# How would you handle this? Married 1 year, and your wife won't move to your city



## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

I'd love to get your input on this - particularly (but not necessarily exclusively) from guys. OK, here goes - my first time posting.

1. My wife and I met in grad school in Vancouver. We moved in together during school. A year after graduating, she moved back to her home town, San Jose, to help her family business. Her plan was 1 to 1.5 years tops, then move to one of 3 cities where I had job offers (which she had input into). I stayed in Vancouver where I accepted an amazing job that is terrific in terms of money, status, and enjoyment.

2. Then: suddenly a lot of subtle hints / pressure for a ring, as a condition of moving back. I broke up with her for 2 or 3 months. Got back together. Proposed.

3. Suddenly, she really wanted to be in San Jose. We reached a compromise: try out Vancouver for 3 years, then San Jose for 3 years, and keep open minded re: long term. 

4. One year later: she has NO intention of quitting her job. She is in Vancouver about 40-50% of the time, working remotely. She sees this as a huge sacrifice - if I say "when will you move here?" she says "I did, I do live here!". She keeps saying it will increase to 65-75%. It is NOT a "remote worker friendly" company - a lot of the travel is NOT reimbursed. 

5. We were responsible, but, she got pregnant. I told her I would 100% support her choice, but if she keeps the baby, she must move up ASAP. She chose to terminate. 

6. She now says she "hates" Vancouver and "no way" she would live here long term. She sometimes job hunts -- but not here! -- she looks in San Jose, New York, and all over the place. She also talks about getting another degree… also not here. 

7. She is actively looking for real estate to buy in San Jose, saying she "knows she wants to have a base there long term". This was supposedly as an "investment" (which I might be OK with, if it's amazing), but then she started saying she would stay there herself when in San Jose. I strongly objected and she backed down on that, for now. Though she is still looking all the time and uses this as another excuse to be in San Jose more often.

8. She says she needs to know my long term plan / goals, "so we can see if we are aligned or not". I resisted - I said we work on shared goals, not individual ones. I think that was a mistake. So now I am working on it. It is tough because I took the "keep an open mind" thing so seriously. And, I am discovering that I am not good at articulating what I want from life, except in vague terms. But I'm working on it. I asked her for some time for this.

Which of these strategies would you take?

--> Strategy A: Say that (1) she has to move to where you are, including leaving her "remote" job and finding a local one, (2) you have to agree with any decision for either of you to move anywhere, (3) she has to trust that you'll take her preferences into consideration, as a very important, but not sole, factor. Set a deadline and say she can't stay married to you if she doesn't comply.

--> Strategy B: Say that you should both look for opportunities in each other's cities, but if you don't find good ones, you find creative ways to make it work in the meantime. Even in this scenario you'll be unlikely to look in San Jose for at least 2-3 years as your current job is not yet finished.

I don't like Strategy A because I am afraid she will leave. But I don't like Strategy B because it's dishonest - the truth is I want to live with my wife, which was a big part of why I proposed in the first place!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Strategy C - divorce

She is both domineering and unwilling to compromise so early in the marriage when the two of you should be together all the time making love and being together

Whatever you do, don't get her pregnant again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Did she terminate without telling you? What Toffer said divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Did she terminate without telling you? What Toffer said divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I was unconditionally supportive of whatever decision she made. I went to the clinic with her and everything. 

She gave me every opportunity to express my preference, and have input into it, and I did not. In the heat of that moment, I thought I should stand back and just be supportive. In hindsight I think this was a big mistake on my part - I should have been supportive of it being her choice, but also expressed my own opinion and preference - but hindsight is 20/20. It all happened pretty fast.

Divorce seems pretty harsh don't you think? I'm still in love with this woman and it's barely been a year!


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

She terminated your pregnancy to avoid moving to the city where you live. I find that shocking and horrifying. And I am 100% pro choice.

I'm sorry dude, not wife material.

Strategy C.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Brinseed said:


> Divorce seems pretty harsh don't you think? I'm still in love with this woman and it's barely been a year!


How is the sex? During the limited time you are together of course.


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

east2west said:


> She terminated your pregnancy to avoid moving to the city where you live. I find that shocking and horrifying. And I am 100% pro choice.
> 
> I'm sorry dude, not wife material.
> 
> Strategy C.


she gave other reasons -- timing -- in particular we have been planning a honeymoon and she wanted to travel first. Just so you have her side of the story.


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

east2west said:


> How is the sex? During the limited time you are together of course.


Generally - over the course of our relationship it has been terrific.

Lately - it has been infrequent and bland, because we been fighting constantly. I'm hopeful that if we work things out it can get back to being good.


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions! 

Please comment and vote in the poll! Thanks :smthumbup:


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> A year after graduating, she moved back to her home town, San Jose, to help her family business. Her plan was 1 to 1.5 years tops, then move to one of 3 cities where I had job offers (which she had input into).





> suddenly a lot of subtle hints / pressure for a ring, as a condition of moving back.


Sounds like 'bait & switch".


> Suddenly, she really wanted to be in San Jose. We reached a compromise


 Apparently YOU reached a compromise, doesn't sound like SHE did.


> One year later: she has NO intention of quitting her job. She is in Vancouver about 40-50% of the time...if I say "when will you move here?" she says "I did, I do live here


 She has made her choice clear!


> she got pregnant. I told her I would 100% support her choice, but if she keeps the baby, she must move up ASAP. She chose to terminate





> in particular we have been planning a honeymoon and she wanted to travel first


She would rather go on a honeymoon, travel, and live in San Jose than be a mother right now; I make no judgement on that, YOU need to decide where YOU stand with regard to the parenting/honeymooning issues


> She now says she "hates" Vancouver and "no way" she would live here long term. She sometimes job hunts -- but not here! -- she looks in San Jose, New York, and all over the place. She also talks about getting another degree… also not here.


 Unless you're planning to LEAVE Vancouver, you're NOT going to be in a relationship with this woman; you might not LIKE the idea, but THAT'S A FACT!


> She is actively looking for real estate to buy in San Jose





> She says she needs to know my long term plan / goals, "so we can see if we are aligned or not".


 THAT is the purpose of dating/engagements.

I don't know why you ONLY wanted the guys' input; did you think we women would NOT be on your side because we don't have 'man parts'? because we wouldn't 'get it'? because we're automatically gender-biased?

As a woman, I'll tell you flat out that YOUR WIFE does NOT see you as 'Mr. Right'. She sees you as 'Mr. Right Now.' If you were the man of her dreams, the man she sees herself with 'forever', the father of her children, there is NOTHING that would keep her from living in Vancouver! NOTHING! Especially as she knows it is short-term (maybe as little as two more years.)

She had SOME agenda for getting married (pressuring for the ring as a condition of moving to Vancouver...which she NEVER did!), but she does NOT view you as a FOREVER husband. I believe when she finds someone else in San Jose, or New York, or wherever she decides to go to school, she'll dump you and tell you how you've "outgrown' each other...or some equally nauseating B.S.

Honestly, you're headed for divorce. Do yourself a favor and file now, file early. The less time you spend in this see-saw relationship, begging for recognition as her husband, the easier it will be to forget this mess and move on.

This is NOT a woman who compromises. You'll either do it HER WAY, or she'll leave you (weeks/months/couple years).


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Both of you put your respective interests ahead of the other. If you were both head over heels, I don't think this would be the case. You're future is in Vancouver and her's is in San Jose. There are other men in San Jose and other women in Vancouver.


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## Mishy (Mar 28, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Strategy C - divorce


:iagree:

Brinseed

I had a girlfriend that acted like that. She always came first, no matter what. I waited for her to graduate from university for 2 years, when initally, said it would only be 6 months. In the meantime I moved abroad to work, and when I asked her to come and stay with me for a couple of months she said 3 weeks were enough because she had to study.

Only after I left her I realized how "brainwashed" I was. There was alway another excuse or priority for her. 
It's better to part ways with people like that. If she truly loved you she would be happy anywhere you are. You live only once..


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of your input. 

I really want to try to make my marriage work -- I take the commitment thing seriously -- I know it's a tough problem but I don't want to run away from it. Despite these issues I'm very much in love my wife and I would love for us to have a great future together, which I think we can do if we got over this geographic issue.

Also, I am wondering if I share some of the blame -- could it be that her hesitation to move is partly due to me not being firm enough? So far, each time I try to be firm, it leads to horrible fights. But, I'm not completely consistent - in my quest to be a "supportive" man I have often said it's fine for her to live in the US (not lately, but initially).

One more thing to note. I don't mind moving to San Jose -- even though it is definitely a sacrifice (I have a lot going for me here, and virtually nothing going for me down there... yet) -- I will gladly do it for her! -- the only thing is that: (1) I can't do it *today* - it would be foolish to mess up my current career situation, where I would look very very bad if I quit before completing at least 3-4 years and accomplishing certain key milestones; and (2) I need some assurance that if it *doesn't* turn out well for me down there, I won't have to live there regardless. In other words, I'm very open to trying it out, genuinely and truly, just not quite yet.

When I tell her this, she says that this counts for nothing because she is the only one sacrificing today [by commuting back and forth]. It seems to come down to trust - she seems to doubt that I'll really do it, or she thinks that if she moves here first, it would be a slippery slope and we'd never end up moving to San Jose in a couple of years as planned. She says that her ability to trust men took a serious hit when I broke up with her 2 years ago. I find this incredibly frustrating, but, I can at least see where she is coming from. 

Does anyone have any suggestions other than telling me get a divorce, which I really don't want to do?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> Does anyone have any suggestions other than telling me *get a divorce, which I really don't want to do*?


NOBODY ever wants to get a divorce! Everyone gets married with the expectation that it will be FOREVER. Do not think that we blithely suggest 'get a divorce' like 'take an aspirin'; we don't. We know it's serious, a lot of us have been there/done that.

Just something to think about, brinseed.

BTW: Be extra careful with birth control UNTIL these issues are fully resolved. Another pregnancy will only muddy the waters further.

Good luck!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You have already stated the core issue at the bottom of your first post.

You are afraid if you do the wrong thing this woman will leave you.

Unfortunately, you have already done the wrong thing ... you married her. And neither of you are ready.

You have asked for options other than divorce.

That is very straightforward based upon the information you have provided.

Cave.

Do what she wants ... because if you don't want to lose her, it's pretty clear that's your only option.

I understand that you love this woman. You will, in time, come to understand that if love means compromising yourself and everything else you value in the name of love ... your partner will not value you.

I know how you would like this to turn out. I think what you need to come to terms with, if you want to stay with THIS woman, is that you are going to be settling for what she gives you ... rather than you being the architect of what you want.

I noticed that you consistently referred to 'we' in your post. The thing that I'm sure is difficult for you to understand, is that most of the folks responding to you, don't see a 'we'. It doesn't look like a partnership at all, and certainly isn't operating like one.

I do wish you well.

One way or another, life is about to teach you a very hard, valuable lesson.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I get the impression she's not all that committed to the marriage. You fear losing her more than she fears losing you. Do whatever you want, but I predict that this will not end well. Maybe 5 years, or a few more. She wants to be apart way too much. Have you thought about what (who) might be tying her to her city?


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## bennyLPJ (Dec 11, 2012)

Hey Brinseed.

Thanks for sharing your situation. It sounds incredibly difficult. I respect your struggle and the work you have put into your marriage, and I'll do my best to offer some help.

Also, I can certainly understand why so many of the replies here have leaned towards the divorce option. There is certainly grounds for that conclusion. With that said, I don't think its the best option (yet), and I believe that it is well within the realm of possibility to sort this all out. Here are the steps I would take, if I were in this situation.

1st - 
Continue to see your wife as the woman you love and want to spend your life with. Resist the tendency to see her in a negative light (even if its merited), because it will not make the process of finding a solution easier. (and solving this is your goal, right?) You can choose to see your wife as domineering and uncompromising, or you can see her as someone who is just as worried and confused as you, and someone who could really use a clear path (like the one I'm typing up here) to find a real solution to the situation. Its obvious which perspective gets your closer to a solution, isn't it?

2nd - 
Take a break from the "move here" conversation. During your serious conversations, spend time getting a crystal clear understanding of her priorities, and give her a crystal clear understanding of yours. Is it important to you to spend your life with THIS woman? More important then your location? More important then your current job? And for her... Is spending her life with YOU specifically important? More important then living in San Jose? More important then her current job? Having a crystal clear understanding of each others' priorities will make the "move here" conversation so much easier. 

3rd -
Once priorities are clear, seek solutions. When you do start the "move here" conversation again, make sure you have a purpose. The purpose is not to "change her mind," or be more firm/laid back, or to "win." The purpose of the conversation is to seek solutions, that's it. Together, list out all the possible solutions... including her moving to Vancouver full time... including you moving to San Jose full time, immediately... including divorce (and hopefully, probably a whole list of other possible options). Make sure you both know you're just making a list right now, no big life altering choices are being made right now. Then, see if any of the options you come up with match your top priorities. See if any of the options match her top priorities. In my experience, there are almost always options that meet both individual's priorities. If all of your options only match with one person's priorities, then keep seeking solutions... Establish each others' non-negotiable... "the hill to die on" if you will. And keep listing ideas, literally anything, be as creative as possible, until something meets both hills.

If after several conversations, and a great deal of effort by both of you, there is still absolutely no solutions that fit both of your priorities, ask some trusted friends for their suggestions. If there is still nothing... THEN maybe start considering divorce.

4th - 
Once you find a possible solution that fits both your priorities (I am hopeful and confident that you can), THEN you can finally start discussing the idea of actually using the solution in real life. Make sure you both understand exactly how this solution meets your priorities and gives you what you want. Also, make sure it is abundantly clear to each other what each person has to give up in the scenario, and make sure they know that this sacrifice is an act of love. No one is being pushed around. No one is forced to cave. Everyone's ideas and perspectives are heard, understood, and respected the whole way. This has been a completely joint decision... as it should be. Once its clear that it will work in real life, begin implementing it. 

(if after further discussion of details, the solution doesn't work, return to step 3)

5th - 
Celebrate it. You faced an enormous challenge together, and you got through. Nice work. 

So here it is again, in really simple terms:

1 - Love her.
2 - Understand Priorities.
3 - List Possible Solutions & See if they fit Priorities.
4 - Discuss the best fitting Solution. If it works well, Implement it.
5 - Celebrate.

Your good intentions and love for her are clear. You can do this. 

Well Wishes,

Ben


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## canopus (Dec 13, 2012)

the answer by "SlowlygettingWiser" is true...no more to add.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Brinseed said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions other than telling me get a divorce, which I really don't want to do?


Brinseed,

You certainly don't have to get a divorce, but you wife may want to if and when you start to respect yourself and set healthy boundaries. 

All of us, men and women, have to ask ourselves every day in every choice we make whether our choice demonstrates a priority of relationship or separateness. Your wife has made choice after choice that shows separateness is a greater priority for her than relationship. 

You are completely correct, you share the blame for this and the relationship answer is to share it equally. Yes, you have not been firm enough. You let conflict and a fear of "horrible fights" drive you into passivity. You need to be courageous in action and bring your concerns directly to her, letting her know your vision for your marriage. Don't allow yourself to be pulled into fighting, tell her your vision and leave it at that. But make sure you say it and say it clearly. She will go ahead and do whatever is in her heart and you can either factor that in and change your vision or not, depending on your level of conviction. But you need to communicate all this directly and clearly frequently. 

Let her make the choice to either buy into it or not. Making your desires known is not in itself unreasonable, mean spirited or unloving when it is done in a respectful and loving manner in the spirit of relationship. But not speaking up for whatever your reason, fear of conflict, laziness or a non-committal attitude will certainly create bigger problems later


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Brinseed you may want to hire a pi in san jose to see if there is a 3rd person in the marriage to rule that out because she is not acting like a newlywed.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bennyLPJ said:


> So here it is again, in really simple terms:
> 
> 1 - Love her.
> 2 - Understand Priorities.
> ...


I think this is great advice. So great that the OP did it the first time, only to have his wife ignore it. There was no celebration, but rather her telling him what he needs to do after she got the ring. So I am not sure what makes us think repeating this process will work better this time.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Brinseed said:


> Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of your input.
> 
> I really want to try to make my marriage work -- I take the commitment thing seriously -- I know it's a tough problem but I don't want to run away from it. Despite these issues I'm very much in love my wife and I would love for us to have a great future together, which I think we can do if we got over this geographic issue.
> 
> ...


Sooo, let me get this straight. You lived together. Then her family had issues and she moved with a promise it was going to be one to 1.5 years max. Then she backed out of that promise. Then she said if you married her, she'd move. Then she backed out of that. And SHE has trust issues with YOU?!!!

"Counts for nothing"? She sounds very manipulative and unappreciative. You made a sacrafice of a long distance relationship when she went back. And now she wants to change the terms? She wants sympathy for her "sacrafice" when they were created by her and for her benefit? She is joking, right?

In just my opinion, if you want your marriage to work, it is time to give her an ultimatum with a firm deadline and stick to it. LDR's almost never work, especially for an extended period of time. They can work in a solid relationship where a timeline is made and agreed to, and then kept. But an open ended LDR with ever changing end dates? The odds on that working are astronomical.

She doesn't appear to want this or care as much as you do. Time to calmly tell her this arrangement is no longer working for you, that she has twice now extended the timeline, and there won't be a third. Then let her make the decision. And hold her to it.

Left as it is now your marriage is doomed because she's happy the way things are for the moment. But over time, one of you (if she hasn't already) will meet someone else, and the divorce will be on. The way she talks, disrespects you and the marriage along with the agreements you had (and subsequent blame shifting, i.e. "after what you did I don't trust men") does make me lean in the direction of thinking she's doing a little cake eating. I'd start looking for evidence of someone else. People in love generally can't stand to be away from each other for any real length of time. She's not acting that way.

I went through an LDR marriage period recently. And it went NOTHING like that. We did great, and it was still pretty rough on us being apart. For four months! And then a mutually agreed upon additional two months because we loved where she was at and wanted to experience it together a bit longer. And our relationship appeared strong as ever. Thankfully it is over now (the LDR portion, lol, not the relationship).

Like I told her when I initially agreed to it... LDR's will expose a relationships weaknesses which could otherwise not be known for years, or possibly ever if you happen to be lucky and not fall upon difficult times. And while fearful of the LDR, I was looking forward to getting through it and gaining the confidence that would give us on how strong we were, OR coversely finding out now rather than later if we had weaknesses which should cause us to go our seperate ways.

I think you're seeing some real relationship weaknesses exposed here, and should take serious note of them before deciding how to proceed.


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## bennyLPJ (Dec 11, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this is great advice. So great that the OP did it the first time, only to have his wife ignore it. There was no celebration, but rather her telling him what he needs to do after she got the ring. So I am not sure what makes us think repeating this process will work better this time.


People learn from their mistakes. Assuming you're correct, and this is what the OP and his wife did at the beginning, then the solution they chose was obviously the wrong one. This happens all the time. In marriage/work/parenting/life... we try to find the best solution to what we are faced with. Then we implement. If it doesn't work, we pick a new one. This is a common life pattern. If we refuse to find a new solution, we never achieve our objective, in this case, the OP wants a happy, fully present marriage. If his previous solution didn't work. No big deal. Learn from it, and chose a better one. Just like we all do.

I certainly respect the idea Tall Average Guy proposed above, but I wouldn't do it. I think decisions like this should be made together. Create your vision together, by brainstorming solutions and finding what works best for both of you. Creating your vision alone and giving her the option to "buy in" or not limits your options, and most importantly shuts down the conversation. Don't make her need to "talk you out of your vision" in order to find something that works for both of you. Enter the conversation with this vision: We will create what we want together. 

And to address the point regarding "telling him what he needs." If your spouse begins unilaterally making demands and telling you what to think/do/believe/etc... then THAT behavior is what you stand up to and be bold with. Don't say "It's my vision or no vision." Something like "Look, that's not how this is going to work. This decision effects both you and me, as well as our entire future. We are going to make it together, and agree on it together. You won't be deciding my actions for me." Address the behavior/attitude specifically, not the problem you're trying to solve. Don't blur attitudes/behaviors together with the real topic.

Hope that makes sense. Either way, thanks for the interaction Tall Average Guy. I appreciate your thoughts.

Well wishes,

Ben


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The "geographic issue" is really not the issue here. You have been given some really good, solid advice from folks here, I think you are in a lot of denial about the kind of person you chose to marry.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't do distance, I vote A

I don't believe in strategy C, that's not even giving her a chance to reform. Strategy A which you described - an ultimatum, and being prepared to walk if she doesn't comply is much more balanced.

B is just stupid btw.


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## bouillon (Nov 13, 2012)

You both agreed to abort the birth of your child to remain in your respective cities and to possibly go on a honeymoon... 

That was a major test and you both showed that you are incredibly selfish. IMO that's messed up from whatever angle you look at it. Its a cold world.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I had thought that too. Basically she so wanted to avoid living with OP that she was willing to get an abortion to avoid it. And he was so passive about it that he was fine with it to. I can't really wrap my mind around that. And I'm pro choice.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Slowlygettingwiser said: THAT is the purpose of dating/engagements.
> _
> I don't know why you ONLY wanted the guys' input; did you think we women would NOT be on your side because we don't have 'man parts'? because we wouldn't 'get it'? because we're automatically gender-biased?_
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Your W has reneged on an agreement reached before you put a ring on her finger, and about something that could have well affected your decision to propose to her in the first place... Further, she expects you to now compromise, but is not prepared to do so herself.

I'm sorry, OP, but unless your W is prepared to so much as compromise on this issue, I don't see a way forward for you both.


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## bouillon (Nov 13, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I had thought that too. Basically she so wanted to avoid living with OP that she was willing to get an abortion to avoid it. And he was so passive about it that he was fine with it to. I can't really wrap my mind around that. And I'm pro choice.


I'm pro choice as well; I believe that there are situations where abortion is necessary. The OPs situation might just have necessitated it. The two parents cant agree on a location for cohabitation that would facilitate the raising of their child. This situation was so irreconcilable that they felt the need to terminate the life. For me, though, making a decision like that would coincide with the termination of the relationship. They are basically saying that they would rather sacrifice a life than their jobs or education or location in service of their marriage. After the abortion it stopped being about moving, there is something something wrong there.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

bennyLPJ said:


> People learn from their mistakes. Assuming you're correct, and this is what the OP and his wife did at the beginning, then the solution they chose was obviously the wrong one. This happens all the time. In marriage/work/parenting/life... we try to find the best solution to what we are faced with. Then we implement. If it doesn't work, we pick a new one. This is a common life pattern. If we refuse to find a new solution, we never achieve our objective, in this case, the OP wants a happy, fully present marriage. If his previous solution didn't work. No big deal. Learn from it, and chose a better one. Just like we all do.


Except it has to be a two-way street. So far, they discuss and decide, then she demands something else. Repeat. This is in the OP's own words. I see nothing that indicates this is trying to find a joint solution, but lots that indicate that this is her workignt to get her own optimal solution.



> I certainly respect the idea Tall Average Guy proposed above, but I wouldn't do it. I think decisions like this should be made together. Create your vision together, by brainstorming solutions and finding what works best for both of you. Creating your vision alone and giving her the option to "buy in" or not limits your options, and most importantly shuts down the conversation. Don't make her need to "talk you out of your vision" in order to find something that works for both of you. Enter the conversation with this vision: We will create what we want together.


I think you may have confused another poster with me. Nonetheless, this only works if both sides are playing that same game. Here, I don't see that. I see his wife working to reach her goal, with little or no consideration about his needs.



> And to address the point regarding "telling him what he needs." If your spouse begins unilaterally making demands and telling you what to think/do/believe/etc... then THAT behavior is what you stand up to and be bold with. Don't say "It's my vision or no vision." Something like "Look, that's not how this is going to work. This decision effects both you and me, as well as our entire future. We are going to make it together, and agree on it together. You won't be deciding my actions for me." Address the behavior/attitude specifically, not the problem you're trying to solve. Don't blur attitudes/behaviors together with the real topic.
> 
> Hope that makes sense. Either way, thanks for the interaction Tall Average Guy. I appreciate your thoughts.
> 
> ...


I certainly have not advised him that he should say my vision or no vision. But I think it is clear that is the wife's goal. He is trying to negotiate with someone who is not doing it in good faith.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> 5. We were responsible, but, she got pregnant. I told her I would 100% support her choice, but if she keeps the baby, she must move up ASAP. She chose to terminate.


I'm "pro-choice", but i'm not "terminate-just-because-it-doesn't-fit-my-schedule"! 

She terminated your first possible child just because she didn't want to move to where you are. How isn't this a clear indicator of what she is worth as a wife?

Quite honestly you totally jumped the gun marrying this woman. 



> I really want to try to make my marriage work


That's fine! But it really takes two mate...


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Brinseed said:


> No, I was unconditionally supportive of whatever decision she made. I went to the clinic with her and everything.
> 
> Divorce seems pretty harsh don't you think? I'm still in love with this woman and it's barely been a year!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The Cro-Magnon said:


>


:rofl: :rofl:
Perfect


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Yeah..She really isn't that into being married. 

Personally I'd wish her the best of luck in her future endeavors. But if you want to keep things going with her be prepared to follow her every whim for the next 20 years.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Both of you put your respective interests ahead of the other. If you were both head over heels, I don't think this would be the case. You're future is in Vancouver and her's is in San Jose. There are other men in San Jose and other women in Vancouver.


I'd be willing to bet she's already met one of the "other men in San Jose".

I'd double down that the OP had nothing to do with the pregnancy, too.


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm so grateful to all of you for your input and time. 

I have taken a much firmer stance, as so many of you suggested. 

We are in the midst of talking through everything I guess. I think I am making progress - I need a few more days though. I will report back!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I want to get a point across.

You two married. You got pregnant. Her decision. She aborted the baby. She wants San Jose? You want Vancouver?

You are both very selfish?

Why the hell did you two get married?

That is the conversation you both need to have!!!

And my man, I understand her point that your broke up with her. The you got back together.

If you love her that much, if you really, really do? You would have had the balls to follow her to San Jose.

And she would love you so much that she would support your move by supporting you until you got your feet firmly planted with a job in San Jose.

Life and Marriage are give and takes.

You both better start *giving* or the only trip you both will be *taking* is to a lawyers office.........


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Brinseed said:


> I'm so grateful to all of you for your input and time.
> 
> I have taken a much firmer stance, as so many of you suggested.
> 
> We are in the midst of talking through everything I guess. I think I am making progress - I need a few more days though. I will report back!


Make it a balanced decision, personally I feel option C is very harsh and option A is the much more balanced approach. Be firm but be fair yeah? Or at least try to, good luck


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Based on what you wrote she seems like a horrible wife.

She is hell bent on doing exactly only what she wants.

And it sure does not seem like she cares what you think about her decisions.

Google Independent Behavior in marriage... You will find that this is one of the key things that harms marriages.

You got married for the wrong reason, you got married too young, and you chose the wrong person. This cannot be overcome.


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank you so much to everyone for your thoughts and input. 

I think that it is worth trying Option A. I also take some responsibility for my situation - particularly for not being more clear with my own needs (i.e. that she should live with me, not expressing a preference when she was pregnant, etc.). We all make mistakes - I'm resolving to learn from mine.

I'm telling her that I need a decision from her on whether or not she agrees to a deal as follows. And making it clear that this is a line I am drawing.

1. Move to Vancouver ASAP, maximum 3 or 4 months from now, even if she does not find a job here first

2. In general, as a framework for our marriage forever going forward, agree that we both will only relocate to a new city if and when it works for both of us

3. We will *try* living in San Jose one day, hopefully but not necessarily in about 2-3 years from now (after my current job has run its course). The idea being that she has 50% input on where we live, and so if we can make it work for both of us we'll try it, but if after a few years I am not happy, we leave and look for a new place to live

4. I'll also offer a bunch of explicit things that I can do for her and give her, in recognition of her moving here. Things that I'd do anyway, but by making it explicit she could feel more comfortable and safe. (I'll also ask for similar things for when we eventually live where she wants.)

I'll post an update in a week or so with how it goes - thanks again to everyone for your help!


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I sincerely wish you luck, Brinseed, because I think you're going to need it!

1.) You ALREADY DID THIS...and she still lives in San Jose!

2.) You ALREADY DID THIS when YOU moved to Vancouver. Uh, she chose San Jose! And the wording is nebulous enough to be unenforceable "*THIS* just doesn't *WORK FOR* me..."

3.) You ALREADY OFFERED THIS...and she still lives in San Jose!

4.) Maybe this is new!

Honestly, this LOOKS *JUST EXACTLY LIKE *your original offer which she roundly rejected. Perhaps I'm missing some pertinent change?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I sincerely wish you luck, Brinseed, because I think you're going to need it!
> 
> 1.) You ALREADY DID THIS...and she still lives in San Jose!
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


She's not acting like a loving spouse and I predict within 6 to 12 months you'll be at another impasse.

When this time comes, please feel free to come back here. There won't be any "I told you so" from folks here. Best of luck and I hope i am wrong and this works out for you


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

I would bet my last dollar that the reason your wife is so set on 
staying in San Jose has absolutely nothing to do with anything except for her BF.
Oh yeah, she's involved with someone else, that's why she had the abortion, a child would have severely put a cramp in her lifestyle.
This woman has you snowed & will continue to do so until you figure that out for yourself. 
If you were to surprise her & fly down to San Jose, I'm quite certain you would see for yourself what she's doing down there.
She will never move, she has everything she wants, why rock the boat?


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

Toffer said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> 
> She's not acting like a loving spouse and I predict within 6 to 12 months you'll be at another impasse.
> ...


So yeah... I have an update. :scratchhead: As many of you suspected there was something going on with another man. I don't know for sure if she slept with him or not but I'm sure that if she didn't, it came very close. I packed her things and shipped them to her and told her it was over. That was 9 months ago.

Over the last 9 months she has been sending me letters, gifts, notes, texts etc. telling me how sorry she is, how she realizes now that she had a bad mindset that drove her to be unappreciative and harsh, how she has been in therapy working on herself and on understanding where this behavior was coming from, and also working on boundary issues with men, and how she has been meditating and doing yoga and all of these personal transformational things. I've had a few conversations with our common friends and they say that it seems totally genuine. I saw her a few times last week - first time since 9 months ago - and it also seemed genuine. That being said, she has promised things before, and seemed genuine before, too, and now I am finally starting to feel better after many months of depression and so I'm very hesitant to risk the gains I've made. On the other hand (why??? not sure!) I still love her and it would be awful if I turned her down, if in actual fact she really did change and I missed out on the chance to finally have the life I wanted with her.

To be clear, she is saying to me now that if I give her a chance, she'll move here immediately, no conditions, quit her job immediately, stop travelling, give me total access to all her phones / accounts etc., and also "whatever else I want/need" to regain her trust slowly. 

It's all a bit surreal. I started a new thread on this but also wanted to come back here and update you all.

I can't thank everyone here enough for your support and thoughts. It makes such a difference!


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## Brinseed (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh and another thing. She says the termination affected her deeply and she regrets it so much. (I do too actually.)


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Brinseed said:


> Oh and another thing. She says the termination affected her deeply and she regrets it so much. (I do too actually.)


And that my man is probably the truth from her.

What a shame!


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