# My Husband is a Belligerent Fool



## Peering_Within

I am in the process of trying to find my bearings in a toxic marriage. I have not given up hope for a better relationship and I want to keep my family intact (two children). My blood is boiling right now. I am attempting to separate myself from him physically at night--sleeping in a different building at our home. It isn't very comfortable, but I prefer it to being around the chaotic toxicity that we create. I spent late-night time with our kiddos after a pretty peaceful day (and sleeping in the other building for the last two nights). I went out there to resume sleeping out there and he was there smoking pot and cigarettes--inside the building with the window cracked. It is a building that we share as a family and there have been many discussions and agreements to smoke outside and "out the window" (dumb). He just doesn't care when no one is around and doesn't respect the rules we have decided upon. (!) I complained and asked him to be respectful. I also told him I needed the space. He refused and asked me to leave. He said he intended to use it to sleep. I told him this was always my plan and I had been there two nights already. He was watching YouTube loudly and smoking pot and that is his MO (until all hours). He claimed I was aggressive in "taking over the space". He then got up and lit a cigarette, half out of the door. As we discussed who would stay and I refused to leave but said he could stay if he turned the volume down and smoked outside, he closed the door and came in to smoke. I opened the door and he closed it again claiming he did not want to be cold. He continued to smoke and even seemed to blow smoke in my direction. He does this when angry. My heart is pounding, I am so mad. I opened a few more windows and he closed them. I got up and conceded the space. I told him "you win" and left. He was surprised. I usually am prepared to battle it out so I should be proud, but I am so mad. He wants his space to use his drugs and doesn't want a challenge. I wish I was brave enough to end this marriage. This does not resemble the man I married. I think I might cry. Wait, I may not have any tears left. This sucks.


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## Personal

Peering_Within said:


> Today was a fight that should have never happened. I want so badly to stop all the fights, to smile together, to be happy. I feel like an deluded teenager who remembers the great dating days. How lovely he was when he adored me and I adored him. We have been together since 2004, married since 2008, two children (boy-9 and girl-6). It is constant instability for us. He is so unhappy and says he has been for years. I delude myself into thinking we can fix it all, but he says it will never work. And we go back and forth about it. We cling to each other for moments (hours or even days) and then another conflict breaks out. I can't help myself from disagreeing with him at times. I can't stay quiet when I have to speak up, especially for the children. (He is a good father but overzealous at times. He seems unbalanced but has so much love for the children. I take it his childhood was chaotic and scary.)
> 
> So I am sleeping in our under construction guesthouse. I am away from my children. But it is worth it to be away from the conflict. There is so much to say. I get angry at romantic couples on television. I am so lonely. He says he doesn't want it to be over but he doesn't see any hope for us. He says he wants to be dead. He calls our home Hell. He is so unhappy and needs marijuana and cigarettes to get through the day. I wish he would stop but he is so excitable. We can't talk. He doesn't want counselling. I have gone for me in the past and find that journaling works better. He destroyed my last journal (after I destroyed his marijuana pipe). I wasn't angry but I should have been. I shouldn't have destroyed the pipe, but I hate who he has become over the years. I married a smart, fun man-who had so much life in him. He is now an anxious, angry, critical man. He has become verbally abusive over the years and does acknowledge that it isn't ideal, but doesn't really apologize for it. He isn't always this way but I can't forget the horrible he has said to me. I think he really feels that way all the time.
> 
> So here I am, trying to get some levity. I never wanted a divorce but he seems set on it. I am lonely and he scares me sometimes though he isn't physically violent. His toxic venting is pretty painful as it is. I'm not sure what my motivation is here. Just to share. I don't like talking to people in my life about these things. Things aren't easy for us as it is--financially, and I really don't want to give anyone in fodder to judge us. I don't plan on leaving either, though I think I must be fool to stay. I think people go through these things, but don't talk about it? That seems likely. I know this is unhealthy, but I don't have a lot of choices to change things.


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## Personal

Peering_Within said:


> You did respond to my other thread. I posted two because I am feeling particularly unsettled and am probably missing my journal too much. I am buying a new one today. Very helpful stuff.
> 
> We are more than edging to violence. Maybe keeping it at bay usually. There has been punctuated bits of it over the years. I have hit him, I have throw things. Not unprovoked-but I have. That is the reason I do not drink in excess and haven't for years. I am prone to violence.
> 
> He has gotten between me and doors, he has thrown things, he has gotten in front of my car when the children were in the car and when they weren't. He pursues, I flee, he stands in the way. That's the old pattern. Now he flees more (to marijuana and cigarettes and alone time).
> 
> He doesn't think counselling works. He thinks he can fix it. He says he has friends to talk to--he doesn't very often call people to talk though.





Peering_Within said:


> It's easy for my to villainize him but he is suffering. He is also not an unkind person. In fact, he can be very generous with himself and so kind. We are very different but I can see how wonderful he can be at times still. Unfortunately, I have become adverse to his suffering. His crying doesn't bother me and I am not sympathetic. I think my heart is hard to him because there have been so many years of pain. I feel uncared for and so I have a difficult time caring for him. It may be much easier to leave the mess and make a home in another relationship. Things can get so toxic (yes) and tangled that it is easy to do something else with someone else. I am very attached to this relationship. It is the one of my children and that matters to me. I am considering emotional separation while married. That is the unhappy default anyway. We both long for closeness, however. Then we attempt to get close, have a conflict, there is chaos. What a mess.


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## Personal

Peering_Within said:


> I may be asking for it, but maybe someone is willing to help me understand this. With all the years of conflict I should understand by now, but I can't help but doubt his perceptions. Here is the gist: My husband of fourteen years is at wits-end with our relationship. I am pretty confident he hasn't cheated. I haven't (though he believes I had an emotional affair two years ago with a gay male work colleague). This affected him greatly at the time and still does, as he thought I would never do that. He is unemployed by choice for six years (attempting to build a different life while I work and he cares for our two school-aged children). We have terrible communication (different love languages and almost at time literal languages--we are just so different). We can't seem to talk about our problems without arguing. He frequently becomes overwhelmed--what I would call emotional flooding--during our interactions. He relies on cigarettes and marijuana to deal with our relationship stress and the family stress. He says he wants to stop smoking cigarettes, but not marijuana. He was not a smoker at all when we married. He is prone to angry outbursts, has being verbally abusive to myself and borderline physical abusive, but generally knows he couldn't get away with it. I am not one to hold my tongue when he is aggressive, but I try to deescalate and call it out. He says he wants to move back to our home state, get his old job, and separate/divorce. I refuse divorce and claim I will make it difficult, but in reality I am all talk (I think). I simply won't concede a divorce. He has said I am keeping him against his will, then he tried to leave and came back, and he says he wants to stay married but doesn't like the conflict. (Neither do I.) It seems every time a problem happens he goes into crisis mode and wants to die (though he refuses that he is actually suicidal). This seems like catastrophic thinking to me. I wish he would level out and be positive. I think we can make it work and just stay calm. There is attraction, history, a family on our side.
> 
> What do you think? Is he crazy? Am I cruel? He thinks I am a narcissist that stays with him to watch him suffer. Really, we got together when we were so young, I never considered divorce, and I want my family to be together. I am afraid of letting him go and being alone. Seeing him happy with someone else. Getting with someone else and developing the same problems. Missing him.





Peering_Within said:


> I should also say that I am at wits-end with him too. He is frequently critical, seems to always be unhappy, doesn't provide much positive feedback about good behavior. I feel like he is always unhappy with me. I feel unsupported, lonely, sad. I try to stay positive and put one foot in front of the other. It can be very hard at times.





Peering_Within said:


> Laurentium, your words don't seem uncaring. There are not many other major complications (no drug use on my part, no infidelity on both parts, no other addictions). But the frequent damage we do to each other with the constant conflict is damaging us and the children. I know that is why he feels hopeless about it all.
> 
> He pushed hard for the decision to move and change. He says now he wasn't "going to make" there and was headed downward, though I don't know what he means. I was amenable to the change, but it has been so hard and I was naïve. He was the breadwinner before and my career was non-existent (mostly because I am somewhat directionless job-wise.) I have a degree but was unsure about what I wanted to do long-term. Basically I've diagnosed myself as insecure and lacking internal sense of control. Not uncaring but directionless perhaps. I cared for the children at home as I was not as active in the workforce before children. My job was low paying and I loved being there for my children. I think it was invaluable to them, but he is critical to this day about how I raised the children. Says I was too easy-going/lacking structure. He gave up his teaching job, cashed in his retirement to move after becoming disillusioned about government, the world, etc. I suppose this is other most complicating factor, actually. He really has become much more cynical since our youth. I can understand the perspective, but don't go in for the doom and gloom approach. I believe one should attempt to bring joy and hope to each day it able.
> 
> The flooding is a product of anxiety I think. I come from a legacy of codependency. My father had addiction issue (though functional and hidden from the family), my mother was codependent. There are a lot of issues on my mother's side (abuse, addiction, severe poverty). I know I have inherited traits of codependency. I did CODA for years and NARANON earlier on. It helped and I try to be aware of myself. I think early in the relationship my control patterns and abandonment issues scarred him, and he has suffered under them. I am sure I still do these things but not to the extent he fears.
> 
> Based on my mood, I attempt to deescalate the verbal abuse/verbal heat by asking for calming time, asking what is wrong, separating, not talking about issues when we're emotional, etc. I also, especially when he is heated around the children, call out the behavior to give them the words of it. I know they are young and can not discern healthy from unhealthy yet, but I hope seeing someone not afraid to stand up for themselves, giving the words and labelling the behaviors will help them to understand what is happening later. I also hope it will help him understand what is not okay. He doesn't seem to get it and I can only think his home was so much worse. I really hold a lot of resentment that this has become my family's functional pattern. My home was never this chaotic despite all the issues, and I think it's someone else's legacy that is becoming my children's legacy.
> 
> I see a lot about not clinging to this marriage. I do think that is what I am doing. Some of the reasons are good and some are not. Insecurity, fear of the future, history, nostalgia. I am also old fashioned, believing that intact families are ideal, don't want to be away from my children (even with equal custody). I retain hope that we will find each other again. We dated four years. We were so sweet at times. I am just entering middle age. I want to start a new and hopefully long career that will be fulfilling until retirement. I don't really want to find someone new to have more problems with. But if I did, I think I may have a better handle on the personality type that would suit me better now.





Peering_Within said:


> This is how I feel. Stuck in the idea that intact is best. I have hope for a healthy family and haven't been able to unsee that. For now I will stay. I ask myself if he became physical would I stay? I hope not but I have put up with more than I ever thought was possible. I don't know what my children will tell me when they are older. I hope they are kind in their evaluation of us--but they do deserve better. I feel like leaving would show them how you should value yourself over a relationship, but I haven't been able to even come close to doing it. I can imagine feeling this way in decades and wishing I hadn't waited. Now could be a time to seek another relationship that could be healthier for my older age. Something more compatible.





Peering_Within said:


> Well if you put it like that....
> 
> It is more nuanced--as life is. I wasn't going to reply as the framing is so negative and I don't want to encourage it. I do see your points but there is more involved than you know, so I'll forgive the heavy-handed arm-chair diagnosis you are so eager to give. That said, I'm not sure what you have been through. Just saying, more sensitivity would be appreciated as I didn't come here to be ranted at.





Peering_Within said:


> I am codependent. I sought help for years and know it is a perpetual problem to manage. That said, he does lots for us all--except work. He homeschools with almost no help from me--and does a pretty good job. He shops, he cleans, he cooks, he promotes family together time, he asks for time with me sometimes--he is not a bum. He was ambitious once. He graduated with honors from college, is very smart, and provided for our family for 12 years. Consistently.
> 
> This relationship can be unhealthy, I can be codependent, so can he, he can abuse marijuana, and he can also be all those things. Now, do I like the pot? Absolutely not. I think he has gone downhill since starting, but he still does all the things I mentioned. Consistently. Am I enabling him? Probably. He did cash in his retirement for this move, as he thought it was unsafe where is was and was expecting economic turmoil (six years ago). We have been living off that and my income for a few years.
> 
> We both seem to deal with our anger poorly. Him more so than me. I imagine his examples were pretty bad growing up. His family is very troubled and none function well. Something I wish I had understood better before we married: his family history and what that meant for our family history. I don't want to give up on this. I'm stupid and stubborn about it. The consistent failure is devastating for him. I continue to live in La La Land.
> 
> I am thinking of separating myself for awhile during sleeping times and throughout the day. To allow for the emotion to cool and us to heal and talk slowly. From a different perspective I should be able see a bit better what to do.





Peering_Within said:


> I do feel this sadly true. I loved him so much when we dated. Quirky, funny, kind, silly, smart, handsome, industrious. He is still a lot of those things but sadder. He has lost his spark of life. He is depressed and cynical. I miss what we had and what he was. I keep thinking he will be that person again, but he doesn't share himself with me. I was aggressively controlling when we married. I made a lot of mistakes. I still make them sometimes. We also don't some really important values. Such as health goals/attitudes, personality tendencies, etc. It makes it interesting at best and impossible at worst.





Peering_Within said:


> This is the question I ask myself. He says he does love, but he flips back and forth to wanting a divorce. Not a separation-a divorce. It seems very impulsive to me. If he really wants to be apart forever, why not try a separation first? It seems prudent to me. I think I am going to try a physical separation of living apart on the same property and sharing time with the family during meals, etc. I have been doing so a bit and my life is much more peaceful.





Peering_Within said:


> In the pragmatic sense, I do just have a childminder. In my hopes, a fulfilling and peaceful relationship that isn't ever achievable for us. I keep wanting that and being hurt by the disappointment of it blowing up in my face. There is no other guy, there are no plans to leave, there is a dream of us making it better and finding a flow we can come back to over the years until we aren't anymore. But there is no peace here. The communication always fails. We are emotional and hurt. We are both letdown from what we hoped to get from our relationship. I just want the closeness we once seemed to have. He says he was trying to please me back then and won't go back to that space. That's fair. We are older and hopefully wiser. So where is the middle ground? I think we are too wounded to find it. I am defensive and impulsive. I lack knowledge of myself. He remembers every wound and can cite the scars. He is anxious and cold.
> 
> When a dialogue starts, it is hopeful, but degrades. Even is it doesn't degrade, which is more common lately, there is not much ground achieved due to the language barrier (very difficult to get on same page). I think it we can keep calm and continue work, we can get there. He gets highly emotional and dramatic when communication fails. I think he has run out of steam to try.


Since you keep starting new discussions talking about the same thing. It makes it easier for it all to be together.


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## Peering_Within

Personal said:


> Since you keep starting new discussions talking about the same thing. It makes it easier for it all to be together.





Personal said:


> Since you keep starting new discussions talking about the same thing. It makes it easier for it all to be together.


Sure. I'm not running or trying to be confusing. I'm spinning..everything is spinning. Sure. Put it together. I surely can't figure it out.


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## Peering_Within

Personal said:


> Since you keep starting new discussions talking about the same thing. It makes it easier for it all to be together.


You're the second to remark on multiple posts. Is there a rule? A guideline?


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## Diana7

I couldn't live with a druggie.What a terrible example he is setting the children.


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## Peering_Within

Diana7 said:


> I couldn't live with a druggie.What a terrible example he is setting the children.


Never smoked before marriage, started a daily habit in year two of marriage maybe. Doesn't smoke in front of them or around them, but they can smell it and see it if they look. Says it helps with anxiety. I'm sure it does. And reality too. I think he is a very weak person indeed for relying on it and running to it. He is so much less than he was.


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## Laurentium

Peering_Within said:


> You're the second to remark on multiple posts. Is there a rule? A guideline?


It's generally a good idea not to start multiple threads on the same topic. You'll get people replying who haven't seen the whole picture. Make it easy for us. If in doubt, ask an admin. Don't keep pressing the "new thread" button.


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## ShatteredKat

You write:

*I wish I was brave enough to end this marriage.*


It is up to you to make a change. "Men" (not one really other than gender) like your Doofus spouse won't change till the pain is much greater than what constitutes his current life.

Also, drug use (including alcohol) is not an essential part of life. 

Why do you put up with his abuse. "for the children" - that is a crippled persons excuse. Staying in an abusive 
situation is teaching by example what to accept. Not good. . .


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## UpsideDownWorld11

If he is set on divorce then I think you need to stop fighting it. You obviously don't get along and he wants out, not sure what you are trying to save. But why hasn't he filed yet, it's not like he needs your permission? 

I think you first need to accept its over. A toxic relationship is bad for your kids and both of your mental health. I'm generally against divorce, but maybe you both would coparent better together...


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## theloveofmylife

Peering_Within said:


> You're the second to remark on multiple posts. Is there a rule? A guideline?


Just add new posts to your original discussion instead of creating new discussions. It's easier for people to keep up.


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## *Deidre*

I think it’s good that you’re getting this out on here, OP. I replied to your other thread yesterday but maybe discussing with objective strangers will help you see that you’re not wrong to feel like you do. You’ve been in a dysfunctional relationship for so long, you’re finally aware of all you’ve accepted. That can be overwhelming!

Keep believing that what you’re in isn’t healthy and work to move forward, not backwards. It’s easy to stay in the familiar no matter how bad it is, but moving into the unknown can be scary. But I promise you, a better healthier life is out there for you if you want it.


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## ThatDarnGuy!

Peering_Within said:


> Never smoked before marriage, started a daily habit in year two of marriage maybe. Doesn't smoke in front of them or around them, but they can smell it and see it if they look. Says it helps with anxiety. I'm sure it does. And reality too. I think he is a very weak person indeed for relying on it and running to it. He is so much less than he was.


If they can smell it and see it, then he is using around them. And it's alarming that you think his pot smoking is helping him. The behaviors you are seeing are most likely from him coming down from his high and becoming agitated. He will need more and more to continue that high. I have stated this before. But everyone I have known from high school, coworkers, family, etc who are regular users suffer from either/both physical and mental issues that include agitation, depression, anxiety, slower thinking, and little motivation to do anything but smoke.

Unless you set an ultimatum that he seek help for his drug usage along with proper help for anxiety/depression. Then you might as well quit seeking advice and learn to live with what he is now.

I don't think you are a bad person. But I feel like you are in denial about the situation and are terrified that there is no one else out there for you. I strongly urge you to seek help with a counselor so you can get a better grip on the reality of your situation.


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## LisaDiane

You didn't write the beginning of the story...why did he go outside while you "spent late-night time with our kiddos"...? And what did he mean by you were "aggressive in taking over the space"?

THIS is why you need to fully separate, not separate on the property. You still have no space from eachother. You continue to harm and tear eachother down. By remaining together you are only building the toxic feelings between you, you aren't repairing or healing anything.

Where is the love? Where is the care or respect? Neither of you have any for the other. And you are not a "victim" of him, your stubbornness is keeping you both in a place that is damaging your whole family...for what?? Because you still believe there is hope?

There is NO hope of change when no one is willing TO change. You will never have peace or happiness if you insist on staying in a contentious, miserable relationship.


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## Peering_Within

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> If they can smell it and see it, then he is using around them. And it's alarming that you think his pot smoking is helping him. The behaviors you are seeing are most likely from him coming down from his high and becoming agitated. He will need more and more to continue that high. I have stated this before. But everyone I have known from high school, coworkers, family, etc who are regular users suffer from either/both physical and mental issues that include agitation, depression, anxiety, slower thinking, and little motivation to do anything but smoke.
> 
> Unless you set an ultimatum that he seek help for his drug usage along with proper help for anxiety/depression. Then you might as well quit seeking advice and learn to live with what he is now.
> 
> I don't think you are a bad person. But I feel like you are in denial about the situation and are terrified that there is no one else out there for you. I strongly urge you to seek help with a counselor so you can get a better grip on the reality of your situation.


I am afraid of being alone and starting over. I am just 40 and not unhealthy, nor unattractive. I am sure I might meet someone eventually and know it would be best to not rush into anything. However, I do not want to develop the same issues in a new relationship. I think that is probably pretty common. I can't help but ask myself, did I make this man like this? In some way. Abusive, cruel at times? I'm sure I had some part in what's happened. 

I don't think that I make him smoke pot or cigarettes. That is his choice. I don't actually think it is helping him. That was sarcasm, because he so strong believes he is better with it. I haven't been able to find any research studies on this, but I do think he is suffering psychological from the use. His thinking has become more deviant over the years since the use started. He has also developed an anger issue that wasn't present for four years during our dating/courting. He has a tremor in his hand and cites nerve issues (phantom pains), but he is also aging. I think his anger problem is deeply related to his use. He rages (screams), viscously verbally attacks me at times, has a brooding/obsessive mentality and fixates on simple interactions that he is displeased with for hours. So much that he will be worked up at all hours and not allow me to sleep, due to his desire to 'discuss' something. I drove away just last week in a blurry eyed-state to the gas station down the road at 1 am to avoid a verbal accosting. It is ridiculous the way he acts. He rarely apologizes for these things. 

I went to the ENT yesterday for ear issues that have come up (muffled hearing) and he wasn't able to diagnose, but point to likely stress-induced TMJ/TMD issues. Clenching my jaw... This relationship is making me sick.


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## Peering_Within

Thank you posters for the kindness and support. I know the truth of what is being said. The place we are in is not good and it is hurting everyone. The children are the innocent victims of our issues. I am stubborn and stupidly moving forward here. A lot of it has to do with fear. I have always been insecure. My husband tells me I am beautiful, I have come to realize I am attractive and have a lot to offer, but the feelings of abandonment were so visceral in my youth. It was paramount to death as a young woman and I couldn't explain why I clung to my other serious relationship in my 20's when things feel apart for legitimate reasons. (Proof-reading this explains it: because I cling he can act any way he pleases--I'm not going to leave or let him leave. So I'm a doormat. An angry one too.)

I know many other people would have quit this marriage a long time ago. I think the reality of divorce and co-parenting likely has a misery to it. I have only once been away from my children for a significant amount of time (about a week last year). It was manageable but I dread the thought that they would regularly be away and I have worries about my husband's influence. He is fairly competent at caring for them, with the occasional excellent at caring for them. He also has anger issues that are untreated and largely unrecognized. I have considered separation merely to create a safe-space for them from him. Somewhere away from the critical, demanding man he can be with them. 

I don't know. I have really lost myself here. I'm pretty mild-mannered in the everyday, but that man has a way to make my blood boil. I definitely have a temper but it is pretty dormant normally. You might say my shadow is not integrated (Carl Jung).


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## Peering_Within

oldshirt said:


> Somewhere along the line you are digging this and getting off on it.
> 
> I will paraphrase but one of the things Richard Cooper says in his Red Pill material is - “ you can do anything to a woman that is attracted to you. You can treat her like a wh0re in bed, you can cheat on her, you can abuse her, you can kick her cat etc and she will cling to you.... but the one thing you can never do is bore her.”
> 
> Some people are addicted to the drama.
> 
> All this high-energy scenario may be toxic and disturbing and dysfunctional,, but it is stimulation and a rush of high emotion nonetheless.
> 
> A part of you is thriving and drawing energy from all this chaos. You are feeding off of it.
> 
> That demon inside of you that thrives on energy and raw emotion grows stronger each time you have one of these conflicts.
> 
> It follows a cycle, you have the big blow up with fireworks and drama. You have something of an emotional orgasm and that hits the reset button and you have something of an afterglow and emotional refractory period of relative calm for awhile ........
> 
> .....and then the tension starts to build again.
> 
> And the beast that hungers for emotional energy grows hungry again.
> 
> Rinse and repeat.
> 
> The problem is this is toxic and harmful and unsustainable.
> 
> You’ll likely need professional therapy to learn why you dig this and why you have a beast inside you that feeds and grows on drama and chaos and pain.
> 
> And you need therapy to learn to break the cycle and find healthy ways of resolving challenges so you don’t self destruct and permanently damage your children.


I will take the suggestions and stay in one post. It is probably passive aggressive to make it this post (considering the title). Thank you again, Personal (username), for collecting my posts and putting them here. I am not sure how to contact Admin to request a merge of three posts and I am having some guilt for emoting all over the place. I am being humorous, but really mean that. I am a mess. I suppose when I am feeling this way I reach out and grab at anything. I have been this close to running away from forum site this due to some of callousness I have seen toward myself and others (occasionally) on here. I get that people have seen and been through it all. I get that we can't take ourselves too seriously. I do think most people are here to help and be helped, even if that help is sometimes just comradery in sadness or anger. 

I have been thinking about this response Oldshirt. I know this has to be true. Why do I stay when it is so bad? I have driven away with my children and cried on a roadside. I have taken us (kids and me) spontaneously to the beach with no equipment or socks for myself (we stopped and went shopping) because I was fleeing a rage-attack. I have called the domestic violence hotline. I have cried and been depressed. I never wanted to be here but here I am. 

I don't know if it's the drama. I don't think so. I think it is the connection. We are so lacking in healthy connection, I long for any connection. That was what I wanted so much as a young woman. I was so lacking in personal worth and self-esteem that I used promiscuity as a way to find that connection. But of course, this doesn't work, because sex isn't a lasting connection. I think when we found each other we both wanted to be connected so badly. We clung to each other. I loved that. He wanted me and I wanted him. We have wanted each other less and less over the years.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> I am in the process of trying to find my bearings in a toxic marriage. I have not given up hope for a better relationship and I want to keep my family intact (two children). My blood is boiling right now. I am attempting to separate myself from him physically at night--sleeping in a different building at our home. It isn't very comfortable, but I prefer it to being around the chaotic toxicity that we create. I spent late-night time with our kiddos after a pretty peaceful day (and sleeping in the other building for the last two nights). I went out there to resume sleeping out there and he was there smoking pot and cigarettes--inside the building with the window cracked. It is a building that we share as a family and there have been many discussions and agreements to smoke outside and "out the window" (dumb). He just doesn't care when no one is around and doesn't respect the rules we have decided upon. (!) I complained and asked him to be respectful. I also told him I needed the space. He refused and asked me to leave. He said he intended to use it to sleep. I told him this was always my plan and I had been there two nights already. He was watching YouTube loudly and smoking pot and that is his MO (until all hours). He claimed I was aggressive in "taking over the space". He then got up and lit a cigarette, half out of the door. As we discussed who would stay and I refused to leave but said he could stay if he turned the volume down and smoked outside, he closed the door and came in to smoke. I opened the door and he closed it again claiming he did not want to be cold. He continued to smoke and even seemed to blow smoke in my direction. He does this when angry. My heart is pounding, I am so mad. I opened a few more windows and he closed them. I got up and conceded the space. I told him "you win" and left. He was surprised. I usually am prepared to battle it out so I should be proud, but I am so mad. He wants his space to use his drugs and doesn't want a challenge. I wish I was brave enough to end this marriage. This does not resemble the man I married. I think I might cry. Wait, I may not have any tears left. This sucks.


He is acting like a belligerant child just trying to block you from anything you do. Why ARE you still with him? Do you need to be for some reason? Do you think he's mature enough to respond to marriage counseling, rehab, etc? If not, this is what you're stuck with and it will get worse instead of better.


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## Peering_Within

Fudge. I am a mess. I am sitting here, him out in our other building. I am angry because he successfully drove me away last night. I have things to do--home and family things-but I have no drive. I want to punish him with looks and words for being such a cad last night. I also want to be a stone and show no love, no sadness, no anger. He has no caring for me or what I need. He has no respect for rules we decide together. This is our anniversary month and it is always painful. A painful reminder.

We have a concert and night away together to this Sat/Sun. An attempt at a normal life on my part and not wallowing. These types of things are always my doing (soccer for kids, attending church again, trips for summer, weekends away). I feel so unappreciated. I have decided to go even if things here fall apart. It would be depressing to go alone but I decided sometime ago to not let the drama of him/us keep me from healthy and happy experiences. I would love to partake in relationship benefits (closeness/sex/romance) but if seems forced or dishonest. He doesn't want to go but says he will. He says he is anxious about it. No doubt. 

I keep thinking he has negative expectations about the interactions, so they go bad. He comes up with wild conclusions. I never loved him, I stay to keep him unhappy and torture him, I am a narcissist, I married him for the money (teacher salary)...so many more. It's pretty simple. I dug him, it was fun and hot, he clicked the right buttons in me (probably a dysfunctional one in there too--as we both have checkered family pasts). We married and lived unhappily ever after.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> He comes up with wild conclusions. I never loved him, I stay to keep him unhappy and torture him, I am a narcissist, I married him for the money (teacher salary)...so many more. It's pretty simple.


Yes, because he's such a catch 😂


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> He is acting like a belligerant child just trying to block you from anything you do. Why ARE you still with him? Do you need to be for some reason? Do you think he's mature enough to respond to marriage counseling, rehab, etc? If not, this is what you're stuck with and it will get worse instead of better.


Belligerent child is right. He just got back and I will probably stick to "you don't actually exist" for awhile. If I address him about last night there be some BS about what I did wrong. He will interrupt, over-talk, misconstrue and come out 'on top' in his mind.

I am employed but on admin leave due to Covid-type business. I finally landed a job I love in my field, that pays excellently, and now I can not technically work due to stuff (not getting into it). I need to find a job pronto and am considering going back to my previous position which paid okay and was well within my abilities, but I am bored with and has no advancement opportunities. Despite that, I am the only income in the home. So, I could leave at that point but I don't know what he would do. The place we live is constantly under construction and not really suitable, but it is home. (It is safe--just not good.) We own it together and my children live here, so I'm thinking he can leave. He hasn't worked in six years and doesn't hold a teaching credential in our state, as well as his single subject not being supported in the local school districts so jobs rarely come up. He is smart so I think he could do so many things, but he is difficult and considers himself "principled" I think--so who knows what he might do. He is scrappy. He will make it. I am less scrappy. 

He denies counselling. Doesn't want to--doesn't think it would be affective. We have tried a few times and it was minimally affective. Never stuck to it. I would have but have lost faith that it will be helpful.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> Belligerent child is right. He just got back and I will probably stick to "you don't actually exist" for awhile. If I address him about last night there be some BS about what I did wrong. He will interrupt, over-talk, misconstrue and come out 'on top' in his mind.
> 
> I am employed but on admin leave due to Covid-type business. I finally landed a job I love in my field, that pays excellently, and now I can not technically work due to stuff (not getting into it). I need to find a job pronto and am considering going back to my previous position which paid okay and was well within my abilities, but I am bored with and has no advancement opportunities. Despite that, I am the only income in the home. So, I could leave at that point but I don't know what he would do. The place we live is constantly under construction and not really suitable, but it is home. (It is safe--just not good.) We own it together and my children live here, so I'm thinking he can leave. He hasn't worked in six years and doesn't hold a teaching credential in our state, as well as his single subject not being supported in the local school districts so jobs rarely come up. He is smart so I think he could do so many things, but he is difficult and considers himself "principled" I think--so who knows what he might do. He is scrappy. He will make it. I am less scrappy.
> 
> He denies counselling. Doesn't want to--doesn't think it would be affective. We have tried a few times and it was minimally affective. Never stuck to it. I would have but have lost faith that it will be helpful.


Well, you're just supporting this guy and making the choice to do so. Your whole family would be better off financially without him slacking around spending money on dope and whatever else. Everyone owns some joint assets. You divide those up and the attorney costs money you'd need up front but then get back after division of assets. You can't kick him out if he is on the property titles. I don't advise you leave until you have seen an attorney if you're going to do it. You two seem to be sort of thriving on this chaos. It's horrible for the kids.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you're just supporting this guy and making the choice to do so. Your whole family would be better off financially without him slacking around spending money on dope and whatever else. Everyone owns some joint assets. You divide those up and the attorney costs money you'd need up front but then get back after division of assets. You can't kick him out if he is on the property titles. I don't advise you leave until you have seen an attorney if you're going to do it. You two seem to be sort of thriving on this chaos. It's horrible for the kids.


It doesn't feel like thriving. I have a pain my jaw from clenching it, I have no social life (my doing--but it all seems so unhealthy). My family lives 13 hours away in our hometown. I thought he might have moved me out here to separate me and abuse me, like abuses follow some plan , but now he wants it to be over. I think we are grasping for anything. Quitting his career/job was a mistake. It was replaced with nothing structured and helpful. I was expected to go back to work after being a SAHM for 9 years or so. I barely used my degree before the babies and I am not aggressive/proactive in the workforce, so me being the only earner isn't great. 

I think I know not to move out though I have been tempted to go back home for an extended stay. I would take the children so I am not sure how this would be seen legally. I have been thinking of dividing assets (what can be done prior to a divorce/separation). I did put the massive electricity bill to be deducted from his account last month. My account is dwindling so much. He/we have savings from a cashed out retirement of his, so I am not fully supporting him, but it is hard to say what money is what money at this point. He claims I never did much here and ignores that I am the only one who has worked since our move (six years). He says I will never make as much as he did, although my current job already does that. He is rude and disrespectful. We both are.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> It doesn't feel like thriving. I have a pain my jaw from clenching it, I have no social life (my doing--but it all seems so unhealthy). My family lives 13 hours away in our hometown. I thought he might have moved me out here to separate me and abuse me, like abuses follow some plan , but now he wants it to be over. I think we are grasping for anything. Quitting his career/job was a mistake. It was replaced with nothing structured and helpful. I was expected to go back to work after being a SAHM for 9 years or so. I barely used my degree before the babies and I am not aggressive/proactive in the workforce, so me being the only earner isn't great.
> 
> I think I know not to move out though I have been tempted to go back home for an extended stay. I would take the children so I am not sure how this would be seen legally. I have been thinking of dividing assets (what can be done prior to a divorce/separation). I did put the massive electricity bill to be deducted from his account last month. My account is dwindling so much. He/we have savings from a cashed out retirement of his, so I am not fully supporting him, but it is hard to say what money is what money at this point. He claims I never did much here and ignores that I am the only one who has worked since our move (six years). He says I will never make as much as he did, although my current job already does that. He is rude and disrespectful. We both are.


No, you cannot take the children and leave legally. They are his children too. I don't know why you're reluctant to take legal steps because that is the only way out of this. There is no just walk away clause once you have children. You need to talk to a family law attorney.

Of course if you or someone else contacts child protective services, they can instruct you to get the kids out of that house but you must be aware that they are also going to blame you for keeping them in that situation too. There is no guarantee how that would go. And you cannot just move away even in divorce when you're sharing children. Each state has a different number of miles you can move away. Unless your spouse decides to sign something signing the children over to you entirely.

If you don't live in the United States then Google what your laws about that are there. And if you do then Google your state and what your laws about that are there but eventually you're going to have to see an attorney to get out of it.


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## Peering_Within

*Deidre* said:


> I think it’s good that you’re getting this out on here, OP. I replied to your other thread yesterday but maybe discussing with objective strangers will help you see that you’re not wrong to feel like you do. You’ve been in a dysfunctional relationship for so long, you’re finally aware of all you’ve accepted. That can be overwhelming!
> 
> Keep believing that what you’re in isn’t healthy and work to move forward, not backwards. It’s easy to stay in the familiar no matter how bad it is, but moving into the unknown can be scary. But I promise you, a better healthier life is out there for you if you want it.


Thank you


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## Peering_Within

LisaDiane said:


> You didn't write the beginning of the story...why did he go outside while you "spent late-night time with our kiddos"...? And what did he mean by you were "aggressive in taking over the space"?
> 
> THIS is why you need to fully separate, not separate on the property. You still have no space from eachother. You continue to harm and tear eachother down. By remaining together you are only building the toxic feelings between you, you aren't repairing or healing anything.
> 
> Where is the love? Where is the care or respect? Neither of you have any for the other. And you are not a "victim" of him, your stubbornness is keeping you both in a place that is damaging your whole family...for what?? Because you still believe there is hope?
> 
> There is NO hope of change when no one is willing TO change. You will never have peace or happiness if you insist on staying in a contentious, miserable relationship.


He went outside because we was taking care of the kids most of the day. I was running errands in town (we live rurally) and took our son to soccer practice. He was likely wanting alone time, cigarette usage, marijuana usage and YouTube. I think it's good to relax but don't condone the substances, especially how he uses them. (Theoretically, I think marijuana might be used therapeutically but I don't think he has a handle on this. I think other therapies are best-talk, group, art, anything else!). He might have been running from me too. Not wanting to be around me. He gets anxious around me.

'Taking over the space' means this is where he whittles away his life in bursts of smoking cigarettes and pot and watching YouTube. At his worst, until 2-3 am and waking late in the day for family duties. Living a separate life and indulging in substances. I think if I did complain about the smoking, was game to watch what he does, and was generally amenable, he would be happy as a clam. I don't think we should keep such crazy hours, especially with children. I don't think smoking anything regularly is a good health decision and I would never do it. The smoke bothers me and smells gross on me and things if it is done inside. 

I am aware that is what he likes to do, but until we have a place for me to be away that is acceptable or have a better relationship, I think it is reasonable he doesn't expect to be in here at all hours, and sticks to prearranged agreements to smoke outside. I didn't have a talk with him about this and that is what a should do. A prewritten and calm talk about rules for the space if I plan to stay out here. He was belligerent last night, he hasn't apologized and it will happen again. We need to to communicate about it. 

I did step out of my door yesterday (separate building) and hear the birds and feel the sunlight, and I thought "I can do this." I can go to work from here, see the kids here, have joint family nights here, and be happy. I can also be with the family in the main home and use the facilities and be respectful and calm and leave to my space. I know this is not what a marriage is about, like at all. I also know this is not ideal for separation but financially we can not separate for now, unless we haul 13 hours back to Cali (dying state) and live with family. I love and miss my family but I don't want to return there. (It can be done if needed--and I have been close to dropping it all and driving off to Grandma's with the children many times.)

The love and respect have evaporated.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, you cannot take the children and leave legally. They are his children too. I don't know why you're reluctant to take legal steps because that is the only way out of this. There is no just walk away clause once you have children. You need to talk to a family law attorney.
> 
> Of course if you or someone else contacts child protective services, they can instruct you to get the kids out of that house but you must be aware that they are also going to blame you for keeping them in that situation too. There is no guarantee how that would go. And you cannot just move away even in divorce when you're sharing children. Each state has a different number of miles you can move away. Unless your spouse decides to sign something signing the children over to you entirely.
> 
> If you don't live in the United States then Google what your laws about that are there. And if you do then Google your state and what your laws about that are there but eventually you're going to have to see an attorney to get out of it.


I think I can take the children if there is no custody order in place and if no one has filed for separation/divorce. Once a custody order is in place, I will abide by that. I have no plan to stop him from seeing or having the children if he remains safe as a parental figure, and despite the drug use and anger he is apparently that. 

As for CPS, marijuana is legal and our DM issues aren't likely to be serious enough for an intervention. I doubt an investigation would yield anything damning, though my children do deserve better from us both. No there is no guarantee how it would go, but I think unless one of us were to file a police report over one of the incidents over the years, we aren't that interesting to them as family. Not that I would even want CPS in our lives ever.


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## DownByTheRiver

Don't assume that it's okay for you to run off with the kids. You need to ask an attorney in your state about that.

I don't think it's legal to be smoking marijuana around your kids even if it's legal in your state. I don't have a problem with marijuana but you need to know because this involves kids.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> Don't assume that it's okay for you to run off with the kids. You need to ask an attorney in your state about that.
> 
> I don't think it's legal to be smoking marijuana around your kids even if it's legal in your state. I don't have a problem with marijuana but you need to know because this involves kids.


I appreciate it. I think I am correct without directly consulting attorney but reading state specific items online. WA state: can travel without partner with children--maybe have to tell them contact info (not a problem) and maybe can't go without their consent (I'm unsure about that). He goes back and forth about it. Tells me to go with them at times. When he is upset and looking to upset me, says I can't go with them. I suppose if he allowed one day and got upset on another, he might tell the authorities I went against his will with our children. He doesn't seem to want to get anyone involved in our lives though, so it is unlikely. 

He also does not actively smoke marijuana in their presence. He smokes in a place they frequent. It can smell like the smoke at times and they can find the paraphernalia if they look (it is not locked up at this point). He is high around them but doesn't allow them to see him smoking--as far as I know.


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## Openminded

Peering_Within said:


> You're the second to remark on multiple posts. Is there a rule? A guideline?


Yes. Don’t open more than one thread on the same topic.


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## Peering_Within

Openminded said:


> Yes. Don’t open more than one thread on the same topic.


They feel like different topics to me. Lol. I'm Sad and It Sucks, Does Anyone Else Understand How it Sucks?, and I Am So Mad. But yes, all the same topics.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> I appreciate it. I think I am correct without directly consulting attorney but reading state specific items online. WA state: can travel without partner with children--maybe have to tell them contact info (not a problem) and maybe can't go without their consent (I'm unsure about that). He goes back and forth about it. Tells me to go with them at times. When he is upset and looking to upset me, says I can't go with them. I suppose if he allowed one day and got upset on another, he might tell the authorities I went against his will with our children. He doesn't seem to want to get anyone involved in our lives though, so it is unlikely.
> 
> He also does not actively smoke marijuana in their presence. He smokes in a place they frequent. It can smell like the smoke at times and they can find the paraphernalia if they look (it is not locked up at this point). He is high around them but doesn't allow them to see him smoking--as far as I know.


Just from what you described in your earlier post how he will intentionally make something an issue just because it's something you want to do, you know that he will block you from taking the kids just because you want to do it and he will make an issue out of it and get you in trouble. He will do it just to be billigerant in an attempt to control you.

Also, what would your goal be in taking the children away for time I'm assuming would be longer than the average vacation? You'll have to come back sometime and it would be the same situation when you get there. Would you pay his bills while you were gone?


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just from what you described in your earlier post how he will intentionally make something an issue just because it's something you want to do, you know that he will block you from taking the kids just because you want to do it and he will make an issue out of it and get you in trouble. He will do it just to be billigerant in an attempt to control you.
> 
> Also, what would your goal be in taking the children away for time I'm assuming would be longer than the average vacation? You'll have to come back sometime and it would be the same situation when you get there. Would you pay his bills while you were gone?


I will pay the bills (online). The goal is respite and support and reconfiguring. That is why I haven't gone, it is running and then having to come back to the same. I know that but it is tempting to go, especially when I am feeling so weak and rundown. I got a haircut yesterday and my skin, my facial expressions were so telling that I am not a happy person. I don't smile that much, though I have a natural joy usually. I think I have changed for the worse in the last years. I used to be active and outside a lot. Not so much anymore.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> I will pay the bills (online). The goal is respite and support and reconfiguring. That is why I haven't gone, it is running and then having to come back to the same. I know that but it is tempting to go, especially when I am feeling so weak and rundown. I got a haircut yesterday and my skin, my facial expressions were so telling that I am not a happy person. I don't smile that much, though I have a natural joy usually. I think I have changed for the worse in the last years. I used to be active and outside a lot. Not so much anymore.


Getting out legally is a lengthy process and the longer you put it off the longer you'll be stuck. You can't possibly be happy in that situation. I hope you find a way to work while you are away so you can suck money away for an attorney. I think it's going to be such a relief for you to be away that you're not going to be able to go back.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> Getting out legally is a lengthy process and the longer you put it off the longer you'll be stuck. You can't possibly be happy in that situation. I hope you find a way to work while you are away so you can suck money away for an attorney. I think it's going to be such a relief for you to be away that you're not going to be able to go back.


Going away is not happening..just a fantasy. I would like to but there is no running from this BS. Just a weekend away with husband that will either not happen or be crappy. Though I hope for more. 

I think the venting on here is helping me from having truly bad behaviors toward my husband. Like, instead of arguing over the use of the space last night, I left. I was unsatisfied but I didn't let it go atomic. That is growth.


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## MattMatt

Please just stick to one thread.

This is a link to your other thread Husband Perpetually Unhappy-Anyone Can Relate to Him?


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## Peering_Within

So my actions have pushed this over the top. I attempted to speak with my husband about my staying away from the main home and it did not go well. Staying away and demanding a smoke-free sleep zone has led to a conversation in which my husband has related that he, without a doubt, does not want to reconcile and sees no future for us. He has gone so far as to say that he is going to CA within a week and hopes I will follow with the children to relocate as separate/to-be divorced people there. I cried and told him he was small and disappointing. I told him that he has broken my heart, but the truth is he did that years ago. He carried on and repeated over and over that he was not going to work it out with me, that he had no plans to ever do anything to fix us. He stated that when we have sex, when he says that he loves me, when we are together in the last two years he is lying. I said that if it was real I would know it. I had to ask him to stop yelling at me while saying these things. He was in this mode where he rants and says horrible things. 

After that he has been packing and I have provided all his important papers (SS Card, Birth Cert, etc.) so he can find a job. Lord, knows he would have no idea where any of that stuff was if not for me. I will retain all the other legal docs and such until a later date. I called a family member (Aunt) due to having weekend plans with her and said they had to change. We spoke and I outlined how I did not know what I was going to do. Staying in WA state without any very little friends and very little family would be very difficult. I can go back to CA where I do not want to be, but I have family support. This is home so I am inclined to stay, even without him. 

I am thinking of staying and being extremely strong but that will likely fade. I haven't cried much after he and I spoke. I made the children a good lunch, called the IRS to sort of a late refund, cancelled our lovely Airbnb that was supposed to be an early anniversary stay, and listed our Lord Huron concert tickets on Craigslist in that city. I am feeling like going to the concert anyway. I owe it to myself to not let this -ish get me down. I have basically told myself I am not going to fold my plans for his moods, rants, control tactics. Even if this is the real deal.

Now he is high, reeks of cigarettes and moping around. I saw him pack some bags and put them in his car. He is just planning to leave our home and wants me to uproot our children before school (homeschool) and soccer are done. I told him I do not intend to leave prior to soccer being done. Even if we are moving and divorcing to take them out three weeks before it is done seems unstable and cruel. We have five chickens, two cats, and 10 acres. How do we sort that out? How do we leave such a large property and home for months or years. That is unrealistic. 

My daughter was aware of what her father was doing (he told her) so I told her that we are going to take care of ourselves and I was supportive of her. I told them he did not want to be with me anymore but we were all going to be 'okay'. What else could I do? I think we will be okay. Somehow. She said she didn't want to only video chat with him and I told her that wasn't going to happen. But then I asked him what would happen if we didn't move to CA after him. He said he would miss the children a lot. Oh,****. I thought he was so much better of father than this. I thought he would never let that happen--being away from them like that.

After washing dishes and tidying up I felt a bit relieved. He has said he would leave before but never did. Now it feels that if he goes through with this it will have finally happened. I can breath a bit and not have this hanging over me anymore. If he really feels so strongly he probably should. I have begged him to stay years ago, letting my abandonment issues get the best of me. I don't feel that way anymore. I love him and want it to work but not at all costs. 

I am exhausted. One foot in front of the other. Good soldiers keep going no matter what they see (I assume).


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> So my actions have pushed this over the top. I attempted to speak with my husband about my staying away from the main home and it did not go well. Staying away and demanding a smoke-free sleep zone has led to a conversation in which my husband has related that he, without a doubt, does not want to reconcile and sees no future for us. He has gone so far as to say that he is going to CA within a week and hopes I will follow with the children to relocate as separate/to-be divorced people there. I cried and told him he was small and disappointing. I told him that he has broken my heart, but the truth is he did that years ago. He carried on and repeated over and over that he was not going to work it out with me, that he had no plans to ever do anything to fix us. He stated that when we have sex, when he says that he loves me, when we are together in the last two years he is lying. I said that if it was real I would know it. I had to ask him to stop yelling at me while saying these things. He was in this mode where he rants and says horrible things.
> 
> After that he has been packing and I have provided all his important papers (SS Card, Birth Cert, etc.) so he can find a job. Lord, knows he would have no idea where any of that stuff was if not for me. I will retain all the other legal docs and such until a later date. I called a family member (Aunt) due to having weekend plans with her and said they had to change. We spoke and I outlined how I did know what I was going to do. I can state in WA state without any friends and very little family. I can go back to CA where I do not want to be, but I have family support. This is home but there has more loved ones.
> 
> I am thinking of staying and being extremely strong but that will likely fade. I haven't cried much after he and I spoke. I made the children a good lunch, called the IRS to sort of a late refund, cancelled our lovely Airbnb that was supposed to be an early anniversary stay, and listed our Lord Huron concert tickets on Craigslist in that city. I am feeling like going to the concert anyway. I owe it to myself to not let this -ish get me down. I have basically told myself I am not going to fold my plans for his moods, rants, control tactics. Even if this is the real deal.
> 
> Now he is high, reeks of cigarettes and moping around. I saw him pack some bags and put them in his car. He is just planning to leave our home and wants me to uproot our children before school (homeschool) and soccer are done. I told him I do not intend to leave prior to soccer being done. Even if we are moving and divorcing to take them out three weeks before it is done seems unstable and cruel. We have five chickens, two cats, and 10 acres. How do we sort that out? How do we leave such a large property and home for months or years. That is unrealistic.
> 
> My daughter was aware of what her father was doing (he told her) so I told her that we are going to take care of ourselves and I was supportive of her. I told them he did not want to be with me anymore but we were all going to be 'okay'. What else could I do? I think we will be okay. Somehow. She said she didn't want to only video chat with him and I told her that wasn't going to happen. But then I asked him what would happen if we didn't move to CA after him. He said he would miss the children a lot. Oh,****. I thought he was so much better of father than this. I thought he would never let that happen--being away from them like that.
> 
> After washing dishes and tidying up I felt a bit relieved. He has said he would leave before but never did. Now it feels that if he goes through with this it will have finally happened. I can breath a bit and not have this hanging over me anymore. If he really feels so strongly he probably should. I have begged him to stay years ago, letting my abandonment issues get the best of me. I don't feel that way anymore. I love him and want it to work but not at all costs.
> 
> I am exhausted. One foot in front of the other. Good soldiers keep going no matter what they see (I assume).


If he moves off without the children, he's just abandoning the children and losing any legal rights to them he ever had. And scarring them for life by abandoning them. 

You had abandonment issues and you picked someone who would do the same thing. He's just left you with a mess which isn't surprising considering everything you told us about him so far. He's left you all the responsibility to sort it all out. I wouldn't follow him across the street.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> If he moves off without the children, he's just abandoning the children and losing any legal rights to them he ever had. And scarring them for life by abandoning them.
> 
> You had abandonment issues and you picked someone who would do the same thing. He's just left you with a mess which isn't surprising considering everything you told us about him so far. He's left you all the responsibility to sort it all out. I wouldn't follow him across the street.


Now he is homeschooling with the children. Sorry for the play-by-play. I have told a few people about this but not all the details. We have been through similar and it is exhausting for a loved one to go through this with you. Better to have support from people who aren't so involved. Thank you for the support. 

If this turns into another "I don't know what to do" from him...Of course I want it to but I hate going through this. I might just be working myself up but I don't think I should be sitting around waiting for this cloud of his ambivalence to pass over me. 

I am so influenceable it makes me ashamed. Am I only being strong because I am posting on here? Is posting on here giving me the strength and perspective I need? I have no idea. I haven't told him about this forum, even though I am an overly honest and open person, because he will ridicule it, probably try to read my posts, and overall try to turn me against it. 

That is what he did to my journal. He commented on it all the time when I was writing, threw it on the roof 'just to see' me 'have to get it', and during a fight he secretively took it and (supposedly) destroyed it. He said he read it first and it was 'full of hate' and emanated hate. I informed him that I bought a new journal and it was not to be destroyed. He said he would not live with something so hateful in the house. I told him I have no intention on changing what I write, that it is a tool for me to use for a better life, and that if he didn't want to have negative entries we should fix our relationship. Now, I do vent in the journal but also write very similarly to this forum. I don't think this is hateful. 

Anyhow, plans to continue to reach out to support and keep posting through this. Still staying separate but no resolution on rules for that. Not planning to be mean to him but will keep a distance at this time. If he follows-through on leaving we will attempt to carry-on as before. Summer break and end of soccer should help. My Aunt planning to stay a few month to help the transition if needed. The kids would actually love that and she probably would too. Maybe back to CA but I'd rather not. 

If he abandons the children that will be quite surprising. He has nothing to hold onto and blames me for everything so once I am gone he will only have himself to blame. I feel like he is drowning in himself and doesn't understand what's happening. He is looking for a reason everything has gone wrong and doesn't know you can't make your way with no direction. He doesn't use his support system (friends), he doesn't have a job, he abuses drugs, he refuses counselling and introspective therapies (thinks he can cure himself with psychedelic mushrooms someday--never used yet), he is flying in the wind. His family was chaotic and dysfunctional and he never sought help for that. He has had an anger management issue for years that goes untreated--but blames it on unhappiness in the marriage. I don't mean to be overly critical, but this is what I see. Told him as much several times over many years.


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## DownByTheRiver

Peering_Within said:


> Now he is homeschooling with the children. Sorry for the play-by-play. I have told a few people about this but not all the details. We have been through similar and it is exhausting for a loved one to go through this with you. Better to have support from people who aren't so involved. Thank you for the support.
> 
> If this turns into another "I don't know what to do" from him...Of course I want it to but I hate going through this. I might just be working myself up but I don't think I should be sitting around waiting for this cloud of his ambivalence to pass over me.
> 
> I am so influenceable it makes me ashamed. Am I only being strong because I am posting on here? Is posting on here giving me the strength and perspective I need? I have no idea. I haven't told him about this forum, even though I am an overly honest and open person, because he will ridicule it, probably try to read my posts, and overall try to turn me against it.
> 
> That is what he did to my journal. He commented on it all the time when I was writing, threw it on the roof 'just to see' me 'have to get it', and during a fight he secretively took it and (supposedly) destroyed it. He said he read it first and it was 'full of hate' and emanated hate. I informed him that I bought a new journal and it was not to be destroyed. He said he would not live with something so hateful in the house. I told him I have no intention on changing what I write, that it is a tool for me to use for a better life, and that if he didn't want to have negative entries we should fix our relationship. Now, I do vent in the journal but also write very similarly to this forum. I don't think this is hateful.
> 
> Anyhow, plans to continue to reach out to support and keep posting through this. Still staying separate but no resolution on rules for that. Not planning to be mean to him but will keep a distance at this time. If he follows-through on leaving we will attempt to carry-on as before. Summer break and end of soccer should help. My Aunt planning to stay a few month to help the transition if needed. The kids would actually love that and she probably would too. Maybe back to CA but I'd rather not.
> 
> If he abandons the children that will be quite surprising. He has nothing to hold onto and blames me for everything so once I am gone he will only have himself to blame. I feel like he is drowning in himself and doesn't understand what's happening. He is looking for a reason everything has gone wrong and doesn't know you can't make your way with no direction. He doesn't use his support system (friends), he doesn't have a job, he abuses drugs, he refuses counselling and introspective therapies (thinks he can cure himself with psychedelic mushrooms someday--never used yet), he is flying in the wind. His family was chaotic and dysfunctional and he never sought help for that. He has had an anger management issue for years that goes untreated--but blames it on unhappiness in the marriage. I don't mean to be overly critical, but this is what I see. Told him as much several times over many years.


How is he financing himself? I hope you're not planning on paying for his leaving.


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## Peering_Within

DownByTheRiver said:


> How is he financing himself? I hope you're not planning on paying for his leaving.


He has savings he is draining. He can use that as long as it lasts.


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## Peering_Within

Okay, feeling silly posting into the wind, but also having the hardest time sleeping. Went in to say goodnight to the kids and they are talking about making the most of their time before he leaves. This isn't blowing over. Had a decent cry and feeling upset with him. Spoke to my mother and discussed how he has been feeling this way in the past. I feel sick. Next year would be 20 years together. Many unhappy memories, but I just find myself sad thinking about the happy ones. Was looking at his face today when he was ranting at me today and I thought "I don't love this person, do I?" I love something else. He seems unwell. I am afraid for him at times. I should let him leave. I want to ask him to stay as I always have. I think he expects me too and maybe wants me to. To show him I still care. I do care. 

It is not like it was. I would plead and kiss him. It was passionate and dysfunctional maybe. It usually worked but it might not at this point. I can't bring myself to do it. He doesn't value me anymore--for the longest time. I keep thinking he doesn't know who I am anymore. He is scratching his head to diagnose me with something that will make him feel better about leaving. Some diagnosis that tells him I am unworthy of love and corrupt to my core. I am who I have always been but more sad maybe. 

Tomorrow is going to suck. How to get through it...start walking again..Took my credit card out of his wallet. I am starting to worry about the money. I don't trust him but he really hasn't been secretive about it before. Feeling vulnerable.


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## aine

So sorry that you are going through this.
Start recording his abusiveness on your smart phone. The go see a lawyer and give him what he wants. You are living in a toxic environment which is also not good for your children. Their mother needs to be healthy mentally, emotionally and physically. Why are you holding on to this good for nothing man?


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## aine

ShatteredKat said:


> You write:
> 
> *I wish I was brave enough to end this marriage.*
> 
> 
> It is up to you to make a change. "Men" (not one really other than gender) like your Doofus spouse won't change till the pain is much greater than what constitutes his current life.
> 
> Also, drug use (including alcohol) is not an essential part of life.
> 
> Why do you put up with his abuse. "for the children" - that is a crippled persons excuse. Staying in an abusive
> situation is teaching by example what to accept. Not good. . .



👆👆👆👆👆👆👆 THIS! if you cannot end it for yourself, please end it for your kids


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## aine

You both sound toxic. Why on earth would you share your journal with him, what is the purpose? To hurt him, make him angry, what? You seem to get something out of all of this drama and trauma. You need to cut this off at the roots. let him go and get yourself some counselling so that you can become a person who your children can depend on and look up to. Your H is an abuser but you are also sinking to his level. Cut it out and tell him to go. If it was me, i would tell him, I will follow when I sort things out. The chances are he will lose contact with you. I know that sounds painful. The red flags were there when a man takes early retirment at his age, gives up working and supporting his family and smoking pot all day. He is a big loser one you would be well rid off. In fact I think he is mentally unhinged also, maybe its the pot? let him go. It will be painful at first, but you will have peace, wonderful peace and you can make your way in the world slowly but surely. The kids will have calm and serenity in their home, those poor kids are witnessing far too much at such a young age and by staying with him you are setting them up for a life time of problems.


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## Peering_Within

aine said:


> You both sound toxic. Why on earth would you share your journal with him, what is the purpose? To hurt him, make him angry, what? You seem to get something out of all of this drama and trauma. You need to cut this off at the roots. let him go and get yourself some counselling so that you can become a person who your children can depend on and look up to. Your H is an abuser but you are also sinking to his level. Cut it out and tell him to go. If it was me, i would tell him, I will follow when I sort things out. The chances are he will lose contact with you. I know that sounds painful. The red flags were there when a man takes early retirment at his age, gives up working and supporting his family and smoking pot all day. He is a big loser one you would be well rid off. In fact I think he is mentally unhinged also, maybe its the pot? let him go. It will be painful at first, but you will have peace, wonderful peace and you can make your way in the world slowly but surely. The kids will have calm and serenity in their home, those poor kids are witnessing far too much at such a young age and by staying with him you are setting them up for a life time of problems.


We are toxic together, yes. We both don't want a toxic life/marriage, and we want to save the marriage. I think he (emotional issues, drug use, combination of both, thinking patterns) is the major cause of our issues. (I am not innocent or perfect, as you stated.) BTW, I did not share the journal. It was taken. I refuse to hide it or hide that I use it. I think that is more unhealthy, so... 

I think what I get out of the drama (i.e. why I stay after/during drama--why I help make drama) is connection. (It's the only connection he seems willing to give, as we don't share a lot of interests or time together. I don't want someone saying how--wow, that is super unhealthy. Yes, it is. I am aware. I simply am too damaged/afraid/hopeful/stupid(?) to do anything about it at the time--apparently.) I can't think of anything else that I might be getting. Passion? Excitement, etc? I don't think so. I would be so happy to never be in a place like I have been with him--during and after a fight. Emotionally wrecked, day wrecked, stressed family. 

I have stopped sinking to his level. That was a mistake to do in the first place. I read that it is called the Fool's Golden Rule--do unto others as they have done unto you (but the bad stuff  ). I have started isolating during and after his attacks, but the issue is that I am blamed for the attacks and he/we seek no help. I could make an ultimatum, but he responses badly to things like that (of course). I want to say anger management or personal counselling, but for a man that is half out the door I don't know how attractive that would be. 

I am continually fed up about this stuff and I think that is why it is pushed to the brink. It is funny that I am fed up and separating emotionally (and physically in the home) and he is the one that wants a divorce. We actually ended up going away for the weekend and, as these things go, it was wonderful. I remembered that it doesn't fix things but I was hopeful. Actually, I still am. However, yesterday-a fight. He was a #&$* again. Angry with the kids and me for not meeting his standards during doing tasks. We worked it out and I took care of the kids, but we talked afterwards and he was quite reasonable, yet I am pissed. I am tired of ending up in this spot. I told him I think he is unstable, I wonder if it is the decade+ chronic marijuana use, I urged him to get help (again). I told him I love him and he sometimes resembles the man I married, but not right now. 

It is frustrating that we could have such a good time and so soon after if it falls apart. I know that is the way it goes, to expect it, but it hurts. I was a nice get away this weekend, but that isn't real life. I want even a part of that back on a daily level. Don't tell me I am crazy of stupid for that. He isn't talking about leaving anymore, so that's whatever (good). He is not a bum or big loser. Unpopular opinion, he is worth saving. This man and this marriage is worth saving. I am just not the one that can save it/him. He has to make the changes he needs to make. I will continue to seek a healthier place. Reaching up to family, taking care of myself, pursuing a happy life with the kids. If he wants to aim at the cliff, he is alone on that. We'll see what happens. It's been a long time coming--years working our way here to the edge. Walking it back but still being right up against. 

I am confident I have the strength to stay here if he leaves. I have support from my family, here and in my home state. I have a small amount of community support from connections we have made. I am smart and know how to care for myself, I just need to exercise that knowledge.


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## aine

Peering_Within said:


> We are toxic together, yes. We both don't want a toxic life/marriage, and we want to save the marriage. I think he (emotional issues, drug use, combination of both, thinking patterns) is the major cause of our issues. (I am not innocent or perfect, as you stated.) BTW, I did not share the journal. It was taken. I refuse to hide it or hide that I use it. I think that is more unhealthy, so...
> 
> I am continually fed up about this stuff and I think that is why it is pushed to the brink. It is funny that I am fed up and separating emotionally (and physically in the home) a*nd he is the one that wants a divorce.* We actually ended up going away for the weekend and, as these things go, it was wonderful. I remembered that it doesn't fix things but I was hopeful. Actually, I still am. However, yesterday-a fight. He was a #&$* again. *Angry with the kids and me for not meeting his standards during doing tasks. We worked it out and I took care of the kids, but we talked afterwards and he was quite reasonable, yet I am pissed*. I am tired of ending up in this spot. I told him I think he is unstable, I wonder if it is the decade+ chronic marijuana use, I urged him to get help (again). I told him I love him and he sometimes resembles the man I married, but not right now.


I do not know whether you realise it or not, but you are doing untold damage to your children continuing in this environment.
If your H wants a divorce, go get the papers and give them to him and ask him to go. What value does he bring to your life, someone else has listed here all the terrible things he does to you and your kids and you are hanging on for what? Break those chains, if you wont do it for yourself, please do it for your poor little kids who have no say in any of this.
He is an abuser, plain and simple. LET HIM GO. You will soar, you all will flourish afterwards.


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