# girls/guys night out



## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

I truly believe that couples can benefit from socializing with people other than their S/Os...duh. 

That said used to like going out with the guys to bars. I am easy to talk to and am approachable and admittedly a flirt by nature and admit to enjoying attention from other women. I can't say this is something that is important to me to do. I can kind of take it or leave it. 

I am just wondering if there are any women out there that are of the mindset that going to places that put you liquored up around single people is just kind of a bad idea in general. Some of my guy friends have chosen to making guys night at restaurants Our general thoughts are hat nothing good can come out of a night in a singles environment but, there are differences of opinion among us. 

Like most men (and women too) I like to look at the menu but, naturally i am on a strict menu. That said are environments breeding grounds for attractions, that could manifest themselves in dissatisfaction with current partner in times of marital challenges that we all face? 

Thoughts?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I think this all depends on if the people in the relationship are social or not. For instance... I'm not a very social person irl and prefer to do things that involve little to no people. So I wouldn't be doing a GNO and if I did... it wouldn't be at a bar or anything like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

I like bars, but I go to spend time with my buddies, not chat up the single women there. My wife would have a problem with that, and rightfully so. It's not a matter of whether I'd sleep with them. I wouldn't. It's just inappropriate and disrespectful to her, in my opinion.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Everybody is going to hate me after I say this but I can't hold it in anymore.

1) Nights out at a bar is a mistake. A little booze and the perfect figure is disaster once inhibitions are lowered.

2) Married women she refrain from GNO. I know how it sounds.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Everybody is going to hate me after I say this but I can't hold it in anymore.
> 
> 1) Nights out at a bar is a mistake. A little booze and the perfect figure is disaster once inhibitions are lowered.
> 
> 2) Married women she refrain from GNO. I know how it sounds.


Eh, depends on the person. My wife doesn't like alcohol. She might have a single drink, and hasn't had more than that in years, and most of her friends aren't big drinkers either. They sit and talk about their kids.

Me, I'll have a few but don't get nearly plastered enough to make the kind of errors in judgement that would be a problem.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'd be upset if my husband were to go to bars and flirt with other women even if he is on a "strict menu".

Therefore out of respect I wouldn't do that to him and he doesn't do that to me either.


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## regretful wife (May 6, 2012)

Well, I did that, and it has ended horribly.....

I understand the need for maybe having a drink every once in a while away from the husband, but why not at one of the girl's houses? Just have everyone bring what they like to drink, then mix it all up at the party. That way:
You are still with your friends
And you can drink 

Why go to a bar? Drink and socialize with the girls. Plus you get expensive food. But what does it also provide? Horny guys that want to get in my pants. 

And I don't plan to do any GNO anytime soon. 

Plus, I don't want my hubby going to any bars with his friends either! (then again, he can't, so I win there ) I don't want women approaching him, asking if he would like to dance, or if he would like to hang out later, or any of that! 

Bars are for singles to mingle. Not for married persons of either sex to go and be social.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Personally I know my guy likes the male bonding time, watching the game while someone serves him, and chowing down on some greasy bar food that he would otherwise never eat.

I like going out and dancing (he doesn't) about once a year to a bar and/or go out to a bar at a restaurant every couple months to have a few drinks and girl talk.

If this becomes frequent, or if eyes wander, it could be a problem. But excessive alcohol has never made me more inclined to sleep with someone when in a relationship. I can have a pleasant short conversation with a man, drop the fact I have a BF and excuse myself to the ladies room and they will be gone when I come back. Or turn to my girlfriend when I have 'closed' the conversation and continue.

It depends on the couple. My BF never cheated on his first wife of 11 years or a long distance engagement prior to that. I have no reason to think he would be tempted and I feel very confident about my own reactions. 

It's a nice luxury to be served and/or try drinks that have multiple ingredients you wouldn't bother to buy.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i dont think we are "GNO" type of people. we dont drink, everybody else we know does, we smoke, nobody else does.....

we dont like strip clubs, we both like to spend time together. we just had this conversation a few weeks ago, i dont mind the idea of him spending time with guy friends, but he isnt into what guy friends like to do.....

drink, go to strip clubs, and compare their chicks to other chicks, checking out other chicks, [now, of course i dont know if this actually happens, im just making a blanket statement]

for me personally, after 8 at night, the only thing i want to be doing is eating, watching tv on demand, or a movie from redbox, and getting ready to spend the next 4/5/6 hours with my husband one on one.

i like being out at the mall, or eating...but i dont like being around a group of people of whom are drunk, and its dark and loud, in a place thats not home. i dont like when someone touches me, or brushes up against me....in a dark, loud place, when they are drunk.

maybe im just strange, but i spend all day in heels, a dress, or skirt, around other people, i talk to everyone, i shop, and cook, and yell at kids all day, and clean...so at nite, i dont want to be bothered by anyone else, i just want jeans, and my nikes, and my husbands shirt, and my ecko hoddie.

again, maybe im just strange.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

His idea of GNO is watching the game and talking about random stuff with his guy friends, not comparing or checking out girls (of course he glances at pretty women but he's not an oogler - I can't get him to check out MY cleavage!)

My idea of GNO doesn't involve being dark or people touching... that's more dance club than bar and my only dance place isn't like that... I do like being snuggled up with him having a quiet night at home most nights.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I like going out and dancing (he doesn't) about once a year to a bar and/or go out to a bar at a restaurant every couple months to have a few drinks and girl talk.


I'd have a problem with my wife going dancing without me.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> His idea of GNO is watching the game and talking about random stuff with his guy friends, not comparing or checking out girls (of course he glances at pretty women but he's not an oogler - I can't get him to check out MY cleavage!)
> 
> My idea of GNO doesn't involve being dark or people touching... that's more dance club than bar and my only dance place isn't like that... I do like being snuggled up with him having a quiet night at home most nights.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Drover said:


> I'd have a problem with my wife going dancing without me.


Not dancing with men, btw - just a group of middle-aged women dancing with each other having fun! Absolutely no dancing with men. I would agree that's not cool.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Putting yourself into any situation in which alcohol and members of the opposite sex are included and your spouse is not is NEVER a good idea. Spending time with friends is great. Just do it somewhere where there aren't members of the opposite sex and alcohol together. If you want to get blitzed, go to someones house and just invite your same sex friends. If you want to go to a club, don't drink ANYthing. Better yet, don't go to a club. If you must have the club atmosphere, take your spouse and do GNO somewhere else.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

I think age comes into it. It's much more acceptable for younger couples to have nights out with their friends. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone who shares the views of most people who have posted in this thread. It would be seen as controlling and not trusting your partner. I'm not having a go at anyone, just saying I think age comes into it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Not dancing with men, btw - just a group of middle-aged women dancing with each other having fun! Absolutely no dancing with men. I would agree that's not cool.


I remember going out dancing with some friends once last year. It was really fun. I was out with a big group of people and we went to a club, it was good times. Drinking and dancing, no my wife was not there. Yah, I can admit, I was watching to see if any women there were noticing me. But no, didn't happen.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I think *EXPERIENCE* comes into it. It's much more acceptable for *INEXPERIENCED* couples to have nights out with their friends. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone who shares the views of most people who have posted in this thread. It would be seen as controlling and not trusting your partner. I'm not having a go at anyone, just saying I think *EXPERIENCE* comes into it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There, I fixed it for you


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

jfv said:


> There, I fixed it for you


Well that could be another way of putting it, not going to deny that. Just saying that in my generation, not allowing your partner to have a night out with their friends would be viewed as controlling. Right or wrong, it is what it is


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

I'm not that much older than you and i agree it would. So what? You can never allow others to decide where your boundaries are.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

jfv said:


> I'm not that much older than you and i agree it would. So what? You can never allow others to decide where your boundaries are.


I agree, just trying to make the point that there are different ways that society judges you, try telling a 20something year old, " yeah, I don't want you going out to a bar with your friends, because the opposite sex will be there". You would be viewed as a controlling insecure person. I think it's way easier for say a middle aged couple to come to the conclusion that GNO's/ BNO's aren't really acceptable anymore. Because in general they socialize in different ways to what a younger couple would anyway.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I agree, just trying to make the point that there are different ways that society judges you, try telling a 20something year old, " yeah, I don't want you going out to a bar with your friends, because the opposite sex will be there". You would be viewed as a controlling insecure person. *I think it's way easier for say a middle aged couple to come to the conclusion that GNO's/ BNO's aren't really acceptable anymore. Because in general they socialize in different ways to what a younger couple would anyway*.


Absolutely right.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I think age comes into it. It's much more acceptable for younger couples to have nights out with their friends. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone who shares the views of most people who have posted in this thread. It would be seen as controlling and not trusting your partner. I'm not having a go at anyone, just saying I think age comes into it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Even when we were 18/19/20/21/22/23 and so on, neither of us liked going out without each other. 

My friends always had GNO but I never wanted to go. I would be told I could go, but HE must stay home. 

And his friends would tell him I'm not allowed. Funny you say it would be seen as "controlling", because we would both be told not to let the bf/gf control what, who, why, and where. 

But, we both would lie and say "oh, I can't go because such-n-such said I so" They never knew we just didn't want to go.


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I agree, just trying to make the point that there are different ways that society judges you, try telling a 20something year old, " yeah, I don't want you going out to a bar with your friends, because the opposite sex will be there". You would be viewed as a controlling insecure person. I think it's way easier for say a middle aged couple to come to the conclusion that GNO's/ BNO's aren't really acceptable anymore. Because in general they socialize in different ways to what a younger couple would anyway.


That's true. Out of curiosity I went on a few websites primarily aimed at dating, singles, etc...where there seemed to be more of a population of younger people. And yeah, anytime somebody came in with a problem about their boyfriend/girlfriend going on BNO/GNO, or going on some sort of vacation without them, the majority of the posters immediately wrote them off as controlling / insecure, and said things like "what are you, their mom/dad?". 

In that vein, I don't really see a problem with going out with friends alone, depending on what you / they are planning on doing. If the night out entails shopping, movies, hanging out at a same-sex friend's house, a restaurant, or even a bar for the purpose of just hanging out, then that would be totally fine. But if the intent is to go to strip clubs, nightclubs and what-have-you, then that's not okay. My boyfriend and I made a pact not to go to clubs without the other, because we both know what goes on there and the kind of temptation that arises  We love each other, but sometimes we do just need a night or day just with our friends...once in a long while.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I wouldn't go to a meat-market bar alone, or get drunk in a bar. 

But my wife or I might go to a bar after work with friends and I often go to bars without her where friends' bands are playing. Certainly I have had opportunities but I haven't taken them.

So I think it depends on what bar, and what crowd you are going with.


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## La Rose Noire (Jun 20, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I agree, just trying to make the point that there are different ways that society judges you, try telling a 20something year old, " yeah, I don't want you going out to a bar with your friends, because the opposite sex will be there". You would be viewed as a controlling insecure person. I think it's way easier for say a middle aged couple to come to the conclusion that GNO's/ BNO's aren't really acceptable anymore. Because in general they socialize in different ways to what a younger couple would anyway.


This is one of the reasons I prefer to date older men. I'm old school. I would not be cool with a man going out to bars regularly or clubs. I remember a couple of years ago, this guy my age was smitten by me, but when I told him I was taking a friend out clubbing (I was single, she was married and her husband encouraged it), he said "Oh will she sleep over at your place?". I told him of course not, she's married. His response? "So?". Yeah, not down with that. Young people don't care if their SOs/spouses go on party vacations without them. They think you're controlling if you're not okay with it. I'm not down with that either. 

When either of us go out with the girls/guys, we usually just go to dinner. Not much drinking or partying involved. I prefer it that way.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I think age comes into it. It's much more acceptable for younger couples to have nights out with their friends. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone who shares the views of most people who have posted in this thread. It would be seen as controlling and not trusting your partner. I'm not having a go at anyone, just saying I think age comes into it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, there is no substitute for experience. I too at that age was very naive. Many folks do not become comfortable with their own identity until later in life. So they bend to peer pressure quite readily and are even influneced by being called believe this or not ... controlling. They actually let others calling them this influenece their behavior and judegment. Unbelieveable? Yes. Too often the case however. Some folks just have to learn the hard way.

Mariage is about love and respect. Trust is a by product. Blind trust is naive, lazy and often ambivalent.

You yourself have only been married a few years and have been having an affair while your wife was pregnant. So if your wife objected to your affair would she be called jealous, insecure and controlling by those same folks? Sure she would. At some point one needs to grow beyond that stuff.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Whoa ok I'm 25 and have been with my SO for damn near 5 years and not once did I view him not wanting me to have a GNO as controlling. You generalize to much mrnotsoright. Not every young couple sees things that way. I have had other try to tell me this or that was controlling and I just laughed in their face. I guess I'm weird that way but I have always respected my SO and his boundaries on things like this... and he respected mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tonyarz (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't go to bars without my wife. My wife does go to bars with her girlfriends and I don't mind.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Whoa ok I'm 25 and have been with my SO for damn near 5 years and not once did I view him not wanting me to have a GNO as controlling. You generalize to much mrnotsoright. Not every young couple sees things that way. I have had other try to tell me this or that was controlling and I just laughed in their face. I guess I'm weird that way but I have always respected my SO and his boundaries on things like this... and he respected mine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't say every young couple, and the reality is that you are in the minority. I don't know anyone my age who would share the views expressed on this thread for the reasons I have already outlined. By the way, I agree with you, if we all were like you the world would be a better place, but the reality is different.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes, there is no substitute for experience. I too at that age was very naive. Many folks do not become comfortable with their own identity until later in life. So they bend to peer pressure quite readily and are even influneced by being called believe this or not ... controlling. They actually let others calling them this influenece their behavior and judegment. Unbelieveable? Yes. Too often the case however. Some folks just have to learn the hard way.
> 
> Mariage is about love and respect. Trust is a by product. Blind trust is naive, lazy and often ambivalent.
> 
> You yourself have only been married a few years and have been having an affair while your wife was pregnant. So if your wife objected to your affair would she be called jealous, insecure and controlling by those same folks? Sure she would. At some point one needs to grow beyond that stuff.


You are spot on with this. Though I think there is a massive difference between what I did and going out to a bar with your friends. 

People my age are scared to tell their partners they aren't comfortable with this socialising , because society dosnt let us, it teaches us that this is normal, that's the reality. The point I'm making is that it's easier for a middle aged couple to come out and say "I'm not comfortable with that, I would rather you wouldn't do it" because society allows them to have that viewpoint, that's were it becomes an age thing in my opinion.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Everybody is just so concerned about being politically correct that they forget that political correctness isn't always the way to happiness. In this case often it is not at all.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Some of it is motivations too.
> 
> I'm one of those who goes out on GNOs to large venues with dudes looking to score and I drink while I'm there.
> 
> ...



Exactly, too many posters here assume things, you are out to have fun with your friends, not troll for guys. I don't think a GNO's or BNO's has to be such a big deal, at the end of the day it's down to the individual. A cheater will cheat regardless, a loyal person will have fun with their friends and come home. You either trust your partner or you don't


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I didn't say every young couple, and the reality is that you are in the minority. I don't know anyone my age who would share the views expressed on this thread for the reasons I have already outlined. By the way, I agree with you, if we all were like you the world would be a better place, but the reality is different.


These are the circles you live in. The people you choose to be around. The life style.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> These are the circles you live in. The people you choose to be around. The life style.


To an extent yes, but I would say with confidence that the majority of my age group would share these views. You see it everywhere, not just amongst my friends. Of course there will be exceptions to this, but my point is society, media, everything is geared at going out, drinking,dancing, going to gigs, clubs etc.

You can't deny that it is much easier for a middle aged couple to say no to GNO's/BNO's, things have changed, society has changed, for the better?, no I didn't say that. But that's the way it is


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Putting yourself into any situation in which alcohol and members of the opposite sex are included and your spouse is not is NEVER a good idea. Spending time with friends is great. Just do it somewhere where there aren't members of the opposite sex and alcohol together. If you want to get blitzed, go to someones house and just invite your same sex friends. If you want to go to a club, don't drink ANYthing. Better yet, don't go to a club. If you must have the club atmosphere, take your spouse and do GNO somewhere else.


Good point. 

BNO's and GNOs are always a major way in which cheaters meet their affair partners. 

My STBEH was big one for BNOs and I later learned he was with a gal friend not guy friends as he promised. 

Same goes for men's only, or girl's only vacations.. My spouse used those to go away with his lover. 

I never had any desire to go on GNO. I did go to friends homes to meet for lunch or to a museum or out to lunch at a restaurant. 

As someone else mentioned: Bars are places for singles to mingle. 

If a married guy needs to hang out in a bar, it's a red flag for cheating IMO.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> Exactly, too many posters here assume things, you are out to have fun with your friends, not troll for guys. I don't think a GNO's or BNO's has to be such a big deal, at the end of the day it's down to the individual. A cheater will cheat regardless, a loyal person will have fun with their friends and come home. You either trust your partner or you don't


Yes. I agree, a cheater will cheat regardless. 

Still, BNO's and GNOs make it so much easier. 

Particularly if the wife is trusting and not snoopy, as I was. 

While my spouse was cheating he always said I could come and meet him for a drink. 

But really I didn't want to intrude on his supposed male bonding thing. 

So, I never went and he knew it. So, he even told me to check on him while he was cheating 

How deceptive and cunning is that. 

Cheaters can be very cunning in order to get their fix, just like a drug addict. 

An affair is an addiction, an addiction to new romance and new sex and the fantasy life an affair enables.....no bills, all dressed up whenever the two meet, all happy and sexy and only good times to be had.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Good point.
> 
> BNO's and GNOs are always a major way in which cheaters meet their affair partners.
> 
> ...


You see, whilst I see where you are coming from I think you are being too black and white about it. You have a bad personal experience and it makes you biased. Like I said, it's down to the individual not the situation. There isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm sorry but or a girl or a guy who enjoys a drink and a dance with their friends is not automatically a cheater. I mean that sounds ridiculas to me. It's a subject that interests me, because I believe that older generations struggle to realise that society has changed, again I didn't say for the better.

I cheated because I'm an idiot, not because of a BNO, me the individual has a flaw, not the situation. I know many people in serious long term relationships that enjoy a good GNO/ BNO, are they red flags for cheating? no they certainly aren't. They have trusting relationships and are loyal to there partner.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

The need for BNO/GNO is indicative of someone that is not yet ready for marriage, and somethat that should be single. BNO/GNO has no place in a marriage.

Our society frowns on people that have a problem with BNO/GNO's and this pressure makes the other spouse from making an issue with the spouse that has that need for BNO/GNO.

Those that do BNO/GNO often have an alcohol-centric life, and that can lead to other things like EA's and PA's.

The wife and I have no time for BNO/GNO because we are too busy being happy together, doing things together, loving each other, making plans together, creating our future....a strong healthy marriage has little time for BNO/GNO's.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Yes. I agree, a cheater will cheat regardless.
> 
> Still, BNO's and GNOs make it so much easier.
> 
> ...



Agreed, if you go out looking for it, you will get it, but again, that's down to the individual not the fact they go out with friends. I know good people who go out clubbing with friends, they aren't cheating, they enjoy it. Of course there has to be boundaries within this, for example you should make your partner welcome if they want to join in. 

In your case your husband didnt make you welcome to join in, and that is wrong, and it's a red flag, you are right about that. Like a previous poster has stated, solid boundaries within the night out is the key here.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

It can be said that these things are a generational thing. There is truth do this. One of the things that I find is that some of the things that my dad told me when I was young had real truth. I chose not to listen because he “just didn’t understand” retrospectively I learned he got understood in ways that I could not comprehend and truthfully sometimes you have to live through things to really understand. Unfortunately you could have taken advantage of that wisdom at an earlier age. 

I too used to engage in the BNO and therefore could not say no to the GNO. Much of the pressure to do so is based on the alchohal centric society that exists. Now I love do drink and think it is a great social lubricant. 

The fact is that you can dance, drink, eat and listen to music at home or with your spouse. Why do you need to put things at risk. I trust that my I am a good driver but, where a seatbelt. I am a great snowboarder but, wear a helmet. Suppose after a rough spell with my wife a hottie tugs on my loins (proverbially) and I do something foolish. Even if I don’t do anything I may think of her hot little body. I am a pig like most men. Well-intended but, a pig under nonetheless. I have never cheated and have no intentions to cheat but, also have come to the conclusion that not much good comes from BNO that you can’t get from going to your buddy’s house and playing poker, or whatever. Granted you won’t be able to “check out the rack on the blonde in the red, dude” (which common is most of what we wind up talking about) but, is that healthy anyway. Trust me when I say that many a trustworthy men have found themselves in bad situations despite all good intentions.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I didn't say every young couple, and the reality is that you are in the minority. I don't know anyone my age who would share the views expressed on this thread for the reasons I have already outlined. By the way, I agree with you, if we all were like you the world would be a better place, but the reality is different.


Oh trust me... I know full well we are in the minority with our views and have actually gotten grief from those around our age group about it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

tjohnson said:


> It can be said that these things are a generational thing. There is truth do this. One of the things that I find is that some of the things that my dad told me when I was young had real truth. I chose not to listen because he “just didn’t understand” retrospectively I learned he got understood in ways that I could not comprehend and truthfully sometimes you have to live through things to really understand. Unfortunately you could have taken advantage of that wisdom at an earlier age.
> 
> I too used to engage in the BNO and therefore could not say no to the GNO. Much of the pressure to do so is based on the alchohal centric society that exists. Now I love do drink and think it is a great social lubricant.
> 
> The fact is that you can dance, drink, eat and listen to music at home or with your spouse. Why do you need to put things at risk. I trust that my I am a good driver but, where a seatbelt. I am a great snowboarder but, wear a helmet. Suppose after a rough spell with my wife a hottie tugs on my loins (proverbially) and I do something foolish. Even if I don’t do anything I may think of her hot little body. I am a pig like most men. Well-intended but, a pig under nonetheless. I have never cheated and have no intentions to cheat but, also have come to the conclusion that not much good comes from BNO that you can’t get from going to your buddy’s house and playing poker, or whatever. Granted you won’t be able to “check out the rack on the blonde in the red, dude” (which common is most of what we wind up talking about) but, is that healthy anyway. Trust me when I say that many a trustworthy men have found themselves in bad situations despite all good intentions.


Good post, but "A generational thing"? You really think that GNO/BNO's are a new thing? 

GNO/BNO's have been going on since the 1950's if not before then in American society; especially the 1960s and beyond that.

They were bad back then for marriages, and they are bad today for marriages.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Oh trust me... I know full well we are in the minority with our views and have actually gotten grief from those around our age group about it too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's a compliment to be in the minority on this issue. The majority has a much higher divorce rate. ;-)

Often, going with the crowd is to be like "everyone else", and that's often not good. We live in the "everyone else is doing it" generation, and we know how most of them end up. ;-)


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> You see, whilst I see where you are coming from I think you are being too black and white about it. You have a bad personal experience and it makes you biased. Like I said, it's down to the individual not the situation. There isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm sorry but or a girl or a guy who enjoys a drink and a dance with their friends is not automatically a cheater. I mean that sounds ridiculas to me. It's a subject that interests me, because I believe that older generations struggle to realise that society has changed, again I didn't say for the better.
> 
> I cheated because I'm an idiot, not because of a BNO, me the individual has a flaw, not the situation. I know many people in serious long term relationships that enjoy a good GNO/ BNO, are they red flags for cheating? no they certainly aren't. They have trusting relationships and are loyal to there partner.


As I recall you cheated on your pregnant wife.

Does that make you biased?

If I were you and sincerely wanted my wife to regain trust in me, as you claim, to salvage your relationship. I think you might want to sincerely consider forgoing BNOs'

My STBEH wants to reconcile, even though I have filed. 

I am not considering it. But if I were one condition would be no BNO's. 

But, you know what I have decided better yet, I am checking out of the marriage and if I date again, I want to find a man who does not need to go on BNOs

I see plenty of those here on Tam, and there are even men who advise against BNOs

They say they go out as a couple or not at all.

BTW: None of the men in my couples friends circle went on BNOs except my spouse. I am the only couple in the circle who has been cheated on.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> You are spot on with this. Though I think there is a massive difference between what I did and going out to a bar with your friends.
> 
> People my age are scared to tell their partners they aren't comfortable with this socialising , because society dosnt let us, it teaches us that this is normal, that's the reality. The point I'm making is that it's easier for a middle aged couple to come out and say "I'm not comfortable with that, I would rather you wouldn't do it" because society allows them to have that viewpoint, that's were it becomes an age thing in my opinion.


I agree with you. Many people are indeed afraid to have these boundaries. It is not just age specific but I agree there is a skew to this.

I do think this is natural. Some amount of idealism and naivete. Younger people are typically all about friends. It is a transition to marriage. Some folks never mentally leave high school or college ... ever.

I "settled" down at 23. It did however take some time to distance myself from some of the friends that I had prior. They just flat lived in a different world from where I was headed. 

It is people transitioning from an open life style of being single to BF / GF stuff. When they marry they very much hang on to the BF / GF phase for a while.

This also shows up in the OSFs discussions. Those seem skewed across gender. 

I see a really social / political agenda focused within or on younger folks on many forums. Any guy questioning behavior is immediately beat down as having severe problems of control. That there is something wrong with him. This however does not seem natural to me. This seems like an actual agenda. It is pervasive. Many of those view though come from unmarried folks. Or folks who have been married less than ten years. Not always, just typically.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> As I recall you cheated on your pregnant wife.
> 
> Does that make you biased?
> 
> ...


I don't go on BNO's, once in a blue moon if I do. I'm talking about my peers and people I know. I'm not disagreeing with you by any means, I'm making the point that we young people are viewed as controlling if we object to GNO/BNO. That's the society that we live in, most young people don't want to be viewed that way, so they don't say anything, even if they believe they are right


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> Some of it is motivations too.
> 
> I'm one of those who goes out on GNOs to large venues with dudes looking to score and I drink while I'm there.
> 
> ...


Nice post. Few folks who say they have these type of events elaborate on boundaries. 

The last part is critical.


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## Mr.not.so.right (Aug 28, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I agree with you. Many people are indeed afraid to have these boundaries. It is not just age specific but I agree there is a skew to this.
> 
> I do think this is natural. Some amount of idealism and naivete. Younger people are typically all about friends. It is a transition to marriage. Some folks never mentally leave high school or college ... ever.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth I agree with you, but it's not cool for me to say that in this society. That's the problem. Do I believe a person in a long term relationship has any business being in a nightclub at 3 in the morning without their partner? No not really. But I always believe that it's down to the individual in the long run, I do know plenty of people who have these nights out without any problems. It's about knowing your limits when it comes to alcohol mainly.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> Exactly, too many posters here assume things, you are out to have fun with your friends, not troll for guys. I don't think a GNO's or BNO's has to be such a big deal, at the end of the day it's down to the individual. A* cheater will cheat regardles*s, a loyal person will have fun with their friends and come home. You either trust your partner or you don't


This is the biggest and most common misconception about all of this. Boundaries are not intended to prevent cheaters from cheating. Cheaters will cheat.
It is just that these type of people are a very small minority of folks having marriage and infidelity issues.

Few people go out looking to cheat. They have inadequate boundaries and some amount of naivete. It is also ego. I was that way. You think you are immune. You are in control. You know you have good character. Before you know it the inner rationalization takes over to protect your self view. This helps deal with that character stuff. This is what history re-writing is about.

Add alcohol, throbbing music, sexy people, skilled and not so skilled predators and boundaries start sliding. Add flirting and touch. Add dancing and late hours. Now if dancing is up close and personal and / or involves grinding then lets get real. Not my main point here. Add allowing oneself to acquire new OSFs. That allows contact information to be exchanged. That encourages chatting online, texting and meeting for coffee or drinks. It encourgaes meeting up next time out. So these become more often.

It does not require a cheater. However, at some point which is open for debate cheating begins. Just depends on how you define cheating.

It is about risk for non cheaters. Non cheaters do inappropriate things that turn into unfaithfulness and can erode a marriage over time. Non marriage friendly GNOs / BNOs are part of the whole deal.

The most common oputcome when things start to go bad in my opinion is that the primary relationship sufferes while one of the spouses starts to cake eat. They do not see themselves as cheating. Pulling back this is really tough. This is where spouses get called controlling if they see things out of hand and their marriage faultering.

Happens ... a lot ... in different ways. Not saying this is always about this thread topic of gnos / bnos.

It no doubt happens on this website.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> For what it's worth I agree with you, but it's not cool for me to say that in this society. That's the problem. Do I believe a person in a long term relationship has any business being in a nightclub at 3 in the morning without their partner? No not really. But I always believe that it's down to the individual in the long run, I do know plenty of people who have these nights out without any problems. It's about knowing your limits when it comes to alcohol mainly.


Think back to your Sociology class. You know the one that explains that society is an illusion. Not saying that living in society is not critical to our well being.

It is ALL made up stuff though. Yes we learn to get along but for many they realize that it is just flat made up. This works in all directions of course.

I am suggesting that we do not have to let society label us. They do not define who we are. The people calling is controlling are ... controling. People live in FEAR of what others might think of them instead of being themselves and living by their own values. No problem in listening to opinions but at the end of the day if someone is pushing you into an uncomfortable situation you don't have to go along with it.

There is a real agenda by some to push for more open marriages period. The biggest pendulum swing is for women to free themselves of old restraints, real and imagined. So guys get jumped on. Like not wanting your wife to spend the night over some dudes house is the same thing as wanting her to wear a buqua. After all you don't own her. You are not her dad. She owns her own body. You should just trust her. Yes this works both ways.

Some people draw the line at having GNOs and BNOs that do not involve the oppostie sex. That is a choice. Some only have these that allow them to get attention for the opposites sex. Then all the gray in between.

But my point is that one should allow peer pressure to compromise their fundamental boundaries.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

tjohnson said:


> I truly believe that couples can benefit from socializing with people other than their S/Os...duh.
> 
> Thoughts?


I don't believe there is anything wrong with socializing with people other than your spouse. In fact I think it is healthy. 

It's been suggested that going out without your spouse is a recipe for something untoward to happen. To me that's like saying watching violent movies causes people to be violent. I don't agree. I think people who are violent are attracted to violent movies. By the same token anyone who wants to cheat is going to want to participate in GNO's and BNO's as they've been referred to. It doesn't mean a healthy person in a healthy marriage can't enjoy an evening out with friends and not be tempted to cheat.

As I see it if the only reason your partner doesn't cheat on you is because of lack of opportunity...you probably shouldn't be with that person in the first place.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

GNO's post marriage should be doing activities you enjoy with the friends you want to see. For instance.

My GNO is usually before noon. A buddy or two of mine go out, play a round of golf, hit the bar afterwards for a few beers and then head home. Or going out to watch a football game etc. It's NEVER going out to a singles joint to "live it up". 

My wife's GNO is usually afternoon or morning as well, with the rare night time. But it usually involves a meal (lunch or dinner) and shopping and talking with her friends.

It's important to socialize with other people outside your marriage, but it's the environment you pick and in turn what you're looking for that needs to be looked at.

What is the point for a married person to go out to a singles bar for a GNO? I can't think of one POSITIVE reason.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Mr.not.so.right said:


> I think age comes into it. It's much more acceptable for younger couples to have nights out with their friends. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone who shares the views of most people who have posted in this thread. It would be seen as controlling and not trusting your partner. I'm not having a go at anyone, just saying I think age comes into it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh, I hate being categorized into the "young" group even though I am in that age category. I don't drink much and I am not much a GNO fan. If I do have a GNO, it's more like me and a couple friends going to grab lunch or dinner and talking about whatever. I don't go to bars, clubs, etc. and I know my husband wouldn't want me to nor do I want to as 1) I respect his feelings and 2) I don't like it that much anyways. I definitely share the same views as many on here in not liking the idea of the GNO.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> GNO's post marriage should be doing activities you enjoy with the friends you want to see. For instance.
> 
> My GNO is usually before noon. A buddy or two of mine go out, play a round of golf, hit the bar afterwards for a few beers and then head home. Or going out to watch a football game etc. It's NEVER going out to a singles joint to "live it up".
> 
> ...


This is my wife and I.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

In a perfect world I would have no problems with a GNO for my wife. But I know men very well, and I also understand human behavior.

Think back to a time you were single. When I was single, I could literally feel the sexual energy of an interested woman. My sense of smell and vision would be heightened and my behaviour would change to suit what a woman is looking for. It was almost predatory the way I would approach this....

That is why GNO is no. Women almost always have no intention of even interacting with another man while out...but once dudes are on the prowl it's prehistoric. GNO at a place where single men will not be is a better idea, but I dont really "like" that because of the "jealous friend" reason. The saboteur.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

sinnister said:


> In a perfect world I would have no problems with a GNO for my wife. But I know men very well, and I also understand human behavior.
> 
> Think back to a time you were single. When I was single, I could literally feel the sexual energy of an interested woman. My sense of smell and vision would be heightened and my behaviour would change to suit what a woman is looking for. It was almost predatory the way I would approach this....
> 
> That is why GNO is no. Women almost always have no intention of even interacting with another man while out...but once dudes are on the prowl it's prehistoric. GNO at a place where single men will not be is a better idea, but I dont really "like" that because of the "jealous friend" reason. The saboteur.


You nailed it! :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Gaia said:


> Oh trust me... I know full well we are in the minority with our views and have actually gotten grief from those around our age group about it too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was thinking about this a while, and I don't think you and I are in the minority at all. I think we are very much the norm. 

I was just talking to my husband and we concluded that if the both of us used one another as a scape goat, then a lot of others do as well. 

Not saying you do/did this. I would hear very standard statements from friends, such as I'm being controlled, I'm controlling him. 

He and I NEED nay deserve time away from home. It's unhealthy to spend every waking moment together. You should be your own person. He's not your daddy (although funny, I resisted the urge to say, that's not what I was sayin last nite)

Your not a child. You don't owe him/her anything. 

In my eyes, any body who works that hard to convince me or him to go and hang out in some situation that's not conducive to the relationship. 

Esp if they are single. Most are. And in my experience the good ones don't ask you to go clubbin and the snake ones always pressure you to go. (the ones with a bf/gf at home)

Then again maybe we just needed a better caliber of friends.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

I am relieved to see some of you agree with my thoughts. My guy friends and i no longer suggest going to singles places. We may go to a not-crowded sportd bar and have dinner but, typically we go to resturaunts. 

The thing is my wife has a g/f who is a friend of recently jilted member of our group of 5 couples and now single. She has friends at work to go out with but, on the girl's night out (which consists all of maried wommen with 3-4 kids each) who are ready for the most part to pass out after dinner but, this "friend" insists they go here or there. 

Because as couples we sometimes go and get fired up and dancing etc. at singles places she does not see why we can't do the same when alone without Hubby.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

tjohnson said:


> I am relieved to see some of you agree with my thoughts. My guy friends and i no longer suggest going to singles places. We may go to a not-crowded sportd bar and have dinner but, typically we go to resturaunts.
> 
> The thing is my wife has a g/f who is a friend of recently jilted member of our group of 5 couples and now single. She has friends at work to go out with but, on the girl's night out (which consists all of maried wommen with 3-4 kids each) who are ready for the most part to pass out after dinner but, this "friend" insists they go here or there.
> 
> Because as couples we sometimes go and get fired up and dancing etc. at singles places she does not see why we can't do the same when alone without Hubby.



If she is becoming toxic remove her from "the list". It's simpler than you might think. She needs to realize her married female friends aren't that free to be sexing up in bars. If she doesn't then she must be removed as a bad influence.


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