# Newly Wed Looking for Advice



## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

Hello, 

I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend. 

Backstory:
I'm 30 and my friend is 31. My husband is 36. I made the mistake of disclosing too much of my friends personal information to my husband, just my thoughts about the different men she was involved with and who I felt would be a better fit for her etc. etc. He felt like her dating around was "hoe-ish" behavior because one day, he asked if she was sleeping with these men she was dating and I replied, "some of them". He feels that she is a bad influence on me and that I should hang around married women. She's literally my bestfriend and has been for over 8 years now. He and I have been together for 11yrs but recently married this year. Also, it is a little complicated because before we got married, my curiosity got the best of me and I experimented with a women who just so happens to be a mutual friend of the both of us. I no longer speak with her friend but he feels like my friend influenced the situation to happen and that it wouldn't have happened if my best friend and I didn't know each other. 
Even though this happened before we got married and I don't communicate with the other friend anymore, he doesn't trust my friendship with my best friend and feels that whenever I'm around her, there is the possibility that the other women will be there too and I will become involved with her again. 

My relationship with my friend has been the start of many many arguments over the past few months because he doesn't want me being around her or really communicating with her. I tried to explain to him that it was my choice to entertain the other women, my best friend can't influence or force me to do anything, my best friend isn't gay and isn't involved with women, she's just friends with a women that is gay and that's how I met her. He feels like I'm just sticking up for her and a real friend wouldn't condone or allow the situation to happen. My feelings is that I'm an adult and I made the decision and even when she did express her discontent with me and her friend sleeping together, I did it anyway. I feel like his anger should be directed more so at me but for some reason, he's taking it out on her to the point that he's telling me now.. to choose. 

We have two kids together and I'm just feeling like it's extremely unfair for him to put me in a position to tell my closest friend that we can no longer be friends. He moved all of his things out of our apartment and told me to figure it out (bills) on my own, he's not coming back as long as I continue to be friends with her. Idk what to do.. Do I continue to fight for my marriage or is this an unhealthy response and I should let it go anyways.. 

Thanks for any advice <3


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## bobprophet (6 mo ago)

It's a tough situation.

My first thought would be, "show me your friends and I'll show you your future". I'd be concerned as well.

That said, this ultimatum seems a bit over the top. 

Try and find middle ground. Try and mutually set some boundaries, such as no going out to bars together.... Things your husband won't find threatening.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

You’ve been with your husband as long as you’ve known your friend. Many years now. My guess is your husband doesn’t trust your friend, and doesn’t trust you. He knew what he was getting into. Something must have happened more to this story. He must have more of a reason, now suddenly, to give you the ultimatum.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

bobprophet said:


> It's a tough situation.
> 
> My first thought would be, "show me your friends and I'll show you your future". I'd be concerned as well.
> 
> ...


Concerned about what?

The friend is a single woman, who dates.

Now single woman who date should be discriminated against and married women shouldn't be friends twith them? Spare me.


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## bobprophet (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Concerned about what?
> 
> The friend is a single woman, who dates.
> 
> Now single woman who date should be discriminated against and married women shouldn't be friends twith them? Spare me.


I think you misunderstood my post 110%+.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I understand where your husband is coming from. I have personally witnessed the effects of friends on wives to the extent that the wives strayed as a result (eventually). However, your husband's way of handling this sounds a bit extreme and irresponsible since you have two kids and he has left you to fend for yourself with them financially?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LoveisKind said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend.
> 
> ...


1. Your husband is protecting his marriage, and he is correct to do so. If he feels your friend is a bad influence on you/your marriage, he is right to set boundaries that would limit that exposure.
That said, there’s a difference between being friends with someone and hanging out with them in questionable or potentially problematic scenarios.

I have dealt with this exact scenario in my own marriage (minus the lesbian encounters) so I’ll share my thoughts an experience.

While most of her friends are married with similar behavioral/value structures as ours, my wife does have a close friend from high school who was/is very promiscuous and has a history of very poor decisions, with men and in general.

This friend was single and sleeping around (a lot) well into her 30s, then married for about eight years and is now divorced and single again.
Even when she was married, she had terrible boundaries and her husband was either to naïve, stupid or weak to actually enforce what I would consider appropriate marital boundaries.

I had to be very clear with my wife about what the expectations and boundaries were.
I didn’t tell her she couldn’t be friends, but there were limits on their activities together. Which my wife understood and agreed to.

They would get together at one of our houses, another mutual friends house, or occasionally they go out for brunch. They did not go out to bars, clubs, “girls night out” or anything of that nature, because her friend would be constantly soliciting male attention, which is not an appropriate situation for a married woman to be in the middle of.
Basically, our standard boundaries anyway.

She maintained her friendship but in a limited capacity.
Her friend doesn’t really like me of course, because I have boundaries and don’t tolerate my wife behaving like a single woman or participating in situations that are conducive to problems.

So my recommendation would be for you to propose agreed-upon boundaries that would allow you to maintain your friendship in some capacity, but not put yourself in, or allow her to put you in questionable or potentially problematic situations.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah none of that makes sense.

The friend is single and dating. 

Again, that's a bad influence, how??

Married women shouldn't have friends who are single and dating, what??


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Yeah none of that makes sense.
> 
> The friend is single and dating.
> 
> ...


1. I suspect there’s more to the friend’s background and general behavior.
2. Of course married woman can have single friends. But that doesn’t mean their activities together aren’t limited. 
3. And if the single friend is not a friend of the marriage or seeks to undermine or negatively influence marital boundaries, then no more friendship.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Yeah none of that makes sense.
> 
> The friend is single and dating.
> 
> ...


I guarantee there’s more to this story that is not being shared. Why would he put up with her friend for 8 years, marry OP and then give her the ultimatum? Something has happened since they were married is my suspicion.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Were you in a committed relationship with your now husband when you “experimented” with the girl?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

He has given you an ultimatum and moved out. That means he is willing to abandon his children and have them become homeless if he doesn't get his way in this. Your choice is clear. Submit to his will or get a divorce.

Do you have family nearby? Or are you all alone?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

If your best friend was an enabler (or perceived to be one) of you cheating on your (then) boyfriend then I understand where he is coming from and agree with him.

If not I still might agree.
Same thing if you had issues with one of his friends for <whatever reason>.

Spouses should respect their partners above their friends. And partners should not abuse that trust.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm not sure how to answer this. It does seem there are important bits of info missing. How long ago was this encounter with the other woman? Before or after marriage is irrelevant if you were in a committed relationship with your husband at the time, if so, you cheated so it's understandable that he's distrusting of you.

That said, if my husband ordered me to do/not do ANYTHING, well, we're going to have a BIG problem. He's my husband not my Dad. If he came to me and said "I feel very uneasy about X" I would be happy to discuss and compromise, but no way will I be ordered around by my husband.

If his way of handling an issue were to abandon me and the marriage by moving out and telling me "my way or the highway", he'd be told not to let the door hit him on his way out


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frusdil said:


> I'm not sure how to answer this. It does seem there are important bits of info missing. How long ago was this encounter with the other woman? Before or after marriage is irrelevant if you were in a committed relationship with your husband at the time, if so, you cheated so it's understandable that he's distrusting of you.
> 
> That said, if my husband ordered me to do/not do ANYTHING, well, we're going to have a BIG problem. He's my husband not my Dad. If he came to me and said "I feel very uneasy about X" I would be happy to discuss and compromise, but no way will I be ordered around by my husband.
> 
> If his way of handling an issue were to abandon me and the marriage by moving out and telling me "my way or the highway", he'd be told not to let the door hit him on his way out


You man hater you. 😉 😋 🤭 Honestly, I would do the same. Especially if on the way out the door he said, "Good luck paying bills, loser, I hope you can figure out how to feed those children of yours." She's better off without him because soon it will be one of those situation we hear about on here where women aren't allowed to have friends that aren't chosen by the husband and they're not allowed to see them unless they are in the house under the husband's supervision. Having sex with your father is just so gross.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> We have two kids together and I'm just feeling like it's extremely unfair for him to put me in a position to tell my closest friend that we can no longer be friends. He moved all of his things out of our apartment and told me to figure it out (bills) on my own, he's not coming back as long as I continue to be friends with her. Idk what to do.. Do I continue to fight for my marriage or is this an unhealthy response and I should let it go anyways..


 It looks like you have cheated on him with a woman in the past , and that he has partly forgiven you for that ,
HE see this woman as a bad influence, 
What type relationship are you having with this friend that makes him so worried , 

To me this is extreme reaction to walk out and tell you have fun paying the bills 
He is using his children as tools of leverage in his game to get you to bend to his way ,
This said more about him and his wish to be a dad than your relationship with a friend ,

if there is not reason for him to think you and this friend could end up in bed and his actions are coming from you cheating with a woman before , then he has not forgiven you about that and he is hitting out now about that and the best friend is been used because he does not want to be seen as dragging something up from the past , 

I think you need to start thinking of your self as a single mother as this guy if he gets his way now next it will be something else,


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

frusdil said:


> I'm not sure how to answer this. It does seem there are important bits of info missing. How long ago was this encounter with the other woman? Before or after marriage is irrelevant if you were in a committed relationship with your husband at the time, if so, you cheated so it's understandable that he's distrusting of you.
> 
> That said, if my husband ordered me to do/not do ANYTHING, well, we're going to have a BIG problem. He's my husband not my Dad. If he came to me and said "I feel very uneasy about X" I would be happy to discuss and compromise, but no way will I be ordered around by my husband.
> 
> If his way of handling an issue were to abandon me and the marriage by moving out and telling me "my way or the highway", he'd be told not to let the door hit him on his way out


It seems to me there’s a bit missing in the story. Including what preceded her husband leaving.
Was there an incident? Was there one to many instances of inappropriate or undermining influences from the friend?
What if he’s already had this conversation several times with her and there was a “straw that broke the camels back” incident or argument.

You see it as her husband giving her an order. Maybe.
But it could also very well be that her husband accurately sees a negative and destructive influence on his wife/marriage and simply settling a boundary to protect his marriage.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> You see it as her husband giving her an order. Maybe.
> But it could also very well be that her husband accurately sees a negative and destructive influence on his wife/marriage and simply settling a boundary to protect his marriage.


The husband has walked out on his children , this one is going to divorce court the longer she puts it off the worse it is for the kids, 

yes there is more to this than we know , (ALL WAYS IS) 
but he left the home, 
so the day for setting boundaries has long gone ,


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> I think you need to start thinking of your self as a single mother as this guy if he gets his way now next it will be something else,


 Abusive situations don't just suddenly one day start with hitting. They start with manipulation, bullying and cruelly using her children against her. If she goes along with this, it will end with her covering her bruises with makeup. No one wants absolute and unaccountable control over another adult for altruistic reasons.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You and your husband have been together 11 years but only married for one. Which means after almost ten years together you cheated on him by having sex with someone else. You can call it “experimenting” and try and minimise your behaviour because it was a woman who you had sex with but the truth is that you cheated on your partner of ten years. 
You also admit that your friend influenced your cheating and it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
I’m not surprised your husband has left. I am surprised that he married you in the first place. 
I wouldn’t have and most men I know wouldn’t have either.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> He and I have been together for 11yrs but recently married this year. Also, it is a little complicated because before we got married, my curiosity got the best of me and I experimented with a women who just so happens to be a mutual friend of the both of us. I no longer speak with her friend but he feels like my friend influenced the situation to happen and that it wouldn't have happened if my best friend and I didn't know each other.





Andy1001 said:


> You and your husband have been together 11 years but only married for one. Which means after almost ten years together you cheated on him by having sex with someone else. You can call it “experimenting” and try and minimise your behaviour because it was a woman who you had sex with but the truth is that you cheated on your partner of ten years.
> You also admit that your friend influenced your cheating and it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
> I’m not surprised your husband has left. I am surprised that he married you in the first place.
> I wouldn’t have and most men I know wouldn’t have either.


My reading of the above is that the cheating with a woman friend was in the years before she know this new woman who she knows for 8 years


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> My reading of the above is that the cheating with a woman friend was in the years before she know this new woman who she knows for 8 years


She wrote that shortly before she got married she “experimented” with a woman. She’s only been married for a year. She’s been in a relationship with her husband for eleven years.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What’s wrong with a spouse giving an ultimatum when he or she believes something is harming the relationship to the point they believe it’s going to ruin it anyway?
You say “don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out”—— the OP didn’t have to, he’s GONE. Now I believe there’s a lot more to this story, because few leave a marriage with kids over a friend, but the OP basically admits her friend is a lousy person and now that I’ve seen firsthand the influence of toxic friends—-I can see why he’s upset.
If the wife’s friend is that bad—- an ultimatum is the healthy thing I’d say. To just forever ignore all the bad behavior and accept it wouid be the unhealthy thing to do. There is the remote possibility that the guy has just had enough of all the bs. It would be interesting to hear his side of this story.

What I read is that:
OP says the lesbian sexcapade was with the toxic friend’s friend. The SINGLE friend is dating and having sex with multiple guys (none of his business), BUT…….. is OP leaving out pertinent info? Is her friend influencing her to ALSO act like a single woman? Is she encouraging the OP to go out with her to clubs or other locations single people frequent? There’s got to be more to what is going on other than the friend’s character—- it’s how the friendship is affecting the OP’s behavior. Otherwise it sounds like an excuse to take off.

OP, these arguments….. do any of them involve places you’re going with the friend?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> She wrote that shortly before she got married she “experimented” with a woman. She’s only been married for a year. She’s been in a relationship with her husband for eleven years.


Yon might be right I can not see where she said that , but even if it was in the first 3 years or the year before he married her if he married her knowing that she cheated and still married her I suspect he has never gotten over it fully ,
and that he is now shifting the blame to the other woman ,

make little or no difference if he is father to 2 children under no circumstances has he the right to walk out on his kids and say have fun paying all the bills
I don't agree with cheating , cheating is cheating , but if you know before and still stupid enough to go into a marriage
tough sh1t ,

if he did not know before then divorce if you can't get past it and forgive and set boundaries , walking out and using the kids as bullets is never a good thing and will come back to bit him


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> What’s wrong with a spouse giving an ultimatum when he or she believes something is harming the relationship to the point they believe it’s going to ruin it anyway?
> You say “don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out”—— the OP didn’t have to, he’s GONE. Now I believe there’s a lot more to this story, because few leave a marriage with kids over a friend, but the OP basically admits her friend is a lousy person and now that I’ve seen firsthand the influence of toxic friends—-I can see why he’s upset.
> If the wife’s friend is that bad—- an ultimatum is the healthy thing I’d say. To just forever ignore all the bad behavior and accept it wouid be the unhealthy thing to do. There is the remote possibility that the guy has just had enough of all the bs. It would be interesting to hear his side of this story.
> 
> ...


yes i think there is more to this story , she did cheat before ,


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, you cheated on your husband and now he doesn't trust you, despite the fact that he forgave you. Not allowing you to see your friend is probably a bit much, but you don't seem to show any remorse or even understanding of his feelings and actions. I guess it's up to you. If you pick your friend, then obviously she is more important than your husband and your marriage.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

LoveisKind said:


> My feelings is that I'm an adult and I made the decision


Correct. The decision is yours and you chose your friend over your husband and the father of your children. There is a phrase in a lot of weddings that says, "What God has put together, let no man put asunder." That goes for women too. You allowed your friend to come between you and your husband. Your husband is supposed to have first place in your heart and you allowed your friend to have his place. So yes, it was your decision. Now you will live with the consequences.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> You and your husband have been together 11 years but only married for one. Which means after almost ten years together you cheated on him by having sex with someone else. You can call it “experimenting” and try and minimise your behaviour because it was a woman who you had sex with but the truth is that you cheated on your partner of ten years.
> You also admit that your friend influenced your cheating and it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
> I’m not surprised your husband has left. I am surprised that he married you in the first place.
> I wouldn’t have and most men I know wouldn’t have either.


No, she DIDN'T say the friend influenced the cheating with a woman. She did not say that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The husband seems to not like the friend because she is single and dating and is having sex with the men she dates.

Isn't that what A TON of people here did when they were single?

Yes it is.

Why is wrong for a single woman to date and have sex? Oh wait, it's s not.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> The husband seems to not like the friend because she is single and dating and is having sex with the men she dates.
> 
> Isn't that what A TON of people here did when they were single?
> 
> ...


I think the husband doesn't trust the level of influence the friend (potentially) has over the wife.
This could be supported if he believes his then-gf was influenced to cheat by this friend.

Is it valid? who knows. But the husband's perception is all he has to go on.

Nobody is blaming the single friend for being a single friend. And no one can reasonably say that married women can't have single friends. But how the friend behaves and the <perceived> influence over the wife matters.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

So if you have known your husband and your friend both for approximately a decade....why now?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> The husband seems to not like the friend because she is single and dating and is having sex with the men she dates.
> 
> Isn't that what A TON of people here did when they were single?
> 
> ...


Unless the husband has a history of being unreasonable and a history of being controlling and isolating her from OTHER friends and family, then there is more to the story than her simply being single and dating. 

If this friend is a party girl and is regularly bringing the OP out clubbing and hitting the bars with her single friends and bisexual women and horny guys, then the husband’s boundaries are reasonable. 

Let’s switch the roles around, if the husband’s best friend was a single player and a womanizer and ran with a party crowd and got him hooked up with a bisexual friend of his so he could experiment with other dudes and was taking him out clubbing and picking up chicks (and possibly dudes) - would that be appropriate for a married husband and father??

We are the average of the 5 people we spend the most time with. 

If she is running around with a party crowd that are out hooking up with guys and gals and living the single, care free lifestyle, the husband is within his right to set this as a boundary.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I want to reiterate that the general behavior and context of the H is important here.

If he is mean and demanding and controlling and isolating in general and tries to keep her away from family and stable, married friends and is an ass in general,,, Then it’s likely he is just an ass.

But if he is otherwise a decent guy and supports her being in contact with family and other friends and it is just this one friend that he has an issue with - then it is likely this friend’s behavior is more troublesome and inappropriate than what the OP is reporting to us. 

Friends can make or break a marriage. If this is a party girl that is regularly bringing the OP into her single and promiscuous lifestyle, the husband is within his right to enforce this boundary. 

Assuming he is an otherwise decent and reasonable person, the friend’s behavior is probably more of an inappropriate influence than is being reported here.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> No, she DIDN'T say the friend influenced the cheating with a woman. She did not say that.


Yes your correct. I misread the original post.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

If OP doesn’t feel comfortable sharing more of the story, she won’t be back. I believe there is more to this than a husband who just woke up and became controlling one day.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend.


Which is more important to you? It sounds like your husband is firm on his stance, so ball is in your court. 



LoveisKind said:


> Backstory:
> ...He feels that she is a bad influence on me... He and I have been together for 11yrs but recently married this year. Also, it is a little complicated because before we got married, my curiosity got the best of me and I experimented with a women who just so happens to be a mutual friend of the both of us. I no longer speak with her friend but he feels like my friend influenced the situation to happen and that it wouldn't have happened if my best friend and I didn't know each other.


So you cheated on your husband, then boy friend and father of your children. And your BFF has a connection to you AP, I assume she knew about said affair. I wouldn't want you around her either if I were your husband. If she didn't actively try to stop you from having an affair then she isn't a friend of your marriage



LoveisKind said:


> My relationship with my friend has been the start of many many arguments over the past few months because he doesn't want me being around her or really communicating with her. I tried to explain to him that it was my choice to entertain the other women, my best friend can't influence or force me to do anything, my best friend isn't gay and isn't involved with women, she's just friends with a women that is gay and that's how I met her. He feels like I'm just sticking up for her and a real friend wouldn't condone or allow the situation to happen. My feelings is that I'm an adult and I made the decision and even when she did express her discontent with me and her friend sleeping together, I did it anyway. I feel like his anger should be directed more so at me but for some reason, he's taking it out on her to the point that he's telling me now.. to choose.


So she did try to stop you, but it happened anyway. Now your husband sees her as connected to your affair. Right or wrong, that is how he feels and I think it is justified. One of the fallouts of your poor choice to cheat is going to be either the loss of this friend or the loss of your marriage. So once again, the choice is yours to make. 




LoveisKind said:


> We have two kids together and I'm just feeling like it's extremely unfair for him to put me in a position to tell my closest friend that we can no longer be friends. He moved all of his things out of our apartment and told me to figure it out (bills) on my own, he's not coming back as long as I continue to be friends with her. Idk what to do.. Do I continue to fight for my marriage or is this an unhealthy response and I should let it go anyways..


You were extremely unfair and worse when you cheated on the father of your children. You only have yourself to blame for this situation IMO.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm seeing comments as to there has to be more to this story for him to react so strongly. But basically, is all there in her OP, she cheated on her husband, shortly before getting married with another woman she met through her best friend, and by association, and probably more to the story with her friend, the husband has put as a condition for the marriage to continue that the best friend must be gone. That's the gist of it. Now, is the demand too much? in her view, yes so there goes the marriage. Nothing more to do here. She wants to continue with the friendship, her husband doesn't, so divorce it is.

The issue with her "I experimented" with this other woman before getting married, is a Freudian slip of the tongue where OP is basically washing her hands to the homosexual act with another woman as more than nothing. I was just experimenting, so my husband shouldn't be so upset about it now. Even the tittle of her post is misleading "Newly Wed". She may be newly wed, but this is a long term relationship of 11 years. What OP doesn't want to understand is that for the husband, anything associated with her betrayal is a trigger that he can't let pass anymore. I partially blame him, because to begin with, after finding out that she betrayed him with another woman, he married her nonetheless.

Bottom line here, Op must decide if her marriage and family is worth more than her friendship. So far she's showing that the friendship is more important.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

LoveisKind said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend.
> 
> ...


It seems there is more to this story than you have posted for your husband to be this drastic in his actions. Is there more to this you have selectively omitted?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

We’ll see if she comes back. 

A lot of people are looking more for, “you go girl!” And, “you do you!” And “ oh you poor thing. He should be nicer to you because you’re so fabulous and you deserve to have it all!”

People often don’t want to be held accountable or to have any ramifications of their actions or to be told that other people can have reasonable boundaries that may have restrictions on what they want to do.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

I’ve read the responses and wanted to thank everyone for their input.

The situation with the other women was the first time we’ve experienced infidelity on my part. My husband has had situations in the past but we agreed to wipe the slate clean and focus on eachother when we got married. To make it easier to explain, I’ll give them pet names. My bestfriends name is Winnie and the women I had an affair with is Alice. Winnie and Alice have been friends since high school but Alice lived out of state. She moved back about 2yrs ago and Winnie introduced us. We all hang out together for almost a year before the affair happened, which was about two months before we got married.

I confessed to the affair 2 days after it happened and we decided to move past it and proceeded to get married. His words were that he’s done things he regretted in the past and he didn’t want to dwell on it. He even told me he didn’t mind me continuing to be friends with Alice as long as it just didn’t happen again. I honestly don’t have the desire to be with women so I felt pretty confident that it wouldn’t.
However, over time, it started to bother him more and more. After after we got married, he said he didn’t want me hanging out with Alice or speaking to her and I agreed to it and stopped communicating. I didn’t really care bc although she’s a nice person and someone I had started to call a friend, I don’t care about severing ties with her if it makes him uncomfortable.
The straw that broke the camels back was recently when my sister had a birthday party. I invited my friend Winnie and we went together. I ended up drinking too much and fell asleep at my sisters house. He came and got me the next morning bc I wasn’t feeling well. When she saw that Winnie was there, he started wondering if Alice was also invited. I told him she wasn’t. He still seemed upset and it just got worse and worse over the week until finally he said I’m his wife and he doesn’t like the fact that I have single friends. He said if my friend was married, she would have made sure I got home and not been okay with sleeping at my sisters but she doesn’t bc she has the mentality of a single person. There hasn’t been any other issues or anything in the past. It’s the infidelity and the fact that my bestfriend introduced us. He feels betrayed by my bestfriend. Winnie did not encourage what happened with me and Alice. She actually advised me against it but unfortunately, I didn’t listen and I allowed it to happen. I’m just not sure where to really go from here.. His ultimatum is really bothering me bc we can still achieve whatever it is that he’s hoping to achieve whether I’m friends with her or not. If I cut her off, it won’t change what our issues are.
We’ve stopped dating, stopped engaging eachother. I told him the focus should be there.. not just me cutting people out my life bc when I do that and I’m still being ignored by him.. who will I have?


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> We’ll see if she comes back.
> 
> A lot of people are looking more for, “you go girl!” And, “you do you!” And “ oh you poor thing. He should be nicer to you because you’re so fabulous and you deserve to have it all!”
> 
> People often don’t want to be held accountable or to have any ramifications of their actions or to be told that other people can have reasonable boundaries that may have restrictions on what they want to do.


that’s not the case, I appreciate everyone’s comments.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> It seems there is more to this story than you have posted for your husband to be this drastic in his actions. Is there more to this you have selectively omitted?


I was trying to keep it as short as I could but still provide overall picture, I see I failed :/
I posted more details below.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> I'm seeing comments as to there has to be more to this story for him to react so strongly. But basically, is all there in her OP, she cheated on her husband, shortly before getting married with another woman she met through her best friend, and by association, and probably more to the story with her friend, the husband has put as a condition for the marriage to continue that the best friend must be gone. That's the gist of it. Now, is the demand too much? in her view, yes so there goes the marriage. Nothing more to do here. She wants to continue with the friendship, her husband doesn't, so divorce it is.
> 
> The issue with her "I experimented" with this other woman before getting married, is a Freudian slip of the tongue where OP is basically washing her hands to the homosexual act with another woman as more than nothing. I was just experimenting, so my husband shouldn't be so upset about it now. Even the tittle of her post is misleading "Newly Wed". She may be newly wed, but this is a long term relationship of 11 years. What OP doesn't want to understand is that for the husband, anything associated with her betrayal is a trigger that he can't let pass anymore. I partially blame him, because to begin with, after finding out that she betrayed him with another woman, he married her nonetheless.
> 
> Bottom line here, Op must decide if her marriage and family is worth more than her friendship. So far she's showing that the friendship is more important.


I did post additional details below so I guess I could say, “there’s more” but really, there isn’t. The straw that broke the camels back had nothing to do with my friend but he blames her anyways so the storyline is the same. And I titled it newly wed bc..we are. We haven’t been married for 90 days yet and I have an older cousin that told me sometimes men change when they get married and can become controlling in the beginning so I titled it that way with the intent of either getting the attention of people in similiar situations (as far as being in a new marriage and experiencing a struggle with possible controlling behavior from a spouse) or people would see it and remember that stage in their relationship where they might have also experienced that as well. That’s all..


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

So, if I understand this correctly, when you are around Winnie, bad things have happened within the last year or so. You had an A with a friend she introduced you to, and now you are passing out drunk and she’s not helping you. I see your husbands point. Winnie is bad news for you and your marriage.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Which is more important to you? It sounds like your husband is firm on his stance, so ball is in your court.


I understand that.. just feels so manipulative and unfair. I would never do that to him. We’ve experienced infidelity in the past and I dealt with him on it. I didn’t blame his friends or his family that knew about it and say he can’t speak to his mom or his sister or his best friend anymore because they “condoned” it. That’s just crazy to me 😞



BigDaddyNY said:


> One of the fallouts of your poor choice to cheat is going to be either the loss of this friend or the loss of your marriage. So once again, the choice is yours to make.


Makes sense when you say it that way, thank you for your comment.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> I did post additional details below so I guess I could say, “there’s more” but really, there isn’t. The straw that broke the camels back had nothing to do with my friend but he blames her anyways so the storyline is the same. And I titled it newly wed bc..we are. We haven’t been married for 90 days yet and I have an older cousin that told me sometimes men change when they get married and can become controlling in the beginning so I titled it that way with the intent of either getting the attention of people in similiar situations (as far as being in a new marriage and experiencing a struggle with possible controlling behavior from a spouse) or people would see it and remember that stage in their relationship where they might have also experienced that as well. That’s all..


I’ve heard that about men and women, that once the ink is dry on the license they change. It always seems that they change into controlling and bossy people. It’s a shame.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, when you are around Winnie, bad things have happened within the last year or so. You had an A with a friend she introduced you to, and now you are passing out drunk and she’s not helping you. I see your husbands point. Winnie is bad news for you and your marriage.


Idk, maybe because I’m involved, it’s hard for me to see it but who said she didn’t help me? She was actually the one taking care of me at my sisters house. Giving me Tylenol and making us food.. But, I’m at my sisters house, not a strangers house party. So, if I tell her I don’t feel good and I want to stay there.. in the same guest room that I’d normally stay in on a regular day if I’m sleeping over… why would she think to say, “No, you’re going home.” I’m so confused. I’m literally with my family and honestly if I were her, I would’ve been like, “okay” too. I’m honestly confused bc I feel I’m the only one who doesn’t see the problem but I’m thankful for the responses so I can view it from another angle. I really am trying …


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> It seems there is more to this story than you have posted for your husband to be this drastic in his actions. Is there more to this you have selectively omitted?


I did post more details, thank you


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’ve heard that about men and women, that once the ink is dry on the license they change. It always seems that they change into controlling and bossy people. It’s a shame.


My cousin was the first person to tell me this.. I’m hopeful it’s something we can just resolve..


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’ve been with your husband as long as you’ve known your friend. Many years now. My guess is your husband doesn’t trust your friend, and doesn’t trust you. He knew what he was getting into. Something must have happened more to this story. He must have more of a reason, now suddenly, to give you the ultimatum.


I did post additional details to elaborate further, thank you for your response. I didn’t feel it was important but maybe so.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Concerned about what?
> 
> The friend is a single woman, who dates.
> 
> Now single woman who date should be discriminated against and married women shouldn't be friends twith them? Spare me.


That’s what I said… so when she eventually becomes someone’s wife, am I then to reach out and say, “hey girl, we can be friends again”.. what’s that?.. it makes no sense to me 😞


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LoveisKind said:


> I did post additional details below so I guess I could say, “there’s more” but really, there isn’t. The straw that broke the camels back had nothing to do with my friend but he blames her anyways so the storyline is the same. And I titled it newly wed bc..we are. We haven’t been married for 90 days yet and I have an older cousin that told me sometimes men change when they get married and can become controlling in the beginning so I titled it that way with the intent of either getting the attention of people in similiar situations (as far as being in a new marriage and experiencing a struggle with possible controlling behavior from a spouse) or people would see it and remember that stage in their relationship where they might have also experienced that as well. That’s all..


Unless your husband is actively trying to isolate you from other friends and family, then he’s not being controlling.
He’s trying to protect his marriage because he sees your friend as a negative influence on you and your marriage, and there’s a history of bad things happening around this friend.

Do you still go out with her (aside from your sisters house) drinking or hanging out in areas were single people go to act single?

If he has any concern around that, you can offer a compromise where are you don’t cut her out of your life entirely, but you do significantly limit where you go and what you do together, to ensure that you won’t find yourself in a potentially inappropriate situation.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

manfromlamancha said:


> I understand where your husband is coming from. I have personally witnessed the effects of friends on wives to the extent that the wives strayed as a result (eventually). However, your husband's way of handling this sounds a bit extreme and irresponsible since you have two kids and he has left you to fend for yourself with them financially?


He knows he’s not putting us in any real distress. I have the means to support myself and our children but it’s the principle. I feel it’s just a control tactic or manipulation possibly .. just doesn’t feel good.
But, I don’t feel anyone can make me or influence me to do what I don’t want to do..


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Unless your husband is actively trying to isolate you from other friends and family, then he’s not being controlling.
> He’s trying to protect his marriage because he sees your friend as a negative influence on you and your marriage, and there’s a history of bad things happening around this friend.
> 
> Do you still go out with her (aside from your sisters house) drinking or hanging out in areas were single people go to act single?
> ...


that’s what I agreed to do but he says he doesn’t want me talking to her at all.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. Your husband is protecting his marriage, and he is correct to do so. If he feels your friend is a bad influence on you/your marriage, he is right to set boundaries that would limit that exposure.
> That said, there’s a difference between being friends with someone and hanging out with them in questionable or potentially problematic scenarios.
> 
> I have dealt with this exact scenario in my own marriage (minus the lesbian encounters) so I’ll share my thoughts an experience.


Thank you!! 



DudeInProgress said:


> So my recommendation would be for you to propose agreed-upon boundaries that would allow you to maintain your friendship in some capacity, but not put yourself in, or allow her to put you in questionable or potentially problematic situations.


Here's the thing, if that were the case, I would be 100% okay with his "uncomfortableness". I'd get it. But I have to stop being friends with my closest friend because of feelings or suspicions that he's having that aren't even true. If I were your wife, I could have said to my friend these words and the issue would be resolved. "I feel like when we go out, you push guys up on me and it makes me feel uncomfortable bc I'm married and don't want to give out the wrong impression". I'm 100% positive that my best friend would apologize and never do that to me again. In my situation, I have nothing to say to her. There's no action of hers that I need to correct. "please don't introduce me to anymore of your gay female friends because I may sleep with them". Or, "please, don't allow me to fall asleep at my family members house when I'm not feeling well and don't want to drive".. I'm so confused and sad because ultimately, I know I will have to end my friendship with her to keep my family and I'm just so angry and hurt about it. I was hoping others could relate but apparently it's me and I just have a lot of growing up to do in this adult life.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. I suspect there’s more to the friend’s background and general behavior.
> 2. Of course married woman can have single friends. But that doesn’t mean their activities together aren’t limited.
> 3. And if the single friend is not a friend of the marriage or seeks to undermine or negatively influence marital boundaries, then no more friendship.


Well, I didn't go into detail about her personal life so there's a lot more to her personal story but nothing that also would involve me. She's single and she dates. She was with a guy for about 3 years but they broke up almost a year ago. I feel she's still recovering and just living her life. She did go through a moment where she became a little promiscuous right after the break up. To the point where I even had a conversation with her that I was concerned she was making choices she'd regret later but she got it together rather quickly after this talk. This was the time frame that I confided in my fiancé and told him my concerns etc. etc. He was the one that encouraged me to talk to her but in his mind, I see he just labeled her and wrote her off apparently.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> I guarantee there’s more to this story that is not being shared. Why would he put up with her friend for 8 years, marry OP and then give her the ultimatum? Something has happened since they were married is my suspicion.


It's the affair with the women that happened. He feels like my friend either influenced it or condoned it. Nothing additional has happened since we've been married.. which is what made me wonder if what my cousin said was true regarding controlling behavior/marriage etc.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

Tobyboy said:


> Were you in a committed relationship with your now husband when you “experimented” with the girl?


I was.. we were engaged


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He has given you an ultimatum and moved out. That means he is willing to abandon his children and have them become homeless if he doesn't get his way in this. Your choice is clear. Submit to his will or get a divorce.
> 
> Do you have family nearby? Or are you all alone?


I do have family near by.. and I'm started to realize that. Thank you for the response!


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> If your best friend was an enabler (or perceived to be one) of you cheating on your (then) boyfriend then I understand where he is coming from and agree with him.
> 
> If not I still might agree.
> Same thing if you had issues with one of his friends for <whatever reason>.
> ...


I take my friendships seriously because my two bestfriends are literally like sisters to me. We know our families etc. etc. but I also take my marriage seriously as well, and he is also a best friend. I'm just hurt that I will ultimately have to end my friendship. And it's even harder because my only other bestfriend lives out of state. We've been friends since high school and she's the one that introduced us. Once she left the state, we formed our own individual friendship. Before that, it was always the three of us. When she comes in town, it's the three of us again..so that will be awkward going forward. But my main point is that if I had issues with his friends, I'd never tell him he can't be friends with them anymore UNLESS they truly crossed a line. His friends have known he's been unfaithful in the past. I can't accuse them of condoning or influencing it because he made those decisions, not them. I just feel life is so short.. if something serious or fatal were to happen to his friend and he cut them off on the strength of me being "uncomfortable", I know he'd resent me.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> I'm not sure how to answer this. It does seem there are important bits of info missing. How long ago was this encounter with the other woman? Before or after marriage is irrelevant if you were in a committed relationship with your husband at the time, if so, you cheated so it's understandable that he's distrusting of you.
> 
> That said, if my husband ordered me to do/not do ANYTHING, well, we're going to have a BIG problem. He's my husband not my Dad. If he came to me and said "I feel very uneasy about X" I would be happy to discuss and compromise, but no way will I be ordered around by my husband.
> 
> If his way of handling an issue were to abandon me and the marriage by moving out and telling me "my way or the highway", he'd be told not to let the door hit him on his way out


That was my initial reaction but now I'm starting to have a change of heart and just want to fix things. Trying to begin accepting the fact that I will have to end my friendship to keep us together. I do feel like I'm going to resent him heavily afterwards but... 🤷‍♀️


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> It looks like you have cheated on him with a woman in the past , and that he has partly forgiven you for that ,
> HE see this woman as a bad influence,
> What type relationship are you having with this friend that makes him so worried ,
> 
> ...


Yea, I don't believe he feels we'll sleep together. That's not even a concern..at all. I use to complain A LOT about us getting out the house and doing xyz together but since COVID, he's transitioned to more of a home body. He doesnt like going outside the house like that anymore at all. I ask him if he wants to do something and when he tells me no, I ask her and she'll usually go with me. Before our other friend moved, I'd invite them both and we'd all hang together. Whether that's the movies or out to eat or whatever. But, I think he feels like if he eliminate my options, I'll just become content with being home and not doing anything... like how I dealt with COVID. But I explained to him that I dealt with COVID, was pregnant right after COVID with our daughter.. my daughter is just at the age where she's sleeping more and I can start resting and having more energy and I don't want to sit around every day. I want to get out the house sometimes. I want to go out with him and together with friends and date like we use to and have fun together. We were in marriage counseling and she told me to invite him and go anyways if he doesn't want to.. that's what I've been doing but I feel it's just causing more of a divide. Now he's angry at my friend for going with me and she's become the problem and the situation with the infidelity just made it worse. It gave him a reason to tell me to cut her off


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> I take my friendships seriously because my two bestfriends are literally like sisters to me. We know our families etc. etc. but I also take my marriage seriously as well, and he is also a best friend. I'm just hurt that I will ultimately have to end my friendship. And it's even harder because my only other bestfriend lives out of state. We've been friends since high school and she's the one that introduced us. Once she left the state, we formed our own individual friendship. Before that, it was always the three of us. When she comes in town, it's the three of us again..so that will be awkward going forward. But my main point is that if I had issues with his friends, I'd never tell him he can't be friends with them anymore UNLESS they truly crossed a line. His friends have known he's been unfaithful in the past. I can't accuse them of condoning or influencing it because he made those decisions, not them. I just feel life is so short.. if something serious or fatal were to happen to his friend and he cut them off on the strength of me being "uncomfortable", I know he'd resent me.


The thing is this “_UNLESS they truly crossed a line._” is subjective. Your husband‘s line is different than yours. After 10 years you didn’t know that?

You will have that choice to make. Friends or hubby. That’s what infidelity does to people.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

LoveisKind said:


> That was my initial reaction but now I'm starting to have a change of heart and just want to fix things. Trying to begin accepting the fact that I will have to end my friendship to keep us together. I do feel like I'm going to resent him heavily afterwards but... 🤷‍♀️


Then actively propose something that you won’t resent.
-Tell him that you respect his boundaries and judgment, and that you understand why he feels the way he does. 
Tell him that you will always choose him and your marriage/family over anything else. 
-Tell him that you are willing to limit your contact and activities with her to boundaries that he can be comfortable with, but you’re not comfortable cutting her out of your life completely. 
-Tell him you don’t want to resent him later, so you want to find a solution that respects his concerns but not cut her out completely - and then propose the limitations and minimum level of engagement with her that you can live with. i’d recommend reducing the contact significantly and eliminating anything involving drinking, partying, bars, trips, etc.

See what happens.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think you need to understand that your husband gave you a huge amount of grace and leeway in not breaking up with you when you had the affair. 

Your lucky to be married and to be together at all now.

Compared to the fact that he would have been perfectly within his right to dump you when you were having a homosexual affair, this is actually being pretty lenient on his part.

And now you’re going out partying with single people, getting skunk drunk and not coming home at night.

How much more grace and leeway do you think he is going to give?????

How many more mulligans do you think you’re going to get?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> That was my initial reaction but now I'm starting to have a change of heart and just want to fix things. Trying to begin accepting the fact that I will have to end my friendship to keep us together. I do feel like I'm going to resent him heavily afterwards but... 🤷‍♀️


I think he just swept your affair under the rug and didn't fully process how much it really impacted him until now. It can take years to fully process the impact something like that has on you. I think the fact that it was a homosexual affair could make it even worse. Now he is thinking he can't even trust women around you. You may very well resent him, but you have to keep in mind it was your actions that brought this on. I realize it seems he committed some sort of infidelity in the past and you're passed that, but that is you and this is him.

If you truly think your resentment will sour the marriage you might as well give it up now. The reality could be that your marriage really ended before it began when you had the affair. It has just been dying a slow death.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I think you need to understand that your husband gave you a huge amount of grace and leeway in not breaking up with you when you had the affair.
> 
> Your lucky to be married and to be together at all now.
> 
> ...


She was at her sister's house, not "going out partying with single people". She drank too much so she slept over at her sister's house.

It's like you didn't even read what OP wrote.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> The reality could be that your marriage really ended before it began when you had the affair. It has just been dying a slow death.


I read your extra details and they help in giving a better response. Having said that, unfortunately, I think that @BigDaddyNY above assessment could be correct. 

Your situation is very difficult because whichever way you go the negative consequences into the future are a given. You concede, you'll grow too resentful for the health of the marriage in the long run. You don't concede, and the marriage most likely is over. 

The distrust that he has been harboring since the affair with the female, apparently just resurfaced with your latest act by getting so wasted that your friend had to stay taking care of you at your sister house. What he's doing is is mental plays by association. 

Since, he associates everything that is negative behavior with you and your friend, then what ultimately was always there in his mind has finally come to the forefront. This is a difficult situation because, obviously trust is gone.

I wonder if marriage counseling has been discussed, or if either of you are willing to get professional help with a counselor that specializes in infidelity. That could help, but care must be taken because there are some bad counselors out there that it could be very detrimental for the relationship if one of you were to experience being gang up. 

That's the only option I see that could help to find a middle ground to move forward in the relationship.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP has your husband cheated on you in the past? Some things you wrote kind of made it sound like he has.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ah I see the post. Yes, your husband cheated on you in the past.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

LoveisKind said:


> It's the affair with the women that happened. He feels like my friend either influenced it or condoned it. Nothing additional has happened since we've been married.. which is what made me wonder if what my cousin said was true regarding controlling behavior/marriage etc.


I hate to tell you, but you THINK you both have moved past your cheating (rug swept), but HE clearly has not and it still weighs very heavily on him. The friend is a constant trigger for him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LoveisKind said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend.
> 
> ...


One of the first things an abusive spouse does is try to isolate you from your friends. Don't ever let anyone run your friends off. Does he not think you have a brain big enough to decide if this is a good person for you to be friends with or not? It's insulting that he thinks he knows better than you do when you are the one who knows her. Set your foot down. Assure him you will not be going out carousing with her.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> Yea, I don't believe he feels we'll sleep together. That's not even a concern..at all. I use to complain A LOT about us getting out the house and doing xyz together but since COVID, he's transitioned to more of a home body. He doesnt like going outside the house like that anymore at all. I ask him if he wants to do something and when he tells me no, I ask her and she'll usually go with me. Before our other friend moved, I'd invite them both and we'd all hang together. Whether that's the movies or out to eat or whatever. But, I think he feels like if he eliminate my options, I'll just become content with being home and not doing anything... like how I dealt with COVID. But I explained to him that I dealt with COVID, was pregnant right after COVID with our daughter.. my daughter is just at the age where she's sleeping more and I can start resting and having more energy and I don't want to sit around every day. I want to get out the house sometimes. I want to go out with him and together with friends and date like we use to and have fun together. We were in marriage counseling and she told me to invite him and go anyways if he doesn't want to.. that's what I've been doing but I feel it's just causing more of a divide. Now he's angry at my friend for going with me and she's become the problem and the situation with the infidelity just made it worse. It gave him a reason to tell me to cut her off


 I think you summed it up well here , I read all the posts and I feel he has a very different idea of marred life to you ,
he wants the married life that we see in Hollywood movies , you want married life more in the FRIENDS series , 
At first I was going to ask why he did not go to your sisters but this is why , he wants to cut off the outside world ,

he has not fully dealt with your cheating , because he has cheated more than you and he moved the time of dealing with it along because he was partly guilty for his own cheating , a big side to him is " do as I say and not as I do " and because he was not married at the time he did not feel the same power he thinks he holds now , it is a form of power struggle, 

now you seem to be at the stage of that you are willing to give up one for the other , and I don't think it is the right thing to do ,
If I was your friend I would say to you to find a middle ground to move forward in the relationship. but tell him what you told us that you friendship has nothing to do with anything that is going on and your friend is not any more important to you than him , and even though she is not as important to you as he is that asking you to give her up and cut her off for not reason is wrong ,

NOW there is two other points I want to make you all most don't mention his cheating ,so much so many of the other posters skipped over it and here we in 90% of the cases we gut the cheater , so much so some of us can't ever see any good in a cheater ever no matter if they became Mother Therese, in the past it hurt you I think it is still hurting you 

BUT THE bigger and second point I wish to make is his mother and sister they don't want you if they did they wooould have been more on your side when he cheated , they see you as a party girl and they are willing to except his bad and childish ways , 

last POINT THINK ABOUT changing your marriage counselor , get professional help with a counselor that specializes in infidelity. That could help, but care must be taken because there are some bad counselors out there that it could be very detrimental for the relationship if one of you were to experience being gang up. 

YOU are taking the same risk with a counselor as you are on joining this forum , I think we have out of not knowing the full facts have pushed people to split up with their partner because we see things often through the eyes of our relationship and we all carries a chip of some type


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

With the new info now available, I would say that your husband's being unreasonable. There is the other side of the coin too: why would you want to stay married to a man like this? I wouldn't.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> She was at her sister's house, not "going out partying with single people". She drank too much so she slept over at her sister's house.
> 
> It's like you didn't even read what OP wrote.


You’re using logic from the OP’s perspective.

I’m looking at it from a visceral reaction from the H’s perspective.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I guarantee there’s more to this story that is not being shared. Why would he put up with her friend for 8 years, marry OP and then give her the ultimatum? Something has happened since they were married is my suspicion.


Because they have only been married for less than a year?

This starts off with him saying "Well, dear wife, I don't think you should hang out with your friend, now."

Then what happens? "Well, dear wife, I don't think you should wear your hair like that."

Then "Hmm. I don't want you using social media, now."

"Then "That clothing isn't appropriate. From now on, I get to select your clothing."

And so on and so forth until things get nasty.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> Because they have only been married for less than a year?
> 
> This starts off with him saying "Well, dear wife, I don't think you should hang out with your friend, now."
> 
> ...


This is what I fear would happen in the long run too. Whatever the source, be it the infidelity or just his personality, maybe both, I doubt his demands will stop with just this one friends. I could be totally wrong and it could just be all about this friend, but that seems less likely.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> Because they have only been married for less than a year?
> 
> This starts off with him saying "Well, dear wife, I don't think you should hang out with your friend, now."
> 
> ...


I get that and he could be controlling. However, he put up with her friend for 8 years and in the last two years, she seems to be changing. Introduced OP to her AP, sleeping with men all over town. The husband sees her as a threat to his M. The friend sounds very immature.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> You’re using logic from the OP’s perspective.
> 
> I’m looking at it from a visceral reaction from the H’s perspective.


Extreme visceral reactions from him do not a good marriage make.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I get that and he could be controlling. However, he put up with her friend for 8 years and in the last two years, she seems to be changing. Introduced OP to her AP, sleeping with men all over town. The husband sees her as a threat to his M. The friend sounds very immature.


I knew someone who got married after living together for many years. 

His sudden use of control techniques and violence was an utter shock.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Livvie said:


> Yeah none of that makes sense.
> 
> The friend is single and dating.
> 
> ...


She cheated on him with another woman, and this friend enabled it.

If that isn't a bad influence, I don't know what is.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> She cheated on him with another woman, and this friend enabled it.
> 
> If that isn't a bad influence, I don't know what is.


Is introducing someone to a friend equivalent to enabling an affair?


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> Is introducing someone to a friend equivalent to enabling an affair?


From the point of view of the betrayed? I'd say yes.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Let me see if I understand: 

You & your now husband have been in each others lives for 11 years.​​You & this BFF have been friends for 8 years.​​You overshared & gossiped about BFF to husband who has now concluded that she's inappropriately promiscuous & a bad influence on you.​​Before you married, after you had kids with DH, you had a same sex affair with another woman who is a mutual friend with BFF.​​DH wants you to cut ties with BFF after your sister's birthday when you went out with sister, & BFF then proceeded to get drunk & spent the night at your sister's house. DH's reasoning is that your BFF thinks like a single person, whereas a married friend would have gotten you home.​
IMO a lot of this could have been avoided. DH should have gone out with you for sister's birthday. At a minimum because there was drinking, DH should have made arrangements to be your sober ride home instead of leaving it to you & your inebriated cohorts to figure out transportation after you had all been drinking. 

DH may be insecure or jealous you have given him few reasons to be trusting. Your behavior needs to be reassuring. Spend more time with him & less time with BFF. I don't think you have to give her up entirely but he needs to be #1 in your life. Show him that. Give him reasons to trust & things should improve.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> From the point of view of the betrayed? I'd say yes.


The OP said she just introduced them and wasn't in any way instrumental in the affair. It's crazy of the husband to blame the best friend for the affair!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

D0nnivain said:


> Let me see if I understand:
> 
> You & your now husband have been in each others lives for 11 years.​​You & this BFF have been friends for 8 years.​​You overshared & gossiped about BFF to husband who has now concluded that she's inappropriately promiscuous & a bad influence on you.​​Before you married, after you had kids with DH, you had a same sex affair with another woman who is a mutual friend with BFF.​​DH wants you to cut ties with BFF after your sister's birthday when you went out with sister, & BFF then proceeded to get drunk & spent the night at your sister's house. DH's reasoning is that your BFF thinks like a single person, whereas a married friend would have gotten you home.​
> IMO a lot of this could have been avoided. DH should have gone out with you for sister's birthday. At a minimum because there was drinking, DH should have made arrangements to be your sober ride home instead of leaving it to you & your inebriated cohorts to figure out transportation after you had all been drinking.
> ...


Sorry, but the husband's behaviour reeks of double standards.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Extreme visceral reactions from him do not a good marriage make.


But cheating and being out all night partying with singles DO make a good marriage?? 

you have to look at it as a whole. 

No matter how you water down and church up the verbiage, she ran around with her single party buddies and cheated with another woman which was facilitated at least in part by this “Winnie.” 

He would have been in his right to have called off the wedding and dumped her at that point.

He has already shown grace and leniency in staying together and going through with the wedding.

And now a few months after being given a Mulligan, she is out partying all night drunk with the same crowd. 

As I said in an earlier post, reverse the genders. What would you have a mother of young children do if her H was running around with a single party guy that was a player who had set him up with some dude for a gay experience (or even another chick for that matter) and now within months the H is out partying all night and not coming home with that crowd?

Are you going to say that was OK? 

I do not believe you would.

I think you are being overly sensitive that people are judging this “Winnie” because she is single.

That is not the case. There’s nothing wrong with her being single and dating. 

The issue here is the OP has a history of infidelity and inappropriate drunken behavior and being out all night partying with singles.

Would you approve of a husband and father engaging in those activities?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> He has already shown grace and leniency in staying together and going through with the wedding.


How gracious... after he cheated himself!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

They’ve been married a year, party individually with single, promiscuous friends and have affairs. Oh, by they way, they are parents also. IMO, these two shouldn’t have gotten married.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> I knew someone who got married after living together for many years.
> 
> His sudden use of control techniques and violence was an utter shock.


Abusers play the long game. 🥺


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> She cheated on him with another woman, and this friend enabled it.
> 
> If that isn't a bad influence, I don't know what is.


Friend DID NOT enable it, aside from knowing the other party. 

Which is in no way shape or form ENABLING IT.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> But cheating and being out all night partying with singles DO make a good marriage??
> 
> you have to look at it as a whole.
> 
> ...


Um. What part is the sister's party di your not understand?

OP drank too much at her sister's house so stayed the night, at her sister's house. 

At her sister's house. 

So since a single woman friend (who has sex with the men she dates) _was in attendance_ it's suddenly termed "out at night partying with singles"?

Say what??

I used to think you were a reasonable poster who gave good advice. My opinion of you has changed drastically changed if your term drinking at her sister's house and sleeping over in the guest bedroom "out all night partying with singles" just because a single friend was there - who, per OP, was taking cares of her making her food, etc.. 

These responses are starting to sound like a witch hunt against a single woman friend. Blaming her as a scapegoat for nothing she did wrong.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I used to think you were a reasonable poster who gave good advice. My opinion of you has changed drastically changed if your term drinking at her sister's house and sleeping over in the guest bedroom "out all night partying with singles" just because a single friend was there - who, per OP, was taking cares of her making her food, etc..
> 
> These responses are starting to sound like a witch hunt against a single woman friend. Blaming her as a scapegoat for nothing she did wrong.


I think Oldshirt just skimmed the thread...


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Um. What part is the sister's party di your not understand?
> 
> OP drank too much at her sister's house so stayed the night, at her sister's house.
> 
> ...


It does seem as though bad things have been happening recently involving this friend 🤷‍♂️. But OP needs to take accountability for her own actions. Maybe they should’ve waiting to get married. Together 11 years, why then get married after the A? Doesn’t make since.

You seem a little triggered. Was you ex controlling?If so, I’m sorry you had to got through that. ☹


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Friend DID NOT enable it, aside from knowing the other party.
> 
> Which is in no way shape or form ENABLING IT.


I'm sure this is what OP told DH too.
But he's <apparently> not buying it.

Neither am I.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Livvie said:


> Friend DID NOT enable it, aside from knowing the other party.
> 
> Which is in no way shape or form ENABLING IT.


Not from the cheater's point of view maybe. But from the betrayed's view, she did.

What is it TAM says about the cheater's responsibility in reconciliation?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

LoveisKind said:


> Idk, maybe because I’m involved, it’s hard for me to see it but who said she didn’t help me? She was actually the one taking care of me at my sisters house. Giving me Tylenol and making us food.. But, I’m at my sisters house, not a strangers house party. So, if I tell her I don’t feel good and I want to stay there.. in the same guest room that I’d normally stay in on a regular day if I’m sleeping over… why would she think to say, “No, you’re going home.” I’m so confused. I’m literally with my family and honestly if I were her, I would’ve been like, “okay” too. I’m honestly confused bc I feel I’m the only one who doesn’t see the problem but I’m thankful for the responses so I can view it from another angle. I really am trying …


Ok, so just FYI when you are married and have a girls night or whatever...you should be coming home at night. To your home. The one you share with your husband.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> What is it TAM says about the cheater's responsibility in reconciliation?


He cheated too... he is the only one demanding stuff...


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Um. What part is the sister's party di your not understand?
> 
> OP drank too much at her sister's house so stayed the night, at her sister's house.
> 
> ...


That’s how I feel ….


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> if your term drinking at her sister's house and sleeping over in the guest bedroom "out all night partying with singles" just because a single friend was there
> 
> These responses are starting to sound like a witch hunt against a single woman friend. Blaming her as a scapegoat for nothing she did wrong.


This is kind of my point. 

You are seeing it as a witch hunt because the friend is single. 

It is not. 

I’m not even saying that the friend necessarily did anything wrong. 

I am looking at it from the H’s perspective based on the facts of the case. 

Did the OP cheat on her H in the weeks leading up to their wedding? Yes or no? 

In the months following the affair, did she or did she not go to a party tying one on and not coming home that night involving some of the same people!person? Yes or no?

What is the H to think?

This probably isn’t really about the friend specifically as much as it is the H finally asserting some boundaries and expectations on OP’s behavior. 

How much if any role Winnie played in the OP’s conduct is up to God to sort out and judge. 

From the H’s perspective, who always seems to be there when bad things happen?

And we all need to realize we do not have official transcripts of what has been said between the OP and her H. 

He may be directing this specifically towards this one friend.

But he may have also made it a little more general about her partying and running around with that crowd and she more concerned about how that effects her relationship with Winnie specifically. 

But either way, it’s not about Winnie being single. It’s about her consistently being present when these events have occurred.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

uwe.blab said:


> Ok, so just FYI when you are married and have a girls night or whatever...you should be coming home at night. To your home. The one you share with your husband.


That part, I understand and I also agree. I just don’t understand how my friend is to blame for that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LoveisKind said:


> That’s how I feel ….


But is that how your husband feels?


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> He cheated too... he is the only one demanding stuff...


He has every right to. Just as she had when the roles were reversed years ago. That she didn't demand changes to reconcile has no bearing on what he needs to reconcile this time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> That was my initial reaction but now I'm starting to have a change of heart and just want to fix things. Trying to begin accepting the fact that I will have to end my friendship to keep us together. I do feel like I'm going to resent him heavily afterwards but... 🤷‍♀️


Just wait. It won't stop with this. If he's picking your friends, next he picks your clothes, your makeup, he's monitoring your phone, you've got location trackers in your car and on your phone so he knows where you are 24/7... soon you have no contact with anyone but him and he controls you completely. This is step one down a dark path. No one wants absolute and unaccountable control over another person for altruistic reasons.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> This is kind of my point.
> 
> You are seeing it as a witch hunt because the friend is single.
> 
> ...


He just said he doesn’t want me hanging with her anymore. No complaints that I party or drink too much, I honestly don’t. It was my sisters birthday and we were at her home. We weren’t at a bar or club. And he has no complaints about my other friend who lives out of State.. it’s just Winnie bc he feels she is responsible for the affair and I feel she wasn’t. She didn’t even know her friend and I slept together until after it happened. But I appreciate the responses, I already know what I have to do. 
thanks again.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> It does seem as though bad things have been happening recently involving this friend 🤷‍♂️. But OP needs to take accountability for her own actions. Maybe they should’ve waiting to get married. Together 11 years, why then get married after the A? Doesn’t make since.
> 
> You seem a little triggered. Was you ex controlling?If so, I’m sorry you had to got through that. ☹


My ex husband wasn't controlling. I've never been with a controlling partner like that. 

I'm not triggered, except in that it's aggravating to read how posters are blaming this friend for merely knowing the woman OP cheated with, and for the crime🤪 of happening to be there at OP's sister's house when OP overdrank. Why not blame the SISTER??? 

It's depressing to read these comments that are judging and scapegoating this friend for nothing she did wrong, except existing in the world as a single woman. 

I'd hate to see some of these people on a jury, FFS.


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## LoveisKind (6 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> Let me see if I understand:
> 
> You & your now husband have been in each others lives for 11 years.​​You & this BFF have been friends for 8 years.​​You overshared & gossiped about BFF to husband who has now concluded that she's inappropriately promiscuous & a bad influence on you.​​Before you married, after you had kids with DH, you had a same sex affair with another woman who is a mutual friend with BFF.​​DH wants you to cut ties with BFF after your sister's birthday when you went out with sister, & BFF then proceeded to get drunk & spent the night at your sister's house. DH's reasoning is that your BFF thinks like a single person, whereas a married friend would have gotten you home.​
> IMO a lot of this could have been avoided. DH should have gone out with you for sister's birthday. At a minimum because there was drinking, DH should have made arrangements to be your sober ride home instead of leaving it to you & your inebriated cohorts to figure out transportation after you had all been drinking.
> ...


Thank you for this advice and for taking the time to recap what I wrote and try to understand. What you wrote is along the lines of what I’m going to do to resolve this. I hope it is successful. 
And just for an update, he was invited, I always ask him to come with me whenever I go somewhere but he said no, so I asked my friend to come with me. He doesn’t like to go out anymore. He’s a home body.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> She was at her sister's house, not "going out partying with single people". She drank too much so she slept over at her sister's house.
> 
> It's like you didn't even read what OP wrote.


I agree with you livvie, but going out abd getting drunk resulted in her HAVING sex with a woman. Now she’s doing the same behavior.

going out partying and getting drunk is bait a good habit…. She keeps saying he’s also cheated. I’d like to hear more in that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LoveisKind said:


> That part, I understand and I also agree. I just don’t understand how my friend is to blame for that.


She’s not.

You are.

But she is always in the background when these events have occurred. 

So here is an honest question for you.

Is your husband specifically blaming her for these events? 

Or in a way are YOU deflecting his consternation towards her in an effort to deflect some of your accountability?

Let me rephrase and reframe this.

If you want to remain married to him and maintain your friendship and relationship with her,,, You are going to have to take full and complete accountability for your actions past, present and future.

Right now you are BOTH kind of scapegoating Winnie and holding her accountable for YOUR actions and making it about her.

This is the wrong answer. With this mentality, you could dump Winnie as a friend and still go out and have hook ups with other people and be out drunk and partying and not coming home at night because Winnie isn’t there.

That doesn’t make sense does it?? 

This about you and your behaviors. You must take accountability and responsibility. 

If you want to maintain your friendship with her and remain married to him, you need to stand up and take responsibility for yourself and accept the outcomes and ramifications of your own actions and not shift blame to her yourself…… and not allow him to shift blame to her either.

You’re the one that donut bumped with another chick and your the one that put the bottle(s) to your mouth and didn’t come home at night. 

If you stand up and take responsibility for your past, present and future actions and accept whatever consequences that come from your behavior, he will be more agreeable to you being friends with her.

And you need to realize that it is your choice to live the party lifestyle with her….. and it would then be his choice whether to remain married to you or not. 

This is all your choice and by your own hand.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LoveisKind said:


> Thank you for this advice and for taking the time to recap what I wrote and try to understand. What you wrote is along the lines of what I’m going to do to resolve this. I hope it is successful.
> And just for an update, he was invited, I always ask him to come with me whenever I go somewhere but he said no, so I asked my friend to come with me. He doesn’t like to go out anymore. He’s a home body.


Do you like being married to your husband?
Him taking off is odd. It is particularly odd since he has a baby with you. Could it be he is cheating and going to stay with his AP?
Just curious, anytime I see. Something unusual, it makes me wonder.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Do you like being married to your husband?
> Him taking off is odd. It is particularly odd since he has a baby with you. Could it be he is cheating and going to stay with his AP?
> Just curious, anytime I see. Something unusual, it makes me wonder.


 good point and if i am right they are only married 90 days , it all seems a bit over the top 90 days after the wedding over what was not a party but a over at sisters house and he could have went with her , it is called having his cake and eating it


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> My ex husband wasn't controlling. I've never been with a controlling partner like that.
> 
> I'm not triggered, except in that it's aggravating to read how posters are blaming this friend for merely knowing the woman OP cheated with, and for the crime🤪 of happening to be there at OP's sister's house when OP overdrank. Why not blame the SISTER???
> 
> ...


My personal thoughts are that BOTH the H and even the OP to a degree are scapegoating the friend for the OP’s actions. 

If my wife had a lesbian affair, I would not be taking out my angst on a 3rd party. I would be holding my wife accountable. 

If my wife was out drunk and partying and not coming home at night, I would also not take it up with a friend.

So in that regard, I do think the H Is diverting some of his ire towards the friend a bit much. 

However, I think the OP too may be shifting some of this attention towards the friend too much as well since this makes the argument and conflict about the friend instead of the fact she was getting down with someone else in the weeks leading up to the wedding and not coming home at night within months of the affair. 

IMHO the way to resolve the conflict over the friend is for her to taken accountability and responsibility for her own actions.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

That all being said, what do parents do when their kids are being naughty and there is one particular friend that all seems to be there when they’re getting into trouble????

And when that happens, what do the kids have to do if they want to keep being able to play with the friend?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> How gracious... after he cheated himself!


If someone cheats, do they relinquish their right have boundaries? 

Do they relinquish their right to have standards?

Are they obligated to accept being cheated on in return by their partner and must accept their partner going out getting skunk drunk and partying all night and not coming home at night?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If someone cheats, do they relinquish their right have boundaries?
> 
> Do they relinquish their right to have standards?
> 
> Are they obligated to accept being cheated on in return by their partner and must accept their partner going out getting skunk drunk and partying all night and not coming home at night?


no it does not but it does not give them the right to run away and sulk because the wife he married only 90 days ago in full knowing every thing there is to know over 11 years and demand to cut off their life , but with out dragging this topic out to try and win some debate that is not been debated about kids when they do something wrong as this woman is not a child, 

So even if you are a cheater and you were cheated on does not give you rights that are equal to prison 
or some form of far eastern life style 


oldshirt said:


> That all being said, what do parents do when their kids are being naughty and there is one particular friend that all seems to be there when they’re getting into trouble????
> 
> And when that happens, what do the kids have to do if they want to keep being able to play with the friend?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> no it does not but it does not give them the right to run away and sulk because the wife he married only 90 days ago in full knowing every thing there is to know over 11 years and demand to cut off their life , but with out dragging this topic out to try and win some debate that is not been debated about kids when they do something wrong as this woman is not a child,
> 
> So even if you are a cheater and you were cheated on does not give you rights that are equal to prison
> or some form of far eastern life style


She doesn't have to accept his ultimatum so it isn't a prison. She remains as free as always to do as she chooses. I loathe the guy for being a cheater in the past, but I applaud him now for standing firm on his boundaries. Even if we don't agree with the boundaries, they are his to establish and he is the only one that can make the call to bail out if she can't live with the boundaries. She is under no obligation to like them or live with them.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> And just for an update, he was invited, I always ask him to come with me whenever I go somewhere but he said no, so I asked my friend to come with me. He doesn’t like to go out anymore. He’s a home body.


It's time for you to become more of a homebody. When you want to go out & he doesn't, vary the people you go out with. Don't just always go out with her. When you do go out with her, make a point to contact DH at least once while you are out & do what you can to get home earlier than expectations.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

frenchpaddy said:


> no it does not but it does not give them the right to run away and sulk because the wife he married only 90 days ago in full knowing every thing there is to know over 11 years and demand to cut off their life , but with out dragging this topic out to try and win some debate that is not been debated about kids when they do something wrong as this woman is not a child,
> 
> So even if you are a cheater and you were cheated on does not give you rights that are equal to prison
> or some form of far eastern life style


Is he running away and sulking or is he establishing a boundary that he does not wish to remain married to someone that runs around with single people, parties all night and doesn’t come and that who has same-sex affairs when feels like it??

People are throwing around the terms “controlling” and “prison” and even “abusive” here. 

But has he sold her car and won’t give her access to personal transportation? 

Has he taken away her phone so she cannot have contact with anyone?

Has he threatened her with harm or violence if she tries to reach out to anyone? 

Has he himself contacted any of these people and told them to stay away “or else”?

Nothing here indicates any of that. What has been presented is he has told gotten his ducks in a row in preparation to leave if she continues to run around with this particular person.

He has not told her she “can’t.” He has not threatened her in any way if she does. 

He has stated he will exit the marriage if she continues down this path with this person.

We can argue over how much of a role ‘Winnie’ has actually played in the OP’s conduct.

But I am seeing this as a boundary of the H and that it is the OP’s choice as to whether she wants to remain married to him, or whether she wants to continue to party and run around with this chick. 

She is not inprisoned. She has free agency and free choice. Each choice has ramifications but it’s still her choice.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> Thank you for this advice and for taking the time to recap what I wrote and try to understand. What you wrote is along the lines of what I’m going to do to resolve this. I hope it is successful.
> And just for an update, he was invited, I always ask him to come with me whenever I go somewhere but he said no, so I asked my friend to come with me. He doesn’t like to go out anymore. He’s a home body.


I hope you at least are allowed to stay in touch with your sister. Please be careful. Can you get a job? Even something part time so you at least a little money.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

She's already said she doesn't need her husband to get by. She is capable of supporting herself and children, so she is far from being in a prison. Sounds like she can walk away any time she wants. 




LoveisKind said:


> He knows he’s not putting us in any real distress. I have the means to support myself and our children but it’s the principle. I feel it’s just a control tactic or manipulation possibly .. just doesn’t feel good.
> But, I don’t feel anyone can make me or influence me to do what I don’t want to do..


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I hope you at least are allowed to stay in touch with your sister. Please be careful. Can you get a job? Even something part time so you at least a little money.


“Allowed”??? “Be careful”? “Can you get a job”? 

You’re trying to take this down a battered wife algorithm where no evidence of abuse has been reported. 

I believe she has even stated she has a full time job and supporting herself would not be an issue.

Let’s make some important distinctions here. In abusive situations it is common for the abuser to isolate the victim from their friends and family. Abusers can do things like get rid of the victim’s car. Take away their phone. Threaten friends and family to stay away and they often threaten the victim with harm or take away the kids or reveal some shameful secret or whatever if they do anything. 

And of course there is also the actual abuse. 

But none of that has been presented here. 

The H has told her if she continues to run around with this friend that he will exit the relationship. 

The choice is her’s. 

She can continue to hook up with other people. 

She can continue to drink and party all night.

She can continue to run around with this friend and do all of that…..

………. Just not with him as her husband. 

That’s a boundary. It’s not abuse. 

It’s not telling her who she can see or who she can be friends with or what she can do.

It’s saying what he will and what he will not accept for him to remain in the marriage. 

She can say, “Buh bye” to him and call up ol’ Winnie and they can head on down to the lesbian bar all they want. Her choice.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> It's time for you to become more of a homebody. When you want to go out & he doesn't, vary the people you go out with. Don't just always go out with her. When you do go out with her, make a point to contact DH at least once while you are out & do what you can to get home earlier than expectations.


It was her sister's birthday.

She went to a birthday party at her sister's house that the husband passed on going to.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> “Allowed”??? “Be careful”? “Can you get a job”?
> 
> You’re trying to take this down a battered wife algorithm where no evidence of abuse has been reported.
> 
> ...


Run around with this friend??

Again, what universe are you in???

It was a birthday party at her sister's house, husband declined going.

That's hardly "running around".


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Run around with this friend??
> 
> Again, what universe are you in???
> 
> ...


Yeah, well, she didn't come home. My ex-wife did that a few times. I didn't really like the particular friends she was with in those circumstances either. 

If you are going to bother to be married, you should at the very least come home at night. Where she was at doesn't really make it better.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> “Allowed”??? “Be careful”? “Can you get a job”?
> 
> You’re trying to take this down a battered wife algorithm where no evidence of abuse has been reported.
> 
> ...


 Winnie is not lesbian 
and the op once went to bed with a woman and is not into women , 
has a good job that pays more than her 90 day husband/ cheater gets , who has walked out on his children


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> Yeah, well, she didn't come home. My ex-wife did that a few times. I didn't really like the particular friends she was with in those circumstances either.
> 
> If you are going to bother to be married, you should at the very least come home at night. Where she was at doesn't really make it better.


Right, in her sister's guest bedroom is such a bad place🙄


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Right, in her sister's guest bedroom is such a bad place🙄


When you go out without your husband and don't manage to get home, wherever you are can be considered a bad place. Doesn't seem like a big deal until it's your wife who doesn't come home.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

uwe.blab said:


> Yeah, well, she didn't come home. My ex-wife did that a few times. I didn't really like the particular friends she was with in those circumstances either.
> 
> If you are going to bother to be married, you should at the very least come home at night. Where she was at doesn't really make it better.


 my wifes father is in Ireland should I set bounders and tell her when she goes to visit for his 95th birthday that she must be home by 9 pm


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> Winnie is not lesbian
> and the op once went to bed with a woman and is not into women ,
> has a good job that pays more than her 90 day husband/ cheater gets , who has walked out on his children


I missed where she has a job, that’s a relief.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

You and your wife have a plan for her to go visit her dad in Ireland? That's great.

Not even remotely similar to having your wife go out with friends for the night and waking up at, say, 7 am and she isn't yet home.

But I hope she has a really nice time. Ireland is a great and beautiful land.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Run around with this friend??
> 
> Again, what universe are you in???
> 
> ...


You’re quibbling over verbiage and missed the whole point. 

My point is she has agency and choice here.

Much depends on a lot of other information context that we do not have access to yet.

Is this guy an ass normally? Is this part of a pattern of making threats and trying to control all that she does in other situations? 

Is she more of a party girl and she and Winnie are out clubbing and tearing it up more than she is telling us here? 

From what has been presented thus far, he does not want to remain with her if she continues to be involved with this Winnie.

I may not agree with him that this chick is that bad. But with the information that has been provided thus far, there is nothing else saying that has has been abusive or restricting her comings and goings or who she sees in any other situations or contexts. 

IF he is an otherwise normal and decent person and he has not shown any other signs of unreasonable and controlling behavior, then there’s likely more to this story than is being presented thus far in terms of the OP’s and Winnie’s conduct. 

In several pages of content, she has not said anything about him having abusive, controlling or manipulative behavior in their ELEVEN YEARS together so at the moment I’m not jumping on the battered wife bandwagon that this guy has been patiently plotting for 11 years for the ink to dry before he turns in to an abuser. 

If he was a controlling, manipulative asshole, it would have likely manifested by now. 

Either way, she is free to do what she wants. She’s free to keep seeing Winnie and free to hook up with whoever she wants.

She free to comply with her H’s wishes. 

She’s free to see if she can negotiate and work out some middle ground. 

She is free to do any of those things but she may not be free of the ramifications and outcomes of those things.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

frenchpaddy said:


> husband/ cheater gets , who has walked out on his children


The OP has stated that he has threatened to leave HER if she continues the friendship with her friend.

She has not said anything of him threatening to abandon or not support the children.

Only other posters have used the term “walking out on the children.” 

There is a difference between divorcing a spouse and abandoning children. 

Besides, we have judges and courts that determine how the children are supported.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> my wifes father is in Ireland should I set bounders and tell her when she goes to visit for his 95th birthday that she must be home by 9 pm


Oh fun for her! I’ve never been to Ireland, I hear it’s beautiful.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> The OP has stated that he has threatened to leave HER if she continues the friendship with her friend.
> 
> She has not said anything of him threatening to abandon or not support the children.
> 
> ...





LoveisKind said:


> We have two kids together and I'm just feeling like it's extremely unfair for him to put me in a position to tell my closest friend that we can no longer be friends. He moved all of his things out of our apartment and told me to figure it out (bills) on my own, he's not coming back as long as I continue to be friends with her. Idk what to do.. Do I continue to fight for my marriage or is this an unhealthy response and I should let it go anyways..


 op s opening post ,


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Livvie said:


> It was her sister's birthday.
> 
> She went to a birthday party at her sister's house that the husband passed on going to.


I understood the birthday party to be the last straw for the husband. I am not saying it's right for him to forbid her from having friends or a good time but there has to be some balance on her side too. If he "always" stays home but she "never" stays home with him what does that say? 

I don't see the big deal about sleeping at the sister's house but since it hurt DH's feelings, I offered suggestions to prevent a repeat -- transportation arrangements in advance & contact throughout the festivities should ward off the pouting. If it doesn't that is a different kettle of fish altogether.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

we still have the orish accent , 


TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh fun for her! I’ve never been to Ireland, I hear it’s beautiful.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I understood the birthday party to be the last straw for the husband. I am not saying it's right for him to forbid her from having friends or a good time but there has to be some balance on her side too. If he "always" stays home but she "never" stays home with him what does that say?
> 
> I don't see the big deal about sleeping at the sister's house but since it hurt DH's feelings, I offered suggestions to prevent a repeat -- transportation arrangements in advance & contact throughout the festivities should ward off the pouting. If it doesn't that is a different kettle of fish altogether.


 90 days after the wedding he could have backed out or put off the wedding if he thought she was keeping bad companies


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

looks to me he married her with his calculator in his hand , she with the higher wage in a divorce , as my mother used to say cheater one way cheater in all ways ,


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> If someone cheats, do they relinquish their right have boundaries?
> 
> Do they relinquish their right to have standards?
> 
> Are they obligated to accept being cheated on in return by their partner and must accept their partner going out getting skunk drunk and partying all night and not coming home at night?


He doesn’t have standards… he’s been controlling. That’s his standard. And a double standard at that.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

frenchpaddy said:


> looks to me he married her with his calculator in his hand , she with the higher wage in a divorce , as my mother used to say cheater one way cheater in all ways ,


He'd need to hold out a lot longer than 90 days if that were the case.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

frenchpaddy said:


> 90 days after the wedding he could have backed out or put off the wedding if he thought she was keeping bad companies


Yeah. And for the grace and forgiveness he showed her before the wedding, she repaid him with a drunken out-all-night not even 3 months later.

I congratulate him for finally setting a proper boundary to protect his marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> He has every right to. Just as she had when the roles were reversed years ago. That she didn't demand changes to reconcile has no bearing on what he needs to reconcile this time.


The demand is ridiculous and shows you the sort of cheating and controlling man he is.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DownButNotOut said:


> He'd need to hold out a lot longer than 90 days if that were the case.


 honeymoon period


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DownButNotOut said:


> Yeah. And for the grace and forgiveness he showed her before the wedding, she repaid him with a drunken out-all-night not even 3 months later.
> 
> I congratulate him for finally setting a proper boundary to protect his marriage.


which he was invited to , his place was with his new in laws


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Gosh, another caveman thread where the wife has to give up her best friend and is wrong for her to have some fun at her sister’s party and stay the night there, safely. Jesus.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> The demand is ridiculous and shows you the sort of cheating and controlling man he is.


You find it ridiculous. I find it proper. She has the free choice to respect the boundary or to go her own way. If he were controlling her he would prevent her from both leaving and acting single


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

90 days married and he’s bailing because of her best friend of 8 years? Nah. Something else is up.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> 90 days married and he’s bailing because of her best friend of 8 years? Nah. Something else is up.


Yeah there’s still gotta be more to the story.

Either he has a history of being a hot head and controlling and manipulative jerk which you think she would’ve mentioned by now.

Or she’s giving a very sanitized and highly edited version of what she and this Winnie have been up to.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> He doesn’t have standards… he’s been controlling. That’s his standard. And a double standard at that.


How is it a double standard? That would only be the case if OP told him to not hang out with someone associated with his past affair and he refused. No where has that been stated by the OP.

And what do you mean he has been controlling? This is basically brand new and the OP never mentioned prior ultimatums like this.

His prior cheating has zero bearing on him not wanting her to associate with someone that in his mind is linked to the homosexual affair. His wife shouldn't get a pass should she?

His ultimatum may seem somewhat irrational given what we've been told by the OP, but we don't know if we are getting the whole story and since when do we expect a betrayed spouse to act rationally? This is a really fresh affair. Don't most people here say it can take years to fully process and understand the full impact of an affair? This affair was only a few months ago and his head is probably still spinning.

I said it before. The husband is/was a POS for his prior cheating, but this is about a brand new affair by his wife. 

In this scenario he is the BS. Would anyone here be telling the betrayed husband he should cut his wife some slack about continuing to be around her friend that introduced her to the AP if he were posting here?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> He doesn’t have standards… he’s been controlling. That’s his standard. And a double standard at that.


There is definitely some striking double standards taking place amongst the peanut gallery here for sure.

Had the genders been reversed, people would be calling for his and the buddy’s heads on a platter. 

Would people be calling her a cavewoman or a spouse abuser?

Isn’t it standard to advise the BS that one of the requirements before considering reconciliation is that the WS cut all contact with not only the AP but those that in some way abetted, supported and concealed the affair. 

Isn’t it also standard recommendation that to reconcile the WS cease all activities that enabled the affair such as going out drinking and partying all night?

So yeah, there’s a whole lot of double standard taking place here alright - but it is people here, not the BH.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LoveisKind said:


> He knows he’s not putting us in any real distress. I have the means to support myself and our children but it’s the principle. I feel it’s just a control tactic or manipulation possibly .. just doesn’t feel good.
> But, I don’t feel anyone can make me or influence me to do what I don’t want to do..


Very often the first stage to implementing abuse going forward is isolating the spouse from her friends which are her support. I say don't ever let someone do that. If they really cared about your well-being they wouldn't want you to not have any friends.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Very often the first stage to implementing abuse going forward is isolating the spouse from her friends which are her support. I say don't ever let someone do that. If they really cared about your well-being they wouldn't want you to not have any friends.


It doesn’t start with “you can’t have any more friends!” It starts with one. Then it’s another, and another. Then it’s, “I’m your family, you don’t need them.” It’s very gradual, so gradual you don’t even notice until it’s been weeks since you spoke to anyone and you need permission to go to the grocery store.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Someone who loves you doesn't want you to give up people or pets that you love. 

And it's also very insulting when someone thinks that your friend has so much influence over you that they can make you do something you wouldn't ordinarily do because it's the same as saying that you don't have a functioning brain to make your own decisions and are just that mentally incompetent that you let others make your decisions for you. 

My advice is don't give up friends or pets for someone who asks you to.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Here is how it goes:
1. The OP cheated on her husband just a few months ago. 
2. The best friend introduce the affair partner to the OP and was thus reasonably connected by the husband to the affair. 
3. The husband feels that if he acted sooner on his prior concerns about the bad influence the single best friend was having on his wife, his wife would not have met her affair partner and there would not have been an affair.
4. The wife, her sister, and the best friend recently got drunk and did not come home. A prime opportunity for the OP to have cheated again.
5. The husband does not want to stay married to a wife with a best friend that is still linked to the wife’s affair, and to the bad behavior that could lead to another affair.
6. Bottom line is he does not trust the OP when she is around the best friend, and with good cause. 
7. When looking for reconciliation, the cheated on gets to make rule that will make him feel safer.
8. If the best friend is not blamed by the husband for the cheating, then the husband will have to accept that his wife is capable of cheating without the help of the best friend, and if that is the case, he does not want to stay married.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

No one wants absolute and unaccountable control over another adult for altruistic reasons. It’s a red flag.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> He cheated too... he is the only one demanding stuff...


Yes, he gets to have whatever boundaries and standards he wants.
If OP was able to get over his cheating more easily, and doesn’t feel the need to demand certain boundaries, that’s on her. Has no bearing on what her husband requires of her.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> “Allowed”??? “Be careful”? “Can you get a job”?
> 
> You’re trying to take this down a battered wife algorithm where no evidence of abuse has been reported.
> 
> ...


You do realize you can’t win an argument against irrational, emotionally reactive projections, right?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> The demand is ridiculous and shows you the sort of cheating and controlling man he is.


It would be interesting to compare marriages between those with this sentiment above, and those who don’t believe that’s obvious at this point and lean the opposite direction. I have a theory about how that would look.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> 90 days married and he’s bailing because of her best friend of 8 years? Nah. Something else is up.


old sayings are often right , Long churning makes bad butter, 
this guy and woman started dating 11 years ago , if he thought so much of her back 11 years ago why did he cheat on her ? they got past it why did it take so long to get married ? 

some people here seem to think a Marriage is two people that come together and live together through agreement ,
OFTEN the agreement is unspoken because they have some things in common , others things are through agreement 

should we lock up our wife's to protect them seems to be cumming out of this topic as the topic has stopped for the op about 4 pages back ,
Last evening 7 pm at the end of the day I left to go to see a site for a job my son is going to this morning , we live in a country area , I asked my wife if she wanted to come with us for the drive , she said no, wanted to do a last job I can't think what , 

when we came home she was changed into a t shirt and shorts , and went for a walk something she has started to do in the last 2 weeks, she goes for a walk of about 3km each evening , often takes different directions , where we live is quite area with country roads and lane ways , so never boring , 

When she was out walking along the road a car coming in the other direction slowed down when he met her and after passing it came to a stop , wife stayed walking the backed up she stayed walking , the car stopped for a bit and then backed up again , at this point my wife started to run , 

she did not know the number of the car but there are so few cars that pass our roads and from what she said about what the guy looked like I know who the guy is , 

now what do you make of that , 
should I put down my foot and tell her she should not walk on the road alone dressed in a shorts and T . dirty sl-t out 
walking on the road , poor men can't control themselves , 
If SHE was attacked and raped her outfit would come in to question Like she was asking for it


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It doesn’t start with “you can’t have any more friends!” It starts with one. Then it’s another, and another. Then it’s, “I’m your family, you don’t need them.” It’s very gradual, so gradual you don’t even notice until it’s been weeks since you spoke to anyone and you need permission to go to the grocery store.


It's a MASSIVE extrapolation to say that because her husband has an issue with this ONE person, that he's controlling, especially when the OP relatively recently cheated on the husband. But you e and others are climbing on that "controlling" bandwagon.

The OP says that her best friend did not facilitate the cheating. But...what if she had? What if this friend had an attitude like, "You don't owe anything to your husband, you have the right to have sex with whoever you want," or "You shouldn't deny yourself sexual pleasure with others even if you are married, so go for it with this other woman", etc. This friend would obviously be an enemy to the marriage, and every reasonable person would say that you need to cut that kind of person out of your life if you want to protect your marriage. 

Hell, no one had anything bad to say about the husband when he insisted that the Affair Partner be cut out of their lives. And the OP did cut her out and said she understood why the husband would insist on it, although based on the OP's posting, it looks like she wouldn't have done so if the husband hadn't insisted. So, it looks like the Wayward Wife wouldn't have willingly taken the step of cutting the Affair Partner off on her own accord and by her own initiative. (This makes me worry about the potential for rugsweeping.) In any event, any facilitator of the affair should be cut off just like the Affair Partner is, and we see in TAM many times this is done to allow a successful reconciliation.

So the determining factor on whether or not the husband is "controlling" is whether the Best Friend really is an enemy to the marriage or not. OP says the Best Friend was not responsible for the cheat. However, the husband thinks otherwise. IF the husband is actually correct, then this is not a "controlling" situation at all.

So why is there a disparity between the OP saying the Best Friend has nothing to do with the cheat, and the husband believing she does? Maybe @oldshirt is right, and it's easier for the husband to blame the friend, rather than face up to the fact that his NEW wife of 90 days doesn't have the boundaries or the character that he thinks she does/should. Maybe the friend actually has more of a role than the OP realizes? Maybe the OP is downplaying the role of friend in an effort to minimize/rugsweep? OP says the friend has had promiscuous phases, and the husband may be convinced that, at some level, the influence by example may have a role in breaking down OP's boundaries for cheating. (That is not an unreasonable fear, actually. There's a good amount of common belief and wisdom that you become like the company you keep.) This may have, at some level, made it easier for the OP to cheat. Whatever the explanation, the husband clearly doesn't believe that the BFF has no responsibility at any level. 

It has been said repeatedly in TAM that it takes YEARS to recover from infidelity. This cheating was relatively recent--during their engagement, in fact, and they've only been married 90 days. We have seen many times in TAM where a Betrayed Spouse makes an initial effort to reconcile, rugsweeps, but later finds that they just cannot live with it after all. Rather than a "controlling" psycho, I think that, in reality, the Betrayed Husband is actually going down the pathway of someone who is finding that they cannot live with the reality of the betrayal. We see all the time that the BS starts becoming hypervigilant and triggered over every little event or fact. It seems to me that THIS is the situation we are seeing; I don't really see anything else that supports an "abuser" situation. 

Has the OP really done all the "heavy lifting" to help her Betrayed Husband heal from the infidelity? Has the OP really done everything she can to prevent a recurrence of cheating---that includes going into individual therapy? After all, she was engaged with someone who she was determined to spend the rest of her life with, but she was willing to trash that for a sex romp with another woman (and she says she has no desire for women currently). She betrayed her (now) husband who she called in this thread as also her "best friend". Why would she do that? Why were her boundaries so weak. That is the sort of thing that Individual Counseling helps the cheater address to help prevent a recurrence of the behavior. But if she doesn't take these steps---if she doesn't say, "there is a problem with me that I did that, and I need to fix it to save and protect my marriage", but rather says, "it happened, it's my fault, I'm sorry I hurt you, but let's move on" (or some variant of that), then the husband is left with wrestling with the question of "WHY did this occur"? Is his wife in some way defective in her personality? (and taking no steps to fix that through counseling). Or were there outside forces?--like a skanky best friend (in the husband's mind) that could have unduly influenced his otherwise blameless wife? And the fact that this friend was at the "scene of the crime" again when his wife got too drunk to come home will only fuel his suspicion that the friend is a bad influence. It doesn't matter that the posters here say that being drunk at her sister's is no big deal A Betrayed Husband with and unresolved attempt at reconciliation sees her over-drinking instead as just another example of loss of self-control, just like the cheating. At the friend is there once again. We see this all the time on TAM---during reconciliation attempts after infidelity, when the (former) cheater is delayed coming home from work, the first thought is not, "Gee, traffic must be bad" or "I hope they didn't get into an accident". Instead the betrayed spouse thinks, "Oh no, they may be cheating again!". It's a universal reaction by Betrayed Spouses, especially when there has been rugsweeping/false reconciliation.

So, I'm going to go with @oldshirt here. I don't see sufficient evidence that this is an abuser starting a pattern of control. Instead, I see this as an incomplete attempt at a reconciliation through rugsweeping and displacing the blame on the BFF instead of confronting the underlying issues that led to the cheating. As such, I think this false reconciliation will be doomed to failure.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Evinrude58 said:


> 90 days married and he’s bailing because of her best friend of 8 years? Nah. Something else is up.


Of course something else is up. The OP CHEATED on her husband just a few months ago. She cheated just before they got married. She cheated during their engagement, the time when she had decided that he would be the one person for him for the rest of her life, so they should seal that with a wedding as an outward example of the commitment of their love.

And honestly, the OP hasn't posted anything that reflects remorse about it. Instead of saying she cheated and that she betrayed the person she had promised to commit the rest of her life to, she brushes it off by saying she "experimented". That would be universally regarding as minimizing the cheating in other TAM threads.

The OP cut off communication with the Affair Partner, "Alice", and describes it as such:
"I confessed to the affair 2 days after it happened and we decided to move past it and proceeded to get married. His words were that he’s done things he regretted in the past and he didn’t want to dwell on it. He even told me he didn’t mind me continuing to be friends with Alice as long as it just didn’t happen again. I honestly don’t have the desire to be with women so I felt pretty confident that it wouldn’t.
However, over time, it started to bother him more and more. After after we got married, he said he didn’t want me hanging out with Alice or speaking to her and I agreed to it and stopped communicating. I didn’t really care bc although she’s a nice person and someone I had started to call a friend, I don’t care about severing ties with her if it makes him uncomfortable."

So, the OP herself says she only cut off ties to the Affair Partner because it made the husband uncomfortable, NOT because she herself realizes that cutting off the AP is a necessary step in healing the marriage. In fact, the AP is "a nice person and someone I had started to call a friend." This doesn't look like the OP recognizes that the AP is, in fact, a THREAT to the marriage. Really, the above looks like instead the OP is only cutting off the AP to placate the insecurities of her husband, with no real ownership of the infidelity.

So, yeah, something else is up. This is a false reconciliation. We've seen it a zillion times before on TAM. The Betrayed Spouse initially tries to swallow the **** Sandwich that the cheater has served up. After an initial period of rugsweeping, the ability of the Betrayed Spouse to live with the infidelity becomes less and less. The most likely explanation is that the OP hasn't done the heavy lifting required to help her husband heal, and hasn't done the self-examination and individual counseling required to address why she would commit such a monstrous betrayal against her husband, mere months before their wedding. 

We've seen this kind of outcome many times in TAM when there has been rugsweeping/false reconciliation. Why would we expect anything else?


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Wolfman1968 said:


> We've seen this kind of outcome many times in TAM when there has been rugsweeping/false reconciliation. Why would we expect anything else?


Because what you're saying doesn't fit the man=abuser / woman=victim narrative.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> It would be interesting to compare marriages between those with this sentiment above, and those who don’t believe that’s obvious at this point and lean the opposite direction. I have a theory about how that would look.


I'm all ears!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> There is definitely some striking double standards taking place amongst the peanut gallery here for sure.
> 
> Had the genders been reversed, people would be calling for his and the buddy’s heads on a platter.
> 
> ...


Well, you see, we will never agree on this because you keep saying that going once to a party or going out occasionally with friends is an affair-enabling behaviour which is, obviously, a ridiculous thing to say. Like it's ridiculous to stop his wife seeing her best friend. And I would say the same if the opposite happened. If you want to live in your cage full of doubts and ifs and buts, to the point that you have to stop your partner seeing their friends, then I wouldn't want to be with that partner in that cage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LoveisKind said:


> that’s what I agreed to do but he says he doesn’t want me talking to her at all.


He may see it as she knew what you were gonna do and she did not put a stop to it. Did the lesbian activities take place at Winnie's house? I don't blame him for having a bad taste in his mouth around her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownButNotOut said:


> From the point of view of the betrayed? I'd say yes.


Friend also knew what was happening and did not put a stop to it


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> They’ve been married a year, party individually with single, promiscuous friends and have affairs. Oh, by they way, they are parents also. IMO, these two shouldn’t have gotten married.


I understood it that they have been married 3 months and the lesbian escapades we're 2 months before the wedding...as I understood from OPs comments.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LoveisKind said:


> He just said he doesn’t want me hanging with her anymore. No complaints that I party or drink too much, I honestly don’t. It was my sisters birthday and we were at her home. We weren’t at a bar or club. And he has no complaints about my other friend who lives out of State.. it’s just Winnie bc he feels she is responsible for the affair and I feel she wasn’t. She didn’t even know her friend and I slept together until after it happened. But I appreciate the responses, I already know what I have to do.
> thanks again.


But you said previously that she was warning you against it. Where did it happen at?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Very often the first stage to implementing abuse going forward is isolating the spouse from her friends which are her support. I say don't ever let someone do that. If they really cared about your well-being they wouldn't want you to not have any friends.


Likewise, if you cared about your marriage, you would not go out with your single party friends. 

Wonder if OP has GNO with Winnie. May be a part of his issues after get adultry.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

OP how long ago did he "cheat" on you. Did he have sex with another girl?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It doesn’t start with “you can’t have any more friends!” It starts with one. Then it’s another, and another. Then it’s, “I’m your family, you don’t need them.” It’s very gradual, so gradual you don’t even notice until it’s been weeks since you spoke to anyone and you need permission to go to the grocery store.


But there has been no mention of that over an 11 year relationship.

If he starts doing that over time going forward and starts abusing her and stuff, then you can accuse him of abuse. 

But as it stands now, none of that has happened.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It doesn’t start with “you can’t have any more friends!” It starts with one. Then it’s another, and another. Then it’s, “I’m your family, you don’t need them.” It’s very gradual, so gradual you don’t even notice until it’s been weeks since you spoke to anyone and you need permission to go to the grocery store.


What you seem to be forgetting is this started with infidelity. These people have been a couple with kids for 11 years and the OP makes no mention of prior control issues. The "control issues" only cropped up mere months after the wife cheated on her husband. That was the trigger. You could be right, maybe from here on out he will have control issues because he can't get over the affair. But that means you are tryin to predict the future based one a one time event while ignoring the other 11 years.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Some of the value of forums like these is the spectrum of different opinions and perspectives from a variety of people that have had variety of different experiences.

The problem with forums like these a wide spectrum of different opinions and perspectives from a variety of people that have had a variety of experiences. 

In the initial salvos of this thread, some of the early posters saw this as a quasi abuse type situation where the azzhole husband was trying to restrict which friends and family the OP could see. That theme has kind of continued to permeate the thread. 

But I think people need to go back the last page or two and read @Wolfman1968 posts again. 

This is NOT an abuse and controlling issue- - it is an infidelity and failing reconciliation issue. 

The BH is not abusive or controlling. He is a normal, garden variety BH responding the way countless BS’s do. 

My personal opinion is that both the OP and the BH have rugswept their affairs and and both are blameshifting towards the friend and both doing some Olympic level rugsweeping. 

How much actual culpability’Winnie’ has in the OP’s affair is open for debate amongst us. Some of us will see her as a completely innocent victim while others of us will see her as a facilitator and bad influence.

But we need to keep in mind that a BS will think ANYONE that was in the same area code of the affair that did not immediately burn the house down to prevent it and sound the alarm immediately to the BS as scheming, participating coconspirator who intentionally concocted the affair. 

Where this all went off the rails after the affairs is they did not truly address the affairs by either party.

This is not really about whether she can see the friend or not. 

This is all about unresolved and unaddressed history of infidelity by both parties.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Here we have a WW that is capable of supporting herself and her children without her husband. She is not in any kind of prison. Why is there so much concern for a cheating wife that has the ability, and track record, to do whatever she wants?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Well, I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it is unfair that he ask this of you. As long as you are honorable and she isn't an influence on you, I might still have a problem with her, but would trust you do be respectful of the marriage.

On the other hand, nobody wants their spouse to go out and do certain things with people like that. If it was just you going to dinner, he should try to relax a bit.

But if you are going to nightclubs with her, or bar where she is hitting on men, even though you may not be doing the same, it's not good for the marriage. So maybe assure him you aren't going to be doing certain things or going certain places with him where her activities would leave you in an awkward situation.

So as long as you aren't engaging in single people type of activities with her, I think he should lighten up, but I do understand his concerns.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Now single woman who date should be discriminated against and married women shouldn't be friends twith them? Spare me.


Now just where did he say that? He said the ultimatum is over the top and suggested ways for her to still be friends with her that shouldn't cause her husband concern.

He didn't say she couldn't be friends with her friend. He just said mind the types of activities she engages in with her.



> Yeah none of that makes sense.
> 
> The friend is single and dating.
> 
> ...


FFS, nobody is saying a married person can't be friends with a single person. This friend is single and seems to be quite loose. Ok, fine. What is being said is that a married person should act like a married person and refrain from getting caught up in the single life of the friend.

Go out to dinner, a movie....things like that.

Bar hopping where she is likely hitting on other men and could be encouraging her to do it as well? No.

Married people can have single friends. That isn't the problem here. His ultimatum, as one said, is over the top. But if she is engaging in activities with her that single people do, then his concerns are valid.

*EDIT: *Guess I just now realized it. They have been together for 11 years before getting married and she DID cheat on him right before they got married.

This changes everything. She cheated....he doesn't want her to be out with someone he sees as being very loose and likely encouraging her. 
She has proven she has questionable decision making and fidelity. So this kind of blows the "she can't have single friends??" argument out of the water.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Gosh, another caveman thread where the wife has to give up her best friend and is wrong for her to have some fun at her sister’s party and stay the night there, safely. Jesus.


Having so much fun you can't make it home = single person


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The demand is ridiculous and shows you the sort of cheating and controlling man he is.


Did she say he cheated? If so I missed it.

But she did admit while dating for 11 years that she cheated right before they got married. So although the ultimatum is over the top, his concerns are not.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> 90 days married and he’s bailing because of her best friend of 8 years? Nah. Something else is up.


She cheated on him right before they got married, so I'm guessing there was some wild night out that was deemed inappropriate as a married person who already had already destroyed trust.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Did she say he cheated? If so I missed it.
> 
> But she did admit while dating for 11 years that she cheated right before they got married. So although the ultimatum is over the top, his concerns are not.


Both cheated. He cheated quite sometime ago, she cheated with another woman 2 months before they got married. 

She said her friend didn't condone the affair, OP took ownership for her choice to "experiment" with another woman. However, the husband, cheater or not, sees a connection between the friend and the AP. It is simple as that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

drencrom said:


> She cheated on him right before they got married, so I'm guessing there was some wild night out that was deemed inappropriate as a married person who already had already destroyed trust.


I think you should read the thread.

She's not going out to bars with the single friend. She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣 Her best friend just happened to be there. Said friend was actually taking care of OP and make her some food etc. 

Cheating was with a woman. The friend didn't know about it until after the fact and then discouraged it. 

Geez.

Husband cheated in the past as well.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> Likewise, if you cared about your marriage, you would not go out with your single party friends.
> 
> Wonder if OP has GNO with Winnie. May be a part of his issues after get adultry.


That's just not true. It is actually a pretty lousy person who gives up their friends just because they get married.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just not true. It is actually a pretty lousy person who gives up their friends just because they get married.


That is not universally true. I gave up almost all of my friends when we got married. We still stayed in touch to some degree, but I needed to stop being around them. Nearly every one of the people I hung out with were not good for me and my relationship with my wife. I loved them all, I thought they were great friends and in a way they were. However they were also a bad influence. I got marred and moved out of the state, in part, to cut all ties with those friends. After we were married we made new friends, mostly married friends, that were all on the same page as us. 

Once married everything is about doing what it right for the marriage IMO.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just not true. It is actually a pretty lousy person who gives up their friends just because they get married.


Nothing I said was about giving up friends.

I would have no issue with wife going shopping, lunch, inviting them over for BBQ, etc with same sex friends. Going out to bars/clubs on GNO or a girls cruise/vacation, etc. that I would have issue with. And if she was ok with me going on BNO, I would take it as me and our marriage is not that important to her.

In same way I chose not to have a Bachelor Party, why would I go out clubbing when the woman I want is at home. My wife is same.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I think you should read the thread.
> 
> She's not going out to bars with the single friend. She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣 Her best friend just happened to be there. Said friend was actually taking care of OP and make her some food etc.
> 
> ...


She stated has been going and doing other things with Winnie, she has not clarified if these meet ups were GNO or lunch/shopping, etc. Or just hanging out at her house.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

this topic is becoming a case of IF IF IF 


BigDaddyNY said:


> What you seem to be forgetting is this started with infidelity. These people have been a couple with kids for 11 years and the OP makes no mention of prior control issues. The "control issues" only cropped up mere months after the wife cheated on her husband. That was the trigger. You could be right, maybe from here on out he will have control issues because he can't get over the affair. But that means you are tryin to predict the future based one a one time event while ignoring the other 11 years.





BigDaddyNY said:


> That is not universally true. I gave up almost all of my friends when we got married. We still stayed in touch to some degree, but I needed to stop being around them. Nearly every one of the people I hung out with were not good for me and my relationship with my wife. I loved them all, I thought they were great friends and in a way they were. However they were also a bad influence. I got marred and moved out of the state, in part, to cut all ties with those friends. After we were married we made new friends, mostly married friends, that were all on the same page as us.
> 
> Once married everything is about doing what it right for the marriage IMO.


good for you you saw that you friends were not true friends and cut them off , 

THIS FRIEND is not like that , WE ALL have friends that we know from years back , you have a mind to keep out of trouble or not , no point in passing the blame ,

it is not all ways true "show me your friends and I will show you who you are " 

with the amount of ifs been put out there may the husband wants to cheat with the friend because he thinks she would sleep with any dog , , it is no more silly as the other if if if points been put out here


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Livvie said:


> I think you should read the thread.
> 
> She's not going out to bars with the single friend. She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣 Her best friend just happened to be there. Said friend was actually taking care of OP and make her some food etc.
> 
> ...


I have read the thread. She should be able to come home at night. Or just be single and do whatever she wants-- that solves it.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> She stated has been going and doing other things with Winnie, she has not clarified if these meet ups were GNO or lunch/shopping, etc. Or just hanging out at her house.


in all fairness she did not say much about her husbands cheating all so , she just said in one post that he had cheated , and in another she said his mother and sister excepted his cheating and know about it


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> This is all about unresolved and unaddressed history of infidelity by both parties.


The husband has unresolved issues and now is trying to control his wife instead of controlling his issues.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> this topic is becoming a case of IF IF IF
> 
> 
> good for you you saw that you friends were not true friends and cut them off ,
> ...


You don't know her friend is not like that. You are just assuming.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You don't know her friend is not like that. You are just assuming.


making a point you don't know and have made a lot of assumptions all so this is why i made the point


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The husband has unresolved issues and now is trying to control his wife instead of controlling his issues.


 I think much the same


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> The husband has unresolved issues and now is trying to control his wife instead of controlling his issues.


"Hi, I've only been married for 3 months. 5 months ago my now wife had a one night stand with another woman. I tried to forgive her, and move on. Last night she went out with her female best friend while I watched our 2 kids. She didn't come home until this morning. She said she got too drunk and she and her friend crashed at my wife's sister's house. How should I deal with this???"


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> "Hi, I've only been married for 3 months. 5 months ago my now wife had a one night stand with another woman. I tried to forgive her, and move on. Last night she went out with her female best friend while I watched our 2 kids. She didn't come home until this morning. She said she got too drunk and she and her friend crashed at my wife's sister's house. How should I deal with this???"


Nice one... I laughed... but you've missed out some important bits, haven't you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I think you should read the thread.
> 
> She's not going out to bars with the single friend. She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣 Her best friend just happened to be there. Said friend was actually taking care of OP and make her some food etc.
> 
> ...


The BH’s ire towards Winnie may be misplaced. He may not be accurate in his assumption of her culpability in her affair. 

But this is how BS’s often react. 

It is just one of the repercussions of having an affair. 

If a BS believes, whether rightly or wrongly, that a friend was somehow involved or complicit in the affair, they will not want the WS involved with them any longer. Period.

If she wants to remain married and wants to also continue her friendship with her friend, this is something they will need to address and work through in therapy and MC. 

If she wants the heat taken off of the friend, she will need to take full accountability of the affair and he will need to also accept the OP’s choice and responsibility in the affair.

But even that may not be enough for him to accept Winnie into their lives.

It is not at all uncommon for a BS to ultimately forgive and reconcile with the WS.

But they may forever hold a grudge and never forgive any friends or family that they believe to be a conspirator or supporter of the affair.

This is one of the repercussions of having an affair. The BS may never accept any friends or family of the WS that believe were complicit.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> Nice one... I laughed... but you've missed out some important bits, haven't you?


"Oh .. we've been together 11 years, have 2 kids, and the woman she was out with all night was the same woman who introduced her to her one night stand. "

From his point of view. Seriously, what's your advice to him?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm done with the crazy projecting going on in this thread. 

OP I wish you well. I think your husband is unrealistic and unreasonable regarding your friend, and in the way he left the household.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DownButNotOut said:


> "Oh .. we've been together 11 years, have 2 kids, and the woman she was out with all night was the same woman who introduced her to her one night stand. "
> 
> From his point of view. Seriously, what's your advice to him?


can you fill us in on how many women did you cheat with over the years , and was it sex once or did the affairs go on over a long time , did you get the kids DNA tested , 
do you think your wife's friend is sexy is that why you don't like her


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> From his point of view. Seriously, what's your advice to him?


Not to stop his wife seeing her best and longstanding friend if he wants his marriage to survive. But maybe he doesn't or doesn't care.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> The husband has unresolved issues and now is trying to control his wife instead of controlling his issues.


Ok but my point is this is common behavior for a BS. Having your BS have a long lasting beef against any of your friends that they believe was involved in your affair is one of the consequences of cheating whether the friend was truly instrumental in the affair or not.

This is an infidelity issue, not an asshole controlling husband issue. 

Do they BOTH have issues to address and work out? YES.

But those issues are about infidelity and trust and NOT about him being a controlling, abusive bully that is isolating her from her friends and family.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> But those issues are about infidelity and trust and NOT about him being a controlling, abusive bully that is isolating her from her friends and family.


I think it's a bit of both...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Not to stop his wife seeing her best and longstanding friend if he wants his marriage to survive. But maybe he doesn't or doesn't care.


You’re not getting it. 

He is a BH that believes that the friend was a contributing factor in his WW’s affair.

This is almost universal with BS’s if they believe, whether rightly or wrongly, that a friend or relative of the WS was a supporting factor in the affair.

If she wants to maintain a relationship with both, it is on HER to take accountability and responsibility for her affair. 

He may or may not ever fully pardon the friend if he believes she was a contributing factor.

Again, this is NOT a case of an abusive, controlling husband isolating a battered wife from friends or family. 

He has an issue with this ONE person that always seems to be there whenever the OP shows inappropriate behavior. 

This is a repercussion of her affair and not a case of a controlling bully husband.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's a bit of both...


They both have serious marital issues to address yes.

But the issue that he is a bully trying to isolate her from friends and family.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I think you should read the thread.


I did.



> She's not going out to bars with the single friend.


I didn't say she was. I said I'm guessing that is the case because there seems to be more to the story than what she is telling us.



> She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣


I wasn't addressing that part of her story.



> Cheating was with a woman.


And???



> The friend didn't know about it until after the fact and then discouraged it.
> 
> Geez.


Again, as far as your "I think you should read the thread" part, I didn't say one way or the other if the friend had a hand in it. I said she cheated, plain and simple.



> Husband cheated in the past as well.


I see that. They both did and decided to wipe the slate clean then got married.

Only one problem, when he went to get her at her sister's house, she was drunk, the BFF was there...so the situation now is, both have done things they regret, forgave, and decided to move on, however, one of them is still acting like they are single. 

It's real simple, they both F'd up, forgave, got married and need to ACT like they are married now. Going out with a single friend who wants to party the single life isn't what the married person should be doing.

Again, if all that ever happened was she went out to dinner with her BFF, a movie, or anything else that isn't seen as single partying, I'm wondering if her H would still have a problem with it. I'm guessing not. Yes, I know this was her sister's bday party, but by OP's description what set him off was finding her drunk after finding out the BFF was there, who he sees as being a trollop, and may have wondered if after the party they went out and whooped it up. Not excusing his ultimatum, but when 2 people have decided to wipe a slate clean and get married, there is an expectation that they will ACT like they are married. 

Maybe OP can clarify. @LoveisKind , other than this incident that set him off, when you hang out with your friend, Winnie, what does the night out look like? What do you do?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The title and opening post is one big DARVO attempt and it was placed in the General Relationship forum.

If this was rightly posted in the infidelity section with the title- “WW DOES NOT LIKE REPERCUSSIONS OF HER AFFAIR,” it would have had an entirely different flavor and content of responses.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just not true. It is actually a pretty lousy person who gives up their friends just because they get married.


Doesn't have to give up the friends....just the lifestyle. If single friends want to go out bar hopping and hook up with guys, that is not a night out the married person needs to be involved in.

Again, not saying that has happened, but wondering if it ever does and maybe @LoveisKind can clarify. If she shuns those types of outings with "Winnie", and H knows this, then his ultimatum is absurd. Otherwise, even though still over the top, his feelings are understandable. They both F'd up prior to marriage, forgave, wiped the slate clean, and married. Now married they both should act married. If she is, he needs to lighten up.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Right, in her sister's guest bedroom is such a bad place🙄


Uh huh, and since "Winnie" was there, we have no way of knowing if they went out and whooped it up the night before at bars, etc. I'm not going to assume, but her H may have more information about the way she has conducted herself during the marriage that may have set him off when he found her drunk at her sister's place with the person he doesn't trust to not try to influence her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

drencrom said:


> Uh huh, and since "Winnie" was there, we have no way of knowing if they went out and whooped it up the night before at bars, etc. I'm not going to assume, but her H may have more information about the way she has conducted herself during the marriage that may have set him off when he found her drunk at her sister's place with the person he doesn't trust to not try to influence her.


Yeah. I don’t know how much you’ve followed the thread or read the OP’s posts, but at its core, she cheated and this Winnie was friends with and introduced the AP and then Winnie went with the OP when she end up getting schnockered at her sister’s party and was out all night.

A number of posters are seeing this as the BH is “controlling” and trying to isolate the OP from friends and family and a couple have gotten riled up at the implication that Winnie single and promiscuous and thus the OP shouldnt have single friends. 

What some i think are failing to see is the the H is in fact a BH who’s wife got down with another woman weeks before the wedding and sees Winnie as at least complicit if not actually facilitating.

So when a WW goes out with said single friend to a party, gets hammered and does not come home at night- what is he going to think???

Yes it was her sisters and maybe they didn’t hit the bars, but to a recent BH, does any of that really matter??

In his mind, how many other dudes or chicks slipped into the bedroom with her that night??

The fact Winnie gave her Tylenol and Rice Krispy bars means absolutely nothing to him. 

In his mind she was bringing other dudes and chicks into the orgy room.

He may be completely wrong and mistaken in all of that,,, but those are the things that are front and center in a BS’s mind. 

They have not adequately addressed their issues or worked through an effective reconciliation yet and this is all the baggage and fallout and ramifications that come with affairs.

For some reason, some of the posters here are not getting that and are focused on the fact he doesn’t want her running around with this chick anymore and are seeing that as abusive and controlling.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

In Absentia said:


> Not to stop his wife seeing her best and longstanding friend if he wants his marriage to survive. But maybe he doesn't or doesn't care.


Yeah yeah. I didn't ask you what he shouldn't do. I asked you what he should do.

His wife cheated with another woman. She has recently stayed out all night drinking. She doesn't want to change her behavior. What should he do?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> For some reason, some of the posters here are not getting that and are focused on the fact he doesn’t want her running around with this chick anymore and are seeing that as abusive and controlling.


Because they don’t want to get it. 
And it’s usually the same handful of folks who seem to have a reflexive, predetermined narrative around a man enacting marital boundaries.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I'm amazed at the way this WW is being treated. I have never seen any post here where the wayward spouse is the one that has any say in what is needed for reconciliation.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm amazed at the way this WW is being treated. I have never seen any post here where the wayward spouse is the one that has any say in what is needed for reconciliation.


which one of the WW , I just love to see how so many can say the same thing over and over like as if we did not get it the first 999 times ,


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> which one of the WW , I just love to see how so many can say the same thing over and over like as if we did not get it the first 999 times ,


There is only one WW. And it appears you aren't getting it from what I can tell.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There is only one WW. And it appears you aren't getting it from what I can tell.


 both have cheated just we don't know how much he did , but his mother and sister thought it was fine to do


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> both have cheated just we don't know how much he did , but his mother and sister thought it was fine to do


Yep, but that is irrelevant information for the situation at hand.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

This is exhausting. Whatever she needs to reconcile with what he did years ago is up to her.

What he needs to reconcile with what she did months/weeks ago is up to him.

This thread is about the second of those.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diceplayer said:


> Correct. The decision is yours and you chose your friend over your husband and the father of your children. There is a phrase in a lot of weddings that says, "What God has put together, let no man put asunder." That goes for women too. You allowed your friend to come between you and your husband. Your husband is supposed to have first place in your heart and you allowed your friend to have his place. So yes, it was your decision. Now you will live with the consequences.


And your friend might be the better bargain when it's all said and done given his actions. She's still there and he's not, right?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And your friend might be the better bargain when it's all said and done given his actions. She's still there and he's not, right?


I think this is the advice I would give her if ever she come back and ask for ,


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I think the husband doesn't trust the level of influence the friend (potentially) has over the wife.
> This could be supported if he believes his then-gf was influenced to cheat by this friend.
> 
> Is it valid? who knows. But the husband's perception is all he has to go on.
> ...


You say the husband doesn't trust the level of influence the friend has over her. That's just another way of saying she's too feeble-minded to make her own decisions. So if he thinks so little of her why did he marry her to begin with? Well maybe it's true. Maybe she's so feeble-minded she chose to marry him.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You say the husband doesn't trust the level of influence the friend has over her. That's just another way of saying she's too feeble-minded to make her own decisions. So if he thinks so little of her why did he marry her to begin with? Well maybe it's true. Maybe she's so feeble-minded she chose to marry him.


I question the decision making ability of both of them. He made the choice to cheat in the past, not sure when but it sounds like the kids probably came after. Yet she chose to stick around. She chose to cheat just a couple months before getting married, yet he chose to stick around. All bad decisions IMO. Maybe OP's friend is actually the normal and smart one of the group. 🤷‍♂️


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> You’re not getting it.


No, I’m not. Sorry!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> I knew someone who got married after living together for many years.
> 
> His sudden use of control techniques and violence was an utter shock.


On that note, an old roommate of mine had a bf while living with me and then married him 3 years later.

Between the two of us we had a lot of friends and house guests. She also had her family in the area.

I knew he was a petty thief because I caught him at it once, but that's all I picked up about him.

He joined the Navy simultaneous with getting married and they moved to the East Coast near the base. As soon as he had her away from her friends and family, her support system, he started trying to beat her into shape. 

3 years and she had no idea he would do something like that. 

Here's where it pays to hold on to your girlfriends. She called me in the middle of the night to tell me what happened and I told her to get in the car and just drive home, and she did, right then. Once he found out where she lived after she got a job, he was breaking into her apartment and stalking her.

The Navy finally put him in naval prison and diagnosed him as a sociopath. 

Once out he returned to the area and commenced being a petty thief again and mistreating women. As Texas mom has used the phrase, he definitely played the long game. 

Just a fluke, a guy I worked in the office with mentioned him one day because he was seeing his ex-gf. He was using a pseudonym by then. So I warned him and he warned her, and he had already been ripping her off and her friends off and she had no clue it was him doing it. 

It pays to keep your friends.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I question the decision making ability of both of them. He made the choice to cheat in the past, not sure when but it sounds like the kids probably came after. Yet she chose to stick around. She chose to cheat just a couple months before getting married, yet he chose to stick around. All bad decisions IMO. Maybe OP's friend is actually the normal and smart one of the group. 🤷‍♂️


Maybe, but perfect people rarely come knocking on the door at TAM. We want to help them break whatever cycle they're in. Running off an innocent friend is wrong.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And your friend might be the better bargain when it's all said and done given his actions. She's still there and he's not, right?


Well, she didn't cheat on the friend.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DownButNotOut said:


> Well, she didn't cheat on the friend.


The friend had nothing to do with it so that's completely immaterial.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownButNotOut said:


> Yeah yeah. I didn't ask you what he shouldn't do. I asked you what he should do.
> 
> His wife cheated with another woman. She has recently stayed out all night drinking. She doesn't want to change her behavior. What should he do?


If that was a recurring behaviour, I would be worried. Is that a recurring behaviour? She was at her sister’s party, once. Do you have any proof she goes out all the time getting drunk? When you have that proof, maybe we can stop speculating and have an evidence-based discussion. It’s quite tiring discussing hot air.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The friend had nothing to do with it so that's completely immaterial.





DownByTheRiver said:


> And your friend might be the better bargain when it's all said and done given his actions. She's still there and he's not, right?


Perfectly material to what you said. She's still there. Well OP didn't cheat on her did she? BH is not? Well she cheated on him didn't she?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Nice one... I laughed... but you've missed out some important bits, haven't you?





DownByTheRiver said:


> On that note, an old roommate of mine had a bf while living with me and then married him 3 years later.
> 
> Between the two of us we had a lot of friends and house guests. She also had her family in the area.
> 
> ...


Cool story bro


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DownButNotOut said:


> Perfectly material to what you said. She's still there. Well OP didn't cheat on her did she? BH is not? Well she cheated on him didn't she?


Nope. And nobody's friend makes them cheat unless they have had a lobotomy or something where they're very own brain is no longer operable. What nonsense.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No one wants absolute and unaccountable control over another adult for altruistic reasons. It’s a red flag.


Be sure you know you're not marrying a dictator.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

frenchpaddy said:


> both have cheated just we don't know how much he did , but his mother and sister thought it was fine to do


And that has what to do with the price of tea in China???

I’ll ask again - does the fact someone cheated in the past mean that they cannot have boundaries and standards and requirements to remain in a relationship? 

And that applies to her as well. She can choose the friend over him if she wants. 

If this is a bridge too far for her, she does have the right wish him well and head off to go out with Winnie.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> And that has what to do with the price of tea in China???
> 
> I’ll ask again - does the fact someone cheated in the past mean that they cannot have boundaries and standards and requirements to remain in a relationship?
> 
> ...


 Even if that person is a woman the way this debate is twisting I would not be suprised if someone comes on and will say it is his duty to pick her friends , and make her have stick an A TO HER DRESS


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Livvie said:


> She's not going out to bars with the single friend. She went to her sister's house for her sister's birthday, drank too much so spent the night in her sister's guest bedroom. Wild, right? 🤣 Her best friend just happened to be there. Said friend was actually taking care of OP and make her some food etc.


Well, if you re-read the OP's description, the husband came to pick her up the next morning, and he didn't get upset until he found out that the friend was there. So, the issue is NOT that she was drinking at her sister's home, the issue is that the friend is still hanging around.... a friend that the husband believes has some responsibility in the cheating. (OP says friend is not responsible, BUT if husband believes otherwise and is actually correct, then his response is actually quite reasonable.)

As I posted before, this is really an issue of a failed reconciliation. It's clear that the OP is minimizing her cheat (calling it "experimented"), and has never said that she did anything to address her issues that led to the cheat. Furthermore, since the cheating occurred just a couple of months before their wedding (90 days ago), that's just not enough time to make any changes through Individual Therapy to resolve her personality and boundary issues that caused the cheating. So there is NO WAY this can be anything other than rugsweeping. And, despite what the OP says, I am not convinced that the OP's friend is really blameless or, at the very least, risk-free as a friend for the OP if she values her marriage. If she will minimize her cheating, it is probable that she will minimize the friend's impact/contribution to the cheating (as I will explain in my next post).


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Because they don’t want to get it.
> And it’s usually the same handful of folks who seem to have a reflexive, predetermined narrative around a man enacting marital boundaries.


That's something they decide together, not just him deciding it for her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> You do realize you can’t win an argument against irrational, emotionally reactive projections, right?


Like this one!


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

LoveisKind said:


> He feels like I'm just sticking up for her and a real friend wouldn't condone or allow the situation to happen. My feelings is that I'm an adult and I made the decision and even when she did express her discontent with me and her friend sleeping together, I did it anyway.





Livvie said:


> Cheating was with a woman. The friend didn't know about it until after the fact and then discouraged it.


OK, @Livvie , the above quote by the OP seems to contradict your contention that the friend didn't know about it until after the fact. The OP says that the friend, "expressed her discontent with (them) sleeping together" and she "did it anyway." That sounds to me that the friend had FOREKNOWLEDGE that the OP intended to sleep with the gay woman, and expressed her discontent (whatever that means---it doesn't necessarily means she was against OP cheating, it can also mean she didn't want to disrupt the friendship dynamic between the three of them), and the OP "DID IT ANYWAY" (her words).

That quote by the OP also tends to underscore just how much she is minimizing her cheating. This was not a drunken one-night action with out-of-character behavior fueled by alcohol. This must have been planned ahead of time for the friend to "express discontent". It was intentional. This is more than a spur-of-the-moment "experimentation".

These are the issues not being addressed by the OP. That's why this is a failed reconciliation, not a "controlling abuser". 
The foreknowledge by the friend, the intentional cheating, makes me unsure that the friend is completely blameless. 

Also, if her best friend is still friends with the lesbian Affair Partner, then if OP still socializes with the friend, at some point she may interact again with the Affair Partner. If the OP stays away from the best friend, then it is easier to also cut off all future contact with the Affair Partner.

Let's use an analogy. Suppose your spouse has a problem with drug use. She thinks she can avoid it now and avoid future use, but hasn't gone through rehab. Her best friend has several male friends she hangs with who are drug dealers, who have supplied your spouse in the past. Even if that friend told your spouse "don't use drugs", wouldn't you still be concerned if your spouse wants to hang with her friend that runs in social circles with drug dealers?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's something they decide together, not just him deciding it for her.


Actually, no, HE decides what HE can live with for boundaries. If she doesn't agree, then the relationship is over, and his option is to leave. 

Which is exactly what he did. He left. The "abuse/control" he exercised was not physical abuse, etc. It was the only option that anyone has when there is a non-negotiable boundary that the other person doesn't respect. You leave the relationship. That's not "abuse". That's exercising his option to decide what he can live with. 

Otherwise, if leaving is "control/abuse", by your criteria, SHE would be the one controlling HIM by saying "I cheated on you, but these are the parameters behavior parameters I am willing tolerate if you want to stay married to me." SHE doesn't get to decide what HE will have to live with after her cheating.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, when you are around Winnie, bad things have happened within the last year or so. You had an A with a friend she introduced you to, and now you are passing out drunk and she’s not helping you. I see your husbands point. Winnie is bad news for you and your marriage.


How? OP is an adult. Winnie is not responsible for OP's actions. OP even said that Winnie tried to talk her out of cheating with Alice but OP didn't listen.

We are all adults are we not?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

frusdil said:


> How? OP is an adult. Winnie is not responsible for OP's actions. OP even said that Winnie tried to talk her out of cheating with Alice but OP didn't listen.
> 
> We are all adults are we not?


If Winnie contributed/supported the A (she introduced them), she’s got to go. However, most men would not have married OP in this scenario. It’s a big mistake all around. She was selfish to have an A, and she’s still selfish now by choosing Winnie over her husband, whom she has kids with. Everyone would be happier in the long run when they split for good and OP and Winnie can have their own version of Thelma and Louise.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Actually, no, HE decides what HE can live with for boundaries. If she doesn't agree, then the relationship is over, and his option is to leave.
> 
> Which is exactly what he did. He left. The "abuse/control" he exercised was not physical abuse, etc. It was the only option that anyone has when there is a non-negotiable boundary that the other person doesn't respect. You leave the relationship. That's not "abuse". That's exercising his option to decide what he can live with.


It’s what’s known as boundaries.

I think I remember seeing people here say that BS’s need to establish and maintain boundaries. 

Yes, I’m sure i remember seeing that mentioned before.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> I understood the birthday party to be the last straw for the husband. I am not saying it's right for him to forbid her from having friends or a good time but there has to be some balance on her side too. If he "always" stays home but she "never" stays home with him what does that say?
> 
> I don't see the big deal about sleeping at the sister's house but since it hurt DH's feelings, I offered suggestions to prevent a repeat -- transportation arrangements in advance & contact throughout the festivities should ward off the pouting. If it doesn't that is a different kettle of fish altogether.


That he stays home and she doesn't just says that he doesn't like to go out and have fun and she does. I have a very close friend who had the same problem.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Like this one!


Apparently you don’t understand the definition of a projection. 
Nowhere in this thread have I projected my own emotionally based assumptions onto the situation.
Nowhere have I bashed or assigned any nefarious motives to OP, husband, or friend.

All I (and many others) have said here is that OP’s husband has a rational, understandable and defensible position and wanting to limit this one particular friends influence on his wife/marriage.

And that there is no compelling evidence at this point that he is controlling, abusive, or that he ever will be.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

LoveisKind said:


> He just said he doesn’t want me hanging with her anymore.* No complaints that I party or drink too much, I honestly don’t. It was my sisters birthday and we were at her home. We weren’t at a bar or club. And he has no complaints about my other friend who lives out of State.. it’s just Winnie bc he feels she is responsible for the affair and I feel she wasn’t.*





D0nnivain said:


> I don't see the big deal about sleeping at the sister's house but since it hurt DH's feelings, I offered suggestions to prevent a repeat -- transportation arrangements in advance & contact throughout the festivities should ward off the pouting. If it doesn't that is a different kettle of fish altogether.


Read what the OP posted, which I quoted above. The issue is NOT that she went to her sister's to celebrate the birthday. The issue is that she went WITH THE FRIEND THAT THE HUSBAND BELIEVES IS TOXIC TO THE MARRIAGE.

There's another post in this thread where she specifically says that when the husband came to pick her up the next morning, he didn't get upset until he discovered the toxic best friend was there.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's something they decide together, not just him deciding it for her.


No, she doesn’t get a vote on his boundaries.

It’s up to him to decide what his boundaries are, and it’s up to her to decide whether or not she is willing to abide them.
And vice versa.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> If Winnie contributed/supported the A (she introduced them), she’s got to go. However, most men would not have married OP in this scenario. It’s a big mistake all around. She was selfish to have an A, and she’s still selfish now by choosing Winnie over her husband, whom she has kids with. Everyone would be happier in the long run when they split for good and OP and Winnie can have their own version of Thelma and Louise.
> 
> View attachment 89266


Winnie did not support the affair. OP said so earlier.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

frusdil said:


> Winnie did not support the affair. OP said so earlier.


Yes, OP said so. Husband, however, disagrees. Since the OP already shows that she minimizes the affair (as I have posted), hasn't done what is needed to confront her personal issues that led to the cheating, seems to have been more deliberate/intentional on her cheating, etc., I (and others) think the best friend/Winnie MAY have more responsibility than OP is admitting (even admitting to herself). Therefore, the "IF" in RebuidlingMe's comment is appropriate. He is not saying that the best friend/Winnie necessarily did contribute to the affair, he is just saying "IF she did, then....".

Honestly, this whole situation is one of a false reconciliation, and the marriage is doomed because of that, in my opinion.

And whatever you believe is the truth about the best friend, it's a bad situation.

IF the best friend is indeed dangerous to the marriage at some level, then the OPs refusal to cut off that danger to the marriage means she's not willing to do what it takes to heal the marriage from her cheating, this is a false reconciliation, the marriage is doomed, and they ought to go their separate ways. (And it is in the the husband's best interest to leave, as he is doing.)

However, if the best friend is ABSOLUTELY NO THREAT TO THE MARRIAGE (which in my opinion is unlikely, even in an indirect/passive manner, as I posted using the drug addict/friend with a social circle of drug dealers analogy, but for the sake of argument, let's say NO THREAT), it's still bad. Because that would mean the husband is: a) not willing to face the fact that his cheating wife has enough boundary/personality issues that she did this entirely of her OWN accord, b) that to date she has NOT done the steps (individual therapy, etc.) required to correct those issues, c) that their wedding occurred a ridiculously short time after the cheating which would not allow for the required time for real healing and change, and d) that rather than face these truths he is trying to pin it all on an innocent party in order to rugsweep it all, try to go forward under false pretenses, and have a false reconciliation which will doom his marriage anyway. So again, they're better off going their separate ways now, and again it's in the husband's best interest to leave now, as he is doing.

So, by my reckoning, whether the friend is as innocent as the OP states or as responsible as the husband seems to believe, any way you cut it, this is still a false reconciliation and the marriage is doomed.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Yes, OP said so. Husband, however, disagrees. Since the OP already shows that she minimizes the affair (as I have posted), hasn't done what is needed to confront her personal issues that led to the cheating, seems to have been more deliberate/intentional on her cheating, etc., I (and others) think the best friend/Winnie MAY have more responsibility than OP is admitting (even admitting to herself). Therefore, the "IF" in RebuidlingMe's comment is appropriate. He is not saying that the best friend/Winnie necessarily did contribute to the affair, he is just saying "IF she did, then....".
> 
> Honestly, this whole situation is one of a false reconciliation, and the marriage is doomed because of that, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


It's a bit of pot, kettle, black here though, the husband also cheated so they're both guilty.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

frusdil said:


> It's a bit of pot, kettle, black here though, the husband also cheated so they're both guilty.


Well, they may be guilty, but these are not equally relevant. There are no details given about the husband’s transgressions, except that his mother and sister “condoned” it. We don’t know if it was an emotional affair, a physical one, whether the husband did what was needed for true reconciliation, whether it was rugswept or anything. Did the mother/sister ”condone” the affair because the OP was behaving particularly badly to the husband at that time (not that it excuses it, but may explain their reaction)? Was it so long ago, that they successfully dealt with it? I don’t know. All it seems is that it doesn’t seem to be a particular issue in their relationship at this time. 

So, I can’t see how anyone, including you, can assign any sort of equivalency to these two infidelities without any information as to whether they were truly equivalent, or at least present equivalent active stresses to the relationship at this time. If it was rugswept and is still an issue under the surface, well, that just makes their marriage even more of a dumpster fire and again, and they need to part ways.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I guess, it all boils down to the interpretation of "enabling" the affair. The OP says her friend just introduced them and did nothing to support or enable the affair. The husband doesn't think so and he is forbidding his wife to see her best friend. We only have the OP's version of the fact. If it's true that Winnie didn't enable the affair, then the husband is wrong with his demands, if it's true, then he is right. But we don't know this. Some posters don't want to believe the OP, and that's their prerogative, but this pointless debating seems a massive waste of time to me. If you don't believe the OP, then there is no point in debating anything.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I guess, it all boils down to the interpretation of "enabling" the affair. The OP says her friend just introduced them and did nothing to support or enable the affair. The husband doesn't think so and he is forbidding his wife to see her best friend. We only have the OP's version of the fact. If it's true that Winnie didn't enable the affair, then the husband is wrong with his demands, if it's true, then he is right. But we don't know this. Some posters don't want to believe the OP, and that's their prerogative, but this pointless debating seems a massive waste of time to me. If you don't believe the OP, then there is no point in debating anything.


The husband may be wrong about Winnie’s degree of culpability. 

Does a BS have to be completely right about something in order to have a boundary about it? 

Does a BS have to prove someone’s guilt and be accurate in the degree of its involvement in an affair in order to be concerned about it? 

Even if he is wrong about Winnie, does that mean she should disregard his concerns and keep going out drinking and partying all night with her?

As Wolfman is saying above, this is a floundering or even failing reconciliation. They need to address a lot of issues. 

Whether he is right or wrong about Winnie, he is obviously concerned about her to the degree he is packing bags. So whether he is off base or if she is telling the truth, it doesn’t matter because it’s something that needs to addressed if they want to remain together either way.

This is one of the ramifications of having an affair.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> The husband may be wrong about Winnie’s degree of culpability.
> 
> Does a BS have to be completely right about something in order to have a boundary about it?
> 
> ...


The husband has no proof of anything. He is doing what he is doing because of his insecurities. He doesn't trust his wife and he is accusing her best friend of enabling the affair, which is BS. It seems they are not compatible, so maybe going separate ways is the best thing to do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> The husband has no proof of anything. He is doing what he is doing because of his insecurities. He doesn't trust his wife and he is accusing her best friend of enabling the affair, which is BS. It seems they are not compatible, so maybe going separate ways is the best thing to do.


BS’s have insecurities. That comes as part of the affair package. If something is an insecurity, does that mean the WS should disregard it if they want to reconcile?

But let’s look at the role between the BS and and an associate of the WS.

At MINIMUM we know that Winnie is a mutual friend of and introduced the AP to the WW. 

AND she had for knowledge of the impending affair and did not warn the BH of it.

AND she did not tell the H about the affair after it occurred.

To a BS, that means that she was complicit and a coconspirator. Period.

We can argue about her degree of culpability here on TAM and argue over whether it actually contributed to the affair or not. 

But to a BS, the fact that someone knew and did not stop it and did not come to them about it forever paints them as a conspirator whether they truly deserve that title or not.

He does not have to “prove” her guilt or culpability to have a beef against her.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> Unless your husband is actively trying to isolate you from other friends and family, then he’s not being controlling


Being controlling isn't just about isolating the victim.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

This marriage is a train wreck. There's distrust and cheating on both sides. Your husband's ultimatum is the tip of the proverbial iceberg, and you not speaking to your affair partner is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 

At the very least get a grip on your out of control drinking. It's irresponsible behavior for a wife and a mother of young children. Well it's irresponsible behavior period but your situation makes it much worse.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> BS’s have insecurities. That comes as part of the affair package. If something is an insecurity, does that mean the WS should disregard it if they want to reconcile?
> 
> But let’s look at the role between the BS and and an associate of the WS.
> 
> ...


I don't agree... you can't stop your wife from seeing her best friends of many years (for dubious reasons) and expect a good marriage after that. It's never going to happen. It's better if they separate. I would.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I don't agree... you can't stop your wife from seeing her best friends of many years (for dubious reasons) and expect a good marriage after that. It's never going to happen. It's better if they separate. I would.


What is it you don't agree with from @oldshirt post? You may think the husband's ultimatum is misguided, but he still has a right to decide what he will and won't accept from a spouse. He isn't physically stopping her. He can't, it isn't within his power. He has simply told her give her up or I leave. That is his choice and she can make hers.

Is it reasonable to expect a good marriage after someone cheats regardless of making a demand about who you can and can't see? More often than not reconciliation is not promoted by anyone here, because so many know that it is never the same after infidelity. The BS is going to have triggers for a long time. Some of those trigger can seem very irrational to you or me, but it doesn't change the fact that a BS feels the way they do.

ETA: Waywards never fully think through all of the repercussions of their infidelity. It can impact them in more ways than they can imagine. Besides ruining their marriage it can also impact their friendships. It just shows how much collateral damage there can be.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m still stuck at why he married her after she’s “experimenting” with women during the engagement. I’d have dropped her like a bad habit. He put a ring on it. Now he’s correcting his mistake. He might not be totally stupid. OP is missing in action. Looks like he’s gone with the wind.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What is it you don't agree with from @oldshirt post? You may think the husband's ultimatum is misguided, but he still has a right to decide what he will and won't accept from a spouse. He isn't physically stopping her. He can't, it isn't within his power. He has simply told her give her up or I leave. That is his choice and she can make hers.
> 
> Is it reasonable to expect a good marriage after someone cheats regardless of making a demand about who you can and can't see? More often than not reconciliation is not promoted by anyone here, because so many know that it is never the same after infidelity. The BS is going to have triggers for a long time. Some of those trigger can seem very irrational to you or me, but it doesn't change the fact that a BS feels the way they do.
> 
> ETA: Waywards never fully think through all of the repercussions of their infidelity. It can impact them in more ways than they can imagine. Besides ruining their marriage it can also impact their friendships. It just shows how much collateral damage there can be.


Of course the husband has the right to decide what he will or won't accept from his spouse, but - to me - the fact that he is triggered is not a good reason to prohibit his wife from seeing her best friend. If he is triggered, that's his problem. I'm triggered by donuts, so dear wife you are not allowed to eat them or even get near one.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> OP is missing in action.


OP and Winnie probably booked a girls week away


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Of course the husband has the right to decide what he will or won't accept from his spouse, but - to me - the fact that he is triggered is not a good reason to prohibit his wife from seeing her best friend. If he is triggered, that's his problem. I'm triggered by donuts, so dear wife you are not allowed to eat them or even get near one.


No one can predict or understand what is going through the head of a BS. It may very well be very irrational. No different than someone that has anxiety over situations that you and I feel are completely normal. Seems nuts to us, but not to them.

If you know my story, my wife (GF at the time) cheated on me with her ex in the first month we started dating. Years later I was trigger by seeing her prom dress because she went to the senior prom with him in that dress. That even sounds a little crazy to me now as I type it, but I didn't have control over how it made me feel. The dress had nothing to do with the cheating. I asked her to get rid of it and she did.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m still stuck at why he married her after she’s “experimenting” with women during the engagement. I’d have dropped her like a bad habit. He put a ring on it. Now he’s correcting his mistake. He might not be totally stupid. OP is missing in action. Looks like he’s gone with the wind.


11 years together. 2 kids. Wedding invitations sent. Guests RSVPd. There was immense pressure to go through with it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Of course the husband has the right to decide what he will or won't accept from his spouse, but - to me - the fact that he is triggered is not a good reason to prohibit his wife from seeing her best friend. If he is triggered, that's his problem. I'm triggered by donuts, so dear wife you are not allowed to eat them or even get near one.


You’re simply. It getting it.

He does not want to remain in a marriage while she’s running around this chick staying out all night drunk and hooking up with other people.

I wouldn’t either.

He is not prohibiting her from anything and he is not saying who she can or cannot see.

He is stating a boundary for which he will no longer remain in the marriage.

It’s all her choice. 

He doesn’t need YOUR approval for his boundaries.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Can’t quote on my phone… it’s gone wrong 😊


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

His wife has already had one lesbian lover who happens to be good friends with her bestie. She has a drunken lesbian sex fest . Who’s to say her husband doesn’t think she might be doing the same with Winnie the smoo?
They’re drunk spending the night together?


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## wagon maker (Feb 27, 2020)

LoveisKind said:


> Thank you for this advice and for taking the time to recap what I wrote and try to understand. What you wrote is along the lines of what I’m going to do to resolve this. I hope it is successful.
> And just for an update, he was invited, I always ask him to come with me whenever I go somewhere but he said no, so I asked my friend to come with me. He doesn’t like to go out anymore. He’s a home body.


it seems your husband has aged beyond his years, u are still a vibrant women who likes to do things & he has chosen to stay home & probably sulk, it seems it isn't going to get any better as your marriage ages it might be time to get another guy


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

LoveisKind said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm having a major issue with my husband and my friend. My husband has presented me with an ultimatum.. pretty much him and my marriage or my friend. He says he wants a divorce if I'm going to continue to be her friend.
> 
> ...


Dump this friend listen to your husband, something is rotten in Denmark. Where his shoes. Know what is mutual submission means in the Bible. He leaves he is gone forever, and never sees his kids forever after 3 years. 
Trust me. Pray to God, about it. Let no man or woman put us asunder. Why is that a saying?


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

wagon maker said:


> it seems your husband has aged beyond his years, u are still a vibrant women who likes to do things & he has chosen to stay home & probably sulk, it seems it isn't going to get any better as your marriage ages it might be time to get another guy


You're woked,


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> The husband has no proof of anything. He is doing what he is doing because of his insecurities. He doesn't trust his wife and he is accusing her best friend of enabling the affair, which is BS. It seems they are not compatible, so maybe going separate ways is the best thing to do.


The husband has proof that that Winnie introduced his then fiancé to the affair partner. The husband has proof that his then fiancé used seeing Winnie to facilitate her affair. This is all the proof that he needs. 

The affair only happened a few months ago. It is perfectly normal that it takes a betrayed spouse a few months to decide on actions he will demand for reconciliation. The fact that the wife is still getting drunk and staying out over night with this friend only months after the affair, shows that the wife has not shown true remorse to the husband.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TRy said:


> The husband has proof that that Winnie introduced his then fiancé to the affair partner. The husband has proof that his then fiancé used seeing Winnie to facilitate her affair. This is all the proof that he needs.
> 
> The affair only happened a few months ago. It is perfectly normal that it takes a betrayed spouse a few months to decide on actions he will demand for reconciliation. The fact that the wife is still getting drunk and staying out over night with this friend only months after the affair, shows that the wife has not shown true remorse to the husband.


There is no proof Winnie enabled the affair.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> There is no proof Winnie enabled the affair.


There is proof Winnie in fact enabled the affair. What you mean to say is that there is no proof that she willingly enabled the affair, and to that I say it does not matter to the betrayed spouse. Without Winnie there is no affair.

There is also no proof that Winnie was against the affair. All we have is a proven cheater saying that Winnie was against, knowing that if she said otherwise to her betrayed spouse, she would certainly have to give Winnie up as a best friend. Again it really does not matter, but even if it did we do not have proof.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> There is no proof Winnie enabled the affair.


Does it really matter? She knew in advance that it was happening. If a BS said to the wayward they had to stop hanging around everyone that knew about the affair but didn't tell the BS, would that be an unreasonable condition for reconciliation?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> in all fairness she did not say much about her husbands cheating all so , she just said in one post that he had cheated , and in another she said his mother and sister excepted his cheating and know about it


Exactly. Did he have sex or make out with some girl? Was it 6 months into dating 10.5 yrs ago, as opposed to 5 months ago, 2 months before the wedding to her fiancee? We need more info.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

frusdil said:


> How? OP is an adult. Winnie is not responsible for OP's actions. OP even said that Winnie tried to talk her out of cheating with Alice but OP didn't listen.
> 
> We are all adults are we not?


That is when Winnie should have said, "If you go there, I'm telling your fiance"


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm out of this thread... it's getting ridiculous...


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I'm out of this thread... it's getting ridiculous...


This aint a freaking airport, there is no need to announce your departure.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Trident said:


> This aint a freaking airport, there is no need to announce your departure.


Unless you're Elvis!


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