# Limits to Demands and Ideas on Fairness



## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

Real simple story here on this one. All material facts are stated below. No secrets or hidden issues. All facts stated as directly as possible.

Fact Pattern: 

15 year old marriage at stake. Last 6 years have been steadily downhill. 

*Two major issues from Husband's point of view:*

(1) A 45 year old Wife decides that she is no longer going to work or seek gainful employment. Husband finds this unacceptable as the loss of income is considerable and family finances are of the day to day sort. Wife is aware of the financial limits, but is unswayed.

(2) In addition, Wife takes the position that 10 year old daughter is to have no relationship with husband's family, who she no longer approves. Wife keeps daughter away from Husband's family at all costs. Wife is open in taking the position that, because she does not get along with Husband's family, daughter is not allowed to visit with aunts/cousins/grandparents.

*From Wife's point of view:*

(1) Wife is not obligated to work, though Wife has an education and is physically fit to obtain and/or look for substantial, gainful employment.

(2) Husband is poor excuse for a father/husband because Husband refuses to accept multiple telephone calls from Wife while he is working and Husband (at this point) has began refusing to provide Wife with money for personal spending, though Husband does pay all household bills.

(3) Wife is entitled to prevent daughter from having contact with Husband's family on account of Wife not liking Husband's family any more.


Counseling has resolved nothing. Wife insists that her behavior will not change. Wife does claim she is praying for marriage. Husband find's Wife's position unacceptable and a violation of Husband's paternal rights. There is no apparent middle ground.


Serious thoughts or comments appreciated.


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## lifelesson01 (Nov 3, 2014)

That's a really difficult situation. I had a similiar feeling towards my exes mother and I found it very difficult to be pleasant while I was around her so I started making excuses to get out of it and allowed my husband to take the children without me. I had a serious reason to dislike her...she had endangered one of my children and was unapolgetic about it, does your wife have a legit reason like that?

Does your wife want to take a break from work, maybe she was just really burned out, or does she want to never work again?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Kinda simple really.

Just don't allow your wife access to any money.
Get your own bank account, cancel all current credit cards.
Once she's pawned her last piece of jewelry she'll have no choice but to find an income.

I'm sure you still visit your family regularly, just take your daughter with you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

As long as there is no safety issue, as a previous poster mentioned, you ought to draw the line on family visitation.

What I mean by that is simple. Take your daughter to visit you family for the day. 

Don't tell her where you are going in advance. Just that its a surprise. This will leave her faultless. 

And then let your wife do whatever she wants. Including leave you. FYI - if you two get divorced, the courts will assign her an imputed income even if she refuses to work. 

Go see a lawyer, they will tell you this is true. She can of course refuse to work. She will however be poor. Family court has seen this scenario more times than you can imagine. They have a formula for dealing with it. 

You can also let your wife know that in the event of a divorce, you will make sure your daughter sees your family very often. As she will have no say over what happens during the time you have custody. 


[/B]


exhaustedmarriage said:


> Real simple story here on this one. All material facts are stated below. No secrets or hidden issues. All facts stated as directly as possible.
> 
> Fact Pattern:
> 
> ...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Is there a reason that she doesn't like your family? Did something happen? If your family actively badmouths her in front of your daughter, I can understand her not wanting them around her. 

My in laws did this with my husbands first wife, and she wouldn't allow them to see their granddaughter for that reason. They do the same to me, so in that situation I too would not allow them to see my children.

If it was simply a case of I don't like them though, that's a whole different thing.

Did you two discuss her not working or did she just decide on her own and announce it to you? That's very unfair if that's what she did.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Gee, I wonder whose perspective this was written by...

Look, you're not telling the entire story here are you...

People just don't make hard core decisions like this without some serious issues going unresolved. What's the REAL reason she won't allow your daughter to see your family? And quitting her job? 

You're painting the situation as she's off in left field somewhere. But you know exactly WHY she's doing this. So, spill it.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks very much to all who responded. To further aid the discussion, let me supplement with the following and hopefully present the same in the most neutral manner possible in the hopes of getting beneficial responses and thoughts:


(1) Safety is not an issue with regard to daughter and family.

(2) In fact, she has 3 cousins at or near her age who live 30 minutes away whom she has not seen in years, not even so much as a birthday party, because Wife will not allow it. Yet, Daughter is routinely taken to every birthday party that arises for kids from her school. Husband finds this hurtful and obviously embarassing, as said cousins continually ask about why they cannot play with Daughter.

(3) Unsure as to any reason WHY on all this, other than Wife has systematically fallen out with Husband's family, one by one by one. No major events other than typical family issues from time to time. It is probably fair to say that, Wife is not particularly social and has a sort of lofty opinion regarding those who do not meet her critera with regards to education or income. 

(4) Wife has become more rigid over time. This did not occur overnight, but Wife's position has become more and more rigid with no sign of flexibility. Recently, Wife takes Daughter away for the entire Sat/Sun, not coming home till 10 or later, preventing almost any opportunity for Husband and Daughter to interact.

(5) Wife has been offered an apt with Divorce Attorney, as Wife does not appear willing to acknowledge the realities of Divorce, such as the presumption of joint custody as well as the financial impact of having to sell family abode and perhaps other assets and those post Divorce, lifestyle will be considerably different for all parties. 

(6) Counseling is an option for Husband, but Wife appears reluctant. Husband suspects that Wife is uncomfortable with trying to defend her position and Husband believes that Wife's position will not be well received by a Counselor. Admittedly, such is speculation on the part of Husband.

Anyway, for what it is worth, the factors above might clarify a few things for the discussion.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You paint a picture of an unreasonable person.

Stop trying to get her to see your point of view. Give her choices.
Example of a choice: Martial counseling or Divorce. Work or Divorce. Call me one x per day or I will not take your calls at work.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> *Two major issues from Husband's point of view:*
> 
> (1) A 45 year old Wife decides that she is no longer going to work or seek gainful employment. Husband finds this unacceptable as the loss of income is considerable and family finances are of the day to day sort. Wife is aware of the financial limits, but is unswayed.


Financial negligence. Time for divorce.

No need to keep going here......it's done with


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think the facts are enough. What else is going on in this relationship? For instance what does your wife want to talk to you about during the day that you refused to take her calls at work? 

how's your relationship with your daughter? how's the rest of your relationship with your wife ?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening exhaustedmarriage
Is the wife willing to put in a full day working around the house? Was there any discussion of the roles of husband and wife before getting married? 

Does the wife understand the drastic reduction in standard of living that results from one person not working, and is she content with this?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Yeah, wife better be Martha Stewart and Linda Lovelace rolled into one, and the Husband's family better be abusive pigs. Or she is way out of line.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> Real simple story here on this one. All material facts are stated below. No secrets or hidden issues. All facts stated as directly as possible.
> 
> Fact Pattern:
> 
> ...



Husband should kick entitled wife to the curb and get parental rights through the courts.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

She is leaving house with your daughter every Saturday and Sunday for the whole day, coming back at 10 pm? And you are accepting it? This jeopardizes your whole relationship with your daughter, and you are allowing it. that's the biggest issue for me here.

What does your unemployed wife do the whole day, five days a week, with just one child (I assume it's a school age kid by now) Did she cut her spending habits to reflect the decrease in the income?

Outside of all these issues - is there still something positive going between the two of you?


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

I sure do appreciate the replies. In fact, the entire reason for the posting was to see if Husband was over-reacting to the situation. The posting was sort of designed with "gut check" mentality, hoping to sort of assess the situation as honestly as possible and get some very basic feed back. That seemed better than acting in haste and making some decision that was not well grounded. So, I (Husband) tried to present the fact pattern as openly and honestly as I could, in the hopes of getting earnest replies, which I think I did pretty much. I suppose the replies told me what I already knew, but with a 14 year marriage and a 10 year old, Husband knows the stakes are pretty high. So, for those of you kind enough to reply, please know that each comment was read, line by line.


As for the remaining questions, well, we both always worked. Frankly, it takes two people working in most circumstances, considering the price of houses 5 years ago and also expenses associated with child care and private schools and so forth.

The nature of Husband's business is always cylical in nature. Never what you would call steady and often prone to extremes. Wife was in the financial services trade and is fully aware of the limits and pitfalls associated with Husband's business.

Wife is not working on account of Wife being "downsized" or "fired". Wife has steadfastly refused seek employment since that time, and is quite open about stating that "she deserves a break because she has worked her whole life". Notwithstanding the fact that the veracity of that statement is questionable, the fact is that the sudden loss of 60-70K year is substantial in the eyes of Husband. 

There is a somewhat extreme sense of entitlement on the part of Wife, from Husband's view point. Husband has at least some foundation to beleive that Wife refuses to work in order to punish Husband or to simply make his life more difficult or worrisome. Again, such is speculation on the part of Husband, but the flat refusal of an educated and experienced professional to look for work, leaving all bills and concerns as solely the Husband's responsibility, is very much an accurate representation. Husband very much believes that Wife seeks to make his life more difficult by leaving Family's existence entirely up to Husband and that Wife enjoys the additional stress created by Wife's refusal to work. Again, speculation on the part of Husband, but there is a foundation for the belief.

As for the calls at work, it become a very akward situation. Wife has admitted to calling Husband 37 times in a day. The calls are not emergency calls or even calls germane to any household or family affairs. The calls are to check up on Husband and to continually verify Husband's whereabouts. Wife becomes enraged if a call is not answered. Husband, admittedly, has grown weary of "being tracked like a convict" when he is at work. The constant calling has been a source of frustration. 

As for the "Martha Stewart" comment, the answer is no. House is generally a disaster area. Which, Husband can live with, after all, he did not seek to marry a maid. But, in response to the comment, the answer is no, Wife does not seek to make up for lack of a job with household duties. Husband pays the bills and does the grocery shopping and his own laundry. 

Anyway, if there is anything being overlooked that might make a difference in the board's analysis, Husband is happy to answer the same. Again, the idea of the posting was to simply make an honest effort at describing the core issues as Husband sees them and believes them to be and to sort of get a few "second opinions" from disinterested and neutral parties before making a decision.

Again, all the replies have been read and I thank each of you for the responses.


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

tacoma said:


> Kinda simple really.
> 
> Just don't allow your wife access to any money.
> Get your own bank account, cancel all current credit cards.
> ...


Do not follow this. It could backfire if you file for divorce


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

Is the job market where she can just get another job that pays as much or more?

Would you be willing to let her have a break, say for 3 months?

Be truthful here: Does your family mistreat her or badmouth her? Do you expect her to take **** and eat it and ask for more? Because if the extended family mistreats the parents they do not deserve a relationship with the kid.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You mention she's punishing you for some reason. She won't look for work because you think she feels you"owe" something to her.

Then, the 37 phone calls a day at work... To check up on you.

None of this seems normal.

Is there a basis for any of this.. As in, did you have an affair?

The reason I ask is.... She's bloody pissed off at you for something. 

What is it?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You dint talk about her like you care for her in any way. Wife has admitted to calling husband...

If you have checked out or if there is someone else then just say so.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I know you said you were trying to be neutral, trying to show her perspective, but 'her' perspective as you see it is just reiterating your perspective. You seem to have no clue as to what's really going on underneath the surface. Your guesses sound like they are based on your feelings of anger and bitterness. At no point have you seemed to acknowledge anything you have done to contribute to the unravelling of your marriage. I always doubt someone's version of events when they appear to be the innocent pawn in their own life and everyone else around them is behaving badly. I find it strange that your wife feels the need to 'punish' you (if indeed this is the case) and obviously doesn't trust you. She doesn't live in a vacuum, this has all developed for a reason.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm wondering why you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person? It seems like you're almost choosing to be outside of this (your!) situation, remaining as an observer rather than as a participant. Detaching yourself from the reality of what's going on. 

It's very odd. I think there's a lot more to this.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Said husband is a two dimensional provider whom said wife has learned to despise.

Said relationship has spiraled downward to the point where said participants will hit bottom soon. She will likely be relieved when you file. 

Hopefully the two of you will not repeat the neglect that led to the flat spin of said marriage.

When a relationship becomes legalistic, as yours has, it means that all the love has dripped out.


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## lifelesson01 (Nov 3, 2014)

There is more to this on your wife's side. She didn't choose to leave her job, she was downsized, that hurts one's self esteem. She is calling to check on your daily where abouts so she thinks there is reason to see where you are. It really sounds like she is hurt and unsure right now. If you have emotionally checked out then file for divorce, if you haven't then spend some time with your wife and help her to rebuild her self esteem.


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## lifelesson01 (Nov 3, 2014)

Marriage is work and it sounds like you need to work on it right now IF you want it to work out.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> Anyway, if there is anything being overlooked that might make a difference in the board's analysis, Husband is happy to answer the same.


OP, I wasn't sure why you were referring to both the Husband and Wife in 3rd person. I thought maybe you were talking about a couple you know, or perhaps you were a therapist or student looking for an outside perspective. But, it seems you are 'the husband'. Why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person? It seems very impersonal.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

No disrespect sir, but you come off as very cold, unloving & uncaring the way you write.

Your wife LOST her job. There is a possibility that she is grieving the loss, is depressed & not in a rational state of mind currently. Your income is marital community property (at least in my state) & it is NOT okay that you don't provide her with some discretionary spending money if you can afford to. 

I am not surprised that she is fighting back with multiple phone calls & threats to cut off your family......all inappropriate but it sounds like there is a war going on right now in your household which is horrific for your child to be in the middle of.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Are you involved with a third party?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Also, you say you pay all the bills & do the grocery shopping?

Are you financially controlling? Why can't she just go to the ATM & draw out cash for personal spending? Why doesn't she go grocery shopping? Is it because you want to control that as well?

She has a finance degree so she knows about budgets & balance sheets yet you cut her off from "personal spending."

I would love to hear her side of this story.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

He's using the 3rd person because he is trying to present the case from the standpoint of an objective bystander. It's a bit odd, but I think too much is being read into it.

I can't imagine a wife's side of the story that make her actions valid.

Some situations can be dealt with. This one's hopeless. 

File the papers and get it over with.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

but he's not objective.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

EM,

Have you had an affair?

If not, what caused wife to begin the compulsive surveillance?

Separate from that, are you saying your wife goes off with your daughter pretty much the whole weekend and does so leaving you behind. 

Why does she feel safe leaving you to your own devices all day Saturday and Sunday if she doesn't trust you. 

Is she constantly calling you during the weekend as well? 

-------
Do not cut her off from marital funds. Doing so is typically considered a type of marital abuse. 







exhaustedmarriage said:


> I sure do appreciate the replies. In fact, the entire reason for the posting was to see if Husband was over-reacting to the situation. The posting was sort of designed with "gut check" mentality, hoping to sort of assess the situation as honestly as possible and get some very basic feed back. That seemed better than acting in haste and making some decision that was not well grounded. So, I (Husband) tried to present the fact pattern as openly and honestly as I could, in the hopes of getting earnest replies, which I think I did pretty much. I suppose the replies told me what I already knew, but with a 14 year marriage and a 10 year old, Husband knows the stakes are pretty high. So, for those of you kind enough to reply, please know that each comment was read, line by line.
> 
> 
> As for the remaining questions, well, we both always worked. Frankly, it takes two people working in most circumstances, considering the price of houses 5 years ago and also expenses associated with child care and private schools and so forth.
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Since she is a believing woman, you might point out to her that God has already done His part in helping her marriage. He has provided detailed instructions on what a wife is supposed to do and be. He also has provided detailed instructions on a child's relationship with their parent. If she complies with the Creator's instruction manual, her marriage will very likely succeed. If she remains disobedient, there is little God can do to fix things. Refer her to Proverbs 31:10.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

The things she is doing are really strange - even assuming you have been cold, nasty husband who had several affairs. Professional woman, earning 60-70 K, in her 50s, deciding not to work anymore just to make you angry? very IMMATURE. Why? is she trying to show you that you cannot make it without her money? Apparently you can, so far. Not paying bills, not cleaning, not cooking, not doing laundry. What is she - Princess of Wales?

just this thing is very weird. Then calling you 37 times a day?? WTF? Leaving with your daughter for the whole weekends?

it is almost like she is daring you to divorce her. For some reason she cannot do it, but she wants you to do it. and by her being unemployed she secures alimony from you. If she worked, would she be higher earner, who would owe alimony to you?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She may be depressed after getting her butt kicked to the curb. Maybe she lost confidence and doesn't want to face rejection and maybe what she feels are lesser opportunities than what she just lost.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Just depression doesn't explain all those weird behaviors. There is something going on, either in her mind, or there is an elephan hidden in this relationship.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm betting on an elephant.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> The things she is doing are really strange - even assuming you have been cold, nasty husband who had several affairs. Professional woman, earning 60-70 K, in her 50s, deciding not to work anymore just to make you angry? very IMMATURE. Why? is she trying to show you that you cannot make it without her money? Apparently you can, so far. Not paying bills, not cleaning, not cooking, not doing laundry. What is she - Princess of Wales?
> 
> just this thing is very weird. Then calling you 37 times a day?? WTF? Leaving with your daughter for the whole weekends?
> 
> it is almost like she is daring you to divorce her. For some reason she cannot do it, but she wants you to do it. and by her being unemployed she secures alimony from you. If she worked, would she be higher earner, who would owe alimony to you?





Well, that is a good post and fair point. From Husband's point of view, Wife does seem to believe she is a bit "entitled", and Wife is actually pretty open about saying that she has "earned this break", not withstanding the financial realities that such a break has had pretty negative consequences on the finances. This is not a point that she would deny. In fact, she seems rather proud of it the fact that she no longer has any day to day worries about the finances. 

Many good posts here actually. I don't have an answer for any of this behavior, which is why I posted it. I did not know if this was some sort of mid-life crisis thing that Wives go through from time to time or whether it was some emotional crisis that I did not understand. Its a 14 year marriage, so I wanted a proverbial 'gut check" on this, as mentioned previously.

Frankly, the overridding concern was that it seemed odd for a formerly productive and educated person to just refuse to work when finances are still very much an issue and the control issue with the daughter struck me as unacceptable. Reading through these posts, it sounds like a number of the formum members might agree with those concerns. 

Though, admittedly, many have sort of missed the point and want to go beyond the fact pattern. Heck, many have found fault with the Husband/Wife/Daughter/Family verbiage as generic terms used to present the fact pattern. But, most who are academically inclined hopefully recognize that this is a rather common approach to presenting a fact pattern for discussion. 

The use of generic terms is are not employed to present a "cold" presentation, but to try to keep the material facts presented as objectively as possible. A few of the replies did not seem familiar with this approach and they seemed to be inclined to think there was some "Jerry Springer" angle here when such is not the case. A "cold" or "hearltess" person would never bother posting such a fact pattern on a forum because they would not care what any others thougth in the first place.

Anyway, I hope the discussion has been interesting for everyone.


Thanks for all of the replies.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

So...

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!

You cheated.

Just answer the darned question already.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

DayOne said:


> I'm wondering why you keep referring to yourself in the 3rd person? It seems like you're almost choosing to be outside of this (your!) situation, remaining as an observer rather than as a participant. Detaching yourself from the reality of what's going on.
> 
> It's very odd. I think there's a lot more to this.


I agree. He sounds robotic and detached. Sorry, guy, but the way you are referring to yourself as Husband and her as Wife sets off some red flags for me. Are you autistic? Do you emotionally isolate yourself? Enough with the "fact pattern" approach of the "academically inclined." It's NOT working for you.

You and your wife need to be able to talk openly about what is REALLY going on. Heartfelt, open, honest, real discussion. Are you capable of that? Is she?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

SurpriseMyself said:


> I agree. He sounds robotic and detached. Sorry, guy, but the way you are referring to yourself as Husband and her as Wife sets off some red flags for me. Are you autistic? Do you emotionally isolate yourself? Enough with the "fact pattern" approach of the "academically inclined." It's NOT working for you.
> 
> You and your wife need to be able to talk openly about what is REALLY going on. Heartfelt, open, honest, real discussion. Are you capable of that? Is she?


:iagree:

OP your style of telling your story makes you look downright abnormal. and people wouldn't mind you answering direct questions directly. e.g. have you ever cheated on her? has she ever cheated on you? and here's another direct question - do you love her?
obfuscation is not an academic discpline.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> 
> OP your style of telling your story makes you look downright abnormal. and people wouldn't mind you answering direct questions directly. e.g. have you ever cheated on her? has she ever cheated on you? and here's another direct question - do you love her?
> obfuscation is not an academic discpline.



As I said before, there is no known Jerry Springer stuff going. 

Not on anyone's part that I know of and why that would need to be stated more than once, I am not sure. 

I suppose, for many, it is simply easier to sort of heckle from the gallery and insinuate facts that are not part of the fact pattern and to speculate wildly (with absolutely no foundation), than to simply consider the question presented and set forth an insightful response. 

Each to his own I suppose, but I do thank the many of you have have provided interesting comments, such as WandaJ and Unbelievable. Clipclop as well.

The presentation format will not be a put off to anyone who has been engaged in theory or socratic educational methods. Its also widely used in standardized testing models and mathematics. The idea is to provide those being querried with the essential facts to provide a response. 

Again, thanks for the replies.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> As I said before, there is no known Jerry Springer stuff going.
> 
> Not on anyone's part that I know of and why that would need to be stated more than once, I am not sure.
> 
> ...


Are you familiar with the concept of the Elephant in the room?
Because it's there....somewhere...there is a CMN (Critical Moment of Neglect) that has created a serious problem for your marriage. 

That's what most people are getting at...It would seem, absent your wife also being here, that you are simply presenting the "facts" from your POV, and fishing for interpretations of them that will fit your model. None of these facts really matter anyway...they are symptoms of a problem. You know the problem...its in that brain of yours...maybe it's too painful, maybe you don't see it as the CMN that your wife does..but it's there. 

There are so many people here that could help you - but not having the full story....isn't going to get you anywhere. This isn't theory or standardized testing...this is about your marriage, which sounds like it's in serious trouble and your daughters home...that is about to have a meltdown...this is about real life...yours and your families. 

Everyone here wants you to get your marriage turned around..They want to help.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, you haven't really told us much to make informed input.

She refuses to get a job. You cut off her spending. Yet you're both still there. You haven't mentioned wanting a divorce nor have you said you want to stay together.

You're mad about the 37 calls to your workplace but will not divulge what she wanted to talk to you about. Only that she called. And you don't like it.

She took your kid for an extended weekend but refuse to say where they went or even why they came back at all.

She won't let your daughter see your family but you neglect to tell us why she dislikes them.

So unless you start giving some details, you're pretty much stuck with the answers already given.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

Revamped said:


> Well, you haven't really told us much to make informed input.
> 
> She refuses to get a job. You cut off her spending. Yet you're both still there. You haven't mentioned wanting a divorce nor have you said you want to stay together.
> 
> ...





Again, very pleased with many of the answers given. There were a few conspiracy based comments from those seeking a gossip angle, but you have to expect that on a public forum. Overall, good responses, so I do not feel to "stuck" at all.


Thanks.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

still wont say if he cheated. 

my take? OP doesnt want advice. he wants validation.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> still wont say if he cheated.
> 
> my take? OP doesnt want advice. he wants validation.


Wrong on both counts. And, such has been made previously clear. I guess you have gotten lost in some of the responses or did not read them with care, but that's ok. 


Again, many good replies notwithstanding the conspiracy oriented replies. 

Quite pleased with the vast majority of responses. Pretty nice discussion board you have here and all but a few had well stated positions.

*This thread can be closed if there is a moderator out there listening.*


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> Wrong on both counts. And, such has been made previously clear. I guess you have gotten lost in some of the responses or did not read them with care, but that's ok.
> 
> 
> Again, many good replies notwithstanding the conspiracy oriented replies.
> ...


you said there was no jerry springer stuff going on every time someone asked you if you cheated. i think thats where you are getting at when you say that i am wrong about the first point?

not sure. for someone who tries so hard to be objective as to refer to himself in the third person, its interesting, and probably telling, that you cannot answer a clear question with an an objective "no". 


as for the second point, i could be way off. i dont know what your intentions are. for all i know, you could be a thirteen year old boy who gets off on starting arguments on the internet. 

but i do know that you havent been objective. the "facts" are anything but.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

Wow. I thank the board for the insightful replies and your still lingering to cast about insults? It's clear that your problems are far bigger than mine.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

wa shukran. atamina leka haia saieeda. 

i think we have started the circles.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> The presentation format will not be a put off to anyone who has been engaged in theory or socratic educational methods. Its also widely used in standardized testing models and mathematics. The idea is to provide those being querried with the essential facts to provide a response.


:lol::lol::lol:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Wow, you really think you can be objective about your own position within the marriage? Even though several people are reading right through your messages and seeing the disdain you have for your wife. 

Funny you don't objectively mention how un-objective you are about said wife.

Sorry dude...you do not come across as someone who can objectively state the facts of your own case. Everything you write about yourself? Oh the Husband is clearly without fault. Everything you write about your Wife? Oh the Wife is clearly ALL FAULT.

Objective?

Right.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

not to mention evading answers. "no jerry springer"... could very well mean "nobody is banging the others family". OP can say that and feel justified that he didnt lie, even if he DID cheat on his wife. 

you know whats funny in all of this? my first gut reaction was to think that the WIFE had cheated and was now overly suspicious. but, my opinion has changed due to the OPs evasiveness and attempts at manipulating the responses of other posters. 

but that brings me to something... why would he even post here if he HAD cheated and was just afraid to own up to it? it would have to be the hamster running its wheel. but, i would think that someone in that case would not tempt others to expose their guilt. so, whats left?

either someone desperately trying to justify bad behavior or someone who just likes the drama of the dialogue. 

either way, as long as the OP evades straight answers, all i can do is guess.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Sometimes, the "why" fades away to a more silent, "it just is."

OP wants to know if he is overreacting to a set of givens by his wife. Well, the answer is no, not yet. It's a stalemate.

One has to let go, creating a winner and a loser, someone who is right and someone proven wrong. Since neither is willing to negotiate a truce on peaceful terms, it will stay magnetically charged until one gives up, creating a victor.

Who that will be, is anybody's guess...

They deserve each other...


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Before my husband had the job that he has now, (which fits him to a T btw), he worked for himself from the house. As much as I love him, he does not have the personality for this because he is a procrastinator. 

During these years, I was working my butt off. Super stressful and busy job. I was totally in charge of the kids too. Getting them ready in the morning, taking them to the grandparents for daycare, working all day, then picking them up, driving home, making dinner, cleaning the house, etc. He would NEVER offer to help or take the initiative, I always had to ask. After a while I just got tired of asking every single time. 

I would get so effing annoyed seeing him play on computer because he was done with his work that day. Not once did he say, "Hey you're cooking dinner, all bathe the kids". He only did it when I asked. Work would be slow for him and he's just goofing off. I'm thinking, "Hey, try to get more business or do something to bring money in!" I'm exhausted. Never once did he say on day when he had no appointments, "Hey, keep the kids home today" or "I'll do the grocery shopping and cook dinner". Never offered to lighten my load. When he was done working for the day, he was done with everything including helping with the kids and house. Meanwhile, I was stressed out. 

See where I'm going? The resentment I had was huge. 13 years of it. Finally, one day I told I can't go on like this, like a chicken with it's head cut off. I felt like he was making just enough money so he still had time to play on the computer, workout and play golf, (actually he had said as much), when I didn't have time for any of those things. So I told him I was quitting my job. It was his turn to be a stressed out. So I quit and he had no choice but to step up. 

Maybe my story is your wife's story.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Froggi said:


> Is the job market where she can just get another job that pays as much or more?
> 
> Would you be willing to let her have a break, say for 3 months?
> 
> Be truthful here: Does your family mistreat her or badmouth her? Do you expect her to take **** and eat it and ask for more? Because if the extended family mistreats the parents they do not deserve a relationship with the kid.


If she worked in the financial services industry, holding out to match her old income is unrealistic. It was hammered in the recession and has not recovered completely. I was in the industry making really good money with terrific benefits (15% retirement, over a month of vacation per year) and got laid off. If I waited to match my old salary, I'd still be waiting.

She needs to work, or if her job prospects are terrible (i.e. she cannot earn more than the cost of getting to work) she needs to acquire new skills. It must be one or the other - no sitting around and marking time (which will only make it harder to find a job later when she has to explain what she has done while between jobs).

As far as the family goes, I have a hunch they might be turned off to her and she is amplifying that dislike. Lazy, selfish people aren't very popular under ordinary circumstances. Then, consider that she is hurting a loved one, and I am completely unsurprised they don't get along.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, soccermom2three brought up an interesting point of view.

OP, how much help have you been to your wife over the course of your marriage in all the areas to do with raising your daughter, keeping the house, paying the bills etc (prior to her being laid off)? Did you do your share or has she traditionally done the lion's share? Maybe she's burnt out.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Before my husband had the job that he has now, (which fits him to a T btw), he worked for himself from the house. As much as I love him, he does not have the personality for this because he is a procrastinator.
> 
> During these years, I was working my butt off. Super stressful and busy job. I was totally in charge of the kids too. Getting them ready in the morning, taking them to the grandparents for daycare, working all day, then picking them up, driving home, making dinner, cleaning the house, etc. He would NEVER offer to help or take the initiative, I always had to ask. After a while I just got tired of asking every single time.
> 
> ...





It's not her story. But I sure understand your frustration. When one is not or simply quits trying, it takes a toll.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

breeze said:


> Well, soccermom2three brought up an interesting point of view.
> 
> OP, how much help have you been to your wife over the course of your marriage in all the areas to do with raising your daughter, keeping the house, paying the bills etc (prior to her being laid off)? Did you do your share or has she traditionally done the lion's share? Maybe she's burnt out.


It was previously a fair split. By all accounts. I have no problem in giving appropriate credit. She contributed.


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