# Relationship Advice You Wished Someone Gave You



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

If you could go back in time and give your eighteen-year-old self a couple bits of relationship advice, what would they be? 

Mine would be:

1) Relationship problems don't get better when you're married (marriage is _NOT _a solution to a problem - no matter what the problem may be).

and

2) The maxim "no good deed goes unpunished" applies twice as much when you're dealing with someone who's selfish / insecure / damaged / malicious, or otherwise disordered.

of course eighteen-year-old me would just be like "_Yeah, yeah, yeah... Hey are you 21? Can you buy us beer? You can keep the change._"


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

> _Never play cards with a man called Doc.
> 
> Never eat at a place called Mom’s.
> 
> Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own._


- from A Walk on the Wild Side, by Nelson Algren


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Make sure you marry a man who is a strong Christian and who has integrity.
Dont ignore red flags.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

_You cannot fix crazy.

You cannot make someone else happy. They must choose happiness for themselves.

If anyone ever puts you in the position of choosing between them or your own self-respect, pick you. Every. Time. _


These are all things I've discussed many times with my, now 20 year old, son.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

When you are 21 there will be a day when you think you should break your engagement. Don't think twice just do it. You will be richer. You will have more time. You will not be any lonelier than you would be married. Invest in your hobbies instead of relationships. And, if you can . . . keep the weight down.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Keep going you’re doing just fine.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Look for a partner, not a project. 

You are responsible for your own happiness. 

Don't be afraid to take chances in life.


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

You're never going to "earn" love.

Being alone is better than being just a paycheck. 

If someone has to pressure you to "take the next step", don't. 

If someone uses sex and affection to manipulate you or to try to change your personality, that's not love or a relationship you should maintain. 

Women's or a particular woman's opinion does not define your actual worth. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The same advice I give to people today. Prioritize. Most people these days seem to prioritize for the best looking partner they can get, and then just hope or expect that person to be good in other ways. Then they wonder why the person they married or dated for a long time was just a POS. Well, you weren't looking for someone great, you were just concerned about great looking. So, prioritize for a better person before anything else.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

no relationship is ever 50/50...the person how has more invested in a relationship has more to lose, the other how more power to move on and feel less....and any time in your life line of that relationship you could be one or the other. 

Never expect your partner to provide your happiness, that is all on you to uncover.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Don't make someone a priority if they only make you an option. When interested in someone, don't give if they're not giving back or you'll just end up with a taker. If you want more, you have to require more. The old Dr. Phil quote, You teach people how to treat you.

Don't waste a bunch of time trying to make someone interested in you. A lot of it comes down to attraction, and if it's not there initially, it's unlikely ever to really happen. I do think it pays off if you can get to know someone, but if they're not at least showing some interest, it's a waste of time. 

If it's not working, it's not working. Stop struggling to fix it or understand why. They know something you don't, just like you know some reason you aren't into some guy who is really into you. They know themselves. 

One thing I had to learn the hard way is if you're focused on someone and for any reason it's not happening, at least keep being social and meeting new people. I was always so focused on certain guys I was blind to others, but I had to learn to keep it moving for my own mental wellbeing.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Don't marry anyone when you're only 21. Don't be an idiot just because she'll have sex with you. Finish college and get a good job, see the world first.


----------



## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Being married and not having your emotional needs met is much more lonely than being single and alone.

If it's bad, don't try to fix your sex life. Find a different partner.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife" - Trini Lopez


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Don't let guilt decide the direction of your life....Sometimes you gotta be the bad guy...Sometimes you need to crush someone's dream so that you don't waste precious years of your life...In the end, you will be doing them a favor, because the reality is that they may not believe it at the time they are getting dropped on their head, you are in fact doing them an enormous favor....


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

"Women, you can't live with them, you can't live without them."

Though I guess I did hear that, and it isn't really advice so much as a lament.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

We both received very good lived examples of marital boundaries growing up. My dad went so far as to talk to me about how to best hire a secretary when the time comes, that I will be subconsciously drawn to a young, pretty thing and to fight that bias and purposely seek out an older woman, she has more experience and your interactions with her will be all-work focused. Safer for the marriage that way. My wife's mother talked to her about her different styles of dressing in regard to the audience of people she was going to be with.

What we could have used though was a focused talk on the appeal that others can pose and how giving into that appeal can create a slippery slope of a transferal of feelings. We had to learn that by seeing others and figuring it out ourselves. A relationship should come to an end because of what is happening between the two of you, not because someone else came along.

Dad told me that every day when you wake up, you have to carry a burden. You have to learn something new today, you have to meet your teacher's, your boss's, expectations, you have to satisfy your wife and children. There is no crossing the finish line and coasting. Yeah OK, but I could have really benefited from specific relationship activities which work to keep the wife happy and engaged. Do A and B and C, etc. He was kind of red pill for his time, but still culturally programmed to be blue pill. So his learned behavior was to take my mom out to dinner, bring her flowers, but I never knew him to affect a demeanor, he was a natural alpha so he never thought about how his behavior influenced his wife. This meant I had to figure out woman on my own.


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

If I could go back to being 18 again and retain the things I know today, my life would certainly be different. I could probably write a book on relationship advice that I wish I had known at 18. When I read, "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" my first thought was how I had wish I had read that book at 18. It would have certainly made things different by avoiding a lot of mistakes that I made.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> When you are 21 there will be a day when you think you should break your engagement. Don't think twice just do it. You will be richer. You will have more time. You will not be any lonelier than you would be married. Invest in your hobbies instead of relationships. And, if you can . . . keep the weight down.


This would have prevented my first divorce. No one should get married under 25, huge mistake!


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

I wish someone told me, marry someone of a similar educational level and family of origin lifestyle and values. Don't believe someone who claims to want better, they revert.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> This would have prevented my first divorce. No one should get married under 25, huge mistake!


Yeah. The part of your brain that can foresee consequences isn't even developed until around age 25 and now they're saying even after. But that's why young people do jump into things. 

My attitude towards young people and romance is enjoy it all you want. Just don't get pregnant. Once you do that there's no remedy for where your life is going. 

And it's true that a whole lot of people who marry young by the time they're in their mid-twenties and their brain is fully developed, they feel they missed out on exploring and are ready to do it, plus they're in a more mature place to pick a lifetime partner because you're changing so much when you're young that who you choose when you're young and who you choose after your mature and have a little experience or two different things a lot of the time. 

A whole lot of guys in my crowd when I was in my mid to late twenties had married their high school sweetheart and were on their own path now and you knew that their marriage is weren't going to last. You could see it. It was like they didn't have anything in common with their wives anymore. They had interests that had become more important than their high school girlfriend. And they all had to move on.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sad to say … I very likely wouldn’t have listened to advice about anything. I was so sure I knew it all in those days.


----------



## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)




----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TomNebraska said:


> If you could go back in time and give your eighteen-year-old self a couple bits of relationship advice, what would they be?
> 
> Mine would be:
> 
> ...


I have to take this in steps as I mostly have regrets about how I treated women.

1) Turn down more women for sex. (I was a bit of a man ho for a while.
2) Give Brenda a second chance.
3) Hold onto the 6'2" amazon. (I dumped her for a belly dancer and she was a truly loving and worthwhile woman)
4) Turn the ex pornstar down. (She was a very hurt young woman and needed a friend more than a lover)
5) After meeting my wife, work harder to establish a future for us, marry her faster and move to Texas instead of Seattle.
6) Devote more time to my family and less to work and ministry.

That about sums it up though I'm sure I would have more to tell my 18 year old self.

I have to say though, that if I made better choices along the way, it would have eliminated other possibilities.

I might have met someone to marry earlier.
It could have worked out with Brenda.
It would have worked with Kayleen (the Amazon).
It might have even worked out with the ex porn star if she had a good friend and time to heal and grow.

After the point where I met Mrs. Conan, I would absolutely go with the advice here and, regardless, I don't regret marrying her for a moment.😉


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> This would have prevented my first divorce. No one should get married under 25, huge mistake!


Oh, not for everyone.😉
My grandmother married my grandfather when she was 16. Lifelong marriage and a love that still inspires me to this day.

I met my wife when I was 20 and asked her to marry me two days later.

She turned me down so I got her pregnant and she had to.😋

We met in 91' and married in 95' so it did take some time.😁


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

TomNebraska said:


> If you could go back in time and give your eighteen-year-old self a couple bits of relationship advice, what would they be?


Focus on the sexual satisfaction of your partner, not yourself. Yours will happen automatically. Work to become a Sex Machine while you can.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This is why it's said that youth is wasted on the young.

My advice would be to run like hell from anyone who can't have a conversation about things that are difficult or unpleasant. The ability to deal with conflict will drive a lot of your relationship, and if you think there is no conflict at all its probably not a healthy relationship. All healthy pairings will have some conflict....just not regularly.

Also be sure to prioritize compatibility. Love can grow out of compatibility... as long as you're at least mildly attracted to someone you can build a lot of you're highly compatible.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is why it's said that youth is wasted on the young.
> 
> My advice would be to run like hell from anyone who can't have a conversation about things that are difficult or unpleasant. The ability to deal with conflict will drive a lot of your relationship, and if you think there is no conflict at all its probably not a healthy relationship. All healthy pairings will have some conflict....just not regularly.
> 
> Also be sure to prioritize compatibility. Love can grow out of compatibility... as long as you're at least mildly attracted to someone you can build a lot of you're highly compatible.


Oooh. This is good!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TomNebraska said:


> If you could go back in time and give your eighteen-year-old self a couple bits of relationship advice, what would they be?


Not everything can/should be fixed - sometimes the solution is the door


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Sad to say … I very likely wouldn’t have listened to advice about anything. I was so sure I knew it all in those days.


That's the universal truth, isn't it? For the most part, you have to make your own mistakes. But some well placed advice can stick with you and you may turn to it in times of need. For example, my sister once told me, "You'll stop (obsessing) when you're tired of being miserable." Mulling that over made me realize it really WAS within my power to control what I let my brain dwell on and how much. We have control over ourselves. We're not helpless. We can decide to stop and then use all our skills to work on that.

In the late 1970s I worked with a bunch of people who became friends. One of them I didn't keep up with for a decade or so after though. She married young and had a charming husband I really liked. But I passed on to her one piece of advice my mother gave me, and that was to always chuck some secret money away in case you need it someday in an emergency, even if things are going well. I passed that advice along to my happily married young friend.

20 years later, I reunited with her only to find that her husband had abandoned her and their child. One of the first things she brought up was that I had given her a valuable piece of advice that she was glad she had taken about stashing some money. (Her mother died young so she didn't have the benefit of her mom's advice.)

It took a good while of getting together before I got the story, but her husband had had a couple of head injuries along the way. She didn't believe in doctors at all at the time, so he never saw a doctor. The head injury radically changed his behavior. He started acting out all kinds of ways, ran off to California with some woman and then back and just degenerated until he simply died from incompetence and dereliction. 

My friend didn't understand what happened, why he changed and was devastated and basically way off base on what happened. She didn't understand about brain injuries until I began talking to her and she told me about the brain injuries and I pieced it together. I remember it clearly. We were at the Arboretum sitting on a bench and she began to unravel the story. Then it was like an epiphany. Of course, she was dubious at first, but over time, she did her own research and she was able to be more at peace about it once she realized it wasn't just him being mean but that he was really damaged. 

So advice doesn't always go out the other ear. You remember it when you need it.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Oh, not for everyone.😉
> My grandmother married my grandfather when she was 16. Lifelong marriage and a love that still inspires me to this day.
> 
> I met my wife when I was 20 and asked her to marry me two days later.
> ...


I met my wife when she was a few days old. Our families sailed the Caribbean in December when she 4 and then the next year too, so that was the first time I ever lived with her. She was a brat. Flying completely over the head of us kids was the fact that the parents were testing each other, seeing how well they got along living together on a sailboat. Seems they all decided they clicked, so the grand plan was set in motion. Next year we all spent a year sailing the South Pacific, my mom took a sabbatical, her mom took a leave, the two dads took very extended vacations (each owned their own company) but would fly back home regularly and leave us in some port with the moms who schooled us and took us on adventures, then fly back and we'd head somewhere else. Anyways, that's when wife became the 3rd Musketeer. So from that point until today, I've talked to her, at a minimum at least once a week and for a long period, decades now, every day.

So I too don't buy into this nonsense of young love being disposable and impermanent.

Also, like you, I've wondered about the various roads not taken, not with any longing for them, instead with a feeling like I've been blessed that we managed to avoid many of those choices/roads. I could have been dumped for the skater-dude, the HS quarterback, the frat boy, etc. We could have parted ways for university. Some other women could have tempted me away. Our careers could have split us.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

OnTheRocks said:


>


Never seen a guy who wears a gun that worried about crazy women before.


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

The only thing I'd tell my young self is keep listening to your gut and you'll be fine.

I also married young at 23. It has been one og the best decisions of my life!


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

If a man wears Bugle Boy jeans and most, if not all, of his friends are female...he’s most likely gay.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> If a man wears Bugle Boy jeans and most, if not all, of his friends are female...he’s most likely gay.


Bugle Boy?😆


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Effort reflects interest. Let the man lead, if he doesn’t, he’s not that interested. 

Watch how he acts and treats you when things don’t go his way. It is not a good relationship when life is going great, and he treats you great, this is easy. it’s a good relationship when life gets tough and he is still great to you, and he remains positive.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I'd give myself the same advice I give here - don't marry a (near) virgin until you have had time to determine why they are avoiding sex.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> The only thing I'd tell my young self is keep listening to your gut and you'll be fine.
> 
> I also married young at 23. It has been one og the best decisions of my life!


I married at 23 and never looked back never regretted it. Been 27 years now. The one thing that I feel I did right and would tell any young person. Keep your eyes open learn from your life, know what you want. Don't compromise. Look for qualities, not looks or money or other superficial things that wear off.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You can both love and respect your partner without giving yourself away to them.

Give the red head another chance.

Tell the little brunette good bye before the wreck.

Give SB a better reason

The short little girl you marry will be the best thing you ever did.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> You can both love and respect your partner without giving yourself away to them.
> 
> Give the red head another chance.
> 
> ...


As a short little redhead I approve of this post 😀


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You know that guy you met on spring break? The one you think of as just a good friend? Keep it that way. Don’t think, when things get serious in a couple of years, that he’ll change once you’re married. You’ll be in for decades of learning otherwise. And, by the way, that other guy you almost married? Be very grateful you didn’t. That would have been an even bigger disaster. I think we can agree you don’t pick well. Are you okay with one and done … because I am.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Hold onto the 6'2" amazon. (I dumped her for a belly dancer and she was a truly loving and worthwhile woman)


Dear God, yes. Does this ever "hit home"..... I left a truly loving and worthwhile woman because I had a "prettier" suitor.... "Prettier" was an entitled, screwball disaster. 

I tried for decades to contact "Amazon" and tell her how profoundly sorry I am for hurting her.....and, what a big mistake I made. I was 19 at the time, which doesn't excuse me for the wrong I did her, but others are correct that if I was few years older, I might not have done this. She is now home with the Lord, that is my consolation, and that she seems to have had a good life without me.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Rent....don't buy....


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Rent....don't buy....


Yeah, no need to buy a pig when you want a little sausage. Lots of varieties of sausage available, right? 😆


----------



## hardway (Dec 11, 2020)

TomNebraska said:


> If you could go back in time and give your eighteen-year-old self a couple bits of relationship advice, what would they be?


1) Observe how they handle conflict - especially with you. 
2) Do they have a history of relationships (ex's, old boyfriends, siblings, etc) where they have a pattern of blaming or accusing the other person for . . . whatever?
3) Do they on occasion slip (even momentarily) into a volatile temperament? 
4) Can they admit when they have said something hurtful and seek forgiveness in a heartfelt manner?
5) Can they gracefully agree to disagree? Are they comfortable in "gray" areas? Or are matters either black or white?
6) Watch for passive-aggressive behavior, which can be disguised as a number of seemingly favorable traits. 
7) Intimacy (not just sexual) is a currency.
8) Is the relationship reciprocal? Avoid those who are a bottomless pit of take, take . . . and entitlement.
9) Even the wisest and noblest of men have been deceived by an ill-willed woman. 

I could write a book :-/


----------



## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Haven't read the whole thread, but this is a big one, and not just with intimate relationships:

Can they admit when they are wrong? Can you?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> Focus on the sexual satisfaction of your partner, not yourself. Yours will happen automatically. *Work to become a Sex Machine while you can.*


Lolol!!!! And then ALL your problems and worries will disappear...???


----------



## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Be confident in yourself, do what you want to do! And have strong boundaries.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> Lolol!!!! And then ALL your problems and worries will disappear...???


No, but it makes it real hard to be/stay angry at someone like that 😆


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> No, but it makes it real hard to be/stay angry at someone like that 😆


I know I wouldn't be able to stay angry at a Sex Machine guy...I'd have OTHER "feelings" that would be blocking out the anger...Lol!!!


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> I know I wouldn't be able to stay angry at a Sex Machine guy...I'd have OTHER "feelings" that would be blocking out the anger...Lol!!!


Oh yeah, baby!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Oh yeah, baby!


Lolol!!!! You are AWESOME!!!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It's mostly not a good idea to sleep with sisters in the long run.

Sleeping with a lot of women in apartment complex is ok until one ends up working in the office and gets a key to your apartment.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

hardway said:


> 1) Observe how they handle conflict - especially with you.
> 2) Do they have a history of relationships (ex's, old boyfriends, siblings, etc) where they have a pattern of blaming or accusing the other person for . . . whatever?
> 3) Do they on occasion slip (even momentarily) into a volatile temperament?
> 4) Can they admit when they have said something hurtful and seek forgiveness in a heartfelt manner?
> ...


All this would've helped me not only avoid my XW, but feel good about it! I.e. not wonder "did things not work out because of _ME_?"


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's mostly not a good idea to sleep with sisters in the long run.
> 
> Sleeping with a lot of women in apartment complex is ok until one ends up working in the office and gets a key to your apartment.


Yeah. Sisters......


----------



## rockon (May 18, 2016)

My dad gave me very simple advice on relationships when I was young:

Always trust you gut.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I also married young at 23. It has been one of the best decisions of my life!


I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


----------



## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

I wish someone had told me that having a soft place to land is highly overrated. Seek out the one that will not only let you thrive as who you are, but will offer up forgiveness as quickly as they offer up their bodies on a silver platter. None of us are perfect, and don’t ever forget it. If you do forget, be prepared to sit in your glass houses all by yourselves.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


22 years 3 months. You?


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Cletus said:


> 22 years 3 months. You?


LOL! 22y 10 months! Just a kid...


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> LOL! 22y 10 months! Just a kid...


Barely a minute beyond 21 (and so sure I was all grown up). But that was a much different time and place. I don’t recommend the same for my grandchildren.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Laurentium said:


> I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


i married a red-headed irish step-child at the age of 21. after going on a hand full of dates and knowing her for about three weeks. 

took several years to fall in love lol. dont regret it for a second. 

as for the topic of this thread, i dont really have anything that i wish i was told, but ill leave my great grandfathers wisdom here:

"the secret to a long life and happy marriage is to quit yer *****in', take a shot o whiskey, and figur it the **** out!"
-said at his 76th wedding anniversary, right before he slammed a shot of whiskey on the table and threw it back.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Lolol!!!! And then ALL your problems and worries will disappear...???


I guess I'll never know.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


Are you still married?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> I guess I'll never know.


YES...YOU DO!!!! 

Lol!! Stubborn!!!


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


My wife went to university at 16, her parents insisted she live on her own, in a dorm for at least two years, so she complied. Then she moved in with me at 18, married when she was 21. Why waste the best years of your youth on the people you're going to leave behind you? Never made sense to us. Best decision of our lives too.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> I can beat that, I was 22 when I first got married, and it was indeed the best decision of my life!


Amateur!  

I was 19 years and 3 months old, when I first got married.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Are you still married?


We were married until she died.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

21 years 8 and1/2 months. Mrs. Nail wanted to wait until she was 21. And we both had to finish out of state contracts, and move home. I think I was home 2 months before her. Long separated engagement.


----------



## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

Married at 19 to my wife who was 20. We have been married 53 years, were high school sweethearts. Best decision I ever made. Wish we had married on high school graduation, but my parents were opposed to it that early and wouldn't sign.

Regarding advice, wish I had LISTENED to advice about finances taught by my parents. Saving more and spending less would have made life easier over years.


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Married at 18 years, 6 months. Wife is 10 months older. High School sweethearts. Have been married now for 47 years. Looking back, there were a lot of things that we would have done differently, but marrying each other is not one of them.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

I suppose some people are ready for a lifelong commitment to marriage at 21 (or even 18). Some are not. Some are never ready.

I remember thinking I was ready, but definitely still needed to grow. I look back on all the partying/clubbing I did in my 20's-early 30's, and feel like I really "got that out of my system." 

I had a lot of friends in grad school that are still good friends to this day, but I wouldn't have been able to maintain friendships with them if I was married... too much drunken womanizing went on; I couldn't have been around that & stayed happily married, especially if I hadn't "gotten it out of my system." 

Had I married at 22 or 23, I would've always wondered what else was out there. With the wisdom of hindsight, I can say "not much" and that I'd be happier in the long run with a good wife, through good times and bad. But at 22, I wouldn't have known that yet, and might not have been such a good partner through the bad times.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> We were married until she died.


💜


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> We were married until she died.


I’m sorry that you lost her. 

I hope it’s some comfort for you that you went the distance in your marriage.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

TomNebraska said:


> I suppose some people are ready for a lifelong commitment to marriage at 21 (or even 18). Some are not. Some are never ready.
> 
> I remember thinking I was ready, but definitely still needed to grow. I look back on all the partying/clubbing I did in my 20's-early 30's, and feel like I really "got that out of my system."
> 
> ...


Actually, you could have known that at a young age. Knowledge comes from either personal discovery or from learned wisdom you've adopted for yourself. With learned wisdom you have to decide for yourself whether you will embrace it. Parents tell children - "Don't shoot up heroin!" and most children listen but some grow to be adults and think that they are going to reinvent the wheel here, that they're the special one, that they can control the dragon, and so they shoot up.

"wondering what else is out there" is a culturally taught thought. What? I'm sure we've all heard stories of people who marry as virgins wondering "what am I missing?" What don't you hear though? We don't hear - "I've never had an emotionally draining, knock down, drag out, fight with anyone buy you, what am I missing? We need to divorce so that I can go out and experience with a new person what I've only experienced with you." We don't hear this reasoning because it's not part of our cultural lexicon, but it follows the exact same logical structure as relationship and sex. A long time ago, when sex outside of marriage was really, really, frowned upon, the idea of blowing up a marriage or a relationship because you would be missing out on more sexual experiences was not actually a thing, it wasn't part of our cultural lexicon, and so marriages and relationships were not blown apart in search of that particular plot of greener grass. The only way, back then, to focus on the grass is greener on the other side of the fence was to think in terms of relationships, what if I had married this person instead.

We have the tools to assess the quality of a relationship we're in even when we're teenagers. A boy who is being used KNOWS it, a girls who is treated as a sex object KNOWS it. They know that they're not in a good relationship, they don't need to keep sampling to learn that there is better out there. If they find themselves in an emotionally, sexually, intellectually, spiritually, financially, rewarding relationship, they know what they've got, there's no need to keep sampling. They should lock that relationship down, NOW.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Lance Mannion said:


> Actually, you could have known that at a young age. Knowledge comes from either personal discovery or from learned wisdom you've adopted for yourself. With learned wisdom you have to decide for yourself whether you will embrace it. Parents tell children - "Don't shoot up heroin!" and most children listen but some grow to be adults and think that they are going to reinvent the wheel here, that they're the special one, that they can control the dragon, and so they shoot up.
> 
> "wondering what else is out there" is a culturally taught thought. What? I'm sure we've all heard stories of people who marry as virgins wondering "what am I missing?" What don't you hear though? We don't hear - "I've never had an emotionally draining, knock down, drag out, fight with anyone buy you, what am I missing? We need to divorce so that I can go out and experience with a new person what I've only experienced with you." We don't hear this reasoning because it's not part of our cultural lexicon, but it follows the exact same logical structure as relationship and sex. A long time ago, when sex outside of marriage was really, really, frowned upon, the idea of blowing up a marriage or a relationship because you would be missing out on more sexual experiences was not actually a thing, it wasn't part of our cultural lexicon, and so marriages and relationships were not blown apart in search of that particular plot of greener grass. The only way, back then, to focus on the grass is greener on the other side of the fence was to think in terms of relationships, what if I had married this person instead.
> 
> We have the tools to assess the quality of a relationship we're in even when we're teenagers. A boy who is being used KNOWS it, a girls who is treated as a sex object KNOWS it. They know that they're not in a good relationship, they don't need to keep sampling to learn that there is better out there. If they find themselves in an emotionally, sexually, intellectually, spiritually, financially, rewarding relationship, they know what they've got, there's no need to keep sampling. They should lock that relationship down, NOW.



funny how you talk about how things are different now. 

my great grandparents were known to engage in all kinds of debauchery. my great grandmother used to joke about how many cousins we likely have in europe. she would smile and laugh when she talked about it. she wasnt talking about what my great grandfather did with various women during WW2. she was talking about the stuff she did with him _after_ WW2.

so are things really that different?

when my great grandfather started to go senile, we had to remove the firearms from his house. he had over 100. they were hidden all over the place. behind pictures, in the arm of his chair, under his pillow, etc. he was always within arms reach of a gun no matter where he was in the house. he was naval intelligence during the war, and whatever it was that he did, it scared him for the rest of his life. he worried that someone would come and try to kill him.

his best friend was arthur collins(the radio inventor), so that might have been part of it. he knew a lot of stuff that was considered sensitive back then.

for as much as society shapes us, people are still individuals.


----------



## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Easy - this is more of a law of nature than advice like "happy wife happy life" or "the woman is the prize". I wish I had been given a primer on female nature rather than having to figure it out on my own.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I never even thought of and couldn't imagine being married in my early 20's - then - or now. Didn't until I was 32.


----------



## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

Don't marry the first person who asks you just because you're afraid of ending up alone. Don't settle for someone you don't really want just because you can't have the person you do really want. Don't get married just because you don't want to live at home with your parents anymore. Don't marry someone who thinks his career is more important than yours. Don't marry someone who puts such a huge importance on looks that he actually wants you to be anorexic if that's what it takes to stay at the weight he likes. Oh, and the very first time he loses his temper and smashes a hole in the wall with his bare fist, leave and don't look back.Just because he doesn't hit YOU doesn't mean it's not abuse.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Lance Mannion said:


> This is just trendy nonsense masquerading as sounding deep.
> 
> Next time she has a crying jag, leave, just because her emotional outburst is not directed at you doesn't mean it's not emotional abuse.


I suppose context matters. If you just had the worst day of your life and punched a wall in frustration, maybe it's understandable.

but like punching walls, slamming doors, or breaking things during an argument *with* your spouse carries an implied threat of violence. So I agree with her here. 

That crap shouldn't happen between spouses; if you can't discuss problems or even have a fight with your wife without smashing things and punching holes in the wall, you're an idiot.


----------



## Mezman (Dec 12, 2020)

Advice i wish I'd gotten and been able to accept.

Take the time to be happy with yourself before trying to be happy with someone else.

Don't think just because you think sex is a sacred act, others will view it that way too.

Don't be responsible for others feelings, just your own

Oh and looks are important but don't be afraid to walk away from a beauty. There are many more beautys out there than the one your with, just with more suitable personalities


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

TomNebraska said:


> I suppose context matters. If you just had the worst day of your life and punched a wall in frustration, maybe it's understandable.
> 
> but like punching walls, slamming doors, or breaking things during an argument *with* your spouse carries an implied threat of violence. So I agree with her here.
> 
> That crap shouldn't happen between spouses; if you can't discuss problems or even have a fight with your wife without smashing things and punching holes in the wall, you're an idiot.


My objection was mostly on principle, the principle here being I really don't like "expanding definitions" because then it never stops, there is never an end-point.

For this case, punching walls is bad behavior, but it's not physical abuse, because it's not actually directed at a person, a boundary is being maintained. Shaking your fist at your spouse IS an implied threat, so even if a boundary has not been crossed, it's defensible to claim that this constitutes a form of physical abuse. Again though, how about if he towers over his wife and raises his voice? That's not a direct threat, but she is intimidated. This standard of the "victim" deciding whether a crime, or transgression, has been committed is troublesome. His standing over her is not physical abuse.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> My objection was mostly on principle, the principle here being I really don't like "expanding definitions" because then it never stops, there is never an end-point.
> 
> For this case, punching walls is bad behavior, but it's not physical abuse, because it's not actually directed at a person, a boundary is being maintained. Shaking your fist at your spouse IS an implied threat, so even if a boundary has not been crossed, it's defensible to claim that this constitutes a form of physical abuse. *Again though, how about if he towers over his wife and raises his voice? That's not a direct threat, but she is intimidated. This standard of the "victim" deciding whether a crime, or transgression, has been committed is troublesome. His standing over her is not physical abuse.*


Having experienced this personally, I whole-heartedly DISAGREE with you, and I believe that, as a strong man who cannot possibly know what it feels like to be in that position, you aren't entitled to hold any opinion of how a woman should interpret the intent or threat in that situation. The purpose of a man acting like that with anyone (especially a woman) is INTIMIDATION.

Tell me how you would feel if you were in a cage with an angry gorilla, and he came up to you, towered over you and pounded the wall over your head...YOU would feel THREATENED, I have NO doubt.


----------



## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> This is just trendy nonsense masquerading as sounding deep.
> 
> Next time she has a crying jag, leave, just because her emotional outburst is not directed at you doesn't mean it's not emotional abuse.


So it's not abuse when your spouse punches holes in the wall of your brand new house, throws your Christmas tree out the window two years in a row, throws a couch out the window, smashes the windows on your car because you weren't home when he got home from work - and tells you and your kids after each one that you're lucky he had enough self control to not attack you instead? My brother in law put my sister in law through this for years and every time he would cry and apologize afterwards and she always stayed. Then he did get physically abusive and she was too scared to leave him because he told her if she did he'd claim she was the abusive ones and take the kids away from her. She was damned lucky he finally left her. She ended up so afraid of men she won't even date 10 years post divorce. And since their divorce he's been married twice more and both times it ended due to abuse. So no, I would never recommend getting involved with someone who shows you even once that they are capable of violence, even if it's not against you in the beginning. Because violence escalates. The more you accept the worse it gets.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Having experienced this personally, I whole-heartedly DISAGREE with you, and I believe that, as a strong man who cannot possibly know what it feels like to be in that position, you aren't entitled to hold any opinion of how a woman should interpret the intent or threat in that situation. The purpose of a man acting like that with anyone (especially a woman) is INTIMIDATION.
> 
> Tell me how you would feel if you were in a cage with an angry gorilla, and he came up to you, towered over you and pounded the wall over your head...YOU would feel THREATENED, I have NO doubt.


A crime or transgression cannot be defined subjectively, that's freaking unworkable standard.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> A crime or transgression cannot be defined subjectively, that's freaking unworkable standard.


"Crime"...???
Transgressions are defined subjectively ALL THE TIME!!!


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

21stcenturyfox said:


> So it's not abuse when your spouse punches holes in the wall of your brand new house, throws your Christmas tree out the window two years in a row, throws a couch out the window, smashes the windows on your car because you weren't home when he got home from work - and tells you and your kids after each one that you're lucky he had enough self control to not attack you instead? My brother in law put my sister in law through this for years and every time he would cry and apologize afterwards and she always stayed. Then he did get physically abusive and she was too scared to leave him because he told her if she did he'd claim she was the abusive ones and take the kids away from her. She was damned lucky he finally left her. She ended up so afraid of men she won't even date 10 years post divorce. And since their divorce he's been married twice more and both times it ended due to abuse. So no, I would never recommend getting involved with someone who shows you even once that they are capable of violence, even if it's not against you in the beginning. Because violence escalates. The more you accept the worse it gets.


****ty behavior is not physical abuse. 

Physical abuse = X.
Other bad behavior = Y.

What's going on here is a logical fallacy called Motte and Bailey. I'll illustrate.

Racism is bad. When we think of bad racism we think of lynchings, cross burnings, night riders, firebombing of churches. Bad stuff, bad people. 

Now expand the definition and so one is a racist if one notes the documented fact that group X has a higher than average school failure rates. 

So what's happened here, the awful connotations of the former definition have been extended to the expanded definition but the acts, the definition, have radically changed. 

Those behaviors you're objecting to are bad behaviors, but they're not physical abuse and you shouldn't hijack the connotations attached to physical abuse and apply them to this person committing these bad behaviors.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> ****ty behavior is not physical abuse.
> 
> Physical abuse = X.
> Other bad behavior = Y.
> ...


NO ONE said that it's physical abuse - that's only YOUR assumption that I mean "physical"...in fact, if you read what the poster wrote, you will see that she is implying that something that is NOT physical abuse is still abusive.

It IS still abusive - it's emotional (and maybe) verbal abuse. Those actions are used to silence and bully someone, and intimidate. That constitutes emotional HARM...which equals ABUSE.

_*Abuse*_* is defined as any action that intentionally harms or injures another person. In short, someone who purposefully harms another in any way is committing abuse. *

Again, YOU are WRONG.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

It's quite a complicated business. 



Lance Mannion said:


> My objection was mostly on principle, the principle here being I really don't like "expanding definitions"


There I agree with you. I refer to "abuse" -- I don't put the word "physical" in there. I need always to think carefully about what my definition is. I'm acting as a therapist - that means it's not my job to decide whether the law has been broken; nor can I tell someone what they must do. I'm different from a police officer, a judge, or for that matter a forum commenter. 



> punching walls is bad behavior, but it's not physical abuse


By the legal definition in the UK, it might be assault, and it might (in my opinion) be an implied threat of violence, or not, depending on the context, just like (as you say) shaking one's fist. 



> Shaking your fist at your spouse IS an implied threat, so even if a boundary has not been crossed, it's defensible to claim that this constitutes a form of physical abuse.





> Again though, how about if he towers over his wife and raises his voice? That's not a direct threat, but she is intimidated.


If your point is that it's hard to know where to draw the line, then I agree. It's a logical fallacy to think that a clearly defined line exists somewhere, out there, in nature, if only we could discover what it is. "Towering over" someone is, of course, not an action. If he's taller than her, that can't make it abusive simply to raise his voice. 

So I'm likely to ask the wife, in the wall-punching example, _"how bad would it have to get before you'd take action? What action would you take?"_ I say this to try to prevent her gradually getting nickel-and-dimed into accepting worse and worse behaviour. 



> This standard of the "victim" deciding whether a crime, or transgression, has been committed is troublesome.


That should never be the approach to deciding whether a crime has been committed. 

I'm going to ask the "victim" a lot of questions. _"Does he insist on checking through your phone?" "Does he tell you he'll take the children?"_ I'm looking for patterns of controlling. To be blunt, I don't want one of _my _clients to end up dead. And I'm not automatically believing everything she tells me. I'm likely to say: _If you were to decide to leave, be very careful at that time, because that's usually when they become violent. _I'm trying to plant the seed of an idea. And I remember that the "victim" knows the "abuser" much much better than I do. They may just not have any idea what a normal relationship looks like.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Having experienced this personally, I whole-heartedly DISAGREE with you, and I believe that, as a strong man who cannot possibly know what it feels like to be in that position, you aren't entitled to hold any opinion of how a woman should interpret the intent or threat in that situation. The purpose of a man acting like that with anyone (especially a woman) is INTIMIDATION.
> 
> Tell me how you would feel if you were in a cage with an angry gorilla, and he came up to you, towered over you and pounded the wall over your head...YOU would feel THREATENED, I have NO doubt.


Being a kid in the house around this was absolutely terrifying, and mine was only rarely like that, but it only takes once and the fear sets in.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> It's quite a complicated business.


Indeed it is.



> By the legal definition in the UK, it might be assault, and it might (in my opinion) be an implied threat of violence, or not, depending on the context, just like (as you say) shaking one's fist.


Pathologizing male behavior. We see the same with over-diagnosis of boys for hyperactive behavior. What we don't see is pathologizing female behavior, when the waterworks starts as a form of emotional manipulation. No remarks on that.

It should not be the display of behavior which forms the basis for accusation of assault or abuse, it should be the intent and the target. So much of relationships are wrapped up in boundaries, well, here is another boundary. The man punching that wall is NOT targeting a woman. A boundary is maintained. Now, if he says to the woman "This wall could be your face" then that is a boundary being crossed.

Do some women cry without intent to manipulate the man. Sure they do. Do some men need to vent their anger via physical expression without intent to harm the woman. Sure they do. Do some women cry with the intent of getting their way with a man? Sure they do. Do some men express violence against an inanimate object and then go on to commit violence against a woman? Sure they do. In both cases though the former does not imply the latter.



> "Towering over" someone is, of course, not an action. If he's taller than her, that can't make it abusive simply to raise his voice.


But many women report feeling frightened and intimidated when their angry husband is walking around and then comes to stand right next to them, angry voice directed at her. The standard here is not his intent, it's her feelings.



> I'm going to ask the "victim" a lot of questions. _"Does he insist on checking through your phone?" "Does he tell you he'll take the children?"_ I'm looking for patterns of controlling. To be blunt, I don't want one of _my _clients to end up dead. And I'm not automatically believing everything she tells me. I'm likely to say: _If you were to decide to leave, be very careful at that time, because that's usually when they become violent. _I'm trying to plant the seed of an idea. And I remember that the "victim" knows the "abuser" much much better than I do. They may just not have any idea what a normal relationship looks like.


You don't want your client to end up dead. Of course. But you're treating some behavior as being a high predictor of violence with a low true positive rate. Of those who ended up dead, many were subjected to behavior X. However, of all the instances of behavior X, only a tiny percent ended up dead.

Controlling behavior is a just such a problematic category. If the couple is troubled and the husband has reason to check the phone, then his behavior is not controlling, it's behavior designed to provide an answer.

The advice on leaving is sound, it lays out potential areas of concern.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Important advice on TAM from a moderator: Stop the threadjacks. Please.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> Important advice on TAM from a moderator: Stop the threadjacks. Please.


I know, I know, but it was so interesting. Sorry.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Make sure you marry a man who is a strong Christian and who has integrity.
> Dont ignore red flags.


If you're a Christian man with strong integrity, do not let your guard down and believe that what someone professes to be is who they truly are, regardless of their apparent religious upbringing and views. Do not assume that professed faith relieves the need to properly vet the person you're considering an LTR with.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> Don't let guilt decide the direction of your life....Sometimes you gotta be the bad guy...Sometimes you need to crush someone's dream so that you don't waste precious years of your life...In the end, you will be doing them a favor, because the reality is that they may not believe it at the time they are getting dropped on their head, you are in fact doing them an enormous favor....


Watch out for someone else's ability to manipulate you by using your sense of decency and integrity. Never assume that the degree of openness and honesty that is central to your being is shared by others. If you sense a red flag, if something doesn't quite seem right, you're probably being taken advantage of.


----------



## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

1. Look hard at your partner’s parents and their relationship. This is the model they have for marriage and child-rearing. My partner’s parents are divorced, she was parentified as a child and had a rather challenging childhood. This turned her into a matriarch with avoidant personality disorder who uses our family as a do over for her own childhood. How much did she disclose before we got married... only that her parents were divorced and that was it. 

2. Any sexual trauma will impact your sex life eventually and a lot of women have at least one bad experience. The trauma is often suppressed while dating.

3. A woman’s inner critic and her insecurities are your relationship’s worst enemy.

4. Women care more about what other women think about them then what guys do.

5. Women undergo a series of software updates thru life like Windows (engaged, marriage, kids, grandma, menopause). Sure Windows XP and Windows 10 are Windows but with every update, certain features are added and removed. Some you miss and some you dislike.

6. Most people are not honest about their sexuality while dating. Few people won’t admit sex is a “I could take or leave it”-thing for fear of rejection. There is a lot of “audition sex” out there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

aaarghdub said:


> 6. Most people are not honest about their sexuality while dating. Few people won’t admit sex is a “I could take or leave it”-thing for fear of rejection. There is a lot of “audition sex” out there.


THIS...


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't see most people as being deliberately deceitful about their sexuality.

Maybe more so middle-aged daters, but, for the young and inexperienced, I think it's probably limited self-awareness and just not knowing who we/they are.

Sex with a new partner is new. It's fun and exciting. So, it's not that folks are lying (audition sex) - they're just wrapped up in hormones and enjoying the novelty.

Having said that, I read an article once that estimated about 50% who walk down the aisle _know_ they shouldn't be marrying, but they do it anyway. And I wonder if that's necessarily deceit? I'd guess it's more about fear.

And I think that far more people are disingenuous about their intentions/motivations in order to initally have sex, than they are about their long term desires - which, quite honestly, I don't think most people become aware of until they're actually living through it.



aaarghdub said:


> 6. Most people are not honest about their sexuality while dating. Few people won’t admit sex is a “I could take or leave it”-thing for fear of rejection. There is a lot of “audition sex” out there.


----------



## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Well maybe more like oversold or withheld. 

Nobody is going to admit they have a porn addiction, ED, require hoop jumping before sex, prefer social media to sex, think sex is gross, think it’s crude, triggering or admit sex is not required in a long-term relationship.

I would agree about disingenuousness. If the choice is admit I don’t do blowjobs and I imposed celibacy on my ex or quadrupling my standard of living for me and my kids, I would imagine you’ll see more of the latter. No guy is going to admit he was dumped for having a crippling porn addiction.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

aaarghdub said:


> Well maybe more like oversold or withheld.
> 
> Nobody is going to admit they have a porn addiction, ED, require hoop jumping before sex, prefer social media to sex, think sex is gross, think it’s crude, triggering or admit sex is not required in a long-term relationship.
> 
> I would agree about disingenuousness. If the choice is admit I don’t do blowjobs and I imposed celibacy on my ex or quadrupling my standard of living for me and my kids, I would imagine you’ll see more of the latter. No guy is going to admit he was dumped for having a crippling porn addiction.


If I had a dollar for every time my STBX told me how important he believed sex was for people who were in love, and how important he believed it was to take care of your partner's sexual needs, and how important it was to find ways to be sexual together no matter what the situation...I could pay off our house!!!

He reassured me from the beginning that we were on the same page and that my high sex drive was welcomed and matched by him.

It was ALL a lie -- either to me...or himself. Once his selfishness took over, everything he said, everything I was depending on, disintegrated.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I see what you're saying.

Speaking from my experience, most of the faults I found in my ex-husband, I still view as a lack of awareness - at the time of marriage.

People could've given me all the advice in the world, and I could've grilled him with tons of questions, and I still wouldn't have been any closer to the truth of how our marriage was going to play out.



aaarghdub said:


> Well maybe more like oversold or withheld.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

minimalME said:


> I see what you're saying.
> 
> Speaking from my experience, most of the faults I found in my ex-husband, I still view as a lack of awareness - at the time of marriage.
> 
> People could've given me all the advice in the world, and I could've grilled him with tons of questions, and I still wouldn't have been any closer to the truth of how our marriage was going to play out.


This is my experience, as well.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

aaarghdub said:


> 1. Look hard at your partner’s parents and their relationship. This is the model they have for marriage and child-rearing. My partner’s parents are divorced, she was parentified as a child and had a rather challenging childhood. This turned her into a matriarch with avoidant personality disorder who uses our family as a do over for her own childhood. How much did she disclose before we got married... only that her parents were divorced and that was it.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


My ex, his sister and twin were born from an on the job affair, his parents married after their divorces (yup, 2 families blown up). His mother is a lifelong alcoholic, who once told him his father wanted to abort him and his twin. My parents divorced bc my father did the same thing, so I didn't think I had the right to judge him for his parents sins (my mom never remarried or had another serious rrelationship).

On the surface, they are an upstanding family, his father is at respected doctor, his mother was a nurse (they had an affair on the job).When shtf, they closed ranks around him and lied to my face. Granted, there was a lot going on, but their lack of morality was on full display then, I saw their son for who/what he was and walked away.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

My dad told me this recently.

He and my mom were in college, and she became pregnant, and he suggested an abortion. He said that she burst out crying, and so they got married.

Who knows what the tears were about, but she treated me with contempt until the day she died.

Now that I know this, I find it ironic that the one who wanted to do away with me (for all his faults) has actually been the more loving parent.



TXTrini said:


> ...who once told him his father wanted to abort him and his twin.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

minimalME said:


> My dad told me this recently.
> 
> He and my mom were in college, and she became pregnant, and he suggested an abortion. He said that she burst out crying, and so they got married.
> 
> ...


This is VERY SAD...I hate that your mother made you feel that way...


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I appreciate that. 💙

My worst fear is being like her, but, unfortunately, in many ways I am. So, I have to suck it up and take responsibility. 😬😅😌



LisaDiane said:


> This is VERY SAD...I hate that your mother made you feel that way...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

minimalME said:


> I appreciate that. 💙
> 
> My worst fear is being like her, but unfortunately, in many ways I am. *So, I have to suck it up and take responsibility.* 😬😅😌


That right there makes you the OPPOSITE of her, so take heart!

As far as looking at someone's parent's/family to see what kind of partner they will be, that's NOT ME at all - I am NOTHING like the train-wreck of my mother's relationship style!!! Some of us look at our parent's relationships and see what we DO NOT want, and we become the opposite.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

minimalME said:


> My dad told me this recently.
> 
> He and my mom were in college, and she became pregnant, and he suggested an abortion. He said that she burst out crying, and so they got married.
> 
> ...


Im sorry you lived through that, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You parents were very young, so I get that fear of having a baby before you're ready. It's so sad she allowed that to taint your relationship. _hugs_


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you. 💙 



TXTrini said:


> Im sorry you lived through that, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You parents were very young, so I get that fear of having a baby before you're ready. It's so sad she allowed that to taint your relationship. _hugs_


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you feel abandoned or scapegoated during all this? 



TXTrini said:


> *When shtf, they closed ranks around him* and lied to my face. Granted, there was a lot going on, but their lack of morality was on full display then, I saw their son for who/what he was and walked away.


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> That right there makes you the OPPOSITE of her, so take heart!
> 
> As far as looking at someone's parent's/family to see what kind of partner they will be, that's NOT ME at all - I am NOTHING like the train-wreck of my mother's relationship style!!! Some of us look at our parent's relationships and see what we DO NOT want, and we become the opposite.


My ex for the longest time didn't think that I cared much about anything because when I disagreed I didn't yell or really fight. Just talking about stuff was seen as either indifference or weakness for a long time. It was probably why she basically assumed I was going to fall like a house of cards when she ended the relationship. Her mom has been overheard / quoted saying that she'd rather kill her husband than divorce him. It was probably 20 years ago that my ex walked into the room with her parents with one of them complaining that it had been years since they'd had sex. At least my ex only slowed sex to a trickle and decided not to fight (verbally and emotionally) until death but leave when she stopped caring (after getting prepared first of course). I truly believe that she's going to make better relationship decisions now that she's matured and had what at least I consider a better relationship example (for a while with me).

My parents drank every day and were drunk most weekends. 6-pack a day during the week and 12 on the weekend. They were at least happy drunks (except sometimes my mom got sad occasionally) and never really mean and were functional (until we moved out and then my mom became much less so). I could probably name each day that I have had a drink of any kind and could count on one hand the number of times I've actually been impaired. On the other hand until my mom basically hit rock bottom there was never any lack of affection or respect for each other. We ate supper together during the week and played games like Rook, progressive rummy, or pool (or watched movies / TV) regularly on the weekend. As kids we'd just kind of laugh about our parents forgetting which card game we were playing sometimes and make fun of their terrible scores. I was _hoping_ for this (without passing out in the living room floor as a part of the bargain).


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Hiner112 said:


> My ex for the longest time didn't think that I cared much about anything because when I disagreed I didn't yell or really fight. Just talking about stuff was seen as either indifference or weakness for a long time. It was probably why she basically assumed I was going to fall like a house of cards when she ended the relationship. Her mom has been overheard / quoted saying that she'd rather kill her husband than divorce him. It was probably 20 years ago that my ex walked into the room with her parents with one of them complaining that it had been years since they'd had sex. At least my ex only slowed sex to a trickle and decided not to fight (verbally and emotionally) until death but leave when she stopped caring (after getting prepared first of course). I truly believe that she's going to make better relationship decisions now that she's matured and had what at least I consider a better relationship example (for a while with me).
> 
> My parents drank every day and were drunk most weekends. 6-pack a day during the week and 12 on the weekend. They were at least happy drunks (except sometimes my mom got sad occasionally) and never really mean and were functional (until we moved out and then my mom became much less so). I could probably name each day that I have had a drink of any kind and could count on one hand the number of times I've actually been impaired. On the other hand until my mom basically hit rock bottom there was never any lack of affection or respect for each other. We ate supper together during the week and played games like Rook, progressive rummy, or pool (or watched movies / TV) regularly on the weekend. As kids we'd just kind of laugh about our parents forgetting which card game we were playing sometimes and make fun of their terrible scores. I was _hoping_ for this (without passing out in the living room floor as a part of the bargain).


I think you are going to do FINE when you find a new relationship!!


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

minimalME said:


> Did you feel abandoned or scapegoated during all this?


Yes.

I lost most of my family and social network of 20 years all at once. His parents used to treat me like a daughter, his sisters were like my own. Then everyone closed ranks and shut me out completely. That hurt much more than the affair. 

I'm still working on letting go, it's really hurting more the closer we get to Christmas. I'd be in full swing now preparing to host, baking cookies, wrapping presents, etc. I'm not alone, but feeling very lonely anyway.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Yes.
> 
> I lost most of my family and social network of 20 years all at once. His parents used to treat me like a daughter, his sisters were like my own. Then everyone closed ranks and shut me out completely. That hurt much more than the affair.
> 
> I'm still working on letting go, it's really hurting more the closer we get to Christmas. I'd be in full swing now preparing to host, baking cookies, wrapping presents, etc. *I'm not alone, but feeling very lonely anyway.*


YES.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm so, very sorry, and I understand. 

This is similar to what I'm experiencing with my ex-husband and my adult children.

And the holidays are very uncomfortable for me. It's hurtful, and I feel rejected.

But I'm determined not to be bitter and/or unforgiving. It's very important to me to stay open, and every single day I work on accepting reality as it is, and, as you said, letting go. 

I've struggled with this for several years, and it has gotten easier. 🙂 

In spite of the behavior of those around you, I hope you have a lovely Christmas. 



TXTrini said:


> Yes.
> 
> I lost most of my family and social network of 20 years all at once. His parents used to treat me like a daughter, his sisters were like my own. Then everyone closed ranks and shut me out completely. That hurt much more than the affair.
> 
> I'm still working on letting go, it's really hurting more the closer we get to Christmas. I'd be in full swing now preparing to host, baking cookies, wrapping presents, etc. I'm not alone, but feeling very lonely anyway.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

minimalME said:


> I'm so, very sorry, and I understand.
> 
> This is similar to what I'm experiencing with my ex-husband and my adult children.
> 
> ...


The situation with your kids sounds truly heartbreaking , but I'm glad it's got easier with time. I don't see the point in being bitter either, it changes nothing and only makes you unhappier and more isolated. 

I'm fortunate enough to have people who care about me in my life, even a new love. Still, I'm simply not in a Christmas sort of mood. It's all I can do to put up a good front, for my mom's sake, not to completely ruin things for her. I suppose you can say I'm trying to fake it till I make it.  

Hopefully, you have a wonderful Christmas too. I know it's a really difficult time for many people.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

minimalME said:


> I'm so, very sorry, and I understand.
> 
> This is similar to what I'm experiencing with my ex-husband and my adult children.
> 
> ...


Have you tried volunteering...? That would be a wonderful way to make new meaningful connections with other people, who would appreciate YOU!!!


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I have! I've helped serve Christmas dinners for the community twice. 🤗

And I thought about delivering meals this year, but with covid, I'm just gonna stay in. 😬



LisaDiane said:


> Have you tried volunteering...? That would be a wonderful way to make new meaningful connections with other people, who would appreciate YOU!!!


----------



## hardway (Dec 11, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> . . . Never assume that the degree of openness and honesty that is central to your being is shared by others.


AMEN!


----------



## Real talk (Apr 13, 2017)

Simping doesn't garner respect, it garners pity.


----------

