# NPD



## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

I been recently told by my wife that i have Narcissist Personality Disorder, which makes me feel like a monster. They say there is no cure and i am destined to ruin my relationship. I don't want to lose her, she is my everything. she has recently seperated from me, we have 2 kids and 12 years of being together. i have seeked counseling advice on this matter from two counselors and both said that even though sometimes i act selfish this does not mean i have a personality disorder. that there are very extensive test to determine any personality disorder especially NPD. The way it was explained to me was that everyone has narcissist behavior, for example a life or death situation our self preservation instinct kicks on. someone who has NPD acts like that all the time 24/7. I have been in the NAVY for 11 years and they also said that someone who has NPD or is paranoid would not make it in the military, especially in the job i do as a firefighter. i do not want to discredit my wife, hence i need advice or help. how can i prove to her that i do not have personality disorders? how do i prove that i want to be selfless when it comes to her and my kids? i miss her so much... it pains me to know that i am the one who drove her away... please someone help... how can i be less self centered? i have been going to church and volunteering at church, i would do anything to win my wife and kids back...


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## GoDucks (May 19, 2010)

Glorify her. Publicly. Thank her. Commend her. Compliment her. When you're at church, talk about her. How great she is. How great she has made your life. Talk about wonderful her. Beautiful her. You are lucky because you had her.

[Let me be clear: this is not "I hope she comes back, so I can be better." This is closer to "I just hope she's happy. She is the most amazing woman I have ever known. I really miss her."]

If she is worried that you have NPD, and you are certain that you don't, make an effort to prove you are right. 

Take no credit. Do not glorify you. If you can say this toward others in your circle, at some point, it will circle back to her. Especially if you mean it. If you are just saying "what you need to say", then the wrong message will get back to her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Louie,
Your wife isn’t qualified to call you a narcissist. She may just mean that she sees you as “selfish”. And even that may be a projection in that she sees herself as selfish and instead of accepting it as her bad behaviour is projecting that on to you.

You’ve seen two counsellors, people with NPD just don’t do that, or at least it’s exceedingly rare because they don’t see anything wrong with themselves.

She may well be avoiding telling you the real "selfish" reason why she left in that it’s to do more with her than with you.

Bob


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

louie_a_lopez said:


> how can i prove to her that i do not have personality disorders?


This is the wrong attitude.



louie_a_lopez said:


> i do not want to discredit my wife, hence i need advice or help.
> 
> how do i prove that i want to be selfless when it comes to her and my kids?


This is the right attitude.

You are listening to the wrong people. The advice from the counselors, this member AFEH, and others has you thinking the wrong way. While it is true your wife is not qualified to diagnose you, it is not helpful for anyone to tell you she made the wrong diagnosis. And it definitely is not helpful to tell you she is the problem and blaming it on you. The fact is, she is telling you that you mistreat her. She is telling you that you have not listened to her all these years. She is telling you that she is sick and tired of the way you treat her. None of this is her imagination. In her desperate effort to understand why you treat her so very badly, she has attempted to find out what the problem is. She probably googled and found NPD and then read the symptoms to find that you satisfy many of those behavioral indicators. Even though it might not be the perfect diagnosis, it is not her imagination to make the correlations between your behavior and those undesirable clinical symptoms.

Because of the advice you have received, and because those people are who you are listening to, you are as usual ignoring your wife and not listening to her. This is just one example of narcissistic behavior. You have opted to preserve your identity and your own idea of the person you think yourself to be instead of listening to your wife. As a result, you are not being honest with yourself, you are not being honest with your wife, and you are not being honest with us here on this board. You are in denial. Even though you cannot possibly recall every single occurrence, you very well know the many occasions that you were unkind, selfish, superior, mean, insulting, disrespectful, full of yourself, demeaning, belittling, and condescending to your wife. You know full well. I have no idea why you spent all those years being so mean to your wife. I have no idea why she meant so little to you that you had to put her down all the time. I have no idea, if you say now that you love her, why you did not love her over the past 12 years. I have no idea, if she is your everything now as you say, why you spent the past 12 years showing her she meant nothing to you.

You can be honest with yourself, and you can be honest with your wife. Otherwise, you will never get her back. She will very much appreciate your full confession that you know you trampled all over her and her feelings. Read "]this gentleman's letter and see what a full confession is like. Write a letter of your own to your wife. She might not come back right away. She might insist on marriage counseling first. But a letter like that will surely melt her heart and help you break down her barriers. You have a LOT of work to do if you truly want your family back. A full confession is a great start. If you honestly mean that you don't want to be selfish anymore, then stop being selfish. Be honest with yourself and be honest with your wife and write that confession. Then start marriage counseling.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

_i'll try to be short/concise(no guarrantees.....:lol

u seem to be very guilty in yer writings, perspectives and thus 
approaches in whether or not u'll "win" yer W back. this is not a
balanced mindset, nor position to approach reconcilation in most
cases i'd say. 
oh yes, some may be lucky w/ this mindset/approach(say 20% max?)
but the majority will suffer 4 it. 

it may be as u wrote, where u r TOTALLY at fault here. then again, u may not but are not balanced enough to see that u r not, and idolize yer W. (women love to manipulate this)

as for her calling u NPD.....well, i'd ask to see her license.
u wrote pro says yer not. and gee, w/ yer guilt, u lean 
towards W's understanding. go fig. 
it may be as bob wrote above, and opposite may be just as "true."

i think balance is in order here. its not good to be beta "kiss
butt" male here, nor alpha "i'll do whatever i want" male either.

a question of balance. yer call. 
read around the forum as theres been many b4 u, and many to come after u,
w/ the same story, and looking at it the same & diff than u.

read the results, what few there are.
u'd be the wiser for it(maybe?)
_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

The point is not whether or not you have NPD. The point is that you have enough of those characteristics that your wife thinks you do. The very fact that you quibble about whether you "really" have it or not suggests you have a very difficult time seeing fault in your own behavior. 

You express little remorse about whatever led your wife to think you have NPD. You want to win her back b/c YOU do not want to be without her. It is still all about you--losing her is bad for you, hence you panic. 

Right now, you are the one here. Someone said that a person with NPD wouldn't go to a therapist b/c they would not think they had a problem. I suspect they might go and represent everything from their narcissistic p.o.v. which would make it very, very difficult for a therapist to make a good diagnosis absent input from other family members and co-workers. Narcissists have a very high "self-preservation" radar, so fooling nearly everyone is part of the "job." Anyone who has to live with you, however, probably sees the other side of the story. 

Susan was rough but on target. The more you resist seeing yourself as very selfish, the less likely you will be able to change anything. The more you label your wife as the problem, the more narcissistic you are behaving. Yes, she *could* be the problem--and you cannot change her, you can only change YOU. The reality is, if even one of you is too selfish, the marriage will fail. If both of you are healthy enough to reach a mutually satisfying resolution, the marriage may survive. 

Why don't you give some examples of things your wife points to as problematic about your behavior? Just what you did/didn't do--no commentary or explanation. Make a list. Be objective. Just list things you did/didn't do that upset her (we don't need to know why, just the behaviors). Maybe taking a cold hard look at your behaviors will help you figure out when you are crossing a line.


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

thank you all for the advice, i respect all who took the time to help someone in need. to be honest i didn't want to go to counseling... i was told by my wife that i needed it... so i went, she is already seeing a counselor and my counselor thought it would be a good idea to have a non bias counselor for our marriage... my wife sent me an online questionair about personality disorders i took it and she told me to share the results with my counselors... i know i am selfish, i am not denying that.. my counselors where the one's that told me that there are very extensive test that i would have to go through in order for them to truely deem me with NPD... i am in the NAVY and a firefighter they said looking at my record there is no way i could have NPD, BORDERLINE, or PARANOID disorder.. I just felt like a monster after reading what people with NPD have... they lie, cheat, and are all about self preservation... so i was feeling hopeless, seeing as there is no way to prove that i am just selfish and immature sometimes instead of having a personality disorder... thank you susan for your letter, i wish i could write that letter and send it to her... i am respecting her wishes of not contacting her in anyway... we are seperated right now, which is killing me i love this woman with all my heart, i know i have miss treated her and betrayed her trust... we have two wonderful kids, and a brand new house full of dogs that i love.. i am deploying soon for 8 months and i just don't want to lose her or my family, i am in panic mode just due to time, i have 1 month before i deploy... i want marriage counseling i went and found a good counselor, but my wife said she is not ready... i just feel helpless... i just would like to get things atleast on tract before i leave... i just can't do my job... but thank you all again.. sorry i was just rambling there, i am trying to get help going to counseling twice a week, started going to church, and volunteering... i have gone to the library to read some help books... anything else you guys can suggest?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You are in a panic and so this is still all about you--you want things "on track" before you leave, in a month. But SHE needs time. Lots of it. Maybe forever--and the only thing you can do if you really, really want to prove you are not selfish is to let her have that time. Let her know, through a mutual friend or short note, that you understand how awfully selfish you have been and you realize that anything you do trying to get her back will be an assertion of your own need--so as an act to demonstrate your love and respect for her, you will leave her completely alone while you work on yourself and you will wait to hear from her. Then, live up to that. Arrange for a 3rd party to handle communication with your kids for you, so she isn't forced into it. Arrange as much as you can to keep you out of her life, as an act of love. And then, pray. Pray that after a period of enjoying her complete freedom from your selfishness, she starts to miss you. 

I can't even guess how long that might take--I'd say months, at least, if not a year or two. it honestly depends a lot on how difficult you were to live with--the more difficult you were, the less your "good qualities" made the difficulty worth it. Just as a random example, suppose you made her laugh twice a week, but most of the rest of the time you were around you either made things more difficult or did nothing to contribute fun/joy/reduce burdens in her life. Is that a good trade off? Where do you fit in? Thinking about things this way may give you a realistic sense of how long you may have to wait for her to miss you, and whether or not that is even going to happen. I'm sure that isn't what you want to hear, but knowing only that you agree you were selfish and immature, and that she thinks you were extremely selfish to the point of narcissism, that's the best I can offer. You have a long row to hoe, so to speak.


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## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

louie_a_lopez said:


> i want marriage counseling i went and found a good counselor, but my wife said she is not readyQUOTE]
> 
> 
> I'm sorry. I can't be bothered to read all of this, but the above caught my attention. When I was reading this initially, here's what I thought.
> ...


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes, as Sisters says, ask a third party to convey communication if need be. You should be able to spend time with your children if you want. And, you can still write that confession.

And yes, the perfect book is called The Love Dare. It is a book written specifically for your marital circumstances. It teaches how to love selflessly and unconditionally and how to express your love. It helps couples to rekindle their romance, and it will help you get your wife back.....and keep her. Once you guys are back together, it will be a good idea for her to read the book also in order for you both to build and maintain a healthy and loving relationship. You can watch the Fireproof movie first if you want. It will show you what the book is all about and how to practice the principles. Except that the acting is kind of chintzy in the movie, it is quite good and entertaining. Will give you a lot to think about. You can rent the movie at Blockbuster, any other video rental store, or online from Netflix or Blockbuster. You can also borrow the movie and the book from the library.


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

You need to let a psychologist decide if you have NPD, not a bunch of people on a forum. I served in the military. They don't test for NPD. You need to go to a civilian psychologist and talk to him (or her) about everything.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Louie,
You know what stood out in your post? The use of the word "I" nearly all the time. Couple that with being a firefighter, a job that envokes "hero" status, it all stood out to me. 
I would STRONGLY suggest individual counseling for you. This isn't about "winning" her back but rather about helping you.


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

thank you all again... it helps to know that there are people out there that do take time out of busy schedules to help... i am seeing two counselors, so twice a week dealing with my depression and just to have someone to talk to... so Brennan i am going to counceling, and i use the word "i" not because it is all about me but "i" am excepting blame... my counselors have shown me that i am responsible whether i want to be happy or not, and to stop blaming others... I have done the research about NPD and even though i do show traits i do not have a personality disorder... yes the navy does not check for it but seeing the job i have, where i would risk my life for my family, my country, and my guys that work for me that contradicts everything someone with NPD has because they are all about sense preservation at all costs... and yes i have put that to the test multiple times during actual fires and floodings during my 11 years of service... i grew up poor without anything, sleeping in the living room of a one bedroom apartment with a family of 5... so now that i am older and i have a good job i do spend my money selfishly... yes i know it is wrong, i am changing that... i honestly don't think it is about "me" it is about a beautiful family that is possibly falling apart... i do contact my kids i call my sons cell phone and been going to the park to meet up with them just to see them... i am trying to be a good dad... thank you susan we did see the movie "fireproof" and it did hit some soft spots, even though the acting was horrible... and i will get the book...sister thank you for your comments... i really hope it is not forever... i miss her, where do i stand... maybe in the middle i don't know... i always helped out with house work, the kids, yes i could have been more romantic and preceptive to her feelings and i am working on that... i am just having a bad feeling that she is hanging out with the wrong type of people and has the wrong counselor right now... she is hanging out with a woman that controls her husband... degrates him in public and this guy just takes it... she does not sleep in the same bedroom as her husband and is now going to be spending a few nights at my house because she does not want to be along in her house with her husband... her counselor does not seem like she wants to help "us"... i went to one of there session filled with positive attitude, thinking that we are going to be heading on the right path and the goal for that session was to have me sign a piece of paper saying that i am going to move out my house, be seperated and i have to sleep on my ship... also there has never been any domestic violence, i have never even raised my voice to my wife let alone my hand... 12 years... and i get the boot, i was taken back... next they where just staring at me and i asked if they want me to leave... they said yes and i left... she told my wife that i looked like i was in a rage... i went home and packed a few things, sat down and started crying...if that is rage then i am really confused... the counselor also took me back by telling me that i will never be happy.. this is after only 20minutes of meeting me... i am sad and unhappy sometimes with my job... i am always away i just came back from a 2 year tour to japan without my family... i have missed so much the past 11 years, so yes sometimes i get unhappy thinking about things like our 8 month deployment next month... she said even if i was a cop making more money she can not see me happy... i was stunned... i would love to have a 9-5, no underway, being home and making more money... i don't know that is why i say she may not be the best counselor... anyways thank you all again...


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

No doubt that counselor was wrong to say those things and for treating you that way. Her job is to build up her client, who is your wife, but she didn't have to tear you down in the process. I am wondering why you signed the paper. There's so much more to this story, and I'm not asking for any more details. I just think it would be best if you look at it for what it is, rather than for what it is not. All the terrible things you did not do, such as domestic violence, is much less important than all the things you did do. Not having battered your wife doesn't make anything okay. You have to focus on your behaviors and the reasons behind them, instead of constantly trying to defend yourself and your position. You don't think yourself a terrible person. Nobody ever does. And you're not a terrible person, but still you did things to your wife to make her want to leave you and consider you a person she does not want to spend her life with. You have to focus on those. The world is not out to get you, which you seem to think even though you deny being paranoid in any way (hmmm). People in your life, specifically your wife, need you to own up to your actions and attitudes. Why would she come back if you just keep harping on the all the things you didn't do. How grateful is that supposed to make her in light of all the things you did do? You need to write that confession letter whether you are able to give it to her or not. So stop trying to avoid it. And it should not include anything that you have written on this board. Not one word of it. No defending yourself. No claiming exempt from blame. None of all the things you didn't do that you feel make you a wonderful person. No explanations for the things you did, etc. It should only contain your confession - the things you did and said. That is the only way you can be honest. That is the only way you will see yourself as your wife sees you because that is the person you presented to her on a daily basis.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I see that you are in a pickle.

On the one hand, you don't like being labeled with a personality disorder, especially you've had professionals tell you it is not likely. On the other hand, this is what your wife told you as her excuse for leaving you. 

So why did she do it? Could be she watched Oprah or Dr. Phil and figured the label fit. Could be she wanted to wound you and feel superior and justify leaving you as something is wrong with you.

It even could be that she is spot on and you have NPD.

So where does that put you? You have a wife who doesn't want to be around you. The sickness and health clause of the vows don't mean much if there is 24/7 dysfunction.

If you try to show your wife that you do not have NPD by proof from health professionals, that won't work. She'll dismiss it out of hand.

If you try to prove that both you don't have NPD and have "changed" for the better, she'll dismiss that as not genuine.

Your wife has her own personal reasons for leaving you that she is not sharing with you. Proof of that is her refusal to participate in marriage counseling.

Not sure of your way forward, but I don't think the tactic of proving you are not someone with a personality disorder is the way to go. Find out what it is that is annoying your wife on a sustained basis and address those behaviors.

And even if it does not result in her return to affection for you, then at least you know what it is.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Louie hear me,
You do not have NPD.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Louie,
Glad to hear you are in counseling. The reason I mentioned the use of the word I, is your second post seemed to be very much about you and not so much about your loved ones. This last post was very different however and that is a good thing.
Now T/J.....
The Navy in San Diego is tough and that is why that base is the best in the Navy. North Island-Coronado. Happiness in San Diego can be found by just going outside and looking around. It is a stunning city and I miss it every day of the 13 years I have not lived there. Kuddos to all that you do to protect that beautiful city.


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thank you all again for your time... i will be seeing my counselor again today... just want to know how to deal with depression?? i have not been the same since my wife said that we are seperated... i just can't focus on my job, and i have 24 people working for me and i just can't lead them... as soon as i start thinking about my kids or my wife i get tears on my eyes and have to walk away before i start crying... it is a new ship and new people, but already know i am making a bad impression... sorry i am just venting, my mind cannot hold a solid thought... just want to thank you all again...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Louie,
Depression has its own way sometimes. It’s there for a reason, to tell you there’s something really out of balance with your life, but you already know that. It’s “normal”. It can take time to work through it and that’s ok but you’ve got some serious business to take care of with your career at the same time.

Having you spoken with your supervisors? What you’re going through is unfortunately a part of life and at times it sucks. Your response is very “human” and others will recognise that. So maybe you need a little help from your friends and if you make your colleagues aware of your situation then I’m pretty sure they’ll find a way to help out. It is a “responsible” thing to do to let them of your situation.

Cheers for now

Bob


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks Bob.. i talked to my supervisor and told him that i am sorry if i am going to start sliding my head is not in the game right now... i told him the situation and he understands... the navy and military have a huge divorce rate, supervisor is on his third marriage... i just don't want to be like that... i have a wonderful wife, two amazing boys that need me, and my dogs that i want to play with... i just can't fall under the divorce trap... when i said "i do" that was it, rich or poor, sickness or health, until death do us part... i really meant it... i know marriage is special... i really don't want to take medication for depression, church has been helping, and volunteering... just anything that keeps my mind from thinking... i been taking long rides on my motorcycle just to forget... don't know what else to do?? father's day was hard.. my son told me that he was going to ask his mom to give me another chance... that almost brought me to tears... i just feel like i am going through a downward spiral... when does the pain end? i feel like the only stable thing in my chaotic life has just crumbled...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’re very welcome Louie. When I was going through some stuff I too got on my motorcycle and went for long rides. I spent private prayer/meditation time in village churches and visited cathedrals. It’s at times like these that the really human side of work colleagues come out, we see a different aspect of them.

Two years in Japan. I can see why the divorce rate is so high in the navy and you’re going off on another tour soon. I wonder what can be done in the time left before you leave. Did the separation paper really come as a shock to you or did you have a gut feeling that something was wrong? Weren’t there any signs at all, emotional distancing, withholding that sort of thing. I must say if that’s the first time you heard your wife wanted a separation I don’t think she did it in a nice way at all. I wonder why she chose that way of doing it rather sitting down with you and telling you, it does seem very callous to me. People with NPD don’t have the empathy chip and it’s typical of their behaviour.

She asked you to leave your house and your two children knowing full well that you’d soon be going on a new tour after more than a decade of marriage, amazing. Sounds like she even set it up with her counsellor and who wouldn’t look sad and maybe angry under those circumstances. I think it was a brutal way of doing it.

When you go on tour the time and distance will give you a totally different perspective. You wont know it now but time is a great healer. If it doesn’t work out the way you want it to right now, you will find a new path, a new way that you will be happy and content with.

Bob


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

hang on/in there louie! remember "this too shall pass" as many have, are, & will be 
where u r right now.

the worst part of pain/sorrow/depression is: thinking/feeling like
it will never come to an end. but know well that it will.
we've all been there, via many experiences in life. i'd bet u
have to, only w/ other issues/events.

when u have heart to hearts w/ yer W, make sure u show her
u r strong in a good way and want to know what she thinks
and not counter what she says. just listen. let it sink in.

maybe after she gets her stuff all out, then it can be yer
turn to say what the solution may be.

be prepared for all things. as a navy man i imagine u will be.

ray:


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

thank you Bob and CB45, we been having problems since i came back from Japan... we where just not connecting... i have friends from facebook and i sent a friend an angry venting email where i said things that where messed up... calling her lazy and such... well she went into my facebook and printed out the emails and said that i have just betrayed her... i totally understand i should have never said the things i said... she is my wife and anything negative i say about her i am saying about me... even though i was just venting to a friend, that was the last straw... i went to my counselor and she suggested a goal, well her counselor's goal was to get me out the house... i kind of saw something coming but not this, not that way, and not this close to another deployment... i seen really rotten things in the navy... wives pregnant on the pier by other guys, pictures of wives cheating, divorce papers in the mail, wives in single web sites, you name it... the navy is hard on marriages, i love my wife and kids and just want us to make it... i miss my home team... thank you again for hearing me and hopefully this depression will go away... i am tired of walking around with a sunking feeling in my chest...


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## Anooniemouse (May 5, 2010)

The military is brutal on marriages. Nearly everyone I know who got sucked off to year + deployments has come back single, especially those doing their second, and third year long deployment with only 6-9 weeks at home before the ship them out again. When they do finally get back, many of them find their S/O has moved on, and/or they just can't reconnect, and get out of that mode of adrenaline from their work. They expect it will be instantaneous, but more often their spouse, and even their kids take longer than they have at home to reconnect with them. A lot of times it just doesn't happen. 


I feel for your situation. Unfortunately, I don't have much in my bag of tricks that is going to resolve it in the way you want, but might help you down the road if this continues to divorce. I'm good with patterns, and one I see developing is this: What I see is a wife that has chosen to play the victim role, which is why she broke out the NPD label. Likely she will play this role openly, and well. She has been practicing this role for quite some time with her therapist. While you are gone on your next deployment she will play that role for your mutual friends, kids, her family, and in the court room during divorce. (There are, of course, worse ways she could play the victim role, especially if she aided by a counselor who uses feminist theory ... such as fake abuse complaints, restraining orders issued the day or two before deployment where you have no chance to fight them. People can do some evil things.) This may taint a great deal of relationships. 

I strongly urge you to go to a pair of counselors, and to get a pair of assessments for mental illness. Pay cash. Keep those results with you. Its not about proving to your wife anything, its about removing any potential dark cloud when you are likely dealing with attorneys, and a judge deciding the time you will get to spend with your kids later. Its also about keeping her from trashing you with this to your kids, your friends, in court, etc. If all of this does break in divorce court, insist on an order getting the trash talk to stop from the get go, and those papers will come in handy.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Louie,
Whoops with the emails. Was the friend male or female, it probably makes a difference. To such an extent that if it was female it may well be your wife’s key motivator for separation and divorce and the way she did it, especially if there were other things she didn’t like about the relationship. Could have been the final straw sort of thing. That’s a really tough lesson.

Maybe you have a very big conflict inside of you. On the one hand you’re seriously motivated to be married with children while on the other you’re seriously motivated by a career in the navy. It seems that the two just aren’t compatible and hence the inner conflict. Reckon you don’t need to give up on your marriage to save your career but if you truly want a good marriage, either with your present wife or another one down the line you’d need to sacrifice your career in the navy in order for that to happen.

Bob


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thank you Bob and Anooniemouse, yeah i am going to two counselors now... one was my original counselor and the other was suppose to be our mutual counselor... so i am working on fixing myself... bob yes the she was a female so the reaction was well expected and deserved... even though my female friend is nothing more than a little sister to me, i could totally see where i betrayed her... God i feel so bad, and wish i could take it back... and i have 9 more years in the navy before i can retire... but i am already looking for another career i really don't know if i can do 9 years with my family... thank you all again for your advice, knowledge, and support...


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm not a psychologist or anyone knowledgeable at all really (lol) but I have the distinct impression that if you really DID have NPD, you wouldn't have even thought to come on this board. You wouldn't have cared about what your wife thinks at all. I've read that NPD is like the ultimate level of selfishness. You wouldn't have had any guilt or depression about what happened in your marriage because you would straight up think you were in the right and everyone else's opinion is irrelevent.

Like I said, I'm not an authority on it, just my opinion from what I've read here and there. Take it with a grain of salt  just food for thought anyway.


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thank you 76... i been researching NPD since my wife told me i had it... it is extreme selfishness and a constant liar so it really made me feel hopeless... i felt like any chance that i would get to prove i do not have NPD it would be thought up as fake... i am extremely nervous now, my wife sent me an invitation to attend marriage counseling on monday... now i been praying for something like this, but i just have a bad feeling since my last session with her counselor when i was told to leave the house, told i was a narcissist, and told that i will never be happy... i am just praying that the counselor wants to help and get us on the right tract... i am not expecting too much, but i am hoping not to get side blinded again... i am really nervous and scared, i have not seen my wife in almost a month... any one have any suggestions? what should i say? i really love this woman and want things to be better than before, but it takes two...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Louie,
This is very easy for me to say as I’m not in your situation. I wouldn’t go back to your wife’s councillor. She’s done too much damage already and is exceptionally both one sided and opinionated.

I think it entirely depends on what your wife’s intent is. If she wants to get together with you to see if you can rebuild your marriage together that it should not matter to her who the councillor is. The choice of the counsellor is secondary to the intent. Sure your wife feels comfortable with the counsellor but you most certainly don’t. That is no way at all to start off such a delicate process. The counsellor should be unknown by either of you so you can start off fresh. If you go with your wife’s councillor all you will be doing is defending yourself.

If your wife’s intent is to hurt you further then she will stick with the original counsellor.

If your wife’s intent is divorce mediation then you should choose the mediator between you.

So I would ask your wife’s what her intent is, what she expects to get out of such a meeting. Once I have the answer I would not make a decision at that time. I would just say to my wife thank you very much, I need time to think about it and will get back soon. And then I would end the conversation. And then I would think about what it is I’ve learnt about my wife’s intent.

If your wife does anything at all negative between the time you find out what her intent is and before you’ve given your answer you will know a lot more about your wife’s intent. You’ve already signed an agreement to get out of your home, she may well have set you up for something else like that.

Bob


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thank you Bob for your concern... this will be a new counselor for me... my wife knows him for he is my eldest sons counselor... so he knows her and has heard about me... that is the only problem i have, i really want someone who does not know either one of us and to start the session fresh... she has talked to him before so i don't know what was said about me... my wife made my son go to the counselor when he became a teenager and started acting out... i am just scared to be in a room with her and a counselor that may have a picture of me from her words... i don't know i feel like i am in such a tight spot and so desperate to fix my marriage that i am willing to try anything... i would just be devasted if she serves me divorce papers there or has legal seperation papers... i don't know what i will do... i really do not want to get to a deeper depression that i am already at... appointment is on monday so i have the weekend to sweat it out, i been reading "secrets to a happily married man," and it has been helping me... i am going to a great counselor who is really helping me deal with my emotional side, which i thought i didn't have... i really wish she was our couple's counselor... i feel 100% safe with her because i feel like she is a genuine person who wants to help... anyway, thank you bob, i really appreciate your time...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Emotions, aren’t they just a whole new ball game! We get through our life thinking we don’t have them and wham there they are right in our face. They’ll tell you a lot about yourself though once you can name them and understand them.

Your emotions will more likely get tweaked at the meeting, some are natural born experts at manipulating others emotions. Believe me it’s a conscious and deliberate act designed to get a specific result. Just be calm and rational. Difficult if you’re not used to doing it with so much going on inside but you’ve been trained to handle complex and tough situations.

What works for me is to take a third person perspective. Imagine you’re someone else in the room just observing what’s going on. It helps prevent taking things so “personally”. You could practice this over the weekend. Would be a bit like you’re watching a film of one of the fires you’ve fought, with the other people in the film as well.

I would still find out what your wife’s intent is before the meeting. You need to know so you can prepare. Being as it is with your son’s councillor you may well have a contract put on the table related to your children. If you do whatever happens do not sign it. Do not take the actions of a desperate man, you would live to regret it.

Good luck

Bob


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## louie_a_lopez (Jun 12, 2010)

Thank you Bob that was real solid advice... we had a family day cruise and my sons where here with me onboard my ship... i want to be a good father and i decided whatever happens my children will always come first... my sons both said that they are proud of me and they wish mommy would just give me a second chance... regardless all i have ever wanted was for my family to be proud of me... i grew up in a very poor family and was beaten by my dad if i did not get straight "A's"... also to him any emotion was a sign of weakness so i grew up almost with no kind of emotion... a lot has been brought up with my counselor and i see why i act the way i do sometimes... i am by no means excusing my mistakes but starting to actually be aware of my reactions... self help books and this website have helped a ton... i was always a firm believer that no one cares... but time is the most precious thing we have... once given it could never be taken back... and all that have given me their time, i am truely grateful... i am done signing things... unless a lawyer is present i am not signing anything, i have learned my lesson... i love her and i am deeply in love with her, but i have been taken advantage off and been held from living my life for a long time and will never let any one have that control over me again... so if divorce is the word it will suck but i am ready...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I find it amazing how my view of my wife changed so rapidly. I went from “do anything and everything I can to keep her by my side, walk the last mile” sort of thing to damn it, go your own way and be happy and at peace with yourself. I simply gave up trying.

That was after 40 years together. I just find it so amazing that I thought I couldn’t live without her and now I find I don’t miss her. I think a switch went in my head, like a big lever that took a lot to go over but once it did, that was it. I think the person I knew was no longer that person. Or maybe there wasn’t any change, that I just had new eyes or something.

It is surprising how humanistic people can be. I had a nervous breakdown after my wife left. It was then I discovered how compassionate friends and neighbours can be. I actually had people calling round on a regular basis to have a chat and to check out if I was ok. Wonderful, heart warming stuff.

Seems like you’re going through the same change.

Good luck whatever happens.

Bob


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