# Learning to settle for less



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

After several years of trying to fix a failing relationship, I have come to some conclusions:

He only wants a caring, light, friendly kind of relationship. No romance, no commitment, no emotional responsibility for another person (his words)

I want romance, sex, love, commitment - what i call a "real" relationship.

We dated for six glorious months, talking for five hours a day every day on the phone, sex almost every weekend (more if we could get it, but we lived 80 miles apart), best friends, lovers everything getting better and better over the six months. It was romantic, caring, fun, love... everything I ever wanted. He said it was the best thing for him too. I could tell him anything and be myself around him and he seemed to love me.

Then he moved in and got into a routine of taking me for granted and ignoring me. I don't do well at all with rejection. We started arguing about everything, me feeling neglected and him feeling pressured. I didn't understand what was going on, he didn't want to tell me that moving in was not what he really wanted.

He asked me to marry him a while later. I accepted. He never did get me a ring, tho. He asked me to pick a date. I finally did about a year later. To which he answered - you can't possibly think we are getting married now??

I guess I didn't get the memo the engagement was off.

Did i mention I don't do well with rejection?

He gave me an ultimatum that if we didn't stop arguing, he was going to leave. I changed myself so that we didn't argue much anymore. We also stopped talking, dating having sex and being close. I was and still am walking on eggshells all the time. Most days I cry myself to sleep and i'm up at 2am so upset, angry hurt and rejected I can't sleep.

Then we tried MB. That didn't work as he didn't like the ideas. He said I was being controlling and manipulative if I wanted us to work for a committed relationship. I thought he was being controlling by saying "my way or the highway", which is still the rules we operate under today. He gets exactly what he wants, I put up with it. 

What does that look like?

He gets up in the morning and goes to work. He may or may not call me to ask some logistical thing. He may or may not stop off at friends houses before he comes home. He arrives anywhere between 5-10pm. He gets his own coffee and such. 

He is very happy, playful and energetic around the kids, but if I come in the room, he's suddenly exhausted and wants to go to bed early.

He will greet me when he gets home with 'how was your day' and we talk about our day, but without any hugs or kisses or affection. 

Dates consist of us going over to his friends house to watch a MMA fight every few weeks on Saturday. We make food (it's potluck) and go over as a 'couple'. There are usually about 20 people there. He sits and plays cards with the boys while I sit and do work on my ipod. He acts like it's a date at those times saying things to his friends like "your puppy is sitting on *my woman*" and complimenting me. (your tits look great in that shirt) He will ask me if I need anything like a soda but if i say yes he will forget to get it. If I walk by his chair he will put out his arm and give me a half hearted hug.

What hurts the most is he never compliments me otherwise. I could dance naked with a rose in my teeth in front of him and he'd tell me i was blocking the TV. I was really depressed about it for years and I still am. It was only a few weeks ago, when I started getting compliments from a co-worker that i realized maybe i wasn't totally horrible and might even be worthy of a compliment or two. 

He tells the kids we are just friends, but introduces us in public as man and wife. I don't understand that at all. 

When we do talk, we don't talk other than to discuss logistics. Dinner, fixing cars, money, kids. 

Nights he goes to bed and often asks me if I'm coming to bed also. If I do, he simply tells me good night dear and gives me a peck, rolls over and reads his book before he falls asleep. There is no affection or sex at all  If I say I want to stay up, he will either look sad (why??) or tell me he's worried about my health and wishes I would get more sleep.

He used to ask me to tickle his back which he loves. But never offered to do anything for me. I quit doing it. He didn't complain or ask why or anything.

Last night I just touched his back. He thought i was going to tickle it. He said "don't start that unless you intend to spend hours doing it" I said that maybe if I got a few minutes of snuggling to charge up my batteries I might be able to do it. He said, "ok, i guess i can do that" he kind of held me for a bit, you could tell he wasn't really into it. But at the very end, for a few seconds he held me like he meant it. You could also tell it was a conscious decision on his part to be caring and romantic. 

He doesn't lose his temper, he plays with the kids, especially the baby. He helps out by doing laundry and cleaning the attic or garage once in a while. He's not critical of anything.

We are having money problems (may lose everything in a month or so, house, etc) and he says he doesn't know if he'll be around if I lose the house (it's in my name) so I have no hope of stability.

He is supposed to be helping pay the bills - putting in 300 a week from his job. but he doesn't. We had a problem with him overdrawing his account - 770 in overdraft fees in two months!! which I bailed him out of. It's a joint account, so i'm responsible for this too. He then said he would just take his 'allowance' out every week and I could have the rest for bills. But he's taking out more. He's never offered to pay back the overdraft fees either.

He has told me he's not jealous and thinks jealousy is a sick emotion. He doesn't care if other men flirt with me. He only flirts with other women if i'm not around. If I dress up nicely for him, he laughs and makes fun of me. If I try and be romantic or sexual he is simply graciously passively accepting of it. I'll write a sweet sexy note and he'll say 'thank you dear' and I'll find it discarded the next day. If I send him sexy text messages he says he never got them (they are still on his phone, read, and he gets every other messages from his friends) He never initiates any romance, passion or sex on his own. If we do have sex, it's only a few minutes, no foreplay and over when he is. I have to ask for anything else, and sometimes he'll give it to me, but hardly ever offer.

He says he likes how hard I'm working on the relationship. He says he wants us to be close. He says he is trying to be positive. But I'm not seeing reciprocation. 

He suggests that I go find other men if I need sex 'that badly'. 
To date I haven't, but I'm getting really close to just going ahead and doing it. I am convinced that he just wants me to 'fall' first so I can be painted as the bad guy to his friends and he won't lose face when he is then allowed to date because i "cheated" on him.

When asked, he swears he doesn't want anyone else, he just doesn't want me either. He says he's not going to date even if I do. I don't believe him.

I have tried marriage counseling. Six months with Steve Harley. He would say everything positive in sessions, but never did any of the homework. Steve eventually told me that his heart wasn't in it and he was just giving our relationship lip service. 

I have talked, written letters, done counseling, done marriage fitness (or tried to) been sweet and romantic, etc. 

If I really push hard, he would give me hugs, spend time with me in the evenings and was even starting to tell me he loved me. We were doing the marriage fitness program together (he said MB was BS and didn't want to do it as _he has NO emotional needs_) and I thought we were really making progress. Then I found out one night he never wants to be closer and the most he wants is for us to be good friends. I was devastated and said that I didn't see any reason for us to be spending time together or working on a marriage if there wasn't ever going to be one. In retrospect that was probably stupid of me to do that. He had been making progress, just not reciprocal progress.

I got pretty angry and kicked him out of the bed for two nights. He was then finally flirty and cute. But when he asked if he could come back and I said he would have to make up his mind what he wanted, he simply went back to his ignoring me ways. 

He doesn't yell, he doesn't hit. He doesn't drink or have expensive habits other than smoking cigarettes. He is nice to the six kids (especially his and ours and not overtly mean to mine) He seems on occasion genuinely interested in me being happy, but unwilling to do anything other than be distantly kind to get it. 

I vacillate between wanting a REAL marriage - romance, love, tenderness, flirting, dates, sex - and realizing that things aren't all THAT bad and thinking I'm just asking for too much.

Perhaps he is right and I'm just being juvenile in expecting more? He says that the honeymoon phase is over and I'm stupid to expect it to come back or to even want it. I should just accept him as he is and be happy with it.

How do you change your perceptions to live with less than your heart wants and act happy about it?

I realize if I was like him, I would be happy. Just roommates, role mates, co parents and nothing more. . I just don’t know how to change myself so I can be happy with so much less than I dreamed of.


----------



## daddymikey1975 (Apr 18, 2009)

don't change yourself. he's just not that into you anymore.

its absurd to expect the honeymoon effect to be gone forever 

it comes and goes... once it's gone, marriages fall into a rut.. 

keeping it alive is the hard part once it first goes cuz we've asked all the questions required to get to know each other etc.. the time for settling in is upon us.. problem is, by the time we notice it's gone, it's usually too late.

if we recognize that it's gone, and actively pursue it, and make it a part of our lives to cherish each other the honeymoon effect can stay for quite some time but it takes HARD work and dedication.

DON'T SETTLE... separate yourself from him, or tell him to hit the bricks and tell him you need some space to figure out what you want to do. See if he misses you and courts you again.. but don't wait for him. keep that door open, don't date anyone else, mostly concentrate on you and your children's happiness. 

Allow him to remain in your life.. accept his motions forward (if any) and if you feel like it, but grow a backbone and search for what makes you happy. most importantly DON'T SETTLE

mike


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I know what makes me happy. At least I have that. he says he doesn't know what makes him happy. Frankly I think that's a cop out and he does know, he just doesn't want to tell me.

How do I allow him to remain in my life, accept his motions forward and still grow a backbone and set limits? what do those limits look like anyway?

I have removed everything except us sleeping together. He didn't care when we no longer had sex, he doesn't care I'm not doing things for him anymore (that was really hard for me!) he doesn't care that I'm not affectionate, romantic or giving.

In fact he seems relieved that I'm no longer sexual, romantic or affectionate.


----------



## martino (May 12, 2008)

Snix,

I think I can relate to how you are feeling as I have had problems with my own wife that are somewhat similar but not near the severity of your's. I know the dance is to get frustrated and pull back yourself. Problem is i've learned that that often doesn't work. My wife is 100% left brained, a logical thinker plans everything always cool on the exterior. Some people have no need for emotions and deep conversations and connection. I learned this was ok when crawling through her emails I noticed that she keeps a safe distance from her friends too. Some people are just that way. I chose to stay, but it sounds like you are ready to walk? you can only choose to stay or leave, he won't change. listen to some Lou Reed albums that always helps. (kidding) 

-Martino


----------



## daddymikey1975 (Apr 18, 2009)

snix11 said:


> Frankly I think that's a cop out and he does know, he just doesn't want to tell me.
> 
> *This is exactly correct. Guys are wired differently and speak a different language than women do. I recommend Men are from Mars and women are from venus.. this will enlighten you as to how to communicate with him. If you can find a seminar in your area, i recommend you both attend. it will awaken him as well.*
> 
> ...


I hope this helps.. there were too many points to ponder lol..

mike


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

snix-
I've typed my heart out to you already. Why to you allow such abuse to go on?


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

No - thanks mike. In fact, that's exactly what i did for all of February 2009! loving, kind, giving, wonderful, sexy, etc etc etc. 

Kept giving even tho i didn't get back. Here's the thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/3924-february-month-o-love.html

What changed? He was nicer. Seemed happy. Accepted my love and affection and etc graciously like it was his due. Did not reciprocate but 'allowed' me to love him. Told himself that I needed to love, so let her. Did not think to give back.

At the end of the month, he did agree to some changes. He said he would tell me he loved me more (he did) he said he would be more positive (not that i saw) he said he would be more affectionate (he was for a few days) but what was missing was him being the MAN. initiating flirting, sex, compliments, fun, roughousing etc. All the things he did before that i loved!

Taking the lead in the relationship. That's all I wanted. I can give as good as I get - love, sex, affection, hard work. But I can only keep up the one sided giving for so long. I need him to take the lead. woo me, romance me, treat me like a woman and not a thing. 
Even if it's a thing he cares about, i'm still looked at as a sexless being, not a woman.


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

I know Mark, and I DO appreciate it. 

But think hard, what would you REALLY do if your wife suddenly rejected you. wouldn't you try EVERYTHING to fix it? to get back to sex and love? would you really just give up and throw in the towel? To not want to give up even when it looked impossible?

He doesn't see it as abuse. He sees it as a caring relationship that I'm c


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Snix,

You are joining the 78% in unhappy marriage population.

The numbers are staggering.


----------



## daddymikey1975 (Apr 18, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> snix-
> ....Why to you allow such abuse to go on?


Mark hit the nail on the head...


----------



## gurusavlis (Apr 22, 2009)

Time to move on.... love yourself and live your life... one of you has to be honest... and it may as well be you.. afterall, you're the one who's talked openly searching for an answer... you recognise that your companion no longer sees you as he did.

Tears and angst aside... it's a positive change for you.. now you can concentrate on what's important... and that has to be you first.. because if you go down.. anyone else who depends upon you - goes down too!

Have a good life -


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

A long hard look at myself told me i'm NOT willing to be nice and loving and caring and romantic for another six years or even another six MONTHS without equal reciprocation.

We had 'the talk' last night. and what a talk.

it's only the second time in three year's Ive seen him cry.

He admitted he didn't want to live in limbo either.
He admitted he was scared to love because he might get hurt.
He stated that he had been waiting for a sign from god on what he should do but it seemed that god had turned away from him.
(long story there, he's not Christian, but does have a deity of sorts (FSM) and was raised a strict Methodist - he's also Lakota and puts lots of store in the rituals)

We went over the time line - marry me, oh heck no i'm not going to marry you NOW, telling people we are married in public but not in private. I said I can't live like that.

He tried to get away with 'I feel we are married but without all the hoopla and stated commitment' I said that wasn't good enough.

We did decide we needed a change. I asked him to pick a direction for our relationship to go - he didn't want to, asked me to give him some choices.

So i did

1. He moves out, we co-parent the baby, stay friends but lead separate lives. He says he won't have another relationship, I said I wanted to be married and hope I find someone to love and cherish as my husband for the rest of my life. That I hope it's him, but that decision will be his.

2. We stay as role mates, but he moves out of the bedroom and takes up residence downstairs. We date other people.

3. We get married and commit to being lovers, freinds and meeting EN's. we make a promise to never let our love fall to caring but keep up the romance. His concession to that was a pagan "as long as love shall last" rather than "till death do us part" I can live with that.

4. We become soulmates, waterbrothers (Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange land) total trust, love, honesty. promise to be with each other for eternity. much more commitment and such.

I described it as - out the door, across the state, colorado or Mars. He needs to decide how far he wants to go.

He, get this, wanted to ROLL A DICE to determine which one to pick!

But even he saw that was rather childish and silly.

He quoted Peter pan saying "but that's scary grown up stuff", making decisions rather than letting fate decide.

Yeah, peter it is 

In lieu of the dice deciding, he agreed to go on a vision quest, Indian style to determine what he wanted from us.

In the mean time, and because I *KNOW *this man so well, I said we needed an interim way of acting. He said he would do the quest on Friday but if he doesn't, or puts it off i didn't want to be in limbo any more.

So we agreed that for the next few days, or whenever he takes his quest, we would act as if we were in a committed loving relationship.

Win win for me.

And, boom. that's all it took. we made love, he held me in his arms and we fell asleep holding hands. he even sang in his sleep.

This morning he cuddled me awake (which he hasn't done since we were dating) and was very nice and loving.

He did say that he wanted to use the dice because he didn't want the responsibility of the decision of what to do about us. But then realized that this was too big of a decision to leave to chance.

So, we'll see.

I'm ok with any of the choices, tho number 2 won't be permanent.

interesting night.


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Congratulations, Snix! 

It's been a long hard road and I'm glad to be seeing progress! 

I sincerely hopes he doesn't use the dice! This is too big a decision to leave to chance. It must be a conscious choice.


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dcrm, I totally agree. 

because no matter what the dice choose, i'd never know what's in his heart. 

I could have picked only the choices I wanted, but I didn't think that would be fair. Plus I would never know if he would have chosen me. 

How's the ozarks? I miss boating and skiing near bagnal dam.


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Well, they're warming up quite nicely. 

I travel for my company and get to see a lot of it. I was in KC last week, this week Joplin and Branson (Yakov's theater no less!) and next week I go to Daytona Beach, the week after that to Houston. 

I've been to the lakes a few times, but not recently. And I've never skiied. Not afraid to, just never had the chance.


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

wow, you travel quite a bit! 

If you ever get to san antonio, look us up - we'll take you to the riverwalk


----------



## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I'll try to remember that.  I don't have anythiing coming up down that way in the forseeable future.


----------



## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

That sounds like a lot to deal with. I don't blame you for wanting what you do - it sounds like a 'real' relationship to me as well.

I hope that things turn out for the best and you're happy.


----------



## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

me too nightshade. 

Last night he came home and was the 'same' as usual. not overly kind, not overly mean. I pretty much 'made' him give me some good hugs, not the one armed ones he likes to give. 

I asked him what he wanted to do that night - as usual he said he didn't know and what did i want to do. I said - oh, play games, take a shower together, give each other backrubs, snuggle, talk. 

He suggested we go up in the treehouse. I said ok. We took music (my ipod) and listened to the top 100 reggae songs. He seemed companionable, but rather distant. I didn't want that. 

So i initiated a making out session. At first he seemed scared or standoffish. I think he was self conscious about his teeth (silly man)

when we met he had bad teeth, and over the last year he's gotten dentures. He didn't have them in last night (sometimes he wears them, sometimes not) He didn't say anything about it though. 

So it was either him being self conscious or him not liking what i did or....? I told him how much i miss kissing him (one of my favorite things) but he didn't say anything back. He kissed me back a little but, but not much. 

Not sure what to make of that, I'll ask him tonight. I took one of the kids to the store when we came down from the treehouse - he was asleep by the time I got back (945pm). 

This morning he didn't say anything before he got up and left. 

sigh....


----------

