# Am I an emotional abuser?



## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

My wife left me over the weekend, with my kids, while I was away. I knew it was coming, and it did make sense for her to do it while I was gone to avoid the extra awkwardness and pain. In addition to the usual heartbreak, brokenness, bewilderment, etc that's all over these forums, there's an additional aspect that hurts even worse. 

She saw a counselor at our church, and after the conversation with him, she was more resolved than ever to leave. He said separation was a good idea. It turns out he concluded that I was an emotional and spiritual abuser. But I've spent all day on the internet looking at definitions of emotional and spiritual abuse. Here was the longest list of definitions:

Abuse Definitions

I've tried so hard to be honest with myself to see if I fit the bill here, as I would rather know, get help, and never be this way again. I looked through all the examples of emotional abuse, and at first I was terrified that I was a monster. But then I went back through to see if my wife fit the definition of these things, and what I found is that, like most people probably, we're guilty of some of these things from time to time. There were certain things we both do, certain things I only do, certain things she only does, as well as things that neither of us EVER do.

Her chief complaint is that I'm "controlling", but I don't see how that's possible. I ALWAYS encourage her to go out with friends, because I trust her completely, and always have. When I would brag about her to friends or whoever, it was always, "Her and I never have to worry about someone cheating". I DO NOT have the self-esteem issues or lack of control in my own life that seems to define the abuser. She has MAJOR self-esteem issues, because she doesn't know how great she is, and I feel like I spent the majority of our marriage trying to convince her how great she really is. Because she is. She's the most sensitive creature I've ever known, and I knew that when we first started dating, but because of that she's so gentle and kind-hearted. She's smart, she's funny, and she's as pretty as a china doll...and she doesn't believe it, and I've always felt like a failure as a husband for failing to convince her.

So that was all stream-of-conciousness in that last paragraph, but can someone point to a place on the net where you find if you're an emotional abuser? There's so many that tell if you're BEING abused, but where can you find out if you are, in fact, the abuser? I don't think I am, but I'm not confident enough to rule it out. Whether I'm a monster, victim, or anywhere in between, I need to know.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

It is hard to reply because you do not supply any examples of why your wife thinks you are an emotional abuser.

If she were to start a thread here, what would she say about you?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Am I Emotionally Abusive? | Ask the Therapist

Subtle Signs Of Emotional Abuse « It Is Called “Mount Cope”

How to tell if you are a verbal, physical or emotional abuser - by S. Anderson - Helium

Has she specifically told you what you do that is emotionally abusive? In what ways does she mean you are controlling?
Has anyone else ever made a comment to you about the way you treat her or told you that your behavior is not nice? Have you ever had anyone else in your life (and in past romantic relationships) tell you that you're emotionally abusive and/or something similar?

I was married to an emotional abuser and it was hell.


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Am I Emotionally Abusive? | Ask the Therapist
> 
> Subtle Signs Of Emotional Abuse « It Is Called “Mount Cope”
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that you were. Glad it's over for you now.

No one's ever told me I'm not nice to my wife, except for her. I HAVE been told that she's been mean to me, but I've ignored that. I've asked my own wife lately, "What makes me an emotional abuser?" And she'll reply, "You're just so controlling", and she brings up a time when she went to a city bar with a friend, and that friend's work friends (who were all eight years older than my wife, divorced, and looking for men, according to my wife). A bunch of ridiculous pictures ended up on Facebook, which may not seem like a huge deal, but we have kids, and we're active in church, and here's the thing--I'm not imposing my values on her, we both sort of frown on parents getting drunk in bars until closing time. And pictures on Facebook? Sorry, that's just childish--it was a 35 year old that posted them.

If that seems judgmental, that's another topic, but I promise that my wife and I agree on this. What happened was, she ended up in someone else's car, so she was sort of forced to go along that night. Totally understandable, but whenever she went out with that friend again, I'd be like, "Is it just you two, or are you going out with her work friends"?

That friend of hers is totally cool, and I encourage my wife to go see her, just like I encourage her to see her other friends, because I know she gets lonely as a stay-at-home mom. 

So this is the example I've been given the last couple of times I've asked how I'm controlling. 

But even this complaint of hers is twofold--it's not just about that night. It seems to be more about my hypocrisy, because earlier in our marriage I wanted to go out with my friends nearly twice a month. I mean, she's right, that was ridiculous, immature behavior for a husband, but I've outgrown that nonsense by now. Even my own family called me out on that, and basically said, "Grow up. You're a father now". I was only 23, 24 years old, but I made a choice to be a man early and I wasn't acting like one. But even when we got to the point where I wanted to see my two closest friends on a monthly or every-other-month basis, I was always accused of "choosing them over her". 

Here's what I think is really going on: I will, at times, exhibit abusive behavior (as we all do). And so does she. I think she has an uncanny knack for dwelling on these instances (she has an amazing memory regarding my mistakes), and she's extrapolated those instances out to say, "Here's how my husband is". But what I really think I am is just sort of a crappy husband--a bad listener, doesn't try real hard to serve my wife, etc. 

Thanks for the links--they seem exactly what I'm looking for. I was much more worried yesterday about being an abuser than today, because I talked to a couple of people and they don't think I was, and they made some good points. Still going to look into this further, and I'm going to see a counselor. I'm not letting myself off the hook quite yet, because that's exactly what an abuser WOULD do, I think. And thank you for the comments, I'm really glad I stumbled across this forum. I would welcome any other insight.


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> It is hard to reply because you do not supply any examples of why your wife thinks you are an emotional abuser.
> 
> If she were to start a thread here, what would she say about you?


She would say that I'm controlling, and that I'm mean (which, at times, and to my shame, is true) and that I ignore her (which is also true, but I'm not trying to control her). I ignore her because I'm a bad listener, and I just don't want to talk sometimes. I'm also addicted to entertainment, whether it's reading, TV, or the internet, so she'll try to talk to me and I'll sort of try to listen and respond, but my attention is totally divided. That's bad husbanding right there. I knew it was a problem, so about six months ago, I asked her if we could get rid of the internet and hi-def cable. I felt bad that SHE used these things without addictive tendencies (well, she could have been on the internet a little less herself, I think), and our kids were watching too much TV, because it's so tempting to just throw on Nick Jr. or PBS Kids for two hours at a time, twice a day, which I've read is bad for kids. I just thought we'd be a stronger family without all those distractions. After three months, she caved. In return, I got her a 4G android phone with high-speed data, and I figured we could just treat ourselves to DVDs of good shows for both ourselves and the kids. In retrospect, what I should have done is deal with my own out-of-controlness, but I also knew that if it didn't work out, we could always call up Comcast or whoever and get it back. Anyway, that's probably something she'd bring up as far as controlling behavior.


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## AnotherRandomGuy (May 10, 2012)

One thing I keep hearing from you is projection of blame on your wife. In one instance, you glorify her, in the next you talk about what she did to you. I have recently been made aware I am an emotional abuser and like you, I researched and tried to process everything about myself, my wife and our marriage. The fact is: Stop looking at anything she has done. That is on her and you can't change her. The only person you can change is yourself. You are accountable for your actions, DESPITE feelings of being "provoked" or "triggered". Empathize with HER hurt, instead of having a victim mentality and listing our her faults. You hurt her. Period. You hurt her enough for her to take the children and leave. You need to wake up and face reality and I suggest you seek individual counseling for yourself. You would be very surprised what constitutes "abuse" and though you look and see she is also guilty of some of these issues, be a real man and own your own without pointing a finger back at her. After reading your posts, it appears you think pretty highly of yourself. Time to take it down a few notches and re-visit putting yourself in HER shoes and showing her respect, validation, etc. Doesn't matter if it isn't returned. We shouldn't show love just to receive love back. As it says in the Bible, "Bless those who curse you - Bless those who persecute you"...it doesn't say to point a finger at them. It's like you need to look in the mirror and ONLY LOOK AT YOURSELF and list ONLY your behaviors that affected your marriage. If you can one day do this, you will heal and she will heal also in time with or without you.


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## AnotherRandomGuy (May 10, 2012)

P.S. - these are the examples of patterns of what you wrote:

"I felt bad that SHE used these things without addictive tendencies (well, she could have been on the internet a little less herself, I think)" Really? Does it make you feel better to point that out about her also instead of remaining focused on yourself?

"After three months, she caved." So? You made the choice to cave also or not to. Don't blame her.

" I HAVE been told that she's been mean to me, but I've ignored that." - We have ALL been told that, my friend. People who are NOT in our marriage look at our marriage through a kaleidoscope and tend to pick sides. Maybe your wife had reasons for appearing mean to you. You keep saying she told you that you were controlling and you keep defending you weren't. FACT IS that SHE had real feelings that you WERE controlling. And you need to face that fact.

"Here's what I think is really going on: I will, at times, exhibit abusive behavior (as we all do). And so does she." Wow, man. You just really excuse your behavior...I hope you open your eyes.

" I was much more worried yesterday about being an abuser than today, because I talked to a couple of people and they don't think I was, and they made some good points. Still going to look into this further, and I'm going to see a counselor. I'm not letting myself off the hook quite yet, because that's exactly what an abuser WOULD do, I think." Don't go get help only to try to prove you aren't an abuser. THAT is what an abuser would do.

"I looked through all the examples of emotional abuse, and at first I was terrified that I was a monster. But then I went back through to see if my wife fit the definition of these things, and what I found is that, like most people probably, we're guilty of some of these things from time to time. There were certain things we both do, certain things I only do, certain things she only does, as well as things that neither of us EVER do." FOCUS ON YOU ONLY.

"She has MAJOR self-esteem issues, because she doesn't know how great she is, and I feel like I spent the majority of our marriage trying to convince her how great she really is. Because she is. She's the most sensitive creature I've ever known, and I knew that when we first started dating, but because of that she's so gentle and kind-hearted. She's smart, she's funny, and she's as pretty as a china doll...and she doesn't believe it, and I've always felt like a failure as a husband for failing to convince her." This is a big load of BLEH. Doesn't matter how much you told her how wonderful and great she is...you also proved in other ways the opposite. Her self esteem issues aren't the root of your marital problems. 

"Whether I'm a monster, victim, or anywhere in between, I need to know." You are NOT a victim and stop having a victim mentality.

This is a link of true abusive behaviors:

Impact Newsletter: Power and Control Wheel: A Tool for Recognizing Abusive Behavior


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## AnotherRandomGuy (May 10, 2012)

MUCH better link - the first one isn't the one my therapist gave me:

http://www.safeplaceministries.com/pdf/Learning to Recognize Abuse.pdf


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

This is the most random thread I've witnessed.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow Random guy, you have been sort of thrown under the bus. I haven't seen anything in your post that would define you as anything other than human. I am still coming to grips with why an elder of your church would tell your wife to leave. What denomination are you if you don't mind me asking? That seems pretty liberal even for an Unitarian.

I think I am a little more used to hearing the whole Malachi "God hates divorce" thing. Is there anything you have left out for us good readers of TAM? In light of your stated "crimes", that seems to have been very irresponsible advice for a counselor to give.

Just one man's thoughts

LIL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Welcome to the club:smthumbup: 

Yeah, you've been gaslighted my friend..... and I hate to break it to you, but she's also cheating on you or thinking about it. See you married a "good girl" who seemed absolutely perfect at first. You did everything you could to support her but when you had arguments or complained even the slightest bit she took it personally and built up all this contempt over the years until she saw you as the bad man and split. 

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say she hates her father who was sexuall/physically abusive, a cheater, alcoholic, or never around. She loves her mom even though her emtional distance or closeness seemed off to you. She liked sex with you but was easily talked into it despite not seeming into it, which she threw back at you claiming "you made her do it".

Any of this ringing a bell? It should because it's not you, IT'S HER! She's a very codependent person and learned to care-take putting everyone else above her until it hurt her very deeply. You're not going to get anywhere with this woman until you understand the way she thinks which means...... DO NOT LASH OUT AT HER IF YOU WANT HER BACK! But the chances are she's build up all this contempt for her old married life and what a goodd girl she was trying to be, and those poison b!tches talked her into a life without you. LOL, those women are some of the most depressed you'll meet because they either had Mr.Right and lost him or don't have the goods to get him.... so they talk each other into that life of misery girl power crap, like the miserable mediation old maids.

You have a great chance with the 180 now, but you'll need to agree with her 200% about you being the monster and start actually doing something about it, maybe anger management and reading a few body language and relationship books. You'll also have to do something about that pedestal you put her on. Did it come with a blue ribbon because she's not acting very pedigree. You need to hate her for what she did and man up pronto! Other wise you'll be the sucker forgiving her for selling her rings, blocking you on FB and creating a new fake account, and letting her sweet talk you into a temporary restraining order for the kids' sake.


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Nsweet, question: if he does IC, anger management, etc, she may come back to the table. But if she decides to get back together, how will he convince her to work on her own issues?? From what has been told, it doesn't seem like she would take it well if he were to request that she get IC. Is this something that would be addressed by the MC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Conrad said:


> This is the most random thread I've witnessed.


Where's RD when we need him... LoL 

Two Random Guys in one thread - I was thinking the same thing... LoL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

That's just it, you can't convince the WS it's their fault at all. It's always the other spouses fault, but you're only taking the blame to negotiate and get along better. If you can suck it up and hear her out you'll both be happier.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It sounds like she might be overly dependent on your attention and also overly dependent on a sense of belonging to a group of friends. Does she ever spend alone time or go anywhere on her own or do anything of her own initiative because she has an interest, or does her existence revolve around others. She could be 'empty' inside...and wanting constant input and affection and attention to you. That would explain overemphasis on any little negative thing you might say or do, or just normal thing like reading and not wanting to talk while you're reading. She might take that as rejection in some way. Probably she has unrealistic expectations of a relationship, and it doesn't really sound like she has much initiative with the kids? Your choice is to become co-dependent, but then she will get bored with you, because that's not really what she wants. What she probably wants is some kind of feeling of self-competency, and that can only be gained by spending painful time by yourself facing your many hard truths. Most emotionally healthy people do this regularly, they dig in their heels when they have to deal with something. It sounds like you are one of those computerized animal toys...she puts you into 'sleep' mode or 'standby' mode when she is doing something with others...and then expects you to behave in a certain way depending on the situation...only nobody has handed you a script?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Nsweet: emotional abuse is a very real thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

AnotherRandomGuy said:


> MUCH better link - the first one isn't the one my therapist gave me:
> 
> http://www.safeplaceministries.com/pdf/Learning to Recognize Abuse.pdf


Thanks, I'll look into it. I think you're being a little hard on me by sticking to the "only look at yourself!" line of thinking. I don't disagree with that approach, but when I've mentioned her, it's to provide context, not assign blame...or at least that's what I was going for.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

My husband does the exact same thing... It's usually blame-shifting... Followed by justification.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

lastinline said:


> Wow Random guy, you have been sort of thrown under the bus. I haven't seen anything in your post that would define you as anything other than human. I am still coming to grips with why an elder of your church would tell your wife to leave. What denomination are you if you don't mind me asking? That seems pretty liberal even for an Unitarian.
> 
> I think I am a little more used to hearing the whole Malachi "God hates divorce" thing. Is there anything you have left out for us good readers of TAM? In light of your stated "crimes", that seems to have been very irresponsible advice for a counselor to give.
> 
> ...


No, we're non-denominational, pretty conservative theologically. He didn't say "divorce him", but he said separation was OK.


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Welcome to the club:smthumbup:
> 
> Yeah, you've been gaslighted my friend..... and I hate to break it to you, but she's also cheating on you or thinking about it. See you married a "good girl" who seemed absolutely perfect at first. You did everything you could to support her but when you had arguments or complained even the slightest bit she took it personally and built up all this contempt over the years until she saw you as the bad man and split.
> 
> ...


Whoa. Very prescient on some of that, especially the first two paragraphs. But we're doing well now...I'm sorry that your experience was worse.


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## RandomGuy155 (Jan 30, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Welcome to the club:smthumbup:
> 
> Yeah, you've been gaslighted my friend..... and I hate to break it to you, but she's also cheating on you or thinking about it. See you married a "good girl" who seemed absolutely perfect at first. You did everything you could to support her but when you had arguments or complained even the slightest bit she took it personally and built up all this contempt over the years until she saw you as the bad man and split.
> 
> ...


A while back I said you had a few things right. I just reread your words in shock, because you didn't get a few things right. Nearly every single word is true. The only thing you're off on is that I don't think she _hates _her father (although she certainly used to), because he is a withdrawn alcoholic who is, well, just not a good father.

I forgot your advice, though, and I lashed back at her when I learned of her cheating. I was willing to try to work it out, but just one angry email ended up getting me served with divorce papers. How in the world you knew all this...you must have had the exact same kind of woman in your past.


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