# Seriously Confused



## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm having some marriage problems and just not sure what is best path forward. Been together with my wife for 10 years and married 7 (she's 36, I'm 38). We have 3 wonderful kids together. I will say first we are still in love, but we are at a roadblock. About 2 mos. ago I found my wife having a facebook affair. I found it by a series of late night texts (she was sleeping, I was having trouble sleeping and phone is on night stand) she received and I looked at her phone thinking some type of emergency due to late time and repetitve nature. It turned out to be with a guy and she was apparently ending their relationship. I was in shock and to be honest did not read all the texts but he was saying how much he loved her and did not want to see it go, etc... I immediately started looking at phone / computer records and found to the best of my ability that it was only 2-3 weeks and the guy was in another state. In any case, I confronted her and after some initial fighting she came clean and it was over for the day. The next day I check records again and there are more facebook messages (I did not read them, as it turned out she had a secret facebook account and i did not have pw). Then I went ballistic and told her it was over or we are done. In here words she was flirting and it got out of control and they quickly formed some bond in couple of days that was lacking in us. In any case, she ended it and has not talked to this guy since then. 

Since then, she came clean about the second FB account and says she uses as therapy etc... and told me about all the other people on it. It is sort of a philosophy group which is her passion and I respect that and that she can be herself there (we are not religious, but have a lot of religious fam/friends and she believes they will not understand some of the posts/comments she makes). She still did not want to 'friend" me on it as according to her then some of our friends/family will be able to see this side of her through my account. I thought that was reasonable. The real kicker here is that my wife is really confiding in a few guys on this fb account. This is driving me a bit nuts as it is the same exact way the first thing happened. 

As I have read in other places, my wife is going through what I can best describe as mid-life crisis. She is stay at home mom and I make enough to easily support that but she has lost some identity. I respect that and encourage her to do whatever she wants (work, start a business, etc...). I am simply not typically a very jealous guy in the past at least. But, this is driving me nuts. So - fast forward a couple of months. My wife starts acting weird and then said she is going to cancel FB account. I'm like great! This is what I need - basically her to give me some time to heal. Then I log into her email account to get a hotel invoice for a trip to print out (that incidentally she is going on) and see she is bringing the FB guys over from FB to email. This broke something in me after she told me she was quitting. I went and checked here FB account and it's still active and one of the guys who she considers a mentor basically put the move on her because she was flirting with him. I give her credit that she stopped it and did not let it go to bad place and was going to quit, but then she let him reconcile and is actively trying to maintain their "friendship" more than our relationship (ok - this might be jealously, but its how i feel). The guy does seem like he wants to help for most part, but when she "broke up" with him he said meaner things then I ever did (because she told him about the other EA and he was offended that she did it with this guy and not him). Now they are reconciled as 'friends' but I'm worried it's going to turn back into more as again she admitted she had feelings for this guy to him and though she has not directly been sexy with this guy she always tells him how horny she is. 

My wife is very insecure and will admit she likes guy attention and to flirt. I have told her I can understand that and that my insecurity is not the flirting so much as to why she needs to do it. In any case, since the first EA our sex life is worlds better and we are really trying. I'm just so worried she is going to spiral back into something as she spends so much time and emotional energy with this guy online (she says it's a group of friends, but mostly 1 guy). Today we had a bit of a blow out. She knows I don't fully trust her now and in her mind that means I want to totally control her (despite the fact she is going out of town on girls weekend and I am not worried in the least she will cheat on me). My wife is just vulnerable now and my insecurity does not help and I do not want it to end the marriage as they are picking at each other. Even when I try and get a little compromise like giving up FB/these specific guy friends for a little while for me to heal she goes ballistic. 

As noted, today it came to a head and she shut down FB and has a ton of resentment towards me over it. I have apparently not recovered from the first deal, but she seems to believe or at least twists it in her mind that I never trusted her and are somehow afraid of her. I feel a bit pathetic but I don't know a way for me to get over trust issue unless she shows me a little bit of commitment that she is willing to do some things to make marriage work instead of only what she wants. She keeps telling me I want a perfect stepford wife, but I truly don't ... she just won't listen. I am thinking of having some counceling to deal with my trust issues and I think we are going to have some marriage councelling, but I can't tell with her day-day. 

In any case, any advice on how to deal with this issue. Am I blowing out of proportion her online relationship since she did not let the guy have the online sex he wanted but still is actively spending a lot of time with guy she has some feelings for. I get really mixed reviews - half the things I read are - after any breach of trust the other person should help heal it, and the other half are just let her go do what she wants as will do it anyway. I'm just confused as never really had to deal with serious jealousy before. Any help is appreciated.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Paragraphs are your friend. It's much more readable (and you'll get more replies) if you break it down.

C


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks! Did a quick edit and will clean up more. Funny how things spill out

Lou


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## AWorkInProgress (Dec 6, 2012)

Of course she's mad at you...it's a part of her shame reaction in that she places herself in the victim role to avoid the need for her to be accountable for her actions.

She probably voices your boundaries as being controlling. But what she has to realize is that she is being given a choice...

Your boundary is that you do not feel it is honoring or respectful for her to have this personal account (especially when she is engaging in conversation with men). You have EVERY right to tell her that you do not want that in your marriage....
Now she has the option to take care of the relationship and discuss what, if any, type of interaction would be safe within the context of your marriage. Or she could choose to disregard your boundary, but in doing so, she will have to be aware that there are consequences to her decision.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

You are entitled to be angry - how would she feel if it were the other way round?

You are not pathetic, or over reacting - this would raise huge red flags for me. She has feelings for this guy online? this is not right.

"she tells him how horny she is" - WTF?

This is your wife. If the boot were on the other foot would she tolerate this from you?


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks for the replys. I wish I could get my wife to read something. She says she is working on herself and her issues, which she is to a large degree with some of the people and even the "favorite" guy. However, I can't see her staying in reasonable boundaries with somebody she's "connecting" with. She is starting to down play the first EA (i.e "it was only a week!"). Her guilt is considerable and she is trying to understand why she did what she did - I just dont think FB is the most appropriate way. I even asked her why is it always guys? Why can't you confide in a girl and her answer is the guys she are mostly working with are more intellectua where the girls are emotional. I have my own opinions on this but cant be sure. Any attempt I have made to get her to do something about the issue outside of FB "therapy" is confronted with hostility - why can't I just let her be herself, etc... If I tried to get her to read the book mentioned I think she would simply tell me I am continuing to rub it in her face. Very frustrating. 

I know we can make it through this, though I am mentally preparing myself if not. I said something I terribly regret in fight today over cancelling fb where she's railing against my insecurity - she is going out of town and it just slipped out sacrastically - "Why don't you just stay there". I know that was a very juvenile thing to say and obviously didn't meant it, but of course can't take that one back and she is focusing on it All that being said, we do have more good times than bad except for last couple of days. I will check out the Coping section and appreciate the replys so far


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## [email protected] (Apr 5, 2013)

Ugh. It's hard having conversations like this where you know your partner is going to get defensive. It sounds like there are some significant communication and trust issues here, as she's been having a separate "secret" life where she is sharing her deepest, most emotionally intimate thoughts with others. The fact that she hid this from you is really concerning. The fact that she's getting defensive about it is too, but not surprising. 

You might want to try writing her a letter telling her what this has done/is doing to you emotionally. I wouldn't go on the attack, I would focus on the "I" messages. "I feel hurt" and "I feel devastated when you_____." 

Just thoughts. Pulling for you, man.

Jody


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

AlterEgo said:


> She says she is working on herself and her issues, which she is to a large degree with some of the people and even the "favorite" guy. However, I can't see her staying in reasonable boundaries with somebody she's "connecting" with.
> 
> Any attempt I have made to get her to do something about the issue outside of FB "therapy" is confronted with hostility - why can't I just let her be herself, etc... If I tried to get her to read the book mentioned I think she would simply tell me I am continuing to rub it in her face. Very frustrating.


Wow. I read the entire thread, and what came to mind for me, as a woman, is "Why is this guy letting his wife pull this b.s.???"

The FB "therapy" and comments that she is "working on herself" is nothing more than blowing smoke up your wazoo. This nonsense is completely unacceptable. My initial "wow" was triggered by my wondering why you aren't getting totally p.o.'d and laying down the law.

She sounds like a cake eater to me. As her husband, you have every right to tell her how it's going to be. Total transparency. PW's for ALL accounts. She's basically rubbing it in your face with this nonsense about going to her FB buddies to work on her issues.

Hey, she ain't married to her FB friends; she is married to YOU. Time for a serious 180. I'm sure you'll get some rather blunt responses from the men here that it is time for you to take back the reigns and put the kibosh on this crap. Seriously. You are being waaaayyyyyy too passive. She doesn't want IC and MC? Tough. Tell her you guys are going to MC.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Make clear that you don't trust her right now. Her actions don't support that trust and she needs to work to gain it back.

Also, see is you can get her to read the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. May be helpful to both of you.


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> Wow. I read the entire thread, and what came to mind for me, as a woman, is "Why is this guy letting his wife pull this b.s.???"
> 
> The FB "therapy" and comments that she is "working on herself" is nothing more than blowing smoke up your wazoo. This nonsense is completely unacceptable. My initial "wow" was triggered by my wondering why you aren't getting totally p.o.'d and laying down the law.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I do have all of her FB and email accounts now, probably why she finally decided to shut down after I had the final confrontation. I have not told her directly I read anything yet though she can definitely tell. She has a lot of bitterness that I am "spying" on her. I definitely appreciate any blunt feedback one way or the other.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

AlterEgo said:


> She has a lot of bitterness that I am "spying" on her.


Well, she can be as bitter as she wants, but you wouldn't be spying on her in the first place if she wasn't having online EA's.

The thing that is a huge red flag to me is the fact that she doesn't sound particularly contrite about her behavior. In fact, she's turning the tables to make you out to be the bad guy.

It doesn't sound like she takes her marriage that seriously. Sounds more like someone who is a single gal who enjoys flirting with men.

This situation doesn't sound good. Not good at all.

Have you considered giving her an ultimatum?


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> Well, she can be as bitter as she wants, but you wouldn't be spying on her in the first place if she wasn't having online EA's.
> 
> The thing that is a huge red flag to me is the fact that she doesn't sound particularly contrite about her behavior. In fact, she's turning the tables to make you out to be the bad guy.
> 
> ...


I did not yet, but am considering it. According to our "discussion" today she was done though time will tell. She said she is terrified of me leaving her, but she is also not showing me any type of real progress. Apparently, she wants me to become more accepting of her behaviour as she does not see a whole lot wrong with it (actually, she does recognize her "bad" side but seems to not want to admit its bad to really confront her shame) and may be willing to give up a lot based on that. What I am thinking is if she does not take this seriously I will be as clear as possible on boundaries and reprecussions. Truthfully,I have tried to not look like a wimp here which makes me feel worse as I do not like being insecure in her eyes which I thought would only make it worse.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

AlterEgo said:


> Thanks for the replys. I wish I could get my wife to read something. She says she is working on herself and her issues, which she is to a large degree with some of the people and even the "favorite" guy.


My response to this would be, "Great! I'm happy to support you in whatever way you'd like. But I also expect you to support our marriage by working on your issues in marriage-friendly ways."


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

AlterEgo said:


> As already recommended the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass is a must read for your wife. She clearly has different boundaries than you do, and the two of you need to discuss and agree on boundaries with members of the opposite sex in particular.I wish I could get my wife to read something. Insist that she read it as part of her "working on herself".She says she is working on herself and her issues, Is she in counseling? A counselor is the only person outside the marriage she should be "confiding" in. Confiding in others (especially members of the opposite sex) is undermining the marriage. which she is to a large degree with some of the people and even the "favorite" guy. She needs to go No Contact with these enablers. However, I can't see her staying in reasonable boundaries with somebody she's "connecting" with. Exactly, very wise of you. She is starting to down play the first EA (i.e "it was only a week!"). This is called "rugsweeping",you can google it. Don't let her get away with it.Her guilt is considerable Is she truly remorseful, or is she manipulating you? Does she truly feel guilty about the behavior OR that she was caught? And caught multiple times? And she lied to you....and she is trying to understand why she did what she did - I just dont think FB is the most appropriate way. I even asked her why is it always guys? Why can't you confide in a girl and her answer is the guys she are mostly working with are more intellectua where the girls are emotional. This is just bullsnot. She admitted to you that she likes the male attention. She is sending signals that she is open to an EA. Advise her to seek a male counselor then. I have my own opinions on this but cant be sure. Any attempt I have made to get her to do something about the issue outside of FB "therapy" is confronted with hostility - why can't I just let her be herself, etc... The fact that she is getting defensive is a Big Red Flag! You are trying to protect your marriage and she calls it controlling. Another Red Flag. If I tried to get her to read the book mentioned I think she would simply tell me I am continuing to rub it in her face. This doesn't sound remorseful, it doesn't sound like she is willing to work on her issues.Very frustrating. Understandable.
> 
> I know we can make it through this, It takes two people to fix a marriage, you can't do it alone. though I am mentally preparing myself if not. Sometimes, you must be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save it.


 I am going to recommend that you read as much of the "Coping with Infidelity" forum that you can handle. That's where you and your wife are headed.....you will soon recognize her words ....they are right out of the "cheaters script". Educate yourself so you are prepared for what's coming. 

Also, a Girls Weekend away at this point....unless she is going with your mother, her mother, and maybe an aunt or two this is a really bad idea. There are several threads about where wife + GNO'S = unfaithful cheating wife. 

Final note, Privacy in marriage = Secrecy. There's no room for privacy in a marriage, other than in the bathroom. She has proven she can't be trusted, she has to work to earn your trust back.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

If she wants to work on her issues, she should be talking to you or a therapist. Did she really think you would fall for that story?


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

scatty said:


> If she wants to work on her issues, she should be talking to you or a therapist. Did she really think you would fall for that story?


I guess I did for a while. Guess I was in some sort of denial. However, I am done with that.


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

I ordered the Not Just Friends book. I plan on reading it and will do my best to get spouse to do the same.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

A-Ego, believe me, I really feel for ya. Honestly. You sound like a good guy. The problem might be that you are TOO nice.

Your wife is not taking this issue seriously. There are times when a spouse has to give an either-or ultimatum. Perhaps you are afraid she'll walk if you tell her it's marriage counseling, individual counseling, and no more of this online nonsense.

It's your call. It's your marriage. As a woman, I will tell you that I truly respect a man who doesn't tolerate this type of nonsense. I'm not saying I don't respect you ... I don't even know you. But I know what women respect. And they respect a man who knows when to tell his wife to cut the crap and own up to her screw-up's.

I'm married to a man who let his ex-wife have an EA with her former boss. He just kinda rolled over and took it. His idea of her coming clean? "She told me all they ever did was hold hands." WTF????? A married woman, strolling on a beach, hand-in-hand with a man other than her husband. I told my husband he should be inducted into the Wimps Hall of Fame. No, I do not respect my husband. He tries to sell me on this b.s. that he's an "enlightened" man who believes in equal rights for women. Great. Fine. But equal rights doesn't include a wife playing slap-and-tickle-holding-hands-whispering-secrets (even if it's only online) with another guy.


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Prodigal - Thanks for frankness. I am thinking on the ultimatum a and how to go about it very seriously. Kids really complicate it for me so taking time to weigh pros & cons of what I can/cannot live with to keep family together in case she decides to take off. I don't want that to happen as still really love her, but it's a possibility I need to come to terms with myself and kids in mind.

Lou


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I hope you find a good way to communicate it. It's sometimes difficult, but if you do it in a way that shows you are fully committed, it can work. 

That's why what I said before about "I support you in working on your issues in a marriage-friendly way" is a good start, rather than "I'm telling you what you have to do or I'm outta here!" 

Even though you *should* make it clear that you will leave if she doesn't get on the marriage train and remember her vows, I'd encourage you to do it in a way that makes it sound like it's her choice, not yours, but that if she continues to pursue these activities that aren't supporting your marriage, you'll have no choice but to believe that it means she has checked out, which is enough for you to put an end to things instead of waiting for the inevitable.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Alter Ego, I read through your thread and thought to myself was it possible to believe that her FB usage is on the level? I think it is...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AlterEgo said:


> Prodigal - Thanks for frankness. I am thinking on the ultimatum a and how to go about it very seriously. Kids really complicate it for me so taking time to weigh pros & cons of what I can/cannot live with to keep family together in case she decides to take off. I don't want that to happen as still really love her, but it's a possibility I need to come to terms with myself and kids in mind.
> 
> Lou


Since you brought up her taking off... you need to look into your rights if this happens. A visit with an attorney might be a good idea. many will give a half hour to one hour free consultation.

Whatever you do, do not move out of the home your children live in if she starts demanding that you do. Do not allow her to remove your children from the family home. Right now she can as there is no court order. So if she starts talking about doing this, see an attorney to get an order that the children must live in the family home.

One thing you might want to do is to tell your wife that you support her desire to be more inpendent. So perhaps it's time for her to get a job and for her to start contributing to paying the bills, etc. Many times spouses who do not work lose perspective on what it's like in this world. A reality check might help her quite a bit at this point.


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## AlterEgo (Apr 5, 2013)

Well, I did not sleep last night and did the ultimatum this morning. In a nutshell, I used a lot of the advice here telling her while I understand her desire for therapy it needs to be friendly to our marriage and I am deeply hurt by her actions. I let it open that she can come to me or go to therapist or we can go to marriage therapist together (but I did not demand it - mistake?). She needs to cut it with the "favorite" guy immediately and no more therapy from anybody else other than therapist. I told her I want to see the "break up" letter with the guy. I told her my boundaries of dealing with other men clearly (with examples) and will follow this up with the book Not Just Friends. I told her I will no longer be a scapegoat for her selfishness. I told her that if she does not do these things then I am going to file for divorce.

So..her reaction. She says she agrees with me and wants to stay in our marriage. She did not freak out or get super defensive which is totally different then previous discussions. She said she is humiliated and just wants us to be healthy again. She did try and rationalize the relationship with the 'favorite' guy that she did not intend it and he took it to bad place, but I told her it did not matter it happened that way because she let it and encouraged it whether intentional or not which led to boundaries discussion. She told me no more fb or similar relationships outside of our marriage.

She asked me if I am wanting a divorce now and I said, no that is the last thing I want, but I am tired of pain and made my peace that I will go there immediately if no changes and any similar stuff resurfaces. I can tell this will be a long road. I hope her humiliation and pain does not cause her to rebel as it has been doing recently. I hope she will take initiative to get real help. I can tell she really struggles with not being able to be how she wants with people and not have negative consequences. I don't know the answer to that problem other than grow up and it worries me still.

Thanks to all for the great support, candor, and advice. I will continue my self improvement and am still open to advice on what to do next now that it is out there.

-AE


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