# How to change your feelings?



## Rebecca327

My husband and I have been married almost 21 years. He’s 48 and I’m 52. We’ve had a lot of trouble over the last 6 or so years. We started counseling 2 years ago and things have been a lot better, except in the bedroom. My husband has intamacy issues which of course all stem from his childhood. This has been diagnosed by his counselor who he’s been seeing about this for a year. He rarely wants to have sex and when he does it’s wham bam as fast as he can make me and himself orgasm, less than 5 minutes. He does not like touching.
We are pretty good in other areas which brings on this difficulty. When we talk, have fun, etc I feel overwhelmed with love and attraction to him. It kills me to be rejected and/ or wham bam. It hurts so bad that he doesn’t feel the same as me.
The only thing I can think of to resolve this is for me to somehow ’friend-zone’ him so I’m not interested in sex with him either and I’m not hurt by all this. I just feel we’d be great if I could get rid of the urge to make love with him even tho I know that sounds pretty weird and dumb


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## Trident

yeah I don't know what the answer is but that's definitely not it.


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## Laurentium

I agree with Trident, trying to "friend" him is a recipe for trouble.

I'm a bit confused about this counselling. Is it marriage counselling (ie both of you) or is it individual for him? Or both? Saying he has "intimacy issues from childhood" is all very well, but question 1 is, does he _want _to change how things are? Is he _motivated _to change? Or is he just going to counselling to put a label on it?

Has he always been a bit like this, or did it start 6 years ago, and if so, what was happening at that time? And has he had a full medical checkup?


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## DownByTheRiver

Rebecca327 said:


> My husband and I have been married almost 21 years. He’s 48 and I’m 52. We’ve had a lot of trouble over the last 6 or so years. We started counseling 2 years ago and things have been a lot better, except in the bedroom. My husband has intamacy issues which of course all stem from his childhood. This has been diagnosed by his counselor who he’s been seeing about this for a year. He rarely wants to have sex and when he does it’s wham bam as fast as he can make me and himself orgasm, less than 5 minutes. He does not like touching.
> We are pretty good in other areas which brings on this difficulty. When we talk, have fun, etc I feel overwhelmed with love and attraction to him. It kills me to be rejected and/ or wham bam. It hurts so bad that he doesn’t feel the same as me.
> The only thing I can think of to resolve this is for me to somehow ’friend-zone’ him so I’m not interested in sex with him either and I’m not hurt by all this. I just feel we’d be great if I could get rid of the urge to make love with him even tho I know that sounds pretty weird and dumb


You may well get to the point where you can do that because you're reaching the age where it can happen. a friend of mine and her husband get along better now that neither one of them wants sex. In a way he was similar to yours in that he really didn't want to do Hands-On affection but just wanted to get himself off looking. So it was just arguments for as long as they've been together. 

Things calmed down a little when they both were about 50 or so. Your husband sounds like he just has problems with intimacy and affection and that's a pretty big deficit to have.


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## FlaviusMaximus

I'm not sure it's really possible to ignore or work your way out of sexual urges. I gather from your post, you were aware of his issues before you got married? 
If so, what made them worse over the past 6 years? Have you tried other avenues, mutual masturbation, toys etc. Things that can enhance your experience without prolonging the aspects of sex he is uncomfortable with? Does his counselor see a way for him to improve?


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## Rebecca327

FlaviusMaximus said:


> I'm not sure it's really possible to ignore or work your way out of sexual urges. I gather from your post, you were aware of his issues before you got married?
> If so, what made them worse over the past 6 years? Have you tried other avenues, mutual masturbation, toys etc. Things that can enhance your experience without prolonging the aspects of sex he is uncomfortable with? Does his counselor see a way for him to improve?


there were no issues like this for the first 12-13 years of our marriage. I actually don’t know what happened around year 14, but 2 years ago he got sober. I think the alcohol helped him be more affectionate so now he’s just totally not interested.


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## FlaviusMaximus

Rebecca327 said:


> there were no issues like this for the first 12-13 years of our marriage. I actually don’t know what happened around year 14, but 2 years ago he got sober. I think the alcohol helped him be more affectionate so now he’s just totally not interested.


He should see counselor with some expertise in alcoholism. Getting sober shouldn't have that effect. 
Incompatibility where sexual intimacy is concerned leads to other issues. Finding a way to be "friends" won't solve anything as a replacement for intimacy. If the alcoholism was a response to childhood trauma, you have a couple big issues to tackle - he has to be a willing part in his recovery.


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## Rebecca327

FlaviusMaximus said:


> He should see counselor with some expertise in alcoholism. Getting sober shouldn't have that effect.
> Incompatibility where sexual intimacy is concerned leads to other issues. Finding a way to be "friends" won't solve anything as a replacement for intimacy. If the alcoholism was a response to childhood trauma, you have a couple big issues to tackle - he has to be a willing part in his recovery.


he is. In my original post I said that he’s been in counseling for over a year


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## Affaircare

Rebecca327 said:


> there were no issues like this for the first 12-13 years of our marriage. I actually don’t know what happened around year 14, but 2 years ago he got sober. I think the alcohol helped him be more affectionate so now he’s just totally not interested.


I have two thoughts... While he was drinking he may have been "more affectionate" because he was using it as a crutch to relax and loosen some of his inhibitions, and by that I just mean that he may have some nervousness that he doesn't feel as much when he drinks (he could kind of push through it even if he did feel a little edgy). BUT the trouble with that, of course, is that the drinking is SO harmful in so many other ways!! So now that he is sober, he feels nervous or vulnerable when he's affectionate, and thus essentially avoids it. I suspect it may just take him some time to learn to be sober and learn to trust you while vulnerable. Not many people are able to open up like that. 

My other thought is regarding this quote


> We are pretty good in other areas which brings on this difficulty. When we talk, have fun, etc I feel overwhelmed with love and attraction to him. It kills me to be rejected and/ or wham bam. It hurts so bad that he doesn’t feel the same as me.
> The only thing I can think of to resolve this is for me to somehow ’friend-zone’ him so I’m not interested in sex with him either and I’m not hurt by all this. I just feel we’d be great if I could get rid of the urge to make love with him even tho I know that sounds pretty weird and dumb.


I can relate to what you're saying in that there are certain times with my Beloved Buddhist when we are talking and laughing or when we have been doing something wonderful all day, and I am just overwhelmed with love and attraction for him, and for me that translates into thinking about hugging, kissing, and making love. What's funny, though, is that we have 100% opposite body clocks as it regards making love. He is one of those "early morning riser" kind of guys, and I am semi-conscious in the morning. I am a gal who like to make love at night as the cherry on top to a perfect day and he is semi-conscious at night. If we ALWAYS only did it in the morning, I would potentially feel like you do. And yet I'm also aware that if we always only did it at night (when I'm in the mood), HE might potentially feel like you do! I don't want that!

So one thing you may want to consider is changing your own point of view a little bit. 

Just consider that maybe he has that nervous/edgy feeling being vulnerable...and yet he allows himself to feel weird like that because sobriety is important...to him and to you! So in a way that's quite a gift! 

Another point of view that could change is that making love is something that is mutual, for both of you, and so it's not "your way" against or versus "his way"...it is the two of you together against or versus "the issue" (and "the issue" is the timing of making love). Thus, if you were on his side, but the two of you together were addressing "when might we make love so it is MUTUALLY enjoyable (not just his way or your way)?"...brainstorm a little. Could you switch "every other time" (for example, #1 is a quickie, #2 is a slowie) or could you say this week is his turn and next week is your turn? What other solutions might there be? 

A final viewpoint that might be adjusted is the idea of rejection and that if it's a quickie, he is rejecting you and doesn't feel the same about you. I do not know if he has or has not come right out and told you "I do not want you" but if he hasn't said that, I would not assume that's how he feels. I suspect you may feel it, and that's understandable because you want candles and slow kissing! But that's really putting YOUR feelings onto him. So... instead I would say that HIS ideas and methods and sexual style ARE DIFFERENT THAN your ideas and methods and sexual style. Different does not equal "Bad"...it just equals "Not the Same." 

Soooo...on one hand, it is very reasonable and thoughtful of you to consider maybe the trauma he's been through or his preferences--and on the other hand it is equally reasonable for you to respectfully request what you would like. The idea is that if you ask with respect, you give the other person the right to say "no" and honor their no...but since they are in a relationship with you, that means they agreed to RELATE with you. So if the answer is "no" cool--then the rule is that they tell you what they'd agree to say "yes" to! For example, if you want candles and slow kisses, why don't you just outright ask him, "The next time we make love, could we light some candles and kiss for about 5 minutes first, and then take our time going slower when we actually make love?" He has the right to say "yes I'd be willing to do that" or "no I'm not willing ot do that" and if he does say no, then have the rule be that he follows up with "... but I am willing to do ." For all you know, maybe candles make him nervous because he's afraid he'll knock it over and so he can't concentrate and enjoy "the fun!!" but he could say "UGH the candles make me nervous and distracted, but could we dim the lights instead?" Or he might say "Well picking 5 minutes seems arbitrary and kind of long to me--are we gonna watch the clock or something? I hear you saying you'd like to kiss longer first, so how about if we" and then give you his idea. Make sense?


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## Rebecca327

Affaircare said:


> I have two thoughts... While he was drinking he may have been "more affectionate" because he was using it as a crutch to relax and loosen some of his inhibitions, and by that I just mean that he may have some nervousness that he doesn't feel as much when he drinks (he could kind of push through it even if he did feel a little edgy). BUT the trouble with that, of course, is that the drinking is SO harmful in so many other ways!! So now that he is sober, he feels nervous or vulnerable when he's affectionate, and thus essentially avoids it. I suspect it may just take him some time to learn to be sober and learn to trust you while vulnerable. Not many people are able to open up like that.
> 
> My other thought is regarding this quote
> 
> 
> I can relate to what you're saying in that there are certain times with my Beloved Buddhist when we are talking and laughing or when we have been doing something wonderful all day, and I am just overwhelmed with love and attraction for him, and for me that translates into thinking about hugging, kissing, and making love. What's funny, though, is that we have 100% opposite body clocks as it regards making love. He is one of those "early morning riser" kind of guys, and I am semi-conscious in the morning. I am a gal who like to make love at night as the cherry on top to a perfect day and he is semi-conscious at night. If we ALWAYS only did it in the morning, I would potentially feel like you do. And yet I'm also aware that if we always only did it at night (when I'm in the mood), HE might potentially feel like you do! I don't want that!
> 
> So one thing you may want to consider is changing your own point of view a little bit.
> 
> Just consider that maybe he has that nervous/edgy feeling being vulnerable...and yet he allows himself to feel weird like that because sobriety is important...to him and to you! So in a way that's quite a gift!
> 
> Another point of view that could change is that making love is something that is mutual, for both of you, and so it's not "your way" against or versus "his way"...it is the two of you together against or versus "the issue" (and "the issue" is the timing of making love). Thus, if you were on his side, but the two of you together were addressing "when might we make love so it is MUTUALLY enjoyable (not just his way or your way)?"...brainstorm a little. Could you switch "every other time" (for example, #1 is a quickie, #2 is a slowie) or could you say this week is his turn and next week is your turn? What other solutions might there be?
> 
> A final viewpoint that might be adjusted is the idea of rejection and that if it's a quickie, he is rejecting you and doesn't feel the same about you. I do not know if he has or has not come right out and told you "I do not want you" but if he hasn't said that, I would not assume that's how he feels. I suspect you may feel it, and that's understandable because you want candles and slow kissing! But that's really putting YOUR feelings onto him. So... instead I would say that HIS ideas and methods and sexual style ARE DIFFERENT THAN your ideas and methods and sexual style. Different does not equal "Bad"...it just equals "Not the Same."
> 
> Soooo...on one hand, it is very reasonable and thoughtful of you to consider maybe the trauma he's been through or his preferences--and on the other hand it is equally reasonable for you to respectfully request what you would like. The idea is that if you ask with respect, you give the other person the right to say "no" and honor their no...but since they are in a relationship with you, that means they agreed to RELATE with you. So if the answer is "no" cool--then the rule is that they tell you what they'd agree to say "yes" to! For example, if you want candles and slow kisses, why don't you just outright ask him, "The next time we make love, could we light some candles and kiss for about 5 minutes first, and then take our time going slower when we actually make love?" He has the right to say "yes I'd be willing to do that" or "no I'm not willing ot do that" and if he does say no, then have the rule be that he follows up with "... but I am willing to do ." For all you know, maybe candles make him nervous because he's afraid he'll knock it over and so he can't concentrate and enjoy "the fun!!" but he could say "UGH the candles make me nervous and distracted, but could we dim the lights instead?" Or he might say "Well picking 5 minutes seems arbitrary and kind of long to me--are we gonna watch the clock or something? I hear you saying you'd like to kiss longer first, so how about if we" and then give you his idea. Make sense?


this is very interesting. I’m gonna have to read this post about 4 times LOL. My one thing that I’m not sure about is your very first idea, he has been sober for two years. I think two years is long enough to get used to it, don’t you? The other thing is it’s not as simple as candles. He does not want to touch any parts of me. He uses a vibrator. That’s rough, it doesn’t make me feel good, although I can orgasm in less than three or four minutes. But that’s not what I want.
I have initiated at various times of the day, I have even been the person who takes control. I just can’t figure out anyway to make it any better. Thank you for your long thought provoking post.


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## Affaircare

Rebecca327 said:


> this is very interesting. I’m gonna have to read this post about 4 times LOL. My one thing that I’m not sure about is your very first idea, he has been sober for two years. I think two years is long enough to get used to it, don’t you? ...


I'm only going to address this part of your post for now, okay? I'll be blunt: no I don't think two years is long enough. Here's why: often people will drink as a way of "not feeling" something. For example, maybe he was assaulted in some way that REALLY shook him as a teenager, and being a kid he didn't turn to a family member cuz that would be weird, and he didn't have a buddy, so he just drank to "make it go away." He didn't really deal with it--he just put it off. Then he liked how drinking made him feel--friendly, loose, large and in-charge (whatever) so he kept on drinking. Then, it helped him deal with stuff like work stress or arguments at home, etc., and it gradually became something he needed to just be "normal" and not swirl around the drain. Right? 

Now here he is two years ago. Something happened that made him think or figure out, "Hey I gotta quit this or I'm gonna die!" or he'll lose something or there's some big event in his life like losing a parent, and he "gets it'--he's gotta quit! Okay, the first while you work on just the physical changes that happen when you stop drinking...because just on a physical level major stuff happens! Next, you work on some of the habits that may need to change, or some of the more mental things that need to change (like how you think "God I could use a drink")... with me so far? This right here is possibly about two years of doing things differently, feeling physically different, having to start new habits, having to change the way you think... And yet, all of this actually started WAY BACK when the assault thing happened. It all started as a way of coping with something that really hurt him or scared him or just made him want to not feel it anymore. And until that is faced and dealt with, he may well feel a little PTSD trigger. 

As an example, what if someone who was a coach, let's say, cornered him in the showers and made him touch the coach in the private areas. Your hubby himself maybe wasn't "raped" but it was a sexual assault and it freaked him out. So if that was the kind of thing that started all this, then every time someone touched HIS private area or any time he had to touch someone else's private area, he has this little trigger in his head that flashes back to how scary that felt and wanting to get the hell away and feeling edgy and nervous! That trigger doesn't go away until he faces that event and deals with it and feels that scary feeling he's been trying to avoid all these years. Some folks run their WHOLE LIVES rather than face that scary thing. Some folks would rather lose their families than have to face their scary thing. So it's serious and it's intense. 

Now, I don't know for a certainty that it's exactly like this, but perhaps some kind of variant...whatever his story may be that lead to drinking. But the point is that no, two years isn't "long enough"--it's a very good start though, and possibly just like he's gradually learning how to live a sober life, he could also gradually learn how to have a slower, more intimate sexuality AND feel safe and happy doing it.


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## Rebecca327

Affaircare said:


> I'm only going to address this part of your post for now, okay? I'll be blunt: no I don't think two years is long enough. .


Your advice seems spot on! He didn’t have any kind of sexual thing, but I totally get your point and I can apply it to his situation. Thanks for being blunt and explaining why 2 years isn’t long enough.


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## Young at Heart

Rebecca327 said:


> My husband and I have been married almost 21 years. He’s 48 and I’m 52. We’ve had a lot of trouble over the last 6 or so years. We started counseling 2 years ago and things have been a lot better, except in the bedroom. *My husband has intamacy issues which of course all stem from his childhood.* This has been diagnosed by his counselor who he’s been seeing about this for a year. He rarely wants to have sex and when he does it’s wham bam as fast as he can make me and himself orgasm, less than 5 minutes. He does not like touching.
> We are pretty good in other areas which brings on this difficulty. When we talk, have fun, etc I feel overwhelmed with love and attraction to him. *It kills me to be rejected and/ or wham bam. *It hurts so bad that he doesn’t feel the same as me.
> *The only thing I can think of to resolve this is for me to somehow ’friend-zone’ him so I’m not interested in sex with him *either and I’m not hurt by all this. I just feel we’d be great if I could get rid of the urge to make love with him even tho I know that sounds pretty weird and dumb


First of all you can't force someone else to change. They have to want to change themself. However, you can give them positive reinforcement to changes they initiate that you like. You can also change your behavior or the dynamic between the two of you so that they have to change. However, you can't predict how they will change, it may be for the worse.

I am a real believer in visualization and the power of forgiveness. Friend-zoning your H is a very bad idea. You would be far better off saying affirmations of love and forgiveness a few times each day than Friend-zoning him.

Intimacy requires one to let down one's guard and become vulnerable. He may have a hard time in being vulnerable with you. Friend-zoning is either getting even or emotionally pushing him away and withdrawing from a real marriage.

Good luck.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

DownByTheRiver said:


> You may well get to the point where you can do that because you're reaching the age where it can happen. a friend of mine and her husband get along better now that neither one of them wants sex. In a way he was similar to yours in that he really didn't want to do Hands-On affection but just wanted to get himself off looking. So it was just arguments for as long as they've been together.
> 
> Things calmed down a little when they both were about 50 or so. Your husband sounds like he just has problems with intimacy and affection and that's a pretty big deficit to have.


Agree, but the about 50 yrs old sex may slow down (implied?) isn't absolute, it's more on a per couple I'd think.

Personally, in our 50s, entering empty nest and with appreciation of quality time, DW and I are back up to honeymoon quality and frequency of sex. No rush mornings and afternoons are great. 5-8 times a week are the norm.


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## Sfort

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Personally, in our 50s, entering empty nest and with appreciation of quality time, DW and I are back up to honeymoon quality and frequency of sex. No rush mornings and afternoons are great. 5-8 times a week are the norm.


Exactly. Things happen at all ages that diminish some couples' sex lives, but in many ways, the over-50 generalization is not accurate. I'm speaking from experience.


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## 24NitroglyceriN26

Rebecca327 said:


> My husband and I have been married almost 21 years. He’s 48 and I’m 52. We’ve had a lot of trouble over the last 6 or so years. We started counseling 2 years ago and things have been a lot better, except in the bedroom. My husband has intamacy issues which of course all stem from his childhood. This has been diagnosed by his counselor who he’s been seeing about this for a year. He rarely wants to have sex and when he does it’s wham bam as fast as he can make me and himself orgasm, less than 5 minutes. He does not like touching.
> We are pretty good in other areas which brings on this difficulty. When we talk, have fun, etc I feel overwhelmed with love and attraction to him. It kills me to be rejected and/ or wham bam. It hurts so bad that he doesn’t feel the same as me.
> The only thing I can think of to resolve this is for me to somehow ’friend-zone’ him so I’m not interested in sex with him either and I’m not hurt by all this. I just feel we’d be great if I could get rid of the urge to make love with him even tho I know that sounds pretty weird and dumb


Can you ask him to wait unil you get yours by telling him you will tap him on his back when finished?


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