# do you think cheating is as bad as withholding sex?



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

I am of the opinion that willfully withholding sex from an exclusive partner in a committed relationship is as felonious as cheating on a partner in a committed relationship. My wife disagrees 

I am not talking about if someone gets sick, or has had a surgery and cannot have sex, I mean where partner A decides unilaterally and indefinitely, that they will not have sex, but at the same time expects partner B not to pursue or have sex with anyone else. This is what I define as withholding sex.

I dont think that this justifies cheating (you still have the option to leave the relationship without causing further emotional damage), but do you think this behavior is as bad as cheating?


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes grounds for divorce/breakup. Not as bad as a long term affair but it is emotional abuse for sure.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

anonim said:


> I am of the opinion that willfully withholding sex from an exclusive partner in a committed relationship is as felonious as cheating on a partner in a committed relationship. My wife disagrees
> 
> I am not talking about if someone gets sick, or has had a surgery and cannot have sex, I mean where partner A decides unilaterally and indefinitely, that they will not have sex, but at the same time expects partner B not to pursue or have sex with anyone else. This is what I define as withholding sex.
> 
> I dont think that this justifies cheating (you still have the option to leave the relationship without causing further emotional damage), but do you think this behavior is as bad as cheating?


Me & mine has talked about this one..... THESE ARE BOTH BETRAYALS of the vows, of the heart.. deeply hurtful...to the core.

Maybe this is easy for me to say as I have never been cheated on.. but I feel strongly... if I willingly withheld intimacy from my husband (sexless being 10 or less times a year....acting the cold "always have a headache, too tired" callous rejecting wife)..if he has been a GOOD MAN in all his ways... knowing this is hurting him & continuing to turn a blind eye...

I would consider myself to have contributed greatly to his weakness in falling into the arms of another.. An honorable man or women would have to GET OUT - being met with that on a regular basis -for their own happiness...even stability. 

People don't get married to be celibate ...I see this as pure emotional abuse... 

Though many times there are other issues at play, being masked - and the sex takes a dive.. Resentment for instance, if a couple can not resolve their other issues (fighting over $$, kids, blame shifting, holding grudges, unforgiveness, etc)...Sex will take a BIG HIT...as resentment rises... 

A man should not expect a willing wife if he has hurt her over & over again...doesn't listen to her.. and makes her feel like dirt...she will not want sex with him.. it always takes 2. ...willing to come together, offer their hand in understanding, to listen to each other and meet each other half way.


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## Random_Girl (Nov 17, 2013)

anonim said:


> I am of the opinion that willfully withholding sex from an exclusive partner in a committed relationship is as felonious as cheating on a partner in a committed relationship. My wife disagrees
> 
> I am not talking about if someone gets sick, or has had a surgery and cannot have sex, I mean where partner *A decides unilaterally and indefinitely*, that they will not have sex, but at the same time expects partner B not to pursue or have sex with anyone else. This is what I define as withholding sex.
> 
> I dont think that this justifies cheating (you still have the option to leave the relationship without causing further emotional damage), but do you think this behavior is as bad as cheating?


Yes, I do. I think they are hurtful and damaging in different ways, but equally wrong.


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## mtn.lioness (Oct 29, 2013)

I think withholding sex is damaging to a relationship, but there is room to regroup and work on the relationship... 

Cheating nearly nullifies the relationship entirely (for me).

I believe both are unhealthy and neither should be introduced to a marriage.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

mtn.lioness said:


> I think withholding sex is damaging to a relationship, but there is room to regroup and work on the relationship...
> 
> Cheating nearly nullifies the relationship entirely (for me).
> 
> I believe both are unhealthy and neither should be introduced to a marriage.


what makes the difference for you, between withholding as I defined it in the original post and cheating, as far as a relationship goes?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think both acts are equally as damaging to a relationship but the fallout not as bad as cheating if the relationship ends.

I told my husband that I consider withholding sex as a betrayal of the marriage vows. He disagrees - but he's the LD spouse so of course he'd say that.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I would say they're both betrayal of the wedding vows. And the resentments and damage to the self esteem are somewhat similar, although the "sexless" situation is a much more gradual erosion, rather than the earthquake of an affair.

Having said all that... I do feel that at least in my case, my affair was "worse" than my wife unilaterally deciding to kill our sex life. I think my actions were much more deliberate and conscious. Over the period of my affairs, there were many deceptions and lies that were told. 

Would I say the same thing if I had a single drunken one night stand? Probably not. But I can only comment on my situation.

C


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## Random_Girl (Nov 17, 2013)

frusdil said:


> I think both acts are equally as damaging to a relationship but the fallout not as bad as cheating if the relationship ends.


:iagree:


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Definitely. Withholding sex, name calling, violence, and cheating stand on the same line for me. Total deal breakers that nobody should have to put up with. All of them qualify as a form of ABUSE and for the religious- of breaking vows, where you promised to "cherish".


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

My response is colored by the fact that this happened to me, and it was tremendously useful for me to realize, at the time, that the equation with cheating is quite reasonable. Only when I realized that was I able to find a way to get out of a marriage that had become a torture chamber.

My H simply refused to have sex with me. For years. 

At first the damage was only emotional but in time I was dealing with genuinely physical problems as well. I was young and fertile and in agony. By being my husband, he was occupying my sexual space, right? but by not participating, he was in effect barring me from having any physical or emotional fulfillment via sex. It very nearly killed me (it caused peculiar health problems). 

Eventually I saw no difference between this horrible rip-off and cheating. In fact I kept wishing he was having an affair so I could be reassured he was healthy, to imagine he had an excuse however sordid. Instead, of course I had to assume I was repulsive or something else that was my fault. 

I consider his behavior to have been willful insofar as we discussed it and he refused to explain it, much less do anything about it. Of course, being the woman in the matter, I found it disgusting that I had to beg and plead for sex. 

I concluded that it was the lowest form of betrayal of what marriage is supposed to be, and an act of cruelty besides. You cannot lay claim to the natural sexual role in a marriage and then not fulfill it while also disallowing your spouse to find satisfaction elsewhere, somehow, and therefore it is a betrayal, so, yes, a form of cheating, depriving one's spouse of full affection, or directing it elsewhere. For my H it was either drugs or drugs and porn, I still don't know. I would rather it had been another woman, frankly. At least it would have made some kind of sense, even if painful.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

questar1 thank you for sharing your experience and perspective


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

While I don't think they're on the same spectrum , I think they're both bad and extremely damaging to a relationship.
But based on what I've read here on TAM ,the expressions of those in sexless marriages ,I think that there's something inherently evil about purposely withholding sex , especially in a marriage.


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## daSaint (Sep 20, 2013)

1 Corinthians 7:3-5
New Living Translation (NLT) 

3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s
needs. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time 


The Message Bible puts it this way

...The marriage bed must be a place of mutuality—the husband seeking to satisfy his wife, the wife seeking to satisfy her husband. Marriage is not a place to “stand up for your rights.” Marriage is a decision to serve the other, whether in bed or out. Abstaining from sex is permissible for a period of time if you both agree to it....


you CHEAT your spouse by consciously choosing/DENYING him/her sex, sexual pleasures/fulfilment. It is an abuse of the marital union. It's understandable if health issues are involved or if one spouse is being a jerk and insensitive to the other spouse's non-sexual needs.

OTOH, the difference between 'cheating' on a spouse and cheating a spouse (of sex) is that the 1st is infidelity to the spouse, while the 2nd is abuse of the marriage.
bottom line...both are damaging to different degrees/directions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

I have been through both situations. Actually, still in a sexless marriage. He has no physical limitations or medical problems. Both are extremely damaging and have long term affects to the psyche. They each destroy your self esteem, sense of self worth and happiness about life in general. Combined, its a Molotov ****tail to the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

daSaint said:


> 1 Corinthians 7:3-5
> New Living Translation (NLT)
> 
> 3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s
> ...


:smthumbup: ... Even though I do not consider myself a Christian in the fundamental sense any longer -yet still find much wisdom in the Bible.... I whole heartily agree with these scriptures... the only thing I would take issue with is blaming it on Satan that one gets Tempted...as it says in verse 5...."....Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.". No...reason tells me - the withholding spouse IS the cause of that! 

If a husband does not treat a wife with love (or the other way around), a woman would be horribly offended by this .. but if she is treated with great care, love & respect, in fact CHERISHED...I can only see this as a beautiful model for the marriage bed, the way it was intended to be. 



Questar1.. When I read stories like yours...and if one fell...I have MORE sympathy for the cheater ....... It would offend me greatly , my sense of justice & fairness (empathy for what one was dealing with)..if such a spouse walking in similar shoes was lumped in the same category of , let's say... a sexually fulfilled husband with a willing / giving wife at home...yet screws his hot secretary behind her back on a regular basis..... 

One is out or pure self gratifying selfishness & disregard to marriage vows... while the other was out of desperation, a feeling of drowning, loneliness... from living with a selfish un- giving unwilling spouse... Somehow I just can not see THAT person as a victim, only one who brought this upon his or her marriage.....again not Satan.. but the rejecting spouse.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

The OP uses the term "cheating" which has a special set of meanings here.

If a partner simply withholds sex, after the third or fourth iteration, you will know what is going on.

Regarding cheating, many people do not find out until years or decades later. Additionally, with cheating, your partner is bringing a third person into your marriage without your knowledge. suddenly, the household budget can't pay for anything, I wonder why. The cheating partner no longer has time for things once considered important, the non cheating partner does not know why.

The cheating partner may not be too choosy. Some betrayed spouses might have to deal with psycho APs that they had no say in. Some BSs may have to deal with health issues as well.

I do not equate withholding sex with cheating.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

questar1 said:


> My response is colored by the fact that this happened to me, and it was tremendously useful for me to realize, at the time, that the equation with cheating is quite reasonable. Only when I realized that was I able to find a way to get out of a marriage that had become a torture chamber.
> 
> My H simply refused to have sex with me. For years.
> 
> ...


Your situation reminds me of a young couple I knew a few years ago. When I heard they were divorcing I was shocked. They were both young professionals and she was beautiful. When I found out it was because he was not having sex with her(or anyone for that matter ) I had a feeling of anger and revulsion similar to that of cheating.
I think they are equally evil and devastating but cheating brings another into the bedroom and further complicates things.

I am floored by men who aren't after their women like a wanderer to an oasis!
Even if she tried, my wife could not slow the beat of my heart when I look at her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

anonim said:


> I am of the opinion that willfully withholding sex from an exclusive partner in a committed relationship is as felonious as cheating on a partner in a committed relationship. My wife disagrees
> 
> I am not talking about if someone gets sick, or has had a surgery and cannot have sex, I mean where partner A decides unilaterally and indefinitely, that they will not have sex, but at the same time expects partner B not to pursue or have sex with anyone else. This is what I define as withholding sex.
> 
> I dont think that this justifies cheating (you still have the option to leave the relationship without causing further emotional damage), *but do you think this behavior is as bad as cheating?*


No. Both behaviors are marriage busters, both are abusive of the spouse, but only infidelity brings a living breathing third party between the marriage partners, and thus stands alone as the ultimate betrayal of the marriage vows. This is where I disagree with those such as Remorseful Strayer who see infidelity as only one of a number of equally bad marriage issues.


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## daSaint (Sep 20, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> :smthumbup:blaming it on Satan that one gets Tempted...as it says in verse 5...."....Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.". No...reason tells me - the withholding spouse IS the cause of that!



True talk SA...the rejecting spouse is purposefully pushing the rejected spouse into a minefield of sexual temptation. Although two wrongs don't make a right, the rejecting spouse is equally to blame for whatever reults from his/her rejection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## timedoesnothealall (Sep 15, 2013)

anonim said:


> what makes the difference for you, between withholding as I defined it in the original post and cheating, as far as a relationship goes?


Withholding usually involves less deceit, no OP and avoidance of "mind movies" ... Having been a BS, I'd take withholding over cheating any old day.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

They are both a form of theft of the marriage. One feels robbed in both cases. The sense of profound injustice and victimization is therefore similar: You took something to which I was exclusively entitled. 

In my case, for instance, I now have to look back over 16 years of my most fertile, juicy years during which I was, through my vows, exclusively bonded to a man who ignored me (I call them my Chopped Liver Years--I felt like chopped liver). 

If there had been another woman involved I would be accusing her of this theft. As it is, my own exH stole these years from me. 

Trust me, you don't want to tell anyone that your H won't have sex with you! I can't imagine anything more embarrassing! I was trapped in the silent horror of something I had never heard of. I tried talking about it in counseling and got some really useless "advice." 

Cheating would have given me a clear answer and some social sympathy, something others could relate to and advise on. Forced celibacy? Is that grounds for leaving? 

Finally I had an exit affair, if that's what it was--coldhearted sex, twice, by agreement with an acquaintance. It was boring. It added to my conviction that my sexual years were over. But at least i had committed an official breach of my marriage and could justify divorce. (Go ahead & laugh; I was very naive. Later I learned I had not needed an "excuse" but in my heart I thought it was better to have one anyway.)

So, technically, I cheated! 

Which was worse? Sixteen years of stealing a woman's prime sexual years, or my quickie PA so that I would "qualify" for divorce on the basis of adultery?

Judge me. 

My exH did. He is still telling everyone that my PA (which I disclosed to him) broke up our family. I have never had the nerve to correct this in public. Some day I might. "The reason I left is because X refused to have sex." See how dumb that sounds? So I guess he wins. I'm the bad guy. I mean, I actually had the A.


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

questar1 said:


> They are both a form of theft of the marriage. One feels robbed in both cases. The sense of profound injustice and victimization is therefore similar: You took something to which I was exclusively entitled.
> 
> In my case, for instance, I now have to look back over 16 years of my most fertile, juicy years during which I was, through my vows, exclusively bonded to a man who ignored me (I call them my Chopped Liver Years--I felt like chopped liver).
> 
> ...


I relate completely to everything you're saying. My marriage is similar and we've had both issues come up over the course of our 15+ years together. He being the withholder and me being the cheater. 

I don't know if I can say which is worse. I do know that I also feel like 'the bad guy' because what I did was more of a monumental, acute event. And I have felt that my straying from the marriage has somehow negated his neglecting me physically and emotionally. If there were ever any 'sympathy' to be had, no matter how many times you hear that the withholder is pushing their partner to desperation, as soon as it actually happens, the tables turn and you are now the one in the wrong. Cheating is the more definitive error, a purposeful action that is never ok. Chronic inattention and lack of sex and intimacy are much more quiet and insidious in nature, like comparing death by a thousand cuts vs a single shot to the head. I am doubtful that we will recover from either one.

I will never say he is to blame for what I did, because my actions were my choice; I have remained faithful for the vast majority of our marriage in spite of how rejected I felt. I feel like putting the blame on him would mean that I have no control over my actions. It has been 6 years since I told him about it, and even though the intimacy level in our marriage has stayed more or less the same, and it still hurts just as much, I am fully capable of choosing differently, and I have done just that. If there is a responsibility on his part, it is for the way he makes me feel- unloved, unattractive, unfulfilled, desperately lonely, etc, etc. What I did with those feelings is on me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I consider withholding and cheating the same thing. They're equal in my eyes. And if the withholder is cheated on, I consider it equivalent to a revenge affair. Like cheaters, I think withholders generally deserve what they get.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't consider them the same thing. They are both harmful, but it's like comparing the difference between punching someone and shooting them.

Break lack of sex down into two scenarios: Withholding and No Desire

Withholding implies a willful action to deny sex. Sex is being used specifically as a form of manipulation. 

No Desire means the person does not have the interest for sex. 

The two are very different. I would view withholding as a break of the marriage vows, but not as bad as cheating. No desire is unfortunate, but I don't see that as breaking the marriage vows. It's like the person became disabled and could no longer have sex.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think that both are abusive in a relationship, but the level of deception required to pull off an affair puts the affair way ahead in the evil column.

Also, there can be a lot of causes for sexlessness, not all of them are malicious (abusive, yes, but not necessarily intentional and malicious). Not so with an affair.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

I vote for option 3, being in a sexless marriage because the SO is having an affair. THAT destroys you, happened to me.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Withholding it seems to me might be more sinister, particularly if the perpetrator/withholder knows how much the withholdee adores and craves sex and intimacy, and also knows that the withholdee will not him or herself cheat. 

Whereas the cheater often just has the-more-the-better mentality and spreads the "love" around. The spouse/betrayed is getting intimacy just not under the conditions expected. 

One I think (withholding and not having sex with anyone else either) is far more sinister. It would seem that the perp is willing to forego a basic human need of intimacy for themselves in order to inflict damage on another. Whereas in the other case, that of cheating while maintaining sex with the partner, is not at all punishing to the perp, or less punishing, and therefore less sinister in my world view.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I think cheating is worse because after cheated on, if your a woman, don't know about men, sex isn't as good. Plus besides the betrayal you are usually being verbally abused. Women don't have orgasms with men that have cheated, maybe a rare individual can. So if you have been cheated on and still love this man sex isn't going to be that great. Which can lead to not wanting to have it as much and being frustrated because your not getting there ever which may lead to another affair.

Usually when someone starts withholding sex something has happened to hurt that person. I don't know about you guys but most women will go out of their way to please their man even when hormones are low if that man has treated them right and hasn't cheated.


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

Thebes said:


> I think cheating is worse because after cheated on, if your a woman, don't know about men, sex isn't as good. Plus besides the betrayal you are usually being verbally abused. Women don't have orgasms with men that have cheated, maybe a rare individual can. So if you have been cheated on and still love this man sex isn't going to be that great. Which can lead to not wanting to have it as much and being frustrated because your not getting there ever which may lead to another affair.
> 
> Usually when someone starts withholding sex something has happened to hurt that person.* I don't know about you guys but most women will go out of their way to please their man even when hormones are low if that man has treated them right and hasn't cheated*.


Exactly. My STBXH was abusive and treated me horribly, and he couldn't understand why I didn't want to have sex with him. I would communicate why I was upset and no change. Oh and he'd been cheating on me the whole time. I wasn't with-holding, just wanted him to stop abusing me, then I would want to have sex with him ( still had sex, just not a lot). IMO Cheating, worse than with-holding.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

NeverMore said:


> Exactly. My STBXH was abusive and treated me horribly, and he couldn't understand why I didn't want to have sex with him. I would communicate why I was upset and no change. Oh and he'd been cheating on me the whole time. I wasn't with-holding, just wanted him to stop abusing me, then I would want to have sex with him ( still had sex, just not a lot). IMO Cheating, worse than with-holding.


Why do you think he did you like that? Just that selfish or blindly following single friends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Why do you think he did you like that? Just that selfish or blindly following single friends?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just that selfish. Several therapists diagnosed him as NPD.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Cheating is cheating--immoral, formerly illegal. That's why it's called "cheating." Breach of contract. 

Withholding sexual access in marriage, however, is better understood (as one poster said) as *abuse*. Physical and emotional abuse. It belongs in that category.

So, the question is, Which is worse--betrayal or abuse? Probably hard to come to any general agreement. Both are inexcusable and intolerable.

As for being deliberate or just LD--my exH wouldn't even discuss it so I don't know the reason. IOW, this was not a shared experience. A healthy married couple would share this situation and find a solution. My exH did not want a solution. Therefore, he essentially approved of my suffering. As if he wanted me to hurt. 

Which I think is something shared with cheaters. They don't care about the suffering they are causing. 

And that is reprehensible.


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## Daisy2714 (Sep 22, 2013)

anonim said:


> I am of the opinion that willfully withholding sex from an exclusive partner in a committed relationship is as felonious as cheating on a partner in a committed relationship. My wife disagrees
> 
> I am not talking about if someone gets sick, or has had a surgery and cannot have sex, I mean where partner A decides unilaterally and indefinitely, that they will not have sex, but at the same time expects partner B not to pursue or have sex with anyone else. This is what I define as withholding sex.
> 
> I dont think that this justifies cheating (you still have the option to leave the relationship without causing further emotional damage), but do you think this behavior is as bad as cheating?


This is a great question and there have been many great responses. My husband hasn't cheated on me although I am familiar with that pain. He has withheld sex from me for more than 14 months prior to leaving for the middle east. Until just two days before he left, he never told me why. For 14 months I was rejected and had no idea why I was rejected. I definitely consider it cruel and at the very least emotionally abusive. 

To add to that, once he told me what it was about, I realized he did it on purpose to punish me. It all boiled down to a statement I made that in general, sex is more important to men than it is to women. I was completely dumbstruck that he would be offended by that and hold it against me for so long without even letting me know what the problem was. It was the last straw for me and I found this forum a few days after he left. It took quite a while to even want to talk to him again after that. Other than his sarcasm when he's angry, I've never known him to intentionally try to hurt me.

Thanks for bringing this topic up. It's a great question.


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