# Do I Confront Her?



## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

OK, first post here but I'm desperate for some advice. My wife has entered into a "relationship" with another man. Nothing sexual, just emotional, which is bad enough. It started as providing support for each other as they both deal with their own marriage issues, but she has revealed to me at least one of them has feeling for the other (at least her, and I assume him as well since she is attractive and much younger).

A quick back-story, I suffer from what you would call a flat affect at times. I'm a great husband, but I have historically been emotionally unavailable. I listen well, but I don't share my own feelings very often. I never express my wants and needs and live my life around my wife and kids. In addition, I have rarely told her how attractive she is to me. What passion I have for her. How I crave her touch. She felt that I just didn't care about her and that we were like roommates. 

This has caused great loneliness in my wife and she craves that emotional connection. She is tired of telling me what to do and wants me to speak for myself. We started therapy a year ago and around 4-6 months ago, she stopped enabling me. I've been dealing with my issues (with medication, not therapy yet) and I have improved a lot, but I'm still not where she needs me to be. It wasn't until she revealed the depth of her relationship with him and threatened to leave me that I "woke up." Anger really opened me up and I have been very present, free flowing with emotions. A different man. Constantly craving her and expressing it. Unfortunately, she can't forget the past 8-10 years where I wasn't there. She checked out of our marriage months ago and is really struggling to reconnect with me, even though she still loves me more than anything. She just doesn't believe we are in love.

With that said, I understand her need to connect with someone, but we both admit this relationship is inappropriate. She just isn't willing to give it up or give us up. But I can't stand being in limbo. I would be devastated if we separated. I'm extremely jealous and possessive (internally). I couldn't stand her leaving me or being with someone else.

I expressed how hurt I was and asked her to stop meeting with him. I was OK with texting/phone, but after speaking with our therapist, they suggested either we separate or the relationship ends. It was two hard/confusion for both of us. My wife was forced into making a decision she wasn't ready to make and after a few days of real pain, she relented and agreed not to be in contact with him. I told her I trusted her decision and would stop spying on her (cell phone records), and she told me about two occasions where the spoke strictly platonically about an issue he was having.

The past 10 days since that decision have been awful. She is in a really bad place. I have been awake for around a month and it almost seems like we have switched roles. She's unavailable and I'm trying my best to reconnect. I have been giving her space and she has taken it every few days. The first time was tough. I questioned where she was the entire time (because she is usually texting me a lot and was silent this day), but I didn't spy on her. I had a tough time and expressed my jealously when she returned and we had a good talk. After a hard day with the kids yesterday, I she went out again, this time for 8-10 hours. Again, I trusted her and didn't spy...until today.

Well, today is was too much for me. She has been so distant and I'm so frustrated. I checked the cell history and lo and behold, she has been in almost constant communication with him. Even last night when she was out with her friend (which she was) they were texting the entire time. And before going out, there was almost 3 hours of talk as well.

What am I to do? Do I confront her and reveal I betrayed he trust? What if they are truly just support for one another? Helping each other through really tough times in their respective marriages? If I reveal I was spying again, I will make things harder for my wife and I. Of course, I'm almost sick with jealousy so where do my feelings come into play? I don't know what to do. I still love her and I'm working my a$$ off to win her back. She is just so disconnected and confused right now. Do I sit on this info and see where we go?

Sorry for the longwinded post. I just felt like both sides need to have a word. If I just expressed my side, no one would understand where my wife is at. 

Please help. TIA


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Here's my thoughts, as someone who cheated. You shouldn't have said that you wouldn't check her communication. What you both should have said is that you'll leave everything open. Your phone, her phone, etc.

For now, remember that you had enough cause to be suspicious about her actions, and so you checked. She broke your trust once, and she's done it again. Don't let her focus the problem back on you reading her communications history. The real problem is that she's communicating with him.

Keep in mind, if you attempt to fix things again, that there's about 17 billion ways to communicate that you'll have no way of knowing about. So many apps on the phone have "hidden" chats and messages, and you'll never see them in the phone logs. She could get a throwaway phone. She could email from her work account. So don't get too complacent if she opens up her phone to you.

C


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Confront her. It was crap that you agreed not to snoop in the first place. Get angry because she's still cheating. Who cares how you found out the point is you did. Deal with it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Read and post in Coping with Infidelity.

Being nice and giving her space is not going to get you your wife back.

Doing things like packing her belongings and leaving them in your driveway, tellling his wife, exposing the affair... That's where your head needs to be.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I would confront her anyway. She's not being honest with you and that is impeding any progress you make in your marriage. Either she's all in or she's not.

This relationship she has is NOT positive for your marriage in any way shape or form and it needs to stop. The emotional attachment she needs to rekindle with you will never happen if she's depositing those feelings into someone else.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Oh, and if you do confront her, don't tell her what you know or how. Force her to be honest with you. Otherwise, you'll most likely just drive their communications underground, and the only things she'll confess to are the things you already know.

You need to do a bunch of reading in the Infidelity forum to learn how to bust the affair. If that's what you want to do.

C


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

No contact with OM, better boundaries, and transparency for starters. Hold yourself and her both accountable. I would post more but your name and story screams troll to me.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your advice. A lot of different approaches here, but I think I will just straight up ask her about this week and not offer that I know. We will see where that goes and hopefully she opens up.

I have a hard time going to the extreme and kicking her out (or at least going through the motions). I love her and I'm working hard to be a more complete person. For me and for us. I couldn't stand to be without her (yes, the word codependancy does ring a bell). I'm the one who keeps puching back when she suggests a separation.

Very conflicted as this does nothing but hurt me. I agree that we can't foster an emotional connection while this continues. If she truly wants us to work, she has break it off.

I'm not a troll. Just love the name. Like an anti-hero.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Packing her bags and leaving them in your driveway is just that. It's not kicking her out.

She needs to know you are quite serious.

If you operate out of fear, of losing her you have NO CHANCE. 

Spend a few hours today reading about "copiing with Infedility". You will see as posts play out over time what works and what does not work.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

You cannot not confront if that makes sense. She is seeing another man and lying to you about it, or at least hiding it. You cannot build a marriage on that. Ultimately she has to choose.

If it were me, I would frtak her whether she has maintained no contact. If she admits to the contact you can have an honest discussion. If she denies it, I would simply say that I know he is lying and ask her to leave for a few days.

If she is going to cheat, if she is going to choose the OM, ultimately you can't stop her.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Reading up on the Coping with Infidelity pages. If tonight takes a turn for the worse, do I really have to follow the Exposure route? She has sent an NC and even read it to me. She just hasn't been compliant (nor has he I imagine). Given that this is just an EA?

Also, she definitely seems to be leaning more towards Rug Sweeping vs. genuine R. It's difficult being the passive person. It takes me time to reflect on my thoughts and I often "lose" arguments. Maybe I'm not challenging her enough to see the true remorse and get a better sense that she want to reconcile.

I definitely need to stand up for myself and insist on transparency. I have that right.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The only thing you must do is you cannot tolerate a marriage that is not to your standards of what a marriage needs to be.

She must be made by you to make a choice, her marriage or her affair.

The reason for exposure is to improve the chances that she chooses her marriage over her affair, beucase exposed affairs are no fun.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

sarcasmo said:


> Reading up on the Coping with Infidelity pages. If tonight takes a turn for the worse, do I really have to follow the Exposure route? She has sent an NC and even read it to me. She just hasn't been compliant (nor has he I imagine). Given that *this is just an EA*?
> 
> Also, she definitely seems to be leaning more towards Rug Sweeping vs. genuine R. It's difficult being the passive person. It takes me time to reflect on my thoughts and I often "lose" arguments. Maybe I'm not challenging her enough to see the true remorse and get a better sense that she want to reconcile.
> 
> I definitely need to stand up for myself and insist on transparency. I have that right.


EA's are just as serious and damaging as PA's if not WORSE because emotions are heavily invested.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

She needs to "connect" with someone ?
If om is married you should connect with 
his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Well it didn't go as well as planned. I really have no idea where we are at. This is part of my issue. Lack of emotional intelligence if you will. I'm hurt over this person, but really he doesn't even matter. She's leaving me because I have no identity. I have no sense if self. Maybe I've showed up emotionally lately, but I left her alone (emotionally) for 8 years. If we are going to work, I need to fix me. I have a lot of issues. I'm a great husband and father. No doubt, but I have to figure out who I am before we can be together. Maybe if I say it out loud I'll believe it. 

From here the only option is a separation. Until I prove I'm getting better, there can't be an us. That is devastating to me. I don't want this. It's not my choice, but she's done feeling like she has to nag me to take care of important things. She's doesn't want to be that person anymore. I have to prove to her I can make it without her for her to want to make us work again. She's done feeling empty and alone. 

This was never about him. He's complicating things, sure, but its about her and I and us. I've been way too focused on him when I need to get back to me. I don't even know if I'm explaining it right. I think as much as it hurts the only way I can save us is to work on me getting better. I just pray she doesn't do something stupid before we get to the point where we even have a chance to reconcile. While I love her more than anything, I don't know if I could forgive that. Even though we are separated, I still feel like we have to stay faithful. I'm going to have to get over that if this is for real. I just can't even imagine the thought of bring with someone else. I'm still in love. 

Anyway, thanks for your help. I'm sorry if I mislead everyone. I'm obviously confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarcasmo,

What you've just experienced is called "blame shifting"- the wayward spouse turns their problem into "it's your fault"

Please spend more time in the coping with infidelity section, and read or re read the "newbies" post.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

She is the one betraying you. Your marriage cannot function as long as she is communicating with this guy behind your back. I don't care what they are talking about if she is leaning on another man for emotional support who isn't a relative she is betraying you. I would let her know that you know she is still communicating with this guy and ask her if you can put a device on her phone to monitor who she is communicating with. There should be total transparency.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

She either cuts it off now and never has contact again or you're done. Period. Say it and mean it.


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## dgtal (Jun 11, 2010)

Sarc, you are a victim of gaslighting. Go to CWI and search
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

I'll keep reading up on this site. It's new to me today so I have a lot to still soak in. 

I know I'm sounding like the typical victim here, but I really do have a false sense of where we are at. First off, she has suggested the separation several times but my fear if losing her has me resisting it. Giving her an ultimatum won't do anything. She wants to to have space and I'm the one fighting to stay together. 

Fact of the matter is we have never truly emotionally connected. At least, not to the extent that she needs me to be connected. As I explained, I have a hard time with emotions. Google Alexithymia to get an idea of how I have behaved during our relationship. Not that I have that condition, but something in my past makes me behave similarly. Until recently, putting feelings into words has been painfully tough for me. With that, she has a point. Maybe I'm gaslighting her. Trying to convince her that my recollection of the part is the real one. Another issue I have is with memory (man I sound like a winner!! Just kidding. I'm trying not to be self deprecating). I don't trust my memories since they are always foggy at best. 

I agree that this EA cannot continue if we are going to save out marriage I gave expressed that and asked for it to end. Her view is that she's not ready to commit to fixing us. There is too much pain and resentment. She's not ready to give up on us, but can't commit either. A separation seems like trilby option here. I do fear this man now that we are about to enter a separation, but I feel exposing them will just cause a bigger rift between us. Further proof that I just don't understand the point of our issues and separation. 

It's easy to talk here in a vacuum, having you only hear my side, but in reality our situation is more complex. I'm equally responsible for where we are at. She checked out of our marriage months ago, long before the EA, allowing herself to be ok with having an EA. Even if she hadn't made this connection, we would still be in the same place except that my emotions may still be suppressed. If anything, the EA and the anger and betrayal I felt brought out all of my emotions. Without it, I might still be as unavailable and we would be no better off I'm not saying its a good thing. Hardly. But I think she resents the fact that it took another man for me to change. Like changing for her wasn't enough. For 8 years I couldn't change for her, but now that I'm threatened, I can do it? I can see why she's frustrated. I'm equally frustrated. Where was I for 8 years? Why do I feel like we were happier than we were? 

I feel like my only option is to heed her advice and seek help for me. In the meantime I have to hope and pray that she realizes there was more to our relationship than she thinks and comes around to reconciling. I can't convince her that her feelings are wrong. She needs to come to that conclusion organically. If at all. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Because you refuse to make the hard choices and man up, you are sharing your wife with another man. 

Her request for space is for her to have an opportunity to escalate the affair without your interference. That is if she hasn't already. 

It also gives her a chance to "try out" the other man so if things don't work out, the best you will ever be is her backup plan. Are you okay with that? 

Separation is never the answer when one party is in an affair. She cuts contact whith him or you file for divorce. You cannot be afraid of losing her, this is what is keeping you from doing what you need to do. 

Honestly, do you think she's going to stay faithful during the seperation??? She can't even stay faithful while your together!! 
No contact or divorce and if she wants to leave, let her and then find someone who will respect you. Do you have so little self respect that you'll be willing to be with someone who does not want to be with you.?

By the way, no matter what you've done wrong in the marriage, going outside of it is never the answer so stop blaming yourself for the affair. 

Continue to read the Infidelity section. These people here have been where you are and know what they are talking about


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You should spend a few days reading through the coping with infidelity section. Just start backwards from page 100 and work your way through different stories to get a feel for what works and doesn't work. See how other people handle the situation you're in.

A lot of people here seem to already have this covered but I will say you're going about this situation entirely the wrong way.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Sarcasmo, read what is being said to you. This advice is coming from people who have been where you are, who have been where you wife is and who have seen this scenario play again and again in the Coping With Infidelity boards.

First of all, stop beating yourself up. What's done is done, you can't change the past now. You can learn from it, but you cannot change it, therefore you should own it, mistakes, failures, bad times, good times, successes whatever.

Second, whatever you may have done, what your wife is doing now is a horrible thing. She started an emotional affair, got caught, agreed to stop it(huge mistake from you here! WTF were you thinking?), deceived you(big surprise), continued the affair and is now blameshifting(and you're lapping it up.) Where are your boundaries? Is there no consequence for her actions? Are you that desperate for female contact that you are willing to let her step on you and disrespect you so blatantly? Are you this afraid of putting your foot down?

I know that she must have been frustrated and unhappy in the marriage. But she took a very wrong way to deal with it. Instead of putting her foot down and saying "Get your act together or I'm leaving to find a better man.", she got what was missing while milking you for the benefits of your marriage. Sounds like you are both a bit dysfunctional.

Now an action plan for you:

-Sit her down and tell her "Listen, I love you very deeply and I want to make this marriage work. But this cannot happen when we are separated(Note:Separation whilst an affair is in place, is just beneficial for the Wayward, He/she will probably become more enmeshed with the affair during this time). Either you stop the affair and we both work on ourselves and our marriage or we divorce. Your choice". If she decides to go No Contact(AGAIN!), make sure it is in place. Expose to the OM's wife or gf because she is getting screwed over too and she may help bring an end to the affair. Put some consequences in order(ie : File for divorce without a question if the No Contact is breached). If she chooses divorce, contact an attorney immediately.

-Do the 180 to emotionally detach a bit. Even though you may have failed to show it to her, you are emotionally enmeshed with her, thus you are acting clingy and needy.

-Remember filing for divorce or even divorcing is not the end for a chance at reconcilliation. But you have to be willing to let go in order to save your marriage.

-You seem like a Nice Guy. You are afraid to put your foot down, afraid to own and work on your faults, afraid of showing needs but ironically being extremely needy at the same time. I implore you to read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Nice Guys tend to leave frustrated people in their wake by being cowardly and wimpy. As a recovering Nice Guy myself, I see some of those traits in you.

-You probably don't understand women very well and you have this romantic view of life that "Women will love me for the special snowflake that I am" making you unable to work on your issues. Take the red pill and read "Married Man Sex Life Primer".

-Working through your problems is hard when you're alone. Get some counseling/therapy for yourself.

-Don't do these for your wife. Even you decide to divorce, work on yourself. You can be happy and genuinely satisfied with your life.

-She is not the only woman on the world. You will not die without her. But you may never be happy in this or future relationships and marriage if you don't WORK ON YOURSELF.

Again, listen to what people are saying here. Don't be stubborn you are here because how you deal with things aren't working in the present.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Re: Do I Confront Her?*



jfv said:


> Because you refuse to make the hard choices and man up, you are sharing your wife with another man.
> 
> Her request for space is for her to have an opportunity to escalate the affair without your interference. That is if she hasn't already.
> 
> ...


This.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi -

Woman's POV.

Stop beating yourself up. If your wife was so damn unhappy with you for 8 long years, then she should have left you or would have left you.

Get it?

She has met someone else. Period. I am sure this is a physical affair. 

You said the OM is married & has "troubles" that he talks about with your wife. Typical sympathy card to get your wife to sleep with him.

He probably will not be leaving his wife & children for your wife. Most family OM's do not but they tell their AP's they will so that the affair can continue.

I know you love her & don't want to lose her but right now you have already lost her. She is only staying in the marital home until such time that the OM sets up a lovenest...which may never happen.

The same thing happened to my husband. His wife started doing her marrried boss, blamed my husband, moved him out & the OM moved in during the week & went home to his wife & kids on the weekend all the while promising her he would leave his family.

Never happened.

My husband blamed himself for her affair, his 2 children suffered horribly during this & my husband never fought back. Very sad.

I would fight for my marriage. I would contact the OMW & blow this affair wide open. I would do the 180.

Good luck.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks again to everyone for their advice. I know I come across as stubborn and weak and a victim, but I'm trying to do what's best for my situation. I have read your replies and other threads and used the information that has resonated with me. I'm sorry if I seem stubborn for not following the program. I love my wife and neither of us wants to harm our 3 young children. Did I mention we were pregnant or nursing 7 of those 8 years? It's only recently my wife has been able to get her sense of self back, so it makes sense this past year (which include marriage counseling and me medicating my anxiety) we have had a lot of change and soul searching.

Anyway, today we sent the kids out with Nana and had a long talk. It started out frustrating, but we eventually found peace and reached an agreement. The basics haven't changed. I need to work on my and she needs to work on her. That's obvious if we ever want to reconcile and make it. W/out this we will be back here eventually.

We are going to live separated under the same roof. Mainly for the sake of our kids, but it feels right for us as well. Intimacy will be simple I love you's, hugs, and brief good morning/good bye kisses for now. I think I need to stay away from anything more intimate so that I don't get confused about where we are. If something happens, that does change where we are at until we communicate it with words and are both in agreement.

We are both going to have appointments with separate therapists arranged ASAP. I have already called 3 and she has called some as well. I'm definitely looking forward to working though my issues and finding myself. I'm scared that I will fall back into my old habits of being disconnected because I wont have a partner to practice with, but I think I'm in a good place to start therapy and really get into my issues.

She will remain in contact with her friend for now. If through therapy she reaches the decision to break it off, then that's great. If not, and her therapist helps her realize it's OK, then it is what it is. I don't have to like it, but she created the problem and it's on her to solve it. By whatever means are necessary. 

I'm not happy about this part of the arrangement, but she has assured me it's not a PA and if it ever approaches that, we will talk about it. I trust my wife. Outside of this adventure, we have never lied to each other. We are honest to a fault. I have to trust her and I know none of you will understand this.

I know this wont sit well with most of you, but it is what feels right for me and my situation. I will keep you all updated as we progress.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Sarcasmo I am one who waited out my wife's affair. I protested, I fought, but did not leave her. She eventually came back to the marriage because she believed in the sanctity of marriage, and I was so hurt that I stayed only for the children. So I get your perspective.

The issue you have to consider is this. Your wife assures you it is not physical, and she will do the right thing. Why does that mean any more than her promise of no contact, that was not kept?

If you assume she is unlikely to be truthful with you (which is what I believe) then does that affect your decision at all?

Your current approach may work, but it is going to be very hard on you and the scars will be deeper than you can imagine.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Stop calling him her 'friend' he's her Affair Partner. Don't allow her to legitimize their relationship. It is torrid and it is breaking up your family.

"Outside of this adventure" she's never lied to you? These are the kind of lies that count. I'd rather be told a million white lies over the course of a marriage than one lie of this magnitude. She's lied to you in the worst possible way. Don't give her credit for being an honest person. That version of your wife is gone forever. 

She has earned your distrust. Why is it that you have to trust her?

Why are you not in marriage counseling as well? Is it so she doesn't have to discuss her affair.?

Have you exposed this afair to anyone else.? His wife your family?
If not, what are you waiting for?

The sad truth is the people on this board probably understand better than you do in alot of ways because they've already seen the results of the path you've chosen. 

Your wife is in an affair fog. This is why the other guy has to go before anything can be fixed. 

As for you sarcasmo, keep in mind. Fear creates a fog of its own.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Meh.

What can I say, I understand your fear of abandonment and losing your family. But I cannot sympathize with you. You have blind trust towards someone who shoved the reasons to not have that kind of blind trust down your throat. Yet you are still afraid of taking action. 

I would continue reading the CWI boards if I were you. And when you are ready, read my above post again.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

First, you are not to blame for her cheating. Once you were made aware by her what she wanted from you, you tried to change to meet that need. This proves that though you are not perfect, you care enough to try if only she had communicated with your rather than cheated on you. She is cheating and blame shifting because that is what all cheaters do. You are both 50%-50% responsible for the problems in your marraige, but she is 100% responsible for her cheating.

Second, what you are proposing to do will not work. You have in reality agreed to let her cheat with no consequences. She now knows that if she has not already escalated it from an emotional affair (EA) to include a physical affair (PA), that she is now free to do so with no consequences. Additionally, most cheaters falsely believe that a separation means that they are no longer bound by the fidelity rules of their marraige, and can now cheat guilt free. To make matters worse, she has also made it clear that you are to limit all intimacy with her so that she can now tell her affair partner (AP) that she is now fully faithful to him. This is so warped an arrangement that having sex with you will be consider cheating on her AP. This agreement hands your wife over to he AP.

Third, this agreement is such that she will lose all respect for you because she cannot respect a doormat. Since no women can be in love with someone that she does not respect, you have almost zero chance of getting her back if you stay on this path. Your only chance now it to be willing to lose the marraige if she does not respect you and the marraige. You must be willing to file for divorce and mean it if she does not agree to break off all contact with the AP just like the MC told her to (when everyone here and the MC tell you to do the same thing, you know that it is good advice). Since she has proven not to be trust worthy, you must also demand full transparency which would include, all passwords and an agreement not to delete any communication records. At this point she may call your bluff, so you must be willing to move forward with divorce and full exposure of her cheating to family and friends. There is no guarantee that this will work, but is gives you the best odds as what you are currently doing will more than likely fail. You must act now with no delay. Time is not on your side. Every day that this continues, you lose traction and the AP gains traction. Remember that you can never nice your way out of your wife's affair. I am sorry that you are here. Be well and good luck.

One more thing. *Request to have this moved to the infidelity section since this is at least an emotional affair.*


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