# Trying not to be a fool



## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

This is my first time posting anything online so I guess I'm at a point that I've never been to before.

My husband and I have been married close to 14 years. He was married before, this is my first marriage. For the first 9 or 10 years I thought we were really happy and it seemed as if we rarely fought. Looking back, I'm wondering if things were really as good as I remember.

For the past several years, we have been fighting more. Part of the fighting was caused by poor communication. If I try to have a discussion about something that is bothering me, my husband ALWAYS changes the subject. He usually becomes extremely angry and brings up something that he believes is similar to what I wanted to discuss, but is something that I've "done to him". I've asked him why, if I did something, he didn't tell me something was bothering him. He usually says oh, so its a different standard for you. I think this is his way of not addressing my concern and trying to put me on the defensive. Some times he will bring up things from 5-10 years ago. I've asked him to go to counseling on more than one occasion, but he has refused. I have gone off and on by myself.

Now to the present. With the exception of when we were first dating and I had petty jealousy, I have always trusted my husband. He has never afforded me the same trust. Any little thing that I don't tell him about (a doctor's appointment, every detail of what happened at an out-of-state meeting, etc.) I must be hiding from him. As I've explained, just because I forgot to tell him something doesn't mean I'm hiding it.

About 3 months ago, my husband started a new job that he really enjoys. In this position, he interacts with many people which suits his personality very well. I have had no issue with this until recently. Several weeks ago, my husband asked me if I cared that he stayed late at work. He did ask if I wanted to join him, but I don't enjoy drinking as much as he does and didn't want to "hang out" with the group. I did ask him to please not be out really late. This has been an issue before. If he says that he'll be home at 10pm, I'm unhappy if he's not home until 1am. I think it's a matter of respect. This time, the party started at approximately 430pm and he said that he would be home shortly after dark, 930 or so. Around 1020pm, he left me a message on my cell, but I was in bed. I woke up around 1230am and he wasn't home yet. I sent him a text. He called me at 1:07am and was slightly belligerent and asked if I was mad. When he got home, the front of his shirt reeked of patchouli. First he denied it, and then said that someone must have sat on his shirt at the pool. This sounded pretty ridiculous to me, but I kind of let it go. Two days later, he was back at work and called and asked if I minded that he hang with the group for a little while. I said ok, but asked that he be home around 2 or 3pm. He said no problem. When it got to be 515pm I was really angry. I sent him a text and he called me asking what the big deal was. Since he had not called me during the day, I decided to look at our phone records to see if he had bothered to call one of his friends or a relative (sometimes he'll tell me he wasn't near his phone). When I looked, I was very surprised to see a phone number that I didn't recognize. We had a huge fight when he got home. He mentioned an old married, male co-worker of mine who I am in contact with. More research showed that there were a lot of calls and texts to this number over the past two weeks. My husband does not enjoy texting. I also noticed that these always happened when I was not around. It took me a few days, but I figured out that this person is a single woman who lives where my husband works. I was upset, but didn't want to jump to any conclusions. The next day, he called and said he was going to hang out with the group for a little while. My gut told me that this woman was going to be part of the group. I decided to show up at his work. When I did, my husband was sitting next to this woman. I walked up to her, introduced myself as the wife and then left. My husband followed me out to the parking lot and asked what my problem was. I asked him how well he knew this woman. He said, "I don't know". I eventually explained that for someone he didn't know that well, he had been speaking with her pretty often. When I asked what they spoke about, he insisted that she talks to him about her kids. Needless to say, I am skeptical. I left his work and he stayed out there for another 3 hours or so even though I was extremely upset. When he got home, we had another huge fight. He accused me of cheating with just about every male that I've ever worked with. I said that I was not discussing anything but the issue at hand. I asked him to go to counselling again. He refuses. Every day after that, he has tried to have sex with me. I told him that I didn't want to. He said that I never want to. I replied that while i still find him desirable, over time when my issues never get resolved, it made me resentful and that being resentful does not lead to me wanting to have a lot of sex with him. We do still have sex although not as much as he would like.

Yesterday, I thought we were going to sit down and try to have a discussion about some of these things. He called from work and asked if I minded if he had one beer with this group. I asked if this woman was part of the group, and he said yes. I told him that it was difficult for me to say ok, but that I would deal with it if he was home in 1 hour. At the time he was supposed to be home, he called and said the group wants you to come out here and have a drink. I said no. It seems obvious that he is more into partying and hanging than trying to resolve any issues. I guess this should be a pretty big indicator of how committed he is to me.

I am FED UP. Am I so naive and blindly trusting that I am ignoring obvious signs? 

Forgot to mention that when I asked if he ever figured out who wore so much patchouli, he did eventually tell me that the woman he was talking to was the one who wears patchouli. He also dumped all of the calls and texts from his cell and started keeping his work phone with him at all times when he previously would leave it sitting anywhere.

He says his issues with me are that I never want to do anything with him and that I hide things from him.

Any thoughts, comments, advice would be welcome.


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## Jojara (Aug 1, 2012)

Wow- sounds like the man is having an affair with this woman. Especially the part about him blaming YOU for doing it. I truly believe that when you are so quick to point your finger, its because of the three pointing back at yourself. Even if they haven't had sex, an emotional affair is just as bad. It might be a good idea to keep showing up unannounced- and as awful as this is- try to catch him in a situation where he is forced to be truthful with him. 

Then castrate him....its simple. 

Kidding...that wasnt very nice of me at all!!! :O (< shocked face!!!) hehe.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Definitely having some sort of emotional affair....draw a line in the sand and see what happens..









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks Jojara. This is so unlike me and how I typically think about my husband. While I acknowledge that we have some issues, I've never that infidelity might be one.

Castration has crossed my mind so you aren't shocking me 

I'm just really sad at this point and trying to figure out how to proceed. I appreciate your thoughts!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

wiigirl said:


> Definitely having some sort of emotional affair....draw a line in the sand and see what happens..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^ This.

And get yourself tested for STD's.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you want to keep him - and I'm not sure I would advise it as he sounds mildly mentally abusive - you will have to get proof, then confront him and tell him to quit. If he refuses or you catch him again, you will have to expose his cheating to his family and close friends and to her parents/siblings to try to stop the affair.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

The fact is, he has continually chosen drinking with the group over you. Again and again and again, he puts his own needs above yours. Then, add in all of the contact with this woman, and you've got a big problem.

No decent husband acts like this. You've asked him numerous times to be home at a certain hour and he just ignores you. Then you rightly accuse him of doing something inappropriate behind your back (because...he HAS) and he flips it back on you. 

The reason he does all this is because you allow it. You get mad at him (as you should) but then nothing else comes of it. You keep allowing him to do the same things over and over with no consequence. Why would he stop? He's already shown you the type of man he is. The type who chooses his needs over his spouse's needs.

You have few options. A line in the sand needs to be drawn. You need to choose where the line goes. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't stop going out with these people so regularly. Maybe you tell him you're leaving if he won't cut contact with this woman completely. Maybe you tell him you're leaving unless he goes to counseling. I don't know which one you need to choose, but whichever you do choose, the consequence for not doing what you need him to do is that he packs his stuff and leaves. Or...when he's out drinking you pack it for him and have it loaded on to a U-haul in the driveway.

Do you have something to worry about here? Absolutely. His behavior with this woman is most definitely in EA territory and probably in PA territory. He smelled like patchouli because she was all over him. That's a fact. He's also hiding his work phone from you. Red flag numero uno! Textbook cheating behavior along with the reflecting accusations back on you.

Good luck. Keep posting and asking for advice here. It's a great support for people going through tough times.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

C123 said:


> The fact is, he has continually chosen drinking with the group over you. Again and again and again, he puts his own needs above yours. Then, add in all of the contact with this woman, and you've got a big problem.
> 
> No decent husband acts like this. You've asked him numerous times to be home at a certain hour and he just ignores you. Then you rightly accuse him of doing something inappropriate behind your back (because...he HAS) and he flips it back on you.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Thank you for your advice. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I've allowed him to get away with this kind of behavior for far too long. I'm not sure why I've been acting so differently when it comes to my husband. I'm SO strong in almost every other area of my life. I know that I deserve better than this and doing nothing about his behavior in the past was a huge mistake. I'm very grateful for all the honest, helpful advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Marriage is unlike anything else in your life. We're groomed from an early age that marriage is "sacred" and that one must do everything one can to make a marriage work. The truth is, times and people have changed. Marriage is not easy. Even great marriages require a ton of hard and cooperative work. That is typically why they are great marriages. Each spouse works hard to make sure the other spouse is getting what they want and need while also making sure they are getting what they want and need. Marriages that don't work are where one spouse takes and takes and takes and the other spouse gives and gives and gives until the taker resents the giver for not having a spine and the giver resents the taker for being so selfish.

You need to stop giving. You should gather all of the resolve you can muster and when you're ready, you just.stop.giving. He's taken enough. He either starts giving back...and I mean REALLY giving back or you're out of there. Forget what your grandmother said about a wife pleases her husband because that's her job. That's not the world we live in anymore.

You need to do what's best for you. You deserve a happy, stable life with a partner who gives as much as he gets. There is no reason to stay in this highly dysfunctional marriage. I know it is not going to be easy, but don't you believe you deserve better?!?

We all believe you deserve better.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

C123 I truly understand what you are saying. I think part of my continued giving comes from being extremely loyal. I was adopted as a baby by wonderful parents and had the best childhood possible. I have a very hard time with what I might see as abandoning people. I think this is partly the reason that I've tried so hard even when he isn't. This is a much needed reality check because I don't want to continue in a relationship where I give everything. Your kind words and brutal honesty are exactly what I need to hear.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Quote:
I can't criticise her in any way no matter how I sugar coat it 

Like I said, you have ten seconds before the kid is in charge. It therefore does not matter -- at all -- that you have caught her in a calm, apparently receptive mood. *And she is so super-sensitive to perceived infractions, she may even take offense at the sugar coating itself (thinking you are talking down to her).* The statements and actions that will trigger a release of her anger consist of anything that she interprets as posing a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment (from intimacy). Because you never know what trivial thing will trigger one fear or the other, you are always walking on eggshells. 

Quote:
She seems to see things as right or wrong with no ability to give leeway or explain away a mistake. 

That is called "black-white thinking" (aka, "all-or-nothing thinking"). It will show up as her claiming you "never" or "always" do such and such. It also is evident in the way she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." 

Wow, I have wondered if my husband has Bordeline Personality Disorder. Some of these words could have been written by me.

All day yesterday, he called me and was very caring on the phone. I was pleasant, but did not respond in my usual manner. When he got home, it was like being with a sulking child.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

C123 said:


> Marriage is unlike anything else in your life. We're groomed from an early age that marriage is "sacred" and that one must do everything one can to make a marriage work. The truth is, times and people have changed. Marriage is not easy. Even great marriages require a ton of hard and cooperative work. That is typically why they are great marriages. Each spouse works hard to make sure the other spouse is getting what they want and need while also making sure they are getting what they want and need. Marriages that don't work are where one spouse takes and takes and takes and the other spouse gives and gives and gives until the taker resents the giver for not having a spine and the giver resents the taker for being so selfish.
> 
> You need to stop giving. You should gather all of the resolve you can muster and when you're ready, you just.stop.giving. He's taken enough. He either starts giving back...and I mean REALLY giving back or you're out of there. Forget what your grandmother said about a wife pleases her husband because that's her job. That's not the world we live in anymore.
> 
> ...


I agree with all this.
It's not just the giving either, it's avoidance of conflicts. Conflicts are going to happen naturally in a marriage, when two people keep their own seats(centers) as they should as individuals, there is going to be tension. The tension is normal, like a rubber band it pulls together and pulls apart as the weights of your desires and your need to give and take fluctuates. If you don't exercise this tension, the elastic will dry out and when it's pulled too far in the opposite direction, it will snap. If you're not used to conflict, it's really difficult to recover from this situation...if there's been a habit of not advocating strongly for your needs, the other party can become lazy, or even become afraid, lost and insecure, because he/she isn't feeling that pull back in your direction that he should...so he/she has become untethered, and created tension both between you and him (your H) and him and her (the OW). People need to feel something of others in their life...he wasn't feeling the natural tension of a relationship, there was a void, and he filled it. I do think you should engage in some a**-kicking, but if you want him to hang around in your marriage, put on a slipper first. But do a**-kick. And don't overextend yourself to please him, be firm, be reasonable, look out for yourself. Go ahead and love him if you want, decide how much of a fool you're willing to be, a bit of fool is not a weakness, it's a demonstration of a love you can be proud of, to a point. Being a bit of a fool is an art form. Sometimes it's necessary. Like when you went and introduced yourself to that woman. I find that admirable. You are willing to put yourself on the spot to protect your marriage to someone you feel close to. You sent a clear signal that he is worth going out on a limb for. No matter what happens, you stood up for something you want, with someone you have a legitimate claim to. That's not being a fool, that's claiming what's yours, and in public too. It was necessary. Just do what you think is necessary, and you will be okay. Don't worry about being a fool, don't second guess yourself, don't be over-reactive, but don't under-react either. It's your marriage, you can certainly do what it takes to keep it if that's your choice. It takes time to influence another person, but if your heart is in it, you can persist and know you did your best. If it's ever time to quit, you'll know that too. But don't worry about that right now. Just do what you find reasonable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> He sulked.


That's because he played his 'role' and you didn't fall in line behind him (i.e. forgive him) like you are supposed to.

Are you familiar with the cycles of the abuser? Not the cycles of abuse, which you can google, but the cycles an abuser goes through to maintain control of his partner?

It will go something like this (assuming the partner has stopped participating, as you now have), in no particular order: 
anger
sulking
threatening
ignoring
abandoning
buying you stuff
romance
silliness
talking about YOUR dreams (how he will help you fulfill them)
feeling sorry for himself
belittling you
guilting you
back to anger

It could be any combination of 'acts' and he will continue to cycle through them, often in split second swiftness, until he figures out which one 'works' on you.

Does any of that ring a bell?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OMG, I have never seen that cycle of the abuser.
It's my ex, perfectly. I left him at the back to anger one day.
And I saved a letter he wrote (uncharacteristic) that was all full of the dream stuff...I look at it not to second guess myself, but to remind myself that it was just evidence of a phase that he seemed to pass through every so often but never amounted to anything. As for guilt, if I so much as smiled at someone...and it got so bad that he didn't even have to be there for the guilt to take ahold. That's when I knew I was in trouble.

That's very good information, Turnera.
Where did you get it from?

I once had a boss who was a bit like that. Actually, more than one. It's a good pattern to memorize or to put up on one's fridge or in the back of one's appt book (where I keep the laws of consent...and symptoms of abuse...)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I made it up. 

After reading every book on abuse and helping abuse victims on forums like this, and figuring out the pattern. I'm into psychology, so it's easy for me to see the psychological aspect of how these things work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I remember my IC making me write out a list of 'laws' once - laws I had the right to give myself. I have the right to not be belittled. I have the right to not stay when one is yelling at me. Stuff like that. I wasn't raised to believe I had those rights, so she tried to teach me I did. Said to tape it to my mirror and read it every day.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Turnera thank you for the information about the cycle of the abuser. I googled it and wow, it looked pretty familiar.

Homemaker Numero Uno I relate to the guilt thing. I've been accused of everything. Thank you for the other comments about the avoidance of conflicts. It is true that we seem to cycle through the stages of abuse. Many times I have found myself not discussing an issue with him because I knew that he would react with rage. He has never been physically abusive, but I am amazed by how enraged he can become in such a short amount of time. When we are with other people, he is the most social, best guy ever. The only other people who've seen any part of this other side of him are my two stepdaughters. They've had very small glimpses of this other person that he can become. 

I am intrigued by the idea of the "laws" of consent and will be researching this concept.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

travellover said:


> Turnera thank you for the information about the cycle of the abuser. I googled it and wow, it looked pretty familiar.
> 
> Homemaker Numero Uno I relate to the guilt thing. I've been accused of everything. Thank you for the other comments about the avoidance of conflicts. It is true that we seem to cycle through the stages of abuse. Many times I have found myself not discussing an issue with him because I knew that he would react with rage. He has never been physically abusive, but I am amazed by how enraged he can become in such a short amount of time. When we are with other people, he is the most social, best guy ever. The only other people who've seen any part of this other side of him are my two stepdaughters. They've had very small glimpses of this other person that he can become.
> 
> I am intrigued by the idea of the "laws" of consent and will be researching this concept.


My ex did that too. People he knew I respected he acted very nice around, the main effect was that when I asked them for advice they could only tell me how he related to them, and how he seemed normal and they were sorry I had problems but they had no advice... of course this is what an abuser does.

Anyone new that came into my life like woman friends he would put up a dividing wall right away by asking if I thought they would like a threesome, and my son's friends he would accuse me of wanting sex with them. So I didn't feel like I could get close to any of these people because of how he framed things. 

Abusers are very good at controlling your environment. Even yoga he would go with me and act all interested and then make sexual gestures at me or say things about me sexually or tell me another student was looking at me, etc. to make me feel uncomfortable about going...he came to my dance lessons and said things about that too and tried to ruin it for me. Funny thing is he did remark about my Argentine Tango dance instructor and how sexy I looked dancing with him, and instead of shying away from it, I just went into the practice room and danced more with the instructor. lol. It never crossed my mind he was trying to spoil it for me, I took it as doing something that pleased him. :rofl: In any case, it was better than dancing with my ex, he would deliberately push my arm back and it hurt...my instructor used me to demo that no-no position a few weeks ago and I knee-jerk reacted to it, told him to knock it off and to never do that again, it reminded me of my ex. 

In the end, my ex also became enraged...but up to that point he had managed to always stay in control, as provoking me while maintaining his cool allowed him to tell me I was crazy and irrational. But the final day, it was his logic that fell apart and didn't hold up, and after that wasn't there for him the rage came out. It was really eye-opening...it was the first time in 5 years I had seen that, only seen a shadow of it ice climbing one day when I got sick (had eaten an apple, unknown to me I was allergic to them and got dizzy and confused and felt really tired and nauseous all of a sudden) and could not climb and he got pissed off and made a lot of noise and swearing and then free-climbed refusing a belay, up ice he probably shouldn't have been on. I sat and watched and thought if he falls I will have to help him, but he won't fall, he is too intent on trying to make me think about being responsible for his death or dismemberment, and to fall would remove the potential threat, which is how he maintains control over me. Yep, I sat there and realized how it all worked for him. So then I disengaged from the situation and thought if being abusive and in control like that was so important to him as to risk his life, let him go on with that. It's not something I would do, but I understood that was his behavioral pattern, riding motorcycles without helmets, signing up for deployments in the military, shoveling roofs in winter without a safety, chainsawing trees by himself with no cell phone reception or backup in place, driving with the cruise control on and tailgating others on the highway, changing lanes without signally in heavy traffic, etc. He would risk his life and that of others to assert control. And yes, it is abusive, because it raises the victim's stress level, and that's what's intended, to make them a bystander to someone's injury, where they could not say they acted in accordance with their knowledge to prevent the situation. The key to it is not actually doing any damage, so that the imagined scenario can be played out over and over and over again, in many different forms. There is the guilt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

travellover said:


> Turnera thank you for the information about the cycle of the abuser. I googled it and wow, it looked pretty familiar.
> 
> Homemaker Numero Uno I relate to the guilt thing. I've been accused of everything. Thank you for the other comments about the avoidance of conflicts. It is true that we seem to cycle through the stages of abuse. Many times I have found myself not discussing an issue with him because I knew that he would react with rage. He has never been physically abusive, but I am amazed by how enraged he can become in such a short amount of time. When we are with other people, he is the most social, best guy ever. The only other people who've seen any part of this other side of him are my two stepdaughters. They've had very small glimpses of this other person that he can become.
> 
> I am intrigued by the idea of the "laws" of consent and will be researching this concept.


travellover, you need to do one thing right now, then. Get this book and read it THIS WEEK: Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, by Bancroft.

It will change your life. It is the bible of people in your situation.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Homemaker Numero Uno

Some of what you're saying could have been written by me. While he would encourage me to work out, when I found something I really enjoyed, he said that I spent all my time there and that it was more important than him which is ridiculous. I don't have many close female friends because he made it almost impossible for me to spend time with them. When I used to travel occasionally for work, co-workers used to comment about how much he called me. If I didn't "check-in" on time, I must be hiding something. He's always been very exacting with me, my time, etc., but if you've read the original post, he is out with people for hours longer than he said he would be. He also wanted me to call him when I left work, but I stopped doing that. He will come home unannounced or come back to the house after he's left because I think he's trying to "catch" me doing something. I'm not sure what, but that's how it feels. Your story about the ice-climbing made me sad that he could be so selfish. How ironic that you were sick and not only did he not care, it was all about him. I'm positive if my marriage ends, he will make if difficult, if not impossible for me to maintain a relationship with his daughters. This would break my heart. He would consider it a betrayal for them to have contact with me and I would never want to come between a father and his children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I sat and watched and thought if he falls I will have to help him, but he won't fall, he is too intent on trying to make me think about being responsible for his death or dismemberment, and to fall would remove the potential threat, which is how he maintains control over me. Yep, I sat there and realized how it all worked for him. So then I disengaged from the situation and thought if being abusive and in control like that was so important to him as to risk his life, let him go on with that. It's not something I would do, but I understood that was his behavioral pattern, riding motorcycles without helmets, signing up for deployments in the military, shoveling roofs in winter without a safety, chainsawing trees by himself with no cell phone reception or backup in place, driving with the cruise control on and tailgating others on the highway, changing lanes without signally in heavy traffic, etc. He would risk his life and that of others to assert control. And yes, it is abusive, because it raises the victim's stress level, and that's what's intended, to make them a bystander to someone's injury, where they could not say they acted in accordance with their knowledge to prevent the situation. The key to it is not actually doing any damage, so that the imagined scenario can be played out over and over and over again, in many different forms. There is the guilt.


My DH isn't really abusive, but he was controlling. I remember one time I dared go out of town to help my dad on a house he was building, against my husband's wishes. Well, guess what HE decided to do while I was gone? Move a wall in our garage. By himself. So that the beam fell on him. 

He did it on purpose. Put himself in harm's way so that I would feel guilty for leaving him alone. And it worked, for another 20 years. I never left him alone again. Any time I tried to say I wanted to go see a friend or my mom, he'd whip out the "Ok sure, you just go gallivanting around all over town having fun while I'm stuck at home doing all the work, risking my life, while you're out having fun because that's how selfish you are." Sick.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

travellover said:


> While he would encourage me to work out, when I found something I really enjoyed, he said that I spent all my time there and that it was more important than him which is ridiculous. I don't have many close female friends because he made it almost impossible for me to spend time with them.


The #1 tool in an abuser's toolbelt is that he alienates you from your family and friends, so that you lose all your support - support that he knows would convince you to leave him.

12 Traits of an Abuser


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks for the info Turnera. I will look for it today or tomorrow. My problem will be where I can keep it without him seeing it. I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. It's helpful to receive feedback from people who don't know us.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you know what a WONDERFUL FIRST STEP for you would be?

It would be for you to BUY THE BOOK, and KEEP it in PLAIN SIGHT.

Scary? Sure.

But VERY empowering for you, to dig yourself out of the hole you're now in. And you are going to have to empower yourself sooner or later to change this.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Turnera I am sorry that you had to go through what you went through. I am grateful that you have managed to extricate yourself from that sitation and are willing to provide support to others who will benefit from what you have learned


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Turnera, I'll think about doing that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If nothing else, just keep it in your car or something. If he finds it he finds it. But you'll keep your dignity by not hiding it.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Turnera wow, you really gave me something to think about. I picked up the book and am on page 72. Many passages sound familiar, but this one hits particularly close to home: For many abusers, possessiveness takes the form of sexual jealousy. This style of man monitors his partner's associations carefully, expects her to account for her whereabouts at all times, and periodically rips into her with jealous accusations... There were times when I was with my stepdaughters, HIS DAUGHTERS that he act this way. It was to the point that they would ask, what's wrong with dad. Thank you so much for suggesting this book.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're welcome. I'm glad it's helping. It really is an amazing book. 

The two biggest things I got out of it are these:
Abusers FEEL strongly. So strongly that they often equate it with love. But it's not love; it's an intense desire to own you.

Which leads to:
Abusers don't see you as a real human; you are a property, something to be owned, controlled, groomed, set out for view. Therefore, it's impossible for them to understand when you are in pain; you're an object; objects don't feel.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Ok, so after absorbing the feedback and some discussion with a friend, I think my next step is to emotionally detach myself. I've been told that if I don't emotionally detach, I'm setting myself up for failure. I've read a little online about how to emotionally detach. Anyone care to share things that helped them detach or what they found particularly difficult about this process?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Best thing I know is to start looking at them as if you were someone else. Watch his actions and words as if you were, say, your best friend, watching him treat your best friend the way he does. Would you feel good about him? Respect him? Admire him? Not likely. Seeing him the way other people would see him (assuming they were to see how he really treats you, not the way he treats you in public) helps a lot.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Also a pros and cons list helps.

The best thing I ever did was to keep a list. Every snide remark. Every roll of the eyes. Every subtle belittling. Every time he got you to give up seeing a friend or doing something you wanted, just to keep him from getting upset. Stuff like that. Once you start keeping a list, it really adds up. And you can't deny it any more.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Travellover,

Look back at all of our posts here. My hope is that you can clearly see what a terrible position you're in. This man has taken, taken, taken and has not given anything in return. That's not a marriage. You're even nervous about keeping a self help book in the house. That's awful!

You sound like such a decent person. I really hope you can get away from this man and find someone who gives you what you need.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

C123 and Turnera I can't tell you how much you've both helped me. Since I've never posted on any site before, I didn't know what to expect. Although it sounds pretty ridiculous now, while I knew I wasn't happy, I didn't look at it the way that someone who is entirely removed from the situation can see it. The unwavering support and brutal honesty have spelled out for me in no uncertain terms what I've known all along: I really do need to make a change. I am committed to beginning to emotionally detach. I don't want to do something half-way. I will be on this forum asking for and giving advice for as long as it takes. My situation is slightly more complicated by the fact that I was laid off from my job permanently the week after I met the OW. I'm lucky because I have somewhere that I can go even if I don't have a job, but I would feel much better about having that security. I'm a mid-level manager and have a solid career background, so I hope that it won't take me too long to find a job. I'm concentrating on taking care of myself physically and emotionally. The kind words from strangers certainly give me strength. Thank you.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

This website has helped a lot of people gain perspective (good or bad) on their marriage. That includes me. I'm grateful for all of the people on this website and their advice and I'm glad you found it. Keep posting and let us know how you're doing.


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