# Men & women - what makes a good marriage ??



## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Now that I've finally realized I've gone into long term relationships culminating in two marriages w/o knowing how a good marriage/LTR is lived beyond the initial honeymoon period, I'm wondering how two intelligent people who have good chemistry spend their time together once retired, with grown children out of the house and money less of an issue than its ever been.

I want the passion and love that have disappeared as w's mind becomes evermore OCD and narcissistic.

What expressions of love and respect and ??? should I plan to give a future lover and partner?

FYI - I'm thoroughly domesticated - cook, shop, pay bills, do my laundry, take care of 50% plus of household tasks and don't mind doing them.

What made those of you with good marriages decide to choose your partner? 

I'm comfortable with my own company, but know shared activities, shared bits of the day, shared meals increase my enjoyment of each day.

Clearly an enjoyable and reasonably active sex life is part of it.
I know a number of post menopausal women who enjoy sex greatly, mine doesn't any longer, for health reasons estrogen is not desirable.

Finishing up - on an active thread (starting a new one because I don't want to hijack it)



4sure said:


> My h just takes and takes without any regard to giving. And frankly I am exhausted.


I'm a 61 yo male and my w behaves like 4sure's h. I've had enough of giving and living in a passionless marriage where I come in 4th or lower on her list of things to do and my requests are deferred, or agreed to and promptly ignored. I am not macho, at age 8 I wondered why the other boys were always running around and yelling. Not my style - think of the classic MIT geek with glasses and his nose in a book. That said from time to time nice women start chatting with me, some seem to think I look OK enough. I really enjoy bright women, find I can finally talk to just about anyone these days despite shyness in my first decades of life.

No more mr nice guy, now I'm trying to figure out what marriage/LTR should be once past the initial phase.

Call me clueless, immediately after doing so please suggest ideas, URL's, posts, books, magic potions, etc. 

Mark


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Well Mark you and I are the same age. I was with my wife 42 years. I’ve been out of my marriage for nearly a year now. Basically I could just not face the future with her for a whole variety of reasons number 1 being the bitterness and resentment she’d built up over the years and point blankly refused to do anything about.

I’m glad I’m out and haven’t regretted it but I have my moments of sadness even now but it passes.

Bob


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Insist on counseling, together and each of you individually. It will be money well spent. 

You sound like you are not afraid to be alone, so why do you put up with behavior that is unkind or disrespectful? Ask your wife if she still loves you and the life you have together. Tell her the feeling is waning on your end and you will do something about it, with or without her. She may need some sign that you are not just griping--that you mean what you say. Start individual counseling. Start doing things you want, and ask her to go (sometimes). Set a deadline for seeing improvement in the relationship (ask the counselor for a good time frame and to help you decide what measures of success you will look for when that time comes). If you want to stay married, find that spot that is both realistic and satisfying for you to feel you can keep working on things with her. When the deadline comes, evaluate.

Good luck. Only you can decide to settle for less than you want/need to enjoy this stage of life.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

You guys are good men, so you need to find kind women.

My husband's first choice: kindness. 

second choice: he enjoys talking to this woman.

third choice: her beauty is a bonus. 

Fourth: He didn't buy any gifts for this woman, she never minded. He bought flowers for her once, he doesn't like women who is interested in gifts.

Fifth: She dresses well, but not showy, not goddy, no brand name stuff, decent and dignified. 

I'll see if I can convince him to come to write his mind.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Ok, Clueless, here's what you do: 

Seriously, Mark...a good marriage is one in which both people are happy. What that means will vary. What makes a good marriage for me might make a miserable one for you, and vice versa. I think you need to decide what you want and expect from a relationship, and then look for women that have a similar viewpoint, or at least a compatible one. 

Beyond that, it's a crapshoot. There's no way to predict whether someone is going to do a 180 and change who they are, or who they presented themselves to be. You can only hope that it all works out in the end. 

You know I'm rooting for you though!


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

ThinkTooMuch said:


> Now that I've finally realized I've gone into long term relationships culminating in two marriages w/o knowing how a good marriage/LTR is lived beyond the initial honeymoon period, I'm wondering how two intelligent people who have good chemistry spend their time together once retired, with grown children out of the house and money less of an issue than its ever been.


The finesse for this desire, which is actually a very common desire, is to NEVER let the honeymoon go away.

As trite as that sounds, your answer you are looking for is really just this simple.



> I want the passion and love that have disappeared as w's mind becomes evermore OCD and narcissistic.


If you are experiencing this with your current woman, what are you doing that will not make you expect the same from a future woman?

Do not think all women are so different, as not to be confusioning and frustrating to men, particularly for certain requirements that are always present in relationships between men and women, and that is of conflict and control.

A man that of his kindness and being nice, defers and lets his woman win the conflicts and assume the control, the situation you are describing, mostly unavoidable. 



> What expressions of love and respect and ??? should I plan to give a future lover and partner?


Love and respect, you sound like you have the giving part down.

Work on what you will expect to demand to receive back, that is the piece of this puzzle that will be your revelation. 



> FYI - I'm thoroughly domesticated - cook, shop, pay bills, do my laundry, take care of 50% plus of household tasks and don't mind doing them.


Nothing depresses a women faster than to know first thing that her man is capable of out womaning her. 

This is only half a joke, but this is truth.

Do not sell a sports car by advertising how slow it is able to drive, or try to sell a truck by advertising how lightweight it is.

Understand your product, your customer, and what you are trying to market.

A woman, that you are looking to be romantic and sexual with, do not advertise yourself to compete with her other women friends.

Instead, advertise these things of you that are not found in any women friend! 



> What made those of you with good marriages decide to choose your partner?


Sexual attraction.

Then intelligence, compatibility, interests, philosophies, goals, all these other things may or may not fall into place and determine to stay in LTR and marriage, or whether it is even worthwhile to pursue.

For what man pursues a woman that doesn't light his fire? And vice versa?

Again, the other things, they determined how easily to live with and be a life partner, but without sexual attraction, what would be the use?



> I'm comfortable with my own company, but know shared activities, shared bits of the day, shared meals increase my enjoyment of each day.
> 
> Clearly an enjoyable and reasonably active sex life is part of it.
> I know a number of post menopausal women who enjoy sex greatly, mine doesn't any longer, for health reasons estrogen is not desirable.
> ...


Sexual pleasure, intimacy, emotoinal connection, absolutlely these are important to a woman even as they get older.





> I'm a 61 yo male and my w behaves like 4sure's h. I've had enough of giving and living in a passionless marriage where I come in 4th or lower on her list of things to do and my requests are deferred, or agreed to and promptly ignored.


Again, to defer or capitulate to a women long enough, over time, this is going to happen time and time and time again.

Do not seek out even another woman to have this same thing happen, until you have embraced conflict and insist on putting yourself and your desires number one from your own leadership.

The man that does these things, his woman respects him and she is on fire sexual and intimate and emotionally connected.

The man that refuses to do these things, his woman will resent and hold him in contempt.

On this, do not compromise even an inch, for both the happiness of you and your woman!  




> I am not macho, at age 8 I wondered why the other boys were always running around and yelling. Not my style - think of the classic MIT geek with glasses and his nose in a book.


Nothing necessary to behave loud or macho.

The quiet geek, with glasses, be the clark kent in appearance only, but with the strength of your natural calmness, your ability to analyze and put structures to the chaos of the world, use this to express the superman underneath!



> That said from time to time nice women start chatting with me, some seem to think I look OK enough. I really enjoy bright women, find I can finally talk to just about anyone these days despite shyness in my first decades of life.


Uh oh, beware the "nice guy" leading to the "friend zone" 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/17436-nice-guys-other-types.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...-dating-would-ruin-our-friendship-satire.html



> No more mr nice guy, now I'm trying to figure out what marriage/LTR should be once past the initial phase.
> 
> Call me clueless, immediately after doing so please suggest ideas, URL's, posts, books, magic potions, etc.
> 
> Mark


Nothing magic.

Just this, keep the honeymoon phase going for months and years.

To do this, be just like the man in the honeymoon, to be interesting, bold, confident, a man with a plan and goals for life.

Do not be timid, always wanting to ask your woman what she wants or what would make her happy. 

A woman is not as selfish as the "nice guy" often thinks.

A woman wants this : To see those she loves get what they want.

This makes a woman happy: To see those she loves get what makes them happy.

Understand this.

I mean really try to understand this.

So you know to find happiness, interest, and conversation for years and years with your woman, is simply for yourself to explore what makes YOU happy, what interests YOU, and what YOU want to talk about, and be fully inviting the woman that you love, and who loves you, along for this journey together!

Simple. Be yourself.

This comes from knowing yourself.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> The finesse for this desire, which is actually a very common desire, is to NEVER let the honeymoon go away.
> 
> As trite as that sounds, your answer you are looking for is really just this simple.
> 
> ...


You are my hero!!!


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## AWife (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm probably the last one that should give advice, but I'm going to anyway! 

First - I know there are a lot of generalities about both men and women. It’s important to understand those, but not everyone fits in that mold. I certainly don’t and far from it. I think that’s a good thing.  A happy satisfying relationship is different for everyone. Here is what I think.

If you’re comfortable being alone that’s great! Find your own happiness and contentment first. Then find someone that fits into your lifestyle. Not because you need a wife but because you want a partner and companion to share life with. 

Now here is where I always mess up - Know what you want and don’t settle for less! If you’re in a long term relationship don’t let things go. Give all you need to make your partner happy but don’t go without your needs being met. I have issues standing up for myself and always end up getting taken advantage of in all of my relationships. I’m trying to learn to stand up for myself (in a nice way) so I don’t get so overwhelmed and stressed.


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## AWife (Sep 25, 2010)

Oh - and if you end up in a relationship with a woman like me, don't worry about out cooking and out cleaning her. I hate to do both. Well, I do like to cook but hate the daily burden of it.  I'd rather be outside even if I'm work on the car or mowing the lawn. lol


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

To all who responded, I appreciate your words greatly, I will no longer be as nice as I was, I'll be stronger in expressing my wants, needs and desires.

I cannot live this half life much longer, and really like the idea of keeping the honeymoon going for years and years.

W/o children other than a pleasant distraction, with adequate funds, and no full time job, but potential volunteering, an attractive in mind, body and spirit, companion would definitely increase my enjoyment of life, especially if she's a good cook.

I started counselling in August, have reservations for flights, rented a less than a year old fully furnished apartment in SF near the civic center, and am searching plentyoffish, astonished by the number of attractive woman who might connect.

As I was telling my w last night, no more mr. nice guy. I'm not going to compromise, I insist on living the life I want to live, I am fortunate enough it is within my grasp.


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