# If this were your BF of 9 months, would you dump him?



## Roses919191

After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.

He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?

He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other

He is not that into the relationship. He enjoys the sex but does not want to get more involved. The religious nonsense is because it is easier to say that than explain the relationship is not that serious to him. The reason he gets angry is that he feels pushed into feeling emotions and commitment that he does not feel.

Apart from the religious nonsense, he is being pretty honest with you. His behaviour is not actually that bad IMO (I expect to be called out on that) as long as you understand the situation. If you need a commited relationship , then move on. If you are happy with a long term casual relationship, then stay. You do not need to dump him over it, just decide what you want and act accordingly.


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## Omego

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back.
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're the pursuer in this relationship, and that's not going to get you what you want.

You don't need to be dramatic and dump him, but step back from the relationship. Stop texting, stop asking for signs of affection, stop showing neediness. Don't let your life revolve around him. And please stop crying around him. Limit or end sleepovers.


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## frusdil

I can see why you're feeling the way you do, I really can.

The problem is, you can't fault him for not loving you. It doesn't make him a bad guy, it just is what it is. You do NOT want him to tell you he loves you, if he doesn't mean it...

Men know pretty early on whether they see you as "serious" partner material. My husband was talking future when we were together about 5-6 months...nothing too detailed but it was out there. 

If you want a serious relationship that continues to grow and move forward, this isn't it.

And crying and being needy around him will only push him away. Guaranteed.


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## I'll make tea

Roses919191 said:


> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1.


That would raise red flags for me. He is to religious to live with you but not religious enough to push sex from first date.

Must be a funny religion that encourages that. What religion is he?


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## AliceA

We all have different boundaries, and I think you haven't really developed yours yet. You need to work on that.

1) Don't cry at him, he won't respect you for it, trust me. For many people tears are okay if you suffering severe pain or when someone close to you has died, otherwise, they should be a private thing between you and your pillow. I think his reaction says exactly how he views your tears and you'd be wise to remember it if you want to continue a relationship with him.

2) It's okay to dump people for not wanting to get married within a time frame you would be happy with. That's completely your prerogative. I was fully prepared to dump a future partner who didn't pop the question within a year. I had a timeline and I wasn't going to waste my life on a 'maybe' person. Lucky I met my now DH at that point, as he was full steam ahead from the get go. I'm not saying you have to be like me, but if you want someone who'll commit to you, don't waste your life waiting on the one that won't. Who knows how many potentially awesome partners are slipping away while you waste your time with a guy who just sees you as a piece of @rse.


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## Roses919191

I just don't get why he strings me Along. I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along. I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's with you because you allow him to be. 

Everyone's timing is different. If you can't respect HIS how can you expect him to respect yours? Back off. Let the relationship develop organically. If he's the one for you, he will let you know and you will have no doubts by his actions and how he treats you.


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## Roses919191

It's not about timing of when he's ready to propose or say I love you. On a daily basis, he often can't even be bothered to text me once a day or make any plans to hang out all week long. And doesn't use any words really to tell me how he feels, such as "I'm so happy" or "I really care a lot for you."


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

You are still making threads about the same thing.

It's clear you are not happy. So why are you with him?

We aren't dating him so the question you are posing is not really going to narrow anything down for you. Only YOU can decide. And it seems you are stuck in this push-pull.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


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## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along.


Because you allow it/tolerate it.


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> It's not about timing of when he's ready to propose or say I love you. On a daily basis, he often can't even be bothered to text me once a day or make any plans to hang out all week long. And doesn't use any words really to tell me how he feels, such as "I'm so happy" or "I really care a lot for you."
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok so make a decision then. If he's not giving you what you want, end the relationship and move on. He isn't you. He doesn't call or text or tell you what you want to hear (which you have no control of anyway, he's an individual and does what he wants).


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## Jellybeans

A Bit Much said:


> Ok so make a decision then. If he's not giving you what you want, end the relationship and move on.


:iagree:

"It could all be so simple..." - Lauryn Hill


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## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.


If he doesn't love you, he doesn't love you. Simple as that.

You should be thankful he is honest about that. You don't want to be with someone that doesn't feel like that about you, do you?



Roses919191 said:


> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?


I think it's a bit too early to talk about future/living together at 9 months. You are pushing too hard IMO.

Wait 2 years (until honeymoon phase is over) and see what you guys are left with. If there is still sparks, that's a good time to start talking about future.

Before that = you are doing it wrong

Sex from date 1 = HUGE red flag. I can't stress this enough and will repeat myself over and over on this subject. Intimacy too early in the relationship is the WORST thing for both parties involved. Wait few months, get to know the person, build proper foundation LONG LONG before intimacy.

HUGE mistake on your part if intimacy was in the picture within weeks of dating/starting relationship.

Heck, personally I wouldn't sleep with a person I don't love or doesn't love me back. 

Sex without feelings = worthless to me. I have 0 desire for it. Let me take that back, I have desire for it when I think with my penis....but I shut down those feeling QUICK (learned to over the years anyways).



Roses919191 said:


> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actions speak louder than words.

If a man can't take a min of his time to call you, hang out with your or "text" you (IMO texting is rather childish...but whatever)......that means he has very little desire to be your partner/significant other.

He likes the sex (chances are).

What I would focus on is yourself here. Learn the lessons!!! 

You are definitely being too pushy too soon. And sounds like intimacy too soon is an issue as well.

Work on those things......

As for him, I would dump him QUICK. You are clearly not getting what you are looking for from him and his feelings are just not on par with yours.

NEXT


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## PBear

He's not into you as much as you're into him. Not sure why you're trying to make it more complicated than that. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

Because if he didn't want a future w me, I don't know why he continued dating me when I emphasized that I loved him & didn't want only casual dating
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> Because if he didn't want a future w me, I don't know why he continued dating me when I emphasized that I loved him & didn't want only casual dating
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cause he's getting laid occasionally, without putting any real effort into a relationship?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> Because if he didn't want a future w me, I don't know why he continued dating me when I emphasized that I loved him & didn't want only casual dating
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You aren't getting it. He's casually dating you because he can. The longer you allow it, the longer this will go on. If you want something else, then end it and go get it. 

He enjoys your company for the most part, and he's getting sex regularly. You keep opening the door, so he'll keep coming in. It's not that difficult to understand.


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## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> Because if he didn't want a future w me, I don't know why he continued dating me when I emphasized that I loved him & didn't want only casual dating
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You gave it up easy.

That's why.


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## Roses919191

But morally, you'd let someone stay in a relationship with you who keeps saying she wants things you know you won't give her?

I've trusted that he wants more, but lately I question his character. His excuse for not living together is suddenly religion (which he never mentioned before), yet he pushed me for sex first date?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> But morally, you'd let someone stay in a relationship with you who keeps saying she wants things you know you won't give her?
> 
> I've trusted that he wants more, but lately I question his character. His excuse for not living together is suddenly religion (which he never mentioned before), yet he pushed me for sex first date?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You expect people to have morals? 

You have A LOT to learn.....

First off, why in the world would you even continue to date someone that CLEARLY wants sex from you on a first date.

Blame ALL of this on yourself!!!

If it walks and quacks like a duck.......


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> But morally, you'd let someone stay in a relationship with you who keeps saying she wants things you know you won't give her?
> 
> I've trusted that he wants more, but lately I question his character. His excuse for not living together is suddenly religion (which he never mentioned before), yet he pushed me for sex first date?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why is this up to him? Why are you giving him the control over what happens here? If it's not what you want THEN YOU can end it. You don't need his permission to do what you think is best for you.

The religion thing is BS and you know it. He's just giving you a reason that he thinks will make sense to you for his not giving you what you want. He isn't man enough to just be HONEST with you and tell you the truth.


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## PBear

Stop expecting him to act, think, and behave as you would. Stop EXPECTING anything, for that matter. Dating is for learning about your prospective partner. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> But morally, you'd *let *someone stay in a relationship with you *who keeps saying she wants things you know you won't give her?*


:scratchhead:

Morality? Morality isn't the issue here. The issue is you want different things. You slept with him on the first date w/o any committment so I'm a littel confused. 

This is about the fact that YOU CHOOSE to stay with him after he's told you are NOT on the same page. It's not him staying with you about moral 

The more threads you post, the more it becomes apparent: you are working yourself into a tizzy over a man who has made it abundantly clear that he does NOT want what you want. How many more times can he say that?

If you are that concerned about his character and his morality, as you say, then WHY on earth are you WITH him? 

It seems you enjoy a bit of masochism.

He has told you where he stands. For some reason, *you refuse to accept it* as his truth. You will drive yourself mad.

Example:

You: "I want to do X."
Him: "I do'nt want to do X."
You:"But I want you to WANT to do X. Why don't you want to do X? What is wrong wih you? Why can't you/why don't you/why do you?"
Him: "Because I don't want to."

You are trying to FORCE him into doing what you want and let me tell you, that is BAD news, baby.


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## Jellybeans

A Bit Much said:


> Why is this up to him? Why are you giving him the control over what happens here? If it's not what you want THEN YOU can end it. You don't need his permission to do what you think is best for you.


Stop talking all that SENSE, ABitMuch.


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## Roses919191

Hey, when did he tell me he doesn't want what I want? He plays along. I tell him I'd move back home in a few years if were still only casually dating, he just says "I can understand why you'd think that way." He never outright says no. I tell him I only want to date seriously, he doesn't say "I'm not serious" and dump me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

LOL Jellybeans

I just don't see the point in driving one self mad because things aren't working out like you want. Drop it and keep it moving


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> Hey, when did he tell me he doesn't want what I want? He plays along. I tell him I'd move back home in a few years if were still only casually dating, he just says "I can understand why you'd think that way." He never outright says no. I tell him I only want to date seriously, he doesn't say "I'm not serious" and dump me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And? So he doesn't say no... so what? What do YOU say? 

He's not on the same page, that much is evident. So now what?


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## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> Hey, when did he tell me he doesn't want what I want?





Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. *He didn't say I love u back*. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." *Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> *
> 
> *He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me* even though he's pushed sex from date
> 
> *He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text.* I know he can have long tiring work days but still. H*e can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... *And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep.* Sign that he cares?!*


:slap:


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## Jellybeans

A Bit Much said:


> LOL Jellybeans
> 
> I just don't see the point in driving one self mad because things aren't working out like you want. Drop it and keep it moving


That's because you are a down chick who knows what she wants and understand you cannot force anyone to do anything.

Roses: not a single thread you have posted about this situation sounds like you are happy in this relationship. Food for thought.


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## roseblssm6

He definitely doesn't sound very into the relationship. I'd take a step back and reevaluate. It sounds like he doesn't want to commit at this point.


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## A Bit Much

If you aren't seeing returns, stop investing. Would you keep depositing checks into a bank that you couldn't withdraw from? NO. Relationships aren't much different. Giving and taking should be mutually beneficial. When it isn't, the nature of the relationship needs to be evaluated and changes have to be made.


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## Jellybeans

A Bit Much said:


> If you aren't seeing returns, stop investing. Giving and taking should be mutually beneficial.


This is it.


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## DoF

A Bit Much said:


> If you aren't seeing returns, stop investing. Would you keep depositing checks into a bank that you couldn't withdraw from? NO. Relationships aren't much different. Giving and taking should be mutually beneficial. When it isn't, the nature of the relationship needs to be evaluated and changes have to be made.


Agreed

And above is one of MANY reasons why person should think with their brain vs heart.

Brain should tell you "even though I really love this person, they are no good for me, I need to go/leave"

Don't worry OP, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people (most people) have this issue......and they continue ignoring these signs "for love".

THINK WITH YOUR BRAIN!!!

Sure it will hurt and take time to recover, but once you do, you will think back and laugh at yourself OP.

Only other advice I have for you is take your time and make sure you love is gone for this guy COMPLETELY before you start dating/seeing other people. Since you only been with him 8-9 months, recovery time shouldn't be longer than 3-6 months (but it varies with everyone).

In time, you will feel better (but it will hurt).


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## Jellybeans




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## Wolf1974

Roses919191 said:


> *I just don't get why he strings me Along.* I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because you allow him


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## BradWesley

Time to drop this guy like a bad habit and move on.


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


>


LMAO

great picture, I have to save that one!


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## Jellybeans

BradWesley said:


> Time to drop this guy like a bad habit and move on.


But, but, but... I love him!

OP, I sympathize. It's MUCH easier said than done. But as that the old rap song says, you betta check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.


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## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Morality? Morality isn't the issue here. The issue is you want different things. You slept with him on the first date w/o any committment so I'm a littel confused.
> 
> This is about the fact that YOU CHOOSE to stay with him after he's told you are NOT on the same page. It's not him staying with you about moral
> 
> The more threads you post, the more it becomes apparent: you are working yourself into a tizzy over a man who has made it abundantly clear that he does NOT want what you want. How many more times can he say that?
> 
> If you are that concerned about his character and his morality, as you say, then WHY on earth are you WITH him?
> 
> It seems you enjoy a bit of masochism.
> 
> He has told you where he stands. For some reason, *you refuse to accept it* as his truth. You will drive yourself mad.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You: "I want to do X."
> Him: "I do'nt want to do X."
> You:"But I want you to WANT to do X. Why don't you want to do X? What is wrong wih you? Why can't you/why don't you/why do you?"
> Him: "Because I don't want to."
> 
> You are trying to FORCE him into doing what you want and let me tell you, that is BAD news, baby.


Ugh, JB, all too familiar....


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## 3Xnocharm

Jellybeans said:


>


I think I found my new avatar!


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> But, but, but... I love him!
> 
> OP, I sympathize. It's MUCH easier said than done. But as that the old rap song says, you betta check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.


Agreed, doing is the hard part. It's easy for all of us to say these things but in the end, EVERYONE has/will struggle with this sort of thing.


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## PBear

It might be hard now (after 9 months), but it gets much much harder as time goes on. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

PBear said:


> It might be hard now (after 9 months), but it gets much much harder as time goes on.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, it could (for some) but in time.....it WILL get better.


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## Jellybeans

3Xnocharm said:


> Ugh, JB, all too familiar....


Giiiiiiiiiiiiiirl, we have alllllllllllllll been there!



3Xnocharm said:


> I think I found my new avatar!


Funny! I just was asking you about this! Hehehehe.


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## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> It might be hard now (after 9 months), but it gets much much harder as time goes on.


Curious, why 9?


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## Roses919191

Why do people think I should leave him? He is nice to me & spends a lot of his limite free time with me- but it's usually just me initiating hanging out, not him reaching out & planning. Anything- or even reaching out for 1 text a day
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Jellybeans said:


> Curious, why 9?


Because that's how long she's been dating him. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent

Roses919191 said:


> Because if he didn't want a future w me, I don't know why he continued dating me when I emphasized that I loved him & didn't want only casual dating
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Because if he is not meeting your needs or he is not what you want him to be, I don't know why you can't break up with him. Just break up with him and move on. He is not leading you on...you have a choice to break up if it's not what you want. 
I understand that you love him, but if you want a future and he "doesn't" ( I wouldn't want a future with someone needy) then you should break up with him. 
Two weeks ago, I broke up with a guy who was great, but didn't want anything serious. It's life...it happens just move on and please seek counseling


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## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> Because that's how long she's been dating him


Doh!



Roses919191 said:


> Why do people think I should leave him?


Because you are projecting what you wish he was/wants onto him and hoping it will materialize. Because you want him to be something he's not.


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## Roses919191

No i really like the time we do spend together once it happens . I just need to figure out how to make him want to commit to me more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> No i really like the time we do spend together once it happens . I just need to figure out how to make him want to commit to me more


And this is the crux of your problem. 

You cannot MAKE anyone do anything.

Once you accept that, life will be much smoother.


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> And this is the crux of your problem.
> 
> You cannot MAKE anyone do anything.
> 
> Once you accept that, life will be much smoother.


You took the words out of my mouth....

Yet again, she is creating what she wants vs accepting the person right in front of her.

BIG mistake


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Even if you can get lip service from him (i.e. words you want to hear) it's not going to change how he is and how he has been.

It's like going to the grocery store and not finding organic coconut milk, but taking a label you got hold of that says "organic coconut milk" and putting the wording of what you want on the can that might have say, artichokes, in it. Now it might say what you want, but it's still not what you want.


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## Roses919191

Well who's to say he definitely won't ever propose? He never said that! I just want him to text me more than twice a week...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> Well who's to say he definitely won't ever propose? He never said that! I just want him to text me more than twice a week...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And here we go again......keep dreaming.

This guy doesn't even give enough **** about you to text you (5 seconds of his time).

And you are thinking "proposal"

You must be completely out of your mind.

I'm sorry to be so rough, but at this point you need it!

Unreal


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## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> Well who's to say he definitely won't ever propose? He never said that! I just want him to text me more than twice a week...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck. 

I mean we are giving you advice and you keep essentially saying all of us wrooooooooooooong.


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## PBear

DoF said:


> And here we go again......keep dreaming.
> 
> This guy doesn't even give enough **** about you to text you (5 seconds of his time).
> 
> And you are thinking "proposal"
> 
> You must be completely out of your mind.
> 
> I'm sorry to be so rough, but at this point you need it!
> 
> Unreal


I SOL'd (Snorted Out Loud) when I saw the text/proposal question...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

PBear said:


> I SOL'd (Snorted Out Loud) when I saw the text/proposal question...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same here, OP owes me a new keyboard!!!

:scratchhead:


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## DoF

Jellybeans said:


> Good luck.
> 
> I mean we are giving you advice and you keep essentially saying all of us wrooooooooooooong.


Most people HAVE TO learn the hard way. It's the only way.


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## Jellybeans

She will, eventually. 

But ti's gonna be a long road, I predict. Because she is nowhere near rationality. 

This one is going to hurt a lot.


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> Well who's to say he definitely won't ever propose? He never said that! I just want him to text me more than twice a week...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only person you can control is yourself. When you figure that out, you'll be a happier person. 

If you don't want to break things off with him, that is your choice. Just don't expect him to do/say/behave the way YOU think he should. He's his own person. Accept him as he is. Not as you 'think' he should be.


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## Roses919191

Would anyone accept a bf who, after almost a year, never says I love you& can go over 24 hrs without returning 1 simple text even if he has time for gym?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omego

Roses919191 said:


> Well who's to say he definitely won't ever propose? He never said that! I just want him to text me more than twice a week...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I'm sorry, he won't.

A man who is interested in a woman, who is crazy about her and has that deep emotional connection which makes him want to be with her all of the time, will propose.

Trust us. I'm sure everyone is speaking from life experience. I've heard your type of story many times from the guy's perspective. A good friend of mine was happy to date girls exclusively, but never wanted to commit to them. He told me that there was always a moment during the relationship where he felt he needed to get away. He didn't marry any of the girls he wanted to "get away" from.

He married someone who he fell hard for. He told me that he had never felt this kind of attraction for anyone, ever. They've been married quite some time now.

We're all trying to tell you to back off and not expect anything more than what you're getting from him. You are going to get hurt if you continue this way.


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> Would anyone accept a bf who, after almost a year, never says I love you& can go over 24 hrs without returning 1 simple text even if he has time for gym?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who cares what we will accept (and no I wouldn't)

The big question, WILL YOU? Your actions = you ARE accepting that!

I'm pretty sure he takes 2 or 3 dumps during the day too. That takes about 5-10 min each time.......

hehe



Omego said:


> A man who is interested in a woman, who is crazy about her and has that deep emotional connection which makes him want to be with her all of the time, will propose.


Just to add to this.

Not just propose, but they will do everything in their power to spend each and every moment WITH YOU.

This guy won't even TEXT YOU OP. You are not even worth 5 seconds of his life......


----------



## Roses919191

But maybe his idea of "falling hard" & meeting someone he wants to marry, still involves neeing space & going a whole day without talking to me.
It hurts sometimes though. Last week he was busy with work, but knew something really awful happened to me at MY job, yet was still totally MIa for a day even via text for any support
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr The Other

Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along. I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is not stringing you along. He is making it clear that he does not to get serious. 

You are stringing him along as although you say you are only interested in him if he is serious, you stay when he clearly is not. If you need him to get serious or you are out, then ask if he is serious and when he says no, then go.


----------



## DoF

I think we are being trolled here.

WOW


----------



## Omego

DoF said:


> I think we are being trolled here.
> 
> WOW


Dash it all! I'm so gullible. And here I was, thinking that I wished internet forums existed back in the day so that I could have asked for advice.....


----------



## DoF

Omego said:


> I'm so gullible.


Don't worry, same here


----------



## Roses919191

He never says no when I ask if he's serious! He says "of course I am, why else would I have agrees to meet your family & spend my very limited free time from work with you"yet sometimes I don't even get 1 text a day & he doesn't talk about future just says "I prefer to live in moment not plan things out"

When I first brought up living together he said "it's too soon & I've never lived w any gf, I like having my own space" then mobths later he changes it to religious reasons even though he's always pushed sex?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Stop listening to words, and start paying attention to his actions. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> he doesn't talk about future just says "*I prefer to live in moment not plan things out*"
> 
> When I first brought up living together he said "it's too soon & I've never lived w any gf, *I like having my own space*"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are no lines to read between. Take yourself out of what you hear him say. Look at the above. He's telling you and showing you what he's about. You refuse to accept it.


----------



## DoF

And for god sakes STOP TEXTING

Texting Is NOT a form of communication. It's for 'I will be in 10 min" or similar short messages.

Talk to him IN PERSON, FACE TO FACE. This way you feel his atmosphere, see his face, reactions, tone of voice.

I can't stress enough how BAD "none face to face" communication gap is.

ANYTHING important should be discussed IN PERSON.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Roses919191 said:


> Would anyone accept a bf who, after almost a year, never says I love you& can go over 24 hrs without returning 1 simple text even if he has time for gym?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Evidently YOU do.


----------



## Roses919191

His actions are good when we are actually together . TReats me well and met my family
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> His actions are good when we are actually together . TReats me well and met my family
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a match made in heaven then.

Keep pushing the 'let's be together forever' stuff on him and you will push him right out of your life for good. No man likes/wants a desperate and needy woman. 

Leave the man alone and take it one day at a time. If you CAN'T POSSIBLY do that, then you need to cut him loose.


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> His actions are good when we are *actually together* . TReats me well and met my family
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


those 2 words, they don't happen often do they? 

Treats me well and met my family means NOTHING.

How much time has he put into your relationship? Past month, how many hours have you 2 spent together?

Again, if he loves you, he will go up and beyond to see you and be with you AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE (read: he will make time if needed as well).


----------



## struggle

Roses.....I know the people here aren't telling you what you want to hear. They are being honest, outside-perspectives of your situation.

Some of the things you said smacked me in the face because they reminded me of my STBXH behavior when he became emotionally disconnected from me and our marriage

He's turns away and goes to sleep when you're upset because he doesn't care. Period. I don't care how nice he is other times. A man that really loves you will not be able to STAND to see you cry. 

He wants the relationship HIS way, only. He wants sex but no commitment. Why? Why not. Are you going to do something about it? Nope, Roses isn't because she wants MORE, and she will hang around waiting for it....getting happy over the scraps he throws your way once in awhile to keep you hanging around

Things are nice other times because he's getting his way. It's not about you, it's about him.

If he's saying he doesn't want an relationship....he's probably not lying to you. He doesn't want one. You're trying to find a way to manipulate him to get him to change his mind. We cannot encourage that. And if you do, you will be right back here in a year or three, divorce impending and a big heartbreaking mess, wondering why the heck you didn't dump him in the first place with all the red flags he gave

He will break your heart, it will always always always be about him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> His actions are good when we are actually together . TReats me well and met my family
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to look at his actions as a whole, not just the apparently limited time you're together. 

Everyone is telling you the same thing. In fact, everyone in every one of your threads has told you the same thing. You're not a match. It doesn't make either of you bad people or anything. You're just not a match. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

He's never said he doesn't want to be serious. He sai he thought it was obvious he's serious because he met my family and spends free time with me. Yet he often can't text once a day and I usually. Initiate the hanging out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> He's never said he doesn't want to be serious. He sai he thought it was obvious he's serious because he *met my family* and spends free time with me. Yet he often can't text once a day and I usually. Initiate the hanging out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Meeting your family is a serious step?

Seriously, tell us how so. What does that actually accomplish in the big scheme of things?

Again, how much time has he invested into your relationship past month. In hours or days.

THAT answer will tell you how serious he is about you and your imaginary relationship that you don't even have.


----------



## Kria

He is showing and telling you who he is. You are not hearing or believing him. Stop imagining who you want him to be and accept the reality of who he is. It's not just what he says or does but also what he doesn't say or do that counts.


----------



## Roses919191

He never said he doesn't want anything serious. Told me he always thought we were. He just seems emotionally lazy. Not even reaching out to contact me via 1 text message a day. Not planning to see me- I do most of initiating. Not wantin to discuss future, saying he likes to take things as they come with no set plan or timetable. And not saying I love you OR anything else to reflect how he cares. Man of very little words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kria

Sometimes you have to meet people where they are in their life and sometimes you have to leave them there too.


----------



## Jellybeans

Roses919191 said:


> He never said he doesn't want anything serious. Told me he always thought we were. He just seems emotionally lazy. Not even reaching out to contact me via 1 text message a day. Not planning to see me- I do most of initiating. Not wantin to discuss future, saying he likes to take things as they come with no set plan or timetable. And not saying I love you OR anything else to reflect how he cares. Man of very little words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And you still stay with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

DoF said:


> Again, how much time has he invested into your relationship past month. In hours or days.
> 
> THAT answer will tell you how serious he is about you and your imaginary relationship that you don't even have.


Still waiting....:sleeping:


----------



## Roses919191

Oh sorry! He spent his week off with me, but only because 1) it was his own best friend's wedding out of town, then 2) I took it upon myself to book an overnight trip since he blew off planning even after I told him long ago it was something I really wanted. But he was very attentive & nice to me while on trip.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> Oh sorry! He spent his week off with me, but only because 1) it was his own best friend's wedding out of town, then 2) I took it upon myself to book an overnight trip since he blew off planning even after I told him long ago it was something I really wanted. But he was very attentive & nice to me while on trip.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're not painting a convincing picture of a guy who's into you... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Take it or leave it. If you don't require him to engage emotionally, more than he is, it will never change.

It seems your the kind of woman (normal ) that wants consideration for her feelings. This Guy doesn't have that. Falling asleep while your crying seems too damn cold.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

But how can I get him to engage emotionally? I can't think of any more I can do for him. Even yesterday he admitted he was "very happy" with me, no complaints, "until now"- ie the time I brought up that I thought we were "different people" because he doesn't even like to text me once daily, whereas I tend to prefer more contact in a relationship. He just blew up at me saying his standard, "oh ok, I see, everything's my fault" then he completely stops responding to anything and walks around his house doing tasks acting like I'm not present (mind you I'm not yelling or swearing at him or anything!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

How old are you?


----------



## MattMatt

Religious reason = He worships and loves only himself.


----------



## Roses919191

27
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RClawson

Sorry I did not have the patience to read anything other that your post. In short you need to find a Man to have a relationship or decide that you are ok living with a boy for the rest of your life.


----------



## ConanHub

RClawson said:


> Sorry I did not have the patience to read anything other that your post. In short you need to find a Man to have a relationship or decide that you are ok living with a boy for the rest of your life.


This is right on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> But how can I get him to engage emotionally? I can't think of any more I can do for him. Even yesterday he admitted he was "very happy" with me, no complaints, "until now"- ie the time I brought up that I thought we were "different people" because he doesn't even like to text me once daily, whereas I tend to prefer more contact in a relationship. He just blew up at me saying his standard, "oh ok, I see, everything's my fault" then he completely stops responding to anything and walks around his house doing tasks acting like I'm not present (mind you I'm not yelling or swearing at him or anything!)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's happy with you when you let him be who he wants to be, and act as he naturally acts. He's grumpy with you when you try to force him to fit in your relationship mold. It's not rocket science. You're not worth the effort for him to change for you. He's not that into you. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you'll be happy. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richie33

OP your posts remind me of the movie Groundhog Day.


----------



## ntamph

Roses919191 said:


> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What a load of ****.


----------



## alphaomega

Roses,

No matter how many ways you phrase your exact same question, your going to get the exact same answer from the members here.

No disrespect, but I would stop fishing for the answer you want to hear, and start processing the answer you are getting. Everyone seems to be telling you the exact same thing.

I'll say it too. Your the only one responsible for your own happiness and future. Don't look for it in someone else. If your not happy, then the ball is in your court.


----------



## Thebes

If he isn't going to commit to you now he never will. If you want a committed relationship find someone else. I think he's there for the sex. If so someone else will come along one of these days and he will either dump you or cheat.


----------



## Roses919191

Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cause you're annoying him?

C


----------



## Roses919191

NO. This was very early on in our convo last night. If he's annoyed by me bringing up 1 thing for 10 minutes, that's a bit much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

So ask him why he changed his mind.

C


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Roses919191 said:


> Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he is a d!ck. Do you not realize that he is being a sarcastic ass by saying this?


----------



## Openminded

DoF said:


> I think we are being trolled here.
> 
> WOW


This story sounds very familiar. Several times in the last year. Either there are many stories just like this one or else . . .


----------



## pidge70

Roses919191 said:


> Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe that's his passive aggressive way of letting you know he could care less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

Openminded said:


> DoF said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are being trolled here.
> 
> WOW
> 
> 
> 
> This story sounds very familiar. Several times in the last year. Either there are many stories just like this one or else . . .
Click to expand...

Same person. She keeps saying the same thing over and over again...and insists everything is great... except she can't make him fall in love with her. 

As for Pidge's question about age, my guess would be 12-16... sorry, but I very much doubt that Roses is 27.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Openminded

Maricha75 said:


> Same person. She keeps saying the same thing over and over again...and insists everything is great... except she can't make him fall in love with her.
> 
> As for Pidge's question about age, my guess would be 12-16... sorry, but I very much doubt that Roses is 27.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Yep. Same familiar story over and over. Same style of writing exactly. Same stated age.


----------



## DoF

Simple test for OP. Cut him of sexually COMPLETELY next 3 times you are together (assuming you even get to #2) and do not contact him. See what effort he makes to "be with you".





Roses919191 said:


> Oh sorry! He spent his week off with me, but only because 1) it was his own best friend's wedding out of town, then 2) I took it upon myself to book an overnight trip since he blew off planning even after I told him long ago it was something I really wanted. But he was very attentive & nice to me while on trip.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YOu still didn't answer the question.

Over a period of 1 month. How much time has he spent with you.

Take "friends wedding" out of it.......

You and him, doing things together minus sex.

I will take 8 hours out for work and 8 for sleep. That leaves about 248 hours in a month of time.

Give us a number please (and I'm ignoring weekends!!!)


----------



## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he knows your not going anywhere. He can say anything he wants
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

DoF said:


> Simple test for OP. Cut him of sexually COMPLETELY next 3 times you are together (assuming you even get to #2) and do not contact him. See what effort he makes to "be with you".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu still didn't answer the question.
> 
> Over a period of 1 month. How much time has he spent with you.
> 
> Take "friends wedding" out of it.......
> 
> You and him, doing things together minus sex.
> 
> I will take 8 hours out for work and 8 for sleep. That leaves about 248 hours in a month of time.
> 
> Give us a number please (and I'm ignoring weekends!!!)


Ignoring weekends? 50 hours, almost always just me coming over to his place

I've been trying to figure out why he'd stay with me, after I said I only wanted to date someone seriously, if he didn't truly care, BUT: fact is, I have a very high profile job with super high earning potential after I finish my training years, I have been told by many that I am "extremely attractive" (have been approached for modeling etc), so I don't know


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> Ignoring weekends? 50 hours, almost always just me coming over to his place


Great, so do the math.

1/5th of his "own personal" time he devotes to you. He is at 20% TOPS and this is YOUR effort too (not his).

So technically, it's NOTHING.



Roses919191 said:


> I've been trying to figure out why he'd stay with me, after I said I only wanted to date someone seriously, if he didn't truly care,


We are trying to tell you ENTIRE thread.

Your body/sex.



Roses919191 said:


> BUT: fact is, I have a very high profile job with super high earning potential after I finish my training years, I have been told by many that I am "extremely attractive" (have been approached for modeling etc), so I don't know


Don't be so arrogant.....that's not a fact and has nothing to do with your thing (this is NOT a relationship sorry, Call if "FWB" if you will).

Your "boy" (he is NOT your boyfriend) is using you for sex.

Notice I said boy, this is not a man. Man (even one that wants to play around) will be honest and upfront with you. He won't lie to you to spread your legs. This is childish and immature.

You are completely dazed and confused. You are allowing your heart to control you. Start using your brain first?

Are you a teen or in your early 20s? I struggle to find maturity from you in this entire thread....


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along. I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?


He is with you because you make it easy for him to be with you.. well except for the guilt trip you put on him.

You have given him mixed messages. You say that you want a future, are not dating casually.. but you have no future with him and you date him casually. If you were serious about this you would not even answer him when he calls and you would not go out with him any more.

You are making the mistake that a lot of women do. You are pursing a guy who has been very clear in his words and actions that he is not in love with you and that he does not want a serious relationship with you. Why don't you believe him when he tells you exactly what he's up to?

He sees you because it's easy.. and he gets sex. It's like me asking why does my dog keep bugging me every morning for a treat.. .it's because I give her a treat every time she bugs me for one. Duh

He will leave you as soon as he finds a woman who he feels is long-term, wife, material. In the meantime you will do.

He's not a bad guy. He's just taking what you give him freely. Most people will.


----------



## DoF

EleGirl said:


> He sees you because it's easy.. and he gets sex. It's like me asking why does my dog keep bugging me every morning for a treat.. .it's because I give her a treat every time she bugs me for one. Duh


You really found a great way to communicate with the OP here!

Heck, I'm rather optimistic about the OP now!





EleGirl said:


> He's not a bad guy. He's just taking what you give him freely. Most people will.


Which is what made me write the immature statement.

OP has very little to no self worth. Your parents clearly failed to teach you that you need to value yourself more than some cheap/free thrill for some dog in this world.

LMAO

I think I've been inspired by you Elegirl......


----------



## Roses919191

EleGirl said:


> You have given him mixed messages. You say that you want a future, are not dating casually.. but you have no future with him and you date him casually. If you were serious about this you would not even answer him when he calls and you would not go out with him any more.
> 
> You are making the mistake that a lot of women do. You are pursing a guy who has been very clear in his words and actions that he is not in love with you and that he does not want a serious relationship with you. Why don't you believe him when he tells you exactly what he's up to?
> 
> He sees you because it's easy.. and he gets sex. It's like me asking why does my dog keep bugging me every morning for a treat.. .it's because I give her a treat every time she bugs me for one. Duh
> 
> will.


Huh?
His new thing is that we need to take a step back & reassess relationship because we have different "religious views" (I want to live together, he says it's immoral - funny because he tried to sleep with me on date 1, which I resisted!!). And now he's saying maybe we should eliminate sex from our relationship so he's not being hypocritical. So maybe he's not just "after sex."

And any time I've ever asked him if this is serious, he says "of course, why would I spend my limited free time with you & meet your family unless I were serious about you"


----------



## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> Huh?
> His new thing is that we need to take a step back & reassess relationship because we have different "religious views" (I want to live together, he says it's immoral - funny because he tried to sleep with me on date 1, which I resisted!!). And now he's saying maybe we should eliminate sex from our relationship so he's not being hypocritical. So maybe he's not just "after sex."
> 
> And any time I've ever asked him if this is serious, he says "of course, why would I spend my limited free time with you & meet your family unless I were serious about you"


So is there advice you're looking for? Be specific. Otherwise everyone's answer to your question, "would you dump him", is a resounding YES
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband had commitment issues when we were dating. For a while he cared less than I did. That changed once he realized that I would move on and find someone who treated me the way I deserved. 

I wouldn't stay with this guy if I were you. Sometimes people don't know what they have until it is gone. Your boyfriend is comfortable, so if you want more of a commitment and emotional intimacy, you will have to be willing to make him uncomfortable. 

Dump him without explanation. If he comes begging back, tell him that you are dating someone else. He has to see what he is missing if anything is going to change.


----------



## Roses919191

What did you do to make your husbands view change?


----------



## CharlotteMcdougall

Roses919191 said:


> What did you do to make your husbands view change?


I didn't make his view change. I just changed my own behavior and it worked in my favor. 

I simply stopped showing so much love and affection. We were in a make up and break up cycle, until I told him to eff off permanently unless he was sure he wanted a future with me.

I told my then boyfriend that while I loved him, I loved myself more and I wasn't going to ride the merry-go-round anymore. I let him know how disappointed I was that an older gentleman could be so immature. 

Finally, when my then boyfriend came crawling back for the umpteenth time, I let him know that I was dating others and had no time for him. 

Complete 180 and willingness to move on changed the dynamic of our relationship. Now that we are married, he is the one craving more emotional intimacy while I am reticent.


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Huh?
> 
> His new thing is that we need to take a step back & reassess relationship because we have different "religious views"


Ok.. this is the way guy’s talk. It means that he wants to get away from you. The “religious views” talk is because he not too bright and thinks that he has found a way to be philosophical/spiritual. He feels this excuses his wanting to “step back & reassess the relationship” (or get away from you).

Why don’t you believe what he is saying? He told you very clearly that he wants to step away from the relationship. Believe him and stop seeing him.

Most guys will date a woman for a few months. Then they give either stop calling or give the ‘step away and reassess the relationship” talk. When this happens the worst thing you can do is what you are doing.. Pursuing him. Tell him that it’s ok. He can go do whatever. Then go live your life. If after he’s away from you for a couple of months he decides that he wants to be with you, then he will come back on his own. And then, only then, will he be yours. As long as you pursue him, you will lose him.


Roses919191 said:


> (I want to live together, he says it's immoral - funny because he tried to sleep with me on date 1, which I resisted!!). And now he's saying maybe we should eliminate sex from our relationship so he's not being hypocritical. So maybe he's not just "after sex."


Why are you in such a rush to live with a guy, especially one who does not even love you? 

I already addressed his ‘religious’ argument. It’s just something that he thinks makes sense. What he is really saying is that it goes against his way of thinking to move in and live with someone who he does not love and does not want to commit to. He’s being very clear. 



Roses919191 said:


> And any time I've ever asked him if this is serious, he says "of course, why would I spend my limited free time with you & meet your family unless I were serious about you"


What is he going to say? “NO I’m not serious. I’m just screwing around with you until I find someone I really love.” Of course he’s not going to say that.. it would make him feel badly about himself. 

Everyone on this thread has told you that you should end the relationship. Even the men are saying it. Listen to the men. They know how men think.


----------



## EleGirl

Here is video for you... Listen to Tonya...

Get Mr. RIght to Fall in LOVE w/ you - 7 Easy Steps + 1 Fatal Flaw MOST women Make TonyaTko How To - YouTube


----------



## Roses919191

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I didn't make his view change. I just changed my own behavior and it worked in my favor.
> 
> I simply stopped showing so much love and affection. We were in a make up and break up cycle, until I told him to eff off permanently unless he was sure he wanted a future with me.
> 
> I told my then boyfriend that while I loved him, I loved myself more and I wasn't going to ride the merry-go-round anymore. I let him know how disappointed I was that an older gentleman could be so immature.
> 
> Finally, when my then boyfriend came crawling back for the umpteenth time, I let him know that I was dating others and had no time for him.
> 
> Complete 180 and willingness to move on changed the dynamic of our relationship. Now that we are married, he is the one craving more emotional intimacy while I am reticent.


So interesting!!,! I always thought the opposite, that the way to keep a man was to shower him with affection & make him feel secure. You're saying that instead, I should tell him to go ahead & take as much time as he needs to "reassess" our relationship, that I'll back off and give him space? Then let him wonder if I'm dating others in the meantime?!z


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> So interesting!!,! I always thought the opposite, that the way to keep a man was to shower him with affection & make him feel secure. You're saying that instead, I should tell him to go ahead & take as much time as he needs to "reassess" our relationship, that I'll back off and give him space? Then let him wonder if I'm dating others in the meantime?!z


yep


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## Roses919191

That makes me feel like I'm pretending to be someone I'm not- cause I really really care about him & don't want to just date others at drop of a hat.

Am I supposed to say anything else or just "take as much time as you need, but I can't and won't wait around forever"?


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> That makes me feel like I'm pretending to be someone I'm not- cause I really really care about him & don't want to just date others at drop of a hat.
> 
> Am I supposed to say anything else or just "take as much time as you need, but I can't and won't wait around forever"?


You are supposed to say "OK" when he says that he wants to take time out.

You don't tell him to take the time as much time as he needs. You are not his mommy. It's not your place to tell him what he can and cannot do. Just say OK and then say good bye to him.

Then you are supposed to go on with your life. If you want to date others, then date them. If you don't want to date others, don't. But get on with your life. Do not call him. Do not contact him in any way.

Did you view the video I posted? At about 30:00 she starts to talk about exactly this topic. Actually go to 27 minutes in. Because she's talking first about relationships women have with each other and how they are different than our relationships with men.

You are interacting with him as though he's a woman.

All this love and wanting to do things for him... save it for AFTER he's committed to you.. not when he's just wanting someone to have sex with.


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## CharlotteMcdougall

Roses919191 said:


> So interesting!!,! I always thought the opposite, that the way to keep a man was to shower him with affection & make him feel secure. You're saying that instead, I should tell him to go ahead & take as much time as he needs to "reassess" our relationship, that I'll back off and give him space? Then let him wonder if I'm dating others in the meantime?!z


You only shower a man with affection *when he does the same for you.* For example, I learned that unless a man treated me well, there was no need for me to do anything domestic for him. They need to earn those kind of perks. 

I didn't say that you should give your boyfriend all the time he needs. I said *dump his ass*, preferably in a very mean way so he knows you're no longer his plaything. Take some time to learn from what you went through with him. When you know your worth and what your deal breakers are, you will be able to choose better next time. This is about *you *and your self esteem. The guy you are seeing is just a mirror of how you feel about yourself. 

Love yourself more than you love any man and you will attract the good ones. Be clear about what you want and be willing to walk away if a man isn't on the same page. Men who bring up sex right away only want one thing. Do not visit a man's home unless you are ready to have sex with him. I learned that the hard way when I was raped. Obviously, not every man is going to rape a woman who comes to his home. It is just that being in a private space with a man sends a signal to him. 

My husband never pressured me for sex. I told him point blank that I wouldn't go to his apartment until I was ready to have sex with him. My husband didn't like that idea so he gently coaxed the reason out of me. I didn't want to tell him that I was raped, so I just said that I had a bad experience. He looked deep into my eyes and said: "_I'm so sorry that other men have mistreated you. No other woman I dated ever got so indignant when I asked them to come over, which tells me that there is something that you are afraid of. I promise that I only want to relax with you at home. I hope that while we are enjoying cuddles, you will feel safe enough to tell me what happened to you. Please trust me_." 

I still refused until I got very drunk one night at dinner. My husband laughed at my drunken slurring and took me home to rest. He could have taken advantage of me when I was vulnerable. Instead, my husband carried me to his bed and let me sleep off the liquor. That is when I knew that I could trust him. 

It is moments like this that made me take him back time and time again. My husband had some self esteem issues which prevented him from accepting my love. Now he is a loving, caring and romantic hubby.


----------



## DoF

^^ great advice



Roses919191 said:


> Huh?
> His new thing is that we need to take a step back & reassess relationship because we have different "religious views" (I want to live together, he says it's immoral - funny because he tried to sleep with me on date 1, which I resisted!!). And now he's saying maybe we should eliminate sex from our relationship so he's not being hypocritical. So maybe he's not just "after sex."


Take a step back from what? He hasn't made ANY steps to be with you, this is NOT a relationship.



Roses919191 said:


> And any time I've ever asked him if this is serious, he says "of course, why would I spend my limited free time with you & meet your family unless I were serious about you"


Words are cheap. Based on his actions he hasn't taken any steps to be with you (you said YOU had to).

He is NOT serious with his actions, just words.

Man is defined by their WORD. And this guy is clearly lying to you cause his words and actions are completely different.

BUT it that's what you want, go nuts.

I would be really curious to find out what he does with 80% of his time away from you.........


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> So interesting!!,


The reason why that post was "interesting" to you is because it resulted in success and you hope the same will happen here.

Don't count on it, it probably won't.



Roses919191 said:


> ! I always thought the opposite, that the way to keep a man was to shower him with affection & make him feel secure.


Well, this still stands. The problem is, you don't have a man.

When it comes to boys and immature human beings you do follow her advice.

Once and if you ever find a man, what you stated stands! But it also goes both ways.



Roses919191 said:


> You're saying that instead, I should tell him to go ahead & take as much time as he needs to "reassess" our relationship, that I'll back off and give him space? Then let him wonder if I'm dating others in the meantime?!z


If you still have faith in this thing you guys have (which clearly you do)......don't date others. 

Simply tell her ok and DO NOT contact him at all (under any circumstances). See if he will reach out to you, make something happen........JUDGE HIM BASED ON ACTION.

He has shown you 0 interest and hasn't taken any action to show you that he cares about you and wants to proceed.

Assuming he does take action, DO NOT get intimate with him. Treat it as a first date....see how much of his free time he contributes towards you/into relationship.

I will warn you, from everything you said, be prepared to be deeply disappointed!

Good luck


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## Roses919191

I just want to figure out what I'm doing wrong to make him so unsure about me! I don't think it can be "different beliefs" which is why he said we should "take a step back and reassess." He was the one pushing sex early on not me, & I've told him I'm ok with not living together as long as there's some other indication of commitment, seriousness, a future together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> I just want to figure out what I'm doing wrong to make him so unsure about me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you are doing wrong is enabling him to be the way he is. 

He is no good and is using you for sex. This is not your fault, you are just a victim (of him, and your own heart, cause you are clearly still putting up with his BS).

Leave him, don't look back and find a guy that will treat you right and spend time with you. Measures person's love for you BY THEIR ACTION. 

How much time they spend with you etc. 

When a guy loves you he wants to be with you each and every day!!!

He is NOT that guy. He has 0 love for you.


----------



## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> I just want to figure out what I'm doing wrong to make him so unsure about me! I don't think it can be "different beliefs" which is why he said we should "take a step back and reassess." He was the one pushing sex early on not me, & I've told him I'm ok with not living together as long as there's some other indication of commitment, seriousness, a future together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what can you change about yourself that will make him like you? Because you must be doing something wrong which is why he's not committing
Am I understanding you correctly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

You're not doing anything wrong, aside from expecting him to want the same thing from the relationship as you do. You need to get over that. 

I disagree that he's a "bad guy" for doing what he's doing. He's trying to tell you that he's not that into you, and just wants a more casual relationship. You're chosing to fight against this, but still giving him what he wants. Start figuring out what your boundaries are, and then enforce them. If he's not the guy that meets your relationship needs, then move on. There's approximately 3.5 billion guys (minus 1) that might meet your criteria... Ok, leaved the married guys alone. And the old farts. And young guys... But still, lots of other fish in the sea. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

How is he trying to tell me he only wants a casual relationship? I've told him countless times I want something serious and his response is "of course I'm serious about you... I spend a lot of my very limited free time with you & met your family & u came to out of state wedding to meet all my best friends." How is he just in it for the sex when he's suddenly making an issue of living together being morally wrong & maybe that means we shouldn't sleep together either?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent

I'm starting to think that it's either a troll or someone who likes attention


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> How is he trying to tell me he only wants a casual relationship? I've told him countless times I want something serious and his response is "of course I'm serious about you... I spend a lot of my very limited free time with you & met your family & u came to out of state wedding to meet all my best friends." How is he just in it for the sex when he's suddenly making an issue of living together being morally wrong & maybe that means we shouldn't sleep together either?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your version of serious and his are vastly different. Think about that for a minute. You want him to call or text you daily and he can't/won't/isn't. You aren't understanding each other at all.


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## PBear

Again, watch and listen to his actions. You had to invite yourself on his trip. He can't be bothered to text you. What has he DONE to show you that he wants more than a casual relationship?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aspydad

I read through at least half the posts here so I may be repeating what someone else has said. But, to me this is not so complicated.

You seem to come here to see if anyone will tell you that your boyfriend (of less than one year) loves you - even though he will not make the statement. From the posts I have read, no one has told you this. If they did tell you this, my opinion is that they are wrong as the evidence is just not there.

From my dating time from 18 to when I was 21 and met my wife, I can tell you that I had some girls that I dated for more than a year that I did not commit to and of course they did not commit to me. One particular girl I did have sex with. She never pressured me to ever say I loved her - and the reason is because she did not love me and she wanted the same thing I wanted. I did not love this girl but did enjoy having someone to go out with and of course get sex. Now, I went out with others girls as well - sometimes we would go one month without getting together mainly because we both went to different colleges that were an hour apart. I only stopped asking her out because one time I met up with one of her old boyfriends that told me that he had sex with her like two weeks prior - well I had sex with her the next week - hearing that freaked me out - not that I was jealous but because it just grossed me out.

My point here is that your boyfriend is probably used to this type of arrangement. He likes spending time with you, likes the sex, but may not have fallen for you.

With my wife, it took me about two months to know that I was in love with her. Probably 4 months to tell her that and she actually told me she loved me at the same time. So us guys that like just casual relationships (which is all I was looking for with my wife-to-be) do think about these things so I will tell you that I believe your boyfriend has thought about it.

Now, two scenarios could exist here #1 he does not love you and knows it - but, as I indicated about how I used to be - he likes your company and of course the sex or #2 he does love you but just has never been in love before and really does not know what it is.

I can tell you that that is how I was before I met my wife - I actually was in-love with a girl my first year in college but I had no idea that that is what had happened - and actually, she was in love with me (I found almost 28 years later when I connected with her of Facebook – which this conenction was a very bad idea by the way - so we are not conencted via Facebook anymore) we were just so young (we were 18 years old) and so insecure (we were also at different colleges 1.5 hours apart and she was actually 4 hours from me that first summer) that we broke up over this - we just both had fragile hearts and gave up to avoid falling in any deeper.

To me, there is only one way to know if your boyfriend loves you – break it off!! He is going to know real quick if you do that – my wife and I dated 4.5 years prior to getting married – about two years into it she broke up with me for one weekend (actually because her parents made her – it is a long story) and this just devastated me – I realized real quick during that weekend that I did not want to live my life without this girl and would do anything to get her back (including graveling to her father) which is what I did. So if you break it off - and he is desparate to get you back - you will know. If you get not much of a reaction - you will know.

You are never going to know the way you are going here. To me, after 9 months, one does know if there is a future – so your boyfriend has a real good idea. I would just hate for you to get a few years into this and have him meet someone else and have him break your heart at that point – I think that would be much worse than finding out now.

Wish you luck.


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## Roses919191

Thank you so much for that advice. Really!! I'm just worried that breaking up with him would be playing games, since I truly do care about him and want to stay with him. But maybe if I said "you seem to need space so I'll give you that; I just can't wait around because I know what I do want in life"?6
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy

Roses919191 said:


> ...He didn't say I love u back....He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. ...He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text..... Never says anything about how he feels for me....





Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along....


_Findin' a natural woman
Like honey to a bee
But you don't buzz the flower
When you know the honey's free

Creedence Clearwater Revival - Bootleg_

He's already getting exactly what he wants...you won't be getting what you want. Stop wasting your time. He's just not that into you.


----------



## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> Thank you so much for that advice. Really!! I'm just worried that breaking up with him would be playing games, since I truly do care about him and want to stay with him. But maybe if I said "you seem to need space so I'll give you that; I just can't wait around because I know what I do want in life"?6
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Better..... Just mean it when you say you'll give him space.

I see a lot of worry about HIM in your posts, than YOU. It's ok to prioritize yourself and your wants and needs. It's ok to put boundaries in a relationship. It doesn't make you mean, a bad person, or a game player. Unhealthy relationships form because of these lack of boundaries.

You two have two different views on what "serious" and "committed" is. Your confused because your trying to place his reasoning in your own context in your mind. Instead of realizing he has his own ideas of commitment and relationships. There's nothing wrong with your view, and there's nothing wrong with saying "hey, this is what I want, can we do this?" He says no you have two options:

1. Accept his decision. He calls/texts when he wants. He doesn't move in. You two stop having sex, and you live that way because you love him so much, it's WORTH sacrificing your wants and needs for him. But be prepared because if he doesn't compromise on this, there will be other things that he won't compromise on either. This won't be your first sacrifice.
2. Say ok I understand that's not what you want but that's what I want. And I feel like we are either going to take the relationship to "this" next level, or I'm not going to be happy. I feel like we are ready, and I love you. If he says no and is uncompromising you break it off. And mean it. Move on, date other people.

I really see those as being your only two options

Your confused because your expecting rational compromise and he's not giving it you. He sees it his way only. It's not fair. But it doesn't sound like he cares about being fair to your feelings
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

Great piints. As I told him, I'd be fine with not livin together- or even not talking to him via text every day if he's busy- as long as I have some other indicator that this is serious & moving forward. Does that make sense?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> Great piints. As I told him, I'd be fine with not livin together- or even not talking to him via text every day if he's busy- as long as I have some other indicator that this is serious & moving forward. Does that make sense?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure. What exactly would he need to do? Be specific
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

He could say he loves me, want to discuss the future- where we'd live, how soon he'd want to get married. At least affirm tht he does want to get married... Although I guess in previous convo he did tell me that he thinks getting married in a couple of years is a reasonable time frame. Maybe I'll tell him, if you want space that's completely fine. If you don't want to be committed to me then I'm not going to sit around waiting for scraps, sleeping with you, when I know I have a lot to offer in an actual committed relationship. If you need time then you need time, but you must understand I may not still be around when you're "ready"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill

I didn't read everything. Too long. 

See the thing is he is telling you. He's answered every question you've asked him just not the answer you want. 

"I love you, do you love me?"

His answer, silence. 

"I want something serious"

His answer "let's bang on the first date"

"Would you move in with me?"

His answer "I've got religion"

He's given you every indication of what he wants. 

It's a world of plenty. Go out there and find a man who will cherish you for everything you are. Someone who will say "I love you" the moment you say it. 

My sister pined over a guy who repeatedly told her she was just a FWB. She tried to introduce me. Excited she told me "you'll like him, he down to earth". He blew her off. I was so sad for her. He did this a million times. She finally broke it off and found a guy who gave her what she needed. 

He's neither bad nor good. He's just not what you need.


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## DoF

OP simply lives in that LALA world and thinks she can paint a pretty picture and hopes her "boy" will become that.

That is as far from reality as one can get. I'm sorry.

If this is not a troll thread/post than I'm really loosing faith in human kind.


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## struggle

Roses919191 said:


> He could say he loves me, want to discuss the future- where we'd live, how soon he'd want to get married. At least affirm tht he does want to get married... Although I guess in previous convo he did tell me that he thinks getting married in a couple of years is a reasonable time frame. Maybe I'll tell him, if you want space that's completely fine. If you don't want to be committed to me then I'm not going to sit around waiting for scraps, sleeping with you, when I know I have a lot to offer in an actual committed relationship. If you need time then you need time, but you must understand I may not still be around when you're "ready"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The more clear you are with him the better. Men tend to be pretty simple in their thinking. We're more complex and emotional. Be specific and straightforward.

Clarify what it is that he wants, and what its you're open to comprimising on, to make sure you're on the same page.
I understand you think that we're not ready to move in together and have sex anymore because of your religious views. I also understand that you are very busy during the day because you're at work so we cannot talk often on the phone, etc etc. All the things that he told you. And then ask him, "am I understanding you correctly?" 

Then tell him exactly what you told us. "I want to know that our relationship is moving in the direction of serious committment. And there are things that I feel like you can do right now to assure me that we are moving in that direction"

Call me at least once a day (you shouldn't have to give any explanation WHY you want to talk to him at least once a day. This is a given in any relationship. If he fights this, you're honestly wasting your breath)

Be more affectionate and romantic with me and with our time together (I'm assuming he's already told you he loves you. So if he's putting any effort into this item, he will say it more. Things like romantic date nights would show you that he is putting effort into making you feel special - even if it is a netflix night with chinese take-out and a dozen roses, quick love note emails, there are a million ways to be affectionate and romatic. He can Google it)

Time frames and ultimatums are bad...saying this like...I'm giving you six months to make a decision on whether or not you're going to move in with me, are relationship killers. So keep time frames out of the conversation. Give him those TWO things that he can do for you, effective immediately, and in your OWN mind give him two weeks to show a significant effort in them. Don't remind him, don't argue with him about it anymore, make your point and give him the opportunity to show you he cares.

If you receive any sort of dubious look from him, and he starts saying things like "but I met your parents..." or anything else you've already discussed that has NOT been satisfactory to you. Then tell him - I know you did, but to me, that doesn't equal committed....THIS is what I need from you.....

If in the two weeks he makes significant changes in those two things, than that's a good sign he is at least trying. You then have to decide for how long you are ok with being like though, because I'm not so sure he's going to initiate the 'next step' in the relationship. But I think you should concentrate on this first part, and see how it works out, and come back here and let us know.

If he makes no effort whatsoever to change/improve those two simple little things in those two weeks, or if he only does it for a couple weeks then sinks back into old habits again, I think you have your answer. Stand up for yourself and break it off.

We all think you should break it off with him now. But it's really obvious you're not really ready to tell him "Sianara"....so set these boundries and see if he respects them.


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## Roses919191

U.E. McGill said:


> I didn't read everything. Too long.
> 
> See the thing is he is telling you. He's answered every question you've asked him just not the answer you want.
> 
> "I love you, do you love me?"
> 
> His answer, silence.
> 
> "I want something serious"
> 
> His answer "let's bang on the first date"
> 
> "Would you move in with me?"
> 
> His answer "I've got religion"
> 
> He's given you every indication of what he wants.
> 
> It's a world of plenty. Go out there and find a man who will cherish you for everything you are. Someone who will say "I love you" the moment you say it.
> 
> My sister pined over a guy who repeatedly told her she was just a FWB. She tried to introduce me. Excited she told me "you'll like him, he down to earth". He blew her off. I was so sad for her. He did this a million times. She finally broke it off and found a guy who gave her what she needed.
> 
> He's neither bad nor good. He's just not what you need.


His answer wasn't silence. I said "I love you, do you feel the same way?" He said "of course I do. Isn't i obvious by my actions?"
He has met my whole family.
When I ask about being serious he says "I thought that was clear bc I spend so much f my limited time with you and have met your family"

I just Don't get why he thinks our religious views are so different bc I want to live together, when he's clearly been fine with sex before I even was
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> His answer wasn't silence. I said "I love you, do you feel the same way?" He said "of course I do. Isn't i obvious by my actions?"
> He has met my whole family.
> When I ask about being serious he says "I thought that was clear bc I spend so much f my limited time with you and have met your family"
> 
> I just Don't get why he thinks our religious views are so different bc I want to live together, when he's clearly been fine with sex before I even was
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My question is why isn't his answers to your questions enough for you? What else do you want here?


----------



## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> I just Don't get why he thinks our religious views are so different bc I want to live together, when he's clearly been fine with sex before I even was
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dated the son of a minister who was fine having sex but living together was a big no-no because that was considered "*living in sin*." I'm sure premarital sex was also a sin, but people aren't always consistent with their religious beliefs and pick and choose which tenets they follow. I didn't care because I'm not into living with people if I'm not married to them. Living together is hard work, and I'm not up for the job unless there's a reason, like we've committed to a marriage.

What are his religious views? What religion is he? Does he go to church? Do you ever talk about religion or religious topics? Do you know the answers to any of this?

Maybe you ARE incompatible from a religious perspective.


----------



## Mr The Other

I travelled to Australia to visit my little sister. She had just split up with a chap who she was serious about, but was not serious about her. People were concerned that I would try and find him (I was a temperamental man). However, all that had happened is that having sex had stopped him spelling out how uninterested in anything serious he was and frankly I understood. 

My Dad summed it up by saying "When I was 24 I made promises and meant every one, but circumstance made a liar of me. When I was 34 I stopped making promises."

He is not a bad man. He is in a relationship is a pretty girl who is really good to him (if a bit over keen) and he tries to make it clear to her not to expect too much. She is really keen and he does not want to tell her to go away as they have a good thing as it is.


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## Mr The Other

norajane said:


> I dated the son of a minister who was fine having sex but living together was a big no-no because that was considered "*living in sin*." I'm sure premarital sex was also a sin, but people aren't always consistent with their religious beliefs and pick and choose which tenets they follow. I didn't care because I'm not into living with people if I'm not married to them. Living together is hard work, and I'm not up for the job unless there's a reason, like we've committed to a marriage.
> 
> What are his religious views? What religion is he? Does he go to church? Do you ever talk about religion or religious topics? Do you know the answers to any of this?
> 
> Maybe you ARE incompatible from a religious perspective.


The religion is a nonsense side thing. He just does not want to say that he is just not that keen on her.


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## norajane

Mr The Other said:


> The religion is a nonsense side thing. He just does not want to say that he is just not that keen on her.


Could be. 

I'm just trying to get her to look at this from a different perspective and step back. She seems too POSITIVE and READY to commit to a marriage with this guy, and if I recall her past threads, she has been positive and ready almost from the moment they first started dating. She has been trying to push him into saying he loves her and wants to live with her almost from the start. 

So, maybe she needs to take a step back from all her yearning and wanting it so much to really assess whether they are actually compatible long term.

Religious beliefs, money management attitudes, the desire or not for children, etc., are all important things to consider, understand and DISCUSS before ever _thinking _about marriage.

Her desire to lock. this. down. now. may be blinding her to long term considerations. It's not just about what he wants; it's also about what she wants, and right now, she sounds like all she wants is a commitment anyway anyhow no questions asked.


----------



## Mr The Other

norajane said:


> Could be.
> 
> I'm just trying to get her to look at this from a different perspective and step back. She seems too POSITIVE and READY to commit to a marriage with this guy, and if I recall her past threads, she has been positive and ready almost from the moment they first started dating. She has been trying to push him into saying he loves her and wants to live with her almost from the start.
> 
> So, maybe she needs to take a step back from all her yearning and wanting it so much to really assess whether they are actually compatible long term.
> 
> Religious beliefs, money management attitudes, the desire or not for children, etc., are all important things to consider, understand and DISCUSS before ever _thinking _about marriage.
> 
> Her desire to lock. this. down. now. may be blinding her to long term considerations. It's not just about what he wants; it's also about what she wants, and right now, she sounds like all she wants is a commitment anyway anyhow no questions asked.


Very fair.


----------



## doubletrouble

OP you're 27, so you're still learning a lot every day (I hope). 

But here is the thing, from a guy's POV who's had his share of games (in both directions).

You're a fun lay. You're getting too serious, but you're a fun lay, easy to look at, brag to my buddies about. So (in my younger days) I play you along so I can access the fun sex with you and have some good times to fill in when I'm not doing something more important, like... playing golf with my buddies. 

You get too serious, I sorta back off, but you're still willing to screw so I come on in a few more times. Then it's over, and I find the next one. 

You're on a list. Not in his heart.


----------



## Roses919191

If the religious views thing were a big issue, then why- the first time I brought up living together- did he just say "it's too soon, I've never lived with any gf before & I like having my own space"? Lots not like he said "omg I would never do that, I'm morally opposed" back THEN. Yet he says it now! I jus don't know what It is about me that makes me not worth commiting to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I jus don't know what It is about me that makes me not worth commiting to.


You are wasting your time trying to analyze this. He's only using it for an excuse. He's figured out that by saying something stupid like you, you will spend tons of time/effort trying to analyze and figure it out. They way your busy and he can continue his game of using you for fun and sex. Many of us have already told you that the religious excuse means nothing. It's just an excuse. 



Roses919191 said:


> I jus don't know what It is about me that makes me not worth commiting to.


Did you even watch the video I posted? It talks about why guys do this... need space, do not commit... and how women often make it worse by their behavior of chasing the guy, doing all the calling, and being so nice in return for the crumbs the guy gives them. 

There are many things that need to exist for a man to commit. 

He needs to have a lot more feelings than to just think you are hot and fun. There needs to be a spark, a feeling of in-love. We call this chemistry. It sound like the chemistry is not there. You cannot create chemistry where it does not exist. 

The other issue is that you seem to have very low self-esteem. If you do not value yourself to have and keep your own boundaries, he will see you in the same low-esteem way you see yourself. There are plenty of posts on this thread talking about you improving the way you view yourself and putting more value on yourself. Do you even get what is being told to you?


----------



## Aspydad

Roses919191 said:


> Thank you so much for that advice. Really!! I'm just worried that breaking up with him would be playing games, since I truly do care about him and want to stay with him. But maybe if I said "you seem to need space so I'll give you that; I just can't wait around because I know what I do want in life"?6
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you are in love with him and you do not want to lose him because it will hurt bad!! And, if you break up with him he may just say goodbye and you will always wonder what if I would have just stick it out.

Problem with this logic is, there is no question what if - I promise you if he lets you walk away now - you had no future with this guy and he is going to break your heart - and I tell you it will not be better if he does it a few years down the line – I actually think the pain will be multiplied. 

My thought process is that if you break it off now and he walks - then you will meet mister right that much sooner and you can have a wonderful life with him. I can tell you are a sweetheart - you will find the right guy eventually.

For the life of me, I cannot even comprehend why you would want to move in with this guy at this point? This makes no sense. Either you guys are in love and want to spend the rest of your life together – and get married. Or, you date until you both make this realization or break up. Nothing to do with religion. I tell you – you do not want to go down the road of combining finances when you have not even decided that you are going to spend the rest of your life together. Falling in love and being insecure about how your boyfriend feels about you can make you a little crazy – I get that as I have been there – but please use your logic and do not go there!


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## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> I jus don't know what It is about me that makes me not worth commiting to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As long as this is how you think, I think you will have difficulty developing a healthy relationship with a man. 

You're asking the wrong question. Ask yourself what commitment means to you and why it's so important. Do you think it will make you feel more secure, and you won't feel anxious or afraid he'll leave you? Do you think it will make you feel like you're "worth" a commitment? Ask yourself why you are hungry to commit to a man you believe doesn't think you're worthy of commitment. 

As long as you are on pins and needles and constantly analyzing everything and questioning everything and stressing out about it because you are uncomfortable, the idea of moving in together and marriage shouldn't be on the table.


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## CharlotteMcdougall

struggle said:


> The more clear you are with him the better. Men tend to be pretty simple in their thinking. We're more complex and emotional. Be specific and straightforward.
> 
> Clarify what it is that he wants, and what its you're open to comprimising on, to make sure you're on the same page.
> I understand you think that we're not ready to move in together and have sex anymore because of your religious views. I also understand that you are very busy during the day because you're at work so we cannot talk often on the phone, etc etc. All the things that he told you. And then ask him, "am I understanding you correctly?"
> 
> *Then tell him exactly what you told us. "I want to know that our relationship is moving in the direction of serious committment. And there are things that I feel like you can do right now to assure me that we are moving in that direction"
> 
> Call me at least once a day (you shouldn't have to give any explanation WHY you want to talk to him at least once a day. This is a given in any relationship. If he fights this, you're honestly wasting your breath)*
> 
> *Be more affectionate and romantic with me and with our time together (I'm assuming he's already told you he loves you. So if he's putting any effort into this item, he will say it more. Things like romantic date nights would show you that he is putting effort into making you feel special - even if it is a netflix night with chinese take-out and a dozen roses, quick love note emails, there are a million ways to be affectionate and romatic. He can Google it)*
> 
> Time frames and ultimatums are bad...saying this like...I'm giving you six months to make a decision on whether or not you're going to move in with me, are relationship killers. So keep time frames out of the conversation. Give him those TWO things that he can do for you, effective immediately, and in your OWN mind give him two weeks to show a significant effort in them. Don't remind him, don't argue with him about it anymore, make your point and give him the opportunity to show you he cares.
> 
> If you receive any sort of dubious look from him, and he starts saying things like "but I met your parents..." or anything else you've already discussed that has NOT been satisfactory to you. Then tell him - I know you did, but to me, that doesn't equal committed....THIS is what I need from you.....
> 
> If in the two weeks he makes significant changes in those two things, than that's a good sign he is at least trying. You then have to decide for how long you are ok with being like though, because I'm not so sure he's going to initiate the 'next step' in the relationship. But I think you should concentrate on this first part, and see how it works out, and come back here and let us know.
> 
> If he makes no effort whatsoever to change/improve those two simple little things in those two weeks, or if he only does it for a couple weeks then sinks back into old habits again, I think you have your answer. Stand up for yourself and break it off.
> 
> We all think you should break it off with him now. But it's really obvious you're not really ready to tell him "Sianara"....so set these boundries and see if he respects them.


A man in love doesn't need to be told to call his partner every day. He will want to do it naturally. 

When my husband and I first met, we talked on the phone every night. He told me that it was the closest he felt to anyone in such a short time and he rarely spoke to women he dated so often. 

I agree that ultimatums are bad news. I tried that with my husband and it blew up in my face. He came to commit to me in his own time. It felt sweeter that way than pushing him.


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## DoF

Just the fact that the guy is religious should be enough for OP to run away FAST


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## doubletrouble

DoF said:


> Just the fact that the guy is religious should be enough for OP to run away FAST


Why is that?


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## Roses919191

I'm going to tell him he's right- we should take a step back & I'm so glad he brought it up before I made a huge mistake. I'll tell him he's right, we shouldn't sleep together anymore because it just deepens a woman's need for closeness. I don't want to move in with h bc it's the right thibg for us to do, but rather be ste the constant sex- which our religion teaches us is reserved for marriage- is making me push for more by making me too attached. So if we take out the sex, I won't care nearly as much anymore & we 'll see if we like each other for the right reasons
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I'm going to tell him he's right- we should take a step back & I'm so glad he brought it up before I made a huge mistake. I'll tell him he's right, we shouldn't sleep together anymore because it just deepens a woman's need for closeness. I don't want to move in with h bc it's the right thibg for us to do, but rather be ste the constant sex- which our religion teaches us is reserved for marriage- is making me push for more by making me too attached. So if we take out the sex, I won't care nearly as much anymore & we 'll see if we like each other for the right reasons


What does 'step back' mean? Are you saying that you are going to agree to not see him for now? Or are you saying that you agree to not have sex but to still see him?

You need to be very clear about what you are saying when you talk to him.


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## doubletrouble

Roses919191 said:


> I'm going to tell him he's right- we should take a step back & I'm so glad he brought it up before I made a huge mistake. I'll tell him he's right, we shouldn't sleep together anymore because it just deepens a woman's need for closeness. I don't want to move in with h bc it's the right thibg for us to do, but rather be ste the constant sex- which our religion teaches us is reserved for marriage- is making me push for more by making me too attached. So if we take out the sex, I won't care nearly as much anymore & we 'll see if we like each other for the right reasons
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:yay::smthumbup:


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## DoF

doubletrouble said:


> Why is that?


Because most religious folks are completely dis attached from reality.

I will let George explain it better for me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

Mind you, I don't care if the person is MILDLY religious, but anything above that = deal breaker for me.


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## doubletrouble

DoF said:


> Because most religious folks are completely dis attached from reality.
> 
> I will let George explain it better for me...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
> 
> Mind you, I don't care if the person is MILDLY religious, but anything above that = deal breaker for me.


Hmmm. I didn't click the link but I'll guess George Carlin. A funny man, possibly not a hypocrite. 

I am suspicious of folks who wear religion on their sleeves, but am careful not to generalize them. I have always avoided dogma, preferring my own religion to those created by others. I call it spirituality. 

But to say avoid all religious people somewhat denigrates those who seriously try to be in touch with their spiritual side, don't you think?


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## Roses919191

I think my idea is perfect. If he refuses once the sex is gone- even though h e claims that's what he wants from religious standpoint- then I know he really was just in it for the sex!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Be ready for that, dear.


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## Roses919191

Doubtful since he was the one who brought up the idea in the first place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

What I mean is be emotionally prepared for that, since it will hurt even if you're right.


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## PBear

I'm betting on the slow fade on the relationship. Just gradually less and less interaction...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

He isn't one who has ever interacted a lot even when he claims he's so happy with me. I'm gonna find a way to turn it all around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

doubletrouble said:


> Hmmm. I didn't click the link but I'll guess George Carlin. A funny man, possibly not a hypocrite.
> 
> I am suspicious of folks who wear religion on their sleeves, but am careful not to generalize them. I have always avoided dogma, preferring my own religion to those created by others. I call it spirituality.
> 
> But to say avoid all religious people somewhat denigrates those who seriously try to be in touch with their spiritual side, don't you think?


Can't disagree there. But spirituality and organized religion are completely different things IMO.

I'm not saying avoid them. I'm just saying that I wouldn't date them or consider being in serious relationship with one (that doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't either).


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## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> He isn't one who has ever interacted a lot even when he claims he's so happy with me. I'm gonna find a way to turn it all around
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you're back to trying to force him into a relationship that he doesn't want... Good luck with that. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

PBear said:


> So you're back to trying to force him into a relationship that he doesn't want... Good luck with that.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My head = blown

This girl just needs to learn the hard way. I just don't see any willingness to relate or understand anything that has been said to her.

It will most likely take years and years of being used and abused......ohh well, we tried.


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## PBear

Btw, Roses... I think what you need to do is let it go. Let him SHOW you what kind of relationship he's interested in with you. That may mean he texts you once a day, or once a week. Enforce what boundaries you need (no sex till things are "serious"). But stop trying to force him into your idea of a relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> He isn't one who has ever interacted a lot even when he claims he's so happy with me. I'm gonna find a way to turn it all around


I've been thinking about this post since I read it right after you posted it......

That last sentence... it's a control thing. You want to control things. You cannot. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. As someone else said this statement makes is sound like you are going to try to force things. 

It's not going to work. you have been given a lot of good advice on this thread... to just stop seeing him. If he's serious he will come back in time and show you that he's serious. If he's not serious you will not be wasting anymore of your life on him.

With your approach and attitude, you are going to go on with this and continue to be hurt.. hurt you are setting yourself up for. But hey, if that's what you want, go for it.


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## ILoveSparkles

Roses919191 said:


> Why do people think I should leave him? He is nice to me & spends a lot of his limite free time with me- but it's usually just me initiating hanging out, not him reaching out & planning. Anything- or even reaching out for 1 text a day
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Is this your first boyfriend?

Face it, he's using you for sex. Of course he's nice to you....you give yourself freely and easily to him. I bet if you closed your legs and put the brakes on sex, he'd be gone.


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## ILoveSparkles

Roses919191 said:


> Hm, but if he's there for the sex, then why (when I called him out on the hypocrisy of refusing to live together for religious reasons, but pushing sex with me right away) did he say "you're right, maybe we just shouldn't sleep together anymore"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he knows you're still going to sleep with him. Even if you do stop having sex with him, he won't care. He'll just move on. 

Actions speak louder than words (or lack thereof).....stop listening to his words and start watching his actions.


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## englem007

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


like others said, sounds like he is not into the relationship..im dealing with a similar situation,but we have only been together for about 3.5 months..She has become little distant,less affectionate..but in my situation, she suffers from depressions some...i realized something for me though(dont know if your this way) take a step back and dont contact him as much,do you smother him to much? for me i was doing that, so i thought ill do my own thing, and to my surprise she came back around calling me more...


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## englem007

Roses919191 said:


> I just don't get why he strings me Along. I've told him repeatedly that I want a future & am not just dating casually at this point in life. If he can't even be bothered to text me once a day, why is he even with me, and claiming he's "very happy in the relationship until yesterday" (which is when I finally brought up my concerns to him instead of playing like everything's so perfect)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE
> 
> just focus on yourself, take a break,dont focus so much on him. Hang out with your friends more..its easier said than done. I know im doing this now, giving my gf space,been about 2 weeks since ive seen her. But if you guys were meant to be together and relationship is strong it will work out


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## Roses919191

Yes said:


> Is this your first boyfriend?
> 
> Face it, he's using you for sex. Of course he's nice to you....you give yourself freely and easily to him. I bet if you closed your legs and put the brakes on sex, he'd be gone.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

Everyone was wrong .


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## Mr The Other

Roses919191 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Everyone was wrong .


Good. He is still interested then. The challenge is to keep your legs shut for a good few weeks. If he is still interested, understand what you want and make it clear to him. This is not an immediate thing.

Good luck and well done.


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## PBear

I'd be happy to be wrong in this case, but why don't you post back in a month and let us know how things are going. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33

PBear said:


> I'd be happy to be wrong in this case, but why don't you post back in a month and let us know how things are going.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She will...she will just change the 9 months to 10 months.


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## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Everyone was wrong .


Why did you edit your post? 

I believe you had said before editing that he had been feeling religious guilt for having sex, much less moving in together. And that it was decided you wouldn't have sex together anymore. And that now he is inviting you over for dinners and stuff, without sex.

Ok. How do you feel about this change of direction in your relationship? Are you more comfortable and relaxed about it now? Do you trust his words and feelings for you now?


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## Roses919191

YES it's like a whole new relationship. He'll give me a great kiss good night after cookin me dinner but without sex. And texts me all the time now, like "hi beautiful, I have this funny story," even if I know he's busy at his job. I can't believe he said he wanted to take sex out of the relationship 1) because of our religion but also 2) because he is concerned with how we can build a "lasting foundation" together!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

So give it time. See how things go.


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## norajane

Yay, progress. Maybe now you can both relax and see what's what between you.


----------



## Mr The Other

Roses919191 said:


> YES it's like a whole new relationship. He'll give me a great kiss good night after cookin me dinner but without sex. And texts me all the time now, like "hi beautiful, I have this funny story," even if I know he's busy at his job. I can't believe he said he wanted to take sex out of the relationship 1) because of our religion but also 2) because he is concerned with how we can build a "lasting foundation" together!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well done on being open to a new approach. That is a very difficult step to take. Stick with it, do not get carried away, but enjoy it.


----------



## Roses919191

Thanks! It's encouraging because I feel he's definitely thinking of this relationship getting serious now & really cares deeply about me. Otherwise, he wouldn't spend his time and effort on being sweet an romantic with a girl when he knows he's getting no sex. You don't take away sex "in order to build the proper foundation for us" if you're just casually into a girl
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

It sounds like both of you were not happy with things the way they were. He's made some changes. We'll see where this goes. It does look more promising than you originally portrayed it all. 

Keep us posted.


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## Roses919191

He's been really affectionate & great. When I said I love you the first time & asked If he felt the same, he said "of course I do" but seemed to have a problem actuly saying the phrase back. Well I said I love you for the second time. He said "you know how I feel about you right?" I said "not really, you don't tell me anything." He said "I care very deeply for you. I just barely ever said those words growing up, and I've never said them to anyone I've dated. I will. I just need a little more time, okay?" He dated someone for 3 years in the past though, and she was talking about wanting to get married! This is interesting to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much

Roses919191 said:


> He's been really affectionate & great. When I said I love you the first time & asked If he felt the same, he said "of course I do" but seemed to have a problem actuly saying the phrase back. Well I said I love you for the second time. He said "you know how I feel about you right?" I said "not really, you don't tell me anything." He said "I care very deeply for you. I just barely ever said those words growing up, and I've never said them to anyone I've dated. I will. I just need a little more time, okay?" He dated someone for 3 years in the past though, and she was talking about wanting to get married! This is interesting to me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After about 3 years of dating, I think it's completely reasonable to want to get married. Usually you know by then if that's the one. He didn't get there then, and who knows if he will with you either?


----------



## Roses919191

Well, he was a few years younger with that girlfriend. When I was a few years younger, I left my ex of 7 years not long after he proposed to me. He says he'll get there soon with the words I love you & I trust him. I mean he definitely does want marriage an kids in life; he told me so
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

So, we are no longer having sex due to our religious views & him bringing up how we need to build the "right" foundation for future if we want this to last. But he's still just as affectionate with me otherwise, actually more. We talk & see each other constantly & he seems just as happy as I am. He talks to that coworker about work related things but they never hang out or even text anymore. Tells me that of course his ultimate goal for our relationship is marriage though he recognizes that his timetable may be a bit slower than mine "and that's ok that our timetables are a little different" he says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AliceA

Roses919191 said:


> So, we are no longer having sex due to our religious views & him bringing up how we need to build the "right" foundation for future if we want this to last. But he's still just as affectionate with me otherwise, actually more. We talk & see each other constantly & he seems just as happy as I am. He talks to that coworker about work related things but they never hang out or even text anymore. Tells me that of course his ultimate goal for our relationship is marriage though he recognizes that his timetable may be a bit slower than mine "and that's ok that our timetables are a little different" he says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course it's okay, you're going by his timetable. It's like saying it's okay that you and like two different kinds of bread, and because I'm so wonderful, we're only having the one I like. :smthumbup:


----------



## AVR1962

Either emotionally unavailable man or does not have the same interest in the relationship.

My husband was this way while we were dating. I was the one making more contact, I was the one wanting to get together, I was the one initiating intimacy and saying the "I love yous." He acted burned by his ex who he had been divorced from for 3 years, said he was being careful. I asked him repeatedly if he wanted the relationship and if he was interested in me and he always said he was, said he had never been the pursuing type. Nothing ever changed even after we married. 

Counselors have diagnosed him as emotionally unavailable and have actually tried to help him, and I will say he has tried but his interest are those of his own and not much beyond that. We have been together 25 years and I can say at times it has been a very lonely existence.

My advise to you is to move on. Don't stay with anyone who cannot show or voice their interests in you.


----------



## PBear

Roses, so long as you're both happy, that's great! Thanks for posting back

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

This is awful. Almost a year & he can't say he loves me. "I care very deeply about you, I just need more time to say those words because I've never ever said them to anyone I've dated even after 3 years." About getting married, he says it has to be when the time is right and he "can't just conform to my timetable." He said he always swore he wouldn't get married for 5 more years "and now I've considered moving that up because of you, and that's all I can offer."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

He has a different timetable than you do. You can't change him so you have to decide if you can live with the situation you're in.


----------



## Roses919191

I can live with a different timetable. The real problem is I'm starting to doubt whether he even has true feelings for me at all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

His actions will speak to that since there's no other way for you to know.


----------



## Cosmos

OP, what do you mean by:-



Roses919191 said:


> ...*we are no longer having sex *due to our religious views & him bringing up how we need to build the "right" foundation for future if we want this to last.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 ?

Do you mean that you used to have sex but stopped due to religious views etc? If so, that's rather like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, and I think most people would find that it would put a strain on the relationship...

There's nothing wrong with taking things slowly, but at this stage I think you need to know that your both on the same page as to whether or not you're in love with one another.


----------



## Fabiovelli

PBear said:


> I'd be happy to be wrong in this case, but why don't you post back in a month and let us know how things are going.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

He just "can't" say those words yet. After 10 moths. At this rate am I just going to be wasting years of my life waiting for someone to propose and want to start a family?! Can't even say 3 simple words & never has to any girl?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JJG

How on earth can you be talking about marrying man that has never even told you he loves you? That isn't healthy.

Please stop listening to what he says and start reading his actions. Nothing in his actions has shown that he is serious about you.

Please move on and learn from this experience.


----------



## Roses919191

What an idiot, since telling me that he can't live with me for religious reasons & saying "we shouldn't be sleeping together either, I can't believe you feel no guilt," he has refused going to church even when I'm going & he tried to have sex worh me the other night- I had to say no!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

What do you want us to tell you?


----------



## Roses919191

That I am or am not crazy for believing this guy would ever marry me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CuddleBug

Roses919191 said:


> So, we are no longer having sex due to our religious views & him bringing up how we need to build the "right" foundation for future if we want this to last. But he's still just as affectionate with me otherwise, actually more. We talk & see each other constantly & he seems just as happy as I am. He talks to that coworker about work related things but they never hang out or even text anymore. Tells me that of course his ultimate goal for our relationship is marriage though he recognizes that his timetable may be a bit slower than mine "and that's ok that our timetables are a little different" he says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I wasn't mentally mature enough or ready for marriage until around 24 years old. Then it just clicked for me, I met Mrs.CuddleBug and 1 year later, we were married. It felt right and we got engaged after 6 months of dating. We waited until a few days before we got married to move in together. Mrs. CuddleBug and I both agreed, no point in having full sex, date for years and the relationship goes no were. Waste of time for that, so we got married and never looked back. I am the God fearing Christian man and she is neutral because her dad is an atheist and her mom believes. 

If you know he will never marry you, then cut your loses and find another man. Don't waste years waiting for nothing.....

Wish you guys all the best.:smthumbup:


----------



## Miss Independent

You're not crazy. So what are you planning to do?


----------



## turnera

Roses919191 said:


> I can live with a different timetable. The real problem is I'm starting to doubt whether he even has true feelings for me at all!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jesus Christ, Rose. He spends all his time with you. He wants to be around you. He's making plans to be with you. And - as ALWAYS! - because he won't say those three stupid words, you're ready to destroy your relationship. Just like every OTHER thread you've started for the EXACT SAME REASON.


----------



## NotEZ

10 months??? Seriously? I get that some people get serious quickly, but i would actually be scared of someone wanting to marry me after 10 months. How do you even know someone after 10 months? Maybe i missed something in this thread, i didnt read it all.


----------



## turnera

She's been asking this question for months.


----------



## devotion

With my ex-wife I told her I loved her about three months in, and she responded in kind. With my current girlfriend she told me she loved me about six weeks in and I responded in kind. I was thinking along those lines and was even thinking about saying something in the next couple of weeks to her, she just beat me to it, so it was easy to respond "I love you too."

So we were on the same wave length about that. But the flip side is I know couples who want a LONG time to say it. Who never get married. And are perfectly happy. But if you won't be one of those couples, you have to move on. There are things that bother me about my GF (I posted about one) .. but they are not deal breakers. We talk about it and she makes small but noticeable changes to make me feel loved. If its black and white -- you need him to say he loves you, and he won't -- then move on if its still not happening. 

Otherwise accept it and it does seem his actions are just fine otherwise...


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> What an idiot, since telling me that he can't live with me for religious reasons & saying "we shouldn't be sleeping together either, I can't believe you feel no guilt," he has refused going to church even when I'm going & he tried to have sex worh me the other night- I had to say no!


He's jerking you around. 

He wants to be in control. You finally agreed to his no-sex thing. So now he wants sex.

Does he go to a different church than you go to?


----------



## Roses919191

We go to the same church. His buddies said they always pegged him as the type of guy who would never rush into living with a girl & likes his own space. But the other day we drove past these apts and my BF was like "let's stop by the leasing office" and told the lady "WE are looking at apts" she asked budget and he looked at me & said "well it depends..." With a smile. Then he said "there's no kitchen counter space, I don't care but that's a deal breaker for her." I have only slept at my own apt 1 day in the past month, even though we aren't having sex anymore he Says "I could have the worst day but it's all fine as long as I fall asleep next to you." And he told me "I used to say I wouldn't get married for at least 5 more years but now that I met you that's changed."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spunkycat08

DoF said:


> Before that = you are doing it wrong
> 
> Sex from date 1 = HUGE red flag. I can't stress this enough and will repeat myself over and over on this subject. Intimacy too early in the relationship is the WORST thing for both parties involved. Wait few months, get to know the person, build proper foundation LONG LONG before intimacy.
> 
> HUGE mistake on your part if intimacy was in the picture within weeks of dating/starting relationship.
> 
> Heck, personally I wouldn't sleep with a person I don't love or doesn't love me back.
> 
> Sex without feelings = worthless to me. I have 0 desire for it. Let me take that back, I have desire for it when I think with my penis....but I shut down those feeling QUICK (learned to over the years anyways).
> 
> Actions speak louder than words.
> 
> If a man can't take a min of his time to call you, hang out with your or "text" you (IMO texting is rather childish...but whatever)......that means he has very little desire to be your partner/significant other.
> 
> He likes the sex (chances are).
> 
> What I would focus on is yourself here. Learn the lessons!!!
> 
> You are definitely being too pushy too soon. And sounds like intimacy too soon is an issue as well.
> 
> Work on those things......
> 
> As for him, I would dump him QUICK. You are clearly not getting what you are looking for from him and his feelings are just not on par with yours.
> 
> NEXT


:iagree:


----------



## veryconfuzed

Roses919191 said:


> That I am or am not crazy for believing this guy would ever marry me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't force anyone to do what they don't want to do. If he can't give you what you want then what's the point in staying?

And the religious reason for not marrying you but okay to do you from day 1 is just laughable. I would have laughed in his face when he said that and dump him right there and then.

You're not crazy, just gullible.


----------



## veryconfuzed

Roses919191 said:


> We go to the same church. His buddies said they always pegged him as the type of guy who would never rush into living with a girl & likes his own space. But the other day we drove past these apts and my BF was like "let's stop by the leasing office" and told the lady "WE are looking at apts" she asked budget and he looked at me & said "well it depends..." With a smile. Then he said "there's no kitchen counter space, I don't care but that's a deal breaker for her." I have only slept at my own apt 1 day in the past month, even though we aren't having sex anymore he Says "I could have the worst day but it's all fine as long as I fall asleep next to you." And he told me "I used to say I wouldn't get married for at least 5 more years but now that I met you that's changed."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, this looks promising but still he might just be doing this to appease you.

I am married with my husband, he even got approved for a house loan and we were looking for months and months for a house... guess what?

We're still living in the same sh-ithole.  No house bought.

But apartment hunting is VERY different from marriage which is what you want right?

Or are you okay with just living together?


----------



## Roses919191

Oh he stresses over & over that he wants marriage & kids and it's not building the right foundation for us to live together before marriage (or have sex for that matter). I think he just includes me in the apt hunting because he just always wants me around. I sleep in my own apt one night a month, an if I'm gone from his for a few hours he asks "well why don't you just come here?" And no it's not for sex- we haven't had sex in a month!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Honestly, both of you just sound like you need therapy.


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Oh he stresses over & over that he wants marriage & kids and it's not building the right foundation for us to live together before marriage (or have sex for that matter). I think he just includes me in the apt hunting because he just always wants me around. I sleep in my own apt one night a month, an if I'm gone from his for a few hours he asks "well why don't you just come here?" And no it's not for sex- we haven't had sex in a month!


So you are now both training your bodies to not respond sexually to each other... while you are intimate situations like sleeping together. How long are the two of you going to do this? If you go long, you will kill your sexual desire for each other.

When people don't have sex and are saving themselves for marriage they don't put themselves in a situation where they need to turn themselves off like this.


----------



## Roses919191

He spends all the free time he has with me & texts or calls if were apart. He always wants to sleep in the same bed but rarely tries anything. Rarely there are nights where neither of us can stop at a good night kiss... But then it's just oral. He makes grocery lists with me & I feel like he does everything short of officially living with me because that'd be condemned by people of his family, friends, & church 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> He spends all the free time he has with me & texts or calls if were apart. He always wants to sleep in the same bed but rarely tries anything. Rarely there are nights where neither of us can stop at a good night kiss... But then it's just oral
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your definition of sex is much looser than mine...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

Oh I'm totally fine with it morally since it can't get you pregnant. I guess I feel like he does everything he can to be with me 24/7 short of livin together officially which I know none of his family or Frieda would ever do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Oh I'm totally fine with it morally since it can't get you pregnant. I guess I feel like he does everything he can to be with me 24/7 short of livin together officially which I know none of his family or Frieda would ever do.


Oral is sex.

If you are not having PIV sex due to religious reasons. Then what you are doing is hypocritical as it's still sex and still fornication.

If this continues he will get to the point that only oral sex will satisfy him.


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> Oh I'm totally fine with it morally since it can't get you pregnant. I guess I feel like he does everything he can to be with me 24/7 short of livin together officially which I know none of his family or Frieda would ever do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So after you're married, you'd be fine with him getting blow jobs from other women, since he can't get them pregnant?

Personally, I wouldn't get married or even plan on living with someone that I didn't have a healthy sexual relationship with first. So I'm not dissing you for having premarital sex. But your (and moreso, his) logic for what's allowed or not allowed escapes me. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roses919191

I can't completely forego having any sort of sex with him as we have awesome chemistry & are very attracted to each other. It's hard because he seems to want to sleep next to me every night, do everything short of officially living together which we aren't allowed" to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Good grief, guys, leave her alone. She's finally getting ok with the status of their relationship and learning to relax and enjoy herself.


----------



## PBear

Right. So you're not "living together" but just sleeping together every night. And you're not having sex, but making each other orgasm through oral means on a regular basis. And he still isn't telling you that he loves you...

Hey, if you're happy, knock yourself out!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

PBear said:


> Right. So you're not "living together" but just sleeping together every night. And you're not having sex, but making each other orgasm through oral means on a regular basis. And he still isn't telling you that he loves you...
> 
> Hey, if you're happy, knock yourself out!
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## turnera

I've seen other people find ways 'around' their religious beliefs and overbearing families. Just enjoy yourself.


----------



## Roses919191

I don't think it's that bad. Religious influences are strong for both of us & we just try to balance it with how much we are attracted to each other & like being together 24/7. And I know he's weird with the phrase I love you but he makes comments like "do you not think I love you?! Really?!" And asks me to promise to move to a city we both love with him once he finishes grad school, and says he used to say he wouldn't get married before 5 years from now but "now I've changed that because of you." I know he's a little confusing 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

EleGirl said:


> If this continues he will get to the point that only oral sex will satisfy him.


Uh No!


----------



## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> I don't think it's that bad. Religious influences are strong for both of us & we just try to balance it with how much we are attracted to each other & like being together 24/7. And I know he's weird with the phrase I love you but he makes comments like "do you not think I love you?! Really?!" And asks me to promise to move to a city we both love with him once he finishes grad school, and says he used to say he wouldn't get married before 5 years from now but "now I've changed that because of you." I know he's a little confusing
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're both confusing. You swing constantly from anguish about the relationship, to defending the relationship. He's struggling with his feelings and thoughts about himself in this relationship, and relationships as a whole. 

I have to question your seeming desperation to be married, and how well that can work with someone who is seemingly hesitant about marriage as well as awkward about relationships and love. Your need for security/attachment doesn't mesh well with his fear of commitment/intimacy.

Someone once told me about someone I was dating: your neuroses aren't complementary. 

We won't be able to tell you if you two can work it out. Usually, it involves time and trust and communication. And self-reflection. Each of you need to look inside yourselves and figure out what's driving you. And a lot of honesty and truth with each other. Do you see the two of you being able to do that?


----------



## Q tip

Scenarios....

- Break up with him. Meet a great guy, get married and two years later tell us all "OMG, how could I have wasted so much time with that loser".
- Don't break up with him and two years later tell us all "OMG, how could I have ever wasted so much time with this loser". 

He's either married or mental, neither is for you.

Marriage: A relationship where she hopes he'll change but doesn't; and where he hopes she'll never change but does. What he's doing now won't stop.


----------



## Sanity

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes *24+ hours *without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I think deep down in your soul you know this guy is a selfish person that will never meet your emotional needs. Dump him and do it via text and respond to his begging you back after 24 hours with the message "Lose my number".


----------



## Roses919191

I don't see him as selfish, as he's constantly seeking to spend time with me, ask how my day is, etc even without getting anything from me- ie sex
As soon as we had the Talk about our religion & values, & he told me how his best buddy said if you want a relationship to last & havr the right foundation then you need to stop having sex- and I agreed (as those are really my values as well), our relationship changed a lot. Forget 24 hours without a text, he texts me all the time & sees me every single night even though there's never sex on the table but is still sweet & romantic
I don't quite get it but he seems more attached, romantic, loving since we had the talk about no longer having sex last month!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

He respects you more.


----------



## PBear

Um... He's getting sex from you. Sex ISN'T off the table. Just saying...

C


----------



## DoF

Roses919191 said:


> I don't see him as selfish, as he's constantly seeking to spend time with me, ask how my day is, etc even without getting anything from me- ie sex
> As soon as we had the Talk about our religion & values, & he told me how his best buddy said if you want a relationship to last & havr the right foundation then you need to stop having sex- and I agreed (as those are really my values as well), our relationship changed a lot. Forget 24 hours without a text, he texts me all the time & sees me every single night even though there's never sex on the table but is still sweet & romantic
> I don't quite get it but he seems more attached, romantic, loving since we had the talk about no longer having sex last month!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does he communicate his feelings to you? Did he ever say he loves you and is he being affectionate?

I know you said that he was very "closed off" when it came to showing his feelings.....has that been addressed?


----------



## Roses919191

It's better. He said he hasn't said the words "I love you" bc he's never said them to anyone he's dated & he just needs more time. Then he immediately said "do u not feel like I love you? I hope not!" oAnd says other things about how he used to not want to get married for another 5 years but now has changed that thinking because of me. He buys me little gifts & says "even if I had the worst day at work it's better waking up next to you the next morning" - even with nothing other than a quick goodnight kiss at night, no sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

A large part of this thread was about how most people think he is using you for sex. That you should stop having sex and you will see how he responds.

Then you say that you stopped having sex and he has been very attentive. Proving that everyone was wrong. 

But in reality, you haven't cut him off at all. All you did was stop intercourse. But I am sure he is still getting his rocks off with you whenever he wants.

I think he is using you to get his rocks off. He likes you, but doesn't love you.


----------



## Roses919191

One blow job in the last month - 30 nights- I've slept w him. He's never tried for anything otherwise, other than kisses & PG cuddling. The night of the BJ I actually brought up sex in a moment of weakness & he said no.

I don't think I'm being used here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

Roses919191 said:


> One blow job in the last month - 30 nights- I've slept w him. He's never tried for anything otherwise, other than kisses & PG cuddling. The night of the BJ I actually brought up sex in a moment of weakness & he said no.
> 
> I don't think I'm being used here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, I mis-read your previous message about giving in with oral. I read it as there was rarely a night you DIDN'T, which wasn't what you said. 

If you're happy, fill your boots. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Roses919191 said:


> Rarely there are nights where neither of us can stop at a good night kiss... But then it's just oral. _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doesn't sound like one moment of weakness!

Actually, when reading this, you might be saying that you usually just stop at a good night kiss. 

I was reading it as you can rarely stop! Maybe I read it incorrectly because that is what I would consider normal for two people who are into each other, your age and fairly early into a relationship. Especially when you were sexually active before. 

When I was at that point with my wife, there would have been no way that I could sleep next to her without reaching out. If we had decided to stop having sex, I would have had to ask her to leave at night, as I would not be able to 'just sleep' with her lying next to me.


----------



## Roses919191

He never even t old his own dad he lved him. But am I just wasting years waiting for a guy to love me, make plans for the future, who never will?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

I thought everything was wonderful.

What's going on?


----------



## Roses919191

I'm tired of him doing nice thibgs and telling me I "should feel loved" but he just can't say it! In tired of feeling like I might wait around for 5 years before getting married. Why doesn't he just love me? (And when I ask him that he just falls asleep)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

A good relationship does not cause this kind of confusion/pain you are going through. 

He's playing games with you. Why doesn't he say "I love you"? Because he gets too much power by not saying it.

What is going on is emotional abuse.

We all tried to tell you a long time ago. But you told us that we were wrong. 

Some people have to burn their hand on the stove just to see if it's really too hot.. even after they are warned.

Why would you stay with someone who is so emotionally immature that they won't even say "I love you." Why would you stay with some who just falls asleep when you are talking to him?


----------



## Roses919191

Because his actions are usually so nice and loving? And I thought I could overlook the words? I don't know why he'd keep me hanging around if he didn't care?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

He cannot do a simple thing that would make you feel secure. He knows that you need this but he cannot do it.

When you date someone, the purpose is to find out who they are and if they are a good fit for you. The purpose is not to force yourself to stay with them no matter how confused and badly they make you feel.

His not telling you that he loves you is a way for him to tell you (very indirectly) that he will always do what he wants to do and meeting your needs is not important to him.


----------



## clipclop2

Is this the same guy you were upset wouldn't live with you at 6 months?

I suspect he doesn't see you as the marrying kind.


----------



## Roses919191

He said "if you really don't feel loved by me, then do whatever you need to do"
All I asked for are 3 words, what the hell? He acts so cold and emotionless. "Make whatever decision you need to make if you truly don't feel I love you. In my culture we never said it even to our parents just showed it"?!?!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

So are you actually going to do anything different or just keep staying in the same dynamic?

It's clear you're not happy in this relationship. 

Beating a dead horse.


----------



## turnera

Roses919191 said:


> He never even t old his own dad he lved him. But am I just wasting years waiting for a guy to love me, make plans for the future, who never will?


You haven't even been together for a year yet!


----------



## Omar174

Roses919191 said:


> He said "if you really don't feel loved by me, then do whatever you need to do"
> All I asked for are 3 words, what the hell? He acts so cold and emotionless. "Make whatever decision you need to make if you truly don't feel I love you. In my culture we never said it even to our parents just showed it"?!?!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What culture is that? :scratchhead:

He is full of sh!t, he doesn't love you. 

And you come off as being super needy and clingy. Some dudes like that but most find it annoying and off-putting.


----------



## PBear

He's not "keeping you hanging around". You're entirely responsible for "hanging around". If you don't like it, move on already. 

You need to do a lot of thinking about your needs and wants in a relationship, and what compromises are acceptable. Perhaps "His Needs, Her Needs", and "5 Love Languages" (I think there's one for single people too). But focus on yourself and the growth you need to do before being in a relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> He's not "keeping you hanging around". You're entirely responsible for "hanging around". If you don't like it, move on already.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

There is nothing left to say.


----------



## norajane

EleGirl said:


> He cannot do a simple thing that would make you feel secure. He knows that you need this but he cannot do it.
> 
> When you date someone, the purpose is to find out who they are and if they are a good fit for you. The purpose is not to force yourself to stay with them no matter how confused and badly they make you feel.
> 
> His not telling you that he loves you is a way for him to tell you (very indirectly) that he will always do what he wants to do and meeting your needs is not important to him.


She's all intent on marrying him, and has been for months, so it would appear that he actually IS meeting her needs. Right? Otherwise, she wouldn't be so anxious to marry him.

I certainly wouldn't be determined to marry someone who doesn't meet my needs. Hell, I'm not even so super determined to marry my SO who is meeting _all _my needs and then some, and we've been together for years.


----------



## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> Because his actions are usually so nice and loving? And I thought I could overlook the words? I don't know why he'd keep me hanging around if he didn't care?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If his actions are so nice and loving, it sounds like you don't trust his actions enough to feel positive about your relationship.

Do you really believe that just hearing the words "I love you" will make any difference to you if he doesn't follow that up with "and I want to marry you next week"? I don't think you would trust the words if he doesn't propose right away. You'll be back here saying, "he says he loves me, but he doesn't want me to move in or get married!" 

He's not keeping you hanging around. You are choosing to hang around. Maybe you should choose to break up and search for someone who can say the words. Keep in mind, someone who says the words really quickly doesn't always mean them and doesn't always back those up with loving actions.


----------



## Roses919191

norajane said:


> If his actions are so nice and loving, it sounds like you don't trust his actions enough to feel positive about your relationship.
> 
> Do you really believe that just hearing the words "I love you" will make any difference to you if he doesn't follow that up with "and I want to marry you next week"? I don't think you would trust the words if he doesn't propose right away. You'll be back here saying, "he says he loves me, but he doesn't want me to move in or get married!"


Spot on. In my past, I had a fiancé & I didn't believe he "really" loved me even though we were planning a wedding & he said the words. He was abusive! So it's hard to ever trust people, you know, after your fiancé tries to strangle you & calls you fat & a b!tch often.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## devotion

My culture also doesn't normally say I love you. Till recently I never told my parents or vice versa I loved them though I did. That said when my ex wife brought it up I said it because I meant it and it was important to her. Now me and my gf say it all the time. Her culture was same way and she changed from watching her cousin deal with his kids. So culture excuse is true but you change for ones you truly love if its important to them.


----------



## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> Spot on. In my past, I had a fiancé & I didn't believe he "really" loved me even though we were planning a wedding & he said the words. He was abusive! So it's hard to ever trust people, you know, after your fiancé tries to strangle you & calls you fat & a b!tch often.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would give a person trust issues, for sure.

That's why you need to SLOW DOWN on wanting commitment from your bf, or any man. It takes a long time to know a person well enough to decide to spend the rest of your life with them. 

And it seems you, better than anyone, would understand that words are meaningless unless backed up with actions. Don't put so much emphasis on hearing him SAY he loves you; put a lot more trust in the way he SHOWS you that he loves you.

Your bf has been burned by an ex, too, if I recall correctly. Trust and words may not come so easily to him, either.


----------



## clipclop2

So you dumped the ex?


----------



## Roses919191

I dumped the abusive guy. My current bf says he's never said I love you to anyone except his mom (not even dad) once in his life, but he believes I should feel very loved in our relationship by his actions. And yes he spends every single night with me, with no benefit of sex (due to religious beliefs), & is constantly doing nice things for me like heavy labor around my apt & planning for my bday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2

Accept it or don't.

Make a decision and live with it.

Maybe he is gay.


----------



## Roses919191

Not based on the crazy good sex we had right up until we stopped. I don't know, I think I'm the type to always look for a problem, and I cant just feel happy that he spends basically every waking hour with me even without sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I dumped the abusive guy. My current bf says he's never said I love you to anyone except his mom (not even dad) once in his life, but he believes I should feel very loved in our relationship by his actions. And yes he spends every single night with me, with no benefit of sex (due to religious beliefs), & is constantly doing nice things for me like heavy labor around my apt & planning for my bday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No sex? I thought you were giving him bj's in place of piv sex.

BJ's are sex. If he's getting that then sure he's happy.


----------



## Roses919191

No... Nothing in 1 month plus
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ILoveSparkles

Roses919191 said:


> Not based on the crazy good sex we had right up until we stopped. I don't know,_* I think I'm the type to always look for a problem, and I cant just feel happy that he spends basically every waking hour with me even without sex.*_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you AREN'T happy that he spends all of his time with you??

What is it exactly that you are looking for in this relationship?

If you are one to always look for a problem, then you are a "glass is half empty" person. You focus on negatives instead of the positives in life. That is not an endearing trait in a mate and maybe your BF picks up on this and doesn't want to commit to a lifetime of this thought process.


----------



## Sanity

OP,

Your BF is milking the cow with no intention of feeding it grass. Get another farmer.


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## golfergirl

19 pages of the same crap. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy. I don't get why you are here? You strike me as someone who likes the drama. If you want to get married sooner - finds another guy. I think if you ever had a shot with him you're losing it. I think you are annoying the hell out of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

I've been told many times I must like drama, but I don't see it that way. I just have high standards & need someone to be 100 percent loyal to me at all times. The thought of someone betraying or hurting me terrifies me, the feeling it would create that I must not be good enough
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent

You like drama. If you had high standards, you'd walk away from men who don't meet those standards


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I've been told many times I must like drama, but I don't see it that way. I just have high standards & need someone to be 100 percent loyal to me at all times. The thought of someone betraying or hurting me terrifies me, the feeling it would create that I must not be good enough


100 percent loyal to you at all times is the basis of a relationship. That's not really high standards.

If you had high standards you would have dropped this guy a long time ago. 

A guy dates you and has sex but will hardly have any contact with you outside of that. Will not txt you during the day. He won't say he loves you.

Then miraculously he says he does not want sex any more.
Still will not say he loves you but makes passive aggressive comments about "do my actions show love"?
He will not live with you, but you sleep at his place very night.

He continues to say that he will not marry you.

There are no high standards there. IT's you hanging on to crumbs.


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## Roses919191

He never said he wouldn't marry me. Quite the opposite, that he used to not want to get married until later in life but "I've changed that because of you." And since when is not having sex, and not officially living together, due to religious values & upbringing, bad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> He never said he wouldn't marry me. Quite the opposite, that he used to not want to get married until later in life but "I've changed that because of you." And since when is not having sex, and not officially living together, due to religious values & upbringing, bad?


It's hypocritical.

He won't live with your but you are basically living with him. 

I don't get it. You think everything is wonderful I guess. So why are you here complaining and asking these questions?

Where is that you are supposed to be living? do you have your own apartment? Do you live with your parents?


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## Roses919191

Have my own apt. Even if I go there to nap while he's at work, he says "no why don't you just nap at my place?" Even without sex or anything. And talks about "our grocery list, what we're cooking for dinner." I'd be more concerned if we weren't having sex for religious reasos but also he didn't want to hang out with me every day and wanted me to stay at my place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Have my own apt. Even if I go there to nap while he's at work, he says "no why don't you just nap at my place?" Even without sex or anything. And talks about "our grocery list, what we're cooking for dinner." I'd be more concerned if we weren't having sex for religious reasos but also he didn't want to hang out with me every day and wanted me to stay at my place.


I don't know what you want here. But I do know that you do not want any of the insight and advise anyone here has given you.


----------



## turnera

Roses919191 said:


> I've been told many times I must like drama, but I don't see it that way. I just have high standards & need someone to be 100 percent loyal to me at all times. The thought of someone betraying or hurting me terrifies me, the feeling it would create that I must not be good enough
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You realize, right, that this is a huge symptom of your OWN problems, right?


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## NotLikeYou

Roses919191 said:


> Have my own apt. Even if I go there to nap while he's at work, he says "no why don't you just nap at my place?" Even without sex or anything. And talks about "our grocery list, what we're cooking for dinner." I'd be more concerned if we weren't having sex for religious reasons but also he didn't want to hang out with me every day and wanted me to stay at my place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Roses9191919191- I haven't replied to your thread previously, because everyone else is stringing you along, and I figured one of them would cave and give you the answer you are seeking.

But I can tell that you are in anguish about this beefcake you want to fall in love with you. And nobody else has given you the solution, even though they all know it.

Pancakes.

You must learn to cook him really good pancakes.

Once, I was just like your boyfriend. I really liked my partner a lot. We dated for weeks, and everything was wonderful, but I could just never bring myself to look this wonderful person in the eyes and say those magic words.

I won't lie. Something was missing, and I knew it. And my partner knew it too. I could see the longing, the sadness there. Almost every day, as I prepared to leave for work, my partner was there, sobbing, hanging on to my leg for dear life, rubbing snot on my socks, crying to me

"Oh, NotLikeYou, why, oh why, can't you tell me that you love me? Or at least call me by my real name?"

Things got so bad that many days I ended up leaving the mansion with no pants on, that being the only way to extricate myself from my insecure lover's grubby paws.

Clearly, the relationship had problems. I couldn't express my devotion clearly, using short sentences and small words.

Things came to a head as they usually do. I was on my unicycle, pedaling furiously along trying to get to work on time. I had left my pants behind, of course, and was wearing my red satin boxers.

I didn't know that my partner had called the police. I didn't know that they would pull me over to try and arrest me. And I certainly didn't know that I would be passing by an International House of Pancakes when it happened.

All I knew was that, suddenly, I was hungry. So hungry.

Hungry for pancakes.

I think you can figure out the rest.

Now go learn to cook your man pancakes that are truly AWESOME.

And true love will be yours.

Really.

And shame on everybody else. Every single one of you know that pancakes is the answer, and none of you would fess up.


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## clipclop2

Such nonsense.

Your standards are shifting sand. Your definitions change to suit you. There is nothing consistent about you except your willingness to change your views to fit what you want the situation to mean

Did you take any laboratory science in school?


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## EleGirl

NotLikeYou said:


> Pancakes.
> 
> Really.


Really??? Pancakes. Really???

Every one knows that the answer is 42.


----------



## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> I've been told many times I must like drama, but I don't see it that way. I just have high standards & need someone to be 100 percent loyal to me at all times. The thought of someone betraying or hurting me terrifies me, the feeling it would create that I must not be good enough
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sounds to me like you have attachment issues, abandonment issues, and intimacy issues. If you won't see a counselor to help you recognize the root of those issues, help you find patterns in your choices and your behavior and ultimately change those choices and patterns, you will remain stuck in your neediness, fear, and low self-esteem. This will follow you into every relationship you ever have unless you deal with it.

At the very least, do some reading on intimacy issues, abandonment issues, and attachment issues. Learn about yourself, and how you can address those issues instead of wallowing in them to the point of agony, and then shrugging them off with "I just have high standards."


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## turnera

I've asked her repeatedly to go to therapy and she doesn't understand why she should.


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## clipclop2

If you look back on other threads and had gotten the same advice and lay diagnosis before. 

Where is her mum? Why isn't she talking to her mother about this stuff? 

Some maternal smacks about the head might do the trick. Cut the crap. Grow up. And if you are really that thick then perhaps you should move home and we can at least avoid the insane ideas about what sleeping together with our without sex mean.


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## norajane

turnera said:


> I've asked her repeatedly to go to therapy and she doesn't understand why she should.


Yes, it seems she'd rather blame other people for not behaving exactly the way she wants them to when she wants them to and how she wants them to, instead of examining her own relationship issues and _addressing _them.


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## NotLikeYou

EleGirl said:


> Really??? Pancakes. Really???
> 
> Every one knows that the answer is 42.


Dammit, Elegirl, this isn't a trivial question about Life, the Universe, and Everything.

This is about one woman's undying love and occasional mouth-hugs for the man of her dreams, who is perfect in every way except that he won't say the words she so desperately craves hearing.

And also his unusual religious beliefs about sex on the first date versus seriously committing to a woman who had sex with him on the first date.

And her search for wisdom on the desolate windswept plains of TAM's General Relationship Advice subforum.

And her unflinching determination to ignore every single bit of wisdom given to her by the good folks responding to her posts.

And for that single reason, 

pancakes.


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## clipclop2

There is maple syrup I am assuming.


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## turnera

Honestly, roses, I think you have a good guy there. Hold on to him and see where it goes.


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## Roses919191

Is my guy just depressed? He randomly withdraws. We live apart for religious reasons, but the other day I said "Why did you ask me to move all my clothes back to my new apartment? I thought we were basically living together, except not officially so & not sleeping together due to our religion. If you just want me to stay at my home then why are we even dating? This can't be serious for you." He was like "I want to spend every night with you, at either your place or mine, but I just don't see why your own things wouldn't be kept at your own apt." I just went into something about how I don't think he's serious about me & he should show it. And how I don't want to be living apart in 3 years. He said, "when did I say I don't want to get married?! We haven't even been together 1 year yet!"
Anyhow, since then he just seems so tired & barely talks & his voice is weak & he doesn't do anything with anyone, but if I suggest us doing an activity he always immediately says yes, and he insists he's "ok."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanton68

Roses919191 said:


> Is my guy just depressed? He randomly withdraws. We live apart for religious reasons, but the other day I said "Why did you ask me to move all my clothes back to my new apartment? I thought we were basically living together, except not officially so & not sleeping together due to our religion. If you just want me to stay at my home then why are we even dating? This can't be serious for you." He was like "I want to spend every night with you, at either your place or mine, but I just don't see why your own things wouldn't be kept at your own apt." I just went into something about how I don't think he's serious about me & he should show it. And how I don't want to be living apart in 3 years. He said, "when did I say I don't want to get married?! We haven't even been together 1 year yet!"
> Anyhow, since then he just seems so tired & barely talks & his voice is weak & he doesn't do anything with anyone, but if I suggest us doing an activity he always immediately says yes, and he insists he's "ok."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So no matter what anyone has advised to this point you still can't let go (which is likely what you should do). 

I threw away many years loving someone more than they loved me. I got taken and used even though I knew/know how to play a woman who is interested --> like your man does. 

However I don't prefer the lazy approach that he and so many other lazy dbags use. I honestly hate seeing women falling for it. It's the lowest common denominator of courtship. 

Why don't you start seeing other people? That should wake him up. Just a thought. Like a pebble thrown into the ocean, unlikely to have much of an impact


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Is my guy just depressed? He randomly withdraws. We live apart for religious reasons, but the other day I said "Why did you ask me to move all my clothes back to my new apartment? I thought we were basically living together, except not officially so & not sleeping together due to our religion. If you just want me to stay at my home then why are we even dating? This can't be serious for you." He was like "I want to spend every night with you, at either your place or mine, but I just don't see why your own things wouldn't be kept at your own apt." I just went into something about how I don't think he's serious about me & he should show it. And how I don't want to be living apart in 3 years. He said, "when did I say I don't want to get married?! We haven't even been together 1 year yet!"
> Anyhow, since then he just seems so tired & barely talks & his voice is weak & he doesn't do anything with anyone, but if I suggest us doing an activity he always immediately says yes, and he insists he's "ok."


He wants you to remove your things from his place because he does not want you moving in with him. By moving your stuff to his place slowly you are basically trying to move in without his agreement.

His asking you to get your stuff out of his place makes perfect sense.


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## Roses919191

Well, ok. I get that he doesn't feel right about living with someone while unmarried & dating less than a year. And he can't really be "playing" me when there's no sex to benefit from, and any time I suggest doing anything together he immediately agrees, is never too busy or hanging out w others (unless I'm there too).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent

Why are you asking questions if you already have the answers to those questions?


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## that_girl

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's not into you. He didn't say he loves you because he doesn't love you.
My advice from experience, move on. 

Seriously, is this ok with you? It's not love. You're not his "one".


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## Roses919191

What would make you think that? He said he realized we should stop sleepin together because his brother, who also follows our religion, says abstaining from sex is the best way to build a lasting long term foundation together. He invests a lot of time in me with no sex. He wrote down in a love note that I am "his love" and I'm very close to his heart & signed it "Love,"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

But he hasn't said he loves you.

I sign "Love" to most letters. I am not in love with most of the people I write it to.

I mean, stick it out as long as you want...it's only been 9 months.

I feel though, that you are not one to want to wait around, and I get that. But your original post made me think you were trying to force something that wasn't there. I've been there before. Wasted a lot of my time trying to get certain people to truly love me when I could have been spending time with people who did love me.

You know him better than anyone here. If you feel loved then that's good. But then I don't see the point in your post.


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## Roses919191

Yeah, I'm confused. He's said, "I'm not like most people. I don't do things, like have sex or live together or rush into marriage, just because most people do them." (Also he is not from the USA & wasn't raised in this culture.) He seems like he has a solid head on his shoulders & I see his point that he wouldn't "invest all of his limited free time" in me if he weren't serious about this relationship. I think he may not be like the typical guy 11 months into a relationship but I don't know if that means we can't end up with a good marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2

He wants your stuff out.

That is because when he tells you it is over the only remaining thing that needs to go is you.


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## Roses919191

No, he's still wanting to book a trip away with my friends for Labor Day weekend, going to our religious service together & inviting me out with all his buddies anywhere he goes. He's just seemed so distant & sad since I asked/volunteered to move all my stuff out of his place & make comments like "so do u want me to go home now?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ILoveSparkles

Funny how there is part of a post which stated that your "boyfriend" asked you to move your stuff out of his place.

Now you write in a different post saying that you volunteered to move things out and he is sad.

Which is it??


----------



## Roses919191

Here's what happened. He told me he doesn't feel right living together because of our religion (which totally condemns it & I know he's conservative). I said, well as long as we're not sleeping together (which I also believe is wrong), & I was basically spending every night at his place anyhow. Then I asked him if he wanted me to move all my clothes etc to my new apartment (they were all at his place while I was in process of moving/signing lease). He said he assumed I'd put my stuff in my new apt but that we'd still basically spend every night together at either his or my place. I basically said it's hurtful that he doesn't want to live together even though he tells me over & over that he does want marriage in a few years' time - ad that's what actually matters to me. Now he just seems sad & withdrawn even though he invites me everywhere he goes out & comes everywhere I want him to go. He made comments like "if what I have is not good enough for you well then I'm sorry"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais

Roses919191 said:


> After 8 months I said I loved him and asked whether he felt that way. He didn't say I love u back. Didn't even say something like "those words are a big step but I care so deeply for you." Even though i told him it was super important to me to have feelings verbalized to me even if only once in a while. He hasn't listened.
> 
> He suddenly gives some religious reason why he can't live with me even though he's pushed sex from date 1. But meanwhile it's not like he EVER talks about future, like "I could see us getting engaged within a few years." Sooo... You don't want to live together on its own OR talk about a future involving engagement first? Nothing, no future talk?
> 
> He frequently goes 24+ hours without even returning a single text. I know he can have long tiring work days but still. He can easily go through a whole day/night without even 1 text message to me... Never says anything about how he feels for me, let alone "I love you" back... And got angry at ME when I bring up feeling hurt? I was crying & he actually laid down & fell fast asleep. Sign that he cares?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh boy. Before I married I had a boyfriend exactly like the one you are describing, except for the no sex part. I dated him for 3 years. Like you I asked him, "Do you love me?" Unlike yours, he would grunt, "Yes." He never told me he loved me first. He never talked about the future. He didn't invite me to meet his family when they came to town. He didn't call me when he left for a week to visit his friends and family.

His "yes" kept me hopeful that someday we would get married. (throw up now.)

I WAS AN IDIOT TO STAY WITH HIM. 25 years later he is still not married, he has lived with at least one person, but she left him because she got tired of his inability to commit.

I look back on that relationship and I am embarrassed. He treated me like that because I put up with it. I believe I became codependent trying to win his love. We did not live together, so when he was at his own place, I would never know when I would hear from him next. His long silences made me very insecure and I should have not answered the phone when he when he finally called. He would show up on my doorstep sometimes late at night and I would let him in. 

He gave me just enough crumbs to keep me hopeful and hanging on. I definitely had abandonment issues, which he exacerbated by constantly abandoning me!

Did I already say I WAS AN IDIOT?

Looking back, I am disgusted to admit that I was nothing more to him than his F*ck Buddy before the word even came into existence.

Get your self respect back and kick this user to the curb.


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Here's what happened. He told me he doesn't feel right living together because of our religion (which totally condemns it & I know he's conservative). I said, well as long as we're not sleeping together (which I also believe is wrong), & I was basically spending every night at his place anyhow. Then I asked him if he wanted me to move all my clothes etc to my new apartment (they were all at his place while I was in process of moving/signing lease). He said he assumed I'd put my stuff in my new apt but that we'd still basically spend every night together at either his or my place. I basically said it's hurtful that he doesn't want to live together even though he tells me over & over that he does want marriage in a few years' time - ad that's what actually matters to me. Now he just seems sad & withdrawn even though he invites me everywhere he goes out & comes everywhere I want him to go. He made comments like "if what I have is not good enough for you well then I'm sorry"


You say that your religion condemns living together. I think that what it really condemns is premarital sex, or any sex outside of marriage.
From what you describe you two are living together, even though you have two apartments. You can fool people. You cannot fool God. Having your cloths in one place but your body mostly with him still means that you are living with him.

This game you are playing is mind boggling because it’s senseless.

In the meantime what’s going on with the important things in your life, you know the things that you will take with your for the rest of your life, like your education, your job growth? How about the relationship with your family? They will be in your life long after this guy stops playing around with you.


----------



## Adelais

Stop asking him if he loves you. It makes you sound desperate and not deserving of respect. 

He will tell you on his own if he loves you.

Would you rather him say nothing or lie to you like my loser boyfriend did? Quit asking him that. If he doesn't meet your needs, leave him since you have no committment to him. Quit trying to change him.

You shouldn't beg for love. People who love you will give it freely.

Doesn't your religion teach, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." That means that you are supposed to love yourself. You need to start taking care of yourself and stop sleeping (having sex) at his house and letting him sleep (have sex) at your house.


----------



## devotion

The confusion about living together I understand, my girlfriend and I basically spend every night together but she won't move in till after marriage. Which is a bit annoying because we're wasting MONEY (that will eventually be our money together) -- and I'm just a practical guy. And its the same mindset that is against premarital sex; she got over that (before she met me), but can't get over this. 

But getting back to the original point, 9 months and still can't say I love you .. yeah, at some point you should be doing things FOR the other person. Even if its tough and naturally you don't say it, I would have expected him to say it by now because he DOES love you and wants you to FEEL loved. 

But I and all the other spectators on this thread know what you're going to do anyway...


----------



## Roses919191

He says it took him over 20 years to say "I love you" to his mom, he never said it to an older sibling before they died, he was raised not to express emotion in his culture overseas. But he did write in a card "to my love," and said inside I was very close & special to his heart, and signed it "love,"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais

Roses919191 said:


> He says it took him over 20 years to say "I love you" to his mom, he never said it to an older sibling before they died, he was raised not to express emotion in his culture overseas. But he did write in a card "to my love," and said inside I was very close & special to his heart, and signed it "love,"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's telling you, "That's just the way I am. I'm not going to change, so get over it."

You have to decide if you want to become a mind reader in your marriage. I promise you that you will just become mentally ill trying to guess his thoughts, and filling them in with your own.

This man is making you unhappy. You are not a good match. Let him go so he can marry a woman who doesn't need to hear "I love you."

You go find yourself a man who can give you what you need and tell you himself that he loves you.

You are already unhappy with this man. He isn't meeting your needs. It is no one's fault, you are incompatible. That's why there are 1000,s of other men out there for you to choose from.

LET THIS ONE GO!!! FIND A FISH THAT IS A BETTER MATCH!


----------



## GA HEART

You are craving more emotional display than he can possibly give. I was in a miserable marriage for YEARS with a man like that. And he DID say he loved me and he DID marry me. This guy will not change, even if he married you tomorrow. Let him go. It will be one of the best things you do for yourself. Like others have said, you two are just not a "match." It will hurt, yes, but you will be better off in the long run. Learn to love you, and you will find someone more compatible. I did. If I can, anyone can. Good luck.


----------



## devotion

Seriously, I never said I love you to my mom either but with my ex-wife I said it.. maybe not as often as she'd like, but definitely more than zero. And with my new girlfriend, since its important to her, and I do *feel it* I tell it to her all the time. 

You have to decide on your own if its a deal breaker. I posted a separate thread where I'm a little unhappy about the way my girlfriend talks about our relationship in public. I've told her about it and she understands my concerns and wants to change but hasn't yet. It's a little frustrating but I respect that its hard for her since like your boyfriend she's never been that effusive in public. 

So I give her more time ... and on this particular issue I can probably live with it since she shows me plenty of other ways that she loves me. When I posted my own thread here, several people responded they couldn't deal with someone with my girlfriend's attitude and would break up with someone like her. But its not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Roses919191

Ok. So my bf only says he loves me via writing on special occasions. He did make my bday super special with a lot of planning even though he doesn't celebrate his own, bc he knows it means a lot to me. But even though he seems withdrawn, doesn't talk much, staring at the wall, doesn't want to live together, it's not like he's out with friends being "normal" at the same time. He doesn't do much socially and any time he Hangs out w anyone else he invites me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Honestly, as good as he is to you, he doesn't sound stable.


----------



## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> He says it took him over 20 years to say "I love you" to his mom, he never said it to an older sibling before they died, he was raised not to express emotion in his culture overseas. But he did write in a card "to my love," and said inside I was very close & special to his heart, and signed it "love,"





Roses919191 said:


> Ok. So my bf only says he loves me via writing on special occasions. He did make my bday super special with a lot of planning even though he doesn't celebrate his own, bc he knows it means a lot to me. But even though he seems withdrawn, doesn't talk much, staring at the wall, doesn't want to live together, it's not like he's out with friends being "normal" at the same time. He doesn't do much socially and any time he Hangs out w anyone else he invites me.



What culture is he from?


If you are so happy and he's so wonderful, why are you here complaining?


----------



## clipclop2

Ask him to marry you.

Stop with all the bull.


----------



## Adelais

clipclop2 said:


> Ask him to marry you.
> 
> Stop with all the bull.


If that is what you really want, do it.

However, I believe you would be making a huge mistake, based on your complaints about him. You complaints are not superficial, and they will not got away but get WORSE after you marry.

I married a great guy, I had NO complaints about him. After an EA and 25 years of marriage, I have a lot of complaints about things that never bothered me before. That is what can happen in a marriage when a person is let down. AND YOUR BF IS ALREADY LETTING YOU DOWN. You are going to end up miserable AND OLDER if you stay with him.


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## Roses919191

When I call him, he always answers but sounds sad, is home doing nothing, doesn't "feel like" going out & doing anything. When I make a comment about how I can't be with someone who makes zero effort, he says "do what you have to do."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devotion

The writing is on the wall.. Move on.


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## Roses919191

What writing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

Omg. It's an expression which means, "It's right in your face. All that we're saying isn't just made up. You can't see it but the writing is on the wall."

What culture are you from? Is English your first language? I ask in sincerity. 

Your bf, if he's so good to you, has issues with intimacy, no doubt. But if he's so good and you want to keep defending him, why did you post in the first place?


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## Roses919191

I want to figure out how to make him have emotion and care and love me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

You can't do that. He's not your project or your job to "fix him". This is who he is.

He is grown. He decides who he has emotion and cares about.

My husband is the same as your man. It's a NIGHTMARE. Move on.


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## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> I want to figure out how to make him have emotion and care and love me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't _make _anybody do that. You simply don't have that power. None of us does.

We only truly have control over ourselves and what we choose to do.


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## that_girl

If he was all about you, he'd be ALL ABOUT YOU.

Honestly. Find someone who is ALL ABOUT YOU.

That would be my self talking to my younger self if I could. I wasted too much of my life trying to MAKE people love and care about me.

Screw that. I'm not a therapist and neither are you. If he has issues showing love and care then he has PROBLEMS. Move on.


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## Roses919191

He is so messed up. I mentioned how he was just sitting there staring at the wall for hours, "it's like you're just waiting for me to..." And he cut me off and said "let's get something straight. If I wanted to break up with you I would do it myself. You don't get to tell me." I feel like he has extreme independence issues
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I want to figure out how to make him have emotion and care and love me


What you see is what you get. This is who he is. He's not going to change. You cannot make him change. There is no magic thing that you can do that will magically get him to be who you think you want him to be.


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> *He is so messed up. I mentioned how he was just sitting there staring at the wall for hours*, "it's like you're just waiting for me to..." And he cut me off and said "let's get something straight. If I wanted to break up with you I would do it myself. You don't get to tell me." I feel like he has extreme independence issues


He stares at the wall for hours? Really? A guy how cannot express his emotions? You can do a lot better than this. No wonder you are having a hard time with him.


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## clipclop2

He might be messed up but you are right up there with him.

Get therapy.


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## Roses919191

Yes if I ask him what's wrong and tell him "can you just say something so we can get this conversation over with," he stares at wall for 1 hour, mostly at these photos of his parents, then finally speaks. "Do you want dinner?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Your relationship sounds exhausting.


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Yes if I ask him what's wrong and tell him "can you just say something so we can get this conversation over with," he stares at wall for 1 hour, mostly at these photos of his parents, then finally speaks. "Do you want dinner?"


Sounds creepy


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## PBear

I thought I was done posting here, but I got sucked in again...

Why do you keep trying to change him to meet what YOU think a boyfriend should be? Dating is for finding out who someone is. You're finding out. He's unbalanced. Next!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Rule #1: YOU CANNOT CHANGE SOMEONE ELSE.

It's a lesson in futility.


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## Jellybeans

PBear said:


> I thought I was done posting here, but I got sucked in again...


I know exactly what you mean.

Expect to come back in two months to find the same thing.


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## Roses919191

He's usually expressionless , rarely smiles, asks in a flat tone "how was your day" but never volunteers much personal info, never talks about things that make him happy or excited. The way he is right now, staring at a wall, but agreein to go out & do things when I suggest them- even a whole weekend away with friends , he just says "that is fine" and fully agrees to go but has no interest in looking up the place, getting excited about it or offering input. What is this?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Depression.


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## NotLikeYou

Roses919191 said:


> He's usually expressionless , rarely smiles, asks in a flat tone "how was your day" but never volunteers much personal info, never talks about things that make him happy or excited. The way he is right now, staring at a wall, but agreein to go out & do things when I suggest them- even a whole weekend away with friends , he just says "that is fine" and fully agrees to go but has no interest in looking up the place, getting excited about it or offering input. What is this?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He sounds like he is slowly giving up on the notion that you are going to cook him pancakes.


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## GA HEART

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you enjoy being miserable.


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## Roses919191

He has been this way the entire relationship except maybe occasional bursts of a little more liveliness. His work situation, long story short, is getting a little bad financially and he just seemed more withdrawn ever since that but insists "I'll be fine I just have to deal with it"

Right now all he does is watch movies in the dark. It's not like he's blowing me off for other activities or calling/spending time with anyone else
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

He's either depressed or seriously messed up mentally. Either way, not healthy and WILL NOT GET BETTER.

Why can't you just stop seeing him and go date other people? 99.9% of all men out there are NOT like that.


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## clipclop2

I'm blocking the OP for my own good,


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## devotion

I too have to stop commenting, but I will clarify the 'WALL WRITING' that I see. This guy has issues and doesn't want to confront them for the relationship. My girlfriend also has commitment issues and she has to work through them, but she loves me (And tells me she does, whodathunkit) and makes progress because she wants it to work. At some point if she doesn't figure it out, we'll break up and move on. 

A comment like "Do what you have to do" means he doesn't care and you deserve better than to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Only in the movies is it romantic to 'chase' someone and convince them to love you. In the real world, you should be wanted JUST as much as you want the other side.


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## Jellybeans

GA HEART said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you enjoy being miserable.


:iagree:


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## Roses919191

He has to care enough that he keeps doing whatever I want us to do & wrote my bday card "to my love" & tells me that of course this is serious & he eventually wants to get married & the reason he stopped sleeping with me is his buddy said that's how you build a foundation for a lasting relationship instead of one based on sex, which our religion opposes. He isn't even getting sex from this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

OMG! You get great advice based on what you write but you shoot it down and defend him. Then you come back and complain about the SAME BEHAVIOR you already got advice for.

Stop it. Just go live your life with this person and let things unfold the way it will.


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## PBear

Personally, I think your next suggestion for something to do would be to go get each other's names tattooed. A neck tattoo really shows how much you love someone. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

YES! Or the forehead. That's true love.


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## clipclop2

She changes her interpretation of the facts to whatever mode her brain is in.

I'm sorry but I believe she has real problems and needs help. Abused as a child? Probably. Fear of abandonment? Probably. Definitely afraid to be alone. The kind of denial that keeps asking the same question hoping the answer will change. Unable to discern reality based on the observable and verifiable facts. Wants to hear the words she wants to hear and simply cannot process anything that isn't what she wants to believe.

The only way to fix this is to accept the verifiable evidence and to abandon trying to force him to do and say what she wants because that will bring harmony to her. It will bring peace. Of she can do that she can stay with him and be happy.

To stay in a constant state of turmoil when they aren't married (IOW BSs staying with a WW GI through this trying to salvage a marriage, a relationship of higher value and one that impacts more than just the heart) is irrational. The OP thinks like a child, not a woman.

Something prevented her from maturing.


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## clipclop2

I didn't block her, huh... Can you do that from TAPATALK?


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## Roses919191

If I need something, like my plumbing fixed, he comes right over to help. And he always wants to spend time with me or talk on the phone when I call, he seems 100 percent open but just isn't the initiator. I do think based on the card he wrote "To my love," and his comments about how he wants this to eventually end in marriage & wants to stop sleeping together until then "in order to build the right foundation," that he isn't playing me but rather taking things slow and carefully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devotion

Ugh. I failed the block test too, clipclop2.

OP, Your question was "If this were your BF of 9 months, would you dump him?" and the answer has been a resounding YES. But its your life, your relationship and your decision. All we can say is that life's too short to be settling. My girlfriend is not perfect and there are things I want her to change. She knows about these things and tries to change some for me. It will never be exactly the way I want because that's not her. But as long as she's trying to meet my needs I know she's the right girl for me. 

I wish you luck.


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## that_girl

You keep talking about that card. lmao. Give it a rest. That was ONE card.

Dump him. Don't dump him. But just stop ignoring the people here. If you don't want advice, don't ask for it.


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## Roses919191

That card just seemed like all he was capable of. A guy who planned my entire birthday, doted, was romantic- I think saying "to my love", writing a mushy message, & signing "love" was all he could do.
I just don't know why this guy would be jerking me around, if he didn't ultimately think he wants to marry me. After all, we aren't having sex of any kind. (Both bc of our religion & "so we can build the proper foundation for a lasting relationship" according to him.) any time we discuss the topic he says absolutely he wants to get married & have kids & he wouldn't be with me if he weren't serious about me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2

OCD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33

Look away people, nothing to see here.


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## golfergirl

Roses919191 said:


> That card just seemed like all he was capable of. A guy who planned my entire birthday, doted, was romantic- I think saying "to my love", writing a mushy message, & signing "love" was all he could do.
> I just don't know why this guy would be jerking me around, if he didn't ultimately think he wants to marry me. After all, we aren't having sex of any kind. (Both bc of our religion & "so we can build the proper foundation for a lasting relationship" according to him.) any time we discuss the topic he says absolutely he wants to get married & have kids & he wouldn't be with me if he weren't serious about me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's a keeper. Does he have a brother for me because it sounds exactly like I have dreamed about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel

Made it to page 5, got a headache, and just had to stop. Did OP finally "get it"??


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## Miss Independent

Jasel said:


> Made it to page 5, got a headache, and just had to stop. Did OP finally "get it"??



Nope...


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## Roses919191

Update: now we've been together a year. Still won't say "I love you" even though I say it, just various phrases about "being loved" in the occasional card. If I ask about anything he wants in future, he just gets angry & says "if my timetable doesn't fit yours then you can do what you have to do & break up with me." Note, I never gave him any timetable or ultimatum, & he won't even give me general info like "maybe we can live together this year." He is back to sleeping with me despite "religious beliefs." He did give me a key to his place. But Do you think that's just a way to put off the commitment/living togeter issue? Not to sound cynical but my name still isn't on the lease & in theory he could always change the locks. I know I sound very pessimistic but I just don't want his small temporizing measures to detract from a problem with actual commitment
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Does it matter what any of us say? You just blow off anything we say so why bother?


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## Roses919191

Because I don't trust myself to make good decisions any longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2

You shouldn't be in a relationship if you can't stand on your own two feet.

Seriously. What is wrong with you? Tell us. I think you are OCD but there is more.


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## ariel_angel77

If you want advice, see last 25 pages. You got some great advice in there. It would probably still be the same advice now that people would give you.

To answer your original question, heck yes I would dump him. In a heartbeat.


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## Roses919191

I am horrified that someone would be furious- furious!- at me when I tell him I don't want I stay in this city (which I don't really like) for years on end unless he wants to start a life together. We've been dating for over a year. What's so hard about a simple "Yes I love you (which he's never said) and want a life with you"? Gets furious when I ask him for any discussion of future EVER even vague terms
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2

You are nucking Futz (no offense to the realslim shady).

Seriously.

Do you do drugs? Do you have any real life friends?


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## Roses919191

Why would you say I'm nuts because I want to talk future plans with someone I've been dating over a year?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

What advice can we give you that hasn't been said already?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

Why won't he say he loves me? Why did he give me a key
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

You're pushing this guy too hard and too fast for love, moving in, commitments, etc. He's not ready, and may never be ready, but you have been pushing too hard from the start and it's unrelenting and he's not going to budge just because you keep pushing him. You're needy and desperate and it shows.

At the same time, he's giving you mixed messages, because he likes you enough to want you around, especially now that you've started having sex again. He might even care for you or love you in his own way (but not in your _preferred _way). So he won't break up with you, but he's also not about to commit to you, either. He's not _that _taken with you, and you're not exactly easy to be around with all your pushing for insta-commitment.

Go to a therapist. Work through your issues of neediness and desperation and abandonment and intimacy...you have issues. Get healthy and try again in a new relationship with someone who is also healthy. Unhealthy and dysfunctional people only attract other unhealthy and dysfunctional people.

There. There's your advice. Now you can come back and tell us all but, but, but he wrote love on the card! But, but, but...defend him all you want, but you're the one who is miserable.


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## Roses919191

I don't want to be played for a fool. After a year he's never saidi love you & giving me a key doesn't mean much if he can change te locks & my name isn't on lease. Seems like a move just to keep putting off commitment to me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I don't want to be played for a fool. After a year he's never saidi love you & giving me a key doesn't mean much if he can change te locks & my name isn't on lease. Seems like a move just to keep putting off commitment to me!


:iagree: So why are you staying?


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## Roses919191

I've been hurt so much before (domestic violence ) that I think my ability to suspect if someone loves me is off. So I'm worried I'm mistrusting this guy & doubting his intentions because of my past. I would just think he'd say I love you after a year & maybe put my name on a joint lease instead of just giving me a key... Legally, he can still always kick me out that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> I've been hurt so much before (domestic violence ) that I think my ability to suspect if someone loves me is off. So I'm worried I'm mistrusting this guy & doubting his intentions because of my past. I would just think he'd say I love you after a year & maybe put my name on a joint lease instead of just giving me a key... Legally, he can still always kick me out that way.


I would say that your history of domestic abuse/violence has left you with an inability to see what's really going on and to protect yourself.

You really need to get into counseling so that you can heal from being a victim of domestic violence. Until you do heal, you will never have a good relationship.

Right now you are doing what all victims of abuse do... you are making excuses for him when you should be running for the hills to protect yourself.


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## clipclop2

How do the words change anything? How does a joint lease change anything?

You want the whole ball of wax.

Buy even marriage doesn't protect you from abuse.

So get this straight in your head before you hitch yourself to any man.

If what you really want is safety you are looking for it in the wrong place.


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## Roses919191

He said giving me the key is so I can "come ad go as I please." He tries to sell it as the "first step" but I think it's bull****. Still his place with only his name on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33

Why are you here?


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## happy as a clam

Roses, I NEVER advocate taking medication to escape from one's problems. However, in your case, I think you need to go pop a couple of Xanax and chill out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

My thoughts... (Lord, why am I getting drawn in again?)

Your trying to push your agenda on him. He's not that into you, so he's trying to do the minimum amount to appease you. He's getting enough out of the relationship to keep playing this game. Apparently you are, too.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Get therapy. Figure out why you're willing to endure a relationship where you have to sacrifice things that you say are important to you. Given your background, you really should make sure you're emotionally healthy before investing heavily in a relationship. You NEED to stand up for yourself and whTs important to you, or you'll be doomed to a life of men taking advantage of you. 

Sorry to be harsh. I really do wish you well. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

So people agree giving me a key is only to make me shut up? He referred to it as "the next step." He's never lived with any girl
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I'm not going to give you any more advice until you report that you've started seeing a therapist. I advise others to do the same.


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## Omego

PBear said:


> My thoughts... (Lord, why am I getting drawn in again?)
> 
> Your trying to push your agenda on him. He's not that into you, so he's trying to do the minimum amount to appease you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## COguy

This guy isn't that into you. You're together because it's easier to be with you than break up with you.

Stop settling. Obviously his reaction to you doesn't make you feel good about yourself, so listen to that inner voice and find someone who is enthusiastic about your relationship.

Unless you feel like settling.....


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> So people agree giving me a key is only to make me shut up? He referred to it as "the next step." He's never lived with any girl


Yes.. that's why he gave you the key. To get you to shut up. 

As others have said, he's not all that in to you.

You'd do best to stop trying to force him to do what you want and be who you want. It's never going to happen.

Get into therapy. You really need it.


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## PAgirl

Have you actually asked him "Do you love me?" 

What does he say?

After a year, heck even 6 months, there is something wrong if a guy is not saying those 3 words yet!


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## Roses919191

Yes, I ask and he says "of course I do, don't you feel loved?" Said it took him 25 years to say to his mom, he never said to his dad, & never to any girl he's dated (even one for 3 years). In cards he writes all sorts of variations like "my love" and signs it "love,"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> Yes, I ask and he says "of course I do, don't you feel loved?" Said it took him 25 years to say to his mom, he never said to his dad, & never to any girl he's dated (even one for 3 years). In cards he writes all sorts of variations like "my love" and signs it "love,"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you don't feel loved?


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## Roses919191

Well obviously, in general
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Then you have your answer. 

According to him, he's doing the best he can to show you that he loves you. That he has trouble saying love to even his mother. So this is it - it's who he is and he isn't going to change to be someone that he isn't. 

But his best doesn't make you feel loved. 

And since he isn't suddenly going to change into a whole other person that is easy with expressions of love, and who he is isn't enough for you to feel loved, you are waiting for something that is never going to happen.

Just like you can't stop going on and on about wanting commitment, he can't start going on and on about how much he loves you and wants commitment. Not gonna happen.


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## PAgirl

Sounds like he gave you his honest explanation why he has trouble saying it. So you can either accept it or move on. You cant change him.


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## Roses919191

He finally wrote the words "I love you." I think it's really hard for him to express emotions especially when he's never used that phrase with any girl in his life, but after a year he came around in his own time once he knew it was important to me. It actually means more now than if he'd easily said it after 3 months like it was no big deal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roses919191

Also, he had a key to his place made for me. I never mentioned it or tried to pressure him inflict, he did it all on his own
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Is he affectionate at all? On a daily basis?


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## Roses919191

Yes he is. He is always holding my hand, telling me I'm beautiful without any makeup, cuddling me every night in bed without me even asking (I always had to with an ex),
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Roses919191 said:


> Yes he is. He is always holding my hand, telling me I'm beautiful without any makeup, cuddling me every night in bed without me even asking (I always had to with an ex),


Then why have you been complaining about him?


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## Roses919191

Because he was just more independent & less affectionate, IMO, earlier on. Yes he took a year totell me "I love you" & to offer a key to his place & suggest planning vacation together etc, but I wonder if he just moves slowly & over time builds love. Maybe there's nothing wrong with him taking it all slow as long as he got there eventually. He is so sweet & spends every night with me. Never goes out alone on guys nights & if his friends invite him out I'm always there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

My DD23's boyfriend of 2 months is making plans to get a new apartment - with a friend of his. He has no intention of moving in with DD any time soon. He's being smart and taking it slowly, getting to know her, having plenty of time with his friends while she does the same with hers. The only long-range thing they've done is talk about taking a vacation next summer, and they won't plan that until January, to make sure they're still dating by then. Anyone who marries or moves in with someone sooner than 9-12 months is just asking for bigger heartache if it doesn't work out. What's the rush?


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## norajane

Roses919191 said:


> Because he was just more independent & less affectionate, IMO, earlier on. Yes he took a year totell me "I love you" & to offer a key to his place & suggest planning vacation together etc, but *I wonder if he just moves slowly & over time builds love.* Maybe there's nothing wrong with him taking it all slow as long as he got there eventually. He is so sweet & spends every night with me. Never goes out alone on guys nights & if his friends invite him out I'm always there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Isn't that what a lot of us told you 27 pages ago? That most people take a lot longer than a few months to truly love a person? That you were expecting too much, too soon?


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## Roses919191

Yes & now I wonder if his way was healthy & mine wasn't. Because now I genuinely believe that he loves me & wasn't just rushing to cling onto me or tell me what I wanted to hear just because.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

Yes, I think we also told you that, too. It's not healthy to just glom onto someone. You ought to consider that for yourself - clinging to someone because you have personal issues related to abandonment, or attachment issues, or intimacy issues is not a healthy start to a relationship. You need to be healthy, too, in order to create a healthy relationship. That's where therapy comes into play. Therapy can help you with your issues so you don't feel so needy and desperate for love.


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## turnera

Roses919191 said:


> Yes & now I wonder if his way was healthy & mine wasn't. Because now I genuinely believe that he loves me & wasn't just rushing to cling onto me or tell me what I wanted to hear just because.


Roses, what was the first (and second, and third) thing I have told you since you came here? And that many many others have verified?

That what YOU were expecting was not only not healthy, but _destructive_, to relationships. You simply can't know someone in a month, 6 months, even a year. You need TIME to see them in all their manifestations, in all their bad times, in their stress times, in their periods of change, and yes, even after the 'glow' of a new relationship has worn off and all you have left is mutual respect (or not) - you need to see all that, to see if you truly ARE compatible and right for each other. Rushing to be someone's 'soul mate' is what unhealthy people do. 

I wish you could see DD23's boyfriend. He's the epitome of healthy, laid back, logical, yet loving, free-spirited, funny...and he is in NO hurry whatsoever to 'claim' that they are anything but two people dating. Even my daughter, who's usually very slow to aspire to a level of concreteness in a relationship, moves faster than him. And I'm thrilled to see it, because what they are building is a great relationship, simply because they're taking it slowly so that they don't get so intertwined that the first time they have a fight it's not WWIII to separate their stuff, or move out, or pay back money, or whatever.

Try to remember that you have got plenty of time, ok?


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