# Moving on



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EDIT: Advice only please, not accusations/attacks.

My STBX is moving out tomorrow, and we've broke the news to our daughter, our seperation is in motion. At work today I don't know what got into me but I well... tried to cheer myself up, and managed to get a number from a casual waitress I hired cash-in-hand just for the service tonight. She was interested...

But now I wonder if I should really go through with it. Just a date right? But it just doesn't really feel right, 1 day before official seperation and I already have options. I don't think I'm ready for this, and I should really keep my flirtateous nature in check but... shouldn't there be a time before dating again during seperation?

I'm thinking of delaying this 'date' actually, it feels wrong... should it feel wrong?


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I have only one rule, if something troubles your conscience, don't do it. Its clearly pricking yours. Don't do it. Time for ***** hunting later. But that said, after your divorce or when you know for certain that you're headed there, the faster you jump back into the dating scene, the better.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

After divorce? Nah I'm not waiting a full year to get laid!!! It's already a system shock by itself since D-day (am I using this term correctly? D-Day is the time when the divorce/seperation all began yes?), going from sex daily to nothing at all. I've stayed loyal for 4 years in my marriage, but now I'm certain it's headed to divorce sharply, considering now I absolutely can't bear the thought of accepting her back anytime soon... ack!

Also if I don't go through with it I would just end up leading on and hurting this prospective date, I may be a flirt but I'm not a player. Now I can always wear the most unfashionable clothes, rent a cheap car to look poor, eat a whole ton of baked beans, and make the date a much more humorous situation and end up with no hurt feelings sure...

But... well, we've crossed the threshold, so it is better if I jump straight back in yes?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow. She's not even moved out and you're getting numbers.

Smh.

Don't you have enough drama in your life right now? Worry about your daughter and how she'll handle this and get situated. Holy crap.


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

I think you know the answer to this. You mind is telling you that it is wrong. Listen to you. At the end of the day, you need to do what is best for you. If you think it is a good thing, then by all means, do it. Either way, it is a nice feeling knowing that you are desirable, though, right?


----------



## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Wow. She's not even moved out and you're getting numbers.
> 
> Smh.
> 
> Don't you have enough drama in your life right now? Worry about your daughter and how she'll handle this and get situated. Holy crap.


My sentiments exactly.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Just a short couple of weeks ago you were professing your undying love for your wife.....????


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ever since I was 12 I learnt how to harden up to the point no emotion can affect me. Now nearing my 30s I'm more in control of this mechanism it seems though I never realised it until it subconsciously "switched on" on D-day, it took me a while to figure out what was going on because I went from love to indifference. But now I know, and I'm using it.

What emotions I have to feel to move on, I allow myself to feel. What emotions do nothing but leave me unproductive, sad, depressed, I shut out. But that doesn't mean I'm allowing myself to be cold and ruthless, now that I'm conscious of it - it no longer drives me THAT nuts. I wrote this thread I guess... because of conscience. So I'm still feeling, but I'm choosing what to feel.

Yes, I'm staying with my daughter all night tonight and I can't sleep because she won't sleep unless I'm with her and this may be the last time she will live with both her parents under the same roof. I'm not neglecting her nor my responsibilities in this seperation. But this date, just seems like a good distraction lest I go nuts.

I don't know if I can maintain control of this mechanism 24/7 all the time.



> Either way, it is a nice feeling knowing that you are desirable, though, right?


Yeah, and it also looks like I haven't lost a touch in the game even after a 7 yr relationship, 4 yr marriage.

Hell I don't know, it feels wrong yet I don't know... it's almost like I'm still loyal to my wife when there's really no longer any reason to be - and if that's it, then I have to shut that out. But if IT IS wrong, which I'm trying to find out, then I'd rather not go through with it. Actually the baked beans approach seems like a good distraction by itself, but then again, I'm HD.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Well, there is a reason to remain loyal to your wife since she hasnt even left yet....good grief RD. Slow down. You dont pick up a date the day you separate!?!?!?!? Come on you know that. Do you want to tell your daughter "yes, honey daddy did have a date the same week but really this wasnt my fault...."


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Just hope your wifes family don't have a PI following you lol


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Just hope your wifes family don't have a PI following you lol


It was done discretely, and was mere flirting and exchange of numbers. Unless they broke into my premises which I doubt it.



> Well, there is a reason to remain loyal to your wife since she hasnt even left yet....good grief RD. Slow down. You dont pick up a date the day you separate!?!?!?!? Come on you know that. Do you want to tell your daughter "yes, honey daddy did have a date the same week but really this wasnt my fault...."


She's leaving in like... 4 hours!!!
Besides would my daughter really later hate me for that? =/


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It was done discretely, and was mere flirting and exchange of numbers. Unless they broke into my premises which I doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are you willing to risk the answer???? for a waitress you dont even know??? Yes she will feel sorry for MOMMY!!!!! I cant believe Ive watched you pretend to writhe in agony over your love for your wife. Yet, here it is, the demise of your marraige. And you cant even wait for the ink to dry???? I swear. Give it a rest. You arent ready to date anyone. You need to work on YOU. You need to concentrate on that little girl who cant sleep at night. Goodness.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm all for dating while separated and headed for divorce but this is too soon even by my standards.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well even my wife progressed from the "lady I don't even know". As for "pretending", did you even read my post above? I would not have even been able to go through all of this without hardening the fk up and doing what needs to be done. So do I feel I love my wife anymore? No I don't, I feel complete indifference. I will NOT allow myself to feel love for her, it is unproductive, it is depressing, and I could NOT function.

I HAVE to function. I can't allow myself to feel it, I just can't. But as for my daughter, *sighs* yeah, it's just not right. It's not worth the risk. Heck, it's probably just going to be sex with this date, but nah. I will delay this until a better time. Now is just not right. Thanks for helping me confirm it.

Ok, what is the best length of time in my case?


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well even my wife progressed from the "lady I don't even know". As for "pretending", did you even read my post above? I would not have even been able to go through all of this without hardening the fk up and doing what needs to be done. So do I feel I love my wife anymore? No I don't, I feel complete indifference. I will NOT allow myself to feel love for her, it is unproductive, it is depressing, and I could NOT function.
> 
> I HAVE to function. I can't allow myself to feel it, I just can't. But as for my daughter, *sighs* yeah, it's just not right. It's not worth the risk. Heck, it's probably just going to be sex with this date, but nah. I will delay this until a better time. Now is just not right. Thanks for helping me confirm it.
> 
> Ok, what is the best length of time in my case?


When you are emotionally stable. No one is emotionally stable the day they separate from their spouse. You will know when you dont have to ask yourself IF its the right thing to do...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright... looks like it's the baked beans approach then for this date. She's a nice girl I don't want her to hurt because of this, or then of course I can always just tell her what's happening, probably turn her off just as well.

A real waste though, oh well


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> EDIT: Advice only please, not accusations/attacks.
> 
> My STBX is moving out tomorrow, and we've broke the news to our daughter, our seperation is in motion. At work today I don't know what got into me but I well... tried to cheer myself up, and managed to get a number from a casual waitress I hired cash-in-hand just for the service tonight. She was interested...
> 
> ...


You JUST separated from your wife.No,you should NOT go through with a date.It feels wrong because YOU'RE STILL MARRIED and your wife is NOT your soon to be exwife unless you're able to get a divorce within the next week or so. She's still YOUR WIFE.

I'm floored that you could even consider or think of dating when your current life just fell to pieces,your child is probably so confused and lost at this point and your focused on your flirtatious nature and dating??? Dude, you need help with getting your priorities straight. Focus on your little girl and forget about women.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I AM focused on my little girl and she's with me now, will be before my wife leaves in a few hours with her. I wasn't even focused on my nature or dating, it just happened, and I thought it would be a good distraction later on.

Sheez, can't people just post advice without accusation this and accusation that

Anyways, it's already decided last page, no I'm not going to do it for the sake of my daughter, but as for my STBX, divorce laws are different in AUS, it's a full year before divorce can be considered. So no, I don't consider her my wife anymore and I've hardened.

And no I'm not taking her back if she switches, at least not anytime soon, reasons here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60657-any-hints-little-one.html
From post 12


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> divorce laws are different in AUS, it's a full year before divorce can be considered. So no, I don't consider her my wife anymore and I've hardened.


A full year means NO DATING during that time...at least it means that where I got divorced. I totally get the need for distraction but if you've hardened,why do you need distracting? Your heart isn't hurting,your mind isn't suffering...you've hardened.

I think you need therapy on your own and I think you should wait a looooong time before attempting to date even casually.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No thanks, I'm a man, and I'm HD. A full year celibate? No thanks

Once things are more settled I don't see why I shouldn't date, it's not the right time now I agree, but I disagree with waiting the full year


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

What does being a man have to do with it?? lol are you for real with that statement??

do what you will but remember there will be consequences for every move you make. Hopefully for your sake your wife isn't the type to try to influence a child to hate her dad bc he's dating and screwing women before being divorced.


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

I think it's a good bet that dating before the locks are changed will only create a sh!t storm of unnecessary drama.

Drama with a girl that most likely thinks you're dateable, not just a casual hookup. Drama especially if she works for you from time to time. Even more potential drama since you got her number WHILE she was working for you, could imply sexual harassment. Not likely I'm sure, but still....

Drama with your wife. Just. Drama. And guessing from her need of validation through sex, I just see a hugely destructive "tit-for-tat" race to accrue as many "revenge fux" as you can.

Let things settle a bit. Work on you. Focus on your daughter and leave the drama for an issue that counts.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You expect me, a HD man, to go without sex for a full year? Especially after having sex over 4K times over the last 4 years? That's just not possible and it's as unreasonable as my wife's terms.

Besides hey, she's got free reign now, she can bang any guy 3x a day or more if she likes, I frankly no longer even give a sh-t. I feel nothing, which is good, lets me get sh-t done. As for her poisoning my child, she knows my daughter loves me so good luck with that.

If I date during this time, then sure, my daughter has reason to hate me, but during seperation itself - when we're practically no longer married? I don't think so.


----------



## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Alright... looks like it's the baked beans approach then for this date. She's a nice girl I don't want her to hurt because of this, or then of course I can always just tell her what's happening, probably turn her off just as well.
> 
> A real waste though, oh well


It does sound like you are rushing things a bit, but I can relate to the confidence boost of another lady finding you attractive. 

Maybe tell this new prospect that the timing is off, but would like to have a date a little more into the future. 

Better to be honest. Never burn a bridge so to speak.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

hey man it's not my expectation,I don't care what horrible choices you make,doesn't change my life or anything. But the court cares what you do. Child Protective services cares what you do. If your wife has any vindictive bones in her body she will SLAM you every chance she gets if she finds out you're dating and give the **** to some other chick but wanted to force abstinence on her. 

We've already established in numerous other threads that even though it's 2012,the court systems in some states STILL seem to be on the mom's side. Do you seriously want to give her ammunition by having random dates/sexual encounters while separated?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@COGyspy

I will, and I'll leave this alone for now.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> You expect me, a HD man, to go without sex for a full year?



THIS GUY ONLY MADE IT FOUR DAYS!!!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jason439 said:


> It does sound like you are rushing things a bit, but I can relate to the confidence boost of another lady finding you attractive.
> 
> Maybe tell this new prospect that the timing is off, but would like to have a date a little more into the future.
> 
> Better to be honest. Never burn a bridge so to speak.


Yeah, I'll try to keep it short and sweet tomorrow. But oh well, even if I burn this bridge there's plenty, especially considering how soon this freakin happened. I didn't even do much really, I just well stopped the no-flirting rule that I had for marriage and boom.

@Scarlet

Hmmm, forgot to ask about that actually during legal advice. Looks like it's back to the soliticitor's office tomorrow about child custody and dating while seperating. But I doubt my wife can do much, AUS has a very simple divorce system and besides we've both agreed to settle outside of court. I'm over the fact that I am losing a ton of money already especially after finalising it by breaking the news to our daughter.



Almostrecovered said:


> THIS GUY ONLY MADE IT FOUR DAYS!!!


Heh, well, I've made it for over a week now!


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Have the two of you discussed taking a co-parenting class together? co-parenting is tough for most people,the class really can help you a lot.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No we haven't, that's something I guess we will have to look at actually. This is the first time for both of us when it comes to co-parenting, and my STBX and I are co-operative when it comes to the needs of our daughter which is good. Thanks for the heads up, might keep myself off women for a while too at least until things settle.

Darn it, I have to really change the habit from "wife" to STBX


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RD, are you for real?? ok my, non-accusatory, advice: you should wait until physical separation before even _considering_ dating or having sex with someone else.

Now for the judgement part: I dunno, maybe it's just me but the idea that you are *currently* dealing with *marriage difficulties* and just at the very beginning stages of physical separation, the idea that you are seeking sex or affection from someone else smells too much like cheating for me and other posters to not be judgemental. I don't know why you want to invite that kind of drama into your life (and your family's life), and don't give me the "not emotional" argument because if you weren't emotional you wouldn't have 3000+ posts on a self-help forum.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She's leaving in like what... 2 hours from now

Besides I didn't even do anything yet! And no I'm not going to.


----------



## bbrad (May 30, 2012)

Ok, what is the best length of time in my case?[/QUOTE]

When you haven't posted for one month?


----------



## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Have you asked her if she is planning on doing any dating while you are separated? Do you care?


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Please don't take my statements as attacks. I just want you to read how my brain is interpretting your sitaution.

You're seperating from your wife mainly because of her high drive.

You have repeatedly said in this thread that you refuse to go a full year without sex.

That leads me to believe that your problems with your wife were never really about her HD needs. You were never really that into her towards the end. I could feel it in every post you've made over the past year. There was always a sentence or two that really gave it away.

Now the fact that you already lined up a date on the same day your daughter will be in a world of hurt and confusion over the seperation of her parents I am sure you had no feelings for her for quite some time and it had nothing to do with her drive.

What's more, I believe her HD for you was her sensing all along that you weren't into her, and she was desperately trying to keep your love. I'm not a sappy dude but I seriously almost have tears in my eyes for this woman and your little girl. I'm not saying you're a monster or anything. These things happen in marriage. But you not loving your wife happened way before last weekend.


----------



## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> No thanks, *I'm a man, and I'm HD. A full year celibate? No thanks*
> 
> Once things are more settled I don't see why I shouldn't date, it's not the right time now I agree, but I disagree with waiting the full year


Wasn't your wife giving you sex *3 TIMES A DAY?*


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Take some time 'off' from being in any relationship (dating included) to focus on you, your daughter and to get yourself healthy again.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Take some time off and work on yourself.

Dang. That's the last I post in your threads. I stand by what I said a long time ago...you do create your own problems. I wish you could see it.

Best wishes. Truly.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

bbrad said:


> When you haven't posted for one month?


Good point... wait, no that might take a while =/



> Have you asked her if she is planning on doing any dating while you are separated? Do you care?


No I didn't, besides how can I exactly say to her "btw, you can fk anyone you like now" and not get a sh-tstorm happening? I'm very sure she knows of the free reign considering we have both decided to work through this and move on.



sinnister said:


> Please don't take my statements as attacks. I just want you to read how my brain is interpretting your sitaution.
> 
> You're seperating from your wife mainly because of her high drive.


It's not really even about the sex in the end, it's how she is, manipulative, demanding, selfish, inconsiderate, rejecting my non-sexual advances as revenge for rejecting her sexual advances. It's just too toxic. Not only that, but I know I've fked up something bad myself and I haven't been a good husband either, but I'm not going to wallow in guilt forever. What's done is done, I have to suck it up, and keep going forward.

I don't really have a choice, here's her terms:
Page 19 on the big thread.
"I told her that we could still work it out but it's going to take two and she said she can't handle it anymore and that she's sorry but I've broken her. I asked her to consider our daughter in this and she said that she has and that she (our daughter) doesn't deserve to see anymore of this and she can't trust that what happened won't happen again while she's with me."



> You have repeatedly said in this thread that you refuse to go a full year without sex.


Sure but I never said I was LD, my wife's drive is excessive, and it wouldn't have been that much of a problem if she even ALLOWED ME to romance her. I want to express my love to her as well but when the typical scenario happens:

I flirt/tease/affirm, she ends up wanting it, and I say no (especially when we just HAD IT A FEW HOURS FKING AGO), and then all hell breaks loose, and then she says that I shouldn't even touch her unless I want it because it "leads her on" and "hurts" her, then whats the point? I can't provide for her needs at all, whats the point of being in a marriage when I can't satisfy her in the way she wants to be satisfied not to mention my own satisfaction.



> That leads me to believe that your problems with your wife were never really about her HD needs. You were never really that into her towards the end. I could feel it in every post you've made over the past year. There was always a sentence or two that really gave it away. Now the fact that you already lined up a date on the same day your daughter will be in a world of hurt and confusion over the seperation of her parents I am sure you had no feelings for her for quite some time and it had nothing to do with her drive.


And you are correct, it's been a long time coming. And hell I was not really looking for date, I just felt like sh-t at work and needed something to get my mind off it, and one thing led to the next. Stop bringing my daughter into this when there's no need to, my STBX and I have both prioritised her and hence the only reason I decided NOT to take this lady out now is because of her.

Right now I have an empty house to come home to each day but by next week she'll be staying with me - as per my STBX has agreed so we are doing the best we can on that department.



> What's more, I believe her HD for you was her sensing all along that you weren't into her, and she was desperately trying to keep your love. I'm not a sappy dude but I seriously almost have tears in my eyes for this woman and your little girl. I'm not saying you're a monster or anything. These things happen in marriage. But you not loving your wife happened way before last weekend.


It's no longer my issue, I haven't been a good husband no, but I do know that I have tried my best to make her feel loved as best I could but when you are rejected for that as well just because your acts are not sexual, that just doesn't leave the case promising on her side. Since the very first time I knew of her past, I wanted to show her a love that she has never experienced from her past experiences with ONSs and selling her body. And since the very first time she knew of my ways she used me as her "escapism" from the nunnery life she lived in church after her guilt of her escort past. I've put up with her excessive demands for FOUR years, and it just doesn't do it for me anymore. 



FalconKing said:


> Wasn't your wife giving you sex *3 TIMES A DAY?*


What makes you think quantity = quality? Well maybe for many men bro, but not me. What I want is the romance, the tease, the game, the challenge. I have a strong hunter's instinct, even the flirting last night was more satisfying then the wild sex my STBX and I had for all these years. THATS HOW BAD IT WAS IN MY MARRIAGE



> Take some time 'off' from being in any relationship (dating included) to focus on you, your daughter and to get yourself healthy again.


Yeah, not really in the mood actually now after watching my daughter refuse to leave me behind this morning. That was just fked up.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Given that your wife desires sex from you multiple times a day, and this latest storm started when you cut her off cold, if you have sex with anything but yourself for the coming weeks is quite frankly you being extremely hurtful and heart breaking to her.

I think it would absolutely destroy your wife.

Please do not do that. She's done nothing to earn such as hurtful act.

And in time you will hate yourself for doing that to her.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, not really in the mood actually now after watching my daughter refuse to leave me behind this morning. That was just fked up.


Damn...that rough. Just reassure her that you will always be there for her no matter what. It also takes a lot of bravery to walk away when you know its done.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It was WORSE then telling her. Watching my wife leave I didn't even give a sh-t considering I've already hardened but what happened this morning was FKED and I had to go to work with that sh-t including ZERO sleep last night. It caught me fking off guard

Shaggy, she doesn't have to know the details and she should by now know what's going to happen and she has also already chosen for us to be over and to move on, and besides I wonder if she's already planning her own revenge fks herself
Still, I'm not in the mood for it in the meantime after that, but I know I have to get some as soon as things settle down otherwise I would go nuts


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

It's human nature to be in a rush to feel wanted, attractive, desired. Which you weren't getting, even though you were having sex 3 times a day.

The other point of waiting a bit to date is to be fair to those you are engaging in. Give them a fair shake at the REAL you, with your emotions cleared. Anything less than that, and you are playing with the dates. That's all. It's a respect thing.


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

A lot of people have been giving you a lot of good advice, but you wouldn't listen. 

You are like a lost soul. Pretend to be tough on the outside, but deep down in your heart, you have no soul. 

You spend so much time talking to people here and asking for advice, but have you ever sat down and asked yourself, " Why am I like this?"

People who think other people are problems are usually people who have a lot of problems themselves. 

Change yourself first before you even want to consider another relationship. (Casual sex won't make you a decent man!)

As for your wife, I think it's better for her to start her own life and find a better man.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

sinnister said:


> Damn...that rough. Just reassure her that you will always be there for her no matter what. It also takes a lot of bravery to walk away when you know its done.


The most difficult part was that my daughter did not believe either of us when we told her that she is still going to see me after the weekend anyway. We've both lost her trust, we both have to earn it back.



> It's human nature to be in a rush to feel wanted, attractive, desired. Which you weren't getting, even though you were having sex 3 times a day.
> 
> The other point of waiting a bit to date is to be fair to those you are engaging in. Give them a fair shake at the REAL you, with your emotions cleared. Anything less than that, and you are playing with the dates. That's all. It's a respect thing.


I wasn't exactly looking for a fresh new marriage of all things. It was just flirting and exchange of numbers and possibility of a casual relationship later down the track. Now years ago I was an NSA guy, not a player, so I don't lead women on, I'll let her know where she stands as soon as I can - without losing the opportunity for a casual arrangement - it's all timing. I don't see any reason to stay hurting women anytime soon.

Besides I'm not going to do anything for a while, think this morning robbed me of any desire to even do ANYTHING. Yesterday I managed my emotions it seems, I even got a date. Today with no sleep and watching my daughter like that however... guess it got to me


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Greenpearl

Never said I was tough, but I do what I have to do. What other choice do I have?! DID I HAVE?!

As for my "soul" if you believe in that sort of thing, it was lost when I was 12, right and wrong from that day onward was relative. I do what I have to do, no more, no less. You may think of me as heartless but I don't really care, I know I have a heart, but I also know and not ashamed of doing what needs to be done.

I'm not one to bend knee, and will never be one. If you think me heartless because I did not bend knee (and that's EXACTLY what my wife wants from me), then I would say that I'm PROUD to be heartless.

As for my wife, yes of course it's better for her to move on and find a better man for her. It's too late for me with her, and too late for her with me, it's over.

Bah... wife/STBX whatever. Freakin habit...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dude,

I think some of Pearl's compassion for you was lost in the language barrier, but we've watched you for quite awhile.

I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone who asked more questions and listened as little to what was given back.

Perhaps when your next date doesn't work out - or when the next 200 dates don't work out, you'll ponder the good feedback you've gotten here and chart a new course.

The very fact that you're already wanting to date hours after breaking your little daughter's heart..........

If you saw someone else do that, you'd say it was all about them.

In the end, that's the thing both you and your wife shared.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

This is a discussion forum, I agree with some, disagree with others. I take what I can get and what fits to my situation. How do you expect me to take advice that doesn't fit? And how can you say I don't listen? Do you guys even READ my posts? Or do you just like to drop accusations on random pages after reading just the OP or whatever your impression of me at the time?

It's impossible to lay EVERYTHING out on the table with words over an online forum, if that makes folk judge me for being stubborn (yes I am) then pffft, what the hell you expect me to do?

As for the flirting I NEEDED TO CHEER MYSELF UP FFS, I didn't even expect a date let alone exchange of numbers it just fkin happened and if you think me THAT heartless why the fk would I even make a thread about it asking about the morality of it?!

My life isn't black and white, perhaps for many folks, but not mine.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sheez do I REALLY have to illustrate it out for you, ok example of why I take some advice and not others:

Page 1:
Me: Wait, but this and that
Post:


> are you willing to risk the answer???? for a waitress you dont even know??? Yes she will feel sorry for MOMMY!!!!!


She asked me the hard questions and made me realise I can't do this and risk it

Now, how about the posts you say I don't respond to?


> deep down in your heart, you have no soul.


Classic example, not to mention the first page of my bigger thread. You call THAT advice?!

Now, look at the big thread, I've asked repeatedly from my very 2nd post: WHAT ELSE I COULD HAVE DONE. It took 17 pages before I realised what I did was wrong because only then did someone show me a different way and answered my bloody question. It was very specific to my question, and it clicked.

Now I can understand the frustration, but I don't come here to get attacked/accused left right and center, I come here for answers. I don't care about what you guys think about me, I just want answers!!! And whatever limited support I can get, even if the advice isn't helpful have you ever seen me just ignore it? I address it and I appreciate that folks come in to try and help. The ones I don't address are the ones that are just pointless to address such as personal attacks.

I don't expect I can help folk and change their lives either when I share my experiences to help other people, I am limited in my knowledge just as anyone else is, but when someone doesn't listen to my advice then I go "alright, I can't help him", and move on. Have you EVER seen me call a poster a jerk? An *******? That his wife/husband should leave them?


----------



## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

random dude if you want to get laid just go to a local brothel and pick a girl don't get a date or something to get laid......

its just complicate the whole situation with you dating during the separation


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

greenpearl said:


> A lot of people have been giving you a lot of good advice, but you wouldn't listen.
> 
> You are like a lost soul. Pretend to be tough on the outside, but deep down in your heart, you have no soul.


That's a tad harsh



> You spend so much time talking to people here and asking for advice, but have you ever sat down and asked yourself, " Why am I like this?"
> 
> People who think other people are problems are usually people who have a lot of problems themselves.


Totally agree with this.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

the liberal one said:


> random dude if you want to get laid just go to a local brothel and pick a girl don't get a date or something to get laid......
> 
> its just complicate the whole situation with you dating during the separation


Mate, that will just remind me of my STBX

As for this whole thread I didn't even bring up my freakin STBX, I asked a specific question as taking control of this mental mechanic is still new to me and I want to do the right thing and not end up doing the wrong thing. My moral compass is relative, and that has its pluses as well as its negatives. Being unsure of right and wrong at times, IS one of the negatives


----------



## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Mate, that will just remind me of my STBX


then what do you want then?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wait until things settle down first, I can't risk my daughter hating me in the future. I'll get laid later, but I still don't see the point in waiting a full year before all this because the hardest parts of this divorce/seperation has been done and my STBX and I are still on talking terms.

Not to mention we have ZERO arguments in regards to shared custody and my daughter will be staying with me next week where I already have plans. Either than what happened this morning, it shouldn't get any worse right?

I know that I'm not ready at all for a new relationship, but I also don't want to go celibate either


----------



## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Wait until things settle down first, I can't risk my daughter hating me in the future. I'll get laid later, but I still don't see the point in waiting a full year before all this because the hardest parts of this divorce/seperation has been done and my STBX and I are still on talking terms.


well if i were you i would just to find other things to concentrate instead of getting laid, the others from TAM were right, getting laid just to make an excuse for your STBXW an excuse to bite you in the ass.



RandomDude said:


> Not to mention we have ZERO arguments in regards to shared custody and my daughter will be staying with me next week where I already have plans. Either than what happened this morning, it shouldn't get any worse right?


good keep it that way........ and don't mess around and date random people (you are not ready yet) 



RandomDude said:


> I know that I'm not ready at all for a new relationship, but I also don't want to go celibate either


how bout the "brothel" solution? but you said it reminds of your STBXW then what do you want?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm back to procastination today, I need time to gather myself after what just happened this morning. The only thing my ex can do is gather evidence against me when it comes to child custody but even then I don't know if she can really use that against me in AUS, but I can't be fked with legal advice today.

I haven't even dated yet and made this thread to discuss the morality of it yet still folks jumped down my throat and think of me as an a$$! Sheez!

As for dating, the NSA relationships in the past all those years ago some began with dates others were more straight to the point but I don't lie about my intentions with them. I'm not a player, I can understand now why it's not a good idea due to my daughter, but I don't see why I have to wait until emotional stability before NSAs.

It's not like I've suddenly decided to shun all responsibility or some crap like that, I'm NOT like that at all. SHEEZ and if you can give me a good reason then sure, I'll stay celibate, but right now I just don't see the point later on down the road.

The brothel solution is just not my style and it reminds me of my ex considering she used to be an escort. As for what I want, I want my life back not all this depressing unproductive crap and hell if I didn't harden up especially towards my ex, I would have been unable to even TELL my daughter about my ex and I.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Always the victim.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Always the victim.


See that? How classic can you get?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Read the thread you and your wife had a few months ago in the Ladies Lounge.

Compare it to this:

An Overview of the Drama Triangle


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright, now we're getting somewhere

EDIT: Ok, I don't really understand this...

I can't relate the example to mine, it's more of a toxic chess game in my marriage than a triangle with both parties playing "see who breaks first" and "my way or the highway" though yes, refusing to take responsibility for our own actions.

For most of the time on this forum, yes I admit to being drunk, and shunning off advice until it clicked after I quit drinking - yes that's recent, only this year so it can't redeem me at all. Yes I've realised that I've played more of a part in my wife's situation that I first thought. I took responsibility for it, quit cold turkey, became more vulnerable, stopped flirting completely, tried time and time again to show her that I do love her. But it was too late, the damage has been done. The damage that I have done.

It led to this point, but how could I possibly have fixed it now? I couldn't, and my wife's terms I just can't submit to them. I am not blaming her for what she did knowing that I haven't been a good husband and I've owned up to that. But nor am I going to go back to that marriage, and I have explained the reasons why as well - we've fked up. Neither of us are saints and never claimed to be.

Anyways why are you even trying to help me with this? My marriage is over. It's done, and there's nothing not even the gods can fix. I'm now trying to move on from it all

EDIT: Actually, now I'm curious which thread?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* Come to think of it though...



> I’ve some*times referred to the vic*tim tri*an*gle as a “shame gen*er*a*tor” because through it we uncon*sciously re-enact painful life themes that cre*ate shame. This has the effect of rein*forc*ing old, painful beliefs that keep us stuck in a lim*ited ver*sion of reality.


I shouldn't have done what I did that night, I was impatient, refused to see the progress she had made, instead I saw only the negatives, the games, the manipulations, and I started a drama. MC was right in that, and I had no cause to argue with her.

Hell sometimes reflecting on all this makes me feel one has to be perfect to even make a marriage work

But it's too late, it was too late ages ago, I simply can no longer live with her

Ne ways, what's done is done, reflecting is just pointless now as it's over, but hey, not like I'm even in the mood to do ANYTHING today. So why the hell not

EDIT: Wait a minute... HOW THE FK COULD I HAVE JUST CALLED IT "PROGRESS" when in truth looking back, there was none... fk now I'm just confused about right/wrong

Lets just stick to thread, my past marriage I can't even comprehend it anymore


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If you can't work out what went wrong, how you contributed and what you can do differently next time, you'll never have a successful relationship. Maybe that's okay, not everyone wants a LTR. But you need to find some insight into yourself somewhere and learn to question things more accurately. 

Over and over I've read you mentioning being on the streets at 12. I think you're stuck at the emotional age of 12 and until and unless you can find a way to mature, this is going to happen to you over and over again. 

One phrase in this thread jumped out at me. You can't take the risk *of your daughter hating you*. Can you see what's wrong with that statement? 

I'm a parent too. In your situation, what I would not be able to stand the thought of would be my daughters' pain. *Their pain*. Not worry over them hating me, frankly that wouldn't even register. They can hate me for the rest of their lives, as long as they are happy and fulfilled. 

That one phrase is very telling. It's showing you are still basically at the centre of your own universe, and you see your daughter and I suppose your wife as satellites. You're not emotionally mature, you're stuck at adolescence. Maybe your wife is too, no wonder you were such a disaster together. 

I'm truly sorry it's come to this for you, your wife and especially your daughter. Damaged people shouldn't come together and make new people, but there's no way to stop it. Maybe you can work to stop it happening again at least and make sure your daughter gets enough counselling and other support so she doesn't grow up to continue this bull****.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you are doing the right thing for your wife and daughter. 

I am concerned that when your wife moves on, you may interfere in her life with some drama. But please don't do it. It is best for both of you is to move on from this period in your lives. 

Make your daughter the most important person in your life. She needs that. A respectful and drama-free relationship with her mother is very important. 

Be good to her mother for your daughters sake. That will keep her love and help her grow up mentally healthy. 

Your wife sounds strong. I'll bet when she has makes up her mind, it's like a switch.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Lyris

I understand where you're coming from actually, but it's off. Well if you want to know why I mentioned it, it's because people seem to misjudge me due to my lack of emotions when it comes to my wife during difficult times. They seem to think if one is hardened, such as in my case, and the reasons why I'm able to harden, then I must never have loved my wife. Like come on!

And I don't see the relation between mentioning something and automatically being emotionally stuck at the age of 12 or whatever. Lets say I woke up with a huntsman on my face at 7, then used this story to express my thoughts in terms of fear and overcoming it, does that make me also emotionally stuck at 7? Stuck with fear of spiders? I'm sorry, but I've matured past that, same with my past on the streets. But certain things from my childhood I do take with me, this hardening for example, it will always be a part of me - can't change it now, and don't want it, it seems to be a rather useful mechanism.

My childhood taught me to how to get sh-t done and shut off what I don't need to think or feel. The best way is of course to deal with situations with both mental and emotional stability. However I no longer have that luxury in my situation, that stability is not there, my mind is all over the place, so I have to rely on it. 

As for my daughter, I'm PAST that stage of not being able to stand her in pain. It's called having to break a promise that you've made to your daughter before and after she was born, it's called having to DO what your parents did, and see yourself in your daughter's eyes. I doubt you can even understand that, you WEREN'T THERE last night, and you WEREN'T THERE this morning. And sheez, you really know how to insult someone but you seem sincere with your observations so I'm discussing this with you.

How did you come to that conclusion simply because I also worry about her hating me in the future? Divorce and pain was not the only thing I suffered as a child. I've suffered hate too. Hate against my parents when I was at a young age and justified every nasty piece of work that I did in the past. Hate instilled from both abandonment as well as my mother's poisoning. I've seen what hate has done in my life, so of course I'm FKING WORRIED. I'm surprised you don't even consider this as a parent yourself, but if you have been there, you would know. I wanted to protect my daughter from all this but I've fked up. I'm past the stage of thinking I can be the dad that I never had for her. I'm past that naivete thinking. 

You can't take everything out of context Lyris


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I think you are doing the right thing for your wife and daughter.
> 
> I am concerned that when your wife moves on, you may interfere in her life with some drama. But please don't do it. It is best for both of you is to move on from this period in your lives.


I'm not interested in her life anymore Catherine, nor am I interested in anymore dramas though it is true I seem to make my own sometimes. Like this case. Couldn't help myself last night though especially when I had to somehow cheer up and deal with my customers with a smiling face. And I'm not in a position where I could have just called in sick, I have my own business.

Hell to be honest the only reason I'm financially secure but still have free time is because I hire supervisors and give them every responsibility except for directing and management which they can easily demand a higher salary for. When I'm needed at work, I'm needed at work, doesn't matter if I'm missing a leg.



> Make your daughter the most important person in your life. She needs that. A respectful and drama-free relationship with her mother is very important.
> 
> Be good to her mother for your daughters sake. That will keep her love and help her grow up mentally healthy.
> 
> Your wife sounds strong. I'll bet when she has makes up her mind, it's like a switch.


We are, the one good thing about this seperation is that my STBX and I are in agreement now, when it comes to our daughter it's good that she can finally see that even though she had to witness the family split for herself... *sigh*

My STBX has not repeated an episode like that night, and it's good that we're moving along from that, we've been each other's poison for too long. She seems stronger now yes, and at least she's not being unreasonable in terms of settlement - getting back together is another story for obvious reasons. We both want the peace, now more than ever.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Actually Lyris, come to think of it, because your post actually reminded me years ago -> the two things you mentioned -
1) Emotionally stuck at 12
2) Fear of daughter's hate

I'll give you something else, since I have nothing better to do -> I do remember being emotionally stuck at 12, For all my crimes, theft, assault, whatever and I blamed it all on what? Yup, you guessed it -> Hate at my parents. Can you see how the two are interwined? 

I know that hate very well, I only grew up from 12 after I learnt to forgive and reconcile. But I've never forgotten.


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> This is a discussion forum, I agree with some, disagree with others. I take what I can get and what fits to my situation. How do you expect me to take advice that doesn't fit? And how can you say I don't listen? Do you guys even READ my posts? Or do you just like to drop accusations on random pages after reading just the OP or whatever your impression of me at the time?
> 
> It's impossible to lay EVERYTHING out on the table with words over an online forum, if that makes folk judge me for being stubborn (yes I am) then pffft, what the hell you expect me to do?
> 
> ...


If you only want to hear what you like to hear, you will never change. I guess you don't want to change. If you don't change, your life will always be full of drama. No matter who you live with, you will have lots of problems with that person. 

One day when you tell yourself, " I was wrong, I feel ashamed of myself. I shouldn't have acted like that." Then congratulations! Only then you will start to become a new man.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's too easy to fall into a trap of believing everything I hear. I did that a few times, I have to filter out the good and bad advice, as anyone has to do. Am I at fault for this?

I already have a 20 page thread reflecting on my marriage and what I've done to destroy it. Should I bring it up in every thread I make? It's over, I fked up, have to suck it up, move on, and keep going. And it's not just one mistake I've made and need to learn from, it's TONS, all the way from the very first moment I saw her.

But it's done, I've realised my flaws. I can't change my wife, she's gone now and I don't deny that I have done as much damage to her as she has to me. I do not see the point in dwelling on it however, there is reflection on a subject, and there's just thinking too much.

Which by now, you've realised was (uhum... still is) also another flaw of mine, and that caused dramas by itself. But this is something I still struggle to fix, and it's a personal one


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Finding peace in life is not about what others have done to you, it's not about other people's faults. It's about meditation of yourself. Ask yourself what kind of problems you have and what you can do to change it. And there is only one way you can change yourself, "Be humble first". 

As for forums, the advice you get is human's advice. I think if I tell you whose advice you should listen, you will laugh at me. Jesus, Buddha, seek wisdom from them. Read books about them. Will you do it or not? I doubt it.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course, what do you think I've done for the last 20 pages in that other thread of mine?

I wanted to stop posting there since I no longer saw the point in reflecting on it especially when I didn't get anything done and my STBX and I were both sitting on the fence dwindling our thumbs wondering how the fk we were going to do it. Especially when folks were trying to help me when it's already over, I felt bad about wasting folks time, so it's done.

The very sad thing is that if my STBX and I have always had this co-operative dynamic and took our marriage seriously from the start NONE OF THIS would have probably happened. But anyways, ack, I'm dragging on and on... why are folks just loving to get me started about my marriage again and again! It's OVER! That 20 page thread on the ladies lounge is right over there, and it's done.

Anyways, as I mentioned, there's a time to reflect on what ifs and learn from one's mistakes but there's also a time when one just has to keep moving forward. As of right now, I have other problems


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

RD I've read a lot of your posts because there's something about you that I find intriguing. I think it's the combination of very articulate, evocatively written posts, obvious high intelligence, and what seems to me to be almost total lack of understanding of your own emotional inner life and that of your wife. 

You have posted and posted and posted and obiviously given a huge amount of time to thinking about your wife and her motives, but she still seems like a total enigma to you. A woman you've known for a decade or so. 

And yes, I say stuck at 12 because that's how that reads. A kind of unthinking solipsism comes through generally in your posts. A black and white type of thinking too, this is so clearly illustrated by your wondering if it would be a good idea to go on a date with some random waitress four hours after your wife and the mother of your child moved out of your house.

You clearly suffered great trauma in a very vulnerable stage of your development. You don't get over that kind of thing without really hard work and years of intensive therapy, usually. Hardening off from feelings or whatever, is a good survival technique, but not a long term plan for emotional health. 

Just one more example, you can't be over the worry of breaking your promise to your daughter in two days, or however long it's been. That's a pain you will be dealing with forever. 

And yes, although I would be very very sad for myself if my daughters hated me, as long as they themselves were healthy and as whole as could be expected for people who hated their mother, I would prefer that to them loving me still and being in pain over things I had done. 

I have seen the damage an emotionally immature parent who can't separate herself and her feelings from her children's feelings causes. My MIL was a classic BPD with zero emotional insight or honesty, and her son, my husband, still struggles with that legacy, as does his sister. 

I think you have the potential to be a really great father. But right now I still think you see your daughter as primarily an addendum to you, rather than a person in her own right. Lots of parents never get past that and die thinking their kids owe them stuff, and never really seeing them as separate people. You could do a lot better than that.


----------



## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Stop using the word " STBX", I don't think you are serious about having a divorce. 

You are still like a little boy, fight, get angry, then make up and forget. I have read too many your threads. You get angry and you tell the world you want to divorce, but then the next day you and your wife are wrestling in bed again. 

Stop talking about divorce, change yourself first!!!!


----------



## the liberal one (Nov 4, 2012)

after reading this page i pretty much agree with greenpearl on this one lyris might have been too harsh on you random dude but after reading your threads/post all over again you really need to fix yourselves first. i know you and your W (not stbxw) had struggle earlier on the relationship but is it worth it to throw your marriage away despite your struggle?

A divorce is not a quick way to avoid all the problems and **** you are getting (a year separation period)..... and also i can be quite costly

bottom line is that you seemed to be getting more deranged from this issue, first you don't love her, then all hell broke lose and after that moving on. You had a really negative view on your w and seems like you don't really listen to TAM's advice and always try to convince advice what you want to hear


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lyris said:


> RD I've read a lot of your posts because there's something about you that I find intriguing. I think it's the combination of very articulate, evocatively written posts, obvious high intelligence, and what seems to me to be almost total lack of understanding of your own emotional inner life and that of your wife.


Oh you should see me when I'm drunk! The complete opposite! :rofl:
Sometimes I wonder if I was actually more balanced as an alcoholic compared to now. Too much IQ makes one stupid it seems, booze actually made me smarter lol... I'm kidding, sorry, but I need to lighten the mood, been fking down all day



> You have posted and posted and posted and obiviously given a huge amount of time to thinking about your wife and her motives, but she still seems like a total enigma to you. A woman you've known for a decade or so.
> 
> And yes, I say stuck at 12 because that's how that reads. A kind of unthinking solipsism comes through generally in your posts. A black and white type of thinking too, this is so clearly illustrated by your wondering if it would be a good idea to go on a date with some random waitress four hours after your wife and the mother of your child moved out of your house.
> 
> You clearly suffered great trauma in a very vulnerable stage of your development. You don't get over that kind of thing without really hard work and years of intensive therapy, usually. Hardening off from feelings or whatever, is a good survival technique, but not a long term plan for emotional health.


I agree, it's not a good long term solution at all. But as of now I need it. Yes I've been there with therapy, and it was futile, the only thing that helped me overcome it was forgiveness of my parents. Unfortunately since I had to "fix" myself it's just like giving oneself a haircut -> you tend to miss a few spots at the back lol

Still, no one could help me at that time, I've tried numerous counsellors in my youth trying to get myself fixed but none could understand. I had the priviledge of meeting others who have been there done that sure, but they still couldn't understand. I was a brutal animal back then, unfeeling, psychotic and simply messed up. After forgiving my parents - I no longer felt that way again. I still have anger issues but never like back then - hell I don't think I would even call it anger issues back then.

I've come a long way but give me a break, yeah? I've had to do this by myself back in the day, and I was an amateur giving myself brain surgery. I do agree with my counsellor as well as you when you mentioned it can't be long term, but as of this moment I don't see why not use it when I have it.



> Just one more example, you can't be over the worry of breaking your promise to your daughter in two days, or however long it's been. That's a pain you will be dealing with forever.


It's a pain I want to feel later, not now. I just lost FKING EVERYTHING FFS. I know my limits, and I've reached it. I just can not function allowing myself to feel it. I've already been forced to feel it twice, the second time was the worst. But I have to push on.



> And yes, although I would be very very sad for myself if my daughters hated me, as long as they themselves were healthy and as whole as could be expected for people who hated their mother, I would prefer that to them loving me still and being in pain over things I had done.
> 
> I have seen the damage an emotionally immature parent who can't separate herself and her feelings from her children's feelings causes. My MIL was a classic BPD with zero emotional insight or honesty, and her son, my husband, still struggles with that legacy, as does his sister.
> 
> I think you have the potential to be a really great father. But right now I still think you see your daughter as primarily an addendum to you, rather than a person in her own right. Lots of parents never get past that and die thinking their kids owe them stuff, and never really seeing them as separate people. You could do a lot better than that.


So, you want me to stop hardening up and making emotionless decisions? Well... *sigh* yes I want that too. This "demon" of mine has been stuck in my head pretty much since D-day, it kicked in and stopped me from feeling. I've never hardened up before like this... for a very, very long time. I didn't even recognise it until recently when I went from love to complete indifference towards my wife.

But unfortunately I don't really know how to even get rid of it and I don't want to disgard it and then make a BRAINLESS decision. If you know what I mean? I feel like I'm on a conveyor belt with sh-t poking at me at the moment and I'm trying to keep myself from insanity... again.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Stop using the word " STBX", I don't think you are serious about having a divorce.
> 
> You are still like a little boy, fight, get angry, then make up and forget. I have read too many your threads. You get angry and you tell the world you want to divorce, but then the next day you and your wife are wrestling in bed again.
> 
> Stop talking about divorce, change yourself first!!!!


LOL @ Not being serious

Of course I'm not, I just broke my daughter's heart twice for no reason whatsoever and spent money on PI, legal advice, and ready to lose half of my assets because hey... I'm NOT being serious. Pffft

Sorry Greenpearl, but both my wife and I, we've been serious since the night when all this happened. The fights/makeup were childish yes, during the good times it was a brilliant dynamic, we didn't take anything seriously and we had fun. But during the bad times sure, it was childish and it was wrong.

And you forget that I've only ever used the D word once before all this. And that was when I first joined this forum due to inter-religious issues my wife and I had. As insane as you may think of my STBX and I, we did respect boundaries in terms of what gets thrown around.

Stop trying to bring us back together, it's not happening. We both want to seperate and if my wife ends up being NON serious I will never forgive her because my daughter did not just go through all that for nothing. The thresholds have already been crossed, there's NO going back.

Why is everyone trying to make me look back? Neither my wife and I can do it, and not to mention we are actually BETTER like this - look at the sh-t we can actually do together when we're not fighting each other! What's done is done, this is the best decision we've made since the day we married.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mate, my STBX and I have both decided - FORWARD, not back. I know you guys mean well but what we've decided. And all of this was sealed by our own daughter's tears. You think I could ever forgive her if she's not serious? Would you? Would ANY PARENT?

Yes I've gone "insane", it's the coping mechanism which Lyris and I are discussing, it's borderline psychopathy - I know of this because I remember feeling like this for 6 years until I turned 18 but was much, MUCH worse... hell you have no idea.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

RD -- If you are out flirting with the idea of dating or NSA's then you need to fire your PI. If you intend on going out and whoring around, there is no reason for you to know if your wife is doing the same.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Already done


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Well whatever happens I wish the best for you and your wife, and most importantly your little girl


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

RD,

First off, I'm sorry it's come to this point for you and your whole family. 

But... I have to agree with Conrad, with regards to most questions asked with the least amount of listening (or implementing) the responses. I'll also add that your avatar has been VERY appropriate.

Having said all that... I went through my own separation coming up on two years ago. I started dating shortly after I separated. It was supposed to be just fun monkey sex (which it was!), but it fairly quickly turned into more than that (we've been seeing each other since then).

My advice to you... Focus on yourself and your child. Heal yourself, and work on understanding your part in your failed marriage, so it doesn't happen again. Do the things that you put off doing while you were married, take some classes, whatever. But spend time on yourself first, before you lose yourself in another relationship. As much as you think it's just NSA sex, you're not a teenager anymore, and with sex often comes an emotional connection, which just snowballs from there.

Good luck!

C


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> It's too easy to fall into a trap of believing everything I hear. I did that a few times, I have to filter out the good and bad advice, as anyone has to do. Am I at fault for this?


RandomDude asks a question.

3-4 pages of good discussion result. RandomDude seems curious. Asks a few follow-ups from the people that give the most appropriate feedback.

Final post..

Meh!, if I were to do THAT, then she'd do THIS, and we'd be right back.. if SHE's expecting me to Bah!...

After a couple of years of this, what did you really expect? Did you think you were going to outlast and/or convince her of something?

How many times did you simply go right back to the booze and make sure you "didn't believe everything you heard"

How'd that work for you?


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I can understand the need to feel loved, when you've been feeling so used for such a long time. 

I would even compare it to having a FWB for a few years, with sex 3x a day. Then you ask for more. Not to just be used for sex. She says she's leaving unless she gets what she wants. Ouch. 

It didn't go down quite that way.... but the feelings are similar.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Our daughter is fine, she's not acting up no more, and I've already told this "date" the situation, she understood but said "it doesn't have to be serious" so I guess I have an option to go to once things settle down.

There's no longer any point in dwelling on my past marriage. As much damage I have done and as much dramas I have caused due to my own frustration and impatience, it's over. You guys have repeated to me "boundaries" "boundaries" over and over and yes I didn't listen, and when I did finally listen, I fked it up because I never really understood the correct approach of establishing it until now, and now is too late.

It would seem the impression you guys of me is based on the impression I have built over the first 1.5 years of being here. Since I quit the alcohol I've done what you guys adviced me on; end the fights as much as possible, just live life, show her affection, stop the flirting, stop the drinking. Boundaries she never took seriously, so I needed help with that, so I had to persuade her into MC, then she just kept b-tching about MC and continued not taking things seriously, how can I be responsible for her behaviour?

I ask again, how can I be responsible for her behaviour?
I don't start sh-t for no reason especially not since quitting the booze

My wife however never changed, so if I look back at all that, yes I know the damage I have done, but what do you expect me to do now?
Is there some miracle advice that you guys have been giving me that I still don't get? There's nothing I can do now, there's nothing I could have done to save this marriage when the damage has already been done no matter how much I changed. All I hear from you guys is "you never listen to advice", so I ask, what advice for my situation?

Dwell on it? I've already dwelled on it for 20 pages on my other thread.

You think I brought up that drama with my wife because I wanted the drama? You believe I started the fight for no reason, when I know that I did not. So when you just keep telling me "you are addicted to drama" the "advice" just doesn't stick. Perhaps for the first 1.5 years it stuck, but since quitting alcohol - which you guys haven't even noticed, let alone read on my progress it seems. I'm sorry, but the advice you have given me in terms of being addicted to drama no longer sticks.

I've tried my best when I've realised our toxic dynamics, I know my mistakes but I'm not going to dwell on it. Marriage is a two-way street, I can't be a miracle worker and take responsibility for 100% of what has happened which sometimes it seems that's what you guys are asking of me. My STBX was not an easy woman to deal with.

As for being heartless instead of dwelling on the pain, that's my personal choice for now until things are more settled. I've learnt what I could from dwelling on my past marriage.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

As for this situation, let me illustrate it for you folks

Situation: Eve of seperation, had to work, busy night, foul mood, mentally and emotionally torn, had to smile for customers, didn't know how
What happened: Hired four additional casual staff through the agency to help out for the night, still could not focus on work, joked around with staff to cheer myself up, didn't work, flirted with casual worker, she flirted back, continued flirting, finished up service, didn't want to lead her on, exchanged numbers. And that was that.

It got me through the night with a smile, lest it becomes a disaster, and now I have a casual date when I'm ready for sex which can be a few weeks from now or so, so overall... I don't see how it's a bad thing. Perhaps for my STBX, but who knows what she herself is doing, I didn't ask, I only called to speak to my daughter. I don't care about what she does anymore, I won't allow myself to.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

PBear said:


> My advice to you... Focus on yourself and your child. Heal yourself, and work on understanding your part in your failed marriage, so it doesn't happen again. Do the things that you put off doing while you were married, take some classes, whatever. But spend time on yourself first, before you lose yourself in another relationship. As much as you think it's just NSA sex, you're not a teenager anymore, and with sex often comes an emotional connection, which just snowballs from there.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> C


Thanks, and yes today I'm feeling fresher, I'm getting over what just happened, still in a bit of a shock, but I'm calming down now, emotions are more stable but I no longer feel I have to control them. Had a good fresh air this morning too to greet me at work, a fking busy morning to catch up on everything.

As for the sex, I'm confident in keeping myself from emotional attachment in NSAs, I did it for a while back in the day. You just have to be honest with 'em, and hey, you get sex available without the BS. It forfills a bodily function, and lets me live my life without relationship responsibilities. Right now, that's what I have to do -> as I'm obviously not ready let alone interested in another freakin relationship or for another potential future ex wife. Heh future ex wife, think for the next darn woman I end up talking to would be "from the first time I saw you I knew straight away that you're going to be my future ex wife"! Heh... sorry, just trying to keep myself in good spirits so I can keep it together

I have a ton of free time now which I don't know what to do at least until my daughter comes home next week. I still need to discuss co-parenting classes with my STBX on monday as well. Oh well, might as well enjoy the rest of the weekend, or at least try to.


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> As for the sex, I'm confident in keeping myself from emotional attachment in NSAs, I did it for a while back in the day.


So you wanted your wife to treat you like "more than just a d**k" but you are out looking for women to treat you like "just a d**k" ??


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DawnD said:


> So you wanted your wife to treat you like "more than just a d**k" but you are out looking for women to treat you like "just a d**k" ??


I only need it once a week, I'm human remember? And I'm in late 20s, still young! 
Not 21x a freakin week

And I'm not looking, I don't really have to, it just happens. I'm just going with whatever comes right now, get sh-t done, get my life settled into single-daddyhood, and I should be fine.

I don't think I'll be ready for another relationship for a very long time, you guys are right, and to be honest, I am no longer interested. I'm done for life.


----------



## suesmith (Jan 5, 2012)

Irony : Separating from your wife because she wanted too much sex, then, on the day she is moving out, getting a ladys phone number to meet for sex because you are horny. 

Yes.. I know you decided you didnt want to meet her.(good call) Yes, I know a booty call isnt sex 3 times a day... but I just find this whole scenario ironic.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

RD, I have some observations that I think you should consider for the future. 

How did you manage to force yourself to have sex 3 times a day, year after year? You did this to satisfy your wife and not for yourself. 

This shows a level of sacrifice that is amazing. Yet you can turn it off in a matter of a day? 

I seem's superhuman that you both devoted so much time and effort to sex three times every day. 

In addition, find the time to sleep, take care of a child, start a successful business, shop for food and supplies, cook, eat and do the normal activities of daily living like eating, bathing and sleeping, shop for food and cook. 

You sound like a smart guy. Why were you not able to take steps to stop the unwanted sexual activity? 

You could tell her you can't get it up or not come home in the afternoon because you were too busy with your business? 

You had a fight in the process of a successful attempts to change a problem in your marriage that existed for years. The conflict was really unnecessary in my opinion. 

You took all of that investment in time, energy and shared history, to chase sex with random women. 

I don't know how you can decompress from a life filled with so much activity in the matter of a few days to have sex with random women. Don't you see a problem with that?


----------



## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> I only need it once a week, I'm human remember? And I'm in late 20s, still young!
> Not 21x a freakin weekThere is this thing, called masturbating.
> 
> And I'm not looking, I don't really have to, it just happens. I'm just going with whatever comes right now, get sh-t done, get my life settled into single-daddyhood, and I should be fine.BS. You admit you were flirting with her, which means you were looking for attention.
> ...


You really might want to look in to why you are soooo concerned with finding someone to sleep with. Yes, you are human. But avoiding dealing with what just happened will come back to bite you in the arse.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> There is this thing, called masturbating.


Sure, and that's what I'm doing for now



> BS. You admit you were flirting with her, which means you were looking for attention.


I always get the attention, I'm still young and fit. She looked available and while trying to cheer myself up, it went from joking to fun-flirting to flirting. Yes it was wrong, but at least some good came out from it after all.



> You really might want to look in to why you are soooo concerned with finding someone to sleep with. Yes, you are human. But avoiding dealing with what just happened will come back to bite you in the arse.


What's there to even discuss about my past marriage? There's nothing else to dwell on. This forum has already helped me figure out what went wrong.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

And you identified it?

I'd be interested in your summary.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh*

Over the 4 years, no wait, 5 years, game-playing, toxic love/hate dynamics, stubbornness to each other and fighting each other over the "throne", mind-****ing, poor timing with fights, stupidity, bad temper, alcoholism, lack of faith, insensitivity, flirting with other women, pushing her to the point of insecurity, confusing her, being a "roller coaster" ride, lack of understanding of boundaries, lack of understanding of how to approach establishing firm but fair boundaries, rug-sweeping, hardening up instead of being strong for her, lack of vulnerability, lack of support for her, selfishness and impatience, focused on the negatives, failed to encourage her positives. Some things I tried to change, others were too late, it's over.

I don't blame her for leaving, I've made an ultimatum when she wasn't ready for one. But it's over, and to be honest it was a long time coming, nothing I can do now. I've fallen out of love, and she probably has too. I'm just thankful that we're no longer fighting. If anything considering how well we are co-operating now since the seperation, if time permits we may be able to salvage a friendship out of all of this.

But enough, whats done is done. I had to lose everything to see it.
Despite what I've done I'm not letting guilt rule over me, I've forgiven myself and her but I will not forget. So leave my past marriage alone, please. I've had enough of it.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is TAM so that's what we talk about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And right now I prefer to focus on talking about moving on from marriage and dealing with seperation and divorce.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sighs* Who am I kidding... I don't know, guess my emotions are coming back little by little each and every day.

I feel bad for her now, looking back at all this, why?

It seems my emotions are coming back from a few days of hardening up to deal with the emotional trauma. Now... I feel frankly awful for my STBX, all she ever really wanted was to feel loved, even though she sought it through sex and was unable to appreciate non-sexual forms of love. If only I was a more patient man, it's strange at all the revelations coming through ONLY after seperation. I shouldn't dwell on it but...

Right now I just wish she finds someone she loves and who loves her, who understands her and who is able to give her the life she does deserve, and also, to help and support her through dealing her flaws, not impatiently forcing her to change or else. She's still a beautiful woman, fun to be around, smart, one can have long deep conversations (and arguments!) with her, unlike the shallow conversations of many women I've met, very proficient and adventurous as well when she wants to be. 

Perfectionist housewife as well, her future husband will be blessed by the home she provides for him. I wish she can find that person, who can appreciate the good things about her. I only hope she can move on and soon, she has alot still going for her, and still young in her early 30s too.
She believes in her God, and although I don't, I have to ask you guys if you believe, to pray for her... I found myself praying too, bleh, I hate her god but I prayed anyway so if he's out there he should see how freakin' annoyed I am with him and he'd better find a better man than me for her!!! And soon! Right now for some reason I wish I can change my face and sneak back into her life as her best friend as we used to be, and help her find someone who can treat her right. Why am I thinking about her like this? Is it guilt? What is it? Should I shut out these thoughts? Or maybe I just realised I can't really hate her or blame her for being the way she was? She's had a tough life, with and without me, and for what it's worth, I will always respect her as a person.

Or is this just a natural way of closing this chapter of my life?


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Way too soon, RD. Wait until the dust has settled on your separation / divorce papers before even thinking of dating. There's enough for you to be thinking about right now, and you know you're not ready yet.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I know, but I'm not interested in dating exactly, let alone relationships/marriage


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I just want to point out - as biased and unfair as it might be - if you intend to have specific legal arbitration with the STBX about custody/visitation and the like, you might want to ponder the potential ramifications of your contact with your daughter by starting sexual conquests right away. 

Starting ONS or anything of the sort, if things don't remain as harmonious and cooperative as they are now between the two of you, so soon after the separation could be a mark against you in legal proceedings. Any smart lawyer will get a hold of that info (yes, sometimes the opposition hires a PI of their own) and make a case about irresponsibility, and a disruptive home, etc, etc.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> *sighs* Who am I kidding... I don't know, guess my emotions are coming back little by little each and every day.
> 
> I feel bad for her now, looking back at all this, why?
> 
> ...


Separation is chocker full of revelations. It's a lot to do with being off of the drama triangle, as our mind and emotions begin to relax giving us space to begin to see and understanding things we were blind to before. My revelations keep coming even after three years. Mind you in my case there’s 42 years to look back on and ponder.


You’ve a long way to get as yet, you haven’t even started to grieve what you’ve lost.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Starstarfish said:


> I just want to point out - as biased and unfair as it might be - if you intend to have specific legal arbitration with the STBX about custody/visitation and the like, you might want to ponder the potential ramifications of your contact with your daughter by starting sexual conquests right away.
> 
> Starting ONS or anything of the sort, if things don't remain as harmonious and cooperative as they are now between the two of you, so soon after the separation could be a mark against you in legal proceedings. Any smart lawyer will get a hold of that info (yes, sometimes the opposition hires a PI of their own) and make a case about irresponsibility, and a disruptive home, etc, etc.


You're right, I realised this last night on a potentially volatile conversation with my STBX. I really can't afford to p-ss her off anytime soon. I've been business-minded with her since agreeing to D, however last night she kept taunting me with **** like "I never really meant much to you" etc etc, and I don't know if she's trying to seek closure or if she's just trying to make me feel guilty.

I have thus far avoided her taunts. I don't think I'm going to have sex with another woman until I am convinced she is emotionally stable and she has moved on and no longer cares. As of right now, I don't know.



AFEH said:


> Separation is chocker full of revelations. It's a lot to do with being off of the drama triangle, as our mind and emotions begin to relax giving us space to begin to see and understanding things we were blind to before. My revelations keep coming even after three years. Mind you in my case there’s 42 years to look back on and ponder.
> 
> 
> You’ve a long way to get as yet, you haven’t even started to grieve what you’ve lost.


Yes, in fact it seems this seperation was actually well... needed
Walking around the empty house makes you remember and regret, I don't think I would have seen my own mistakes as clearly if we didn't seperate.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't think I'm much different from most people... but the first separation sometimes doesn't stick. Like stopping drinking or smoking, it's not always a good clean break. (unless they are running into the arms of someone else and you don't want them back).

It might take a few tries before you separate for good and then divorce. That's why even the laws about waiting a year include clauses that you can reconcile for up to 90 days before it's considered null and void. The clock doesn't start again unless you live together for a full 90 + days. It's common.

So don't take it as a setback. It happens. A lot. The ride probably isn't over yet. And there is a chance that separating is the catalyst you both need to get back together in a better way. Consider being open to that.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes, it would be much easier if she had cheated or something, can really solidify the seperation/divorce with 0 hope of reconciliation. Unfortunately we don't have that, we've seperated due to our dynamics reaching the breaking point. Now we're apart, and I've realised I could have done things alot better, but I was blind, emotionally haywire, and could not see it. I don't know if she's realising her own mistakes as well, all I know right now is that she's trying to find out from me whether I actually even loved her (read above) or something - I don't know.

Knowing one's mistakes isn't the same as changing one's flaws however, I don't think I'm ready for reconciliation, nor her and if we do decide to reconcile later down the track, we'll need to lay down fresh new ground rules and really have new healthier dynamics. But even then, I don't want to think that my daughter went through all that for nothing.

I don't know if I'm open for it, but I do know we're both not ready. I need to go through this phase, this is the only way I can see what went wrong. What I do know is that I'm less psycho now


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Coming in late RD, just wanted to say it sucks and I remember when you first joined a couple a years ago. Hard to believe its ending like this but I only hope for the best for you.

My thoughts are with you.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

That's wonderfully honest. 

No, you're not ready for anything, agreed. But sooo glad to read what you wrote. Including what you said about your daughter. Know that even THIS is better for her, she will learn a lot from this too. No matter what happens, won't things be better for her? Either you will divorce, she will have a happy dad, or you will both learn from mistakes and come back together as a better couple. Win win. Really. Think of what she will learn. That you did this to make her life better.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks bro, but I'm sure we needed this, think we needed this 5 years ago. Looking back it seems thats how it fked up. Our foundations were screwed 5 years ago.

Back in 2007, when we were both bf/gf we already had issues beginning from inter-religious issues after she joined bible college. I cheated, we broke up for almost a year, we reconciled but never dealt with the issues that split us in the first place, we began sleeping with each other again, then she fell pregnant, and all this started.

Was a horrid foundation, no wonder our dynamics were so screwed up.
*sigh*


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

deejov said:


> That's wonderfully honest.
> 
> No, you're not ready for anything, agreed. But sooo glad to read what you wrote. Including what you said about your daughter. Know that even THIS is better for her, she will learn a lot from this too. No matter what happens, won't things be better for her? Either you will divorce, she will have a happy dad, or you will both learn from mistakes and come back together as a better couple. Win win. Really. Think of what she will learn. That you did this to make her life better.


=/
Hmmm, never thought of it that way
Thanks for that!

Her pain is still fresh in my mind though, I can only believe that when I see her smile again, she's coming back to stay by the end of the week.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

To be honest it feels like we were living in a snow globe the last 4 years. We couldn't see what was happening because we were IN the snow globe, now there was tons of voices outside of the snow globe, and I guess we both took what made sense and couldn't project ourselves outside of the snow globe due to the fact that the only world we did know - was in the snow globe.

Now that we're out... well, I don't know about her, but I can see it. Funny, that drama triangle post is making a lot more sense now too
Seems like I'm much more emotionally stable now at least


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> *To be honest it feels like we were living in a snow globe the last 4 years.* We couldn't see what was happening because we were IN the snow globe, now there was tons of voices outside of the snow globe, and I guess we both took what made sense and couldn't project ourselves outside of the snow globe due to the fact that the only world we did know - was in the snow globe.
> 
> Now that we're out... well, I don't know about her, but I can see it. Funny, that drama triangle post is making a lot more sense now too
> Seems like I'm much more emotionally stable now at least


That’s an excellent description. It happens when people are truly bound to their ego with superglue. They see everything around them through the ears and eyes of their ego consciousness sometimes as though it’s a matter of life and death.

It’s why I recommend Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality: Anthony De Mello, J. Francis Stroud: 9780385249379: Amazon.com: Books so often here, it teaches how to step away from your ego and outside of that snow globe and hold it in your hand such that you just observe what’s going on without participating in the drama on the triangle.

And just by observing we see that we’ve totally changed the dynamics and slowly but surely change for the better begins to evolve.


You may well find that like me you will sacrifice a lot for that new found emotional stability of yours. Me I sacrificed the my relationship with the woman I loved, my relationship with my younger son and half my money. I fought almost desperately for emotional stability but couldn’t get there and be with my wife at the same time. It’s the number one reason I ended our very long marriage, I knew for certain it’d happen all over again in five or ten years time.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That book looks extremely familiar, I swear I saw a copy at our place lying around, never read it though, guess now is a good time to dig it out! My STBX has alot of these books, not sure if she read them too. Alot were donated/gifted by our mates - guess they were on to something after all. Thanks though

I actually feel really stupid come to think of it, looking back now instead of dealing with the issues properly I was still in the snow globe and was focused on getting my way (participating in the triangle as you said) instead of pulling back and looking at the whole situation from a better perspective.

As for emotionally stability and sacrifices, I'm just curious, if you guys had understood the problems in your marriage, how come it still didn't work out?


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Consider reading the book. You will have your answer.
The self awareness that you cannot change someone else, and when that does not coexist with your TRUE self, what else can you do?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I am

Well I'm going to rammage through her sh-t to find it in a few minutes, just having something to eat. If not I'll go for a drive, might get it second-hand. If not then I'll have to wait till it arrives.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Kobo desktop. You can download books to your pc and read them. Usually about 10 bucks a book. Just sayin


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks, I found this:

Awareness - Anthony De Mello By: Anthony De Mello - eBook - Kobo

Is that the same one?

Looks like it's free even! Now trying to freakin download... no I don't want your FB app I WANT MY BOOK -.-


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok I got it, or I think I got it, is the first chapter called "On waking up"?


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

YOu might have to register for Kobo (that's free) and then you download it to the kobo desktop app (yup, another download) but that app allows you to read e books on your pc, if you don't have an ereader


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Who doesn't have adobe reader? lol

EDIT: GOT IT! Thanks guys, ok reading time, nothing else to do today!

EDIT2: Erm... this book is... long :scratchhead:


----------

