# Issues leading to surgery



## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Hello everyone, 

I feel we have made progress in our relationship but still have a sticking point when it comes to intimacy. She has been having pain during sex since our third child was born. I finally convinced her to see her OB/GYN and he said that scar tissue internally from the C-sections was the cause. However, once he did surgery he said that he was only able to fix about 30% of the problem. The only way to completely solve the problem would be a hysterectomy. 

We have had a talk and I explained to her that I know it is not an easy decision for her and that I will not force her into anything. I have also explained to her that I do not enjoy the sex if it is obvious she is uncomfortable with it. Finally, I have told her that I am fine with other options (BJ/HJ) and also other more pleasurable options for her. She is not open to anything right now. 

Is there anything I can do to help the situation or is time the only thing that will help?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Unfortunately we live in a society that tends to tell women that the ideal sexual model men desire is an insatiable porn star that can perform beyond your expectations and become immediately orgasmic upon penetration. Not realizing that all porn is fake, women tend to feel broken because this model of sexuality seems so different than how things are in the marital bed. 

Add to that virtually all women feel overweight and ugly due to all the health/fitness/beauty supplies that are aggressively marketed to them. 

Over 90% of women that feel broken sexually never come to realize that they are perfectly healthy. Usually they seek hormone replacement therapy or await the "female viagra" that will magically fix everything so that they can become an insatiable starlet in the bedroom for their husbands. 

So now in your case, it appears you have complained about the quality of intimacy that she can provide for you, and you even pushed her to go to the doctor. Then her worst fears were just confirmed. The doctor told her that she is indeed broken and that the only way to fix it is to remove the part of her that helped create your family. 

Imagine for a moment that you suffered pain in your penis every time your wife wanted to be intimate and she complained endlessly that the sex in your marriage was just not enough for her, nor was it anywhere near satisfying for her to be able to enjoy. Imagine her really frustrated over this and she demanding you go see a doctor. You go to the doctor to find out that your left testicle had a blow out when you conceived your third child and that the doctor recommends for your scrotum be removed along with both testicles. Your wife still pouts, but as a consolation she tells you that you can just give her oral sex and that she might be OK with that for a while.... Try to wrap your head around how you would feel if you were in that situation and what it would take from your wife to make you feel better. 

You've painted yourself into a pretty shîtty corner my brother. You are going to have to accept that is is going to get messy and that man up and do what ever it takes to make her feel loved. Let her know that you will take responsibility for your own happiness so that you can share that with her instead of expecting her to do it for you. Let her know that being intimate is not about you having to have an orgasm nor is it about you trying to force her to have one and make her enjoy it. 

Sometimes intimacy is no more than a loving and caring argument between spouses. 

Sometimes intimacy is a back rub until one person falls a sleep.

Sometimes intimacy is just knowing that your spouse loves you even though you can't be together at that moment.

Sometimes intimacy is feeling that nothing is expected of you and that you are loved just the way you are.

Sometimes intimacy is playful.

Sometimes intimacy is not.

Always with real intimacy you find love, and love can be extremely difficult to recognize as in comes to us in many different forms. If you need to test love and make sure it is real, you always can because it is unconditional, enduring, and patient.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I somewhat agree with badsanta, but your needs absolutely matter too. Sex is often the glue that holds a marriage together - well, at least those that aren't dysfunctional, IMO. After three children, a hysterectomy isn't a horrible idea if it will solve the problems and restore intimacy to the relationship. Of course, she may be using this as an excuse to avoid sex of any kind, in which case the issues are deeper and may need MC to discover and perhaps resolve. You've suggested alternatives, and she ignores them. There is more to this story.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

can you try other positions that are maybe not so uncomfortable for her? Does she really want to have sex, or is she doing it just for you, because if her drive is low already then a surgery may make it even lower to nonexistent.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

happy2gether said:


> can you try other positions that are maybe not so uncomfortable for her? Does she really want to have sex, or is she doing it just for you, because if her drive is low already then a surgery may make it even lower to nonexistent.


We tried other positions and really couldn't find anything that was pleasurable for her. She wants to have sex way less than I do. I would be happy with two times a week, I would say she is happy with once a month. When it does happen, she seems to be doing it just for me.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Unfortunately we live in a society that tends to tell women that the ideal sexual model men desire is an insatiable porn star that can perform beyond your expectations and become immediately orgasmic upon penetration. Not realizing that all porn is fake, women tend to feel broken because this model of sexuality seems so different than how things are in the marital bed.
> 
> Add to that virtually all women feel overweight and ugly due to all the health/fitness/beauty supplies that are aggressively marketed to them.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your advice Bad Santa. I've tried different things to let her know she is loved. I've tried buying her new outfits that I let her know she looks nice in. I've just come up behind her to give her a hug. I've also taken all of the kids with me places so she can have some time to herself. 

I realize that how I presented my feelings to her about it seemed ****ty. I told her that it was her decision, she says she is not done having kids where I feel we are good with three.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She may not be done with having kids, but you have to have sex to accomplish that. Can she have enough sex to have another child given her problems, but shut you down sexually before and after she gets HER needs met? Assuming that you'd even agree to another child, of course. If it's for her, she'll "sacrifice" - but won't do anything for YOU. That shows where you stand in her priorities - taken for granted and used, it would seem.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ZDog377 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I feel we have made progress in our relationship but still have a sticking point when it comes to intimacy. She has been having pain during sex since our third child was born. I finally convinced her to see her OB/GYN and he said that scar tissue internally from the C-sections was the cause. However, once he did surgery he said that he was only able to fix about 30% of the problem. The only way to completely solve the problem would be a hysterectomy.
> 
> ...


I have a few suggestions. 

First there is a great book out there that was based on interviews with women over the age of 50 and how they incorporate sexuality and sensuality into their lives even when their husbands have died, they have divorced, or medical problems have prevented them from having PIV sex with their husband. the book is called "Still Sexy after all these years." I don't think it has any break-through solutions for you but it may help your wife realize that she is not alone and that other women struggle with different but similar issues.

Sometimes intimacy and feeling loved is as or more important than sex. I think that is one of the lessons of that book. For me two books that really define such intimacy are Chapman's 5 Languages of Love and Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight. A third book that is a very heavy read and so I wouldn't recommend it for anyone but the most dedicated with David Schnarch's book the Passionate Marriage. 

Second, this is s time to explore "outercourse" and non-traditional sexual things, once our wife absorbs this.

Actually, let me back up a moment. you and your wife will be making a very significant change. Changes like this cause stress and they can require a grieving period until you have both accepted your new reality. A sex therapist may be able to help the two of you deal with any emotional baggage associated with your new reality and give some suggestions on options.

Third, there was a post a while back where someone commented on Tantra sex and a combat veteran who had an incredibly satisfying sex life even without a penis. So PIV sex is not the end all, as you know and this might be an opportunity with training and experimentation for you and your wife to reach even greater levels of intimacy.

Speaking of which if PIV is important to you or your wife, there may be near-PIV things that the two of you can do. Like her holding a Fleshlight sleeve between her thighs while you mount her. 

Another thought is the Aneros prostate masager, or male p-spot stimulation where she could hold you while encouraging multiple orgasms on your part. 

Life can and does throw us many obstacles, sometimes through luck and effort we turn lemons into lemonade. I wish you and your wife the best. Stay positive.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> She may not be done with having kids, but you have to have sex to accomplish that. Can she have enough sex to have another child given her problems, but shut you down sexually before and after she gets HER needs met? Assuming that you'd even agree to another child, of course. If it's for her, she'll "sacrifice" - but won't do anything for YOU. That shows where you stand in her priorities - taken for granted and used, it would seem.


This is the part that I can't get an answer out of her for. I say that I'm done having kids but she says that she isn't. I get tired of having it thrown in my face that she's doing it so I get off. I want her to enjoy it and it seems like it is the only one on one time I get to spend with her. She used to give BJ's before, now she says they're disgusting. I offered to return the favor to her, she says no way. 

I understand that this isn't a decision she's going to make overnight. I wanted her to go to the doctor in the beginning to make sure it wasn't something serious.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> This is the part that I can't get an answer out of her for. I say that I'm done having kids but she says that she isn't. I get tired of having it thrown in my face that she's doing it so I get off. I want her to enjoy it and it seems like it is the only one on one time I get to spend with her. She used to give BJ's before, now she says they're disgusting. I offered to return the favor to her, she says no way.
> 
> I understand that this isn't a decision she's going to make overnight. I wanted her to go to the doctor in the beginning to make sure it wasn't something serious.


So if the doctor says sex is painful due to scarring that well require surgery and possibly a hysterectomy to correct, let me tell you what she is doing... She is saying:

• Protecting her ability to have more children is more important to her than pleasurable sex. (She may not even really want more children)
• She wants you to agree so that she understands you love her and what is potentially more important in the grand scheme of things to her.
• She is forcing you to acknowledge there are WAY MORE IMPORTANT things to enjoy in marriage than YOU ENJOYING the possibility that she enjoys sex.
• Odds are she still has a strong desire to please you, but not until you show some basic respect for the issues above.

Badsanta


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

badsanta said:


> So if the doctor says sex is painful due to scarring that well require surgery and possibly a hysterectomy to correct, let me tell you what she is doing... She is saying:
> 
> • Protecting her ability to have more children is more important to her than pleasurable sex. (She may not even really want more children)
> • She wants you to agree so that she understands you love her and what is potentially more important in the grand scheme of things to her.
> ...


I've known for a long time that she will always have a strong desire to still be able to have children. She tells me that she wants to be able to be a surrogate for her sisters if need be. The doctor mentioned about tying her tubes when he did the last C-Section. She said no to that since it was too permanent. She wants me to get a vasectomy instead.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ZDog377 said:


> I've known for a long time that she will always have a strong desire to still be able to have children. She tells me that she wants to be able to be a surrogate for her sisters if need be. The doctor mentioned about tying her tubes when he did the last C-Section. She said no to that since it was too permanent. She wants me to get a vasectomy instead.


If she has scaring that makes sex painful, it might affect her ability to have more children. Was this addressed with the doctor?

What is the rest of your relationship like? Do you two date each other? If so how often?

How many hours a week do the two of you spend together doing date-like things, just the two of you?


.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> If she has scaring that makes sex painful, it might affect her ability to have more children. Was this addressed with the doctor?
> 
> What is the rest of your relationship like? Do you two date each other? If so how often?
> 
> ...


The doctor did the surgery but told us he was only able to get about 30% of the scar tissue. He said he would be surprised if it made a difference, that is why he suggested the hysterectomy as a solution. We have not tried anything since the surgery. 

I feel our relationship comes and goes just like any marriage. I travel during the week for work so it is hard to plan something definite every week. We try and sit down once a weekend to watch some TV together or something like that. We don't spend much time together exclusively, it is usually doing something with the kids. My oldest is involved in sports year round. She has told me that spending time together exclusively is not as important to her as spending time with the kids as a family. 

I would say we spend maybe an hour a week together just ourselves. She usually falls asleep on the couch at night and I'll wake her up for us to go to bed and she falls right back asleep once we get up to bed. I can maybe get her to go to bed once or twice every other week before falling asleep but she is in bed maybe 10 minutes before falling asleep. I can't fall asleep however and am usually up for almost another half hour after she falls asleep.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

So here is an update:

After a discussion last weekend, we had some foreplay and proceeded to have PIV sex. She said that it wasn't 100% pain free but was definitely an improvement over the pain from before. She said that if that was bad as it would be, she would be OK with it. I was thrilled and thought we were finally on the right track. I didn't ask for anything during the week, especially because we fell asleep on the couch and recliner with the kids 3/5 nights. 

Fast forward to this weekend (tonight actually), I ask if we could have some "cuddle time" when I got back from the store since the two younger kids would be in bed and the oldest was staying over at a friends house. I figured this wouldn't be a big deal since I've been helping out around the house more and that is what she said means something to her (5 Love Languages). She responded "you know we will want to fall asleep after". I asked if she would rather do some things then go to bed so we could fall asleep without worrying about things to do. 

I came back from the store and asked if I needed to be more blunt as to what I wanted. This started a huge argument about how we can't agree on how often to have "relations". I stated that I would be happy with every other day when I'm home and at least once when I'm home on the weekend if I'm traveling during the week. She couldn't give an answer even after I asked her multiple times. 

Right now, I'm on my computer at the kitchen table and she's in the recliner watching the cooking channel...........


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I figured this wouldn't be a big deal since I've been helping out around the house more and that is what she said means something to her (5 Love Languages).


That's not how that works. You doing X around the house does not automatically mean sex. 



> I came back from the store and asked if I needed to be more blunt as to what I wanted.


Wow. 



> This started a huge argument about how we can't agree on how often to have "relations". I stated that I would be happy with every other day when I'm home and at least once when I'm home on the weekend if I'm traveling during the week. She couldn't give an answer even after I asked her multiple times.


Honestly, every other day seems extreme when someone has to have surgery to stop sex from hurting. Where exactly is the compromise or understanding here?

I mean, it sounds like maybe she's falling asleep on the couch to avoid this whole issue. Because this sounds like a really delicate problem. Like there needs to be some more looking into solutions than removing body parts or demanding PIV or BJs. That's a really narrow minded view on what counts as sex.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> That's not how that works. You doing X around the house does not automatically mean sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She told me that after last weekend that she was comfortable with how things felt. I've told her before that it is not enjoyable for me if I can tell it is not enjoyable for her. She also asked me my opinion on what I thought was a fair amount. I gave her my opinion, she wasn't able to give me her opinion on it. I asked multiple times so that we could have a discussion about it. 

I've also asked the OB/GYN if the hysterectomy was the only option. I wouldn't expect her to go through that for this. I'm also not demanding PIV or BJs from her. I've explained to her that it's not just the sex, it's the intimacy and time we get to spend alone that I enjoy as well. 

As far as the doing things for sex, that is how she explains it some times. She tells me to come in and help dry dishes and we can go upstairs and have sex after.......


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> She also asked me my opinion on what I thought was a fair amount. I gave her my opinion, she wasn't able to give me her opinion on it. I asked multiple times so that we could have a discussion about it.


I'll confess that I don't "get" conversations like that. I don't know how to promise ahead of time how often I want to have sex. As seeing sex on more "chore list" as pre-planned, I don't know, that would totally kill it for me. That's just me though. 

Given the medical aspect to this, maybe it's time to consider a sex therapist or something who might have other ideas from the OB/GYN.



> She tells me to come in and help dry dishes and we can go upstairs and have sex after.......


And does that happen?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Please, please get a second opinion before she even considers a hysterectomy! I know she isn't considering it, but maybe a different surgeon would have different skills, tools, and opinions on how her scarring issues could be treated.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> I'll confess that I don't "get" conversations like that. I don't know how to promise ahead of time how often I want to have sex. As seeing sex on more "chore list" as pre-planned, I don't know, that would totally kill it for me. That's just me though.
> 
> Given the medical aspect to this, maybe it's time to consider a sex therapist or something who might have other ideas from the OB/GYN.
> 
> ...


Helping out around the house leads to sex probably 50% of the time. That's why I've started trying to do the laundry when I can and taking the kids to the store with me so she can have some time to herself. I've told her I enjoy the intimacy because I feel it's the only time it can be 100% only us. She says she keeps thinking of all the other things she needs to do.......

I'm not asking her for a number of times in a month so I can hold her to it, but it seems our schedules are so crazy that committing time to it works best. I'm not expecting her to jump me every time I do something around the house, but it gets confusing when she wears short nightgowns to bed or grabs my crotch when walking past during the day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you looked into marriage counseling, one who is also a sex therapist?

What it sounds like to me is that the two of you are not spending enough non-sexual intimate time together. And that is leading to your wife not feeling bonded to you. That's the basis of her saying that she wants to spend time as family time, not couples time.

Have you considered going to some kind of marriage retreat? There are some very good ones. Here is one that I've heard a lot of good things about.

Marriage Help Program For Couples

Marriage Builders used to have a good one too. But I don't know if they still have it.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

badsanta said:


> imagine for a moment that you suffered pain in your penis every time your wife wanted to be intimate and she complained endlessly that the sex in your marriage was just not enough for her, nor was it anywhere near satisfying for her to be able to enjoy.




ymmv


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

> Quote:
> 
> 
> > This started a huge argument about how we can't agree on how often to have "relations". I stated that I would be happy with every other day when I'm home and at least once when I'm home on the weekend if I'm traveling during the week. She couldn't give an answer even after I asked her multiple times.
> ...


Is a compromise meeting in the middle or not? 

Cause if one side wants zero and the other side wants 10, expecting the 10 to self censure down to 2 and then compromise on 1 doesn't seem so fair to me. 0

FWIW, I don't disagree that every other day will probably never work but neither do I think he should hide what he wants if the problem can be fixed either...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> it gets confusing when she wears short nightgowns to bed


I often dress up in my nicest dress shirts and pants as I am behind on laundry and this is the last option remaining in the closet. I never imagined that I too could be confusing my wife...

She tells me she likes it when I dress nice!

Badsanta


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Have you looked into marriage counseling, one who is also a sex therapist?
> 
> What it sounds like to me is that the two of you are not spending enough non-sexual intimate time together. And that is leading to your wife not feeling bonded to you. That's the basis of her saying that she wants to spend time as family time, not couples time.
> 
> ...


We've looked into counseling, but my insurance does not cover it and even with the income discount we would still be paying close to $60/hour. That doesn't even include child care for the children. I know that costs shouldn't matter on something like this. I've considered the marriage counseling retreat, I saw it on one of the counseling sites that I was looking at. It is something that I need to bring up.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She didn't answer the question because she didn't want to find out your response to the fact that she doesn't want you sexually.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> She didn't answer the question because she didn't want to find out your response to the fact that she doesn't want you sexually.


Believe me, I've had that thought more than once.....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

She is saying something if she's grabbing your crotch when you go by. Not sure exactly what she's saying, but it looks like she is interested in, but she needs a warm up. What is your response when she does that?
As far as the nighties go, she may just want to know that she is attractive to you. I know you tell her you want sex from her, but do you reach out to her otherwise to hug her and kiss her without sexual overtones to it? Maybe when she is grabbing at you she is looking for some affection and trying to get your attention.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Do yourself a favor. Get a vasectomy. 

You can't deal with 3 kids now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> Do yourself a favor. Get a vasectomy.
> 
> You can't deal with 3 kids now.


There has been no indication that he is having trouble dealing with his children. The problem is that he is hardly home and his relationship with his wife is not good. I agree that bringing more children into this marriage would not be good, but it's not because he can't deal with his children.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> There has been no indication that he is having trouble dealing with his children. The problem is that he is hardly home and his relationship with his wife is not good. I agree that bringing more children into this marriage would not be good, but it's not because he can't deal with his children.


One of the things we do agree on is no more kids.


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> She is saying something if she's grabbing your crotch when you go by. Not sure exactly what she's saying, but it looks like she is interested in, but she needs a warm up. What is your response when she does that?
> As far as the nighties go, she may just want to know that she is attractive to you. I know you tell her you want sex from her, but do you reach out to her otherwise to hug her and kiss her without sexual overtones to it? Maybe when she is grabbing at you she is looking for some affection and trying to get your attention.


I do try and hug her as much as I can. I always give her a kiss before I leave to go somewhere. The crotch grabbing or the pat on the rear almost always happens when she is carrying one of the kids past me or on the way to help one of the kids with something. I feel it's almost a tease like "I'll make you horny, but it can't go any further". As far as the warm up in bed goes, she's not to keen on foreplay. 

She will go through with it and enjoy it, but when it comes to PIV sex she is like "hurry up and finish".


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ZDog377 said:


> I do try and hug her as much as I can. I always give her a kiss before I leave to go somewhere. The crotch grabbing or the pat on the rear almost always happens when she is carrying one of the kids past me or on the way to help one of the kids with something. I feel it's almost a tease like "I'll make you horny, but it can't go any further". As far as the warm up in bed goes, she's not to keen on foreplay.
> 
> She will go through with it and enjoy it, but when it comes to PIV sex she is like "hurry up and finish".


Have you spoken to her about grabbing you so you can find out what is going on? Have you told her that she is teasing you?

Edited to add:


ZDog377 said:


> One of the things we do agree on is no more kids.


So this has changed. What brought about her change of heart?


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## ZDog377 (May 31, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Have you spoken to her about grabbing you so you can find out what is going on? Have you told her that she is teasing you?
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> ...


I always tell her that it isn't nice if she isn't going to follow through on it. When I grab her behind, she doesn't appreciate it. 

I don't know if it was anything in particular that changed her mind. I believe her reason before was more of a "what if" situation. I believe it was along the lines of if something horrific happened to the children and they were no longer around. That's why she would like the opportunity to have more children.


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