# I know what must be done



## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

I am married for the second time. The first time I was too young and not ready for the commitment. The second time I believed we had the whole thing figured out. 
She is my high school sweetheart and I do/must love her. We reconnected after separating from my former spouse. Everything seemed to click but I was still skeptical.
We dated for about a year then moved in together. She has two boys from a previous relationship; I have two daughters and a son with my ex. 
Everything started out as expected; lots of sex, arguments, adjustments, and compromise. As time went by the compromises were less frequent and life began to revert back to his and her not our. My children and family were problematic and are not to be part of our future. 
She is extremely critical on anything/everything I do/don't do. Example: last week she was gone for a week at a girls camp. While I enjoyed the peace and quiet, I still worked all day, everyday, came home, made dinner for her youngest son (everyone else is older and moved out). Cleaned the kitchen, cleaned the garage, fixed the van, replaced a broken fan, and maintained the house/animals/garden. Upon her return she noticed I had not vacuumed the living room; nothing else was mentioned.
I provide for her the best I can (house, vehicle, wants, and needs) and she still wants/expects more than I can possibly deliver. If I purchase or look to purchase anything that is an open invitation for her to spend whatever on whatever. If she doesn't like her purchase she gives it away and buys something different.
She tries to control my weekends to the point I just sold my motorcycle because I wasn't permitted to ride it without her with me and she never wants to go anywhere on it. 
My children (now all grown) are not permitted to visit and we do not go to them. They all live on the west coast and we live in the mid-west. 
As for our intimacy; We have had sex 3 times in 2 years. I have always had a high sex drive and when I bring up sex to her I am being "Naughty". She has become a sexual prude. I recently asked her what happen to the woman who wanted sex daily. she told me she only did that to win me over. 
Now I feel trapped with a woman I have no commonality with and wants me to provide for her needs/desires as she sits at home.
Her youngest son is moving away shortly (just finished high school). I fear I cannot live with her in this relationship. I already prefer working over coming home. I can control that environment; I have little/no control at home. 
I feel like my life is being sucked form me and I have no real future to look forward to. 
When I attempt discussing these things with her she criticizes me and belittles me. My feelings and thoughts have no place in the home but then she is upset when I do not communicate with her.
Needless to say, I have become bitter, angry, hostile, and frustrated. Luckily I am not violent.

I know this relationship (lack of a better word) is not healthy and needs to end. Her family has distanced themselves from her and I fear she would be isolated and alone. I know it shouldn't matter, but I do love her and don't want her to be miserable.
I find divorce/separation difficult to commit to; it's like a personal failure. I make difficult decisions daily as a business owner but cannot convince myself to make this one. That's money not emotions; completely different.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Did you give up your testicles in your first divorce? Just kidding. Mostly. 

As you said, you know what you need to do. Why drag things on?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Classic bait and switch...thing is she told you what she did. 

Do opposite of what you're doing. Just like George Castanza did in Seinfeld. 

Work on fixing yourself. 

Could she possibly be having an affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

I lost a lot in my first marriage; but I'm pretty sure the testicles are still in tact.:smthumbup:

I know she isn't having an affair. that takes effort and she puts absolutely none into any aspect of her life.

I once made a statement that I would probably lose attraction to my spouse if she let herself go too much. As of today (dr's appointment) she is the heaviest she has ever been; including while she was pregnant.

seems like she is testing the theory.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Why would you want to even consider staying? No kids. No support. No affection. No sex. No relationship. = No marriage

It may help you to do some research on BPD. Borderline Personality Disorder. This could accelerate your decision.

~ Passio


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Search, welcome to the TAM forum. I agree with Idyit that you are describing some of the warning signs for BPD, which my exW has. Of course, you will not be able to diagnose your W to determine whether her BPD traits are so strong as to satisfy 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can do that.

You nonetheless are capable of spotting the warning signs for having strong BPD traits if you take a little time to read about them. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about red flags such as strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, and always being "The Victim" (i.e., blaming you for every misfortune).

I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in Maybe's Thread. If that discussion rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. And, most likely, Idyit would participate as well. Take care, Search.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

So she is willing to sacrifice peace in the marriage to get her way, no matter how absurd or selfish it is, and you are willing to give up your needs for the sake of peace. Sounds like she has it pretty good.


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you for the informational feedback Idyit and Uptown. I have only heard of BPD and never even considered this to be problem. Yes, Scrambled it seems to me that she has it pretty good as well. I wish she felt the same. 

I will begin my research on BPD by looking at your links Uptown, then proceed as necessary.

Thank you so much for your information.


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

Uptown, your list for BPD is scary accurate. After reading and considering each in order I have found the following as absolutes and the others not listed are possible. She has been diagnosed with OCD and ADD.
1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
Anything or anyone she doesn't agree with is retarded. Something not working right is retarded. My ideas, decisions that do not align with hers are retarded.
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
I never say ILY to her. 
3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
This one goes without saying. My closest family is 1500 miles away. Even my own children are not welcome. If any family visits or we visit them there is conflict and tension with arguing and upset after things return to "normal"
4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
Absolutely, she owns the nicest vehicle between us, and I do mean own/in her name though my company purchased it. She wants something and automatically starts searching to buy, regardless of cost. Refuses to work in her off-time (she is a driver and works 20 hours a week with 3 months off a year)
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
Not much adoring here a late but she will, on occasion, show positive attention (rub my back) then complain about any/everything 
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
I always thought this was because she didn't know what real stress was and was making issues out of everything. 
7. Low self esteem;
Considers herself stupid and uses this as an excuse to not pursue anything. She isn't capable of doing anything by herself. Can't unload groceries from the vehicle, can't put dishes away alone, 
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
She has awaken me at night to argue about a dream she had. 
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
Will call me at work innumerable times and becomes very insecure/upset if I don't answer her call. 
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
In countless ways. Both in eating and spending
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
All alcoholics and abusive. She is likely to start the fight, escalate the issue, then say you are out of control when you get upset in return.
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
Absolutely was a lot more fun/spontaneous then. Now there is no commonality. No mutual goals/hobbies.
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
They change every few months anyway. She constantly wants to quit her job to pursue something different.
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
Yes, Venting and/or discussing every mundane detail of everything to the extreme.
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
She doesn't trust anyone and believes all her casual friends are seeking a sexual relationship with me.
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people;
She tells me how much fun she had at an event with friends but then complains about the women/people she was with at a later time.
I have often mentioned that her coworkers and friends get the best part of her because when she comes home she becomes angry and discontent.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Search - I'm glad Uptown chimed in as he is the man when it comes to this subject. The reason for my first post was because of what I learned from him. 

The search for an answer can be exhausting and when you've found it the prospects may not be so good. Uptown can certainly help with some next steps and understanding a BPD spouse.

In my own case her traits were not strong or matching very frequently. With those that did match and the addition of "sexual issues" I am navigating my marriage with a strong suspicion that she does have BPD.

~ Passio


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> She doesn't trust anyone and believes all her casual friends are seeking a sexual relationship with me.


Search, if your W has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she is so emotionally unstable that she is incapable of trusting herself. Until she learns how to do that, she will be incapable of trusting you and other people as well. Sadly, this lack of trust will undermine all her attempts to maintain LTRs such as a marriage. All close adult LTRS must be built on trust if they are to survive and not be toxic. Absent trust, there is no foundation on which to build the relationship.



> I have often mentioned that her coworkers and friends get the best part of her because when she comes home she becomes angry and discontent.


This is to be expected if your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits). It is common for a high functioning BPDer to treat coworkers, casual friends, and total strangers with kindness all day long -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her. The reason is that those other people pose no threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. The result is that, with HF BPDers, the loved ones usually are the only ones who have seen her dark side.




> I find divorce/separation difficult to commit to; it's like a personal failure.


If you've been living with a BPDer for several years, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me. Our problem is not that we want to help people. Rather, it is that we keep trying to help even when it is to our great detriment to do so -- and even when it is counter-productive. 

We do this because our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). Because our self esteem relies so heavily on our ability to "fix" things for other people, it is especially difficult and painful for us to cut our losses and walk away from a toxic marriage. Yet, if your W really is a BPDer and refuses to stay in therapy, walking away is exactly what you should be doing. Otherwise, you will continue to harm her by protecting her from suffering the logical consequences of her own bad behavior and foolish choices. Unless she is allowed to suffer those consequences, she will have no incentive to confront her own issues and learn how to control them.



> I make difficult decisions daily as a business owner but cannot convince myself to make this one [to divorce her].


Search, no matter what you do, the divorce process is going to be difficult. Moreover, if your W is a BPDer as you seem to suspect, she likely will become very vindictive when realizing that you are determined to leave her. "Abandonment," after all, is a BPDer's greatest fear (never mind that she is the one who is pushing you away). I therefore offer the following suggestions as a way of reducing some of that pain and nastiness you will encounter.

*As an initial matter,* I recommend that you NOT tell your W that you are worried about her possibly having strong BPD traits. If she actually is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

*Second,* if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you decide to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder._ Both books are written by the same author.

*Third,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board and "Leaving" board. Because all the children are now young adults, you may not benefit from the "Parenting after the Split" board.

*Fourth,* while you are at BPDfamily, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is #9 at *BPDfamily Articles*. If you've not already done so, I also recommend you read my more detailed description of BPD warning signs at my post in *Maybe's Thread*.

*Fifth,* I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and the children are dealing with. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists generally are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder. Hence, when BPD is a strong possibility, it is important to obtain an opinion from a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers.

*Sixth,* if your psychologist agrees that you are describing strong traits of BPD, I suggest that you avoid MC until your W has had at least a year or two of weekly therapy from a professional highly skilled in treating BPDers. I say this because MC typically is a waste of time with an untreated BPDer because her issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills (which MCs are so good at teaching). 

*Finally*, Search, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you Idyit and Uptown. I have been out of state for the past several days and was not thinking of issues/problems at home. Now I'm back and the problem hits me head on.
I appreciate all the information and feedback. This is a lot to digest. I will be taking more initiative to search out the recommendations suggested. It may take me a little while to get through this list of book, web, and forum reading but it will be done.
I will check in now and again with information and current circumstances.

Thank you so much for your time


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Search, thanks for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you two are doing. Am glad to hear that you found the information helpful so far. I look forward to your next update.


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

No progress, as expected. I just posted a letter of script to stay focused during the next talk she and I will have. This has been a long, emotional, and exhausting venture. It is reaching its end.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dude. You need to divorce.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Search_for_Happiness said:


> No progress, as expected. I just posted a letter of script to stay focused during the next talk she and I will have. This has been a long, emotional, and exhausting venture. It is reaching its end.


I read this thread after I posted to your 'letter to stay on point' thread. Now that I've read it, I wish I had put everything I said in bold and all caps.

*Please Do NOT TAKE ON ALL THE DEBT AND GIVE THIS WOMAN THE MAJORITY OF THE MARITAL ASSETS! *Mark my words - if you do, you will be sorry down the road. No matter what, this woman is not going to make a divorce easy on you. At least come out of it with what is rightfully yours.


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## header (Nov 14, 2015)

Search_for_Happiness said:


> I feel like my life is being sucked form me


And that's the only thing that's being sucked out of you.

Remember that as you proceed to divorce.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Search, thanks again for the update. I agree with *Header *and *HopeShimmers* that the draft letter -- and taking on all the debt -- will accomplish absolutely nothing and likely will put you in a weaker position. If she's a BPDer, the divorce process will get very nasty very quickly. My BPDer exW, for example, has me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail for three days. This is why I suggest last year that you read _Splitting_: _Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with_ _Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder_.



> She has been diagnosed with OCD and ADD.


Search, I forgot to comment on this statement when you posted it in June of last year. In my view, being diagnosed with ADHD (or ADD) as an ADULT is another red flag for strong BPD traits. Some psychologists believe _adult ADHD _(Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) may be the same thing as -- or perhaps a subset of -- BPD (see, e.g., Adult ADHD and BPD).


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## Search_for_Happiness (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you all for the comments thus far.

Hope Shimmers:The primary reason for taking on the debt is because A) She has no source of income. B) It is her and MY credit that will suffer when she can't/won't pay the bill. C) She is financially irresponsible and I know she will not keep her obligations.

Uptown: thanks for your insight. I was unaware the diagnosis of ADHD/ADD in adults was linked to BPD - that is not cool at all. I know the devastation that lies in the wake of this type of person. 

I literally lost everything in my last divorce; if I have given all assets and taken the debt it will essentially be the same situation but I will have come to terms with it before the courts take it. She always said she would "play nice" if we were to divorce; I have never seen it in the past or anyone I have every known. I fully expect hell.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

This sounds extremely unhealthy. If anyone ever tells you that they did something just to win you over then they are not showing their true self. So this is telling me that she put up a mask to get you to marry her and now that you did she feels comfortable and that she can get away with anything as she pleases. She also sounds pretty controlling and manipulative...but the biggest thing that you said was that your kids are not allowed to visit. Well...they are YOUR kids and that is YOUR home they can visit if they damn well please and you say they can. She's their step mother, but she needs to be more caring towards them and realize that your kids will always be first before her. So that is selfish and shows some jealousy as well. If you don't want the divorce just yet then try marriage counseling first...but honestly it sounds like you married someone who was not showing their true self and now the veil is down and it may be best to walk away.


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