# Wife is always suspicious



## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

My wife is chronically suspicious. She will at times admit it's not my problem - it is due to her history and insecurities. She is in individual therapy as well as our MC.
I am glad she is talking to someone, and I should be patient, but it drives me nuts. I am very honest and straight-forward, I hide nothing. It's not even about women all the time, she just suspect ulterior motives any time there is a change.

Example: She knows I usually avoid gatherings or parties, but recently two other divisions of our company (we work together too) moved to our floor and they had an Open House - so I went to stop by for 15 minutes and say hi. I have recently become management and it's part of my job to make connections and be friendly.

She got weird on me and became quite annoying. "When you came back you made a face at our boss - what did that mean???" etc...I always make faces with my boss. He is British and we are always joking with each other often without words. But this time there was some hidden meaning. I said it was nothing unusual but she didn't accept that...

With women it was much worse but has gotten a bit better since she started with counselling.

I want to be and _deserve_ to be trusted...
How do you handle constant unreasonable suspicion?
If I just ignore her I put distance between us and I don't want that...


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Give the counselling time... she has taken many years to get to the stage she is at now...change is never rapid and if it is it's often fleeting change. 

Will you be able see a counselor at any stage?
He/she may be able to give you strategies/tools to cope. Phrases to use. Physical actions you can take to be reassuring. 

Be 100% honest and transparent and don't distance your self... this would spin her out. Hold her often and tell her you love her everyday.. just the normal stuff really  

And yes be patient but take time out for yourself too. This must be really difficult to live with on a daily basis.

Have to ask..have you ever done anything to break her trust? Or has someone else close to her betrayed her in some big way??


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

waiwera said:


> Give the counselling time... she has taken many years to get to the stage she is at now...change is never rapid and if it is it's often fleeting change.
> 
> Will you be able see a counselor at any stage?
> He/she may be able to give you strategies/tools to cope. Phrases to use. Physical actions you can take to be reassuring.
> ...



Thank you.
We visit the same councillor. Both joint and individually. She (doc) has been of help to me, but mostly asks me to be patient.

My wife was with lots of "player" types in her younger years so she is used to men like that - 180 opposite of me. She also dated married men (something I have expressed strong disapproval about). As a teenager, her close friend slept with her first serious boyfriend - double betrayal.

Only thing I ever to come between us is before my wife joined our company a girl and I in the office became close and used to have lunch, etc. She however had a boyfriend (now her husband) so we did nothing even though we both knew there was a connection. We eventually severed and then came back as close friends with no attachments. She still works here., but we don't socialize.

Early in our dating my wife asked if I had dated anyone in the company and I said no, but I did have lunch with this girl and kind of had a crush on her. I wanted to be honest. Well...later a woman who has since been fired told my then girlfriend/soon to be wife that I was soooo in love with this other girl that she was surprised the two of us were dating. My wife thought I had lied to her. Turns out this other woman was jealous as she had liked me and didn't like that my wife got me "so easy" and wanted to sow discord. She did.

That's it. Anything that ever happened was before I met my wife - and nothing happened anyway since I divorced by ex.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

It does makes the situation a little easier to understand though.. I am suspicious of my H too. He lied to me about issues that were important to me/us/our marriage and now I don't trust him the way I should..as his wife. It's really sad because he's a wonderful man in many ways.

Your wife has a history of her trust being broken.. it takes a long time to build trust, moments to shatter it and a lifetime to rebuild it, I believe. 

I would strongly recommend getting AND reading a book called 
His Needs Her Needs (2nd time today I've recommended it). You will see it mentioned often on the boards.

It will explain so much but there is a chapter about a womans need for honesty and openness. it explains how lies/secrets destroy a womans sense of security. After reading it you will be able to understand where she is coming from and maybe this will help you both. I hope it does


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

waiwera said:


> It does makes the situation a little easier to understand though.. I am suspicious of my H too. He lied to me about issues that were important to me/us/our marriage and now I don't trust him the way I should..as his wife. It's really sad because he's a wonderful man in many ways.
> 
> Your wife has a history of her trust being broken.. it takes a long time to build trust, moments to shatter it and a lifetime to rebuild it, I believe.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I will check out the book.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

waiwera said:


> It does makes the situation a little easier to understand though.. I am suspicious of my H too. He lied to me about issues that were important to me/us/our marriage and now I don't trust him the way I should..as his wife. It's really sad because he's a wonderful man in many ways.
> 
> *Your wife has a history of her trust being broken.. it takes a long time to build trust, moments to shatter it and a lifetime to rebuild it, I believe.*
> 
> ...


That's the most painful part; the trusting. Or not trusting! This situation somewhat mirrors my own, Corum. I hope you and your wife can find peace.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> That's the most painful part; the trusting. Or not trusting! This situation somewhat mirrors my own, Corum. I hope you and your wife can find peace.


Thank you.
I suppose I might have an unreasonable expectation of trustworthiness...but for me, my word and my honour are my most valuable things.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Corum, my husband is a good man on many levels. He tells me time and time again that he CAN be the man I want him to be. He speaks of his word and his honour as well. I'd love nothing more to believe him. But sadly, when he forces us to revisit the same old tired issues over and over again, his word and honour don't mean much. He's made promise after promise to change, to get help, yet he never does. For awhile, things will be good...I get lulled into a false sense of security by closing my eyes, and then I get made a fool of again.

Right now, there is nothing my husband could possibly say that I would believe. Other than "Maybe we should look into a separation." I might consider that.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

I understand your sentiment CandieGirl, and if I had done wrong I would be deeply in regret. However it was not me and yet I am paying the price. This is where the frustration comes in...


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Had a nice blow-out last night.
Was skyping my mom and told her my wife went to a Ferragamo wife tasting event and met and got photos with Salvatore himself. My wife was very happy about this and wanted to share. My mom is not too familiar with the brand - she is not rich - and said yes Ferragamo is very nice if you like $3000 scarfs. I told her it wasn't that expensive and we talked about something else.

After I got off the skype call my wife said, "what did your mother say about me???" I initially didn't know what she was talking about. She then raised her voice and started ranting about she can buy what she likes and my mother has no right to criticize her fashion choices or ferragamo, etc. I told her that never happened, she was just commenting on how expensive the brand is, augmented by her lack of experience. She never commented about my wife. 

Of course my wife did not believe this and escalated. I told her repeatedly this was not the case and to stop as I wasn't going to have such an argument. She escalated further saying how my mom says bad things about her (never happened) and then I told her she needs to stop this fighting against attacks that never happened. 

She has a pattern of imagining attacks or offences, then striking back with an offensive defence...all this while the attack never happened.

It's making me crazy and has been happening for years now.
I told her I wanted a divorce and to get the papers the following day. She said she would, absolutely. [In Japan all you need is a piece of paper for mutual consent divorce, no lawyers or fees].

Today she doesn't want to get the paper. She is too busy, or her shoes are not suitable for walking a few minutes to the town hall for the form. 

Seriously, I am going nuts here...


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## Hira (Aug 16, 2012)

Yes they are but if you give love then you deserve love. In case you cheated then you don't need to deserve love.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi corum. Your in a difficult position but I have to hand it to you that Id certinly like to shake your hand.
I have similar issues to those of your wife may be not quite as deep. (There I admit it) Your W is suffering Paranoia fueled I guess by anxiety which in turn was fired up sometime in her past. You mentioned her dating married men in the past. Therefore she has seen how the games are played. Frequenlty people that have either been very badly hurt by a cheat or have been a cheat themselves have these issues. 

*Keep being patient* - its really hard, indeed its probabley the hardest thing youll ever do. The reaction to the Skype call I suspect was played over in your W's head from a simple OH thats expensive comment through to the point where your mother was heavily critisising her for going to the party (although in reality this actually didnt happen). Its something that anxiety sufferers do, they take a normal situation play it through in their heads, then they will put a twist in there so that its a negitive comment, a case of what if this happened or wss said what will I do, then they run that through their heads a few times and add in the fact that this type of crisisism is probably being said regulally etc. You can see then that your W is over thinking the a issue. She then is fired up and ready to take on the flight or fight scenario. The case of the scarf has the fight scenario and your W caming at you fighting. Sadly your W's defense mechanism kicks in at a lot lower stage than yours or indeed most other peoples. I say this from experience of the effect. Its good that your W's theropist has spoken to you and that you can see all be it a slight improvement in your W's reaction to other females it is still a very possitive improvement and shows that your W is working hard to remove this obsticle. All I will say is stay positive, keep pouring out your feelings here if needed as many here can see what your experiencing, those like me who suffer the anxiety issues can empthise and hopefully support you. Its a tough one and something that I wish to god someone would come up with a magic pill to stop. 

Good old supporting comments to your wife is certinly needed. Its goes to enforce the clear love you have for her and it will over time be something your wife will see. 
Good luck fella.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Hira said:


> Yes they are but if you give love then you deserve love. In case you cheated then you don't need to deserve love.


I would never ever under any condition even consider cheating. Ever.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Pault said:


> Hi corum. Your in a difficult position but I have to hand it to you that Id certinly like to shake your hand.
> I have similar issues to those of your wife may be not quite as deep. (There I admit it) Your W is suffering Paranoia fueled I guess by anxiety which in turn was fired up sometime in her past. You mentioned her dating married men in the past. Therefore she has seen how the games are played. Frequenlty people that have either been very badly hurt by a cheat or have been a cheat themselves have these issues.
> 
> *Keep being patient* - its really hard, indeed its probabley the hardest thing youll ever do. The reaction to the Skype call I suspect was played over in your W's head from a simple OH thats expensive comment through to the point where your mother was heavily critisising her for going to the party (although in reality this actually didnt happen). Its something that anxiety sufferers do, they take a normal situation play it through in their heads, then they will put a twist in there so that its a negitive comment, a case of what if this happened or wss said what will I do, then they run that through their heads a few times and add in the fact that this type of crisisism is probably being said regulally etc. You can see then that your W is over thinking the a issue. She then is fired up and ready to take on the flight or fight scenario. The case of the scarf has the fight scenario and your W caming at you fighting. Sadly your W's defense mechanism kicks in at a lot lower stage than yours or indeed most other peoples. I say this from experience of the effect. Its good that your W's theropist has spoken to you and that you can see all be it a slight improvement in your W's reaction to other females it is still a very possitive improvement and shows that your W is working hard to remove this obsticle. All I will say is stay positive, keep pouring out your feelings here if needed as many here can see what your experiencing, those like me who suffer the anxiety issues can empthise and hopefully support you. Its a tough one and something that I wish to god someone would come up with a magic pill to stop.
> ...


 Thanks a lot. You sound like you know exactly what I am facing.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I hate to be the the turd in the punch bowl, but have you considered the possibility that her suspicions come from her behavior and not your own? 

I didn't find out my wife was cheating until she had already left. But one of the things I remember clearly is that after she had cheated on me, she became _extremely_ suspicious of me. She accused me of having an affair with my best friend's wife. She accused me of having sex with one of my classmates, several of my clients, and she was constantly trying to snoop on my computer. I gave her full access to my professional life and my electronic one but she was inconsolable. She became extremely paranoid and was constantly, viciously asking "what were they saying about me?" and the like. 

This is not an isolated case, either. When someone cheats, they immediately begin to wonder about things like karma and irony, and they then suspect that the person they've cheated on is as sinister as they themselves are. 

I'm not saying this is the case in your scenario. But it is something you should be aware of because it does happen. I've also noticed in your posts that your wife has a history of dating married men, which to me seems should trouble you more than any of her problems in trusting you.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> I hate to be the the turd in the punch bowl, but have you considered the possibility that her suspicions come from her behavior and not your own?
> 
> I didn't find out my wife was cheating until she had already left. But one of the things I remember clearly is that after she had cheated on me, she became _extremely_ suspicious of me. She accused me of having an affair with my best friend's wife. She accused me of having sex with one of my classmates, several of my clients, and she was constantly trying to snoop on my computer. I gave her full access to my professional life and my electronic one but she was inconsolable. She became extremely paranoid and was constantly, viciously asking "what were they saying about me?" and the like.
> 
> ...


:iagree:My ex as well!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I feel your pain. Its exhausting. The constant reassurance, the constant talking about issues. When did life get so complicated? How long does it go on for? I am sure your like me , you just want peace in your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Corum said:


> I understand your sentiment CandieGirl, and if I had done wrong I would be deeply in regret. However it was not me and yet I am paying the price. This is where the frustration comes in...


What she is probably holding onto (not that it makes it OK) is that you weren't up front with her about that woman at work that you had a crush on. That someone else felt the need to tell her about it probably fueled it into a brushfire. 

That is almost identical to what happened with my husband while we were dating...unfortunately, it set the stage for further issues, and no matter what happens, I'm always brought back to that # 1 lie. 2 years later, I'm seriously considering ending things because of it.

You can't go back and fix that now; all I can say is be 100% honest with your wife and hope that she eventually comes around.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> What she is probably holding onto (not that it makes it OK) is that you weren't up front with her about that woman at work that you had a crush on. That someone else felt the need to tell her about it probably fueled it into a brushfire.
> 
> That is almost identical to what happened with my husband while we were dating...unfortunately, it set the stage for further issues, and no matter what happens, I'm always brought back to that # 1 lie. 2 years later, I'm seriously considering ending things because of it.
> 
> You can't go back and fix that now; all I can say is be 100% honest with your wife and hope that she eventually comes around.


Well I was honest about the crush...told her on the first date.
Additionally that was over months before I ever met her. I say over though I never touched the girl even


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

An to all - I am SURE my wife is not cheating. My first wife cheated on me... 

We work in the same company and are together most of the day/ night.
I am at the gym for an hour 3x a week and I am home by 7PM. She is often cooking for me at this time.

She is an honest woman. She was a "bad girl" in her past - in Japanese terms at least, but not now. And she regrets some of her past. That's 10-20 years ago now. 
It's just I have all the baggage dumped on me and set afire very other day. 
And my my fire extinguishers are running on empty..


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> *What she is probably holding onto (not that it makes it OK) is that you weren't up front with her about that woman at work that you had a crush on. That someone else felt the need to tell her about it probably fueled it into a brushfire. *
> 
> That is almost identical to what happened with my husband while we were dating...unfortunately, it set the stage for further issues, and no matter what happens, I'm always brought back to that # 1 lie. 2 years later, I'm seriously considering ending things because of it.
> 
> You can't go back and fix that now; all I can say is be 100% honest with your wife and hope that she eventually comes around.


My situation is similar. My fiancé tells me that I am "better" than his EA. Wow, that sounds nice but my memory reminds me that he didn't drop the "just friends" charades until I asked him to.

So of course, this fuels a need in myself to be hyper vigilant so that I nip things in the bud. It also makes me feel that until I took a stand --on any matter now-- he has the feeling of "who gives a ****, if she's not confident enough to ask for it, then she doesn't deserve it." 

That's enough to make you want to be proactive.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Corum said:


> My wife is chronically suspicious.


Corum, you are describing a woman who has a strong fear of abandonment, which would explain why she sees a dire threat in the most trivial of behaviors. If she has such a fear, she likely acquired it in early childhood, not from the exBFs she is now disparaging. As you said in another thread, she had a very difficult childhood.

If she has such a strong fear, it likely went unnoticed during your courtship period only because her intense infatuation with you held her abandonment fear at bay. That is, her thinking of you as the perfect white knight -- her savior -- prevented her from worrying about abandonment. Yet, as soon as the infatuation evaporated -- as usually happens right after the marriage ceremony (if not several months earlier) -- the fear returned.

Her having such a fear would mean you likely will be subject to an endless series of sh!t tests to prove your loyalty and love. Yet, trying to prove your love to a woman who is incapable of loving or trusting herself will be an impossible task. I say this after having been foolish enough to try for 15 years with my exW. 

What happens is that, every time you pass one of her devotion tests, she still will refuse to believe you. Instead, she will simply raise the hoop higher that you must jump through on the next test. Likewise, the harder you try to prove your love, the more insistent she will be that you don't love her. How can she believe you love her when she is unable to love herself?

Significantly, a strong fear of abandonment is one of the hallmarks of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which affects 6% of the population -- including my exW. It also is significant that several behaviors you describe in your other three threads -- the anger issues, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," lack of any long-term close friends, and the rapid flips between loving you and devaluing you -- also are classic traits of BPD. Further, it is common for a BPDer to be extremely sensual and passionate during the honeymoon and -- as occurred with you -- for the sex to go off a cliff immediately after the marriage ceremony.

Importantly, I do not know whether your W has strong BPD traits or not. I've not even met the woman. Further, if she does have strong traits, there are a few other symptoms she likely should be exhibiting but which you do not mention. I therefore suggest that you read about such traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. Although you are not capable of diagnosing her, spotting the red flags is not difficult. There is nothing subtle about BPD traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, always being "The Victim," and a strong, irrational fear of abandonment.


> She is in individual therapy as well as our MC.


If she has strong BPD traits like my exW, you can forget MC. It likely will be a total waste of money until she has had several years of IC to work on her far more serious issues. As to her IC, you cannot rely on her psychologist for candid information. For many reasons, therapists are loath to tell a BPDer (much less her H) the name of her disorder. (For an explanation, see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.) 

Relying on your W's therapist for candid advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for advice during the divorce. It is important to consult with a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR interests, not hers. I therefore encourage you to see your own psychologist -- for a visit or two _by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. 

While you are waiting for an appointment, I suggest you read my brief description of what it was like to live with a BPDer. My post appears in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Corum.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Corum said:


> Well I was honest about the crush...told her on the first date.
> Additionally that was over months before I ever met her. I say over though I never touched the girl even


Sorry, I must be missing something...what was it that some other woman went and told your wife (then gf) that got her upset?


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

haks very much Upton. My ex wife was / is BPD. I know it all too well. I was everything to her; and the - worse than nothing. She always feared me leaving her, me dying first, whatever. After 12 years of blissfull marriage we moved back to Japan and in a few months she had an EA that went full-blown. He is now her husband and they have my daughter.

My current wife has lots of issues she is facing.
It's just if I can weather the storm...or if I even should...
I want to be patient, caring, understanding, but I'm only mortal.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Sorry, I must be missing something...what was it that some other woman went and told your wife (then gf) that got her upset?


Yes. This other woman in the office. Let's call her "Y-san".
She was pretty reviled by everyone in the office, and I knew she liked me but paid no heed. When I first started working I was married to my ex...any anyway this woman is far from my type.

My wife extended to her as they were the same age (over 40 in Japan can be tough) and their desks were close.

My wife thought she would be happy when she told "Y-san "of this relationship. They were friendly and she was going to share her happiness. Instead she became nasty and basically tried to sabotage our only three month old relationship. She told my wife I was so in love with this girl that I must be forever heartbroken and could never recover. ow I could date someone else - she was shocked! (???)

I had trusted this woman "Y-san" too, which is why she knew I had feelings for this girl. Not only did she not keep this information from months ago in private, but she embellished it beyond imagination and tossed it in my wife's face. My wife knew she was jealous of her, but still the words stung her.

We both came to hate her - "fortunately" she was laid off...


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I see...well, whether the info from Y-san was exagerated or not, I'm betting it plays a huge roll in your wife's ongoing insecurity.

I only speak from my own experience, though. Everytime I have an issue with my own husband in the honesty department, I can't help but go all the way back to that first deception. Why, I don't really know, my mind just wanders there.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I see...well, whether the info from Y-san was exagerated or not, I'm betting it plays a huge roll in your wife's ongoing insecurity.
> 
> I only speak from my own experience, though. Everytime I have an issue with my own husband in the honesty department, I can't help but go all the way back to that first deception. Why, I don't really know, my mind just wanders there.


I am curious...asking a woman...why would a non-relationship months before I knew her existence be an issue...especially if I was up-front and told her on the first date?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Corum said:


> I am curious...asking a woman...why would a non-relationship months before I knew her existence be an issue...especially if I was up-front and told her on the first date?


My case is slightly different...but I can only guess that your wife doesn't completely believe you regarding this woman. She probably wonders why a third party would bother embellishing such a story. Maybe she wonders if you really were in love with this other woman. It doesn't matter that it was before you even met...


For me, my husband lied outright about an old 'friend'. I found out from a third party that the relationship had been a sexual one (FWB). To this day, I still think there was more to that relationship than what he admits to; he only admitted to the sexual part of it because, as I said, someone else outed him. Honestly? I think he was head over heels for this woman, and that it wasn't totally reciprocated...he gets too emotional about it for it just to be a 'FWB' arrangement, as he insisted it was.

Even though that was in the past, before I met him, it still stings me. Even right now, as I tell the story.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Corum said:


> My ex wife was / is BPD. I know it all too well.... My current wife has lots of issues she is facing.


I suspected as much about your exW but was talking about your current W. Are you sure your current W's "lots of issues" are all that much different from those of your first W? Because we caregivers tend to be attracted to the same women again, it is common for us to walk out on one only to run into the arms of another just like the one we left.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Uptown said:


> I suspected as much about your exW but was talking about your current W. Are you sure your current W's "lots of issues" are all that much different from those of your first W? Because we caregivers tend to be attracted to the same women again, it is common for us to walk out on one only to run into the arms of another just like the one we left.


My current W is if anything overly independent. No clinging here...I think her issues though significant are very different.
She doesn't trust and doesn't let anyone one in..


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Corum is your now wife as well as your previous wife both Japanese? Unfortunately your story about your first wife is all too common. I lived in Japan for a while and I also have experience dating Japanese women. I've also seen and heard about how often things do not go well when foreigners and Japanese marry. Of course your relationship can always be the exception. Your wife now, when she was dating those married men was it by choice? Did she not know they were married?


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes both Japanese...and yes Japanese women carry unique baggage. Yeah, I don't have custody of my daughter even though my ex cheated...that is Japan.

My wife and married me; yes she knew they were married. Unfortunately this is common in Japan. She also did not really date Japanese men due to traumatic episodes when she was younger on public transport. If you lived in Japan you know what I mean....


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes I do. 

The reason why I asked is because any woman who choices to date men that are not available is probably afraid of true intimacy. She is probably panicking because she is not used to open and healthy relationships. Maybe she is responding the way she is because she feels deep down inside she doesn't really deserve this. Or she could be sabotaging it subconsciously for the same reason. Is she open about her feelings? In my experiences Japanese don't communicate well about their feelings. And with the unique experiences she has had she may permanently want to shut people out. 

By the way, an Australian friend of mine had the same situation of your first marriage. He met his Japanese wife in Australia. She was fun loving and open. They had kids. When they came back to Japan she changed. It was like she was embarassed to be married to a foreigner. He said she just started ignoring him completely and then cheated on him and left. I guess the pressure got to her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Corum said:


> My current W is if anything overly independent. No clinging here...I think her issues though significant are very different. She doesn't trust and doesn't let anyone one in..


The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Uptown said:


> The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. *As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. * Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?


I agree with this. I don't know if she is BP. But dating men that are unavailable is definitely a fear of intimacy. Also would explain her independence. My EX-GF told me she liked dating married men because she was free to hang out with her friends and have fun because married men weren't always available. She didn't have to see and talk with them everyday. When it's like that, it's too much for them at times. You said she is always suspicious. She probably needs to find things wrong to validate her fears and insecurities. Even it's nothing she needs to create something. When I told my EX-GF I didn't smoke, drink, or do drugs. She told me it made her uncomfortable that I always deprived myself. :wtf:


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes its true that many Japanese date married men so there is no commitment. At the time my wife was still in her 20s and was being young and irresponsible. I know of two cases of married men.
She did have some longer term relationships, once four years, but she decided against offers of marriage. For the most part she played. Almost like a guy really. The fact many people thought she was a model or likewise made it that much easier.

She definately has commitment issues however and she knows it. She spent 43 years single by choice. She liked having her own pace and never having to answer or compromise with a partner. 
Marriage brought new challenges for her.
And me LOL.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Uptown said:


> The inability to trust others is one of the BPD traits. As to not "letting anyone in," a strong fear of engulfment (from intimacy) also is a BPD trait. Indeed, BPDers have two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I therefore ask what symptoms you see that are inconsistent with a pattern of BPD traits?


I dont see the intense emotional lability. She is very "dry" both ways. She never cries, almost never yells. She can be very cold and cruel however. She dos not show intense feelings either way. 
She also has quite good confidence in herself, though I would not call her narcissistic. 
Sorry I don't have the DSM in front of me right now, but she is nothing like my ex.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Well... the wife went to see her therapist Saturday and discussed our issues giving an update.

Therapist's advice is to move to a new place where we have another room where my wife can have some "alone" time. As my wife has always lived alone - other than with family - she needs space. She is constantly edgy and stressed and says this is because she needs her own room. This would be the second move in two years. Last time she was "so sure" this new place would fix all our problems. Now my wife is again "so sure".

I understand space needs, but I see isolating herself in her own room rather than dealing with the root cause of why she is constantly irritated and anxious. She admits it's not my fault, that it is her bad way of dealing with things...her background, etc. But if that is true why not try to work on the root cause of the stresses, the paranoia, the fears and insecurities. 

Adding another room does not solve anything, but prolongs the inevitable. What if due to finances we cannot afford a two bedroom place? I just have to accept she will blow up at me for no reason every other day?

This doesn't seem reasonable and I am afraid her therapist is looking for the easy way out. 

- Oh and Uptown - I gave is a lot of thought this weekend and I am afraid she does show BPD traits...and that does not bode well as I have experience with a BPD wife before.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Move so you wife can have another room and more alone time??? This is the beginning of a domestic partnership and the end of your marriage IMO. This is will be her "safe haven". You will not be allowed in. This will be the place she goes in her head and you will have no idea where she is coming from because she will start to make more and more decisions that don't concern you when they should. You will physically be helping her shut you out. I think.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> Move so you wife can have another room and more alone time??? This is the beginning of a domestic partnership and the end of your marriage IMO. This is will be her "safe haven". You will not be allowed in. This will be the place she goes in her head and you will have no idea where she is coming from because she will start to make more and more decisions that don't concern you when they should. You will physically be helping her shut you out. I think.


I though of this too...she is already emotionally (and often physically) distant. This will only add to that... I don't see how it will make us closer.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Corum said:


> Uptown - I gave is a lot of thought this weekend and I am afraid she does show BPD traits.


Corum, keep in mind that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. Like the nine other PDs, BPD is a spectrum disorder which affects us all to some degree. At issue, then, is NOT whether she exhibits such traits. Of course she does. We ALL do. At issue is whether she exhibits them at a persistent and strong level.


> I dont see the intense emotional lability. She is very "dry" both ways. She never cries, almost never yells. She can be very cold and cruel however.


A small portion of BPDers (perhaps 10%) turn their anger inward instead of outward on their spouses. They rarely yell or scream or throw temper tantrums because, instead of "acting out," they "act in." This is not to say, however, that you would escape punishment. They punish the spouse with coldness, icy withdrawal, and cruel passive-aggressive behavior.

Because the "loud borderlines" attract all the attention online, it is difficult to find a description of the quiet ones. There nonetheless are two excellent articles I've found. The one that may be most applicable to your situation is by A.J. Mahari at Borderline Personality - The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment - Nons - Borderline Personality Disorder Inside Out. The second article, by therapist Shari Schreiber, seems less applicable because she emphasizes the "poor little me" aspect of such quiet BPDers, not the coldness. Schreiber calls them "waif borderlines" at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.. (The waif behavior typically exhibits strong hypochondria, as is explained at Print Page - Symptoms of hypochondria in BPD?.) 

Importantly, if you are not seeing _emotional instability_ -- where she flips back and forth between loving you and devaluing (even hating) you -- you are NOT seeing the red flags for a strong pattern of BPD traits. Of the ten PDs, BPD is the only one in which instability is a basic symptom. 

This is why a substantial faction of the APA members have been lobbying for 20 years to change its name from "BPD" to "Emotion Regulation Disorder." Although narcissists and sociopaths can treat you ever bit as cruelly and abusively as a BPDer, they nonetheless are STABLE people.


> The wife went to see her therapist Saturday ...I am afraid her therapist is looking for the easy way out.


As I said, it would be foolish to rely on your W's therapist for advice. He is ethically bound to protect HER interests. I strongly recommend you see your OWN psychologist -- for a visit or two -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.


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## Corum (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks Uptown.
The therapist is our marriage councillor and she sees us together and independently. She says she thinks it best to see each other separately at times so we can speak freely. She doesn't ask to see me as much as my wife. 
She told my wife as she has so much on her mind she can come see her when needed. Not an ideal method IMO, but unfortunately therapy in Japan is behind the US, even though this doc spent a lot of time in the States.

We saw another therapist last year who diagnosed her with depression and put her on zoloft and then wellbutrin, but that did not turn out too well. In the end he was obviously seeing us as a cash-cow.


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Corum I feel for you and your situation. My heart goes out to you man. 

Uptown, great post.


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