# Aren't you all forcing someone to love you?



## Neonwhizz (May 26, 2011)

My story is simillar to many on this forum, so I won't write a long history of what happened. I found out 6 months ago that my partner (female) of 5 years had been cheating on me for the last 9 months, EA and PA, like others i felt like i had been hit by a train. We had in her words the kind of relationship that most other people never even get to experience, well so much for that. All the perfect memories, best times, holidays, evenings spent together, late night talks, holding hands every night when falling asleep, it all meant nothing. I didn't move away, was always there for her, our sex life was ongoing, varied and exciting, still it wasn't enough, she was working at home for a year then found a job and within a week started an affair with someone. So there you have it.

She is still at my flat, for another 5 months after DDay she prented to break off contact with him, i found out, we talked, she said that she was going to move in with him, they were looking for a place, reality hit, usual thing the relationship if you can call it that broke down, the guy wanted all the fun and none of the responsibility, she felt that he was not devoting enough time to her, no surprise there, when life gets in the way the affair becomes too much like a real relationship. Anyway now she is looking for her own place.

I have been reading this forum for the last 2 months, it has been very useful and probably the best website i have come across with the most level headed people writing on these boards.

My only question is, I understanding working on a relationship, I understand wanting someone back, I understand "the fog" i know all that, but aren't we all just trying to do something that is impossible, which is trying to make somebody else love us. That doesn't work, it can't. I have to accept that someone stopped loving me.

She is making moves towards me but i know i was a second choice, if someone loves you they just don't hurt you like that. Unless you admit to yourself that Love just doesn't exist.

Again, my question, fighting for someone is just trying to force them to love you which is impossible, let them go.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You can't force someone to love you.

Either they want to be with you or they don't. If someone wants out, open the door up for them and let them go.

If that person decides they want the marriage and are committed to working it out WITH you and you decide you want to be with them, too, then that is wonderful.


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## Neonwhizz (May 26, 2011)

I know you can't force someone to love you.

These forums are complete, correct and accurate, but the elephant in the room is that the other person, never did, stopped and never will love you again. So many people on these forums are fighting a loosing battle.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Even when in a committed relationship it's not a guarantee that they will always love you. You can never force it. All you can do is be the best spouse you can but the rest is really out of your control. There is freedom in that for me.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Every situation is different -- but yes, in some cases I'd agree with you. If you're trying to tear a cheater away from the OW/OM when they are just not willing to do so, I personally don't see the point. You cannot force someone to commit to you. You can force the situation (financially, logistically, etc.), but not the commitment. 

If the cheater has true remorse and recognizes the error of their ways and re-commits to making it work with heir spouse, although it may still not get worked out there is then something to work with, and to work toward -- a new & improved relationship with the (*ahem*) "benefit" of the experience as a harsh lesson learned.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

In your case, if you have already decided you don't want her back--stick with it. Now she's got to let you go.

Tables turn.

It takes two to keep it going. So if one wants out, no dice.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Neonwhizz said:


> Again, my question, fighting for someone is just trying to force them to love you which is impossible, let them go.


It's the perspective you choose to see during this process which determines everything.

A choice of perspective could be...

Your not forcing anyone to feel anything, afterall you can't. Your really not trying. This fighting your doing, your fighting for yourself as much or more than you fighting for someone else. You have an image of yourself, and your soul to satisfy here. Who you are as a husband and a father, as a mother and a wife or just as a person.

The expectation of action and the thresholds you set on this journey are your own. I expected myself to do certain things and act a certain way based on my image of who I am and what I stood for. Nothing to do with forcing anyone to love me, everything to do with being forced to do what i needed to do to love myself. regardless of outcome.


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## d1221 (Mar 13, 2011)

Neonwhizz said:


> My story is simillar to many on this forum, so I won't write a long history of what happened. I found out 6 months ago that my partner (female) of 5 years had been cheating on me for the last 9 months, EA and PA, like others i felt like i had been hit by a train. We had in her words the kind of relationship that most other people never even get to experience, well so much for that. All the perfect memories, best times, holidays, evenings spent together, late night talks, holding hands every night when falling asleep, it all meant nothing. I didn't move away, was always there for her, our sex life was ongoing, varied and exciting, still it wasn't enough, she was working at home for a year then found a job and within a week started an affair with someone. So there you have it.
> 
> She is still at my flat, for another 5 months after DDay she prented to break off contact with him, i found out, we talked, she said that she was going to move in with him, they were looking for a place, reality hit, usual thing the relationship if you can call it that broke down, the guy wanted all the fun and none of the responsibility, she felt that he was not devoting enough time to her, no surprise there, when life gets in the way the affair becomes too much like a real relationship. Anyway now she is looking for her own place.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## d1221 (Mar 13, 2011)

Neonwhiz,

I understand exactly what you are saying. this forum has been a tremendous help to me. Something I had to realize on my own was that I cannot make him do anything and dont want his actions to be a result of my efforts and feelings etc.. 

As much as I did not want to lose marriage I thought hmmmm I was cheated on why should I be trying to save something he walked away from when pursuing other women. If he did not fight for us, I am worth that and I cannot stay with someone who did not want to fight for me and our life together. I would have tried various things to work but its not worth it to give up apart of myself trying to make someone be committed & faithful to a relationship. 

I know there is no perfect answer but I wish the spouses that cheated would take more action to not lose their spouse if they want relationship to work out. They should say I will stop, please dont go etc...those things should be automatic vs making someone stay with us. It takes 2 willing people to work on relationship and recover from infidelity.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

Sad things is you can want someone more than anything in the world, but if that person does not want you, its best to let her go for the sake of both of you.

We all try to "fix" any and everything to make it work because there is a bond and it very hard to release that bond.

Infidelity however is another thing. Even if there is willingness to work on the relationship post PA, you must be honest with yourself in whether you can truly accept her and love her without resentment. 

If you feel the affair will always be hanging over your head and you simply cannot move past it, then the best things is to move on with the next chapter of your life --- without her.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My wife is going through that battle right now. 3 weeks post DDay (she had an EA with a long time friend). one week after DDAY I demanded the NC. She has honored it for two weeks now and hit a point where she is really struggling with the withdrawal from the OM. I guess that's the fog. I told her she has to make a choice. She deals with the withdrawal, continues honoring the NC, and works with me on a happier marriage. Or, she realizes the marriage isn't worth that pain. I am showing her love (Plan A) and awaiting her choice. She says, "I have a lot of thinking to do". Yep. And if she says losing her friend-turned-EA is too much and more important than saving our marriage, then I have to let her go. No begging or pleading. She said she wants to take 6 months to try to make it work with me, and see if she can get over losing her friend. If she wants to throw away our life and devastate our children to keep her friend, I will have to let her. Hoping she goes the other way but I can't force it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't think of Love as this dizzy, light-headed feeling. Its more like making someone soup when they're sick. Or going to an important doctor's appointment with them.

Its not a feeling - its what you do.

I don't think you can MAKE someone feel "dizzy" - but I think that when someone commits to a relationship, its realistic for them to keep trying and not just give up the first time they get "dizzy" from someone else.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I suppose you could look at your relationship as her "second choice" or you could look at it as her reliable, safe home. She stuck her neck out and found the security she wanted was not "out there" but at home all the time. You could use the experience as a deal breaker and nobody would blame you but you could also use it as a wake-up call for both of you. Maybe she learned to value what she had and maybe you learned to be more attentive. Whether this is a curse or a blessing depends on what you both do with it. Five years is a long time. From what you described, I believe I'd be inclined to give it a second go.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Neonwhizz said:


> My only question is, I understanding working on a relationship, I understand wanting someone back, I understand "the fog" i know all that, but aren't we all just trying to do something that is impossible, which is trying to make somebody else love us. That doesn't work, it can't. I have to accept that someone stopped loving me.


I would agree with you. Its an unbelievably painful way to find out your spouse isn't in love with you anymore, if for the only reason that people don't do that to someone they care about.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You're right. You can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. You can't force them to maintain NC, you can't force them to be transparent, you can't force them to do the MC/IC. They have to want it. None of this trying to woo them back, none of this trying to make yourself better than the OP or competing with the OP. All you are doing is setting yourself up for False R.

The Wayward Spouse has to do the heavy lifting of repairing the relationship willingly, that is the only road to R. If they aren't willing to do that then R is not possible because you are basically forcing them to love you. If you have to force them, its not worth the renewed pain from additional DDays, Trickle Truth, and False R. You have to accept that it is over. I learned this lesson the hard way from my first marriage.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

*"what a fool believes...he sees...*

.....no wise man has the power, to reason away"---michael mcDonald (of doobie bro fame).

i get yer pt u seem to reiterate several times whizz, but it 
is different in ea situation for others.

i mean, yeah there are those poor souls who r chasing after
someone who doesnt love them, sometimes in any shape or
form of the word. And too, there are those willing to be 
2nd, 3rd, whatever best to someone else due to poor 
self-esteem issues or $$$-security issues & so on.

seems to me u have yer mind made up already as u see it
how u see it soooooooo, "pull the lever" dude.


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## Neonwhizz (May 26, 2011)

I think there are different reasons for affairs, but let me say upfront there is no excuse for cheating on someone. Cheating means, having sex with someone else then coming home and living, sleeping and having sex with your live in partner, the cheater has become an individual that is now capable of inflicting the worst kind of hurt on another human being. You should divorce or split then look for someone else, we all know that.

I think there are 2 types of affair.

The first type, you are in a marriage with children, you partner has not shown you any affection for months or years, you feel trapped, your partner will not let you go but will not have a proper relationship with you, what can a person do in that situation? You might be stuck financially, so you have an affair, this could be worked at, but still, how does the dormant partner change and become loving all of a sudden and now with the added problem of knowing that they were cheated on, this is unlikely to work out.

The second type, pretty much nothing is wrong in the relationship, both partners are loving, both partners attentive, then one day one of them strays, in effect just found someone better, lets be honest they must have been better. So an affair happens, the person sleeps with 2 people at the same time, betraying the OM and their partner, how do you even begin to understand this type of affair? There is nothing to explain, it is sick, you can't define it any other way.

Little has been discussed on this forum, that during an affair, usually 2 people are being cheated on the current partner and the OM / OW. In some cases the OM / OW know that they are being cheated on but don't care, what does this say about them? The whole thing becomes an unholy, unreal mess, so both people in the affair are as bad as each other, and neither cares, they just get the hit, the thrill, but even that is not complete, because they have to hide their relationship, they have to sneak around to have sex, granted this may be part of the thrill but only up to a point, where is the peace, what future in this, how can they start a relationship by cheating on each other?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Neonwhizz said:


> Cheating means, having sex with someone else then coming home and living, sleeping and having sex with your live in partner, the cheater has become an individual that is now capable of inflicting the worst kind of hurt on another human being. You should divorce or split then look for someone else, we all know that.


Cheating doesn't just mean having sex outside the marriage. There is also the Emotional Affair. When the WS gives someone else their heart, sharing intimate thoughts, dreams, etc, that should be reserved for their partner. Also, investing emotional energy, time, and money toward their affair partner instead of their spouse and family. The EA is already cheating, and is only the prelude to a physical affair, which in most cases, is almost inevitable once talking on the phone, chatting, emailing, and texting aren't enough to satisfy them anymore, they will want to make their fantasy into reality and consumate the affair physically.



Neonwhizz said:


> I think there are 2 types of affair.


Some say there are 7 types.

7 Types of Extramarital Affairs and What to Do About Them



Neonwhizz said:


> The first type, you are in a marriage with children, you partner has not shown you any affection for months or years, you feel trapped, your partner will not let you go but will not have a proper relationship with you, what can a person do in that situation? You might be stuck financially, so you have an affair, this could be worked at, but still, how does the dormant partner change and become loving all of a sudden and now with the added problem of knowing that they were cheated on, this is unlikely to work out.


This sounds like the My Marriage Made Me Do It type affair. And its another cop out. There are other ways to wake the partner up like demand counseling or separation. Going outside the marriage to cheat is the easy way out instead of working on the problems. The betrayed spouse doesn't usually take this well, as they shouldn't.



Neonwhizz said:


> The second type, pretty much nothing is wrong in the relationship, both partners are loving, both partners attentive, then one day one of them strays, in effect just found someone better, lets be honest they must have been better. So an affair happens, the person sleeps with 2 people at the same time, betraying the OM and their partner, how do you even begin to understand this type of affair? There is nothing to explain, it is sick, you can't define it any other way.


The myth that affairs only happen in bad marriages has been proven false. They can happen in good marriages too, especially when the WS has very poor or no boundaries, or they fall down the slippery slope of an EA. Some just want the thrill of having an affair or the chase, etc, etc,.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I see a big difference between love and marriage. Love naturally fluctuates and can be increased with work or decreased with neglect. 

Marriage is a commitment. You're in or you're out.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I've been on this forum for only a short while and mostly I see advice like going NC and moving on. The intent is NOT to force the DS to love you but to work on yourself so that you can move forward with or WITHOUT your DS.

You can only control yourself and what YOU do. If that results in a chance to reconcile, all the better. But if it doesn't that's OK too.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Unfortunaley my wife is a serial cheater. So although she played all the right things in the beginning. I am realizing that she never really loved me to begin with, not in the 'normal' love way. She lives for the moment, and I didn't see that (fog). I hate that I loved her now.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Never take a cheater back if your life was perfect before the affair. And this is coming from a former cheater. You're not going to get your good, perfect life back.

But some people have bigger hearts than others and have made it work.

Great marriage prior to affair

Good marriage after affair. You can always look back and see what it was like and it just can't get back to where it was 100% because the BS usually holds back a little bit just in case the former cheater does it again.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Neonwhizz said:


> My only question is, I understanding working on a relationship, I understand wanting someone back, I understand "the fog" i know all that, but aren't we all just trying to do something that is impossible, which is trying to make somebody else love us. That doesn't work, it can't. I have to accept that someone stopped loving me.


It depends on where a person is after D-Day. 

The closer to D-Day, the harder a BS holds onto the idea that the WS will "wake up" and see what he/she is about to lose. 

Some WS's really are "on the fence" or "torn between" two people. In those cases, I believe what the BS does during those days and weeks after D-Day is critically important. 

Neon, it's a very difficult thing to let go of love. It's part of the grieving process and we all get there our own way. I'm in a state of ambivalence right now, where I really do experience a cold hate for what my wife has done. It's a deep, profound hate yet I still love her as well. (PS - I'm 5 months out from D-Day, too.)

You sound very calm and collected. That's good - you should be able to move on easier than others. I have two kids and live in an area where I have no support structure (no family, no friends, etc.). I had a lot more to lose than just the love of my wife. It's hard to move on sometimes. Marriage with kids was supposed to be for life.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You raise some interesting points.

But what about people who have been able to reconcile with the wayward partner?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

NO....I am not forcing him to love me. I gave him his chance to leave. He chose to stay. Now he gets to prove that he is worthy of me.

But I can see how many BSs feel that they are a second choice.


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## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

Neonwhizz said:


> I know you can't force someone to love you.
> 
> These forums are complete, correct and accurate, but the elephant in the room is that the other person, never did, stopped and never will love you again. So many people on these forums are fighting a loosing battle.


I don't agree with the second part. Everyone has a different understanding of what love is. Your ex girlfriends idea of love wasn't the same as yours. 

People choose to fall in love and fall out of love. If the emotional bond is still there, its easy to fall in love with someone all over again.


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## Bee2012 (Dec 8, 2012)

I agree that it's impossible to force a feeling like love. I still struggle with feeling like I am second best. There should never have been a choice to begin with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> NO....I am not forcing him to love me. I gave him his chance to leave. He chose to stay. Now he gets to prove that he is worthy of me.
> 
> But I can see how many BSs feel that they are a second choice.


I took her back I can't remember how many times. she's no good, just like her mother told me the only 2 times I talked to her about my situation. "leave her, she's no good" was what I got both times....


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

This is a good question. Which is exactly why I suggest a fierce open door policy. 

If they can't accept ultimatum demands thats the perfect way of knowing just how much they value the relationship. 

So many waywards balk and outright deny even simple things like cellphone and email access and those are the one who are unremorseful sacks of sh!t that need to be shown the door.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

IMHO, if you attempt to reconcile, your working assumption must be that the WS (or wayward BF/GF) still loves you. The WS may not realize it at the time but it's there. Human emotions are simple, but how we process the feelings is very complicated. It seems like sometimes a spouse strays because he/she is deeply hurt by their partner and have a void that needs to be filled. Others do simply fall out of love and there isn't anything that can be done. But to a certain extent, neither spouse will know for sure unless they attempt to reconcile. I'm not advocating that everyone try to reconcile - it's a personal choice - but that the human heart is very complicated and can often lead people to make terrible decisions that will be regretted for life.


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## MysticMouse (Dec 17, 2012)

No.

We're forcing them to be honest and make a choice.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Anyone want to look at the dates? it is from 2011


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Anyone want to look at the dates? it is from 2011


Its true but I think THIS is a good topic. I can see how someone, alot of people would see it this way. Cant you?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)




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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Neonwhizz said:


> My story is simillar to many on this forum, so I won't write a long history of what happened. I found out 6 months ago that my partner (female) of 5 years had been cheating on me for the last 9 months, EA and PA, like others i felt like i had been hit by a train. We had in her words the kind of relationship that most other people never even get to experience, well so much for that. All the perfect memories, best times, holidays, evenings spent together, late night talks, holding hands every night when falling asleep, it all meant nothing. I didn't move away, was always there for her, our sex life was ongoing, varied and exciting, still it wasn't enough, she was working at home for a year then found a job and within a week started an affair with someone. So there you have it.
> 
> She is still at my flat, for another 5 months after DDay she prented to break off contact with him, i found out, we talked, she said that she was going to move in with him, they were looking for a place, reality hit, usual thing the relationship if you can call it that broke down, the guy wanted all the fun and none of the responsibility, she felt that he was not devoting enough time to her, no surprise there, when life gets in the way the affair becomes too much like a real relationship. Anyway now she is looking for her own place.
> 
> ...


In your case you were with someone for five years but you did not marry her. I'm guessing she did not believe you were that committed to her. 
Why weren't you married? This left her in a more vulnerable pace to be scammed by another man. She obviously thought he loved her more than you did. Then she found out he only wanted her for her body.

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer to see what happened to your relationship. (Its not a sex manual) It ain't rocket science.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I didn’t force her to love me again. I instead reminded her of what love is and looks like. 

Then I ripped through her using her own actions, her OM actions, and my actions. I made her question what loving acts look like and whether or not her actions looked even remotely like that. I made her question herself and even if she was deserving of any love. I made her question who she was and where she wanted to go. Then I asked her to look and see if her own actions supported what she claims she wants. If she wants to be loved, she needs to be someone lovable; That is not who she decided to be.

So, I don’t love her that way anymore... She knows this and is working on being someone who I can love again.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

chapparal said:


> In your case you were with someone for five years but you did not marry her. I'm guessing she did not believe you were that committed to her.
> Why weren't you married? This left her in a more vulnerable pace to be scammed by another man. She obviously thought he loved her more than you did. Then she found out he only wanted her for her body.
> 
> Read Married Man Sex Life Primer to see what happened to your relationship. (Its not a sex manual) It ain't rocket science.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

I married mine and she still cheated. i told her how much I loved her all the time. I was passionate towards her, etc. However, if you are with someone who needs constant validation they are going to stray anyway. They NEED the constant attention of other men/women to feel good about themselves. 

I have come to learn this the hard way.


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