# Let's be friends.



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I bet you think this post is about how stupid it is when WS say lets be friends after they cheat. 

Nope, I am always struck by BS who what to R but when they WS says lets just be friends the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like that"? 

To which I always say to myself, but you are willing to R and have a marriage with someone like that? 

Makes no sense.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> So I bet you think this post is about how stupid it is when WS say lets be friends after they cheat.
> 
> Nope, I am always struck by BS who what to R but when they WS says lets just be friends the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like that"?
> 
> ...


*Because they are intrinsically weak, have no pride, or are even better described as "doormats!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *Because they are intrinsically weak, have no pride, or are even better described as "doormats!"*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife cheated on me. 

While the "let's be friends" conversation never came up, she knew that would not be an option. I had several conditions for R and my wife met all of them. She also displayed remorse, shame, and guilt.

I guess I'm a doormat. 

Fvck it. I've been called worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My first girlfriend gave me the "Let's remain friends" nonsense.

And it was nonsense as I rapidly discovered that she didn't mean it. 

Though six months after she dumped me for her conman POSOM she did send me an invitation to her wedding to the chump she found after she dumped POSOM!

I gracefully declined. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I view my spouse in a whole other league than a friend. That's based on my interpretation of what "friend"symbolizes, encompasses, and means to me. 

Some people call their spouse /partner "my best friend." Personally, this association makes me cringe. Constable Odo and I have never, ever referred to each other as friends. We both believe that what we have can't compare with a friendship because it's much deeper than our collective understanding of the word and it's an inadequate and inappropriate descriptor. 

If I ever called Odo my friend, he'd be insulted. As would I if he did the same to me. 

My ex husband wanted to stay my "friend." I was insulted then, too, because of all we had been through. It would have been more respectful if he'd said we should part ways and never speak again. Since he didn't understand my feelings on the matter, I did what he couldnt/didn't want to. It showed our complete incompatibility in the matter. 

These are just my opinions. I've known many spouses/SO's that refer to each other as "best friend" and they truly believe it and it works for them. 

But to your original question, perhaps the reason a BS would rather work on repairing a marriage rather than be "demoted" to friendship is because they view the suggestion as an insult, as I would.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> My wife cheated on me.
> 
> While the "let's be friends" conversation never came up, she knew that would not be an option. I had several conditions for R and my wife met all of them. She also displayed remorse, shame, and guilt.
> 
> ...


* @As'laDain ~ I never really meant that as any kind of a demeaning or a derogatory term!

And with all due respect, if you take the time to read my rather lengthy story, truth be told, I was duly considered as a "doormat" by my RSXW! In fact, after talking with some of our mutual friends right after our separation and ultimate divorce, I feel rather certain that I was the second husband, out of two, that she had effectively cheated on!

And now that she's just recently been remarried, I could not possibly wager a dollar against a jelly donut, against the sobering probability that she's, no doubt, busy working on No.3!

IMHO, the stark reality of the matter is that "she attracts" men that she can and will ultimately come to cheat on!

*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Hey Arb, seems your X was one of those who liked to keep her options open all the time, but likes the idea of being married too. So she ends up always with one foot in the door crack. Reminds me of a lot of guys out there who are afraid to commit. Then just don't get married!! UGH


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Hey Arb, seems your X was one of those who liked to keep her options open all the time, but likes the idea of being married too. So she ends up always with one foot in the door crack. Reminds me of a lot of guys out there who are afraid to commit. Then just don't get married!! UGH


*Yeah, Gabe! She liked to keep her options open alright!

Options, that is, to get into other men's pants and to fastidiously "go up and down on their Matterhorn!" 

"Quote/Unquote!" ~ My RSXW!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think in some cases the BS is kind of in shock and still sees the WS through "spouse goggles", if that's a thing. With my BIL he spent a long, long time trying to reconcile with his cheating wife. I guess he still saw her as someone he could remain married to. Maybe he thought she was going through a phase and would return to the person he always though she was. I can't imagine being married to someone who you think has same beliefs and morals then finding out they are completely a different person. It would send me reeling. Now the the goggles are completely gone and he only talks to her when he absolutely has to. He now finds her very unattractive.

It is funny though, how she wants to be friends. She wants to text back and forth like they are buddies. She got mad when she wasn't invited to his Halloween party. One day she was picking up the kids from his house and she was saying how she had an awful day at work, then she just stood there like she wanted comforting hug. Later, she called him to tell him off because she really needed a hug. He told her, "I'm not that person anymore. Your new boyfriend can to that now."


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> So I bet you think this post is about how stupid it is when WS say lets be friends after they cheat.
> 
> Nope, I am always struck by BS who what to R but when they WS says lets just be friends the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like that"?
> 
> ...


It makes perfect sense to me ~~ when the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like THIS" in response to an active wayward's stated desire to divorce, continue their affair and "stay friends" with the BS, what I think BS's, like me, were referring to was the entirety of the betrayal as still occurring, continuing and as fully intended and conceived of by the unrepentant wayward spouse, including, the cheating {obviously}, the divorce, the taking + loss of 1/2 of my stuff, the loss of my time with the children, the loss of children's time with me, the forever negative influence and effects she would have blindly been upon our children, child support, alimony, ********* second+third+fourth husband's and the never ending consequences to everyone involved with the CONTINUANCE of the betrayal. Had my wife remained unrepentant she'd have remained and continued to be an abusive hurtful {and damaged} person I'd forever {or until repentance ~~ which becomes more and more unlikely as time goes by} be better off disassociated from, even if I chose to forgive her.

However, when they stop the affair, repent and commit to and undertake recovery, the multiplying of the betrayal and it's spiraling consequences stops. Difficult consequences remain. There's no mistaking or excusing that ~~ but, if done properly {and truly} they can and do turn from their sin and can become no longer "someone like that" and staying together can become the logical, healthy and heartfelt choice. People aren't disposable nor replaceable. There is only one "bride of my youth" and I {and many others in our life including our children and grandchildren} are so fortunate we have her back from the darkness.

We are all sinners to some degree or another. To cast irredeemable aspersions exclusively upon adulterers, thread after thread, is simply an indictment upon all humanity, if not, perhaps, a demonstration of someone lacking empathy themselves as you bully and condemn the supposed unredeemable in a social group environment that includes active and former adulterers as well as recovered|recovering betrayed spouses seeking help and understanding while simply furthering an agenda of intolerance, ignorance and hate through tribalism {us vs them or BS's vs WS's}. Attacking waywards and recovered betrayed spouse's isn't exactly "coping with infidelity" for you, is it? Does venting this hate, thread after thread, really help you "cope" with this subject? I feel that everyone, including you and adulterers, has the ability to change, grow, mature, learn, love, empathize, repent, forgive and become better persons that do better things. At least I HOPE so.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Soccermom,

You wrote, *It is funny though, how she wants to be friends. She wants to text back and forth like they are buddies. She got mad when she wasn't invited to his Halloween party. One day she was picking up the kids from his house and she was saying how she had an awful day at work, then she just stood there like she wanted comforting hug. Later, she called him to tell him off because she really needed a hug. He told her, "I'm not that person anymore. Your new boyfriend can to that now."*

Oddly the fact that your BIL showed true character in fighting for his marriage during her horrible affair has made your BIL very attractive to his WW once her affair blinders dropped off. The greatest loyalty is loyalty to someone who is cheating on you. 

Sick, I know, but this seems to happen often.

Tamat


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

@Satya, 

"I view my spouse in a whole other league than a friend. That's based on my interpretation of what "friend"symbolizes, encompasses, and means to me.

Some people call their spouse /partner "my best friend." Personally, this association makes me cringe. Constable Odo and I have never, ever referred to each other as friends. We both believe that what we have can't compare with a friendship because it's much deeper than our collective understanding of the word and it's an inadequate and inappropriate descriptor."

My sentiments exactly. I've taken crap on here for expressing this opinion. To each their own. It seems the people expressing this opinion (mainly women, I've noticed) think it is the highest compliment.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Quality said:


> We are all sinners to some degree or another. To cast irredeemable aspersions exclusively upon adulterers, thread after thread, is simply an indictment upon all humanity, if not, perhaps, a demonstration of someone lacking empathy themselves as you bully and condemn the supposed unredeemable in a social group environment that includes active and former adulterers as well as recovered|recovering betrayed spouses seeking help and understanding while simply furthering an agenda of intolerance, ignorance and hate through tribalism {us vs them or BS's vs WS's}. Attacking waywards and recovered betrayed spouse's isn't exactly "coping with infidelity" for you, is it? Does venting this hate, thread after thread, really help you "cope" with this subject? I feel that everyone, including you and adulterers, has the ability to change, grow, mature, learn, love, empathize, repent, forgive and become better persons that do better things. At least I HOPE so.


Very well said, I agree we are all sinners....but there is just something about betrayal thou, just seems on a class of its own, I can't precisely put a finger on it but it feels unique and alien to me. I have sinned, big and small, been selfish, careless, etc....but betrayal, to someone fully knowingly, no, I don't feel is something I can do willingly....well who knows maybe I can, just haven't been under the right (wrong) circumstances perhaps.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Quality said:


> It makes perfect sense to me ~~ when the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like THIS" in response to an active wayward's stated desire to divorce, continue their affair and "stay friends" with the BS, what I think BS's, like me, were referring to was the entirety of the betrayal as still occurring, continuing and as fully intended and conceived of by the unrepentant wayward spouse, including, the cheating {obviously}, the divorce, the taking + loss of 1/2 of my stuff, the loss of my time with the children, the loss of children's time with me, the forever negative influence and effects she would have blindly been upon our children, child support, alimony, ********* second+third+fourth husband's and the never ending consequences to everyone involved with the CONTINUANCE of the betrayal. Had my wife remained unrepentant she'd have remained and continued to be an abusive hurtful {and damaged} person I'd forever {or until repentance ~~ which becomes more and more unlikely as time goes by} be better off disassociated from, even if I chose to forgive her.
> 
> However, when they stop the affair, repent and commit to and undertake recovery, the multiplying of the betrayal and it's spiraling consequences stops. Difficult consequences remain. There's no mistaking or excusing that ~~ but, if done properly {and truly} they can and do turn from their sin and can become no longer "someone like that" and staying together can become the logical, healthy and heartfelt choice. People aren't disposable nor replaceable. There is only one "bride of my youth" and I {and many others in our life including our children and grandchildren} are so fortunate we have her back from the darkness.
> 
> We are all sinners to some degree or another. To cast irredeemable aspersions exclusively upon adulterers, thread after thread, is simply an indictment upon all humanity, if not, perhaps, a demonstration of someone lacking empathy themselves as you bully and condemn the supposed unredeemable in a social group environment that includes active and former adulterers as well as recovered|recovering betrayed spouses seeking help and understanding while simply furthering an agenda of intolerance, ignorance and hate through tribalism {us vs them or BS's vs WS's}. Attacking waywards and recovered betrayed spouse's isn't exactly "coping with infidelity" for you, is it? Does venting this hate, thread after thread, really help you "cope" with this subject? I feel that everyone, including you and adulterers, has the ability to change, grow, mature, learn, love, empathize, repent, forgive and become better persons that do better things. At least I HOPE so.



What if they stop the affair repent but don't want the marriage but want to be friends?

I am asking questions. Not casting anyone as irredeemable. I have compassion for the sinner but I am free to hold that for the most part R is a mistake. I have only ever said so. This has to do with actions not people. Being married to someone is a privilege.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> What if they stop the affair repent but don't want the marriage but want to be friends?


If they are truly repentant, divorce wouldn't be an option {for the wayward spouse}




sokillme said:


> I am asking questions. Not casting anyone as irredeemable. I have compassion for the sinner but I am free to hold that for the most part R is a mistake. I have only ever said so. This has to do with actions not people. Being married to someone is a privilege.


The betrayed spouse at least has options. Even after repentance, I was free to decide whether I wished to exercise my rights to forgive and reconcile or forgive and divorce. I choose reconciliation ~ thankfully. Although her affair remains, to this day, the worst thing that ever happened to me that is much more a testament to how fortunate I have otherwise been. I don't regret it. She still struggles with her stupid choices from time to time but I don't. 

Consider the Parable of the Lost Sheep? {visit Luke 15 in it's entirety}

“I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.” 
Luke 15:7 (NIV).


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

soccermom2three said:


> It is funny though, how she wants to be friends. She wants to text back and forth like they are buddies. She got mad when she wasn't invited to his Halloween party. One day she was picking up the kids from his house and she was saying how she had an awful day at work, then she just stood there like she wanted comforting hug. Later, she called him to tell him off because she really needed a hug. *He told her, "I'm not that person anymore."*


Whether the BS decides on R or D, I believe this to be true.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Quality said:


> If they are truly repentant, divorce wouldn't be an option {for the wayward spouse}
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Sheep didn't bite your heart out. Forgiveness doesn't mean go back to the way things were. Again I believe the WS when there is true shame and repentance deserves to have love again, I just think R is not a healthy relationship for the BS to be in. Both should start over. I would never suggest a physically abused spouse go back to her abuser no matter how much repentance there is. In a way your wife staying with you has probably impeded her moving forward even if you have. Also now you are stuck with a wife with whom your presence makes her feel guilt. Again not the healthiest of dynamics in a relationship. Once again because of the infidelity you lose again. I have said this over and over on here though, that was not the point.

My point with this is, I don't understand the mindset -

No you can't be my friend because of the abuses you heaped on me, but you CAN be my spouse. Makes no sense. To me the more logical response would be you can't be my friend and so much more NOT my SO. It seems delusional and more about staying married then being healthy.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

sokillme said:


> So I bet you think this post is about how stupid it is when WS say lets be friends after they cheat.
> 
> Nope, I am always struck by BS who what to R but when they WS says lets just be friends the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like that"?
> 
> ...


We're taught, particularly here in the west, that marriage is an institution entered into to celebrate, cherish, and hold inviolate the pure and unsullied love that two people share between each other. Moreover, we're taught, and then commit before God and/or the state (depending on your beliefs or lack of) to fidelity being the primary defining (though not the only) component of love in the context of that union. Our vows. 

Up until modern times, the fidelity clause was inviolate and there was good reason for this. Darwinian imperative. Or more simply put, time and the ever-present lack of it. Birth control and DNA testing weren't options, and no man wanted to unknowingly raise a child that wasn't his. It would effectively be theft of years of his precious life and the product of his labour. 

(Generally) with few options for women to support themselves outside of a monogamously committed mate, their offer to take years off of _their_ precious lives to produce and raise children for him was completely attendant on that mate's *undivided* consideration and support.

I've come to believe that in these times, marriage is in fact more accurately a contract entered into with a willing partner to tackle modern life, in all it's vast complexity. Together, as an exclusively bi-lateral partnership. While love and more specifically, attendant fidelity are agreed upon to be hugely important components of that agreement, they no longer have as critical an underpinning. We have birth control on demand and women (supposedly) have equal access to the employment market. 

So if one partner steps outside of the fidelity clause in the agreement but then makes all the right restitutional overtures, we now have much more latitude in deciding whether that's a deal breaker in light of any other benefits that may or may not exist in context of the contract as a whole.



Friendship is something else and has *one* very simple deal-breaking caveat . *A friend does not ever willingly and knowingly hurt a friend.* 

Though I suppose you could "forgive" them and call them a friend again afterword.

But then why would you?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I can put it like this. 

a spouse is just as much a business partner as a mate. if they are willing to do what I ask in order to reconcile, then I can see them coming on board with me as a business partner would. but, you don't go into business with someone so that you can have a friend. and you don't go into marriage with someone for a friend. I never wanted another friend to begin with, I have plenty. I can redirect a functioning unit so long as I have someone who is willing to follow, even if they have terrible character, but wasting my time with someone who I have nothing invested in does not appeal to me. I will only attempt to crush bad character if I have enough influence to do it. 

in our case, I had the influence and my wife didn't want a divorce. 

she changed. drastically. and it wasn't because she just woke up one day and decided that she must become a better person. I did a lot of things to crush that old sense of self of hers while building up the new. and the new is now killing off what was left of the old on her own. 

to be completely honest, I saw her infidelity as an opportunity to change. I changed and she changed.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There was never any pleads for friendship from my ex. On d-day I made it very clear that any friendship or good relations between us were gone forever. She understood that very clearly: from that moment on she was my enemy, and there would be no returning to what we had. It was a instantaneous and complete 180 from the regard that we once had for each other. She understood this clearly and never looked back when I showed her the door, and she has never been back or even intimated she wants to be friends in any form. And that is fine with me. 

So it is best to lay down the reality of the new relationship the day you announce you are splitting up for good, then follow up with the quickest divorce possible.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Quality said:


> It makes perfect sense to me ~~ when the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like THIS" in response to an active wayward's stated desire to divorce, continue their affair and "stay friends" with the BS, what I think BS's, like me, were referring to was the entirety of the betrayal as still occurring, continuing and as fully intended and conceived of by the unrepentant wayward spouse, including, the cheating {obviously}, the divorce, the taking + loss of 1/2 of my stuff, the loss of my time with the children, the loss of children's time with me, the forever negative influence and effects she would have blindly been upon our children, child support, alimony, ********* second+third+fourth husband's and the never ending consequences to everyone involved with the CONTINUANCE of the betrayal. Had my wife remained unrepentant she'd have remained and continued to be an abusive hurtful {and damaged} person I'd forever {or until repentance ~~ which becomes more and more unlikely as time goes by} be better off disassociated from, even if I chose to forgive her.
> 
> However, when they stop the affair, repent and commit to and undertake recovery, the multiplying of the betrayal and it's spiraling consequences stops. Difficult consequences remain. There's no mistaking or excusing that ~~ but, if done properly {and truly} they can and do turn from their sin and can become no longer "someone like that" and staying together can become the logical, healthy and heartfelt choice. People aren't disposable nor replaceable. There is only one "bride of my youth" and I {and many others in our life including our children and grandchildren} are so fortunate we have her back from the darkness.
> 
> We are all sinners to some degree or another. To cast irredeemable aspersions exclusively upon adulterers, thread after thread, is simply an indictment upon all humanity, if not, perhaps, a demonstration of someone lacking empathy themselves as you bully and condemn the supposed unredeemable in a social group environment that includes active and former adulterers as well as recovered|recovering betrayed spouses seeking help and understanding while simply furthering an agenda of intolerance, ignorance and hate through tribalism {us vs them or BS's vs WS's}. Attacking waywards and recovered betrayed spouse's isn't exactly "coping with infidelity" for you, is it? Does venting this hate, thread after thread, really help you "cope" with this subject? I feel that everyone, including you and adulterers, has the ability to change, grow, mature, learn, love, empathize, repent, forgive and become better persons that do better things. At least I HOPE so.


But why stay with a cheating spouse. 

One that has thrown away the commitment made. 

The one that has shown that they don't love the BS. 

The one that has belittled the BS to the AP. 

The one that put the health of the BS at risk. 

I can not see how a man or woman could stay. What lesson are you teaching your kids when they find out. That as long as they act sorry that they can get away with it. Or that they need to try and swallow the SS and grin as their doing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

sokillme said:


> So I bet you think this post is about how stupid it is when WS say lets be friends after they cheat.
> 
> Nope, I am always struck by BS who what to R but when they WS says lets just be friends the BS says "why would I want a friend who could betray me like that"?
> 
> ...


I'm often flabbergasted when a BS says choosing *not* to reconcile with a cheater is considered the 'easy way out.' 

But a lot of the time, they're also the same ones who want so _desperately_ to believe their cheating spouse did what they did for a whole host of ridiculous reasons - because they're 'broken' inside (good lord), they're some kind of porn or sex addict <insert eye roll here>, mommy and/or daddy 'neglected' them or abused them when they were little, they're a 'narcissist,' they're 'depressed,' their medication made them do it, they have ADD or ADHD, and the endless list of indulgent excuses their therapist pulled right out of his or her ass (for $200 wasted dollars per hour) just goes on and on. You're better off looking to a Crazy 8 ball for a more reliable answer than some quack.

Most BS's can never just accept the fact that their cheater did what they did because they *enjoyed it and wanted to do it and thought they'd get away with it*. And a lot of the time, that's the simple but HONEST answer.

If having pride, dignity and self respect by divorcing your cheater is considered the 'easy way out,' then so be it. It's _certainly_ preferable to a lifetime of monitoring your cheater's whereabouts, having to give them 'permission' to go everywhere, dictating who they're allowed to have as friends, 'triggering' every time you drive past yet another place your wonderful cheating spouse spent time with their affair partner, and needing years of quack therapy to try to feel better about yourself again because your cheater made you feel inferior. Yeah, THAT crap is so much more preferable - and your prize for all that effort is a cheater. Woo hoo!

Where can I sign up for a whole lot of that?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It's simple...

If a wayward can convince his STBXBS to "be friends", then it's easier for him to convince himself that what he did must not have been "all that bad". (Substitute her/herself as appropriate.)

IOW, it's not about remaining friendly, cordial, or whatever -- it's about maintaining one's image.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

_A husband and wife were having dinner at a very fine restaurant when
this absolutely stunning young woman comes over to their table, gives
the husband a big french kiss, then says she'll see him later and walks
away.

The wife glares at her husband and says, "Who the hell was that?"

"Oh," replies the husband, "she's my mistress."

"Well, that's the last straw," says the wife. "I've had enough. I want
a divorce!"

I can understand that," replies her husband, "but remember, if we get a
divorce it will mean no more shopping trips to Paris, no more wintering
in Barbados, no more summers in Tuscany, no more Infiniti or Lexus in
the garage and no more yacht club. But the decision is yours."

Just then, a mutual friend enters the restaurant with a gorgeous babe on
his arm.

"Who's that woman with Jim?" asks the wife.

"That's his mistress," says her husband.

"Ours is prettier," she replies._

From *Florida_rosbif* on his *Jokes Related to Marriage* thread over in the Social Spot.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Most BS's can never just accept the fact that their cheater did what they did because they *enjoyed it and wanted to do it and thought they'd get away with it*. And a lot of the time, that's the simple but HONEST answer.
> ?


Thank you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> just accept the fact that their cheater did what they did because they *enjoyed it and wanted to do it and thought they'd get away with it*. And a lot of the time, that's the simple but HONEST answer.


Let's also add that they did it the cowardly way by setting up nest elsewhere before being upfront that they wanted out. How can you trust someone that can't be honest when they are done, and mots of the time, don't confess until they get caught?

Why offer reconciliation to a WS that was caught instead of coming clean? What makes anyone think that a WS deserves that kind of gift; no wonder there is no respect left from the WS to the BS. The BS insists on fixing something they didn't break. It's very weak and doesn't work!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'm often flabbergasted when a BS says choosing *not* to reconcile with a cheater is considered the 'easy way out.'
> 
> But a lot of the time, they're also the same ones who want so _desperately_ to believe their cheating spouse did what they did for a whole host of ridiculous reasons - because they're 'broken' inside (good lord), they're some kind of porn or sex addict <insert eye roll here>, mommy and/or daddy 'neglected' them or abused them when they were little, they're a 'narcissist,' they're 'depressed,' their medication made them do it, they have ADD or ADHD, and the endless list of indulgent excuses their therapist pulled right out of his or her ass (for $200 wasted dollars per hour) just goes on and on. You're better off looking to a Crazy 8 ball for a more reliable answer than some quack.
> 
> ...


From reading on here and WS posts on other sites I just think WS don't think about love the way people who would never cheat do, for the most part. They don't have the same level of empathy and loyalty. They just don't, they are just kind of self centered shallow people. Their primary focus in all there interactions is themselves. Even when they try to R it's very rare where one of them gets it. That is why I think shame is needed because shame proves that they get it. Most don't really have true shame, they may have some guilt and some regret maybe even remorse, but shame is a whole other thing and to me is the only indication of the potential of change. I really think for most they just are not capable of that level of emotional intelligence and introspection. 

As for what is easier, who cares. I mean it's easier to buy a sheet of small tiles as apposed to put them on one by one individually. No one cares. I mean my God we are talking about the rest of your life, do what is the smart choice.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> *Most BS's* can never just accept the fact that their cheater did what they did because they *enjoyed it and wanted to do it and thought they'd get away with it*. And a lot of the time, that's the simple but HONEST answer.


Agreed.

To finally get to the point of *enjoyed it and wanted to do it and thought they'd get away with it*, it takes years of IC, MC, thousands of dollars of mumbo-jumbo sessions exploring the inner self of the cheater... then one day you wake up to the truth... it was never about you, your marriage, the issues.

Your WS wanted the excitement of the affair more than they valued you and the marriage.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

I read most of Flemming's original Bond books and despite being far from literary masterpieces that were mostly forgettable, there was one quote from his hero that stuck.

_"It's the pessimists that you have to worry about. Optimists get themselves killed."_

You have to be an optimist not so much as to think that you'll find something better, but rather as to believe that the same sh!t isn't gonna happen again. Considering the apparent prevalence of infidelity, maybe it really is something as simple as 'Better the devil you know...'

Again, do you really have to be friends in that context?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Satya said:


> I view my spouse in a whole other league than a friend. That's based on my interpretation of what "friend"symbolizes, encompasses, and means to me.
> 
> Some people call their spouse /partner "my best friend." Personally, this association makes me cringe. Constable Odo and I have never, ever referred to each other as friends. We both believe that what we have can't compare with a friendship because it's much deeper than our collective understanding of the word and it's an inadequate and inappropriate descriptor.
> 
> ...


Oh my.....so often I resonate with your posts Satya .... but on this.. WOW.. I feel so very differently ..... I have always felt my husband was my Best friend..I cared so much about this.. when looking for wedding invitations I wanted something that spoke of this friendship...

When our 2nd son's 1st love broke up with him. .. what she said a couple weeks before was.. she didn't feel they were best friends anymore.. ..it matters to some of us.. a great deal.. 

I wouldn't be able to be friends with someone who betrayed me though.. NEVER.. son's ex wanted to do this with him, spoke how he could contact her, they could talk about college, things like this.. . I told him HELL NO !! and went into great detail how that will never work and why should she be so privileged -to have the comfort of him hanging on -being there for her.. I was fuming with the thought.. . it would KILL HIM.. He knew it.... so he went dark.. stayed dark.. and moved on..as it should be.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Usually, people who say after a break up ''let's be friends'' are just wanting to keep you around in the event they're bored, and wish to pull you off of the shelf. I purposely have never said after a break up, because I never wanted to lead someone on to think that the door might be open again down the road. That's just me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't think there is anything wrong with staying friends if there was no betrayal, if a person just brakes up because they are not feeling it anymore I think that is a honorable thing to do and once the brakee has recovered friendship seems possible. The friendship needs to be that though, just a friendship. It seem some people can't just keep it like that and ex's seem to be a go to person to cheat with, but that is like not driving because some people drive drunk.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Yea, that is true, but with ''bad'' break ups, my opinion is it's best to go NC for if someone treated you badly during the relationship, doubtful they'd make a good friend.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The "Let's Be Friends" nonsense given the Supremes/Motown treatment. 



 @sokillme I hear this last night and I thought of your thread and the words of this song really speak to those of us who got this nonsense.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, that is true, but with ''bad'' break ups, my opinion is it's best to go NC for if someone treated you badly during the relationship, doubtful they'd make a good friend.


Or run off to marry a millionaire property developer, who turned out to be a jailbird con artist! Oops!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Simply put, a spouse is deemed to be a "super-friend," so to speak! They are not only meant to be your most trusted friends and allies, they hold in your deepest thoughts and well-kept secrets that no one in this world should have the slightest scintilla of knowledge about, and vice-versa! They service your physical, emotional, ecclesiastical, and psychological needs! They either bear or assist in the bearing of children ~ all of these done under the mantra of holy vows uttered before not only each other, but all of society to help further insulate that Holy bond!

Any willful or unwillful breach of that covenant inarguably weakens or even decimates that bond ~ greatly to the point that the trust factor in the relationship is effectively compromised to the point that it is no longer existent, or was never there in the first place!

The human psyche is primarily fostered by "trust myself first, then others second!" When placing heartfelt trust in someone, who has violated the same, you are often relegated right back to "square one," often feeling worse than ever before, all with an irreparably, jaded loss in trust of your fellow man!*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> The "Let's Be Friends" nonsense given the Supremes/Motown treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RabQLuj4N8
> @sokillme I hear this last night and I thought of your thread and the words of this song really speak to those of us who got this nonsense.


Only one holding you is you. Chinese finger trap.


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