# Finally Divorced



## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

those of you who have read my years of pain and misery, i just thought i would give you all an update of late. 

last year was the most miserable year. he put me thru so much pain. was not supporting me financial, emotional or physically. and still i held on. my bleeding heart syndrome would not let me give up on my husband even after all he has put me thru. {so much more then i even told you all in my past post}

the last 6 months was horrible. he started going out either friday or saturday and not coming home. i kept trying to "fix" him, support him, whatever. told him he was an alcoholic and he admits to that. and that alcoholism will destroy a family. told him that he needed to go to AA and he refused. saying that all the people he hangs around drink, and if they are all drinking what does that make him?

any how, every weekend he wasnt coming home. but on christmas day we go to mass. and both of us prayed for help with the marriage and for both of us to do the right thing. it was a good good day. back to the way it was in the beginning. and it lasted all of 4 days before he was back acting like an a$$hole.

cue in new years eve, i was working on a new cork floor in my kitchen with my nephews. he comes in and tries to start a fight. saying he thought we would be done already and the tile is ugly and just plain being mean and hateful. he did not offer to help and then went outside for a while. he came in and said he was going for wd40. i was like ok. my friend said he had some in the truck. my ex said he needed more then one can. i didnt catch on. i am a dumba$$ but my friend did. who has ever used more then one can of wd40 on any project? i was like idk. my ex left at 6:30ish 7 and did not return for the rest of the night. i started calling and texting at 8. by 1am i was packing his sh*t. i was nice about it, i folded everything {now i wished i burned it} i finished the divorce packet i got in september. and then i texted him at 7am jan 1 to come pick up his stuff. he did, snunk in and grabbed his boxes and tried to leave with out talking to me.

that day i scheduled an appointment with the notary to sign divorce papers. he never asked me what i put in them, he never asked me what we were going to do with the kids. he lied about not knowing the address where he was staying.

even then, i reached out to him weeks later. to see if he wanted to save 14 years of marriage. he at first said he did, but then he hooked up with some heartless crackhead (feb 9) and hasnt been the same since. SHE tells him what to think, SHE tells him what to say, SHE makes sure we do not spend a second of time alone together to talk. SHE makes all his decision and if he cant tell me the way she wants him to then SHE will call me herself to tell me. After i found out that he had a girlfriend (again, he has done this before when we were separated) i filed the divorce papers the next day. and our divorce was final march 20, 2014. 
4 days after my 46 birthday, which btw he texted me Happy BIrthday. 

i am still kinda shell shocked. it happened so fast. and sometimes i wonder how TF did i get here. divorced. makes my tummy roll just thinking that word. i would have held on forever, i was one of those women. i dont believe in divorce. i would have stood by my man thru thick and thin. but there is nothing you can do if the other person REFUSES to even try. and there is only is much a person can take.

i think he is weak and spineless and he has been pushing me and pushing me until i got tired. now he tells everyone it is my fault and i did this and i did that. i am so emotional, mentally, and psychically tired that i dont even care. ever once in a while he and his crack***** will go out of their way to make my life miserable. i dont play their games. i just usually ignore them. but it does hurt my heart.

i have been trying to do right for the 2 little boys. they are struggling with the divorce and they still want to see my ex. i think secretly they are hoping this is like the last time we separated for 2 years and that dad will come back home. neither one of them understand what divorce means. my ex does not call me to see the kids, i have to call him and schedule visitations and what not. of course he doesnt tell me anything but he tells the kids. in march before our divorce was even final i asked him not to bring the GF because the boys dont understand. (8 and 12) to please give them time to adjust and it was only 3 months ago they saw us kissing and loving. and if he takes controlling GF he cant give them 100% of his attention and he hasnt seen them for over a month. he couldnt do it. him and the gf just plotted behind my back and of course she was there. he didnt care if i got mad, he didnt care if i took the boys away. 

i am only trying to do what is right for the boys. everyone i talked too seems to have every other weekend visits. so that is what i have been doing for the past month and half. every other weekend i text him that he can pick up the boys on sunday. he works on saturdays. the youngest goes to church and catacism as we are going for his first holy communion. i cant rely on my ex to make sure to take him and the child can not miss any days. so i allow my ex to have the boys after catacism until dinnertime at 6. because i know he wont feed them either. he has expressed anger about the schedule and the fact that he only gets them for 2 to 4 hours but he never talks to me and he never says anything when i arrange it. it is only after he picks the kids up that he says anything at all, and i suspect that is his crackhead girlfriend telling him this that makes him mad at me.

i am just trying to move on and keep busy or i think i would go crazy. been divorced 6 weeks and the pain is still fresh. not for him thou, he has had no problem forgetting everything we had and all that i did for him. he is an a$$ about paying his child support and a jerk to me when i text him to come to a soccer game or something. 

but at least i am not his doormat anymore.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MrsVain said:


> those of you who have read my years of pain and misery, i just thought i would give you all an update of late.
> 
> last year was the most miserable year. he put me thru so much pain. was not supporting me financial, emotional or physically. and still i held on. my bleeding heart syndrome would not let me give up on my husband even after all he has put me thru. {so much more then i even told you all in my past post}
> 
> ...



You're doing really well, though I'm sorry you're here.
The next step for you is to stop mothering him and nagging him about your kids. He needs to support them for sure but his relationship with them is on him; do not call him anymore regarding visitation. Of course don't get in the way but it's not your problem, your business, or your place. Your boys will make their own decisions about their father, and frankly any chance he does have to grow up and be a father won't happen while you nag/enable him. Stop contacting him and eventually he'll call about the boys. I did this with my ex and he's a much better father for it.

I'm sure it doesn't seem like it now but he actually did you an enormous favor my walking out, since you wouldn't have done it. There's standing my your man but there's also being a clingy doormat that won't go away even when a spouse has made it clear they don't want them. You can now regain your dignity and self respect. Good luck.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

thank you for responding. 

the only reason i contact him about the visitation is because i schedule the visits. in the divorce i asked for and got sole custody and zero visitation. the only reason i did that is because of his substance and alcohol abuse and to protect the children if necessary. i thought i knew this man come to find out i dont. so part of me thinks he will never do anything to hurt the children but in the past he has had them with him while he drives drunk. he has had them blow in his breathalizer machine to start his truck. so i am not convinced he wouldnt do something that would harm them during a visitation. 

i dont have to let him see the children at all. but since the children themselves express the desire to see their dad i schedule weekend visits. like i said before he works sat so there is only sunday. since there is a lot going on on sundays so it is a day by day schedule or 2 week by 2 week schedule. which is why i have to contact him. 

i have waited to do this sometimes until the sat before the sun of his visit. he never calls or texts me. it is like he doesnt even care if i schedule visits. my texts go something like this "u can pick up the kids on 4.27.14 2:00 to 5:00" and then "kids have a class at 5:30 so they need to be home at 5". he usually just texts back "k" 

i used to text him to pay his child support but i dont do that any more. so that is usually all the contact we have. if he doesnt like the schedule then he will tell the kids something. i have tried many times to get him to come over so we can work out a schedule and get it on paper but he refuses so i tell him not to complain since he cant even work this out. 

sometimes the older child doesnt want to go, but i make him go anyway. the youngest stilll thinks dad is superman but the older one is seeing him for what he really is. on top of that my ex favors the youngest child and the older one thinks his dad doesnt love him. i see jealous and anger from the older one to the younger one because my ex favors the younger. i am not sure what to do about it.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree you are doing very well under the circumstances and he did you a favor. Kids 8 and 12 should know exactly what divorce is. They have friends whose parents are divorced, no doubt. They may not understand the adult issues that go into such a decision, however.

My ex was abusive and narcissistic - no empathy or understanding nor did he try. He blamed me for the divorce and didn't hold back discussing this stuff with our daughter. I was struggling financially and was directed to United Family Services, a division of United Way. They work on a sliding scale based on income and also accept most insurance. I opted for family counseling (vs. IC) because I was trying to help her understand what was going on, and wanted to improve my parenting skills, good co-parenting practices, give her a place to open up about her feelings, etc. Sometimes I went alone, sometimes kiddo talked to her alone, sometimes we both went and the LCSW helped direct the communication in an emotionally safe way. It was IMMENSELY helpful. 

I suggest you do the same. It will help the boys with their feelings about this, toward each other, toward you... you will learn age appropriate ways to address issues with them and get a little closure yourself with some of the marital issues.

It's nice you want to foster a good relationship. It's amazing how well kids do adjust. I do think you should pursue support. It's for the boys. Even if you can get by without it, put it into savings for them. It's for THEM. Don't deny them the benefit of it. Don't remind him, have it ordered that he has to pay it and follow through with your state to make sure it's garnished if he doesn't pay voluntarily. If not, some day you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't make him contribute financially to the raising of his kids.


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## COfan (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm so sorry for your pain. Hugs!


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

thank you for that. you have NOoooOOo idea how that means to me to hear i am doing the right thing. he has this way of twisting everything i say and do that sometimes i dont even know myself anymore. 

so far i have no other contact with him except for the visitations. i am trying to come up with some kind of schedule so i dont even have to do that either. my kids usually go to my parents house for summer and then jump back and forth between their house and my house all summer long. it will be hard to schedule visitations during all that being as we usually do it on a day by day basis. if the children miss home then they come home, if they dont then they stay. my parents have cows and horses and things, they are big on work ethestic and keep the boys busy and the boys love it. my dad is usually always building something and teaches the boys how to do things. it is good place for them to be.

i think i am doing all that i can since it has all fallen on me to make all the decisions. it has been 6 weeks since our divorce was final. now my head knows what to do, but i have to still convince my heart that it is over and not to care what my ex is doing. some days i just cry all day but those days are getting fewer and farther apart.

i try to just focus on my kids, but sometimes i dont know what the f*ck i am doing. haha. life really sucks. i am super unhappy but at least it is a different unhappy then what my ex was putting me thou. even my 12 year told me that d*d is not my problem anymore, he is his new girlfriends problem. that really hit home to me. out of the mouths of babies. 

thing is i am not sure what is best for the children. since i know my ex is now on drugs, he still is an alcoholic and still as narcissistic as ever. how do i protect my kids from that sh*t? when he is treating one kid better then the other kid. when he tells them their mom is doing this and that to get them mad at me. when he puts them in bad situations and i dont even know about it.

i usually have a mini breakdown every time he comes to pick them up. i have never not known what my children are doing. even when they go to a friends house, i know who, what, where, why and when. my ex doesnt think he needs to tell me what they do when they are with him, and if i tell them something needs to be done he just ignores me and does what he wants anyway.

co-parenting with him will be impossible. he is more of a child then the children. if i try to explain things to him, he just blows up and blames me and does what he wants anyway. i dont know how to handle that? what is the best thing


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, I'm not a parent, let alone a divorced parent who's had to try to co-parent with an ex as problematic as yours. So maybe others can offer their take on my idea here.

You have sole custody (for very good reason), and you've expressed a great deal of anxiety over the safety of your children while they are with their father. I think it would be reasonable for you to only agree to supervised visits, supervised by a neutral adult that you trust, so you don't have to worry about the children. Would that be feasible? If you still have a decent relationship with his parents and/or siblings, they might be willing to help.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

no his family is even more messed up then he is. which was always one of our fights. i dont talk or see any of his family and wouldnt trust them anymore then i trust him. 

he likes to be the victim so he never tells me anything when i schedule the visit. he like to tell the children that i am screwing him over on the visits but like i said he never asks for visits or complains about the times that i schedule for him. 

i felt like i was being fair with the visitations especially since i legally am not obligated to allow any visitations. my boys do miss their dad but they are now starting to see his true colors too. all 3 of us are confused as to why he is acting his way. this is all new attitude from him, a completely different person then the man we knew but since there is nothing i can do, i only want to do what is the best for the boys.

i do not think he is using when he has the boys but i am not sure. currently all i do is make sure my 12 year old has my cell phone so that he can call home if anything happens. last weekend, while they were watching a movie, my ex decided it was a great time to work on a messed up electrical plug (he only got them that day from 2-5 due to the boys church and church classes and my ex works saturdays so basically 3hours), he ended up throwing the breaker and tv turned off and kids thought it was funny when they were telling me. i didnt say anything to the kids but i was thinking who does that kind of crap? lets see he only got the kids for 3hours, he couldnt wait to fix the plug after his visit? first thing i thought was he was tweeking and couldnt sit still. he stupidly did not shut off the breaker, what would have happened if he electrocuted and died? 

everything i thought i knew about him apparently has either been a made up story in my head, or was a lie. so i am having a hard time figuring out what to do or even say about the boys visiting him. i usually take my cues from the boys and they still want to see him.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I thought I smelled narcissism. In this type of dynamic, it is best to have a parallel parenting plan vs. a co-parenting plan. It takes the guesswork out of it. It's still not easy but so much better for the kids. 

It IS hard to not know. But that's something you have to let go of. He is their Dad and when they are with him, that's not your business unless you find out he's doing drugs or driving drunk with them. If he wants to do chores instead of spend quality time, so be it. They'll appreciate your father even more. And if something happens, you can either supply a cell phone or tell them who they can go to - next door neighbor to call cops, etc. if there is an emergency. So as to not paint him incompetent, talk to them about what to do if something happened to you, too. You could slip on a wet floor and crack your skull - kids need to know to call 911 and/or to run to a trusted neighbor.

Check out this link:
Dr. Craig A. Childress :: Parental Alienation

I realize it says it's about parental alienation but bottom line is it's about narcissists and bi-polar disorders, why they are like they are, how it affects a family dynamic, how they react to divorce and why as well as how to minimize the impact on kids. There are lots of .pdf sub documents. Yes, he will likely pick one - the golden child - to be his favorite. There are great ideas for communication strategies in there.

Divorce Poison by Dr. Warshack is great for focusing on ways to keep kids out of the middle. Doesn't mean your ex is going to cooperate but it will give you good ideas on ways to address things diplomatically with the kids.

Also highly recommended is The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family by Eleanor Payson. Regardless of the "diagnosis", this is a one-way relationship.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

i have been reading up on co-parenting, haven't heard of parallel parenting. i will look it up. keep in mind that i actually have sole custody and zero visitation. i just know my boys want to see him. 

yes, he has some narcissistic behavior, also passive aggressive, gas lighting, bad childhood, abandonment issues, on top of alcoholic and substance abuse. and i loved him anyway. guess that is why it hurts so bad. 

he wasnt "doing chores" he was tweeking and unable to sit still 
and focus on the children. there is a difference between fixing the house and doing stupid careless sh*t because your brain is fried. and yes, we talk scenarios all the time from the time they are little, i have just added more scenarios now. 

i have been reading on narcissists behavior and from his point of view relationship are all or nothing and i am in the nothing side now. after 14 years. we have only been divorced 6 weeks so ya, i am still struggling myself but currently i am in a numb state. that is the only way i can describe it. he has hurt me so much, and my heart hurts so much that it just shut down and i am nothing. i am sick of hearing people defend him, especially since he is too weak to stand up for himself. i was his first defense and always supported him. believe me, i have gone around in circles with the "he is their dad" and "they need to be with him" sh*t. i am probably more fair to him on that issue then he will be to me since he loves to bad mouth me.

as a narcissist, he picks the younger one because the youngest is still in dad is a hero and great guy stage. the older one is seeing more of the a$$hole he really is, has been for the past couple of years. the youngest one is still in the "i want to go with dad" stage where the older one realizes that going with dad means you cant talk, you cant change the radio, you cant ask questions. you just drive in silence with the radio blasting ears off. it will take a few years yet before the youngest sees it also. 

i do not talk about my ex, or my feelings about my ex, or the pain my ex causes me to the children. i have my mom and my sister for that. however, i have taken to answering the childrens questions honestly and no longer cover up for him. but also answered age appropriate. i used to back him up (even some of his craziness and then talk to him later about it), i would make the boys respect him and still do. they are not allowed to bad mouth him even thou what they are saying is true. {It was a jerk thing for him to do when he left us...He really IS mad all the time and you cant talk to him...and he REALLY does like to talk to other people more then he pays attention to the kids} i let them say it and then i tell them that is enough, not to bad mouth him. the boys only respected him because i taught them to respect him. not the other way around.

thank you for the links and other suggestions. i will read them also.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

FeministInPink...i have been reading your story and it sounds alot like mine.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

If he is now hanging out with a cr*ckhead girlfriend, it sounds like he is probably on cr*ck himself. All the more reason to figure a way to have supervised visits. I would NOT let him drive them in an alcoholic, cr*ck-jacked state.

Also, can you get your boys an inexpensive cell phone to carry with them at all times so they can call you if they need you?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> FeministInPink...i have been reading your story and it sounds alot like mine.


Except without the kids and the drug abuse (though I do think my XH has some alcohol abuse issues). I don't know too much about your story, aside from what's here, so I'm not able to draw comparison.

I agree with Enj, he sounds like a narcissist - all those other behaviors you mention come with the narcissism. Enjoli has a really good perspective on this, so I would definitely recommend taking her advice.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Get a ledger and document all concerns you have about his parenting with dates and times. 

I don't think I would facilitate the visits if he his hanging with a crack head.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

well, they both assured me that they do not use drugs. Right. because both of them are so honest and never lie. 

so far all i can do is wait. like i mentioned before. i do not think that he would do anything in front of the kids. I do not think he would purposely harm the children. AND just and FYI, i did not LET him drive with the children if he was drinking. i only found out about it later (usually from the children) that he did this until after the fact. and believe me i gave him my 2 cents worth about having my kids blow in that stupid dwi machine. 

my boys love him and miss him. they really want him to come back home. i know they need to see him. so i am trying to work something out for everyone. i would be perfectly fine without having him around my boys, i do not approve of the people he has been hanging around lately and i do not want my children subjected to that kind of loser/victim attitude and low life living. i want more and better for my kids. turns out, he is really a little spineless backstabbing weasel. huh who knew. he allows his girlfriend to do all the thinking and talking for him. makes me so mad because she really does not care about having his kids around. she just tells he stuff to get him mad at me. and he lets her. that women doesnt even have her own kids, she doesnt even watch or take care of her own children, she would rather not have the responsibility of raising a child. she d*mn sure does not want to raise my children.

anyhow. yes. when my kids go on visitations. i give my oldest my cell phone and have programmed the house phone in as 1. i have told the oldest he needs to pay more attention of street signs. at least notice where they are so he can call me if anything happens. but since visitations are only a few hours on sunday still it is just a precaution really. i dont know what i am going to if the visitation are longer then that. so far he hasnt asked for longer visits just complains that they are not long enough. the boys have church obligations on sundays, and the ex works on saturdays so it is what it is right now.

i do not trust him or the girlfriend to allow visits during the week or overnight visits. of course the ex hasnt requested anything like that either. and i am d*mn sure not going to suggest it. 

it shocks the heck out of me, because he wasnt really like this when we were together. or at least was better at keeping it out of our lives. i totally do not know this person he has turned into now and i am not sure what to do about it. it hurts me to watch the person i love destroy himself, make poor choices and act like a fool. but no matter how much i love him or how much it hurts me, there is nothing i can do about it and i just have to protect my boys. which in turns makes him mad and hurt that i would think that he could hurt his boys. this sucks no matter what i do, it sucks.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I agree with indiecat -- document, document, document.

And if the visits can't be supervised, at least the oldest one is prepped in case something bad happens.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

well, in all actually there doesnt have to be visits scheduled at all. i asked for and got sole custody and zero visitation. i am just doing this for the boy, and until the boys no longer want to do it.

i asked around and everyone i asked said every other weekend. but there is nothing in our divorce papers that state he gets any visitations at all. every other weekend, no saturday since he works, no overnights since he is dating a meth head and lives in a one br apartment. so just a few hours on sunday. i think i can deal with that. until something changes my mind

and yes, the 12 year old is prepared and has things explained to him in detail.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

FeministInPink i read some of your earlier posts. i also reread some of mine and ouch! i was pathetic to hold on to this loser.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> FeministInPink i read some of your earlier posts. i also reread some of mine and ouch! i was pathetic to hold on to this loser.


Me, too. I've been doing a lot of self-examination to figure out why I would do something that was so self-destructive, and I'm working on myself to fix these deficits.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> well, in all actually there doesnt have to be visits scheduled at all. i asked for and got sole custody and zero visitation. i am just doing this for the boy, and until the boys no longer want to do it.
> 
> i asked around and everyone i asked said every other weekend. but there is nothing in our divorce papers that state he gets any visitations at all. every other weekend, no saturday since he works, no overnights since he is dating a meth head and lives in a one br apartment. so just a few hours on sunday. i think i can deal with that. until something changes my mind
> 
> and yes, the 12 year old is prepared and has things explained to him in detail.


Just STOP with the whole visitation thing. HIS relationship with the kids is HIS responsibility, not yours. If they grow to hate him, well then, so be it. You have sole custody for a REASON. Your boys dont need to be in that disgusting environment he is providing. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Just STOP with the whole visitation thing. HIS relationship with the kids is HIS responsibility, not yours. If they grow to hate him, well then, so be it. You have sole custody for a REASON. Your boys dont need to be in that disgusting environment he is providing.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


3X has a good point. I know you're allowing visitation because the boys want it and you don't want to deprive them of their father, but children don't always know what's best for them. That's why they have parents.

And he's not really being a good role model or parent to them right now, is he? If you're worried or scared about what's happening while they are with him, I think that's very good reason to stop the visits. Your older son will understand, he clearly has a good grasp on the situation; the younger one might be upset, but he'll understand it better when he's older.

A man who would willingly drive drunk with his children in the car doesn't deserve the leeway that you're giving him.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Both of you have a very good point. i have always been more then fair to this guy and he has always been nothing but a jerk. and even thou he just up and leaves us, leaves me with a bunch of unpaid bills and a mess to clean up inside and outside the house and with the kids. jumps into a relationship with some crazy meth head girlfriend who doesnt even have custody of her own kids and feels she needs to remind me daily that he is hers now, and it is over between us no matter what i am trying to talk to him about. i am still trying to be "fair". 

wth is wrong with me. in our marriage he was really good at twisting sh*t and making me feel guilty for acting the way i did. even thou the way i was acting was the way any NORMAL person would have acted if their husband stayed out all night, didnt answer phone calls or texts, doesnt say sorry and doesnt think he needs to explain where he was all night. he had a way of blaming me, and i would actually be trying to "change" to make him happy. i was really going crazy, thinking it was all my fault. i guess i am still doing the same thing.

ugh!!! i dont know why i feel like i have to be nice to him. this morning he asked me if he could take the kids to amarillo for his annual company picnic. he wants to drive up there on sat, get a hotel room and stay the night, then they are going to wonderland on sun (company pays) and he wants to takes the kids. this is scheduled for June 1. he actuallys tells me, you know how we did it last year. only this year i know he has no intention of inviting me, he will be taking her. and i wasnt comfortable having him watch our kids last year with me even there, i am certainly not comfortable with not being there and not being able to watch my kids, knowing he is not going to watch them either. they walked off in different directions last year when i was alert. i can just see them doing that this year, with him and her not alert. nope. not happening. so i told him to take his new girlfriend and her kids. that was the kind of family he wanted and he gave this family up. so far no response. but i know it is going to be my fault somehow.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

so why do i feel bad that i told him no, he cant take the kids?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

If he is truly a narc, then of course he'll blame you. They are blameless. 

You did the right thing. You are protecting your kids whether they know it or not. They can't be relied upon to look after themselves, ex doesn't even care enough to press for an official visitation schedule and his girlfriend isn't fit enough to be a part to HER kids. Nothing in this scenario would make me feel safe sending my kids with them.

Don't worry so much about fair as what is best. Sometimes what is best for the kids doesn't feel fair to the ex. It isn't about him (surprise - everything isn't about him - he won't get that) - it's about the boys' safety and well-being.

I think it's fair to tell the boys that Dad has an addiction to alcohol and that he hasn't gotten help for that, even though you asked him to before he left. You may say that because of his addiction, he doesn't always make good decisions about their safety and as much as you want them to have a good relationship with their father, their safety comes first. And that as long as Dad is sober, he can spend time with them.

Make them aware of the symptoms of impairment with instructions to contact you if he ever tries to drive them anywhere. The oldest can text you if they don't want to let Dad know they are doing this. The oldest will have to visit when the younger one does. The older one has to look out for his little brother. 

Emphasize that you really hope that Dad gets better soon. I wouldn't say anything about the girlfriend's drug problem unless there is proof such as a stint in rehab or an arrest. 

You may want to look up drugs on the internet and show the older one photos of needles, baggies with powders or rocks, spoons/lighters/pipes... and instruct the older son to photograph it with the phone if he ever sees that stuff. 

Keep reminding yourself - he left. He choose a different life and one that apparently didn't include you OR the kids since he wasn't interested in asserting parental rights. You don't owe him anything. If he wants to step up and get sober and be a father, that's great. But if not, he looses the right to see his boys.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> If he is truly a narc, then of course he'll blame you. They are blameless.
> 
> You did the right thing. You are protecting your kids whether they know it or not. They can't be relied upon to look after themselves, ex doesn't even care enough to press for an official visitation schedule and his girlfriend isn't fit enough to be a part to HER kids. Nothing in this scenario would make me feel safe sending my kids with them.
> 
> ...


Ditto. You absolutely did the right thing.

You feel bad because many women are socially conditioned to feel guilt/take blame for the happiness of others. Keep reminding yourself that his unhappiness with your decision is on HIM. HE has made poor choices in HIS life, and these are the consequences for his actions. You are keeping your babies safe, and that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. You're a Mama Bear, you're allowed to roar and not feel bad about it!


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

EnjoliWoman said:


> You did the right thing. You are protecting your kids whether they know it or not. They can't be relied upon to look after themselves, ex doesn't even care enough to press for an official visitation schedule and his girlfriend isn't fit enough to be a part to HER kids. Nothing in this scenario would make me feel safe sending my kids with them.


THank you SOOOOO much. you dont know how much i needed that. i was just about to have a nervous breakdown thinking i wasnt being right to him. this is exactly how i think. i mean, if she doesnt care enough to take care of her OWN kids how in the world is she going to take care of MY kids? and why in the world would a man want to be with a woman like that is beyond me.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Don't worry so much about fair as what is best. Sometimes what is best for the kids doesn't feel fair to the ex. It isn't about him (surprise - everything isn't about him - he won't get that) - it's about the boys' safety and well-being.


yes, i am sure he is going to blame me, and being as he will not even man up and come talk to me i will not be able to explain it to his understanding. not that i could have done that anyhow. And i was always super worried about "being fair" of course since he is always telling me that i am not. i constantly am checking and double checking my reactions, and thoughts, and decisions.



EnjoliWoman said:


> I think it's fair to tell the boys that Dad has an addiction to alcohol and that he hasn't gotten help for that, even though you asked him to before he left. You may say that because of his addiction, he doesn't always make good decisions about their safety and as much as you want them to have a good relationship with their father, their safety comes first. And that as long as Dad is sober, he can spend time with them.
> 
> Make them aware of the symptoms of impairment with instructions to contact you if he ever tries to drive them anywhere. The oldest can text you if they don't want to let Dad know they are doing this. The oldest will have to visit when the younger one does. The older one has to look out for his little brother.
> 
> ...


you are a GOD send. this is another very good idea. i have been struggling with all of this. neither one has actually admitted to me that they are on meth. but you know how small towns talk. and some people who have no reason to lie to me are telling me she is on meth. and i know my ex enough to know if she is using then he is using too. besides now that he is gone and i have gone thru and cleaned up the garage where he spent 97% if his time when he was home. always telling me he was cleaning it but you cant even walk in it. but i found little items that are super suspious and shouldnt be in a garage and are indicators of drug use. like a whole package of steel wool. which can be used as scrubbers, i use them on my pots. ironically i have none in the kitchen where i usually do. and he has a whole package in the garage. now there are many uses, like cleaning tools or cleaning rims. well all his tools and rims are filthy dirty so he didnt use it on that. however, it was open and i can see where on one it a piece was pulled off. right, ok so found out that crack/meth smokers use steel wool inside the glass pipe as a filter. now. i never found the pipe but you get the picture. i am pretty sure he is smoking meth/crack. he is too smart to tell me because that is the one thing he seems to remember me telling him, if i found out he was using drugs he would never see the boys again. 

so i have been struggling with this. and your suggestions are PERFECT. you have given me some light at the end of a dark, dark tunnel. thank you so much. and yes, i plan on bringing it up on the internet and so forth with the oldest. ironically i just told him that about his little brother the other day when they were walking to catch the school bus.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Keep reminding yourself - he left. He choose a different life and one that apparently didn't include you OR the kids since he wasn't interested in asserting parental rights. You don't owe him anything. If he wants to step up and get sober and be a father, that's great. But if not, he looses the right to see his boys.


YES!!! right again. he did not want to be a family. he did not want a loving wife and children who idolized him just because he was home and he was dad. he gave this up, not me. i fought for the marriage and everything else. he also wasnt interested in meeting or talking about the divorce papers, but d*mn sure came over drunk as h*ll to tell me i f*cked him over on it when he got his copy. he was perfectly fine with letting fill out the paperwork, take it to the courthouse and file it. and now feels like he has a right to complain because i took everything. he told me over and over he wanted nothing. now a month later, he is mad because he thinks he is going to pick up this old truck in the yard. i was like nope. it is mine on the divorce papers. you didnt show any interest in it the first 4 months when i was telling you to get what you wanted out of the yard. you didnt show any interest in it after the divorce went thru and you got your copy. but now that your girlfriend FINALLY got a job and has to walk to work, you think you are going to just come over and pick up the truck. sorry, but no. 

i actually DO NOT OWE HIM a single thing. i still dont understand how i let him get into my head. that is why i usually do not answer his phone calls. i have always loved his sexy voice. well i loved this man with all my heart. just now barely getting my head to convince my heart that he is not good for it. so ya, i try to avoid seeing him, cuz my silly little heart jumps and sings at the sight of him and i avoid talking to him for the same reason. i usually only try to send texts. he refuses to email and insists on calling. i think he is on to me. but lately i have been strong. when he calls and starts acting all nicey nicey, it puts me on my guard,,,then sure enough he wants something, he wants the truck, he wants the kids for an overnight in another town. etc

so i just hang up on him. well this morning i was able to still talk to him. telling him we will have to see when the time gets closer. my head was screaming NOOOOOOOOOO but i maintained a symbol of being rational at least. then i texted him to take his girlfriend and her kids since he choose her over us anyway. 

still no answer. he must be pissed.

thank you ladies. you are keeping me sane when he keeps trying to make me insane.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

FeministInPink said:


> Ditto. You absolutely did the right thing.


thank you. it does make me feel better know other people agree that i am making a good and right choice.



FeministInPink said:


> You feel bad because many women are socially conditioned to feel guilt/take blame for the happiness of others.


And because he has always twisted things and would blame me and was good enough that i actually would consider it and start to see things his way. if you know what i mean. have you ever heard of gas lighting? my ex was a pro at this.



FeministInPink said:


> Keep reminding yourself that his unhappiness with your decision is on HIM. HE has made poor choices in HIS life, and these are the consequences for his actions.


yes, this is a hard one for me apparently. after years of being made to feel like his happiness or unhappiness is a fault of mine or is my responsibility. i guess i keep thinking that way. my head is finally starting to think that it is his choice that has done this, that has caused all this pain and of course now he is unhappy. but that his unhappiness is not my fault or my responsibility. like the first thing he told me this morning was he got my text i sent last night about kids being at the doctors, and his phone is doing funny things but thats what happens when you throw it around or something like that. but i knew he was indicating that it was my fault he was throwing his phone cuz of some of the things i texted last weekend. i had to tell myself that i didnt do anything and if he got mad at my text then it was him not me. 

but it is still hard for me. like i said i loved this man so much. i am finally starting to get to the point where i feel like i dont have to do anything for him. it was second nature to me you see. i did things without even thinking because he was my husband and you just do that. i dont hate him, but i do feel sorry for him. he lost the best woman he will ever have. i truely believe i am the only one, including his family, sisters, cousins, and current girlfriend, that honestly cared and worried for him. they dont care if he jumps in his truck to drive even if he cant even walk. i was the only one that had the courage to actually tackle him and sit on him if needed to stop him. i tried to make him make himself better. tried to get him to go back to school, trade school whatever, in the end tried to get him in AA but he refused, i told him i would support him. but still nope. he actually told me "all my friends drink, everywhere i hang out they drink, what would that make me if i couldnt drink?"

anyhow i used to worry about him at first. where was he, was he doing drugs, was he driving drunk. i swear he used to pass by the house just so i could hear his truck and go frantic with worry. but now i just feel sorry for him. he doesnt have anyone who actually cares about him. 



FeministInPink said:


> You are keeping your babies safe, and that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING. You're a Mama Bear, you're allowed to roar and not feel bad about it!


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. i dont feel so bad about it now!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> And because he has always twisted things and would blame me and was good enough that i actually would consider it and start to see things his way. if you know what i mean. have you ever heard of gas lighting? my ex was a pro at this.


Yes, I've heard of it, and my XH did his fair share of gaslighting. Not to the extent of what I've seen discussed by others here on TAM, but he did. HE was even trying to do it when we were in counseling, before he moved out. The funny thing is that sometimes I think gaslighting is just as much about them trying to convince themselves that their own lies are true. :/



MrsVain said:


> yes, this is a hard one for me apparently. after years of being made to feel like his happiness or unhappiness is a fault of mine or is my responsibility. i guess i keep thinking that way. my head is finally starting to think that it is his choice that has done this, that has caused all this pain and of course now he is unhappy. but that his unhappiness is not my fault or my responsibility. like the first thing he told me this morning was he got my text i sent last night about kids being at the doctors, and his phone is doing funny things but thats what happens when you throw it around or something like that. but i knew he was indicating that it was my fault he was throwing his phone cuz of some of the things i texted last weekend. i had to tell myself that i didnt do anything and if he got mad at my text then it was him not me.
> 
> but it is still hard for me. like i said i loved this man so much. i am finally starting to get to the point where i feel like i dont have to do anything for him. it was second nature to me you see. i did things without even thinking because he was my husband and you just do that. i dont hate him, but i do feel sorry for him. he lost the best woman he will ever have. i truely believe i am the only one, including his family, sisters, cousins, and current girlfriend, that honestly cared and worried for him. they dont care if he jumps in his truck to drive even if he cant even walk. i was the only one that had the courage to actually tackle him and sit on him if needed to stop him. i tried to make him make himself better. tried to get him to go back to school, trade school whatever, in the end tried to get him in AA but he refused, i told him i would support him. but still nope. he actually told me "all my friends drink, everywhere i hang out they drink, what would that make me if i couldnt drink?"
> 
> anyhow i used to worry about him at first. where was he, was he doing drugs, was he driving drunk. i swear he used to pass by the house just so i could hear his truck and go frantic with worry. but now i just feel sorry for him. he doesnt have anyone who actually cares about him.


It's going to take a while to un-do all the damage and un-learn what he conditioned, so be easy on yourself. It's OK to feel sorry for him, but don't let that pity pull you back down. Don't allow the pity that you feel for him re-engage feelings of guilt and obligation; it's a real risk. In terms of self-preservation, cold indifference is sometimes better, but that's hard to do if you're an empathetic person.

But you seem to be doing much better than you were in your first post. Be strong, Mama Bear. This is kind of a roller coaster ride.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> THank you SOOOOO much. you dont know how much i needed that. i was just about to have a nervous breakdown thinking i wasnt being right to him. this is exactly how i think. i mean, if she doesnt care enough to take care of her OWN kids how in the world is she going to take care of MY kids? *and why in the world would a man want to be with a woman like that is beyond me.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad we were helpful. Just a few notes.

First, the bolded parts. He still occupies a LOT of time in your head. You are rolling this around over and over. Been there - I understand. What I have learned is that you really need to stop. Stop analyzing, double checking, pondering his reactions... every time you catch yourself doing this STOP and tell yourself it doesn't matter/it's not your problem.

As to the text/phone - text him that you feel it's better to have a written record of anything you two discuss and agree to so there is no confusion or misunderstanding (it's also to document but he doesn't need to know) and in the future you will not accept phone calls. If he wants a response he will have to text or email. So what if he doesn't like emails? Not your problem. (been there! - had it put in the order!)

Now, how to actually do that? Write down "no more calls from ex" or do it in code if you need to, a la "just say no". Take a photo with your phone and use it as your background. Every time the phone rings and it's him you'll see that and not answer. If he calls from a different number to get through, you can use that screen to prompt you to say "I told you I wasn't going to take calls. Please text/email, goodbye", then save it and mark it as another of his numbers. And of course don't answer private calls. If friends or family has a private number, explain to them that they will have to leave a voice mail and why you are screening.

Lastly, when you talk to the boys about their Dad (and I think you are) stick to the truth. Truth isn't bashing or belittling. In fact, phrasing his "illness" in those terms is as pleasant a way to speak about it as one can. No speculating on what he does you can't prove or the woman or any other aspect of his parenting. Just stick to the drinking and safety. If he drinks he can't drive to the hospital if one of them gets hurt. Don't make it sounds as if Dad is dangerous himself - only that his actions when under the influence might end up being unsafe. You don't want them to fear Dad - you want them to fear Dad doing things while drinking.

Keep focusing on what is good for you and the boys and keep reminding yourself of that.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

FeministInPink said:


> But you seem to be doing much better than you were in your first post. Be strong, Mama Bear. This is kind of a roller coaster ride.


i have my days. i still cry every once in a while. i still feel hopeless because i lost him and my marriage ended. i mean it has only literally been a few months. but i tell you , yesterday was a Dozer. i was up i was down. i knew i was right in telling him he cant take the kids, but then i felt bad and then i felt good because i know he is going to drink and his girlfriend will go drink with him and my kids will be alone in the hotel and they dont know what to do if someone knocked on the door. 

then i felt bad for telling him all this, then i didnt care. it was a crazy emotional day. 

but one thing for sure.....reading what you and enjoli (?) said made sense. perfect logical sense. and it really really helped. it gave me the strength that you saw to do what i needed to do.

i am grateful for this site. i have been off and on here since 2009. but it has always been a great site for advice.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes, he still occupies a LOT of my head. he was my everything. he was my husband. we had a good thing going until we didnt.

i had 14.5 years with him, married 12.5. we had problems but nothing that I considered to be out of the normal. i mean everyone has problems right. But last year was absolutely horrible, a living h*ll. i dont know what happened, it was like a switch. he started drinking MORE. he always had a drinking problem but now it was MORE, he started not coming home, no excuses, no explanations, no apologizes. after summer, he was looking at dating sites and actually tried to contact someone, after august, & sept he was more hateful, angry, blaming me for things, and twisting everything i said. i kept trying to figure WTF was going on. i kept trying to talk to him. i would tell him that i see him struggling with something, that he was an alcoholic, that he needed help. he agreed but just acted out worse. i would ask him if he wanted a divorce, he would say no. he loved me. i was his anchor, but then he would treat me like crap and not come home. i was at a lost and still am. i have no clue what happened. all i know was i got tired of it, but i kept trying. i loved this man with all my heart, he was the father of my children, we were together for 14 years. i didnt want to "just give up". but i also knew and have known for years at as soon as i did give up he would leave me. And he did, he proved me right.

he came home new years eve (2013), tried to pick a fight with me but i wasnt playing (i was actually busy putting in a cork floor so didnt notice) then said he was going to the store for wd40 and never came home. he ignored my calls and my texts. i didnt even now where he was or who he was with. i had his stuff packed by 3am (2014) the next day. even then i wanted to “Save our marriage” and he was willing to go to marriage counseling for the first time. but a week after he agreed to go to counseling, he hook up with some meth head crazy woman who doesnt even have her own kids cuz she would rather drink and party. and that was it.

she does all the thinking for him. and he is super worried about what she will think or want, he doesnt even care about his own kids much less about me. 14 years i sacrificed, forgave and worked because i thought i had something that was going to last forever and he just turns his back like i meant nothing to him. 

i am still struggling with being left and tossed aside so quickly. i am still trying to figure out what i am going to do with the rest of my life and my poor little boys. we are all in kind of a shock. maybe he is also, but he has a funny way of showing it. i am sick and tired of him being hateful to me. that is the next thing on my list that i am going to tell him.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Having a really bad day today. i actually dont know why. just woke up crying and have been crying off and on all day.

i know i still feel bad. after 14 years of me giving to him, 14 years of being together, 14 years of loving and supporting him, 14 years of forgiving him. i still cant understand how he can just turn his back and stop loving me at the drop of the hat. 

i know for me the divorce was only about him cheating on me yet again while we were separated. i cant stand the thought of him sticking his d*ck in another woman, so as soon as i found out that he was f*cking some other woman on FEB 9, i filed the divorce papers the very next day. but up until that day, i was still trying to save my marriage.

but i dont know what it was for him. i mean looking back at last year i can see all the horrible things he did. it seems to me that he gave up a long time ago. i still dont know why when i asked him if he wanted a divorce in august, september, nov and dec why did he say no he did not. but then turn around the very next day and not come home. i was super stressed all year long, i dont even think i was thinking straight. if that makes sense.

i was just talking to someone who knows him and he said that he doesnt think it has hit my ex yet, that he is still not believing this is happening. i was like, right and that is why he is f*cking this other girl right. because he didnt want to lose his wife and kids and family.

i know i know. my head is telling me to SHUT THE F*CK UP AND GET OVER HIM ALREADY, but my heart still hurts so bad. my heart wants him back, my heart still only knows love for this man, my heart has forgiven him and still gets hurt that he is not home.

and it is my heart that is controlling me today.

here comes the tears again, ugh!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MrsVain said:


> Having a really bad day today. i actually dont know why. just woke up crying and have been crying off and on all day.
> 
> i know i still feel bad. after 14 years of me giving to him, 14 years of being together, 14 years of loving and supporting him, 14 years of forgiving him. i still cant understand how he can just turn his back and stop loving me at the drop of the hat.
> 
> ...


It will take time, but eventually you will learn to separate your logic from your emotions, until those emotions go away.

Early in my separation/divorce process, I found this article, which really resonated:

4 Stupid Reasons I Stayed In an Emotionally Abusive Relationship Including "BUT I CAN FIX HIM THOUGH" | xoJane

I printed the picture of her list and taped it on the wall next to my computer at work. I printed a copy for my wallet. I kept a folded copy in whatever book I was reading at the time. I printed several copies and stashed or displayed them in other places as appropriate.

And whenever I started feeling emotional--in the way you describe above--I read the list, as many times as I needed, until the emotional attack subsided. It helped immensely.

I'm not saying that you should use this list, but you could make your own list of reasons, or you could make a list of reasons why you filed for divorce, or why you're better without him. Find whatever works for you, and refer to it when you need to. It's sort of like a security blanket to help you through this, until you grow out of this.

What you're experiencing is completely normal. We've all been through it. You will come out on the other side; you WILL survive this, and be better for it.

*hugs*


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Girl, i have lists EVERYWHERE!! haha. my heart is stupid. all it can remember is the good times, and it really likes to forgive.

really the only reason i divorced him is because he hooked up with someone else. this is not the first time either. his excuse is he never cheated on me, we broke up. i told him you cant break up in a marriage. this is not high school. but that is his mentality on it. but being as this is NOT the first time. i am done. i know i could have fought her for him and I KNOW he would have came back. but it was just too much after everything else he did put me thru. my mom thinks he only did it because it worked so well for him last time. being as i cried and beg him to come home again. i have no clue what he thinks being as he is not speaking to me now. 

but ya, i loved him, and still love him. and he did do a lot of good things for us. i still dont know what happened last year. i think the death of our oldest daughter triggered something in him, i tried to get him to talk, i tried to get him to go to counselling, i tried to get him just to admit he was f*cking up. but i was not completely in my right mind either. i mean, that was MY baby, i carried her, i raised her. she was 25. but she was my world too. i remember thinking a couple times why the f*ck am i having to beg him to tell me what is wrong, he should be begging me to tell him what is wrong with me.

it is all about him, and i was okay with that until last year. my family puts men on a pedestal as long as they are hard working and mine was up until last year. and before you ask, yes my family also put women on a pedestal if you are lucky. i wasnt. but i was still okay with it. i knew mine was damaged when we were dating, i just didnt know HOW damaged until years with him and the crazies started coming out of the wood work. 

oh welll...it is done. he is not coming back. i couldnt take him back even if he did. his crazy girlfriend is doing all his thinking and talking for him, and he isnt even man enough to tell her anything. 

i am being foolish even thinking like this and missing him.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

that link was helpful. i am also going back thru my posts to remind myself just how badly he did treat me when he did treat me badly.

haha. he didnt do it all the time but he did it big when he did do it. and it was inevitable that he would do it again and again. he just couldnt cope with anything.

so ya, thank you.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I guess that's where keeping a journal helped although I stayed time after time, asking him to get help, asking him to promise not to hit again, asking him to go to MC with me - SOMETHING. But he never did and his apologies weren't real ones - it was always "I'm sorry BUT" and then the blame would turn to me. Finally I just had to acknowledge he wasn't going to change and decide to go. Then decide WHEN, which was harder. But I kept reminding myself that he wasn't going to change and staying for kiddo wasn't an option.

I'm sorry it's been rough. Everyone has their own path to healing to follow.


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