# Spanking.



## MrsKy

I am wondering what the parents on TAM think about corporal punishment. 

My therapist is gently prodding me to talk about my abusive childhood. I would rather just move on and stop thinking about it, but she insists that breaking the silence is therapeutic. I was physically abused by my mother for many years.

Surprisingly, I have nothing against a well timed smack if a child is not listening. I think spanking should be the last resort and never given in anger. My mom gave her children some brutal beatings because she punished when she was mad. I would never advocate that, but I do think that more children need a spanking once in a while. Parents are too afraid of their children nowadays. Of course, I am not a parent so maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I have just seen the effects of parents being much too lax.

How about you? Do you hit your children?


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## livelaughlovenow

I was seriously abused as a child and I struggled with whether to spank my children or not. Dh was spanked simply, no abuse. So of course he was for it. At first I tried simple time outs but then I found myself yellinge when they didn't listen so finally one day I did give a spanking. I am much more reserved in when I give one but I do believe it sends a clear message, as does other consequences such as grounding, no phone no friends etc. I think you should talk to your therapist about the abuse, it feels to good to get it out And release it and you may be surprise the issues that you still have from it that talking About it uncovers, I know I was, but in addition I had abonment issues as well, however the abuse was worse because it affected my self esteem and my trust of other people. Still does to this day. But there is a big difference between a simple spanking and beating a child.. But for someone who was abused it is hard to separate the two in your mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Once my toddler daughter was running down the driveway towards the street, didn't stop when I yelled, didn't stop when I screamed and I couldn't catch her until she was about 2 feet into the road I smacked her diapered ass HARD when I got hold of her.

It didn't take me long to realize hitting her wasn't a learning lesson but an outlet for my fear, anger and helplessness.

With that realization I never struck her again.

She's the most well behaved child I've ever known.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsKy

My father rarely hit me. I still have a lot of respect for him.
He would send me to my room or shout. That was enough for me.

One time when I was about five, he smacked me across the face. I peed all over the floor in shock. My father's eyes filled up with tears and he scooped me up in his arms. He used to give me little gifts or money the day after my mom would throttle me.

Despite the fact that I was abused, I can still separate abuse from discipline. A smack on the butt after two or three warnings is fine. Kicking or using pots to hit a child is abuse.


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## Gaia

MrsKy said:


> My father rarely hit me. I still have a lot of respect for him.
> He would send me to my room or shout. That was enough for me.
> 
> One time when I was about five, he smacked me across the face. I peed all over the floor in shock. My father's eyes filled up with tears and he scooped me up in his arms. He used to give me little gifts or money the day after my mom would throttle me.
> 
> Despite the fact that I was abused, I can still separate abuse from discipline. A smack on the butt after two or three warnings is fine. Kicking or using pots to hit a child is abuse.




Having been abused myself I do agree that a firm swat on the rear end is sometimes need. Yes sometimes it may seem like or can be an outlet for fear/anger however the child does learn something from it. Of course(depending upon the kid) sometimes a stern voice is all thats needed. With the condition I'm in right now I've had to mainly rely on my voice to get my kids to listen.. and they do. Whenever mommy raises her voice they know she means business... when mommy starts counting they quickly snap back to behaving lol. Time out works great with my kids even if they have tv and toys in thier room as does confiscating a toy they throw or use to hit. We rarely had to swat our kids on the butt.. it's normally when all else fails and even then the swats are three firm ones on the behind at most.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My parents were in the spanking generation. Also they would often use plastic or wooden spoons. I think it's cruel. I never deserved to be hit in anyway shape or form. No one does. My parents are not the best parents in the world and have a few issues amongst themselves. However, it was how they were taught to raise their children by their own parents. My mother often calls me names or lies to me even as an adult. If I call her on it, she plays the victim. I do stand up for myself and my family. 

I do not spank or hit my children, yet my husband and I are very strict with our children. Of course they make mistakes, but so do we. I was determined to break this cycle of parenting. 

I have very well behaved and happy children. They do not hit others either. I've noticed some of their friends have taken anger out which has resulted in hitting or shoving them. This one little girl pushed my daughter of the top bunk when she was young. Their bunk bed is a full on top of a full and is near the ceiling. This girl would hit also, but there are others who have hit as well. I immediately address this with their parents, so it doesn't happen again.

Children that are often spanked or spanked, sometimes hit others as well. This is what they are taught to do from their parents when they too, are angry.

I've been known to raise my voice once in a great while. Usually around PMS times. My husband on the other hand is extremely patient and fair. I've learn a lot from him. Especially how to raise children without losing my cool. I will never lay a hand on my children. I hope my children will use our parenting tactics on their own children. Also, my children rarely argue amongst each other. They are all very close and the best of friends. This makes parenting easier. Usually siblings fight, but not my own girls.

It's normally peaceful around here. It's a nice life.


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## Gaia

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My parents were in the spanking generation. Also they would often use plastic or wooden spoons. I think it's cruel. I never deserved to be hit in anyway shape or form. No one does. My parents are not the best parents in the world and have a few issues amongst themselves. However, it was how they were taught to raise their children by their own parents. My mother often calls me names or lies to me even as an adult. If I call her on it, she plays the victim. I do stand up for myself and my family.


I am against using anything but the hand .. and as far as your mother goes.. that there is another form of abuse. My mother is the same way, very degrading and hateful which is why she is not allowed to see my kids. To me a swat on the butt is fine since it's discipline... using a spoon(or in my case when i was younger a belt or 2x4) is totally uncalled for. Both my children are very well behaved as well and sure sometimes they get a wild hair up their butt but thats normal imo and as i stated earlier normally a stern voice and counting does the trick. Good to hear your family is doing great though.


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## 827Aug

Thankful my children are now grown. But, when they were less than six or seven years old, they did get a few whippins'. When my husband and I first started out, we tried the time out routines. We even read a few books on various popular non-spanking techniques. It didn't take long to see none of that was working. It only took a few swats on their bottoms for them to realize we meant business--and NO meant NO.

People always complimented us on how well behaved the children were when we were out. I could even take all three out (by myself) when they were below the age of 4 and never have problems--nice restaurants, grocery shopping, and even the toy isle. What I see when I go out now is a bunch of children out of control. My 18 year old daughters are even disgusted by how parents are allowing their children to misbehave in public places. 

Each to his own I guess.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

It hurts, and it could cause damage too. I don't agree with it. I think even in the case of the seatbelt, there are other things you could do, like pinning the kids' sleeve to the seat so that he or she couldn't undo the seatbelt, and doing this each and every time he or she undid his or her seatbelt in a moving vehicle. I had to do that with my middle child. He would get carsick and that contributed to him wanting out of his seat. Once we addressed the carsickness with homeopathic remedy (Tabacum, I think...) he got more compliant in a vehcile. Today I live 1/2 mile from his school in order to minimize time he has to spend in a vehicle, he still doesn't like it. Another thing you could do is consult a family therapist before resorting to corporal punishment, to find out other ways that people have coped, or to get to the root of the problem. I don't have to discipline my kids too much, typically I send them to their bed for quiet time and they read which is fine by them and fine by me. I have a kid-friendly household with reasonable expectations...however one of my children has a disability and so I did years and years of family therapy and am likely more patient and easy-going than most as a result.


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## MrsKy

The only times I have ever been violent in my life is when others have hit me first. I have only hit in self-defence. 

There were five children in my family. We were all VERY well behaved because we were frightened. 

I used to hate my mother, but now I realize that she truly did not know any better. She was raised with brutality and she was passing it on. I have compassion for a woman who was so damaged that she could enjoy hurting her children physically and emotionally. As an old lady, my mom is full of regret and sadness at how distant her adult children are.


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## arbitrator

As a father of two college aged boys, I am not an advocate of corporal punishment of children. Having said that, I have been the recipient of many spankings and beatings by my father as a child, and have been richly subjected to several visits with the "board of education" with my various secondary school football coaches.(It was actually legal in the 1970's!)

I spanked mine when they were very young basically to instill in them how to properly behave in general public. As they became older, then I reverted to the denial of any of their monetary benefits. To wit, that has worked extremely well more especially in their more formative and older years!


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## Gaia

3leafclover said:


> There is another reason why I disagree with spanking older children, though. Spanking as an adult kink/fetish is extremely common...possibly even THE most common fetish. As someone who has talked to maybe 5,000+ adults with this fetish, guess when it usually starts? For some, it starts so early they can't even remember. For most others, it started as an older child. Most of them were spanked by parents as children, but some were not. Caning as a fetish/kink in the UK is common, and it used to be used in schools as punishment there until relatively recently. Regardless of whether childhood spanking causes this interest, it just seems icky to me to think that many of the children being spanked today either already have or will end up having a sexual interest in it. I bet if their parents knew this, they would probably choose a different disciplinary approach because they'd start to feel a little incestuous about it, but of course they will probably never know.



I disagree with the spanking itself bringing about a fetish.... There is a complete difference between two or three firm swats on a diapered behind by hand and using a belt, board, whatever.... I do agree that older then four-five there isn't really a need for swats on the butt as they are capable of understanding things such as time out and toys being confinscated much better then at an earlier age. To me.. spanking/swatting.. whatever one wishes to call it is done by hand and only with toddlers between 2 to probably four or five... Thats my viewpoint anyway. I see using something such as a stick, board, ect as abuse and completely unnecessary. When it comes to something like sticking something in a plug in socket or something then a swat on the hand (not hard mind you) is necessary imo. I don't see any of that as corporal punishment... what comes to mind when i hear that is something really bizarre like the stocks or stoning or prison lol. Abuse to me .. aside from the fact that i consider outright beatings with belts, sticks, ect abuse... Would be something like making your kid run down a dirt road for about a mile and a half with no break, no water, and you driving a van yelling insults at them the entire way... Or in a case i seen on tv... some woman running her daughter too death. That stuff is abuse in my eyes... not to mention the mental abuse such as ... insulting the child or children, degrading them verbally, blaming them for marital problems, or the parent saying they will kill themselves ect ect....


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## Gaia

3leafclover said:


> I agree with you, in general. However, my son was not carsick. He had that defiant little gleam in his eye that toddlers get when they are determined no matter what you say. He was simply overwhelmed by his newfound superpowers (hehe, I've figured out the buckles on this contraption. You no longer control me, booster seat! I can get up whenever I want and Mommy can't stop me 'cause she can't take her hands off that wheel thing at the moment).
> 
> I am a patient parent. Well, I was more patient when he was younger...I think God must have known I needed it more then and let me use it. Child throws a screaming fit inside the supermarket? No problem, I'll just leave the cart (that's taken me 45 minutes to get half-filled and has ice cream melting in it) and we'll head straight outside to sit on the bench for awhile.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no time to consult a family therapist or stop by the store for some pins in such a situation. Toddlers will not link a consequence to a behavior unless it is an immediate one. A behavior that distracts the driver and could result in the child flying through a windshield...yeah, I'm not chancing that. You know how toddlers are, too. If they figure out they can get away with it a couple of times, they figure they can continue doing it and it can become a pattern that is much harder to break.



Ugh yes.. lets not forget those kids who are somehow born to be FAR more michievous then others!!! Some kids are sweethearts and don't need so much as a swat on the butt and some will intentionally take advantage if they learn they can get away with something. My sisters son for example... really bratty kid and never... NEVER spanked in his life. He is one of those kids who is overly aggressive, spoiled, ect.. His mother(my sister) tried grounding him and he ended up kicking holes in the walls, tried confinscating his nintendos and games to which he retaliated by breaking the tv. Of course he's too old for anything like a spanking by that time but how to deal with a kid like that? Sometimes i think such aggressive behavior is genetic... since all the males in MY family are aggressive and have been that way when they were younger.


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## johnnycomelately

tacoma said:


> It didn't take me long to realize hitting her wasn't a learning lesson but an outlet for my fear, anger and helplessness.


:iagree:

Well said. I just don't like the fundamental lesson - violence is the answer. 

My favourite is when I see a kid hit his/her sibling and the parent whacks him upside the head and says 'don't hit your brother!'


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## Gaia

johnnycomelately said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Well said. I just don't like the fundamental lesson - violence is the answer.
> 
> My favourite is when I see a kid hit his/her sibling and the parent whacks him upside the head and says 'don't hit your brother!'


I just have to lol at that... My hubby and I don't do that.. we make the one hitting apoligize by giving a kiss or hug then lecture them on how it is NOT ok to hit others.


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## tacoma

Gaia said:


> I disagree with the spanking itself bringing about a fetish.... .


I thought it was odd too until I read Nancy Fridays "Men in Love".

She's a therapist and the book is about mens fantasies.

Most of those fantasies involve some odd fetish,spanking,nylons, cross dressing and almost all of the men speak about how the source of these fantasies was their mother in some way shape or form.

The spanking submission fantasies "always" revolved around being punished by their mother as a child.

Weird but true.


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## joe kidd

My dad spanked me 5 times in my life. I remember every one of them. All it took was the threat of one and I straightened up. I do spank...but as a last resort. My 12 yrs old has been spanked 3 times . My 3 yr old has had a swat on his butt one or twice.


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## stoney1215

i believe that sometimes a kid needs a good ass kicking . my mom was quick with a back hand and quick with a belt . looking back on it now most of the time i needed it . she was a single mom raising a very argumentative , emerging alpha first born son . she never hit me out of anger , and only when i was disrespectful or way out of line . 

when i was 13 years old my mother had friends and family over the house . i was being disrespectful , and argumentative when i was not allowed to do what i wanted to do trying to use company as a tool to get what i wanted . after a few minutes my my mom telling me to knock it off and me not listening , she grabbed me pulled my pants and underwear down around my ankles , put me over her knee , and proceeded to beat my ass right there in front of neighbors and family . that was the last time my mother ever had to have that conversation with me . 

smacking should be used to show consequences . ie. smacking their hand to stop them from attempting to play with an electrical outlet . smacking should only be done to reinforce what is first given as a verbal command , and used immediately , not after many attempts verbally .


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## kitkateybug

Hubby & I agree on spanking, of course our child has to be born first. Both our parents used spanking as we were growing up. Not beating, an occasional spank (not hit) only when we broke the rules. It worked for both of us and his sister, we know how to use it. And we shared this opinion years before we married.


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## Tikii

I plan to spank my children when necessary. I think too many people confuse beating and spanking


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## Coffee Amore

We don't spank. We use other methods to discipline. 

I was never spanked. My parents always got compliments on how well behaved their children were.


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## Bellavista

Our 5 children are now 23,21,20,18 & 15. The first 3 being boys. 
When they were aged between about 18 months to 5 we did spank for willfull disobediance or dangerous behaviour. It did work for ours, in particular the boys. For misbehaviour that was escalating we would use the 1 2 3 (on 3 there would be a smack). No good using this if there is no follow through.
None of them are violent now (althought the 20yo is a karate champ). None of them have flashbacks to that terrible time of early childhood & suffer ongoing trauma. In fact, they joke about how hard they had to work to get treats & how they were always kept in line.
I do understand those who grew up in an abusive home having difficulty with this issue, however, there is a difference between discipline & abuse. I also understand people use different methods, as long as it actually works for your family, that is great. if however, you have little tyrants who are out of control, it may be time to change your methods.


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## oubliette

stoney1215 said:


> when i was 13 years old ..., she grabbed me pulled my pants and underwear down around my ankles , put me over her knee , and proceeded to beat my ass right there in front of neighbors and family .


I feel like I'm going to vomit.

This was sexual abuse. To pull down a teenager's underwear has NO JUSTIFICATION EVER.

At 13, I had been menstruating for 2 years and had B cups. Neither parent was enough of a piece of trash to attempt anything near my buttocks.


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## turnera

I was spanked once, and I still remember it. Used sparingly, it can be a powerful point when a child is doing something that could harm them or someone else. But I would point out ahead of time what circumstances would warrant a spanking, so that, if they DID go ahead and do one of the things they knew would get them a spanking, it's entirely on them, and they'd know it.


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## janefw

MrsKy said:


> I am wondering what the parents on TAM think about corporal punishment.
> 
> My therapist is gently prodding me to talk about my abusive childhood. I would rather just move on and stop thinking about it, but she insists that breaking the silence is therapeutic. I was physically abused by my mother for many years.
> 
> Surprisingly, I have nothing against a well timed smack if a child is not listening. I think spanking should be the last resort and never given in anger. My mom gave her children some brutal beatings because she punished when she was mad. I would never advocate that, but I do think that more children need a spanking once in a while. Parents are too afraid of their children nowadays. Of course, I am not a parent so maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I have just seen the effects of parents being much too lax.
> 
> How about you? Do you hit your children?


No, I don't hit my children. I have three boys, 20, 15 and 12, and none have ever needed to be spanked, and are growing up just fine, doing well in school, the eldest almost graduated through college, etc. 

My dad abused me and my siblings with various slaps and smacks, and I would hate to turn into him.


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## Gaia

Well clearly everyone here has different parenting styles and what works for them which is fine and wonderful i think. Of course we all have different ideas of what abuse is as well which is fine.. brings about the.. to each their own.... imo. Whatever works for each individual parent is what they should stick with i say.


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## FirstYearDown

turnera said:


> I was spanked once, and I still remember it. Used sparingly, it can be a powerful point when a child is doing something that could harm them or someone else. But I would point out ahead of time what circumstances would warrant a spanking, so that, if they DID go ahead and do one of the things they knew would get them a spanking, it's entirely on them, and they'd know it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Spanking is fine. 

Abuse and spankings are not synonymous.

I know that my abusive childhood gave rise to so much damage, some that will never heal.


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## Gaia

FirstYearDown said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree: Spanking is fine.
> 
> Abuse and spankings are not synonymous.
> 
> I know that my abusive childhood gave rise to so much damage, some that will never heal.


:iagree: here...


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## janefw

It's easy for spanking to turn into abuse. That's why it's better just not to engage in the first place. And there's no need to, when there are so many other options. Parents just need to get out of the lazy rut of spanking and explore other options.


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## Hope1964

Gaia said:


> Well clearly everyone here has different parenting styles and what works for them which is fine and wonderful i think. Of course we all have different ideas of what abuse is as well which is fine.. brings about the.. to each their own.... imo. Whatever works for each individual parent is what they should stick with i say.


I agree with this to a point. But if you believe that 'spanking' your kid for every little thing is OK and working for you, or that 'spanking' entails repeated blows that leave marks or something, I would beg to differ.

The line between discipline and abuse is a fine one. I was abused. My parents didn't think they were abusing me and my siblings, but that's what they were doing, by today's definition (I grew up in the 70's also). And the funny thing is, I still always felt loved by my parents. But I had various kitchen implements used on me by my mother, and a belt and willowswitch used on me by my dad. When I was 14, he was still pulling my pants down and using a belt on me. I had bruises from the buckle for 2 weeks. Clearly abusive. But I never _felt_ abused - even today, I don't hold it against them. They were doing what they thought was best - my dad's dad used to 'take him out to the woodshed' and use sticks of firewood on him. My moms dad used to smack them in the back of the head so that their face would bounce off whatever was closest.

When my own kids were little, I mirrored my parents to a degree - smack on the hand for touching something, smack on the butt for not listening. However, I never used anything but my hand. And as they grew I became more and more uncomfortable with it. The only one spanking ever worked on was my oldest. The other two it didn't. The second oldest is ADHD and spanking had no effect, and the youngest fell completely apart into a quivering mass of jelly at the slightest touch - she didn't need anything more than a stern word or two.

I don't remember the last time I spanked them - they're 18, 20 and 22 now - and I hope they don't either.


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## Gaia

Hope1964 said:


> I agree with this to a point. But if you believe that 'spanking' your kid for every little thing is OK and working for you, or that 'spanking' entails repeated blows that leave marks or something, I would beg to differ.



^^^I do agree with that as well however... abuse isn't just limited to physical.. but mental as well. Spanking for every little thing and hard enough to leave marks... yeah I'm against that... I'm also against constantly putting down your kids and humiliating them in public .. or private is wrong as well. (Example... calling them worthless piles of crap, saying they were the worst mistakes of your life, ect ect) Then of course... there is also the cases like that one with the mother and grandmother running that poor girl to death as a punishment. If it's harmful like that.. then yes I agree that it's wrong.. but a swat on a butt for... say.. punching grandma in the face isn't wrong imo... and again i say A swat.. not multiple swats to the point of leaving a mark or anything. A slap on the hand if they are messing with an electrical socket isn't wrong imo either. Those I don't consider abuse. You are right though that some people do go overboard when it comes to disciplining their kids.


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## Gaia

swat on the butt via hand is what I'm talking about... no way would I EVER let anyone ... nor would I ever use a stick, belt, ect to discipline my kids. I remember what a belt, 2x4, ect feels like and yeah i consider that abuse too.


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## janefw

Gaia said:


> ^^^I do agree with that as well however... abuse isn't just limited to physical.. but mental as well. Spanking for every little thing and hard enough to leave marks... yeah I'm against that... I'm also against constantly putting down your kids and humiliating them in public .. or private is wrong as well. (Example... calling them worthless piles of crap, saying they were the worst mistakes of your life, ect ect)


It isn't either/or though. You can chose not to abuse verbally or physically. 



> Then of course... there is also the cases like that one with the mother and grandmother running that poor girl to death as a punishment. If it's harmful like that.. then yes I agree that it's wrong..


I'm glad we are agreed that killing a child is "wrong".



> but a swat on a butt for... say.. punching grandma in the face isn't wrong imo...


What kind of people raise a child who will "punch grandma in the face". Kids aren't naturally aggressive to that extent. If they are not just taught respect but also treated with respect, they are extremely unlikely to punch elderly relatives in the face. 



> A slap on the hand if they are messing with an electrical socket isn't wrong imo either. Those I don't consider abuse. You are right though that some people do go overboard when it comes to disciplining their kids.


You know that you can get plastic covers to put in the electrical sockets, right? They are very cheap, and only the laziest parent in the world chooses to slap hands rather than invest in half a dozen of those covers. 

This all comes back to - and this is not a rant against you Gaia, but a general rant - how much work the parent/s can be bothered to do, and how smart they are. I have heard countless times parents whine that little Johnny keeps trying to get the porcelein china vase off the low table, and so they just "had to" slap his hand and tell him no - and this happens time after time until little Johnny doesn't dare go anywhere near the table. I don't know why people get stuck on stupid like this. When a baby starts to crawl, you move things out of his/her way and make life safe for him/her with cupboard locks and electrical point covers, and gates for the stairwell. I really can't stand the people who think that there is something that a year old and 18 month old absolutely "needs" to learn at that age, like staying away from staircases. No. The parent protects the child - that's the parent's JOB. And doing it by hitting - wow, what a stupid concept. There is time enough, as the child gets older, to remove those locks/covers/and put the delicate things back on the low tables, when your child can be properly taught to take care around valuables, and to keep his/her distance from anything dangerous. Hitting a small child who is a 10th of the parent's height and weight because they don't understand that something is dangerous, and that same parent can't be bothered to spend $50 childproofing their home, is just disgusting.


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## Cee Paul

There are some kids(like me)that timeouts are not enough and does not get their attentions or strike fear into them, so a good spanking is very necessary to get their attention and makes them afraid of doing that again(and I got plenty of those).

My dad used to whip our azzes if we did something really wrong, and then later on that night or the next day he would sit us down or take us out for an ice cream cone and tell us that he loved us, and also explain WHY it is we had to get a whoopin.


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## turnera

The best punishment I ever heard is to tell them "I'm going to think about your punishment overnight, and let you know in the morning what it will be." Let their own imagination do worse than you ever will.


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## Cee Paul

If we would have been able to have kids(my wife is unable to drop eggs)I would've definitely including spankings into my parenting plans, but now at 46 I have very little patience or tolerance for bad behavior so I have a feeling I'd be losing my temper a lot & spanking them a lot, so this is another reason I have decided against adoption and no longer want to be a parent.


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## Maricha75

I spank on occasion. It is VERY rare tho. I have learned that for my kids, and for my youngest niece especially, time outs don't work. My kids very rarely need them. My niece, however.... NOTHING works for her. Nothing. Not time outs, not spanking, nothing. She is 4 and a holy terror. No, she does not get beaten. It is never more than open hand to her bottom, fully clothed. If it is sassing (after repeated attempts to verbally curtail the behavior), she gets 2 fingers to the mouth. My kids as well. Same thing we girls got when we were kids. Again, very rare that it is used...only when other methods are exhausted.

Regarding childproofing... even the best parent can miss some things. I guess I am lazy. But, the funny thing about that... even the ones that were uncovered, my kids didn't stick things into. Easy to say "parent can't be bothered to spend $50 childproofing their home, is just disgusting."... Yea, hard to get that extra $50 out of a fixed income...when the fixed income was not anticipated to be the ONLY income at the time the baby was conceived.... But, hey, if that makes me lazy, so be it. My kids are well behaved, and they are not afraid of me. They are happy go lucky, fun, loving, well adjusted. So... I will stick with my methods, thanks.


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## turnera

Hmmm...humans have survived for a few hundred thousand years without childproofing.


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## costa200

I have a 3 year old daughter. I smacked her in the but exactly once because she was doing this horrible tantrum. Worked wonders. When she is acting up, because the little sweetie is very active and playful, i just look at her in a certain way. 

My parents smacked me when i was little. I love my dad and mum. I could hardly ask for better given what they had to work with. 

But you have to find your own way of parenting. And i'm sure you're pretty aware of the difference between educational physical punishment and abuse. Your child cannot be suffering lasting marks or bruises. It is also unnecessary to go to that extreme. 

Plus the physical menace is an exception. The "or else..." is much better than the actual thing.



> What kind of people raise a child who will "punch grandma in the face". Kids aren't naturally aggressive to that extent.


Oh yes they are. I've had contact with hundreds of little kids since my mother was a professional nanny and yes they do this naturally. It's a myth that kids are only violent if within a violent environment.


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## SimplyAmorous

I was spanked as a child, my husband was spanked as a child... Neither one of us has ever been in a fist fight in our lives, it did not in any way shape or form cause us to act out violently towards other people. We were both very responsible teens and very responsible parents.... and yes, we have both spanked our "young" children...when we felt it was called for. 


None of them have been abused and if you ask any of them today, they would agree wholeheartily. Just asked the 14 & 15 yr old, the older joked I only abuse Dogs (haven't been too patient with the new puppy peeing on the carpet). Another teen who spent the night said he was also spanked, GREAT KID, smartest in his grade... Wouldn't hurt a fly.....that's why I like him and don't mind how often he stays over!

This is just 1 form of discipline among many in their toddler years... I have used it when I wanted to ALERT them on the spot. Once they can be reasoned with, it is more about taking things away, you still give them a CHOICE, but they learn it is on them -that they found themselves in that particular situation...I am BIG on warnings for my kids...spelling it out so there is no misunderstanding... they know what is expected of them & when it is crossing a line....I am not overly strict which would make life unbearable....I do give them some leeway....so when they push that envelope.....consequences will be all over them. 

If they insist on blaming others for the things they brought upon themselves..this is something they learn very young that will not fly in our house. They must know for everything they set their hands too, there may be a difficult consequence on the other end. 

How parents dish this out can be very creative and even a little entertaining. From making them write a report (when they are older-I've done this) to slowly empyting everything from their room if he/she continues to be an obstinate mule. (Never had to do that one!), but we know of a family using it right now. I appaud them. 

We allow our children to speak their minds to us, to reason with us MORE than most parents would allow...they know they are loved.... I haven't have to spank much, but I am not against it. There is always a fine line of Abuse on this particular subject. I suppose if one WAS abused as a child like this, they can never see it in a constructive light, I don't know!?? But I am not in the camp that feels all spanking is Abusive. Nor will I ever be. I feel it has served ME well in life... 

If you knew some of the wonderful families I do that have used spanking, including my own..you might be surprised. Apart from our youngest (who is more of a handful)... we have had many compliments on our children's behavior, in class, on the bus, even strangers when they learn who are kids are, they go on about them, praising them, always makes us feel proud....like we have done something RIGHT in our parenting. 

It is simply not a "black & white" issue...all parents thrown into one box on the "spanking" front.


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## YinPrincess

Having not read the replies, here is my response; my daughter is not yet old enough to do anything to warrant spanking and I never plan to do so.

Bringing violence and fear into a young child's life is awful, in my opinion. To intimidate and threaten a young being who relies on you solely for their survival and safety is to ask them to cope with matters they shouldn't be exposed to until much later in life.

Children are children for a reason - they are not adults and they should not be related to as such. We have to return to our child-mind to remember how it is that they think, and how best to discipline.

I think that positive reinforcement and consequences can work if approached in the right state of mind. You don't want to punish a child. You want to teach them... There is a big difference.

Just my two cents. I know that I'm a new parent, but I also spent an early part of my childhood living in fear of making a mistake; of being hit, by hand or belt. I remember wondering WHY I was being hit... Nothing was ever explained to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed

Coffee Amore said:


> I was never spanked. My parents always got compliments on how well behaved their children were.


No offense Coffee, but I HATE it when people say things like this.

EVERY child is different. I was an easy going child. I was spanked maybe 3 times as a kid. I learned from my mistakes. My sister on the other hand... phew. She would push my parents to the breaking point, get whooped, look at them like she was the victim and then do it all over again. 

My daughter is easy going. I can get on to her with a stern voice and let her see my disappointment and she will start crying. My son on the other hand... we have tried EVERYTHING. We exhausted every avenue until spanking was our last choice. I am absolutely amazed by his stubbornness and refusal to follow the most basic of directions.


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## SimplyAmorous

Speed said:


> No offense Coffee, but I HATE it when people say things like this.
> 
> EVERY child is different. I was an easy going child. I was spanked maybe 3 times as a kid. I learned from my mistakes. My sister on the other hand... phew. She would push my parents to the breaking point, get whooped, look at them like she was the victim and then do it all over again.
> 
> My daughter is easy going. I can get on to her with a stern voice and let her see my disappointment and she will start crying. My son on the other hand... we have tried EVERYTHING. We exhausted every avenue until spanking was our last choice. I am absolutely amazed by his stubbornness and refusal to follow the most basic of directions.


I so agree with you SPEED. Crazy little devils and little angels can come from the same darn family. Our 1st son was so EASY & good ..... I couldn't understand why all these other parents were complaining about their kids, mine was a living BREEZE when he was young... even into his teens. Couldn't ask for better. 

The ones in between had thier moments...then we had our last...truly the little monster of the bunch... I've gotten a call from his Pre school Teacher that he was swearing in class, really makes us look bad! He doesn't want to listen to the teachers directives, wants to do his own thing. 

I think alot of this is the *temperment* a child is born with. My husband enjoys telling me this one has MY temperment... I know he is right, but I don't think I was THAT bad as a kid... the little ****** has very little patience and speaks his mind...a little too freely.  Sometimes this is very funny, but as he grows, it won't be!!

If there is any of our kids we NEED to go in the RIGHT direction in life, it is THIS one... or we may be in for a wild troublesome ride through his school years. 

He is 5 now, when he gets out of hand, getting all IRATE over loosing in a video game for instance...or telling me this movie is stupid, where we are going is stupid...I am stupid.... I will grab him and make him sit next to me in a chair...he will stay there until he calms down & gets rid of the attitude and lousy face expressions. I need to teach that boy some gratitude somehow. Working on that. 

I can see how these temperments are all different in our 6 children even. One is overly sensitive... he needs more outright encouragement -his #1 love language is "Words of affirmation"...so we have to be careful to lavish this when he is well deserving of it, not to neglect this, it is very important for his well being. 

It think this (the Love languages) also plays a role in how we discipline them as well. If all we do is spank and never hug, or stoke their hair (if a girl), give high 5's to a boy, maybe a little friendly wrestling with dad.......this could be very unhealthy to the psyche of a child who is craving love by physical touch. 

We all need balance. And to be careful not to Shame our children when they do a "BAD thing"... we don't want them to feel THEY are bad. 

This is very important as well.


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## Cee Paul

YinPrincess said:


> Having not read the replies, here is my response; my daughter is not yet old enough to do anything to warrant spanking and I never plan to do so.
> 
> Bringing violence and fear into a young child's life is awful, in my opinion. To intimidate and threaten a young being who relies on you solely for their survival and safety is to ask them to cope with matters they shouldn't be exposed to until much later in life.
> 
> Children are children for a reason - they are not adults and they should not be related to as such. We have to return to our child-mind to remember how it is that they think, and how best to discipline.
> 
> I think that positive reinforcement and consequences can work if approached in the right state of mind. You don't want to punish a child. You want to teach them... There is a big difference.
> 
> Just my two cents. I know that I'm a new parent, but I also spent an early part of my childhood living in fear of making a mistake; of being hit, by hand or belt. I remember wondering WHY I was being hit... Nothing was ever explained to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you would've had me or my bratty younger sister as your kids you would fully understand and fully SUPPORT the spanking system.


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## Encore DT

MrsKy said:


> I am wondering what the parents on TAM think about corporal punishment.
> 
> My therapist is gently prodding me to talk about my abusive childhood. I would rather just move on and stop thinking about it, but she insists that breaking the silence is therapeutic. I was physically abused by my mother for many years.
> 
> Surprisingly, I have nothing against a well timed smack if a child is not listening. I think spanking should be the last resort and never given in anger. My mom gave her children some brutal beatings because she punished when she was mad. I would never advocate that, but I do think that more children need a spanking once in a while. Parents are too afraid of their children nowadays. Of course, I am not a parent so maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I have just seen the effects of parents being much too lax.
> 
> How about you? Do you hit your children?


Never. Nor do I think it's beneficial in any way to hit children when they are misbehaving. As long as you start early enough, there are far better ways of disciplining.


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## Cee Paul

Encore DT said:


> Never. Nor do I think it's beneficial in any way to hit children when they are misbehaving. As long as you start early enough, there are far better ways of disciplining.


No offense, but I would've had a field day with you as a parent.


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## Encore DT

Cee Paul said:


> No offense, but I would've had a field day with you as a parent.


Well I AM a parent, so I have a "field day" every day


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## Cee Paul

Encore DT said:


> Well I AM a parent, so I have a "field day" every day


Nothing like I put my parents through I can assure you, and they are both calm people but said I always pushed them over the edge to the point I HAD to be spanked(because it's what I feared the most).


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## Encore DT

Cee Paul said:


> Nothing like I put my parents through I can assure you, and they are both calm people but said I always pushed them over the edge to the point I HAD to be spanked(because it's what I feared the most).


Well I'm sure there are exceptions...I was just talking about the average kid.


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## Cee Paul

Encore DT said:


> Well I'm sure there are exceptions...I was just talking about the average kid.


I was one of the youngest of 8 kids so several years ago in therapy I learned that it was just me starving for attention, and that I was constantly acting up to get some. After relaying this to my parents they totally agreed 100%.


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## Gaia

janefw said:


> It's easy for spanking to turn into abuse. That's why it's better just not to engage in the first place. And there's no need to, when there are so many other options. Parents just need to get out of the lazy rut of spanking and explore other options.


An open hand swat on a diapered butt is a far cry from abuse... nor could it "easily" turn into abuse. If it could then the person using this discipline shouldn't really be around kids unless they learn some self control. True there are other options however not all options work on all kids. Each and every child is different from the next and what works for one.. will not work for another. Some people are lucky to have kids who don't need a slap on the hand or a swat on the butt however kids are not stupid and they can and will manipulate a situation.. even as young as 2. To assume they are not clever enough to do so would be incredibly naive.


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## Gaia

janefw said:


> It isn't either/or though. You can chose not to abuse verbally or physically.
> 
> *True people can choose to not abuse but we all know that there are those who just ignore the not part.*
> 
> 
> I'm glad we are agreed that killing a child is "wrong".
> 
> *Indeed it is... but it shouldn't even get to that point to begin with. The case with the grandmother and mother killing the child by running her to death as a punishment was an example and it had indeed happened to me as a child. The running as a punishment that is and hell I'm lucky to even be alive today due to that. OF course all the past abuse I went through is more then likely part of the reason WHY I have issues now doing anything physical. *
> 
> What kind of people raise a child who will "punch grandma in the face". Kids aren't naturally aggressive to that extent. If they are not just taught respect but also treated with respect, they are extremely unlikely to punch elderly relatives in the face.
> 
> *Now I would like to point out that first of all, toddlers are well known for tantrums and aggressive behavior. They are clearly NOT raised yet.. but in the process of being raised so therefore a two year old punching his grandmother in the face isn't something anyone can foresee now is it? So clearly that has nothing to do with how they were raised considering there isn't much you can teach the child before two that they can understand now is there?*
> 
> You know that you can get plastic covers to put in the electrical sockets, right? They are very cheap, and only the laziest parent in the world chooses to slap hands rather than invest in half a dozen of those covers.
> 
> *Now tell me, for those parents who do go out and get plastic covers for the sockets, locks for the doors, baby gates, ect... would you still consider them lazy if even after putting all these things in place.... the child still manages to get into these forbidden areas regardless? Children do watch and learn and some even find it quite a game to go and undo these plastic covers from the sockets and mess with the sockets regardless. If you think a toddler is incapable of removing these plastic covers, think again. Sometimes the only way for the child to realize this is not a game is if they get that swat on the hand. The constant pulling them away and putting them elsewhere can be seen as a pretty fun game depending on the kid.*
> 
> This all comes back to - and this is not a rant against you Gaia, but a general rant - how much work the parent/s can be bothered to do, and how smart they are. I have heard countless times parents whine that little Johnny keeps trying to get the porcelein china vase off the low table, and so they just "had to" slap his hand and tell him no - and this happens time after time until little Johnny doesn't dare go anywhere near the table. I don't know why people get stuck on stupid like this. When a baby starts to crawl, you move things out of his/her way and make life safe for him/her with cupboard locks and electrical point covers, and gates for the stairwell. I really can't stand the people who think that there is something that a year old and 18 month old absolutely "needs" to learn at that age, like staying away from staircases. No. The parent protects the child - that's the parent's JOB. And doing it by hitting - wow, what a stupid concept. There is time enough, as the child gets older, to remove those locks/covers/and put the delicate things back on the low tables, when your child can be properly taught to take care around valuables, and to keep his/her distance from anything dangerous. Hitting a small child who is a 10th of the parent's height and weight because they don't understand that something is dangerous, and that same parent can't be bothered to spend $50 childproofing their home, is just disgusting.


*Well obviously if the child is crawling around and learning how to walk then clearly they are incapable of understanding the dangers so yes it is up to the parent to keep said glass vase out of the childs reach. There isn't much you can do or get the child to understand at that young age now is there? Of course when they get older and are running around talking, ect then yes clearly lectures and a stern voice will have some effect depending on the child. When they are at the toddler stage ... sure they understand more but for some children... if it isn't a swat on the hand or butt then it's "JUST A GAME". Like I said earlier, everyone clearly has different parenting styles and if constant time outs and toy confiscation is the only thing that works then good for them however I do understand that not every child is the same and those disciplinary methods don't always work. Now I'm not sitting here saying hitting a child... For example, slapping them upside the head or across the face is acceptable.. and that I do see as abuse but a slap on the hand (and by slap on the hand I'm not talking about as hard as one can fricken hit either kind of slap. I mean a light tap thats enough to get the kids attention.. there is a difference.) is not abuse imo. Neither is a swat on a diapered but, same light, get the kids attention use... not as hard as fricken possible ffs. As stated earlier, if someone can not define the difference between a light slap on the hand and using all their strength for the discpline then they(in my opinion) should not be allowed near kids until they can learn to control themselves. *


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## anonymouskitty

I'm not against it either, have done it to all my 3 children a few times too. That followed by what my wife calls "The Stare"(I do this to her too ). Usually though its the younger two who're always bickering, the eldest feels that he's above all that now( Big Man). But spanking is probably the last resort in our book. I usually go with a crime and punishment model, works well.

Once we were on the highway when our car broke down. so there I was trying to figure out what was wrong and out of the blue the middle one just ups and takes off, had to yank her back and give her a solid spank on the butt, poor thing actually pissed in her shorts.I think this had more to do with the oncoming traffic than my spanking her.


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## Gaia

anonymouskitty said:


> I'm not against it either, have done it to all my 3 children a few times too. That followed by what my wife calls "The Stare"(I do this to her too ). Usually though its the younger two who're always bickering, the eldest feels that he's above all that now( Big Man). But spanking is probably the last resort in our book. I usually go with a crime and punishment model, works well.
> 
> Once we were on the highway when our car broke down. so there I was trying to figure out what was wrong and out of the blue the middle one just ups and takes off, had to yank her back and give her a solid spank on the butt, poor thing actually pissed in her shorts.I think this had more to do with the oncoming traffic than my spanking her.


We rarely have to swat on the butt or slap wrists at our house as well. Normally after one slap on the hand or swat on the butt a stern voice, time out, and toys being confiscated works well. Before that one swat though.. it was all a game to our kids... (My son more then daughter) but normally mommys stern voice or daddies works quite well. Now ... what the heck was your kid thinking? Those times... you gotta wonder.. what the heck possesses them to do such crazy things! My son gave us a scare a few times when he decided it would be fun to run out in the road instead of play in the yard!! There were no cars coming at the time but still!!! He certainly got a slap on the butt for that and a lecture along with time out. The road is a dangerous place and there are morons who don't bother to slow down despite seeing kids at play. Sure other parents around the neighborhood let their kids run out in the road... but not us. I'd like to keep mine living.. thank you very much.


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