# law is not justice



## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

yes it is not justice. The law always punish people who steal, harm, etc but never punish them who cheat and doing affair.

I really want that someday extramarital affair to be included in to a crime and got serious punishment. Extramarital affair steals and kills family happiness, marriage vows, children's dreams.

Extramarital affair is not a crime, this is where justice ignored by law.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and watch how corrupt and lopsided enforcement would get if that were to happen, and we'd have half the population in jail (and don't feed me the bull that it would be a deterrent because studies show that punishment is a minor deterrent at best)


do I wish that the courts would balance the scales better in civil suits and divorce in regards to affairs? you betcha

But I am always against government being the all-powerful morality police.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> and watch how corrupt and lopsided enforcement would get if that were to happen, and we'd have half the population in jail (and don't feed me the bull that it would be a deterrent because studies show that punishment is a minor deterrent at best)
> 
> 
> do I wish that the courts would balance the scales better in civil suits and divorce in regards to affairs? you betcha
> ...


just because the Extramarital affair is not included in crime, then so many people are free to do it. If from the beginning this was a crime, i bet you people will think twice to do it. will they sacrifice themselves to go to jail for Affair? i bet they will not, thinking how their live will caught in prison.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

You can't legislate morality...if this did happen, look how many politicians would be in jail for "crimes of the heart". Besides, I'm a big believer in karma...sooner or later we all have to pay for what we've done..or not done.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

morality? i ask you, when someone steals or harm others, you think this is not relevant to morality. only affair is relevant to morality.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

useable said:


> just because the Extramarital affair is not included in crime, then so many people are free to do it. If from the beginning this was a crime, i bet you people will think twice to do it. will they sacrifice themselves to go to jail for Affair? i bet they will not, thinking how their live will caught in prison.



Again, this is a canard

People who do things that they shouldn't rarely think of the consequences.

And there are real possible consequences to having an affair if caught aside from just hurting your spouse- financial and emotional, yet we still have a high infidelity rate. These people aren't thinking about could happen for much longer than a fleeting moment while being caught up in the whirlwind excitement.

It is also a far cry from real and enforceable crimes of physical violence and theft. 

Put it this way- the main gist of crime is to punish/rehabilitate those who are willing to infringe upon the rights of others. Whether it is the right to property (theft), freedom (kidnapping/extortion) or health (violence/murder), the bottom line is that having a happy marriage is not a right defined in the constitution. We can make a case in civil courts for undue stress or loss of monetary potential but you can't have the government punish for crimes of the heart or else we'd clog the courts and everyone would have to be a lawyer, judge and jury members.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

useable said:


> morality? i ask you, when someone steals or harm others, you think this is not relevant to morality. only affair is relevant to morality.


I'm talking about morality in regard to personal relationships and qualities...putting someone in jail for an affair would be like putting someone in jail for being shy...
Besides, when an affair has been discovered, hell is paid anyway, and a divorce or separation occurs...that should be payment in and of itself.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

useable said:


> morality? i ask you, when someone steals or harm others, you think this is not relevant to morality. only affair is relevant to morality.


while theft is immoral, it is not a punishable crime because it is immoral. It is a crime because it affects the right of the other person to property.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

You would have thought that the risk of destroying our family and harming our children would have been worse than any punishment the law could have handed down.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

With so many laws on the books - and more being added every year - punishing all sorts of behavior, it is a miracle that all of us are not in prison at this moment.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I live in a state with "Alienation of Affection" laws. Look it up. It's awesome.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I live in a state with "Alienation of Affection" laws. Look it up. It's awesome.


and those are civil statures not criminal


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

usable, maybe you should read The Scarlett Letter?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I wonder if you could sue your spouce for breach of contract after all most marriage are witnessed by people you invited and then you agree to an oral contract(vowels).

espically in the case of cheating could a good lawyer make an argument that because they broke an oral contract that you shoudn't have to pay spousal suport?


if you can't its just seems wrong


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

HappyAtLast said:


> Besides, when an affair has been discovered, hell is paid anyway, and a divorce or separation occurs...that should be payment in and of itself.


Not always. I do think there should be a punishment in family court for infidelity... Much like it use to be, it had way more impact on the outcome of the divorce decades ago.. Not so much now. 

I think if someone blatantly cheats, and the other spouse wants out, the cheating spouse should have to pay for everything to let the other spouse comfortable move on if that's the choice. And it should be enforced through the courts. Often times the cheater back tracks and kisses ass when they see how much this is gonna really cost, and they sweet talk their way back. The cheated spouse should have some level of comfort for being cheated on instead of worrying how they will move on financially. I may be way off base, who knows.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Cherry said:


> Not always. I do think there should be a punishment in family court for infidelity... Much like it use to be, it had way more impact on the outcome of the divorce decades ago.. Not so much now.
> 
> I think if someone blatantly cheats, and the other spouse wants out, the cheating spouse should have to pay for everything to let the other spouse comfortable move on if that's the choice. And it should be enforced through the courts. Often times the cheater back tracks and kisses ass when they see how much this is gonna really cost, and they sweet talk their way back. The cheated spouse should have some level of comfort for being cheated on instead of worrying how they will move on financially. I may be way off base, who knows.


what you're saying is very open to debate, but OP is talking about criminal prosecution which to me is laughable


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Can you imagine what marriage would be like if government decided that it was okay to begin punishing people for infidelity? Facebook would suffer such radical changes from spyware that it would no longer work. Threesome's have to be reported and monitored because we know that people can change their mind and call it infidelity. Porn is infidelity to some, so a new agency would need to be created to define rules.

I think I'll just stick with the premise upon which my wife and I agreed: There are no 3 strikes, 2 strikes, or even 1 strike. Infidelity equals divorce - do not pass Go, and do not collect $200. All devices and web profiles, passwords and even conversations are expected to be open and reviewed, even this site. Phones are not a right. Problems with phone usuage are resolved with gasoline and a lighter. I can go out with the guys, and you can go out with the girls, and I will trust you until I no longer trust you - then it stops until I trust you again. If either of us no longer like these rules, call the attorney to start the divorce paperwork before complaining. People will undeoubtedly consider it harsh, but our philosophy is that the marriage is already over if one feels the need to cheat, or cling to rights of privacy. This is a lighthearted paraphrasing, but basically the approach that the Comanchee pre-marital counselor helped us to use to show that clinging to privacy is the real risk behind infidelity.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Cherry said:


> Not always. I do think there should be a punishment in family court for infidelity... Much like it use to be, it had way more impact on the outcome of the divorce decades ago.. Not so much now.


FWIW, one reason many states moved to no fault was the perceived destruction caused by each spouse trying to prove the other cheated. Evidence was weak, inconclusive, and in some (many?) cases fabricated. Lunch with a person of the opposite sex was offered as proof, trashing both people regardless of the merits. 

This is not to say that there should not be a penalty or that courts should not factor in infidelity. Rather, it is to give a background as to one of the many for the reasons for the change from the past.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

well. so many contrast on my view or opinion, i think you belittle marriage and affair. don't you know that this is a serious matter.

it is worse than steal or simple lies, or harming people.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> usable, maybe you should read The Scarlett Letter?


haha ... the sympathy for the cheating wife .. awful


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

useable said:


> well. so many contrast on my view or opinion, i think you belittle marriage and affair. don't you know that this is a serious matter.
> 
> it is worse than steal or simple lies, or harming people.


Granted, cheating is a horrible, horrible thing to deal with..many of us here have had it happen to us...but, you can not legislate people's feelings and emotions. And I am sure not belittling marriage at all...I took my vows very seriously, even at the tender age of 23.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> It is punishable by law. It's called divorce.


so close to hit the spot


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> and those are civil statures not criminal


Ah yes Sharia inspired public decapitation. The good old days.


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## sam83 (Jul 23, 2011)

Doesn't have to be Jail guys but at least not to have half of everything, the house, may be full custody on kids and let them raise by her / him AP

where I live BS go to the cleaners literally and lose custody and will be lucky if allowed to see their kids ever even if they got the biggest shark attorney out there and for some double standards we hope to end soon if married woman got caught in act she got 3 yrs in jail with her AP unless the husband drop the charges of her

sort of unfair but there's good possibility the cheating man got caught with married woman so he goes to jail too 

I'm almost 29 yrs old and never see or hear about R story unless in Hollywood movies or in this forum here


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Cheaters should be sued for personal injury. 

Infidelity is the most terribly painful and cruelest personal injury that can be inflicted upon another human being. The effect can be a tailspin emotionally and financially for LS and the family unit.

Dreams shattered in an instant. 

There is definitely a breach of contract and Personal Injury issues with infidelity and one wonders why there isn't an option to insure against it because so much happens to the LS that puts a pressure on health services and must surely add a cost to businesses generally due to time off work or reduced productivity. The fall out effect must cause accidents for some people in riskier occupations.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The criminal justice system is already strained and backlogged as it is. In the US, we're constrained by the constitution, which guarantees the accused, due process of law and the right to a speedy and fair trial. Every jurisdiction has only a limited number of courtrooms, a limited number of judges, and basically only 40 hours a week to try cases. This is why at every level of the system, from law enforcement to the district/county/city attorneys have to practice discretion. In the medical field, its called triage. This is the reason you see many cases get dropped, or plea bargained. That's why making it a criminal matter instead of a criminal matter would be useless, most cases wouldn't even make it to the courtroom, not when the prosecutors have to try the more serious misdemeanor and felony cases.

Now, I do believe that family divorce laws should be overhauled. In cases where infidelity is proven, the cheating spouse should not just be able to walk away with half the marital assets, receive alimony, full custody of the children, etc. In other words, they shouldn't be able to walk off happily into the sunset with their OM/OW while they betrayed their own spouse and destroying the family unit. The downside of this is like the criminal side, there are a limited number of courtrooms, judges, and hours in the week. Many divorce cases might be lengthened by long trials where one party would be trying to present proof of infidelity.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

And to follow up Lordmayhem, there is the question of *MONEY* and how do governments get money? *TAXES*. Ok who wants to pay more taxes? raise your mouses (mice).


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

And we want the government to interfere MORE???? More laws???? 

Does masturbating count?


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

sam83 said:


> Doesn't have to be Jail guys but at least not to have half of everything, the house, may be full custody on kids and let them raise by her / him AP
> 
> where I live BS go to the cleaners literally and lose custody and will be lucky if allowed to see their kids ever even if they got the biggest shark attorney out there and for some double standards we hope to end soon if married woman got caught in act she got 3 yrs in jail with her AP unless the husband drop the charges of her
> 
> ...


this can be accepted


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> It is punishable by law. It's called divorce.


Divorce isn't 'punishment.' Its the termination of a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

While I also agree in principle that the cheating spouse should not be rewarded with custody, child support, alimony and half of the assets built up over the marriage, the expense that local and state governments would incur in investigations and court costs would be huge. The only way to meet those costs would be to raise everybody's taxes and we know what the likelihood of that happening in our lifetime.

A cheaper alternative - although extremely tough to pass - is the elimination of marriage as a legal entity. Let marriage become a symbolic union between a couple. Get government out of the marriage business and you would see a huge reduction of court and departmental costs. But just like the increasing taxes scenario, this one also has a snowball's chance in hell as well in becoming reality.

Like it or not, life is risk and if you know full well what you may well end up losing if things go bad in your marriage, the better your mindset will be to move on with your life. *I know this sounds harsh but if you can't accept risk, then you have no business getting married.*


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

useable said:


> well. so many contrast on my view or opinion, i think you belittle marriage and affair. don't you know that this is a serious matter.
> 
> it is worse than steal or simple lies, or harming people.


I remember reading recently about a woman in Iran..whom, if I'm not mistaken, is a widow..she was convicted of adultery and sentenced to be stoned to death.
Is that what you want? A return to a brutal theocracy...sort of how people used to think in the 11th century???


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

HappyAtLast said:


> I remember reading recently about a woman in Iran..whom, if I'm not mistaken, is a widow..she was convicted of adultery and sentenced to be stoned to death.
> Is that what you want? A return to a brutal theocracy...sort of how people used to think in the 11th century???


do you think this is brutal ... is it brutal than spreading legs, cuckolding, abandoning family?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

But who gets to decide what constitutes infidelity? Actual sex? Porn? Staring too long at someone passing by?

Who gets to decide if all infidelity is the same? Are "emotional affairs" the same as physical ones and how do you legally define those?

Who gets to decide what constitutes proof? Visual evidence? Photos? "I'm sure of it"?

Who gets to decide the punishment? Jail? Community service? Fines? How much?

Codifying infidelity would be an administrative nightmare, not to mention determining appropriate sentencing for it. It just becomes an avenue for abusing the system for personal vengeance. We have a civil system and the ever-popular "pain and suffering" suits for that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> A cheaper alternative - although extremely tough to pass - is the elimination of marriage as a legal entity. Let marriage become a symbolic union between a couple. Get government out of the marriage business and you would see a huge reduction of court and departmental costs. But just like the increasing taxes scenario, this one also has a snowball's chance in hell as well in becoming reality.
> 
> Like it or not, life is risk and if you know full well what you may well end up losing if things go bad in your marriage, the better your mindset will be to move on with your life. *I know this sounds harsh but if you can't accept risk, then you have no business getting married.*


I like this idea. 



useable said:


> do you think this is brutal ...


Um, are you seroius? Yes, it's brutal to stone someone to death.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

useable said:


> do you think this is brutal ... is it brutal than spreading legs, cuckolding, abandoning family?


Ummm..yes, I do. I believe it's called..murder.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Driving a car is a risk, walking across a road is a risk as is life but, all of these risks can result in compensation. If someone crashes into your car or upsets and turns your life into hell overnight through accidents or wilful harm such risks are compensated for. Why should the most important area relationships, family life and its stability be left unprotected from the ravishes of infidelity and a tailspin on family finances?

Infidelity puts a huge pressure and cost on business and health services (and courts) already, but a system that results in a set automatic reduction on earnings and assets on infidelity cases may make it simplier to administer. 

The Divorce court already knows the reason for marital breakdown.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

I certainly believe that the discovery of an affair or ONS should give the BS the option to nullify the marriage (if that's what they want) without the dragging time and paperwork of courts, but to make it a crime is in itself immoral.
When we marry we enter into an agreement of an exlusive relationship, AT NO TIME DO WE OWN THAT PERSON. The wife or husband is not our property and they are entitled to make their own decisions, even if those decisions are unwise, careless or totally destructive.
I believe though, that the BS should have the right to nullify that contract after the DS has broken the agreement.

Just my tuppence.

N-B


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