# She's ruined me



## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Don't know where to start but I know I need some help. 

We have been together for five and a half years. Engaged since last October. 

We both used each other to leave unhappy marriages together, and had the many talks that we would never do the same to each other. 

Last year we bought a big house together. It was a foreclosure and took a lot of work from me, but now we have this perfect house that we always wanted and "living the dream", so I thought. 

Two weeks ago I happen to look at our cell phone usage and found she had at least double the amount of text than what I did. So I went online and looked at the phone usage in more detail. There it was, some strange number that she had more than three hundred text to. I was at work, on night shift, and left work immediately to go confront her. She denied nothing, as when I woke her up I was scrolling through her phone and seeing all the text, which included pictures of her half naked in the mirror that she was sending him. 

He, Billy, is from out of state, and she met him on some poker online game. He is a black guy and they had been talking for three weeks, constantly. She had come home and told me two weeks prior that she had some training for work that she could go to but it was out of state. I didn't bat an eye. I said of course you should go. So the night I confronted her, I said, "this guy is the training you were going to, huh". She shook her head yes. 

My world went spinning. She didn't even seem remorseful. We talked and she said she needed to take this trip and was unsure about us. Because I was sick and had my world falling apart, I told her to go, if she thought this was something she could get out of her system and come home and work on us. She said she did think we could work on things, but she needed to go on this trip. I know how stupid it is, but through a lot more talking I let her go. I told her if this was just some sexcapade that she needed to get out of her system and would come home and concentrate on us afterward, then fine, go. 

So she went. And when she came home, by this time I had lost ten lbs from being sickened over the entire thing, she continued to talk to him through text and calls. Two days after she had been home, I told her I couldn't keep going with her talking to him and building an emotional bond with him. So she said she could and would stop talking to him. I told her I wanted to see her text him explaining this, and she said she preferred to talk to him and explain it over the phone the next day. 

I allowed this, and they stopped for about twelve hours. Then the next night I was at work, I looked at the phone records and she had called him and tex him. Neither time did he answer. So I came home again and confronted her, in the middle of the night, and told her it was over. She cried and apologized and said she slipped. She said she wanted us. 

A lot of talking later, I told her she would have to delete the poker game, show me a text to him saying she couldn't talk to him any more and that she was going to work on us. She did both and deleted him from her contacts. The next 24 hours she showed distance from me, and her body language kept telling me she was checked out. 

We talked and I told her I could move forward with her but only if she was as dedicated to it as I was. She said she was and wanted to make us work, but her body language and the way she was answering was telling me different. But because I'm so stupidly in love with this woman, and not wanting to lose everything we have built together, I told her ok, let's work on it. 

Over the last 24 hours, all her body language showed me she is not into us anymore. I have to initiate any body contact and when I do, I feel nothing from her. This is totally messing up my head. 

We left today to go to her family reunion and it was bothering me so bad how distant she acts toward me. She doesn't seem sad, but there is no love towards me. So at the last minute I pulled her aside and told her how I was feeling and that I did not want to do this on my own. I told her if I was the only one trying, then we need to just end it. She was hesitant but said she didn't know if she could get it back, meaning her love for me. So I said then we're done. I turned the truck around and drove back home. She took her two kids and left to go to the reunion and my daughter and I stayed home. 

She was crying as she left and we both agreed not to talk to the children yet. Her kids, whom I love very much, are a 10 year old daughter and 8 year old boy. My daughter is 13. 

I'm so unbelievably devastated. My heart has never been hurt like this. I'm going to lose everything. We have this big beautiful house and in a perfect happy little subdivision. Admittedly, one of my biggest concerns is losing the house. There is no way I can afford it on my own. The house is in my name and she has a smaller more affordable house across town, that we happen to be renting out to my younger half sister. She'll have to evict them, and I'll be stuck here with a house I cannot afford and will probably go belly up on. I've worked so freaking hard for all this. For this perfect happy family that I thought we had...

So that's the short version of what's going on. I'm 38 and she 35. I'm so messed up right now, I don't even know how much of this is making sense. I know I'm leaving out a lot of details, but don't want to talk everyones ear off. I found this site while she was gone on her weekend with Billy. This place has been a very good thing for me, just for killing time and trying to learn stuff. 

Not sure what to do. So afraid of losing her. I'm so sad right now, I wonder how I will ever move forward. 

Thanks for listening.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

From what you've said about this woman, she's not wife material - as her first husband discovered. Was she still married when you two started going out together? 

Anyway, cut her loose. If your sister is single she maybe can move in with you and help to pay for the house though rent. 

And if you've been reading here, then you must realize that the way you handled her affair devalued you in her eyes. 

Never allow your gf to go see someone else to see if she can come back to you. If she with you she's with you - if she even is thinking of someone else - then "hit the bricks - life is short"


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow,

You made a major mistake in letting her go see this guy and further progress the A and her connection to this POS.

You shouldn't be surprised that going to bang him has helped her to detach further from your marriage.

But I have to ask you, why would you want to stay with a person who openly wanted to leave your marriage to go have sex with some random guy she met online?

I'll bet your reasons would boil down to you love her so much.

You need to leave that mindset in the past. Thinking emotionally instead of logically at this time will end up crushing your spirit and self-esteem.

If you catch yourself thinking about what your marriage and your wife were like before, and how you just want to somehow find a way to get back there, stop yourself immediately.

What you thought your wife was like was a mirage. It only really existed in your head. The same is true of your marriage.

The reality of who she is and what you truly had is the situation you are in right now.

Expose her actions to both of your families and serve her divorce papers now. Refuse to communicate with her about anything but kid concerns and the divorce.

If she snaps out of the 'fog' of the affair and comes begging back with true remorse for what she has done, then and only then should you consider if you want to try to rebuild a new relationship with her.

The old one is dead. 

If it comes to the point where she is remorseful and you want to try reconciliation, make sure you demand and enforce strict boundaries and conditions you want so this never happens again.

As for the POS, find out who he is and if he has a W or SO, and then expose to them as well. He wanted to help crap all over your life and relationship, so return the favor by destroying his world as well.


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## MicroStorm (Aug 10, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> We talked and *she said she needed to take this trip* and was unsure about us. Because I was sick and had my world falling apart, I told her to go, if she thought this was something she could get out of her system and come home and work on us. She said she did think we could work on things, but she needed to go on this trip. I know how stupid it is, but through a lot more talking I let her go. *I told her if this was just some sexcapade that she needed to get out of her system* and would come home and concentrate on us afterward, then fine, go.


Seriously, why would you put up with this? This is absolutely repulsive of her to do this, and the fact that you basically condone it, either out of fear of losing her or internal weakness, is even more disturbing.

I could _maybe_ understand or justify your position if you were younger or if you two were married. However, you're in your mid-30s and have been married before, so you should be all the wiser at this age and not put up with this BS at all. If she had been remorseful after you caught her in the long-distance texting, I could see that it would be possible to work things out, but the fact that she went cross-country to meet and have trysts with a stranger, while still engaged to you is vomit-inducing. She doesn't love you, and don't think these problems will go away if you get married.

Since you're only engaged, you have no commitment to one another, and there are no serious legal ramifications of splitting ways, other than perhaps the house. You mentioned that you can't afford the house on your own, but unfortunately, this is one of those things life threw at you and hopefully you will learn from this mistake, both in your personal and financial life. I know it's hard, but hopefully with the support here and in your own introspection, you'll find the courage you need to leave while you can and rebuild your life.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

First you'll get a lot of advice here soon. Most great, some not so great. But all from people who've been there. Pick and choose and weigh it carefully, but don't let your emotions color your decisions. The BS can be in a "fog"just as much as the WS. Second, you can't be afraid of losing her!!! That only leads to cake eating on her part and you becoming a doormat. The only way I got through (so far) was by leading my wife go, putting my foot down and setting up the boundaries I needed followed. I loved her very much and didn't want to lose her but I couldn't live with being number two. I couldn't live with her having a number two. Luckily she came out of her fog and we are reconciling. It may be hard but you have to have her make a choice, and even then the ultimate choice is yours. If she's is not fully committed, I mean 100%, then it work not work. Could luck and sorry you're here.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

No sympathy here... you get what you deserve. But you could always have your sis move in with you to help out with the bills.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> From what you've said about this woman, she's not wife material - as her first husband discovered. Was she still married when you two started going out together?
> 
> Anyway, cut her loose. If your sister is single she maybe can move in with you and help to pay for the house though rent.
> 
> ...


Yes we were both still married when we started, however, I was already starting my divorce at the time. I leaned on her through it, and she loved my attention so much, she left her husband for us. Though she was very unhappy in her marriage. 

I understand that I need to drop her, but it hurts so so bad. In every other way, we have been so happy. I have to admit though, I have been lacking in the bedroom and she has been complaining about that for the last couple of years. I mean we still had sex 1 to 2 times a week, but she wanted more. It also upset her that I was regularly looking at porn. Which I regret now and told her I would drop. But too late I guess. 

I wish I could fix us, but I know that is probably not likely now. Damn this hurts.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Yes you'll have alot of self-proclaimed alpha males and females on this forum who will question your manhood and basiclly infer you are a pansy for letting your WW do what she did. 

Do not let them get to you. But you do need to stand up for yourself. Your wife will only ruin you to the extent you allow her to. 

Divorce her and do the 180. Someone here can provide the link. Move forward and don't let her suck you back in. She cheated on her last husband with you and now she's done the same to you. She is a serial cheat. That is what she is, and she will never stop moving from man to man.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Wouldn't matter if you forbid her to go on the trip or talk to the guy, she was checked out.

As others have said, this one was doomed from the start, you're both cheaters and there's a certain mentality involved with a person who will have an affair during a bad marriage rather than end it and of course you both qualify for that.

It's over, good riddance to her, work on yourself so maybe you can have a good relationship with someone else one day and as someone else said all is not lost perhaps your younger half sister can move in with you and you will have that additional rental income towards the mortgage.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the responding so quick. I really need you guys right now. I'm so fragile. 

I already know I majorly screwed up by letting her go on the trip. I was so out of my mind I couldn't think clearly. I need to end this, but can't help hoping right now that we could change everything and make it. 

My sister is married and has two kids. I did think about asking them if they want to move in for a while to help with stuff, but I got to say, my sister and I don't always get along the best. 

I thought about looking online for a roommate and see how that goes. I would really like to try to keep the house, just will be very tough to do. 

This is going to be so hard to face all the friends and family. Everyone kind of looked up to us. I'm normally a very strong man that has a lot of respect from friends and family, and I am usually the alpha male, or at least the leader of the pact. So that whoe situation scares me as well. Losing all the respect. 

I have told her sister, but no one else yet. I think I want to tell her parents though. They will be very upset with her, but I want het to face the music so to speak. 

Thanks everyone. I know I need my butt kicked a bit to get my head straight.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

You only lose respect as a man if you tolerate this s**t and act like a doormat.

Respect can't be taken from you.

You can only give it away by acting like a wimp.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

You're shocked right now, and that's normal. But you will pull through this. Your wife killed the marriage you had, and the man that you were. Give up all hope of having a better past. The new man inside your skin is stronger than he thinks he is, smarter then he was, and in short order will find that inner flame that will burn this pain away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

If your wife has told you she does not know if she will ever love you like she did before then it's a lost cause. I didn't read anything indicating that you provoked this. And she is still saying that she doesn't love you anymore. So let her go and have the life she wants. She will continue doing this to every man she marries. 

Didn't you say that you both "helped" each other out of bad marriages? How "bad" was her last marriage? I take it you both were having an affair and decided to leave your marriages?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If she decides to come back to you, you should think twice about a woman who doesn't give a second thought to cheating, either on her husband (as she did with you) or on her betrothed (as she did on you). 

As the saying goes: If she'll cheat with you - she'll cheat on you.


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## MicroStorm (Aug 10, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> If your wife...


A few of the replies have referred to her as his "wife", but from I gathered from the original post, they are only engaged at this point. Surely leaving will have emotional ramifications, but at least there isn't the legal turmoil of divorce.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Just some more info to what I believe led to this; We have roll played in the bedroom and pretended I was another man. This was kinky and a turn on for both of us. I know, I'm screwed up in that matter I guess. And over time, the fantasy turned into me being a black guy taking her. That turned her on as well as it did me. 

While playing in the bedroom, we would fantasize scenarios with this a lot. However, I never wanted it a reality, and we always made it clear it would only ever be a fantasy. So perhaps that fed her to this weekend trip. 

I use to believe, and was confident enough with myself, that I didn't mind her having this fantasy, and again, it somehow turned me on too. But I never thought anything would move from the roll playing to her actually doing it. 

I'm not some sicko, so I hope that's not what everyone thinks. I'm 6'6", somewhat attractive, and typically a pretty strong man. I just never minded fantasizing in the bedroom. I hope everyone doesn't think I'm some freak. 

I guess this poison was brought on by both of us. I don't know


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh, and we are not married. Just engaged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Oh, and we are not married. Just engaged.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So ditch the *****.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

But get the ring back first. Leverage her sins, guilt her, fcuk with her head all you need to, but get the ring and sell it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Microstorm,

Good catch. I missed that in the shock of reading that he OK'd his SO going away on a sex vacation.

I will definitely make separating himself from her easier legally.

All he needs to do is find roommates since the house is in his name. She is entitled to nothing.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

I wouldn't put any blame on yourself for any fantasy or roleplay you two shared together. Many couples that are happy and devoted to each other do the same or similar things.

You just have the misfortune of having a SO who wanted to take something you shared and then betray you with it.

That's all on her.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Microstorm,
> All he needs to do is find roommates since the house is in his name. She is entitled to nothing.


That's not necessarily true.

If she put money into it she can make a claim for it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

lenzi,

I stand corrected. You are right. She would be entitled to receive back any money she put into the house.

My major point is that she would have no legal claim against the house as an asset.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Get tested for STD's NOW!
She is totally toxic to you and has no problem humiliating and disrespecting you in the worst possible way. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Get the ring back and move away from her as soon as possible.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

She didn't really put money into the house. But she did put the fence and some of thecarpeting on her credit cards. but I don't believe she is looking to get anything back from it. I told her the other night that she was out of luck on that stuff because she was throwing everything away, and she didn't disagree with me. Sucks though cause we also have all the kitchen appliances on her card too. I guess I can give her money towards that stuff, but it will have to be payments
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Been there! Done that! Hurts doesn't it? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

See now if you were married, she'd be entitled to half.

Perfect example of how marriage is a financial contract and one to be avoided due to lack of advantages and lots of potential pitfalls.

Be glad this all came down prior to the vows. Otherwise you'd be in a much dire position.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Oh, and we are not married. Just engaged.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then cut your ties


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Use the ring money to pay her for the appliances. Her boyfriend out of state probably already has his own.

As for any so-called _sexual_ "alphas" being on this site who might be available to comment, I haven't encountered any yet. After all, the real alphas are too busy getting laid to post. And while you may still think you're an alpha, every action you've taken indicates gamma, at best.

Several standard fail behaviors are on exhibit here:

1. If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
2. What goes around, comes around.
3. Women respond sexually to high testosterone males vs. low testosterone males
4. Porn gives you a limp tool when it counts.
5. Wittol behavior and associated role-playing will change your marriage forever by giving your male rank a blow from which it will never recover.
6. Interracial fetish by dominant male must be played out IRL

The good news is that you are not married and can evict her in short order. Get her a one-way Greyhound ticket to her boyfriend's and alert the father of her children. You owe him that, at least.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Been there! Done that! Hurts doesn't it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, yes my friend it does. Lol. I've never experienced pain like this. Crushing me right now.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Use the ring money to pay her for the appliances.


I missed the part where he said he got the ring back.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Cut her loose and find an honest woman. You have no value in her eyes, since you gave her a green light to f$ck someone else. And in the future, NEVER turn down sex with a women that wants you so you can watch porn. No good will come of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Use the ring money to pay her for the appliances. Her boyfriend out of state probably already has his own.
> 
> As for any so-called _sexual_ "alphas" being on this site who might be available to comment, I haven't encountered any yet. After all, the real alphas are too busy getting laid to post. And while you may still think you're an alpha, every action you've taken indicates gamma, at best.
> 
> ...


I know I'm not, or haven't been, alpha in our relationship. I guess what I meant was that I am typically a leader in everything else I do. I am a boss at my work, and I have always been the leader and looked up to by friends and family. I agree I have made a lot of poor choices with my love life and porn, and that has been unhealthy for me. I screwed up. 

I hope I can make myself healthy again. I think I should probably go to counseling. I have had a lower sex drive for a while, and have struggled with my confidence in the bedroom. I'm not lacking in the downstairs department, I guess average, so I don't know why I have lost my mojo so to speak. 

My head is spinning. Thanks for the advice.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Cut her loose and find an honest woman. You have no value in her eyes, since you gave her a green light to f$ck someone else. And in the future, NEVER turn down sex with a women that wants you so you can watch porn. No good will come of this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Completely agreed. Tough lesson learned.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Yes, yes my friend it does. Lol. I've never experienced pain like this. Crushing me right now.


What ended her last marriage. Did she cheat on her ex before she met you? Was there mutual adultery going on? How long was she married and was that her first marriage?

What I'm getting at is, what is her pattern?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> I know I'm not, or haven't been, alpha in our relationship.


It's too late for this one, and you're paying for that. Don't waste the lesson, because its a danged expensive one to learn. At the same time, she was damaged goods to begin with, so you were playing with a short deck.



oklahoma1 said:


> I guess what I meant was that I am typically a leader in everything else I do. I am a boss at my work, and I have always been the leader and looked up to by friends and family.


You tend to be a social alpha, that's excellent. Now for the sexual side of socio-sexual: How often do women, other than your GF, come sit in your lap at work or strike up conversations at the grocery store?

If the answer is that it's been a few years, you've got work to do.



oklahoma1 said:


> I agree I have made a lot of poor choices with my love life and porn, and that has been unhealthy for me. I screwed up.


The only porn you should be watching is the porn you see on the TV over your wife's shoulder. Get my drift?

How old are you, again? Also, what's your workout routine?



oklahoma1 said:


> I hope I can make myself healthy again. I think I should probably go to counseling.


You can be healthy again. Probably the biggest step in that direction will be when this woman gets on the bus. I think counseling is overrated. My views are that hormones are calling the shots here and no "talking cure" pusher is going to buy into that. Have you had your testosterone checked?



oklahoma1 said:


> I have had a lower sex drive for a while, and have struggled with my confidence in the bedroom.


Okay, this meshes with the wittol thing. After 25, T starts drifting downward and we start porking out, raising estrogen. This is why it's only middle age and older guys (for the most part) who get into that wittol business. What's your lifting program, again?




oklahoma1 said:


> I'm not lacking in the downstairs department, I guess average, so I don't know why I have lost my mojo so to speak.


See above.



oklahoma1 said:


> My head is spinning. Thanks for the advice.


You can deal with this. There is another guy on here with a similar story, only worse, who just wants to sit around and engage in magic thinking. You can deal with it and come out better, much better on the other side.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I couldn't agree more with what Mac said. 

Listen to him, young one...don't make these mistakes again.

As far as your fiance, I have only this to say. Run Forest, run!!!


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks mach. 
I'm 38. I'm not too out of shape but haven't been back to the gym yet either. Thinking about it but been too depressed to get started. I know I need to turn this into anger and start working on myself. 
She just returned from her reunion and we talked. I told her she is a bad person and it's over. I told her I didn't deserve this and I needed to just move on. I also got the ring back. 
I have a dr appointment for Monday, and from the stuff I've read on here I've decided to get my testosterone checked out. I want to get my mojo back with or without her. 

I've never had a hard time talking to women and have been considered quite the flirt in the past. Something she was always insanely keels about, even though I've never crossed any lines while I've been with her. I had to retrain myself how to not be so friendly or flirtatious since I've been with her because of her lower self esteem or jealousy. That's crazy, isn't it? 

Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oklahoma, know that my hb is almost 58 and he does a darn good job in the bedroom. He's in very good physical shape, lifts and runs, and that is a must for both sexes as they age. You are plenty young enough to get it together in that arena (good thing cause I'm your age-39). You have lots to look forward to 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Should I tell her parents? Her dad will be furious with her. Doesn't help that he is also old school and does not like interracial couples. I do not agree with his opinions on the subject, I don't want anyone thinking I am racist, but I wanted to point out his dismay that will come from this. She is afraid of me telling her parents, because she already knows I've told her sister. But I think she should have to face the music so to speak. What do you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You've decided it's over. Now their going to ask. 

If they do, tell the truth. If not move on. 

Doesn't matter who he is. He's another man that your EX gave herself to.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> oklahoma, know that my hb is almost 58 and he does a darn good job in the bedroom. He's in very good physical shape, lifts and runs, and that is a must for both sexes as they age. You are plenty young enough to get it together in that arena (good thing cause I'm your age-39). You have lots to look forward to
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. I haven't been all that bad in the bedroom, I have my moments with her that I have been a stud, even in the past few months. Though we did get into a routine, and through this she told me it had gotten to be too much of the same thing every time. I also always make sure that she finishes. I have always been very giving in bed. And I have never been the minute man either. It was opposite for me, looking back that was probably from too much self gratification and porn. Which I regret profusely now. Butthe last few times we've messed around, I couldn't performbecause my head was so messed up. I wanted to show her who the "man" was when she got home from her trip, but that back fired because the thoughts of her with the other man had burried itself in my head, so I couldn't even get it up. How sad, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Thanks. I haven't been all that bad in the bedroom, I have my moments with her that I have been a stud, even in the past few months. Though we did get into a routine, and through this she told me it had gotten to be too much of the same thing every time. I also always make sure that she finishes. I have always been very giving in bed. And I have never been the minute man either. It was opposite for me, looking back that was probably from too much self gratification and porn. Which I regret profusely now. Butthe last few times we've messed around, I couldn't performbecause my head was so messed up. I wanted to show her who the "man" was when she got home from her trip, but that back fired because the thoughts of her with the other man had burried itself in my head, so I couldn't even get it up. How sad, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well that's probably why she wanted more.....you gave her something to look forward to. I think it's normal to feel a little inadequate when there's been an affair. Women feel like that too. All the mord reason to move on to someone who has no history of deceit with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Thanks mach.
> I'm 38. I'm not too out of shape but haven't been back to the gym yet either. Thinking about it but been too depressed to get started. I know I need to turn this into anger and start working on myself.


Just make the lifestyle change for yourself. You need to do it for health reasons, the hot body that turns on the girls is just a side effect of good health. I personally like HIT training. Great results with less than an hour in the gym weekly.



oklahoma1 said:


> She just returned from her reunion and we talked. I told her she is a bad person and it's over. I told her I didn't deserve this and I needed to just move on. I also got the ring back.


I admire your decisive action. Next time, always be the take charge guy.



oklahoma1 said:


> I have a dr appointment for Monday, and from the stuff I've read on here I've decided to get my testosterone checked out. I want to get my mojo back with or without her.


Don't let them snow you on the numbers, which most doctors like to do. Be prepared and read this.



oklahoma1 said:


> I've never had a hard time talking to women and have been considered quite the flirt in the past. Something she was always insanely keels about, even though I've never crossed any lines while I've been with her. I had to retrain myself how to not be so friendly or flirtatious since I've been with her because of her lower self esteem or jealousy. That's crazy, isn't it?


Not at all. It's the natural course of a long term relationship. Woman is attracted to alpha characteristics, but wants to shut those down to ensure he's not sharing his material resources (and prime sperm) with other women, once she's got her hooks in. With her man's alpha characteristics successfully muted, she will find those attractors elsewhere, not even realizing what she is doing. It's the standard marriage template, although most women don't cheat, they just cut off sex as their mate becomes increasingly sexually repellant. That's because female sexual attraction is not a function of rational thought, it's limbic. In the future, learn to use that to your advantage.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

LostViking said:


> Yes you'll have alot of self-proclaimed alpha males and females on this forum who will question your manhood and basiclly infer you are a pansy for letting your WW do what she did.


Doesn't matter what we view him as...it matters what SHE views him as. And after letting her go off to screw some guy and not "protecting his turf", her view of him is going to be extremely low. And rightfully so I'm afraid to say. Guys who "have it going on" and are self secure and confident do not allow their women to see other men. They walk away from her when it happens, and make her come groveling back on hands and knees...if they even give her that chance.

He DID NOT cause this...but he COULD HAVE put a stop to it. 

Unless you're in an open relationship, no woman is going to respect a man that allows her to sleep with someone else against his own wishes. That's just...bad.

OP, if you're faced with this situation ever again, DO NOT do the same thing. You didn't start the fire, but you did throw gas on it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Should I tell her parents? Her dad will be furious with her. Doesn't help that he is also old school and does not like interracial couples. I do not agree with his opinions on the subject, I don't want anyone thinking I am racist, but I wanted to point out his dismay that will come from this.


A lot of people on this forum have a hard time frankly discussing the intersection of race, sex, and interracial fetishes, some of which seem to be enjoying a big fad in certain low testosterone males. It gets mentioned a lot by OPs and pretty much squelched by the thought police. I think it's just like any other attractor that pulls someone out of their marriage and ought to be addressed. You aren't reconciling, so it's not an issue.



oklahoma1 said:


> She is afraid of me telling her parents, because she already knows I've told her sister. But I think she should have to face the music so to speak. What do you think?


Actually, Anchorwatch is exactly right, don't say anything to them unless they specifically ask you about that question. Would you expect them to? If so, there may be some history here. KWIM? If you were to bring it up, it would make you look malicious. No need for that.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I think anyone who allows that stuff to go on in a marriage is bound to get burned in the end. I've learned that the hard way too. Even if a woman allows a man to get too horned up about sleeping with other women, the man might want to take further action either with or without the wife, especially if he thinks he can get away with it. And vice versa. 

You and your GF played on that fantasy in the bedroom, and now she feels entitled in some way to go and experiment in that area. Being that she is the insecure, controlling type. It seems pretty straight forward to me.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

LostViking said:


> What ended her last marriage. Did she cheat on her ex before she met you? Was there mutual adultery going on? How long was she married and was that her first marriage?
> 
> What I'm getting at is, what is her pattern?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her last marriage, and only marriage, ended ended because of me. I didn't ask her to leave, she pursued me heavily, the whole time telling me how loveless her marriage was. So eventually she told her cousin about us, whom she new would tell her husband, and then they were done. To her defense, her x-husband was really quite lame. But looking back, he didn't deserve what she did to him. (I've already thrown this in her face a couple times, how she randomly screwed him over and now screwing me over)

She did not cheat on him while she was with him. I think they were together roughly six or seven years. 

I was married but had already started my divorce. (my daughter was involved, so where I live the courts make you wait six months before you can complete a divorce) I told my x-wife that I was talking to someone and even though we were waiting for our divorce, she took it as cheating, and tried to tell everyone that. Looking back, I wish I had waited till the divorce was complete because it was liking throwing gas on a fire. Everything went really bad with the x after I told her. Not too smart on my part. 

Her pattern, which I have always had a sliver of worry about, is she can't refuse the attention of another man. If a man pays her any attention, she is drawn to it, well, if it's a man she finds attractive. She has a low self esteem. That has always been evident to me just from the crazy jealousy she had with me. Honestly, I've never done anything to give her a reason to be suspicious of me, and yet she was always insane jealous. That used to cause some fights, because I thought she was crazy. 

But yeah, she can't seem to resist when another attractive man gives her attention. So that is another part of the problem I guess.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

donny64 said:


> Doesn't matter what we view him as...it matters what SHE views him as. And after letting her go off to screw some guy and not "protecting his turf", her view of him is going to be extremely low. And rightfully so I'm afraid to say. Guys who "have it going on" and are self secure and confident do not allow their women to see other men. They walk away from her when it happens, and make her come groveling back on hands and knees...if they even give her that chance.
> 
> He DID NOT cause this...but he COULD HAVE put a stop to it.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

How could he have stopped it? Handcuffed her to the bannister? How do you keep someone who is determined to defy you from running off and doing something. 

Threat of divorce and exposure would not have stopped her. Could he have been more GrrrrrrrrrAlpha? Maybe. 

Wouldn't have made any difference. She wanted to go screw that guy and she did. Now the OP is doing the right thing. He's divorcing her. So cut him some slack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

donny64 said:


> Doesn't matter what we view him as...it matters what SHE views him as. And after letting her go off to screw some guy and not "protecting his turf", her view of him is going to be extremely low. And rightfully so I'm afraid to say. Guys who "have it going on" and are self secure and confident do not allow their women to see other men. They walk away from her when it happens, and make her come groveling back on hands and knees...if they even give her that chance.
> 
> He DID NOT cause this...but he COULD HAVE put a stop to it.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. Even though your observation cuts a bit, I agree. Because we had played fantasy so much in the bedroom, I thought, well, maybe this is just the fantasy being played out. I was blind with hurt and thought maybe I could be in an open type relationship. I thought I could be secure enough. But then the fact that she cheated behind my back ruined it for me. And the reality of it sickened me. As I said before, it was always just a fantasy with me and her. 

I realize now that letting her go off for the weekend was probably the deathblow to our relationship. It's just that I actually got that desperate for a minute to not lose everything, that I thought, it's just sex and I can deal with it. Very poor decision on my part. I wish I could take it back. 

She cried at our last conversation and said she would do anything, even agreed to go to counseling, which two days ago she said she would not do. I told her she had done enough already and her respect for me has been made painfully and blatantly clear. I told her she was crap, I am a better person than her, and that I would end up happy and better off. I told her she has serious issues and was likely going to have a sad and lonely life. I never raised my voice, I spoke calm, but really let her know how f'd up she is. 

She cried really hard and said "stop, I know, I'm a terrible person". And even with all her tears and whining, I looked right at her and said "yep, you sure are". Then I said, "now give me my ring back". And she did. I told her I was leaving for a while and I turned and walked out. 

She went to her parents house, cause after I been gone an hour and driving back home, I drove by and seen her van there. She is very afraid of me talking with her parents. 

Thanks


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Next time you play in the bedroom, get the chick to roleplay as a smoking hot 18 year old cheerleader with sculpted thighs and an ass you could bounce a quarter off. Then light a few candles, sacrifice a chicken maybe, and see what happens. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Easy. You don't start a relationship with someone who is married in the first place. You don't let someone walk all over you. You set boundaries. And after all is said and done, if that person still feels the need to cheat...kick them to the curb, like OP did.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

You are paying for your sins. As much as I feel for you OP, this is Karma. 

Maybe you and her ex-husband should go have a beer. Better yet, write him a letter of apology telling him how she turned around and screwed you over too. It will give him closure and you a little closure as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

LostViking said:


> You are paying for your sins. As much as I feel for you OP, this Karma.
> 
> Maybe you and her ex-husband should go have a beer. Better yet, write him a letter of apology telling him how she turned around and screwed you over too. It will give him closure and you a little closure as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't actually believe in karma, do you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

LostViking said:


> You are paying for your sins. As much as I feel for you OP, this Karma.
> 
> Maybe you and her ex-husband should go have a beer. Better yet, write him a letter of apology telling him how she turned around and screwed you over too. It will give him closure and you a little closure as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought of that, having a beer with him and telling him how I got burned too. I thought how that would make him happy, and at this point I don't mind him having the last laugh. He is re married already and doing fine. But it probably would make him feel good to know I got burned too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> You don't actually believe in karma, do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I do but then I believe in everything elves, dragons, angels, demons, Shiva, Buddha, Allah, Bast, Kokopelli, Spirits, unicorns oh and the fabled ones knows as a good man and a good women. If you can believe in love and trust when you can't see them or touch them then I find it is easy to believe in anything really. And yes I do believe in all those things I try to believe in at least 5 impossible things every day. Makes for some crazy friendships but I like out of the box people.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> I agree with you. Even though your observation cuts a bit, I agree. Because we had played fantasy so much in the bedroom, I thought, well, maybe this is just the fantasy being played out. I was blind with hurt and thought maybe I could be in an open type relationship. I thought I could be secure enough. But then the fact that she cheated behind my back ruined it for me. And the reality of it sickened me. As I said before, it was always just a fantasy with me and her.
> 
> I realize now that letting her go off for the weekend was probably the deathblow to our relationship. It's just that I actually got that desperate for a minute to not lose everything, that I thought, it's just sex and I can deal with it. Very poor decision on my part. I wish I could take it back.
> 
> ...



Strange as this may be since it looks like you have a choice what would you like to do. Divorce and find someone else and take your chances or Reconciliation and try to make a better relationship with her? I do not advocate either option but many stories on here are of worse just depends on if you are willing to start all over with her and see if you could create something NEW out of the wreckage of the old.

You do state that the relationship was bad for a time if you could go back to when it was good would you keep her? You might also want to look up Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Affaircare she is very insightful as she has been both a BS and WS. It would at least be worth a PM to get her to give you her take on your situation. Like I said if nothing else it would just confirm where you are.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> You don't actually believe in karma, do you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In a way. I have short fingers and in my culture we have a legend of a seal woman, a Selkie, who was captured by a human man, held hostage, and had children by him. But he killed her seal husband, and in her revenge she cursed all the human men on Kalsoy island and they all went mad and ran down to the cliffs and jumped into the sea and perished. I'm dark haired andshort fingered, and Faroese kids like me were always told we were her decendents.

The OP's story reminds me of that legend. Yes...I believe we suffer the most from the pain we inflict on others.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> But looking back, *he didn't deserve what she did to him*. (I've already thrown this in her face a couple times, how she randomly screwed him over and now screwing me over)


What about what *you* did to him?

Man, you are learning nothing, nothing.
How can you expect from anyone to take ownership from their choices when you don't?

And you are seriusly considering going to share a beer with this fellow (that you qualify as ''lame'') to tell him what? that you also got burned? what about giving him a genuine apology?


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

CEL said:


> Strange as this may be since it looks like you have a choice what would you like to do. Divorce and find someone else and take your chances or Reconciliation and try to make a better relationship with her? I do not advocate either option but many stories on here are of worse just depends on if you are willing to start all over with her and see if you could create something NEW out of the wreckage of the old.
> 
> You do state that the relationship was bad for a time if you could go back to when it was good would you keep her? You might also want to look up Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Affaircare she is very insightful as she has been both a BS and WS. It would at least be worth a PM to get her to give you her take on your situation. Like I said if nothing else it would just confirm where you are.


As crazy as it seems, in all honesty, I would rather work it out. Of course I would want to fix my problems first, no more porn and taking care of myself. If we make it or not, I'm fixibg that. I want to get back to being my old confident self that could be pretty damn good in bed. 

But for me to try to get over this and fix things, I need her to come crawling. I couldn't do it unless I thought she felt true remorse. She is already poutting around me right now, but it's not enough. I need to somehowget the upper hand again and see her beg. I don't want to make her beg and don't get off on that type of thing, but I need to see the sincerity in her. I can be a very mean person, strong and stern, but I can also be very forgiving. I have a hard time holding on to hate most of the time. I honestly think if I truly felt she had remorse and regret and honestly needed me and wanted to make it work, I could forgive and almost forget. Is that crazy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

LostViking said:


> In a way. I have short fingers and in my culture we have a legend of a seal woman, a Selkie, who was captured by a human man, held hostage, and had children by him. But he killed her seal husband, and in her revenge she cursed all the human men on Tavoy island and they all went mad and ran down to the cliffs and jumped into the sea and perished. I'm dark haired andshort fingered, and Faroese kids like me were always told we were her decendents.
> 
> The OP's story reminds me of that legend. Yes...I believe we suffer from the most from the pain we inflict on others.


That's an interesting fable. I think that if we suffer pain from such actions, it's something of a choice. That guilt we carry around for some god, or moral code, or mental construct. imho, there is no karma, no one out there watching over us, balancing the scales.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Acabado said:


> What about what *you* did to him?
> 
> Man, you are learning nothing, nothing.
> How can you expect from anyone to take ownership from their choices when you don't?
> ...


I have apologized to him before. I told him he could come over and take one pure hard shot at me and I wouldn't do anything. That was when he found out, and he knows I could beat hiss arse, but I swore to him I would take one really solid shot and walk away. He passed on the offer.

Sorry if I sound like I'm not learning anything. Please explain. I'm trying, but I'm not sure what you mean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> As crazy as it seems, in all honesty, I would rather work it out. Of course I would want to fix my problems first, no more porn and taking care of myself. If we make it or not, I'm fixibg that. I want to get back to being my old confident self that could be pretty damn good in bed.
> 
> But for me to try to get over this and fix things, I need her to come crawling. I couldn't do it unless I thought she felt true remorse. She is already poutting around me right now, but it's not enough. I need to somehowget the upper hand again and see her beg. I don't want to make her beg and don't get off on that type of thing, but I need to see the sincerity in her. I can be a very mean person, strong and stern, but I can also be very forgiving. I have a hard time holding on to hate most of the time. I honestly think if I truly felt she had remorse and regret and honestly needed me and wanted to make it work, I could forgive and almost forget. Is that crazy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You need to contact the person I suggested she is offline right now but she is online every day. She does counseling and has a very good website if you want to fix this she can help BOTH of you. Send the PM and until she gets back to you take a break ask your girl for some time to process things and that NO option is off the table. Seriously making any decision right now it NOT a good idea. All I ask is you send the PM and wait till you talk to her at most a few hours. She really can help you I have seen her help dozens of couples on this forum get a BETTER relationship just give it a few hours after the PM and try to refrain from lashing out at your girl just ask for some time to process. If you have even a 10% percent want to make this work then wait till you talk to her. Please for yourself and you child just send the PM and go silent for awhile from your girl. She really can help you. You go nothing to lose you win either way.

The reason for asking for you to stop talking to your girl for some time is because you are hurting and you will just do damage by lashing out at her. I know you feel that she deserves it but at this point you are only hurting yourself. Like I said just ask her for a day to process and then that you will talk to her about where you both sit. Don't decide on anything right now just send the PM and talk to Affaircare.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Why not a heartfelt apology AND a beer?


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> I thought of that, having a beer with him and telling him how I got burned too. I thought how that would make him happy, and at this point I don't mind him having the last laugh. He is re married already and doing fine. But it probably would make him feel good to know I got burned too
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And the point of doing that would be what exactly? You feel humiliated to make him feel better? Who gives a sh!t about him. Have some self respect. You posted that if she wanted to work it out, you'd agree. You're not even married! This chick is dead weight, sure to screw you over time and again, but you're all too ready to get in line for seconds. If I wasn't married to my WW, I'd have kicked her ass to the curb. Still considering it. Your fiancee is getting older, less fertile. Men your age have tons of options, while hers are dwindling. Shove her out into the cold world, man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think this thing we call Karma exists because when you do cr$ppy things with cr$ppy people cr$ppy things tend to happen to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> And the point of doing that would be what exactly? You feel humiliated to make him feel better? Who gives a sh!t about him. Have some self respect. You posted that if she wanted to work it out, you'd agree. You're not even married! This chick is dead weight, sure to screw you over time and again, but you're all too ready to get in line for seconds. If I wasn't married to my WW, I'd have kicked her ass to the curb. Still considering it. Your fiancee is getting older, less fertile. Men your age have tons of options, while hers are dwindling. Shove her out into the cold world, man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You've got a point..


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

CEL said:


> You need to contact the person I suggested she is offline right now but she is online every day. She does counseling and has a very good website if you want to fix this she can help BOTH of you. Send the PM and until she gets back to you take a break ask your girl for some time to process things and that NO option is off the table. Seriously making any decision right now it NOT a good idea. All I ask is you send the PM and wait till you talk to her at most a few hours. She really can help you I have seen her help dozens of couples on this forum get a BETTER relationship just give it a few hours after the PM and try to refrain from lashing out at your girl just ask for some time to process. If you have even a 10% percent want to make this work then wait till you talk to her. Please for yourself and you child just send the PM and go silent for awhile from your girl. She really can help you. You go nothing to lose you win either way.
> 
> The reason for asking for you to stop talking to your girl for some time is because you are hurting and you will just do damage by lashing out at her. I know you feel that she deserves it but at this point you are only hurting yourself. Like I said just ask her for a day to process and then that you will talk to her about where you both sit. Don't decide on anything right now just send the PM and talk to Affaircare.


I don't really know how to pm, or what it even means for that matter. (Private message?) I guess I'm quite the noob, but I don't understand most of the acronyms on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> I don't really know how to pm, or what it even means for that matter. (Private message?) I guess I'm quite the noob, but I don't understand most of the acronyms on here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No problem

1. click on the link

2. Under her picture of a heart "send a message"

3. Click on "send of message" then click on send a private message.

4. This will open an email like window for you to write in. Send her your story and open a dialog. When she responds you will see it in your right hand corner it will say you have notifications. Click on that and click on Private Messages.

Let me know if you are able to do it.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> And the point of doing that would be what exactly? You feel humiliated to make him feel better? Who gives a sh!t about him. Have some self respect. You posted that if she wanted to work it out, you'd agree. You're not even married! This chick is dead weight, sure to screw you over time and again, but you're all too ready to get in line for seconds. If I wasn't married to my WW, I'd have kicked her ass to the curb. Still considering it. Your fiancee is getting older, less fertile. Men your age have tons of options, while hers are dwindling. Shove her out into the cold world, man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I'll just leave him alone, he'll probably find out in time and his his own laugh. Maybe thats why I thought of having a beer with him, so I could man up and let him laugh to my face instead of behind my back. 

I went to the grocery store and had two differe women check me out, not hiding at all that they were checking me out, so I know I can find something new, but I need to get my mojo back for the bedroom. I would hate to have this stuff pop up in my head when going to be intimate with a new woman for the first time. The bad thing is, I don't want to be out playing the field. I'm happy in my home and what I thought was my good solid relationship. I wish I could have her, but I know she is trouble. Damn it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

CEL said:


> No problem
> 
> 1. click on the link
> 
> ...


Thanks. I think I'll try it. Unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, so it makes it harder to navigate through here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

By the way, can I sleep in the same bed with her tonight? I won't touch her, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping on the couch. If she wants to, I'm perfectly fine with it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

The worst you can do is to make any hasty decisions this is still very raw for you. So just take some time to yourself this will prevent others from hurting you and you from hurting others. Right now she is away from you so you have some free space to really just decompress from the situation. Until you can come up with a game plan to either work it out or to divorce like I said you have a girl with this person and you seem to still want to get with her so give it some time until wiser people than me give you some advice. If you do have contact just try to keep it civil so that you don't damage EITHER of your chances.

1. No name calling

2. No put downs

3. No harassment

4. No vindictive treatment


I know you are hurting and you are entitled to hurting and hurting her back I am a big believer in punching back. But in this case your hurt and anger will not be your friend instead they could hurt BOTH of your chances. Remember things said in anger are almost always regretted. Take a break from her and just wait for cooler heads.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> By the way, can I sleep in the same bed with her tonight? I won't touch her, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping on the couch. If she wants to, I'm perfectly fine with it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sure why not? Remember you have not decided one way or the other so do what comes natural. Again just understand that things were BAD before this on that you own 50% but her affair she owns 100%. But understand that you are going to be really raw and exposed right now your emotions are going to swing one way and the other just let them pass by for now until you get some time to come up with a plan. You know what happens when you start a battle without a plan right? So this is an important battle you NEED a plan before you act. Just continue with your life but tell her you need some time NOT talking about it or the relationship that you are not in a frame of mind to deal with it. And lets be honest you are going to be all over the place for awhile. I would tell her that you have not taken ANYTHING off the table whether reconciliation or divorce but the one thing you know is that the OLD relationship was BAD and that if you stay you want to work on making a GOOD one and that takes both of you willing to admit that it was BAD because of both of you. This still does not excuse the affair that is hers 100%.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> By the way, can I sleep in the same bed with her tonight? I won't touch her, but I sure as hell ain't sleeping on the couch. If she wants to, I'm perfectly fine with it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stop and ask yourself that question out loud. Can you? Who's permission do you need? You're going to sleep in your bed. If you want her in the bed, let her sleep there if she chooses to. If you don't, kick her ass out to the couch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

CEL said:


> The worst you can do is to make any hasty decisions this is still very raw for you. So just take some time to yourself this will prevent others from hurting you and you from hurting others. Right now she is away from you so you have some free space to really just decompress from the situation. Until you can come up with a game plan to either work it out or to divorce like I said you have a girl with this person and you seem to still want to get with her so give it some time until wiser people than me give you some advice. If you do have contact just try to keep it civil so that you don't damage EITHER of your chances.
> 
> 1. No name calling
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, we dont have a daughter together. I have my daughter and she has her two kids. 

And I'm not acting angry right now or feeling it, as crazy as that is. I don't know why but I already feel better from that sickness in my stomach being gone from not worrying what she is thinking. Don't get me wrong, I still want her, but already feel better not worrying right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

OP, she was never yours to begin with. You took her away from another man and now another man is taking her away from you. Sorry but you get what you pay for. You're paying for it now.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

bfree said:


> OP, she was never yours to begin with. You took her away from another man and now another man is taking her away from you. Sorry but you get what you pay for. You're paying for it now.


I guess you're right, but I didn't want her to leave him for me. But it did happen that way. I do really really believe in karma, so I guess I should open wide and relish in my serving of what comes aroubd goes around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Also, CEL, I'm loving your words, but I am also not married, just engaged to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, we dont have a daughter together. I have my daughter and she has her two kids.
> 
> And I'm not acting angry right now or feeling it, as crazy as that is. I don't know why but I already feel better from that sickness in my stomach being gone from not worrying what she is thinking. Don't get me wrong, I still want her, but already feel better not worrying right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Good in fact that is great. The affair is bad and I am not condoning or pardoning it AT ALL. But I also want you to realize that if you really want to get back together you need to not punch any holes in the boat. So be the best you can be, don't talk about the affair or the relationship but try to be the best YOU that you can. This is both for you and her, if you want to work on a reconciliation then you will BOTH have to take ownership that the relationship was not great to begin with even before she had her affair. You can go to the Affaircare website they have some great information on it Articles | AFFAIRCARE here is a list of articles you can read about this should give you a good idea at least where to start. They have a ton of stuff on what to do and how to go about it.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Also, CEL, I'm loving your words, but I am also not married, just engaged to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Been with my girl for 8 years we are not married but we have the rings and the love is the same. Sorry if I go back and forth on the terms.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> As crazy as it seems, in all honesty, I would rather work it out. Of course I would want to fix my problems first, no more porn and taking care of myself. If we make it or not, I'm fixibg that. I want to get back to being my old confident self that could be pretty damn good in bed.
> 
> But for me to try to get over this and fix things, I need her to come crawling. I couldn't do it unless I thought she felt true remorse. She is already poutting around me right now, but it's not enough. I need to somehowget the upper hand again and see her beg. I don't want to make her beg and don't get off on that type of thing, but I need to see the sincerity in her. I can be a very mean person, strong and stern, but I can also be very forgiving. I have a hard time holding on to hate most of the time. I honestly think if I truly felt she had remorse and regret and honestly needed me and wanted to make it work, I could forgive and almost forget. Is that crazy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh man, you allowed your woman to go to another man to get laid so she could get it out her system and you could work on your relationship? Really?
How is she supposed to achieve that while lying on her back having good sex?
Even now you're still simpering like a little kitten, begging and willing to forgive. There are always solutions to problems. If you're holding on to her because you dont want to lose the house..utterly wrong. Rent out rooms, rent the house move somewhere smaller, find a solution, but for gods sake grow up and act like a man and stop being walked all over.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

bfree said:


> OP, she was never yours to begin with. You took her away from another man and now another man is taking her away from you. Sorry but you get what you pay for. You're paying for it now.



This is very true but does it matter? We pay for our crimes or we don't either way a human being suffers and wants to heal from it. The harm he did was to another human being should I then try to punish him for a wrong that was done years ago? Should I deny him what help I can? I have known what it was like to be in pain does it matter that he has also caused that pain to others? Must this only be about his punishment, can't it also be about his growth. Through this he will have a better appreciation of how he hurt the husband but he could also turn this into how he came to know he loved his girl, how he came to understand how to be a good boyfriend or husband, or even how he came to understand what NOT to do in a relationship.

Respectfully I understand your words and that is certainly part of the dynamic and I am certainly not down paying the truth in your words. I just believe this could be more than just a punishment, if it is one thing I have learned it is that punishment is rarely enough he has the opportunity to make this about more than that. Whether he will through divorce or reconciliation is up to him.

At the heart of the word Karma is a sense of learning not PUNISHMENT it is about correcting and learning from the past mistakes. Punishment actually has nothing to do with the concept instead it is about redressing the balance to do that you can take away something "punishment" or add something "learning new behaviors, making amends, etc".


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

LostViking said:


> How could he have stopped it? Handcuffed her to the bannister? How do you keep someone who is determined to defy you from running off and doing something.
> 
> Threat of divorce and exposure would not have stopped her. Could he have been more GrrrrrrrrrAlpha? Maybe.
> 
> ...


It's easy. You DON'T tell her "well, okay honey, go find yourself...and some d!ck, and when you're through, maybe you can come back and work on us". 

She comes up with that chit, you tell her "fine, pack your chit and get out now" or "when you get back, I'll be gone. And gone means permanently". And then DO IT.

Not much to it. Other than having some confidence, a refusal to allow someone else to walk all over you, and a pair of balls.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

donny64 said:


> It's easy. You DON'T tell her "well, okay honey, go find yourself...and some d!ck, and when you're through, maybe you can come back and work on us".
> 
> She comes up with that chit, you tell her "fine, pack your chit and get out now" or "when you get back, I'll be gone. And gone means permanently". And then DO IT.
> 
> Not much to it. Other than having some confidence, a refusal to allow someone else to walk all over you, and a pair of balls.


The biggest set of gonads and all the threats and bravado in the world won't stop a cheater once their wheels are in motion. Sorry my friend but your wrong. 

But yes I agree with you on one point: he could have taken his daughter and left.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> *As for any so-called sexual "alphas" being on this site who might be available to comment, I haven't encountered any yet. After all, the real alphas are too busy getting laid to post. *


My wife and I just had sex about 30 min ago. OP, how may I be of service?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

CEL said:


> This is very true but does it matter?


Yes it does matter. Their relationship started out with deception and treachery. Not exactly a solid foundation is it? We all know that affairs are fantasies. The feelings aren't real. So is it so surprising that this woman's feelings for the OP faded so quickly? Once reality entered into the relationship the fantasy was over. So this woman has attempted to cultivate a new fantasy with another man. Why is this hard to understand?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My wife and I just had sex about 30 min ago. OP, how may I be of service?


I'm a sigma. I can type while I have sex. That way I can "service" more than one at a time.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My wife and I just had sex about 30 min ago. OP, how may I be of service?


Lol. Good stuff brother. Now beat me upa bit if you will. I guess I need it. I'm not a chump, just very humbled right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Ffree nailed it. 

Fantasy > reality 

once the fantasy world morphs into the humdrum of the reality nothing is left but to seek more fantasies. That's where I think this woman it at.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

bfree said:


> Yes it does matter. Their relationship started out with deception and treachery. Not exactly a solid foundation is it? We all know that affairs are fantasies. The feelings aren't real. So is it so surprising that this woman's feelings for the OP faded so quickly? Once reality entered into the relationship the fantasy was over. So this woman has attempted to cultivate a new fantasy with another man. Why is this hard to understand?


Sure did feel real for the last five and years. She just came to me again and said how she knows she has made the biggest mistake of her life. She said she knows in her heart that she'll never find someone as good as me. She says she knows she has screwed up the best thing that has ever happened to her. I said, "yes, you did". 

She said she needed me to be there her more in the bedroom and not substituting her for porn. I told her I take full blame for that and understand that I screwed that part up. She said that that part of our relationship made her feel very neglected and doubt herself. So I guess I helped push her to something else. I told her she could of handled it better. She said she's been telling me for some time, and shehad been. I ddidn't listen well enough, so I do take some of the blame. 

Man I wish I could fix this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Sure did feel real for the last five and years. She just came to me again and said how she knows she has made the biggest mistake of her life. She said she knows in her heart that she'll never find someone as good as me. She says she knows she has screwed up the best thing that has ever happened to her. I said, "yes, you did".
> 
> She said she needed me to be there her more in the bedroom and not substituting her for porn. I told her I take full blame for that and understand that I screwed that part up. She said that that part of our relationship made her feel very neglected and doubt herself. So I guess I helped push her to something else. I told her she could of handled it better. She said she's been telling me for some time, and shehad been. I ddidn't listen well enough, so I do take some of the blame.
> 
> ...


Sorry friend but you just got engaged in October and recently bought a house together. That's probably when it got "real." The relationship was 5 years. How long was it an affair? How long until you were actually living together as a blended family? And it might have felt real to you but you don't know how it felt to her. You were already going through a divorce when you got together with this woman. But she was still married. She had not detached from her husband yet. Even if her marriage was not a good one she still had to go through a grieving process when her marriage ended. How long did she grieve? You can't possibly know. See from your perspective it might have been and felt real but you don't honestly know how and what she was thinking and feeling.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

First off, you already know that the start of your relationship was based on deceit and betrayal. I know of nothing good that came out of such things. The real solution is to cut your losses and call it quits. You allowed yourself to get burned in several ways. Find a woman that is honest and unattached. Then do your research to learn what behaviors make good marriages. You already know most of it already just through reason alone. You need mutual love, trust, communication, respect, etc. it also means spending quality time and reserving your best for your spouse. 

That's how I see it. Married 16.5 years, no cheating from either of us. My thoughts come from a different perspective than you got from most so far, because I'm talking about what works for me, not about how to reconcile, expose or get revenge on your cheating fiancé.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Sure did feel real for the last five and years. She just came to me again and said how she knows she has made the biggest mistake of her life. She said she knows in her heart that she'll never find someone as good as me. She says she knows she has screwed up the best thing that has ever happened to her. I said, "yes, you did".
> 
> She said she needed me to be there her more in the bedroom and not substituting her for porn. I told her I take full blame for that and understand that I screwed that part up. She said that that part of our relationship made her feel very neglected and doubt herself. So I guess I helped push her to something else. I told her she could of handled it better. She said she's been telling me for some time, and shehad been. I ddidn't listen well enough, so I do take some of the blame.
> 
> ...


I don't see the point in doing a post mortem on the start of your relationship. You perceived it as real, and that was your reality. You sound as if you're taking some blame for her affair. Don't. Every relationship has problems, and she could've sat you down and had a heart to heart. She could've broken it off, and flipped you the bird. She didn't. She lied, obfuscated and cheated. This is her fault, not yours. 

You're still in shock, clearly. This confusion and dismay will dissipate like the morning fog. Stop kissing her ass, man. Be strong, own your anger. Who she was, who you were and what you had is dead. It's up to you whether or not you want to build a new relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

We're all doing alot of wining and crying on here from the victims position. What intially brought me to TAM was pro-active and constructive ways for dealing with the tragedy of an affair, dealing with the truth of the matter and using it to make you better.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My wife and I just had sex about 30 min ago. OP, how may I be of service?


If your girlfriend was also along for the ride and your wife was okay with it, you might be an Alpha.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

bfree said:


> I'm a sigma. I can type while I have sex. *That way I can "service" more than one at a time*.



Bragging are we?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Oh my goodness....what has this turned into. This should be put into the guys lounge. Or a thread called "You might be an Alpha when..."


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> If your girlfriend was also along for the ride and your wife was okay with it, you might be an Alpha.


That would never work for me. The two of them don't get along at all...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

5 and a half year fantasy? So when does it become reality after 6 years or is it 10 years? Come on really most affairs break in less than a year then you get a huge portion break in the second year. After that you are in rare territory.

I get that you guys are pissed at him but at the moment he is looking at trying to stay with her NOT leave. And really after a one night affair we are talking leave when she at least looks like she wants to work on it? 

You say the relationship was based in lies and deception I can point to 10 threads where the relationship was based on love and trust and yet it still failed. The point being that in ALL cases once you have adultery you kill the old one and have to restart to build a better relationship. And this is where he is. He wants to build a better one. He wants to stay with her where are the posts in how to KEEP her or what to look for in a reconciliation...instead we have posts on that he is a bad man and should leave her. This would only make both of the miserable when it looks like a good couples councilor could probably fix it.

Normally I see these posts when

1. No remorse

2. Multiple affairs

3. Massive deception

Here we a simple one if he had not been the OM would the posts be the same? Honestly does that one fact out way everything else do people who have affairs deserve to be happy? Does the OM deserve to find happiness or must all AP's be consigned to darkness?

My recommendations still stand send the PM and start reading those articles.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

LostViking said:


> The biggest set of gonads and all the threats and bravado in the world won't stop a cheater once their wheels are in motion. Sorry my friend but your wrong.
> 
> But yes I agree with you on one point: he could have taken his daughter and left.


We'll have to disagree I suppose. It is shown here, in these forums and in the "real world" in general, time and again, the BEST way to stop an affair is to NOT TOLERATE IT. Walk out. Kick them out. Hit them with divorce papers. Quick, hard, earth shaking strike to shake up their world. 

The best way to ensure it will continue is to be an enabling weenie.

I don't recall a SINGLE TIME here that I've seen some "enabling weenie" as I mentioned (male or female), who gave their WS the "I still love you and want to work this out" speach while the WS was still cheating, that said cheating did not continue! If you can find a single time it has happened, show me...maybe I wasn't paying attention.

On the other hand, those men and women that had the "balls" or "t!ts" to stand up for themselves, and went "scorched earth" on their wayward spouses have had great success in blowing up the affairs. Is it 100%? No. But it's not ZERO...which is what rating the enabling weenie crowd is holding.

I'm sorry, but it's not "bravado". It is how some of us live our lives. We simply will not tolerate someone being disloyal or unfaithful to us. And if and when that day comes, we are certainly NOT going to beg, ask, plead, for "another chance" with someone who has ultimately demonstrated they were not worthy of us in the first place.

I stand by what I said...any man (or woman for that matter) who does as the OP did, and "allows" an affair to continue for no matter the reason, has lowered their standing in their spouse's eyes to such an extent that it is an UNRECOVERABLE error by someone who has been discovered as a weak, insecure individual. The very same way that those BS's who "allow" this to continue...or take a soft stand in the face of betrayal, discover the betrayal has in fact not stopped, sometimes days, weeks, or even years later.

Weak people are almost ALWAYS discovered. Some sooner than others. Some on one side of the cheating fence...some on the other. But when they are eventually discovered...it never ends well.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

donny64 said:


> We'll have to disagree I suppose. It is shown here, in these forums and in the "real world" in general, time and again, the BEST way to stop an affair is to NOT TOLERATE IT. Walk out. Kick them out. Hit them with divorce papers. Quick, hard, earth shaking strike to shake up their world.
> 
> The best way to ensure it will continue is to be an enabling weenie.
> 
> ...


Please address what he is actually saying.

He is not saying 'enable'. He is saying a woman or man who WANTS to cheat cannot be watched 24/7and kept away from some strange unless one goes the path of chador, eunuchs, harems, etc.

This is very difficult to pull off on a middle class budget.

But you beat merry hell out of that strawman.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

CEL said:


> 5 and a half year fantasy? So when does it become reality after 6 years or is it 10 years? Come on really most affairs break in less than a year then you get a huge portion break in the second year. After that you are in rare territory.
> 
> I get that you guys are pissed at him but at the moment he is looking at trying to stay with her NOT leave. And really after a one night affair we are talking leave when she at least looks like she wants to work on it?
> 
> ...


The largest problem I see is one of motives.

Okie stated she wasn't trying, she checked out, and didn't argue when he ended things. SHE WAS GONE.

Now, one very uncomfortable reunion later,she is faced with some hard truths:

A). She is warping toward 40

B) with kids

C) she's proven unreliable

D) she is breaking an engagement long overdue

And E) she will have to explain that she is destroying 5 lives be ause she couldn't say no to a bit of strange dark meat that she had never ACTUALLY MET. (Okie...does this tell you how much she valued your relationship?). Three weeks of sweet talking was all it took.

So I feel it very important to address these issues so at least Okie knows what her primary motives are so he can have a fair assessment of his chances and how much HE should be willing to invest in this.

Now...there is probably a soupçon of regret and affection left...but that is not a lot of foundation for an R.

So...onto the advice portion of the program, OP.

1) kick her out. Her and the kids. Yes, they did nothing, but as you said, she hasn't shown ANY remorse. 

2). Tell your sister to enforce the lease on the other house. There is no soft landing there.

3). Break the engagement officially to her parents. You owe them no explanations. She gets to twist in the wind with that one. Do NOT expose...but you let her take the blame for the relationship problems. She deserves that.

These steps are NOT anti R. She needs to see you as willing to hold boundaries (you have been woefully lacking so far) and she needs to DESIRE the marriage, if not you.

4). Tell her you have no desire to increase your sexual repertoire. She gets the sex life 'as is'. (You are of course lying). If she can't live with that, hit the bricks sister. Your relationship will no longer be based on her sexual desires nor will you take any blame for her actions. People always want more. They are not 'owed' it. Certainly SHE isn't.

If you are stupid enough to let her stay in the house, kick her out of the bedroom. Honestly, have you learned nothing?

Now let's talk about YOUR motives. If I hypothetically had a good run in Vegas and would pay off your house, would you stay?

If her parents ensured you'd see her kids regularly, would you stay?

If she took the reputation hit and you'd be seen as a manly man who tossed out the garbage, would you stay?

If you knew that 40year old men pull in women like nobodies business and you didn't need to fear the future, would you stay?

It took you FIVE YEARS to get engaged...why so long? I'm guessing you are more interested in 'winning' than in her...or just want the socio economic benefits.

But your story and tone make me wonder at the authenticity of this post. It's a cream pie away from a porn story.

Assuming it's genuine, is that how you want to see your relationship?

Now...you are doing a lot corrected the ring, the not going to the reunion, the ending things. She neds to fel the cold wind outside and she needs to do the heavy lifting.

So you inform her that you are willing to R but you are not interested in the work until you see HER efforts. Then go 180.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Let me add that if you DO try to R, you still cancel the wedding. She is a broken, buggy laptop. She needs to prove she's been 'refurbished' before you legally tie yourself to this woman. And that, my friend, is a LONG time coming.

And is this situation hasn't scared you enough to insist on a pre- nup regarding the house expenses, you are unteachable.

Why the devil are you trying to pay for appliances she bought for 'the family'? Is she working on paying YOU for the house you bought?


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

JCD said:


> The largest problem I see is one of motives.
> 
> Okie stated she wasn't trying, she checked out, and didn't argue when he ended things. SHE WAS GONE.
> 
> ...


Man, tough words but uplifting, somehow. No, this is in no way some sick porn storyline. I wish it was.

Why can't I out her to her parents? I want her to hit rock bottom and I'm pretty certain that will put her there. I'm listening to all your advice and will try to follow the best I can, but I was really wanting her getting hit with facing the music with her parents. Will it completely ruin any chance of reconciliation? If that's the case than I guess I won't, but part of me thinks it might let her hit bottom, and that's when I would have a chance to see her truly remorseful for what she has done.

Oh, and what does op mean. I wish I knew what all these acronyms stood for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Man, tough words but uplifting, somehow. No, this is in no way some sick porn storyline. I wish it was.
> 
> Why can't I out her to her parents? I want her to hit rock bottom and I'm pretty certain that will put her there. I'm listening to all your advice and will try to follow the best I can, but I was really wanting her getting hit with facing the music with her parents. Will it completely ruin any chance of reconciliation? If that's the case than I guess I won't, but part of me thinks it might let her hit bottom, and that's when I would have a chance to see her truly remorseful for what she has done.
> 
> ...


Please look at my signature. My avatar really IS a warning label...

This guy isn't an affair...he's 'the hornies'. Honestly I would expose, but you might invoke so much resentment that she will have no desire to R. I think canceling the engagement and tossing her ass out for a while will suffice. Besides, it gives you a test for her. Does SHE want to fix things enough to out herself? She'll probably skip some details, but the principle is important.

OP is original poster.

The 180 is to emotionally separate from her and stop trying to 'nice' her back. Don't be mean. Treat her like a roommate. One who is not owed your business.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

oklahoma1 said:


> Man, tough words but uplifting, somehow. No, this is in no way some sick porn storyline. I wish it was.
> 
> Why can't I out her to her parents? *I want her to hit rock bottom* and I'm pretty certain that will put her there. I'm listening to all your advice and will try to follow the best I can, but I was really wanting her getting hit with facing the music with her parents. Will it completely ruin any chance of reconciliation? If that's the case than I guess I won't, but part of me thinks it might let her hit bottom, and that's when I would have a chance to see her truly remorseful for what she has done.
> 
> ...


You want her to hit rock bottom because you love her so much?
You want her to hit rock bottom for revenge purposes?
You want her to hit rock bottom so she can feel the pain you're feeling?

Was she remorseful when she cheated on her husband with you..or where you enjoying yourself too much to care about him or your partner (since you "used each other to leave unhappy marriages")

You do love a pity party, feeling sorry for yourself. You thought you were a savior, finding your soulmate after such unhappiness.

The fact is you are both cheaters. 

The fact is she's not married to you so cheating on someone she has no respect for is frankly easier than cheating on her husband.. and make no mistake about the respect levels she has for you, the porn thing was just the kicker or the death blow. What did she do? The same thing she did when she lost respect for her husband...she went somewhere else to find someone whom she could "use" to bring her out of her unhappy relationship.

You act like she's destroying a home, a family. This the same people that destroyed two homes to create this new home?

Reality check. Stop deluding yourself about the value she has in you or the value of this relationship. She told you she wouldn't cheat on you and went ahead and did it. That's how much she respects you. 

Get rid of. 

Start a new life with someone based on foundations of trust, love and respect. A nurturing relationship the children can respect, but you can't do that if you don't respect yourself. If you don't respect yourself how can anyone else?


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

Also get help for your porn "addiction". 

Why would you watch porn and ignore the woman you loved?


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

Hesitant in posting...writing style familiar, also we seem to have an infestation.

Apologies OP if you are genuine.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

JCD said:


> Please look at my signature. My avatar really IS a warning label...
> 
> This guy isn't an affair...he's 'the hornies'. Honestly I would expose, but you might invoke so much resentment that she will have no desire to R. I think canceling the engagement and tossing her ass out for a while will suffice. Besides, it gives you a test for her. Does SHE want to fix things enough to out herself? She'll probably skip some details, but the principle is important.
> 
> ...


Why would he want to reconcile? I think he should just go find himself a good woman that firmly believes that cheating isn't an option when there are relationship issues. His fiance doesn't seem to mind stepping out if things aren't perfect. I don't think this is something that will change.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

Ouch. Yes this genuine. 
I know better than anyone now that the porn thing was very bad. I have taken quite the beating from some people on here about, and I want everyone to know it was wrong. Please ease up on me a bit, bob. 

I turned to porn in my last marriage when the x would never have sex with me. I figured it was better than going out and cheating. When the new relationship started, I just didn't see the poison enough to let it go. I know it was wrong now.

I know we didn't start this thing out correctly. I also have remorse from that. I truly do. I have since the beginning. Like I said before, I went as far as sending her x a heart felt apology and even offered him one free punch to my head if he thought it would make him feel better. So I guess I'm saying please understand I know I have done plenty of wrong. 

Thanks though for everyone making that painfully clear though. 

I ended up making her sleep on the couch last night. She came to me this morning and for the first time she broke down crying very hard and telling me she was sorry for hurting me. She said she only wants us. She said she was willing to do whatever it takes to save us. I told her lets not make any promises right now, but that I couldn't lie, I also want us. I told her we would have to work on each other first and see if we could start out new. Not to go back to what we thought might have been good, but to try and start over. She agreed and we said we would do the counseling thing and see how that goes. 

I hope I'm not being too much of a door matt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> Ouch. Yes this genuine.
> I know better than anyone now that the porn thing was very bad. I have taken quite the beating from some people on here about, and I want everyone to know it was wrong. Please ease up on me a bit, bob.
> 
> I turned to porn in my last marriage when the x would never have sex with me. I figured it was better than going out and cheating. When the new relationship started, I just didn't see the poison enough to let it go. I know it was wrong now.
> ...


"I am not giving you an answer to your engagement proposal, but it's probably yes."

Sigh...

I take it that your job in no way involves negotiation...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Brokenshadow said:


> That would never work for me. The two of them don't get along at all...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What this relationship needs is more Alpha. I need more Alpha. Use the space, baby.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> What this relationship needs is more Alpha. I need more Alpha. Use the space, baby.


I GOT A FEVAH!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> Bragging are we?


It ain't bragging if its true.

The drawback is that I go through a lot of keyboards but sacrifices must be made.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Michie said:


> Hesitant in posting...writing style familiar, also we seem to have an infestation.
> 
> Apologies OP if you are genuine.


That's why I try to have fun with it and still get points across that I think are important. I am not sure if this is real - I question if it is TBH - but there is opportunity in responding on a thread that is meant to troll. Instead of getting upset at the story woven by a troll, use it as an opportunity to get on your own soap box and get your POV out there. That's what I've started doing - plus have some fun with it too.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> If your girlfriend was also along for the ride and your wife was okay with it, you might be an Alpha.


It's only OK if the GF is a friend of the marriage...


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## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

Sorry but I must say WTH is wrong with men in this century....where is your pride,self respect,etc...

she said straight to your face that she is going in another state/country/town whatever to have sex with another man and leaving you at home with children and all it takes for her to have a chance at reconcilation is some crying and saying that she will do whatever it takes to fix this...sorry but I dont know how you can attempt reconciliation with a person like this in the first place...

she never even tried to hide it and go underground like other WS after they are busted...thats how little she thinks of you and how little respect she has for you,actually she has none ...

and now that she had her sex party with OM now she will do everything to stay...

And unlike many on this forum you are even lucky to not be married and dont have children with her and yet you are stil deciding to torture yourself with reconcilation and a life of misery. LOL good luck with this woman in future...


P.S. I must say its not nice to destroy someone elses family,and yes you helped her to leave her husband and to break a home (you knew she wasnt divorced)...now thanks to karma you know how it feels...Still you dont deserve this,actually noone deserves to be betrayed...


Good Luck


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

bfree said:


> It ain't bragging if its true.
> 
> The drawback is that I go through a lot of keyboards but sacrifices must be made.


:lol::rofl:


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

oklahoma1,

It goes without saying that this is a screwed up situation. But I'll say it anyway. This is a screwed up situation.

There is something extra screwed up about the fact that this happened during the engagement. It's not really like she can claim that your relationship was stagnant, you were headed toward something very tangible.

If this sounds harsh, well, I was in the same position some 18 months ago.

Now here's the upshot: You got lucky. Betrayed guys like you and me have so much less to untangle than most of the guys here. No legal obligation, no kids etc. Exercise that privileged and walk.

Most of the guys on this forum have a very similar story: after YEARS of marriage, the doldrums of everyday-life became too unbearable for the partner so they strayed. That's not the case with guys like you and I.

Our partners cheated during engagement which is fairy-tale princess time for even the most smarmy, cynical women out there. That's a special kind of screwed up. Follow my lead and walk out that door, brother man.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's why I try to have fun with it and still get points across that I think are important. I am not sure if this is real - I question if it is TBH - but there is opportunity in responding on a thread that is meant to troll. Instead of getting upset at the story woven by a troll, use it as an opportunity to get on your own soap box and get your POV out there. That's what I've started doing - plus have some fun with it too.


It really doesn't matter. When you reply, you are creating valuable content that others, unfamiliar with this forum may find incredibly valuable.

It's really no different than actors in a commercial enjoying a tropical vacation. Yes, it's all staged and the guy paying the husband is actually gay. But does that make the beach any less relaxing?


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Brokenshadow said:


> I GOT A FEVAH!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And it needs more cow bell baby


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

...and a glass of Champangya.....


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

There comes a point in time in a relationship, being either married to the women or engaged, that role playing is fine and dandy for a while, but when one party decides to take the role playing fantasy to reality and goes off to find it with some guy she meets on FB or Craig's List and you help the situation by letting her, well friend you got a problem. You have to start thinking with your big head rather than your little head and she has to get her head out of her a$$. Going off to meet some stranger to get her kicks having sex with some guy she never met really runs a risk of her possibly losing her life and leaving her kids with no Mother. How completely stupid of her to do something so dangerous without thinking of her kids blows my mind. Think about the "what if" and this guy was a nut and did her harm. You played a big part in this situation by letting her go. If this is what you want for your life, then I wouldn't walk a mile in your shoes for all the tea in China. 
Your not married yet and your lucky that your getting a sneak peek of life after you are married to her so put the yardstick away and zip up your pants and find someone who will at least act like a women who has a moral compass and acts like an adult. There are women out there that can play in bed and remember that it's just a game.


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## oklahoma1 (Jun 11, 2013)

I didn't give her the ring back, but I have been soft all day towards her. 

My daughter and I went to church with her this morning, where her parents go to church. Her daughter and son went to spend the day at their dads. She hinted to me, by making sure I could see her hand right before we walked out, that she didn't have her ring. I didn't bite, I'm not ready to give it back yet. I would like that to take some time. 

After church, we went to eat with her parents and sister. My daughter and I left lunch early as we had a tee time to play eighteen with my mom and dad. So my daughter and I ended up being gone for most of the second half of the day playing golf. 

When we got home, I went up and showered again and afterward, we had to figure out dinner. (Of course, when I got home we kissed and said love you, and when we went to church we held hands, and then also kissed when I left from lunch too). We took the three kids to a local hot dog stand in town and all ate and did the normal good family stuff we usually do. 

We got home, and I had to take my daughter back to her moms. After I returned, we put a movie on to watch with the kids and her and I fell asleep on the couch together. We eventually woke up and she put the kids to bed. 

When she came back downstairs I had taken over the large couch so she slid over to the smaller couch. She fell asleep as we watched the rest of the Miami beating, or basketball game, and around 11pm she said she was going up to bed. 

I have to work tomorrow night, 6p-6a, so I typically try to stay up the night before and she goes to bed. This is normal when I'm thrown on night shift for three months at a time. (I go back to day shift in July, can't wait. Everyone in the home seems to be much happier when I'm on day shift, and I get to sleep with my lady every night)

So, too normal too soon on my part is what I'm afraid of. We kissed and said our love you's when she went up to bed. She hasn't said anything more about the ring, and I don't think I want to give it back just yet. I'm certain it's probably a little uncomfortable for her having people notice it not there. I'm sure her mother noticed today, but I don't think I should give it back to her right now. 

I did not ask for sex, but man did I want to. She has made me crazy all day from the dress she wore to church, to the stretch pants she wore afterward. It's amazing, now that I haven't touched porn in more than two weeks, how magnified my attraction to her is. I was soooo wrong for the porn. And I can fix that, and will, even if we don't make it. 

I know a lot of people on here are telling me to dump her and move on, but damn it I don't want to. Especially since this morning and seeing her first signs of true remorse. If I get any further signs that she isn't dedicated to fixing things, I will then tell her to pack it up. 

I know what she did was incredibly irresponsibly and insanely disrespectful to me. (as I have put it to her, "I wouldn't even do something that mean to my enemies") But I still don't want to end it if there is even a small chance things can be fixed. And am I wrong to think that if I fix my end of things, there could be a better chance for a respectful and responsible relationship between us? We're both very much good people, and good parents, but obviously have some major things to work on.

I hate that people are thinking this isn't a real story. It makes me think, how F'd up am I that people don't even believe my story because I'm apparently so messed up. But it is true. I do want to make my life better, and right or wrong, I want this woman by my side if she is willing to try with me. 

Thanks everyone. Even if some have been rough, I am listening to what you are all saying, and I appreciate it, most of it.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

You are something else my friend.

You wanted to have sex with a woman that another man used for his pleasure, a woman who blatantly gave herself to another man knowing you were being tortured back home?

Goodbye and good luck Oklahoma..

My god....


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Re: She's ruined me*


*Okalahoma, she did not ruin you only you can ruin you*



> By Oklahoma
> I know a lot of people on here are telling me to dump her and move on, but damn it I don't want to. Especially since this morning and seeing her first signs of true remorse. If I get any further signs that she isn't dedicated to fixing things, I will then tell her to pack it up.
> 
> I know what she did was incredibly irresponsibly and insanely disrespectful to me. (as I have put it to her, "I wouldn't even do something that mean to my enemies") But I still don't want to end it if there is even a small chance things can be fixed. *And am I wrong to think that if I fix my end of things, there could be a better chance for a respectful and responsible relationship between us?* We're both very much good people, and good parents, but obviously have some major things to work on.



Yes you are wrong. Even if you fix you she has a lot of fixen to do and you can not fix her. *Do you want to put your heart and life in her ability to fix herself?*

Your GF is not to be hated as she really needs help but you are not the one to help her. She is at least a two time cheater and probably more than that. Her problems are too much for you.


In fact you have a lot of improving to do yourself. Right now you are grasping at straws and hoping that she is going to fix your low self esteem and damaged emotions. *How can a woman with damaged emotions fix another person with damaged emotions?*

You are so vulnerable that you will probably disregard most of all the posts on this thread. She will make you feel like she is helping your damaged emotions when she cries and berates herself for cheating on you. She may well be remorseful but what you need is not some who is remorseful only, you need someone that is strong and can not take away from you improving yourself. *You are compromising right now because you want instant relief. Can the weak help the weak?* It is like you both are in the deep water and neither of you can swim but you want to grab a hold of her. *You both will go down.*
You are also weak because you need sex.

If you have a child with this woman you will be trapped and probably never be able to break away.

*Your best chance to break away and fix yourself is right now. Millions have done it and so can you.*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You never answered my questions.

Let me ask you another one: what exactly in your description of your day was her 'trying to make things right'? Because all I read was she tried to get sexy so you wanted to bang her which women seem to think makes everything a-ok and she tried to guilt you into giving the ring back. That is fvcking insulting that she thinks a little well used vagina is enough to 'pay' for her breaking your bonds together.

Exactly how much pvssy is it going to take to 'make things right'? 

Neither of you can fix this with sex. That is your alpha sperm wanting to impregnate 'your' woman (the quotes were deliberate and instructional). Right now she has broken all claims you have on her and it was a deliberate action BY HER.

She needs to make more deliberate effort to fix things than tight pants and showing willing to come back...for now.

What happens when she meets another sweet talking stranger?

Please do me one favor: do NOT give her the ring or talk about engagement again for at least three weeks/months. However long it took for him to get a set of trophy panties from her. It will give you a sense of her character and desire to stay with you. If she can't he firm for that period, what kind of relationship do you REALLY have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> I hate that people are thinking this isn't a real story. It makes me think, how F'd up am I that people don't even believe my story because I'm apparently so messed up


Who cares if some strangers on the internet believe you or not.

There are lots of people on here who read a story that to them sounds farfetched and out come the accusations that you're a troll or something. Just ignore them and concentrate on the support and advice you get from others.

Although I agree with other posters who say you are not going to take advantage of the good advice and support you get on here, you going back to this woman is like someone dragging you out of a burning car wreck and as soon as they leave you alone on the side of the road you run right back to the car and jump inside.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OK OP, I'm just now catching up on your story. Wow, you've got a lot to overcome if you want to R with this woman. The insecure foundation of deceit that you two started with; all the mistakes you made in handling her A, her jump into the category of serial cheater. 

I'm not going to offer an opinion whether the degree of her betrayal should be a deal breaker, because I'd be a hypocrite. My wife did some brutal stuff to me and we're attempting R. At the end of the day, only you can decide what level of betrayal you can deal with. 

That said, enough of the mistakes. If you want to R, you need to be sure she is demonstrating 100%, snot blowing, begging you to stay - remorse. Don't rug sweep this. As I see it, that's your only (small) chance to get through this.

I would not even think about giving that engagement ring back to her for months, if not years. Tell her that you're taking things day by day, week by week - giving yourself time to process what she did and at the same time, looking for her to demonstrate "consistent" remorse. Tell her that for now, no promises about the future.

And that demonstration of remorse has to include:

A no contact letter to the POSOM that you review.

Complete transparency on all her communication devices and accountability for her time. From now on.

No more GNO's, no more texting and messaging to male friends. From now on.

Complete acceptance of you exposing her affair to your family, her family, and the POSOM's SO (if he has one). She must OWN what she did.

She must openly communicate with you about this while being completely honest - with no set expiration date. No "it's time for you to get over this" business. 

And, you need to covertly monitor her - at least for several months, until she starts to earn your trust back. Meaning, you need to learn how to do it without her knowing about it. You'll get a lot of advice here. Weightlifter is our resident expert.

If she even hiccups at any of these things and you don't walk, you'll be making yet another mistake. A huge one.

Even if she agrees to all this, I think your odds are long for R. Never the less, I wish you the best of luck.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> ...she met him on some poker online game.


The online poker should have been your first red flag, everything that followed was just confirmation; she's not marrying material.

T


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

I call troll
A) you let her go
B) you took her back
c) The story is just too overly detailed. I mean proper grammar posts read like a story. The real stuff is usually no where near as polished as all this is. 

ON the small chance that this is real. You just dropped an atomic bomb on your wife's self respect for you. You knew where she was going and you knew what she was doing. I don't see her ever being able to look at you with anything anymore. You were in a good situation to stop this from happening. And you let her go. The only chance you have at a real R is to divorce her and down the road maybe getting back with her. As far as R goes. I don't think you have what it takes to make R happen. If you can't manage to set hardcore boundaries. You need to get out.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

oklahoma1 said:


> I didn't give her the ring back, but I have been soft all day towards her.
> 
> My daughter and I went to church with her this morning, where her parents go to church. Her daughter and son went to spend the day at their dads. She hinted to me, by making sure I could see her hand right before we walked out, that she didn't have her ring. I didn't bite, I'm not ready to give it back yet. I would like that to take some time.
> 
> ...


Dear oklahoma1,

Unlike a lot of other responders, I'm not going to berate you for wanting to reconcile with your wayward fiancee. If that's what you want, fine. What I _am_ going to say is that you are going about it all wrong.

I presume you want a true reconciliation with your WF, not some "slap a band-aid on it and hope for the best" result. I hope so because, if that's what you settle for, the chances are high that your WF -- who has already cheated on two men (her ex and you) -- will cheat again.

You say she's shown "the first signs of true remorse." Believe me, she hasn't. She's shown the first signs of a cheater who thinks she's gotten away with it. True remorse requires hard work and serious change and, so far, you haven't asked her for either of these. Rather, you've given her a "get out of jail free card" for her outrageous act of disrespect and betrayal. Keep this up and all she will learn is that she can abuse you with impunity.

At the very least, you need to distance yourself from her for a while so that she feels that there is at least a chance that you will leave her. No more hugs and kisses and absolutely no sex. Read up on "the 180" and start to apply it in your daily life.

When she realizes that you are withdrawing from her, which she will immediately, and asks you what is going on, tell her that you've had serious second thoughts about wanting to get back together. Say that you cannot overlook the fact of what she's done -- intentionally choosing another man over you. If she makes excuses or tries to blame you for her behavior, just say you're not going to listen to that and walk away.

Also, start looking for new living arrangements and let her discover this "by accident." When she does and asks you about it, tell her that you've not made up your mind to leave but, if you do, you want to know that you and your child have a place to stay.

You should also disclose her adultery to yours and her families (parents at least). How much more widely you should disclose is a matter for you to decide, understanding that, the greater the likelihood that she is not done with her poker-playing lover, the more widely you should disclose.

After a suitable period of time, which should be at least a couple of weeks, if she isn't begging you to take her back you will know that her "remorse" is an act. If, on the other hand she does beg for a second chance, you can decide then how to proceed. This should include laying down serious boundaries about what is and is not acceptable behavior on her part (and agreeing to boundaries for yourself if she asks, e.g., no porn). You should also insist at that point that she take a polygraph test -- I suspect there is more to her story then she has revealed to your. If she takes and passes the test, then and only then should you start to show affection for her again and contemplate resuming a carnal relationship.

Also, during your cooling off period, you need to monitor all her contacts closely. _I_ believe it's better if she agrees to this (gives you her passwords, agrees not to delete e-mails and text messages, etc.) but _many_ on TAM recommend that you do this clandestinely so as to better catch her if she is gaslighting you (planting VARs, installing loggers and the like).

When the time comes to start talking about marriage again, if it ever does, I would be really careful before making any sort of commitment. Given what has happened, I'd recommend waiting at least a couple more years before legally tying yourself to your WF.

Finally, I highly recommend that you read "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay and start to follow his blog. Any guy who could be as abused as you've been and immediately start to forgive badly needs "manliness" lessons. If you can up your game, it will help you immeasurably in dealing with your WF or, if you decide not to reconcile, with your next paramour.

The bottom line is that your WF appears to be a serial cheater and you appear to be a beta male. That's a really bad combination. Before you recommit to this relationship, make sure she is desperate to keep you and start to improve yourself. If you do these things, you may come out in an OK place. If you don't, I guarantee that you are only delaying the day of final reckoning.

Good luck.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

LostViking said:


> You are something else my friend.
> 
> You wanted to have sex with a woman that another man used for his pleasure, a woman who blatantly gave herself to another man knowing you were being tortured back home?
> 
> ...


Aye!


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi Oklahoma1.

You are gravely overestimating your ability to get over what has happened.

You need to fix your partner picker. Your fiancee is royally screwed up, but you know what? Where you find one sick person in a relationship, you find two, no exceptions.

So, good luck in your reconciliation, I truly wish you the best of luck with it, but you are in for a hell like you can not even begin to imagine. Everyone is telling you to leave her because you are setting yourself up for a life of misery and suffering. 

You need to fix your partner picker. 

Step one in that effort is _fixing yourself_.

You can do better than this, _your house is just a thing_, and there are women out there who can _truly love you_ and treat you well, once you learn how to do that for yourself.

Good luck in your open marriage! Your fiancee is a supreme manipulator and a total train wreck. She will never stop using you and hurting you, ever.

And as a betrayed husband, I would like to add one last thing.

DO NOT EVER REACH OUT TO THE HUSBAND YOU BETRAYED.

*HE HATES YOU.*


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> Where you find one sick person in a relationship, you find two, no exceptions.


That's just ridiculous.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Sounds like we have a winner...ding ding ding!!!

It is absolutely true.

Of course I do not intend to infer physical sickness, rather mental.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> It is absolutely true.
> 
> Of course I do not intend to infer physical sickness, rather mental.


I wasn't aware that mental illness is contagious.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Ha, well I guess you learn something new every day!

folie á deux


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes but not today.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

“Wounded people are attracted to wounded people. When Nice Guys enter a relationship, they frequently choose partners who look more dysfunctional than they do. This creates a dangerous illusion that one of them is sicker than the other. This is a distortion, because healthy people are not attracted to unhealthy people—and vice versa. I frequently tell couples that if you have one obviously wounded person in a relationship, you always have two. No exception.”


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Someone wrote something on the internet therefore it must be true.

Hey you could be right.

But from my personal experience- I've seen many couples in real life, and read about them on internet forums. In such cases, one of them appears relatively normal, certainly not meeting the definition of "sick" yet they find themselves paired with someone who has major personality or mental disorders which they either weren't aware of in the beginning or they developed later.

It might "happen from time to time" that people with mental illness are attracted to same, or it might even happen a lot of times. But to say _it happens all the time with no exceptions_ is a bit of a reach. 

Don't believe everything you read even if it's on the internet and even if someone quotes it and posts a link to it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

What is anyone to say to this OP---he acquised when his so called fiancé, asked to go have sex with another man---he told her fine--I don't care---go do your thing---so what is there to even say to this poster

She will go off and do what she wants/when she wants to/how she wants to/where she wants to----he will probably even pay for her transportation

Let him be---obviously he doesn't mind being sloppy seconds---it's his life, let him do with it as he wishes, he seems to have no self-esteem, or self-respect, for some they are perfectly happy watching their spouse go off and have sex with others----what else is there to say to this poster---its his life, let him live it!!!!!!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Disenchanted, friend, stop reading nonsense. At least try not to take it a heart so much.

Poeple fake "normal" since beggining of times.

IE. No, people don't become suddenly codependent when they discover their spouses are hidden addicts. No magic virus here. They were lied and fooled.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

A healthy person is not attracted to a lying cheater.

End of story.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> A healthy person is not attracted to a lying cheater.
> 
> End of story.


Most likely the person they were attracted to wasn't lying and cheating at the time. Most likely the person who ultimately cheated and lied had no intention of doing that when they first met the person they ultimately betrayed. 

Now it's end of story.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey Lenzi, while I appreciate your hostility and all, in the first post by OP he mentions how he was having an affair with his fiancee while she was married and lying to her husband.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> Hey Lenzi, while I appreciate your hostility and all, in the first post by OP he mentions how he was having an affair with his fiancee while she was married and lying to her husband.


Ok no problem, I thought you were stating that anyone who is cheated on is sick or unhealthy, but you were in fact only referring to the person who started this thread.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Play nice people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

There is overwhelming scientific data that researchers have shown that interpersonal attraction is positively correlated to personality similarity (Goldman, Rosenzweig & Lutter, 1980). People are inclined to desire romantic partners who are similar to themselves on agreeableness, conscientiousness, extroversion, emotional stability, openness to experience (Botwin, Buss, & Shackelford, 1997), and attachment style (Klohnen & Luo, 2003).

This is elementary psychology.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

People with similar personalities attract.

Opposites attract too. 

Regardless, it also doesn't mean that if one partner is sick in the head that the other partner is sick in the head with no exceptions.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> There is overwhelming scientific data that researchers have shown that interpersonal attraction is positively correlated to personality similarity (Goldman, Rosenzweig & Lutter, 1980). People are inclined to desire romantic partners who are similar to themselves on agreeableness, conscientiousness, extroversion, emotional stability, openness to experience (Botwin, Buss, & Shackelford, 1997), and attachment style (Klohnen & Luo, 2003).
> 
> This is elementary psychology.


There's also a complete line of threrapist who goes even further and argue we chose our mates to fix our FOO hidden brokeness, somehow.

There's also overwhelming scientific data (sorry I can't provide any link) that prove we chose people with a certain degree of disparity in our immune system. It must be different enough, not too much, the actual disparity is measurable and it's also a quality thing, not exclusively a matter of degree, which makes sense from a evolutionist POV as you neeed to provide good biological chances to your children. Does it explain "chemistry", attraction? 

So much for soulmates in one end of the beliefs and psychological theories of matching brokeness/personalities in the other end.

Thing is simply opportunity is very often the king. We don't dispose of an endless source of potential mates, no matter if you live in a small town of a large city.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: She's ruined me*



lenzi said:


> People with similar personalities attract.
> 
> Opposites attract too.
> 
> Regardless, it also doesn't mean that if one partner is sick in the head that the other partner is sick in the head with no exceptions.


I think we're all sick in the head spending so much time here and not getting paid.


Just kidding......probably


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

bfree said:


> I think we're all sick in the head spending so much time here and not getting paid.
> 
> 
> Just kidding......probably


I'm getting paid. I do this during my downtime.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: She's ruined me*



lenzi said:


> I'm getting paid. I do this during my downtime.


Lol


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Acabado said:


> There's also overwhelming scientific data (sorry I can't provide any link)....


It's called Assortative mating and is complementary to "like attracts like", they are not mutually exclusive.

Point being, after cutting through all of the belligerence and bloviating, if you do not believe that you deserve to be treated well, you will not be treated well.

A healthy person knows to not choose a partner from scarcity, but rather from abundance.

Settling is an unhealthy behavior.

The model of complementarity explains whether "birds of a feather flock together" or "opposites attract".

Studies show that complementary interaction between two partners increases their attractiveness to each other (Nowicki and Manheim; 1991). Complementary partners preferred closer interpersonal relationship than non-complementary ones (Nowicki & Manheim,1991). Couples who reported the highest level of loving and harmonious relationship were more dissimilar in dominance than couples who scored lower in relationship quality. (Markey & Markey (2007)).

Mathes and Moore (1985) found that people were more attracted to peers approximating to their ideal self than to those who did not. Specifically, low self-esteem individuals appeared more likely to desire a complementary relationship than high self-esteem people. We are attracted to people who complement to us because this allows us to maintain our preferred style of behavior (Markey & Markey (2007), and through interaction with someone who complements our own behavior, we are likely to have a sense of self-validation and security (Carson, 1969).


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MOOOVE...On.


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