# Suddenly concerned about not knowing more about my fiancée's past relationships



## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

I know this comes up a lot, but I feel tormented with my racing thoughts and greatly appreciate any feedback since I'm really struggling with this. I thank you in advance.

Here's the background. I'm a 30 year old male and have been dating my fiancée for almost 3 years and we've been living together for over a year. Things are great. We love and trust each other. Even though we're both strong people, we never fight since we're generally patient and easy to get along with. (Neither of us have ever been married or even lived with another person before now.) The sex for both of us is satisfying. We are looking forward to getting married in 5 months and are making all the preparations. Like almost all married people I've talked to, I have recently experienced some pre-marriage jitters (about a variety of topics). I'm a careful, deliberate person and I suddenly became a little insecure, worried and nervous about all the uncertainties and "what ifs" that a married life entails. I've come to realize that they were not "doubts", but rather normal feelings of nervousness. I'm lucky to have this woman and I want to live up to her expectations of being a great husband and father some day. And I think I will. I'm attractive, fit, well-educated and successful and I really do love her. And while I can never know what the future will hold, I have to rely on the love and trust we have for each other to get through the things that may come.

Among all the jitters and thoughts I experienced, I suddenly began to be uncomfortable with some of her past relationships and sexual experiences. This was never a problem before since she told me that she had a sexual past and I was fine with it. To say it more accurately, it's not that I was uncomfortable with the fact that she's had been with other guys, but I was suddenly uncomfortable with the fact that I didn't KNOW what those experiences were. Aren't we supposed to be able to share everything? (I realized that I knew more about the sexual histories of my previous girlfriends than I did about my future wife.) I know she's more sexually experienced than me and I don't mind that. As background, she's a few years younger and had freely told me that she was promiscuous for awhile when she was younger and had made some bad decisions. (I'm no saint either, but I've only had three sexual partners myself.) She told me that she had anal sex once and had dated older men. (One of those men was a former boss, who she had a sexual relationship when she was a college intern and he was 15 years older.) All of those facts I was fine with, but not knowing the context, reasons and details made me a little crazy and I was jumping to wrongful conclusions. I'm not saying I need to know ALL the details of the sex and number of partners, but I'd like to understand better about some of the relationships and circumstances.

For example, when we started talking more about this recently - I told her that I was experience pre-marriage jitters but that everything was fine - I told her that I had originally assumed she was into experimentation in the past and had guessed that she had been maybe 35 partners and if all that were true, which I thought it was, all of that would have been fine with me. (I told her that the truth didn't bother me, it's was the wondering and guessing about what had happened that was an issue for me.) But it turns out my assumptions were wrong and the real story was actually different than I had thought. She told me that she had actually been "talked into" anal sex in college with a frat boy and that it was never her idea. That was totally different from what I had assumed and was certainly glad she told me this.) I feel part of those experiences and feel less threatened by them in knowing them. 

I also recently learned that when she had moved to Toronto after college, she initially struggled to get her feet on the ground. Being extremely attractive, a lot of guys took interest in her and she went to the clubs and never had to wait on a line. Trainers at the gym would offer to train her for free. She told me that she was a little insecure being new in the city and that she found some validation and confidence in herself by going to clubs and having sex. So even though I had assumed she was just horny before (which again, would have been okay), the reasoning was a lot more nuanced than that and now I feel like I know so much more! I honestly feel better knowing these things. The guessing and the wondering was driving me crazy. I'm not jealous of these previous guys. After all, why should I be? She chose me to marry! And she's said that's she done more sexual experimentation in my bedroom than with anyone else so why should I be jealous?

But there's still a lot more that I want to know and I'm sure that not all of the relevations will be good ones. But at least I'll know them and can deal with them. I can't deal with the unknown and my wandering mind which drives me crazy sometimes. While she's been very honest with me, she has also said that she didn't want get too deep into the details, since she was afraid that I'd somehow think less of her. I love her too much to think less of her. Now, I know some would say that none of her past should matter if we love each other, so why should she tell me all these things that make her so uncomfortable to talk about? I know that some would also say that I'm just being insecure about myself. But I also don't agree that none of the past matters. First, those things are still a part of who we are and they help form us into who we are today. And second, someday we'll have to be parents ourselves and we will guide our children based on our own shared experiences. How can we do that together if we don't know about each other's past? She was in some not-so-good relationships and we should learn from those experiences. 

I love this woman and want to know everything about her, even if some of the details are a little unsavory. (I'm interested to know about some of those past relationships, what the sex was like and how she felt about those relationships.) Talking about this is uncomfortable for her and it really me feel guilty that I'm causing her to feel that way. (I cried the other day because I felt terrible that I was making her uncomfortable, even though that was never my intent.) But knowing more of the truth has definitely made me feel better and it gives me a fuller understanding of her (both the good and the not-so-good). Perhaps, I feel that I even love her more in learning about the context and details of these prior experiences. Even if some of the details are nasty, I should at least feel good that she trusts me to share them. I just have to be sure to convince her that I won't think anything less of her. 

So as painful as it is for me to ask and as uncomfortable as it is for her to recall these things, I think we need to hash it out. Do you think I'm being unreasonable in wanting to know, even though it's uncomfortable for both of us? Is it okay for me to want to know these things? (Gosh, it really messes with my head not knowing the details. I feel that once I know everything that's happened, I can more easily digest it an put this behind me. But not knowing, my mind makes things up and that's harder to deal with.) Does she have a good reason not to tell me all these things? And if so, does that mean she doesn't trust me? Please tell me if I'm thinking about any of this the wrong way. Please also try to put yourself in my shoes as a guy who can't relate to all her sexual experiences since I didn't happen to go down that road myself. She's admitted she's made mistakes and I think sharing the experiences will help us be better parents some day. I know she loves me and has since said that she'd answer any of my questions about this stuff although she's not certain I'll be satisfied. Of course, I'd rather not pursue this with her if I didn't feel absolutely tormented by not knowing more about what she was going through and experienced.

- Tormented


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Sorry, if you don't mind, I'm more interested in hearing female opinions. But I also ask that you try to see it from my perspective. I think it's easy to say that "it's none of your business" but I feel differently about that. And remember, that I love this woman and don't want to do anything to hurt her. I just want to be the person that knows her better than anyone else in this world and I hope she'll say the same for me.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I'm not a female
Knowing about your wife's past will just feed your insecurity. It will torture you for 5,10,20 years. Judge your wife for who she is, the quality of her as a person, her moral values etc... And then once she "picks" you and you "pick" her, declare yourself the winner, and thus superior, to all the men that came before.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Also not a guy here... All I can say is that if you're going to ask questions, make sure you can handle whatever answer comes back.

C


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Another guy here.

She didn't argue with the 35 sexual partners part, so there's surely more. If you can handle the number, I don't see what else you could have a problem with. Or maybe you DO have a problem with the number, but are telling yourself it is the details that matter? What could she possible say that wil make you feel better? 

Hate to say it man, but I don't know if you'll ever feel right with this. I couldn't. I mean, it's wonderful that she could feel good enough about your relationship to tell you anyhting, but...

Am I just a prude? Is 50 partners for a woman pushing some kind of envelope? If she's your age, she had all of this casual sex before age 27. Some implications of sex for services in there as well.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm female and this is a public forum and I can answer any post that I care to. Don't read if you don't want to. I think you want to hear from men to confirm the double standard of other insecure men. 

I'd rather put myself in her place. If she wrote in I'd tell her to consider calling off the wedding, it would be the best thing she could do. Maybe she will be smart if you keep bringing this up to do so. This is a big red flag indicating a deeply insecure man and it will not get better. She will be hounded by you throughout the entire marriage. 

She should find a man who is glad she picked him to marry and does not have a double standard with regards to a woman's sexuality. It is bound to come out in other ways when she is married and it will be miserable for her. If she is attractive that should be very easy for her to do. 

Some of her experiences were not good because she ran into to predatory men and made bad decisions. You should lament that there are men of that sort in the world not hound a woman you say you love. 

If you loved her enough you would not want to bring them up, especially when she has already told you she does not want to go into detail. 

A secure mature man capable of loving a woman would be far more suitable for her. Such a man would reassure her that he loved her and keep letting her know that she is loved and valued. He would be glad found each other and would do anything not to bring her more pain. 

Instead, you selfishly pick at her wounds under the guise of values about children. It is a little late in the relationship to talk about shared values and raising children, don't you think. That is one of the first things you should have determined when you were considering a serious relationship. 

This has nothing to do with children so stop dressing it up that way. You talk about intimacy that starts with be authentic and truthful not deceitful. If her past bothers you don't lie about it and don't marry her. Lies are not compatible with intimacy. 

She will feel the disconnect and no doubt move on when she finds someone who can give her the emotional support she needs. This has to do with you and your inability to have compassion and empathy for her. 

I hope you decide not to marry her, that would be kindest to her. She would be lucky to get rid of an apparently self-centered, insecure man in exchange for a mature, good man. 

Do yourself a favor find a virgin and have done with it. If you have any ounce of compassion call it up now and let her go to be happy with someone more suited to her. You have played a cruel bait and switch on her.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

MrK said:


> Am I just a prude? Is 50 partners for a woman pushing some kind of envelope?


So 50 partners for a guy would be acceptable? There shouldn't be a double standard. If it is fine for one, it should be fine for another.

Woman here. She had sex with many, many people and wanted you and only you. That tells you something. 
From this post and your other, you sound insecure and a tad like you are trying to change her or rather "shame" her. That will not end up well for you.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> She would be lucky to get rid of an apparently self-centered, insecure man in exchange for a mature, good man.


Bit harsh, no? It's got nothing to do with maturity. It has to do with shared values. There's a disconnect in that department and its effecting him.

And get off of this "double standards" crap. I never said it was OK for a man to have 50 sex partners. I never said it was bad. 3 vs. 50 is a disconnect. My wife wouldn't have married me if I were a *****. I wouldn't have met her if I was a *****. We wouldn't have married. The disconnect would have been too great for both of us.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I love my Wife. Totally and completely love her. 

Her prior experiences are a big part of what made her the woman she is today. Some were sexual - some were not. They are all incorporated in who she is today. 

Only thing that matters is she loves me and treats me well. Thats it. Everything else is not relevant unless SHE wants to talk about it. 





Catherine602 said:


> I'm female and this is a public forum and I can answer any post that I care to. Don't read if you don't want to. I think you want to hear from men to confirm the double standard of other insecure men.
> 
> I'd rather put myself in her place. If she wrote in I'd tell her to consider calling off the wedding, it would be the best thing she could do. Maybe she will be smart if you keep bringing this up to do so. This is a big red flag indicating a deeply insecure man and it will not get better. She will be hounded by you throughout the entire marriage.
> 
> ...


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Catherine,
I 100% agree. It is also outrageous to suggest that you are unable to guide your children towards the future unless you know the intimate details of your spouses past, a past that appears to be painful for her. What's next? You need to know the sexual history of all the primary school teachers your children come in contact with? They most certainly guide your children.
You want to know the details for no other reason than to soothe your ego and it will come at the expense of "$lut shaming" your fiance.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

As a woman, I have always felt VERY uncomfortable being asked by the person I'm dating (or engaged to) to divulge my dating and/or sexual past.
In a word, it feels very invasive. 
AND, in both scenarios where this happened--once with an ex, once with my current husband--the other thing I was uncomfortable with was that these interviews were conducted in order to make HIM feel ok.
That's not my job. That's his job--YOUR job.
Something about it feels icky.

Not only that...I felt like I was being asked to account for myself, answer to my current bf/fiancée, to get his approval or something.
You may not feel that you're trying to grant approval, but your fiancée may feel this way.
She wants to feel like it "doesn't matter." 
Bringing it up implies that there are conditions on your love for her---like something she's done/admits actually matters enough that it makes a difference.
Does it make a difference? What difference does it make?

I remember before we got married, my H made a huge deal about wanting to know about every single guy I'd ever dated, so he wouldn't be "taken by surprise" someday when he met one of these guys and "didn't see it coming."
well, excuse me, but my past is mine, and it does not exist to pose a threat to YOU at any stage of your life.

I don't get this "need to know" what your girl has done that some guys have.
Does knowing what's already happened give you any more control over what IS happening?

Being interrogated simply doesn't foster trust or openness.

Your "need to know" is an issue of your insecurity--which is understandable and no crime.
BUT you could really do yourself a disservice if you give it the wheel and let yourself become controlling out of your anxiety.
You could alienate your fiancée.

I recommend you find some ways to deal with this anxiety and insecurity on your own, without bringing them to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

One more thing:

I don't judge you for wanting to share these experiences in discussion with your fiancee.

It's HOW those conversations happen that matters.
Let it happen organically and naturally, as you grow closer to each other, not as an item on your pre-wedding checklist.

It's not on your list of "pre-wedding must-figure-outs"
figure those out first, not this.
Have you figured those out? 

Are they about what she's done, or who she is?

Then love her, marry her, and this kind of opening up will follow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

hollander77 said:


> I just want to be the person that knows her better than anyone else in this world.


Get to the bottom of why you so urgently want this.

What power does "knowing" have for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Ladies (Catherine, Brennan, Credam), thank you for your input. I needed to hear that I'm shaming my fiancee due to my own insecurities and lack of similar sexual experiences. (I think you're right.) Perhaps I wish I had sown more of my own wild oats before meeting her. Then maybe I'd react more reasonably. It's not the number of people she's slept with. It's not that she had anal sex. I understand and can accept that she had sex because she found validation in herself and she's a different woman now. I was only really disappointed in the case where she showed poor judgement in having a sexual relationship with her much older boss during her summer internship in college. (At first, it made me feel better to think that he took advantage of her, but then again, she was an adult and made her own choice.) I don't want her to apologize, but I hope deep down she realizes it was probably a mistake. Certainly, I've made plenty of mistakes myself. It kills me that I'm not supposed to know these things about her past. I had just assumed there would be nothing that we couldn't share or talk about. But I can put my ego aside in this case - she's too precious and I care about her too much.

Thanks again.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hollander,
If she regrets or has misgivings about her past, being badgered to spill it will cause her pain in the beginning, then resentment and later loathing.....at you.
My husband had 1 partner before me. He was man enough to understand my past wasn't as Leave it to Beaver as his was. I told him all about my past. Why? Because I trusted him and knew that he wasn't going to shame me or toss it in my face. Had I not trusted him in that aspect, I would go to my grave with my past.
Right now she doesn't want to discuss her past. She also won't because she knows what your reaction will be. You get upset if she uses sexual slang words because you imagine somebody doing that to her. How on Earth if that is your reaction to THAT going to make her feel secure in telling you the details?


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

She's told me that she trusts me enough to answer any of my questions knowing that I won't judge her, but I fear making the next step (the asking), which is why I've reached out here. (I agree that my reaction to her sexual slang is a tip off that I really may not be ready to handle her stories without bias, which didn't occur to me before.) I suppose that I'm a little sad, not that she had prior experiences - I've generally been okay with that - I'm sad to understand that there are things from the past that we shouldn't (or won't) talk about. Perhaps I had a naive vision of our marriage, but I didn't think there would ever be topics that we wouldn't be able to discuss freely, but perhaps this is one one that's best for us to leave alone.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Here's what I want to tell her: If and when you feel a need or willingness to share those past experiences some day, I want you to feel that you can do so with impunity and the knowledge that I'll never judge you. Really, I want to be the husband and wife that can share everything -- past, present and future and that there's nothing we can't talk about. You'd certainly agree with this and while you're willing to answer anything that I'd ask, I know you feel uncomfortable that I'd somehow think differently of you. I agree that the time might not be now and that's fine by me. I realize that some of the normal pre-marriage jitters affected me. While none of those jitters had to with your past sexual experiences initially, I think the jitters (about the future, kids, challenges, etc.) made me just insecure enough (even temporarily) to begin to worry about your past experiences with men, when I should have known that it doesn't impact me at all and none of it reflects how you love me today. Of course, I've known this during the three years of our relationship and I'm sorry that I forgot that recently.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Don't ask, don't tell. Subscribe to that same policy, if it was before you and she's not cheating let it go and enjoy the ride.

Trust me, you don't want to know, was there someone bigger, longer and lasted longer than you. That alone will bruise your ego. Then you'll always wonder was I good enough, did she really enjoy it, was she faking it....

Unless you're a pervert like me who gets turned on about his wife's past sexual encounters (lol, I'm just kidding, I hope).


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

It's funny you say that. I totally trust her and she'd never cheat on me and she totally trusts me in the same way. But because I never had some of those "wilder" experiences, I sort of get turned on by hearing some of her experiences and get to live vicariously through her in hearing those stories. If that was the only reason (and I was 100% not jealous in the slightest), I probably wouldn't hesitate to ask, assuming of course that she was comfortable talking. But clearly, I have some other issues of insecurity and she's not entirely comfortable, so I can't be an idiot about asking since I might cause problems for both of us.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

_>>Really, I want to be the husband and wife that can share everything -- past, present and future and that there's nothing we can't talk about. You'd certainly agree with this and while you're willing to answer anything that I'd ask, I know you feel uncomfortable that I'd somehow think differently of you<<_

I think this is the point where the iceberg warnings were issued to passengers of the Titanic.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hollander,
I understand that you want everything to be shared. I get that. I felt the same way and when I felt comfortable, I opened up about my past. I can tell you from my own situation, I did feel ashamed about my past. I certainly didn't want the person I loved to make me feel more ashamed and that was my fear. Society is very hard on women who have a past and I am not even talking big numbers either. Women have been conditioned to minimize their past in an effort to avoid the problems you are reconciling with now. The problem with this track is that once you ask, the bell has been rung. I agree with CheatingHubby, it will then make your mind reel with was he better, bigger, etc. Those thoughts might even creep in to your bedroom and can/might do some serious damage to you and your relationship. I am not saying it will but it already sounds to me like you are insecure so what good would knowing every intimate act and with whom she has even done them with be to you? 
When I felt comfortable enough to tell my boyfriend/now husband I did. I also made sure that he was comfortable enough to listen. He was. He was a great man about that. He also understood the frame of mind I was in at 18/19 and that I had a troubled childhood which led to poor decisions and that this behavior wasn't about HIM, it was about me. 
As for similar values/goals, her past doesn't dictate that. When I was 19 my goal was to party with bad people and his was to go to a top notch university. My goals obviously changed as I have been married with children now for almost 18 years, I work full time, we own our own home, etc. I am responsible. Our values and goals are identical. 
The difference here is that I voluntarily shared. He didn't have to ask. She isn't volunteering so I would strongly caution you against asking. When she is ready, she will tell you. She already knows that you want to know.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Brennan, I see your point. (You're giving me a good kick in the pants and I like it.) I need to find a way to set my mind straight. This was never an issue for me until some pre-marriage jitters (not doubts) rattled me and I suddenly questioned everything. (I'm a careful, planning person and marriage is a large leap of faith.) For a successful, educated person, I suddenly became terribly insecure and I think I focused on the sex since I can't easily relate to what she experienced. I know I need to stand down here. I will not be asking her for her darkest secrets, as you said -- she can tell me if and when she wants to. 

My biggest fear is that I've already rocked the boat about making her know that I've struggled with this for the past week. I have felt guilty about upsetting her and I'll tell her that. Of course, I have to really mean it when I say it, but I need to convey to her that I can and will get over these emotions. Of course, I want to say it the right way... If you think I need to convey something in particular I'm all ears. I realize that all this is too little of an issue to screw up the greater thing we have as a couple.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MrK said:


> It has to do with shared values. There's a disconnect in that department and its effecting him.


I'm getting the same impression.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MrK said:


> Bit harsh, no? It's got nothing to do with maturity. It has to do with shared values. There's a disconnect in that department and its effecting him.
> 
> And get off of this "double standards" crap. I never said it was OK for a man to have 50 sex partners. I never said it was bad. 3 vs. 50 is a disconnect. My wife wouldn't have married me if I were a *****. I wouldn't have met her if I was a *****. We wouldn't have married. The disconnect would have been too great for both of us.


I don't know why you assumed I was responding to something you said, I breezed right though your post, there was nothing memorable nor profound. No reason to think everything is in reference to you. I don't care if you said what you say you did not say. 

Of course it is harsh. Any person with more compassion than so called values would be harsh. What he is putting this young woman through for absolutely, nothing but his childish insecurity is more than harsh it is cruel and inhuman. 

Who cares what the reason is, he should let her go. 

Good for you and your and your wife and your shared values. I happy you found each other. I hope you are happy with each other in your sexual purity. 

This man did not find the one for him so he could revel in purity. He should let her go and find someone like your good wife.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't know why you assumed I was responding to something you said, I breezed right though your post, there was nothing memorable nor profound. No reason to think everything is in reference to you. I don't care if you said what you say you did not say.
> 
> Of course it is harsh. Any person with more compassion than so called values would be harsh. What he is putting this young woman through for absolutely, nothing but his childish insecurity is more than harsh it is cruel and inhuman.
> 
> ...


Yikes. I know this wasn't directed at me, but...why so angry?

I think the point was being made that the OP's concern may be related to whether they are well-matched--not in terms of experience, but in terms of what they "would" and "wouldn't" do. I can see that being a viable concern, and I can understand .

Insecurities notwithstanding. It's just another perspective on the OP's question.

He clearly has compassion. And insecurities. And values.
It's possible to have all three at once.

Probably more helpful to the OP to focus on his concerns than get distracted by defensiveness and anger at fellow responders.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

hollander77 said:


> Ladies (Catherine, Brennan, Credam), thank you for your input. I needed to hear that I'm shaming my fiancee due to my own insecurities and lack of similar sexual experiences. (I think you're right.) Perhaps I wish I had sown more of my own wild oats before meeting her. Then maybe I'd react more reasonably. It's not the number of people she's slept with. It's not that she had anal sex. I understand and can accept that she had sex because she found validation in herself and she's a different woman now. I was only really disappointed in the case where she showed poor judgement in having a sexual relationship with her much older boss during her summer internship in college. (At first, it made me feel better to think that he took advantage of her, but then again, she was an adult and made her own choice.) I don't want her to apologize, but I hope deep down she realizes it was probably a mistake. Certainly, I've made plenty of mistakes myself. It kills me that I'm not supposed to know these things about her past. I had just assumed there would be nothing that we couldn't share or talk about. But I can put my ego aside in this case - she's too precious and I care about her too much.
> 
> Thanks again.


Please don't marrry her these thoughts will never go away. Why put her and you in that position? 

You know that you should not go forward please show some empathy let her go and she will find someone who loves and cherishes her, you are unable to do that. You don't love who she is your love is weak. 

Have you done things that were not right? You said you were no angel in what way? Were you a perfect teen, no sins in your past? Treated anyone badly? Enjoy porn? 

If she drank and drove 50 times or robbed clothing from department stores or snatched purses from old ladies when she was young and now matured and regretted what she did, would you be so censorious. 

It the sex angle, and control of female sexuality. She has control of her body, it does not belong to you just because she is a woman. If she made a mistake and regrets something she did then I hope she finds comfort. 

In a year or two you will be in a relationship with a virgin with no need to lecture or judge and she will be in a loving relationship with a man and be free of a parent and judge.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks, Credam. 



credamdóchasgra said:


> One more thing:
> 
> I don't judge you for wanting to share these experiences in discussion with your fiancee.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

hollander77 said:


> It's funny you say that. I totally trust her and she'd never cheat on me and she totally trusts me in the same way. But because I never had some of those "wilder" experiences, I sort of get turned on by hearing some of her experiences and get to live vicariously through her in hearing those stories. If that was the only reason (and I was 100% not jealous in the slightest), I probably wouldn't hesitate to ask, assuming of course that she was comfortable talking. But clearly, I have some other issues of insecurity and she's not entirely comfortable, so I can't be an idiot about asking since I might cause problems for both of us.


This is no good. You want her to share stories that she would rather forget so you get a sexual charge out of it?

I didn't have much experience when I got married but If I did, I would not share the details with my husband if he was insecure and upset about them.

I can guarantee that you will react eventually down the road once you have gotten your sexual charge. You may regard her with contempt eventually. Please show some restraint and control of your self. Can you take pleasure while she is uncomfortable? 

Another poster asked why I am angry - because I am sick of woman being shamed for having sex. If these men want pure women, why do they pick women with experience and when they get married torment them? There are plenty of virgins in churches and temples. 

There are several post on the forum with the same depressingly miserable topic. These are men who have been married for years with wives with exemplary behavior. They suddenly begin to plaque her with questions and concerns and judgements. It is time someone tried to prevent this before it happens.

I identify with the women trapped daily with these men. I could not imagine coming to my home that I regard as a safe harbor to be faced with a judge inquisitor. It must be horrible. And when a man wants to hear something for his sexual pleasure he can be relentless. 

OP - read some of the post from other men who have this problem, it comes up after many years of marriage after the initial problem dies down. They are miserable and they make the woman miserable it is so useless. This is what you and she may face. It is simple and kind to let her go.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I agree that it's a bit disturbing that you find your fiancee's sexual experiences titillating.

You're courageous for admitting it, but I think it doesn't sound entirely healthy, and makes me wonder if you're ready to get married.
I say that with empathy and lack of judgment. 
It's not easy to admit your own weaknesses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Whether you realize it or not, you are attaching greater meaning to her sexual past than to ALL the rest of her past by asking about it so intensively. We are the sum of our experiences and what we have learned from our experiences. I was single for a long time and have no qualms about my sexual past--in fact, nothing about it really sticks out the same way other, more profound and formative experiences do. 

There is a reason you are obsessed with this and I urge you to figure it out before exchanging vows. We have men on this forum who are married to women and obessing about the past to the point of destroying the relationship. Don't let that be you.

You cannot know "everything" about a person, ever. Let go of that fantasy. It is very different from being able to share anything with your partner--that is, to know your partner won't judge you. You are not setting a good precedent for this; she has to be wondering what the hell is up that you are suddenly worrying about this.

When we are under stress (like, making a lifetime commitment), a tendency toward OCD may reveal itself. Maybe you need to explore that possibility. I'm not joking and not trying to be insulting--I know what I'm talking about from personal experience. You have a clue here that you may have some tendencies that had previously been "unactivated," so to speak. Pay attention.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Catherine. You need to settle down. This guy's in a crisis in his relationship and you are blaming the sins of the entire patriarchy on him and him alone. Nobody said she's bad. Nobody said he's bad (except you). And for the record, there were 2 posts in a row accusing society of double standards, so it's really not always about YOU, I guess.

You have something valuable to say. Just tone down the anger, put it in 50 words or less and move on to someone else's problem.

OP. I fear this is something you won't be able to get over. Not without help anyhow. I'm sure the girls are right. She invested 3 years in you thinking this wasn't an issue. It now is and it will change things. You may need to end it with her. Or maybe just put off the wedding. But for GODS SAKE MAN, no children until it is 100% not an issue any more. (OK, maybe 95%, but make it go away first). Marriges are easily un-doable. Families are not.


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## TheFamilyMan (May 4, 2011)

In my opinion, you have two options. 1 would be to discuss everything in detail in a leisurely comfortable manner, where you CAN NOT in any way show that what she tells you affects you (because that will show insecurity, and that's the last thing a woman wants to see), or the second choice would be to simply feel comfortable enough with yourself, because how would her "sexual" past affect you now unless you truly are insecure with yourself?


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## being the best me (Apr 25, 2011)

The both of you need to be honest about your past. Before you marrie, this is the time to lay all the cards on the table so there are no surpises later in life. If you go into this marriage not knowing who your partener is, it will only cause problems down the road.

Then you need to decide if you can handle the information that is in front of you, accept the fact that she is chosing you and move on.

Truth on both sides is the only thing that will let you live your lives together growing as one unit.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Catherine, you're definitely turning my world upside down and I feel terrible in so many ways. Maybe that's your intent. I can't blame you for saying what you feel is right. Even if the very thought of calling off the wedding is the absolute last thing I want to hear, I still have to thank you for your input. But that's not the way I feel it should go.

I feel far too strongly about loving this woman to let this get in the way. I realize that it's my issue to overcome. If I didn't say it before, her sexual past was not the source of my initial pre-marriage jitters. (I had initially worried about my success as a father, how we'd fare as parents, how we'd deal with challenges, etc.). And I think that brief bought of insecurity about the future also made me think about the past sexual stuff, partly because I couldn't relate as much, not having had similar experiences. But I totally get that it could have easily been the other way around. It's not like I wasn't looking for promiscuous sex in college - I was! Perhaps I just wasn't very good at getting it! I'm not trying to hold her to some ridiculous standard. I grew up Catholic, but I'm not even religious anymore. In fact, my fiancee is probably more open to religion than I am. She's not a strong believer either, but she does at least want religion to be an option for our children, if they want it some day.

"Being the Best", I too originally thought that laying out all the cards would enable me to get over these emotions. I had thought it wasn't the facts that would cause me concern, but I thought it was the "not knowing" them or the mystery part of it that got to me. But like "MrK" mentions, I'm very concerned that she'll think about us differently (if she doesn't already!) if I ask that we should discuss everything. I honestly feel more comfortable putting this to rest by not knowing. Catherine may not feel that I'm capable of that, but I have to believe myself when I think that all the great things about our relationship and our love for each other can squash this issue for me.

She knows that I've had some jitters. I wanted to be honest with her about everything, I told her as much. She knows that I had also thought about her sexual past and she said that she'd trust me to answer any questions that I'd want to ask. But I don't need to go there. If she's willing to trust and love me to share those stories, I can be trusting and loving enough to realize that they don't matter. That's what we talked about last night. (I also apologized to her for me being an idiot, although she said I wasn't being one. She's wonderful to me.) The sex we have is important. The sex we've had with people in the past isn't. Of course, I don't want to be lying to myself or her when I say this, but as I said, with great reflection, I'm realizing why this should never have been an issue for me. 

BTW, can someone tell me that pre-marriage jitters (of any kind) are not atypical? I'm not the only reasonable husband-to-be that had a bought of insecurity right? Prince William admitted as much!


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

And if pre-marriage jitters are normal, what have others experienced? (I'm sure everyone is effected differently.) How did you resolve them and did you share them with your future spouse at the time? Just hoping I'm not alone here...


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## jen12 (Jul 7, 2011)

Hollander77- I can relate to your situation. It’s true that her past shouldn’t be your concern at this point of your relationship but it’s easier said than done.* 

*

It’s like we know it’s wrong that we are not supposed to impose our values or morales or dwell on the past, but it feels as if we are too week to overcome our judgemental side. May be it’s our values, may be it’s our selfishness/selfrighteousness or may be it’s just plain jealousy/insecurity, the truth of the matter is, it always feel like all negative emotions overwhelming our mind making us feel like a bad person.

*

At this point I want to try to suggest you the following.

*

Knowing more details willnot help. It will just add more graphic to your existing negative thoughts. But you know it best yourself; if you think you can handle it, please go ahead.
If you can ignore it or at least can control not to bring up the issue, then you should go ahead with your wedding. If you have been struggling already for years with this, from experience, I can tell you that marriage will not help ease this issue. It will just make you both feel more stuck in the situation. Having a kid without feeling 100% comfortable just like someone else in this forum suggested, that can be even worse. It’s not fair for her, not fair for you.
Counselling may help. But it’s important that your love for her isn’t just physical and emotional attachment, it needs to have both respect and trust. If you believe that your respect and trust is not strong enough for her, I would be leery to continue with the wedding. It’s not her fault that your standard or values don’t match hers. But if we tell you to just snap out of it, I don’t think it will be that easy for you.
*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the thoughts - I really appreciate it. Wedding is now two months away and I still can't sleep very well. I told her about my insecurities about the past and she was generally very open about it. Voicing my concerns about this and other things that make me nervous about getting married are taking a toll on the both of us and it's just been hard.

I've never felt insecure like this before, but her number and variety of partners make me uncomfortable. She admitted that she doesn't like talking about the past since she says it was a time of low-self confidence for her and she was new to NYC where she got introduced to the clubbing scene. (She found it difficult being in NYC at first and had trouble making friends, getting a job.) She tearfully admitted that she didn't respect herself back then and probably "used them" to fill a void in her life.

She's been totally honest and has told me everything that I asked. She says she is beginning to see where I'm coming from - I had only 2 partners before her while she's had 16. I know I shouldn't care, especially since I am somewhat jealous that I didn't get to be a little more sexually reckless when younger, so I realize it's hypocritical to blame her for that. But I can't help but wonder if her past will impact us down the road, either sexually or emotionally.

For the reason she was promiscuous, I'm glad she didn't tell me that she had been really horny or wanting to thrill-seek in the past, because then I'd worry if she was really ready to settle down. Hearing that she slept around because it gave her self-confidence and self-validation, for me, is an answer that I can be sympathetic with. 

But I'm concerned that we have very different views about sex and love. She says she sometimes confused the two in the past. But I'm wondering if she also had sex just for the physical pleasure of it. Even if she confused sex and love, I would have thought that she would learn a lesson or two before getting to 16 partners. (Average for Us women is 4 and I've heard that NYC avg is about 8.) I don't know if it's true, but pyschologists talk about how sex is an emotional bonding experience, but people that have been promiscous in the past, may experience less bonding behavior as a result of sex, perhaps since they have become inured to the experience. Looking at my relationship, sex seems more important to me than to her. (Though maybe all guys could say that.) I tend to initiate sex and I'm jealous that she's tried some things in the past that she hasn't done with me (anal, sexting, etc.) 

The statistics are also not encouraging - I read another study that marriage stability is inversely corelated with the number of pre-marital parnters that a woman or man has. 80% of women that had 0 pre-marital partners were still in a stable (non-divorced) marriage after five years. With each pre-marital partner, that percentage decreases, such that with 16 pre-marital partners, only 20% of those women were still married after 5 years. 


As someone on this forum told me (and I know it's true) it's not about holding someone's past against them. It's about looking at the person they ARE, at the heart, and knowing for sure that they're the right match for you. She does seem to love me and is willing to be honest with me. And I know it's mostly my insecurities that I need to be comfortable with. But how?

And am I right to be concerned about future infidelity and whether we share the same values and hold the same emotional value for sex? So far, I've been trying to talk myself out of these doubts and worries. Is this something that we should talk candidly about so that I get a better understanding of her behavior back then and hear why she's in a different place today?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

. Engagement normally means that you have already explored who you both are and your values. If they mesh with what you see for a marriage and family then an engagement is a natural next step. You both seem to have skipped this step. 

. Something seems to be missing, you have to ask what was the basis of your relationship when you made the decision to get engaged? Did you really share your thoughts and dreams or did you shove them away? Were you dazzled by having an attractive woman on your arm but are just now realizing that a real intimate and close relationship is more than surface appearances? 

You did not set out to deceive this woman. But do you think that these issues have always been there in your mind and you did not bring them out until a few months before the wedding. 

This will have a profound effect on her and i am certain will make her judge herself and make her doubt her value as a woman she will IC to recover from this. I think this is one of the most devestating thing that women are enduring. If she got in a car accident for drinking and driving or injured herself because she did something foolish she would not be shamed and judge. 

But if she makes a misstep that involves sex that effects no one but herself. Instead of support from a man who is she makes the mistake of trusting to share her pain she get no support but she is judged. How horrible is that. That will change in the future as generation of men will be socialized to know that they have not been appointed as a judge over women. 

Just as she deserves not be judged for the pain she caused to herself,, you deserve the same for the pain you are causing to her, to her family and friends. What you have done does not make you a bad person just as she is not a bad person.

Now you are actually gathering evident that supports your judgements of her. Do share your investigations with her did you tell her tgat you researching to help you decide? Have you discussed your findings. She has a decision to make as well. She may decide she does not want to marry a man with so many doubts that he instead of talking to her to base his decision he seeks magazine articles. 

. If not then you acting in secret which is incompatible with an intimate relationship. Therefore, you may be emotionally disconnected from her and that is no basis for an intimate relationship. You use this evidence that you have gathered behind her back and use it to support you judgement. . 

Why not be at lest merciful if not compassionate and let her go? You you should not be with someone who provokes unhappiness and judgement on your part. She does not deserve to be with someone who provokes pain. Wouldn't it be more loving to let her go? 

Think about it, especially the last part. Calling off the wedding would be nothing to the years of hell you will both endure. I feel so sorry for her- God's blessing and solace to you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

hollander77 said:


> And am I right to be concerned about future infidelity and whether we share the same values and hold the same emotional value for sex?


I don't think you have to worry about infidelity.
But, a woman is seeking something when she goes through sexual experimentation. You should figure out what that is, and make sure you are the one that gives it to her. Look to see what her father lacked.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Btw the anal was not her idea. And does not sound like something she likes. Think about it, why would you want a woman you say you care about to do something sexually that she was talked into and was probably a painful experience? How could you get pleasure with an act that has no appeal for her? 

Do you think you are the one who views sex as just getting yourself off. Are you sure that you are the one that if associates love and connection with sex. I think sexual jelousy carries with a sense of entitlement. She is obliged to do unwanted act to salve your insecurities. What state of mind do you have to be in to want her to "offer" you anal sex that is associated with unpleaseness for her. Could you really get pleasure while she is in emotional and physical pain? Not many loving mature men would be able to do that. 

Since you pulling out research and predictors, men who regard sex as some they do to get off are more likely to cheat because sex is sex to them. They don't care who they hurt. Men who are judgmental, may get emotional abusive if their spouse does not meet there exacting standards. They are less likely to stay in a relationship when they have to work hard to keep it together. They think they are entitled to better and lack the capacity for intimacy that would make them stick it out. 

I am not challenging your right to question wheather you should go ahead but it seems that you fail to consider your own rather considerable falts because you think hers are so much worse. Moreover, you have not had the challenges she has had yet, you dont seem to have managed to develop the character that she has. How is is possible that the way you are going about this is principaled. What do you think? . .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

Hollander,

It sounds to me that you need justification for her past relationships-- why?

You have been together for three years; it a long enough time to know who she really is NOW. Why do you feel the need to approve what relationship she had in the past? The only relevance to you of her past is that she has grown out of these realthionships to be the person she is now and she is with you. Let it go... otherwise, you will ruin what you have.

Read your latest post -- I couldn't help wondering why you couldn't just have the faith in the woman you claim to love too much to depart from and in your future together, instead of planting seeds of fear in yourself ?

Statistic says-- so what ? If you are so uncertain of your future, why just quit now, to spare her and yourself ? Are you sure you love her or is she too good to let go ?

I try not to judge -- but you now sound very compulsive and controlling -- unless things are 100% under your control , you freak out. Does your fiancee know that you are caculating her loyalty by numbers, does she know she is already under your suspicion of potential infidelity ? How would she feel? Geee..... it's just hands down cold and hurtful.


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

roamingmind said:


> Hollander,
> 
> It sounds to me that you need justification for her past -- why?
> 
> You have been together for three years; it a long enough time to know who she really is NOW. Why do you feel the need to approve what she did in the past? The only relevance to you of her past is that she has grown out to be the person she is now and she is with you. Let it go... otherwise, you will ruin what you have.


huh??? maybe because he has some moral standards? which oh by the way have also made him who he is.....not saying its right or wrong...it is what it is for anyone its different


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

prc911 said:


> huh??? maybe because he has some moral standards? which oh by the way have also made him who he is.....not saying its right or wrong...it is what it is for anyone its different


I think you make a common mistake, you confuse having moral standards with being self-righteous. One is a personal code of beliefs that governs personal behavior. The other is the almost the same except - the self righteous do not measure their behavior as a reflection of inner beliefs. 

If morality is action then does the OP have moral standards as you say? Yes but they do not govern his action so I think he is self- righteous. 

Perhaps a moral man would release a partner he discovered was incompatible. Such behavior seems consistent with a moral code that includes "do no harm". A moral man would perhaps make sure his partner understands that it is his desire to protect her from harm by avoiding a commitment that he knows he cannot uphold. This behavior may reflect a moral code that includes - "judge not that thou shall not be judged" . 

I am not sure that his desire to get her to talk about her painful past for his sexual titillation or feeling he is is entitled to sex acts regardless of how much pain it brings to her, is a behavior that reflects a moral core. It is creepy and off putting, and shows that his quest for sexual pleasure overrides his empathy. 

Maybe thats not as amoral as 16 sexual partners, but at the very lest some doubt as to weather he will make a good mate. Strange that her 16 partners make her unsuitable however his concern with his own pleasure may make him unsuitable. She is very vulnerable now and he seems to be using her vulnerabilities to fuel his lust. Does that mean he is lacking in moral standards? 

I suppose not by the standards of the self- righteous. By their definition of morality his standards need only be reflected in his ability to recognize immorality others and to treat them accordingly.

I think about these things because i am reading a great deal in an attempt to control my judgmental nature. It is so difficult . I hope my studies will help me to stop pointing my finger at others and police my actions. My motives are selfish though. If I accomplish that, I may finally absolve myself of guilt and shame of being so amoral and stupid when I was 15yo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Catherine, I don't agree about sex as a means to "get off" as you put it. For me, I really feel emotionally connected to her in the act of making love and I hope she feels the same about me. As I said, lately I feel that I'm the one initiated sex and sometimes I don't feel the passion (though I realize that can wear off in any relationship.) And I would never make her do a sexual act (anal or otherwise) that she was uncomfortable with. We are already comfortable doing very kinky things in bed that we both enjoy and our sex life is pretty decent for the most part. I'm not looking to make her uncomfortable for my own sexual gratification.

Roamingmind, yes, I appreciate you comment about taking stock in the past three years. But marriage is for a long time and I still worry about the future even though we've shown each other nothing but love during the past three years. I worry that we'll have temptations some day - she has many former friends locally and on Facebook that she's had a past with and whom she's still friendly with. I wish that wasn't a distraction we didn't have. I don't have any of my ex-girlfriends on Facebook. In fact, I was upset the other day when I learned that she had a sexual past with a bartender at a bar she brings me too regularly. I had never asked about their history until recently so she wasn't being deceiving - she honestly thought it wasn't important and considers this guy a friend. But I was upset that she thought it was okay to bring me to this bar in the first place - I had suspected they had sex before and had felt as if I was the one being left out. She fell into the trap of the "hooking up" lifestyle in college and her early years where she had sex with guys first and then formed relationships afterwards. She even used to glorify her exploits in the past to friends back home when Sex & the City was popular. She says she's grown up since then and I want to believe that she's a different person know. That she's finally found love with me and everything's different. 

We had a very difficult discussion today when we talked more about her past and I was uncomfortable with the amount of partners she's had and that she had cheated on previous boyfriends on at least two different occasions. She says that it's not fair to draw parallels to our relationship, but it still makes me insecure and I worry. We both feel very attached to each other and I've been very clear about my discomfort about her past. She's upset that I can't get over it, but she also doesn't want to lose me. She asked if we should post-pone the wedding, but I said that's not what I wanted (though I'm really not sure).

What's more is that all these insecurities about her past is negatively affecting my thinking about our current relationship to the point where I'm wondering whether we're really right for each other. Yes, I do love her. But I suddenly seem worried about whether we share enough common interests, disappointed that we don't work out together, dissatisfied with her poor language, worried by the occasional struggle to have good conversations, etc. I have trouble knowing whether these are real problems or whether the stress of her past and the wedding is making me crazy. Certainly, there are many positives about her that I love and would miss if we weren't together. 

As for the moral standards - I don't know about that. Yes, I feel a little put off by the fact that she had so many partners. But if I was being honest, I'm jealous that I didn't have more sexual success and female attraction in my earlier life. But still, she's way above the averages in the numbers of partners and I would have thought that she should have learned some lessons sooner, even if she has confused sex and love at times. The fact that she had sex with this bartender and her boss at work (15 years her senior) during the same time period, tells me that she made poor decisions, which she's admitted herself. (This happened when she was 21, interning in the city during the summer - she's 28 now.) Is that I sign of poor character? Even if she did grow up since then, the guy she was sleeping with immediately before me didn't even know how to spell her first name - I happened to see this from one of her Facebook messages. She dated and slept with this guy for over a month and he doesn't even know how to spell her name? That doesn't make me feel good about her choices, willpower or decision-making. 

I'm reasonably convinced by the way she seems truly regretful about her past "mistakes" (her word) and she says that I was a "better person" when we were younger. But as much as she reassures me, I still have trust issues and wonder if we're meant to be together. It sometimes makes me feel ill to think that she submitted and gave herself to so many guys before me. I feel like I wanted to be reckless too when I was younger but still "played by the rules" and never had sex outside a relationship. I want to believe that our relationship is totally different than the others she's had. But I have trouble getting her past decisions and partners out of my head.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Just woke at 5:30am because I cant sleep. I look at her sleeping she looks so sweet and it's hard for me to think she made these choices in the past.

HOW DO I KNOW IF I'LL BE ABLE TO FORGIVE AND FORGET? What seems to bother me most is not the number of partners - though that too also makes me uncomfortable thinking she should have learned sooner that this strategy of having sex first and having a relationship afterwards wasn't working for her. More disconcerting to me is suspecting that we might have different values. That's a funny thing to me to think about because I would find it difficult to state what my values actually are. 

In the past, she mentioned that she had a long-distance BF in Chicago but she had gone home with another guy she had met in a club one night. (This came up during a discussion yesterday.) But she says she didn't "cheat" on her BF. (Presumably she feels that because she only slept in the same bed with this other guy and didn't actually have sex, she thinks it wasn't cheating. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that certainly seems like cheating to me, right?) It turns out that she eventually broke up with the original BF, started dating this new club guy and she became his girlfriend. But I also found out that during this new relationship, which was turning sour pretty quickly, she also was kissing other guys at a club, so she also seemed to cheat on this new guy too. There seems to be one other instance where she had a BF and went on a date with someone else. I just wish she had shown better restraint in the past and she would agree with me on that. She was surrounded by a lot of cocaine with some of the people she used to hang with at the clubs but never took any drugs, so she used good judgment there, so I'm a little sad she didn't use better judgment in jumping into bed with guys so quickly. (She says she's not proud of her past - that it's a "mess" - and that she wouldn't want her daughter doing the things she did.)

She claimed that I don't trust her. And while it was difficult to me to hear that, since I don't want to feel that way, there's obviously some truth to it, if I keep thinking about all this stuff. I'm trying to reassure myself that this past stuff really doesn't matter, but it's so hard.


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

Hollander,

I understand you, and I don't really know what to say.

She is correct-- you don't trust her . You have kept on stating her sexual past wouldn't bother you but obviously it does. and you are having a trouble swallowing it. I strongly doubt you can truly get over it and be happy with her. Whether you admit it or not, in your mind, she is now already tainted, off the pedestral. Whether you realize or not, what you have been doing has hurt her, her trust in you and in herself. It could destroy her -- she opened up to you on your request , trusting you can accept as you assured her, despite the fact that she is obviously uncomfortable and regretful about the past. Now, she will come to the realization that her past is forever haunting her , she is judged permenantly. When you finally are done if you ever reach that point, she will have relived her past that she is not proud of --- does this ever occur to you? You are punishing her for being honest . 

Yes, she made bad decisions and behaved inappropriately. But the time you are together, hasn't she earned your trust? If she didn't, why did you propose? 



> What's more is that all these insecurities about her past is negatively affecting my thinking about our current relationship to the point where I'm wondering whether we're really right for each other. Yes, I do love her. But I suddenly seem worried about whether we share enough common interests, disappointed that we don't work out together, dissatisfied with her poor language, worried by the occasional struggle to have good conversations, etc. I have trouble knowing whether these are real problems or whether the stress of her past and the wedding is making me crazy. Certainly, there are many positives about her that I love and would miss if we weren't together


I have to agree -- these are the things you really need to think about . And I begin to think they are really what you are concerned about. They might have always been there but eluded you because you're occupied by your ego of having an attractive girl. Now they start hitting you. I think what you need to ask is what you want for a wife and does she have what you want? Does what she have outweigh what she doesn't ?

Only you can she can decide what to do. But I would strongly recommend you have some time alone to sort your thoughts. She should do the same. You are obsessed at the moment. Before you can get over these suspicion, there shouldn't be a wedding; once you decide to have the wedding, you need let it go completely, otherwise, it will loom large down the road. Of course, be prepared, she wil also decide whether she wants to pursue her life with you. 

I wish you both the best.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Do the details matter? I don't think they do. I think what matters is whether you feel that she's either going to persist in hiding things from you - which may or may not be true, and/or, that she's somehow going to settle down and frump out with you into a quiet boring young old age. I mean she did at that crazy stuff with other people, maybe she's all done with that?

I would ask her that, is she getting married just to strap on the mom jeans, get fat and boring and stop being a woman?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I notice what appears to be a pattern in post of men who late in the relationship decide that their partners past is important to them. The poster asks for help and advice but largely ignores the posts and seems to determined to play out a script. He hounds and tortures the woman with his moral judgements. The first questions I have is why would a man get himself in this position? It is not a sign of a deeper problem. Isn't the problem that he made a choice to remain in a relationship with a woman who is clearly incompatible. He waits until a few months before the wedding to trott out a moral standard that lay dormant for 3 years. 

To me, her 16 partners is a smoke screen. Discussions of women with too many sex partners seems to eclipse all other considerations. It seems to me that the poster is the one with the problem and a serious one. 

The average man selects a mate for her comparable with his goals to provide a secure home for his off- spring. The decision to marry for most men is a transition in the Manning up process and they usually have an idea up front about what they are looking for. They usually make their choice with the concerns of the potential mates suitability as a faithful wife, good mother and good lover. This poster seems to have gotten confused and does not seem to have made the transition because he made his selection bass ackwards. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> The first questions I have is why would a man get himself in this position? It is not a sign of a deeper problem.


yea we arent all perfect....to be honest my wife prefers me to have this issue than to be an alcoholic, workaholic or worse, a cheater......

i think at the end of the day its really up to them both, and no one else...to either accept or reject their differences...we can say or recommend or critisize whatever we want...but ultimately this is an issue completely between their own, and is each their own very right to change or not change it....there is no one than can tell the original poster how he needs to change the way he feels...if he/she feels that her partners moral standards arent up to his/her then its really completely up to the individual to deal with this in their own way....it affects nothing but the both of them and only their choice....we cannot judge him either way.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

I fully understand that these are my own insecurities about her past and lack of self-confidence that are tripping me up. She's been nothing but good to me. I hope that I can bury these negative thoughts with positive ones of our relationship and keep the reasons I love her in the forefront of my mind. 

Would others mind talking from their own experience where these kinds of negative thoughts of a partner's past did fade away (either with time or positive actions/thoughts)? So far, I'm worried to see that many report that they suffer with these thoughts for years (and I'm sure their partners suffer too). It's a distraction that gets in the way of growing the love in the relationship.

Obviously, I'm hoping that it's something possible albeit difficult. Yes, it's regrettable that I have a time crunch with my wedding less than 2 months away and I know Catherine would say that I this issue should be fully resolved before walking down the aisle - but it's just not that easy standing where I'm standing today. (I know it's not fair to her if I'm struggling with this issue and it kills me.) But I'm afraid that I've caused enough emotional stress for us by voicing my insecurities already and I'd worry that a wedding postponement (which she offered, likely out of sympathy) would really result in the whole thing falling apart, which I might regret for the rest of my life.

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate everyone's comments, even if they're tough to swallow. These forums should be required reading for all couples and wish that I had found this resource sooner.


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## lovenewb (Jul 6, 2011)

So many threads that are this same recurring issue, males being retro-actively jealous of females past sex lives.

I am one of these too. I am 31, she is 35, (she is the first woman I've ever been with at all levels) we have been living together for 1.5 years and she wants to get married. I do too, but I'm having so many conflicting thoughts and feelings about her past wild and crazy party lifestyle with plenty of sex and drugs involved. Sometimes I get *really* turned off about this. Other times, I just don't care.


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

lovenewb said:


> So many threads that are this same recurring issue, males being retro-actively jealous of females past sex lives.
> 
> I am one of these too. I am 31, she is 35, (she is the first woman I've ever been with at all levels) we have been living together for 1.5 years and she wants to get married. I do too, but I'm having so many conflicting thoughts and feelings about her past wild and crazy party lifestyle with plenty of sex and drugs involved. Sometimes I get *really* turned off about this. Other times, I just don't care.


is totally normal...I have the same issue, and we get this way because "we care"....if we didnt care as much for them this wouldnt really bother us....
also keep in mind this would bother me in a sort of similar way wether it was my wife, or my daughter.....people keep assuming this is just an issue with our SOs


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

I've heard on this forum that it's important to accept and respect the past of your partner. It's not that you have to agree with everything that happened. I get that. But she's clearly told me that she didn't respect herself in the years before me and that she doesn't want me to even "know her back then". 

If SHE doesn't respect her own past, it's a little hard for me to understand and respect it. I think she's past it now and thus I hate that I have to rehash bad memories. But I feel like I can't accept it without knowing at least some of the context and even then, it's taking me a loooong time to get over. Sometimes, I feel like I can ask anything at all about the past for fear of rehashing something that she's uncomfortable about.

She can tell me that I should just look at our own experience over the past three years, which have been absolutely wonderful, but we have to look ahead to the next 50 years so I'd like to feel more comfortable about this. I want to accept that her past instance of cheating and number of partners had nothing to do with me, but it's taking some time. And I wish I could accelerate the process!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

From the post that I have read, the problem seems to crop up periodically throughout the marriage. Now granted the people who post are the ones with problems and may not be representative. Can you seek IC to find out if it will resolve? Also, do a google search on the problem. 

One more thing. I think you should both read relationship books starting now. His needs her needs, the five love languages, not just friends, are a few. You should especially read one on opposite sex friends. I think it is inappropriate for her to keep in contact with men from her past. I may be wrong, so you both must decide. I see this as a boundary setting item that you both should honor. Putting old relationships completely asleep is important to the security of the union I think. 

I wish the best of luck and happy thoughts in your future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

hollander77 said:


> But she's clearly told me that she didn't respect herself in the years before me and that she doesn't want me to even "know her back then".


Don't you get it--- she is not proud of her past; she has learned lesson; she decides to put it behind; she is ashamed ---
What else do you want her to do? She can't change what happened. You have to reopen her wounds again and again, make her ashamed of herself again -- If she still holds the same value as back then, why would she regret what happened? Doesn't it show you she has grown out of it? 

Nobody can say for sure that his/her marriage can last forever although everyone wishes for it. When you decide to get married, your goal is to walk down the journey with that special person as long as you can-- it's every couple's GOAL, and they work towards that goal together. Marriage doesn't have insurance .

Just mind you, in your process of getting over, she could be hurt badly if she hasn't already. In the end, it would be her who wonders if you are the one to marry.

Agree with Catherine, you need professional help and solve the problem before your wedding, even it means postponing it. To have the wedding out of the fear that things will fall apart from there is very wrong.


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

roamingmind said:


> Don't you get it.


no he doesnt get it....thats the whole problem...and this type of feedback just isnt very helpful for us with this problem.....

actually is the fact that most women regret their sexual past which makes things worse....if she is truly over it then it shouldnt pain her...otherwise why is it bothering her too?? is it because it changed who she is or would have been??

you gotta keep in mind all of these factors...not just blame him for all the issues....he didnt make the mistakes...someone else did...

Hollander, the only piece of advice that ever help me on this....is realizing you are better than her for not doing those things....dont hold her on a "perfection" pedestal because that will cause the problem....once you both realize and accept that you are a better person than she is for not making those mistakes it will become easier to deal w it....it might sound selfish but hey you need to figure out entirely for yourself what works....
no one on this board can tell you how to change or feel about your moral standards....if you realize you are 100% in control of how you handle this....you will also feel better....you can dump her, you can live with her rest of your life...its your choice....and no one else's


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

Hollander,

Please read this reply by *Sealman1966, reply #299*from another thread It says all ---

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...exual-past-creating-stress-20.html#post363491

Also, here is my other post and hope information there can be helpful to you. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-bothered-wives-past-sextual-experiences.html

Best and good luck.


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

prc911 said:


> no he doesnt get it....thats the whole problem...and this type of feedback just isnt very helpful for us with this problem.....
> 
> *actually is the fact that most women regret their sexual past which makes things worse....if she is truly over it then it shouldnt pain her...otherwise why is it bothering her too?? is it because it changed who she is or would have been??*you gotta keep in mind all of these factors...*not just blame him for all the issues....he didnt make the mistakes...someone else did*...
> 
> Hollander, the only piece of advice that ever help me on this....is realizing you are better than her for not doing those things....dont hold her on a "perfection" pedestal because that will cause the problem....once you both realize and accept that *you are a better person than she is for not making those mistakes *it will become easier to deal w it....it might sound selfish but hey you need to figure out entirely for yourself what works....


Wowwww, I am utterly speechless on this logic and justification.
If you have this wonder, if this is against your value, why on earth did you choose her at the first place, knowing she had such a history? Does it make you a better person that you didn't have the experiences she had? NO. Is it her mistake that you have these thoughts ? NO. Does having your wife/fiancee/girlfriend revisit the life that pains her show your care and love? No. 

I truly wish you the best luck to find yourself the peace of mind.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

prc911 said:


> no he doesnt get it....thats the whole problem...and this type of feedback just isnt very helpful for us with this problem.....
> 
> actually is the fact that most women regret their sexual past which makes things worse....if she is truly over it then it shouldnt pain her...otherwise why is it bothering her too?? is it because it changed who she is or would have been??
> 
> ...


Honestly, this post just makes me feel awful. Wow.

I haven't had many sexual partners and even I do regret some things.

I don't know if my fiance has regrets or not, but does it make him a better person if he does not and I do?

There are men on this forum who admit they size every woman they see up on weather they are f%$#kable or not. Women are bombarded with the message that their value lies in their sexuality. yet they are not supposed to take that message to heart and should remain practically virginal.

Not to mention the fact that nearly all young people engage in risk taking behaviors, and this usually settles down as we age and when the brain becomes fully developed.



Funny how there are moral standards held by some men who admit they wish they could have had more experiences.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

PRC, thanks for your input, but I don't agree with you and I don't feel as if I was the "better person" (even though she tells me that I was/am). I feel a little disappointed that she didn't make better choices but I definitely don't feel better than her. She's the woman I love and we all make mistakes. I sympathize with her in that she slept around when she was young, misguided, vulnerable and lacking self confidence. She wasn't just looking to get laid every night. Despite the fact that she's beautiful (tall, slender and blonde), she never truly felt pretty and accepting the advances of men filled a void for her at the time.

My fear is that sex became so casual for her that it may have lost some of the emotional value for us, than it would have otherwise (as if it hadn't been so casual in the past with many partners). She says that yes, she had a lot of meaningless sex in the past, but that it's certainly not meaningless for us. We have great sex, but sometimes I wonder if we share the same level of passion and emotional intimacy in the physical act. Sometimes I don't feel it. 

Things may have fallen apart for me yesterday. I brought up a situation that was on my mind because it made me question whether we had the same values. Basically she had a long-distance boyfriend in the past and during that time went home with a guy at a night club, though she mentioned that she hadn't "cheated" since they didn't actually have sex. I had to bring that up, because that feels wrong in my book and it worried me if we had different views about that. She later admitted that she knows it was wrong, said her past was a mess, and got really upset to feel like I was questioning her values. I later sent her a message (stupid) saying that "I don't have to love your past (just as you don't) but I certainly love you." Stupid for me to do, I know. She was so angry with me and so upset. She said that I made her feel like **** more than any other jerk she's dated in the past. She said she can't go on trying to plan the wedding without me having more conviction about us. (She's right and it kills me that I'm causing her such duress.) I admitted that I felt like I wasn't going to be ready and didn't know what to do. She says that I need to decide one way or the other, even if that means letting her go. She says she doesn't want to "convince me" to marry her, but said that she wouldn't take any part in cancelling the wedding because it "feels so right" for her, even with all this recent turmoil. I asked if we'd ever be able to recover from this - I've caused a lot of damage. She said yes we could. 

I don't know how to get my mind right. I struggle with convincing myself that we're really right for each other and forgetting her past sexual experiences. I read that if you feel like you have to "talk yourself" into getting married (which I can sometimes relate to), that's reason alone not to do it. 

We went to work today feeling like we both have been hit with emotional freight trains.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

Roamingmind, thanks for the reference to the Sealman 1966 post. It's insightful and I agree with him/her.

Unfortunately for me, there's a huge difference between understanding the message and feeling it.


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

hollander77 said:


> PRC, thanks for your input, but I don't agree with you .


you dont have to agree...thats precisely the point...its absolutely within your own control and decision as to how you deal with this...whatever works for YOU....and no one can fault you or label you for what YOU decide to do....


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

Syrum said:


> Not to mention the fact that nearly all young people engage in risk taking behaviors, and this usually settles down as we age and when the brain becomes fully developed.
> 
> Funny how there are moral standards held by some men who admit they wish they could have had more experiences.


therein lies the bigger issue...that in order to develop the "experiences" one has to engage in risky and immature behavior, just to regret it later?...doesnt make a bit of sense to me, not the message am giving to my children for sure....

you might question whatever moral standards, but because they are different it doesnt make them wrong or less "normal".


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is really bazaar how these men make their dilemma the womans fault! They have below average comand of their lives as men. They, like their partners, have made bad choices. They marry women they are incomparable with and compound the error by having children. Then go into fantasies of moral superiority with the woman they choose. This is a mental illness and should be treated as such. 

I hope this girl is smart and walks away from this marriage. It may not happen before the wedding but she will walk eventually - her love and respect is being erroded away. If she meets someone who fulfills her emotional needs she is likely to leave 

@prc if it makes you feel better to think yourself morally superior then go right ahead. However, if you watch porn, talk with your friends about having sex with other women, slap the back of tge married guy having an affair, lie to your wife, have had or entertain the thought of an affair then you are not superior. 

Do you think your choice in a partner shows good sense? You may want to look at your situation completely differently - Do you ever turn that moral outrage to yourself. Since you are the one who made the mistake. Have you considered that due to your choice of a partner you knew was incompatible, you created a dysfunctional relationship. 

If you were irresponsible enough to have kids you compound your error. You need to look at yourself and take responsibility for your bad choices and accept the the consequences.. Your wife and kids have to accept you so why should you remain above the fray with a fantasies of moral superiority. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## prc911 (Dec 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> @prc if it makes you feel better to think yourself morally superior then go right ahead. However, if you watch porn, talk with your friends about having sex with other women, slap the back of tge married guy having an affair, lie to your wife, have had or entertain the thought of an affair then you are not superior.


it doesnt make me actually better overall as there are obviously a lot of things she is better at than me!! but it does bring some sort of balancing.....am ok with it, she is ok with it...we are happier than ever...who else do we need to get approval from?? who else cares? the point is this is highly an inter-relationship matter between two people....there is NO right answer neither are you or anyone else in a position of NORMALCY to call out men or the OP as having a unique or odd/illness behavior thats unacceptable at any level....they both have to learn to live with their differences whilst considering some of those differences might not completely ever change.....


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## MISC (Jul 27, 2011)

I am in the opposite side of the fence. I am the fiance - much like yours, I also had multiple casual sexual relationships in the past. I googled 'does the past matter in relationships' because last night, my boyfriend brought up issues with my past sexual encounters.

I didn't value sex and gave in to men. These behaviors all stemmed from a series of sexual abuses done to me by men of authority in my life - a teacher, an uncle, a cousin and a friend all molested me at some level, at some point in my life which started when I was in 5th grade until I was a junior in college. Until that time, (3rd yr college) I remained pure outside of the abuses although I felt used, dirty and worthless. But when my cousin did it to me - this was the last straw - I told myself that I will not go through the same pain again. I numbed myself in subscribing to the notion that I will just let it all happen. I thought this was better than expecting men to show respect only to be abused. 

It tore me apart to know that something that occurred in the past bothered him so much that he started yelling like he's being tortured. Like you, he knew about my past a long time ago. (about 6 years ago) He's also made plenty of mistakes in the past that most women would find off. But I accepted him and made peace with his experiences. I knew I couldn't have controlled it. I understood where all his past actions came from. Also, it was his life - nothing that I can do to change that. 

So now this makes it difficult for me to understand how he can take my past so much against me when I do not feel any of that at all towards his past. I love him so much but if he can't accept me for who I was and who I am today because of that past, then perhaps, we should think twice about getting married. 

****

We're active in church and have joined a program to recover from past hurts/ hang ups/ addictions etc. I am praying that this will help us sort through our scarred past and move forward to become better people. Although this program is not an assurance that we would end up together, it's important for us to have this kind of support, especially that we are going through this slippery road of engagement. 

I cannot offer any tips/ advice. I can only tell my own story, which hopefully, can get you to see the flip side of the coin.

I am still hurting right now though I got a message from him earlier saying that he should stop thinking about it and carry on to love me for the rest of our lives. I still struggle with thoughts of letting go of our relationship.


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## Corkey88 (Sep 16, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So 50 partners for a guy would be acceptable? There shouldn't be a double standard. If it is fine for one, it should be fine for another.
> 
> Woman here. She had sex with many, many people and wanted you and only you. That tells you something.
> From this post and your other, you sound insecure and a tad like you are trying to change her or rather "shame" her. That will not end up well for you.


There exists a double standard and let me explain why that is. Say for example, we have a wager as follows: one attractive average women and one very attractive yet average man. The wager being which one will be able to bed more members of the opposite sex over a given week. I will wager all my worldly possessions on the women winning this wager hands down and I will tell you why. Men are not very discerning - they have almost a compulsion to have sex due to the testosterone pulsing through their veins. There is always plenty of available penis to go around no matter where a woman looks. Men give their sexuality away for free. They need to work at getting laid and whether it is considered right or not, sleeping with many women for a man, is an accomplishment because not many men are able to do it. Why do you think other guys consider players to be "studs" and are often admired among their male peers? 

For a woman, on the other hand, it is not an accomplishment because they just need to smile, look pretty and be available. They don't have to pursue a man in order to get laid. "God don't make lonely girls" is a song lyric I once heard and it is so true. The better looking they are, the easier this becomes. 

So yes there exists a double standard here. Not saying it is right, it just exists due to the difference between men and women and how they approach sex.


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## perfectstranger (Aug 14, 2010)

hollander77 said:


> I fully understand that these are my own insecurities about her past and lack of self-confidence that are tripping me up. She's been nothing but good to me. I hope that I can bury these negative thoughts with positive ones of our relationship and keep the reasons I love her in the forefront of my mind.
> 
> Would others mind talking from their own experience where these kinds of negative thoughts of a partner's past did fade away (either with time or positive actions/thoughts)? So far, I'm worried to see that many report that they suffer with these thoughts for years (and I'm sure their partners suffer too). It's a distraction that gets in the way of growing the love in the relationship.
> 
> ...


I can't believe this trainwreck is still going on. Chances are this girl didn't go through a promiscuous stage because she was SO confident in being lovable in other ways.
Maybe she grew up, got it together, and did some work on herself to really be a strong, mature, confident woman. That would be admirable and I'd hope it earned her better than an insecure husband who doubts and judges her while struggling with jealousy and his own lack of sexual confidence.
Or, maybe she just partnered up and settled down, in which case this bout of premarital judgment and jealousy is only going to aggravate her old lingering insecurity.
Besides, there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING less sexy than a man who needs gory details. It screams sexual insecurity. 
Call it off now and don't embarrass her even closer to the date. Worse still to marry her and torture her with your own issues. What she did is done. Maybe it's fully behind her and maybe she still has shadows, but either way this -- as you appear to realize -- is all on you.


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

I'm beginning to realize that postponing the wedding is probably the right decision, albeit a difficult and painful one. She knows about the internal anguish I'm struggling with (past sexual experience, knowing that I'm ready, knowing that we're right for other other), because I've been open and honest with her. (I've been feeling desperate and unable to sleep for weeks on end.) But I'd feel even worse if I had been lying to myself that everything was okay and not letting her know about this stuff. Despite all the issues and anxieties, she says she wants no part in cancelling the wedding - that she knows "it's right" and still wants to marry me and believes that I'm (still) the "one" for her. We both acknowledge that some damage would have to be repaired - she fired back at me strongly when I had pushed too hard about her past and she was right to do so. (She said that I wouldn't want a woman that didn't stand up for herself and she's right.) I think that I'm going to swallow very hard and tell her that I'd like to postpone the wedding. That I'd still like to continue the relationship and live together but that I'm simply not ready to get married. I'd tell her that she's wonderful - she is - and that I value our future happiness to much to jeopardize it, but walking down the aisle when I'm simply not in the right frame of mind. I know I'm risking a lot. She likely won't totally be surprised, but very very hurt nonetheless and that will kill me too, knowing the position I've put her in. I don't want her to feel that she was tricked in any way. I didn't wish this upon us it's regrettable that I didn't realize things were off sooner, but I guess that's life. But I'd much rather make the difficult decision now and try to save our future happiness than run the risk of making an even bigger mistake of barreling through with the wedding only to realize years later that we weren't meant for each other. I truly hope she doesn't walk. I hope we can work on repairing our relationship without the stress of the wedding, work on getting some clarity about my/our feelings and emotions and hopefully we'll get another chance at a happy wedding day down the road. 

Please keep me in your thoughts and I'd welcome any additional advice. Obviously, I want her to feel special and wonderful and that I still still love her, despite making this difficult decision to postpone. I have to focus on myself as the one being not prepared - she's done everything right to me and the last thing I want to do is to make her her feel anything less than the amazing woman she is. I need to be able to convey this strongly to her and with conviction.

Thanks (with a heavy heart).


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

hollander77 said:


> I'm beginning to realize that postponing the wedding is probably the right decision, albeit a difficult and painful one. ....Thanks (with a heavy heart).


I believe it's a right decision and I believe you see it coming. Nevertheless, it's very brave of you to admit and face it. I believe she will understand and work with you. 

Please do seek some professional help though even if you don't think it's helpful. It might give your some new perspectives. And most importantly, be candid about your feeling but stop questioning her-- she knows you are struggling and for what, that is enough. 

I truly hope things will work out for you. But if it doesn't , you learn more about yourself .


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## hollander77 (May 4, 2011)

I’m updating my situation because another member inquired as to my status but any feedback/perspective is always appreciated. It’s been nearly two weeks since things ultimately came to a head – I told her that I wasn’t ready to get married, that I love her too much to lie to myself and to her when I’m clearly not in a good emotional state to get married. I was hoping to postpone the wedding and not terminate the relationship, but of course, she was crushed with the decision to cancel (though probably not totally surprised at this point). She asked what I would learn in 6-12 months that I didn’t know already and that it takes some degree of faith to be married. I know things were said in the highest of emotional states, but she said that I had “ruined her life” and that she felt “deceived”. We left each other following that discussion and she left for a pre-scheduled trip back home. I called her mother the following morning after letting my parents know. It would have been better if her mother really let me have it, but she said that she “loved me” though wanted to ring my neck (understandably). There was a lot of crying on both sides. Her mom said that her sister would help my her move out of my apartment. That happened last week without me around and I returned home to a depressing, half-empty apartment and an engagement ring on my nightstand. 

I’ve been consumed by waves of different emotions - guilt, sorrow, some degree of relief, fear of loss, regret, worry and also some wonder about what might lie ahead. I remain slightly frightened by the prospect that maybe this realization of my loss hasn’t quite sunk in yet. And because being alone in my apartment without her is incredibly uncomfortable and sad, I’ve been going out every night, meeting people, drinking (a lot) with friends and just committed to moving to a new neighborhood for three months. I saw a therapist for the first time since things unraveled and he’s convinced that I’m depressed and that my intense socializing, drinking, etc. is my way of dealing with the depression. That may be true. I feel some urgency to date a lot either to realize that there are other interesting people out there for me or to realize that I may have let go of something truly special. I want to reach out to her just to hear her voice and to know she’s doing alright. It wasn’t my intention that we would break up so abruptly or silently, though I can understand if she needs space, given how much she likely feels hurt and rejected. Maybe I need the space even more than she does to figure myself out. (The therapist said that even though I called off the wedding, she was the one that broke up with me. Though I’m not sure what choice she had.)

Perhaps with more time and possibly couples counseling, I could have gotten comfortable prior to calling off the wedding – I feel that we both could have communicated better. While she’s right on some level in that we’ve been together a long time and that I already “know” her, some important discussions and realizations happened only within the last few months, which for me, needed processing. (The fact that I only just learned that the bartender with whom we had been hanging out with was a former lover of hers was one thing that I felt I needed more time to process.) But also, I wanted to be more certain that we were/are right for each other. I felt like I was rushing to feel better about things with the wedding coming up and it just became unbearable. Perhaps, ultimately, I was scared of making the commitment to get married (whether to her or to anyone). I still love her and I miss her a ton. (And I remember that I didn’t have any of these strong worries/concerns/doubts before 6 months ago.) But I think that if the feeling of loss for me now was so intense, that would be telling me I made a monumental mistake and I would be breaking down the door of where she’s now staying to fight to get her back, and yet I’m not doing that. Again, maybe it hasn’t hit me yet and rather than reflecting on the situation, I’ve been distracting myself with socializing as a way to cope. But maybe my subconscious is telling me that I’m okay (or rather will be okay) with the decision that was made. I’m still distracted at work, but it’s getting a little better day by day. (I’m really hope she’s been able to function okay, at least with her job.) 

I absolutely want to reach out to her but someone told me that I shouldn’t reach out unless I have something really meaningful to say. But the way things have unfolded is/was terrible and it’s not how I want to leave things between us, even if we ultimately separate in the end. I want to have some kind of dialogue with her. But I don’t have any conviction at this point and I’m struggling with myself to find out whether I truly regret this loss and want to salvage something or whether moving on is really what I want/need. I feel like I need to better know myself and what I want before reaching out to her, even though I miss her and want to hear her voice. I certainly don’t want to break her heart again by giving her false hope but I also don’t want us to go months without talking, when I believe at that point there would be no chance to ever see her again. (She may not want to ever see me again anyway - I don’t know.) I’m still feeling a bit stuck and lost.


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