# Seeking advice



## Beacon of Hope (Oct 30, 2013)

Hello, new to this forum...

My wife and I have been married 13 years, 2 kids, 12 years of which we have been having problems. I am iNTj, and she is esfj. Some details about her ways/actions are below. Bear in mind I am not perfect either, and she has some good with the bad. For the good I am thankful, for the sake of brevity I will focus on the issues only. We have been to two marriage counselors over 2 years (weekly) and it has only helped for brief periods; she misrepresents the truth to rationalize wrongdoing to them, and I come to be seen as an odd specimen. M.C's are very different from INTJ, different but respectful they are...

*About her:*
1) She tampered with contraceptives once for certain, possibly twice, yielding beautiful children 
a) She rationalizes/denies my evidence as “She was doing research to help her sister do this,” as her sister needed a child. Then years later delivered a different lie opposite to that, “Was helping her sister get contraceptives.” A third statement was about her knowing the contraceptive element having failed, but trying to restore it. But she thought it was fixed. Eh, rule: you tell husband these things, if not, its wrong.

2) She is very anti-abortion, but she offered one when I became mildly upset at #1 above. For the record I am anti-abortion, but I practice what I preach. Hypocrisy hurts. She also attaches to cult theology; has a hard time splitting from the non-logical draconian denominations. Recently this has mellowed a bit with MC's influence.

3) She has regulated my friendships, prohibiting my contact with people, or mocking me for such. I do have a backbone and keep a few friends, but against her will. She is especially against intellectual friends.

4) She refuses to eat right and exercise, spends all day in front of TV. Has stated that she can look like she wants, because of my religious beliefs she knows I am stuck with her and have to deal with it. (These comments have died down during past 2 years.)

5) She has attempted to stop all careers I have been involved with, citing that I will fail. I have made each of them work quite successfully. (These comments match her mother's ways)

6) She has (prior to 2 years ago) actively prevented me from reading, esp Bible, and from sharing faith with children. I did anyhow. (These actions match her mother's)

7) Her parenting is for the here and now, no insight, depth of thought, discipline by example.

8) Her upbringing and family are totally dysfunctional, all members but one have cheated/adultery, and all engage in welfare benefits, they also raised her with hostility.

9) Most of her talk is chore talk, I've gone years without even a simple complement. Life is a rolling complaint for her, with mellow neutral times as well. (This improves in the harshest of crisis, only for a little while)

10) For the first decade she told me she would not see a marriage counselor, I was forbidden from speaking of this. After a decade of my “reasoning” she began. I thought they would identify the flakiness and peel the husk from the corn. I was wrong. I will not judge them, they try, I am sure they help some.

11) A couple of times she has told people things that are not true about this matter, combining half truths to make an emotional story. 

*About me:*
1) I am ascetic, and religious. Despite being very devout and well read, I am not fanatical or judgemental; except for my intolerance of brittle cult types around my children.

2) I had a professional need for fitness years ago, and have stayed very fit, eating right as well. I carry discipline in training, so I expect a little treadmill time on the wife's part to keep bodyweight less than double what it should be. I do not seek perfection.

3) I abhor perpetual adolescence. The principle that she does not learn much from life, from shallow TV time, etc. Maturity, intelligence, knowlege are important to me. My demands are there, but reasonably presented. i.e. don't lie to me or about me, show appreciation, learn, etc.

4) IQ: I am up there, and have always been an unusual, effective introvert thinker, high EQ as well. She is very simple minded. I say this not condescendingly, as my IQ has done me more harm than good, especially in the past.

5) My parenting is very involved, I really get the kids thinking, doing things, and plant seeds of ethics every step of the way. I am a bit absent minded with the here and now, but we are both reasonable parents.

6) I am personable, have a sense of humor, and genuinely care about others. Additionally within INTJ'ness, I know that lacking people skills shipwrecks life, so I put people first, maybe why things work so well in business.

6) My tendancy to calmly respond rationally can bother her who is trying to beat me into submission / or wants an emotional charge.

7) I did not have a backbone in early years of life, after the age of 21 or so, mine became very strong, I have earned more respect than loss due to this. People trust me I perceive, due to my willingness to handle things.

*Concluding thoughts:*
I realize that I never loved her romantically, I did take her in as a charity matter we could say, as I am rather charitable (Fileo= brotherly love, Agape and Eros missing, a little Greek I know) . I want good things in her future, even if we split. How me met is a different book, I'll stay out of that for now. I have never had any other relationship, not even a hug or flirt with a woman, ever. But I have romantic feelings for women in general, just not her. I am not at risk of adultery, no specific other has ever been on my radar thankfully. But I can tell I'd like to be married to the right one, eh. It's a feeling, a little distant in the INTJ, but the wires are connected. To clarify personality types: I am INTJ she is ESFJ

Two months ago I shared with her the Greek words for love, and my lacking all but Fileo. I genuinely want the best for her, but am ready to step off of my cross and not be a complete sacrifice. I cannot view her with admiration at this point, I am being more parent than husband. In the past two months she has loosened the chain a bit, and that is nice, but even so I would not call my sentiment love, not at all...

*Your thoughts:*
Am I dealing with a battered childhood wife who is a victim and is not malicious?
Or a conspiring narcissist?
Is there any hope in remaining in a loveless marriage just to enhance her/kids quality of life?
In summary I am attempting to evaluate intent in the abuses, and feasibility of fixing things in light of extensive marriage counseling.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm confused as to what you are really looking for here. You presented a well thought out, full on prosecution of your wife, then presented yourself as a saint in every way (including one "weakness" presented as another saintly quality, not having a backbone with which to defend yourself), then state that you never loved her, do not love her, am not compatible with her, etc.

Honestly you already plainly want a divorce. I think the only thing you left out is a description of the new woman you've been seeing/speaking with/thinking about on the side.

(Not trying to be a ****, but I feel extremely confident that you already have spent a great deal of time thinking about, if not actually doing something about, seeing another woman in particular)


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have no idea what you are saying so please explain all the acronyms.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Manfromlamancha: Those acronyms refer to the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator. If you google it, you'll find that it's a long quiz of sorts that helps you analyze your personality type and from there can help show you what types you are compatible with or will conflict with the most.


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## Beacon of Hope (Oct 30, 2013)

> I'm confused as to what you are really looking for here.


My first post was perhaps content without purpose, and I apologize for that...

I am seeking additional opinions whether her actions are:
1) Correctable (at this point after three MC's over two years)?
2) A product of her upbringing, or malice?
3) If love (i.e. the release of oxytocin in the pituitary gland, leaving an impression on the hippocampus) is likely to ever exist here. Can one go from 14 years of charity case to love?

Regarding my fidelity, it is 100% pure, these decisions are to be made regardless of prospects five years from now, I have never interacted with another.

Regarding personality types... 
ESFJ (her)= emotional, people pleaser, moral chameleon.

INTJ (me)= Quiet thinker, very resolved on what is right/wrong, has a complex path or thought for seemingly simple things in life. Emotionally stable or mellow.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> Manfromlamancha: Those acronyms refer to the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator. If you google it, you'll find that it's a long quiz of sorts that helps you analyze your personality type and from there can help show you what types you are compatible with or will conflict with the most.


Thanks - actually had Myers Briggs personalities done for all the execs (including me) in my company but it came out with colours etc. - red blue yellow green etc. but I get the idea. Cheers.


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## IndecisionIsTorture (Oct 9, 2013)

Beacon of Hope said:


> I am seeking additional opinions whether her actions are:
> 1) Correctable (at this point after three MC's over two years)?
> 2) A product of her upbringing, or malice?
> 3) If love (i.e. the release of oxytocin in the pituitary gland, leaving an impression on the hippocampus) is likely to ever exist here. Can one go from 14 years of charity case to love?


1) No.
2) I don't see why it matters.
3) No.


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