simply be child support, depending on relative income and custody arrangements.

Nothing is going to change in your marriage if you stay - certainly not your wife. Given your age, NOW is the time to act if you hope to find someone else.


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## Sillyputty

Thor said:


> I don't think things look good for you. I am 53, last kid just went off to college. Now I'm looking towards retirement and am very unhappy about what a divorce would do to me financially. She could get alimony for life if she wants it (this is a permanent alimony state). I lose my retirement, and have only about 11 years to recoup it, but alimony will severely harm my ability to save.
> 
> If the kids are a distraction now, they will continue to be one until they are out of the house. Things won't get better unless major changes are made, and she has to buy into the whole concept. Your wife has a lot of hard work to do, as do you, to rescue the marriage.
> 
> Your story is far too common. The number of people who divorce shortly after the last child leaves home is quite large.


I understand this is common, that's why I am bringing it up now rather than wait until the kids are of age. It will be too late then. It would be easy to just continue along as usual, like I said we are cordial to each we just lack respect (in some ways but not all) and I feel like we have very little in common in many/most aspects of life. Some of this may be attributed to normal differences in male-female thought and needs but when you lose that respect there seems little motivation to hang in there and make things work... other than loss of financial status as you point out. I'm hoping to hear from other couples who "lost their way" but were able to regroup and find common ground despite these kind of differences.


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## Sillyputty

Relationship said:


> The purpose of getting married is because you found someone who will make you happy. So the question is, does she make you happy. Assuming she will not or cannot change who she is, can you live like this for the rest of your life?
> 
> It sounds like you are a great parent and you love your kids. Don't think for a second that the children cannot or eventually will not notice there are issues. Do not stay together for the kids. The hardest thing you will have to go through is seeing your children once in a while. Just as hard would be looking in their eyes and seeing how unhappy they are because their mom and dad are unhappy. The best thing you can do for them is to do what is right for you. Bottom line, your kids want to see you happy.


I think you hit the nail on the head - can I live like this for the rest of my life? The honest answer is I'm not sure. I've done it for a long time already. The pace of life has been dizzying so I'm not sure what things will be like when/if they ever slow down. We are not hateful or extremely unhappy so I don't think the kids are impacted in a negative way. The biggest thing for me is her perception that I don't measure up as the spiritual head of the family because I don't do (or believe) what the romans do (although I "lead" the family in every other way), I don't think she can change that perception it's almost like it is hardwired into her brain. Gulp!!!


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## Sillyputty

Married but Happy said:


> It sounds like you both have careers, so what would be the impact of divorce? The main financial issue may simply be child support, depending on relative income and custody arrangements.
> 
> Nothing is going to change in your marriage if you stay - certainly not your wife. Given your age, NOW is the time to act if you hope to find someone else.


She works part time only and was SAHM for many years prior so I would probably get hammered in court. As far as finding someone else, not sure how I feel about that either. I place a high value on peace of mind and I just don't see lots of that going on within marriage these days... whoever said marriage was a good idea anyway? LOL


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## Thor

Sillyputty said:


> I understand this is common, that's why I am bringing it up now rather than wait until the kids are of age. It will be too late then. It would be easy to just continue along as usual, like I said we are cordial to each we just lack respect (in some ways but not all) and I feel like we have very little in common in many/most aspects of life. Some of this may be attributed to normal differences in male-female thought and needs but when you lose that respect there seems little motivation to hang in there and make things work... other than loss of financial status as you point out. I'm hoping to hear from other couples who "lost their way" but were able to regroup and find common ground despite these kind of differences.



We are a couple that has failed. Let me know if you find a good answer on how to fix it.


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## Married but Happy

Sillyputty said:


> She works part time only and was SAHM for many years prior so I would probably get hammered in court. As far as finding someone else, not sure how I feel about that either. I place a high value on peace of mind and I just don't see lots of that going on within marriage these days... whoever said marriage was a good idea anyway? LOL


Divorce may be expensive - but it's worth it! As for finding someone else, I didn't say the M word. Marriage often isn't a good idea. Having been in a bad, sexless one (which I left) and my current wonderful marriage, I can see both perspectives. Barring some practical benefits, marriage isn't necessary, IMO. However, you can have both peace of mind and loving companionship that includes plentiful sex - with or without marriage.


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## Sillyputty

Thor said:


> We are a couple that has failed. Let me know if you find a good answer on how to fix it.


I think it could work if both partners were willing to do the work, but that is a big IF... I feel like I have devoted several years of my adult life to self improvement (on and off of course), W perceives it as being self absorbed and that our relationship should just magically turn around somehow. She avoids confrontation and serious discussions with me, it's role reversal from the norm I guess you could say since that is usually a male trait isn't it (i.e. avoidance)?


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## meson

Sillyputty said:


> I understand this is common, that's why I am bringing it up now rather than wait until the kids are of age. It will be too late then. It would be easy to just continue along as usual, like I said we are cordial to each we just lack respect (in some ways but not all) and I feel like we have very little in common in many/most aspects of life. Some of this may be attributed to normal differences in male-female thought and needs but when you lose that respect there seems little motivation to hang in there and make things work... other than loss of financial status as you point out. I'm hoping to hear from other couples who "lost their way" but were able to regroup and find common ground despite these kind of differences.



When our marriage was 17 years old we had kids about the same ages as yours. Our marriage started well but as time went on the kid activities, job responsibities took a toll on our free time. We no longer invested in our marriage and as a result grew distant. We fought more and more frequently. We spoke of divorce. Our communication was toxic and created an environment of mistrust and lack of respect. This past week we celebrated our 25th anniversary and our marriage has never been better. How did we recover?

I decided to try to reduce our distance. I started investing in the marriage again. I discovered that our communication needed work so I changed my method of communicating. We had more date nights. I also put myself in her shoes and realized that several of her needs were not being met. That fact that they were not being met caused her to seek them in other ways which increased our distance. I worked to meet more of her needs.

I didn't attempt to change my wife. I returned myself to the person that she fell in love with from the start. And then I improved on myself to fulfill more of her needs. My doing this created an environment of trust and comfort which then she felt inclined to meet more of my needs. The distance lessoned and we fell in love again. 

So if you had a strong bond at the beginning I believe you can recapture it by returning to the behaviors and actions at the time. If you have changed and you are not that person anymore than you may never regain it. Stop trying to change her. This set of actions implies that it's her problem and reinforces feelings of inadequacy on her part which will further distance you which is the opposit of what you want to achieve. If she feels alone she will seek comfort in her family and faith as did my wife. Your actions are helping to reinforce the schism. Look to what needs she has that you are not fulfilling and seek to change some. 

It took me a couple of years to turn it around but with my change in attitude it gave it a chance. Good luck!


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## Sillyputty

Thanks for the reply meson, your situation sounds similar albeit we didn't have the greatest connection in the early days of marriage like you did. I agree with all your suggestions and have tried them to varying degrees, I'm at a point where IMO I have given and compromised so much of my being that I'm not sure I can "give" much more. Her RCC indoctrination is so strong that anything short of priest-like behavior from me and the kids is greeted with a cold heart. This was there in the beginning I just didn't realize the depth and breadth of it and, like I said, I made the age old mistake of thinking I could change her. She also has adult ADD which complicates things immensely, a whole other story which I discussed in another post. Bottom line, I can get all the counseling in the world (and compromise more and more of myself) but unless the other half is willing to put the same (or similar) amount of energy into the marriage I have serious doubts about the long-term outlook of the marriage. Time will tell I guess, I will keep trying for now.


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## SimplyAmorous

Sillyputty said:


> Thanks for the reply meson, your situation sounds similar albeit we didn't have the greatest connection in the early days of marriage like you did. I agree with all your suggestions and have tried them to varying degrees, I'm at a point where IMO I have given and compromised so much of my being that I'm not sure I can "give" much more. *Her RCC indoctrination is so strong that anything short of priest-like behavior from me and the kids is greeted with a cold heart. This was there in the beginning I just didn't realize the depth and breadth of it and, like I said, I made the age old mistake of thinking I could change her.* She also has adult ADD which complicates things immensely, a whole other story which I discussed in another post. Bottom line, I can get all the counseling in the world (and compromise more and more of myself) but unless the other half is willing to put the same (or similar) amount of energy into the marriage I have serious doubts about the long-term outlook of the marriage. Time will tell I guess, I will keep trying for now.


I feel any reasonable person would be hard pressed to stay married to a *FUNDAMENTALIST*.. it'd drive anyone crazy ! They judge and secretly criticize everything outside of their said DOGMA.. the world is looked upon in black & white... then adding ADD to this.. surely doesn't help matters.

This could be any religion, including Catholicism... When I use the word fundamentalist & why this is so difficult, I bet you can relate to how they view their world reading this.. and to how it then AFFECTS their relationships ...

Why Fundamentalism is Wrong




> *Fundamentalism Defined*
> 
> Fundamentalism is variously described by various authors, but to me it really boils down to a rather simple test: In my view, a fundamentalist religion is a religion, any religion, that when confronted with a conflict between love, compassion and caring, and conformity to doctrine, will almost invariably choose the latter regardless of the effect it has on its followers or on the society of which it is a part.
> 
> Fundamentalist religions make this choice because they uniformly place a high priority on doctrinal conformity, with such force that it takes higher priority than love, compassion and service.
> 
> Indeed, many fundamentalists are so caught up in doctrinal seriousness, that love, service and compassion seem scarcely to even be a part of their thinking. As one correspondent said to me regarding a certain Christian sect's converts, "Its like they go in and surgically remove any sense of love or any sense of humor."
> 
> This emphasis on doctrinal conformity seems to be the result of the belief in the requirement of absolute conformity to doctrine to achieve salvation. Yet at the same time, many will also officially claim that simple acceptance of that sect's doctrine is sufficient for salvation. This dichotomy is often seen in the same sect; some of the fundamentalist Christian sects being good examples. The contradiction seems to go unnoticed or if it is noticed, it is ignored.
> 
> It seems that another facet of fundamentalist thinking is belief in the correctness of their thinking. Invariably, they will make the claim that they are right to the exclusion of others, even all others, and that they, and they alone offer the path to salvation.


Very difficult in marriage....where you feel you can never measure up....there is a grave disrespect with this also... she feels YOU are living wrongly even..a very difficult pill to swallow..So the connection remains severed, not what it should be... 

Religious differences are a huge compatibility issue...

There was a thread here asking this in the Religious section a while back....http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relati...t-share-same-religious-spiritual-beliefs.html ... 

Part of my answer was >>>"This will only work IF the couple is *not* "strict" in their religious dogmas. Those who are = disaster, endless fighting, and a walk in hell. Anyone married to a Fundamentalist when they are not.... that is like being on 2 different planets, because your foundations of Truth are entirely different. If one lives out of scripture, everything the other does will be judged with that measuring stick...." 



> *SillyPutty said*: Bottom line, I can get all the counseling in the world (and compromise more and more of myself) but unless the other half is willing to put the same (or similar) amount of energy into the marriage I have serious doubts about the long-term outlook of the marriage. Time will tell I guess, I will keep trying for now.


I am with you Sillyputty.. you are seeking more of an openness....some toleration , room to breathe for your beliefs, so long as they do not hurt your marriage ..it sounds you have been a decent Husband in the ways THAT MATTER over the years... does she realize what she stands to lose with her continuous zeal to conform / wrap & package you a Catholic -who wants nothing more than to run from the church? 

Just a sad situation..


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## Sillyputty

Thanks for the reply SA, yes it is a sad situation. The analogy between "devout" RCC and fundies is, sadly, also compelling. This passage in particular rings very true: "Fundamentalist religions make this choice because they uniformly place a high priority on doctrinal conformity, with such force that it takes higher priority than love, compassion and service." I do believe her intentions are good but as I have said before it's sort of a "can't see the forest thru the trees" type of thing. So to make matters worse, ah yes the ADD which manifests itself as irresponsible and uncaring... so I am never really sure if I am being dissed on religious/doctrinal grounds or rather is it the ADD rearing its ugly head.

As far as does she know what she stands to lose, I'm not really sure to be honest. We (sort of) had this discussion once before, I remember her saying that she would never marry again but quite honestly (and at the risk of over estimating my worth LOL), I don't see how she could thrive in today's world flying solo. I suppose she would cling all the harder to her faith which, absent me from the picture, is not really a bad alternative--providing the kids are older and are capable of making their own choices.


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