# [deleted]



## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

[deleted]


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Some leading feminist "thinker"declared that all sex is rape.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Really, the man is more vulnerable to a bad position leading to penis damage, or knee to the groin. Whatever.

If it's consensual, who cares? If not, then it may become X vs. the State of Y. If both are enjoying it, who cares. Even if one or both are not, as long as they agreed to engage, who cares? Methinks OP is promoting a non-existent issue.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Married but Happy said:


> Really, the man is more vulnerable to a bad position leading to penis damage, or knee to the groin. Whatever.
> 
> If it's consensual, who cares? If not, then it may become X vs. the State of Y. If both are enjoying it, who cares. Even if one or both are not, as long as they agreed to engage, who cares? Methinks OP is promoting a non-existent issue.


Thanks for the reply.

There is no issue. It's just an interesting thing how our bodies are naturally made.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

od19g6 said:


> *She may scream and shout during sex* while he While he may not moan as much as her.


LOL

It might be a good idea for you to lay off on the porn.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Personal said:


> LOL
> 
> It might be a good idea for you to lay off on the porn.


Well some women does do that, acting or not. That's why I use the word "may."

Thanks for the reply.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

What the heck.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Livvie said:


> What the heck.


observation and creativity.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

And just think, after its over you still have 23 hours and 52 minutes of your day left.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

VladDracul said:


> And just think, after its over you still have 23 hours and 52 minutes of your day left.


???


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I've had a couple experiences that seemed like vs. matches.

I did not have a problem losing.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I've had a couple experiences that seemed like vs. matches.
> 
> I did not have a problem losing.


If you think about it, there is no "losing" and "winning." 

It's just the match.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What is a vs match? (yes, I'm that old).


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> What is a vs match? (yes, I'm that old).


VS=Versus

or, vagina and shaft, or vagina and stick, or....that's enough.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> VS=Versus
> 
> or, vagina and shaft, or vagina and stick, or....that's enough.


Is that all? Thought it would be something more interesting like a MMA match.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Is he does mean versus for "vs" (v. or vs.) in the thread title then it's just poor grammar--- he should have just said match, not vs match. Which is confusing people.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Is that all? Thought it would be something more interesting like a MMA match.


Maybe, you are thinking a MFM match?
..........................................................................

Matches infer friction and then flame.
Maybe some arguments prior to battle.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> *Maybe, you are thinking a MFM match?*
> ..........................................................................
> 
> Matches infer friction and then flame.
> Maybe some arguments prior to battle.


Never.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Some leading feminist "thinker"declared that all sex is rape.


Does it mean they like it or not?  it’s not clear.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> Have you ever wondered that sex looks/seems like some sort of vs match?
> 
> I mean think about, it is the female sex vs the male sex and it seem like the male sex is on the offense to the female sex. The male has the phallus and the female has the hole, so the male is constantly plunging the female. Her sex positions are more vulnerable.
> 
> ...


The male sex can certainly be quite offensive I give you that...
What about if the female puts a strap-on, on, and the male bends over, so to speak? How would this kind of thing ‘fit’ into your theorem?
Or what if the female gets turned on by the male screaming and shouting first?
Perhaps you could penetrate your thoughts a little more emphalically as I’m not quite sure what you are getting at.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Imperfections said:


> Does it mean they like it or not?  it’s not clear.


I gotta say, this is an honest question!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

od19g6 said:


> ???


This response was a bad sign of the OPs age.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> Well what if the female gets turned on by the male screaming and shouting first?


That’s the best part!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Imperfections said:


> The male sex can certainly be quite offensive I give you that...
> What about if the female puts a strap-on, on, and the male bends over, so to speak? How would this kind of thing ‘fit’ into your theorem?
> Or what if the female gets turned on by the male screaming and shouting first?
> Perhaps you could penetrate your thoughts a little more emphalically as I’m not quite sure what you are getting at.


You are incorrigible.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Maybe, you are thinking a MFM match?
> ..........................................................................


MFF is more to my taste; at least it was 30-35 years ago.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> You are incorrigible.


Do you WANT me to be ‘corrigibled’? (Does this hurt?)
Everyone has their purpose in life. Unfortunately I seem to exist solely for others’ pleasures, Ma’am.
I better sign off to corrigible myself and my wife multiple times.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Some leading feminist "thinker"declared that all sex is rape.


Quote please


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> Quote please







__





Think Twice About Tenuring MacKinnon | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson


It never ceases to amaze me how some people can bombast about the evils of bigotry at one moment while




www.thecrimson.com







Here is an article. She sounds pretty wack but apparently got tenure at Harvard?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

That is because it's not thought of as intimacy first, but instead it's thought of as pleasure first. It should be intimacy that leads to pleasure. When both parties do that it changes the motivation and the dynamic.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow, really something. and how many people even heard about it? it's like judging all women by blue pill/red pill crowd....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> wow, really something. and how many people even heard about it? it's like judging all women by blue pill/red pill crowd....


LoL! Yeah. I've never ran into one like her and if I did, she probably didn't feel like sharing that wack perspective at the time.😉


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

A vs. match? Yeah, you could say that. 

I've woken up sore the next day. I've gotten cramps during and after. Maybe I'm just in terrible shape. Lol!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Women who hate men, hate themselves, some wish to be men or to be rendered neutral.
Some women just hate being on the bottom, or having their bottom being placed before men.

It is hard to be a man, soft to be a woman.
A hard woman becomes an oddity, and makes some feel, very ego inflated.

_The Typist-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Never.


I know...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> hought it would be something more interesting like a MMA match.


A big thank you for cracking me up with that one!


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> What is a vs match? (yes,





Imperfections said:


> The male sex can certainly be quite offensive I give you that...
> What about if the female puts a strap-on, on, and the male bends over, so to speak? How would this kind of thing ‘fit’ into your theorem?
> Or what if the female gets turned on by the male screaming and shouting first?
> Perhaps you could penetrate your thoughts a little more emphalically as I’m not quite sure what you are getting at.


It's just an observation.

I'm talking about what is natural, not items.

I understand that some men are more vocal, but it is general known that the woman screams and shouts more.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This response was a bad sign of the OPs age.


How so, can you explain?


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Is that all? Thought it would be something more interesting like





Blondilocks said:


> Is that all? Thought it would be something more interesting like a MMA match.


Nah, that's to violent.
Just a sex wrestling match with submission holds.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

sokillme said:


> That is because it's not thought of as intimacy first, but instead it's thought of as pleasure first. It should be intimacy that leads to pleasure. When both parties do that it changes the motivation and the dynamic.


Well sex itself is intimacy by default. Because having sex is the most up close and intimate thing that you can do with a person.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

od19g6 said:


> How so, can you explain?



Referencing @VladDracul 's response of: "And just think, after its over you still have 23 hours and 52 minutes of your day left."


being questioned as to what's that mean? demonstrates you haven't any idea what he is joking about, which is a funny statement or joke that every person older than 18 has heard. 

I'd think it's more like older than 16, but I'm adding a couple years.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

od19g6 said:


> Well sex itself is intimacy by default. Because having sex is the most up close and intimate thing up can do with a person.


True but the motivation is often times NOT about that at all.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> True but the motivation is often times NOT about that at all.


Great answer!


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's an eco-system to social reform movements, the initial idea has to come to someone, almost always it's some radical nutbar intellectual/academic. Then they proselytize to the lemmings on campus and at academic conferences and special interest conferences to other proselytizers and the base of the pyramid begins expanding and this new idea becomes embraced by more and more people.

From McKinnon comes the radical "enthusiastic and affirmative consent" standard now being written into law and the notion of retroactive rape dependent on a woman's feelings about the sexual encounter at some time in the future.

When conservatives complain about higher education being captured, she is a good example of the process - other academics had to judge her work and decide whether it was important enough to grant her tenure. The more radical the "tenure committee" the more radical becomes the academy. If McKinnon was sitting on a tenure committee do you think she would give a fair shake to a critic of her work or even her radical philosophy?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> wow, really something. and how many people even heard about it? it's like judging all women by blue pill/red pill crowd....


She's been a key player, an expert witness, a consultant, to legal reform measures. Many people may not have heard of her, but a whole lot of people have been legally ensnared by her kookie ideas now under cover of law.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> There's an eco-system to social reform movements, the initial idea has to come to someone, almost always it's some radical nutbar intellectual/academic. Then they proselytize to the lemmings on campus and at academic conferences and special interest conferences to other proselytizers and the base of the pyramid begins expanding and this new idea becomes embraced by more and more people.
> 
> From McKinnon comes the radical "enthusiastic and affirmative consent" standard now being written into law and the notion of retroactive rape dependent on a woman's feelings about the sexual encounter at some time in the future.
> 
> When conservatives complain about higher education being captured, she is a good example of the process - other academics had to judge her work and decide whether it was important enough to grant her tenure. The more radical the "tenure committee" the more radical becomes the academy. If McKinnon was sitting on a tenure committee do you think she would give a fair shake to a critic of her work or even her radical philosophy?


LoL! No. But I see the bigger picture of what these useful idiots are being used for.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Quote please





> *W*hen most people think of Andrea Dworkin, they think of two things: overalls and the idea that all sex is rape. This is the popular interpretation of her 1987 polemic Intercourse, and while she didn’t exactly say that, she didn’t exactly not say it either. She wrote that _intercourse_ is a “means of physiologically making a woman inferior,” which is pretty easy to take issue with, but then she also wrote that “in ****ing, the deepest emotions one has about life as a whole are expressed, even with a stranger, however random or impersonal the encounter. Rage, hatred, bitterness, joy, tenderness, even mercy, all have their home in this passion, in this act,” which is pretty right on. . . . .
> 
> She really did say that romance is “rape embellished with meaningful looks” (in a speech she gave in Bryant Park at a “Take Back the Night” march in 1979) and that “men are ****s and take pride in it” (in her memoir, _Heartbreak_).


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

A women can be on the offense during PIV sex. I do it all the time, initiate with my man, climb on top and go. I offensively try to get my orgasm during every single sexual act. 

I’m like a praying mantis female that bites the head off the male I just had sex with. Now she is on the offense.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

od19g6 said:


> The male has the phallus and the female has the hole, so the male is constantly plunging the female. Her sex positions are more vulnerable.


If this is what you know of sex keep exploring.



Blondilocks said:


> Is that all? Thought it would be something more interesting like a MMA match.


Me, too. I was all ready to discuss holds and how to pin a guy without causing permanent damage.



od19g6 said:


> Well sex itself is intimacy by default. Because having sex is the most up close and intimate thing that you can do with a person.


Sex is a physical activity like any other. It can be an expression of intimacy, sure, but casual sex is a thing. Many of us can have great sex and it be no more intimate than a getting a massage.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

As a former wrestler, I bristle at the sex wrestling comparison. Probably because regardless of off the wall feminist sayings, I've never tried sex with an uncooperative partner. 
I'd say it's a lot like Ball room dancing with less rules. and no shoes.
of course that may be the whole problem. Perhaps Mrs. N married me hoping for a wrestling tournament, only to get a slow dance.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> It's just an observation.
> 
> I'm talking about what is natural, not items.
> 
> I understand that some men are more vocal, but it is general known that the woman screams and shouts more.


Do you know why? 
According to my own personal research, females use copulatory vocalisations (moaning) mainly for 2 evolutionary reasons:

1. To boost the self-esteem of the male copulator, causing him to ejaculate faster

2. To attract other males within the vicinity, in case they have better quality sperm than the first guy...

Clever huh? The second kinda invalidates the first reason. Next time she lets out a moan, keep in mind that it’s probably subconsciously directed at Derek, from across the road. Have fun


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> A women can be on the offense during PIV sex. I do it all the time, initiate with my man, climb on top and go. I offensively try to get my orgasm during every single sexual act.
> 
> I’m like a praying mantis female that bites the head off the male I just had sex with. Now she is on the offense.


Thanks for your reply.

In my opinion, penetration alone is naturally an act of dominance.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> If this is what you know of sex keep exploring.


I have my observations and opinions.



MJJEAN said:


> Sex is a physical activity like any other. It can be an expression of intimacy, sure, but casual sex is a thing. Many of us can have great sex and it be no more intimate than a getting a massage.


I think this is about meanings and terms. Maybe you are mixing intimacy with love. I definitely agree that sex is not love, it is a physical activity. 

But sex is intimacy because it is the closest we get to another person.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> In my opinion, penetration alone is naturally an act of dominance.


So what?

What significance do you attach to the sun rising every morning?


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> As a former wrestler, I bristle at the sex wrestling comparison. Probably because regardless of off the wall feminist sayings, I've never tried sex with an uncooperative partner.
> I'd say it's a lot like Ball room dancing with less rules. and no shoes.
> of course that may be the whole problem. Perhaps Mrs. N married me hoping for a wrestling tournament, only to get a slow dance.


Of course she's cooperating.

Maybe the point is and what is comes down to is that I my opinion, penetration itself is a natural act of dominance.

also the woman is in display positions during sex, which seems like submission holds.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

od19g6 said:


> penetration itself is a natural act of dominance.


Back to wrestling, the act of dominance is capture and control, even envelopment. 
Also from wrestling top position is dominant, and that is very variable.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> So what?
> 
> What significance do you attach to the sun rising every morning?


Just my opinion.

It's not like we have two suns or something.

I'm just talking about a physical activity that to people do.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> Back to wrestling, the act of dominance is capture and control, even envelopment.
> Also from wrestling top position is dominant, and that is very variable.


you just said it, control.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> I have my observations and opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you asking what sex is or what it means to people? 
Sex can be many things.
It could be an expression of love. It could be a physical activity. It could be a power struggle. It could be a way to escape reality. Basically, it can be the bestest most wholesome experience money can buy...
Or it can be like air: it’s not important until you aren’t getting any.

But if you are asking who’s in charge: whether you are the one doing the penetrating or not, remember that women have all the power because they are in charge of all of the vaginas (or close to most of them).


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> Just my opinion.
> 
> It's not like we have two suns or something.
> 
> I'm just talking about a physical activity that to people do.


You're assigned values of dominance and submission to sex acts, so I'm asking you what value you attach to a sunrise or a rainshower or snowfall. Is snowfall a nurturing act because the snow blankets the ground much like a mother would put a blanket over a sleeping child?


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> To boost the self-esteem of the male copulator, causing him to ejaculate faster


And that right there is one of her sex techniques.

Look, I'm not saying that sex actually is a versus match, I'm just saying that sex "look or seems" like a versus match.

The male and the female are not actually fighting.

It's not serious, just something interesting to think about.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Imperfections said:


> Do you know why?
> According to my own personal research, females use copulatory vocalisations (moaning) mainly for 2 evolutionary reasons:
> 
> 1. To boost the self-esteem of the male copulator, causing him to ejaculate faster
> ...


Yea men orgasm faster than women, so women are left unsatisfied which is why we wait around for Derek in hopes he heard us:


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> Are you asking what sex is or what it means to people?
> Sex can be many things.
> It could be an expression of love. It could be a physical activity. It could be a power struggle. It could be a way to escape reality. Basically, it can be the bestest most wholesome experience money can buy...
> Or it can be like air: it’s not important until you aren’t getting any.
> ...


I'm not asking what sex means. Because I understand that sex can mean different things to different people.

It can be a physical expression of love, but it is not love itself. You can physically express love in other ways too.

Like I said, just my opinions

Thanks for the reply.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Yea men orgasm faster than women, so women are left unsatisfied which is why we wait around for Derek in hopes he heard us:


Solarcaine (a sunburn anesthetic) liberally applied over his johnson deadens that meat stick right good.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> You're assigned values of dominance and submission to sex acts, so I'm asking you what value you attach to a sunrise or a rainshower or snowfall. Is snowfall a nurturing act because the snow blankets the ground much like a mother would put a blanket over a sleeping child?


Oh ok.

Well the topic is about sex because this is a marriage and sex forum.

I think it would be kind of odd to talk about strictly the environment on here.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Yea men orgasm faster than women, so women are left unsatisfied which is why we wait around for Derek in hopes he heard us:


I knew that...
Way ahead of you: I now call for Derek myself, whether my wife moans or not, hah! Look who is laughing now! 

OP: do you play a lot of computer games or something? I wonder why you chose Vs match for sex comparison...
I can think of other comparisons in that vein: for example attempting oral on a woman is like The Legend of Zelda: you keep going to the same place but still can’t figure **** out or unlock stuff.
Or maybe Mario Bros: when you take turns with the pizza delivery guy and bounce up and down together while on mushrooms...
Or perhaps Grand Theft Auto? Ok, best to stop right here before it gets too weird.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> Oh ok.
> 
> Well the topic is about sex because this is a marriage and sex forum.
> 
> I think it would be kind of odd to talk about strictly the environment on here.


Children's books and cartoons anthropomorphize animals, give them human motivations and character. There is no substantive connection between a real bear in the woods and a cartoon bear who is lovable and wears a hat. It's all nonsense.

You're engaging in a appeal to nature fallacy. The sex act requires a man to insert his penis into the vagina, this though is not an expression of dominance, this is nature, the sex act is how it is, there are no human cultural values attached to the sex act, no more than there are human cultural values attached to a sunrise, a rain shower or a snowfall.

There's a secondary aspect to this and that's the naturalistic fallacy, slightly different from the appeal to nature fallacy. This is the effort to extract a meaning of OUGHT from an act of IS. The sexual act of intercourse simply is what it is, a penis thrusting into a vagina. You're trying to extract a meaning with some significance to humans, domination and submission, from a mere act of nature.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> I'm not asking what sex means. Because I understand that sex can mean different things to different people.
> 
> It can be a physical expression of love, but it is not love itself. You can physically express love in other ways too.
> 
> ...


You mean, sex to you has ‘the appearance of’ a vs match?
I never thought of liking sex to two sweaty dudes jumping and pretend-knocking each other out (joking, I know what you mean).

It’s not either or. It’s ONE of the ways to express love. Not the ONLY way.
It’s like life: it can be either meaningFUL or meaningLESS. You are responsible for what you make of it.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> I'm not asking what sex means. Because I understand that sex can mean different things to different people.
> 
> It can be a physical expression of love, but it is not love itself. You can physically express love in other ways too.
> 
> ...


My question to you then: what do you think love actually is?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> It’s like life: it can be either meaningFUL or meaningLESS. You are responsible for what you make of it.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> My question to you then: what do you think love actually is?


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


>


Oh man, I want those two minutes of my life back


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> Oh man, I want those two minutes of my life back


That cat has it rough. Must be because it is French.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> That cat has it rough. Must be because it is French.


Or black? Sorry I meant African-American


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Children's books and cartoons anthropomorphize animals, give them human motivations and character. There is no substantive connection between a real bear in the woods and a cartoon bear who is lovable and wears a hat. It's all nonsense.
> 
> You're engaging in a appeal to nature fallacy. The sex act requires a man to insert his penis into the vagina, this though is not an expression of dominance, this is nature, the sex act is how it is, there are no human cultural values attached to the sex act, no more than there are human cultural values attached to a sunrise, a rain shower or a snowfall.
> 
> There's a secondary aspect to this and that's the naturalistic fallacy, slightly different from the appeal to nature fallacy. This is the effort to extract a meaning of OUGHT from an act of IS. The sexual act of intercourse simply is what it is, a penis thrusting into a vagina. You're trying to extract a meaning with some significance to humans, domination and submission, from a mere act of nature.


I understand that with some people sexual intercourse is what it is without any meaning.

But as you know we humans attach meaning and give things definitions.

That's really up to the individuals if they want to do that.

That's why I keep saying this is my thoughts and opinions


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> I understand that with some people sexual intercourse is what it is without any meaning.
> 
> But as you know we humans attach meaning and give things definitions.
> 
> ...


So what meaning do you attach to snowfalls?


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> I understand that with some people sexual intercourse is what it is without any meaning.
> 
> But as you know we humans attach meaning and give things definitions.
> 
> ...


OP: your observations are interesting and valid..
You bring up two interesting aspects of sex: power dynamic and different meanings that people may or may not attach to it.

I’m only a little bit puzzled why you personally seem to feel that sex is very much detached from ‘love’ itself. Have you ever had sex with someone you have loved? Once you do, I think your notions of it may change.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Imperfections said:


> OP: your observations are interesting and valid..
> You bring up two interesting aspects of sex: power dynamic and different meanings that people may or may not attach to it.
> 
> I’m only a little bit puzzled why you personally seem to feel that sex is very much detached from ‘love’ itself. Have you ever had sex with someone you have loved? Once you do, I think your notions of it may change.


Well like I said, sex itself is not love, but it can be one of the expressions of love.

I like to call sex adult play time.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

od19g6 said:


> I understand that some men are more vocal, but *it is general known that the woman screams and shouts more*.


Seriously out of concern for your cognitive welfare, I implore you to lay off watching porn.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Personal said:


> Seriously out of concern for your cognitive welfare, I implore you to lay off watching porn.


So you're not making that reply just to troll me are you?

Be honest.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> So what meaning do you attach to snowfalls?


I'm sure that someone can come up with an observation about snowfalls.

And if they do that's there opinion.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

od19g6 said:


> So you're not making that reply just to troll me are you?
> 
> Be honest.


What you claim isn't typical except in porn.

So as a consequence of you claiming it is common, I feel it is good advice to encourage you to eschew pornography. Lest you keep believing things that aren't true.


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## od19g6 (Dec 14, 2020)

Personal said:


> What you claim isn't typical except in porn.
> 
> So as a consequence of you claiming it is common, I feel it is good advice to encourage you to eschew pornography. Lest you keep believing things that aren't true.


Maybe it's not typical, but it does happen.

People can act the way they want in their own bedroom. It's non of our business.

If some people want to be vocal like porn stars let them, it's their bedroom.

people view sex differently.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

od19g6 said:


> Well like I said, sex itself is not love, but it can be one of the expressions of love.
> 
> I like to call sex adult play time.


Ok, so if you say ‘sex is not love’, you must have some idea of what ‘love’ is? Can you say what you think it is? Or how it ‘shows’? Where you have ‘seen’ it? (That’s why I asked if you felt it).

People feel stuff during sex, even if it looks like monkeys are having sex. And if people feel loved during sex, how is this distinguishable from love itself? 

This is the thing. Everyone seems to know what love is (or they seem to know what it isn’t) but find it hard to explain. It’s not too dissimilar like the idea of God; some people just seem to feel it. 
Anyway, you seem a bit disappointed with what you know (or seen) so far about sex; it’s not that bad. Mostly. Soon you will consider yourself lucky to even be ‘allowed’ to participate in a bit of ‘arm wrestling’, once or twice a month...with or without love


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> As a former wrestler, I bristle at the sex wrestling comparison. Probably because regardless of off the wall feminist sayings, I've never tried sex with an uncooperative partner.
> I'd say it's a lot like Ball room dancing with less rules. and no shoes.
> of course that may be the whole problem. Perhaps Mrs. N married me hoping for a wrestling tournament, only to get a slow dance.


Compromise - try the Tango (it's also ballroom dancing).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> As a former wrestler, I bristle at the sex wrestling comparison. Probably because regardless of off the wall feminist sayings, I've never tried sex with an uncooperative partner.
> I'd say it's a lot like Ball room dancing with less rules. and no shoes.
> of course that may be the whole problem. Perhaps Mrs. N married me hoping for a wrestling tournament, only to get a slow dance.


The fact is, it's not, and I mean not, to have sex with an uncooperative partner.

That just sounds bad. 

It's about fully engaging the body, sometimes at the expense of the mind, with a fully cooperative partner.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

od19g6 said:


> Maybe it's not typical, but it does happen.
> 
> People can act the way they want in their own bedroom. It's non of our business.
> 
> ...


And men can also choose to be very vocal in the bedroom and submissive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Imperfections said:


> Do you know why?
> According to my own personal research, females use copulatory vocalisations (moaning) mainly for 2 evolutionary reasons:
> 
> 1. To boost the self-esteem of the male copulator, causing him to ejaculate faster
> ...


My moans are for Derek. Get it straight man!😆


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> And men can also choose to be very vocal in the bedroom and submissive.


And/or.

I do not mind dominate women at all I'm generally more vocal than Mrs. Conan though I'm certainly more dominate as well.

Mrs. Conan has very short bursts of noise that are very loud depending on what is happening though our first week together, she was making happy puppy noises almost non-stop.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> My moans are for Derek. Get it straight man!


Derek!!!! I’m tired please take over!!!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Derek!!!! I’m tired please take over!!!!


Hahahaha!😆


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

od19g6 said:


> I have my observations and opinions.
> 
> I think this is about meanings and terms. Maybe you are mixing intimacy with love. I definitely agree that sex is not love, it is a physical activity.
> 
> But sex is intimacy because it is the closest we get to another person.


I think you misunderstand intimacy in this context.

Intimacy means close familiarity. I can have sex with a man and be neither close to nor familiar with him the same way a person might play a basketball game with another person they just met. We're participating in a physical activity together. It has nothing to do with closeness or familiarity. It has to do with physicality. Nothing more. With a FWB or romantic relationship partner sex can be an intimate act as there is a certain closeness and familiarity there. But with dude I met at a party 2 hrs ago? Yeah, no, there is no intimacy there.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The fact is, it's not, and I mean not, to have sex with an uncooperative partner.
> 
> That just sounds bad.
> 
> It's about fully engaging the body, sometimes at the expense of the mind, with a fully cooperative partner.


And, sometimes at the expense of the body, phew!
Ouch!


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Children's books and cartoons anthropomorphize animals, give them human motivations and character. There is no substantive connection between a real bear in the woods and a cartoon bear who is lovable and wears a hat. It's all nonsense.
> 
> You're engaging in a appeal to nature fallacy. The sex act requires a man to insert his penis into the vagina, this though is not an expression of dominance, this is nature, the sex act is how it is, there are no human cultural values attached to the sex act, no more than there are human cultural values attached to a sunrise, a rain shower or a snowfall.
> 
> There's a secondary aspect to this and that's the naturalistic fallacy, slightly different from the appeal to nature fallacy. This is the effort to extract a meaning of OUGHT from an act of IS. The sexual act of intercourse simply is what it is, a penis thrusting into a vagina. You're trying to extract a meaning with some significance to humans, domination and submission, from a mere act of nature.


I don't understand the purpose of trying to look at human sex through a strictly biological lens. Few things in the world have more human cultural values attached to them than human sex so trying to separate the cultural values and sexuality from the sex act is impossible and pointless.

Even if you could separate biology from human cultural values, you get caught up in an academic debate about if or how the strictly biological nature of sex has influenced the cultural values - e.g. men being physically stronger, the act lending itself to more male "action" than female (and we all get that females can be dominant and "grind" or whatever). The part of male testosterone in the physical act. The female biology and innate "wiring" that sex is associated with pregnancy. The male's innate wiring around spreading his seed. I know that some of these things are subject to debate but my point is that even without going to cultural values, you still have biological factors that influence sexual activity and the nature of the physical act.

That aside and to the more interesting part of this discussion, I do think that sexuality and sex is strongly male dominant that testosterone influences sex in that direction. In fact I do believe that there is an innate level of male aggression in the sex act. Obviously this varies in practice and is influenced by cultural values but I think that's the default for male sex. I believe that sex in early primitive man (before development of societies, strong cultural values, and rule of law, etc) was an even more aggressive act and probably often looked more like what we today call "rape".


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I think you misunderstand intimacy in this context.
> 
> Intimacy means close familiarity. I can have sex with a man and be neither close to nor familiar with him the same way a person might play a basketball game with another person they just met. We're participating in a physical activity together. It has nothing to do with closeness or familiarity. It has to do with physicality. Nothing more. With a FWB or romantic relationship partner sex can be an intimate act as there is a certain closeness and familiarity there. But with dude I met at a party 2 hrs ago? Yeah, no, there is no intimacy there.


Yes, i think it depends on how you see the word "intimacy". In my view of "intimacy", being at least partly naked, having a man inside of your body and touching you all over is about as intimate as you can get. It doesn't matter how much you know him or are familiar with him.

Telling another human your life story and exposing all your fears, vulnerabilities, deepest secrets is intimate. But so is having another human in your body, sharing orgasms in that state, doing an act that was designed in nature to reproduce, taking his fluid into your body, etc. Making yourself vulnerable to him. etc.

I'm in no way questioning how you feel about sex but as a woman, i can't imagine sex being viewed as a strictly physical activity like basketball...even "casual sex". I think "casual sex" is an oxymoron - there is nothing casual about it. BTW, i have had more than my share of "casual sex" with strangers so this is not a view from someone who only views sex as part of a close "intimate" relationship. But it's always been intense mentally and physically and "intimate".

BTW2 - I think that pushing your body to limits in an intensely physical contact sport like basketball DOES have a level of intimacy associated with it and it's intense in the mind as well as physically.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

JustTheWife said:


> But it's always been intense mentally and physically and "intimate".


I guess I'm just wired differently. For me there isn't any sense of mental or physical intimacy in casual sex. It's just a thing that feels good, a physical release, and that's all.



JustTheWife said:


> But so is having another human in your body, sharing orgasms in that state, doing an act that was designed in nature to reproduce, taking his fluid into your body, etc. Making yourself vulnerable to him. etc.


For me, when having casual sex, a penis in my vagina is not an intimate act any more than any other physical stimulation is. 

Orgasms aren't shared, they are had separately even if they happen to occur at the same time much like two people in the same room can experience the same event separately, but together.

I separated sex from reproduction long ago when I was young and learned of birth control, so sex is something I've always seen as a recreational with possible reproductive "side effects". Honestly, I don't see reproduction as a particularly intimate act, either. Any two horny strangers can create the conditions for sperm and egg to join. What's so intimate about a simple biological act?

I was always big on condom use and have never had a casual sex partner's fluids inside me. 

I can't imagine being vulnerable during a casual encounter.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I guess I'm just wired differently. For me there isn't any sense of mental or physical intimacy in casual sex. It's just a thing that feels good, a physical release, and that's all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. Clearly everyone is different.

I can relate to some of what you're saying. I always like to close my eyes when having an orgasm and not even wanting the guy to know what was happening. Being introverted, I don't easily open up to people - sex or no sex. I don't really wish to connect with people except close friends. "Casual" sex to me was not about deeply connecting with people. So I get what you mean on that.

But intimacy also means private and personal so it doesn't necessarily mean that you are close to another person. But when that other person is inside of your body, it's very personal for me. Maybe being introverted, it feels more intimate..more personal. More vulnerable, if you will.

For me that's the exciting part of sex. That you're letting someone into your "intimacy". Somewhat out of the comfort zone. Heart pounding (and not just from physical activity). I would imagine that if I saw sex just like playing basketball or going shopping, it would lose a lot of the excitement. Just the purely physical aspect of "getting off" is not sexy or exciting for me. No intrigue or mystique. I masturbate which is a physical release but for me, sex with another human is very different from masturbating as it has an intimacy about it. I don't mean this in the wrong way but what you're describing sounds more like "assisted masturbation". 

So sex for me goes far beyond just the physical aspect of it. That's the simple, mechanical part of it. What's in your head and when you're taken on an intimate emotional journey is the interesting and complex part of it. I can't imagine sex being just like masturbating but with someone else doing some of the work. And again, i'm not talking about sex in a loving relationship. I'm talking about one night stands. Although i've had sex with a lot of guys, i'm happy that it didn't take me to the point where it became meaningless and I felt nothing except "getting off".


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