# Just so tired of the clutter and filth...



## Bornold

This is my first ever post on this forum, though I have been a long-time lurker. I recognize that compared to many other couples' problems my story might seem trivial, but please be kind and understand that I would not be posting this if it wasn't truly bothering me.

First, my situation: my wife and I have been married for over ten years. Both of us are employed in good professional jobs and we make plenty of money and live, with our three children, what most people would consider to be a really good life. My wife is pretty, presents well, and is well-respected in her profession. Other than the nearly nonexistent sex, a common enough refrain among those married for more than a few years, I have no real complaints. We never argue about anything except what I am about to describe. 

Simply put, my wife is a slob. She just piles stuff everywhere. There is not one flat surface in our house that isn't piled with her crap. Old magazines, old bills, coupons she has clipped, papers from work, bubble-wrap she might use someday, work from the kids' classes, empty envelopes, makeup and bottles of shampoo that she purchased several weeks before... it just goes on and on and on. The living room tables are all covered. The tops of the bedroom tables and dressers are covered, as are the bathroom cupboard and the work tables in the basement. We often have to shove stuff aside to eat dinner at the dining room table. 

What won't sit on top of a pile somewhere gets thrown on the floor. Her coat is never hung up after she removes it, it usually either goes on the floor IN FRONT OF THE CLOSET or is added to a pile of other coats. Her shoes are in a big ever-growing pile next to the door, until I can't take it any more and put them all away in her closet. (The next day she starts on a NEW pile of shoes.) When she undresses at the end of the day, she loops her bra over the end of the bed with about ten other bras and throws her clothes in a pile on a chair. There's another pile of shoes and slippers on the floor next to her side of the bed. Stuff keeps falling off of her nightstand onto the floor.

This extends to her car as well. Every couple of weeks I vacuum out of her car the most unbelievable amount of food and trash. She blames it on the kids, of course, though the three kids spend just as much time in MY car as in hers, and my car is spotless, because I clean it up soon if one of us makes a mess. Her car stinks.

(Honestly, I am chuckling to myself as I read over what I have just typed. It all seems so surreal and pathetic.)

I noticed these slob tendencies in her when we were dating, but it was never THIS bad. She must have tidied up a bit every time I came over to visit. But ten-plus years down the road, it's really AWFUL. And to make it worse, our kids now think this is how people should live.

I've done everything I can think of to curb this behavior. I am no neat-nick, but I like a clean and reasonably uncluttered house, so living like this makes me feel stressed. 

For what it's worth, I do more than my share of housekeeping. I have never seen her vacuum, for instance. I do the dishes and clean the kitchen after dinner, keep the bathrooms clean as best I can with all the piled up stuff, and so on. I have thought of just letting her stuff pile up higher and higher with the hope that eventually she would wake up to what she is doing, but I think we'd be in it up to our necks in a few months, so for the kids' sakes I do what I can to stay ahead of it. 

I've tried talking to her about it, have offered to pay for cleaning services, have checked out library books on the subject and left them for her to find, and have asked one of her friends to talk to her about it. Nothing has worked. In fact, every time I even broach the topic, my wife immediately turns it around and heaps blame on me, forcefully insisting that much of the mess is mine. I usually look around in bewilderment at this... There isn't a thing in sight that is mine and is part of the mess. Then I get the Ice Queen treatment from her for a day or two.

When we visit friends, I nearly have a breakdown when I see their houses and how neat, clean, and uncluttered they are. Once I really lost it and had to go sit in the car for a while and calm down. I was nearly in tears.

I don't want to keep living like this. The thought of that makes me SO depressed. It absolutely breaks my heart to type this, but I have thought of leaving her because of the mess.

If it were not for my children, I'd have left by now, I do believe. 

I have seen the effects of divorce on the children of friends and acquaintances, and I don't think I could ever do that to my three innocent kids. I am VERY involved in their lives and if I moved out it would destroy them, and probably me, too. 

But what can I do? I am so out of ideas... I can't leave, I can't live like this, and my wife refuses to even admit that anything is wrong.


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## that_girl

I would move out. Divorce? I duno. If you love her, don't divorce. But I could NOT live with that filth and crap...and people like that tend to have emotional issues that keep them from cleaning it up.

I dunno. Tough situation. No way to live though.


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## twowheeltravel

I faced similar issues but shes gone now. tell her what you told us and how its affecting you happines. Your standard of cleanliness and orderly home is different from hers. Ask if you can work on some solution together on this. if yes, good. If she gets mad or doesntwant to talk about it then plan on getting an apartment for yourself where you can live until she decides she will address your concern. Or even a camper in the yard.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Wow, that's painful to listen to. I detest clutter. 
My ex is a hoarder. 

I read somewhere that some people attach memories to objects, so having their objects around is what keeps them connected to the past. They don't seem to store good internal memories of pleasant events, etc. and also use the stuff as a connection to the world, vs. their memories or intangible/emotional connections to others. That is, they are out of sight, out of mind people and they don't want to let things get out of sight. 

Some stuff you could turn into collections, like a huge shoe rack/storage area, and a set of cute hooks/hangers for the bras. For paperwork, I use colored file boxes and stack them on the shelf. I tend to do filing about quarterly. If she does it never, you can slap a date on the boxes and put them in storage somewhere. 

I could not live that way. I have areas of my apartment that are allowed to be messy, to a point. But eventually even those get cleaned and organized, in some kind of cycle. 

It's not right that you should spend your energy in life cleaning up after another able-bodied adult. I wonder too if she does this in some sort of attempt to keep you busy, in order to keep you away from her. Maybe she has attachment issues of a different sort...using stuff and management of stuff and cleaning to avoid you by proxy.

I have a guy friend (not a boy friend) who lives this way. I finally had to distance myself from him. Because it was too much to hear about.


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## mablenc

I feel for you, does your wife work outside the home? Is she disabled in anyway or suffer from depression or fatigue? I'm asuming no on all. Does she know that DCF can take your children away because its a hazard to them? I'm not the best housekeeper but, there has to be certain standards.'I can bet that the clutter is the main source of the problem. As mentioned above she can have a hoarding problem and its one of the hardest things to treat but not impossible. 

Otherwise then I'd recommend bringing in someone to clean at least once a month. Do your children help? Maybe a family schedule the kids will see that mommy is not holding her part.
When I'm not feeling in the mood to clean I watch hoarders that makes me jump off the sofa and get going. 
Maybe for mother day you can get her a nice mop and cleaning products.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Got a digital camera? Photograph the condition she keeps her home and tell her it's going to be posted in cyberspace for her friends' enjoyment unless she gets off her wazoo and picks up. Women are competitive and vicious with each other. Your wife must be pretty competitive to be so well thought of at work. She doesn't go to work looking like garbage. She feels free to live in it because it's only your opinion and that doesn't count. 
Beyond that, quit asking and just hire a maid. Make it a very attractive, very young maid with ridiculously enormous hooters and make sure she is scheduled to arrive when you're there but your wife isn't. Of course, for this tactic to work best, your wife needs to arrive home in time to see this domestic goddess in her home, a huge smile on your face, and her home looking uncharacteristically amazing.


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## mablenc

I just read she does work, do think that getting rid of the clutter and working organization would help? I organized everything in my sons room. He had tons of toys legos, cars, logs, blockes, puzzles and so on. I went to Walmart and they had these tubs/pails for washing your car a good size and nice colors. I bought a bunch and labeled them and sorted everything. The room is so easy to clean up because everything has a place that's labled and accessible. 
Go around and look at the main problems around your home. If its dishes use paper ones much as possible. If its clothes have a basket in every bed room and bathroom. If its toys get some tubs and sort them. If its trash put trash cans in every room and make everyone responsible to empty their cans daily. Buy a steam mop for the floors and invest in a nice vacum and steam carpet cleaner these are good investments. The. Wash clothes daily or every other day and run the dishes at night. Have hooks for the backpacks. Jackets, purses and keys. If you have to lable everything do it. Get small baskets to organize the bathroom items under the sinks and one on the counter for the things you use daily. Everything should have its place and should be easy to locate and acesible. 
Hope this helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> My wife is pretty, presents well, and is well-respected in her profession. Other than the nearly nonexistent sex, a common enough refrain among those married for more than a few years, I have no real complaints. We never argue about anything except what I am about to describe.


You need to think about your marriage in a NEW WAY, bornold! The quote above bothered me a lot when I read it; it's as though you're more concerned with the APPEARANCE of a successful marriage than the actual marriage.

Is she a good mother? She's NOT a good wife! *She has EMOTIONAL issues that she is refusing to acknowledge.* These issues are causing her to

not have sex with you; which means she's is not... 
emotionally/intimately connected or involved with you
dismissive of YOUR feelings regarding living with slovenliness
blame-shifting it all to be YOUR fault
Your wife NEEDS TO BE in Individual Counseling to fix her emotional problems. If she doesn't, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE. *THIS*, right here....what you're currently living with, will be YOUR LIFE until you divorce/die. If that ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH, then YOU must REQUIRE CHANGE!

What are the MOST IMPORTANT JOBS of a parent? To TEACH children to be 

RESPONSIBLE, FULLY-FUNCTIONING, POSITIVELY-CONTRIBUTING adult members of their society,
fully-engaged PARTNERS in a relationship
healthy adults with healthy self-esteem and respect for others
*Ask yourself AND YOUR WIFE*....'are OUR kids learning these important lessons from us?' They're LEARNING whatever it is you two are SHOWING THEM (they don't give two toots about what you're SAYING....only what you're DOING....actions speak louder than words!) If your wife won't change for herself or for you, perhaps she will change and be the example she OUGHT TO BE for your children! If not, it might be time for you to leave and show them a PROPER example of how ADULTS live (and it's NOT one being the drudge/martyr while the other goes on her merry slovenly way!)

THINK ABOUT IT! What you're living through will be your kids' marriages in another 20-30 years! What complaints will THEY be bending YOUR ear about at that point in time? Is there a way you can help them AVOID those upcoming unsatisfying marriages?


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## tacoma

I feel your pain.

You've just described my wife to a "T" as far as her hoarding slobbiness.

After this long though there isn't much you can do about it.

Learn to live with it or don't but it's unlikely to change.

On the flip side her messiness has made me a much neater person.


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## just_about_done

Give her a fresh start. Clean the house from top to bottom. Put every thing away. Don't worry about dusting and that type stuff just get the clutter out of the way. Then call a family meeting and make it clear anything left in a place it does not belong will be thrown in the trash. Go a little easy on the kids though, if they're young, a few reminders wouldn't hurt.


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## that_girl

If he puts stuff away/throws things out his wife could have a breakdown.

People who hoard like this have some deep emotional shet to work through, usually.


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## just_about_done

True if she's a hoarder. I'm not sure that's been established. My wife is like this to an extent, but she's not a hoarder.


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## that_girl

Are you sure you're not in denial?

I dunno. The way he describes her, it's pretty hoardish imo.


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## just_about_done

His wife may be. I just re-read the OP and I can kinda see where she could be. But, I read it as he has cleaned up the mess before. Maybe not, but he has cleaned her car and didn't mention her freaking out.

I don't think my wife is. I'm not sure if this matters, but she has no problem throwing things out. She's just too lazy to put things away most of the time.


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## turnera

Did her mom pick up after her? If so, you likely won't change her. But you CAN establish rules - especially if it's not touched in a week, it's thrown away.


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## unbelievable

If she were a hoarder, wouldn't she be one at work, too?


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## Mr Blunt

> Both of us are employed in good professional jobs and we make plenty of money



If all else fails consider what I did. After many years of somewhat the same problem I told my wife that I was going to *build on rooms for me and put locks on them and I will be the only one that has the keys*. That went over like a pregnant pole vaulter but I stuck with my plan.


I soften the blow by building her a bathroom and a mini office. Then I put wooden floors throughout the whole house. Finally I built her a store room in the back yard. I live a lot of my life in my rooms so I am no longer affected by her clutter. She has improved quite a bit and we no longer have that issue. Oh I almost forgot. I bought her her own car and she does not drive mine. *I drive in an uncluttered car with a smile on my face. I am here in my private office writing this post and am happy as a clam!*

She did announce that no males are allowed in her new bathroom. I said OK and almost burst out laughing. I would never go in her bathroom, I would rather pee my pants!


*PS
What I did cost a lot less than a divorce and I did not wnat a divorce anyway. problem solved*


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## EleGirl

Get the book "The House That Cleans Itself: 8 Steps to Keep Your Home Twice as Neat in Half" the Time by Mindy Starns Clark (Feb 1, 2013) 

Then the two of you work through it get tame the messy monster


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## 3Xnocharm

Throw it all away. Everything. Shoes, bras, trash...everything. Tell her that every time she leaves something thrown on the floor or piled somewhere, you are throwing it out. If she values anything she owns, then she will need to start paying attention. If she is a hoarder, which I think she sound like she is, then this is probably going to really rock her world, maybe she will seek some help then. I would refuse to live like this, have you watched those hoarder shows on tv?? It can get unlivable.


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## twowheeltravel

You can't make her do anything. All you can do it tell her that you can't live in this cluttered and filthy environment anymore and your not going to let your kids think it's ok to live like that either. The problem is that she sees this as your problem and not a family-marriage problem to be worked out together. If your not getting anywhere on this I would wait for a day she's gone and organize her stuff the best you can. put her stuff in plastic bags or totes and bring it to a rental storage for her to go through at her leisure. Put together some guidlines for what can go back in the house.


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## Mr Blunt

> Bornold (OP)
> I've done everything I can think of to curb this behavior


*Have you thought of building on rooms just for you?*


*This woman is not going to change and the OP does not want a divorce.* Since the OP’s wife states that her housekeeping is his problem then the Op can get his own rooms. If she does not like that then that is her problem.

*
You cannot change people but you can change things for yourself so that you are much better.*


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## twowheeltravel

I remember the days when I would get the unused/ unusable stuff in general out of the house and into the dumpster while she was gone or in the cover of darkness. My youngest would rat me out and she'd go dumpster diving and all that crap was in the house the very next day. (face palm) 

Our house had pathways to walk around and our bedroom was in great contrast My side of the room was neat and clean and her side would have tramped down piles of clothes, papers, decorative baskets full of crafts stuff. etc. (geez.. who could get in a romantic mood with all that debris around you?)

If I moved the bed around I'd find used food plates, tipped over glasses of pepsi and god knows what else. She started spending most of her time in the bedroom and would yell from her bed to communicate with everyone. ( no she wasn't too overweight or sick) I started to refuse to bring food to her bed and made her walk across the bedroom to the dresser to get her pills instead of making the kids her butler and servants. 

She's been gone 5 years and I'm still trying to get the rest of her things out of the house. One time we had a good friend of hers come over and we were going to just tackle the bedroom all together. It was taking too long with her slowly going through her stuff so her friend and I decided to just bring everything out in the living room so the wife could go through it while we cleaned the bedroom. Well that freaked her out and she went hiding in the bathroom balling her eyes out the whole time. It was hard to see but I had to put my foot down and I was sick of complaining to her all my friends and family all these years.

I'm usually a pretty calm guy but when the house would get this chaotic it would put me in a generally agitated state like hearing someone scratch thier fingernails on a blackboard. Soon I'd be snapping at everybody and the general mood in the house would be unsettling.

Funny thing is when she'd come to the house to see the kids she'd see the house and bedroom all clean and painted, decorated nice and everything and she'd have the nerve to say to me " how come you didn't do this when i was living here?" 

I still see her from time to time with her car all loaded up like a wandering gypsy. She's with another guy now and he had to rent a storage unit for her stuff. Poor guy.. I hope he knows what he's getting into.


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## OrangeCrush

unbelievable said:


> Got a digital camera? Photograph the condition she keeps her home and tell her it's going to be posted in cyberspace for her friends' enjoyment unless she gets off her wazoo and picks up. Women are competitive and vicious with each other. Your wife must be pretty competitive to be so well thought of at work. She doesn't go to work looking like garbage. She feels free to live in it because it's only your opinion and that doesn't count.
> 
> Beyond that, quit asking and just hire a maid. Make it a very attractive, very young maid with ridiculously enormous hooters and make sure she is scheduled to arrive when you're there but your wife isn't. Of course, for this tactic to work best, your wife needs to arrive home in time to see this domestic goddess in her home, a huge smile on your face, and her home looking uncharacteristically amazing.


lol!  i like these ideas. funny and clever.

hm...I'm very messy as well - prob not to the extent of your wife, it does gross me out to have moldy food and crumbs and actual DIRT and whatnot, but I'm definitely messy and clutter-y i.e. books and papers and art projects and clothes exploded all over the flat. i'm a scatterbrained artist type and i haaaaaaate to clean. hate. it's the most useless way to waste your time imho. 

But- my H is really neat and mess makes him anxious. oops. We talked about it and decided that I could have the dining nook in our flat as my own and that area can look however I want it to- I can spread out my work, I don't have to clean it up ever, etc. In return, I agree to keep the mess confined to that area and keep the rest of the flat clean for him. That works for us, idk if it would work for you but it's an idea. Maybe your wife can have one room of your house to hoard and dump mess, and it can be contained to just that room.

Also, you can try rearranging your organizational systems to fit your wife's habits- if she drops shoes in the foyer, maybe keeping shoes in the hall closet or on a nice-looking shoe rack by the front door is a better solution than keeping them in the bedroom closet. If she covers the dining table with mail, get a large basket where she can dump it all in there and sit it on the table. I got a nice-looking steamer trunk for my clothes instead of a dresser with drawers, because i hate folding and sorting laundry; I can just dump all the clothes into the trunk instead of leaving the pile of unfolded clothes on the floor where it looks messy. Her car, I wouldn't fight over that if i were you; that's her own space and doesn't affect you very much if you have your own car to keep the way you like it. 

also for us, it was helpful to go minimalist. Radically paring down the amount of stuff I own changed my life (in a good way). Our consumerist society will never tell you this but having too much stuff is overwhelming and suffocating, and most people here have way more than anyone ever needs for happiness. Cleaning isn't so overwhelming and exhausting when you only have a little bit of stuff. Can you plan a whole-family clean-out day, where everyone, your kids also, sorts out their stuff and makes bags for goodwill or a flea market/yard sale? Then hire a cleaning service and start fresh?


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## Toshiba2020

wow i thought my wife was a slob, she uses the stairs as a filing system, bathroom and shower floors are covered with shampoo bottles, cant throw them away, there might be a drop left in them! all of the rooms are the same way, just full of junk. I clean constantly, soon as i get one room taken care of another one gets trashed, just a never ending battle. She gets the habit from her family, and they bring gifts and random crap over every time they visit. I wish i could offer some advice but seeing as im in a similar situation with no progress im in no situation to tell you what to do. I wish you the best of luck and be sure to keep us updated on how its going


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## twowheeltravel

I finally had to tell friends and family to stop bringing stuff over as it was just aggravating the situation and she was all too eager to take people's cast offs,


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Yeah, I understand. My wife is pretty disgusting and unorganized. I really don't like having guests over simply because my house should be declared a federal disaster area ... really nice house that she has destroyed. We now have separate bedrooms and my bedroom is my sanctuary of sanity. It's pretty nice ... it has a very large bath and a walk-in closet that is as big as a bedroom itself and I have converted part of that into a private office. There is also a large unfinished room over the garage that I can access through a door in the closet and use when the temps are moderate. It's like an apartment. I keep it very clean and organized. We have an office downstairs but that is a disaster area. I can clean and organize it and within a matter of a few days, she turns it back into a disaster area. I hate that I have to do that but it was the only way to keep from resenting her ... I don't want to live my life like that ... it just isn't much work to keep things organized if you have good habits. I am not OCD but I do have limits.

Every place she lives is disgusting. Her car is ... filthy ... and I'm constantly finding trash that falls out of her car in the yard ... and of course, she couldn't care less about picking it up. Her room is covered corner to corner with crap on her floor. I don't even go in there. Piles of clothes, clean and dirty ... who can tell the difference ... to go along with all her other stuff.

I used to allow myself to get so angry at her for essentially destroying the really nice house I pay for but ... it's too late. She will not change and I just can't keep harping on her or picking up after her.


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## moxy

Hire an organizer. Get your place organized in a way that your wife can navigate, with labels and a map/guide if needed. Don't throw her stuff out, but let her sort it later. Surprise her.


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## Sanity

My mom developed hoarding while she briefly lived me with me and it caused a lot of problems. When she cooked she made a huge mess (but food was tasty) and would frequently leave dirty dishes in the sink. I would clean the dishes but she did this too frequently and it was starting to attract roaches which absolutely disgust me. 

Hoarding is a progressive mental illness that can literally become life threatening if left unchecked. People with this disease need aggressive intervention. I ended up getting my mom some help and we had a garage sale against her wishes. I would estimate there was at least 5-6K worth of junk she had just laying around the garage that she would never use.


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## Mr Blunt

> I used to allow myself to get so angry at her for essentially destroying the really nice house I pay for but ... it's too late. She will not change and I just can't keep harping on her or picking up after her.


I am glad that you have several rooms and options to help keep your resentments down. *I want to encourage you to find out how you can keep from getting resentments against your wife. Resentments are relationship killers to the MAX!*

Maybe you can do what I did. I made a plan for the future that would include me. That plan included me buying things for me that she would not be able to mess up. That plan kept me going for years then came true.

You have already said that you do not want to divorce so figure out how you can make things better for you and that includes keeping RESENTMENTS to a bare minimum!


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