# I know, but she doesn't know that I do



## BlindsidedinVA

Most of the backstory is here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/67420-what-do-young-kid-involved.html

Short story:

Wife just returned from deployment, we had some rocky periods while she was gone, especially the last few months. I wasn't there to emotionally support her when she needed me because I was having my own misery to deal with and I was looking for support from her. She emotionally detached from me and I caught her flirting with a guy she me while deployed. Confronted her, she said it didn't mean anything and would end it. 

Fast forward 6 weeks when she gets home I find by looking through her phone that she's still messaging the guy and the chats get more explicit and imply things that had happened. I found an email she sent to him after she returned from deployment about the good times they had together and all the things she liked about him including the sexual horizons expansion. 

Find out from monitoring her chats that they are planning on hooking up again in about a month when she goes to visit her best friend in Florida and he's home on R&R as well as her making plans to return to the deployment site for a different friend's promotion ceremony. 

We've been on the rocks, yes but it feels like she came home just to burn down the house with me in it rather than try to work with me on what is going on. I'm going to my own therapy to work on my issues that she pointed out to help me grow into a better person and the changes will help me in the long run but I also feel like she's only really pushing for those changes so she doesn't feel as bad about leaving me when she decides she's given me "enough time" to change and doesn't see the results. 

I love her and care deeply about her but I don't know if i can recover from the infidelity, especially as it continues "under my nose"


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## Devonshire

I know how you feel.
It sucks.
How is it you havent confronted her? I asked my wife a million questions the instant I found something out. ..Of course she just lied about it and made it worse, but I can't imagine not saying anything.
Sorry for what you must be going through.


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## See_Listen_Love

> When she got home I could still sense the emotional detachment. She has said that I am _*overly dependent*_ on her and that she needs me to be an independent person before she can figure out if she still wants to be with me.


She wants out of the relation, you are 'needy' in her eyes.



> *We both came to the conclusion* that while we loved each other and cared for each others' well being that *we were not IN love with each other*, and we weren't sure how long it had been that way


. 

At least you are communicating, and came to the same conclusion.



> She says *she sacrificed* a lot of what she wanted because of our relationship and *not wanting to upset me* such as studying abroad in college or not going for a more operational billet when her orders came up for changes.


Sorry, but you are holding her back in her eyes, she thinks she is entitled to more, but you stand in the way.



> She said that *she doesn't think I can figure out what I want* or become an independent person while we are still together so she wants a separation


While this may be true, she sees you as a doormat, who won't act on his own initiative, it may be she uses this as a perfect excuse to go live with the AP or live on her on to promote her further career.

This is very sad. 

There are two kinds of posters in these situations, those following the advice given and acting, and those who will argue their heads of to prove the advice given is wrong and do nothing.

If you want your wife back, you have to follow the advice. Seen the cold situation, your chances are slim.


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## warlock07

Tell her that you know what she did and you will be filing for divorce. Don't fight, don't argue. . She treats you like sh!t because you allow her to. Expose what she did to her family, inform her CO about her adultery. If the other is married, inform his wife. Who am I fooling though ? You probably won't do it. t is obvious.

Say, would you do this if this will get your wife back ? You are a "nice" guy. You don't want to anger her. Which is also the exact reason she treats you like she does. Find your anger wherever you lost it.


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## Regga

How are you bottling the knowledge of her affair up?!?! Are you not screaming inside? 
You are going to be told to do the 180. You are dabbling your toes in the 180 by getting counseling. Good job for recognizing you need help: fantastic step. 
What was "on the rocks" like? How did that look?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BlindsidedinVA

Devonshire said:


> I know how you feel.
> It sucks.
> How is it you havent confronted her? I asked my wife a million questions the instant I found something out. ..Of course she just lied about it and made it worse, but I can't imagine not saying anything.
> Sorry for what you must be going through.


When I first found out I was holding out hope that we could work through things together and eventually reconcile. I didn't want to fly off the handle so I tried to remain calm and not say anything. I am meeting with my therapist on thursday, ironic Valentines' Day, and I will discuss this with him.


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## BlindsidedinVA

See_Listen_Love said:


> She wants out of the relation, you are 'needy' in her eyes.
> 
> .
> 
> At least you are communicating, and came to the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but you are holding her back in her eyes, she thinks she is entitled to more, but you stand in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> While this may be true, she sees you as a doormat, who won't act on his own initiative, it may be she uses this as a perfect excuse to go live with the AP or live on her on to promote her further career.
> 
> This is very sad.
> 
> There are two kinds of posters in these situations, those following the advice given and acting, and those who will argue their heads of to prove the advice given is wrong and do nothing.
> 
> If you want your wife back, you have to follow the advice. Seen the cold situation, your chances are slim.



I agree on all those accounts... I've tried to be supportive where I can but at this point I don't know if I have anything left to give which brought me here. We have a 2 year old son and I don't want him to remember us as fighting constantly.


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## BlindsidedinVA

warlock07 said:


> Tell her that you know what she did and you will be filing for divorce. Don't fight, don't argue. . She treats you like sh!t because you allow her to. Expose what she did to her family, inform her CO about her adultery. If the other is married, inform his wife. Who am I fooling though ? You probably won't do it. t is obvious.
> 
> Say, would you do this if this will get your wife back ? You are a "nice" guy. You don't want to anger her. Which is also the exact reason she treats you like she does. Find your anger wherever you lost it.



I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. Do I want to ruin her career? no, not at this point I'm not vindicative like that. As far as informing her family and friends...I've reached out to some close mutual friends about what is going on and they have all been pretty supportive of me. Honestly I just want her to come clean about everything rather than me forcing her to come out. Part of me holds out hope that we will reconcile, especially with our 2 year old son in the mix but the more I think about it the more I know that isn't likely to happen.

I'm angry, trust me I am. I had serious anger management issues in middle and high school and have since learned to control it and channel it elsewhere.


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## BlindsidedinVA

Regga said:


> How are you bottling the knowledge of her affair up?!?! Are you not screaming inside?
> You are going to be told to do the 180. You are dabbling your toes in the 180 by getting counseling. Good job for recognizing you need help: fantastic step.
> What was "on the rocks" like? How did that look?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm screaming for sure. I'm just not sure how I'm going to approach this with her yet. I'm an engineer by trade so I analyze and figure out the best approach after getting as many facts as I can. 

On the rock was a lot of bickering about little things from our past, arguing about respecting boundaries and needing space. The biggest thing I could point to was a significant drop in communication, emotional detachment and short fuses on both sides.


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## Viseral

Time to go 007 on her. VAR in the car, tracking device on her car, key logger on the computer, and phone records. Consider hiring some one to spy on her while she's in Florida banging her other man. 

Make a nice PowerPoint with all the audio, video, and tracking data. Send the PowerPoint to her family, the other man's wife/family.

Stay in your house, throw her belongings out on the street, change the locks, separate the finances, file for divorce.

End of story.


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## movingforward2013

The military does not look too kindly on adultery. Gather your evidence and expose her to everyone INCLUDING her Commanding Officer. Do it now! Then file for divorce. Will wake her right up out her fog.


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## movingforward2013

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. Do I want to ruin her career? no, not at this point I'm not vindicative like that. As far as informing her family and friends...I've reached out to some close mutual friends about what is going on and they have all been pretty supportive of me. Honestly I just want her to come clean about everything rather than me forcing her to come out. Part of me holds out hope that we will reconcile, especially with our 2 year old son in the mix but the more I think about it the more I know that isn't likely to happen.
> 
> I'm angry, trust me I am. I had serious anger management issues in middle and high school and have since learned to control it and channel it elsewhere.


She is a cheater. She isn't going to come clean until she is ready to leave you. Do not let her leave you first. Leave her and expose her cheating ways.


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## BlindsidedinVA

movingforward2013 said:


> She is a cheater. She isn't going to come clean until she is ready to leave you. Do not let her leave you first. Leave her and expose her cheating ways.


Yeah...well there was no indication she would have done anything like this until the end of the deployment. I am still gathering evidence as what I have so far is an explicit email and one chat conversation. There were more but I didn't think to copy or photograph the chats until recently.


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## alte Dame

BlindsidedinVA said:


> ...I also feel like she's only really pushing for those changes so she doesn't feel as bad about leaving me when she decides she's given me "enough time" to change and doesn't see the results.


You're a smart man. You see this common ploy when others miss it. People don't want to see themselves as bad people, as deceitful people. They lie themselves into a reality where there is justification for their actions. So she will say that she tried, but there was just no use with you.

She's in the fog with another man and you are inconvenient. Just file. Stand up for yourself, not to show her, but to show yourself and the rest of the world that you're worth more than this.


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## BlindsidedinVA

Viseral said:


> Time to go 007 on her. VAR in the car, tracking device on her car, key logger on the computer, and phone records. Consider hiring some one to spy on her while she's in Florida banging her other man.
> 
> Make a nice PowerPoint with all the audio, video, and tracking data. Send the PowerPoint to her family, the other man's wife/family.
> 
> Stay in your house, throw her belongings out on the street, change the locks, separate the finances, file for divorce.
> 
> End of story.


Aside from the key logger, The only thing I would be able to do at this point is to get a private eye to spy on her while she is in Florida. He is still deployed and will be in Florida for a couple of weeks of R&R when she is planning to be there.


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## BlindsidedinVA

alte Dame said:


> You're a smart man. You see this common ploy when others miss it. People don't want to see themselves as bad people, as deceitful people. They lie to themselves into a reality where there is justification for their actions. So she will say that she tried, but there was just no use with you.
> 
> She's in the fog with another man and you are inconvenient. Just file. Stand up for yourself, not to show her, but to show yourself and the rest of the world that you're worth more than this.


Thanks. Like I said I'm pretty sure that's where this is headed. I'm just trying to figure out when the best time to do it is. We are both part of a wedding at the end of February and again at the end of April. The wedding in April is actually her brother's wedding, so that will be quite awkward overall.


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## Hardtohandle

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I agree on all those accounts... I've tried to be supportive where I can but at this point I don't know if I have anything left to give which brought me here. We have a 2 year old son and I don't want him to remember us as fighting constantly.


Hes 2, he won't remember.


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## JustAnotherMan

So, after a 9 month deployment and rough times at home your wife gets to take a vacation by herself? 

Why are you not going to Florida with her? To her friends promotion with her? 

If she is going off on her own after just being deployed...well she deployed you permanently a looooong time ago.

Families don't often take separate vacations. Happy families even closer to never.


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## BlindsidedinVA

JustAnotherMan said:


> So, after a 9 month deployment and rough times at home your wife gets to take a vacation by herself?
> 
> Why are you not going to Florida with her? To her friends promotion with her?
> 
> If she is going off on her own after just being deployed...well she deployed you permanently a looooong time ago.
> 
> Families don't often take separate vacations. Happy families even closer to never.


Oh don't get me wrong, I suggested we go together and she was dismissive of it. Saying that it was a girls weekend though she was planning on taking our son too, since her friend has a kid about a year older than him, but they were planning on going to Tampa for Saturday night or Sunday night to celebrate the friends 30th, and leaving the kids with the friend's husband. As for going to the promotion ceremony, I said I wanted to go back down there too, to go scuba diving, since we had gone to visit back in October and she was kinda like...well I'm not sure if she was actually going to go, though I'm certain she is.


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## BlindsidedinVA

Hardtohandle said:


> Hes 2, he won't remember.


He might not remember the arguments specifically but he would have this sense that arguing and yelling is ok.


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## Hardtohandle

BlindsidedinVA

Listen to MEEEEEEE.. 
Read my story in my signature. But if you want I will give you the cliffsnotes..

I was a pu$$y like yourself and wanted to be all nice and try to show her the error of her ways. 

I did nothing that was expressed here and by my RL friends and family. Which was pretty much what people are saying here.

End result
My wife is leaving me with the 2 kids and moving in with a man my kids never met. Well at least not my oldest. But none of them want this either. 

I know its crazy, I know its hard to understand. 
This is cancer. It's marriage cancer and you need to fvcking get rid of it fast.

So you need to do what everyone is telling you.. 
The reasons your doing this is to shock her.. What will happen is she will get inundated with so much sh1t, she will not have the time to talk to this guy. Her mind will be busy trying to explain her actions to everyone. 

I am positive there are other military people here that have brought up adultery issues. That is something you can tell her either you go and tell or I will. It will sound better coming from you. This way the military will make sure they are NOT together or closely monitored. Trust me they don't want this either. 

How do I know that stuff ? because I read it in one of the threads here from someone in the military. 

Between the phone calls from family going WTF is going on and the military addressing this issue and you telling her here are divorce papers and here is the card to a marriage counselor, the appointment for the counselor is in 2 hours. Either your there or going to your own layer. Take care. 

But you need to be independent and not co-dependent on her. Again that was one of my faults. I became a 3rd kid to my wife. Granted not a reason for Adultery, but nonetheless it was her excuse. 

If you don't do this. She will drag you down a hole you will never, ever, never expect she would. Read pages maybe 4 to 7 on my thread to understand how cruel a person can be. I've been with my wife for 19 years and married 14. I would never expected her to become so evil.. NEVER, EVER, NEVER would I have expected.

There is a saying that is commonly said here. 

*You loved the person she was, not what she has become*

This woman your dealing with is killing your wife.. There will be a point where your wife will be gone and only this evil doppelganger will be left. Think invasion of the body snatchers. Because it really becomes that.

Listen I am telling you I fvcked up.. I don't want you to be me. I don't want anyone to be me.. The PAIN is almost unbearable. But there is NOTHING I CAN DO NOW.... 

Please, please, please don't be me. I am literally crying as I type this. Fight dirty and do whatever you have to get your fvcking family back and your wife back.. 

It really is role reversal now. Its opposite time. What you think is wrong is right.. 

This is WAR and its an EVIL WAR.. being nice will make you weaker. Trust me I'm a cop of 23 years and I let the biggest bad guy in my life get away with getting over on me. Trust me I've seen it all and heard it all. I made over 500 arrest in my career. I have had 2 partners killed in the line of duty. 

And with all my street skills I didn't see anything my wife was going to do or become, because I just couldn't believe she would do those things.


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## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> He might not remember the arguments specifically but he would have this sense that arguing and yelling is ok.


Talking form experience, I was separated for a year and my son was between 18 months and 2 years. They handle it better than we do, he would say bye bye daddy like nothing would happen and as if his dad never lived with him bc I was the primary caretaker (even though I also work). So do not worry about him, he will be better than you (I had a tough time understanding this until I saw it with my own eyes).

BTW, if she ever loved you she will not come back on her own untill she sees and feels the effects of her actions.


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## ArmyofJuan

Hardtohandle said:


> BlindsidedinVA
> 
> Listen to MEEEEEEE..
> Read my story in my signature. But if you want I will give you the cliffsnotes..
> 
> I was a pu$$y like yourself and wanted to be all nice and try to show her the error of her ways.
> 
> I did nothing that was expressed here and by my RL friends and family. Which was pretty much what people are saying here.
> 
> End result
> My wife is leaving me with the 2 kids and moving in with a man my kids never met. Well at least not my oldest. But none of them want this either.
> 
> I know its crazy, I know its hard to understand.
> This is cancer. It's marriage cancer and you need to fvcking get rid of it fast.
> 
> So you need to do what everyone is telling you..
> The reasons your doing this is to shock her.. What will happen is she will get inundated with so much sh1t, she will not have the time to talk to this guy. Her mind will be busy trying to explain her actions to everyone.
> 
> I am positive there are other military people here that have brought up adultery issues. That is something you can tell her either you go and tell or I will. It will sound better coming from you. This way the military will make sure they are NOT together or closely monitored. Trust me they don't want this either.
> 
> How do I know that stuff ? because I read it in one of the threads here from someone in the military.
> 
> Between the phone calls from family going WTF is going on and the military addressing this issue and you telling her here are divorce papers and here is the card to a marriage counselor, the appointment for the counselor is in 2 hours. Either your there or going to your own layer. Take care.
> 
> But you need to be independent and not co-dependent on her. Again that was one of my faults. I became a 3rd kid to my wife. Granted not a reason for Adultery, but nonetheless it was her excuse.
> 
> If you don't do this. She will drag you down a hole you will never, ever, never expect she would. Read pages maybe 4 to 7 on my thread to understand how cruel a person can be. I've been with my wife for 19 years and married 14. I would never expected her to become so evil.. NEVER, EVER, NEVER would I have expected.
> 
> There is a saying that is commonly said here.
> 
> *You loved the person she was, not what she has become*
> 
> This woman your dealing with is killing your wife.. There will be a point where your wife will be gone and only this evil doppelganger will be left. Think invasion of the body snatchers. Because it really becomes that.
> 
> Listen I am telling you I fvcked up.. I don't want you to be me. I don't want anyone to be me.. The PAIN is almost unbearable. But there is NOTHING I CAN DO NOW....
> 
> Please, please, please don't be me. I am literally crying as I type this. Fight dirty and do whatever you have to get your fvcking family back and your wife back..
> 
> It really is role reversal now. Its opposite time. What you think is wrong is right..
> 
> This is WAR and its an EVIL WAR.. being nice will make you weaker. Trust me I'm a cop of 23 years and I let the biggest bad guy in my life get away with getting over on me. Trust me I've seen it all and heard it all. I made over 500 arrest in my career. I have had 2 partners killed in the line of duty.
> 
> And with all my street skills I didn't see anything my wife was going to do or become, because I just couldn't believe she would do those things.


I second this.

The nicer you are, the worse things will be for you. Be an A-hole and drop the hammer hard on her. 

I've read hundreds of people's stories and the ones where the BS gets angry and knee-jerks straight to a D gets a remorseful WS every time. The nice guy gets taken advantage of.

You have to focus and you, she is the enemy right now so treat her as such until she comes back crawling on her hands and knees begging for you to forgive her. Your way or the highway and do not compromise.


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## Shaggy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I'm screaming for sure. I'm just not sure how I'm going to approach this with her yet. I'm an engineer by trade so I analyze and figure out the best approach after getting as many facts as I can.
> 
> On the rock was a lot of bickering about little things from our past, arguing about respecting boundaries and needing space. The biggest thing I could point to was a significant drop in communication, emotional detachment and short fuses on both sides.


Engineers like the perfect solution. They hold out until the bugs are identified and fixed. They analyze, they study, they design, they plan.

Engineers are great at engineering things, but they so often suffer from too many options and too much analysis.

Meanwhile she's getting her dopamine fix from continued contact with the OM and she's busy making plans for a sex weekend with him.

You need a plan that is thought through, but you also need to act.

Your choices are:

1.Let her cheat on you and do nothing.

2. Blow it up fast and hard well before the OM is going to be around and available for her to run to.

If you do this - you need to go for the shock and awe approach because you need to shock her out of the affair. You need to expose as others have told you.

You've already lost her to another man - this is the hail mary to end the affair. After the dust settles she might just wake up and come back to you, but it requires you to not pull back on exposure and play it only half way. You need the OM gone, otherwise there is no chance.

3. Blow is up fast and hard in FL. when she is with him. 

This is very dramatic, and you'll be free to follow her down there since she's taking your 2 yr old with her. 

The problem is the OM will be there to support her and she can run to him. The other problem is that between now and then she will be getting a huge fix of dopamine from him and will be very built up in her own head to be with him. So if you wait you have a very high barrier to overcome to get him out of the picture.

My advice is to nuclear with exposure of both her and the OM. Get him in trouble too with his CO for playing around with her.


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## Shaggy

Please listen to the painfully gained experiences of so many on this board. 

1. never ever reveal your sources of info. Every. She will demand proof - deny her that info. She's knows the truth and so do you. Her asking for proof is her trying to find out what you know so she can deny the rest, and how you found out so she can block you in the future.

2. YOU CAN'T NICE SOMEONE OUT OF AN AFFAIR. You're fighting the dopamine high they get from the OM. You're being nice just can't compete. You need to end all contact and let them get clean. Only then do you have a chance.

3. Hope is not a strategy.


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## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, I suggested we go together and she was dismissive of it. Saying that it was a girls weekend though she was planning on taking our son too, since her friend has a kid about a year older than him, but they were planning on going to Tampa for Saturday night or Sunday night to celebrate the friends 30th, and leaving the kids with the friend's husband. As for going to the promotion ceremony, I said I wanted to go back down there too, to go scuba diving, since we had gone to visit back in October and she was kinda like...well I'm not sure if she was actually going to go, though I'm certain she is.


I would not allow my 2 year old to go and stay with her friend's husband, but that is just me.


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## BlindsidedinVA

The question is, do I leave with my son? Or leave him there with her so she understands what it was like for 9months without her around to help.


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## Grey Goose

I would take my son, I would not feel she is in a good place to care for him, but only you know what kind of a mother she has been and more important, is being now. I am a very protective mother.


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## BlindsidedinVA

Grey Goose said:


> I would take my son, I would not feel she is in a good place to care for him, but only you know what kind of a mother she has been and more important, is being now. I am a very protective mother.


She is a great mother overall while he's awake. When he goes to bed is when the conversations with the OM pick up. I don't know what my real goal is for leaving him with her. If I left I would be 3.5 hours away so it would be hard to see him. Maybe making her realize how hard things are to take care of a kid by herself.


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## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Thanks. Like I said I'm pretty sure that's where this is headed. I'm just trying to figure out when the best time to do it is. We are both part of a wedding at the end of February and again at the end of April. The wedding in April is actually her brother's wedding, so that will be quite awkward overall.


This is just an excuse, if not then at least separateASAP!


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## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> She is a great mother overall while he's awake. When he goes to bed is when the conversations with the OM pick up. I don't know what my real goal is for leaving him with her. If I left I would be 3.5 hours away so it would be hard to see him. Maybe making her realize how hard things are to take care of a kid by herself.


Do not use your kid to teach her anything. Make sure you know what the most stable home would be for him and who is he used to. Try and focus on what is best for YOU and YOUR SON, let your wife do whatever she wants - that is not your problem anymore.


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## BlindsidedinVA

Grey Goose said:


> Do not use your kid to teach her anything. Make sure you know what the most stable home would be for him and who is he used to. Try and focus on what is best for YOU and YOUR SON, let your wife do whatever she wants - that is not your problem anymore.


I don't know what the most stable home will be right now. While she was deployed I went to live with my parents which is where I would probably go again so I know that he would be comfortable there. I just wish I could snap her out of the fog so she understands what she has done. Whether or not we reconcile.


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## JustGrinding

Man; I wonder how many other BS's wish they'd had access to the nuclear option of exposing through the military, seeing as how adultery is a punishable offense under the UCMJ? I know I'm raising my hand.

You’ve got an extremely effective affair-bashing tool at your disposal. I cannot believe you haven’t yet pulled the trigger by reporting your wife’s adultery to the Inspector General and her commander simultaneously.


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## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I don't know what the most stable home will be right now. While she was deployed I went to live with my parents which is where I would probably go again so I know that he would be comfortable there. I just wish I could snap her out of the fog so she understands what she has done. Whether or not we reconcile.


You can wish all you want BVA but she will not do it the nice way. My WH did not snap out of the fog until:

1. I confronted him
2. He saw the consequences of his actions
3. I showed him I did not need him and I could care for me and my son without him
4. I made him respect me
5. He spent time seeing what his life would be without us

I spent a year separated and just now in December did I agree to R (in between I cried a lot, lost 20 pounds, had to deal with my son and his developement issues all by myself, work and find my sanity again) after he has been begging for 5 months now and still things are very rocky emotionally. 

It will be hard and will be crazy, but this is the time to focus on you and your son - not her you have no idea nor control of what she will do.


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## warlock07

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. Do I want to ruin her career? no, not at this point I'm not vindicative like that. As far as informing her family and friends...I've reached out to some close mutual friends about what is going on and they have all been pretty supportive of me. Honestly I just want her to come clean about everything rather than me forcing her to come out. Part of me holds out hope that we will reconcile, especially with our 2 year old son in the mix but the more I think about it the more I know that isn't likely to happen.
> 
> I'm angry, trust me I am. I had serious anger management issues in middle and high school and have since learned to control it and channel it elsewhere.



So you would have no problem exposing it if it is not for revenge?


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## BlindsidedinVA

warlock07 said:


> So you would have no problem exposing it if it is not for revenge?


I want to be able to say to myself that I exposed it because it was for the best, not to hurt her. Right now if I exposed to her family and friends and command it would be vindictive. Like I said I will talk to my therapist on Thursday about what I should do and what is the right course of action. I know everyone's situation is different so there is no right answer but I just don't know how I'm going to do it yet.


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## Grey Goose

One last thing to consider.... I do no t know if exposing helps or not but I did not expose for the first 2 months of our separation and people felt the need to judge and make false accusations (mostly to me). His family thought he was perfect and started blaming me, when I could no longer take their comments I told them and then they decided to abandon me and my son.

On the exposing thing, do what you feel is right for your situation but take advantage of the experiences here - they mean well and can help you a lot.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

GG- thank you for sharing your insight, actually everyone thank you for sharing. This is obviously one of the hardest things to go through but I never realized that a community like this existed


----------



## Soifon

movingforward2013 said:


> The military does not look too kindly on adultery. Gather your evidence and expose her to everyone INCLUDING her Commanding Officer. Do it now! Then file for divorce. Will wake her right up out her fog.


I don't buy into this at all. The biggest cheater in my SO's unit is the CO. Unless she is higher up in rank no one cares. It's just one of those things that happens on deployments in their eyes. It's frowned upon but I've never seen anyone do anything about it, but again it depends on her rank. Your best bet is to tell the OM's wife or gf.

Edit: I should clarify, I mean going to the CO I don't think will do much of anything. But definitely expose to EVERYONE! Just don't expect her to get rank taken or anything like that.


----------



## alte Dame

The point of exposure is not vengeance.

The point is giving your marriage a chance by disrupting the affair.

Exposure is recommended by experts on infidelity.

If you are resigned to your M breaking up, by all means do not expose.

If you want a chance at saving your M, your only chance at this point is exposing.

The first step is exposing to her command. She will be angry, but if you pay attention to the standard experience, you will see that this is a phase that passes.


----------



## JustGrinding

I was in the process of responding to several points you'd made throughout your thread, then I got to this one:



BlindsidedinVA said:


> I want to be able to say to myself that I exposed it because it was for the best, not to hurt her. Right now if I exposed to her family and friends and command it would be vindictive. Like I said I will talk to my therapist on Thursday about what I should do and what is the right course of action. I know everyone's situation is different so there is no right answer but I just don't know how I'm going to do it yet.


You're enveloped just as deeply in your own fog as your adulterous wife is in hers. 

Good luck, BinVA.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Ironically she's a mental health professional. So she should know full and well what she is doing and her department will definitely know what this does to a family. I am thinking of confronting her about it first then going to her command rather than have them spring it her.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

JustGrinding said:


> I was in the process of responding to several points you'd made throughout your thread, then I got to this one:
> 
> 
> 
> You're enveloped just as deeply in your own fog as your adulterous wife is in hers.
> 
> Good luck, BinVA.


Thanks, I know I'm in my own fog too, I'm trying to figure out my way out of it.


----------



## bfree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I want to be able to say to myself that I exposed it because it was for the best, not to hurt her. Right now if I exposed to her family and friends and command it would be vindictive. Like I said I will talk to my therapist on Thursday about what I should do and what is the right course of action. I know everyone's situation is different so there is no right answer but I just don't know how I'm going to do it yet.


She is the mother to your child. Shouldn't she have morals? Shouldn't she know right and wrong? Exposing is not hurting her, its helping her....and by extension helping your child. People need to understand that there are consequences for everything they do. How can she teach your child this lesson if she never learns it herself?


----------



## Hardtohandle

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Thanks, I know I'm in my own fog too, I'm trying to figure out my way out of it.


BVA if you follow down this road of excuses your going to be telling us how nasty she ends up being to you in a few weeks. 

I know your punch drunk right now with shock and horror. But trust me it will become worse if you don't act fast. It really will be at the point of no return if you wait too long and I am talking 14 days too long. 

Have a friend come here and read this stuff.. Someone who could push you and say to you *"These people make sense, I know its crazy but it makes sense"*

The only way is your going to have to assault her mind with an overload of grief. She some shock to snap her out of it. 

Call the therapist today move up the appointment and ask him or her. I would NOT wait till thursday to see what is right to do. It really is that imperative that you act fast. I really cannot express this anymore then I have. 

Right now your in a whirlwind of sh1t and you need to put her in one of her own so she doesn't have the chance to lean on this guy for support. 

Right now it will be when the kid is asleep. She will start talking to this guy right in front of you in the upcoming weeks. 

Good luck, because at this moment in time I just feel you will be posting the same sh1t I am posting in the weeks to come.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Hardtohandle said:


> BVA if you follow down this road of excuses your going to be telling us how nasty she ends up being to you in a few weeks.
> 
> I know your punch drunk right now with shock and horror. But trust me it will become worse if you don't act fast. It really will be at the point of no return if you wait too long and I am talking 14 days too long.
> 
> Have a friend come here and read this stuff.. Someone who could push you and say to you *"These people make sense, I know its crazy but it makes sense"*
> 
> The only way is your going to have to assault her mind with an overload of grief. She some shock to snap her out of it.
> 
> Call the therapist today move up the appointment and ask him or her. I would NOT wait till thursday to see what is right to do. It really is that imperative that you act fast. I really cannot express this anymore then I have.
> 
> Right now your in a whirlwind of sh1t and you need to put her in one of her own so she doesn't have the chance to lean on this guy for support.
> 
> Right now it will be when the kid is asleep. She will start talking to this guy right in front of you in the upcoming weeks.
> 
> Good luck, because at this moment in time I just feel you will be posting the same sh1t I am posting in the weeks to come.


HTH-I know...I'm working on it. I called my therapist and left a message to move up the appointment. She messages him on her phone in front of me already if we are not doing anything important. I really don't want to have this blow up in front of our son but I don't know if I have a choice...


----------



## 3putt

BVA, if you're contemplating exposing to her superiors, this is how you should go about it. This was written by a former IG for the Army, so he's handled plenty of these cases.



Mortarman from MB said:


> If one or both of the infidels are members of the military, you have a GREAT asset! Why? Because it is against the law to commit adultery. And their command can and will order them to cease and desist...and me even punish them!
> 
> How do you do this? Well, each service is a little different. So, you will need to figure out which service they are a part of and then search out the corresponding agency that handles it. In the Army (and the Air Force), they have an Inspector General. The Navy/Marines should also.
> 
> The reason I say go to the IG, rather than the commander of the person's unit, is that many times, the commander might like the servicemember (SM) so they might just sweep it under the rug. That you do NOT want to happen! So, with the IG, they will go to the commander, tell him that they have this complaint...and the commander will conduct an investigation. The IG will oversee this, making sure that the commander does the right thing...and if a violation is found, that the appropriate actions/punishment happen. It will NOT be swept under the rug!
> 
> At the same time, even if ABSOLUTE proof is not found, at the very least, that commander is going order the SM to not contact your spouse...because the IG is hanging over their head. He/she will just tell them that even if nothing is going on, they are ordered not to make any more contact to make SURE nothing will go on!
> 
> So, as I said, the IG is the place to go.
> 
> When you call the IG, make sure you have at least the SM's name, his/her rank and unit, if you can get it. If you need help, ask someone you know that knows military rank and unit patches, and have them look at Facebook pictures or describe to them what their uniform looks like. Tell the IG everything you know. There are privacy protections...so you can give them info in confidence (one note: any information that directly implicates someone in an illegal act is not covered by privacy protections. Please understand that an IG is a Federal investigator!).
> 
> The IG will be adept at receiving these kinds of complaints, so will have additional questions for you. Answer them completely. If you dont know the answer, tell them you dont know. Or if you can get the answer, ask them if you should and get back to them.
> 
> Again, I cannot emphasize this enough...an IG is a Federal investigator. Which means, if you lie to them...there is jailtime and a huge fine. So dont do it! Tell them nothing but facts!!
> 
> At the end of the interview, the IG will advise you that they will pursue this...but they will not be able, sue to privacy rights, to let you know what the results of the investigation are. But you wont need them!!
> 
> Why? Because when that SM immediately stops contacting your spouse or contacts your spose and tells them they have been ordered not to see them anymore...then things will go nuclear. But that is the beauty of exposure. But unlike exposure in the civilian world, after exposure with a military member involved...well, no contact will be implemented immediately.
> 
> How do we know? Because if the SM is ordered not to see your spouse, and they do...then they have disobeyed a direct order. Then you call the IG, tell them contact continues. And there is almost nothing worse in the military than disobeying a direct order!! There WILL be criminal charges then!
> 
> So, do you research. Find out what unit they are in...or at least what post/base they are from. Then contact the unit of base/post IG. Do this at the same time that you do your exposure elsewhere (family, friends, etc).
> 
> Note: I wish that in the civilian world, there should be laws just like the military has.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

3putt said:


> BVA, if you're contemplating exposing to her superiors, this is how you should go about it. This was written by a former IG for the Army, so he's handled plenty of these cases.


Ugh...what I don't want is to ruin her career, especially if we were to reconcile. I could care less about his. All I really know about him is that he's a reservist out of Tampa and his name.


----------



## walkonmars

So you would rather she have a fine unblemished career - even if it means your marriage is destroyed?


----------



## tom67

If you want any chance of saving this marriage you have to expose to the co now. I f you want to divorce then do what you have been doing. You have gotten some sound advice here the rest is up to you!


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> If you want any chance of saving this marriage you have to expose to the co now. I f you want to divorce then do what you have been doing. You have gotten some sound advice here the rest is up to you!


Not to the CO, but the IG. Don't make this mistake, BVA.


----------



## 3putt

walkonmars said:


> So you would rather she have a fine unblemished career - even if it means your marriage is destroyed?


That does seems to be the question, eh?


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

walkonmars said:


> So you would rather she have a fine unblemished career - even if it means your marriage is destroyed?


obviously no..I would rather our marriage be salvaged.


----------



## warlock07

Think about it this way..Why do you think the army has these rules about infidelity? 

What kind of advice would she be giving people when she herself is being cruel to her family and making decisions like this:?


----------



## Chaparral

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I want to be able to say to myself that I exposed it because it was for the best, not to hurt her. Right now if I exposed to her family and friends and command it would be vindictive. Like I said I will talk to my therapist on Thursday about what I should do and what is the right course of action. I know everyone's situation is different so there is no right answer but I just don't know how I'm going to do it yet.


Unfortunately your wife sees these tendencies as weakness. That's why the OM hasinspired her. He would go bat **** crazy on a man messing with his woman. You, on thd other hand, can think of a million reasons to do nothing to rock thd boat.

This looks like another epic fail of nerve.


----------



## warlock07

Are you even angry that she is f*cking another guy while you are taking care of the kid ? And you are ready to take her back imediately if you can... Is separating from her even in your scheme of things ? 

OP, describe your relationship with your wife(before and after marriage)


----------



## tom67

Sorry but there is no nice approach to this. You have to take charge here and not be scared about this and be willing to end the marriage in order to save it. You should do this before she leaves jmo.


----------



## warlock07

chapparal said:


> Unfortunately your wife sees these tendencies as weakness. That's why the OM hasinspired her. He would go bat **** crazy on a man messing with his woman. You, on thd other hand, can think of a million reasons to do nothing to rock thd boat.
> 
> This looks like another epic fail of nerve.


He thinks he is being rational and the logical one when dealing with this. He thinks being "nice" to his wife is a positive trait. I hope he realizes what he is doing before it is too late.


----------



## crossbar

BlindsidedinVA said:


> obviously no..I would rather our marriage be salvaged.


Then you need to report this. Chances are (since he's a reservist) they're going to order them to stop all communication. If they violate that order, THEN they're going to destroy their careers. 

Point is, they are in violation of the UCMJ. This isn't anything new to them. They knew that it was wrong and NOT allowed in the military. This wasn't your fault. You didn't ask for this. They knew what they were doing and what order they were breaking and they did it anyway.

Report them, the sooner you do, the sooner it will be that they can't communicate any longer.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

yes I am angry. as I said before my anger management issues from my past have led me to channel my anger in other ways. I've almost picked up the phone and called my dad to come down with the SUV so I could move stuff out but I want to do that after I've confronted her. 

I don't know if I can take her back. I really don't have a clue where that stands. As far as separating I would rather not break up the family but it looks like that is going to happen either way so I want to do that on my terms. 

Our relationship:

Best friends since high school, started dating junior year, dated through out college, married a year after college. 

Over the years my own sense of self has melted away to a sense of us as a couple. I put my career on hold when she PCS'd to stay at home with our son who had some pretty significant medical issues when he was born. My own self worth seems to be derived from who I am in relation to her which is why I'm having such a hard time pulling this trigger. There isn't much else to say, I've been very focused on our relationship throughout, trying to do the nice thing here, or the nicer thing there.


----------



## bfree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Ugh...what I don't want is to ruin her career, especially if we were to reconcile. I could care less about his. All I really know about him is that he's a reservist out of Tampa and his name.


How in God's name are YOU ruining her career. SHE is the one actively breaking the rules NOT YOU! All you are doing is trying to save your family. Look at you! Scared to take action to save your family and keep your woman! You wonder why she is with another guy? My God man, there is another guy having sex with your woman! Why are you still debating this!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bfree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> yes I am angry. as I said before my anger management issues from my past have led me to channel my anger in other ways. I've almost picked up the phone and called my dad to come down with the SUV so I could move stuff out but I want to do that after I've confronted her.
> 
> I don't know if I can take her back. I really don't have a clue where that stands. As far as separating I would rather not break up the family but it looks like that is going to happen either way so I want to do that on my terms.
> 
> Our relationship:
> 
> Best friends since high school, started dating junior year, dated through out college, married a year after college.
> 
> Over the years my own sense of self has melted away to a sense of us as a couple. I put my career on hold when she PCS'd to stay at home with our son who had some pretty significant medical issues when he was born. My own self worth seems to be derived from who I am in relation to her which is why I'm having such a hard time pulling this trigger. There isn't much else to say, I've been very focused on our relationship throughout, trying to do the nice thing here, or the nicer thing there.


So you're doing the nice thing. What are you her girlfriend or her husband? This is not a time to be nice! This is a time to take action. She is in the military. He is in the military. Military = action. Not standing around feeling sorry for yourself. She will not respect you if you don't act now! NOW NOW!


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## BlindsidedinVA

working on the report. The Navy IG says they don't investigate unless its "The IG does not investigate allegations of adultery for other than senior officials and commanding officers (see Exception below) unless the offenders are in the same chain of command and have a supervisor/employee relationship, i.e., fraternization." so I don't think they will even investigate this as they are not in the same chain of command. I could check on the Army side though


----------



## bfree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> working on the report. The Navy IG says they don't investigate unless its "The IG does not investigate allegations of adultery for other than senior officials and commanding officers (see Exception below) unless the offenders are in the same chain of command and have a supervisor/employee relationship, i.e., fraternization." so I don't think they will even investigate this as they are not in the same chain of command. I could check on the Army side though


Who cares. Fire a shot across their bow. Make them see you mean business.


----------



## Soifon

BlindsidedinVA said:


> working on the report. The Navy IG says they don't investigate unless its "The IG does not investigate allegations of adultery for other than senior officials and commanding officers (see Exception below) unless the offenders are in the same chain of command and have a supervisor/employee relationship, i.e., fraternization." so I don't think they will even investigate this as they are not in the same chain of command. I could check on the Army side though


That's exactly what I was saying! The guy is in the reserves, trust me, no one cares!!! I know that sucks but that's just how it is. 

If you want to expose to people that she works with for the sake of exposing and making her life uncomfortable because people will be talking about her behind her back or giving her the cold shoulder, that's great, I agree with that. But this notion here that people will lose jobs or have severe consequences outside of their home and friends circle just isn't reality.


----------



## bfree

Soifon said:


> That's exactly what I was saying! The guy is in the reserves, trust me, no one cares!!! I know that sucks but that's just how it is.
> 
> If you want to expose to people that she works with for the sake of exposing and making her life uncomfortable because people will be talking about her behind her back or giving her the cold shoulder, that's great, I agree with that. But this notion here that people will lose jobs or have severe consequences outside of their home and friends circle just isn't reality.


He shouldn't care. Exposure to save his marriage and his family should be his only concern right now. If all that happens is she and her AP get completely embarrassed and become the topic du jour at the water cooler so be it. Make this affair as hard to conduct as possible. Whatever the outcome...so be it.


----------



## Machiavelli

Soifon said:


> I don't buy into this at all. The biggest cheater in my SO's unit is the CO. Unless she is higher up in rank no one cares. It's just one of those things that happens on deployments in their eyes. It's frowned upon but I've never seen anyone do anything about it, but again it depends on her rank. Your best bet is to tell the OM's wife or gf.
> 
> Edit: I should clarify, I mean going to the CO I don't think will do much of anything. But definitely expose to EVERYONE! Just don't expect her to get rank taken or anything like that.


Correct. What the young guys are telling me these days is that fraternization is so rampant that it is SOP in some units. Of course, this is what everyone said would obviously happen when the military went full coed. While adultery is still on the books, these days it's just used as a "piling on" charge to help get rid of someone who needs to be disposed of for more serious infractions. A very high percentage of the married personnel have this charge just waiting to happen, so it is selectively deployed as a legal force multiplier.


----------



## Grey Goose

I don't know if it get's anyone fired or not, but I would have loved doing it to my H at his workplace but I was a consultant there so guess who would have been humiliated!? ;-)


----------



## warlock07

OP, what about family ? Do you have any siblings ?


----------



## bfree

Grey Goose said:


> I don't know if it get's any9one fired or not, but I would have loved doing it to my H at his workplace but I was a consultant there so guess who would have been humiliated!? ;-)


If you weren't the one having the affair you shouldn't have felt humiliated at all.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Submitted report, doubt anything will come of it but submitted anyways. As for me I have an older brother and two younger sisters in college.

Edit: she has an older brother, who is best friends with my brother (irony abounds here) and we all used to play soccer on the same team together when we were in middle and high school

Edit 2: My parents are still together, though they've had their problems
her parents are still together as well even though her dad had an affair many years go.


----------



## Soifon

Exactly. It just gets brushed aside as, "oh they were deployed. It's really hard emotionally to be detached from family. It's just one of those things that happen when you have a group of people in high stress situations, blah blah blah." It's just the way of the world apparently.

Funny though on the last deployment in my SO's unit apparently most people were cheating on their husbands/wives but his one friend that was single spent the entire deployment and didn't get any LOL. I guess it's just the married people that want NSA so they can feel secure when they go home not to be ratted out. Which is why I agree OP should tell everyone.


----------



## bfree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Submitted report, doubt anything will come of it but submitted anyways. As for me I have an older brother and two younger sisters in college.
> 
> Edit: she has an older brother, who is best friends with my brother (irony abounds here) and we all used to play soccer on the same team together when we were in middle and high school


Tell them all.


----------



## JustGrinding

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Ugh...what I don't want is to ruin her career, especially if we were to reconcile. I could care less about his. All I really know about him is that he's a reservist out of Tampa and his name.


EDIT: Post OBE.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

JustGrinding said:


> EDIT: Post OBE.


She's still checking back into her command this week so she's home for the day, ostensibly so I can get some work done for my job and not worry about watching our son before we put him into daycare in a couple of weeks. Obviously I'm having a bit of trouble focusing on work.


----------



## Grey Goose

How are things at home? I cannot imagine how you can deal or communicate with her? I only waited like 9 hours to confront my H and I spent the day sort of lost.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Things are cordial, a random peck on the cheek or a stray hug. nothing like before she left for deployment. we're still very emotional detached so its like we're friends living in the same house.


----------



## Hardtohandle

BSV

FVCKING CRUSH HER... 

She is just biding her time.. 

She is getting all her ducks in a row. By the time you grow a pair her family will have heard a different story.

I'm NOT telling you as a man who succeeded. I am telling you as a man who FAILED... I went down your path.. This is the wrong way, turn back..

I know its tough. Trust me I know.. If I could go back to September 25th I would called everyone.. I would have told her get out. I would have bought her a plane ticket to her family. I would have told her take the fvcking kids and go if you have to, but get the fvck out of here. Go to your aunts house, whatever.. but get the fvck out.. 

Instead I talked her to fvcking death and she hated me more for it. I was a whiny b1tch to her. Trust me I would repeat things over and over and she would tell me I know, I know.. I you said it already.. 

The shock of family knowing and having her aunt come and get her would have put her in a odd place.. I know that now.. But I FAILED..

But I am done begging you.. And I am only begging because of the pain and hurt you will endure is unmeasurable. Its like ground hogs day movie but with a evil twist. You keep reliving the first day over and over and over..

Good luck to you.. 
I just can't stand to see you fall off this cliff it bring back to many issues of my own..


----------



## JustGrinding

Without getting too deep into the legalities: your wife's adultery probably won't cross the threshold of being actionable (i.e. her being charged) at this point. If it's deemed a remote action (a one-time relationship while deployed), it will probably be rug-swept. However, if your wife is involved in an ongoing extramarital relationship, she becomes a risk to her command. Bringing it to her command's attention, especially through the IG, will almost certainly result in a No Contact order. 

The No Contact order, forcefully ending the illicit relationship, should be your goal.

You cannot reconcile with a third party involved in your marriage. Do everything you can to run off the POSOM.


----------



## crossbar

BlindsidedinVA said:


> working on the report. The Navy IG says they don't investigate unless its "The IG does not investigate allegations of adultery for other than senior officials and commanding officers (see Exception below) unless the offenders are in the same chain of command and have a supervisor/employee relationship, i.e., fraternization." so I don't think they will even investigate this as they are not in the same chain of command. I could check on the Army side though


Nope! That's bullsh*t. I was in the Navy and I can tell you that the UCMJ is all encompassing. Not, just to be a ultilized for only senior ranking personnel or same chain of command. That's not what it states in the UCMJ. I know this for a fact.

If this gets swept under the rug or you don't hear anything back, then you contact your Congressman. I guarantee you that if you get your Congressman involved, you will NEVER see the military work so quickly to resolve your problem. Commanding Officers HATE it when Congressmen get involved because it looks bad on them. Base Generals and Admirals hate it when a Congressman is making inquiries about what's going on at their bases. You'll get your problem solved. Lightning fast too!!

Trust me on this, and do NOT sit on this.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

JustGrinding said:


> Without getting too deep into the legalities: your wife's adultery probably won't cross the threshold of being actionable (i.e. her being charged) at this point. If it's deemed a remote action (a one-time relationship while deployed), it will probably be rug-swept. However, if your wife is involved in an ongoing extramarital relationship, she becomes a risk to her command. Bringing it to her command's attention, especially through the IG, will almost certainly result in a No Contact order.
> 
> The No Contact order, forcefully ending the illicit relationship, should be your goal.
> 
> You cannot reconcile with a third party involved in your marriage. Do everything you can to run off the POSOM.


I doubt anything other than a no contact order will occur after I filed my complaint. I only filed with the Navy so I'm not sure if I should file with the Army too, as he as a reservist I'm pretty sure it will be rugswept on that side. I know I cannot reconcile with her while that crap is still occurring.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

crossbar said:


> Nope! That's bullsh*t. I was in the Navy and I can tell you that the UCMJ is all encompassing. Not, just to be a ultilized for only senior ranking personnel or same chain of command. That's not what it states in the UCMJ. I know this for a fact.
> 
> If this gets swept under the rug or you don't hear anything back, then you contact your Congressman. I guarantee you that if you get your Congressman involved, you will NEVER see the military work so quickly to resolve your problem. Commanding Officers HATE it when Congressmen get involved because it looks bad on them. Base Generals and Admirals hate it when a Congressman is making inquiries about what's going on at their bases. You'll get your problem solved. Lightning fast too!!
> 
> Trust me on this, and do NOT sit on this.




I submitted the report anyways.


----------



## tom67

Submit one to the army then you know his name.


----------



## 3putt

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I doubt anything other than a no contact order will occur after I filed my complaint. I only filed with the Navy so I'm not sure if I should file with the Army too, as he as a reservist I'm pretty sure it will be rugswept on that side. I know I cannot reconcile with her while that crap is still occurring.


Issuance of a NC order is really all you want. And yes, you should file a complaint on his side too. Once he sees you're not lying down, he may just decide your WW isn't worth all this.

You never know what will happen if you file the complaint, but you sure as hell know what will happen if you don't.


----------



## JustGrinding

BlindsidedinVA said:


> *I doubt anything other than a no contact order will occur after I filed my complaint*. I only filed with the Navy so I'm not sure if I should file with the Army too, as he as a reservist I'm pretty sure it will be rugswept on that side. I know I cannot reconcile with her while that crap is still occurring.


That's what you want, the NC order. Should meet all of your stated requirements: won't get her in trouble, but will make POSOM go away. If you have sufficient information about POSOM to report him to his service, do it! Don't just assume it will be rug-swept. If you go through the IG, it almost certainly will be acted upon.

Reservists are fully subject to the UCMJ when in inactive training status or on active duty. If POSOM was deployed, then his offense was conduucted while on active duty. He can be issued a lawful NC order. He ignores it at his peril.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

tom67 said:


> Submit one to the army then you know his name.


working on it.


----------



## tom67

I would contact the army before she goes down there.


----------



## JustGrinding

BlindsidedinVA said:


> working on it.


Good man, BinVA!

(This one seems to be breaking out of his fog . . .)


----------



## happyman64

BlindsidedinVA said:


> When I first found out I was holding out hope that we could work through things together and eventually reconcile. I didn't want to fly off the handle so I tried to remain calm and not say anything. I am meeting with my therapist on thursday, ironic Valentines' Day, and I will discuss this with him.


You should be meeting with your attorney before the therapist. To draft up the divorce papers.


----------



## 3putt

JustGrinding said:


> Good man, BinVA!
> 
> (This one seems to be breaking out of his fog . . .)


Yep...thankfully.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

JustGrinding said:


> Good man, BinVA!
> 
> (This one seems to be breaking out of his fog . . .)


hah...harder than you might think. To submit to the army I have to either submit in writing, fax or phone call, vs the Navy where I could submit online.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

happyman64 said:


> You should be meeting with your attorney before the therapist. To draft up the divorce papers.


I guess I should get an attorney first before I call him My attorney?


----------



## mahike

I am jumping in late and I am sorry you are going through this. If you need to get into MC start without her and you need to expose this to the families. I would ask your Dad to bring down the SUV so you can load her stuff up.

She needs to decide if her career is more important then your marriage.


----------



## happyman64

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Ugh...what I don't want is to ruin her career, especially if we were to reconcile. I could care less about his. All I really know about him is that he's a reservist out of Tampa and his name.


You are not ruining her career, you are trying to save your marriage. There is a big difference.

The only one hurting her career is her. She is messing with another guy in the military. There are rules regarding that nonsense!!!


----------



## JustGrinding

BlindsidedinVA said:


> hah...harder than you might think. To submit to the army I have to either submit in writing, fax or phone call, vs the Navy where I could submit online.


Cool! One more official paper to add to your documentation file!


----------



## Entropy3000

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, I suggested we go together and she was dismissive of it. Saying that it was a girls weekend though she was planning on taking our son too, since her friend has a kid about a year older than him, but they were planning on going to Tampa for Saturday night or Sunday night to celebrate the friends 30th, and leaving the kids with the friend's husband. As for going to the promotion ceremony, I said I wanted to go back down there too, to go scuba diving, since we had gone to visit back in October and she was kinda like...well I'm not sure if she was actually going to go, though I'm certain she is.


Wow. This is going to sound mean but you are one passive accepting guy about your wife cuckolding you.

Is that blunt enough?

Do you work? I saw you were an engineer. That would mean you make good money. 

I am ex military, why would you put up with this life style? Were you in the military? 

How did you happen to meet your wife? She lives in a different world from you?


----------



## happyman64

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I guess I should get an attorney first before I call him My attorney?


You should. You need to meet with one and know your rights, especially with a young child.

It gets complicated if she is active duty.

You need to be informed.

And stop being so dang nice. A good book to read is "No More Mr Nice Guy"


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Entropy3000 said:


> Wow. This is going to sound mean but you are one passive accepting guy about your wife cuckolding you.
> 
> Is that blunt enough?
> 
> Do you work? I saw you were an engineer. That would mean you make good money.
> 
> I am ex military, why would you put up with this life style? Were you in the military?
> 
> How did you happen to meet your wife? She lives in a different world from you?


If you go through the thread there is a progression of growth, especially in terms of a pair of balls. That was pretty blunt though. I'm there, I'm working on this ok? 

I make decent money, nothing spectacular but definitely can live comfortably. I met her in middle school/high school (the summer between) we started dating two years later and have been together for 13 years now. I was originally in ROTC in college and decided that I wanted to be more hands on in my job than being an officer would provide me, given my degree so I stopped. We stayed together even though I knew she was planning on military as a career. I told myself we could work through it. Call it teenaged enthusiasm, call it foolish thoughts, call it what you will but there are plenty of people who work through the military lifestyle just fine.


----------



## Entropy3000

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I want to be able to say to myself that I exposed it because it was for the best, not to hurt her. Right now if I exposed to her family and friends and command it would be vindictive. Like I said I will talk to my therapist on Thursday about what I should do and what is the right course of action. I know everyone's situation is different so there is no right answer but I just don't know how I'm going to do it yet.


So do you think when she is riding the OM she is thinking this is for the best because I do not want to hurt my husband?

Do you think she is thinking about you at that time?


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

happyman64 said:


> You should. You need to meet with one and know your rights, especially with a young child.
> 
> It gets complicated if she is active duty.
> 
> You need to be informed.
> 
> And stop being so dang nice. A good book to read is "No More Mr Nice Guy"



She is active duty, and there are plenty of issues that revolve around that, especially regarding her future possible deployments.

Edit: Ordered the book.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Entropy3000 said:


> So do you think when she is riding the OM she is thinking this is for the best because I do not want to hurt my husband?
> 
> Do you think she is thinking about you at that time?


no..she's being selfish and only thinking about herself. I'm trying to be a better person than that.


----------



## Entropy3000

Machiavelli said:


> Correct. What the young guys are telling me these days is that fraternization is so rampant that it is SOP in some units. Of course, this is what everyone said would obviously happen when the military went full coed. While adultery is still on the books, these days it's just used as a "piling on" charge to help get rid of someone who needs to be disposed of for more serious infractions. A very high percentage of the married personnel have this charge just waiting to happen, so it is selectively deployed as a legal force multiplier.


I have been out of the military for many years and it was one big frat party orgy back then.


----------



## terrence4159

Hang in there BVA it sucks right now but listen to the advice you get here. i wish i had this site 9 years ago when my wife (now XW) was cheating on me. i did the nice thing i did the lets work it out thing. we had a 9 mo old son at the time i was worried about him.......now 9 years later hes with me most of the time and he is a normal 9 year old kid DO THIS FOR YOU AND YOUR SON!! you both deserve better.

remember shes cheating on your son right now to not just you


----------



## kenmoore14217

I may do that, I will talk to her right after the wedding in May, oh wait, there is one in October too. I'm going to get my ducks in a row. You guys are great. I don't want to be vindictive. 

Classic: Getting ready to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready


----------



## alte Dame

Here's a bit from an infidelity expert on the value of exposure (read about halfway down the page):

How to Survive an Affair


----------



## Grey Goose

BlindsidedinVA said:


> no..she's being selfish and only thinking about herself. I'm trying to be a better person than that.


I am glad you are taking action and let me tell you something... From here on what you do, you do it for YOU and YOUR SON - not her, not to make her snap out or to get things fixed. Just thinking about this will make you go nuts and you do not need that. You need to protect yourself and your son and that is all. Get a hobby, do excercise, do something so your head stops with the movies. Focus on your kid, play with him and remind yourself over and over, this is not your fault, no matter what mistakes you did in your marriage. Hell we all do stupid things in our relationships, but that is no excuse to go and cheat. If someone is not happy in their relationship they should just leave.

Thinking about R with your wife will not help you now and belive me it is not all that great. It is a lot of work, sacrifice and energy. I am trying to do it myself and at times I just want to run myself to the ground. 

There are many of us here that can help and support you, so be sure to reach out to us. You are not alone!


----------



## Chaparral

Look up his name and phone number on spokeo.com. you know about where he lives , I will bet he is married. Find his wifes name on spokeo too. If he is areservist. You should also be able to call his base to find out some things.


----------



## Entropy3000

BlindsidedinVA said:


> If you go through the thread there is a progression of growth, especially in terms of a pair of balls. That was pretty blunt though. I'm there, I'm working on this ok?
> 
> I make decent money, nothing spectacular but definitely can live comfortably. I met her in middle school/high school (the summer between) we started dating two years later and have been together for 13 years now. I was originally in ROTC in college and decided that I wanted to be more hands on in my job than being an officer would provide me, given my degree so I stopped. We stayed together even though I knew she was planning on military as a career. I told myself we could work through it. Call it teenaged enthusiasm, call it foolish thoughts, call it what you will but there are plenty of people who work through the military lifestyle just fine.


The bottom line is that you messed up marrying her with her going into the military. What has happened to you is SOP for your situation.

I would be afraid to let the baby go with her. She may be gone and you may never see your child again. Seriously.

But beyond this the fact she tells you that she is going without you is just way way too passive. Too submissive. You tell her if she goes you are going to file immediately. 

But in reality you did not need to snoop any further. You know what is going on and are om with it. You will say it is tearing you up but indeed if it were you would have taken action already. Ask yourself why that is.

Are you sure this is your biological child? I know tat sounds very cold of me but inder the circumstances it is in question.

This thread started at Today, 05:47 AM 

So glad you are working on this but no one can change in a few hours.


----------



## Grey Goose

chapparal said:


> Look up his name and phone number on spokeo.com. you know about where he lives , I will bet he is married. Find his wifes name on spokeo too. If he is areservist. You should also be able to call his base to find out some things.


Hey Chapparal what is this website? I keep learning so much here I am always amazed!:smthumbup:


----------



## JustGrinding

BlindsidedinVA said:


> If you go through the thread there is a progression of growth, especially in terms of a pair of balls. I'm there, I'm working on this ok?


I agree with this. You seem to be shrugging off the emotional paralysis and putting some of that engineer-style logic to good use. You haven't crossed that alpha threshold of Hulking out and breaking furniture, but there's definitely an improvement evident with the exposure.

Please do yourself a favor, though: next time she sits there and tries to text POSOM right in front of your face, tell her to knock it off or get the fvck out -- right now.

Don't let her dis you like that, bro. Don't ever let anybody dis you like that.


----------



## tom67

You may want to do a DNA test to be sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Yes..I am sure our son is mine. he looked exactly like me when he was born and continues to have a good mix of my features and hers.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

chapparal said:


> Look up his name and phone number on spokeo.com. you know about where he lives , I will bet he is married. Find his wifes name on spokeo too. If he is areservist. You should also be able to call his base to find out some things.


He's not married. According to my WS they've talked about his ex and whether or not he should get back together with her when he returns from deployment for good. (how fricken twisted can this get?)


----------



## 3putt

BlindsidedinVA said:


> He's not married. *According to my WS* they've talked about his ex and whether or not he should get back together with her when he returns from deployment for good. (how fricken twisted can this get?)


Beware the bolded part. Remember, _*waywards lie*_.


----------



## mel123

I would be afraid to let the baby go with her. She may be gone and you may never see your child again. Seriously.

:iagree:


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

3putt said:


> Beware the bolded part. Remember, _*waywards lie*_.


yeah I know...but in my snooping I read some emails between them where he discusses his ex then says he doesn't want to talk about it as its a conflict of interest.


----------



## walkonmars

alte Dame said:


> You're a smart man. You see this common ploy when others miss it. People don't want to see themselves as bad people, as deceitful people. They lie themselves into a reality where there is justification for their actions. So she will say that she tried, but there was just no use with you.
> 
> *She's in the fog with another man and you are inconvenient. Just file. Stand up for yourself, not to show her, but to show yourself and the rest of the world that you're worth more than this.*


I agree with Alte completely. The die is cast. Why wait for the time it becomes convenient for her to jettison you like so much trash? 

The week before she goes to Fla give her a box of hefty trash bags and tell her to pack her sh1t and make plans to be elsewhere upon her return. Tell her you'll do it for her if she won't. 

This is a "cup of ice water to the face" approach. If she doesn't beg forgiveness then it was as everyone suspects - just a matter of time. 

Between now and the end of the month make preparations. See a lawyer. Inform your parents. Just before you give her the box, expose to her parents, send them the texts so they won't argue with you about you "misunderstanding" her.


----------



## 3putt

BlindsidedinVA said:


> yeah I know...but in my snooping I read some emails between them where he discusses his ex then says he doesn't want to talk about it as its a conflict of interest.


I wasn't just talking about your WW lying. Think.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

appointment with the lawyer set, now how to confront her and expose things to our friends and family.


----------



## TRy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> Aside from the key logger, The only thing I would be able to do at this point is to get a private eye to spy on her while she is in Florida. He is still deployed and will be in Florida for a couple of weeks of R&R when she is planning to be there.


 First you must be willing to end the marraige and mean it to have any chance at saving it. Prepare yourself for divorce in your heart. There is not guarantee that you can save it, but it gives you the best odds.

You need to confront well before the trip. It does not matter if you saved all of the evidence or if she admits it. All that matters is that you know enough to act. Tell her that you know she had an affair with this other man (OM), but do not tell her exactly what you know or how you know. Once you tell her that you know, demand that she decide if she wants to save the marraige or end it. Do not give her time to think or pay attention to her denials. She must decide right now. Tell her that no answer by her will be treated as a no to her wanting to save the marriage, and that you will file immediately. Tell her that her trip to Florida will be a one way ticket to divorce, so she needs to cancel it to have any chance at saving the marraige. She has lost respect for you and you need to act respect worthy so no begging. 

She will try to blame shift into making it your fault because all cheaters do. Do not let her do this. You both are 50%-50% responsible for the marriage but she is 100% responsible for her cheating. She will try to hold you to a standard of perfection that she knows that you will fail because as a human you cannot be perfect. Do not let her do this. Tell her that she either accepts you with your imperfection or she does not. Reminder her that she too is less than perfect, and tell her that you will only begin to discuss working on both of your imperfections after she ends the affair with complete no contact and shows remorse for her cheating. Good luck and be strong.


----------



## Grey Goose

Keep us posted so you have people on your side. I know TAM, my therapist and my life coach helped me a lot, bc I could not think straight.


----------



## tom67

TRy said:


> First you must be willing to end the marraige and mean it to have any chance at saving it. Prepare yourself for divorce in your heart. There is not guarantee that you can save it, but it gives you the best odds.
> 
> You need to confront well before the trip. It does not matter if you saved all of the evidence or if she admits it. All that matters is that you know enough to act. Tell her that you know she had an affair with this other man (OM), but do not tell her exactly what you know or how you know. Once you tell her that you know, demand that she decide if she wants to save the marraige or end it. Do not give her time to think or pay attention to her denials. She must decide right now. Tell her that no answer by her will be treated as a no to her wanting to save the marriage, and that you will file immediately. Tell her that her trip to Florida will be a one way ticket to divorce, so she needs to cancel it to have any chance at saving the marraige. She has lost respect for you and you need to act respect worthy so no begging.
> 
> She will try to blame shift into making it your fault because all cheaters do. Do not let her do this. You both are 50%-50% responsible for the marriage but she is 100% responsible for her cheating. She will try to hold you to a standard of perfection that she knows that you will fail because as a human you cannot be perfect. Do not let her do this. Tell her that she either accepts you with your imperfection or she does not. Reminder her that she too is less than perfect, and tell her that you will only begin to discuss working on both of your imperfections after she ends the affair with complete no contact and shows remorse for her cheating. Good luck and be strong.


:iagree:Read this great advice. Expose to friends and family now.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

starting the exposure...actually talked to the friend we're going to the wedding for next weekend who is also a mental health professional. She was shocked and stunned and said this explains so much about how my wife is acting around me right now. Avoiding the real issues and just staying detached, avoiding the guilt she feels by not reconnecting to me.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BlindsidedinVA said:


> starting the exposure...actually talked to the friend we're going to the wedding for next weekend who is also a mental health professional. She was shocked and stunned and said this explains so much about how my wife is acting around me right now. Avoiding the real issues and just staying detached, avoiding the guilt she feels by not reconnecting to me.


Exposure must be fast and effective , do not trickle it as it gives her a chance to counter you. As for exposing on the OM's side make sure you target his family, parents , job and anyone else who is in his social circle. As far as you concerned your waging a war on him. Take a zero tolerance approach with your wife and do not hesitate to do what is right for you .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Eli-Zor said:


> Exposure must be fast and effective , do not trickle it as it gives her a chance to counter you. As for exposing on the OM's side make sure you target his family, parents and anyone else who is in his social circle. As far as you concerned your waging a war on him. Take a zero tolerance approach with your wife and do not hesitate to do what is right for you .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no contact with him, his social circle, or his family so I can't wage my war directly on him. all I have is my wife in front of me making me live in a burning hell.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I have no contact with him, his social circle, or his family so I can't wage my war directly on him. all I have is my wife in front of me making me live in a burning hell.


Then find him and get the information, an OM has no incentive to back off unless you make him feel the consequences plus from experience your wife will do what she can to protect him. Rattle his cage and you rattle hers .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Find his number through the phone records or just grab her phone.


----------



## walkonmars

You know his name, you know his branch of service. Google his name in quotes and branch. "his name" + "army" 
see what turns up - could lead you to facebook and a girl friend's name. Gather info on him.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

I know he has a facebook account, there isn't much to be seen on it without being a friend though. Can't post to his timeline, no contact information.

Edit: My wife and him are not friends on facebook the only reason I know is he's a friend of one of her friends on facebook. I've tried looking up his name many times to no real avail.

Edit 2: He is still deployed so they haven't spoken on the phone just google chat.


----------



## walkonmars

One more shot:
"his name" + "army" site:mil


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

one page comes up, a newsletter from the deployment site with a picture of him in a tacky polo for christmas and a caption with is name. thats it.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BlindsidedinVA said:


> one page comes up, a newsletter from the deployment site with a picture of him in a tacky polo for christmas and a caption with is name. thats it.


Its a start, save the photo and carry on searching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

try variations of his name ie: if it's "steve" try "steven" etc


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

honestly I don't want to focus on him, he obviously doesn't care based on the conversations I snooped on. I want to focus on whether or not this will work with my wife.


----------



## walkonmars

It might. If she hasn't mentally checked out yet. 

Even if she has checked out - an extended period of time living in reality MAY have her reconsider. My question though, why would you want to? It's not the sweet girl you dated anymore. She's changed. 

Not saying she can't change again but really - it'll take a ton of work on her part and yours if you don't want to just sweep it under the rug once exposed.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

what is an extended period of time in reality? I'm pretty sure she's checked out I just don't know what I'm going to do yet


----------



## TRy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> honestly I don't want to focus on him, he obviously doesn't care based on the conversations I snooped on. I want to focus on whether or not this will work with my wife.


 Good focus. Confront ASAP. Time is not on your side. Shaking her up when he is deployed and far away increases your odds. Waiting until she gets close to seeing him in Florida hurts your odds.


----------



## Entropy3000

No way you can have her making that trip let alone taling the twp year old.

If she cannot choose to stay with you for this then she has made her choice.

If you let her go you have made yours. Which is to enable her further.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Entropy3000 said:


> No way you can have making that trip let alone taling the twp year old.
> 
> If she cannot choose to stay with you for this then she has made her choice.
> 
> If you let her go you have made yours. Which is to enable her further.


I know. I'm just trying to figure out the right approach where I don't lose it when I confront her.


----------



## Entropy3000

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I know. I'm just trying to figure out the right approach where I don't lose it when I confront her.


You hold yourself back way too much. You would not build up this anger if you were no a conflict avoider. If you had confience in yourself and did not allow others to abuse you you would not be so afraid.

No one aksed you to hit her or even yell. It is best to deal with problems when they are small.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Entropy3000 said:


> You hold yourself back way too much. You would not build up this anger if you were no a conflict avoider. If you had confience in yourself and did not allow others to abuse you you would not be so afraid.
> 
> No one aksed you to hit her or even yell. It is best to deal with problems when they are small.


I know no one asked me to hit her or yell but I know myself and I know how I have been in the past. Yelling will not help, hitting will not help but if I fly off the handle I don't know if I could stop myself from it, hence the holding myself back.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

walkonmars said:


> It might. If she hasn't mentally checked out yet.
> 
> Even if she has checked out - an extended period of time living in reality MAY have her reconsider. My question though, why would you want to? It's not the sweet girl you dated anymore. She's changed.
> 
> Not saying she can't change again but really - it'll take a ton of work on her part and yours if you don't want to just sweep it under the rug once exposed.




I don't know if I would take her back or not. I won't close the door in the interests of our son but right now I just don't know.


----------



## TRy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I don't know if I would take her back or not. I won't close the door in the interests of our son but right now I just don't know.


 Calmly tell her just that. You are in the right frame of mind to confront. It makes you look strong and not weak. This allows you to put the shoe on the other foot. Tell her that for her to even have a chance at saving the marraige she needs to agree to the following:

1) She cancels the trip to Florida. 

2) Full no contact with the other man which includes a no contact letter that you see her write and send.

3) Full transparency which includes all passwords. Yes when she deploys she can go around this, but this is more to have her show her commitment to you.

4) Full disclosure of her cheating which includes her answering all of your questions without anger no matter how many times you ask the same questions. She does this out of love and to help you heal.

5) She must convey true remorse.


----------



## walkonmars

A major stumbling block, in the event that you or your wife want reconciliation is that career of hers. There will be other TDYs, deployments, too many opportunities to be separated and present opportunities for her and major triggers, doubts for you. 

Marriage has periods of struggle. But with your situation I just don't see success - you'll be faced with more than A struggle.


----------



## warlock07

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/65623-wife-having-affair-180-not-working.html 

Read this thread


----------



## Shaggy

You need to go after the OM too. You want him to dump your wife. She's been easy sex for him, without consequence. Part of exposure is to make her costly to be with.

Post him on cheaterville.com for starters.

How did they come into contact. Was she treating him? If so major no no.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

I confronted her tonight. 

I told her that I knew there is more to it with the guy. I knew she had an affair. Yes I snooped and monitored things but her secretive nature lead me to do it. She said she knew I was snooping and reading her emails. She has felt disconnected from me since November and she had hoped when she got back that she would check back into the relationship but when she saw me and our son who was asleep in my arms the only thing she felt was for our son. She had hoped that over the last couple of weeks that things would click. I let her go on for a while before I asked my obvious question of "How do you expect to reconnect to me while you are still flirting with him?" She didn't really have an answer for that. We talked about a lot of stuff in our relationship tonight and how we just don't know what we want and where we want to be.

I told her that I was hurt and pissed off and more than a little ready to end things but I didn't want to close the door. I told her if she wants any opportunity to reconcile our relationship she would need to end things with the guy and cut off communication. She sat and thought about this for a while, not really responding. I asked her while she was thinking "you don't know if losing either is worth it, do you?" she said no. So I sat for another 5 minutes as she thought and drifted in and out of dozing before I finally got up and said. "Well you know what I want. I'm not saying we will reconcile but to have that door open you have to do this" and I walked out to the office.


----------



## Shaggy

Now go post OM on cheateville


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

TRy said:


> Calmly tell her just that. You are in the right frame of mind to confront. It makes you look strong and not weak. This allows you to put the shoe on the other foot. Tell her that for her to even have a chance at saving the marraige she needs to agree to the following:
> 
> 1) She cancels the trip to Florida.
> 
> 2) Full no contact with the other man which includes a no contact letter that you see her write and send.
> 
> 3) Full transparency which includes all passwords. Yes when she deploys she can go around this, but this is more to have her show her commitment to you.
> 
> 4) Full disclosure of her cheating which includes her answering all of your questions without anger no matter how many times you ask the same questions. She does this out of love and to help you heal.
> 
> 5) She must convey true remorse.



None of this happened. She detaches from her emotions easily so as upset as she may have been tonight she didn't show it. She didn't show much in the way of emotion at all actually. Throughout our 2 hour conversation the only times I saw anything other than flat affect was when she laughed at something from our past that we were talking about. 

I don't hold out high hopes that we will reconcile, but again the door is there its up to her if its closed or not.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you given her the black and white choice: end the affair now or the marriage is over because you chose your affair partner?

It sounds like you talked and talked, and in the end she's still choosing to cheat.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Shaggy said:


> Have you given her the black and white choice: end the affair now or the marriage is over because you chose your affair partner?
> 
> It sounds like you talked and talked, and in the end she's still choosing to cheat.


I did give her the ultimatum. I don't know if she's decided one way or the other as she was having trouble staying awake after I gave the ultimatum. (we're early morning birds usually so anything past 10 is really late for us) Again I'm not hold out high hopes though a little part of me still wants to reconcile.


----------



## Shaggy

I think her falling asleep says a lot. If she valued you, the adrenaline of getting caught would have her awake and driven.

Don't give her time to rationalize and recover. You need to keep the pressure on. If she doesn't choose you tomorrow, then tell her nothing and go to an attorney and start the filing process. You cn always cancel it if she ends the affair.


----------



## Machiavelli

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I did give her the ultimatum.


Good. Time's up. Now, serve her ass.


----------



## TRy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I did give her the ultimatum. I don't know if she's decided one way or the other as she was having trouble staying awake after I gave the ultimatum. (we're early morning birds usually so anything past 10 is really late for us) Again I'm not hold out high hopes though a little part of me still wants to reconcile.


 You are kidding me right? You spoke to her for 2 hours and then she fell asleep with no answer? One more act of disrespecting you. That is her answer right there dude. Remember that no answer by her is her not deciding to break off the affair and commit to the marraige which was the ultimatum. Your ultimatum was a demand for specific action by her. Ignoring that demand is another way of saying no. Not answering is right out of the caking eating cheaters script. It just another way to try to string you along.

You made the demand and she did not do what you asked. The only correct answer was yes that she will commit to what you were demanding. In the morning tell her that you are sorry that she did not choose to commit to the marriage last night and that you will be filing for divorce. Start talking about details of the divorce and how you will divide things up. Make it real to her.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I confronted her tonight.
> 
> I told her that I knew there is more to it with the guy. I knew she had an affair. Yes I snooped and monitored things but her secretive nature lead me to do it. She said she knew I was snooping and reading her emails. She has felt disconnected from me since November and she had hoped when she got back that she would check back into the relationship but when she saw me and our son who was asleep in my arms the only thing she felt was for our son. She had hoped that over the last couple of weeks that things would click. I let her go on for a while before I asked my obvious question of "How do you expect to reconnect to me while you are still flirting with him?" She didn't really have an answer for that. We talked about a lot of stuff in our relationship tonight and how we just don't know what we want and where we want to be.
> 
> I told her that I was hurt and pissed off and more than a little ready to end things but I didn't want to close the door. I told her if she wants any opportunity to reconcile our relationship she would need to end things with the guy and cut off communication. She sat and thought about this for a while, not really responding. I asked her while she was thinking "you don't know if losing either is worth it, do you?" she said no. So I sat for another 5 minutes as she thought and drifted in and out of dozing before I finally got up and said. "Well you know what I want. I'm not saying we will reconcile but to have that door open you have to do this" and I walked out to the office.


You are still talking way too much, you try to argue her back into the marriage.

You are told enough what to do.....

Your last sentence is only for when she has admitted the affair completely and when SHE wants reconciliation.

ACT and don't talk anymore. You talk to reassure yourself, she is smarter than you are at this moment. Change please.


----------



## warlock07

Ok, I'll try to find the links when I am a bit more free but try to read the threads from these users. They are pretty much like you when they started.

zillard http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html

Regroup http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/63357-time-regroup-move.html

Gutpunch http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61702-gutpunchs-journal.html

staystrong http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-.../67170-cant-let-go-got-bad-case-one-itis.html



Please read these threads. They will give you a template on how to act as you deal with this. Notice the mistakes most of this men make and FFS, don't beg or cry asking for reconciliation.

Finally, she was dozing off to sleep during the confrontation ? Tells you all you need. You should go forward with divorce unless she makes some huge changes and is begging you for it.


----------



## Entropy3000

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I know no one asked me to hit her or yell but I know myself and I know how I have been in the past. Yelling will not help, hitting will not help but if I fly off the handle I don't know if I could stop myself from it, hence the holding myself back.


Again the way you get over this is to not wait for problems to become large. Learn to not repress your feelings. Learn not to avoid conflict. Learn to deal with problems when they are manageable without going ballistic. Avoid the drama. Set your boundaries.

You would be amazed how calm you can be if you find your own center. You will find you can calmly state your position and then act. This obviates all the rest of this avoidance. Things never get better by ignoring them.


----------



## Everafter2013

Hi, I'm a newbie (female)...I should have introduced myself first, but I can't help but replying to your post. 



BlindsidedinVA said:


> I told her that I was hurt and pissed off and more than a little ready to end things but I didn't want to close the door. I told her if she wants any opportunity to reconcile our relationship she would need to end things with the guy and cut off communication. She sat and thought about this for a while, not really responding. I asked her while she was thinking "you don't know if losing either is worth it, do you?" she said no. So I sat for another 5 minutes as she thought and drifted in and out of dozing before I finally got up and said. "Well you know what I want. I'm not saying we will reconcile but to have that door open you have to do this" and I walked out to the office.


She could not answer you and fell asleep instead? Honestly? Didn't you write she texted the OM in front of you? Man, I'm telling you now...she does not care how her affair affects you, she does not give a crap about you, she just does not care, PERIOD. She has checked out mentally a long time ago. The only reason she hasn't left yet is because she still wants to test-drive the other guy first. 

Once she is sure, she will pack up her bags and leave. She feels no remorse because she just does not give a damn about you. If I cheated, I would be shaking in my boots if my husband confronted me like that. Sleepiness would be the last thing I would feel. She also said that she knew you had been snooping and she didn't even care, did she? OPEN YOUR EYES. Your marriage is over. Maybe one day the remorse will hit her and you may have a shot to save it, but now? I would bet: NO. She may feel remorse when things fall apart with the OM. She may feel remorse when he cheats on her too, or dumps her. She may feel remorse when she finally realizes what she has lost for the OM. But she won't feel remorse just because you are being so damn nice to her. 

Start the divorce rolling, and do it for yourself and your son. Why would you want to stay with a person who does not care about you anymore? Not only she hurts you, she knows it and just doesn't care. Many cheaters think "as long as s/he doesn't know." But she knows that you know, and she doesn't give a crap. My God! How can she or anyone respect you when you keep letting her disrespect you like that? You don't have to lose it, you don't have to be cruel and vindictive, just MOVE ON and LET HER GO. Do it because you love yourself, you have too much dignity to be with a person who disrespect you like this.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Everafter2013 said:


> Hi, I'm a newbie (female)...I should have introduced myself first, but I can't help but replying to your post.
> 
> 
> 
> She could not answer you and fell asleep instead? Honestly? Didn't you write she texted the OM in front of you? Man, I'm telling you now...she does not care how her affair affects you, she does not give a crap about you, she just does not care, PERIOD. She has checked out mentally a long time ago. The only reason she hasn't left yet is because she still wants to test-drive the other guy first.
> 
> Once she is sure, she will pack up her bags and leave. She feels no remorse because she just does not give a damn about you. If I cheated, I would be shaking in my boots if my husband confronted me like that. Sleepiness would be the last thing I would feel. She also said that she knew you had been snooping and she didn't even care, did she? OPEN YOUR EYES. Your marriage is over. Maybe one day the remorse will hit her and you may have a shot to save it, but now? I would bet: NO. She may feel remorse when things fall apart with the OM. She may feel remorse when he cheats on her too, or dumps her. She may feel remorse when she finally realizes what she has lost for the OM. But she won't feel remorse just because you are being so damn nice to her.
> 
> Start the divorce rolling, and do it for yourself and your son. Why would you want to stay with a person who does not care about you anymore? Not only she hurts you, she knows it and just doesn't care. Many cheaters think "as long as s/he doesn't know." But she knows that you know, and she doesn't give a crap. My God! How can she or anyone respect you when you keep letting her disrespect you like that? You don't have to lose it, you don't have to be cruel and vindictive, just MOVE ON and LET HER GO. Do it because you love yourself, you have too much dignity to be with a person who disrespect you like this.


I have started the divorce steps, meeting with a lawyer later this week. I told her as much this morning. I told her I am not waiting around for her to decide because that is disrespectful to me and our marriage. The ball is in her court if she wants to even attempt a reconciliation but I have contacted a lawyer so I can figure out what my options are. She seemed in even more shock about that than anything last night. I told her what my ideals were in terms of a relationship and family and if she cannot commit to that then I know what I need to do. Sucks, I'm still in mourning over the relationship and I know this but this isn't healthy for me or our son if she isn't in it 100%. She is seeking help herself to figure out what is going on with her but as I told her, I'm not going to wait around while she cultivates a relationship with someone else. I'm starting to pack my bags and making plans to move me and my son back to northern va to be with family.


----------



## Jasel

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I did give her the ultimatum. I don't know if she's decided one way or the other *as she was having trouble staying awake after I gave the ultimatum.*


I don't care if she wakes up at 3pm every day. That says it all right there.

Also stop telling her what your plans are.


----------



## Shaggy

She knows exactly what is going on, the thing is she doesn't want to change what she ha chosen.

She and OM has no responsibilities when they hooked up. Just themself, work, sex dating. All about her and fun.

You on the other hand have a kid,a house, real life. Chores. Bills.

See why she didn't feel anything for you when she saw you? 

You need to wake her up to a couple facts. 
1. The kid is going to be full time in VA. This is your home and his home, and she is not going to be taking him to FL.
2. You will be filing for full custody. She is active duty and unable. To provide a permanent state home. She is choosing being single over being a wife and mother.
3. You will be naming the OM in the divorce.

Now get the OM posted on cheaterville.com


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## 2asdf2

BlindsidedinVA said:


> ----------Snip for brevity-------------
> *I'm starting to pack my bags* and making plans to move me and my son back to northern va to be with family.


How much have you packed in already?

How long will it take you to pack in the rest?


----------



## Grey Goose

This is what I would do if I were you and I have gone through this and have been separated, at court in child custody and divorce hearings.

You do not tell her anything else, yo have said enough. Talk to a lawyer now to get informed, coordinate the move with your kid and let her enjoy her affair. She does not care.

I am sorry but I have been here, the more you talk, the more they laugh at us.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Machiavelli said:


> Good. Time's up. Now, serve her ass.


Exactly. A spouse should only need a few seconds to decide and choose what is right.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

2asdf2 said:


> How much have you packed in already?
> 
> How long will it take you to pack in the rest?


Most of my day to day stuff is packed, I need to take my computer (for work) and some other stuff which will take some time to pack up. On top of this I'm still watching our son while trying to pack so its not going as quickly as I had hoped.


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## BlindsidedinVA

OK quick update...After I packed put things in my car getting ready to leave she comes home. Said she thought about things all day went back and forth and weighed the choice she would have to make between us or him. She ultimately said she decided to work on us so she sent him an email saying she wouldn't be in contact and that she was going to try to fix out marriage. I didn't end up moving out as we talked all afternoon about stuff. She said I was right in that she never gave us a chance after she got back from deployment and that she was afraid to because she was scared she would still be in love with me while being in love with the other guy and that she would be stuck and miserable.

Our conversations have been more open and honest over the last couple of weeks. She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me. She doesn't know what she wants out of life or a relationship, especially ours. She also said that she feels like we missed out on the carefree clubbing/partying days and that while she didn't think it was important at the time that she wants to have that time now while in the future she wants to have more of the family time type of vacations. When she first said that she said "with you" but when we talked about it later she said she doesn't have an image in mind about who she's with just that she wants that family time. 

She is pushing hard for a separation so she can "figure out what she wants" because she is unsure if she's unhappy or unfulfilled in the relationship and why and she doesn't think she can figure that out while I am around because she doesn't think about it unless she is alone. 

Personally I think thats a bunch of BS because while we've been back together for almost a month it really is almost like we are completely separated emotionally except for when we have those conversations. 

So as far as I can tell she has broken off communication with the OM, unless she's contacting him from work. She still talks to her other friends from deployment who are in contact with him so I don't know if they are passing messages between them or not but a couple of things are for sure. She's not happy in the relationship, I'm not happy because she's not committed 100% to us and working on us. I told her that I feel like she still has feelings for the OM and that its painful to sit here and watch that. 

I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating. We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on but the romantic relationship is pretty much DOA and I don't know how to resuscitate it, if it even can be.


----------



## Jasel

Sorry but you should have left like you were going to.



> Our conversations have been more open and honest over the last couple of weeks. She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me. She doesn't know what she wants out of life or a relationship, especially ours. She also said that she feels like we missed out on the carefree clubbing/partying days and that while she didn't think it was important at the time that she wants to have that time now while in the future she wants to have more of the family time type of vacations. When she first said that she said "with you" but when we talked about it later she said she doesn't have an image in mind about who she's with just that she wants that family time.
> 
> She is pushing hard for a separation so she can "figure out what she wants" because she is unsure if she's unhappy or unfulfilled in the relationship and why and she doesn't think she can figure that out while I am around because she doesn't think about it unless she is alone.


Especially after this.



> I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating.


Umm she did that.


----------



## happyman64

Blind

Thanks for the update.

I hope you did not unpack your car.

Because your wife is full of BS and is cake eating.

She is either all in or you are out.

You already know it.

What a shame. She still wants to party now but be a wife and mom when she grows up.

Yeah, she is just peachy.

You know what you have to do. You know what you deserve in a woman.

Very sad her outlook on life.

Be strong. 

HM64


----------



## bfree

Her feelings towards you are understandable. She can't romantically have room in her heart for you and her lover. The human mind doesn't work that way. If she truly cuts off communication with her AP then her feelings for you will most likely return. That's how this works. But I don't believe she has actually gone NC at all. What I think is that she doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy and is pushing for separation so she can resume their affair without the guilt and without you monitoring her. This is a very typical ploy by WS in order to continue their affair and cover their tracks. If she really wanted to work on the marriage she wouldn't be pushing for separation at all. I would tell her that the only separation you will accept is divorce. File asap and see if the threat of an imminent end to the marriage will change her mind. To be honest it sounds like she is not marriage material right now and wants to just party hardy and live the single woman life. Perhaps you should grant her wish?


----------



## bfree

BTW, have you gone nuclear on exposure? If you truly want to have a shot at R the only way is to nuke them as much and as fast as possible. Make every one of her family and friends disgusted at the sight of her. Make every one of his family and friends disgusted at him. Anything less and they will continue the affair and you will never be anything more than coparents.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BlindsidedinVA said:


> OK quick update...After I packed put things in my car getting ready to leave she comes home. Said she thought about things all day went back and forth and weighed the choice she would have to make between us or him.
> 
> She ultimately said she decided to work on us so she sent him an email saying she wouldn't be in contact and that she was going to try to fix out marriage.
> 
> Did you see the email?
> 
> I didn't end up moving out as we talked all afternoon about stuff. She said I was right in that she never gave us a chance after she got back from deployment and that she was afraid to because she was scared she would still be in love with me while being in love with the other guy and that she would be stuck and miserable.
> 
> Our conversations have been more open and honest over the last couple of weeks.
> 
> She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me.
> 
> She is still getting her OM fix
> 
> She doesn't know what she wants out of life or a relationship, especially ours. She also said that she feels like we missed out on the carefree clubbing/partying days and that while she didn't think it was important at the time that she wants to have that time now while in the future she wants to have more of the family time type of vacations. When she first said that she said "with you" but when we talked about it later she said she doesn't have an image in mind about who she's with just that she wants that family time.
> 
> I call that bull, she is yearning for the excitement of being single and playing the field with a you as a secure backup plan
> 
> 
> She is pushing hard for a separation so she can "figure out what she wants" because she is unsure if she's unhappy or unfulfilled in the relationship and why and she doesn't think she can figure that out while I am around because she doesn't think about it unless she is alone.
> 
> 
> She looking for a legit excuse to go to the OM
> 
> Personally I think thats a bunch of BS because while we've been back together for almost a month it really is almost like we are completely separated emotionally except for when we have those conversations.
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> So as far as I can tell she has broken off communication with the OM, unless she's contacting him from work.
> 
> From experience in dealing with waywards:- she has found another way to contact the OM
> 
> 
> She still talks to her other friends from deployment who are in contact with him so I don't know if they are passing messages between them or not but a couple of things are for sure. She's not happy in the relationship, I'm not happy because she's not committed 100% to us and working on us. I told her that I feel like she still has feelings for the OM and that its painful to sit here and watch that.
> 
> She is still getting her fix and if she not in direct contact with the OM is getting it through the friends.
> 
> 
> I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating. We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on but the romantic relationship is pretty much DOA and I don't know how to resuscitate it, if it even can be.


Try the following

She hand writes a NC letter to the OM in your presence and you post it to him, that way she gives you his address and she confirms in front of you that she is cutting off contact. 

She cuts off contact will all friends who are enablers, know of the affair and have contact with the OM 

She confirms in your presence to her family and yours that she has been having an affair. 

Key here is for her to burn all bridges to the OM and ensure there is no return , only then will she be able to focus on you. If nothing changes then you are in limbo and she will simply go back to the OM and pretend to family and friends that she tried to save the marriage. 

She is either in the marriage with both feet or she is out, at the moment she has one foot out of the door.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

I've talked to my close friends about it and some of her close friends who are mutual friends. I don't want family involved because they already have boundary issues and I just don't want to deal with that crap right now.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I've talked to my close friends about it and some of her close friends who are mutual friends. I don't want family involved because they already have boundary issues and I just don't want to deal with that crap right now.



I hear you and you know the family best, but this works in in her favor when your marriage falls apart.


----------



## BlindsidedinVA

Eli-Zor said:


> Try the following
> 
> She hand writes a NC letter to the OM in your presence and you post it to him, that way she gives you his address and she confirms in front of you that she is cutting off contact.
> 
> She cuts off contact will all friends who are enablers, know of the affair and have contact with the OM
> 
> She confirms in your presence to her family and yours that she has been having an affair.
> 
> Key here is for her to burn all bridges to the OM and ensure there is no return , only then will she be able to focus on you. If nothing changes then you are in limbo and she will simply go back to the OM and pretend to family and friends that she tried to save the marriage.
> 
> She is either in the marriage with both feet or she is out, at the moment the has one foot out of the door.



No, I didn't see the letter. The only person I think knew about the affair from deployment she talks to on a regular basis (and I am 99% sure had an affair herself while on the deployment too)...and when she's back home in a few weeks actually lives a couple of miles from where we live. 

I've told her that it bothers me the she even still has him on her google chat contacts list and that to get over him she should remove him from that list and remove all possibility of contacting him by accident whether drunken night or whatever. I told her that I feel like divorce is an escape hatch that I would rather not use but she has to be committed to us for that to not be an option.


----------



## BjornFree

BlindsidedinVA said:


> No, I didn't see the letter. The only person I think knew about the affair from deployment she talks to on a regular basis (and I am 99% sure had an affair herself while on the deployment too)...and when she's back home in a few weeks actually lives a couple of miles from where we live.
> 
> I've told her that it bothers me the she even still has him on her google chat contacts list and that to get over him she should remove him from that list and remove all possibility of contacting him by accident whether drunken night or whatever. I told her that I feel like divorce is an escape hatch that I would rather not use but she has to be committed to us for that to not be an option.


Brother, do you know what the biggest regret of most people that divorced is? That they behaved in a way that was totally unbecoming of what they usually were. But its only natural due to the jumbled emotions you experience. You need to send out a clear message to your spouse and I don't mean telling her do this or else. 

You have to stop giving her options because she will inevitably choose the best option for her, ie. keeping both you and the OM. So you need to start doing what's best for you. File for divorce, let her know without a shred of doubt that you are willing to accept nothing less than what you deserve and since you're not getting what you deserve, you're willing to call it quits.


----------



## Theseus

bfree said:


> BTW, have you gone nuclear on exposure? If you truly want to have a shot at R the only way is to nuke them as much and as fast as possible. Make every one of her family and friends disgusted at the sight of her. Make every one of his family and friends disgusted at him. Anything less and they will continue the affair and you will never be anything more than coparents.



A lot of people give this same advice, but I couldn't possibly disagree more. It seems like pointless revenge to me. If you go "nuclear" and tell everyone in sight, then you entirely poison the same well you have to drink from if you and your spouse ever reconcile. How would you ever go to family events together? Even if you divorce, you still have to deal with the person because they have a child together. 

Some other people advised him to tell her commanding officer. That's normally not great advice either. Look, I'm in the military myself, and have seen this issue first hand several times. It's a common story - female is deployed, she is suddenly on her own surrounded by 90% horny males, and she is overwhelmed with the amount of male attention she is getting. For some less attractive women, they are suddenly more popular than they've ever been before. 

Yes, adultery is illegal in the military (this has been taken out of civilian criminal law, but the military code lags a little behind). But actually prosecuting someone for it is extremely rare - for one thing, it's very hard to prove. And even if she was prosecuted, she would lose rank, which means the husband would lose potential alimony afterwards. Usually what happens is that the commander would issue a 6 month no-contact order between the soldier and whoever she was sleeping with. That might end the adultery with that person, but do you really want your spouse to be faithful by being forced to? If you have to rely on something like that, the marriage is already over, and she will just cheat with someone else eventually.


----------



## Shaggy

Sorry, but all she has done is buy herself time. She didn't choose to work on the marriage at all. That's why she wants a separation. It gives her freedom to be single and to continue contact with the OM while keeping you from divorcing her.

If I remember the OM hasn't gotten back in town, AND, potentially she and he could face fallout from their affair at work.

So what she has done is take your threat of standing up for yourself and insisting she choose you or him, and she turned your resolve into a bluff.

I recommend the NC letter others have mentioned by in addition:

1. No separation, separation instantly mean you file and leave. She has months of separation on deployment and she used it to cheat. These months did nothing good for the marriage, they only killed it.

2. She has to spend 15-20 hours per week with YOU one on one. Not watching TV, not complaining about work, but doing couples things.

3. The complete lack of physical attraction means she's still saving hersef for the OM. I predict that she still plans on meeting up with him when he's back in town. Ok, she doesn't want to jump in the sack with you. She can hold your hand, hug upon arrival and departure and kiss you. 

4. She gives you compete and total transparency to phone text and email and FB. Yes she's gonna be using work or a burner phone to contact him, so you need a var in her car still.

5. No girls nights out. None. If she's working on the marriage she's gotta be putting the effort in. She gotta be dating you, so going out means going out with you.

6. If she wants to club and party, she goes only with you. Those places are hookup spots. Singles go there to get noticed and get laid. If that's the phase she she really wants, being free to go home with anyone she wants, then file now and save the grief.

The only way you can R is to set the boundaries hard and refuse to let her play you, unfortunately I think she's currently taken it under ground.

She's buying time and trying not to look quite as awful as she is.

She's said she chooses to work on the marriage, then accept nothing less from her. She doesn't get to work on the marriage and be single too. She's a mom and a wife and so her days of being single are either over for good or you file.

Remember you can't nice her into bring a faithful wife.


----------



## Chaparral

BlindsidedinVA said:


> No, I didn't see the letter. The only person I think knew about the affair from deployment she talks to on a regular basis (and I am 99% sure had an affair herself while on the deployment too)...and when she's back home in a few weeks actually lives a couple of miles from where we live.
> 
> I've told her that it bothers me the she even still has him on her google chat contacts list and that to get over him she should remove him from that list and remove all possibility of contacting him by accident whether drunken night or whatever. I told her that I feel like divorce is an escape hatch that I would rather not use but she has to be committed to us for that to not be an option.



This sounds so weak and needy. She is comparing you to the om and you are not coming across as manly.

You have got to read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER to see why he is more attractive than you. Download it at amazon.com now. It may not be too late.

No other book has helped so many men here. By the way, the title is a bit misleading. It is not a sex manual. It shows how women think about men.


----------



## Shaggy

BlindsidedinVA said:


> No, I didn't see the letter. The only person I think knew about the affair from deployment she talks to on a regular basis (and I am 99% sure had an affair herself while on the deployment too)...and when she's back home in a few weeks actually lives a couple of miles from where we live.
> 
> I've told her that it bothers me the she even still has him on her google chat contacts list and that to get over him she should remove him from that list and remove all possibility of contacting him by accident whether drunken night or whatever. I told her that I feel like divorce is an escape hatch that I would rather not use but she has to be committed to us for that to not be an option.


Dude!

You had resolve and it started things in the right direction, but now you're loosing the initiative by accepting her pushing back.

1. Go see the husband if that friend and warn him. Tell him your wife cheated and that you suspect his wife way have too, and that your wife and his are buddies that very well maybe covering for each other.

2. Don't suggest she delete him, insist on deleting of concat info. She chose you. He's gone.

3. Ask for the NC letter.this is part of transparency. Right now there is no NC letter and no transparency.


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## walkonmars

She has some hold on you that is very hard for me to understand. The amount of disrespect you have been shown is utterly unbelievable. She told him she wasn't going to contact him again - yet doesn't remove his contact info? Yeah. big slap to your face. 

And what's this bullsnot about "missing out on the carefree life"? She missed out on that? Well she also missed out on the "carefree wh0ring life" and the "carefree drug-life" are those next or are those part and parcel of what she wants.


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## DavidWYoung

STOP!

Now shake your head a bit. Look around. Do you really want to be this WEAK, NEEDY, WHINNY GUY? REALLY?

Look , you have been GIVEN a lot of very good advice by many people that have been in your shoes. (Some have been in a lot worse places than this!)

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and tell your wife that you will not be disrespected like this ANYMORE!


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## carmen ohio

BlindsidedinVA said:


> OK quick update...After I packed put things in my car getting ready to leave she comes home. Said she thought about things all day went back and forth and weighed the choice she would have to make between us or him. She ultimately said she decided to work on us so she sent him an email saying she wouldn't be in contact and that she was going to try to fix out marriage. I didn't end up moving out as we talked all afternoon about stuff. She said I was right in that she never gave us a chance after she got back from deployment and that she was afraid to because she was scared she would still be in love with me while being in love with the other guy and that she would be stuck and miserable.
> 
> Our conversations have been more open and honest over the last couple of weeks. She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me. She doesn't know what she wants out of life or a relationship, especially ours. She also said that she feels like we missed out on the carefree clubbing/partying days and that while she didn't think it was important at the time that she wants to have that time now while in the future she wants to have more of the family time type of vacations. When she first said that she said "with you" but when we talked about it later she said she doesn't have an image in mind about who she's with just that she wants that family time.
> 
> She is pushing hard for a separation so she can "figure out what she wants" because she is unsure if she's unhappy or unfulfilled in the relationship and why and she doesn't think she can figure that out while I am around because she doesn't think about it unless she is alone.
> 
> Personally I think thats a bunch of BS because while we've been back together for almost a month it really is almost like we are completely separated emotionally except for when we have those conversations.
> 
> So as far as I can tell she has broken off communication with the OM, unless she's contacting him from work. She still talks to her other friends from deployment who are in contact with him so I don't know if they are passing messages between them or not but a couple of things are for sure. She's not happy in the relationship, I'm not happy because she's not committed 100% to us and working on us. I told her that I feel like she still has feelings for the OM and that its painful to sit here and watch that.
> 
> I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating. We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on but the romantic relationship is pretty much DOA and I don't know how to resuscitate it, if it even can be.


Dear BiV,

Your WW is in love with another man, tells you that to your face, tells you that she first wants a party life-style and on then a family life-style -- but maybe not with you -- and your response? -- _"We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on . . ."_

You haven't reestablished anything but you have established in your WW's mind that you are a weak cuckold who will put of with outrageous betrayal and bullsh*t from her if she just says some half-nice things to you.

You desperately need to read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay. Either that or get a new pair of balls.

Sorry for being so blunt but someone needed to do it.


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## alte Dame

I think your W is gone. She is back with you because she doesn't want to look bad to other people, not because she really wants her family.

Manning up here means not just standing up for yourself as a man and husband, but protecting your son. Your W is not a good mother. He deserves much better and it's absolutely, completely, totally your responsibility to give that to him.

Let her go. Don't separate. Divorce. Take full custody of your child. Move on to the life you deserve. Please.


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## tom67

alte Dame said:


> I think your W is gone. She is back with you because she doesn't want to look bad to other people, not because she really wants her family.
> 
> Manning up here means not just standing up for yourself as a man and husband, but protecting your son. Your W is not a good mother. He deserves much better and it's absolutely, completely, totally your responsibility to give that to him.
> 
> Let her go. Don't separate. Divorce. Take full custody of your child. Move on to the life you deserve. Please.


This sums it up. Please expose to everyone.:iagree:


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## Chaparral

Btw, you also have boundary issues. Your wife hss crossed all reasonable boundaries and you have not stood strong for yourself and your son.


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## newlife94

Soifon said:


> That's exactly what I was saying! The guy is in the reserves, trust me, no one cares!!! I know that sucks but that's just how it is.
> 
> If you want to expose to people that she works with for the sake of exposing and making her life uncomfortable because people will be talking about her behind her back or giving her the cold shoulder, that's great, I agree with that. But this notion here that people will lose jobs or have severe consequences outside of their home and friends circle just isn't reality.


If either of the have a security clearance- there WILL be consequences! Trust me, my WH had an affair while deployed. He came home for R&R, I knew about it but did not have ALL the evidence I needed to really stop it. BUT I got into his gadgets, copied everything and got what I needed, he was contacting the POSOW from MY home. I chose not to take his career but he knows even now during R that I wanted to and almost did. I still could have both of their careers- but I chose not to go that method.
I did expose to everyone- his family, my family, friends and POSOW family. EXPOSE now or you are just telling her- walk all over me I have no back bone and you will get away with all of this.

While she sees no consequences you are letting her live a fantasy life and she needs to be jerked out of it.

Hearing your story is bringing me major triggers... don't keep living like this, it will eat you alive.


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## newlife94

BlindsidedinVA said:


> No, I didn't see the letter. The only person I think knew about the affair from deployment she talks to on a regular basis (and I am 99% sure had an affair herself while on the deployment too)...and when she's back home in a few weeks actually lives a couple of miles from where we live.
> 
> I've told her that it bothers me the she even still has him on her google chat contacts list and that to get over him she should remove him from that list and remove all possibility of contacting him by accident whether drunken night or whatever. I told her that I feel like divorce is an escape hatch that I would rather not use but she has to be committed to us for that to not be an option.


YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!! Believe me! This happened to me.
My H is Army, had an A while deployed, came home for R&R and I saw POSOW on his Skype account. I told him that was not acceptable, he said he would not delete her- she was "just a friend and important to him". At this time I did not have all that I needed to expose but I was gathering to have enough proof.
He returned to Iraq and skyped with her daily. I let him walk all over me. DO NOT let her do this.
You need to move out, make it real. Do not be her door mat. It was not until I had the real proof, exposed and talked to the lawyer that sh&t got real to him. He knew I was done, the kids and I were moving and he had no choice- I was not a doormat or second choice. 
He was 1 week from coming home, I packed his stuff. He called me every hour all day long for that week. He did not sleep. He wrote the NC letter- sent it to everyone, including her family and copied me. He has done ALL the heavy lifting to fix this or it would be OVER.
Even after a year of R, he still does all the work. Triggers happen, he knows it was his doing and helps me through it.
If your wife is not sorry, you need to move out.


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## warlock07

Why are you willing to settle for so little? you are prolonging the inevitable while destroying your self respect and esteem, rationalizing that it is committment. Most people in an an absive relationship don't realize it because the abuse escalates slowly. You to are in an abusive and loveless marriage. But looks like the detachment happened over a period of time making it hard for you to see the reality of the situation and how broken the relationship is.


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## Acabado

Believe her
She doesn't love you, loves another man.
She doesn't want to be a married woman anyomore, she wants party, she's bored being a mom and a wife.
She' not in a "fog", she's telling you exactly what she wants, who she is. She choosing, dayly. She just only wants your permission. She will do anyway with or without it. 

I'm so sorry man. Move on. It only can go worse. Imagine next deployment/training or however it's called. Ther's nmo future. She changed. She's not going back to the woma she was once.


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## itom72

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating. We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on but the romantic relationship is pretty much DOA and I don't know how to resuscitate it, if it even can be.


Your wife is not supposed to be your friend, she's supposed to be your *LOVER* - your *one and only*. You, in turn, are supposed to be *her* one and only.

You don't have a marriage, you have a one-sided relationship, one that allows her, *by virtue of your consent*, to exploit you at every turn.

Get this parasite out of your life, PRONTO. Put distance between the two of you, and make it your goal every day to work on YOU, so that you end up being a man of resolve and self-dignity.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Acabado said:


> Believe her
> She doesn't love you, loves another man.
> She doesn't want to be a married woman anyomore, she wants party, she's bored being a mom and a wife.
> She' not in a "fog", she's telling you exactly what she wants, who she is. She choosing, dayly. She just only wants your permission. She will do anyway with or without it.
> 
> I'm so sorry man. Move on. It only can go worse. Imagine next deployment/training or however it's called. Ther's nmo future. She changed. She's not going back to the woma she was once.


I want to add to this that she wants your permission BECAUSE she wants to feel better about herself. Again, she isn't doing that for you, she is doing it for herself. Yes, she will proceed with or without your permission. Having your permission just makes it easier.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

She is pushing hard for separation so that she can explore her inner slvt guilt free. She was already separated from you during your deployment and that didn't go well.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

"She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me."

I love and care deeply about my mom, my sister and my daughters. I don't have sex with them. This is not a marriage and you need to stop pretending you can make this work. Go find somebody who loves you, cares deeply for you and wants to be your lover.


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## SaltInWound

newlife94 said:


> YOU ARE MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!! Believe me! This happened to me.
> My H is Army, had an A while deployed, came home for R&R and I saw POSOW on his Skype account. I told him that was not acceptable, he said he would not delete her- she was "just a friend and important to him". At this time I did not have all that I needed to expose but I was gathering to have enough proof.
> He returned to Iraq and skyped with her daily. I let him walk all over me. DO NOT let her do this.
> You need to move out, make it real. Do not be her door mat. It was not until I had the real proof, exposed and talked to the lawyer that sh&t got real to him. He knew I was done, the kids and I were moving and he had no choice- I was not a doormat or second choice.
> He was 1 week from coming home, I packed his stuff. He called me every hour all day long for that week. He did not sleep. He wrote the NC letter- sent it to everyone, including her family and copied me. He has done ALL the heavy lifting to fix this or it would be OVER.
> Even after a year of R, he still does all the work. Triggers happen, he knows it was his doing and helps me through it.
> If your wife is not sorry, you need to move out.


:yay::smnotworthy::woohoo:[


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## newlife94

SaltInWound said:


> :yay::smnotworthy::woohoo:[




Might I also add, he lived out of the garage with his sh!t in trashbags for quite a while. MAKE IT REAL, I finally did. I did not even entertain R until he had proven to me for months really~ that I could even believe that he was all in. 

She is cake eating~ which is exactly what my H did when he pulled the "just a friend" crap and I did not stand up for myself. If I had called BS right then and there, kicked him out over R&R ... things would have been much different for the next 5 months of my life. Instead he carried on the EA part of the A (POSOW was deployed with him but her deployment was over before his) and all the while kept me stringing along. Those were the worst months of my life, I kicked myself every day for not standing up to him.
Take care of yourself, you CAN and WILL survive without her. She has shown you the ultimate disrespect and not only do you not look at her the same, she clearly views you differently. As long as you let her get away with it, SHE WILL.
There is no reason why you should be wanting her back at this point, she should be apologizing, showing remorse and working to make you feel like she is worthy of a second chance~ NOT the other way around. 

We have all been there in some fashion, please don't wait any longer. EXPOSE it now.


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## SaltInWound

newlife94 said:


> Might I also add, *he lived out of the garage with his sh!t in trashbags for quite a while*. MAKE IT REAL, I finally did. I did not even entertain R until he had proven to me for months really~ that I could even believe that he was all in.


Not trying to hijack the thread, but YOU GO GIRL!


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## newlife94

SaltInWound said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread, but YOU GO GIRL!



Thank you! I really feel like I could not have known what to do or what was going to happen next with out TAM. I received wonderful advice, straight to the point and what I needed to hear when I needed it. 
I really want to share what happened to me so that someone else can be helped by my story~ the same as everybody here. We all want to help through the worst thing that we never thought we would face.
But we are facing it.... and what we do when we are faced with it really does change the outcome, even it is only for us. We cannot change our spouse who decides to commit the ultimate betrayal, but do not have to allow them to change who we are or treat us like the door mat they want us to be.


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## turnera

BlindsidedinVA said:


> I've talked to my close friends about it and some of her close friends who are mutual friends. I don't want family involved because they already have boundary issues and I just don't want to deal with that crap right now.


 Oh please. You are just afraid of her anger. Just admit it.


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## WTHiswrong

BlindsidedinVA said:


> OK quick update...After I packed put things in my car getting ready to leave she comes home. Said she thought about things all day went back and forth and weighed the choice she would have to make between us or him. She ultimately said she decided to work on us so she sent him an email saying she wouldn't be in contact and that she was going to try to fix out marriage. I didn't end up moving out as we talked all afternoon about stuff. She said I was right in that she never gave us a chance after she got back from deployment and that she was afraid to because she was scared she would still be in love with me while being in love with the other guy and that she would be stuck and miserable.
> 
> Our conversations have been more open and honest over the last couple of weeks. She says that while she knows she loves me and cares deeply about me that she isn't attracted to me and that she feels no romantic feelings towards me. She doesn't know what she wants out of life or a relationship, especially ours. She also said that she feels like we missed out on the carefree clubbing/partying days and that while she didn't think it was important at the time that she wants to have that time now while in the future she wants to have more of the family time type of vacations. When she first said that she said "with you" but when we talked about it later she said she doesn't have an image in mind about who she's with just that she wants that family time.
> 
> She is pushing hard for a separation so she can "figure out what she wants" because she is unsure if she's unhappy or unfulfilled in the relationship and why and she doesn't think she can figure that out while I am around because she doesn't think about it unless she is alone.
> 
> Personally I think thats a bunch of BS because while we've been back together for almost a month it really is almost like we are completely separated emotionally except for when we have those conversations.
> 
> So as far as I can tell she has broken off communication with the OM, unless she's contacting him from work. She still talks to her other friends from deployment who are in contact with him so I don't know if they are passing messages between them or not but a couple of things are for sure. She's not happy in the relationship, I'm not happy because she's not committed 100% to us and working on us. I told her that I feel like she still has feelings for the OM and that its painful to sit here and watch that.
> 
> I don't want a separation, by any means. I don't want to split apart our family, I don't want to put any more space between us as we are just not getting back to really communicating. We've reestablished that friendship that we built our relationship on but the romantic relationship is pretty much DOA and I don't know how to resuscitate it, if it even can be.


You should have packed the car and never looked back. I think she's just dragging you along until she figures out she wants the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WTHiswrong

Shaggy said:


> Sorry, but all she has done is buy herself time. She didn't choose to work on the marriage at all. That's why she wants a separation. It gives her freedom to be single and to continue contact with the OM while keeping you from divorcing her.
> 
> If I remember the OM hasn't gotten back in town, AND, potentially she and he could face fallout from their affair at work.
> 
> So what she has done is take your threat of standing up for yourself and insisting she choose you or him, and she turned your resolve into a bluff.
> 
> I recommend the NC letter others have mentioned by in addition:
> 
> 1. No separation, separation instantly mean you file and leave. She has months of separation on deployment and she used it to cheat. These months did nothing good for the marriage, they only killed it.
> 
> 2. She has to spend 15-20 hours per week with YOU one on one. Not watching TV, not complaining about work, but doing couples things.
> 
> 3. The complete lack of physical attraction means she's still saving hersef for the OM. I predict that she still plans on meeting up with him when he's back in town. Ok, she doesn't want to jump in the sack with you. She can hold your hand, hug upon arrival and departure and kiss you.
> 
> 4. She gives you compete and total transparency to phone text and email and FB. Yes she's gonna be using work or a burner phone to contact him, so you need a var in her car still.
> 
> 5. No girls nights out. None. If she's working on the marriage she's gotta be putting the effort in. She gotta be dating you, so going out means going out with you.
> 
> 6. If she wants to club and party, she goes only with you. Those places are hookup spots. Singles go there to get noticed and get laid. If that's the phase she she really wants, being free to go home with anyone she wants, then file now and save the grief.
> 
> The only way you can R is to set the boundaries hard and refuse to let her play you, unfortunately I think she's currently taken it under ground.
> 
> She's buying time and trying not to look quite as awful as she is.
> 
> She's said she chooses to work on the marriage, then accept nothing less from her. She doesn't get to work on the marriage and be single too. She's a mom and a wife and so her days of being single are either over for good or you file.
> 
> Remember you can't nice her into bring a faithful wife.


I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WTHiswrong

Was wondering how things were going with you BIVA. Hope your doing alright.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BlindsidedinVA

Hey, sorry been a little busy. My son had ear tubes put in in early March and the scoped his airways and found that his trachea is barely open down by his lungs so its been round after round of doctors visits, sleep studies, etc. I've barely had time to breathe much less get on here and talk to you guys. We're looking at likely another surgery within the next couple months to help with his breathing. 

Here's the current status. We're still together...slowly working on our relationship. Not necessarily for staying together but just overall improving communication and figuring things out. 

As you can imagine with everything going on with our son we haven't had much time to really focus on us and if we're going to work out. 

I've worked on my own dependency issues and am at a point now where no matter what happens with us I'll be fine. Sure if she decides that she doesn't want our relationship I'll be hurt but I'm not hinging my happiness on her. I've started focusing on being a driver in my own life and not a passenger in hers. I applied and got accepted to a graduate program which I can do partially online until I run out of courses to take then I would have to go to campus. I took pictures for a friend's wedding and am looking at setting up a side business doing that. Started biking and playing soccer again which has helped me refocus my energies. 

Overall, I am in a much better place and thats all that matters. Being in limbo sucks but I laid it out for her last night.

We have 3 options right now:
1) Commit to the relationship and work on it
2) Stick in limbo
3) End it and move on with our lives.

Right now I want #1, and am willing to deal with #2 for a while longer but I will reach a point where I am done and I don't want to reach that point. She doesn't want me to reach that point either but she just doesn't know how to get to a point where she can choose #1 without thinking she's giving in. 

I basically told her this: "Look, I love you and I care deeply about you. I want things to work between us and I want to be married to you but limbo is killing me. I will be here for a while but I will reach that point sometime and then the decision isn't yours anymore." 

So anyways, thats where things stand right now. I'm not focusing on the other man anymore, I'm not focusing on what I did to cause this (because really no matter what I did she has to own up to what she did). I'm focusing on our relationship and whether or not we can move forward with it.


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## Cabsy

It's good you're doing stuff for yourself now and working on being in a better place. She is still driving though, and even if you aren't in the passenger seat of the same car, you're driving right behind her and hoping she's going where you're going. 

She's still in power, still stringing you along, and you're still allowing it to happen even though she's clearly in the wrong? That's likely a big part of the problem. A wishy washy "I may decide to leave you at some point if you don't make up your mind to stay with me" is not really a projection of strength. It's better than clinging to her heels, but not by a whole lot.

I do think it's great you're trying to work on things, but I get the sense... it's you working on things, not so much her. It should be her proving things to you, making everything up to you, reassuring you, waiting on YOU to make up your mind as to whether or not you want HER. Not the other way around.

She doesn't want to "give in?" Wtfuwt? Don't put all your eggs in that relationship basket, especially if the dynamics remain the way there are now. I'd start stacking even more of those eggs in your own basket.


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## turnera

What exactly IS she doing to fix things?


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## BlindsidedinVA

Cabsy said:


> It's good you're doing stuff for yourself now and working on being in a better place. She is still driving though, and even if you aren't in the passenger seat of the same car, you're driving right behind her and hoping she's going where you're going.
> 
> She's still in power, still stringing you along, and you're still allowing it to happen even though she's clearly in the wrong? That's likely a big part of the problem. A wishy washy "I may decide to leave you at some point if you don't make up your mind to stay with me" is not really a projection of strength. It's better than clinging to her heels, but not by a whole lot.
> 
> I do think it's great you're trying to work on things, but I get the sense... it's you working on things, not so much her. It should be her proving things to you, making everything up to you, reassuring you, waiting on YOU to make up your mind as to whether or not you want HER. Not the other way around.
> 
> She doesn't want to "give in?" Wtfuwt? Don't put your eggs in that relationship basket, especially if the dynamics remain the way there are now. I'd start stacking even more of those eggs in your own basket.


Agreed, she is still driving, and I'm trying to drive my own car in the same path for now. But as I focus on myself and my son and what I want for us, I will find my own path. 

And I do also agree that she should be the one making things up to me, and she's done some stuff but its not everything that I want. So yes...she is still stringing me a long a bit and yes I am letting it happen but honestly I'm not strong enough myself to just pull the bandaid off. Which is why I've been focusing on myself the past several months.


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## BlindsidedinVA

turnera said:


> What exactly IS she doing to fix things?


For one, she hasn't left. I told her if she doesn't want the relationship that she can leave whenever she wants, I'm not tying her down. So something is keeping her from doing that, aside from our son as she can take him whenever she wants too. She's been open and honest with me about what she's up to when we're not together. She's opening up to me more about what she's feeling rather than running to her friends and telling them everything while leaving me in the dark.

Its small stuff right now and obviously I want more that just the communication but its getting better.


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## turnera

I know what's keeping her from leaving.

Your money.


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## BlindsidedinVA

turnera said:


> I know what's keeping her from leaving.
> 
> Your money.


actually...no she makes more than I do


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## turnera

Ok, let me rephrase - the life that you two have due to your money being mingled with hers. The appearance she gets to keep. The help with kids and house. The not having to tell family. That's what I mean by money.


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## warlock07

> For one, she hasn't left.


She hasn't left because she doesn't have to. Your feelings don't figure in the reason she is staying back. Maybe guilt or temporary convenience. Or maybe finances are better that way.


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## See_Listen_Love

Oh man, the reactions are a bit to quick on this. It may well be that there will be possibilities for R. So, if you can communicate, just do it. D is always possible, communicating is not.

Maybe it is an idea to balance talking to each other about difficult issues with some regular time together spent on a fun activity, could be as simple as walking or running. At these times speaking about the issues is forbidden, to create a bonding experience, apart from the argument issues.


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## Regga

So how do you feel about where you are at? Do you feel confident about this direction? You don't have to answer to me, but to yourself...every single day! 

What does R look like for you? Because it's apparent the definition of R (in your eyes) is different from what TAM members know. Tell us how the understanding of R works so you don't have to fight the advice of others. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PreRaphaelite

BlindsidedinVA said:


> We have 3 options right now:
> 1) Commit to the relationship and work on it
> 2) Stick in limbo
> 3) End it and move on with our lives.
> 
> Right now I want #1, and am willing to deal with #2 for a while longer but I will reach a point where I am done and I don't want to reach that point. She doesn't want me to reach that point either* but she just doesn't know how to get to a point where she can choose #1 without thinking she's giving in. *
> .


Excuse me what? Explain to me what she means by "not giving in"???


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## LongWalk

Not to make an excuse for you wife, but it is clear that the military does not care that much about marriages. There have been articles in the papers about women who signed up thinking they were getting a job, having kids without a spouse and being deployed. The children are then dumped on grandparents or other family. How well can these soldiers serve while Skyping their infant children from overseas?

You are not only dealing with a cheater. You are facing a system that grinds marriages to shreds. If your wife left the service and got a civilian job in her field, your R would stand a better chance.

Her career is a trigger. Don't go to Florida for vacation, another trigger.


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