# What do I do??



## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

You may know me from some of the anguished threads I've posted about my life and marriage. Well, in a strange development, my wife said she didn't want to divorce after all, not so much because she thought we could improve the marriage, but because she didn't want to go through the high-stress, hellish conflict that divorce would bring. She said she would not be able to handle it mentally or physically. Well, that caused a dilemma for me. I don't really want a divorce either, but I was sorta welcoming a breakup because we haven't had any type of sexual contact in years. At first it was because she just wanted to deny me that - but later she developed a chronic physical condition that has made sex impossible. I have a very high sex drive and a deep need for touch and closeness, and I miss and crave sex, love and affection terribly. She is very depressed, angry and ashamed at her inability to have intercourse, and doesn't want to do other sexual things. I brought this issue up to her, asking "What am I supposed to do? What do you expect me to do?" and all she can say is "I don't know." I know that I am not trying to be celibate - I spent too much time in that state as a young man , and I don't want to return to it. I think everyone knows that masturbation isn't really a substitute or a replacement for the real thing. What do you think about this situation?


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## Kingrat (Nov 6, 2010)

Do not get me wrong please. I’m on your side and I believe that she does not want sex because the sex she gets is not worth wanting. 
If she was in bed with George Clooney, she will want it. It is all 100% mental. 
Become her George Clooney. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

What’s stopping you from divorcing her?


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Is she opposed to oral, getting on top and rubbing/riding against you until you cum?

There a ways a couple can be intimate without PIV.

Maybe 69, you each can bring each other off orally.

Spending time together in the shower?

Otherwise, your back to divorce. 

Couples have worked thru no PIV, as long as they both have the right attitude.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> *Is she opposed to oral, getting on top and rubbing/riding against you until you cum?*
> 
> There a ways a couple can be intimate without PIV.
> 
> ...


Well, she doesn't want to get naked because she is ashamed of what her body looks like. I mentioned the bolded, she doesn't seem to want that either.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Kingrat said:


> *Do not get me wrong please. I’m on your side and I believe that she does not want sex because the sex she gets is not worth wanting. *
> If she was in bed with George Clooney, she will want it. It is all 100% mental.
> Become her George Clooney.
> 
> ...


Why do you say that?


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> What’s stopping you from divorcing her?


Aside from the sex part, I never wanted a divorce. She did. I don't want to be away from the kids and also don't want to go through the fight and nastiness of the process.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

ElCanario said:


> Well, she doesn't want to get naked because she is ashamed of what her body looks like. I mentioned the bolded, she doesn't seem to want that either.


Couple of links to give her -

https://forgivenwife.com/he-cant-really-be-happy-with-my-body/

https://forgivenwife.com/new-to-this-blog-start-here/understanding-your-husbands-hurt/


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## Saige (Oct 23, 2011)

ElCanario said:


> You may know me from some of the anguished threads I've posted about my life and marriage. Well, in a strange development, my wife said she didn't want to divorce after all, not so much because she thought we could improve the marriage, but because she didn't want to go through the high-stress, hellish conflict that divorce would bring. She said she would not be able to handle it mentally or physically. Well, that caused a dilemma for me. I don't really want a divorce either, but I was sorta welcoming a breakup because we haven't had any type of sexual contact in years. At first it was because she just wanted to deny me that - but later she developed a chronic physical condition that has made sex impossible. I have a very high sex drive and a deep need for touch and closeness, and I miss and crave sex, love and affection terribly. She is very depressed, angry and ashamed at her inability to have intercourse, and doesn't want to do other sexual things. I brought this issue up to her, asking "What am I supposed to do? What do you expect me to do?" and all she can say is "I don't know." I know that I am not trying to be celibate - I spent too much time in that state as a young man , and I don't want to return to it. I think everyone knows that masturbation isn't really a substitute or a replacement for the real thing. What do you think about this situation?


Staying together because your partner can't deal with the divorce process is a hard pill to swallow. If she hadn't changed her mind, what would you have done?


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Saige said:


> Staying together because your partner can't deal with the divorce process is a hard pill to swallow. If she hadn't changed her mind, what would you have done?


My plan was to hold out until our youngest was out of school (just one more year) - then divorce, reluctantly but definitely.


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## Saige (Oct 23, 2011)

Is it an option to keep divorce on the table? You could maybe work towards an amicable divorce?

If you stick to your original plan, as in give it a year, then divorce, that would give you both a year to give it one final, huge, let's see if we can make it work push. 

Maybe during the year, if you give it 110%, counseling, push outside of both of your comfort zones... it might get you past this. If not, then having that end date, gives you a definite timeline to work with. No sex or intimacy forever is ..gut wrenching and impossible. But, 'I'll give it one more year' is more tangible.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

What is her chronic physical condition?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ElCanario said:


> My plan was to hold out until our youngest was out of school (just one more year) - then divorce, reluctantly but definitely.


Sounds like a plan.Does she know this or even suspect it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Has joint or individual counseling with either a marriage counselor or a sex therapist ever been part of the equation?

As long as infidelity or emotional/physical abuse hasn't occurred between either of you, I do believe it is worth giving it one last try at succeeding!*


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

frusdil said:


> What is her chronic physical condition?




I want to know this also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ElCanario said:


> Well, in a strange development, my wife said she didn't want to divorce after all, not so much because she thought we could improve the marriage, but because she didn't want to go through the high-stress, hellish conflict that divorce would bring. She said she would not be able to handle it mentally or physically.



There are many things in real life that cause stress, conflict, sadness, anger and angst. Parents get sick and die, cars break down, toilets backup, bill collectors want paid, people lose their jobs, get sick, fall out if love and fall in love with others, kids move away, pets chew up expensive shoes and poop on the floor.

We may not want or choose those things to happen, but they do anyway.

This is no different. You do not need her consent or buy-in to divorce.

And both of you can strive to make it as equitable, fair and cooperative as possible. It doesn't have to be a hellish, high-conflict ordeal if you both work towards making it ammicable and cooperative.

If you want to be miserable and hellish, you can just stay married.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ElCanario said:


> Why do you say that?


I'm not Kingrat but what King says is true. 

She isn't sexual with you because she doesn't want to. 

Her Jay-Jay could grow completely shut but if she was sexually attracted to you and it was good for her - she would do whatever she was physically capable and would do it with gusto.

The sexual dynamic between you isn't working and hasn't for a long time. 

If you value intimacy, passion, romance, sexuality and physical affection, you are barking up the wrong tree here. If you value those things and want those things in your life, you have to unyoked yourself from her and find someone else.

If you value conflict avoidance and predictability and status quo more than intimacy and passion, then remain where you are.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm confused. Why does your wife think the divorce process will be nasty and conflict-ridden? There's no reason it has to be. What causes divorce to be high-stress and hellish is the actions of the divorcing couple. A divorce can be as amicable as you both want it to be. If my serial-cheating ex-husband and I could manage an amicable divorce, then surely you and your wife can do it. Two reasonable people who don't want to hurt one another and are interested in simply parting ways in an amicable manner, can absolutely do just that. 

Does she anticipate that you are going to intentionally make the divorce an awful experience? If so, is that a realistic fear? Or, is it that _she's_ planning on making the divorce harder than it needs to be? If so, why?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

She cant have sex, doesn't want to do ANYTHING else to meet you in the middle. Does not want to deal with the stress of divorce. Oh poor me. What is her chronic condition? It matters.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not Kingrat but what King says is true.
> 
> She isn't sexual with you because she doesn't want to.
> 
> ...


Well, like I said, it won't be amicable. She isn't the type of person who likes compromise. She wants everything her way, and she wants to "win" all the time.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I'm confused. Why does your wife think the divorce process will be nasty and conflict-ridden? There's no reason it has to be. What causes divorce to be high-stress and hellish is the actions of the divorcing couple. A divorce can be as amicable as you both want it to be. If my serial-cheating ex-husband and I could manage an amicable divorce, then surely you and your wife can do it. Two reasonable people who don't want to hurt one another and are interested in simply parting ways in an amicable manner, can absolutely do just that.
> 
> Does she anticipate that you are going to intentionally make the divorce an awful experience? If so, is that a realistic fear? O*r, is it that she's planning on making the divorce harder than it needs to be? If so, why?*


Bingo. See above.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> She cant have sex, doesn't want to do ANYTHING else to meet you in the middle. Does not want to deal with the stress of divorce. Oh poor me. What is her chronic condition? It matters.


Not going to specifically mention it, but it is a lymphatic/skin condition that causes lesions and scarring all over the body, including and especially mucous membranes. It continues to get worse the longer someone has it, and there is no cure.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Has joint or individual counseling with either a marriage counselor or a sex therapist ever been part of the equation?
> 
> As long as infidelity or emotional/physical abuse hasn't occurred between either of you, I do believe it is worth giving it one last try at succeeding!*


She refuses to get counseling, as she's one of those superior beings who knows more about everything than any professional.


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## SA2017 (Dec 27, 2016)

ElCanario said:


> Not going to specifically mention it, but it is a lymphatic/skin condition that causes lesions and scarring all over the body, including and especially mucous membranes. It continues to get worse the longer someone has it, and there is no cure.


wow, so she is in pain too?


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

SA2017 said:


> wow, so she is in pain too?


Yeah. Physical and emotional.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ElCanario said:


> Well, like I said, it won't be amicable. She isn't the type of person who likes compromise. She wants everything her way, and she wants to "win" all the time.


Ok. That means her "way" is to have you pay her bills, house, fees and take care of her but yet not have any physical affection or intimacy with you.

And her "win" is to have you accept that and comply with that without complaint or rocking the boat. 

Are you willing to accept that?


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

While my wife would never divorce me for several reasons, deep love being one of them, she did have physical problems that prevented intercourse. Due to that she shied away from sex to avoid feeling that she was not pleasing me during sex. Here is where the deep love kicks in. One night her best girlfriend was staying with us after a long divorce and complaining that she had not had sex in a very long time and was super horny. Out of the blue my wife offers me to solve her problem. We both asked my wife if she was sure because I never asked for anything or anyone but her, and she said she was sure.

Her girlfriend was an old friend of both of us and I even knew her longer than my wife since she is the sister or a childhood friend of mine. We always considered each other family so it did not really feel weird for either of us. After the girlfriend screamed out her orgasm my wife came into the bedroom to ask who died.  Since two of us were naked talking to my fully dressed wife I asked her to join us in bed naked which she did. One thing led to another and we had a threesome with the girls physically expressing their lover for each other. My wife said she has always had fantasies about sex with women, but repressed them as unnatural as she was taught. Plus with her girlfriend not expecting intercourse my wife felt a lot more at ease. Add to that the fact that she was providing mem with a women who could do what my wife could not or did not like to do.

I know to most of the world that this sounds horrible but we spent 30 or the 46+ years of our marring sharing my wife's girlfriend in threesomes. The girlfriend had her own furnished room in our home and would stay with us for a long weekend or 2 weeks each month. Sometimes she lived with us permanently due to a job change or needing to be close to her elderly and sick parents. 

It worked out well for us and made our marriage stronger. Neither of us had sexual frustrations anymore and having two people making love to you at the same time is something you need to experience at least once in your life. We learned that the marriage structure taught to us does not work out well. Would anyone fly on a airplane that had a 50/50 chance of crashing? Yet those are the odds for marriage and people all over the world tie the not every minute of every day. There is a huge difference in living your marriage in a way that best suits the two of you and coloring within the lines.

Just wanted to let you know that there are options and not just the antiquated form of marriage that most flock to that fails more than half of the time. Is how we lived our marriage any crazier than deciding to enter into a monogamous marriage? We cannot argue with success. I think it very illogical to stay married to a woman who does not love you or wants sex with you, simply because divorce is going to be a temporary inconvenience. I do not get your reasons either. How can you two be concerned about the emotional stuff and hatred that comes from divorce when you have nothing right now. If you want to be unhappy for the rest of your life due to fear of a divorce, you are ruining your life for a bad reason. If you two like each other and sharing a home together, you can get around the no sex part by allowing each other freedom to have outside relationships. After all, what does it matter since the worst that can happen I you two get divorced?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

ElCanario said:


> She is very depressed, angry and ashamed at her inability to have intercourse, and doesn't want to do other sexual things.


Foe the record, she's a liar. There are still plenty of sexual things she could do to make you happy, but she doesn't want to. Pretending she's "depressed" or "ashamed" about it is just BS. She knows what the solution is; she's just chosen to lie to you instead, hoping that your sympathy will keep you from bothering her.

Stick to your divorce plan.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Kingrat said:


> Become her George Clooney.


Yes - become even MORE of a lapdog than you are now. Ugh..

Well, I asked this in another thread so I'll ask it here.

Exactly *when *did this woman take possession of your testicles? 

You put up with her *purposefully *denying you sex and intimacy for years, and you sat back and did nothing.

Then, she ups her game and claims that she can't have sex due to some trumped-up medical issue and she feels OH SO BAD that she can't accommodate you sexually - but refuses to offer you any other sexual favors - and you continue to sit back, doing nothing.

Then a divorce is on the table and when you're _finally _seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel, Miss Thang suddenly decides she *doesn't* want to deal with all the effort, the work, the negativity and the expense it brings.

And once AGAIN, you meekly sit back and let her run the show, making all your decisions for you.

So I'll ask again. Where is she keeping your testicles? In a jar by her side of the bed? In her purse? Hanging from the rear-view mirror in her car?

Time to man the hell up and stop letting this woman tell you when to come in out of the rain. Jesus.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

It's tough. I can see where she is feeling pain and needs support. But this is both of your life now. The list of things she won't or does not want to do leaves you pretty out in the cold. If it were me, I would be insisting on counseling. It sucks that she is ill. But, as I said, this is BOTH of you life.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The wolf cares not what the sheep wants


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## SA2017 (Dec 27, 2016)

ElCanario said:


> Yeah. Physical and emotional.



well, you took the vows and here you are ... the bad times. there has to be another option than divorce or cheating.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Vinnydee said:


> While my wife would never divorce me for several reasons, deep love being one of them, she did have physical problems that prevented intercourse. Due to that she shied away from sex to avoid feeling that she was not pleasing me during sex. Here is where the deep love kicks in. One night her best girlfriend was staying with us after a long divorce and complaining that she had not had sex in a very long time and was super horny. Out of the blue my wife offers me to solve her problem. We both asked my wife if she was sure because I never asked for anything or anyone but her, and she said she was sure.
> 
> Her girlfriend was an old friend of both of us and I even knew her longer than my wife since she is the sister or a childhood friend of mine. We always considered each other family so it did not really feel weird for either of us. After the girlfriend screamed out her orgasm my wife came into the bedroom to ask who died.  Since two of us were naked talking to my fully dressed wife I asked her to join us in bed naked which she did. One thing led to another and we had a threesome with the girls physically expressing their lover for each other. My wife said she has always had fantasies about sex with women, but repressed them as unnatural as she was taught. Plus with her girlfriend not expecting intercourse my wife felt a lot more at ease. Add to that the fact that she was providing mem with a women who could do what my wife could not or did not like to do.
> 
> ...


This is a cool story but it would NEVER happen with my wife. 



> Just wanted to let you know that there are options and not just the antiquated form of marriage that most flock to that fails more than half of the time. Is how we lived our marriage any crazier than deciding to enter into a monogamous marriage? We cannot argue with success. I think it very illogical to stay married to a woman who does not love you or wants sex with you, simply because divorce is going to be a temporary inconvenience. I do not get your reasons either. How can you two be concerned about the emotional stuff and hatred that comes from divorce when you have nothing right now. If you want to be unhappy for the rest of your life due to fear of a divorce, you are ruining your life for a bad reason. If you two like each other and sharing a home together, you can get around the no sex part by allowing each other freedom to have outside relationships. After all, what does it matter since the worst that can happen I you two get divorced?


Well, we no longer like each other, but I fear that if we stay together, we will kill each other, and if we start the divorce process, the same will happen. I am only semi-kidding here. There is definitely hate, but we still have kids (well, one is in school and one is a young working adult) to raise. If I leave the house those relationships will be broken, and those kids are all I have left. I have no marriage, no family and no career. My physical and mental health sucks as well. I hate my life but a sudden decision to leave would make things worse. And this woman is not someone for whom "amicable" or "compromise" is in her vocabulary.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ElCanario said:


> This is a cool story but it would NEVER happen with my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we no longer like each other, but I fear that if we stay together, we will kill each other, and if we start the divorce process, the same will happen. I am only semi-kidding here. There is definitely hate, but we still have kids (well, one is in school and one is a young working adult) to raise. If I leave the house those relationships will be broken, and those kids are all I have left. I have no marriage, no family and no career. My physical and mental health sucks as well. I hate my life but a sudden decision to leave would make things worse. And this woman is not someone for whom "amicable" or "compromise" is in her vocabulary.


So what is your answer then since you do not like any of our input?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Before she couldn't, she wouldn't, and now that she can't, she says she regrets it, but won't do other things. How convenient!

Go ahead and divorce her, even if it is stressful. She doesn't care if YOU are stressed, as long as you don't bother her or stress her. Rather selfish?

You WILL almost certainly be far happier once you're out of this sham of a marriage. You have so much to look forward to!


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Before she couldn't, she wouldn't, and now that she can't, she says she regrets it, but won't do other things. How convenient!
> 
> Go ahead and divorce her, even if it is stressful. She doesn't care if YOU are stressed, as long as you don't bother her or stress her. Rather selfish?
> 
> You WILL almost certainly be far happier once you're out of this sham of a marriage. You have so much to look forward to!


I think you are right.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> So what is your answer then since you do not like any of our input?


"Total destruction/the only solution."

- Bob Marley


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

ElCanario said:


> Well, we no longer like each other, but I fear that if we stay together, we will kill each other, and if we start the divorce process, the same will happen. I am only semi-kidding here. There is definitely hate, but *we still have kids (well, one is in school and one is a young working adult) to raise. If I leave the house those relationships will be broken*, and those kids are all I have left. I have no marriage, no family and no career. My physical and mental health sucks as well. I hate my life but a sudden decision to leave would make things worse. And this woman is not someone for whom "amicable" or "compromise" is in her vocabulary.


No. You don't really still have kids to raise. One of your children is an adult. The other is in high school. Basically, you are not dealing with young children here. They are both old enough to understand that your marriage is not healthy or happy and hasn't been in some time. They are also well old enough to decide how much contact they have with their divorced parents. So, why would you assume the relationships with your children would be broken? Do you imagine they are both unintelligent enough that they can't sense what you openly describe as "hate" between you two. Unless they're mentally ill or mentally deficient - and often even then - kids know. Certainly, young adults know. It can't possibly surprise them that you two might divorce. Do you imagine, then, that your wife can actually take your children away from you? They're both nearly grown. She can't take custody of them as if they were toddlers and keep you from seeing them. Why do you seem convinced that divorcing the wife you hate would result in losing your children?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ElCanario said:


> If we stay together, we will kill each other.
> 
> 
> And if we start the divorce process, the same will happen. I am only semi-kidding here.
> ...



It has already started:

The Hate.

The Separation of bodies.
Since she cannot experience pleasure, how dare you expect her to provide you with 'any'.

The Separation of minds. 
This is slow divorce.

The Killing.
She is slowly killing you.

Why?

I suspect she is very bitter about her validly 'poor' health condition and it's diagnosis.

She is taking her bitterness out on the closest thing to her, YOU.

She is like a drowning person, she will pull down a healthy swimmer, anyone near just to remain 'alive'. Her, whole again.

She will go down swinging; hitting any person between the eyes and legs that she can 'reach'.

Step back, take the financial hit. 
It will hurt a lot less then the mental blows; to your ego, to your life.



TRQ-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I suspect some incureable incipient viral infection such as HSV-1. 
A variant of Herpesviral vesicular dermatitis.

If this is true it can be transmitted. She is doing you a favor.
Unless, you too have it and are symptom free?

Is her condition related to an STD? Did you give it to her?

Remember, you are anonymous here.





The Host-


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Rowan said:


> No. You don't really still have kids to raise. One of your children is an adult. The other is in high school. Basically, you are not dealing with young children here. They are both old enough to understand that your marriage is not healthy or happy and hasn't been in some time. They are also well old enough to decide how much contact they have with their divorced parents. So, why would you assume the relationships with your children would be broken? Do you imagine they are both unintelligent enough that they can't sense what you openly describe as "hate" between you two. Unless they're mentally ill or mentally deficient - and often even then - kids know. Certainly, young adults know. It can't possibly surprise them that you two might divorce. Do you imagine, then, that your wife can actually take your children away from you? They're both nearly grown. She can't take custody of them as if they were toddlers and keep you from seeing them. *Why do you seem convinced that divorcing the wife you hate would result in losing your children?*


Because she has spent the entire time we've been together trying to belittle me and turn them against me. She will have custody of the youngest until he leaves for college and will still be largely taking care of him during that time. She can try to keep him away from me as much as she can.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> I suspect some incureable incipient viral infection such as HSV-1.
> A variant of Herpesviral vesicular dermatitis.


Not it.



> If this is true it can be transmitted. She is doing you a favor.
> Unless, you too have it and are symptom free?
> 
> Is her condition related to an STD? Did you give it to her?
> ...








The Host-[/QUOTE]

It is not an STD, and I can't give her anything if 1. I have not had sex with anyone other than her since marriage and 2. we haven't had sex in years.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

ElCanario said:


> Because she has spent the entire time we've been together trying to belittle me and turn them against me. She will have custody of the youngest until he leaves for college and will still be largely taking care of him during that time. She can try to keep him away from me as much as she can.


Do you understand that you need to go buy you a new set of balls? I mean you go get that right? 

Living alone, under a bridge, would be better than staying with her for another moment? 

Really buddy, time to man up...


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

If you stay, then the only thing you will succeed in teaching your children is how to be pathetic. They will learn nothing from you because you are not a worthwhile person. You are just the servant. Invisible.

if you can’t stand up for yourself you can’t be viewed as a role model.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

WilliamM said:


> If you stay, then the only thing you will succeed in teaching your children is how to be pathetic. They will learn nothing from you because you are not a worthwhile person. You are just the servant. Invisible.
> 
> if you can’t stand up for yourself you can’t be viewed as a role model.


Define "stand up for yourself." I don't think you understand this situation.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

You have let yourself be brow beaten into a wanton simp! By "manning up". We are telling you that your wife is using you as a monetary and guardian provider. Nothing more. You have even said it yourself...You hate her. It's time my man. Serve her and let HER self destruct. Not you. You do not matter to her. And her "well being" is not something you should need to worry about. She poisoned the well with your kids? Whatever. The truth always comes out. By living a life that YOU enjoy and feel enriched, you will bring light and happiness around those around you. Right now? You are hiding in a dark cave being eaten alive by insects that wish you harm. 

You are a empathic human being. You desire love, compassion, intimacy and trust. You are getting nothing of it. What is the point? If you truly look at the vows that you took sooo long ago, you will see that she is NOT honoring them..So why stay married. MOVE ON.

Find yourself, find happiness, find another's hand to hold. THAT is truly living. And that will be best for the whole family dynamic.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

You are really to much inside of your own head. Have you been going to counseling yourself to try and deal with your mental & emotional issues? You may find having someone to talk to that is in your corner to help refreshing.

On the other note, you admit you are miserable in your marriage and you "hate" your wife. Strong words and you are still willing to stay and be around her? She sounds completely oppressive. If nobody likes each other and nobody wants a nasty divorce, why not have a calm discussion about divorcing amiably? It's worth a shot. Besides, you mention that you plan to divorce in a year or so anyway. One year is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If you think your kids have not seen what is going on in your house, you are sadly mistaken. They are more than old enough to have made up their own mind about what is happening. Once they are both over 18, other than guilt & money, your wife has no control over where they go or who they see. They might surprise you and you may see them a lot more than you think.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Isn't she the breadwinner? Maybe she doesn't want to pay alimony? She sure isn't staying because she's interested in a real marriage with you. How's that "same old/same old" going to work for you?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

ElCanario said:


> Define "stand up for yourself." I don't think you understand this situation.




You chose a path. You let her statement change your path.

That is a failure to stand up for yourself.

You do not need her permission.

The fact you act as if you do need her to give you permission shows you don’t stand up for yourself.

Much of what you say shows you don’t make your own decisions, but instead allow her to tell you what you will do.

It is my opinion a good role model would be someone who can scoff at ridiculous demands, say no, and easily stand up to any amount of withering attacks geared to attempt to force a person to yield.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

WilliamM said:


> You chose a path. You let her statement change your path.
> 
> That is a failure to stand up for yourself.
> 
> ...


I don't ask anyone's permission to do anything. I just know that doing certain things would cause huge conflict and danger. And that is a threat to peace, stability and life. Believe me, one of the major conflicts in our marriage has been that I _don't_ do what she wants me to do.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Isn't she the breadwinner? Maybe she doesn't want to pay alimony? She sure isn't staying because she's interested in a real marriage with you. How's that "same old/same old" going to work for you?


Yes that's it. She doesn't want to pay alimony. She has not been _the_ breadwinner - but through most of life I haven't been able to make the kind of money I needed to make, and I just lost my job again.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

C3156 said:


> You are really to much inside of your own head. Have you been going to counseling yourself to try and deal with your mental & emotional issues? You may find having someone to talk to that is in your corner to help refreshing.


I have - for years and years. It has kept me alive, but hasn't really fixed my problems.



> On the other note, you admit you are miserable in your marriage and you "hate" your wife. Strong words and you are still willing to stay and be around her?


I just want to be around my kids as long as possible, because I'm sure that after they're gone, I won't have much contact. And I am not looking forward to being alone again.



> She sounds completely oppressive. If nobody likes each other and nobody wants a nasty divorce, why not have a calm discussion about divorcing amiably? It's worth a shot. Besides, you mention that you plan to divorce in a year or so anyway. One year is nothing in the grand scheme of things.


We have had these conversations - but I don't fully trust that she's interested in fairness or amicably breaking. She's more of the scorched-earth type.





> If you think your kids have not seen what is going on in your house, you are sadly mistaken. They are more than old enough to have made up their own mind about what is happening. Once they are both over 18, other than guilt & money, your wife has no control over where they go or who they see. They might surprise you and you may see them a lot more than you think.


You're right. Guilt and money are pretty strong factors though. I see how she's got our oldest (stepson, late 30s) still being a total mama's boy through her manipulations.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> You have let yourself be brow beaten into a wanton simp! By "manning up". We are telling you that your wife is using you as a monetary and guardian provider. Nothing more. You have even said it yourself...You hate her. It's time my man. Serve her and let HER self destruct. Not you. You do not matter to her. And her "well being" is not something you should need to worry about. She poisoned the well with your kids? Whatever. The truth always comes out. By living a life that YOU enjoy and feel enriched, you will bring light and happiness around those around you. Right now? You are hiding in a dark cave being eaten alive by insects that wish you harm.
> 
> You are a empathic human being. You desire love, compassion, intimacy and trust. You are getting nothing of it. What is the point? If you truly look at the vows that you took sooo long ago, you will see that she is NOT honoring them..So why stay married. MOVE ON.
> 
> Find yourself, find happiness, find another's hand to hold. THAT is truly living. And that will be best for the whole family dynamic.


You're (mostly) right here.....I do deep down fear that I will never find anyone else to love though. It took me years to find this one, and I reluctantly married her though I suspected she was not the one, and that I really wasn't ready to do this. But when you don't have a relationship with anyone until you're way out of college, you start to think that it's not in the cards for you.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

nonsense, YOU will always have opportunity to find someone. You have to be willing to let it happen. We all were not born in a vacuum. People desire to be around one another...That is what gives us community. It was mentioned on another site that 7 billion people share this blue ball we call Earth. There are plenty of "someones" out there waiting to find their special someone! 

So, maybe you take a few pointers in dating skills and interpersonal communication. Hell, can't hurt right? I'd be hard pressed not to see any improvement with the "fairer sex" by making a conscientious effort. Mostly, by looking at it OUTSIDE your head and realizing that you do have worth, and it needs to be given to someone who will not squander it.

And I'm sorry but your kids are not going to abandon you. That is just venom being spoken from a damaged relationship! I'm 43 and I still head home to see MOM and DAD as much as possible. Hell, they are usually feeding me and asking me if I need money. lol ---Uh, dad, I'm 43...I give my own kids money. lol


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your wife doesn't respect you. Women don't like to have sex with men they don't respect. She'll not likely to change at this point. 

Weren't you a SAHD part/most of the time your son was growing up? Even if she agreed to that, it still may have been something she couldn't overcome as far as respect goes. 

Now that she's changed her mind about wanting a divorce, it will be up to you as to what happens going forward. You can certainly stay but nothing will really change. Can you continue living that life forever?


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Your wife doesn't respect you. Women don't like to have sex with men they don't respect. She'll not likely to change at this point.


Seems that way. So it seems as if I really should have never married her in the first place, as we were never compatible to begin with.



> Weren't you a SAHD part/most of the time your son was growing up?


Not voluntarily. 



> Even if she agreed to that, it still may have been something she couldn't overcome as far as respect goes.


True, but such is life. This was from about 2002-2010, especially later in the decade after the Wall Street collapse. I had all kinds of ancillary hustles but couldn't get an actual job.



> Now that she's changed her mind about wanting a divorce, it will be up to you as to what happens going forward. You can certainly stay but nothing will really change. Can you continue living that life forever?


No, and I will not.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> nonsense, YOU will always have opportunity to find someone. You have to be willing to let it happen. We all were not born in a vacuum. People desire to be around one another...That is what gives us community. It was mentioned on another site that 7 billion people share this blue ball we call Earth. There are plenty of "someones" out there waiting to find their special someone!
> 
> *So, maybe you take a few pointers in dating skills and interpersonal communication. * Hell, can't hurt right? I'd be hard pressed not to see any improvement with the "fairer sex" by making a conscientious effort. Mostly, by looking at it OUTSIDE your head and realizing that you do have worth, and it needs to be given to someone who will not squander it.
> 
> And I'm sorry but your kids are not going to abandon you. That is just venom being spoken from a damaged relationship! I'm 43 and I still head home to see MOM and DAD as much as possible. Hell, they are usually feeding me and asking me if I need money. lol ---Uh, dad, I'm 43...I give my own kids money. lol


How do you find legitimate help in this area? Not PUA bs or people telling me "Just be yourself!"


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

https://www.skillsyouneed.com/interpersonal-skills.html

Non-PUA type stuff. And your confidence will grow as you practice....


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is one of those tragic marriage situations where your marriage becomes something that no one, ever, could envisage. I mean, who walks down the aisle thinking that it will turn into this?

Given all you've said, let me summarize (?):

1. You don't like one another much at all.
2. The house will very soon be an empty nest.
3. Neither of you wants a divorce, but for different reasons, love not included in the mix.
4. She will take no prisoners if you try to leave and make everyone's life a misery.
5. You have zero sex life and no affection or intimacy.
6. Your W is ill and the illness dooms any future attempt at reviving intimacy; her attitude is toxic to a sex life in any event.

No doubt you can add to this or correct it.

It sounds like you are trapped and if you respond to everyone's suggestions with an 'I can't do that because...,' then you have paralysis.

There are half-measures, however. You can 180 to detach and create more independence for yourself. You can insist on an in-house separation - create a living space in your home that is just yours (and not the basement rec room...).

I would pick one item to commit to and see it through. Gradually detach yourself. This is a tough situation, but you only get one life to live, in my opinion. 'What will you do with your one wild and precious life?'


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> This is one of those tragic marriage situations where your marriage becomes something that no one, ever, could envisage. I mean, who walks down the aisle thinking that it will turn into this?
> 
> Given all you've said, let me summarize (?):
> 
> ...


Thing is, I never expected this either, but I had cold feet the whole time leading up to it. 1 through 6 are spot on; when you lay it out like that it really makes me feel sick. The in-house separation is all but impossible as we live in a tiny bandbox, no basement, four big tall people in a space way too small. I do feel trapped and stuck in so many ways.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ElCanario said:


> You're (mostly) right here.....I do deep down fear that I will never find anyone *else *to love though. It took me years to find this one, and I reluctantly married her though I suspected she was not the one, and that I really wasn't ready to do this. But when you don't have a relationship with anyone until you're way out of college, you start to think that it's not in the cards for you.


 Maybe resetting the way you are thinking about it. You don't really have her to love or love you back. What do you really lose?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Of course the divorce will be scorched earth. Expect it.

That’s what courts are for.

Personally I’ve never seen an amicable divorce. They might talk about it before it starts but then they go for blood. Expect to be stabbed in the back.

Don’t let that stop you.

Stand up for yourself. Divorce her, and laugh at her as she reads the garnishment letter. Fight fire with fire.


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