# Hating the mother of my two children



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm 5 months out from D-Day.

My wife left for OM. 

I tried to reconcile. It didn't happen. I was on the emotional roller coaster for months.

The past few days I've been feeling this deep cold hate towards her. I'm thinking I don't even like her as a human being anymore given what she has done. I think she's a cruel selfish woman even if I'm still partly in love with her because I know what we had between us was love and it was good (until it wasn't good enough for her, I suppose). Sometimes I am ashamed she is the mother of my two children. 

Sometimes I don't want to deal with her on the slightest issue because I can't stand looking at her, talking to her or dealing with her stupid attitude that everything is fine in the world. (It's got to be something of an act, I'm sure.) Sometimes I want her to know how much I hate her. 

I suppose this is natural, right? It's a bit scary because it is a very strong emotion I'm experiencing.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I'm 5 months out from D-Day.
> 
> My wife left for OM.
> 
> ...


It's 'natural' for a while.

Eventually you will need to gain some self control.

Self regulate.

Straight into indifference.

Do you guys have a co-parenting schedule?


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

You are transitioning. Your perception of her is slowly changing. Hate is not the last destination though - its complete indifference. At that stage nothing she does or says will trigger any type of reaction from you. To you, she will be one of many women on this planet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> Transition into indifference


Is that possible? 

Surely you must have residual feelings for your Ex?

I find it hard to believe I could look at her the same way I look at anybody else. That actually frightens me a bit.

It makes me wonder if that's how she sees me.

She has said before she thinks we'll be friends down the road. Of course that just makes me hate her more.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Do you guys have a co-parenting schedule?


Not yet. 

I'm out of the country for a while and she is watching the children. 

We assume we'll do week on / week off.


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## N8vee (Nov 4, 2012)

I know how you feel. I think I'm finally rounding the bend here as far as letting go of my hate. I certainly was taking stabs at her in any way I could, just to try and make her feel as bad as I felt she made me feel. 
I do know now, that this is wrong of me, and I need to rise up and be the better person that I know I'm capable of being. 
Stay positive, try not to feed into the hate, it can be unhealthy for you and drive an even bigger wedge between the two of you. For the sake of my children (3 under 3 years old), I know I need to attempt to treat her better. 
I don't want my kids to pick up on that hate and think it's normal either


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

N8vee said:


> I know how you feel. I think I'm finally rounding the bend here as far as letting go of my hate. I certainly was taking stabs at her in any way I could, just to try and make her feel as bad as I felt she made me feel.
> I do know now, that this is wrong of me, and I need to rise up and be the better person that I know I'm capable of being.
> Stay positive, try not to feed into the hate, it can be unhealthy for you and drive an even bigger wedge between the two of you. For the sake of my children (3 under 3 years old), I know I need to attempt to treat her better.
> I don't want my kids to pick up on that hate and think it's normal either


Yes, all good reasons why I've held back. 

Although I did lash out at her post D-Day and separation. 

I hate how they remain so calm, cool and collected most of the time. It's like they are waiting for us to lose face and get emotional. 

Sometimes I wish something bad would happen to her. Not harmful, I mean, but something that would make her lose face and feel real shame. The affair doesn't seem to be cutting in because she just tells people the marriage was unhappy. (It wasn't).


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Is that possible?
> 
> Surely you must have residual feelings for your Ex?
> 
> ...


What frightens you about it?

Do I have residual feelings for my ex?

Hard to say.

I'd like to think no.

At times though, I admittedly will still trigger from time to time.

But I no longer stomp around kicking the dirt, muttering to myself "I wasted all those years."

Rather, I have taken what has happened and turned it into positives for the future.

If her suggesting you guys will be friends down the future provokes emotion out of you.

You are not indifferent.




staystrong said:


> Yes, all good reasons why I've held back.
> 
> Although I did lash out at her post D-Day and separation.
> 
> ...


Of course you lashed out on her post D-Day and Separation.

It's what happens.

Welcome to life.

You hate how she remains so calm?

I hate how your focus is completely on her and not on yourself.

Gonna get mad at me for it?

She can do, say, think, feel and express whatever she wants until her face turns blue.

What does it have to do with you now?

"Something that would make her lose face and feel real shame" is a wonderful way to mask what you really mean.

"I hope one day she feels as bad as I do."

Hope and assuming.

Two things that must be let go.

Things will start to feel better when you start to learn to change your focus off of your ex and keep it on yourself.

You guys 'assume' you will be doing 1 week rotations with the children?

Have you taken the time to look into co-parenting schedules?


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## N8vee (Nov 4, 2012)

I know this isn't my thread, but for what it's worth...The county that we reside in is making us take a co-parenting class, even if it's just one session. We both agreed it's for the best. Our feelings don't trump the children's potential and future. 

I like the schedule we have worked out for 50/50 as well. mon/tue is me, wed/thr is her, and we switch off weekends. We didn't want to go the whole week without seeing the kids.

Just some food for thought, sorry if i jacked the thread a bit, just trying to help if I can.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I hate how they remain so calm, cool and collected most of the time. It's like they are waiting for us to lose face and get emotional.


It helps me to understand that as much as mine seems calm, cool and collected... she isn't. While really drunk one night she let out that she was actively looking for any reason she could find to hate me, in order to make it easier to leave me. She was pushing buttons intentionally in order to get me to lose face so she'd have something to point at and relieve her own guilt. Why give her that and it make it easier?

She repeated it over and over in between drunken sobs. "This would be so much easier if I hated you. But you are such a good guy I can't find anything wrong with you". 

This is when I let go of a lot of my anger. I didn't hate this sobbing thing laying on the floor bawling. I felt pity. I felt sorry for her. It put things in perspective for me. I realized that I am so much stronger than I thought I was and moving on will be so much easier for me than it will be for her, if she even tries. 



staystrong said:


> The affair doesn't seem to be cutting in because she just tells people the marriage was unhappy. (It wasn't).


I can look at myself and admit what I've done wrong. And I'm actively working to improve myself. That's the best revenge. Not sinking into self hatred like she is. I did damage my marriage, but it really wasn't anything that wasn't fixable with a little bit of effort. I just wasn't self aware and she wasn't good at communicating her needs. Certainly nothing to hate myself over. 

I did enjoy my marriage and her painting it black won't change that. If it makes her feel better, fine. I can't shift her paradigm. And if I get stuck in bitterness and anger I will only help her keep an unhealthy one, and more importantly will prevent ME from moving forward. 

If she heals, cool. She'll be a better co-parent. If she doesn't, she'll repeat the pattern. Regardless of which path she chooses, I WILL be a better parent, man and lover than I ever was before. Hell, I already am 2 months after D-Day (well haven't tested the lover part yet but it will happen).


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

The problem right now is that when I look at her I feel worthless.

I know that her affair was really sexually charged so now I feel like I couldn't satisfy her sexually. It's a gut-wrenching feeling and it makes me feel two inches tall. It's an assault on my manhood. I'm also disgusted that she was doing all of these things behind my back and didn't want to do them with me (or if she did she wasn't letting on to it). 

This is the kind of thing that makes me sick to my stomach and makes me hate her because in fact I hate myself as a result. She and the OM have this over me.. this idea that he's better for her, better than me at pleasing her or whatever, and I have to live with that. I would've been in to anything sexually with her but I guess she lost the attraction and went wild when she had a new one. If she wanted to get dirty, why not get dirty with me. 

It makes me want to spit in her face. The "How could you?" feeling. I just want to tell her to F*ck Off for throwing away a marriage and breaking up a family. 

Again, it's because I feel less worthy. Epic FAIL.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> The problem right now is that when I look at her I feel worthless.
> 
> I know that her affair was really sexually charged so now I feel like I couldn't satisfy her sexually. It's a gut-wrenching feeling and it makes me feel two inches tall. It's an assault on my manhood. I'm also disgusted that she was doing all of these things behind my back and didn't want to do them with me (or if she did she wasn't letting on to it).
> 
> ...


But you are NOT an epic fail. You are here. You are putting forth effort and actively trying to figure out what went wrong and have tried to save your marriage because you value it, your commitments, and your family. 

Have you remained faithful? Have you been a good father? Did you try to be a good, loving husband during your marriage? Have you been willing to consider forgiveness? You are trying to better yourself, are you not? 

Is she doing any of those things? No. She is the epic fail. You are the victim, but not a casualty unless you decide to be. How long do you want to be a victim?

I do know how you feel about your manhood. Your ego and self-esteem have been severely damaged by HER actions. But that is because you are putting YOUR self worth in her hands. Take it back!

I let the things my stbxw did damage mine too and questioned my manhood as well. She was very emotionally abusive. Told me she has to be drunk to want me. Said she's only been doing me out of duty (bs - she's a nympho and would initiate). She would tell me "Well THAT was disappointing! Get off of me!". She told me I made her feel so unloved that she can't even get herself off! But none of these happened until after she met OM. I know it had *nothing to do with me*, as is apparent by her masturbation comment. That's just self loathing due to the guilt and shame she had for having feelings for another man. How could I *possibly* satisfy her if she can't do it herself? 

You need to understand - in order for the affair to even happen, she had to detach from you emotionally first. That's not about sex and your manhood was irrelevant.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

It's hard, but realize - during the affair she was not thinking of you at all. There was/is no empathy because you were/are not on her mind. It was not about you. It was completely selfish.

OM is not better for her. He's not better than you. He's more exciting because it's an illusion. It's 100% fun because there is no "real life" involved. It's a fantasy.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> OM is not better for her. He's not better than you. He's more exciting because it's an illusion. It's 100% fun because there is no "real life" involved. It's a fantasy.


Well, she left me for him. She's still with him so far. There was substance to that relationship else she wouldn't have left. I was supposed to be the one who was with her for the rest of our lives. We have two kids together, dammit. Doesn't that count for anything anymore?

Knowing that she detached emotionally doesn't make it any better.

I want her to know much I hate her but I know it will only damage me somehow.

The dark side of me wishes I could shoot the OM in front of her. Just to see the pain on her face. Yes, Up n Over, I do want her to suffer like I did, maybe worse.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I was supposed to be the one who was with her for the rest of our lives. We have two kids together, dammit. Doesn't that count for anything anymore?


Did you make her leave? Did you choose the OM? Did you split the family apart?

That says volumes about her. Not you. What are you doing now? What are your plans? What do you need out of life? 

What are you actively doing to ensure you have a place in your children's lives? Don't assume you can trust her there. She's already proven to you that you can't. What are you going to do about it?


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## dontpanic (Feb 23, 2012)

Staystrong,
I really feel for you that you are experiencing this terrible pain. The anger and betrayal and loss and grief that you feel is very real. She caused you so much pain and hurt you badly -- of course you hate her and wish her and OM ill will.

You need to accept that your feelings are normal. Don't feel guilty about getting angry. Its part of the process.

One book that I found helpful with all the conflicting emotions is "Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends" by Bruce Fisher (3rd ed, c2000). It will help you to cope with the stages that you need to go through until you get to acceptance of yourself and the situation.

I know it is so hard, but we on TAM do "feel your pain" as we have all experienced many of the same feelings. There will be a point that you recognize that it really is "not about you, its about her". Your WW owns her actions and is guilty for destroying a sacred trust. You need to focus on taking care of yourself and your kids.

Are you speaking to an IC? I think it would really help to give you perspective when you are kicking yourself with all the "what ifs" and feeling like you caused this by not being "enough of a man". Frankly, that self-deprecation is all bullsh*t. You are a good man. You are the one that stayed. You are willing to work on things. You didn't take the easy way out.

Wishing you peace and strength in the days to come.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Reality bites staystrong! It is what it is right now. You are giving her and that POS too much power in your Life. She's not your problem anymore. All you have is your kids and yourself. Your focus continues to be on the wrong person. You need to realize this, the sooner the better. 
F' her and F' him! They have done you wrong... But at some point, you are doing it to yourself. She is no longer worthy of being your wife. Become the Man that you NEED to become; start on this ASAP! I'm on the same boat as you are so I feel what you are going through; I'm not just spewing BS. Refocus! Earn a new and better life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks guys. (And thanks for the book suggestion, 42)

I think I was a good husband, dad, person, lover, etc. I've kicked myself a lot for things I would have like to have changed, yes, but I know I'm a good catch. You guys say one day I will say it's all her thing one day. But how do get over the sexual rejection? That's her basically saying "you weren't man enough for me". WTF?

I'm doing the best I can with the kids. She's a good mom overall (caring, discipline, etc.) except she's made some very bad big decisions (including letting the OM move in a few days after I left).


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Reality bites staystrong! It is what it is right now. You are giving her and that POS too much power in your Life. She's not your problem anymore. All you have is your kids and yourself. Your focus continues to be on the wrong person. You need to realize this, the sooner the better.
> F' her and F' him! They have done you wrong... But at some point, you are doing it to yourself. She is no longer worthy of being your wife. Become the Man that you NEED to become; start on this ASAP! I'm on the same boat as you are so I feel what you are going through; I'm not just spewing BS. Refocus! Earn a new and better life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How long did it take to "click" for you?

What actions did you take?

I was DEEPLY in love with this woman. We had our own romantic tale, shared life story, kids together, etc. This really effed me up. Now it's just about being a dad and holding a job and doing a few activities - I feel the rest of my identity was robbed.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Her opinion doesn't mean squat, now does it. Look at what she's doing. A few things could be said about her - but we are adults here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

dontpanic said:


> One book that I found helpful with all the conflicting emotions is "Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends" by Bruce Fisher (3rd ed, c2000). It will help you to cope with the stages that you need to go through until you get to acceptance of yourself and the situation.


I second that recommendation. VERY helpful book. Don't just breeze through it. Take it chapter by chapter and do the exercises. It's hard, but I can tell you it works. I'm still only on about chapter 3.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Stay you are more of a man than she could ever handle. You focus on you and let her go. The pain will lessen over time. All that sexual talk is BS. She will have to have a "real" relationship with this guy now and believe me her fantasy will soon turn into a mundane reality. It's hard looking into the mirror when you are a POS.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Don't get me wrong - I still go through my spells here and there but they are fewer and far between. 
You are a good and honorable man; I can tell - but it does not mean a damn thing till you start believing it. Once you do, things will start getting better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

staystrong said:


> The dark side of me wishes I could shoot the OM in front of her. Just to see the pain on her face. Yes, Up n Over, I do want her to suffer like I did, maybe worse.


This is making me nervous. Are you seeing a counselor right now? I think you should.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> It's hard looking into the mirror when you are a POS.


This is true. 

Also hard when you've been rejected.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

northernlights said:


> This is making me nervous. Are you seeing a counselor right now? I think you should.


I am not. I'm on travel.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> I second that recommendation. VERY helpful book. Don't just breeze through it. Take it chapter by chapter and do the exercises. It's hard, but I can tell you it works. I'm still only on about chapter 3.


I want to be banging my wife so well she'll never leave, not reading some book on how to get over her!!!

You guys know exactly what I mean.

This is HARD. 

I don't care if men feel they are superior to me. But when a woman (my wife) feels another man is superior to me, well then that's it. Ego crushed. Test failed.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I want to be banging my wife so well she'll never leave, not reading some book on how to get over her!!!
> 
> You guys know exactly what I mean.
> 
> ...


You want a woman to stick with you just for sex? Get a blow up doll.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

No, I don't want MY WIFE to leave me because sex was better with OM.

I mean, I know that's not the only reason she left of course but it's part of it. He was always clean shaven, good smelling, ready to bang her every which way. I was the husband .. of course I'm not going to be like that ALL the time. 

Now I'm going to be on full alert for the rest of my life wondering if next woman I'm with is going to leave me. I just wish I had been cheated on BEFORE my wife so I would have known the signs. This is NOT the relationship I wanted to "learn" from. It's making me neurotic.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

From "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P Glass, PhD:

Assumption: The person having an affair isn't "getting enough" at home. 

Fact: The truth is that the unfaithful partner may not be giving enough. In fact, the spouse who gives too little is at greater risk than the spouse who gives too much because he or she is less invested. 

Contrary to popular wisdom, people are not as satisfied in relationships where they are "overbenefited" as in relationships where there is more equity. In most satisfying relationships, giving and receiving are balance. The involved spouse may be either an exhausted giver or an unappreciative recipient. 

Here's how it works: It's easy for the person who is giving less to become involved with another person. Partners who give much less than they receive already have one foot out the door, so it's not difficult for them to break the loosely held connection to their marriages. The more you invest the more commited you are and the more attached you feel. 

The partner who has invested time and energy in the relationship is like someone who just put new tires and new brakes on their car. When the transmission blows up, they think: "I've got too much invested to junk it now."


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## zappy88200 (Dec 6, 2012)

Stay - I understand your pain but don't think you weren't man enough for her because you gave her 2 beautiful children, it was your semen that produced your adorable kids.

I'm very positive even though she is with the other man, he wouldn't be able to give her what you gave her.

I wish so much ill on the spouses who leave and make physical intimacy an excuse.

God Bless

Zappy


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> From "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P Glass, PhD:
> 
> Assumption: The person having an affair isn't "getting enough" at home.
> 
> ...


I did read that book and it was very good. I almost tried to get her to read it. 

I like your car analogy. That felt like me at the end of things. 

I don't know..it's hard to say what she felt and when. I see that she obviously was keeping a lot inside, compounding her suffering. I was the person she was supposed to be able to talk to about her problems, but if the problem was me? Now there's the rub. I wish she would have least talked to her girlfriends. I think OM became the "friend".


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zappy88200 said:


> Stay - I understand your pain but don't think you weren't man enough for her because you gave her 2 beautiful children, it was your semen that produced your adorable kids.
> 
> I'm very positive even though she is with the other man, he wouldn't be able to give her what you gave her.
> 
> ...


Thanks Zappy. 

Our kids are young (3 and 6) and they deserved to grow up in a happy intact household. This is part of the reason I hate my wife. She denied them this. She denied me this. 

There's no reason she can't have kids with OM. And if she does, then that's it. I was just a brief chapter in her life. I know I'm not supposed to define myself by her, but I do in part define myself by this stage in my life. It was by far and away the most meaningful (marriage, family).

She left her first husband, too, after seven years together. (No kids). I thought I was the one who could keep her heart and whom she would never want to leave. I did for seven years.

This sounds so soap opera / low class but we're both educated, well-rounded people. 

*Do you not hate your ex's who cheated and left you?*


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I want to puke.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

staystrong said:


> *Do you not hate your ex's who cheated and left you?*


What's the point?

What good does it do you, to hate them?


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I did read that book and it was very good. I almost tried to get her to read it.
> 
> I like your car analogy. That felt like me at the end of things.
> 
> I don't know..it's hard to say what she felt and when. I see that she obviously was keeping a lot inside, compounding her suffering. I was the person she was supposed to be able to talk to about her problems, but if the problem was me? Now there's the rub. I wish she would have least talked to her girlfriends. I think OM became the "friend".


I did get mine to read the book. I highlighted and flagged the crap out of it and left it next to her computer. Took her a while, but she did. Through the whole thing she kept waking me up over and over to try and prove every little point wrong. Called her BS and went back to sleep. She changed after that and has been apologizing a lot. Still not remorseful though. At all.

And no, I don't hate her. Not at all. I actually still care for her more than I can say. But why try to love a brick wall? Waste of time.

Have had bouts of overwhelming rage and fury though. I refuse to let her see my anger. She doesn't deserve to see it. That's when I go to the gun range. Then I come home smiling.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Our kids are young (3 and 6) and they deserved to grow up in a happy intact household. This is part of the reason I hate my wife. She denied them this. She denied me this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stay-

Yes I have these feelings too as we have twin boys who are about to turn 6. We didn't have the infidelity issues and the issues we had seemed workable to me. It is so hard not to let the resentment and anger show. I would suggest IC and family therapy for you and your kids for how best to handle this. And I would suggest speaking with an attorney so you can make custody agreements that most beneficial to you and the kids. This will also give you something to focus on.

If you read my thread, it comes off like a Lifetime "Special Movie of the Week". And she's an attorney and I have a Master's.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> What's the point?
> 
> What good does it do you, to hate them?


What good does it do to love them?

It's a feeling we can't control.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

staystrong said:


> What good does it do to love them?
> 
> It's a feeling we can't control.


I disagree.

Love and hate, alike, are merely emotions.

Emotions can absolutely be controlled.

You have to want to control them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

On the flip side, I'm not making light of your situation and saying it's easy to control your emotions, but it is entirely possible, and you will get to that point.

Your focus has to be realigned, from your STBXW, to yourself.

It takes time and effort, on your part, but indifference is the only way out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> She left her first husband, too, after seven years together. (No kids). I thought I was the one who could keep her heart and whom she would never want to leave. I did for seven years.


She was telling your who she was all along. You did not see the pattern? Did you really think you could change her?

Dont worry i fell for the same thing with my STBXW. She broke off her engagement to be with me. Got M, left me in 1st year, came back, and it lasted 6yrs, and 2beautiful kids later, she is done, she is out!

I too thought it would be different for me, that it would last. But now i realize based on her patterns that she a "runner", when it gets tuff she bails. 

If i look at her history and what she was showing me, the writing was on the wall at some point she would leave. 

These types of W are toxic.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I am not. I'm on travel.


What does it mean to be on travel? I'm confused.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Love and hate, alike, are merely emotions.
> 
> ...


I have every reason to absolutely hate this woman from the bottom of my heart. And for a long time. She carried on a relationship under my nose, lied, cheated and dumped me, all the while saying she loved me. She then X'ed me out of her life and dumped me in her own country (with no family, no friends), when I didn't have a stable job, and then put me in a position where I can't leave because I can't take my two beautiful girls with me. 

I feel I need to feel this hate for her. Otherwise I'm just trying to squash it and suppress it. I will have to 'control' it to the extent I don't act out on it towards her others. But the hate is real.. I've never hated anyone more.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> She was telling your who she was all along. You did not see the pattern? Did you really think you could change her?


I thought she'd already changed. That her first was a "mistake" (they were together seven years but married only six months).



HiRoad said:


> Dont worry i fell for the same thing with my STBXW. She broke off her engagement to be with me. Got M, left me in 1st year, came back, and it lasted 6yrs, and 2beautiful kids later, she is done, she is out!
> 
> I too thought it would be different for me, that it would last. But now i realize based on her patterns that she a "runner", when it gets tuff she bails.
> 
> ...


Yep, it's quite awful. I'm sorry man. They cast a love spell on you, melt into your heart, and the tear through your rib cage to get out. And you're left thinking it's you fault because you were not a master of knowing how to love well enough.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

northernlights said:


> What does it mean to be on travel? I'm confused.


I mean that I'm out of her country for two months and she is watching the girls until I get back and we share custody.


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## dontpanic (Feb 23, 2012)

Stay - Of course you hate her. She did terrible things and showed who true colors and made you feel like a fool for loving her so much and caring for her and trusting her only to find out that she was a lying, cheating b***h.



staystrong said:


> Well, she left me for him. She's still with him so far. There was substance to that relationship else she wouldn't have left.


She didn't leave to run away from you. She left because she couldn't face her life and her choices - she ran away from herself. She has always run away when the going gets tough. 

The fact that she is still with OM is not a proof that their relationship has "substance". All that it proves is that she is still in the fog of the "grass is greener" fantasy. I'm sure they are having great sex together, but look what she gave up? If she was an adult and had issues in the marriage, she should have faced them and dealt with them. Instead she ran away. Again. 

Inside she hates herself and has cr*ppy self-esteem because she knows she is a loser who can't keep her commitments. One day she will realize what she gave up and what she did to her husband and children and feel remorse. Or maybe she will never realize, which is even more pathetic.

The reality is: Why do you want validation from a woman like this? Why are you giving her so much power over you? Why are you letting her decide if you are a "real man"? Why are you letting her decide if you were "good enough" - in bed or anywhere else? Why does she get to be the one who says whether your marriage was a happy one and what those 7 years together meant?

I know that you feel rejected. It sucks that she abandoned you and gave up on you and told you she needs more than you can give her. Her rejection can't define you. Only you can define you.

Take back the power! You decide: Do you want to be with a lying, cheating, weak woman who is so self-involved she can't see past the end of her nose? Who brings OM into her home with her kids and doesn't care that you are alone in a foreign country without your friends or family to support you? Who never appreciated what a loving, devoted husband and father you are? Who gets bored and runs away every 7 yrs, regardless of who she hurts or who gets left behind or what damage she leaves in her wake?

You are the strong one here. And I know you know it inside. Hate her, hate him, yell, scream, punch, cry, rage and work through all of your emotions.

Tell me, who do you think is more "normal" or "healthy" after 7 years and 2 kids: someone who is hurt and angry because he still cares or someone who acts like she doesn't give a sh*t about the consequences of her actions.

I know that you are travelling and say that you can't seek an IC now, but man - you've got to speak to someone. Even if its someone temporary in your current location or even if you initiate a therapy relationship over the phone as a stop-gap measure.

You sound so frustrated that your pos-STBXW doesn't understand how you feel. Doesn't get the horror of the situation. You have got to stop looking towards her for validation of your feelings. Talk to someone - to ANYONE else.



staystrong said:


> I want her to know much I hate her but I know it will only damage me somehow.
> 
> The dark side of me wishes I could shoot the OM in front of her. Just to see the pain on her face. Yes, Up n Over, I do want her to suffer like I did, maybe worse.


In her fog write now, she will never know how much you hate her and not care if she did. You will not see the pain on her face or the suffering because she is not feeling those things. She doesn't care. I know that you wish she cared enough to feel the pain and to suffer. But, I'm sorry, she doesn't. Maybe she never will.

Now stop caring about how SHE feels and start caring about how YOU feel.

Right now you feel anger and hatred. Great. You should. Stay the course. I know that you will come out the other side.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Reality bites staystrong! It is what it is right now. You are giving her and that POS too much power in your Life. She's not your problem anymore. All you have is your kids and yourself. Your focus continues to be on the wrong person. You need to realize this, the sooner the better.
> F' her and F' him! They have done you wrong... But at some point, you are doing it to yourself. She is no longer worthy of being your wife. Become the Man that you NEED to become; start on this ASAP! I'm on the same boat as you are so I feel what you are going through; I'm not just spewing BS. Refocus! Earn a new and better life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow..this is me! This is what I need to get through to myself about my ex and the POS he picked over me! I am giving them waayyy too much power over me in my life...they are in my every waking thought and even in my dreams a lot of the time. I need to get it in my head that he wasnt worthy of me and the love I gave him. Its quite a blow to the self esteem when your husband picks a piece of human garbage over you, especially when he KNOWS that this is what she is. I am in a place right now of disgust and hate toward them both, but at the same time I am still in love with him.  The hate and anger can help push me up and through this, but it sure as hell hasnt been easy, and I have yet to be successful. I am sorry that this is where you are as well, SS.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

dontpanic said:


> Stay - Of course you hate her. She did terrible things and showed who true colors and made you feel like a fool for loving her so much and caring for her and trusting her only to find out that she was a lying, cheating b***h.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a great post. Very motivational and I thank you. 

I just can't shake that feeling that I've lost the best thing that's ever happened to me. I know you're probably shaking your head over that, but you don't know her. I do feel I did not 'tend' to my marriage well enough to keep up my wife. Yes, she's flawed but I knew that going in. I thought she had matured, you know, by having kids and so forth. Now she is on a new path with music (OM is her musical partner) and that's always been her passion. So that's how I know I've lost her. I just feel so robbed.. we were supposed to share so much together. There was still so much left to do. Husband and wife. In it for the long haul. 

People say don't let another person define you. The thing is I like a relationship to partly define me. This was the longest romantic relationship I had and the only really deeply meaningful one at that. I feel that good relationships enhance who we are, not take away from it. 

I know she loved me deeply. She did change, it's true. She fell out of love or something. But I've never felt this way about ANYBODY else in my entire life and to know that it is no longer reciprocated? Well then just kill me now because it took me 30 years to find her and I don't have another 30 to find someone else who stirs me like she did. (Not to say she didn't frustrate the hell out of me, too.) When I see her on Skype with the kids, it's like looking at a family photo framed but with me missing in it. It is so freaking painful. Maybe she won't realize some of the pain until the kids start staying with me a week at a time.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

You are far too hook in delusions and labels.

"Not good enough for her"

"Not man enough for her"

Hating her.

Loathing her.

Finding worth in sex.

Focused completely on her.

You lack self worth.

Placing your worth in the hands of anyone or anything will lead you down a road that eventually falls out from under you.

Happened now.

Will continue to happen.

Love is not the cake.

It's the icing on top.

What happens when you eat nothing but icing?

You end up sh!tting yourself and regretting it.

One day you will get sick and tired of being sick and tired.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

No man is an island, Up.

We can not be totally detached. I've read De Mello and he's very detached. It's not a path for all of us. When I was younger I understood this more, but with a wife and family I wanted attachment. Attachment felt natural. 

Look, you know I want my life back the way it was before the A. 

It's impossible to have that. 

I had a major realization tonight. I had a lot of clarity and I don't need to ask the "Why's?" anymore. It's just tragic because I know exactly what went wrong and when, and how avoidable it was.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> No man is an island, Up.
> 
> We can not be totally detached. I've read De Mello and he's very detached. It's not a path for all of us. When I was younger I understood this more, but with a wife and family I wanted attachment. Attachment felt natural.
> 
> ...


Who said anything about an island?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

staystrong said:


> No man is an island, Up.
> 
> We can not be totally detached. I've read De Mello and he's very detached. It's not a path for all of us. When I was younger I understood this more, but with a wife and family I wanted attachment. Attachment felt natural.
> 
> ...


And you can have that life Stay, just with someone else. Hate can be a very motivating emotion. As long as you control it and direct it towards something positive.

You cannot let it consume you to the point that you only feel hate.

I always say the best revenge is living well. And to live well in front of your STBXW.

Work to make your life the best it can be. Work to make your kids lives the best it can be. Work on you to be the best man, Dad and future husband you can be.

And do it right in front of your Ex!

Her relationship born out of cheating with a cheater is doomed. They will never trust each other. And the fact she moved the due in right away shows how selfish and insecure she is.

Go find a new woman. One that is hotter and has high self esteem than your Ex.

That is the best revenge StayStrong!

HM64


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I mean that I'm out of her country for two months and she is watching the girls until I get back and we share custody.


Ugh, my worst nightmare. Were you married in the US or abroad? My H and I fortunately married in the US, but not because I was aware that his country has a reputation for screwing foreign parents out of custody. I got lucky there.

Do you speak the language? Have health insurance? Are there any kinds of support services that you can access? I understand how you feel, but you definitely need to make sure that your feelings don't lead to behavior that will be traumatic for your children.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I'm 5 months out from D-Day.
> 
> My wife left for OM.
> 
> ...



hi ss. sorry about your stuff , it's a nightmare l know , we wish we could wake up.
but l so hear you. we split 3mths ago , she moved into a rental 8wks ago , with my daughter 11.
life had been rough , she'd changed a lot to and l got cold towards that ,. it hurt her deeply , she thought she wasn't loved or wanted . but that was all wrong , we just got f'd up.
but leaving was her answer , quitting , to start seeing some friend she'd been leaning on. destroy our family.

for that l hate her to most days now , it's getting stronger as this **** sinks in .
sometimes l wanna ring her up and abuse the **** outa her.
others we've talked as if we're still together , but underneath l've still had the rage.
other days she's dropped in and l can't even look at her . but on others we've talked and talked.
but as time goes on , despise seems to be growing now . she was a good girl , great caring fun person , but she went through a lot o not only my stuff but none the less. when l'd realized , l wanted to fix it , repair us , not quit and destroy our family .
or strat seeing someone else after 18yrs.
this last few days the anger has me never wanting to talk to her again. as well as still loving her and then , there's my daughter in the middle.

good luck with everything though ss.it's a sickening roller coaster isn't it.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Yes, all good reasons why I've held back.
> 
> Although I did lash out at her post D-Day and separation.
> 
> ...


hu , you too hey.
mine seems to be flavor of the mth round here too. all my daughters friends are stoked she's living in town and on hand after school now and my wifes new crowd all just seem to be happy they have their new little playmate.\
not one of the peolpe we knew as a couple , or her family , have rang me up since this happened. not one.
l dunno what she's telling them but i wish things would blow whatever it is uta the fg water to.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

northernlights said:


> Ugh, my worst nightmare. Were you married in the US or abroad? My H and I fortunately married in the US, but not because I was aware that his country has a reputation for screwing foreign parents out of custody. I got lucky there.
> 
> Do you speak the language? Have health insurance? Are there any kinds of support services that you can access? I understand how you feel, but you definitely need to make sure that your feelings don't lead to behavior that will be traumatic for your children.


I speak it somewhat, not nearly well enough to handle all my business/legal affairs. 

I have health insurance, fortunately.

I can't wait to see my children but I'm dreading going back and being nearly completely alone. Especially at night. It's going to be tough.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> not one of the peolpe we knew as a couple , or her family , have rang me up since this happened. not one.


Sorry, man. I know how this can be. The people in our network had stronger loyalties to her because they knew her longer. Like you said, you have no idea what she tells them. My wife's sister had no know idea OM moved in after I left to travel. She even told her husband (whom I speak with) to "stay out of this, it's not our story." Wow, feel the love.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ha ha yea exactly , love everywhere 

l dunno , l've never fitted in round here , it's her thing .
the empty house stuffs just terrible . you know i thought it might be good after 18yrs, bit of freedom , it's pretty bad.
but l miss her and my daughter so badly right now. all the Christmas stuff's just been sickening this week.
l dunno how after she's done this , well the good her . the other side l wanna hate forever , abuse and see this new bs life she's destroyed us to go after - blow up in her fg face.

but l dunno how it's really going for her , she's so busy coming across like ms togetherness now , it's very hard to read in her - l can only dream


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Still hating her today...

Yep.

I especially hate how chipper and happy she sounds. I'm sure many of you understand this - you're in pain, they're all fine and dandy. 

I found myself joking with her last week in a text chat about something the kids did, and then I felt like I was betraying myself. Why am I having a laugh with the woman who betrayed and dumped me? So it's back to strictly business.

All I have to do is remember she was off going down on some guy just minutes after reading bedtime stories to our kids and kissing me goodnight. I'm pretty sure I will hate her for the rest of my life.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Well congrats anger is good. Welcome to step 3 of the grieving process. I think you have passed me up according to my IC. She says Im stuck on Denial. You definitely sound better now than in your first thread when you had that cheatin pos up on a pedestal.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

I would (and actually do) reflect back the same happiness that she is showing you. If you share a laugh w/ her, then let it be. Don't let her influence your feelings. Be you, be happy - you don't need to be business like if you don't want to. Show her that her destructive ways have no bearings on your moods and attitude. 

Fake it if you have to.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Still hating her today...
> 
> Yep.
> 
> ...


Then you will never be happy again.

This choice is all on you.

Not a single thing to do with her.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> I would (and actually do) reflect back the same happiness that she is showing you. If you share a laugh w/ her, then let be. Don't her influence your feelings. Be you, be happy - you don't need to be business like if you don't want to. Show her that her destructive ways have no bearings on your moods and attitude.
> 
> Fake it if you have to.


"Fake it to make it".

When the situation arises.

You are no longer "faking it" if you openly and willing place yourself in situations that could be avoided.

That's straight up denial then.

When one is trying to 'show up' the ex, to make it appear that they are doing fine and dandy.

It's often because you are still far too focused on them rather then yourself.

What's the focus you may ask?

You still care what they think about you.

They might actually think they have 'got you' when you don't play ball with joking around, keep straight faced and get to the point.

If that bothers you.

Then you lack indifference.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> "Fake it to make it".
> 
> When the situation arises.
> 
> ...


UpnOver,

I think I am still a lonnnng way from indifference, though the thought of it is more appealing to me now than before. It used to scare me, now it sounds like relief. 

I only try to fake it if I'm pressed in the situation. Otherwise I just avoid the situation. It's so much easier. 

Up, do you have kids? How does indifference factor into that for you. If your kids were to ask you how you felt about their mom, what would you say?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> I would (and actually do) reflect back the same happiness that she is showing you.


I realize it's not real happiness because she is not a friend. Not on any level anymore. She's not a person I can trust, and therefore I will not open myself to her anymore, even if it's to share a laugh about the kids. Because underneath it, I know she murdered what we had together.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> UpnOver,
> 
> I think I am still a lonnnng way from indifference, though the thought of it is more appealing to me now than before. It used to scare me, now it sounds like relief.
> 
> ...


Yes.

6 and 4.

My daughter used to ask if I loved mom.

In the early stages I said yes.

We love each other, we love you (the kids).

She would ask why we aren't living together any longer.

I would tell her we had adult problems.

Ones that she may not understand now but will when she is older.

I said these things to comfort her.

A child should not be burdened by the stresses of adult life.

My children rarely ask me anything anymore.

I have been an open book when they talk to me (keeping to my personal principles about what kids should and shouldn't be burdened with).

I have told my daughter that I care for there mother, but things have changed.

I still love them and they love her.

It does not matter what I feel towards her.

I will not slander her in front of the kids.

They have complained on several occasions bout little things here and there about there mother.

I will agree to there objections.

This way they feel like they are being heard.

But I will not and do not play into it.

I give them neutral (so I do not cause issues between households) advice and suggestions to better there attitudes.

It was only 2 days ago that I text the ex and asked her if we could discuss a few behavioral problems about my daughter.

I wanted to try and pin point if it was due to our separation or her simply being a 6 year old girl who is growing.

We talked for 10 minutes about it and that was that.

This is what indifference can do.

It is not to say that I can get upset at times with her choices.

I rarely speak openly anymore on here about my own trials and tribulations.

I deal with them and move on the best I can.

Today, was one of those days.

But I will not allow it to define me, or hinder the rest of my day.

Indifference.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I realize it's not real happiness because she is not a friend. Not on any level anymore. She's not a person I can trust, and therefore I will not open myself to her anymore, even if it's to share a laugh about the kids. Because underneath it, *I know she murdered what we had together*.


This choice of wording will hinder you.

Friendly.

But not friends.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Well congrats anger is good. Welcome to step 3 of the grieving process. I think you have passed me up according to my IC. She says Im stuck on Denial. You definitely sound better now than in your first thread when you had that cheatin pos up on a pedestal.


I talked about 6 hours on the phone last night with a friend and we deconstructed how I was still putting her on a pedestal but couldn't see it. 

I have to admit I still put her on a pedestal in the sense that I don't think I will find someone who will make me feel the same way. 

My friend says I feel this way because my wife is the only person I've ever really loved. And unfortunately the only person I've ever really loved that much is a very selfish person.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I talked about 6 hours on the phone last night with a friend and we deconstructed how I was still putting her on a pedestal but couldn't see it.
> 
> I have to admit I still put her on a pedestal in the sense that I don't think I will find someone who will make me feel the same way.
> 
> My friend says I feel this way because my wife is the only person I've ever really loved. And unfortunately the only person I've ever really loved that much is a very selfish person.


The only reason she'd be on a 'pedestal' is because you are focusing on her.

There cannot be a pedestal if there is no focus on her.

For your sake, I hope you do not find someone who makes you feel like she has.

She also cannot make you feel anything.

That's under your control.

My ex was the first and only woman I was with as well.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I can talk to my wife about the kids' behavioral problems. It's tricky ground because she doesn't want to think it has to do with the separation when it clearly does.

Do you feel like you are wearing armor? I sense that you are still in pain.

That's good parenting to address their concerns but not sully the image of their mother. One day they will know the full story and be able to make sense of it themselves.

My ex wasn't my first woman. Just my first real love.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

All, i have come to the conclusion that YOU cannot pursade or change the way someone feels. 

As hard as it is to do, you MUST control your feelings, quickly.

Get a grasp on how to make yourself happy and do it! Do not let your happiness rest in someone elses control. 

Show confidence, control, decisivness, and kindness. Do not EVER go back, if you do, dust your self off, lesson learned and start again.

Dont let mistakes define you, rather let them tell you who you are not. It is how we react to our mistakes that defines us. 

The WAS will have to live with their decisions, people are not robots, change is inevitable. 

Live you life for you, take care of your family, and the rest will be.

@Staystrong - follow the advice of so many that are going through this here, you will grow, become stronger and find that you are better than that.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad,

I agree with *almost* all of what you say. 

I thought your wife was a WAW? 

Mine cheated, left and had OM move in with her and kids a few days after I left. It's a different ball game. 

I can show confidence, control, decisiveness, but not kindness. I want no emotions with her at all. Not now at least.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Do you feel like you are wearing armor? I sense that you are still in pain.


Armor?

No.

A sense of self regulation.

Pain?

In what sense?


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> HiRoad,
> 
> I agree with *almost* all of what you say.
> 
> ...


Yes, she is a WAW, i remember your situation. 

Point i am making is that she will still have control over you with your negative emotions twoards her. Let it go, essentially, do not care. 

Yes no emotions, but in a happy way, a condident person is happy with themselves first.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Armor?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...


Do you feel like you've fully grieved the relationship? That you no longer miss it to the point where it affects you at all?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Yes, she is a WAW, i remember your situation.
> 
> Point i am making is that she will still have control over you with your negative emotions twoards her. Let it go, essentially, do not care.
> 
> Yes no emotions, but in a happy way, a condident person is happy with themselves first.


Let's switch places and see if you feel the same way. 

I'm sure it has been excruciatingly painful for you, too. I don't mean it that way. But the pain of betrayal and disrespect runs very very deep. I was blindsided so it's like one day I am in a trusting marriage and the next day I am not. Some days it still doesn't seem real. 

I hope to get where you're at. It sounds healthier.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Do you feel like you've fully grieved the relationship? That you no longer miss it to the point where it affects you at all?


I try to remain humble as much as possible in regards to my situation.

With that being said.

I grieved and went through more than many here.

Most of it self made and induced.

I learned the hard way.

Which is why I remain on TAM.

To help those who I can and hopefully prevent what I went through.

It's the least I can do after everything I have been through.

Yes.

I have grieved my marriage.

100%.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

You deleted your threads so I don't know your story. 

100% and it your break up happened in 2012?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> You deleted your threads so I don't know your story.
> 
> 100% and it your break up happened in 2012?


Separated in March.

It's not without hardships.

But I am happier than ever.

She is not the woman for me.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Stay - i cant imaging what your going throught either. But i do have a good friend that can relate. Did i tell you about him?

Real quick, he was M 14yrs had 2 kids 4 & 10. White picket fence, get what i am saying. He was livin the dream. She takes him out to dinner for his b-day, hands him a halmark card, telling him that she has been having an A!!! Talk about ripping someones insides out! Guy was devistated. It wasnt until he truly let go, (which was a yr later) that he truned the corner.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

He is a much stronger man than I, i would have gone on a rampage or a alchol binge for a week. He talks about his X like its nothing, he!! he even gave her some extra $$ to buy the kids gifts this year. Not one care in the world for this guy. 

He found the secret, he is trully happy with himself and loves himself first.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Weird. Shockingly weird. 

Me, I'm still having the regrets that if I had maintained my health, appearance, finances, etc in tip-top shape then I wouldn't be in this position. I'd be sitting on the couch right now kissing my wife and watching our kids play. But you tell me it can happen with all those things intact.

Did she leave him for the OM?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Weird. Shockingly weird.
> 
> Me, I'm still having the regrets that if I had maintained my health, appearance, finances, etc in tip-top shape then I wouldn't be in this position. I'd be sitting on the couch right now kissing my wife and watching our kids play. But you tell me it can happen with all those things intact.
> 
> Did she leave him for the OM?


It's rather shameful that you weren't perfect...


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Me, I'm still having the regrets that if I had maintained my health, appearance, finances, etc in tip-top shape then I wouldn't be in this position. I'd be sitting on the couch right now kissing my wife and watching our kids play. But you tell me it can happen with all those things intact.


SS - You have *no idea* if that is true. 

I've been married 8yrs, together for 10, 6yo daughter. Bought first house 2.5yrs ago. Bought new car this summer for stbxw - she picked it out. I have great, stable career in creative field with ability to work from home. We have little debt and were quickly building savings. Frequently brought home flowers. No beer belly - 5'9" and steady 155lbs. Clean cut. Sex multiple x/wk. Got her a new wedding ring for her last bday - got rid of cheap original setting, found unique antique setting through diamond broker friend and had it altered to fit original stone. She positively beamed with adoration for me. FB posts frequently about how awesome her hubby was and how much she loved me. Bragged about me to work friends, etc. 

And then she started drinkin too much, hangin with younger, single friends from work, less time with her D6, met OM, had A and told me ILYBNILWY. Now divorce final on Valentine's Day (my bday), I get kiddo and we're allowed to move out of state. She's completely checked out from us both. 

It had nothing to do with you. She made that choice based on her own insecurities.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Once you learn how to love yourself, none of this separation/divorce BS will matter? 

Up, can you articulate that moment when it all clicked? Or even, what let up to it.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Sorry about that Z. 

I'm going to check out your story.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> It's rather shameful that you weren't perfect...


Hahahaa. Well, I know what you're saying.

After reading MMSL, the sex rank concept got to me. She went up and I went down. I was working from home, let myself go a little bit.. not a lot, but I wasn't the stud she first fell in love with. Was kind of stagnating, not dressing as well as I should, etc., given the posher town we were in. Money was tight, I didn't up my wardrobe. (She looked good in everything.)

I think it's important to maintain the physical attraction. I think I ignored some of her cues and suggestions, so yes I do have some regrets in that department. I never thought she would lose attraction to me - I was naive in that sense.


----------



## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Weird. Shockingly weird.
> 
> Me, I'm still having the regrets that if I had maintained my health, appearance, finances, etc in tip-top shape then I wouldn't be in this position. I'd be sitting on the couch right now kissing my wife and watching our kids play. But you tell me it can happen with all those things intact.
> 
> Did she leave him for the OM?


@SS - Yes she left him for OM, then that of course did not work out, met OM2 (who is 16yrs older than her) and they are still together but it is on the rocks. She just recently came to him wanting to come back to her family after ALL that she put him through.

@Z - hoolysh*!, that is a crazy story. I will have to read up on this. It goes to show that you can treat them like a princess, yet they still want more and are not happy. She will realize what she had and the guilt and remorse will be a b!tch. I hope you are doing well Z.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> SS - You have *no idea* if that is true.
> 
> I've been married 8yrs, together for 10, 6yo daughter. Bought first house 2.5yrs ago. Bought new car this summer for stbxw - she picked it out. I have great, stable career in creative field with ability to work from home. We have little debt and were quickly building savings. Frequently brought home flowers. No beer belly - 5'9" and steady 155lbs. Clean cut. Sex multiple x/wk. Got her a new wedding ring for her last bday - got rid of cheap original setting, found unique antique setting through diamond broker friend and had it altered to fit original stone. She positively beamed with adoration for me. FB posts frequently about how awesome her hubby was and how much she loved me. Bragged about me to work friends, etc.
> 
> ...


That does put a hole in my theory. Yeah, it does sound like you were doing everything right. 

I was never very materialistic and I think she adapted to me in that way but then her materialism started to eke out over time.

I'm sorry for you, Zillard. It looks like you also had a good thing going. I'm surprised your wife didn't wake up out of her fog. I'm going to check out your story.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Hahahaa. Well, I know what you're saying.
> 
> After reading MMSL, the sex rank concept got to me. She went up and I went down. I was working from home, let myself go a little bit.. not a lot, but I wasn't the stud she first fell in love with. Was kind of stagnating, not dressing as well as I should, etc., given the posher town we were in. Money was tight, I didn't up my wardrobe. (She looked good in everything.)
> 
> I think it's important to maintain the physical attraction. I think I ignored some of her cues and suggestions, so yes I do have some regrets in that department. I never thought she would lose attraction to me - I was naive in that sense.


Yes, that can hurt a marriage, but is definitely not a deal breaker and nothing that isn't easily fixable. The BS isn't responsible for breaking the marriage, the DS is. And it's not the BS's fault the DS became a DS. Only a certain type of people sink that low. I know that because I've had many opportunities during my M, as I'm sure you have. *What kept you faithful?*


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @SS - Yes she left him for OM, then that of course did not work out, met OM2 (who is 16yrs older than her) and they are still together but it is on the rocks. She just recently came to him wanting to come back to her family after ALL that she put him through.


Oy. What'd he say?


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @Z - hoolysh*!, that is a crazy story. I will have to read up on this. It goes to show that you can treat them like a princess, yet they still want more and are not happy. She will realize what she had and the guilt and remorse will be a b!tch. I hope you are doing well Z.


See, I treated her too well. That was my problem. Nice guy syndrome. And it hurt the marriage. But again... easily fixable. All she had to do was say "M in trouble". But it most definitely does not excuse her A or make me worthless (even though I felt that way after D-day). 

Recover. Learn. Grow. And eventually let a new, more worthy woman reap the benefits!


----------



## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

@SS - of course he has a healthy ego and is extremely rational, and told her h3ll no! With a smile on his face, calm, cool, and collected.

@Z - it is crazy to me what these women are thinking. Really, your going to give-up this great life for what? My STBXW did not tell me our M was in trouble at at, she fits the WAW syndrome perfectly. Out of the blue, drops it on me. Her background told the whole story, i failed to recognize it.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> I know that because I've had many opportunities during my M, as I'm sure you have. *What kept you faithful?*


LOVE.

Commitment.

Respect.

I was not a fool who would throw away something great for a an hour or two of pleasure. 

However, I was a fool to forget that my wife had cheated on her first H and then eventually left him for me. She pursued me (it's the truth). I feel horrible now knowing what that guy went through.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> See, I treated her too well. That was my problem. Nice guy syndrome. And it hurt the marriage. But again... easily fixable. All she had to do was say "M in trouble". But it most definitely does not excuse her A or make me worthless (even though I felt that way after D-day).
> 
> Recover. Learn. Grow. And eventually let a new, more worthy woman reap the benefits!


Yeah, they never ring the bell. 

But they claim they told you a thousand times. 


So, did you pass through your hate phase?


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> LOVE.
> 
> Commitment.
> 
> Respect.


See! You're a good man. A good man with pain. Pain that will go away. If you work through it and focus on you.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @SS - of course he has a healthy ego and is extremely rational, and told her h3ll no! With a smile on his face, calm, cool, and collected.


Strange how it sometimes works. The WAW tells the BS "too little too late" and then later the tables are turned. 

Good for him. That telling him with a card thing was ridiculous. 

I do feel bad for the kids in these situations. They'd probably like to see the parents reunite but how can the H go back after that? Sad. 

My WW broke it off when I needed her the most.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Yeah, they never ring the bell.
> 
> But they claim they told you a thousand times.
> 
> ...


Almost there. There are still days when I need get out and go to the gun range and unload a 100 rounds. But then I come back home and see her sitting on the couch - and I smile. 

I smile because I feel better. I smile because I know she'll be out of my house soon. I smile because I'm excited to move out of state with my D6. I smile because I'm happy that I don't have to buy presents for someone else on my bday this year. I smile because this chapter of my life is closing and the next one will be an adventure. 

I can't keep that smile 24/7, not with her still here. Eventually I slip back into longing and anger. But that's what TAM, the outdoors, friends, family, and gun ranges are for.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Up, can you articulate that moment when it all clicked? Or even, what let up to it.


Hard to say 'when'.

I finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired.

6+ months, at least.

There is no time limit.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

@SS - i have not hit the hate phase, i think i skipped it and went striaght to the "i dont give a f*&^" phase. I remeber you and are similar in the fact that we both have WAW's. And mine too, did the same thing, she was engage when we met. I should have stayed 10k ft away from that. It was troulbe to begin with. 

As for my buddy, he ended up with like 85% custody (legally 50%) but she just dumps her own kids on him so she can go out and be single with her new BF that is prob going through a MLC.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @SS - i have not hit the hate phase, i think i skipped it and went striaght to the "i dont give a f*&^" phase. I remeber you and are similar in the fact that we both have WAW's. And mine too, did the same thing, she was engage when we met. I should have stayed 10k ft away from that. It was troulbe to begin with.
> 
> As for my buddy, he ended up with like 85% custody (legally 50%) but she just dumps her own kids on him so she can go out and be single with her new BF that is prob going through a MLC.



You can't skip hate/anger. If you are, you're suppressing it...


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> Almost there. There are still days when I need get out and go to the gun range and unload a 100 rounds. But then I come back home and see her sitting on the couch - and I smile.
> 
> I smile because I feel better. I smile because I know she'll be out of my house soon. I smile because I'm excited to move out of state with my D6. I smile because I'm happy that I don't have to buy presents for someone else on my bday this year. I smile because this chapter of my life is closing and the next one will be an adventure.
> 
> I can't keep that smile 24/7, not with her still here. Eventually I slip back into longing and anger. But that's what TAM, the outdoors, friends, family, and gun ranges are for.


You're all smiles, buddy.

What % chance do you put on reconciliation?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you gone after the OM?

Have you expose him for the scumbag he is?

Have you exposed the affair his and her friends and family?

How is he living in your house with your kids?

Have you taken every dine away from her thst you can?

Have you taken action to publically humiliate the OM for being a home wrecker.

That fact your wife cheated on her first husband with you, now on you she has absolutely no morals or empathy, can you get full custody from her? Because she will ruin your children by teaching them horrible selfish behaviors, she should not be a person raising children,


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> I would (and actually do) reflect back the same happiness that she is showing you. If you share a laugh w/ her, then let it be. Don't let her influence your feelings. Be you, be happy - you don't need to be business like if you don't want to. Show her that her destructive ways have no bearings on your moods and attitude.
> 
> Fake it if you have to.



thats exactly what the concealer told me to rg because that happens with us to and exactly , afterwards l kick myself for allowing it.

youknow what she said - SO WHAT . who cares , do whatt you want there's a lot more to this stuff than damn 180's and a dozen others. 
hmm , well that's a relief.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> "Fake it to make it".
> 
> When the situation arises.
> 
> ...



About one line in here - " SHE - still cares what " I " THINK ! 

Why the f'k would that be , she left !

but she does , there's no doubt about it , l could point out dozens of occasions where she's either gone out of her way to impress me with something or looked for my approval in something she's said she did or is doing right then and there. 

but why , why would she give a damn ?????
what's it mean ?????


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> You're all smiles, buddy.
> 
> What % chance do you put on reconciliation?


That's hard to quantify as there are many variables to consider. 

What % chance is there of her working for R?
Depends. She's moving out Saturday but is clearly more hesitant to do so with each passing day. She hasn't packed a thing. But is that because she's afraid of her financial situation? I know she is. She hasn't paid bills or balanced an account in years. Is it because she is afraid of being alone now that her OM is pulling back? I know that she is. She begged him. Is it because she doesn't want to lose her daughter? I know she doesn't, but knows she's better off with me. Is it because she loves me still? I know that she does, but is too afraid to commit because of the hard, hard work it would take to keep me and she doesn't think it's possible for me to ever trust her again. She'll have until Valentine's Day to think on that in her new apartment before D is final. Then she'll have the rest of her life to regret not acting sooner.

What % chance is there of me considering R?
As she is now - 0%. If she proved NC with OM, changed her shift to be more compatible, became a real mom again, went to MC, showed remorse instead of just guilt, and begged me like she's never begged before in her life? I have to answer that one with her infamous line, "I don't know". I do still care deeply for her. But I don't need her. And I will not wait for something that is not probable. 

I can do better. I can feel what I had with her with someone else - and now I know how to pick better. I know how to keep it healthy. I know the next one can be longer and more fulfilling than the last. Because *I'm* growing. So in a way, she did me a favor.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Have you gone after the OM?
> 
> Have you expose him for the scumbag he is?
> 
> ...


Everyone knows about their relationship but I found out her family (her sister at least) was not aware that OM moved in. 

There's no more left to do but divorce and agree on custody. (I'll never get full custody. This is not even a topic worth going into.)


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

The feeling of hate is still going strong this morning. It's more a feeling of cold hate than hot hate. 

Now I start to wonder, "Do I regret ever meeting her?". If this is the brutal end of our story, now it all seems like such a waste of time. (Our kids excluded, of course). 

I fundamentally don't understand a person who could screw over other people like she did and act as if it's all a just matter of circumstances, disappointments in me and meeting OM. That she's sorry but she fell out of love and it "just happens in life. You won't be the first person to be cheated on and left, and you won't be the last" (paraphrasing). What a POS.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Now I start to wonder, "Do I regret ever meeting her?". If this is the brutal end of our story, now it all seems like such a waste of time. (Our kids excluded, of course).


Did YOU enjoy the marriage? Did you have good times? Did you love? Were you happy?

Why would that ever be a waste of time? Her leaving is a setback, sure, but does it erase all of that? You lived the best you knew how, right? And now can learn how to live even better! Without this, would you? 

Don't fall into her trap of rewriting the marriage history.

I've been trying to think this way - stbxw didn't throw away the last 10 years, she threw away the next 40-50! But I'm not. My next 40-50 will be even better than they would have been.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> Did YOU enjoy the marriage? Did you have good times? Did you love? Were you happy?


Yes, yes and yes. 



zillard said:


> Why would that ever be a waste of time? Her leaving is a setback, sure, but does it erase all of that? You lived the best you knew how, right? And now can learn how to live even better! Without this, would you?


I could have been more in tune with both our needs and learned to let go of more things, but overall I feel I lived it well. 



zillard said:


> Don't fall into her trap of rewriting the marriage history.


Oh, hell no. 



zillard said:


> I've been trying to think this way - stbxw didn't throw away the last 10 years, she threw away the next 40-50! But I'm not. My next 40-50 will be even better than they would have been.


That's a better perspective. 

The dynamic of my relationship was different than yours, I think. Your wife seems more confused about what to do than mine was. And at this point it seems like you have strength and power in the relationship.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

staystrong, we all could have done things differently - both sides of the coin. But this is where we are now; and where we are now, won't be where we will be in the future. You are going to claim that same strength and power. I know this. Have more faith in yourself - you are a stronger individual than you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks ReGroup.

Here's an update: 

This past week I've been ignoring my STBXW over email or responding very curtly to her. Today I had a Skype date with my daughters and my wife starts to ask little questions about my upcoming holiday plans. I dodge the questions and just let her know where I'll be on Xmas. She's gotten the sense all week I'm not into communicating with her, I'm sure. So on the Skype call she says/asks: "Oh, so you're in your hate phase now?". LOL, she's so annoying because she wants to let me know she knows. My response was simply to tell her to please go get our daughters because that was the reason for the call.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

All of this really makes me want to f*ck her silly. It's a weird turn on.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Thanks ReGroup.
> 
> Here's an update:
> 
> This past week I've been ignoring my STBXW over email or responding very curtly to her. Today I had a Skype date with my daughters and my wife starts to ask little questions about my upcoming holiday plans. I dodge the questions and just let her know where I'll be on Xmas. She's gotten the sense all week I'm not into communicating with her, I'm sure. So on the Skype call she says/asks: "Oh, so you're in your hate phase now?". LOL, she's so annoying because she wants to let me know she knows. My response was simply to tell her to please go get our daughters because that was the reason for the call.





staystrong said:


> All of this really makes me want to f*ck her silly. It's a weird turn on.


Actually.

This is 150% codependency.

Your actions got 'noticed' by her.

Which is exactly what you wanted.

To see if she still 'cared'.

Indifference.

Awareness.

Self Regulation.

Those are a few of the things that should be worked on.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Actually Up,

I disagree on this one. I would have preferred she had said nothing at all and shown a little respect by doing so. Me wanting to f*ck her is more of a power trip thing. 

She then tries to chat me later asking if I wanted to watch a video she made featuring her music. 

:rofl: 

What a narcissist! It's kind of sad really. The last thing I want to do is indulge you and your fantasies about yourself. The fact that you would ask that of your husband whom YOU LEFT FOR A MUSICIAN is utterly pathetic. 

I ignored the chat.

...

I'm so worried for my kids.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Actually Up,
> 
> I disagree on this one. I would have preferred she had said nothing at all and shown a little respect by doing so. Me wanting to f*ck her is more of a *power trip thing*.
> 
> ...


You go from hating the 'mother of your children'.

To wanting to have sex with her.

Oddly enough.

It was after she paid somewhat attention to what you were doing.

You may disagree.

That's okay.

I still stand by what I said.

It's natural (and rather predictable) that she would suggest doing what she did.

Your action / reaction to it is natural as well.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Actually.
> 
> This is 150% codependency.
> 
> ...


I had this same reaction the first night my stbxw started bawling and apologizing - admitting *partially* to what she had done. And I noticed that it was unhealthy as why the h*ll should I be turned on by a woman admitting she'd done me wrong!?!

Check yourself, Strong. Continue 180 and focus on you. Quit putting importance in her validation. You can. And it will change your reaction.

Weeks later as we were reviewing D papers stbxw kept sitting down half way in my lap. And the reaction started again as she became emotional and weepy. But I recognized it that time and immediately diverted her (and my) attention back to the papers. Business. And it was so much easier to control, even with her so physically close. Signature collected. Done. Left her sitting there and went to bed without saying a word to her. Slept like a baby.

Now I'm to the point where she gets emotional and I can just chuckle (out loud) at her stupidity, denial and circular logic. No turn on. Also much less disgust. 

I agree with UpnOver. This is co-dependency.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

zillard said:


> I had this same reaction the first night my stbxw started bawling and apologizing - admitting *partially* to what she had done. *And I noticed that it was unhealthy as why the h*ll should I be turned on by a woman admitting she'd done me wrong!?!*
> 
> Check yourself, Strong. Continue 180 and focus on you. Quit putting importance in her validation. You can. And it will change your reaction.
> 
> ...


You were 'turned on' due to the sense of 'control' you had once again.

As for the laughing out loud.

Do you do this in front of her?


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> As for the laughing out loud.
> 
> Do you do this in front of her?


I do, yes. Usually when she's blame shifting and re-writing history. Drives her nuts.

When she's "apologizing" I mirror - repeat what she said but with a reality spin. "So, you are saying you feel bad for X" where X is not what she said but what I think she meant.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Up,

I would have agreed with you two months ago when I was trying the 180 to get noticed by her. That's not where I am now. This is not a person I could go back to anymore. I don't think a brief sexual attraction means I'm co-dependent. It felt more like a "grudge f*ck" feeling. Not really a feeling I would want to have with a wife I care about. 

I also laughed out loud at times in front of my wife. For the same reasons as Zillard. What does it signify to you?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> When she's "apologizing" I mirror - repeat what she said but with a reality spin. "So, you are saying you feel bad for X" where X is not what she said but what I think she meant.


That's awesome!

How well did that tactic work? Would she then agree with you.

I think I was too much in the BS Fog to have used that when in mattered.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Up,
> 
> I would have agreed with you two months ago when I was trying the 180 to get noticed by her. That's not where I am now. This is not a person I could go back to anymore. *I don't think a brief sexual attraction means I'm co-dependent*. It felt more like a "grudge f*ck" feeling. Not really a feeling I would want to have with a wife I care about.
> 
> I also laughed out loud at times in front of my wife. For the same reasons as Zillard. *What does it signify to you?*


Codependency doesn't simply 'go away'.

I am codependent still.

There are times where I have to step back and ask myself why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Feeling what I'm feeling.

Self Awareness.

As for the laughing in front of them.

That's complete lack of indifference.

There is absolutely no reason to show such behavior.

Stirring the pot.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> That's awesome!
> 
> How well did that tactic work? Would she then agree with you.
> 
> I think I was too much in the BS Fog to have used that when in mattered.


It has worked at getting her to admit fault without actually saying the words. Her response is usually a sheepish "yeah".


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

zillard said:


> I do, yes. Usually when she's blame shifting and re-writing history. Drives her nuts.
> 
> When she's "apologizing" I mirror - repeat what she said but with a reality spin. "So, you are saying you feel bad for X" where X is not what she said but what I think she meant.


Agreeing with them so they feel that they are being heard would be more effective.

Goes against everything you feel 'should' be said or done.

When you agree with things (that do not actually change anything), they will no longer have anything to complain about.

Ex - "I have no money to do X, Y, Z".

You - "Yes, things are pretty tough financially".



Ex - "I really hate how you don't talk to me anymore"

You - "I'm sorry you feel that way".


Ex - "I want you to start dropping off our son 2 hours earlier than we agreed to."

You - "I'm not okay with that".


No reason to be laughing, yelling, name calling, mocking and so forth.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

zillard said:


> It has worked at getting her to *admit fault* without actually saying the words. Her response is usually a sheepish "yeah".


So you have to manipulate to get the response you want to hear?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> It has worked at getting her to admit fault without actually saying the words. Her response is usually a sheepish "yeah".


What's an example? Just curious.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Agreeing with them so they feel that they are being heard would be more effective.
> 
> Goes against everything you feel 'should' be said or done.
> 
> ...



This is a good approach but very hard to implement when you are the extreme rollercoaster. It's something that almost no ones unless they've been educated to do so. 

I definitely fell prey to the laughing, yelling, name calling and so forth. Tried to avoid it but sometimes it had to come out. I should have separated myself from her during those times but I see now I was so messed up from lack of sleep and anxiety/depression that I could not help myself from seeking a scrap with her. It was counter productive as you indicate.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> As for the laughing in front of them.
> 
> That's complete lack of indifference.
> 
> ...


It's not an exaggerated, loud HAHAHA. It's a smirk and slight chuckle. It is not meant to get a reaction from her, but I'd be blind not to notice her reaction. It happens instinctively, because the crap that comes out of her mouth is sooo ridiculous.

It may not be indifference, but it is funny. I guess I wouldn't find it funny if I was completely indifferent though, would I?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> It's not an exaggerated, loud HAHAHA. It's a smirk and slight chuckle. It is not meant to get a reaction from her, but I'd be blind not to notice her reaction. It happens instinctively, because the crap that comes out of her mouth is sooo ridiculous.
> 
> It may not be indifference, but it is funny. I guess I wouldn't find it funny if I was completely indifferent though, would I?


I agree. It's sometimes a reflex.

But now I am prepared so I can control when I want to. But then she doesn't say half of the wacked out stuff she used to say.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> This is a good approach but very hard to implement when you are the extreme rollercoaster. It's something that almost no ones unless they've been educated to do so.
> 
> I definitely fell prey to the laughing, yelling, name calling and so forth. Tried to avoid it but sometimes it had to come out. I should have separated myself from her during those times but I see now I was so messed up from lack of sleep and anxiety/depression that I could not help myself from seeking a scrap with her. It was counter productive as you indicate.


Mistakes will be made.

That's without question.

I made so many, well beyond what you guys have expressed here so far.

The thing is.

When will the excuses stop for your own behavior?

It's all on you.

No one else.



zillard said:


> It's not an exaggerated, loud HAHAHA. It's a smirk and slight chuckle. It is not meant to get a reaction from her, but I'd be blind not to notice her reaction. It happens instinctively, because the crap that comes out of her mouth is sooo ridiculous.
> 
> 
> It may not be indifference, but it is funny. I guess I wouldn't find it funny if I was completely indifferent though, would I?


I bet my left nut that you would notice an eyebrow twitch of hers when you said something you felt was rather important.

Indifference doesn't mean you wouldn't find it funny.

I find a lot of the things my ex says rather humors.

I also can get angry about it.

Upset.

Stressed out.

Furious.

The thing is though, what good does it do me?

Why ruin my day, night or time out with friends because of something she said that has absolutely no effect on my life.



staystrong said:


> I agree. It's sometimes a reflex.
> 
> But now I am prepared so I can control when I want to. *But then she doesn't say half of the wacked out stuff she used to say.*


So.

Manipulation to blame shift then?

As long as "she" is saying or doing whacked out things (possibly caused by you on purpose) then she is at fault for the stresses in your life?

If you take out the comments, laughs and pot stirring on your behalf.

Then you would have nothing to focus on but yourself.

Codependency.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Okay Up,

I'm reading about co-dependency. Symptoms of Codependency | Psych Central

I see it as very relevant to my life right now, and especially during the affair and post D-day. It's a very broad concept ... maybe you are able to discern more because you've learned more about it in yourself, but I'd be willing to bet MY left nut that every minute action can't be categorized as co-dependent or not.

I'll continue reading. This looks very useful.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> So you have to manipulate to get the response you want to hear?


I would say it more of an interpretation. She is terrible at communicating her feelings. It has worked for her to admit fault because I'm using the approach when she's trying to apologize - which is when she has a harder time effectively expressing what she means. 

She's extremely self-deprecating in her original statements which I turn around and narrow down to what she has done rather than who she is. 

Example: In a discussion about her missing D6s award ceremony at school she says, "I'm a terrible mom". 

"Do you mean you feel terrible for letting down D6 by missing her event?"

Example: When discussing her A with posOM she says, "I hate how I've completely ruined you".

"Are you trying to say that you are sorry for causing me this much pain?"


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> So.
> 
> Manipulation to blame shift then?
> 
> ...


Well, she is at fault for the stresses in my life. Yes. That's just a fact. 

It's not healthy to engage her on anything anymore. Yes, she still has an emotional effect on me, but the tonality has changed. You're right - when I do more for myself I think less about her and it affects me less.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Okay Up,
> 
> I'm reading about co-dependency. Symptoms of Codependency | Psych Central
> 
> ...


Nothing like a friendly wager of nuts to begin a Friday night. 

Honest truth.

I have never read a book.

The only thing I did outside of TAM, IC and friend / family support was listen to the 8 disk workshop on Awareness by Anthony De Mello.

What I say to you is not out of "You're doing this ALL wrong".

I have a habit of pointing out what I feel is in need of correction.

This method was done to me by at least 2 of my very knowledgeable supporters on TAM when I was going through my rough times.

I could say 100 solid, positive and on the right path things.

But.

The only thing that would be highlighted and talked about was the one line that was way off course.

I would get angry for them not validating my good behavior.

Eventually I saw why they did it the way they did.

--

You are correct.

Not every minute can be categorized with "codependency".

Every minute can be categorized though.

There is a reason for everything.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> I would say it more of an interpretation. She is terrible at communicating her feelings. It has worked for her to admit fault because I'm using the approach when she's trying to apologize - which is when she has a harder time effectively expressing what she means.
> 
> She's extremely self-deprecating in her original statements which I turn around and narrow down to what she has done rather than who she is.
> 
> ...


You have good composure. 

I was not in a frame of mind where I would have been able to redirect that way. 

But then my case was different. She showed much less remorse and blamed me for pushing her into the affair. Also made a lot of foggy statements about marriage, commitment, etc. 

My reaction at one point - which was not good - was to demand some sort of justice. To demand she recognize her crime. It was just me being hurt and needy.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Up, just out of curiosity - if you are willing to share ... What has been your ex-wife's reaction to your indifference? I don't mean in a wanting to reconcile type of way but the way you both are co-parenting. Is she pursuing a friendship w/ you? Is she upset? I know that it isn't any of your concern now - but it'd be interesting to know what she's thinking about your change.

I ask because indifference its still ways away for many of us.

I have had past relationships where I have reached indifference but this is a whole new ball game - the mothers our children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Nothing like a friendly wager of nuts to begin a Friday night.
> 
> This method was done to me by at least 2 of my very knowledgeable supporters on TAM when I was going through my rough times.
> 
> ...



This makes sense. 

I appreciate what you are doing. Maybe I should've said that earlier!

Did you want to reconcile with your wife?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

ReGroup said:


> Up, just out of curiosity - if you are willing to share ... What has been your ex-wife's reaction to your indifference? I don't mean in a wanting to reconcile type of way but the way you both are co-parenting. Is she pursuing a friendship w/ you? Is she upset? I know that it isn't any of your concern now - but it'd be interesting to know what she's thinking about your change.
> 
> I ask because indifference its still ways away for many of us.
> 
> ...


Ditto that request.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

zillard said:


> I would say it more of an interpretation. She is terrible at communicating her feelings. It has worked for her to admit fault because I'm using the approach when she's trying to apologize - which is when she has a harder time effectively expressing what she means.
> 
> She's extremely self-deprecating in her original statements which I turn around and narrow down to what she has done rather than who she is.
> 
> ...


You're leading the witness.

True remorse would come from her and only her.

Without a single action on your own to cause such a thing.

Accepting this is rather important.

It's attached to hoping and assuming.

Which is also not recommended.

Ex - "I hate how I've completely ruined you"

You - "I'm sorry you feel that way."

Ex - "I'm a terrible mom."

You - "I'm sorry you feel that way."

There is no need to say anything else.

She expresses her feelings of guilt in her comments like that.

The more talking you do, the greater chance of validating her feelings.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> This makes sense.
> 
> I appreciate what you are doing. Maybe I should've said that earlier!
> 
> Did you want to reconcile with your wife?


I only say this because at times I can see how people react to the constant bombardment when they aren't told what they want to hear.

Others are free to think and feel what they will about myself.

I'm okay with that.

Yes. I did want to reconcile with my ex wife.

From the time it all started, up until a few months ago.

Gradually I started to finally see what was really going on and stop making excuses.

Stopped hoping.

Stopped assuming.

Dropped the delusion.

I had glimpses throughout the months.

Continued to ignore them.

Truth is.

Who I am now, was always there.

Who I WANTED to be.

I was scared sh!tless of what others would think of me.

That I would be alone forever.

How wrong I was.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You're leading the witness.
> 
> True remorse would come from her and only her.
> 
> ...



Hmm.. I really agree with this. 

Not sure how a marital therapist would approach it, but this is an interesting approach. 

What did you mean by "The more talking you do, the greater chance of validating her feelings." You mean guilt? How does one "validate" guilt?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> I only say this because at times I can see how people react to the constant bombardment when they aren't told what they want to hear.
> 
> Others are free to think and feel what they will about myself.
> 
> ...


You words are spellbinding!

I like that you changed your name from UpnDown to UpnOver. Nice.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You're leading the witness.
> 
> True remorse would come from her and only her.
> 
> ...


Good points. I have recognized that she is feeling very guilty but not very remorseful. And I suppose I have been hindering that with the approach above. "you are sorry for causing me this much pain" probably does validate her belief that she's ruined me. 

But I've also followed up by telling her that she can not ruin me as she does not have that power. My healing and happiness is up to me. Yet, I can also see how by telling her that I am looking for her validation that I am strong. 

So I guess, when in doubt, STFU and listen. Not my strong suit.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

zillard said:


> Good points. I have recognized that she is feeling very guilty but not very remorseful. And I suppose I have been hindering that with the approach above. "you are sorry for causing me this much pain" probably does validate her belief that she's ruined me.
> 
> *But I've also followed up by telling her that she can not ruin me as she does not have that power. My healing and happiness is up to me.* Yet, I can also see how by telling her that I am looking for her validation that I am strong.
> 
> So I guess, when in doubt, STFU and listen. Not my strong suit.


Those who think they know, say they know.

Those who actually do, don't.

There is no reason to tell her that "I'm in control of my own happiness" other than to puff out your chest.

She will see it without you having to say anything about it.

If she does?

Who cares.

In regards to the validating.

Let me clarity.

By her getting validation all it does is continue the cycle.

The definition of insanity.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Hmm.. I really agree with this.
> 
> *Not sure how a marital therapist would approach it*, but this is an interesting approach.
> 
> What did you mean by "The more talking you do, the greater chance of validating her feelings." You mean guilt? How does one "validate" guilt?


They wouldn't.

This is about moving on in life.


----------



## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

@SS - this is why i said as hard as it is, stop hating your stbxw, she is still controlling you with your feeling of hate.

Upn is right. I understand the stages of a D, i do not hate my stbxw, she is still the mother of my children. Rather i am indifferent. 

If we R on my terms great, if not thats great too! 

I have come to realize that there are plenty of beautiful women out there that have values and morals. 

My stbxw will crash, or she will spend the rest of her life on the carousel of failed relationships. Her history spells it out.

Every time i talk to stbxw it is "I understand that feeling" or "i am sorry you feel that way".

She asked "i cannot afford daycare anymore and i want to pull them from daycare" My response" I understand, times are tuff and daycare can be expensive"

I let her do most of the talking. Then if it is important enough, i reconfirm our conversation through email. 

Cool, Calm, composed


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @SS - this is why i said as hard as it is, stop hating your stbxw, she is still controlling you with your feeling of hate.
> 
> Upn is right. I understand the stages of a D, i do not hate my stbxw, she is still the mother of my children. Rather i am indifferent.
> 
> Cool, Calm, composed



I can remain cool, calm and composed in front of her.

But I need to feel these feelings of hate until I don't want them anymore. **** that lying, cheating, manipulating sack of ****. 

I just visited the Doc Cool forums and realize again how much cheaters are simply pieces of human trash who must have their ego stroked constantly. They think they're so damn clever and sexy. What they are contemptible self-absorbed losers who don't understand real love and communication. It's pathetic.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I can remain cool, calm and composed in front of her.
> 
> But I need to feel these feelings of hate until I don't want them anymore. **** that lying, cheating, manipulating sack of ****.
> 
> I just visited the Doc Cool forums and realize again how much cheaters are simply pieces of human trash who must have their ego stroked constantly. They think they're so damn clever and sexy. What they are contemptible self-absorbed losers who don't understand real love and communication. It's pathetic.


How often do you see myself refer to ex spouses in such ways?

When talking about my ex (or any ex on the forums).

Do I slander her?

Any idea as to why this is?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> @SS - this is why i said as hard as it is, stop hating your stbxw, *she is still controlling you with your feeling of hate.*
> 
> Upn is right. I understand the stages of a D, i do not hate my stbxw, she is still the mother of my children. Rather i am indifferent.
> 
> ...


She isn't controlling anything.

It's all on him.

A heavy burden to bear when one no longer can blame the other.

But it's doable.


----------



## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I can remain cool, calm and composed in front of her.
> 
> But I need to feel these feelings of hate until I don't want them anymore. **** that lying, cheating, manipulating sack of ****.
> 
> I just visited the Doc Cool forums and realize again how much cheaters are simply pieces of human trash who must have their ego stroked constantly. They think they're so damn clever and sexy. What they are contemptible self-absorbed losers who don't understand real love and communication. It's pathetic.



yep agree ss. it's so pathetic it's just sickening. my family , my gorgeous daughter , this incredible thing my wife and l did have for so long the life we'd had- and yeah she calls it all that too , gone. destroyed .
cruel , selfish , incomprehensible !

l lost it with her this morning when she dropped of my daughter.
slammed that fg car door and came very close to spitting in her face , that's the disgust l feel .


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> yep agree ss. it's so pathetic it's just sickening. my family , my gorgeous daughter , this incredible thing my wife and l did have for so - and yeah she calls it that too , gone. destroyed .
> cruel , selfish , incomprehensible !
> 
> *l lost it with her this morning when she dropped of my daughter.
> slammed that fg car door and came very close to spitting in her face , that's the disgust l feel * .


You slammed the car door in front of your daughter?

If so.

That's what you should find disgusting.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> How often do you see myself refer to ex spouses in such ways?
> 
> When talking about my ex (or any ex on the forums).
> 
> ...



I see what you mean.

There's a lot of commiseration here and it becomes a sport. There's a lot of "See how crazy/hurtful/mean my ex-spouse was to me? Oh yours, too? Let's swap stories" kind of thing.

But it's not healing. It's not growth. It's not going forward. 

Slandering the other person only demeans you, and cuts away at your integrity.

All I can say is I'm in the most pain I've ever been in my entire life. 5 months out from D-Day and it still hurts incredibly. I'm so tired of the pain, and I feel it will never stop. I have so many regrets and I still beat myself up over the "What ifs". I still carry her with me wherever I go. I feel so completely rejected and run over by this woman, even if I know it can't all be about my issues. 

Perhaps I need to be on medication. Maybe my frame of mind would change.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I see what you mean.
> 
> There's a lot of commiseration here and it becomes a sport. There's a lot of "See how crazy/hurtful/mean my ex-spouse was to me? Oh yours, too? Let's swap stories" kind of thing.
> 
> ...


I see it differently.

In regards to 'slandering'.

Now, I will admit. I have dropped a few 'unkind' words when speaking about my ex from time to time.

I try my best not to make it a habit though.

It attaches unhealthy feelings to the words.

Subconsciously it will get you worked up again.

I refer to mine as my ex, ex wife, children's mother.

The pain will end when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.

That is completely up to you.

If you have lived your life without medication.

Why start now?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> If you have lived your life without medication.
> 
> Why start now?


I would start now because I want to make the right decisions going forward. The first three months after D-Day I was not making good decisions because I was depressed, anxious, exhausted etc. I made things worse for myself.. I don't think are thinking straight when you are in this depressed state. I'm at month 5 and I still have depression.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I would start now because I want to make the right decisions going forward. The first three months after D-Day I was not making good decisions because I was depressed, anxious, exhausted etc. I made things worse for myself.. I don't think are thinking straight when you are in this depressed state. I'm at month 5 and I still have depression.


Start making the changes in YOU.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver,

I wanted to thank you for repeated input on this thread so far. It's really helped me put some things in perspective. 

..

I still feel this need to put a big wall between her and myself. I don't want her to feel like I am friend in any way. I don't even want to be friendly with her. Like I said before, I feel like it would be betraying myself. If she tells me Merry Xmas, I will say "Did the kids have a good Xmas?". I can't even bring myself to say Merry Xmas to her. Right now, to me she is a murderer. She killed a good relationship, she killed our kids' basic concept of family and love. She moved OM in a few days after I left, for Pete's sake. It's foul.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Start making the changes in YOU.


I've been doing more sport. Socializing more. These kinds of things. 

But let's face it.. my head hurts, I obsess over the past, and I have problems with sleep.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> UpnOver,
> 
> I wanted to thank you for repeated input on this thread so far. It's really helped me put some things in perspective.
> 
> ...


You are far too tied up in the labels of society.

If the relationship was good.

You would not be here.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I've been doing more sport. Socializing more. These kinds of things.
> 
> But let's face it.. my head hurts, *I obsess over the past, and I have problems with sleep.*


Physical activity is good.

The bold parts are what you need to focus on.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You are far too tied up in the labels of society.
> 
> If the relationship was good.
> 
> You would not be here.


I don't know what to believe about the implosion of our marriage. Certainly the real problems began when she met OM, even before their affair began. How much was going on in her head prior to that, I'll never know.

I think affairs happen in overall good relationships. I think there's evidence to support that. 

A married couple can be having a down period in which one of the partners is not completely happy in the relationship. It doesn't mean he or she wants to end it. Maybe attention starts to go outside the marriage and it is weakened. She lets her walls down and lets attraction lead her astray. Sometimes the disloyal partner feel they made the biggest mistake in their life, sometimes they do not feel much regret. My wife is more the latter, so yes I have to question who she is and what we had before she met OM. 

I believe an intact family with healthy loving biological parents is the best situation possible. I won't go into reasons why - I think the advantages are fairly obvious.

Moving OM that soon is confusing to kids. Are you saying you disagree?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> The bold parts are what you need to focus on.


I think meds would help with that. People who are on them continue to recommend them to me.

I need to wait until I get back home to get them.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I don't know what to believe about the implosion of our marriage. Certainly the real problems began when she met OM, even before their affair began. How much was going on in her head prior to that, I'll never know.
> 
> I think affairs happen in overall good relationships. I think there's evidence to support that.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter.

All of it doesn't matter.

What matters is reality.

She left you for someone else.

As for children.

They benefit from the most from healthy parents.

You cannot control how she will parent.

The only thing you can control is you.

Having unhappy parents in a bad marriage will not do any good for the children.

Moving the OM in so soon is not good for children.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I think meds would help with that. People who are on them continue to recommend them to me.
> 
> I need to wait until I get back home to get them.


That choice is completely up to you.

I will not 'recommend' that you pump yourself full of drugs so you can half deal with reality while the medications deals with the rest.

This. Is my personal opinion on them.

Well aware that there are people in the world that do require medication to function properly.

Dealing with a divorce through drugs, I do not agree with.

My family has a long history of deep depression.

My mother spent time in and out of the hospital with it.

She also tried to kill herself once.

My father spent time in and out of the hospital with it.

I once woke up when I was young.

Went to the kitchen to get some water.

I saw my father cutting his wrists with his car keys.

Scribbling "DIE DIE DIE" on paper.

Before I was 18 they pumped me full of antidepressants.

It did nothing for me and as soon as I turned 18 I was off of them.

I 'battle' depression as well.

Although. I do not let it define me.

I may feel depressed for the day.

I refuse to tell myself I will forever be depressed.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

You had a bad experience - it was forced on you. Maybe you'd be willing to try again on your own terms. 

Me, I tried them once this month but did not like the side effects. I will try again.

I want something to help me with the suicidal ideation. I don't want those thoughts in my head. 

The idea that my wife is making love to some other man drives me to brink of insanity. 

I'm forced to question myself as a husband and a lover. I did not deserve this self inquisition. As you said, we can't expect ourselves to be perfect, but I want to know what was missing for her. I know you'll tell me this is not important but it's important to me, dammit.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> You had a bad experience - it was forced on you. Maybe you'd be willing to try again on your own terms.
> 
> Me, I tried them once this month but did not like the side effects. I will try again.
> 
> ...


You will never know.

Even if she did tell you and you didn't like it.

Doubt you would believe her.

"It MUST be something else!"

Are you in IC?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

No, I'm not in IC because I'm on travel.

I will start when I get back. 

Can you summarize your story, Up? Why'd your wife leave you, who by all accounts seems to be a good man?

(Okay, read your story in your new thread.)


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

(This is more like a journal entry.)

Well, here I am on Xmas Eve Day .. waking up to the same thoughts. 

I am disgusted with her as a person. 

I wish I'd had kids with someone else. Someone decent.

I think she may be a narcissist. 

I'm wondering again, "Who did I marry?". Good memories are starting to be fuzzy and fade. My present anger towards her taints them all. It makes me wonder if our marriage was even a good one. I thought it was, other people thought it was, too. But how could someone turn on their spouse like that? 

It's almost as if she began to hate me, resent me. I guess she did. 

Now it's my turn to hate and resent her. I feel I always will. For what she did and how she made me feel about myself. She's changed the way I think about the world, the way I think about women. 

Has anybody experienced this deep hatred for the long-term?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> (This is more like a journal entry.)
> 
> Well, here I am on Xmas Eve Day .. waking up to the same thoughts.
> 
> ...


Anyone who wants to obtain happiness, doesn't.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Your wife left because she needed you to provide her happiness. You did for a while. However, you can't keep it up forever. A woman who cannot depend on herself for happiness is bound to leave at some time. My wife is of the same mold. I kept her happy for a long time until one day I didn't anymore.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Your wife left because she needed you to provide her happiness. You did for a while. However, you can't keep it up forever. A woman who cannot depend on herself for happiness is bound to leave at some time. My wife is of the same mold. I kept her happy for a long time until one day I didn't anymore.


You cannot 'provide' happiness.

Happiness is all about self awareness.

Depending on it will also cause nothing but problems.

Not allowing yourself to experience it without expectations will never bring happiness.

Enjoying the short term, if only for 5 minutes happiness is where it's at.

Enjoy it.

Leave it in the moment.

Move on.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Your wife left because she needed you to provide her happiness. You did for a while. However, you can't keep it up forever. A woman who cannot depend on herself for happiness is bound to leave at some time. My wife is of the same mold. I kept her happy for a long time until one day I didn't anymore.


This is why I say to myself "Why even try?".

The worst part right now for me is the mind movies. I suppressed them for months and now I think all the time about her and him having sex. And it makes me seethe. SEETHE. But I can't get it out of my head. Driving in the car, sitting on the couch, eating dinner with friends, .. it's still there. I can't believe she was so "into it". Now I think our sex wasn't dirty/rough enough and sometimes that's what happens when you have young kids: you tend to see your wife as the wholesome mother, not as the sexpot she wants to be. I held MYSELF back from getting what I wanted sexually at the end. I just want a re-do. In my head, it's always trying to have the re-do. 

I think this is going to stay with me for a long time and I need some serious IC. (Starting in January)


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You cannot 'provide' happiness.
> 
> Happiness is all about self awareness.
> 
> ...


I can't do it, Up. 

I'm focused on the animal, primal side of things. 

She slept with him. ANGER - My woman, my "property"
She left me for him. ANGER/SORROW/PAIN - Just dropped down in social hierarchy. Ego deflated. 
She's splitting the family. ANGER/SADNESS - Broken dreams, no future together. No longer head of household. Been replaced in part as role of provider, protector. 

There's something very basic about this. It's easy to see why people fight and kill over these situations.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I can't do it, Up.


You can as soon as you decide to.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I can't do it, Up.
> 
> I'm focused on the animal, primal side of things.
> 
> ...


You believed that your wife was your property?

What a horrid way to view another life.

Social Hierarchy?

Yeah, because basing your personal self worth, feelings and 'ego' on a social standing within such a society is healthy.

Splitting the family?

So you'd rather live in a delusion over reality? Head of household means jack squat.

There is only one thing I agree with in this response.

There is something very basic about this.

You just refuse to see it for what it is.

Poor little Victim Staystrong.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Whether you like it or not, this is sort of how it goes. People will think "Well, he couldn't make her happy." Just like you said. Well then why are you also telling people not to blame themselves? It sounds like a mixed message. 

They'll tell you they love you, but it's conditional love, isn't it? And you may not even realize the conditions because they may not tell you.

What I'm saying is it's not a light thing to cheat on someone, leave them and split up a family. It's a freaking atrocity, mate. And because they weren't as happy as they could possibly be? That's the real "oh, woe is me". **** up your loved one's lives to get your kicks? Those people don't deserve our indifference, they deserve our hate.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Whether you like it or not, this is sort of how it goes. People will think "Well, he couldn't make her happy." Just like you said. Well then why are you also telling people not to blame themselves? It sounds like a mixed message.
> 
> They'll tell you they love you, but it's conditional love, isn't it? And you may not even realize the conditions because they may not tell you.
> 
> What I'm saying is it's not a light thing to cheat on someone, leave them and split up a family. It's a freaking atrocity, mate. And because they weren't as happy as they could possibly be? That's the real "oh, woe is me". **** up your loved one's lives to get your kicks? Those people don't deserve our indifference, they deserve our hate.


Basing your thoughts on the mass audience who spends most of there lives completely asleep and unaware of themselves will get you no where.

This is where self awareness comes in.

Being attached to labels will destroy you.

Getting TOLD what is and isn't good in the eyes of the masses.

That is how you want to live your life?

Do you NEED 20+ people telling not only you, but each other that you're such a great outstanding father and man.

NEEDING that outside source of c0ckjerk is not healthy.

Agreed.

Being cheated on is a horrible thing.

Living in an unhealthy marriage and being delusional to the facts that it's better to end it then carry on when it's not fixable is even more unhealthy.

You owe them nothing.

You owe yourself indifference.

So you do not continue down this path.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Whether you like it or not, this is sort of how it goes. People will think "Well, he couldn't make her happy." Just like you said. Well then why are you also telling people not to blame themselves? It sounds like a mixed message.


Well the fact is you COULD NOT make her happy. Never could. No matter what. 

But that has nothing to do with you. She is responsible for her own feelings. Just as you are. She did not MAKE you angry. You FEEL angry because of how YOU view what she did. 

By feeding your anger, you are neglecting yourself. 

Try to let go what you do not control.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

My awareness is telling me that my wife and I indeed have a good relationship and all of our issues could have been worked out with better communication. That is what is so painful. So it's not me being the victim. I think she's a victim, too, as are the children. But she does not see if the same way. She does not regret the affair.

And yes, I am angry. For a long time to come, I think. Maybe I should just stop writing in this thread until I make some progress. Because right now I feel like it's better to stay angry. I don't feel I even have a choice. I just AM angry.

Indifference sounds like it normally would take years if you were in a LTR. I don't know how you got there so quickly.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> Well the fact is you COULD NOT make her happy. Never could. No matter what.


What do you mean?

Of course we make other people happy. If it weren't the case, we would not seek the company of our favorite people, and we would not leave one person for another. "He/she makes me feel so good."

I made her happy for many years until ... until I didn't. 



zillard said:


> But that has nothing to do with you. She is responsible for her own feelings. Just as you are. She did not MAKE you angry. You FEEL angry because of how YOU view what she did.


I wasn't angry before she cheated and left me! That makes me angry. She made me angry (and sad, etc.) through her actions. There was an expectation of trust, support, sexual exclusivity, etc. She broke the trust to not break each other's hearts. 

Whatever it is you are saying, I just don't "get it". I don't see how anyone could not be angry in this situation. What is the root of anger?


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I think another thing that plays into this is that I am forced to live in my wife's country if I want to be around my kids (which of course I do). On top of that, I won't be able to get citizenship through marriage anymore which means I will have wait several more years for that benefit. And on top of that, she was prepared to leave me even when I didn't have an income. (I'm employed now.) And what did I do to her that I deserve that? Not make it so she felt completely fulfilled? C'mon. That was on her more than me. Evidently she's not a very good person.

What I'm trying to say is that I was a good husband and she was reckless. I want other people we know to shame her because that's what she deserves. Otherwise she will continue to feel validated and make crappy decisions like moving the OM in right after I left. 

Zillard, I think you don't hate your wife because you feel sorry for her. (PS - I'm going to hop to your thread to see how the move out went). 

I know you guys are trying to help. I'm still not "getting it" - it sounds very abstract to me at this point.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Of course we make other people happy. If it weren't the case, we would not seek the company of our favorite people, and we would not leave one person for another. "He/she makes me feel so good."


It is a prevalent misconception. We don't seek the company of our favorite people because they make us happy. We enjoy the company of our favorite people because we feel happy being around them. If they were not our favorite people, the company would do nothing for us. 



staystrong said:


> I made her happy for many years until ... until I didn't.


She enjoyed your company for many years and was therefore happy in your company. Until she no longer enjoyed it. 

I enjoy good food. Therefore when I eat good food I feel happy. But good food does not make me happy. Food is always there. If I don't put effort into cooking and consuming it, it does nothing for me or to me.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> It is a prevalent misconception. We don't seek the company of our favorite people because they make us happy. We enjoy the company of our favorite people because we feel happy being around them. If they were not our favorite people, the company would do nothing for us.



Okay, that's a more suitable way of putting it. I didn't mean that we feel empty until we are around the things or people that make us feel happy.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> My awareness is telling me that my wife and I indeed have a good relationship and all of our issues could have been worked out with better communication. That is what is so painful. So it's not me being the victim. I think she's a victim, too, as are the children. But she does not see if the same way. She does not regret the affair.
> 
> And yes, I am angry. For a long time to come, I think. Maybe I should just stop writing in this thread until I make some progress. Because right now I feel like it's better to stay angry. I don't feel I even have a choice. I just AM angry.
> 
> Indifference sounds like it normally would take years if you were in a LTR. I don't know how you got there so quickly.


If you had a healthy, complete relationship then the 'communication' issues would have been resolved before it got to where it did.

Leaving this thread is up to you.

Your choice.

Avoidance will hinder any healing.

Indifference is learned through growth.



staystrong said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Of course we make other people happy. If it weren't the case, we would not seek the company of our favorite people, and we would not leave one person for another. "He/she makes me feel so good."
> 
> ...


Being angry is natural.

Continuing to stay feeling that way is not healthy.



staystrong said:


> I think another thing that plays into this is that I am forced to live in my wife's country if I want to be around my kids (which of course I do). On top of that, I won't be able to get citizenship through marriage anymore which means I will have wait several more years for that benefit. And on top of that, she was prepared to leave me even when I didn't have an income. (I'm employed now.) And what did I do to her that I deserve that? Not make it so she felt completely fulfilled? C'mon. That was on her more than me. Evidently she's not a very good person.
> 
> *What I'm trying to say is that I was a good husband and she was reckless. I want other people we know to shame her because that's what she deserves. Otherwise she will continue to feel validated and make crappy decisions like moving the OM in right after I left. *
> 
> ...


The situation that you are in now is not the greatest.

But life is what you make of it.

You've been handed something that you feel is not fair.

Will you pout like a child, kicking a stone?

Or figure out what YOU can do about it.

That which is not in your control, you must drop to move on.



zillard said:


> *It is a prevalent misconception. We don't seek the company of our favorite people because they make us happy. We enjoy the company of our favorite people because we feel happy being around them. If they were not our favorite people, the company would do nothing for us. *
> 
> She enjoyed your company for many years and was therefore happy in your company. Until she no longer enjoyed it.
> 
> I enjoy good food. Therefore when I eat good food I feel happy. But good food does not make me happy. Food is always there. If I don't put effort into cooking and consuming it, it does nothing for me or to me.





staystrong said:


> Okay, that's a more suitable way of putting it. I didn't mean that we feel empty until we are around the things or people that make us feel happy.


If you are right with yourself.

True to yourself.

Self Aware.

You will attract those that you want to have around you.

The rest will be forgotten.

You train those around you to treat you how you want to be treated.

How do you train them?

By having your boundaries and sticking to them.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Staystrong.

Take this question for what you will.

I would like honesty.

Were you not the OM in your exes previous marriage?


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Anger is a stage in the grieving process. It will pass. The sooner it does the better for you.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Staystrong.
> 
> Take this question for what you will.
> 
> ...


I'll give you full honesty. 

Yes, I was. 

Well, I was not the first OM. Which told me her marriage was already on the rocks. And I wasn't going to judge her for it. 

She had a physical affair with someone over a 6-month period. Someone she saw on a fairly regular basis. 

She met me while traveling and we made arrangements to meet up twice more over a 2 month period. 

But yes, she left her husband for me. She fell for me and pursued me. She got me and I fell in love with her, too. 

Because I'd never been heartbroken, I never fully understood her ex's pain. Now I do. 

Was I inviting trouble by getting together with her? I don't know. It seemed right at the time. I thought she had learned from her past and matured as person. She also became a mother, which changes the way you see the world. I thought our sex life was good so I did not fear she would stray. Now I think she (and I) needed to do more in that department. We needed to be the hot and heavy couple we were when we first met.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She has a history of this.

Sorry to tell you friend.

Learn from it and move on.

You assume that becoming a mother 'fixes' things.

You assume that a stronger sex life could be the answer.

That's all way off focus.

You thought you were the difference.

The 'change'.

Doesn't work that way.

You cannot change anyone.

I now see why you are so incredibly angry at her.

Even more reason to drop it and move on.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't know who "she" is anymore. 

She even suggested once as a joke that I should pursue OM's wife. 

Who does that? 

She has a demon inside her. 

---

I think I'm just worn out.

I would like to sleep for a week straight and not think about anything. 

Here I am and it just officially turned Xmas in my time zone. 

I can't believe this is my reality. 

I miss my children. 

I miss family life.

I'm trying to count my blessings but it is so hard. 

Once you've had the simple joy of marital bliss, you know you've found your place in the world.

Can I come out of this a stronger person? A happy person? 

This is what I ask myself.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> *I think I'm just worn out.*
> 
> *She has a demon inside her. *


You're worn out because you continue to think like that.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You're worn out because you continue to think like that.


What else I am supposed to think?

Nothing else makes any sense.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Theloner said:


> I have read your posts.....
> I want to wish you Merry Christmas for what little worth it may mean right now. I too will never be married to my stbxw. I too will never live in the house I moved out from in September. I won't see my daughter as often. I have had a total life makeover. I just woke up and see it's Christmas day and I'm alone. Well, it certainly feels strange but we have to go on, will carry on.



Merry Christmas to you, too. 

Please treat yourself well.

It's hard, I know...

I stayed in bed for hours. I could not manage to get up.

I have a deep, heavy, sinking feeling today.

I think of the family gathering I would normally be at. 

I see friends posting their family photos on FB. 

I can see now why there are so many suicides on Xmas. 

Please stay strong out there, everyone...


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> What else I am supposed to think?
> 
> Nothing else makes any sense.


It makes perfect sense.

You just cannot fathom that it would 'happen to you'.

I say this as kindly as I can.

You are in complete denial of your situation.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> It makes perfect sense.
> 
> You just cannot fathom that it would 'happen to you'.
> 
> ...



How can I still be in denial? 

I thought I was at the anger stage.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> How can I still be in denial?
> 
> I thought I was at the anger stage.





staystrong said:


> *I don't know who "she" is anymore.
> 
> She even suggested once as a joke that I should pursue OM's wife.
> 
> ...


That's all denial talk.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

StayStrong

No matter what happens today take this week to get the grieving out of your system this week.

And on New Years Eve make a resolution that you will keep.

To get revenge on your wife.

How do you do this.

Live the best life you can live without her.
Be indifferent towards her. Not friends. Not enemies. Indifferent. She is just a coparent.
Fix yourself. Heal.
Replace her with someone that truly loves you. Not the chase of a new sexual conquest but someone that is mature, stable, loyal and loving. Replace that 1 with a 10.
Be the best Dad you can be for your daughter. Set an example that your StBXW has to admire and admit to everyone else what a great Dad you are.

That is revenge my man.

Use that the to better yourself.

Start on 01/01/2013......

Have a great Xmas SS, your new life is about to begin.

HM64


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

For many of us the Mayans were correct. The world did end. But that can also mean a new world just began. A better world. A more fulfilling world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

zillard said:


> For many of us the Mayans were correct. The world did end. But that can also mean a new world just began. A better world. A more fulfilling world.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey Zill

The world actually ended a few months ago. Those deceased Mayans forgot to include leap year. Lol.

Better them than us!


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You slammed the car door in front of your daughter?
> 
> If so.
> 
> That's what you should find disgusting.



ahh settle down . what your trying to tell me i should feel disgusted about slamming a f'g car door - daughter or not , get real as if ! 
besides , daughter wouldn't bat an eyelid at a bit of door slamming , they invented it  but no she'd already gone in anyway.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Whatever you do.. do not talk ill about her in front of your children. Don't even talk about her at all with the kids, ever.

My ex h had several affairs on me. He tried turning my child against me and it worked for a few years. I never once talked about my ex h to my ex and my daughter respected me for it.

I don't hate him, but I don't like him at all. I don't put much thought about him either and I only speak of him on here. I moved on by getting my life back into order. I started college and focused on doing the I could to raise my child on my own. I got very minuet child support and he wasn't always there for visitation. Eventually he abandoned her while she was in her teens. It was a mess and she's in therapy for it. 

Do your best to focus on those precious children. Spend as much time as you can with them. If both you and your STBXW/ex w don't discuss each other to the children, it will be much much easier for them.

I remarried a few years later and to a very honorable man and we've been married nearly 13 years now.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Whatever you do.. do not talk ill about her in front of your children. Don't even talk about her at all with the kids, ever.
> 
> My ex h had several affairs on me. He tried turning my child against me and it worked for a few years. I never once talked about my ex h to my ex and my daughter respected me for it.
> 
> ...


thanks for that and hey , a happy ending , so cool good for you.

no we and i never bad mouth her to my daughter , and l hope she gives me the same and from what i can tell she has .
as a matter of fact i try hard to just treat her now to my daughter as any other time and if she brings her up we just chat about her as we always have .

my daughter actually said about a mth ago , l'm so glad you and mum are still friends and get along no worries it really helps make all this so much easier. pretty well said it all i reckon and really took a load of my mind.
she saw a few fights wehn we were together , what kid doesn't but sice all this we take it outside so to speak if there is anything ar a phone call alone or something. works ok.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> ahh settle down . what your trying to tell me i should feel disgusted about slamming a f'g car door - daughter or not , get real as if !
> besides , daughter wouldn't bat an eyelid at a bit of door slamming , they invented it  but no she'd already gone in anyway.


Yes.

You should feel like sh!t acting like a child in front of your child.

Especially in times like this.

What a complete lack of a sense of security for a child when they see a parent act like a child.

When you're not with your kids slam whatever you wish.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Yes.
> 
> You should feel like sh!t acting like a child in front of your child.
> 
> ...


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> l told you , she wasn't even there ., relax.
> but so what your telling me that out of all the even happy couples or couples going through this in the world , no kids see anything , get real !
> you do your best with your kids if you give a damn of course you do , but no one gets that perfect and that's an education in itself for a kid because life isn't perfect, never will be and neither will parents.
> even presidents act like kids sometimes , lighten up did you even read what i said.!
> even councelers praised the job we're doing with so you know, tell it to someone that needs it .


Assuming I'm getting worked up about this are we?

What I'm telling you is.

Drop the excuses.



> daughter wouldn't bat an eyelid at a bit of door slamming , they invented it





> but no one gets that perfect and that's an education in itself for a kid because life isn't perfect, never will be and neither will parents.





> even presidents act like kids sometimes , lighten up did you even read what i said.!


Oh yes.

I read exactly what you said.

All I read is examples of people who must be held accountable for there actions.

Ironic, you give examples of such but have yet to "read" anything stating that you as a parent, would explain to a child that said behavior (when it happens) was a mistake and not appropriate.

Rather, you excuse it by giving examples instead of recognizing it.

Blame shifting, of sorts I suppose.



> even councelers praised the job we're doing with so you know, tell it to someone that needs it .


When I was in IC.

I told my counselor everything that happened.

Even things I was ashamed of in my behavior.

Not once did she excuse me for acting out of line in front of my kids.

She laid into me for it.

Told me to be self aware and gain self control.

When mistakes were made, cool down and express it to the children.

So.

I am telling it to someone who needs it.

In a calm.

Relaxed manner.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Assuming I'm getting worked up about this are we?
> 
> What I'm telling you is.
> 
> ...


sorry man i was just on my way back to tone that last one down a bit. you've been a great help to so many around here and i didn't mean that to come across the way it did.

but happy to say we have always done all that right though mate but especially through all this mess, that's how we do things.
so once again , it look like we're at least doing a great job in that department even coming from you i'm pleased to say.

and no i wasn't excusing anything , but [email protected] will happen was all i was saying .


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

whitehawk said:


> sorry man i was just on my way back to tone that last one down a bit. you've been a great help to so many around here and i didn't mean that to come across the way it did.
> 
> but happy to say we have always done all that right though mate but especially through all this mess, that's how we do things.
> so once again , it look like we're at least doing a great job in that department even coming from you i'm pleased to say.
> ...


No need to apologize.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

So I'm deciding how to greet my STBXW when I see her in a few weeks.

It will have been 2 months since I've seen her.

In her country, they kiss on the cheek. I doubt I will be doing that. 

Shaking hands seems rude, weird.

Better no greeting at all except for a verbal acknowledgement?

Maybe just whatever feels natural in the moment. 

She knows I hate her so she probably won't be expecting anything but coldness, aloofness, business-like demeanor.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Total sadness today. All day. 

I'm back to missing her with all my heart and soul, yet keenly aware of her betrayal and selfishness. 

I also see areas where I was pegged as being "controlling" were simply ones where she did not assert herself. In other areas, perhaps I was too uptight and controlling.

Dammit, I miss the life I had and how it could have been even better with some more thought, attention to what makes her happy and more money. It was always a pleasure to me to bring a smile to her face, and the smile she brought to mine. 

It's as if a large crane has landed a giant wrecking ball in my life. 

I'm just standing on top of a pile of rubble, barely alive.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Delusional.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

But not under the rubble? Dust off and get moving before the pile of rubble collapses and you fall with it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Zillard, from where I'm standing I envy your position! 


I'm back to Denial. 

My wife loves another man.

She actually LOVES him and no longer loves me. 

It's still inconceivable to me. 

It just makes love seem so fickle.


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## 36Separated (Aug 5, 2012)

I know the feeling - how any mother can dfo that to thier own children is disgusting


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

A father breaking up a family is just as bad. 

Anyhow, they do what they think is right. 

Sometimes it is. 

More often they just seem to do what "feels" right. 

Read stories from the cheater/leaver's perspective to get a better sense of the "How and Why?". 

Try to imagine yourself in their shoes. I know it's hard, but it will answer your question. 

It's tragic for a family to be split up, especially when in theory it is "avoidable".


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## 36Separated (Aug 5, 2012)

A family isd a family- to break it up is the ultimate sin - women are disgusting whgen theyt do this - poor kids - they dont give a **** - wich id never never had kids


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## 36Separated (Aug 5, 2012)

marriage is for life- why enter into itt break it? sick indivuals out their


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## N8vee (Nov 4, 2012)

There is a good chance that she doesn't know what real love is.

My stbxw claimed that after a while. If that was just another line of crap I don't know, but the whole ILYBINILWY speech seems to come from people that don't have a realistic grasp of the actual concept.

To me, love has a lot to do with forgiveness and growth. The ability to bite your tongue and see past flaws. I guess I wasn't on the same page as my wife was...

Strong; I'm sure deep down she will always love you. I have an amount of love for each of the relationships I've been in.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

N8vee,

I think part of her will always love me. 

But... the thing for me is that she put a box around who I am. "You're a, b, and c but I'm also looking for x, y and z." This hurts. Because I am A through Z.

The thing is I was in a bit of slump prior to her affair.

Looking back now, it's so clear to me the changes I needed to make for myself and in relation to her. Clear as freaking daylight. 

Had I had more awareness, or really just some straight talk from my wife, I think I could have made those changes.

Part of it was just being a more outgoing, positive person. I am normally upbeat but there things I needed to do to keep our relationship more "alive" and not so parental. I became enmeshed in home life due to the fact that we had less money than normal and we were in another country. 

The OM was the perfect escape. He offered excitement, vitality and freedom. 

I see how I could have and should have integrated those things more into our couple. 

The pain of losing her is .. incomprehensible. 

Really. Incomprehensible. 

I've never been through a break up like this. 

So I hate her for many things. But I also continue to beat myself up for mistakes I made. Things I didn't realize at the time. 

My new year's resolution is to forgive myself and stop blaming myself. 

Somehow. Some way. 

Happy New Year's.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> My wife loves another man.
> 
> She actually LOVES him and no longer loves me.
> 
> ...


Her definition of love, anyway. 

How do YOU define love?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

staystrong said:


> A father breaking up a family is just as bad.
> 
> Anyhow, they do what they think is right.
> 
> ...



I agree SS. Love is hard work, unfortunately sometimes we come to these realizations too late. And if someone doesn't want to do the work with you it is sad but it is reality. I identify with your comment about love being fickle. My stbxw feels like she is in love with her posOM too..who knows maybe she is maybe she isn't. I just know while he is around there is no chance for R. Broke my heart today. my s10 was making new years wishes to burn. one of them was " I wish mom and dad were still together". I heard that my d5 took stbxw aside and asked her why she couldn't still love her dad..that she needed her to love her daddy again....heart breaking. I never beat her, abused her in any way gave her a good life but distanced myself because of the verbal abuse. How can the just shut off their feelings like a faucet, just to turn another faucet on? especially w 3 kids involved.such a mind ****..has me questioning..was i really that bad?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I agree SS. Love is hard work, unfortunately sometimes we come to these realizations too late. And if someone doesn't want to do the work with you it is sad but it is reality. I identify with your comment about love being fickle. My stbxw feels like she is in love with her posOM too..who knows maybe she is maybe she isn't. I just know while he is around there is no chance for R. Broke my heart today. my s10 was making new years wishes to burn. one of them was " I wish mom and dad were still together". I heard that my d5 took stbxw aside and asked her why she couldn't still love her dad..that she needed her to love her daddy again....heart breaking. I never beat her, abused her in any way gave her a good life but distanced myself because of the verbal abuse. How can the just shut off their feelings like a faucet, just to turn another faucet on? especially w 3 kids involved.such a mind ****..has me questioning..was i really that bad?


How long will you continue to live like this.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm just so sick and tired of it all. 

I try to remain positive but the facts just scream at me. 

Being the one who got cheated on and left. 

Blaming myself, blaming her, blaming the OM. 

I'm going back to the "scene of the crime" next week.

Back to her country / our town, thrust right back into the trigger zone. 

I'm not sure if I want to live there, yet the idea of only seeing my children for summers and a few vacations blows my mind. I may have to start another thread about international separation.

I grieve for all the rest of you going through this. I am so sorry for each and every one of us and our families.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Wow, feeling suicidal today. 

I think I'm entering into a real funk. 

The reality of my situation is becoming a little too... real. 

Do you guys ever feel this way?


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Wow, feeling suicidal today.
> 
> I think I'm entering into a real funk.
> 
> ...


You need to get into a therapist or call a hotline right away. 

No, I have not felt suicidal through any of this.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Think of your kids. How would leaving them behind in this situation help them in ANY way?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

It would destroy them. It would destroy my parents, my friends, others. I know this. 

It's more this gnawing feeling of bleakness that I have. That life is only going to go downhill from here. I've been cheated on and left by the person I cared most about in the world, and now it's like "Well, what the hell's the point?". This absolute feeling of rejection. Nothing else seems to matter.. And now having to decide between living in the USA (my homeland) or her homeland. It's one thing after another... some days I just don't want to cope. I'm tired of coping. I just feel zapped out. Fade to black....


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> It would destroy them. It would destroy my parents, my friends, others. I know this.
> 
> It's more this gnawing feeling of bleakness that I have. That life is only going to go downhill from here. I've been cheated on and left by the person I cared most about in the world, and now it's like "Well, what the hell's the point?". This absolute feeling of rejection. Nothing else seems to matter.. And now having to decide between living in the USA (my homeland) or her homeland. It's one thing after another... some days I just don't want to cope. I'm tired of coping. I just feel zapped out. Fade to black....


While I can completely sympathize with your stbxw situation, I have no idea what it must be like for you to be choosing between your homeland and another country where your kids reside. So sorry you in that situation SS. 

I know it's not the same at all, but I've had to choose between my current residence and moving to my hometown ~800 miles away. The thing is, if my stbxw doesn't follow or make frequent trips, then to my D6 it might as well be a different country. 

You need to seriously evaluate what life will be like for you and your children with each option. If you stay here, why would you do so? Would you be able to make frequent trips to see them? Will stbxw bring them here? Will you get partial custody (not familiar with international situations)? 

If you go, will you have a support system of any kind (other than us)? Could you build one? Would your children see you more? Are be mentally prepared enough for such a move and rebuilding life elsewhere?


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

SS, please read up on co-dependentcy, see IC. 

Althoug my stbxw left for posOM and has been wreeking havock, and the blow to my ego, betrayal, it has never crossed my mind to leave this world.

You are in a dark place, fight your way out of it.

You are better than that. You can only go up from here.

Z is right although every situation is different, YOU have the power to control your feelings.

There are many positives, that you do not see b/c of the darkness.

Please seek help.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

zillard said:


> While I can completely sympathize with your stbxw situation, I have no idea what it must be like for you to be choosing between your homeland and another country where your kids reside. So sorry you in that situation SS.
> 
> I know it's not the same at all, but I've had to choose between my current residence and moving to my hometown ~800 miles away. The thing is, if my stbxw doesn't follow or make frequent trips, then to my D6 it might as well be a different country.
> *
> ...


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> SS, please read up on co-dependency, see IC.


Is it co-dependency or just a massively broken heart?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I hate to read that you are thinking of giving up. Please think of your children when times get tough... I know that things seems dark right now but the light will come...


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

It's not that I would or could, it's just that I want to. What does that emptiness represent? It's kind of terrifying. I don't want to be in a position where through some weakness I did do it.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Or maybe I should just do it. And if I'm not going to do it then I should just stop thinking about it.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Are u taking any meds?
I pray u think of ur children and all the things u would miss out on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Or maybe I should just do it. And if I'm not going to do it then I should just stop thinking about it.


Do you really want to sink lower than your stbxw's level? 

That's what doing this would be.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Or maybe I should just do it. And if I'm not going to do it then I should just stop thinking about it.


SS - I had a thought one night earleir on in my separation when I was in bed where I wished I would have a heart attack and just die in my sleep. The pain hurt so bad I just wanted it to end.

I can let you know this feeling passed and yours will to. As HiRoad and Zillard have advised, please reach out to someone to discuss these feelings ASAP. Your kids need you.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Is it co-dependency or just a massively broken heart?


A healthy ego does not cling to a false hope

You have put her on a pedestal and worshiped her, now she knows she has all the power.

You must stop obsessing over her. 

Do the opposite of how you feel.. it is hard as h3ll..but this is the best presription.

Begin to change the way you think.. use your head. She is not a god

Seek a IC or call a 24hr help line and talk to someone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Your wife is not BETTER than you. The OM is REALLY not better than you. You are on this Earth to live YOUR life! No one is better than you but you are comparing your life against others will not work because You are LIVING YOUR LIFE, not anyone elses. Now I'm going to bed.Goodnight!David


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

SS - there was a time back when I didn't know what was going on, only that my stbxw and I weren't going to work out as a couple that I had some pretty dark thoughts. This was before I knew about my stbxw's PA. I got through it just one day at a time, focussing on what's good in my life. Start each day with a mental list of what you're grateful for. Start with your children and go from there. Your health - it must be pretty good - it got you through this far - you didn't have that heart attack in your sleep, right? Be grateful for everything. 

Just make it through one day at at time and know that it does get better, much better.

Your stbxw is the one with the problem. I have two kids as well, and my stbxw had an EA which morphed into a PA and hid it all from me. She cheated the family when my girls were just 10 and 8. I learned about the PA AFTER we had physically separated. I too went through a stage of desperate longing, hurt/despair, then pure hatred and anger - and I am slowly moving towards indifference. My stbxw is messed up - sounds like yours is too. She is living in a fantasy world with her POSOM and when she crashes - try to be in a position where you don't care. IF you think of your stbxw and the POSOM (btw, DON'T think of them) - just remember - you married your wife when she was younger and in her prime. Now she's older, broken and messed up. She's a lying cheat. The POSOM is getting a messed up mutation of your wife and your old wife is gone. You're the better man.

Don't let her problems dominate your life. Focus on what's important. Your stbxw is NOT important anymore. 

I don't know how old you are, but I am 53 and I am looking forward to the next chapter of my life. The last chapter sucked, but the next one will be better. Life is good and my only regret is that I didn't do this 4 years ago.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks guys. I needed that. 

I did call the hotline once last month when I was REALLY down and the person was not very helpful. I don't know what I expected, but next time I will probably just call a friend instead. 

It depresses me to see all of my married friends and their INTACT families. I long for that simple normalcy - nostalgia walks with me wherever I go. I'm sure you know this feeling, too. There's nothing a person can say or do to make that feeling go away. 

*@HiRoad* I don't think I'm clinging to false hope, but rather "lost dreams".

I was in the Anger phase for the past three weeks and now I feel like I'm back to Depression and Denial. Major denial. 

Yes, she cheated. No, she's not a Goddess. But somehow I feel like I failed the Husband Test. It's hard not to given the circumstances. She let me know she was disappointed, frustrated, etc. etc. (Well, she let me know post D-Day, not so much before.) I can tell myself it's her, it's how she left her first husband, it's how her dad left her mom, but I still feel like "WTF? Our relationship was meant to last." Especially with us having two young kids. Yes, I am one of those BS Zombies roaming the Earth just shaking his head. 

Anyhow, have a good night.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Thanks guys. I needed that.
> 
> I did call the hotline once last month when I was REALLY down and the person was not very helpful. I don't know what I expected, but next time I will probably just call a friend instead.
> 
> ...


Many live in delusions.

You are well aware of this by now.

As you lived in one as well.

Do not seek the delusions of others to 'justify' how you feel.

A smile on the face of a couple in public does not mean those smiles translate into actual happiness between them.

It also doesn't matter how others feel or interact between each other.

No different then saying "I'm not a doctor like that guy, I don't drive a BMW like that guy .. Christ .. I'm worthless".

Life is full of tests.

A continuous 'Husband Test'.

No such thing.



staystrong said:


> Or maybe I should just do it. And if I'm not going to do it then I should just stop thinking about it.


I will tell you this.

8 months ago I sat in the basement thinking about how to cut my wrists.

Across the arm.

Or down the arm.

I had a clean blade in my work knife.

Easily do the trick.

I didn't care at the time if I took my life.

What I could not come to terms with is taking my children's father from them.

In that moment I called my works Employee Help line.

Within 3 hours I was there seeing a therapist.

Found a sitter for my kids and went.

I have never entertained such thoughts since then.

Even in my darkest of times that followed.

So.

As crude as it sounds you are right.

Either you decide to do it.

Or quit entertaining such retched thoughts.

Like so many other things in your life.

This is in your control.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

staystong: You didn't fail the husband test. Your STBXW failed the wife test. Yes, maybe things weren't great between you before the cheating. That is a shared responsibility, it's not all you. Marriage is hard work but it takes TWO to do the work. 

Your wife's cheating was 100% her failure. Her lying was 100% her decision. She has hurt you AND her own children. So not only is she a failure as a wife, she is less than a mother too. 

Think really hard if you would even be attracted to the woman she is NOW, vs the woman of your memories.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

On Dday I was blindsided by my ex wife and her friend at her friends apartment miles from home and my wife had the car keys. I got up and left, told her I was going to kill myself. 

She called the police and 4 cop cars surrounded me a mile down the road. They talked to me for an hour before I agreed to let them bring me to my grown sons' house.

Thank goodness. My brother came over and the two of them held me as I broke down and cried. I realized I have people who care about me and need me (I have an 11 yo daughter too). 

I'm going on 9 months now, getting better every day and I know I'm going to be fine, actually better now that I don't have a cheating wife who betrayed and humiliated me. You'll get there, it will be hard, but keep going, live your life and continue to be a great dad.


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