# Advice how to handle this please



## kzoomom (Jul 26, 2017)

My husband are having marriage troubles. Basically because I've recently told him that I am emotionally and intimately over him. I feel he has taken me for granted for years and doesn't understand why I am now distanced in our marriage. Now....now he is trying to make it work in the marriage...not 10 months ago when I asked him to stop drinking and stay home more....only in the last 4 months when he realized I was about to walk out the door. Now he is telling me that he doesn't trust me, that I have mislead him (i am guessing because of my feelings finally being heard). He told he that living on my own would be difficult that I didn't make that much money at my job, that my job was not that good.

We have been talking and talking and he is trying, being on his "best behavior"...helping around house, being better with our son, taking initiative, etc. All these things we fought about for years, things I've brought up over and over again for years...and nothing ever changed. So now that he knows how serious things are...now he is trying to change. But for me, it makes no difference. My feelings are practically dead toward him, that no matter what he does, I feel so indifferent about it. I feel so selfish. But that is how I feel, I waited and waited for years and got my heart broken so many times, let down so many times, that I think I am all done.

Well, my husband now keeps putting these guilt trips on me...I love you so much, can't imagine my life without you, I want to grow old with you, I don't imagine my life with anyone else, etc.

He is making me feel so guilty and I do feel guilty for a lot of things, the things I've done. But what about the years that I didn't get what I wanted, needed? How do I forget about all that? I guess I am supposed to forgive...but I just can't. And I can't get those intimate feelings back either. Those have been gone for quite some time now. I honestly can say I am fine with NEVER having sex with him again.

Is it right that my husband is saying all these things? I know he is voicing his feelings and he has every right, after what I've told him how I feel. But I don't want to be "guilted" into staying in a marriage that perhaps cannot or shouldn't be saved. Or stay because I'm afraid of hurting him or how he will "survive" without me.

Over the years he has done some mean and selfish things. He missed my grandma's funeral for opening day of hunting, he was never home to watch his son grow up for the first 2 years of his life, he never wants to go back to my family events, told me I was 250 lbs when I was pregnant (which I was not), while I was pregnant he was never home and always drunk, the list can go on and on. 

SO frustrating!

Where do I get strength to voice what I really want to tell him. Everytime I start to he puts me down somehow.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Kzoomom,

Substance abuse is a big hurdle for the substance abuser and their loved ones to overcome. I think that the changes your husband has implemented are positive - especially if they have been consistently positive over the last 4 months. However, it sounds like there is a lot of fighting and blaming going on here. It sounds like you may be struggling with some co-dependency.

Have you done any kind of trial separation? (As in, living apart, no communication for an agreed amount of time)
Have you seen individual councilors or marriage councilors? 
Have you tried communicating only in writing? Or, alternatively, have you tried using a "talking stick" method when things get tense? (It can feel childish at first, but it legit works.)

Right now, because of all the blame you describe flying in both directions, it sounds like you both need space from each other to reflect on yourselves.

How is your son handling the emotional turmoil in the home? How is his emotional development, and his educational development? If your son's well being represents a common goal for both of you, this may be a good centerpiece to focus around. (Or not, if it just leads to more blame game. Then, seek a marriage councilor, and probably psychological help for your kiddo.)

Sounds like you're really in the throes of it. Try to stay centered.
Kayla


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you okay with being manipulated?


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## kzoomom (Jul 26, 2017)

Hi Kayla,
We have not done a trial separation. If I leave with our son, I don’t think I would come back  The substance abuse has not stopped over the last 4 months or so. He still drinks, just not every day or as much. He actually drank more days in the month of June that he didn’t. July started out that way until I said something to him, now he is not doing it (at least in front of me). 

I would like some space from him to be honest. He is constantly asking me to arrange a vacation for us to take as a family, and the only thing I can think of is I want a vacation for myself (since I have not had one in 3 years and he has one every year). I have seen a counselor for awhile. I stopped going because I sounded like a broken record. He does not see one. Back in December 2016 he said he didn't need to go and we didn't' need marriage counseling. He said that whatever we would talk about in there, we could talk about at home and save money and time. Now he is willing to go to counseling but I don't know if I want him to. I have read that taking a controlling/manipulative person to a couples counseling session is not the best idea.

I believe our son is doing ok. We try our best to hold back the anger and fighting until after he goes to bed. Our arguing doesn’t usually involve yelling anyway. My husband is the one that snaps and yells and calls me names in front of him, I do not. I actually keep my cool.

Kzoomom


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## kzoomom (Jul 26, 2017)

@farsidejunky - no I don't like being manipulated. How do I stop this? How do I call him out on it? How do I let him know that I think that is what he is doing to me?


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

It's difficult I know.. For years I have hoped, begged and pray that he sees the light... I have so much anger in me that I don't know if I'll ever forget.. Spouse is trying some I see it BUT I think I'm done or just numb right now. mentally drained....

It sounds like you are so ready to move on. Don't let the guilt get in your way, you have to do what's best for you and your son. I think spouse can work harder at your relationship. It just sounds like he's doing the minimum to keep you quiet.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kzoo:

It really depends on whether you want to save the marriage or not. If you try to save it, you will emotionally carry him for a year, possibly more, and it will get worse before it has a chance of getting better...with no guarantees of it ever getting better.

Your choice will determine your course(s) of action.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I've seen this sort of thing on TAM alot and I think that it has the common denominator of the husband not knowing how serious the situation is when his wife tells him that she's unhappy. I bet you never told him during all the time this was going on that you would leave if nothing was done on his part. I think that your husband being on his best behavior lately is a positive sign that his willing to change now that he knows the seriousness of the situation. I think some of the blame for this is yours for not telling him that you would walk if he wasn't willing to change. Everyone grumbles about something during in a marriage, your H probably was having a hard time separating the grumbling from serious issues 

So many people don't take marriage seriously these days. If you're unhappy about something, they think you're free to to leave whenever you damned well please. That's not really what marriage is for. It's times like you're going through now that you are expected to find a way through, keep the marriage going and keep your family together. If you didn't want that you shouldn't gotten married. 

You mention he is drinking. All drinking doesn't necessarily point to substance abused. How much is he drinking and how many times a week? Do you want him to stop all together? Does he know that?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

kzoomom said:


> My husband are having marriage troubles. Basically because I've recently told him that I am emotionally and intimately over him. I feel he has taken me for granted for years and doesn't understand why I am now distanced in our marriage. Now....now he is trying to make it work in the marriage...not 10 months ago when I asked him to stop drinking and stay home more....only in the last 4 months when he realized I was about to walk out the door. Now he is telling me that he doesn't trust me, that I have mislead him (i am guessing because of my feelings finally being heard). He told he that living on my own would be difficult that I didn't make that much money at my job, that my job was not that good.
> 
> We have been talking and talking and he is trying, being on his "best behavior"...helping around house, being better with our son, taking initiative, etc. All these things we fought about for years, things I've brought up over and over again for years...and nothing ever changed. So now that he knows how serious things are...now he is trying to change. But for me, it makes no difference. My feelings are practically dead toward him, that no matter what he does, I feel so indifferent about it. I feel so selfish. But that is how I feel, I waited and waited for years and got my heart broken so many times, let down so many times, that I think I am all done.
> 
> ...


You are what they call a 'walk away wife' you and your H should look this up, there is alot of information on the internet about this. Your scenario is very typicl. H neglects his wife and prioritises everyone and everything else, wife complains and eventually reaches the snap line, the point of no return.

It may be possible to salvage the marriage and for love to return. But words from your H are not enough, you need to see actions. Consider MC before you pull the plug. YOu may have a lot of resentment to deal with and that it is not good to take that with you, even if you don't stay in the marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> I've seen this sort of thing on TAM alot and I think that it has the common denominator of the husband not knowing how serious the situation is when his wife tells him that she's unhappy. I bet you never told him during all the time this was going on that you would leave if nothing was done on his part. I think that your husband being on his best behavior lately is a positive sign that his willing to change now that he knows the seriousness of the situation. I think some of the blame for this is yours for not telling him that you would walk if he wasn't willing to change. *Everyone grumbles about something during in a marriage, your H probably was having a hard time separating the grumbling from serious issues *
> 
> So many people don't take marriage seriously these days. If you're unhappy about something, they think you're free to to leave whenever you damned well please. That's not really what marriage is for. It's times like you're going through now that you are expected to find a way through, keep the marriage going and keep your family together. If you didn't want that you shouldn't gotten married.
> 
> You mention he is drinking. All drinking doesn't necessarily point to substance abused. How much is he drinking and how many times a week? Do you want him to stop all together? Does he know that?


JB, I do not agree with the bolded. The problem is husbands see it as nagging and refuse to listen until it becomes volcanic in proportions, then it is too late. Why can't men also be responsible for the temperature of the relationship?
There are many men, who once they marry, got wifey there, they go off and pursue, career, hobbies, friends, drinking, etc and assume wifey who is usually working, housekeeping, child rearing, is fine. She complains about the neglect and lack of attention (women need affection and conversation) but as long as he brings her for the odd meal, gets sex then all is honky dory. She eventually withdraws and gives up complaining, but has lost love for her husband whereas now there is no more nagging, he thinks all is well and goes back to his default position. Meanwhile she is thinking of escape.
That is why there are so many more divorces started by women nowadays after the kids are grown. They put up with this treatment and decide enough is enough. Why can't men get this?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

aine said:


> JB, I do not agree with the bolded. The problem is husbands see it as nagging and refuse to listen until it becomes volcanic in proportions, then it is too late. Why can't men also be responsible for the temperature of the relationship?
> There are many men, who once they marry, got wifey there, they go off and pursue, career, hobbies, friends, drinking, etc and assume wifey who is usually working, housekeeping, child rearing, is fine. She complains about the neglect and lack of attention (women need affection and conversation) but as long as he brings her for the odd meal, gets sex then all is honky dory. She eventually withdraws and gives up complaining, but has lost love for her husband whereas now there is no more nagging, he thinks all is well and goes back to his default position. Meanwhile she is thinking of escape.
> That is why there are so many more divorces started by women nowadays after the kids are grown. They put up with this treatment and decide enough is enough. Why can't men get this?


The same can be applied to men's complains to women. If the complaints don't come anymore, what are you supposed to think?? If you're driving your car and everything is fine there are no warning lights on, are you supposed to pull over and automatically think something's wrong? If something is that wrong in your marriage where it pisses you off so much that you would divorce over it, don't you think it's worth addressing over and over until it gets fixed?? If you don't speak up how is your spouse supposed to know anything is wrong?? 

I think what you wrote is nothing more than a huge cop out. Instead of fixing the problem, just blame someone else and quit. It's easy for women because they collect and basically are rewarded for divorcing, while men have to give up what they earn. You even said yourself that women are the ones who start these kinds of divorces. If women put up with things without addressing them, that's on them. They shouldn't get rewarded for not reporting something they want a divorce over.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

kzoomom said:


> My husband are having marriage troubles. Basically because I've recently told him that I am emotionally and intimately over him. I feel he has taken me for granted for years and doesn't understand why I am now distanced in our marriage. Now....now he is trying to make it work in the marriage...not 10 months ago when I asked him to stop drinking and stay home more....only in the last 4 months when he realized I was about to walk out the door. Now he is telling me that he doesn't trust me, that I have mislead him (i am guessing because of my feelings finally being heard). He told he that living on my own would be difficult that I didn't make that much money at my job, that my job was not that good.
> 
> *We have been talking and talking and he is trying, being on his "best behavior"...helping around house, being better with our son, taking initiative, etc. All these things we fought about for years, things I've brought up over and over again for years...and nothing ever changed. *So now that he knows how serious things are...now he is trying to change. But for me, it makes no difference. My feelings are practically dead toward him, that no matter what he does, I feel so indifferent about it. I feel so selfish. But that is how I feel, I waited and waited for years and got my heart broken so many times, let down so many times, that I think I am all done.
> 
> ...



Stop buying into the guilt trips. If you meant so damn much to him, he would not have been neglectful and abusive and would have given a damn how you felt. He is a grown man and when you leave, he will have to take full responsibility for his own life and it isnt your problem if he fails himself. 



kzoomom said:


> Is it right that my husband is saying all these things? I know he is voicing his feelings and he has every right, after what I've told him how I feel. But I don't want to be "guilted" into staying in a marriage that perhaps cannot or shouldn't be saved. Or stay because I'm afraid of hurting him or how he will "survive" without me.
> 
> Over the years he has done some mean and selfish things. He missed my grandma's funeral for opening day of hunting, he was never home to watch his son grow up for the first 2 years of his life, he never wants to go back to my family events, told me I was 250 lbs when I was pregnant (which I was not), while I was pregnant he was never home and always drunk, the list can go on and on.
> 
> ...


Fake it til you make it. Even if you dont feel you have the strength, keep moving anyway. You are DONE, I can tell, I have been there before myself. And thats OK. It sounds like you have stayed and dealt with more than your share of crap. And even now with him suddenly trying to be Mr Husband, he is STILL drinking, so how serious could he be that there are going to be any real changes? Make your exit plan and go.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I can't count how many times I "grumbled" over issues with my ex. Surprise he still didn't think it was serious until I actually left. 
If someone is complaining - listen! Why should we have to keep repeating ourselves? Some men think we b*tch just for fun. We are telling you very important information that needs to be addressed. Take it seriously and listen. 
Marriage is not something you just let sit and happen until you get some huge warning sign that it's failing. It's continued effort, evaluating, listening. Dating, time, attention.

My ex would try for a bit, go back into his usual self. 

I didn't profit one bit from the split. Most men and women are worse off directly after a divorce. 

Unless the wife is a sahm or has seriously less earning potential she isn't going to get that much help from her ex to support herself and kids. 
If she earns more she will be the one paying. 


It's really not fair to say women benefit from divorce while men pay for it.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

His sudden desire to 'help' and be more present won't last.

It's not who he *is*.

His whole entire adult life he's had a 'mommy' to do everything for him but chew his food. As is the case most of the time, he was just fine laying on his dead ass on the couch while YOU did everything - *after* working your full time job. 

His real 'fear' isn't for YOU not being able to afford being on your own, it's for HIMSELF actually having to get off his lazy ass and cook his own meals, scrub his own toilets, do his own food shopping, fold his own laundry, mop his own floors, pay his own bills, and know when the hell to come in out of the rain. Up until now, 'mommy' has done all that for him.

And your *thanks *for all that - day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year- is a lazy ass, inconsiderate, ungrateful, self-entitled, selfish, childish jack-hole.

I don't blame you a bit for leaving. *Not one single bit*.

Don't worry too much about Peter Pan having to make it out on his own. It's high time he grew the hell up. 

Not your circus, not your monkeys.


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## kzoomom (Jul 26, 2017)

@She'sStillGotIt - So where do I get the strength to tell him I want a divorce? I have been manipulated, controlled, gas-lighted and emotionally abused for so long that I feel like whatever I say gets turned around and is my fault again. He tells me he is trying, he wants our marriage to work, he loves me, he doesn't to break up the family. 

Then when he knows the discussion/argument is not going in his favor he tells me things that I have a good job, just not that good of a job. When I call him out on that and tell him it was a rude comment (because I have a great job), he says its a good job but you don't make that good of money to live on your own. Remind you, I make quite a bit more than him.

He has snapped at me 3 times in the last few months too. 1) he was supposed to take our son to swim lessons and he was trying to get out of it and I was holding him to it. He started yelling in front of our son and told me I was acting like a *****. 2) he picked our son up from daycare and he had a poopy diaper (he is 3), he said every time he gets him from daycare he is ****ty. you sure did pick a ****ty daycare. Remind you....he has only really started picking him up THIS YEAR. 3) since I have been withholding sex from him because it does not feel good and hurts me he got mad. He stood up and screamed at me (with our son on my lap)....pack your **** and get the **** out. I said ok. We will leave, then he said you are not taking my son. I said I am not leaving without him. After that he backed down and begged me not to go.

He has treated me terrible and taken me for granted for years. I need to find the strength to tell him I don't want to live here anymore. How??????????????????


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Kzoomom, you're forgetting that you're an adult with free will and this is a free country.

He's NOT your captor. He's NOT your guardian. He's NOT your warden.

He's an abusive ass-hole whose manipulated you and coerced you into accepting his atrocious behavior for many, many years. He's nothing short of an abusive bully whose gotten his way with you and has frightened your kids for more years than you can count.

But he's NOT your warden. You don't live in a country where women are nothing more than cattle. You're a human being with basic rights and you DO have a voice. For far too long, you've simply held the belief that you're in no position to help yourself, and you're WRONG.

You should seriously contact women's services for abused and battered women in your area. Not only can they give you good advice on how to go about freeing yourself from someone like him, but they can also point you to different services and agencies that are able to help abused women get OUT of their situations. You don't have to have a black eye or broken arm to be abused, Kzoomom. Sometimes women are too afraid (like you) to stand up for themselves and seek out a better living situation, and hopefully, one of these agencies can guide you and provide you with the necessary tools to help yourself.

You can do this. You can. :smile2:


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

kzoomom said:


> @farsidejunky - no I don't like being manipulated. How do I stop this? How do I call him out on it? How do I let him know that I think that is what he is doing to me?


Don't call him out on it. When he says something to try and give you a guilt trip about something or something manipulative, come back at him with simple short statements that prove him wrong and leave it at that. Don't accuse or be confrontational, just be blunt and to the point. After your short comeback, change the subject to something positive about the two of you, even suggest doing an activity together. You need to show him that not only are you going to deal with his crap anymore but your not going to let it bother you anymore. He knows he's wrong and has been wrong, he's trying to work on things but at the same time deflect from the fact that he is the cause of the problems to begin with. You need to be as blunt as possible without being confrontational but still let him know that you haven't given up.


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## Anthony Wellers (Jul 29, 2017)

aine said:


> You are what they call a 'walk away wife' you and your H should look this up, there is alot of information on the internet about this. Your scenario is very typicl. H neglects his wife and prioritises everyone and everything else, wife complains and eventually reaches the snap line, the point of no return.
> 
> It may be possible to salvage the marriage and for love to return. But words from your H are not enough, you need to see actions. Consider MC before you pull the plug. YOu may have a lot of resentment to deal with and that it is not good to take that with you, even if you don't stay in the marriage.


I agree.

I found an article about 'The Walking Away' wife in Psychology Today. Here is an extract;

"These are the men who readily schedule appointments for therapy, sign up for marriage seminars, read every self-help book they can get their hands on....Gradually, they become the husbands these women have been wanting."

"But for so many women it’s “too little, too late,” or “I know this is not going to last. If I stay in this marriage, you will go back to your old shenanigans,” which, though completely understandable, is nonetheless, tragic. That’s because, rather than feign “appropriate husband behaviour,” most of these men sincerely undergo a personal transformation that shifts their priorities forever. They typically make great second husbands."

This may or may not be the case with you. He may really be trying, or he could be putting on a good show for his own sake.

His anger anger towards you sounds like frustration at not being able to win you back. You've closed a door on him, which is understandable. Do you really want to end it because you have no feelings for him any more, or because you don't WANT to have any feelings for him. There may be something to work on and build upon, but you will both have to work at it.

On the other hand, if you feel that there really is no hope anymore, well, you know what to do.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> The same can be applied to men's complains to women. If the complaints don't come anymore, what are you supposed to think?? If you're driving your car and everything is fine there are no warning lights on, are you supposed to pull over and automatically think something's wrong? If something is that wrong in your marriage where it pisses you off so much that you would divorce over it, don't you think it's worth addressing over and over until it gets fixed?? If you don't speak up how is your spouse supposed to know anything is wrong??
> 
> I think what you wrote is nothing more than a huge cop out. Instead of fixing the problem, just blame someone else and quit. It's easy for women because they collect and basically are rewarded for divorcing, while men have to give up what they earn. You even said yourself that women are the ones who start these kinds of divorces. If women put up with things without addressing them, that's on them. They shouldn't get rewarded for not reporting something they want a divorce over.


The point you seem to miss is that they (wife or husband) have complained ad nauseam but are told they are the problem, they are nagging, etc, so after many years of complaining they decide there is nothing to be done. Then they hatch the get away plan.
The work of Michele Weiner-Davis is very informative on this syndrome. It exists, I am not saying it is right but it happens and especially with women who have reared their kids. 
Personally I understand where these women come from being married to a man who thinks his job, drinking and going out with the guys is more of a priority, I nagged for years about his late nights, (he has also cheated) his lack of engagement, etc etc and planned to leave once my son left for college, now am getting more qualifications, he knows my plan and is now given up drink, trying to be the better man. Says he doesn't trust me not to leave :scratchhead: Go figure!
Why not do this when I was interested, now I have one foot out door. How to respect a person like that, they know what will make their partner happy but refuse to do it because it is too much effort or doesn't align with the way they see the relationship. So it is not a cop out as you put it, it is an actual phenomena in many long term marriages.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Anthony Wellers said:


> I agree.
> 
> I found an article about 'The Walking Away' wife in Psychology Today. Here is an extract;
> 
> ...


Yes, these men start pulling out all the stops when they realise the pain of losing their family is more than the pain of changing their habits of a life time.
What does that say about them? It says that they are too bloody lazy or selfish to have taken the feelings of their spouse into consideration beforehand, when it mattered.

A bit like a crook who gets caught and slapped on the wrist by the judge but back-pedals when for the umpteenth time judge tells him he is going to jail. Huge character flaw there imo.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Anthony Wellers said:


> This may or may not be the case with you. He may really be trying, or he could be putting on a good show for his own sake.
> 
> H*is anger anger towards you sounds like frustration at not being able to win you back.* You've closed a door on him, which is understandable. Do you really want to end it because you have no feelings for him any more, or because you don't WANT to have any feelings for him. *There may be something to work on and build upon, but you will both have to work at it.*
> 
> On the other hand, if you feel that there really is no hope anymore, well, you know what to do.


I disagree. His anger towards her is controlling and abusive. I dont believe there is anything here to build on. He is a manipulator, just read her last post. This isnt a man distraught because he loves his wife so much, he is angry because he wants control. Look at how he curses and yells at her. Look how he puts down her job, making it sound like she cant make it without him so she will feel coerced into staying.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree aine and the problem with the men who scramble to fix things once they know you're serious,
They almost always fall back into their old routine once you've stopped nagging again. 

I did that stupid back and forth with my ex so many times. He still to this day says I "didn't even give him a chance" to fix things. 

It's like they are driving, the car starts making weird noises, then the check engine light comes on. They just think silly emotional car. Always complaining. And they just keep driving. They don't do regular check ups, don't put oil in. If the car really needed it, it would find a better way to let you know. It's still running so all must be fine. Just ignore the noises and leaks and warning lights. Turn up the music and you're good. 

Then it breaks down on the highway and they are all "WTF. You didn't tell me it was this serious?!"
And you've likely done irreversible damage to your car by letting it go so long without maintenance and checking on those silly, emotional warning signs. 

But then, my ex took way better care of his car than he did of me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

kzoomom said:


> @She'sStillGotIt - So where do I get the strength to tell him I want a divorce? *I have been manipulated, controlled, gas-lighted and emotionally abused for so long that I feel like whatever I say gets turned around and is my fault again*. He tells me he is trying, he wants our marriage to work, he loves me, he doesn't to break up the family.
> 
> Then when he knows the discussion/argument is not going in his favor he tells me things that I have a good job, just not that good of a job. When I call him out on that and tell him it was a rude comment (because I have a great job), he says its a good job but you don't make that good of money to live on your own. Remind you, I make quite a bit more than him.


You need to stop giving his words any merit. No matter how he tries to turn things around on you, focus your thoughts on the truth. YOU KNOW that you have a good job and can support yourself. (THANK GOD for that!!) So no matter how much he tells you otherwise, just look at him and remind yourself just how full of sh!t he is, whether it is about your job, or your choice of daycare or whatever the hell else it is he goes on a rant about. This has all been a mind game so that he can maintain control. 

Focus on detaching when he does this. The more you realize how full of crap he is, the more strength you will gain. If you are tired of being treated this way, YOU are the only one who can get you out. Visualize life on your own without someone making you feel like crap.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He refused to go to marriage counseling when it might have helped. He refused to do any of the things you asked when it might have helped to save the marriage. Now, it sounds like a matter of 'too little, too late'. 

Don't let anyone lay a guilt trip on you about not making him understand how serious you were. You spoke - he didn't listen.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> He refused to go to marriage counseling when it might have helped. He refused to do any of the things you asked when it might have helped to save the marriage. Now, it sounds like a matter of 'too little, too late'.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't let anyone lay a guilt trip on you about not making him understand how serious you were. You spoke - he didn't listen.




Amen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kzoomom (Jul 26, 2017)

Tonight for example, I try to explain to him why he hurt me over and over and he tells me that it all happened in the past and he is sorry. I told him i don't trust thst these changes he is making will stick, they never have before. I have asked and asked and it never happened until a few months ago so why should I believe them. He says well this is the new me. This is who I am now. 

Really? You never showed me a desire to be a family man until your wife tells you she is so unhappy and might leave.....now you are this great dad and great husband???? 

Aaaaaagggghhhh!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

OMG "the past"! It's like I'm hearing my ex in my ears again. 
Yes it was all in the past, even if it happened yesterday it was in the past. I had to get over the past. I don't let him try when I keep bringing up the past. 

Time alone heals nothing.
He drained your love bank into negative. That's where he starts. Not a blank slate, not at 0. 

Honestly, I could not get past the resentment. Even if he had changed for real and kept it, it was too much damage done.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

kzoomom said:


> My husband are having marriage troubles. Basically because I've recently told him that I am emotionally and intimately over him. I feel he has taken me for granted for years and doesn't understand why I am now distanced in our marriage. Now....now he is trying to make it work in the marriage...not 10 months ago when I asked him to stop drinking and stay home more....only in the last 4 months when he realized I was about to walk out the door. Now he is telling me that he doesn't trust me, that I have mislead him (i am guessing because of my feelings finally being heard). He told he that living on my own would be difficult that I didn't make that much money at my job, that my job was not that good.
> 
> We have been talking and talking and he is trying, being on his "best behavior"...helping around house, being better with our son, taking initiative, etc. All these things we fought about for years, things I've brought up over and over again for years...and nothing ever changed. So now that he knows how serious things are...now he is trying to change. But for me, it makes no difference. My feelings are practically dead toward him, that no matter what he does, I feel so indifferent about it. I feel so selfish. But that is how I feel, I waited and waited for years and got my heart broken so many times, let down so many times, that I think I am all done.
> 
> ...


*Did you ever try marriage counseling early on?*


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

kzoomom said:


> @She'sStillGotIt - So where do I get the strength to tell him I want a divorce? I have been manipulated, controlled, gas-lighted and emotionally abused for so long that I feel like whatever I say gets turned around and is my fault again. *He tells me he is trying, he wants our marriage to work, he loves me, he doesn't to break up the family.*
> 
> Then when he knows the discussion/argument is not going in his favor he tells me things that I have a good job, just not that good of a job. When I call him out on that and tell him it was a rude comment (because I have a great job), he says its a good job but you don't make that good of money to live on your own. Remind you, I make quite a bit more than him.
> 
> ...


What I hear from you in this thread: You are no longer interested in trying, and you don't believe his 'trying' will result in 'doing'; since you're done doing the doing for him, you know the marriage will no longer work; his actions don't express love for you, period - or, if some of his actions express love, the actions that don't express love outweigh them; breaking up the family may be the best thing - if you have daughters, they will see that standing up for themselves is possible and effective, and if you have sons, the expectations your husband didn't reach will become the expectations they must reach. 

So: Make temporary arrangements for the children. Can they go to Grandma's for two weeks? Nearby aunt or uncle? A close family friend? Then, pack your ****. Pack it all up. Don't just put it in boxes - put those boxes in a car or van. If you need to, open an individual bank account, take money from joint bank accounts if you need to, and change your direct deposit. If you need to, take some of the food from the house with you. Great, now you've done the physical heavy lifting.

Now, tell him. And then, all you have to do is drive away.

You're hard-working, and it's amazing you've kept it together underneath the dead weight and emotional abuse of your husband. You're going to be totally fine on your own.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> If you're driving your car and everything is fine there are no warning lights on, are you supposed to pull over and automatically think something's wrong?
> 
> The warning lights went on for years when she would tell him how she felt. He never listened, and she finally gave up.
> 
> ...


kzoomom, you are in fact a "Walk away wife." It is not your fault. Your husband's changes were too little and too late, and it is not your fault.

Actually, unless you leave, your husband will not really change. If you divorce him, he has the opportunity to really change, once he knows you are really gone. You could always marry him again, if he changed, and you became attracted to him again.

I'm not usually in favor of trial separations, because I've heard they usually lead to divorce. In your case it might be a good first step. You could see how your husband behaves when you are no longer living with him. If you see him really working on himself, and being consistent, you might have a change of heart. If you don't have a change of heart, it will at least give him a little practice on being on his own, and the D won't be such a shock later.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

If your husband continues being ugly during a trial separation then you will know that his "changes" were only a temporary show to trick you from leaving.

A man who wants to keep his wife when he sees she is walking out the door is a fool to insult her on her way out. He is giving her good reason to keep on going.

Has your husband admitted his bad behavior and does he feel true remorse over it? If not, he is not going to change.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

kzoomom said:


> *Tonight for example, I try to explain to him why he hurt me over and over *and he tells me that it all happened in the past and he is sorry. I told him i don't trust thst these changes he is making will stick, they never have before. I have asked and asked and it never happened until a few months ago so why should I believe them. He says well this is the new me. This is who I am now.
> 
> Really? You never showed me a desire to be a family man until your wife tells you she is so unhappy and might leave.....now you are this great dad and great husband????
> 
> Aaaaaagggghhhh!


Ok, now that you have done this, dont go here again. Stop arguing, stop trying to make your point, stop trying to get him to see your side. You might as well pick up a rock and talk to it. Its time to disengage. Everything he says is bullcrap anyway, and he doesnt actually hear you. Save your breath. 

I went through something similar with my first husband once he found out I was almost out the door. He used to barely ever even be in the same room as me, now suddenly he was sitting on top of me on the couch. Following me from room to room. Trying to cuddle me, hovering over everything I did. It was horrible and creepy, and I knew it was bull. Because THIS was not who he really was, this was just him trying to show me he could do what it was I wanted. By then it was too late, because who he really was was the man who ignored everything about me the entire time we were married. By the way, he never did change. After our divorce, he put effort in for his next wife for a while, but then went right back to exactly how he had been with me. She ended up divorcing him too. 

Detach. Disengage.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> kzoomom, you are in fact a "Walk away wife." It is not your fault. Your husband's changes were too little and too late, and it is not your fault.
> 
> Actually, unless you leave, your husband will not really change. If you divorce him, he has the opportunity to really change, once he knows you are really gone. You could always marry him again, if he changed, and you became attracted to him again.
> 
> I'm not usually in favor of trial separations, because I've heard they usually lead to divorce. In your case it might be a good first step. You could see how your husband behaves when you are no longer living with him. If you see him really working on himself, and being consistent, you might have a change of heart. If you don't have a change of heart, it will at least give him a little practice on being on his own, and the D won't be such a shock later.


A D would never have been necessary if the wife is more able to communicate her issues more effectively. All divorce does is give the wife an opportunity to grab power and create drama. Men don't need this. If women can't effectively communicate their issues, they should go unaddressed until they can.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> A D would never have been necessary if the wife is more able to communicate her issues more effectively. All divorce does is give the wife an opportunity to grab power and create drama. Men don't need this. If women can't effectively communicate their issues, they should go unaddressed until they can.


Communication only works when they both do it. She can talk 24 hours a day but if he doesn't hear it or thinks she's just nagging or being cranky, there's no point. 

She tried communicating. He still didn't address it until she actually decided to walk and by then it's too late.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

aine said:


> The point you seem to miss is that they (wife or husband) have complained ad nauseam but are told they are the problem, they are nagging, etc, so after many years of complaining they decide there is nothing to be done. Then they hatch the get away plan.
> The work of Michele Weiner-Davis is very informative on this syndrome. It exists, I am not saying it is right but it happens and especially with women who have reared their kids.
> Personally I understand where these women come from being married to a man who thinks his job, drinking and going out with the guys is more of a priority, I nagged for years about his late nights, (he has also cheated) his lack of engagement, etc etc and planned to leave once my son left for college, now am getting more qualifications, he knows my plan and is now given up drink, trying to be the better man. Says he doesn't trust me not to leave :scratchhead: Go figure!
> Why not do this when I was interested, now I have one foot out door. How to respect a person like that, they know what will make their partner happy but refuse to do it because it is too much effort or doesn't align with the way they see the relationship. So it is not a cop out as you put it, it is an actual phenomena in many long term marriages.


He finally found out you had issues and he addressed them, stopped drinking and tried to be a better man...but this destroyed the the trust he had in you as a wife knowing that you planned to leave anyway. I'd be pissed off to. All the effort he went through to save the marriage is going to end up doing no good at all. I just don't get it, you achieve what you want, getting him to stop drinking and being better but you still plan to leave. It's just not logical. But, I guess that's the way it is. I've given up years ago expecting logical behavior from my wife.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Because it's too little too late. 

He should have done it the first time she asked, not once she was ready to leave. How do you trust when he only tried when you're out the door?

A man acts in ways to keep you when he has you. He doesn't wait until you are going to leave. 

There's a big difference.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> A D would never have been necessary if the wife is more able to communicate her issues more effectively. All divorce does is give the wife an opportunity to grab power and create drama. Men don't need this. If women can't effectively communicate their issues, they should go unaddressed until they can.


jb, you are SOOOO bitter. Maybe instead of blaming women and divorce/divorce laws for your own unhappiness, why dont you stop making excuses and get out? It isnt "women" keeping you where you are, its YOU keeping yourself there. Do you really believe it can possibly be worse on the other side?? Because believe me, it isnt.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> He finally found out you had issues and he addressed them, stopped drinking and tried to be a better man...but this destroyed the the trust he had in you as a wife knowing that you planned to leave anyway. I'd be pissed off to. All the effort he went through to save the marriage is going to end up doing no good at all. I just don't get it, you achieve what you want, getting him to stop drinking and being better but you still plan to leave. It's just not logical. But, I guess that's the way it is. I've given up years ago expecting logical behavior from my wife.


He has NOT stopped drinking.


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## seabeeken123 (Aug 16, 2017)

aine said:


> JB, I do not agree with the bolded. The problem is husbands see it as nagging and refuse to listen until it becomes volcanic in proportions, then it is too late. Why can't men also be responsible for the temperature of the relationship?
> 
> There are many men, who once they marry, got wifey there, they go off and pursue, career, hobbies, friends, drinking, etc and assume wifey who is usually working, housekeeping, child rearing, is fine. She complains about the neglect and lack of attention (women need affection and conversation) but as long as he brings her for the odd meal, gets sex then all is honky dory. She eventually withdraws and gives up complaining, but has lost love for her husband whereas now there is no more nagging, he thinks all is well and goes back to his default position. Meanwhile she is thinking of escape.
> 
> That is why there are so many more divorces started by women nowadays after the kids are grown. They put up with this treatment and decide enough is enough. Why can't men get this?




I have to agree. It's so easy to put a marriage on cruise control and assume all is well. I've done it too and now my wife and I feel nothing towards each other. 

Seems like marriage is like a plant. You can neglect it, maybe throw some water on it here and there and assume it'll keep living until one day it just dies and you can water it and care for it but it's too late. It's just dead. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> He finally found out you had issues and he addressed them, stopped drinking and tried to be a better man...but this destroyed the the trust he had in you as a wife knowing that you planned to leave anyway. I'd be pissed off to. All the effort he went through to save the marriage is going to end up doing no good at all. I just don't get it, you achieve what you want, getting him to stop drinking and being better but you still plan to leave. It's just not logical. But, I guess that's the way it is. I've given up years ago expecting logical behavior from my wife.


JB, I haven't left yet! Part of me has hope but part of me does not. A lot of damage has been done over a long period of time. I am only now healing and that is because I have started to focus on myself, my kids have moved out and no longer need me to hold things together. I am progressing in my new work, am relatively self sufficient, I do not need a man to support me. I am currently working overseas and he put in very little effort to keep in touch with me. I have been very lonely and it hit me that he is who he is, he is not capable of really changing. I could have cheated, he may have, I do not trust him (he has cheated before). 
Yes, he has given up drink but that is no great shakes for me as that is the bare minimum, I will not continue to live with an abusive alcoholic period. He knows that is the complete deal breaker. So yes, it is a start but emotionally he is bankrupt and has stated as much. I do not look forward to another 40 years plus of an emotionally barren marriage, that is not what I signed up for. Perhaps we can build a new one, but I am not sure I want to tbh, he says he will do everything to make up for the past. All I have heard so far is words, talk is cheap, very cheap.
When I go back I will observe and watch the actions. If things do not change, I have no reason to stay. The kids are gone, so the jury is still out. This last few months have taught me that I can go it alone, in most respects I am already alone anyhow. I have spent years feeling lonely and bereft, only now I am healing. 
I want a marriage where we engage with each other, not ships passing in the night. He blames my job for not being available to go on trips with him yet he will put golf, meetings, etc all before me and comes home late from work (he does work hard and travels a lot) He would never cancel a golf game but my work is the problem. I spent years giving, no more. He does not like the fact that I no longer allow him to walk over my boundaries anymore. He would have preferred the status quo.


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