# Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak



## barbieDoll

So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.

I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.

Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.

==============================================

*1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*

There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
*
Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
*Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.

*2. Reciprocate.*

*Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada. 
*Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.

We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.

Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.

_I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_

*3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*

I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.

Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.

*4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*

Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!

*Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
*Women FAIL*: FINE.

=========================================

This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think. 

I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.

And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!

Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.

ENJOY!!


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## Goldmember357

agreed

everything you said i think everyone should know. However most people are failures and so will there marriages fail its a sad world really. So with that said you mention things that are obvious and i would really question the supposed "love" of ones partner if they were unwilling to listen or help around the house. If your partner is not doing the above and not having a desire to compliment you or please you than you have some serious issues. 

So sad to ready so many of these fail stories on here but its just further proof of how incapable most people are of proper decision making and inability to get past selfish and hedonistic point of view of the world leads to there own suffering and turmoil they bring this upon themselves often. I do give sympathy to those who are betrayed that sucks but they are responsible for the poor decision making of choosing a poorly fit partner. So sad it can be anyhow i do agree with all that you said good post.


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## GreenEyes

Everything you said pretty much hit on everything I would haha The only thing is that my H does do laundry more than I do, he does get on cleaning kicks *once in a while*, but a lot of times my day consists of taking an hour in the morning to drop kids off where they need to be, go to work, make the opposite trip back home to pick up the kids, dinner, homework, cleaning/dishes, baths, animals and if he hasn't done it, laundry....sometimes all of this is going on while he is laying back in the bed watching tv all night....talk about frustrating!!! haha but I choose to do it because I have to have my house in some kind of order or it drives me crazy!!!!

Before I end this though, I am going to give my H the credit he is due because he does help more than most around the house and with the kids.


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## The Gottman Institute

I agree with these thoughts. Especially with regards to the importance of truly listening. Thanks for the thoughts.


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## Stonewall

I agree with you but oddly enough the things you say about how women think and feel apply to me. 

and no I am not homosexual. I guess i'm just in touch with my feminine side.


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## SadSamIAm

I think men should try to listen better.

But I also think that women should realize that men are not great listeners. No use making us feel like losers our entire life for it.


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## Hopefull363

So true. My husband shuts right down if I start talking about feelings. I keep telling him I don't have a crystal ball. I want to know how he feels so I can do the good things more and the bad things less. I also wish he'd compliment me more and realize the contributions I bring to this family. That can be done by listening to what I need emotionally. I certainly tell him, but go back to the beginning where he doesn't listen if he doesn't want to hear it. Ugh


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## sammy3

Not long ago, I was watching a television show how the state of California wants to introduce having brain scans of couples done before the applying for a marriage license, (much like blood work is required.) The thought was, it would cut down the divorce rate, bc sometime no matter what , the brains just don't click. 

When scans were shown to the couples who were tested over different emotions, it was interesting to see how each brain reacted differently ...

~sammy


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## shy_guy

sammy3 said:


> Not long ago, I was watching a television show how the state of California wants to introduce having brain scans of couples done before the applying for a marriage license, (much like blood work is required.) The thought was, it would cut down the divorce rate, bc sometime no matter what , the brains just don't click.
> 
> When scans were shown to the couples who were tested over different emotions, it was interesting to see how each brain reacted differently ...
> 
> ~sammy


The state of California no longer requires a blood test for marriage licenses (according to my younger daughter who just got her marriage license this last week from CA). I would find this new requirement to be rather disturbing - not enough understanding yet of such things for any of this to be meaningful. That doesn't mean that some knuckleheaded politician won't try to require it, but I'd be very much opposed to such a thing.


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## barbieDoll

SadSamIAm said:


> I think men should try to listen better.
> 
> But I also think that women should realize that men are not great listeners. No use making us feel like losers our entire life for it.


I agree. I've fallen into this trap a few times and most of us are not oblivious to this fact. I know for myself, I'm trying to learn how my H can HEAR me better as we all know, not every man is made the same. It will take some time for me to really understand what approach he responds too. 



Hopefull363 said:


> So true. My husband shuts right down if I start talking about feelings. I keep telling him I don't have a crystal ball. I want to know how he feels so I can do the good things more and the bad things less. I also wish he'd compliment me more and realize the contributions I bring to this family. That can be done by listening to what I need emotionally. I certainly tell him, but go back to the beginning where he doesn't listen if he doesn't want to hear it. Ugh


Another frustrated person . It's sad because we women (& those men who share our frustration) find it so difficult to do this. If we tell our H or W often that "I don't like when you do this or don't do this or I wish you'd do this more often..." then the other one considers it to be nagging or complaining when all we're saying is *"pay attention to me, my needs are just as valuable as yours".* We get ignored enough...then we eventually stop. One day we say we're leaving or we blow up or something drastic and you say, "Well that came out of the blue, I had no clue!" If you listened, not just with your ears, with your eyes and your heart, you would've known that I've been broken for far too long.



sammy3 said:


> Not long ago, I was watching a television show how the state of California wants to introduce having brain scans of couples done before the applying for a marriage license, (much like blood work is required.) The thought was, it would cut down the divorce rate, bc sometime no matter what , the brains just don't click.
> 
> When scans were shown to the couples who were tested over different emotions, it was interesting to see how each brain reacted differently ...
> 
> ~sammy





shy_guy said:


> The state of California no longer requires a blood test for marriage licenses (according to my younger daughter who just got her marriage license this last week from CA). I would find this new requirement to be rather disturbing - not enough understanding yet of such things for any of this to be meaningful. That doesn't mean that some knuckleheaded politician won't try to require it, but I'd be very much opposed to such a thing.


Should we also start to have people apply for licenses in order to have kids because there are some REALLY horrible parents out there too...

That's quite disturbing.


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## barbieDoll

Goldmember357 said:


> agreed
> 
> everything you said i think everyone should know. However most people are failures and so will there marriages fail its a sad world really. So with that said you mention things that are obvious and i would really question the supposed "love" of ones partner if they were unwilling to listen or help around the house. If your partner is not doing the above and not having a desire to compliment you or please you than you have some serious issues.
> 
> So sad to ready so many of these fail stories on here but its just further proof of how incapable most people are of proper decision making and inability to get past selfish and hedonistic point of view of the world leads to there own suffering and turmoil they bring this upon themselves often. I do give sympathy to those who are betrayed that sucks but they are responsible for the poor decision making of choosing a poorly fit partner. So sad it can be anyhow i do agree with all that you said good post.


I meant this post to have positive connotations, not negative at all. What you're implying is that we're all doomed and should never get married. We all have our short comings... and I was hoping to help tell people like me, our side of the story so that those who are on the other side of my story can slowly begin to understand how people like me work.

Yes, it _should_ be obvious to people to just treat each other well, but it isn't. Even _common sense_ should no longer be called common because not everyone gets it. Human beings are intellectual creatures and there's still hope for us all. Yes it IS really sad to hear when marriages don't work but it isn't the constitution of marriage that isn't working, it's the two people that do not work well together. Marriage is wonderful; with the right person.

Yes my H has his short comings but he's also the greatest love of my life. He is my strength when I cannot be and my silliness when I need a smile. I too have my moments and I'm not perfect, but it's our differences that compliment each other.

Even with our issues, even in reading the failings and the struggles of others on here, there's still hope for love and I hope you can find it.


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## barbieDoll

GreenEyes said:


> Everything you said pretty much hit on everything I would haha The only thing is that my H does do laundry more than I do, he does get on cleaning kicks *once in a while*, but a lot of times my day consists of taking an hour in the morning to drop kids off where they need to be, go to work, make the opposite trip back home to pick up the kids, dinner, homework, cleaning/dishes, baths, animals and if he hasn't done it, laundry....sometimes all of this is going on while he is laying back in the bed watching tv all night....talk about frustrating!!! haha but I choose to do it because I have to have my house in some kind of order or it drives me crazy!!!!
> 
> Before I end this though, I am going to give my H the credit he is due because he does help more than most around the house and with the kids.


EXACTLY!! I totally hear you... I hate cleaning and I'd rather do nothing but I also can't stand to have a messy place. bahahaha! Oh the irony!!!

I have to give credit for great fathers... :smthumbup:


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## GreenEyes

barbieDoll said:


> EXACTLY!! I totally hear you... I hate cleaning and I'd rather do nothing but I also can't stand to have a messy place. bahahaha! Oh the irony!!!
> 
> I have to give credit for great fathers... :smthumbup:


Yes, I have to admit that my H is a wonderful dad, he's better than wonderful in that department, he goes above and beyond for our kids in every way he can, as in the time he spends with/on them.

Yes cleaning sucks, and I hate it, but I can't stand when it's dirty and I don't know how to explain it, but I just feel better when the house is clean.


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## lonesomegra

I actually think its funny that some woman would expect their man to do certain household chores. If the boot was on the other foot and my wife had to do the extremely physical job that I did she would not have lasted five minutes. 'Eh! which way do you turn a nut to open it?' 

There is also the whole tone thing that woman adopt. They have a drone that causes a natural reaction in a man's brain. Hence shutdown. There needs to be voice training for woman. i.e A mute button!!

Most men are very kind - if we really talked about our feelings it would hurt you fairer folk so much that the droning would never end!

Oh and whats the difference between an intelligent woman and a dinosaur?.....................................
........................................................

I don't know I've never met either one!!!:rofl:



All in jest!!!!


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

lonesomegra said:


> Oh and whats the difference between an intelligent woman and a dinosaur?.....................................
> ........................................................
> 
> I don't know I've never met either one!!!:rofl:


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## Runs like Dog

I try to listen and hear and pay attention. But she will never ever ever ever ever ever stop or back down. Never. She just winds up and and up and up until it all goes to sh^t. Being attentive is useful when you're attached to someone who's not an anger junkie or pathologically unhappy and vetting all the time. All she wants to see me be an audience to that.


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## GreenEyes

What do men and sperm have in common?
They both have a one-in-a-million chance of becoming a human being


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## Runs like Dog

It's funny. I went the gym a few days ago and spent an hour with 4 women on the treadmills behind me. Even through my ear buds I heard the penetrating screeching of 4 simultaneous unrelated 'conversations'. This is the key difference between men and women. Women don't actually have to have anyone responding to them or listening to them to make it a 'conversation' as long as the other person is simply chattering away at the same time. I know of not any man ever who communicates like that. You call it 'empowered multitasking' or some such bullsh^t but it's just listening to you talk to yourself about yourself.


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## GreenEyes

Runs like Dog said:


> It's funny. I went the gym a few days ago and spent an hour with 4 women on the treadmills behind me. Even through my ear buds I heard the penetrating screeching of 4 simultaneous unrelated 'conversations'. This is the key difference between men and women. Women don't actually have to have anyone responding to them or listening to them to make it a 'conversation' as long as the other person is simply chattering away at the same time. I know of not any man ever who communicates like that. You call it 'empowered multitasking' or some such bullsh^t but it's just listening to you talk to yourself about yourself.


Where's the thumbs-down button?!!???


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## shy_guy

I consider myself to be an improving listener. I recognized I was not a good listener and thought about why. Maybe some of what I recognized about myself, and some of the things I've been able to do to help me as a listener are applicable to others.

I described the busy-ness of my mind in the "Don't give us hints" thread on the second or third page. I was told by one of the bright ladies on the board that the functioning of my mind is not uniquely male. Whether it is, or isn't, it was still what got in the way of me really listening to my wife. However; I noticed I listened well at work when we got into involved problems ... so where's the connection?

My wife and I spend a lot of time in different worlds. That doesn't stop when we get in each other's presence. I need to make an effort to get into her world, and she needs to recognize this about me and help me get into her world, and get into mine. If I'm just sitting, my mind is so busy that I don't process what she's telling me. So:

My wife is a very good hiker as am I. When we hike together, I noticed I listen very well - it's something we're doing together. My emotions are in neutral, and I don't get frustrated at interruptions because we are working on this together. I translated that into daily walks. She walks during the day with her friends, but I asked her to set aside time for the two of us to walk daily - it translated. I was able to listen as we were working together, and I didn't have to fight the busy-ness of my mind to be able to listen.

I made an effort to get more involved in the housework. My wife is our household manager, so I have to ask her for tasks I can do. On the tasks that we have to do together, I find again, the busy-ness of my mind subsides, and I am much more able to listen and talk with her. An example of this was that today, we re-arranged our theater room. It took all afternoon. We worked shoulder to shoulder on it, and had great conversation as we did this. This is not different from two men working together when we can talk easily.

My wife is not going to be able to listen to me if I try to get into technical details of my job - no problem since our areas of expertise are different. She listens very well about relationships on the job, though, and she has some very good advice. I don't want to complain about my manager all the time, for example, but if I'm a bit strained with him, I find she can listen and interact very well with me. I don't want her to solve my problem, but I find she has good input. This eases the busy-ness of my mind when I can share with her on this level, and with reduced busy-ness, I find I can listen better when it's my turn to listen.

If there are things I need to do that she can help with, I'll ask her to help. So, for example, when I needed to clean the branches out of the back yard after our last ice storm, I asked her to help. I promised her I'd help her with the kitchen and with folding the laundry when I was finished. This allowed us to work together on all three tasks instead of working separately on them as would seem more natural. She didn't have to do much heavy work on the yard, but being shoulder to shoulder with her and working once again broke through the busy-ness of my mind and I was able to listen and interact much more naturally. It extended, too, especially to the folding of the laundry as again we were shoulder to shoulder working, and interaction was very natural. Of course, it's good to turn the TV off when we're doing tasks like folding laundry as that only distracts both of us. Later, when we're through with the important interaction, then we can cuddle together and watch TV (sort of ... my attention span is too short to sit through many TV shows, so this becomes a time when I try to do something nice for her - usually the time I do something like paint her toenails or massage her feet. I enjoy doing these probably even more than she enjoys having them done ... to each his own  ).

So my suggestion is: Ladies, watch your husband and see who he can interact with and what he's doing when he can interact easily. Can you get into those types of activities with him? If so, does he listen and interact better during those activities? Also, invite him to help you (I know, I know ... ). Maybe you can share all tasks instead of splitting up and doing different tasks separately.

Guys, maybe what works for me is also useful for you. I'll let you think it through and decide.

I know it sounds like I'm blowing sunshine again. It is working for me, and I am improving - I won't call myself good just yet, but I am improving. I just thought I'd post in my story in case it is helpful to someone else.


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## sisters359

shy_guy said:


> I consider myself to be an improving listener. I recognized I was not a good listener and thought about why. Maybe some of what I recognized about myself, and some of the things I've been able to do to help me as a listener are applicable to others.
> 
> I described the busy-ness of my mind in the "Don't give us hints" thread on the second or third page. I was told by one of the bright ladies on the board that the functioning of my mind is not uniquely male. Whether it is, or isn't, it was still what got in the way of me really listening to my wife. However; I noticed I listened well at work when we got into involved problems ... so where's the connection?
> 
> My wife and I spend a lot of time in different worlds. That doesn't stop when we get in each other's presence. I need to make an effort to get into her world, and she needs to recognize this about me and help me get into her world, and get into mine. If I'm just sitting, my mind is so busy that I don't process what she's telling me. So:
> 
> My wife is a very good hiker as am I. When we hike together, I noticed I listen very well - it's something we're doing together. My emotions are in neutral, and I don't get frustrated at interruptions because we are working on this together. I translated that into daily walks. She walks during the day with her friends, but I set aside time to walk with her - it translated. I was able to listen as we were working together, and I didn't have to fight the busy-ness of my mind to be able to listen.
> 
> I made an effort to get more involved in the housework. My wife is our household manager, so I have to ask her for tasks I can do. On the tasks that we have to do together, I find again, the busy-ness of my mind subsides, and I am much more able to listen and talk with her. An example of this was that today, we re-arranged our theater room. It took all afternoon. We worked shoulder to shoulder on it, and had great conversation as we did this. This is not different from two men working together when we can talk easily.
> 
> My wife is not going to be able to listen to me if I try to get into technical details of my job - no problem since our areas of expertise are different. She listens very well about relationships on the job, though, and she has some very good advice. I don't want to complain about my manager all the time, for example, but if I'm a bit strained with him, I find she can listen and interact very well with me. I don't want her to solve my problem, but I find she has good input. This eases the busy-ness of my mind when I can share with her on this level, and with reduced busy-ness, I find I can listen better when it's my turn to listen.
> 
> If there are things I need to do that she can help with, I'll ask her to help. So, for example, when I needed to clean the branches out of the back yard after our last ice storm, I asked her to help. I promised her I'd help her with the kitchen and with folding the laundry when I was finished. This allowed us to work together on all three tasks instead of working separately on them as would seem more natural. She didn't have to do much heavy work on the yard, but being shoulder to shoulder with her and working once again broke through the busy-ness of my mind and I was able to listen and interact much more naturally. It extended, too, especially to the folding of the laundry as again we were shoulder to shoulder working, and interaction was very natural. Of course, it's good to turn the TV off when we're doing tasks like folding laundry as that only distracts both of us. Later, when we're through with the important interaction, then we can cuddle together and watch TV (sort of ... my attention span is too short to sit through many TV shows, so this becomes a time when I try to do something nice for her - usually the time I do something like paint her toenails or massage her feet. I enjoy doing these probably even more than she enjoys having them done ... to each his own  ).
> 
> So my suggestion is: Ladies, watch your husband and see who he can interact with and what he's doing when he can interact easily. Can you get into those types of activities with him? If so, does he listen and interact better during those activities? Also, invite him to help you (I know, I know ... ). Maybe you can share all tasks instead of splitting up and doing different tasks separately.
> 
> Guys, maybe what works for me is also useful for you. I'll let you think it through and decide.
> 
> I know it sounds like I'm blowing sunshine again. It is working for me, and I am improving - I won't call myself good just yet, but I am improving. I just thought I'd post in my story in case it is helpful to someone else.


Great post! I have always encouraged couples to share in the work load--unite and conquer, not divide and conquer. 2 people doing one task get it done in 1/2 the time, and it isn't so f*cking BORING, either. So while people may argue that "we get more done" if you do x while she does y, that isn't even true. What usually happens (and research shows this) is that men finish sooner on household tasks b/c they are willing to settle for a lower standard (again, this is a generalization; some men are definitely more orderly and careful about housework than their wives, of course). The other "rule" needs to be that the person whose primary domain the work is in--usually, wives/household, husbands/yard--gets to determine when it is done to satisfactory standards (because the one with expertise understands the long term impact of lowering the standards--and lots of times, this just makes more work down the road, esp. when it comes to house work). 

But working together is a great way to reduce resentment. Bring the kids in on it, too; I do my kids' chores with them when they ask, and we have great conversations, as you point out. 

Obviously there are certain things that might not prove conducive to sharing the load--maybe doing the taxes? I don't know (I always did them). Anything that is mentally taxing (pun intended) might be a "one-person" task, at least at certain stages.

But your observation about how the "routine busy-ness" is a great time to share together, both the work and conversation, is so clearly stated, that I hope people "see" it and give shared housework/exercise/etc. a chance!


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## Bottled Up

I recently read the book called "The secrets of happily married men" and it has a really good in-depth explanation about differences of men and women in the communication area. It has a lot to do with biological differences in our brains. Women's brains are incredibly more capable of interpreting emotion in facial expressions than men are... In fact women can usually detect moods in men before men are even aware they are showing signs of it. Men's brains on the other hand are extremely more efficient at problem-solving in a logical manner. This lends credence as to why women often get frustrated with men when the guy wants to fix her problems, because the woman may just want to be connecting to an emotional aspect of a situation whereas the guy instinctively is programmed to want to solve the issue that is causing her stress.

This to me is one of the most crucial aspects of beginning to understand miscommunication in one's relationship... Because when a man and woman can both start to understand that they are programmed by nature as different thinkers, they can both appreciate their differences and start learning how to engage each other properly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

^^^^ yes!^^^^^
I think communication problems for women are equivalent to the sex problems for men. There are very few threads on the former many on the latter. . 

It is good to see that someone post about communication problems. I think it is a widespread problem and affects marriages as adversely as sex problems. The effect shows up in the willingness on the part of women to have intimacy with a man who seems to refuse to meet her needs for communication. 

Can make a woman feel as if she is being used for sex if the problem is severe enough. 

This is a minor problem in my marriage. It has become kind of a joke. We laugh about the way he misinterprets what I say and what i say makes it difficult for him to interpret. We both changed - i have had to be more direct in my communications and he has had to listen more carefully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

I agree with Runs, both are responsible for adjusting communication styles to suit the natural differences between men and women. 

You can't fault men for the way they process info and you can't fault women for the way they express information. We have to compromise to remedy the problem. If one or both refuse to understand and comprimise then problems have to be anticipated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

lonesomegra said:


> I actually think its funny that some woman would expect their man to do certain household chores. If the boot was on the other foot and my wife had to do the extremely physical job that I did she would not have lasted five minutes. 'Eh! which way do you turn a nut to open it?'
> 
> There is also the whole tone thing that woman adopt. They have a drone that causes a natural reaction in a man's brain. Hence shutdown. There needs to be voice training for woman. i.e A mute button!!
> 
> Most men are very kind - if we really talked about our feelings it would hurt you fairer folk so much that the droning would never end!
> 
> Oh and whats the difference between an intelligent woman and a dinosaur?.....................................
> ........................................................
> 
> I don't know I've never met either one!!!:rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> All in jest!!!!


Cheeky devil :0 }
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shy_guy

Question back to the ladies: If we've made our best effort at listening, do you mind if we have time that we just want/need to tune out? For example, if you want to watch TV for a while, and I want to listen to music and play sudoku, would you be understanding if I put on my headphones and played while you watched TV and not be upset that I don't hear anything? Would you be able to let me tune out like that for a while?

*EDIT:* Background: This happens with me is why I ask. I can stop it easily enough, but I don't. It's a minor irritation to me because part of the entertainment value of the game is in seeing how fast I can solve the puzzles, and the entertainment value of the music is interrupted when I take the headphones off in response to looking over and seeing the "I just said something to you" look on her face. Usually, she wants to call my attention to something in one of her home shows on TV. Honestly, I'm not that interested in the show or I would be watching it with her. Reiterating that this is after I've given her the princess treatment until she's ready for a break, I'm asking if what I'm doing would be an irritation to you ladies who say your husband is not listening to you.


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## GreenEyes

shy_guy said:


> Question back to the ladies: If we've made our best effort at listening, do you mind if we have time that we just want/need to tune out? For example, if you want to watch TV for a while, and I want to listen to music and play sudoku, would you be understanding if I put on my headphones and played while you watched TV and not be upset that I don't hear anything? Would you be able to let me tune out like that for a while?
> 
> *EDIT:* Background: This happens with me is why I ask. I can stop it easily enough, but I don't. It's a minor irritation to me because part of the entertainment value of the game is in seeing how fast I can solve the puzzles, and the entertainment value of the music is interrupted when I take the headphones off in response to looking over and seeing the "I just said something to you" look on her face. Usually, she wants to call my attention to something in one of her home shows on TV. Honestly, I'm not that interested in the show or I would be watching it with her. Reiterating that this is after I've given her the princess treatment until she's ready for a break, I'm asking if what I'm doing would be an irritation to you ladies who say your husband is not listening to you.


I don't see anything wrong with that....I let my H tune out whenever he wants and if I have something to say or ask, unless it's urgent, I wait until I can see that he's done....That's just me though, sometimes I tune out to read or something like that so I get it....


----------



## Hopefull363

It's fine to tune out sometimes, just not all the time.


----------



## okeydokie

i simply cannot continue to listen to someone who has made their point, then remade their point, then starts to repeat the process from the beginning over and over, man or woman. in fact, in the business world i will flatly tell someone that they have already made that point and there is no need to repeat it. i will listen to it from my wife to a point then i will politely say, "yes dear, we have covered that", then she will do it again


----------



## Runs like Dog

okeydokie said:


> i simply cannot continue to listen to someone who has made their point, then remade their point, then starts to repeat the process from the beginning over and over, man or woman. in fact, in the business world i will flatly tell someone that they have already made that point and there is no need to repeat it.



That's a negotiation tactic. Wear them down until you get everything you want. A close cousin of "Let me ask the same question over and over and over regardless of the answer I hear" tactic.


----------



## ocotillo

barbieDoll said:


> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*".
> 
> 
> This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.


Not trying to be intentionally pedantic here, because I think you would agree.

Communication is inherently the responsibility of the communicator. It's the one consistent lesson that's pounded into our heads as managers, as writers, as speakers or any other avenue where information is conveyed via language. 

If we have to fall back onto tired canards like "I would hope you would have been smart enough to figure out...." (-->Insert detail we neglected to communicate<--) then we've failed. 

Here's a simple experiment: Try going an entire day without using a single demonstrative pronoun when communicating with your spouse. It's surprisingly tough!


----------



## Catherine602

ocotillo said:


> Here's a simple experiment: Try going an entire day without using a single demonstrative pronoun when communicating with your spouse. It's surprisingly tough!


What's a demonstrative pronoun and why is it significant that it is difficult to communicate without them? :scratchhead:


----------



## shy_guy

Catherine602 said:


> What's a demonstrative pronoun and why is it significant that it is difficult to communicate without them? :scratchhead:


Demonstrative Pronouns - Glossary Definition - UsingEnglish.com

The answer to the second is probably pretty clear after seeing the definition. It would be a challenge ... Sometimes, though, they may help clarify since we can get lost in too much verbage.


----------



## ocotillo

Catherine602 said:


> What's a demonstrative pronoun and why is it significant that it is difficult to communicate without them? :scratchhead:


Demonstratives are words in speech that require an external reference for the listener to grasp. The technical term is _deictic _words. 

In English, 'this' and 'these' are proximal demonstrative pronouns and, 'that' and 'those' are distal demonstrative pronouns.

Demonstratives streamline our speech and make it more pleasant, but the more we use, the more the listener will need to understand not only what we're saying, but what we're experiencing and thinking as well.

The classic, corny (And slightly sexist) example from television sitcoms involving married couples is when the wife hears a noise and the husband does not. The dialogue starts off like this:

Her: "What's _that_ noise?"

Him: "I don't hear anything."

Her: "_There _it is again. Don't you hear _that_?"​
Obviously we wouldn't want to eliminate them from our speech entirely, but trying to go a day, or even a single conversation without using them can sometimes give us a feel for how much we're simply assuming the other person knows.


----------



## shy_guy

It can go a little farther than just demonstrative pronouns to a lot of non-specific language we use. I know in our house, I often ask where something is, and I'm told what would translate to English as "It's right over there," even when we're not in the same room. Another example: there are the times when I ask where something is and I'm told "It's in the cabinets." I look and there are about 20 cabinet doors in the room where I'm standing, so I ask for clarification and it becomes "In the top." It takes several questions before we finally get to "Second door from the left on the top." It wouldn't really need to be quite that specific, but it needs to be specific enough that I think I have a reasonable starting place.


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## Hopefull363

Isn't the top enough? That just took away 10 of the 20 cabinet doors. Now you just have to look through 10. Just kidding! LOL


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## barbieDoll

I like that there's discussion about this on both ends... all totally valid and all good!

I agree; there comes a time when we all need our quiet time. Fair enough! As much as I love my H, I do enjoy reading my book in bed while he enjoys his time with his xbox.

I also agree that there are some tasks that are just physically better suited for men and/or women.

Yup, better descriptors are also a valid thing to want when describing something. haha. But what I find hilarious about myself is that I can go on and on in detail as to what something looked like but when I have to tell H to get something or go somewhere or do something... I have to be brief. haha. But I acknowledge my shortfall and am working on it.

All this debate is great... keep at it!!


----------



## tamuser

two things come to mind:

1) my wife loves to talk *at length* about her job/school/whatever - often, there's nothing for me to do but say "mmm-hmmm" and nod, or the occasional "you did fine" or "don't worry about that". I'm happy to do this, but after a really long time, it gets old and it feels like she's being really self centered. Problem is, I *don't* like to talk about my work - I'd rather leave it at the office, and so I can't do a clean reciprocation (or even get a word in edgewise, to tell the truth). I understand that she has a need for this "conversation", so I do my best to fill it. It can sure seem excessive, though, and I haven't found a great way to shut it off when I've had enough without causing problems.

2) She doesn't really want to hear about my feelings. She does if they're good and they re-enforce the stability she likes to feel, but if I feel depressed or other negative emotions, it appears to freak her out and make her very anxious. She ends those conversations as soon as she can. It may be related to the fact that I'm the primary breadwinner and if I were to spiral out of control and lose my job or something, our lives would take a big hit.


----------



## Introubledeep

tamuser said:


> two things come to mind:
> 
> 2) She doesn't really want to hear about my feelings. She does if they're good and they re-enforce the stability she likes to feel, but if I feel depressed or other negative emotions, it appears to freak her out and make her very anxious. She ends those conversations as soon as she can. It may be related to the fact that I'm the primary breadwinner and if I were to spiral out of control and lose my job or something, our lives would take a big hit.


WHOOOOAAA!!! The lights just went on. Ditto for me too. Ditto, Ditto, Ditto. Very early in our marraige I tried to talk about "my feelings" about struggling to find a good job and provide enough. I felt bad and I shared my feelings. Well, my wife reacted like she had been waiting all her life for this opportunity to ATTACK. She absolutely SAVAGED me. Demeaned me, ridiculed me, compared me to the worst person that she could think of. She did her utmost to make sure that I would never ever express thoughts like this ever again. Cut me to the core and I cried, no wept. No apology ever came, no attempt to understand me. To be honest, I never really got over this and I was more careful about expressing any fears, doubts, anxiety. After a couple more similar episides of me expressing my fears, anger, anxiety, and getting SAVAGED, I largely shutdown. In other episodes I tried to talk to her, but it was apparently an unwritten law I was not allowed to say these things, and certainly would never get empathy and support. When I tried to persist in talking and explaining, I was labelled a whinger and a complainer. Apparently it was not OK for a MAN to feel these things. I shut down or alternatively communicated in a destructive manner, in hindsite often passive-aggressive behaviour which sure didn't help things. The ony way I could show her that I was sad, angry, upset, insecure was to communicate my message in an aggressive way...or alternatively not at all. It was not a deliberate strategy on my part, just a very unhealthy way of trying to cope. 

Just like you, wife was quite happy to talk about happy things, but bad things were 100% off the list of things to talk about...unless I wanted another round of emotional abuse that would scar me.


----------



## allthegoodnamesaregone

barbieDoll said:


> So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.
> 
> I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.
> 
> Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*
> 
> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.
> 
> _I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_
> 
> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.
> 
> Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.
> 
> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.
> 
> =========================================
> 
> This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.
> 
> I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.
> 
> And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!
> 
> Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.
> 
> ENJOY!!


-In regards to requests like deodorant to men, Make a list and write it down. We do not know that there are 15 different fragrances of the one you use. ;~)

-In regards to compliments, accept them and quit blowing them off as " He has to say that he's my husband"

- In regards to laundry and chores, This is stuff you should talk about when you are first married. Don't fester about it for years, set guidelines about who does what and when.
Don't yell at us for putting one frilly bit in the dryer after we've been doing several loads of a laundry perfectly, we'll never offer to do it again....

-In regards to feelings, 9 times out of ten it's us figuring out what's on your mind, because you keep saying everything is "fine" ;~)


----------



## Woodchuck

I told my wife, "while you are out, pick up some pistol ammo for me"....Did I have to say it was for my .44 special, and that I wanted the 200 grain Winchester silvertips?

Did she not know that I bought a new speed loader for my Rosi .44, and needed to fill it, and that Winchester silvertips is what I keep in my night stand gun...Sheeesh!

I mean she sleeps in the same bedroom, and knows the .44 is what I keep in the night stand.......

In my shower I have a bottle of head and shoulders daily use, and a bottle of generic body wash..

My wife has 15 bottles of shampoo, wash, yogurt conditioner, color shampoo, textured body scrub, oatmeal wash, tinted hair shampoo, bath oil, yadda yadda yadda..........

If she said get shampoo, I wouldn't have a clue, and that is without getting into coupons, bottle size, two for one sales, or rebate deals.....

I would not expect my wife to get my ammo, fishing lures, spark plugs, motor oil, lawn mower blades etc...

I have a whole lifetime of male culture and knowledge, that I don't expect her to understand.....and vice versa

On the other hand, when I get sent to the drug store for yeast infection cream, please be a little understanding if you get the 7 day cure and wanted the 3 day....You have me at a disadvantage...

In either case, a good faith effort should be accepted as good enough.....

As far as housework, I mow the yard, keep rhe cars maintained, buy most of the groceries, look out after my 95 year old dad and am a gourmet cook.

However, I find that anything I do around the house is instantly forgotten. 

Yesterday, I got up and fixed breakfast for my dad and myself, cleared off the table, and got him settled in to watch TV (he is 95). 

My wife came in after I had eaten, and had a cup of tea and a bowl of cold cerial. I never know when she will get up, or what she will want, so I don't fix her breakfast often.

I made dad a sandwich and chips for lunch made a great lunch of venison steaks for the wife and I (dad can't chew steak), went to a medical appointment, picked up groceries on the way home, cooked fabulous fried chicken,and milk gravy...The wife made microwave rice and heated up some green beans..

She later commented on her aching feet, and that I had spent the day PLAYING ONLINE.........

Once a task is done, it is instantly forgotten.....

I frequently give her compliments on her looks and clothing...After 47 years of marriage she is still hot.....

I give hour long full body massages, even bought a massage table.....

She always says I am just trying to work up to sex......
(sometimes I am, I am old, not dead)...

Our biggest arguments are about how much work I do around the house...She currently wants me to rip out the ceramic tile (that she picked out), in the back bathroom put down new tile and a new (to replace a perfectly good) toilet...

We hade a huge blowup abuut 4 months ago when she wanted me to put in a flower bed in the back yard (30 ft x 4 ft.)......

I told her I was not feeling too well, and took a lot of breaks...
She chewed me out frequently, said a MAN shouldnt need so many breaks (I am 65)....

The temp was mid to upper 90's , and the gound was so hard from the drought It was almost impossible to till, I NEEDED A POST HOLE DIGGER TO MAKE THE HOLES FOR THE SHRUBS. Spread 20 bags of top soil and 12 of mulch. 

We later found out I was a little tired because I had a severe urinary tract infection,(28 days of outpatient I.V. antibiotics) undiagnosed diabetis (blood glucose 365), and the post hole digging knocked loose a kidney stone which showed up 4 days later after I had driven her 300 miles to visit her sister. Spent the whole night in the inlaws guest bedroom trying to pass the stone.

Forgive me for being weak and unmanly.....

In my view, women fight by nagging and *****ing, a man is conditioned to defend himself physically, but can't....

Perhaps that is why we tune you out.........


----------



## hookares

Had I been expert in reading body language and her "mind", my ex wife and I wouldn't have been together for more than six months of the twenty years she was burying me.


----------



## WyshIknew

barbieDoll said:


> So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.
> 
> I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.
> 
> Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*
> 
> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.
> 
> _I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_
> 
> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.
> 
> Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.
> 
> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.
> 
> =========================================
> 
> This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.
> 
> I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.
> 
> And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!
> 
> Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.
> 
> ENJOY!!


"Hmmmm sorry babe, did you say something? Sorry I was watching tv"

"Communication? Oh yes we must do more of that." "wanna watch the simpsons?"


----------



## WyshIknew

Hopefull363 said:


> So true. My husband shuts right down if I start talking about feelings. I keep telling him I don't have a crystal ball. I want to know how he feels so I can do the good things more and the bad things less. I also wish he'd compliment me more and realize the contributions I bring to this family. That can be done by listening to what I need emotionally. I certainly tell him, but go back to the beginning where he doesn't listen if he doesn't want to hear it. Ugh


On a more serious note to my previous post, I am a bit of a stewer and a bottler upper.
Mrs Wysh has got very good at spotting when something is worrying/bugging me and will call me out on it. there is no hiding place.
She says that one of the most benficial changes that I have made within our marriage is that I listen and talk more.

Incidentally, I don't know if it is just me but I find one of the best places to talk is in bed. I find myself very much more open there. We will often snuggle up and chat about the day, week, whatever is bugging me etc.


----------



## 2ntnuf

For me, and me only, listening means doing what I tell you, when I tell you to do it. This is a no no.

Hearing, for me and me only, means hearing the words you are speaking, then asking questions to clarify your feelings or desires about an issue you have brought up in conversation. Then making sure, by saying what you just explained to me in my own words, you get that I understand what you are saying. No guessing involved. 

As far as deodorant is concerned, why not just write down what you want? If there is something specific, what's the big deal? Just write it down and I'll be more than happy to get it for you. Problem solved, no guessing and no chance of getting the wrong thing. If you are that afraid that he will get the wrong thing and you don't want to make sure, get it yourself. It's the alpha way.

You know, I can remember asking my wife to get me deodorant when she was at the store. She asked what kind I wanted and I told her. She asked what scent and I told her whatever she liked. If I want to smell nicely for her, why wouldn't I want her to pick the scent?

I did the same for her as well. Although, when I asked if she wanted me to pick the scent, she said no. I guess she didn't like what I chose. No problem, get your own.

I bet this gets the conversation started. Go for it. I'll check back later.


----------



## Bobby5000

Here are some suggestions about dealing with common problems. People may have others, but I think these are reasonable. 

1. Sloppy guy You find clothes on the floor, dishes strewn around. Pick your battles, ladies, and this is one you need to fight. Lay into your husband to clean up early in the marriage, and create good habits. . 

2. Inlaws Don't create big fights and don't cave in. Jane's husband has a company dinner, and mom just mentioned that Uncle Herb has a 60th birthday the same night. Of course, you can't miss Uncle Herb's party, everyone will be there. I talked to my friend Rose, and she couldn't believe you would be so callous and uncaring of my feelings, the mother explains. 

Don't take the bait and make the issue a big fight. Take a clear position, remain calm, don't apologize or antangonize. 

3. Sex Women's drive will decrease with the second child. Hormonally there are changes, friends as a reference point become women with children she no longer sees the need to get or keep the guy, weight-gain may make her feel self-conscious and there are tremendous time pressures with caring for two children, maintaining a house, and working. 

Nonetheless the successful couple negotiates the changes through compromise, obviously appreciatign the pleasures of having children. The husband learns to be happy with perhaps one time during the week, and perhaps once on the weekend, the wife understands that not only physically but psychologically the husband does not want to experience constant rejection. 

4. House If she's happy, everyone will be happy, if she's not, no one will. Stretch finances to a reasonable extent, and look for a house the wife likes. 

5. Power Successful relationship relationshp generally reflect split power, consensus decisions, and mutual respect. With finances, each should have some role and some control over money. Each should not have to plead for 30 dollars. 

6. Challenges and context. Both people put the marriage first. One cannot compare the marriages with a storybook one; instead, if comparisons are made, look at the divorced couple with savings going to lawyers, constant arguments over things, and two sets of household costs. 

7. Fidelity Women may yell and scream about many things, but most are pretty resiliant tolerating many things except infidelity. It's a game-breaker and even if you're forgiven, there will be 10-15,000 occasions in the next years where it will be mentioned or thought of, going out for a drink with a buddy, the wife has the I don't trust you look.


----------



## lilith23

The deodorant thing - usually if my husband is not sure of which brand of a certain product I wanted, he might assume that is the one he sees, but in either ways, he'd ask me if he's not 100% sure. But usually I try to be as explicit as I can anyways, since whether you're talking to a man or a woman, you can't just assume that the other person would know the details if I didn't mention them anyways.

The house chores - if both partners works then it's just normal to split house chores, right? If you want a woman to do all the work at home, then you might consider doubling your salary... And please don't ask why men have to do the heavy stuffs, since we don't ask why men doesn't have to carry a baby for 9 months and then breast feed them for months too...
I agree that the house chores and other responsibilities should be talked about before even living together. Being together it's about being equal partners sharing the responsibilities together. Maybe one is better at doing some things while another is better at other things. Yet as long as there's some balance, I don't see how it can be unfair.

About talking about feelings - I'm better at expressing my own feelings than my husband. I'm also the one who's more bossy and assertive, while he's more passive. For that, I do try to encourage him to express himself. If someone is not good at expressing himself, you have to be a bit more patient and give space while make things comfortable enough for him. When it comes to that, it's a bit hard for me, but I try to not be pushy or too assertive. On the other hand, he has to learn how to give me space to cool down whenever we argue, since I can get very heated up and not able to continue with the fight.
It's not simply about men wanting to solve things or women only focusing on the emotions, it's about the capacity to perceive the difference in our communication styles and find the best way to reach an understanding. This is part of solving the problems too. If you are saying the wrong things while trying to calm someone down, this is not a problem of you being focused on solving the problem, but rather you being focused on reaching the solution state as soon as possible while not figuring out how things works in order to solve the problems.


----------



## elisha_parker

yes, all men's should agree with these points.

Nice post, It should be spread through out the forums


----------



## Caribbean Man

barbieDoll said:


> So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.
> 
> I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.
> 
> Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*
> 
> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.
> 
> _I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_
> 
> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.
> 
> Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.
> 
> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.
> 
> =========================================
> 
> This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.
> 
> I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.
> 
> And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!
> 
> Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.
> 
> ENJOY!!


:iagree:

I read it thoroughly and I must say I couldn't agree more!
Especially with #1. 
Generally speaking, men don't listen. But the converse of that is that women are often times incoherent.......

Great Post!


----------



## NEM

Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.

But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?

About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable. 

I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.

All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

barbieDoll said:


> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> *


*

You have the message, it's your responsibility to communicate it.

The person with the best communication skills must adapt to the person with less communication skills - it would be unreasoned to expect the poor communicator to suddenly get better skills because a "good" communicator wants to talk to them.*


----------



## November

NEM said:


> Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.
> 
> But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?
> 
> About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable.
> 
> I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.
> 
> All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.


I'm totally in the same boat, except that I've provided 90% of the income, all of the maintenance and cleaning of the house, car, boat and plane. She does most of the cooking, and I'm very appreciative. I've provided her with all the care and loving that any woman would want, and she come close to reciprocating, but I sure wish there was a bit more understanding, when I fall down on the job, because I'm tired or just get behind things. And, I really would like if she were more passionate, not only sex, but touch, hug, cuddle, and comments more about how she cares for me.... I can't get enough.

As for listening, we could both improve on that one, but it's certainly not one sided. 

The implication that all men aren't listening goes both ways and is totally inappropriate.


----------



## BrokenLady

People are all a mix of nature & nurture. We left home to go to university when 17/18 years old. We met when I had just turned 21 & he was 22. We moved in together that first weekend really. We've spent a LOT of time together, just the 2 of us. We need to accept that we are just as (if not more) responsible for 'nurturing' eachother as our parents. When things aren't going well that's something I try to remember....His annoying behaviors are often a mix of HIS nature & my (unintentional) nurture of him. 

I'm a people pleaser, to a fault (I'm working on it) & I over analyze things. I've never been one to scream & shout. If my H hurts me I'm guilty of not saying anything until I've thought it through. My H is a bad communicator. For 24 of our 25 years this worked for us! I was secure in his love for me so in any situation I always assumed the best, made excuses, came to understanding....he loves me, wouldn't hurt me intentionally, he must be feeling bad so I don't say anything because it would just hurt his feelings. 

So here's my question to men out there.... Would you rather your wife exploded? Shouted saying extreme things she doesn't really mean? Threw things & screamed? I know it sounds like a strange question but REALLY think about it. My H has said that in these situations he often perceives it as me not caring...apathy rather than protecting his feelings. Simply stating my perception of the situation, calmly expressing my feelings & thoughts (after calming myself & analyzing) can make him feel unloved, not special. 

He describes himself as having a "Toxic Gob". No filter when he's feeling bad. I know the whole 'sticks & stones' thing but I'm over sensitive (something else I'm working on) & words truly hurt & 'break me'. Why would I inflict that pain on my love? Do men find adversity easier to work through if the woman 'gives as good as she gets' & hurls back insults? 

I know in little situations (like purchasing deodorant) the cliche is...men need things spelt out to them. Never assume, hint. Just lay it out in detail. Do men understand verbal violence, ACTION, SHOUTING etc as PASSION, more feeling than calm expression in emotional situations? Recently I 'lost-it' & shouted for the first time in 25 years!! It terrified my H! I think we achieved more in that evening than we had been in MONTHS of calm communication. I'm just not sure I have histrionics in me. Logically, mentally I don't agree with being a drama queen. Is this something I should be working on? For all the negative things men say about it, deep down inside do you need the drama? Do you really like the passion? I'm a cuddles & snuggles woman when I'm hurt.... Would you rather the emotional release of dodging the china being hurled at you?


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

I learned the hard way not to discuss my "feelings'. She wondered why I was feeling stressed, and I spoke about the pressure of being the sole wage earner. I made the mistake of honestly sharing my feelings, wife response was "I can't believe you would feel that WAY!"

Just added more stress to the situation. Wives should not ask if they can't handle the answer.


----------



## Ynot

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> I learned the hard way not to discuss my "feelings'.


So did I, the response was always "I am doing the best I can and if you don't like it I am leaving!" It didn't matter that I paid every bill, bought the groceries, took care of the house, took care of the yard, paid for vacations we couldn't afford, took care of the cars, etc. etc. She was always too (busy, tired, bloated, constipated, take your pick). I guess the best she could involved duty sex once every couple of weeks? Because after all I was just being ridiculous. You know she brought me her desert when she was out with her Girlies, so why should I complain.


----------



## Bobby5000

A few suggestions. 

"1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.
There are differences to the two: hearing us is basically hearing background noise. "Pick up deodorant". Listening is when you actually got the details of what we were saying... " I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
Women FAIL: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows."

Husbands need to use the same approach to speaking with women. If you think she should lose weight, specify how much, what she should eat and followup. If your lovelife is boring, don't mention a vague we should try something new, but give her a detailed list of things she needs to do. Women like direction and being given specific tasks along with constructive feedback- if you she is doing something wrong specific comments are helpful and a written recap also productive. If you find you are going to your inlaws a little too often, specify what you don't like about them and what should be done, and again, a detailed list and followup is very helpful to almost all women. Indeed, your mother-in-law will also welcome your specific suggestions and direction. So if her house is sloppy or colors do not match, any help you can provide in the form of specific direction will surely be welcomed. 

The Helpful Husband


----------



## bandit.45

Huh?



I'm sorry. Did you say something?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr The Other

barbieDoll said:


> So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.
> 
> I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.
> 
> Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*
> 
> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.
> 
> _I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_
> 
> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.
> 
> Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.
> 
> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.
> 
> =========================================
> 
> This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.
> 
> I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.
> 
> And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!
> 
> Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.
> 
> ENJOY!!


This seem to be: Men, stop being *******s. Just like the first advice from IT will be to turn it off and turn it back on again, this is all good sound advice. However, if this were to solve most problems in marriage then the problem in marriage would be the man being an ass. If there are any further issues and the man is not an ass, this advice line will run dry.

Disclaimer acknowledged! Please take this as an appendix to disclaimer.


----------



## November

Good points on this subject.... a few comments....

Listening is a TWO way street. Both need to listen carefully, not just the men. I've gotten to the point, if it's really important, write it down and read it to her and then hand her the paper. She does forget at times, as so do I.

Communication IS important, but actions are MORE important, especially feelings. Talking about feelings can easily bring the wrong result... be careful, and keep feelings talk light and to the point. Going into deep feelings and long talks is for a counselor, not men and women in a relationship.

Now, expression of feelings...an "ILY" or "you mean a lot to me" or "thanks" or "I'm here for you" is VERY IMPORTANT. Those words need to be repeated often between SOs.


----------



## SadSamIAm

NEM said:


> Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.
> 
> But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?
> 
> About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable.
> 
> I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.
> 
> All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.


This is where I am at as well. I feel your pain.

The worst thing is, is that my wife knows exactly what is going on. We have been going through the same cycle for the last 20 years.


----------



## Mr The Other

barbieDoll said:


> So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.
> 
> I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah *Musinex *blah blah blah *liquid*" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.
> 
> Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> There are differences to the two: *hearing *us is basically hearing background noise. "_Pick up deodorant_". *Listening *is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "*Pick up the same deodorant I use*". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*
> 
> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.
> 
> _I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!_
> 
> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.
> 
> Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.
> 
> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.
> 
> =========================================
> 
> This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.
> 
> I also have to put a *disclaimer *that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.
> 
> And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!
> 
> Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.
> 
> ENJOY!!


I have rethought it a little more. 

This is great advice for couples where you have a great wife and a rubbish husband. When it is the other way round, you have a woman who assumes she is great at communication, knows what the man means regardless of what he actually says and feels she is so great at communication that she does not have to try hard when listening.

Some women just ***** and nag, just as some men are ungrateful and lazy. "We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to" is not always true.

And talking about issues and feelings will often be seen as a sign of weakness. When a man has trouble in his life, it might make a woman insecure that his attention is diverted by that dying relative etc. 

Your post is a great tribute to the great women that are out there. It over-reaches beyond that.

And as a man whose favourite sports to partake in are rugby and boxing, I am sorry to say that men typically stick to mental warfare rather than fists and are often rubbish at both styles.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

barbieDoll said:


> *1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.*
> 
> *
> Men FAIL*: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
> *Women FAIL*: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.
> 
> *2. Reciprocate.*


I find it rude that my wife puts so much on me in her requests leaving me to figure it out rather than just giving me clear instructions as to what she wants. Like not paying attention to what kind of deodorant she uses, even as it changes over years, is somehow a message that I am not paying attention to her. 

Another manifestation of this her assumption that I reference the world in the same context and detail that she does. I mean she will go on for 3 min trying to get me acknowledge that I know exactly what house she is talking about 5 blocks from our home. When I keep indicating I have no idea what house she is taking about she keeps giving more and more detail "with those rocks in the yard and these flowers and that car and et...." and she gets frustrated when I have no clue like it is some failing on my part. When the truth is I can't describe the house three doors because frankly I don't put any energy in memorizing things that are not important to me. Let alone some house half a mile away.

"what was that" (after hearing a quiet noise) This literally happens several times a week. I never hear the noise but she always assumes I know what she is talking about or I did hear it and while having no idea what caused it, I don't find it out of the ordinary.





barbieDoll said:


> *Myth*: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
> *Truth*: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.
> 
> Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.


I generally agree with this and I do help with a lot of the basic clean up. Though you can get laundry done and home house cleaning done through services for $600 to $800 a month. If she where to go to work for even $2000/ month take home...well you do the math.




barbieDoll said:


> *3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.*
> 
> I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.



I really tried this for years but it become a competition where she would do her best to prove my words where cheesey and did not mean anything. If it did mean anything to her, it was important to her to show that she could not be moved emotionally by words and she remains this way today.





barbieDoll said:


> *4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.*
> 
> Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!
> 
> *Men FAIL*: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
> *Women FAIL*: FINE.


Tried that also. she refuses to talk about anything relationship. Emotions, sex, feelings--whatever. Shows contempt for me the few times I was emotional about some of my own issues.

This is not some pity party post for me, and the problems in my marriage aside, its a fact that not all women really want what you describe as a relationship. For good or bad.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

tamuser said:


> two things come to mind:
> 
> 1) my wife loves to talk *at length* about her job/school/whatever - often, there's nothing for me to do but say "mmm-hmmm" and nod, or the occasional "you did fine" or "don't worry about that". I'm happy to do this, but after a really long time, it gets old and it feels like she's being really self centered. Problem is, I *don't* like to talk about my work - I'd rather leave it at the office, and so I can't do a clean reciprocation (or even get a word in edgewise, to tell the truth). I understand that she has a need for this "conversation", so I do my best to fill it. It can sure seem excessive, though, and I haven't found a great way to shut it off when I've had enough without causing problems.
> 
> 2) She doesn't really want to hear about my feelings. She does if they're good and they re-enforce the stability she likes to feel, but if I feel depressed or other negative emotions, it appears to freak her out and make her very anxious. She ends those conversations as soon as she can. It may be related to the fact that I'm the primary breadwinner and if I were to spiral out of control and lose my job or something, our lives would take a big hit.


Worse you could talk about your work problems and challenges and then like me, get blamed "for bring your work home", "only talking about work", "always complaining"," being negative", or me favorite "complaining about things that she can't do anything about/nothing to do with her".
I have listened and analysed the complaints she gives, after listen are actually two fold :
(1) I'm talking, so she can't be talking about her thoughts
(2) They're things that aren't about her.

Analysis has indicated that a man being involved in "discussion" must avoid (1) and (2) to be at the correct communication level of participation.
A woman frequently appear to feel, however that her stating these things is communication with others. Often this "communication" is not instruction nor does it involve direction; so it is important to be ready to decode the poor communcation standard that results from an untrained and undisciplined speaker when they do try and intimate their directives and relationship concerns. 
(again, as another poster has indicated, as businesses people, salespeople, and upper level management, you're expected to have actual training in such skills as they are an important part of dealing with others without those skills)


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## VirgenTecate

I deleted my previous post as it was too personal buuuuuut...

I think making this gender specific is the wrong way to go.

I do believe there are differences between the genders but communication breakdowns are equally both genders fault.

I also find the "men" example in this more of a "selfish" person example. That can fall to men or women.

Erase the genders in this one, and you have a good conversation starter about conversation breakdowns. The ones we have been having for years. The one where we give too much and the other too little. The one where we never knew we were communicating poorly.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

Men like to try fix things, whereas women want to know you are listening when they talk, but they are not necessarily awaiting a answer from you.


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## Spotthedeaddog

VirgenTecate said:


> Erase the genders in this one, and you have a good conversation starter about conversation breakdowns. The ones we have been having for years. The one where we give too much and the other too little. The one where we never knew we were communicating poorly.



sadly one group of considers itself natural communicators, especially when they talk so much (and say so little).


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## VirgenTecate

spotthedeaddog said:


> sadly one group of considers itself natural communicators, especially when they talk so much (and say so little).


I think it is a matter of a previous quote



> Men like to try fix things, whereas women want to know you are listening when they talk, but they are not necessarily awaiting a answer from you.


There are different directions to the communication. Women may be trying to force men to their directive through verbal force. Men may be dodging that verbal force and trying to force women to think "more logical" when the logic they are applying is missing the emotional logic women are looking for.

Then there are some men and women who are emotionally immature and selfish. They may display that in traditionally masculine or feminine ways or simply be *******s about it.


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## anchorwatch

It's a lot easier when both sides admit neither of you are perfect... and recognize your SO isn't you. 

We think differently, it's not personal. 

"Mark Gungor - The Nothing Box - Part 1" on YouTube

The short version, Watch "Mark Gungor - The Nothing Box - Part 1"


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