# how much do circumstances matter?



## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

wow forgive me, this 1 yr anniversary has me on a crazy streak! but let me ask you, how much do u think circumstances in which the affair took place matter on how you interpret it, if you decide to forgive it and all that?

to give background: when my h cheated on me i had temporarily left him. it turned out i had bad post partum depression and treated him like dirt, said cruel things... i didn't know it and he didn't either. Once the medicine kicked in for me i couldn't believe it! but anyways... that circumstance really mattered to me in trying to decide what to do about my h's tryst.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Circumstances matter. Still, if you had an agreement not to cheat, if you took vows and never said otherwise, it's still cheating.

Cheating when you think the marriage is over is not as bad as cheating while leading the other spouse to believe that everything is just peachy.

If you left him, what was said? That it's over? Was it assumed that you both would be faithful just because you didn't say otherwise? Does your husband say he thought you left him for good, then he cheated?

Anyway, circumstances do matter, cheating is always wrong, but not every cheater is equal.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

a lot of food for thought. for him, had i not left and said some of the things i said, not that i blame myself for him deciding to do this, but i also don't think he would have had the affair either. I really don't think he's just gonna get bored one day and do it, if that makes sense.


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## Turningacorner (Jun 9, 2013)

Good question. My H had a physical affair with a stay-at-home mom during a time he was not working and he was a stay-at-home dad. I was working, he was not and we were struggling financially having bought a house, had a child and a keeping up with bills. Long story short, he ended up spending a lot of time with a woman whose child went to the same day care as ours and boom - it got physical. Nothing excusable about it, but I always figured his self-esteem was at an all time low during that time and that was part of the reason for his infidelity. Like I say - no excuse - but his/our circumstances sort of made me understand HOW it might have happened more.

That said - fast forward a few years and he is now working successfully and life is good for us all. I discovered him having an online tryst with a women he met in a group he runs on facebook. Huge slap in the face - especially seeing that I just found out this weekend he still has not removed her entirely from his phone contacts etc a few months after DDay.

So in answer to your question. I used to think the circumstances were partly what helped bring his affair on - it didn't help much, but I often chalked it up to that. Having just experienced what's happened recently, now I am not so sure.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

To me not much. When I think of all the people I know who had really terrible circumstances and remained faithful I see that "circumstances" are just excuses for betraying and they would have done so otherwise.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> To me not much. When I think of all the people I know who had really terrible circumstances and remained faithful I see that "circumstances" are just excuses for betraying and they would have done so otherwise.


it's true. it never crossed my mind to cheat on him for making my life miserable.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Turningacorner said:


> Good question. My H had a physical affair with a stay-at-home mom during a time he was not working and he was a stay-at-home dad. I was working, he was not and we were struggling financially having bought a house, had a child and a keeping up with bills. Long story short, he ended up spending a lot of time with a woman whose child went to the same day care as ours and boom - it got physical. Nothing excusable about it, but I always figured his self-esteem was at an all time low during that time and that was part of the reason for his infidelity. Like I say - no excuse - but his/our circumstances sort of made me understand HOW it might have happened more.
> 
> That said - fast forward a few years and he is now working successfully and life is good for us all. I discovered him having an online tryst with a women he met in a group he runs on facebook. Huge slap in the face - especially seeing that I just found out this weekend he still has not removed her entirely from his phone contacts etc a few months after DDay.
> 
> So in answer to your question. I used to think the circumstances were partly what helped bring his affair on - it didn't help much, but I often chalked it up to that. Having just experienced what's happened recently, now I am not so sure.


 sorry about this


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Turningacorner said:


> Good question. My H had a physical affair with a stay-at-home mom during a time he was not working and he was a stay-at-home dad. I was working, he was not and we were struggling financially having bought a house, had a child and a keeping up with bills. Long story short, he ended up spending a lot of time with a woman whose child went to the same day care as ours and boom - it got physical. Nothing excusable about it, but I always figured his self-esteem was at an all time low during that time and that was part of the reason for his infidelity. Like I say - no excuse - but his/our circumstances sort of made me understand HOW it might have happened more.
> 
> That said - fast forward a few years and he is now working successfully and life is good for us all. I discovered him having an online tryst with a women he met in a group he runs on facebook. Huge slap in the face - especially seeing that I just found out this weekend he still has not removed her entirely from his phone contacts etc a few months after DDay.
> 
> So in answer to your question. I used to think the circumstances were partly what helped bring his affair on - it didn't help much, but I often chalked it up to that. Having just experienced what's happened recently, now I am not so sure.


Did the SAHM's H ever find out? How did he react?


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## Turningacorner (Jun 9, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Did the SAHM's H ever find out? How did he react?


Yes he did. I don't know the details of what happened between them but I know the sh*t hit the fan. We ended up moving town afterwards as I could not handle living there anymore after that. I heard through the grapevine they are still together.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Turningacorner said:


> Yes he did. I don't know the details of what happened between them but I know the sh*t hit the fan. We ended up moving town afterwards as I could not handle living there anymore after that. I heard through the grapevine they are still together.


Two selfish people two devastated families. :banghead:


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Two selfish people two devastated families. :banghead:


How true.


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

I so want to believe that circumstances matter, but when I honestly examine the circumstances (that I have been told of and know of) that led up to my WH's A, it really comes down to his inability to remain committed to me and me only. He lacked the moral compass to simply say, "No". 

About 17 years ago, shortly after the birth of our second child, I began chatting with a man online (back in the days of dial-up) when I felt lonely and neglected due to WH's work schedule and resultant low energy. I was flattered and even considered meeting him, but I resisted the temptation and even told my WH about it several weeks later because I recognized that I had engaged in the beginnings of an EA. I knew that I was devoting energy to someone outside of my marriage and that it was wrong. I share this because I understand how As can begin and snowball; I also can draw a contrast between the choices my WH and I made because of this experience.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

When your marriage sucks you have four choices.
- cheat
- do nothing
- divorce
- work on it
If someone decides to cheat because their marriage sucks, it's a cowardly, selfish thing to do. I find it more reprehensible than cheating when your marriage is good, because it displays a basic lack of moral character. When the going gets tough the tough do NOT cheat. They buckle down and try to fix things.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> Circumstances matter. Still, if you had an agreement not to cheat, if you took vows and never said otherwise, it's still cheating.
> 
> Cheating when you think the marriage is over is not as bad as cheating while leading the other spouse to believe that everything is just peachy.
> 
> ...


But you still made a vow to be faithful.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

The ONLY thing that would matter would be how your TEMPORARY separation was laid out.

By NO means does it excuse an affair. I'm someone who thinks you don't go looking at other people until papers are filed. But if the "temporary" separation wasn't 100% clear that it was temporary AND you were treating him horribly...I could see how it could happen and also be forgivable. 

This is the closest to a "grey area" as you can get with infidelity. But it still qualifies as wrong regardless.

There are VERY FEW affairs that I would deem forgivable and able to be reconciled from, but there are SOME.  I'd say 99% of affairs should lead to divorce but there is the 1%. The WS is still 100% responsible for their own actions though.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife had an affair I had an affair. We forgave each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> The ONLY thing that would matter would be how your TEMPORARY separation was laid out.
> 
> By NO means does it excuse an affair. I'm someone who thinks you don't go looking at other people until papers are filed. But if the "temporary" separation wasn't 100% clear that it was temporary AND you were treating him horribly...I could see how it could happen and also be forgivable.
> 
> ...


i'm not out to excuse it, don't get me wrong. the big thing for me is my h understood it to be cheating when he did it, so he didn't think of himself as outside the marriage BUT... i do recognize that i had been telling him stuff like he ruined my life, we should get divorced and so on. unfortunately all of the terrible things i felt with that depression i projected right onto him . i DO think that matters, it has alot in determining how to work things out with him. and to his credit... hes never come out and blamed me and hes not brought up the horrible ways i was to him at that time.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think we all consider circumstances for most things, no matter how trivial or traumatic. We say that the circumstances can help explain, but they don't excuse. 

For me, the context has to be extreme for it to excuse - like your H is in prison for life for a murder that he is clearly guilty of and you are for legal reasons unable to divorce. Extreme. Otherwise, the circumstances help us to position the behavior in our minds, but don't justify in any absolute way.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

redtulips said:


> i'm not out to excuse it, don't get me wrong. the big thing for me is my h understood it to be cheating when he did it, so he didn't think of himself as outside the marriage BUT... i do recognize that i had been telling him stuff like he ruined my life, we should get divorced and so on. unfortunately all of the terrible things i felt with that depression i projected right onto him . i DO think that matters, it has alot in determining how to work things out with him. and to his credit... hes never come out and blamed me and hes not brought up the horrible ways i was to him at that time.


In the few posts I'm reading from you, it seems like you and your Husband has a sound grasp on this.

You are taking responsibility for your actions, which are extreme and horrible frankly. 

And based on what your saying your Husband is too. His actions are also extreme and horrible. 

I couldn't imagine my wife saying and acting the way you describe yourself and what that would do to me then wanting to separate. Honestly the first thing that would pop in my mind is SHE is having the affair. Anyway. I truly feel for you. This is a very difficult situation.

If you both keep owning your sides of the equation and work on fixing them and carry the heavy burden of those, I can see where this is fixable. Once you both move past the pain you feel, you might want to have a renewing of your vows ceremony, almost treating it as a NEW marriage. Sometimes something like that can help you both put those feelings and events behind you.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> In the few posts I'm reading from you, it seems like you and your Husband has a sound grasp on this.
> 
> You are taking responsibility for your actions, which are extreme and horrible frankly.
> 
> ...


ty for this perspective, its helpful. i think when all that happened and i left and said those awful things he was truly in a dark place. since i moved in w my parents and id spent the previous time on bedrest and stuff it didnt cross his mind that i was having an affair but i know it was totally confusing and heartbreaking.

the renewal idea is nice  maybe next anniversary i will ask him about that


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

redtulips said:


> a lot of food for thought. for him, had i not left and said some of the things i said, not that i blame myself for him deciding to do this, but i also don't think he would have had the affair either. I really don't think he's just gonna get bored one day and do it, if that makes sense.


I guess only you know what you said. If he was at an all time low due to your treatment of him and he thought the marriage was over (and thought you had made that call) then you put the fish back in the ocean, IMO, and it swam. Can't blame someone for wanting to feel good about themselves when their life has been turned upside down by the one they love and trust.
IMO it is much like those that realize they are cheated on and instead of divorce they go out and have a revenge fling. Not the best choice but understandable given the circumstances.
Only you know how badly you hurt him. If he never gave you a hint prior and only did this to feel like he was of value due to you taking away his value as a man, husband, father, then I can't say I blame him, but it still would not be the choice I would recommend for anyone.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I guess only you know what you said. If he was at an all time low due to your treatment of him and he thought the marriage was over (and thought you had made that call) then you put the fish back in the ocean, IMO, and it swam. Can't blame someone for wanting to feel good about themselves when their life has been turned upside down by the one they love and trust.
> IMO it is much like those that realize they are cheated on and instead of divorce they go out and have a revenge fling. Not the best choice but understandable given the circumstances.
> Only you know how badly you hurt him. If he never gave you a hint prior and only did this to feel like he was of value due to you taking away his value as a man, husband, father, then I can't say I blame him, but it still would not be the choice I would recommend for anyone.


this is exactly what i have been struggling with!! ty for being thoughtful about this. one thing though is that he hid this and presented it like cheating. Now i'm not sure if thats just because he was afraid of losing me if i knew about it... or if he understood himself to be cheating at the time. I mean either way it was not a good time for him, it was very bad, but its the difference for me between understanding him to cheat and understanding him to have a fling after i left him, if that makes sense... and its not always so clear cut.


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## Reluctant_Doubter (Apr 11, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think we all consider circumstances for most things, no matter how trivial or traumatic. We say that the circumstances can help explain, but they don't excuse.


I agree with alta Dame. Circumstances are important. I think the nature of the circumstances is a major factor in whether reconciliation can follow - though where the line lies is always an individual thing.

I cheated on my first wife 21 years ago. I believed that the circumstances drove me to it. It wasn't as if I was a philanderer. But that didn't and doesn't excuse it - it just explains it. Even though from the start of that affair I never slept with my first wife again, and left her shortly afterwards, I have lived with the guilt ever since. It has greatly influenced the way I have behaved in my second marriage (to my affair partner).

My point is this: While the circumstances do not excuse the behavior they are important in the ability to forgive. It is even possible - as it was in my case - that the trauma of having once been unfaithful to one's spouse - (in my case a now ex-wife who was treating me very badly) can result in permanent changes for the better if the willingness is there.

If I was in your husband's situation I might have behaved similarly - at least at that time of my life. I certainly would not have been thinking straight. I would behave differently now - but that is 21 years later. So I wish you both the best of luck and hope you can find a way to work together, rebuild and forgive.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Reluctant_Doubter said:


> I agree with alta Dame. Circumstances are important. I think the nature of the circumstances is a major factor in whether reconciliation can follow - though where the line lies is always an individual thing.
> 
> I cheated on my first wife 21 years ago. I believed that the circumstances drove me to it. It wasn't as if I was a philanderer. But that didn't and doesn't excuse it - it just explains it. Even though from the start of that affair I never slept with my first wife again, and left her shortly afterwards, I have lived with the guilt ever since. It has greatly influenced the way I have behaved in my second marriage (to my affair partner).
> 
> ...


I think your quote there about it changing the ability to forgive is what i mean... ty for sharing this. yes, i do think it makes it something i can move past... he didnt get bored one day and screw the neighbor and that does matter to me.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

redtulips said:


> this is exactly what i have been struggling with!! ty for being thoughtful about this. one thing though is that he hid this and presented it like cheating. Now i'm not sure if thats just because he was afraid of losing me if i knew about it... or if he understood himself to be cheating at the time. I mean either way it was not a good time for him, it was very bad, but its the difference for me between understanding him to cheat and understanding him to have a fling after i left him, if that makes sense... and its not always so clear cut.


I am guessing here but knowing how I would feel I can say this. If my wife took my manhood away from me, I would be desperate to feel like a man again so I can't say that I would not go out to a bar and find a lady to make me feel like a man again, if even for a night. Only though if I thought she had left me for good. Due to my love for her, after doing it I can say I would be a mess. Torn with guilt and shame and If I found out she was coming back and all the time she had belittled me it was a big mistake due to illness that neither of us knew about I would be terrified to tell her as I would be afraid then I would lose her again. I would be so relieved to have her back it would be hard to tell her.. Guilt would probably win though and I would have to spill the beans, as I love my wife too much to wrong her and to live a lie would kill me internally.
Just my perspective, as I don't know him, you do so maybe it applies, maybe not.
I would monitor and verify the facts as you two move forward to make sure this is only a one time thing though. Do it undercover and if there is nothing to find then you can go back to trust at some point in the future.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I am guessing here but knowing how I would feel I can say this. If my wife took my manhood away from me, I would be desperate to feel like a man again so I can't say that I would not go out to a bar and find a lady to make me feel like a man again, if even for a night. Only though if I thought she had left me for good. Due to my love for her, after doing it I can say I would be a mess. Torn with guilt and shame and If I found out she was coming back and all the time she had belittled me it was a big mistake due to illness that neither of us knew about I would be terrified to tell her as I would be afraid then I would lose her again. I would be so relieved to have her back it would be hard to tell her.. Guilt would probably win though and I would have to spill the beans, as I love my wife too much to wrong her and to live a lie would kill me internally.
> Just my perspective, as I don't know him, you do so maybe it applies, maybe not.
> I would monitor and verify the facts as you two move forward to make sure this is only a one time thing though. Do it undercover and if there is nothing to find then you can go back to trust at some point in the future.


i've been struggling so much with.. not wanting to be too soft and naive and thinking about things like you just laid out! because i think thats about what happened. That was such a crazy bad time... even now thinking back to my mental state at that time i can't believe it.. and it had been developing and getting worse for months by then. I'd call him at work and cry on the phone for hrs... what i wish most is that i was smart enough then to see there was something wrong! but yes, my h is the type of person who knocked up his gfand reacted by marrying her, putting up with inlaws who hate him and never complain, and put up with mos of his wife abusing him and never complain... but everyone has a breaking point?

i get what you are saying about the cover up too.. he had said something similar when i asked about it.. he was so afraid it would break me and everything would be ruined if i knew


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

redtulips said:


> i've been struggling so much with.. not wanting to be too soft and naive and thinking about things like you just laid out! because i think thats about what happened. That was such a crazy bad time... even now thinking back to my mental state at that time i can't believe it.. and it had been developing and getting worse for months by then. I'd call him at work and cry on the phone for hrs... what i wish most is that i was smart enough then to see there was something wrong! but yes, my h is the type of person who knocked up his gfand reacted by marrying her, putting up with inlaws who hate him and never complain, and put up with mos of his wife abusing him and never complain... but everyone has a breaking point?
> 
> i get what you are saying about the cover up too.. he had said something similar when i asked about it.. he was so afraid it would break me and everything would be ruined if i knew


the more you love someone the more devastating rejection is. He sounds like he loves you and you him. It sounds like you both will be ok. I do recommend you stay in touch with one another's feelings. He will be worried going forward of losing you again and it will make him scared to admit anything even small things he does he feels you will disapprove of and you will be afraid of being mean to him because of what you did. Communication is key, maybe read a marriage book together once in a while to keep communication flowing and stay in touch with techniques that exist to help understand one another a bit better. Make sure you have all the information from his affair and that no contact is in place for the future so you aren't wondering and suspecting all the time. Regardless of what you did, he is the one that cheated and you deserve the clarity of thought going forward.

best of luck to you.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> the more you love someone the more devastating rejection is. He sounds like he loves you and you him. It sounds like you both will be ok. I do recommend you stay in touch with one another's feelings. He will be worried going forward of losing you again and it will make him scared to admit anything even small things he does he feels you will disapprove of and you will be afraid of being mean to him because of what you did. Communication is key, maybe read a marriage book together once in a while to keep communication flowing and stay in touch with techniques that exist to help understand one another a bit better. Make sure you have all the information from his affair and that no contact is in place for the future so you aren't wondering and suspecting all the time. Regardless of what you did, he is the one that cheated and you deserve the clarity of thought going forward.
> 
> best of luck to you.


thanks! i know we've already had difficulty from him not wanting to share things and worrying about it stressing me out and all this (turned out he was bothered by work stress, but i thought he was tired of me or something). that's been a part of this past yr, trying to overcome these events and how they impacted our interactions... 

yes the ow in question moved, out of state, so i am not worried about her


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

There's certainly a difference between a spouse cheating when things are going good because the opportunity was there versus a spouse like your husband who cheated when he was alone and lonely and feeling insecure, ugly, and unwanted.

I think you're struggling with this because it's a showstopper offense yet at the same time you feel like you created the vulnerable state of your marriage that helped lead to it. I agree with you if that's the case and I think reconciliation is possible.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> There's certainly a difference between a spouse cheating when things are going good because the opportunity was there versus a spouse like your husband who cheated when he was alone and lonely and feeling insecure, ugly, and unwanted.
> 
> I think you're struggling with this because it's a showstopper offense yet at the same time you feel like you created the vulnerable state of your marriage that helped lead to it. I agree with you if that's the case and I think reconciliation is possible.


yess this is exactly right. I'm glad I posted this, i'm getting a lot of helpful responses today! that's why i struggle-- i'm someone for whom infidelity is crossing The Line, but these circumstances made it so confused for me. should i really give up this guy who i otherwise think is pretty great, given really crappy circumstances i created... ? but i don't want to be overly soft and naive either!

yes i'm so glad others can see this


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I think it depends. Sometimes there are circumstances that make cheating appear more attractive, and sometimes they are just cheats. In the end there is still no excuse for cheating.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Ovid said:


> I think it depends. Sometimes there are circumstances that make cheating appear more attractive, and sometimes they are just cheats. In the end there is still no excuse for cheating.


I agree... it's not ok to cheat. but i think what i am wondering about here is when circumstances help determine if the betrayed person should or wants to forgive the spouse and there it seems like it matters.


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

Redtulips, my wife was much like you after both kids, and was absolutely terrible to be around. I stayed at work a little late, took my sweet time doing any shopping, anything to avoid more time in which to get my head bit off at home.....but I did not go and stick my **** in another woman. I was however pushed very close to leaving and was looking at apartments and studios, if it had gone that far I would have figured it was over and may have pursued other women at that point. People handle the situations differently though, I can't believe just in our work office, how many co-workers picked up their bad habits again like smoking drinking and poor diet when times got stressful and tough. We turn to our vice's to cope.
Overall it's a really good debate and a tough question to answer. I know first hand how bad it can be and how unwanted the W can make H feel during post partum, and everyone has a breaking point.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

badcompany said:


> Redtulips, my wife was much like you after both kids, and was absolutely terrible to be around. I stayed at work a little late, took my sweet time doing any shopping, anything to avoid more time in which to get my head bit off at home.....but I did not go and stick my **** in another woman. I was however pushed very close to leaving and was looking at apartments and studios, if it had gone that far I would have figured it was over and may have pursued other women at that point. People handle the situations differently though, I can't believe just in our work office, how many co-workers picked up their bad habits again like smoking drinking and poor diet when times got stressful and tough. We turn to our vice's to cope.
> Overall it's a really good debate and a tough question to answer. I know first hand how bad it can be and how unwanted the W can make H feel during post partum, and everyone has a breaking point.


yes. he didn't have to do that, but,it was pretty crappy for him right then. i mean.. to be fair to me for a second lol, it was hell for me too, a fight to get up, a fight to shower, a fight to do anything... it was a dark dark place.. so in case anyone else is reading this-- pregnancy hormones suck so much. Ok that being said... my h has it that this woman offered herself to him, and i believe that is what happened. so if you think about him being in a situation in which i was gone, saying nasty things, and this is after a few mos of very hard times between us btw, and some **** neighbor says she wants to screw him, i mean.. its hard to not have a little sympathy with that? i mean i'll be hones,t i have a hard time not feeling for him with that somewhat. i still wish he woulda made a better choice but how hard do i want to punish him?


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

Again.....tough one. It should be a divorce or reconcile option, no "getting even" affair on your part. 
I'm typically very anti-cheater but in this case I would entertain sincere apologies(again there is no excuse for cheating) from both sides and letting it be water under the bridge if he's a good man otherwise. And the "good" part we have to leave to you to judge.
My wife went back to working evenings after she was physically healed up, but was very abusive from about 4 months to 1 year after the birth. During this time I was taking the kids with me shopping and I got a lot of attention from women. Some innocent, and some not. One checker at the grocery store commented on my sons huge pretty blue eyes and was looking me over like she was ready to have her own...with me. It was a bit of a shock but a reminder at the same time, that for any good man driven away there another woman that would be glad to have him.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

badcompany said:


> Again.....tough one. It should be a divorce or reconcile option, no "getting even" affair on your part.
> I'm typically very anti-cheater but in this case I would entertain sincere apologies from both sides and letting it be water under the bridge if he's a good man otherwise. And the "good" part we have to leave to you to judge.
> My wife went back to working evenings after she was physically healed up, but was very abusive from about 4 months to 1 year after the birth. During this time I was taking the kids with me shopping and I got a lot of attention from women. Some innocent, and some not. One checker at the grocery store commented on my sons huge pretty blue eyes and was looking me over like she was ready to have her own...with me. It was a bit of a shock but a reminder at the same time, that for any good man driven away there another woman that would be glad to have him.


he is otherwise a good man.... and hes really really wanted to be with me and us despite everything. i believe totally that he loves me sincerely.

ty for the feedback


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

redtulips said:


> I agree... it's not ok to cheat. but i think what i am wondering about here is when circumstances help determine if the betrayed person should or wants to forgive the spouse and there it seems like it matters.


Here's the thing rt. If you want to reconcile then your husband has own his actions and be remorseful. He can't justify or blame shift or make excuses and he has to do lots of heavy lifting for a long time.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Here's the thing rt. If you want to reconcile then your husband has own his actions and be remorseful. He can't justify or blame shift or make excuses and he has to do lots of heavy lifting for a long time.


he's been remorseful and cooperative...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

redtulips said:


> i'm not out to excuse it, don't get me wrong. the big thing for me is my h understood it to be cheating when he did it, so he didn't think of himself as outside the marriage BUT... i do recognize that i had been telling him stuff like he ruined my life, we should get divorced and so on. unfortunately all of the terrible things i felt with that depression i projected right onto him . i DO think that matters, it has alot in determining how to work things out with him. and to his credit... hes never come out and blamed me and hes not brought up the horrible ways i was to him at that time.


You are absolutely right. Some of the things you said to your husband probably hurt him very deeply. He felt that there was no hope of getting you back, and strayed......

Was it cheating? ABSOLUTELY.....But I think it was something that can and should be forgiven, IF he owns his cheating, is totally NC, and is transparent with all his communication.....

It sounds like he was a new dad, overwhelmed by life, and then BAM, your mental illness makes you say things to him that would devastate anyone....

I think some guys would still be running....

The important thing is he doesn't blame you for what you said when you were ill, and you are able to forgive him for his affair.....

I don't give many R's much of a chance, but I think this one is the exception.....Go with your heart

good luck
the woodchuck


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> You are absolutely right. Some of the things you said to your husband probably hurt him very deeply. He felt that there was no hope of getting you back, and strayed......
> 
> Was it cheating? ABSOLUTELY.....But I think it was something that can and should be forgiven, IF he owns his cheating, is totally NC, and is transparent with all his communication.....
> 
> ...


he'd recently lost his mom too... ooohh it was not a fun ride for him. ty for your perspective on this i'm inclined to agree. no i think a lot of guys would move on.. most even?,, he could if he wanted to but wants to make it work.


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