# Adultery...



## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs. Is it just because affairs are so common these days, or what? An affair would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and there wouldn't be anything for me to be "working through". I could put up with lot from my spouse, but that one would break the marriage contract for me. I'm not talking about an emotional affair, but one that turned into a physical affair would end it. I would forgive her, but I would no longer be married to her (forgiveness does not equal condoning, removal of consequences, or allowing an action to continue). 

I would also expect my wife to do the same thing if I were the one cheating. No double standards here. I would expect to move out and no longer be her husband, and I wouldn't even want her to try to "work through things" with me. In fact, I would gladly step aside and allow her to have a life with someone else who would be more faithful than myself and treat her better than I did. I would want to see my kids, etc. (make legal arrangements for all of that), but I would not expect (or probably even allow) her to continue to be my wife if I broke our contract.

Am I the only one out there with this sort of thinking?


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

eyuop said:


> I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs.



It's a skewed pool that you are working with here. They are here because they want to work on their marriage. This kind of site draws a certain type.

If you wanted to post about cats you would go to talkaboutcats.com

That said I agree with you that an affair is a deal breaker. Enough said. That is my point of take off.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

eyuop said:


> I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs. Is it just because affairs are so common these days, or what? An affair would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and there wouldn't be anything for me to be "working through". I could put up with lot from my spouse, but that one would break the marriage contract for me. I'm not talking about an emotional affair, but one that turned into a physical affair would end it. I would forgive her, but I would no longer be married to her (forgiveness does not equal condoning, removal of consequences, or allowing an action to continue).
> 
> I would also expect my wife to do the same thing if I were the one cheating. No double standards here. I would expect to move out and no longer be her husband, and I wouldn't even want her to try to "work through things" with me. In fact, I would gladly step aside and allow her to have a life with someone else who would be more faithful than myself and treat her better than I did. I would want to see my kids, etc. (make legal arrangements for all of that), but I would not expect (or probably even allow) her to continue to be my wife if I broke our contract.
> 
> Am I the only one out there with this sort of thinking?



This is the way most people think until they are faced with the reality of the disintegration of their family. Then the landscape changes and the tough thinking is put on the back burner. 

So while I say the same thing, I've also been on the other side of this to a degree and now see room for a "never say never" situation.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Going through an affair is a little like being in combat. You don't know what you'd do until you're there. It's easy to say this or that would be a dealbreaker until you're faced with the reality of losing home, kids, plans and dreams you've spent 20 years making. After one has been married a long time to the same person, that becomes one's identity. 
****ing that pistol and pulling the trigger on a marriage isn't always as simple as it sounds, just as talking about shooting someone is much easier than actually doing it.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Good thoughts here. It's funny, since I have taken my STBXW back after her numerous online affairs, BUT I KNOW that if it were I who cheated, she would leave in a heartbeat...she told me as much even though she accepts it as a double-standard. How's that for relational reciprocity..Haha.:scratchhead:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Seriously? ****ing a pistol gets bleeped? Is there some other word to describe the movement of preparing a weapon to be fired? The English language is being slaughtered on the alter of political correctness.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FormerSelf said:


> Good thoughts here. It's funny, since I have taken my STBXW back after her numerous online affairs, BUT I KNOW that if it were I who cheated, she would leave in a heartbeat...she told me as much even though she accepts it as a double-standard. How's that for relational reciprocity..Haha.:scratchhead:


She says that. But the truth is that she has no idea what she would do until it happens. Most of us who reconciled after an affair said that we'd divorce if ever cheated on.


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## Jack99 (Nov 21, 2010)

My aunt would've gladly taken my uncle back after an affair (he probably had a few of them), but he wanted the divorce and married the "other woman." Her health broke and she died far too young. 

If my wife had an affair, I'm not sure I would divorce because of the financial consequences - I'd be forced to pay 1/3 of my income in taxes, 1/3 in alimony, and keep 1/3. In other words, welcome to poverty. I would however use it to justify having an open marriage, which she refuses to do.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I had a friend...hearing her story, knowing them for years.... I encouraged her to stay ...when her church was clamoring for her to leave him...they were Mormons...the way she was treating him wasn't anything to be proud of either...before he fell. 

They worked through that...they are very happy today...family of 6 intact.... no one speaks against cheating with so much emotion like this husband.....these friends have sat with us pouring out their story.. how even to this day he has trouble looking himself in the mirror..he has to live with this...what he did against his wife....and it so thankful for her forgiving him, still loving him. 

I know my friend did the right thing for herself...and her family...he acknowledges she had every right to leave him...he is a changed man today.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack99 said:


> My aunt would've gladly taken my uncle back after an affair (he probably had a few of them), but he wanted the divorce and married the "other woman." Her health broke and she died far too young.
> 
> If my wife had an affair, I'm not sure I would divorce because of the financial consequences - I'd be forced to pay 1/3 of my income in taxes, 1/3 in alimony, and keep 1/3. In other words, welcome to poverty. I would however use it to justify having an open marriage, which she refuses to do.


Alimony is taken out before taxes. So you would pay taxes on what is left after you pay alimony, thus reducing your taxes. Your wife would be paying the taxes on the alimony you give her. 

Get you wife to pursue a career... then you can divorce her without the financial hit.. just a thought.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I had a friend...hearing her story, knowing them for years.... I encouraged her to stay ...when her church was clamoring for her to leave him...they were Mormons...the way she was treating him wasn't anything to be proud of either...before he fell.
> 
> They worked through that...they are very happy today...family of 6 intact.... no one speaks against cheating with so much emotion like this husband.....these friends have sat with us pouring out their story.. how even to this day he has trouble looking himself in the mirror..he has to live with this...what he did against his wife....and it so thankful for her forgiving him, still loving him.
> 
> I know my friend did the right thing for herself...and her family...he acknowledges she had every right to leave him...he is a changed man today.


I'm fine if others make that choice. I just see this as a serious "weight of obligation" issue. The scales would be thrown so far off balance (notice the issue above with the husband looking at himself in the mirror every day) that I could personally find it impossible to be thankful for her forgiving me (even if she would be able to so).


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

eyuop said:


> I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs. Is it just because affairs are so common these days, or what? An affair would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and there wouldn't be anything for me to be "working through". I could put up with lot from my spouse, but that one would break the marriage contract for me. I'm not talking about an emotional affair, but one that turned into a physical affair would end it. I would forgive her, but I would no longer be married to her (forgiveness does not equal condoning, removal of consequences, or allowing an action to continue).
> 
> I would also expect my wife to do the same thing if I were the one cheating. No double standards here. I would expect to move out and no longer be her husband, and I wouldn't even want her to try to "work through things" with me. In fact, I would gladly step aside and allow her to have a life with someone else who would be more faithful than myself and treat her better than I did. I would want to see my kids, etc. (make legal arrangements for all of that), but I would not expect (or probably even allow) her to continue to be my wife if I broke our contract.
> 
> Am I the only one out there with this sort of thinking?


I don't think you are the only one with this school of thinking, however, I might say, there are many marriages in which the partners were so distant, the one who strayed is the one who just did it, often divorce and affairs were in the minds of both parties (at least what I see from my friends)... So I think the reason so many people try to recover from it is because they see their contribution to the fall out of the relationship. IN those situations who one just randomly cheats and they decide to stay, I don't understand those... but I will say, you can say what you would do, but until you have felt like the people in those situations, you never know. I say the same thing.... but then who really knows. If it was during a time in which my husband wasn't getting sex from me and he strayed just for that... depends on how long we went without, if I thought things were good and he just ran off.... screw him. ya know?


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

dogman said:


> This is the way most people think until they are faced with the reality of the disintegration of their family. Then the landscape changes and the tough thinking is put on the back burner.
> 
> So while I say the same thing, I've also been on the other side of this to a degree and now see room for a "never say never" situation.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:
"never say never" 

I've never been in the situation... Does not stop me from shifting through "*C*-*W*-*I*nfidelity" section. I assume that dogman is right. We all have assumitions about what we would, or will do when "X" happens... Life shows us that just because we expect "Y" to be after "X", it does not have to be placed in such order. It goes back to the question of fate over destiny... Which is better?
Stay?
...or....
Go?
When it is your life, your family on the line... Are you so sure you are willing not to fight?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Going through an affair is a little like being in combat. You don't know what you'd do until you're there. It's easy to say this or that would be a dealbreaker until you're faced with the reality of losing home, kids, plans and dreams you've spent 20 years making. After one has been married a long time to the same person, that becomes one's identity.
> ****ing that pistol and pulling the trigger on a marriage isn't always as simple as it sounds, just as talking about shooting someone is much easier than actually doing it.


This is the reality. I used to say I would never stay with a cheater. When the time came, it didn't happen that way.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm here because opposite sex friendships / Emotional Affairs plagued my failed marriage and this time around, I was determined to learn new ways to identify inappropriate relationships and sterilise them.

It's easy to tell someone ELSE to drop that person, move on, you can always frind someone soooooo much better. But I would much rather learn how to manage situations better and then make that call for myself.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

eyuop said:


> Am I the only one out there with this sort of thinking?


No, I pretty much see this the same way although I tried to reconcile with my betraying wife twice before dumping her. 

Intimacy within marriage is quite probably the single most soul satisfying/bonding that human beings have. For one to wantonly betray another by taking this from a marriage and then recreating it with another via lies and deception is unconscionable and completely despicable. 

Now, if people want to reconcile after such a betrayal, then fine, but I'm pretty much a "one strike and your out" type of person. There should be no expectation of a second chance.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> No, I pretty much see this the same way although I tried to reconcile with my betraying wife twice before dumping her.
> 
> Intimacy within marriage is quite probably the single most soul satisfying/bonding that human beings have. For one to wantonly betray another by taking this from a marriage and then recreating it with another via lies and deception is unconscionable and completely despicable.
> 
> Now, if people want to reconcile after such a betrayal, then fine, but I'm pretty much a "one strike and your out" type of person. There should be no expectation of a second chance.


I agree. I suppose there would be a tendency to look at how I would have contributed to the fallout if it ever happened and see it as partially my fault, too. I didn't really think of that. I'm not saying never, but I agree with the "one strike you are out" idea.


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## lonely one (Sep 3, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Going through an affair is a little like being in combat. You don't know what you'd do until you're there. It's easy to say this or that would be a dealbreaker until you're faced with the reality of losing home, kids, plans and dreams you've spent 20 years making. After one has been married a long time to the same person, that becomes one's identity.
> ****ing that pistol and pulling the trigger on a marriage isn't always as simple as it sounds, just as talking about shooting someone is much easier than actually doing it.


I love this post. Finally, someone put into words what I am feeling. Thank you.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

eyuop said:


> I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs. Is it just because affairs are so common these days, or what?


I think that's part of the equation. Generations ago, women wore a scarlet letter if they were exposed in an adulterous affair. Now, they get Oprah to plug their books. Adultery is tolerated and even glamorized.

Also, the laws have changed. Generations ago, if you cheated on your spouse, you got the short end of the stick in an at-fault divorce. No child support. No shared custody. Now, adultery rarely enters the equation in the financial consequences of divorce.

So, we have a culture, and a legal system, that minimizes, and often eliminates, the consequences of infidelity. The unsurprising consequence of that is that we have much more infidelity. So, the matter becomes an issue of choosing the least bad choice. Is it better to divorce and take a big financial hit and be a part-time parent, or is it better to try to reconcile and forgive the unforgivable?


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## Malcolm38 (Dec 25, 2012)

Nothing is as easy as it sounds in theory. 

Honestly, am I in love anymore after my wife screwed around on me? No. 

Am I leery about getting screwed another time in the courts and losing all or partial custody of my daughters? Yes.

Can I just deal with a fractured marriage for another ten years? Maybe

I'm just at a point now where theory isn't that big of a deal anymore. I have real life decisions to make.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*



An affair would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and there wouldn't be anything for me to be "working through"

Click to expand...

*
Eyuop
Your position works for some. 
*Have you been cheated on by your loved one?*

If you have then for me your position has much more credibility. If you have not then your position is just another opinion without having been in the real world of family and adultry. You can give us all the theory you wnat but until you have passed through the fire you just have an opinion with out experience.

Often when a loved one cheats there are all kinds of things t consider. Children being a huge one. Do you think that I am going to let my daughter live under the roof of another man in her youth? That is just one consideration. *Other people have to be taken into consideration not just yourself.*


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah, when it happens (and there's a good chance it will), you might turn into a blubbering baby begging her to choose you and not the OM. I get a good laugh out of posts like this.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I was not married, but my live-in boyfriend of 4 years had a emotional affair. 

When he told me, I did not beg. I did not plead. I told him that as soon as I had the money to leave, I would be gone in 2 days. 

I was true to my word. 

To me, it wasn't about not knowing what I would do if he cheated; it was deciding ahead of time what I would do. I knew he wasn't the kind of person who would want to attempt reconciliation. He would have felt too vulnerable, like I would hold his affiar over his head. I realized that he has made some MAJOR phuck-ups in his life, and at not time did he show remorse or offer an apology. When he told me he was having an affair and ended our r/s, he didn't apologize. He was not remorseful. I knew he cheated on his deceased wife. I knew his father cheated on his mother. I knew he had some issues with alcohol and OTC medicines. The prognosis for us wasn't good...

His attitude has always been "Life's too short". 

He's right. 

Vega


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> Yeah, when it happens (and there's a good chance it will), you might turn into a blubbering baby begging her to choose you and not the OM. I get a good laugh out of posts like this.


You can laugh, but that would not be me. For one, I don't see any affairs on the horizon at all. For two, I would most certainly say to the OM, "You can have her, and she can have you". For three, if I was ever the one to cheat, I would completely expect this would be the end of my marriage. My convictions are very strong. I hope I never have to test my convictions, but for those who know me personally, they would place a lot of money on them.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

Vega said:


> I was not married, but my live-in boyfriend of 4 years had a emotional affair.
> 
> When he told me, I did not beg. I did not plead. I told him that as soon as I had the money to leave, I would be gone in 2 days.
> 
> ...


You sound a lot like me . I've already thought through my response to either scenario (me cheating or her cheating). I'm strategic like that -- and a visionary, too.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

eyuop said:


> I'm amazed at how many married couples on TAM are "working through things" after affairs. Is it just because affairs are so common these days, or what? An affair would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and there wouldn't be anything for me to be "working through". I could put up with lot from my spouse, but that one would break the marriage contract for me. I'm not talking about an emotional affair, but one that turned into a physical affair would end it. I would forgive her, but I would no longer be married to her (forgiveness does not equal condoning, removal of consequences, or allowing an action to continue).
> 
> I would also expect my wife to do the same thing if I were the one cheating. No double standards here. I would expect to move out and no longer be her husband, and I wouldn't even want her to try to "work through things" with me. In fact, I would gladly step aside and allow her to have a life with someone else who would be more faithful than myself and treat her better than I did. I would want to see my kids, etc. (make legal arrangements for all of that), but I would not expect (or probably even allow) her to continue to be my wife if I broke our contract.
> 
> Am I the only one out there with this sort of thinking?


No you are not. I feel the exact same way. If my hubs cheated, then it would be over. Like you there is no double standards. Cheating is not allowed and I just honestly do not see how anyone can work past it and trust that person again.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Like most things in life, the older you get, the less black and white everything seems.

If it's a deal breaker for you, fine. You know your boundaries and will stick to them - at least, you're pretty sure you would. However, it's not a sign of weakness for those who've come to that crossroad and made a different decision. 

Life defies simplistic assumptions and all-or-nothing posturing.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I think that's part of the equation. Generations ago, women wore a scarlet letter if they were exposed in an adulterous affair. Now, they get Oprah to plug their books. Adultery is tolerated and even glamorized.
> 
> Also, the laws have changed. Generations ago, if you cheated on your spouse, you got the short end of the stick in an at-fault divorce. No child support. No shared custody. Now, adultery rarely enters the equation in the financial consequences of divorce.
> 
> So, we have a culture, and a legal system, that minimizes, and often eliminates, the consequences of infidelity. The unsurprising consequence of that is that we have much more infidelity. So, the matter becomes an issue of choosing the least bad choice. Is it better to divorce and take a big financial hit and be a part-time parent, or is it better to try to reconcile and forgive the unforgivable?


:iagree:

In addition to this, I believe affairs damages the self esteem of the innocent party. When the affair is found out, that person is in a state of shock. That's why I believe the best thing to do immediately post discovery is to separate and take some time for yourself and THINK CLEARLY.

I have been on the receiving end of infidelity before I was married. The woman I was in love with was a bombshell. Every man desired her, and I had her in my arms, and in my bed.
My best friend told me numerous times that she was cheating on me which I doubted. We even argued over it.
One day he came to pick me up and told me we were going to check out another vehicle he was interested in purchasing.
A little later, he pulled up in front in front of a house and honked his horn, adn told me to lay low.
A guy came out in the verandah with a towel wrapped around his waist and he went met the guy and started chatting. A little later, my ex came out wrapped in a bath towel , long hair falling on her shoulders and embraced the man with the towel wrapped around his waist.
Bear in mind that she had spent the previous day by me,having torrid sex , in the shower, in the bedroom all over the place.

My friend then came back to his car and he dropped me home.

That night I went to her place and she cooked a meal for me. I ate , went out to the balcony and she followed. She tried to kiss my me, I stopped her. She asked me what was wrong.
I told her I was in " X " car earlier that day.
She didn't know that I knew X.

I told her it was over, she began to beg and cry trying to hug me. I simply pushed her off, told her not to touch me , don't speak to me and never call my number again.

This was a woman I felt so much for and did so much for. We even had plans.
Interestingly enough , I didn't even shed a tear.
I think I felt a sense of relief because the question of if what my best friend was saying was true, was finally answered.
But long before I found out, I told myself that if I ever found out, I would not let it get the better of me.
It was almost as if I had made up my mind exactly how i would deal with it, if it should happen.
That's just the way I used to handle my stuff.

It still is.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_You can laugh, but that would not be me. For one, I don't see any affairs on the horizon at all. For two, I would most certainly say to the OM, "You can have her, and she can have you". For three, if I was ever the one to cheat, I would completely expect this would be the end of my marriage. My convictions are very strong. I hope I never have to test my convictions, but for those who know me personally, they would place a lot of money on them._

If you would handle it that way, I think it's great. I wish I did when it happened to me.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I would however use it to justify having an open marriage, which she refuses to do.


Uh - if that's what you wanted, that should have been the rules of the relationship from the beginning. But - trying to say after the fact, is in essence trying to redefine the definition of adultery that you agreed with.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Starstarfish said:


> Uh - if that's what you wanted, that should have been the rules of the relationship from the beginning. But - trying to say after the fact, is in essence trying to redefine the definition of adultery that you agreed with.


I disagree. If one's wife refuses to abide by the marriage contract, then I don't agree with trying to hold the husband to the same contract that the wife just voided.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I wasn't talking about in case she actually cheated. But "she refuses to do" indicates that's it been a topic of conversation before. Irregardless of cheating, it makes it sound like he's almost hoping she'll cheat so he'll have the standing to press that request.


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

My experience has been a little different. I always kept an open mind about what I would do if my wife cheated, but I didn't think about too much because it just didn't seem possible.

After her weird little EA with a co-worker, my emotional world fell apart. In the grand scheme of things, it was pretty minor, but I lost all faith in my wife and our marriage. It took a long time to get to the point I am today, but one of the things I realized is that I never want to do it again.

I don't want to worry about what she's up to when I'm not there.

I don't want to question why she's glued to her phone, or on Facebook so much, or who she's texting.

I don't want to wonder if she's having feelings for another person, or fantasizing about him.

I don't want to feel that sense of dread that she's probably lying or hiding something or trying to play me.

Never again. So, I won't, and I told her that. I'm not doing it again. This is her one chance, and it will always be.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

For all of you people that advocate divorcing and walking away the first time adultery happens, I have a few questions for you:
*1	How many of you have actually experienced adultery and have had children involved? 



2	Is your high moral stance ( no 2nd chances) more about you or your children?*


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> For all of you people that advocate divorcing and walking away the first time adultery happens, I have a few questions for you:
> *1	How many of you have actually experienced adultery and have had children involved?
> 
> 
> ...


1) I have never knowingly been cheated on and have never cheated.

2) If I ever found myself in such an awful position I would end the relationship because of my moral stance on the issue. I have a zero tolerance for cheaters.
It would also be about protecting myself and my self esteem. If I am not good enough for a man then they are not good enough for me, simple. It is a very B&W issue for me but I fully understand that this is different for everyone.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> For all of you people that advocate divorcing and walking away the first time adultery happens, I have a few questions for you:
> *1	How many of you have actually experienced adultery and have had children involved?
> 
> 
> ...


1. I had a teenage daughter from a previous marriage and HE had pre-teen daughter who I grew close to. 

2. I don't think i have a moral stance that's unreasonably 'high'. Just like people may have a zero-tolerance for alcoholism in marriage, I have a zero-tolerance for cheating. 

I already know that I couldn't stomach the fighting, arguing, trickle-truth, manipulations, demands for his privacy, refusal to 'tell all', begging, pleading, etc. 

I don't see someone who leaves immediately as "weak", nor do I see someone who stays for the kids as 'weak', either. 

But if someone DOES decide to stay--and if they're cheated on AGAIN after that (...or if it's discovered that the WS never STOPPED cheating), it's time for the BS to go...for his or her OWN sanity.

Vega


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Hypothetical situations make us feel more heroic. I get that.

Previous to Dday, I was extremely against cheating because, well...my first wife cheated on me. I gave her a second chance, and within a year I caught her with the guy in a bar. I left my ring on the bar, hopped on my motorcycle and never looked back.

I swore I would never let that happen again.

Until it did.

Now, if I had been in that theater in Colorado when that guy came in shooting people...and if I had had MY gun with me, I would have stood up and sheltered people with my own body while unloading the clip of my Glock 19 without fear.

Yeah.

Right.

Heroism in our brain rarely comes out the way we envision when we suddenly find ourselves knee deep in a bloody trench.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> It was almost as if I had made up my mind exactly how i would deal with it, if it should happen.
> That's just the way I used to handle my stuff.
> 
> It still is.


Some have strong boundaries that don't get shaken very easily. They abide by their own rules, even if it means charting unknown territory and breaking out of such a relationship. 
Some get tossed around by other's choices and wants, unable to act upon their own set of rules. 
Infidelity is just another reality of the world where one has to look inside and establish (and of course act upon) their own set of rules.

Ain't got nothing to do with hypothethicals or heroism.

But I do think kids are a reason for a second chance.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

I agree with the OP 100%.

I divorced my first wife for something less than cheating. After a while, she offered no affection. None. Not even a hug. I ended it because the marriage was dead on the vine. I had given it many years before I finally gave up on it.

If she had cheated, it would have been the same thing, only much faster and more dramatic, but the message would have been the same: "We are through. I want others."

Would my wife cheating on me cause me to unconditionally pull the plug? Of course. "Once a cheater, always a cheater". Don't believe it? Just look at that clusterf*** called Hollywood 

Cheetahs don't change their spots, and cheaters don't change their ways. They might put them aside for awhile, but they always go back to their ways.

I have never cheated, and I expect the same from my spouse. Cheat, and you'll no longer be my spouse.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ya know, I can say "I'd divorce" all I like right now. But in reality, I really don't know. I used to say ANY cheating and I'd be gone...as did my husband. And yet, emotional cheating occurred on both sides, and we're still together. Some see the two as COMPLETELY different. Well, maybe. But it's still cheating, right? So, like i said, I SAY I'd divorce if he was sexually involved with someone else, as would he say the same. But in reality, we don't know. And I pray we never do.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

"Once a cheater..."

To me that is a sad way to live life. One without redemption.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> "Once a cheater..."
> 
> To me that is a sad way to live life. One without redemption.


What is sadder is a spouse who doesn't honor their marriage vows. 

Would you get rid of a dog as a pet around your infant son, or daughter, if it had once bitten them? Or would you give that dog "redemption" and forgive it?


(I thought so.)


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> What is sadder is a spouse who doesn't honor their marriage vows.
> 
> Would you get rid of a dog as a pet around your infant son, or daughter, if it had once bitten them? Or would you give that dog "redemption" and forgive it?
> 
> ...


Yeah...but we're not talking about a dog are we? We're talking about the human experience.

For me, a life without hope or redemption seems empty.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> "Once a cheater..."
> 
> To me that is a sad way to live life. One without redemption.


I'm with you Dig. 
Is that kinda like once an alcoholic always an alcoholic, even if you never have a drink again? 
Then if it is, it would mean once an a$$hole always an A$$hole. If this is true there's no motivation for improvement because ill never live anything down. The truth is I've been an a$$hole in the past. I hope to not always be one though. 

I realize that some people need to say this though to justify extreme action, which is their right when cheated on.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Terry_CO said:


> What is sadder is a spouse who doesn't honor their marriage vows.
> 
> Would you get rid of a dog as a pet around your infant son, or daughter, if it had once bitten them? Or would you give that dog "redemption" and forgive it?
> 
> ...


Really? So a person can't redeem him/herself? Ever? Sad way of thinking, IMO. So glad I didn't think of my husband as a dog biting a child.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dogman said:


> I'm with you Dig.
> *Is that kinda like once an alcoholic always an alcoholic, even if you never have a drink again? *
> Then if it is, it would mean once an a$$hole always an A$$hole. If this is true there's no motivation for improvement because ill never live anything down. The truth is I've been an a$$hole in the past. I hope to not always be one though.
> 
> I realize that some people need to say this though to justify extreme action, which is their right when cheated on.


Hold on a second. I think some clarification is needed here.

Look, a cheater will always be a cheater in the sense that they have cheated, so the label sticks. Does it mean they will cheat in the future? Only if they don't establish, and stick to, boundaries.

Same with an alcoholic. They will always be an alcoholic. Why? Because they know that if they take a drink, they will not stop. The label sticks, even if the life changes. 

Here's the thing though... They CAN change... but they have to stick to the boundaries they establish.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Different strokes for different folks I guess but I can unequivocally say that from past experience it would be a deal breaker regardless of children or financial impact. I saw my mom deal with my fathers infidelity countless times and the pain she endured just to keep her family. Its sad to see a person broken down like that when they give their love and soul into their family. 

I have personally been cheated on and caught them in the act. Guy thought I was going to kick his ass to which I laughed and said "you can have the *****" and walked away. Its really that simple and black and white for me. In fact when I was mulling divorce from my abusive exw, I was hoping she was cheating to make the decision clearer for me. Terrible no?


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## candy12 (Apr 22, 2013)

Terry_CO said:


> Would you get rid of a dog as a pet around your infant son, or daughter, if it had once bitten them? Or would you give that dog "redemption" and forgive it?


Just curious, would you "get rid" of a human child who bit or in some way physically harmed your other child or would you give "redemption"?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

candy12 said:


> Just curious, would you "get rid" of a human child who bit or in some way physically harmed your other child or would you give "redemption"?


I actually became good friends with the kid who bit me when we were kids.

I forgave him.

Maybe I shouldn't have. I mean...once a biter, always a biter.


Luckily, he never bit me again


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

candy12 said:


> Just curious, would you "get rid" of a human child who bit or in some way physically harmed your other child or would you give "redemption"?


Funny you ask this. My SIL is certificated in special needs children. Her school district chose to mainstream them to the extent possible.

One was diagnosed with ADHD and whose parents refused to use the drugs on him --except when they had to spend whole days with him-- attacked his classmates at lunch time with a fork.

If you were the school principal, what would you do?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> I actually became good friends with the kid who bit me when we were kids.
> 
> I forgave him.
> 
> ...


But... but... I thought biting was GOOD! I'm so confused....

Oh, wait... wrong thread.


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## candy12 (Apr 22, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Funny you ask this. My SIL is certificated in special needs children. Her school district chose to mainstream them to the extent possible.
> 
> One was diagnosed with ADHD and whose parents refused to use the drugs on him --except when they had to spend whole days with him-- attacked his classmates at lunch time with a fork.
> 
> If you were the school principal, what would you do?


Sounds like this kid has bigger issues than ADHD which is not associated with violence.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

candy12 said:


> Sounds like this kid* has bigger issues than ADHD which is not associated with violence*.


Please elaborate.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Let's not elaborate. The thread is about how some would not reconcile after an affair and not about adhd, its diagnoses or the inherent issues associated with it.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Sadly, I am in the category of Mr. Double Standard on this issue. I would want to forgive but I couldn't. She would certainly deserve a second chance because she didn't leave me when I cheated. But there are two things I couldn't get past. 

1) Just the general thought of her being with someone else is just too icky for me. I could forgive her but I could never be intimate with her again, so what would be the point of staying married?

2) Knowing her as well as I do, if she did indeed decide to cheat, she most likely has feelings for the guy. So in that case it would be pointless trying to win her back.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By RefromedHubby
> Sadly, I am in the category of Mr. Double Standard on this issue. I would want to forgive but I couldn't. She would certainly deserve a second chance because she didn't leave me when I cheated. But there are two things I couldn't get past.
> 
> 1) Just the general thought of her being with someone else is just too icky for me. I could forgive her but I could never be intimate with her again, so what would be the point of staying married?
> ...



Mr. Double Standard
I will give u you credit for at least being honest.

I wonder how many other people who have said that they would not give their spouse a second chance even if they were remorseful and changing would be as honest as you?

I guess the golden rule is not good enough for some.

The bottom line for me is that some people want a second chance when they screw up but if someone else screws up *NO SECOND CHANCE FOR OTHERS ONLY ME*


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Heroism in our brain rarely comes out the way we envision when we suddenly find ourselves knee deep in a bloody trench.


Frankly speaking I can't see how an adulterous situation can be compared to a full scale massacre at a public place perpetrated on innocent people , and any heroic act.

So I don't see your point there.

Heroism often involves risking ones life to save another, or denying oneself to achieve a higher , noble purpose.
And how does walking away from an unfaithful spouse equate running into a burning building and rescuing a trapped child or dodging bullets on the frontline to save a wounded comrade?

Horrible juxtaposition.

Some people are just stating before hand that they would not tolerate cheating under any condition , and it will be a dealbreaker _for them_.
And what is wrong if they make that decision for themselves _beforehand_?
And who says that they cannot have a change of heart based on the situation when faced with it?
And if they decide , when faced with that decision to stick with their default setting , of no second chance with adultery, who are we, either you or me to judge them?

You choose the path at that point you were faced with adultery in your marriage , what makes you feel or gives you the authority to say that someone else would not, or cannot choose a different path when faced with a similar situation in their marriage?
In any event,
Is the dynamics in your marriage the exact , same dynamic in any other poster on this thread , those who agree with reconciliation and those against?

fascinating.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> I wonder how many other people who have said that they would not give their spouse a second chance even if they were remorseful and changing would be as honest as you?


Hmmm, implications of dishonesty, grrrreat.

My name ain't Captain-Save-A-Ho or White Knight Sir Chumalot. Thus I wouldn't wait for someone to change or be remorseful, unless there were extra situations, like children, making me more invested in the relationship/marriage. Marriage/LTRs is something that works best when between two mentally stable and healthy people and I care about myself too much to waste time upon one that isn't between such two parties.

I also care a lot about my words and integrity, thus I can honestly say even in the face of temptation I didn't/wouldn't cheat. But since we're doing hypotheticals and I don't get a chance to say "No, I would never cheat"; if I cheated that means I have broken my word and that is inexcusable for me. Even if my hypothetical SO wanted to forgive me and move on without breaking up, I wouldn't(unless again there were extra situations)

I take my integrity, my boundaries and my emotional connections very seriously. You get only one chance to live, unless I'm making the best of it by being true to myself, what the hell am I living for?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Heroism often involves risking ones life to save another, or denying oneself to achieve a higher , noble purpose.
> And how does walking away from an unfaithful spouse equate running into a burning building and rescuing a trapped child or dodging bullets on the frontline to save a wounded comrade?
> 
> Horrible juxtaposition.


Really...I like the sarcastic rolling eyes bit CM...I expected a bit more from you, but - okay.

You know, as well as I do, that this whole "I would NOT accept ____" is a paper tiger argument. Just as much as my heroic deed is a silly notion.

What remains to be seen is that EVERYONE enjoys _saying_ what they'd do ~ until they are in a given situation. It is quite brave to tell others how to act when they themselves have not had their mettle tested. Would I expect to tell YOU how to react to a hurricane threatening your way of life, when all I've ever dealt with is a few feet of snow during the winter? No. The same as someone the other day harshed on me because I said much the same as I'm saying now, but he deals with an autistic child and tried to link my commentary into that. I would NEVER in my life begin to think that I had any kind of words of how he could do better as a parent or how he should rear such a child. That is preposterous. I know my limitations.

Unfortunately, some at TAM do not.

EDIT to add: Those who state what would be a deal breaker _beforehand_ honestly cannot SAY how they would react when the levy breaks.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> EDIT to add: Those who state what would be a deal breaker _beforehand_ honestly cannot SAY how they would react when the levy breaks.


Why NOT?

It's pretty simple, you fck another dude(or text hump him or whatever equivalent of cheating there is), you're out.

I'll crack open a beer and wait until a better person who will not take me or what I bring to a relationship for granted enters my life.

Or is it scary to you that people have strong boundaries that they won't compromise upon?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

LMAO... Scary? No. What I see is some who claim the throne but have no lineage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

If anyone wants to turn this into an integrity thread, lets start a new one. I've got plenty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> LMAO... Scary? No. What I see is some who claim the throne but have no lineage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it's so hard for you to believe that people have clear boundaries about what they do and do not accept, maybe it's because you don't have them. Just saying.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Personally for my I would have to (and have in the past) end a relationship with a cheater.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> If it's so hard for you to believe that people have clear boundaries about what they do and do not accept, maybe it's because you don't have them. Just saying.


Certainly knowing yourself and what you'll allow is a virtue, but like most things, black and white stances don't allow for the inevitable shades of gray that represent real life.

It's the position in my own travels that I've seen the most in the young and inexperienced who think they have all of the answers.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> If it's so hard for you to believe that people have clear boundaries about what they do and do not accept, maybe it's because you don't have them. Just saying.


You have no idea of my boundaries, bud. Not a clue. So, don't insult me with this kind of horse sh-t.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

I thought I would be angry and want to kill the other man if it happened. Instead I had no feeling whatever towards him. A non-entity.

I did tell my wife I would stay married if she admitted fully, broke contact 100%, and went to marriage counseling.

And I gave her a very generous 48 hours before filing. She went down all the way to filing refusing to admit it was going on, even after catching her spending the night with him. After filing she decided to tell me she had just then started an affair with him. I burst out laughing and she punched me in the face. She was a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and caught me off guard. Wham-o!


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Certainly knowing yourself and what you'll allow is a virtue, but like most things, black and white stances don't allow for the inevitable shades of gray that represent real life.


I agree with "there are gray areas in life"...

But I feel that being uncertain, indecisive, lacking the ability to act upon your self established boundaries creates a lot more grays than there ought to be.

Also I may be young, but unfortunately I am not inexperienced about cheating. Sucks.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I agree with "there are gray areas in life"...
> 
> But I feel that being uncertain, indecisive, lacking the ability to act upon your self established boundaries creates a lot more grays than there ought to be.
> 
> Also I may be young, but unfortunately I am not inexperienced about cheating. Sucks.


Well, that's a horse of a different color. Boundaries learned in the school of hard knocks are on a completely different footing than those that are hypothetical.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> You have no idea of my boundaries, bud. Not a clue. So, don't insult me with this kind of horse sh-t.


It is so interesting that it isn't an insult when you try to make fun of other posters' self-professed boundaries. Ah well.

Anyway, thread jack off, OP asked an important question and people want to read more informative stuff than two posters squibbling.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Well, that's a horse of a different color. Boundaries learned in the school of hard knocks are on a completely different footing than those that are hypothetical.


Actually I learnt my boundaries about cheating in "the school of hard knocks". Again, unfortunately.

But that doesn't make someone having boundaries based on hypotheticals any less valid. It is literally impossible to have experienced everything you might encounter in life beforehand. Your own set of rules are the only thing that keeps you mentally stable when you encounter some utter bullsh!t that shouldn't be happening. (Meaning of course you should be basing your set of rules/boundaries etc etc on tangible stuff, information, your own limits etc.)


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Well, that's a horse of a different color. Boundaries learned in the school of hard knocks are on a completely different footing than those that are hypothetical.


They don't get that Cletus. Instead, they attempt to draw a line in the sand that will get washed away by the tide.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> It is so interesting that it isn't an insult when you try to make fun of other posters' self-professed boundaries. Ah well.
> 
> Anyway, thread jack off, OP asked an important question and people want to read more informative stuff than two posters squibbling.


Where did I make fun of anything or insult anyone's integrity? I simply stated that people who say they would do X when they've never been tested may choose a different path when actually faced with it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> You know, as well as I do, that this whole "I would NOT accept ____" is a paper tiger argument.


All I'm and everyone else is saying is that people react DIFFERENTLY when the levée breaks.
Some can swim , some have boats , some have good insurance and till ,some choose to stay , come hell or high water.

The point is , you choose to stay_ and it worked out for you_.
Right here on TAM there are tons of stories of men and women who stayed,and it didn't work out._ It just got worse_.

I can tell you of two couples, one who stayed , and it didn't work out. One day his wife mistakenly sent a text to my wife, intended for the OM ,recounting their latest sexual rendezvous whilst on business in Miami. That happened _after they had reconciled._

The other couple , the woman stayed, and things worked out.

Each situation is different.

Given that fact, I think many here have read the stories , and are familiar with the scripts.
So don't you think that makes them empowered enough to make a decision beforehand?
Don't you think that many who have read the threads now know that any marriage could be a victim of adultery?
Could it be possible that people have learnt from people like you who have posted their stories , and have done the necessary mental adjustments?
In other words, we all now realize that _it could happen to us_?
I say to think otherwise , would be to severely underestimate our intelligence , and our ability to handle crisis.

Every situation is different, and people have the ability to respond in ways they never thought they had the capacity to , when the " adrenaline " kicks in.

In your case when the levée broke and the adrenaline kicked in, you stayed and tackled it head on , and won.

In another man's case like BFF on this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html

, he walked ,faced many hurdles and obstacles,and _still_ won. Early in his thread, before he knew for sure there was adultery, he said publicly that if it turned out that she was cheating, he would walk.

People choose to do what they want to , based on the circumstances. Doesn't automatically make them a hero, 
Or a coward.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Whichever another chooses is their path, CM. If someone chooses to divorce rather than reconcile, I would stand behind them as infidelity is a harsh beast. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

However, how many truly stand behind the betrayed who says he initially wants to try? I see far more people harshing on that spouse. Do you deny such?

I was lucky, if you wanna call it that, that Regret did the right thing. Not all of them do. Yet, we cannot force feed someone who wants to try. I don't see you guys all over LetDownNTX for staying with a spouse who is obviously unrepentant. Why is that? Because she is a woman?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> They don't get that Cletus. Instead, they attempt to draw a line in the sand that will get washed away by the tide.


......or is it that you don't get that _everybody is different_, and would respond differently, even if they were in your same, identical, exact , situation?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> ......or is it that you don't get that _everybody is different_, and would respond differently, even if they were in your same, identical, exact , situation?


:iagree:

Or is it that for some people, those "lines in the sand" aren't as easily washable as others?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> However, how many truly stand behind the betrayed who says he initially wants to try? I see far more people harshing on that spouse. Do you deny such?


So do you really expect any self respecting wife or husband to say upfront that they would accept their spouses infidelity and work it out?

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that some people cannot deal with the aftermath of infidelity , and would rather walk ?

Its _their sanity_ at stake.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Or is it that for some people, those "lines in the sand" aren't as easily washable as others?


My point^^^exactly.
We are all ifferent.
This has absolutely nothing to do with "_school of hard knocks_."


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

LMAO. Both of ya's. Feeding frenzy of TAM. Gotta love man-love.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My point^^^exactly.
> We are all ifferent.
> This has absolutely nothing to do with "_school of hard knocks_."


Sure it does. Life teaches you that you learn as you go. 

Speaking only for myself and for the people I've known in my life, which includes a couple of alcoholics and a paranoid schizophrenic, life has taught me that those lines are often not as firm as we thought they were when we drew them.

Drawing them is fine. Adhering to them is fine. Understanding that when life brings you up short against them, you might shuffle a little sand over one or two, and all that means is that you lacked information when you first dragged the stick is invaluable.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> LMAO. Both of ya's. Feeding frenzy of TAM. Gotta love man-love.


Haha, nice, trying to ridicule valid points. But obviously again it's not insulting when you do it, it's just good old fashioned fun.

Again, I adhere to what I say. You try to ridicule people with clear, concise boundaries, because you have shaky ones that wobble with your every step. 

But you are who you are, I guess.

Edit: And besides who the hell doesn't love CM?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Again, I haven't ridiculed anyone or insulted anyone like you have. I haven't done that with ANYONE with clear boundaries. I have simply stated on more than one occasion that you can say what you will do ~ however, until you're in the situation you can't know how you truly would react. That is not ridiculing.

You guys can't even answer the honest question of why haven't you forcefed your stuff to LetDownNTX or any other WOMAN who has come here in crisis or with an unrepentant spouse.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Sure it does. Life teaches you that you learn as you go.
> 
> Speaking only for myself and for the people I've known in my life, which includes a couple of alcoholics and a paranoid schizophrenic, life has taught me that those lines are often not as firm as we thought they were when we drew them.
> 
> Drawing them is fine. Adhering to them is fine. Understanding that when life brings you up short against them, you might shuffle a little sand over one or two, and all that means is that you lacked information when you first dragged the stick is invaluable.


Sooooo,

1] You are married and love your wife
2] You think everything is ok, save a few ups and downs.
3] You both have no kids and your accounts are separate
4]She decides to have a sexual affair with another man
5]You found out.

Exactly what information is lacking there?
The gory details of the actual sex acts?
That she lied to you?
That she fooled you into thinking that things were ok when they were not?

Tell me,
What information is lacking..,except that you never expected to become part of the " victim / drama triangle theory?"

Sorry man,
Nobody's pulling me into any "drama triangle." Nobody's gonna make me a victim more than once.


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## January (Jan 5, 2013)

I always said that an affair would be a deal breaker in my marriage. Then my (ex) husband cheated and I found myself waging a 2 year long battle to restore our marriage. We got back together but he cheated again. I divorced him.

I would not stay in a relationship if it happened again. And I can say that because I've been through it. But, you never really know what you would do until you have been through it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

January said:


> I always said that an affair would be a deal breaker in my marriage. Then my (ex) husband cheated and I found myself waging a 2 year long battle to restore our marriage. We got back together but he cheated again. I divorced him.
> 
> I would not stay in a relationship if it happened again. And I can say that because I've been through it. But, you never really know what you would do until you have been through it.


.....and I went through it with another woman , before I was married to my wife.
And I walked away from her.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why does this subject continue to harass those of us who have chosen R, and are being successful at it? Especially as perpetrated by those who have never experienced infidelity and therefore really don't have an effing clue?

It's like my childless brother trying to tell me how to raise my kids. You can read all the books you want, attend all the classes, even babysit, but until it is YOUR CHILD in front of you misbehaving, you don't really know what you're going to do or how you're going to react.

Some people can R, some can't. There's nothing wrong with that. but telling those of us who do R that we aren't self respecting and we have shaky boundaries and other such drivel is really quite condescending and insulting.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> You guys can't even answer the honest question of why haven't you forcefed your stuff to LetDownNTX or any other WOMAN who has come here in crisis or with an unrepentant spouse.


LOL,
Forcefeed?

I don't force feed anybody man.
That's not my style.

I know _me_.
That's enough for me.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Why does this subject continue to harass those of us who have chosen R, and are being successful at it? Especially as perpetrated by those who have never experienced infidelity and therefore really don't have an effing clue?
> 
> It's like my childless brother trying to tell me how to raise my kids. You can read all the books you want, attend all the classes, even babysit, but until it is YOUR CHILD in front of you misbehaving, you don't really know what you're going to do or how you're going to react.
> 
> Some people can R, some can't. There's nothing wrong with that. but telling those of us who do R that we aren't self respecting and we have shaky boundaries and other such drivel is really quite condescending and insulting.


I didn't see anybody here harassing people who choose to reconcile.
In fact, I saw one person labelling others who said that they wouldn't go that way if faced with adultery as not knowing what they were talking about ,and calling them " heroes " in a derogative manner.
To me, that is extremely condescending and insulting.

As both you and I said , everybody can decide what they want to do, and if they _personally_, can survive infidelity.

Some could , some can't.
It all depends on the individual cases.

Given that fact, this entire argument is pointless.
This thread would have been much better if those for, say exactly why they did it and how they were able to, and those against, say exactly why they don't think they can't,, just like the third poster above did.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Some people can R, some can't. There's nothing wrong with that. but telling those of us who do R that we aren't self respecting and we have shaky boundaries and other such drivel is really quite condescending and insulting.


Actually, what I have found condescending is people ridiculed because they stated they wouldn't stay in a marriage where they have been cheated on. You know their "heroism" is worthless because they will instantly change their stance because "they haven't had their mettle tested." 



Hope1964 said:


> Why does this subject continue to harass those of us who have chosen R, and are being successful at it? Especially as perpetrated by those who have never experienced infidelity and therefore really don't have an effing clue?


Gimme a break. I have stated I have experienced infidelity. I know my stance, OP asked a question that nobody is forced to answer, some people answered and that is harassing?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sooooo,
> 
> 1] You are married and love your wife
> 2] You think everything is ok, save a few ups and downs.
> ...


What's lacking is why. Was I complicit? What made her think that the only way to remedy the situation was to go outside the marriage? What's missing is the pertinent relationship details.

MAYBE it's something we could patch up, and maybe not, but the simple fact that it happened isn't enough to tell me what the right approach is to resolving it. Other considerations, including finances, children, and living arrangements might make me more or less motivated to try to recover. This is the position many find themselves in when the hypothetical becomes the reality.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> OP asked a question that nobody is forced to answer, some people answered and that is harassing?


Exactly....


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> You guys can't even answer the honest question of why haven't you forcefed your stuff to LetDownNTX or any other WOMAN who has come here in crisis or with an unrepentant spouse.


Hmmm, who is this poster and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

But you're not here to talk about the topic at hand. Seems you just have an axe to grind. Good for you.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> What's lacking is why. Was I complicit? What made her think that the only way to remedy the situation was to go outside the marriage? What's missing is the pertinent relationship details.


That's the exact reason why I said before that nobody's going to make me a victim more than once.
It is not my duty to try figure out why the other person cheated.
The only reason for cheating is selfishness.
I am not responsible for my partner's infidelity neither is she responsible for mine.
If she was not happy, then she could have told me so, or just ask for a divorce.
If she asks for a divorce and has made up her mind, then I'm man enough to accept my responsibility , if I am at fault.

There is absolutely no justifiable reason for cheating.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ok, look. Shadow Nirvana and Caribbean Man... you BOTH have gone through it. So, you DO know how you would react because... *gasp* YOU DID IT! What Dig has been trying to say is that people will often say "I will NEVER put up with cheating. I will NEVER reconcile. I will KICK HIM/HER TO THE CURB!"... and yet, MANY times, they waver. It doesn't matter WHY they waver... but they DO. Sometimes, they stick by what they say they would do. And you know what? That's perfectly ok as well. Dig isn't saying that those who choose to divorce are stupid or anything like that. He also doesn't insult them about their boundaries. 

Anyone can say, in a hypothetical situation, that they would react a certain way... however, unless/until that situation presents itself, they really DON'T know for certain, until they make that choice. They have a STRONG IDEA that they will react/behave that way. But, until placed in that circumstance, they don't know with absolute certainty. That's all Dig has been trying to say this whole time. And he's right. No one knows with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, until placed in the situation. And, I really hope none of us has to face that (again, for those who have gone through it at least once already).


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

maincourse99 said:


> Yeah, when it happens (and there's a good chance it will), you might turn into a blubbering baby begging her to choose you and not the OM. I get a good laugh out of posts like this.


Uh, no. There is a huge difference between wisely informing people that they might be more open to reconciliation than they beleive when faced with infidelity...

And suggesting that a person doesn't know themselves well enough to say HELL NO to the idea of "begging her to chose you and not the OM".

*H.E.L.L N.O. 
*

It's already hard enough for me to imagine my wife cheating, and worse, me taking her back. But my great love for this woman leaves me just enough room to admit that there is a slim possibility that R could happen.

But let me tell you never, and I mean absolutely never, would I find myself groveling before ANY woman begging her to choose between me and some side d*ck she picked up.


*H.E.L.L N.O. 
*


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> What Dig has been trying to say is that people will often say "I will NEVER put up with cheating. I will NEVER reconcile. I will KICK HIM/HER TO THE CURB!"... and yet, MANY times, they waver.


Maybe because fear of the unknown(what will happen to me after divorce) has overcome the ability to act upon said boundary.

And what I'm saying is we are posting at a marriage forum that has a CWI thread. Basically a lot of information influx. Also, people are trying to be proactive, instead of reactive. They don't really have to be cheated on to set a strong boundary.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's the exact reason why I said before that nobody's going to make me a victim more than once.
> It is not my duty to try figure out why the other person cheated.
> The only reason for cheating is selfishness.
> I am not responsible for my partner's infidelity neither is she responsible for mine.
> ...


You are absolutely correct that you are not responsible for hers, nor is she responsible for yours, should you decide to cheat. You are absolutely correct that if one is not happy, discuss and/or divorce. Absolutely!

And, even Dig and Hope, and any other who HAS chosen to reconcile would also agree: there is absolutely no justifiable reason for cheating. Absolutely, 1000% agree! (Got someone in SIM that needs to hear that a bit more =/ ) Anyway... no, there is no justification for it. HOWEVER, there is nothing wrong if one CHOOSES to reconcile, or attempt to reconcile, rather than immediately divorce.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Dig isn't saying that those who choose to divorce are stupid or anything like that. He also doesn't insult them about their boundaries.
> .


Today @ 5.49 AM ............Pg 3 Post # 37
By Samedaydig.
"...Hypothetical situations make us feel more heroic..." 



"....Now, if I had been in that theater in Colorado when that guy came in shooting people...and if I had had MY gun with me, I would have stood up and sheltered people with my own body while unloading the clip of my Glock 19 without fear.

Yeah.

Right..."

"...Heroism in our brain rarely comes out the way we envision when we suddenly find ourselves knee deep in a bloody trench..."
.....................................................................................
Are you saying that this^^^isn't condescending ?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> I didn't see anybody here harassing people who choose to reconcile.


The terms I used in my post were used by others when they posted, referring to people who R. I didn't just make them up.



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Gimme a break. I have stated I have experienced infidelity. I know my stance, OP asked a question that nobody is forced to answer, some people answered and that is harassing?


Actually, if you read my post, I didn't say that none of you have experienced infidelity. I believe it was established that the OP never has though? Anyway, my point still stands. I honestly do NOT understand why these posts pop up so frequently. Why is it so hard to understand that cheaters CAN actually change, in rare cases??


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Maybe because they have set their boundaries without truly understanding themselves or fear of the unknown(what will happen to me after divorce) has overcome the ability to act upon said boundary.
> 
> And what I'm saying is we are posting at a marriage forum that has a CWI thread. Basically a lot of information influx. Also, people are trying to be proactive, instead of reactive. They don't really have to be cheated on to set a strong boundary.


Absolutely. At the same time, they should recognize the fact that there is always that VERY slim possibility (as Jaquen pointed out) that they would change their minds. There's nothing wrong with saying "I strongly believe, in that situation, that I would walk away and never look back. But, I also recognize that I could change my mind if the situation presents itself."... nothing wrong with stating that, or any variation of it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> HOWEVER, there is nothing wrong if one CHOOSES to reconcile, or attempt to reconcile, rather than immediately divorce.


And I've said this^^^ in almost EVERY ,SINGLE POST on this thread.
I am yet to see a post where Dig says that it's ok , if a person decides that they can't deal with reconciliation , before infidelity.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> The terms I used in my post were used by others when they posted, referring to people who R. I didn't just make them up.



On THIS thread?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Also, people are trying to be proactive, instead of reactive. *They don't really have to be cheated on to set a strong boundary.*


Which is EXACTLY what I tried to tell Dig ,two pages earlier.

It's so absurd.
Its like saying that if I came home and saw another man balls deep inside my wife , that I never know if I might reach for my firearm and blast a hole in her head.

I guess that might be a good defence in court.
Tell the judge that there was no way I could have known how I would nave reacted, because it has never happened to me before.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> And I've said this^^^ in almost EVERY ,SINGLE POST on this thread.
> I am yet to see a post where Dig says that it's ok , if a person decides that they can't deal with reconciliation , before infidelity.


Read my very first thread. The one where I talked about my first wife who cheated on me and I attempted reconciliation and she f'd it up by getting caught with the dude less than a year later.

Read my very first thread where I told Regret that was a deal breaker.

Read my very first thread and subsequent ones where I have referred to this very thing.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Today @ 5.49 AM ............Pg 3 Post # 37
> By Samedaydig.
> "...Hypothetical situations make us feel more heroic..."
> 
> ...


CM, I said he isn't *INSULTING BOUNDARIES*. And he's not. Not at all. Never said he isn't speaking in a condescending tone... then again, there are a few who are being a bit condescending in here.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

This is just degenerating and not being productive. I'm closing this thread. Please be respectful of each other when you post.


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