# Can I ever forgive her craziness?



## maxthemost

*She stopped the minivan in traffic-* it was on the drive home from the grocery store on an arterial with no shoulder in an industrial area. She stopped the vehicle with our 3 kids inside and started to interrogate me "tell me why you left him alone in the aisle of the store!"

*There was never any abandonment * When we arrived at the grocery store she had taken off across the parking lot with the youngest and left me with the other two. We started our own shopping and we were doing fine. But when she found us in the dairy aisle she parked the shopping cart (and our youngest) next to us and walked away leaving me with 2 carts and 3 kids. I waited until she came back into sight and was walking towards the shopping cart before I continued with the other two kids. There was never any abandonment (as far as I know).

*Cars honked and swerved around us.*But no words or excuses or anything could change her mind. I had done wrong period. She parked us in the street and wouldnt move the car. I insisted I was not going to argue with her or discuss the issue on the drive home but she continued to demand an answer. Again, "why did you leave him alone!!!". 5 minutes passed as I begged her to move us out of the street. 

*The 6th minute we spent yelling at each other who would drive.*Finally she said if I dont answer her then I should just get out. Now I was starting to get angry. She was interrogating me about being reckless with our youngest kid while putting our entire family in a real state of reckless endangerment on the road. I took the keys out of the ignition and insisted I would drive. 

*The act that lead to my arrest.* I finally had to open her door and pull her out by the arm in order to get the kids out of danger and home safely. I would have allowed her back in the minivan but she was screaming and I was afraid she would pound on the window and maybe break it so I drove away. We all collapsed and fell asleep on the sofas when we arrived home as relief for the stress of the situation everybody experienced.

*90 minutes later the police were at my door. * They arrested me for DV4, bruised my arms by squeezing tightly and cuffed me so hard my fingers were tingling on the hour and a half drive to the county holding tank. I spent the night with small-time drug peddlers and shoplifters and the next morning was released with a no contact order which keeps me from entering my own home (of which I pay 100% of the mortgage, insurance, utilities, maintenance....) and from talking to my wife.

*She wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it. *Now I'm facing a jury trial and will have spent over $7000 just in lawyer fees, not to mention housing, clothes, lost time from work.... And surely this mess will be over soon but how can I ever trust my wife again? Why would she do that crap to me and then call the cops? We have an awesome home, amazing kids, and so much potential but just thinking of her makes me sick to my stomach. she wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it.

*yes, she is a nut case.* call it a personality disorder or borderline psychotic or manic depression or whatever psychologist term you want to assign to it. But she wont get help or even accept she has any disorder. Half the time she pretends like she doesnt even remember the crazy stuff she does or says. This is not fiction and I am not a troller.

*I love her but this is too much. Please help us!*


----------



## EleGirl

You made the mistake of using physical force to try to get out of the road. The right course of action would have been for you to dial 911 and tell them that your wife parked the car in the middle of traffic and is putting you and your children in danger.

If you are the sole support of your wife and children, how does she intended to support herself and the children if you are convicted? Does she have a job?

ETA: If she does stuff like this often, I think you need to reconsider whether if you actually love her. This is not someone who you should love. Your feels are definitely misplaced.


----------



## Herschel

You can ever fix it. EVER. 

Think about it like this, is this worth living the rest of your life with. When you are 50, 60, 70? You’ll likely end up killing her, or yourself, just because you won’t know what else to do.

Leave now, it’s the perfect time.


----------



## maxthemost

If I'm convicted then she will definitely lose the house and be on the street with the kids as we barely make ends meet now and my salary is double hers... unless my mom takes her in. I was disowned by her for marrying this woman so completely cut ties. Wife works full time but without my income couldnt even get a cheap studio while providing for the family.



We have been through a lot of crap together and managed to come out on top. 3 kids, 2 continents, living together, then apart, then together, buying a farm.. It has always been extremely difficult and usually gets harder when everything is finally going well and times should be good.

She was hung over from drinking and smoking pot the night before and her two friends sleeping over. Its also kinda a **** the dude attitude she gets when with her friends. But doesnt take any responsibility for her actions or poor judgement that day.

No marks or bruises.. just anger and spite...enough to call the cops and then say I deserve jail..then she complains what a strict and f'd up criminal system we have.

Doesn't want to learn anything about the legal system..just complain about it.

At this point I'm only still here for the kids. If I get convicted then will have to leave her for good. Rent a cheap room and desperately try to rebuild the career I spent 20 years trying to get off the ground.

Goodbye daddy role model. Nobody will be around to save the kids from the middle of the street next time she does something nutty.


----------



## sokillme

Spending your life with crazy is a hard life. Why one would intentionally do that is beyond me.


----------



## SunCMars

I was 'you', then...

Still am.

This does not get better, age slows our bodies down.
Not so much our minds.
The mind games continue.

Leave now, pay the fee.
You may end up broke, broke but free.

Please.

I was there in some other traffic, in some other time frame regarded.
I was busy driving, my ears and my torso remained unguarded.

It does not get better.



THRD-


----------



## BigToe

maxthemost said:


> *yes, she is a nut case.* call it a personality disorder or borderline psychotic or manic depression or whatever psychologist term you want to assign to it. But she wont get help or even accept she has any disorder.


Have you accepted your own disorders and that you need help?

Here's what I see, someone who is just as dramatic as his wife and needs help with anger management. Your posting is written in the form of a novel which I find really strange and only convinces me there are two sides of this story. You could have helped to defuse the situation by simply answering her and telling her whatever she wanted to hear. You exited your side of the vehicle, went to her side, opened the door and forcefully removed her and thereby tripling the danger of being in the road and one-or-both-of-you potentially getting hit by traffic. Then in dramatic fashion, abandoned your wife on the road leaving her to walk on foot on the very road that you claim was so dangerous to be stopped on. All in front of your kids. This is an experience they will be talking about for years even after you are gone. When they are sitting together at a holiday gathering they will invariably talk about the day daddy ripped mommy out of the car and drove away. Using your kids as justification for your actions is not cool and the courts will see through that as well.

Your wife doesn't want to talk about it, wants to forget it ever happened, because it was embarrassing. She was abandoned by her husband on the road, had to get picked up by police, her husband got arrested for domestic violence which was almost certainly posted to the public in a paper circulation somewhere and is certainly searchable online by anyone that knows your real name. AND, it's all going to be exposed to the public when you go to court. All for what...an argument over a kid in a shopping cart. You wonder why she doesn't want to talk about it and just forget it ever happened? I don't.

I think you both need professional help. This didn't just happen out of the blue, there's some history leading up to it. I think you both create a caustic relationship for each other and need to fix it.


----------



## happyhusband0005

BigToe said:


> Have you accepted your own disorders and that you need help?
> 
> Here's what I see, someone who is just as dramatic as his wife and needs help with anger management. Your posting is written in the form of a novel which I find really strange and only convinces me there are two sides of this story. You could have helped to defuse the situation by simply answering her and telling her whatever she wanted to hear. You exited your side of the vehicle, went to her side, opened the door and forcefully removed her and thereby tripling the danger of being in the road and one-or-both-of-you potentially getting hit by traffic. Then in dramatic fashion, abandoned your wife on the road leaving her to walk on foot on the very road that you claim was so dangerous to be stopped on. All in front of your kids. This is an experience they will be talking about for years even after you are gone. When they are sitting together at a holiday gathering they will invariably talk about the day daddy ripped mommy out of the car and drove away. Using your kids as justification for your actions is not cool and the courts will see through that as well.
> 
> Your wife doesn't want to talk about it, wants to forget it ever happened, because it was embarrassing. She was abandoned by her husband on the road, had to get picked up by police, her husband got arrested for domestic violence which was almost certainly posted to the public in a paper circulation somewhere and is certainly searchable online by anyone that knows your real name. AND, it's all going to be exposed to the public when you go to court. All for what...an argument over a kid in a shopping cart. You wonder why she doesn't want to talk about it and just forget it ever happened? I don't.
> 
> I think you both need professional help. This didn't just happen out of the blue, there's some history leading up to it. I think you both create a caustic relationship for each other and need to fix it.


I agree with all of this. Your relationship is very very unhealthy. You make decisions in the best interest of your kids when your a parent and that includes how you interact with a crazy spouse. You don't answer crazy with crazy you answer crazy with calm strength and do anything you can to protect the children from harm. 

You both need serious help or this is going to spiral and you kids will end up in foster care.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Honestly i'm not sure what sure what kind of advice we can give you, your reaction to her action set the ball in motion and now some things are beyond your control...yes she may very well be slightly unstable, but that is the least of your problem right now. You need to address your legal issues first and sadly this will now follow you for the rest of your life, unless you can legally remove it some time in the future. You have no control over her actions only yours, and if you think for one second she will never do this again, you are sadly wrong...for now i would listen to your lawyer. After that then file for divorce regardless of the economic consequences, otherwise be ready to spend time in jail.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Spend your money on a divorce lawyer, who will know a good defense lawyer, who both know this process
Both lawyers will have gone through this exact circumstance a thousand times.

They'll likely know the judge you'll get, or group of judges as options. 

In this very common situation all will want to move the entire case in/through/out of the legal system as swiftly as possible because all have more important cases on dockets.

Your best bet is getting a team that knows each other well and know they can get this gone. Here it will be "who you know" in the system.

Spend your money as needed now, on your legal team, before she does.

Absolutely don't use lawyers who don't already know each other. Get them before she does.

Do it quickly. The longer she has to plan, the more lies she can make up and contaminate the playing field.

This will happen over and over until worse and more expensive remedies are required.

Spend your money quickly as needed before she ties up any joint accounts. And she will. Make no mistakes. Been putting of any dental, health, or new clothes needs, get yourself set now. 

Trouble is coming my friend. Don't doubt it.


----------



## BluesPower

Why are you still with your wife? 

Do you enjoy the pain abuse that you get from her?

Do you understand that you are hurting your children by staying with her? 

Do you understand that you are never going to be able to fix her? 

Do you understand that you are wasting your life and putting your children in danger by your weak lack of action with a crazy woman? 

Are any of these questions enough to wake you up so that you can divorce her, if you don't go to jail, that is???


----------



## happyhusband0005

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Spend your money on a divorce lawyer, who will know a good defense lawyer, who both know this process
> Both lawyers will have gone through this exact circumstance a thousand times.
> 
> They'll likely know the judge you'll get, or group of judges as options.
> 
> In this very common situation all will want to move the entire case in/through/out of the legal system as swiftly as possible because all have more important cases on dockets.
> 
> Your best bet is getting a team that knows each other well and know they can get this gone. Here it will be "who you know" in the system.
> 
> Spend your money as needed now, on your legal team, before she does.
> 
> Absolutely don't use lawyers who don't already know each other. Get them before she does.
> 
> Do it quickly. The longer she has to plan, the more lies she can make up and contaminate the playing field.
> 
> This will happen over and over until worse and more expensive remedies are required.
> 
> Spend your money quickly as needed before she ties up any joint accounts. And she will. Make no mistakes. Been putting of any dental, health, or new clothes needs, get yourself set now.
> 
> Trouble is coming my friend. Don't doubt it.


Let me throw out some advice that anyone can use. I got this from my business attorney when I was helping my sister with her divorce. Meet with every good divorce attorney in town. Do a quick 15-30 minute consultation which they will usually do for free. This way since you have already met with them normal ethics will prevent them from taking her as a client because they will have a conflict. This way she can only work with second tier divorce attorneys. 

On your criminal charges I think even a half way decent criminal lawyer should be able to get the charges reduced or wiped. You had a very real reason to fear for the safety of your children. No you didn't handle it the way you should have but at least you got your kids out of danger.


----------



## ConanHub

maxthemost said:


> *She stopped the minivan in traffic-* it was on the drive home from the grocery store on an arterial with no shoulder in an industrial area. She stopped the vehicle with our 3 kids inside and started to interrogate me "tell me why you left him alone in the aisle of the store!"
> 
> *There was never any abandonment * When we arrived at the grocery store she had taken off across the parking lot with the youngest and left me with the other two. We started our own shopping and we were doing fine. But when she found us in the dairy aisle she parked the shopping cart (and our youngest) next to us and walked away leaving me with 2 carts and 3 kids. I waited until she came back into sight and was walking towards the shopping cart before I continued with the other two kids. There was never any abandonment (as far as I know).
> 
> *Cars honked and swerved around us.*But no words or excuses or anything could change her mind. I had done wrong period. She parked us in the street and wouldnt move the car. I insisted I was not going to argue with her or discuss the issue on the drive home but she continued to demand an answer. Again, "why did you leave him alone!!!". 5 minutes passed as I begged her to move us out of the street.
> 
> *The 6th minute we spent yelling at each other who would drive.*Finally she said if I dont answer her then I should just get out. Now I was starting to get angry. She was interrogating me about being reckless with our youngest kid while putting our entire family in a real state of reckless endangerment on the road. I took the keys out of the ignition and insisted I would drive.
> 
> *The act that lead to my arrest.* I finally had to open her door and pull her out by the arm in order to get the kids out of danger and home safely. I would have allowed her back in the minivan but she was screaming and I was afraid she would pound on the window and maybe break it so I drove away. We all collapsed and fell asleep on the sofas when we arrived home as relief for the stress of the situation everybody experienced.
> 
> *90 minutes later the police were at my door. * They arrested me for DV4, bruised my arms by squeezing tightly and cuffed me so hard my fingers were tingling on the hour and a half drive to the county holding tank. I spent the night with small-time drug peddlers and shoplifters and the next morning was released with a no contact order which keeps me from entering my own home (of which I pay 100% of the mortgage, insurance, utilities, maintenance....) and from talking to my wife.
> 
> *She wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it. *Now I'm facing a jury trial and will have spent over $7000 just in lawyer fees, not to mention housing, clothes, lost time from work.... And surely this mess will be over soon but how can I ever trust my wife again? Why would she do that crap to me and then call the cops? We have an awesome home, amazing kids, and so much potential but just thinking of her makes me sick to my stomach. she wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it.
> 
> *yes, she is a nut case.* call it a personality disorder or borderline psychotic or manic depression or whatever psychologist term you want to assign to it. But she wont get help or even accept she has any disorder. Half the time she pretends like she doesnt even remember the crazy stuff she does or says. This is not fiction and I am not a troller.
> 
> *I love her but this is too much. Please help us!*


You should have called the cops when she endangered you all but the crime she committed can still be prosecuted.

Do your best and be ruthless to save your children from this deranged and provenly dangerous woman.


----------



## Ursula

Wow, that's a really awful situation that you're in, and I'm really sorry that you're there. 

The way that you describe the grocery shopping trip, you did nothing wrong. It doesn't sound to me like you abandoned your child in a shopping cart. How far away was your wife when you started walking with your other 2 kids?

As for stopping the car in moving traffic, that's just dangerous. Was she aware of how much danger she put her entire family in by doing this? I think it was a good move for you to take the car keys, but where I think you went wrong is leaving your wife standing in traffic. Even if you had to take her hand and lead her to the passenger side and pretty much put her inside the vehicle. I'm not sure if she deserved that, but she certainly sounds unstable.

So, she's the one who endangered your family, and you're the one in jail with a no contact order? That sounds kind of backwards to me. She cannot continue to pretend that nothing happened; this is something that needs to be talked about. Here's what I would do in your shoes:

1. If you're not allowed in the house, you shouldn't be paying 100% of the mortgage and bills. Yes, contribute 50% (your kids are still there, after all), but she can kick in the other 50%.

2. Personally, I would head for the hills, and file for sole custody of the kids, but if you DO want to work it out, you guys NEED counselling, and she needs individual counselling. 

3. Since this is her issue, she should be helping to cover the costs of all this crap. Why do you have to cover it when you just tried to protect your family?

4. I could never trust someone like her again.


----------



## Betrayedone

The answer is NO!


----------



## Mr. Nail

maxthemost said:


> -snip-
> 
> She was hung over from drinking and smoking pot the night before and her two friends sleeping over. -snip- .


Instead of legalizing recreational marijuana, We should bring back prohibition. Child endangerment fueled by substance abuse. Some states would have locked you both up.


----------



## x598

OP
some tough love (some here call it a 2x4) coming your way.

you are a BIGGER idiot then your wife is.

the argument was nothing more then her "being right" and you WRONG. when it didn't go her way in the car, she upped the ante and called the police and had you arrested. she didn't get a "you are right" from you...so in her mind she got it from the police when you were arrested.

you are dealing with a psychopath who will stoop to unknown low's to win.

I don't car how much you love her...….serve her with divorce papers today. this isn't even remotely fixable.


----------



## Rob_1

No. He won't divorce her or do anything, you can see that a Mile away.


----------



## sunsetmist

So, this will be a test case. Is being accused of DV enough? Is being married to Ms. Toxic Drama addicting? Stay tuned for the full story...

BTW: @Ragnar Ragnasson haas given you golden advice--for free. Will you take it????


----------



## ConanHub

sunsetmist said:


> So, this will be a test case. Is being accused of DV enough? Is being married to Ms. Toxic Drama addicting? Stay tuned for the full story...
> 
> BTW: @Ragnar Ragnasson haas given you golden advice--for free. Will you take it????


QFT.


----------



## 269370

maxthemost said:


> *She stopped the minivan in traffic-* it was on the drive home from the grocery store on an arterial with no shoulder in an industrial area. She stopped the vehicle with our 3 kids inside and started to interrogate me "tell me why you left him alone in the aisle of the store!"
> 
> 
> 
> *There was never any abandonment * When we arrived at the grocery store she had taken off across the parking lot with the youngest and left me with the other two. We started our own shopping and we were doing fine. But when she found us in the dairy aisle she parked the shopping cart (and our youngest) next to us and walked away leaving me with 2 carts and 3 kids. I waited until she came back into sight and was walking towards the shopping cart before I continued with the other two kids. There was never any abandonment (as far as I know).
> 
> 
> 
> *Cars honked and swerved around us.*But no words or excuses or anything could change her mind. I had done wrong period. She parked us in the street and wouldnt move the car. I insisted I was not going to argue with her or discuss the issue on the drive home but she continued to demand an answer. Again, "why did you leave him alone!!!". 5 minutes passed as I begged her to move us out of the street.
> 
> 
> 
> *The 6th minute we spent yelling at each other who would drive.*Finally she said if I dont answer her then I should just get out. Now I was starting to get angry. She was interrogating me about being reckless with our youngest kid while putting our entire family in a real state of reckless endangerment on the road. I took the keys out of the ignition and insisted I would drive.
> 
> 
> 
> *The act that lead to my arrest.* I finally had to open her door and pull her out by the arm in order to get the kids out of danger and home safely. I would have allowed her back in the minivan but she was screaming and I was afraid she would pound on the window and maybe break it so I drove away. We all collapsed and fell asleep on the sofas when we arrived home as relief for the stress of the situation everybody experienced.
> 
> 
> 
> *90 minutes later the police were at my door. * They arrested me for DV4, bruised my arms by squeezing tightly and cuffed me so hard my fingers were tingling on the hour and a half drive to the county holding tank. I spent the night with small-time drug peddlers and shoplifters and the next morning was released with a no contact order which keeps me from entering my own home (of which I pay 100% of the mortgage, insurance, utilities, maintenance....) and from talking to my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> *She wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it. *Now I'm facing a jury trial and will have spent over $7000 just in lawyer fees, not to mention housing, clothes, lost time from work.... And surely this mess will be over soon but how can I ever trust my wife again? Why would she do that crap to me and then call the cops? We have an awesome home, amazing kids, and so much potential but just thinking of her makes me sick to my stomach. she wants to pretend like nothing ever happened and not even discuss it.
> 
> 
> 
> *yes, she is a nut case.* call it a personality disorder or borderline psychotic or manic depression or whatever psychologist term you want to assign to it. But she wont get help or even accept she has any disorder. Half the time she pretends like she doesnt even remember the crazy stuff she does or says. This is not fiction and I am not a troller.
> 
> 
> 
> *I love her but this is too much. Please help us!*




I don’t quite understand the story: what did she get so pissed off about? That you left one of the kids somewhere without supervision? What actually happened to provoke such a reaction? It sounds as though some information is missing.
Has everything been ok prior to this with you two?
It seems like a very strong reaction to something trivial (as far as I can tell). Maybe she tried to get you to listen or answer her by stopping on the road; were you ignoring her?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAMAT

Max.

You wrote, *She was hung over from drinking and smoking pot the night before and her two friends sleeping over.* 

Sounds like she wants to be single and you are in the way of that goal, hence the irrational anger towards you which can erupt at any moment for any reason. 

Given what you wrote it is reasonably likely she wants to cheat on you, has cheated or is cheating. 

If you are barely making it how does she have money for pot and booze, I suspect she is also incapable of financial responsibility, and will likely destroy your life with excessive spending and debt long term. 

Tamat


----------



## maxthemost

*Missing ingredient*

My wife was within 20 feet when I left our youngest. Never any abandonment.

Simple answer is jealousy. I have an older daughter from a previous relationship. I talked with her and her mother that morning about their planned visit. My wife verbally encourages that I maintain a relationship with my older daughter but always starts fights and gets very moody when I actually talk to her. I think that is why my wife stormed into the store alone and saying nothing and then reacted so angrily when she thought I abandoned our youngest. She saw it like I didn't value our kids but I did value my older daughter. And why she stopped the car and repeatedly interrogated me with "why did you leave him alone in the store". What she was really after was.. "Do you value our kids as much as your older daughter?".

There is that plus the fact my wife just isnt all there to begin with.


----------



## Mr. Nail

paranoia is a symptom of pot abuse


----------



## Affaircare

*Re: Missing ingredient*



maxthemost said:


> ... (I was) released with a no contact order which keeps me from entering my own home ...and from talking to my wife..


May I point out a legal issue here?

No were released from jail with essentially a temporary restraining order. This means you can not be in your home, be within X number of feet of your wife, speak to or with your wife, or communicate with your wife via any means (phone call, text, email, snail mail). 

And yet you write things like "she said..." or "she woke up hung over..." and you must have found out those things somehow. 

My guess is that your wife called the police out of spite, and you had used physical means to remove her from the car...yet you are responsible to go complete NO CONTACT with her, and conversely she is responsible to make sure the RO is enforced every time you break contact. If she is the one initiating contact, I would recommend two things:

a) Do not respond in any way, because any and every time you do, she could wig out, call the cops to enforce the RO, and it would become evidence in court that you are stalking and harassing her with intent to intimidate, and the RO would become *permanent*...and you'd be in an even bigger world of hurt!

b) Document the way in which SHE initiates contact (if she texted, take a photo of the text...if she emailed, save the email so you can see there's no previous email...if she called you, show the record from the cell bill that she is the one who called you...if she sends you a letter or note, keep it as evidence). What you want here is a piece of paper you can show to a judge to say "I kept my side of the RO, and she continued to break her side. Clearly I am not the threat she claimed or she would not have continued to contact me" and he will have EVIDENCE to discontinue the RO.


----------



## maxthemost

*Re: Missing ingredient*

I dont think I made any indication that the nco was broken. If you read carefully you will see that the hung over part was referring to the day of the incident. And we have mutual friends so I get information such as her saying..."I wish he would just disregard the NCO and return home"... or "I wouldnt have called the police if he had just came back to get me". My wife stood in court sobbing and asking the judge to remove the NCO saying that she is not afraid of me and never was and that she needs me in the house to care for the kids but it didnt work. Again, my wife wants to pretend nothing ever happened and go back to life as normal. The NCO has been adjusted to apply to texting each other for financial issues or for childcare issues so it wasnt removed but was modified.


----------



## Rob_1

So, what are you saying here? It is so ambiguous.

What are you planning to do?
Just punishing her for a while by not going back home? Or that's that, you're done with her craziness and you are planning on ending the relationship with her. What is it that you want?


----------



## Marc878

You put yourself in this mess. Sounds like you're just venting and want to stay and be a martyr.

good luck, you'll need it


----------



## Spicy

Hearing your side of the story, she is crazy.
Hearing her side of the story, you are crazy.

The truth is usually somewhere in between.


----------



## 269370

Spicy said:


> Hearing your side of the story, she is crazy.
> 
> Hearing her side of the story, you are crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is usually somewhere in between.




Where can one hear her side of the story? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spicy

inmyprime said:


> Where can one hear her side of the story?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, I thought my point was fairly obvious.

We can only hear that from her, and I can GUARANTEE her version is very different than his, and to hear her tell it, he is the crazy one.


----------



## personofinterest

Sorry dude. She was a *****, but you ARE, in fact, guilty. 

Grow up.

She needs to grow up too.


----------



## personofinterest

BigToe said:


> maxthemost said:
> 
> 
> 
> *yes, she is a nut case.* call it a personality disorder or borderline psychotic or manic depression or whatever psychologist term you want to assign to it. But she wont get help or even accept she has any disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you accepted your own disorders and that you need help?
> 
> Here's what I see, someone who is just as dramatic as his wife and needs help with anger management. Your posting is written in the form of a novel which I find really strange and only convinces me there are two sides of this story. You could have helped to defuse the situation by simply answering her and telling her whatever she wanted to hear. You exited your side of the vehicle, went to her side, opened the door and forcefully removed her and thereby tripling the danger of being in the road and one-or-both-of-you potentially getting hit by traffic. Then in dramatic fashion, abandoned your wife on the road leaving her to walk on foot on the very road that you claim was so dangerous to be stopped on. All in front of your kids. This is an experience they will be talking about for years even after you are gone. When they are sitting together at a holiday gathering they will invariably talk about the day daddy ripped mommy out of the car and drove away. Using your kids as justification for your actions is not cool and the courts will see through that as well.
> 
> Your wife doesn't want to talk about it, wants to forget it ever happened, because it was embarrassing. She was abandoned by her husband on the road, had to get picked up by police, her husband got arrested for domestic violence which was almost certainly posted to the public in a paper circulation somewhere and is certainly searchable online by anyone that knows your real name. AND, it's all going to be exposed to the public when you go to court. All for what...an argument over a kid in a shopping cart. You wonder why she doesn't want to talk about it and just forget it ever happened? I don't.
> 
> I think you both need professional help. This didn't just happen out of the blue, there's some history leading up to it. I think you both create a caustic relationship for each other and need to fix it.
Click to expand...

The best post, hands down.


----------



## 269370

Spicy said:


> Sorry, I thought my point was fairly obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> We can only hear that from her, and I can GUARANTEE her version is very different than his, and to hear her tell it, he is the crazy one.




Ah yes. Of course, I’m all for hearing both sides! I thought there actually IS a version from her somewhere that I might have missed. That’s always interesting to read, because it is often the complete opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spicy

Agreed. I love those rare instances that we get those on here, feels like I can actually give decent advice that way!


inmyprime said:


> Ah yes. Of course, I’m all for hearing both sides! I thought there actually IS a version from her somewhere that I might have missed. That’s always interesting to read, because it is often the complete opposite.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Spicy said:


> Agreed. I love those rare instances that we get those on here, feels like I can actually give decent advice that way!




Yes it’s certainly better. But then it’s about who has better writing skills...But at least you realise that the situation is more complex than it first appears (which it always is). 

Even better, is to get both of them into one room, and get them to talk to each other!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2ntnuf

Well, looks like you **** and stepped in it. 

She will have the kids full time and you will pay the highest child support possible. You'll be lucky if you are allowed to see your children without some official present, if at all. 

That's my uneducated, but life experienced guess. 

See a good attorney for proof and help. You badly need one.


----------



## Uptown

> I am afraid of her temper and threats and how this could destroy me if I supported her legally and brought her back to the US. [Your 5/14/12 post.]


Max, this is not the first time that your W threw a temper tantrum so bad that you demanded she get out of the car. The first time occurred six years ago, at which time you posted here about her mental health issues.

In that thread and this one, you are describing red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). The behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, controlling actions, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," inability to trust, and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD. 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting that she exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I'm suggesting that she may be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD. 

Of course, learning to spot BPD symptoms will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute a full-blown disorder.

Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- and may help you decide whether a professional opinion is warranted at this time. I therefore suggest you take a quick look at these BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar:



Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members (apparently, this isolation has already started with her treatment of your mother);
A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
Low self esteem;
Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
Complaining that all her previous partners were abusive and claiming, during the first few months of your relationship, that you are the only one who has treated her well;
Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly at the beginning of your friendship (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met a "soul mate;"
Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
Having no close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away) even though she may have many casual friends;
Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

If most of those behaviors ring bells and raise questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you -- and I would recommend you see a psychologist (for a visit or two all by yourself) to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your children are dealing with.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either _"has"_ or _"doesn't have."_ Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (usually at a low level if the person is healthy).

At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum).

Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.


----------



## Uptown

Duplicate.


----------



## personofinterest

I wondered when the one hit wonder would show up.

BOTH these spouses probably have BPD


----------



## Uptown

personofinterest said:


> I wondered when the one hit wonder would show up.


LOL. I would prefer you made that "3-hit Wonder." I often write about bipolar and IED too. But, yes, I don't venture far from BPD.


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> I wondered when the one hit wonder would show up.




Speaking of which, you forgot to recommend counselling to the respective parties  (sorry, i have no idea why I’m picking on you today).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Uptown

inmyprime said:


> You forgot to recommend counselling to the respective parties.


Prime, my view is that, if Max determines his W exhibits most BPD traits at a strong level, marriage counselling likely would be a waste of time until his W had had several years (at least) of individual counseling. Because young children are involved, I did suggest that Max "see a psychologist (for a visit or two all by yourself) to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your children are dealing with."


----------



## 482

Only you can answer your questions. One thing I can tell you from experience is that fighting like children sucks. It’s bad for everyone involved, you, her, the kids, the other people in the store and on the road, everyone. You guys need to learn (as do I) how to communicate better when things start to get out of control.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Not sure what's up with the dissing of @Uptown. 
He's a well informed valuable contributor that actually gives good, legit advice instead of just his opinion.
@maxthemost
After a DV charge and a restraining order that is keeping you out of your house and away from your kids, you would have to be a masochistic glutton for punishment to stay with your toxic, dangerous wife. Think of the example you are setting for your kids. They will think this is the way relationships are supposed to be and will seek that out when they are older.


----------



## Oceania

Rubix Cubed said:


> He's @Uptown *a well informed valuable contributor* that actually gives good, legit advice instead of just his opinion.


Agreed and that's just my opinion:smile2:


----------



## frusdil

IF what went down happened exactly as you say, no question you should end the marriage. There's no coming back from this.

Calling the police over this incident is such an extreme thing, I can't help but wonder if there is more to it.


----------



## 269370

Uptown said:


> Prime, my view is that, if Max determines his W exhibits most BPD traits at a strong level, marriage counselling likely would be a waste of time until his W had had several years (at least) of individual counseling. Because young children are involved, I did suggest that Max "see a psychologist (for a visit or two all by yourself) to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your children are dealing with."


I meant that POI forgot to recommend counselling to you and others (for giving certain advice), as opposed to the OP or his wife. It was a joke!

It's sometimes difficult to know where PMS ends and BPD starts. It's tough being a woman. Also, sometimes people loose their ****. We know nothing of their dynamic otherwise and whether he's as 'perfect' as he comes across.


----------



## BigToe

inmyprime said:


> Where can one hear her side of the story?


Look at his post #26, he describes what she said to friends and the court.

He really should not defy the No Contact Order because it's similar to contempt and can just complicate things further. It's a lesson to both of them. He didn't anticipate the ramifications of forcibly removing his wife from the vehicle. She didn't anticipate the ramifications of calling police.

I think from a legal perspective this is going to be resolved with probation. I don't see any jail time or monetary fine as adjudication, but obviously there is going to be hardship for both until the case is heard and resolved. The bigger issue at this point is what happens with their relationship after the court issue is resolved.


----------



## Uptown

inmyprime said:


> It was a joke!


Sorry, Prime. It's a good joke. I had a long day yesterday.



> It's sometimes difficult to know where PMS ends and BPD starts.


Good point. Actually, most strong BPD behavior you see in other people is not due to lifetime BPD but, rather, to temporary flareups of the normal BPD traits we all exhibit. The most common cause of these flareups is strong hormone changes (e.g., PMS, pregnancy, postpartum, puberty, perimenopause -- or, LOL, any other life event starting with the letter "p"). Another common cause of BPD flareups is drug abuse.

PMS thus is a real possibility as the cause if Max's W is exhibiting strong BPD traits. I didn't mention it to Max only because his two threads describe this same behavior as going on for the past six years -- and with no indication of it being limited to a few days a month or occurring in a monthly cycle.


----------



## personofinterest

inmyprime said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered when the one hit wonder would show up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, you forgot to recommend counselling to the respective parties  (sorry, i have no idea why I’m picking on you today).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Cause I'm so pickable....like a giant nose....


----------



## 269370

BigToe said:


> Look at his post #26, he describes what she said to friends and the court.



That’s not what I meant. Her side of the story would be giving her a chance to speak for herself.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

Uptown said:


> Sorry, Prime. It's a good joke. I had a long day yesterday.
> 
> Good point. Actually, most strong BPD behavior you see in other people is not due to lifetime BPD but, rather, to temporary flareups of the normal BPD traits we all exhibit. The most common cause of these flareups is strong hormone changes (e.g., PMS, pregnancy, postpartum, puberty, perimenopause -- or, LOL, any other life event starting with the letter "p"). Another common cause of BPD flareups is drug abuse.
> 
> PMS thus is a real possibility as the cause if Max's W is exhibiting strong BPD traits. I didn't mention it to Max only because his two threads describe this same behavior as going on for the past six years -- and with no indication of it being limited to a few days a month or occurring in a monthly cycle.




I think PMS is always a possibility. My wife sometimes acts like an insane person I never met before (I don’t say this to her obviously); i can imagine it’s very difficult to reconcile this with the ‘normal’ her, for men. (Though who is to say which one is the normal her). But a lot of damage can be inflicted in those periods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> Cause I'm so pickable....like a giant nose....



I imagine you probably have a stressful job and this takes a bit of the edge off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rubix Cubed

BigToe said:


> He really should not defy the No Contact Order because it's similar to contempt and can just complicate things further. It's a lesson to both of them. *He didn't anticipate the ramifications of forcibly removing his wife from the vehicle.* She didn't anticipate the ramifications of calling police.
> 
> I think from a legal perspective this is going to be resolved with probation. I don't see any jail time or monetary fine as adjudication, but obviously there is going to be hardship for both until the case is heard and resolved. The bigger issue at this point is what happens with their relationship after the court issue is resolved.


 I would love to hear what the judge's idea of a solution to this dangerous situation is? Just leave her in the car stopped in the road, endangering yourself, your kids and everyone driving near you? She should be charged.The irony of accusing him of abandoning their child when she left the kid beside him and walked 20' away, then stops on a road endangering all of them trying to force the answer she wanted out of the OP. She needs to go away ... period.


----------



## CatholicDad

Momma bears get crazy when they think their kids were put in danger. I know a smart, highly educated lady that won't take toddlers to the grocery store for fear of kidnapping, and she lives in an affluent area in the Midwest. Even my wife retells an incident of being followed by single, creepy man supposedly watching her and the kids. 

Is it rational, probably not. I think being a mom and woman though comes with its own irrational fears. I think you just confirmed that a man can pretty easily over power her and take the kids away....

I've found in life that you should avoid answering "crazy with crazy".


----------



## vincent3

With the hangover from the drinking and pot, as well as the attitude toward you that she displays when she's with her friends, your marital problems were plenty deep before this arrest. 

Were the kids at home when she was getting loaded with her friends?

I don't think it's so much a question of forgiving her, but of trusting her. A marriage can't be healthy without trust. You'd of course need to think about any mistakes you've made that might have contributed (within reason, of course), but the fact that you've made mistakes doesn't negate the ultimate question of whether you can trust her after this.

Have you seen a lawyer about the NCO and any potential DV charges?


----------



## personofinterest

> Were the kids at home when she was getting loaded with her friends?


This is a vital question. A mom who is stoned around her kids is not a good mom.


----------



## Mr. Nail

personofinterest said:


> This is a vital question. A mom who is stoned around her kids is not a good mom.


And a Dad who keeps his kids in the house when mom and friends are stoned, at home, . . . is not a good Dad.


----------



## Adelais

@maxthemost your problems started long before she called the police on you:

Why the heck was she having friends over and getting drunk and high when she has children? Even if you were home to care for them while she was impaired, doesn't she (or you for that matter) care about the poor example she is setting?

I don't blame you for physically removing her from the car. Had I been in your shoes, I would have been desperate to remove my family from danger ASAP and wouldn't have been thinking about the legality of physically removing the adult who is putting everyone in danger from the car, and driving away from them like a bat out of hell.

You need to deal in reality. Your wife is crazy. She puts your family's lives in danger. Her actions put you in jail. Rather than come home with her head held low because she knew she caused the entire issue, she had you put in jail.

You need to walk softly, follow all the rules, do as RR said, and get good lawyers on your side so you can see your children.

Think "Long Game" and make protecting yourself and your children your major goal.

And get counseling so you love yourself enough to protect yourself from crazy.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

CatholicDad said:


> Momma bears get crazy when they think their kids were put in danger. I know a smart, highly educated lady that won't take toddlers to the grocery store for fear of kidnapping, and she lives in an affluent area in the Midwest. Even my wife retells an incident of being followed by single, creepy man supposedly watching her and the kids.
> 
> Is it rational, probably not. I think being a mom and woman though comes with its own irrational fears. I think you just confirmed that a man can pretty easily over power her and take the kids away....
> 
> *I've found in life that you should avoid answering "crazy with crazy*".


Really??? Are you serious?
"Momma bear" was actively risking her children's (not to mention her and her husband's) lives by stopping in the roadway and acting an ass. She was PUTTING them in danger, not saving them from it.
OP trying to save his kids, himself, and his car isn't crazy. The situation she put him in was crazy and had 3 possible outcomes. 
1) She moves the car when asked. (not likely for "crazy")
2) He leaves her standing in the middle of the road so he can get the kids safe. He gets a DV charge for leaving her in the road
3) He puts her in the car and gets them all to safety and that's what happens.Gets arrested for DV.

The end result to all 3 are leave her so fast her head spins, and maintain as little contact as is necessary for your kids. Anyone who stops in traffic to try to force there side in an argument needs to go.
You can't fix crazy and she is a ****ed up party girl, ticking time bomb of crazy.


----------



## MaiChi

Why have children with someone you know to be crazy? Are you not afraid that your children would be crazy too? 

Why argue in front of the children? Here is how to avoid an argument. nobody can argue alone so if you keep silent till you get home, she would not keep shouting. Well most people would not. 

There are courses for people who have anger problems.


----------



## CatholicDad

I don't think they were in significant danger. Highway Patrol and tow truck drivers do the same all day, every day. It would have been easier to answer the question versus yanking her out.


----------



## Mr. Nail

CatholicDad said:


> I don't think they were in significant danger. Highway Patrol and tow truck drivers do the same all day, every day. It would have been easier to answer the question versus yanking her out.





maxthemost said:


> *She stopped the minivan in traffic-* it was on the drive home from the grocery store on an arterial with no shoulder in an industrial area. She stopped the vehicle with our 3 kids inside and started to interrogate me "tell me why you left him alone in the aisle of the store!"


No shoulder, no flashing lights, heavy truck traffic, kind of hard to find a stupider place to do this. More evidence that Reduced intellectual level is a symptom of marijuana use.


----------



## vincent3

CatholicDad said:


> I don't think they were in significant danger. Highway Patrol and tow truck drivers do the same all day, every day. It would have been easier to answer the question versus yanking her out.


Highway patrol and tow truck drivers are trained to be safe on the roadside. She stopped her car on the road illegally and was acting, just as you put it, crazy.

With the benefit of hindsight, was pulling her out the car and leaving her on the road the best way to handle it? I wasn't there, but I'm guessing a call to 911 would have been better. Or as he was getting out of the car, he could have told her to take the kids home and he'd walk (not as an admission of wrongdoing, but to keep the kids safe). Once she drove off, he should have called 911 and reported her for endangerment. If he believed the kids wouldn't be safe driving with her, maybe he could have turned on the hazard lights and called 911 while they all stayed in the car. But that lapse (if it was a lapse - we weren't there to experience it) doesn't mean it's all on him and off of her. She created a situation that would have gotten the better of most untrained people's wits.

If he knew about her getting drunk and stoned with her friends while it was happening, that is what we should be reading about. He should have put a stop to it before it got out of hand, kicked out the friends, and should not have been in normal mode the next day with the family strolling through the grocery store.


----------

