# Wife kissed a "friend" in front of me



## Not the real me

1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.

We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years. About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen. Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle. I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife. She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry". I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife. Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye. Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it. Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself". By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down. Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".
I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her. Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up. This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them. Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go. She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before. I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things. 
We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve. 
So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with. 
Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


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## tom67

Get the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy"


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## Not the real me

Thanks. 
Am I being paranoid or is there no smoke without fire?


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## ReidWright

hmm...sounds like the friend is pushing the boundaries and your wife doesn't mind (or quite likes it).

OR this is just the tip of the iceberg, and shows a familiarity between the two of them that exists in private.

check the phone logs for lots of calls between them, check emails, texts, etc.


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## tom67

ReidWright said:


> hmm...sounds like the friend is pushing the boundaries and your wife doesn't mind (or quite likes it).
> 
> OR this is just the tip of the iceberg, and shows a familiarity between the two of them that exists in private.
> 
> check the phone logs for lots of calls between them, check emails, texts, etc.


Good idea rule it out.


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## Jellybeans

Not the real me said:


> Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, *she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".*
> I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this *she gets up and says she needs the ladies room*. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) *He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. *In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow.
> 
> he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I


Highly inappropriate. All of it,.

My question is why haven't you done something about it? Have you ever even called him out on it? You should have done it RIGHT THERE. And in front of his wife.


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## Yeswecan

Sorry to see this happening. What I'm getting from your post is your wife is more than likely innocent. She is trying to keep it at a distance as you describe at the race track event. Your "friend" however is using the full court press on your wife. The innuendo is quite forward. There might come a time to advise the OM that the comments to your wife are inappropriate. Specifically, "Your kids will never starve." WTH? This is blatant as it gets. If you wife was that naive on these comments it is time to enlighten her. Have her read, "Not Just Friends."

Once my BIL said he had a dream about my W. He said, "If she is that good in my dreams send her on over." He said this to my face. I told him to take a sh!t and step in it. Never spoke to him since. W thinks he is a through and through a$$. She is right.


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## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> Thanks.
> Am I being paranoid or is there no smoke without fire?


Nope! OM is working it. Time to stop the friendship. OM is toxic in your marriage.


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## PhillyGuy13

He is clearly inappropriate and she enjoys the attention. Yes, he wants to bang her.

Is something going on? Hard to tell. I would like to think they wouldn't be THAT brazen in front of you to actually share a meaningful kiss.

What does this guy's wife think about all this? What has her reaction been?

Have you ever checked her phone and email to see if there was anything suspicious?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

PhillyGuy13 said:


> He is clearly inappropriate and she enjoys the attention. Yes, he wants to bang her.
> 
> Is something going on? Hard to tell. I would like to think they wouldn't be THAT brazen in front of you to actually share a meaningful kiss.
> 
> What does this guy's wife think about all this? What has her reaction been?
> 
> Have you ever checked her phone and email to see if there was anything suspicious?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time to nut up and do some c0ckblocking.
Let his wife know and that you won't tolerate this anymore.


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## tulsy

He's flirting with her. It's inappropriate. She knows it, and is playing dumb.


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## turnera

Your wife wants a strong husband. She's testing you to see if you even give a damn. (my bet is she thinks not) Show her you do. Tell him to back the hell off your wife.


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## Omego

Not the real me said:


> Thanks.
> Am I being paranoid or is there no smoke without fire?


You are not being paranoid. Your wife is attracted to the other guy and is not considering your feelings at all. Unfortunately, this means that she is losing/has lost her attraction to you. She's taking you for granted. This could all be temporary and it is possible to change things in your favor.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I'm telling you the truth as I see it from a woman's perspective.

In order to nip this in the bud before things get out of hand, you're just going to have to put your foot down. No more outings with this guy and if she insists or does anything else inappropriate, tell her she can go be with him. This does not mean you have to divorce or anything drastic like that! You just have to mean what you say when you say it. Tell her fine, she wants to be disrespectful, that's her choice, but that you're not going to put up with it.


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## Not the real me

Overwhelmed by the instant support already.


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## brendanoco

why havent you told him to back the fu*k off.

The guy is tying it on with your wife stop being a nice guy.

so you witness your wife kiss another guy tell him she loves him and your response was to do.....nothing???


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## Graywolf2

At the very least the OM finds your wife attractive and she enjoys his attention. 

You have already confronted and let her know that his behavior makes you uncomfortable. This doesn’t seem to matter to her. This could be because she knows that it’s innocent or because she knows that she can handle you. 

If you keep confronting without evidence, she will just keep saying that you’re crazy and overreacting. Act like everything is fine and collect evidence (again it may be nothing). There are quite a few people that post here that can offer advice on how to do that. One of them is weightlifter. 

Again do not confront again without evidence. They may not be doing anything at all except at these social occasions. If I were a betting man I would bet that the OM was following her upstairs for a feel of that generous cleavage and a kiss.


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## Jellybeans

Yeswecan said:


> What I'm getting from your post is your wife is more than likely innocent.


Kissing someone full-on on the lips and telling them "I love you" while hanging out with your husband is NOT innocent.


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## Not the real me

Nice to get a womans perspective on things. I have always been a nice guy and 27 years together says that that was enough for her. Mid life crisis? She's 43, I'm 44. I've given her the benefit of the doubt as I know we can all do things we regret when drunk. But I found this forum looking for answers just after it happened and was convinced I was making more of it then there was. 
It is doing my head in now though because the only answers I get from her is that she doesn't know why she did it and she cant remember what was said.


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## raven3321

Jellybeans said:


> Highly inappropriate. All of it,.
> 
> My question is why haven't you done something about it? Have you ever even called him out on it? You should have done it RIGHT THERE. And in front of his wife.


My sentiments exactly. He would have heard about it the first time he said or did anything toward her. Maybe it's a cultural thing but since when is kissing someone other than your spouse OK?

I also agree that this is the tip of the iceberg. Something else is going on. The reason is her....not him. My question is why is she "not" uncomfortable with this? Women tend to pick up subtle clues far more easily then men. The fact is she's enjoying it. If you read here, you'll see that in almost every scenario when the spouse confronts something "off", the offending spouse says it's nothing. She knows enough now to know you're not happy with her comfort level around him yet still allows it. Why? Because she wants to be around him. 

What is the other wife's posture through all this? You should talk with her. I'm sure she's noticed. She may be able to shed some light on what's going on. Do be proactive though. Better you make a big deal on the cusp of an affair and be wrong, than on the tail end of one being right.


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## Jellybeans

I am a woman. And I am telling you, this is BAD news. If you don't put a stop to this it is going to end up in an affair. It has already crossed a million boundaries. She enjoys the attention. He clearly wants to bang your wife. 

Call him out.


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## ReidWright

Yeswecan said:


> Sorry to see this happening. What I'm getting from your post is your wife is more than likely innocent. She is trying to keep it at a distance as you describe at the race track event. Your "friend" however is using the full court press on your wife.



uh...sounds like she was the one doing the kissing. She ain't no angel in this.


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## brendanoco

Not the real me said:


> Nice to get a womans perspective on things. I have always been a nice guy and 27 years together says that that was enough for her. Mid life crisis? She's 43, I'm 44. I've given her the benefit of the doubt as I know we can all do things we regret when drunk. But I found this forum looking for answers just after it happened and was convinced I was making more of it then there was.
> It is doing my head in now though because the only answers I get from her is that she doesn't know why she did it and she cant remember what was said.


read no more mr nice guy and also athol kays married man sex life primer.

Tell the OM to back the fu*k off he is trying to fu*k your wife.
Tell your wife to get her sh*t together and stop disrespecting you.


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## Yeswecan

Jellybeans said:


> Kissing someone full-on on the lips and telling them "I love you" while hanging out with your husband is NOT innocent.


I was referring to the race track outing where she kept her distance. 

However, you are correct. But, not knowing the W personally, perhaps this was normal to her. She is naive! 

I can say with certainty my wife would not kiss another on the mouth. She would scold me if I did. "You don't know where that mouth has been!!!" She would say!


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## Jellybeans

brendanoco said:


> Tell the OM to back the fu*k off he is trying to fu*k your wife.
> Tell your wife to get her sh*t together and stop disrespecting you.


Today.


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## Not the real me

She says the "I love you too" response was to something he said and was supposed to be in a sarcastic quirky way, yet she cant recall what he said to her....hmmm
I ain't stupid, most of what you guys are replying I have already thought.
She has the support of her sister, until now I have told no one apart from her, how I have been feeling.


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## Yeswecan

ReidWright said:


> uh...sounds like she was the one doing the kissing. She ain't no angel in this.


Referencing the racetrack behavior. Not the kissing incident.


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## Yeswecan

Jellybeans said:


> I am a woman. And I am telling you, this is BAD news. If you don't put a stop to this it is going to end up in an affair. It has already crossed a million boundaries. She enjoys the attention. He clearly wants to bang your wife.
> 
> Call him out.


:iagree:


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## brendanoco

Not the real me said:


> She says the "I love you too" response was to something he said and was supposed to be in a sarcastic quirky way, yet she cant recall what he said to her....hmmm
> I ain't stupid, most of what you guys are replying I have already thought.
> She has the support of her sister, until now I have told no one apart from her, how I have been feeling.


any kids??

You need to nip this in the bud or else you will be back in a couple of months complaining about your wife fu*king your friend

she kissed another man on the lips in front of you. 
She has ZERO respect for your feelings

time to alpha up and mate guard your wife


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## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> She says the "I love you too" response was to something he said and was supposed to be in a sarcastic quirky way, yet she cant recall what he said to her....hmmm
> I ain't stupid, most of what you guys are replying I have already thought.
> She has the support of her sister, until now I have told no one apart from her, how I have been feeling.


Again, not sure of what transpired with the kiss. The racetrack behavior after you spoke with your wife(being distant. short answers to OM) indicates she understands your feelings. However, the OM needs to get a clue and back off. He is after you wife.


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## 6301

What's this guys wife doing while this is going on? Is he married?

Maybe it's time you send them both a message and let your wife know that this crap ends now unless she wants a ton of trouble and then you tell the guy that he's overstepping big time and he better take a few steps back starting now.

Now after you did that, your gave both them the warning shot and now if your wife has a brain in her head she'll know that your not playing games so now it's up to her and if she values the marriage she'll stop and if it continues or she tells you that your crazy then there might be more that you don't know about.


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## PhillyGuy13

The breadstick/kissing incident could be chalked up to silly reindeer games. Highly inappropriate. Ever since then he's had the hots for your wife. Probably from before then, which is how they got "partnered" for the breadsticks to begin with.

Your wife has boundary issues; coupled with alcohol issues she is skating a thin line.

I'll ask again - have you looked at any email, phone records, texts, etc.

And again - how does this guys wife react to all this? Have you ever discussed it with her?

What is the "dynamic" with them? Meaning, how did the friendship with this couple evolve? Girls were long time friends, one of them is a coworker...?

Bottom line- they can't be friends going forward.

ETA: I stopped playing kissing games shortly after college. You guys are in your 40s?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Not the real me

She knows how I feel. She has agreed to no contact and we never have to see them again. I said nothing at the time as I was shocked by it and not normally a jealous person. His wife was with us on the night out but she must have missed tor ignored the kiss. My wife says it was a friendly peck. I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.


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## tulsy

You sit there and let it happen, time after time, which sends the "green light" for them to continue, which they have been doing. 

Should have blown this up the first time it happened. Where are your boundaries?


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## Not the real me

I can't swear that the breadstick game saw her partnered with him as I wasn't in the same room. I haven't checked any emails or texts as until that point I trusted her 100%


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## Big Tree

PhillyGuy13 said:


> ETA: I stopped playing kissing games shortly after college. You guys are in your 40s?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


...and the point of kissing games in college was? Getting laid.


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## brendanoco

do you have access to phone records??? her phone??? facebook???

You want to make sure nothing else is going on


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## brendanoco

Not the real me said:


> I can't swear that the breadstick game saw her partnered with him as I wasn't in the same room. I haven't checked any emails or texts as until that point I trusted her 100%


Trust.......but verify


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## Jellybeans

Not the real me said:


> My wife says it was a friendly peck. I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.


Classic deflection.

You need to stand up for your marriage.


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## Cubby

Your gut feeling is telling you there's more than what your wife is admitting. Your gut feeling is rarely wrong. 

First task for you to do right now: 1. Quietly look at cell phone records, texts, emails, facebook, etc. 

Even if you don't find anything you have to stand up and be firm and let your wife know you won't tolerate any more displays of affection from this guy.

Your wife is enjoying the attention way too much. I've seen a couple of neighbors being too friendly with each other's spouses and it never ends well. This one won't end well either if you don't put a stop to it.

And by the way, your wife will be more attracted to you if you stand up and be the guy who doesn't tolerate this kind of behavior from your wife and "friend."


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## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> 1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.
> 
> We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years.
> 
> *So you are not children.*
> 
> About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen.
> *
> Wow. A long time ago.*
> 
> Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle.
> 
> *This is a game for adolescents who are trying to contrive to break down barriers. A childish sexy game.*
> 
> I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife.
> 
> She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry".
> 
> *I would have challenged him right there. My guess is there is much drinking in all of this. Not an excuse.*
> 
> I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife.
> 
> *Has nothing to do with jealousy mate. Has to do with respect and boundaries.*
> 
> Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye.
> 
> *Depends on the hug. Your inference is clear though. You can give someone a hug without feeling up their breasts.* *Your wife can control this and should.*
> 
> Again I don't make a fuss
> 
> *This is major part of your issue. Conflict avoidance.*
> 
> but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it.
> 
> *This is on you then.* *She should cool it with this guy. Not just because it may or may not be inappropriate but because it makes you uncomfortable. You should have sat down with her and defined better boundaries right after the breadstick stuff. Actually before but it is what it is. maybe some drinking issues here.*
> 
> Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself".
> 
> *He is not a friend. While this could be an innocent comment your real disconnect is with your wife. Hard to tell if you are just triggering or what.*
> 
> By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down.
> 
> *Ok, so lets chalk this up to a gut feeling.*
> 
> Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".
> *
> Okay so she has horrible boundaries. Just from the other information I would have suggested that you do His Needs Her Needs together and set better boundaries. But this would be a serious problem for me.* *But this was in freaking May!!!
> *
> I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room.
> 
> *I would have left with her and told her that we were leaving and that we would need to discuss this further. *
> 
> (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too.
> 
> *Again, no biggie for me as I am with my wife and we are getting ready to leave.*
> 
> In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her.
> 
> *This is crazy. How could you not go ballistic over this and separate those two?*
> 
> Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up.
> 
> *She denies kissing him? Wow. I would forget having married her.*
> 
> This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them.
> *
> This is starting to sound like a hotwife story BTW. No way would we be going to that after what she did.*
> 
> Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go.
> 
> *Why would anyone swallow their self respect. Nothing wrong with pride. False pride is something else. Self respect is not something one gives up without destroying their integrity.*
> 
> She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
> 
> *Actually she is the problem.*
> 
> Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before.
> 
> *Contrived. While in and of it self not a big deal to most people, I think they are rubbing your face in it. You should be concerned what happens when you are not around. I am prepared for the bait and switch here BTW.*
> 
> I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things.
> We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve.
> 
> *No this is all suggestive and you out up with it.*
> 
> So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with.
> Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


I would do more research but I would start cutting those friends from my life. 

Give us some more background. Children? previous affairs? Does she work? Do they have contact with each other beyond this stuff?

This is not something for you to let go. It does not mean they are banging one another. It does mean to me they have gotten a bit too free with one another. I would have major problem with her full on kiss.


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## Not the real me

We have 2 kids who are my world. Right now we are in a bit of cease fire but trying to work through it. I aren't giving her reason to think I have forgotten but I am trying to move forward. She knows exactly how I feel about things. She is adamant she has done nothing fundamentally wrong and even said that the way I was behaving you would think she had been having a full blown affair. We have known them as a couple since 1988 when he worked at a place next to where I worked. He once mentioned about her making him sandwiches with extra fillings in when she worked in a bakers back then, so I think he has had a fondness for her for a long time. But while it was never reciprocated I wasn't worried as I did trust her. As an aside to the comment about the having a feel of ample cleavage, is it relevant to add that his wife maybe isn't as well equipped in that department.


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## Marduk

Here's what I would tell a buddy to do:

Step 1: take the dude for a beer and tell him in no uncertain terms that if he touches your wife again, makes a comment, or even looks at her funny, he's going to have an uncomfortable situation on his hands. Shake his hand, inform him that he's no friend of yours or your wife's, and walk away.

Step 2: Inform your wife that this is intolerable behaviour, and if she wants to continue it, she can do so without being married. This is not unreasonable, and is a yes or no answer. Do not go down the stupid path of "what exactly am I allowed to do" because it's childish. She knows it's intolerable behaviour, she's testing your boundaries, either as a giant **** test or she wants to know if she can get away ****ing other dudes. If it's a test, you have to pass it. If it's the latter, you have to eject her.

If these two steps don't work, proceed to Step 3:

Act like her to other women and see how she responds. If she gets mad, she was just testing you. If she doesn't, she either wants an open marriage or wants out.


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## Cubby

tulsy said:


> You sit there and let it happen, time after time, which sends the "green light" for them to continue, which they have been doing.
> 
> Should have blown this up the first time it happened. Where are your boundaries?


.....which makes him appear weak in the eyes of his wife. Weak = unattractive. Meanwhile the friend is fearlessly grabbing what he wants, which to your wife's limbic part of her brain, is appealing to her.


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## brendanoco

whats your sex life like??

again do you have access to phone records??? facebook etc.......


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## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> Nice to get a womans perspective on things. I have always been a nice guy and 27 years together says that that was enough for her. Mid life crisis? She's 43, I'm 44. I've given her the benefit of the doubt as I know we can all do things we regret when drunk. But I found this forum looking for answers just after it happened and was convinced I was making more of it then there was.
> It is doing my head in now though because the only answers I get from her is that she doesn't know why she did it and she cant remember what was said.


Success is never final.

She finds you a tad boring and this guy attractive. She is being validated by this other guy. He is not afraid to pursue her i front of you. You do nothing but whine a bit. Not attractive.

This is destroying your marriage even if they are not yet having sex.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Big Tree said:


> ...and the point of kissing games in college was? Getting laid.


Yup. Though 9 times out of 10 I went home empty handed. 

OP- I meant you need to check the email and phone records NOW; didn't mean did you check them years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> She knows how I feel. She has agreed to no contact and we never have to see them again. I said nothing at the time as I was shocked by it and not normally a jealous person. His wife was with us on the night out but she must have missed tor ignored the kiss. My wife says it was a friendly peck. I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.


Quite possible a friendly peck but those go on the cheek. OM possibly pressed the issue on that particular day? I would say so. The events following this indicate the OM pushing the envelope. The W behavior at the racetrack being short with the OM is a good sign IMO. Whatever the case, the friendship needs to end.


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> She says the "I love you too" response was to something he said and was supposed to be in a sarcastic quirky way, yet she cant recall what he said to her....hmmm
> I ain't stupid, most of what you guys are replying I have already thought.
> She has the support of her sister, until now I have told no one apart from her, how I have been feeling.


This reminds me of the PT thread. Where ths OP took what we were saying and bounced it off a wife that just kept denying. A common scenario no doubt but kinda the same thing. This one has the wife actually kissing him fill on.

This is not something I would put up with at all. 

You should have confronted her that evening. Waiting like this is very weak and plays into ... I don't remember. But what you saw was enough. That is not just inappropriate but unfaithful to me. Perhaps she should stop drinking. A woman kissing me like this is pursing me.


----------



## Yeswecan

Entropy3000 said:


> A woman kissing me like this is pursing me.


Or perhaps testing the waters as it were?


----------



## 2xloser

What I think happened: During the breadstick game, buzzed and semi-accidentally a little kiss happened, just a tad too long lingering. They both got a taste of something electric, forbidden, sexy, erotically stimulating, and both know it happened. 

He wouldn't let it go, because he has the hots for her. So he continues to let it be known, to her, that he's open, willing, and available for more forbidden fruit. 

She enjoys the attention, and the fantasy of "more". Dangerous slippery slope, because she doesn't have her own boundaries set correctly, and not only allows his advances, she has her own inappropriate 'responses'.

You do nothing about it, for fear of... coming across as insecure? alienating the friendship circle? Causing an uncomfortable scene or an argument? And neither does his wife... no way she's not seeing it and feeling it as well. And by keeping the games public, they are able to claim it as being "nothing".

But the worst part is neither of them respects you enough to stop themselves, partially driven by you not standing up for yourself and your marriage. 

As far as "nipping it in the bud", it's already too late for that. AFTER you place a VAR in her car and get access to phone, email, FB, etc. THEN you draw a line telling her that you love her and are committed to the marriage, but you don't care if it is incorrect, you will not be disrespected the way he & she have done. She will either respect your needs for at least the perception if not the reality, and that the very next time there is the hint of impropriety, she will shut it down immediately or you will blow it up right then and there. She will either partner with you in this, or you've got bigger issues -- so she must choose.

Then continue to monitor diligently. She will either recognize she's crossed a line and correct herself AND him should he be inappropriate again, or she will contact him tipping him off that you're on to them.

I had a "friend" like this. I even called it out to my stbx, jokingly mentioned "if you gave him half the chance, he'd jump at sleeping with you and never feel an ounce of guilt." She denied it, called him harmless, blah blah blah. 
He was the OM. Turns out things like being their house New Year's Eve, just the 4 of us and the kids uostairs sleeping, he's chasing her around whenever she leaves the room I am in, playing around trying to cop a feel or steal a kiss... and she was playing right along.

Be passive at your peril. Your gut knows.


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> She knows how I feel. She has agreed to no contact and we never have to see them again. I said nothing at the time as I was shocked by it and not normally a jealous person. His wife was with us on the night out but she must have missed tor ignored the kiss. My wife says it was a friendly peck. I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.


Ok, lets nip this jealous word that you stumble on in the bud.

Jealousy : being jealous is an emotion. Not good and not bad. In your case you should be jealous. You wife is kissing and pursuing another man.

Insecure : You should feel insecure right now in your marriage. It is under siege and showing cracks from within.

Controlling : Doing this step is controlling what you will accept.


I threw the others in because they often appear together from folks.


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> I can't swear that the breadstick game saw her partnered with him as I wasn't in the same room. I haven't checked any emails or texts as until that point I trusted her 100%


Not sure it matters if it was him or anyone else. Highly inappropriate for a married woman.


----------



## chillymorn

give the dude a call ask him to meet you for beers. when you meet tell him in not uncertine terms that the next time he even talks to her you will kick his fvcking teeth in.

then check the phone records if he calls her or if she brings it up then you know they have been buddies for awhile...........and by buddies I mean fvck buddies.


----------



## Yeswecan

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok, lets nip this jealous word that you stumble on in the bud.
> 
> Jealousy : being jealous is an emotion. Not good and not bad. In your case you should be jealous. You wife is kissing and pursuing another man.
> 
> Insecure : You should feel insecure right now in your marriage. It is under siege and showing cracks from within.
> 
> Controlling : Doing this step is controlling what you will accept.
> 
> 
> I threw the others in because they often appear together fro folks.


OP feels marriage is threatened as well. Rightly so!


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> We have 2 kids who are my world. Right now we are in a bit of cease fire but trying to work through it. I aren't giving her reason to think I have forgotten but I am trying to move forward. She knows exactly how I feel about things. She is adamant she has done nothing fundamentally wrong and even said that the way I was behaving you would think she had been having a full blown affair. We have known them as a couple since 1988 when he worked at a place next to where I worked. He once mentioned about her making him sandwiches with extra fillings in when she worked in a bakers back then, so I think he has had a fondness for her for a long time. But while it was never reciprocated I wasn't worried as I did trust her. As an aside to the comment about the having a feel of ample cleavage, is it relevant to add that his wife maybe isn't as well equipped in that department.


Do not rug sweep this. Do His Needs Her Needs together. Agree upon boundaries. Do not agree to boundaries you are not truly comfortable with.

How old are the children?

His wife's breasts are irrelevant here. This does not make his comment appropriate. In fact him demeaning his own wife is worse.

The breadstick thing was four years ago. Anyway, their relationship could be more inappropriate than you know.


----------



## Not the real me

I can understand to a degree the desire to have some excitement in your life after twenty odd years of marriage. If she had been open and said it was for the excitement factor I could have at least made sense of it. It's the not being able to remember that sticks in my throat. I can't monitor future times together as I have put my foot down and told her total non contact with them. I like the idea of taking him for a beer and putting him on his arse.


----------



## Omego

Entropy3000 said:


> Not sure it matters if it was him or anyone else. Highly inappropriate for a married woman.


It's so true. And it's not being dull, or a "stick in the mud", or uptight, or a prude by showing some respect for oneself as another man's wife! I get hit on a lot, mostly in subtle ways: the flirtatious joke here or there, the amorous looks, etc. and I just shut it down. I can tell my H notices sometimes, and I can sometimes see that he is irritated so I just kill it. And it's all pretty harmless, nothing near what the OP's wife is letting happen.

It's not only disrespectful to one's husband but also to oneself to indulge in this kind of behavior.


----------



## turnera

Not the real me said:


> Nice to get a womans perspective on things. I have always been a nice guy and 27 years together says that that was enough for her. Mid life crisis? She's 43, I'm 44. I've given her the benefit of the doubt as I know we can all do things we regret when drunk. But I found this forum looking for answers just after it happened and was convinced I was making more of it then there was.
> It is doing my head in now though because the only answers I get from her is that she doesn't know why she did it and she cant remember what was said.


From a woman's perspective, believe her (but also keep an eye open). BUT also take the time to go see your 'friend' and let him know he's crossed the line and you want him to stay the hell away from your wife. He'll understand. And if he doesn't, then you have permission to wipe his smile off his face the next time he tries something. Let her see you protecting your family calmly, logically, and without anger.


----------



## Entropy3000

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Yup. Though 9 times out of 10 I went home empty handed.
> 
> OP- I meant you need to check the email and phone records NOW; didn't mean did you check them years ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


10% works.


----------



## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> We have 2 kids who are my world. Right now we are in a bit of cease fire but trying to work through it. I aren't giving her reason to think I have forgotten but I am trying to move forward. She knows exactly how I feel about things. She is adamant she has done nothing fundamentally wrong and even said that the way I was behaving you would think she had been having a full blown affair. We have known them as a couple since 1988 when he worked at a place next to where I worked. He once mentioned about her making him sandwiches with extra fillings in when she worked in a bakers back then, so I think he has had a fondness for her for a long time. But while it was never reciprocated I wasn't worried as I did trust her. As an aside to the comment about the having a feel of ample cleavage, is it relevant to add that his wife maybe isn't as well equipped in that department.


In her mind she may not have done something wrong. Outside looking in she has on some level. However, I believe the OM is pressuring your W. Perhaps a few things have crossed her mind concerning OM. OM appears to be infatuated with your W. Your W sees this and brushes it under the carpet or she really is in dark over it. 

As for cleavage, the OM W was demeaned by this offhanded comment to your W. Truth be told sir, the OM is a dirt bag in my book.


----------



## Omego

Not the real me said:


> I can understand to a degree the desire to have some excitement in your life after twenty odd years of marriage.


Sure, but you're right. Enough excitement for now!


----------



## Welsh15

No way I would put up with that. You need to tell his wife that he is hitting on your wife, and then man-up and tell him to back the F off from even talking to your wife or you are going to have a serious problem with him. Act a little more alpha and less beta here. She is testing you here. Read the MMSLP.


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> I can understand to a degree the desire to have some excitement in your life after twenty odd years of marriage. If she had been open and said it was for the excitement factor I could have at least made sense of it. It's the not being able to remember that sticks in my throat. I can't monitor future times together as I have put my foot down and told her total non contact with them. I like the idea of taking him for a beer and putting him on his arse.


Ok so you are starting to make excuses for her behavior. The bait and switch I mentioned above.

Basically this is you feeling inadequate and so on. 

I do not see any good in taking him for a beer. That smacks of please do not bang my wife. I do not think you need to warn him at all. What is the point. His wife is pursuing him. So you threaten him. Be ready to back it up. Is this what you want? No, treat him like the OM he is.

Cut them from your life. I would not want a beer with this guy. If your wife breaks contact she is the issue. Action not words.


----------



## Cubby

I forgot who it was here, (BFF?) but about two years ago, a poster noticed his best friend and his wife sharing some exchanges that made him wonder if there was more going on. Like his wife asking for a sip of the guy's coke and using his straw. Her conduct was way too comfortable around him. After digging, he found it was an ongoing full-blown affair.

Trust your gut.....


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I feel like I am going around in circles. Best to bow out now.

Good luck man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Not the real me said:


> I can understand to a degree the desire to have some excitement in your life after twenty odd years of marriage. If she had been open and said it was for the excitement factor I could have at least made sense of it. It's the not being able to remember that sticks in my throat. I can't monitor future times together as I have put my foot down and told her total non contact with them. *I like the idea of taking him for a beer and putting him on his arse.*


then do it...BUT FOR GODS SAKE.....DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE AHEAD OF TIME!! Just do it.

And when she challenges you on it...AFTER....Tell her...He was pushing on you too much...as your husband and a man I needed to do something.

Don't apologize and don't say it was a mistake. Simply say, if better boundaries were adhered to along the way, we all wouldn't be here.


----------



## Omego

Cubby said:


> I forgot who it was here, (BFF?) but about two years ago, a poster noticed his best friend and his wife sharing some exchanges that made him wonder if there was more going on. Like his wife asking for a sip of the guy's coke and using his straw. Her conduct was way too comfortable around him. After digging, he found it was an ongoing full-blown affair.
> 
> Trust your gut.....


I remember that story. Unbelievable. He just let it happen until one day, he didn't anymore.


----------



## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> I can understand to a degree the desire to have some excitement in your life after twenty odd years of marriage. If she had been open and said it was for the excitement factor I could have at least made sense of it. It's the not being able to remember that sticks in my throat. I can't monitor future times together as I have put my foot down and told her total non contact with them. I like the idea of taking him for a beer and putting him on his arse.


Excitement sir would be going on a rollercoaster at the amusement park. Not play spin the breadstick at party. There is no sense or logic to your statement that this would make sense if she was looking for excitement. 

Take him for a beer? Don't feed and water the enemy. You can squish this in less than a minute. Save your money.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dad&Hubby said:


> then do it...BUT FOR GODS SAKE.....DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE AHEAD OF TIME!! Just do it.
> 
> And when she challenges you on it...AFTER....Tell her...He was pushing on you too much...as your husband and a man I needed to do something.
> 
> Don't apologize and don't say it was a mistake. Simply say, if better boundaries were adhered to along the way, we all wouldn't be here.


IF he does this. He needs to understand the dangers. 

The worst outcome is for the hubby to get gasligthed and for him to buy into it. That along with please do not take my wife from me. 

Decking the guy is not the worst thing. Getting beat up by him is less than fruitful. So do not go into this weak. Nothing in the OPs demeanor shows me he is ready for this. But we can agree that he needs to break this up.

Now if the story goes down the road where he feels his wife needs some excitement I am throwing the red flag. He just needs to make sure there is NC. No mention of other contact. Like FB or so on. What does hsi wife do with her time. What job does she have now? Just unclear.


----------



## Not the real me

Kids are 17 and 12. And she has denied wanting any outside excitement. Sorry to be a little dim but what is gaslighted? Like I said, I am new to all this.


----------



## Omego

Entropy3000 said:


> The worst outcome is for the hubby to get gasligthed and for him to buy into it. That along with please do not take my wife from me.


Exactly. It makes him look weak. The OP should just ignore the guy and deal with the source of the problem: his wife. She doesn't need to accept the other guy's advances. Her behavior is the problem.


----------



## Entropy3000

Omego said:


> Exactly. It makes him look weak. The OP should just ignore the guy and deal with the source of the problem: his wife. She doesn't need to accept the other guy's advances. Her behavior is the problem.


Right. Now I am all for holding both accountable, but his focus should be on his wife. IF the OM starts pursuing further then he takes action. Not over a beer either.


----------



## Not the real me

Ok . point taken. No beer, just didn't want to seem like I wasn't confronting this head on. I am happy with no contact. time will tell whether my wife feels the same. She has the chance to save this. I aren't giving up on a lifetime relationship. But she needs to start talking to me. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Yeswecan

Omego said:


> Exactly. It makes him look weak. The OP should just ignore the guy and deal with the source of the problem: his wife. She doesn't need to accept the other guy's advances. Her behavior is the problem.


Quite possible W does not know how to address the OM advances?


----------



## italianjob

I think you better do some investigation work, before you do anything else.
I'm not sure if this is just some inappropriate behaviour, or if it represents the tip of a very ugly iceberg.

The "behave yourself" comment is very worrying.
In the more "innocent" scenario it means she probably mentioned to him the fact that you've been calling her out on their behaviour (and that is VERY disrespectful).
It may also mean "don't give us away" and in this case it may mean that there's already a full blown affair going on.


----------



## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> Ok . point taken. No beer, just didn't want to seem like I wasn't confronting this head on. I am happy with no contact. time will tell whether my wife feels the same. She has the chance to save this. I aren't giving up on a lifetime relationship. But she needs to start talking to me. I'll keep you posted.


Please do. In the meantime, investigate emails, text or FB contact. I suspect the OM is capable of anything as he is very willing to drop innuendo with you present. Doing this reeks of having no respect for you.


----------



## brendanoco

yes 

check and make sure this isint just the tip of the ice berg


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> Ok . point taken. No beer, just didn't want to seem like I wasn't confronting this head on. I am happy with no contact. time will tell whether my wife feels the same. She has the chance to save this. I aren't giving up on a lifetime relationship. But she needs to start talking to me. I'll keep you posted.


Not engaging this. Or rug sweeping is tantamount to giving up on this.

Engaging this head on is doing so with your wife. Being firm with solid boundaries is how you protect your investment. Sliding boundaries will destroy it. No one said to divorce her. HOWEVER, just trusting and accepting is not going to get it done. You have to have true dealbreaker boundary somewhere in this. Being manipulated because you have so much invested is a weakness unto itself. We get it. It goes with commitment. But you need to investigate further. To see how far the rabbit hole goes. You really are not sure what you are dealing with yet. Only shadows.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gaslighting


----------



## Hardtohandle

OP

Have you had any affairs ?

Does this man do this sort of thing with anyone else ?

Personally I hug and kiss my close male friends on the cheek.. I love them like brothers.. I even tell them I love you on the phone sometimes.. But that's me.. I'm an emotional guy and part Italian.

So I might put my arms around my friends wives but they know its a friendly thing.. 

I'm just wondering if he is one of those types of guys..

How is he with his own wife.. You said his wife might have not seen it. But do you think they might be swingers ? 

Hug and kiss his wife.. 

I do agree check the cell phone bill, emails, facebook messages and see if you notice anything. If notice nothing and you feel secure I would just confront him man to man without the anger. He might end up feeling like sh!t about it. Sometimes people just do stupid sh!t without thinking sometimes..


----------



## Entropy3000

They have know each other since 1988 . Not a whole lot mentioned about the years in between at all.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hardtohandle said:


> I'm just wondering if he is one of those types of guys..


Do one of those types of guys talk about married women's breast in front of the H? I suspect not.

When you are hugging and kissing on the cheek, these friends of yours, do you openly comment on their physical attributes? If one asks if would like something do you keep pressing to see what you can really get? I suspect not. That is the difference here.

He is one of "those" guys. I call them opportunists.


----------



## italianjob

Hardtohandle said:


> OP
> 
> Have you had any affairs ?
> 
> Does this man do this sort of thing with anyone else ?
> 
> *Personally I hug and kiss my close male friends on the cheek.. I love them like brothers.. I even tell them I love you on the phone sometimes.. But that's me.. I'm an emotional guy and part Italian*.
> 
> So I might put my arms around my friends wives but they know its a friendly thing..
> 
> I'm just wondering if he is one of those types of guys..
> 
> How is he with his own wife.. You said his wife might have not seen it. But do you think they might be swingers ?
> 
> Hug and kiss his wife..
> 
> I do agree check the cell phone bill, emails, facebook messages and see if you notice anything. If notice nothing and you feel secure I would just confront him man to man without the anger. He might end up feeling like sh!t about it. Sometimes people just do stupid sh!t without thinking sometimes..


I'm also an emotional guy, Fully Italian (born and living in Italy, actually) and we do hug a lot friends and friends' wives, but I assure you that you can tell the difference between a friendly hug and a "innuendo" hug. And no italian husband would let that second kind hug pass without a reaction


----------



## Graywolf2

PhillyGuy13 said:


> OP- I meant you need to check the email and phone records NOW; didn't mean did you check them years ago.


Now is the best time to check their communication because things have changed. You’re no longer attending the same functions and she may have told the OM why. 

She might send him an email to explain how silly you are because there is nothing going on. That she’s sorry that she can’t attend those functions anymore, but it’s best to humor you. Or she’s setting up other ways to meet him. Now is the time to check.


----------



## italianjob

Graywolf2 said:


> Now is the best time to check their communication because things have changed. You’re no longer attending the same functions and she may have told the OM why.
> 
> She might send him an email to explain how silly you are because there is nothing going on. That she’s sorry that she can’t attend those functions anymore, but it’s best to humor you. Or she’s setting up other ways to meet him. Now is the time to check.


Or, if they were already meeting in secret, the fact of not meeting as couples anymore may be actually good news for them... Hubby's happy because she agreed to NC, but NC is only couple to couple...


----------



## Suspecting2014

Ask her for a poly, this way you will find out waht really happened at that bar, and if ever have been anything else.

Probably niothing is gping on, but this way you will be able tolet it go.
Talk to her and set some boundaries, healty ones, just the bahve that makes you feel unconfortable.


----------



## Marduk

Yeswecan said:


> Quite possible W does not know how to address the OM advances?


She'll _say_ that she doesn't, but of course she _does_.

And don't forget -- she kissed _him_. She's the problem, he's just the solution.

Remove the solution and she'll find a new solution until you address the problem.

And the problem is that your wife either wants you to step up, or she wants to step out.


----------



## convert

italianjob said:


> Or, if they were already meeting in secret, the fact of not meeting as couples anymore may be actually good news for them... Hubby's happy because she agreed to NC, but NC is only couple to couple...


I agree and the fact she is ready to go no contact as the couples group so easy after being friends for so long ( I hope this is not a tip of the iceberg thing)


----------



## Omego

Yeswecan said:


> Quite possible W does not know how to address the OM advances?


I'm afraid that it doesn't sound that way. A 40 year old wife and mother, who is clearly outgoing and at ease with her sexuality, would know how to shut down an advance. She seems to be taking initiatives as well (grabbing the other guy's face and kissing him). 

It could be the case, of course, but I really doubt it.


----------



## thatbpguy

I'm coming in late and stopped reading after page 2 as the advice/opinions were spot on. I'd say it's 50/50 they've had sex. In other words, if thry haven't yet, they will soon.

Your worst problem is that your wife has fallen for him.

What to do?

Expose. 

How?

Were it me I'd have the other couple over for a nice dinner. Good wine, music.... Sometime after dinner, with the 4 of you around the table I'd bring it up that you have heard these specific flirtatious talk between them, their kissing, saying 'I love you' to each other.... and just ask them right there if they are giing to continue their romance underground or what. Tell them you want an answer. Afrer the denials have been spewed forth, tell him and her that the next time they have contact together they may as well do it in the open as you will file for divorce, and then show him the door. When they leave, and your wife starts in in you, get in her lying face and tell her to shut her lying wh0re face up and make up her mind between you or him- and be quick about it.


----------



## Graywolf2

weightlifter said:


> Hi. Im resident VAR Goon so here you go. VARs
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. Set bit rate to 44K or higher and sensitivity to very high or better Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off.
> 
> Put the second in whatever room he uses to talk in when you are not around.
> 
> Usual warning. If you hear another man get in the car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing sex will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You always got it from a PI or someone saw them.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality.
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> 
> Look for a new email.


----------



## chillymorn

I'm sorry .....But who would want someone that is so shallow that they feel they can flirt with the oppsite sex right under your nose. somebody you have to force to make a decission .....quit this or I'm leaving.


have more self respect for your self.

snoop and get the evidence even set them up so they feel safe and the bust them and throw her a$$ to the curb.


----------



## Rookie4

Dude, your wife and this "friend" are engaging in inappropriate conduct, and both of them are aware of it. Because you have done nothing, they probably think you don't give a sh*t, and so continue. Now that you have made an issue of it, you should see some improvement, or at least you will know if there is anything more to this than some childish flirting and innuendo. those posters advising you that they are already in an affair, and for you to kick the friends a$$, and have your wife do a poly, are overreacting , bigtime.There is plenty of time for the heavy artillery, in the future. Right now, set the boundaries for your wife and this friend, as see how things go. Butremember, say what you mean and mean what you say. Take a stand .


----------



## wmn1

Entropy3000 said:


> I would do more research but I would start cutting those friends from my life.
> 
> Give us some more background. Children? previous affairs? Does she work? Do they have contact with each other beyond this stuff?
> 
> This is not something for you to let go. It does not mean they are banging one another. It does mean to me they have gotten a bit too free with one another. I would have major problem with her full on kiss.


Outstanding response Entropy. Your advice on these forums is exceptional as always and deadly accurate


----------



## SevenYears

Your really going to have to check your wife's phone and computer. You could also check phone records. If his number keeps popping up a lot then I'd be really worried and it would be best to get a VAR.

It would be great if it turns out nothing is going on. But I've seen too many threads like this and within a few weeks it turns out the wife/husband has been having an affair for months/years.


----------



## treyvion

Not the real me said:


> 1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.
> 
> We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years. About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen. Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle. I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife. She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry". I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife. Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye. Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it. Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself". By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down. Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".
> I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her. Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up. This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them. Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go. She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
> Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before. I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things.
> We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve.
> So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with.
> Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


There is no nice response to this. The guy has been gaining ground the entire time. Part of it might have been to mess with you in the first place. The wife may have also growing some disrespect with you witnessing the closer and closer hugs, even though she could've called you an a-hole for shutting it down. 

These things are pretty nasty. You need to just go with your feelings. "Hey your going to have to back up off my wife, I think your over doing it". 

If the wife defends him, which she will likely do, you have to tell her to go to him then.

She put you into a corner allowing this to build up.


----------



## treyvion

chillymorn said:


> I'm sorry .....But who would want someone that is so shallow that they feel they can flirt with the oppsite sex right under your nose. somebody you have to force to make a decission .....quit this or I'm leaving.
> 
> 
> have more self respect for your self.
> 
> snoop and get the evidence even set them up so they feel safe and the bust them and throw her a$$ to the curb.


Your going to have to react. She will defend herself and deflect your argument, down play it. Then you have to tell her it's him or you and mean it.

They are making you a punk!


----------



## treyvion

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, your wife and this "friend" are engaging in inappropriate conduct, and both of them are aware of it. Because you have done nothing, they probably think you don't give a sh*t, and so continue. Now that you have made an issue of it, you should see some improvement, or at least you will know if there is anything more to this than some childish flirting and innuendo. those posters advising you that they are already in an affair, and for you to kick the friends a$$, and have your wife do a poly, are overreacting , bigtime.There is plenty of time for the heavy artillery, in the future. Right now, set the boundaries for your wife and this friend, as see how things go. Butremember, say what you mean and mean what you say. Take a stand .


I think whether it happens or not, you start using this fuel to motivate yourself in case you have to fight the guy. I'd just go on ahead and get prepared over the next several months and make it an excuse to improve your physical conditioning.


----------



## aug

Any reason not to get a couple of VARs (voice activated recorder)? 

Take a look at this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## Rookie4

aug said:


> Any reason not to get a couple of VARs (voice activated recorder)?
> 
> Take a look at this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


This is overreacting. This is a marriage, not a police stakeout.


----------



## treyvion

Rookie4 said:


> This is overreacting. This is a marriage, not a police stakeout.


I'm actually one for checking the actual picture out especially in this days and time. I don't think he should make it an addiction, but he should check it out.

We do it for complete peace of mind. Many times they find out the horrible truth.


----------



## chillymorn

Rookie4 said:


> This is overreacting. This is a marriage, not a police stakeout.


hope you never have to stake out YOUR marriage,


----------



## italianjob

treyvion said:


> I'm actually one for checking the actual picture out especially in this days and time. I don't think he should make it an addiction, but he should check it out.
> 
> We do it for complete peace of mind. Many times they find out the horrible truth.


Yeah, without going to extremes, I think OP should try to verify if his wife and this "friend" had the means to get in contact outside social functions and, possibly, if they did. 
Some of the episodes the OP described make me think of a shared intimacy that goes Beyond inappropriate flirting. Maybe it's just poor boundaries and childish behaviour, but I think he should dig a little...


----------



## kennethk

I noticed my wife's old BF begin "liking" her posts on FB.
I noticed her liking his.
He would post totally innocent responses on her threads.
He then posted a not so innocent post on MY thread I wrote to her for our 29th anniversary... a very romantic post i made i must say.

This pissed me off to no end. She then liked it.
I kept quite.
Next he wrote that they must get together soon.
I told her i noticed and that if he ever probed again, she had to shut him down. She said they were just friends... I knew better of the past.
I logged into her account and saw that he did the same in a PM.
She offered no response to him either time. She didn't shut him down either.
I went freakin ballistic.
BALLISTIC.

She defriended him and has behaved nicely since.

Shut her down my friend. SHUT HER DOWN HARD... before sh-t happens.

I monitor everything now.... have found nothing strange...


----------



## CardReader

I don't know in what world where any of her behaviors are acceptable or she doesn't know how to handle a guy hitting on her/making passes. 

She wouldn't be doing all of those things with him if she wasn't open or interested in more. 

The right thing for her to have done was shut it all down and then tell you that your friend was making her feel uncomfortable (and what he was trying to do) so you could address it. Then for her to tell the OM's wife of his inappropriate behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing this with other wives in your social circle. 

She clearly is entertaining the idea of doing more with your friend, if she hasn't done anything yet already.

You need to tell his wife about what's going on and team up for gathering information to verify exactly what type of thing your wife and her husband has going on.

She needs to know you wont take this lying down and there are consequences for acting this way. She'll respect you a lot more after this.


----------



## Rookie4

treyvion said:


> I'm actually one for checking the actual picture out especially in this days and time. I don't think he should make it an addiction, but he should check it out.
> 
> We do it for complete peace of mind. Many times they find out the horrible truth.


What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


----------



## treyvion

Rookie4 said:


> What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


Then he should calm his self down. All the wondering in his head needs to be put away. He can worry about this for years, starting fights, stressing, feeling bad, getting depressed, or he can prove that it's not the case.


----------



## italianjob

Rookie4 said:


> What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


He does it without taking exteme measures, with discretion and tact. If nothing emerges he may ascribe it to silly flirtation and be content with the couples' NC.
If something does emerge, he may want to go deeper.
The description the OP gave of some events doesn't really sound like mere flirtation...


----------



## Gabriel

This guy is coming off as a strong, ballsy guy. You are coming off as a scared weakling here. 

Here is what will completely reverse things for you.

Invite them out for a double date again. Be friendly. Let your wife be scared sh*tless about what you are going to do. Once you are settled at the dinner table and order your food, you get everyone's attention and tell the guy, IN FRONT OF HIS WIFE AND YOURS, that he is an a**hole, that he's been trying to get in your wife's pants for years, and who knows, maybe already has. And that you are done looking the other way, and done taking this crap. And that this is the last time you will ever see each other. 

Do it with calm, strong, slight anger, but do not lose control. Then calmly say to your wife, "XXX, it's time to go." And reach for her hand like a gentleman. Leave them with the check and food on its way.


Now, if the guy tries to stop you in the middle of your short speech, just hold up your hand emphatically and say, "I am not finished." Do that every time he tries to interrupt, which he will.

Ignore his/their pleas when you get up to leave. Pretend they are not even at the table.

My prediction is your wife will jump your bones the first chance she gets, and that she will never want to see them again.


----------



## Iver

First things first.

Discretly check for any contacts - emails/texts/facebook...check for chat apps on her phone as well. 

If you don't have access to her phone, well, then I'd start to get worried. 

Probably should read Athol Kay's MMSL as well.

The no contact rule is good - you certainly don't need to have any further interactions with this person. 

I also agree punching his lights out would be satisfying but in the real world that would not end well for you.


----------



## kennethk

If its all innocent on her part...
and she loves her husband...
she will do what he asks...
because she loves him, doesn't want to hurt him and doesn't want to lose him.

BUT she has to know how he feels and what he will and will not tolerate.

I told mine "no third party's in our marriage... period."
I meant it. She got it. But i still monitor just to keep sane. I am sure i will stop after a while. But not yet. 

My bet is that she was just "playing"... but after reading TAM for a while we all know how that ends up. Wife loses respect for husband. Wife cheats.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

I want to make one point abundantly clear. I was not advocating physical violence (although I know it came across that way...I take that on as just a poorly worded post by me), I was just responding to the fact that the OP wants to confront this "friend" and he should.

I agree with Entropy and the others who have said that this problem is with the Wife....but I know I, personally, wouldn't be able to restrain from not at least confronting the guy in this situation and making it 100% clear that he'll not see us (my wife or myself) ever again, and I'd make a point to talk to his wife as well.

Additionally, I wouldn't tell my wife I was having these conversations ahead of time.


----------



## Yeswecan

Dad&Hubby said:


> I want to make one point abundantly clear. I was not advocating physical violence (although I know it came across that way...I take that on as just a poorly worded post by me), I was just responding to the fact that the OP wants to confront this "friend" and he should.
> 
> I agree with Entropy and the others who have said that this problem is with the Wife....but I know I, personally, wouldn't be able to restrain from not at least confronting the guy in this situation and making it 100% clear that he'll not see us (my wife or myself) ever again, and I'd make a point to talk to his wife as well.
> 
> Additionally, I wouldn't tell my wife I was having these conversations ahead of time.


Between you, me and the lamp post...as soon as OM dropped that innuendo about her children never starving(in ref to her chest) he would have been confronted and left in no doubt that speaking like that to my W will never happen again.


----------



## Marduk

Yeswecan said:


> Between you, me and the lamp post...as soon as OM dropped that innuendo about her children never starving(in ref to her chest) he would have been confronted and left in no doubt that speaking like that to my W will never happen again.


My response would have been something along the lines of:

"Are you complimenting my wife's tits, or complaining about your wife's tits, I'm confused. If it's the former, thanks, I do enjoy them, especially with a side order of whipped cream and cherries. If it's the latter, take that up with your wife or your shrink. Either way, shut up about it."


----------



## Graywolf2

marduk said:


> My response would have been something along the lines of:
> 
> *"Are you complimenting my wife's tits,* or complaining about your wife's tits, I'm confused. If it's the former, thanks, *I do enjoy them, especially with a side order of whipped cream and cherries.* If it's the latter, take that up with your wife or your shrink. Either way, shut up about it."


I would limit myself to the part in bold. It's great


----------



## Chaparral

Unfotunately you are here. The thing is most people, 80%, never find out about their sposes affair. You have plenty here to investigate..Start with checking phone bills for calls and texts. There could even be burner phones.

What is your wifes schedule? Does she work? Does she go out without you for "girls nights"?

Does she keep her phone with her at all times? Is she on the computer or phone a lot? Does she hide the screen from you or change screens quickly?

If there is an affair you have already warned them to be more careful. Hopefully you will turn up nothing but rude behavior.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


You are right and I get your point. Still, it depends on the person. If my wife grabs a dudes face, kisses him full on the lips, says "I love you too," remembers the kiss, remembers it was a sarcastic response, remembers the party, but does not remember the actual COMMENT it isn't causal flirtation or innocent to me. 

Oh and the mistrust is already permeating their relationship, for the last four years, if he gets caught she'll just know how deep it ran.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are right and I get your point. Still, it depends on the person. If my wife grabs a dudes face, kisses him full on the lips, says "I love you too," remembers the kiss, remembers it was a sarcastic response, remembers the party, but does not remember the actual COMMENT it isn't causal flirtation or innocent to me.
> 
> Oh and the mistrust is already permeating their relationship, for the last four years, if he gets caught she'll just know how deep it ran.


Yes, that whole kiss thing reeks. I agree. what I'm saying is that the OP needs to ...stop... have a heart to heart with his wife......, set the new boundaries... . then enforce them. If after that, the inappropriate behavior continues...escalate. It's better to start slow and build than it is to take actions that cannot be un-taken.


----------



## weightlifter

Do the basic look around before buying video and VARS. Check email, fb, texts etc.


----------



## Q tip

Damn damn damn

Where has all the testosterone gone

Dude, read MMSLP an grow a pair. Such a simple fix to a sophomoric problem. 

Married man sex life primer 2011 by Athol Kay

Will explain you and the situation. A great read for all men married or single. 
Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> This is overreacting. *This is a marriage*, not a police stakeout.


Maybe someone needs to inform his wife of that.


----------



## MattMatt

This happened in a pub, locally. 

The result was a very nasty fight. So your wife's OM got off very lightly.

He and she disrespected you. What will you do?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> Yes, that whole kiss thing reeks. I agree. what I'm saying is that the OP needs to ...stop... have a heart to heart with his wife......,


Well, he did have a heart to heart with his wife and they set a No Contact boundary.



> set the new boundaries... . then enforce them.


 Sorry, I get what you are saying for a first time offense. The boundary was set, she still took the birthday kiss and to her husband her reaction was inappropriate. Sorry, I'm not going to continue resetting the line so, a person can inch over it again. Consequences are me voicing my displeasure, getting VARS, checking emails and going over text/phone records with you. Then we might have a boundary talk, if it is "innocent" per your earlier example.



> It's better to start slow and build than it is to take actions that cannot be un-taken.


I agree, but just like your previous point, two separate kisses cannot be unseen or "un-taken." Four years of talking is pretty dang slow IMO.


----------



## TRy

Yeswecan said:


> Quite possible W does not know how to address the OM advances?


 According the the OP in post #1 of this thread, based on something the other man (OM) said, "out of the blue" the OP's wife "full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too"". Based this why are you talking as if it was the OM that made the "advances", when it was clearly the wife? This is not a matter of the wife needing to learn how to address inappropriate advances by the OM. This is a simple case of the OP's wife needing to stop initiating inappropriate behavior with the OM. Kissing games with other men in the kitchen, and she thinks that is OK? Are you kidding me?


----------



## workindad

Not the real me said:


> She knows how I feel. She has agreed to no contact and we never have to see them again. I said nothing at the time as I was shocked by it and not normally a jealous person. His wife was with us on the night out but she must have missed tor ignored the kiss. My wife says it was a friendly peck. I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.



You backed off because of this? No way.

Your wife is not as naive as she is pretending to be. That is a significant concern as this could go much deeper than you think.


----------



## Turin74

*Re: Re: Wife kissed a "friend" in front of me*

This. I didn't read all the posts (so this probably got addressed) but:

Yes you are a wimp. Sorry. Not an insult but as a matter of fact. 
Even giving all benefit of doubt to your wife and so called friend and assuming nothing is going on (which I don't think is the case at all IMHO) I bet something already clicked in your wife's brain (and this is not good for you bro). So eventually she will go for "real man", this guy or not (she probably did). 

Alternative view. A drunk gropes your wife in the crowd. You just say 'let's ignore him and go home'. Is that ok for you? Will your wife respect you - even if 'let's ignore him' comes from her. I don't think so. 


turnera said:


> Your wife wants a strong husband. She's testing you to see if you even give a damn. (my bet is she thinks not) Show her you do. Tell him to back the hell off your wife.


----------



## MattMatt

Turin74 said:


> This. I didn't read all the posts (so this probably got addressed) but:
> 
> Yes you are a wimp. Sorry. Not an insult but as a matter of fact.
> Even giving all benefit of doubt to your wife and so called friend and assuming nothing is going on (which I don't think is the case at all IMHO) I bet something already clicked in your wife's brain (and this is not good for you bro). So eventually she will go for "real man", this guy or not (she probably did).
> 
> Alternative view. A drunk gropes your wife in the crowd. You just say 'let's ignore him and go home'. Is that ok for you? Will your wife respect you - even if 'let's ignore him' comes from her. I don't think so.


I have a friend who reacted with one just punch when a drunk touched his wife.

Sadly, that one punch sent him to jail for manslaughter for several years, as the drunk smashed his head on the kerbstone and died.


----------



## Turin74

*Re: Re: Wife kissed a "friend" in front of me*

1st, I didn't suggested going physical as the only option. F.. Off my wife would suffice. 
2nd you just need to know where/how to punch...  BTW low kick to certain parts of the leg is very painful and is not easy to spot in the crowd  not suggesting, just a theory so I don't get banned
3rd, ok your suggestion? 


MattMatt said:


> I have a friend who reacted with one just punch when a drunk touched his wife.
> 
> Sadly, that one punch sent him to jail for manslaughter for several years, as the drunk smashed his head on the kerbstone and died.


----------



## Chaparral

MattMatt said:


> I have a friend who reacted with one just punch when a drunk touched his wife.
> 
> Sadly, that one punch sent him to jail for manslaughter for several years, as the drunk smashed his head on the kerbstone and died.


That's because the laws have tried to make men docile.

In any event he did the right thing. All of life is about playing the odds.


----------



## Rottdad42

Seen this before. Here is a wake up. Why don't you just start talking to his wife wife, the way he is with yours. See if he likes it. This is BS man, there is no way in he!! I would allow any of that. Back of numbnutz, plain and simple. He's pushed those friendship boundaries way out of bounds man. Puff up, tell him what needs to be said. Then have a talk with your wife and let her know what she is doing, aint right either. Boom! Easy for me to say, no it won't be easy, but it's necessary. Good luck.


----------



## Chaparral

The worst part is she doesn't know who or how many she kissed playing eat the tongue out of the breadstick. That's totally BS.

She doesn't know what the OM said to get her to kiss him on the lips.......Double BS.

She may not be having an affair but she lies like a rug. That's worth an all out investigation.

Oh yeah, and OM jumped up to go to the bathroom upstairs with her. Cough cough shakes head in disgust.


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, that poster that noticed his wife being friendly with his best friend mentioned earlier? They had been having an affair for six years. He dumped her and the two of them are still together living partially on his alimony money,


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MattMatt said:


> I have a friend who reacted with one just punch when a drunk touched his wife.
> 
> Sadly, that one punch sent him to jail for manslaughter for several years, as the drunk smashed his head on the kerbstone and died.


Tragic, but nowhere in his post did he say resort to violence. There are a myriad of ways to make it known "hands off" without throwing a punch. The real problem is he didn't pack up, embarrass the dude and then have one of those "come to Jesus" conversations in the car. it's interesting how this keeps being turned towards the OM actions, but His wife grabbed the dude and kissed him in public adding an "I love you too."

Yes, I know, he may have said it first, but he sure didn't reach out and pull her in for a kiss.


----------



## GusPolinski

I've not read through this entire thread just yet, so for now I'm essentially replying to only the title of the thread...

If she's willing to kiss this guy (or any other guy, for that matter) in front of you, _what do you think she's doing *when you're NOT around*?!?_


----------



## GusPolinski

Jellybeans said:


> Highly inappropriate. All of it,.
> 
> My question is why haven't you done something about it? Have you ever even called him out on it? You should have done it RIGHT THERE. And in front of his wife.


Agreed. I'd rather be called a f*cking neanderthal than sit on my f*cking hands and do nothing while this sh*t is going on RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. MY. F*CKING. FACE.

I'd have already knocked a couple of this assh*le's teeth down his motherf*cking throat.


----------



## TRy

Turin74 said:


> 1st, I didn't suggested going physical as the only option. F.. Off my wife would suffice.
> 2nd you just need to know where/how to punch...  BTW low kick to certain parts of the leg is very painful and is not easy to spot in the crowd  not suggesting, just a theory so I don't get banned


 1st you claim that you "didn't suggested going physical as the only option", and then you immediately follow that up with how he could have safely gone physical he just needed "to know where/how to punch", specially discussing "BTW low kick to certain parts of the leg is very painful and is not easy to spot in the crowd". You cannot have it both ways. Your false disclaimers aside, you are recommending physical violence, and MattMatt's caution not to resort to physical violence was and is appropriate.


----------



## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed. I'd rather be called a f*cking neanderthal than sit on my f*cking hands and do nothing while this sh*t is going on RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. MY. F*CKING. FACE.
> 
> I'd have already knocked a couple of this assh*le's teeth down his motherf*cking throat.


I know, that's what I'd want to do.

Can't help thinking about my old mate, however, saddled with a criminal record.


----------



## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed. I'd rather be called a f*cking neanderthal than sit on my f*cking hands and do nothing while this sh*t is going on RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. MY. F*CKING. FACE.
> 
> I'd have already knocked a couple of this assh*le's teeth down his motherf*cking throat.


The problem was that she kissed _him_, so this isn't going to work. 

At best she'll just find a different guy. Sure, she might learn enough respect to hide it, but that's about it.

What I'd do if my wife kissed another dude?

I'd kiss his wife, throw my wife my ring, and tell the guy that she was his problem now.


----------



## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> *The problem was that she kissed him, so this isn't going to work.*
> 
> At best she'll just find a different guy. Sure, she might learn enough respect to hide it, but that's about it.
> 
> What I'd do if my wife kissed another dude?
> 
> I'd kiss his wife, throw my wife my ring, and tell the guy that she was his problem now.


Doesn't really matter. This d**chenozzle has displayed inappropriate behavior far in excess of the minimum required to elicit such a reaction.

To be clear, I'm not recommending or even advocating violence; I'm only explaining how I'd have likely reacted _in the moment_.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

This thread has moved quickly and I'm here late and haven't read the whole thing. Sorry if this has already been addressed but something just stood out so strongly to me I have to say it. 

The OP must address the issue of "the kiss", but there is a greater issue lurking under the surface that will take him more time to nail down. The lack of Alpha. 

We all know men who, if burdened with this test, would automatically unleash the fury of hell. This is why so many of these men are NOT tested this way. Everyone who knows them, especially their wives, know beyond a shadow of a doubt that to grab this bull by the tail you will surely get the horn. 

This nuance is often transferred to following generations through family tradition and culture, but seems to be fading in modern times. I think it is more difficult to acquire without manly role models during youth but can be done.


----------



## Gabriel

OP has been gone awhile. Hoping this isn't another troll story.

.....or maybe I am.


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## GusPolinski

Gabriel said:


> OP has been gone awhile. Hoping this isn't another troll story.
> 
> .....or maybe I am.


Gabe, I'll be honest -- I had the same thought.

This story brings to mind a thread that was posted in the GRD forum (I think) a few weeks back... Basically the OP was out at dinner w/ his wife and a bunch of co-workers to celebrate one of the co-worker's (25-year-old "meathead") birthday... They'd all apparently had plenty to drink and, when OP announced that he was going to get the car, his wife attempted to follow and the younger guy picked her up and began dry humping her to the tune of riotous laughter from everyone present... Everyone except for the OP. And then, at the urging of more than one person there, they did it again so that pics could get taken!

In the end it was proven to be a troll thread. "_Designed to insight_" indeed...


----------



## happyman64

Gabriel said:


> OP has been gone awhile. Hoping this isn't another troll story.
> 
> .....or maybe I am.


OP is from the UK or that area on the globe. He is probably sleeping....


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## workindad

OP- one last suggestion for you.

You refer to this man as a friend. He is no friend. Not a friend to you. Not a friend to your marriage. He is in fact the exact opposite.

Make your decisions from that perspective.

However, your problem is not only with him. Your wife is playing you, you know it, she knows, she knows that you know it, and you permit/enable it through inaction.


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## EI

Rookie4 said:


> What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


I don't think it can be described as a silly or casual flirtation. The OP has *repeatedly* expressed his discomfort to his wife regarding her behavior with this man. Because of that, it can't be described as a casual flirtation, anymore, even if that is all it ever really was intended to be. Now, it's blatant disrespect towards her husband. 

My fWS spidey senses don't like this situation one bit. On what planet is it acceptable for a married woman to kiss another man, who is not her husband, or perhaps her elderly father, full on the lips, and say "I Love You." The fact that the OP first started noticing little things a few years ago, and that it continues to escalate, right in front his eyes, would suggest to me that something may have been going on for quite some time, now, and that his wife and the OM are just getting a lot more bold.

I can almost imagine her justifying this to herself by thinking that because she isn't being discreet or secretive, at all, that it's not really "cheating." It is, IMHfWSO. 

BTW, *IF* OP's wife is testing him, he is not scoring very well. The summer before my A began, the husband of a friend of ours, who evidently was well aware of our marital problems, started coming on to me. I ignored him, but that just seemed to make him more determined. When my repeated efforts to dissuade him proved to be ineffective, I finally told B1. His response of "What do you want me to do about it?" left me feeling less than cherished by my husband. It would be dishonest of me, if I didn't admit that I allowed that to play a small part in the multitude of reasons I used in justifying my A.


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## bryanp

How do you think you wife would be feeling the roles had been reversed? Would she have been so accepting as you? She is showing clearly a severe level of disrespect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Sports Fan

Sorry you are going through this.

Where theres smoke there is fire and there is plenty wrong with this picture.

Of course your wife is being highly inappropriate. Dont let her gas light you.

Off hand i would suspect there is something a bit more going on.

I would drop a VAR underneath her car seat strapped with Velcro.

If there is something going on or she fancies him you can guarantee that the VAR will catch either her speaking to him or her telling a friend about it.


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## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> What if it isn't? What if his wife is innocent of nothing more than a silly, casual flirtation? But the OP will have demonstrated his mistrust and suspicion of her. How will this make his marriage any better? If he begins to search for signs she is unfaithful, and she isn't unfaithful, what then?


She has already been unfaithful and has not shown any reason to trust her. She seems to be a pursuer here.

Sorry, but paralyzing rhetoric is not really helpful. Her behavior is wrong. If anything he has been way way too passive already. THIS is destroying his marriage.


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## Entropy3000

Dad&Hubby said:


> I want to make one point abundantly clear. I was not advocating physical violence (although I know it came across that way...I take that on as just a poorly worded post by me), I was just responding to the fact that the OP wants to confront this "friend" and he should.
> 
> I agree with Entropy and the others who have said that this problem is with the Wife....but I know I, personally, wouldn't be able to restrain from not at least confronting the guy in this situation and making it 100% clear that he'll not see us (my wife or myself) ever again, and I'd make a point to talk to his wife as well.
> 
> Additionally, I wouldn't tell my wife I was having these conversations ahead of time.


Just to be clear in no way did your post come off as suggesting violence at all in my opinion. But he needs to prepared for the various ways this could play out.

I think making this clear to the OM is a good thing. But my fear is that this could readily backfire. The guy could laugh at him. The guy could gaslight him. The guy could threaten him. I just do not think the OP is up to this.

BUT, your point is well made and does have merit if he can navigate the pitfalls. It would take some finesses and guile though.


----------



## Entropy3000

Yeswecan said:


> Between you, me and the lamp post...as soon as OM dropped that innuendo about her children never starving(in ref to her chest) he would have been confronted and left in no doubt that speaking like that to my W will never happen again.


I hope I would have been clear then as well. I know I would have engaged. It would have been firm and my displeasure known. He likely would have apologized.


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## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> Yes, that whole kiss thing reeks. I agree. what I'm saying is that the OP needs to ...stop... have a heart to heart with his wife......, set the new boundaries... . then enforce them. If after that, the inappropriate behavior continues...escalate. It's better to start slow and build than it is to take actions that cannot be un-taken.


Once the genie is out of the bottle putting it back in is very hard to do. Some things require clear and firm action. Indeed we agree he should address his wife.
He has continued to allow this on and on. He is avoiding conflict. I think anything short of them going NC is under reacting. One can be firm and loving.


----------



## Entropy3000

MattMatt said:


> I have a friend who reacted with one just punch when a drunk touched his wife.
> 
> Sadly, that one punch sent him to jail for manslaughter for several years, as the drunk smashed his head on the kerbstone and died.


I will take those odds sir. That said, where the heck did they live? Where I live punching a drunk guy who touched my wife would not get you put in jail. That is called assault here. You have a right to defend yourself and your wife. Oh wait you are not from Texas. LOL. Nevermind.

But indeed if the guy grabbed his wifes face and kissed here full on he may have earned a broken nose. BUT ... sigh. It was the WIFE who did this. So yeah the "friend" is not a friend. NC was appropriate. Hard to punch the dude when the wife was the one out of hand.

Not sure why anyone would suspect this thread ....


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed. I'd rather be called a f*cking neanderthal than sit on my f*cking hands and do nothing while this sh*t is going on RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. MY. F*CKING. FACE.
> 
> I'd have already knocked a couple of this assh*le's teeth down his motherf*cking throat.


I said something like this, once, and had the ban hammer dropped on me. Just sayin.


----------



## Pufferfish

Not the real me said:


> Ok . point taken. No beer, just didn't want to seem like I wasn't confronting this head on. I am happy with no contact. time will tell whether my wife feels the same. She has the chance to save this. I aren't giving up on a lifetime relationship. But she needs to start talking to me. I'll keep you posted.


Assuming you are the real deal, you really need to take this on. You don't need to deck the guy. 

Should you ever meet him again, just copy everything your wife does. If she hugs him, you hug him to. If she flirts with him, you flirt with him too. And if she kisses him on the lips, you kiss him on the lips too. Then you will all see what's inappropriate pretty quick.


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## Rookie4

OP, my advice is to lay the law down to your wife. No repeats of the inappropriate contact will be tolerated. Period...end of story. And stick to it.
Then keep a casual eye on her activities. At this point, that is all you really need to do. Disregard all of the convoluted, elaborate amd dramatic scenerios, and all of the Gestapo ideas.


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## Not the real me

Not a troll. This is a real event and yes I am in the uk so been home and sleeping. Was posting yesterday whilst at work. She's clear as to what I want and so far is doing her best to tow the line. Ive withdrawn my emotions towards her. We always had a good loving relationship, hence why I didn't over react at any of the earlier incidents. I'm biding my time. I'm a patient man and her next move will ease my decision on my next step. Yesterday I was genuinely overwhelmed by you guys responses and support. I'd have no fear on knocking him out. But I'm bigger than that. My taking away the security and love I've always given her would hurt her more than me giving him a good hiding. I do think she is sensing this now. So time will tell.


----------



## brendanoco

Not the real me said:


> Not a troll. This is a real event and yes I am in the uk so been home and sleeping. Was posting yesterday whilst at work. She's clear as to what I want and so far is doing her best to tow the line. Ive withdrawn my emotions towards her. *We always had a good loving relationship, hence why I didn't over react at any of the earlier incidents*. I'm biding my time. I'm a patient man and her next move will ease my decision on my next step. Yesterday I was genuinely overwhelmed by you guys responses and support. I'd have no fear on knocking him out. But I'm bigger than that. My taking away the security and love I've always given her would hurt her more than me giving him a good hiding. I do think she is sensing this now. So time will tell.


well even if you did have a good loving relationship you should still react to your wife kissing another man and telling him she loves him.

i think you need to check phone records, her facebook, just to make sure this isint the tip of the iceberg


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## Not the real me

The earlier incidents I didn't react to wasn't the kissing. It's the kiss that's caused then reaction. That's why I'm here now. I'm monitoring things. Gathering evidence. Looking for little slip ups or proofs of untruths. All guns blazing isn't my style. I'm taking my time and doing this right.


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## manfromlamancha

This really sounds like a combination of stuff:


The POSOM having some kind of crush on your wife and pushing boundaries all the time in a very brazen way (thats the bit that should earn him a good smack on the face).

Your wife liking the flirting and thinking its not just OK but actually cool to flirt in the way she did culminating with the kiss (this needs to be addressed as it was clearly a question of boundaries being crossed). The flirting itself is not necessarily bad and could add to your own sex life being improved but certain boundaries should always be maintained.

Her being weak at other times and going with the flow rather than putting him in his place (you need to help her with this and take the initiative and show her how its done).

I sense that you know what you need to do.


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## thatbpguy

Not the real me said:


> The earlier incidents I didn't react to wasn't the kissing. It's the kiss that's caused then reaction. That's why I'm here now. I'm monitoring things. Gathering evidence. Looking for little slip ups or proofs of untruths. All guns blazing isn't my style. I'm taking my time and doing this right.


No disrespect intended, but the situation is ever before you and they're flaunting in in your face. Making matters worse, your oh so loving wife is laughing at you when you call her on it.

I think all you are doing is driving yourself in the ground. 

I mean, let's say you do continue to put up with this for several more months before finding your smoking gun- then what? You will confront her and she will laugh at you again.

See, I think you have missed the point. Maybe intentionally so, and there I can't say I blame you.

Your wife neither loves nor respects you. Period. She is openly seducing another man in your face, daring you and your head seems to be in the sand. You have long since reached the point to 'fish or cut bait'. 

It's time to simply tell her to go. She cares nothing for you.


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## Suspecting2014

Not the real me said:


> The earlier incidents I didn't react to wasn't the kissing. It's the kiss that's caused then reaction. That's why I'm here now. I'm monitoring things. Gathering evidence. Looking for little slip ups or proofs of untruths. All guns blazing isn't my style. I'm taking my time and doing this right.


As I posted before, ask her for a poly!

When it comes clean, I think it will, you can trusth her again.

You really need to talk about boundaries, what makes you feel unconfortable.


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## Gabriel

Not the real me said:


> The earlier incidents I didn't react to wasn't the kissing. It's the kiss that's caused then reaction. That's why I'm here now. I'm monitoring things. Gathering evidence. Looking for little slip ups or proofs of untruths. *All guns blazing isn't my style.* I'm taking my time and doing this right.


Clearly not. You've had your gun in the holster for years. Time to take it out.

If you look back at my original post about taking them out to dinner...my point was that this will act as a power play for you. It's more than recovering from THIS incident, or THIS guy invading your marriage. It's about showcasing to your wife that you are going to protect her from outside predators. That's she is worth pounding your chest for.

But if you want to continue to be passive about it, do so at your own peril. Not saying she'll run off, but you are missing an opportunity to impress her with strength, brother.


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## Chaparral

Have you actually checked phone/text records to see if they are in contact? Do you have access to her phone or is it glued to her side?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> Have you actually checked phone/text records to see if they are in contact? Do you have access to her phone or is it glued to her side?


Right.

I see Godwin made an appearance.
[email protected] Hyperbole.OP hasn't killed, tortured, abused, forced her to sign a confession through threats of harm or falsely imprisoned his wife. You've already taken it slow, four years of this is ridiculous. Looking at phone records and a VAR is not guns blazing. This isn't your innocent wife, who never made you suspicious, it is a wife, by your own words, who has done disrespectful things on at least three specific occasions that you have mentioned. Plus, other incidents you are subtly addressing.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Suspecting2014 said:


> As I posted before, ask her for a poly!
> 
> When it comes clean, I think it will, you can trusth her again.
> 
> You really need to talk about boundaries, what makes you feel unconfortable.


 This is guns blazing to him. People are asking him to check phone records and use a VAR, which are subtle. 

Seriously, I didn't do the VAR, wish I had, I said lets get the phone records. She procrastinated, I got the records and that sit down was not a fun night. 

Sorry, his wife needs to understand she has breached his trust. 
She is long past innocent:
Bread stick Kiss game with unknown man or men.
Tipsy excuse full Kiss on the lips.
Fight to attend dinner where OM is in attendance.
4 Day late Birthday cheek peck.
Flirting at the dinner table.


If I have made it clear I do not want to attend an event, after explaining it is due to your kiss of another man, fighting is going to raise a flag to me.


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## old red

you are being weak and she is being disrespectful. i agree with entropy: no contact. set new boundaries with your wife.


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## Jellybeans

EI said:


> I don't think it can be described as a silly or casual flirtation. The OP has *repeatedly* expressed his discomfort to his wife regarding her behavior with this man. Because of that, it can't be described as a casual flirtation, anymore, even if that is all it ever really was intended to be. Now, it's blatant disrespect towards her husband.
> 
> My fWS spidey senses don't like this situation one bit. On what planet is it acceptable for a married woman to kiss another man, who is not her husband, or perhaps her elderly father, full on the lips, and say "I Love You." The fact that the OP first started noticing little things a few years ago, and that it continues to escalate, right in front his eyes, would suggest to me that something may have been going on for quite some time, now, and that his wife and the OM are just getting a lot more bold.


:iagree:

This probably has been happening for awhile. Whether it's ever gone physical, I don't know, but their behavior and the OP saying he has felt something off for years between them, tells me this is a long-standing EA/inappropriate flirting relationship; it's clear they fancy each other. The fact that OP has stood idly by and done nothing is really beyond me. And if he continues the status quo, it's only going to get worse.

OP - you need to have some words with this guy. Do not delay. And I'd tell his wife too how inappropriate he's being with your wife. 

I seriously cannot at all imagine kissing a man on the lips in front of my husband and telling them I love them. The level of disrespect there is astronomical.


----------



## AlphaHalf

After Being on this site for a couple of years, It seems that people who post here from the UK have some of the most blatant issues of infidelity from there spouses. Damn it man no more letting this behavior slide, be direct and confront the issue.


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## JWTBL

The fact that you originally posted on the "coping with infidelity" topic indicates to me that you know intuitively that she has already stepped out of the marriage. Giving her a lie detector test (wtf?) will do nothing except turn your marriage into some kind of Gestapo situation. I have a feeling you have not reacted to her inappropriate behavior because you are perhaps at the point where you don't really care enough to fight for her. That someone who would disrespect you in this way is not worth the effort, and you are burying your real feelings and will one day just walk away, because you will have no feelings left for her. I'm just talking from experience, and it looks like your marriage is on a slide downwards, and unless both of you wake up and fight for it, it will just go the way of an extinct species, gradually disappearing because no one fought to preserve it.


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## alexm

Damn this escalated quickly. 12 pages in a day, and most with the same replies (all very good, btw). And as usual, I am late to the party...!

My 2 cents, which will get buried in here - 

This seems like a case of a long-married woman who is getting attention from a long-time "friend" to whom there has always been an underlying attraction for, and from.

I would say this is normal, more or less. Most of us, I would venture, have couple-friends with whom there's a slight attraction to, even though nothing ever happens, or would happen. I can tell when my wife finds somebody attractive, and the opposite is probably true. No matter how much you love your partner, feeling attraction to other people is natural and normal, provided the boundaries are maintained. Being married doesn't mean you shut that part of your brain off.

My thoughts are that OP's wife feels (or felt) that she could handle this attention and that nothing would, or will ever, happen. That may be true. It makes her feel good about herself, and why wouldn't it? That doesn't mean she doesn't see OP in that way, either. It's a normal reaction to feel flattered when somebody else clearly finds you attractive.

The problem is with boundaries, of which she has crossed, never mind him. To her, it may very well mean absolutely nothing, other than an ego boost. There may be no fantasies, she may never think about him, she may not even find HIM that attractive. She may be 100% dedicated to OP. But it's a good feeling to be wanted, even if it's by somebody you wouldn't necessarily do anything with even if single.

They're both out of line, but neither one more than the other. He's an ass, she's naïve and enjoying it. She's been called out now, so time will tell if she "gets it".

In any case, this is often how affairs start - one party doesn't "mean" to take it that far. They are simply flattered that somebody else sees them that way, and sometimes it gets out of hand. If anything were to happen in this particular case, this is the type of affair that she would likely feel horribly guilty about, as opposed to the "leave my husband" type.

Best thing to do with these types is what you've already done - state your feelings, put your foot down, stay FAR away from this guy. They are no longer friends of yours or your wifes.


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## bandit.45

If things ever dry up for me women-wise here in the States, I'm headed for England. Seems like it would be ridiculously easy to get laid over there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

JWTBL said:


> The fact that you originally posted on the "coping with infidelity" topic indicates to me that you know intuitively that she has already stepped out of the marriage.


Well, and his thread title has "friend" in quotes - he knows it's wrong. 



JWTBL said:


> I have a feeling you have not reacted to her inappropriate behavior because you are perhaps at the point where you don't really care enough to fight for her. That someone who would disrespect you in this way is not worth the effort, and you are burying your real feelings and will one day just walk away, because you will have no feelings left for her.


Or it could be that he thinks that by doing nothing, and listening to her say "it doesn't mean anything" this will all just go away. Which it won't. 



bandit.45 said:


> If things ever dry up for me women-wise here in the States, I'm headed for England. Seems like it would be ridiculously easy to get laid over there.


Because you want a married woman who will cheat with you? Since that is what this thread is largely about. I thought you weren't into that.


----------



## Not the real me

alexm said:


> Damn this escalated quickly. 12 pages in a day, and most with the same replies (all very good, btw). And as usual, I am late to the party...!
> 
> My 2 cents, which will get buried in here -
> 
> This seems like a case of a long-married woman who is getting attention from a long-time "friend" to whom there has always been an underlying attraction for, and from.
> 
> I would say this is normal, more or less. Most of us, I would venture, have couple-friends with whom there's a slight attraction to, even though nothing ever happens, or would happen. I can tell when my wife finds somebody attractive, and the opposite is probably true. No matter how much you love your partner, feeling attraction to other people is natural and normal, provided the boundaries are maintained. Being married doesn't mean you shut that part of your brain off.
> 
> My thoughts are that OP's wife feels (or felt) that she could handle this attention and that nothing would, or will ever, happen. That may be true. It makes her feel good about herself, and why wouldn't it? That doesn't mean she doesn't see OP in that way, either. It's a normal reaction to feel flattered when somebody else clearly finds you attractive.
> 
> The problem is with boundaries, of which she has crossed, never mind him. To her, it may very well mean absolutely nothing, other than an ego boost. There may be no fantasies, she may never think about him, she may not even find HIM that attractive. She may be 100% dedicated to OP. But it's a good feeling to be wanted, even if it's by somebody you wouldn't necessarily do anything with even if single.
> 
> They're both out of line, but neither one more than the other. He's an ass, she's naïve and enjoying it. She's been called out now, so time will tell if she "gets it".
> 
> In any case, this is often how affairs start - one party doesn't "mean" to take it that far. They are simply flattered that somebody else sees them that way, and sometimes it gets out of hand. If anything were to happen in this particular case, this is the type of affair that she would likely feel horribly guilty about, as opposed to the "leave my husband" type.
> 
> Best thing to do with these types is what you've already done - state your feelings, put your foot down, stay FAR away from this guy. They are no longer friends of yours or your wifes.


This reply seems closest to what I feel is the truth. Maybe she has had a mutual admiration for him. She's human, but I could always handle it as it was never reciprocated. She has agreed to not seeing him again, either with or without me. She works out of town, he works in the town so i don't see any clandestine meetings taking place so far. I hope I have nipped it in the bud as she has apologised and said it won't happen again. Time will tell. I aren't one for snooping. Part of me says que sera sera, if she was gonna do anything more she knows i am keeping an eye on her. I'm just gonna monitor how she seems going forward.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Not The Real Me

So now that you've made yourself clear to wifey, have you come up with a plan of what to do about whatever scenario might materialize in her behavior? 

I think it would be wise of you to consider how you will want to deal with certain problems if they arise. You seem to favor diplomacy over knee jerk reactions and I can see the wisdom in that, but you also need to make yourself self aware of what crossing the line is. 

As I consider your personality and style I think there is one idea you need to wrap your mind around and that is sometimes you need to blindside an erring spouse with the unexpected. It might be the only way to get through to them in order to salvage the relationship. Hope you don't have to get this drastic. 

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"


----------



## Yeswecan

Not the real me said:


> This reply seems closest to what I feel is the truth. Maybe she has had a mutual admiration for him. She's human, but I could always handle it as it was never reciprocated. She has agreed to not seeing him again, either with or without me. She works out of town, he works in the town so i don't see any clandestine meetings taking place so far. I hope I have nipped it in the bud as she has apologised and said it won't happen again. Time will tell. I aren't one for snooping. Part of me says que sera sera, if she was gonna do anything more she knows i am keeping an eye on her. I'm just gonna monitor how she seems going forward.


Very good sign she is agreeing verbally to these things. Actions prove to be better than words. By the way, it is not snooping! It is looking after the ones you love!


----------



## davecarter

bandit.45 said:


> If things ever dry up for me women-wise here in the States, I'm headed for England. Seems like it would be ridiculously easy to get laid over there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depends on what kind of women with whom you want to get laid.

I've officially 'given-up' with women here...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Not the real me said:


> This reply seems closest to what I feel is the truth. Maybe she has had a mutual admiration for him. She's human, but I could always handle it as it was never reciprocated. She has agreed to not seeing him again, either with or without me. She works out of town, he works in the town so i don't see any clandestine meetings taking place so far. I hope I have nipped it in the bud as she has apologised and said it won't happen again. Time will tell. I aren't one for snooping. Part of me says que sera sera, if she was gonna do anything more she knows i am keeping an eye on her. I'm just gonna monitor how she seems going forward.


I'm confused by this, and would appreciate a straight up answer to this question: have you checked the phone records?


----------



## Rugs

I read until page six and I just couldn't take it anymore. 

So many of you wanted to tear the OM's guts out but walked way to softly on OP's WIFE. 

Your wife should be dealt with FIRST. 

Do you know how many guys hit on us women in a day? Week? 

MANY. Trust me, they do. To say any woman doesn't know how to handle being hit on is ridiculous. Really ridiculous. My teenage daughter has already figured this out as well as her friends. 

Your wife knows EXACTLY what she is doing. 

Now, if they had a secret affair, they most likely would do the opposite and steer clear of each other while their spouses are around. Tons of affairs are with mutual friends and ALL of them keep their distance while in the crowd and will meet in a secret place, alone, another time. 

These two are in lust and just waiting for a drunken opportunity to mess around. They will get there, it's almost inevitable. 

Tell your wife, no more of this guy, period!! It's up to HER to put a stop to it. If she has any respect for you, SHE will step up and tell the OM to back off. No more flirty signals. 

Coming from you is an empty threat and almost laughable. Control your wife and that controls the situation. 

After you STRONGLY tell your wife what she needs to do and how she needs to act, you need to monitor any suspicious behavior. These two are already horns for each other and may just need to screw to get it out of their system. 

Monitor her to make sure she's not going to be around him without you. Better yet, stay away from all these people for a while and take your wife somewhere alone and show her she's not missing a thing. 

Good luck!


----------



## Not the real me

No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it. If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.


----------



## bandit.45

Jellybeans said:


> Because you want a married woman who will cheat with you? Since that is what this thread is largely about. I thought you weren't into that.


No I wouldn't go with a married chick. But having said this, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in the mindset between married women and single women in Europe anymore. Maybe I'm playing to stereotypes, but it just seems like British and European women don't give a fvck about stepping out brazenly on their hubbies. I dunno, maybe it goes both ways over there.


----------



## bandit.45

davecarter said:


> Depends on what kind of women with whom you want to get laid.
> 
> I've officially 'given-up' with women here...


A vagina and a pulse? 


Where's here?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

My H openly left his phone out too... it was partly how I pieced together that he had stepped out on me. She was the only female name on his skype account. I started confronting and got a LOT of the same bs you are getting. I kept my eyes open and then I logged into our cell phone bill and that is where I uncovered they had been sending nude pics back and forth. When I confronted the second time he spilled the beans.

Right now your story is tracking very close to mine. I trusted my H 100% too ... until I picked up his phone following a comment to his mother that made my radar click into high gear. Do not ignore your radar.

I don't advise apathy regarding assessing this threat.

Dig deeper... you may just save your marriage. I did.. caught their affair before it went PIV.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it. If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.





Nucking Futs said:


> I'm confused by this, and would appreciate a straight up answer to this question: have you checked the phone records?


Not the phone, the phone records! You need to look at the numbers called and texted from her phone to see if his shows up there. Just pull up the bill online and look.


----------



## brendanoco

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it.* If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt*. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.


whats the harm in checking to make sure???


----------



## SadSamIAm

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it. If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.


I think you are handling this well. You need to lay back and monitor and see how she handles the situation. You want her to handle it on her own, because she wants to. Not because you are forcing her to. 

She has failed so far, but you have made your feelings known. Now you need to see what she does with this. 

Because in reality, we have virtually no control over our spouses. Where there is a will, there is a way. 

She works out of town and he works in town, but nothing is stopping him from taking a day off here and there and meeting her. Not saying it is happening, just that it easily could.

You need her to do the right thing because of who she is and her committment to you, not because you made her.


----------



## EleGirl

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it. If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.


So you trust that she's not crossed the line. But you are thinking of uprooting your entire life and selling the house.. over what you say is nothing. And you will leave her over what you say is nothing if she does it again. :scratchhead:


----------



## Not the real me

EleGirl said:


> So you trust that she's not crossed the line. But you are thinking of uprooting your entire life and selling the house.. over what you say is nothing. And you will leave her over what you say is nothing if she does it again. :scratchhead:


Far enough away not to be in that social circle so easily. But close enough for work etc. We could move closer to her work, as she commutes daily. It would just be me who commuted instead.
If we split we sell up anyway. Her backing me on a move away from him would help with a fresh start.


----------



## Not the real me

SadSamIAm said:


> I think you are handling this well. You need to lay back and monitor and see how she handles the situation. You want her to handle it on her own, because she wants to. Not because you are forcing her to.
> 
> She has failed so far, but you have made your feelings known. Now you need to see what she does with this.
> 
> Because in reality, we have virtually no control over our spouses. Where there is a will, there is a way.
> 
> She works out of town and he works in town, but nothing is stopping him from taking a day off here and there and meeting her. Not saying it is happening, just that it easily could.
> 
> You need her to do the right thing because of who she is and her committment to you, not because you made her.


That's why I haven't said anything to him yet. i want to hear it from her on her own accord. Not because I've forced her.


----------



## bandit.45

She hasn't crossed the line? 

What?


----------



## bandit.45

What's the next line going to be!? Is he going to unbutton her blouse in front of everyone and start kissing her breasts? What is this line you are talking about?


----------



## treyvion

Not the real me said:


> That's why I haven't said anything to him yet. i want to hear it from her on her own accord. Not because I've forced her.


Did one of them kiss the other on the cheek? Or you caught them kissing on the mouth, I know you said "kissing". I wanted that act described.

I guess a French kiss might as well be sex.


----------



## Not the real me

bandit.45 said:


> She hasn't crossed the line?
> 
> What?


I never said she hadn't crossed the line. I said she said nothing further i.e. sexually had happened, therein I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now.
It was a kiss on the lips with her hands on his cheeks holding his face in response to something he said that i didn't catch. After the kiss she tells him "I love you too" which she says was a sarcastic response but she can't remember what he said to provoke the response. this is where the problem really is.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

My alarms would be screaming...


----------



## italianjob

EleGirl said:


> So you trust that she's not crossed the line. But you are thinking of uprooting your entire life and selling the house.. over what you say is nothing. And you will leave her over what you say is nothing if she does it again. :scratchhead:


Yeah, checking her phone/phone records and snooping around a bit is considered too extreme, but you are ready to sell your house and move over this and that is normal?:scratchhead:

Are you writing from the UK or from Mars?


----------



## Not the real me

My alarm is screaming, that's why I am here. 

I will check the phone records. And the house sale wouldn't be so extreme as a little after the new year we discussed moving to a place with a little more land.


----------



## ReidWright

it's been firmly established that she has poor boundaries with at least one man. Huge red flag. A quick check of the call log, texts, chats, and emails might turn up other improper behavior with other men.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

italianjob said:


> Yeah, checking her phone/phone records and snooping around a bit is considered too extreme, but you are ready to sell your house and move over this and that is normal?:scratchhead:
> 
> Are you writing from the UK or from Mars?


Be nice...


----------



## treyvion

Not the real me said:


> I never said she hadn't crossed the line. I said she said nothing further i.e. sexually had happened, therein I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now.
> It was a kiss on the lips with her hands on his cheeks holding his face in response to something he said that i didn't catch. After the kiss she tells him "I love you too" which she says was a sarcastic response but she can't remember what he said to provoke the response. this is where the problem really is.


OMG... This really is him testing the waters, claiming his territory right under your roof.

Cheaters lie and are very slick even when caught they can formulate something to say which will make sense to your brain.


----------



## davecarter

bandit.45 said:


> A vagina and a pulse?
> 
> 
> Where's here?


1 - High standards I guess

2 - UK


----------



## youkiddingme

Man, I appreciate your desire to trust your wife. However, it seems you are being played for a fool. Please do one thing that others have repeatedly asked......look at her phone bill.

If you won't do that, you are not being trusting... you are deceiving yourself and putting your head in the sand.


----------



## treyvion

Not the real me said:


> I never said she hadn't crossed the line. I said she said nothing further i.e. sexually had happened, therein I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now.
> It was a kiss on the lips with her hands on his cheeks holding his face in response to something he said that i didn't catch. After the kiss she tells him "I love you too" which she says was a sarcastic response but she can't remember what he said to provoke the response. this is where the problem really is.


Do you remember where his hands where and how he looked at her?


----------



## vellocet

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed. I'd rather be called a f*cking neanderthal than sit on my f*cking hands and do nothing while this sh*t is going on RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. MY. F*CKING. FACE.
> 
> I'd have already knocked a couple of this assh*le's teeth down his motherf*cking throat.


Oh believe me I understand the anger towards a man that ignores the fact a woman is married.

But the problem with wanting violence against the OM, and especially in the OPs case, is the wife is the main problem.

I never would have done anything to the OM that I wouldn't have first done to my x-wife. And if I had of done something bad to the OM, I'd have had to dealt out equal or worse consequences to the wife.....not being violent in either situation. I wouldn't have done my kids any favors by landing in jail.


----------



## bandit.45

Not the real me said:


> I never said she hadn't crossed the line. I said she said nothing further i.e. sexually had happened, therein I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now.
> It was a kiss on the lips with her hands on his cheeks holding his face in response to something he said that i didn't catch. After the kiss she tells him "I love you too" which she says was a sarcastic response but she can't remember what he said to provoke the response. this is where the problem really is.


I was responding to EleGirl's comment, not yours. 

Having said that, if my wife did that, she would be taking a taxi back and sleeping at her moms that night and probably for a week or so afterward. This is not proper behavior in any way shape or form. I would tell her that if she wants to kiss other men and tell them she loves them, she can fvcking well do it as a single woman. Your wife was out of line. 

And I'm amazed at the minimizing Im seeing from posters on here who damn well should know better.


----------



## italianjob

Not the real me said:


> My alarm is screaming, that's why I am here.
> 
> I will check the phone records. And the house sale wouldn't be so extreme as a little after the new year we discussed moving to a place with a little more land.


Ah, ok, you would just accelerate something that was already planned, at least partly...

Anyway I think you need to understand if something worse than what you witnessed has already happened. That's why I would check phone records and sniff the air a bit to see if it's possible they somehow hooked up outside of the couple events.

Once you've cleared this, for what is possible to do, you may just watch her future behaviour IMO.


----------



## vellocet

youkiddingme said:


> Man, I appreciate your desire to trust your wife. However, it seems you are being played for a fool. Please do one thing that others have repeatedly asked......look at her phone bill.
> 
> If you won't do that, you are not being trusting... you are deceiving yourself and putting your head in the sand.


I agree. I have experienced being in the company of women around town that are too flirtatious, suggested with their comments, and seem to think all this "friendly" kissing is no big deal, and just about every one of them ended up having affairs.

OP, do your investigation, yes SNOOP, because she is giving you a reason to doubt. Trust me, her behavior is not that of a trustworthy wife.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Great point vellocet, SHE gave him the reason to dig deeper. Therefore it is reasonable.


----------



## Not the real me

italianjob said:


> Ah, ok, you would just accelerate something that was already planned, at least partly...
> 
> Anyway I think you need to understand if something worse than what you witnessed has already happened. That's why I would check phone records and sniff the air a bit to see if it's possible they somehow hooked up outside of the couple events.
> 
> Once you've cleared this, for what is possible to do, you may just watch her future behaviour IMO.


Phone will be checked this evening. Both physically and bill. I have set the boundaries as regards zero contact with OM so if she crossed that line then there is no grey areas. She is in no doubt as to how I feel. but like I say, after being together 27 1/2 years and never having reason to doubt or mistrust her I am willing to give her a degree of benefit of doubt.


----------



## vellocet

Not the real me said:


> Phone will be checked this evening. Both physically and bill. I have set the boundaries as regards zero contact with OM so if she crossed that line then there is no grey areas. She is in no doubt as to how I feel. but like I say, after being together 27 1/2 years and never having reason to doubt or mistrust her I am willing to give her a degree of benefit of doubt.


Very good. Like Blossom and I said, she is giving you reason to investigate. And ignore the advice that would have you thinking this is some sort of Nazi SS tactic. Its not.


----------



## ReidWright

Not the real me said:


> Phone will be checked this evening. Both physically and bill.


yes, trust but verify.

and don't mention a word of it to her...ever. Otherwise that information source will be gone forever, and she'll just gaslight you to minimize whatever you find.

and don't confront until you have a solid plan


----------



## thummper

I applaud your restraint! If I'd seen my wife kissing another man, the cops would have been hauling me off in handcuffs and, hopefully, the offending om would have been sporting a nice, puffy black eye.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it..


Yep, my wife did the same thing. Then I decided to check when my gut, like yours, was screaming at me. Guess what I found? An I love you text because she KNEW I wouldn't snoop. Hopefully you are right, but leaving the phone around the house is neither proof one way or the other.


> Phone will be checked this evening. Both physically and bill. I have set the boundaries as regards zero contact with OM so if she crossed that line then there is no grey areas. She is in no doubt as to how I feel. but like I say, after being together 27 1/2 years and never having reason to doubt or mistrust her I am willing to give her a degree of benefit of doubt.


 21 years here and "benefit of the doubt" smacked me right in the face and laughed. I'm not saying be an ogre, but the phone isn't enough. You need to include email, Facebook, skype, computer and the bills for at least a year.


----------



## turnera

Not the real me said:


> No I haven't checked her phone. She openly leaves it in the kitchen and I doubt she would leave it around if there was anything incriminating on it. If I feel the need to I shall, but at the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She says there's nothing going on. In my own mind the next time she steps out of line she is history. If he's in the picture then he's ending up in the hospital. She knows this. I am pondering whether to tell her we are moving out of town and putting the house up for sale.


How about before you go neanderthal, you two read HNHN together and take a good hard look at your marriage and see where you can sew up the weak edges? Treat this like the great wakeup call it is. Fill out the LB and EN questionnaires. Vow to spend 20 hours a week together in non-chore/kids/work time. Reinvigorate your marriage.

But still check her phone, FOR SURE!


----------



## Gabriel

Reading all of this further, I get the impression that they became way too comfortable with each other over all these years, and it has now become inappropriate. 

Many affairs are gradual. Slowly lowering of boundaries until you get to a point where you're not sure where the lines are anymore. This is a 25 year friendship. It likely started with a tease, or a comment, that was not rejected. Then more came, then more, then a sarcastic "I love you too" kiss right in front of you because, well, it's all comfortable and long-standing.

You are doing the right thing by demanding NC. This must be held firm. Be ready though, my guess is this guy has no clue what is going on. He is going to wonder WTF, why won't they return my calls anymore? At some point, you are going to have to tell him exactly why your friendship has to end. It won't just "go away" after 25 years. 

That's why I recommend ripping off the bandaid now. If you don't, it's just going to come back again. Do you really think he'll just think months and years of not seeing you is normal? You're going to have to deal with him at some point.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Gabriel said:


> Do you really think he'll just think months and years of not seeing you and your wife is normal?


Sorry, great post, but I had to add a small part. It's an inappropriate relationship, he got two kisses plus flirting, he is going to reach out to her, IMO, before you.


----------



## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> OP, my advice is to lay the law down to your wife. No repeats of the inappropriate contact will be tolerated. Period...end of story. And stick to it.
> Then keep a casual eye on her activities. At this point, that is all you really need to do. Disregard all of the convoluted, elaborate amd dramatic scenerios, and all of the Gestapo ideas.


Agreed mentioning Gestapo as it pertains to a husband especially when he is being very passive is just nuckenfutts and inflammatory.

Indeed be prepared for drama.


----------



## Entropy3000

Not the real me said:


> Not a troll. This is a real event and yes I am in the uk so been home and sleeping. Was posting yesterday whilst at work. She's clear as to what I want and so far is doing her best to tow the line. Ive withdrawn my emotions towards her. We always had a good loving relationship, hence why I didn't over react at any of the earlier incidents. I'm biding my time. I'm a patient man and her next move will ease my decision on my next step. Yesterday I was genuinely overwhelmed by you guys responses and support. I'd have no fear on knocking him out. But I'm bigger than that. My taking away the security and love I've always given her would hurt her more than me giving him a good hiding. I do think she is sensing this now. So time will tell.


One word of caution. Time is NOT on your side if this is a budding EA. So behind the scenes you must investigate. Others can tell you what and how. 

She must be verifiably NC. If she is in n EA she will need to go through withdrawal. Just like a drug. Same brain chemicals involved. ANY contact whatsoever, no matter how seemingly insignificant typically starts the withdrawal clock over. Thinks months. Though be aware that NC is forever.

One does not assume there is no EA. You need to assume there is until proved otherwise. Err on the side of caution. 

Again this can and should be done behind the scenes. Hoping the issue goes away is not an engaged strategy. Not saying you are. But you have been very passive up and until this point. Turning that around takes a concerted effort.


----------



## Entropy3000

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Right.
> 
> I see Godwin made an appearance.
> [email protected] Hyperbole.OP hasn't killed, tortured, abused, forced her to sign a confession through threats of harm or falsely imprisoned his wife. You've already taken it slow, four years of this is ridiculous. Looking at phone records and a VAR is not guns blazing. This isn't your innocent wife, who never made you suspicious, it is a wife, by your own words, who has done disrespectful things on at least three specific occasions that you have mentioned. Plus, other incidents you are subtly addressing.


Passive aggressive comments. The inability to see shades of gray.

Like anything not totally passive / submissive is somehow Gestapo.

Nothing but fear involved. Paralyzing fear of action.

FUD. Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

_Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt. -- Art Of War


_

This tells me some folks do not know how to be assertive without going ballistic. Just foreign territory to them perhaps. The unknown. The out of the comfort zone area. Much easier to crawl under a warm blanket of hoping for the best while sipping some chamomile tea. Having an on and off button and unable to adjust intensity. Fight or flight. 

I love my inner Neanderthal.  I need him when I have to act to protect my family.


----------



## bandit.45

davecarter said:


> 1 - High standards I guess
> 
> 2 - UK


Come over to Arizona. You'll love it. We have hot sunshine here and hotter women who would dig an English guy.


----------



## EI

Not the real me said:


> Phone will be checked this evening. Both physically and bill. I have set the boundaries as regards zero contact with OM so if she crossed that line then there is no grey areas. She is in no doubt as to how I feel. but like I say, after being together 27 1/2 years and never having reason to doubt or mistrust her I am willing to give her a degree of benefit of doubt.


You don't need to go all Neanderthal, yet. Just practice due diligence by checking her phone AND her phone records and insisting that your wife maintain no contact with this man (yes, even if it completely screws up your social circle, because your family is more important than who you go out to dinner or watch ball games with.) 

A very common thing for cheaters to do is to put their AP's phone number under a different name in their cell phone. So, if you notice on your wife's cell phone, or on her cell phone bill, that she is talking/texting at all hours of the day/night with the sweet little old gray haired lady who answers the phones in the office where your wife works, it's probably not really the sweet little old lady's phone number..... Capisce? 

Finally, my husband and I had been married nearly 27 years, and together for 30, when my affair began. And, though our marriage was already terribly dysfunctional and broken before my A, my husband didn't think I would cheat on him, either. I'm not saying that your wife is cheating, because I don't know, but there are dozens of threads in CWI where affairs are occurring after 25 or more years of marriage. It's far more common than you may think.

You've seen enough red flags, already, to warrant a closer look. I suspect that looking at her cell phone and her phone bill will tell you everything you need to know. 

I think it takes a particularly bold and arrogant WS/AP to kiss and say "I love you," while in the BS's own home, with the BS there, no less. It shows an extreme lack of respect. I think affairs are always about a lack of respect, but that might be a discussion for another thread.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> I was responding to EleGirl's comment, not yours.
> 
> Having said that, if my wife did that, she would be taking a taxi back and sleeping at her moms that night and probably for a week or so afterward. This is not proper behavior in any way shape or form. I would tell her that if she wants to kiss other men and tell them she loves them, she can fvcking well do it as a single woman. Your wife was out of line.
> 
> And I'm amazed at the minimizing Im seeing from posters on here who damn well should know better.


Bandit, for once I fully agree with you.


----------



## sidney2718

EI said:


> You don't need to go all Neanderthal, yet. Just practice due diligence by checking her phone AND her phone records and insisting that your wife maintain no contact with this man (yes, even if it completely screws up your social circle, because your family is more important than who you go out to dinner or watch ball games with.)
> 
> A very common thing for cheaters to do is to put their AP's phone number under a different name in their cell phone. So, if you notice on your wife's cell phone, or on her cell phone bill, that she is talking/texting at all hours of the day/night with the sweet little old gray haired lady who answers the phones in the office where your wife works, it's probably not really the sweet little old lady's phone number..... Capisce?
> 
> Finally, my husband and I had been married nearly 27 years, and together for 30, when my affair began. And, though our marriage was already terribly dysfunctional and broken before my A, my husband didn't think I would cheat on him, either. I'm not saying that your wife is cheating, because I don't know, but there are dozens of threads in CWI where affairs are occurring after 25 or more years of marriage. It's far more common than you may think.
> 
> You've seen enough red flags, already, to warrant a closer look. I suspect that looking at her cell phone and her phone bill will tell you everything you need to know.
> 
> I think it takes a particularly bold and arrogant WS/AP to kiss and say "I love you," while in the BS's own home, with the BS there, no less. It shows an extreme lack of respect. I think affairs are always about a lack of respect, but that might be a discussion for another thread.


And the AP's own wife present. Even if I did nothing else I'd have said something to her like "Does he always behave this way or did you leave his muzzle home tonight?"


----------



## Chaparral

She said "I love you too.". As in

"I love you."
"I love you too."

Or 

"I love your hooters!"
"I love you too!" She said sarcastically.

Or 

"Nice a$$!"
"I love you too!" She said kissing him on the mouth and sweetly holding his cheeks with both hands.


----------



## thummper

Not the real me said:


> She knows how I feel. She has agreed to no contact and we never have to see them again. I said nothing at the time as I was shocked by it and not normally a jealous person. His wife was with us on the night out but she must have missed tor ignored the kiss. *My wife says it was a friendly peck. *I was going to visit him to call him out but she stopped me as she said I would be the one ending up in jail.


From the description you gave, it sure as hell didn't sound like a "friendly peck" to me.


----------



## Rookie4

ReidWright said:


> yes, trust but verify.
> 
> and don't mention a word of it to her...ever. Otherwise that information source will be gone forever, and she'll just gaslight you to minimize whatever you find.
> 
> and don't confront until you have a solid plan


Oh, yes. The situation will be helped by the OP lying to his wife about his undercover activities. Good Idea.


----------



## Rookie4

thummper said:


> I applaud your restraint! If I'd seen my wife kissing another man, the cops would have been hauling me off in handcuffs and, hopefully, the offending om would have been sporting a nice, puffy black eye.


AS I said before, inciting violence or advocating it can land you in BAN Land. It happened to me. So you might want to tone it down a bit.


----------



## thummper

So who's advocating violence? I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything.


----------



## Rookie4

OP, you COULD go Neanderthal, like some posters would have you do. (Of course you realize that modern man made the Neanderthal, extinct, don't you? Because modern man could reason ) And that is what you should do, use your head, and formulate a plan that is appropriate to the situation. At this stage, the sledgehammer approach might work, or it might rebound on you, or it might end your marriage. Want to take that chance? Especially when you have so little real evidence of anything other than flirtations?
You have already started the process, by setting her boundaries, and getting her to agree with you. Checking the phone records is perfectly appropriate, given the circumstances. Checking her E-mails and such , is something you and her need to discuss. Remember, she is your wife, NOT your enemy. VARS, polygraphs, and the like, are way too premature, at this stage. You can always escalate at a later time. One thing you need to do urgently, is set down and discuss your future. Find out what she feels about the marriage and tell her how you feel. Setting appropriate boundaries, and sticking to them, adamantly....., working on your marital communications, and being aware of her actions, will do better than aggression, mistrust, deceit, and jealousy.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> ...of course you realize that modern man made the Neanderthal, extinct, don't you? Because modern man could reason...


Eh...

How Neanderthals Became Extinct - CNRS Web site - CNRS

In other words... yes, but no. Strictly speaking, it was likely a combination of (a) an inability to adapt in the face of climate change, (b) "competitive exclusion" (racially-driven semi-passive violence), and (c) overt violence.

Soooo... any advantage that modern man had over the neanderthal in terms of "reasoning" was directed toward both (b) and (c).


----------



## Entropy3000

Some seem to fear an assertive quality man.
Having the ability to think, reason and in general having integrity in no way is incompatible with manliness.

These abilities are the antithesis of passivity and submissiveness in a man or a woman for that matter. One can be compassionate, kind and loving and still be in concert with their maleness. In fact I contend any man who cannot be these things is not much of a man.

I also think that the behavior of both the wife and the friend are the concern here. Their activities are much more primal.

But enough about "men" here and demeaning rhetoric towards a gender. While we can tell the other person to man-up in reality this scenario calls for gender non-specific action..

I can tell you my advice to a wife whose husband was doing what the wife has been doing would be the same. She would need to investigate. Her being passive and accepting would in no way be the right thing to do.

The OP needs to assess the damage to the marriage. Stop the bleeding. You cannot fix things unless you have an understanding of what you are fixing. So he must use his head here and not put it in the sand. Use that brain. This IS Darwinian. The OP has asserted their boundaries here. Very good. Not taking the next steps to confirm runs the risk of rug sweeping. If there is an active affair this just pushes it underground.

You have to understand that a person in an affair is not thinking rationally. It is actually MORE compassionate to realize this and try and save the marriage. It is an act of love. It is a show of intelligence in this modern world to understand these things. I totally get not wanting to accept this. BUT if he wants to ensure the integrity of his marriage he will not be manipulated or shamed into non action. There is nothing wrong with him engaging his brain and assessing the damage. All is fair in love and war seems appropriate here. And this is war.

Then, when a full blown affair is eliminated from the list of possible things, she can go full NC. After a couple of months they can start to assess the marriage. Until then *her thought process is impaire*d.

I suggest that they then do His Needs Her Needs together to address their relationship. It also comes with them discussing, defining, agreeing on and implementing better boundaries. But the key is that doing HNHN can potentially bring them together and address unmet needs.

Ambivalence is not a strategy for saving a marriage.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> OP, you COULD go Neanderthal, like some posters would have you do. (Of course you realize that modern man made the Neanderthal, extinct, don't you? Because modern man could reason ) And that is what you should do, use your head, and formulate a plan that is appropriate to the situation. At this stage, the sledgehammer approach might work, or it might rebound on you, or it might end your marriage. Want to take that chance? Especially when you have so little real evidence of anything other than flirtations?


 I usually like your "see the other side" comments, but in this thread it is just extremely strange. Three sets of kisses, with two different scenarios, that are according to you, based on "what if she is innocent" and "flirtations." Nope, in this thread, I just don't understand your minimization or compartmentalization of the kisses unless, there is some projection going on.


> You can always escalate at a later time.


Nope the kisses, with the same guy, have already happened. Seriously, if you even contemplate Rookie's advice, discussing anything but texts with the wife, you have her open those logs right then and there during the discussion. Nope, she doesn't get a choice as her kisses have already used "aggression, mistrust, deceit, and jealousy."


----------



## Rookie4

Yep, jump up, pound your chest, start berating her, spying on her, and making accusations without proof, that's the way to fix the problem. Demand that she give you all of her passwords, etc, take a lie detector test, do all kinds of electronic spying, cross examine her, and brand her a cheater. Whine , snarl and growl. That will surely make her love, and respect you more, and be more honest with you. 
But, God forbid, you should actually try to communicatewith her, and find out what her thinking is, or what she is feeling. that, of course, means you're weak . Great thinking.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> Yep, jump up, pound your chest, start berating her, spying on her, and making accusations without proof, that's the way to fix the problem. Demand that she give you all of her passwords, etc, take a lie detector test, do all kinds of electronic spying, cross examine her, and brand her a cheater. Whine , snarl and growl. That will surely make her love, and respect you more, and be more honest with you.
> But, God forbid, you should actually try to communicatewith her, and find out what her thinking is, or what she is feeling. that, of course, means you're weak . Great thinking.


No berating and no accusations, at least not w/o proof. That said, _start digging_. After all, almost no one hiding an affair is going to just come clean and confess it after settling into a campaign of denying, lying, gaslighting, etc.

No jumping around or chest-pounding, but define, _discuss_ and *ENFORCE* boundaries w/ respect to what you do and don't feel to be acceptable.

These things can be done w/o acting so comically brutish that an animal-hide leotard and wooden club would be appropriate for use as more than just a Halloween costume.

And yes, COMMUNICATE.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> No berating and no accusations, at least not w/o proof. That said, _start digging_. After all, almost no one hiding an affair is going to just come clean and confess it after settling into a campaign of denying, lying, gaslighting, etc.
> 
> No jumping around or chest-pounding, but define, _discuss_ and *ENFORCE* boundaries w/ respect to what you do and don't feel to be acceptable.
> 
> These things can be done w/o acting so comically brutish that an animal-hide leotard and wooden club would be appropriate for use as more than just a Halloween costume.
> 
> And yes, COMMUNICATE.


Or, how about trying to communicate first? Gus, how does the OP know what to do, if he doesn't even know what his wife is thinking? Instead of making half-a$$ed assumptions, why not try to learn what the real problems are? I have never heard of a woman who wouldn't talk your ear off about relationship problems. Nor have I ever heard of a cheater who would be so stupid as to advertise her affair so blatantly.This just doesn't ring true, unless she is done with the marriage and doesn't care if the OP knows. Which doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm betting that it is some light flirting on her part, but some serious lust on the part of the OM, that has gotten out of hand. .


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> Or, how about trying to communicate first? Gus, how does the OP know what to do, if he doesn't even know what his wife is thinking? Instead of making half-a$$ed assumptions, why not try to learn what the real problems are? I have never heard of a woman who wouldn't talk your ear off about relationship problems. Nor have I ever heard of a cheater who would be so stupid as to advertise her affair so blatantly.This just doesn't ring true, unless she is done with the marriage and doesn't care if the OP knows. Which doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm betting that it is some light flirting on her part, but some serious lust on the part of the OM, that has gotten out of hand. .


Fair enough, but...

OP's wife kissed OM. She told OM that she loved him. OP heard this. How much more should he really need to hear? After all, what she says to OM is likely to be much more meaningful than what she says to OP.

And sure... talk. But OP should "listen" to what his wife does as much as he listens to what she says. And again... if she is cheating (not convinced either way, by the way), she's not at all likely to confess to it when pressed. He's already done that, and _she's only recently agreed to NC w/ this guy, though w/o confessing to anything that she deems inappropriate, or even respecting that OP is right to feel the way that he does w/ respect to her interactions w/ OM._ Given this, it's now time to confirm that she's truly committed to NC.

Additionally, if there is an affair going on here, it's likely ramped up very gradually over the years, and has been nothing but fueled by OP's relative passiveness w/ respect to setting and enforcing boundaries. After all, people tend to get more blatant and overt when doing things that they know they shouldn't be doing, *ESPECIALLY* when they've been shown no consequences or repercussions for their actions.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> Or, how about trying to communicate first?


 He did. They had conversations about his perceived jealousy. So, why didn't she communicate the problems then? This has been brewing for four years and she kissed a guy, saying "I love you." Sorry, nothing innocent, light or flirtatious in my opinion.


> I have never heard of a woman who wouldn't talk your ear off about relationship problems.


 I guess we don't read the same threads because it happens all of the time on TAM. 



> Nor have I ever heard of a cheater who would be so stupid as to advertise her affair so blatantly.This just doesn't ring true, unless she is done with the marriage and doesn't care if the OP knows. Which doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm betting that it is some light flirting on her part, but some serious lust on the part of the OM, that has gotten out of hand. .


This is four years of passivity, I've read it in threads and witnessed it twice. It's not pretty and I'd love to be wrong. 27 years is a long time to be unhappy the last few years. She reached over and kissed him if there is lust, it is in equal parts OM and his wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> Yep, jump up, pound your chest, start berating her, spying on her, and making accusations without proof, that's the way to fix the problem. Demand that she give you all of her passwords, etc, take a lie detector test, do all kinds of electronic spying, cross examine her, and brand her a cheater. Whine , snarl and growl. That will surely make her love, and respect you more, and be more honest with you.
> But, God forbid, you should actually try to communicatewith her, and find out what her thinking is, or what she is feeling. that, of course, means you're weak . Great thinking.


Besides the gender bashing rhetoric... only you can have a clue as to what that is all about ... you seem to discount or perhaps are unaware of affair biology. Birds and the bees does not seem adequate these days.

Affairs are not about reasoning. They are chemical in nature. Oxytocin and Dopamine are two key chemicals. At some point they can become so strong that the person in the affair does not even realize how serious it is until they go through withdrawal. I can speak from this not just in observation but from personal experience. 

You do not reason someone out of an affair. If they were reasonable they would not be acting out in this manner. You do not give blind trust to someone who demonstrates they cannot be trusted. He needs to determine what the level of betrayal is here. Her actions indicate to a thinking spouse a need to find out how far this has gone. AND to monitor whether this has gone underground.

Conflict avoidance IS weak. It is also not loving.

He needs to see how deep this goes before he can trust her again. IF she is in an affair she will not be capable of working on the primary relationship until she ends the affair and goes through withdrawal.

Dealing with an affair takes tough love, just as dealing with an addict. But just like a disease early detection is critical. When your brakes are squeaking you deal with them right away. You do not wait for the inevitable damage and possible carnage avoidance brings.

And really why is it on him anyway. She is the one acting out. Being inappropriate and humiliating him in front of others. Her behavior is unfaithful. He has done nothing wrong except to allow this for so long. But she is the unfaithful one.


----------



## davecarter

bandit.45 said:


> Come over to Arizona. You'll love it. We have hot sunshine here and hotter women who would dig an English guy.


Yup, always preferred American women to English. Almost made it over for good a few years ago, too.
Unfortunately, I've found that the _'I really like your accent' _myth is just that - a myth.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Rookie4 said:


> OP, you COULD go Neanderthal, like some posters would have you do. (Of course you realize that modern man made the Neanderthal, extinct, don't you? Because modern man could reason ) And that is what you should do, use your head, and formulate a plan that is appropriate to the situation. At this stage, the sledgehammer approach might work, or it might rebound on you, or it might end your marriage. Want to take that chance? Especially when you have so little real evidence of anything other than flirtations?
> You have already started the process, by setting her boundaries, and getting her to agree with you. Checking the phone records is perfectly appropriate, given the circumstances. Checking her E-mails and such , is something you and her need to discuss. Remember, she is your wife, NOT your enemy. VARS, polygraphs, and the like, are way too premature, at this stage. You can always escalate at a later time. One thing you need to do urgently, is set down and discuss your future. Find out what she feels about the marriage and tell her how you feel. Setting appropriate boundaries, and sticking to them, adamantly....., working on your marital communications, and being aware of her actions, will do better than aggression, mistrust, deceit, and jealousy.


All this is useless if she is in the 'fog' already.


----------



## Forest

Someone around here has had far to much quiche.


----------



## weightlifter

The OP is doing fine. Jeez. Back off a bit. Unless he finds something in the phone/text/FB. Let him do basic diligence before going 100% 007.

Yes this is coming from infamous me.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> Fair enough, but...
> 
> OP's wife kissed OM. She told OM that she loved him. OP heard this. How much more should he really need to hear? After all, what she says to OM is likely to be much more meaningful than what she says to OP.
> 
> And sure... talk. But OP should "listen" to what his wife does as much as he listens to what she says. And again... if she is cheating (not convinced either way, by the way), she's not at all likely to confess to it when pressed. He's already done that, and _she's only recently agreed to NC w/ this guy, though w/o confessing to anything that she deems inappropriate, or even respecting that OP is right to feel the way that he does w/ respect to her interactions w/ OM._ Given this, it's now time to confirm that she's truly committed to NC.
> 
> Additionally, if there is an affair going on here, it's likely ramped up very gradually over the years, and has been nothing but fueled by OP's relative passiveness w/ respect to setting and enforcing boundaries. After all, people tend to get more blatant and overt when doing things that they know they shouldn't be doing, *ESPECIALLY* when they've been shown no consequences or repercussions for their actions.


If she is a cheater, she has a funny way of keeping it a secret, doesn't she? I agree with most of your post, Gus, but this is the part I have trouble with. Even if her husband was weak, ( which I AM NOT saying) there is the OM's GF who was also present during most of these encounters, and the likelihood of BOTH the OP and the GF letting this go, without even a comment, is pretty slim, if something major was truly happening.
I do believe that the OM wants to get his mitts on the OP's wife's upperworks, but I'm not convinced that the OP's wife is taking the OM's actions as seriously as she needs to. Perhaps the OP setting her new boundaries will act as a "wake up call", and no further action will be necessary. But , if I were the OP, I would still have a private" meeting" with the OM, anyway. And accidents do happen.


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> Besides the gender bashing rhetoric... only you can have a clue as to what that is all about ... you seem to discount or perhaps are unaware of affair biology. Birds and the bees does not seem adequate these days.
> 
> Affairs are not about reasoning. They are chemical in nature. Oxytocin and Dopamine are two key chemicals. At some point they can become so strong that the person in the affair does not even realize how serious it is until they go through withdrawal. I can speak from this not just in observation but from personal experience.
> 
> You do not reason someone out of an affair. If they were reasonable they would not be acting out in this manner. You do not give blind trust to someone who demonstrates they cannot be trusted. He needs to determine what the level of betrayal is here. Her actions indicate to a thinking spouse a need to find out how far this has gone. AND to monitor whether this has gone underground.
> 
> Conflict avoidance IS weak. It is also not loving.
> 
> He needs to see how deep this goes before he can trust her again. IF she is in an affair she will not be capable of working on the primary relationship until she ends the affair and goes through withdrawal.
> 
> Dealing with an affair takes tough love, just as dealing with an addict. But just like a disease early detection is critical. When your brakes are squeaking you deal with them right away. You do not wait for the inevitable damage and possible carnage avoidance brings.
> 
> And really why is it on him anyway. She is the one acting out. Being inappropriate and humiliating him in front of others. Her behavior is unfaithful. He has done nothing wrong except to allow this for so long. But she is the unfaithful one.


Dude, you need to lighten up a little and show the OP a little more respect. What you see as his weakness and passivity , is nothing more than uncertainty about his wife's actions and their meaning , AND IN NO WAY, mean that he is a weakling. 
As far as your pseudo-scientific stuff, these are adult human beings, not mindless monkeys. It is far better for the OP, given that he wants to protect his marriage, to look at facts, not speculation and half-a$$ed website theories. He needs to THINK, not feel.


----------



## turnera

Rookie4 said:


> If she is a cheater, she has a funny way of keeping it a secret, doesn't she? I agree with most of your post, Gus, but this is the part I have trouble with. Even if her husband was weak, there is the OM's GF who was also present during most of these encounters, and the likelihood of BOTH the OP and the GF letting this go, without even a comment, is pretty slim, if something major was truly happening.


I agree. And I see this kind of stuff going on all the time. It's just something adults segue into after years, decades, of being comfortable around each other. I've told other men, close friends, that I loved them. Because I do. They're great friends and I love them as friends. I've even kissed one goodbye - and yes, in front of my husband, about 15 years ago. Nothing was going on, nothing ever WILL go on, it's just how this particular group of friends is; they hug, they kiss, they're just comfortable with each other. But none of them is cheating. It was a sign of affection for a friend and nothing ever progressed. It was so innocuous it was never even thought of again, not til this thread appeared.


----------



## Rookie4

See_Listen_Love said:


> All this is useless if she is in the 'fog' already.


The"fog" is a bogus concept. Like saying that "the devil made me do it" it is nothing more than an excuse.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He did. They had conversations about his perceived jealousy. So, why didn't she communicate the problems then? This has been brewing for four years and she kissed a guy, saying "I love you." Sorry, nothing innocent, light or flirtatious in my opinion. I guess we don't read the same threads because it happens all of the time on TAM.
> 
> 
> This is four years of passivity, I've read it in threads and witnessed it twice. It's not pretty and I'd love to be wrong. 27 years is a long time to be unhappy the last few years. She reached over and kissed him if there is lust, it is in equal parts OM and his wife.


I agree with a lot of what you say, Phil, I just don't think that this is serious enough to warrant full-on affair mode, just yet.I don't agree that the OP has been "passive' at all. You can't have it both ways. This has been brewing for four years, and the OP's resentment has had four years of increasing, as well. Why are you and Entropy putting the honus on the OP because he didn't read the OM and his wife's minds from the first? He is processing this as he goes and is taking reasonable precautions as this situation plays out. Some posters Insults like calling him weak and passive do not help him at all.


----------



## Rookie4

turnera said:


> I agree. And I see this kind of stuff going on all the time. It's just something adults segue into after years, decades, of being comfortable around each other. I've told other men, close friends, that I loved them. Because I do. They're great friends and I love them as friends. I've even kissed one goodbye - and yes, in front of my husband, about 15 years ago. Nothing was going on, nothing ever WILL go on, it's just how this particular group of friends is; they hug, they kiss, they're just comfortable with each other. But none of them is cheating. It was a sign of affection for a friend and nothing ever progressed. It was so innocuous it was never even thought of again, not til this thread appeared.


Absolutely right. Close friends do it all of the time. I have kissed lots and lots of women friends and told a fair number of them that I love them, I still do, and my GF doesn't go ape-sh*t about it.


----------



## aug

OK. But do any of you hint about wanting sex with them, as in the situation of this thread?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

There is a reason his radar is going off.... wait for it....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

weightlifter said:


> The OP is doing fine. Jeez. Back off a bit. Unless he finds something in the phone/text/FB. Let him do basic diligence before going 100% 007.
> 
> Yes this is coming from infamous me.


LOL. I hate when you skim threads.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

turnera said:


> I agree. And I see this kind of stuff going on all the time. It's just something adults segue into after years, decades, of being comfortable around each other. I've told other men, close friends, that I loved them. Because I do. They're great friends and I love them as friends. I've even kissed one goodbye - and yes, in front of my husband, about 15 years ago. Nothing was going on, nothing ever WILL go on, it's just how this particular group of friends is; they hug, they kiss, they're just comfortable with each other. But none of them is cheating. It was a sign of affection for a friend and nothing ever progressed. It was so innocuous it was never even thought of again, not til this thread appeared.


 In context to the OP, no it isn't something adults segue into. A Kiss on the cheek yes, a hug yes, even a friendly I love you sure no problem. All of this coupled with breast comments, flirtations, "I Love you too," a kissing bread stick game and repeated suggestive sexual innuendos no. If I remove context from many of these threads, there is not a single way ward spouse on TAM. I have ZERO friends who would find it appropriate to comment on my wife's breast size in front of me or to my wife within earshot. So, we will disagree on your example of innocuous as it isn't in the same realm with other baggage attached.

As I am now going in circles with two people, I'll end my portion of the derail. Thanks for the lively discussion Rookie. Please note I just said check electronic media, I didn't call him weak, didn't suggest a polygraph and didn't say he should use a VAR. I said I don't see a VAR in the same light as you.


----------



## turnera

aug said:


> OK. But do any of you hint about wanting sex with them, as in the situation of this thread?


Are you referring to the very first post? Or were there more incidents that I missed? If you're referring to the first post, I see a lot of pushing on HIS part and nothing sexual on her part. And OP has dealt with that.


----------



## turnera

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I have ZERO friends who would find it appropriate to comment on my wife's breast size in front of me or to my wife within earshot.


Neither do I. And you did not see me include anything inappropriate like that, either, did you?


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I have ZERO friends who would find it appropriate to comment on my wife's breast size in front of me or to my wife. So, we will disagree on you example. So, no, it isn't something adults segue into. A Kiss on the cheek yes, a hug yes, even a friendly I love you sure no problem. All of this coupled with breast comments, flirtations, "I Love you too" kissing bread stick game and repeated suggestive sexual innuendos no. If I remove context from many of these threads, there is not a single way ward spouse on TAM.
> 
> We will disagree and as I am now going in circles with two people, I'll end my portion of the derail. Thanks for the lively discussion Rookie. Please note I just said check electronic media, I didn't call him weak, didn't suggest a polygraph and didn't say he should use a VAR. I said I don't see a VAR in the same light as you.


Not a problem, Phil. For the record, I think many of your points are valid, but against the OM. The OP's wife has been shockingly lax in her handling of this guy, I agree, but as to her mindset, we will have to wait for the OP to give us an update.


----------



## Rookie4

aug said:


> OK. But do any of you hint about wanting sex with them, as in the situation of this thread?


This is all on the OM. the OP's wife has not ever, to our knowledge ,hinted at anything sexual.


----------



## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, you need to lighten up a little and show the OP a little more respect. What you see as his weakness and passivity , is nothing more than uncertainty about his wife's actions and their meaning , AND IN NO WAY, mean that he is a weakling.
> As far as your pseudo-scientific stuff, these are adult human beings, not mindless monkeys. It is far better for the OP, given that he wants to protect his marriage, to look at facts, not speculation and half-a$$ed website theories. He needs to THINK, not feel.


I speak from experience. There is nothing pseudo science about it.

Fear Uncertainty and Doubt is not what he needs.

This is not a lighten up thing. Many people look at their marriage as important to them. For many the most important aspect of their lives. Minimizing does not help.

Indeed if you actually read my advice you will see that it is far from mindlessness.

EAs are an addiction. That impairs thinking. You are discounting this for whatever reason.

There is no anger in my posts but you want to lash out for some reason. Advice is one thing. Bashing / lashing out with inflammatory rhetoric is another. I will let you go and just use the ignore feature so I can not see the bashing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Rookie4 said:


> This is all on the OM. the OP's wife has not ever, to our knowledge ,hinted at anything sexual.


She kissed him full on the mouth. She has not shut him down. The OM is not the issue. He did not take vows. Yes he is culpable. But his wife is his main concern.

At this point I am willing to just say we fundamentally disagree. So will not be replying to you on this any more. You have a right to your views and I mine. I will continue to engage here. The ignore feature is our friend.


----------



## doubletrouble

Not the real me said:


> Nice to get a womans perspective on things. I have always been a nice guy and 27 years together says that that was enough for her. Mid life crisis? She's 43, I'm 44. I've given her the benefit of the doubt as I know we can all do things we regret when drunk. But I found this forum looking for answers just after it happened and was convinced I was making more of it then there was.
> It is doing my head in now though because *the only answers I get from her is that she doesn't know why she did it and she cant remember what was said*.


Bull. She remembers it all. Gaslighting.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

turnera said:


> And you did not see me include anything inappropriate like that, either, did you?


LOLOLOLOLOLOL. I explained my position and my point clearly. Reel in the hook, I'm not biting.


----------



## treyvion

sidney2718 said:


> Bandit, for once I fully agree with you.


I just want to add. Minimizing hurtful actions can be a really bad thing. Because it can affect your state of mind and make you minimize yourself in comparison to the actions or the one issuing them. It is an accumulative type effect.

Of course if you move on with your life, you would completely take this wife out of your personal feedback loop.

But while you got her, you cannot minimize her hurtful actions and statements. 

Sometimes on a technical level some "tit for tat" must be done. Sometimes it's the only way to communicate with someone who is affecting you.


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> She kissed him full on the mouth. She has not shut him down. The OM is not the issue. He did not take vows. Yes he is culpable. But hi wife is his main concern.
> 
> But at this point I am willing to just say we fundamentally disagree. So will not be replying to you on this any more. You have a right to your views and I mine. I will continue to engage here. The ignore feature is our friend.


For somebody who wants to ignore me, you seem to find a lot to talk about.


----------



## Rookie4

treyvion said:


> I just want to add. Minimizing hurtful actions can be a really bad thing. Because it can affect your state of mind and make you minimize yourself in comparison to the actions or the one issuing them. It is an accumulative type effect.
> 
> Of course if you move on with your life, you would completely take this wife out of your personal feedback loop.
> 
> But while you got her, you cannot minimize her hurtful actions and statements.
> 
> Sometimes on a technical level some "tit for tat" must be done. Sometimes it's the only way to communicate with someone who is affecting you.


Nobody has ever suggested that the OP minimize anything. What is being suggested is that the OP work on this issue in a reasonable and calm frame of mind, and not overreact.


----------



## doubletrouble

Not the real me said:


> The earlier incidents I didn't react to wasn't the kissing. It's the kiss that's caused then reaction. That's why I'm here now. I'm monitoring things. Gathering evidence. Looking for little slip ups or proofs of untruths. All guns blazing isn't my style.* I'm taking my time and doing this right*.


Begging your pardon, but you're not. Whlie you're taking your time, he's taking your wife. Even if they haven't had sex, it's an affair, stuck right in your face. 

I agree with what Gus said, anyone did that with my W and I'd hit them like a freight train. And I'm not prone to violence. 

During my first marriage I used to say, "If someone can steal her form me, he can have her." Someone did, although they hid it, instead of putting it in my face.

Llive and learn, brother. Learn from those of us who have gone through this, or learn by going through it yourself. Either way, your lesson plan has been written.


----------



## ReidWright

doubletrouble said:


> Begging your pardon, but you're not. Whlie you're taking your time, he's taking your wife. Even if they haven't had sex, it's an affair, stuck right in your face.


he's gathering evidence (Right, OP, right?) and she's agreed to no contact. Nothing more to do except verify NC now.

I wonder how easily she agreed to NC? Apparently she realizes there's something to OP's claims. Surely if there was nothing to worry about she would not agreed to cut contact with such old friends. I assume they aren't seeing the wife either.


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> She kissed him full on the mouth. She has not shut him down. The OM is not the issue. He did not take vows. Yes he is culpable. But hi wife is his main concern.
> 
> But at this point I am willing to just say we fundamentally disagree. So will not be replying to you on this any more. You have a right to your views and I mine. I will continue to engage here. The ignore feature is our friend.


So have I, what of it? I have kissed a LOT of women on the mouth, even old grannies. Culturally, many people kiss on the mouth, and that doesn't make them hot for each other, does it? The French kiss all of the time. Even men kissing men.....so what?
I had a friend in HS who was Greek and his Dad kissed him before football games. A lot of the guys made fun of him, until he f**ked up a couple, then they let him alone. I have a close female friend that I have kissed on the lips about a thousand times over the years. Told her I love her about as many times. AND, she has really big Gozongas. So what? What the OP needs to find out is his wife's mindset, not YOUR opinion of his wife's morals.


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> I speak from experience. There is nothing pseudo science about it.
> 
> Fear Uncertainty and Doubt is not what he needs.
> 
> This is not a lighten up thing. Many people look at their marriage as important to them. For many the most important aspect of their lives. Minimizing does not help.
> 
> Indeed if you actually read my advice you will see that it is far from mindlessness.
> 
> EAs are an addiction. That impairs thinking. You are discounting this for whatever reason.
> 
> There is no anger in my posts but you want to lash out for some reason. Advice is one thing. Bashing / lashing out with inflammatory rhetoric is another. I will let you go and just use the ignore feature so I can not see the bashing.


Lash out? Bashing? Dude , you need to calm down. I disagree with you, but I'm certainly not bashing you.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReidWright said:


> he's gathering evidence (Right, OP, right?) and she's agreed to no contact. Nothing more to do except verify NC now.
> 
> I wonder how easily she agreed to NC? Apparently she realizes there's something to OP's claims. Surely if there was nothing to worry about she would not agreed to cut contact with such old friends. I assume they aren't seeing the wife either.


Hopefully he is. 

Actually her being easy about this can be explained in many ways. Some good and some not so much. 

Indeed a spouse who is NOT guilty but values the marriage over outside friends would do this. Some people put friends above spouse. 

But then again if there is other unknown contact it just means she stays underground.

Assuming either without investigating would be unwise. However he can assume the former as long as he validates this within reason.


----------



## Rookie4

ReidWright said:


> he's gathering evidence (Right, OP, right?) and she's agreed to no contact. Nothing more to do except verify NC now.
> 
> I wonder how easily she agreed to NC? Apparently she realizes there's something to OP's claims. Surely if there was nothing to worry about she would not agreed to cut contact with such old friends. I assume they aren't seeing the wife either.


Good post. I can't decide if the OP's wife is really, really devious or clueless. By being so blatant, it could go either way.


----------



## Rookie4

OP, that's a good question. what is your wife's cultural background? Do they habitually kiss in her family? Also, is she a "touchy, feely" kind of person?


----------



## ReidWright

Rookie4 said:


> OP, that's a good question. what is your wife's cultural background? Do they habitually kiss in her family? Also, is she a "touchy, feely" kind of person?


and the guy too?... I guarantee if the guy is called out publicly, the first thing he'll say is, "Oh! I'm like that with everyone!" or "I guess I'm just a big flirt HA HA", followed by a mocking "Soorrrryyyy!"


----------



## Marduk

treyvion said:


> Sometimes on a technical level some "tit for tat" must be done. Sometimes it's the only way to communicate with someone who is affecting you.


Doing what my wife was doing (in this case going out and away all the time) is the _only_ thing that worked with my wife.

Otherwise I was just being insecure and overbearing about everything. (Her words).


----------



## treyvion

marduk said:


> Doing what my wife was doing (in this case going out and away all the time) is the _only_ thing that worked with my wife.
> 
> Otherwise I was just being insecure and overbearing about everything. (Her words).


Thank you. I'm in a situation where I know it's the right thing to do.

It's just hard to get into that self embellishing mode while i'm in a relationship like when I was much younger. I know it needs to be done to change the balance and the flow of attention.

I know I need to hit it hard and fast like the money train.


----------



## JerryB

While I hope that nothing has been going on between your wife & the kissy 'friend', I believe that long term, the only real solution here is to get yourself into a mindset where you're not such a chicken**** in real life that you can speak up publicly and loudly, and shut down activities WHEN THEY OCCUR.

You've given numerous examples of times you just sat and watched.
The "desert" & fruit conversation, so to speak, is a prime example of one you should have stopped right then and there. Not sure if 'melons' has the double meaning in UK as it does in the US. 

Your non-actions speak volumes.


----------



## turnera

marduk said:


> Doing what my wife was doing (in this case going out and away all the time) is the _only_ thing that worked with my wife.
> 
> Otherwise I was just being insecure and overbearing about everything. (Her words).


I'm actually a big fan of this. It works.


----------



## turnera

JerryB said:


> While I hope that nothing has been going on between your wife & the kissy 'friend', I believe that long term, the only real solution here is to get yourself into a mindset where you're not such a chicken**** in real life that you can speak up publicly and loudly, and shut down activities WHEN THEY OCCUR.
> 
> You've given numerous examples of times you just sat and watched.
> The "desert" & fruit conversation, so to speak, is a prime example of one you should have stopped right then and there. Not sure if 'melons' has the double meaning in UK as it does in the US.
> 
> Your non-actions speak volumes.


I completely agree. And don't think your wife wasn't a little disappointed, too.


----------



## Entropy3000

JerryB said:


> While I hope that nothing has been going on between your wife & the kissy 'friend', I believe that long term, the only real solution here is to get yourself into a mindset where you're not such a chicken**** in real life that you can speak up publicly and loudly, and shut down activities WHEN THEY OCCUR.
> 
> You've given numerous examples of times you just sat and watched.
> The "desert" & fruit conversation, so to speak, is a prime example of one you should have stopped right then and there. Not sure if 'melons' has the double meaning in UK as it does in the US.
> 
> Your non-actions speak volumes.


Yes!!!! Being able to deal with these things when they happen keeps them from building up and gaining momentum. You can also low key this more effectively. 

All sorts of goodness comes from being able to engage this more readily. Otherwise it is conflict avoidance. You can minimize the conflict in this way as well with some amount of finesse. Sometimes you have to be more blunt. But that is usually because things were allowed to get out of hand. deal with things when they are small.


----------



## naiveonedave

OMG - a woman suggests that you should c*ckbl*ck... (and yes you should.....). Thanks Turnera!


----------



## Graywolf2

OP, no matter what you did the right thing by confronting your wife. It showed her that you care. There is another thread here where a WW is blaming her affair partially on the fact that her husband was totally unconcerned about her girl’s night outs.

If you find anything on her phone I would get a cheap GPS that does not show where her car is in real time. You leave in on the car for a week then physically take it off and plug it into your computer. Then you can see where the car has been for the past week. The real time ones cost more.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> Lash out? Bashing? Dude , you need to calm down. I disagree with you, but I'm certainly not bashing you.


Here's the thing, which I find funny between genders, is we each see things as bashing the other does not. I think you are being passionate and a tad overzealous, but I could see why someone would see it as bashing. Just like I feel I wasn't bashing you or turnera, but I would understand if someone, even you two, felt that way.


----------



## vellocet

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He did. They had conversations about his perceived jealousy. So, why didn't she communicate the problems then? This has been brewing for four years and she kissed a guy, saying "I love you." Sorry, nothing innocent, light or flirtatious in my opinion. I guess we don't read the same threads because it happens all of the time on TAM.


Give it up, R is on her side.


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes!!!! Being able to deal with these things when they happen keeps them from building up and gaining momentum. You can also low key this more effectively.
> 
> All sorts of goodness comes from being able to engage this more readily. Otherwise it is conflict avoidance. You can minimize the conflict in this way as well with some amount of finesse. Sometimes you have to be more blunt. But that is usually because things were allowed to get out of hand. deal with things when they are small.


Best post you have made.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Here's the thing, which I find funny between genders, is we each see things as bashing the other does not. I think you are being passionate and a tad overzealous, but I could see why someone would see it as bashing. Just like I feel I wasn't bashing you or turnera, but I would understand if someone, even you two, felt that way.


I never complained about getting bashed, but then again, I'm man enough to take it. I have been called names a lot, but it doesn't bother me. I do object , however, to posters dissing the OP. He doesn't deserve that.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> Give it up, R is on her side.


 I must be doing something right, because Vellocet follows me around to make his snide little passive aggressive comments. Most posters know that this post of yours is simply no true. I have never expressed support for the wife, at all. but , of course, the truth won't stop you, will it?


----------



## turnera

naiveonedave said:


> OMG - a woman suggests that you should c*ckbl*ck... (and yes you should.....). Thanks Turnera!


It's basic psychology. We want what we can't have (or might lose), and take for granted what we 'know' we have.


----------



## Rookie4

turnera said:


> It's basic psychology. We want what we can't have (or might lose), and take for granted what we 'know' we have.


 So, what is she guilty of?


----------



## turnera

Rookie4 said:


> So, what is she guilty of?


Guilt has nothing to do with it. But I suppose you could extrapolate that she isn't stupid, so she knows letting him tease her about her body and flirt with her - whether she wanted something in return or not - was wrong. So her husband doing the same thing and flirting with someone else would just drive home to her the feeling HE had watching her. Which, IMO, is what this is really about. She'd gotten so comfortable in this banter and she'd watched her husband observe and do nothing, so she probably assumed he didn't even care any more. Him flirting just might wake her up to how it felt, and bring her back around to worrying about how her husband feels. 

That said, they've already discussed it, a decision's been made, so there's no reason to drag this out further unless it continues.


----------



## EI

vellocet said:


> Give it up, R is on her side.





Rookie4 said:


> I must be doing something right, because Vellocet follows me around to make his snide little passive aggressive comments. Most posters know that this post of yours is simply no true. I have never expressed support for the wife, at all. but , of course, the truth won't stop you, will it?


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> I must be doing something right, because Vellocet follows me around to make his snide little passive aggressive comments. Most posters know that this post of yours is simply no true. I have never expressed support for the wife, at all. but , of course, the truth won't stop you, will it?


Said the guy who threatens to report people for going off topic.....while going off topic. Petty

Oh, and don't flatter yourself. You side WAY to much with WSs while claiming only to be a BS, and you do so in a venomous way. We aren't being told your entire story, I'm sure.

But I digress since this isn't about you. Just commenting on your bad advice to OP as if it is his responsibility to do the heavy lifting in this relationship with someone who is obviously crossing the line.


----------



## kennethk

She's guilty of disrespecting her husband when he first mentions that it bothers him.... IF it was nothing.


----------



## vellocet

NTRM, you do what you think you have to do. Don't let anyone here try to tell you that your need to investigate or anything you do, aside from the obviously bad idea of becoming violent, are "Neanderthal" or "Gestapo". 

She crossed the line, and arrogantly out in the open I might add. Most people have given you good advice. You definitely need to communicate, and you have already done so. But don't let anyone make you think that the heavy lifting in this area is on you. It isn't.

For the life of me I don't understand a few of the responses you are getting as if you are somehow the problem or somehow you are being unreasonable or want to be.


----------



## vellocet

EI said:


>


 Back at ya


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> Oh, yes. The situation will be helped by the OP lying to his wife about his undercover activities. Good Idea.


He said not to mention his "undercover activities" to her. Not lie to her if asked about it.

Are you suggesting he go undercover by blowing his cover?:scratchhead: Or are you not in favor of him getting the information he needs?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> I never complained about getting bashed, but then again, I'm man enough to take it.


 Thanks for making my point easier to understand. I didn't say or imply you were complaining, but somehow you drew that inference from my post. Just like he felt you were lashing out and bashing him. You disagreed with his accusation and I said I could see why he drew that conclusion. I based this on your sarcastic response.

We all read things differently, that's it, nothing more nothing less.


----------



## sidney2718

Rookie4 said:


> If she is a cheater, she has a funny way of keeping it a secret, doesn't she? I agree with most of your post, Gus, but this is the part I have trouble with. Even if her husband was weak, ( which I AM NOT saying) there is the OM's GF who was also present during most of these encounters, and the likelihood of BOTH the OP and the GF letting this go, without even a comment, is pretty slim, if something major was truly happening.
> I do believe that the OM wants to get his mitts on the OP's wife's upperworks, but I'm not convinced that the OP's wife is taking the OM's actions as seriously as she needs to. Perhaps the OP setting her new boundaries will act as a "wake up call", and no further action will be necessary. But , if I were the OP, I would still have a private" meeting" with the OM, anyway. And accidents do happen.


I'd like to emphasize one thing here. The OM comes with a wife (or is it a friend?) One way for the OP to communicate is to ask his wife what the OM's wife thinks about those kisses and teases. Has she said nothing? I find that difficult to believe. When these events happened, how did the other folks around react?

I have one caution too. A fair fraction, perhaps most, cheaters are not caught at all. Some even go so far as to introduce the OM and his wife to their husband so that they become modest social friends. It is great cover.


----------



## sidney2718

Rookie4 said:


> The"fog" is a bogus concept. Like saying that "the devil made me do it" it is nothing more than an excuse.


It turns up in many ways though. In some situations it is called "new relationship energy". It is as if one has discovered a new dimension to life and old relationships and obligations seem to decrease in importance.


----------



## sidney2718

turnera said:


> I completely agree. And don't think your wife wasn't a little disappointed, too.


If I were the husband and I noticed that the wife seemed a bit disappointed, I'd just point out that I'd kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to draw attention to the fact that she was being sl*tty.


----------



## turnera

sidney2718 said:


> If I were the husband and I noticed that the wife seemed a bit disappointed, I'd just point out that I'd kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to draw attention to the fact that she was being sl*tty.


Ha! You think a woman is going to let you SEE her being disappointed? Think again.


----------



## sidney2718

Rookie4 said:


> So, what is she guilty of?


She could have shut him down with a comment or an action such as pushing his hands off her cheeks when he was kissing her. If he resisted, she could have slapped him.

I do social kissing as do a lot of folks here. I NEVER restrain the woman in any way while I'm doing it. The hands on the cheeks conveyed a lot of information to both the OP's wife and to the OM.


----------



## sidney2718

turnera said:


> Ha! You think a woman is going to let you SEE her being disappointed? Think again.


Ah Turnera, you forget that I am ancient and wise in the ways of women. I not only am fairly good at woman-speak, I've learned a good bit of body language too.


----------



## Sports Fan

I bet he discovers something in the phone bills.

I hope i'm wrong


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> Said the guy who threatens to report people for going off topic.....while going off topic. Petty
> 
> Oh, and don't flatter yourself. You side WAY to much with WSs while claiming only to be a BS, and you do so in a venomous way. We aren't being told your entire story, I'm sure.
> 
> But I digress since this isn't about you. Just commenting on your bad advice to OP as if it is his responsibility to do the heavy lifting in this relationship with someone who is obviously crossing the line.


More passive aggressive nonsense? You accuse me of something with no proof whatsoever. So, who is spewing the venom? You attacked me, not the other way round. BTW, I don't flatter myself at all, I know where I stand, and it is confronting the haters and the lynch mob........ I have always done so, and I always will. 
If you ever really want to learn, Vellocet, I will be glad to teach you.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> He said not to mention his "undercover activities" to her. Not lie to her if asked about it.
> 
> Are you suggesting he go undercover by blowing his cover?:scratchhead: Or are you not in favor of him getting the information he needs?


Do you understand sarcasm?


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Thanks for making my point easier to understand. I didn't say or imply you were complaining, but somehow you drew that inference from my post. Just like he felt you were lashing out and bashing him. You disagreed with his accusation and I said I could see why he drew that conclusion. I based this on your sarcastic response.
> 
> We all read things differently, that's it, nothing more nothing less.


Oh, I fully agree, Phil. I CAN be sarcastic and am perfectly willing to admit it.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> If she is a cheater, she has a funny way of keeping it a secret, doesn't she? I agree with most of your post, Gus, but this is the part I have trouble with. Even if her husband was weak, ( which I AM NOT saying) there is the OM's GF who was also present during most of these encounters, and the likelihood of BOTH the OP and the GF letting this go, without even a comment, is pretty slim, if something major was truly happening.


Fair enough, but stranger things have happened... right?



Rookie4 said:


> I do believe that the OM wants to get his mitts on the OP's wife's upperworks, but I'm not convinced that the OP's wife is taking the OM's actions as seriously as she needs to. Perhaps the OP setting her new boundaries will act as a "wake up call", and no further action will be necessary. *But , if I were the OP, I would still have a private" meeting" with the OM, anyway. And accidents do happen.*


Ha! No doubt.


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> Fair enough, but stranger things have happened... right?
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! No doubt.


It's all hindsight, Gus, but the critical time that the OP needed to get a handle on this problem, was the first time the OM said anything about the OP's wife's breasts. That was the time when the OP should have jerked him up close.
Now, the OP is playing some sort of emotional catchup, and needs to keep his wits about him. At this late date, spying, accusing, and dramatic confrontations won't help him solve his problems. He needs to work on his marriage in a spirit of cooperation and understanding. Getting his wife to admit to inappropriate conduct might be difficult, but not impossible, especially if she isn't interested in anything more with the OM, than casual flirtation.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Rookie4 said:


> Lash out? Bashing? Dude , you need to calm down. I disagree with you, but I'm certainly not bashing you.


Your posts indicate you are looking for trouble. Best is not to react to that, so we keep the peace.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Let's wait for OP.


----------



## tulsy

See_Listen_Love said:


> Let's wait for OP.


He hasn't been back since he checked the phone records....curious what he found. Hope it's all good.


----------



## Chaparral

tulsy said:


> He hasn't been back since he checked the phone records....curious what he found. Hope it's all good.


Yes, and that's ominous..........considering the odds.


----------



## Not the real me

Hi folks, Checked the phone records. All clear, although I aren't stupid enough to know that people can use a pay and go phone if they wanted to hide something.
There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.
After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again. I'm still in the time will tell frame of mind. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for all your fabulous support though.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Not the real me said:


> Hi folks, Checked the phone records. All clear, although I aren't stupid enough to know that people can use a pay and go phone if they wanted to hide something.
> There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.
> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again. I'm still in the time will tell frame of mind. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for all your fabulous support though.


Glad to hear this and hope for the best. Whatever you do, don't let it eat you up inside. Also, don't get obsessive with checking, it can consume you.


----------



## convert

It would be interesting to see the actual texts to her sister

but i guess it is just the BS in me being paranoid

oh yes it can consume you


----------



## kennethk

Well, its a step in the right direction. Glad to hear it.
Unfortunately, you will be suspicious for a long time and therefore will need to keep monitoring her computer, phone and whereabouts.

ps - if she has an iphone, and you know here Apple ID & password, you can use teensafe.com to actually read her texts, even the deleted ones.

There is a free trial.


----------



## naiveonedave

Good luck NTRM. I hope this ends well.


----------



## turnera

Not the real me said:


> Hi folks, Checked the phone records. All clear, although I aren't stupid enough to know that people can use a pay and go phone if they wanted to hide something.
> There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.
> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again. I'm still in the time will tell frame of mind. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for all your fabulous support though.


Sounds good. Great job! Just remember that the next time you see something you don't like...say so! Don't just sit back and wait. Right?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Not the real me said:


> Hi folks, Checked the phone records. All clear, although I aren't stupid enough to know that people can use a pay and go phone if they wanted to hide something.
> There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.
> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again. I'm still in the time will tell frame of mind. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for all your fabulous support though.


So, so glad!! :smthumbup:

Transparency and boundaries will serve you guys well...


----------



## Rookie4

Not the real me said:


> Hi folks, Checked the phone records. All clear, although I aren't stupid enough to know that people can use a pay and go phone if they wanted to hide something.
> There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.
> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again. I'm still in the time will tell frame of mind. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for all your fabulous support though.


Dude, you have done a great job! You have set appropriate boundaries, have gotten on the same page as your wife and did a LOT to increase her respect for you.
Now, the next time the OM flirts with your wife or comments on her anatomy, (and he will because he's stupid) THAT'S when you and him can have that little heart-to-heart, one-on-one meeting, I was talking about. But please be careful of stumbling on rugs, wet floors, carpeting, furniture, doors, etc, or anything that might cause an unfortunate accident to him. Good Luck. Be smart and be happy.


----------



## Not the real me

Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, contact is a total no no. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Best way, IMO, to handle this problem going forward. End the contact, have a "heart to heart" with dude when he contacts you and let the chips fall were they may. Make sure, if he reaches out, you are clear as to why. IMO, blame him as you have already discussed it with your wife. Don't even bring her up. By this I mean, when you get in his A$$ abut the situation don't bring up they were mutually at fault. He is to blame for the entire scenario even though she intiitated the contact. I'd even leave out the following her to the bathroom part, but the two separate kisses and sexual innuendos are fair game.


----------



## Rookie4

Not the real me said:


> Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, contact is a total no no. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


Good thinking. But, of course, people will talk. So be prepared for him to diss you behind your back, to other friends. Sometimes a "come to Jesus" meeting is the only way to get through to morons.


----------



## TRy

Not the real me said:


> Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, contact is a total no no. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


 I agree with this course of action by you, but would take out the threat of telling his wife. Remember that even though this guy was disrespecting you by hitting on your wife all the time, it was your wife that kissed him, thus from his wife's point of view your wife is the worst of the two in acting inappropriately. When you do tell him, just say that your wife and him grew increasingly inappropriate and disrespectful to both of your marriages and that you have put a stop to it by cutting off all contact. Tell him that you do not care who started it him or your wife, because a true friend would have not acted this way towards a friend's wife.


----------



## Cubby

Great news that nothing was found on the phone records. Once again, another example of why it's so important to examine those records. Trust but verify.


----------



## thummper

Just read this thread again. The poster has no one to blame but himself for this situation. The INSTANT that kiss and the inappropriate chatting occurred, he should have been all over it. "Hey! What in the hell do you think you're doing!!!!!" His wife should have been reprimanded right there in front of everyone, this other guy's wife included. God, how can people be so dense?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

thummper said:


> Just read this thread again. The poster has no one to blame but himself for this situation. The INSTANT that kiss and the inappropriate chatting occurred, he should have been all over it. "Hey! What in the hell do you think you're doing!!!!!" His wife should have been reprimanded right there in front of everyone, this other guy's wife included. God, how can people be so dense?


Oh, I thought we were back on page one for a second. Carry on.


----------



## Graywolf2

Not the real me said:


> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again.


:smthumbup:



Graywolf2 said:


> OP, no matter what you did the right thing by confronting your wife. It showed her that you care.


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> More passive aggressive nonsense? You accuse me of something with no proof whatsoever. So, who is spewing the venom? You attacked me, not the other way round. BTW, I don't flatter myself at all, I know where I stand, and it is confronting the haters and the lynch mob........ I have always done so, and I always will.
> If you ever really want to learn, Vellocet, I will be glad to teach you.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


>


You keep trying, Dude. One of these days you will get me with one of your really profound zingers This effort, however , is pretty lame. But I do laugh about it. Have a nice day,


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> You keep trying, Dude. One of these days you will get me with one of your really profound zingers This effort, however , is pretty lame. But I do laugh about it. Have a nice day,


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


>


Actually, this is better than the fat kid with the perm.:smthumbup:I'm out of here, so Vellocet can do his worst.


----------



## vellocet

Not the real me said:


> There's loads of texts to her sister just after I brought up that I was annoyed it had happened. So I assume that she was turning to her either for advice or to plead her innocence.


Well you read the texts, what did they say? Was she badmouthing you to her sister or something?




> After a week of a focussed 180 she told me yesterday from nowhere that she loved me more than anything in the world and would never do anything to hurt me. Reiterating that it was just a drunken mistake and promising that it won't happen ever again.


Ok, I hope she holds to that. Perhaps partying and being drunk shouldn't happen anymore? Even though being drunk isn't an excuse. She obviously can't handle those situations.

But if she says it won't happen again, then hopefully you are headed in the right direction. But don't let your guard down. Its going to take more than one little talk to gain back a certain level of trust.


----------



## Gabriel

Please let us know how things turn out when you eventually have to explain to your ol' buddy why they are gone from your social circle. Very interested to hear how that plays out.

I do like the idea of implying, but not explicitly threatening to tell his wife. Make him read between the lines.


----------



## convert

vellocet said:


> Well you read the texts, what did they say? Was she badmouthing you to her sister or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I hope she holds to that. Perhaps partying and being drunk shouldn't happen anymore? Even though being drunk isn't an excuse. She obviously can't handle those situations.
> 
> But if she says it won't happen again, then hopefully you are headed in the right direction. But don't let your guard down. Its going to take more than one little talk to gain back a certain level of trust.


vellocet, I don't think he read the text he just saw maybe from the phone bill that she texted her sister a lot after confrontation.

That is why I said it would be interesting to read the text. and if he checks her phone and they are deleted..... well


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Gabriel said:


> Please let us know how things turn out when you eventually have to explain to your ol' buddy why they are gone from your social circle. Very interested to hear how that plays out.
> 
> I do like the idea of implying, but not explicitly threatening to tell his wife. Make him read between the lines.


Yep, leverage can be your friend


----------



## Nucking Futs

I don't think there's any infidelity here, just a case of loose boundaries that have now been tightened.

ETA: I don't think there's any infidelity by his wife. The friend is another matter.


----------



## vellocet

convert said:


> vellocet, I don't think he read the text he just saw maybe from the phone bill that she texted her sister a lot after confrontation.
> 
> That is why I said it would be interesting to read the text. and if he checks her phone and they are deleted..... well


Yes, you are probably correct.

And yes, if he checks and the messages to her sister are deleted, its a safe assumption they wouldn't be flattering for him.

So perhaps check the phone, see if all those texts are still there. If not, I wouldn't put much stock in her out of the blue revelation that she wants things to work.


----------



## Entropy3000

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't think there's any infidelity here, just a case of loose boundaries that have now been tightened.
> 
> ETA: I don't think there's any infidelity by his wife. The friend is another matter.


Define infidelity. LOL. I think she is well past inappropriate and into unfaithful behavior at the least.
A faithful wife would not do what she did and would have shut the guy down.

No idea how far it goes. He has to investigate further. There is a ton of gray is my point here. I do not see fidelity as black and white.


----------



## 2asdf2

thummper said:


> Just read this thread again. The poster has no one to blame but himself for this situation. The INSTANT that kiss and the inappropriate chatting occurred, he should have been all over it. "Hey! What in the hell do you think you're doing!!!!!" His wife should have been *reprimanded* right there in front of everyone, this other guy's wife included. God, how can people be so dense?


Reprimanded?

Thank you for your most helpful post.

Apologies if the "dense" comment is not an insult to the OP.


----------



## Rookie4

I might have to come back to this thread, the mob looks like it is in the saddle again. Listen. The OP has already said what he is going to do, and that he is going to confront the Om if necessary. What more is there to discuss?


----------



## Rookie4

thummper said:


> Just read this thread again. The poster has no one to blame but himself for this situation. The INSTANT that kiss and the inappropriate chatting occurred, he should have been all over it. "Hey! What in the hell do you think you're doing!!!!!" His wife should have been reprimanded right there in front of everyone, this other guy's wife included. God, how can people be so dense?


Reprimand her in public? Like a kid, who misbehaves? What a great idea! She will surely love her husband more for that.


----------



## Melvynman

My advise is get over the kiss!


----------



## vellocet

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't think there's any infidelity here, just a case of loose boundaries that have now been tightened.
> 
> ETA: I don't think there's any infidelity by his wife. The friend is another matter.


I agree, however, her behavior is one of someone that would easily cheat if the cat was away and she'd think nobody would find out.


----------



## Gabriel

Rookie4 said:


> Reprimand her in public? Like a kid, who misbehaves? What a great idea! She will surely love her husband more for that.


Rookie - I've stayed quiet, but you are really becoming combative on this thread. 

Thummper's post may not be in line with how you think things should be handled - but it wasn't out of line. You need to lay off. You've made your same point a thousand times, and the OP has his plan already.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> I agree, however, her behavior is one of someone that would easily cheat if the cat was away and she'd think nobody would find out.


So you know more about the OP's wife than he does? He has made his decision, where is your support for him?


----------



## Gabriel

Rookie4 said:


> I might have to come back to this thread, the mob looks like it is in the saddle again. Listen. The OP has already said what he is going to do, and that he is going to confront the Om if necessary. What more is there to discuss?


Nothing, yet you keep ridiculing some opinions nonetheless. I think this thread has run its course.


----------



## Rookie4

Gabriel said:


> Rookie - I've stayed quiet, but you are really becoming combative on this thread.
> 
> Thummper's post may not be in line with how you think things should be handled - but it wasn't out of line. You need to lay off. You've made your same point a thousand times, and the OP has his plan already.


Gabe, It wasn't? So you think that public ridicule is OK? Apparently the OP thinks different. Because he has already done what he intends to do.


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> So you know more about the OP's wife than he does? He has made his decision, where is your support for him?


And I fully support his decision. He just need not let his guard down.

And yes, I've been around women who act as he has described his wife. I know the character. Not saying his wife will become like all the other wives that acted like her, but he needs to not put on any blinders.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

appropriately vigilant


----------



## Rookie4

Rookie4 said:


> I might have to come back to this thread, the mob looks like it is in the saddle again. Listen. The OP has already said what he is going to do, and that he is going to confront the Om if necessary. What more is there to discuss?


This was my post. I stated that the OP had made his plan, didn't I? Why are people still bashing the OPs wife?


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> This was my post. I stated that the OP had made his plan, didn't I? Why are people still bashing the OPs wife?


Some are, others are telling him to proceed with caution, as I have done in post #329.

We know you like to defend those that cross the line, but give it a rest already.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> And I fully support his decision. He just need not let his guard down.
> 
> And yes, I've been around women who act as he has described his wife. I know the character. Not saying his wife will become like all the other wives that acted like her, but he needs to not put on any blinders.


I agree with your caution, just not your accusation. as far as we know, his wife has done nothing else wrong, and should be supported, not accused.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> I agree, however, her behavior is one of someone that would easily cheat if the cat was away and she'd think nobody would find out.


This is your post, it is not a caution, it is an accusation.


----------



## Entropy3000

2asdf2 said:


> Reprimanded?
> 
> Thank you for your most helpful post.
> 
> Apologies if the "dense" comment is not an insult to the OP.


Just noticed your avatar and thought it was quite appropriate for this thread.


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> This is your post, it is not a caution, it is an accusation.


Yup and that's my opinion. However its not a guarantee she will turn out like all the other people that exhibited her type of behavior.

So he will have to wait and see. Hopefully it works out and she is sincere. But its going to take more than talk from her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> This is your post, it is not a caution, it is an accusation.


Good lord, didn't you just say there is nothing to discuss? You are not a mod so, monitoring the thread is not your job. If you don't like what is said report the posts, but you are now in the same boat as all of the people allegedly discussing nothing.


----------



## Entropy3000




----------



## Nucking Futs

Entropy3000 said:


> Define infidelity. LOL. I think she is well past inappropriate and into unfaithful behavior at the least.
> A faithful wife would not do what she did and would have shut the guy down.
> 
> No idea how far it goes. He has to investigate further. There is a ton of gray is my point here. I do not see fidelity as black and white.


Point taken. I don't think there is a sexual or emotional affair or any thought of either. I think her borders were slipping and she would have been in an affair of some kind soon enough, but not yet. By the dictionary definition though I have to agree that there was infidelity.


----------



## Entropy3000

Nucking Futs said:


> Point taken. I don't think there is a sexual or emotional affair or any thought of either. I think her borders were slipping and she would have been in an affair of some kind soon enough, but not yet. By the dictionary definition though I have to agree that there was infidelity.


And sorry for splitting hairs. I can go where you are in a "feeling". I think the unknown is the thing.

But imagine sitting there as an onlooker. Maybe a friend to the OP. Then you saw her do that. I have seen some outrageous things from spouses. Usually when their SO is not there. In this case if I saw that I would be saying holy crap!!! First the kiss, then the no reaction from hubby and then them both leaving for the restroom. Wow. My thoughts would be that the husband might be into this.


----------



## GusPolinski

Rookie4 said:


> *Reprimand her in public?* Like a kid, who misbehaves? What a great idea! She will surely love her husband more for that.


Sorry, but yes. Such brazen and disrespectful behavior calls for, deserves, *and* warrants *AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE*. I would't say that it's time to call in the nukes, but at least scramble the damn fighters.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Entropy3000 said:


> And sorry for splitting hairs. I can go where you are in a "feeling". I think the unknown is the thing.
> 
> But imagine sitting there as an onlooker. Maybe a friend to the OP. Then you saw her do that. I have seen some outrageous things from spouses. Usually when their SO is not there. In this case if I saw that I would be saying holy crap!!! First the kiss, then the no reaction from hubby and then them both leaving for the restroom. Wow. My thoughts would be that the husband might be into this.


Yep, as an outside observer in that situation I'd be wondering if they had an open marriage. When I say I don't think there was an affair or nefarious intentions I mean by his wife. I just don't think she had any idea where it was heading and I suspect she's mainly feeling bewilderment about his response and possibly a little shame that she may have innocently damaged the marriage. Note that I'm not referring to her as a WW, I just don't think she's wayward. Unlike the POSOM.

I could be wrong about this, I've heard rumors that that happens to people and it's bound to happen to me eventually too.


----------



## Entropy3000

GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but yes. Such brazen and disrespectful behavior calls for, deserves, *and* warrants *AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE*. I would't say that it's time to call in the nukes, but at least scramble the damn fighters.


As I said earlier if that had happened, I would have left with her. Told her we needed to go. But I would have engaged immediately to some degree. How cool about it ... idunno. Inflammatory words aside but I would have not just sat there. Indeed I would have not just sat there with the OM leaving with her.

This is another story in recent threads where you put a husband, a wife and another man in an awkward scenario. Remember the one with the boxer shorts in the kitchen? LOL. Similar deal here. The game is all about being put in an awkward social situation while a boundary is crossed. If you do not treat it as a boundary right then and there the boundary does not really exist.


----------



## sidney2718

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Glad to hear this and hope for the best. Whatever you do, don't let it eat you up inside. Also, don't get obsessive with checking, it can consume you.


I agree.


----------



## sidney2718

thummper said:


> Just read this thread again. The poster has no one to blame but himself for this situation. The INSTANT that kiss and the inappropriate chatting occurred, he should have been all over it. "Hey! What in the hell do you think you're doing!!!!!" His wife should have been reprimanded right there in front of everyone, this other guy's wife included. God, how can people be so dense?


You are right but also wrong. A husband (like a wife) is allowed to be stupid from time to time without having to accept the blame for what another adult would consider inappropriate behavior.


----------



## sidney2718

vellocet said:


> Yup and that's my opinion. However its not a guarantee she will turn out like all the other people that exhibited her type of behavior.
> 
> So he will have to wait and see. Hopefully it works out and she is sincere. But its going to take more than talk from her.


Would her getting down on the ground and licking her husband's shoes qualify as something more than talk?


----------



## Rookie4

GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but yes. Such brazen and disrespectful behavior calls for, deserves, *and* warrants *AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE*. I would't say that it's time to call in the nukes, but at least scramble the damn fighters.


I think that a public reprimand is much more the Nuke than it is the fighter. Humiliating your wife in public is just about the single most foolish act a man can do. If the OP had done this, she would almost certainly have retaliated in some fashion. Women do NOT like to be embarrassed. 
Entropy's solution would be a better option.....take your wife and leave. Then , in private, ream her a$$ out, and at some later date, jerk the OM up close, when there is nobody around to cause trouble. You have to be smarter than to attempt some kind of dramatic, public, confrontation. It will almost always results in scandal, ridicule , and talk. Unless you enjoy being the but of everybodys jokes.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> I think that a public reprimand is much more the Nuke than it is the fighter. .


No more humiliating than your wife saying "I love you too" and kissing a dude full on the lips. It also depends on what level of reprimand, a "WTH are you two doing, Did you see this" to the offenders spouse, then leaving is public enough and not nuke level to me. The other spouse is informed, your spouse realizes this isn't a joke, the people in place know you will defend your marriage and you have set a new boundary. Also he said immediate reaction not reprimand. 



> It will almost always results in scandal, ridicule , and talk. Unless you enjoy being the but of everybodys jokes.


 My counter is, what about the gossiping that occurred when the kiss was met with little to no reaction? Right, it happens both ways in both scenarios. In other words, who cares what others think? Both scenarios have minuses, but one sets a group boundary.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No more humiliating than your wife saying "I love you too" and kissing a dude full on the lips. It also depends on what level of reprimand, a "WTH are you two doing, Did you see this" to the offenders spouse, then leaving is public enough and not nuke level to me. The other spouse is informed, your spouse realizes this isn't a joke, the people in place know you will defend your marriage and you have set a new boundary. Also he said immediate reaction not reprimand.
> 
> 
> My counter is, what about the gossiping that occurred when the kiss was met with little to no reaction? Right, it happens both ways in both scenarios. In other words, who cares what others think? Both scenarios have minuses, but one sets a group boundary.


Sorry, Phil, but Thummper clearly said reprimand. If he had said immediate action, I would have agreed and went and got myself another coffee. I also don't think that this would have sent the right message to his wife. Like most women, embarrassment is the greatest sin. What the OP did, by talking to her in private seems to have worked much better. Now, in my neck of the woods, a little private dental alteration for the OM, would have almost certainly followed the OP and his wife leaving. But then again, I'm pretty old fashioned.


----------



## Entropy3000

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No more humiliating than your wife saying "I love you too" and kissing a dude full on the lips. It also depends on what level of reprimand, a "WTH are you two doing, Did you see this" to the offenders spouse, then leaving is public enough and not nuke level to me. The other spouse is informed, your spouse realizes this isn't a joke, the people in place know you will defend your marriage and you have set a new boundary. Also he said immediate reaction not reprimand.
> 
> 
> My counter is, what about the gossiping that occurred when the kiss was met with little to no reaction? Right, it happens both ways in both scenarios. In other words, who cares what others think? Both scenarios have minuses, but one sets a group boundary.


The gossip is much better for the couple that the husband intervened than the hubby is into this.
The latter invites other predators.


----------



## Entropy3000

sidney2718 said:


> Would her getting down on the ground and licking her husband's shoes qualify as something more than talk?


That would be sick but at least not unfaithful.

Few men want a woman who kisses other men like this or a woman who would grovel and lick shoes.

What universe is this extreme behavior even valid?

Both have humiliation involved. Sorry but I just do not understand this fascination with some folks and humiliation.

Countering one extreme with another makes for fun and games on the threads I guess.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Rookie4 said:


> Sorry, Phil, but Thummper clearly said reprimand.


The person you quoted and borrowed SPECIFIC phrases from did not. By quoting Gus, that's the post I used for context in my response. Most men don't like embarrassment either, which is evidenced by your comment on backwoods dental work.



> What the OP did, by talking to her in private seems to have worked much better.


Sure, If I ignore it is the third private talk. I won't. So, to be specific, we will never know because he was passive the first two times.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The person you quoted and borrowed SPECIFIC phrases from did not. By quoting Gus, that's the post I used for context in my response. Most men don't like embarrassment either, which is evidenced by your comment on backwoods dental work.
> 
> Sure, If I ignore it is the third private talk. I won't. So, to be specific, we will never know because he was passive the first two times.


Apparently we got cross wired, Phil. I was talking about Thummper, not Gus. Gus seems a pretty good sort. Well, the thing is, in my day, men handled these sort of things privately. One or the other would emerge the winner. Nowadays, you can't even look at somebody sideways. Depressing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

We played "the dozens" in my day, now it is called bullying.


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> We played "the dozens" in my day, now it is called bullying.


I hear you. When I got back from overseas, I got into a barfight in Baltimore. There were three guys bothering this woman, so I told them to stop and they ganged on me. I could only fight one at a time, so I hit one with a beer bottle , and it cost me $6000.00!!!!! Can you believe that? One guy beats up three and the ONE guy is the bully? Our value system is screwed.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Not the real me said:


> Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, contact is a total no no. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


:allhail:


----------



## thatbpguy

Not the real me said:


> Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, contact is a total no no. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


Very good!

Why not tell her anyway? I mean, hasn't she a right to know who her husband is kissing and saying 'I love you' to?


----------



## TRy

sidney2718 said:


> Would her getting down on the ground and licking her husband's shoes qualify as something more than talk?


 I do not think that the OP would even want his wife on her knees licking his shoes. Given a choice, I think that OP would be able to think of something better for his wife to lick while she is down there. Now that would be more than talk LOL!


----------



## 6301

Rookie4 said:


> I think that a public reprimand is much more the Nuke than it is the fighter. Humiliating your wife in public is just about the single most foolish act a man can do. If the OP had done this, she would almost certainly have retaliated in some fashion. Women do NOT like to be embarrassed.


 I agree with you to a point but when she does something so blatant as kissing another man in front of her husband with all their friends witnessing it, then one gets what one deserves and I promise you that if he kissed another woman in front of his wife, she would have ripped him a new one right then and there and not just verbally.


----------



## thummper

Rookie4 said:


> I think that a public reprimand is much more the Nuke than it is the fighter. *Humiliating your wife in public is just about the single most foolish act a man can do*. If the OP had done this, she would almost certainly have retaliated in some fashion. Women do NOT like to be embarrassed.
> Entropy's solution would be a better option.....take your wife and leave. Then , in private, ream her a$$ out, and at some later date, jerk the OM up close, when there is nobody around to cause trouble. You have to be smarter than to attempt some kind of dramatic, public, confrontation. *It will almost always results in scandal, ridicule , and talk. *Unless you enjoy being the but of everybodys jokes.


How 'bout humiliating your husband in public? You don't think people were talking about what she did? That behavior needed to be addressed immediately.


----------



## GusPolinski

thummper said:


> How 'bout humiliating your husband in public? You don't think people were talking about what she did? That behavior needed to be addressed immediately.


Indeed.


----------



## GusPolinski

Look, I'm not saying that OP should've started berating his wife and/or OM on the spot, or that he should've jumped up and knocked the sh*t out of OM. Pulling either or both of them aside in order to calmly (IKR) -- and yet w/ an appropriate amount of harshness -- explain and enforce boundaries would've been fine. Either way, the behavior should've been addressed *immediately*.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

It seems to me that the OP was just too beta to do anything of consequence when he witnessed his wife kissing another man.

He can tell use that this is the way his wife has been since he met her, always touchy feely, gives everyone hugs and kisses.

But with his lack of taking strong enough action towards/against it and her willingness to kiss other men on the lips, IN FRONT OF HIM... Well, it won't be long before it gets past kissing...

I think that there's a good chance that it already has gone passed kissing. The OP said that she had snuck away a few times while with him. How about when she wasn't with him...

You can just image how this is going to end. He's going to walk in on her, with her legs up like goal posts. Another man scoring a goal and then her crying, It just started as a kiss! I don't know what happened...


----------



## Q tip

Let me repeat .... 

Damn damn damn

Where has all the testosterone gone

Dude, read MMSLP an grow a pair. Such a simple fix to a sophomoric problem. 

Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay

Will explain you and the situation. A great read for all men married or single.

*Not to belittle the issue. The issue is belittling you.* Everything you know about women and nice'ing them into your heart is bloody wrong. Read the book or stay a committed beta. You need a strong balance of Aplha and Beta in your life. Your wife needs it more than you. Not what your grade school teacher wants...

Good luck


----------



## 6301

If it was me in that situation, First I would deal with her by pulling her to the side out of ear shot of everyone and let her know in so many words that if she ever does something like that again, my shoe will be introducing itself to her ass and it will not ever happen again.

Then I get his attention and tell him the same thing and in both cases, if either one tries to explain, I would let them know that I don't want to here it and the conversation is closed.


----------



## thummper

Perhaps he should have indeed pulled her to the side and said, "You can either leave *right now *with me, or stay and smooch with your new interest. The choice is yours." By ignoring the immediate situation, he was just asking for further developments.....and he got them. What a mess!


----------



## 6301

thummper said:


> Perhaps he should have indeed pulled her to the side and said, "You can either leave *right now *with me, or stay and smooch with your new interest. The choice is yours." By ignoring the immediate situation, he was just asking for further developments.....and he got them. What a mess!


 "Smooch"?


----------



## thummper

Just slang for "kissing." Am I showing my age again?? :scratchhead:


----------



## 6301

thummper said:


> Just slang for "kissing." Am I showing my age again?? :scratchhead:


 Nah. I'm 67 so I heard it before. I was just kidding I know what it means. Just don't start using words like "spooning" or "pitching woo".


----------



## PhillyGuy13

thummper said:


> Just slang for "kissing." Am I showing my age again?? :scratchhead:


At least you didn't say they were necking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

OP I am pleased to find you did some due diligence on her phone and texts, glad you didn't find anything.

Don't let it eat away at you. Consider it put to bed, however make sure that boundaries are established. Hard boundaries, that shouldn't be redrawn.

Good luck man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Working1

Q tip said:


> Let me repeat ....
> 
> Damn damn damn
> 
> Where has all the testosterone gone
> 
> Dude, read MMSLP an grow a pair. Such a simple fix to a sophomoric problem.
> 
> Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay
> 
> Will explain you and the situation. A great read for all men married or single.
> 
> *Not to belittle the issue. The issue is belittling you.* Everything you know about women and nice'ing them into your heart is bloody wrong. Read the book or stay a committed beta. You need a strong balance of Aplha and Beta in your life. Your wife needs it more than you. Not what your grade school teacher wants...
> 
> Good luck


Personally I don't have a problem with flirting, especially if it is done in front of me with women I am comfortable with and with women I know my husband would never be able to fall in love with. If I felt like I was on the outside looking in, then I would be very insecure about it.
However, I want a strong masculine man who is going to make sure that he gets fulfilled ultimately by me, and visa versa. Flirting can be fun for both of us, but that is all it is. sure it's exciting, but if nobody is hiding anything than I don't see the harm. As in a kiss is just a kiss.


----------



## always_hopefull

Working1 said:


> Personally I don't have a problem with flirting, especially if it is done in front of me with women I am comfortable with and with women I know my husband would never be able to fall in love with. If I felt like I was on the outside looking in, then I would be very insecure about it.
> However, I want a strong masculine man who is going to make sure that he gets fulfilled ultimately by me, and visa versa. Flirting can be fun for both of us, but that is all it is. sure it's exciting, but if nobody is hiding anything than I don't see the harm. As in a kiss is just a kiss.


You do realize that your posting on an infidelity forum, stating it's okay for spouses to flirt and kiss others? Also incase you missed it, the OP has already stated he was not "comfortable" with this behaviour. So I'm sorry to say a kiss is not just a kiss for most of the people here, especially the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Working1 said:


> Personally I don't have a problem with flirting, especially if it is done in front of me with women I am comfortable with and with women I know my husband would never be able to fall in love with. If I felt like I was on the outside looking in, then I would be very insecure about it.
> However, I want a strong masculine man who is going to make sure that he gets fulfilled ultimately by me, and visa versa. Flirting can be fun for both of us, but that is all it is. sure it's exciting, but if nobody is hiding anything than I don't see the harm. *As in a kiss is just a kiss.*


How about a kiss with an "I love you, too..." thrown in for good measure?


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> Look, I'm not saying that OP should've started berating his wife and/or OM on the spot, or that he should've jumped up and knocked the sh*t out of OM. Pulling either or both of them aside in order to calmly (IKR) -- and yet w/ an appropriate amount of harshness -- explain and enforce boundaries would've been fine. Either way, the behavior should've been addressed *immediately*.


We are all different. I'd have gone with a snarky comment meant to be heard by everybody. That way there'd be no doubt about where I stood.

But we all agree, the time to say something was when it happened.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> How about a kiss with an "I love you, too..." thrown in for good measure?


Well, it all depends, doesn't it. It depends on the situation, the tone, and how it was done. A "smooch" is one thing. A deep kiss is something else. Holding a woman's face so that you can kiss it and her not objecting is REALLY out of line.

But I think we are beating a dead mule here. The story is basically over. I suspect that the OP has laid it all out, and if he continues with what he said he'd do, that will be that.

I will offer some advice for moving forward. Do what you said, and then put it to rest. Don't bring it up again, don't obliquely refer to it. It is done and the incidents are closed.

Why do I say this? Because it seems that there was nothing further. I'd not want to make these events into a big thing. Dropping the OM from your friends list will tell everyone that lines have been drawn. The OP's wife does not have to wear a scarlet A on her clothing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> As in a kiss is just a kiss.





sidney2718 said:


> Well, it all depends, doesn't it. It depends on the situation, the tone, and how it was done. A "smooch" is one thing. A deep kiss is something else.


If your spouse is offended the context, tone, situation or type does not matter. 

Flirting is not all in fun when one party is offended.


----------



## Entropy3000

Now folks are debating kisses as to whether they are deep enough for a husband to be concerned. Was there enough tongue play to be considered disrespectful. Were the I love you's sarcastic enough?

You are not talking even about flirting now. Kissing is not flirting. You are debating how far sex play can go. You are not talking about a goodbye hug or kiss on the cheek. 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: 

Actually a kiss is not just a kiss. If you think that, you really are not much of a kisser. Kissing is very intimate. So much so married couples who get into a routine may have intercourse but kissing seems all too intimate. See The Ten Second Kiss" for reference. Try it.

Perhaps the biggest thing is why are the wife and the OM so free to do this in front of the husband?


----------



## Working1

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If your spouse is offended the context, tone, situation or type does not matter.
> 
> Flirting is not all in fun when one party is offended.


completely agree, if the spouse is offended, absolutely unacceptable, and a real problem, particularly when done in front of the spouse. And if it happens again when the spouse has stated they are hurt and confused by it, then there are some serious issues going on.


----------



## Rookie4

6301 said:


> Nah. I'm 67 so I heard it before. I was just kidding I know what it means. Just don't start using words like "spooning" or "pitching woo".


"Pitching Woo?" Is that the Reliever the Mets got from Korea?


----------



## Rookie4

Entropy3000 said:


> Now folks are debating kisses as to whether they are deep enough for a husband to be concerned. Was there enough tongue play to be considered disrespectful. Were the I love you's sarcastic enough?
> 
> You are not talking even about flirting now. Kissing is not flirting. You are debating how far sex play can go. You are not talking about a goodbye hug or kiss on the cheek.
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Actually a kiss is not just a kiss. If you think that, you really are not much of a kisser. Kissing is very intimate. So much so married couples who get into a routine may have intercourse but kissing seems all too intimate. See The Ten Second Kiss" for reference. Try it.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest thing is why are the wife and the OM so free to do this in front of the husband?


I wouldn't read too much in any kiss. The OP didn't say that there was any tongue, did he? People kiss for all sorts of reasons, and WHERE they kiss is less relevant than the circumstances. My Grandma kissed EVERYBODY on the lips. It used to embarrass me a lot, while growing up. I really wish she were still around to do it again.


----------



## the guy

Hell,I've reacted to hugs...I mean a chick hugs my old lady, I can keep it together, but when a guy does this I will take offence and say "easy" or "that's enough".

Every one that knows me understands were I stand.....but a kiss....that guy would/has gotten more then words.

Lets just say I'm not as polished as some folks.


----------



## thummper

Not the real me said:


> Would love to witness said unfortunate accident. However, *contact is a total no no*. She knows that. We won't contact them for any social gatherings and next time they invite us I am going to tell him we wont be attending and I am going to tell him why, with the added promise of if he doesn't like what I have to say, I shall tell his wife the reason why they've been omitted from our social circles.


Why no contact? Wife afraid you'll find out what was really going on? Wife afraid you'll smack this guy? Maybe you should get his take on all of this. Maybe she was whispering sweet nothings in his ear and he was reacting. She wouldn't want you to know about that. What about them both just happening to head to the toilet at the same time? Too damn many questions have been left unanswered, and of course, according to her it's all in your mind, you're overreacting, you're filled with jealousy over something which meant nothing. Relax it's no big deal to tell some other guy I love him, too. BS!!! Do you think it's all in your head?
Actually, we'll probably never get his answers. He hasn't posted since Friday. His wife's either sandbagged him and put him off the trail, or he's taken off for the tall and uncut, never to be heard from again. I've noticed that happening on this site several times. Be nice to know how this all turns out. I hope for the best for him. Hope his wife gets the message that getting a little to close to someone from the opposite sex can lead to misunderstandings and hard feelings.


----------



## Cubby

Rookie4 said:


> I wouldn't read too much in any kiss. The OP didn't say that there was any tongue, did he? People kiss for all sorts of reasons, and WHERE they kiss is less relevant than the circumstances. My Grandma kissed EVERYBODY on the lips. It used to embarrass me a lot, while growing up. I really wish she were still around to do it again.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the friend enjoyed the kiss from the OP's wife a lot more than any kiss he got from his grandma. He probably never played the breadstick game with his grandma either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thummper

Cubby said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the friend enjoyed the kiss from the OP's wife a lot more than any kiss he got from his grandma. He probably never played the breadstick game with his grandma either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ooooooooo! Good one, Cubby! :smthumbup:


----------



## sidney2718

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If your spouse is offended the context, tone, situation or type does not matter.
> 
> Flirting is not all in fun when one party is offended.


True. But we humans are difficult. A major fraction of the population likes to flirt in some social situations. But one party can, as you say, be offended. My choice then would be to wait and say something when we were alone.


----------



## sidney2718

Entropy3000 said:


> Now folks are debating kisses as to whether they are deep enough for a husband to be concerned. Was there enough tongue play to be considered disrespectful. Were the I love you's sarcastic enough?


Social kissing shouldn't be deep AT ALL. A meeting of the closed lips is minor.



> You are not talking even about flirting now. Kissing is not flirting. You are debating how far sex play can go. You are not talking about a goodbye hug or kiss on the cheek.


I don't think we differ. I was, in fact, talking about all kinds of kissing. Some guys would object to having a guy kiss their wives on the cheek. Others would object to a closed lip kiss. Still others would not mind a kiss on the forehead. There are many different kinds of kisses.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: 



> Actually a kiss is not just a kiss. If you think that, you really are not much of a kisser. Kissing is very intimate. So much so married couples who get into a routine may have intercourse but kissing seems all too intimate. See The Ten Second Kiss" for reference. Try it.


I agree. Deep kissing involving what was called in my youth as "tongue action" is very intimate. It involves penetration, motion, flowing bodily fluids, and often causes a physical reaction in the participants. It really is unacceptable. But that's me.

I'm the sarcastic type. I'd probably say to them "Let us know when you get done because SHE is going home right now."



> Perhaps the biggest thing is why are the wife and the OM so free to do this in front of the husband?


That is the one thing that really bothers me as well. I have to assume that it wasn't a passionate kiss. If there was, what did everyone else in the group do? Just stare?


----------



## sidney2718

Rookie4 said:


> "Pitching Woo?" Is that the Reliever the Mets got from Korea?


Some of you folks are behind on your 1940's movies.


----------



## Entropy3000

sidney2718 said:


> Social kissing shouldn't be deep AT ALL. A meeting of the closed lips is minor.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we differ. I was, in fact, talking about all kinds of kissing. Some guys would object to having a guy kiss their wives on the cheek. Others would object to a closed lip kiss. Still others would not mind a kiss on the forehead. There are many different kinds of kisses.
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Deep kissing involving what was called in my youth as "tongue action" is very intimate. It involves penetration, motion, flowing bodily fluids, and often causes a physical reaction in the participants. It really is unacceptable. But that's me.
> 
> I'm the sarcastic type. I'd probably say to them "Let us know when you get done because SHE is going home right now."
> 
> 
> 
> That is the one thing that really bothers me as well. I have to assume that it wasn't a passionate kiss. If there was, what did everyone else in the group do? Just stare?


In any circles I have been in ... and there have been a wide variety over the years, kissing on the lips the way the OP described would be crossing a major boundary. This would be true in Brooklyn, Texas or anywhere else I have been. This must be a cultural thing for you. So that is your choice. I gather that the OP does not share this cultural aspect.

Minimizing this is as bad as blowing it all out.

I think as I have said before this is just one more socially awkward scenario, where we have a wife, a husband and another man and boundaries are challenged in a creative way. Eroding boundaries is all about plausible denial. Again that whole Kino Escalation thing.

Indeed if the OM did the kissing, I would expect a physical response on the husbands part. He would have a few less teeth if he did that with my wife for sure. The OP challenges us by having the wife be the aggressor. Indeed I have witnessed aggressive wives like this. In most cases it has been because their hubby likes the hotwifing kind of thing.

But we do have common ground. It sounds passionate enough to me. 

As boundaries go, why have this gray area? How about your kisses are not "full on lip" kisses. That is an easy boundary to see. Lip kisses are still affectionate if not passionate. 

Look, this as described by the OP was all sorts of wrong. Hopefully he took steps to kill this.


----------



## Entropy3000

sidney2718 said:


> True. But we humans are difficult. A major fraction of the population likes to flirt in some social situations. But one party can, as you say, be offended. My choice then would be to wait and say something when we were alone.


We just have to disagree. The place and time to ensure boundaries is when they are crossed. In fact before hand. It should be clear before they are crossed where they are. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle but you can make sure everyone understands where the boundary is.

You do know this is how this works ... right?

You push boundaries in this way. You have some plausible denial, but you count on the woman to not want to offend the offender and you count on the husband to be too passive. Indeed you will not do this if both the wife and husband put out the vibe that states, you better not even try.

It is about good boundaries. 

Otherwise how long do you sit and watch this?

But we disagree and that is fine. I am not that nice of guy basically.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yes, I can reluctantly agree maybe you excuse yourselves and have a private discussion the first time this occurs.

Here's, why I agree with E3.



> I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. T


First passive discussion about inappropriate behaviors.


> Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it.


 Second passive discussion about inappropriate behaviors. I know, we all read this differently. This is from my perspective.


So, the third time it is neither private and passive, you'll fully understand my disapproval. Nope, it doesn't have to be a rage induced yell session, like some posters are trying to imply. Like I said "WTH" get the other spouses attention and leave. Then we have the private discussion you are suggesting.

This is why I say he was too passive. As some of you suggest, flirting can be fun. So, maybe she didn't get it, cool. I can actually understand the OP because I used to buy into the mantra, "flirting is okay, you are a controlling jealous insecure man if you don't think so." Stopped believing that when my good friend's flirty wife cheated on him. He bought the mantra flavored Kool-aid I did and just sat back passively while she flirted.

After the public display, which is for EVERYONE including the receiver of the Kiss, I bet MONEY the birthday cheek peck wouldn't have happened. I'm of the firm belief he thought it was okay, even if it meant nothing to her which I do believe, because she opened the door with the "flirty fun kiss."

Thanks for the lively discussion, this is another circle so I am out.


----------



## Entropy3000

Well said. I am egressing as well.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Some folks are ok with kissing, some folks aren't .

Kissing Family Thanksgiving https://screen.yahoo.com/kissing-family-thanksgiving-000000561.html via Yahoo Screen app
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rookie4

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, I can reluctantly agree maybe you excuse yourselves and have a private discussion the first time this occurs.
> 
> Here's, why I agree with E3.
> 
> First passive discussion about inappropriate behaviors.
> Second passive discussion about inappropriate behaviors. I know, we all read this differently. This is from my perspective.
> 
> 
> So, the third time it is neither private and passive, you'll fully understand my disapproval. Nope, it doesn't have to be a rage induced yell session, like some posters are trying to imply. Like I said "WTH" get the other spouses attention and leave. Then we have the private discussion you are suggesting.
> 
> This is why I say he was too passive. As some of you suggest, flirting can be fun. So, maybe she didn't get it, cool. I can actually understand the OP because I used to buy into the mantra, "flirting is okay, you are a controlling jealous insecure man if you don't think so." Stopped believing that when my good friend's flirty wife cheated on him. He bought the mantra flavored Kool-aid I did and just sat back passively while she flirted.
> 
> After the public display, which is for EVERYONE including the receiver of the Kiss, I bet MONEY the birthday cheek peck wouldn't have happened. I'm of the firm belief he thought it was okay, even if it meant nothing to her which I do believe, because she opened the door with the "flirty fun kiss."
> 
> Thanks for the lively discussion, this is another circle so I am out.


As I said before, public humiliation wouldn't be my style. I would take my wife aside and give her hell, but in private. The OM and I would have one of those accidental meetings, I talked about. But that is me. I hope it works out for the OP. But I'm out of here, as well.


----------



## Not the real me

Still early days I know, but she has responded well to my suggestions. I've got to give her time now to put right her mistake. She still maintains nothing happened and promised me nothing ever would. Time will tell, but for the time being I have to give her the benefit of the doubt if I want to save my marriage.
I have battered her mentally with how I have been feeling, now's the time to let her respond in her way. Its not just about growing some balls being an alpha male or manning up, its about respect and whilst I feel that she has disrespected me by this, I have enough respect for her to give her chance to make amends. She does seem genuinely remorseful and says she wants to put our marriage back on track. I shall let you know what happens.


----------



## convert

OP If you could read the text to her sister it might help put your mind at easy (I hope).

if you could get her phone without her knowing


----------



## z_man

Not the real me said:


> She does seem genuinely remorseful and says she wants to put our marriage back on track.


As long as her actions align with her words.


----------



## Rookie4

convert said:


> OP If you could read the text to her sister it might help put your mind at easy (I hope).
> 
> if you could get her phone without her knowing


This is a really bad idea. Sneaking around will only lessen her respect for you, not increase it. You have already shown you can make the tough decisions that you need to, and that your passive actions are a thing of the past. She has agreed to your terms and is properly remorseful for her actions and is eager to make amends. Going Gestapo on her now, will only harm the good work both of you have started.


----------



## Hoosier

Late to this thread, kinda went thru it fast..... did OP ever check phone records to see if they were contacting each other?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hoosier said:


> Late to this thread, kinda went thru it fast..... did OP ever check phone records to see if they were contacting each other?


Yes, and it was clean


----------



## vellocet

sidney2718 said:


> Would her getting down on the ground and licking her husband's shoes qualify as something more than talk?


Don't be ridiculous. Even when I agree with an idea from your line of thinking, or someone like yours, you want to find something to argue about, don't you?


----------



## vellocet

I think some people need to read the first post again.

This was not just a matter of a quick peck and saying goodbye.

She has a behavior of repeating her custom with this one guy.

After repeated flirtations, OP witnessed the following:



> Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".



Not appropriate, end of story.


----------



## vellocet

Not the real me said:


> Still early days I know, but she has responded well to my suggestions. I've got to give her time now to put right her mistake. She still maintains nothing happened and promised me nothing ever would. Time will tell, but for the time being I have to give her the benefit of the doubt if I want to save my marriage.
> I have battered her mentally with how I have been feeling, now's the time to let her respond in her way. Its not just about growing some balls being an alpha male or manning up, its about respect and whilst I feel that she has disrespected me by this, I have enough respect for her to give her chance to make amends. She does seem genuinely remorseful and says she wants to put our marriage back on track. I shall let you know what happens.



Very well my man, I hope she is sincere and changes her behavior. I wish you the best. Let us know what happens in the future.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> I think some people need to read the first post again.
> 
> This was not just a matter of a quick peck and saying goodbye.
> 
> She has a behavior of repeating her custom with this one guy.
> 
> After repeated flirtations, OP witnessed the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not appropriate, end of story.


Vellocet, I don't think anybody thinks that this is appropriate.:scratchhead:


----------



## vellocet

brendanoco said:


> why havent you told him to back the fu*k off.


Because what he witnessed was his wife grabbing the guy's face, kissing him and telling him, "I love you"

He can tell him to back off, but not before he deals with his wife's inappropriate actions.


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> Vellocet, I don't think anybody thinks that this is appropriate.:scratchhead:


There are a couple of people here saying, "don't overthink too much about a kiss" or "get over the kiss", or, "it was just a kiss"

And there is a debate that even Entropy picked up on, which was whether or not this crossed the line enough to be inappropriate.

One guy said this:


> Flirting can be fun for both of us, but that is all it is. sure it's exciting, but if nobody is hiding anything than I don't see the harm. As in a kiss is just a kiss.



With another guy saying:


> My advise is get over the kiss



Nobody would say such things if they thought it was inappropriate, because if it is inappropriate there would be nothing to "just get over"

So yes, there are a few here that doesn't think she did anything inappropriate. Just a kiss between friends....no big deal


----------



## thummper

Sorry, but a wife has no business kissing other men. I don't know an awful lot of guys who wouldn't be upset at seeing their wife lip smacking someone else, and you can definitely count me among that group. I don't give a damn if that makes me look insecure or controlling. Ain't gonna happen!


----------



## treyvion

thummper said:


> Sorry, but a wife has no business kissing other men. I don't know an awful lot of guys who wouldn't be upset at seeing their wife lip smacking someone else, and you can definitely count me among that group. I don't give a damn if that makes me look insecure or controlling. Ain't gonna happen!


Sounds like they tounged each other and shared their secret intimacies in the brief moment and were caught. I know it was hot for her to have the man right under her husbands nose.

If you tongue them you might as well penetrate them.


----------



## vellocet

thummper said:


> Sorry, but a wife has no business kissing other men. I don't know an awful lot of guys who wouldn't be upset at seeing their wife lip smacking someone else, and you can definitely count me among that group. I don't give a damn if that makes me look insecure or controlling. Ain't gonna happen!


Its not controlling to expect a wife to act like a wife and refrain from crossing obvious boundaries.

And something else. She isn't just in general flirty like this with all the guys. Its just this one guy. So IMO, there is more going on here. She acts like this with the other guy because she is attracted to him. Giving him the signals....seeing if it might lead somewhere else when....somewhere else perhaps.


----------



## thummper

Does make you wonder, doesn't it? Those two were thick as thieves....couldn't seem to keep their hands off each other. Was there ever an opportunity for them to be together in secret? Might be worth looking into.


----------



## Graywolf2

Not the real me said:


> I have battered her mentally with how I have been feeling, now's the time to let her respond in her way.


:iagree:



convert said:


> OP If you could read the text to her sister it might help put your mind at easy (I hope).


:iagree:

"Trust, but verify"
Ronald Reagan

:iagree:

Put a GPS on her car. Don’t get a real time one. Just get an inexpensive one and check it once a week or once a month.


----------



## treyvion

thummper said:


> Does make you wonder, doesn't it? Those two were thick as thieves....couldn't seem to keep their hands off each other. Was there ever an opportunity for them to be together in secret? Might be worth looking into.


You know they did. This is how their boldness grew to this point.


----------



## convert

Rookie4 said:


> This is a really bad idea. Sneaking around will only lessen her respect for you, not increase it. You have already shown you can make the tough decisions that you need to, and that your passive actions are a thing of the past. She has agreed to your terms and is properly remorseful for her actions and is eager to make amends. Going Gestapo on her now, will only harm the good work both of you have started.


the inappropriate behavior has been going on and off for about 4 years and to have it stopped in a week?? well maybe...time will tell.

in a marriage it is not going Gestapo to check on your spouse when your gut is talking to you; It just isn't. If spouse need that much privacy it may not be much of a marriage, but this is coming from Me a BS, so my my opinion is going to be always skewed. 

checking the texts to her sister maybe able put this whole matter to rest. if going behind her back to check the phone offends some then maybe asking her to see her phone would be better.


----------



## Nucking Futs

convert said:


> the inappropriate behavior has been going on and off for about 4 years and to have it stopped in a week?? well maybe...time will tell.
> 
> in a marriage it is not going Gestapo to check on your spouse when your gut is talking to you; It just isn't. If spouse need that much privacy it may not be much of a marriage, but this is coming from Me a BS, so my my opinion is going to be always skewed.
> 
> checking the texts to her sister maybe able put this whole matter to rest. if going behind her back to check the phone offends some then maybe asking her to see her phone would be better.


I agree with this. I don't think there was any more to this than the OP already knows about, but if your gut is telling you something is up you'd have to be a fool to ignore it.

So the OP needs to read the texts if his gut is telling him he doesn't have the whole story, preferably clandestinely but if that's not possible then ask for the phone. Note that if he can't do it secretly because she's glued to the phone or he doesn't know the passcode those are red flags.


----------



## convert

Nucking Futs said:


> I agree with this. I don't think there was any more to this than the OP already knows about, but if your gut is telling you something is up you'd have to be a fool to ignore it.
> 
> So the OP needs to read the texts if his gut is telling him he doesn't have the whole story, preferably clandestinely but if that's not possible then ask for the phone. Note that if he can't do it secretly because she's glued to the phone or he doesn't know the passcode those are red flags.


I agree, I too think maybe it is all good.
If Op's gut is not saying anything then maybe not needed, but if it is, he can trust but verify.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> There are a couple of people here saying, "don't overthink too much about a kiss" or "get over the kiss", or, "it was just a kiss"
> 
> And there is a debate that even Entropy picked up on, which was whether or not this crossed the line enough to be inappropriate.
> 
> One guy said this:
> 
> 
> With another guy saying:
> 
> 
> Nobody would say such things if they thought it was inappropriate, because if it is inappropriate there would be nothing to "just get over"
> 
> So yes, there are a few here that doesn't think she did anything inappropriate. Just a kiss between friends....no big deal


Then you agree that it was the situation, and not the kiss of itself? I can get behind this idea. I have always thought that her actions were inappropriate, but do not believe it was cheating. On her part. the OM would if he could.


----------



## Rookie4

thummper said:


> Sorry, but a wife has no business kissing other men. I don't know an awful lot of guys who wouldn't be upset at seeing their wife lip smacking someone else, and you can definitely count me among that group. I don't give a damn if that makes me look insecure or controlling. Ain't gonna happen!


AS I said, it depends on the kiss and the situation.


----------



## Rookie4

treyvion said:


> Sounds like they tounged each other and shared their secret intimacies in the brief moment and were caught. I know it was hot for her to have the man right under her husbands nose.
> 
> If you tongue them you might as well penetrate them.


You are making up scenerios to suit youself. Nowhere did the OP say that tongues were involved, did he? If he did, show me where. Stick to the OP's story. He is the only one who knows.


----------



## Rookie4

convert said:


> the inappropriate behavior has been going on and off for about 4 years and to have it stopped in a week?? well maybe...time will tell.
> 
> in a marriage it is not going Gestapo to check on your spouse when your gut is talking to you; It just isn't. If spouse need that much privacy it may not be much of a marriage, but this is coming from Me a BS, so my my opinion is going to be always skewed.
> 
> checking the texts to her sister maybe able put this whole matter to rest. if going behind her back to check the phone offends some then maybe asking her to see her phone would be better.


I have no problem with checking the phone records, and I believe that the OP stated that is what he already did. But do it in the open. Don't sneak.


----------



## thummper

Not the real me said:


> I can't swear that the breadstick game saw her partnered with him as I wasn't in the same room. *I haven't checked any emails or texts *as until that point I trusted her 100%


Still haven't checked??? :scratchhead: As Sherlock Holmes said," Data, data, data! You cannot build bricks without clay!" You need to have *all* the background information between these two. I tend to be a suspicious person. You say you and your wife met this man way back in 1988 and have attended numerous social events with him and his wife over the years. Then you say your wife has almost immediately told you that there will be no contact and you "never have to see him again." That was awfully quick, don't you think? Perhaps, and here's where my suspicion raises its ugly head, she doesn't want contact for fear of what you may discover. And, come on!!!  She doesn't "remember" what he said that caused her to lay a big kiss on him and tell him she loves him, too???!!! I've never been so wasted that I couldn't tell you, in detail, what I said or did the night before. That's just smoke and mirrors.....obvious prevarication! She just doesn't *want* to tell you what they said to each other for fear of your reaction. Wake up. There's been a lot more going on between those two than you've discovered so far. Get busy and *CHECK THE E-MAILS AND THE TEXTS*! What did she communicate to her sister? Find out!! Stop dragging your feet about it. For your own peace of mind you need to get into full detective mode. You deserve to know exactly what's been going on. Otherwise you're always going to wonder, and that's as damaging to your relationship with your wife as just about anything I can think of. Good luck to you and her. I hope you can put this all to rest.


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> Then you agree that it was the situation, and not the kiss of itself?


No, I don't agree. It was the kiss itself. Something odd about people that think its ok to kiss other people on the lips when married. 




> I can get behind this idea.


Then let your wife know its ok with you to give other men nice deep kisses on the mouth. They are just friends afterall, right?



> I have always thought that her actions were inappropriate, but do not believe it was cheating. On her part. the OM would if he could.


The OM would if he could, but she wouldn't? You do realize SHE is the one that grabbed his face, kissed him, and told HIM she loved him, right?

Is it cheating? Depends on how the OP looks at it. I don't believe its cheating in a complete sense. But if she is smitten with the guy, it is. And I believe she is attracted to him. Why him and nobody else? She is pushing the boundaries and OP needs to do something about it.


----------



## Rookie4

vellocet said:


> No, I don't agree. It was the kiss itself. Something odd about people that think its ok to kiss other people on the lips when married.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then let your wife know its ok with you to give other men nice deep kisses on the mouth. They are just friends afterall, right?
> 
> 
> 
> The OM would if he could, but she wouldn't? You do realize SHE is the one that grabbed his face, kissed him, and told HIM she loved him, right?
> 
> Is it cheating? Depends on how the OP looks at it. I don't believe its cheating in a complete sense. But if she is smitten with the guy, it is. And I believe she is attracted to him. Why him and nobody else? She is pushing the boundaries and OP needs to do something about it.


Be fair. We don't know it was only this guy, she might have done it with others.
As far as kissing goes, I have had lots of women kiss me on the lips, from teenagers to grandmas. So what? Most were just pecks, but some were as "deep" as this apparently was. Didn't make me cheat. Didn't make me attracted to them. Didn't do anything at all. If I was uncomfortable I told them to get lost, but most times , I just ignored it, and carried on with what I was doing. It is the SITUATION that is inappropriate. I saw my GF kiss another woman on the lips , this weekend. Both women are real hotties, BTW. Do I think my GF is a Lesbian? Don't think so.
Plus, you have no proof that the OPs wife is"smitten" with the OM. She has said it meant nothing, and she is innocent until the OP has proof that she is not.


----------



## convert

Rookie4 said:


> Be fair. We don't know it was only this guy, she might have done it with others.
> As far as kissing goes, I have had lots of women kiss me on the lips, from teenagers to grandmas. So what? Most were just pecks, but some were as "deep" as this apparently was. Didn't make me cheat. Didn't make me attracted to them. Didn't do anything at all. If I was uncomfortable I told them to get lost, but most times , I just ignored it, and carried on with what I was doing. *It is the SITUATION that is inappropriate*. I saw my GF kiss another woman on the lips , this weekend. Both women are real hotties, BTW. Do I think my GF is a Lesbian? Don't think so.
> Plus, you have no proof that the OPs wife is"smitten" with the OM. She has said it meant nothing, and she is innocent until the OP has proof that she is not.


and the inappropriate situation was the "Kiss" (on the lips) with "I love you too"
op has said this this is what bothered him among other things.


----------



## convert

Not the real me said:


> 1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.
> 
> We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years. About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen. Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle. I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife. She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry". I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife. Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye. Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it. Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself". By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down. Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".
> I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her. Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up. This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them. Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go. She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
> Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before. I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things.
> We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve.
> So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with.
> Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


I have Quoted the original post here, we tend to loss the content after several pages of posting


----------



## Rookie4

convert said:


> and the inappropriate situation was the "Kiss" (on the lips) with "I love you too"
> op has said this this is what bothered him among other things.


Bull. The situation would have been just as inappropriate , if she had rubbed his back or held hands with him, and called him"Honey or Sweetie". It was her interaction with the man that was inappropriate, not specifically what they did.


----------



## convert

Rookie4 said:


> Bull. The situation would have been just as inappropriate , if she had rubbed his back or held hands with him, and called him"Honey or Sweetie". It was her interaction with the man that was inappropriate, not specifically what they did.


You are making my point

In this situation it was the kiss, that made him finally talk to his wife


----------



## convert

Not the real me said:


> 1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.
> 
> We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years. About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen. Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle. I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife. She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry". I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife. Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye. Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it. Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself". By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down. Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, *she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too"*.
> *I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed*. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her. Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up. This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them. Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go. She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
> Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before. I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things.
> We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve.
> So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with.
> Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


again here in OP on words
parts bolded

It bothered OP enough to be in a "delayed shock" as to what he just witnessed and the kiss initiated the talk with his wife 

now it may not bother you 

but we have to look at it with respect to op's context here


----------



## vellocet

Rookie4 said:


> Be fair. We don't know it was only this guy, she might have done it with others.


Not according to the OP. But then again, yes, she could be crossing the line with other men. For that matter, she could be screwing them. We can play the "what if" game all day.





> As far as kissing goes, I have had lots of women kiss me on the lips, from teenagers to grandmas. So what? Most were just pecks, but some were as "deep" as this apparently was. Didn't make me cheat. Didn't make me attracted to them. Didn't do anything at all. If I was uncomfortable I told them to get lost, but most times , I just ignored it, and carried on with what I was doing. It is the SITUATION that is inappropriate. I saw my GF kiss another woman on the lips , this weekend. Both women are real hotties, BTW. Do I think my GF is a Lesbian? Don't think so.
> Plus, you have no proof that the OPs wife is"smitten" with the OM. She has said it meant nothing, and she is innocent until the OP has proof that she is not.


I didn't say she was "smitten" I said IF she was smitten. Didn't say she was without a doubt. 

And of course she said it meant nothing, like she is going to say, "yes, I kissed him because I want him in the worst way" She could be telling the truth. But if she was "smitten" by him, she sure as crap isn't going to tell him.

And she isn't innocent of anything with regards to this situation. She disrespected her husband, inappropriately canoodling with this other guy. She isn't innocent of that. He caught her.

And if you can have lip kisses with women and think its ok, more power to you. You are not him and he obviously doesn't feel the same as you.


----------



## Rookie4

convert said:


> You are making my point
> 
> In this situation it was the kiss, the comment about her breast, and others


IT was NOT only the kiss, then was it? It was the situation, as you said yourself. It was the kiss, the comments and the games, ALL of these things not just the kiss by itself. .


----------



## convert

I just reread the original post myself... she _may not_ be smitten with him but he is with her for sure.

I do believe they are doing right by staying away


----------



## convert

Rookie4 said:


> IT was NOT only the kiss, then was it? It was the situation, as you said yourself. It was the kiss, the comments and the games, ALL of these things not just the kiss by itself. .


Yes it was It was enough to be in a *delayed shock*

I bolded it and made it a big font so you could see it (in post #443)

wait i will make it a bigger font.

and *what he just witnessed was the kiss on the lips with the "I love you too"* and the "Kiss" is what prompted the talk with his wife, it was the clincher.


----------



## Rookie4

OK, I'm done with this thread. Look, OP, stay doing what you are doing now. Set her boundaries, check her records and give her time to prove herself. Some posters are going to condemn her and will not be happy until you condemn her just as much. Do what you feel is right and don't be railroaded into painting the scarlet letter on her , unless you are sure she is cheating. 
If she is as good as her word, the problem is solved. In the future , you probably should take action sooner. And keep an eye on the OM, and confront him if necessary. Good Luck.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm in shock this debate is still going...


----------



## thummper

Must have struck a nerve with a lot of guys.


----------



## z_man

Rookie4 said:


> OK, I'm done with this thread.


Yeah!


----------



## naiveonedave

I have witnessed events like this in the past. Totally inappropriate behavior of the W. I can recall two instances just like this. In one the couple left the party and everyone stood there in silence for a few minutes. In another, the dude acted just the like the OP. I thought to myself at the time, "who would you handle the disrpect of that, Naiveone?". 

I really feel for the OP, because what she did was a) wrong, b) shocked him so he could not act and c) now anything he does about it makes him out to be 'controlling'.


----------



## treyvion

naiveonedave said:


> I have witnessed events like this in the past. Totally inappropriate behavior of the W. I can recall two instances just like this. In one the couple left the party and everyone stood there in silence for a few minutes. In another, the dude acted just the like the OP. I thought to myself at the time, "who would you handle the disrpect of that, Naiveone?".
> 
> I really feel for the OP, because what she did was a) wrong, b) shocked him so he could not act and c) now anything he does about it makes him out to be 'controlling'.


PUt him in a bad position and it cannot be ignored.


----------



## thummper

naiveonedave said:


> I have witnessed events like this in the past. Totally inappropriate behavior of the W. I can recall two instances just like this. *In one the couple left the party and everyone stood there in silence for a few minutes*. In another, the dude acted just the like the OP. I thought to myself at the time, "who would you handle the disrpect of that, Naiveone?".
> 
> I really feel for the OP, because what she did was a) wrong, b) shocked him so he could not act and c) now anything he does about it makes him out to be 'controlling'.


I believe that this is what the OP should have done. If he didn't want to confront her in front of the assembled group, and Rookie4 might have a point there, then he should have simply told her,
"We're leaving.......now!" And hustled her out the door for a private confrontation about boundaries with other men.


----------



## sidney2718

We may never find out. The OP seems to have left the building.


----------



## treyvion

thummper said:


> I believe that this is what the OP should have done. If he didn't want to confront her in front of the assembled group, and Rookie4 might have a point there, then he should have simply told her,
> "We're leaving.......now!" And hustled her out the door for a private confrontation about boundaries with other men.


He grabs her hand and she pulls it away, I'm going no where with you right now!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

sidney2718 said:


> We may never find out. The OP seems to have left the building.


I don't think the OP liked the tune that most of us were playing, so he changed the channel...

It sounded to me like he'd been letting his wife get away with being so touchy feely with other men for far too long.

Now he's trying to get his point accross to her, but he's afraid to just put his foot down and tell her if it happens again, then he's leaving.

When a wishy washy gets together with a touchy feely it's never easy for them to pull back on the reins, when it's been going on for the intire relationship. It's the norm' for them. They just say, "Well s/he's always been like that. There's nothing to worry about.".

I'm sure that she'll stop doing it, in front of him anyway...


----------



## thummper

treyvion said:


> He grabs her hand and she pulls it away, *I'm going no where with you right now!*




Fine, see if you can get a ride home.


----------



## DoveEnigma13

Not the real me said:


> 1st time poster. so apologies if this topic has been covered before.
> 
> We have been friends with a couple for over twenty five years. About four or so years ago we were at a party at their house and whilst mingling I heard some laughter from the kitchen. Someone told me that a few of the party goers (my wife included) had got some breadsticks and were sharing them by eating either end and meeting in the middle. I don't know who she "shared" with as I never made an issue of it even though I thought it a bit strange and when brought up recently she says she can't remember. Time goes on and at other parties I start to notice the odd inappropriate remark or a bit of innuendo from the guy from this other couple aimed towards my wife. She is quite busty and on one occasion he made comment that "our kids would never go hungry". I sound like a wimp for not saying anything but as I don't see myself as the jealous type I never read too much into it as it didn't seem to bother my wife. Over the last couple of years his manner has changed and upon leaving any time spent with them he always makes a point of hugging my wife as a way of saying goodbye. Again I don't make a fuss but as this gets more frequent I start to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. My wife would say I was reading too much into things so still I keep quiet and just grin and bear it. Fast forward to the events of this year. In March it was my daughters birthday and we have a bit of a get together at our house. night goes on and when it's time to leave I notice my wife is by his side in the hallway. I didn't hear what she said to him but I caught him smile at her and tell her to "behave herself". By now I haven't read too much into it although it sounds crazy that I overlooked it all now I am writing it down. Then the killer blow. beginning of May we have in the diary to go for a meal out with this couple. We eat and whilst we all have a drink I wouldn't consider any of us drunk. Out of the blue and again on the back of something he says but I don't catch in the busy pub, she full on puts her hands on his face, kisses him full on the lips and says "I love you too".
> I am at this point in delayed shock as to what I have just witnessed. Nothing is said and ten minutes after this she gets up and says she needs the ladies room. (The toilets are upstairs away from the bar) He almost simultaneously stands and says he needs the toilet too. In a moment I didn't know whether to stay or follow. Maybe had I waited I might have got my proof, she says not as I have brought it up since, although I will never know as I followed and had a comfort break myself. To keep an eye on them. The night ends and we head home. I work the following day and we go through Saturday evening as normal. although it is eating me. So on Sunday morning I confront her. Of course she denies everything and says she hadn't even remembered about it till I just brought it up. This is when I mention all the previous innuendo etc. She says I am paranoid and that I'm imagining things that aren't real. We already have another day out planned with them. Horse Racing in June with a larger group of friends. We argue and I put across my pinion that I would rather not go. She repeats that it meant nothing and after a few tense weeks I swallow my pride and we go. She assures me nothing untoward will happen and if it does she would say something.
> Fair pay to her, when we arrive she keeps her distance from him, and any conversation is limited to one word answers. Things are seeming to go alright, then just before the second to last race he comes over and puts his hand on her shoulder, kisses her cheek and wishes her happy birthday belatedly from 4 days before. I am fuming and about to explode. She says nothing and takes me away from the situation to let me cool down, reassuring me that it was nothing. And I am being paranoid and reading too much into things.
> We keep our distance but after the race meeting we have a meal planned for 12 of us and we head off there, ensuring we are sat away from him on the table. Things are going well until she gets desert. he leans over and asks what she is having, she replies "rocky road, do you want some?" he says "No, what else you got?" she says "just some fruit, do you want some?" he replies with a smirk, "if I keep asking can I have anything I want?" (again when mentioned later she says that he was on about the pudding and in no way being suggestive) I'm sorry but I don't think she is that naïve.
> So that's me. Sorry for the long post. I have tried to just get in the main facts as there is more I could embellish it with.
> Interested to see your guys thoughts on this as we are at a stalemate at the moment.


Next party go in like the old prison adage, but instead of finding the biggest guy and knocking his teeth in, grab the smallest guy by the ankles and start swinging him at the dude.


----------



## Dyokemm

"He grabs her hand and she pulls it away, I'm going no where with you right now!"

Instant dealbreaker in my book if she had just put on a display like OP's WW.

I would walk out instantly and go completely dark on communications....and by the time she finally found a way to get home her sh*t would be packed in suitcases and garbage bags, and the first words out of my mouth would be, "XXXX (whichever of her relatives I could get a hold of) is on their way to pick you and your crap up....don't ever darken my doorway again."


----------



## Not the real me

Hi Guys and Gals, 
Not disappeared off the face of the earth. I have read your comments with interest. Update is that so far she is turning into the model wife. Phone is as clean as a whistle. We haven't spoken or mentioned the incident for almost a week now. And tonight we go away without the kids for the weekend. I will let you know how we get on. 
Thanks again for your support. You have made me strong enough to believe when the self doubt was beginning to creep in. I feel more like the old me again.


----------



## convert

Not the real me said:


> Hi Guys and Gals,
> Not disappeared off the face of the earth. I have read your comments with interest. Update is that so far she is turning into the model wife. Phone is as clean as a whistle. We haven't spoken or mentioned the incident for almost a week now. And tonight we go away without the kids for the weekend. I will let you know how we get on.
> Thanks again for your support. You have made me strong enough to believe when the self doubt was beginning to creep in. I feel more like the old me again.


thanks for the update.

I love good news here


----------



## jnj express

I know everything seems good now, and maybe there will be nothing more---but for your own peace of mind, and to insure nothing happens again-------you need to cut contact with this couple----COMPLETELY------there is still by-play between them, and your wife is still being civil to a man that she kissed hard and with passion

I don't know if there is more to this on an underground level, but if you don't wanna return here telling us more sad stories---your wife, needs to completely ignore this guy---if he comes anywhere near her----SHE MOVES AWAY---if he tries to talk to her----SHE DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE HIM---if he touches her----YOU MOVE IN THEN AND THERE

Your wife may be doing what is needed to save her mge---but no one has told her would-be lover----there is to be no more contact---so he is still trying

As to the kiss---your wife needs to go to IC, and discuss the issue---there was something there, and what in her mind led her to a passionate kiss with another man, especially with you right there, and then the 2 of them trying to sneak away at the same time---is not an innocent nothing---it needs to be dealt with----if not it will always be on your mind---so whether she likes it or not, send her to IC, and find out what is causing your wife to do these things


----------



## Rookie4

Dude, thanks for the update. It's good to see that you and your wife seem to be on the same page. Have a great time.


----------



## bandit.45

In another thread Turnera said that women respond to strength. Man, if you take any lesson out of this situation, make sure you get that truth in your head. 

Do what you can to show her strength and resolve every day, in every thing you do. When you go out for this weekend, YOU do the planning and YOU tell your wife where you guys will be going and what you will be doing. Don't ask her. Women dig it when the man takes charge and handles the logistics. 

Make sure it's all romantic, fun and...if your British psyche can handle it...spontaneous.


----------



## tom67

Not the real me said:


> Hi Guys and Gals,
> Not disappeared off the face of the earth. I have read your comments with interest. Update is that so far she is turning into the model wife. Phone is as clean as a whistle. We haven't spoken or mentioned the incident for almost a week now. And tonight we go away without the kids for the weekend. I will let you know how we get on.
> Thanks again for your support. You have made me strong enough to believe when the self doubt was beginning to creep in. I feel more like the old me again.


Good


----------



## Rookie4

bandit.45 said:


> In another thread Turnera said that women respond to strength. Man, if you take any lesson out of this situation, make sure you get that truth in your head.
> 
> Do what you can to show her strength and resolve every day, in every thing you do. When you go out for this weekend, YOU do the planning and YOU tell your wife where you guys will be going and what you will be doing. Don't ask her. Women dig it when the man takes charge and handles the logistics.
> 
> Make sure it's all romantic, fun and...if your British psyche can handle it...spontaneous.


Limeys.... spontaneous? You're dreaming, Bandit.


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## Q tip

Rookie4 said:


> Limeys.... spontaneous? You're dreaming, Bandit.


He could be from Deeside...


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## thummper

Good luck and good fortune!!! And I'm hoping there might just be a little romance involved in this weekend.  Snuggle up and just enjoy each other. :smthumbup:


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## bandit.45

Q tip said:


> He could be from Deeside...


They smoke alot of dope in Deeside?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip

bandit.45 said:


> They smoke alot of dope in Deeside?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They also smoke beef.


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## Want2babettrme

Q tip said:


> They also smoke beef.



Hard to light a sirloin.


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## bandit.45

Want2babettrme said:


> Hard to light a sirloin.


Yes... That's been my experience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Ha! You haven't been around OUR kitchen! I can set fire to anything...


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## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Ha! You haven't been around OUR kitchen! I can set fire to anything...


I want to kiss you in front of your husband T.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

ah woo woo... i'm tellin

LOL

jk


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## missthelove2013

I was in similar situation...it was a husband of one of her friends, so not my friend, but we had hung out and drank on many occasion

and like YOUR wife, MY ex was NOT setting boundries...she enjoyed the flirting and he kept escalating it

at a dinner party he leaned over and scooped dip off her cleavage she had just spilled, with a chip and ate it and licked his lips laughing

I said in front of about 10 people "how much more do you expect me to ignore before I drag your ass outside and beat the living hell out of you"...I said it calmly and everyone thought I was kidding...I calmly said "I am as serious as a heart attack, its bad enough you dont respect my wife or our marriage, and that SHE wont stop it, but NOW you are disrespecting me...mark my f***ing words if I EVER see you say or do anything to my wife that make me even remotely uncomfortable, I am going to beat on you until you are dead"...during this long diatribe my wife is trying to talk over me and smooth the situatiuon, HIS wife is AGREEING with me and I get a couple "I TOLD YOU IT WAS INNAPRPOPRIATE" from her to him...

I stood up and told him not to doubt me and told my wife we are leaving before I kill this fu**er...we never saw them again...

conincidentaly wife and I had very hot sex that night...my ex was a slvt but he is one of the few guys she didnt bang


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## bandit.45

missthelove2013 said:


> I was in similar situation...it was a husband of one of her friends, so not my friend, but we had hung out and drank on many occasion
> 
> and like YOUR wife, MY ex was NOT setting boundries...she enjoyed the flirting and he kept escalating it
> 
> at a dinner party he leaned over and scooped dip off her cleavage she had just spilled, with a chip and ate it and licked his lips laughing
> 
> I said in front of about 10 people "how much more do you expect me to ignore before I drag your ass outside and beat the living hell out of you"...I said it calmly and everyone thought I was kidding...I calmly said "I am as serious as a heart attack, its bad enough you dont respect my wife or our marriage, and that SHE wont stop it, but NOW you are disrespecting me...mark my f***ing words if I EVER see you say or do anything to my wife that make me even remotely uncomfortable, I am going to beat on you until you are dead"...during this long diatribe my wife is trying to talk over me and smooth the situatiuon, HIS wife is AGREEING with me and I get a couple "I TOLD YOU IT WAS INNAPRPOPRIATE" from her to him...
> 
> I stood up and told him not to doubt me and told my wife we are leaving before I kill this fu**er...we never saw them again...
> 
> conincidentaly wife and I had very hot sex that night...my ex was a slvt but he is one of the few guys she didnt bang



Nicely done. :smthumbup:


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## vellocet

missthelove2013 said:


> I was in similar situation...it was a husband of one of her friends, so not my friend, but we had hung out and drank on many occasion
> 
> and like YOUR wife, MY ex was NOT setting boundries...she enjoyed the flirting and he kept escalating it
> 
> at a dinner party he leaned over and scooped dip off her cleavage she had just spilled, with a chip and ate it and licked his lips laughing
> 
> I said in front of about 10 people "how much more do you expect me to ignore before I drag your ass outside and beat the living hell out of you"...I said it calmly and everyone thought I was kidding...I calmly said "I am as serious as a heart attack, its bad enough you dont respect my wife or our marriage, and that SHE wont stop it, but NOW you are disrespecting me...mark my f***ing words if I EVER see you say or do anything to my wife that make me even remotely uncomfortable, I am going to beat on you until you are dead"...during this long diatribe my wife is trying to talk over me and smooth the situatiuon, HIS wife is AGREEING with me and I get a couple "I TOLD YOU IT WAS INNAPRPOPRIATE" from her to him...
> 
> I stood up and told him not to doubt me and told my wife we are leaving before I kill this fu**er...we never saw them again...
> 
> conincidentaly wife and I had very hot sex that night...my ex was a slvt but he is one of the few guys she didnt bang


How dare you go all Neanderthal/Gestapo and stand up for yourself!!


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## tom67

vellocet said:


> How dare you go all Neanderthal/Gestapo and stand up for yourself!!


Yea don't watch the tv show "the View"


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## vellocet

tom67 said:


> Yea don't watch the tv show "the View"


Not to worry......I don't.


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## Blossom Leigh

That show makes me ill.


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## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Yea don't watch the tv show "the View"





vellocet said:


> Not to worry......I don't.





Blossom Leigh said:


> That show makes me ill.


LOL


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## vellocet

Not the real me said:


> Hi Guys and Gals,
> Not disappeared off the face of the earth. I have read your comments with interest. Update is that so far she is turning into the model wife. Phone is as clean as a whistle. We haven't spoken or mentioned the incident for almost a week now. And tonight we go away without the kids for the weekend. I will let you know how we get on.
> Thanks again for your support. You have made me strong enough to believe when the self doubt was beginning to creep in. I feel more like the old me again.


Sounds good, but more importantly, let us know what happens the next time she drinks around this other guy. Hopefully she keeps hands off.


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## bandit.45

Is this thread still going?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

vellocet said:


> Sounds good, but more importantly, let us know what happens the next time she drinks around this other guy. Hopefully she keeps hands off.


She's not going to do it in front of him anymore.

He said that he was away on business on a semi-regular basis. How bad did she get when she was out, alone, drinking knowing that he wouldn't be home for a few day...

He said that she's been this way during their entire relationship. When she drinks, she becomes bolder. When she drinks a lot, she's even worse.

What are the odds that this will be the last time that she does this?... I give it about a 25/30 chance that she'll permanently change hers was. If she does do it again, it'll be with in the next 2-3 years.


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