# This is unbearable



## TryingTilda

I have just figured out my husband has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Marriage is hard enough and now I have this to deal with? His brain does not work right. He is very, confusing, lacks empathy and has a terrible memory. He also has developed a lot of personality maladaptions because of his condition. People that know feel sorry for him, but I have suffered so much and feel I've wasted my life trying to untangle the confusion. It's been 22 years, but I knew something was wrong years ago.
I know I should just divorce him because I cannot be happy. I'm just so scared of going through it and being on my own again. Any questions or feedback are welcome. I need people to discuss this with.


----------



## Fabiovelli

So after 22 years, when the going gets tough, you all of a sudden want to divorce him?

In sickness and in health meant nothing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

No, it's been tough all along. FAS is a condition you're born with. I've tried everything from day 1 to make things better: changed careers for more money, kept up the house, did all the planning and organizing.
I did ask him before we wed if something was wrong and he said "no".
He doesn't come home in the evenings, leaves half the day Saturday, won't share his income, cannot have sex yet tells me he loves me.
Believe me, it's not me bailing on a sick person.


----------



## farsidejunky

That has to be tough to live with. The only statement in your post that really stands out is "Marriage is hard enough to deal with now I have to deal with this?" It sounds like a lot of feeling sorry for yourself. I don't want to take anything away from how much you may suffer, but that statement is disturbing.


----------



## Hope1964

What difference does it make that you just found out what the problem is? You've been dealing with it for 22 years. What's changed besides him FINALLY having a diagnosis? If anything I would think that would be a relief. Now you can move on and deal with it more effectively. TOGETHER.

It was diagnosed by a professional, right? What did they say the next steps should be?

I can't imagine how sad and confused your husband must be


----------



## greenapple

I think your husband should seek professional help and then try to fix things before coming to a decision to divorce.


----------



## SpinDaddy

So for these 22 years why did you stick it out? And what about this diagnosis has changed your perspective?


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

TryingTilda said:


> No, it's been tough all along. FAS is a condition you're born with. I've tried everything from day 1 to make things better: changed careers for more money, kept up the house, did all the planning and organizing.
> I did ask him before we wed if something was wrong and he said "no".
> He doesn't come home in the evenings, leaves half the day Saturday, won't share his income, cannot have sex yet tells me he loves me.
> Believe me, it's not me bailing on a sick person.


Someone with FAS is probably going to lack the awareness that anything is wrong. What was wrong is that you sensed something was wrong and even though it was good and sweet and honest of you to believe that you could change this by marriage and love that was naive and you were young and in love, or felt that you were However, some things are resistant to this kind of effort. 
You will need to figure it out with him. I would be careful of leaving him high and dry in anger, if someone has an issue like this, please do treat him with respect and help him navigate a new life if that's what the option is for you. You have learned that 100% unselfishness is too much to handle, guess what, you're human. But he is family now, because you made him so, and you will do well to treat him as such, no matter what you need to do to take care of yourself.


----------



## TryingTilda

Thank you all so much for sincere responses! How he was diagnosed: went to marriage counseling in 2008. Marriage counselor said he should have Neuropsychological workup! Detected something in first 5 minutes. He's had 2 of them. Both diagnosed serious cognitive issues but said he was good at compensating for them. I found his report cards from 2nd grade in 2011. He was a special ed student with extensive issues. He is in counseling now. She wrote up a whole page of stuff for him to work on-he is trying!
I had forgotten, but back in 1997, his mother glibly mentioned that she thinks he is the way he is because she drank while she was pregnant. At the time I didn't understand.
I have done extensive reading online about FAS and he has facial charateristics; small eyes, thin lip, small head etc. He is still a nice looking man! Very sweet and yes I was in love.
I've changed a lot since marriage. Therapy for some stuff in my childhood and went back to school for my Master's.
Where I'm at now: I am doing the very best I can to treat him well. I've spoken with many professionals about what to do. They said he is able to acquire resources (I'm not so sure)
I'm trying so hard to be kind and respectful, but boy is it hard and unfulfilling.


----------



## honcho

You have been married for 22 years dealing with him, you have known since at least 2008 he has been diagnosed with issues. This isn’t a brand new problem in your life as you have been dealing with it for years. 

What is different today, what dynamic is different in the here and now that is changing your outlook?


----------



## TryingTilda

I started to figure out in 2008 that something wasn't right. Yes, I've had some idea since. To my credit, I've been hanging in there. He has resisted the truth. As of today he still doesn't really admit it, and in a way I can't blame him, so I really have to take care of myself.
Are you wondering why I didn't call it quits in 2008? Nowhere to go! Low income, scared and confused.
Since '08 I've been to 4 different therapists, a brain injury support group and Al-Anon. He's had 5 DWI's. 
Maybe the confusion is that I haven't left yet?


----------



## MSP

TryingTilda said:


> I should just divorce him because I cannot be happy.


I wish all men could be shown this prior to proposing. 

"Guys, if for some reason your wife is not happy, she will divorce you. Still wanna go ahead with this?"



TryingTilda said:


> I've changed a lot since marriage. Therapy for some stuff in my childhood and went back to school for my Master's.


So, you've upped your education, you're feeling better about yourself, and you think it's time for an upgrade husband-wise. Good luck.


----------



## honcho

5 dd’s wow so he has a drinking problem in the hear and now? Things just didn’t change in 2008 and by 08 you have already been married for quite some time. You have been living this way for a long time. 

Have you just come to the realization that he wont or is unwilling to change? Does he know how unhappy you are right now?


----------



## caladan

The "assistance" on this post is quite overwhelming, I have to say. I wonder if all these people would remain married if they were in this condition.

Personally, I think at some point people reach the end of their tether. One can only have so much empathy. You do need to provide more detail though - what is the key issue here? What exactly has happened recently or over time that has gotten you to the point where you're done?


----------



## TryingTilda

I acknowledge this is an unusual situation and that is why it is so hard!
The DWI's were before we were married. He was up front about them. Not full disclosure, but for the most part he told me the truth.
I am not looking for an upgrade. I went back to school because my original degree was outdated and I couldn't find employment. He said "You don't make enough money". I was working in a deli. Now he denies he said that. I inherited money from my grandmother when she passed away in 2007 that paid for a lot of it. I worked my butt off to get through school and worked the whole time so as not to crimp his lifestyle. I graduated with a 3.3 GPA and am much more employable. At the time I was doing it mostly for "us".
The biggest problem in the marriage is he has terrible memory issues and cannot remember things he says and does. Admittedly, he doesn't read body language. I can provide examples. The most painful thing is that I spent 5 years working on adoption procedures and when we got close he changed his mind without much emotion. This was life-altering for me.


----------



## TryingTilda

Caladan-a lot of things have happened!


----------



## TryingTilda

honcho said:


> 5 dd’s wow so he has a drinking problem in the hear and now? Things just didn’t change in 2008 and by 08 you have already been married for quite some time. You have been living this way for a long time.
> 
> Have you just come to the realization that he wont or is unwilling to change? Does he know how unhappy you are right now?


I think what has changed so much and has pushed me to the limit is the realization that he does not know and/or remember what he's saying and doing sometimes. The neuropsychologist that did his testing said, "You don't understand the meanings of things". 
Like when he dropped the adoption journey we were on he didn't realize what he had put me through.
It took me this long and many episodes to figure out (on my own) that he cannot stick with a plan or idea. I've altered my life many times to the point of near destruction to be a partner to him.


----------



## Sanity

tryingtilda,

Please try not to be too discouraged by some of the folks here attacking your potential decision to divorce instead of "toughing it out" or "till death due us part". You have been married for 22 years and its been miserable. I'm not sure what some of the posters here expect from you. Being a good, loyal wife is one thing, being a martyr is such a waste of a life. At the end of the day NONE OF US HERE will be living through what you are going through. YOU have to decide what you want for your life moving forward. Nobody here has the right to guilt you into staying in a destructive marriage just to prove you are loyal. Good luck.


----------



## happy as a clam

Tilda,

I got out of a lousy marriage after 20 years. I don't blame you one bit for wanting out. We only have one life and it shouldn't be filled with misery.

If the two of you can divorce without acrimony, you can still be a "support" person in his life. What I mean by that is you are one of the few people who understands his issues, you will be able to help him continue to receive the help he needs; I DON'T mean that you should be his financial lifeline nor someone he emotionally abuses. Is HE capable of having you in his life as a friend, a confidante?

I wish you the best. I know it's not easy.


----------



## TryingTilda

happy as a clam said:


> Tilda,
> 
> I got out of a lousy marriage after 20 years. I don't blame you one bit for wanting out. We only have one life and it shouldn't be filled with misery.
> 
> If the two of you can divorce without acrimony, you can still be a "support" person in his life. What I mean by that is you are one of the few people who understands his issues, you will be able to help him continue to receive the help he needs; I DON'T mean that you should be his financial lifeline nor someone he emotionally abuses. Is HE capable of having you in his life as a friend, a confidante?
> 
> I wish you the best. I know it's not easy.


That is a really good idea for me to be a support person. I have actually somewhat altered my lifestyle to that already.

He is seeing a therapist that I sought out originally for myself and it is helping him. She treats children with disabilities and she is wonderful. She is helping him to learn to "express his feelings".
I think we can divorce amicably and there is enough for both of us to get on with our lives.

I cannot understand why anyone would come on to this forum and attack anybody! Nobody would want to be attacked or blamed it only adds to the difficulty and pain.


----------



## tennisstar

Sanity said:


> tryingtilda,
> 
> Please try not to be too discouraged by some of the folks here attacking your potential decision to divorce instead of "toughing it out" or "till death due us part". You have been married for 22 years and its been miserable. I'm not sure what some of the posters here expect from you. Being a good, loyal wife is one thing, being a martyr is such a waste of a life. At the end of the day NONE OF US HERE will be living through what you are going through. YOU have to decide what you want for your life moving forward. Nobody here has the right to guilt you into staying in a destructive marriage just to prove you are loyal. Good luck.


I agree. These posters seem to lack empathy. Sounds like the OP has worked on it and is unhappy enough to finally move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sanity

tennisstar said:


> I agree. These posters seem to lack empathy. Sounds like the OP has worked on it and is unhappy enough to finally move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would understand if the OP just got married a few months ago and is giving up but after 22 years and things don't get better but worse then yes its time to consider all options.


----------



## Orla

Tilda- oh my gosh. I worked with teenagers with serious FAS. I can not fathom being married to someone who has no ability to connect an action to a consequence, no lasting insight, no way to read another's body language or have deep meaningful empathy. You know he will get his needs met, at whatever cost. He can't really know, understand or feel your needs. It is just beyond his wiring. 

Your well can only have so much drawn from it before it goes dry. Someone needs to tend to your needs, wants, and desires too. You can NOT stay with someone who can only take. It is not how human's are designed, we Need affection, positive social interaction and love. This is not just an idea, it is documented in medical journals. Without love we die.


----------



## TryingTilda

Orla said:


> Tilda- oh my gosh. I worked with teenagers with serious FAS. I can not fathom being married to someone who has no ability to connect an action to a consequence, no lasting insight, no way to read another's body language or have deep meaningful empathy. You know he will get his needs met, at whatever cost. He can't really know, understand or feel your needs. It is just beyond his wiring.
> 
> Your well can only have so much drawn from it before it goes dry. Someone needs to tend to your needs, wants, and desires too. You can NOT stay with someone who can only take. It is not how human's are designed, we Need affection, positive social interaction and love. This is not just an idea, it is documented in medical journals. Without love we die.


Thank you! When the few people I've spoken with know about the diagnosis they feel more sorry for him. I feel like I am hanging on by a thread-I am a strong person. By the grace of God I will get out.

I made my mistake by becoming too dependent on him and believing his crazy ideas and behaviors was something I had to adjust to. The Neuropsychologist said he was also good at covering up his problem!

I am working with a therapist that is helping me regain some strength and self esteem so I can move on. He is not physically abusive so that is good and I am able to get space from him.

It is just so hard to move on...new place, divide stuff etc. I don't know, maybe it will feel good!


----------



## pakmenu

Tilda, same here, can't understand the total lack of any empathy the first posters give, though i of course understand their simplification and stance. I've been reading 'the act of marriage' a 100% christian book, and i agree totally that the most important reason for marriage is infact 'the act of marriage'. you NEED to have a good lovelife. Ofcourse there are situations people cannot physically 'do the act' but at the very least the inimacy needs to be there. It seems that all of this is lacking. You don't have a husband, who can lead you, love you, or care about you, instead you have a patient you take care of. 

biblically i think a husband that cannot provide children ehm... well if he was the wife, you could have replaced him....

i can only imagine your strength and pure heart, and admire your success in battling for him. It's truely heroic to do so especially when the person himself can't even see what you do for him.

You do mention you're not sure if you can do without him. you need to think about this and why this is. What does he provide that you need? Do you have the need of 'being needed', and will your life be empty when no-one needs you? (many mothers have this problem when kids want to leave). Figure out if 'your kid' is ready to leave the house and live a life on his own!


----------



## TryingTilda

pakmenu said:


> Tilda, same here, can't understand the total lack of any empathy the first posters give, though i of course understand their simplification and stance. I've been reading 'the act of marriage' a 100% christian book, and i agree totally that the most important reason for marriage is infact 'the act of marriage'. you NEED to have a good lovelife. Ofcourse there are situations people cannot physically 'do the act' but at the very least the inimacy needs to be there. It seems that all of this is lacking. You don't have a husband, who can lead you, love you, or care about you, instead you have a patient you take care of.
> 
> biblically i think a husband that cannot provide children ehm... well if he was the wife, you could have replaced him....
> 
> i can only imagine your strength and pure heart, and admire your success in battling for him. It's truely heroic to do so especially when the person himself can't even see what you do for him.
> 
> You do mention you're not sure if you can do without him. you need to think about this and why this is. What does he provide that you need? Do you have the need of 'being needed', and will your life be empty when no-one needs you? (many mothers have this problem when kids want to leave). Figure out if 'your kid' is ready to leave the house and live a life on his own!


That's what my therapist said: I like to feel needed. I do like to nurture people. I am focusing on not mothering him and taking care of myself more. Three weeks ago I had a serious car accident. A school bus pulled out in front of me and my car was totaled. Husband hasn't helped me at all in dealing with insurance company or new car purchase; instead he is 4 hours away with his brother roofing a cabin.

He makes a lot more money than I do and I just dread sorting out who gets what and worrying about where I can afford to live. I know I might get spousal support, but he is NOT going to understand that! That's what scares me. I love our house-it is an amazing, wonderful place to live. We wouldn't be here without my efforts. I can't bear to move. 

I am getting stronger and each day I accept it a little more that I deserve more and that he will be okay and perhaps better off. I am glad he is spending time with his brother (I asked the brother to do that) so he can also be a support and friend for husband.


----------



## TryingTilda

This may sound mean, but I always thought there was something strange looking about him. His eyes seem too small for his face. He has a very high forehead and very small chin. Now, I think his face is malformed from FAS. I also think he has a little Asperger's. He was tested for that and she said she showed some signs. Asperger's alone would be tolerable, I think.


----------



## clipclop2

I think what Tilda is experiencing is understandable. It is a little like finding out there is an affair going on. You knew something was wrong but were unclear what it was. People who want to fix things blame themselves and try their best to resolve whatever is wrong by guessing and taking stabs at various potential problems. So they find out it is an affair and depending upon how much energy they put into self-blame and trying to fix things with no help from the wayward they may feel a real sense of relief to know it really wasnt their fault and that they can't fix the problem because the other person doesn't want it fixed.

Knowledge of the reason tells Tilda she was fighting a losing battle all these years and that she isn't the problem.

And, she is knackered.

I don't know what to say beyond saying that her feelings make total sense to me. I understand the folks who say that since this isn't new she should continue to sick it up. She married him like this. Very true.

Maybe this is a bit of walk away wife. She matured and grew and her life should be different than it is except she married someone who is incapable of growing and measuring at anywhere close to the same rate. The idea of growing old together is much better when you are on the same IQ and EQ scale. Parents who have handicapped kids must understand this better than most of us can. You give birth expecting that one day you will diaper your grandkids when you are 60 but instead are still diapering your son or daughter. This situation isn't as dramatic or tragic but there are parallels.

It would be great if there were some cutting edge help for him. He makes a good living so he can't be all that unteachable. His motivation is what will determine the outcome for him. He has to live with this forever. 

Is there anything he could do to make you want to stay Tilda?


----------



## clipclop2

BTW, I don't understand why AS alone would be tolerable but FAS is not.

Something about that particular diagnosis has got you freaked and that's what people are probably reacting negatively to. 

Is there something in background having to do with alcohol that's coming into play?

And just for yucks let me ask if there are any male friends in your life that you are emotionally involved with.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

FAS? Maybe he is just an a$$hole....


----------



## TryingTilda

Thank you all so much for feedback. I did grow. I went back to school and got a Master's degree. We both worked in printing and discussed that it was going by the wayside. He said he would try and better his employability after I put myself through school-he didn't.
I also got therapy and dealt with some issues from childhood.
I thought I mentioned that he is a recovering alcoholic. 5 DWI's.
I asked him before we were married if he had some cognitive issues and he said no. I chose to believe him and I feel betrayed. Some people think perhaps he didn't know...I think he did. There is nobody else in my life...I am 57 by the way and if I leave there may never be. That's partly why I've stuck it out. I also don't have a lot of my own family so I would really be out there starting over alone.

Here's another huge issue. Back in 1993 he said he really wanted children. I was on the fence because of health issues. I spent several years pursuing adoption and actually became a foster parent as a preparation for adopting. He changed his mind when we got close to the final process. I understand the fear etc., but he led me on for a long time. We moved into a larger house and I turned down a full-time job offer that paid in the $20.00 an hour or better category so I could work part time and stay home. He simply said one day, "I don't wanna do it". No empathy for me. I should have called it quits then.


----------



## clipclop2

I don't understand. He had 5 DUIs and let you know about them. So you knew he had a drinking problem. But a drinking problem and FAS are not the same thing. And a drinking problem doesn't provide evidence of FAS. 

He has a learning disability based on his school record but a lot of people have them. Many extremely intelligent people in fact have them. People in the top one percent of intelligence.

Regardless, you are telling me you feel deceived and much disappointment with your marriage.

I really don't think this is about FAS. You just reached your breaking point.

Have you told him you are leaving?


----------



## TryingTilda

ClipClop. I like hearing readers' conclusions because I am confused! I knew about the DWI's, but he downplayed them and was an active member of AA. Actually, I was so glad he went to AA I must've focused on that more. Now 5 DWI's sounds crazy to me!

His mom told me she drank while pregnant with him. She told me in 1997. I did not understand the ramifications of that and asked him (husband) for clarification. Of course, he said nothing!!

I guess I am just dumb!

I've asked him for an amicable divorce several times. He said no so we are just cohabitating. He is pretending like nothing is wrong (FAS and memory issues!) The neuropsychologist said his working-memory was 15%. Yes, I said 15%. And it is as bad as it sounds.


----------



## TryingTilda

Eggs>He's really not an *******! He's very sweet which makes it harder.


----------



## TryingTilda

If you've read my story about husband's FAS I need some more feedback. We are just cohabitating. I am not in love and it is frustrating dealing with him. He is confusing.
Do I get the heck out or is it okay if I hang in here until the shock wears off and I figure out my next step?
I have no family and am low income. It would be tragic undoing our home and life. I don't know where he would go. He is alone too. All and any feedback would be appreciated! Thank you.


----------



## TryingTilda

clipclop2 said:


> I think what Tilda is experiencing is understandable. It is a little like finding out there is an affair going on. You knew something was wrong but were unclear what it was. People who want to fix things blame themselves and try their best to resolve whatever is wrong by guessing and taking stabs at various potential problems. So they find out it is an affair and depending upon how much energy they put into self-blame and trying to fix things with no help from the wayward they may feel a real sense of relief to know it really wasnt their fault and that they can't fix the problem because the other person doesn't want it fixed.
> 
> Knowledge of the reason tells Tilda she was fighting a losing battle all these years and that she isn't the problem.
> 
> And, she is knackered.
> 
> I don't know what to say beyond saying that her feelings make total sense to me. I understand the folks who say that since this isn't new she should continue to sick it up. She married him like this. Very true.
> 
> Maybe this is a bit of walk away wife. She matured and grew and her life should be different than it is except she married someone who is incapable of growing and measuring at anywhere close to the same rate. The idea of growing old together is much better when you are on the same IQ and EQ scale. Parents who have handicapped kids must understand this better than most of us can. You give birth expecting that one day you will diaper your grandkids when you are 60 but instead are still diapering your son or daughter. This situation isn't as dramatic or tragic but there are parallels.
> 
> It would be great if there were some cutting edge help for him. He makes a good living so he can't be all that unteachable. His motivation is what will determine the outcome for him. He has to live with this forever.
> 
> Is there anything he could do to make you want to stay Tilda?


So true that we haven't grown together and I don't see it happening. He isn't very motivated to get better. I don't even think he understands that might be an option for him. He drags out his therapy sessions to one a month at most. He is very, very sweet! Very nice demeanor. But it is boring and uninteresting.

Part of the reason our marriage lasted 22 years was that I had 2 health problems that were a daily struggle and I was so focused on them. I worked and went about my life but needed rest and down time. They are both better now; I have more energy and ambition. 

The thought of staying is depressing to me. There just isn't a marriage here no matter how you look at it. No sex 7 years and problematic before that. He is incapable of empathy and understanding....just not wired for it.


----------



## happy as a clam

TT,

Since finances are an issue, what about divorcing, but living together as actual roommates temporarily? I know that might seem weird, but it's basically what you are doing already. Is there a way to set up your house so you each have your own private space?

Are you interested in finding someone new to share your life with? Do you think he would want to date someone new? If so, you could both lay down the ground rules for dating -- no dates at the house, no overnight guests, etc. Perhaps it would allow you both some time to get your finances in order before you actually parted ways.

Just a thought...


----------



## TryingTilda

I have divided out the house somewhat and suggested roomates but he says no, not that he is the final word. He is confused and spending money foolishly. Goes out of town a lot on weekends to our cabin alone while I stay here and "hold down the fort". It hurts to watch him admit he is confused and try to understand things.
I am interested in someone else now. I think husband would be very messed up if he knew! Not letting him know for his own good and keeping it quiet.
I told husband to call his therapist today since he was so confused about whether or not to go out of town again!
Don't know what's next for him. Needs more help with thoughts and decisions. I am helping somewhat but was told not to mother him.
Thanks HAC. Pleas hang in there with me.


----------



## clipclop2

Please clarify "I am interested in someone else now,"


----------



## that_girl

Does your husband want help in order to learn how to cope and "get better"?

I mean, it is up to him to seek help.


----------



## that_girl

Oh so you are interested in someone else now, which means expediting this exit plan for you?

I mean, imo, a diagnosis would be HEAVEN because now you know the problem and can work on it.

But I can see how wanting to be with someone else shines the light on all the bad stuff in the marriage...


----------



## that_girl

TryingTilda said:


> Very nice demeanor. But it is boring and uninteresting.


I understand you are frustrated and just want to be free to live and grow.

But be honest with yourself and us here. You want to leave. You want to be with the other person...someone who is not boring or uninteresting.

Justifying why you want to leave by putting all the blame on your husband and all his downsides is wrong. Just say you don't want to be married because you have found someone else.


----------



## TryingTilda

My husband isn't getting much help and I don't think there is much that can be done. He does see someone once a month. She is doing some talk therapy and he is trying; but there are just some parts of his brain that do not work, like having empathy. He left for the weekend again and went to our cabin by himself while I stayed here. Before he left he said "he" would set up marriage counseling and go, but I think he forgot. He also said he would help me pay for my car because I don't make enough for my expenses...but when I reminded him he backpedaled again.
Yesterday we picked strawberries and he didn't know when to stop. I knew if I suggested he quit he would get upset and do it anyway. I waited 1 hour while he picked about 20 pounds and then when we put them in the car he suggested we go to a park. I said we should probably go home and deal with the strawberries!
When he got home from the cabin he threw all his stuff (suitcases and tools) on his bed and played on his computer for a few hours. Then at 9:00 pm he went grocery shopping and returned at 10 pm while I got ready for bed. He has the TV blaring and lights on while I'm trying to sleep. Totally out of sync. Unaware.


----------



## TryingTilda

An old friend from my childhood that I haven't seen in years works near me now. We have been somewhat of a support system for each other lately.
If someone would have been honest (when I asked) about my husband before I married him I would never have married him! Instead they told me how "nice" he was. He is nice...I'll give him that. He is impotent and has ED because he was molested and never got help for that. I guess I am a really bad person for not embracing this terrible messed up relationship for another 22 years.


----------



## TryingTilda

You are wrong and very unkind That Girl. I read some of your posts and, no offense, but I think you should deal with your own issues before you demonize me. I am seriously confused and appreciate the honest kind helpful people that have written back. No I'm not looking for an upgrade. I wish my husband was normal. I just don't see much of a future with him based on the past. At least the way it is now. The marriage never really settled in. Never had goals etc. just lots of frustration.


----------



## thegreenfairy

its oh so easy for people to sit in judgement.....living and supporting someone who is unwell is very very tough....always putting yourself last and the other person first can be soul destroying especially when you are getting nothing back in return....have you considered maybe having a holiday on your own for a week or so to try and recharge yourself? or even temporary seperation? to see how you feel...might be worth a go...i have no idea about your husbands condition so i wont pretend to have an idea....what sort of support network do you have? i really hope you can find happiness for yourself i really do xx


----------



## Trickster

TT

Far be it for me to give advice. My marriage is so screwed...

After 22 years, many people change and grow apart... My wife and I grew apart as well after 22 years... I am not the same person I was when my wife and I first met...

You knew your husband had issues before you married. Are you from a disfuntional home as well?

IMO, an emotionally healthy man or woman wouldn't put up with a relationship with that type of dynamics. My wife and I were both messed up for different reasons...it was functional and worked for many years...

I am sure your marriage was working for you. It just wasn't bad enough for you to leave...

I can relate to personal growth... It seems like you are putting all the blame on your husband though. I blamed my wife for our issues.. Now, I definitely see the role I played...I didn't before. I don't think he was being dishonest with you. If he is sick, he still doesn't know it...

I will ask again.... What were your issues when you married? You willingly sold your soul for some reason.

Now with your therapy, you have the strength to leave...


----------



## TryingTilda

Excellent response. Thanks!!
I am trying to not blame him and take responsibility for my part. You are correct. I married him willingly and did have an idea something was wrong! I own up to that totally. I have chilled a lot on blaming him.

I did come from a dysfunctional home. I was emotionally and physically abused and on my own at age 16. A lot of trauma in my life. It was very difficult. My therapist called me a survivor. It's always been my plan to stop the cycle that was dealt to me. Thanks for laying it on the line. 

If I decide I cannot go on I will be as kind to him as possible and, like I said, own my part.


----------



## clipclop2

the problem with what you are saying is that you are allowing a label to become the excuse for behavior that you have known existed the entire time you've been together. You said you always suspected something was wrong with him and you married in any way. Whether he understood the ramifications of his mother's drinking or not is seriously unclear. you can't be honest with someone about something that you do not know or understand yourself.

if you recall my initial response to you was understanding of what you were experiencing and going through. But I also asked a question very pointedly if there was somebody else. And you never answered that question.

That suggests a level of decept on your part toward us. that's disrespectful new line new line secondly the justifications that you using right now are retrospective. You already let the horses out of the barn and now you want to justify it.

It didn't happen the other way around and that's the real crux of the situation. You are a married woman and you have developed a relationship another man. That is unacceptable.

your anger speaks volumes.

You feel justified and you feel like you deserve this. Entitlement is never an attractive quality in a person. it is a specially unattractive in someone who is justifying stepping out on their marriage. 

like I suggested in my overall assessment of people who use your kind of argument why don't you talk to some people in your real life and tell them what's going on and get an assessment from someone who will judge you based on their knowledge of you and their knowledge of your husband. if you're afraid to tell anyone what's going on that is a huge red flag that what you are doing is not good. 

while many of us understand a lot of what you feel there aren't going to be a whole lot of people who think that what you are going through justifies cheating, even if it is only emotional at this point.

And it is just emotional at this point correct?


----------



## Trickster

TT

Does your husband have BPD Borderline Personality Disorder?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trickster

Is there a chance your sweet nice emotionally unavailable man will go postal if you decide to leave?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2

He doesn't sound BPD. Let's not go there. Autistic scale perhaps. 

Let's get this straight: no mental health issue of a spouse justifies cheating.


----------



## TryingTilda

First of all I didn't know that he had FAS, I suspected something was wrong when I met him. I asked him several times if he had learning disabilities and he said no. My only reference was a friend I had growing up that had dyslexia and she actually did fine. Before I married him I tried to understand him. I had several conversations with my aunt who teaches learning disabled people and she focused on dyslexia. I also went through marriage prep at my church with my priest and although he said there were red flags he didn't elaborate. So, once again, it's not black and white...I suspected, I didn't know. I chose to focus on his positives which have now been outweighed.
I just finished a series of counseling with Catholic Charities and told her about another friend in my life and she actually condoned it based on my situation. I realize it's hard for the public to anonymously judge the situation without knowing me or him.
He doesn't have BPD. He has FAS and a little Aspergers. The Neuropsychologist said, "You don't understand the meaning of things". That was based on extensive, 8 hour testing.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am right and he is bad. This is just so painful and difficult I really appreciate the feedback.


----------



## clipclop2

You are trying to convince us that what you are doing is right because of something that was always there but has suddenly become a reason, also known as an excuse, for you to cheat.

If he was so damn bad why did it take another man entering your life to make you want to leave?

You have your own problems.

Get rid of the other man and see if you are willing to stand on your own two feet. See what this is really about. Leave your husband and his good job and live with family or get a cheap place yourself, have regular friends and get your life together. If you can do it without this other man then maybe you are right to do it. 

If you can't or won't then face that you are leaving your husband

FOR

ANOTHER

MAN.


----------



## TryingTilda

I don't have family. I am underemployed too. Working on it.
I wasn't fully aware of the FAS or Aspergers.
How many married people overlook red flags?
How many people change after 22 years?

I tried to get him into MC in 2008. Promised he would participate; went once accused me of "setting him up". Stuck here.

A little game I've played in my mind is imagining I had enough money to live on my own, would I go? You bet.


----------



## TryingTilda

CC---appreciate your honesty. Searching my soul for truth.


----------



## Trickster

TryingTilda said:


> I don't have family. I am underemployed too. Working on it.
> I wasn't fully aware of the FAS or Aspergers.
> How many married people overlook red flags?
> How many people change after 22 years?
> 
> I tried to get him into MC in 2008. Promised he would participate; went once accused me of "setting him up". Stuck here.
> 
> A little game I've played in my mind is imagining I had enough money to live on my own, would I go? You bet.


T.T.

People do change over time...you are right.

If both people smoke and one decides to quit, that could eventually be a deal breaker.

If both are active and healthy and 20 years later one is 50 pounds overweight and does nothing to improve their health, that can be a deal breaker.

Same if both people drink and one gets sober...deal breaker.

Even if just one in the relationship has a drinking problem.... When they get sober, the dynamics change and the sick person doesn't need the spouse like before...

If both people start off emotionally and psycologically unhealthy and one has growth, while the other stays in their disfunction and doesn't want to improve themselves? Yes, that can be a deal breaker.

OP, because of your own early life disfunction and your current financial dependence on your husband, you are stuck. 

Find a way to become independent... 

Decide what you would want to give up for freedom... Give him an offer he wouldn't refuse...


----------



## TryingTilda

Thanks for the clarity, Trickster. I've had that idea, become financially independent, and then I digress because I'm not sure if that is the answer.
I believe it's something I can do.


----------



## clipclop2

Dont let your husband foot the bill while you give what is rightfully his to another.

Don't use him like that. It isn't fair. Or nice.

Get rid of the OM or have him pony up the bucks to support you.


----------



## Trickster

TryingTilda said:


> Thanks for the clarity, Trickster. I've had that idea, become financially independent, and then I digress because I'm not sure if that is the answer.
> I believe it's something I can do.


Why would being financially independent be the wrong answer?

Whether you stay or go your financial independence should be your ultimate goal.

Will you rely on the next man financially?

Independence gives you power, freedom, confidence, and control over your life, the present as well as the future. 

Do you really want to rely on and be dependent on any one person again?


----------



## TryingTilda

No, I've always worked and paid for my own stuff.


----------



## TryingTilda

When we got married I was financially independent and had been for 17 years. I gave that up because he wanted children ( I was unsure) and we agreed I would work part time and stay at home more. Later he changed his mind so I am regaining independence.
I've learned my lesson; always depend on myself first.


----------



## TryingTilda

My husband is showing some changes after seeing a therapist.
I still think he should "admit" his issues, FAS, and that it should be our truth. He wants to shove it under the rug and pretend like he's fine. He says he doesn't want to talk about it because he is overcoming it. I think that is a positive attitude, but I need to have truth. Either way I don't, sadly, feel like I'm in love with him anymore.


----------



## Trickster

TryingTilda said:


> My husband is showing some changes after seeing a therapist.
> I still think he should "admit" his issues, FAS, and that it should be our truth. He wants to shove it under the rug and pretend like he's fine. He says he doesn't want to talk about it because he is overcoming it. I think that is a positive attitude, but I need to have truth. Either way I don't, sadly, feel like I'm in love with him anymore.


So it doesn't matter what he admits if you no longer love him.

It's just a label you are after to validate you leaving... You don't need that label to leave...It doesn't make anybody right or wrong... It just is...

If your goal is to leave. Have your exit strategy and be honest to your husband that you want out...

Just drop the label...doesn't mean anything...people change...


----------



## clipclop2

Look, he is the exact same guy you married. You chose him. As he is.

Do you really think he is so defective when you willingly take the benefits he offers? What if you admit you are using him if he admits to something that is not his fault? You are choosing to use him and want another man. He was born with this through no fault of his own.

Of the two of you, who is more honorable?

When he wises up and kicks you to the curb, you will make that his fault too won't you.


----------



## caladan

clipclop2 said:


> Look, he is the exact same guy you married. You chose him. As he is.
> 
> Do you really think he is so defective when you willingly take the benefits he offers? What if you admit you are using him if he admits to something that is not his fault? You are choosing to use him and want another man. He was born with this through no fault of his own.
> 
> Of the two of you, who is more honorable?
> 
> When he wises up and kicks you to the curb, you will make that his fault too won't you.


But - she did say she wasn't aware of this when she married him didn't she?

And your reason is quite weak. Stop internalizing other people's issues. Offer advice if you have some. This post was ridiculously personal.


----------



## clipclop2

what she didn't know was that there was a label for what happened to him. But he has behave the exact same way throughout the entire time that they were married. she said she suspected that there was something wrong but she didnt know what it was. now she knows coincidentally there's another man so all of the sudden she has a major problem with her husband. 

there's nothing about this for me to internalize. It's just that correct timing is awfully self-serving. 

he can't be that much of a defective idiot if he's holding down a really good job and she states. and she certainly has no issue taking the financial benefits that he brings to the table. 

if you read my earlier post to her I sympathized with how she's feeling. But as soon as another man answers to everything that she says. Cheaters lie and rewrite history. 

go back and read everything carefully. 

if her husband does have cognitive issues because his mother drank they were well throughout this couple's entire relationship. however if he has a cognitive difficulty and his wife is cheating on well still taking the benefit of what he has to offer then I think its pretty sucky on her don't you? he's trying to get help and he's trying to better himself even if he's not quite there yet. maybe she should tell him about the other man to gravity of the situation. having someone stick a knife in your heart and twist it while they are reaching for your wallet tends to make a man take notice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

Thank you so much for the discussion. I'm trying to do what's right.
He is incapable of empathy. When I married him I didn't realize that. Can I live the rest of my life like that...it's very lonely.


----------



## clipclop2

Is he truly incapable?


----------



## hehasmyheart

I think empathy is either there or it isn't there. It's almost like starting over with a child to teach empathy, since this is taught in the early years. Maybe some are never capable of learning it at all. The part of the post that I think has promise is that he's nice. That is a valuable personality trait.

However, it would be a very lonely place to play Mommy each time he just doesn't "get it" without you telling him how he should react or feel. It would be like teaching it over and over, without them ever reacting or feeling on their own.

People are not perfect. We all have imperfections, whether physical or mental.

The new guy looks great when he's empathizing with you. You feel starved for it.

I'm not judging you OP, and I understand where you're coming from. Just keep in mind, you'd be trading in your husband's issues for a whole new set of issues. It all looks rosy at first, without life's problems getting in the way.


----------



## TryingTilda

I think husband is truly incapable. He even admits he doesn't feel empathy much. He watches a lot of slasher type TV shows and laughs at really gory parts.
Another example: I had day foot surgery in 2008 and when the nerve block wore off at home I was in extreme pain. He dropped me off at home and went to work 4 miles away. I literally could not get to the bathroom. I called him at work and begged and pleaded for him to come home--he wouldn't. 2 years ago I had severe food poisoning and threw up 7 times in the middle of the night. I was really dehydrated and sick in the morning but he left for work anyway. My mom called at 1 pm and I was still in bed, kinda confused. My mom got a hold of him and he still did not come home so she brought me to the ER. Toaster oven on fire-called Fire Dept. but husband showed up first. Told him I had a kitchen fire but he stayed outside BSing with the neighbor. 
It has been confusing being married to him because of this issue. Now I don't expect it.


----------



## TryingTilda

Here's some more crazy behavior from last night. I got home from work at 4. He got home at 6:45. He said he was really tired and was going to get off his feet. I said I was going for a walk and would make dinner when I got back. I was gone for 1 hr. and when I got back he had the living room pulled apart and was cleaning the wood floors. He proceeded to do this for 2 more hours...banging around loudly!! I made dinner but he didn't stop to eat so I went to another part of the house and ate my dinner alone really annoyed because of the racket, I was tired too.
I dared not say anything because he always get defensive.

It's no fun.


----------



## PBear

TryingTilda said:


> Here's some more crazy behavior from last night. I got home from work at 4. He got home at 6:45. He said he was really tired and was going to get off his feet. I said I was going for a walk and would make dinner when I got back. I was gone for 1 hr. and when I got back he had the living room pulled apart and was cleaning the wood floors. He proceeded to do this for 2 more hours...banging around loudly!! I made dinner but he didn't stop to eat so I went to another part of the house and ate my dinner alone really annoyed because of the racket, I was tired too.
> I dared not say anything because he always get defensive.
> 
> It's no fun.


You're upset because he was cleaning the living room floors?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clipclop2

I have a really hard time getting annoyed with a husband cleaning wood floors. 

the other stuff is especially the fire. Most guys are at least curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

Before I went for a walk I told him I would make dinner when I got back because he said he was so tired. When he was cleaning he was deliberately banging stuff around really loud so I went to another part of the house. I made dinner and it sat there for an hour. I think he may have forgotten our conversation.
I thought it was rude that he was doing this at 9 pm when we both normally go to bed so we can get up early for work. Normally we watch TV and work on our laptops. 
Also, he doesn't clean unless he has family over. No I was glad he was cleaning because he does a good job, but it was just so out of the ordinary and disruptive because we both hang out in the living room. The reason I mentioned wood was he had to take up big rugs and move a lot of furniture. Not weird, okay, I'll let it go.


----------



## TryingTilda

I just think when you get home in the evening it's time to come together, not do things that cause such chaos.


----------



## PBear

No, it's very weird! A guy cleaning, without being nagged?

Next time, try to really tick him off, and see if you can get him to do the bathrooms. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

He cleans bathrooms. He's a great cook, can fix anything. Does laundry, pays most of the bills, figures out computer problems.
He is very non-verbal though. Kind of a genius yet talented at so many things.....Aspergers. Did test for it and has some mild Aspergers syndrome. We're trying counseling together again on Thursday because he cannot speak about his feelings etc.


----------



## clipclop2

He sounds pretty decent to me.

Having actual friends, female friends, could balance your life better than dumping an otherwise decent man.


----------



## TryingTilda

When I started realizing the issues with him and got testing results I wondered what part of him was the Fetal Alcohol and what part was his personality. He has been seeing a wonderful therapist and I have been seeing dramatic changes in him. He is a decent man. I am glad he is improving himself and growing. With so many years of crap from him I don't know if I can erase all the bad feelings and memories. I am being extremely nice and kind, with boundries, to him because he has a mental disability. Just so not attracted anymore and no sex with him for years-6 or so. 
He never says anything about sex. Cannot even talk about it. I used to try but that was caretaking so now I don't. Feedback?


----------



## TryingTilda

My point was that I now see what is personality and what is FAS. I think with the FAS he developed some pretty bad characteristics. When I talk to him he has a long pause before he answers because his brain works very slow. I used to think it was kind of arrogance but now I know. I can tolerate it quite a bit but after a day of it my nerves get kinda frayed. He also repeats things a lot because he forgets what he said.


----------



## TryingTilda

CC-I do have friends and my own life per se.
I grew up in foster homes and have no ties with family. I also moved around a lot just to survive. I really wanted a family with J, it did not materialize. I am now stabilizing my life and have friends from church, the gym and work. It takes time to grow friendships.


----------



## jng5250

I am in a simliar position. My wife is an alcoholic (now recovering) and my son has been a problem son for years. His lack of empathy, responsibility, understanding, etc. has finally convinced me to think he has an illness, so I started to look at FAS.

Per one site:Behavior problems in FAS are manifold, including unpredictable extreme mood swings, impulsiveness, diminished judgment, attention deficit, lack of normal self-discipline, irresponsibility, and difficulty taking social cues.

This describes my son and these issues have caused him problems with the law, and I'm in the process of having him removed from my house - he's 19 and thinks he has a right to be there, not work, and has no qualms about asking me for money (which I make him earn through chores).

I want to divorce my wife and have my son kicked out. Reading what little I have on FAS, I'm wondering what other options I may have.

He has made many threats to me and my wife, won't even get a HS degree and can't hold down a job.

I'm going to review his face to see if they match FAS symptons, but it sure seems he meets the above criteria. Needless to say, I'm at my wit's end. My wife has always been the enabler, and maybe I should have ended the marriage long ago, but now it seems that is my only recourse.

All comments are welcome.
Jim


----------



## happy as a clam

jng5250...I'm so sorry for your problems. 

Why don't you start a new thread? You'll get lots of feedback without "thread jacking" Tilda's thread. And keep commenting any useful info on Tilda's thread, of course.

I wish you the very best.


----------

