# LD Folks - Do you wish you were HD?



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Of course I do. 

I would LOVE to experience a high sexual desire. I would LOVE to be hot & horny for my husband daily. 

I have seen LD people here called selfish over & over. Utterly ridiculous. 

As for the LD men, how do you think THEY feel? Less of a man, I am guessing & embarrassed. I don't see them post here looking for help, but I do see their wives posting.

I am married to an LD man. His past women have said horrible things to him for something he cannot control or fix because if he could fix it, he would, as would I.

Now if I were not married, then I would not be called selfish. But get married with the "disease" of LD, then you must be a horrible person.

I am not talking about "bait & switch." That is fraud.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I have never seen a LD person being called selfish here unless they had done a bait and switch or are not being honest with their partner.

LD, HD, average drive, what does it matter? The only thing that matters is compatibility and when someone fakes compatibility for the purpose of snagging a mate then yes they are selfish.


----------



## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

If you found an LD man, your libidos match, and you are happy, why should you wish you were something else?


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

You're totally right Emerald. I don't know where all of this sudden LD love comes from, considering usually they are called all manner of things, none of which is their God given name. 

It's not nice. Usually, it's not nice. And sometimes, it is just downright mean spirited.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> If you found an LD man, your libidos match, and you are happy, why should you wish you were something else?


I got lucky but we've only been together 4 yrs. however I was married to an HD man for 22 yrs. in addition to long-term HD boyfriends prior to marriage - so years of pain & frustration - I wanted to change to HD.

I would still like to experience intense sexual desire even with my LD husband. I would understand first hand his level of desire & work with it, coming from a place of compassion & knowledge of the issue.

My question remains for LD people. I have answered honestly.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> You're totally right Emerald. I don't know where all of this sudden LD love comes from, considering usually they are called all manner of things, none of which is their God given name.
> 
> It's not nice. Usually, it's not nice. And sometimes, it is just downright mean spirited.


Give me a break, LB. Any time a LD person has been talked to in such a manner as you have described, it is because they have the attitude of "Why should I have sex more just because he wants it? I don't want it, so he should be happy I am giving it up at all!" That's the attitude that gets everyone in an uproar. That's the attitude that will kill a marriage. 

Emerald, as jaharthur said, you are married to a LD man...so why would you wish to be HD with a man who is LD? Your drives are matched, so why would you wish to mismatch?? :scratchhead:


----------



## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

Holland said:


> I have never seen a LD person being called selfish here unless they had done a bait and switch or are not being honest with their partner.
> 
> LD, HD, average drive, what does it matter? The only thing that matters is compatibility and when someone fakes compatibility for the purpose of snagging a mate then yes they are selfish.




I always get the impression from some of the HD people who post here that LD people who marry their partners are either extremely selfish individuals or second rate citizens. I try to avoid those discussions.
My partner and I are extremely compatible with the exception of he is HD and I am LD. We both know this about each other, and both of us totally committed to making sure the other is happy sexually, so I don't totally get what the issue is if both partners are happy in the relationship. 

As for the original question, I really don't wish to be HD. I'd like to experience it for a day or two, to further understand where my partner is coming from, but completely change for good? I wouldn't want that at all. It's not who I am, or have ever been.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> I always get the impression from some of the HD people who post here that LD people who marry their partners are either extremely selfish individuals or second rate citizens. I try to avoid those discussions.
> My partner and I are extremely compatible with the exception of he is HD and I am LD. We both know this about each other, and *both of us totally committed to making sure the other is happy sexually*,so I don't totally get what the issue is.


That is the problem many HD are dealing with on here...their SOs aren't doing what you and your partner do: work together. Many of them have spouses who put them off because they hope that will keep them from having to "put out". And that is what get's the HD upset...the fact that they WANT to work with their spouses, but the spouses say "my way or nothing at all." 



EntirelyDifferent said:


> As for the original question, I really don't wish to be HD. I'd like to experience it for a day or two, to further understand where my partner is coming from, but completely change for good? I wouldn't want that at all. It's not who I am, or have ever been.


I'd guess I would fall in the "normal" drive range. I wouldn't want to be HD, but I wish my husband was able to be higher drive than he currently is. At this time, I wish we could find something to reverse what his medications have done to his libido. Before this issue, we were fairly evenly matched as well.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> I always get the impression from some of the HD people who post here that LD people who marry their partners are either extremely selfish individuals or second rate citizens. I try to avoid those discussions.
> My partner and I are extremely compatible with the exception of he is HD and I am LD. We both know this about each other, and both of us totally committed to making sure the other is happy sexually,so I don't totally get what the issue is.
> 
> As for the original question, I really don't wish to be HD. I'd like to experience it for a day or two, to further understand where my partner is coming from, but completely change for good? I wouldn't want that at all. It's not who I am, or have ever been.


Thank you for your honesty. I am happy you are comfortable with your sexually.

This forum aside, there is a stigma attached to a low sexual desire. It can sometimes be seen as a defect for something that people "can" be born with aka no fault of their own.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Give me a break, LB. Any time a LD person has been talked to in such a manner as you have described, it is because they have the attitude of "Why should I have sex more just because he wants it? I don't want it, so he should be happy I am giving it up at all!" That's the attitude that gets everyone in an uproar. That's the attitude that will kill a marriage.
> 
> Emerald, as jaharthur said, you are married to a LD man...so why would you wish to be HD with a man who is LD? Your drives are matched, so why would you wish to mismatch?? :scratchhead:


This is untrue.

We read posts where the wife/husband (but usually wife) isn't putting out and we don't have the other person's perspective. We don't have their side of the story.

And yet, many of the comments can be derogatory towards the LD (who isn't even here to defend themselves). 

I understand everyone is just trying to help but there is a trend of making that person into a villain.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> This is untrue.
> 
> We read posts where the wife/husband (but usually wife) isn't putting out and we don't have the other person's perspective. We don't have their side of the story.
> 
> ...


Umm, yes it is true, LB. There have been threads started by LD people asking "why should I give more? I'm happy with once every 6 weeks, why can't my wife/husband just deal with it and leave me alone?" I have seen them, before the OPs deleted them in a huff. Even the most constructive replies were met with hostility from the OPs. Just because you have yet to run into threads like that doesn't mean they have never been here.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Umm, yes it is true, LB. There have been threads started by LD people asking "why should I give more? I'm happy with once every 6 weeks, why can't my wife/husband just deal with it and leave me alone?" I have seen them, before the OPs deleted them in a huff. Even the most constructive replies were met with hostility from the OPs. Just because you have yet to run into threads like that doesn't mean they have never been here.


I think all the LD people on here have been scared away. So it's hard for me to say.


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Really? I know of several admittedly LD people on here.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Relationship between LD and HD in a marriage, with all logical considerations, should be avoided. BUT it doesn't mean it cannot work. It is still possible to have a successful LD and HD marriage.

As long as LD is giving his/her best efforts to make HD sexually happy, the HD could still have a good life. 

Having LD spouse does not means HD must also become LD.

Having an LD spouse whom are still trying to meet HD's sexual needs, is MUCH better than having a spouse who is NOT LD, but simply not enjoying having sex with his/her spouse. 

If we are to speak in general terms, there are other factors which must be taken into equation. Sex is one huge important factor in marriage. But, there are other factor to consider. 

Does your spouse respect you and makes you feels respected? 

Does your spouse giving you the emotional security of being able to be yourself? To be at ease around him/her? 

Does your spouse cooperate with you to make your home enjoyable to life in? 

Does your spouse make serious efforts to care for your physical well-being? 

Does your spouse shows warmth and affection even when you're in grumpy mood due to the pressures of everyday life? 

Does your spouse always tried to communicate with you in the way which does not cause you resentment? 

So you see, there are many many factor to consider. An LD spouse could get a "barely pass/C--" mark in sex, but if he/she got "A+" in everything else, then don't you think it would be foolish to let him/her go? 

For a naturally LD person, getting a "barely pass/C--" mark requires efforts, because he/she is already a natural "F" in that department.

Not everybody is going to be a great lover, or to be good in bed. But everybody could make serious efforts to make their SO feel loved, both in sexual terms and in general terms.

It is not always the end results that matters, but it's the real serious effort and the intention.

Nobody says it's going to be easy. There will be lots of compromise and adjustments. If you want a life without compromise and adjustments, don't get married.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> This is untrue.
> 
> We read posts where the wife/husband (but usually wife) isn't putting out and we don't have the other person's perspective. We don't have their side of the story.
> 
> ...


Wrong LB,

We have indeed had ladies (but never a man, AFAIK) who come on here and say "why should I have sex if I don't want to". There are not many, though, probably because anybody with that attitude realizes it's selfish and would make them look bad if they publicized it.

I don't think anybody here is trying to make a very LD person or outright sexual refuser out to be a villain. But, honestly, the person who refuses to work on the sexual aspect of the relationship has done that to themselves, and probably deserves a measure of disapproval.

Simply put, as long as the refused spouse is a decent man or woman (that DOES NOT MEAN spectacular in any aspect), there is no reason for the refusing spouse to refuse to work on the sexual aspect of the relationship. So, unless you are implying that someone who comes to TMB and complains about sex is a liar or a troll, there is no reason to temper our advice.

We take it for granted that the poster is giving at least a reasonably accurate portrayal of the situation, and know that biases exist in cases like these.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Living with someone who is LD is a living hell, when you are HD..

Why would you want to change it. If you are both matched in drives?


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I honestly don't know where I personally fall on the spectrum. My marriage had become sexless, and even when it wasn't it was 2-3x a week, that was plenty for me (but I still would pleasure myself when I had my own time). When my ex left me she accused me of just being LD and that I'd be happier with an LD spouse instead - but to me I guess I've always presumed that is the inferior way.

I was thinking a lot about this from my own experience, in that I was basically raised to believe that sex is irrelavent - I have never once seen my parents express any sexual desire for each other (though lots of affection and other ways of expressing their love for each other, just not sexual), and so when I was in a sexual relationship I had a lot of guilt about it, same with masturbation, but I think most people when they experience sex it is a natural reward system, for me that reward was always tainted with guilt. 

Then when I got married it was a huge burden off my shoulders, except I still thought that sex was supposed to be a certain way and I would never push the envelope, never do anything crazy or kinky with my W because of the shame and guilt.

So to accept myself as LD is accepting myself as inferior, or at the least just have an unhealthy approach to sex. It's not that I have a LD, just that I've had too much "success" at repressing it. It broke my heart to realize I convinced my ex W to believe I was LD.


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

But is 2-3 x a week LD? I would say that is pretty average.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Holland said:


> But is 2-3 x a week LD? I would say that is pretty average.


2x-3x per week, average? I tend to agree with this.

I am in the 1x/2x per week camp, because I am at home only 2 days in a week. If there are long holidays, where I could be at home 4 days, we sometimes manage 2x/3x of lovemaking during those 4 days. When I am away from my wife, I don't feel the urge to bonk her at all. 

Even when I was younger and having fun with many women, I had maybe 3x-4x a week at my peak. Having daily sex to me is a waste of energy. There are so much things to be done besides bonking.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Holland said:


> But is 2-3 x a week LD? I would say that is pretty average.


Unfortunately, 2-3x per week is statistically above average. In my case, WAY above average ... but that's not because I'm LD.


----------



## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

There was just a post on here the other day from a woman that was happy her husband did not want sex because she was LD,but it was more of he had just given up.

What you hear from a lot of posters on here is the LD person will not make any changes to try and work with the HD partner,it just NO sex. point blank .

If you know it will keep your partner happy why not give them oral or use your hands or fingers or lay there while they get themsleves off with a hand or toy, kiss and comfert them, these all take a few minutes a number of times a week instead of just NO SEX.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

dubbizle said:


> There was just a post on here the other day from a woman that was happy her husband did not want sex because she was LD,but it was more of he had just given up.
> 
> What you hear from a lot of posters on here is the LD person will not make any changes to try and work with the HD partner,it just NO sex. point blank .
> 
> If you know it will keep your partner happy why not give them oral or use your hands or fingers or lay there while they get themsleves off with a hand or toy, kiss and comfert them, these all take a few minutes a number of times a week instead of just NO SEX.


Yup. It is the *intention and effort* to make the SO happy that matters the most.

No mood for PIV? Fine, there's always oral. Disgusted with oral? Fine, there's always HJ. Too tired to give HJ? Ok, just strip naked and accompany your spouse while she/he masturbated her/himself to O, with your approval. 

If LD won't even grant that last request, then I guess we could really ask about where's the intention and effort to make the SO happy, ne?


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

ladybird said:


> Living with someone who is LD is a living hell, when you are HD..
> 
> Why would you want to change it. If you are both matched in drives?


I think, after Emerald clarified it, she was saying she wished that they BOTH had higher drives because she would like to be able to connect with him more often that way... but with a lower drive, that just doesn't happen/she doesn't "feel" it. 

But really, Emerald, if you know each others Love Languages, that is THE BEST way to connect, IMO. You are evenly matched, and I would assume you connect well in other ways, right?


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Holland said:


> But is 2-3 x a week LD? I would say that is pretty average.


Average?? In what world??


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Lon said:


> So to accept myself as LD is accepting myself as inferior, or at the least just have an unhealthy approach to sex. It's not that I have a LD, just that I've had too much "success" at repressing it. It broke my heart to realize I convinced my ex W to believe I was LD.


I am sorry to hear that your cultural-religious conditioning gives you such repressive perspectives about sex. But you are not alone. Many of us Asian people are just like that. That's why in many Asian countries, sex is always considered as evil thing..


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

To be clear, 2-3x per week was shagging like bunnies, and only lasted for the honeymoon phase, and her often saying she wanted daily was confusing to me. That was peak frequency... We settled into a once a month routine for a few years and it fell apart from there, the last two years we had sex about 6 times.

If sex were easier and just a matter of me using her instead of my hand, well daily would not have been a problem, but I was stuck in a belief that it had to be special every time and it was a lot of pressure on myself to perform.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Average?? In what world??


That's like the minimum my SO will tolerate before he starts moping. And I mean *moping*.

You don't even have to ask him what's wrong. One week last year, I was just NOT in the mood to be touched, though normally I'm quite compliant. I was going through an unusually bad patch of traumatic flashbacks. 

Seven days without sex and he was walking around like every member of the human race had dropped dead at once and landed on a cart full of puppies.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Personally, I find it hard to grasp how people can get labelled LD or HD unless they've been like that for 10 years plus.

During our marriage we've both been LD, ND and HD. Currently we're having sex more then we've ever had. BUT, is this just due to the circumstances? Right now, things are pretty good, we're empty nesters and there are very few outside stressors. Hence, more time to spend with each other. Naturally, the drive goes up. 

During the last 23 years, there were times when our marriage would be classed as sexless. I would assume so anyways, as we probably had sex 4-5 times a year. Neither of us were particularly upset about it. We had other things to worry about. 

I remember a time when we had to take turns watching a child sleep, just to make sure he made it through the night. Or another time, when I was first starting a business and it required every waking moment of my time. It was that or bankruptcy...My 5 years of heavy drinking. The list can go on and on. There were good times in there too. 

During those times, sex was all over the place. Sometimes plenty, sometimes next to nothing.

So, are we LD, ND or HD? I have no clue, but we're happy even though we're had some seriously sh!tty times in our lives. I'm not whining... "that's life" ...get a hard hat. I do feel, lots of couples throw in the towel way to early. It takes a lot of hard work not to "quit" and empathize with what you SO may be going through.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

T&T said:


> Personally, I find it hard to grasp how people can get labelled LD or HD unless they've been like that for 10 years plus.
> 
> During our marriage we've both been LD, ND and HD. Currently we're having sex more then we've ever had. BUT, is this just due to the circumstances? Right now, things are pretty good, we're empty nesters and there are very few outside stressors. Hence, more time to spend with each other. Naturally, the drive goes up.
> 
> ...


:allhail::allhail:


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Give me a break, LB. Any time a LD person has been talked to in such a manner as you have described, it is because they have the attitude of "Why should I have sex more just because he wants it? I don't want it, so he should be happy I am giving it up at all!" That's the attitude that gets everyone in an uproar. That's the attitude that will kill a marriage.
> 
> Emerald, as jaharthur said, you are married to a LD man...so why would you wish to be HD with a man who is LD? Your drives are matched, so why would you wish to mismatch?? :scratchhead:


I agree.


----------



## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

I think alot of people just think they are hd, thats because there not getting what they consider "satisfying". Then they get with someone who really is hd and find they cant keep up. The hd and ld thing might be flawed in that aspect. It all comes down to compatibility.


----------



## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> This is untrue.
> 
> We read posts where the wife/husband (but usually wife) isn't putting out and we don't have the other person's perspective. We don't have their side of the story.
> 
> ...


Nope, absolutely, 100% incorrect--at least around here.

I've been reading posts in the Sex in Marriage section for about 9 months now. I don't recall posts--OK, maybe a couple of jerks--dumping on LDs *just* for being LDs. The criticism has been for "bait and switch", which I acknowledge might be a bit unfair because I'm not sure it's intentional. More accurately, the criticism is for the failure to see that LD-HD relationships are much less likely to work, for the attitude that an HD partner should just grin and bear it (because nobody "needs" sex anyway), for hoping that children and age will dull the HD spouse's desire, for treating sex as a duty without pleasure, and for not understanding that men to a great extent find intimacy through sex.

Now, I would extend the criticism to an HD spouse who comes here complaining when he/she knew his/her partner was LD before marriage. That's a form of "bait and switch," too. Marriage is not likely to change that innate level of desire. Maybe it happens occasionally, but it would be in the minority of cases.

The time to address the issue candidly and realistically is before getting deep into a relationship, which is why, LB, you've taken such a beating over in that other thread. (To your credit, you've listened with mostly a good attitude--everyone's entitled to a little slip when getting critiqued.)

I see NO reason to have any criticism of an LD-LD relationship, at least on the basis of libido. If both are satisfied, there's nothing to see here folks, move on.

For the record, I always thought I had an average libido at 2-3x per week. Now some are suggesting that's high. Whatever--it matches my wife, so that's what matters.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> This is untrue.
> 
> We read posts where the wife/husband (but usually wife) isn't putting out and we don't have the other person's perspective. We don't have their side of the story.
> 
> ...


I suspect this is confirmation bias (not a swipe at you, just a fairly normal human response). We as people are more likely to remember things that apply to us or confirm what we already believe, while forgetting those that do not.

There have been posters that attack the LS spouse and portray them as a villian. But I think most here are trying to be helpful unless that LS spouse takes the view that it is all the fault and problem of the HD spouse.

As for attacking a poster who is not hear to defend themself, that is not limited to LD spouses. We have to generally accept what a poster is telling us, though it certainly makes sense to test and confirm there is no other information that they are hiding. I don't think it is fair to assume that a poster is lying or hiding things just because it contradicts our view of things.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> Nope, absolutely, 100% incorrect--at least around here.
> 
> I've been reading posts in the Sex in Marriage section for about 9 months now. I don't recall posts--OK, maybe a couple of jerks--dumping on LDs *just* for being LDs. The criticism has been for "bait and switch", which I acknowledge might be a bit unfair because I'm not sure it's intentional. More accurately, the criticism is for the failure to see that LD-HD relationships are much less likely to work, for the attitude that an HD partner should just grin and bear it (because nobody "needs" sex anyway), for hoping that children and age will dull the HD spouse's desire, for treating sex as a duty without pleasure, and for not understanding that men to a great extent find intimacy through sex.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I don't think your libido is high. That sounds fairly normal. I don't have a "low libido", in fact my *libido* is rather high. I have a low desire for sex because the sex is...bad. 

Getting better though.

I just take issue when people say "She isn't' having sex with you so she clearly doesn't love you and is a selfish *****."

When in reality it is so much more complicated, it doesn't just boil down to one person being selfish and or bad.

I don't mind being the resident dart board, hell, once in a blue moon I might be able to help someone out with my minority views


----------



## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

Lordhavok said:


> I think alot of people just think they are hd, thats because there not getting what they consider "satisfying". Then they get with someone who really is hd and find they cant keep up. The hd and ld thing might be flawed in that aspect. It all comes down to compatibility.


I've been wondering about this... what is the definition of Hd/LD? Most people posting on this site seem to be more average instead of HD, but that could just be flawed perception on my part, based on my experience with my partner who is definitely HD. 

My guy's preferred amount of sex is twice a day, but I can't keep up with that on a daily basis (although occasionally I will surprise him with a second go later on).
But even on days we don't have sex, we're still intimate in some way (usually more than once), so if a day goes by without some sort of sexual encounter, he's really, really sick.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> so if a day goes by without some sort of sexual encounter, he's really, really sick.


What do you mean by sick? Physically ill?


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I don't think your libido is high. That sounds fairly normal. I don't have a "low libido", in fact my *libido* is rather high. I have a low desire for sex because the sex is...bad.
> 
> ...


It's not always more complicated than that, though. Sometimes it really is as simple as someone refusing to change their behavior towards sex, which _is_ unloving and selfish. And this can be applied to someone who has unrealistic expectations too, not just LD. 

The person playing the victim can often be the selfish one, and even if we, as individuals, can empathize with their situation, it doesn't mean they are in the right.


----------



## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

T&T said:


> What do you mean by sick? Physically ill?



Yes, like he has the flu or something.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

ladybird said:


> Living with someone who is LD is a living hell, when you are HD..
> 
> Why would you want to change it. If you are both matched in drives?


Good question.

His drive, while LD, is higher than mine therefore I wish I had a higher sexual drive. The sad truth for me, is I have no desire for sex. I have sex & enjoy the intimacy with my husband, enjoy giving him BJ's & HJ's, kissing & other intimate acts but would love to feel the desire to jump his bones that I read about & others so eloquently describe. I can only orgasm with a vibrator & the feeling of the orgasm is a slight tingle with squirting. 

I have been this way my entire life. I experience physical attraction to men but not sexual. I knew it at a very young age & of course thought something was wrong with me. I tried to fix it. I lost good boyfriends. It was very painful for me & them.

To reply to another poster about drives changing depending on circumstances, for me, it has never changed.

With this thread, I was curious to see if others with LD wish they were HD. I understand wishing doesn't make it happen. It is like posing a question about having (insert anything) & wishing for (insert anything).

Now that I think of it, this is a stupid thread. Who wants a low sexual desire? Nature gives us all the body parts to procreate along with the desire to do so. I think nature gets it wrong sometimes. I know it did with me.

Additionally, I completely agree that sexual compatibility is as important in a relationship as any other compatibility.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> It's not always more complicated than that, though. Sometimes it really is as simple as someone refusing to change their behavior towards sex, which _is_ unloving and selfish. And this can be applied to someone who has unrealistic expectations too, not just LD.
> 
> *The person playing the victim can often be the selfish one, and even if we, as individuals, can empathize with their situation, it doesn't mean they are in the right*.


And we, as individuals, with normal IQ, could often spot whom are the real victims here, and whom who just playing victim. 

Great observations as always, Mrs C2W.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Emerald said:


> Now that I think of it, this is a stupid thread. *Who wants a low sexual desire? Nature gives us all the body parts to procreate along with the desire to do so. I think nature gets it wrong sometimes. I know it did with me.*
> 
> Additionally, I completely agree that sexual compatibility is as important in a relationship as any other compatibility.


Agree with this Mrs. Emerald. And I applaud your commitment to give an enjoyable life to your spouse. *standing bow*

I agree that nature gets it wrong sometimes. Many people are born with Dawn's syndrome. Many people are born without legs. Many people are born with spinal defects. Heart defects. Vision defects. You name it.


But I believe in one thing:

Every person deserves to be happy, without destroying the happiness of others.

Being able to overcome natural limitations, shows the strength of character.

God bless you, Mrs. Emerald.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> Yes, like he has the flu or something.


Now I understand what HD is!


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

EntirelyDifferent said:


> Yes, like he has the flu or something.


He likes being theatrical? Are you sure this is not a manipulation?

I'm picturing a commercial right now for condoms. Some dad in supermarket denies his kid a candy who responds with screams while lying on the back waving his arms and legs.  Hilarious.


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Average?? In what world??



I know right... 2-3 times a weeks is not anywhere close in my world. Wish it were


----------



## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Emerald said:


> Good question.
> 
> His drive, while LD, is higher than mine therefore I wish I had a higher sexual drive. The sad truth for me, is I have no desire for sex. I have sex & enjoy the intimacy with my husband, enjoy giving him BJ's & HJ's, kissing & other intimate acts but would love to feel the desire to jump his bones that I read about & others so eloquently describe. I can only orgasm with a vibrator & the feeling of the orgasm is a slight tingle with squirting.
> 
> ...


 This make more sense and I get it now...


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry but if a LD fakes it to give the impression of a high drive until married and then gradually becomes "themselves" as LD they deserve every name they've been called.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

sinnister said:


> Sorry but if a LD fakes it to give the impression of a high drive until married and then gradually becomes "themselves" as LD they deserve every name they've been called.


Half the time, the "bait and switch" is not really the bait and switch.

I have a male friend who *****es he got baited and switched when in reality, he's just gotten gross. 

There are other reasons, very few people do it intentionally though some do.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sinnister said:


> Sorry but if a LD fakes it to give the impression of a high drive until married and then gradually becomes "themselves" as LD they deserve every name they've been called.


Which is why I personally am not opposed to prematital sex in the least (even though it goes against the grain of my moral upbringing)

I don't think in my ex marriage there was bait and switch at all, (and I'm not exactly sure which of us were the switcher) but we reserved a few sexual acts (PIV) for after marriage - what a stupid idea, because then we really didn't have a real clue as to which of us would be the HD and LD.

OTOH, like T&T wrote, sex drive will wax and wane for each spouse over the course of a marriage, it's not fair to use just the beginning years as the only sampling of the sexual dynamic in a marriage.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Lon said:


> Which is why I personally am not opposed to prematital sex in the least (even though it goes against the grain of my moral upbringing)


in a bizarre kind of way.. I agree with you. I respect our religious authorities, but their lives is not mine. Until they walk on my shoes, whatever the preach to me about premarital sex will fall on my bad ears.



> I don't think in my ex marriage there was bait and switch at all, (and I'm not exactly sure which of us were the switcher) but we reserved a few sexual acts (PIV) for after marriage - what a stupid idea, because then we really didn't have a real clue as to which of us would be the HD and LD.


Unpleasant, I could imagine.



> OTOH, like T&T wrote, sex drive will wax and wane for each spouse over the course of a marriage, it's not fair to use just the beginning years as the only sampling of the sexual dynamic in a marriage.


Please elaborate. I had the impressions that, if things are already wrong in the beginning, then chances of improvements in the future are slim.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

LittleBird said:


> Half the time, the "bait and switch" is not really the bait and switch.
> 
> I have a male friend who *****es he got baited and switched when in reality, *he's just gotten gross*.
> 
> There are other reasons, very few people do it intentionally though some do.


LOL hey! I resemble that remark!


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

T&T said:


> Now I understand what HD is!


I half jokingly use the term "ID" for insane drive. When you're in the 1+ per day category that puts you into the ID category.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I don't think your libido is high. That sounds fairly normal. I don't have a "low libido", in fact my *libido* is rather high. I have a low desire for sex because the sex is...bad.
> 
> ...


LB, you are seriously misrepresenting what goes on to support your position. We don't just tar everyone with the same brush; we do consider nuance. No one calls out or berates a woman just because she is not having sex with her husband. We DO:

1) Support marriages and thus point out and advise against behaviors that harm marriages (of which chronic sexual neglect or refusal is a big one).

2) Understand that by the time somebody comes here to seek advice, there has been a long-standing problem and further waiting / patience alone generally is not a good recommendation. Of course, we recommend better ways to act / behave.

3) Ask the dissatisfied / refused spouse to consider what they are doing wrong in the marriage (including being overoptimistic about the success of their current behavior), to accept responsibility for their own happiness, and to understand he or she is capable of getting better treatment.

We do not:

1) Discriminate against women as you imply.

2) Blindly attack refusing spouses. We freely admit that there are good reasons for not having sex (physical separation, illness, extreme stress or family emergencies).

So we do not, as you put it, call a woman a ***** for not putting out. We will call someone out (man or woman) for not working to improve the situation - because there simply is no excuse for not doing so.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> Half the time, the "bait and switch" is not really the bait and switch.
> 
> I have a male friend who *****es he got baited and switched when in reality, he's just gotten gross.
> 
> There are other reasons, very few people do it intentionally though some do.


Wow, talk about making assumptions! What do you mean he's gotten gross? Gained weight, has a tattoo, does not shower daily? Is she the model of feminine sexuality herself? Food for thought.

Also, whether or not it's intentional is not the point. The point is how willing is a spouse to resolve the issue once it's identified. Using a personal example, my ex would swear she had every intention of being a sexual tiger before marriage but the drive she thought she would have never materialized. My thought was that may be the case, but obviously it did not work out that way *and if she was not willing to improve, it might as well have been on purpose. I expected her to dig down deep and push herself to make the necessary improvements.*


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

DTO said:


> We do not:
> 
> 1) Discriminate against women as you imply.
> 
> ...


Many of those who disagrees with Miss LittleBird are women too... Mrs Created2Write, Mrs Lyris and Mrs. Holland came into mind.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> in a bizarre kind of way.. I agree with you. I respect our religious authorities, but their lives is not mine. Until they walk on my shoes, whatever the preach to me about premarital sex will fall on my bad ears.


I am a Christian, yet I agree. There is a Biblical mandate against pre-marital sex. The flip side is we are also commanded to not deprive our spouses so they are not led to temptation (which basically means you have to provide a satisfying sex life). Saying "yeah I married him or her but I'm not into them" or "sex is not what I thought it would be" are not valid reasons for withholding.

The former commandment does not work without the latter. Yet, it seems that Christians commonly take the pre-marital sex piece of it in isolation, without considering the other piece. Shoot, from what I've heard it's hard to find a church that will preach accurately on this topic (although my pastor will do I don't know that firsthand).


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

DTO said:


> I am a Christian, yet I agree. There is a Biblical mandate against pre-marital sex. The flip side is *we are also commanded to not deprive our spouses so they are not led to temptation (which basically means you have to provide a satisfying sex life)*. Saying "yeah I married him or her but I'm not into them" or "sex is not what I thought it would be" are not valid reasons for withholding.
> 
> The former commandment does not work without the latter. Yet, it seems that Christians commonly take the pre-marital sex piece of it in isolation, without considering the other piece. Shoot, from what I've heard it's hard to find a church that will preach accurately on this topic (although my pastor will do I don't know that firsthand).


Wow, thank you for the explanation. We are learning something new everyday.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

T&T said:


> Personally, I find it hard to grasp how people can get labelled LD or HD unless they've been like that for 10 years plus.
> 
> During our marriage we've both been LD, ND and HD. Currently we're having sex more then we've ever had. BUT, is this just due to the circumstances? Right now, things are pretty good, we're empty nesters and there are very few outside stressors. Hence, more time to spend with each other. Naturally, the drive goes up.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right that the important thing is compatibility with your partner.

But, I don't think you need to have static sexual frequency for an extended period of time to say whether you are LD, HD, or somewhere in between. IMO, sexual frequency is the product of both internal drive and circumstances. Everybody's frequency will adjust to what's going on in their lives.

Honestly, I would not label you as HD. It seems like there are a wide variety of factors that drop your drive to quite a low level. I have had financial issues and a sick child (lost a three-year battle against cancer) so I understand the pressures you faced.

I would classify someone as HD who still found time to have sex despite those issues. And, there's generally always time to have good sex without letting the critical issues slide if it's a high enough priorty. It only takes an hour a week to do, which is always manageable unless physically separated or facing a true immediate crisis (i.e. really sick or hospitalized relative).

Let's look at your business development period, for instance. I get that starting a business is very difficult, and even more so when you need it to work to stay afloat. Still, I don't think you did nothing but eat, bathe, sleep, and work 7 days a week for months or years on end. There must have been down times when you just hung out and watched the news, took a stroll during lunch, or whatever. People who made sex a priority during those scarce free moments would have what I consider an HD.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

This HD LD ND concept is also very new to me. I considered myself an "extraordinary virile" when I was younger. Then I realized that my 3x-4x sex per week is not considered "extraordinary", in fact it was normal considering I was young and leading a rather wild life.

Then I quit my wild life, getting a steady job, and get married. My wife and I lives in different cities. We had sex about 3x per _month_, which I considered as "Normal" for married couple.

But then I came to TAM, and I realized that there are people who make love way above my frequency. And there are those poor people who actually want sex, but are deprived sex by their spouses, leading to a sexless life.

LD, HD, ND, compared to whom? I think that's the key 

Compared to those poor saps who have sex once or twice per year, I am normal.

Compared to those amorous couples who have sex 4x-5x weekly, I am LD..


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

DTO said:


> You are absolutely right that the important thing is compatibility with your partner.
> 
> But, I don't think you need to have static sexual frequency for an extended period of time to say whether you are LD, HD, or somewhere in between. IMO, sexual frequency is the product of both internal drive and circumstances. Everybody's frequency will adjust to what's going on in their lives.
> 
> ...


Thanks DTO,

I agree that neither of us are HD. Outside pressures have always put a damper on both of our sex lives. It seems "normal" for us but recently had a talk about how to try and stop this from happening, now that we're enjoying a sexual peek.

Both of us came up with a big fat *"zero"* We've always been that way. We are entering a new phase in life where we will be looking after elderly parents. It's just begun. Neither of us want to lose what we have recently discovered...

I'm pretty damn good at shutting off the business when I walk through the door. It took years of practice, but other issues are another matter for both of us.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

People who desire sex will always make time for it.

Nobody is THAT busy. I'm sure POTUS & FLOTUS are still getting it on


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Emerald said:


> People who desire sex will always make time for it.


Agreed. Until I'm a walking zombie sleep will take a 2nd place. I've only been too tired maybe 5 times in my life.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Emerald said:


> People who desire sex will always make time for it.
> 
> Nobody is THAT busy. I'm sure POTUS & FLOTUS are still getting it on


I disagree with this - sex drive/libido isn't just one circuit in the brain that is either set to "high" or "low". And as for me I always "desire" sex, constantly, but I wa unable to make time for it.

John asked me to elaborate on how it can wax/wane, well I have all kinds of responsibilties and needs compteting for my attention and energy, but I have limited time and energy to give, and when I choose to focus on one more it means focussing less on another. At the beginning of a relationship I focus more on sex, and other things less - such as personal hobbies, chores around the house, time with my buddies, mental energy for my job, as I would expect most people do (though I could be way off on this base assumption). And at some point for me those other responsibities become a priority and it means not being able to think of, plan or have the time and energy for sex. I think in a healthy person managing all these aspects is more integral, and feed off each other to provide energy, but from what I can tell most of the population isn't always healthy all the time.

A truly LD person may just not have sexual needs, in which case less time/energy is needed for sex, however they too are managing all the responsibilities concurrently, but others may just be romantics that tend to prefer to focus more on one thing at a time - for someone like myself I am realizing that I will appear as an HD at the beginning but will come to appear as a LD in times of hardship - and it has more to do than just "stress" it has to do with how I have come to deal with life's responsibilities.

I can, and have, gone extended periods with no sex and been fine with it, but I have struggled to understand if this makes me LD or not. And there have also been times when I'm getting it every day and still want more, but I never considered it HD because I knew at some point I'd be going long periods without.

I think the LD/HD labels are pretty much useless, except in which partner is the highER drive and which is the lowER drive in the relationship when it has evened out and each has learned how the other balances responsibilities.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Lon, thank you for your explanation. I agree, I feel the same way, I can't think of sex if there are other things that bothering me, and that mostly related to work and responsibilities 

In fact, I went a year without sex after my son was born, and I didn't event _think_ of sex during that year, until my wife yelled at me.

I guess that makes me LD


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Lon said:


> I disagree with this - sex drive/libido isn't just one circuit in the brain that is either set to "high" or "low". And as for me I always "desire" sex, constantly, but I wa unable to make time for it.
> 
> John asked me to elaborate on how it can wax/wane, well I have all kinds of responsibilties and needs compteting for my attention and energy, but I have limited time and energy to give, and when I choose to focus on one more it means focussing less on another. At the beginning of a relationship I focus more on sex, and other things less - such as personal hobbies, chores around the house, time with my buddies, mental energy for my job, as I would expect most people do (though I could be way off on this base assumption). And at some point for me those other responsibities become a priority and it means not being able to think of, plan or have the time and energy for sex. I think in a healthy person managing all these aspects is more integral, and feed off each other to provide energy, but from what I can tell most of the population isn't always healthy all the time.
> 
> ...


^^^That pretty much sums up my wife and I. Thanks for posting, Lon!


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Emerald said:


> People who desire sex will always make time for it.
> 
> Nobody is THAT busy. I'm sure POTUS & FLOTUS are still getting it on


Nobody is advocating chronic withholding of sex because that is mean.

It's a balancing act though because I am a firm believer that nobody should ever feel like they have to have sex or face the negative consequences.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

DTO said:


> Wow, talk about making assumptions! What do you mean he's gotten gross? Gained weight, has a tattoo, does not shower daily? Is she the model of feminine sexuality herself? Food for thought.
> 
> Also, whether or not it's intentional is not the point. The point is how willing is a spouse to resolve the issue once it's identified. Using a personal example, my ex would swear she had every intention of being a sexual tiger before marriage but the drive she thought she would have never materialized. My thought was that may be the case, but obviously it did not work out that way *and if she was not willing to improve, it might as well have been on purpose. I expected her to dig down deep and push herself to make the necessary improvements.*


He gained 20 pounds. She's my cousin/godmother and she's no dumb bimbo either, she's a judge. And she is not a "man hater" as you seem to think I am. But seriously, the man has totally let himself go and still expects her to be tearing his clothes off. 

If I gained 20 pounds and my SO refused to touch me, I'd go to a gym.

Not *****. She has sex with him once or twice a month through gritted teeth. She's the main person I talk to about sexual stuff, my parents are a no no.

I'm thinking of putting that in my marriage contract. "I am not obligated to sleep with you if you become physically repulsive." 

IMO that is not the norm but it is something to be considered.

Dig down and push herself? This is sex we're talking about, not the treadmill. 

Not that easy.

I agree effort should be made but honestly, I'm really getting sick of hearing "these people are just selfish". It's just not that easy. 

They aren't bad people it's just a matter of incompatibility. They probably think YOU'RE selfish for pestering them about the next time you can do the nasty. 

It's all a matter of compatibility.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

DTO said:


> LB, you are seriously misrepresenting what goes on to support your position. We don't just tar everyone with the same brush; we do consider nuance. No one calls out or berates a woman just because she is not having sex with her husband. We DO:
> 
> 1) Support marriages and thus point out and advise against behaviors that harm marriages (of which chronic sexual neglect or refusal is a big one).
> 
> ...


You're reading a lot more into my post than what I actually wrote, mate. 

I tend to agree with most of that.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

LittleBird said:


> He gained 20 pounds.


While I agree on your points, 20 pounds is not that much to transform attractive to repulsive...


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> While I agree on your points, 20 pounds is not that much to transform attractive to repulsive...


Well, he was sort of a bigger man to begin with (but he wasn't fat, just big) but now he literally looks as if he could be pregnant. He's also just gotten generally sloppy. When they were dating, he worked out, blah blah. They don't have any kids and she works more than he does so there aren't a ton of excuses. 

He also doesn't seem to care but still EXPECTS her to keep servicing him.

Rude, if you ask me. 

If you expect sex you should also expect to keep yourself presentable.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: LD Folks - Do you wish you were HD?*



LittleBird said:


> He gained 20 pounds. She's my cousin/godmother and she's no dumb bimbo either, she's a judge. And she is not a "man hater" as you seem to think I am. But seriously, the man has totally let himself go and still expects her to be tearing his clothes off.
> 
> If I gained 20 pounds and my SO refused to touch me, I'd go to a gym.
> 
> ...


20 lbs is that detrimental? And also, the point I was making above is that compatibility is not all that reliable in the long term. Yes it is required to start a relationship, but it cannot be used years later as an excuse to explain away not being happy with sex life in marriage... Long term compatibility doesn't just happen, it is crafted from both ends.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> Nobody is advocating chronic withholding of sex because that is mean.
> 
> It's a balancing act though because I am a firm believer that nobody should ever feel like they have to have sex or face the negative consequences.


This is irrational, though, in the context of committed, sexually exclusive relationships. That's like saying, "Nobody should feel they have to talk to their spouse or face the negative consequences". If you don't want the responsibility of having sex, don't be in a relationship. But don't get into a committed relationship and expect the other person to be sexually faithful if you(general you...not you specifically) aren't willing to be sexual with them. There are _always_ consequences for our actions. Just because we don't personally want that to be so doesn't change that it is so.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> But don't get into a committed relationship and expect the other person to be sexually faithful if you(general you...not you specifically) aren't willing to be sexual with them.


Actually, in a committed relationship you should expect faithfulness at all times. The right choice is whether to stay or leave such relationship.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Lon said:


> 20 lbs is that detrimental? And also, the point I was making above is that compatibility is not all that reliable in the long term. Yes it is required to start a relationship, but it cannot be used years later as an excuse to explain away not being happy with sex life in marriage... Long term compatibility doesn't just happen, it is crafted from both ends.


I don't actually know the exact number (2o lbs is a guess on my part) she simply told me he gained weight and looking at him it's obvious. He really does look bad but it isn't just the weight.

Obviously, love is more than skin deep.

But sex and lust....nah, that's pretty shallow.

Nobody signed up for an attractive husband/wife and expected to end up with....not. 

And you're right about the compatibility but no one should have to change who they are just to be with someone else (this is if they don't want to or don't see a reason to)

In that case I think it's best there are 6 billion people on this Earth. God gave us options for a reason. 

I can't speak to every situation, obviously.

My fiancé very graciously asked me (jokingly) when I started to gain weight to come to the gym with him. I took the hint.

Then again, I see many out of shape people who seem to still have a sex life so...preference, I guess.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> This is irrational, though, in the context of committed, sexually exclusive relationships. That's like saying, "Nobody should feel they have to talk to their spouse or face the negative consequences". If you don't want the responsibility of having sex, don't be in a relationship. But don't get into a committed relationship and expect the other person to be sexually faithful if you(general you...not you specifically) aren't willing to be sexual with them. There are _always_ consequences for our actions. Just because we don't personally want that to be so doesn't change that it is so.


With this mentality, life is simply a giant exercise in walking under a guillotine and waiting for it to fall.

The words, "duty" "responsibility" "must" are hard for to me to relate to sex. Perhaps that is just a result of my history and I am alone on that.

I do agree it is a reasonable expectation. 

But the words "Sex" and "Responsibility" in the same sentence bother me.

DISCLAIMER: before you all bash me to hell no I'm not planning on withholding sex from my SO, these are just some opinions I'm trying to sort through. After all, I'm 20...what do I know?


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

LittleBird said:


> But sex and lust....nah, that's pretty shallow.


Not for everyone. She could easily gain 20-30 pounds and it wouldn't matter to me. I desire her when she wakes with a breath that could kill or during her period.  There are many more examples but I'm already too graphic I suppose.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> Not for everyone. She could easily gain 20-30 pounds and it wouldn't matter to me. I desire her when she wakes with a breath that could kill or during her period.  There are many more examples but I'm already too graphic I suppose.


Good for you. :smthumbup:

IMO no one is going to be smoking hot forever. 

But I think basic consideration for yourself IS basic consideration for your spouse. 

Hopefully she doesn't slouch around unshaven all the time smelling like cheese. :rofl:

Doesn't sound like it.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

My wife and I have gone through all three phases

1. Desires roughly equal

2. Her desire at nearly zero

3. Her desire absolutely through the roof (Side effect of menopause)​

I don't understand what the big deal is for the side with lesser desire, but I suppose it's different somehow for a woman


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

T&T said:


> Hi Emerald,
> 
> I've worked some pretty heavy hours in my time. The longest shift being 36 hours straight. The longest week was 107 hours. *Heavy* hours were the norm in the summer months. During those times a sh!t, shave and shower were of the highest importance! lol A meal too. Spending every spare moment with my wife and 4 kids before going off to work again. Fitting in a quicky would have just sucked more energy out of me. :sleeping: :rofl:


If you ever get a divorce (knock on wood) look me up okay?


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> If you ever get a divorce (knock on wood) look me up okay?


LB, I'm not supermodel material. lol


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

T&T said:


> LB, I'm not supermodel material. lol


And I don't have a gag reflex. 

Your point is?



Unless you count the Nordstrom's Catalog as "Supermodel"....I'm no supermodel.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> And I don't have a gag reflex.
> 
> Your point is?
> 
> ...


I was just pulling your leg.


----------



## LittleBird (Jan 12, 2013)

T&T said:


> I was just pulling your leg.


LB has a crush on you....uppy:uppy::flowerkitty::flowerkitty:

I'm also probably a toddler to you....

But a girl can dream, right?


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

LittleBird said:


> LB has a crush on you....uppy:uppy::flowerkitty::flowerkitty:
> 
> *I'm also probably a toddler to you....*
> 
> But a girl can dream, right?


LOL My youngest daughter is 24 years old, which makes me an old fart. Nah, not quite yet!! :smthumbup:

There's still lots of guys out there with family values and a work ethic. I just think they're a lot harder to find these days. I'm lucky to find 1 or 2 in 100 that actually wants to put in a hard days work and not just show up for a cheque. Sad but true...


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

TheStranger said:


> Actually, in a committed relationship you should expect faithfulness at all times. The right choice is whether to stay or leave such relationship.


Granted, this wording is better and resembles what I meant more accurately. There are never reasons to cheat. But there are reasons for a relationship to end, and sexual incompatibility is definitely one of them.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

LittleBird said:


> With this mentality, life is simply a giant exercise in walking under a guillotine and waiting for it to fall.


Life is about choices. I don't think a single day goes by in which we aren't faced with choices, many of them blatant, and many of them subtle. But they're there. And there are consequences to every choice we make, many of them positive, many of them negative. My husband and I are going through some consequences right now. We rushed into wedded bliss, despite the fact that neither of us had jobs and we barely had a place to live. Now, we're both wanting to do things, get into careers, that will enable us to financially afford a family, a house, and retirement. 

We wanted to have kids within the year. Now we're going to have to wait around five more years. My husband wants to go to college and get a bachelors into a field of the medical industry. The outcome will be a great salary as soon as he gets the job. The downfall is that we can't afford, even if I were working full time, to send him to school AND have kids. 

So, even though us getting married was a good thing, we're suffering through some of the consequences. That doesn't mean the consequences aren't sometimes worth it in the end. He and I are together, and we are happy, but our lives would have been a thousand times easier if we had taken more time to just date and get some careers sorted out first. 



> The words, "duty" "responsibility" "must" are hard for to me to relate to sex. Perhaps that is just a result of my history and I am alone on that.


I should clarify, because I really don't think that having sex should feel that way. For me, "duty sex" _hasn't_ ever felt like a duty. I've never felt like some martyr, doomed to live a life of duty and responsibility, even when I had sex and wasn't in the mood. But I have had an immensely satisfying lover, and that can go a long way in that regard, I think. But, I also think that, when two people are more sexually compatible, the negative feelings surrounding "duty" sex, or having sex when not in the mood, are much less extreme.



> I do agree it is a reasonable expectation.
> 
> But the words "Sex" and "Responsibility" in the same sentence bother me.


I can't relate to those feelings because, even when I've had sex when I wasn't in the mood, I've never felt resentment or anger, and there's never been a lack of physical pleasure. Obviously the times when I AM horny are much more satisfying, but even the worst sex we had was still fulfilling. 



> DISCLAIMER: before you all bash me to hell no I'm not planning on withholding sex from my SO, these are just some opinions I'm trying to sort through. After all, I'm 20...what do I know?


I wasn't going to bash you, and I'm still not.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> I should clarify, because I really don't think that having sex should feel that way. For me, "duty sex" _hasn't_ ever felt like a duty. I've never felt like some martyr, doomed to live a life of duty and responsibility, even when I had sex and wasn't in the mood. But I have had an immensely satisfying lover, and that can go a long way in that regard, I think. But, I also think that, when two people are more sexually compatible, the negative feelings surrounding "duty" sex, or having sex when not in the mood, are much less extreme...snip...I can't relate to those feelings because, *even when I've had sex when I wasn't in the mood, I've never felt resentment or anger, and there's never been a lack of physical pleasure. Obviously the times when I AM horny are much more satisfying, but even the worst sex we had was still fulfilling*..


:smthumbup::iagree:

As usual, Mrs. C2W's eloquence never ceases to amaze me.

If there are _true_ mutual love and respect, and mutual attraction in a marriage, then there are no such things as "duty sex", because both spouses will have hots for each others always. Maybe one partner is a bit LD-ish, but even the LD partner will enjoy the sex due to _mutual love, mutual respect and mutual attraction_.. and the enjoyment is not only in the heart but also physically. "Even the worst sex we had was still fullfilling" is the keyword here.

People should really get in touch with their own inner feelings. How do you really feel towards your partner? You may love him/her but don't respect him/her. Maybe you're physically attracted to him/her but don't love and don't respect him/her. Maybe you're actually not attracted to members of opposite sex, but you married him/her anyway because you love and respect him/her. 

If one partner starting to feel less interested in sex, feels like "giving duty sex", then it must be one of these factors : love fading, respect fading and/or lessening attraction. Or hormonal imbalance.

When any of these three requirements (love, respect, attraction) is missing or lessening in your marriage, then one day you'd feel an urge to come to TAM and complaining: "heelp, I still love my wife/husband but am not interested in having sex with her/him anymore" OR "I want sex maybe only once a month, wife/husband wants it several times a week, I gave her/him sex out of duty, but I feels like my body is violated.." OR "sex in a marriage is not a right, it's not a need, I don't have to bonk her/him to prove that am a good spouse.." OR "so what is I don't give him/her sex as often as he/she likes? marriage is more than sex, I am still a good spouse in all other aspects of the marriage.."


----------



## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Re: LD Folks - Do you wish you were HD?*



Maricha75 said:


> Give me a break, LB. Any time a LD person has been talked to in such a manner as you have described, it is because they have the attitude of "Why should I have sex more just because he wants it? I don't want it, so he should be happy I am giving it up at all!" That's the attitude that gets everyone in an uproar. That's the attitude that will kill a marriage.
> 
> , as jaharthur said, you are married to a LD man...so why would you wish to be HD with a man who is LD? Your drives are matched, so why would you wish to mismatch?? :scratchhead:


I used to get worked up about these people to until I learned from personal experience that it's not so much a matter of them being unfeeling or selfish as it is that LD folks just really don't understand how important the sex is to us. From my own experience once she finally, years later, understood she started making much more of an effort.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Lon, thank you for your explanation. I agree, I feel the same way, I can't think of sex if there are other things that bothering me, and that mostly related to work and responsibilities


Interesting, that's never happened to me. I've never had stress / distractions dull my drive. 

The only thing that has is severe exhaustion (90 hours at work in one week) or severe illness. Never from a cold, only food poisoning and a bad flu has dampened it for a day or two.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If I end up having the same drive my wife does, I think we'll all starve and end up homeless


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> Not for everyone. She could easily gain 20-30 pounds and it wouldn't matter to me. I desire her when she wakes with a breath that could kill or during her period.  There are many more examples but I'm already too graphic I suppose.


Ok, how about 165lbs ... when she was about that much to start with?


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Interesting, that's never happened to me. I've never had stress / distractions dull my drive.
> 
> The only thing that has is severe exhaustion (90 hours at work in one week) or severe illness. Never from a cold, only food poisoning and a bad flu has dampened it for a day or two.


Good for you :smthumbup: I am not that lucky. The connection between my balls and my brains are too strong. If my brains think that it needs full energy and concentration to solve a problem, it will divert a large percentage of energy to itself, leaving my balls with no choice but to just hang in its pouch, doing nothing


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok, how about 165lbs ... when she was about that much to start with?


165lbs on top of 165lbs? Even I have limits.

But this is a radical change which never comes alone. If a wife gains that much weight during the marriage she isn't the person you married anymore.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

T&T said:


> There's still lots of guys out there with family values and a work ethic. I just think they're a lot harder to find these days. I'm lucky to find 1 or 2 in 100 that actually wants to put in a hard days work and not just show up for a cheque. Sad but true...


Well, if that's true, that and my parenting skills should make me a superstar once I actually decide to get back to the dating scene. Or, at least once I hit the gym!

Seriously though, I been lucky enough to work with dedicated professionals who tend to be diligent. But, yeah I've had those environments too. And, I can see why a woman might see a bunch of Gen X-ers running about just getting by with no direction and complain about a lack of decent guys.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Good for you :smthumbup: I am not that lucky. The connection between my balls and my brains are too strong. If my brains think that it needs full energy and concentration to solve a problem, it will divert a large percentage of energy to itself, leaving my balls with no choice but to just hang in its pouch, doing nothing


This goes right back to the argument that is being LD in itself bad? I say no. 

The problem is only if it creates one in your marriage because of a mismatch. If you and your wife were matched in that regard, then there would be no reason to feel bad about it.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

T&T said:


> There's still lots of guys out there with family values and a work ethic. I just think they're a lot harder to find these days. I'm lucky to find 1 or 2 in 100 that actually wants to put in a hard days work and not just show up for a cheque. Sad but true...


I noticed that the ones that work hard ALL are married or in a long term relationship.

People will makes jokes about how bad engineers are in relating to marriage. I just respond that I don't know ANY single engineers, even among the young guys. That's because there is a larger supply of women who seek out a stable, responsible guy than there supply of guys who fill that need today.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Good for you :smthumbup: I am not that lucky. The connection between my balls and my brains are too strong. If my brains think that it needs full energy and concentration to solve a problem, it will divert a large percentage of energy to itself, *leaving my balls with no choice but to just hang in its pouch, doing nothing*


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Of course I do.
> 
> I would LOVE to experience a high sexual desire. I would LOVE to be hot & horny for my husband daily.
> 
> ...


Emerald I think you're the very model of how an LD person should conduct their lives. You're sensitive to the mindset, and the conflicts, inherent to LD/HD combos, and in your own life you eventually married a man of similar drive. I really believe that is the wisest outcome possible.

And I know you certainly have helped raise my level of understanding regarding the LD/ND perspective.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

DTO said:


> Wrong LB,
> 
> We have indeed had ladies (but never a man, AFAIK)


Mr. Vanilla.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Mr. Vanilla.


I don't think his drive was all that low, he just had no interest in doing anything other than PIV.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes I wish I knew what is was like to feel a strong desire for sex without having to work at it. I get a little idea about once a month. It is so puny that I don't think it compares to what a HD person feels. 

I would not want to be with a partner who did not want to have sex.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Yes I wish I knew what is was like to feel a strong desire for sex without having to work at it.


If I have a strong urge it literally feels like a itch that needs to be scratched badly to go away. I'm sure you know how an itch can be irritating when left alone untouched. It can destroy any attempt of concentration and annoys to no end. 

When I finally get to 'scratch' my itch it feels just like heaven. 

I just recalled an episode of Seinfeld where Kramer dated a girl just because she knew how to scratch his back.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> This goes right back to the argument that is being LD in itself bad? I say no.
> 
> The problem is only if it creates one in your marriage because of a mismatch. If you and your wife were matched in that regard, then there would be no reason to feel bad about it.


Well, after my son was born, my wife and I didn't do bonking for a year. I was in "Papa" mode, I was totally so not thinking about sex and so much into showing off to my clan and my people that I have a son and I love him. I assumed my wife were in "Mamma" mode, so yea, I thought she also was not thinking about bonking. But after about a year, my wife actually yelled at me, asking me do I find her unattractive after giving birth to my son. That snapped me out of my "Papa" mode, and we're back to monthly bonking..

I don't really know for sure whether we have matching drive or not, she almost never complained. The incident I described above was the only time she complained..


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Well, after my son was born, my wife and I didn't do bonking for a year. I was in "Papa" mode, I was totally so not thinking about sex and so much into showing off to my clan and my people that I have a son and I love him. I assumed my wife were in "Mamma" mode, so yea, I thought she also was not thinking about bonking. But after about a year, my wife actually yelled at me, asking me do I find her unattractive after giving birth to my son. That snapped me out of my "Papa" mode, and we're back to monthly bonking..
> 
> I don't really know for sure whether we have matching drive or not, she almost never complained. The incident I described above was the only time she complained..


If "monthly" means only once, or twice a month, and you were fine going a year without, and before she said anything, it seems like both of you are pretty LD.

And that's a good thing. Looks like you both found a great match in this area.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

jaquen said:


> If "monthly" means only once, or twice a month, and you were fine going a year without, and before she said anything, it seems like both of you are pretty LD.
> 
> And that's a good thing. Looks like you both found a great match in this area.


Yea, maybe you're right. Still, I am yet to fully comprehend the concept of LD, HD and ND thing. As I have said on other thread, I thought I was a Casanova, because I used to have a quite wild life. Back then I used to have many girlfriends, and my sex life was quite active, or so I thought. I bonked my GFs about 3 to 4 times a week at my wildest. Yea, I thought I was Casanova. Even after I got married, I bonked my wife regularly, like 3 times a month when I am at her city. I still thought I am high-libido (no longer a Casanova though).

Then I came to this forum and read about people who bonked their spouses/gfs/bfs 5 times a week, or some even daily. Then I realized that I was not a Casanova, just average, and now I am considered low-libido when compared to those super high-libido people. Oh well, to each their own 

I second the opinions of Mr. Jaquen and Mr. Gray about being compatible with our spouses is what matters.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*LD Folks - Do you wish you were HD? *


Yeah. 

Mini-Me just doesn't want to get up in the morning anymore.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> *LD Folks - Do you wish you were HD? *
> 
> 
> Yeah.
> ...


Sorry to hear that. As we're getting older, surely there are certain parts of us that starts to become uncooperative. Have you checked with your doctor? Maybe you just need to have some medicine and everything will be back to normal.


----------



## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like all this hd and ld stuff is just going back and forth. Looks to me, and in my experience with first wife, that the ld partner wants the hd (or normal drive) partner to just be happy with what they offer. I dont think you can train a hd or nd partner to not want sex.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Then I came to this forum and read about people who bonked their spouses/gfs/bfs 5 times a week, or some even daily.


I'm doubtful that you'd believe me if I told you what we were like pre-kid.

I'm 41 now and we're 1-2 times a day.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I'm doubtful that you'd believe me if I told you what we were like pre-kid.
> 
> I'm 41 now and we're 1-2 times a day.


:smthumbup:

These days I believe it when people are saying this  

I have a personal friend who does it daily with her hubby, and this husband isn't even a great guy, but she loves him very much and are totally sexually attracted to him, so any bad habits that this guy has, is a non-issue to her.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> I'm doubtful that you'd believe me if I told you what we were like pre-kid.
> 
> I'm 41 now and we're 1-2 times a day.


I hate you.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I hate you.


Bandit, you're a great guy. I sure hope you find somebody who'll do that for you!


----------

