# Heartbroken



## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

My life is over. H wants a divorce and to split assets. I'm 37, no kids, no future really. I'm contemplating suicide.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Why does he want to divorce ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Things have been very bad for awhile. I made my bed, I guess I have to lie in it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

That's not much to go on. What do you mean you made your bed - you have to lie in it. You're 37? Your life is far from over. If you give more information I'm sure someone here can help.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Married 4 years...not really happy for most of it. Things were always all about him and his career, his choices, etc. At least I felt that way. We never fought fair. I don't like fighting, and he loves to fight. 

In a very vulnerable state, I entered into a very short-lived affair with a co-worker. Horrible, terrible mistake. H found out and wants a divorce. I'm heartbroken

So yes, I'm getting everything I deserve.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

So he is adamant about the divorce ?
No chance he would want to reconcile?

What have you done to show him you want to fix it or does he not care?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Well...we are two days in. He found out because he was spying on my text messages. I haven't seen him since he discovered the affair.

He's pretty adamant that he wants out. 

I've cut off all contact with affair partner. So do not want anything to do with him...


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I have told him that I am willing to do whatever it takes to work things out.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> My life is over. H wants a divorce and to split assets. I'm 37, no kids, no future really. I'm contemplating suicide.


Though it hurts like the ****ens the pain you feel is temporary. Please, I beg of you don't make a permanent decision on a temporary situation. I dont know the full story; but we're near the same age. Im separated and it sucks; but you have to take on the mindset that though he has dictated your life thus far, you CAN'T allow him to author its end. Get some counseling, call over a friend/relative..something. whi knows what the future holds. All requests for divorce, don't end in one. It will surely end if you do harm and are no longer here when that moment could come where he says, i changed my mind ..let's work on it. PM me if need be, i just want to make sure you're ok.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I feel like all of my dreams of kids and a good life have vanished, so why not just get it over with


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I feel like all of my dreams of kids and a good life have vanished, so why not just get it over with


Because women have kids into their 40's now and you never know what is around the corner. I know it feels like there is no hope but trust me there is!!!! I'm 44 & had my ex walk out after almost 25 years. It was only four months ago but I'm better now than when I was with him. I didn't feel that way in the first weeks after he left - I did nothing but cry - but it does get better. You made a mistake - give him some space & time to process what happened. Maybe when things calm down he'll be willing to talk.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You're young veronica, you can have all the things you want with another man if your H does divorce you.

Has he asked you anything about the affair?

What exactly has he said to you?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes, give it time. His feelings are very raw right now.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Should I just leave him alone? My knee jerk is to just be with him, but I don't understand men sometimes. 

He said that he doesn't know if he will ever trust me again, he doesn't know who I am anymore.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You need to give him time - that was a big blow to him. Trying to push will drive him further away. Take the high road & tell him you're sorry & you will respect his space but know that you would like to try to fix things. Its really all you can do right now.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I guess it is the only thing to do.


i've made the mistake of my life.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I feel like all of my dreams of kids and a good life have vanished, so why not just get it over with


My Dear,

Many of us have felt this way -- hang in there and keep posting. You are in thr right place and will find much needed support here from people who understand 

Hugs,- A12


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

We all make mistakes - we need to learn from them & move on. Do you have any idea what made you have this affair. Were there problems? Were the two of you happy?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

There were problems in the relationship, and we never fought fairly. I have pretty serious depression, and he treated me sometimes as though that was a handicap to a successful life. He was derogatory about my career (he has a super fantastic career as a scientist, whereas I'm a lowly tech writer). He was also somewhat emotionally abusive. 

The AP was just someone I worked with that I clicked with. He was my only friend here (we moved here because of H's job). He said all the right things, and it was like a drug, the attention. And I guess I was vulnerable, and I took his stupid bait. Not excusing my actions...I'm an adult and I did something wrong....now I'm paying for it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I know and its good you can admit you did something wrong & not try to justify it. Problems in a marriage come from both sides - you need to see that. You were vulnerable & gave into something you shouldn't but your human - we're not perfect. The fact that he seems to make you feel inferior to him are you sure you want to go back to him? You both obviously need some sort of marriage counceling. Do you think he would do that?


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I feel like all of my dreams of kids and a good life have vanished, so why not just get it over with


Sweetie , no one person can determine your happiness but you. Take the time to learn to love you. Maybe that's what happened to get you all to this point. You were looking for someone else to fill that void inside. You will never be able to be the wife he meeds and wants you to be until you do just that, learn to love yourswlf. If you end it all it will prove to him that you didn't love you therefore you would have never been able to completely love him. Prove to him that whether or not he is around you will be healthy and whole ,most importantly happy. He can then decide if what you all share is worthy of salvaging and more than likely he's gonna wanna come along for the beautiful journey of life with you. Its early in your split. Give it some time, work first on you, then evaluate where this marriage path will take you.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I think it would flatter him that I would destroy myself over him.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

i know the feeling veronica. don't give him the satisfaction! it may be the hardest thing you will do. it's easy to give advice...but i think focusing on you will be so important here.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Then that's exactly why you don't do that!!!! Catch22 is right. Take this time to work on you!! You are a valuable person - you shouldn't ever doubt that. No matter what your husband wants to do you need to carry on. Put your head up & start to work on yourself.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> You need to give him time - that was a big blow to him. Trying to push will drive him further away. Take the high road & tell him you're sorry & you will respect his space but know that you would like to try to fix things. Its really all you can do right now.


I totally agree. Love will allow you to look outside of your pain and put yourself in his shoes. Just what if the shoe was on the other foot. When people experience hurt, a deep hurt your first instinct is to remove yourself from whatever is causing the pain. Don't believe me ? Turn on the eye of your stove...stick your hand over it, as the temperature rises. See if when it gets too hot to handle ,you remove your hand from what is causing and has the potential to cause more pain. Doesn't mean you'll never use your stove again. You just use it with more caution the next time and each time after that until you TRUST that you have mastered its functions. What it will and won't do and learn its limitations. Same as with your marriage. Im not gonna sugarcoat it baby. You just gave him 3rd degree burns. They can be healed, rehabbed, but its gonna probably take some time, some grafts of thicker skin, and more than likely therapy before its back to full function. 
Sorry I use so many analogies ; i just wanna maje sure you get it. We're here for you; but we can't help you if you are not willing to truly help yourself.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I think it would flatter him that I would destroy myself over him.


I can tell you now to a man, a smart man at that (honey you're married to a scientist ) wallowing in self pity is the one thing that WILL continue to allow him to see you as not an option. Only a strong, goal oriented, emotionaly stable woman is attractive to a man of his caliber. Now DONT GET ME WRONG, he has had NO RIGHT treating you as he has. You becoming all that you can be will force him to look at his part in possibly opening that door to do what you did. He needs at some point to take ownership of his stuff too. Now you cant blame him for what you did...you must own that yourself. He just needs to know that you or any woman in his possible future does not deserve that. If ya keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what ya got. He will run into the same type issues if he does not deal with that. You both need professional assistance at some point concerning these matters. Clergymen or something. .anything at this point will be a plus. I wish you nothing but the best.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

So be strong and act like I don't care?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Tell him you will give him his space - you realize what you did was wrong - you would ultimately like to work on things when he is ready. Try to do it as strong & steadfast as you can. Even use an e mail or text - no groveling. Then give him the space to process & begin working on yourself


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> So be strong and act like I don't care?


No be strong and act like you care enough about you to get to the bottom of your depression, get to the bottom of your actions, get to the bottom of what that void is, and get to the top of who you are and learn to create your own happiness. 

Get some self help books, spend an ample amount of time here (that alone will inspire you) trust me there are far worse break ups on here than what you all have going in. See what other women are doing to cope. As long as you cope you can find just an ounce of hope. But giving up ?? No ma'am thats not an option. You we're created for a reason and not just to be a wife anyway. Find out what that is in his absense. You said your career is not where you want it...work on that. You actually have the advantage by not having children yet. Can you imagine being a single parent in this situation? Try explaining to a daugter why daddy left mama..unh huh not a conversation you'd be looking forward to, huh ? All things happen for a reason. Idk your stance as far as faith and a higher power. But my God has a way of allowing you to be broken down so that he can build you back up stronger than you we're before.. Get some counseling, keep nay sayers out of your business, and learn to love and live life. This too shall pass , when...i have no idea. But Thats what keeps me keeping on, i too suffer with depression ;but im just stubborn enough to allow it to knock me down and not keep me down. Suicidal been there 
one that mind frame too...nahhh to darn stubborn to go out that easy. I've worked to hard to pass up my chance one day to retire and see the world because a situation whooped me so bad that i took my own life. What don't kill us only makes us stronger.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Tell him you will give him his space - you realize what you did was wrong - you would ultimately like to work on things when he is ready. Try to do it as strong & steadfast as you can. Even use an e mail or text - no groveling. Then give him the space to process & begin working on yourself


Great advice !


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Shouldn't I grovel though? I mean, I'm the one that is in the wrong.

I have worked very hard to address my depression. Therapy for years, meds, etc. He continually uses it against me.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I think that if I had a kid, this wouldn't have happened. That was kind of another point in the marriage that made it collapse. He was very wishy washy about wanting children.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> . I'm contemplating suicide.


That is a permanent solution to a temporary problem...

Face the problem you created and get professional help.We all do things in our life time we regret, that is being a human.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I think that if I had a kid, this wouldn't have happened.


Not true, kids add stress to a marriage


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

mel123 said:


> That is a permanent solution to a temporary problem...
> 
> Face the problem you created and get professional help.We all do things in our life time we regret, that is being a human.


Human. 

I'm less than that. I've ruined a good man, and a decent marriage, and every chance I ever had to be happy.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Human.
> 
> I'm less than that. I've ruined a good man, and a decent marriage, and every chance I ever had to be happy.


STOP! A man that made you feel the way you felt is not that great & you just said he was wishy washy about having kids. So you may never have had kids with him in the first place and if you had you'd be miserable because he would have been a 1/2 hearted father. Maybe you are better off finding a man who wants what you want. In the mean time work on building yourself up.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> Human.
> 
> I'm less than that. I've ruined a good man, and a decent marriage, and every chance I ever had to be happy.


This is only true if you let it.I'm 62 and it would take me a very long time to list all of the people and life events that have brought happiness my way since I was 37.Why should it be any different for you?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How are you today Veronica?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Worse than yesterday. I'm to see him for the first time since he found everything out. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't think that I can bear to answer his questions or feel his anger.

I'm never going to be happy again, so what's the point?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

This is your depression talking. It's not based on facts.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm going to be sick for the rest of my life with depression. Even if I were to somehow find someone else, it wouldn't last. It hasn't before. H said that I shouldn't have kids because of my depression.

So what's the point?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Worse than yesterday. I'm to see him for the first time since he found everything out. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't think that I can bear to answer his questions or feel his anger.
> 
> I'm never going to be happy again, so what's the point?


You are going to be happy again. You need to go into today believing this. You need to answer his questions -BUT - he will have no right to belittle you - if the conversation takes a turn that way then end it. Answer them as calmly as you can. He will be angry - that is to be expected - he will be emotional & upset. Let him vent but not by putting you down. I know this is very hard but its very early in your process and emotions are running on high on both sides. Please believe that this will get better - not overnight but in time. It will take a while but never believe you are not going to be happy again. I think all of us on this board believed that at one time or another but we are all still here & we're okay. Please let us know how you do. We're here for you.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm going to be sick for the rest of my life with depression. Even if I were to somehow find someone else, it wouldn't last. It hasn't before. H said that I shouldn't have kids because of my depression.
> 
> So what's the point?


There is help out there - I think you were with a person who made you worse.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> There is help out there - I think you were with a person who made you worse.


Maybe. My view is scattered and has been for so long.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Maybe. My view is scattered and has been for so long.


That's why it will be good for you to step away from your current relationship with your husband & seek counceling or therapy for yourself. You may come to find out he was no good for you in the first place.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I suppose. I know that I strayed because I wasn't happy. Doesn't excuse at all what I did, but I was certainly seeking something.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Exactly. Its good you realize that having the affair was the wrong way to go about handeling the problem. If you weren't happy you should have gone to him & tried to discuss it. If he didn't listen to you or deny any problem or worse - put the blame on you then you needed to make a decision to end the marriage & walk away BEFORE you found someone else. Truth is your affair was a band aid to your unhappieness. I think you really need time to find happiness in yourself.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

H doesn't have empathy at all. Everything was somehow always my fault. He rewrote history all the time. I allowed this for years...and it built up. I allowed it because I wanted so much to be loved and have a family. I still do.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I don't think that I can bear this. There is no point in anything


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I don't think that I can bear this. There is no point in anything


National Suicide Prevention Lifeline – Suicide Prevention Crisis Hotline

Please call the suicide prevention lifeline. 1-800-273-TALK (8255)


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

It's what I deserve for the way I've ruined my life, H's life, and the AP's family life.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Veronica - 

YOU ARE ONLY HUMAN!!! There are no perfect people! Please go easy on yourself! We all make mistakes and screw up -- sometimes we have to face consequences, but the best we can do is learn from our errors and turn them into assets that help us grow and improve ourselves. There is so much beauty in the world, and so much need of you to be in it to use and share your God-given gifts. 

I feel more responsible that my STBXH for the demise of my marriage, too, but people assure me I have got to stop blaming myself and realize that these things happen. Regardless of how your story unfolds, the end of the story is not yet written. There are many new and fulfilling chapters to come.

Hang in there and please be good to yourself, and reach out to others for the love and support you need and deserve.

Warm Regards,- A12


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Married 4 years...not really happy for most of it. Things were always all about him and his career, his choices, etc. At least I felt that way. We never fought fair. I don't like fighting, and he loves to fight.
> 
> In a very vulnerable state, I entered into a very short-lived affair with a co-worker. Horrible, terrible mistake. H found out and wants a divorce. I'm heartbroken
> 
> So yes, I'm getting everything I deserve.


Veronica,

why do you want to return to what you described above? Sounds like you were not happy. Is it that you want what you can't have?

Yes, he may be very hurt right now, and you may have to get used to the idea that this marriage may be over. He probably needs some time to process all of this, and I think giving him some space right now is a good idea. 

About the affair, what in your mind was the "horrible mistake"? Did the remorse come before or after the discovery by your husband?

I think you're both in kneejerk response mode right now. Living through it, letting the dust settle, and then evaluate what you both really want, with a calmer mindset, is probably what you both need to do, and be HONEST with each other. You probably had the affair for a reason, so this is your starting point.

Hugs, and best wishes!!!


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

If I'm honest, the remorse came afterwards. I was in the "affair fog" with the AP...He was asking me to run away with him, telling me he loved me, telling me how smart, creative, funny I was. The usual BS that men say to women, and I should have known better.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

catch22gofigure said:


> I can tell you now to a man, a smart man at that (honey you're married to a scientist ) wallowing in self pity is the one thing that WILL continue to allow him to see you as not an option. Only a strong, goal oriented, emotionaly stable woman is attractive to a man of his caliber.


I disagree somewhat with this statement. Being a scientist does not make one emotionally intelligent. Au contraire, many of those folks have some "deficiencies" in the emotional compartment. I was married to one, and thanks to my profession, am surrounded by them on a daily basis. To most, I would not want to be married. A strong, goal-oriented, emotionally stable woman would thankfully decline, or take her marbles elsewhere, because she'd be fed up with the neglect, aloofness, and narcissistic behavior coming her way, and always playing second fiddle to the job.

There are different types of intelligence; they may excel at some, but most often not in the emotional compartment. Someone like Veronica describes her husband is not a good match for a woman who longs for warmth and companionship, and who has a mental disorder to cope with. She may never get the empathy she needs, and she may waste her precious years on a man who does not or cannot give her what she needs, and ultimately may walk out on her in the end.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I think that if I had a kid, this wouldn't have happened. That was kind of another point in the marriage that made it collapse. He was very wishy washy about wanting children.


Here's yet another point why you two may not be a good match. You got all the advice on how to attempt to work things out with your husband. 

I'm the one wondering why you would want to do that after what you wrote here.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Human.
> 
> I'm less than that. I've ruined a good man, and a decent marriage, and every chance I ever had to be happy.


Your marriage does not sound decent, from what you wrote here. I think you're doing what many people in your shoes do, you romanticize, and rewrite marital history. And blame yourself for everything. That is very normal, and takes some time to work through.

But don't hold yourself on the dark side by thinking that you will never get happy again, and he was the only one. From the sound of it, it seems to me that you deserve better, better than he could ever give you, and that your children should have a father who really wants them, who cherishes them as well as his wife.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

seagoat said:


> Your marriage does not sound decent, from what you wrote here. I think you're doing what many people in your shoes do, you romanticize, and rewrite marital history. And blame yourself for everything. That is very normal, and takes some time to work through.
> 
> But don't hold yourself on the dark side by thinking that you will never get happy again, and he was the only one. From the sound of it, it seems to me that you deserve better, better than he could ever give you, and that your children should have a father who really wants them, who cherishes them as well as his wife.


But I'm going to be too old to have kids....


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I think you are focusing way too much on the kids part of it. There are so many different ways to have kids nowadays. Honestly stop beating yourself up over your marriage - it wasn't 100% your fault. The affair was but your problems weren't. I don't think you would have been happy with the situation with your H anyway. Step back for a minute and think - you were not happy - he made you feel inferior to him - he wasn't sure he wanted kids & blamed you for it. You might be much better off letting this go - making yourself a better person & moving on with your life. You have many good years ahead of you.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> I think you are focusing way too much on the kids part of it. There are so many different ways to have kids nowadays. Honestly stop beating yourself up over your marriage - it wasn't 100% your fault. The affair was but your problems weren't. I don't think you would have been happy with the situation with your H anyway. Step back for a minute and think - you were not happy - he made you feel inferior to him - he wasn't sure he wanted kids & blamed you for it. You might be much better off letting this go - making yourself a better person & moving on with your life. You have many good years ahead of you.


Maybe I am. 9 months ago, we lost a baby. He was not upset, and I haven't let it go. We had tried for 3 years, and were at a point where I thought he could not get me pregnant (he refused to get checked).


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Aaahh - I know how you feel. Its strange because when it happened to me I felt a shift in our marriage. I wanted to have another child but he kept putting it off. When I was 37 he finally said yes but I miscarried twice. The first one they had a heartbeat but when I went in at 11 weeks it was gone. The second never developed. I wanted him to go for the testing but he refused - I started the process but he wouldn't co operate at all. From my experience - I think you are still dealing with that loss. I know I didn't get over it for a long time - and when you have a spouse that doesn't share your want for that child it is very hard.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

We had come back around to it, but he used phrases like "it's what you want" never that he wanted a child. 

When everything happened, I felt a shift in the marriage, and it was never the same after. He blames me for the entire mess.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Mine never blamed me but I was mad and blamed him for waiting so long until he wanted to try to have another. I always felt if I didn't have my kids by 35 (my family has a history of early menopause) I wouldn't be able to have anymore. He constantly made fun of me for that - he thought I was crazy for thinking that way. At that point I realized we always did things his way & this time it cost me big. It is not your fault this happened. I have come to the understanding that its just what was meant to be. That's why I say maybe its better you step away and work on yourself for a while. Picture the life you could have once you work through these feelings & become a stronger person!


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

It's my fault that I went outside the marriage. 

I've been wondering if maybe that was my exit strategy. I had asked time and time again that we please do counseling so that we could learn to fight more fairly, not just him screaming at me until I gave in, but he refused.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> It's my fault that I went outside the marriage.
> 
> I've been wondering if maybe that was my exit strategy. I had asked time and time again that we please do counseling so that we could learn to fight more fairly, not just him screaming at me until I gave in, but he refused.


So you did try & he refused. So your mistake was going outside the marriage - what you should have done was just left so I wouldn't be beating myself up over this as badly as you are. Not that I am justifying what you did but with the emotional abuse he put on you I don't think you would have left on your own. It does sound like it was your exit strategy.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I did try, for a long time. I went to therapy for a long time, took anti-anxiety pills, read all of these relationship guides, trying to fix things. I tried to make him see that he scared me sometimes, with the yelling and the bullying. He wanted to control everything, even down to the side businesses that I have. 

He has a terrible temper, and to me, meek person that I am, he was very frightening when he was angry. I have said before that I dislike conflict, and try to resolve it quickly. He seems to love to fight, and won't give up until he has "won."

I'm still terrified. Sitting in the house that we bought a year ago, looking at our decorations, the memories, it's just so depressing.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

When we bought the house, there was a room that had been a nursery (the couple that we bought it from had a baby), and I wanted so badly to see a child there, our child. 

Within a week of move in, he had dismantled it and turned it into a rec room. Kinda broke my heart a little.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

Veronica - Please stop beating yourself up and seek counseling ASAP. I am doing weekly meetings with a local therapist and it has helped me immensely in validating my feelings and working on self improvement. 

The thing is - every person I have ever met in my life has one big bad mistake. This may be yours. Don't let it ruin you. And to be honest, it doesn't sound like it came from left field. Once you figure out why you acted out in that way, you will have a deeper understanding of yourself and how not to make the same mistake twice. The fact your spouse would not go to counseling speaks volumes to me. Honestly, a spouse refusing counseling to me is about equal to an affair. It's a passive aggressive way of saying your feelings are not valid and they will not "embarrass" themselves to air the dirty laundry and rebuild the marriage. To truly be married, you have to put the union above your own pride. You were willing to do that. He was not. 

Regarding fertility - I have several friends 40+ having children. There's been a lot of scientific advancement in that area. If it is important to you, consult your OBGYN on options. 

Look at the world around us, no storm in nature lasts forever. And that is true of our personal lives as well. This may be a tsunami, but it will end. I promise.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> When we bought the house, there was a room that had been a nursery (the couple that we bought it from had a baby), and I wanted so badly to see a child there, our child.
> 
> Within a week of move in, he had dismantled it and turned it into a rec room. Kinda broke my heart a little.



This breaks my heart. Please know that you deserve better.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh, hon, your husband sounds like an abusive monster. Please, please, please call a suicide hotline or someone who loves you and get yourself better. Please.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

northernlights said:


> Oh, hon, your husband sounds like an abusive monster. Please, please, please call a suicide hotline or someone who loves you and get yourself better. Please.


I don't know if he's a monster. I don't want to make myself out to be this victim. That's what he's accused me of doing in the past. I can't seem to think straight anymore. 

I think that I'm the monster


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I don't know if he's a monster. I don't want to make myself out to be this victim. That's what he's accused me of doing in the past. I can't seem to think straight anymore.
> 
> I think that I'm the monster


You're not a monster. You have a husband who has belittled you for years. You have depression. You made a mistake. 

Emotionally abusive people often leave you feeling hopelessly confused about what's happened. Feeling like you can't think straight is so, so common. I know that feeling well. Please get help and take care of yourself.

Also, my dear friend got married at 40 and had her first baby at 42. Or you could adopt, or conceive with donor sperm, or foster... there are so many ways to be a mom.

I'm so sorry you had a miscarriage. Please talk to someone about how you're feeling.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I've an appt on Tuesday with my therapist. It will be good to get some help from a professional. I can't trust my head these days. I'm across the country from any support network of friends, so that makes this difficult as well. 

I never thought that I would be the type to break my marriage vows so explicitly. I committed the ultimate sin. I guess I'm mourning the loss of a possible fairy tale (I know that there's no such thing...but I really, really wanted it.)


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I've an appt on Tuesday with my therapist. It will be good to get some help from a professional. I can't trust my head these days. I'm across the country from any support network of friends, so that makes this difficult as well.
> 
> I never thought that I would be the type to break my marriage vows so explicitly. I committed the ultimate sin. I guess I'm mourning the loss of a possible fairy tale (I know that there's no such thing...but I really, really wanted it.)


I'm SO GLAD you're seeing your therapist on Tuesday! Excellent news. I'm sorry you're so far from support, that really sucks. Can you get outside into some sunlight at least? 

I understand how you feel about the loss of the fairy tale. I'm Catholic, so divorcing my H would be one of the worst things I could do, religion-wise. The helpful thing about being Catholic though is that pretty much _everything _is a sin, so you get used to it.  

Everyone wants the fairy tale. I think the true fairy tale is getting yourself to the place where you don't need the classic one any more. But that doesn't make for a good movie, so you see the romantic comedy version much more often.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I've an appt on Tuesday with my therapist. It will be good to get some help from a professional. I can't trust my head these days. I'm across the country from any support network of friends, so that makes this difficult as well.
> 
> I never thought that I would be the type to break my marriage vows so explicitly. I committed the ultimate sin. I guess I'm mourning the loss of a possible fairy tale (I know that there's no such thing...but I really, really wanted it.)


Good - glad to hear your going to do that. It must be hard being away from your support system - sorry about that. You are in mourning but from what you have said you were not living a fairy tale - but you can still achieve a great life if you just get the help you need. There is so much more out there for you!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> So be strong and act like I don't care?


Be strong. But don't act like you do not care. Be genuine. Act the way you really feel. Let him know that you know what you did was wrong. You feel terrible that you did something that hurt him so much. But you love him and would like work on marital reconciliation if he is willing to give you another chance.

After that it's up to him. You have to give him the space to determine if he wants to reconcile.


Where are you staying right now? Why are you not in your own home with him?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

The more I read, the more I believe that your subconscience has taken over the lead into a new, and better, life for yourself. Thus, your rational self mourns the loss of the marriage, while something in you goes the other direction. You're just not quite in tune with it, and a bit confused. Some call it gut feeling. Follow it, explore it, and don't overthink it. Part of you already knows what you need to do to heal, and grow. That part led you to this affair, because that part already got that your husband and you are not a good match. 

You have a wonderful opportunity now to nurture yourself, learn to love yourself, and establish boundaries. This is your time!! Growth means leaving that comfort zone, and making it larger. Not easy at first, but ultimately very rewarding, and self-esteem-inducing!

As for your support system, or lack thereof, I am in the same boat. Are there any groups you could join, a divorce support group, or some interest group, or maybe even take a class, pottery, knitting...something you always wanted to do? 

Your husband knows that he holds all the power, and uses that to his advantage to manipulate you. He seems to concern himself very little about your needs and feelings, and that will most likely not change, not now, nor in ten years.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> Maybe I am. 9 months ago, we lost a baby. He was not upset, and I haven't let it go. We had tried for 3 years, and were at a point where I thought he could not get me pregnant (he refused to get checked).


I had 2 pregnancies in my mid 30's. The first ended in a miscarriage. The second ended in the still birth of twins. After the last pregnancy I could not have children due to a very bad infection that I got from the birth. So my husband and I applied to adopt. 18 months later we adopted our son. He was 10 days old. I was 40. My son is 24 now and in college. There is no difference in love between raising your own bio child or an adopted child.

There are many ways to form a family. Women do have healthy children in their 40's now. Or you can adopt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> I did try, for a long time. I went to therapy for a long time, took anti-anxiety pills, read all of these relationship guides, trying to fix things. I tried to make him see that he scared me sometimes, with the yelling and the bullying. He wanted to control everything, even down to the side businesses that I have.
> 
> He has a terrible temper, and to me, meek person that I am, he was very frightening when he was angry. I have said before that I dislike conflict, and try to resolve it quickly. He seems to love to fight, and won't give up until he has "won."
> 
> I'm still terrified. Sitting in the house that we bought a year ago, looking at our decorations, the memories, it's just so depressing.


If you came here and told us about how your husband was treating you before your affair, the advice you would have gotten was to leave him. No one has the right to treat another person this way.

My son's father treated me the same way. He also cheated on me. When I finally left him I told him that at that point his affairs did not matter to me. I was leaving him because I did not like the way he treated me.

The very foundation of your marriage was/is broken. If he agreed to give your marriage another chance, my advice to you will be to not take that chance. Why go back to an verbally/emotionally abusive man? He owns his abusiveness.

Why would you want to go back to this marriage? Why put yourself through this. You can find a man who loves you and treats you well. And you can have children... either your own bio children or adopted children. 

Many times people have affairs as an exit strategy to leave a marriage they do not have the strength to leave otherwise.

With the affair you exited your marriage. Maybe you need to just keep walking.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Its been a while since we've heard from you - are you okay?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Its been a while since we've heard from you - are you okay?


I'm okay. Saw H. He said that he would like me to move out for a couple of months while he thinks things over.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm okay. Saw H. He said that he would like me to move out for a couple of months while he thinks things over.


Not a god way to work on things as a couple but he might need the space.

Now is the time to decide what you really want???

Do you really love him?

Is he the guy you really want to be married to and have a family with?

And why on earth do you want to learn how to fight fairly in a relationship?

It sounds like all you guys really know how to do is fight.....

You seriously need to evaluate your marriage and future.

*Keep being honest with him but with yourself as well.*

Hm64


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm okay. Saw H. He said that he would like me to move out for a couple of months while he thinks things over.


As long as you're ok. I think you really need to focus on yourself now. I think you'll be better off the long run.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I just wish that I had left him without humiliating him this way.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

It was a mistake - we all make them - we learn & move on. Its only bad if you repeat them. Stop beating yourself up over it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Hope you're doing ok this morning. You seem to have been doing a little better yesterday afternoon.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I saw him yesterday, and we talked, mainly about how everything was my fault. 

I received an email from him this morning further outlining how he was the best husband ever. 

Maybe I am just as bad as he says.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

In another way, I almost wonder if he's gaslighting me. He comes from a family of narcissitics. 

Maybe I'm just trying to not own up to my mistakes.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> In another way, I almost wonder if he's gaslighting me. He comes from a family of narcissitics.
> 
> Maybe I'm just trying to not own up to my mistakes.
> 
> Ummm -NO!! Ive heard you own up to your mistakes since you came on this board. You hit the nail on the head - hes a narcissist & I'm not trying to insult you but you seem codependant. You're pinning your self worth on him and taking all the blame that trust me - he should be sharing. If he thinks the way he treated you was fair then he is more messed up than you think. Please know -no matter what he tells you -this is not all your fault!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I saw him yesterday, and we talked, mainly about how everything was my fault.
> 
> I received an email from him this morning further outlining how he was the best husband ever.
> 
> Maybe I am just as bad as he says.


Give him his space - hes hurt but don't let him railroad you into believing everything was your fault & he was the worlds greatest husband. You are not a bad person


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Give him his space - hes hurt but don't let him railroad you into believing everything was your fault & he was the worlds greatest husband. You are not a bad person


I really want to bring up something, but I dare not. He has been midnight texting with a female co-worker that I know had a crush on him in the past (might still...maybe not). I'd love to see what was in those messages, but if I bring that up...can of worms. And I'm afraid because he'll go ballistic.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> There were problems in the relationship, and we never fought fairly. I have pretty serious depression, and he treated me sometimes as though that was a handicap to a successful life. He was derogatory about my career (he has a super fantastic career as a scientist, whereas I'm a lowly tech writer). He was also somewhat emotionally abusive.
> 
> The AP was just someone I worked with that I clicked with. He was my only friend here (we moved here because of H's job). He said all the right things, and it was like a drug, the attention. And I guess I was vulnerable, and I took his stupid bait. Not excusing my actions...I'm an adult and I did something wrong....now I'm paying for it.


Hey don't put down being a tech writer.  I've done that for years, and although now it's not my primary vocation, I can say there's not a scientist around whose work means anything to the general populace without a good tech writer being there to make sense of it. So good on ya! :smthumbup:


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I really want to bring up something, but I dare not. He has been midnight texting with a female co-worker that I know had a crush on him in the past (might still...maybe not). I'd love to see what was in those messages, but if I bring that up...can of worms. And I'm afraid because he'll go ballistic.


You shouldn't be afraid to bring it up - no wonder hes so quick to blame you for everything - hes could be guilty himself!! From what your saying about his personality - your right he'll probably go ballistic most likely because hes been caught. When I caught my ex in a lie about where he had been the weekend of my birthday he went nuts - even broke his reading glasses - in hindsight it was well worth calling him out when I had the chance.
Knowing about what hes been up to - do you see now that this is not all your fault? With the way hes pushing all the blame on you & making himself out to be so great - I would have called him out on those text messages right away! So what if it opens up a can of worms -


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> I really want to bring up something, but I dare not. He has been midnight texting with a female co-worker that I know had a crush on him in the past (might still...maybe not). I'd love to see what was in those messages, but if I bring that up...can of worms. And I'm afraid because he'll go ballistic.


Um, you have to bring this up.

It sounds like he was/is having at least an emotional affair. How long has he been involved with her? This is getting worse as you tell us more. 

Tell him that he needs to come clean about his relationship with this woman.

On the other hand... you have said that you need to leave him. So why are you trying to fix the marriage? I think you are very confused.

Step back for a bit and think about this..... maybe this is the time to just tell him that you are sorry you cheated. You know that he also had an affair with the woman at his work. You feel that he was very emotionally abusive. You will not allow yourself to be treated as he treated you. The marriage is over.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

If she had a crush on him and he's midnight texting, that's more than a crush. It could be what TAM terms an "RA" (revenge affair). It sounds to me like the guy is pretty self centered, so he may be thinking "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" and went out to get even. 

Very childish, very cruel and stupid. You DON'T deserve that treatment, either.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Um, you have to bring this up.
> 
> It sounds like he was/is having at least an emotional affair. How long has he been involved with her? This is getting worse as you tell us more.
> 
> ...


He has been texting her a lot for almost a year now. I've asked him about it, and he always says that no, they are just good friends. I have never seen what he texts her. Maybe I was afraid of what I would find. 

She moved in with us for a week because she claimed that she was afraid of the roommate she was living with. There were some late night chats between them while I was sleeping.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

doubletrouble said:


> If she had a crush on him and he's midnight texting, that's more than a crush. It could be what TAM terms an "RA" (revenge affair). It sounds to me like the guy is pretty self centered, so he may be thinking "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" and went out to get even.
> 
> Very childish, very cruel and stupid. You DON'T deserve that treatment, either.


No, he did not have a revenge affair. His started almost a year before veronica's affair.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> He has been texting her a lot for almost a year now. I've asked him about it, and he always says that no, they are just good friends. I have never seen what he texts her. Maybe I was afraid of what I would find.
> 
> She moved in with us for a week because she claimed that she was afraid of the roommate she was living with. There were some late night chats between them while I was sleeping.


There is more going on there - that's why he is dumping all the blame on you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

veronicawalls said:


> He has been texting her a lot for almost a year now. I've asked him about it, and he always says that no, they are just good friends. I have never seen what he texts her. Maybe I was afraid of what I would find.
> 
> She moved in with us for a week because she claimed that she was afraid of the roommate she was living with. There were some late night chats between them while I was sleeping.


Well they are most likely having an affair all this time. Too bad you did not look.

You are in the house right now. Look through his stuff. See if there are any notes, cards, etc from her.

Check his cell phone bill. See how many times he txts her a month. How much he talks to her on his cell.

Check the bank statments and credit card statements and see if she's spending on an affair.

I would also check his email. 

There is a rule in marriage. A wife should never, ever allow a single woman to move into the home. This sort of thing ends in an affair very often. (same for a single guy moving in)


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Well they are most likely having an affair all this time. Too bad you did not look.
> 
> You are in the house right now. Look through his stuff. See if there are any notes, cards, etc from her.
> 
> ...


I know...I thought that I was being supportive of his friend. It was kind of funny. The first time that I ever saw him gung-ho about cleaning the place was when she was moving in. 

Maybe I blew it all out of proportion. Maybe they are just friends...or he liked her, but now he doesn't. I also wonder...was he spying on my phone (which is how everything came out) because he was trying to find something to absolve something he had done? I'm so confused.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Just got a text. He wants to work on things with a MC.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I know...I thought that I was being supportive of his friend. It was kind of funny. The first time that I ever saw him gung-ho about cleaning the place was when she was moving in.
> 
> Maybe I blew it all out of proportion. Maybe they are just friends...or he liked her, but now he doesn't. I also wonder...was he spying on my phone (which is how everything came out) because he was trying to find something to absolve something he had done? I'm so confused.


No I don't think you did. I really don't think they were just friends - there are red flags all over that situation and yes - it certainly seems like he was fishing around trying to find something you did wrong. Is there any way you can do some fishing around of your own?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Just got a text. He wants to work on things with a MC.


Really?? Why do you think he has this change in attitude?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Really?? Why do you think he has this change in attitude?


Maybe seeing me made him realize that we should work on things? 

I wish I had better detective skills. He works in security, so he's far better at sneaky than I am.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

See , now what if you would have done the unthinkable. You both have a lot of ground to cover. MC will be good. I could only fathom the thought of my H actually manning up and allowing MC. So go. Do the work and maybe you guys can live happily ever after. I wish you allthe best. Keep us posted on the progress TAM loves success stories


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Husband just asked for a legal separation.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Wow, talk bout mixed signals? He is open to MC, but wants to move forward on a separation ageement? Have you asked him how these two actions seem contradictory -- what does he want out of MC and for what purpose is the Separation Agreement? What is his agenda and intentions for both?

Best,- A12


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Wow, talk bout mixed signals? He is open to MC, but wants to move forward on a separation ageement? Have you asked him how these two actions seem contradictory -- what does he want out of MC and for what purpose is the Separation Agreement? What is his agenda and intentions for both?
> 
> Best,- A12


I'm a little baffled myself, I guess. The guilt is overwhelming me right now. 

His brother (his family pretty has hated me from the start) suggested the legal separation, and told him that he was a fool for considering working things out.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Husband just asked for a legal separation.


That's not the end of the world ya know ? Though im sure it's not what you want . But it may be good for you both under the circumstances. Separate while attending MC and maybe even some IC. To sort out the issues at hand , as well as those that preceded the current situation. That way when you all come back together, you do it equipped with what you need to never have to end up in this way again. He needs to know though that he should keep his friends and family out of his business. He'll never accomplish anything listening to bitter people who have ulterior motives.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You said yesterday you have a counceling session for yourself tomorrow - are you keeping that appointment because I think you should - do it for yourself!! Also if hes asking for a legal seperation make sure you talk to an attorney before you sign anything.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> You said yesterday you have a counceling session for yourself tomorrow - are you keeping that appointment because I think you should - do it for yourself!! Also if hes asking for a legal seperation make sure you talk to an attorney before you sign anything.


Yes, I'm keeping it. I feel so guilty and horrible. I just want to die because of the pain and embarrassment that I have caused him.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Stop it - again I don't care what he says - you are not all at fault - you made a mistake & I really think if you can dig into his things you'll see he was no angel. He also has not treated you well at all. Honestly I think you would be better off without him. Become a stronger person & a person who is happy. Hes still playing games - one minute mc the next legal seperation. I'm glad to hear you're keeping that appointment for yourself.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

M


veronicawalls said:


> Yes, I'm keeping it. I feel so guilty and horrible. I just want to die because of the pain and embarrassment that I have caused him.


I sure wish I lived near you. You need a heart to heart down south sista girl talk! Hundreds of people did not wake up this morning. Some had bright futures, families that love them, even other lives depending on them...yet they did not wake up. Or woke up but will not make it to see tomorrow. Stop making your life seem so disposable, there is a reason why you're still here. Is it to work on your marriage, is it to go through all this as you will be helping someone else with it later in life, is it to even strengthen your marriage before you all bring kids into it, who knows. But at least give life a chance. We've all made mistakes and experience things that just dont feel good to us. But we can't give up. My H is a confusing conflicting mess right now. Im depressed, lost my mom almost my kids, a grandkid on the way , no job...blah blah blah...but each day ,hour, minute I fight to search inside for a reason to live. I search until I can't no more. One thing most suicidal people cant give you is a valid reason to die. If contact with him keeps causing this feeling in you , forget 180 go NC on him. You have to know you are valuable and indeed have many reasons to keep on keeping on. 
Keep posting, venting, whatever. The support is here in abundance. But know this man coming home to you STILL wont make you truly happy. It'll give you what you want but you wont be happy. not with these issues still lingering. You're gonna wonder is he seeking revenge ( texts with the friend ) , does he trust me, will he leave again ??? All of these questions in a unstable emotional state will drive you nuts. Don't let it. Trust me..been there done that have a T shirt to prove it. Take control of you, your destiny, your happiness, and maybe even bask in a little of the freedom of separation. Remember, only you can prevent forest fires...dont let thw fire of your bright future be diminished to mere ashes.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Honestly, I just want to stop hurting him. If it would hurt him less to just end things now, that's what I would do. He was so sad on the phone. I just feel so desolated.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Honestly, I just want to stop hurting him. If it would hurt him less to just end things now, that's what I would do. He was so sad on the phone. I just feel so desolated.


I know you are concerned with his feelings but after hearing your story he wasn't an angel - hes hurting because you went outside the marriage but there a good possibility he did also. The difference is you got caught because he searched through your things. I would love to know what you would find out if you did your own detective work. He also pretty much ran your self esteem right into the ground. His life isn't worth more than yours. I was cheated on & left &I'm still standing - I'm sure he will too.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I want to get the text messages, but it takes a court order because of the laws protecting text messages. 

I am going to bring it up in MC.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I want to get the text messages, but it takes a court order because of the laws protecting text messages.
> 
> I am going to bring it up in MC.


Wait - how did he get into your stuff? You do have to bring it up in mc


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

He routed them to be delivered to his ipad.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

and


veronicawalls said:


> Honestly, I just want to stop hurting him. If it would hurt him less to just end things now, that's what I would do. He was so sad on the phone. I just feel so desolated.


Thousands of us here love our husbands just as much as you love yours, many have done what you did as far as infidelity, many have been the one betrayed, many have no idea why their significant other has walked away. This puts you to a great advantage that he is even communicating with you. They call us the Lucky ones i've learned. 
I keep seeing you say HIM, HIS, HE, what about YOU ???!! Is he equally as distraught about you finding out about his "friend" that you won't even talk to him about ? Why hell no , to be honest, he could very well be using this as a avenue to validate his and her unnecessary friendship. In marriage sweetie (at least it was in mine ) there is no his/her opposite sex friend. Oh nooo sweetie she's gonna have to be OUR friend. If she texting him..then my phone needs to be chirping off to with that same text coming to my phone. We all friends,.right...so I need to be in the friend zone with those texts too. See what you need is to get mad. Real mad at least once . Then maybe some of the realities of what youbare going through will make more sense to you. He is sooooo not innocent in this;yet he is still abusing you by allowing the weight of this to be on your shoulders. And you're letting him. 

You are worried about how you've embarrassed him... he is a big boy if the union is worth it he will get over it. He hasn't seen embarrassed. ..Hillary Clinton walks into the very White House that she and her family lived in and that Bill got head in..that the whole flipping world knew about. That sista kept her head held high, stood by her man, and then came back with a position higher than what she started out with. Remember at first she was only First Lady...ye ah its ok but it wasn't enough for a purpose driven, smart woman, who knew her worth...with or without Bill. Women are strong and you are woman. You gotta reach in and pull out what is somewhere suppressed inside you. You have allowed. Him to rob you of this, take it back !! If you don't or can't you will end up with an even bigger issue. Doormat. He knows how torn you are, how much you want this marriage. You are gonna give him all the power to be all that he wants to be and give only minimal thought to what matters the most to you because he knows ...you'll be there waiting for whenever he's ready to deal with you. You don't want that jind of marriage, right ? Well let him know you love him, agree with him on how hurt he is, im sure it did hit him hard. However, the things he did before your mess up... is not somewhere hiding under a rug...unless you let it go there. That's where he has it at. You're the woman of the 
house. We do most of the cleaning. 
Pick that rug up, shake it out, beat it good. I guarantee that you will find PLENTY of crumbs he has lurking there too. Make him own them as you are owning yours. Easier said than done. But it can be done. Then maybe, just maybe together you all can shampoo that rug once and for all and stop eating in the room of brokenness that allows crumbs to be swept and buried under the rug. 
Nobody said it would be easy. Im just saying its attainable, but you even as a woman are gonna have to grow some balls..and take back whats been stolen from you. When you realize he is not your whole world, he'll see then you are a remorseful, loving , caring girl that he loves. All his with a lil work


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Veronica - I'm finally at the point where I can say, as much as I have an emotional connection, sadness, loss, guilt and even love for my ex - that I don't want him back. He was not up for the work of a marriage, and that will always sit with me. 

Marriage takes work. Sounds like your H didn't want to work on things either. Affairs don't have to end things but it sounds like you were doing everything else that you could before the affair. If there is a way forward, it will need to be with you both on your own feet, coming together. Right now you're on your knees. Get up, dust yourself off, and try really really hard to forgive yourself. You haven' done anything so wrong that it deserves the beating you're giving yourself. Love you. Then see about loving him.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

A few more points that I am going to bring up during the MC that have plagued our marriage. 

1. He made sure to relay every single terrible thing that his family said about me. The ensured that there was a rift between his family and I. I kind of think now he was using it as a passive agressive mouthpiece to voice his dissatisfaction with things. Or put me in my place. 

2. Denial. He never, never owns up to his wrongdoings, unless I have him so dead to rights that there is no wiggle room. He is very good at manipulation and twisting things, and I'm terrible at it. So you can imagine that this has been a problem in the marriage.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

He sounds like a bully from what you describe.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> He sounds like a bully from what you describe.


Oh, and 3. He told me repeatedly that I was too mentally unstable to ever had kids, and that's why he didn't want them. Considering all the work I've done, that hurt the most.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Sounds like my STBXH has an evil twin! If you could only try on the shoe of finality with this relationship, walk a few miles in it, and enjoy the fit and feel that you get.

There will be no more berating, belittling, needling you about your depression, talking down to you, and feeling inferior. You won't be anyone's scapegoat, and the best of all is: you are free to find someone with whom to have children!! Your children deserve a better dad than he is.


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## catch22gofigure (Apr 26, 2013)

Just checking in on ya  i do like what I see . Your thinking , thoughts that are gonna turn into actions to bring you some form of a resolution. Good girl ! See now you are starting to see and get out some stuff that will help you heal in one way or the other. Keep thinking, keep posting, and remember YOU ARE VALUABE !!


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## Pomlover (May 15, 2013)

I know exactly how you're feeling. My husband just discovered I've had an affair and wants divorce. I'm in therapy which is helping. But all the memories and hopes for the future are heartbreaking. Hang in there, exercising helps a bit.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I am sorry if I seem to be playing the victim. I am not.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

If you read her story from the beginning she is remorseful for what she did and as I told her - she did do wrong - she should have ended the marriage before she strayed. But as her story went on you see her husband was no angel either. I tried to explain that problems in a marriage are 50/50 but she chose to cheat. Now if you read further you see her husband had some shady dealings with a female co worker. So here's the bottom line - she made a gigantic life changing mistake that she was so despondent over she wasn't talking senseable. We tried to show her that killing herself was not the answer. We also said they both need some intense mc & ic- truth is they may not be able to work out their problems they seem to run pretty deep. 
I am a cheated on spouse whose husband left her so trust me this was hard for me to comment on this. But I think veronica knows she did wrong & shes trying to work on it.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

How are you Veronica? How was your counceling session?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

That's what I was trying to figure out. Truth is if hes that bad then leave. Some of the things she was saying bordered on abusive -then get out now. I didn't mean for it to sound like she was justified in what she did - there is no justification for it but I thought she saw she was wrong & felt badly about it. I took it more as a conversation she was having with us that she started to realize he wasn't a prince charming. She continued to list her faults in the beginning. I guess this can be seen in two different ways. Trust me as a left behind cheated on spouse I would never give my ex this much leeway to explain his affair.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Counseling went well. I think that for the both of us...it's better to go our separate ways. I've hurt him too much, and I don't want to hurt him any more.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Counseling went well. I think that for the both of us...it's better to go our separate ways. I've hurt him too much, and I don't want to hurt him any more.


If you feel that way then maybe it is for the best. I'm sure he is very hurt - but I think the failure of your marriage is on both of you. There was a lot of hurt on both sides. I think it may have been over long before you strayed outside the marriage. Use this time to work on your issues & make yourself a better person.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi VW - 

I'm glad you felt the counsleing was helpful. I know you feel remorseful about the affair and how much it hurt him, but as you indicated in a previous post, could it have been an exit strategy -- a way to create a reason to end the marriage you knew was not good for you, and take all the blame for it so he would be spared having to look at his own hurtful behaviors? Do you think maybe going your separate ways was the outcome you wanted? 

Are you both mutally agreed at this point, to end the marriage and are you at peace with that? Are you living apart already, or was there discussion in counseling of plans in that regard? It seems like this has all happened pretty quickly! But if you are both convinced it is for the best then maybe you're right. 

However, I agree with smallsteps, there was hurt on both sides -- don't get sucked into the victim-perpetrator-rescuer triangle.

Best Regards,- A12


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

ETA Removed comment supporting husband and added this, this poor woman has been mistreated by her husband.

I'm so sorry.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Dang, you are so right. Any suggestions for how I can painlessly and quickly end it?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Its been a while since you've posted - how are things going for you?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

He has been having an affair with the female co-worker for the past 1.5 years.


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

I just reread all your posts, I did not see this coming, I missed his potential (now real) affair, but you did mention it. This man has been more than cruel to you, I am so sorry.

I hope you find a place of peace and happiness you deserve it.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Nice of you to say so. I'm glad that you felt so bad for him.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> He has been having an affair with the female co-worker for the past 1.5 years.


Wow - so sorry about that. I'm figuring mine started the affair about a year before he left. I'ts amazing how well they can hide things & make excuses for whatever strange behavior is going on & we choose to believe what they tell us. How did you finally find out? Did he admit it? How are you doing now?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> He has been having an affair with the female co-worker for the past 1.5 years.


Hi Veronica -

What, now it turns out HE had an affair, and all this time you thought you were the only one responsible for the marital breakdown, because you had a fling?! Jeez, I'm sure this was rough to find out, but does it give you more clarity as to whether the marriage is too damaged to be repaired? This information should at least help you quit blaming yourself, since we now know he broke his vows, too. Right? I hope you are OK, and taking care of yourself!

Hugs, A12


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Sounds like he broke them long before she did.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

He admitted. Now he's wanting me to move back in, work things out, blah, blah, blah. Now that he was caught and admitted after insurmountable evidence. 

I don't know what to do. 

Mainly I just wanted to reassure all of the people on this thread calling for my crucifixion that I am indeed, miserable.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

All admissions on his behalf aside, and forget about the sidestepping as well for a moment, beyond all that, he treated you with disrespect, belittled you, badmouthed you with his family, and ignored your needs and well-being, he may not want kids with you, and uses you to make his feable self feel superior by putting you down on the basis of your clinical depression. In other words, he showed you what he is capable of when the going gets rough. 

Granted, I'm just an ******* on the internet, was not witness to your marriage, and just go by what you shared with us. Part of being married is having a loyal partner stick by your side during all times, good and bad ones. The only side he seems to stick on is his backside, with his head deep inside there. What about that is appealing to you?

What is it that makes it hard for you to be decisive? Is your depression being managed? I know that this may well be a factor that can potentially cloud your judgment. Do you have support from your own friends and family?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, so now you are both unfaithful.

The choice remains the same as before. He offered you a divorce.

You can D or you can stay and now both be faithful. What do you choose?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> He admitted. Now he's wanting me to move back in, work things out, blah, blah, blah. Now that he was caught and admitted after insurmountable evidence.
> 
> I don't know what to do.
> 
> Mainly I just wanted to reassure all of the people on this thread calling for my crucifixion that I am indeed, miserable.


The problem is was that some people didn't read your thread from the beginning. As you revealed more &more of your story to us the true story began to come out. 
As for what to do - now that you're aware of what truly was going on what do you want him back? Before he was found out he was more than happy to put this whole thing on you.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm just very angry right now.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm just very angry right now.


I cant blame you. You've had a lot to process in a short amount of time


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Please go away. I think you have your pound of flesh.


Hi Veronica -

In defense of GP, I don't think meant to be mean. He's a good guy. There're can sometimes be tough love on TAM, but it's just advice -- we can take it or leave it. Hope you are OK, and have some supportive people around to be there for you as you figure out what's right for you.

Your anger is very understandable -- the whole time he let you take them blame, while he was unfaithful himself, and know he wants you back? That's messed up. Are you guys in MC, or are you ready to be done? 

Best, A12


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm just very angry right now.


Anger can be good. It shows that you recognize that he treated you badly, and that you resent that.

You both cheated, that's your common denominator. How you handle such a mistake is very revealing about the person behind it. Just look at the different ways you both dealt with the fallout.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Doesn't really matter. I'm sad because it is very near the time our child was to be born (I had a miscarriage in September -- he was completely unsupportive). 

I loved that nobody.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Doesn't really matter. I'm sad because it is very near the time our child was to be born (I had a miscarriage in September -- he was completely unsupportive).
> 
> I loved that nobody.


I know that feeling - mine was due in December of '06. Im sorry for your loss. I think its only a feeling we know because we bonded with that baby as soon as we find out we're pregnant. That was a baby you were carrying. Its something you need to mourn.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I think that I'm never going to have children. And I blame him now. Irrational, I suppose, but he doesn't want them, didn't want the pregnancy, and now I feel overwhelmed with starting again. 

I'm sorry to seem self-pitying.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I think that I'm never going to have children. And I blame him now. Irrational, I suppose, but he doesn't want them, didn't want the pregnancy, and now I feel overwhelmed with starting again.
> 
> I'm sorry to seem self-pitying.


In this case I think you have every right to but remember you're 37 & still have a lot of options out there. Look into them.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I guess i should look into artificial insemination. Not sure that I'm in a mental state to do any of that at the moment.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I guess i should look into artificial insemination. Not sure that I'm in a mental state to do any of that at the moment.


No one said you have to do it tomorrow & 6 months to a year can make a huge difference of where you can be mentally in your life. Or you could choose to freeze embryos ( depending on your financial situation) or even adoption. Just know there are options out there.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I wish that I had left him when he tore out the nursery to make a game room for Dungeons and Dragons.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I wish that I had left him when he tore out the nursery to make a game room for Dungeons and Dragons.


Don't waste your time looking back at this point - it just takes up precious time - that's one thing ive learned. We cant undo what's already done. Just start moving forward from this point on.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Don't waste your time looking back at this point - it just takes up precious time - that's one thing ive learned. We cant undo what's already done. Just start moving forward from this point on.


I guess not. I have cried all weekend.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

It happens - I spent every weekend from the day in January when he left until sometime in march crying. I still have bad days here & there - not necessarily over him but over the situation. It will get better I can tell you that. Just try & keep busy. Get out of the house - do something you always wanted to do but couldn't because of him


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

When I'm really bummed, regardless of the cause, and I feel like I don't want to do anything, other than just vegetate, I *force* myself to get moving. And then do something, a chore, exercise, read, watch a funny show or movie...whatever it is. It gives me my momentum back. And my focus shifts from the toxic situation that bothers me to the activities at hand. Even if it's just a for a little while. It gives the good brain chemicals a little boost.

Look at it from another angle: it is your obligation towards yourself to heal yourself, starting *now*. This increases your chances of finding someone worth keeping, and having kids with, rather sooner than later. (Personally, I think you're a spring chicken, at your age, but if you feel that old, there's no time to procrastinate, and take care of Veronica NOW.)


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

seagoat said:


> When I'm really bummed, regardless of the cause, and I feel like I don't want to do anything, other than just vegetate, I *force* myself to get moving. And then do something, a chore, exercise, read, watch a funny show or movie...whatever it is. It gives me my momentum back. And my focus shifts from the toxic situation that bothers me to the activities at hand. Even if it's just a for a little while. It gives the good brain chemicals a little boost.
> 
> Look at it from another angle: it is your obligation towards yourself to heal yourself, starting *now*. This increases your chances of finding someone worth keeping, and having kids with, rather sooner than later. (Personally, I think you're a spring chicken, at your age, but if you feel that old, there's no time to procrastinate, and take care of Veronica NOW.)


I'm trying really hard. Weekends are bad, because there is time to wallow. Workdays are actually much easier.


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## philglossop (Apr 22, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm trying really hard. Weekends are bad, because there is time to wallow. Workdays are actually much easier.


Understand that totally. Weekends are the same for me- but I have friends round and I cook a good olde British Roast Beef dinner- get some wine and we watch some comedies I've recorded from the TV. That covers Sunday.

Saturday, well I've been going to football (soccer for you!) but now it's cricket season I can take my four paws and lie in the sun all day.

It's breaking the old patterns. Hard, but you'll get used to the new pattern!


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I used exercise and stayed away from booze on the weekends when I did not have the kids. They were the worst for me.

Here's a good read.

http://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-happiness-tips-for-people-who-have-been-hurt/


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

philglossop said:


> Understand that totally. Weekends are the same for me- but I have friends round and I cook a good olde British Roast Beef dinner- get some wine and we watch some comedies I've recorded from the TV. That covers Sunday.
> 
> Saturday, well I've been going to football (soccer for you!) but now it's cricket season I can take my four paws and lie in the sun all day.
> 
> It's breaking the old patterns. Hard, but you'll get used to the new pattern!


Yeah, like seagoat said, I'm going to focus on all of the stuff that I was not allowed to do while married, or that he was simply not interested in. I plan on getting some friends to go to Mexico (I live in San Diego, so not a huge trip) and eating some fresh lobster. Small dream, but my ex was deathly afraid of anything not 'Merican, so I never got to go.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> I used exercise and stayed away from booze on the weekends when I did not have the kids. They were the worst for me.
> 
> Here's a good read.
> 
> 10 Happiness Tips for People Who Have Been Hurt | Tiny Buddha


Thanks GP. That is a good read.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Thanks GP. That is a good read.


It's my new less blunt....more compassionate persona. 


I tend to forget the pain I endured as I am 8 months removed from Dday.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> It's my new less blunt....more compassionate persona.
> 
> 
> I tend to forget the pain I endured as I am 8 months removed from Dday.


It's a survival thing. We heal. Forgetting is good.  Hugs to you.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

H and I talked tonight. He wants a divorce. Blamed everything on me, and I feel horrible, but realized this is more of his manipulation at work. 

He claims that he and GF broke up.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> H and I talked tonight. He wants a divorce. Blamed everything on me, and I feel horrible, but realized this is more of his manipulation at work.
> 
> He claims that he and GF broke up.


Good for you for realizing that & sorry hes blaming everything on you - don't feel horrible - you full well know the breakdown of a marriage is not 100% anyones fault both sides share the blame. Hes just playing games - stay strong!!


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm trying. I think that I'm mourning the past, the good times, rather than the actual relationship at this point.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> I'm trying. I think that I'm mourning the past, the good times, rather than the actual relationship at this point.


It happens - just don't get stuck in the mourning process. When I used to find myself doing that id usually counter it with a thought about what wasn't so great about our marriage - that does work & it keeps you from sugarcoating the memories - which can happen. Then it will send you into a downward spiral which you don't want to do.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

The downward spiral happened this weekend. Found out that my family has been secretly sending him supportive messages, which really bothers me. I guess that they mean well, but it makes me feel even more like I'm an evil person that deserves to be miserable.

I very seriously considered suicide this weekend.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> The downward spiral happened this weekend. Found out that my family has been secretly sending him supportive messages, which really bothers me. I guess that they mean well, but it makes me feel even more like I'm an evil person that deserves to be miserable.
> 
> I very seriously considered suicide this weekend.


Are you in counseling?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

yes, I am in counseling.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Veronica - Seriously, that thinking is your depression talking. As GP suggests, I hope you are getting the help and support you need to address it. Know that whatever you are feeling, it will pass -- just give it time to see how things play out. Also, your whole world is not just about what is going on with your marriage. There are many more facets to you. Please consider that you had a life before you ever met you spouse -- go back and take a look at who you were during the happiest times of your life before getting married. Life is short, there are too many things to do, to learn, to experience, to contribute, to enjoy! 

Hang in there, take off the shades and put on the rose colored glasses, OK? 

Warmly, - A12


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

You will get thru this .... You will be happy again. 

Focus on the good things. When negativity sets in, stop what 
you are doing and go do something else. 

Are you getting out and socializing with friends? 

If you drink or use drugs, STOP.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> You will get thru this .... You will be happy again.
> 
> Focus on the good things. When negativity sets in, stop what
> you are doing and go do something else.
> ...


Part of the issue is that I have no friends out here. I'm from the East Coast, moved out here to the West Coast because of his job 3.5 years ago. It's been an incredibly hard adjustment. A lot of people on the WC are "single serving friends" that you have coffee with once, and are fine with saying hi to you, but it goes no further. 

I'm sorry, I'm whining. I don't do drugs or booze. Too many bad chemicals in my brain as it is.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Part of the issue is that I have no friends out here. I'm from the East Coast, moved out here to the West Coast because of his job 3.5 years ago. It's been an incredibly hard adjustment. A lot of people on the WC are "single serving friends" that you have coffee with once, and are fine with saying hi to you, but it goes no further.
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm whining. I don't do drugs or booze. Too many bad chemicals in my brain as it is.


Everyone needs a support group. That is how I found myself here on TAM. I moved like you away from family and friends. 
You must correct this issue. If you live in a metropolitan area, try the meetup.com groups. Coffee shops or book stores but you got to get out of the house some.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Everyone needs a support group. That is how I found myself here on TAM. I moved like you away from family and friends.
> You must correct this issue. If you live in a metropolitan area, try the meetup.com groups. Coffee shops or book stores but you got to get out of the house some.


Yeah, I am trying to keep busy. As I said before, the weekends are the most dreadful. 

I am going to see my therapist after work today, and I am going to tell her about my collapse this weekend. Not sure that she'll say anything different than the people on this thread (there is no magic wand to make it go away), but I'm hoping that she has some insight.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Have you thought about moving back east?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I have thought about it. I want to, but I feel like I need to stay out here and see this through.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Think of what would make you feel better, make a plan and do it.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

H was talking about reconciliation. We went to marriage counseling, and everything opened up again. He started making demands and even the MC stated that he was very controlling. So now we're back to...somewhere? 

He's complaining about having to break contact with OW, while I am to essentially not call, text, or have any contact with the outside world. Maybe I'm victiming myself here (I think that I am). I guess I'm just using this space as a "think out loud" at the moment.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Veronica -

I can't imagine even contemplating a reconciliation until he breaks all contact with OW. 

But I understand your sentiment about staying there long enough to see this through.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Set your boundaries and stick to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm trying to wait this out. I'm thinking that eventually, a solution will present itself to me. I'm a pretty passive person, which is probably what got me into this mess in the first place. I should have demanded over a year ago that the shenanigans with OW stop.

She was sending him home with meals, buying him gifts, why didn't I see this coming?


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

V, you can't blame yourself for all his transgressions or for you not having a crystal ball. God, all of us on these pages have a million regrets but that still doesn't excuse his behavior.

To me it seems all very clear - he has to cut all ties with this woamn before you'll even discuss R. If you he won't, then you know what you have to do.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Bullwinkle said:


> *I can't imagine even contemplating a reconciliation until he breaks all contact with OW.*
> 
> .


:iagree:


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I don't know what will be harder: starting over, or staying with him with all of these problems.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I don't know what will be harder: starting over, or staying with him with all of these problems.


Don't do what's easy....Do what's right.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Don't do what's easy....Do what's right.


That's just it...I don't know what's right. I did so many wrong things...isn't it fair that I should be punished?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> That's just it...I don't know what's right. I did so many wrong things...isn't it fair that I should be punished?


Know your boundaries and stick to them.

POSOW has got to go! Period.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Yeah, she does. 

The other problem is that we are already starting to argue our old arguments. Sigh


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

V, the old arguments, that's normal, we've all done it. it seems to me, again, very simple.

1. H dumps POSOW like a bad habit.

2. Then you both go to MC to try and sort out these old issues, old arguments. 

3. If he refuses to do either, then you have to move on. No one is suggesting you gert in the car tonight and start driving east. You may well ned time to sort things out. H may need some time to dump her. But you set some time limit with your self, say 4 months from now. Whatever you think is reasonable. And you tell him you're thinking of leaving.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

We are living separately now. He says that he wants to work things out, but I have not moved back in (I've been out for a month now). He wants to hang out and "date" which I think is good, but when we fight, all of the old baggage comes up again. 

He has dumped OW (kind of, still friends with her on FB), but he kvetches about how he had to get rid of his friend. Sigh.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

If he's complaining about having to dump POSOW, that isn't good. But if he's interested in dating you, that is good.

V, I wouldn't do anything for a while. Do the 50,000 feet thing. You just need to give this time.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

what is the 50,000 feet thing?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> what is the 50,000 feet thing?


Sit back and watch what he does and not what he says.

Do not react to his drama or manipulation.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

He says he wants to work things out, but I am moved out (at his request). I feel like if we co-habitated, things would have worked out by now.

Now, everyone knows, there is embarrassment, shame, derision. I'm not sure if we can get past this...


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

V, if you want your marriage to survive, you will have to try and get past those things, the embarrassment, etc.

Screw what other people think.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Bullwinkle said:


> V, if you want your marriage to survive, you will have to try and get past those things, the embarrassment, etc.
> 
> Screw what other people think.


i know, your marriage is your marriage. Not everyone else's. I need to remember that.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

It also takes two committed people and I don't think
he's quite there yet. That's why you should sit back and
watch what he does and not what he says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Jumping in way late in the game, but the mention of distancing yourself also helps you not having to ride in tandem on a semi-recovering-yet-still-in-denial-and-still-wants-to-blame-you spouse. That is just too much emotional instability...and you will never gain yours if you expose yourself to it unnecessarily.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> Jumping in way late in the game, but the mention of distancing yourself also helps you not having to ride in tandem on a semi-recovering-yet-still-in-denial-and-still-wants-to-blame-you spouse. That is just too much emotional instability...and you will never gain yours if you expose yourself to it unnecessarily.


We see each other every day, so there's not a lot of distance. He gets very upset if I don't spend each evening with him, then go home to my apartment. I don't know why, but this feels unfair.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> We see each other every day, so there's not a lot of distance. He gets very upset if I don't spend each evening with him, then go home to my apartment. I don't know why, but this feels unfair.


Don't go over there if you don't want to. Let him get mad. Only go if YOU want to go.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> We see each other every day, so there's not a lot of distance. He gets very upset if I don't spend each evening with him, then go home to my apartment. I don't know why, but this feels unfair.


Yeah...that's too much of a rollercoaster. He needs to do his own emotional work...and you need the space and time to deal with your own recovery.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Don't go over there if you don't want to. Let him get mad. Only go if YOU want to go.


Thanks, my gut is telling me to give myself some space, but I'm trying to not listen to my gut. I've decided that it has sh!t for brains.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

MC is not going well at all. The MC has decided to take his side in all matters. Even when I told the story about the miscarriage, and him telling me to get an abortion. That was still all my fault. 

He's rallying everyone around him, and now refuses to admit he had an affair. 

I'm not sure if this can be saved.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

V

Try to focus on the positive. Do you love this guy or not? Do you want to be divorced, forever apart from him?

And I don't personally believe MC works very often.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I've told him no more marriage counseling. It does no good at all.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Sorry that MC was not a more fruitful and positive experience. So are you done and ready for it to be over, or are you going to hang in there and give it some more time? Wishing the best for you!

Cheers, - A12


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm trying to give it some time. He dropped a bomb on me last night, and essentially said that to make the marriage work, I would need to drop all activities outside of working and being his wife. No more theater (I'm an actor/singer as a hobby only), no outside friends unless he approves them, etc.

It's strange. I really want him to have outside interests. I think it's important that we have our own identities. he does not agree with this. Married people should be one unit. Is this really how it's supposed to be?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

No, your instincts are correct -- this "demand" sounds very unhealthy and controlling -- even symptomatic of abusiveness. It is odd that he would want to limit your interests -- did you ask him why he would request such a thing? Is it because he is afraid you'll cheat on him? That's baloney considering he did not exactly prove himself faithful in the marriage, and jhas acted abusively toward you. 

I think you deserve to be treated far better than this. I hope you will stand up for yourself -- set your boundaries and stick to them. Take care and good luck.

Best Wishes, A12


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Is he open to being under this amount of control? You both strayed correct? Why is he getting a free pass? I wouldn't agree to this at all.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

He is okay with being this controlled. At least, that is what he is saying. 

Is this how marriage is supposed to be?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> He is okay with being this controlled. At least, that is what he is saying.
> 
> Is this how marriage is supposed to be?


No....of course not. What you are describing is a prison.

You should BOTH be open books however. No phone passwords, no disappearances, full transparency.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Agreed.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I think that walking away might be my only option at this point.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

V

You know that you don't really want to walk away. 

Do you love this man or not?


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Lots of crazy this weekend. Possessiveness on his side. I'm not allowed to have a phone, but he has a phone, ipad, and laptop all password locked. I am to sit and wait quietly if he has to leave. If I take too long in the bathroom, I am to explain why.

This is a prison


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I am really wondering what it is you are trying to save. This is not a healthy relationship. Time to go and focus on building a life for yourself on your own outside of this toxic marriage. Enough is enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

veronicawalls said:


> Lots of crazy this weekend. Possessiveness on his side. I'm not allowed to have a phone, but he has a phone, ipad, and laptop all password locked. I am to sit and wait quietly if he has to leave. If I take too long in the bathroom, I am to explain why.
> 
> This is a prison


Time for you to pack it in & move on. That is no way to live - he doesn't want a wife he wants a possession - is that what you want to be? At this point you would be so much better off starting a wonderful fantastic journey without him!!!!


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> Lots of crazy this weekend. Possessiveness on his side. I'm not allowed to have a phone, but he has a phone, ipad, and laptop all password locked. I am to sit and wait quietly if he has to leave. If I take too long in the bathroom, I am to explain why.
> 
> This is a prison


Do not allow yourself to be treated this way. BOUNDARIES. 

You know what needs to be done.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Do not allow yourself to be treated this way. BOUNDARIES.
> 
> You know what needs to be done.


I do. And I'm ashamed to say that I'm afraid to be alone. I don't know why I am like this. Abusive childhood is probably a contributor. 

I don't think I'm ever going to be happy again.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I do. And I'm ashamed to say that I'm afraid to be alone. I don't know why I am like this. Abusive childhood is probably a contributor.
> 
> I don't think I'm ever going to be happy again.


When you are alone and happy. That's when you are ready for a healthy relationship. No shortcuts to happiness. Do the work. Find yourself.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> When you are alone and happy. That's when you are ready for a healthy relationship. No shortcuts to happiness. Do the work. Find yourself.


I know...and at 37, I should have this figured out by now. But I don't. 

I'm never going to have kids. And I worry I'll just continue this pattern of abusive relationships.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I know...and at 37, I should have this figured out by now. But I don't.
> 
> I'm never going to have kids. And I worry I'll just continue this pattern of abusive relationships.


Kids are wonderful. I can attest to that. They helped me immeasurably thru my suffering.

However, first things first, Drop the dead weight!


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

The other thing is that my family is really pressuring me to work things out. For some reason, they are taking his side in the whole thing, or are convinced that I'll fall on my face without him. Maybe they are right.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> The other thing is that my family is really pressuring me to work things out. For some reason, they are taking his side in the whole thing, or are convinced that I'll fall on my face without him. Maybe they are right.


Prove them wrong.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

veronicawalls said:


> I do. And I'm ashamed to say that I'm afraid to be alone. I don't know why I am like this. Abusive childhood is probably a contributor.
> 
> I don't think I'm ever going to be happy again.


Hi Veronica - 

There is a saying in French: "Mieux d'etre seul que mal accompanie" -- that is to say, "better to be alone than badly accompanied."

You are worthy of better! Whatever the root cause of your fears of leaving, you can figure that out later -- right now you need to protect yourself by extracting yourslef from a controlling, abusive, unhealthy relationship. 

Is there a Women's Resource Center you can access in your community? They can hook you up with guidance and support to take the necesary steps for moving forward with your life.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Best Wishes, - A12


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

Awakening2012 said:


> Hi Veronica -
> 
> There is a saying in French: "Mieux d'etre seul que mal accompanie" -- that is to say, "better to be alone than badly accompanied."
> 
> ...


I looked up the place, and the nearest one to me is 50 miles. 

In other, good news, I'm house sitting for the summer, and hoping to sublet my apt on airbnb to save some money.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

Tell your family to shove off. You are 37 years old...you can do this! 

I have friends who adopted a big bunch of siblings who were in foster care. They now have a whole gaggle of kids that adore them. Some are little and some are big (one just graduated from high school). But even big kids need love and adult guidance, and from what I can tell, they are great kids despite their difficult background. They don't look like their parents, but it doesn't matter because they now live in a house full of love. Life doesn't always go as planned, but that doesn't mean you've missed your chance at happiness.


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## veronicawalls (Apr 28, 2013)

I sure hope not. I feel like life is over for me.


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