# Should girlfriends Past be an issue?



## Talk2Me

I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.


BUT.......

Her past makes me absolutely crazy. 

She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans. 

Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.

Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


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## Tasorundo

You have a choice to make: You can take the relationship you have right now, which by all of your accounts is great and has an amazing future. Or, you can throw it all away because sometime before she met you she had sex with other people.

What you are experiencing is called retroactive jealousy. It is a very, very ugly thing if you get right down to it.

I am assuming she was not your first partner, right? Does she get to judge everything you have done before you met her?


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## jlg07

If you really want the relationship, YOU may want to go to counselling to see how to overcome this and learn to deal with the feelings.

Have you talked with HER about it?


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## Yeswecan

You should let the past be the past now. Your GF actions "now" should tell you enough.


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## Andy1001

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


It is your girlfriends past that makes her the woman she is now. 
If this is a deal breaker then tell her sooner rather than later so that she can find someone who doesn’t have your hang ups. 
Just remember you are talking about a beautiful,successful,intelligent woman who loves having sex with you. Finding another one may be difficult.


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## Talk2Me

Tasorundo said:


> You have a choice to make: You can take the relationship you have right now, which by all of your accounts is great and has an amazing future. Or, you can throw it all away because sometime before she met you she had sex with other people.
> 
> What you are experiencing is called retroactive jealousy. It is a very, very ugly thing if you get right down to it.
> 
> I am assuming she was not your first partner, right? Does she get to judge everything you have done before you met her?


Obviously she wasn't my first partner. I've been with about 10 women in my life. I also obviously come with a past. My previous relationship was 16 years long and I was married for 13 of those. She has a hard time dealing with that as she was never married before nor ever in a serious relationship like I was.

I'm fine with her having sex with other people before we met as everyone has but the number of guys bothers me greatly and that she was essentially paid to have sex with someone kills me.

I def. don't want to throw our relationship away over something she did years ago as I do love her I just wonder if I will ever get to the point where it doesn't bother me. The Sugar Daddy part is my biggest issue. The other guys sometimes bothers me but I can get over that.


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## Talk2Me

Andy1001 said:


> It is your girlfriends past that makes her the woman she is now.
> If this is a deal breaker then tell her sooner rather than later so that she can find someone who doesn’t have your hang ups.
> Just remember you are talking about a beautiful,successful,intelligent woman who loves having sex with you. Finding another one may be difficult.


Honestly, it's so weird because we have the craziest sex life ever. People wouldn't believe me if I told them. haha We also have a ton of passion and we spend a ton of time together and go on vacations etc. We can have crazy sex like in a porno but then just lay cuddling for hours touching each other in a loving way. It truly is the best of both worlds.


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## MovingForward

Talk2Me said:


> Obviously she wasn't my first partner. I've been with about 10 women in my life. I also obviously come with a past. My previous relationship was 16 years long and I was married for 13 of those. She has a hard time dealing with that as she was never married before nor ever in a serious relationship like I was.
> 
> I'm fine with her having sex with other people before we met as everyone has but the number of guys bothers me greatly and that she was essentially paid to have sex with someone kills me.
> 
> I def. don't want to throw our relationship away over something she did years ago as I do love her I just wonder if I will ever get to the point where it doesn't bother me. The Sugar Daddy part is my biggest issue. The other guys sometimes bothers me but I can get over that.


I have same jealousy issues, Also married for a long time(12years) and married young so missed out on all the sleeping around but if you break it down you have 10 and was in relationship for 16 years, imagine how many if you weren't.

I do totally understand how you feel but people change and we all **** up and do stupid things.


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## Talk2Me

jlg07 said:


> If you really want the relationship, YOU may want to go to counselling to see how to overcome this and learn to deal with the feelings.
> 
> Have you talked with HER about it?


I've talked to her about it and she just cries. She said after she did it she couldn't look at herself in the mirror and it took her years to be able to get over her bad decision. She brings up my ex-wife often as that is a pain point for her and we talk about it and I'm 100% honest with her with whatever she wants to know.


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## Talk2Me

MovingForward said:


> I have same jealousy issues, Also married for a long time(12years) and married young so missed out on all the sleeping around but if you break it down you have 10 and was in relationship for 16 years, imagine how many if you weren't.
> 
> I do totally understand how you feel but people change and we all **** up and do stupid things.


I totally agree with this. The crazy part is that when I got divorced she is the only woman I dated afterwards. I met her and I couldn't get enough. We connected immediately and have been together since. I thought I would be a man-***** after getting divorced but the exact opposite happened. haha


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## Yeswecan

Talk2Me said:


> Honestly, it's so weird because we have the craziest sex life ever. People wouldn't believe me if I told them. haha We also have a ton of passion and we spend a ton of time together and go on vacations etc. We can have crazy sex like in a porno but then just lay cuddling for hours touching each other in a loving way. It truly is the best of both worlds.


I can not see any problems here. Let the past be the past.


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## Tasorundo

I understand that it is something you have to work through, I really do.

My point was that you need to really look at it for what it is, you are making a judgement on her, you are saying that you are better, you deserve better, or that she is beneath you, because of her past.

Even in the few sentences you said about the sugar daddy, I can see how it could happen to someone. As for her early start and number of partners, those are very connected issues. I would imagine that if you were to sit with her and a therapist there would be a lot of unpacking feelings that she had to do the things she did. That she needed to have a 'man' in her life for some psychological reason, and the way to get one and keep him was to have sex.

I doubt that at 11, she made a reasoned and well thought out decision to start having sex.

Another thing that often happens, is that once you cross a line with a partner, that line is already crossed with the next. So crossing that line so early, made it easy to cross with the next, and being that young there were a lot of opportunities for next.

Consider if you hadn't been married all those years, how many people do you think you would have on your list?


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## Talk2Me

Tasorundo said:


> I understand that it is something you have to work through, I really do.
> 
> My point was that you need to really look at it for what it is, you are making a judgement on her, you are saying that you are better, you deserve better, or that she is beneath you, because of her past.
> 
> Even in the few sentences you said about the sugar daddy, I can see how it could happen to someone. As for her early start and number of partners, those are very connected issues. I would imagine that if you were to sit with her and a therapist there would be a lot of unpacking feelings that she had to do the things she did. That she needed to have a 'man' in her life for some psychological reason, and the way to get one and keep him was to have sex.
> 
> I doubt that at 11, she made a reasoned and well thought out decision to start having sex.
> 
> Another thing that often happens, is that once you cross a line with a partner, that line is already crossed with the next. So crossing that line so early, made it easy to cross with the next, and being that young there were a lot of opportunities for next.
> 
> Consider if you hadn't been married all those years, how many people do you think you would have on your list?


She also didn't want a boyfriend or any serious relationship. When we first met she was very clear about that and said she hasn't been in a relationship for a few years because it wasn't what she wanted. We met and all of that changed and we both felt that way at first. We went out a few times and ended all ties with anyone else we were talking to. Everything just fell into place and worked out. I guess I need to just figure out how to let it go and focus on us. Also, in all reality if someone wanted to pay me $1500 for sex I would do it without hesitation if I was single and amassing a ton of debt for school.


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## jlg07

"I'm fine with her having sex with other people before we met as everyone has but the number of guys bothers me greatly and that she was essentially paid to have sex with someone kills me.

I def. don't want to throw our relationship away over something she did years ago as I do love her I just wonder if I will ever get to the point where it doesn't bother me. The Sugar Daddy part is my biggest issue. The other guys sometimes bothers me but I can get over that."

You already said how bad she feels about making that mistake -- give her some credit for growing up and only allowing it to go on as long as it did.

You have this issue with her, she has her issues with your exW. Talk, work them out (no matter HOW many times you both have to go through it until it's resolved). If you make each other feel loved and you are confident in her loving you, then you need to remember she was young, stupid and really regrets it.

The only thing I'd worry about is that starting sex a 11 years old (YIKES!), and having that many partners and not having an LTR, does she always seek attention from men? Now that you are together, does she flirt? Does she seem to seek out attention from guys (even in small ways)? If she does, you need to think about that.
If she doesn't and is happy with your relationship, then you should be fine once you talk these issues out.


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## ConanHub

Well @Talk2Me

I wouldn't be bothered in the least especially since she was open and honest with me.

I would be concerned about her recovery from being a child rape victim and the intervening years, like how she dealt with it, how she became healthy and where her head is at now.

If she is emotionally and mentally solid, I would never let her go as long as we had similar values and agreed on a direction for our life.

She didn't exactly have a great childhood and I bet my brand new boots she had a lot of tough years.

I wouldn't have any problems with her past myself as long as the past really stays in the past.


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## Talk2Me

jlg07 said:


> "I'm fine with her having sex with other people before we met as everyone has but the number of guys bothers me greatly and that she was essentially paid to have sex with someone kills me.
> 
> I def. don't want to throw our relationship away over something she did years ago as I do love her I just wonder if I will ever get to the point where it doesn't bother me. The Sugar Daddy part is my biggest issue. The other guys sometimes bothers me but I can get over that."
> 
> You already said how bad she feels about making that mistake -- give her some credit for growing up and only allowing it to go on as long as it did.
> 
> You have this issue with her, she has her issues with your exW. Talk, work them out (no matter HOW many times you both have to go through it until it's resolved). If you make each other feel loved and you are confident in her loving you, then you need to remember she was young, stupid and really regrets it.
> 
> The only thing I'd worry about is that starting sex a 11 years old (YIKES!), and having that many partners and not having an LTR, does she always seek attention from men? Now that you are together, does she flirt? Does she seem to seek out attention from guys (even in small ways)? If she does, you need to think about that.
> If she doesn't and is happy with your relationship, then you should be fine once you talk these issues out.




She does not seek attention from guys at all. She doesn’t flirt with any guys or anything at all. She is absolutely beautiful so guys on Facebook etc. message her fairly often and she just blocks that. When we go out her focus is always 100% on me. Occasionally we have gone places and shell point out other women which we are both fine with. Ha ha In all honesty she is completely faithful and truly only wants attention from me


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## jlg07

Talk2Me said:


> She does not seek attention from guys at all. She doesn’t flirt with any guys or anything at all. She is absolutely beautiful so guys on Facebook etc. message her fairly often and she just blocks that. When we go out her focus is always 100% on me. Occasionally we have gone places and shell point out other women which we are both fine with. Ha ha In all honesty she is completely faithful and truly only wants attention from me


Then I don't see any red flags. Her past has given her enough experience to know what she wants in a relationship, and that seems to be YOU! Talk it out, think it out and get past it. 


Just curious, 11YO seems WAY too young to me -- did she ever talk to you about why she started having sex so early???


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Who is she right now? 

We all grow/evolve... hopefully for the better. 

She has some concern about your previous marriage. This tells me she puts more stock in a long term committed relationship than flings. Ergo, you are more important to her than her past. Maybe you should think correspondingly: that she (who she is now) is more important than her past.


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## Talk2Me

jlg07 said:


> Talk2Me said:
> 
> 
> 
> She does not seek attention from guys at all. She doesn’t flirt with any guys or anything at all. She is absolutely beautiful so guys on Facebook etc. message her fairly often and she just blocks that. When we go out her focus is always 100% on me. Occasionally we have gone places and shell point out other women which we are both fine with. Ha ha In all honesty she is completely faithful and truly only wants attention from me
> 
> 
> 
> Then I don't see any red flags. Her past has given her enough experience to know what she wants in a relationship, and that seems to be YOU! Talk it out, think it out and get past it.
> 
> 
> Just curious, 11YO seems WAY too young to me -- did she ever talk to you about why she started having sex so early???
Click to expand...


She said she was mostly defiant to her mom and didnt know what was really happening. She was 11
And the loser was 16. She said it was awful


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## jlg07

Ugh. what a horrible thing for such a little girl -- bad price to pay for defiance. Sounds like she's grown up OUT of that "defiant" times (I hope!) and now knows what she wants.


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## dubsey

So long as she doesn't have a history of sleeping with other dudes while committed to other dudes, I'd just let it go, man.

My ex-wife was a few years older than me, and had 3 times the number of partners I had when we got together when I was 20. Difference being, I'd been with one girl a long time, relatively speaking while she had a series of relationships that were very short in duration. Turns out, despite my much smaller number, I was vastly more experienced than her and had done way more "stuff" and it bothered her a lot that I had that level of experience and comfort with someone else.

So, her number bothers you, your level of intimacy with your ex bothers her because she hasn't had that in her life. point to both of you, now move on and enjoy what ya have...


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## FieryHairedLady

Your gf was RAPED by this 16 y/o.

She then became promiscuous. 

She is not like that any more.

Leave the past in the past.

Figure out if you can do that.

If you can not, then you need to let her go NOW.

Not fair to take her off the market and then decide later you can't handle it.


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## x598

why is it that a cow, in a beautiful lush pasture full of green soft grass, will stick its head through the fence and munch on weeds?


food for thought OP.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Ugh...So she SAYS she slept with 40 guys. Sooo, it could be even more! Like WAY more.

I dont think I could do that...well I might could do that. But not monogamously. And I guarantee she has a lot of baggage. What are you looking for with her? And how old are you?


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## Cynthia

A couple of people here have mentioned it, but you need to understand that an eleven year old doesn't have the capacity to give consent for sex. She really was raped by that young man. I wonder if she's dealt with that. It would be a concern for me. Another thing that you should pay attention to that was already mentioned is that the reason she became promiscuous was due to the rape. If she cries when she talks about her past, that means she is not over it. She needs individual counseling.

And so do you. If you cannot deal with her past, including the "sugar daddy" thing, it's not something that you can work out with her, because she's not currently doing anything that contributes to your feelings. This is about how you are dealing with the information from her past and is something you need to work through with help. Do not burden her with your issues about this, as she literally cannot do a thing to help you and it's obviously causing her pain or she wouldn't be crying.

Stop making her cry by bringing up her shame. Recommend she see a therapist that is trained in dealing with childhood rape. Get yourself into a therapist and start dealing with why all this is so hard for you to deal with when you obviously love this woman. You said that you would have done the same things yourself and I'm assuming you weren't raped, so I don't' understand why you are judging her for this. It's having a negative impact on your relationship, so it has to be dealt with. It's easier to deal with it if you get the help of someone who knows what they're doing; a therapist.


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## 3Xnocharm

If this bothers you, you need to let her go. We have seen before on this board how ridiculous a man can get with the whole retro jealousy thing, and that woman does NOT deserve to be punished just because YOU have some hang-up.


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## farsidejunky

OP, you know this has little to do with her...and everything to do with you...right?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Deejo

farsidejunky said:


> OP, you know this has little to do with her...and everything to do with you...right?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yeah ... so lets get down to it. 

Can you articulate exactly what the feelings are that were strong enough that you decided to register and post here?


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## x598

farsidejunky said:


> OP, you know this has little to do with her...and everything to do with you...right?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


bingo. OP time for you to apologize sincerely for making her feel like a ****. there is a saying...…"before old and wise comes young and dumb" and regardless of choices she made in the past...….its fair to say based on the way she treats you now......this is all about you and your insecurities and you are going to ruin a good thing.

keep this up and eventually she will get sick of it a dump you.


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## dreamer2017

Dear Talk2Me,

My brother was in your shoes by dating and marrying a woman who had a lot of partners including a few months of offering sex for money. After many years of marriage, she had become the best wife and mother any man could want. The entire family, including my mother, loved and respected her and her dedication she gave to her husband (my brother) and children. Thanks for allowing me to share my story. The choice is yours.

Best,
Dreamer


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## Talk2Me

People on here are attacking me saying I make her feel like crap etc. That is not the case at all. This is something I deal with on my own when I’m not with her. It comes up time to time and it makes me sad. I don’t often think about it but when I do it seems to bother me for a few days. I think that is pretty normal. I don’t make her cry nor do I make her feel dirty or anything like that. I love her for who she is now I just struggle with some of the things she did when she was younger. Unfortunately everybody comes with baggage Myself included.


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## Talk2Me

She has dealt with her past with a professional. She has a behavioral analyst so she understands her actions better than most. As others have said here she says the same that you can’t change her past But it has molded her into the caring woman that she is today


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## Cynthia

She sounds wonderful. Perhaps if you think of this through eyes of compassion it will help you. Think, "That poor little girl. Look how she's overcome and blossomed into a beautiful, compassionate woman. I'm so blessed to have her."


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Talk2Me said:


> She has dealt with her past with a professional. She has a behavioral analyst so she understands her actions better than most. As others have said here she says the same that you can’t change her past *But it has molded her into the caring woman that she is today*


Sounds like you've answered your own top line question right there. Be thankful she has had the experiences which have molded her into the woman you love.

Really, do you need to think on it any harder than that?


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## Talk2Me

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Sounds like you've answered your own top line question right there. Be thankful she has had the experiences which have molded her into the woman you love.
> 
> Really, do you need to think on it any harder than that?


You're def. right. Every 4-6 weeks or so I start dwelling on it for whatever reason and it makes me upset. Then, I stop thinking about it and for whatever reason something gets me thinking about it again and it makes me sad. I've had several serious relationships but none like this one. She is always excited to see me and goes out of her way to make time for me. We plan things together and we get along great. We almost never argue and when we do we clear things up quickly.

We both want to get married and build a family together. We even planned another cruise for next August which we just booked touring Europe so we are SUPER excited about that. We just got back from a cruise 2 weeks ago and already booked our next adventure. We obviously believe we have a future together or we wouldn't have booked a vacation for a year and a half way. haha


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Talk2Me said:


> You're def. right. Every 4-6 weeks or so I start dwelling on it for whatever reason and it makes me upset. Then, I stop thinking about it and for whatever reason something gets me thinking about it again and it makes me sad. I've had several serious relationships but none like this one. She is always excited to see me and goes out of her way to make time for me. We plan things together and we get along great. We almost never argue and when we do we clear things up quickly.
> 
> We both want to get married and build a family together. We even planned another cruise for next August which we just booked touring Europe so we are SUPER excited about that. We just got back from a cruise 2 weeks ago and already booked our next adventure. We obviously believe we have a future together or we wouldn't have booked a vacation for a year and a half way. haha


This is a great post to read!

It sounds like you understand, at least intellectually, and to some degree emotionally, but there's still a stuck point in there. Do you think you can get over this? Are the moments of concern getting more or less frequent? It's something you really want to be over before committing to marriage and family. 

There's probably a hundred reasons you sometimes have these negative thoughts. Just coming to understand their origin can often be enough to get over them. If you continue to struggle, might be worth you talking with a counselor before the two of you commit to something far more involved than what you currently have, not just for your sake, but for hers. You see, if you really love her and want what's best for her as well as yourself, it's your duty to present yourself as a mate free of this baggage which can negatively affect her as much as it does you.


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## EleGirl

Talk2Me said:


> I've talked to her about it and she just cries. She said after she did it she couldn't look at herself in the mirror and it took her years to be able to get over her bad decision. She brings up my ex-wife often as that is a pain point for her and we talk about it and I'm 100% honest with her with whatever she wants to know.


If you cannot learn to let this go, it will destroy your relationship. A time will come when she will reject you because of your shaming her for something that she cannot change.

You'd be better off just ending the relationship then keeping with the status quo.


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## Buddy400

Talk2Me said:


> Honestly, it's so weird because we have the craziest sex life ever. People wouldn't believe me if I told them. haha We also have a ton of passion and we spend a ton of time together and go on vacations etc. We can have crazy sex like in a porno but then just lay cuddling for hours touching each other in a loving way. It truly is the best of both worlds.


Should her past be an issue? 

That depends on you. You don't *have* to let it be an issue or not. It's either an issue for you or it's not.

But, it seems like this situation good enough to do whatever you can to try and "get over it". But, if you can't. You can't.

If the "Sugar Daddy" thing is what's bothering you the most, she does regret it. That means something.


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## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


You are entitled to make anything you want an issue before you marry someone after all it's your life. What you can't do is say you can handle it marry them and then bring it up. I don't think I could marry someone who sold their sexuality myself. I know that so I would not pursue this women. Here is the thing there are men who this would not be a problem. She deserves to be with one of them, just like I should pursue someone who feels the same way I do.

One thing that is a red flag is not being able to talk about it. The only way marriage works is being able to talk about hard stuff. Issues, misunderstandings, etc don't get better if you can't talk about them, they only fester.


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## Diana7

Only you know if you can be with a person who has had many many sexual partners and was offered money for sex. 
I couldn't, but that's me. 
After all, you had quite a few partners as well. I would be far more concerned if she had cheated on pervious partners. Did you ask her that?

However I just don't get why she has such an issue with you being married before. We both had long marriages before we met and its not something that bothers us. That could become an issue. Do you have children?


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## SunCMars

The lady, your sexy gal is really, really good at rationalizing.

Hopefully she has burned through her ration and now relies only on yours.

Sex has always been her go-to tool, without fail, even with you.

She certainly has won you over with her sexual proclivities.

Hopefully her clever, cleft, meat cleaver tool has dulled and lost it's luster and edge.

You need to set her down and tell her you love her for who she is, not for her sexual prowess.

Good sex is great, common sense and some measure of constraint is better.

I do not see this yet. from her.

Hold off a few years on marrying this one. 

Get engaged, if you like, not enmeshed or overly enthralled.

She has never experienced true monogamy. 

Hopefully that is a concept she can swallow. 

Uh, yeah.






[The Helmsman]- Lilith
It will not be her honey pot that will hold true your relationship, it will be the lid that she keeps on it.


----------



## uhtred

Some people can deal with a partner with a past, some cannot 

If you can't, you are doing her or yourself no favors by staying with her. 

Imagine that you will occasionally learn new and possibly disturbing things about her past Will you be able to still love her and not judge her for what happened? Only you can answer - but answer to yourself honestly.


----------



## Prodigal

Talk2Me said:


> People on here are attacking me saying I make her feel like crap etc. That is not the case at all. This is something I deal with on my own when I’m not with her. It comes up time to time and it makes me sad.


Not trying to "attack" here, but, no, you didn't start out saying her past made you sad, you said it made you "absolutely crazy."

Large disparity in those feelings, wouldn't you agree? You think you're being attacked, so you're back peddling on what you initially stated in post #1. 

So let's be honest here. You can feel I'm attacking you, or you can feel I'm just trying to interject a dose of honesty. The problem is yours at this point, not hers. That's fact, it's not meant to attack you. You don't like her past, it makes you uncomfortable.

Be true to yourself. If it's an issue, then fine. We have people on TAM who would only sleep with someone who never had more than five lovers in their past. We have people on TAM who don't give a good cahoot about their partner's past, unless there are STD's involved. (Which I agree with.)

While you are gushing about how fantastic and great the relationship is, you are admitting her past makes you "absolutely crazy." I'd suggest you drop the defensiveness for a minute and think about what exactly it is that is triggering you. Just something to consider …. SERIOUSLY.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> You are entitled to make anything you want an issue before you marry someone after all it's your life. What you can't do is say you can handle it marry them and then bring it up. I don't think I could marry someone who sold their sexuality myself. I know that so I would not pursue this women. Here is the thing there are men who this would not be a problem. She deserves to be with one of them, just like I should pursue someone who feels the same way I do.
> 
> One thing that is a red flag is not being able to talk about it. The only way marriage works is being able to talk about hard stuff. Issues, misunderstandings, etc don't get better if you can't talk about them, they only fester.


Where is the delete option?

Apologies.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## MattMatt

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


You might benefit from counselling. Also, are you upset or are you jealous, perhaps?


----------



## Talk2Me

She will answer any question openly and honestly whenever I ask no matter how hard it may be to hear. However, I choose not to know too many details as I want to focus on what we have now. 

She is a very special person with a heart of gold. She works with children with severe Autism that are barely functioning human. Beings. She has a love for these kids that even their parents lack. She is very trust worthy and has never cheated on a previous partner whenever in a committed relationship 

She’s also not the same person she was when she’s younger. The amount of partners bothers me for sure but I can cope with it mostly. The Sigar Daddy thing is certainly an area I often struggle with. When I’m with her none of that matters but when I’m alone it sometimes comes into my mind. 

She has issues with my previous relationship because she feels she can’t compete with the life I created with my ex. She is afraid that she will never be my first for anything significant. I can respect that and I’m very sensitive about it. I have a son from a previous relationship and she’s afraid when we have kids our kids won’t mean as much. Clearly, that’s not true but I can see her concern


----------



## Talk2Me

MattMatt said:


> Talk2Me said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> You might benefit from counselling. Also, are you upset or are you jealous, perhaps?
Click to expand...

I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for something that is so important to us. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


----------



## OnTheFly

Oft times in the Coping with Infidelity section the topic of ''gut instinct'' comes up. 

This is similar.

That feeling in the pit of your stomach is there for a reason.


----------



## ConanHub

Talk2Me said:


> I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for something that is so important to us. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


I get it. My wife had some similar experiences, getting used by men with authority over her, taken advantage of and even forced once.

She is so precious to me and I get angry and sad about her treatment.

I don't hold any of it against her however. She grew up pretty rough as well and that is what life handed her.

She is deeply ashamed of her past and was even scared she would lose me if I found out.

My wife cried, wept really, when she talked about it with me.


----------



## ConanHub

OnTheFly said:


> Oft times in the Coping with Infidelity section the topic of ''gut instinct'' comes up.
> 
> This is similar.
> 
> That feeling in the pit of your stomach is there for a reason.


I couldn't disagree more.

I think you just over cast into the wind and hooked a tree.


----------



## OnTheFly

ConanHub said:


> I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> I think you just over cast into the wind and hooked a tree.


Sorry, I'm not implying the woman is cheating, didn't mean to give that impression.

I'm saying our ''gut instinct'' is a valuable, sub conscious indicator of something broiling under the surface. 

The actual ''why'' he's got these feelings is the question to be addressed.

Again, not saying she's a cheater.......by his description, I'm pretty sure she's awesome.


----------



## MattMatt

Talk2Me said:


> I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for something that is so important to us. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


Then you most definitely need counselling. I think it would help you.


----------



## SunCMars

i realize I was the only cautious naysayer here.

I hope I am totally wrong.

It does make me happy that so many stand behind her and are willing to give her a chance.
..............................................................................

Some wounds knit quickly.
Some wounds heal slowly.
Some wounds never heal.

All wounds leave scars.

Deep scars limit movement and flexibility.

When tissues and issues become scarred over, they tear open easier the next time 'drowned'.

My fear, stated pointedly, is that she will revert at the first break down in trust.

I believe she has hair trigger doubts when it comes to men and their intentions. 
Life has a bad habit of pulling the pin on shaky marital grenades.

She is already showing doubt with OP relative to his marriage.
She has likely slept with married men, and she has heard it all.

Men lie, all they want is sex. They will sweet talk a woman, right up to the moment they leave you, alone, used and abused. 

Before meeting OP she had given up on men. Those lingering doubts will never leave her mind.

She appears fragile. 
Being fragile in this harsh life often guarantees future breakdowns.

Being an Astrologer tells me she has innate weaknesses and serious harmful susceptibilities at the hands of men, older men.
Violence may stalk her.

Don't be surprised if she develops some early onset health problems, maybe a serious accident. 

She has been marked. 
She knows it, she fears it.

I know it and I too fear this.

I wish you and her, the best of luck.

God Bless..





[The Helmsman]- SunCMars


----------



## TAMAT

T2M,

I do see an issue however.

Do you know who the OM in her life are, OM have a habit of reappearing at some later date. The fact that a connection already exists gives them an opening. It's almost a cliche that people cheat with ex'es.

You need to make sure the perfect relationship is real. The promiscuous side may be who she really is, I would worry less about the guy who was paying her than the 39 she consented to.


----------



## ConanHub

TAMAT said:


> T2M,
> 
> I do see an issue however.
> 
> Do you know who the OM in her life are, OM have a habit of reappearing at some later date. The fact that a connection already exists gives them an opening. It's almost a cliche that people cheat with ex'es.
> 
> You need to make sure the perfect relationship is real. The promiscuous side may be who she really is, I would worry less about the guy who was paying her than the 39 she consented to.


Especially the guy who raped her when she was 11. I'm sure she has really fond memories of that one.

A girl never forgets her first time right?


----------



## FieryHairedLady

@ConanHub

I am so sorry to hear of what you went through. WOW, just wow!


----------



## ConanHub

FieryHairedLady said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> I am so sorry to hear of what you went through. WOW, just wow!


No worries sweetheart. Life has sweet with the bitter.

I'm just getting a little miffed at some folks who are absolutely missing this one by a mile and characterizing this woman as something I know her not to be because I went through some junk as well.

I am truly blown away that they don't get what can happen to a child that is raped, how it teaches promiscuity and a disrespect of your own body.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

ConanHub said:


> No worries sweetheart. Life has sweet with the bitter.
> 
> I'm just getting a little miffed at some folks who are absolutely missing this one by a mile and characterizing this woman as something I know her not to be because I went through some junk as well.
> 
> I am truly blown away that they don't get what can happen to a child that is raped, how it teaches promiscuity and a disrespect of your own body.
> 
> I'm getting tired of condescending snobs that think that some people wouldn't be too bothered by a messed up past to consider marrying one of us, like they are soooo much better than us.
> 
> They will explain it away as a preference, that they aren't really better than us but they are condescending and looking down their noses at us all the same.


I like your post and I hear what you are saying. For what it is worth, I don't think Diana or Sokillme meant to be condescending or disrespectful though. 

I see how it can be a sensitive subject though.

From what I have seen people who are sexually abused sometimes become promiscuous, sometimes become very conservative.

Every female I know who was very promiscuous, was also very sexually abused. 

I was sexually abused multiple times as a child by various people. As an adult I was sexually abused by my 1st husband. 

There is more, but I try to be careful about what I share. 

I am conservative, 2 partners, married both. But could of easily gone in a different direction. I chose this path and am happy with it, but I try not to look down on others who have made different decisions then I have.

I am happy to hear you lived thru it and rose above it!!


----------



## red oak

Talk2Me said:


> She will answer any question openly and honestly whenever I ask no matter how hard it may be to hear. However, I choose not to know too many details as I want to focus on what we have now.
> 
> She is a very special person with a heart of gold. She works with children with severe Autism that are barely functioning human. Beings. She has a love for these kids that even their parents lack. She is very trust worthy and has never cheated on a previous partner whenever in a committed relationship
> 
> She’s also not the same person she was when she’s younger. The amount of partners bothers me for sure but I can cope with it mostly. The Sigar Daddy thing is certainly an area I often struggle with. When I’m with her none of that matters but when I’m alone it sometimes comes into my mind.
> 
> *She has issues with my previous relationship because she feels she can’t compete with the life I created with my ex. * She is afraid that she will never be my first for anything significant. I can respect that and I’m very sensitive about it. *I have a son from a previous relationship and she’s afraid when we have kids our kids won’t mean as much.* Clearly, that’s not true but I can see her concern


The bold I see as a precursor future issues unless dealt with now. 
Shows a latent sense of inferiority, insecurity, and non-deservedness which if you stay you can help with. 

As for your issue. It's just a number.

I don't know you woman but Some women who have had a rough upbringing have a high number because they are too trusting and want to believe the man truly loves and wants them. This one will be different.
****ing pickup artists play on emotions to lead them on only for sex, and it happens over and over. That's not all women. Does happen to a lot of them.

Either get over it if she is worth it or let her go so she can find someone who will.
As EleGirl said let it go or be kind and let her go.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> They have talked about it and she has been very open and honest with him.
> 
> She has been in therapy for her issues and sounds very grounded.
> 
> I do find your opinion along with Diane's to be personally offensive.
> 
> I understand it is yours to have and I have expressed empathy in the past for those with your view.
> 
> I'm sharing mine here.
> 
> I had far more partners than this woman by the time I was 20 and that number would have easily tripled in a few years if I hadn't met my wife.
> 
> I was sexually assaulted, abused and tortured as a child for years.
> 
> Being seriously harmed as a child doesn't really give you a good foundation for making healthy choices.
> 
> The woman she is today seems better balanced and in control than most.
> 
> I too had a very uphill battle to even figure out what normal means.
> 
> When your normal is a nightmare as a child, you have literally no idea what healthy is.
> 
> Everyone gets to have their choices but snobbing some or even secretly believing you are somehow better is extremely offensive to me.
> 
> It sounds condescending of you to say she deserves someone it won't bother.
> 
> She is probably a serious catch and will never be hurting for a potential mate so I'm sure anyone with a problem, and make no mistake...it is their problem, not hers, will not even get close to her.
> 
> I haven't minded the people on this site being put off by people like me who have high numbers and a less than stellar past.
> 
> I became a bad ass for a reason. It was called survival.
> 
> I also find it amusing how many keep remarking about not wanting a partner with high numbers as if we would actually be swayed by the likes of anyone with that attitude?
> 
> How about if some of those in our numbers list were when we were children and didn't have a voice?
> 
> This woman was seriously harmed as a child, had years of struggling through it and has developed into a balanced and wonderful person despite what was done to her.
> 
> I have been a faithful and hardworking husband who has been married once and never divorced.
> 
> I have made close to six figures most of my adult life, am considered attractive and a good lover by my wife.
> 
> She didn't settle or lose out getting to be my wife and I know quite a few who envy her.
> 
> I've been judged to my face by some of the most bland and unattractive people around who somehow thought they were better or cleaner than me because of my history.
> 
> My wife has as well and our lives have proven far more satisfying in every regard to theirs.
> 
> But at least they can hold to their belief that they are somehow a little cleaner or better than us.
> 
> I'm put off by the discussion about this woman that was raped as a little girl and came through it and the difficult years afterwards to become such a wonderful person.


I am sorry that you are offended by those who want a partner who has the same idea of the important things in marriage that they do. I am sorry that you were abused, I have three family members who were sexually abused as children so I know a lot about what effects it can have, but when it comes to marriage, we do need to be on the same page when it comes to the important things. Sex for me is an expression of love, preferably saved for marriage. I wouldn't want to be with a man who saw sex as something so casual, just as many here wouldn't want to be with someone who was a virgin or who had had very few sexual partners or who didn't like porn. I am not offended by you and your past one bit, and I have no idea why you should be offended by those who happen to think differently to you. 
I happen to be attracted to men who see sex in the same way I do. Is that a crime? My first husband of 25 years was more casual about sex,(although he had only had a few sexual partners at age 22 when we met), and this time I wasn't going there. This time my thoughts on sex and marriage were different and the man I wanted was different. 

Just as you and your wife were ok about numerous sexual partners, I wasn't. I knew that for me it was something vitally important.


----------



## MorningRoll

Comparing yourself to her other lovers will just drive you crazy. I had sugar daddies in grad school. Yeah, it feels absolutely horrible to be in that position. Pretending to be into a man for money? So you can pay your bills? Have you spoken to her about how she ended up I that position? I spent my whole life feeling like sex was the only thing I had to offer, because that was all that anyone ever seemed to want. It was meaningless to me. It was physical and nothing more. A means to an end.

My husband is the first man to ever not shame me for my past or feel jealous. He is also the first person I’ve ever been with who actually is ok with every part of me, good and bad. For the first time in my life, sex is not the thing that holds my relationship together. 

If you love the woman you are with, you love HER. You don’t pride yourself on bagging a trophy. You don’t brag about the great sex. You treasure the woman who opened her whole self up to you. If you care about more than a trophy, her number won’t bother you. Because it’s meaningless. Her body is easy to give. Her heart is not. Don’t confuse the two.


----------



## Diana7

FieryHairedLady said:


> I like your post and I hear what you are saying. For what it is worth, I don't think Diana or Sokillme meant to be condescending or disrespectful though.
> 
> I see how it can be a sensitive subject though.
> 
> From what I have seen people who are sexually abused sometimes become promiscuous, sometimes become very conservative.
> 
> Every female I know who was very promiscuous, was also very sexually abused.
> 
> I was sexually abused multiple times as a child by various people. As an adult I was sexually abused by my 1st husband.
> 
> There is more, but I try to be careful about what I share.
> 
> I am conservative, 2 partners, married both. But could of easily gone in a different direction. I chose this path and am happy with it, but I try not to look down on others who have made different decisions then I have.
> 
> I am happy to hear you lived thru it and rose above it!!


Yes as you say it does affect people differently. The family members I have who were sexually abused (sadly by their own father), acted in different ways. One did have more partners(but still only with people she was going out with and not that many really) and the other 2 had very few. One only had one before meeting his now wife and they didn't have sex before they married. 

You are also right in that my view on sex and marriage was in no way meant to be condescending to anyone. They are what I live by and what is important to me. I had a dad who saw sex as rather more causal and I wasn't going that way. 
My first husband as well had had more casual sex than I would have liked, and this time so many years later I knew what I wanted.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I happen to view sex the same way you do. I have been faithful to my wife and she to me.
> 
> I wasn't naturally casual about sex. A was naturally a very tender hearted child who became something else to survive.
> I was taught very hard lessons and had the tenderness literally beat, burned, tortured and screwed out of me before I even hit puberty.
> 
> The worst was what was happening to my mother and sisters and that is what pushed me into becoming what I did.
> 
> I only had what my life had taught me to go on. I originally believed in mating for life but no one showed me anything but garbage. Girls just wanted to have a couple beers and have me take off their clothes, women too. I learned that a touch that was chosen was far better than one forced.
> 
> I have held broken girls who just wanted someone to love them and I didn't take advantage.
> 
> Despite it all, I still held out hope that love was real until the girl I first fell in love with married a guy just to escape her home life.
> 
> I didn't believe in much after that until I met Mrs. C and God had some different plans then I did.
> 
> I could have had my pick of many virgins and women with very few numbers. I had women literally laying themselves out in two's and three's for the taking but I didn't love them, or believe in love, until I met my wife. I never took any girl who I thought could be hurt and I never touched a virgin because I didn't want to hurt anyone and I knew I was a monster that wasn't long for this Earth.
> My wife and I were not ok with our pasts and chose a better future.
> 
> You need to get a clue. I had about 60 partners by choice at the time I was 20. I could have had far more and my number was higher if I included the ones I didn't choose.
> 
> I have had one very committed and faithful marriage after someone showed me real love.
> 
> I didn't know it existed until I met her. It is hard to know something until you are shown.
> 
> I guarantee you have no idea what it is like to grow up like I did.
> 
> You could not be so blind if you had.
> 
> If my wife passes before me, I will probably never marry again and I won't be having sex unless I am married.
> 
> I didn't know Jesus until after being married to my wife. Now I know and am known by him.
> 
> My values are in line with His now.
> 
> You do not have better values than me and you never have. You are just as dirty and in need of a savior as me.
> 
> Before you knew better, you didn't know, just like me.


As I said I have three close family members who were sexually abused by another family member for many years, so I know well what effect abuse can have. I have seen and lived it for many many years. Police involvement and all. 

With Jesus your past is your past, just as mine is. I care nothing for what people think of the fact that I am divorced, nor do I care if some people say that they wouldn't marry someone who has been divorced. That is their choice and prerogative and doesn't affect me nor does it bother me. The fact that we both had to sadly leave our previous marriages changes nothing for us, he is the best husband ever. 

Different things are important to each of us. You and your wife weren't bothered about your sexual past, some people are and they have just as much right as you do to feel that way. Some people want to marry a virgin, that's their choice as well. Yes it excludes the majority of people for them, but so what? Its important to them. 
Yes you are forgiven as we all are if we are His. Its great to see SA survivors in a happy marriage/relationship. Two of the people I am referring to are as well.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> As I said I have three close family members who were sexually abused by another family member for many years, so I know well what effect abuse can have. I have seen and lived it for many many years. Police involvement and all.
> 
> With Jesus your past is your past, just as mine is. I care nothing for what people think of the fact that I am divorced, nor do I care if some people say that they wouldn't marry someone who has been divorced. That is their choice and prerogative and doesn't affect me nor does it bother me. The fact that we both had to sadly leave our previous marriages changes nothing for us, he is the best husband ever.
> 
> Different things are important to each of us. You and your wife weren't bothered about your sexual past, some people are and they have just as much right as you do to feel that way. Some people want to marry a virgin, that's their choice as well. Yes it excludes the majority of people for them, but so what? Its important to them.
> Yes you are forgiven as we all are if we are His. Its great to see SA survivors in a happy marriage/relationship. Two of the people I am referring to are as well.


Where you are absolutely missing it is saying you have different values than me or my wife. You don't.

We had things handed to us that you did not. I'm not saying you can choose to avoid a SA survivor who had little choice in life if you like but stop saying you have different values. You had a different life.

I guarantee you would have had many partners if you grew up in some of the environments I did. Many would have been forced and since you are a woman, you would have started choosing just to be someone's territory so you wouldn't be taken against your will or pushed into it.

You apparently had some nice choices in your life.

Many of us did not.

The forced sex, while very bad and damaging, wasn't even the worst.

You say you know about abuse because of relatives? You don't really.

I'm not even guessing at what your relatives went through but police never entered our lives because that would be a civil response to what was happening and nothing was civil about our lives.

My point, which you will probably continue to miss, is some people don't know any better until they do and once they learn, they change.

I did and the woman in this post did.

There is nothing to be ashamed of when you don't know something is wrong and then change your behavior when you do.

Jesus was born from a line that descended from an ex prostitute so I can say with some authority that God has different weights and measures than you do.

That should give you pause that your values differ from His.


----------



## Mr.Married

Talk2Me said:


> I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for something that is so important to us. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


Hey Buddy,

Listen...... everything in life and love is a chance and a risk. Sometimes you just have to open your heart and accept that someone is worth it. There is no 
sure bets. Take her for who she is today and who she now shows you that she is. Let the past go and you will both be better off for it. The girl had a rough start.
Some people just need someone to show them what love really looks like.

Best Luck,

Mr. Married


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> Where you are absolutely missing it is saying you have different values than me or my wife. You don't.
> 
> We had things handed to us that you did not. I'm not saying you can choose to avoid a SA survivor who had little choice in life if you like but stop saying you have different values. You had a different life.
> 
> I guarantee you would have had many partners if you grew up in some of the environments I did. Many would have been forced and since you are a woman, you would have started choosing just to be someone's territory so you wouldn't be taken against your will or pushed into it.
> 
> You apparently had some nice choices in your life.
> 
> Many of us did not.
> 
> The forced sex, while very bad and damaging, wasn't even the worst.
> 
> You say you know about abuse because of relatives? You don't really.
> 
> I'm not even guessing at what your relatives went through but police never entered our lives because that would be a civil response to what was happening and nothing was civil about our lives.
> 
> My point, which you will probably continue to miss, is some people don't know any better until they do and once they learn, they change.
> 
> I did and the woman in this post did.
> 
> There is nothing to be ashamed of when you don't know something is wrong and then change your behavior when you do.
> 
> Jesus was born from a line that descended from an ex prostitute so I can say with some authority that God has different weights and measures than you do.
> 
> That should give you pause that your values differ from His.


What you dont realise is that I have also been through terrible things ln life including my mum hanging herself, my grandmother killing herself by jumping out of a window, and my dad being a repeated cheat. Also a traumatic and very sudden ending to a 23 year marriage leaving me with very hurting children, little money and my life in tatters. Also more things that I am not going to talk about on a public forum because they involve other people who I care about. 

All you and I may have been though is irrelevant to the fact that we are all allowed to have certain things that we want in a marriage partner. For me one of them is that I wanted a man who had had very few sexual partners as I had. It was very important to me. Also a man who didn't watch porn. Was that gong to restrict who I met? Yes of course, very much so, but I didn't mind that. 
For others its that they don't want someone who is divorced. For others they want someone who is well off. For others they want someone who is a virgin, they want to be each others one and only. For others they want someone with a degree. All sorts of things.These things are their prerogative. 
They are allowed to have these criteria and disagree with you without being attacked.

Partly due to the actions of my dad and first husband, and other things, it was very important to me this time that I married a man who hadn't had had very few sexual partners. That was one of my criteria, a very important one to me.

We all have to accept and respect that others have different criteria than we do for all sorts of reasons. 

As for Jesus, that's irrelevant to my point. Jesus does actually have strict criteria when it comes to sex, its for marriage between a man and a woman only, but He also offers forgiveness for our past, as we both know.


----------



## Mr.Married

ConanHub said:


> Where you are absolutely missing it



It's ringing load and clear on my side .... 

I'm glad you found your wife ...... and sorry to hear of ya'll past.

I wonder if the OP will use the past of his girl for fight, flight, or bond.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> What you dont realise is that I have also been through terrible things ln life including my mum hanging herself, my grandmother killing herself by jumping out of a window, and my dad being a repeated cheat. Also a traumatic and very sudden ending to a 23 year marriage leaving me with very hurting children, little money and my life in tatters. Also more things that I am not going to talk about on a public forum because they involve other people who I care about.
> 
> All you and I may have been though is irrelevant to the fact that we are all allowed to have certain things that we want in a marriage partner. For me one of them is that I wanted a man who had had very few sexual partners as I had. It was very important to me. Also a man who didn't watch porn. Was that gong to restrict who I met? Yes of course, very much so, but I didn't mind that.
> For others its that they don't want someone who is divorced. For others they want someone who is well off. For others they want someone who is a virgin, they want to be each others one and only. For others they want someone with a degree. All sorts of things.These things are their prerogative.
> They are allowed to have these criteria and disagree with you without being attacked.
> 
> Partly due to the actions of my dad and first husband, and other things, it was very important to me this time that I married a man who hadn't had had very few sexual partners. That was one of my criteria, a very important one to me.
> 
> We all have to accept and respect that others have different criteria than we do for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> As for Jesus, that's irrelevant to my point. Jesus does actually have strict criteria when it comes to sex, its for marriage between a man and a woman only, but He also offers forgiveness for our past, as we both know.


Apologies.


----------



## Talk2Me

TAMAT said:


> T2M,
> 
> I do see an issue however.
> 
> Do you know who the OM in her life are, OM have a habit of reappearing at some later date. The fact that a connection already exists gives them an opening. It's almost a cliche that people cheat with ex'es.
> 
> You need to make sure the perfect relationship is real. The promiscuous side may be who she really is, I would worry less about the guy who was paying her than the 39 she consented to.


Yes, I know who they are. One contacted her a few months ago when a mutual friend died. She screenshotted the message and sent it to me immediately along with any and all corresponding messages. I’m honestly not at all worried even 1% about this and I’m confident she wouldn’t cheat. Someone said early about our gut feeling and this is something I don’t get that gut feeling in a negative way. I totally trust her


----------



## Talk2Me

Some have said here to either deal with it and get over it or let her go. I don’t want to let her go at all. I do love her and she makes me happier than I’ve ever been. We’ve built an amazing foundation while a lot was stacked against us. We are trying to build a future together and even booked a vacation for a year and a half away. (We love cruises and found one touring Europe on a brand new ship launching next year)

Some have asked why I posted this and honestly I guess I want to be able to just get over it and not think about it any more. Maybe it’s my defense mechanism trying to keep me from getting too attached. Who knows? My friends have said I was stupid for not dating any other women when I left my ex wife. My intention was to just date and have fun but when I met her we connected so quickly I didn’t want anyone else. 

Leaving a 16 year relationship was very difficult and I def don’t want to get hurt.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> You are going to remain clueless and that is another choice you are free to make but I think I'm going to start calling you out if it looks like you are looking down your nose again at someone with a different past than your own.
> 
> You totally ignored that, if you had grown up like me, your number would have been a lot higher. Forget that one?
> 
> You also totally missed the point I made regarding Jesus and I'm beginning to wonder if you actually know your Bible.
> 
> A prostitute was good enough for God to use to help the spies of Israel at Jericho.
> 
> She was then good enough for God to have her become the wife of one of the Israelites and the children that came by this ex prostitute became a pretty important part of history and good enough for God to be at Bethlehem at a fairly important event regarding His only begotten son.
> 
> So keep using your crooked measuring stick. I'm glad God uses a straighter one.


Diana is not looking down her nose at anyone. She isn't saying that anyone is bad or unworthy or undeserving of love or marriage or a good relationship etc etc

We all have the right to choose our partner's on our own criteria and our own measuring sticks. What I am taking away from her post is that often people are the most comfortable with and often want to be with people of similar backgrounds and upbringings and similar environments etc. 

That really is not pointing fingers even though it may seem like it is to someone that is of a different background and life-experience. It is not necessarily a judgement or deeming someone unworthy, it is just a preference. 

I think that a lot of that is what is at play here in this situation. The OP's prior life-experience and his upbringing and environment and his world-view and experience of sexuality is considerably different than what his GF experienced. That is causing both of them a good deal of angst and turmoil as neither has really experienced what the other has. 

That isn't the same as pointing fingers and saying that one is bad or unworthy or lesser than.


----------



## Talk2Me

MorningRoll said:


> Comparing yourself to her other lovers will just drive you crazy. I had sugar daddies in grad school. Yeah, it feels absolutely horrible to be in that position. Pretending to be into a man for money? So you can pay your bills? Have you spoken to her about how she ended up I that position? I spent my whole life feeling like sex was the only thing I had to offer, because that was all that anyone ever seemed to want. It was meaningless to me. It was physical and nothing more. A means to an end.
> 
> My husband is the first man to ever not shame me for my past or feel jealous. He is also the first person I’ve ever been with who actually is ok with every part of me, good and bad. For the first time in my life, sex is not the thing that holds my relationship together.
> 
> If you love the woman you are with, you love HER. You don’t pride yourself on bagging a trophy. You don’t brag about the great sex. You treasure the woman who opened her whole self up to you. If you care about more than a trophy, her number won’t bother you. Because it’s meaningless. Her body is easy to give. Her heart is not. Don’t confuse the two.


I don't compare myself to her past partners at all. I know things with us are way better as the connection we have is truly amazing. We know each others bodies so well that everything always falls perfectly into place.


----------



## Talk2Me

Mr.Married said:


> It's ringing load and clear on my side ....
> 
> I'm glad you found your wife ...... and sorry to hear of ya'll past.
> 
> I wonder if the OP will use the past of his girl for fight, flight, or bond.


We don't fight about it. I can't change it. When I first found out about the Sugar Daddy thing we got into a blowout fight. I knew she had gone on dates with a few guys for money but there was no sex. However, when I found out about the guy she did have sex with I was really really upset and we almost broke up over it. However, I was already in love with her and wanted to at least try to make it work. I was able to bury it for 6 months or so but every 4-6 weeks it comes back to light for whatever reason and I makes me upset.

I don't ever make her feel bad about it and I don't bring it up to her at all. I know she's ashamed she did it and struggles with it. Why would I just make her feel worse about it? We both want to be happy and we both want to be together. We both struggle with each others past unfortunately.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> However I just don't get why she has such an issue with you being married before. We both had long marriages before we met and its not something that bothers us. That could become an issue.


It makes perfect sense that she would be uncomfortable and somewhat intimidated by his previous marriage. 

Read my post in response to Conan above. 

People are often more comfortable with those who's background and history is somewhat similar to their own. 

You wouldn't feel uncomfortable or intimidated or insecure with someone who had had a long marriage because that is your own background and life-experience. 

To someone else who's relationship experience can only be measured in days, weeks, or months, that can appear quite daunting.


----------



## oldshirt

@Talk2Me let's get down to the brass tacks here - what is the bottom line issue or issues here?

Are you afraid she is going to start hooking again? Are you afraid she is going to cheat? Are you afraid she is going to want to have some kind of open relationship/swinging/polyamory so she can continue to have lots of sex partners? Are you afraid some rich guy will come along and offer up his yacht and planes and beachhouse in the Caribbean?

Is it a respect issue and a part of you simply sees her as some kind of dirty #%@*? 

What is it way down deep that is troubling the most and cause you the most angst?


----------



## Talk2Me

oldshirt said:


> It makes perfect sense that she would be uncomfortable and somewhat intimidated by his previous marriage.
> 
> Read my post in response to Conan above.
> 
> People are often more comfortable with those who's background and history is somewhat similar to their own.
> 
> You wouldn't feel uncomfortable or intimidated or insecure with someone who had had a long marriage because that is your own background and life-experience.
> 
> To someone else who's relationship experience can only be measured in days, weeks, or months, that can appear quite daunting.


EXACTLY.... She has never had a relationship that was serious like my previous marriage. She def. compares herself to my ex. The 2 of them couldn't be more opposite in nearly every way. She feels that our relationship and our kids will always be second to my first marriage and that it won't mean as much. I'm sensitive to this and never make her feel bad about thinking this way. 

She is afraid that because getting married to her won't be my first and having kids with her won't be my first it won't be as exciting to me. I explain to her that our relationship is completely different and my previous marriage lacked passion. It was "safe" and easy but mostly just comfortable but also boring at the same time. I can see it from her point that she's never had a relationship that was serious like my marriage and I think she thinks I compare her to my ex.


----------



## personofinterest

Here's the deal:

You know her past. If you can't handle that, it's understandable. But that's on YOU.

The answer if it's an issue is to BREAK UP, not keep going and make her feel damaged and less than.


----------



## MJJEAN

Talk2Me said:


> You're def. right. Every 4-6 weeks or so I start dwelling on it for whatever reason and it makes me upset. Then, I stop thinking about it and for whatever reason something gets me thinking about it again and it makes me sad. I've had several serious relationships but none like this one. She is always excited to see me and goes out of her way to make time for me. We plan things together and we get along great. We almost never argue and when we do we clear things up quickly.


Could your problem be that this is such a good relationship? Is it possible your brain is looking for and/or manufacturing drama because you are unused to a low-conflict relationship and need something to be wrong to feel comfortable because that was your experience in previous relationships?



Talk2Me said:


> When I’m with her none of that matters but when I’m alone it sometimes comes into my mind.


When you have these thoughts refuse to entertain them. Just because a thought pops in doesn't mean you have to invite it to tea. Let the thought materialize and then ruthlessly squash it by thinking about something else. Preferably something positive and productive. After a while, the intrusive thoughts will come less and less.




Talk2Me said:


> I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for *something that is so important to us*. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


 I've always enjoyed the company of men socially due to shared interests and I've always had a high libido. I began having sex at 15 and I met my DH at 24. I've had approximately 32 partners, including DH. Most of my partners were FWB and the rest were ONS or a couple time thing. It seems your wife and I have comparable histories. I had a lot of fun times and good sex, but it's not a patch on what I have with DH. Being in love, the emotional connection and intimacy, bring a whole new dimension to the physical act of sex that just isn't there otherwise. 

You have to understand that the sex she has with you and the sex she had with other men isn't the same. There is a very big difference between recreational sex and sex within an actual relationship involving love, intimacy, and commitment. Sex within a relationship is a bonding experience. Casual sex is not. You said it yourself. "Something so important to *us*". With you, there is an "us". With other men there were just two individuals enjoying each other's company for a brief time.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> You are going to remain clueless and that is another choice you are free to make but I think I'm going to start calling you out if it looks like you are looking down your nose again at someone with a different past than your own.
> 
> You totally ignored that, if you had grown up like me, your number would have been a lot higher. Forget that one?
> 
> You also totally missed the point I made regarding Jesus and I'm beginning to wonder if you actually know your Bible.
> 
> A prostitute was good enough for God to use to help the spies of Israel at Jericho.
> 
> She was then good enough for God to have her become the wife of one of the Israelites and the children that came by this ex prostitute became a pretty important part of history and good enough for God to be at Bethlehem at a fairly important event regarding His only begotten son.
> 
> So keep using your crooked measuring stick. I'm glad God uses a straighter one.


You forget that many CSA survivors stay away from sex and some I know(I know many survivors) didn't have sex at all till they married. Its not inevitable that you become promiscuous if you were abused as children. I know 2 brothers who were both regularly raped by their father. One had sex with many people the other remained a virgin till he married. Everyone is different. 

I have no issues at all with God using a prostitute, I just love it that God uses fallible people for important jobs and gives people fresh starts and new beginnings. 
That's totally irrelevant to the fact that we all have different criteria for what we want our husband and wife to be like. I think its crazy that some specify that they want their partner to have a degree. However that's their choice and their right and I wouldn't attack them for it. My life experiences have led me to want a man who wasn't into porn or casual sex. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Diana7

Talk2Me said:


> EXACTLY.... She has never had a relationship that was serious like my previous marriage. She def. compares herself to my ex. The 2 of them couldn't be more opposite in nearly every way. She feels that our relationship and our kids will always be second to my first marriage and that it won't mean as much. I'm sensitive to this and never make her feel bad about thinking this way.
> 
> She is afraid that because getting married to her won't be my first and having kids with her won't be my first it won't be as exciting to me. I explain to her that our relationship is completely different and my previous marriage lacked passion. It was "safe" and easy but mostly just comfortable but also boring at the same time. I can see it from her point that she's never had a relationship that was serious like my marriage and I think she thinks I compare her to my ex.


That's sad really isn't it. Neither of us spend time thinking about our past marriages. For us its way in the past. I hope that she can get beyond that. She has to accept though that your children are very important and that isn't going to change regardless of whether you have any together.


----------



## Talk2Me

MJJEAN said:


> Could your problem be that this is such a good relationship? Is it possible your brain is looking for and/or manufacturing drama because you are unused to a low-conflict relationship and need something to be wrong to feel comfortable because that was your experience in previous relationships?
> 
> 
> 
> When you have these thoughts refuse to entertain them. Just because a thought pops in doesn't mean you have to invite it to tea. Let the thought materialize and then ruthlessly squash it by thinking about something else. Preferably something positive and productive. After a while, the intrusive thoughts will come less and less.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've always enjoyed the company of men socially due to shared interests and I've always had a high libido. I began having sex at 15 and I met my DH at 24. I've had approximately 32 partners, including DH. Most of my partners were FWB and the rest were ONS or a couple time thing. It seems your wife and I have comparable histories. I had a lot of fun times and good sex, but it's not a patch on what I have with DH. Being in love, the emotional connection and intimacy, bring a whole new dimension to the physical act of sex that just isn't there otherwise.
> 
> You have to understand that the sex she has with you and the sex she had with other men isn't the same. There is a very big difference between recreational sex and sex within an actual relationship involving love, intimacy, and commitment. Sex within a relationship is a bonding experience. Casual sex is not. You said it yourself. "Something so important to *us*". With you, there is an "us". With other men there were just two individuals enjoying each other's company for a brief time.



You hit the nail on the head with the relationship being too good to be true analogy. Our relationship is solid and I've never been so happy in all my life as I am with her. She def. completes me and compliments me in ways I never thought I would experience. She makes me feel true love and makes me feel wanted and desired and not just sexually. We literally lie in bed with our faces touching and just holding each other nearly every single day and most mornings. I've never done that with previous partners. I used to detest cuddling and now I absolutely love it. Maybe I'm just so afraid I will lose this amazing feeling that I'm almost looking to find reasons it's not really happening.

If anyone was friends with me on Facebook that would prob be sick. haha I post pics of us very often and post about how happy she makes me feel and how much I love her. I do this because I truly am in love with her and truly think she is the most beautiful woman I've ever met. I'm proud to be with her even though I don't approve of some of her previous choices.


----------



## Talk2Me

Diana7 said:


> That's sad really isn't it. Neither of us spend time thinking about our past marriages. For us its way in the past. I hope that she can get beyond that. She has to accept though that your children are very important and that isn't going to change regardless of whether you have any together.


It is sad. I know she compares herself to my ex. They are completely different in every possible way. My ex was miserable and didn't want to do anything. My current GF is full of life and wants to experience new things. My ex wouldn't go on vacation. In 16 years we went on 4 vacations together. In the past 2 years we've gone on 2 cruises, booked a 3rd, 4 other vacations away, and countless weekend and nights away. We want to explore the world together and not get stuck in a rut. My ex and I went nearly 4 years without going out on a date because she didn't want to leave the house. My ex and I would have plain vanilla sex 3-4 times per month. My current g/f and I have sex every single day and we've done some crazy things together. haha

My current g/f is much younger than my ex as well and much more attractive. I can understand why she compares herself to my ex simply for the length of time I was with her and the fact that we have a child together. My g/f is AWESOME with my son and he adores her.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> They have talked about it and she has been very open and honest with him.
> 
> She has been in therapy for her issues and sounds very grounded.
> 
> I do find your opinion along with Diane's to be personally offensive.
> 
> I understand it is yours to have and I have expressed empathy in the past for those with your view.
> 
> I'm sharing mine here.
> 
> I had far more partners than this woman by the time I was 20 and that number would have easily tripled in a few years if I hadn't met my wife.
> 
> I was sexually assaulted, abused and tortured as a child for years.
> 
> Being seriously harmed as a child doesn't really give you a good foundation for making healthy choices.
> 
> The woman she is today seems better balanced and in control than most.
> 
> I too had a very uphill battle to even figure out what normal means.
> 
> When your normal is a nightmare as a child, you have literally no idea what healthy is.
> 
> Everyone gets to have their choices but snobbing some or even secretly believing you are somehow better is extremely offensive to me.
> 
> It sounds condescending of you to say she deserves someone it won't bother.
> 
> She is probably a serious catch and will never be hurting for a potential mate so I'm sure anyone with a problem, and make no mistake...it is their problem, not hers, will not even get close to her.
> 
> I haven't minded the people on this site being put off by people like me who have high numbers and a less than stellar past.
> 
> I became a bad ass for a reason. It was called survival.
> 
> I also find it amusing how many keep remarking about not wanting a partner with high numbers as if we would actually be swayed by the likes of anyone with that attitude?
> 
> How about if some of those in our numbers list were when we were children and didn't have a voice?
> 
> This woman was seriously harmed as a child, had years of struggling through it and has developed into a balanced and wonderful person despite what was done to her.
> 
> I have been a faithful and hardworking husband who has been married once and never divorced.
> 
> I have made close to six figures most of my adult life, am considered attractive and a good lover by my wife.
> 
> She didn't settle or lose out getting to be my wife and I know quite a few who envy her.
> 
> I've been judged to my face by some of the most bland and unattractive people around who somehow thought they were better or cleaner than me because of my history.
> 
> My wife has as well and our lives have proven far more satisfying in every regard to theirs.
> 
> But at least they can hold to their belief that they are somehow a little cleaner or better than us.
> 
> I'm put off by the discussion about this woman that was raped as a little girl and came through it and the difficult years afterwards to become such a wonderful person.


Wait so you would want her to be with someone who can't deal with it then? All I said was she deserves to be with someone who can deal with it. I never even judged it, I just said someone who used their sexuality to make money would be a hard stop for me. Probably would be for lots of people. Let's also not act like in today's day and age this isn't also seen as a kind of empowerment by some. So the good news is it wouldn't be for everyone. And yes she DESERVES to be with someone who it isn't so she can have a good and happy life. 

Besides that let's not pretend that there are things in peoples past that we should all be cautious about when pursuing a relationship. Hell divorce is also one of them, but it's not like we haven't seen this kind of stuff that OP is talking about can lead to trouble down the line. Remember this is his life as well we are talking about. I don't give advice from the point of view of best case scenario, I try to give it from the point of view or both the best and worst. 

This is the thing it's not me who is judging, it's you. Look in the real world I and everyone else is entitled to have deal breakers, and everyone has them YOU probably do too. It could be religion or politics or whatever it is, and yes sex is one of them. I'm sorry if for some reason that upsets you but you don't have the right to attack me or anyone else for their own choices just because they are different then yours. 

That doesn't have to be his though.

Even if this is the case that she was damaged as a child. That's a tragedy, but that makes my advice even more important. As we have seen from threads on this board that can make for some difficulties in the marriage going forward. It will be that much worse if the person who you are married to is judging you for those choices. Both of them would be better off if they don't pursue it for that very reason. Again she will need someone who is much more understanding then OP seems to be. 

I never said she wasn't a wonderful person, but lets be honest there are lots of people who can't deal with such an active sexual past for whatever the reason. People think about sex differently. When it comes to me, my sex count I can count on my hand. I deliberately turned down sex because I wanted it to be unique and special, so someone who I pursued and eventually married was the same way. This is the thing, I didn't say anything about that on this thread. In fact I purposely left that out, because I didn't think that was relevant to the discussion. 

But since you bring it up I will say being offended about the way I think about sex is no different then someone being offended by people who think sex should be explored with everyone they find themselves attracted to. It's stupid. People have a right to think and explore sex in anyway they want as long as they are not hurting anyone, just like anything else. We all have free will, and we all aren't going to agree. But sexual relationships will probably work best if the people in them are on the same page. 

Frankly my advice was more centered around OP's girlfriend. It would be unfair for him to pursue a relationship with her if he can't get over her past. While being honest about the fact that there are people who no matter how hard they try can't get over her past. If OP is one of those people then he should move on. You are lucky (or discerning in your choice) that your wife was understanding and it never created problems in your marriage, but if you wife felt like OP you probably won't have been so lucky. That is exactly why they should NOT be together if he is going to continue to feel this way.

I am certainly not judging you for what happened to you. I feel compassion for you and admire the way you have overcome it. I think if you follow my posts you know I am close to someone who was raped so I know all the aftermath involved and is still involved year later, which once again informs my post. From what I know from close observation sadly this does have a direct impact on all parts of the relationship but specifically sexually going forward. That doesn't mean you can't have a good one but it means you have to be mindful of it always. So for OP's girlfriend having someone who is judging/worrying her on her sex count, or comparing himself to them is only going to make it harder. 

The reason I said they should talk about it is because most of this stuff is probably about his own fears. Which means the only way to deal with it is to get them out in the open and see if they are justified. (Probably most aren't) Once he finds that out the fear will go away. If he just keeps them inside though they will just fester and that is also going to lead to problems.


----------



## Diana7

Talk2Me said:


> It is sad. I know she compares herself to my ex. They are completely different in every possible way. My ex was miserable and didn't want to do anything. My current GF is full of life and wants to experience new things. My ex wouldn't go on vacation. In 16 years we went on 4 vacations together. In the past 2 years we've gone on 2 cruises, booked a 3rd, 4 other vacations away, and countless weekend and nights away. We want to explore the world together and not get stuck in a rut. My ex and I went nearly 4 years without going out on a date because she didn't want to leave the house. My ex and I would have plain vanilla sex 3-4 times per month. My current g/f and I have sex every single day and we've done some crazy things together. haha
> 
> My current g/f is much younger than my ex as well and much more attractive. I can understand why she compares herself to my ex simply for the length of time I was with her and the fact that we have a child together. My g/f is AWESOME with my son and he adores her.


The fact that she knows you are divorced should say a lot. That the marriage wasn't a good one. I don't know why your marriage ended, but it would be much harder for her if you had had a very happy marriage and your wife had died. Its very hard I am sure to try and live up to a dead person, especially as many widows and widowers do tend to idolise their dead spouse and forget the bad bits and remember the good.


----------



## Zodiac

Talk2Me said:


> It is sad. I know she compares herself to my ex. They are completely different in every possible way. My ex was miserable and didn't want to do anything. My current GF is full of life and wants to experience new things. My ex wouldn't go on vacation. In 16 years we went on 4 vacations together. In the past 2 years we've gone on 2 cruises, booked a 3rd, 4 other vacations away, and countless weekend and nights away. We want to explore the world together and not get stuck in a rut. My ex and I went nearly 4 years without going out on a date because she didn't want to leave the house. My ex and I would have plain vanilla sex 3-4 times per month. My current g/f and I have sex every single day and we've done some crazy things together. haha
> 
> My current g/f is much younger than my ex as well and much more attractive. I can understand why she compares herself to my ex simply for the length of time I was with her and the fact that we have a child together. My g/f is AWESOME with my son and he adores her.


You both need to stop comparing. If what your EX WAS, so great she wouldn't be able to compare, and for you. If you can't accept her then leave, but do not stay to KISA in any sort of way. 

You have a vibrant, intense sexual relationship because of all the THINGS that bug you about her (accept it). There is a difference between a healthy women with positive men views banging your brains out, compared to unhealthy, negative views about men banging your brains out.

Appeasing, diminishes anyone and, whether verbal or physical will grow into a resentment. 

Seems the only thing that bugs you is the fact that when you rolled into her bedroom the first time and she had a swing, sex toys, lube and whips. Your rationale was.... *valley girl voice, while getting undressed* " Omg, you're so silly, you've never done this either? I'm excited! "


----------



## Talk2Me

oldshirt said:


> @Talk2Me let's get down to the brass tacks here - what is the bottom line issue or issues here?
> 
> Are you afraid she is going to start hooking again? Are you afraid she is going to cheat? Are you afraid she is going to want to have some kind of open relationship/swinging/polyamory so she can continue to have lots of sex partners? Are you afraid some rich guy will come along and offer up his yacht and planes and beachhouse in the Caribbean?
> 
> Is it a respect issue and a part of you simply sees her as some kind of dirty #%@*?
> 
> What is it way down deep that is troubling the most and cause you the most angst?


I'm not afraid she would ever do any of that honestly. I just have issues that she was able to make such a poor decision. I know the Sugar Daddy thing started out as just going on dates with guys with no kissing or anything. Just mostly going to work functions and bars and listening to guys talk about how their lives sucked. She said she went on 4 of those dates and then 2 with this other guy. She makes $90 an hour now so clearly she wouldn't go back to that. She is super intelligent and driven just had a really crappy childhood that allowed her to make poor decisions early on.


----------



## Andy1001

Talk2Me said:


> Some have said here to either deal with it and get over it or let her go. I don’t want to let her go at all. I do love her and she makes me happier than I’ve ever been. We’ve built an amazing foundation while a lot was stacked against us. We are trying to build a future together and even booked a vacation for a year and a half away. (We love cruises and found one touring Europe on a brand new ship launching next year)
> 
> Some have asked why I posted this and honestly I guess I want to be able to just get over it and not think about it any more. Maybe it’s my defense mechanism trying to keep me from getting too attached. Who knows? My friends have said I was stupid for not dating any other women when I left my ex wife. My intention was to just date and have fun but when I met her we connected so quickly I didn’t want anyone else.
> 
> Leaving a 16 year relationship was very difficult and I def don’t want to get hurt.


You are going to get a lot of different responses to your thread and it’s up to you alone who’s advice you’re going to take. 
There are some very genuine people on tam who are generous with their advice,Conan,Diana,Sokillme,Elegirl,Rubix etc who always give heartfelt advice even though it differs in a lot of cases so it appears contradictory. 
However you will also come across the naysayers who think themselves above any man or woman who wasn’t a certified virgin on their wedding night, and would never even date a man or woman with a high prior partner count. These are the people who will tell you they have models and actors trying to date them but they aren’t interested. 
These are just bitter men and women who probably live alone and couldn’t get a dog to bark at them much less a date with someone beautiful. 
If you want advice about having a relationship where one partner or both have a high number of exes then take the advice of people who have been there/done that and are still doing it. 
Taking advice from a celibate person about sex just doesn’t compute.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Talk2Me 

Why did you and your wife break up?

You are happy you have a gf who is young, attractive, likes having sex with you.

You need to take a good look around this forum. 

Women get older. Some women age well, some don't. Some stay a healthy weight, some don't. 

Some women still like having lots of sex decades later, some women close the doors and dole it out in small increments, like your ex wife.

There is no guarantee this new gf will be any different.

If you are having this much trouble with her past sex life now, but she is young and super attractive and sexing you up every day...

How are you going to feel about her when she is older, and maybe not sexing you up every day.

Will her past bother you more LATER down the road, if it's already bothering you now?

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but I feel that you need to look at the big picture here. 

Don't take this woman off the market if you can not love, adore and accept her 100%, now and in the future.


----------



## oldshirt

Talk2Me said:


> I'm not afraid she would ever do any of that honestly. I just have issues that she was able to make such a poor decision. I know the Sugar Daddy thing started out as just going on dates with guys with no kissing or anything. Just mostly going to work functions and bars and listening to guys talk about how their lives sucked. She said she went on 4 of those dates and then 2 with this other guy. She makes $90 an hour now so clearly she wouldn't go back to that. She is super intelligent and driven just had a really crappy childhood that allowed her to make poor decisions early on.


That means that this is a respect thing and that there is a part of you that feels she is a soiled dove or woman of ill repute and that her moral compass and value system etc are not congruent with yours etc

This is actual problem and something that will need to be taken seriously or will continue to undermine and toxify your relationship going forward. 

If you are to have a traditional, monogamous and loving and deep relationship and marriage, you have to be able to sincerely love, honor and cherish your wife and that needs to come from the heart and soul and not just be words out of your mouth. 

She deserves that if she is to take your name, be your wife and be the mother of your children. 

And then you will need to role model that devotion to her to your children so that they will see what love, honor and cherish is. 

The question here is, will you be able to do that with full faith and sincerity if way down deep a part of you sees here as a dirty wh0re??? 

Can you see and treat her as your special someone if a part of you sees her as a vessel that is used by other men for her own gain? 

That is not a question that we can answer. But what we can say is that this is something that will need to be addressed and fixed before you can move forward with this relationship. 

If she is not a prostitute and doesn't want to be a prostitute and you do not want to be married to someone that you see as a prostitute - then it is unfair to both of you to be in that situation. 

If you can't love, honor and cherish her above all others and see and treat her as the most special and endearing of all women - then you shouldn't marry her and place her in the role of wife and mother of your children. 

If you see her as a dirty #$%#*, then don't bring her into your marital home and marital bed. 

You have a couple options here. One is to try professional counseling to see if you can reconcile your feelings of disdain with your feelings of love and desire and see if you can overcome this to give her the love and respect that a wife and mother deserves. 

But if you can't, then the best course would probably be to humanely and compassionately end the relationship and seek a woman that you can sincerely respect and honor. 

In order for a marriage, home and family to work, the man must respect, honor and cherish his wife and hold her above all other women. 

And the wife not only deserves that respect and honor, but she must FEEL it. 

If it simply ain't there, a break down will occur.


----------



## oldshirt

....and this respect and honor thing goes both ways. 

Can a woman that has been sexually active since she was 11 and has had dozens and dozens of hook ups and flings and pick-ups from the bar and being paid cold, green cash for sex truly respect and admire a man that has primarily had steady, LTRs/marriage and that admits that much of it was for comfort and stability???

I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it with sincerity. 

Can a woman that is used to a life of men picking her up in bars and offering her cash prizes for sex, respect and admire a man that mows the lawn and picks weeds in the yard and helps with the dishes and laundry in exchange for a safe and comfortable home life and relationship? 

By respect and admire, I do not mean "LIKE." A woman may "like" those things, but way down deep in her inner, instinctual core, does she respect and admire him?

For a marriage to work, the wife must respect and admire her husband just as a husband must respect, honor and cherish his wife. 

So another question for @Talk2Me is can she respect and admire a man who sat in the comfy chair reading the daily newspaper and then mowed the lawn in a stable and comfortable marriage for 16 years while she had studs with tattoos and bulging biceps picking pursuing her in bars and businessmen picking up her car payments and paying her rent for her sexuality???

Again, that's a question we can not answer. And again this is something that may require some professional counseling/therapy on her behalf to explore. 

If she can respect and admire you, then you can work with that. 

But if there is a part of her that sees you as weak and as a sucker and less than a "real man" because you weren't out hussling chicks and scoring poon for decades, then there will be some serious problems down the road.


----------



## jlg07

Talk2Me said:


> EXACTLY.... She has never had a relationship that was serious like my previous marriage. She def. compares herself to my ex. The 2 of them couldn't be more opposite in nearly every way. She feels that our relationship and our kids will always be second to my first marriage and that it won't mean as much. I'm sensitive to this and never make her feel bad about thinking this way.
> 
> She is afraid that because getting married to her won't be my first and having kids with her won't be my first it won't be as exciting to me. I explain to her that our relationship is completely different and my previous marriage lacked passion. It was "safe" and easy but mostly just comfortable but also boring at the same time. I can see it from her point that she's never had a relationship that was serious like my marriage and I think she thinks I compare her to my ex.


Just tell her there is a REASON(s) she is your ex. You are looking forward to a future WITH HER and all that life brings, including children, or anything else. Your relationship with her, even IF the same thing like having a child IS COMPLETELY different -- you are different and she is different and your relationship is different, so you really HAVEN'T already "done that". It will be new because you BOTH are new together. You can tell her that people who have lots of kids don't just "Love the first one" the most because they were first....


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> People think about sex differently. When it comes to me, my sex count I can count on my hand. I deliberately turned down sex because I wanted it to be unique and special, so someone who I pursued and eventually married was the same way. This is the thing, I didn't say anything about that on this thread. In fact I purposely left that out, because I didn't think that was relevant to the discussion.


Apologies.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> Tell you what buddy. I just shared my opinion like many on your side of the fence have shared your opinion about people like me.
> 
> I have a history of having empathy on this site for those that wouldn't give me or those like me a second look.
> 
> Your words were offensive and I'm sharing why.
> 
> Thank you for expanding on your thoughts but I felt it fair to share mine.
> 
> I have mostly quietly accepted scorn and condescending attitudes towards me on this site, about my past because I have pretty thick skin and I'm not proud of my past anyway.
> 
> The lady in this post is outstanding and had some pretty evil stuff handed to her. She overcame it and I wonder if you or others were in similar circumstances, how you would have coped, being a child and not having tools to comprehend what happened to you?
> 
> I've shared and backing off.
> 
> Just wanted you to hear from the other side of the fence and I don't look favorably at people who look down on someone because of their childhood and their path out of it.
> 
> Since you expanded a bit, I understand what you are saying better.
> 
> Diana doesn't get it and still thinks she has different values than me because she wasn't raped since before kindergarten.
> 
> I think you get it even if she doesn't.
> 
> Don't feel attacked, just challenged.


I expanded on my post since you wrote it if you want to get a clearer picture. 

What happened to you was terrible. Again like I added I have experience with someone being raped (granted as an adult) but the damage is there still the same. 

But still, if someone ask me for advice it would be unfair for me not to mention that that is going to have an impact on the relationship with someone that happened to. 

In yours (as you seem to indicate) and maybe OP's girlfriends case (as well as a notorious thread on this board) the person who this happened to ended up pursuing sex in a way that obviously was a kind of coping mechanism or because they didn't know any better. If that thread is to be believed, in that case that had dire implications in the posters life. Whatever his spouses motives, the poster will still now be damaged for life. This is the reality of what we are talking about. It would be unfair not to at least discuss this fact. 

As far as the sex count issue I think it's just as unfair for you to not conceptualize my thinking in the context of the motives of the type of people we are talking about. What I mean by that is there is quite a difference from someone who has a high sex count because they were abused as a child and doesn't have a healthy relationship with sex, and someone who thinks about sex like they do a coffee date. Let's not act like there aren't people who feel this way. I generally give advice from the idea that it is the latter because this is the prevailing attitude of the culture we live in.

You even say yourself, that you feel like I do. OK but you know and I know others don't. Hell, there are people though they are small in number, have great open marriages, as they describe it (I wonder). Now I would argue (probably not here if I am smart) that that may still not be the healthiest way to think about sex for other reasons (kids, pregnancy, STD, ect) but the point is, it's just dishonest to act like people don't think very differently about sex.

So in that sense it's unfair to say that giving advice with this in mind is judging others. First of all we all judge others but secondly there is nothing wrong with giving advice on using judgment. Which is to say you should not get offended when someone who thinks like me gives general advice about being on the same page when it comes to sex count. Personally I would give exactly the same advice to someone who does have a very causal attitude about sex if they were thinking to pursue a relationship with someone like me.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> ....and this respect and honor thing goes both ways.
> 
> Can a woman that has been sexually active since she was 11 and has had dozens and dozens of hook ups and flings and pick-ups from the bar and being paid cold, green cash for sex truly respect and admire a man that has primarily had steady, LTRs/marriage and that admits that much of it was for comfort and stability???
> 
> I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it with sincerity.
> 
> Can a woman that is used to a life of men picking her up in bars and offering her cash prizes for sex, respect and admire a man that mows the lawn and picks weeds in the yard and helps with the dishes and laundry in exchange for a safe and comfortable home life and relationship?
> 
> By respect and admire, I do not mean "LIKE." A woman may "like" those things, but way down deep in her inner, instinctual core, does she respect and admire him?
> 
> For a marriage to work, the wife must respect and admire her husband just as a husband must respect, honor and cherish his wife.
> 
> So another question for @Talk2Me is can she respect and admire a man who sat in the comfy chair reading the daily newspaper and then mowed the lawn in a stable and comfortable marriage for 16 years while she had studs with tattoos and bulging biceps picking pursuing her in bars and businessmen picking up her car payments and paying her rent for her sexuality???
> 
> Again, that's a question we can not answer. And again this is something that may require some professional counseling/therapy on her behalf to explore.
> 
> If she can respect and admire you, then you can work with that.
> 
> But if there is a part of her that sees you as weak and as a sucker and less than a "real man" because you weren't out hussling chicks and scoring poon for decades, then there will be some serious problems down the road.


Yeah she can because she didn't have choices when younger and she grew past it and chose the life she has now.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> I expanded on my post since you wrote it if you want to get a clearer picture.
> 
> What happened to you was terrible. Again like I added I have experience with someone being raped (granted as an adult) but the damage is there still the same.
> 
> But still, if someone ask me for advice it would be unfair for me not to mention that that is going to have an impact on the relationship with someone that happened to.
> 
> In yours (as you seem to indicate) and maybe OP's girlfriends case (as well as a notorious thread on this board) the person who this happened to ended up pursuing sex in a way that obviously was a kind of coping mechanism. If that thread is to be believed, in that case that had dire implications in the posters life. Whatever his spouses motives, the poster will still now be damaged for life. This is the reality of what we are talking about. It would be unfair not to at least discuss this fact.
> 
> As far as the sex count issue I think it's just as unfair for you to not conceptualize my thinking in the context of the motives of the type of people we are talking about. What I mean by that is there is quite a difference from someone who has a high sex count because they were abused as a child and don't have a healthy relationship with sex, and someone who thinks about sex like they do a coffee date. Let's not act like there aren't people who feel this way. I generally give advice from the idea that it is the latter because this is the prevailing attitude of the culture we live in.
> 
> You even say yourself, that you feel like I do. OK but you know and I know others don't. Hell, there are people though they are small in number, have great open marriages, as they describe it (I wonder). Now I would argue (probably not here if I am smart) that that may still not be the healthiest way to think about sex for other reasons (kids, pregnancy, STD, ect) but the point is, it's just dishonest to act like people don't think very differently about sex.
> 
> So in that sense it's unfair to say that giving advice with this in mind is judging others. First of all we all judge others but secondly there is nothing wrong with giving advice on using judgment. Which is to say you should not get offended when someone who thinks like me gives general advice about being on the same page when it comes to sex count. Personally I would give exactly the same advice to someone who does have a very causal attitude about sex if they were thinking to pursue a relationship with someone like me.


I have always sided with guys and gals from your POV on issues like this except on this one.

I think you already know the defining difference in this thread from people who think about sex like a coffee date.

The woman here obviously doesn't fit that category.


----------



## pbj2016

Pay attention to what she does more than what she says. From what you have written everything points to a woman with clear boundaries. 

Don’t sabotage this relationship by dwelling on a past life. You have a moral objection to her sugar daddy past. It crosses some boundary in your mind. Only you can decide if that is a deal breaker. 

TBH I would spend more energy on making sure your girl knows that your past won’t be an indication of the future. She’s worried and if you want to keep her you should concentrate on making sure her trust in you is safe.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> ....and this respect and honor thing goes both ways.
> 
> Can a woman that has been sexually active since she was 11 and has had dozens and dozens of hook ups and flings and pick-ups from the bar and being paid cold, green cash for sex truly respect and admire a man that has primarily had steady, LTRs/marriage and that admits that much of it was for comfort and stability???
> 
> I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it with sincerity.


This above may get some people riled up and defensive but let me use myself as an example. 

I do not mean to stereotype here but there are some archetypes that will help convey my point. 

I belong to a 99% motorcycle club. Most of both the male and female members look like the stereotypical "bikers." Leather-clad, long hair, tattoos, drink'n, smoke'n, hard live'n, Harley ride'n salt of the earth people. 

…..and then there is me. Clean shaven, baby faced, clean cut, all my own white teeth riding a Triumph in a full faced helmet and bright colored armored riding gear. And I don't drink, don't smoke and have no reason to fight or brawl because I like every body and get along fine with everyone and see no reason. 

Yes, I stick out like a sore thumb and am the oddball of the group but I strongly believe in and am dedicated to the cause of the club and everyone recognizes and respects this. 

But here is where I am going with this - The chicks in this club would not give me the time of day if I was to ever try to bed one or marry one. I am simply not on their radar as I am not a drink'n, smoke'n, brawl'n sexually aggressive dude that has picked up countless women in bars and parties across the land.

I look like a squeaky clean, church choir boy that is respectful to women and have been married for almost 25 years. They don't see me as a "real man." Since I am so different than what they are used to and what they've grown up with, I'm not on their radar and they are not comfortable and at ease around me. 

they're nice to me and I think most sincerely like me to one degree or another, but they wouldn't respect, admire or desire me as potential partner or mate. 

If Talk2me's GF sees him as the outlier and not what she actually digs in a man, but is just being driven towards the stable and comfortable lifestyle, this could become a big issue down the road. 

Will he back here in half dozen years and a couple kids later complaining they haven't had sex in 2 years and she is out with her party friends coming home at 4 in the morning several times a week?


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> Yeah she can because she didn't have choices when younger and she grew past it and chose the life she has now.


Yes she "can." Absolutely she can. 

The question that Talk2me will need the answer to is has she.


----------



## ConanHub

Talk2Me said:


> You hit the nail on the head with the relationship being too good to be true analogy. Our relationship is solid and I've never been so happy in all my life as I am with her. She def. completes me and compliments me in ways I never thought I would experience. She makes me feel true love and makes me feel wanted and desired and not just sexually. We literally lie in bed with our faces touching and just holding each other nearly every single day and most mornings. I've never done that with previous partners. I used to detest cuddling and now I absolutely love it. Maybe I'm just so afraid I will lose this amazing feeling that I'm almost looking to find reasons it's not really happening.
> 
> If anyone was friends with me on Facebook that would prob be sick. haha I post pics of us very often and post about how happy she makes me feel and how much I love her. I do this because I truly am in love with her and truly think she is the most beautiful woman I've ever met. I'm proud to be with her even though I don't approve of some of her previous choices.


It sounds like you hit the lottery.

I'm with Matt and others who suggest couple's counseling with the aim of strengthening your relationship.

You both sound like you're pretty solid and everyone has a couple things to work through to be successful.

Your feelings and hers are important and it might be a mistake to not work through them for a smoother ride.

She needs to accept that she is definitely worthy and you need to be able to put your feelings about her past in the correct box in your mind.

Have you considered couple's counseling?


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> Yes she "can." Absolutely she can.
> 
> The question that Talk2me will need the answer to is has she.


She already did because, as you can read, she moved past that life and wasn't even close to the person she use to be.

The only reason OP knows is because she has been up front and honest with him.

And apologies.


----------



## RubyRing

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> *She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old)* She's slept with approx 40 guys which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


The sex at 11 years old sounds more like rape than consentual sex to me. How old was her first partner, roughly her age, or older ? Even if she "consented" to sex with someone considerably older, it is still considered statutory rape, as an 11 year old is unable to make such a decision. And if I am right, if she was molested, raped, or taken advantage of sexually at the age of 11, it would explain alot about her sexual behavior afterwards, including the sugar daddy. I have not read through this entire thread, so I apologise if the sex starting at age 11 has already been brought up. Anyway, if her first experience was rape (either outright rape, or statutory rape), I would see her as a victim, not someone who should be judged.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> She already did because, as you can read, she moved past that life and wasn't even close to the person she use to be.
> 
> The only reason OP knows is because she has been up front and honest with him.
> 
> I could quote the post where this information is contained so you could read it as apparently you totally missed it the first go around and started commenting as if this was another thread as usual.
> 
> It would help if you would actually start reading the threads you start offering advice on.


I'm not sure why you've had such a beef against me recently but it's not helping. 

How do we know she isn't close to the person she used to be? - because you've declared her as such????

He hasn't stated their exact ages but I am guessing them to be approx. upper 30s or such and if YOU had read the posts you would see that he stated she has not had much for LT serious relationships during the course of her life.

So for you to declare a 30/40some year old woman who has never had a serious LTR as some how a born again woman, is a bit of a stretch. 

Any chick can help troubled children and then lay a guy like tile for awhile and have him thinking she's the resurrected Madonna. That doesn't mean it's true. 

He has some legitimate concerns here that need to be addressed. No one is pointing fingers saying she is a bad person or that needs to ditch the ***** because she screwed some dudes and did some dumb crap in her youth. 

People are rightfully pointing out that they come from different backgrounds and have had different perspectives and experiences with sexuality and relationships. That is a legitimate and rightful concern that does affect relationships whether people like that fact or not. 

Look I get it, you don't like my posting style, a lot of people don't. But I am not breaking any of the rules and when I do get off on my own little philosophical tangents I try to wrap it back around to apply it to the topic at hand so you are just going to have to deal with that.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure why you've had such a beef against me recently but it's not helping.
> 
> How do we know she isn't close to the person she used to be? - because you've declared her as such????
> 
> He hasn't stated their exact ages but I am guessing them to be approx. upper 30s or such and if YOU had read the posts you would see that he stated she has not had much for LT serious relationships during the course of her life.
> 
> So for you to declare a 30/40some year old woman who has never had a serious LTR as some how a born again woman, is a bit of a stretch.
> 
> Any chick can help troubled children and then lay a guy like tile for awhile and have him thinking she's the resurrected Madonna. That doesn't mean it's true.
> 
> He has some legitimate concerns here that need to be addressed. No one is pointing fingers saying she is a bad person or that needs to ditch the ***** because she screwed some dudes and did some dumb crap in her youth.
> 
> People are rightfully pointing out that they come from different backgrounds and have had different perspectives and experiences with sexuality and relationships. That is a legitimate and rightful concern that does affect relationships whether people like that fact or not.
> 
> Look I get it, you don't like my posting style, a lot of people don't. But I am not breaking any of the rules and when I do get off on my own little philosophical tangents I try to wrap it back around to apply it to the topic at hand so you are just going to have to deal with that.


We only know what OP posts.
I have a beef with anyone who doesn't read threads and then posts. You often post about things that flat out aren't occuring and I know what the OP has posted.

She is also much younger than OP .

And apologies.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> We only know what OP posts.
> I have a beef with anyone who doesn't read threads and then posts. You often post about things that flat out aren't occuring and I know what the OP has posted.
> 
> She is also much younger than OP so part of your post here is also irrelevant because you still aren't reading this thread.
> 
> How about you actually read this thread and then comment about what is actually posted so I can actually respond without having to correct you about what you are inaccurately responding to.


One of the main reasons for posting to an open forum is to get a variety of opinions from different people viewing the issue from different perspectives and different points of view and different areas of expertise. 

Otherwise if there was only one perspective and one answer we could just ask that guy that lives in the cardboard box under the bridge and be done with it. 

In other words different people are going to pick up on different aspects and different nuances and offer different perspectives in their feedback. 

Some may be helpful. Others not. 

We all pick up on certain things that others missed and we have all missed a few points or missed a post here and there. For that I assume I am guilty as well. 

Per your suggestion I will try to be a bit more diligent. But I doubt if it will make much difference to you and I doubt if you and I will see eye to eye on many things so, again, you're just going to have to live with it and if you continue to badger me about it I will consider it harassment and bullying and will report it as such.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> I have always sided with guys and gals from your POV on issues like this except on this one.
> 
> I think you already know the defining difference in this thread from people who think about sex like a coffee date.
> 
> The woman here obviously doesn't fit that category.


 @ConanHub please go back and read my post that you find offensive but read it in the context of the post I am responding to. This was OP's first post on the board which at the time had a small number of posts. Frankly I think you are retroactively judging me from the entire posting history. I am not even sure that he had mentioned the sexual abuse at that time I wrote mine, I certainly didn't read about it yet. What his first post (the one I responded to) seems to indicate is that she became a sugar daddy to pay for college, didn't like it and is now ashamed. Maybe I should have read all of the whole thread first but at the time the count was small and usually when there is a small count I post right away. I will admit that if that was your criticism it has some merit. 

In that context I ask yo to tell me what are you offended about in my response? I never said anything negative or positive about her selling her sexuality only that that would be a deal breaker to me, and OP had a right to his own deal breakers. I purposely didn't even bring up the sex count which is a much more nuanced discussion. At the time of your offense this was my only post. Which makes me think you are judging this post in the context of other things I have written on the board. 

I stand by my post though, I would not pursue a relationship with someone who thought it was appropriate to use their sexuality as a way to pay for college. Even if later on she was ashamed (again in the context of the post I read I don't think there was any indication of timeline). This is because I would know right off the bat that the way we feel about sex is very very different. It would be a waste of time for both of us. (By the way if you notice I was only talking about myself, I never said OP had to think that way, just that he can have any deal breakers he wants, in my mind he could decide not to be with her because she voted for Trump if he wants. This is what dating is about and is better for everyone involved.) 

Again from only this post OP seems to indicate that she has had a very sexually open lifestyle, there was no discussion of abuse or that her motives were anything other then having fun. Now if there was NO sugar daddy thing (Sorry I see this different) I would have had a very different take because OP seems to have thought and acted exactly he same way as she did. Then to me he is being ridiculous and I grow tired of guys judging women on a lifestyle that they pursed just as hearty after the fact. I wonder what did they think of the women they were having sex with at the time? Did these women know that they were only in it to **** them? (By the way, I purposely say it that way for affect, as that is the only thing these guys wanted it seems) It's obvious from their feelings that they were never in it to marry them right? So my next question would be how was this pursued, was the impression at the beginning that there would never be the possibility for more? I suspect that lots of times it was not and the whole interaction was never given in good faith. In my mind that's wrong. This is something some sexual active women might want to think about because it seems like lots of men think this way. That attitude that some women are good enough to have sex with but not good enough to marry is totally sexist. Besides being hypocritical but I wonder if many of these young women (at the time) understand that the guys they may be sleeping with are secretly, hypocritically judging them. I'm sure they do after the fact. 

This is different then two people who know going in that they are just hooking up for fun. There are people who are perfectly fine with this, but those guys don't then retroactively judge women by their sex count. Because of that it's possible for the relationship to start out as fun and end up in something more. That's great. Here is the thing with that, I was always self aware enough to know that lifestyle was not for me. Sex in my mind was just to intimate an act for me to do with someone who I didn't know well and feel a loving connection with. Why should I be judged on this or for wanting someone who felt the same way. But I sure as hell am judged and attacked all the time for having this attitude. I was also ridiculed, in popular culture for it. I had a lot of very short relationships with women who once they learned thought was crazy. Hell there is a whole philosophy that judges men on there sex-count. In red pill for example, an "Alpha-man" is directly related to a man's sex-count. Good thing I don't give a **** what anyone thinks about me, only what I think about myself. 

Even that is not as bad though as these guys that seem to want to have an active lifestyle but then marry a virgin. Again ridiculous. I think most of that is about insecurity, they just don't like to compete with memories. You should know by my posting history that I would rail against that ****. We're men, ****ing compete! If you want to be your partner's best, strive to be your partner's best. That's on you. Unless she is very shallow, which in that case pox on you for staying with her, you have every opportunity to make sex for her great. Despite popular opinion sexual compatibility is not static in any way. Which is also a big issue with this. Somehow people think sex can't get better. How stupid. I mean I have read posts here where they talk about how great everything was in the beginnings of a relationship but the first time they had sex, it wasn't, so they broke up. What, what, WHAT! ****ing work on it at least a little bit. I guess I come from it differently because I knew since I was going to have a small count I was going to have to be committed to work on it. That's not to say that you don't at least have to have some sexual attraction or that some people are just duds. 

I don't really think this is a T/J because if OP reads this hopefully it may help clarify his feelings on all this.

Unfortunately I think my thinking and advice on this manor is too nuanced for lots of people. Besides that, shame on all of you for linking my option to someone else's whose opinion is very different then mind, just because shallowly the outcome might be the same. This is entirely unfair. I haven't even read the responses from that point yet but I am sure that will be fun. Anyway basically my point has always been you are much better off if people in relationship have the same general attitude about sex and sex count be it large or small, that's it. I mean there is someone on here I forget who, who has said they would never be interested in someone with a low sex count like mine. I think that take is exactly the same as mine and legitimate, I am certainly not offended by it. If I was single I should hope they wouldn't waste my time. 

This was the context of my advice to OP. I don't know what you are offended about, really?


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> One of the main reasons for posting to an open forum is to get a variety of opinions from different people viewing the issue from different perspectives and different points of view and different areas of expertise.
> 
> Otherwise if there was only one perspective and one answer we could just ask that guy that lives in the cardboard box under the bridge and be done with it.
> 
> In other words different people are going to pick up on different aspects and different nuances and offer different perspectives in their feedback.
> 
> Some may be helpful. Others not.
> 
> We all pick up on certain things that others missed and we have all missed a few points or missed a post here and there. For that I assume I am guilty as well.
> 
> Per your suggestion I will try to be a bit more diligent. But I doubt if it will make much difference to you and I doubt if you and I will see eye to eye on many things so, again, you're just going to have to live with it and if you continue toc badger me about it I will consider it harassment and bullying and will report it as such.


----------



## ConanHub

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) .


 @sokillme

This was the very first post.


----------



## personofinterest

personofinterest said:


> Here's the deal:
> 
> You know her past. If you can't handle that, it's understandable. But that's on YOU.
> 
> The answer if it's an issue is to BREAK UP, not keep going and make her feel damaged and less than.


It really is this simple.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> @sokillme
> 
> This was the very first post.


Which was the one I responded to, the one I read, and my only post. I'm not sure your point here? Her age? Is your point I should have assumed from her age that she was abused?

Again in that context what are you offended about?


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> Which was the one I responded to, and my only post. I'm not sure your point here? Her age? Is your point I should have assumed from her age that she was abused?


In what world do 11 year old girls give informed consent?

If you really don't get it then I will just drop it.

Follow up found she was raped by a 16 year old.


----------



## personofinterest

sokillme said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> @sokillme
> 
> This was the very first post.
> 
> 
> 
> Which was the one I responded to, and my only post. I'm not sure your point here? Her age? Is your point I should have assumed from her age that she was abused?
Click to expand...

I think most normal people with average intelligence would assume abuse, since an ELEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL cannot developmentally or legally consent. You'd have to be purposely BLIND to conclude otherwise.


----------



## sokillme

@Talk2Me honestly either deal with it or let her find someone who can't.

If you are legitimately worried that she has some issues with sex that in the end could lead to her acting out in ways that may affect you then I think that is legitimate and you should talk about it. Then it's your life you will have to decide if she has fought through all of her demons. That is not a judgement of her as a person but it just is the case that people who are damaged can do damage if they don't work to fix the damage. 

This was not at all what you initially posted however, in your initial post you seem to imply that she had a very free relationship with sex and was only changing that opinion because it was important to you. That in my mine is doomed to fail, for both of you. In her case she will probably grow to resent you, and in yours you are going to know that it's really not the truth. 

Having good chemistry is not a good enough reason to marry someone, you must also have the same attitudes. If your intention is to marry this women or you are giving her that intention then I think you should do each other a favor and stop wasting each other's time. 

Now if your issue is just the numbers then I think you are being entirely hypocritical. Do you mean to tell me if you didn't have the opportunity to be with 40 women you wouldn't have taken it? Where is the ****ing cut off? 10? 20? That's just some straight up bull****. Then you are just jealous. Fact is if you are living an sexually active lifestyle most women you date are usually going to have a higher count then men because women are much more discriminating in who they sleep with even when they are active. And most serious people understand that biologically men are more motivated to have sex. 

This is the lifestyle you chose it's a little late to get all pious now. Dude you are not going to marry a virgin. 

So what is the issue here? Well what it is for sure is fear. 

I think one fear is legitimate, that being her past history with sexual abuse. Though it's very tragic I think it has to be said that this could and I say could be a danger to you. But I say could because is she had effective treatment it doesn't have to be. Maybe you can ask to go talk to her counselor that helped her and see what they say. Maybe you can read about the dangers and ask her about it. Talk about your fears. See if that will be enough to comfort you, but if not then you are not doing her any favors by pursuing her. There are men who will be able to deal with this and she DESERVES one of them.

Now if one of your fears is the ghost of her past then that is on you. You are being weak here. Your a man, ****ing compete! If you are worried about not being her best then ****ing make it your mission to be her best. Learn everything there is to know about her body and master it. Learn everything there is to know about her emotions and also mater that. Put the two together and blow her mind. Make love to her like she thinks you are Prince or something. Quit crying about it and get to work. I can't think of anything more fun. 

Whatever you do stop being passive, get to work, figure out if you can live with it. But if you can't for her sake let her find someone who can.


----------



## sokillme

personofinterest said:


> I think most normal people with average intelligence would assume abuse, since an ELEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL cannot developmentally or legally consent. You'd have to be purposely BLIND to conclude otherwise.


Really, even if it's with another 11 year old? Then why are they trying and in some cases succeeding in giving sexual education in schools at the age of kindergarten? I dare you to tell the people who are pushing for this that having sex at 11 is always sexual abuse? I personally would think it's very unhealthy but if it's between two kids of about the same age I wouldn't call it abuse. I guess you would be the type who says throw the male child in jail because he is an abuser huh? What if he is younger? 

I hate to brake it to you but there are people who had sex at a very young age with someone of the same age and think that it was nothing but a good experience. Again I personally don't agree with that but I wouldn't start an argument over it either. Which is why I didn't even bring it up. 

The truth is there is a huge amount of intellectual thought and intellectual discussion on this subject at the present time, there is no general agreement. Consent child to adult and age of consent of the two participants are a big part of that discussion. Since he didn't call it rape I assumed it was between two people of the same age. Maybe problematic but not abuse in my mind. I mean if they are the same age tell me who is abusing who? Are the both abusing each other? 

Sorry most normal people with average intelligence would know it's much more nuanced then how you put it.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> In what world do 11 year old girls give informed consent?


So if it is with an 11 year old boy is she the only one being abused? Is she abusing the boy or is it just because he is a boy that it's abuse? What if it is with two girls?

Is it healthy, not in my mind but I didn't even waste my time with that one. I am not going to call it abuse like rape for instance until I know all the facts, which is why I didn't even touch it. 

I can just imagine if I told him to be careful because that is a big red flag even if it's due to no fault of her own. You probably would still be offended.

You are just sensitive when it comes to this subject.


----------



## ConanHub

.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## sokillme

Here is my post



> You are entitled to make anything you want an issue before you marry someone after all it's your life. What you can't do is say you can handle it marry them and then bring it up. I don't think I could marry someone who sold their sexuality myself. I know that so I would not pursue this women. Here is the thing there are men who this would not be a problem. She deserves to be with one of them, just like I should pursue someone who feels the same way I do.
> 
> One thing that is a red flag is not being able to talk about it. The only way marriage works is being able to talk about hard stuff. Issues, misunderstandings, etc don't get better if you can't talk about them, they only fester.


Here is what you wrote



> Everyone gets to have their choices but snobbing some or even secretly believing you are somehow better is extremely offensive to me.
> 
> It sounds condescending of you to say she deserves someone it won't bother.


When did I ****ing say any of that. Quit putting your words in my mouth! What I said was - to paraphrase (for some people none of this is a problem, she DESERVES someone who thinks that way.) 

What the hell is condescending about that. I'm ****ing on HER side on this!

Are you really saying it would be a good idea for her to be with someone who it does bother? Why? Just on principle? Really? That's your advice?

I think your emotions on this subject are clouding your response. 



> I think you already know the defining difference in this thread from people who think about sex like a coffee date.


How would I know that? There was no talk about abuse at the point I wrote my post, except that she was 11. I very clearly above gave you my reason's why I don't just assume abuse even at 11. Again it's not a good thing but it might not be abuse. From the first post he wrote she was entirely cool with that. Which is her right. 

Again quit judging me from a post history I didn't even read!

Besides that before I get banned I think I deserve a chance to defend myself when I am openly criticized in a thread for something I never said in the first place.

Let's just drop it before we both get banned.


----------



## Vinnydee

It has been my experience over 67 years that a person’s past is a reflection of their character and most times a good indicator of their future. However people can change so it really depends on what they did in the past. Just having sex a lot is subjective. Who is to say what is a lot? I had sex with 30 girls before I married my wife. My wife was a virgin. My past was well known in my town. Sure enough my wife and I ended up having sex with other couples and shared a girlfriend for most of our 47 years of marriage. One women was never enough for me, and I was lucky in that my wife turned out to be bisexual so she liked girls too which proved to be a perfect match for me. 

My ex fiancé cheated on me, cheated on her other boyfriends and then cheated on her husband. Her habit of cheating would be troublesome to anyone dating her. My good friend dated a married women. She was cheating on her husband and yet that did not bother my friend. Like many other guys who date married women he felt that he was such a good catch that she was justified in cheating. Sure enough she cheated on him. In fact, she played with my penis through my pants once night when we were visiting them. I stopped her and knew that they were not going to last. Same with my wife’s friend whose boyfriend had a history of cheating. She thought he would stop after they married and instead they divorced a year later due to his cheating.

Having a lot of sex can be a problem, but people can change. I had a girlfriend who had to have sex with every guy she met. She needed validation that she was desirable and she thought she got that by getting the guys to have her sexually. What she never learned until too late what that guys find any sure thing desirable. It almost wrecked her life as she started to get into gang bangs and even dated my friends without my knowledge. She eventually realized that no amount of sex or guys was going to fill the void she had. She left the State to go and live with her mom on their family farm. Before she left she asked me to impregnate her due to my genes. I told her no and found it funny that she found me to have the best qualities out of all the men she was with and yet she cheated on me all the time.

I look at it like this, when there is a burglary what does the police do? They check on all the people who have been arrested for burglary because humans tend to go back to what they are used to. So they round up everyone in the area or who fit the M.O. of the current burglaries. When any Law Enforcement Agency investigates something they first look for people or companies who have a history of doing whatever it is that they are investigating. 

Looking back at all my old friends, there really are not surprises there. They all are basically the same people they were in their teens. The cheaters cheated on their wives, the guys like me who are poly hand multiple girlfriends or became swingers, etc.. We my company hired anyone we looked at their past records to try to determine their future with us. So a person’s past does matter. but keep in mind that there is a chance that when they mature they will change. Adults rarely change but minors do as they gain more life experience.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> I won't get banned and I sincerely hope you don't either.
> 
> I expanded on my thoughts later in the thread as you, to more accurately convey what I wanted to say.
> 
> I did quote one of your posts and explained exactly my offense.
> 
> Your first post wasn't fleshed out and I apologise for using it to express my take about this issue. That probably wasn't giving you a fair shake.
> 
> Follow up posts became even more interesting and I do really want you to respond to what I was actually offended by.


I really can't figure it out. I think you are implying I am saying something I am not. Or you are assuming I have one opinion here because I have a different opinion in another post, which is a very different situation that involves the poster actively being abused by a victim of sexual abuse from someone else. Which makes that a very different situation then this one. 

I ask that you please list the words I posted that offended you, not your assumptions of what I meant. 

And we are about to get banned. See you in a week.


----------



## ConanHub

Apologies.


----------



## Cynthia

Talk2Me said:


> I’m not jealous about it but it makes me upset that someone could pay her for something that is so important to us. I guess I value our lovemaking and see how close it brings us and to think someone could just use her makes me angry


Perhaps your anger is misplaced. Again, I think you would benefit from therapy. 


Talk2Me said:


> Some have asked why I posted this and honestly I guess I want to be able to just get over it and not think about it any more. Maybe it’s my defense mechanism trying to keep me from getting too attached. Who knows? My friends have said I was stupid for not dating any other women when I left my ex wife. My intention was to just date and have fun but when I met her we connected so quickly I didn’t want anyone else.
> 
> Leaving a 16 year relationship was very difficult and I def don’t want to get hurt.


You came here for help in getting over it. This place may be of great help to you, but I think you need to get deeper with a therapist who is trained to help people overcome these types of issues. Why don't you want to go to therapy? Therapy can be - very therapeutic! Seriously. I like going to therapy when I have a good therapist and highly recommend it.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> I am sorry if I caused it.
> 
> Read my post #95 on this thread if you get a chance.
> 
> That is where I was addressing my more thought out offense.





> It is offensive that you think you have different views than me when in fact you only had a different life that gave you the opportunity to make informed decisions about your sexuality and who you did it with.


I don't even think having a different view then me is wrong at least as is my right to judge. I think everyone has the right to have their own views and lifestyle as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Now that is debatable but there is enough nuance that I would be very slow to judge especially individually. I mean we can have a very long discussion about whether the sexual revolution has been good for society as a whole. Truth is I don't care if people are sexually active with high counts or virgins when they get married. We all have free will. It's not my place to judge. 

Which explains why your post is so confusing to me. I think you are implying that I somehow have judged you because I thought we have different views, when the truth is even if you did have a different view or action I don't believe that any less valid. So there is no judgement either way. People like to have lots of sex I actually complete understand that. It's just not for me and I reserve the right to only pursue relationships that feel the same way. I don't think people should be judged either way. We live in a society were we have decided (and I believe rightly so) that freedom in this area is more important then religious belief but choosing to have a low sex count may have nothing to do with religion. I agree with this and would want it no other way. In the same way I absolutely want the freedom to have the religious belief or any other one. It would hypocritical of me to believe one and discount the other. I want freedom precisely because I want to have the right to have my own beliefs. For others that may be sex, we don't think we get to pick and choose when it comes to freedom as long as you are not hurting others. 

What I do think though is it's a much better match when people feel the same way on that if they are going to have a sexual relationship. 

Look I am sorry that you never got a chance to really have what you wanted, but seems like you did alright anyway. Your wife's love of you was healing for you, that to me was a much better result and more valuable then even if you were to have your "perfect" scenario anyway. To me your story is a good example of when they say God makes something that is tragic or evil (I am talking about what was done to you here, not YOU) and turned it to good. How wonderful for you to marry someone whose love was able to heal you. You are blessed. Look even if you don't believe in God then let's just say you are lucky. Go kiss your wife. 

Now Mods, I am going to direct this post back to the issue at hand, which is a reason why this is not a T/J. 

In the same way OP might be able to have a wonderful relationship as well with this women. But he has to be the kind of man who can do that. So far there is no indication that he will be able to. If that is the case then they are just a bad match and no amount of chemistry is going to overcome that. 

So it's better they stop wasting time if in the end someone is going to be hurt.


----------



## Deejo

ConanHub said:


> I truly cannot believe how out of touch with this situation some are on this thread.



Honestly CH, I've sat here shaking my head while reading 90% of this thread.

More than a little bit of projection, misinterpretation and misrepresentation going on.

So, OP here are your takeaways; a few folks pointed them out.

Retroactive Jealousy ... seriously read up on it. It is utterly toxic for you, and your relationship.

I also have to confess here, and I'll preface by saying this is my opinion, and my experience. I'm divorced, and remarried. Joined the site almost 11 years ago in May. Wow ... had to reread that.

I just don't recommend putting air-quotes around "special" when factoring sex past, or present with a partner.

If you are in a committed relationship, yes it is a bond, and yes it is exclusive between you and your partner. And if you love that person it is nurturing, gratifying, and extraordinary.

But thinking about, or ruminating over your partners sexual past, whatever choices they may have made, or experiences they may have had, or if they had nurturing, bonding, and extraordinary before YOU, simply can't go anywhere good.

She is partnered with you, and by your account has been nothing but loving and dedicated over the past 2 years. People pretty much show you who they are within that time frame. Hope things work out for the 2 of you.


----------



## ConanHub

Sorry for blowing up folks. Sorry to you as well OP.

I believe you have a real find with your lady and it looks like you think so as well.

It looks like with a little couple's counseling and/or personal therapy on your end, you could have a marriage most folks dream about.


----------



## oldshirt

Talk2Me said:


> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it?


So the original questions were "Should GF's past be an issue"? 

The answer to that is - it is an issue if it is an issue and since it is causing angst in the OP and a certain degree of turmoil in the relationship - then yes, it is an issue. 

Whether it "should" be or not is really quite immaterial. If it is causing problems then there is a problem. 

The further questions are if he should keep trying to get over it and how he should deal with it.

My response to that is whatever tactics he was using to try to get over it are obviously not working and that if he wishes the relationship to move forward and consider marriage and having a family with her then he should seek some sort of professional counseling to work through his feelings to determine if he will be able to provide her the proper degree of respect and honor that a wife and mother deserves from her husband. 

And if he can not reconcile his feelings with her past and it is something that is going to haunt and taint their relationship, then it would probably be best to humanly and compassionately let this one go. 

Whether 11 year olds can give consent or not is probably best for it's own thread.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> So the original questions were "Should GF's past be an issue"?
> 
> The answer to that is - it is an issue if it is an issue and since it is causing angst in the OP and a certain degree of turmoil in the relationship - then yes, it is an issue.
> 
> Whether it "should" be or not is really quite immaterial. If it is causing problems then there is a problem.
> 
> The further questions are if he should keep trying to get over it and how he should deal with it.
> 
> My response to that is whatever tactics he was using to try to get over it are obviously not working and that if he wishes the relationship to move forward and consider marriage and having a family with her then he should seek some sort of professional counseling to work through his feelings to determine if he will be able to provide her the proper degree of respect and honor that a wife and mother deserves from her husband.
> 
> And if he can not reconcile his feelings with her past and it is something that is going to haunt and taint their relationship, then it would probably be best to humanly and compassionately let this one go.
> 
> Whether 11 year olds can give consent or not is probably best for it's own thread.


I thought I said this in my original post.


----------



## EleGirl

I hope that the arguing thread jack is over. If you two start it up again, you both will be enjoying a few days off TAM.

{Speaking as a moderator.}


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> I hope that the arguing thread jack is over. If you two start it up again, you both will be enjoying a few days off TAM.
> 
> {Speaking as a moderator.}


Noted and adjusted. Thank you.


----------



## sokillme

Yep.


----------



## oldshirt

Vinnydee said:


> Adults rarely change but minors do as they gain more life experience.


I agree with this and I do agree with some of the posters that have said people can change and improve their lives and go on to have healthy and happy relationships blah blah blah. 

What I see is at issue here is that when asked what concerns him the most, the OP did not say he was afraid of her cheating or wanting to continue to multiple sex partners etc, but rather his concerns was that she had made poor decisions (at least according to his definition of poor......maybe they were the right decisions for her at the time) and that she did not value sexuality in the same manner as he did (as stated by him saying he was upset that she sold her sexuality to the sugar daddy ****my verbiage, not his****) 

This to me indicates a basic respect issue that IMHO is a more serious issue than being afraid she may cheat or find another sugar daddy or something. 

It's easy for people to pat some on the shoulder and say, there there there, she was a wild one in her past but she's grown up now and no more likely to cheat than anyone else. 

But it's a whole other story if part of you thinks your potential spouse and potential parent of your children is a #$*@&. That is something that can toxify the whole relationship. 

It's easy for others to say not to judge and that it's not nice to judge. But quess what - we all judge. All day every day. And if there is something in someone's pass that we find repugnant and that offends our sensibilities, it's not something that other people can say not to do. It's simply a part of our being. 

Some people on this thread are going to identify with the GF and tell him to pull up his big boy pants and grow a pair and step up to the plate. 

Others are going to identify with him and say DUDE SERIOUSLY! 

Neither are right or wrong per se as this is about his own perspective and gestalt. 

Can he get passed it? sure maybe. but I think it will take some soul searching under professional guidance and some therapy to help him develop more healthy and constructive ways to direct his concern when it does hit him. 

But maybe not. And I think this is something that if can't get passed it or is just too repulsed by her prior actions, it is probably best to let this one go. 

So the TL/DR version is yes, she can change...….and so can he......but maybe he can't.


----------



## Bluesclues

pbj2016 said:


> TBH I would spend more energy on making sure your girl knows that your past won’t be an indication of the future. She’s worried and if you want to keep her you should concentrate on making sure her trust in you is safe.


This. Seriously your baggage seems to weigh much heavier than hers in my book. Child out of wedlock - check. Failed marriage - check. Being in a marriage for many years doesn’t mean you are a good partner. Commiting yourself to the wrong person does not make your “values” better than someone who tests more waters than you did. Outsider looking in - you made a few major bad judgement calls that are life altering and I am not sure how you can weigh her’s without looking in the mirror. Do you want her to view you negatively because you knocked someone up and didn’t marry them or chose a wife that ended up being not a good fit for you? I am sure you have regrets about life choices and have grown from them. 

My husband was a serial committer. I am wife #3. In the past when he was drinking he would throw my number of partners in my face, saying he could count on one hand the women he had been with. I had to correct him that he needed two hands if he counted the girls in college plus his wives and mistresses. 

It is good that you are thinking about this stuff now. Being **** shamed by someone you have been good and loyal and honest with is awful. Especially when they have their own baggage.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> So the TL/DR version is yes, she can change...….and so can he......but maybe he can't.


Let me put it this way - it's a lot easier for someone to change their actions and behaviors that it is their core beliefs, world views, mores, values and attitudes.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

oldshirt said:


> Let me put it this way - it's a lot easier for someone to change their actions and behaviors that it is their core beliefs, world views, mores, values and attitudes.


Only in the short run. To truly change your actions consistently over the long run you must change from within.


----------



## Talk2Me

RubyRing said:


> The sex at 11 years old sounds more like rape than consentual sex to me. How old was her first partner, roughly her age, or older ? Even if she "consented" to sex with someone considerably older, it is still considered statutory rape, as an 11 year old is unable to make such a decision. And if I am right, if she was molested, raped, or taken advantage of sexually at the age of 11, it would explain alot about her sexual behavior afterwards, including the sugar daddy. I have not read through this entire thread, so I apologise if the sex starting at age 11 has already been brought up. Anyway, if her first experience was rape (either outright rape, or statutory rape), I would see her as a victim, not someone who should be judged.


The guy was 16 years old. loser


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> The guy was 16 years old. loser


Yeah, that age level, now that is abuse. What would a 16 year old want with an 11 year old? Gross. 

Let me ask you this. 

What is her feelings about her sexual past? Have you talked about that?

What are your feelings about the 10? or so girls you slept with?


----------



## lifeistooshort

I'll throw this out there......

The whole money thing isn't unusual. To me it's really no different then women having sex with men who buy them stuff or take them out and spend money. 

In the absence of feelings it's all transactional, so if one is hung up on the exchange of cash this is a different way to look at it.

Friends with benefits is transactional like this and it happens all the time.

If one has a fundamental issue with no feelings attached sex I get that.....it could make you wonder if you're really different. I often felt this way with my ex.....just one in a long line.

But that's a much bigger thing then handing over money.

This transactional phase is one many people go through and come out of. It sounds like OP's gf is one of these people.

I suspect you're getting too wrapped up in the money. Try to step back and consider the broader issues.


----------



## Talk2Me

Bluesclues said:


> This. Seriously your baggage seems to weigh much heavier than hers in my book. Child out of wedlock - check. Failed marriage - check. Being in a marriage for many years doesn’t mean you are a good partner. Commiting yourself to the wrong person does not make your “values” better than someone who tests more waters than you did. Outsider looking in - you made a few major bad judgement calls that are life altering and I am not sure how you can weigh her’s without looking in the mirror. Do you want her to view you negatively because you knocked someone up and didn’t marry them or chose a wife that ended up being not a good fit for you? I am sure you have regrets about life choices and have grown from them.
> 
> My husband was a serial committer. I am wife #3. In the past when he was drinking he would throw my number of partners in my face, saying he could count on one hand the women he had been with. I had to correct him that he needed two hands if he counted the girls in college plus his wives and mistresses.
> 
> It is good that you are thinking about this stuff now. Being **** shamed by someone you have been good and loyal and honest with is awful. Especially when they have their own baggage.



I did not have a child out of wedlock. We were together for 6 years before we had our son. It was 100% planned and no bad choices there. My marriage was normal esp at first. My ex stopped wanting to do anything. I tried to fix it but she was too close minded. I went to Marriage counseling ALONE because she wouldn't go. I read books and books and encouraged her to talk about things but she wouldn't. I tried hard to fix things and then I had to leave. My counsellor gave me advice to try and when I tried her response was "what did you get that from your crazy doctor?" and at this point I realized I couldn't fix the relationship.

yes, I have baggage because I'm divorced and I have a child but my life path was pretty normal. Had my ex wife put in the effort to try to fix our relationship I may or may not still be married to her but I couldn't wait any longer to find out.


----------



## sokillme

lifeistooshort said:


> I'll throw this out there......
> 
> The whole money thing isn't unusual. To me it's really no different then women having sex with men who buy them stuff or take them out and spend money.
> 
> In the absence of feelings it's all transactional, so if one is hung up on the exchange of cash this is a different way to look at it.
> 
> Friends with benefits is transactional like this and it happens all the time.
> 
> If one has a fundamental issue with no feelings attached sex I get that.....it could make you wonder if you're really different. I often felt this way with my ex.....just one in a long line.
> 
> But that's a much bigger thing then handing over money.
> 
> This transactional phase is one many people go through and come out of. It sounds like OP's gf is one of these people.
> 
> I suspect you're getting too wrapped up in the money. Try to step back and consider the broader issues.


I am not big on transaction anything in marriage. Marriage should be a partnership with shared goals.


----------



## Talk2Me

sokillme said:


> Yeah, that age level, now that is abuse. What would a 16 year old want with an 11 year old? Gross.
> 
> Let me ask you this.
> 
> What is her feelings about her sexual past? Have you talked about that?
> 
> What are your feelings about the 10? or so girls you slept with?


She said she was promiscuous when she was younger mostly. She said she isn't really sure why she was but she said she can't change it. She said she isn't proud of it but accepts it for what it is. Her mom was only 15 when she had her and her dad has been in and out of prison his entire life for drug abuse. She lived with her aunt and grandmother whom she ended up taking care of both while she was 13-17 and her mother moved out while she took care of them. They both ended up getting severely sick and dying. Her mothers best friend slept with well over 1000 men and is a swinger so sex was something casual in her family.

My feelings for the other women I've slept with? I don't know as I don't really think about it ever at all. I sometime think about my ex wife as we had a long relationship but sexually she doesn't even remotely compare to my current g/f. The other girls were OK but again nothing compared to my current g/f. 

It would be impossible to find someone else like my current g/f. I realize some of the greatness we have is a result of some of the things I hate about her past.


----------



## oldshirt

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Only in the short run. To truly change your actions consistently over the long run you must change from within.


So in a way, that further highlights the base issue here.

If he does find her past morally repugnant and offends his sensabilities, that would mean that those thoughts and feelings would be manifested by word and/or deed at times. 

(I'm not saying that that I totally agree a person's actions will always ultimately follow their feelings, but I am simply applying your statement to the situation and can see where that logic could cause problems going forward)


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

oldshirt said:


> So in a way, that further highlights the base issue here.
> 
> If he does find her past morally repugnant and offends his sensabilities, that would mean that those thoughts and feelings would be manifested by word and/or deed at times.
> 
> (I'm not saying that that I totally agree a person's actions will always ultimately follow their feelings, but I am simply applying your statement to the situation and can see where that logic could cause problems going forward)


Indeed. That's the crux many have pointed to; whether not he is capable of evolving.

Based on his account of her, it would appear she has.


----------



## Bluesclues

Talk2Me said:


> Bluesclues said:
> 
> 
> 
> This. Seriously your baggage seems to weigh much heavier than hers in my book. Child out of wedlock - check. Failed marriage - check. Being in a marriage for many years doesn’t mean you are a good partner. Commiting yourself to the wrong person does not make your “values” better than someone who tests more waters than you did. Outsider looking in - you made a few major bad judgement calls that are life altering and I am not sure how you can weigh her’s without looking in the mirror. Do you want her to view you negatively because you knocked someone up and didn’t marry them or chose a wife that ended up being not a good fit for you? I am sure you have regrets about life choices and have grown from them.
> 
> My husband was a serial committer. I am wife #3. In the past when he was drinking he would throw my number of partners in my face, saying he could count on one hand the women he had been with. I had to correct him that he needed two hands if he counted the girls in college plus his wives and mistresses.
> 
> It is good that you are thinking about this stuff now. Being **** shamed by someone you have been good and loyal and honest with is awful. Especially when they have their own baggage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not have a child out of wedlock. We were together for 6 years before we had our son. It was 100% planned and no bad choices there. My marriage was normal esp at first. My ex stopped wanting to do anything. I tried to fix it but she was too close minded. I went to Marriage counseling ALONE because she wouldn't go. I read books and books and encouraged her to talk about things but she wouldn't. I tried hard to fix things and then I had to leave. My counsellor gave me advice to try and when I tried her response was "what did you get that from your crazy doctor?" and at this point I realized I couldn't fix the relationship.
> 
> yes, I have marriage because I'm divorced and I have a child but my life path was pretty normal. Had my ex wife put in the effort to try to fix our relationship I may or may not still be married to her but I couldn't wait any longer to find out.
Click to expand...

You wrote you had a child from a “previous relationship”. Sorry, that usually means a child from a relationship outside of marriage, not a child with a spouse. I apologize for interpreting it incorrectly. That is a very odd way to refer to children from a marriage. It implies a baby mamma. Just FYI.


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> She said she was promiscuous when she was younger mostly. She said she isn't really sure why she was but she said she can't change it. She said she isn't proud of it but accepts it for what it is. Her mom was only 15 when she had her and her dad has been in and out of prison his entire life for drug abuse. She lived with her aunt and grandmother whom she ended up taking care of both while she was 13-17 and her mother moved out while she took care of them. They both ended up getting severely sick and dying. Her mothers best friend slept with well over 1000 men and is a swinger so sex was something casual in her family.
> 
> My feelings for the other women I've slept with? I don't know as I don't really think about it ever at all. I sometime think about my ex wife as we had a long relationship but sexually she doesn't even remotely compare to my current g/f. The other girls were OK but again nothing compared to my current g/f.
> 
> It would be impossible to find someone else like my current g/f. I realize some of the greatness we have is a result of some of the things I hate about her past.


Look if you are going to judge her by her past then you should not continue with her, like I said there are lots of men who would be fine with it. 

Do you think she, like you, doesn't think about who she was with at all? If not why not, you do right?

Are you worried that she may have some damage from being abused that could manifest itself in the relationship? Have you talked about that?


----------



## lifeistooshort

sokillme said:


> I am not big on transaction anything in marriage. Marriage should be a partnership with shared goals.


I agree.....marriage should not be transactional, though it sometimes is.

I can't imagine how such a marriage could be happy, but maybe because that's not what I want either.

I was just pointing out that transactional relationships extend well beyond the exchange of cash and happen all the time.

So if he's wrapped up in the money exchange but is ok with other transactional relationships he should think about that.

If he's not ok with one who had such experiences he's going to severely limit his options...but only he can decide that.

I agree with others that he should decide if he can live with it and if so he needs to drop it. If he can't then move on, just know that this is a criteria to apply going forward.


----------



## Talk2Me

Bluesclues said:


> You wrote you had a child from a “previous relationship”. Sorry, that usually means a child from a relationship outside of marriage, not a child with a spouse. I apologize for interpreting it incorrectly. That is a very odd way to refer to children from a marriage. It implies a baby mamma. Just FYI.


HAHA Ok, I follow now. I wasn't sure where you were getting your information from. lmao. Sorry, I wasn't more clear.


----------



## syhoybenden

Talk2Me said:


> She said she was promiscuous when she was younger mostly. She said she isn't really sure why she was but she said she can't change it. She said she isn't proud of it but accepts it for what it is. Her mom was only 15 when she had her and her dad has been in and out of prison his entire life for drug abuse. She lived with her aunt and grandmother whom she ended up taking care of both while she was 13-17 and her mother moved out while she took care of them. They both ended up getting severely sick and dying. Her mothers best friend slept with well over 1000 men and is a swinger so sex was something casual in her family.


Wow.

Family of Origin issues much?

Okay, now, it may well be that she is one of those individuals who is able to mature and overcome the “nurturing” of the dysfunctional family. I know they exist. I am one myself.

However, we are in the minority. 

Kids generally imprint on their parents and close relatives. It takes self awareness and determination to grow beyond that, something that is the exception rather than the rule.

You know her. We don’t. 

I would offer this one caveat, and not just to you but to anyone in a fresh relationship.

Proceed with Caution.


----------



## BruceBanner

Yeswecan said:


> You should let the past be the past now. Your GF actions "now" should tell you enough.


LOL. The past is always a good indicator of the future.


----------



## MyRevelation

Talk2Me said:


> She said she was promiscuous when she was younger mostly. She said she isn't really sure why she was but she said she can't change it. She said she isn't proud of it but accepts it for what it is. Her mom was only 15 when she had her and her dad has been in and out of prison his entire life for drug abuse. She lived with her aunt and grandmother whom she ended up taking care of both while she was 13-17 and her mother moved out while she took care of them. They both ended up getting severely sick and dying. Her mothers best friend slept with well over 1000 men and is a swinger so sex was something casual in her family.
> 
> My feelings for the other women I've slept with? I don't know as I don't really think about it ever at all. I sometime think about my ex wife as we had a long relationship but sexually she doesn't even remotely compare to my current g/f. The other girls were OK but again nothing compared to my current g/f.
> 
> It would be impossible to find someone else like my current g/f. I realize some of the greatness we have is a result of some of the things I hate about her past.


Knowing what I know now and the experiences I’ve had and the red flags I blew through and later paid the consequences for ignoring the obvious ... what you’ve posted is enough for me to pass on this relationship... the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze.


----------



## Cynthia

BruceBanner said:


> LOL. The past is always a good indicator of the future.


Right. Her past indicates that she was abused. She acted out. She went to college and got her degree. She got therapy and worked through her issues. She has never cheated on a boyfriend. She is a loving, engaged girlfriend to the OP. 

This all shows that she takes responsibility for herself and works through her issues. Sounds pretty stable to me.


----------



## Openminded

It doesn't matter whether it "should" be an issue or not. For some it wouldn't be but for you it is. Just as your previous marriage is an issue for her. Try counseling for both of you since things that are unresolved can cause problems later.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CynthiaDe said:


> Right. Her past indicates that she was abused. She acted out. She went to college and got her degree. She got therapy and worked through her issues. She has never cheated on a boyfriend. She is a loving, engaged girlfriend to the OP.
> 
> This all shows that she takes responsibility for herself and works through her issues. Sounds pretty stable to me.


I knew a very similar woman in college.

She has been lovingly and faithfully married to her one and only husband going on 30 years now. Two wonderfully grown and successful now adult children. Rock solid wife, mother and citizen.


----------



## personofinterest

BruceBanner said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should let the past be the past now. Your GF actions "now" should tell you enough.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The past is always a good indicator of the future.
Click to expand...

So a teenage boy who showed a bunch of wild oats is a bad pick for a partner too, right?

Unless you're just a hypocrite


----------



## personofinterest

oldshirt said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only in the short run. To truly change your actions consistently over the long run you must change from within.
> 
> 
> 
> So in a way, that further highlights the base issue here.
> 
> If he does find her past morally repugnant and offends his sensabilities, that would mean that those thoughts and feelings would be manifested by word and/or deed at times.
> 
> (I'm not saying that that I totally agree a person's actions will always ultimately follow their feelings, but I am simply applying your statement to the situation and can see where that logic could cause problems going forward)
Click to expand...

I completely agree.

The last thing ANYONE deserved is to be married to someone who finds them morally inferior.


----------



## BruceBanner

personofinterest said:


> So a teenage boy who showed a bunch of wild oats is a bad pick for a partner too, right?
> 
> Unless you're just a hypocrite


Yes of course. People with a promiscuous past have a higher likelihood of more unstable and multiple marriages than those with less partners.


----------



## personofinterest

BruceBanner said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a teenage boy who showed a bunch of wild oats is a bad pick for a partner too, right?
> 
> Unless you're just a hypocrite
> 
> 
> 
> Yes of course. People with a promiscuous past have a higher likelihood of more unstable and multiple marriages than those with less partners.
Click to expand...

You may be the first person I've ever encountered who is actually consistent and not a hypocrite on this topic.


----------



## Talk2Me

personofinterest said:


> So a teenage boy who showed a bunch of wild oats is a bad pick for a partner too, right?
> 
> Unless you're just a hypocrite


It is such a double standard. As a guy if I slept around and then got married it would be considered perfectly normal.


----------



## Talk2Me

BruceBanner said:


> Yes of course. People with a promiscuous past have a higher likelihood of more unstable and multiple marriages than those with less partners.


Keep in mind that in many of these cases the people can be a lot more attractive and have more options. Def. the case with my g/f as she is drop dead gorgeous and can basically get any guy she wants off her looks alone. It's a good and a bad thing obviously.


----------



## SunCMars

ConanHub said:


> Especially the guy who raped her when she was 11. I'm sure she has really fond memories of that one.
> 
> A girl never forgets her first time right?


If this OP were me, ah, he is not. :frown2:

That man, if still living and breathing would be met in the dark of the night.
A Martian would meet him in his warm bed.

Meeting his fate, seeing all that he bares, bears, soon leaking away.

Gads!
I would never recommend this. 
I do recommend the thought.

Know that real revenge tastes bitter-sweet. 
Locking and restraining iron bars usually claim those that execute such revenge.

Imagined revenge, ah, nothing sweeter can be thought and savored. Revenge keeps some men alive.





[The Helmsman]- The Martian. 
UlyssesHeart would, could not be restrained. It is not possible.


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> You may be the first person I've ever encountered who is actually consistent and not a hypocrite on this topic.


I too, agree with your tenet.

My issue is the internal harm and damage already done. She poses a serious risk to any man that marries her. 

That is my contention. 
Nothing more, nothing less, not, none the less.
No.

A boy, a man, a later-in-life promiscuous fellow can [also] hold and have the same risks.

A man who is a ten in looks, having a tongue spun full of sweet silvered words can always find and 'man'ipulate another lady to bed.

Any lady who saddens him, or questions him is likely to be left holding her own, lonely and loving heart in her hands. 

He too could be wounded by life, as he sees/finds no need in being stable. Stability is a hard found, and fought concept, this reality.

Or, he is just another shallow hedonist, a narcissist in waiting, preying on susceptible sweet girls and ladies.

I too see no difference.
The man holds the errant, selfish and pointing key, the lady holds the oft shallow, easy picked and turned lock.
Both these are wounded, they.





[The Helmsman]- Queen Nemesis speaks.


----------



## MEM2020

Every once in a while a guy comes on this site for this exact reason. This retroactive jealously thing.

Most of the time, the guys are not able to reach acceptance. As a result, they continue to periodically bring it up with their gf. This is purely an insecurity thing, but instead of acknowledging that it is their own insecurity at play, the guys instead insist on making about their partners “poor/****ty/etc.” choices. 

It turns into this: I feel bad and you need to make me feel better by begging my forgiveness type drill. 

Eventually the partner gets defensive/angry and the relationship ends fairly shortly after that. And when it ends, the guy is furious at his now ex partner for ruining the relationship, despite the fact that HE is the one who ruined it. 

Maybe you will be different than the others. I will say, most of them contradicted themselves fairly often. Your first post said she did the sugar daddy thing after a long term relationship ended and she was in a bad headspace. Your second or third post said she hasn’t had serious relationships before you. 

I hope you do better than the other guys with this issue. 




Talk2Me said:


> She said she was promiscuous when she was younger mostly. She said she isn't really sure why she was but she said she can't change it. She said she isn't proud of it but accepts it for what it is. Her mom was only 15 when she had her and her dad has been in and out of prison his entire life for drug abuse. She lived with her aunt and grandmother whom she ended up taking care of both while she was 13-17 and her mother moved out while she took care of them. They both ended up getting severely sick and dying. Her mothers best friend slept with well over 1000 men and is a swinger so sex was something casual in her family.
> 
> My feelings for the other women I've slept with? I don't know as I don't really think about it ever at all. I sometime think about my ex wife as we had a long relationship but sexually she doesn't even remotely compare to my current g/f. The other girls were OK but again nothing compared to my current g/f.
> 
> It would be impossible to find someone else like my current g/f. I realize some of the greatness we have is a result of some of the things I hate about her past.


----------



## personofinterest

Talk2Me said:


> BruceBanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes of course. People with a promiscuous past have a higher likelihood of more unstable and multiple marriages than those with less partners.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that in many of these cases the people can be a lot more attractive and have more options. Def. the case with my g/f as she is drop dead gorgeous and can basically get any guy she wants off her looks alone. It's a good and a bad thing obviously.
Click to expand...

AHHHHHH

NOW we get down to it.....


----------



## Diana7

Talk2Me said:


> It is such a double standard. As a guy if I slept around and then got married it would be considered perfectly normal.


That's simply not true. For me its no different if the person is male or female. I am sure I am not the only one who sees it that way either. 

Like most things its important that both partners see important thing like sex in the same way. Marriage is far more likely to succeed if you agree on the major things.


----------



## Diana7

Talk2Me said:


> Keep in mind that in many of these cases the people can be a lot more attractive and have more options. Def. the case with my g/f as she is drop dead gorgeous and can basically get any guy she wants off her looks alone. It's a good and a bad thing obviously.


I have lost count of the number of times a man here has said their wife/partner/girlfriend is 'drop dead gorgeous'. Can it really be the case that most men here seem to have these stunning women??Doesn't seem feasible. I think its lovely that men here think their partners are gorgeous, but I suspect that its often the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', thing or that they like boasting to the members here.


----------



## Andy1001

Diana7 said:


> I have lost count of the number of times a man here has said their wife/partner/girlfriend is 'drop dead gorgeous'. Can it really be the case that most men here seem to have these stunning women??Doesn't seem feasible. I think its lovely that men here think their partners are gorgeous, but I suspect that its often the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', thing or that they like boasting to the members here.


I think what he means is if a woman is absolutely beautiful then she has a lot more choices of men than an average looking woman. She is also likely to be hit on regularly and if she is not completely faithful then temptation arises. 
So it stands to reason that if one partner in a relationship feels that he or she is “a catch” then a feeling of entitlement isn’t far behind.


----------



## personofinterest

Andy1001 said:


> I think what he means is if a woman is absolutely beautiful then she has a lot more choices of men than an average looking woman. She is also likely to be hit on regularly and if she is not completely faithful then temptation arises.
> *So it stands to reason that if one partner in a relationship feels that he or she is “a catch” then a feeling of entitlement isn’t far behind.*


Has the OP stated that his girlfriend thinks she is a "catch" and is entitled?

I think what this really boils down to is that the OP is not okay with her past, but she is so hot and so good at sex he can't let her go. So he is going to stay with her for the ego boost, but eventually his attitude about her character will leak through, and she will feel awful.


----------



## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> Has the OP stated that his girlfriend thinks she is a "catch" and is entitled?
> 
> I think what this really boils down to is that the OP is not okay with her past, but she is so hot and so good at sex he can't let her go. So he is going to stay with her for the ego boost, but eventually his attitude about her character will leak through, and she will feel awful.


I was answering Diana’s comment about men having beautiful partners,I wasn’t addressing the op or his (imaginary) problem.


----------



## jlg07

From what the OP said in this thread, she is NOT acting entitled or flirty, or anything like that. She seems to be totally devoted to HIM.

However, I think women IN GENERAL (please don't kill me for this) have more opportunities to cheat if they want to -- men who go after attached women are dogs (again, IN GENERAL) and will mount anything that is receptive stays still long enough. They don't have to be "drop-dead gorgeous" -- they just have to be ok and willing.


----------



## Cynthia

I don't know why anyone thinks @Talk2Me and his girlfriend need couple's counseling. This is not a couples issue. It is an Talk2Me issue. All of this is due to something that is bothering Talk2Me that his girlfriend can do nothing about. She cannot change the past. She has worked through the things that caused her to behave that way in the first place. What else can she do! Nothing. There is nothing else she can do. Talk2Me needs to work through this in therapy.


----------



## personofinterest

jlg07 said:


> From what the OP said in this thread, she is NOT acting entitled or flirty, or anything like that. She seems to be totally devoted to HIM.
> 
> However, I think women IN GENERAL (please don't kill me for this) have more opportunities to cheat if they want to -- men who go after attached women are dogs (again, IN GENERAL) and will mount anything that is receptive stays still long enough. They don't have to be "drop-dead gorgeous" -- they just have to be ok and willing.


So it's the female gender's fault that men are more likely to be dogs? Am I understanding you correctly? Or are you implying that since a woman might have more people hitting on her, women in general are not as faithful?

Either one sounds ridiculous.


----------



## jlg07

personofinterest said:


> So it's the female gender's fault that men are more likely to be dogs? Am I understanding you correctly? Or are you implying that since a woman might have more people hitting on her, women in general are not as faithful?
> 
> Either one sounds ridiculous.


Sorry, NO not the woman's fault, and not implying that women are not faithful at all. To me, it is the nature of guys who have no moral compunction against going after attached women. They are going to hit on any/everything. It was more a comment on the "drop-dead gorgeous"... Men like this don't care if they are drop-dead gorgeous, just pretty, or plain. They are just on the hunt. Has NOTHING to do with the woman being more receptive because she is pretty or whatever at all.

There are woman who have flaws in their character just like there are men who do -- they are the ones who will be receptive, not all.

Also, I just think that if a woman WANTS to cheat, she will have more opportunities in general.


----------



## Deejo

Am I missing the reason that people are attacking one another all over this thread?

Here is my 2 cent summary:

Loving relationship. She's shared her complete, and tragic history. Been together for over 2 years.

Here is what I'm cherry-picking, and the OP if he's still around can tell me if I'm wrong.

There is a bit of retroactive jealousy going on based on his knowledge of her past. 

I'm curious if OP has a case of "Why me?"

He indicates that his partner 'could get any guy she wants...'. So, in his mind she is very attractive, and very desirable, which may leave him wondering why she chose him, and whether she will always continue to choose him. Thus his anxiety.

How'd I do?


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> Am I missing the reason that people are attacking one another all over this thread?
> 
> Here is my 2 cent summary:
> 
> Loving relationship. She's shared her complete, and tragic history. Been together for over 2 years.
> 
> Here is what I'm cherry-picking, and the OP if he's still around can tell me if I'm wrong.
> 
> There is a bit of retroactive jealousy going on based on his knowledge of her past.
> 
> I'm curious if OP has a case of "Why me?"
> 
> He indicates that his partner 'could get any guy she wants...'. So, in his mind she is very attractive, and very desirable, which may leave him wondering why she chose him, and whether she will always continue to choose him. Thus his anxiety.
> 
> How'd I do?


Yep, and it is easier and much more "righteous" to focus on HER past instead of HIS insecurity.


----------



## Deejo

personofinterest said:


> Yep, and it is easier and much more "righteous" to focus on HER past instead of HIS insecurity.


In the context of what I've seen so far, there has been some of that going on. But let's be fair ... he's not blaming her, and he's the one that came here asking for assistance. I don't think there is any doubt that Talk2Me knows he is the crux of the issue, he's just trying to sort through it.

No?

The other stuff is just noise.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

personofinterest said:


> Has the OP stated that his girlfriend thinks she is a "catch" and is entitled?
> 
> I think what this really boils down to is that the OP is not okay with her past, but she is so hot and so good at sex he can't let her go. So he is going to stay with her for the ego boost, but eventually his attitude about her character will leak through, and she will feel awful.


This is kind of what I was referring to at the beginning of this thread. It is all good now while she is young and beautiful, but what about the future?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> I have lost count of the number of times a man here has said their wife/partner/girlfriend is 'drop dead gorgeous'. Can it really be the case that most men here seem to have these stunning women??Doesn't seem feasible. I think its lovely that men here think their partners are gorgeous, but I suspect that its often the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', thing or that they like boasting to the members here.


I don't think it really matters. As long as a man thinks his wife is stunning, the rest is just noise. Whether or not she's really hot in any objective or societally driven sense makes no difference; if the man in her life thinks she's the bees knees, nothing else matters.


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> Yep, and it is easier and much more "righteous" to focus on HER past instead of HIS insecurity.


I really dont think its insecurity at all to feel unsure about being with someone who was paid for sex to make money. Forgetting the hundreds of casual partners, that takes it to a whole new level.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I don't think it really matters. As long as a man thinks his wife is stunning, the rest is just noise. Whether or not she's really hot in any objective or societally driven sense makes no difference; if the man in her life thinks she's the bees knees, nothing else matters.


Yes I completely agree, that was my point. :smile2:


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> In the context of what I've seen so far, there has been some of that going on. But let's be fair ... he's not blaming her, and he's the one that came here asking for assistance. I don't think there is any doubt that Talk2Me knows he is the crux of the issue, he's just trying to sort through it.
> 
> No?
> 
> The other stuff is just noise.


Actually I think you are right. I think the OP knows that his fears and thoughts are something he needs to overcome.

It's a shame more jaded men/people then him want to keep him mired in thinking of her as a tramp.

I wonder what secondary gain they get out of it...


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> Actually I think you are right. I think the OP knows that his fears and thoughts are something he needs to overcome.
> 
> It's a shame more jaded men/people then him want to keep him mired in thinking of her as a tramp.
> 
> I wonder what secondary gain they get out of it...


I think that many are warning of the potential future problems, especially when the initial exciting honeymoon period has passed. 

Marrying someone is a massive decision. You need to be 100% sure. We all have different criteria that we want in a partner.


----------



## red oak

Just food for thought @Talk2Me

It was only as the culture we live in violently spread its ideology that sex before marriage became a taboo.

In the peaceful societies sex before marriage, or "promiscuity" was encouraged and any who didn't were considered aberrant. 

Be glad she has told you, for if you are the only one she has told she put a lot on the line, and it should ease your stress.


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> AHHHHHH
> 
> NOW we get down to it.....


Yes, we do.

It is: 
The sweet lips.
The perfect and firm breasts.
The shapely waist and hips.
The long legs.
The love of active and adventuress sex from her.
The furry cleft that never tires, never disappoints.
The perfect personality, made in heaven, just for men.

Men want these things.
Most all want them, *exclusively*.

End of story..... for most men.
...................................................................................................................

Most women want the great personality first, the passionate sex following close behind. 
Only her behind, and only so at her behest.......of course!


----------



## SunCMars

My big question on all of this, discounting how @Diana7 feels [against it], is why our TAM ladies are so quick to defend this promiscuous behavior?
Defend, ignore, look the other way, etc.

I have my own thoughts on this. Prodigious thoughts.

Yes.
.......................................................................................................................................................................

Maybe someone will be so kind to open a separate thread on this 

{Promiscuity in women}. Is it a good or bad thing?

Men will jump right in on this topic, most TAM women, as per usual, will tread lightly here.






[The Helmsman]- I will get Lilith to open up on this topic. She is promiscuous.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> I think that many are warning of the potential future problems, especially when the initial exciting honeymoon period has passed.
> 
> Marrying someone is a massive decision. You need to be 100% sure. We all have different criteria that we want in a partner.


I thought the God YOU claim to believe in forgives completely, justifies, and make us as if we had never sinned.....

Or are people with pasts still not worthy to marry "good" people?


----------



## Steelman

Sex at 11, 40 partners, a sugar daddy? She sounds like she has a little bit of a screw loose. It may be fun and great now, but I don't know?? She doesn't sound like someone who will ever really be satisfied.


----------



## StillSearching

Talk2Me said:


> I've been dating my g/f for almost 2 years now. She is awesome and absolutely the most beautiful woman I've ever dated. The sex is amazing, our connection is amazing, we have the best time together, we live together, she's super intelligent, tons of fun, spontaneous, passionate, successful, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> BUT.......
> 
> Her past makes me absolutely crazy.
> 
> She was sexually active at a very young age (11 years old) *She's slept with approx 40 guys* which kills me. I knew about this when we first started dating but I often think about it. The worse of all was she had a Sugar Daddy for approx. a month and a half. They had sex twice (according to her but she's very honest about it and I do believe her) and it drives me insane whenever I think about an older guy paying her basically for sex. She did it when she was in grad school to help pay her bills she says it was the worst decision she's ever made in her life. She said it was after a long-term relationship and she was just in a bad headspace and thought it wouldn't impact her the way it did. She got the idea from a college friend who was doing it to not have student loans.
> 
> Anyways, I don't often think about it but whenever I do I have a hole in my heart and it makes my stomach feel sick. She the most caring women I've ever known and our relationship is great but I can't stop thinking about these things and it somewhat makes me think differently of her.
> 
> Should I try to keep getting over it or how should I deal with it? We've talked about it obviously but I never bring it up because I really don't want any details about it nor do I want her to think I'm second guessing our relationship.


x3 thats the rule.
She's too damaged to marry.
Have fun with her...but under NO circumstances marry this girl.


----------



## Cynthia

SunCMars said:


> My big question on all of this, discounting how @Diana7 feels [against it], is why our TAM ladies are so quick to defend this promiscuous behavior?
> Defend, ignore, look the other way, etc.
> 
> I have my own thoughts on this. Prodigious thoughts.
> 
> Yes.
> .......................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> Maybe someone will be so kind to open a separate thread on this
> 
> {Promiscuity in women}. Is it a good or bad thing?
> 
> Men will jump right in on this topic, most TAM women, as per usual, will tread lightly here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [The Helmsman]- I will get Lilith to open up on this topic. She is promiscuous.


She was promiscuous. That doesn't mean she still is. Perhaps I have defended her past behavior, because she had been abused, but she worked through it and is no long promiscuous.

I believe that people can change. I don't think most do, but when there is great effort people really can and do change. She seems to have made that effort and done that. I think holding it against her is unfair, especially considering why she did it in the first place.

I am conservative. I don't think having sex with multiple people is healthy or good. I don't even believe sex before marriage is appropriate. Yet, I still believe that if everything the OP says about his girlfriend is true that he should get help for dealing with his retroactive jealously and his feelings about her prostitution. If he can't, the relationship will not work. And there's absolutely nothing she can do about her past. What's done is done. She's done everything she can to work through all that and leave it behind her.


----------



## 2&out

Some interesting reading. Some pretty judgmental views. 

As a former man****, I think you should grow some self confidence, embrace what you have found, and trust someone who has shown to be honest and trustworthy. By 2 years you should have seen her true colors. Judge her by her actions and for what you have seen. not some imaginary guess.


----------



## Cynthia

Talk2Me said:


> We don't fight about it. I can't change it. When I first found out about the Sugar Daddy thing we got into a blowout fight. I knew she had gone on dates with a few guys for money but there was no sex. However, when I found out about the guy she did have sex with I was really really upset and we almost broke up over it. However, I was already in love with her and wanted to at least try to make it work. I was able to bury it for 6 months or so but every 4-6 weeks it comes back to light for whatever reason and I makes me upset.
> 
> I don't ever make her feel bad about it and I don't bring it up to her at all. I know she's ashamed she did it and struggles with it. Why would I just make her feel worse about it? We both want to be happy and we both want to be together. We both struggle with each others past unfortunately.


Have you made an appointment with a therapist yet?


----------



## 2&out

I find it odd that enjoying sex and doing so with several or many people when one is young and not attached/married somehow makes them a bad, untrustworthy person even though nothing happened except enjoyment. If 40 sex partners is the # that makes someone unable of being a good honest person and unworthy of love I'm a really bad despicable person. But I'm not.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I'm on the it's not a big deal as she and you are on the exclusive track, she's committed to you, wants to stay that way, and luckily didn't get any permanent health issues.

Recognize it, and let it slip out of your thoughts.


----------



## ConanHub

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't know why anyone thinks @Talk2Me and his girlfriend need couple's counseling. This is not a couples issue. It is an Talk2Me issue. All of this is due to something that is bothering Talk2Me that his girlfriend can do nothing about. She cannot change the past. She has worked through the things that caused her to behave that way in the first place. What else can she do! Nothing. There is nothing else she can do. Talk2Me needs to work through this in therapy.


She has some insecurities about herself because of his previous marriage otherwise I'm in perfect agreement because she sounds very solid.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> I really dont think its insecurity at all to feel unsure about being with someone who was paid for sex to make money. Forgetting the hundreds of casual partners, that takes it to a whole new level.


He is bothered most about the taking money for companionship and sex.

She had a count of about 40, not hundreds, including her rapist when she was 11.


----------



## ConanHub

Steelman said:


> Sex at 11, 40 partners, a sugar daddy? She sounds like she has a little bit of a screw loose. It may be fun and great now, but I don't know?? She doesn't sound like someone who will ever really be satisfied.


Raped at 11 and a very tough life from that point on at least and she eventually figured it out and changed before OP even met her.

The only reason he knows about her past is because she was open and honest with him.


----------



## ConanHub

StillSearching said:


> x3 thats the rule.
> She's too damaged to marry.
> Have fun with her...but under NO circumstances marry this girl.


This girl beat the odds and the "rule" you are referring to more than likely doesn't apply to a woman this honest.

OP would not have known if she hadn't told him.

She did not have to reveal her ugly past but she did.

She isn't anything like she use to be, according to OP, and she is quite rare as many women have bent the truth at least to land a man they desire.

Not this lady, she is too classy.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I would be interested in your POV if you had started being raped at 11.
> 
> Some of us had very few choices early on and didn't learn we had other avenues until adulthood.
> 
> It is a blessing not to be raped as a child and I am happy for you.
> 
> Your extreme lack of compassion and understanding does not seem to reflect the same God I worship, the one you claim to.


As I said before the people in my family who were all abused by their father (from much younger than 11)didn't have multiple partners as they grew up. One had a few, but the others didn't. Nor did some of the other abuse victims I know. It happens but its not inevitable. 
As for choosing to have a sugar daddy who pays you for sex, that is something that some young adults sadly decide to do rather than get a normal job which probably pays a lot less, its not as a result of abuse. Its a conscious decision made as an adult to help pay for college fees or other things.

My mum spent most of her childhood in an awful, very strict and unloving orphanage till she was thrown out at 16 as they did then. She was one of the most lovely kind and decent people I have known. 

So remember many have had bad childhoods. Also many people are promiscuous without a bad childhood.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator note:-*

I have just cleaned up a threadjack/off topic posts.

Please! No more threadjacks.


----------



## TAMAT

Although this is a second order effect there is also the issue of common friends she had with these OM from her past.

Also what is going to happen if they get married and are no longer lovers if she turns him into her "husband" I have to agree with some other posters that marriage may lead to a large change in her.


----------



## 2&out

You/all can put a 1 in front of her # - and likely be under mine. As I don't know. Think passed hers easily in first 2, maybe 3 years of my first "career". But. Once I committed and married (twice), I committed. I tried to be the best husband I could be. I never cheated. Yes my "history" may be unseemly to some, but my past "indiscretions" had ZERO to do with my commitment or love for my wives.

As I am me, they kind of knew I wasn't so "pure", but/and, I also tried to redirect this kind of discussion. I am who I am. I will not apologize or make excuses. Why is this important ? I am with you and want to be with you. Have I done something to make you feel otherwise ? 

Original poster. IMHO this is bull****. She's been up front and honest and answered questions that you really have NO REASON TO ASK. WHY are you asking ? The only thing that matters is YOUR relationship - not any others she OR you had. Are you searching for a reason to not love her ? Then there is something else going on - that likely has nothing to do with her. 

Side note. Some of this thread makes me want to puke. Makes me think of the TV ads about male T supplements and how each generation lately has less. Effing man up. Why would any of the other men she's had be better than you ? She's been with you 2 years. Wouldn't she have left your ass by now ? [email protected]#$%^&*()_


----------



## sokillme

I think those who dismiss the possibility that her sexual history could lead to trouble are being just as disingenuous as those who are saying it always does. It really depends on what the sex was about. If it's a coping mechanism or a way to substitute for low self esteem unless she has done the work it's going to lead to trouble, just like any other tool that is used that way. It's wise to be weary about that. There have been quite a few posts about that kind of situation on here an other forums. Unfortunately people who have been introduced to sex in a destructive way when they are just developing can have problems with this. 

I am sorry if that hurts the sensibilities of some on this site but it's OP's life he needs to be careful. Right now they are in the honeymoon stages, but if this women is the type who gets her self worth from sexual attraction (of which there are people who do, especially people who are introduced to sex at a young age where they are trying to establish their self worth) then as the intensity of the sexual attraction wanes as it does in most relationships what will happen? Will she look for it elsewhere? Will she brake it off with him? That is something for OP to think about. It very well could be a risk though. 

However it doesn't necessarily mean she is like that anymore. Sounds like she knows this was a problem and she has worked on it. Which is why I suggest they talk about it. Also that he talks to her counselor with her. 

Just as concerning is OP's inability to deal with being one of many. Thing is, as I see it, as someone who has not been with lots of people, she seems like one of many for him too. And that is kind of the point, a lot of this is perceptions. Like I have said to OP if he could have had sex with 40 would he? Probably. Which is why in his case I don't think it's as much about that as about him being insecure. I mean from her perspective she could think, yes she has 40 but for her he is the best, but of his 10 maybe someone he was with is better, so she worrys. That's kind of how this stuff works if you go down that rabbit hole. Better to strive to be the best and not worry about the past. 

He is going to need to deal with this insecurity because just like her having issues and possibly one day reverting to form, he may too. 

Maybe they are just not a good match.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Talk2Me said:


> I'm fine with her having sex with other people before we met ...


No, you're not.

I had to deal (and sometimes still _do_) with my husband's retroactive jealousy and to be brutally honest, it's a pain in the royal ass. It's not flattering, and it's not touching. It's a pain in the ass.

Get yourself right in the head, because she doesn't deserve to have to pay the price for YOUR inability to deal with your issues regarding her past. That's *your* problem, but you're making it HER problem, intentionally or not.


----------



## Blondilocks

StillSearching said:


> x3 thats the rule.
> She's too damaged to marry.
> Have fun with her...but under NO circumstances marry this girl.


I've never heard of this rule. Who decided the number is 3? Is that per day/month/year/lifetime?


----------



## SunCMars

My vision has temporarily returned....
.........................................................................................................

This women had become the center point in many lives.

More so the bullseye.

She has endured more painful arrows than most who walk the earth.

Her injurious arrows were made of flesh.

Yes, they penetrated her flesh, especially so her mind.

She was viewed as a vessel.

She was never a complete person until......

Until she met this OP.

Other men saw her as a comfort girl.

He saw her as a lovely girl who generously took care of all his needs.

His mental and physical needs.

She honestly did.

Honesty led to her past, led to her present condition.

She is now on trial for past deeds.

Her eyes are now open and clear.

She has bathed in two years of fidelity.

She is now clean and free of any past taint.

Hold her close.

OP....God [Fate] purposely put her in your path. 
Show mercy, show gratitude.

She makes you happy. 
What more can you ask of another soul?





[The Helmsman]- SunCMars.


----------



## StillSearching

Blondilocks said:


> I've never heard of this rule. Who decided the number is 3? Is that per day/month/year/lifetime?


It's multiply the total number of men, confessed to have sex with, by 3.
It's a known unspoken rule between men, that's why you never heard of it.


----------



## ConanHub

StillSearching said:


> It's multiply the total number of men, confessed to have sex with, by 3.
> It's a known unspoken rule between men, that's why you never heard of it.


Between men like you. Leave men like me out of it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

StillSearching said:


> It's multiply the total number of men, confessed to have sex with, by 3.
> It's a known unspoken rule between men, that's why you never heard of it.


I just asked DH. He rolled his eyes.


----------



## CharlieParker

What is 3 times "I'm not really sure"?


----------



## ConanHub

CharlieParker said:


> What is 3 times "I'm not really sure"?


He is saying that all women lie about their previous partner count and you have to take the number a woman actually discloses to you and multiply it by 3 so you can know the truth she is trying to hide from you.

It is really clever and is the perfect foil for all the devious lying women out there.

So if she says 1, it is actually 3 and so on.:wink2:


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

ConanHub said:


> He is saying that all women lie about their previous partner count and you have to take the number a woman actually discloses to you and multiply it by 3 so you can know the truth she is trying to hide from you.
> 
> It is really clever and is the perfect foil for all the devious lying women out there.
> 
> So if she says 1, it is actually 3 and so on.:wink2:


You mean my wife actually had 3 before me?!?!?!

She will be served before the end of the day!!!


----------



## ConanHub

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You mean my wife actually had 3 before me?!?!?!
> 
> She will be served before the end of the day!!!


So sorry that you had to find out this way.:grin2:

Mrs. Conan could multiply hers by 3 and maybe catch up to me but probably not.

I'm still upset to find out, thanks to this thread, that she wasn't truthful with me well, because she is a woman and the "rule" of x3 applies to her.>


----------



## FieryHairedLady

My hubby and I talked abut that "rule" way back when. Multiply womens #'s by 3, men divide their #'s by 3.

It is not a true formula and a joke. Sad if someone takes it seriously.


----------



## NobodySpecial

FieryHairedLady said:


> My hubby and I talked abut that "rule" way back when. Multiply womens #'s by 3, men divide their #'s by 3.
> 
> It is not a true formula and a joke. Sad if someone takes it seriously.


Sadder if someone cares.


----------



## minimalME

sokillme said:


> I think those who dismiss the possibility that her sexual history could lead to trouble are being just as disingenuous as those who are saying it always does. It really depends on what the sex was about. If it's a coping mechanism or a way to substitute for low self esteem unless she has done the work it's going to lead to trouble, just like any other tool that is used that way. It's wise to be weary about that. There have been quite a few posts about that kind of situation on here an other forums. Unfortunately people who have been introduced to sex in a destructive way when they are just developing can have problems with this.
> 
> I am sorry if that hurts the sensibilities of some on this site but it's OP's life he needs to be careful. Right now they are in the honeymoon stages, but if this women is the type who gets her self worth from sexual attraction (of which there are people who do, especially people who are introduced to sex at a young age where they are trying to establish their self worth) then as the intensity of the sexual attraction wanes as it does in most relationships what will happen? Will she look for it elsewhere? Will she brake it off with him? That is something for OP to think about. It very well could be a risk though.


As a woman with this type of background, I agree with what you've written. But, having said that, we now live in a promiscuous society where very few people won't have a history with many partners. And I think the problem with that in general is the inability to be content with normalcy. People seem to crave that high that we all get when we first meet, and in marriage, that comes and goes. The constant need for attention is a problem.

I also question whether or not this person was raped. I couldn't find where the original poster wrote that (?), yet the thought of it seemed to take on a life of it's own.

A few years ago, an acquaintance on facebook posted an article about a school that was having to deal with a group of _middle school girls_ who were giving blowjobs to classmates in the school bathrooms.

Our children are being bombarded with sex, and many parents simply ignore the music, and the tv, and the movies, or having any sort of guidelines for computers.



StillSearching said:


> She's too damaged to marry.
> Have fun with her...but under NO circumstances marry this girl.


Oh, by all means, use her and dump her. That's rich. 



StillSearching said:


> It's multiply the total number of men, confessed to have sex with, by 3.
> *It's a known unspoken rule between men*, that's why you never heard of it.


And precisely why women should simply tell men that their history is none of anyone's business.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

minimalME said:


> Oh, by all means, use her and dump her. That's rich.


Ironic, that someone who would make a statement like that would do so on the basis of someone else supposedly lacking character.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> Oh, by all means, use her and dump her. That's rich.


No kidding, huh?



> And precisely why women should simply tell men that their history is none of anyone's business.


I get it. I do. But, for myself, I don't WANT to be with someone who is going to judge me for my past. I actually don't regret my past. I don't think having sex and being female is bad. I am not the keeper of anyone else' moral gate. And if someone is going to judge me for that, I want to know so I can avoid them like the plague.


----------



## minimalME

And I understand that. It's just a personal choice. For me, most men are innately territorial. I know that isn't politically correct at the moment, but I can see why men have a problem with female promiscuity. 

And for a lot of guys, no matter how much information you give them, it won't be enough.

When my ex-husband asked about my past, I answered. And outwardly, he didn't seem to hold it against me. But then again, I was in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I regret telling him, and it's not a choice I'd make again.




NobodySpecial said:


> I get it. I do. But, for myself, I don't WANT to be with someone who is going to judge me for my past.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> I also question whether or not this person was raped. I couldn't find where the original poster wrote that (?), yet the thought of it seemed to take on a life of it's own.


Unless an 11 year old girl can give consent to 16 year old guy, then it is rape.

It absolutely is by my standards and I would seriously question anyone's mental health that thinks that an 11 year old can give consent for sex, especially to a teen or adult.

That is why rape is being referred to. Her first of 40 "partners" was a child rapist.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> And I understand that. It's just a personal choice. For me, most men are innately territorial. I know that isn't politically correct at the moment, but I can see why men have a problem with female promiscuity.


Sure, it is personal. But I do NOT think there is anything innate about it. 



> And for a lot of guys, no matter how much information you give them, it won't be enough.
> 
> When my ex-husband asked about my past, I answered. And outwardly, he didn't seem to hold it against me. But then again, I was in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I regret telling him, and it's not a choice I'd make again.


I get it. But I cannot imagine being genuinely intimate with someone I had to hide from. I mean, that is polar opposite to what intimacy is.


----------



## CharlieParker

NobodySpecial said:


> I get it. I do. But, for myself, I don't WANT to be with someone who is going to judge me for my past. I actually don't regret my past. I don't think having sex and being female is bad. I am not the keeper of anyone else' moral gate. And if someone is going to judge me for that, I want to know so I can avoid them like the plague.


My wife made sure, before marriage, that I was OK with her rather large "number". But she always embraced her sexuality. 

I don't think we discussed it, but I'm sure she ran in to some judgey and/or use then discard types of guys.


----------



## minimalME

Right, well, this site defintiely runs the gamut in terms of standards. Open marriages, swinging, etc. - that's not intimacy to me.



NobodySpecial said:


> I get it. But I cannot imagine being genuinely intimate with someone I had to hide from. I mean, that is polar opposite to what intimacy is.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Now I have to say, men are, and should be, territorial and protective. 

But she wasn't "his" before they met, so moot point there.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> Right, well, this site defintiely runs the gamut in terms of standards. Open marriages, swinging, etc. - that's not intimacy to me.


Intimacy is not limited to sex for me. In fact, it is but a small part of intimacy. Safety in sharing my true self with DH and his feeling the same is far more intimate, and actually allows for a much better intimacy within sex. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now I have to say, men are, and *should *be, territorial and protective.


Why? If he is, and his partner digs it, Great! But why *should* he be?


----------



## MyRevelation

The thread title is: “Should girlfriends past be an issue?”

... and the answer should be Hell Yes!!!

It may not be a primary issue or even a dealbreaker to some, but it damn well better be an issue to consider long term ... and anyone would be foolish to NOT consider it.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

NobodySpecial said:


> Why? If he is, and his partner digs it, Great! But why *should* he be?


Why wouldn't he be?

Every man should stand up for what he wants and keep others from taking his woman (the most important part of his life), then things he cares for, from him.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why wouldn't he be?


Because it is not who he is. Because he does not want to be. 



> Every man *should *stand up for what he wants and keep others from taking his woman (the most important part of his life), then things he cares for, from him.


Why SHOULD he do that if he wants a woman to stand up for her own darned self and her relationship with HIM?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

My Dear Wife stands up for herself and our relationship all the time. 

Why would a man shy away from being territorial about his W?

My being willing to guard my W and her well being doesn't diminish her in any way.

If a man (or person) isn't willing to fight (figuratively and yes physically if needed) for what he wants, he doesn't want it bad enough. 

??


----------



## NobodySpecial

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> My Dear Wife stands up for herself and our relationship all the time.
> 
> Why would a man shy away from being territorial about his W?


There is no reason for a person to shy away from how they feel. What I am saying, hopefully for the benefit of the OP, is that nor *should *they feel they have to. This does not need to be a "man should" thing. A "man should" be true to himself.


----------



## sokillme

minimalME said:


> When my ex-husband asked about my past, I answered. And outwardly, he didn't seem to hold it against me. But then again, I was in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I regret telling him, and it's not a choice I'd make again.


Besides whether or not this would cause tension which it might, a better question is, is this the best strategy in general. Isn't it better to just find a man who doesn't care. 

I mean lots of men don't care, some even encourage it. I mean honestly this stuff is no different then anything else in marriage. Money, raising kids, time together, time apart etc, all of this needs to be talked about and worked on. 

And truthfully it should be talked about thoroughly before you get married. That's the thing and kind of the point of my whole first post. People have a right to their deal breakers whatever they are. No one is entitled to a relationship with anyone. 

Better to be as honest as possible about everything good and bad and then figure out if any of that is a deal breaker. 

Of course all of that is also dependent on the fact that you marry someone of good character. Which is were I suspect the real problem was in your marriage, not your sex count.


----------



## StillSearching

minimalME said:


> And precisely why women should simply tell men that their history is none of anyone's business.


That's a good idea.
Give that a try. 
I'm sure the outcome will be favorable.


----------



## ConanHub

The only reason I would want to know a woman's past was in case anything needed dealt with and I also don't like being surprised by exes.

If she had done porn, prostitution or just gone through a phase as a party favor, I would work with her to make sure it wouldn't impact our lives unfavorably.

If a woman gets my head turned, she is certainly worth it.

I have only had it happen once and I married her.


----------



## minimalME

People are definitely free to have their standards and ask their questions and make their choices. 

Personally, I don't need the oversharing. Listening to men on dates volunteer inappropriate, unasked for information got old really, really fast. I don't need to know that your last girlfriend had her pubic hair removed through laser treatments.

I don't need to know that on a first date, and I don't need to know that in order to marry someone. 

The information exchages between people have become ridiculous. And I don't believe it helps. 




sokillme said:


> And truthfully it should be talked about thoroughly before you get married. That's the thing and kind of the point of my whole first post. People have a right to their deal breakers whatever they are. No one is entitled to a relationship with anyone.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> As a woman with this type of background, I agree with what you've written. But, having said that, we now live in a promiscuous society where very few people won't have a history with many partners. And I think the problem with that in general is the inability to be content with normalcy. People seem to crave that high that we all get when we first meet, and in marriage, that comes and goes. The constant need for attention is a problem.
> 
> I also question whether or not this person was raped. I couldn't find where the original poster wrote that (?), yet the thought of it seemed to take on a life of it's own.
> 
> A few years ago, an acquaintance on facebook posted an article about a school that was having to deal with a group of _middle school girls_ who were giving blowjobs to classmates in the school bathrooms.
> 
> Our children are being bombarded with sex, and many parents simply ignore the music, and the tv, and the movies, or having any sort of guidelines for computers.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, by all means, use her and dump her. That's rich.
> 
> 
> 
> And precisely why women should simply tell men that their history is none of anyone's business.


In marriage there shouldnt be anything hidden. Especially something so important. If a man said to me that his past sexual partners were none of my business I would know that he wasn't the man for me.Partly because he was being secretive and partly because he had probably had many partners.


----------



## minimalME

And the irony continues.

I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.



StillSearching said:


> That's a good idea.
> Give that a try.
> I'm sure the outcome will be favorable.


----------



## Cynthia

minimalME said:


> And the irony continues.
> 
> I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.


Then they probably complain that they are looking for a woman who hasn't had many partners. Is that right?


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> Besides whether or not this would cause tension which it might, a better question is, is this the best strategy in general. Isn't it better to just find a man who doesn't care.
> 
> I mean lots of men don't care, some even encourage it. I mean honestly this stuff is no different then anything else in marriage. Money, raising kids, time together, time apart etc, all of this needs to be talked about and worked on.
> 
> And truthfully it should be talked about thoroughly before you get married. That's the thing and kind of the point of my whole first post. People have a right to their deal breakers whatever they are. No one is entitled to a relationship with anyone.
> 
> Better to be as honest as possible about everything good and bad and then figure out if any of that is a deal breaker.
> 
> Of course all of that is also dependent on the fact that you marry someone of good character. Which is were I suspect the real problem was in your marriage, not your sex count.


I agree, What sort of marriage is it when there are secrets and deception? I am all for openness and honesty with a spouse.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> In marriage there shouldnt be anything hidden. Especially something so important. If a man said to me that his past sexual partners were none of my business I would know that he wasn't the man for me.Partly because he was being secretive and partly because he had probably had many partners.


And that's ok.

Each person has their opinions on this, and each are entitled to.

No sweat.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> And I understand and accept that.
> 
> We've had this discussion over and over on this site. I consider it privacy - not secrecy.


And that is you! Know thyself.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> People are definitely free to have their standards and ask their questions and make their choices.
> 
> Personally, I don't need the oversharing. Listening to men on dates volunteer inappropriate, unasked for information got old really, really fast. I don't need to know that your last girlfriend had her pubic hair removed through laser treatments.
> 
> I don't need to know that on a first date, and I don't need to know that in order to marry someone.
> 
> The information exchages between people have become ridiculous. And I don't believe it helps.


I agree about some of the detailed stuff. What I posted earlier can be beneficial to a couple that wants to make a life together.

I also don't think anyone needs to know anything about history unless there is a serious commitment on both parts as well as agreement.

When I met Mrs. C, the last thing on my mind was her history because she was my future.

We did have our serious talk before moving in together.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

ConanHub said:


> I agree about some of the detailed stuff. What I posted earlier can be beneficial to a couple that wants to make a life together.
> 
> I also don't think anyone needs to know anything about history unless there is a serious commitment on both parts as well as agreement.
> 
> *When I met Mrs. C, the last thing on my mind was her history because she was my future.*
> 
> We did have our serious talk before moving in together.


Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. That will be the best thing I read on the net all week.


----------



## CharlieParker

minimalME said:


> And the irony continues.
> 
> I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.


I’m so glad I’m married, dating sounds so complex today. Not that I was really good at it 3 decades ago.

Maybe you should try having sex before a first real date, worked well for us. JK, about the you should try it part.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

minimalME said:


> And the irony continues.
> 
> I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.


That's sad to hear.

I'm confident, that were I to find myself on the market again, I wouldn't be looking for quick sex, but rather a relationship which may, at the appropriate (for both) time, go sexual.

Surely I'm not the only one?


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> And the irony continues.
> 
> I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.


Where are you looking?


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's sad to hear.
> 
> I'm confident, that were I to find myself on the market again, I wouldn't be looking for quick sex, but rather a relationship which may, at the appropriate (for both) time, go sexual.
> 
> Surely I'm not the only one?



No you aren't the only one. I think it depends where you look.


----------



## Diana7

minimalME said:


> And I understand and accept that.
> 
> We've had this discussion over and over on this site. I consider it privacy - not secrecy.


Why would I want to keep anything so important from my own husband? I am a very honest and open person. I wouldn't be in a marriage were there were things hidden and unanswered questions. How can you make that very important decision as to whether to marry someone if they won't be honest with you? If you don't know what they may be hiding? When you marry you become one.


----------



## Deejo

Found several posts here interesting, so started a separate thread here: https://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-...cations-around-postd-dating.html#post19829653

I find the question of what about someones history sours them, or they are indifferent about, interesting in the scheme of dating after D.

Don't know if Talk2Me will be back or not, but his thread is pretty much hijacked at this point.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator warning*

Quit this threadjackery now, or the thread might have to be closed.


----------



## personofinterest

I have a wonderful, secure, manly husband. He knows I was raped at 12. He would never say "POI started having sex at 12" because he's not an ass.

I was a virgin when I married (yeah yeah go ahead and tell me no I wasn't cause of the rape). 

After my divorce I did date some before my husband. He knows this.

I'm thankful he didn't pigeonhole me as some permanently damaged goods.

OP, this is obviously too much for you. And you are who you are.

Just do the right thing and break up. There are probably virgins out there who are naturally good at sex or less experienced women whose past won't be an issue.

Don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole just because you like having a hot girlfriend.

That isn't fair to either of you.

And dont just use her for fun. That suggestion was devoid of class and character.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> minimalME said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the irony continues.
> 
> I don't date anymore. Want to know why? Because men didn't want to date someone who wouldn't have sex on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.
> 
> 
> 
> That's sad to hear.
> 
> I'm confident, that were I to find myself on the market again, I wouldn't be looking for quick sex, but rather a relationship which may, at the appropriate (for both) time, go sexual.
> 
> Surely I'm not the only one?
Click to expand...

Not at all. I wouldn't have a relationship with a woman that put out that quick. Sure, I might have sex with her, but I'd lose interest if it were too easy. 

But if the men MM seen didn't want a relationship and just wanted sex, then that is different. Depends what they are looking for.


----------



## MattMatt

personofinterest said:


> I have a wonderful, secure, manly husband. He knows I was raped at 12. He would never say "POI started having sex at 12" because he's not an ass.
> 
> I was a virgin when I married (yeah yeah go ahead and tell me no I wasn't cause of the rape).
> 
> After my divorce I did date some before my husband. He knows this.
> 
> I'm thankful he didn't pigeonhole me as some permanently damaged goods.
> 
> OP, this is obviously too much for you. And you are who you are.
> 
> Just do the right thing and break up. There are probably virgins out there who are naturally good at sex or less experienced women whose past won't be an issue.
> 
> Don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole just because you like having a hot girlfriend.
> 
> That isn't fair to either of you.
> 
> And dont just use her for fun. That suggestion was devoid of class and character.


There's the old saying: "Men marry women, boys marry virgins."

The OP needs to realise how unfair he is being to his girlfriend. He's stringing her along and he really should not do that. He must be honest with her.


----------



## colingrant

You can't undo the history. Look at it this way, part of the reason you enjoy her is because of her vast experience which is now being shared with you. The sex, the spontaneity, the fun. You're the beneficiary of her past. Roll with it and don't look back. In fact, she may admire you because you're not influenced or threatened by her beauty or past. One day at a time pal. Forgot about yesterday. Enjoy today and look forward to tomorrow.


----------



## [email protected]

In another connection, someone said that you are in bed with everyone your partner has slept with. And the past makes us all what we are today. Alas, even for those with very forgiving natures, the past can come back to bite a person in the ass badly.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's sad to hear.
> 
> I'm confident, that were I to find myself on the market again, I wouldn't be looking for quick sex, but rather a relationship which may, at the appropriate (for both) time, go sexual.
> 
> Surely I'm not the only one?


On mainstream OLD sites, @minimalME is not wrong. There are a LOT of dudes looking for a female who is DTF. Period. They very often have identifiable clues in the profiles and early chat habits... But not always.


----------



## minimalME

I should get you to give me lessons. I'm obviously oblivious. 



NobodySpecial said:


> On mainstream OLD sites, @minimalME is not wrong. There are a LOT of dudes looking for a female who is DTF. Period. *They very often have identifiable clues in the profiles and early chat habits*... But not always.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

NobodySpecial said:


> On mainstream OLD sites, @minimalME is not wrong. There are a LOT of dudes looking for a female who is DTF. Period. They very often have identifiable clues in the profiles and early chat habits... But not always.


I didn't say anybody was "wrong." I'm quite sure I'm in the minority here. I only said "surely I'm not the _only _one." And even that was said as more of a hopeful statement than a definitive one. 

For most of us, the number of potential matches is a small sliver of the total available population due to any number of factors. That is but one of the many. But I still doubt that characteristic is universal. Prevalent, sure, but not necessarily comprehensive.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> I should get you to give me lessons. I'm obviously oblivious.


LOL! Or maybe I am just a beotch.


----------



## Talk2Me

Deejo said:


> Am I missing the reason that people are attacking one another all over this thread?
> 
> Here is my 2 cent summary:
> 
> Loving relationship. She's shared her complete, and tragic history. Been together for over 2 years.
> 
> Here is what I'm cherry-picking, and the OP if he's still around can tell me if I'm wrong.
> 
> There is a bit of retroactive jealousy going on based on his knowledge of her past.
> 
> I'm curious if OP has a case of "Why me?"
> 
> He indicates that his partner 'could get any guy she wants...'. So, in his mind she is very attractive, and very desirable, which may leave him wondering why she chose him, and whether she will always continue to choose him. Thus his anxiety.
> 
> How'd I do?


Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days so trying to get caught up here. 

First, for the comment about her being drop dead gorgeous I'm honestly not making it up. When I first met her (we met at a gym) I was blown away by her beauty. Do I feel she is out of my league? IDK about that but she is beautiful. Whenever she posts pics on FB people always gawk over them.

Second, I'm honestly convinced she is 1000% into our relationship and ours only. Guys message her frequently and she shows me and then just blocks them. She is ALWAYS wanting to spend time with me. She doesn't like being away from me. Last year I went on a week long business trip and she was balling her eyes out when I left and we chatted via messenger etc the entire time I was gone. This would have been her opportunity to cheat if the desire was there and clearly she didn't.

Am I jealous of her past? I honestly don't think it is that at all. Knowing who she is now if I didn't know that about her past I would never in a million years think it was what it was. 

The sex, yes it is AMAZING. Nearly every single day and it's passionate, hot, romantic, insane etc etc etc. However, I she is the first woman I've ever been with where we literally cuddle every single day. Face to face cuddling and just touching each other. Not a day goes by where we don't have this close-knit intimacy and for the first time in my life I love it.

Can she get any guys she wants? Honestly, I can't see anyone rejecting her based on her looks. I know we can't post pictures here but if I did I would prove my case.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I didn't say anybody was "wrong." I'm quite sure I'm in the minority here. I only said "surely I'm not the _only _one." And even that was said as more of a hopeful statement than a definitive one.


I have met them. Solid, nice, fun men ... who want a wife not to be a tip of a V. Boo. 




> For most of us, the number of potential matches is a small sliver of the total available population due to any number of factors. That is but one of the many. But I still doubt that characteristic is universal. Prevalent, sure, but not necessarily comprehensive.


Yes, I did not mean to suggest it was.


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days so trying to get caught up here.
> 
> First, for the comment about her being drop dead gorgeous I'm honestly not making it up. When I first met her (we met at a gym) I was blown away by her beauty. Do I feel she is out of my league? IDK about that but she is beautiful. Whenever she posts pics on FB people always gawk over them.
> 
> Second, I'm honestly convinced she is 1000% into our relationship and ours only. Guys message her frequently and she shows me and then just blocks them. She is ALWAYS wanting to spend time with me. She doesn't like being away from me. Last year I went on a week long business trip and she was balling her eyes out when I left and we chatted via messenger etc the entire time I was gone. This would have been her opportunity to cheat if the desire was there and clearly she didn't.
> 
> Am I jealous of her past? I honestly don't think it is that at all. Knowing who she is now if I didn't know that about her past I would never in a million years think it was what it was.
> 
> The sex, yes it is AMAZING. Nearly every single day and it's passionate, hot, romantic, insane etc etc etc. However, I she is the first woman I've ever been with where we literally cuddle every single day. Face to face cuddling and just touching each other. Not a day goes by where we don't have this close-knit intimacy and for the first time in my life I love it.
> 
> Can she get any guys she wants? Honestly, I can't see anyone rejecting her based on her looks. I know we can't post pictures here but if I did I would prove my case.


It's very foolish to rate someones relationship worthiness by their level of physical attractiveness. Lot's of men do it but they really shouldn't. Physical Attractiveness changes as we age. Granted you want to be attracted to the person you are in a relationship with, but the most important gauge of a person's worthiness should always be character.


----------



## Talk2Me

She'sStillGotIt said:


> No, you're not.
> 
> I had to deal (and sometimes still _do_) with my husband's retroactive jealousy and to be brutally honest, it's a pain in the royal ass. It's not flattering, and it's not touching. It's a pain in the ass.
> 
> Get yourself right in the head, because she doesn't deserve to have to pay the price for YOUR inability to deal with your issues regarding her past. That's *your* problem, but you're making it HER problem, intentionally or not.


I'm NOT at all making it HER problem as it's not something we ever talk about it. I think many people here are reading into things that have not happened. I don't talk about it nor do I bring it up. We've had discussions on it in the past and left it at that. I'm not insecure nor do ever want to make her feel bad.

Others are also saying to triple her number blah blah blah. She has no reason to lie. She come clean on everything I've asked her and has been up front and honest with me about it. It is something that I have to deal with but I truly believe she is worth it 100%.

The person she is today is not the person she was when she was 15 or even 20. I can't imagine anyone doing her line of work that doesn't have a passion and a heart of gold. She has said that she used to feel that monogamy was something that sets people up for failure but now that we've me she doesn't feel that way. She's said that the relationship we have has made her realize that 2 people can be in a committed and happy relationship and not need or want anything from other people sexually and emotionally.


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days so trying to get caught up here.
> 
> First, for the comment about her being drop dead gorgeous I'm honestly not making it up. When I first met her (we met at a gym) I was blown away by her beauty. Do I feel she is out of my league? IDK about that but she is beautiful. Whenever she posts pics on FB people always gawk over them.
> 
> Second, I'm honestly convinced she is 1000% into our relationship and ours only. Guys message her frequently and she shows me and then just blocks them. She is ALWAYS wanting to spend time with me. She doesn't like being away from me. Last year I went on a week long business trip and she was balling her eyes out when I left and we chatted via messenger etc the entire time I was gone. This would have been her opportunity to cheat if the desire was there and clearly she didn't.
> 
> Am I jealous of her past? I honestly don't think it is that at all. Knowing who she is now if I didn't know that about her past I would never in a million years think it was what it was.
> 
> The sex, yes it is AMAZING. Nearly every single day and it's passionate, hot, romantic, insane etc etc etc. However, I she is the first woman I've ever been with where we literally cuddle every single day. Face to face cuddling and just touching each other. Not a day goes by where we don't have this close-knit intimacy and for the first time in my life I love it.
> 
> Can she get any guys she wants? Honestly, I can't see anyone rejecting her based on her looks. I know we can't post pictures here but if I did I would prove my case.


I am curious what the rush is. Why can't you just proceed with caution and watch her actions. That is kind the standard with dating no? If things change they change.


----------



## Talk2Me

ConanHub said:


> Unless an 11 year old girl can give consent to 16 year old guy, then it is rape.
> 
> It absolutely is by my standards and I would seriously question anyone's mental health that thinks that an 11 year old can give consent for sex, especially to a teen or adult.
> 
> That is why rape is being referred to. Her first of 40 "partners" was a child rapist.


I actually brought this up to her on Monday and said that she was essentially raped by a 16 year old. She said that she didn't even know what was happening or what he was doing. She was afraid to tell him to stop. When I asked where his loser is today she said she had no idea but hopes he is struggling thru life.


----------



## Talk2Me

sokillme said:


> I am curious what the rush is. Why can't you just proceed with caution and watch her actions. That is kind the standard with dating no? If things change they change.


Honestly, the past few days I've done some soul searching. What I've come up with is that I'm absolutely in love with this woman and she makes me happier than I've ever been. She supports me 1000%, has been completely faithful, wants to marry me, give me the attention I desire, is super intelligent, and honestly is the woman of my dreams. I think of all the amazing times we've shared together and how we both see eye to eye on our future so why let something that happened years and years ago jade our future together.

Is there a risk she could cheat or do something? Of course there is. No matter the history there is always a risk someone will cheat in a relationship. I would be more likely to think a girl that was only with her husband her entire life would be more likely to cheat because of simple curiosity. Every relationship has risks and rewards we just need to decide if they are worth taking.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Talk2Me said:


> Honestly, the past few days I've done some soul searching. What I've come up with is that I'm absolutely in love with this woman and she makes me happier than I've ever been. She supports me 1000%, has been completely faithful, wants to marry me, give me the attention I desire, is super intelligent, and honestly is the woman of my dreams. I think of all the amazing times we've shared together and how we both see eye to eye on our future so why let something that happened years and years ago jade our future together.
> 
> Is there a risk she could cheat or do something? Of course there is. No matter the history there is always a risk someone will cheat in a relationship. I would be more likely to think a girl that was only with her husband her entire life would be more likely to cheat because of simple curiosity. Every relationship has risks and rewards we just need to decide if they are worth taking.


Summed up nicely. We all wish you the absolute best.


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> Honestly, the past few days I've done some soul searching. What I've come up with is that I'm absolutely in love with this woman and she makes me happier than I've ever been. She supports me 1000%, has been completely faithful, wants to marry me, give me the attention I desire, is super intelligent, and honestly is the woman of my dreams. I think of all the amazing times we've shared together and how we both see eye to eye on our future so why let something that happened years and years ago jade our future together.
> 
> Is there a risk she could cheat or do something? Of course there is. No matter the history there is always a risk someone will cheat in a relationship. I would be more likely to think a girl that was only with her husband her entire life would be more likely to cheat because of simple curiosity. Every relationship has risks and rewards we just need to decide if they are worth taking.


First off I am not sure how long you have been dating but YOU at least still have some issues to deal with. Besides that if it's meant to be she will still be there in a year or however long it takes you to work on these things. 

Yes there is always a risk of cheating however all it takes is reading on these sites to see past history can be a precursor to future behavior. So some people are more risk then others. 



> I would be more likely to think a girl that was only with her husband her entire life would be more likely to cheat because of simple curiosity.


I think you would be wrong. As far as I can tell People who use sex as a way to validate their worth are probably the most dangerous people to marry. I believe people with strong boundaries are the safest people, when it comes to cheating. We all have the same desires but having boundaries and a plan in place ahead of time even when those feelings happen suddenly is really what you should be looking for in a mate. 

It's very rare the curiosity is the motive for cheating, and if it is you married very very badly. 

There is also money, kids, planing, how you argue, how you keep house, what your priorities are, future goals, off the top of my head. 

Love is a terrible reason to get married when that is the only reason.


----------



## personofinterest

"the most important gauge of a person's worthiness should always be character."

And of course, in YOUR estimation, a woman should be judged by her adolescence for the rest of her life....


----------



## CharlieParker

Talk2Me said:


> Honestly, the past few days I've done some soul searching. What I've come up with is that I'm absolutely in love with this woman and she makes me happier than I've ever been. She supports me 1000%, has been completely faithful, wants to marry me, give me the attention I desire, is super intelligent, and honestly is the woman of my dreams. I think of all the amazing times we've shared together and how we both see eye to eye on our future so why let something that happened years and years ago jade our future together.
> 
> Is there a risk she could cheat or do something? Of course there is. No matter the history there is always a risk someone will cheat in a relationship. I would be more likely to think a girl that was only with her husband her entire life would be more likely to cheat because of simple curiosity. Every relationship has risks and rewards we just need to decide if they are worth taking.


My wife had a huge number. I had rather limited experience. We did talk about it and we worried about me possibly cheating (didn't/won't happen). She screened enough candidates but chose to marry me, that says something.


----------



## OnTheFly

personofinterest said:


> "the most important gauge of a person's worthiness should always be character."
> 
> And of course, in YOUR estimation, a woman should be judged by her adolescence for the rest of her life....


Well, if she (or he, for that matter) picked up a blood panel of STDs along the way........then yes.


----------



## sokillme

personofinterest said:


> "the most important gauge of a person's worthiness should always be character."
> 
> And of course, in YOUR estimation, a woman should be judged by her adolescence for the rest of her life....


When did I say that? I think the jury is out. I personally don't think OP is even in a position to judge, because most of his problems seem to be coming from retroactive jealousy. Until he gets an handle on that he won't be thinking clearly. 

Besides that I would give the same advice above to anyone thinking of getting married. I am SO in love is not a good reason. 

Do you post here to give advice or criticize other posters you don't agree with?


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> First off I am not sure how long you have been dating but YOU at least still have some issues to deal with. Besides that if it's meant to be she will still be there in a year or however long it takes you to work on these things.
> 
> Yes there is always a risk of cheating however all it takes is reading on these sites to see past history can be a precursor to future behavior. So some people are more risk then others.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you would be wrong. As far as I can tell People who use sex as a way to validate their worth are probably the most dangerous people to marry. I believe people with strong boundaries are the safest people, when it comes to cheating. We all have the same desires but having boundaries and a plan in place ahead of time even when those feelings happen suddenly is really what you should be looking for in a mate.
> 
> It's very rare the curiosity is the motive for cheating, and if it is you married very very badly.
> 
> There is also money, kids, planing, how you argue, how you keep house, what your priorities are, future goals, off the top of my head.
> 
> Love is a terrible reason to get married when that is the only reason.


Her past behavior includes zero cheating so I agree with you there that her past of no cheating probably means no future cheating.
I have studied and personally been involved with many cases of infidelity over the years and their really is no marker you can point your finger at when it comes to past partner count.

Data does not support your assertion that OP is wrong concerning number of partners alone as an indicator.

There are cases where a woman married as a virgin and went years, even decades, before running off to Miami while her husband watched the kids, to get her brains banged out by a guy she met online. True story.

Love is not the only reason if you read OP's posts. You would know that they have love, and a lot more going on as well as the fact they have been together for at least 2 years.


----------



## ConanHub

personofinterest said:


> "the most important gauge of a person's worthiness should always be character."
> 
> And of course, in YOUR estimation, a woman should be judged by her adolescence for the rest of her life....


I agree. Her character has never been in question.

The only issues are OP's feelings about some of her past decisions, which she has overcome and left behind, and her insecurities about his marriage.

Her character is actually remarkable. So I agree with SKM. This woman is obviously a fantastic choice!😁:grin2:


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> Her past behavior includes zero cheating so I agree with you there that her past of no cheating probably means no future cheating.
> I have studied and personally been involved with many cases of infidelity over the years and their really is no marker you can point your finger at when it comes to past partner count..


I never said anything about his girlfriend or partner count. I said usually people who cheat are looking for some type of affirmation, and in the context of sex which his bored comment was I would be more worried about someone who gets their self worth from sexual attention. 

I absolutely don't agree with you that there is no marker. I think many times there are plenty of red flags. I think cheating without red flags is the rare exception, I just thing most BS are not experienced enough to pick them out. If I hadn't been reading on here for years I am not sure I would be able to pick them out. But there is a reason why they call it the cheaters hand book. There are some pretty strong tells though. 

As for OP's relationship if you notice my point to him was he shouldn't get married to he has his feelings in check as far as his retroactive jealousy.

As they stand right now they don't seem like they are at the point they should be considering marriage no matter how he feels. That's as much for her as for him.


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> I never said anything about his girlfriend or partner count. I said usually people who cheat are looking for some type of affirmation, and in the context of sex which his bored comment was I would be more worried about someone who gets their self worth from sexual attention.
> 
> I absolutely don't agree with you that there is no marker. I think many times there are plenty of red flags. I think cheating without red flags is the rare exception, I just thing most BS are not experienced enough to pick them out. If I hadn't been reading on here for years I am not sure I would be able to pick them out. But there is a reason why they call it the cheaters hand book. There are some pretty strong tells though.
> 
> As for OP's relationship if you notice my point to him was he shouldn't get married to he has his feelings in check as far as his retroactive jealousy.
> 
> As they stand right now they don't seem like they are at the point they should be considering marriage no matter how he feels. That's as much for her as for him.


Well I will wager my two plus decades of actual experience over your opinion obtained from reading here.

OP doesn't have retroactive jealousy either. He isn't jealous nor does he feel inferior or threatened by any of her previous partners.

I believe they are a solid couple with better than average odds of making it.

I also don't know why you are bringing up cheating as neither the OP or his gf have ever cheated and cheating was never a concern for the OP.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> Well I will wager my two plus decades of actual experience over your opinion obtained from reading here.
> 
> OP doesn't have retroactive jealousy either. He isn't jealous nor does he feel inferior or threatened by any of her previous partners.
> 
> I believe they are a solid couple with better than average odds of making it.
> 
> I also don't know why you are bringing up cheating as neither the OP or his gf have ever cheated and cheating was never a concern for the OP.


Then why did he post here?


----------



## MyRevelation

Ahhh ... to be young and in a ***** coma!!!

Some guys blow right through red flags and insist on learning things the hard way.

This message is brought to you by the voice of experience.


----------



## MyRevelation

sokillme said:


> Then why did he post here?


Exactly, if OP were being honest with us (and himself), he’d admit that something in his gut caused him to search out and post on a relationship site.


----------



## Talk2Me

ConanHub said:


> Well I will wager my two plus decades of actual experience over your opinion obtained from reading here.
> 
> OP doesn't have retroactive jealousy either. He isn't jealous nor does he feel inferior or threatened by any of her previous partners.
> 
> I believe they are a solid couple with better than average odds of making it.
> 
> I also don't know why you are bringing up cheating as neither the OP or his gf have ever cheated and cheating was never a concern for the OP.


I agree with this 100%. She not a cheater AT ALL.... No idea why everyone keeps bringing up cheating. I'm not at all concerned about this even a little bit. Yes, there is a risk of her or me cheating as there is in 100% of every single relationship. Chris Rock said it best "we are only as faithful as our options." Not that I truly agree with that it is a risk in any and every relationship no matter how perfect it may seem to be.

My issue is some of her past decisions. That's really it. I'm focused on living in the now as things are amazing. I love her like I've never loved anyone before in my life. I'm happy whenever she is around and still get excited when she messages me or comes home. We have a ton of chemistry both emotionally and sexually. We share common interests yet have our own things we do separately. I'm not thrilled about some of her past but I'm sure if she knew everything I've done she would prob. feel the same way in some regard.

Some people here are trying to say she's hiding things but she has absolutely no reason to. She's been open about everything and that's a good and bad thing. When we first met she was up front that she didn't want a boy friend or any serious relationship. However, after just a few weeks of dating we had a strong bond and quickly realized we both wanted to be in a relationship with each other. I had just left a long term marriage and didn't want to settle down. We met and that quickly changed. Some people have said to me she was a rebound but it's nothing like that at all. I can't describe it but I'm happy.


----------



## ConanHub

MyRevelation said:


> Ahhh ... to be young and in a ***** coma!!!
> 
> Some guys blow right through red flags and insist on learning things the hard way.
> 
> This message is brought to you by the voice of experience.


He isn't a kid and seems to be very aware.

What red flags has she demonstrated in the two years they have been together?

I have a voice of experience as well and I'm getting a different take on this.


----------



## MyRevelation

ConanHub said:


> He isn't a kid and seems to be very aware.
> 
> What red flags has she demonstrated in the two years they have been together?
> 
> I have a voice of experience as well and I'm getting a different take on this.


This woman has FOO issues out the whazoo ... she was sexually active from a VERY early age ... and she has a history of promiscuity.

The past two years are nothing compared to her overall body of work. I married a woman with a similar past and things were great for about 5 years before she returned to her true form.

Stack all that with OP’s gut telling him to tread lightly and there is obvious reason for concern.

From reading OP’s posts, he’s obviously ignoring the advice here in addition to his own internal warning system ... in favor of beauty and hot sex ... happens all the time. It’s where XW’s come from.


----------



## ConanHub

MyRevelation said:


> This woman has FOO issues out the whazoo ... she was sexually active from a VERY early age ... and she has a history of promiscuity.
> 
> The past two years are nothing compared to her overall body of work. I married a woman with a similar past and things were great for about 5 years before she returned to her true form.
> 
> Stack all that with OP’s gut telling him to tread lightly and there is obvious reason for concern.
> 
> From reading OP’s posts, he’s obviously ignoring the advice here in addition to his own internal warning system ... in favor of beauty and hot sex ... happens all the time. It’s where XW’s come from.


Thanks for sharing your take on it.

If she hadn't dealt amazingly with her FOO issues, I would be a bit more in favor of caution like you.

She totally dealt with them before meeting OP, had her life on remarkably solid ground without anyone being involved with her, she does not need OP at all as far as personal and professional success goes and has been brutally honest when she could have easily fudged her info.

My wife had FOO issues and has been a great spouse. We don't even really want to get into my past because there are enough nightmares in the world already and most would rate me a very successful husband.

FOO issues are real threats if not dealt with appropriately. We dealt with ours and succeeded. It certainly looks like OP's girlfriend dealt with hers before they even met over two years ago.

I absolutely get your concern and I don't think it is unfounded. I also think this woman already hammered that crap out.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Talk2Me said:


> I agree with this 100%. She not a cheater AT ALL.... No idea why everyone keeps bringing up cheating.


A little TAM history lesson -- given the participant history it could be called the EVERYONE IS A CHEATER board. Ignore would be my advice.


----------



## personofinterest

> she was sexually active from a VERY early age


You mean when she was *RAPED *at 11?


God, you cannot possibly be that obtuse and jaded.


----------



## ConanHub

personofinterest said:


> You mean when she was *RAPED *at 11?
> 
> 
> God, you cannot possibly be that obtuse and jaded.


I'm actually getting tired of correcting people and repeating myself.

This is the Twilight Zone.


----------



## personofinterest

ConanHub said:


> I'm actually getting tired of correcting people and repeating myself.
> 
> This is the Twilight Zone.


Sometimes you have to consider the source and the baggage I guess. I really don't know how anyone could be clueless enough to think a girl WANTED sex at 11! I don't care how many supposed middle school parties are the stuff of urban legend.


----------



## Deejo

So, the gentleman came here and posted what appear to be at face value, some relatively mild concerns about where this relationship is going, based on his awareness of where it has been ... before he was in the picture. It's moving toward marriage. That can make anyone a little anxious.

I like to think that many of the posts in this thread have resolved him to believe that he's just fine, she's just fine, and how thankful he should be that his relationship isn't at all reflective of some of the experiences that have been shared here.

See? This is how we help.

And we love happy endings.

Not Robert Kraft happy endings necessarily.

And remember, "We're not happy, until you're not happy."

For Talk2Me, I've indicated I'm remarried. My wife was married 3 times previously. That in itself I'm sure would send most men running, or eliminate her as a potential wife or long term partner. 
I have no hesitation and no reservations. Call it arrogance on my part (I'm good with that) but I know I'm the right guy. I know it, cold. And I know she is the right woman. We are 5 years in, 1 married. She demonstrates to me every day that I made a good decision. I try to do the same.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> So, the gentleman came here and posted what appear to be at face value, some relatively mild concerns about where this relationship is going, based on his awareness of where it has been ... before he was in the picture. It's moving toward marriage. That can make anyone a little anxious.
> 
> I like to think that many of the posts in this thread have resolved him to believe that he's just fine, she's just fine, and how thankful he should be that his relationship isn't at all reflective of some of the experiences that have been shared here.
> 
> See? This is how we help.
> 
> And we love happy endings.
> 
> Not Robert Kraft happy endings necessarily.
> 
> And remember, "We're not happy, until you're not happy."
> 
> For Talk2Me, I've indicated I'm remarried. My wife was married 3 times previously. That in itself I'm sure would send most men running, or eliminate her as a potential wife or long term partner.
> I have no hesitation and no reservations. Call it arrogance on my part (I'm good with that) but I know I'm the right guy. I know it, cold. And I know she is the right woman. We are 5 years in, 1 married. She demonstrates to me every day that I made a good decision. I try to do the same.


You were gone for awhile. I am glad you are back.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> You were gone for awhile. I am glad you are back.


Appreciate that.


----------



## MyRevelation

personofinterest said:


> You mean when she was *RAPED *at 11?
> 
> 
> God, you cannot possibly be that obtuse and jaded.


OK, have it your way ... she’s a victim of childhood sexual abuse that led to her promiscuity. 

She still has ISSUES that make her long term viability as a faithful marital partner questionable, regardless of how you label the cause of those issues.

Like I posted previously ... it may not be a dealbreaker for OP, and apparently it’s not, if you believe his words over his actions. 

He asked for advice based on the experiences of others, and he got it. 

I’ll admit to my cynicism, if you’ll admit to your misandry.


----------



## Talk2Me

ConanHub said:


> He isn't a kid and seems to be very aware.
> 
> What red flags has she demonstrated in the two years they have been together?
> 
> I have a voice of experience as well and I'm getting a different take on this.


EXACTLY...... I'm 43 years old so I'm not at all A KID.... I have a lot of experience including long and short term relationships. A 16 year relationship etc..... In the past 2 years she really hasn't done anything to make me question anything about our relationship.


----------



## personofinterest

> I’ll admit to my cynicism, if you’ll admit to your misandry.


Why don't you head on over to the MGTOW thread and learn some things about me.

I do not hate men at all. I think men are awesome.

But men like you make me sad....

Signed,

A happy survivor of sexual abuse who loves her wonderful husband and the men in her life, who was raised a daddy's girl with lots of love and who managed to become a productive member of society. Who has also been betrayed but didn't CHOOSE to define all penises by the one man.


----------



## Talk2Me

MyRevelation said:


> OK, have it your way ... she’s a victim of childhood sexual abuse that led to her promiscuity.
> 
> She still has ISSUES that make her long term viability as a faithful marital partner questionable, regardless of how you label the cause of those issues.
> 
> Like I posted previously ... it may not be a dealbreaker for OP, and apparently it’s not, if you believe his words over his actions.
> 
> He asked for advice based on the experiences of others, and he got it.
> 
> I’ll admit to my cynicism, if you’ll admit to your misandry.


What issues does she still possess? I would love to hear them. She is very successful with her career and is the most loving person I've ever met. Some of her past totally sucks but in the past 2 years what issues should I be concerned about? If she's never cheated on me or any other partner before in the past what makes her one to cheat now?


----------



## MyRevelation

Talk2Me said:


> What issues does she still possess? I would love to hear them. She is very successful with her career and is the most loving person I've ever met. Some of her past totally sucks but in the past 2 years what issues should I be concerned about? If she's never cheated on me or any other partner before in the past what makes her one to cheat now?


The issues are obvious ... just because she’s learned to deal with them for 2+ years doesn’t make them go away, but down deep you likely know this.

It’s why you posted this thread.

I’m really not trying to bust your balls. I really have BTDT. Some disagree ... but IMHO ... people don’t change who they are. I ignored the obvious red flags just like you’re doing and it took a huge bite out of my ass.

Do what you want with my observations / warnings, but think about why my post is pissing you off.

When you were a boy, did you ever throw a rock at a roaming pack of dogs?

Did you notice that the one that yelped was the one you hit?

Something to consider over a couple of fingers of good bourbon. Good Luck to you.


----------



## ConanHub

MyRevelation said:


> The issues are obvious ... just because she’s learned to deal with them for 2+ years doesn’t make them go away, but down deep you likely know this.
> 
> It’s why you posted this thread.
> 
> I’m really not trying to bust your balls. I really have BTDT. Some disagree ... but IMHO ... people don’t change who they are. I ignored the obvious red flags just like you’re doing and it took a huge bite out of my ass.
> 
> Do what you want with my observations / warnings, but think about why my post is pissing you off.
> 
> When you were a boy, did you ever throw a rock at a roaming pack of dogs?
> 
> Did you notice that the one that yelped was the one you hit?
> 
> Something to consider over a couple of fingers of good bourbon. Good Luck to you.


This post doesn't even make sense.

I was a straight up wild man when I met my wife. I did not care if I lived and walked the edge of the blade.

I had carnal knowledge of at least 60 women and went to insane parties where wild happened.

I was feared and fearless.

I'm a 48 year old grandfather now, having been with my wife for almost 28 years. I am active but fairly cautious now, my idea of a good time is reading a good book and family activities and has been for decades.

I have not cheated or been cheated on by Mrs. Conan who had quite a few partners herself. She was the OW twice, was married twice before me, cheated in both her marriages and was 11 years my senior.

Looks pretty bad on paper?

You have to take everything in context and also understand people, how they grow and change as well as what was going on in their lives when they made bad choices.

Many men have envied my marriage. She has done almost all domestic chores in our marriage. While the kids were little, I never raised a hand to do anything in my house. Dinner was ready when I got home from work, the house was spotless and I never washed my own clothes or dishes.

She paid all the bills and balanced the checkbook. She would often make three different meals for me and my two sons every night.

Except for a brief hiccup, she has never denied me sex and initiates often.

She is grateful for our marriage and so am I. People can, and should, change.

Your one experience is not a universal truth. 

My first love absolutely shattered my heart for some pretty crappy reasons.

My second would slay dragons to keep me from being sad.

You are ignoring other evidence in favor of your personal experience.


----------



## [email protected]

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior!


----------



## jlg07

So, sorry to thread jack the thread jacks, but maybe this would help T2M:
https://www.retroactivejealousy.com/retroactive-jealousy-ocd/

"I'm not thrilled about some of her past but I'm sure if she knew" everything I've done she would prob. feel the same way in some regard."

So she told you all about HER past -- why have you not told her about yours? Seems like it would be the decent thing to do, and maybe help her with your marriage -- she may realize not to put that on a pedestal so much...


----------



## jlg07

@ConanHub, question for you which may help others here:

"She was the OW twice, was married twice before me, cheated in both her marriages and was 11 years my senior."

So SHE cheated with married men, and she also cheated on both of HER marriages. Obviously at some point in her past, she had little to no regard to marriage vows and the pain she would cause on others (her exHs and the POSOM's wives).

Can you relate to folks here what she did to figure this out and get past it in her life so that she is now a faithful wife to you?

I'm just curious what sort of counseling or whatever it was that she did to get past that part of her makeup and get to where she is now.

Please realize, I am NOT trying to dig at you or your wife -- sometimes things don't come through writing correctly and I don't want you to take any of this the wrong way. I am actually very interested to see how she overcame this, and others here may be also...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MyRevelation said:


> OK, have it your way ... she’s a victim of childhood sexual abuse that led to her promiscuity.
> 
> She still has ISSUES that make her long term viability as a faithful marital partner questionable, regardless of how you label the cause of those issues.
> 
> Like I posted previously ... it may not be a dealbreaker for OP, and apparently it’s not, if you believe his words over his actions.
> 
> He asked for advice based on the experiences of others, and he got it.
> 
> I’ll admit to my cynicism, if you’ll admit to your misandry.


What are the ongoing issues? 

And an accusation of misandry? Have you paid attention to any of POI's posts? She's as far from misandrist as anyone on this site, including all the men!


----------



## ConanHub

jlg07 said:


> @ConanHub, question for you which may help others here:
> 
> "She was the OW twice, was married twice before me, cheated in both her marriages and was 11 years my senior."
> 
> So SHE cheated with married men, and she also cheated on both of HER marriages. Obviously at some point in her past, she had little to no regard to marriage vows and the pain she would cause on others (her exHs and the POSOM's wives).
> 
> Can you relate to folks here what she did to figure this out and get past it in her life so that she is now a faithful wife to you?
> 
> I'm just curious what sort of counseling or whatever it was that she did to get past that part of her makeup and get to where she is now.
> 
> Please realize, I am NOT trying to dig at you or your wife -- sometimes things don't come through writing correctly and I don't want you to take any of this the wrong way. I am actually very interested to see how she overcame this, and others here may be also...


This is where context comes into play about why people make bad decisions.

First and foremost, I am radically different from anyone in her past. I wasn't anybody to mess with and I always played it straight myself.

Her two times as an OW were both with men much older than her and both were in positions of power over her. She still feels like hell over her bad decisions but I only feel bad for her.

The first man was a 40 something deacon in her church and took her virginity when she was 18. She had no one looking out for her and believed his line of bull ****.

The second was a man she worked for as a nanny. She was 19 and he took advantage of her weak financial position and his power over her.

Her first husband cheated on her openly and after she kicked the OW's ass and sent her packing in tears, she eventually stopped caring and cheated herself. That marriage lasted two years.

Her next marriage was to a narcissist who was schizophrenic and a substance abuser but he was a genius manipulator.

She was married to him 8 years and really tried. She finally left when their son was being endangered by the people he was involving them with. He tried to bring his mistress to live with them and she wasn't having it.

After a while she stopped trying and had a brief fling with a guy who treated her nice.

Mrs. Conan is basically a really nice girl with some steel in her spine if you push her to far.

She will give as good as she gets.

She grew up really rough and life handed her trouble from the time she was 12 and her idiot mother left her father for a criminal.

She never went to counseling. We talked about our issues and worked through them together. I got into ministry fairly early in our marriage and became a counselor with her going through training with me so maybe that helped.

Some people have hell handed to them in life and they can choose to live through it and gain control over their lives when they can or continue to be victims or simply die or end it themselves.

We both grew up through a good amount of insanity.

I have never even shared the worst with Mrs. Conan because it is straight out of nightmares and she would hurt for me.

Children that I use to play with didn't make it to kindergarten and some are mentally ill or criminals today. Both of my sister lived but are very unwell mentally and emotionally.

My wife and I gave each other a first look at something real and we held to each other like our lives depended on it.

Maybe our lives did.


----------



## sokillme

Talk2Me said:


> Some people here are trying to say she's hiding things but she has absolutely no reason to. She's been open about everything and that's a good and bad thing. When we first met she was up front that she didn't want a boy friend or any serious relationship. However, after just
> a few weeks of dating we had a strong bond and quickly realized we both wanted to be in a relationship with each other. I had just left a long term marriage and didn't want to settle down. We met and that quickly changed. Some people have said to me she was a rebound but it's nothing like that at all. I can't describe it but I'm happy.


I am not saying any of that. I am saying be sure. Meaning be sure about her, and be sure about you. SHE deserves that too. Again be sure you are not going to look at her like damaged goods. Spouses deserve to be cherished. 

And besides the sex stuff be sure about the other stuff I posted.

Money, life goals, communication, how you fight, how you live together, all of that stuff. 

Lots of marriage is about the day to day stuff. Do you leave the living room a mess. When you are mad how do you react. 

Be sure about that. 

I am also not saying you shouldn't be happy. I am saying use this time to learn the other things and see how you fit. 

And that is all I am saying.


----------



## jlg07

TY @ConanHub -- yes you are right, context IS everything. Very sorry for the crap you both went through.
Her DEACON of all people -- what a POS he was.


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> I have a wonderful, secure, manly husband. He knows I was raped at 12. He would never say "POI started having sex at 12" because he's not an ass.
> 
> I was a virgin when I married (yeah yeah go ahead and tell me no I wasn't cause of the rape).
> 
> After my divorce I did date some before my husband. He knows this.
> 
> I'm thankful he didn't pigeonhole me as some permanently damaged goods.
> 
> OP, this is obviously too much for you. And you are who you are.
> 
> Just do the right thing and break up. There are probably virgins out there who are naturally good at sex or less experienced women whose past won't be an issue.
> 
> Don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole just because you like having a hot girlfriend.
> 
> That isn't fair to either of you.
> 
> And dont just use her for fun. That suggestion was devoid of class and character.


I doubt if anyone would worry if their partner had been raped, that was clearly beyond their fault. You then went on to not have sex till you married first time round.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a wonderful, secure, manly husband. He knows I was raped at 12. He would never say "POI started having sex at 12" because he's not an ass.
> 
> I was a virgin when I married (yeah yeah go ahead and tell me no I wasn't cause of the rape).
> 
> After my divorce I did date some before my husband. He knows this.
> 
> I'm thankful he didn't pigeonhole me as some permanently damaged goods.
> 
> OP, this is obviously too much for you. And you are who you are.
> 
> Just do the right thing and break up. There are probably virgins out there who are naturally good at sex or less experienced women whose past won't be an issue.
> 
> Don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole just because you like having a hot girlfriend.
> 
> That isn't fair to either of you.
> 
> And dont just use her for fun. That suggestion was devoid of class and character.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt if anyone would worry if their partner had been raped, that was clearly beyond their fault. You then went on to not have sex till you married first time round.
Click to expand...

 So you believe in redemption like a good little Christian, you just want to make sure we segregate those formerly dirty people. I hope you understand that you are nothing like Jesus.


----------



## Talk2Me

jlg07 said:


> So, sorry to thread jack the thread jacks, but maybe this would help T2M:
> https://www.retroactivejealousy.com/retroactive-jealousy-ocd/
> 
> "I'm not thrilled about some of her past but I'm sure if she knew" everything I've done she would prob. feel the same way in some regard."
> 
> So she told you all about HER past -- why have you not told her about yours? Seems like it would be the decent thing to do, and maybe help her with your marriage -- she may realize not to put that on a pedestal so much...


I've answered everything she wants to know. She asks about my previous marriage and she def. has Retroactive Jealousy from it. I get it because it was a 16 year relationship. She wonders if I think of my ex because we spent so long together. She's asked about girls before that and obviously about my sexual past. Our pasts are greatly different but as they say opposites attract. Our focus has been on just us and we've been building a strong bond.

We just got back from a cruise 2 weeks ago that was absolutely amazing. Tonight we are going into a major city somewhat near us to a steak house. We went on vacation last summer and found a steak house that was absolutely amazing and then realized they have one near us so we are going back tonight. We are then going to a comedy show and to an expensive hotel. We get dressed up on these nights and put effort into what each other wants. I don't know many couples that do this on a somewhat regular basis.


----------



## Talk2Me

sokillme said:


> I am not saying any of that. I am saying be sure. Meaning be sure about her, and be sure about you. SHE deserves that too. Again be sure you are not going to look at her like damaged goods. Spouses deserve to be cherished.
> 
> And besides the sex stuff be sure about the other stuff I posted.
> 
> Money, life goals, communication, how you fight, how you live together, all of that stuff.
> 
> Lots of marriage is about the day to day stuff. Do you leave the living room a mess. When you are mad how do you react.
> 
> Be sure about that.
> 
> I am also not saying you shouldn't be happy. I am saying use this time to learn the other things and see how you fit.
> 
> And that is all I am saying.



Yes, we've been living together the majority of our relationship. When I got divorced I moved into the apartment below hers and we never spent a night apart. When her lease was up she moved downstairs and we then got a townhouse last year. The day to day we have. We do all the household chores, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, planning etc.

Also, you refer to marriage the way you do like I am naive. I was married for 13 years this is not my first rodeo. I know what it's like to put effort into making a marriage work and not get stale. Hell, I went to marriage counseling ALONE because my ex wife wouldn't go.

I also cherish my g/f as if she is gold. I give her the love, attention, and support she could ever want. I'm the shoulder to cry on when she needs, the punching bag if she needs, and the moral support she needs if that comes up. 

Yes, our sex life is unreal. To the point that I never thought it was possible to have something like this. However, our life outside of sex is even better. We touch each other every day such as rubbing each others arms and backs and head. We shower (non-sexually) every single night together. We hold hands when we are out. We kiss dozens of times a day etc etc etc.


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## personofinterest

"When I got divorced I moved into the apartment below hers and we never spent a night apart."

So does this mean you started dating while still married?


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## Talk2Me

HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT MOST HERE HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED:

She is a Board Certified Behavioral Analyst with her Masters Degree and getting ready to start her PhD program. SHE understands human behavior better than 99% of the population. She knows people only do things for 4 reasons. She has analyzed herself more than anyone else. She said this has helped her cope with her decisions and get beyond them.

Some of the people on here are ruthless. They think everyone needs to be a virgin until marriage. The prob. expressed those views to their current partners and their partners lied to them about their pasts. I would much rather someone be honest with me from the start instead of finding out the dirt later in life.


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## personofinterest

Talk2Me said:


> HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT MOST HERE HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED:
> 
> She is a Board Certified Behavioral Analyst with her Masters Degree and getting ready to start her PhD program. SHE understands human behavior better than 99% of the population. She knows people only do things for 4 reasons. She has analyzed herself more than anyone else. She said this has helped her cope with her decisions and get beyond them.
> 
> Some of the people on here are ruthless. They think everyone needs to be a virgin until marriage. The prob. expressed those views to their current partners and their partners lied to them about their pasts. I would much rather someone be honest with me from the start instead of finding out the dirt later in life.


You might need to breathe a little. You've crossed over from assertiveness to bullying and being a jerk.

BTW, I'm on YOUR side. I think those who dismiss your GF out of hand due to the past are just cycling out their own baggage and jaded BS


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## NobodySpecial

Talk2Me said:


> HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT MOST HERE HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED:
> 
> She is a Board Certified Behavioral Analyst with her Masters Degree and getting ready to start her PhD program. SHE understands human behavior better than 99% of the population. She knows people only do things for 4 reasons. She has analyzed herself more than anyone else. She said this has helped her cope with her decisions and get beyond them.
> 
> Some of the people on here are ruthless. They think everyone needs to be a virgin until marriage. The prob. expressed those views to their current partners and their partners lied to them about their pasts. I would much rather someone be honest with me from the start instead of finding out the dirt later in life.


I hear you. It was pretty shocking to me when I first came here what a totally different world view folks can have on here. People can be, as you say, ruthless. I have offered opinions, from time to time, on subjects that I am experienced since DH and I are polyamorists. Unapologetic polyamorists. It is quite amazing how more people know from their lack of experience than I do from my actual experience! Such is what I think you have gotten here. Here, the leading experience is being cheated on. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

You gotten whatever information lead you to feel confident in your relationship. That is great! If I were you, I would not try to convince people of your way of thinking. Be happy. Stay and kabitz -- offer thoughts to others. And best of luck with your GF. She sounds lovely inside and out.


----------



## Talk2Me

personofinterest said:


> "When I got divorced I moved into the apartment below hers and we never spent a night apart."
> 
> So does this mean you started dating while still married?



I was legally separated but not divorced yet. The divorce took a year and wasn’t finalized until May of 2018. However, I wasn’t living with my ex wife. Hope this makes sense


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## MyRevelation

OP is trying much too hard to convince a group of cyber strangers that “he’s got this”, when, in reality, his overselling of the relationship just raises more red flags.


----------



## Talk2Me

NobodySpecial said:


> Talk2Me said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT MOST HERE HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED:
> 
> She is a Board Certified Behavioral Analyst with her Masters Degree and getting ready to start her PhD program. SHE understands human behavior better than 99% of the population. She knows people only do things for 4 reasons. She has analyzed herself more than anyone else. She said this has helped her cope with her decisions and get beyond them.
> 
> Some of the people on here are ruthless. They think everyone needs to be a virgin until marriage. The prob. expressed those views to their current partners and their partners lied to them about their pasts. I would much rather someone be honest with me from the start instead of finding out the dirt later in life.
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you. It was pretty shocking to me when I first came here what a totally different world view folks can have on here. People can be, as you say, ruthless. I have offered opinions, from time to time, on subjects that I am experienced since DH and I are polyamorists. Unapologetic polyamorists. It is quite amazing how more people know from their lack of experience than I do from my actual experience! Such is what I think you have gotten here. Here, the leading experience is being cheated on. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
> 
> You gotten whatever information lead you to feel confident in your relationship. That is great! If I were you, I would not try to convince people of your way of thinking. Be happy. Stay and kabitz -- offer thoughts to others. And best of luck with your GF. She sounds lovely inside and out.
Click to expand...

Thank you I appreciate it. It is funny how everyone jumped to cheating when I never even brought that up in any capacity. Haha

I hear you about your lifestyle. It may not be for others but if it works for you then that’s all that matters. We’ve gone to Swingers parties before (we aren’t Swingers but wanted to check out a sex club) and it was awesome. We didn’t share or anything but it was one of the best nights we’ve ever had. It’s all about being open minded and having fun and enjoying whatever makes you happy


----------



## Talk2Me

MyRevelation said:


> OP is trying much too hard to convince a group of cyber strangers that “he’s got this”, when, in reality, his overselling of the relationship just raises more red flags.


You’re right I don’t need internet strangers approval to be happy. Just find it crazy at what people here are saying. Just thought a group like this would be somewhat supportive


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## personofinterest

Eh, when people only pop in to express their hope that something is wrong, it's very telling.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Talk2Me said:


> You’re right I don’t need internet strangers approval to be happy. Just find it crazy at what people here are saying. Just thought a group like this would be somewhat supportive


I think that overall, the group has been quite supportive. Most of us have honed in on two key ideas:

1. She has been brutally honest with you about her past. If she was trying to deceive, or even minimize, she wouldn't have told you what she has told you, especially knowing the judgment it could lead to. Many of us see bravery and integrity here.

2. That her behavior toward you and respect for your relationship has been rock solid for two years now. Contrary to one opinion expressed on this thread, people are not generally able to "keep it together" for a duration of that length if there's something is still amiss. 

Some may still say there's still risk attached here, but there's risk in every relationship. The red flags appear to be in the past and the recent history, which is long enough to establish a solid pattern, is free of those red flags. 

Don't let a few naysayers commandeer your impression of this site as a whole. There've been plenty of posters, both male and female, who are seeing things like you do.

Personally, while acknowledging the risk, I would still add that a woman who has been through all this and come out the other side with her wits intact and her integrity solid, is likely to be a most exceptional woman indeed. Recognizing that can carry great reward.


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## sokillme

Telling you to be thoughtful and careful is being supportive.


----------



## ConanHub

Talk2Me said:


> HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT MOST HERE HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED:
> 
> She is a Board Certified Behavioral Analyst with her Masters Degree and getting ready to start her PhD program. SHE understands human behavior better than 99% of the population. She knows people only do things for 4 reasons. She has analyzed herself more than anyone else. She said this has helped her cope with her decisions and get beyond them.
> 
> Some of the people on here are ruthless. They think everyone needs to be a virgin until marriage. The prob. expressed those views to their current partners and their partners lied to them about their pasts. I would much rather someone be honest with me from the start instead of finding out the dirt later in life.


There is definitely some blatant blindness going on here and I apologise for the belligerent lack of relevance some posters are exhibiting as well as absolutely ignoring important facts from your posts to doggedly pursue a weird agenda.

BTW, when did you stop beating your wife?

Oh, you say you never did?

Ok. So when did you ACTUALLY stop beating her?....🙄


----------



## Deejo

ConanHub said:


> There is definitely some blatant blindness going on here and I apologise for the belligerent lack of relevance some posters are exhibiting as well as absolutely ignoring important facts from your posts to doggedly pursue a weird agenda.
> 
> BTW, when did you stop beating your wife?
> 
> Oh, you say you never did?
> 
> Ok. So when did you ACTUALLY stop beating her?....🙄


This made me chortle.


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## LeGenDary_Man

@Talk2Me

This link is appropriate for your situation, and how you feel: https://www.retroactivejealousy.com/girlfriends-past/

As for me! Yes, my partner's history was/is important to me. 

I am religious (moderate), and did not compromise on my 'core set-of-values' for self-gratification prior to my marriage. I was seeking a potential partner whose 'core-set-of-values' would match mine before tying the knot. Even though I had the opportunity to meet and interact with some beautiful and/or interesting girls from time-to-time but I was not in a rush. Fate smiled at me one day, and I met the right one for me. My (now) wife is a gem; numerous men were interested in her due to her qualities and values but I went extra mile to catch her attention and woo her LOL. 

I advice people to try to meet and observe family members, and friends, of your potential partner (woman) while courting her; you can learn a lot about your potential partner, her choices, her history, and what kind of company she keeps, from this kind of homework if you are able to fit in and play your cards right. 

In summation:

*Chemistry* versus *Compatibility*

Never rush into a relationship, and it is wise to meet numerous people to figure out the best one for you.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Regarding the references to the importance of compatibility vice mere chemistry, I dont think that changes the calculus here at all.

Compatibility is with who someone is, not who they were a decade ago.

And this couple has been together 2 years now, so it would seem they've cleared the "rushing into anything" hurdle.


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## personofinterest

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Regarding the references to the importance of compatibility vice mere chemistry, I dont think that changes the calculus here at all.
> 
> Compatibility is with who someone is, not who they were a decade ago.
> 
> And this couple has been together 2 years now, so it would seem they've cleared the "rushing into anything" hurdle.


Nope, it doesn't. 

It's like they read none of the OP's posts and just pontificate on the title.


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## oldshirt

I'm not sure why we're still having this discussion. 

I don't see this as a retroactive jealousy issue here at all. 

I don't think the OP is jealous or threatened or insecure about her past. I think he is just a little turned off by her past behavior and finds it kind of offends his sensibilities a little bit as his sexual values and mores back in those days was different than hers. Either he can deal with that or he can't. 

This isn't a cheating issue. Nothing he has said indicates she's a cheater or attention wh*re or anything. If at some point in the next 50 years she decides to cheat, she can, just like he can and just like anyone else. If you want guarantees that someone will never cheat, then maybe you should check into living in some other universe because cheating happens in this universe whether someone was the town tramp or a virgin church girl when the couple first met. 

As I said in one of my first posts to this thread, I think this comes down to can he love, honor, respect and cherish her the way a husband should knowing what he's knows about her past?

If the answer is yes, then he does not need to justify his choice to the church or his family or the village chieftans or to us. 

And if the answer is no, then neither one needs that torment or hassle and should simply move along. 

They're full grown adults and can make big boy and big girl decisions on who they want in their lives and how they want to live.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Talk2Me said:


> No offense but a woman of these “values” would most likely turn into a life long battle of sexual frustration


Which set-of-values?

Women are complex beings, and we cannot generalize about their sexuality.


----------



## Diana7

Talk2Me said:


> No offense but a woman of these “values” would most likely turn into a life long battle of sexual frustration


So because a women or man has strong moral values he wont be a good lover? You are SO wrong. So VERY wrong, and that is offensive towards those who have deliberately chosen not to have many or any sexual partners before marriage. 
The best and happiest marriages I know are between couples who didn't have sex before marriage. We have a great sex life, my husband has never had sex outside marriage. 

They don't wait because they don't like sex, on the contrary, they wait because they see it as very important. 

Having multiple one night stands/casual sexual partners in no way makes you good at sex.


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## Talk2Me

Can we NOT make this thread a religious thread. Not once did I post anything about religion. Religion in my eyes has ruined more sex lives than anything else. I am not a religious person and my thoughts on sex
are not impeaded on religion.


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## Livvie

Is the essence of the problem the fact that your girlfriend took money for sex in order to lessen student loans? Is that what's really bothering you?


----------



## Diana7

Mr.Married said:


> That's a good thing and there are many who can't say the same.
> 
> You I disagree on a few things but I'll give you credit for sticking up for what you believe in and the fact that it has worked out for you with your husband. 0


Thank you, I wasn't prepared to compromise this time. I would rather stay single than that.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MJJEAN said:


> Are you sure about that? It's entirely possible your views on your GF's past are actually influenced by religion. If you grew up in the US, for example, Christian values are all around. Including the socially prevalent standard/belief that a good girl is a pure girl and that's the kind of girl you want to bring home to mom and marry. It'd be almost impossible, considering how religious views have permeated society for generations, for your views not to be at least inadvertently influenced by religion.
> 
> 
> Most people aren't bothered to know their partner has had casual sex with a FWB or a few ONS's with people they met at a party or the pub/bar/club/disco. Yet most people would be bothered that their partner had sex for money. Why is that? *Why is casual sex ok, but casual sex with financial compensation is not?
> *
> I am very interested in your response because I honestly can't figure it out. The only difference I can see between casual sex and casual sex for money is the money and I don't "get" why money being involved makes it a problem.


That's a really good question. It does seem incongruous.

But I don't see it as a religion-influenced position. Religion would condemn all casual sex, whether or not money was exchanged.


----------



## personofinterest

Or.....we could just respect the OP and stop the thread jack....

Talk, how are thinking about all of this? Have you talked with your GF about your internal questions?


----------



## EleGirl

*STOP THE THREAD JACK. The OP has asked that this thread not be turned into a discussion of religion. Anyone who continues the thread jack will enjoy a few days off to contemplate their actions here.

Speaking as a moderator.

Ele*


----------



## Andy1001

Diana7 said:


> Having multiple one night stands/casual sexual partners in no way makes you good at sex.


Having lots of practice at anything makes you better at it. 
Especially sex.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Andy1001 said:


> Having lots of practice at anything makes you better at it.
> Especially sex.


Sometimes 

Or it can just cement bad habits and make them harder to overcome/correct. 

It's much harder to coach someone who already thinks he knows it all.


----------



## sokillme

personofinterest said:


> Or.....we could just respect the OP and stop the thread jack....


You were the one who brought up religion in the first place! :slap:


----------



## personofinterest

sokillme said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or.....we could just respect the OP and stop the thread jack....
> 
> 
> 
> You were the one who brought up religion in the first place! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/slap.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Slap" ></a>
Click to expand...

And because I have emotional intelligence, I understood when the OP said stop.

It's not rocket science.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Andy1001 said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having multiple one night stands/casual sexual partners in no way makes you good at sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Having lots of practice at anything makes you better at it.
> Especially sex.
Click to expand...

Depends.

A couple is likely to have ideal mix of compatibility and chemistry for each other *if* they feel strongly about each other, and emotions influence a woman's sexuality to large extent. 

Even if a couple started as virgins, they will get better at intimacy over time and eventually reach the stage I am alluding to - ideal mix of compatibility and chemistry for each other. This come down to the amount of effort a couple is willing to put into its relationship. Otherwise, grass is greener on the other side...

Sexuality is also an innate thing, to an extent. Any individual in a relationship has a starting point, and can establish his GAME early on. These matters are relative.

Compatibility is important consideration for lasting relationship IMHO. If your partner is beautiful but her actions (in the past and present) do not conform to your core-set-of-beliefs, then the chemistry [on its own] will not be enough - retroactive jealousy might surface at some point, and create problems between the couple. I see no point in guilt-shaming a partner after spending years with her, knowing her choices beforehand - does not works.

To each his own though. Some couples can pull through extreme situations, and this case is nothing. All the best to the thread starter.


----------



## Talk2Me

Livvie said:


> Is the essence of the problem the fact that your girlfriend took money for sex in order to lessen student loans? Is that what's really bothering you?


It's the exchange of money for sex. Everything else I can deal with. For whatever reason that crosses a line in the sand to some degree. 

She did explain that she went out with a total of 2 guys from the Sugar Daddy website. The first guy she went out with she went out twice. She said it was super super easy and the guy was nice but awkward. The didn't kiss or have sex or even discuss sex. He just wanted someone attractive to go out with. She said the money for both those dates was really good. The other guy then messaged her and it was a lot more money. She said she didn't want to do it but figured it would be easy and quick. She didn't realize how damaging it would be on her mentally after doing it. She said she did it two times over a two month period and that was the last time she ever used that site again.

I kind get it and if I was in a situation I needed the money and an attractive-ish woman wanted to pay me that much money to have sex with her I would undoubtably do it. Wouldn't be proud of myself but I'm pretty confident I would have done it. For whatever reason when a woman does it it is so much worse. haha


----------



## Talk2Me

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Sometimes
> 
> Or it can just cement bad habits and make them harder to overcome/correct.
> 
> It's much harder to coach someone who already thinks he knows it all.


My ex wife had a VERY limited sex life before we met. She was also brought up very religious (as my current gf was as well) so she had a ton of mental barriers when it came to sex. She didn't want to experiment much at all and when I tried to get her to it was like pulling teeth. She was mostly very vanilla which caused a lot of arguments etc. My current gf is pretty much open to try anything with me. We have fun, we experiment, we've done some crazy things. She open with what she likes and doesn't like but is willing to try anything once for the most part to see if she likes it or not.


----------



## Talk2Me

personofinterest said:


> Or.....we could just respect the OP and stop the thread jack....
> 
> Talk, how are thinking about all of this? Have you talked with your GF about your internal questions?


We talked a little about things this weekend but nothing too crazy. We went out Friday night and got into an argument that lasted until Sunday morning. This hasn't happened often but unfortunately it did this weekend. We talked a bit yesterday about what we both want and need out of this relationship so as much as the argument sucked I think it ultimately made things better. When she left for work this morning everything was good.


----------



## Talk2Me

I started re-reading a book I've read a few times in my life. It's called The Big Leap and it's a book that helps me a lot with my mindset in business and my personal life. Anyways, in the book the author talks a lot about us all having an Upper Limit Problem where we basically sabotage things (mostly subconsciously) when things are going well. We look for reasons to validate why we don't deserve certain things as far as money, relationships, happiness etc. This got me thinking that I think I was dwelling on things with my gf's past almost trying to find a way out because our relationship really is too good. In the past 2 years I've experienced happiness and love like I've never experienced before. I have someone I come home to that is always excited to see me. If she wakes up before me she will hold me and kiss me. When she gets up to pee in the middle of the night she always kissed me before going back to sleep. We have nearly the perfect relationship but some reason I want to sabotage it because of something that happened 5-15+ years ago.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Talk2Me said:


> I started re-reading a book I've read a few times in my life. It's called The Big Leap and it's a book that helps me a lot with my mindset in business and my personal life. Anyways, in the book the author talks a lot about us all having an Upper Limit Problem where we basically sabotage things (mostly subconsciously) when things are going well. We look for reasons to validate why we don't deserve certain things as far as money, relationships, happiness etc. This got me thinking that I think I was dwelling on things with my gf's past almost trying to find a way out because our relationship really is too good. In the past 2 years I've experienced happiness and love like I've never experienced before. I have someone I come home to that is always excited to see me. If she wakes up before me she will hold me and kiss me. When she gets up to pee in the middle of the night she always kissed me before going back to sleep. We have nearly the perfect relationship but some reason I want to sabotage it because of something that happened 5-15+ years ago.


Interesting thought. 

If that's what's going one, hopefully recognizing that helps you get past it. 

Please do not sabotage yourself. Leave your past in the past (just as you leave her past in the past). Just as important, know that by sabotaging yourself, you sabotage her as well. No matter how much you may subconsciously think you don't deserve, you can't let that negatively affect others. Man up for her sake as well as your own.


----------

