# How do I know if ... ?



## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

We have been married for almost 15 years. Our marriage feels "empty". All affection is gone and/or all affection I show is rejected. We sleep in separate rooms. We try to talk about it, or at least did until about 2 years ago, and I almost always get evasive answers. Sometimes I get a small concrete answer but I am criticized for trying to fix the problem because, I am told, I am supposed to keep the problem from ever happening in the first place. How do I know what the problem is? Am I the problem? Am I just whining? Am I just "throwing a pity party"? This behavior has gone on for years. All advice I receive fails. I don't know what to do.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

qazqaz said:


> We have been married for almost 15 years. Our marriage feels "empty". All affection is gone and/or all affection I show is rejected. We sleep in separate rooms. We try to talk about it, or at least did until about 2 years ago, and I almost always get evasive answers. Sometimes I get a small concrete answer but I am criticized for trying to fix the problem because, I am told, I am supposed to keep the problem from ever happening in the first place. How do I know what the problem is? Am I the problem? Am I just whining? Am I just "throwing a pity party"? This behavior has gone on for years. All advice I receive fails. I don't know what to do.


Is Marriage Counseling not an option? You sleep in separate rooms? Why is that? What happened 2 years ago?

No, you are not just "whining". Obviously something is wrong in the marriage. The options are to fix it or end it. You can suggest counseling, or you can seek the advise of an attorney. You and your spouse appear to be roommates, nothing more, at this point in time and it's time that you decide whether this lifestyle is acceptable to you or needs to change.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> The options are to fix it or end it. You can suggest counseling, or you can seek the advise of an attorney.


That's about it in a nutshell. You can't fix this problem on your own. If she is being evasive and/or defensive then there is a reason. Something is going on that is causing her to not face the problem. And like survivorwife asked --- What happened 2 years ago? What was the catalyst for sleeping in two separate rooms?


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## thompkevin (Jul 17, 2013)

You are not just whining. You have a genuine problem and you want to work on it with your partner. It's your partner who is insensitive and is not willing to work for your happiness.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

If your partner will not talk to you about it.. then try writing a letter. let him/her know how you feel about the situation.. and what your long term goals are for what you envision your future to be like after the marriage is fixed.

Ask for honest answers. But be prepared. If the other person has mentally & emotionally "checked out" of the marriage years & years ago.. it might be very hard to open up a line of communication again.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

survivorwife said:


> Is Marriage Counseling not an option? You sleep in separate rooms? Why is that? What happened 2 years ago?
> 
> No, you are not just "whining". Obviously something is wrong in the marriage. The options are to fix it or end it. You can suggest counseling, or you can seek the advise of an attorney. You and your spouse appear to be roommates, nothing more, at this point in time and it's time that you decide whether this lifestyle is acceptable to you or needs to change.


My spouse strongly suggested counselling years ago. I resisted the idea at first. As soon as I agreed, interest in the counselling disappeared and nothing came of it.

I am not exactly sure why We started sleeping in separate rooms. It just happened.

As far as 2 years ago, we just stopped. I don't know why. Maybe I got tired of what felt like a constant struggle which yielded no results.

I do want to fix this. While, years ago, counselling was possible, I think schedules preclude that option for now.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

thompkevin said:


> You are not just whining. You have a genuine problem and you want to work on it with your partner. It's your partner who is insensitive and is not willing to work for your happiness.


I am not sure about that because my spouse has made a number of sacrifices for me in the past.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

Chelle D said:


> If your partner will not talk to you about it.. then try writing a letter. let him/her know how you feel about the situation.. and what your long term goals are for what you envision your future to be like after the marriage is fixed.
> 
> Ask for honest answers. But be prepared. If the other person has mentally & emotionally "checked out" of the marriage years & years ago.. it might be very hard to open up a line of communication again.


I actually tried this a few months back. We are not sure anything can be "fixed" because my spouse is convinced things will not change. Meanwhile, knowing myself as I do, I might be inclined to agree because, so often, once I find myself in a position to fix a problem of any sort, I find I just don't care anymore. I know it sounds horrible. It is just the way my mind works.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

qazqaz said:


> I am not sure about that because my spouse has made a number of sacrifices for me in the past.


Come to think of it, my spouse may think I owe something for the sacrifices made. Given the nature and number of those sacrifices, I am not inclined to argue such a point.

At the same time, if my spouse could hear me say this, my spouse might also say I was being over dramatic, which is also a possibility.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

I find it odd that you seem to have carefully chosen your words to completely avoid any mention of your gender. Why?


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

qazqaz said:


> Come to think of it, my spouse may think I owe something for the sacrifices made. Given the nature and number of those sacrifices, I am not inclined to argue such a point.
> 
> At the same time, if my spouse could hear me say this, my spouse might also say I was being over dramatic, which is also a possibility.


Maybe start another round of letters..... and don't discuss what is wrong in the marriage, or discuss the bad situation at all.. instead:

Acknowledge these sacrifices. Acknowledge the number of them, and the nature of them. Tell him/her that you appreciate that. Then list the things that you do really appreciate & value about your spouse. Remind spouse of the memories that you hold dear from the beginning of the marriage. Tell them you cherish those, and would like to work on rebuilding your involvement with each other & recapture those times.

Again, acknowledge the sacrifices again and tell whether you appreciate them, or which sacrifices were unnecessary and only caused grief for the spouse. Think of things you are willing to sacrifice for your spouse in order to get on better footing with each other. And commit to them in the letter. Ask for a reply on if it would be appreciated.. which sacrifices that you are willing to do would be most important to them?

In other words... maybe letters of communication that don't involve anything negative.. only positive thoughts of thankfulness, and appreciation.. will open some eyes.

So what if they'll say you are being over dramatic? At least it would be another shot at trying to save the marriage, or at least get some kind of working relationship going again.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> I find it odd that you seem to have carefully chosen your words to completely avoid any mention of your gender. Why?


I don't even know why gender matters. Please enlighten me. I have seen your responses to other posts. It's not so far fetched to say you are a bitter man that has problems with the ladies.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

zookeeper said:


> I find it odd that you seem to have carefully chosen your words to completely avoid any mention of your gender. Why?


Does this matter? Maybe it's a lesbian couple? Maybe a gay couple. Maybe a effeminate male with a dominant wife?

I agree that I do not see how it matters. He/She is just looking for friendly advice.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

IrishGirlVA said:


> I don't even know why gender matters. Please enlighten me. I have seen your responses to other posts. It's not so far fetched to say you are a bitter man that has problems with the ladies.


Thanks for your unsolicited opinion. I'll take it under advisement.



Chelle D said:


> Does this matter? Maybe it's a lesbian couple? Maybe a gay couple. Maybe a effeminate male with a dominant wife?
> 
> I agree that I do not see how it matters. He/She is just looking for friendly advice.


As a whole, men and women think and act differently about many things. Sex and intimacy are one of them. When a man chooses to sleep in a separate room it likely means something different than when a woman does so. Their genders are completley relevant in my opinion, which is no more or less valid than yours. 

It was a simple question that the OP can choose to answer or ignore. It took more work to type "my spouse" over and over in place of he/she. Seems to me there could be a relevant reason for that. Is the OP afraid that this person will find them on this board and there will be recriminations? Perhaps the OP is a man who feels emasculated that his wife won't sleep with him and made these unspecified sacrifices for. Just like a cheating spouse who trickle-truths, sometimes the person that needs help must be drawn out in order to get to the bottom of things.

I am not homosexual, but I would see that as potentially relevant too. Homosexuals face unique challenges in Western society and I'm sure that any homosexual members here could add useful insight to the conversation.

Was there something aggressive about my question that I just don't see?


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

zookeeper said:


> As a whole, men and women think and act differently about many things. Sex and intimacy are one of them. When a man chooses to sleep in a separate room it likely means something different than when a woman does so.


 True.


> Their genders are completley relevant in my opinion, which is no more or less valid than yours.


 Again, True. = true your opinion no less valid than mine. I still disagree that their genders are really relevant. but, we can agree to disagree about that.



> It was a simple question that the OP can choose to answer or ignore. It took more work to type "my spouse" over and over in place of he/she. Seems to me there could be a relevant reason for that.


 Probably.


> Is the OP afraid that this person will find them on this board and there will be recriminations? Perhaps the OP is a man who feels emasculated that his wife won't sleep with him and made these unspecified sacrifices for. Just like a cheating spouse who trickle-truths, sometimes the person that needs help must be drawn out in order to get to the bottom of things.


 Yes. Many times the poster does not want to open the whole situation to others.


> I am not homosexual, but I would see that as potentially relevant too. Homosexuals face unique challenges in Western society and I'm sure that any homosexual members here could add useful insight to the conversation.
> 
> Was there something aggressive about my question that I just don't see?


Only that maybe it seemed like if they did come back & say they were in a same sex marriage, that you might be having a negative feeling toward that. As a person with some very close relatives that are homosexual, I was ready to bash you over the head if you were going to do some gay-bashing.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

IrishGirlVA said:


> I don't even know why gender matters. Please enlighten me. I have seen your responses to other posts. It's not so far fetched to say you are a bitter man that has problems with the ladies.


Wow, that's quite a leap to say that about zookeeper.

Of course gender matters. Or I should say it could matter, depending on what the problem is. Men and women generally are different in a lot of ways. Also, in order to find answers to the problem, more information is better than less information.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

QQ- Maybe you've done this, but first thing I'd do is check phone records including texts for lots of calls to one number, also emails, (including sent folder which sometimes doesn't get deleted) for the last couple of years.

I'm not recommending that because I think spouse is cheating, but because it's so easy to do and it's something you have to rule out before proceeding. If spouse is in an affair, and you're not aware of it, there's nothing you can do to fix your marriage.

Also google something like signs of a cheating spouse to see if any apply, besides the one issue you're now experiencing.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

Chelle D said:


> Maybe start another round of letters..... and don't discuss what is wrong in the marriage, or discuss the bad situation at all.. instead:
> 
> Acknowledge these sacrifices. Acknowledge the number of them, and the nature of them. Tell him/her that you appreciate that. Then list the things that you do really appreciate & value about your spouse. Remind spouse of the memories that you hold dear from the beginning of the marriage. Tell them you cherish those, and would like to work on rebuilding your involvement with each other & recapture those times.
> 
> ...


Hmm, maybe. I will see what I can do. I know if I make the letter too large, I will get a suspicious, "Uh, what are you doing? What's going on?" So, I will have to take it slow and subtle but not too subtle so as to prevent deliberate defensive resistance.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Mini letters.

Maybe weekly... until they get suspicious.. then, skip a week or two. Keep 'em on the toes.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

Cubby said:


> QQ- Maybe you've done this, but first thing I'd do is check phone records including texts for lots of calls to one number, also emails, (including sent folder which sometimes doesn't get deleted) for the last couple of years.
> 
> I'm not recommending that because I think spouse is cheating, but because it's so easy to do and it's something you have to rule out before proceeding. If spouse is in an affair, and you're not aware of it, there's nothing you can do to fix your marriage.
> 
> Also google something like signs of a cheating spouse to see if any apply, besides the one issue you're now experiencing.


I thought about this. While people may think otherwise, I would actually prefer if my spouse was "cheating", as you say, because such would mean my spouse would still have what one might call "passion potential", even if not with me. If someone can make my spouse feel passion more than I, they can probably make my spouse happier than I and maximising my spouse's happiness is a primary, if not THE primary, goal I have for our relationship. While I obviously prefer to be the one to prompt passion the most, and the consequent happiness, if I am not, I am not.

In any event, no, my spouse is not engaged in such activities.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Are they on any kind of anti-social meds? or some depression meds? 
Many of those can inhibit any emotions, good or bad.

They are designed to limit the depressive thoughts, or the bad anxiety reactions.. but in reality, they also limit any happy & good feelings too. 

I would describe some I've seen on those as almost zoned out.. no passion for life at all... just floating along & don't even realize what river they are on.. whether it's a calm flowing stream, or raging rapids.


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## qazqaz (Jul 24, 2013)

No, no such medication.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm guessing you are in a gay relationship and you don't want to confuse the responses with that. Understood.

But your spouse is taking the woman's roll in this. He/she is a walk-away-wife. They don't come back after they leave emotionally. I hate to say it, but your marriage is over. Don't waste time on counseling. It's worthless usually when both parties give a ****. Your spouse does not.

Get out now. Save yourself as much anguish as possible. Work on yourself. It would be nice if your spouse would tell you what you did wrong so you can fix it for your next relationship, but that doesn't happen either.


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