# Wife suffering from PPD/depression for 2 years, I'm losing patience



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Ok. So I'll try to keep this short and to the point. First about us, married 3 years blended family, my 2nd marriage hers too, and we have children together, 3 and the other 6 months old. 

Shortly after we got together, she has been suffering from what she calls a different form of "PTSD" then while she was pregnant she said she was suffering From "anti-partum" dperession. Not soon after our 2nd child together she told me now that she is suffering from PPD. She has seen a dr. and has been prescribed an antidepressent. She constantly tells me she needs to work on her and find her "happy place" again, which is great, and i have yet to see, since we have been married. However, in the mean time, or at least the last 2 years I have been dealing with the EXTREME ups and downs. Which I'll admit has worn me thin to the point of no patience. 

I am at a loss. 2 years of depression and I feel it just keeps coming. I'm not saying we have not had our "good" days but unfortunately the depressed and moody days out way the good. And for a husband it has worn me out. 

Any husband's out there or wives have any advice for a worn out, impatient, lost H?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Was she depressed before you married? From just your explination and my gut feeling, she will always be "depressed." Does she take her meds as prescribed? If theyre not working why hasnt she gone back to the dr? 

Sent from my LGUK410 using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Maybe she needs to try a different medication. Is she a SAHM? Being alone with small children all day can wear on a person, even if it is your choice to stay home and you love your children. Do you have family who can help out and give her moral support besides just you?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you gone with her to talk to her doctor? If not you need to start going so that you can tell her doctor what is going on. This is important since you have a child with her. You want to protect your children.

Is she in counseling. 

Does she do things like walk or other exercise?

How much time a week do the two of you spend together doing things that you both enjoy?


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Not a SAHM l. She has a very demanding high paying job. Started back at work 4 months post partum. I don't really share this with my family. I just kinda keep our problems to ourselves to avoid being the family talk. She has seen both a dr and therapist..but it just seems like it never helps. She puts alot of blame on me. .what I can't do. .mistakes i make... me not trying hard enough. .etc.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Could you give us some examples of what she says that you are not doing right and what needs to change?

And again.. how many hours a week do the two of you spend doing things together, just the two of you?


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Let me give you a recent example of things that I am not doing right. 

She recently told me that I don't support her and am not empathetic to her needs. She then proceeds to give me a long drawn out explanation. I know I am just suppose to be there for her and listen... but sometimes it is difficult to sit there and listen to your spouse say it is basically all you.

In our most recent conversation she said that she would be better off as a single SAHM because I can't be there for her unconditionally. And I times when I get worn out and thin skinned and react to what she says or does then I am accuses of "not giving her unconditional support"

We have our bright spots. We had a good NYE and day. However, when I asked her about that she said that is b/c she was 1. Drinking alchol (which we rarely do) 2. She set alot of things aside so we would have fun.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The first thing you need to do is get your OWN therapist and start going. Why? Because he/she will give you real-life steps to take to change the dynamics of your relationship. 

Your wife is one who will gladly blame others and other things for HER lack of drive and change. YOUR job is to stop letting her do that. She does it because you let her. 

The second thing you need to do is read a couple of books: first read No More Mr Nice Guy so you understand what a strong, confident man who healthily supports his family looks like. Then read His Needs Her Needs so you understand what a healthy marriage should look like, so you can strive for that.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You tried to build a plane while flying the plane.

In other words, bringing kids into a marriage and then creating kids immediately, before getting to know each other in the marital sense.

Your job as a husband is to make your wife glad that she married you. Are you doing this? What are her needs? Depression can be actual depression or it can be that she is not getting her emotional needs met within marriage. You should try to figure out what actions you can take to bring happiness and satisfaction into her life to see if that makes a difference.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Impatientguy said:


> Not a SAHM l. She has a very demanding high paying job. Started back at work 4 months post partum. I don't really share this with my family. I just kinda keep our problems to ourselves to avoid being the family talk. She has seen both a dr and therapist..but it just seems like it never helps. She puts alot of blame on me. .what I can't do. .mistakes i make... me not trying hard enough. .etc.


Maybe she is upset and resentful that she has to put your children (especially a 6 month old that should be bonding with her Mom not a stranger) in daycare because she has to support your family? I know I would be. I would expect my husband to support us so I could be home with our children. I'm sure she is also stressed and tired. You made it sound like was at home sleeping all day. She is clearly a productive person. Are you helping out with the childcare, cooking, cleaning and laundry? If not hire someone. It sounds like she is overwhelmed.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> The first thing you need to do is get your OWN therapist and start going. Why? Because he/she will give you real-life steps to take to change the dynamics of your relationship.
> 
> Your wife is one who will gladly blame others and other things for HER lack of drive and change. YOUR job is to stop letting her do that. She does it because you let her.
> 
> The second thing you need to do is read a couple of books: first read No More Mr Nice Guy so you understand what a strong, confident man who healthily supports his family looks like. Then read His Needs Her Needs so you understand what a healthy marriage should look like, so you can strive for that.


We have been going to therapy for almost a year and 2 therapists. We even went as far as attending a workshop too.

I have read His needs Her needs. ..great book btw...plus a slew of others. Currently im on Mort Fertels Marriage Fitness.

I've heard about no more mr. Nice guy. .. if we asked her I'm am far from nice to her. If she were here she would say, " i am not empathetic towards her and what she has/is going through"


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Hicks said:


> You tried to build a plane while flying the plane.
> 
> In other words, bringing kids into a marriage and then creating kids immediately, before getting to know each other in the marital sense.


I have heard her state this MANY times over. Meter if fact I can recite her words. "You don't know me, the REAL me that is. And I don't know you! "

and I agree with her. .. and my response is always, " I have only known a depressed spouse. Not the joyful person that your best freind, family, and others describe"

[/QUOTE]your job as a husband is to make your wife glad that she married you. Are you doing this? What are her needs? Depression can be actual depression or it can be that she is not getting her emotional needs met within marriage. You should try to figure out what actions you can take to bring happiness and satisfaction into her life to see if that makes a difference.[/QUOTE]

It is all the above probably. But who knows. Your guess is seriously as good as mine. I've heard her say many times that I do not meet her emotional needs. And ill be first to say that I am not a emotional guy (But who is). 

Honestly I don't know why she is even with me at times based on what she tells me I'm the world's biggest a**hole.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Happilymarried25 said:


> Maybe she is upset and resentful that she has to put your children (especially a 6 month old that should be bonding with her Mom not a stranger) in daycare because she has to support your family? I know I would be. I would expect my husband to support us so I could be home with our children. I'm sure she is also stressed and tired. You made it sound like was at home sleeping all day. She is clearly a productive person. Are you helping out with the childcare, cooking, cleaning and laundry? If not hire someone. It sounds like she is overwhelmed.


I know she was upset about the whole daycare thing. But then again it was a family freind and our 3 year old has been there for 2 years. Also I took leave from work so that the baby would not have to go to daycare right away.

When it comes to her career she loves it and is very dependable. I myself am successful to. We both do well financially. As far as chores, she will tell you I am a clean freak and we both do our share of cleaning. I am thinking of getting our house cleaner back since we are both working again. As far as the rest goes... the whole house knows I am the cook, although it can be stressful for me to come home late and still have everyone asking me what is for dinner. I'll admit she is the laundry person. Look we do our best even with help. It just seems it's always not enough. Like the bar is constantly being raised.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> Ok. So I'll try to keep this short and to the point. First about us, married 3 years blended family, my 2nd marriage hers too, and we have children together, 3 and the other 6 months old.
> 
> Shortly after we got together, she has been suffering from what she calls a different form of "PTSD" then while she was pregnant she said she was suffering From "anti-partum" dperession. Not soon after our 2nd child together she told me now that she is suffering from PPD. She has seen a dr. and has been prescribed an antidepressent. She constantly tells me she needs to work on her and find her "happy place" again, which is great, and i have yet to see, since we have been married. However, in the mean time, or at least the last 2 years I have been dealing with the EXTREME ups and downs. Which I'll admit has worn me thin to the point of no patience.
> 
> ...


My partner faced extreme depression while pregnant. Things were PERFECT the day of and after she announced it. Immediately afterwards, her mood deteriorated completely. She barely would speak and any touch or affection of any kind was off the table. Beyond the 1st trimester, things were just swinging wildly. Some days were okay, some days were awful. No matter how bad her actions and choices seemed, I treated her with understanding. There were tears on my part, at times, but she was suffering. It was hard going without any romance, at all, for such a long time. 

What I did to help was work incredibly hard on myself. To help her, I did at least 99% of all cooking and cleaning, and still do. I also let her not work. Now that we are in the PP period, things have gotten much better. Again, I work my tail off to give her rest and peace of mind. I'm ecstatic, as is she.

My first advice would be to re-evaluate the interaction and relationship roles. Are you being supportive or in the victim mindset? Do you give her love, despite tantrums/mood swings? What is her work load and the impact it has on her? Sleep amount? I went unrewarded (in the typical sense) for approximately 1 year. All I can say is that it paid off immensely.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Impatientguy said:


> Ok. So I'll try to keep this short and to the point. First about us, *married 3 years blended family*, my 2nd marriage hers too, *and we have children together, 3 and the other 6 months old*.
> 
> Shortly after we got together, she has been suffering from what she calls a different form of "PTSD" then while she was pregnant she said she was suffering From "anti-partum" dperession. Not soon after our 2nd child together she told me now that she is suffering from PPD. She has seen a dr. and has been prescribed an antidepressent. She constantly tells me she needs to work on her and find her "happy place" again, which is great, and i have yet to see, since we have been married. However, in the mean time, or at least the last 2 years I have been dealing with the EXTREME ups and downs. Which I'll admit has worn me thin to the point of no patience.
> 
> ...


Just for clarification, you mention being a blended family with 2 children. Are there children from your other marriages? 

You also mentioned reading His Needs/Her Needs. What did your wife identify as her top 5 emotional needs? What were yours?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's your first lesson on what to do when someone is screaming at you:

Leave The Room.

Say "We'll discuss this again when you can speak to me without raising your voice. I'll be back later."

AND THEN LEAVE for 20 minutes. Come back in the room and if she starts yelling again, turn right back around and leave. If she follows you, leave the house and go for a walk. If she yells again when you come back, grab your keys and go for a drive for a couple hours. If she does it again when you come back, pack an overnight bag and go stay somewhere else for the night. If she does it again when you come home, pack more clothes and stay gone for two days. Then three. Then a week. 

If, after a week gone, all she can do is yell at you, she needs mental help and you need to be away from her. Tell her you wish her well, but you won't stay and be her punching bag; you'll support her in getting help, you'll attend counseling together, but you will no longer just allow her to scream at you.

This coming from a professional counselor.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> Honestly I Fail at giving her love during her tantrums or as I refer it as "blow ups". These can be at times vile and aimed squarely at me. It is hard to hear some of the things she says, like I said it is all my fault, and she has even gone as far at to say she fails at being a W. That the only thing she is good at is her job and being a mom.
> 
> With a 6month old good sleep can be hard to come by.


Our boy is 8 weeks old, this day. We both get ample sleep. I make it a priority.

As it relates to the "blow ups", I could not sympathize more with you. I heard the worst things. How to react and receive the communication from her depressed state took tremendous research and effort on my part. It wasn't easy, but it became doable.

The main advice I can give is to tell you to look at her as if she is suffering and incapable of (sometimes) being not mean. Try as hard as you can to feel her feelings and perceive the world as she does. How romantic and loving do you feel after 2 days of no sleep? How romantic and loving do you feel after a surgery or when newly injured. Answering those questions will help to eliminate the feelings of victimization on your part. It isn't your fault and it isn't her fault. We are trained from birth to receive negativity in a really unhealthy way.

Don't tell her how she is behaving; she knows it. Don't indicate your pain with verbal or nonverbal gestures. It sounds counterintuitive, but they reinforce the mindset and only hurt you. Try your hardest to give love and understanding, even if the reward doesn't come. It is a gift from you, without conditions. You sound like you do a lot around the house, so I can only ask whether her work load affects her more than yours does. Even if you do more, does her work load tax her mind and body more?

In the face of a tantrum:

-Just ask questions. Ask her how she feels and why she feels that way. Follow up with more questions.

-Don't give negativity.

-Don't try to engage with proving points. When upset/stressed, the logic mind is crowded out (provably so). In this mental state, she is NOT herself. So don't attempt to reason with the elevated emotional her.

-Let her be upset. 

-When the difficult moment ends, let it end and enjoy the moment.

Throw your pride in the trash, it can only keep you from being happy. With this mindset and plenty of effort, you can release her from her emotional prison.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I have a family member that suffers this.

And she does suffer it. However, it's never 'really' gone away, and likely never will. A combination of factors are likely the reason for this -- poor diet and exercise, not being diligent with her meds, and a stressful marriage (husband has been laid off a few times, but has always managed to find a new/better job within weeks).

Her husband is CONTINUALLY empathetic and supportive; she says he's not and will never 'get' her.

Here's the root of why he'll never 'get' her, and why it will never go away: because she has weaponized her condition.

She chooses to be a victim. Once she latched onto her PPD, she realized that she got a LOT of attention and space for treating everyone terribly... And didn't have to do much. No job, doesn't cook or clean much, doesn't parent much. Instant cop-out.

Because she chooses this path, she will never leave the path. And no-one that is close to her (except me) will ever point this out to her, because they're afraid of the response. 

And such is life.

It sounds like she blames you for her PPD, and it sounds like she's getting something out of it. 

But maybe that's just me and my experience talking.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> The first thing you need to do is get your OWN therapist and start going. Why? Because he/she will give you real-life steps to take to change the dynamics of your relationship.
> 
> Your wife is one who will gladly blame others and other things for HER lack of drive and change. YOUR job is to stop letting her do that. She does it because you let her.
> 
> The second thing you need to do is read a couple of books: first read *No More Mr Nice Guy* so you understand what a strong, confident man who healthily supports his family looks like. Then read *His Needs Her Needs* so you understand what a healthy marriage should look like, so you can strive for that.


Add to those books "Love Busters"


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> We have been going to therapy for almost a year and 2 therapists. We even went as far as attending a workshop too.
> 
> I have read His needs Her needs. ..great book btw...plus a slew of others. Currently im on Mort Fertels Marriage Fitness.
> 
> I've heard about no more mr. Nice guy. .. if we asked her I'm am far from nice to her. If she were here she would say, " i am not empathetic towards her and what she has/is going through"


No More Mr Nice Guy is not about men who are 'nice'. TAke a look at the book, you will see what it's about.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> I know she was upset about the whole daycare thing. But then again it was a family freind and our 3 year old has been there for 2 years. Also I took leave from work so that the baby would not have to go to daycare right away.
> 
> When it comes to her career she loves it and is very dependable. I myself am successful to. We both do well financially. As far as chores, she will tell you I am a clean freak and we both do our share of cleaning. I am thinking of getting our house cleaner back since we are both working again. As far as the rest goes... the whole house knows I am the cook, *although it can be stressful for me to come home late and still have everyone asking me what is for dinner.* I'll admit she is the laundry person. Look we do our best even with help. It just seems it's always not enough. Like the bar is constantly being raised.


Have you looked into using a crock pot for meals on the days that you are working? Come home to a hot, cooked meal. Then after you have rested and had dinner, you can prepare for the next day's crock pot mean. Then put it on low in the morning before you leave for work.


.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> Let me give you a recent example of things that I am not doing right.
> 
> She recently told me that I don't support her and am not empathetic to her needs.* She then proceeds to give me a long drawn out explanation. *I know I am just suppose to be there for her and listen... but sometimes it is difficult to sit there and listen to your spouse say it is basically all you.
> 
> ...


Those examples are not detailed enough. They are not a broad over view.

What does she tell you that you are, or are not doing. What is that long drawn out explanation? 

Also, I have already asked you twice and get no answer on this. How many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy. I'm talking about date-like stuff. But it does not have to be things like a date out to dinner, a walk where you both hold hands a talk would be one.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're the cook, why do you not prepare ahead of time for days when you will be home late? That's not fair to the others in the home, who are basically held hostage. Crock pots are good, as are ordering food delivery or even hiring someone to cook on those days - since you two are so financially successful.

My H used to expect us to wait dinner until he came home, but he might come home at 5 some days and 10 on other days. That was a horrible thing for me to do to our child - teach her to have to wait on him like that. My IC actually told us to set a time at which dinner falls and keep it, for the good of the kids.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Do you give her love, despite tantrums/mood swings? What is her work load and the impact it has on her? Sleep amount? I went unrewarded (in the typical sense) for approximately 1 year. All I can say is that it paid off immensely.
> 
> Relationship Teacher


I can honestly say I fail at this. I do not give her love during her tantrums or as I call it her "Blow-ups". These can be vile at times and aimed squarely at me. It is hard to sit there and be the target of her melt downs. She has even admitted to me that she is not a good W and stated that she is only good at her career and being a mom. 

We both try to get sleep when we can w/ a 6month old it can be challenging at times.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Lila said:


> Just for clarification, you mention being a blended family with 2 children. Are there children from your other marriages??


Yes both have 1 

You also mentioned reading His Needs/Her Needs. What did your wife identify as her top 5 emotional needs? What were yours?[/QUOTE]

My wife did not read this book with me, I read it many years ago alone after my first divorce


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Do you give her love, despite tantrums/mood swings? What is her work load and the impact it has on her? Sleep amount? I went unrewarded (in the typical sense) for approximately 1 year. All I can say is that it paid off immensely.
> 
> Relationship Teacher


Honestly I Fail at giving her love during her tantrums or as I refer it as "blow ups". These can be at times vile and aimed squarely at me. It is hard to hear some of the things she says, like I said it is all my fault, and she has even gone as far at to say she fails at being a W. That the only thing she is good at is her job and being a mom. 

With a 6month old good sleep can be hard to come by.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> I can only ask whether her work load affects her more than yours does. Even if you do more, does her work load tax her mind and body more?


Yes her workload is very stressful, so I try to recognize that and I do as much as I can at home, although there are times that things fall by the way side.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> In the face of a tantrum:
> 
> -Just ask questions. Ask her how she feels and why she feels that way. Follow up with more questions.
> 
> ...


Thank you, and I have read about these tantrums and all that you state is true. I get it, I really do, the problem is putting into practice, and essentially being someone's punching bag for 2 years. I am just so worn out. I cant physically take it let alone mentally. It is soo hard.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> If, after a week gone, all she can do is yell at you, she needs mental help and you need to be away from her. Tell her you wish her well, but you won't stay and be her punching bag; you'll support her in getting help, you'll attend counseling together, but you will no longer just allow her to scream at you.
> 
> This coming from a professional counselor.


We have discussed this before, and I know her well enough to know that she would accept her fate as a failed W and think that she deserves to be divorced from me.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> I have a family member that suffers this.
> 
> And she does suffer it. However, it's never 'really' gone away, and likely never will. A combination of factors are likely the reason for this -- poor diet and exercise, not being diligent with her meds, and a stressful marriage (husband has been laid off a few times, but has always managed to find a new/better job within weeks).
> 
> ...


add this to the list, "you will never understand what I am going through"


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Impatientguy said:


> Yes both have 1
> 
> You also mentioned reading His Needs/Her Needs. What did your wife identify as her top 5 emotional needs? What were yours?
> 
> My wife did not read this book with me, I read it many years ago alone after my first divorce


Okay, so you have 4 children total (2 together + 1 yours from marriage #1 + 1 hers from marriage #1), correct? If so, how old are the older children? Do they live with you? Does your wife have a good relationship with her ex-husband (father of her 1st child)? Do you and she have a good overall relationship with each other's step kids?

As to the book, have you ever asked her to read it?.....with you even?


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> Thank you, and I have read about these tantrums and all that you state is true. I get it, I really do, the problem is putting into practice, and essentially being someone's punching bag for 2 years. I am just so worn out. I cant physically take it let alone mentally. It is soo hard.


Tell yourself that you are not a victim. When you begin to invest faith in that mindset, the negativity that is given to you will no longer pierce your skin at all/as much. Take the stance of a warrior. Words can only hinder your goal of happiness. Fight for happiness.

The very first step is for you to invest energy in feeling what she does and seeing the world through her eyes. Don't wear her shoes. Wear her shoes with her feet. She is suffering and your help is needed.

When she is negative, cut see the words coming at you in black and white. Remove all of the emotion and respond to the facts. If difficult, again, just ask questions. You can keep your answers to yes or no. Let her talk. You will be surprised how much differently the difficult moment ends when you no longer give negativity or show how hurt you are. Your understanding of her suffering will help you handle your own emotional pain. 

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Those examples are not detailed enough. They are not a broad over view.
> 
> What does she tell you that you are, or are not doing. What is that long drawn out explanation?.


I am not empathetic to her when she is in pain (physically and mentally) or when she is, hurt, crying, or yelling etc. I do no look at her with love. 

There is so many things I can go on and on and on, basically, we fight over the small stuff constantly, everything is a major problem. For example it can be something like, not telling her about some plans I made with my mom, and not checking with her first, that is disrespecting her and not thinking of my W first.



> Also, I have already asked you twice and get no answer on this. How many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you, doing things that you both enjoy. I'm talking about date-like stuff. But it does not have to be things like a date out to dinner, a walk where you both hold hands a talk would be one.


Sorry, we really try weekly to spend time together on date nights although it does not seem like it is enough. Ill admit though when we do go out we more times than not have fun.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

thank you all for the responses. 

Lila - we have great relations with both our X's and we have 50% custody for the children, we have a D16 (hers) and S7(mine).

We have discussed the crockpot idea, just have to put it into motion. Although we try to eat pretty healthy and as far as the kids go they are usually not with us half the weekday and every other weekend. 

I don't know if I mentioned that she also has stated more than once that she feels fat and not herself since having the kids. She feels horrible in her own skin and wants to get back into the shape she was before she had the 2 most recent kids. She wants to loose like 30lbs. I know this is part of her problem she struggles with. 

Relationship teacher - this is great info, it is just very hard to implement and ignore her harsh words, especially the "I don't love yous", "You not the man I thought you were" and other terrible things that make me feel belittled and small. I am a pretty tough guy and when people treat me poorly I really don't care, b/c I just cut them out of my life. With my W it is not that way.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> We have discussed this before, and I know her well enough to know that she would accept her fate as a failed W and think that she deserves to be divorced from me.


So you are basically being held hostage to her pride?

That gives her all the power in your marriage. 

You have to be willing to LOSE your marriage to be able to save it. Meaning, if you are staying and accepting at all costs, NOTHING will get resolved.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> add this to the list, "you will never understand what I am going through"


And, hopefully, you will never understand depression.

However, as I said -- is it "you will never understand" as a source of power and control for her, or is it feeling alone and misunderstood?

Or both?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> I am not empathetic to her when she is in pain (physically and mentally) or when she is, hurt, crying, or yelling etc. I do no look at her with love.


What do you do when she is in physical pain? And you describe what you do for her a couple of the times that she was in physical pain?


Impatientguy said:


> There is so many things I can go on and on and on, basically, we fight over the small stuff constantly, everything is a major problem. For example it can be something like, not telling her about some plans I made with my mom, and not checking with her first, that is disrespecting her and not thinking of my W first.


Ok, so here one tangible thing that you brought up… you make plans with others without checking with your wife first. Are these plans that you expect your wife to be involved in.. like she’s supposed to go out with your mom too? Or is it just you doing these things with your wife.

Your wife is right. Both of you should be checking in with each other to make sure that any plans you make do not conflict with something your spouse has in mind.

This is an ‘emotional need’ that your wife has. Why do you have a problem with it?

This is why knowing the details of what she is asking you is important. Because if she is asking you to do something reasonable and you are not willing to do it, there is a problem on your part.



Impatientguy said:


> Sorry, we really try weekly to spend time together on date nights although it does not seem like it is enough. Ill admit though when we do go out we more times than not have fun.


You say that you read “His Needs, Her Needs”. Do you recall that in the book it says that a couple has to spend at least 15 hours a week together, doing things where they are engaged with each other? The reason for this is to maintain your bond and the in-love feelings. You two are not making your relationship a priority and its showing.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> Relationship teacher - this is great info, it is just very hard to implement and ignore her harsh words, especially the "I don't love yous", "You not the man I thought you were" and other terrible things that make me feel belittled and small. I am a pretty tough guy and when people treat me poorly I really don't care, b/c I just cut them out of my life. With my W it is not that way.


The process to change your reception of negativity is basically emotional retraining. I used to be the most sensitive person imaginable, and now I am a brick wall to negativity. I spend my emotional energy giving love, instead of what I did in the past.

Pain is temporary. There are very feasible methods to this no longer being how you receive negativity. Knowing and believing that can give you enough hope. It is all in my book that I am in the editing phase of now. Since I can't provide that, I can tell you that Don Miguel Ruiz's work was very beneficial.

I feel so strongly about this because I've been exactly where you are. You do care about getting to a better place and you still give a lot in your marriage. Those are really good signs. She doesn't even have to participate in self-help and development. In time, even with only your effort, her behavior will alter considerably.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> And, hopefully, you will never understand depression.
> 
> However, as I said -- is it "you will never understand" as a source of power and control for her, or is it feeling alone and misunderstood?
> 
> Or both?


sad to say both


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> sad to say both


Then it will never end, and I'm sorry.

She will always feel alone and misunderstood no matter what you do.

Unless what you do is take away the positives that come of this for her. She has to _want_ to get better.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> What do you do when she is in physical pain? And you describe what you do for her a couple of the times that she was in physical pain?


I ask her a lot of questions: "what can I do for you" "is there anything you need" "want a hug"



> Ok, so here one tangible thing that you brought up… you make plans with others without checking with your wife first. Are these plans that you expect your wife to be involved in.. like she’s supposed to go out with your mom too? Or is it just you doing these things with your wife.


we are not talking about dinner plans it can be simple like, me helping her rake leaves at her house for a hour. So yes it doesn't involve her, but she wants to be in the know. Which I get, but it is like I have to check with her first. Like I have to ask permission to go over and help my mom rake the leaves and schedule it according to her schedule.



> Your wife is right. Both of you should be checking in with each other to make sure that any plans you make do not conflict with something your spouse has in mind.


Even if it did conflict, to me it is simple make a phone call and say "oops I forgot I had plans with ____" But to her it is not that simple





> You say that you read “His Needs, Her Needs”. Do you recall that in the book it says that a couple has to spend at least 15 hours a week together, doing things where they are engaged with each other? The reason for this is to maintain your bond and the in-love feelings. You two are not making your relationship a priority and its showing.


I do recall this, I don't know that we meet the 15 hours. I totally agree we don't make the relationship a priority, but it is very hard when we are on constant turmoil, 

I understand that meeting her emotional needs is important I do, it is the reaction I get from her when I don't, it is a total melt down or a mini melt down. There is no love and understanding from her at all.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> Then it will never end, and I'm sorry.
> 
> She will always feel alone and misunderstood no matter what you do.
> 
> Unless what you do is take away the positives that come of this for her. She has to _want_ to get better.


The thing is that she is making steps to get better; medication, reading, trying to exercise, reading.

The problem she constantly tells me is ME. According to her I do not help her, support her, cheerlead for her, she feels that she knows she is in a bad spot and like relationship teacher stated, I must accept her as foul as she is for now, and love her unconditionally.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

honestly even as I type what is going on with my W, it makes me stressed out. Thinking about what she has said to me makes me feel abused. It is an bad feeling.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> The thing is that she is making steps to get better; medication, reading, trying to exercise, reading.
> 
> The problem she constantly tells me is ME. According to her I do not help her, support her, cheerlead for her, she feels that she knows she is in a bad spot and like relationship teacher stated, I must accept her as foul as she is for now, and love her unconditionally.


Is she right?

Do you still love her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> I ask her a lot of questions: "what can I do for you" "is there anything you need" "want a hug".





Impatientguy said:


> we are not talking about dinner plans it can be simple like, me helping her rake leaves at her house for a hour. So yes it doesn't involve her, but she wants to be in the know. Which I get, but it is like I have to check with her first. Like I have to ask permission to go over and help my mom rake the leaves and schedule it according to her schedule.
> 
> Even if it did conflict, to me it is simple make a phone call and say "oops I forgot I had plans with ____" But to her it is not that simple


I think that both you and your wife have issues. You are the one who is here so you are the one whose issues I’m addressing and give suggestions to. Just don’t want you to think that I am thinking you are THE bad guy and picking on you. That said…

You feeling like it’s asking your wife permission is your problem. You are not asking permission. You are coordinating. Get that in your mind. When two people marry and have a family, they have to cooperate and coordinate their lives. So you coordinate with her.

If on the other hand she says, that’s not a good day because the kids have a game we need to go to (or something like that) you can just reschedule.

See… coordination. 

Now if every time you tell her that you are going to do something for your mom, and you only do something for once a month, and your wife says no we have plans or I need you to do xyz… there is a problem that has to be worked out.



Impatientguy said:


> I do recall this, I don't know that we meet the 15 hours. I totally agree we don't make the relationship a priority, but it is very hard when we are on constant turmoil,


This is probably why she feels the way she does. She is losing her emotional connection to you. When this happens it is both physically and emotionally painful. The lack of dopamine and oxytocin do this to the body. And she’s fighting to get those levels back up. When His Needs, Her Needs is talking about the love bank, it’s talking about the level of those and other feel good chemicals that the brain uses.

Find time very day to spend just with her. One to two hours every night after the children are in bed. (this can also include love making time by the way).

Then the rest of the time for dates on the weekends. This time has to be both of your priority.


Impatientguy said:


> I understand that meeting her emotional needs is important I do, it is the reaction I get from her when I don't, it is a total melt down or a mini melt down. There is no love and understanding from her at all.


Her meltdowns do sound like a problem. I’m not glossing over them. She needs to learn to express her needs and feelings in a non-attacking manner.

Didn’t you way that the two of you are in counseling? Are you in marriage counseling? Teaching her a better way to express her needs and frustrations should be one of the main focuses. 

You need to read “Love Busters”. Her yelling and having meltdowns is a love buster and has to stop.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> I do recall this, I don't know that we meet the 15 hours. I totally agree we don't make the relationship a priority, but it is very hard when we are on constant turmoil,


Ah, but here's the rub: The more time you spend together, the more bonding chemicals you feel for each other, and the less likely you are to be in turmoil.

See how that works? YOU are the one here looking for advice, so it will have to be YOU taking it on the chin at first and take her out and DO things with her, even if she's being bristly.

As for you raking your mom's leaves, I'm willing to bet it's not about whether she wanted you to do something else. It's about YOU deciding what you'd be doing without it being a joint discussion. As in, YOUR opinion of what you should do with your time is more important than HER opinion. In other words, she wants to be a full partner. My H makes decisions all.the.time without ever even speaking out loud about it, and those decisions often DO affect me, whether I'm involved in what he's doing or not. Like I needed to go somewhere to return a Christmas gift Saturday, but he didn't tell me his band was coming over. Suddenly they show up, they've parked in our driveway, and YOU try getting a bunch of band guys to move all their cars so I can get my own car out. Simple communication AHEAD of time would have solved that. Time that would given her an opportunity to bring up any potential obstacles or an opportunity to review HER plans.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> The thing is that she is making steps to get better; medication, reading, trying to exercise, reading.
> 
> The problem she constantly tells me is ME. According to her I do not help her, support her, cheerlead for her, she feels that she knows she is in a bad spot and like relationship teacher stated, I must accept her as foul as she is for now, and love her unconditionally.


When she says that, YOUR next response should be 'so let's work out a solution that works for BOTH of us' and then don't let it go until you get one.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

What bothers me with this situation is three things:

#1 she's doing the right things (apparently) but it's not getting better.

#2 she blames you -- solely -- for the reason she's not getting better.

#3 if I had depression and was working on making it better I'd feel like a chump for putting my lady through it and would want to make it up to her, not blame her for it.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you ever had depression, marduk? By its very nature, you lose perspective.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

marduk said:


> What bothers me with this situation is three things:
> 
> #3 if I had depression and was working on making it better I'd feel like a chump for putting my lady through it and would want to make it up to her, not blame her for it.


Depression alters her reality.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> I ask her a lot of questions: "what can I do for you" "is there anything you need" "want a hug".





Impatientguy said:


> we are not talking about dinner plans it can be simple like, me helping her rake leaves at her house for a hour. So yes it doesn't involve her, but she wants to be in the know. Which I get, but it is like I have to check with her first. Like I have to ask permission to go over and help my mom rake the leaves and schedule it according to her schedule.
> 
> Even if it did conflict, to me it is simple make a phone call and say "oops I forgot I had plans with ____" But to her it is not that simple


I think that both you and your wife have issues. You are the one who is here so you are the one whose issues I’m addressing and give suggestions to. Just don’t want you to think that I am thinking you are THE bad guy and picking on you. That said…

You feeling like it’s asking your wife permission is your problem. You are not asking permission. You are coordinating. Get that in your mind. When two people marry and have a family, they have to cooperate and coordinate their lives. So you coordinate with her.

If on the other hand she says, that’s not a good day because the kids have a game we need to go to (or something like that) you can just reschedule.

See… coordination. 

Now if every time you tell her that you are going to do something for your mom, and you only do something for once a month, and your wife says no we have plans or I need you to do xyz… there is a problem that has to be worked out.



Impatientguy said:


> I do recall this, I don't know that we meet the 15 hours. I totally agree we don't make the relationship a priority, but it is very hard when we are on constant turmoil,


This is probably why she feels the way she does. She is losing her emotional connection to you. When this happens it is both physically and emotionally painful. The lack of dopamine and oxytocin do this to the body. And she’s fighting to get those levels back up. When His Needs, Her Needs is talking about the love bank, it’s talking about the level of those and other feel good chemicals that the brain uses.

Find time very day to spend just with her. One to two hours every night after the children are in bed. (this can also include love making time by the way).

Then the rest of the time for dates on the weekends. This time has to be both of your priority.


Impatientguy said:


> I understand that meeting her emotional needs is important I do, it is the reaction I get from her when I don't, it is a total melt down or a mini melt down. There is no love and understanding from her at all.


Her meltdowns do sound like a problem. I’m not glossing over them. She needs to learn to express her needs and feelings in a non-attacking manner.

Didn’t you way that the two of you are in counseling? Are you in marriage counseling? Teaching her a better way to express her needs and frustrations should be one of the main focuses. 

You need to read “Love Busters”. Her yelling and having meltdowns is a love buster and has to stop. 

Then I read a book "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships" by Harriet Lerner 

One thing I learned in the book is that when a person is like your wife, or my ex, they work themselves up into a frenzy. They don’t realize that the reason they are doing it is to activate endorphins to make themselves feel better. But then they have laid waste to everyone around them. The books talks about a technique to stop this cycle.

Come up with a safe word. I sue “STOP” with my hand up like in the stop sign. When we were having a talk and I could tell that it was going to explode, I’d use the “STOP” word/sign. And then say I was going away for a while so that both of us could cool off. Sometimes I’d have to day “STOP” two or three times before he would stop.

I did two things before I started using this method. 

One is that I practiced it in front of a mirror, imagining him exploding and then would do the “STOP” thing. I did this over and over until it was automatic.

The other is that I sat him down and told him that his angry outbursts were causing a lot of problems. That I did not feel safe, I felt abused and he would say the most awful things that he could never take back. So we had to stop doing this. I told him about the “STOP” thing. Told him that I would walk away and then it was up to both of us to cool down and think through what we really wanted to say. Then only once we could talk about the issues calmly would we talk again.

It took a couple of months but he caught on. He got to the point that as soon as I said “STOP”, he would get his helmet and go for a long bike ride. An hour later he’d come home calm and we could talk. It completely ended what had been years of ugly, even frightening outbursts on his part.

Relationships are like a dance. People get into a dance and the steps don't change.... that is until one of the partners changes his/her steps. Once that happened the other has to either change their steps in unison or leave the dance.

You two are waltzing, and you change to doing the jitterbug, there is no way that your dance partner can continue to waltz with you.

(Sadly, I also found out that he had been cheating on me the entire 15 years we had been together. So I divorce him.)


----------



## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> What bothers me with this situation is three things:
> 
> #1 she's doing the right things (apparently) but it's not getting better.
> 
> ...


People who are truly, clinically depressed don't usually even realize it - or at least they don't realize the extent of it. There is a total loss of perspective. 

Not making excuses for the OP's wife here, because I truly question whether she actually has clinical depression, or whether she's hanging onto that as an excuse.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Depression alters her reality.


I can see that, but isn't it a _convenient_ alteration?

Isn't the solution to delusion a dose of reality?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I am still pretty confused about what the problems are, I feels like I am missing something... 
But is she taking her meds daily? Does she have frequent check-ups with her Dr to make sure they are working properly?

From what I can figure there are 2 problems. 1 is her depression and 2 is that she feels her emotional needs aren't being met. 

I have depression. I also have emotional needs. It's separate things. You say you find it hard to meet her emotional needs because you aren't an emotional guy but do you know what her EN are?


----------



## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

OP, I don't agree with the poster(s) who said you should just sit there and "give her love" while she is berating you during these sessions. No one deserves that. Plus it won't get you anywhere, and I don't believe that it's truly what she's looking for. You aren't perfect, but neither is she. There are issues on both sides.

I don't know if you have answered these questions yet, and I apologize if I missed them. But, did your wife self-diagnose her perinatal depression and then her postpartum depression? Most importantly, is she taking medication for it? If she is, why isn't she pursuing a change in drug or dose since it clearly isn't working? She has a responsibility for that, because it seems that she is self-aware enough to know she is 'depressed'.

I have personal experience with both perinatal depression and postpartum depression, with my third child and most notably with my fourth (who died at birth). I am a healthcare professional so I (supposedly) know a lot about depression, but I never truly understood the way it completely leaves you without perspective until I experienced it myself. Even though I know how to diagnose depression, I was completely incapable of recognizing it in myself. This makes me wonder if she is truly experiencing clinical depression, or just is hanging onto that as a reason for her negative feelings. 

It sounds to me like the issue is more her dissatisfaction with herself, but she is projecting it onto you. You can't allow that. It will kill your relationship and your soul.


----------



## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> I can see that, but isn't it a _convenient_ alteration?


I think that in this case it is.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

marduk said:


> I can see that, but isn't it a _convenient_ alteration?
> 
> Isn't the solution to delusion a dose of reality?


I approach it in a manner that strips them of their negative power. Reality is welcome, but how do we bring them to the table when their reality is the reality? Can you reason with a possessed individual (see: the Exorcist)? That person is not present, so I propose to not act in a manner that assumes they are. I find acceptance to be the cure, oftentimes.

Thoughts?

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Relationship Teacher said:


> I approach it in a manner that strips them of their negative power. Reality is welcome, but how do we bring them to the table when their reality is the reality? Can you reason with a possessed individual (see: the Exorcist)? That person is not present, so I propose to not act in a manner that assumes they are. I find acceptance to be the cure, oftentimes.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Relationship Teacher


I think we're kinda saying the same thing. Take away what she gets out of being this way, while helping her get better.

While staying in reality (which from experience is really, really hard while being in constant contact with someone that doesn't want to live there).


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marduk said:


> I can see that, but isn't it a _convenient_ alteration?
> 
> Isn't the solution to delusion a dose of reality?


Yes, and that's why I suggested leaving the room and Ele suggested the Stop method - both of which I was given to use by my therapist, btw.

But just saying she's wrong, so there, doesn't really solve anything.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Impatientguy said:


> Ok. So I'll try to keep this short and to the point. First about us, married 3 years blended family, my 2nd marriage hers too, and we have children together, 3 and the other 6 months old.
> 
> Shortly after we got together, she has been suffering from what she calls a different form of "PTSD" then while she was pregnant she said she was suffering From "anti-partum" dperession. Not soon after our 2nd child together she told me now that she is suffering from PPD. She has seen a dr. and has been prescribed an antidepressent. She constantly tells me she needs to work on her and find her "happy place" again, which is great, and i have yet to see, since we have been married. However, in the mean time, or at least the last 2 years I have been dealing with the EXTREME ups and downs. Which I'll admit has worn me thin to the point of no patience.
> 
> ...


You need therapy yourself, now. You need a medical person to have your back. I would suggest you arrange this for you ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

turnera said:


> Yes, and that's why I suggested leaving the room and Ele suggested the Stop method - both of which I was given to use by my therapist, btw.
> 
> But just saying she's wrong, so there, doesn't really solve anything.


I wouldn't say she's wrong.

I'd tell her that being married to someone who is depressed is a pretty crappy place to be, and her getting better should be a priority for us both. 

Blaming the other spouse for it instead of taking accountability for it would make it intolerable for me, personally.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> Is she right?


Yes she is right sometimes



> Do you still love her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very much so


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> Yes she is right sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> Very much so


So then make a plan.

Come up with a list of all the ways that you've not been a good husband to her. Just get them all down.

Take a look at the list -- prioritize it. Based on the impact to her and the liklihood that you can make a difference quickly. This is important for momentum.

Work on the first 1-3 things for a few weeks. Once you have them down, move on.

Pay attention to her response.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

Hope Shimmers said:


> People who are truly, clinically depressed don't usually even realize it - or at least they don't realize the extent of it. There is a total loss of perspective.
> 
> Not making excuses for the OP's wife here, because I truly question whether she actually has clinical depression, or whether she's hanging onto that as an excuse.


Sadly I feel this way too, I wonder how much is depression and how much is attention seeking. I hope it is not the latter, I do know that she hangs on too a lot of baggage that happened to her before we met.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> So then make a plan.
> 
> Come up with a list of all the ways that you've not been a good husband to her. Just get them all down.
> 
> ...


I think based on what I have seen here and read, I need to regroup and make a good plan of attack. 

My problem is always I muster the energy to try something different then I get defeated and my patience and empathy tank are empty, and at times are constantly running on E.

I will make a plan and try to document my progress. IT is not easy. Heck I feel exhausted even today, just want to get some sleep and try to reenergize myself tomorrow. Maybe go for a 6 mile run to get the blood flowing. 

But as always I will try again


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> I think based on what I have seen here and read, I need to regroup and make a good plan of attack.
> 
> My problem is always I muster the energy to try something different then I get defeated and my patience and empathy tank are empty, and at times are constantly running on E.
> 
> ...


I hear you. You need to create an excess of energy in your life.

Diet. Excercise. Meditation.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Impatientguy said:


> Sadly I feel this way too, I wonder how much is depression and how much is attention seeking. I hope it is not the latter, I do know that she hangs on too a lot of baggage that happened to her before we met.


And that's where the boundaries and consequences are so important. You letting her know how much you love her, but you have to protect yourself, too. So, on the advice of your therapist - you ARE going to get a therapist, right? - you need to set up some things. And then go from there.

And if you find you always falter, let someone else into this as your mentor - a dad, brother, uncle, friend. Someone you can talk to about it so they can keep you on the path.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> Sadly I feel this way too, I wonder how much is depression and how much is attention seeking. I hope it is not the latter, I do know that she hangs on too a lot of baggage that happened to her before we met.


Her baggage trained her to react/act negatively. The attention-seeking is a byproduct.



> I think based on what I have seen here and read, I need to regroup and make a good plan of attack.
> 
> My problem is always I muster the energy to try something different then I get defeated and my patience and empathy tank are empty, and at times are constantly running on E.
> 
> ...


Individuals think that change is effortless or will be met with willingness on the part of the husband/wife. Change is VERY difficult, no matter how positive it is. Knowing ahead of time what to expect can significantly lower the anxiety and reaction to "failure". There may be no positive reception to your new positive behavior for some time. We have been trained to think that negative emotions mean something dangerous has been encountered. Unfortunately, positive change elicits that same warning sign, initially. 

Doing this is the simplest thing possible, you only have to gain/maintain the will to stick with it. When one partner permanently chooses to no longer bring a weapon to the battlefield, it is no longer a battlefield. The other partner, in time, realizes how silly it is standing there wearing a mean grimace and carrying a battle-axe. Relationships operate by matching energies. If you don't elevate to her energy, she will, inevitably, meet you on firm ground.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Impatientguy said:


> I think based on what I have seen here and read, I need to regroup and make a good plan of attack.
> 
> My problem is always I muster the energy to try something different then I get defeated and my patience and empathy tank are empty, and at times are constantly running on E.
> 
> ...


If I were you, I would read up on active listening. My husband does it with me when I get upset with him.

Basically you just do not take whatever she says personally, while at the same time trying to hear her message.

Ele always recommends getting the 15 hours a week in. That is so helpful, but can be pretty hard when kids are little. Do it anyway.

I can only imagine how stressed your wife must feel, working full time with a 3 yo and 6 mo.

You need to develop thick skin, OP. You need to not let her words touch you. 

That leaving the room technique is not likely to make her feel loved and supported by you, btw. I advise you to stay in the room and let her words roll off your back. Employ active listening, instead.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Her baggage trained her to react/act negatively. The attention-seeking is a byproduct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Attention seeking" may also merely be a tool used by a depressed person to call in some attention. That would be why it is called attention seeking.

It is a way of validating their existence and of ensuring that their spouse, children, etc. , still loves them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Impatientguy said:


> Look we do our best even with help. It just seems it's always not enough. *Like the bar is constantly being raised.*


Even without a person raising it on purpose, the bar gets raised by LIFE. With each child, the bar is raised. As the children grow older an have more needs (sports, interests, personalities of their own, acting out needing parental intervention, making and getting the to Dr.'s appointments, checking homework, teacher's conferences, etc.) the bar gets raised again and again. Both parents have to recognize the new responsibilities and help balance them out. So many things get overlooked, and the mother just picks up one more responsibility until she is overwhelmed. It sounds like that is where your wife is...and you too. Maybe she is emotionally weaker than you and you need to take even more responsibilities from her to lighten her load.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Even without a person raising it on purpose, the bar gets raised by LIFE. With each child, the bar is raised. As the children grow older an have more needs (sports, interests, personalities of their own, acting out needing parental intervention, making and getting the to Dr.'s appointments, checking homework, teacher's conferences, etc.) the bar gets raised again and again. Both parents have to recognize the new responsibilities and help balance them out. So many things get overlooked, and the mother just picks up one more responsibility until she is overwhelmed. It sounds like that is where your wife is...and you too. Maybe she is emotionally weaker than you and you need to take even more responsibilities from her to lighten her load.


Fabulous post, imfar.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> And that's where the boundaries and consequences are so important. You letting her know how much you love her, but you have to protect yourself, too. So, on the advice of your therapist - you ARE going to get a therapist, right? - you need to set up some things. And then go from there.
> 
> And if you find you always falter, let someone else into this as your mentor - a dad, brother, uncle, friend. Someone you can talk to about it so they can keep you on the path.


we have a therapist that has been working with us for a year and a half together and individually, no one really knows what we are going through other than the therapist


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> "Attention seeking" may also merely be a tool used by a depressed person to call in some attention. That would be why it is called attention seeking.
> 
> It is a way of validating their existence and of ensuring that their spouse, children, etc. , still loves them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


there has been ALOT of attentions seeking behavior that has caused damage to our relationship, you hit this right on the point. She has even said after the fact, of doing some terrible behavior, that "I did it to get your attention, to see if you still cared about me", mean while I am LIVID!


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Even without a person raising it on purpose, the bar gets raised by LIFE. With each child, the bar is raised. As the children grow older an have more needs (sports, interests, personalities of their own, acting out needing parental intervention, making and getting the to Dr.'s appointments, checking homework, teacher's conferences, etc.) the bar gets raised again and again. Both parents have to recognize the new responsibilities and help balance them out. So many things get overlooked, and the mother just picks up one more responsibility until she is overwhelmed. It sounds like that is where your wife is...and you too. Maybe she is emotionally weaker than you and you need to take even more responsibilities from her to lighten her load.


Not that kinda of bar raising what I meant was that for example:

She is starting to trust me to talk to a female co-worker, then I tell her a bunch of us ordered takeout and the female co-worker coordinated it, she will have issue with me emailing her about that lunch, b/c I am emailing her personally. 

That is ONE example how she raises the bar of trust, transparency, and communication.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

I am in a constant state on walking on eggshells, where I am punished if I disclose too much information that may hurt her, or worse get a blow-up for forgetting to include/communicate with her about something minor.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then you need to be going to therapy. By yourself. You need professional help to guide you into making things work better.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Impatientguy said:


> I am in a constant state on walking on eggshells, where I am punished if I disclose too much information that may hurt her, or worse get a blow-up for forgetting to include/communicate with her about something minor.


You sound fearful of her. You should not fear your spouse.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

jld said:


> You sound fearful of her. You should not fear your spouse.


not fear, I walk on eggshells make mistakes all the time, and tell myself " o well, don't do that again", or "careful that was a landmine, don't step there again"

She tells me it comes off like I don't care. I am trying not to let things bother me. 

Im not afraid of her, I just am tired of having to explain my actions over and over


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Impatientguy said:


> not fear, I walk on eggshells make mistakes all the time, and tell myself " o well, don't do that again", or "careful that was a landmine, don't step there again"
> 
> She tells me it comes off like I don't care. I am trying not to let things bother me.
> 
> Im not afraid of her, I just am tired of having to explain my actions over and over


The walking on eggshells sounds like fear. If you did not fear her, you would walk normally.

Have you ever told her you feel like you walk on eggshells with her?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Impatientguy said:


> there has been ALOT of attentions seeking behavior that has caused damage to our relationship, you hit this right on the point. She has even said after the fact, of doing some terrible behavior, that "I did it to get your attention, to see if you still cared about me", mean while I am LIVID!


She does this because she is unwell.

I wonder if there was any abuse when she was a child?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Impatientguy said:


> not fear, I walk on eggshells make mistakes all the time, and tell myself " o well, don't do that again", or "careful that was a landmine, don't step there again"
> 
> She tells me it comes off like I don't care. I am trying not to let things bother me.
> 
> Im not afraid of her, I just am tired of having to explain my actions over and over


Yeah. That's familiar to me, too. Living with someone who has Asperger's Syndrome is not easy! 

By the way, has your wife had tests for ASD, Autistic Spectrum Disorders?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't think it is hard to imagine a mother of a teenager, a 3 yo and a 6 mo, working full-time, who got remarried and had children shortly thereafter, being short-tempered.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> Not that kinda of bar raising what I meant was that for example:
> 
> She is starting to trust me to talk to a female co-worker, then I tell her a bunch of us ordered takeout and the female co-worker coordinated it, she will have issue with me emailing her about that lunch, b/c I am emailing her personally.
> 
> That is ONE example how she raises the bar of trust, transparency, and communication.


Has there been any cheating in the relationship? 

If she has high EN for Honesty and Openness
and Conversation

then you may need to sit down and discuss how best they should be met.

What do you mean by punished? Out of control rage or is it more complaining and being upset?


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> not fear, I walk on eggshells make mistakes all the time, and tell myself " o well, don't do that again", or "careful that was a landmine, don't step there again"
> 
> She tells me it comes off like I don't care. I am trying not to let things bother me.
> 
> Im not afraid of her, I just am tired of having to explain my actions over and over


You have no need to defend or explain yourself, especially when you have solid intentions.

What you can do is just ask her how she took it. It is acceptable to simply indicate your intent, or how you wish she took your words. Anything beyond this is unnecessary. If she takes it wrong, her emotions will be elevated, which clouds her mind. At that point, revert back to listening and asking questions.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

btw, you ARE afraid of her.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What is your therapist saying?
You put all the blame on her, and she puts all the blame on you. You are doing 100% of the worrying / trying to fix while she is not.

Basically you have to get to a point where within your marriage:

You and she both share "blame" and share ownership of making things work.
You are both working toward meeting each other's needs in the way that's important to the other person.

How do you get there? You work with you therapist to understand her needs and assert YOUR needs. If she attempts to blame you for all of the problems, you share your perspective with her that you also are not happy, do not feel loved, respected or apprecaited either. You should get her bought in to working with you to create a mutually satisfying marriage. You have to take most of the responsibility for two things.. 1. Meeting her needs whatever they are and 2. Having your needs met by her. That's all you can control.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Hicks said:


> You put all the blame on her, and she puts all the blame on you. You are doing 100% of the worrying / trying to fix while she is not.


That is why it makes no sense for couples to continue trying to reason with one another.
_
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them._

Albert Einstein




> You have to take most of the responsibility for two things.. 1. Meeting her needs whatever they are and 2. Having your needs met by her. That's all you can control.


I come at relationships from a unique perspective. I don't see there being any real control over one's partner. As such, I have to meet my own needs. Relationships work best when partners have natural desires to see each other happy. Hopefully, most relationships are formed between individuals that, more often than not, see eye to eye and share likes/dislikes. When there are differences, it is important for one individual to give. For me, this entails doing things I don't like to do, but enjoying it because I am doing it with her. We can compel a partner to do XYZ, or create the environment that they want to do XYZ on their own.



Relationship Teacher


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

jld said:


> The walking on eggshells sounds like fear. If you did not fear her, you would walk normally.
> 
> Have you ever told her you feel like you walk on eggshells with her?


I have told her constantly


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Impatientguy said:


> I have told her constantly


Sounds like she cannot reassure you.

You need to reassure yourself, or leave her, if you cannot take it.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

UPDATE:

Hopefully I can answer some questions here. Mattmatt, I have never looked into ASD or Asperger's I will have to read up on these. I would have to ask her about abuse as a child. Slowlygoingcrazy, never been cheating, we are both fully committed, re: punished, she feels like she should be punished and deserves to be left. She knows she is not good to me. 

To elaborate, I know some have said that I fear her, I don't feel that way at all rather the opposite, I know I am too confrontational with her and can be at times flat rude, I don't mean too, but I want to get to the point and root of a problem, "so I say to her, cut to the chase" or "lets cut through the bu11sh!t and get the real problem" and she does not like that, so I have to soften it and speak her language, hence walking on eggshells, I cant just say what I think, I have to seriously tone it down so that she does not feel like I am attacking her. 

Today we had a good talk in the am. There was a lot of self-reflecting on her and my part. I feel like there is progress and again like I stated, she acknowledges her problems, the bigger problem arises when I carry to much of her weight and she feel likes I don't acknowledge (listen) to her. She told me again, that she wants me to listen to her talk it out, not so for me to repond, but for her to make sense of her problems (either with me or other)


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Impatientguy said:


> To elaborate, I know some have said that I fear her, I don't feel that way at all rather the opposite, I know I am too confrontational with her and can be at times flat rude, I don't mean too, but I want to get to the point and root of a problem,* "so I say to her, cut to the chase" or "lets cut through the bu11sh!t and get the real problem"* and she does not like that, so I have to soften it and speak her language, hence walking on eggshells, I cant just say what I think, I have to seriously tone it down so that she does not feel like I am attacking her.


I think most people would have a problem with those kinds of statements. I don't think it's "walking on eggshells" in those examples. 
If I'm telling my H something that has stressed me out and I want his support with, if he told me to cut through the BS and get to the point I would feel very unheard and would eventually make me shut down and not want to tell him anything. 

But yes, most of the time women want you to just listen and not try to fix things or get defensive.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Did you read about active listening, OP?


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

To me the million dollar question (and please ignore if you have answered this already) is whether she has been to her OB/GYN specifically to test for and discuss hormonal therapy.

Hormonal depression can go on as long as the hormonal imbalances exist. Standard anti-depressants and therapy often do very little for this type of depression.

There is a ton of uninformed, knee-jerk rejection of this approach, but I know many, many women whose lives have been literally saved by treating what is in actuality a very physical problem with an appropriate medication.


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

jld said:


> Did you read about active listening, OP?


yes, it has been rammed down my throat! It is a work in progress, especially hard when I am just tired and worn out with all this


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> To me the million dollar question (and please ignore if you have answered this already) is whether she has been to her OB/GYN specifically to test for and discuss hormonal therapy.
> 
> Hormonal depression can go on as long as the hormonal imbalances exist. Standard anti-depressants and therapy often do very little for this type of depression.
> 
> There is a ton of uninformed, knee-jerk rejection of this approach, but I know many, many women whose lives have been literally saved by treating what is in actuality a very physical problem with an appropriate medication.


yes she has seen the OBGYN and he prescribed her some meds for PPD.

And NO, he did not do any testing for hormonal therapy, what kind of medication treatment do they do for this, I feel like she has been suffering from something for a long long time, just not sure what it is


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Impatientguy said:


> yes she has seen the OBGYN and he prescribed her some meds for PPD.
> 
> And NO, he did not do any testing for hormonal therapy, what kind of medication treatment do they do for this, I feel like she has been suffering from something for a long long time, just not sure what it is


It sounds to me like her hormones should be tested to see if she has a hormonal imbalance. These are legion and cause huge issues for pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, pms, and pmdd.

It sounds like she has hormonal swings. I am just observing from what you say, but the behavioral symptoms typically are sadness, despair, depression, anger, rage, impatience, et al. Physical symptoms can be periodic acne, sore breasts, abdominal bloating/cramping, unusual hair growth or loss, et al. Most women don't have all of these symptoms, but for me the behavioral ones have always been the worst.

If there is a hormonal problem, the treatments are varied but typically include some type of regular medication. Birth control pills, for example, constitute a treatment vehicle for these types of problems.

I always suffered from pms and my whole family got out of the way in the ten days leading up to my period and the two or three days after it. I always told people that 'I had urges to slap strange men on the street.' I was sad, desperate, and angry & my H was the main target. He really had a bull's eye on his chest on those days.

Perimenopause brought serious hormonal depression and I went on an HRT patch, which (not kidding) lifted my depression within 48 hours of using it.

So....I'm not insisting that this is her problem, but it is certainly worth exploring. If she needs treatment, then you might have a more reasonable baseline to work on any other issues between you.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Impatientguy said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> 
> Today we had a good talk in the am. There was a lot of self-reflecting on her and my part. I feel like there is progress and again like I stated, she acknowledges her problems, the bigger problem arises when I carry to much of her weight and she feel likes I don't acknowledge (listen) to her. She told me again, that she wants me to listen to her talk it out, not so for me to repond, but for her to make sense of her problems (either with me or other)


Just being understood will dramatically increase her feelings of intimacy in the marriage. I am very happy to read this update. Thanks.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Impatientguy (Jan 4, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> It sounds to me like her hormones should be tested to see if she has a hormonal imbalance. These are legion and cause huge issues for pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, pms, and pmdd.
> 
> ...sadness, despair, depression, anger, rage, impatience, et al. Physical symptoms can be periodic acne, sore breasts, abdominal bloating/cramping, unusual hair growth or loss, et al. Most women don't have all of these symptoms, but for me the behavioral ones have always been the worst.
> 
> I always suffered from pms and my whole family got out of the way in the ten days leading up to my period and the two or three days after it. I always told people that 'I had urges to slap strange men on the street.' I was sad, desperate, and angry & my H was the main target. He really had a bull's eye on his chest on those days.


Boy this sounds a lot like her. I am going to have to look into this test.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> Thinking about what she has said to me makes me feel abused.


You would be foolish to feel otherwise, Guy, if what you describe is accurate. You are describing verbal abuse, yelling, and temper tantrums.



Impatientguy said:


> I wonder how much is depression and how much is attention seeking. I hope it is not the latter, I do know that she hangs on too a lot of baggage that happened to her before we met.


Guy, what "baggage" are you referring to? Did it happen only in her first marriage or did she also have a difficult childhood? I ask because, as you already realize, an important issue is whether your W's abusive behavior arises from hormone changes during her pregnancy and postpartum periods or, rather, from an emotional instability she has had since childhood.

It therefore would be helpful to know what you mean by "baggage that happened to her before we met"? Significantly, your first post above states that her mood issues began "shortly after we got together" and have continued most of the time ever since. Your statement that she had "baggage" occurring earlier -- before you met -- suggests that her moodiness may have started a long time ago.


----------



## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I understand that she is being prescribed an anti-depressant but I am wondering if it's by your regular physician?

I would highly encourage her to go to a psychiatrist and rule out the bipolar disorder. Just the limited info that you have written with the PPD; extreme mood swings....just get a rule out. Plus, not on anti depressants work the same on all folks.

Her next step would be getting some IC. If she's refuses, then you also need to get your own IC and figure out some things.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think most people would have a problem with those kinds of statements. I don't think it's "walking on eggshells" in those examples.
> If I'm telling my H something that has stressed me out and I want his support with, if he told me to cut through the BS and get to the point I would feel very unheard and would eventually make me shut down and not want to tell him anything.
> 
> But yes, most of the time women want you to just listen and not try to fix things or get defensive.


If a spouse said it occasionally yes, I agree. But this OP's spouse has been treating him like crap for a long time now, and he's turned himself into a pretzel trying to accommodate her. I don't blame him for a being impatient.


----------



## AussieRN (Mar 28, 2013)

You're describing almost to a tee what I went through with my wife for the better part of 3 or 4 years post 2nd child. 

I got blamed for everything that was wrong with her life. Literally *everything* was my fault. I was doing as much as I could to help with the house and the kids etc.

It wasn't until one night when we were talking and she was (again) telling me how her miserable life was all my fault and that divorce was an option and Id said to her "I love you and want you to be happy so if that's what it takes for you to be happy - there's the door". 

I don't know for your wife but I think when mine realised I wouldn't be a door mat or her excuse to be miserable for much longer the turn around was VERY dramatic.

Within 2 weeks she was back exercising (ran her first marathon about 6 months later), within a month she was initiating sex about half the time, within 3 months she was basically back to being the happy horny woman I married.

To me it sounds like your wife is using you as a punching bag/door mat as a way of not taking responsibility for how she feels. This lets her get away with a lot of otherwise unacceptable behaviour. 

You are unlikely to EVER be able to do enough for her to make her happy. SHE is responsible for HER happy. You may contribute to her happy but the ultimate responsibility for her happy is HERS.

I read somewhere that a happy successful marriage isn't 50/50 its actually 100/100. You both give 100%. 

Give her the 100%. I know its VERY hard when she's in the place she's in but its worth it because doing it will *show* her how much she matters to you, and later if by giving her your best she still carries on and blames you for everything you will at least have a clear conscience post divorce knowing you did everything you could to prevent it.


----------

