# Speak frankly, can you really love some and hurt them repeatedly?



## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

I want your opinion. Your unfiltered no holds barred opinion.

Can you actually love someone and still choose to do things that hurt them repeatedly? Or is it a clear cut sign that the love isn't real? Or is it possible but you are just too selfish to make better choices? Or is there a purposeful disconnect you do to make both acceptable until found out?

Basically, if you know an action will deeply hurt your partner, could you still choose to do it even though you love them?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

That would be a lack of love for either of you... if one cannot have a healthy love and respect for self it will be a struggle to show that for another.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your husband's real love is his addiction. You and your children aren't even a close second as evidenced by the way he treats all of you.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In general a very clear no. 

The exception is addition where someone is unable to control their own actions. In that case the response remains the same since you can't fix an addict. Don't stay with someone who hurts you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes. You can love someone, but your own flaws (of whatever kind) can result in hurtful behavior. It's then on the injured party to find a solution or leave, if their partner cannot change; staying condones the behavior.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes. You can love someone, but your own flaws (of whatever kind) can result in hurtful behavior. It's then on the injured party to find a solution or leave, if their partner cannot change; staying condones the behavior.


I agree with this. I believe my ex H loved me in the only way he knew how. For some that’s all they’ve got and it’s the best they can do.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

uhtred said:


> In general a very clear no.
> .


This is a fact.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I am not going to go back and read your history to figure out why you ask this. It's a leading question without enough background information to make a solid judgement on. As such I should refuse to answer it.
But just for the sake of illumination,, . . . . .
No That way lies making light of your situation. 
Here is the answer,
Not the answer to your question, but nonetheless the answer that you most likely need.
Sometimes Love isn't enough.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Only with a safe word.


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## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

It's a long and overused story I assure you. But yes, I have found myself saying the very same lately. Because love is only one part of a rather large puzzle.





Mr. Nail said:


> I am not going to go back and read your history to figure out why you ask this. It's a leading question without enough background information to make a solid judgement on. As such I should refuse to answer it.
> But just for the sake of illumination,, . . . . .
> No That way lies making light of your situation.
> Here is the answer,
> ...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Saibasu said:


> I want your opinion. Your unfiltered no holds barred opinion.
> 
> *Can you actually love someone and still choose to do things that hurt them repeatedly?* Or is it a clear cut sign that the love isn't real? Or is it possible but you are just too selfish to make better choices? Or is there a purposeful disconnect you do to make both acceptable until found out?
> 
> Basically, if you know an action will deeply hurt your partner, could you still choose to do it even though you love them?


*Absolutely! And with very little to no equivocation!

And that's so very easy to ascertain, more especially if you've ever lived to have been on the receiving end of it!*


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Generally, no. In case of your husband, he is an addict and can't help it. His addiction comes first, even if this means hurting you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Generally, no. In case of your husband, he is an addict and can't help it. His addiction comes first, even if this means hurting you.


I dont agree that addicts cant help it. Many who were addicts no longer are, its a choice to break free or not.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree that addicts cant help it. Many who were addicts no longer are, its a choice to break free or not.


I agree. The first step in the 12 step program is: We admitted we were powerless over the addiction.

This doesn't mean that an addict can't do anything about the addiction. It means that an addict cannot control the addiction, as in a smoker deciding that she can smoke one cigarette per day rather than the whole pack. That smoker will go back to smoking at least as much as she was smoking before if she takes that position. An addict can't do "just a little." That's not how addiction works. An addict has to completely stay away from the addiction in order to be free of it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Addicts don't have relationships; they take hostages.

Addiction, in and of itself, is a self-serving, selfish thing. So, no, addicts don't love in an emotionally-healthy, mature fashion. Not to say they don't try, but it doesn't end well. Sorry.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree that addicts cant help it. Many who were addicts no longer are, its a choice to break free or not.


He can't help the addiction, but he can fix himself. What he is doing is the result of an untreated addiction. As any illnesses, he needs to be treated. If he doesn't want to be treated, then it's time for the OP to pack her bags (said someone who somewhat is unable to do that)...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Saibasu said:


> I want your opinion. Your unfiltered no holds barred opinion.
> 
> Can you actually love someone and still choose to do things that hurt them repeatedly? Or is it a clear cut sign that the love isn't real? Or is it possible but you are just too selfish to make better choices? Or is there a purposeful disconnect you do to make both acceptable until found out?
> 
> Basically, if you know an action will deeply hurt your partner, could you still choose to do it even though you love them?


Yes, if you are an addict. Addicts do not love themselves so are incapable of loving others.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

To be able to love another, properly, one must love themselves proportionally.

If one hates themselves, how is it they can love another? That hate of theirs will soon spill over onto their partner.

Having love and hate in one relationship promises repulsion and rejection, anguish and anxiety.

It seems....

Love and hate derives from the same coin, with each on one side.
How that coin is flipped and landed determines how it is spent.



SCM-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree that addicts cant help it. Many who were addicts no longer are, its a choice to break free or not.


Not all are strong as Thee. 

It is said that the true alcoholic has it the worst. If you cut an alcoholic off cold turkey, the chances of them dying is high. From the DT's and from suicide.

The next worst drug to get off of is methamphetamine's. They are also deadly.

Both these drugs take over the addicts brain, such that they have little or no control of their actions.

This is truth. 

Addicts like these can only get clean using supervised medical intervention, and usually employing some means of force and restraint. The restraint can entail injecting strong sedatives, and lock-downs, etc.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Not all are strong as Thee.
> 
> It is said that the true alcoholic has it the worst. If you cut an alcoholic off cold turkey, the chances of them dying is high. From the DT's and from suicide.
> 
> ...


The addiction in this case is he can't stop looking at other people doing the horizontal mambo and keeping his hands off his pee-pee. She's hardly going to take a hot poker to both of his eyes and cut his fingers off. Even if she cut off the internet, he would still have access via other means. He's going to do what he wants regardless if it costs him his marriage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> The addiction in this case is he can't stop looking at other people doing the horizontal mambo and keeping his hands off his pee-pee. She's hardly going to take a hot poker to both of his eyes and cut his fingers off. Even if she cut off the internet, he would still have access via other means. He's going to do what he wants regardless if it costs him his marriage.


Yep, I agree..

The pee-pee WILL be heard and stroked to silence. 

The problem is that he is pushing this eyeballing problem of his into the wrong hands. His own.

He should sub-contract all of the 'lore and chore' out to his significant other.

He should lay his eyeballs only on her, and let her hands and other smarts and parts, do the rest.

Bad habits look good only on a chaste Nun.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> The addiction in this case is he can't stop looking at other people doing the horizontal mambo and keeping his hands off his pee-pee.


Oh for God's sakes, I thought it was an actual drug addiction, not another one who can't control himself.

Either throw him at a CSAT or get out, OP. These things never end well, anyway.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

aine said:


> Yes, if you are an addict. Addicts do not love themselves so are incapable of loving others.


Really? This is what we haul out as advice in a peer-to-peer forum? 

God help us.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Really? This is what we haul out as advice in a peer-to-peer forum?
> 
> God help us.


She has a lot of experience being married to an addict whereas I seriously doubt the person who posted this throwaway: 

"Only with a safe word." has any.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> She has a lot of experience being married to an addict whereas I seriously doubt the person who posted this throwaway:
> 
> "Only with a safe word." has any.


Too bad you don't know **** about me and my 55 year relationship with my alcohol and cocaine addicted type II bipolar disorder brother for whom I have personally crossed the country twice to move him back to live in my house while he patches his life together. 

He manages to love others just fine, thank you very much, while agonizing over the pain he has caused them. 

Given the fact that he also happens to be a research psychologist, I'll wager I can go toe-to-toe with most anyone on this forum on the subject of addiction. 


Your move.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Too bad you don't know **** about me and my 55 year relationship with my alcohol and cocaine addicted type II bipolar disorder brother for whom I have personally crossed the country twice to move him back to live in my house while he patches his life together.
> 
> He manages to love others just fine, thank you very much, while agonizing over the pain he has caused them.
> 
> Your move.


How about you give the OP some advice based on your experience rather than tear down another's?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I would like to say a resounding “no” to that, but given my experiences with significant others and my family, I would say that yes, a person can love another and choose to hurt them repeatedly. Or maybe when they say “I love you”, it’s just words with no feeling to back that up. I’m not sure.

In your situation, OP, I would agree with @Blondilocks in that your husband’s love is his addiction.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> I am not going to go back and read your history to figure out why you ask this. It's a leading question without enough background information to make a solid judgement on. As such I should refuse to answer it.





Blondilocks said:


> How about you give the OP some advice based on your experience rather than tear down another's?


Because I wasn't responding to the OP - see the above. The OP has on this thread asked two questions that are not answerable in the abstract, and I am not in the habit of tracking down posting history to recreate the context.

I responded appropriately to another's post saying that addicts don't love themselves and therefore cannot love others.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Because I wasn't responding to the OP - see the above. The OP has on this thread asked two questions that are not answerable in the abstract, and I am not in the habit of tracking down posting history to recreate the context.
> 
> I responded appropriately to another's post saying that addicts don't love themselves and therefore cannot love others.


Fair enough; although, MEM would have given you a hard time for not doing your homework. But, I'll get off this jag before Ele nails us for bickering and threadjacking.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Too bad you don't know **** about me and my 55 year relationship with my alcohol and cocaine addicted type II bipolar disorder brother for whom I have personally crossed the country twice to move him back to live in my house while he patches his life together.
> 
> He manages to love others just fine, thank you very much, while agonizing over the pain he has caused them.
> 
> ...


 @Cletus what is your problem? Didn't know that this forum was some sort of pissing contest. Get over yourself FFS! I talk from experience and extensive reading, counselling, etc. BTW I also have a PhD, so bloody what? Addiction can affect anyone regardless of level of education whether he is a research psychologist is neither here nor there. 

We could get into a philosophical discussion on the meaning of love, etc but that would be pointless and no addicts cannot love people in terms of giving emotionally to them. She asked a question, whether a person could love someone and hurt them too, of course we are flawed human beings so we hurt our loved ones all the time but I believe this poster is grappling with the fact that her husband continually makes promises to stop what he is doing and start over again, she believes him gets on the roller coaster, he lets her down again, rinse, repeat. Poster will not grapple with this till she sees who her H actually is as an addict.

Incidentally being in an intimate relationship with an addict is not the same as having a family relative as one. There may be similarities but you can usually walk away and have your space from a relative. With your other half it is not so simple, you keep going on the roller coaster because you have hope. It is hope that eventually destroys people, I believe our poster in in this position right now and the sooner she sees who her husband really is the better for her. All addiction is a family disease. The poster needs help for co-dependency this need to control, this need to understand and change the circumstances. I could go on but I will stop there. 

And 'no' I dont want to go 'toe to toe' or 'head to head' or any other sort of juvenile 'fisty cuffs':scratchhead::scratchhead: you are proposing. 

Cheers and calm down :toast:


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

aine said:


> Incidentally being in an intimate relationship with an addict is not the same as having a family relative as one.


Isn't this the truth? It is so much harder when it is your SO. You love them or loved them at some point. 

Then, using the frog in the boiling water analogy, you become some type of care taker. Then you wake up at some point hopefully and look around, and NO ONE is taking care of you. 

You end up killing yourself, for someone that may or may not be capable of loving you at some level. But while they are addicted, there is actually no way to show you love or care for you in any way. 

Honestly, it is enough to make a sane person, crazy...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

aine said:


> Yes, if you are an addict. Addicts do not love themselves so are incapable of loving others.





aine said:


> @Cletus what is your problem?


That quote was my problem. Casting a diverse population into a single entity that can then be dehumanized with a meaningless tautology.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> That quote was my problem. Casting a diverse population into a single entity that can then be dehumanized with a meaningless tautology.


I am not saying that there are not outliers in every area of life. 

However, while I am sure you love your brother, my experience says that this is actually the case. I don't know that an actual addict, with a few exceptions can actually love someone. I am not saying they don't have strong feelings, but addicts love/hate themselves it seems to me. 

If my ex had loved me, why would she lie. Why wouldn't she tell me, she kept it hidden. Hell, why wouldn't she just let me go or send me away... WHY????

And if you still say that is love, ok, then it is a love I don't want. 

I have sacrificed a large portion of my life on the addicts alter, and it left me wanting. 

Maybe it is different for you, but god that hurt so much...


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## seb345 (Feb 14, 2020)

I am not sure if it's true or not but in my personal case if a person repeatedly hurts me I will hurt him back. I am not going to let them threat me like **** even though I can love them to the moon and back. And no I feel like if you really love someone yu don't want to hurt them. Because their pain will hurt you.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

I'd say definitely. I love my wife with all of my heart, but it seems I cause her a lot of hurt. Its not that I want her to feel bad normally, but when I have those feelings, I do. If your spouse has a strong urge to masturbate to porn (not sure, just basing this on what those above said), I'd say that has nothing to do with how he feels toward you all of the time he's not doing as such.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

A person in that situation may feel they love the person they hurt. But the truth is that they don't love that person very much - not even close.

Let's look at a common example - a person not meeting his or partner's sexual need. If I repeatedly deny my partner intimacy when I know it hurts her, I am making a value judgment that hurting her repeatedly is better than taking on some of that discomfort myself. And if I do that, the best I can say is "sorry but she's not worth the effort to treat her better".


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Saibasu said:


> I want your opinion. Your unfiltered no holds barred opinion.
> 
> Can you actually love someone and still choose to do things that hurt them repeatedly? Or is it a clear cut sign that the love isn't real? Or is it possible but you are just too selfish to make better choices? Or is there a purposeful disconnect you do to make both acceptable until found out?
> 
> Basically, if you know an action will deeply hurt your partner, could you still choose to do it even though you love them?


Yes. Love is an emotion and does not always adhere to logic. Loving someone doesn't mean that you know how to properly express that love such that they receive that feeling from you. It also doesn't mean that you don't place other things above that love. Sure there is the romanticized idea of what love is supposed to be, but that's simply not reality. It does work for some and others it does not.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Saibasu said:


> It's a long and overused story I assure you. But yes, I have found myself saying the very same lately. Because love is only one part of a rather large puzzle.


Given this comment, I will add that love by itself is not enough to ensure a long term relationship. It's a contributor, to be sure. But other factors are required, including skills on the part of all involved parties, in order to make a LTR work.


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## .339971 (Sep 12, 2019)

Yes. I loved someone deeply recently (still do) except she just didn't ever know how much. I never told her and I think that the friendship that we had is a done deal. Not trying to steal your thread, but there's just been a lot of fighting lately over sometimes and serious silly things probably because we didn't speak our minds entirely and feelings developed on both sides. I only learned last week that the feeling was mutual. But it imploded. But I also think that hurting a friend, potential partner or partner just comes with the territory. People are going to get hurt. You can hurt them and still very much love them.


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

Again, I'll say one hundred percent. In-fact, I'll go even further and say those who have never been so upset that they've done something hurtful toward their partner, they do not really have any love for them at all. I think this whole culture of medicated PC robot love is absurd. Love is passion and emotion. It's impossible for this to always be positive. If there is no negativity in a relationship, it's because neither side really cares at all.


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## desiresmore (Oct 15, 2013)

There are also other ways to both love someone and hurt them. Not necessarily intentionally, often times its the little things, small choices or inaction that hurt the other person. These situations are often made worse when the spouse/partner knows that their actions/inactions cause the hurt and yet still choose to ignore it and not change their behavior.


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