# Feel like a bad mom -- questioning therapists advice



## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

Hello. I will try to give a synopsis of what's been happening the last several months in my marriage and family. I've been a reader of TAM for a couple of years but have never posted. I'd truly appreciate some objective feedback.

I married my H almost 6 years ago, my 2nd marriage his 1st. We have known each other since we were kids (about 35 years) as we are from the same small town. He was also one of my sister's closest friends for 25+ years so I feel like my family and I know him very well. 

I have 3 kids from my first marriage, who were 16, 14 & 9 when my current H and I got married. My kids and my H got along great. My exH left me for his mistress, who became the focus of his attention soon after he moved out. So once I was dating my current H, he stepped up and filled many of the roles that my exH was no longer fulfilling. Two of my kids chose to live with me full-time since their dad didn't seem too interested in their daily lives and activities. Again, my current H stepped up and parented them with me.

In October, 2015, my youngest daughter (then 15) told me she had started cutting herself. I immediately contacted our doctor who referred us to a therapist. Within a few visits, it was clear that my daughter had anxiety disorder with depression and was having panic attacks as well. She continued weekly therapy sessions, which I took her to, which is a 2 hr drive each way. She only cut a couple more times and made good progress in dealing with anxiety, and the panic attacks stopped about 8 or 9 months ago.

My H has been a police officer for 18 years. He's always been a very laidback, easygoing guy that's everybody's friend. About a year ago, he started experiencing some subtle changes in personality - was irritable off & on, became grumpy about going to kids activities, spent more time alone, etc. These behaviors slowly became more prominent over the fall but nothing that was blatantly concerning or intolerable. His job had become more stressful the fall, he commuted 90 minutes each way, and he had blown out his ACL in the spring, leaving him off work for a few months - so finances were a huge worry, too. I attributed his irritability to these stressors.

At a therapy appointment in December, my daughter (then 16) told her therapist that my H had sent her a couple of texts that she felt were inappropriate. When the therapist told me, I immediately went into Mama Bear mode, and told my H to move out. The therapist hotlined it, and we went thru an investigation for eight long weeks through Child Protective Services. My daughter was interviewed by our local PD, the case worker, her therapist, and a specially trained interviewer who works with the court system in cases of child abuse. My H was interviewed by the case worker, a therapist, and his interview was reviewed by the Sheriffs of 2 separate counties. All of these people came to the same conclusion - there was zero evidence that anything inappropriate was done or said to my daughter. My husband sought out a therapist and she was very confident in her assessment that he had PTSD, which affected his perceptions and personality/behaviors. It was an "aha" moment when we looked at it thru someone else's eyes. She also told me on 2 occasions that she didn't believe he ever had any inappropriate feelings or behaviors toward my daughter. 

My daughter now refuses to believe that my H wasn't coming on to her, even though she has repeatedly denied that he ever did or said anything to her in person that made her uncomfortable or that she felt was inappropriate. She is adamant that I divorce him and don't look back. Her therapist and I agree that her anxiety has skewed her perceptions of reality regarding many situations, this one included. She's undergoing EMDR therapy now to hopefully change her emotional reactions to this so she can work through it and move forward.

My husband also voluntarily sought out a new therapist who has 10+ years in treating both victims and perpetrators of sexual abuse. This therapist has confirmed that she sees absolutely NO indications that he ever felt anything inappropriate toward my daughter. In fact, she told him this last week that he didn't really need therapy at this point because there's nothing wrong with him and she can't do anything to help us until my daughter moves past this.

The current recommendation from both therapists is that my H and I do not see each other at all. They want me to focus 100% on my daughter, which I understand. However, I feel like we are feeding into her false perceptions of having been "abused". Not surprisingly, her bio dad suddenly became super involved with her in December when this all started - which is also a huge positive reinforcement for her to continue to refuse to even consider that she misinterpreted the texts from my H. Basically, she now has her dad's attention back, the full attention of her mom every day since my H lives 2 hr away, and so her world is pretty much how she wants it. My parents, my son (23), and my close friends agree that my D has other issues that need dealt with - and that this current course of me not seeing my H or talking to him when she is around, is counterintuitive and feeding into her beliefs. 

Has anyone had any experience with a situation like this? Or have any thoughts about the best way to proceed? I feel like my life is in limbo - I'm married, believe my husband and several other people who have found zero evidence of any wrongdoing, but I have no marriage at all. I'm miserable and sad most days, as I'm not seeing any hope of my daughter moving through this. Day to day, she's doing ok - she's graduating HS this coming December and planning her future. I feel very guilty that I feel so frustrated with her and angry at her sometimes. 

I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who has suggestions for how I can possibly better deal with and/or fix this mess. Please ask questions if something needs clarified. Thanks.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I can only offer you condolences. My wife says that unfortunately she sees no options for you other than to complete your parenting task, and resume your life once your daughter has moved out. 

The truth does not matter.

Sadly.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
It seems rather counterintuitive to me as well. It would seem more prudent to have your daughter work through this issue to better prepare her for later life. If she gets a job and accuses a man there similarly it could ruin his life or at the very least make his life very miserable for a long while. It would seem that her issues need to be addressed and not accepted and mollified by removing your H. She is wrong and usually it is the person that is wrong that must accept what is right. Would this not reinforce to her that it is right to be wrong?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Did you ever see the text? Was it really so awful it ended up causing this much trouble? No, I am not blaming anyone or need to know what was sent. I'm just curious if anyone read or saw it aside from what your daughter stated and the therapist related. Unfortunately, I have zero advice. I'm not going to add anything because it will only make you feel guilty and you shouldn't.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

What a horrible situation. What did the texts say? Was there any possible misinterpretation of it? Did she go to someone immediately and show them the texts?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I suspect, and fairly certain, the authorities read the texts. Probably the therapists did as well. We certainly don't need to know. 

The therapists made the decisions they made based on what they know. It is what is needed. For reasons.

Things the daughter needs to learn she needs to learn. With therapy. It can begin while she lives at home, yes. But it would not be wise to paint a bulls-eye on the step-father's back.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

WilliamM said:


> I suspect, and fairly certain, the authorities read the texts. Probably the therapists did as well. We certainly don't need to know.


It's called context, I didn't ask for the actual content. I am asking if she or anyone else saw them. Before I post any conjecture or any opinion I would like to not fuel her guilt or anger.



> The therapists made the decisions they made based on what they know. It is what is needed. For reasons.


 Yes and therapists have been wrong and have made mistakes. So, I am asking for more information.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

Thanks for the responses. My daughter only had 2 screenshots that she shared. She took the screenshots, then deleted the rest of the conversation. In hindsight, I find it odd that she specifically picked the 3 or 4 texts she wanted to share while erasing the rest of their messages. Without the context of the convo, the texts could appear to possibly be borderline inappropriate. However, within the context of the entire conversation, they clearly were not.

And no, she didn't tell her therapist right away. The texts were from September and October, she reported them in December. Throughout this time, she continued to act toward him the way she always had, so there were no signs that she was bothered by these texts or felt uncomfortable around him at all.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if I had been put through what your daughter did to your husband, I would NOT come back if she were there. She could still come up with accusations that authorities would be forced to check out. I'm betting this guy's life was pretty much wrecked by your daughter. 

I think you sjo I'd just deal with your daughter and if your husband wants a divorce, give it to him with compassion.

This is a sad story.
I don't see how you both can have a marriage with your daughter present.

Does your husband even want to come back?


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

He very much wants to stay married and he's willing to wait until she moves out for college next year for us to be back living together. Hes willing to try and reconcile a relationship with her if she can move past this and be somewhat accepting of him as my husband. 

On a side note, her therapist was great with her cutting, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. But she's only been a counselor for about 20 months and told me that she's never dealt with anything like this before. She admitted she should have handled it differently the first few weeks. However, my daughter loves her and wouldn't consider seeing a different therapist. And her newly involved bio dad wouldn't either.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Its hard to say without knowing what he said to her, but if he has done nothing wrong I feel so sorry for him. The fact that she deleted most of the message sort of makes it look like she set him up and planned to get rid of him. 
Even when she is at college she will be home for long holidays so what then? 
Will she be able to control everyone's lives for ever? Does she know that all these professionals have said that he has done nothing wrong? Its not as if she has accused him of touching, it was 2 texts probably taken entirely out of context. Maybe she actually manipulated him into saying certain things to trap him. I don't understand why the therapist are saying that its best for your daughter if you don't see him.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thank you. This is why I asked for context because it sounds like everyone jumped the gun. If he sticks around, hopefully you appreciate what he did for you and is doing for your daughter. Abuse, molestation and rape are awful and I am not trying to minimize them. Still, he is now permanently labeled and there is NOTHING he will ever be able to do to change minds. 

If he wants to stick around and he is good to you, you are extremely lucky.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Clearly there is no way that your husband should ever be anywhere near your daughter again. If she is making false accusations, then it's to protect him. If her accusations are true, then it's to protect her.

Do you still have the cell phone that those messages were on? There are ways to pull up deleted cell phone messages. 

What an awful situation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Did your ex husband put her up to this?

Also it is possible that your daughter has serious mental health issues that mean she could be a potential danger to you your husband herself and others.

Many therapists are trained to deal with anxiety disorders and little else.

Your daughter needs a full psychiatric investigation from a doctor who is a fully qualified psychiatrist.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Do you still have the cell phone that those messages were on? There are ways to pull up deleted cell phone messages.


That was my first thought, too. But more so, why doesn't your *husband* still have these texts on his phone, if they were all so innocent? Hell, I have texts between my son and I from over year ago still on my phone. You're relying on her texts to figure this all out, and it sounds as though he doesn't have any of those texts to vindicate himself.

I'd get both their phones and run DrFone on them (or any of the other un-deleting programs available).


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Clearly there is no way that your husband should ever be anywhere near your daughter again. If she is making false accusations, then it's to protect him. If her accusations are true, then it's to protect her.
> 
> Do you still have the cell phone that those messages were on? There are ways to pull up deleted cell phone messages.
> 
> What an awful situation.


I am pretty sure with that type of investigation that the authorities got all of the texts they needed to see from the carrier.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

My daughter and H have no seen each other since this started in December. As if now, there's no plan for them to until she moves through this stuff, hopefully after EMDR therapy. 

I also think she needs a therapist with more experience. However, she will not agree to a change and her bio dad won't either. Plus, changing now could trigger her to begin cutting again as it would definitely increase her anxiety. So I'm hoping the EMDR will be effective the next few weeks. 

My husband has always cleaned out his his texts, from everyone including me. After a few days or weeks, he deletes everything he doesn't need. I do the same thing so I don't find that odd on his part. I do find it strange that she screenshotted just a couple of his texts to share, but deleted everything else. Especially if she felt he was being at all inappropriate. And she has no answer as to why she did that.

My H and I had a great marriage before this all began. It was easy, we're best friends. He loves my children as his own. 

I have so much guilt that I'm angry at her and feel she's manipulating the entire situation. Her therapist says that's normal behavior for a 17 year old girl, but I don't think it's healthy to allow it in this case because it's hurting other people. The therapists say we have to approach treatment as though she's been abused, because that's what she believes. If we say it didn't happen, it invalidates her and she'll never move past it. I just dont understand how agreeing that she was abused, when she wasn't, is beneficial. It definitely isn't fair to my husband.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

2ndgoround said:


> *He very much wants to stay married and he's willing to wait until she moves out for college next year for us to be back living together. Hes willing to try and reconcile a relationship with her if she can move past this and be somewhat accepting of him as my husband. *
> 
> On a side note, her therapist was great with her cutting, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. But she's only been a counselor for about 20 months and told me that she's never dealt with anything like this before. She admitted she should have handled it differently the first few weeks. However, my daughter loves her and wouldn't consider seeing a different therapist. And her newly involved bio dad wouldn't either.


The poor sap. No backbone at all in his home life, it seems.



2ndgoround said:


> *My daughter and H have no seen each other since this started in December. As if now, there's no plan for them to until she moves through this stuff, hopefully after EMDR therapy.
> 
> I also think she needs a therapist with more experience. However, she will not agree to a change and her bio dad won't either. Plus, changing now could trigger her to begin cutting again as it would definitely increase her anxiety. So I'm hoping the EMDR will be effective the next few weeks. *
> 
> ...


She's not the one paying for the therapist, now, is she? No wonder she's doing all of this, you grant 100% power to her. She rules your home, and she knows it.

No. This is not normal behavior for a teenager. But it is normal behavior for a teenager who was raised without boundaries and good examples from the adults in their life.

I want to challenge your DD's therapist's assertion that you must treat with her delusions as though they are real. I've never known that to be sound advice. Especially not with kids. You're setting her up to think she can do this to other people. You are failing in the position of parent. Do you think it's good to reinforce the bad behaviors, to reward them? 

Here's the reality you face: If your H is living somewhere else, your daughter has won. You've granted her the divorce she wants in effect. She won't stop pushing for it until she gets it in fact. And no amount of validating her feelings that your H is trying to get into her pants is going to change that. It will only reinforce it. Waiting until she moves out isn't going to make her leave your life, and magically stop demanding you get rid of your H.

I'm amazed often that people fail to understand basic incentive vs disincentive theory. You get more of what you reward.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I know we have no clue whose telling the truth, but deleting everything makes more sense, guilty or not, than deleting an entire conversation and taking screenshots of selected inappropriate texts.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't know what to advise here, but the OP's daughter is likely going to screw up everyone's life she touches. If bio dad who suddenly shows interests has an opinion that carries such weight that he "wouldn't allow her to change therapists", it would make sense for HIM to let the daughter come live THERE. If she started cutting while living exclusively with her mom, wouldn't it make sense to put her in an environment that didn't result in that behavior?(Assuming it was nurture, not nature). 

It looks like daughter has learned with efficiency that false accusations and "cutting" gets one lots of attention. It's unlikely that she's going to want to give the attention up. The therapist.should be replaced. 

Also, I think the OP's husband should be angry as hell that his wife immediately jumped to divorce him when he's done nothing but good for her. That being said, I do respect OP for being willing to dump a husband fast when in fear of her daughter being violated, even if she loves him. Sure seems like she should have checked into things a little further before going ballistic, given the daughter's history of mental problems. 
Then again, hindsight is 20/20.

Still, I'd be beyond angry if this happened to me. There would be no going back.

So recap: Is bio dad willing to let the daughter he supposedly cares so much for, willing to provide a home for her?

I think that's an option if OP's husband is stupid enough to return.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Ok, considering this doesn't make you a bad mother. What about your daughter moving in with her bio dad? Is that an option? You would need to be very careful with how it's presented so she doesn't think you're pushing her off to get your husband back home, maybe speak to the therapist before you even consider it. 

My thinking is a change may be good for all involved, or maybe it would be to unsettling for her, I don't know, just tossing out an idea.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Does anyone else think it's suspicious that all this started when bio Dad came back into the picture? And that he objects to finding a better therapist for the daughter? It seems awfully convenient. 

I think there may be some parental manipulation going on, with the OP as the target. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

2ndgoround said:


> I just dont understand how agreeing that she was abused, when she wasn't, is beneficial. It definitely isn't fair to my husband.


It absolutely isn't fair to your poor husband. Kudo's to you for being cautious when the accusations came to light - any responsible parent would do just that. However, now that the allegations have been thoroughly investigated by multiple child protection/police agencies and completely disproven, you need to take charge. Your daughter needs to cut this **** out right now.

Why are you letting her make all the rules? She's got the entire family running after her. You are the mum, you are paying for the therapist so change it! Your daughter doesn't get a vote. If she continues to refuse, along with her father, tell her that you will not continue to pay someone to essentially destroy your marriage and that your daughter needs to go and live with her father.

Very suspicious that with the re-entry of her bio dad that this all happened...

Your husband is not safe around your daughter. He mustn't ever be around her again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Deleting texts is not, of itself, suspicious. In fact some anti-virus software for mobile phones regularly sends a reminder to delete your texts for security reasons.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I used to see a lot of women put on online dating profiles that "their kids come first, and if you can't deal with that, move on."
I always thought poorly of that statement. It's as if they feel that their mate has to be placed Second before they even start.
Yeah-- until the new guy has shown himself worthy and they get marrie, he's likely not even in the top 5. But once married, there shouldn't be this "kids come first" attitude, I don't think. The spouse should occupy the "first" status just as one who has three kids should have each child occupying "first" in the mother's life. 

My point: Her husband who has proven himself a good man and good stepfather should not have to be cast aside because daughter is "first". One should consider the welfare of their spouse as just as important as the children. Who is to take are of the children should the Dad be neglected?

The daughter is in the wrong, and her needs trump both the mother and father's????

I don't know exactly what should be done here, but I do know this guy has been greatly wronged, and OP is STILL doing this man wrong putting her husband last.

She will be lucky if he doesn't start realizing that his wife and her kids are not including him in their life, and finding a woman who CAN include him.

I'm kinda angry myself for this poor guy.

At least OP seems to be clearly bothered by this. And she doesn't know what to do.
One thing is for certain, the husband sho has been proven blameless should get to return home, and the lying, coddled, troubled daughter should either deal with it or move to her "loving biodad's" home, or some kind of institution for troubled youth. She needs help that I don't believe she can get in a normal family home.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Let me try to answer to a few of them and clarify a couple of things.

Kivlor - yes, I agree that she is basically getting what she wants by my H living 2 hr away, me not seeing him or talking to him when she's around. But that's because we are following the recommendations of 2 therapists - 1 who has extensive experience in treating both victims and perpetrators of abuse and their families. We trusted her advice based on her 10+ years if experience with similar situations. But now I'm questioning it - that's why I'm here.

My D is a spoiled child, but does not rule the roost. She has a healthy fear of being in trouble or disappointing me. She refuses to go out with her friends to parties because she is afraid I'll find out. I don't even have a bad temper and she's only been grounded a couple of times, so I'm not sure where this fear comes from. But it seems to keep her behavior in check.

She did do the cutting while living with me. However, this was after about 4 years of missing her dad's attention and desperately wanting it. When she told me about cutting, I called him. He swooped in and was all sorts of involved the first few weeks- then he faded back away again once she was no longer cutting. (She has discussed with ber therapist at length about her dad choosing his new wife and her kids over his own family. The therapist agreed it was a huge trigger in her anxiety.) A few months later, the accusations about my husband came out - and bio dad once again is super interested in her. He began texting every single day, etc. So now the therapist praises him for his involvement, which I think further reinforces my daughter's behavior.

My daughter does not want to live with her dad. She's been with me full time for about 4 years. She even quit staying weekends or any overnights with him because she didn't like being there - And he never fought to keep her there or try to make her want to come over. Her stepmother can be a ***** and makes her feel really unwelcome. She never felt like her dad's house was a "home" for her. My house has been her only home and safe place for over 7 years now. 

I'm giving some thought to the idea of changing therapists. I'm not sure how it could physically happen as she's not a little child I can force into my car and drag into an office. Plus, her bio dad would continue to take her to her current therapist anyway because he's all about doing what she wants, so I'm not sure how to get around that.

On a side note, my daughter is a great young lady in many ways. She's very respectful of her teachers and elders, is involved in cheerleading, show choir, is a class officer, is taking college classes as a Junior in HS, and has great plans to be a pediatric nurse. She's never once been in trouble at school. I don't want to paint a picture of her as some horribly troubled and awful teenager.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't get this. The investigation had to have turned up the deleted conversations along with he suspected inappropriate texts.
Sounds like you would have seen it all, and that your husband is cleared of all wrongdoing.

So with all that in mind, WHY is it that your daughter hasn't been required to accept that her stepdad didn't do what she said and is lying, and your husband asked to return? 

She is just given free rein to lie and face no consequences? Your husband has faced HUGE consequences of her lies.

You say she doesn't rule the roost, yet there your own husband stays at her whim.

i just don't understand. 
She's ruined the guy's life and your marriage for no apparent reason, yet she's a great kid that makes good grades and never gives anyone trouble. Except her step dad. She's given him hell.

I am totally unable to get my head around this.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Does anyone else think it's suspicious that all this started when bio Dad came back into the picture? And that he objects to finding a better therapist for the daughter? It seems awfully convenient.
> 
> I think there may be some parental manipulation going on, with the OP as the target.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


This is why I asked for context. He's a cop, my father in law is a cop. To be fair, they know all of the rules and everything to hide something. That being said, it sounds like a multi-jurisdictional investigation. While we can't see texts from our companies, I've watched enough Dateline and other shows to see many companies hold texts from your phone longer than the lie they put in your contracts. The most basic ones I've seen hold them for 90 days, which is well within the time frame of this investigation and a subpeona. Also, the Step-dad did EVERYTHING asked to prove he did nothing wrong.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

I agree completely - it's very confusing and makes no sense. That's why I'm here and asking for outside opinions. To me, as soon as my H was cleared if any wrongdoing, it would seem as though my daughter's therapist would have said something like, "listen, I know you interpreted a few texts to mean xyz, but that's not what they meant - and it's been proven by several people. So let's figure out why you're so insistent on continuing to believe something happened when it didn't."  However, that's NOT what is being said, nor anything close to that. The therapist who is the expert in abuse says it does not matter if the texts were inappropriate or not-- all that matters is that my daughter feels like they were, so we treat the situation as if the accusations are true. In essence, they say she isn't lying because she truly believes it happened. 

I don't want to hurt and alienate my kid. I don't want to make decisions that may cause significant damage to my relationship with her, because we have been very close since her dad and I divorced. I am ok with making decisions that she doesn't agree with, but not at the expense of our relationship. I couldn't live my life knowing I'd intentionally hurt one of my children. This is something I struggle with daily. It eats me up every waking hour. I'm trying to wrap my own head around it, so I can't expect an outsider to totally get it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

2ndgoround said:


> I agree completely - it's very confusing and makes no sense. That's why I'm here and asking for outside opinions. To me, as soon as my H was cleared if any wrongdoing, it would seem as though my daughter's therapist would have said something like, "listen, I know you interpreted a few texts to mean xyz, but that's not what they meant - and it's been proven by several people. So let's figure out why you're so insistent on continuing to believe something happened when it didn't." However, that's NOT what is being said, nor anything close to that. The therapist who is the expert in abuse says *it does not matter if the texts were inappropriate or not*-- all that matters is that my daughter feels like they were, so we treat the situation as if the accusations are true. *In essence, they say she isn't lying because she truly believes it happened. *


With all due respect, this seems a bit nutty to me. Of COURSE it matters whether or not they were inappropriate. It matters because your husband is likely an innocent victim and being punished horribly for something he hasn't even done.

Your daughter may not be intentionally lying, but it sounds like her perceptions of reality are way off. Personally I think it's time for a new shrink.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@2ndgoround

Did those people doing the investigation only look at the texts that your daughter saved off? Or did they take the phone and get all of the deleted messages off of it?

From what you have said, it sounds like she has found a way to get her father's attention on her terms. If the accusations are false, this is the explanation that makes sense. Too bad her father does not find a healthier outlet for giving her the attention that she so badly wants.

I think that you are right for questioning the counselors she is seeing. Feeding into fantasy seems like a very bad way to 'help' a child.

If this were my child, I'd let her father take her to this counselor if he thinks what's who she needs to see. I'd also let him pay for it. It's easy for him to insist on this counselor if all the driving and time spent is left up to you.

And I'd suggest to him that he might want to think of something more enjoyable to do with his daughter besides taking her to counseling.

Have you spoken to her father about your thoughts on this?


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

You have a great and close relationship with your daughter, except she is contorting some texts, and manipulating the situation, to do terrible damage to your husband and marriage. And based on your description of her, she is bright enough to grasp what is happening.....doesn't sound like she is living in fantasy land. Not really such a good relationship from this end.

But the cutting and manipulation/lying about abuse is a major scream for atrention.....and everyone incl the therapists are giving lots of attention. For a therapist to in essence destroy a marriage over a handful of harmless texts demonstrates an utter lack of a clear and direct approach to the daughters real issues. Very sad.

What did these texts say or allude to? You have carefully avoided details of any kind. With the lack of further law enforcement followup, we can only assume they are benign. Why are you letting her stand fast with her supposed self delusion? Or were they flirty or border line suggestive? This info would certainly add credibility to this set of discussions, and the therapists suggestion.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

The thing is OP, I really feel for you. You are in between a rock and a hard place. You essentially have to choose between your husband and your child.

Your husband, despite being cleared of any wrongdoing, can't go back and live with you while your daughter is there. He's not safe - what will she accuse him of next? If I were in his shoes, there's no way in hell I'd be going back while she still lived there.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

2ndgoround said:


> Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Let me try to answer to a few of them and clarify a couple of things.
> 
> Kivlor - *yes, I agree that she is basically getting what she wants by my H living 2 hr away, me not seeing him or talking to him when she's around. But that's because we are following the recommendations of 2 therapists - 1 who has extensive experience in treating both victims and perpetrators of abuse and their families. We trusted her advice based on her 10+ years if experience with similar situations. But now I'm questioning it - that's why I'm here.
> *
> ...


So, has your daughter been abused? If so, how? If not, why would you treat her like an abuse victim?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You seem like a totally reasonable person, OP. I can see based on what your therapists are telling you that you are struggling to do the right thing. Here's my uneducated opinion:

Fact: your husband has done no wrong, and has suffered humiliation, lost his family, and is now living alone.
Fact: Your daughter has falsely accused him.
Fact: Therapists are making money off your daughter returning and this situation remaining unresolved.
Fact: Your life is being disrupted due to your daughter, losing your husband and paying for therapist visits and time spent taxiing her there as well.

Do you see that all these facts involve lots of hardship for everyone but your daughter?
Do you see that continuing to allow your daughter's needs to monopolize everyone's life is wrong?

Last of all: IS YOUR DAUGHTER MAKING PROGRESS? WHEN IS SHE GOING TO BE "FIXED"? If the answer is never, then you're out a husband and a life. Just saying. IF your husband waits a year for all this to end, he is a freaking SAINT. And it likely will never end. She'll come back from school. Is he expected to stay in a hotel when she is not at school? This is just crazy. She shouldn't be able to lie and ruin everyone's life. Either she's crazy or she's not. If she is, she needs to go get it from a psychiatrist. If she isn't, she needs to accept that she's lied and totally ruined a man's life for no reason---- and freaking move on. With DOCUMENTED false accusations.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Apart from having parents who have divorced(as millions of other children do), I cant see why your daughter has any need to cut herself, or needs counselling or accused her step dad of this 'abuse' unless its to get attention and make sure the whole family does exactly what she wants or she will cut herself again and scream 'abuse' again.
This wont change until you or her therapists stand up to her and clearly say that nothing happened and she has no need for any therapist who deals with abuse because she was not abused in anyway.
I suspect that if you told her that your husband was coming back, she would use more manipulative tactics and start cutting again to make sure it didn't happen. 

I know many people who actually WERE abused by a dad or step dad. Your daughter had NO reason to be acting up the way she is. I suspect that her dad put this idea into her head to make trouble and ruin your marriage. 

Nothing will change, even when she is at college what will happen in the holidays? Will he have to move out again?

What does your husband say about all this? He must be devastated and deeply hurt. Does he want to come back?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

@2ndgoround

If your daughter has not been abused, has she been neglected? 

If I asked you 10 yes/no questions about your daughter and her childhood, could you tell me how many YES answers she would give?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I know and knew cutters and they have a very poor background. Something really bad happened or as Kivlor posted there was neglect. You know what else they did? They lashed out at the wrong people at times. Honestly, she very well may have felt what he said was inappropriate and it could have been, but the new therapist took to a level she couldn't back away from. This makes me wonder if anyone has really checked to see what made her cut herself. Did the therapist or anyone else entertain if she was abused previously and the texts he sent were actually a trigger? She could have reacted poorly not for manipulation, but because she was in fear of a repeat of something which already happened and lies undiscovered.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

A bit more of history to answer some of your questions:

My ex and I were happily married for many years. We planned all 3 of our children- this daughter is our youngest child. We were very involved parents from day 1, coaching ball teams, attending all school and extracurricular activities, spending a lot of good times together as a family. My kids have some great memories of those times. 
Our divorce came as a complete shock to them, as we never fought or had shown any signs of problems. (We divorced because he told me he'd been having an affair for 18 mo.) The only possible "neglect" she may have felt was once his mistress and her kids moved in and he quit spending time with his own kids. My daughter has struggled a lot with his absence the past few years - it has been the topic of many conversations between her and I, as well as her and her therapist.in my opinion, that's a huge part of why she was cutting and now why she is adamant about having been "abused".

I've not spoken to my exH about her The past 3 or so months because he refuses to even look at or talk to me. He told our son (he's 23) that he doesn't care what all the investigators and therapists have said, he believes they're all wrong. So he is also reinforcing my daughter's belief that she is right about everything. To me, that's emotional abuse but no one else seems to think so. He does take her to her therapist every other week and we split the cost. 

I've done a lot of reading and research about cutting after she did it. It's a lot more common than most of us realize, and doesn't always indicate a teen is "crazy". She cut a total of 3 times and hasn't done it in many months. Again, once she stopped cutting, her dad withdrew his attention until this situation started.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks, you realize you danced around my question. The divorce is huge, but it doesn't mean something else couldn't have happened. Also, it isn't emotional abuse to support your daughter. You supported her to the point your husband was thrown out and still lives away from the house. If believing his daughter is emotional abuse then your actions were as well. You do realize, you are building the case for Evinrude's suggestion this is about winning her father back. 

She cuts, he stays. She stops, he leaves. She makes an allegation, he comes back. 


Let's make sure we get something straight. It was a couple of alleged inappropriate texts and she never admitted touching or any type of abuse correct? You see how EVERYONE, including myself, leapt to molestation, abuse and rape? This is what I mean by how ugly these types of allegations can be. You can never get this part back and to some he will always be guilty. Yes, I feel bad for your husband. Even if people come in and say "well maybe he was grooming her." There is no proof of anything short of some screenshot and investigated texts. He's done everything he was asked, went to counseling, was diagnosed with PTSD, was exonerated by multiple agencies and is still being punished.


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## 2ndgoround (May 14, 2017)

I'm sorry if I didn't answer your specific question. I'm trying to respond to several comments at a time so I may not reply to each one specifically. 

First, my daughter was asked numerous times (by her therapiat, the caseworker, police, myself, etc) if my H ever touched her or did/said anything to her *in person* that she felt was inappropriate. She answered "no" to that question every single time it was asked. Her therapist and his both mentioned grooming and said they neither saw not heard any evidence of that, either.

As far as we all know, there is no history if abuse from anyone at any time. As a baby and child, she went to a daycare at her grandmother's house where she was well loved and protected. She's never shown indications of having been coerced into sex, but I also realize she might not have told anyone for fear of being judged. However, I doubt that's occurred simply because she is a talker - she doesn't keep secrets. She tells me or her sister everything. She couldn't even hide her cutting from me - she told me after the first time she did it. But her therapist has said she believes my daughter is not dealing with something in her past and that's playing a big role in this current mess. 

I don't think my exH is emotionally abusing our daughter by supporting her. I mean it seems to be emotionally manipulative/abusive on his part to intentionally deny the truth to feed into her misperceptions for his personal gain.

And yes, I definitely see why you'd question if there was more than just texts. Believe me, that was forefront in my mind as a mother when she first brought up these allegations. My husband has suffered immensely and I recognize that. I have apologized to him for my daughter's accusations and the subsequent affects on his life. He also admits, however, that he had changed a lot and wasn't himself, which caused his irritability, negativity, and isolation. In hindsight, classic PTSD that we just didn't pick up on. And these negative behaviors were also aimed at my daughter, which altered her perceptions and opinions toward him.

I'm happy to report, however, that my H is doing well, all things considered. His panic attacks have stopped, and his daily anxiety is very manageable. His therapist told him he can stop therapy because he is doing great. He will resume seeing her if he has any other issues, or when we get to the point where my daughter will consider hearing his side of the situation. 
He is in the process of initiating a program at work for employees to educate them about PTSD. He's planning to offer an annual inservice on identifying the symptoms early, provide info on available resources, and share his personal experiences with others. I think it's great that hes working to turn a horrible experience into something positive that can help others.


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