# They really are like teenagers, cheaters!



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I thought of some of the WS we have come across on TAM yesterday.

I was passing a school and a pretty young girl (14 to 16) was walking toward me, busy talking *loudly * on her mobile phone. She said: "But, no matter what I do, I know I am going to hurt one of them *very* badly."

Double dating at that age might be excusable.

But the double dating by some marrieds is wrong, yet they seem to still have the mindset of that young girl and use it to excuse themselves.

Do some people never grow up or do they regress at some point?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I think they might get better at compartmentation with age and experience. So that my W was able to look me in the eye and tell me that all the time and effort she was spending with her former AP and other orbiters had "nothing to do with me."


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## DumbDude (Jul 27, 2013)

Something that stuck with me that my STBXW said... "I still feel like I am a teenager"

Yep and you are acting like it too...


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

My FWW was reliving high school drama all over again. We had moved back to her hometown, and reconnecting with old friends (both male & female) just reset her back to those high school years. 

It almost cost us our marriage. So, even once you think you've grown up, the company you start to keep has a big impact on thought processes and spills over into all your other relationships. 

Part of our R is that she can't hang out with any of them again (even the girls). They are toxic to our relationship, mostly because they don't care about any of thier own relationships.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Philat said:


> I think they might get better at compartmentation with age and experience. So that my W was able to look me in the eye and tell me that all the time and effort she was spending with her former AP and other orbiters had "nothing to do with me."


Yikes. 

I got something like that. But in the form of: "Even though I am seeing POSOM, I hope you realise that I still love you, Matt?"


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't think there is anything wrong with dating more than one person as long as you are truthful about it.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

"But I didn't/couldn't live my wild twenties!!!"

For future reference.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yikes.
> 
> I got something like that. But in the form of: "Even though I am seeing POSOM, I hope you realise that I still love you, Matt?"


Well, then everything's all right then, isn't it.....?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> ahh philat....that makes me sad hon.


Thanks, Mrs JA. All good now, though.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Philat said:


> Well, then everything's all right then, isn't it.....?


Yes. Well, up to a point. Of course.

Somehow, we got through it.

Well. Somehow I got through it.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yes. Well, up to a point. Of course.
> 
> Somehow, we got through it.
> 
> Well. Somehow I got through it.


Well, Matt, just this past Saturday night we were at a pub with friends and one of my friend's wife was talking about their trip to the UK and then they were talking about having gone to Brighton.

My famous memory stacked up the word "Brighton" and brought you, your WW and "that dialog" to my mind next to the stack.

Even I remember that one, how can you be over it? Please.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Well, Matt, just this past Saturday night we were at a pub with friends and one of my friend's wife was talking about their trip to the UK and then they were talking about having gone to Brighton.
> 
> My famous memory stacked up the word "Brighton" and brought you, your WW and "that dialog" to my mind next to the stack.
> 
> Even I remember that one, how can you be over it? Please.


Because that's how my wife is. Asperger's will often say stuff that would for a non-Asperger's be really, really bad but for them? It's no big deal.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Because that's how my wife is. Asperger's will often say stuff that would for a non-Asperger's be really, really bad but for them? It's no big deal.


Well, if you say so 

(Insert Boba Fett's famous response: "Yeah, I say so")


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I don't think it's something even teens ought to be doing.

If they do it now, and no one calls them on it, and they get AWAY with it, they are just teaching themselves to do it again when they are engaged, when married, have children...

This stuff ought to be taught from dating 101 class that it's a bad idea.

SAY NO TO DRUGS
SAY NO TO DRINKS
SAY NO TO CHEATERS

That sign should be on every school wall.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

Rugs said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with dating more than one person as long as you are truthful about it.



It seems fine in theory but hardly ever works well in the real life.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I know my WW was trying to relive the past. She was definitely in full mid-life crises mode. She had just turned fifty, our daughter had just moved out and had delivered our first grandchild, of course making her a grandma. The POSOM was over 15 years younger! Their first face to face meeting away from work was in a secluded wooded park where he kissed her. (Aaaawwwwwwww)  The whole thing was very high school like. I guess he must of had a teacher fantasy.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

adriana said:


> It seems fine in theory but hardly ever works well in the real life.


So true!!!

I was involved in a love triangle thing years ago with a woman who was a real smoking hot piece of a$$, she was allowed lovers on the side, they could stay as long as the welcome but strictly no strings just sex.

I have since learned that her husband wasn't LD as I always thought, apparently he was a voyeur and got off even more on watching :scratchhead:.

It worked for them as she needed to "feel a man inside her" but he was not so much in to doing her but their marriage arrangement allowed her to take lovers into their bedroom.

I must admit that in having spoken with many people about whether they would go into the whole open marriage thing and they all said the same, if they had a choice between losing their spouse to another or entering into the whole open marriage and the polls said unanimously that they would.

I would rather let my W go openly and honestly and deal with the hurt rather than kid myself that I could live with the thought of her coming home after being with another man.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Rugs said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with dating more than one person as long as you are truthful about it.


As in "it's not cheating if my husband/wife is watching"?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> As in "it's not cheating if my husband/wife is watching"?


And it's not cheating if you tell them in advance?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And it's not cheating if you tell them in advance?


It's cheating as long as "them" exist.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> I must admit that in having spoken with many people about whether they would go into the whole open marriage thing and they all said the same, if they had a choice between losing their spouse to another or entering into the whole open marriage and the polls said unanimously that they would.
> .


You can lose your spouse to an open marriage anyways. Heck, I hardly think handing them off to the masses for experimentation is going to reduce the risk of losing them : 

a. risk of inviting a third party into your lives who may do you harm (let's be honest, open marriages do not always attract the most ethical of people)
b. risk of STD
c. risk of spousal abandonment ("I just fell in love with him.. you can't understand...")
d. risk of regrets (sometimes your says says they are OK with it, but afterward they feel dirty and violated and accuse you of cheating)

I am sure there is more that I hadn't thought of here...

But my point is, these arrangements may seem like they solve the problem, but they are fraught with the risk of introducing new problems into your marriage.. problems monogamous and committed couples don't have to deal with.

Isn't marriage hard enough without rolling the dice with this stuff?

It just seems like recreational drugs : it might be fun, it may solve some of those aches and pains you have, but there are risks... 

Hardly seems worth the roll of the dice.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

I've only known one person who had an open marriage. He is divorced.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

I think my wife started living the "teenage" life she never had. She has a half brother that is 12 years younger and another that is 16 years younger. She basically raised them while her wh0re of a mother was banging guys half her age. She was damaged goods and I was a horny teenager when we met. 

We got married very young: me 18, her 20. When I started going out to sea (US Navy) she was free to do what she wanted and really started to drink and party a lot. She put herself into situations no married woman should be in and succumbed to temptations easily while drunk or stoned.

I found out about the drinking and partying but not about the cheating. I told her it was time to stop acting like a teenager without a care in the world and start acting like a responsible wife and mother.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> I found out about the drinking and partying but not about the cheating.


If she's drinking, doing drugs, and partying, you can be pretty sure she's cheating... That's almost a given with that lifestyle.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> If she's drinking, doing drugs, and partying, you can be pretty sure she's cheating... That's almost a given with that lifestyle.


Not necessarily.

I did my share of drinking and partying in every port but never cheated. It would have been so easy and so many of my shipmates did. I even had a superior try to get me to go to a brothel with him. He said "guy's cheat just for sex no big deal; if a woman cheats she's in love"; what a load of BS.

I guess since I wouldn't cheat I thought she wouldn't either. I saw warning signs but it's so easy to believe what you want to be true actually is true.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I don't think it's something even teens ought to be doing.
> 
> If they do it now, and no one calls them on it, and they get AWAY with it, they are just teaching themselves to do it again when they are engaged, when married, have children...
> 
> ...


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## lyndyb (Feb 9, 2014)

Rugs said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with dating more than one person as long as you are truthful about it.




That's when my decision would of been to move on and find a man with morals and character


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## lyndyb (Feb 9, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Yikes.
> 
> I got something like that. But in the form of: "Even though I am seeing POSOM, I hope you realise that I still love you, Matt?"



Yep I got "Your the only woman I've ever really loved"


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Whether it works or not for anyone is a different than if it's cheating. It's not cheating if everyone knows where they stand.

We all equate dating with sex as well and this is not always true. Dating does not always involve sex. 

The main point is the truth. If you know the truth, you can make your own decision. If it doesn't work out, it would not be because of a cheating lie.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Philat said:


> I think they might get better at compartmentation with age and experience. So that my W was able to look me in the eye and tell me that all the time and effort she was spending with her former AP and other orbiters had "nothing to do with me."


This is the line that a few women used on me when trying to befriend my (ex)H.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Teenagers ought to be dating all kinds of people....so unless they are dating one person exclusively...and how would you that that from listening to a phone conversation?....then they are not cheating. My husband...then my boyfriend...was dating others besides me. It was only when we began to "go steady" that he only dated me.
> 
> I will be the first to admit...when I had my affair....i was 28.. married at 17 to the only boy i had ever dated. I went back to college and it did somewhat feel like i was recapturing a bit of the life I had missed out on by marrying so young. Maybe?...and I dont really know...but perhaps that was a contributing factor in my cheating. I am not saying it was...I am saying it might have been a possibility. Just thinking out loud.


It's cheating if they are lying.

Teenagers cheat too. They lie too.

They lie to their parents, they cheat on their exams. They avoid school work by pretending they are sick and run off to play with members of the opposite sex...

Gee.. sounds like practice runs for marital infidelity to me!

Not all teens behave this way. But I would not be at all surprised to find the teens who lie, and cheat, and play hookey are the ones who end up having affairs when they are married.

Sorry, being young does not give one a right to be promiscuous, dishonest, or to neglect their responsibilities.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It's best to learn one's mistakes when they are younger rather than older anyway. People learn by testing the boundaries of situations. Those who got burned or who can feel the pain of others will start setting standards appropriate for adulthood. 

This generation of teenagers is going t have the hardest time in setting standards, IMO. The whole OSF conundrum has people wondering where to draw the line, especially while others are calling them jealous and insecure. While those you stretch the limits may come to terms with the valuable relationships that they lost.

I guess I am lucky in this sense, I am neither young and therefore feel comfortable with my standards in relationships with other people and I don't have children that I need to guide.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> They lie to their parents, they cheat on their exams. They avoid school work by pretending they are sick and run off to play with members of the opposite sex...
> 
> Gee.. sounds like practice runs for marital infidelity to me!


:scratchhead:


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

The whole cheating scandal hit my home when my son fell in love for the real first time. It was such a teenage love. H has been going on to me about passion missing in marriages... (our's being 27 yrs )) & talking about wanting more hugging, kissing, & public display in ours. I would say things such as, "that's new love, teenage love, we have a deeper love," ((as I thought we were passionate, but not to his standard as I have learned in mc.))...

..but, I had not learned yet of his affair, and when I did, I realized he was experiencing that "teenage love", I also learned, son's gf had said she would had cheated on her previous bf for my son had she met him earlier. 

My son celebrated his 21 b-day, the month before h affair exploded. Months later, gf & son break up. Son is destroyed. Gf is fine... able to move on, tells son, "he'll get use to it, it's his first real love." Meanwhile, h is begging me to return to the marriage, & encouraging son to beg gf. Both son & my life is falling apart, h & son life is falling apart, it's a real house of card collapsing...

I see a beta son, a beta h, I want to see more alpha in my son, more alpha in my h., and if I criticize, I'm being negative, jaded, uncaring.

But what I wonder too, when the poster above mentioned we are teaching the teenager & young adults, how to behave, to learn from experiences they see... 

It all would had been so much easier, had h just realized that teenagers dont really think w their full brain yet, and he wasn't that teenager again, that he really did have it better, as he is now so close to losing it all, but who knows, maybe he will get that second life again.

-sammy


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I think saying cheaters are like teenagers is an insult to teenagers.

They are incredibly selfish and immature people that's for sure. Even in their mannerisms, I agree. Maybe they are like spoiled brat rotten teenagers?


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I am trying to get over the resentment of it all.

Recently, one of the things WS said to me was, "I could be with her but I chose you." While meant to be endearing, confidence boosting protestation of love. The resentment in me says, "Oh goody! I won the contest." Because the betrayed in me feels that he had no reason to make a choice in the first place. His and their relationship was one that never should have happened. He shouldn't have put himself in the position where he'd need to choose. Goody indeed. I was an unwitting, unwilling participant in his contest and I won.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

wow
somethings my stbx said to me to excuse her cheating, to get me to not only accept but join in
"dont you miss being 19 or 20, and all the possibilities"
"It makes me feel like I am young and my whole life is ahead of me"
"It makes me forget that I am knocking on menopause's front door"
"I havent felt this alive since I was 15"...FIFTEEN....jesus you trollop!

My stbx had a LOT of issues dealing with her aging...it wasnt even her looks, it was just the fact that her "time left" wasnt what it used to be...or something like that


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't have personal experience with an affair relationship but from what I've read it is very similar to how we did things in high school 10 yrs ago. Having to do the messaging through out the day and stay up at night sending text messages and myspace. Finding time for sex when you could get it. Keeping it hidden from parents.

Crazy reading WS post on other sites and seeing how they sound like a 17 year old girl. What I find kinda funny/sad is how it the teenagers that are more likely to use protection instead of the adults.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> I am trying to get over the resentment of it all.
> 
> Recently, one of the things WS said to me was, "I could be with her but I chose you." While meant to be endearing, confidence boosting protestation of love. The resentment in me says, "Oh goody! I won the contest." Because the betrayed in me feels that he had no reason to make a choice in the first place. His and their relationship was one that never should have happened. * He shouldn't have put himself in the position where he'd need to choose.* Goody indeed. I was an unwitting, unwilling participant in his contest and I won.


Bullseye. Confidence-boosting my a$$. What about the choice he made when he married you--when did that become subject to a recompetition? This type of thinking is akin to the poor BS thinking he/she has to "win back" the WS. Really? Wasn't that game already won?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Miss Taken said:


> I am trying to get over the resentment of it all.
> 
> Recently, one of the things WS said to me was, "I could be with her but I chose you." While meant to be endearing, confidence boosting protestation of love. The resentment in me says, "Oh goody! I won the contest." Because the betrayed in me feels that he had no reason to make a choice in the first place. His and their relationship was one that never should have happened. He shouldn't have put himself in the position where he'd need to choose. Goody indeed. I was an unwitting, unwilling participant in his contest and I won.



Mine told me he loved me so much that I should ask her, ((ow)) she'd tell me, she was jealous of me. She wanted to have the first love w him that he so much wanted to have w me again. ((puke, puke...))

-sammy


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

So are you saying Cheaters are:

1. Think they know it all
2. Feels they're always right, even when everything points to them being wrong
3. Doesn't listen to people with better experience and judgement
4. Only think of short term happiness with no ability to look at down the road consequences
5. Feel they are invulnerable so don't take precautions to protect their physical body (like condoms)

Dang!!!!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I think saying cheaters are like teenagers is an insult to teenagers.
> 
> They are incredibly selfish and immature people that's for sure. Even in their mannerisms, I agree. Maybe they are like spoiled brat rotten teenagers?


MUCH MUCH better description, because there are some teenagers that don't fit the description I said.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lyndyb said:


> Yep I got "Your the only woman I've ever really loved"


Well, no. That's not strictly true. But the only other woman I ever really loved left me for another woman. Which certainly brought a full stop aka a period to that relationship.

My wife and I have been together for a total of 25 years, so there's lots invested there.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I thought of some of the WS we have come across on TAM yesterday.
> 
> I was passing a school and a pretty young girl (14 to 26) was walking toward me, busy talking *loudly * on her mobile phone. She said: "But, no matter what I do, I know I am going to hurt one of them *very* badly."


Hopefully, her love interests will discover the truth and decide they're both better off not being her options.

Only one person needs 2 be hurt in that kind of si2ation, and it'd do her a world of good!

-ol' 2long


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> I am trying to get over the resentment of it all.
> 
> Recently, one of the things WS said to me was, "I could be with her but I chose you." While meant to be endearing, confidence boosting protestation of love. The resentment in me says, "Oh goody! I won the contest." Because the betrayed in me feels that he had no reason to make a choice in the first place. His and their relationship was one that never should have happened. He shouldn't have put himself in the position where he'd need to choose. Goody indeed. I was an unwitting, unwilling participant in his contest and I won.


Yes MissTaken and an excellent point. I got something similar as in "How could I love her when I am so in love with you.' 
I replied, "Gee I'm so happy to hear that honey. Aren't I lucky that you are so in love with me!"

On teenagers. My teenage daughter often comes home with stories of friends, girls AND boys being cheated on and how devastated they are. Some drop out of school, some girls become anorexic, some start drinking and even taking drugs to numb the pain. Mostly they lose their confidence. I have sat with some of them at my kitchen table. The hurt for them is just the same.

Theirs is just a cruel a world just as ours and is not as carefree as adults who are dissatisfied with their lives look back on with their rose-coloured glasses. All someone is doing who says OM/OW made them feel like a teenager is using that as an excuse for an affair. 

The difference with teenagers is they almost never do R and don't have mortgages or kids. In that way they are very lucky IMO, most especially not having to consider doing R! 

It's all just practice for them for the grown-up world.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

I'll answer MattMatt's post - human-beings, as they age, they progress in the obvious ways of _physicality _and _mentally_. These two, people can vastly improve on.
However, when it comes to _emotionally _progressing, this is where the problem lies.

Hence you have adults who behave like they did when they were teenagers. Look at the evidence - when you fall in love, at any age, you naturally regress due to all the warm, fuzzy feelings you get - you get happy, excited, giddy...hence the _'I feel like a teenager all over again'._
Case-in-point: when you meet a new person of the opposite-sex, whether you're single or cheating - when you start the whole 'texting' part of the relationship...you can't wait to receive the next text off that person - it makes you excited. You're like a teenager again.
Men who decide to buy a sports-car in their 40s, or thinking they can 'do' sports they used to do.....women who start going out on GNOs or falling for bad-boy OM's - it's all tied up with what they call 'Mid-Life Crisis'.

Adults who cheat on their significant others - are no different.

So, it's not a crime, it's not morally wrong, it doesn't warrant a public execution (see, AA's draconian posts).
People have cheated / had affairs / hurt SO's since the dawn of time. 
You ain't gonna change it so deal with it - it's the way the human brain is wired.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

davecarter said:


> So, it's not a crime, it's not morally wrong, it doesn't warrant a public execution (see, AA's draconian posts).
> People have cheated / had affairs / hurt SO's since the dawn of time.
> You ain't gonna change it so deal with it - it's the way the human brain is wired.


Yes, _by definition_ cheating is "morally wrong."

And it IS a crime in _some _states in the USA (not sure about the rest of the world).

You cheat on your taxes, _you PAY for it_.

You cheat on your exams, _you get expelled_.

You cheat at a sporting event... _you get disqualified_.

You cheat on your spouse... nothing?

Sorry, the math is not adding up there.

And lastly, sorry, but the human brain's "wiring" is not an excuse... lots of people with the same "mis-wired brains" don't cheat. Cheaters need to get with the program the rest of us are on. And laws to enforce that would help.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

davecarter said:


> I'll answer MattMatt's post - human-beings, as they age, they progress in the obvious ways of _physicality _and _mentally_. These two, people can vastly improve on.
> However, when it comes to _emotionally _progressing, this is where the problem lies.
> 
> Hence you have adults who behave like they did when they were teenagers. Look at the evidence - when you fall in love, at any age, you naturally regress due to all the warm, fuzzy feelings you get - you get happy, excited, giddy...hence the _'I feel like a teenager all over again'._
> ...


oh, great. Another apologist.

Fortunately, you're wrong. It is morally wrong to lie and betray a trust. period. In addition, the nice thing about being a human being is that you have choice. You have a choice to act on your impulses...or not. So, even if the wiring was there, it still isn't an excuse. It really is pretty easy. If you want to fVck around, get out of the marriage first.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you get phucked around on you also have a choice bail or not. A choice to let others bull crap define you. After all the wayward are the ones that are screwed up why should us good guy deal with their crap?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

There are teenagers who have been "really good kids" and who have demonstrated that they know right from wrong. And yet. 

Something can come over them and against their better judgment, they go off the deep end and do something REALLY stupid. Really out of character.

My WS has said that he was not in his "right mind" when he cheated. I know he wasn't at his best at that point in his life, with both physical and mental health issues going on. Teenagers have hormonal issues going on. I think judgment can fly out the window when the right - er, the wrong set of circumstances comes along and someone is "vulnerable."

That's why there's a big difference between serial cheating and single affairs (and the shorter the affair, I think, the easier it is to reconcile). Like a teenager who gets infatuated for a short time with someone who's a REALLY bad influence, a cheater can lose themselves for awhile and stop thinking straight. If we're compassionate, we can take into account that people are more likely to screw up at times in their lives when their judgment can be more easily clouded.

Unfortunately there are some cheaters who never grew up in the first place, and once you realize you're married to one of those, you probably need to consider running away, and fast. Being married to a perpetual teenager? YIKES!!


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> Unfortunately there are some cheaters who never grew up in the first place, and once you realize you're married to one of those, you probably need to consider running away, and fast. Being married to a perpetual teenager? YIKES!!


Sometimes the warning bells were ringing years ahead of time that you are matched up to someone that isn't reliable.

In those cases yes, cut and run.

That's the challenge is there is such a wide array of motivations for cheating.. some of which are reparable or treatable.

Some are just lose causes.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Yes, _by definition_ cheating is "morally wrong."
> 
> And it IS a crime in _some _states in the USA (not sure about the rest of the world).
> 
> ...


So...answer the question: why is it not still not considered 'illegal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Seriously Allen...you need to start enjoying life.
This 'infidelity' stuff isn't good for you, is it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

davecarter said:


> So...answer the question: why is it not still not considered 'illegal?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It IS illegal in some states in the USA. Not sure about other countries in the world.

So, you are apparently misinformed.

As to why it's not more widespread, that's been said many times. The people that have the authority to change the laws are notorious cheaters : politicians.

Why would a politician shoot himself in the foot with an infidelity law?

They won't.

There's your answer. Said many times on this forum.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> I don't think it's something even teens ought to be doing.
> 
> If they do it now, and no one calls them on it, and they get AWAY with it, they are just teaching themselves to do it again when they are engaged, when married, have children...
> 
> ...


Perhaps. The problem is that most high schools contain numbers of drug users, binge drinkers, and cheaters of various kinds.

Why would you want to advertise?


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

adriana said:


> > Originally Posted by Rugs
> > I don't think there is anything wrong with dating more than one person as long as you are truthful about it.
> 
> 
> It seems fine in theory but hardly ever works well in the real life.


We really don't know. We only hear about marriages with problems here. We never hear about the one's that are working.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It's cheating if they are lying.
> 
> Teenagers cheat too. They lie too.
> 
> ...


You are right, but that is what happens. It happened when I was in high school and if various now gone relatives were telling the truth, it happened to them too. Of course it was somewhat harder back then, but hey, we live in a universe of conveniences.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It IS illegal in some states in the USA. Not sure about other countries in the world.
> 
> So, you are apparently misinformed.
> 
> ...


I know a number of people agree with you. I have the fortune (or misfortune) to be older than many here. I was in high school in the late 1940's.

It was very much the same back then, except that it was all kept secret from parents. Most of the extra energy spent after school in high school was spent trying to have sex. And it was NOT just the guys. Condoms were hard to come by as many drug stores would not sell them to kids.

As for divorce, infidelity was legal grounds in most if not all states. Getting a divorce was very difficult. For example the infidelity had to be observered by a third person to be admissible. Trials were held, people testified. Lawyers badgered. The cost was enormous.

What did folks do? If they could afford it they went to Nevada, stayed for a few weeks, all that was needed to establish residency, and then got a quicky divorce.

That avenue was not open to the average married family because even though it was cheaper than going to court, it was still expensive and involved losing a few weeks' of work.

The result? People went their separate ways without formally divorcing. Husbands walked out on wives who had no recourse and no money. Or they stayed together in miserable marriages where at least one party cheated at will, if not both. Many threads at TAM have spoken about parents in this situation.

The cure was the no fault divorce. Many, if not most divorces in the US today are no fault. The two sides sit down with a court nominated "referee" (or whatever the person is called in the various states) and work out an agreement on the division of property and money and the various rights if there are children. Lawyers may or may not be present. The agreement is then approved by the court (there are laws that have to be followed) and then BANG!, you are divorced.

No fault may have its faults, but believe me, it is much better than what came before.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

verpin zal said:


> It's cheating as long as "them" exist.


Not at all.

Many relationships are happily polyamourous in different ways.

"Normal" isn't the same for everyone.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

lyndyb said:


> That's when my decision would of been to move on and find a man with morals and character


So a person openly dating more than one person is unethical by default?

I'd think being truthful and open about dating others would be a sign of a good ethical foundation for someone not interested in a relationship.

What makes it immoral?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Rugs said:


> Whether it works or not for anyone is a different than if it's cheating. It's not cheating if everyone knows where they stand.
> 
> We all equate dating with sex as well and this is not always true. Dating does not always involve sex.
> 
> The main point is the truth. If you know the truth, you can make your own decision. If it doesn't work out, it would not be because of a cheating lie.


The voice of reason.

Thanks!


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Many relationships are happily polyamourous in different ways.


Depending on who you are asking.

There are a lot of those arrangements around that aren't all that "happy"... but the women have to put up with it.

Myself I don't know one single couple who has tried that long term and succeeded. 

Not a single one.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It IS illegal in some states in the USA. Not sure about other countries in the world.
> 
> So, you are apparently misinformed.
> 
> ...


So, what of the states that do have adultery laws? What's the worst that can happen to the perps?
Either 'Nothing' or a 'Fine'.

See this?:









If you don't know, that's a guy with a sword about to behead a 19 year old Saudi princess, a member of the Royal Family House of Saud, no less...in Jeddah, back in 1977...for _adultery_ with another man (who also was offed).
They were both beheaded, in public.

Maybe we should bring that back, eh Allen?

Adultery/Cheating: it exists, always has, always will
Deal with it or Divorce.

That's how you punish cheaters: Divorce their ass.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

There is a difference between going out on dates with multiple people when you are "just browsing" than while trying to hold down a long term relationship.

Once things get sexual I believe it should become exclusive. That is just my belief, others are allowed to hold a different belief. I just won't be married or in a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't share that belief with me.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

davecarter said:


> Seriously Allen...you need to start enjoying life.
> This 'infidelity' stuff isn't good for you, is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




It's NOT FREAKIN' good for anyone!!!

-sammy


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> It's NOT FREAKIN' good for anyone!!!
> 
> -sammy


Sometimes it is good to check out of motel CWI for a while, it gets heavy around here and it can be a bit too much.

I often voice my opinions and TBH I often wonder if I go over the edge with the tough love aspect? And when that wonder sets in, I know it's time for check out for a few days or a week.

One of the guys I worked with a great many years ago was married to one sister whilst having an affair with the other, the sister lived in their spare room and he used to sneak back to their village to get some action in the middle of the week, I mean a 2hr drive just to pump her puzzy :crazy:.

When they got busted I asked him about it all, he was quite open and honest about it, he said very calmly and quietly that the thrill and excitement was amazing and it made him feel like James Bond with all the sneaky midnight rendezvous and such, he said it became addictive and she was his equivalent to drugs such was the high.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Acoa said:


> There is a difference between going out on dates with multiple people when you are "just browsing" than while trying to hold down a long term relationship.
> 
> Once things get sexual I believe it should become exclusive. That is just my belief, others are allowed to hold a different belief. I just won't be married or in a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't share that belief with me.


The difference is deception.

If there's deception, there's cheating.

It doesn't matter if sex is involved or not. It doesn't matter if you are "just browsing". If there is deception, then it's cheating.

This really is not that hard to understand.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

davecarter said:


> Adultery/Cheating: it exists, always has, always will
> Deal with it or Divorce.
> 
> That's how you punish cheaters: Divorce their ass.


That's what you've got to offer on a "coping with infidelity" forum?

"Deal with it?"

That's it?

Wow, people must be pounding on your door day and night for support. lol

Divorce is hardly adequate "punishment" since BOTH spouses end up divorced. Do the math, TWO people divorce, not one.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

DaveC and AllenA, You guys are obviously not going to agree but why be so disputatious? You each have valid points.

IMO, I do think cheating is morally wrong. I think this would be the general consensus of just about any population surveyed. I thought Allen post #48 was good until the very last sentence. It is wrong but I don't think it should be illegal. Dave's #64 shows where that can lead.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Might be worth adding that if it were illegal there would be no room or time to bring anything else into a court room would there!

Christ, a reality check needed here 

In our hearts we all KNOW it's wrong and in a sense illegal against all the known morality but in our heads we know we have to accept it as a part of human nature and try to deal with it as best we can


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> That's what you've got to offer on a "coping with infidelity" forum?
> 
> "Deal with it?"
> 
> ...


Given the current laws in the Western world...that's pretty much your choices, kiddo.
Deal or Divorce.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

tacoma said:


> So a person openly dating more than one person is unethical by default?
> 
> I'd think being truthful and open about dating others would be a sign of a good ethical foundation for someone not interested in a relationship.
> 
> What makes it immoral?


I think the dating multiple people issue is being viewed differently by both parties. At the early stage of dating, as in NOT in an exclusive relationship. Multi-dating is fine, as long as all parties know. This is especially important if the relationships are sexual due to STDs. 

But it's not okay to have relationships with more than one person at a time. As in mutually agreed upon exclusive relationships.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

davecarter said:


> Given the current laws in the Western world...that's pretty much your choices, kiddo.
> Deal or Divorce.


In the grand scheme of things, you're right.

But if your son or daughter had been married for 10 years with 2 kids, 8 years and 5 years, and their spouse cheated on them....

Would you say to him/her, with a hard pat on the back....



davecarter said:


> Given the current laws in the Western world...that's pretty much your choices, kiddo.
> Deal or Divorce.


There are many wrongs in this world and ultimately the victim just has to "deal" with it. If a drunk driver killed a loved one and got the proverbial slap on the wrist (like happens many times)...You'd have to just "deal with it".

But I don't think we'd take the stance you have Dave. You're on a "Talk about Marriage" forums, and your basically telling people to NOT talk about it and just deal.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

davecarter said:


> Given the current laws in the Western world...that's pretty much your choices, kiddo.
> Deal or Divorce.


Brilliant coping advice "kiddo."


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> You're on a "Talk about Marriage" forums, and your basically telling people to NOT talk about it and just deal.


:iagree:

My point exactly.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> I thought Allen post #48 was good until the very last sentence. It is wrong but I don't think it should be illegal. Dave's #64 shows where that can lead.


_Because laws for infidelity offenses can become excessively punitive, it follows that it's best to not have any at all_?

Is that the logic you are suggesting here?

You DO realize that's full of holes right?

We used to cut off a hand of people caught stealing too.

We don't do that here anymore.

But we still do punish them.

To suggest that we refrain from applying a law at all because it "might" get excessive would pretty much wipe any crime off the books.

Historically most crimes were dealt with more excessively than they are now. _It does not follow that having a law against an offense necessarily leads to excess_ punishment for it. Heck, there are even laws against infidelity in North Carolina that are applied in practice. I don't see anyone beheading anyone in North Carolina. Do you?

Try again.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My exH said that his brother continued to date his girlfriend from high school, well, oublic school to university. They went to different universities, well she Oxford and he a polytechinic,

Well, anyway, he decided to make a surprise visit to her at the end of semester -- and before exams -- and caught her inflagrante.

He had to take his exams a semester later.

Years later, my exH and his mother remained friends with this woman. She is well connected. And when my exBIL announced his engagement, the ex gf sent him a letter of congratulations. Oh she has such nice manners, doesn't she?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> And when my exBIL announced his engagement, the ex gf sent him a letter of congratulations. Oh she has such nice manners, doesn't she?


Now that's class with a capital "C."


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> _Because laws for infidelity offenses can become excessively punitive, it follows that it's best to not have any at all_?
> 
> Is that the logic you are suggesting here?
> 
> ...


Here is the problem with creating laws against infidelity. You are asking the Government to legislate, enforce and create penalties against two consenting adults who are engaged in a relationship while married to other people.

Should not the victim be the one to make that decision? Should not the victim be the one to decide what happens to their unfaithful spouse? Should not control be granted to the victim to decide whether to Divorce, Rug Sweep, Forgive and/or otherwise respond to this? Again, why get the Government involved at all in the bad decisions made by two consenting adults?


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> In the grand scheme of things, you're right.
> 
> But if your son or daughter had been married for 10 years with 2 kids, 8 years and 5 years, and their spouse cheated on them....
> 
> ...


Nope, I'm saying _'Actions, not words'_.
Or...do you corner your spouse and say,_ "You're very naughty! Don't do it again"_

Talking about it helps someone cope who is struggling to a) know why it happened and b) what to _do _from that point on.
i.e. talking about it helped me...and then I made a decision to act.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Brilliant coping advice "kiddo."


And your advice was?



Allen_A said:


> "SAY NO TO DRUGS
> SAY NO TO DRINKS
> SAY NO TO CHEATERS
> That sign should be on every school wall"


I think we all know what pretty much _every _teenager (except the teacher's pets/nerds) would do: the exact opposite.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

survivorwife said:


> Should not the victim be the one to make that decision? Should not the victim be the one to decide what happens to their unfaithful spouse? Should not control be granted to the victim to decide whether to Divorce, Rug Sweep, Forgive and/or otherwise respond to this? Again, why get the Government involved at all in the bad decisions made by two consenting adults?


That's the point of the law... to take the decision OUT of the victim's hands, and put the decision in the hands of an objective third party (gov't) to handle the offenses. Less beheadings that way I guess...

Right now, for the most part, the gov't does not legislate, they just leave every infidelity victim to the wolves.

No legal recourse.

You can't penalize a cheater on your own, and the law won't do it in your stead either.

So, they end up getting away with it most of the time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> My exH said that his brother continued to date his girlfriend from high school, well, oublic school to university. They went to different universities, well she Oxford and he a polytechinic,
> 
> Well, anyway, he decided to make a surprise visit to her at the end of semester -- and before exams -- and caught her inflagrante.
> 
> ...


How very British!

Whilst I was still smarting somewhat from being dumped by my first girlfriend, she very kindly sent me an invitation to her wedding, which was less than a year later.

I politely declined.


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## disconnected (May 30, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> Sometimes it is good to check out of motel CWI for a while, it gets heavy around here and it can be a bit too much.
> 
> I often voice my opinions and TBH I often wonder if I go over the edge with the tough love aspect? And when that wonder sets in, I know it's time for check out for a few days or a week.
> 
> ...


The "James Bond" I am separated from is going through withdrawal big-time. Very well-deserved...


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> _Because laws for infidelity offenses can become excessively punitive, it follows that it's best to not have any at all_?
> 
> Is that the logic you are suggesting here?
> 
> ...


The real point of my post was to try and placate you and dave. I thought it was obvious. I hated to see another thread get jacked and turned into a squabble by a couple of posters. My mistake; you seem to like to argue too much.

As far as law against adultery goes; just what would you like to see? 

Me: I don't think they should be punitive in the sense of fines or jail time. I do think there should be some guidelines regarding divorce though. If there are no children involved I'd be in favor of stiff loss for the WS during a divorce. But that's about as far as I'd go. Laws are too rigid to apply to all the scenarios and family dynamics.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

confusedFather said:


> The real point of my post was to try and placate you and dave. I thought it was obvious. I hated to see another thread get jacked and turned into a squabble by a couple of posters. My mistake; you seem to like to argue too much.
> 
> As far as law against adultery goes; just what would you like to see?
> 
> Me: I don't think they should be punitive in the sense of fines or jail time. I do think there should be some guidelines regarding divorce though. If there are no children involved I'd be in favor of stiff loss for the WS during a divorce. But that's about as far as I'd go. Laws are too rigid to apply to all the scenarios and family dynamics.


I think the problem here is whereby, you have certain posters, who discuss such situations way too logically and statistically without actually being involved in or personally affected by infidelity.
They take on an, at best, 'Objective' PoV and at worst, an 'I-Know-Best' PoV.

That's what you got right there with this guy.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

davecarter said:


> Nope, I'm saying _'Actions, not words'_.
> Or...do you corner your spouse and say,_ "You're very naughty! Don't do it again"_
> 
> Talking about it helps someone cope who is struggling to a) know why it happened and b) what to _do _from that point on.
> i.e. talking about it helped me...and then I made a decision to act.


So you did talk about it...and then acted.

Your advice earlier didn't allow for any talking. It was just "deal" with it.

And if you've been through this, you know, as you demonstrated in your own situation, that you're not going to just start "acting". You need at least a LITTLE recoup and reset time which is achieved through talking.

Talking isn't talking to your cheating spouse. Your "naughty naughty" comment is WAY OFF BASE. Talking is about talking with someone or some people who can help you get your mind reset and strong so you CAN act. We see what happens when someone acts first and thinks later.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> So you did talk about it...and then acted.
> 
> Your advice earlier didn't allow for any talking. It was just "deal" with it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, 'dealing' with it is 'taking action' and not only threatening or filing for Divorce...but going through with it.
That's what I mean by 'dealing' with a cheating spouse.
And not posting threads which trundle on the 100s of pages with heads being removed from the and..then re-buried...then more thinking....and more heartache...blah-blah-blah.

Talking on TAM was a kick up the ass for me.


Glad we got that cleared up.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

davecarter said:


> I think the problem here is whereby, you have certain posters, who discuss such situations way too logically and statistically without actually being involved in or personally affected by infidelity.
> They take on an, at best, 'Objective' PoV and at worst, an 'I-Know-Best' PoV.
> 
> That's what you got right there with this guy.


What a hypocrite.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

davecarter said:


> I think the problem here is whereby, you have certain posters, who discuss such situations way too logically and statistically without actually being involved in or personally affected by infidelity.
> *They take on an, at best, 'Objective' PoV *and at worst, an 'I-Know-Best' PoV.
> 
> That's what you got right there with this guy.


Great insight on the bold. I think we all do this to our detriment. None of these situations are objective. Yet we seek objective advise.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Allen_A said:


> Now that's class with a capital "C."


Or that could be something else.... with a capital "C".


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> What a hypocrite.


Feel free to share your OWN full account of how you personally been affected by infidelity Allen.

I know how it has had so many negative affects on my life but also some of the most significant positives too, seems strange to say that being a victim of infidelity has had a positive affect but it really has, post depression and mourning the marriage I had, I grew and became stronger, it has allowed me to be more aware of myself and of the people around me, it kind of burst my little bubble, shame that though, I liked it when the biggest deal I had in a day was choosing what to do with my truck, mudding or trail driving


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## Hemingway (Jul 19, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I thought of some of the WS we have come across on TAM yesterday.
> 
> I was passing a school and a pretty young girl (14 to 16) was walking toward me, busy talking *loudly * on her mobile phone. She said: "But, no matter what I do, I know I am going to hurt one of them *very* badly."
> 
> ...


So true. They revel in their fantasy world.


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