# Trust issues, 2 years after an EA



## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

My H had an EA just over two years ago. It lasted a couple of months. We reconciled but there was no heavy lifting on his part. I guess you can call it rug-sweeping. I have had a bitterness in my heart this whole time.

Separately, my H, a lawyer, worked closely with another female lawyer, now a local judge (btw, she is married). There was never a full blown EA with this judge, but certainly a flirtation between my H and her. I observed it myself, and he knew I was not happy with him hanging around her. He accused me of being too sensitive, and in not so many words told me it was good for his career to maintain contact with this judge. However, given his history of letting flirtation go too far (hence the EA two years ago, with a woman who was also a lawyer), I still am not comfortable if he sees this judge woman.

Last week, I saw on his phone that he had emailed the judge woman and wanted to get together for lunch. That lunch is today. He never told me about it, but he knows I have access to his phone and can read his emails. Last night, he kept asking me if something was wrong (I must have looked tense), and he kept giving me a knowing look, waiting for me to admit I had looked at his phone. I said no, nothing's wrong. 

I don't want him to accuse me of trying to hurt his career by somehow forbidding him to have lunch with the judge. The truth is, the judge never did anything wrong, unlike the EA partner from two years ago, unless you count flirting back with my husband. One time in an email she had said to him "I hope a ****tail together is in our near future!" This was more than a year ago though. The emails surrounding the lunch today were a bit more straightforward and less flirty.

Am I wrong, too sensitive, or too oppressive to not want him to have lunch with someone he has had a mutual flirtation with? Especially given his history of having a full blown EA that he almost left me over?


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I don't think so. My H was flirting with someone like that & we had several arguments over it. Then 3 months ago I found out it led to a 6 month PA. If you're uncomfortable with it he should respect your feeling & back off.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm not buying his story that it's good for his career to maintain contact with this judge. 

And, no, I wouldn't be happy he was having lunch with someone he had flirted with. Let's say they got cozy and then he had to try a case before her (or whatever professional contact they would have) and the other side found out how cozy they were. Can you imagine what a mess that would be?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

And this is the reason why you don't trust him. He sounds good at manipulation. Since your on here questioning it, he must of used twisted logic. Open is right, if people knew about their flirting, issues could arise. You need to figure out what your going to do, and make a plan for it. I often suggest detaching to see the clearer picture. Love and emotions will cloud good judgement. They will always make things seem more optimistic, or more pessemistic.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

should I confront him when he comes home from work?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Yes, you have a right to be concerned and have trust issues. 

That said, attorneys spend a lot of time with judges for a variety of reasons. Most of them good.

My best advice is to just closely monitor the situation and see if he crosses the line.

I also suggest maybe some counseling and see if it helps you with coping skills.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Update: I did confront him when he came home. He said he did not have to tell me he was having lunch with the judge because he knew that I had already gathered that information from looking at his phone.

I told him he knows how I feel about the judge because they have had a flirtatious relationship in the past. He told me to name one time when they've been flirtatious. I told him that 1) I had seen her openly cozy up to him at a dinner party, with him playing along and that 2) I had read an email he wrote to her a couple of years ago, ahead of a dinner party at our house, in which he wrote "maybe we can steal a few moments away when no one's looking." He had written this in the context of discussing a legal matter that she thought would be boring to raise in front of others, but the wording was nonetheless suggestive.

When I mentioned that email of his, it seemed to quiet him, for a day or so. He claimed to not have remembered even writing it. He also told me that their lunch was completely professional and there was no flirting. I told him I believed him about that, and my hang-up was over past flirting, plus the fact that he never actually told me about their lunch.

Now here's the kicker. Two days have gone by and he has had time to stew. He probably feels like I got him on the fact that he had written a lecherous email. All this in addition to the unspoken huge reality that in the meantime (between that email and now), he had an EA with a different lawyer. I found out about all that by looking at his emails as well.

Well, after two days of stewing, he's now on the offensive about how I want to keep him in a box and insist on monitoring his electronic communications. I told him of course, if he wanted to stay married to me after that EA incident, at a minimum I need open access to his emails.

I came home from work early today because our son was not feeling well. H was here with our son. Separately, H has been looking at possible real estate investment opportunities for us. All of a sudden, when I return from work, he springs on me that we should move (within our area) to take advantage of a better possible real estate investment. I am dismissive of this, telling him we discussed possible investment properties (with renters), but not moving ourselves. This would be a huge upheaval for our son with moving schools, etc. 

He then throws that in my face about how I'm too dismissive, never give him any credit, put him down, etc. In my mind, I'm thinking that this real estate crap came out of nowhere, and it's his way of trying to have something to hold over me after I revealed to him that I had seen that suggestive email that he had written to the judge. In his outlandish, dramatic, outburst-ish way, he told me he doesn't think we're "pulling in the same direction" and that if I'm going to be that dismissive of his desire for us to move, then that's proof he doesn't even want to be with me. 

He just left for a state car inspection. I honestly don't know if he even wants to be married any more. Or if I do. 

If you are still reading, I'd appreciate any advice/feedback. Sorry for the rant. I'm not doing too well here.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.

But, before that maybe you could schedule some time to talk specifically about how you're both feeling?

Be firm and ask for an hour "no holds barred", "cards on the table" talk about why you *both* feel like you do. Present evidence in a reasonable but firm way.

See what he does and how he reacts. He might have his own frustrations and side to put forward.

Without this you could both be wanting the same thing (a marriage, to each other), but miscommunication could wreck it all.

Good luck and keep posting.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks Chris989. I do think we need this kind of talk. I tried it earlier this afternoon before he left for the car inspection. He seemed to be just "over it" with me. Part of me thinks I should just be over it with him too. He betrayed me by having an emotional affair two years ago. He told that other woman that there were problems in his marriage and that he was attracted to her. He lied to me several times about his supposed cessation of contact with her after my initial DD. A month later I listened to a voicemail from her on his phone. That was DD number two. Clearly I still have issues from all that. It was two years ago. 

Is all this just me? Am I being too sensitive because I have been betrayed?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

*Please Help: Trust issues, 2 years after an EA*

Sorry to sound desperate, but that I am. Sinking fast folks. I would appreciate a sound reality if this is all in my head or whether I have a legitimate grievance. My husband about seems ready to leave me I think he does not like to be held accountable.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi, you aren't being over sensitive - but you might be throwing things away in your hurt.

He is "ready to leave you" because he wants the problem to go away. He is playing a game of "chicken" with your marriage and none of us know at this point when he will stop.

Get a plan together. Ask him for some time in a few days so it is neither immediate nor threatening.

Tell him you just would like to talk.

Park your feelings if you can in the meantime.

You both need that talk - make that your number one priority.

God knows we all appreciate how difficult this is and all you want to do is seek a resolution but patience here is key.

Stay strong. Many of us have been through this.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Unless I missed it. It seems like you or him or the both of you never went to any sort of counseling and/or therapy.. 

What I will tell you being on the end of several EA's and finally a PA. 2 years of having issues over a EA is long. 

But in turn he isn't doing much on his end to make you feel comfortable as well. So he is actually hindering your healing by doing things to trigger the past.. 

The other issue is he is openingly telling you he is done.. I don't know him so I don't know if he is just upset and talking out of his a$$ with bravado or meaning it.. Only you know for sure. 

I know my GirlFriend talks like that via text but in person she crumbles when I call her out on this stuff. So I know when the GF is just upset and saying stupid stuff or she means it.. She cut me loose in person and I knew that day she meant it.. I treated her poorly in front of my kids and I shouldn't have.. 

I don't think you both can sit down and just be honest without fighting.. I think you need a neutral party like a good therapist or counselor to call either of you out when your off base and just saying Sh!t to say it because your p!ssed off and just want to hurt each other.

I understand it was an EA but is this and only this the thing that is destroying this marriage ?.. It seems there is more here missing than the issues of an EA from 2 years ago and such..

As an example me and my Ex wife had sex 2 to 3 times a week. She played a very good game with me of not knowing about the affair this time around because the first few times she learned her lesson because she clearly became distant and cut off sex or tapered off dramatically. 

So with the affair she knew she had to keep up appearances until she decided she could leave. So I got strung along for a fake reconciliation as well for 3 months and 3500 in therapy fees.

House moving.. I don't trust it.. If he is looking for a divorce he could be looking to lower his money value some how.. Basically tie it up in a house and then say it needs to be sold and split the money.. Thus the money goes back to him. 

This current house might be paid off so he knows you would get the house plus half the liquid money. Buying a new home at least he gets a bit more back on the potential resale, who knows.. 

Again I simply wouldn't move until you really know he isn't BSing you.. I wouldn't move for at least 12 to 16 months assuming things worked out.. Again he could fake it for 4 to 6 months just to get whatever scam he is cooking up to work.

I don't see what this judge could do for him.. Unless its to appoint him to some sort of job with the courts ? Its not like she could do anything favorable for him or give the impression of such.. They would or could both get locked up.. Even being accused of something would hurt them both because it would be on their records.. Though I get what he slightly is saying, but I would clearly want to know why or how its important.. 

Look to me nothing was more important than my Ex wife and my marriage.. I would have done ANYTHING to save my marriage and my family.. I would have moved and was going to, to save my family.. I was lucky I didn't because it would have been a disaster for me.. I would more likely have been alone in a new state with no friends when my wife decided to leave me. 

So for him to comment as to cut you loose is a bit strong and in turn you saying the same is as well. 

Again it seems you both lost your love long before this EA..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He accused you of being too sensitive?  

After what he put you through?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Wow, a judge and a lawyer up on Cheaterville.com after this escalates...


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

totalfive21 said:


> My H had an EA just over two years ago. It lasted a couple of months. We reconciled but there was no heavy lifting on his part. I guess you can call it rug-sweeping. I have had a bitterness in my heart this whole time.
> 
> *Separately, my H, a lawyer, worked closely with another female lawyer, now a local judge (btw, she is married). There was never a full blown EA with this judge, but certainly a flirtation between my H and her. I observed it myself, and he knew I was not happy with him hanging around her. He accused me of being too sensitive, and in not so many words told me it was good for his career to maintain contact with this judge. However, given his history of letting flirtation go too far (hence the EA two years ago, with a woman who was also a lawyer), I still am not comfortable if he sees this judge woman.*
> 
> ...


Dear totalfive21,

No, you are not being _"too sensitive."_ Your concerns are perfectly justified and you have every right to expect him to (1) be honest with you and (2) maintain proper marital boundaries.

I don't know if your marriage is irredeemable or not but my guess is that, if things keep going the way they are going, it eventually will be. So you need to take action now.

I suggest you propose marriage counseling to your H. If he agrees, do it. If he refuses, consult with a good divorce attorney.

My guess is that your H is not going to take your concerns seriously unless and until he realizes that you will not tolerate his current behavior.

Hope this helps.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Total,
First and foremost you need to decide what you want. "I don't know if he is done with me or if I should be done with him" is indecisive and unclear. What do you want to do, save the marriage or end it?

Understandably, you harbor resentment from the past that was never dealt with and it is eating at you, influencing your thought process negatively. There could be truth in the fact that a business relationship with a judge may indeed enhance you H's career but what of his marriage?

He rugswept the last EA and you allowed it, so to him his behavior is not a big deal. His level of empathy, like most people who cheat, is quite low. It is therefore up to you to make him "feel" it so he can get the severity of what he has done to you and your family. Actions that do not have consequences are easily repeated.

My best advice is to decide what you want and then implement a plan to accomplish your goal. Plenty of info is available here to do either. Good luck to you.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Chances are, you'd be coping better with the 2yo EA if he weren't repeating the behaviour that led to it.

Plenty of EAs and PAs start with harmless flirting then progress to bìtching about the spouse(s). All it takes then is a sympathetic ear, willingness and opportunity, and the EA/PA will be up and running for those who won't resist the opportunity.

He's repeating what he did before,, charming or smarming other women. You're fighting, giving him stuff to bìtch about. The only missing piece is a sympathetic, available ear and hello EA2.

He's done nothing to change his behaviour or, seemingly his attitude. Just expects you to take him at his word. Why would you?

Sure lawyers have to play politics sometimes,, but so do people who work in Walmart and want a supervisor position. Where are the lunches with males who can help his career? Despite the progress of women over the last 30 years, most law firms are still male dominated hierarchies.

I struggle to buy the "my career" argument. All he need do is smarm her when he sees her in a work-related setting. Politics aside,, the key to promotions for lawyers and most people is results.

There's an insipid sense of entitlement among the 'successful'. Morally, they're no better, sometimes worse, than the minimum waged. No more reason to trust a married judge with your hubby than a married waitress. Having "important matters to discuss" just makes it easier for them to have dinners and lunches together.

That whole "my career" argument is questionable. Really, he could become President but what's the achievement if his wife is miserable?

Furthermore, if he's moving into social circles, isn't (the appearance of) a happy marriage the 'right image' for lofty positions? If so, you should be as important to him as his charmings and swarmings. More so, because you're his wife and he's supposed to love you and want you to be happy.

Everything you say about him flags 'self-centred, entitled bùrk' who just wants you to put up and shut up while he persues his fabulous career. He's even trying to manipulate you with threats now.

You're right to be concerned cuz he's showing no willingness to change. If you stay, I suspect you'll have to put up with his inconsiderate oafery for a lifetime. Your happiness should be as, or more, important to him than his career.

It can get awful lonely in a big, isolated mansion. Maybe you'd be happy with a decent, 9 - 5 plumber in a small apartment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Hardtohandle said:


> Unless I missed it. It seems like you or him or the both of you never went to any sort of counseling and/or therapy..
> 
> What I will tell you being on the end of several EA's and finally a PA. 2 years of having issues over a EA is long.
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone for reading and the supportive advice so far. HardtoHandle, you are right that there is (or at least was) more going on than just the EA. When our son, now 9, was a baby and a toddler, my H was basically emotionally abusive with me as he felt my care of our child was inadequate. Nothing I did was good enough in his mind. Our son was quite dramatic and cried often anyway, and somehow it was always my fault if he were sick or upset. That situation improved once our son could talk and articulate his needs, but I am resentful over that period.

After the EA two years ago, H claimed that I had been cold toward him for years. Honestly this wasn't true, just dramatism and blame-shifting on his part, but of course I had been hurt by all his abuse. At one point I did tell him that the reason I didn't want to have another child was his reactions/overreactions to everything with our first. Guess he held that against me.

In response to everyone's wise advice for counseling, I asked him to go after the EA, but he refused, saying that he doesn't believe in therapy and that most therapists perpetuate the problems. I went alone for a few sessions but then stopped. I agree the right therapist may at least h


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

When people tell you and show you who they are, you have to assume they're right. What your husband is telling you is that he can't be transparent with his communications and remaim married because you couldn't possibly tolerate what you saw.

Nothing ou have written about him indicates he is a "stand up" guy.

The sooner you move on the sooner you can find a good man to be a husband. What you have now is just a pretend marriage for appearances on his side. You don't even sound like friends at this point.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

totalfive21 said:


> . . . In response to everyone's wise advice for counseling, I asked him to go after the EA, but he refused, saying that he doesn't believe in therapy and that most therapists perpetuate the problems. I went alone for a few sessions but then stopped. I agree the right therapist may at least h


totalfive21, have you considered giving him an ultimatum -- marriage counseling or divorce?


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Carmen,

I have not presented an ultimatum like that. Two years ago, right after the discovery of the EA, I said we needed it, but not as an ultimatum. I guess in the overwhelming emotions for me, of feeling like I could lose him, I didn't want to push it. However wrong that was of me at the time. 

I did ask the therapist I saw by myself if it's possible for us as a couple to recover without marriage counseling. She said only with constant attention to the marriage on his part. That's hard to define, for sure, especially for a H who's a lawyer and works 60 or so hours per week. He did/does make me feel loved, notwithstanding the incident described in this original post.

Part of the reason I didn't push counseling with him is that I'm not convinced myself that all marriage counselors help improve the situation. Much of what I've read here on TAM confirms that too.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

totalfive21 said:


> Carmen,
> 
> I have not presented an ultimatum like that. Two years ago, right after the discovery of the EA, I said we needed it, but not as an ultimatum. I guess in the overwhelming emotions for me, of feeling like I could lose him, I didn't want to push it. However wrong that was of me at the time.
> 
> ...


I think the biggest problem is not the lack of counseling necessarily, but rather the rugsweeping that occurred. At this point, you need to take decisive, firm action. I think you should start by reading "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Glass and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" (& then pass it on to him).

I'm really sorry that you're here. It sucks. Keep reading and writing and talking to your therapist, and know that you deserve better from your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

totalfive21 said:


> carmen,
> 
> I have not presented an ultimatum like that. Two years ago, right after the discovery of the ea, i said we needed it, but not as an ultimatum. I guess in the overwhelming emotions for me, of feeling like i could lose him, i didn't want to push it. However wrong that was of me at the time.
> 
> ...





> Originally Posted by *dignityhonorpride*
> 
> _I think the biggest problem is not the lack of counseling necessarily, but rather the rugsweeping that occurred. At this point, you need to take decisive, firm action. I think you should start by reading "not just friends" by dr. Glass and "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" (& then pass it on to him).
> 
> I'm really sorry that you're here. It sucks. Keep reading and writing and talking to your therapist, and know that you deserve better from your husband._


totalfive21,

I agree that one must be careful in choosing a marriage counselor.

My suggestion stems mainly from the same concern as expressed by dhp, namely, that your WH is attempting to rugsweep this and therefore that _"decisive, firm action"_ is in order. Insisting on marriage counseling would be one way of accomplishing this.

Of course, another would be to file for divorce (with the intention of withdrawing it if he started to do what is required for real reconciliation) and I would have suggested that (it's what I would do in your situation) except I gather from what you've said here that you would not be willing to take such a bold step.


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