# When do you give up?



## guy (May 11, 2010)

When do you give up hoping your wife will have sex or even be interested in having sex with you? We've been together for about 18 years and she has had ups and downs in terms of interest, but in the end, turns me down more than agrees. And by agree, that's pretty much what if feels like. She doesn't really have an 'in the mood' reaction, it's more of a 'sure, I'll give up sleep for you to do something'. 

I've been pretty HD our whole marriage, and generally take care of things myself as often, or more often than having sex with her. Out of curiousity, I even started a log last year to track how many times we did it together, versus me alone.

We have sex, but only when she wants to. Like tonight, it was early, ~10sh, kids long since in bed, I drop some hints, and she just declares, "nope, I'm going to bed". I guess it kind of urks me that she will just declare yes or no. 

On top of this, she just doesn't seem to enjoy sex, or any variation (oral). One by one, 'options' are crossed off. She doesn't like this, doesn't like that... We are down to about 2 or 3 different activities/positions. For example, A few days ago, I indicated that I wanted to perform oral on her.... Well 12 hours and a dozen convenient interruptions later, she lets me start. Now, I think I'm pretty good, but after about 10 minutes, she wasn't getting anything out of it. We finished by hand. Talking to her tonight, she said she just doesn't get anything out of it. Which is a total disappointment for me because I DO like it.

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling, but I just can't help think, when is enough, enough? I read some of the posts here about happy marriages or HD women (yes, I know there are a lot of not so happy postings), and it brings tears to my eyes. I often think about divorce, or R&R- regret and resentment. Which grows every time she turns me down. 

Thoughts?????


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

Have you ever asked what she DOES like...what turns her on...in a way that she feels safe telling you her sexual fantasies? Or does jshe ust plain NOT like sex in any fashion?


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

guy said:


> When do you give up hoping your wife will have sex or even be interested in having sex with you?
> 
> ....
> 
> Thoughts?????


Honestly? You might not like my honest thoughts, and they may be inaccurate, but what first came to mind is this: 

She's comfortable and believes she is in charge of the p***y and has probably lost a lot of respect and concern for you and your needs over time. Talk, Discuss, Counsel, and 'Work on it' all you want with her and it still won't change. Make her genuinely fear that you'll leave her, and she won't have someone to pay her way and keep her from being alone for the rest of her life and she'll warm up to you even if she doesn't understand why. And maybe that can fix things, but the odds are tipped against long term change. Reading MMSL and NMMNG (Married Man Sex Life and No More Mister Nice Guy) and adopting changes based on what you learn may be very helpful in getting what you wish. Divorcing her AND adopting said changes? You'll have more sex each year for the next 20 than you've had in your entire marriage, but you may still regret the various costs of going that path.

All that in one bundled ball of thought. There you go. Feel Free to call me a cynic.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Has it ever been good?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Anubis said:


> Honestly? You might not like my honest thoughts, and they may be inaccurate, but what first came to mind is this:
> 
> She's comfortable and believes she is in charge of the p***y and has probably lost a lot of respect and concern for you and your needs over time. Talk, Discuss, Counsel, and 'Work on it' all you want with her and it still won't change. Make her genuinely fear that you'll leave her, and she won't have someone to pay her way and keep her from being alone for the rest of her life and she'll warm up to you even if she doesn't understand why. And maybe that can fix things, but the odds are tipped against long term change. Reading MMSL and NMMNG (Married Man Sex Life and No More Mister Nice Guy) and adopting changes based on what you learn may be very helpful in getting what you wish. Divorcing her AND adopting said changes? You'll have more sex each year for the next 20 than you've had in your entire marriage, but you may still regret the various costs of going that path.
> 
> All that in one bundled ball of thought. There you go. Feel Free to call me a cynic.


Agree, change the entire dynamic. Might as well make yourself happy. I'm a bit past where you are, I went full on cold hearted ***hole several months ago. I don't concern myself with her feelings too much and I show zero affection and I keep conversations short and to the point. I feel better about myself because I'm not trying to make her feel good while hoping for intimacy.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

guy said:


> When do you give up hoping your wife will have sex or even be interested in having sex with you? We've been together for about 18 years


If she hasn't changed after 18 years, what makes you think she will be any different for the next 18?

I would have given up long before 18 years. 3 years, tops, I think. Sex is just too important, and you don't stay young forever.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

It can change after 18 years and I am embarrassed to say I tolerated her ambivalence to me for longer than that. Anubis has this. You have to inject tension into the relationship and be just a few inches outside of her reach. Stay busy, be out of the house, develop friends she does know and keep a bit of mystery, live with vitality, be happy and live true to yourself. The pursuit dynamic has to change so you are not asking for intimacy crumbs as she will grant them but she wants to show her love to keep you.

Keep reading, the answers are here.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Cre8ify said:


> It can change after 18 years and I am embarrassed to say I tolerated her ambivalence to me for longer than that. Anubis has this. You have to inject tension into the relationship and be just a few inches outside of her reach. Stay busy, be out of the house, develop friends she does know and keep a bit of mystery, live with vitality, be happy and live true to yourself. The pursuit dynamic has to change so you are not asking for intimacy crumbs as she will grant them but she wants to show her love to keep you.
> 
> Keep reading, the answers are here.


How did your wife respond?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Guy,

Good luck with your plight.

While my own situation improved somewhat a number of months ago, I have no found myself losing interest overall. Isn't that sad?

After a heart to heart in February, our frequency went up to about twice a week and I thought I was on top of the world. Now that it's almost the end of April, we've had sex twice so far. 

Based on our previous history, I guess I knew that this would happen. Perhaps it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, I don't know.

Funny thing is that I am no longer any where near as upset or resentful as I used to be. Call it inner peace, call it I just don't give a sh!t anymore, call it what you want.

I am now accepting that i have (for the most part) a good roommate who makes wonderful meals, takes care of the kids, does my laundry and keeps the house in one piece. Guess I may as well move back in with my mother!

I have placed a greater emphasis on getting the rest I need instead of trying to intiate. I guess she's happy. I just don't care


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Hey Guy,We could of married the same women,No I don't really feel there is a cure.In my case I married a female that could care less about less.I have done everything under the sun and not one thing ever changed.I love the people that say read the book.Even the bible would not change my wife.There is nothing I could give her or take away from her to make her understand the need for sexual connection in a loving relationship.All I ever get from her is duty sex twice a month.When I was young I always remember Females saying don't treat them like a piece of meat.Now thats all my wife wants to be for me???


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

She responded as well as could be expected given that she was never very interested in sex. Her idea of intimacy was "allowing" me to make love to her about every third time I advanced. 

Things have changed. She now initiates some of the time. She has actually made love TO me a handful of times which is new. She would never do what I like if there wasn't anything in it for her but she now seems to understand that "me liking it" is reason enough for her to want to do it. None of this happened until I had one foot out the door and was creating my own life and was completely self sufficient...and more attractive to women. When it was slipping away she "decided" to love me. Go figure.

I still harbor resentment but each step improves things. Her idea was 1X week and I think she knows that can be her idea, but I never agreed to it and that will virtually assure we don't make it. If four days have passed without intimacy she is now the one crawling out of her skin with dread. That's not great either but I am no longer married and celibate. Plus, this is OUR problem so why should I be the only one trying to fix it.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

guy said:


> When do you give up hoping your wife will have sex or even be interested in having sex with you? We've been together for about 18 years and she has had ups and downs in terms of interest, but in the end, turns me down more than agrees. And by agree, that's pretty much what if feels like. She doesn't really have an 'in the mood' reaction, it's more of a 'sure, I'll give up sleep for you to do something'.
> 
> I've been pretty HD our whole marriage, and generally take care of things myself as often, or more often than having sex with her. Out of curiousity, I even started a log last year to track how many times we did it together, versus me alone.
> 
> ...


Ask her... Could it be possible that at times "she doesn't get much out of it", because you like it that way?

And other times "you don't get that much out of it" because she likes it the other way.

Compromise, but it doesn't look good when all the options are crossed out - and she won't do anything that isn't necessarily her favorite.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Cre8ify said:


> She responded as well as could be expected given that she was never very interested in sex. Her idea of intimacy was "allowing" me to make love to her about every third time I advanced.
> 
> Things have changed. She now initiates some of the time. She has actually made love TO me a handful of times which is new. She would never do what I like if there wasn't anything in it for her but she now seems to understand that "me liking it" is reason enough for her to want to do it. None of this happened until I had one foot out the door and was creating my own life and was completely self sufficient...and more attractive to women. When it was slipping away she "decided" to love me. Go figure.
> 
> I still harbor resentment but each step improves things. Her idea was 1X week and I think she knows that can be her idea, but I never agreed to it and that will virtually assure we don't make it. If four days have passed without intimacy she is now the one crawling out of her skin with dread. That's not great either but I am no longer married and celibate. Plus, this is OUR problem so why should I be the only one trying to fix it.


Awesome! Life is too short to be miserable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Toffer,Good to hear from you,Sorry things are the same for you.I have always enjoyed your conversations?Always remember that LD is a universal situlation not a personal one.Don't be a victum of it?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Guy,
> 
> Good luck with your plight.
> 
> ...


Interesting... I have found that inner peace already also... in my case I put a four year window on it,... that will end in November at that point I'll be you....and not give a c**p for eternity.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

> I am now accepting that i have (for the most part) a good roommate who makes wonderful meals, takes care of the kids, does my laundry and keeps the house in one piece.


I am in the same boat, to a lesser extent. My wife doesn't cook, clean very often or do my laundry. She does laundry for her and the kids. She will straighten up the house between the times when the cleaners come over. We eat out almost every evening, or I fix food for myself. I basically pay for a live-in nanny to care for the kids.

I have mostly given up caring. I just live my life as best as I can and find things to do that I enjoy.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

As for as giving up goes? For 3 weeks I gave up totally ,I removed sex from our life together.I never mentioned it or acted like I wanted it.Finally I broke down and blew up.She gave me a quickie and another dose of duty sex.Then of coarse its back to the back of the bus until next time.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> Toffer,Good to hear from you,Sorry things are the same for you.I have always enjoyed your conversations?Always remember that LD is a universal situlation not a personal one.Don't be a victum of it?


Thanks for the pat on the back!

I know some will tell me it's time to sh!t or get off the pot with her but as I've said, except in this one major area, she's the perfect wife.

I guess it's the "old dog, new tricks" catch 22. Too much water under the bridge, too much joint debt for either of us, getting older now (in 50s) and short of moving home with my 80 year old mother, options just aren't there.

I guess my destiny in life is to be a living example to others who come here. I could be your "After" picture if you let the following excuses interupt your sex life:

Statement - "the kids are still awake"
Answer - "Lock the door"

Statement - "Our sex life will get better when the kids are older"
Answer - No, it won't

Statement - "I have to get up for work in the morning
Answer - "Me too!"

Statement - "I show you I love you by cooking, cleaning taking care of the kids and the house, ironing your clothes........."
Answer - Thanks If I wanted that kind of relationship, I'd still be living with my MOM! 

Trust me on this. Don't spend too much money on trying to get a LD to be a little more HD. We did the counseling route for a bit, bought the books and did the worksheets. At best, things went great for 4 to 8 weeks and then slowly drifted back to what they were.

Some will critisize me for allowing the backslide to happen. I can't really refute that. There were times I called her on it and got her/us back in line but after a while, I think I got tired of being the warden

She KNOWS how inportant this was/is to me and chose to let it slid back to where it is now. She chose to again reject advances for whatever reason (right or wrong) and not talk about it (not feeling good, not in the mood, whatever). I was even able to accept the fact that she pretty much wouldn't intiate because that isn't her. I was even able to accept the fact that our love life was pretty much a Friday/Saturday type deal but then she'll make plans once a month or so to do things that don't include me (this weekend she has plans for dinner with some GFs friday night and stopping by another GFs 50th Saturday afternoon after 3 PM (but I'm willing to bet this will go beyond dinner and into the night) and to be honest, after working Mon - Fri beginning at 5:30 Am and not getting home until 7 PM or later, if you don't get me involved in something in realative short order in the evenings I am available, I start to get tired.

She's come home from some of these type activities in the past and has been a liitle upset with me because it's midnight on a saturday night and I'm asleep!

Like i said, I am really amazed at myself that the hurt is so much less and I am truly less resentful (while that may not sound like it because of this rant, it is true). I no longer see myself being short or snappy with her and my passive/aggressive approach that has manifested itself in the past rarely rears it's head anymore. Acceptance.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

What it is is you mind processing the world you live in..... initially you fight like hell.... eventually you fought the fight and things did not change... then you are where I am at the end.

People change when they have to... we'll see there is a point where you do give up. I'm 7 months away from that point.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Perhaps she was on the lower sex drive side to begin with, 18 years now?

Then she had the kids and that may of altered her hormones to the point she doesn't care for sex anymore. Dr to get her hormones checked and meds?

I don't know if this will help but in my situation my wifee is also LD like your wife but we have no kids. My wife sounds very similar to yours actually.

What I did was join TAM, learn a lot from everyone here, read e-books, lots of cuddling, surprise flowers and dinners, chores without being asking, helping without asking her if she needs help, lead our household being more alpha male, you name it and I'm in great shape and strong. All these things didn't change her desire for sex much if at all.

I think if the woman really wants to change, she will but if she doesn't, we're all screwed.

I too am a HD guy and I could have sex every day still. I have relieved myself thousands of times over our 13+ years together because of her LD.

Sometimes when women hit a certain age, it just clicks and they want lots of sex all the time, HD.

I have told me wifee that even after doing all these things, she still isn't in the mood and I've started dis-connecting and no longer will initiate much anymore. She knows no closeness for many weeks or months equals no closeness emotionally either.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Perhaps she was on the lower sex drive side to begin with, 18 years now?
> 
> Then she had the kids and that may of altered her hormones to the point she doesn't care for sex anymore. Dr to get her hormones checked and meds?
> 
> ...


Blood tests men and women!

If your libido is low, your energy down, etc you may have a problem with hormonal balance.

So there may be a reasonable explanation for LD situations at times.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

If it were only that simple in my case........


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> She's come home from some of these type activities in the past and has been a liitle upset with me because it's midnight on a saturday night and I'm asleep!


Why are you waiting around? Go out and have some fun with your own friends. See if you can be out of the house when she gets home.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Geez LongShanks I was pretty proud of my eight pack and obliques but that image in your signature just sucks. If I blow a disc now its on you.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Ya know,I have been coming here for a long time.Towhich I have heard a lot of ideas on how to resolve the no sex issue's in marriage.I remember once writing on the forum that my marriage was perfect except for the sex.Someone said then your marriage is not perfect .You have got a lot of problems in it.I did not understand that then ,But now I do.I have a lot of animosoty and resentment towards my wife.She is broken and I can't fix her.Yes so much of my life is great.Except for bed time.One would think if you came here to these boards every day for 2 yrs. You would gain some sort of knownledge on the subject and know how to fix it.But I have to say in 2 yrs I have not gain a thing on making it any better.Maybe worse.I am really beginning to think it will never change.But I am not willing to give up everything else for it.And at times I feel the LD person has to pay for it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I have been considering the next time i get turned down I will flip to the porn channel on direct tv and rub one out in cront of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Porn has helped me forget about sex with my wife, it never says no


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

A good friend om mine got turned down once again from his wife at night. He jumped up and got some lotion and went to work on his self right in front of her.He only lasted a few minutes and a told her see thats all you had to do. Its that easy.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> A good friend om mine got turned down once again from his wife at night. He jumped up and got some lotion and went to work on his self right in front of her.He only lasted a few minutes and a told her see thats all you had to do. Its that easy.


How did she respond?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

As I recall, She yelled at him and said how gross is that.And that he was a sick man.And a pervert.You know all the usual stuff we all here.I get told that all I have on my mind is sex.I say thats because I never get satisfiy.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> As I recall, She yelled at him and said how gross is that.And that he was a sick man.And a pervert.You know all the usual stuff we all here.I get told that all I have on my mind is sex.I say thats because I never get satisfiy.


But I wonder if she got the message and improved things
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

No not really It was soon after that My good friend came to me and said he had enough.He was not going to live in her world.
Which has always made me wonder why would someone throw a way a good relationship over a few minutes of sex a week.In my case my wife could careless for it.So what I need is 5 mins 3 times a week,Thats only 1 hour a month and 12 hours a year.Is that really to much to ask.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why are you waiting around? Go out and have some fun with your own friends. See if you can be out of the house when she gets home.


Tall,

In most cases I have done that. I have gone out for a couple with friends and even when no one was available to hang out, I went out and kicked around making sure to not be home when she got there

Have already made plans with a friend for Saturday night so even if she does make it home either I will be gone or headed out shortly thereafter

I haven't told her yet and don't plan to until necessary
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## guy (May 11, 2010)

SouthernMiss said:


> Have you ever asked what she DOES like...what turns her on...in a way that she feels safe telling you her sexual fantasies? Or does jshe ust plain NOT like sex in any fashion?


I've tried to get that out of her, but she gives the typical "I don't know" answer. I asked politely, non-threateningly and encouragingly letting her know I want to do that which she enjoys. No luck. Blank slate for preferences, responses, feedback, etc...


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## guy (May 11, 2010)

Anubis said:


> Honestly? You might not like my honest thoughts, and they may be inaccurate, but what first came to mind is this:
> 
> She's comfortable and believes she is in charge of the p***y and has probably lost a lot of respect and concern for you and your needs over time. Talk, Discuss, Counsel, and 'Work on it' all you want with her and it still won't change. Make her genuinely fear that you'll leave her, and she won't have someone to pay her way and keep her from being alone for the rest of her life and she'll warm up to you even if she doesn't understand why. And maybe that can fix things, but the odds are tipped against long term change. Reading MMSL and NMMNG (Married Man Sex Life and No More Mister Nice Guy) and adopting changes based on what you learn may be very helpful in getting what you wish. Divorcing her AND adopting said changes? You'll have more sex each year for the next 20 than you've had in your entire marriage, but you may still regret the various costs of going that path.
> 
> All that in one bundled ball of thought. There you go. Feel Free to call me a cynic.


Thank you for your thoughts. Many of them hit home. I find it interesting that you used the word 'comfortable'. I recall about 5 years ago, during a conversation (over the lack of sex/excitement/enjoyment), I asked her how she feels when I said I wasn't happy. He replied, "comfortable". Hmmmm... I started researching the books you suggest a few days ago. I'll likely buy them shortly, but your right, if she hasn't changed in all this time, and we have talked about, I wonder if she ever will. We have our last 'big' talk about 2-3 months ago, where I told her that my flame of desire is slowly suffocating. She said she didn't want that to happen, and changed- for about a week. I often think about divorce, in fact frequently. But we have 3 kids, and I've really stuck around for them. I remember years ago, just about to build up the courage to leave, and BAM, pregnant. 4 years later, again about to leave, BAM again- pregnant. After our third, I tried to just resign with the fact I've reset the 18 year countdown again. I've convinced myself, that when our youngest turns 18, the next day I'm leaving. But can I want another 14 years???


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## guy (May 11, 2010)

T&T said:


> Has it ever been good?


Not really. I know, my fault. I guess with marriage and commitment, I thought things would get better. Shame on me for being gullible.


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## lonelyat32 (Apr 18, 2013)

guy said:


> When do you give up hoping your wife will have sex or even be interested in having sex with you? We've been together for about 18 years and she has had ups and downs in terms of interest, but in the end, turns me down more than agrees. And by agree, that's pretty much what if feels like. She doesn't really have an 'in the mood' reaction, it's more of a 'sure, I'll give up sleep for you to do something'.
> 
> I've been pretty HD our whole marriage, and generally take care of things myself as often, or more often than having sex with her. Out of curiousity, I even started a log last year to track how many times we did it together, versus me alone.
> 
> ...


Guy - I've been in almost the same situation for about 3 years (out of 8) with my wife. In the end the constant rejection and the pleading, prying to only get a "ok - you've got 10 minutes" eventually broke me down to where I stopped showing her any attention and basically only came to her for sex when I really needed some physical relief, the emotional side of it was practically gone. 

Eventually my lack of showing her affection drove her to the point where she didn't want to be in the marriage anymore so we're in the process of separating. I think she's probably have an EA with another man right now.

Seeing as you've been together for so long you and your W must be doing something right, but if you're that unhappy you should seriously consider moving on. After the misery I've gone through in the last two weeks, and will most likely continue to go through in the months to come, I'm starting to learn little by little, day by day that it's just not worth being unhappy. If you're not being sexually satisfied by your wife and you've tried talking it out to no avail.. Go find someone that will make you happy.

I still love my wife, but our sex life was so damaged, that I can't imagine trying and falling into the same unsatisfying life. So while I'm devastated that she's leaving, in the end I think it will be the best decision for the both of us.

Good luck


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## guy (May 11, 2010)

Theseus said:


> If she hasn't changed after 18 years, what makes you think she will be any different for the next 18?
> 
> I would have given up long before 18 years. 3 years, tops, I think. Sex is just too important, and you don't stay young forever.


I tell myself I made a commitment. For better or worse. I guess I thought that proposition would have been at least 50/50.



Cre8ify said:


> The pursuit dynamic has to change so you are not asking for intimacy crumbs as she will grant them but she wants to show her love to keep you.


.... intimacy crumbs as she will grant them.... WOW, I hits home.


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## guy (May 11, 2010)

Toffer said:


> Guy,
> 
> Good luck with your plight.
> 
> ...


I think we are both in the same shoes. She does all the same (cook, clean, laundry, kids, etc...), but I haven't gotten to the "I don't care" level yet. I guess I'm still trying to hold off on the inevitable. I have gone through periods of not caring- maybe 2 weeks or so, then I can't take it any longer, pretend like nothing was wrong and butter up to her. All the while, I don't think she even cared. In fact, she was probably thankful that I didn't try anything on her. 

I guess the quicker I get to not caring, the better. All day today, I kept picturing myself divorced. Going home to my own apartment, not seeing my kids except on weekends, losing half my paycheck (yep, I checked), not being able to afford the things I want, and pretty much killing all the memories of her in my heart. When I got home (as you can see, kind of late), she was already in bed. Which is what I wanted. I purposely stopped at a grocery store to buy another bottle of whiskey just to burn up time.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I hear you

Funny thing is I thought that I would slowly get to this state of less caring gradually with age (In my 50's now) but it was almost like one day I woke up and realized it just wasn't as important to me anymore. I think part of this is attributable to finding out here at TAM that its not just me. There are others who struggle with this very same issue, both men and women. It helps ease the burden a bit

Will that change? Who knows but I will say in the past when I felt that resentment and anger was keeping me from intiating sex, it would seem that she knew it and then she'd intiate and while in my mind I was determined not to, the flesh was weak. I'd swear that it's almost as if she knew I was at the edge and would throw me a little something to keep me in the game.

Look, I consider myself the poster boy of waiting too long to change this dynamic. If I had an inkling even 12 or 15 years ago that this would be me, I think things would be vastly different.

Basically what I'm saying is that you either need to fix this or consider what the rest of your life will be like 15 years from now. I could get into some of those dark, self doubting thoughts but you've probably had some of them yourself already

Public Service Announcement - Don't Be Like Me!


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Thound said:


> I have been considering the next time i get turned down I will flip to the porn channel on direct tv and rub one out in cront of her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks coffee all over my key board now...:rofl:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

strugglinghusband said:


> Thanks coffee all over my key board now...:rofl:


You know me. Anything to help. I am seriously thinking about it tho. Any reason not to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Nothing wrong with masturbating next to her. I do it sometimes silently sometimes purposely loud.

Not sure about the firing up porn part though.

I think what eventually works is showing her somewhat of an uncomfortable lifestyle... can't let her have it all without anything sexual in return


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Tall,
> 
> In most cases I have done that. I have gone out for a couple with friends and even when no one was available to hang out, I went out and kicked around making sure to not be home when she got there
> 
> ...


Good for you.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Nothing wrong with masturbating next to her. I do it sometimes silently sometimes purposely loud.
> 
> Not sure about the firing up porn part though.
> 
> I think what eventually works is showing her somewhat of an uncomfortable lifestyle... can't let her have it all without anything sexual in return


What do you mean by an uncomfortable lifestyle?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saluki (Apr 6, 2013)

We've been married as long as Guy and are in the same boat as he and several others here.

Key components that keep me in our home are my commitment to my wife and, especially, the kids. She sacrificed for me while I got my advanced degrees and slaved on the tenure track. I owe her. Moreover, I may be the last man alive who thinks this way, but I actually meant my wedding vows.

More importantly, the research on divorce shows the effects on children are negative except *only* in extreme circumstances (involving abuse and such). In addition, I value living with my kids more than the uncertain prospect of sex with other people.

Part of the problem I face is that my wife knows the high value I place on commitment, honor, and parenthood. I run my MAP and have made myself attractive to the opposite sex--an attractive woman approached me at a function right in front of my wife last week. But the wife didn't seem to notice. I worry that in the back of her mind she probably knows she can ignore flirtations and trickle-sex me all she wants because actual 'dread' is off the table.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Saluki,

You're probably right. There seems to be no downside for your wife to continue ignoring your needs and desires. I truly hope that since she's not meeting your needs you are also holding back on hers (you know, little things like handholding, cuddling etc)


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why are you waiting around? Go out and have some fun with your own friends. See if you can be out of the house when she gets home.


Tall, just sent her a text telling her not to worry about dinner for me tonight. Just said I had "plans"

Only thing she said was "ok, have fun"

Shheesh


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Saluki said:


> We've been married as long as Guy and are in the same boat as he and several others here.
> 
> Key components that keep me in our home are my commitment to my wife and, especially, the kids. She sacrificed for me while I got my advanced degrees and slaved on the tenure track. I owe her. Moreover, I may be the last man alive who thinks this way, but I actually meant my wedding vows.
> 
> ...


Keep raising your MAP. Good job.


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## RickyC (Apr 26, 2013)

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling, but I just can't help think, when is enough, enough?

This post could have been mine. My 19th anniversery was earlier this month. Sex has never been the strong point of the marriage, however, the last 4-5 years it has been 3-4 times a year. Her lack of interest, desire, etc., fuels my anxiety and resentment to the point now where I have told her something has to change or there will be changes. Even when we are alone with no kids around, she finds other things to do or sleeps, and unless I really persuade her to help me (although I dont need any help), finish it off, she wont. I'm done. Women and men have to realize that the whole lack of sexual contact causes a lot of other problems -- lack of trust for one. If you are not willing to wholely submit your body, how could I ever trust that person with the secrets of my heart -- what I think, who I am.
It's went on for so long, we are more like roommates that husband and wife. I am almost 50. I am not spending the rest of my life in this current situation and growing "old" together. Its like we got to a certain age we are too old to have fun??? I have the mind of a 20 year old and sex drive to go with it. I refuse sit back and grow old. I dont know if there is a heaven or not, but if not, this is it.

I have worked my as* off my whole life and went without a lot of things (material and personal) and things have got to change. If she doesnt show a real interest in changing anything over the next 3-5 months.... it's over.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Toffer said:


> I truly hope that since she's not meeting your needs you are also holding back on hers (you know, little things like handholding, cuddling etc)


Why? (Seriously.)

I'm sure I'm not meeting her needs, but I'm not sure it's been a conscious choice on my part. I tell myself i have lost the will and energy, simply because she has chosen to let me suffer, when all I needed was 30 minutes of loving attention per week. (Feels like a cop out, but it does take its toll.)

But in pretty sure her needs not being met too has driven us farther apart, perhaps irreparably so.

Not that I think anyone could have met her needs.


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## greeneyedlily (Nov 10, 2012)

Well guys... Not all women are like this!! I would love to have a man want me everyday!! I have a huge sex drive and it's been far too long!! Look to greener pastures! Lifes too short!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Why? (Seriously.)
> 
> I'm sure I'm not meeting her needs, but I'm not sure it's been a conscious choice on my part. I tell myself i have lost the will and energy, simply because she has chosen to let me suffer, when all I needed was 30 minutes of loving attention per week. (Feels like a cop out, but it does take its toll.)
> 
> ...


Sounds like a bit of a standoff

What I meant by the earlier piece is that simply if she isn't meeting your needs don't meet hers

The only problem here is that it sems that each of you have lost track of who stopped meeting each others needs first!

Have you talked to her about parting ways so you can both be happy?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Saluki said:


> We've been married as long as Guy and are in the same boat as he and several others here.
> 
> Key components that keep me in our home are my commitment to my wife and, especially, the kids. She sacrificed for me while I got my advanced degrees and slaved on the tenure track. I owe her. Moreover, I may be the last man alive who thinks this way, but I actually meant my wedding vows.
> 
> ...


Yes and no. It is not so B&W. In my case yes divorce has been difficult for the kids but ex and I have done an excellent job of it, we co parent, have happy kids that are excelling in school, doing well at sports, social lives blah blah blah.

Sure it is a hard path but it can be done in an amicable way and with the kids best interests at heart.

But look at the flip side, what sort of an example are kids getting from a loveless, passionless marriage? They are being modeled a very poor example of what life should be about. I would think the odds that they will go on to lead a similarly dull, passionless marriage are very high.

In my own situation my ex came from one of those families, his parents stayed in a loveless marriage till death. this was his example, he is totally screwed up from it.

We were together for many years, I tried and tried and tried. I sacrificed myself for him and the kids, to keep our family together. I completely turned off my sex drive because the rejection was just too painful. But this was never going to work, the resentment was palpable and the overall dynamic was not good for any of us, especially the children.

I divorced him, not because I wanted to find sex elsewhere but because I got sick of waking up with that black cloud over my head everyday. I realised that we were setting a very poor example for the kids. I realised that we were in fact living the life his parents have modeled for him. It was unhealthy and unhappy for all of us.
I adore sex, I have a very healthy drive. But that was not the problem, the real pain came from him saying that he loved me, yet his inaction showed me that he really did not care about my needs. 

*When do you give up?* When you wake up one day and it hits you that ALL of you deserve more out of life, you, your spouse and your kids. When you get to the point where you understand that staying together for the kids is not in their best interests and that you are setting them up for disaster in their future relationships.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I agree with Holland. My parents have been married for decades. I know they "love" each other, but I know it's sexless. I am pretty sure my dad has found others to take care of his needs. They were separated when I was young and while it was rather traumatic at the time and I will never forget the night my dad moved out, I also see what "reconciliation" has led to so many years later. 

I always swore to myself that I would never let that happen to me, and yet, here I am. Married over a decade, working full time in a job that pays very well, but was not my "dream" because it supported us while he went to school. Now he has no desire for me, is not interested in trying new things, has ruled out nearly everything outside of missionary style, and in fact, has told me he doesn't even like kissing. I do all the housework, finances...almost everything. At least some of you men have wives who cook and clean and do laundry. But I know I'm not ready to issue the ultimatum yet, so I stay, and read, and try to to figure out how to fix someone who doesn't seem to want to be fixed. At least we don't have kids, and at this rate, we never will as my clock is starting to reach the end. It's been 6 weeks since our last failed attempt at intimacy. My heart is broken, but I still can't let go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Toffer said:


> Sounds like a bit of a standoff
> 
> What I meant by the earlier piece is that simply if she isn't meeting your needs don't meet hers
> 
> ...


Thanks for the follow up. I'll move this thread of thought to my own thread in the next few days, but, yes, we've talked about parting ways. Each time, it seems we are ratcheting closer to actually doing it. I'm feeling for the first time the necessity to be happy, with or without her. Staying for the kids is not a way to provide the kids a sane environment.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Holland said:


> Yes and no. It is not so B&W. In my case yes divorce has been difficult for the kids but ex and I have done an excellent job of it, we co parent, have happy kids that are excelling in school, doing well at sports, social lives blah blah blah.
> 
> Sure it is a hard path but it can be done in an amicable way and with the kids best interests at heart.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to write that. That's sort of where my thoughts are settling on, and it's satisfying to hear someone identify "the real pain" that i have been feeling too. It's encouraging you are able to make it work with your kids. Wishing you all the best.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ginger-snap said:


> My heart is broken, but I still can't let go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sorry.

I feel similarly at times. And I ask myself, maybe she just doesn't know my despair. What if, say, she stumbled onto my account here and read my posts -- would she then "get it"? And would she then care?

Lately, I'm leaning towards "Maybe she'd get it, but I don't think she'd care."

Which, for me, conjecture or not, seems like I am getting close to walking off on my own.


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