# I think my wife is having something going on with her PT



## CouldItBeSo

So I think my wife might be having something going on with her _female _personal trainer. They have known each other/training about six months now. The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact. They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.

One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked. I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like? I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.

A week later I noticed wife had forgotten her phone home on the table and decided to take a look and saw this weird text from my wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted...  xoxo" No other messages between them on the phone she propably had deleted them if any and forgot this one.

What should I do? Do you people think there's something going on. Haven't confronted her yet I feel like I need more proof. I mean they could just be friends like BFFs and I'm just paranoid and imagining everything.

Edited for clarity.


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## shazam

CouldItBeSo said:


> So I think my wife might be having something going on with her personal trainer. They have known each other/training about six months now. The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact. They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.
> 
> One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked. I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like? I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.
> 
> A week later I noticed wife had forgotten her phone home on the table and decided to take a look and saw this weird text from my wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted...  xoxo" No other messages between them on the phone she propably had deleted them if any and forgot this one.
> 
> What should I do? Do you people think there's something going on. Haven't confronted her yet I feel like I need more proof. I mean they could just be friends like BFFs and I'm just paranoid and imagining everything.


So you basically pay for your wife to have sex and get in shape with another guy? Get your finances in order and get a divorce.


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## Plan 9 from OS

WOW!!! Your wife was naked from the waist up, lying on her stomach on your bed in your bedroom getting an massage with scented oils from another man...and you turn around and go back downstairs to let them finish????? That's unreal. In fact, don't be surprised if the PT gave your wife a happy ending BECAUSE her husband was loyally sitting downstairs while she got her naked body rubbed by her PT. 

This reminds me of this video: Bob and Tom; Mr. Obvious-Handy man - YouTube

I'm sorry, but...damn! Fvck!!! WTH?!?!


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## ThreeStrikes

CouldItBeSo said:


> So I think my wife might be having something going on with her personal trainer. They have known each other/training about six months now. The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact. They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.
> 
> One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked. I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like? I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.
> 
> A week later I noticed wife had forgotten her phone home on the table and decided to take a look and saw this weird text from my wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted...  xoxo" No other messages between them on the phone she propably had deleted them if any and forgot this one.
> 
> What should I do? Do you people think there's something going on. Haven't confronted her yet I feel like I need more proof. I mean they could just be friends like BFFs and I'm just paranoid and imagining everything.


Yes! There is something going on! You walked in on some dude massaging your wife in YOUR BED! Topless! What would have happened if you didn't show up? Jeezus...was she naked under the towel?

If you need more evidence, though, go into PI mode. How does she contact him? Do you have access to her phone? Does she passcode it? Does she delete her texts? 

Can you check your phone bill and see how often they are texting/talking?

Get a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and hide it in the room where they "train". Even better, set up a nanny-cam.

Holy crap! How many stories do we have to read here about wives fvcking their personal trainers?


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## cj9947

She is flaunting it in your face...


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## Dad&Hubby

CouldItBeSo said:


> So I think my wife might be having something going on with her personal trainer. They have known each other/training about six months now. The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact. They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.
> 
> One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked. I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like? I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.
> 
> A week later I noticed wife had forgotten her phone home on the table and decided to take a look and saw this weird text from my wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted...  xoxo" No other messages between them on the phone she propably had deleted them if any and forgot this one.
> 
> What should I do? Do you people think there's something going on. Haven't confronted her yet I feel like I need more proof. I mean they could just be friends like BFFs and I'm just paranoid and imagining everything.


:lol:
Wait you're serious?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!

You CAN'T be serious!

If I came home and found that situation, I wouldn't quietly walked around to my side of the bed and grabbed the aluminum bat I have hidden under there (I don't own guns, but do believe in protecting my family). At that point I don't care who I hit.

PS My wife has had a PT...SHE'S a wonderful woman who's married with 2 kids and my wife gets along with her great. NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS would I let my wife have a Male PT come to our house SIX days a week for 6 months. He sees your wife more than you do!!


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## Cubby

To all you husbands out there reading this....don't ever...EVER allow your wife to train with a male personal trainer.

The POS personal trainer who my wife was flirting with told her "all the trainers are having sex with their clients." Was he exaggerating? I suppose he was. But probably not exaggerating a lot.


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## COguy

shazam said:


> So you basically pay for your wife to have sex and get in shape with another guy? Get your finances in order and get a divorce.


I was reading the post and saying, "He pays this guy to come to his house and screw his wife in his bed."

What about this arrangement sounds normal to you? The part where he comes to the house six days a week? The part where they kiss eachother on the cheek? Or the part where he oils her up in your bed naked?

If you still think everything is fine, then after the text message, if you still have doubts, you deserve to keep paying for it.


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## BrockLanders

I have a hard time believing this one.


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## COguy

This trainer is like, "Wow I was oiling up Cindy in her bed, about to screw the bejesus out of her, and her husband walked in on us! I thought I was in trouble. She told him to go downstairs and leave us alone and we screwed while he waited in the kitchen! Then he gave me a check and said thanks and he apologized for walking in on us!"


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## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> So I think my wife might be having something going on with her personal trainer.
> 
> *Ok. Hold on. :redcard: Sorry. If you are ok with your wife having a ,ale personal trainer I say ... bad idea. This gives another man too much access and power with your wife. Plus you get to pay him. There are plenty of good female PTs.
> *
> They have known each other/training about six months now. The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact.
> 
> *Yes, this is how it works my friend. This relationship can be very intimate.*
> 
> They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.
> 
> *Huh? This is not in a public GYM! BTW this sounds like another thread from last year. I think your wife dating her PT is against the best interests of the marriage.
> Personal training is very touchy feely. It can be a seduction. A kino escalation. He has plausible denial to touch her pretty much anywhere AND she has plausible denial to enjoy it. He does. Keep in mind many PTs consider this a perk. To bed married women. They have disdain for the gullible guy who allows it. This is just a variation on the old gigolo stuff with the tennis or golf pro. Just more initmate. Very easy for a guy to get a certification to be a PT. The biggest red flag is not that this is happening but that you are so passive as to allow it. Maybe this is a hotwifing story. He is attractive. You are not being attractive by letting another ,ale have access to your wife. So he has a display of high value and you have a display of low value.
> *
> One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked.
> 
> *Ok. Hotwifing story. Dear Penthouse. Yeah thst would be just a tad suspiscious. In your freaking bed. She only had on a towel and she was topless. Ok so after you shot him what did you tell the police?* *So this infers that you are not in the house when she ummmm trains.*
> 
> *Insitgation
> Isolation
> Escalation*
> 
> *Being your own home seems safer than her going to his place. But it runs the risk of them having sex in your bed. *
> 
> I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like?
> 
> You had to ask? Seriously? UFB.
> 
> I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist.
> 
> *Wow. How great. A trained therapist does not massage a married woman in her bed.*
> 
> I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.
> 
> *You went downstairs and allowed them to finish? Right.* *This is a cuckold fantasy now. No man is that gullible.*
> 
> A week later I noticed wife had forgotten her phone home on the table and decided to take a look and saw this weird text from my wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted...  xoxo" No other messages between them on the phone she propably had deleted them if any and forgot this one.
> 
> What should I do? Do you people think there's something going on.
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't confronted her yet I feel like I need more proof. I mean they could just be friends like BFFs and I'm just paranoid and imagining everything.


You found her in the bed with her PT.

Yes, some husbands are gullible enough to allow their wives to have a male PT. But what husband is os with their wife having "private" sessions in her home when the husband is gone? But you went way over the top with finding them in your bed and then leaving so they could "finish".


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## husbandfool

Troll?


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## mahike

Really, You are not sure what is going on? You think something is going on? If this is for real your wife is having an A with her trainer. You have to deal with this right now. Does he work for someone else or is he self employed? Call him out on this. Call your wife out on it right now.


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## keko

I think something is going on too.

But I can't quite put my finger on it. What could it be? Hmm.


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## PHTlump




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## COguy

I'm responding as if it's not a troll because I know there really are people this stupid, even if this post is fake.


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## Entropy3000

ThreeStrikes said:


> If you need more evidence, though, go into PI mode. How does she contact him? Do you have access to her phone? Does she passcode it? Does she delete her texts?
> 
> Can you check your phone bill and see how often they are texting/talking?


Yes indeed the phone bill is key.

Setting up a nanny cam is only going to video this guy f^cking her upside down and backwards. if he wanted to see that he had his chance. He could have stayed and watched. 

I think trying to prove an EA is not the right move here.


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## LoriC

Dude, there are just no words! Time to kick the wife to the curb, how dare she disrespect you in your own house no less.


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## bfree

Why anyone would pay another man to touch his wife is beyond me. If you're smart enough to find TAM you're smart enough to know that personal trainers, tennis instructors, swimming coaches, etc. are a bad idea.


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## CouldItBeSo

Ok, hold on everyone I'm not a troll. I realise my post was a bit misleading and messy since I had to go somewhere and I made it in a hurry. The important information I forgot to add in the OP is that the trainer is a woman. Yes, I would never let a male PT train her. See, now this is not so simple anymore... 

Anyway thanks everyone for the replies. Didn't read every reply yet since there was quite a few. Just wanted to clear this as it changes the angle pretty much I think. I'm going back to read everything now.


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## CouldItBeSo

shazam said:


> So you basically pay for your wife to have sex and get in shape with another guy? Get your finances in order and get a divorce.


Not paying it myself (wife is). She is getting in shape indeed but not with a guy (see my post above).


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## 3putt

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, hold on everyone I'm not a troll. I realise my post was a bit misleading and messy since I had to go somewhere and I made it in a hurry. *The important information I forgot to add in the OP is that the trainer is a woman.* Yes, I would never let a male PT train her. See, now this is not so simple anymore...
> 
> Anyway thanks everyone for the replies. Didn't read every reply yet since there was quite a few. Just wanted to clear this as it changes the angle pretty much I think. I'm going back to read everything now.


Yeah, that _is_ a tad bit on the important side, don'tcha think?


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## ThreeStrikes

3putt said:


> Yeah, that _is_ a tad bit on the important side, don'tcha think?


Not really. One of my wife's affair partners was a woman.


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## mahike

Does not matter if it a man or woman giving your wife the big O and A is an A. You need to deal with this right now!


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## 3putt

ThreeStrikes said:


> Not really. One of my wife's affair partners was a woman.


Sure, it _can_ happen, but I think it reduces the odds quite a bit.


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## CouldItBeSo

Plan 9 from OS said:


> WOW!!! Your wife was naked from the waist up, lying on her stomach on your bed in your bedroom getting an massage with scented oils from another man...and you turn around and go back downstairs to let them finish????? That's unreal. In fact, don't be surprised if the PT gave your wife a happy ending BECAUSE her husband was loyally sitting downstairs while she got her naked body rubbed by her PT.
> 
> This reminds me of this video: Bob and Tom; Mr. Obvious-Handy man - YouTube
> 
> I'm sorry, but...damn! Fvck!!! WTH?!?!





ThreeStrikes said:


> Yes! There is something going on! You walked in on some dude massaging your wife in YOUR BED! Topless! What would have happened if you didn't show up? Jeezus...was she naked under the towel?
> 
> If you need more evidence, though, go into PI mode. How does she contact him? Do you have access to her phone? Does she passcode it? Does she delete her texts?
> 
> Can you check your phone bill and see how often they are texting/talking?
> 
> Get a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and hide it in the room where they "train". Even better, set up a nanny-cam.
> 
> Holy crap! How many stories do we have to read here about wives fvcking their personal trainers?


I think it's pretty standard to have the top off when getting a back massage. Also many use oil to ease the friction. I don't know if she was wearing anything under the towel really as I didn't think much about it back then until I saw the text.

They have a set time when the trainer comes over at out place around one hour before I come home from work I guess. I don't really know if she's deleting texts since there was only this one to her trainer among the other normal texts. I'm going to look at the phone bill. Though I'm sure they talk on phone at least since they have become friends so not sure what to look at?


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## keko

Just set up a few hidden camera's around the house. You'll get your answer within a day.

Check Brickhousesecurity.com for hidden cams.


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## The Middleman

Look, if you're not comfortable with this whole situation, just tell her how you feel and that you want the sessions to end. If she says no, then you need to be prepared to start taking some actions. Maybe you insist that their sessions are limited to when you are home. Start being a pain in the ass.


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## CouldItBeSo

Dad&Hubby said:


> :lol:
> Wait you're serious?
> 
> ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!
> 
> You CAN'T be serious!
> 
> If I came home and found that situation, I wouldn't quietly walked around to my side of the bed and grabbed the aluminum bat I have hidden under there (I don't own guns, but do believe in protecting my family). At that point I don't care who I hit.
> 
> PS My wife has had a PT...SHE'S a wonderful woman who's married with 2 kids and my wife gets along with her great. NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS would I let my wife have a Male PT come to our house SIX days a week for 6 months. He sees your wife more than you do!!


She's a woman also. Though even it was a man I wouldn't hit anyone as I don't approve violence. I don't think she sees her more than me (at least what I know of) 1-2 hours per workout.


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## theroad

Wow

It must be April 1st, I must check my calender.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

Why did everyone jump to the conclusion of the PT being a man? There is no "he" in the post. 

There is no "she" while describing the PT either... OP are you screwing with us?


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## CouldItBeSo

COguy said:


> I was reading the post and saying, "He pays this guy to come to his house and screw his wife in his bed."
> 
> What about this arrangement sounds normal to you? The part where he comes to the house six days a week? The part where they kiss eachother on the cheek? Or the part where he oils her up in your bed naked?
> 
> If you still think everything is fine, then after the text message, if you still have doubts, you deserve to keep paying for it.


I don't think they were "screwing" though it looked a bit weird. That combined with the text is the reason I posted to ask here. Kissing on the cheek I don't know really what it could mean. My wife is a sports crazy nowdays so a long time I didn't think much of it until I started to notice how they interact.


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## lonewolf8545

Why don't you lay on your bed and have the PT give YOU a massage. See how your wife reacts to that.


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## Thoreau

lonewolf8545 said:


> Why don't you lay on your bed and have the PT give YOU a massage. See how your wife reacts to that.


Excellent idea. Book an appt. with her for a massage.


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## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, hold on everyone I'm not a troll. I realise my post was a bit misleading and messy since I had to go somewhere and I made it in a hurry. The important information I forgot to add in the OP is that the trainer is a woman. Yes, I would never let a male PT train her. See, now this is not so simple anymore...
> 
> Anyway thanks everyone for the replies. Didn't read every reply yet since there was quite a few. Just wanted to clear this as it changes the angle pretty much I think. I'm going back to read everything now.


I would not be ok with a woman being in bed with my wife in this way. You said flirting. Fine. Gender does not matter then.


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## sandc

How is it that you left out in the original posting that the PT was a female? That's a rather glaring oversight.

What else do you think may be pertinent?


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## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think it's pretty standard to have the top off when getting a back massage. Also many use oil to ease the friction. I don't know if she was wearing anything under the towel really as I didn't think much about it back then until I saw the text.
> 
> They have a set time when the trainer comes over at out place around one hour before I come home from work I guess. I don't really know if she's deleting texts since there was only this one to her trainer among the other normal texts. I'm going to look at the phone bill. Though I'm sure they talk on phone at least since they have become friends so not sure what to look at?


Not in your bed.


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## badbane

Okay well lets see I am torn here because I know how close a PT and a trainee can get. As long as the relationship stays professional and your wife isn't really pursuing extra curricular activities IE. bars and spending the night. I would say they could be really close. I have heard rumors of PT's in my area basically brokering affairs amoung her clientele. That is a unique situation but one i have heard of nonetheless. Now the first thing I would do is find out the sexual orientation of the PT. IF the PT is bi or a lesbian then I would treat the situation the same as a man. Especially if you aren't being charged for those massages. 
I would suggest a var in the bedroom. Since I am guessing the workout equipment is not there and exercise noise can be misconstrued as sex noise "to and extent" like "deeper deeper" could simply be a bench or squat movement. So my conclusion is that you wouldn't be a good husband if you didn't look into this. 

I would examine how the PT is being paid. I would see if your payment to the PT the week or day of the massage was higher than normal. IF it was higher I would not jump to a hasty conclusion about the one incident. What you need to look for are patterns of behavior not just one or two occurrences. The biggest sign of something being up will likely be if she is contacting the PT more than is necessary for a friend/professional relationship. I am willing to bet that the PT and your wife use the phone as their primary means of communication. Start with the phone log online and see if she is contacting the PT more than she is contacting you. That is a good measure of contact since the H or W should be the most contacted person in a relationship barring the phone being a work phone.


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## verpin zal

Why were you at the house while they were "touching"? Gotta give 'em some space, dammit. Your attitude towards your wife and her PT is entirely unacceptable. Next time grab the shopping list and leave quietly, interruption is so untowards of a husband.


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## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Personal training is very touchy feely. It can be a seduction. A kino escalation. He has plausible denial to touch her pretty much anywhere AND she has plausible denial to enjoy it. He does. Keep in mind many PTs consider this a perk. To bed married women. They have disdain for the gullible guy who allows it. This is just a variation on the old gigolo stuff with the tennis or golf pro. Just more initmate. Very easy for a guy to get a certification to be a PT. The biggest red flag is not that this is happening but that you are so passive as to allow it. Maybe this is a hotwifing story. He is attractive. You are not being attractive by letting another ,ale have access to your wife. So he has a display of high value and you have a display of low value.


They are indeed a bit too touchy and they both seem have fun. And yes the PT is very attractive as you would assume from a woman who works out a lot and is in shape.



Entropy3000 said:


> Ok. Hotwifing story. Dear Penthouse. Yeah thst would be just a tad suspiscious. In your freaking bed. She only had on a towel and she was topless. Ok so after you shot him what did you tell the police? So this infers that you are not in the house when she ummmm trains.


Hotwifing? I'm not going to shoot anyone. Don't even own a gun.



Entropy3000 said:


> You went downstairs and allowed them to finish? Right. This is a cuckold fantasy now. No man is that gullible.


Didn't really feel like watching her getting a back massage maybe I should have...


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## CouldItBeSo

mahike said:


> Really, You are not sure what is going on? You think something is going on? If this is for real your wife is having an A with her trainer. You have to deal with this right now. Does he work for someone else or is he self employed? Call him out on this. Call your wife out on it right now.


She is self employed as far as I know.


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## Plan 9 from OS

sandc said:


> How is it that you left out in the original posting that the PT was a female? That's a rather glaring oversight.
> 
> What else do you think may be pertinent?


Agree. It was a glaring omission. I won't say it was done intentionally, but it explains why the OP would be more confused about how to deal with the situation. But as others say, it doesn't matter if it's man on wife or woman on wife. If the wife is cheating, it's cheating.


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## Entropy3000

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Why did everyone jump to the conclusion of the PT being a man? There is no "he" in the post.
> 
> There is no "she" while describing the PT either... *OP are you screwing with us?*


Yes. But he indicated she was flirting and so on. But indeed one would not leave this out unless one wanted the reaction he got.


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## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes indeed the phone bill is key.
> 
> Setting up a nanny cam is only going to video this guy f^cking her upside down and backwards. if he wanted to see that he had his chance. He could have stayed and watched.
> 
> I think trying to prove an EA is not the right move here.


I don't know about the cam sounds a bit too stalkerish and creepy?


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## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> They are indeed a bit too touchy and they both seem have fun. And yes the PT is very attractive as you would assume from a woman who works out a lot and is in shape.
> 
> 
> Hotwifing? I'm not going to shoot anyone. Don't even own a gun.
> 
> *LOL. How did you get that from my post. Nice try. You know what that is. If not google it. It still applies here.*
> 
> 
> Didn't really feel like watching her getting a back massage maybe I should have...


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## CouldItBeSo

3putt said:


> Yeah, that _is_ a tad bit on the important side, don'tcha think?


Yes I realise that now but most PTs I know of are women. They are doing yoga and aerobic work outs etc. stuff without heavy weights. Not many men do these as they go for the bench press heavy weight lifting etc.


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## weightlifter

Get one of those camera clock or outlet expander thingies. This one sounds like 2 weeks max for a conclusive answer.

I would not confront until I got my answers.


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## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes I realise that now but most PTs I know of are women. They are doing yoga and aerobic work outs etc. stuff without heavy weights. Not many men do these as they go for the bench press heavy weight lifting etc.


Not sure where you live. Male personal trainers are very common. It depends on the GYM. 

I sometimes go to a famous hardcore GYM. There there are these type of PTs. The ones who are training Mr Olympia types or cpmpetitive Powerlfters.

Most of the time I go to the neighborhood GYM however. The male PTs rarely have guys as clients. There are more male PTs than female PTs in this GYM. Part of the perk I guess for the ladies. Maybe the female PTs go to women;s homes and massage them in their beds.


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## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> Okay well lets see I am torn here because I know how close a PT and a trainee can get. As long as the relationship stays professional and your wife isn't really pursuing extra curricular activities IE. bars and spending the night. I would say they could be really close. I have heard rumors of PT's in my area basically brokering affairs amoung her clientele. That is a unique situation but one i have heard of nonetheless. Now the first thing I would do is find out the sexual orientation of the PT. IF the PT is bi or a lesbian then I would treat the situation the same as a man. Especially if you aren't being charged for those massages.
> I would suggest a var in the bedroom. Since I am guessing the workout equipment is not there and exercise noise can be misconstrued as sex noise "to and extent" like "deeper deeper" could simply be a bench or squat movement. So my conclusion is that you wouldn't be a good husband if you didn't look into this.
> 
> I would examine how the PT is being paid. I would see if your payment to the PT the week or day of the massage was higher than normal. IF it was higher I would not jump to a hasty conclusion about the one incident. What you need to look for are patterns of behavior not just one or two occurrences. The biggest sign of something being up will likely be if she is contacting the PT more than is necessary for a friend/professional relationship. I am willing to bet that the PT and your wife use the phone as their primary means of communication. Start with the phone log online and see if she is contacting the PT more than she is contacting you. That is a good measure of contact since the H or W should be the most contacted person in a relationship barring the phone being a work phone.


That's what I wanted to know, how professional they are. It's hard to figure out since they are friends and many of the exercises require some from of touching I guess. I don't really know how to figure out her orientation I'm gonna look like a stupid jerk if I go and ask her directly. I'm going to look at the var option. Yes they are sometimes quite loud with their exercises and could be hard to tell what's happening from sound alone. My wife told the massage was an "extra" favor because she's her favourite client when I asked and that's when I found out she's apparently a masseuse also.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't know about the cam sounds a bit too stalkerish and creepy?


I would never do that myself. I am not a surviellance guy. I am more the up close and personal in your face, out in the open upfront kinda guy.

But then again I would have kicked the PT out of the house and dealt with the wife on this one. No way that is appropriate.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> That's what I wanted to know, how professional they are. It's hard to figure out since they are friends and many of the exercises require some from of touching I guess. I don't really know how to figure out her orientation *I'm gonna look like a stupid jerk if I go and ask her directly.* I'm going to look at the var option. Yes they are sometimes quite loud with their exercises and could be hard to tell what's happening from sound alone. My wife told the massage was an "extra" favor because she's her favourite client when I asked and that's when I found out she's apparently a masseuse also.


Why would you care about this? Why would you let that decide your action? 

Right. An extra.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Not sure where you live. Male personal trainers are very common. It depends on the GYM.
> 
> I sometimes go to a famous hardcore GYM. There there are these type of PTs. The ones who are training Mr Olympia types or cpmpetitive Powerlfters.
> 
> Most of the time I go to the neighborhood GYM however. The male PTs rarely have guys as clients. There are more male PTs than female PTs in this GYM. Part of the perk I guess for the ladies. Maybe the female PTs go to women;s homes and massage them in their beds.


I guess that's the difference as she doesn't work for any gym but is self empoyed. If you look at aerobic work outs for example most of the instructors are women. Also most of the people doing aerobics etc. are women as men want to gain muscle mass while women want to get lean mostly. She's not actually training weight lifting.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Why would you care about this? Why would you let that decide your action?
> 
> Right. An extra.


I guess I'm a gentleman? It just sounds too personal question to me to ask out of the blue.


----------



## Chaparral

Was she standing by the bed or on it?


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I guess I'm a gentleman? It just sounds too personal question to me to ask out of the blue.


LOL. That is hilarious. I am a gentlemen and I care about my wife and marriage too much to fear anything like this. A gentleman is not a Beta guy. He is NOT pssive. He has a combination of Alpha and Beta charcteristics. A quality man I call it. Good to show your Beta side as a default but not knowing or not able to invoke the Alpha is a bit too passive IMO. YMMV. A gentlemen is NOT afraid. Is not passive. Is not weary of engaging. Is NOT a conflict avoider. 

So we probably define a gentleman differently. Your gentlemen sounds like a Nice Guy. You can define gentleman any way you wish.

You cannot talk to your wife about personal things. Maybe this is part of the issue. Initmacy means you can discuss anything. Certainly the ladies in your bed is rather personal.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> Was she standing by the bed or on it?


She was sitting astride on her legs.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I guess that's the difference as she doesn't work for any gym but is self empoyed. If you look at aerobic work outs for example most of the instructors are women. Also most of the people doing aerobics etc. are women as men want to gain muscle mass while women want to get lean mostly. She's not actually training weight lifting.


I get that. I never assumed weightlifting. Yoga stuff has its origins with tantirc arts and so on. When does your wife shower? After you get home?


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> She was sitting astride on her legs.


Sweet. How odd. Even I own a massage table. I do often massage my wife in the bed though. Typically as foreplay. Especially when I get in the bed. But not always. But funny thing is when we do not have sex I am usually standing.

A professional would use a massage table. Not climb into the marital bed.

Anyway, good luck.


----------



## ThePheonix

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's hard to figure out since they are friends and many of the exercises require some from of touching I guess. I don't really know how to figure out her orientation I'm gonna look like a stupid jerk if I go and ask her directly.


The orientation of the PT may not be what you have to worry about. Remember you said, " Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on . From your comment, the wife may like the soft touch of the female trainer. The PT may be as straight as an arrow.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> LOL. That is hilarious. I am a gentlemen and I care about my wife and marriage too much to fear anything like this. A gentleman is not a Beta guy. He is NOT pssive. He has a combination of Alpha and Beta charcteristics. A quality man I call it. Good to show your Beta side as a default but not knowing or not able to invoke the Alpha is a bit too passive IMO. YMMV. A gentlemen is NOT afraid. Is not passive. Is not weary of engaging. Is NOT a conflict avoider.
> 
> So we probably define a gentleman differently. You gentlemen sounds like a Nice Guy.
> 
> You cannot talk to your wife about personal things. Maybe this is part of the issue. Initmacy means you can discuss anything. Certainly the ladies in your bed is rather personal.


I was talking about asking the PT actually as badbane suggested I ask her about her sexual orientation. You don't think it's too invasive to ask out of the blue? She's not actually my friend I see her now and then when she leaves after the workout. I guess I'm a nice guy. Surely if I ask my wife (not sure if she knows either) about that she will get a clue that I'm on them. And if I'm wrong as I hope, she's never gonna forgive me as it's basically suggesting her having something going on with a woman.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ThePheonix said:


> The orientation of the PT may not be what you have to worry about. Remember you said, " Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on . From your comment, the wife may like the soft touch of the female trainer. The PT may be as straight as an arrow.


Maybe the PT is straight as an arrow, but the wife isn't. Unless it's common for a woman to text another woman in this way:



> "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted... *xoxo*"


Is it common for a woman to use "XOXO" when texting another woman? My guess is that it isn't.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> I get that. I never assumed weightlifting. Yoga stuff has its origins with tantirc arts and so on. When does your wife shower? After you get home?


After the work out and yes I'm home usually at that time.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Sweet. How odd. Even I own a massage table. I do often massage my wife in the bed though. Typically as foreplay. Especially when I get in the bed. But not always. But funny thing is when we do not have sex I am usually standing.
> 
> A professional would use a massage table. Not climb into the marital bed.
> 
> Anyway, good luck.





Plan 9 from OS said:


> Maybe the PT is straight as an arrow, but the wife isn't. Unless it's common for a woman to text another woman in this way:
> 
> Is it common for a woman to use "XOXO" when texting another woman? My guess is that it isn't.


Well I don't know I've seen this happen before between female friends. I guess it's different between women as they are usually more intimate. It's not uncommon to see two female friends holding hands/linked arms on the streets. The text was what sent off alarms but now I realise my wife types "xoxo" to all her female friends (on FB for example) so I don't know.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> I guess I'm a gentleman? It just sounds too personal question to me to ask out of the blue.


No. You sound like a whipped kept boy. A meal ticket who's selfish wife is far too used to you doting on her. 

Does she work, does she contribute to the household? Must be nice to have a PT and be pampered and have a husband who puts up with all that garbage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> I was talking about asking the PT actually as badbane suggested I ask her about her sexual orientation. You don't think it's too invasive to ask out of the blue? She's not actually my friend I see her now and then when she leaves after the workout. I guess I'm a nice guy. Surely if I ask my wife (not sure if she knows either) about that she will get a clue that I'm on them. And if I'm wrong as I hope, she's never gonna forgive me as it's basically suggesting her having something going on with a woman.


She was in YOUR bed getting oiled up by another woman. What did she think you would think? If she saw another man massaging you in your marital bed I'm pretty sure she'd think you were approaching Liberace proportions of gay.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bandit.45 said:


> No. You sound like a whipped kept boy. A meal ticket who's selfish wife is far too used to you doting on her.
> 
> Does she work, does she contribute to the household? Must be nice to have a PT and be pampered and have a husband who puts up with all that garbage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she does work and we actually have almost equal salaries.


----------



## Chaparral

How has your sex life been over the last few years? How have things changed? How long has the pt been coming to your house?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BrockLanders said:


> She was in YOUR bed getting oiled up by another woman. What did she think you would think? If she saw another man massaging you in your marital bed I'm pretty sure she'd think you were approaching Liberace proportions of gay.


Yes I realise that but you must admit it is more accepted for two women to show intimacy. I don't think she thought about it since when I saw them I came home early. So she probably didn't expect me home that time. So do you think getting a massage is a sexual act?


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I was talking about asking the PT actually as badbane suggested I ask her about her sexual orientation. You don't think it's too invasive to ask out of the blue? She's not actually my friend I see her now and then when she leaves after the workout. I guess I'm a nice guy. Surely if I ask my wife (not sure if she knows either) about that she will get a clue that I'm on them. And if I'm wrong as I hope, she's never gonna forgive me as it's basically suggesting her having something going on with a woman.


I see. You were answering another persons question. I took it as talking with your wife.

Look, I agree the dynamic with a female here is a bit different. 

A guy found in that position straddling my wife would have been dealt with harshly in a personal way of my choosing. 

If I found a woman like you say, I would have handled it differently but indeed in either case they would not have been allowed to finish and that would have been the last time they came to my home.

I would not ask her her sexual orientation as to me it would not change my actions or how I felt about it one way or another. Now this is just me and you may feel differently. That is fine.

Our bedroom is off limits to anyone but my wife and I. I am discounting when my wife might bring my daughter in to show her the new bedspread or things she bought at the store and so on. Normal stuff. But it is off limits to non family. 

If there was to be massaging I would expect it to be done on a massage table in a professional manner. That said I would be ok then with a female doing the massage.
But this would seem odd if not mentioned before. As you point out it was an "extra". No, just no.

The thing is that having defined boundaries that a couple has discussed upfront can get around much of this. Couples have different boundaries.

I suggest you decide what your truly are. decide whether you feel any have been crossed. Then discuss these boundareis with your wife. Couples boundaris need to be mutually agreed upon. That said, you also can have personal boundaries. You decide.

Do you feel boundaries have been crossed? Rather than us give you our opinions perhaps you could what your boundaries are and then people can comment on your situation in proper context.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> How has your sex life been over the last few years? How have things changed? How long has the pt been coming to your house?


The sex life seems good to me and her too or she's very good actress otherwise. They've been training around six months.


----------



## Machiavelli

Cubby said:


> To all you husbands out there reading this....don't ever...EVER allow your wife to train with a male personal trainer.
> 
> The POS personal trainer who my wife was flirting with told her "all the trainers are having sex with their clients." Was he exaggerating? I suppose he was. But probably not exaggerating a lot.


I only have two married female clients at the moment. One woman works out at the same time as her husband, the other I'm good friends with her husband. My facility is also attached to my home, so my wife or our adult kids are around at all times. See how that works? If a trainer is reasonably good looking and doesn't have a massive beer gut he can be The Keymaster.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> The sex life seems good to me and her too or she's very good actress otherwise. They've been training around six months.


Go to your local spy shop and get some hidden cameras. You can get them on line, too. Put a VAR under your bed. Cam your bed and the workout area.


----------



## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes I realise that but you must admit it is more accepted for two women to show intimacy. I don't think she thought about it since when I saw them I came home early. So she probably didn't expect me home that time. So do you think getting a massage is a sexual act?



Sure, it's more likely for a woman to give a woman a kiss on the cheek than a man give another man a kiss on the cheek, but a rubdown is a major escalation. Does this woman have a license?


----------



## badbane

In the last six months have their been any changes in her behavior? 
Really think hard here. The biggest tipoff might be the smallest change in behavior.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> I see. You were answering another persons question. I took it as talking with your wife.
> 
> Look, I agree the dynamic with a female here is a bit different.
> 
> A guy found in that position straddling my wife would have dealt with harshly in a personal way of my choosing.
> 
> If I found a woman like you say, I would have handled it differently but indeed in either case they would not have been allowed to finish and that would have been the last time they came to my home.
> 
> I would not ask her her sexual orientation as to me it would not change my actions or how I felt about it one way or another. Now this is just me and you may feel differently. That is fine.
> 
> Our bedroom is off limits to anyone but my wife and I. I am discounting when my wife might bring my daughter in to show her the new bedspread or things she bought at the store and so on. Normal stuff. But it is off limits to non family.
> 
> If there was to be massaging I would expect it to be done on a massage table in a professional manner. That said I would be ok then with a female doing the massage.
> But this would seem odd if not mentioned before. As you point out it was an "extra". No, just no.
> 
> The thing is that having defined boundaries that a couple has discussed upfront can get around much of this. Couples have different boundaries.
> 
> I suggest you decide what your truly are. decide whether you feel any have been crossed. Then discuss these boundareis with your wife. Couples boundaris need to be mutually agreed upon. That said, you also can have personal boundaries. You decide.
> 
> Do you feel boundaries have been crossed? Rather than us give you our opinions perhaps you could what your boundaries are and then people can comment on your situation in proper context.


There's a lot going on even in their workout and it's sometimes hard to tell if they are just professional or touching on purpose. Many of the "moves" would be a no no for two men.

Yes it was an "extra" favor, they are that good friends huh.

I guess I need to think about boundaries. The thing that set me off was in the text it felt like they were going for "something more" and I interrupted them and now they're gonna do replay sometime in the future.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> Go to your local spy shop and get some hidden cameras. You can get them on line, too. Put a VAR under your bed. Cam your bed and the workout area.


I don't really feel comfortable putting cameras as it can get nasty if she notices something. Plus it's creepy in my opinion. I gotta look the var tomorrow.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BrockLanders said:


> Sure, it's more likely for a woman to give a woman a kiss on the cheek than a man give another man a kiss on the cheek, but a rubdown is a major escalation. Does this woman have a license?


I don't think she's a licenced masseuse but she's trained for it. PT is her main job.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> In the last six months have their been any changes in her behavior?
> Really think hard here. The biggest tipoff might be the smallest change in behavior.


Haven't really noticed other than her having a major sports craze. Though I realise now that I don't actually know if they met/knew each other before they started working out.


----------



## sandc

Just put a VAR in the two rooms they use for their "workouts." Listen to the noises. 

You don't want to be creepy? It's not creepy that your wife's PT, a woman, was sitting astride your topless wife? Really? REALLY??

If you don't think it's creepy then I'm not sure what we can do for you.


----------



## ThePheonix

I think CIBS would make a better defense attorney than a prosecutor.


----------



## Machiavelli

sandc said:


> You don't want to be creepy? * It's not creepy that your wife's PT, a woman, was sitting astride your topless wife? * Really? REALLY??
> 
> If you don't think it's creepy then I'm not sure what we can do for you.


Hmm. Actually, now that you mention it...Creepy isn't exactly the first word that comes to mind. I guess it all depends on what the lady trainer looks like.


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



Machiavelli said:


> Hmm. Actually, now that you mention it...Creepy isn't exactly the first word that comes to mind. I guess it all depends on what the lady trainer looks like.


Word homie.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't really feel comfortable putting cameras as it can get nasty if she notices something. Plus it's creepy in my opinion. I gotta look the var tomorrow.


Your marriage is in jeopardy and you are worried about creepy. Just say it is a new security system and stop worrying about her. you need to worry about you and your kids.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't really feel comfortable putting cameras as it can get nasty if she notices something. Plus it's creepy in my opinion. I gotta look the var tomorrow.


----------



## AlphaHalf

> The reason I suspect is they have become really (too) friendly with each other, touchy feely, smiling a lot and long eye contact. They train at our house 6 days a week. They always hug and kiss on the cheek when the PT leaves. They also go out for a coffee sometimes.
> 
> One incident that really raised my suspicion afterwards was when I came home early from work. They were upstairs in our bed and my wife was laying on her stomach receiving an "oil massage" and she was only wearing a towel with her top half naked. I asked what's going on and she said what does it look like? I'm getting a massage. Apparently the PT is also a trained physiotherapist. I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on but I didn't think more about it then and went downstairs to have a glass of water and wait for them to finish.


Not buying this BULLSHIVICK, its its almost to the point of you being so stupid that you deserve to be cheated on. (wrong to say but I can't help thinking it when I read this. Seriously!!!!! Come On.... NO Freakin Way!!!!


----------



## bryanp

Sorry but I do not buy this post for a second. He is playing you guys.


----------



## Entropy3000

bryanp said:


> Sorry but I do not buy this post for a second. He is playing you guys.


Or are we playing him?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

The fact that you found them in your bed would be reason enough for me to go all high spy on her their arses. If your wife gets talked in to taking a walk on the wild side by her PT then you'll probibely wished that you had at least VARed the bedroom and workout area.


----------



## All of a sudden

What was PTt wearing? Where they on the bed sideways or how you would lay down. When your wife finally came down did she have oil on her boobs? The text about being interupted iis a red flag.


----------



## SomedayDig

CouldItBeSo said:


> I could tell from my wife's look she was a bit turned on


Cue the saxaphone.

Seriously?!


----------



## dogman

SomedayDig said:


> Cue the saxaphone.
> 
> Seriously?!



You know, I started reading this last night and I quit when I got to the part where he walked in and they were on his bed getting an oil rub. I came back because I saw dig was the last to post, and I just had to see what he said about it. Just what I thought.


----------



## weightlifter

Wait was wife face up or face down?


----------



## Toffer

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't really feel comfortable putting cameras as it can get nasty if she notices something. Plus it's creepy in my opinion. I gotta look the var tomorrow.


And another one decides that's it's better to stick their head in the sand.

Seriously, you need to know what's going on! Use all methods at your disposal!

So if you just hear slurping noises on the VAR, will you assume that they're having sex or drinking a Big Gulp?


----------



## spudster

Is the PT a guy or a woman? I'm confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mahike

spudster said:


> Is the PT a guy or a woman? I'm confused.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Woman


----------



## CouldItBeSo

All of a sudden said:


> What was PTt wearing? Where they on the bed sideways or how you would lay down. When your wife finally came down did she have oil on her boobs? The text about being interupted iis a red flag.


She was wearing her usual workout attire (what I've seen) I think they're called yoga pants and a sports top. Nothing unusual. They were sideways on the foot end of the bed. She took a shower and came down dressed. Yes, I agree the text is weird.

To all doubters, there was no saxophones playing, it looked like a normal massage but when putting in context with the text it didn't feel so innocent anymore. All the things I mentioned in the OP (the touching, "flirting") started to look suspicious only after seeing the text message.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> Your marriage is in jeopardy and you are worried about creepy. Just say it is a new security system and stop worrying about her. you need to worry about you and your kids.


I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?


----------



## SomedayDig

How many forums do you belong to and what kind of info have they given you?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

"I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?"

It IS in jeopardy and if you confront her with out any proof you'll only make it harder to get the proof.


----------



## Chaparral

I have never had a professional massage. I have never heard of a masseuse lying astride the victim........er client. Isn't that how they do it in the porn world and maybe the kind of massage places that give happy endings?

It was an oil massage. With her yoga pants on. Sitting on top of your naked wife. Currently, yoga pants are what women are wearing in public, that are skin tight, and look like leotards.

If all this is real you've got a problem. 

You are way past worrying about creepy.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?


Because if she is cheating with this woman, she will lie and swear to it on her children's/parent's graves.

If you confront without verification you will never know and she will make you look like an idiot.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> Wait was wife face up or face down?


Face down.



Toffer said:


> And another one decides that's it's better to stick their head in the sand.
> 
> Seriously, you need to know what's going on! Use all methods at your disposal!
> 
> So if you just hear slurping noises on the VAR, will you assume that they're having sex or drinking a Big Gulp?


I understand where you're coming from but I don't want to accuse my wife of cheating if I'm wrong. So I'm trying the var option first.

"Slurping noises" you're funny. I guess it's fine to joke about cheating in here but only if the participants are two women?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

SomedayDig said:


> How many forums do you belong to and what kind of info have they given you?


This is the only forum atm. I don't really know any other forums discussing marriage things. Do you have suggestions?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> "I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?"
> 
> It IS in jeopardy and if you confront her with out any proof you'll only make it harder to get the proof.


Yes, I thought so too. It was just a quick idea.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?


Then she will lie and be more secretive about it. You don't want to drive them underground. The only way to kill an Affair is to inject a whole lot of reality into the fantasy. Overwhelming proof is usually necessary as the A puts them into a fog like state where the A is the most important thing in their lives. I think you are stumbling in on this early. You need to find out for sure if this is just your wife enjoying a massage or a bi / lesbian trainer that is grooming your wife for an affair. You will be looking for unprofessional texts. Intentions to meet outside of the regular paid times. Changes in your payments to her. I would start asking your PT for an itemized invoice. Tell her it is for tax purposes and you can see if she is charging you for extra services. Which is what you would hope for honestly.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> I have never had a professional massage. I have never heard of a masseuse lying astride the victim........er client. Isn't that how they do it in the porn world and maybe the kind of massage places that give happy endings?
> 
> It was an oil massage. With her yoga pants on. Sitting on top of your naked wife. Currently, yoga pants are what women are wearing in public, that are skin tight, and look like leotards.
> 
> If all this is real you've got a problem.
> 
> You are way past worrying about creepy.


Well obviously since they are friends it's not a strict professional environment. I suppose it was easier that way since our bed is quite huge. There was a towel between them I guess it's wrong to say "naked", topless would be more accurate (but she was laying on her stomach so no boobs showing or anything).

Yes yoga pants are what they are. Quite distracting I would say. But that's what almost every woman wears when working out minus those who wear the skin tight shorts which are even more distracting. Look at sprint runners for example.


----------



## Thor

CIBS, welcome to TAM.

My 2 cents worth: Listen to the wisdom here. These folks have btdt themselves and seen it a thousand times over on this forum.

So the biggest gem you have gotten so far is this - do NOT confront her in any way unless you have good proof.

Read that again a couple more times and abide by it. Even if you don't really believe it, abide by it.

Cheaters 99.99% of the time deny an affair when asked. Even when presented with a smoking gun they will deny it. A cheater will only confess when confronted with iron clad proof, and then they will only confess to what they think you already know.

The second gem you've been given is that you need to move quickly to gather data. A VAR is ok but in your case there is much more you can do since it is in your house. There are a ton of spy video cameras available disguised as anything from a stuffed animal to a clock radio to a book. Most houses have enough junk in them that you can find something which your wife would not notice as being new or out of place.

The third important piece of advice is when you do find something incriminating do not confront your wife instantly. Calm down. Take the dog for a walk. Then get on this forum and get expert advice on how to proceed.

Think right now about what you want. If she is having some sort of affair, is it an absolute divorce for you? Are there other factors like kids or complicated finances which make reconciliation more preferable?

If you do get absolute proof of an affair the folks here will give you the best advice on how to either kill the affair or get on the path to the best divorce.


----------



## Chaparral

Is the trainer married? You woulkd not believe how many threads are here concerning women and trainers at gyms though they have been with men.

Massage therapists are in the top three professions to commit adultery. Number one in many studies.

Ask her if she has a boyfriend. Watch her reaction closely.


----------



## PHTlump

CouldItBeSo said:


> I understand it might be in jeopardy. What if I just ask her about it?


If you just want to bring it up, then I would be careful. You obviously can't ask her if she's cheating on you. If she is, she would deny it. If she isn't, she'll be angry that you thought she was.

So, what you have to do is make it about you. Tell her that you're getting a bad vibe from the PT. You think the PT is after her. Tell her you don't want her hanging with the PT any more. That's about you and your feelings. Now, your wife will probably argue that you're irrational. But you can't help how you feel. Just tell her that you need her to do this for you. Obviously, your wife is super trustworthy and would never, ever cheat. But you just don't like a wolf hanging around her. It makes you jealous and you don't want to go all caveman on this PT.

You can even offer that she can continue the friendship, but you want to be around the run interference. If she wants to go out with the PT, you can all go on double dates with the PT and her boyfriend. Although that is a dangerous game. It's best to cut her out of your lives completely.

Obviously, if a woman you're friends with was making your wife nervous, you would stop associating with her. Or at least cut it way back. That's a loving act to reassure your spouse. Your wife should be willing to do the same for you.

Don't ignore your gut. There are too many stories to count of people ignoring their guts, only to find out their spouses were cheating.

Good luck.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> "Slurping noises" you're funny. I guess it's fine to joke about cheating in here but only if the participants are two women?


Well, at least you don't have to worry about adultery.


----------



## BrockLanders

Ask your wife to schedule a massage session for you. The woman is a professional, right? It's only fair you get one as well.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Thor said:


> CIBS, welcome to TAM.
> 
> My 2 cents worth: Listen to the wisdom here. These folks have btdt themselves and seen it a thousand times over on this forum.
> 
> So the biggest gem you have gotten so far is this - do NOT confront her in any way unless you have good proof.
> 
> Read that again a couple more times and abide by it. Even if you don't really believe it, abide by it.
> 
> Cheaters 99.99% of the time deny an affair when asked. Even when presented with a smoking gun they will deny it. A cheater will only confess when confronted with iron clad proof, and then they will only confess to what they think you already know.
> 
> The second gem you've been given is that you need to move quickly to gather data. A VAR is ok but in your case there is much more you can do since it is in your house. There are a ton of spy video cameras available disguised as anything from a stuffed animal to a clock radio to a book. Most houses have enough junk in them that you can find something which your wife would not notice as being new or out of place.
> 
> The third important piece of advice is when you do find something incriminating do not confront your wife instantly. Calm down. Take the dog for a walk. Then get on this forum and get expert advice on how to proceed.
> 
> Think right now about what you want. If she is having some sort of affair, is it an absolute divorce for you? Are there other factors like kids or complicated finances which make reconciliation more preferable?
> 
> If you do get absolute proof of an affair the folks here will give you the best advice on how to either kill the affair or get on the path to the best divorce.


Thanks. I've got a var coming. About the spycam not sure if I could stomach if there's something going on. I don't think many here would want to see their spouses cheating in action.

Haven't really thought about what I would do if she is indeed having an affair. I think because it's a woman it's harder to see what's going on as the rules are not the same exactly. No kids. We are living in an apartment no complicated financies.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> Is the trainer married? You woulkd not believe how many threads are here concerning women and trainers at gyms though they have been with men.
> 
> Massage therapists are in the top three professions to commit adultery. Number one in many studies.
> 
> Ask her if she has a boyfriend. Watch her reaction closely.


She's single according to my wife. No idea about her boyfriends. MT's top three? Hmm. I guess dancers are on top then?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PHTlump said:


> If you just want to bring it up, then I would be careful. You obviously can't ask her if she's cheating on you. If she is, she would deny it. If she isn't, she'll be angry that you thought she was.
> 
> So, what you have to do is make it about you. Tell her that you're getting a bad vibe from the PT. You think the PT is after her. Tell her you don't want her hanging with the PT any more. That's about you and your feelings. Now, your wife will probably argue that you're irrational. But you can't help how you feel. Just tell her that you need her to do this for you. Obviously, your wife is super trustworthy and would never, ever cheat. But you just don't like a wolf hanging around her. It makes you jealous and you don't want to go all caveman on this PT.
> 
> You can even offer that she can continue the friendship, but you want to be around the run interference. If she wants to go out with the PT, you can all go on double dates with the PT and her boyfriend. Although that is a dangerous game. It's best to cut her out of your lives completely.
> 
> Obviously, if a woman you're friends with was making your wife nervous, you would stop associating with her. Or at least cut it way back. That's a loving act to reassure your spouse. Your wife should be willing to do the same for you.
> 
> Don't ignore your gut. There are too many stories to count of people ignoring their guts, only to find out their spouses were cheating.
> 
> Good luck.


See, that's where I think the logic does not apply. You are comparing me with a female friend while you should compare me with a male friend. Of course me with a woman (or her with a man) would warrant jealousy but she would be basically looking at it like I'm telling her to dump her good friend. Makes sense?


----------



## mahike

CouldItBeSo said:


> Thanks. I've got a var coming. About the spycam not sure if I could stomach if there's something going on. I don't think many here would want to see their spouses cheating in action.
> 
> Haven't really thought about what I would do if she is indeed having an affair. I think because it's a woman it's harder to see what's going on as the rules are not the same exactly. No kids. We are living in an apartment no complicated financies.


My Sister in-law had an affair with another woman, it does happen. An affair is an affair it is a violation of the trust between and husband and wife so treat it as such. The VAR is a good start, you could also place a GPS and Var in her car as well but I think you are going to get something right away with the VAR's in the house.

Another clue is does your wife hang on to her phone at all times, taking it to the bathroom with her. If you can check messages on her phone look to see if she is deleting the ones to the trainer. Look at your bill is she texting all day and night to this woman?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BrockLanders said:


> Ask your wife to schedule a massage session for you. The woman is a professional, right? It's only fair you get one as well.


Not sure what would I accomplish with this?


----------



## Toffer

CouldItBeSo said:


> Thanks. I've got a var coming. About the spycam not sure if I could stomach if there's something going on. I don't think many here would want to see their spouses cheating in action.
> 
> Haven't really thought about what I would do if she is indeed having an affair. I think because it's a woman it's harder to see what's going on as the rules are not the same exactly. No kids. We are living in an apartment no complicated financies.


Just be aware that sometimes VARs aren't enough

If you need to confront, you'll be told things like "That was said in jest" or "that's not what you heard, she was squishing the oil in her hands"


----------



## TDSC60

A professional PT never uses the bedroom as a training site.
A professional Message therapist never uses the bed. If she came to your home with message supplies (oils, lotions) she should also have had a portable message table. You have a big red flag here that they both planned to use the bed and did not expect you to come home. The follow up text makes it fairly clear in my opinion. Your wife is looking forward to a more complete, uninterrupted message.

Reconsider the cameras. You can purchase security cams that look like a clock or a small US drive or a multitude of everyday items.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

mahike said:


> My Sister in-law had an affair with another woman, it does happen. An affair is an affair it is a violation of the trust between and husband and wife so treat it as such. The VAR is a good start, you could also place a GPS and Var in her car as well but I think you are going to get something right away with the VAR's in the house.
> 
> Another clue is does your wife hang on to her phone at all times, taking it to the bathroom with her. If you can check messages on her phone look to see if she is deleting the ones to the trainer. Look at your bill is she texting all day and night to this woman?


The bill shows daily calls and texting between them but nothing friends would not do normally. She doesn't really protect her phone but I guess she deletes texts for what ever reason.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

TDSC60 said:


> A professional PT never uses the bedroom as a training site.
> A professional Message therapist never uses the bed. If she came to your home with message supplies (oils, lotions) she should also have had a portable message table. You have a big red flag here that they both planned to use the bed and did not expect you to come home. The follow up text makes it fairly clear in my opinion. Your wife is looking forward to a more complete, uninterrupted message.
> 
> Reconsider the cameras. You can purchase security cams that look like a clock or a small US drive or a multitude of everyday items.


They don't actually train in the bedroom. We have a spare room for that with a cross trainer where I also have a bench and some weights. Her profession is PT and she's only trained MT. According to my wife she had sore shoulders/back muscles from the training and she offered to help. Which is believable with six days a week schedule. The oil they used was ours.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> *They don't actually train in the bedroom.* We have a spare room for that with a cross trainer where I also have a bench and some weights. Her profession is PT and she's only trained MT. According to my wife she had sore shoulders/back muscles from the training and she offered to help. Which is believable with six days a week schedule. The oil they used was ours.


No, they just use the bedroom for "after" they are done. The point is that the trainer had the massage oils and everything all ready to go that time, at least. Sorry, I'm in agreement with the idea of the cams. If for no other reason than your own peace of mind.


----------



## weightlifter

DO THE CAMERAS NOW!

HIRE A PI to watch them if you cant take it.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> Not sure what would I accomplish with this?


Recruit her into your harem?


----------



## 3putt

Machiavelli said:


> Recruit her into your harem?


That was my first thought, but I'm a pig, so who cares what I think.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> The bill shows daily calls and texting between them but nothing friends would not do normally. She doesn't really protect her phone but I guess she deletes texts for what ever reason.


They see each other six days a week, right? Why do they need to text and call? I use texting for appointment confirmation the day before and that's it, other than dietary advice. Besides, there is no reason to workout 6 days a week, unless you're on an anabolic steroids and you're trying to get your monies worth while you're spending the big bucks and have the fast recovery time.

I train several trainers and coaches myself. At the moment, only one is a woman and while she has a super hot body, she also plays softball, KWIM? In my experience, bisexuality in female athletes is pretty high compared to the female population as a whole (15%?) and even greater in coaches (good grief, lesbian is more like it), also greater in trainers but not as bad as coaches. If you want to call bisexual females "bad." Which is crazy.

One thing about these stereotypes: they didn't get to be stereotypes by accident.


----------



## Machiavelli

3putt said:


> That was my first thought, but I'm a pig, so who cares what I think.


Pigs don't think that way, but MEN do.


----------



## PBear

Does your wife delete texts from everyone, or just her PT?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

CouldItBeSo said:


> See, that's where I think the logic does not apply. You are comparing me with a female friend while you should compare me with a male friend. Of course me with a woman (or her with a man) would warrant jealousy but she would be basically looking at it like I'm telling her to dump her good friend. Makes sense?


You're looking at it differently than I am. It's not OK for my wife to hang out with any person who is interested in seducing her. I don't care if that person is male, female, or other. I don't care if my wife considers that person attractive, or repulsive. It's just not cool.

Yes, I think your situation is unusual. If the PT were a man, it would be a foregone conclusion that your wife was cheating. Since the PT is a woman, and your wife has never (I'm assuming) shown lesbian or bisexual tendencies, it's unclear. However, there are stories of women cheating with other women. It's unusual, but it can happen.

That's why I suggest you not make it about your wife and whether she is an aspiring lesbian. Make it about the PT. Tell her you think the PT is after her. Tell her you're getting a very predatory vibe from the PT. Tell her that you heard a rumor that the PT is a lesbian and has had sex with her female clients. That should make her explain the PT a little better. She may bring up a husband or boyfriend. She may agree with you.

I agree that women are usually more comfortable being intimate around each other than men are. But there should still be boundaries.


----------



## Machiavelli

PHTlump said:


> I agree that women are usually more comfortable being intimate around each other than men are. But there should still be boundaries.



Women are sexually fluid by nature, unlike men. They are also more likely to engage in same partner sexual experimentation than men, even though there are many more homosexual males than females. Again, it's all about the fluidity.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> DO THE CAMERAS NOW!
> 
> HIRE A PI to watch them if you cant take it.





Maricha75 said:


> No, they just use the bedroom for "after" they are done. The point is that the trainer had the massage oils and everything all ready to go that time, at least. Sorry, I'm in agreement with the idea of the cams. If for no other reason than your own peace of mind.


According to my wife it's the only time they've been there. The PT didn't bring the oil it was ours and she kinda hinted she could use a massage (according to her).

Anyway, I went and bought a pen video camera. They come in HD these days... sigh. Will see if something is going on in the coming days.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> Recruit her into your harem?





3putt said:


> That was my first thought, but I'm a pig, so who cares what I think.





Machiavelli said:


> Pigs don't think that way, but MEN do.


I love my wife and have no intent to invite anyone else into our marriage. That would be just a fast way to get divorced.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> They see each other six days a week, right? Why do they need to text and call? I use texting for appointment confirmation the day before and that's it, other than dietary advice. Besides, there is no reason to workout 6 days a week, unless you're on an anabolic steroids and you're trying to get your monies worth while you're spending the big bucks and have the fast recovery time.
> 
> I train several trainers and coaches myself. At the moment, only one is a woman and while she has a super hot body, she also plays softball, KWIM? In my experience, bisexuality in female athletes is pretty high compared to the female population as a whole (15%?) and even greater in coaches (good grief, lesbian is more like it), also greater in trainers but not as bad as coaches. If you want to call bisexual females "bad." Which is crazy.
> 
> One thing about these stereotypes: they didn't get to be stereotypes by accident.


It's most likely standard friend stuff, talk about this and that? I have no idea actually what they talk about when I'm not present. She sometimes speaks with her on the phone at home while I'm there.

I agree six days a week is a bit too much but like I said she's gone sports crazy. She probably wants six-pack or something like the PT has. Yes she has a six-pack (or is it a four-pack for women) which is quite impressing. Though I think they do some yoga thrown in there too some days.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> I love my wife and have no intent to invite anyone else into our marriage. That would be just a fast way to get divorced.


Why should it be any slower if she were trying to bring someone into the marriage? Just asking. It goes both ways. You have to hold each other to the same requirements. 

Ask her how she would have felt if she walked into the bedroom and saw you laying on the bed with only a towel and a super hot chick oiling you down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PBear said:


> Does your wife delete texts from everyone, or just her PT?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess she deletes other texts too but I haven't really looked at her phone other than that one time.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's most likely standard friend stuff, talk about this and that? I have no idea actually what they talk about when I'm not present. She sometimes speaks with her on the phone at home while I'm there.
> 
> I agree six days a week is a bit too much but like I said she's gone sports crazy. She probably wants six-pack or something like the PT has. Yes she has a six-pack (or is it a four-pack for women) which is quite impressing. Though I think they do some yoga thrown in there too some days.


Does she have this much interaction with her other female friends?

If not, then she and this gal have some lesbian lovin going on. There is just no reason for any person to be that close to a trainer. If she is taking time away from you to talk and gab to this PT, it is not appropropriate whether it be romantic or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Entropy3000 said:


> So do you go to clients homes and give them hot oil massages on their bed?
> 
> As an extra?


UH OH!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PHTlump said:


> You're looking at it differently than I am. It's not OK for my wife to hang out with any person who is interested in seducing her. I don't care if that person is male, female, or other. I don't care if my wife considers that person attractive, or repulsive. It's just not cool.
> 
> Yes, I think your situation is unusual. If the PT were a man, it would be a foregone conclusion that your wife was cheating. Since the PT is a woman, and your wife has never (I'm assuming) shown lesbian or bisexual tendencies, it's unclear. However, there are stories of women cheating with other women. It's unusual, but it can happen.
> 
> That's why I suggest you not make it about your wife and whether she is an aspiring lesbian. Make it about the PT. Tell her you think the PT is after her. Tell her you're getting a very predatory vibe from the PT. Tell her that you heard a rumor that the PT is a lesbian and has had sex with her female clients. That should make her explain the PT a little better. She may bring up a husband or boyfriend. She may agree with you.
> 
> I agree that women are usually more comfortable being intimate around each other than men are. But there should still be boundaries.


So I guess you would not let your wife go into a swimming hall? As usually people shower after swimming and other women would see her naked. Which is totally ok. But not if there was men mixed in there don't you think.

I assume if I start telling lesbian stories about the PT my wife will get a clue I'm onto them if she has something to hide. Besides telling that would be lying which I won't do.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> I love my wife and have no intent to invite anyone else into our marriage. That would be just a fast way to get divorced.


It doesnt' have to be that way. Before the Greeks came along and introduced monogamy, everybody was polygynous.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBe, you have a majority of some very experienced posters looking at this sitaution and telling you something isn't right. 

It could be that your wife may just be elated to have a new friend....a girl crush of sorts which are generally innocent and die down after a few weeks. 

But that isn't what is happening here. Your wife and this woman are spending waaaaay too much time calling and texting each other, at the expense of your marriage and relationship. Wether or not this is a sexual affair, your wife has already crossed a boundary by giving time to this woman that she should be giving to her husband. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bandit.45 said:


> Why should it be any slower if she were trying to bring someone into the marriage? Just asking. It goes both ways. You have to hold each other to the same requirements.
> 
> Ask her how she would have felt if she walked into the bedroom and saw you laying on the bed with only a towel and a super hot chick oiling you down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's not openly recruiting anyone into her "harem".

It's not the same if I were with a woman in our bedroom. If she were with a man then it would be the same.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's most likely standard friend stuff, talk about this and that? I have no idea actually what they talk about when I'm not present. She sometimes speaks with her on the phone at home while I'm there.
> 
> I agree six days a week is a bit too much but like I said she's gone sports crazy. She probably wants six-pack or something like the PT has. Yes she has a six-pack (or is it a four-pack for women) which is quite impressing. Though I think they do some yoga thrown in there too some days.


Yoga? Why am I not surprised. Yoga originated as pre-foreplay for tantric sex. At its base, the moves and poses are designed to increase blood flow to the pelvis and genitals preparatory to a sex marathon. 

And yes, really lean women can get a six pack, although a four pack is enough for extreme hotness. or not. Kate Upton has a two pack. Anyway, exercise doesn't really get you a six pack, it appears automatically when you get your bodyfat low enough. 99% of that is about how you eat.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bandit.45 said:


> Does she have this much interaction with her other female friends?
> 
> If not, then she and this gal have some lesbian lovin going on. There is just no reason for any person to be that close to a trainer. If she is taking time away from you to talk and gab to this PT, it is not appropropriate whether it be romantic or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suppose not but she's probably her best friend atm. She doesn't have that many good female friends.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> She's not openly recruiting anyone into her "harem".
> 
> It's not the same if I were with a woman in our bedroom. If she were with a man then it would be the same.


I disagree...

What if she walked in and you were on the bed being oiledup by a half naked college boy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> So do you go to clients homes and give them hot oil massages on their bed?
> 
> As an extra?


Generally, no. But I'm willing to change that policy as soon as I get Sofia Vergara as a client.


----------



## bandit.45

Machiavelli said:


> Generally, no. But I'm willing to change that policy as soon as I get Sofia Vergara as a client.


Oooooh yessa.....she be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> She's not openly recruiting anyone into her "harem".
> 
> It's not the same if I were with a woman in our bedroom. If she were with a man then it would be the same.


Umm, no. Read that NYT article I linked to on female sexual fluidity. You'll see plenty of women dumping their H for a woman. You'll also see women bringing in other women for the H, when he's very high SMV relative to the W. Obviously, that's not happening in your case, though. She's keeping the trainer to herself.


----------



## Machiavelli

BTW, what kind of shape are you in, OP?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bandit.45 said:


> I disagree...
> 
> What if she walked in and you were on the bed being oiledup by a half naked college boy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol, I guess that would look bad. But again, different standards for women. Though she is not a college girl nor was she half naked, she had pants and top on.


----------



## bfree

My bed is used for sleeping and/or sex. And I had better be participating in both. You can run your household however you see fit. As for your wife's relationship with her PT. I don't care if her PT is a woman, a man, a monkey or a horse. If she is spending time with that person when she should not be then its a problem that needs to be handled. If a PT is not acting in a professional manner then they need to be fired. If she considers her to be a friend then she should not be getting a sensual massage from a friend. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to say that you find it inappropriate and unacceptable.


----------



## TRy

Machiavelli said:


> Before the Greeks came along and introduced monogamy, everybody was polygynous.


Machiavelli, i usually agree with most of your posts, but I am calling you on this one. Although modern birth control makes other options more viable, monogamy has been the dominate norm since the early days of human civilization. Prior to that, historians do not really know.


----------



## bandit.45

TRy said:


> Machiavelli, i usually agree with most of your posts, but I am calling you on this one. Although modern birth control makes other options more viable, monogamy has been the dominate norm since the early days of human civilization. Prior to that, historians do not really know.


Hence why cavemen drug their women around by the hair. 

Territory!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

bandit.45 said:


> Hence why cavemen drug their women around by the hair.
> 
> Territory!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Also, was an effective tool for cleaning the cave floor.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> BTW, what kind of shape are you in, OP?


I guess pretty good I'm 6'1/198ish. No beer belly.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> My bed is used for sleeping and/or sex. And I had better be participating in both. You can run your household however you see fit. As for your wife's relationship with her PT. I don't care if her PT is a woman, a man, a monkey or a horse. If she is spending time with that person when she should not be then its a problem that needs to be handled. If a PT is not acting in a professional manner then they need to be fired. If she considers her to be a friend then she should not be getting a sensual massage from a friend. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to say that you find it inappropriate and unacceptable.


I can't really tell her not to have friends though. That would be too controlling. I think it's healthy to have some friend time too in a marriage. Of course not if it becomes too friendly. If I say something she surely becomes aware and go underground if there's something to hide. I'm going to see what the cam shows.


----------



## PHTlump

CouldItBeSo said:


> So I guess you would not let your wife go into a swimming hall? As usually people shower after swimming and other women would see her naked. Which is totally ok. But not if there was men mixed in there don't you think.


Again, I will not allow anyone to attempt to seduce my wife without my interference. Whether the seducer is a man or a woman makes no difference to me.

That is my part in my marriage. I am the husband. I have every right to be territorial regarding my wife. If I erroneously believe another man (or woman) to be a threat to my marriage, and I engage in some pretty obvious mate guarding, so be it. Better protect my marriage erroneously than to falsely assume everything's fine because I don't want to look like a jerk.

Peruse this board for a while. You'll find no shortage of men who thought their wives might be looking to cheat, but didn't want to look like a jerk, so they waited until their wives pulled the trigger and irreparably harmed the marriage. I would rather be a happy jerk than a miserable, politically correct, beta wimp.



CouldItBeSo said:


> I assume if I start telling lesbian stories about the PT my wife will get a clue I'm onto them if she has something to hide. Besides telling that would be lying which I won't do.


I agree that it would sound fishy. And if you won't lie, well you're handicapping yourself. But that's your business.

I hope everything turns out well for you. But I also hope that, if it doesn't, you're not sitting around telling your buddies about how you were too honorable, naive, and obtuse to end, or prevent, your wife's affair with another woman. That would be tragic.


----------



## PHTlump

CouldItBeSo said:


> I can't really tell her not to have friends though. That would be too controlling. I think it's healthy to have some friend time too in a marriage. Of course not if it becomes too friendly.


You're sitting here arguing your wife's case.

Nobody is saying that your wife shouldn't have any friends. That is absurd. And it would be controlling.

But it's not too controlling to insist that your wife keep her clothes on around her friend. It's not too controlling to insist that your wife and her friend stay out of your bed. It's not too controlling to insist that 6 days a week, plus social time outside of that, is an excessive amount of time for friends to spend together. That's the amount of time that families, or couples, spend together.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PHTlump said:


> Again, I will not allow anyone to attempt to seduce my wife without my interference. Whether the seducer is a man or a woman makes no difference to me.
> 
> That is my part in my marriage. I am the husband. I have every right to be territorial regarding my wife. If I erroneously believe another man (or woman) to be a threat to my marriage, and I engage in some pretty obvious mate guarding, so be it. Better protect my marriage erroneously than to falsely assume everything's fine because I don't want to look like a jerk.
> 
> Peruse this board for a while. You'll find no shortage of men who thought their wives might be looking to cheat, but didn't want to look like a jerk, so they waited until their wives pulled the trigger and irreparably harmed the marriage. I would rather be a happy jerk than a miserable, politically correct, beta wimp.


So you think she's trying to seduce my wife? For all I know it could be the other way around. After all it was her topless and who sent that text so I don't know. 



PHTlump said:


> I agree that it would sound fishy. And if you won't lie, well you're handicapping yourself. But that's your business.
> 
> I hope everything turns out well for you. But I also hope that, if it doesn't, you're not sitting around telling your buddies about how you were too honorable, naive, and obtuse to end, or prevent, your wife's affair with another woman. That would be tragic.


The thing is, I can't really stop her if that's what she truly wants.


----------



## bandit.45

And PHTlump knocks it outta the park! Man that ball has a motor on it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PHTlump said:


> You're sitting here arguing your wife's case.
> 
> Nobody is saying that your wife shouldn't have any friends. That is absurd. And it would be controlling.
> 
> But it's not too controlling to insist that your wife keep her clothes on around her friend. It's not too controlling to insist that your wife and her friend stay out of your bed. It's not too controlling to insist that 6 days a week, plus social time outside of that, is an excessive amount of time for friends to spend together. That's the amount of time that families, or couples, spend together.


Yes, I agree about the clothes part. I guess I was too stunned to say anything back then. Honestly it didn't look that bad without the text. Most of their training time is when I'm at work, around 1-1.5 hours before I come home and 0.5-1 hours after that. Sometimes they are already quitting when I arrive. It's not like I never get to spend time with her.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I can't really tell her not to have friends though. That would be too *controlling*. I think it's healthy to have some friend time too in a marriage. Of course not if it becomes too friendly. If I say something she surely becomes aware and go underground if there's something to hide. I'm going to see what the cam shows.


Not the C word. Nooooooooooo!!!!


----------



## bfree

CouldItBeSo said:


> I can't really tell her not to have friends though. That would be too controlling. I think it's healthy to have some friend time too in a marriage. Of course not if it becomes too friendly. If I say something she surely becomes aware and go underground if there's something to hide. I'm going to see what the cam shows.


What is it with the controlling thing. You can't be controlling unless you have a .38 subnose pointed at her face. All you can do is lay down your boundaries and if they are crossed enforce the consequences. That's not controlling its stating what you expect from her as your wife and what you are not willing to tolerate as her husband. Is this PT willing to provide the same "services" for you as she is providing to your wife? I would say probably not. So then it isn't a professional relationship. Would your wife be ok with you getting a sensual massage from one of your friends, male or female? I would bet not. So therefore its inappropriate. Investigate all you want (and I encourage you to do so) but at some point you are going to have to put your foot down and stand up for yourself. Call it what you want, controlling or something else, but if you don't stand up for yourself sure as heck nobody else will.


----------



## sandc

OP, have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy yet? If not, please pick up a copy and read it stat.


----------



## bfree

sandc said:


> OP, have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy yet? If not, please pick up a copy and read it stat.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> The thing is, I can't really stop her if that's what she truly wants.


 You many not be able to stop her if she want to have an affair with another woman, but you can and should let her know that you will divorce her if she does. 

Actually a good way to handle this would be to tell your wife today that you found the massage episode with the other woman concerning. Then remind her that cheating is cheating no matter if it is with a man or another woman. This will put her on notice if she is cheating or thinking of cheating, and alarm her if she is not. Some people feel that you should do nothing until you have irrefutable evidence, which is great if you are looking to be right when you divorce. I believe that if you want to try to save the marraige, that waiting that long is often too late.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> According to my wife it's the only time they've been there. The PT didn't bring the oil it was ours and she kinda hinted she could use a massage (according to her).
> 
> Anyway, I went and bought a pen video camera. They come in HD these days... sigh. Will see if something is going on in the coming days.



OHHHHHH...so it was your WIFE'S idea to have this woman in your bed with her, sitting on top of her (at least) half naked body... Well, that makes it ok then!



CouldItBeSo said:


> So I guess you would not let your wife go into a swimming hall? As usually people shower after swimming and other women would see her naked. Which is totally ok. But not if there was men mixed in there don't you think.
> 
> I assume if I start telling lesbian stories about the PT my wife will get a clue I'm onto them if she has something to hide. Besides telling that would be lying which I won't do.


Weird...if I go swimming anywhere, I shower with the swimsuit on...same for my kids and husband. OR, we shower at home...


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> *I can't really tell her not to have friends though. That would be too controlling.* I think it's healthy to have some friend time too in a marriage. Of course not if it becomes too friendly. If I say something she surely becomes aware and go underground if there's something to hide. I'm going to see what the cam shows.


Oh for the love of Pete! If someone isn't a friend to the MARRIAGE, then you absolutely can request the friendship to end. You're not telling her she can't have ANY friends...you would only be saying "not THIS friend".


----------



## Entropy3000

Maricha75 said:


> *Oh for the love of Pete!* If someone isn't a friend to the MARRIAGE, then you absolutely can request the friendship to end. You're not telling her she can't have ANY friends...you would only be saying "not THIS friend".


:rofl:


----------



## 3putt

Entropy3000 said:


> :rofl:


You know, this would be epically hilarious if his real name _was_ Pete.



Maricha75 said:


> Oh for the love of Pete! If someone isn't a friend to the MARRIAGE, then you absolutely can request the friendship to end. You're not telling her she can't have ANY friends...you would only be saying "not THIS friend".


----------



## Acabado

No More Mr Nice Guy


----------



## Maricha75

3putt said:


> You know, this would be epically hilarious if his real name _was_ Pete.


My dog's name is Pete....


----------



## 3putt

Maricha75 said:


> My dog's name is Pete....


:rofl:


----------



## happyman64

CouldItBeSo

Just check the video. Take a peak at her texts.

If nothing is going on then continue to monitor them.

And sooner rather than later have a conversation about boundaries with your wife.

HM64


----------



## Chaparral

Having only a towel covering your naked ass is not partially clothed. Why did her butt need to be bare under the towel. Why did she look like she was turned on. Hello!


----------



## RClawson

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes I realise that but you must admit it is more accepted for two women to show intimacy. I don't think she thought about it since when I saw them I came home early. *So she probably didn't expect me home that time. So do you think getting a massage is a sexual act?*


Please tell me that this is not a serious question.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> So do you think getting a massage is a sexual act?


It is when I give them. Sans towel though.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You're seriously paying another man to rub his hands on your naked wife in your bed while you're not home? Wow, wonders never cease.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

WorkingOnMe said:


> You're seriously paying another man to rub his hands on your naked wife in your bed while you're not home? Wow, wonders never cease.


The PT is a woman.


----------



## Entropy3000

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> The PT is a woman.


And the wife is paying ....


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Ok, a quick update:

I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit?

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, a quick update:
> 
> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


What about suggesting that she only recieves massages from licensed, qualified providers? Does this 'student' have malpractice insurance should the massage cause an injury? Any angle you can find to stop this quick may be worth bringing-up.


----------



## DavidWYoung

You do not have a marriage.

You are her nerd. 

The trainer is the Star Quarterback of the Football team.

This is not going to end well, unless you listen to these people, go to Walmart and buy some balls and end this one way or another.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, a quick update:
> 
> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


So instead of your house, she's going to PT's house?:scratchhead:
Shouldn't you be telling your wife you're not comfortable with her seeing her PT period?
I guess the good thing is you can't video the PT's house, since you're so concerned about controlling and snooping on her..


----------



## cantthinkstraight

13 pages later and you're still not being tough enough.....

*NOT GOOD!*


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


 She knew what you were saying and she told you to take your concerns and shove it, and you said yes dear. Either you talk to her right now and tell her no way, or you accept that you will be losing your wife. The choice is yours.


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, a quick update:
> 
> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


So she is still going to have massages half naked,but now it will now go from bed to massage table(who knows if PT even has massage table it could go to PT's bed).Now she gets to go and be half naked at PT's place where you can't disrupt or catch them.

You should have waited and used VAR/pen camera that you bought.Use VAR/pen for their normal training and see what it records(or has she decided to do that at PT's place too?).


----------



## weightlifter

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, a quick update:
> 
> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


FACEPALM. Is this a troll?

Congratulations you now will never get the proof of them being inappropriate.

Your life is now a Maroon 5 song. Instead of picking Wake Up Call you picked Wont Go Home Without You.


----------



## InlandTXMM

You are new to this infidelity thing, but man, don't come here for advice by these weathered veterans and then blow up your own ability to remain in control of the situation. It's almost like you actually WANTED her to just go underground so you wouldn't actually have to man up and confront the situation.

The disrespect from your wife has me all riled up in righteous indignation. If I feel it, why don't you?

The only solution now is to fire the PT. It's your wife, it's your house. I assume if she can lie around all day getting rubbed down by this chick that it's also your money being used.

Fire the PT and tell the wife no more contact with her. 

And then head immediately for some MC. I think you have a bisexual (with a penchant for extracurricular activites) on your hands, and that now means you will have twice as many people to keep an eye on.

Every guy wishes his wife were somewhat into women. Until.

So sorry you are here.


----------



## highwood

Honestly if I was your wife and had no lesbian tendancies than I would be doing anything in my power to maintain a totally professional relationship with the trainer which would include, surprise surprise :scratchhead: no massages. 

The fact that your wife is so into the trainer that they are saying too bad we were interrupted while doing a massage is not a good sign....and as for the xoxo thing this is supposedly a professional relationship what is up with that.


----------



## Toffer

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, a quick update:
> 
> I talked with my wife today and basically I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed. She agreed and told me that she is going to have the next one at her place (the PT) on a proper massage table. Right.


*Sorry CouldItBe but you really screwed the pooch with this one.

Why oh why did you have this conversation when EVERYONE told you to investigate and get evidence first?*


----------



## highwood

Toffer said:


> *Sorry CouldItBe but you really screwed the pooch with this one.
> 
> Why oh why did you have this conversation when EVERYONE told you to investigate and get evidence first?*


Probably because he does not really want to know..because he is thinking well it is just another woman. If it was a man he would not be so passive. I guess infidelity is okay as long as it is with someone of the same sex:scratchhead:


----------



## LoriC

weightlifter said:


> FACEPALM. Is this a troll?
> 
> Congratulations you now will never get the proof of them being inappropriate.
> 
> Your life is now a Maroon 5 song. Instead of picking Wake Up Call you picked Wont Go Home Without You.


Good one!

Maybe OP is kind of getting off on the idea of his wife getting it from another woman! He just doesn't seem to bothered by this at all.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

There are so many posts with differing opinions I can't answer everyone.

I don't think she suspects anything from our talk. I didn't mention anything about affairs or infidelity. She didn't exactly use those words in my post but mentioned that since we don't have a massage table and the PT has one, she could go there for her next massage if she needs one. She really took it that I'm not comfortable having anyone else in our bed other than her.

Some people here suggested to have the chat about the massage so not everyone were against it. I have no idea who are the veterans here and who are not.


----------



## highwood

The issue is not so much the massage but the fact that your wife could be engaging in some kind of a lesbian affair...same sex or not that would still be considered infidelity at least in my books it would.

I still maintain that if the PT was a man you would be more upset by this.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

highwood said:


> Probably because he does not really want to know..because he is thinking well it is just another woman. If it was a man he would not be so passive. I guess infidelity is okay as long as it is with someone of the same sex:scratchhead:





LoriC said:


> Good one!
> 
> Maybe OP is kind of getting off on the idea of his wife getting it from another woman! He just doesn't seem to bothered by this at all.


Trust me this is not the case. I am very bothered by this, I wouldn't be posting here otherwise. Infidelity is never okay and in this case since it's a woman, it's worse because I can't even compete with her like I could with another man.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

highwood said:


> The issue is not so much the massage but the fact that your wife could be engaging in some kind of a lesbian affair...same sex or not that would still be considered infidelity at least in my books it would.
> 
> *I still maintain that if the PT was a man you would be more upset by this*.


Yes, I agree. I guess it's a male double standard. Though I have to consider that she could be just her good friend because she's a woman. If it was a man it would be easy to end it.


----------



## weightlifter

I must be a glutton for punishment.

1) OP Are you OK with your wife having intimate contact with another woman as in lesbian stuff? IF so... Carry on as that is what you are doing.
2) Do you realize that hard core lesbian sex is MORE likely at HER PLACE???

Here is your plan.
1. Demand your wife never ever see this woman again even talk to her.
2. Since you are going to ignore #1 above. Tell your wife you are even more uncomfortable with it going on at her house. Set up cameras. Then watch your wife having lesbian encounters. Perhaps this will get you to go back to man up and do #1. There are 2 people in a marriage not 3.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

When you are having trouble hitting the target, you usually don't move further away from it...


----------



## Thor

CIBS, here's the one instruction you need to heed. STFU. Seriously, act calm and normal. Say nothing to your wife about this trainer or the massage or lesbians or anything.

If she is cheating or if she has a crush on this PT, she will assume you are suspicious. She will read it into anything you say.

I, like you and a million others, asked or accused or confronted before having hard proof. I, like you, gave my wife all the notice she needed to erase the proof (900 emails) and get rid of any other evidence.

If you are going to nuke a budding affair you do it by saying you know what is going on and it is not acceptable. You set strict limits and boundaries with hard HARD consequences. You can do this without proof but your situation is not one of these budding EA affairs.

If there is an EA/PA in full bloom you can not kill it without having iron clad proof. The cheater is in The Fog and will deny and will rationalize. And they will go underground and they will gaslight.

So at this point you need hard proof. At which time you either D your wife or use it to attempt to shock her into working hard at a real reconciliation.


----------



## Chaparral

Can anyone link to the thread where the husbands wife has been getting "massages" from her married neighbor girlfriend. I think I saw a recent post but cannot find it.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I'm going to take a guess and say I'm not the only one here guilty of saying something before gathering enough evidence. We are all humans and don't necessarily think clearly when we are concerned.


----------



## JMGrey

CouldItBeSo said:


> There are so many posts with differing opinions I can't answer everyone.
> 
> I don't think she suspects anything from our talk. I didn't mention anything about affairs or infidelity. She didn't exactly use those words in my post but mentioned that since we don't have a massage table and the PT has one, she could go there for her next massage if she needs one. She really took it that I'm not comfortable having anyone else in our bed other than her.
> 
> Some people here suggested to have the chat about the massage so not everyone were against it. I have no idea who are the veterans here and who are not.


Are you purposely being obtuse, or are you a troll after all? You told your wife:



CouldItBeSo said:


> I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her having massages half naked in our bed.


Now, logically you have informed your wife that you consider the behavior inappropriate and that the nudity is a factor. In what other inappropriate behavior lacking clothing can one engage other than misconduct of a sexual nature? You've tacitly told your wife that you're concerned about infidelity even if you haven't overtly accused her of an affair.


----------



## JMGrey

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes, I agree. I guess it's a male double standard. Though I have to consider that she could be just her good friend because she's a woman. If it was a man it would be easy to end it.


The sex of the AP is irrelevant. Would you lackadaisically engage an enemy general simply because your opponent had no penis? She doesn't need one to try and take what's yours.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> There are so many posts with differing opinions I can't answer everyone.
> 
> I don't think she suspects anything from our talk. I didn't mention anything about affairs or infidelity. She didn't exactly use those words in my post but mentioned that since we don't have a massage table and the PT has one, she could go there for her next massage if she needs one. She really took it that I'm not comfortable having anyone else in our bed other than her.
> 
> Some people here suggested to have the chat about the massage so not everyone were against it. I have no idea who are the veterans here and who are not.


OF COURSE she suspects you are suspicious. It's just that right now, she doesn't respect you enough to worry about it. She doesn't think there will be any repurcussions. And why not? YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS and let them finish. Like a good boy. And then PAID the PT. Your wife sees weakness, and that is not sexy, nor is it worthy of her respect.

It amazes me how men feel it's okay to just, sort of, hint or ask their wives to be faithful.

I do not write this to be hurtful - it is meant as a loving wake-up call to fellow male traveler.


----------



## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> I'm going to take a guess and say I'm not the only one here guilty of saying something before gathering enough evidence. We are all humans and don't necessarily think clearly when we are concerned.


That my friend is an understatement around here.

Just be quiet. Listen to her about the PT. Watch her activity with the PT.

And demand that she give you quality time.

*After all you are her husband and she married you!*


----------



## Acabado

She can know justify her being at OW's place with the scapegoat of massages. Just made your - obvious needed - snooping way hard by providing her an easier way to go underground.
It was way easier to plan a VAR at home.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes, I agree. I guess it's a male double standard. Though I have to consider that she could be just her good friend because she's a woman. If it was a man it would be easy to end it.


Ummm... I don't know ANY women who get naked (ok, half naked ) and let their "good friends" massage them, while sitting/resting/whatever on top of them, on a bed.

And you just screwed yourself by giving her a heads up about the massages and your feelings about them. Well done!

You said you don't know who is a veteran on here? Here's a clue... you joined this month? Assume those who ahve been here at LEAST 6 months more than you are veterans of TAM. Not saying the newer ones are full of bad advice, but you said you can't tell who is a veteran or not.


----------



## Maricha75

Acabado said:


> She can know justify her being at OW's place with the scapegoat of massages. Just made your - obvious needed - snooping way hard by providing her an easier way to go underground.
> It was way easier to plan a VAR at home.


And as long as the massages are being done there, no need to train at home either...Like I said....


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Yeah, it's probably my fault if she is cheating. NOw she even got an excuse to cheat! :scratchhead:


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I'm going to take a guess and say I'm not the only one here guilty of saying something before gathering enough evidence. We are all humans and don't necessarily think clearly when we are concerned.


 What you did was confront without clearly stating full no contact and without there being firm consequences that you were willing to act on. No one suggested that. There are two legitimate strategies. Both have their pros and cons. Whichever one that you pick you need to be willing to take action once you confront. They are:

1) One is to confront with what you already know and demand full no contact, telling her that you are not going to take a chance with your marraige by waiting around for her to perhaps cross the line of no return. You tell her that you being uncomfortable should be enough for her to honor your request since you have so rarely used this card in the past. You must be the type of person that is willing to take firm action if she does not comply based solely on your conviction that as her spouse you have a right to demand that she put you before all others; if she is willing to end your marraige based on not giving up this other woman, then that alone is a strong indication that your concerns were justified. If she honors your request and goes no contact, you must be willing to endure the anger that will be directed toward you by her. If she refuses, your firm action will perhaps will take some of the fantasy fun out of her relationship with the other woman. The pro of confronting now is that you could end it before it goes so far that you cannot get her back; also, why wait for her to actually have a physical sexual relationship before you put a stop to it? The con is that you will not have the hard evidence that some need to take strong action.

2) The other option is that you say nothing as you gather irrefutable evidence. The pro with this option is that although she may still deny and lie, you will have the irrefutable evidence that many need to take firm action if she does not comply with full no contact. The con here is that by waiting you will allow the relationship to progress further both physically and mentally than it might have had you acted sooner and perhaps by then she will not pick you and your marraige when finally confronted; additionally by letting it progress, she may have gone so far that you do not even want her back.

Since you have already confronted and she will now be taking it underground at the other woman's home, option number two many not be viable anymore. I say act now and go full option one.


----------



## Racer

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yeah, it's probably my fault if she is cheating. NOw she even got an excuse to cheat! :scratchhead:


No is saying that... You've just made it much, much harder to find whatever it is you need to determine how bad it is. You basically blocked yourself from being able to gather information. You could have planted VAR's, you could of set up a cam, you could have just showed up early, and now? Whatever is going on in that other place isn't somewhere you can setup... You'll just be able to sit outside and guess at what is going on in there. It complicates the information gathering and discovery process.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I am of the belief that IF you wish to save the marriage, you confront, c*ck-block, nuke the whole thing far and wide. As fast as you can. As aggressively as you can. 

During the Civil War, General Sherman was quoted as saying, after strong criticism of his "slash and burn" tactics: "War is hell. And the more hellish you make it on the enemy, the sooner it's over." Logic: the more intense and early the action, the quicker the ending.

This is a war for your marriage. The OM / OW is the ENEMY. Declare war, and rain down hell on this thing.

The only thing that waiting does is:

1) Lets you gather intel if you've already decided to divorce, or 
2) Allows the enemy to further entrench in your spouse's mind, heart, and nether regions. You allow the fog to grow dense. You allow addiction to fester and spread. You allow rationalization to take over her thought process. You, in essence, stood idly by when it was only a spark and a small flame, and by inaction, let it grow into a forest fire.

Don't feel too badly- marriages don't come with a troubleshooting manual. Just know you've painted yourself into a corner. The only thing left to do is a pre-emptive strike. Fire the PT and insist on no contact. And back it up with transparency and verification.


----------



## bfree

What's done is done. Right now I would tell her to find another PT as you are uncomfortable with the relationship she has with this one. If she says she's a friend tell her because of the inappropriate relationship they have she's not a friend of the marriage and has to go. Then use some of the surveillance techniques others have suggested to monitor her and gather evidence if needed. Take a stand, your marriage is at stake.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Allright I got some video material from the training room. Odd thing is they come in about 15 mins before I arrived home and start doing some work out. They should be normally start 1 hour before I'm home as far as I know. Other than that nothing unusual. VAR in the bedroom didn't pick up anything. I don't really know what to make out of this. I can't ask her why they came later without revealing myself.


----------



## mahike

Well your wife may think you are on to her and she is laying low or taking this thing out of the house. You may need to give it some time know.

Do you have a VAR in the car or a GPS on her car.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Absolutely. Now you must turn into the CIA to catch her. GPS and VAR the car, for sure.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> Allright I got some video material from the training room. Odd thing is they come in about 15 mins before I arrived home and start doing some work out. They should be normally start 1 hour before I'm home as far as I know. Other than that nothing unusual. VAR in the bedroom didn't pick up anything. I don't really know what to make out of this. I can't ask her why they came later without revealing myself.


Maybe the PT is a PT, a massage therapist and a GYN.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

mahike said:


> Well your wife may think you are on to her and she is laying low or taking this thing out of the house. You may need to give it some time know.
> 
> Do you have a VAR in the car or a GPS on her car.





InlandTXMM said:


> Absolutely. Now you must turn into the CIA to catch her. GPS and VAR the car, for sure.


Well, you don't believe this. I said she's sports crazy. She goes to work and about everywhere with her bicycle.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe the PT is a PT, a massage therapist and a GYN.


She is actually a physiotherapist, which is not exactly the same as a masseuse?


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> She is actually a physiotherapist, which is not exactly the same as a masseuse?


What country are you in?

These names get thrown about. May or may not have meaning in context.


----------



## Machiavelli

cantthinkstraight said:


> 13 pages later and you're still not being tough enough.....
> 
> *NOT GOOD!*


The PT has more testosterone and probably a better V torso.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> What country are you in?
> 
> These names get thrown about. May or may not have meaning in context.


As far as I know a physiotherapist also does some rehabilitation work for muscles/joints etc.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> As far as I know a physiotherapist also does some rehabilitation work for muscles/joints etc.


Your wife didn't need to be naked, oiled up, and IN BED, for this PT to work on a sore shoulder.

And I never texted my chiropractor "XOXO", "next time I hope we're not interrupted".

WAKE UP, BROTHER. Fire this woman and get your woman into MC. You have to know if you are dealing with a bisexual or not. There will be no monogamy if she is. You simply cannot give her everything she needs.


----------



## Maricha75

InlandTXMM said:


> Your wife didn't need to be naked, oiled up, and IN BED, for this PT to work on a sore shoulder.
> 
> And I never texted my chiropractor "XOXO", "next time I hope we're not interrupted".
> 
> WAKE UP, BROTHER. Fire this woman and get your woman into MC.* You have to know if you are dealing with a bisexual or not. There will be no monogamy if she is. You simply cannot give her everything she needs.*



I "liked" your post, but disagree with the above in bold. Yes, he needs to know what's going on. Yes, he needs to know if she is bisexual. However, just like anyone else who is in a relationship/married, you can't say there's no way she can be monogamous if she's bisexual. THAT is not what would prevent her from being monogamous.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Maricha75 said:


> I "liked" your post, but disagree with the above in bold. Yes, he needs to know what's going on. Yes, he needs to know if she is bisexual. However, just like anyone else who is in a relationship/married, you can't say there's no way she can be monogamous if she's bisexual. THAT is not what would prevent her from being monogamous.


I am sure there are exceptions, but I've never seen a practicing bisexual who is content in a closed, monogamous relationship. How could they be satisfied?

Sadly, this guy is going to find out, through his wife's coming revelation of her newly discovered self, and then quickly followed by an ultimatum, that he has to accept an open marriage or divorce.

I would love to be wrong. I've known three married women who claimed to be bi. All are now divorced and living with women. AFTER convincing their husbands it was just a once-in-a-while thing.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> She is actually a physiotherapist, which is not exactly the same as a masseuse?


 You missed the point of Entropy3000 post; he said "Maybe the PT is a PT, a massage therapist and a GYN" with GYN being the real punch line. Read it again with that in mind.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

TRy said:


> You missed the point of Entropy3000 post; he said "Maybe the PT is a PT, a massage therapist and a GYN" with GYN being the real punch line. Read it again with that in mind.


She is not a gynecologist. Even is she were, gynecologists do not perform sexual acts on their clients. Nice TRy though (no pun intended).


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> She is not a gynecologist. Even is she were, gynecologists do not perform sexual acts on their clients.


 No one for a minute believed that she was a GYN. The punch line was that this is what your wife would claim when you caught the other woman down there on your wife.:banghead:


----------



## Trickster

Could it Be--


OK I will be the only one here to say this...

You wife is NOT cheating.....

I am an orthopedic massage therapist (rehab specialist) It may seem unusual for the therapist to work on your wife on the bed. I sometimes work on friends when they come over. I always have a table near, but if I just work on them a few minutes, I don't want to get my table out. Usually though My wife is in the same room.

Also, many Female clients of mine text me after the massage to say they feel great and I have magic fingers.

IMHO...EVERYBODY is overreacting.

As for my therapy, clients keep all their clothes on. I get on the table many times and twist their body in many positions..especially, if they have groin pain... I Get So So close to their You know what!

The ONLY part that seem odd is that they are friends. There is that fine line when the therapist becomes a friend.


Trust your wife, Could it Be.

If you are wrong on this and she finds out what you are doing, it may not turn out well.

Drop it for a while...

I do know many PT and MT who have flings with their clients. I see that a lot.... I don't think this is the case with your wife.

If my wife saw me with some of my clients not knowing the techniques I use, she would freak.


Oh by the way....May women have been turned on by my massage. I notice a wet spot on their pants between their legs... After all, I am just millameter4s away from their V. That doesn't mean they want to have sex. Even men get erections during massage because it feel great. It definitely doesn't mean they are gay. They are just very embarrassed.


Geez people


----------



## CouldItBeSo

TRy said:


> No one for a minute believed that she was a GYN. The punch line was that this is what your wife would claim when you caught the other woman down there on your wife.:banghead:


And my post was something called sarcasm. I can appreciate humor posts but I don't feel like addressing every one of them since my situation is anything but humoring to me.


----------



## bfree

Trickster said:


> Could it Be--
> 
> 
> OK I will be the only one here to say this...
> 
> You wife is NOT cheating.....
> 
> I am an orthopedic massage therapist (rehab specialist) It may seem unusual for the therapist to work on your wife on the bed. I sometimes work on friends when they come over. I always have a table near, but if I just work on them a few minutes, I don't want to get my table out. Usually though My wife is in the same room.
> 
> Also, many Female clients of mine text me after the massage to say they feel great and I have magic fingers.
> 
> IMHO...EVERYBODY is overreacting.
> 
> As for my therapy, clients keep all their clothes on. I get on the table many times and twist their body in many positions..especially, if they have groin pain... I Get So So close to their You know what!
> 
> The ONLY part that seem odd is that they are friends. There is that fine line when the therapist becomes a friend.
> 
> 
> Trust your wife, Could it Be.
> 
> If you are wrong on this and she finds out what you are doing, it may not turn out well.
> 
> Drop it for a while...
> 
> I do know many PT and MT who have flings with their clients. I see that a lot.... I don't think this is the case with your wife.
> 
> If my wife saw me with some of my clients not knowing the techniques I use, she would freak.
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....May women have been turned on by my massage. I notice a wet spot on their pants between their legs... After all, I am just millameter4s away from their V. That doesn't mean they want to have sex. Even men get erections during massage because it feel great. It definitely doesn't mean they are gay. They are just very embarrassed.
> 
> 
> Geez people


How do you explain the text?


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> Allright I got some video material from the training room. Odd thing is they come in about 15 mins before I arrived home and start doing some work out. They should be normally start 1 hour before I'm home as far as I know. Other than that nothing unusual. VAR in the bedroom didn't pick up anything. I don't really know what to make out of this. I can't ask her why they came later without revealing myself.


Could have been running or doing cardio which would easily explain that (no sexual reference intended... well okay just take it whatever way you want) anyway I doubt any PT stays in the gym a good PT will have your wife running, lunging, doing aerobic stuff and your exercise room just may not be big enough. Ask the neighbors if they see your wife outside looking like a recruit from full metal jacket? If no one sees them outside and they aren't in the workout room then maybe move the camera's to a different room. Instead of the work out room put one in your bedroom, or any other private rooms.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> Could it Be--
> 
> 
> OK I will be the only one here to say this...
> 
> You wife is NOT cheating.....
> 
> I am an orthopedic massage therapist (rehab specialist) It may seem unusual for the therapist to work on your wife on the bed. I sometimes work on friends when they come over. I always have a table near, but if I just work on them a few minutes, I don't want to get my table out. Usually though My wife is in the same room.
> 
> Also, many Female clients of mine text me after the massage to say they feel great and I have magic fingers.
> 
> IMHO...EVERYBODY is overreacting.
> 
> As for my therapy, clients keep all their clothes on. I get on the table many times and twist their body in many positions..especially, if they have groin pain... I Get So So close to their You know what!
> 
> The ONLY part that seem odd is that they are friends. There is that fine line when the therapist becomes a friend.
> 
> 
> Trust your wife, Could it Be.
> 
> If you are wrong on this and she finds out what you are doing, it may not turn out well.
> 
> Drop it for a while...
> 
> I do know many PT and MT who have flings with their clients. I see that a lot.... I don't think this is the case with your wife.
> 
> If my wife saw me with some of my clients not knowing the techniques I use, she would freak.
> 
> 
> Oh by the way....May women have been turned on by my massage. I notice a wet spot on their pants between their legs... After all, I am just millameter4s away from their V. That doesn't mean they want to have sex. Even men get erections during massage because it feel great. It definitely doesn't mean they are gay. They are just very embarrassed.
> 
> 
> Geez people


SORRY, there is NOTHING you need to be doing a mm away from my wife's V. If I ever saw something like that, you'd likely face a formal complaint. Most certainly you would never lay hands on my wife again.


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> SORRY, there is NOTHING you need to be doing a mm away from my wife's V. If I ever saw something like that, you'd likely face a formal complaint. Most certainly you would never lay hands on my wife again.



Groin Pain / Strain - A Chiropractors view (UK) - YouTube

Nobody gets naked on my table... I work on many athletes men and women both. I even work on children as young as 12 with groin pulls and I help them. ( the mom is usually right there a few feet away)

There are legitimate reason to work high up on the inner thighs.


That's beside the point for this thread. Ya'll are jumping to conclusions on this one. 

Yes, there may be a chance the Op's wife is cheating. I don't believe she is.


----------



## Trickster

bfree said:


> How do you explain the text?



I got to go back to remember what the text was. Wasn't it about her magic fingers or something?


----------



## Trickster

CoulditBeSo---


Honestly, do you really believe you wife is cheating with her PT? Think about it.

You said you wife writes XOXOXO to all of her friends. Most massage therapist/Personal trainers are very friendly loving caring people. We are also touchy feely. Some of my female clients even text me XOXO sometimes. Doesn't mean ANYTHING.

Don't make yourself crazy here. Maybe your wife just has a good friend and that's all it is here. That's why you won't find out anything with VAR.

I do make house calls sometimes...One client told me her neighbors are talking about me and she was cheating on her BF with me... It may have looked that way. Never never never never. Now she is pregnant and her bf may be here on TAM any ya'll are probably telling him to dump the $lut. It's his baby and because of neighbors, they may have problems.


----------



## InlandTXMM

A professional would do everything he or she could to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

I don't even meet with female clients with the door closed.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Okay, let's assume this new theory that the PT is on the up and up, and it just so happens to make the wife aroused.

The husband has said he is uncomfortable. With them in the bed, with the oiled up body, with the texts. Wife says she will then start meeting the PT at the PT's private residence. 

Tell me, do you meet clients in the privacy of your own home for oiled-up rub-downs? And if you know your clients are becoming aroused and flirty with you, texting you 10-20 times a day, leaving XOXO with you, do you not have a professional obligation (or at least enough business sense), to stop seeing this client? Or at least, making sure you are doing everything you can to protect yourself against an allegation?


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> A professional would do everything he or she could to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
> 
> I don't even meet with female clients with the door closed.



My door is usually always open and my clients have clothes on. When I work on children, I tell the parents exactly what I am doing and why. If anybody feels uncomfortable, I will stop. Usually it me being the uncomfortable one.

I am a professional. That's why clients keep their clothes on. It is more medical with me. A more recent client is in her 80's and I had to work on her PSOAS and iliacus muscles...Pretty private there. That is legitimate.

As far as the PT in the OP...It may not of been the best thing to do. The OP's wife did have her clothes on though. at least the top. He just didn't know about under the towel. Nothing kinky was happening.


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> Okay, let's assume this new theory that the PT is on the up and up, and it just so happens to make the wife aroused.
> 
> The husband has said he is uncomfortable. With them in the bed, with the oiled up body, with the texts. Wife says she will then start meeting the PT at the PT's private residence.
> 
> Tell me, do you meet clients in the privacy of your own home for oiled-up rub-downs? And if you know your clients are becoming aroused and flirty with you, texting you 10-20 times a day, leaving XOXO with you, do you not have a professional obligation (or at least enough business sense), to stop seeing this client? Or at least, making sure you are doing everything you can to protect yourself against an allegation?



I'll give you that.

The moment it become a friendship, the massages should be over and his wife needs a new PT. I agree. The Op's wife should respect that if He made it clear he was uncomfortable and he wants her to stop. I will give you that.

I didn't read where she was texting 20 times a day.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> CoulditBeSo---
> 
> 
> Honestly, do you really believe you wife is cheating with her PT? Think about it.
> 
> You said you wife writes XOXOXO to all of her friends. Most massage therapist/Personal trainers are very friendly loving caring people. We are also touchy feely. Some of my female clients even text me XOXO sometimes. Doesn't mean ANYTHING.
> 
> Don't make yourself crazy here. Maybe your wife just has a good friend and that's all it is here. That's why you won't find out anything with VAR.
> 
> I do make house calls sometimes...One client told me her neighbors are talking about me and she was cheating on her BF with me... It may have looked that way. Never never never never. Now she is pregnant and her bf may be here on TAM any ya'll are probably telling him to dump the $lut. It's his baby and because of neighbors, they may have problems.


What was your reaction as a professional to the woman's comment about her neighbors thinking something was going on? How in the world did you get so close to this woman that you are talking about who the father of her baby is or isn't?

And while it may be neighbors who alerted the bf, it was YOU and the woman who caused any relationship problems. Not neighbors who had the decency to let the guy know some dude is always over while he is out.


----------



## Trickster

Most massage therapist use oil. I never use oil. 

Was she really aroused?


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> My door is usually always open and my clients have clothes on. When I work on children, I tell the parents exactly what I am doing and why. If anybody feels uncomfortable, I will stop. Usually it me being the uncomfortable one.
> 
> I am a professional. That's why clients keep their clothes on.
> 
> As far as the PT in the OP...It may not of been the best thing to do. The OP's wife did have her clothes on though. at least the top. He just didn't know about under the towel. Nothing kinky was happening.


No, Op said the wife was NUDE on top and only had a towel on her bottom half. This was not professional in any way. This was foreplay.


----------



## Acabado

InlandTXMM said:


> I am sure there are exceptions, but I've never seen a practicing bisexual who is content in a closed, monogamous relationship. How could they be satisfied?


I've seen plenty of them. I should say with bisexual female women. As a mater of fact an aquitance just got caught after a ONS with a male.
Being bisexual doesn't mean you have two set of sexual/emotional needs to be met and you will be unfultilled if you are not carrying simultaneously straight and same sex relationships. It's faulty thinking.
They case you are talking about it's probably becasue they were simply closet lesbians to beging with of the decide to divorce after meeting their "soulmates" who happend to be females.


----------



## TRy

Trickster said:


> Usually though My wife is in the same room.


 This is a big difference. They did not want the OP in the same room and made him go downstairs. One reason why the OP is legitimately concerned. 



Trickster said:


> As for my therapy, clients keep all their clothes on.


 This is another important difference. The OP's wife was topless and naked under a towel. Another reason why the OP is legitimately concerned. 



Trickster said:


> I do know many PT and MT who have flings with their clients. I see that a lot.


 Yet a third reason why the OP is legitimately concerned. 



Trickster said:


> Oh by the way....May women have been turned on by my massage. I notice a wet spot on their pants between their legs... After all, I am just millameter4s away from their V.


 If you ever got so close to my wife'd V that she got wet, I would never let you touch her again and would have to maintain a great deal of self control not to get physical with you. This is the best reason why the OP should ignore your suggestion that he should not be concerned.


----------



## Maricha75

TRy said:


> If you ever got so close to my wife'd V that she got wet, I would never let you touch her again and would have to maintain a great deal of self control not to get physical with you. This is the best reason why the OP should ignore your suggestion that he should not be concerned.


Yea...my husband gets therapy for his back and pelvis right now. With all the stuff the therapist has to do to him, manipulating the muscles, etc, he does NOT get turned on by any stretch of the imagination. And when I had therapists working with my hip, they had NO reason to get their faces down in there... NONE. Nor did I ever get turned on. As a matter of fact, any massaging I got by them never turned me on, and they were good at it...very good. The ONLY one who has ever turned me on with massage is my husband. And I agree, TRy, if anyone ewver gave me a massage that got me wet... that person, male or female, would have been picking him/herself up off the floor...cuz my husband would have decked them. And if that happened to my husband? Same thing.


----------



## BrockLanders

Lots of tough guys in this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> What was your reaction as a professional to the woman's comment about her neighbors thinking something was going on? How in the world did you get so close to this woman that you are talking about who the father of her baby is or isn't?
> 
> And while it may be neighbors who alerted the bf, it was YOU and the woman who caused any relationship problems. Not neighbors who had the decency to let the guy know some dude is always over while he is out.



I just made house calls there. That's what I do. Neighbors just wondered who this man (me) was. I don't go there anymore and she doesn't come to see me.

I know where you all are coming from. Why should a massage cause a relationship problem. That's all it was.

The difference in what I do is that clients keep there clothes on. Most ALL therapist don't do massage that way.


----------



## Trickster

Maricha75 said:


> Yea...my husband gets therapy for his back and pelvis right now. With all the stuff the therapist has to do to him, manipulating the muscles, etc, he does NOT get turned on by any stretch of the imagination. And when I had therapists working with my hip, they had NO reason to get their faces down in there... NONE. Nor did I ever get turned on. As a matter of fact, any massaging I got by them never turned me on, and they were good at it...very good. The ONLY one who has ever turned me on with massage is my husband. And I agree, TRy, if anyone ewver gave me a massage that got me wet... that person, male or female, would have been picking him/herself up off the floor...cuz my husband would have decked them. And if that happened to my husband? Same thing.


I don't think anybody gets turned on by my massages. I just look back over 12 years in business. Doesn't happen all that often. I can't be responsible if a man gets an erection on the table. It's their body.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> I don't think anybody gets turned on by my massages. I just look back over 12 years in business. Doesn't happen all that often. I can't be responsible if a man gets an erection on the table. It's their body.


Dude your original argument included how often you noticed women wet between the legs, soaking through their pants, and the men were all erect. Just a few posts up from this one you were QUOTED as saying it happens a lot.

Now you back-track and say you can't remember it ever happening?


----------



## InlandTXMM

BrockLanders said:


> Lots of tough guys in this thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not tough guys. Just good husbands.


----------



## Mtts

OP has to be a clumsy joke. Seriously, you confront, notice time lines that dont match (a 15min workout?) and you state your wife seemed to be turned on by a massage, massages now happening at this womans house. 

Seems to me you are looking for a reason to have her cheat or your posting is fake.


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> Dude your original argument included how often you noticed women wet between the legs, soaking through their pants, and the men were all erect. Just a few posts up from this one you were QUOTED as saying it happens a lot.
> 
> Now you back-track and say you can't remember it ever happening?


I never said men were all erect, and I never said women were often wet. I said It happens sometimes. Maybe just a slight exaggeration. 

I don't want to get off topic here...Sorry. 

The OP said that his wife seemed turned on. It doesn't mean anything. That all I was getting at.


----------



## TRy

Trickster said:


> I never said men were all erect, and I never said women were often wet. I said It happens sometimes. Maybe just a slight exaggeration.
> 
> I don't want to get off topic here...Sorry.
> 
> The OP said that his wife seemed turned on. It doesn't mean anything. That all I was getting at.


 You said that many women have been turned on by your massages, and that you saw wet spots between their legs. Now you say you exaggerated, but still insist that it was no big deal that the OP's wife was turned on. Sorry but you have lost creditability here, and it is a big deal for the numerous reasons (nude, husband not welcome, many texts every day, inappropriate text message, etc.) already stated many times.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> Could have been running or doing cardio which would easily explain that (no sexual reference intended... well okay just take it whatever way you want) anyway I doubt any PT stays in the gym a good PT will have your wife running, lunging, doing aerobic stuff and your exercise room just may not be big enough. Ask the neighbors if they see your wife outside looking like a recruit from full metal jacket? If no one sees them outside and they aren't in the workout room then maybe move the camera's to a different room. Instead of the work out room put one in your bedroom, or any other private rooms.


Yes that's possible which leaves me with no definite proof unless the cam/var catches something. I'm thinking something I could ask without revealing myself to see if I catch her lying about it.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster said:


> CoulditBeSo---
> 
> 
> Honestly, do you really believe you wife is cheating with her PT? Think about it.
> 
> You said you wife writes XOXOXO to all of her friends. Most massage therapist/Personal trainers are very friendly loving caring people. We are also touchy feely. Some of my female clients even text me XOXO sometimes. Doesn't mean ANYTHING.
> 
> Don't make yourself crazy here. Maybe your wife just has a good friend and that's all it is here. That's why you won't find out anything with VAR.
> 
> I do make house calls sometimes...One client told me her neighbors are talking about me and she was cheating on her BF with me... It may have looked that way. Never never never never. Now she is pregnant and her bf may be here on TAM any ya'll are probably telling him to dump the $lut. It's his baby and because of neighbors, they may have problems.


It's the reason I decided to create this thread because I'm thinking about it. But there are lots of differing viewpoints and obviously it's not all black and white issue.



Trickster said:


> Most massage therapist use oil. I never use oil.
> 
> Was she really aroused?


I've known her about 10 years now and unless I've been totally reading her wrong all this time, I would say yes. Judging from the look in her eyes and her voice when she spoke. She was also blushing which she doesn't do that often. That could be though because she was embarassed or something.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> No, Op said the wife was NUDE on top and only had a towel on her bottom half. This was not professional in any way. This was foreplay.


She said she was heading for the shower originally but felt some strain on her shoulders/back. I don't know. It sounds it could be plausible.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



CouldItBeSo said:


> She said she was heading for the shower originally but felt some strain on her shoulders/back. I don't know. It sounds it could be plausible.


Gaslighting always sounds plausible.

So this was an _impromptu nude massage_? So _impromptu_ that they're going to take it to her place from now on. :scratchhead:


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes that's possible which leaves me with no definite proof unless the cam/var catches something. I'm thinking something I could ask without revealing myself to see if I catch her lying about it.


Don't ask her anything,just keep watching/listening to what cam/var records.If she doesn't think you are suspecting anything she will get caught eventually.If you reveal your suspicions she will go into extra careful mode to not get caught.


----------



## weightlifter

CIBS. OK you are legit...

YOU have now changed them back TO DOING IT AT YOUR HOUSE AND ARE GETTING THE CAMS RIGHT!?!?!!


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS, the bottom line is, this is entirely uncomfortable for you. My wife used the "he's just a friend" line on me. I said, "Not anymore. You can be his Friend or my Wife. Your choice." She deleted him from her world and we were able to R.

So let me ask, would your wife walk out on you over this "friendship"? I doubt it. So end this professional relationship.


----------



## Chaparral

weightlifter said:


> CIBS. OK you are not a troll...
> 
> YOU have now changed them back TO DOING IT AT YOUR HOUSE AND ARE GETTING THE CAMS RIGHT!?!?!!


Calling people a troll will get you banned.


----------



## Chaparral

If you need an explantion for letting the trainer go, tell her it was the look on her face as a hot barely dressed woman sat on top of her naked body and oiled her down.

Sorry to be so graphic.


----------



## Trickster

CoulditBe-

The whole short story with my client... She's been a client for 11 years now, She came to me after a cheerleading accident in H.S. I've seen her 1-2 times a week for ten years now. I,ve seen her graduate H.S I was there when she graduated college and now that she is working I was continuing to work on her . She fractured her vertabrae, torn her ACL and really messed up her SI joint. She needs therapy.

So the new bf came into her life and she is head over heels for him. I see her early in the morning around 7am and leave a little after 8am. So the neighbors see a man with a shaved head who gives her a hug and hops on a motorcycle. 

Then they see the bf walking her dogs and ask who this man is...

Now he doesn't want to get married until after the baby is born. He doesn't believe her that all this is is massage. I can understand how it looks. It's just a crazy situation.

Her mom and dad are clients of mine, as well as her brother and sister. Even her grandmother is a client. I consider them all a friend.

Trust you wife first. She may not be guilty. My client/friend's future is unknown now. When there was absolutely nothing going on.


----------



## Trickster

Another thing. Because I've seen her so often, I bought a massage table that she keeps at her house. Plus, it's hard to lug around a massage table on a motorcycle. 

I do go to her place out of convenience. I drive within a block of her place on my way to work. She goes in the opposite direction. If I didn't go to her, It would be so hard to see her.

Now there is the no contact thing and I referred her to another therapist. With her job, it doesn't fit her schedule. She was a "special" client I have several of them.

I have bought 3 massage tables that I keep at my clients home. That is easier for me.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> CIBS. OK you are not a troll...
> 
> YOU have now changed them back TO DOING IT AT YOUR HOUSE AND ARE GETTING THE CAMS RIGHT!?!?!!


I don't think I'm following where you're getting at. I've never said they would change the place where they are training, which is still in our spare room.

I mentioned about getting the cam two days ago in post #130, which is actually an answer to your post asking to get one. :scratchhead:


----------



## bfree

Trickster said:


> Another thing. Because I've seen her so often, I bought a massage table that she keeps at her house. Plus, it's hard to lug around a massage table on a motorcycle.
> 
> I do go to her place out of convenience. I drive within a block of her place on my way to work. She goes in the opposite direction. If I didn't go to her, It would be so hard to see her.
> 
> Now there is the no contact thing and I referred her to another therapist. With her job, it doesn't fit her schedule. She was a "special" client I have several of them.
> 
> I have bought 3 massage tables that I keep at my clients home. That is easier for me.


Friend the more you post the more I think you are the kind of PT that the OP should be concerned about.

"special client" indeed


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster: In your case, if you were a woman do you think the neighbors or the boyfriend thought anything of it? I don't think so. It's just how we are wired. The same reason why we (should) have female police officers doing strip searches on females etc. That is at least in civilized countries. Though the major difference with your client is that she needs the therapy because of an injury.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> CIBS, the bottom line is, this is entirely uncomfortable for you. My wife used the "he's just a friend" line on me. I said, "Not anymore. You can be his Friend or my Wife. Your choice." She deleted him from her world and we were able to R.
> 
> So let me ask, would your wife walk out on you over this "friendship"? I doubt it. So end this professional relationship.





chapparal said:


> If you need an explantion for letting the trainer go, tell her it was the look on her face as a hot barely dressed woman sat on top of her naked body and oiled her down.
> 
> Sorry to be so graphic.


I've been pondering this and there are several possible outcomes. She could end up resenting and hating me for the rest of our lives. I can't really answer if my wife would walk out on me even if they are just friends. There is that saying that goes something like: lovers come and go but real friends are forever. I've actually witnessed this happening a couple of times irl.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> She said she was heading for the shower originally but felt some strain on her shoulders/back. I don't know. It sounds it could be plausible.


I would expect the PT to leave and then for her to take a shower.

You know this is not appropriate. 

When they said they will meet over at the PTs place especially.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> She said she was heading for the shower originally but felt some strain on her shoulders/back. I don't know. It sounds it could be plausible.


What does your gut say? Mine was screaming, in spite of all the rational answers she gave, that something was wrong. My gut was a hell of a lot more honest than my wife was.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I've been pondering this and there are several possible outcomes. She could end up resenting and hating me for the rest of our lives.


 No matter if you are right or wrong about their relationship being more than just friends, she will resent you for ending it. Hate would only come if they were indeed not just friends. Either way, it will fade with time and not last for the rest of your lives. On the other hand, if you are right, you will regret for the rest of your life not ending it when you still could. The sad paradox of these situations is that the earlier that you end it, the better for your marriage long term but the more innocent she is having crossed less boundaries; the longer that you wait to end it, the worse for you marraige long term because she would have been more involved with the other person having crossed more boundaries. As they say in Argo the movie, ending it sooner is the "best bad option" for your marraige long term as the resentment will be there either way. Either because you stopped it before she felt too guilty or because you took the good feelings of being with her lover away from her. 



CouldItBeSo said:


> I can't really answer if my wife would walk out on me even if they are just friends. There is that saying that goes something like: lovers come and go but real friends are forever.


 The issue is that right now you may no longer be her lover.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I've been pondering this and there are several possible outcomes. She could end up resenting and hating me for the rest of our lives.
> 
> *LOL. Really? Not much of a marriage if she would resent you for this. That would speak volumes though. But this falls into the fear category. You fear your action will elicit a response that make you look jealous, insecure and controlling. Very common on this site when there is infidelity. I t paralizes many men.
> *
> I can't really answer if my wife would walk out on me even if they are just friends.
> 
> *Wow, what does that say? In fact that means she is less likely to value the marriage at all making the chance of infidelity even greater.
> *
> There is that saying that goes something like: lovers come and go but real friends are forever.
> 
> *LOL.  And sex is just sex.*
> 
> *So which is it in this equation? Are you the true friend that is permanent or is the PT? Is the PT the lover and you are the friend? Or what?
> *
> 
> I've actually witnessed this happening a couple of times irl.


So it is not casual sex that your wife may having. This may be a longtime relationship. The marriage may be more casual.

But if she is resentful for any reason, is not that her issue? is this like jealous, insecure, controlling .... resentful. If the first three are your problem why is the fourth not hers. Oooooh. Because marriage is supposed to be a partnership. I forgot.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> Another thing. Because I've seen her so often, I bought a massage table that she keeps at her house. Plus, it's hard to lug around a massage table on a motorcycle.
> 
> I do go to her place out of convenience. I drive within a block of her place on my way to work. She goes in the opposite direction. If I didn't go to her, It would be so hard to see her.
> 
> Now there is the no contact thing and I referred her to another therapist. With her job, it doesn't fit her schedule. She was a "special" client I have several of them.
> 
> I have bought 3 massage tables that I keep at my clients home. That is easier for me.


I'm sorry, man. This is just strangely unprofessional. You see her so often you set up shop at her house? For a decade? And had your hands on her as a teenage girl?

Also, didn't you say already, that once a friendship develops, you should have stopped being her MT? What is with you and all of you contradictory statements?

You two may be in an EA if nothing else. I would be extremely suspicious also. You even just said the BF SHOULD be suspicious. WTH? Why would you continue to insert yourself (pun intended) into, and cause problems, for this client and her bf? Because you are much more than professional with this girl.

That explains why you are asking this OP to trust his wife instead of his intuition. You're likely coaching your client to handle her BF the same way.


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> Trickster: In your case, if you were a woman do you think the neighbors or the boyfriend thought anything of it? I don't think so. It's just how we are wired. The same reason why we (should) have female police officers doing strip searches on females etc. That is at least in civilized countries. Though the major difference with your client is that she needs the therapy because of an injury.



Yes, she does need it. The bf, by the way doesn't live with her. Not that that matters. If I were the neighbor or bf, I would be worried too. 

All I am saying here is to nor presume you wife is guilty. I know my client is so hurt that her bf doesn't trust her and she did nothing wrong.

As for you wife, This will eat you alive here. Why not just ask her if something is going on. Say I am crazy for thinking this but.....


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> I've been pondering this and there are several possible outcomes. She could end up resenting and hating me for the rest of our lives. I can't really answer if my wife would walk out on me even if they are just friends. There is that saying that goes something like: lovers come and go but real friends are forever. I've actually witnessed this happening a couple of times irl.


Really? She would resent you forever? Because of wanting a more professional MT/PT? That's like hating your spouse forever because you switched insurance agents. OR SHOULD BE, if this thing is actually professional.

You have bigger problems on your hands with this woman than potential bisexuality.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> She said she was heading for the shower originally but felt some strain on her shoulders/back. I don't know. It sounds it could be plausible.


LISTEN TO YOURSELF. Of COURSE it's not plausible. Why would she be hopping in the shower with the PT still in the house?!


----------



## bandit.45

It's plausible because he's doing everything he can to explain away her actions. And her actions speak of the definite possibility of a probable maybe that she is either trying to seduce her PT or there is something inapprpropriate going on between them. 

All I know, is that if my spouse were brought to grief over any friendship or acquaintance I may have, I would cut that person off to save my marriage. No person outside my marriage is that important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

I think Trickster is trying to cloud the issue (and some of us, myself included, are taking the bait).

The bottom line is, OP, what is your boundary for friendships outside the marriage? What will you tolerate and not tolerate? 

Will you permit your wife to have another person's hands on her naked body? 

Will you permit someone to be rubbing her down in a sensual way, even if it is supposed to be professional?

Will you be okay with coming home and finding her, for whatever reason, on your marriage bed, with someone else, and be sent downstairs while they finish whatever they were doing?

And most importantly, will you allow your wife to place some professional relationship at such a high level of importance, that you actually fear her enduring hatred if you call it off?

You had the chance to survey what was going on, as you were advised to do. You instead decided to bring up your discomfort. That in itself was not a bad thing, but you did it from a position of such weakness, that you allowed your wife to actually shift the relationship out from under your watchful gaze and into secrecy. Now you are going to have to uncover what used to be hiding in plain sight.

The only option, as I and others have said before, is now to force an end to this relationship. For the good of your marriage. For your sanity. (Believe me, you can't live with six months or a year of, "Where is she? Who is she with? Where did she go? Who's texting her?") That kind of uncertainty will eat you alive.

If your wife does not comply, you will then know what you are dealing with. But this piecemeal, passive approach will get you nowhere.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



Trickster said:


> Why not just ask her if something is going on. Say I am crazy for thinking this but.....


Can you say Gaslighting?


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> I'm sorry, man. This is just strangely unprofessional. You see her so often you set up shop at her house? For a decade? And had your hands on her as a teenage girl?



Please, I not going to hijack this thread! When she was a teenager, I was seeing her with her mom there. There is no EA. Her mother did our interior decorating. They are more like family.

It is totally professional. I can easily see why others would not see it that way. My wife is OK with it.


----------



## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> The only option, as I and others have said before, is now to force an end to this relationship. For the good of your marriage. For your sanity. (Believe me, you can't live with six months or a year of, "Where is she? Who is she with? Where did she go? Who's texting her?") That kind of uncertainty will eat you alive.
> 
> If your wife does not comply, you will then know what you are dealing with. But this piecemeal, passive approach will get you nowhere.


I will agree to this. The bf didn't feel comfortable with me being there. Even though I've know her for many many years and she has a legitimate reason for massage. My client, to save her relationship, gave up therapy for her pain. The relationship is more important to her. I don't communicate to her except through her mother. 

CoulditBe, Tell your your concerns, whether passively or a more direct approach. She should be able to understand how it looks from your POV. If nothing is going on, she should be fine. As for my client, her bf has zero trust and she can't prove to him that there wasn't a PA.

I am not trying to cloud anything. Most of the time, situations like this turn out to be an affair. We are all clouded by our relationships here. It doesn't mean everbody cheats just because it mat look like it.


----------



## weightlifter

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't think I'm following where you're getting at. I've never said they would change the place where they are training, which is still in our spare room.
> 
> I mentioned about getting the cam two days ago in post #130, which is actually an answer to your post asking to get one. :scratchhead:


Apologies about missing getting the cams. I thought i saw where you said something along the lines of no cams.

If you are doing both cams and keeping it at hour home... just be prepared. Carry on and apologies for missing some posts.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> I've been pondering this and there are several possible outcomes. She could end up resenting and hating me for the rest of our lives.


Yes and you could end up doing the same, what is your point?

Marriage is about compromise and communication. If you are more comfortable telling us your fears than her, there is a bigger problem in your relationship.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

weightlifter said:


> CIBS. OK you are legit...
> 
> YOU have now changed them back TO DOING IT AT YOUR HOUSE AND ARE GETTING THE CAMS RIGHT!?!?!!


How many times and how many pages ago have the cams been suggested?

Just set the cams up and remove ALL DOUBT.

Its not snooping, its your house.

I've read some horror stories on here and just put a clock cam and use your pen cam as well then you can rest and we can all stop the banter.

BrickHouse Security | Home Security Camera Systems | GPS Surveillance


----------



## weightlifter

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> How many times and how many pages ago have the cams been suggested?
> 
> Just set the cams up and remove ALL DOUBT.
> 
> Its not snooping, its your house.
> 
> I've read some horror stories on here and just put a clock cam and use your pen cam as well then you can rest and we can all stop the banter.
> 
> BrickHouse Security | Home Security Camera Systems | GPS Surveillance


I think he is originally not doing it but realizes it is smart. er I hope.


----------



## Mtts

Trickster said:


> Another thing. Because I've seen her so often, I bought a massage table that she keeps at her house. Plus, it's hard to lug around a massage table on a motorcycle.
> 
> I do go to her place out of convenience. I drive within a block of her place on my way to work. She goes in the opposite direction. If I didn't go to her, It would be so hard to see her.
> 
> Now there is the no contact thing and I referred her to another therapist. With her job, it doesn't fit her schedule. She was a "special" client I have several of them.
> 
> I have bought 3 massage tables that I keep at my clients home. That is easier for me.


Going to derail this thread only once: Trickster if you are doing professional visits why a motorcycle? Get a normal car that supports your work. I'd feel incredibly sketchy about someone who was coming to do physical therapy with me, who showed up on a motorcycle. Chopper or crotch rocket. 

.02


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I want to clear some things to avoid repeating myself:

- I do realise the massage/text was not appropriate
- I was not sent downstairs during it, I left myself
- They did not agree to meet over at PT's place, only my wife mentioned the possibility
- There is no long time relationship between them (unless she knows her from middle/highschool)
- I can't ask her about an affair without any proof; it will go poof
- They obviously are not strictly professional; they are at least friends
- I have set a cam and a var

What else? Okay.

Cam shows the same thing as yesterday; they come in 15 mins before I'm home. I have no idea where they are coming from. Var picked nothing again. I managed to take a sneak peak at her phone. The text about the massage was deleted and nothing else alarming between them, just some small talk stuff about this and that.

I'm thinking about if I tell her to end their friendship/training, I still have these possible outcomes:

1. She will obey and be angry/resentful/hate me
2. She will obey but go underground if they are screwing around or planning to and I will never know the truth
3. She will dump me over her.

Right now the possible outcomes do not look that good for me if I tell her or not. 1/3 or 33% chance for somewhat success. Bummer.


----------



## InlandTXMM

How long has your wife held the marriage hostage? You can't live like this. You have the right to have exclusivity to your wife's heart and body.

If the tables were turned, what would she demand of you?


----------



## Toffer

Try gettting another VAR and camera(s0 and spreading them around the house so you can see what's going on where


----------



## InlandTXMM

This training happens every day, correct? You need to move the cam to the front door area for now - you need to see when she's coming and going. My guess is since you sort-of confronted her, this workout is now for show for you. I think they are hanging out a lot together and getting back to "work out" just before you get there, so everything looks normal. 

More and more, this looks like a lesbian affair. So sorry.


----------



## BobSimmons

Do you call her before you drive home?

Does your phone have a GPS device she can check to gauge how far away you are from the house so they can "start working out" before you get home.

Why not come home early one day, drive up not too far away from the house and walk up to the house. Usually people repeat the same routine day in day out. Change it try to catch her out. Also set up a camera at the front door. Watch the reactions when PT enters the house and the door is closed and they have some privacy.


----------



## weightlifter

Sounds like he has a decent plan. Carry on. 
Might do two cameras one at the other place mentioned.
Let him work his plan.

They may be cooling it ATM. His radar is up. Let him target. 

Do they look at the cam? As in they know it is there?


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> I want to clear some things to avoid repeating myself:
> 
> - I do realise the massage/text was not appropriate
> - I was not sent downstairs during it, I left myself
> - They did not agree to meet over at PT's place, only my wife mentioned the possibility
> - There is no long time relationship between them (unless she knows her from middle/highschool)
> - I can't ask her about an affair without any proof; it will go poof
> - They obviously are not strictly professional; they are at least friends
> - I have set a cam and a var
> 
> What else? Okay.
> 
> Cam shows the same thing as yesterday; they come in 15 mins before I'm home. I have no idea where they are coming from. Var picked nothing again. I managed to take a sneak peak at her phone. The text about the massage was deleted and nothing else alarming between them, just some small talk stuff about this and that.
> 
> I'm thinking about if I tell her to end their friendship/training, I still have these possible outcomes:
> 
> 1. She will obey and be angry/resentful/hate me
> 2. She will obey but go underground if they are screwing around or planning to and I will never know the truth
> 3. She will dump me over her.
> 
> Right now the possible outcomes do not look that good for me if I tell her or not. 1/3 or 33% chance for somewhat success. Bummer.


If I was smart..which I'm not..if I was cheating I would never a)use my phone or texts to relay any incriminating info especially if I'm aware my partner looks at the phone
b) Likewise with email

So checking the phones etc and them not revealing anything should not be a big surprise..especially if they are meeting up frequently..whatever needs to be said or done can be done face to face.


----------



## weightlifter

GPS?? From brick house security?? Maybe later if he gets new red flags.

CIBS.. Would stick with current plan for now.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

*Edited***
1. She will obey and be angry/resentful/hate me
2. She will obey but go underground if they are screwing around or planning to and I will never know the truth
3. She will dump me over her.
[/QUOTE said:


> I noticed that there isn't a 4th possability.
> 
> 4. She gets p*ssed. Cools off after a few weeks and starts to understand my point of view.


----------



## Trickster

I don’t know why this matters to me so much…

I want to talk about a couple other massage situations that I go through...

Way back several years ago, I was doing marketing at a mattress store. Being self-employed, we have to do that. An older lady in her 60”s and her husband came in to look at the beds and decided to get a chair massage. She asked if I knew how to help her sciatica. I told her she would have to come to the office because I needed her to lay down. The Manager of the store overheard us and said we can use the bed in the store. There was nobody else in the store at the time and the lady and her husband didn’t have a problem with it. Within a few minute several people gathered around from the outside and a few came in and asked if they can get the same. “That looks like it feels great” I had my elbow pressing on this woman’s gluts. I helped her a lot and she ended up buying an $8,000 bed and became a weekly client of mine and referred about 10 people to me over the years. If I didn’t use the bed, I wouldn’t of been able to take her pain away. I wasn’t going to put her on the floor. Yes, it was odd and not a normal thing I do, but nobody had a problem with it.

I also volunteer with the MS150 ( a 180 mile bike ride here in Texas. After the first leg, there is the campout, food, beer music whatever and most riders get a massage. MOST ALL of them take a shower first. They don’t want a massage when they are covered in sweat. Some keep their spandex shorts on too and it’s not a big deal. Other (men Take off their shirt and I massage their hairy, sweaty, dusty back. Not my favorite thing to do. 

I also make a house call to another lady client with Parkinson’s. With her I help her with exercises. I also am a personal trainer and with my past experience as a PT aide, I help her with rehab exercises. One time, she was really hurting and wasn’t able to get out of bed and climb up on my massage table. So, I actually worked on her at the foot of her bed. Her husband was there. That isn't a normal thing that I do.


I know it’s not exactly your situation CoulditBe. I know for the person looking at the way your wife was doing and continues to do TO ME, seems normal.

The only time that was crazy for me was during another house call. (regulars) I usually went there Saturday morning. This time The husband went first came in the room in his underwear and climbe on top of the sheets instead of getting under. Not my normal thing, but It was Ok..

Then when it was time for the wife, she came in tok of her robe and climbed on the table face down totaly naked...I grabbed another sheet to cover her up and she said she was hot and didn't want it. When she turned over...I grabbed the sheet to cover up....Thats why my massages are clothes on... Nothing weird there happened. They were just comfortable being naked. I was just out of my comfort zone.

The one ingredient that is missing here, the one that nobody has talked about is a MOTIVE. If all is well in your marriage and if this was an affair, IMHO, you wife would not bring this to your home. You wife doesn’t seem like she is really trying to hide anything.

I agree the poster who said you should get a massage also. If the PT comes to the house, (hopefully she uses a massage table now) tell your wife that you have neck pain and you want to have a massage after you wife’s massage. Many of my house calls I work on both spouses. House calls make about 75% of my business. No matter what others say, house calls are professional. It's great to have a massage at home and not have to get in crazy traffic to go home. 3-5 days a week I have a house calls early in the morning before they go to work or at 5:30 or so when they get home. The only difference for me is that most of the time, the clients keep their cloths on. I am a guy though. If I did the oil/lotion thing, I don't think that I would have many clients, male or female. It is different with female PT/massage therapist.


CoulditBe---You have to realize that most of the people here have been cheated on. They may see the signs way way better than me. IMO, they are biased and want to prove your wife guilty right away. When you gather you evidence you may realize there is nothing going on.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

OP, listen to your gut feeling.

Don't let the doubt kill your every waking thought. Its torture and will only corrupt your thoughts. If your logic says its not happening, and your gut feeling agrees with it then it probably is nothing.

If your gut/instinct feel contrary to what is perceived then, tread softly.


----------



## weightlifter

CIBS... just carry on with the current plan. Other than the two camera idea just let things work out as they are.

I think you will have your answer. Just watch out for any sudden "needing to help a sick friend type stuff" and you should just carry on.


----------



## badbane

okay move the camera for goodness sakes. I understand you are worried but the facts are this. She has a PT that goes to your house. She has given your wife a massage and there is nothing wrong with that. Three you know your Wife and her PT are friends. These are what you know.
Why don't you start talking to the PT? You will do your self a favor by just talking to the PT. You are doing this the hard way. You can simply ask the harmless questions like. 
"What do you guys do? Where do you do it at?" If the PT asks just tell the PT you are thinking about joining in and just were curious how she did things. 
She may tell you everything and it match up. The PT could say We do cardio for 30 minutes in the back yard rest for 3 then do agility in the backyard for twelve minutes and we finish by doing bodyweight exercise for 15 minutes in the workout room. Boom now you have a timeline that matches what you know. problem solved. 
I was an athlete and I know that a PT wouldn't just be doing stuff in one room. Especially if there wasn't the proper equipment to do it. I really think that this isn't as bad as you are getting yourself worked up over. Change your strategy now if your wife says they only workout in the workout room. That's a lie and that is not good but I doubt it is as bad as you are making it out to be. Don't jump ahead of the facts. Don't let the pressure on TAM make you do something out of character. You have no proof of wrongdoing. Which is a good thing. Now for goodness sakes get out from behind the camera and start asking questions. Stop getting so worked up. Trick or whatever his name is does have a point. You are paying someone for a service. And you know you are paying , you know that so far nothing inappropriate has happened. Getting a massage by a PT is not an indication of an A. It is an indication your wife got a massage by a person you paid to come to your house and do work. 

So lets all calm down and wait til after we have heard some information that isn't matching up with what we know.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Nothing new on the cam/var. I noticed today they have had some mildly flirty chatting going on Facebook. Like complimenting each others pics and looks with heart symbols thrown in there. Wife informed today that tomorrow they are going to go shopping for clothes together.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BobSimmons said:


> Do you call her before you drive home?
> 
> Does your phone have a GPS device she can check to gauge how far away you are from the house so they can "start working out" before you get home.
> 
> Why not come home early one day, drive up not too far away from the house and walk up to the house. Usually people repeat the same routine day in day out. Change it try to catch her out. Also set up a camera at the front door. Watch the reactions when PT enters the house and the door is closed and they have some privacy.


Nope no calls usually unless some emergency. She most likely won't even answer while she's working out.

No GPS but I don't think she's that devious.

I can't really leave work earlier that often.

I'm trying other cam at the front door but only going to see the results next week.




weightlifter said:


> Do they look at the cam? As in they know it is there?


Not that I've noticed. I think it's hidden quite well not easy to spot.

Edit: Asked wife she said they go for running/outdoors activity before coming in. I have no way to verify this though.


----------



## badbane

okay define mildy flirty women who are friends tend to talk each other up. There is a difference I am not trying to be nosy but what are the contents of the messages. You can pm me if you don't feel like disclosing or just paraphrase. Or if you don't feel like sharing that's okay. If her phone is an iphone do the find my friends trick in my evidence gathering thread the link is in my signature. If you do it right you will be able to see her location without her knowing you are looking.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> okay define mildy flirty women who are friends tend to talk each other up. There is a difference I am not trying to be nosy but what are the contents of the messages. You can pm me if you don't feel like disclosing or just paraphrase. Or if you don't feel like sharing that's okay. If her phone is an iphone do the find my friends trick in my evidence gathering thread the link is in my signature. If you do it right you will be able to see her location without her knowing you are looking.


For example my wife starts by commenting the PT's photo by calling her 'a hottie' to which she answers 'thanks. you too' followed by a heart from each. In other pic they call each other 'soo beautiful'. She has a Samsung Galaxy.


----------



## badbane

The key that makes all of this wierd is the heart. Usually the heart symbolizes love and intimacy. The so beautiful in this context does indeed seem that there is an intimacy here. So I would say yes you are right to be concerned. The heart could be a BFF deal but again right now we are dealing with what's common since we don't know exactly what's going on. I think your next step is to talk to the PT and the Wife next time you come home. Ask about doing a group workout. You will want to be looking at your wife when you bring it up. if your wife's response is positive. "You could stand to lose a few pounds." That would be a good sign. 
if her response is "why would you want to do that. OR you can't be serious" and your wife seems tense or nervous. Then it is time to really push forwards and really try to push the subject. What you are looking for is a reaction that goes against her norm. for example if she has always said you need to loose some weight and now the idea of working out is perposterous. You have incongruence. Just don't tip your hat to being suspicious. If things get too intense just back off and pretend that it was just a spontaneous thought. If you really want to see how things go start hitting on the PT and see how your wife reacts. 
If your wife is pissed that you hit on the PT that's fine. If you're wife is pissed at the PT then you just started a lovers quarrel.


----------



## stuck in los angeles

Interesting thread. Unusual too.


----------



## happyman64

Are they gonna hold hands while they go shopping tomorrow?

So Could does your wife spend her weekend time with her friends than with you?

Or is this shopping a new activity?


----------



## Chaparral

Take her to bed after she gets home from shopping.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

chapparal said:


> Take her to bed after she gets home from shopping.


Give that a try, don't forget to turn the pen cam/var off....



What does your gut feeling signify? Do you even have it?

Some women talk themselves up especially if they're working out together trying to be healthier and, look more attractive etc.


----------



## Trickster

To paraphrase radio talk show host Outlaw Dave _“Be a voice of reason in a sea of insanity”_

Don't let anybody make you crazy here. TAM is a place for support and find ways to help marriages.

Which seems more plausible?

Your wife has a new "hottie" friend who she wants to emulate, who happens to be an exercise enthusiast, Personal Trainer, and a Massage Therapist. So you wife has a temporary addiction to exercise and a role model. This Personal Trainer may be your wife’s first best friend.

Or

Your wife is having a lesbian relationship with her hot personal Trainer?

Come on people, this is not the Jerry Springer show!


----------



## BrockLanders

Trickster said:


> To paraphrase radio talk show host Outlaw Dave _“Be a voice of reason in a sea of insanity”_
> 
> Don't let anybody make you crazy here. TAM is a place for support and find ways to help marriages.
> 
> Which seems more plausible?
> 
> Your wife has a new "hottie" friend who she wants to emulate, who happens to be an exercise enthusiast, Personal Trainer, and a Massage Therapist. So you wife has a temporary addiction to exercise and a role model. This Personal Trainer may be your wife’s first best friend.
> 
> Or
> 
> Your wife is having a lesbian relationship with her hot personal Trainer?
> 
> Come on people, this is not the Jerry Springer show!


Occam's razor be damned, is the satellite tacker in orbit? UAV drone deployed? Wiretap done?

:lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



Trickster said:


> Come on people, this is not the Jerry Springer show!


No, Jerry Springer couldn't show on TV what we see on a daily basis here on TAM.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Unfortunately, we here at TAM do not have access to what is *really* going on with all of these spouses. Instead, what we have to work with are the spouse's strong gut feelings that something isn't right, and the fact that nearly all WS follow a very common pattern of behavior.

Because we cannot know for sure how "off" his wife's behavior is compared to the norm, we have to rely on the BS's knowledge of the person, as well as that burning feeling in their intuition that something is wrong. That's why I advised the OP to stick with his feelings. HE knows her, not us. Yes, we are all likely projecting our own experiences into what he posts, but that is why he came here- to ask if this is wrong, because his gut is telling him it is.

The problem I see here, overall, isn't really this PT or where she is in the 45 minutes before the camera picks them up. The issue here is a marriage lacking in open communication and mutual regard. Where one spouse (the wife) seems to immediately dismiss and marginalize the needs and feelings of the other.Where one spouse is so heavily catered to by the other that it is now being taken for granted. It is a relationship where the balance of power is heavily shifted to the wife, until we have here a man afraid of putting his foot down on questionable behavior by the woman he married, in his own home. The wife goes on with whatever she's doing, even increasing the contact now by adding flirting, physical contact, time out shopping and, soon, Girls Night Out, to this so-called professional relationship. And yet he does nothing. Why? Fear. She rules this home.

Now, how often is this dynamic found in cases where the wife is cheating? I'd bet greater than 80% based on what I've seen here. A woman will not remain loyal to a man she does not respect. So whether or not the wife is doing anything with the PT, the dynamic is there - the imbalance is there - for it to be very likely.

You want an Occam's razor? Just turn the tables. Flip the characters from her to you and run the scenario again. Would your wife allow all of the activities she's engaged in, from you? If not, you have your answer whether this is appropriate or not. And more importantly, if you were doing these things, would your wife be too afraid of you to demand you put an end to it? Not likely.


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> For example my wife starts by commenting the PT's photo by calling her 'a hottie' to which she answers 'thanks. you too' followed by a heart from each. In other pic they call each other 'soo beautiful'. She has a Samsung Galaxy.


If two men were doing this it would be strange. Two women? I still think that's normal for some women. I think women can compliment each other like that...Even the heart thing.


----------



## Trickster

Barack Obama Kissing Hugo Chavez - Bing Images

So, does this make P-BO Gay?


----------



## Chaparral

Trickster said:


> To paraphrase radio talk show host Outlaw Dave _“Be a voice of reason in a sea of insanity”_
> 
> Don't let anybody make you crazy here. TAM is a place for support and find ways to help marriages.
> 
> Which seems more plausible?
> 
> Your wife has a new "hottie" friend who she wants to emulate, who happens to be an exercise enthusiast, Personal Trainer, and a Massage Therapist. So you wife has a temporary addiction to exercise and a role model. This Personal Trainer may be your wife’s first best friend.
> 
> Or
> 
> Your wife is having a lesbian relationship with her hot personal Trainer?
> 
> Come on people, this is not the Jerry Springer show!


Suppose dly amans gut is only right 50% of the time, a womans is right 80% of the time. By the time a man gets here, from what I have seen, theman turns out to be right over 99% of the time. Once they get here there is almost no chance infidelity is not involved. Sad.

Do you happen to know where theraputic masseuses land on the adultery scale?


----------



## Chaparral

Trickster said:


> Barack Obama Kissing Hugo Chavez - Bing Images
> 
> So, does this make P-BO Gay?


BO did have gay boyfriend in college.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> You want an Occam's razor? Just turn the tables. Flip the characters from her to you and run the scenario again. Would your wife allow all of the activities she's engaged in, from you? If not, you have your answer whether this is appropriate or not. And more importantly, if you were doing these things, would your wife be too afraid of you to demand you put an end to it? Not likely.


Yes, she would. With the exception that I don't receive massages or flirt with my friends or do clothes shopping. We have our own hobbies so it's not like I can tie her to a lamp post. I used to go to a gym with my friends for a long time and also had a band for fun and we used to play at our rented rehearsal place. She had no problem with these.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

happyman64 said:


> Are they gonna hold hands while they go shopping tomorrow?
> 
> So Could does your wife spend her weekend time with her friends than with you?
> 
> Or is this shopping a new activity?


It appears so at least for the saturday, with her friend, not friends. I don't think shopping is new activity to any woman in their late 20s.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Give that a try, don't forget to turn the pen cam/var off....
> 
> 
> 
> What does your gut feeling signify? Do you even have it?
> 
> Some women talk themselves up especially if they're working out together trying to be healthier and, look more attractive etc.


You mean the FB exchanges? I don't really know, seems a lot lady friends "flirt" on FB/Twitter, many even do I love yous etc. but apparently it's all harmless.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster said:


> To paraphrase radio talk show host Outlaw Dave _“Be a voice of reason in a sea of insanity”_
> 
> Don't let anybody make you crazy here. TAM is a place for support and find ways to help marriages.
> 
> Which seems more plausible?
> 
> Your wife has a new "hottie" friend who she wants to emulate, who happens to be an exercise enthusiast, Personal Trainer, and a Massage Therapist. So you wife has a temporary addiction to exercise and a role model. This Personal Trainer may be your wife’s first best friend.
> 
> Or
> 
> Your wife is having a lesbian relationship with her hot personal Trainer?
> 
> Come on people, this is not the Jerry Springer show!


Of course the first one is more plausible but it's impossible to really answer as both of the options are hypothetical at this point.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

If it were me, I would want to know if there was a storm brewing. My eyes would be fixed on the horizon. That's tough to do if my heads buried in the sand...


----------



## InlandTXMM

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> If it were me, I would want to know if there was a storm brewing. My eyes would be fixed on the horizon. That's tough to do if my heads buried in the sand...


^Yep. 

I really hope I'm wrong then, OP. You seem hell-bent on looking the other way. For your sake, I really hope I'm wrong.

I thought it was all innocent too.


----------



## spudster

This guy is walking blind. I'm outta here. Good luck OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewM

Just keep calm and keep recording with var/cam,she will get caught if there is something going on.Don't tell her any suspicions you have or she will start hiding if she thinks you are onto something.Right now if something is going on and she doesn't think you are onto them,she will not hide and be easier to catch.


----------



## TRy

Trickster said:


> Which seems more plausible?
> 
> Your wife has a new "hottie" friend who she wants to emulate, who happens to be an exercise enthusiast, Personal Trainer, and a Massage Therapist. So you wife has a temporary addiction to exercise and a role model. This Personal Trainer may be your wife’s first best friend.
> 
> Or
> 
> Your wife is having a lesbian relationship with her hot personal Trainer?


 More plausible is not a good enough standard to use in matters such as this. Since studies show us that only approximately 20% of spouses cheat in their marraige, spoken in the abstract without details such as the nude massage in bed, it is always more plausible that the spouse is not cheating. But this is not the abstract and the little details that you are ignoring really matter.


----------



## Chaparral

According to my wife, you only take off the clothes you want to take off during a massage. You also have a sheet/blanket covering you. You are totally covered except for the particular part that is being massaged.

Not at all what the OPDescribed..


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> According to my wife, you only take off the clothes you want to take off during a massage. You also have a sheet/blanket covering you. You are totally covered except for the particular part that is being massaged.
> 
> Not at all what the OPDescribed..


I found these instructional back massage videos on Youtube:

Back Massage How to, Spa Therapy Techniques For Full Body Women ASMR Massage - YouTube

How To Give a Back Massage, Jen Hilman Relaxing Swedish Techniques | Austin Massage Therapist - YouTube

In those both, the one receiving the massage is topless (face down) and both masseuses use oil.

What do you think?


----------



## Chaparral

My wife's two massages were by a man in one case and a woman in the other at two different spas. She was covered in both places. She liked the man because his hands were larger and they did not hurt her as much.

She hasn't gone back because she can't stand pain the way most people do. The massages were painful for her.


----------



## Thor

Don't worry about outcome. Concentrate on process. What happens will happen. Set the right processes in motion so that you get to whatever the right outcome is. The right outcome is the one based in facts and which meets your needs.


----------



## badbane

It is normal to be topless my wife goes to a professional massage business for her arthritis and the topless face down is pretty standard.


----------



## TDSC60

CouldItBeSo said:


> I found these instructional back massage videos on Youtube:
> 
> Back Massage How to, Spa Therapy Techniques For Full Body Women ASMR Massage - YouTube
> 
> How To Give a Back Massage, Jen Hilman Relaxing Swedish Techniques | Austin Massage Therapist - YouTube
> 
> In those both, the one receiving the massage is topless (face down) and both masseuses use oil.
> 
> What do you think?


I agree that topless and face down using oil/lotion is fairly standard. On the bed with the masseuse sitting straddled on top of the one receiving the massage is not even close to standard or acceptable in my opinion.

And the messages you uncovered after this incident are disturbing to say the least and could be interpreted either way except the one where you wife is looking forward to the next time WITHOUT you interrupting. That leans toward the bad side for me. She was almost offering an apology to the OW for YOU coming home and interfering with their fun.


----------



## bfree

TDSC60 said:


> I agree that topless and face down using oil/lotion is fairly standard. On the bed with the masseuse sitting straddled on top of the one receiving the massage is not even close to standard or acceptable in my opinion.
> 
> And the messages you uncovered after this incident are disturbing to say the least and could be interpreted either way except the one where you wife is looking forward to the next time WITHOUT you interrupting. That leans toward the bad side for me. She was almost offering an apology to the OW for YOU coming home and interfering with their fun.


CIBS,

Something I never did understand. If her massage was fairly standard and innocent why did she say you interrupted them, especially if you immediately left. And why did she need to apologize for the interruption and promise that they could finish next time. Finish what?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> CIBS,
> 
> Something I never did understand. If her massage was fairly standard and innocent why did she say you interrupted them, especially if you immediately left. And why did she need to apologize for the interruption and promise that they could finish next time. Finish what?


That's what I've been wondering from the first post. Though she didn't specifically mention that I interrupted them. The text message was vague and I can't ask about it and she's also had deleted it later.


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> You mean the FB exchanges? I don't really know, seems a lot lady friends "flirt" on FB/Twitter, many even do I love yous etc. but apparently it's all harmless.


 
I think this is all it is. I still think that your wife has a new best friend and just wants to spend time with her. My wife has a friend that they give each other a lip/cheek kiss. she isn't lesbian because of that. 


When I was doing my 180 thing, I took up bike riding, sculling, and running. I even went to happy hour once or twice a week with my new rowing friends. I was spending way too much time away from my wife. I had lot's of time unacounted for. Add to it my career as a Massage Therapist and anybody with a brain would tell my wife I was having a PA...maybe several...I wasn't though. I did snap out of it and I spend more time at home.

I still see nothing wrong with the massage. If the Personal Trainer wasn't prepared to give your wife that first massage and it was just a spare of the moment ideas, The bed is the most logical place. The other option would be on the floor using a pillow or something. That's not relaxing to me...I know, I know...If she didn't come prepared to give a massage, it shouldn't of happened...

We always have friends come over and on occasion, I will give them a massage...True...Only for a few minutes and the clothes stay on. Thats what I do. Many massage therapist practice the Swedish massage using oil. Many clients would rather not have a deep tissue triggerpoint/rolfing massage unles they have some injury they need help with. It can be painful.

There is a married couple I make a house call to weekly. It is clothing on... The wife hates to be interrupted. Sometimes she will say to her hubb "leave the room, it's my time" Then she will say sorry for the interruption.


----------



## TRy

Trickster said:


> There is a married couple I make a house call to weekly. It is clothing on... The wife hates to be interrupted. Sometimes she will say to her hubb "leave the room, it's my time" Then she will say sorry for the interruption.


 My wife and I each have gotten massages from the same female, clothing on. We both feel free to quietly enter the room and stay and watch whenever we want to. Neither of us would ever think to tell the other to "leave the room, it is my time". Very strange. Is this one of the women that you told us in another post on this thread that you get so close to their "V" that they get a visible wet spot in their panties? (To others reading this post, I am not making this up)


----------



## InlandTXMM

No, remember - they all got wet, then many got wet, then he couldn't remember any. It was a "slight exaggeration". *rolls eyes*


----------



## Trickster

shaitsu massage - Bing Videos


CIBS---
this is a short video of Shaitsu Massage. This may be similar to what your wife was recieving


----------



## LoriC

Reminder: this is a "friend" "personal trainer", is she also a licensed masseuse?


----------



## Trickster

LoriC said:


> Reminder: this is a "friend" "personal trainer", is she also a licensed masseuse?


 
No, she is not licensed. She does Physiotherapy and has been trained for massage. The "massage" was because the OP's wife is a "special client"..

That's not helping my case here. I think the odds are 50-1 in favor the the wife having an affair. I don't think the wife has had any more massages. I could be wrong.


----------



## badbane

I am still not convinced it is a two way affair. I think the A is mostly on your wife's side honestly. Think of it this way if she keeps your wife on the hook and in "love" imagine how much more you will be paying her. This is just a really strange stiuation given the intimate nature the of a PT. I highly suggest you attempt to be a part of the workout sessions. nothing will ruin thier mojo like you being all up in their business.
to be honest you can move the camera's all you want but you will get a lot more information by making it a pain for them to continue this L fantasy.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

I think your wife is bisexual, and seducing the PT...

Because she got away with the story, she is getting more brutal in what she thinks she can get away with. "What does it look like? I am getting a massage here"

If you are for real, I am sorry for you. Otherwise the best written funniest story on TAM!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> Reminder: this is a "friend" "personal trainer", is she also a licensed masseuse?





Trickster said:


> No, she is not licensed. She does Physiotherapy and has been trained for massage. The "massage" was because the OP's wife is a "special client"..
> 
> That's not helping my case here. I think the odds are 50-1 in favor the the wife having an affair. I don't think the wife has had any more massages. I could be wrong.


She has a degree in physiotherapy (Bachelor of Health Care) which is a 3.5 year school. As fas as I know she gave the massage because they are friends.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> I am still not convinced it is a two way affair. I think the A is mostly on your wife's side honestly. Think of it this way if she keeps your wife on the hook and in "love" imagine how much more you will be paying her. This is just a really strange stiuation given the intimate nature the of a PT. I highly suggest you attempt to be a part of the workout sessions. nothing will ruin thier mojo like you being all up in their business.
> to be honest you can move the camera's all you want but you will get a lot more information by making it a pain for them to continue this L fantasy.


My wife is paying herself for her training. So you think she's using my wife? I honestly think the hook for my wife is the workout itself. You should see her when they workout she's like 'no sweat wonderful'.

I can't attempt their training due to my work schedule. Not really sure I would even want to as they do mostly cardio/aerobics type stuff and honestly I couldn't probably keep up with them.


----------



## NewM

Did var/camera pick anything up?Are they still coming home 15 mins before you come from work.

You could install spy software on her phone and see her texts before she deletes them:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology.html


----------



## Trickster

CIBS-

I still think that most everybody it making a huge deal over this. 
If all else is fine in your marriage: you have affection, the sex is still the same or better because your wife is working out, There is no GNO, you still communicate, still have date nights…Then more than likely, this is normal stuff.

When your wife finds out about the VAR and the cam? Eventually she will. I hope you wife is understanding. If nothing is going on she can think “how on Earth can you think I am bi-sexual…You don’t really know me at all!”
Nobody here knows you or your wife. Everybody is telling you she is cheating as if it a fact. If not right now, it will be in the future. Everybody seems to be projecting their own fear and their own relationship on to you. They are paranoid. It’s sad! I hate to disrespect the veterans here, but I think this time, for this thread they are wrong. Just MHO. They will respond that I am a crazy dumba$$

I think you have had the VAR for over a week now and you found nothing incriminating. If something was going on here, something would slip by now. The only issue I would have would be the exercise addiction you wife has...Thats it. Tell her you think she a a hot babe since shes been working out, which I am sure you arleady do that. 

In a joking kind of way, say that your afraid some man will come along and steal her away from you. Personally, I'd be more afraid of that that a lesbian relationship.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

NewM said:


> Did var/camera pick anything up?Are they still coming home 15 mins before you come from work.
> 
> You could install spy software on her phone and see her texts before she deletes them:
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology.html


Pretty much the same on cam/var. They come our place and go training so I guess my wife is telling the truth that they go running first. I can't really catch her lying about anything but on the other hand can't verify if she's telling the truth either. Frustrating.

Thanks for the link I'm going to look if I can sneak some spy software on her phone.


----------



## Chaparral

Trickster said:


> CIBS-
> 
> I still think that most everybody it making a huge deal over this.
> If all else is fine in your marriage: you have affection, the sex is still the same or better because your wife is working out, There is no GNO, you still communicate, still have date nights…Then more than likely, this is normal stuff.
> 
> When your wife finds out about the VAR and the cam? Eventually she will. I hope you wife is understanding. If nothing is going on she can think “how on Earth can you think I am bi-sexual…You don’t really know me at all!”
> Nobody here knows you or your wife. Everybody is telling you she is cheating as if it a fact. If not right now, it will be in the future. Everybody seems to be projecting their own fear and their own relationship on to you. They are paranoid. It’s sad! I hate to disrespect the veterans here, but I think this time, for this thread they are wrong. Just MHO. They will respond that I am a crazy dumba$$
> 
> I think you have had the VAR for over a week now and you found nothing incriminating. If something was going on here, something would slip by now. The only issue I would have would be the exercise addiction you wife has...Thats it. Tell her you think she a a hot babe since shes been working out, which I am sure you arleady do that.
> 
> In a joking kind of way, say that your afraid some man will come along and steal her away from you. Personally, I'd be more afraid of that that a lesbian relationship.


We are not saying she IS having an affair with the OW. We are simply advising how to catch someone who looks like she may be having an affair.

The biggest red flag of all is that the poster is here asking for help. The odds that someone comes here and there is nothing going on is almost zero. It is unbelievable how many times we get our hopes up and they are dashed ove and over.

After looking at way over a thousand threads, I would guess less than five, that I loked at, have found there was not an affair. And its very sad. On top of that, studies claim 80% of affairs go undetected.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster said:


> CIBS-
> 
> I still think that most everybody it making a huge deal over this.
> If all else is fine in your marriage: you have affection, the sex is still the same or better because your wife is working out, There is no GNO, you still communicate, still have date nights…Then more than likely, this is normal stuff.
> 
> When your wife finds out about the VAR and the cam? Eventually she will. I hope you wife is understanding. If nothing is going on she can think “how on Earth can you think I am bi-sexual…You don’t really know me at all!”
> Nobody here knows you or your wife. Everybody is telling you she is cheating as if it a fact. If not right now, it will be in the future. Everybody seems to be projecting their own fear and their own relationship on to you. They are paranoid. It’s sad! I hate to disrespect the veterans here, but I think this time, for this thread they are wrong. Just MHO. They will respond that I am a crazy dumba$$
> 
> I think you have had the VAR for over a week now and you found nothing incriminating. If something was going on here, something would slip by now. The only issue I would have would be the exercise addiction you wife has...Thats it. Tell her you think she a a hot babe since shes been working out, which I am sure you arleady do that.
> 
> In a joking kind of way, say that your afraid some man will come along and steal her away from you. Personally, I'd be more afraid of that that a lesbian relationship.


I can totally understand the both sides in this. It could be that it's a big fuss over nothing. I've read some threads here where the BS waited too long without doing anything or similar so I can understand that side too. There are also some stories where the affair didn't affect the marriage negatively at all.

She'll most likely freak out if she finds them. She'll think I have some weird fetish probably.

I don't think I need to worry about other guys more than normally. She's not flirty at all with other men.


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> I can totally understand the both sides in this. It could be that it's a big fuss over nothing. I've read some threads here where the BS waited too long without doing anything or similar so I can understand that side too. There are also some stories where the affair didn't affect the marriage negatively at all.
> 
> She'll most likely freak out if she finds them. She'll think I have some weird fetish probably.
> 
> I don't think I need to worry about other guys more than normally. She's not flirty at all with other men.


Interesting last sentence. That could potentially be a sign that she is more interested in flirting with women. Which would explain her level of arousal when you walked in on the massage. I think everybody at this point is just sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for you to tell us that she actually is having an affair with her PT/friend. I hope not for your sake.


----------



## Chaparral

This may even be the best sitch. There have been many threads here where the wife picked up a boyfriend at a gym while working out. Of course the hubby knew she would never do that.


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> I can totally understand the both sides in this. It could be that it's a big fuss over nothing. I've read some threads here where the BS waited too long without doing anything or similar so I can understand that side too. There are also some stories where the affair didn't affect the marriage negatively at all.
> 
> She'll most likely freak out if she finds them. She'll think I have some weird fetish probably.
> 
> I don't think I need to worry about other guys more than normally. She's not flirty at all with other men.


 
CIBS... I will say that my marriage is far from perfect. Thats why I am here. With my profession as a massage therapist, my wife could have many many reasons to think I was having an affair. I work morning, as well as many evenings. Being that my work is physical, I sweat a lot. So , I change my shirts often. I receive texts all the time from women/clients sayin "I NEED YOU" or " I FEEL GREAT, you have magical hands XOXO". I make so many house calls. So are married couples and a very few are single women. I always tell my wife if I have a house call, especially if it is at a womans home. So... when this recent issue with this female client popped up with her BF, my wife new all about her and new there was nothing going on. I don't want that to happen to you. The way it looked, especially when I saw her mornings, the neighbors may have thought I was there all night. The bf still thinks that I may be the father...Sometimes our eyes lie.

At some point, you will have to put away the cam. Part of a marriage is trust. Although some of the things you wife is doing, may not seem right, I think it seems normal.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> Interesting last sentence. That could potentially be a sign that she is more interested in flirting with women. Which would explain her level of arousal when you walked in on the massage. I think everybody at this point is just sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for you to tell us that she actually is having an affair with her PT/friend. I hope not for your sake.


Hmm. Do you think she IS flirting with her PT or are they just good friends like some people suggest?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> This may even be the best sitch. There have been many threads here where the wife picked up a boyfriend at a gym while working out. Of course the hubby knew she would never do that.


How does this relate to my situation? She has shown nothing that I should worry about regarding boundaries with other men. Of course, obviously, I wouldn't be here if thought the same about her behavior with her PT.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> Hmm. Do you think she IS flirting with her PT or are they just good friends like some people suggest?


Look every woman I have ever met has at some point experimented, fatasized about, attempted, and/or was invovled in a sexual or intimate relationship with another woman. Not saying every woman out there is a lesbian is hiding. I am just saying that maybe your wife has never been attracted to another woman before. It could be a situation where your wife really doesn't know what's going on in side her head. It sounds like the PT has not done anything inappropriate. Your neighbors haven't said anything. Your camera is proving your wife is being honest. So have you asked the PT to make the training a group deal so maybe your wife can watch you workout, get all sweaty, maybe even see you in a different light.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> My wife is paying herself for her training. So you think she's using my wife? I honestly think the hook for my wife is the workout itself. You should see her when they workout she's like 'no sweat wonderful'.
> 
> I can't attempt their training due to my work schedule. Not really sure I would even want to as they do mostly cardio/aerobics type stuff and honestly I couldn't probably keep up with them.


okay does a stripper sit in your lap because she likes you. Is the waitress nice because you sat at a table she is responsible for. Is a masseuse excited about massaging a hairy mans back.
And I am sorry I work full time , full time student at my university, I volunteer at church on Sundays, and mentor student athelete's in the fall and still manage to get a workout in. So unless you are working 90 hours a week. I am sure you could work in a PT session with your Wife. I would kill to have a PT as I am generally unmotivated when it comes to running and lifting and am used to having a coach and teammates in my face egging me on. So you have the time and the means. Go get involved.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster said:


> CIBS... I will say that my marriage is far from perfect. Thats why I am here. With my profession as a massage therapist, my wife could have many many reasons to think I was having an affair. I work morning, as well as many evenings. Being that my work is physical, I sweat a lot. So , I change my shirts often. I receive texts all the time from women/clients sayin "I NEED YOU" or " I FEEL GREAT, you have magical hands XOXO". I make so many house calls. So are married couples and a very few are single women. I always tell my wife if I have a house call, especially if it is at a womans home. So... when this recent issue with this female client popped up with her BF, my wife new all about her and new there was nothing going on. I don't want that to happen to you. The way it looked, especially when I saw her mornings, the neighbors may have thought I was there all night. The bf still thinks that I may be the father...Sometimes our eyes lie.
> 
> At some point, you will have to put away the cam. Part of a marriage is trust. Although some of the things you wife is doing, may not seem right, I think it seems normal.


The difference being, again that you are a man your client is a woman. Besides my wife's PT can't impregnate her. If I'm being totally honest, I wouldn't let you PT or massage my wife especially after all these wet spots talk etc. lol.


----------



## sandc

Maybe she feels more comfortable flirting with a woman because she knows it won't go anywhere. 

Maybe.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> Look every woman I have ever met has at some point experimented, fatasized about, attempted, and/or was invovled in a sexual or intimate relationship with another woman. Not saying every woman out there is a lesbian is hiding. I am just saying that maybe your wife has never been attracted to another woman before. It could be a situation where your wife really doesn't know what's going on in side her head. It sounds like the PT has not done anything inappropriate. Your neighbors haven't said anything. Your camera is proving your wife is being honest. *So have you asked the PT to make the training a group deal so maybe your wife can watch you workout, get all sweaty, maybe even see you in a different light*.


I think I addressed this earlier. Even if I could attend, which I cannot due to work, their training is my wife's hobby, her own thing she likes to do. I can't just tell her to change it just so I can join and spy on her. And that's what they would be required to do since their workout is specifically tailored for my wife (kinda what _Personal _Trainers are there for in the first place). Also I don't see what I would achieve by attending their training or getting massages from the PT. Obviously they wouldn't do anything in front of me.



badbane said:


> And I am sorry I work full time , full time student at my university, I volunteer at church on Sundays, and mentor student athelete's in the fall and still manage to get a workout in. So unless you are working 90 hours a week. I am sure you could work in a PT session with your Wife. I would kill to have a PT as I am generally unmotivated when it comes to running and lifting and am used to having a coach and teammates in my face egging me on. So you have the time and the means. Go get involved.


It's not about me having no time. They train when I'm still at work and the PT has also a life and other duties/clients. I still lift weights at home 4 days a week.


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## bandit.45

You should sit down with your wife and have a talk about boundaries. Sounds like the two of you just march through your marriage making assumptions about what you will take and won't take from each other. Right now your boundaries are being crossed and she needs to be made aware of it...in the most loving way you can. For now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> The difference being, again that you are a man your client is a woman. Besides my wife's PT can't impregnate her. If I'm being totally honest, I wouldn't let you PT or massage my wife especially after all these wet spots talk etc. lol.


 
I've been a massage therapist for 12 years now. I've massaged thousands of people...Over those years, 3 men had an erection, maybe 5 women had a noticeable wet spot. To me that is a lot.... It's all relative. It does stick out in my mind though. I don't think I am a hunk by a long shot. however, if I was a scary pervert of some sort, people wouldn't come back. As a heterosexual male massage therapist, I have many female clients, Mostly married. Many of them even refer their husbands to me. Husbands refer their wife to me. That's why I do clothing on massage therapy. I would never make it if I did the oil thing. I did that for a while many years ago... As a male, I won't do that again.

I don't think they get wet by fantasizing over me..that's a laugh and I am not dooling over them either. I think the ones who get turned on are embarrased and they don't always come back. 

About the pregnancy...the bf doesn't trust his gf/ my client anymore. That's sad. I don't think theres going to be much of a future together.

Another poster said I was having at least an EA with this woman... Massage is so personal and I've had 90% of my clients for over 5 years. I know so much about them and they know a lot about me. In that sense, they are friends. 

Eventually your wife may start talking to her PT about something personal. So far she hasn't which is a great thing...

If you notice other threads on infedelity, There is so many more clues and signs...:less sex, less affectionate, sleeping in the spare bedroom, wearing sexier clothes, new hairdoo or a new look, spouse has new hobbies, GNO/BNO... Your wife doesn't do any of that. That's where I am coming from.


----------



## Trickster

sandc said:


> Maybe she feels more comfortable flirting with a woman because she knows it won't go anywhere.
> 
> Maybe.


 
This could be true...Some women even some of my clients flirt with me...Sometimes, they wil say hey handsome when greeting me. . The women, not the men. lol I don't know if that's flirting or not. After I started to work out and bulk up, even my male clients would say I am looking better or something like that. For a while, I developed a big stomach. They also said" what's up with the big stomach...All in fun....

The flirty women know I am married and feel safe that it won't lead to anything. That could be why women like to hang out with gay men. As for CIBS, I think the flirting is just in fun trying to motivate each other.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Ok, I have a bad feeling about this. I don't know if the following makes any sense cause I might be getting paranoid.

Today, after their workout the PT is about to leave and they hug like they normally do. So for whatever reason I just stand there nearby and decide to watch their interaction more carefully. Lo and behold my wife has her eyes closed (!) during the hug. She then opens her eyes, looks me straight in the eye and notices me watching them and slowly starts departing from the hug. The PT looks at my wife, turns her head (she has her back at me) and follows her gaze at me and then steps back away from my wife like quickly getting distance. I don't know what it is but they both totally look like deers in the headlights. Then after an awkward second she looks away, says bye and leaves out the door and wife heads to the shower. 

All this happened relatively quickly and my logical brain is saying it's just my imagination but my gut is saying it's not. Fvck.


----------



## badbane

Listen I am telling you please for all that is holy tell your wife that you are goin to make the workout a group thing. If something is really going on you can put a damper on it until you can find something concrete. Tell the PT you will pay her double to do so. Make it an offer that she no one in thier right mind would refuse.


----------



## tdwal

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, I have a bad feeling about this. I don't know if the following makes any sense cause I might be getting paranoid.
> 
> Today, after their workout the PT is about to leave and they hug like they normally do. So for whatever reason I just stand there nearby and decide to watch their interaction more carefully. Lo and behold my wife has her eyes closed (!) during the hug. She then opens her eyes, looks me straight in the eye and notices me watching them and slowly starts departing from the hug. The PT looks at my wife, turns her head (she has her back at me) and follows her gaze at me and then steps back away from my wife like quickly getting distance. I don't know what it is but they both totally look like deers in the headlights. Then after an awkward second she looks away, says bye and leaves out the door and wife heads to the shower.
> 
> All this happened relatively quickly and my logical brain is saying it's just my imagination but my gut is saying it's not. Fvck.


Trust your gut.


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ok, I have a bad feeling about this. I don't know if the following makes any sense cause I might be getting paranoid.
> 
> Today, after their workout the PT is about to leave and they hug like they normally do. So for whatever reason I just stand there nearby and decide to watch their interaction more carefully. Lo and behold my wife has her eyes closed (!) during the hug. She then opens her eyes, looks me straight in the eye and notices me watching them and slowly starts departing from the hug. The PT looks at my wife, turns her head (she has her back at me) and follows her gaze at me and then steps back away from my wife like quickly getting distance. I don't know what it is but they both totally look like deers in the headlights. Then after an awkward second she looks away, says bye and leaves out the door and wife heads to the shower.
> 
> All this happened relatively quickly and my logical brain is saying it's just my imagination but my gut is saying it's not. Fvck.


And you could have then caught your wifes eyes and embraced her and given her a deep passionate kiss. Taken a shower with her, lifted her in your arms and taken her to bed. Fade to black.


----------



## BobSimmons

Maybe she was sleepy


----------



## bandit.45

Trust your gut. Not your head, not your heart. 

There's something going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons

Oh for heaven's sake man, if you're that uncomfortable with it tell her to stop with this PT. 

All this p*ssyfooting around, you're still at the same place you were when this saga begun


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

CouldItBeSo, are you worried that if you make a stand and tell your wife, "PT or ME, which will it be?" That your wife will not back down and choose the PT over you? If this is the case, I have to tell you, the decision's being made allready, with out any input from you.

You don't have to go all cave man on her, but it looks like there is a third person in YOUR marriage allready. If you don't do something, you'll be the odd man out, no pun intended. soon...


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Entropy3000 said:


> And you could have then caught your wifes eyes and embraced her and given her a deep passionate kiss. Taken a shower with her, lifted her in your arms and taken her to bed. Fade to black.


I realise my last post was quite a long brain babbling but it all happened really fast. And my wife ran for the shower as soon as the PT was out the door. Well not ran exactly but she was quick.

She's also shopping with her (again) at the moment. Don't ask how she sneaked out and send a text while I was watching TV...


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BobSimmons said:


> Oh for heaven's sake man, if you're that uncomfortable with it tell her to stop with this PT.
> 
> All this p*ssyfooting around, you're still at the same place you were when this saga begun


Well, it's been less than two weeks since I discovered my wife's text message.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> CouldItBeSo, are you worried that if you make a stand and tell your wife, "PT or ME, which will it be?" That your wife will not back down and choose the PT over you? If this is the case, I have to tell you, the decision's being made allready, with out any input from you.
> 
> You don't have to go all cave man on her, but it looks like there is a third person in YOUR marriage allready. If you don't do something, you'll be the odd man out, no pun intended. soon...


I agree, it's not up to me then of course but I can't help I still worry about it. I'm also worried about if I'm totally wrong about this and then make her choose needlessly and she ends up resenting me because of it.

Sigh maybe I need to put my alpha armor on then and stop being the nice guy.


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## bandit.45

And for two weeks you've been hemming and hawing and sitting on your hands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> I agree, it's not up to me then of course but I can't help I still worry about it. I'm also worried about if I'm totally wrong about this and then make her choose needlessly and she ends up resenting me because of it.
> 
> Sigh maybe I need to put my alpha armor on then and stop being the nice guy.


Are you this indecisive in all aspects of your life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

I think you need to just tell her you're uncomfortable with their closeness and you'd like her to find a different personal trainer. Help her look. Maybe find a gay man. If she fights you on this, calls you controlling, there is something going on there. If she is just disappointed and mopes, then probably nothing going on. The thing is, it's not helping you to love your wife more so it's damaging your marriage. You need to help her see this.


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## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> I realise my last post was quite a long brain babbling but it all happened really fast. And my wife ran for the shower as soon as the PT was out the door. Well not ran exactly but she was quick.
> 
> She's also shopping with her (again) at the moment. Don't ask how she sneaked out and send a text while I was watching TV...


If that was my wife I would have been in the shower with her. You have to step up to the plate in order to swing.

And she snuck out of the house to go shopping?

Did you track her to make sure she was really shopping?

You should text her back and say we are going out for dinner. Meet me "restaurant" at 7pm and cut their little shopping spree short.

Come on man use your head. You do not need armor. Just use the balls god gave you!!!!!!


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## CouldItBeSo

Tried to call a couple of times, went to voice mail and text no answer yet. It's getting pretty late for shopping.


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## BobSimmons

I don't understand you dude..you say it's not anything, yet you infer something is going on. It's almost like you run here to report things instead of sorting it out yourself. She ran to take a shower, why didn't you follow her and wait for her to finish.. then talk to her..instead you ran to the computer..


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## CouldItBeSo

No this all happened a few hours ago I needed to do some other things and run errands since it's friday. Can't follow her around 24/7 even if I wanted. I only 'reported' here after this all happened and I had free time. This is 'coping with infidelity' forum no? Is it a wrong forum.


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## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> No this all happened a few hours ago I needed to do some other things and run errands since it's friday. Can't follow her around 24/7 even if I wanted. I only 'reported' here after this all happened and I had free time. This is 'coping with infidelity' forum no? Is it a wrong forum.


You found time to post here twice. I'm thinking your life, and your marriage should be a priority. Like I said you seem to be intimating something's up, yet not doing anything about it


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## CouldItBeSo

BobSimmons said:


> You found time to post here twice. I'm thinking your life, and your marriage should be a priority. Like I said you seem to be intimating something's up, yet not doing anything about it


This forum is actually the only place I have talked about this. Haven't talked to anyone irl. Haven't got the chance to talk with her alone today. Tbh it feels like she knows I have something to say and is avoiding me. Probably has some excuse for not calling or texting back.

Also I'd like to comment on your remark that I'm 'reporting' here instead of 'sorting it myself'. Isn't the whole purpose of this forum to get help and advice when you can't 'sort it yourself'? I see others ask advice here all the time and I'm not exactly an expert regarding infidelity.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Sigh maybe I need to put my alpha armor on then and stop being the nice guy.


 "Maybe", is that the best you can do? It past maybe a long time ago.


----------



## sandc

CouldItBeSo said:


> This forum is actually the only place I have talked about this. Haven't talked to anyone irl. Haven't got the chance to talk with her alone today. Tbh it feels like she knows I have something to say and is avoiding me. Probably has some excuse for not calling or texting back.
> 
> Also I'd like to comment on your remark that I'm 'reporting' here instead of 'sorting it myself'. Isn't the whole purpose of this forum to get help and advice when you can't 'sort it yourself'? I see others ask advice here all the time and I'm not exactly an expert regarding infidelity.


We're trying to get you to act. It's not intended to be hurtful.

Like a friendly sergeant giving a nervous basic trainee a kick in the ass to help him out the door on his first parachute jump.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

CouldItBeSo said:


> I agree, it's not up to me then of course but I can't help I still worry about it. I'm also worried about if I'm totally wrong about this and then make her choose needlessly and she ends up resenting me because of it.
> 
> Sigh maybe I need to put my alpha armor on then and stop being the nice guy.


Then make it so it's up to you. If it were I, I would have allready seen enough. Your just standing on that dock, watching your ship sail away... Start swimming! It could be too late, BUT it also may not be. Find out! The longer you wait, the harder this is going to be. I get the feeling that you're not the type of person who likes to make waves. This is your wife and your marriage on the line here! Even if you've never had to make such an important stand in your life before - I'm telling you, if you don't do something soon, you could regret it for the rest of your life.

I don't know, maybe print out your wedding vows and leave them in the kitchen table. When she asks you what it's all about, have her say them to you out loud. Then take it from there... Maybe ask her if they still mean to her now what thay did when you got married. Tell her what they mean to you...


----------



## Chaparral

Why would she not answer her phone if she was shopping?
I would just bluntly ask her if she was in love with her pt and was having an affair. First sit her down directly across from her and watch her very closely.


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## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> No this all happened a few hours ago I needed to do some other things and run errands since it's friday. Can't follow her around 24/7 even if I wanted. I only 'reported' here after this all happened and I had free time. This is 'coping with infidelity' forum no? Is it a wrong forum.


Please don't do the anger transference I see from many posters. You are being told how to cope. Either stand up for your feelings or continue to be a doormat. You have MORE than enough to, you know, TALK TO YOUR WIFE. So what if she resents you? People get over that crap or there are more issues in your marriage than you think. I ended some female friendships and didn't resent my wife, until her EA. That was me resenting her hypocrisy not about ending any old female friendships.

Sorry, no "errands" are more important than any of my family members or marriage.


----------



## weightlifter

DAMMIT. Thought we had a more smoke than fire one here.


----------



## RClawson

I gotta jump in. OP is the PT encroaching on your personal time with you wife in an inordinate way? If so you need to tell her to cut back for the sake of your relationship. 

I will guarantee you she will pretty much refuse to do it.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Now, the hugging with eyes closed, and the looks in their eyes are enough confirmation for me, IF these are the facts. You don't know if your imagination is playing you.

You have the choice to act now, because she saw you seeing it, or act like the doormat, quite literally seen the location where this happened.

Don't try to convince her stay with you with being nice and loving, that will make you look even weaker in her eyes.

If you have some doubt about this actually happening, then get evidence on video.


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> This forum is actually the only place I have talked about this. Haven't talked to anyone irl. Haven't got the chance to talk with her alone today. Tbh it feels like she knows I have something to say and is avoiding me. Probably has some excuse for not calling or texting back.
> 
> Also I'd like to comment on your remark that I'm 'reporting' here instead of 'sorting it myself'. Isn't the whole purpose of this forum to get help and advice when you can't 'sort it yourself'? I see others ask advice here all the time and I'm not exactly an expert regarding infidelity.


None of us are experts, at least not for me. Been cheated on twice, so I have experience. What you have here is the combined knowledge of everyone here that has more or less gone through the same things you have but crucially if you want to save your marriage how to step up and put in motion the actions to dead what's occurring.

At the end of the day, all the nudging in the world from the people here, only you can act or "sort it out", no one here can do it for you. You know your wife well, you felt something was going on, now she's avoiding you or going shopping, something is up.

For me regardless of the fact if I saw what you saw, and the inordinate amount of time your wife is spending with this woman I'd put a stop to it. But no one here can, only you. Isn't it about time you took "the bull by the horns" take charge of your life, this is your marriage buddy.


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## InlandTXMM

Red Alert, OP. 

The affair is well underway. She's got more than her big toe in the waters of a lesbian relationship.

I am SO sorry for what I fear you're about to endure. 

Again, since you will not just immediately end this between them you must gather the evidence to confront and blow this sky high.


----------



## bfree

If she saw you watching that touching scene between her and her PT and you do nothing about it you are by default endorsing her relationship with this other woman. That is how she is going to think and see things and you are seeming weaker to her by the day. She is rapidly losing whatever respect she once had for you as you watch your marriage spiral down the toilet. I am not saying this to hurt you or inflame but I just want you to know this now so in the near future when she tells you "I love you but I'm not in love with you" you will understand what happened to get you to that point.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Had a confrontation and the talk this morning.

First, didn't have a chance to talk with her yesterday as it was getting late and I dozed off in bed before the missus decided to show up.

So... I woke up early in the morning and no sign of her. Checked my phone and there's some apparently drunken messages from her which made of little sense. Tried to call her cell and heard it ringing inside the house. Went to the living room and there she was, as was her PT, sleeping and spooning on the couch. I woke them up and they both looked like deadbeats and like they were drunk. I kinda lost it and told the PT this was not appropriate and told her to leave. After she left wife started panicking and telling I'm taking this too serious. That they were just out 'for a few drinks' after shopping and decided to come crash at our place since it's closer and nothing else. I then basically told her this whole thing with her PT was straining our marriage and she can't see her anymore and that she can choose it's me or her. She became all teary and telling me that it's not fair and generally making no sense while we went on a few rounds about boundaries. 

Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm. So now I'm the big monster. She's crying in the other room as I'm typing this... wtf?


----------



## tdwal

CouldItBeSo said:


> Had a confrontation and the talk this morning.
> 
> First, didn't have a chance to talk with her yesterday as it was getting late and I dozed off in bed before the missus decided to show up.
> 
> So... I woke up early in the morning and no sign of her. Checked my phone and there's some apparently drunken messages from her which made of little sense. Tried to call her cell and heard it ringing inside the house. Went to the living room and there she was, as was her PT, sleeping and spooning on the couch. I woke them up and they both looked like deadbeats and like they were drunk. I kinda lost it and told the PT this was not appropriate and told her to leave. After she left wife started panicking and telling I'm taking this too serious. That they were just out 'for a few drinks' after shopping and decided to come crash at our place since it's closer and nothing else. I then basically told her this whole thing with her PT was straining our marriage and she can't see her anymore and that she can choose it's me or her. She became all teary and telling me that it's not fair and generally making no sense while we went on a few rounds about boundaries.
> 
> Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm. So now I'm the big monster. She's crying in the other room as I'm typing this... wtf?


Good for you, don't back off.


----------



## BobSimmons

Boundaries, I think she stepped over the threshold, not so much stepped but took a flying leap over it.

Story seems to have escalated somewhat. Just surprised she's being so outright about it all right there in your house. Thing is you know it's an emotional affair and she's engaging in it right under your nose while you're there..imagine what they're up to when you're not.


----------



## sandc

I don't know close female friends that "spoon". Your wife's reaction tells me there was something going on. She shouldn't have this kind of reaction over someone she's paying to provide a service. She shouldn't have this reaction over a "friend." She was heading towards a full on affair with this woman, if they didn't already kick things off last night. It almost sounds like the PT is softening your wife up.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CouldItBeSo said:


> Edited - Went to the living room and there she was, as was her PT, sleeping and spooning on the couch.


What does this say to you? She's now bringing the PT home and sleeping with her right in front of you. If you start back peddling and compromising now you might as well get the divorce in motion. Because that's where this is headed. At least have the divorce papers printed out, so when your wife is texting the PT right in front of you you can hand her the paperwork. Either the relationship with the PT ends, completely, NOW, or your marriage is going to end, in the not so distant future. You need to take charge my friend. And if your marriage makes it through this, you need to STAY in charge from here on out.


----------



## Chaparral

Woooooooowwwww, that was some shopping spree. What was in those shopping bags? 

Stay strong, weakness now will be the end of your marriage.


----------



## Chaparral

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books an absolute must

Here is the attitude you have to take now. Its known as the "let her go" thread. It doesn't mean get rid of her, it means you have to be willing to move on in order to save your marriage.

*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.*


----------



## bryanp

Good for you standing up for yourself. The fact that she would bring her girlfriend home and sleep and spoon with her while you are asleep in your bed is so way over the top. You busted her completely. She is showing total contempt and disrespect to you and your marriage.

I have a hunch that she will tell you she will not see her and then go underground to see her behind your back. I believe she is far too deep in this relationship to let go. Please contact an attorney to understand your options. Good luck.


----------



## sandc

You may want to draw up divorce paperwork just to get her attention. There are lots of sample divorce documents on the Internet. Print one out and leave it lying around. It will make her nervous and uncertain of your intent.


----------



## the guy

Finally, now do not let up, no matter what, when she approaches you and tries to manipulate and negotiate, inform her that "it appears you have made your choice now please pack you things and leave".

Remember this statement will tell her #1 how confident you are in letting her #2 you no longer want to share your wife, and # 3 this is serious and it time to sh1t or get off the pot.

In short, this tactic lets her know that this is in fact nonnegotiable!

You have to admit, that asking her to pack and leave is not only being confident, but it finally shows some respect.... She may not see it now but if she does drive off and leave she has to see that you finally have enough respect for your self. 

I mean she is crying right now ...she knows how screwed up it really is...maybe she is coming out of the fog now that you confronted her and she shuts her pie hole and does the heavy lifting to save this marriage!!!!!

Unfortunate the cheater script dictates that your old lady will try one more time to see if that same guy is still in there and tries to work-him one more time.


----------



## Maricha75

Spooning... on the couch... when she could have easily gone into your bedroom with you... it's EXACTLY what it looks like.


----------



## the guy

Geeze page 27 already.....I'm sure you have heard this all before.

I guess I'm just reinforcing my own experiences.

BTW. My old lady went back into the room and started crying again once she came out the 1st time.

It was weird, in my case she cried for an hour , I had some breakast and by the time I had finished she came out and started the blame shifting so I started packing her crap.

She ran back into the bed room and cried for another hour....I yelled up..." I'M NOT PACKING ALL YOUR CRAP ON MY OWN SO IF YOUR CHOOSING THE OM THEN GET DOWN HERE AND HELP ME"....


I got the phuck you and she cried for another hour before she came out and submitted to the boundaries that were needed to save her marriage.
Its been 3 years now and those boundries are still in place and are being respected.

I only hope the same plays out for you...I really hope she chooses you and not the OW. But if she does you are now taking the steps in getting your life back and moving on to better things.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> Had a confrontation and the talk this morning.
> 
> First, didn't have a chance to talk with her yesterday as it was getting late and I dozed off in bed before the missus decided to show up.
> 
> So... I woke up early in the morning and no sign of her. Checked my phone and there's some apparently drunken messages from her which made of little sense. Tried to call her cell and heard it ringing inside the house. Went to the living room and there she was, as was her PT, sleeping and spooning on the couch. I woke them up and they both looked like deadbeats and like they were drunk. I kinda lost it and told the PT this was not appropriate and told her to leave. After she left wife started panicking and telling I'm taking this too serious. That they were just out 'for a few drinks' after shopping and decided to come crash at our place since it's closer and nothing else. I then basically told her this whole thing with her PT was straining our marriage and she can't see her anymore and that she can choose it's me or her. She became all teary and telling me that it's not fair and generally making no sense while we went on a few rounds about boundaries.
> 
> Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm. So now I'm the big monster. She's crying in the other room as I'm typing this... wtf?


Yea that is not a normal reaction. I would contact the PT again and inform her her services will no longer be required. You need to tell your wife to send a NO CONTACT letter. your Wife is definitley fogged up and this is a long term deal.


----------



## sandc

Maricha75 said:


> Spooning... on the couch... when she could have easily gone into your bedroom with you... it's EXACTLY what it looks like.


So you're a woman. You don't have a REALLY close girlfriend that you would spoon with all night? You're saying that girlfriends don't normally do that? <-- This is sarcasm.


----------



## Chaparral

I think it is very odd how you reacted to her sneaking out,
refusing to answer texts, calls

 going to sleep having no idea where she is or what may have happened to her.

Please tell me you are not used to her going out on GirlsNightOut. Other wise known as , Here I Am, Come and 
Get It!

Does your wife have an I-phone? I-phones and many smart phones can be hacked to retrieve deleted messages.

Also, I-phones have a find my phone feature that can let you track her where abouts with out letting her know you are doing it.


----------



## Maricha75

sandc said:


> So you're a woman. You don't have a REALLY close girlfriend that you would spoon with all night? You're saying that girlfriends don't normally do that? <-- This is sarcasm.


Oh HELL no! :rofl:
The only person I spoon with is my (wait for it....) *gasp* HUSBAND!!


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm. So now I'm the big monster. She's crying in the other room as I'm typing this... wtf?


 Do not settle for no answer. She must commit to you now before she has the chance to communicate with the other woman. Walk into the other room and tell her that you know that her relationship with the other woman crossed the line into outright cheating on you with her. Do not be afraid to call her bisexuel to her face. Tell her that she may not want to admit it, but that you do not need her to admit it because you know what you have been seeing with your own eyes.

Tell her that to save her marraige that you need to hear her commit to you right now and agree to full no contact and full transparency (all passwords etc.). Tell her that she needs to communicate with you and show remorse for her cheating. Tell her that you are not the monster here, that she is for cheating on you. Tell her that you are angry and hurt that she cheated on you with this other woman, and that she must personally prioritize you and your marraige back to the top of the heap. Tell her that you need to hear this right now. There should be no reason to even have to think about it for one minute. Tell her that not answering right now is not committing and will be treated as a refusal by her to commit to you, and you will file for divorce. She may try to call your bluff, so you must be willing to file for divorce and mean it.


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, a big confrontation while she was hungover/drunk probably won't have much of an affect. 

You need to make a complete list for the next one.


----------



## Chaparral

sandc said:


> So you're a woman. You don't have a REALLY close girlfriend that you would spoon with all night? You're saying that girlfriends don't normally do that? <-- This is sarcasm.


I can see where to close girlfriends might do this, drunk, limited space. Not wanting their high to be over. OTOH, if there is a spare bedroom, couch etc. well.................

And she could have gone to bed with hubby, but then who wants someone who has been drinking all night to lie down with them. That would have left the couch for PT. 

This is all inappropriate in any case. Sneaking out like a teenager and then refusing to answer the phone. Music to loud? Going straight to voicemail would mean phone was turned off.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm. So now I'm the big monster. She's crying in the other room as I'm typing this... wtf?


She stayed out all night, didn't return phone calls all day, made you frantic with worry, didn't return to the marital bed, came home and slept in an intimate position with another person. 
Whose the big monster?

While I see chaparrals point, the last part is what makes it bad. It makes no sense as an ALL DAY endeavor with no contact.

Tell me what spouse would be okay with that, who isn't in an open marriage, of any gender?

Glad you stepped up, don't let the tears, threats and blame shifting allow you to back down.





Caveat:
I knew a couple in an open marriage. Contrary to popular belief, they have boundaries as well. One of which involved people the other spouse does not like.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Talked with her a bit more. She said she forgot her phone on silent, which is a classic 'white lie' excuse for not answering. Her story is that she didn't want the PT to travel home alone that late (her place is further away) so she invited her to ours. According to her they were both too drunk, passed out while on the couch and she has no idea how they ended up in that position. Right. She swears nothing sexual has happened between them, yesterday or before that. So not admitting she cheated or anything.

Chapparal: I did not go to sleep but was wathing tv while waiting for her and fell asleep. Of course I was worried where she is but nothing really I could do at that time. No regular girls night outs. She has a Samsung Galaxy phone.


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## bryanp

She is in total damage control. Her story is totally unbelievable and you know it.


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> Talked with her a bit more. She said she forgot her phone on silent, which is a classic 'white lie' excuse for not answering. Her story is that she didn't want the PT to travel home alone that late (her place is further away) so she invited her to ours. According to her they were both too drunk, passed out while on the couch and she has no idea how they ended up in that position. Right. She swears nothing sexual has happened between them, yesterday or before that. So not admitting she cheated or anything.
> 
> Chapparal: I did not go to sleep but was wathing tv while waiting for her and fell asleep. Of course I was worried where she is but nothing really I could do at that time. No regular girls night outs. She has a Samsung Galaxy phone.


What did she say about giving up the PT and ending all contact? Is she going to do it?

If she resists or gives any excuse as why to continue, that will tell you everything you need to know.

She should know it's getting inappropriate and should be doing everything to make things right.


----------



## NewM

Whatever lie/excuse she tells you,you can't back down from your ultimatum.


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## bryanp

Oh, another huge flaw in her story is that she claims her cell phone was on silent. Are you going to tell me that she goes the whole night without once checking her messages? You know that this is not true.


----------



## sandc

CouldItBeSo said:


> Talked with her a bit more. She said she forgot her phone on silent, which is a classic 'white lie' excuse for not answering. Her story is that she didn't want the PT to travel home alone that late (her place is further away) so she invited her to ours. According to her they were both too drunk, passed out while on the couch and she has no idea how they ended up in that position. Right. She swears nothing sexual has happened between them, yesterday or before that. So not admitting she cheated or anything.
> 
> Chapparal: I did not go to sleep but was wathing tv while waiting for her and fell asleep. Of course I was worried where she is but nothing really I could do at that time. No regular girls night outs. She has a Samsung Galaxy phone.


At the very LEAST, the PT used your wife as her wingman at the bar last night. What bar or bars? Everyone checks for messages on their phone, why didn't she check hers? If it's not an affair between them it's them cruising for men. Something isn't right here and you've got to find it or else give in to her and let her do what she wants.


----------



## Chaparral

sandc said:


> At the very LEAST, the PT used your wife as her wingman at the bar last night. What bar or bars? Everyone checks for messages on their phone, why didn't she check hers? If it's not an affair between them it's them cruising for men. Something isn't right here and you've got to find it or else give in to her and let her do what she wants.


She had to sneak out of the house with out saying anything, was gone all night partying and did not think to check her phone for messages...............................ridiculus and absurd doesn't even begin to cover that BS.


----------



## Chaparral

camille said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just came across this post and I am sorry to read about your difficulties.
> 
> I am a trainee Counselling Psychologist and am currently conducting research on experiences of infidelity. If you would be willing to spare ten to fifteen minutes of your time to participate in my online study, I would be extremely grateful.
> 
> This research study is intended for individuals who have experienced infidelity whilst in an intimate relationship, be it married, cohabiting, engaged or dating for a minimum of 1 year. Even if you are no longer with this particular partner, you may still participate.
> 
> To take part in this study, click the following link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/relationship-experiences
> 
> You will not be required to provide your name or email and therefore your identity will remain completely anonymous. Furthermore, all of the information that you provide will be kept strictly confidential and private.
> 
> Thank you very much for your time.
> 
> Camille


But your isp will be known.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

sandc said:


> At the very LEAST, the PT used your wife as her wingman at the bar last night. What bar or bars? Everyone checks for messages on their phone, why didn't she check hers? If it's not an affair between them it's them cruising for men. Something isn't right here and you've got to find it or else give in to her and let her do what she wants.


She said she didn't realise it was on silent so she forgot to check her phone. I know it sounds lame. She also swore there was no one else just her and the PT sitting on a table chatting (in a local bar not so far from our place) and didn't notice the time go by. She has never been the type to cruise for men in bars. I've known her since we were both 18.


----------



## badbane

spooning on the couch how many friends do you know that spoon on the couch. That is a romantic position. I mean we have personal space Americans have about a three foot halo. Anyone you let close you like then there is the one foot halo. That is the place you only let best friends in for moments. anyone you let be one foot away from you and you are an Amercian. They are likely the person you are shacking up with. the PT needs to be let go. If your wife needs a friend she can go find someone else other than a pt.
Your wife shouldn't be this close to anyone man or woman. And why is your wife sneaking out to bars when she has responsibilities at home. 
The whole things reeks of Affair and I think it time you start not trusting a word that comes out of your wife's mouth. 
How does shopping turn into getting sloshed? Did you see what they bought while shopping. I mean did you actually see the items they purchased while "shopping?" I am sure if they spent the afternoon shopping there should be a lot of junk in the car or shopping bags. If she didn't buy anything then going shopping was a lie and they had every intention of going to that bar and not telling you. Your wife spooning on the couch with the PT that is your wife without inhibitions. Without that little voice saying. This isn't a good idea what if I get caught. Last night was a mistake and if you don't end this one they will likely not make again.


----------



## sandc

CouldItBeSo said:


> She said she didn't realise it was on silent so she forgot to check her phone. I know it sounds lame. She also swore there was no one else just her and the PT sitting on a table chatting (in a local bar not so far from our place) and didn't notice the time go by. She has never been the type to cruise for men in bars. I've known her since we were both 18.


Has she ever been the type to treat you this way? :scratchhead:

Who cares what she was. What is she now?


----------



## bryanp

I am sure you believe she was never the type to come home drunk and spend the night on the couch spooning with her girlfriend while you were asleep upstairs in your bed where she was supposed to be. I am sorry but you are still are in such denial. You really believe she spent hours and hours at a bar drinking and it was just two of them but the time went by so fast it never occurred to her to check her cell phone..............Oh please. She is acting like a single woman whether you wish to believe this or not.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bryanp said:


> I am sure you believe she was never the type to come home drunk and spend the night on the couch spooning with her girlfriend while you were asleep upstairs in your bed where she was supposed to be. I am sorry but you are still are in such denial. You really believe she spent hours and hours at a bar drinking and it was just two of them but the time went by so fast it never occurred to her to check her cell phone..............Oh please. She is acting like a single woman whether you wish to believe this or not.


I didn't say I believe her, just rehearsing what she told me. She actually had checked her cell later and sent drunken texts while I was already asleep. It's just hard to believe the person you've known for so long could change so much. I'm sure I'm in denial it's been just two weeks here against ten years I've known her.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> Did you see what they bought while shopping. I mean did you actually see the items they purchased while "shopping?" I am sure if they spent the afternoon shopping there should be a lot of junk in the car or shopping bags. If she didn't buy anything then going shopping was a lie and they had every intention of going to that bar and not telling you. Your wife spooning on the couch with the PT that is your wife without inhibitions. Without that little voice saying. This isn't a good idea what if I get caught. Last night was a mistake and if you don't end this one they will likely not make again.


They both actually had shopping bags. Shirts, some sportswear (like a running suit), underwear... Didn't look what was in the PT's bags but she took them with her when she left. They were not driving obviously it's illegal to drive while drunk.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

sandc said:


> Has she ever been the type to treat you this way? :scratchhead:
> 
> Who cares what she was. *What is she now*?


That's what I'm trying to figure. I'm going to have a new chat with her tomorrow when she's survived the hangover and is less grumpy.


----------



## bandit.45

CouldItBeSo said:


> That's what I'm trying to figure. I'm going to have a new chat with her tomorrow when she's survived the hangover and is less grumpy.


There it is. 

The truth. 

You're scared of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

bryanp said:


> You know that this is not true.


Yes, my wife pulled this crap. Funny how texts were answered before and after my call. Of course, my call wasn't returned until hours later, you know, because the phone was "on silent." 

The next excuse was " well I noticed AFTER I checked texts." Until I had access to records, I had to "pretend" I believed her story. Yes, it was pretty ugly, for her, on DDAY2.

If you have access to her phone records, it is easy enough to see if she is telling the truth. Still doesn't explain why she NEVER checked in.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bandit.45 said:


> There it is.
> 
> The truth.
> 
> You're scared of her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> No it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


Right, you are catering to her needs. You have been stressing for two weeks, but you'll wait one more day, because she is grumpy, she might resent you and she is hung over. Oh and now she has a headache. Later she will be nauseous. Now, you'll give her a few more hours to concoct a story YOU believe, so she can once again say "you are overreacting harrumph" and hide it even deeper.


Do what you feel is best, but the way you write, the hand wringing and the constant excuses does make it look like you are scared of your wife.


----------



## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> No it's getting late and she isn't that *cooperative* while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


CIBS, you are not about to enter a negotiation. If you want to end this affair, you have to stand up and tell her the way it's going to be if she wants to remain married to you.

Are you prepared to do that?


----------



## the guy

bandit.45 said:


> There it is.
> 
> The truth.
> 
> You're scared of her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sound like more negotiations for a issue that should be nonnegotiable.


----------



## the guy

CouldItBeSo said:


> No it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


So, when has she been cooperative since this whole thing started.

Strike now while she is weak.

Dude it would have been one thing to wake you up and let you know that the two of them are home and will be cuddling down stairs and let you join them, but dude you didn't even know she was home!!!!!

What is their to discuss? what she is taking with her now and coming back later? or more negotiations with term in sharing your wife with someone else?


----------



## the guy

Until you push her away she will never think twice or second guess her choices. 

You just caught your wife spooning with her affair partner and you want to discuss things?

The funny thing about chicks is when their guys stand up for them selves the wetter they get. 

Until she can commit to and confirm NC with OW ...you just can't compete. So again what is there to discuss? You sir are in a lose lose position. YOU CAN'T COMPETE so stop trying, let her go and make this affair as inconvenient and as uncomfortable as possible!


----------



## bryanp

Another things seems odd to me. You said she spent the night on the couch with the girlfriend and when you came downstairs they were sleeping and spooning each other. She then states that she was too drunk to remember spooning her at all????? Do you really really believe this? I can only conclude that your wife thinks you are a complete moron to believe such a story.

By the way I assume that they were fully dressed when you woke them up spooning. Correct?


----------



## BobSimmons

funny how's it's alright for women to spoon each other or hug eyes closed etc..gonna do a Bryan and ask, if the roles were reversed, wife came home and husband was asleep on the couch, spooning his male PT, the thread would be absolutely unanimous


----------



## azteca1986

BobSimmons said:


> funny how's it's alright for women to spoon each other or hug eyes closed etc..gonna do a Bryan and ask, if the roles were reversed, wife came home and husband was asleep on the couch, spooning his male PT, the thread would be absolutely unanimous


I've been drunk with my mates a number of times. If I ever spooned on the couch with one of them, I'd have to accept (with some other things) that we were more than just friends. There's really no other plausible conclusion.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Hey Trickster. still think this whole thing is just as innocent as new-fallen snow?


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> No it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


I will forgive you for panicking, but I will not forgive you the denial. You are TERRIFIED of where you know this is heading. 

The only way to face it now is to deal with it head on. Do NOT wait for your wife to be "in a better place" to have the discussion. This is a war for your marriage. Why would you give her time to concoct better stories, UNLESS THE FICTION YOU KNOW IS COMING IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR?

Take the advice of General Patton: NEVER let the enemy decide the time and place for battle.

You wake her up, make her sit up, and tell her your conditions. Demand answers. Make her squirm until she outs this thing so you at least have the real, honest lay of the land. 

Or let me give it to you, which I've been saying since my very first post: YOUR WIFE IS BISEXUAL. SHE IS CHEATING.

You have a simple choice now: learn to live with it, and prepare to share your wife, or TAKE A STAND. You are past the point of no return, my friend.


----------



## Idyit

30 pages and closing in on 450 posts. For the love of God would you please confront her?!? If I had an extra set laying around I would lend them to you.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Idyit said:


> 30 pages and closing in on 450 posts. For the love of God would you please confront her?!? If I had an extra set laying around I would lend them to you.


From your mouth to God's ears.


----------



## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I kinda lost it and told the PT this was not appropriate and told her to leave.


What did the PT say during this whole scene?


----------



## bfree

CIBS,

I believe that your wife is in a relationship with this woman. Whether it is sexual or emotional is not clear. But even if she is just a friend now you know she is a toxic friend and she needs to be out of your wife's life if your marriage is going to continue in a healthy way. You have taken the first step toward rescuing your marriage. Do not retreat now. Push forward until your objective is attained. This relationship with the PT must end and now. The ball is in your court and you need to keep it there until the game is over.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> No it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.


 You had an excuse yesterday for not confronting and she actually went out with the other woman. Stop making excuses. Stop always trying to pick the perfect time when your wife will always have a reason for it not being the right time. She is cheating on you dude. She had a choice of who to spend the night with last night and it was not you even though you were right there in the same house. You thought something was going on before you caught her naked with the other woman on top of her. You thought something was going on before you saw them hug. Now you saw them sleeping together right in your own home. My gosh what does it take for you to act? Every time that you stand by and do nothing, her lack of respect for you grows stronger, and the more chance she will pick the other woman. Right now she is getting coaching and encouragement from the other woman on what to do as you stand by and let this continue. She and the other woman are a team against you, when your wife should be on your team always. Instead of worrying about her being grumpy, she should be worried about you being outraged and angry.

Confront now, even if you have to wake her up. Tell her that you know 100% that she is cheating and that you do not need her to agree for you to expect her to pick you her husband over the other woman. That if she cared the way she should for you as her husband, she should be willing to lose the other woman just because the other woman is now interfering with the marraige.


----------



## InlandTXMM

One thing BS's don't understand is how, deep down, the WS is BEGGING for them to break it up because they CAN'T do it themselves.

She's in the fog, navigating the vessel of your marriage toward the rocky shore. It's going aground without quick, decisive action. His wife knows this.

And the Captain is hiding down below. 

She will respect you like CRAZY if you fight the good fight for your marriage. Not immediately, because you are telling her "no, sorry, you can't have that". But she will respect you for it.

GET THE CAPTAIN ON DECK. The shore is in sight.


----------



## Maricha75

BobSimmons said:


> funny how's it's alright for women to spoon each other or hug eyes closed etc..gonna do a Bryan and ask, if the roles were reversed, wife came home and husband was asleep on the couch, spooning his male PT, the thread would be absolutely unanimous


Dude! This woman right here said "HELL NO!" Even *I* recognize it for what it is!

For the love of God, CIBS, just lay it all out for her! What's she gonna do? Lock you in a shed for doubting her??


----------



## InlandTXMM

It boils down to this:

He is afraid to issue the ultimatum: her or me. He already knows the answer that's coming.


----------



## NewM

He already gave her the ultimatum,now he must stay strong and stick with it no matter what lies/excuses she makes up.


----------



## Maricha75

NewM said:


> He already gave her the ultimatum,now he must stay strong and stick with it no matter what lies/excuses she makes up.


Oh, but didn't you see? It does no good talking to her when she's drunk/hung over!


----------



## InlandTXMM

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, but didn't you see? It does no good talking to her when she's drunk/hung over!


Nor when he first interrupted their oiled up sessions, nor when she said she'd just take the rub-downs to the PT's place, nor when she snuck out of the house to go out with the PT, nor at any waking moment together, meal together, quiet moment together. Nor any time via telephone when they weren't together....


... OP, see what you are doing?


----------



## Shaggy

At best the PT is clearly grooming her for a relationship with her, but it hasn't gone all the way YET.

At worst it has gone all the way and your wife will be seeking a way as soon as possible to reach out and comfort the PT.


----------



## BobSimmons

azteca1986 said:


> I've been drunk with my mates a number of times. If I ever spooned on the couch with one of them, I'd have to accept (with some other things) that we were more than just friends. There's really no other plausible conclusion.


It doesn't matter how drunk I've been you wake up and you're conscious of your surroundings and who's next to you. Never in a million years would one whilst sleeping start spooning their brother, sister etc. It just shows the full extent of the emotional level the two were at when they did this.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Wow, I don't know where all this rage and blaming here comes from. It almost feels like I was the one who's cheating. Maybe some of you missed my post from Saturday five (!) pages ago where I confront her and give an ultimatum. Here are the parts:


CouldItBeSo said:


> *Had a confrontation and the talk this morning.* <snip> I then basically told her this whole thing with her PT was straining our marriage and *she can't see her anymore and that she can choose it's me or her*.


The only thing to discuss is the NC letter how and when. She is not admitting that anything sexual has happened between them and I have no proof to show that she's lying.


----------



## Chaparral

Your doing fine. Posters have your best intersts at heart. It can get a little intsnse around here. Its your marriage, your battle, and your call. Good luck and be strong.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bryanp said:


> Another things seems odd to me. You said she spent the night on the couch with the girlfriend and when you came downstairs they were sleeping and spooning each other. She then states that she was too drunk to remember spooning her at all????? Do you really really believe this? I can only conclude that your wife thinks you are a complete moron to believe such a story.
> 
> By the way I assume that they were fully dressed when you woke them up spooning. Correct?


Her exact words were 'I have no idea how we ended up in that position'. People do stupid things while drunk but it sounds like a lame excuse. They were dressed minus jacket and shoes.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Will_Kane said:


> What did the PT say during this whole scene?


She mumbled along the lines that she was sorry and didn't mean to crash here and was generally embarrassed.


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> Her exact words were 'I have no idea how we ended up in that position'. People do stupid things while drunk but it sounds like a lame excuse. They were dressed minus jacket and shoes.


I think how they ended up spooning is neither here nor there. The fact even though you were uncomfortable with what was going on, that she would bring her back to your house, then not come up to bed is worrying. Not to mention running out the house, shopping then going out afterwards without informing you beforehand.

Still haven't heard what she's said about ending contact with the PT?


----------



## InlandTXMM

I am getting after you, because I am trying to reach you. When it happened to me, I felt all alone in the world and that made me not want to deal with it.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Maybe some of you missed my post from Saturday five (!) pages ago where I confront her and give an ultimatum.


 No we did not miss your ultimatum where you “basically told her this whole thing with her PT was straining our marriage and she can't see her anymore and that she can choose it's me or her.” What you seemed to be missing was that fact that after you gave her this ultimatum, she never told you that she picked you. Instead you told us that “Although it seems like she's agreeing she's not talking to me atm” and “it's getting late and she isn't that cooperative while having a headache. Tomorrow he has no excuses not to discuss.” Picking you is an active effort where she clearly communicates her decision and where she discusses such a decision with you. Instead she is telling you that you are wrong and that you are a monster for doing this. That is not picking you. 

We are all concerned about this because she is acting right out of the cheaters script here. She has not admitted to anything and has agreed to nothing. This is what all unremorseful cheaters do. As time goes by, she will gaslight you and cause you to question what you saw and know to be true. She will try to alter reality in your mind and get you to question yourself so that you will back down. She will do this while ignoring answering the ultimatum and actually specifically picking you. This is the typical cheaters MO in such situations, and we are just warning you of this, so that you do not fall into this common cheaters trap.



CouldItBeSo said:


> The only thing to discuss is the NC letter how and when.


 No you need more than that. The NC letter comes after she looks you in the eyes and tells you to your face that she picks you, agrees to full no contact forever, and agrees to full transparency (all passwords, etc.) without complaint. You need to require her to do this, so that you can quote it back to her in the coming months as you enforce NC.

One more thing. Has she in fact gone NC with the other woman since you gave her the ultimatum? The answer to that will tell you a lot. 



CouldItBeSo said:


> She is not admitting that anything sexual has happened between them and I have no proof to show that she's lying.


 The gaslighting has begun. If this were a male friend you would not be saying this. My wife has never done anything with another woman like you are describing your wife doing with this other woman. It is not normal. She is just trying to confuse you. Tell her that even if you are wrong, that there is more than enough evidence for you as a reasonable person to question her faithfulness with this other woman and that alone is enough to demand a complete end to the relationship. You should not be asked to have to live with doubting her faithfulness for the sake of this other woman.

Tell her that regardless of what she wants to call the relationship, you are still demanding the full no contact and full transparency if she wants to remain in the marriage. That whatever she wants to call it, this other woman has been allowed to replace you as the primary person in her life, and that you will not remain in a marriage where she does not honor her wedding vows to put you before all others. Tell her that she ignored your prior warnings that you where uncomfortable with the relationship and that there can no longer be any compromising measures, now that lines have been crossed.


----------



## Entropy3000

If she was given an ultimatum and did not cease and desist her actions immediately she chose to ignore you and is selecting her lady friend over you.

One does not give an ultimatum unless they intend to take action. It is like pulling a weapon and not be willing to use it. Both are worse than not doing anything at all.


----------



## Acabado

This is the moment when you have to snoop like a pro. They will conoct stories (if the worse already happened), they will discuss how to mantain whetever relationship hey have. Let's asume for a while it's not, in her minds, an affair, but a friendship. Even she is in the fog/denial about what their relationship is they can't simply talk as if nothing happened after last night confrontation, they will talk about it in deep, their feelings...
You need to tape her (VAR) or to get a hold to the texts they send each other. No matter how.


----------



## TDSC60

They are gonna take it underground now. You have to step up on your spying for a while at least.

Make sure she understands what NC means. No calls or texts to see "how are you doing?" If the PT calls or texts, she is not to answer and is to tell you immediately.

Prediction - PT is going to show up at your house while you are at work in a day or week from now and your wife will let her in just so they can "catch up and so she can make sure that the PT knows that this is all YOUR fault and your wife is sorry about it". Or they will "accidentally" meet while shopping and go for coffee together just to catch up. This is not over yet.


----------



## weightlifter

GPS the car. Brick house security dot com.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

He doesn't have to step up anything.

The VAR, Cameras, and spying didn't work because she is on guard or getting help. There is no sense in wasting anymore money. 

Bring down the hammer or live with your wife liking a woman, it is your choice.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Sadly, I bet we're still here on Wednesday, still telling him to put his foot down, him still waiting for her to be "in the right mind" to "discuss" this.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

She wrote and emailed the NC letter today. She has not been in contact with the PT since she left our place. She gave all passwords etc. willingly. We agreed she is going to join a gym tomorrow since she can't train with her PT anymore.


----------



## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> She wrote and emailed the NC letter today. She has not been in contact with the PT since she left our place. She gave all passwords etc. willingly. We agreed she is going to join a gym tomorrow since she can't train with her PT anymore.


I think that was a very wise move.

Good for you.

Now watch and lisen to her like a hawk.

VAR in the car like ASAP and you will know if she is telling you the truth...


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> She wrote and emailed the NC letter today. She has not been in contact with the PT since she left our place. She gave all passwords etc. willingly. We agreed she is going to join a gym tomorrow since she can't train with her PT anymore.


You said that you have weights at home,can't she train with you?Use it as together time.


----------



## Shaggy

Now you need to discover and kill off the contact which IS coming. The PT and her are buddies, they will be connecting and chatting behind your back. Wait and watch because it will happen.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> GPS the car. Brick house security dot com.





happyman64 said:


> I think that was a very wise move.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> Now watch and lisen to her like a hawk.
> 
> VAR in the car like ASAP and you will know if she is telling you the truth...


I think this was suggested already but unfortunately she goes to work by bicycle.


----------



## Shaggy

Can you track her phone?


----------



## Entropy3000

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think this was suggested already but unfortunately she goes to work by bicycle.


LOL. You are awesome. GPS her bike then.

Use find my iPhone. ... no iPhone. Get her one.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

NewM said:


> You said that you have weights at home,can't she train with you?Use it as together time.


She is not lifting weights. There is instructed aerobics/cardio and yoga classes at the gym she is joining.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Shaggy said:


> Can you track her phone?





Entropy3000 said:


> LOL. You are awesome. GPS her bike then.
> 
> Use find my iPhone. ... no iPhone. Get her one.


Lol I guess I could hide a var under the bench? She has a Samsung Galaxy phone no Apples in our household.


----------



## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think this was suggested already but unfortunately she goes to work by bicycle.


Does she go shopping, bar hopping or to the gym on her bike too?

DO you guys live in manhattan?


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> She wrote and emailed the NC letter today. She has not been in contact with the PT since she left our place. She gave all passwords etc. willingly. We agreed she is going to join a gym tomorrow since she can't train with her PT anymore.


 :smthumbup:Good job. Well done. Few handle it as well as you have so early on. Be ready for her to be angry at you. Stay calm but firm in your resolve. If she sticks to the cheaters script, in a few months she will probably ask for you to allow reduced contact with the other woman and she will say it is "just to make sure that the other woman is OK"; you need to say absolutely not, firmly and with a little anger in your voice that she would even think to ask such a thing.


----------



## 3putt

CouldItBeSo said:


> Lol I guess I could hide a var under the bench? She has a Samsung Galaxy phone no Apples in our household.


See if you can get a chance to install this on her phone when she isn't looking. Check out the systems requirements first though.

SpectorSoft - eBLASTER | mobile for Android – Home Users


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> There is instructed aerobics/cardio and yoga classes at the gym she is joining.


 Let her know that she is to not talk to the other woman if she shows up to this gym or anywhere else. Tell her that not only is it OK to be rude to the other woman, but that it is expected of her if it is needed to keep full no contact.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

happyman64 said:


> Does she go shopping, bar hopping or to the gym on her bike too?
> 
> DO you guys live in manhattan?


People bicycle in Manhattan? We go to foodstore etc. together by car but other than those kind of heavy errands she can carry on her bike yes. Like clothes, it's not that hard...


----------



## Chaparral

Keep close watch, many predators at gyms, yoga etc. If what we see hereis anything to go by. Gym romances rank right up with teachers and doctor-nurse problems.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> Lol I guess I could hide a var under the bench? She has a Samsung Galaxy phone no Apples in our household.


What a coincidence... my husband has a Samsung Galaxy. He has GPS on it. Get it done.

FYI, HE put it on HIS and mine BOTH...even BEFORE any infidelity came up.


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Lol I guess I could hide a var under the bench? She has a Samsung Galaxy phone no Apples in our household.


Try these,they all are free:
How to track and control Samsung Galaxy devices remotely | How To - CNET
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.sogeti.android.gpstracker&hl=en
Location Of - Samsung Galaxy S Plus GPS Tracker


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> Keep close watch, many predators at gyms, yoga etc. If what we see hereis anything to go by. Gym romances rank right up with teachers and doctor-nurse problems.


It's actually a women only gym she is joining.


----------



## InlandTXMM

WELL DONE. So glad I am wrong.

I am wondering though, what she has confessed to doing? What more don't you know? It seems like there may be rug-sweeping going on: "Okay, I'll behave from now on." 

Has she given you details of this relationship? What has she revealed about where she went with this woman? What she was doing? What she was feeling? 

You have to know these things, as hard as they are to hear, or I cam promise you, the uncertainties will eat you alive. Your imagination will never let this just lay there unanswered.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I just read this "*It's actually a women only gym she is joining*." after I posted the below. Now I understand...

CouldItBeSo,

I'm just wondering. How come you don't workout with your wife? Do you two do anything together other than the regular domestic functions, grocery shhopping, family functions, etc.? I'm not saying that the PT is going to show up at the gym she joined, but it's obviouosly a possability. I'm not saying that your wife with begin a relationship with someone else at the gym, but this two is a possibility. 

Would you even consider joining the same gym that she's about to go to? If so, do you think your wife would have a problem with you joining the same gym? I have to wonder(someone on TAM) if this would be a problem for her. If it is a problem, then maybe you should start to wonder also.

Who knows, you tell her that you want to join that same gym, you get a week long trial pass. Show up every day and walk the treadmill for an hour. What's the worst thing that could happen, you get you blood pressure to drop a little, you loose a little weight. Maybe after some time(at the gym) you and the Mrs will make a new connection and start building from there on something you have in common. Just a thought. I really do hope this is is the end of your problem with her X-PT.


----------



## Shaggy

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's actually a women only gym she is joining.


No no no.

This means you can't go with her. Didn't this sound like a nice setup for her and the OW PT?

And just a day after confrontation.

Frankly,I smell a rat here.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Maricha75 said:


> What a coincidence... my husband has a Samsung Galaxy. He has GPS on it. Get it done.
> 
> FYI, HE put it on HIS and mine BOTH...even BEFORE any infidelity came up.





NewM said:


> Try these,they all are free:
> How to track and control Samsung Galaxy devices remotely | How To - CNET
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.sogeti.android.gpstracker&hl=en
> Location Of - Samsung Galaxy S Plus GPS Tracker


Thanks I'm going to look into these. I also got the other link to spy apps posted earlier in this thread.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Dang, I never even thought about a women-only gym being unsafe for the marriage. Yet with a possible bisexual wife, this is just as bad as throwing her at Ladies' Night at the local nightclub.

I agree with GROUND - why can't you turn the exercise into some time to bond as a couple?


----------



## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's actually a women only gym she is joining.


Your wife's AP is female. You won't be able to join this gym. Can you see any problem here?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's actually a women only gym she is joining.


Lol you can't be serious. Your wife cheats on you with another woman so you have her join an all-female gym????


----------



## BobSimmons

honestly I think he's winding you all up


----------



## LoriC

WorkingOnMe said:


> Lol you can't be serious. Your wife cheats on you with another woman so you have her join an all-female gym????


Since he will not be able to go to the gym who wants to take bets with me on the PT going to the gym with her?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.

The reason she chose women only gym (and I understand her) is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.


----------



## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.
> 
> The reason *she chose women only gym* (and I understand her) is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.


... because you can't be there but her AP can. Your WW supposedly went NC a matter of hours ago and then she suggests this and you agree?


----------



## NewM

How much time are you two spending together,you could get her to do some weight lifting with you,get her that squat booty.It is much better for your relationship if you two are training together rather then that time being away from each other.She can still go to gym some days while also training with you some.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Besides, she could ALSO join any gym my wife goes to. I am not going to join her gym even if I could. I still have to go to work which is the same time she is going to be at the gym.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

azteca1986 said:


> ... because you can't be there but her AP can. Your WW supposedly went NC a matter of hours ago and then she suggests this and you agree?


THe PT could also join any other gym she joins. I can't be at any gym she join because I'm at work. She will go there straight from work to save time.


----------



## 3putt

CouldItBeSo said:


> THe PT could also join any other gym she joins. I can't be at any gym she join because I'm at work. She will go there straight from work to save time.


The way I see it, gyms should be eliminated completely. She can get some equipment and work out at home. She has proven herself completely untrustworthy in that type of environment.


----------



## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> THe PT could also join any other gym she joins. I can't be at any gym she join because I'm at work. She will go there straight from work to save time.


Perhaps going to the gym at this time in your R isn't optimal.

When you laid down the law and forced her to go NC, how did she take it?


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.
> 
> The reason she chose women only gym (and I understand her) is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.


She could give you *100* reasons. It still doesn't change the fact that at a WOMEN'S ONLY gym, you can't go there. I'd say this is unbelievable... but it really isn't.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

NewM said:


> How much time are you two spending together,you could get her to do some weight lifting with you,get her that squat booty.It is much better for your relationship if you two are training together rather then that time being away from each other.She can still go to gym some days while also training with you some.


We are spending almost all time together minus hobbies. She is not lifting weights. Her training is her own thing I can't go and demand she change it so I can follow her everywhere.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Maricha75 said:


> She could give you *100* reasons. It still doesn't change the fact that at a WOMEN'S ONLY gym, you can't go there. I'd say this is unbelievable... but it really isn't.


Whether it is a mixed or ladies only gym it's not an issue to me. I'm not going to join her which is not even possible due to my work.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> We are spending almost all time together minus hobbies. She is not lifting weights. Her training is her own thing I can't go and demand she change it so I can follow her everywhere.


Uhhh... ya you can. At this point, after discovering infidelity...oh, excuse me, that's right, she never copped to that, did she? 

Anyway, at this point? You absolutely can demand that she change these things. You are coming up with *excuses* as to why you don't *want* to do it... not *reasons* why it would be impossible. Newsflash: It's not impossible. You just don't WANT to do it.


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> Whether it is a mixed or ladies only gym it's not an issue to me. I'm not going to join her which is not even possible due to my work.


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Dude, it's not even ABOUT whether you CAN or not... it's about the OPTION to just "show up" being there. C'mon now, I know you know this!


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.
> 
> The reason she chose women only gym (and I understand her) is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.


Oh come on. She already told you she has no temptation for other men.

Yet for women...

And why, with the marriage on the line, are you both so eager to pretend like nothing is needed here but a change in scenery? How could a remorseful spouse even THINK about continuing to up her sex rank with this much chaos under foot?


----------



## the guy

Whats going on with all this gym membership business? hell ya she needs a new gym and if NC is confirmed then there is no way OW can find what gym your old lady joined.

From were I'm sitting its all about transparency and account ability on her part and the heavy lift on her part to reestablish some trust.


----------



## InlandTXMM

azteca1986 said:


> Perhaps going to the gym at this time in your R isn't optimal.
> 
> When you laid down the law and forced her to go NC, how did she take it?


I notice all of those kind of inquiries are going unanswered. I'm starting to feel strung along.

The NC letter - fine. BUT WHAT HAPPENED? What are you forgiving? How far did she betray you? Does she have romantic or sexual feelings for the PT? Did they mess around sexually?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

the guy said:


> Whats going on with all this gym membership business? hell ya she needs a new gym and if NC is confirmed then there is no way OW can find what gym your old lady joined.
> 
> From were I'm sitting its all about transparency and account ability on her part and the heavy lift on her part to reestablish some trust.


That's actually a very good point. If they are going to the same gym that means NC has been broken already. Doesn't matter if it's ladies only gym or not.

Edit: for clarity: we _both _know I can't join her due to my work.


----------



## BobSimmons

InlandTXMM said:


> *I notice all of those kind of inquiries are going unanswered. I'm starting to feel strung along.*
> 
> The NC letter - fine. BUT WHAT HAPPENED? What are you forgiving? How far did she betray you? Does she have romantic or sexual feelings for the PT? Did they mess around sexually?


Really? You think?


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> That's actually a very good point. If they are going to the same gym that means NC has been broken already. Doesn't matter if it's ladies only gym or not.


 Yes that is what it would mean to most people, but not to a cheater like your wife. If your wife can look you in the eye and tell you with a straight face that the other woman and her were just friends, then your wife telling you that the the other woman joining the same gym was just a coincidence should be treated as a given.



CouldItBeSo said:


> Edit: for clarity: we _both _know I can't join her due to my work.


 Just for clarity: we are not asking you to join the same gym, we are asking you to be able to do a surprise visit, which you both know that you cannot do to female only gym.


----------



## bryanp

I hope it works for you but this sounds almost too easy. It sounds like she did not put up much of a fight and now she suggests a woman's only gym. She must have admitted to something to write the NO Contact letter. What was it? I can't put my finger on it but it feels like something is not quite right. Good luck anyway.


----------



## LoriC

bryanp said:


> I hope it works for you but this sounds almost too easy. It sounds like she did not put up much of a fight and now she suggests a woman's only gym. She must have admitted to something to write the NO Contact letter. What was it? I can't put my finger on it but it feels like something is not quite right. Good luck anyway.


I agree with you. She is most likely going underground and did the NC letter to appease him. And the OP never did tell us exactly what she admitted to.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> I agree with you. She is most likely going underground and did the NC letter to appease him. And the OP never did tell us exactly what she admitted to.





InlandTXMM said:


> I notice all of those kind of inquiries are going unanswered. I'm starting to feel strung along.
> 
> The NC letter - fine. BUT WHAT HAPPENED? What are you forgiving? How far did she betray you? Does she have romantic or sexual feelings for the PT? Did they mess around sexually?


Tbh, all I see is two pages of inquiries about gyms.

What am I forgiving? She is not admitting to anything sexual or romantic between them happening. Hasn't changed her story from Saturday. Insists they were only good close friends. The sneaking out and getting drunk she admits of course but I hardly consider that cheating. So until I have a smoking gun I can only assume.


----------



## bfree

coulditbeso said:


> tbh, all i see is two pages of inquiries about gyms.
> 
> What am i forgiving? She is not admitting to anything sexual or romantic between them happening. Hasn't changed her story from saturday. Insists they were only good close friends. The sneaking out and getting drunk she admits of course but i hardly consider that cheating. So until i have a smoking gun i can only assume.


polygraph


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I wish you luck CIBS, because at this point that's all you'll really be relying on, luck.

Take care.


----------



## 3putt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I wish you luck CIBS, because at this point that's all you'll really be relying on, luck.
> 
> Take care.


Yeah, this is pretty painful to watch unfold.

CIBS, if you do nothing else for yourself, get these books and crawl into them.

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

No More Mr. Nice Guy!: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books

Your WW will never learn to respect you until YOU learn to stand up to her and lay down the law on what's acceptable in your marriage and what is not.

You're being freight-trained, pal. Pull your head out of your ass and stand up for yourself.

Whew


----------



## TDSC60

CouldItBeSo said:


> Tbh, all I see is two pages of inquiries about gyms.
> 
> What am I forgiving? She is not admitting to anything sexual or romantic between them happening. Hasn't changed her story from Saturday. Insists they were only good close friends. The sneaking out and getting drunk she admits of course but I hardly consider that cheating. So until I have a smoking gun I can only assume.


Your wife sneaks out of the house without telling you. She is gone almost all night long and will not respond to your calls or texts. The next morning you wake to find your wife and her PT curled up on the couch together. They both look guilty as hell when you wake them up. From your other posts it appears that your wife was spending more time with her "really good friend" than she was with you.

I would say you are forgiving a lot!!!!!


----------



## InlandTXMM

This is a slow-motion train wreck about to happen. Six months or less from now, I am really afraid OP will be back here saying, "You guys were right."

OP, the LAST thing - the very last thing - I wanted to believe was that my wife was capable of betraying me. She's the best thing that ever happened to me. She's still the most important person in my life. She was and is a great mother, loving wife, and wonderful partner. I never believed, even for a moment, that I would find my marriage in jeopardy over infidelity, because I just knew that my wife wasn't "one of those".

And yet, in the end, she was.

Ignoring this will not make it go away, I promise you.

But as we are reaching post # 525, I see you still prefer the illusion.

I wish you the best.


----------



## 3putt

Sen'Jin said:


> I came here because I thought this story was going to be close to my own. It isn't. I have spent over an hour reading this and I have come to the conclusion that this is just a story some crazy nut is feeding you people. I would suggest that people go back to the beginning of this novel and read it over. This guy has a retort and a response to every single bit of advice people are giving him. If that doesn't say snow-job I don't know what does. Female PT spooning with his wife and a topless massage that he walks out on. *All of this crazy stuff going on in the span of a week and you all buy it?! LOL Stop giving him advice and help people that really need it.*


This is actually pretty mild compared to what has been seen on these boards. We have to assume it's true, until we have a legitimate reason to believe otherwise.

It is what it is.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> What am I forgiving? She is not admitting to anything sexual or romantic between them happening. Hasn't changed her story from Saturday. Insists they were only good close friends. The sneaking out and getting drunk she admits of course but I hardly consider that cheating. So until I have a smoking gun I can only assume.


 Gaslighting is now complete. She now has you questioning what you saw and believing that what you saw was nothing. By her not admitting anything, by her seeing that you are questioning what you saw, you can assume that she will again resume contact. If caught she will just tell you that you were unfair so she felt no need to comply and that your unreasonableness forced her underground. This is not over, you can bank on it.

Stop questioning what you saw and know to be true. From now on, you act confident with your wife that what she did was cheating. If if the gaslighting has given you doubts, do not let her know it. Be confident and strong in your conviction that her being naked with the other woman being on top of her, and staying out with the other woman all night only to come home and spoon her was innocent. She is working on weakening your resolve. Do not let her succeed. All cheaters try to make it like you have to prove it to them where they cannot not deny, and that what you believe is not important and does not matter. Reminder her that what you believe does matter to you and that you will act on it. Sorry that you are here. You did nothing to deserve what is coming next.


----------



## Thoreau

CouldItBeSo said:


> She is not admitting to anything sexual or romantic between them happening. Hasn't changed her story from Saturday. Insists they were only good close friends.
> .


Omg wtf hhicbt!!! Just imagine. ...the PT was a man....with a penis. Would the nekkid massage and the spooning be acceptable? If it were reversed and you were oiled up and rubbed by a dude, then snuck out of the house, ignored your wifes attempts to contact you all night, then was caught spooning your hairy muscular man friend the next morning, would this be ok because there was no "concrete evidence"???

"Honey sweety dear....I just don't know how his pee-pee ended up lodged in my rear-end". 

UFB.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

So he's not admitting to anything, yet she is suddenly agreeing to dumping her best buddy ?

And you don't smell something fishy here? Really?


----------



## Thoreau

Shaggy said:


> So he's not admitting to anything, yet she is suddenly agreeing to dumping her best buddy ?
> 
> And you don't smell something fishy here? Really?


I just lol'ed. Smell something fishy??? Like her fingers or upper lip?!? Thanx Shaggy, I needed a good belly laugh!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> This is a slow-motion train wreck about to happen. Six months or less from now, I am really afraid OP will be back here saying, "You guys were right."
> 
> OP, the LAST thing - the very last thing - I wanted to believe was that my wife was capable of betraying me. She's the best thing that ever happened to me. She's still the most important person in my life. She was and is a great mother, loving wife, and wonderful partner. I never believed, even for a moment, that I would find my marriage in jeopardy over infidelity, because I just knew that my wife wasn't "one of those".
> 
> And yet, in the end, she was.
> 
> Ignoring this will not make it go away, I promise you.
> 
> But as we are reaching post # 525, I see you still prefer the illusion.
> 
> I wish you the best.


Do you realise you are blaming me for my wife's possible future cheating? Cheating is always a choice and it is not mine. I've given her an ultimatum and the NC is in effect. What am I ignoring? I still have my devices in action (and will have more, text app and possibly var/gps) to see if she's being truthful. What else do you suggest?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Shaggy said:


> So he's not admitting to anything, yet she is suddenly agreeing to dumping her best buddy ?
> 
> And you don't smell something fishy here? Really?


I gave her a choice: me or her. We'll see.


----------



## Thoreau

You should have held her feet to the fire right away. Not wait for a decision...."we'll see".....pffft.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Thoreau said:


> You should have held her feet to the fire right away. Not wait for a decision...."we'll see".....pffft.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are misunderstanding my posts on purpose.


----------



## Thoreau

Thats an oxymoron. You are misunderstanding your wifes affair. We are all on your side. You are your own worst enemy right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.
> 
> The reason she chose women only gym (and I understand her) is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.


You have no gay friends do you? They would laugh at you for thinking this doesn't occur at EVERY gym. Heck, the gay women I know, LOVE all women places because there is no male competition.

No, you can't shadow her everywhere, but you can stop enabling her games.


----------



## weightlifter

CIBS. You are doing fine. And I was one of your early detractors.

DONT STOP.

I smell ALOT more...

Poly is a great idea. parking lot confessions...

One great trick not my idea so credit to who thought it up.

In a poly you get like 3 questions.

make a list of all the questions you want on a paper and have her answer them on paper.

Poly question 1 (show her the paper). Is everything you wrote on this paper true?


----------



## InlandTXMM

Maybe I and the others are doing some projecting here, because I know for sure I could not just say, "Okay, dear, now this behavior of yours lately screams to high heaven of a lesbian affair, but as long as you promise to be good going forward, I'll look the other way on what you've already done."

This is called RUG-SWEEPING. And believe me, you will NOT be able to move forward without first knowing where you stand. You don't know what she's already done, and in being willing to turn a blind eye you are giving her a pass for the past behavior.

You think this will endear her to you for being so loving. It will repulse her and embolden her to try again because you were so weak.

Once in a sexual harassment course I attended, the instructor said, "It's not WHAT you say that makes it harassing - it is how it's taken." The lesson was that no matter how innocently you meant a compliment, if she felt it was threatening, it was threatening.

Learn that lesson. You THINK you are projecting mercy. Your wife sees you as a pushover. You have got to stop thinking that your wife sees your willingness to move forward and not hold her responsible for her past actions as some act of benevolence. She doesn't. She sees you as WEAK.

Just the behavior: her ignoring you, snapping at you when you asked WTH was going on on your bed, leaving the room to let them finish, then the sneaking out, the spooning, and now, being offered THE PERFECT SCENARIO to continue the affair ( I mean, how will you now know she even WENT to the gym in the first place? You just gave her hours away from home every day with no way to track her).... all of this proves she sees not as the compassion of a loving husband. She sees the WEAKNESS of a terrified man.

She has been expecting the "comeuppance" to begin. Yet you give her a pass. In doing so you have shifted the relationship irrevocably into her control. And women do not respect men they can control.

I understand the fear. Really, I do. But she will not respond to weakness with complicity. She will only do that to strength.


----------



## bfree

Op, I don't understand something. You say you can't go to the gym with her because she would go at a different time. Why can't you simply say she can go with you and not at a different time? Her behavior certainly warrants these restrictions doesn't it? Or is it because you just don't want to take the time out of your schedule to go to the gym with her? If I were in your situation taking an hour or so out of my day would be a small price to pay for peace of mind and a better marriage. If you find her cheating on you (again?) and/or you end up divorcing it's going to cost you a heck of a lot more in time and dollars.


----------



## Chaparral

I understand the op's problem. All he has is some shady behavior, no proof of anything more than new best friends.

He needs concrete suggestions.

Her going to any gym scares me from what I have seen here.

Minimum, I would gps her phone or get her on I could track and put spyware on.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



chapparal said:


> I understand the op's problem. All he has is some shady behavior, no proof of anything more than new best friends.
> 
> He needs concrete suggestions.
> 
> Her going to any gym scares me from what I have seen here.
> 
> Minimum, I would gps her phone or get her on I could track and put spyware on.


I know what you're saying but considering what has already transpired (nude massages, sneaking out shopping, getting drunk at bars, spooning with another woman on the couch) I don't see the harm with insisting on going to the gym together. If he finds out she is going to the gym without him then he knows beyond any doubts that something is going on. If she refuses to abide by a few minor marital friendly couple building suggestions then he knows there is already a bigger problem than he suspects. I'm a very proactive type of person. I would rather prevent a tragedy than have to come up with an action plan for when it happens. Sometimes waiting for the other shoe to drop just means you end up being cut off at the ankles.


----------



## Chaparral

From what I have seen on these sad pages, there is no way I would let a wife go to one by herself...........or be a nurse........ or a teacher........


----------



## aeg512

I think someone needs to look at reality here. I did claims work and probably 98% of what is being posted would not fly because the comments are not based on reality but conjecture. Too many here have an agenda, why do I say that. Because they are always posting the same way, giving the so called same advice, "leave or kick OS out". The OP is using some common sense and that obviously does not belong here.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



aeg512 said:


> I think someone needs to look at reality here. I did claims work and probably 98% of what is being posted would not fly because the comments are not based on reality but conjecture. Too many here have an agenda, why do I say that. Because they are always posting the same way, giving the so called same advice, "leave or kick OS out". The OP is using some common sense and that obviously does not belong here.


No one is advising the OP to kick his wife out or leave. From what I've seen most posters are suggesting he get on top of the situation before it spirals out of control. Everyone is sharing their opinions on how to accomplish this but I think all are trying to help in their own way. It does seem that someone here does have an agenda. I quoted them above.


----------



## Entropy3000

aeg512 said:


> I think someone needs to look at reality here. I did claims work and probably 98% of what is being posted would not fly because the comments are not based on reality but conjecture. Too many here have an agenda, why do I say that. Because they are always posting the same way, giving the so called same advice, "leave or kick OS out". The OP is using some common sense and that obviously does not belong here.


Yes. The agenda is to save the marriage before it slips through his fingers. He is not asserting boundaries.

I ahve no idea what claims work has to do with anything here. This is NOT a legal matter. Yet. It is not a court of law.

The OP has been dragging his feet for far too long. Fix a problem when it is small and you can save things. Watch the trainwreck happen when you can intervene and you are an enabler.


----------



## Trickster

I do agree that all this is weird…. For some people the line gets a little hazy. 

I can understand the OP… If somebody is going to cheat, at some point in the future, they will, no matter what the intervention… I realize it is important to be proactive and prevent a full blown affair. Prevention is the best medicine, Right? At least if it concerns my health.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, CIBS will never know the extent of this relationship. There is still, very slim, chance that this is still just a friendship.

The OP wants a “smoking gun” and that hasn’t happened for him yet. IMHO, people need to be given a very long rope and let them hang themselves. I wouldn’t want a marriage if I was always wondering if my wife was cheating, wondering if she had to work late, if it was really work, if she started to get in shape, was it for her self- image or to attract another man or woman. The not knowing is the worst.

I know if my wife didn’t trust me, especially when I have many single female clients, I don’t think she would want to stay married to me. I know with my attitude, I’ve give her plenty of reasons to wonder. It’s about trust.

Until that line is crossed, the line is different for everybody, the OP will always have doubts. I would rather let my wife cheat, so I would know what she was capable of doing.

What I find so strange is that they are doing this at the OP’s home. If it was an affair, it doesn’t seem logical they would pick the couch to spoon, or the bed for the naked massage. I guess nothing is normal during the fog of an affair.


----------



## Trickster

The One With The Nap Partners - Friends Central - TV Show, Episodes, Characters

I just had to post this

Ross and joey get caught


----------



## bfree

See I don't find it strange that they're carrying on in the OP's house at all. I think they've successfully gaslighted him for so long they just got careless.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> I do agree that all this is weird…. For some people the line gets a little hazy.
> 
> What I find so strange is that they are doing this at the OP’s home. If it was an affair, it doesn’t seem logical they would pick the couch to spoon, or the bed for the naked massage. I guess nothing is normal during the fog of an affair.


I think it stems from her lack of respect for him and the marriage. She's certainly not fearful of him doing anything to her. The infidelity was definitely not the start of her disaffection.


----------



## aeg512

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. The agenda is to save the marriage before it slips through his fingers. He is not asserting boundaries.
> 
> I ahve no idea what claims work has to do with anything here. This is NOT a legal matter. Yet. It is not a court of law.
> 
> The OP has been dragging his feet for far too long. Fix a problem when it is small and you can save things. Watch the trainwreck happen when you can intervene and you are an enabler.


"I ahve no idea what claims work has to do with anything here."

You have got to be kidding? With claims work you deal with the facts, not conjecture!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> I know what you're saying but considering what has already transpired (nude massages, sneaking out shopping, getting drunk at bars, spooning with another woman on the couch) I don't see the harm with insisting on going to the gym together. If he finds out she is going to the gym without him then he knows beyond any doubts that something is going on. If she refuses to abide by a few minor marital friendly couple building suggestions then he knows there is already a bigger problem than he suspects. I'm a very proactive type of person. I would rather prevent a tragedy than have to come up with an action plan for when it happens. Sometimes waiting for the other shoe to drop just means you end up being cut off at the ankles.


I just wanted to clear this as it has been implied here a few times now. She is not some easy girl or a serial cheater who gives in to the first person who hits on her. I trust her enough to have her be alone at her hobbies, how can you be married if you don't? It's impossible. I just don't trust her with this specific woman. They got too close for my liking. They had been training (what I would call pretty intimate as personal trainers often are) for over six months so it's not like they just met. Besides I have never heard of a gym where people go to have sex.

Answer to the other q: the gym is between our place and her work so it saves time she goes straight from work.


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> I just wanted to clear this as it has been implied here a few times now. She is not some easy girl or a serial cheater who gives in to the first person who hits on her. I trust her enough to have her be alone at her hobbies, how can you be married if you don't? It's impossible. I just don't trust her with this specific woman. They got too close for my liking. They had been training (what I would call pretty intimate as personal trainers often are) for over six months so it's not like they just met. Besides I have never heard of a gym where people go to have sex.
> 
> Answer to the other q: the gym is between our place and her work so it saves time she goes straight from work.


I am not sure if anyone here implied that she was a serial cheater or easy? 

I happen to think it is much worse than that. I think she fell in love with her PT. That does not make her easy or a serial cheater. Of course as always that is just my opinion based on everything you have told us in this thread. 

I hope I am wrong about that as they have probably went underground. I know you say she didnt admit to anything but she certainly agreed to the NC letter, that to me is an admission of guilt right there. 

I do wish you luck in reeling your wife back in.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Got the text app working nothing out of order so far. Not sure how useful GPS tracking would be in my case as she can't really go anywhere she isn't supposed to without having noticable delay (she is at work at day then goes gym then home). The PT lilves in totally different direction.

Some people asked how did she took the NC/ultimatum (missed this earlier). Well, she isn't happy as expected but agreed to it. Acting hurt and few worded. Can't really draw any conclusions from this as I'm sure even if they were just friends she wouldn't be happy in that case either.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> I am not sure if anyone here implied that she was a serial cheater or easy?
> 
> I happen to think it is much worse than that. I think she fell in love with her PT. That does not make her easy or a serial cheater. Of course as always that is just my opinion based on everything you have told us in this thread.
> 
> I hope I am wrong about that as they have probably went underground. I know you say she didnt admit to anything but she certainly agreed to the NC letter, that to me is an admission of guilt right there.
> 
> I do wish you luck in reeling your wife back in.


It has been implied a few times now (look back a few pages) that women only gyms are full of lesbian predators and my wife will fall prey to them if I can't be there myself to stop it. Then there is the suggestion(s) that she should go to a mixed gym and I be there to watch over her so she won't cheat. How I'm gonna watch over her when she, after a gym or swimming goes to take a shower - which are full of naked women?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



CouldItBeSo said:


> It has been implied a few times now (look back a few pages) that women only gyms are full of lesbian predators and my wife will fall prey to them if I can't be there myself to stop it. Then there is the suggestion(s) that she should go to a mixed gym and I be there to watch over her so she won't cheat. How I'm gonna watch over her when she, after a gym or swimming goes to take a shower - which are full of naked women?


I don't think anyone is suggesting you accompany her into the shower but for some reason you seem very resistant to taking time out of your schedule to engage in a couples building activity. How much time do you and your wife devote to each other? That is time you and her focus solely on each other. No TV, no computer, no other people. Just the two of you talking, participating in activities with each other, etc. If you don't spend a substantial amount of time reinforcing your bond with each other you could both drift. Maybe that is why she was so susceptible to the influence of another?


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> It has been implied a few times now (look back a few pages) that women only gyms are full of lesbian predators and my wife will fall prey to them if I can't be there myself to stop it. Then there is the suggestion(s) that she should go to a mixed gym and I be there to watch over her so she won't cheat. How I'm gonna watch over her when she, after a gym or swimming goes to take a shower - which are full of naked women?


I dont know that anyone meant for you to be on her tail 24/7. It just seemed crazy that she joins a female gym only where she could very easily meet up with the OW, and you cannot go to even check it out if you wanted to. Forget everyone else, the PT is your biggest problem/nightmare!

Are you concerned that she gave in pretty easily to the NC letter?


----------



## Shaggy

Or gee, how about she tells you she is going to the gym and most of the time she does so she can hangout with the PT and then once in a while they skip the gym to date.

You really are choosing to be very naive. Instead of seeing potential ways you can be easily gaslighted and burnt here, you are defensively rejecting real concerns you should be dealing with.

You are throwing trust at someone who has not been acting trust worthy.

You are declaring the fox defeated because you made some noise and chased it away once.

You are ignoring that the PT and your wife have gotten very very close. Don't you think that they've given up super easily, especially if nothing was actually going on?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting you accompany her into the shower but for some reason you seem very resistant to taking time out of your schedule to engage in a couples building activity. How much time do you and your wife devote to each other? That is time you and her focus solely on each other. No TV, no computer, no other people. Just the two of you talking, participating in activities with each other, etc. If you don't spend a substantial amount of time reinforcing your bond with each other you could both drift. Maybe that is why she was so susceptible to the influence of another?


But technically, if we went to a gym together, she could be hooking up with some girl in the shower or in the locker room and I would have no idea. Or the PT could be waiting her in there. Take this with a grain of salt.

We are in practice spending all the time together minus the hobby and work. We go swimming together 1-2 times a week. Have a date once a week. Quality time at home. Making food together. At summer we go sailing and to the beach. This training of hers is something that is her own and if I push myself in there she will look at it like I'm smothering her. She didn't come and start playing with me and my friends in our band because she knew it was my own thing and she honestly can't even play. If we went to a gym together she would be doing her own thing anyway as her workout is specifically designed for women.


----------



## BobSimmons

Pg 37..


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> It has been implied a few times now (look back a few pages) that women only gyms are full of lesbian predators and my wife will fall prey to them if I can't be there myself to stop it. Then there is the suggestion(s) that she should go to a mixed gym and I be there to watch over her so she won't cheat. How I'm gonna watch over her when she, after a gym or swimming goes to take a shower - which are full of naked women?


LOL, don't twist my words because you are in an untenable situation. You both implied that an all female gym was safe because male gyms are full of creeps, ooglers and basically predators. I laughed at you and said predators are at EVERY GYM.


CouldItBeSo said:


> Guys, you have to realise I can't shadow her everywhere she goes. The PT could also show up at her work for all I know. There could be a predator in the clothes store she buys her clothes from.
> 
> The reason she chose women only gym *(and I understand her)* is because in mixed gyms there is lot of creeps just ogling women and following around offering to help, pickup artists etc.





phillybeffandswiss said:


> You have no gay friends do you? They would laugh at you for thinking this doesn't occur at EVERY gym. Heck, the gay women I know, LOVE all women places because there is no male competition.
> 
> No, you can't shadow her everywhere, but you can stop enabling her games.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> I dont know that anyone meant for you to be on her tail 24/7. It just seemed crazy that she joins a female gym only where she could very easily meet up with the OW, and you cannot go to even check it out if you wanted to. Forget everyone else, the PT is your biggest problem/nightmare!
> 
> Are you concerned that she gave in pretty easily to the NC letter?


I understand why she chose ladies only gym. She is 28 and in good shape and very attractive. In mixed gyms it takes 5-10 min until there is some Pumpin' Iron Mike trying to give a helping hand or trying to hit on her. Or following around doing some stupid dumbbell move while ogling her. Sure as a woman (assuming from your name) you see her point?

phillybeffandswiss: it has nothing to do with being safe. *She *does not want have a bunch of dudes bothering her every time she goes to a gym.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



CouldItBeSo said:


> But technically, if we went to a gym together, she could be hooking up with some girl in the shower or in the locker room and I would have no idea. Or the PT could be waiting her in there. Take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> We are in practice spending all the time together minus the hobby and work. We go swimming together 1-2 times a week. Have a date once a week. Quality time at home. Making food together. At summer we go sailing and to the beach. This training of hers is something that is her own and if I push myself in there she will look at it like I'm smothering her. She didn't come and start playing with me and my friends in our band because she knew it was my own thing and she honestly can't even play. If we went to a gym together she would be doing her own thing anyway as her workout is specifically designed for women.


Ok just be aware of the pitfalls that many run into. It seems at times that you are two separate people that just happen to live together. Marital bonds do not stay strong unless they are constantly reinforced.


----------



## Trickster

LoriC said:


> Forget everyone else, the PT is your biggest problem/nightmare!
> 
> Are you concerned that she gave in pretty easily to the NC letter?


 
I say this because it related to my client and myself....Although I didn't sign any letter and I don't believe my client signed anything. The bf though and still thinks there was something going on. Without a doubt...there was nothing going on except a client/therapst relationship. There has been a NC because that is what the bf wanted and even though my client still needs therapy for her pain and wanted to come to my office, I declined...not out of guilt, but out of respect of the bf's wishes. She has been to a couple of different MT's, but they haven't helped...

Just because they chose to honor the NC letter, it doesn't mean they are guilty.

CIBS...I am all for them being just friends...Being a massage therapist, I do have a few lesbian massage therapist and personal trainer friends...So I had to ask one of them... She found the spooning thing odd for a straight married woman, but...she kisses many woman who are straight. Those women were single though. Usually that happens when they were drinking...She even sees straight women kissing for fun, while out on the dance floor...

No more GNO for your wife. Like the othere, I don't trust the PT


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> I understand why she chose ladies only gym. She is 28 and in good shape and very attractive. In mixed gyms it takes 5-10 min until there is some Pumpin' Iron Mike trying to give a helping hand or trying to hit on her. Or following around doing some stupid dumbbell move while ogling her. Sure as a woman (assuming from your name) you see her point?
> 
> phillybeffandswiss: it has nothing to do with being safe. *She *does not want have a bunch of dudes bothering her every time she goes to a gym.


Yes I am a woman, the only difference between me and your wife is that I like men and she seems to like both men and women. I think that her or your reasoning for her joining a women's gym is lame. It seems like she would be ok with women ogling her, just not men? 

You suspect a LESBIAN affair! Does it make sense for her to be going to an all women's gym now?


----------



## Maricha75

CouldItBeSo said:


> I understand why she chose ladies only gym. She is 28 and in good shape and very attractive. In mixed gyms it takes 5-10 min until there is some Pumpin' Iron Mike trying to give a helping hand or trying to hit on her. Or following around doing some stupid dumbbell move while ogling her. Sure as a woman (assuming from your name) you see her point?


Actually, as a woman *I* don't see her point. Guy comes over wanting to help, she says "no thanks" or "get lost" or "not interested"...easy. So, it's not ok for men to be ogling her... but it's ok for women to do so. No, not saying ALL women in Women Only gyms are like this. Just that the ogling and nonsense happens in BOTH gyms.



CouldItBeSo said:


> phillybeffandswiss: it has nothing to do with being safe. *She *does not want have a bunch of dudes bothering her every time she goes to a gym.


But it's perfectly ok if there are other women there who could be bothering her in the same manner...just as easily. Yep! Makes perfect sense!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> Yes I am a woman, the only difference between me and your wife is that I like men and she seems to like both men and women. I think that her or your reasoning for her joining a women's gym is lame. It seems like she would be ok with women ogling her, just not men?
> 
> You suspect a LESBIAN affair! Does it make sense for her to be going to an all women's gym now?


You are still assuming that she is in for it with any woman. If I can't trust her to be around other people I can't be married to her.


----------



## tdwal

CouldItBeSo said:


> You are still assuming that she is in for it with any woman. If I can't trust her to be around other people I can't be married to her.


Your right, you just need to be vigilant because she may not be completely through with it.


----------



## Thoreau

And there you have it. Her actions have proven her untrustworthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewM

Female gym is fine,don't worry,everyone who is telling you how wrong it is would be also telling you same thing if she was going to normal gym.Just keep checking her with text app/GPS/VAR and you will be fine.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



CouldItBeSo said:


> You are still assuming that she is in for it with any woman. If I can't trust her to be around other people I can't be married to her.


NOW you are realizing why people want you to take this more seriously. That's exactly the point, you can't trust her right now precisely because of her recent behavior. She needs to know that you are not flexible with your marital boundaries. She's testing you right now and depending on how you respond will determine whether or not you CAN stay married to her. There are so many threads on TAM where the spouse didn't take it seriously or didn't react strongly enough and now they are either divorcing or reconciling after infidelity. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Maricha75 said:


> Actually, as a woman *I* don't see her point. Guy comes over wanting to help, she says "no thanks" or "get lost" or "not interested"...easy. So, it's not ok for men to be ogling her... but it's ok for women to do so. No, not saying ALL women in Women Only gyms are like this. Just that the ogling and nonsense happens in BOTH gyms.
> 
> 
> 
> But it's perfectly ok if there are other women there who could be bothering her in the same manner...just as easily. Yep! Makes perfect sense!


She is specifically tired of telling dudes off. Has happened in the past and she quit the gym she used to go to. All were dudes no women bothering her. Some muscle guys in gyms are really dumb, probably from all the growth hormone eating. How many gay women do you suspect are in gyms versus straight men? Especially if we consider that statistically maybe 4-5% of woman are gay while 90% of men are straight. We can go on about this forever and we solve nothing. I can't force her to go to mixed gym if she doesn't want to.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> NOW you are realizing why people want you to take this more seriously. That's exactly the point, you can't trust her right now precisely because of her recent behavior. She needs to know that you are not flexible with your marital boundaries. She's testing you right now and depending on how you respond will determine whether or not you CAN stay married to her. There are so many threads on TAM where the spouse didn't take it seriously or didn't react strongly enough and now they are either divorcing or reconciling after infidelity. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


Yes, I have thought about it and I take it seriously. There is still the point *how is the PT going to know my wife goes to that specific gym*? If we are totally honest, with today's technology, she could probably contact her if she wanted without me knowing which get us to the point what is the use of monitoring her at all? I can't really stop her if she wants to.


----------



## BobSimmons

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes, I have thought about it and I take it seriously. There is still the point *how is the PT going to know my wife goes to that specific gym*? If we are totally honest, with today's technology, she could probably contact her if she wanted without me knowing which get us to the point what is the use of monitoring her at all?* I can't really stop her if she wants *to.


There we go. Best shut this thread off. He can't stop her. he can't force her... good luck people. 100 pages and you'll still be arguing over the same points.


----------



## tdwal

I am curious, did you ask her the meaning of the comment she made in email about the massage and getting interrupted or did you withhold that you saw it? Also who was spooning who, your wife spooning her or the PT spooning your wife?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

tdwal said:


> I am curious, did you ask her the meaning of the comment she made in email about the massage and getting interrupted or did you withhold that you saw it?


She has no idea I read it before it was deleted. I haven't told her not to reveal my spying.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BobSimmons said:


> There we go. Best shut this thread off. He can't stop her. he can't force her... good luck people. 100 pages and you'll still be arguing over the same points.


I must know if she's being trustworthy and she needs to contact the PT somehow if she going to see her. No? 

Bob, why are you reading and posting in this thread if you think it is so useless to you? Snide remarks are not exactly helpful either.


----------



## Trickster

CIBS---How else did your wife respond to them spooning on the couch, other than her saying it's just a frendship. Does she understand how it looks to you. Did she deny being bisexal or say something that you are crazy to think I like women?

I still think you would have caught the affair after a week of the VAR. Usually if there is an affair, it's revealed pretty quick.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

She admitted it must have looked bad but she said she must have been so drunk because she does not remember them going sleep like that. I'm not totally convinced with that explanation. I'm not sure if she actually knows what bisexual is (I didn't, had to Google it). She said how coould I think she's a lesbian and that it's ridiculous.


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> She admitted it must have looked bad but she said she must have been so drunk because she does not remember them going sleep like that. I'm not totally convinced with that explanation. I'm not sure if she actually knows what bisexual is (I didn't, had to Google it). She said how coould I think she's a lesbian and that it's ridiculous.


This is by far the most ridiculous thing you have posted yet! You dont think she knows what bisexual is???? Oh honey, really? She knows, trust me she knows.......


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> This is by far the most ridiculous thing you have posted yet! You dont think she knows what bisexual is???? Oh honey, really? She knows, trust me she knows.......


What do you have against me?

I didn't know what bisexual means before I Googled it. NOt everyone knows these things by default.


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> What do you have against me?
> 
> I didn't know what bisexual means before I Googled it. NOt everyone knows these things by default.


I have absolutely nothing against you. But seriously do you both live under a rock? My 17 year old knows what a bisexual is. It seems a little far fetched to me, forgive me. :rofl:


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LoriC said:


> I have absolutely nothing against you. But seriously do you both live under a rock? My 17 year old knows what a bisexual is. It seems a little far fetched to me, forgive me. :rofl:


Laugh all you want it nice that someone has fun. :scratchhead:

Instead of ridiculing everything I post maybe you could have some constructive input on the matter?


----------



## Trickster

CouldItBeSo said:


> She admitted it must have looked bad but she said she must have been so drunk because she does not remember them going sleep like that. I'm not totally convinced with that explanation. I'm not sure if she actually knows what bisexual is (I didn't, had to Google it). She said how coould I think she's a lesbian and that it's ridiculous.


I have so many stories from back in my drinking days. I am lucky to be alive. One time during my Navy days I was drunk and walked off the pier. It was December in Little Creek virginia... The water was very cold.... Another time on the ship, I passed out in the shower. I can relate to being so drunk to the point I had no idea or remember how I made it back to my ship. Not only that... I hung up my clothes, put my shoes where they had to be, Had a conversation with shipmates and I didn't remember a thing. I even woke up in the dugout of a baseball field on the Naval Base. I don't drink much anymore. lol 

Although her explanation may not have you convinced, she could be telling you the truth. Especially if she isn't used to drinking. 

You're right, marriage is about trust. Without trust, there isn't a marriage. However most of the people on TAM have cheated or been cheated on. There are so many threads on infidelity and many hurt angry people. Most everybody who is on your thread, IMO care, otherwise they wouldn't be here trying to help you see things from their POV.


----------



## LoriC

CouldItBeSo said:


> Laugh all you want it nice that someone has fun. :scratchhead:
> 
> Instead of ridiculing everything I post maybe you could have some constructive input on the matter?



Im sorry, I tried. I am bowing out now. You are both incredibly naive. But I do wish you luck.... I believe you will need it.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Thank god for Firefox and quick way of clearing the history. I need to be more careful wife almost saw me browsing this forum. She started questioning why I'm always typing on my laptop and who I'm talking to? She actually asked if I'm talking to some woman and all this NC thing is just a setup... And I lied... This thing is blowing in my face good. Is she just projecting?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> phillybeffandswiss: it has nothing to do with being safe. *She *does not want have a bunch of dudes bothering her every time she goes to a gym.


Look, I'm going to lurk because your insecurities keep coming out when I post
. 
I said both gyms have the same problems.
I never said lesbians troll gyms waiting for your wife.
I never said anything about it being safe or dangerous for your wife.

You implied safety all by yourself with the use of pickup artists and creeps.


----------



## tdwal

Yes I would think so, trying to get your attention off of her by accusing you. Its pretty common, but it means she is feeling guilty.


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Thank god for Firefox and quick way of clearing the history. I need to be more careful wife almost saw me browsing this forum. She started questioning why I'm always typing on my laptop and who I'm talking to? She actually asked if I'm talking to some woman and all this NC thing is just a setup... And I lied... This thing is blowing in my face good. Is she just projecting?


You can use private browsing which doesn't save history or cookies I think Ctrl+K is shortcut for that in Firefox.

She might be projecting but it could also be you being secretive and deleting history.You are doing what cheaters do when they are having sex talks or finding hookups online.You could have just told her that you are looking for help online regarding the situation.

She might also want you to spend time with her instead of being on laptop.


----------



## BobSimmons

LoriC said:


> I have absolutely nothing against you. But seriously do you both live under a rock? My 17 year old knows what a bisexual is. It seems a little far fetched to me, forgive me. :rofl:


I watch alot of Simpsons, that makes me a homersexual


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> She admitted it must have looked bad but she said she must have been so drunk because she does not remember them going sleep like that. I'm not totally convinced with that explanation. I'm not sure if she actually knows what bisexual is (I didn't, had to Google it). She said how coould I think she's a lesbian and that it's ridiculous.


 You cannot be a cheater without being a liar, since if you are truthful and allowed to do it by your partner, it is no longer cheating. Thus all cheaters are liars. Since your wife is a cheater, she is by definition a liar. Bottom line, why do you even listen to her ridiculous lies?


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lost cause. Sorry, all.

When a grown married man doesn't know what a bisexual is, and is so dead-set to be her advocate, he'll never succeed at stopping this.

If you are truly this naive, I feel so sorry for you because the hurt that's coming may be like nothing you have ever known existed. 

OP, please do what you can to earn some street smarts quickly. You are about to be schooled, I'm afraid.


----------



## TDSC60

CouldItBeSo said:


> Thank god for Firefox and quick way of clearing the history. I need to be more careful wife almost saw me browsing this forum. She started questioning why I'm always typing on my laptop and who I'm talking to? She actually asked if I'm talking to some woman and all this NC thing is just a setup... And I lied... This thing is blowing in my face good. Is she just projecting?


Don't lie to her.

Tell her that her behavior with the PT had you upset and you were looking on-line to get some perspective.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Wife received a message today someone asking if she'd go to the gym tomorrow and what time. She messaged back the time and see you then. So they are going to meet. Seems you were all right after all I just didn't want to believe she'd do something like this. I need to bust them I could get there before they leave the gym. Wait there outside. Any suggestions how to best handle this?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

CouldItBeSo said:


> Wife received a message today someone asking if she'd go to the gym tomorrow and what time. She messaged back the time and see you then. So they are going to meet. Seems you were all right after all I just didn't want to believe she'd do something like this. I need to bust them I could get there before they leave the gym. Wait there outside. Any suggestions how to best handle this?


Yes, print up divorce papers and leave them under her windshield wiper for when she comes out.


----------



## PBear

Do you know that this "someone" is the PT?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

And you could find a female PI for 15 minutes of work... You know a time and place. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle

I wouldn't go. 

You THINK you will be calm cool and collected, but when you see them and this OM doesn't back down ? Then what ? Or you wife makes a fool out of you ? Then What ?

Don't go.. Have someone else go if anything.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Hardtohandle said:


> I wouldn't go.
> 
> You THINK you will be calm cool and collected, but when you see them and this OM doesn't back down ? Then what ? Or you wife makes a fool out of you ? Then What ?
> 
> Don't go.. Have someone else go if anything.


You haven't really read this thread have you?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

PBear said:


> Do you know that this "someone" is the PT?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know who's number it is but it must be woman and I think I recognize their chatting style with all the xoxos.


----------



## NewM

WorkingOnMe said:


> Yes, print up divorce papers and leave them under her windshield wiper for when she comes out.


Agree with this if it is her old PT.It could also be that she found a new friend,definitely check it out.


----------



## TDSC60

CouldItBeSo said:


> Wife received a message today someone asking if she'd go to the gym tomorrow and what time. She messaged back the time and see you then. So they are going to meet. Seems you were all right after all I just didn't want to believe she'd do something like this. I need to bust them I could get there before they leave the gym. Wait there outside. Any suggestions how to best handle this?


It could be a new workout partner just meeting her in the gym. But with her prior behavior concerning the PT you should definitely find out who this woman is. If it is the supposedly former PT, then you know she has willfully violated No Contact (assuming you set these boundaries and she agreed).

First step is to find out who it is. If you see them leave the gym - DO NOT CONFRONT THERE - you will just get yourself in trouble with the law by confronting in public.

Once confirmed just go somewhere alone. Maybe even check into a motel for the night and decide what you want to do.


----------



## weightlifter

You cant show up before hand, with your car in a nearby lot. Camera in hand. Take zoom pics. Then them coming out?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Yes, my plan was parking there with camera when they come out. 

It just seems weird she suddenly would have a new workout partner. She hasn't mentioned anything and if there's nothing to hide why not?


----------



## Thoreau

Whoa.....never saw that coming. 

I agree with no confronting at gym. Get pics and confront later. Too bad you couldnt get a PI inside to see what they do in the shower.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

Could, I don't remember at the time you gave her the NC demand, if you stated there would be any specific consequences. Did you? Or was it just a vague, "I don't want you to talk to her anymore."

See, the problem is, if you just said no more seeing her for TRAINING, your wife (sorry but women are really good at this), will come back with, "You never said we couldn't be FRIENDS."

Specificity is crucial. Specific action forbidden and specific consequence if the boundary is broken.

Even through all of my frustration (like all the others, just trying hard to get through the BS denial as quickly as possible), I am deeply sorry for the hurt you are about to experience. You can get through this - keep coming here like I did for a daily dose of backbone and direction, but this WILL NOT end the way you HOPE it will.


----------



## Acabado

After the "no evidence affair" you caught her in I thinkj you need to cool your head for a while.

This text means nothing, nothing. 

Calm down. Moniture for a while if your gut keep screaming. Don't take drastic measures.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM, the NC was very specific. No contact in any form as friends or training. I made it clear her breaking NC I would see as her choosing the PT over me and our marriage which would result me filing for a divorce.

Add insult to injury on the PT's front page now is a photo of her and my wife arms around each other all smily with a text advertising using my wife as an example of how good shape you'll get in her training. She's rubbing it in my face...


----------



## PBear

Can you find out what number the message came from, and then figure out who it is? Right now, you have no proof besides she planned to meet "someone" at the gym. And unless she walks out arm in arm with her trainer, you'll have nothing, because you didn't listen to the comments about the women's only gym. 

Do you have a female friend you can trust?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

I agree you need to see who the recipient of the message is for sure. But I'm willing to mortgage my house on the fact that it is the PT. 

Sucks SO bad. Sorry bro.

So she and the PT have fired the tennis ball back onto your side of the court. The next move is yours.

This is why I was so adamant. STRENGTH is the only thing that will pull her back. I know, because in the first few days I was a panicked man pulling out every "Nice Guy" tactic to get through to her. I thought I could love her back. It was only when I said that she had lost me, that the fog lifted and she became a repentant mess. But the nice guy stuff didn't even phase her. It was when she met with the brick wall of my resolve that she snapped back to reality.

Actions beget reactions. She's given you an action in direct defiance of your NC agreement.

The next move is yours. I'd snap some pics of them at the gym (I hope you are doing that tomorrow, in fact). Then you text her and tell her you know she broke the NC, you know she was at the gym with the PT, and she needs to come home immediately.

Two things will now snap her out of it, which YOU MUST DO. Please read that last sentence again. These are MUSTS now:

1) Serve her with D papers. Action = consequence. Tell her she is to take her belongings and move out of the house immediately. You can always rescind the paperwork later if there is genuine R. Cut off all financial support and get half of your joint money into new accounts. If the phone is in your name, cancel it.

2) EXPOSE THE AFFAIR EVERYWHERE THE SUN SHINES, and a few places it doesn't. To her family, to your family, to friends and colleagues. If this PT is employed somewhere, inform her employer that she has engaged in a lesbian affair with a client. Post it on the PT's FB page. Flag the photo to Facebook to tell them to remove it. Blow the sucker up HUGE. These vets here will tell you time and time again, affairs only thrive in secrecy. Once the facts are out, and the people they know and care about know what they've done, there is a remarkable chilling effect. 

We're with you in spirit. But now the tough part starts.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I tried a couple phone number inquiry services and they don't list the number so it must be either a pay phone or a number that has been blocked from such services aka a 'secret' number. I don't recall what the PT's number was as it was under her name on my wife's phone and I made her delete every contact info she had for her. I'm really crappy at this.

All our friends are other couples and the wifes are pretty much her friends so I don't know if I can trust any of them.

I will serve her with D the next week and give her a boot if she is meeting with the PT tomorrow. I refuse to live like this if my wife turns out to be a sl*t after all. The PT is self employed so there's really nothing I can do about her. She freaking has my wife's picture on her front page!


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> I tried a couple phone number inquiry services and they don't list the number so it must be either a pay phone or a number that has been blocked from such services aka a 'secret' number. I don't recall what the PT's number was as it was under her name on my wife's phone and I made her delete every contact info she had for her. I'm really crappy at this.
> 
> All our friends are other couples and the wifes are pretty much her friends so I don't know if I can trust any of them.
> 
> I will serve her with D the next week and give her a boot if she is meeting with the PT tomorrow. I refuse to live like this if my wife turns out to be a sl*t after all. The PT is self employed so there's really nothing I can do about her. She freaking has my wife's picture on her front page!


Do nothing about the FB pic until you blow the lid off this tomorrow. If you do, you will give your hand away.

But after? I'd be busy posting up a lot of details about this "PT", like "Gentlemen, be warned - this one will hit on your wife."


----------



## PBear

CouldItBeSo said:


> I tried a couple phone number inquiry services and they don't list the number so it must be either a pay phone or a number that has been blocked from such services aka a 'secret' number. I don't recall what the PT's number was as it was under her name on my wife's phone and I made her delete every contact info she had for her. I'm really crappy at this.
> 
> All our friends are other couples and the wifes are pretty much her friends so I don't know if I can trust any of them.
> 
> I will serve her with D the next week and give her a boot if she is meeting with the PT tomorrow. I refuse to live like this if my wife turns out to be a sl*t after all. The PT is self employed so there's really nothing I can do about her. She freaking has my wife's picture on her front page!


Being self-employed, something like "cheaterville.com" might have some serious impact on her business. When the first thing that pops up is a story about her lesbian affair with a client, I suspect some of the smugness might be wiped off her face.

Not that I encourage such actions, of course...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

PBear said:


> Being self-employed, something like "cheaterville.com" might have some serious impact on her business. When the first thing that pops up is a story about her lesbian affair with a client, I suspect some of the smugness might be wiped off her face.
> 
> Not that I encourage such actions, of course...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

You bet. She is willing to f*ck with what is most important to you, then by all means, f*ck with what's important to HER.

I'm a big believer in dishing up some hell for the affair partners, too. Post her on Cheaterville with a warning that she is NOT safe for female clients. 

^ This advice is for AFTER you properly deal with the wife. Just a bit of revenge / fun at the expense of the PT.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Add insult to injury on the PT's front page now is a photo of her and my wife arms around each other all smily with a text advertising using my wife as an example of how good shape you'll get in her training. She's rubbing it in my face...


 It was not aimed at you. It was aimed at your wife. The PT is sending a message to your wife that she still thinks of her and that the PT thinks that your wife has an attractive body. By using a picture with their arms around each other, she is reminding your wife just how close they are.


----------



## Chaparral

Make sure they can't see you when they come out of the gym. You need to see how they tell each other good bye.

It's still a possibility they are just friends and your wife thinks you are just being ridiculus and is not taking this that seriously.

Can you get her phone number off of facebook? How does she advertise her business? Could you have your mom or another female relative call the number?


----------



## Chaparral

Be prepared in case they leave early to go somewhere else. They may go somewhere in OW's car. They may not even go into the gym.


----------



## InlandTXMM

I don't think they've actually been working out for a long time. The 15 minutes prior to his arrival has been to give the appearance of propriety for his sake.

They've been at each other like white on rice for a while now.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

There's only an email listed on her page. I believe my wife found her ad in a newspaper then contacted her through email and then after that on phone.

I blocked my number and tried to call the number it says the number can not be reached. No reception or phone off?


----------



## Cdelta02

CouldItBeSo said:


> There's only an email listed on her page. I believe my wife found her ad in a newspaper then contacted her through email and then after that on phone.
> 
> I blocked my number and tried to call the number it says the number can not be reached. No reception or phone off?


Why bother? Go to gym ahead of time and sit in parking lot. Take a camera. 

And if you have a friend whose wife or daughter can help you out, send them in after your wife.


----------



## Cdelta02

And after that, once W comes home ask her about the text. Make her call the number in front of you. If no one answers and she is bullshatting you about who it is, drive down with her to the supposed person's place to verify if the number is indeed theirs and not the PTs.

It could be a text from Skype. That would show up as a telephone number but would not be picked up on a return call if the other person is not signed in on Skype.


----------



## bryanp

The PT and your wife are a real piece of work. You gave your wife ample warning and apparently she either does not care that you would be hurt or feels that you are a total moron that she can control and manipulate. I think handing her the divorce papers at the gym with the PT makes a lot of sense. Make sure you get an outstanding attorney on your side. Good luck.


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## PBear

His wife is a fool if she comes out of the gym with the PT. Not saying it won't happen... Just that she's a fool if she does. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Cdelta02 said:


> Why bother? Go to gym ahead of time and sit in parking lot. Take a camera.
> 
> And if you have a friend whose wife or daughter can help you out, send them in after your wife.


You have to absolutely need to stay out of sight. You should check the place out today and see exactly where you want to be. You need your vehicle hidden yet have it close enough in case you need to follow them.

I would be ready to put her clothes in a garbage bag on the front porch and change the locks.


----------



## Chaparral

PBear said:


> His wife is a fool if she comes out of the gym with the PT. Not saying it won't happen... Just that she's a fool if she does.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The PT could get there early and leave later.


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## InlandTXMM

I predict they will arrive and then leave together to go elsewhere. If this is an affair, which I am 95% sure it is, they need "alone time". 

Your wife is NOT going to risk her marriage just to do some cardio and stomach crunches in a sweaty gym with this woman.


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## Chaparral

Have you googled her name/business?


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## Chaparral

Do they both facebook? Deleted facebook chats can be recovered. If they were lovers I would have thought there would have been more inn her texts besides XOXOXOX.


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## InlandTXMM

Could, think back over the relationship. Now in hindsight, were there other instances of her being really close to other women? Were there obvious lesbian friends? 

I ask because she seems so good at keeping the evidence to a mimimum, and even orchestrating these 15-minute workout sessions, that it seems like she's done this previously. She's awfully good at keeping a lid on this for a first-timer.


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## Chaparral

What other kind of issues have you had in your relationship? I am wondering if your wife is a tad to idealistic coupled with being naive.


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## LostViking

Not that it matters much, but four years ago my 41 year old sister finally came out and informed all of us that she is a lesbian and had been all her life. It blew us all away. I always thought the reason she never dated men or got married was because she was picky. 

My point is some people are VERY good at acting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> Wait there outside. Any suggestions how to best handle this?


Do you have a friend or relative that own are car she wouldn't recognize?


----------



## TRy

@OP: Rent a cheap car in the early AM. Be prepared to get there hours before your wife gets there to see if the PT gets there early. Another option would be to hire a female PI to go in for a tour of the gym. This is why many of us cautioned you against the female only gym, since it makes it much harder for you to monitor if the PT meets your wife at the gym. In a mixed gym you would able to just follow your wife in and see them together.


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## Shaggy

I never saw that coming!

Seriously go to the gym, walk in and find your wife with the PT.

Say nothing but make sure she sees you. Turn and leave without a word.

Go home, pack a bag and stay at a hotel for a couple of days while staying completely dark on her.

She's lying to you, she's masking the relationship with the PT a priority instead of the marriage. 

You need to show a lot of spine and act,


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## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> Have you googled her name/business?





chapparal said:


> Do they both facebook? Deleted facebook chats can be recovered. If they were lovers I would have thought there would have been more inn her texts besides XOXOXOX.


I have Googled her but the only result is her FB page. I believe she's just being cautious about giving too specific contact info to avoid possible creeps. They had some FB exchange I mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> Could, think back over the relationship. Now in hindsight, were there other instances of her being really close to other women? Were there obvious lesbian friends?
> 
> I ask because she seems so good at keeping the evidence to a mimimum, and even orchestrating these 15-minute workout sessions, that it seems like she's done this previously. She's awfully good at keeping a lid on this for a first-timer.


Nothing I can think of now all her friends are wifes of other couples. I am not sure exactly what do you mean by "obvious lesbian friends"?


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Nothing I can think of now all her friends are wifes of other couples. I am not sure exactly what do you mean by "obvious lesbian friends"?


I had a good female friend in HS who came out to the world at the age of 36, after being married and having 4 kids. She is the feminine one in the relationship and is now with a very butch woman.

She did not just wake up one day and say, "I like girls." Turns out she had experimented a lot through high school and college, and then had done some sampling thoughout her marriage while her husband was deployed.

Your wife did not just suddenly wake up and decide to throw her marriage away for a woman. She HAD to have at least sampled this somewhere before, and I can promise you, once the dust settles, this PT will not have been the first.

So my question was, did she hang out with women who gave you that "vibe"? I mean, you instinctively knew something was wrong with the way she acted toward the PT, so looking back, did you ever get a similar feeling with her around other women?


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## LostViking

My sister is the most feminine looking and acting woman I know. Men have always hit on her because she is very attractive. We always wondered why she never dated. 

Well she was dating. She just wasn't dating men. We thought all the women she shopped and hung out with were just girlfriends. Looking back many of them were her lovers. 

I don't mind her being a lesbian, that's her business, but her other siblings and I were furious with her for hiding it for so long. We all felt like we were the brunt of a 41 year long joke.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> I had a good female friend in HS who came out to the world at the age of 36, after being married and having 4 kids. She is the feminine one in the relationship and is now with a very butch woman.
> 
> She did not just wake up one day and say, "I like girls." Turns out she had experimented a lot through high school and college, and then had done some sampling thoughout her marriage while her husband was deployed.
> 
> Your wife did not just suddenly wake up and decide to throw her marriage away for a woman. She HAD to have at least sampled this somewhere before, and I can promise you, once the dust settles, this PT will not have been the first.
> 
> So my question was, did she hang out with women who gave you that "vibe"? I mean, you instinctively knew something was wrong with the way she acted toward the PT, so looking back, did you ever get a similar feeling with her around other women?


I don't recall getting any vibes from her friends. Not even from the PT until I saw the text in context of the massage incident. By obvious I assume you mean someone acting obviously aka hitting on/flirting shamelessly.


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## CouldItBeSo

I feel so stupid and embarassed that I don't know where to start. First, my wife went to the gym with one of her old friends who also works in the same place as my wife. The friend is married and her husband is a good friend of mine. I was there ready to bust her with a camera looking like a fool. So I covertly drive the heck out of there. Or so I thought. Wife comes home and and tells that she was at the gym today with her friend. I say okay and try to be nonchalant. She says she thinks I knew it already. I act clueless. She asks if I got anything to say. I say nope. She says okay then and goes upstairs and we haven't spoken since. She's acting weird I think she saw me...


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## LostViking

I wouldn't worry. Let her be mad. If she confronts, simply tell her she would be doing the same thing if she thought you were cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Yup. Good opportunity to tell her how much trust she's destroyed.


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## happyman64

:iagree: :iagree:

She is lucky you do not dress up as a woman and join her gym.

Maybe she is not as stupid as I thought.

You should go upstairs, rip off her clothes and be the man.

Go right now.

Less talking. More action. Together.


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## Acabado

If she saw you... sorry man but it's bad news. This kind of sh1t make them see our weakness. OK, what's done is done.
Is she aware PT put her in her website?
Man, if you are still worried (and you should) you have to be a little smarter than this. You don't even have PT's number. If you are going to snoop do it better.
In ond hand I believe you need to kwwp cheking, low key.
In the other... start comunicating with her. Whether she was having and affair or not the confrontation, the demand for NC.. it's taking its toll in the marriage. It needs to be adressed before resentment keep piling up in both sides.


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## Acabado

Better use happyman's advice!
Yeah, go caveman and get what yours!


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## WorkingOnMe

Acabado said:


> Better use happyman's advice!
> Yeah, go caveman and get what yours!


The problem with this whole thing is she's not remorseful and won't even admit she's done anything wrong. If she thought for one second that she was close to losing her marriage, if she regretted her actions at all there would be a ton of hysterical bonding happening. Is she even giving it up at all at this point?


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## LostViking

She is treating this whole issue like it is some sort of game. I agree that she is not showing any remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> She's acting weird I think she saw me...


 So what if she saw you? Now she knows that you are being vigilant, and that using the gym to see the other woman is not a safe option. 

Do not feel embarrassed. She it the one that destroyed the trust not you. Also, just because this time she did not cheat, does not mean that she is over the affair with the PT. All it means is that this time she saw another friend and did not cheat. It is not like cheaters give up all of their other friends and cheat 100% of every hour of every day cheating with their affair partners. Most of the interactions of even the most active of cheaters, will be innocent. 

Do not think that you are safe. Do not apologize to her if she confronts you on this. You have a right to protect your marraige and should not be made to feel bad for doing so. Her actions are what has made you reasonably feel unsafe and not secure in your marraige. She needs to be the one to make you feel safe and secure, and her lack of remorse shows that she is not making such an effort. Of course the cheaters handbook will tell her to try to make you feel bad so that you will stop watching and checking on her. Do not buy into it. Smile and feel good that she suspects that you are watching.


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## happyman64

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem with this whole thing is she's not remorseful and won't even admit she's done anything wrong. If she thought for one second that she was close to losing her marriage, if she regretted her actions at all there would be a ton of hysterical bonding happening. Is she even giving it up at all at this point?


Sometimes a person is so immature they do not understand how horrible their actions are and the damage that is done to the spouse or marriage.

That could be the case here.


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## mablenc

Hi, 
I been following your post. I think she is a smart cookie and set this up. Did not delete the text knowing you would read it, she may be even reading this forum. I would behave be very nice, pretend to drop your guard and let her get confertable thinking she out smarted you. But keep an eye out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Were you well hid? It looks like she knows you can see her texts.


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## Keepin-my-head-up

CouldItBeSo said:


> I feel so stupid and embarassed that I don't know where to start. First, my wife went to the gym with one of her old friends who also works in the same place as my wife. The friend is married and her husband is a good friend of mine. I was there ready to bust her with a camera looking like a fool. So I covertly drive the heck out of there. Or so I thought. Wife comes home and and tells that she was at the gym today with her friend. I say okay and try to be nonchalant. She says she thinks I knew it already. I act clueless. She asks if I got anything to say. I say nope. She says okay then and goes upstairs and we haven't spoken since. She's acting weird I think she saw me...


Ohhh man that suuuuckkks bawlz!
Maybe just tell her your suspicions, the text and such.
Tell her ur done checking up ( you can still check, but this may get her thinking she is on the clear now)
Also, live like you dont need her.

She knows you are a snoop now and maybe you need to diffuse this before she goes covert big time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I feel so stupid and embarassed that I don't know where to start. First, my wife went to the gym with one of her old friends who also works in the same place as my wife. The friend is married and her husband is a good friend of mine. I was there ready to bust her with a camera looking like a fool. So I covertly drive the heck out of there. Or so I thought. Wife comes home and and tells that she was at the gym today with her friend. I say okay and try to be nonchalant. She says she thinks I knew it already. I act clueless. She asks if I got anything to say. I say nope. She says okay then and goes upstairs and we haven't spoken since. She's acting weird I think she saw me...


I am sorry but this did make me laugh quite hard. I am sure you drove up to the place parked the car facing the building and had the camera facing the building. Man you are lucky the cops didn't get called. Next time make sure you park the car facing away from the building and use your rearview mirror to monitor what you are looking for. Also get a rental car. Especially if your car is flashy, stands out, or is rare. Like if you drive an infinity g35 yea that will stand out. if you have a silver chevy impala. Yea your good.


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## BobSimmons

badbane said:


> I am sorry but this did make me laugh quite hard. I am sure you drove up to the place parked the car facing the building and had the camera facing the building. Man you are lucky the cops didn't get called. Next time make sure you park the car facing away from the building and use your rearview mirror to monitor what you are looking for. Also get a rental car. Especially if your car is flashy, stands out, or is rare. Like if you drive an infinity g35 yea that will stand out. if you have a silver chevy impala. Yea your good.


I thought about that as soon as I read it, she must have come out the gym and said what's our car doing there..


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## Chaparral

She may have just suspected you saw her text.


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## Shaggy

Learn from this, and the next time you suspect 

Do exactly the same thing, because it lets her know that right now you do not fully trust her, and you will be checking.


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## CouldItBeSo

After a huge confrontation yesterday she packed her bags and left. she wants a divorce


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## the guy

And you want to stay with a women who continues to decieve you?

Who is doing who a favor?


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## the guy

I'm sorry I lost track of the confrontation, last week she was all up for working on it.

Now all of the sudden that you want/ need verification that you are not being deceived she is pissed?

So she don't like the new CIBS?

Gees it was so much easier for her when you where dumb and blind.

It phucking amazes me how way wards get pissed once we stop sharing them with other lovers!!!!!!


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## the guy

Please don't tell me that you actually believed her when you got her spooning her PT that she ment "she would do anything to work this out" did you...did you really think that she could do the heavy lufting to help you heal and submitt to what you needed.

Dude she was talking to the old CBIS....you should have told her that there is a new CBIS and he will no longer tolorate her crap.


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## the guy

Wasn't it you that wanted the divorce? Now after all her BS she is finaly being honest!

Sir you found your wife spooning her PT......WTF...IN YOUR OWN HOUSE!!!!!

Now who wants a divorce?


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## BobSimmons

great story...


----------



## the guy

This is a classic script. got busted with affair partner so lets save face and beg for forgiveness...now betrayed gets caught validating wayward spouse commitment and now wayward has great oppertunity to do damage control and make betrayed spouse look like crazy stalking husband.


Thank god you exposed this affair to her family and friend or you would be it deep sh1t...

You did expose this affair with PT to her family and friends ...didn;y you??????????????


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## the guy

BobSimmons said:


> great story...


What so great about it, its just like every other guy that has a broken wife that will regret her fantasy years from now


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## the guy

i mean whats so great, OP chick couldn't commit to a freaking pet, what makes any one think she could commit to a human?

Hell alls we really need is food , water, and lots of affection, phuck is it really that hard or are some poeple just that screwed up?


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## the guy

CIBS,
You have gone down this journey and it was finally your wifes choice to not save a family.

You tried, we all here in this community saw that, it time to let go.

Its time to dust your self off.

Its not what knocks us down that matters, it how we get back up that counts!

Next time your see your STBXW you better have a huge smile on your face, wish her the best and thank her for the * short * time together......


Cuz any longer time with her would have be torture....


serious ly smile and wish her the best and show her how easy it is to let her go...I know it hard, but we have to fake until we make it.

The fake perception of positivity will be hrd at first, but fake until you make it. it will be no time at all before you find your self naturaly be positive and poelpe dig that .

Dont let this sh1t define you cuz it will....dust your @ss off take care of business and move on!

Or you can sit in your closet suck you thump and confirm your wifes biggest mistake...get were I'm coming from???


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## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> After a huge confrontation yesterday she packed her bags and left. she wants a divorce


Where did she go?


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## InlandTXMM

CIBS sorry it's headed this way. It's not over yet, but what you do next is absolutely critical.

You MUST go dark on her. Immediately. If you haven't read the 180, search for it here and implement it immediately.

If you apologized for trying to safeguard your marriage or begged her to stay, you added to her disrespect for you.

The only thing that will now bring the marriage back (if it's possible, which I doubt because she just outed herself inadvertently that she likes women and now needs her lesbian fling), is for you to become a strong, independent man.

A couple of things you now also MUST DO:

1) Tell your immediate circle of family and friends. On both sides. She will, if she hasn't already, started telling people how terrible you are and what a creep you've been. This is common and it is for the WS to help create a supportive bubble around themselves, as well as try to justify the infidelity.

2) Serve her with D papers first. Have the lawyer say he's going to subpoena her work email (this is where she's been communicating with the PT). It will only when she sees that you are just as serious about a marriage with boundaries and respect for your vows, that you even have a chance of snapping her out of this fog.

Vets, what other experiences are here about a WW leaving for another woman? What are the chances for success in R? My guess is not very high.


----------



## InlandTXMM

One other thing - DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF. For whatever faults you may have, you did NOT do anything to send your wife into another person's arms. You did not do anything to cause her sudden disrespect of your home and her vows. You did not "turn her" towards women in any way.

I suspect this has lied latent in her for many years, and she got the opportunity to act on it, and now she has.

Stay strong. You can handle this!


----------



## InlandTXMM

azteca1986 said:


> Where did she go?


There's the question. It will also be curious to see who she's calling and texting now that she's forced the NC to end on her terms.


----------



## happyman64

InlandTXMM said:


> There's the question. It will also be curious to see who she's calling and texting now that she's forced the NC to end on her terms.


:iagree:

Now you are seeing who your wife really is....

Be strong.

Stay cool and calm.

Watch her actions. Not what she says to you.

You do not have the truth yet.

Watch their FB postings to each other if you are not blocked....


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Not sure if this will help, but my XW became so after trying to "dabble" in the same-sex stuff. Once everything came out, I was displeased to discover at least 5 affairs with men, and 1 or more with women that I DIDN'T know about (the dabbling was an admitted desire that I ended the relationship over). She is now a "lesbian" and has been in same sex relationships only for almost a decade. 

FWIW, with the things that you have posted, it is possible that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Regardless of that possibility, there HAS been enough evidence of seriously questionable activities that you are 100% justified in the actions you have taken so far. She has clearly crossed boundaries that a committed relationship should not. No matter if she HASN'T slept with the PT, or any other woman, you have still been justified (the couch incident alone should qualify that).


----------



## LostViking

I think you should tell her family what you suspect before she has a chance to make you into the villian.


----------



## InlandTXMM

ET1SSJonota said:


> Not sure if this will help, but my XW became so after trying to "dabble" in the same-sex stuff. Once everything came out, I was displeased to discover at least 5 affairs with men, and 1 or more with women that I DIDN'T know about (the dabbling was an admitted desire that I ended the relationship over). She is now a "lesbian" and has been in same sex relationships only for almost a decade.
> 
> FWIW, with the things that you have posted, it is possible that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Regardless of that possibility, there HAS been enough evidence of seriously questionable activities that you are 100% justified in the actions you have taken so far. She has clearly crossed boundaries that a committed relationship should not. No matter if she HASN'T slept with the PT, or any other woman, you have still been justified (the couch incident alone should qualify that).


Agreed. NEVER have I seen two totally straight women spoon each other all night. NEVER. 

But the sneaking around, naked rubs, etc. gives him EVERY right to demand accountability and to verify her whereabouts and stories.

CIBS, even if your wife is not into girls, then by her actions she has serious boundary and emotional problems to allow these kinds of things to happen. You just do not sneak out of the house, disappear all night, and then end up cuddled on the couch with your personal trainer.


----------



## Trickster

CIBS...

I really think all of this is so blown out of proportion. Your initial concern was relatively benign and with the help of TAM has turned thin into a cancer that may shatter your marriage. This is truly a dis-service to you This is a self-fulling prophesy in action, one that may come true. The advise here on TAM has created a major lack of trust. You said it yourself. Without trust, there is no marriage. Why would you wife want to be married to a man who doesn't trust her... I guess misery lover company here on TAM. I still think there is nothing going on....


----------



## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> I really think all of this is so blown out of proportion. Your initial concern was relatively benign and with the help of TAM has turned thin into a cancer that may shatter your marriage. This is truly a dis-service to you This is a self-fulling prophesy in action, one that may come true. The advise here on TAM has created a major lack of trust. You said it yourself. Without trust, there is no marriage. Why would you wife want to be married to a man who doesn't trust her... I guess misery lover company here on TAM. I still think there is nothing going on....


Oh, of course, from the guy who himself is causing problems for a client's relationship by being inappropriately close to her.

Tell us again, how many married women are wet in the crotch from your "professional" grazing a few MM from their V's?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me. She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well. At this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long. I tried to explain but she was not listening. She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t. She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce. I've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything.


----------



## Cdelta02

So instead of trying to earn your trust, she throws it in your face?


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me. She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well. At this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long. I tried to explain but she was not listening. She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t. She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce. I've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything.


SHE IS GASLIGHTING. "Ask the forum"?! Why in the world can't she at least at this point, give you a definitive NO?

CIBS, you are being led like a calf to the slaughter. OF COURSE she is sleeping with the PT or else getting ready to. What other possible explanation can there be? Use your head.

You must stop trying to contact her. She is not interested in laying out the truth to you. In begging her back you are shifting the balance of power, and the conditions under which you will be married, to her permanently.

CIBS's wife: if you are lurking and reading, let's have it: Explain the nature of your relationship with this PT? Explain why you snuck out on your husband? Explain the texting? Explain the spooning incident?

Come clean. Don't disrespect this man more than you already have. He now thinks he's crazy. YOU KNOW HE'S NOT.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

As stated above, hold your resolve man. Even IF she wasn't sleeping with her, there was plenty of things that were Red Flags. A LOVING partner would understand that the perception of a betrayal is very powerful, and would WORK to get that impression out of their partners mind. Instead, she's mad. Not caring. MAD. "Privacy" is for your relationship to others - not for between each other. Especially not in light of the things you had already seen/come to know.


----------



## Chaparral

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> I really think all of this is so blown out of proportion. Your initial concern was relatively benign and with the help of TAM has turned thin into a cancer that may shatter your marriage. This is truly a dis-service to you This is a self-fulling prophesy in action, one that may come true. The advise here on TAM has created a major lack of trust. You said it yourself. Without trust, there is no marriage. Why would you wife want to be married to a man who doesn't trust her... I guess misery lover company here on TAM. I still think there is nothing going on....


While the relationship may be innocent, his wife has totally mishandled this. Would you leave your wife at the drop of a hat if she caught you spooning with another woman or man friend.

Since lesbianism has been shoved in everyones face, what else would you expect. And lesbians in sports is not a myth at all.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Cdelta02 said:


> So instead of trying to earn your trust, she throws it in your face?


Exactly. A damn manipulative liar. A narcissist calling the innocent one a narcissist.

CIBS's wife: hey, if this relationship with the PT is so important, and your husband is so bad, let's have the truth already. What do you have to lose?


----------



## mablenc

Cdelta02 said:


> So instead of trying to earn your trust, she throws it in your face?


I agree, CIBS, I'm sorry you are hurting. It seems to me the if your spouse thinks you are cheating, you would do anything to prove that you are not cheating. Sorry it has spiraled out of control. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ET1SSJonota

InlandTXMM said:


> SHE IS GASLIGHTING. "Ask the forum"?! Why in the world can't she at least at this point, give you a definitive NO?
> 
> CIBS, you are being led like a calf to the slaughter. OF COURSE she is sleeping with the PT or else getting ready to. What other possible explanation can there be? Use your head.
> 
> You must stop trying to contact her. She is not interested in laying out the truth to you. In begging her back you are shifting the balance of power, and the conditions under which you will be married, to her permanently.
> 
> *CIBS's wife: if you are lurking and reading, let's have it: Explain the nature of your relationship with this PT? Explain why you snuck out on your husband? Explain the texting? Explain the spooning incident?
> 
> Come clean. Don't disrespect this man more than you already have. He now thinks he's crazy. YOU KNOW HE'S NOT.*


CIBS's wife is clearly reading. I wonder if she realizes that at this point, after destroying him emotionally (which can take a toll physically), she's now working on doing so mentally. Bravo.


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## InlandTXMM

ET1SSJonota said:


> CIBS's wife is clearly reading. I wonder if she realizes that at this point, after destroying him emotionally (which can take a toll physically), she's now working on doing so mentally. Bravo.


F*cking EVIL. That's what it is.

And people think cheating is no big deal. This KILLS a person.


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## happyman64

CI bs

Your wife disrespects you e Pugh to sneak out of the house to go shopping and Drinking. 

Then. She comes home to spoon with her GF not you. 

She is playing games now. 

Tell your families what happened and why she is gone. 

And why are you upset? Because she chose someone else? Because she chose a woman over your marriage?

Keep calm. Exposé her actions and let them she chose to leave. 

You cannot trust her at this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me. She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well. At this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long. I tried to explain but she was not listening. She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t. She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce. I've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything.


Just re-read this again. Dude - SHE JUST TOLD YOU SHE WAS GOING TO THE P/T. She won't say the words, but she has fallen for another woman, and this woman will do what she can to keep her new lover by helping your wife justify what she's done.

You have every right to verify what a spouse does when they are not being forthcoming. There can be no secrecy in a marriage.

CIBS, you are NOT crazy. Your wife, without telling you, TOLD YOU. You were right.

Mods might want to move this to the Registered Users section now that his cheating wife is reading.


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## Chaparral

InlandTXMM said:


> Exactly. A damn manipulative liar. A narcissist calling the innocent one a narcissist.
> 
> CIBS's wife: hey, if this relationship with the PT is so important, and your husband is so bad, let's have the truth already. What do you have to lose?


Guess who told her he was a narcissist? Three guesses.


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## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me.[/B]Someone ,PT, has experience cheating* She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. Won't answer because she will not tell truth So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well. Again will deflect instead of telling the truth. If she wasn't, she would throw it in your faceAt this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long.  And did nothing to prove she was a great wife instead of a cheaterI tried to explain but she was not listening.she is the one who needs to explain her actions that look like two lesbians getting it on She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t. She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce.  Gosh, how long did it take her to dump you after she got caught. An innocent person would do everything in the world to save their marriageI've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything. No you haven't. She blew the marriage up without a doubt. Call her parents did she go home to them? The worse thing you can do is beg and plead, how does that look to anyone. Pack the rest of her stuff and take it her PT lover*


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## TRy

@OP: Ask yourself these questions. Why is she going straight to divorce instead of being mad at you and working it out? Even if you were wrong about her and the other woman, which you were not, is what she is mad about worth ending the marriage over? Is divorcing you for thinking that she was having an affair with another women and trying to protect your marriage reasonable if she valued you and the marraige? It is not like you have ever done this before, or like she did not give you any reason to be suspicious. 

The answer to these questions is that the real reason that she is willing to divorce you is because she does not want to go NC with the other woman. That given a choice between you and the other woman, she picks the other woman. Her willingness to divorce confirms, rather than disproves your concern. She is trying to shift blame back to you, so that if you do get back together it will be on her terms, which means that she gets to keep the other woman and without complaint or scrutiny by you. 

Now, ask yourself the following. Is her staying out late without telling you were she is going, coming home drunk, sleeping on the couch with the other woman, and spooning the other woman, OK with you as part of your marriage going forward? Is her getting nude back rubs, and making the other woman the priority in her daily life what you want in your marraige? Because if she even wants to stay in the marraige, that is the only marraige that she is willing to offer you right now. If you want to understand the situation that you are really in, imagine that the PT was a man, and view the situation from that light.


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## Thor

CIBS,

I don't think you are crazy, nor do I think you mishandled it. If, and it seems like a long shot to me, _if_ there is nothing untoward going on, your wife has not put your marriage ahead of her own interests. She could have come to you at any time and asked how to work on rebuilding trust. Instead, still assuming no affair(s) of any kind, she decided to avoid discussing things which might be difficult.

How does she know of the forum????????

I think she's been monitoring _you_.

She did not find this thread by random luck. I think she's got some kind of keylogger or spycam set up on you.

What would make her suspicious enough to go searching for your spycam and VAR you had hidden? Would an innocent person expect such things?

Gaslighting is evil. You know what you know, which is enough to have further questions and suspicions. Don't let her define what you know/feel/believe.


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## InlandTXMM

TRy said:


> Her willingness to divorce confirms, rather than disproves your concern. She is trying to shift blame back to you, so that if you do get back together it will be on her terms, which means that she gets to keep the other woman and without complaint or scrutiny by you.


BINGO. She's doing one of two things:

1) She's headed for D because she's switched teams. At least for now.

2) She knows how weak he's been and believes giving him the ultimate bluff will put him back "in his place", so she can continue as usual.

CIBS, she's been reading this forum. She's taken our advice seriously, even if you haven't. She knows that WE know what she's up to, even if you were only starting to accept it. That means trouble to the life she's enjoying now. She sees the end of it is near, and she doesn't want it to end.

With this action she is testing your resolve. She thinks you're too weak to hold your ground, and so far, she's been right.

If you had followed the advice given here, she knows that she will be expected to return to the marriage, that her secret double-life stuff is over with, and that she will be held accountable for her actions. She DOES NOT WANT THAT. So, she decides to blow it up first, get you on your knees, and then only when she is ready (that means after she's done the nasty with the PT to her satisfaction and you've been sufficiently punished for daring to have some balls), will she allow you to approach and kiss the ring.


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## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me. She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. *I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well.* At this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long. I tried to explain but she was not listening.* She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t.* She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce. I've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything.


An innocent person, when directly questioned, almost always directly denies the accusation. "Are you having sex with her?" "NO! I am not!" 

A guilty person, when directly questioned, almost always answers indirectly. "Are you having sex with her?" "She's my trainer" or "I am married to you" or "Ask the forum." None of which answer the question.

Assuming that in all these years you have never once told her who she can see and who she cannot see, it is very strange that she would put up so much resistance over giving up a personal trainer or a best friend, especially considering how bad it looked and how she did not do very much to assuage your concerns.

I don't recall a single post where you or anyone else referred to her as a slvt. That's something else a guilty person tries to do, is blow it up and make you out to be the bad guy, not them. What she has been called here is a cheater, not a slvt. It's like if you said she had a few too many drinks the other day, and she comes back with "no one ever called me an alcoholic before." It's a tactic to make you seem like you are overreacting to the real issue. Which you are not.


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## InlandTXMM

It amazes me how, nearly every one of us insist on making our own path through this infidelity minefield, even while there are dozens of people on the other side, most with burns and scars from their own walk through it, screaming at us to get on the path that's already been established.


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## CouldItBeSo

This is getting worse... Had a talk on phone with MIL today. Wife had talked with her earlier and is making me the bad guy in all this. MIL asked why I was secretly video recording my wife's trainer in our apartment. Apparently wife had 'found' a video on my PC (from the pen cam) where there is only the PT alone in our spare training room stretching or doing yoga whatever in what MIL described as 'skimpy outfit' and wife is nowhere to be seen. No suprise she belives her daughter why not she's always been the prefect model child to her.

@ happyman64: Why I'm upset? Because, she is my first real love and yet after all this I still love her more than anything and can't snap it off like she obviously did. I really thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with this woman.

Wife didn't say where she was staying she ordered a maxi cab and took her bike with her. But I figured that much no need to be a rocket scientist to realise where she went.


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## ET1SSJonota

Did you tell the MIL what has happened?


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## InlandTXMM

Blood is thicker than water. Momma will most assuredly not want to believe ANYTHING is wrong with her entitled, precious, very spoiled little girl.

This is why we advised you to EXPOSE it early on. Cheaters lie. They blame-shift. They minimize. They trickle truth, and most importantly, they do everything they can to maintain their innocence and keep that fog as thick as possible. 

Now you need to lay out to her mom why you even had the cam in the first place. Once you expose, you will next see her JUSTIFY the affair. She was unhappy. You were controlling. The ILYBNILWY stuff. "We drifted apart." This is all part of the script. Cheaters rarely deviate.

Hell, send Mom to this forum for evidence and your rationale, since the forum is already in your wife's hands. Certianly this forum, and how staunchly you tried NOT to believe your wife was capable of this, might show her you were only trying to save your marriage.


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## happyman64

Your upset because you realize you have no control over the situation. You also do not have the truth. First love. I get that. But if she loved you she would not be selfish or acting like a child. 

Let her go. See an attorney. 

And calm down. Secure your finances. 

Go dark and leave her alone with her decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> This is getting worse... Had a talk on phone with MIL today. Wife had talked with her earlier and is making me the bad guy in all this. MIL asked why I was secretly video recording my wife's trainer in our apartment. Apparently wife had 'found' a video on my PC (from the pen cam) where there is only the PT alone in our spare training room stretching or doing yoga whatever in what MIL described as 'skimpy outfit' and wife is nowhere to be seen. No suprise she belives her daughter why not she's always been the prefect model child to her.


Did you tell your MIL that your wife is having an affair with her PT? 



> Wife didn't say where she was staying she ordered a maxi cab and took her bike with her. But I figured that much no need to be a rocket scientist to realise where she went.


Did you tell your MIL that her perfect daughter has moved in with the PT?


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## Shaggy

This goes back to how easily the wife claimed to have dumped the PT after you caught them.

Way to easily.


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## Shaggy

Oh and when you wife ends up in a relationship with the PT the people you expose to now will know you weren't crazy.

That's one reason to expose what you think to people like MIL. Unfortunately, many people seem to go out of their way to accommodate and support women who decide to switch teams and cheat. Basically coming out as a lesbian becomes as giant get out jail card for cheaters.


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## old_soldier

TO THE WIFE OF COULDITBE SO;

Since your current behaviour displays what a cold, heartless, coward you can be, and you don't seem to want to come here and explain your side of the storey, I'm going to make this as easy for you as possible; 

whether you have become a lesbian or not, your actions show that you are now pitching for the other team. Married straight women do not get nude massages in their own bedroom from other women. Married straight women do not "spoon" with other women all night long. 

Because of your failure to explain these lesbian like behaviors in a satifactory way to your husband, he was forced to take action in the best way he knew how. He came here for advice, and in my opinion got really good and justified advice. 

IT WAS YOUR COWARDICE that started all of this, it was your manipulation that allowed it to go this far, and yes your "girlfreind" facilitated it. 

The VARs, the GPS, everything is a result of YOUR manipulations and lack of honour. IMHO you have no integrity whatsoever and your lack of loyalty to your family is astounding.

Just make sure when you tell your folks your husband (you know the man you disrespected, belittled and demeaned) is dumping your cheating azz, you explain to them you have crossed the road and are noe pitching for the other team, that you are untrustworthy as a wife, and are really uncareing of anybody else's feelings but your own.

When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences!


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## happyman64

Good response old soldier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

CouldItBeSo said:


> Where to start... yesterday after a couple hours of silent treatment she suddenly came and threw the spy cam at my face. Then she went into our bedroom ripped off the var and threw it at the floor in front of me. She then stated she's leaving and is going to pack her bags. I asked why and where is she going and she said guess... don't I know already. So I asked if she's sleeping with her and if I was right. She said ask the forum since they all knew her so well. At this point it became obvious that she's been following this thread who knows how long. I tried to explain but she was not listening. She said I'm the first person ever thinking if she is a sl*t. She said she thinks I'm a narcissist and she's had enough and wants a divorce. I've been texting and trying to call her all day but she's not answering. I'm a mess right now don't know what to do... I really fvcked up everything.


She was "in the know" all the time. Clearly *the text was a set up*. She did it to humilliate you but she had the fight/leaving already planned. 
She knows damm well you were pissed off with reason. I'm sure she likely encouraged PT to put their picture in her web on porpouse, again, as a punishment. How dares he... pure narcissistic lash out.
What a shame to **** on his husband feelings and mind this way. And now the mindf0cker pretend OP is a voyeur too much interested in her innocent PT. Already gaslighting MIL.
Please, OP, set her straight. You were fighting for you marriage becuase you love her. The rest is all smoke screens to deflect responsability.


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## NewM

Accept her divorce,she left you to go sleep with her GF.Treat it as if she went to sleep with another man.You didn't fvck up anything,she did.


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## the guy

Its time to move this thread to private


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## Acabado

Yep
PM a moderator.


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## Chaparral

I don't think so. Its time to send the mother in law, the wife , their friends and especially the PT an invite to see what is going on and let them all explain themselves.

HOW DID YOU ANSWER YOUR MOTHER IN LAW.? Invite her here. Go see her if you can and show her this thread.


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## Cdelta02

CouldItBeSo said:


> This is getting worse... Had a talk on phone with MIL today. Wife had talked with her earlier and is making me the bad guy in all this. MIL asked why I was secretly video recording my wife's trainer in our apartment. Apparently wife had 'found' a video on my PC (from the pen cam) where there is only the PT alone in our spare training room stretching or doing yoga whatever in what MIL described as 'skimpy outfit' and wife is nowhere to be seen. No suprise she belives her daughter why not she's always been the prefect model child to her.
> 
> @ happyman64: Why I'm upset? Because, she is my first real love and yet after all this I still love her more than anything and can't snap it off like she obviously did. I really thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with this woman.
> 
> Wife didn't say where she was staying she ordered a maxi cab and took her bike with her. But I figured that much no need to be a rocket scientist to realise where she went.



THIS! I wonder if you had some doubts about whether you did the right thing listening to TAM? If so, this should lay it to rest. 

Since she knows why you were recording and what your concerns were, dont you think her positioning to her Mother speaks volumes? She isnt telling her M why you were really recording. She isnt telling her she read your thread here and your concerns. Instead she feeds her some BS making you the bad guy.

Why dont you tell your MIL the truth - you were recording because you suspect her D is a closet lesb. And her behavior just confirmed that.


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## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> This is getting worse... Had a talk on phone with MIL today. *Wife had talked with her earlier and is making me the bad guy in all this.*
> 
> she is my first real love and yet after all this I still love her more than anything and can't snap it off like she obviously did. I really thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with this woman.


You cannot be surprised by this. Your wife has minimized this relationship, omitted key facts, and openly lied to you, she even snuck out of your house to see her "friend"; what kind of adult sneaks out of her own house?

Have you read any of the other threads here? These cheaters all pull the same stuff, don't they? First, they are the ones who break the vows and break your heart, then they make up lies about it. Surely if your wife had read this thread she knew why you were feeling what you were feeling, and she has done nothing to set it straight. Instead, she is using it as an excuse to make you out to be the bad guy and to tell her mother that you wanted to see her friend in a skimpy outfit.

Please email a link to this thread to your mother-in-law, you have said nothing terrible about your wife here, and your wife surely would have some explaining to do. Heck, printout the thread and mail it to her certified mail, send it through UPS, or FedEx. Hire a private investigator to hand deliver it to your wife's mother, and then have the private investigator follow your wife and find out what she's up to with her trainer "friend."

Given that she's reading this thread now, she's taking action to let her mother know NOT to look at this thread for some reason or another. There is nothing you can do about that. Some parents will always side with their kids no matter what, it was that way when I was 10 years old and it's still that way today.

You better buy a VAR and carry it with you at all times, because your wife is going to go all out to prevent her mother and family from finding out what's going on. It will be quite a shock after all these years for her mother to find out that her daughter's sexual orientation is not what she thought it was and she's a cheater to boot.


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## ace21

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> I really think all of this is so blown out of proportion. Your initial concern was relatively benign and with the help of TAM has turned thin into a cancer that may shatter your marriage. This is truly a dis-service to you This is a self-fulling prophesy in action, one that may come true. The advise here on TAM has created a major lack of trust. You said it yourself. Without trust, there is no marriage. Why would you wife want to be married to a man who doesn't trust her... I guess misery lover company here on TAM. I still think there is nothing going on....



Wow, this is quite the sad bizarre saga. OP Im very sorry for you. 
Im not sure if this is as benign as Trickster thinks it is.
Too many things don't add up.
Advice here has not created lack of trust the OP's wife had a big part of that. 
It seems the wife is 1 step ahead of her husband. Why would she be monitoring him ?? 
If she is reading this page she will know he is trying to save the marriage, and he has indicated many time how he loves her and the regard and respect he has for his wife.

If I was the OP's wife (and totally innocent) I'd be shocked with this forum but at the same time pleased that my partner would go to this effort to save the relationship and if it is a totally "benign" situation with the PT I would deep six the PT without batting an eyelid.
The PT is toxic to the marriage and if wife read this forum (which she should) she certainly knows the harm this women has brought into their home.

Also her picture on the PT's page is a big FU to the husband, Its totally disrespectful to the marriage and the wife cetainly knows that and seems to be fine with it.
Also telling the MIL that her husband is setting up cameras and implying he's some kind of pervert is really low.

If OP's wife was concerned about saving the marrige and restoring trust her actions would reveal that.

Trickster, this forum may be full of bitter, angry, betrayed people and the advice may not be what one wants to hear but it is realistic advice coming from people who have been down this path. I don't like a lot of what i read here...it often assumes the worst possible in people but sadly its usually true.

I went through a devastating divorce several years ago , and I wish I would have known about TAM at that time, I went through it all alone. I just muddled through it in a daze, had very little support and guidance. 

There's is something very valuable about the collective knowledge/wisdom that is here, and the advice and support in navigating through all this unpleasantness is very valuable.

OP please stay strong, you seem like decent person and you deserve someone who loves and truly repects you. 
DO NOT BE HER DOORMAT
It really is better to find this out now rather then later after kids, house etc...
If she wants to save the relationship she knows exactly what to do.


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## Shaggy

Post the PT on cheaterville tonight, let everyone know she is a predator determined to undermine marriages.


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## moxy

You can't save the marriage if she isn't into it anymore. It's gotta be commitment from both sides. Let her go. 180 entirely. Either she realizes what she's losing and commits to you fully or she doesn't care enough to try and you're better off without her drama. You deserve better than a liar and a cheat who is willing to throw you under the bus to save her own skin from the mess she has made.


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## See_Listen_Love

CIBS, sorry for you man. But you really will be better off if you straighten your back and face the reality. The future will bring sunshine again!

CIBS's wife: For you also there is only one healing way out of this mess. 

Come clean to him, because in time everybody will know the truth, whatever you tell them now. You will be saving yourself a lot of reputation damage if you come out now.


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## Trickster

CIBS...

Think about it if you want to damage the credibility of the personal trainer. Unless you are 100% confident all this is true and you can prove it you may find yourself in a lawsuit because of Slander/defamation of character. Now TAM wants you to commit a crime!


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## Shaggy

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> Think about it if you want to damage the credibility of the personal trainer. Unless you are 100% confident all this is true and you can prove it you may find yourself in a lawsuit because of Slander/defamation of character. Now TAM wants you to commit a crime!


So he posts the facts as he knows them and does no embellish.


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## happyman64

CIBS

I said a prayer for you and your wife last night.

My prayer was that you get all the truth. That you will remain strong in character and resolve during this crisis.

My prayer for your wife was that she is honest with you. That she is honest with herself.

And that her selfish decisions end soon and that she communicates in an honest, open fashion like you tried with her.

Maybe she forget that you two are also supposed to be friends.

HM64

.


----------



## Thoreau

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> Think about it if you want to damage the credibility of the personal trainer. Unless you are 100% confident all this is true and you can prove it you may find yourself in a lawsuit because of Slander/defamation of character. Now TAM wants you to commit a crime!


Slander is not a criminal offense. If it is true, there is no slander/libel. If it is expressed as opinion, there is no slander/libel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

InlandTXMM said:


> Hell, send Mom to this forum for evidence and your rationale, since the forum is already in your wife's hands. Certianly this forum, and how staunchly you tried NOT to believe your wife was capable of this, might show her you were only trying to save your marriage.


Quoted for truth

This should answer whether she accidentally found tam.

CIBS. Did you leave the video in the downloads folder and forget to either erase web history or use private browsing.


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## CouldItBeSo

I told my side of the story to MIL when we spoke on the phone. She didn't clearly take sides but did not dismiss her daughter's story either. I don't want her here on this forum. I've thought about this and it is not her issue to solve this is between me and my wife. I have to realise there might be nothing I can do to fix this.

I am probably not going to go after the PT. Besides the fact I really have no proof of anything, the truth is my wife is the one who is married. The PT is single. This may sound gross but judging by the comments I saw on the PT's pics on her page (from other women) I could see her clientele actually going up if it was brought to public that she allegedly is into women.

I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


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## ET1SSJonota

If she knew anything about what was going on, then how would she come up with a story about you ogling the PT? That's straight out lying no matter how you spin it. You told her what was bothering you - which should explain if not "justify" to her why the camera and VAR were there. Again, a caring, loving partner could be hurt by this, but also understand and empathize with how you felt. She didn't even come close to this.


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## happyman64

CIBS

Maybe your right. Maybe your wife is on the up and up with the trainer.

Maybe your wife is crying and sneaking out on you because she no longer wants to be married to you???

Well if she is your friend and is your wife, why not tell you.

You only reacted to the situation.

Has your wife contacted you since she left?


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## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> Quoted for truth
> 
> This should answer whether she accidentally found tam.
> 
> CIBS. Did you leave the video in the downloads folder and forget to either erase web history or use private browsing.


I don't use private browsing as it makes certain pages not to work properly. It must have been a slip from me not removing the history. I don't have a password for my laptop so she could have looked into it anytime. But again she did not say how she got in here. The video is in the documents folder (Win7) and seemingly it's the only one. I really thought I deleted all after watching them. Obviously this looks bad if my wife really had no idea before she saw it. She might be thinking I'm just gaslighting her just now. I have no idea as we haven't spoken since she left.


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## ET1SSJonota

Is she ignoring or you haven't made any attempt at communication and are just waiting for her?


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## ET1SSJonota

I would send her an explanation - that it looked terrible, you wanted verification. She already knows you were afraid of something going on with PT. There is no justification for leaving - other than to prove your fears well-founded. 
That isn't to say you need to kow-tow to her. It "appears" she's checked out. Maybe she has. Clear your conscience, because you did nothing WRONG. Unless there is some unwritten rule regarding her needing to keep secrets from you?


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## weightlifter

ET1SSJonota said:


> I would send her an explanation - that it looked terrible, you wanted verification. She already knows you were afraid of something going on with PT. There is no justification for leaving - other than to prove your fears well-founded.
> That isn't to say you need to kow-tow to her. It "appears" she's checked out. Maybe she has. Clear your conscience, because you did nothing WRONG. Unless there is some unwritten rule regarding her needing to keep secrets from you?


Dude, she's BEEN here. She ALREADY KNOWS everything why he did it.

Methinks the friend gym meeting and him getting caught was a BIG SETUP. I'm guesstimating she was unhappy before. Whether its the pt or just unhappy... Time will tell. Funny thing is. If it comes out later EVER wife plus PT... The answer would be obvious. 

Too bad op didn't think to get pic of them spooning. Yea I know. Hindsight is 20 20.

I would hold off on general public outing until wife and pt move in together. Family now. Cheaterville later.


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## ET1SSJonota

weightlifter said:


> Dude, she's BEEN here. She ALREADY KNOWS everything why he did it.
> Methinks the friend gym meeting and him getting caught was a BIG SETUP. I'm guesstimating she was unhappy before. Whether its the pt or just unhappy... Time will tell. Funny thing is. If it comes out later EVER wife plus PT... The answer would be obvious.
> Too bad op didn't think to get pic of them spooning. Yea I know. Hindsight is 20 20.


I'm not so sure she has been. She may know about him posting on a forum, but there is a possibility she hasn't actually read it all. There's also the possibility she had a feeling he was spying on her, read up on anti-spying stuff, and got led to likely VAR/cam places. Just a possibility. Can't hurt to ensure she knows, can it?


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


 You had good reason to suspect that your wife was cheating on you. She was naked in bed with the other person under suspicious circumstances. She partied hard without telling you where she was going and you discovered them sleeping and cuddling together for gosh sakes. As a loving husband, you would be an idiot not to investigate. Do not feel bad for caring about your marraige. 

Her discovering that you were spying on her does not mean that she was not cheating, and does not explain why she would want to divorce you if she really was still in love with you. Cheaters always want you to believe that snooping is a bigger violation of trust than cheating. They are wrong.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Well, it would seem to me that CouldItBeSo is not posting here anymore because his cheating wife found his thread. If that is the case and she is reading these replies, this is for you(cheating wife).

You've at LEAST been havving an inappropriate relationship with your PT. My guess is you've actually been having sex with her. You feel that you have won this battle, I'm sure. You will however ultimatley loose the war. Your low moral standards will catch up with you some day, they ALWAYS do. And when it happens, I hope CouldItBeSo finds out about it and posts about your fall from grace here, for all to see.

CouldItBeSo, I'm sorry you're going through this. I know you don't believe it right now, but you CAN do better than your wife and you WILL. Trust me, these things have a way of working them selves out. You will then realize you deserved a woman that was much better than your wife(stbxw) could EVER be.

Take care.


----------



## weightlifter

Looking back when reading she saw CIBS immediately at the gym. Setup!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> I told my side of the story to MIL when we spoke on the phone. She didn't clearly take sides but did not dismiss her daughter's story either. I don't want her here on this forum. I've thought about this and it is not her issue to solve this is between me and my wife. I have to realise there might be nothing I can do to fix this.
> 
> I am probably not going to go after the PT. Besides the fact I really have no proof of anything, the truth is my wife is the one who is married. The PT is single. This may sound gross but judging by the comments I saw on the PT's pics on her page (from other women) I could see her clientele actually going up if it was brought to public that she allegedly is into women.
> 
> I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


Your MIL sounds like a very intelligent woman. I'm glad she, the PT and your wife convinced you that you were wrong. It is your marriage and I hope they work it out for you. In the end, I hope they fix your unhappiness.

Good luck.


----------



## TRy

*Snooping is not the reason that your marriage is heading to its end. It was already heading to its end, which is why you were snooping.*


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

To be fair, spooning and snooping are the same if you move the "n" around so, I guess they are equal???


----------



## InlandTXMM

I also felt the guilt about snooping when I had to grab her phone for the first time while she slept. 

This is a Nice Guy (beta) trait. I know, because I was one, though not to the degree CIBS is. It was this site that literally saved my marriage by giving me the courage to fight for it. 

As a husband, CIBS has every right to check on the situation to his satisfaction. His wife is the culprit here, not him. His wife is not a single woman - she chose to be part of a committed relationship. The two became one. 

And the last two or three pages of this thread shows what a masterful gaslighter she is. This is not about snooping. This is about a wayward wife and a lesbian lover.

Until he asserts himself, his wife will be a wayward one, and then eventually an ex. Even then, though, I think her respect for him was gone long before she started sleeping with the PT, and he has a long road back. I wish him well but can't do this for him.

CIBS, when it was my turn to be where you are, though not exactly the same circumstances, the emotional turmoil was the same. The fear was the same. My strong desire to blame myself and look the other way was the same. The ONLY thing that brought my wife back and saved my family was when I as the husband and MAN took the reigns again. I called my wife on her nonsense. I demanded a stop to her behavior. I was very clear in what I was willing to accept in her behavior going forward. I set boundaries and rules.

I am now much more dominant in my relationship than I have ever been, or even believed was possible in this hyper-feminist world. But it worked. It may not save this marriage, but it will give your next one a fighting chance.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS, here's the logic your wife is trying to foist upon you.


----------



## mablenc

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> Think about it if you want to damage the credibility of the personal trainer. Unless you are 100% confident all this is true and you can prove it you may find yourself in a lawsuit because of Slander/defamation of character. Now TAM wants you to commit a crime!


I disagree, if the trainer is certified there should be a code of conduct. I'm sure it does not include passing out drunk I'm your clients home (spooning). 

Also, the massaging, is she licensed? This could also be reported if she is not. This is like hiring a plumer to work on your TV and passing out drunk in your home.

If she is licensed, then she should report it to the state as well. 

Regardless if it is an affair or not the Trainer has been very unprofessional and should be reported.


----------



## mablenc

Certified Personal Trainer Code of Ethics
*
NCSF Certified Personal Trainers - as members of the Health profession, have ethical responsibilities to their employers, clients, society, as well as to other health professionals. The following ethical foundations for professional activities in the field of personal training and health promotion serve as a Code of Conduct for practicing professionals. The Code implements many of these foundations in the form of rules of ethical conduct. Noncompliance with the Code may affect an individual's initial or continuing status as a recognized certified professional by the National Council on Strength & Fitness Board for Certification.
*
Ethical Foundations
*
I. The Trainer-Client relationship: The welfare of the client is central to all considerations in the trainer-client relationship. Included in this relationship is the obligation of the trainer to respect the rights of clients, colleagues, and other health professionals. Trainers have an obligation to communicate only factual information and never misrepresent competency on any level particularly one that is outside the scope of the profession. Trainers must respect that the right of a client to make his/her own choices about his/her health activities is fundamental. The principle of justice requires strict avoidance of discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or any other basis that would constitute illegal discrimination (justice).
*
II. Trainer conduct and practice: The personal trainer should only deal honestly with clients and colleagues. This includes not misrepresenting himself or herself through any form of communication in an untruthful, misleading, or deceptive manner. Furthermore, maintenance of professional competence through study, application, and enhancement of health and fitness knowledge and skills is an obligation of the practicing personal trainer. All personal trainers certified by the NCSF are required to participate in, and report, continued learning. NCSF certified professionals are obligated to respond to evidence of questionable conduct or unethical behavior by any other NCSF member through appropriate procedures established by the NCSF Board for Certification.
*
III. Avoiding conflicts of interest: Potential conflicts of interest are inherent in the practice of the personal trainer. Personal trainers are expected to recognize such situations and deal with them in accordance with the best interests of the client.
*
IV. Professional relations: The personal trainer should respect and cooperate with other personal trainers, fitness instructors, and allied health professionals. Personal Trainers should not participate in activities of a professional nature, nor represent themselves as qualified to perform tasks, which are outside the scope of the personal trainer profession. NCSF certified professionals have an obligation to identify those individuals perpetrating acts that are professionally inappropriate.
*
V. Societal responsibilities: The personal trainer has a continuing responsibility to society as a whole and should support and participate in activities that enhance the community. As a member of society, the personal trainer must respect the laws of that society. As professionals and representatives of the NCSF, personal trainers are required to uphold the dignity and honor of the profession and comply with professional standards of practice.
*
Code of Conduct
*
I. Client-Trainer Relationship
*
1. The Client-Trainer relationship is the central focus of all ethical concerns, and the welfare of the client should form the basis of all judgments.
*
2. The Trainer should serve the client by exercising all reasonable means to ensure that the most appropriate training, health and fitness recommendations are provided to the client.
*
3. The Client-Trainer relationship has an ethical basis and is built on confidentiality, trust, and honesty. The trainer must adhere to all applicable legal or contractual constraints while in the client-trainer relationship.
*
4. Sexual misconduct on the part of the trainer is an abuse of professional power and a violation of client trust. Sexual contact or a romantic relationship between a trainer and a current client is always unethical.
*
5. The trainer has an obligation to obtain the informed consent of each client. In obtaining informed consent for any course of physical measurement or activity, the trainer should present to the client, or to the person legally responsible for the client, in understandable terms, pertinent facts and recommendations consistent with good professional practice. Such information should include alternate modes of testing or physical activity and the objectives, risks, benefits, possible complications, and anticipated results of such activities or testing protocols.
*
6. It is unethical to recommend, refer, prescribe, provide, or seek compensation for therapies or products that are of no benefit to the client.
*
7. The trainer should respect the rights of clients, colleagues, and others and safeguard client information and confidences within the limits of the law. If during the process of providing information for consent it is known that results of a particular test or other information must be given to governmental authorities or other third parties, it should be identified and explained to the client.
*
8. The trainer should not discriminate against clients based on race, color, national origin, religion, or on any other basis that would constitute illegal discrimination. This being said, trainers should know their professional limitations and not engage in exercise prescription for clients with special needs that the trainer is not educated or trained to manage safely or effectively.


Number 4 and 6 are very clear,

NCSF Certified Personal Trainer Code of Ethics : NCSF

If she is certifed by another organization, then find the code of conduct. They are all about the same.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I told my side of the story to MIL when we spoke on the phone. She didn't clearly take sides but did not dismiss her daughter's story either. I don't want her here on this forum. I've thought about this and it is not her issue to solve this is between me and my wife. I have to realise there might be nothing I can do to fix this.
> 
> I am probably not going to go after the PT. Besides the fact I really have no proof of anything, the truth is my wife is the one who is married. The PT is single. This may sound gross but judging by the comments I saw on the PT's pics on her page (from other women) I could see her clientele actually going up if it was brought to public that she allegedly is into women.
> 
> I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


Here is the problem with your logic here. How long did she follow the thread. If she knew you were this upset she could have easily asked why you are so upset. You were being vigilant and you were making sure your marriage was safe and intact. You have come to far to be suckered. This could just be posturing a last ditch effort for her to break free. You are making a mistake in calling her now. Your questions should be why wouldn't she care enough to talk to you? Why would she let you be scared and worried that your marriage was falling apart? She read the forum thread and all it is, is a man who is scared that is wife is betraying him and he was taking the steps necessary to protect his marriage. This is your life my friend you wanted a life with this person. Not a few years you are in it for a life time and that is a life time wasted if your wife is not willing to make that same commitment. You deserve to know the truth. Her running out that door is not a good sign. I get the being angry about the forum and some of the things you said. But you did so with anonymity. No one will know who she or you are. You could be my neighbor and that is the power of this site because you can be honest here. In your anger and confusion you may have said things about her you regret. But you were angry you were confused and your wife hasn't even tried to empathize. That to me, her lack of empathy, is what stands out. 
She didn't know about the var, the camera, or anything else until she saw this thread. And her reaction wasn't. "How did I get my husband to this point?" 
Her reaction was "oh my gosh what if someone I know finds out?" She bailed to cover her butt. You need to stop calling, you need to start telling people what happened, because you can bet she will start singing like a canary about your stalking and without any context your friends will likely take her side. You have to eliminate any and all support she might find. Because all it takes is one or two people to reinforce her, to keep her in the fog. So right now it is time to gear up for war. You are now fighting for your marriage and you can win but, being a complete mess will not help you. Get yourself together, get a game plan, and act on it. Time is not on your side. If you need help get a game plan just ask but number one right now is exposing.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


CIBS, you are NOT your wife's "friend". You are her only, solitary, committed mate and life partner (or at least, she VOWED you would be). Where in the world did you think you guys are supposed to treat each other as friends?

And for that matter, would you allow a friend, a real friend, to continue to treat you this way? Never. So why do you step up to take abuse from the one person in the world who is supposed to love you and care for you the most?


----------



## InlandTXMM

mablenc said:


> Certified Personal Trainer Code of Ethics
> *
> NCSF Certified Personal Trainers - as members of the Health profession, have ethical responsibilities to their employers, clients, society, as well as to other health professionals. The following ethical foundations for professional activities in the field of personal training and health promotion serve as a Code of Conduct for practicing professionals. The Code implements many of these foundations in the form of rules of ethical conduct. Noncompliance with the Code may affect an individual's initial or continuing status as a recognized certified professional by the National Council on Strength & Fitness Board for Certification.
> *
> Ethical Foundations
> *
> I. The Trainer-Client relationship: The welfare of the client is central to all considerations in the trainer-client relationship. Included in this relationship is the obligation of the trainer to respect the rights of clients, colleagues, and other health professionals. Trainers have an obligation to communicate only factual information and never misrepresent competency on any level particularly one that is outside the scope of the profession. Trainers must respect that the right of a client to make his/her own choices about his/her health activities is fundamental. The principle of justice requires strict avoidance of discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or any other basis that would constitute illegal discrimination (justice).
> *
> II. Trainer conduct and practice: The personal trainer should only deal honestly with clients and colleagues. This includes not misrepresenting himself or herself through any form of communication in an untruthful, misleading, or deceptive manner. Furthermore, maintenance of professional competence through study, application, and enhancement of health and fitness knowledge and skills is an obligation of the practicing personal trainer. All personal trainers certified by the NCSF are required to participate in, and report, continued learning. NCSF certified professionals are obligated to respond to evidence of questionable conduct or unethical behavior by any other NCSF member through appropriate procedures established by the NCSF Board for Certification.
> *
> III. Avoiding conflicts of interest: Potential conflicts of interest are inherent in the practice of the personal trainer. Personal trainers are expected to recognize such situations and deal with them in accordance with the best interests of the client.
> *
> IV. Professional relations: The personal trainer should respect and cooperate with other personal trainers, fitness instructors, and allied health professionals. Personal Trainers should not participate in activities of a professional nature, nor represent themselves as qualified to perform tasks, which are outside the scope of the personal trainer profession. NCSF certified professionals have an obligation to identify those individuals perpetrating acts that are professionally inappropriate.
> *
> V. Societal responsibilities: The personal trainer has a continuing responsibility to society as a whole and should support and participate in activities that enhance the community. As a member of society, the personal trainer must respect the laws of that society. As professionals and representatives of the NCSF, personal trainers are required to uphold the dignity and honor of the profession and comply with professional standards of practice.
> *
> Code of Conduct
> *
> I. Client-Trainer Relationship
> *
> 1. The Client-Trainer relationship is the central focus of all ethical concerns, and the welfare of the client should form the basis of all judgments.
> *
> 2. The Trainer should serve the client by exercising all reasonable means to ensure that the most appropriate training, health and fitness recommendations are provided to the client.
> *
> 3. The Client-Trainer relationship has an ethical basis and is built on confidentiality, trust, and honesty. The trainer must adhere to all applicable legal or contractual constraints while in the client-trainer relationship.
> *
> 4. Sexual misconduct on the part of the trainer is an abuse of professional power and a violation of client trust. Sexual contact or a romantic relationship between a trainer and a current client is always unethical.
> *
> 5. The trainer has an obligation to obtain the informed consent of each client. In obtaining informed consent for any course of physical measurement or activity, the trainer should present to the client, or to the person legally responsible for the client, in understandable terms, pertinent facts and recommendations consistent with good professional practice. Such information should include alternate modes of testing or physical activity and the objectives, risks, benefits, possible complications, and anticipated results of such activities or testing protocols.
> *
> 6. It is unethical to recommend, refer, prescribe, provide, or seek compensation for therapies or products that are of no benefit to the client.
> *
> 7. The trainer should respect the rights of clients, colleagues, and others and safeguard client information and confidences within the limits of the law. If during the process of providing information for consent it is known that results of a particular test or other information must be given to governmental authorities or other third parties, it should be identified and explained to the client.
> *
> 8. The trainer should not discriminate against clients based on race, color, national origin, religion, or on any other basis that would constitute illegal discrimination. This being said, trainers should know their professional limitations and not engage in exercise prescription for clients with special needs that the trainer is not educated or trained to manage safely or effectively.
> 
> 
> Number 4 and 6 are very clear,
> 
> NCSF Certified Personal Trainer Code of Ethics : NCSF
> 
> If she is certifed by another organization, then find the code of conduct. They are all about the same.


.... waiting for Trickster to show back up with a, "Yeah, but..."


----------



## mablenc

I'll get my helmet!


----------



## Machiavelli

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Your MIL sounds like a very intelligent woman. *I'm glad she, the PT and your wife convinced you that you were wrong.*


Easily done with an assist from CIBS himself. As we know, BH's have their own rationalization hamster and CIBS's is running his wheel off. Serve her, she's guilty as hell.

CIBS, I should have linked this for you a long time ago: What Do Women Want. It's about female sexual fluidity. Obviously, this is very applicable to your situation. My apologies for not doing so earlier.


----------



## Trickster

CIBS…

I am definitely the odd man out here… I’ll even stress odd. I’ll bet the marriage seemed almost perfect. I know the forum will say something about that. No matter what happens here, there is no easy answer.

If your wife is cheating and heavy into a lesbian affair with her trainer, you already lost her. If she is being totally honest with you and you did all the things behind her back, may have been so overwhelming for her. You said she probably didn’t even know what bisexual was… Honestly…VAR usually reveals an affair quickly. You had it up for over a week and nothing. (that initial massage, however weird it was, was just a massage). 

So not only have you lost your wife, but you also lost your best friend. My wife is my best friend. There is nothing wrong with that. You wife now has a good support system with her mom, trainer, and co-workers. 

I know you’re not ready to let the love of your life go. She feels you don’t trust her. NOBODY here on TAM has a vested interest in your happiness. They won’t be here to pick up the pieces of your shattered marriage.

Instead of kicking your wife to the curb, we have to find a solution to fix it. 

The first step is forgiveness. 

Tell her that the massage freaked you out and didn't know what to think of it and you turned to TAM for advise and it got out of hand. This is YOUR life and marriage at stake. 

I may be the fool here because everybody says that I am. Go with what is in your heart. I think you wife is hurting. 

I think your wife got drunk that night because she was so upset with the massage/trust thing. Maybe the spooning was just to piss you off and it backfired.


----------



## weightlifter

Ill agree with Trick on one thing. You two should have a single MC with no holds barred. I still smell a setup when she found him. In fact... I bet that was her test to see if this was his thread!

Sorry the spooning thing and massage on bed thing are creepy.


----------



## bfree

Trickster said:


> CIBS…
> 
> I am definitely the odd man out here… I’ll even stress odd. I’ll bet the marriage seemed almost perfect. I know the forum will say something about that. No matter what happens here, there is no easy answer.
> 
> If your wife is cheating and heavy into a lesbian affair with her trainer, you already lost her. If she is being totally honest with you and you did all the things behind her back, may have been so overwhelming for her. You said she probably didn’t even know what bisexual was… Honestly…VAR usually reveals an affair quickly. You had it up for over a week and nothing. (that initial massage, however weird it was, was just a massage).
> 
> So not only have you lost your wife, but you also lost your best friend. My wife is my best friend. There is nothing wrong with that. You wife now has a good support system with her mom, trainer, and co-workers.
> 
> I know you’re not ready to let the love of your life go. She feels you don’t trust her. NOBODY here on TAM has a vested interest in your happiness. They won’t be here to pick up the pieces of your shattered marriage.
> 
> Instead of kicking your wife to the curb, we have to find a solution to fix it.
> 
> The first step is forgiveness.
> 
> Tell her that the massage freaked you out and didn't know what to think of it and you turned to TAM for advise and it got out of hand. This is YOUR life and marriage at stake.
> 
> I may be the fool here because everybody says that I am. Go with what is in your heart. I think you wife is hurting.
> 
> I think your wife got drunk that night because she was so upset with the massage/trust thing. Maybe the spooning was just to piss you off and it backfired.


Trickster,

Here is what you continue to gloss over. Her behavior was extremely abhorrent to CIBS. And she didn't care that it was. We can debate whether she was wrong or innocent until the cows come home but the point is that it was her behavior that started all this mess. Her behavior and her lack of empathy for CIBS and his obvious issue with it. I know that if my wife had a problem with anything I did, I wouldn't do it and would work my butt off to make sure it never happened again. I also know she feels the same way.

Let's say you're right and all of this was completely innocent. Why did she react the way she did when she found out he was monitoring her? If she indeed set him up as a test why would she test him? Those are not loving gestures. Those are the acts of a controlling insecure individual who has no respect for others. And you're wrong. People on TAM have a vested interest in CIBS happiness. We are all here as a support system for CIBS and those like him. I don't get paid to spend my time on TAM just like I don't get paid to spend my time helping those I interact with in person. I do not believe there is one person on this thread who doesn't want to see CIBS and his wife reconcile this situation and have a wonderful happy marriage going forward. Its just that we disagree with you on how to accomplish this.


----------



## badbane

II. Trainer conduct and practice: The personal trainer should only deal honestly with clients and colleagues. This includes not misrepresenting himself or herself through any form of communication in an untruthful, misleading, or deceptive manner. Furthermore, maintenance of professional competence through study, application, and enhancement of health and fitness knowledge and skills is an obligation of the practicing personal trainer. All personal trainers certified by the NCSF are required to participate in, and report, continued learning. NCSF certified professionals are obligated to respond to evidence of questionable conduct or unethical behavior by any other NCSF member through appropriate procedures established by the NCSF Board for Certification.
*
III. Avoiding conflicts of interest: Potential conflicts of interest are inherent in the practice of the personal trainer. Personal trainers are expected to recognize such situations and deal with them in accordance with the best interests of the client.

4. Sexual misconduct on the part of the trainer is an abuse of professional power and a violation of client trust. Sexual contact or a romantic relationship between a trainer and a current client is always unethical.

He could always report this to the board that oversees PT's in his area. I am sure this would result in a revocation or suspension of her license.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Hmm. I just realized that everyone is referring to PT as a personal trainer. I was under the impression she is a physical therapist. Big difference obviously.


----------



## InlandTXMM

WorkingOnMe said:


> Hmm. I just realized that everyone is referring to PT as a personal trainer. I was under the impression she is a physical therapist. Big difference obviously.


Oh yeah. She's just a personal trainer as far as the OP has stated.

CIBS how are you doing? You're going dark on the wrong group.


----------



## Trickster

To recap a little…

POST 24 "Does not matter if it a man or woman giving your wife the big O and A is an A. You need to deal with this right now!" 

Post 27. "Just set up a few hidden camera's around the house. You'll get your answer within a day."

Post 38 "So my conclusion is that you wouldn't be a good husband if you didn't look into this."

Post 39 "Your attitude towards your wife and her PT is entirely unacceptable"

Post 64 "You sound like a whipped kept boy. A meal ticket who's selfish wife is far too used to you doting on her."

Post 80 "I think CIBS would make a better defense attorney than a prosecutor"

Post 85 "Not buying this BULLSHIVICK, its its almost to the point of you being so stupid that you deserve to be cheated on. (wrong to say but I can't help thinking it when I read this. Seriously!!!!! Come On.... NO Freakin Way!!!!"

Post 105 "I think you are stumbling in on this early. You need to find out for sure if this is just your wife enjoying a massage or a bi / lesbian trainer that is grooming your wife for an affair."

Post 181 "You do not have a marriage. You are her nerd. The trainer is the Star Quarterback of the Football team."

Post 187 "The disrespect from your wife has me all riled up in righteous indignation. If I feel it, why don't you?"

post 191 "Maybe OP is kind of getting off on the idea of his wife getting it from another woman! He just doesn't seem to bothered by this at all."

193 "The issue is not so much the massage but the fact that your wife could be engaging in some kind of a lesbian affair..."

Post 203 "Your wife sees weakness, and that is not sexy, nor is it worthy of her respect."

Post 224 "Sadly, this guy is going to find out, through his wife's coming revelation of her newly discovered self, and then quickly followed by an ultimatum, that he has to accept an open marriage or divorce."

Post 288 "How long has your wife held the marriage hostage? You can't live like this. You have the right to have exclusivity to your wife's heart and body."

Post 291 "More and more, this looks like a lesbian affair."

Post 323 "This guy is walking blind. I'm outta here. Good luck OP."

Post 341 "I think your wife is bisexual, and seducing the PT.."

Post 368 "Oh for heaven's sake man, if you're that uncomfortable with it tell her to stop with this PT." All this p*ssyfooting around, you're still at the same place you were when this saga begun"

Post 376 "Come on man use your head. You do not need armor. Just use the balls god gave you!!!!!!" 

Post 383 "We're trying to get you to act. It's not intended to be hurtful."

Post 384 "If it were I, I would have allready seen enough. Your just standing on that dock, watching your ship sail away... Start swimming! It could be too late, BUT it also may not be. Find out! The longer you wait, the harder this is going to be. I get the feeling that you're not the type of person who likes to make waves. This is your wife and your marriage on the line here! Even if you've never had to make such an important stand in your life before - I'm telling you, if you don't do something soon, you could regret it for the rest of your life."

post 391 "The affair is well underway. She's got more than her big toe in the waters of a lesbian relationship."



Most of you have said very hurtful things to CIBS. You all wanted to convict the wife first and burn her at the stake! You all have no respect or courtesy for the OP whatsoever. You forced his hand and in less than 3 weeks his wife is more than likely gone. CIBS’ s Wife had the same response. She must have thought CIBS lost his mind. HAVE YOU GUYS HONESTLY HELPED IN THIS CASE? This could have been handled much better. 

We can debate the trainer all we want to prove if she is ethical or not and that wouldn’t change anything… If I look at myself and my 12 year career, I can even go back to High School over 25 years ago when it all started. I would give neck rubs to several girls before school most mornings. I was always sweet, honest, trusting, maybe a little cute and I had a skill of helping with neck pain. Many years after that, I would massage co-workers with neck and shoulder pain. On occasion, even my male co-workers wanted me to work on their neck. All of this before I had my license.

then, I was encouraged by MY CO-WORKERS/FRIENDS, to get my massage license. Guess who my first clients were? 12 years later they are still friends and clients. Once a month I even go to the company to provide chair massages and I am invited to the annual Super Bowl party and I don't massage then. Should I not be friends anymore? Should I not go have a beer for happy hour with any of them? Once my wife was out of town and one of my clients (husband and wife and special need son) invited me to dinner with them. Should of have I said no to that. 

Yall suffer from chronic paranoia and are delusional and you guys passed your disease on to CIBS! good grief!


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## InlandTXMM

Hey Trickster, how's business? You had a hell of a lot of time to try to SELECTIVELY paint US as CIBS's bad guy. The only one hurting him is his WIFE. 

Where are your quotes of our sharing our experiences? Of our show of support for him and our understanding of how much pain he's going through?

Nevermind. You tell us stories of getting your clients soaking wet and groping millimeters from their vaginas, then lie and backtrack and reinvent your previous stories. You tell us how your closest client-turned-way-too-close-friend is now losing her relationship because you can't keep a professional distance from someone you are supposed to. To argue this with you is literally throwing pearls before swine.


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## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> Hey Trickster, how's business? You had a hell of a lot of time to try to SELECTIVELY paint US as CIBS's bad guy. The only one hurting him is his WIFE.
> 
> Where are your quotes of our sharing our experiences? Of our show of support for him and our understanding of how much pain he's going through?
> 
> Nevermind. You tell us stories of getting your clients soaking wet and groping millimeters from their vaginas, then lie and backtrack and reinvent your previous stories. You tell us how your closest client-turned-way-too-close-friend is now losing her relationship because you can't keep a professional distance from someone you are supposed to. To argue this with you is literally throwing pearls before swine.


 

I am professional. House call is something I do. It has nothing to do with "professional diistance" . SO, You think I should have stopped going to her place to provide therapy just because she had a new bf?

The OP is is pain. He is not a fool like everybody is saying. Yall dug in the knife pretty deep!


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## mablenc

Yes some post are very strong, but I will only respond to what I wrote.
His spouse paid for a service, them being married its their money. The PT trainer if certified has a code of conduct to follow. Based on what the OP posted, she was highly unprofessional, because of that, the OP has every right to report her. Any professional holding a certification is bound by the certifying organization's code of ethics. This is to protect the customers. Anyone who violates their code of ethics should be reported.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InlandTXMM

"Yes, the medicine is harsh, but the patient requires it."

Why don't you recap CIBS's story while you're at it.

- Flirty texts
- Naked rub down, then was nasty with him when he asked WTH was going on
- Sees they are NOT working out for the hour he's paying for but getting there just before he shows up.
- Wife starts SNEAKING OUT OF THE HOUSE to spend time with the PT
- Wife leaves to party with PT, ignores her husband's calls, ends up spooning the PT in his house.
- Wife invents a scenario to catch him checking up on her, then claims victim status.
- WIFE LEAVES TO GO STAY WITH THE PT

If you are so close to your clients that you call this kind of thing okay, you deserve to lose your license and livelihood.

Meanwhile, partly because he wants to imagine the best in his wife, partly because he lacked the guts to act, and partly because he is scared sh*tless of being alone, CIBS sabotaged himself and his chances for success at nearly every turn. The abrupt messages were sent in TOUGH love to get him to snap to his senses.

How do I know this? Because for the first few weeks, I was RIGHT where he is. I know EXACTLY what he's feeling. And I also know from my own reconciliation, and the posts of all of these people here, that there is really only ONE way to snap a wayward spouse back to reality. He came for advice, we gave him what worked for us.

Never an ounce of remorse from the wife. She was deep in affair fog. She was sinking and the marriage was going with her. It needed HIM to be the MAN of his house and have the fortitude to fight for his wife and his marriage. He never did.

What did you do? Enabled him to continue to delude himself by telling stories of obviously inappropriate behavior with your own clients as justification for what his wife and her PT were doing to wreck his marriage. Pathetic.


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## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> Hey Trickster, how's business? You had a hell of a lot of time to try to SELECTIVELY paint US as CIBS's bad guy.


If you reall want to know...I have a couple of hours until my nexy client. I worked a 10 hour day today and I gave myself a 2 hour lunch break. YOU are sure on TAM a lot. Way more than me....


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## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> "Yes, the medicine is harsh, but the patient requires it."


 
I get that. Chemotherapy wasn't in order here.

I really know how it feels when somebody cheats. My Dad did it way way back and left us kids... I get it. I've read enough here on TAM that make me feel so sick because it brings back so many bad memories that will never go away.

I think in this case ONLY, something is different. I don't know what exactly. Maybe it my own denial. Maybe I have a hard time believing that a great marriage there can be cheating.


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## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> I am professional. House call is something I do. It has nothing to do with "professional diistance" . SO, You think I should have stopped going to her place to provide therapy just because she had a new bf?


ABSOLUTELY you should have. Without question. If he had a problem with it, you should have made sure there wasn't even the appearance of impropriety.

The fact that that idea doesn't even register with you is alarming for a man who earns his keep putting his hands on other people's spouses and children.


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## InlandTXMM

Trickster said:


> I get that. Chemotherapy wasn't in order here.
> 
> I really know how it feels when somebody cheats. My Dad did it way way back and left us kids... I get it. I've read enough here on TAM that make me feel so sick because it brings back so many bad memories that will never go away.
> 
> I think in this case ONLY, something is different. I don't know what exactly. Maybe it my own denial. Maybe I have a hard time believing that a great marriage there can be cheating.


Or maybe because you are WAY too interested in clearing the name of a fellow PT.

BTW, I had (still have) a GREAT marriage. And it included cheating. I also thought, "No way. Not MY wife. Never." 

And yet the woman of my dreams, the mother of my children, my best friend and soul mate, CHEATED. I am not, as you call it, paranoid and deluded. I am facing the hard hell that is infidelity and doing my best to now pay back the help and support this site gave me in my darkest hours.


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## Trickster

InlandTXMM;1583118
ABSOLUTELY you should have. Without question. If he had a problem with it said:


> I do know what it looks like... For this client. As I said before, She's been a client for a long time. When she was getting serious with her bf and started to come to her place, she told him about the house calls. He seemed oK with it until she got pregnant. I REALLY see how that looks to the bf, which is why I don't massage her anymore, even at my office. I can respect that. It was always professional relationship and I am a family friend. Her clothes always stayed on and the fact that she was a client when she was a teenager, I just saw her as a child.


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## Trickster

InlandTXMM said:


> Or maybe because you are WAY too interested in clearing the name of a fellow PT.
> 
> Sure...maybe...
> 
> BTW, I had (still have) a GREAT marriage. And it included cheating. I also thought, "No way. Not MY wife. Never."
> 
> And yet the woman of my dreams, the mother of my children, my best friend and soul mate, CHEATED.


 
Inland...I know part of your story....I know your wife admitted to an EA and it never went PA... I really hope in your gut, you believe her.

I don't know what I would have said to you on your thread...yours was a different situation. I think you said she was away alot for work...


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## InlandTXMM

In my case, I have to choose to believe her. I will never have conclusive evidence to either prove her story or force the real one out of her. So my forgiveness was a decision based in part, on faith. That's a very difficult row to hoe.

That's one of the reasons, by the way, we tell BS's to gather intel. Not to snoop in some creepy way, but to dispel their own natural instinct to try to look the other way, and also to make sure they have the proof they need to get the FULL story. You cannot forgive what you do not know you are forgiving.


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## BrockLanders

In any event, his wife clearly knows about this thread so it's doubtful he's going to return.


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## InlandTXMM

BrockLanders said:


> In any event, his wife clearly knows about this thread so it's doubtful he's going to return.


Sadly, I'm sure it was part of his plea agreement to get her to talk to him again. His wife has always had the marriage on her terms. She didn't even fear spooning the PT right in front of him. What utter disrespect.

So he'll be doing the begging and pleading and she'll use him for the lifestyle. Sad.


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## aeg512

I am afraid I have to agree with Trickster. Most of the post are just conjecture rather than dealing with the facts. Yes, I agree that the wife crossed the line but no where is there actual evidence of an affair. To say there is is nothing but pure conjecture. Early on there was a much better way to have dealt with this issue and not one of you thought of it or at least I do not remember reading anything about it. What the OP should do is quit coming here, talk to several counselors (I agree only about half know anything) and try to talk his wife into going. Actually I thought the OP was smart enough not to do everything he was told to do.


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## InlandTXMM

Aeg by evidence of an affair, what do you mean? An EA or a full-on PA?

I think there was ample evidence of an EA at least.


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## weightlifter

Just an FYI. Unless and until CIBS sees his wife move in or sees them out together doing partner type stuff, he is likely gone.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

CIBS Wife was on her way out of the marriage, regardless of what was wriiten here. CIBS was the appitamy of the doormat syndrome and his Wife was taking full advantage of it. She may not have left last week, or next month, but she was working on leaving.

I do however feel sorry for him and looking back through this thread, in hindsite I think we may have gave him too much at once. When I realized that something was going on with my xwife, I went into to 007 mode PDQ and never got caught. Most of us never get caught. But some people are just not cut out for the high tension, high stakes game of "infidelity esbionage". I now realize that CIBS was not up to our level of survailance techniques. 

I really do think that it was a matter of time before CIBS's WS left him, be it for another man, or a women. If you read this CIBS, I'm sorry about what has happened to you. If you do get things straightened out, or actual get divorced and it's for the better, or worse - Please let us know. Many of us really did want this to work out for you.


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## Trickster

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> CIBS Wife was on her way out of the marriage, regardless of what was wriiten here. CIBS was the appitamy of the doormat syndrome and his Wife was taking full advantage of it. She may not have left last week, or next month, but she was working on leaving.
> 
> I do however feel sorry for him and looking back through this thread, in hindsite I think we may have gave him too much at once. When I realized that something was going on with my xwife, I went into to 007 mode PDQ and never got caught. Most of us never get caught. But some people are just not cut out for the high tension, high stakes game of "infidelity esbionage". I now realize that CIBS was not up to our level of survailance techniques.
> 
> I really do think that it was a matter of time before CIBS's WS left him, be it for another man, or a women. If you read this CIBS, I'm sorry about what has happened to you. If you do get things straightened out, or actual get divorced and it's for the better, or worse - Please let us know. Many of us really did want this to work out for you.


And you know his wife was on the way out how? CIBS said that he thought his marriage was fine. They are best friends, they do things together, their sex life was normal, they communicated....So when the massage presented itself, It freaked him out because it was so out of character. Everything he was told to do was so out of character for him that his wife sensed something. Just a guess on that last part.

Badbane was the ONLY one who actually asked about the marriage early on in the thread. I think the main one with a level head.


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## NewM

Wife that sneaks out,gets drunk,doesn't answer phone while drunk and then brings AP home to spoon with has no right to get mad at their spouse for thinking she is having an affair.


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## the guy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I told my side of the story to MIL when we spoke on the phone. She didn't clearly take sides but did not dismiss her daughter's story either. I don't want her here on this forum. I've thought about this and it is not her issue to solve this is between me and my wife. I have to realize there might be nothing I can do to fix this.
> 
> I am probably not going to go after the PT. Besides the fact I really have no proof of anything, the truth is my wife is the one who is married. The PT is single. This may sound gross but judging by the comments I saw on the PT's pics on her page (from other women) I could see her clientele actually going up if it was brought to public that she allegedly is into women.
> 
> I think my wife is not actually thinking I'm being honest with her. I can't really say that myself either. I mean, I had cams, vars, followed her around, checked on her FB and phone, discussed her on a public forum. She's is probably not thinking of me as much of a friend at the moment. She most likely just played along to see how far I would actually go with this and some comments from me on this thread along other things were the final straw. I realise now there is a possibility that her crying might not be about the PT and NC at all.


She was crying cuz her behavior has manifested into what her husband has now become. And thats your fault?

Dude she had all kinds of roads to turn on and continued to phuck with her marriage by seeing how far you were going to go.

Just like any one with boundary issues...."lets push them to the max" and see what happens.

Well my man she pushed you and you pushed her and in the end she bailed.

When bush came to shuv. your old lady bailed cuz your sh!t was not worth fighting for. Your mission to prevent from getting deceived was looked as a betrayal instead of a call for help in healing a messed up marriage.

This sh1t boiled over cuz of her own actions and it continues to boil over cuz she just stopped fighting for you!

I really believe when you caught her spooning its was all bad for her, so she pleads for forgiveness. it was just a matter of time were she could turn the table and make you look like the bad guy.

Some guys get burned by beating the hell out of the AP and/or slapping their old lady around....you got villinized by getting caught proving the truth.

Hell at the end of the day she would have something to justify her new reality!


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

Um...if his wife was checking the internet history and reading his posts on here, doesn't that mean she was snooping/spying as well? Isn't that (snooping) what sent her over the edge? Things that make you go Hmmm??


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## bryanp

I believe he has left the building.


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## the guy

Trickster said:


> And you know his wife was on the way out how? CIBS said that he thought his marriage was fine. They are best friends, they do things together, their sex life was normal, they communicated....So when the massage presented itself, It freaked him out because it was so out of character. Everything he was told to do was so out of character for him that his wife sensed something. Just a guess on that last part.
> 
> Badbane was the ONLY one who actually asked about the marriage early on in the thread. I think the main one with a level head.


His old lady had a chance to fix this crap with her old man and she choice to phuck it and disregard the possibliity of losing her marriage.


The chick had a fork in the road and she took a chance and it brought out some crazy things that she can not handle now.

Some chicks dig a guys character as long as it doesn;t get in the way with the private and single life they want to have after saying "I do"

Some chicks figure on the say " two become one" as the "one " is me and "he" becomes ME!!!!!!!


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## InlandTXMM

the guy said:


> Some chicks figure on the say " two become one" as the "one " is me and "he" becomes ME!!!!!!!


Never heard it like that, but I agree. There is a lot of that in this day and age, sadly.


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## CouldItBeSo

I haven't left TAM just had to take some time to clear my head and think about things.

The friend who joined my wife to the gym came over with her husband and we had a talk. According to the friend it was her idea to join my wife so it was not a 'setup' like some posters have suggested. Still haven't talked with wife, or I probably should say stbxw as it is she wants a divorce. I am not interested focusing on the PT, she is not the one I'm married to.

I see there is a lot of speculation going and outright false information so I want to clear few things. We have not been living a 'single life'. There has not been 'hooking up with others while clubbing' or all-day shopping. Seriously F-102 I don't know where you pulled these. You are probably mixing this with some other thread.


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## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Still haven't talked with wife, or I probably should say stbxw as it is she wants a divorce.


 You had good reason to be uncomfortable with the relationship with the PT as you felt that you were being replaced by her in your wife's life. Her being angry at you spying because of this, even if she felt it was not right, does not explain her being so willing to end her marraige to you. Mad maybe, but immediate divorce with no further discussion, no way. Spying was the excuse but not the reason. The real reason was that given a choice between you and the PT, she picked the PT. Your gut was right, you were being replaced.


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## Chaparral

No one dumps a spose like this. Whatever is going on, she is just using you checking up on her as an excuse.

Where is she staying?

What are her parents saying?


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## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> I haven't left TAM just had to take some time to clear my head and think about things.
> 
> The friend who joined my wife to the gym came over with her husband and we had a talk. According to the friend it was her idea to join my wife so it was not a 'setup' like some posters have suggested. Still haven't talked with wife, or I probably should say stbxw as it is she wants a divorce. I am not interested focusing on the PT, she is not the one I'm married to.
> 
> I see there is a lot of speculation going and outright false information so I want to clear few things. We have not been living a 'single life'. There has not been 'hooking up with others while clubbing' or all-day shopping. Seriously F-102 I don't know where you pulled these. You are probably mixing this with some other thread.


CIBS

What did your wife's friends think of your behavior? And what did they think of your wife's behavior?


Did they shed any light on what is really going in in your wife's life at this time?


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## Trickster

TRy said:


> You had good reason to be uncomfortable with the relationship with the PT as you felt that you were being replaced by her in your wife's life. Her being angry at you spying because of this, even if she felt it was not right, does not explain her being so willing to end her marraige to you. Mad maybe, but immediate divorce with no further discussion, no way. Spying was the excuse but not the reason. The real reason was that given a choice between you and the PT, she picked the PT. Your gut was right, you were being replaced.


His wife just found out that her husband doesn't trust her...Enough to spy on her every move. My wife knows I make house calls, even to the young woman who got pregnant and she TRUSTS me. CIBS's wife just had to clear her head also, to to understand where what went wrong. 

She is not willing to end the marriage. She is in shock! My vision is that after a short while of reflection, she will be back. Its only been a month since all of this started. 

If my wife didn't fully trust me and spied on me, I would leave too. My wife has numerous reasons to spy on me too. especially since my 180 (which resembles an PA). I would never want my wife to not trust me and the thought of her wondering if I will cheat or not in the future would make me feel like krap. I wouldn't want to go through that and I wouldn't want my wife to go through that. IMO walking away would be better to save her years of untrust. (is untrust even a word)?


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## Shaggy

If you find your spouse doesn't trust you, the reasonable reaction isn't to get angry and indignant and take off.

Your spouse is someone who's opinion of you is supposed to matter to you. If you don't have their trust, shouldn't you be asking why and work with them to work out the issue? 

It comes down to, do you respect your spouses feelings? Them looking full trust and questioning things is a valid feeling and to get angry at them for feeling it us deeply disrespectful of them as a person.


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## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



Trickster said:


> His wife just found out that her husband doesn't trust her...Enough to spy on her every move. My wife knows I make house calls, even to the young woman who got pregnant and she TRUSTS me. CIBS's wife just had to clear her head also, to to understand where what went wrong.
> 
> She is not willing to end the marriage. She is in shock! My vision is that after a short while of reflection, she will be back. Its only been a month since all of this started.
> 
> If my wife didn't fully trust me and spied on me, I would leave too. My wife has numerous reasons to spy on me too. especially since my 180 (which resembles an PA). I would never want my wife to not trust me and the thought of her wondering if I will cheat or not in the future would make me feel like krap. I wouldn't want to go through that and I wouldn't want my wife to go through that. IMO walking away would be better to save her years of untrust. (is untrust even a word)?


 If something happened that made your wife suspicious and you summarily dismissed her concerns leading to her need to check up on you...you'd leave her? I guess that's all I need to know.


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## NewM

Trickster said:


> His wife just found out that her husband doesn't trust her...Enough to spy on her every move. My wife knows I make house calls, even to the young woman who got pregnant and she TRUSTS me. CIBS's wife just had to clear her head also, to to understand where what went wrong.
> 
> She is not willing to end the marriage. She is in shock! My vision is that after a short while of reflection, she will be back. Its only been a month since all of this started.
> 
> If my wife didn't fully trust me and spied on me, I would leave too. My wife has numerous reasons to spy on me too. especially since my 180 (which resembles an PA). I would never want my wife to not trust me and the thought of her wondering if I will cheat or not in the future would make me feel like krap. I wouldn't want to go through that and I wouldn't want my wife to go through that. IMO walking away would be better to save her years of untrust. (is untrust even a word)?


Do you sneak out on your wife to get drunk with your client,do you bring client home to spoon overnight with or does your client sneak around to get drunk with you and then bring you home to spoon for the night?


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## badmemory

I think one lesson learned from this is that if a spouse has a legitimate reason to covertly spy on the other spouse, and I believe he did, then the spying should be just that. Covert.

I'm pretty sure that she was alerted to the cams and VAR's by reading this thread. Perhaps we, and I include myself, should have suggested he move this thread to the private members section (if someone did, my apologies). We could have reminded him to use greater precaution while on his computer or hers, to remove the VAR's and cams when he knew she found the thread - or after a couple of weeks, etc.

I feel we let OP down in that area and that's something I'll try to remember the next time I advise someone to use them.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Trickster said:


> *And you know his wife was on the way out how?* CIBS said that he thought his marriage was fine. They are best friends, they do things together, their sex life was normal, they communicated....So when the massage presented itself, It freaked him out because it was so out of character. Everything he was told to do was so out of character for him that his wife sensed something. Just a guess on that last part.
> 
> Badbane was the ONLY one who actually asked about the marriage early on in the thread. I think the main one with a level head.


From what CIBS wrote about how she was acting. She did not have any regard for what her relationship with the PT was doing to him. When he confronted her the Morning he found her sleeping with the PT, she did say she would go NC. That was the only thing she did that CIBS wanted her to do. How long would she have gone NC, well never know. But given the the fact of how close they were, the hugs/kisses, the questionable back rub and them sleeping together - you'd be a fool to believe that she was never going to be in contact with her again. CIBS's wife was hooked on the EA/possible PA high. From what he wrote she was not even close to being all-in on their marriage. Maybe this is how it's always been for their marriage. But he it had gotten bad enough that he started asking questions. She wasn't giving honest answers. The writing was on the wall.


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## Trickster

bfree said:


> If something happened that made your wife suspicious and you summarily dismissed her concerns leading to her need to check up on you...you'd leave her? I guess that's all I need to know.


 
Many nights, I work until 8pm or so. I see my clients at a time when they can come in. Usually it is after they get off of work. My wife is working now but for 8 years she was a SAHM. Yes, as a massage therapist, I made enough for her to stay home, get approved for a home loan and pay for a new CRV in 3 years. I am very busy. My wife even encouraged me to become a massage therapist after we got married. My wife has always trusted me 100% and she doesn’t have a jealous bone in her body. Sometimes, I wish she was just a little jealous. I am glad she isn’t though.
If my wife questioned everytime I worked late or if she called the office while I was working on my last client to say “bring home some bread on the way home". That to me would be a clue that she didn’t trust me. She has never done that. I would not want to be in a marriage if my wife questioned all my actions or I had to prove I was actually working when I say that I am. When I go out rowing, I don’t want to prove I was actually with the group on the water. When my wife goes out of town and I get invited to a fundraiser where I may be dancing and drinking a little, I don’t want my wife to be awake a night wondering if I was going to cheat. I would not want to be married if my wife was angry and stopped doing the homemaking duties and I had to wash my own clothes because she was punishing me for her insecurities. She has never done that. I am a lucky man. I do have to iron my own shirts though.
IMO, it would be sad to be in a marriage where there isn’t 100% trust. If I decided to cheat, I know my wife would be crushed. I also know she would want to R. That's how she is. I would never be able to make it up to her. She would never fully trust me again. She would always have that look of shame. I would NEVER want her or my daughter to think of me the way that I thought of my POS dad. That’s why I would end the marriage.


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## bfree

You are sidestepping the question. If you did some things that caused your wife to be insecure, like CIBS's wife did, and then proceeded to dismiss her concerns, like CIBS's wife did, would you understand her need to monitor you? If you found her monitoring you would you leave as you said you would?


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## BjornFree

bfree said:


> You are sidestepping the question. If you did some things that caused your wife to be insecure, like CIBS's wife did, and then proceeded to dismiss her concerns, like CIBS's wife did, would you understand her need to monitor you? If you found her monitoring you would you leave as you said you would?


:iagree:

Once trust is gone it has to be earned again, not demanded. Trickster, the only reason you and your wife trust each other is because you've not given the other cause for concern. Once that line is crossed you're not going to be able to trust her and she's not going to be able to trust you. So if you have any hope of saving the marriage, the cheater needs to voluntarily take on the role of a parolee


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## phillybeffandswiss

bfree said:


> You are sidestepping the question. If you did some things that caused your wife to be insecure, like CIBS's wife did, and then proceeded to dismiss her concerns, like CIBS's wife did, would you understand her need to monitor you? If you found her monitoring you would you leave as you said you would?


Yep. He is changing the parameters to fit his secure marriage, while he is blaming the husband.

Getting off late from work is not equal to an all night drinking binge.

Being invited to a dance, with a little drinking, is not the same as your wife saying "I do not know how or what happened" with spooning.

Having a SAHM, doing your clothes, is not the same as an excited wife, in bed, naked and getting a message.

Trickster, maybe it was a typo, but it is strange that your wife calling late is a red flag, but his wife not answering the phone makes sense.


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## CouldItBeSo

F-102, here is what you said:


F-102 said:


> I know I'm late here, but I'd like to throw my oar in.
> 
> CIBS's wife may or may not have been a closet bisexual. She may or may not even have been in love with the PT. But one thing seems to ring out in all of this, and that is the wife's new "best friend" (the PT) *had her going on all-day shoppin' & boppin' expeditions*, then *they were clubbing all the time* and coming home drunk. When CIBS caught them on the couch spooning each other, his W may not even have instigated it-hell, the PT may have taken full advantage. Then his W said that she "can't remember" how it happened. For all we know, *she probably hooked up with other guys (or girls, for that matter) while clubbing with PT*, and conveniently "can't remember" them.
> 
> In short, the PT reintroduced his W back to the single, party-girl lifestyle, she started to dig it, and her marriage to CIBS was now an inconvenience.


The bolded parts. These are simply conjecture or false information and nowhere I've stated anything like this. You are making these up yourself. I'm sorry the real story is too boring for you.


----------



## InlandTXMM

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yep. He is changing the parameters to fit his secure marriage, while he is blaming the husband.
> 
> Getting off late from work is not equal to an all night drinking binge.
> 
> Being invited to a dance, with a little drinking, is not the same as your wife saying "I do not know how or what happened" with spooning.
> 
> Having a SAHM, doing your clothes, is not the same as an excited wife, in bed, naked and getting a message.
> 
> Trickster, maybe it was a typo, but it is strange that your wife calling late is a red flag, but his wife not answering the phone makes sense.


There are none so blind as he who will NOT see.

Like CIBS, Trickster wants his version to be correct, and dammit all to anyone who sees it differently. I've heard so many conflicting statements from the guy I've lost track.

I read a great quote this morning: "Arguing with a fool only proves that there are two." 

CIBS, tough love is what we have been trying to give you. I nearly gave up after you said you needed to look up the word "bisexual" to even know what it meant. How does any person older than 12 NOT know what one is? How can you stop behavior you cannot discern is inappropriate? How can you combat infidelity if you refuse to acknowledge what it looks like?

(BTW, using simple logic, if you don't even know what a bisexual IS, how can you be so sure your wife isn't one? You knew something was wrong enough to search out this forum and post your story, yet you didn't know the definition of the very activity your wife was engaged in? Does that make any sense to anyone?) 

But I digress...

At EVERY SINGLE TURN, you sabotaged the collective efforts to help you get to the bottom of it. As evidence mounted, you grew even more defiant that you were not seeing what you were seeing. The vets here were screaming at you to see the light. Yet you were stupendously defiant. I even began to wonder if this was just a colossal set-up in some ways - I mean, how is it that this ONE cheating wife is going to somehow, inexplicably, defy every single attempt to determine what's going on? How is this ONE spouse, out of thousands, going to follow an entirely different cheater's script than the others? How is this one crafty enough to stage all of this as a test of her husband's need to snoop? This is high theatrics. Soap opera-quality.

It was also almost as if each bit of advice given was then automatically countered with a "well it didn't work" argument at every turn. That is simply statistically not possible. Your wife is NOT that smart. Or unique.

I also hail from the "Never my wife!" camp, so I totally understand the deep desire to be wrong about my suspicious. Had Trickster been around to advise me, I might STILL be second-guessing myself and feeling terrible for demanding integrity in my marriage. But I decided to take actionable steps as recommended here, and sure enough, my perfect wife ended up following the classic WW patterns and script- nearly verbatim. It just took my finally being willing to accept what I was seeing rather than try SO hard to look the other way.

I wish you well. I wish your marriage well. You are the victim here, not your wife. But there is nothing more anyone can do until you decide to fight for yourself.

EDIT: I would rather try to help others than be banned for trying hard to get CIBS to see through his own fog. So this will be my last post on this thread. Best of luck.


----------



## happyman64

Cibs

Has your wife made any contact with you?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> No one dumps a spose like this. Whatever is going on, she is just using you checking up on her as an excuse.
> 
> Where is she staying?
> 
> What are her parents saying?


I assume she is staying at the PT's place. That's what her mom implied when we talked on the phone. 




happyman64 said:


> CIBS
> 
> What did your wife's friends think of your behavior? And what did they think of your wife's behavior?
> 
> 
> Did they shed any light on what is really going in in your wife's life at this time?


I've only talked with the said friend who visited but I don't want to cause her any trouble... As stbxw is probably reading this.




Decorum said:


> Well thats progress. If you dont mind my asking, are you a bit obsessive?
> 
> *I think no more than any other suspicious BS here?*
> 
> And how come your wife seems to be able to disconnect from you so easily?
> 
> *This is something I can't answer at this point as I don't know the answer. Only she knows.*
> 
> Am I misunderstanding somthing here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe? You haven't read the whole thread?



Decorum said:


> How old is she? 40 going on 16?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are both 28.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I haven't left TAM just had to take some time to clear my head and think about things.
> 
> The friend who joined my wife to the gym came over with her husband and we had a talk. According to the friend it was her idea to join my wife so it was not a 'setup' like some posters have suggested. Still haven't talked with wife, or I probably should say stbxw as it is she wants a divorce. I am not interested focusing on the PT, she is not the one I'm married to.
> 
> I see there is a lot of speculation going and outright false information so I want to clear few things. We have not been living a 'single life'. There has not been 'hooking up with others while clubbing' or all-day shopping. Seriously F-102 I don't know where you pulled these. You are probably mixing this with some other thread.


I think F102 might be taking it a bit far. But think about it. Your wife is gone with this new person a lot. You catch them passed out on the couch spooning. Then she probably catches wind of the TAM thread. Then she wants a divorce. I think F102 maybe onto something and you might have to open your mind to the idea that your wife may have been doing more with this woman than she openly admits. While you don't have evidence per se. How do you know that your wife and the PT have not gone to bars and this time they seriously slipped up and go caught. 
I don't mean to take sides here and i did originally think this thread was innocent at first. But things kept trickling out and as may of us on here have experience and many more have read. Is that if there is a trickle coming from the damn. You put a stick o dynamite in it and find the truth. Ignoring these little tid bits may not seem like a big deal. But these little tid bits could lead you to the truth. It may be as bad as that dam bursting in your face and you seeing that your marriage was a lie. You may just see that it was innocent. However why in the hell would your wife want a divorce because of all of this. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. If there is nothing going on she wouldn't have bolted. I mean she BOLTED on you. She didn't stick around to try and figure it out. She didn't talk to you to try and understand your point of view. There was ZERO empathy. That is a RED FLAG. You need to understand we are here to help. We are seeing things from perspectives you have yet to deal with because you haven't seen or read enough of these stories to understand the one simple truth that we all would like to think is not possible. "Anyone is capable of anything at any time." You need to accept that your wife could and would be capable of cheating. You need to not minimalize things. Because your wife will try to get you to push this under a rug. She will fight for her fantasy. I am willing to bet you money she will approach you will her conditions of returning. But I would be curious as heck to know where your wife is. What she is doing, and who with because now you can't see what is going on. YOu have no control.


----------



## badbane

ask the mods to move the thread and yes your wife is likely reading this and maybe it can be moved to the private section.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Well, for whatever focus on topic that has been lost, any wife who is going out and drinking with friends and reaching the 'too drunk to remember' state needs a check. Tone it down and come back to reality that you are married and the boundaries and behaviors of a married woman need to be defined and set.

Her being 28 means that she is reaching sexual peak (Surveys show different ages). Women going out and what not after being married for several years almost always causes problems. 

Read eric415 thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/67467-suspect-wife-having-affair.html


----------



## happyman64

Cibs

You wonder what it will take for her to just tell you the truth?

HM64


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badmemory said:


> I'm pretty sure that she was alerted to the cams and VAR's by reading this thread. Perhaps we, and I include myself, should have suggested he move this thread to the private members section (if someone did, my apologies). We could have reminded him to use greater precaution while on his computer or hers, to remove the VAR's and cams when he knew she found the thread - or after a couple of weeks, etc.
> 
> I feel we let OP down in that area and that's something I'll try to remember the next time I advise someone to use them.


Actually the moment it was obvious that she knew about the cam/var was when she threw them at me. My assumption she got into this thread because I had forgotten to clear browsing history. I don't have a password on my laptop as it would be suspicious. So it's only my fault and no one else's but I'm only a human who makes mistakes.



Decorum said:


> Yeah there is more to the story!
> 
> Cib how did you guys meet and get together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is quite ironic as most here have pegged me as a beta. We met when we were both 18 and in college. We both went to party at a friend's house (separately) and there was this one known jerk who I saw trying to grope a pretty girl (my future wife) even she tried to shoo him away. He was just generally causing problem the whole time he had been there so I went and asked her if this dude was bothering her, she nodded and I proceed to throw him out. I mean I literally walked him to the door and threw him in a nice arc onto the front lawn. I guess I was bigger than her so he left silently and he never bothered her again. After that she came to thank and talk and it started from there... This makes me sad...


----------



## CouldItBeSo

happyman64 said:


> Cibs
> 
> Has your wife made any contact with you?


None so far. I most likely will have to use her friend as a messenger if she doesn't show up herself.

InlandTXMM, I don't see what's the point of going through my past mistakes over and over in every post you make? I can't change the past anymore and it does not help.


----------



## KanDo

Dear OP,

I am sorry I was not in your thread earlier. I am also sorry that you wife is out of the house. You and she, if you can get her to, need to read _Not Just Friends _By Dr. Shirley Glass, arguably the definitive work on infidelity. When you read it you will discover that what you have observed and your wife's reactions confirm that this was indeed an affair. Period. Whetehr anything more than the physical massage occurred or not not with standing.

The fact that she left you over the events and is staying with the other woman is clear confirmation of her choices. Let her go. You really don't have her anyway. This will be hard. File. If she wakes up and you want to try again, fine. If not, move on to csomeone who will actually love you. (and don't say she does love you. Her actions prove she doesn't)


----------



## Shaggy

If she did move in with the PT don't you kinda think that confirms things?

If their relationship was professional only, how would she have been able to just move in her?

I'm pretty sure my auto mechanic wouldn't let me move in, and I'm pretty sure my boss at work wouldn't let me move in.

If its tyre that she did move in with the PT, that screams that their relationship if way beyond professional or appropriate.

Hey, Trickster - how many of your clients have you had move into your home?


----------



## Hicks

There was an interloper in your marriage. Male, Female, sexual or non sexual, it doesnt' really matter.

The mistake most people make is trying to find "proof" of a sexual relationship, when you already had all the information you needed to offer your wife the choice between this inappropriate friend and her marriage.... Either way you got to that point, and she made that choice.... based on where she is living now.

The spying did not ruin your marriage, but it sure did not make you look like an attractive choice. And that's the lesson you need to walk away with... If you want your wife to stay married to you, always be her best choice. And, it's not too late for you to become that.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Well, for whatever focus on topic that has been lost, any wife who is going out and drinking with friends and reaching the 'too drunk to remember' state needs a check. Tone it down and come back to reality that you are married and the boundaries and behaviors of a married woman need to be defined and set.
> 
> Her being 28 means that she is reaching sexual peak (Surveys show different ages). Women going out and what not after being married for several years almost always causes problems.
> 
> Read eric415 thread
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/67467-suspect-wife-having-affair.html


I will check that thanks. To be fair she only went out once and she is not a drinker at all normally. That most likely explains her getting so drunk as she is not used to alcohol.




Decorum said:


> There is a weird dynamic on this thread I have followed it but not posted,
> Since its still active and just as creepy I think I'll just watch from a distance.
> 
> Cib I would like to know how you feel about Tricksters posts, spot on, not relevant, wharever?
> 
> Do you think he knows how your wife feels and thinks?
> 
> I will be interested in the outcome here.
> 
> Take care!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do you think it is creepy?

Trickster has some valid points as do others here but I don't think his situation generally applies in my case because he is a male. From what I've gathered, all the clients of my stbxw's PT are women. She does not train men as it seems.

Edit: I want make clear I don't blame anyone here about anything. All the decisions and actions were made by me and only me.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Hicks said:


> There was an interloper in your marriage. Male, Female, sexual or non sexual, it doesnt' really matter.
> 
> The mistake most people make is trying to find "proof" of a sexual relationship, when you already had all the information you needed to offer your wife the choice between this inappropriate friend and her marriage.... Either way you got to that point, and she made that choice.... based on where she is living now.
> 
> The spying did not ruin your marriage, but it sure did not make you look like an attractive choice. And that's the lesson you need to walk away with... If you want your wife to stay married to you, always be her best choice. And, it's not too late for you to become that.


Yes, this is pretty much what all the BSs here are told what I've read the threads. However you have to understand that if the possible WS doesn't admit to anything then we are left wondering the rest of our lifes if we made the right decision or if they were telling truth after all. In my case there's maybe nothing I can do at this point since she made the decision but I still want some kind of explanation so I can move on knowing I did everything I could.


----------



## Thor

CouldItBeSo said:


> However you have to understand that if the possible WS doesn't admit to anything then we are left wondering the rest of our lifes if we made the right decision or if they were telling truth after all.


Yeah, limbo sucks. It doesn't get any better. And, you will never ever get the real truth from her. Never.

Also, be very cautious about what you tell to anybody else. Their loyalties may be more towards her than you.


----------



## hopefulgirl

I agree with KanDo's first paragraph. Read Shirley Glass' book. It WILL give you a lot of insight. 

But Shirley Glass wouldn't push for filing so soon; things are very volatile when the affair has just been discovered (physical and/or emotional affair is beside the point - she's obviously involved with this woman - spooning doesn't happen in professional relationships, so it doesn't matter if they got to third base yet or not). A cooling off period is better, time to think things through. Divorce isn't something people should do in haste.

She spooned, you recorded, those are facts. What you both choose to do FROM HERE ON is what counts. Get the book. Learn. Think. Take a deep breath. Take some time.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

badbane said:


> I think F102 might be taking it a bit far. But think about it. Your wife is gone with this new person a lot. You catch them passed out on the couch spooning. Then she probably catches wind of the TAM thread. Then she wants a divorce. I think F102 maybe onto something and you might have to open your mind to the idea that your wife may have been doing more with this woman than she openly admits. While you don't have evidence per se. *How do you know that your wife and the PT have not gone to bars and this time they seriously slipped up and go caught. *
> 
> I know because she is at work during the day, then 45 min or less time for training (add in travel time she has a really tight time frame) and then she was with me the rest of the day until we went to sleep. I would smell it immediately if she'd been drinking alcohol.
> 
> I don't mean to take sides here and i did originally think this thread was innocent at first. But things kept trickling out and as may of us on here have experience and many more have read. Is that if there is a trickle coming from the damn. You put a stick o dynamite in it and find the truth. Ignoring these little tid bits may not seem like a big deal. But these little tid bits could lead you to the truth. It may be as bad as that dam bursting in your face and you seeing that your marriage was a lie. You may just see that it was innocent. However why in the hell would your wife want a divorce because of all of this. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. If there is nothing going on she wouldn't have bolted. I mean she BOLTED on you. She didn't stick around to try and figure it out. She didn't talk to you to try and understand your point of view. There was ZERO empathy. That is a RED FLAG. You need to understand we are here to help. We are seeing things from perspectives you have yet to deal with because you haven't seen or read enough of these stories to understand the one simple truth that we all would like to think is not possible. "Anyone is capable of anything at any time." You need to accept that your wife could and would be capable of cheating. You need to not minimalize things. Because your wife will try to get you to push this under a rug. She will fight for her fantasy. I am willing to bet you money she will approach you will her conditions of returning. But I would be curious as heck to know where your wife is. What she is doing, and who with because now you can't see what is going on. YOu have no control.


Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> This is quite ironic as most here have pegged me as a beta. We met when we were both 18 and in college.


There are people, on this board, who have FOUGHT in wars who are Beta. It's been a DECADE dude, there is no irony in your story. Did you stop to think, may be that "Alpha" guy is dead to her? 

You should explain why snooping, from your perspective not your family's reasoning, caused your wife to want a Divorce. Has trust been an ongoing issue?


----------



## mablenc

CIBS, 

I just wanted to say that most of us just wanted to help you, I hope that your wife regardless if she cheated or not can change her perception and see the man who loves her so much he was wiling to do anything to save his marriage. I think it shows how committed you are to your marriag and that when you said your vows you truly meant them. I only hope that if it comes to it my husband would fight just as hard.
It is easier to look the other way or just ignore things until they get worse. You did what you could, under difficult and painful circumstances. Your heart is breaking your brain is trying to see logic. As a person who has felt that way, I know there were times I felt crazy, confused and alone. All I wanted is to feel loved and to forget everything else.

I wish you the best of luck, please try to eat and sleep, and exercise.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

CouldItBeSo said:


> Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


She's staying at the PT's place now... That pretty much sums it up.


----------



## BobSimmons

Are you getting divorced? Have you filed? What's the plan? Your wife is staying at her lovers place, their union probably consummated by now.


----------



## crossbar

Wow! this thread is getting so stupid and to the point where I'm having a hard time believing it.

People have suggested moving it to the Private Section. No move on that. Wife caught him spying and moved out. People suggested that he talk to a lawyer immediately. No move on that. Talking to the lawyer about suing the PT for Intentional infliction of Emotional Distress..nothing on that.


So, IF this thread is on the up and up and IF his wife is reading this...GET BENT!


----------



## azteca1986

CouldItBeSo said:


> Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


So your wife wants a divorce and is living with her AP. Doesn't leave much room for speculation, surely.

Your story of how you met her proves you _were_ a man of action. What's YOUR next move?


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


I thought there was a good chance that this thread was going to be different. The thing is, by the time one's gut is telling them something is way wrong, and they come to this forum, the odds that they are wrong is only about 1 in a 100. That is a the biggest red flag of all. As a matter of fact there have been so many people in other sections that had no idea their spouse was cheating. But when we started asking questions and the red flags started poping up, they started doing some detective work and you guessed it, the elephant in the room was a boyfriend/girlfriend. Of course they almost all denied that was a possibility at first.

As a matter of fact, I would bet you haven't found a thread here that the spouse wasn't cheating. I can think of one in way over of threads I have been a part of. 

I thought there was really good chance this thread was different.

Now, however I have no doubt her PT has seduced your wife. I hope she hasn't done this before, but I know of families that have with children that have been broken up by a lesbian.

If your wife loved you, truly loved you, she would not have hurt you like this. What she has and is doing is far more hurtful, thoughtless and down right mean, than anything I can imagine aperson in love would do. Assuming you were wrong, an innocent person would have been shocked at what you were suggesting, then they would have laughed at your boyish jealousy, hugged you up laughed more, loved you up and then made you feel like you were the only man in the world.

Everyone makes mistakes. Unless she is a complete fool, she would have seen how bad her and the PT's behavior could have looked to anyone.

Even now, what she is doing is far worse than you checking up on her. In the past things were different. Now, seeing two, drunk women cuddling on a sofa brings one thing to mind, lesbians.
NOT buddies.

I hope we are wrong, but if she gives a damn at all, she is sure is trying to drive a nail in the coffin of your marriage. If she is just trying to teach you a lesson, I hope she knows what she is doing, because the pain she has put you through, will soon be something you can't overcome.

By the way, someone as obsessive as she is about her looks and working out sure sounds like a narcissist. Have you checked out the signs of narcissism?

Like the man said, "Methinks she doth protest too much."


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, your MIL thinks she is staying with the PT? Does she have no other friends she could be staying with?

Are there any lesbian/gay bars in your area?


----------



## weightlifter

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> She's staying at the PT's place now... That pretty much sums it up.


Quoted for truth. Full proven truth will not be known for between 1 and 52 weeks... if ever. 

And count me in the full proof category. For me, a PA is a deal breaker. IF Im going to kick my wife to the curb I'm gonna be sure about it.

CIBS, do you live in a fault or no fault state? Might be fun to make her answer the question under oath...

Chap we have that one... ?Jerry123? red flags. Nearly a year later no proof tho it sure looks like it happened. Truly innocent... have not seen one. There was that one in general board where hubby got mad at wife for going to a singles bar ?somethingwife?
There was that one a monthish ago where the poster said she cheated when in fact she did the other guy before they were exclusive so it was not cheating... tho she LIED to him.

Nevermind noone TRULY white as snow innocent... yet.


----------



## MattMatt

You know, a relationship can develop that is utterly and completely inappropriate, that wrecks a marriage... yet does not have to be sexual in nature.

But the bloody marriage is still wrecked, even so...


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


 All cheaters try to shift blame to the betrayed when they move for divorce. You had no past issues of snooping. Your snooping was in direct response to a concern that you had openly expressed to her that she ignored. As you watched your wife slip away from you as she shifted her primary allegiance to the PT, what where you suppose to do, nothing? Her moving in with the PT and filing for divorce is not the action of someone that was still committed to you and the marraige. Again, given the choice of you or the PT she picked the PT, and is using the snooping issue as an excuse. Look if you were looking for an excuse to leave your wife for someone else, you could have just as easily used the the couch spooning as an excuse, as you walked out in indignation to move in with the other woman.


----------



## the guy

Trickster said:


> If my wife didn't fully trust me and spied on me, I would leave too. QUOTE]
> 
> My wife didn't trust me, and I just laughted, so she cheated!!!! Maybe if she would have done the foot work to spy and investigate she wouldn't be crying her eyes out in church every Sunday....3 years into R.
> A very successful R at that IMHO!
> 
> If my wife were to spy on me....at best she would be surprised how often I rub one out. LOL
> 
> I mean really who cares if you got nothing to hide?


----------



## the guy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Well, there isn't really point of rugsweeping if she wants a divorce is there? I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


Why do you speculate? I mean arenlt there enough red flags?

I guess at the end of the day your chick figures her marriage just ain't worth fighting for? Sad but true! she really started out like she wanted it when you busted her, then she turns a corner when it benifits her?

Sorry my man I just don't get it. she could have excepted full transparentcy and welcomed any and all spying and it would have saved her marriage...but she didn't!!!!!


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I know my wife could be capable of cheating. I even asked her is she cheating before she left. But she gave no answers to that so I'm left speculating here.


 If she had admitted to cheating, but later came back, begged you for forgiveness, showed true remorse, promised full no contact, and promises full transparency (including all passwords), would you have at least sat down with her to discuss giving her a second chance? I believe that you would. Do you know why? Because you never disconnected from her or your marriage. You have continued to honor your wedding vow to put her before all others. You do not have someone else waiting in the wings to go run off with. You still love your wife. The sad fact is that the person that stays loyal to their spouses and to their vows, is the only one that second guesses what they could have done better to save the marraige. You are that person and she is not. Stop second guessing yourself. You were put in a situation not of your making and you tried to do your best to save the marraige. Mistakes or not, your goal and heart was pure. She cannot say the same thing.

Your wife handling things in the way that she is handling it, shows that she does not feel the same way about you and the marriage as you do. It also shows that you were right about the relationship with the PT having replaced you as the priority in her life. If it does end in divorce without your wife trying to work things out with you, then the marraige was heading that way anyway no matter what you did or did not do. Just now you know.


----------



## bryanp

The fact that she refused to answer you every time you asked if she was cheating and is now living with this woman says it all. What is there left to say? She seems quite devious. I would strongly urge to contact an attorney immediately in order to protect yourself.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

CBIS,

You are rugsweeping, and as said, they all do, and you are displaying beta behaviour.

You see not clear: There were the signs, the facts, and now she stay's with this PT??

She is a lesbian all time, from the moment you met her. You were her enabler, and acted to the outside as her Alfa, but in your marriage as the Beta. The perfect combination.

While you now actually found out about it, but still do not see what you found, she leaves you. She does not want to discuss it because you obviously are blind to what is right before you.

When I am wrong, she will come back when things are cooled down.

There is also a small possibiltiy, that she will use your rugsweeping to try to continue the relation, but she will always have to be carefull, and she knows she could be monitored by devices and by this or another forum.

I think she is gone.


----------



## weightlifter

Sad that the wife is very likely getting some and CIBS aint.

SICK irony.


----------



## Chaparral

weightlifter said:


> Sad that the wife is very likely getting some and CIBS aint.
> 
> SICK irony.


I think this could be a good thing. CIBS will find someone better. At least it would be hard to match the problems with this wife.

What kind of mother would his wife make? Children are the greatest thing in the world. I have a hard time believeing she wants to be a mom just by her actions.

I'm guessing her and PT are really parting now.

I mean, no contact with her HUSBAND. This may be the worst case we have seen here yet as far as how cruel the wayward spouse has been. She has behaved so badly, it really would not matter whether she was in any kind of affair or not. She is extremely lucky she is not my daughter. PT is even luckier.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

mablenc said:


> CIBS,
> 
> I just wanted to say that most of us just wanted to help you, I hope that your wife regardless if she cheated or not can change her perception and see the man who loves her so much he was wiling to do anything to save his marriage. I think it shows how committed you are to your marriag and that when you said your vows you truly meant them. I only hope that if it comes to it my husband would fight just as hard.
> It is easier to look the other way or just ignore things until they get worse. You did what you could, under difficult and painful circumstances. Your heart is breaking your brain is trying to see logic. As a person who has felt that way, I know there were times I felt crazy, confused and alone. All I wanted is to feel loved and to forget everything else.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck, please try to eat and sleep, and exercise.


Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated. I wish you well too.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

This thread is getting a bit out of hand. There has been a lot of pulling in multiple directions, or that's how I feel currently and it's getting confusing at times to be honest. I believe my comment about rugsweeping is being misunderstood. What I meant is that even if I am rugsweeping, it does not matter anymore if we are getting divorced. Another thing I've been avoiding to address so far is that I'm not living in the US but in western Europe and I'll leave it at that. I see many people in this thread are getting annoyed or outright hostile towards me and I believe it is because of my way of writing. English is not my native language so it is quite hard to express myself fluently while I could do the same thing with half the words in my own language. I hope this makes things clearer.



bryanp said:


> The fact that she refused to answer you every time you asked if she was cheating and is now living with this woman says it all. What is there left to say? She seems quite devious. I would strongly urge to contact an attorney immediately in order to protect yourself.


She didn't exactly refuse to answer but denied anything sexual happening. She doesn't think the other events I witnessed are cheating. 

I have no experience about divorces so what exactly I would need to protect? We have no kids or shared property really so it would be 50/50 split pretty much?

It has been mentioned a few times to move this thread to private. Well, I can say now it is no use my stbxw can easily follow there if she is reading this thread. She is not stupid. Even a child can figure out how to gain access there.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> I think this could be a good thing. CIBS will find someone better. At least it would be hard to match the problems with this wife.
> 
> What kind of mother would his wife make? Children are the greatest thing in the world. I have a hard time believeing she wants to be a mom just by her actions.
> 
> I'm guessing her and PT are really parting now.
> 
> I mean, no contact with her HUSBAND. This may be the worst case we have seen here yet as far as how cruel the wayward spouse has been. She has behaved so badly, it really would not matter whether she was in any kind of affair or not. She is extremely lucky she is not my daughter. PT is even luckier.


You really think so? I mean, I've read about the ww who had 20 affairs or the one where she had six year affair with the husband's best friend. Or was it 13 years? Then there was the woman who told the husband she is going to meet the OM in a hotel while him and her child begged her not to go. I am not defending my stbxw's actions but I don't think this makes her evil or bad mother. I think that is out of the line and uncalled for.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> You really think so? I mean, I've read about the ww who had 20 affairs or the one where she had six year affair with the husband's best friend. Or was it 13 years? Then there was the woman who told the husband she is going to meet the OM in a hotel while him and her child begged her not to go. I am not defending my stbxw's actions but I don't think this makes her evil or bad mother. I think that is out of the line and uncalled for.


You have NO clue what your wife has done or how many incidents have occurred. It could be zero or it could be twenty. Until you do, you shouldn't compare your wife to any of these examples. 

Your wife left because of cameras, a thread and VARs. If you really believe that is the only issue, especially if she is staying with the PT not her mom, you are extremely naive or leaving out very important details.

I do notice that every time someone asks you if you have obsessive trust issues, you skip over their questions. 
Have you done something similar before? I'm talking about overreacting, snooping and repetitively calling when your wife is out?


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> You really think so? I mean, I've read about the ww who had 20 affairs or the one where she had six year affair with the husband's best friend. Or was it 13 years? Then there was the woman who told the husband she is going to meet the OM in a hotel while him and her child begged her not to go. I am not defending my stbxw's actions but I don't think this makes her evil or bad mother. I think that is out of the line and uncalled for.


The biggest problem here is that your wife didn't even try to save her marriage. Zero empathy alot of the worst stories end up that the WS's were sexual addicts and they really didn't want to ruin their marriage and their lives but were addicted to the game. They tried to save their marriage. That is not happening here. There is zero empathy which means your wife....Your wife could care less about you and how you feel. You haven't even exposed her yet and she just took off. That is what we mean by this is one of the worst cases. I mean if you are trying to build your life with someone wouldn't you be willing to do whatever it takes to save it. We call it an affair script for a reason. Most of the time she would at least pretend that she wanted to stay with you. That's what normally happens because cheaters like the stability of the husband wife relationship to compensate for the unstable and toxic Affair. They will lie, trickle truth you, and try any and every means to rugsweep. This honestly seems like an attempt at Gaslighting, Where she takes an issues that is bad and makes it a disproportionately large issue. The VAR and the Camera are not "divorcible" offenses. They shouldn't make her go storming out the door calling for a lawyer. 

Now if you want to know where in the affair script running out the door is. Where your wife is willing to bolt out the door. That's usually when there is a long term EA/PA and your wife is trying to determine which life she wants to lead. That's where the zero empathy usually is seen not. "I think my wife might have an affair. ooh wait she found this thread and ran away."

Understand we are not being hostile we are trying to make you understand the situation we see you in based on experience. Now I am truly sorry you are in this situation. But you need to find your wife. And if I were you I would be so mad I'd have a hard time not punching a wall and burning her belongings. We are also trying to prepare you for what you might find. Judging by what you are telling us the situation is a lot worse than you know about. Good luck and believe me I hope I am wrong.


----------



## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> This thread is getting a bit out of hand. There has been a lot of pulling in multiple directions, or that's how I feel currently and it's getting confusing at times to be honest. I believe my comment about rugsweeping is being misunderstood. What I meant is that even if I am rugsweeping, it does not matter anymore if we are getting divorced. Another thing I've been avoiding to address so far is that I'm not living in the US but in western Europe and I'll leave it at that. I see many people in this thread are getting annoyed or outright hostile towards me and I believe it is because of my way of writing. English is not my native language so it is quite hard to express myself fluently while I could do the same thing with half the words in my own language. I hope this makes things clearer.
> 
> 
> She didn't exactly refuse to answer but denied anything sexual happening. She doesn't think the other events I witnessed are cheating.
> 
> I have no experience about divorces so what exactly I would need to protect? We have no kids or shared property really so it would be 50/50 split pretty much?
> 
> It has been mentioned a few times to move this thread to private. Well, I can say now it is no use my stbxw can easily follow there if she is reading this thread. She is not stupid. Even a child can figure out how to gain access there.


I don't think anyone could have known that English isn't your first language, your posts appear to be written by someone with native fluency. I think you got caught up by some of the posters who demanded immediate, rash action. Lots of people here are hurting and tend to project their own emotions on to other posters. Additionally, I think there's a fair amount of voyeurism going on, almost like a real life soap opera unfolding before them.

That being said, my own opinion is that your wife was already looking for an excuse to leave, and your snooping provided that. When a spouse undergoes a body change (extreme fitness, cosmetic surgery) it's often followed by an exit. You can even see by how your mother in law responded to you having a video of the PT, it was presented to her completely out of context. It makes it appear that you were being a perv trying to sneak glances at a hot, scantily clad PT when in reality you were simply trying to break up an inappropriate relationship. Don't beat yourself up, she was looking for an out and would have found one regardless of your actions. You're still young and you guys don't have kids, it's hard but you can walk away without having lost much. Good luck brother.


----------



## KVR

CouldItBeSo said:


> English is not my native language so it is quite hard to express myself fluently while I could do the same thing with half the words in my own language. I hope this makes things clearer.


Maybe this explains why he and his wife don't know what bisexual means?


----------



## weightlifter

CIBS, actually your English spelling and syntax are quite good. Perhaps a bit formal, but they don't teach alot of slang in schools in Europe.

Ill never forget the Swede in my dorm who had NO accent. Remember that Soviet Sub that ran aground in Sweden in the 1980s? I was talking to him and he said he was on a Swedish Naval Vessel that was part of that. I looked confused and he says "Im Swedish" and Im like NO EFFING WAY!

Anyway. In Europe alimony and property division vary country by country and do so wildly.


----------



## TRy

@OP: Your wife is having a much easier time going full no contact with you than she did with the PT. How long has it been since she last contacted you? Now compare this with how short a time she was in no contact with the PT before she left and moved in with the PT. I think that this no contact with you is in retaliation for the no contact that you tried to have your wife do with the PT. Your wife and PT are making a point of showing you how they felt about your no contact demand. I guess that you wife is missing the point that you are her husband and that in her wedding vows she promised to put you before all others.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You have NO clue what your wife has done or how many incidents have occurred. It could be zero or it could be twenty. Until you do, you shouldn't compare your wife to any of these examples.
> 
> It was not me comparing. Chapparal said my wife is the worst case on this forum. I just think that's a bit too much. I'd rather stay in facts and leave the conjecture.
> 
> 
> Your wife left because of cameras, a thread and VARs. If you really believe that is the only issue, especially if she is staying with the PT not her mom, you are extremely naive or leaving out very important details.
> 
> What is it that you want me to say? I have not said I believe her. I don't like making difficult decisions based on guessing.
> 
> 
> I do notice that every time someone asks you if you have obsessive trust issues, you skip over their questions.
> Have you done something similar before? I'm talking about overreacting, snooping and repetitively calling when your wife is out?


Who all has asked this before you? This thread is very fractured all over the place with some off-topic discussions mixed in there. So it's getting confusing who is asking/talking who. I even answered a question about my wife's age which was not apparently directed at me. Plus several posters have this hostile tone in their posts so I rather leave them be.

The answer is no, I have not done anything like this before. I even doubted if I should proceed with the VAR and cameras in this very thread. Neither one of us has had any trust issues before this. No snooping, overreacting or repetitive calling. I truested her completely before this and some even questioned that I have been too naive and trusting in the past, living a single life style and what not. There has been no reason to doubt her before.

Honestly this feels like I need to defend my actions and character almost in every post so I can't concentrate to the subject of this thread. Like I were the cheater in this.


----------



## Trickster

CIBS...

Here is my thoughts, which are so very different.

What if your wife starts to communicate with you. she says something like..I am sorry you got the wrong impression from the massage. HONESTLY...that's all it was... The text messages were also innocent and just girl stuff. The night out with my "FRIEND", I did try to text you to let you know where I was. I was just drunk. I wanted you to come get us...I am sorry about that... When we got home, we were drunk and we talked a short while and both fell asleep on the couch. I HONESTLY don't know how we ended up in the spooning position. I am sorry about that too. I told you I wanted a divorce because I was so angry that you could actually believe I was a lesbian. DON'T YOU KNOW ME? I needed a place to stay and think until I could get a place of my own, so I move in with my "BEST FRIEND". not my trainer, not my AP, I know how it looks though. After all of these years, is that what you think of me? 

I want to come back, *you are still my husband and I love you*...and I miss you. I will not do the no contact with my best friend because I am not guilty of anything. You have to trust me on that. I don't want to be married if you think that I am a lesbian and a cheater and I don't want you looking over my shoulder all the time all because you got the wrong idea and you don't trust me. I can understand how that looked and I am sorry about that. That is not a marriage. plus, I know you don't want to do that either. I promise I will work on better communication in the future and we can communicate better with each other so this doesn't happen again.


----------



## weightlifter

Trick. Please.

SHE MOVED IN WITH THE OTHER WOMAN! 
the reddest flag of all

If this was a guy PT she then moved in with this thread would be case closed, but people wont hold same sex relationships to the same standard.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BrockLanders said:


> I don't think anyone could have known that English isn't your first language, your posts appear to be written by someone with native fluency. I think you got caught up by some of the posters who demanded immediate, rash action. Lots of people here are hurting and tend to project their own emotions on to other posters. Additionally, I think there's a fair amount of voyeurism going on, almost like a real life soap opera unfolding before them.
> 
> Well, I've read english since the 3rd grade in grammar school (that makes 15 years total) but it is still harder than my first language if I need to express certain things fluently. For example I can say "If you only knew" in one word in my native language.
> 
> That being said, my own opinion is that your wife was already looking for an excuse to leave, and your snooping provided that. When a spouse undergoes a body change (extreme fitness, cosmetic surgery) it's often followed by an exit. You can even see by how your mother in law responded to you having a video of the PT, it was presented to her completely out of context. It makes it appear that you were being a perv trying to sneak glances at a hot, scantily clad PT when in reality you were simply trying to break up an inappropriate relationship. Don't beat yourself up, she was looking for an out and would have found one regardless of your actions. You're still young and you guys don't have kids, it's hard but you can walk away without having lost much. Good luck brother.


I agree, this could be the closest to the truth. The reason I've withheld from speculating is simply because my stbxw is more than likely following this thread and I'd rather not make things any more complicated that they are.


----------



## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> I agree, this could be the closest to the truth. The reason I've withheld from speculating is simply because my stbxw is more than likely following this thread and I'd rather not make things any more complicated that they are.


That certainly complicates things.

You must speak a romance language. "If you only knew" could be approximately "supieras" in Spanish. I think English is a bit wordy compared to the romance languages, but that also gives it a meter that I find desirable.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

KVR said:


> Maybe this explains why he and his wife don't know what bisexual means?


Yes it has a different word in my language. Also I see that in English both men and women can be called gay. In my language there is separate word for each. Equivalent for gay is only for men and lesbian for women. Both can be called the equivalent of homosexual however.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

weightlifter said:


> Trick. Please.
> 
> SHE MOVED IN WITH THE OTHER WOMAN!
> the reddest flag of all
> 
> If this was a guy PT she then moved in with this thread would be case closed, but people wont hold same sex relationships to the same standard.


Yes, you have a point. But the standard is different for men and women. Two women can walk hand in hand or arms linked in public and no one will think anything of it. What about two men? People will think they are gay.


----------



## LostViking

I'm of foreign birth and I have lived in the US for over twenty years I write in English much better than I speak it. CouldItBeSo is right that the term bi-sexual is more of an American term. Its not a term used much overseas, so I can easily understand CouldItBeSo not grasping what was being said. 

Having said that, CouldItBeSo you have been given a clear message that your wife no longer loves or respects you. My take on your situation is that she has been unhappy for a long long time, but was playing the happily married wife until she found someone else to jump to. In her case it happened to be a woman, not a man. 

I think you are smart to stop chasing and spying and move straight on to divorce. I agree this is really your only option, and my heart goes out to you. I think you have a much healthier mindset than some of the other posters on this forum, who, in my opinion, get too caught up and obsessive about spying on the alduterer, when sometimes there is no real profit to be gained by it. 

Move on with the divorce and move on with your life. You have the promise of a good future ahead of you without a selfish, decietful spouse holding you back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> Here is my thoughts, which are so very different.
> 
> What if your wife starts to communicate with you. she says something like..I am sorry you got the wrong impression from the massage. HONESTLY...that's all it was... The text messages were also innocent and just girl stuff. The night out with my "FRIEND", I did try to text you to let you know where I was. I was just drunk. I wanted you to come get us...I am sorry about that... When we got home, we were drunk and we talked a short while and both fell asleep on the couch. I HONESTLY don't know how we ended up in the spooning position. I am sorry about that too. I told you I wanted a divorce because I was so angry that you could actually believe I was a lesbian. DON'T YOU KNOW ME? I needed a place to stay and think until I could get a place of my own, so I move in with my "BEST FRIEND". not my trainer, not my AP, I know how it looks though. After all of these years, is that what you think of me?
> 
> This is basically what she said after the couch incident minus the divorce part.
> 
> 
> I want to come back, *you are still my husband and I love you*...and I miss you. I will not do the no contact with my best friend because I am not guilty of anything. You have to trust me on that. I don't want to be married if you think that I am a lesbian and a cheater and I don't want you looking over my shoulder all the time all because you got the wrong idea and you don't trust me. I can understand how that looked and I am sorry about that. That is not a marriage. plus, I know you don't want to do that either. I promise I will work on better communication in the future and we can communicate better with each other so this doesn't happen again.


I will not accept the NC break and she knows this. I have to admit though, it would be very hard bite to swallow if my wife thought I was gay and could lead to divorce eventually.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chapparal was giving you examples. You said your wife isn't that bad. I said you can't make that comparison because you do not know any facts.

I am asking questions because your wife flipped out for a first time offense. That is utterly strange UNLESS, she has a lover or has been tired of something you have repeatedly done.

So, I asked if you have done anything like this to make her walk out. Other people have asked, I am not the first. This is actually my second time asking. You said English isn't your first language, so I wanted to be clear.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LostViking said:


> I'm of foreign birth and I have lived in the US for over twenty years I write in English much better than I speak it. CouldItBeSo is right that the term bi-sexual is more of an American term. Its not a term used much overseas, so I can easily understand CouldItBeSo not grasping what was being said.
> 
> Having said that, CouldItBeSo you have been given a clear message that your wife no longer loves or respects you. My take on your situation is that she has been unhappy for a long long time, but was playing the happily married wife until she found someone else to jump to. In her case it happened to be a woman, not a man.
> 
> I think you are smart to stop chasing and spying and move straight on to divorce. I agree this is really your only option, and my heart goes out to you. I think you have a much healthier mindset than some of the other posters on this forum, who, in my opinion, get too caught up and obsessive about spying on the alduterer, when sometimes there is no real profit to be gained by it.
> 
> Move on with the divorce and move on with your life. You have the promise of a good future ahead of you without a selfish, decietful spouse holding you back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that she probably don't love me anymore but I have a hard time believing it has been for long time. If so, she is a very good oscar worthy actress. We've been together about 10 years and 7 married. She has always seem to be happy with our life. The timing of this just happens to coincidence with the PT showing up in her life. It does not have to nullify our whole marriage however if she fell in love with her or whatever during this time.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

CouldItBeSo said:


> ...It does not have to nullify our whole marriage however if she fell in love with her or whatever during this time.


I'm not understanding what you mean by this. Is this to say you would be ok with her loving the PT and you at the same time, and that is an acceptable condition for the marriage?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Chapparal was giving you examples. You said your wife isn't that bad. I said you can't make that comparison because you do not know any facts.
> 
> Claiming my wife is the worst WW on this forum is one hell of an example. I am not defending her actions but I still don't think she deserves to be called a bad mother etc. because of them. That is simply hateful in my opinion.
> 
> 
> I am asking questions because your wife flipped out for a first time offense. That is utterly strange UNLESS, she has a lover or has been tired of something you have repeatedly done.
> 
> So, I asked if you have done anything like this to make her walk out. Other people have asked, I am not the first. This is actually my second time asking. You said English isn't your first language, so I wanted to be clear.


I really can't recall other than you and Decorum asking if I'm obsessive. I answered him before you. I must have missed the others.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

ET1SSJonota said:


> I'm not understanding what you mean by this. Is this to say you would be ok with her loving the PT and you at the same time, and that is an acceptable condition for the marriage?


See, my grammar is causing this all the time. What I meant is that her not loving me recently does not mean she didn't love me for the first 9 years we have been together (as has been implied) aka nullifying our marriage (making it a sham). Does this make sense?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> I agree that she probably don't love me anymore but I have a hard time believing it has been for long time. If so, she is a very good oscar worthy actress. We've been together about 10 years and 7 married. She has always seem to be happy with our life. The timing of this just happens to coincidence with the PT showing up in her life. It does not have to nullify our whole marriage however if she fell in love with her or whatever during this time.


It sucks and I'm not trying to make you defend yourself. I want you to see how ridiculous her reaction is, unless you have done something equally bad in the past. You said no, so it is completely ridiculous in my book.

10 years marriage vs. A SIX MONTHS BEST FRIEND? There have been other issues and she has not communicated them to you. That's sad.


----------



## LostViking

CouldItBeSo said:


> I agree that she probably don't love me anymore but I have a hard time believing it has been for long time. If so, she is a very good oscar worthy actress. We've been together about 10 years and 7 married. She has always seem to be happy with our life. The timing of this just happens to coincidence with the PT showing up in her life. It does not have to nullify our whole marriage however if she fell in love with her or whatever during this time.


But can you not see that it is a dead issue? She has fallen in love with someone else. If she was as you say happy in the marriage then so be it. But people fall in love all the time. European sexual mores are much more liberal, and I feel she thinks she is justified in pursuing this new relationship for her own gratification. 

There is nothing you can do that will make her come back. She has to decide that on her own. In the meantime continue on with your plans to divorce. Remember the happy times the two of you shared, treasure them, but do not dwell on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ET1SSJonota

CouldItBeSo said:


> See, my grammar is causing this all the time. What I meant is that her not loving me recently does not mean she didn't love me for the first 9 years we have been together (as has been implied) aka nullifying our marriage (making it a sham). Does this make sense?


Absolutely makes sense.

Cheating rarely means anything about the past, perhaps some resentment growing about some issue, or maybe drifting apart. However, when actual cheating, that says a lot about the state of love in the current tense. 

I'm sure you'd like a dissenting voice, but in this case, with her no contact, staying with the PT - there really isn't a plausible other scenario (despite Trickster's statements - apt name and all).


----------



## NewM

CouldItBeSo said:


> I will not accept the NC break and she knows this. I have to admit though, it would be very hard bite to swallow if my wife thought I was gay and could lead to divorce eventually.


Wouldn't it be kinda gay(BI) to have flirty messages and then ending up spooning for the night with male friend who also gave you a massage while you looked aroused?

If she does what trickster explained,divorce her because what she would be saying is that she is picking AP over you.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> You really think so? I mean, I've read about the ww who had 20 affairs or the one where she had six year affair with the husband's best friend. Or was it 13 years? Then there was the woman who told the husband she is going to meet the OM in a hotel while him and her child begged her not to go. I am not defending my stbxw's actions but I don't think this makes her evil or bad mother. I think that is out of the line and uncalled for.


Evidently I did not make myself clear. I did not mean this is the worse case of cheating. None of us know for sure that she was cheating at all.

My point is about how she has behaved since you asked her to stop seeing the PT. If my wife became angry and left for several days, I would worry myself to death not having a clue where she was or if she was safe. She just disappeared. The fact she went to the PT's is an intentional insult to you.

That's the way most people in this country would take it.

May I ask what your religion is if any?


----------



## InlandTXMM

Let me chime back in here, CIBS, with at least an apology.

Like others I had no idea you were using a second language to communicate with us. Your syntax and grammar are excellent. You even correctly use idioms and jargon, which is not easy for my non-native English speaking friends.

I always found the bicycle unusual. Being in Europe where this is much more common than the US, this makes more sense.

Not understanding what bisexual meant now also makes sense. Of course you knew what a woman with interest in men and women was, just not the English word for it. Again, had we known much sooner, we would have been able to look past what seemed strange to us at the time.

I am also a BS without concrete, conclusive evidence of a PA. I have one thing you don't, however: a remorseful spouse. It is hard enough to reconcile and forgive without knowing exactly what I am forgiving, but to try to do so without her making an attempt? No chance.

SO MUCH of our advice was trying to help you get clarity of the situation early on. You knew in your gut something was wrong - so did I and many others. Yet we didn't know how to go about verifying our suspicions, or for many of us, if we even had a RIGHT to do so. (We do.)

Surveillance is important in all cases of infidelity, at least to ensure boundaries are being honored and agreements are being kept, but it is so much more so when the spouse is not forthcoming. As you will read here over and over, cheaters LIE. Amazing lies sometimes. There is a guy here whose wife just swore a couple of days ago, on the life of their baby daughter, no less, that she only kissed her co-worker. Three or four days later, after swearing on the life of her own baby, she admits it is a longstanding sexual affair and she loves the OM. 

Time and time again the betrayed spouse gets a D-Day, then another, then another, then another. Over months and even years. They get to hear a little more at a time and it starts the healing process all over again. It's a form of hell the disloyal spouse will never experience, and it erodes any hope you have of trusting your spouse again. For real healing, having ONE big stab wound is better than to die by a thousand paper cuts. And to make it worse, the WS actually believes this is the right way to do it - saving us from the full force of the pain and dribbling it out to us in doses they think we can take.

That is why this board pushes for full and complete understanding as early as humanly possible, and keeping your surveillance as quiet as you can, never reveal sources, etc. It's not about snooping or spying. It's about getting to the bottom of a mystery that your disloyal spouse and their affair partner desperately DO NOT want revealed. And to reveal your sources simply cuts them off as a tool. 

I was probably one of the harshest posters here, because I was trying to help cut through YOUR fog on this situation. The last thing a man wants to be forced to accept is that the woman he's devoted his life to, has forsaken him. I get that. It is SO tempting to rug-sweep and look the other way. Turn the other cheek, turn a blind eye... you get the idea. The problem is, sweeping it under the rug doesn't do the two most important things for healing - reasserting dignity and respect for the BS, and allowing you to put in place the boundaries and conditions to prevent this from happening in the future.

Your wife knows she has wronged you. In her twisted mind, she might actually hope you will come fight for her, like you once did. She also knows that there will be consequences for her actions (or at least there should be). She's avoiding that now, but the time may come when she is forced to look at the PT, and again at you, and decide which way she wants to live. 

I think NOT being forced to accept responsibility for their actions is where the WS loses their respect for their spouse, ironically. Your wife knows she would never accept the same behavior from you - she knows you would have to answer for it and stop it. So she keeps waiting for that hammer to come down on her. When it doesn't she doesn't see it as an act of kindness on your part. She sees it as an act of weakness.

Until you force that decision on her, she'll never make it on her own. Sadly, your only option now is to file for divorce FIRST. She says she is going to, but she hasn't. The right thing to do now is file and have her served. Make this REAL for her and show there are consequences to her actions. This may now be the only thing that can snap her loose from this affair.

I wish you luck and every happiness in the future. No one deserves happiness more than a person on the victim end of infidelity.


----------



## BrockLanders

chapparal said:


> Evidently I did not make myself clear. I did not mean this is the worse case of cheating. None of us know for sure that she was cheating at all.
> 
> My point is about how she has behaved since you asked her to stop seeing the PT. If my wife became angry and left for several days, I would worry myself to death not having a clue where she was or if she was safe. She just disappeared. The fact she went to the PT's is an intentional insult to you.
> 
> That's the way most people in this country would take it.
> 
> May I ask what your religion is if any?


I've never met anyone from western europe who was particularly religious.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I will not accept the NC break and she knows this. I have to admit though, it would be very hard bite to swallow if my wife thought I was gay and could lead to divorce eventually.


 It would be less hard if you had a similarly suspicious relationship with another man. In such a case, you would make every effort to clear up the misunderstanding with your wife, and dropping the other man as a friend would be a given.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> See, my grammar is causing this all the time. What I meant is that her not loving me recently does not mean she didn't love me for the first 9 years we have been together (as has been implied) aka nullifying our marriage (making it a sham). Does this make sense?


 Not only does is make perfect sense, but it also fits in with what we typically see when affairs take place. The spouse looks back on what was a good marraige and reinvents history to make the marriage look bad, even though the marraige was good until the affair partner came into the picture. If this marraige should end, you should hold onto the good memories because they were real. I am truly sorry that you are here.


----------



## bfree

I'm still not entirely convinced that her relationship with the PT is sexual. I am convinced that the relationship is inappropriate and toxic. At this point it really doesn't matter though. I do think you need to flip the script here. I think you need to communicate to her that SHE is not mature enough to remain in a marriage. Her actions have demonstrated a petulant entitled attitude not conducive to a healthy long term relationship. Your attitude now should be that SHE needs to prove to you that she is worthy of staying married to you. Do not apologize for monitoring her with cameras and VARs. Her behavior and attitude necessitated such action. You need to demonstrate to her that you do not need her and are perfectly ready to move on and find someone worthy of your commitment and really ready for marriage.


----------



## F-102

CIBS, now it makes sense. Like others here, we assumed you were from North America or Britain, and now I see that some of my terms may have been confusing.

When I made reference to the "single party-girl lifestyle", what I and others here mean is that her new friend (in this case, the PT) is probably taking her to clubs or bars where she is probably being approached by men (or women) who think she is not married, as happily married people don't usually go to those places. The PT then was probably encouraging her to talk to these people and to act like she was single again, so that she and your W can do more of it and have fun together.

And you said that they went to bars. In America, we call that "clubbing" (the British call it "pub crawling")-again, something that a "happily married" person doesn't usually do.

I'm truly sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Decorum said:


> CIBS,
> I want to answer a question you ask me, but first let me say that your english is excellent I had no idea that you were not in the US.
> 
> This explains some questions I had. Let me say that anytime a poster has mentioned that english was not their first language that the posters here have always been more careful to communicate well, I have never seen anyone look down on others because of that.
> 
> I said the that I did not want to post because it felt creepy. There are two reasons really, but at the time it was a matter of intuition. To be honest I would have had a hard time explaining until now.
> 
> First I have felt like there was somthing missing from the story, like you were hold back.
> 
> I now realize that is not the case.
> 
> But when I asked I fully expected you to tell me that you had a prior affair and your wife caught you a few years back when I asked you about it.
> 
> Your posts seemed a bit disconnected and the emotions did not seem quite right.
> 
> I now realize that is not the case.
> 
> Honestly Dear CIBS I think it was the fact that you think in one language and are forced to write in another here that made me think you were holding back, I am so sorry, I tend to go with my intuition and had I known i think I would have felt more comfortable posting.
> 
> The second reason I felt uncomfortable posting is the very thing you are complaining about.
> 
> There seems to be an adversarial enviroment in your thread, and I will tell you why I think it happened.
> 
> Usually the posters here try to contribute their combined experience in a way that some consensus is arrived at. There is always a range of opinions and some disagreement but it does not get in the way of helping the OP (thats you of course).
> The situation was different on you thread, there was one poster who seemed to be working to undermine the other posters, who was in some measure was how shall I say it to you "spanking" them.
> 
> This to me was a great distraction to the purpose of helping you. I think the goal is to work to consensus, if my posting starts to conflict in a thread to the point where people would wonder whose thread it is I would back off, but that did not happen.
> 
> You know who this poster is because I asked you about him.
> When things went bad and your wife left this poster tried to make the other posters responsible for it, that made everyone defensive!!!!
> 
> You were not well served in any of this. I have seen it work so much better than this, please believe me.
> 
> People feel bad that the may not have helped you the way they wanted to.
> 
> Many of these posters I have seen put in much time and thought to help a betrayed spouse who is going through that aweful pain and uncertanity.
> 
> Part of the reason you feel like you have to defend yourself at the moment is because people are looking for some reason to explain your wifes actions because it just does not add up, as you know.
> 
> I think my post will help with the tone here, as you said it is nobodys fault, and you are not blaming anyone. Again I think it will be a little different from this point on because of what you have shared in these lasts posts.
> 
> I wish you well and will do all I can to help you, and I know there are a lot of good people who are posting on your thread because I have watched them post for a while now.
> 
> By the way I was one who asked if you have been obsessive in the past or if there was more to the story.
> 
> I realize now why I felt that way, as I have just explained. You would be suprised how helpful it is to know that you are not in the US, it will help us to think about your situation from a different viewpoint. Please dont be offended.
> 
> You seem like a very intelligent man but to know that your culture is a little different form our is helpful.
> 
> Please continue to let us know as things develop.
> 
> I am so sorry for what you are going through.
> 
> Take care!


Yes this makes sense. The reason I avoided mentioning I'm outside the US is because I've seen it many times in English forums non-English people get treated differently or outright ignored because of it.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LostViking said:


> But can you not see that it is a dead issue? She has fallen in love with someone else. If she was as you say happy in the marriage then so be it. But people fall in love all the time. European sexual mores are much more liberal, and I feel she thinks she is justified in pursuing this new relationship for her own gratification.
> 
> There is nothing you can do that will make her come back. She has to decide that on her own. In the meantime continue on with your plans to divorce. Remember the happy times the two of you shared, treasure them, but do not dwell on them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes it is probably a dead issue. The sexual mores differ from country to country and even inside each country. There are 50 countries in Europe so a lot of room for divergence. There are libaral and conservative people just like in the US (and there just happens to be 50 states in the US how creepy is that).


----------



## CouldItBeSo

NewM said:


> Wouldn't it be kinda gay(BI) to have flirty messages and then ending up spooning for the night with male friend who also gave you a massage while you looked aroused?
> 
> If she does what trickster explained,divorce her because what she would be saying is that she is picking AP over you.


Yes it would look gay most likely. However what I've read about the subject, sexual behavior and sexual orientation are not the same thing.


----------



## mablenc

bfree said:


> I'm still not entirely convinced that her relationship with the PT is sexual. I am convinced that the relationship is inappropriate and toxic. At this point it really doesn't matter though. I do think you need to flip the script here. I think you need to communicate to her that SHE is not mature enough to remain in a marriage. Her actions have demonstrated a petulant entitled attitude not conducive to a healthy long term relationship. Your attitude now should be that SHE needs to prove to you that she is worthy of staying married to you. Do not apologize for monitoring her with cameras and VARs. Her behavior and attitude necessitated such action. You need to demonstrate to her that you do not need her and are perfectly ready to move on and find someone worthy of your commitment and really ready for marriage.


Totally agree! Had I known he was not in the US, I Would have thought differently.
When I was single my friends and I visited another country . The hosting family had two daughters my age, they started to hold my hand and were very "touchy" one of them before went to bed was hugging me and very affectionate, I did freak out a bit lol but, it was explained to me by a friend who had visited before that its a custom. And sure enough after walking around it was apparent that females hold hands, and seem very affectionate. I doubt the whole city was full of lesbians 

Lesson learned, we need to think outside if our customs, before we start giving advise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> Evidently I did not make myself clear. I did not mean this is the worse case of cheating. None of us know for sure that she was cheating at all.
> 
> My point is about how she has behaved since you asked her to stop seeing the PT. If my wife became angry and left for several days, I would worry myself to death not having a clue where she was or if she was safe. She just disappeared. The fact she went to the PT's is an intentional insult to you.
> 
> That's the way most people in this country would take it.
> 
> May I ask what your religion is if any?





BrockLanders said:


> I've never met anyone from western europe who was particularly religious.


I got kind of confirmation from her mother where was and it was probably intentional from her part. I see chapparal you already treat it differently knowing I'm not US citizen (you mention the country referring to most people's opinion). It might just be me but I don't think most people exactly agree about things in the US. Nor they do in Europe. Just watch the presidential elections!

Neither of us are religious. It is correct most people here are not religious but many are baptized Christians however. Which is basically where they leave it, the only time they go to church is either a wedding or a funeral. Otherwise they live like atheists. I think though that Catholics do go to a church regularly (?).


----------



## Shaggy

Are you in the Netherlands then?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

F-102 said:


> CIBS, now it makes sense. Like others here, we assumed you were from North America or Britain, and now I see that some of my terms may have been confusing.
> 
> When I made reference to the "single party-girl lifestyle", what I and others here mean is that her new friend (in this case, the PT) is probably taking her to clubs or bars where she is probably being approached by men (or women) who think she is not married, as happily married people don't usually go to those places. The PT then was probably encouraging her to talk to these people and to act like she was single again, so that she and your W can do more of it and have fun together.
> 
> And you said that they went to bars. In America, we call that "clubbing" (the British call it "pub crawling")-again, something that a "happily married" person doesn't usually do.
> 
> I'm truly sorry for the misunderstanding.


Clubbing in here means night clubs or discos with dance floors who serve alcohol. Which are not open at day time (most open at like 9 pm) making it impossible for them to be clubbing at all. Bar=pub in here. Not much different from a place where you go to eat like a pizza place with alcohol serving rights. They went _once _to _one _specific bar which is close to our place (no plural). Which is not exactly a good place to seek company. I got this confirmed recently by an acquaintance who works there.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

mablenc said:


> Totally agree! Had I known he was not in the US, I Would have thought differently.
> When I was single my friends and I visited another country . The hosting family had two daughters my age, they started to hold my hand and were very "touchy" one of them before went to bed was hugging me and very affectionate, I did freak out a bit lol but, it was explained to me by a friend who had visited before that its a custom. And sure enough after walking around it was apparent that females hold hands, and seem very affectionate. I doubt the whole city was full of lesbians
> 
> Lesson learned, we need to think outside if our customs, before we start giving advise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


France?


----------



## mablenc

CouldItBeSo said:


> France?


South America
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> I'm still not entirely convinced that her relationship with the PT is sexual. I am convinced that the relationship is inappropriate and toxic. At this point it really doesn't matter though. I do think you need to flip the script here. I think you need to communicate to her that SHE is not mature enough to remain in a marriage. Her actions have demonstrated a petulant entitled attitude not conducive to a healthy long term relationship. Your attitude now should be that SHE needs to prove to you that she is worthy of staying married to you. Do not apologize for monitoring her with cameras and VARs. Her behavior and attitude necessitated such action. You need to demonstrate to her that you do not need her and are perfectly ready to move on and find someone worthy of your commitment and really ready for marriage.


Yes I agree with this. Even if it's not sexual it is most likely emotional which is probably worse in this case. I want to clear out though that she was not acting entitled or ignorant when she left but she was very emotional and crying etc. which is very confusing.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Shaggy said:


> Are you in the Netherlands then?


No, not confirming anything... Amsterdam is probably the most liberal place in Europe though.


----------



## crossbar

Has she tried to contact you at all since she moved out? Made plans to get the rest of her stuff? Anything?

Hey, it might be a good thing that you're not in the U.S. You probably can get a better deal in divorce courts where you live than what you would in the U.S. Our judical system in the U.S. is so screwed it's not even funny.


----------



## LostViking

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes I agree with this. Even if it's not sexual it is most likely emotional which is probably worse in this case. I want to clear out though that she was not acting entitled or ignorant when she left but she was very emotional and crying etc. which is very confusing.


Yes it is confusing. Why woild someone who is supposed to love you cut off all contact? This is not a spoiled child throwing a tantrum. As someone before said this pure cruelty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

crossbar said:


> Has she tried to contact you at all since she moved out? Made plans to get the rest of her stuff? Anything?


This is what makes me think something is off with this whole story.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

crossbar said:


> Has she tried to contact you at all since she moved out? Made plans to get the rest of her stuff? Anything?
> 
> Hey, it might be a good thing that you're not in the U.S. You probably can get a better deal in divorce courts where you live than what you would in the U.S. Our judical system in the U.S. is so screwed it's not even funny.


No contact so far it seems she is applying it to me perfectly.

I don't know about that if we have any better divorce courts. Usually the man has a clear disadvantage concerning custody and alimony.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is what makes me think something is off with this whole story.


What do you mean exactly by that? I have been thinking this a lot lately and realise now that this might have been brewing six months in her mind and I had no idea until I saw the text.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

CouldItBeSo said:


> What do you mean exactly by that? I have been thinking this a lot lately and realise now that this might have been brewing six months in her mind and I had no idea until I saw the text.


Its called "waking up". I had no clue there was a problem with my ex until I caught her in a lie about where she had gone. After the fact, looking back, I can now see the behavior changes.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> No contact so far it seems she is applying it to me perfectly.


 This no contact with you is at the instigation of the PT. The PT was angry with you when you demanded full no contact with the PT from your wife. The PT is letting you know who the real number one is when it comes to your wife.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


----------



## badbane

You need to be ready for anything and don't you dare let her rugsweep. You have support here if you need us and don't stop until her answers make sense.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


Send a message to a mod and have it moved to the private section. I figured she was reading this as well.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



CouldItBeSo said:


> Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


If she's following this thread then she should know that you had no malice in your heart. You were hurt by her apparent lack of sensitivity to your concerns and really had no good alternatives. After she dismissed your feelings so many times how did she expect you'd respond. If she were in your place what would she have done?


----------



## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


Good luck!


----------



## weightlifter

Keep us up to date CIBS. Good luck. Keep your eyes on your interests not hers.


----------



## Acabado

Good luck.


----------



## Thoreau

You "guess" you will get your answers? CIBS....please....listen to what everyone is telling you. You know in your heart what the truth is. Please don't cave tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old_soldier

CouldItBeSo said:


> Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


My prayers go out to you canitbe so. Please take to heart that you have not done anything wrong.

I believe you are an honourable man that was faced with a horrific situation of deceit and skullduggery, and you reacted in a perfectly normal and honest way.

It appeared to you that someone was trying to destroy your family, and not all parties involved were being truthful with their explainations. You tried to do what ever you could to protect your family, no matter how desperate the action.

You came here annonomously, (nobody knows you or your family members) asking for advice. We gave it to you as interested third parties as we saw the events unfolding. 

Did we get it right? I don't know. Were some of the actions taken by those individules involved questionable and in some cases dishonest? It appears to be so, but no one came here to refute your claims. Again I could be wrong, but I don't think so. 

I have always lived by the premis that, "If something looks like dog crap, smells like dog crap and feels like dog crap, there is the strong possibility that it is dog crap.

Good luck tomorrow with your talk, I hope that loyalty, courage and honesty prevails and things work out for the good for you. Just remember my freind, what you did was done with the best of intentions, you can hold your head high with integrity and honour.

"Hang in there brother, I'm pullin' for ya, we're all in this together." Red Green.


----------



## F-102

CIBS, good luck. It may or may not turn out the way you wanted, but stay strong, or as we say here, "Hang Tough!"


----------



## LostViking

Expect the unexpected when you talk to her. Be prepared to hear some really hurtful things from her as she blames you for her unhappiness and the demise of the marriage. Don't expect her to take responsibility for her behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

CouldItBeSo said:


> Just got a text from stbxw saying she's sorry what has happened and that *she doesn't want to hurt me any more she has already*, asking if we could talk tomorrow evening so I guess I will get my answers then. I'm quite sure she is still following this thread and has been reading the replies.


This actualy sounds bad. Hope to be wrong.


----------



## Thor

The truth will set you free. I hope your wife has the compassion to be genuinely and fully honest with you.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

BrockLanders said:


> I've never met anyone from western europe who was particularly religious.


I would like to answer this but I'm afraid I could get banned while just trying to be funny :scratchhead:,


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Oh, and CIBS, I think you must be carefull not to rugsweep yourself. 

Let the full truth be told, and don't take less than that for an answer. 

I feel you are still in some kind of 'fog' as to not fully realising you might be played by her and PT.


----------



## weightlifter

Actually if she comes clean it MIGHT mean R is possible.


----------



## LongRoadtoRuin

I think trolls abound


----------



## InlandTXMM

To CIBS's wife:

Today, when you talk to the man you married, you need to be completely and totally honest. Please don't keep any aspect of this relationship a secret, even if it embarrasses you, "outs" you as a lesbian or bisexual, or seems to cause him more pain. He MUST have the full understanding of what happened and what you did, and if you deprive him of that, his own mind will fill in the blanks with images most likely worse than what actually happened. He will never have peace if you leave any part hidden.

Please do not blame him for your actions. Yes, it takes two to make or break a marriage, and he owns his part of the relationship and its troubles. But in no way does a spouse do anything to cause the other to cheat. You and you alone made the decision to shift your attention, attraction, and loyalties away from the man you married and on to another. It is a character weakness and an inability to feel empathy for another human being. Infidelity is not a natural occurrence in a troubled marriage; is a mark of extreme selfishness and lack of boundaries. Simply put, you lacked the ability to tell yourself, "no". That is NOT your husband's fault in any way.

You were determined enough to walk out on your husband and into the arms of your waiting accomplice / lover. Now be big enough to own that decision fully and completely. Do not minimize what you've done. Do not discount the profound confusion, sense of loss, and overwhelming emasculation your husband is feeling right now. Have enough mercy on him to be honest with him - totally honest- about who you are and what you want. Even if it is no longer him.

CIBS, you may not be a God-fearing man but I am, and I extend my prayers and best wishes to you today. Hang tough.


----------



## Samus

Ask mods to move this to private forums. Your wife can't see it there, only members with a certain amount of posts can access the private forums.


----------



## PBear

Samus said:


> Ask mods to move this to private forums. Your wife can't see it there, only members with a certain amount of posts can access the private forums.


Or people who pay the $5.00 "Forum Supporter" fee... It's not reall a deterrent, if you know your spouse has a thread that might be interesting. It might keep out the search engines.

C


----------



## badbane

Samus said:


> Ask mods to move this to private forums. Your wife can't see it there, only members with a certain amount of posts can access the private forums.


I wish they would up the number you have to have to get to the private section. It isn't that high. All someone would have to do is go to the general section and post alot there and boom the party is over.


----------



## weightlifter

The problem is unless they make it a high priority to also allow the original posters into private. I was the one that pushed for the RDMU thread to be put in private. The problem was he didnt have access to it then. It took some time.


----------



## aug

Just to note that for CIBS to post in this forum is one of his way of fighting for the marriage (and a side benefit of determining if his wife is worth all that).


----------



## BobSimmons

Honestly if the man was truly worried about his wife reading this he would have sent a PM to the mods to get it moved..he hasn't, which doesn't make sense on any level if he really wanted his thoughts private, which leads me to suspect this thread is BS. Just my thoughts


----------



## highwood

BobSimmons said:


> Honestly if the man was truly worried about his wife reading this he would have sent a PM to the mods to get it moved..he hasn't, which doesn't make sense on any level if he really wanted his thoughts private, which leads me to suspect this thread is BS. Just my thoughts


I kind of wonder that myself..to me I was suspicious at post #1 when he "failed" to mention that the PT was a female..


----------



## Chaparral

BobSimmons said:


> Honestly if the man was truly worried about his wife reading this he would have sent a PM to the mods to get it moved..he hasn't, which doesn't make sense on any level if he really wanted his thoughts private, which leads me to suspect this thread is BS. Just my thoughts


Calling someone a troll or implying it will get you banned.

@Pbear, is it wise to let people know a small donation can get you into the private section?

Good luck to you CIBS, I hope this works out for you and your wife.

I regret that you did not tell us you were not in the US. This kind of thing is not unusual here though not uncommon.


----------



## LongWalk

If CIBS's wife and personal trainer are reading this thread, then this is group therapy, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's certainly not the first time, it's happened.

Several have scratched their heads and left, suspecting *Could it be so* is a troll. Indeed, the avatar begs us to ask if this could be so. But let us put our suspicions aside.

When I was 18 in my first year of college I was infatuated with a girl in my dorm. Half Jewish half Greek she had beautiful wide eyes, light olive skin and lithe killer body. She completely filled my head after a coffee before a class. We were attracted to each other but she was insecure and I was inexperienced, so the sexual/romantic tension was stranded. I didn't know how to approach her like an alpha male. We ended up in different circles, but I met other girls so that took some of the edge off of it.

Fortuitously, in the second semester we ended up together in the same section of freshman English. We met and conversed but I still didn't know how to make move on her because she was so flighty. To my disappointment she often skipped classes. One day after we got our term papers back, the graduate assistant teaching the class asked me to stay behind.

"X's paper on D.H. Lawrence was really good," he said, and after a pause asked me, "do you think she really wrote it herself?"

"She's very smart so I am sure she could of," I rose to her defense, though immediately doubting it myself since she hardly seemed to study.

I raced back to dorm to seek her out and warn her of the teacher's suspicions. Someone told me she was in the resident advisor's room. (note: I don't know what they call them these days, but the RAs were graduate student who got reduced fees in exchange for babysitting all the new students, who would be facing all sorts of new experiences living away from home for the first time.

The RA on her floor was a lesbian woman who smoked a cigar in the kitchen back home to piss off the working class men in her extended family off. I knocked on the door and my mouth must have dropped open in shock. The girl I was longing after was lying on the RA's bed naked from the waist up, getting a massage.

I don't know how but managed to stammer out the news that the lecturer suspected X of cheating. The RA, who definitely knew what alpha was all about never took her hands off X's body, but denounced my discussion with the teacher as inappropriate. If I had been more experienced, I would have asked the girl to meet me alone, instead of spilling out the story in front of the RA, who used it to raise her status as the girl's protector.

It was inappropriate for the English teacher to approach another student with his suspicions. It was also a clear violation of ethics for the dorm RA seduce a girl on her corridor.

Although I was naive, it was clear as day to me that the RA had not just gotten the girl's shirt off; she had also gotten into her pants. I never had a chance establish this a fact. I understood it intuitively from their interaction. I reeled out of the room, my mouth gone dry, feeling completely shot down. 

Looking back at it a few years later, I am sure that she did like me and that I could have gotten her away from the RA, but not by being needy or beta. She was a person who wanted attention and needed some sort of dominant boyfriend/partner.

I ran into her three years later outside the student union. She had transferred from the big U to an exclusive small college and was just about to board a long distance bus. We literally had just a couple minutes catch up. I confessed that I had been so love with her back then. Although it could no longer lead to anything, it still meant something to be able to say it to her. I was brave enough to gain some measure of closure to the whole misadventure.

So, CIBS, if you want your wife back, it is all rather simple. You must have some sense of the physical and emotional attraction you have or had for each other. If your wife is really mainly a lesbian, you don't have a chance. If she is fluid and could go either way, you just have to me more alfa and more loving than the trainer. If the trainer has been giving her multiple orgasms day after day, she'll be in the fog and you're going to have to be creative and confident to lead her out.

Do you think that the trainer loves your wife or simply sees her as a notch in her weight belt?

Do you think your wife's admiration for the trainer's hard body has become something deep and soulful that left what you had a mere dried husk?


----------



## BobSimmons

chapparal said:


> Calling someone a troll or implying it will get you banned.
> 
> @Pbear, is it wise to let people know a small donation can get you into the private section?
> 
> Good luck to you CIBS, I hope this works out for you and your wife.
> 
> I regret that you did not tell us you were not in the US. This kind of thing is not unusual here though not uncommon.


Didn't call him a troll, I said I suspect it was a story. Maybe it's on behalf of a friend going through the same situation? Just doesn't make sense why someone worried about his spouse reading his thoughts, wouldn't send a simple pm to the mods? Anyway I'll bow out.


----------



## mahike

I do hope this meeting goes well and he gets his answers. The one clue that I picked up is "she does not want to hurt him anymore". If he was completly wrong about this she would not have said it like that. There is something she feels guilt about.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS, any update?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

First I'd like to thank everyone here who wanted to and offered help despite my sometimes confusing writing and syntax. It means a lot. I also realise I'm not very good at expressing my own feelings and emotions in English like a native speaker would be and this have set many people off. Like someone said I seem like I'm 'holding back' or distant. This is basically me not writing what I think but thinking how to write what I think. 

Because of certain things I had some doubts if I should write this here but decided to go with it.

She came over yesterday evening and we had a long talk. Things are a lot clearer now. She told that over the months she had developed strong feelings for her trainer. She was very apologetic and emotional and repeated that she did not want it to happen but could not stop it. After some questioning she admitted they had kissed once the night they were drunk but that it was all and nothing else had happened. I don't buy this but it doesn't matter now anyway. She said she and the OW had not talked about anything until stbxw left our place and confessed to her and she told the feeling is mutual. So I was most likely the plan B.

Stbxw had indeed discovered this thread (I suspect she has had an account here way before me) and after going through it had questioned if she could trust me after all the spying but confirmed it was not the reason why she wants a divorce. I got the usual I still care about you but not in love with you crap. She kept stressing that she has an emotional connection with the PT that she has never had with me or anyone else. She also kept repeating that she is not attracted to women in general but only this one. I don't know what to make of that. Granted we were both very young when we got together (18) so neither of us is that experienced really.

In a nutshell, I can't really compete with the OW... That emotional stuff does really hurt more than any physical stuff could. In reality all this probably means she is in love with her and they have had sex multiple times. We are getting a divorce so I have no energy to question her what has happened anymore. I have to accept it and I need to move on. We are trying to go through this as amicably as possible to avoid wasting all our money to lawyers.


----------



## Thoreau

I'm glad you finally got most of the truth, but sad that the truth is what we all feared.

Please CIBS, continue to post here, and now that you know that a majority of posters were correct, listen to them going forward, as you will again receive helpful and proper advice.

Stay strong my friend.


----------



## bfree

CIBS, you got your answers and can at least have some closure. You knew in your gut something was wrong and you were correct. Stay strong and use us as you may need to. Come here just to vent or to ask questions. We are here for you and always will be.


----------



## LostViking

I'm sorry to hear that my friend but at least now the truth is out there, or at least a part of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

BobSimmons said:


> Honestly if the man was truly worried about his wife reading this he would have sent a PM to the mods to get it moved..he hasn't, which doesn't make sense on any level if he really wanted his thoughts private, which leads me to suspect this thread is BS. Just my thoughts


I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you but you have had nothing helpful to add. All you do is chime in now and then and make snide remarks.

If you had read this thread you would know I have already addressed (as have many others pointed out the fact too) why it is not useful to put this in private anymore. A middle schooler can figure out how to get access in there and there is no doubt at this point that she has been reading this. Besides I actually wanted my stbxw read some of the replies and give a bit of a reality check. Strangers can say it better than me because they have no feelings towards her. I have nothing to hide from her at this point so her reading this does not bother me at all. In fact she most likely had a better understanding of my POV while she was away and we weren't talking.


----------



## bfree

Personally I think its good that she read this thread. If she didn't see CIBS aguish and heartache I doubt she would have come to him last night. If she is still reading this I hope she has a good life but I'm seriously concerned that her PT is just using her and will eventually drop her when she's tired of her. She may one day regret her decision to step out on her marriage and give up a good man.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

bfree said:


> Personally I think its good that she read this thread. If she didn't see CIBS aguish and heartache I doubt she would have come to him last night. If she is still reading this I hope she has a good life but I'm seriously concerned that her PT is just using her and will eventually drop her when she's tired of her. She may one day regret her decision to step out on her marriage and give up a good man.


I would hope that such as her feels this: unfortunately it seems far too often the rationalization hamsters makes them completely comfortable with having just dropped someone's years-long investment and love like the latest fashion.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

LongWalk said:


> So, CIBS, if you want your wife back, it is all rather simple. You must have some sense of the physical and emotional attraction you have or had for each other. If your wife is really mainly a lesbian, you don't have a chance. If she is fluid and could go either way, you just have to me more alfa and more loving than the trainer. If the trainer has been giving her multiple orgasms day after day, she'll be in the fog and you're going to have to be creative and confident to lead her out.
> 
> Do you think that the trainer loves your wife or simply sees her as a notch in her weight belt?
> 
> Do you think your wife's admiration for the trainer's hard body has become something deep and soulful that left what you had a mere dried husk?


With all due respect, you are comparing a college crush with almost ten year relationship. That's over one third of my whole life. This has been anything but simple.


----------



## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> First I'd like to thank everyone here who wanted to and offered help despite my sometimes confusing writing and syntax. It means a lot. I also realise I'm not very good at expressing my own feelings and emotions in English like a native speaker would be and this have set many people off. Like someone said I seem like I'm 'holding back' or distant. This is basically me not writing what I think but thinking how to write what I think.
> 
> Because of certain things I had some doubts if I should write this here but decided to go with it.
> 
> She came over yesterday evening and we had a long talk. Things are a lot clearer now. She told that over the months she had developed strong feelings for her trainer. She was very apologetic and emotional and repeated that she did not want it to happen but could not stop it. After some questioning she admitted they had kissed once the night they were drunk but that it was all and nothing else had happened. I don't buy this but it doesn't matter now anyway. She said she and the OW had not talked about anything until stbxw left our place and confessed to her and she told the feeling is mutual. So I was most likely the plan B.
> 
> Stbxw had indeed discovered this thread (I suspect she has had an account here way before me) and after going through it had questioned if she could trust me after all the spying but confirmed it was not the reason why she wants a divorce. I got the usual I still care about you but not in love with you crap. She kept stressing that she has an emotional connection with the PT that she has never had with me or anyone else. She also kept repeating that she is not attracted to women in general but only this one. I don't know what to make of that. Granted we were both very young when we got together (18) so neither of us is that experienced really.
> 
> In a nutshell, I can't really compete with the OW... That emotional stuff does really hurt more than any physical stuff could. In reality all this probably means she is in love with her and they have had sex multiple times. We are getting a divorce so I have no energy to question her what has happened anymore. I have to accept it and I need to move on. We are trying to go through this as amicably as possible to avoid wasting all our money to lawyers.


You now have something CLOSER to the truth.

This forum pushed you in this direction.

If you had not taken the actions you had, based on the advice on this forum, what would have turned out different?

*How much longer would your wife have lied to you?*

The spooning on the couch - not just innocent?

The weird text from your wife to her trainer: "that massage was so good you have good hands... we need to do it again with more time and uninterrupted... xoxo" - not just innocent?

The deleting of texts, the sneaking out - not just innocent?

I am sorry for the way things have turned out. I don't know what country you are in, but surely that country has guidelines for certified physical trainers that include not breaking up client's marriages by stealing their wives. *YOUR WIFE'S TRAINER IS UNETHICAL, IS SHE NOT?*

Your wife says she is not attracted to women, just this one. I am guessing that the physical trainer (clients are ALL women, NO MEN) IS attracted to women, and only women. What are the chances that this is the first time she has had a SEXUAL relationship with a woman who was her client?

*The physical trainer sounds like a predator*. If she continues to have other female clients, it won't be too long before she finds another one to give special massages to like she did to your wife. *Soon, your wife also will know the pain of betrayal*. You would have to be blind not to see this.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Once again, the brightest red flag is that terrible feeling in your gut...


----------



## Trickster

Sorry CIBS… my interpretation on this was all so wrong…I know I will be hammered soon. I am always an optimist and a believer that most people are honest and there is a logical reason people do stupid things. Maybe that is from growing up in a small town. I’ll be quiet for now.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Trickster said:


> Sorry CIBS… my interpretation on this was all so wrong…I know I will be hammered soon. I am always an optimist and a believer that most people are honest and there is a logical reason people do stupid things. Maybe that is from growing up in a small town. I’ll be quiet for now.


At the very least, you can admit when you were wrong. Respect.


----------



## Thoreau

Trickster said:


> Sorry CIBS… my interpretation on this was all so wrong…I know I will be hammered soon. I am always an optimist and a believer that most people are honest and there is a logical reason people do stupid things. Maybe that is from growing up in a small town. I’ll be quiet for now.


Nothing wrong with optimism, unless it's blind. When nearly every poster interpreted things like this correctly, people who have lived through it, it is generally found that the majority is correct.

I usually find Occam to be the proper path in situations such as this.


----------



## SomedayDig

Trickster said:


> Yall suffer from chronic paranoia and are delusional and you guys passed your disease on to CIBS! good grief!





Trickster said:


> Sorry CIBS… my interpretation on this was all so wrong…I know I will be hammered soon. I am always an optimist and a believer that most people are honest and there is a logical reason people do stupid things. Maybe that is from growing up in a small town. I’ll be quiet for now.


It's not just that you were incorrect, it was mostly in the delivery it would seem. That said, it's good of you to admit it.


----------



## mablenc

CIBS, I am si sorry you are hurting, please take care of yourself, eat, sleep, and exercise. Surround yourself with family and good friends. Come here and vent, come here and support others too.

To my fellow posters, I think we should stop going over each detail, the piñata is broken stop whacking it. I don't think it's helpful anymore to have the OP relive each second. Lets help him heal and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I want to make clear that according to my stbxw she was the initiator in all this. She admitted she knew that the PT was into women quite early on from their chats. She admitted setting up the whole massage incident and all the unnecessary contact during their training knowing this. She is attractive and can be very seductive if she wants to. I know this from my own experience. Granted all this could be her trying to protect the PT but I am not a vengeful person so I'm not seeking for revenge.


----------



## Chaparral

For one thing, you can discount 90% of what she said. It is ALL out of the cheaters script. They all say something like this is the love of my life etc. Etc.

This makes them feel better about committing adultery. 

All you can belive is what you know first hand, the PT is a predator and has successfully destroyed a family and the children you would have had. Like I said before, the PT is lucky she did not do this to my family. What a cold hearted, worthless human.

The good news, selfish people always suffer for their sins. The bad news, they will blame someone else.

90% of adultery relationships fail within 3 years. Another 90% of what's left will fail within 10 years. Their relationship will fail. Unfortunately, for your wife, her reputation is history and her future as a wife and mother is so dim I pity her.

In the meantime you will find happiness, a much better wife, kids, and family.

PT will turn your wife into a party girl then drop her when something better comes along. That's the nature of her business. Your wife is not the only woman she is massaging to happy endings. Massage therapists were revealed ,by a study here, to have the highest infidelity/divorce rate of any profession. There are so many threads here about women cheating with PTs its unbelievable. 

Yes you will be fine. I can't imagine the man that would want a woman knowing she had dumped her first husband for a woman though there are a lot of weird men out there. I hope your mother in law wasn't depending on her for grandchildren.

How is the lesbian lifestyle looked upon in your country?


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> I got the usual I still care about you but not in love with you crap. She kept stressing that she has an emotional connection with the PT that she has never had with me or anyone else. She also kept repeating that she is not attracted to women in general but only this one. I don't know what to make of that.


Read the link I posted earlier about the research into female sexual fluidity. In the old times, guys could somewhat tolerate this kind of thing within a marriage to some degree, because divorces had to be granted by jury trial for cause and two women fooling around is not adultery, so there were no grounds; basically, the woman wasn't going anywhere with any of the H's assets. That's all changed under the matriarchy, so these days you have to deal with a WW/OW affair the same as you do with a WW/OM. That means blast forward with the divorce, completely withdraw from her except for divorce related issues, absolutely refuse to engage with her. Get ripped (that means exceedingly fit and low body fat with musculature as big as you can make it). 

Now that the DOW has separated your wife out, she may lose interest. Getting otherwise straight (theoretically) married women to munch their carpet (do any women still have carpet?) is the primary goal, so your wife may not be too happy when DOW sets her sights on a new client. You need to decide now how you want to respond if that happens in the short term. Most likely, you will have moved on.



CouldItBeSo said:


> In a nutshell, I can't really compete with the OW...


this is only true if your wife has wanted to turn lesbian before meeting the DOW. Otherwise, it's just another affair with the same body chemistry, minus seminal mood elevation.



CouldItBeSo said:


> That emotional stuff does really hurt more than any physical stuff could. In reality all this probably means she is in love with her and they have had sex multiple times.


No question about that whatsoever. 




CouldItBeSo said:


> We are getting a divorce so I have no energy to question her what has happened anymore. I have to accept it and I need to move on. We are trying to go through this as amicably as possible to avoid wasting all our money to lawyers.


Go dark with her, do not get drawn into visiting with her about anything other than legal issues. Start dating much younger and hotter women immediately, especially around mutual friends.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> I want to make clear that according to my stbxw she was the initiator in all this. She admitted she knew that the PT was into women quite early on from their chats. She admitted setting up the whole massage incident and all the unnecessary contact during their training knowing this. She is attractive and can be very seductive if she wants to. I know this from my own experience.


 That is an admission that the massage incident was what you thought it was when you saw it. Since this is what triggered your spying, she is validating that you did it with good cause. Never have second thoughts about doing it again. She was in at least in an emotinal affair before the spying and thus your marraige was over anyway.



CouldItBeSo said:


> Granted all this could be her trying to protect the PT but I am not a vengeful person so I'm not seeking for revenge.


 She is for sure protecting the PT, as her primary relationship is now with the PT and you are viewed as the enemy of this relationship.


----------



## Trickster

Don Henley - The Heart of the Matter (Live at Farm Aid 1990) - YouTube

CIBS... This is a song that was popular about the time you were born. It's a song about forgiveness and letting go of anger. 

You seem like a wonderful trusting man. Maybe a lot like myself. wish youall the best.


----------



## Trickster

SomedayDig said:


> It's not just that you were incorrect, it was mostly in the delivery it would seem. That said, it's good of you to admit it.


 
Yes, my delivery could have been much better and less hurtful. Sorry guys!


----------



## InlandTXMM

Wow, I am not surprised but saddened to have CIBS join us in the ranks of the betrayed.

CIBS, the pain is palpable but at least you KNOW. Your gut WAS right - your instincts are good, and there was literally nothing you could do to stop it.

People don't abandon marriages on the basis of a crush, and I doubt the PT was just such a good kisser that your wife ran skipping into the meadow with her over just a kiss. They have been having sex for a long time, probably most of the time she's been her trainer. 

Mach is right - use this time to work entirely on you. Work out, read up on No More Mr. Nice Guy and MMSL and get ready for a wide world of women waiting for a good and decent man to dig their nails into.

We are a brotherhood of sorts. Don't hesitate to lean on any of us as you need to.

@ Trickster - kudos for admitting you were wrong. I know you saw infidelity from the position of a child looking on parents, but most of the rest of us dealt with it as the actual betrayed spouse, so our instincts were sharper.


----------



## Machiavelli

Originally Posted by LongWalk said:


> So, CIBS, if you want your wife back, it is all rather simple. You must have some sense of the physical and emotional attraction you have or had for each other. If your wife is really mainly a lesbian, you don't have a chance. If she is fluid and could go either way, you just have to me more alfa and more loving than the trainer. If the trainer has been giving her multiple orgasms day after day, she'll be in the fog and you're going to have to be creative and confident to lead her out.
> 
> Do you think that the trainer loves your wife or simply sees her as a notch in her weight belt?
> 
> Do you think your wife's admiration for the trainer's hard body has become something deep and soulful that left what you had a mere dried husk?





CouldItBeSo said:


> With all due respect, you are comparing a college crush with almost ten year relationship. That's over one third of my whole life. This has been anything but simple.


Yeah, not quite that simple, but Longwalk is not far off the mark with regards to the mechanics of things. Once your WW figures out DOW has no plans to be monogamous, she may have an epiphany. Is DOW on the juice? Is she very lean? If so, she's probably all over the map sexually.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> Read the link I posted earlier about the research into female sexual fluidity. In the old times, guys could somewhat tolerate this kind of thing within a marriage to some degree, because divorces had to be granted by jury trial for cause and two women fooling around is not adultery, so there were no grounds; basically, the woman wasn't going anywhere with any of the H's assets. That's all changed under the matriarchy, so these days you have to deal with a WW/OW affair the same as you do with a WW/OM. That means blast forward with the divorce, completely withdraw from her except for divorce related issues, absolutely refuse to engage with her. Get ripped (that means exceedingly fit and low body fat with musculature as big as you can make it).
> 
> Now that the DOW has separated your wife out, she may lose interest. Getting otherwise straight (theoretically) married women to munch their carpet (do any women still have carpet?) is the primary goal, so your wife may not be too happy when DOW sets her sights on a new client. You need to decide now how you want to respond if that happens in the short term. Most likely, you will have moved on.
> 
> 
> 
> this is only true if your wife has wanted to turn lesbian before meeting the DOW. Otherwise, it's just another affair with the same body chemistry, minus seminal mood elevation.
> 
> No question about that whatsoever.
> 
> Go dark with her, do not get drawn into visiting with her about anything other than legal issues. Start dating much younger and hotter women immediately, especially around mutual friends.


I don't want this to turn into a debate but I don't believe people can "turn lesbian". I am not a religious person. I have read the fluidity theory and I don't buy it. It is what it is: a theory. I believe everyone has their preferences set before they were born and are either repressing or practising them depending on the pressure put on them by the society. My stbxw said she has an emotional connection with the OW that she never had with me. How can one compete with that?




Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, not quite that simple, but Longwalk is not far off the mark with regards to the mechanics of things. Once your WW figures out DOW has no plans to be monogamous, she may have an epiphany. Is DOW on the juice? Is she very lean? Is so, she's probably all over the map sexually.


I'm sorry I don't understand what do you mean by "on the juice"? And lean, do you mean if she is in a good shape?


----------



## aug

No kids, right? Easier to move on. And she did you a favor by showing her character now. She wont be able to change herself for the better anytime soon. The bright side is you found out now. You are still young. Enough time to find a better woman and lead a happy and fulfilling life. What's better than that?


----------



## aug

CouldItBeSo said:


> I'm sorry I don't understand what do you mean by "on the juice"? And lean, do you mean if she is in a good shape?


steroids. performance enhancing drugs.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> First I'd like to thank everyone here who wanted to and offered help despite my sometimes confusing writing and syntax. It means a lot. I also realise I'm not very good at expressing my own feelings and emotions in English like a native speaker would be and this have set many people off. Like someone said I seem like I'm 'holding back' or distant. This is basically me not writing what I think but thinking how to write what I think.
> 
> Because of certain things I had some doubts if I should write this here but decided to go with it.
> 
> She came over yesterday evening and we had a long talk. Things are a lot clearer now. She told that over the months she had developed strong feelings for her trainer. She was very apologetic and emotional and repeated that she did not want it to happen but could not stop it. After some questioning she admitted they had kissed once the night they were drunk but that it was all and nothing else had happened. I don't buy this but it doesn't matter now anyway. She said she and the OW had not talked about anything until stbxw left our place and confessed to her and she told the feeling is mutual. So I was most likely the plan B.
> 
> Stbxw had indeed discovered this thread (I suspect she has had an account here way before me) and after going through it had questioned if she could trust me after all the spying but confirmed it was not the reason why she wants a divorce. I got the usual I still care about you but not in love with you crap. She kept stressing that she has an emotional connection with the PT that she has never had with me or anyone else. She also kept repeating that she is not attracted to women in general but only this one. I don't know what to make of that. Granted we were both very young when we got together (18) so neither of us is that experienced really.
> 
> In a nutshell, I can't really compete with the OW... That emotional stuff does really hurt more than any physical stuff could. In reality all this probably means she is in love with her and they have had sex multiple times. We are getting a divorce so I have no energy to question her what has happened anymore. I have to accept it and I need to move on. We are trying to go through this as amicably as possible to avoid wasting all our money to lawyers.


I sincerely wish it was OUR "overreactions" and not true. Oh and don't apologize for your syntax. If I wrote a second language, as well as you, I'd be very proud.



> She was very apologetic and emotional and repeated that she did not want it to happen but could not stop it.


Keep it amicable, but don't believe this for one second. People stop themselves from cheating everyday. I don't care if the number is 50%, that still means there are MILLIONS of people who can stop themselves from crossing that line.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

mablenc said:


> CIBS, I am si sorry you are hurting, please take care of yourself, eat, sleep, and exercise. Surround yourself with family and good friends. Come here and vent, come here and support others too.
> 
> To my fellow posters, I think we should stop going over each detail, the piñata is broken stop whacking it. I don't think it's helpful anymore to have the OP relive each second. Lets help him heal and move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. Your posts are very insightful. Since you mentioned visiting South America any chance you got to whack a pinata while there? I believe it's a tradition in SA?


----------



## PBear

chapparal said:


> Calling someone a troll or implying it will get you banned.
> 
> @Pbear, is it wise to let people know a small donation can get you into the private section?
> 
> Good luck to you CIBS, I hope this works out for you and your wife.
> 
> I regret that you did not tell us you were not in the US. This kind of thing is not unusual here though not uncommon.


Considering it says that right in the description of the forum, I'm not worried...

C


----------



## Numbersixxx

CouldItBeSo said:


> First I'd like to thank everyone here who wanted to and offered help despite my sometimes confusing writing and syntax. It means a lot. I also realise I'm not very good at expressing my own feelings and emotions in English like a native speaker would be and this have set many people off. Like someone said I seem like I'm 'holding back' or distant. This is basically me not writing what I think but thinking how to write what I think.
> 
> Because of certain things I had some doubts if I should write this here but decided to go with it.
> 
> She came over yesterday evening and we had a long talk. Things are a lot clearer now. She told that over the months she had developed strong feelings for her trainer. She was very apologetic and emotional and repeated that she did not want it to happen but could not stop it. After some questioning she admitted they had kissed once the night they were drunk but that it was all and nothing else had happened. I don't buy this but it doesn't matter now anyway. She said she and the OW had not talked about anything until stbxw left our place and confessed to her and she told the feeling is mutual. So I was most likely the plan B.
> 
> Stbxw had indeed discovered this thread (I suspect she has had an account here way before me) and after going through it had questioned if she could trust me after all the spying but confirmed it was not the reason why she wants a divorce. I got the usual I still care about you but not in love with you crap. She kept stressing that she has an emotional connection with the PT that she has never had with me or anyone else. She also kept repeating that she is not attracted to women in general but only this one. I don't know what to make of that. Granted we were both very young when we got together (18) so neither of us is that experienced really.
> 
> In a nutshell, I can't really compete with the OW... That emotional stuff does really hurt more than any physical stuff could. In reality all this probably means she is in love with her and they have had sex multiple times. We are getting a divorce so I have no energy to question her what has happened anymore. I have to accept it and I need to move on. We are trying to go through this as amicably as possible to avoid wasting all our money to lawyers.


Let them go to hell together.


----------



## Acabado

I'm sorry man.
You got the truth, the impartant piece of it. You have now direction, a clear path.
Whether you buy the sex fluidity or not is no longer relevant regarding the steps you must take, divorce and detachment. I highly suspect once this affair go south she will go back to straight but at this point she's getting too high, there's no chance in hell she will snap and try to go back to you. The Emotional conetion she never felt with is bull, you now? It's OW is new and different, that's all. It will fade but then it would be too late.

Hang in there.


----------



## bfree

Acabado said:


> I'm sorry man.
> You got the truth, the impartant piece of it. You have now direction, a clear path.
> Whether you buy the sex fluidity or not is no longer relevant regarding the steps you must take, divorce and detachment. I highly suspect once this affair go south she will go back to straight but at this point she's getting too high, there's no chance in hell she will snap and try to go back to you. *The Emotional conetion she never felt with is bull,* you now? It's OW is new and different, that's all. It will fade but then it would be too late.
> 
> Hang in there.


You're correct. Its just another example of rewriting history to suit her current feelings. Straight out of the script. Once this new love is finished with her she will miraculously say that she thought she was in love with the PT but really wasn't. Then she will begin to fondly recall memories of her and CIBS together. But by then he will have moved on and she will be alone. And years from now she will end up settling for someone who isn't half the man CIBS is. It always happens and its always sad.

Meanwhile CIBS will end up emerging from this stronger than ever. He'll date some and realize that he is in fact quite a catch for any woman. His confidence will soar and he will end up marrying a woman several years younger than him who will dote on him night and day.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't want this to turn into a debate but I don't believe people can "turn lesbian". I am not a religious person. I have read the fluidity theory and I don't buy it. It is what it is: a theory. I believe everyone has their preferences set before they were born and are either repressing or practising them depending on the pressure put on them by the society. My stbxw said she has an emotional connection with the OW that she never had with me. How can one compete with that?
> 
> *I don't think there is any doubt about the fluidity theory from what I have seen and read.
> 
> They all say this about the new " emotional connection" , give this no creddence at all. It could all be gone next week. In any event, she will look back on this as her biggest all time mistake. She isn't the first to do something this stupid and she is playing the script as closely as anyone else. It is actually expected for women to have a wandering eye every so many years. Its a cycle. What really happened was her biology is telling her its time to have a baby and the PT happened to be there at the wrong time, and she fixated on the wrong person. Her lack of morals was the last ingredient that destroyed her life.
> 
> Move on find a better woman (well that going to be hard not to do considering) and start having babies. Its the best thing in the world.
> 
> There is a link to the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER read it now as a matter of fact, every man reading this needs to read it as fast as possible.
> 
> Its hard now, but betrayal can be enlightening. While you are the one hurting now, I feel more sorry for your wife. She has thrown away a wonderful man and future father for a cheating woman who will never love her like you do or be there for her?
> 
> What is your mother in laws position on this? *
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I don't understand what do you mean by "on the juice"? And lean, do you mean if she is in a good shape?


*Steroids, for body bulilding*


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## Chaparral

Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I want to make clear that according to my stbxw she was the initiator in all this. She admitted she knew that the PT was into women quite early on from their chats. She admitted setting up the whole massage incident and all the unnecessary contact during their training knowing this. She is attractive and can be very seductive if she wants to. I know this from my own experience. Granted all this could be her trying to protect the PT but I am not a vengeful person so I'm not seeking for revenge.


Your wife has read the prior posts about ethical behavior for trainers, and your wife has lied so much (and almost certainly still is lying about the extent of what happened), so I put no importance on your wife admitting this and, as a matter of fact, I do not believe it.

Trainer likes women. Wife does not. Yet wife seduces trainer. I doubt it. Even if so, what, this trainer has no ethics to turn down the sexual advances of one of her clients? Trainer is and has been in this business for a long while, your wife is new to this. *Can you see how unlikely it is that your wife would be able to seduce a seasoned trainer?*

You have been in denial from your first post, and you still are. I'm sorry if straight talk ruffles your feathers, but your feathers needed some ruffling. I post here no differently than I would talk to a close friend or family member going through something similar.

Your wife does not want you to file an ethics complaint against her trainer turned lover. Have you investigated how many complaints have been filed against this trainer in the past.?
If you read as many threads as I have (which you can if you so desire), then you would know that it is extremely common for the cheater to try to protect their affair partner at all costs.

If you want people to sympathize with your wife's position, you should post more about how wonderful she is. All you've posted here is how she's engaged in very questionable behavior. Even if there was NO CHEATING, your wife's behavior still would have been detrimental to your marriage.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Hey CIBS,

I've read all of your posts. Not everyone else's, but yours.

For what it's worth, my STBXW last AP was a lesbian. She said exactly the same thing your's did. That she wasn't attracted to women in general, just this one (who was hideous, btw).That it was an emotional connection, not physical. And that they had only kissed (yeah right).

Anyways, this affair initiated the end of our marriage. We separated about 4 months ago. D is final next month. You might find it interesting that the lesbian AP is long gone now, and STBXW has now taken up with a man. Don't be surprised if something similar happens to you.

You seem to be handling things relatively well. It's easier since you don't have kids involved. Begin the detachment process. This is only the beginning of a long road. Also don't be surprised if your WW comes begging back when things inevitably go sour with her AP. Mine did.

Good luck.


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## TRy

@CouldItBeSo:

1) Tell everyone that she badmouth you about your spying, that you were right in being concerned and that she was in fact going to leave you for the other woman no matter what you did. Do this now before she puts a spin on it that makes you look like the bad guy. Do not badmouth her, just state the facts.

2) It is a proven scientific fact that affair partners have an advantage over the long term spouse in that the newness factor of an affair will trigger strong chemicals in the brain. These chemicals act as powerful and addictive drugs that will fade over time as the newness wears off. The long term spouse cannot compete with this because they cannot trigger these drugs anymore. Cheaters give in to this, non-cheaters do not. Do not give your wife a pass on being a cheater just because the affair partner is another woman.

3) You are about to discover that as a male, the older that you get the more the dating scale tips in your favor. Since it is common for women to date men that are older than them, women at 20 have a much larger pool of candidates to date then men at 20 which are mostly limited to the very small pool of women their age or younger that are also over 18 and not dating much older men. At 30 that dating imbalance goes away. At 40 it tips in the male's favor. What I am saying, is that now that you are older, dating will be much easier than when you married your wife, and that you have a good chance at upgrading. The odds are good that will meet a great woman, marry her, and live a happy life. You are young, it will work out for you.


----------



## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> *My stbxw said she has an emotional connection with the OW that she never had with me. How can one compete with that?*


Check these threads out. Many cheaters say exactly the same thing your wife has said, which later turns out to be untrue.

I don't know why, but most cheaters are not functioning on an adult level. It is like their minds have reverted back to their teenage years, when every new crush seemed like the love of their life. Your wife is there now. 

There is a very good chance your wife will not feel the emotional connection is so deep once the reality of living together and dealing with all of the problems of day to day life set in. Although they spent a lot of time together and communicated frequently, it is much, much different when you live together, must divvy up chores, and must deal with spending and finances.

On top of that, the SECRECY of the affair is more than half the thrill of it. Without the secrecy, many affairs quickly become not so exciting.

Did you ever hear of the thrill of the chase? The allure of forbidden fruit? Do you not believe that those factors were at play here, the thrill of the chase for the trainer, the allure of forbidden fruit for your wife?

Never mind that the trainer took on a cheater who cannot be trusted and your wife took on a sexual predator who thinks nothing of ethical behavior when training and massaging her female clients, of which she has nothing but. 

Why do you think this trainer has no male clients?

How long before the trainer once again yearns for the thrill of the chase? Do you think your wife is going to mind being in a non-monogamous relationship?

Your wife will be out of this relationship soon enough. I give it six months. Where will you be in six months and will you be willing to take back your wife who claims she has realized the error of her ways?

_"How can one compete with that?"_

For starters, file a complaint with whatever authority certifies trainers/massage therapists in your country. Dig up what you can on the trainer. See if there are any skeletons in her closet. Use whatever you find to make her life as uncomfortable as possible and see if she thinks your wife is worth the effort knowing she will have to face up to her current and any past unethical behavior.


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## Chaparral

Acabado said:


> I'm sorry man.
> You got the truth, the impartant piece of it. You have now direction, a clear path.
> Whether you buy the sex fluidity or not is no longer relevant regarding the steps you must take, divorce and detachment. I highly suspect once this affair go south she will go back to straight but at this point she's getting too high, there's no chance in hell she will snap and try to go back to you. The Emotional conetion she never felt with is bull, you now? It's OW is new and different, that's all. It will fade but then it would be too late.
> 
> Hang in there.


Actually, many times, when a person wants to fight for their marriage and they expose the affair partner and the spouse to friends, family , and business associates, the affair mysteriously implodes. Soemtimes not. Some people do not care if their reputation is shot. Others think, OMG, I have totally screw#d up and runs back to their loysl spouse.


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## Chaparral

Yes definitly check out PTs past and file complaints where ever you can. The next family she breaks up may have children. If you can prevent another man or family this horror, it is your responsibility to do so. Pt is low it is incomprehensible.


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## CouldItBeSo

ThreeStrikes, I read your thread. Sorry to hear that you're getting divorced. I saw you did mention that you 'outed' your xw to her parents. Do you think this affected negatively any possible reconciliation? I am asking this because I kind of did the same thing to my stbxw's mother and I'm not too proud of it tbh. By outing I don't mean the affair but that she is a possible lesbian or bisexual.


----------



## weightlifter

CIBS. Have faith. Mrs CIBS version 2 is out there. It will be a while. You are not near ready now anyway. But she IS out there.

TAM has made you stronger. You will pick better next time. You are young. You have time. Heal, hit the gym, then one day, after a few random hook ups (one night stands which will help heal your ego), you will meet this woman... Who has possibilities. IT WILL HAPPEN.

This is one place that it sucks being right all the time.


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## CouldItBeSo

Another thing is we have quite many mutual couple friends we used to go eating and hang out with. It will be interesting (or painful more likely) to see how they handle this. My bet is all the wives will take sides with my stbxw, how else...


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## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> Another thing is we have quite many mutual couple friends we used to go eating and hang out with. It will be interesting (or painful more likely) to see how they handle this. My bet is all the wives will take sides with my stbxw, how else...


Why do you think this? She's the one who cheated, with a woman no less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

CouldItBeSo said:


> ThreeStrikes, I read your thread. Sorry to hear that you're getting divorced. I saw you did mention that you 'outed' your xw to her parents. Do you think this affected negatively any possible reconciliation? I am asking this because I kind of did the same thing to my stbxw's mother and I'm not too proud of it tbh. By outing I don't mean the affair but that she is a possible lesbian or bisexual.


I exposed to her parents in order to end the affair. That's the purpose of exposure, and it worked. I'm pretty sure she denied any lesbianism to her parents, and they believed her. Her parents believe she can do no wrong. She never suffered negative consequences to any of her destructive behavior patterns as a teen, which I believe contributed to her selfishness and sense of entitlement as an adult. These were devout Christian parents, and image was everything. All the bad stuff was swept under a rug like it never happened.

I don't think exposing her same-sex affair affected any potential reconciliation. After I moved out she begged me to come back. She wanted to work things out. But after so much damage over the years, I was done.

My xw was a serial cheater. She refused to accept responsibility for her issues and choices, and that's the reason for the D. She has some sort of cluster B personality disorder that will challenge all of her future relationships, in my opinion.

So yes, it was time to D. A man has to retain some self-respect, you know?


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## CouldItBeSo

Will_Kane: Yes I can actually see my stbxw seducing a lesbian, even a seasoned trainer one. Even if the OW was a predator my stbxw was still a willing participant. _She _is the one who is married.

I know you all want to see blood and see me go and ruin my stbxw's and the OW's life but I am not going to do it. Snooping her past and stuff will only be detrimental to me in the long run. I get no satisfaction from it. I need to focus on me and my future life and not on theirs.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> Another thing is we have quite many mutual couple friends we used to go eating and hang out with. It will be interesting (or painful more likely) to see how they handle this. My bet is all the wives will take sides with my stbxw, how else...


How are lesbians thought of in your country? 

Don't be surprised, many people will have nothing to do with a known cheater, especially women, unless they lean that way. Do you know of any instances of cheating among your friends?


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## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> Will_Kane: Yes I can actually see my stbxw seducing a lesbian, even a seasoned trainer one. Even if the OW was a predator my stbxw was still a willing participant. _She _is the one who is married.
> 
> I know you all want to see blood and see me go and ruin my stbxw's and the OW's life but I am not going to do it. Snooping her past and stuff will only be detrimental to me in the long run. I get no satisfaction from it. I need to focus on me and my future life and not on theirs.


No, people are telling you what to do if you want to save your marriage. If you don't want to, move on.


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## CouldItBeSo

BrockLanders said:


> Why do you think this? She's the one who cheated, with a woman no less.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One of her friends (her work friend) I talked to was already on her side while her husband took my side. It's going to be a mess.


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## CouldItBeSo

ThreeStrikes said:


> I exposed to her parents in order to end the affair. That's the purpose of exposure, and it worked. I'm pretty sure she denied any lesbianism to her parents, and they believed her. Her parents believe she can do no wrong. She never suffered negative consequences to any of her destructive behavior patterns as a teen, which I believe contributed to her selfishness and sense of entitlement as an adult. These were devout Christian parents, and image was everything. All the bad stuff was swept under a rug like it never happened.
> 
> I don't think exposing her same-sex affair affected any potential reconciliation. After I moved out she begged me to come back. She wanted to work things out. But after so much damage over the years, I was done.
> 
> My xw was a serial cheater. She refused to accept responsibility for her issues and choices, and that's the reason for the D. She has some sort of cluster B personality disorder that will challenge all of her future relationships, in my opinion.
> 
> So yes, it was time to D. A man has to retain some self-respect, you know?


Yes, I totally understand.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> Will_Kane: Yes I can actually see my stbxw seducing a lesbian, even a seasoned trainer one. Even if the OW was a predator my stbxw was still a willing participant. _She _is the one who is married.
> 
> I know you all want to see blood and see me go and ruin my stbxw's and the OW's life but I am not going to do it. Snooping her past and stuff will only be detrimental to me in the long run. I get no satisfaction from it. I need to focus on me and my future life and not on theirs.


Exposure is not meant to destroy your wife, it is not even for hurting the PT. That is just collateral damage to the PT in destroying the affair. In any event you need to take a little time to consider your options. This a COPING with infidelity forum, not a dump and trash the cheaters forum. We try to help people reconcile after infidelity if it looks possible, especially if children are involved.

However, if you haven't looked it up yet, here is the list of things you need to do to move on with divorce if that is your choice: The Healing Heart: The 180

Read carefully, many people skip steps and it negates their recovery. It may even make you more attractive to your wife but that is NOT what it is for.


----------



## TRy

CouldItBeSo said:


> Another thing is we have quite many mutual couple friends we used to go eating and hang out with. It will be interesting (or painful more likely) to see how they handle this. My bet is all the wives will take sides with my stbxw, how else...


 The outcome will depend on who tells them first and how you tell them. Without telling your wife that you are going to do it, you should tell them first. Do not bash your wife, just tell them the fact that she left you for another woman, and that you do not know how to compete with that. Do not offer details. Tell them that you love her and are hurting. Tell them that although she has someone else, you were faithful and do not. Tell them that you would appreciate any friendship and support that they can give you to help you through this difficult time. If you tell them early before they have formed strong opinions, do not bash your wife, and you speak only the truth without anger, you will be surprised at how many decent people will be there for you.


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## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> How are lesbians thought of in your country?
> 
> Don't be surprised, many people will have nothing to do with a known cheater, especially women, unless they lean that way. Do you know of any instances of cheating among your friends?


Generally I would say lesbians are accepted. I don't know anyone who oppose them.

It's interesting that you say "especially women". Why is that? I think this is different in Europe.

I know one of my male friends got caught cheating his wife but they have since reconciled.


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## BrockLanders

CouldItBeSo said:


> One of her friends (her work friend) I talked to was already on her side while her husband took my side. It's going to be a mess.


Yeah but she owned up to what she did (sort of). Surely that vindicates your snooping as it has proven not to be baseless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, people are telling you what to do if you want to save your marriage. If you don't want to, move on.





chapparal said:


> Exposure is not meant to destroy your wife, it is not even for hurting the PT. That is just collateral damage to the PT in destroying the affair. In any event you need to take a little time to consider your options. This a COPING with infidelity forum, not a dump and trash the cheaters forum. We try to help people reconcile after infidelity if it looks possible, especially if children are involved.
> 
> However, if you haven't looked it up yet, here is the list of things you need to do to move on with divorce if that is your choice: The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> Read carefully, many people skip steps and it negates their recovery. It may even make you more attractive to your wife but that is NOT what it is for.


I fail to see a link here but either way, I can't stay married to someone who does not love me. It's a dealbreaker for me.


----------



## LongWalk

CIBS, I didn't mean to equate the experience I had in college with what you are going through in terms of the gravity. Only certain aspects of it.

Several vet posters are of the opinion that the PT will move on to new conquests, leaving your wife to suffer an emotional letdown. Time will tell. One bad sign for the relationship is the speed with which the PT posted the photo of your wife as an example of a satisfied client. Seems more like a proclamation of sexual triumph than affection. Usually new lovers like to keep their relationship private in the initial stages.

Of course, if relationship runs its course, the PT can swap the photo with a few mouse clicks. Will CIBS be in the picture then to catch her on the rebound? Seems he is ready to move on.

How will CIBS's wife tolerate the thought that her partner has intimate contact with women who are remaking their bodies and minds through physical exercise. Maybe she will set boundaries in the relationship, such as no massage for seductive clients.


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## LongWalk

If you as calmly as possible divorce your wife now, because she no longer loves, she may have a change of heart in time.


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## happyman64

CIBS

I know you are hurting. Who wouldn't be?

And you not wanting to expose your wife might be fine but just do not lie for her.

Do not be afraid or ashamed to tell the truth.

She left you for a woman. Not a darn thing you can do about that.



> My stbxw said she has an emotional connection with the OW that she never had with me. How can one compete with that?


And that is the "fog" talking. Read about it on TAM. We see it all the time.

No matter what.

Move on. Find happiness.

And your STBXW is not your friend. Friends do not hurt friends like this. She did not have to cheat or lie.

All she had to do is tell you the truth and walk away.

HM64


----------



## mablenc

CouldItBeSo said:


> Thanks. Your posts are very insightful. Since you mentioned visiting South America any chance you got to whack a pinata while there? I believe it's a tradition in SA?


Piniata's orginiated in Mexcio, my parents are from there. Yes we whack them in very ocassion even the cat's birthday. I will be happy to send you one  by the way they always warn people about bungee jumping in mexcio, why? because the locals wil think you are a pinata :rofl:

I think you are doing great, go out here and have fun, do things you have not done before. You really did not have a chance to be single since you married young. Go travel, make friends and contect with old friends. get rid of the girly shampoos, make the house place your man cave. You mentioned you both had the same group of friends. I would suggest you reach out to your friends too, as the other group my trigger memoires.


----------



## Acabado

CouldItBeSo said:


> ThreeStrikes, I read your thread. Sorry to hear that you're getting divorced. I saw you did mention that you 'outed' your xw to her parents. Do you think this affected negatively any possible reconciliation? I am asking this because I kind of did the same thing to my stbxw's mother and I'm not too proud of it tbh. By outing I don't mean the affair but that she is a possible lesbian or bisexual.


Didn't she outed you as a dirty peeping Tom who spied on her PT? Did she recant on this? Do you know whether she outed herself to her mom as a new discovered bisex/lesbian?
I imagine she also badmouthed you to mutual friends as she did with MIL, how did she do it? What did she say to have her work friend siding with her? Did she denied being a "sl0t" as she said to you? Did she deny being as lesbian or having a relationship with PT? Was she just outtraged due the snooping, the NC ultimatum?
Does she plan to introduce OW as her new GF?
How do you think she's going to come out as lesbian and still maintain the previous badmouthing? Do you see her humbling herself and restoring your dignity or maybe she will change the target to paint you as abusive and such?


----------



## Will_Kane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I fail to see a link here but either way, I can't stay married to someone who does not love me. It's a dealbreaker for me.


You came here posting how much you loved your wife.

Now your wife has said she doesn't love you, she loves someone else.

There are many other cases here similar to yours, where the cheating spouse said "I don't love you anymore" and then, after the affair was exposed and ended, the cheating spouse said "I can't believe I fell for the affair partner's BS lines, they only wanted me for sex, didn't really love me, I made a huge mistake, I really do love you."

Look at Malcolm's thread, for one. 

The advice to find out about the trainer is to give you info to blow up the affair, to scare the trainer off, and to see if your wife still says "I don't love you anymore" or if she changes her tune and says "I can't believe I fell for trainer's BS, I really do love you CIBS."

There are many other threads here where this advice worked, as there are still many others where this advice failed.

I thought you wanted to fight for your wife and for your marriage. I assume that anyone who continues to post here wants to reconcile and save their marriage. If they wanted to divorce, that would be easy, you don't need advice from us, just get an attorney, file for divorce and be done with it.

Good luck with whatever happens in your future.


----------



## Chaparral

InlandTXMM said:


> CIBS, any update?





Acabado said:


> Didn't she outed you as a dirty peeping Tom who spied on her PT? Did she recant on this? Do you know whether she outed herself to her mom as a new discovered bisex/lesbian?
> I imagine she also badmouthed you to mutual friends as she did with MIL, how did she do it? What did she say to have her work friend siding with her? Did she denied being a "sl0t" as she said to you? Did she deny being as lesbian or having a relationship with PT? Was she just outtraged due the snooping, the NC ultimatum?
> Does she plan to introduce OW as her new GF?
> How do you think she's going to come out as lesbian and still maintain the previous badmouthing? Do you see her humbling herself and restoring your dignity or maybe she will change the target to paint you as abusive and such?


I still don't think you get it CIBS. Read this post and read it again. They have literally been playing you.

By the way. Your writing is great, far superior to mine on a touch screen Android.:rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> Generally I would say lesbians are accepted. I don't know anyone who oppose them.
> 
> It's interesting that you say "especially women". Why is that? I think this is different in Europe.
> 
> I know one of my male friends got caught cheating his wife but they have since reconciled.


Normally, women see a cheating woman as a threat to their marriage. Since this seems to be a bisexual situation, that makes her a threat to their marriages as well.


----------



## Machiavelli

CIBS, if your wife's actions are a dealbreaker for you, that is quite alright. I commend you for your decisive move to divorce. Just realize that immediate, decisive reactions are very attractive to women, including those lapping up the flavor of the month (that would be your wife). Don't be surprised if she comes crawling back when she receives whatever legal summons your country's laws require. Harden yourself now, because I'd say the odds are better than 50/50 that if you immediately start legal proceedings, and you also start squiring hot young things around your mutual friends, your wife will be thinking "what have I done?" If so, decide now to not be swayed by her tears.

Well done. She has no shame, no remorse, no empathy. Kick the ***** to the curb.


----------



## LongWalk

Here in this forum forum you have with dignity borne hard questions and even a few kicks by some posters to further understanding of your situation as quickly as possible. You are perceptive and can articulate your values. It is possible that your personal qualities are known to your colleagues, friends and family, and even to your wife.

If this were a coming out forum, the readers would be cheering for your wife and OW. The Disney ending in that context is the gay couple marrying and conceiving children with sperm from Denmark. They then join the annual parade proving all love is equal. If that is what they are headed towards, you can only wish your ex wife happiness, however hard that may be.

However, as Machiavelli and the others point out you have nothing to lose by being resolute and creating a contrast between who you are and what you stand for and the OW. 

If your wife has a conscience, she has already have planted seeds of self doubt about her new course in life. The day that she exposed the camera and VAR and threw them at you was not a good moment for her. Perhaps the OW even encouraged or suggested that she take this approach. How long will it take before your wife gains more insight into the OW as a person?


----------



## InlandTXMM

LongWalk said:


> Here in this forum forum you have with dignity borne hard questions and even a few kicks by some posters to further understanding of your situation as quickly as possible. You are perceptive and can articulate your values. It is possible that your personal qualities are known to your colleagues, friends and family, and even to your wife.
> 
> If this were a coming out forum, the readers would be cheering for your wife and OW. The Disney ending in that context is the gay couple marrying and conceiving children with sperm from Denmark. They then join the annual parade proving all love is equal. If that is what they are headed towards, you can only wish your ex wife happiness, however hard that may be.
> 
> However, as Machiavelli and the others point out you have nothing to lose by being resolute and creating a contrast between who you are and what you stand for and the OW.
> 
> If your wife has a conscience, she has already have planted seeds of self doubt about her new course in life. The day that she exposed the camera and VAR and threw them at you was not a good moment for her. Perhaps the OW even encouraged or suggested that she take this approach. How long will it take before your wife gains more insight into the OW as a person?


Agreed. Once the new tingles wear off and they start sharing the same master bathroom and fighting over whose stuff goes in what drawer, this will settle in as creepy for CIBS's wife. The lesbian couples I know aren't terribly happy people (not homophobia, just an observation).

I've wondered how that works long-term, anyway, because a woman really wants to "nest" in her home, and how can you have two women nesting in the same four walls? 

Based on CIBS's wife's quick change in personality, the PT sounds controlling and dominant and has coached this situation to its conclusion, which I guess would be actual attributes in her line of work. Unfortunately for CIBS's wife and her terrible decision, the PT also likes the thrill of the chase, and her job allows her to spend her day having lots of close, sweaty personal contact with new women (hence, the exclusively female clientele). The PT has already demonstrated that she does not respect the familial and personal boundaries of her clients. She's shown that she does not have a professional sense of restraint or propriety. It's only a matter of time before she charms the panties off the next bored lonely wife.

(Edit- CIBS, it is for this reason alone that the PT deserves her professional reputation damaged. It may be too late for your wife, but making it known what the PT is, will help the next family avoid this tragedy.)

CIBS's wife is in for a RUDE awakening and comeuppance not too far in the future, when she realizes she gave up a man ready to go the full distance with her, for a bit of exploration with an aggressive lesbian PT, who considers the conquest of a married woman the ultimate score. The PT's vanity will demand she do it again and again. My guess is CIBS's wife realizes this too late to salvage the marriage and in a few years will be settling down with the next hapless guy.


----------



## LongWalk

Inland, I have only been frequenting this site for week but have read several threads that progressed to a conclusion. Shamwow's was a riveting tale. At the beginning his self-worth was at bottom but after D his ex came to realize that she had lost the guy who was ultimately cooler than the others but by that point he had moved on. Shamwow's ex could not let her pride go for the sake of R.

It would be insightful if CIBS described his wife's character. Was she always slightly unhappy? Will she be too proud to face up her mistake, if that's what the affair proves to be?


----------



## InlandTXMM

LongWalk said:


> Inland, I have only been frequenting this site for week but have read several threads that progressed to a conclusion. Shamwow's was a riveting tale. At the beginning his self-worth was at bottom but after D his ex came to realize that she had lost the guy who was ultimately cooler than the others but by that point he had moved on. Shamwow's ex could not let her pride go for the sake of R.
> 
> It would be insightful if CIBS described his wife's character. Was she always slightly unhappy? Will she be too proud to face up her mistake, if that's what the affair proves to be?


It certainly sounds like she IS too proud to admit it. She turned the whole sordid thing into a diatribe about "snooping". Also, based on CIBS's recollection of their talk, she is sorry she hurt him but by no means is she sorry for the profound character flaw that allowed her cheating.

See, it was this magical, "never felt this before" kind of connection. Remember, what she and the PT share is something NO ONE has ever felt before in the history of the world. How can a person POSSIBLY be expected to deny the clarion call of her sexual destiny? *rolls eyes*

(Hey CIBS's wife: it's called DOPAMINE mixed with a spash of narcissism. You are addicts, not soulmates.)


----------



## Chaparral

InlandTXMM said:


> It certainly sounds like she IS too proud to admit it. She turned the whole sordid thing into a diatribe about "snooping". Also, based on CIBS's recollection of their talk, she is sorry she hurt him but by no means is she sorry for the profound character flaw that allowed her cheating.
> 
> See, it was this magical, "never felt this before" kind of connection. Remember, what she and the PT share is something NO ONE has ever felt before in the history of the world. How can a person POSSIBLY be expected to deny the clarion call of her sexual destiny? *rolls eyes*
> 
> (Hey CIBS's wife: it's called DOPAMINE mixed with a spash of narcissism. You are addicts, not soulmates.)


You make it sound so tawdry and common. Don't you understand starcrossed lovers when you see them? 

They actually remind me of the folks hooking up on craig's list, and tne "love" you get in massage parlors.


----------



## InlandTXMM

chapparal said:


> You make it sound so tawdry and common. Don't you understand starcrossed lovers when you see them?
> 
> They actually remind me of the folks hooking up on craig's list, and tne "love" you get in massage parlors.


All I can say is, I need to work on my oral skills. Based on how fast she can pull a hetero woman into her lair, this PT sounds like Gene Simmons with less face paint.


----------



## Chaparral

InlandTXMM said:


> All I can say is, I need to work on my oral skills. Based on how fast she can pull a hetero woman into her lair, this PT sounds like Gene Simmons with less face paint.


The most disturbing point is how well she has manipulated the situation to keep her reputation intact.:scratchhead:

How many other husbands think their wife is in good hands? They may as well have a male, player coming into their homes to give their wives "training and rub outs er...........rub downs."


----------



## Acabado

chapparal said:


> The most disturbing point is how well she has manipulated the situation to keep her reputation intact.:scratchhead:
> How many other husbands think their wife is in good hands? They may as well have a male, player coming into their homes to give their wives "training and rub outs er...........rub downs."


I disagree. She had no issues posting a picture with her client/now lover in her website (even before WW stormed out, moved in with her and outed herself)! It clearly was pissing/marking her territory.
Can't see it? They are soulmates, they must be. Otherwise she wouldn't proclaim their love to the world to see. Also they live now together. Their public actions are not more than the proof of the depth of their love. Public actions only legitime their love.
How it's going to affect her bussiness is not an issue at all. Truth is she's right it's unlikely to affect it even she's fully exposed.


----------



## LongWalk

Acabado, I was trying to get to that ethics point in my college reminiscence. The graduate student who was there to guide the young students was ready to fish for fingerlings. The drop out rate at my university was very high in the first semester. Her mom and dad shelled out big bucks, only to have the person who was supposed to help, instead helping herself to vulnerable nookie. Surely, it f**ked up the girl's head. She was already messed up and she ended up wasting an academic year.

The ethical standards of personal trainers cannot be any higher than the manager of the gym, where they work. If the manager doesn't care how many women the PT seduces, it just doesn't matter. Don't forget the sex high is one thing. The endogenous morphine kick from personal trainer is also something to affect emotions.

This is also one reoccurring theme on TAM infidelity. The person getting dumped starts working out to improve their self image and cope with depression. It seems to make a big difference in 180. 

In one thread, a guy who had been cuckolded and was on the road to divorce was stocking the kitchen with Twinkies, knowing she couldn't resist. Since her affair had gone south, but he had not won her back, he was going to drive her weight up so that she would not attract men once their split was complete. He said his kids were eating it, too, so it wasn't immoral. A vet poster said, you're wife is dishonest and you are cruel.

CIBS doesn't seem like the vindicative type. Even if his wife is crazy over the OW, if CIBS can put a good face on D, giving the impression that he gets over her easily, it ought to shock her, unless she had despised and loathed him in secret for an extended period. Sounds more like she was bored and took him for granted.


----------



## Chaparral

Acabado said:


> I disagree. She had no issues posting a picture with her client/now lover in her website (even before WW stormed out, moved in with her and outed herself)! It clearly was pissing/marking her territory.
> Can't see it? They are soulmates, they must be. Otherwise she wouldn't proclaim their love to the world to see. Also they live now together. Their public actions are not more than the proof of the depth of their love. Public actions only legitime their love.
> How it's going to affect her bussiness is not an issue at all. Truth is she's right it's unlikely to affect it even she's fully exposed.


From what I understood, it wasn't a picture about their relationship but a photo describing her Physical Training business.

I don't think it was her showing her girlfriend to the world. Am I mistaken?


----------



## Acabado

It's the context and the timing (Of course I don't buy the timing WW sold OP).
Her GF's STBXH went far enough to spy on her with cams and VARs and expose her to her mom, out her as lesbian, she didn't knew how far he could go to screw her and her bussiness (access to her client list and universal exposure?), she knew WW was reading this thread where exposure was suggested, they obviusly talked about it, weighted the risks... she defiantly posted the picture as WW moved in with her. She willingly toke all the risks, knew current clients, potential clients could get the news very soon... She did it on porpouse, she wasn't unaware how much could cost her client/new GF posting that picture as her marriage was exploding, she knew friends would wonder...


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Acabado said:


> It's the context and the timing (Of course I don't buy the timing WW sold OP).
> Her GF's STBXH went far enough to spy on her with cams and VARs and expose her to her mom, out her as lesbian, she didn't knew how far he could go to screw her and her bussiness (access to her client list and universal exposure?), she knew WW was reading this thread where exposure was suggested, they obviusly talked about it, weighted the risks... she defiantly posted the picture as WW moved in with her. She willingly toke all the risks, knew current clients, potential clients could get the news very soon... She did it on porpouse, she wasn't unaware how much could cost her client/new GF posting that picture as her marriage was exploding, she knew friends would wonder...


That's actually a very good point. I hadn't thought about that particular angle. I figured she could just as easily just be "proud" about her "star" trainee. But in light of the wife knowing about the thread, the subsequent conversations that no logical person could deny HAD to happen in such case, that picture change takes on a different meaning altogether.


----------



## Chaparral

Her clientele may be lesbian. OPs wife may have more bisexual experience than he knows about.


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## ET1SSJonota

chapparal said:


> Her clientele may be lesbian. OPs wife may have more bisexual experience than he knows about.


Ah. How did she come to know about the wonderful new PT?


----------



## All of a sudden

Trickster said:


> CIBS...
> 
> Think about it if you want to damage the credibility of the personal trainer. Unless you are 100% confident all this is true and you can prove it you may find yourself in a lawsuit because of Slander/defamation of character. Now TAM wants you to commit a crime!


Your name says it all.. 

Sorry only halfway through thread


----------



## old_soldier

CouldItBeSo said:


> ThreeStrikes, I read your thread. Sorry to hear that you're getting divorced. I saw you did mention that you 'outed' your xw to her parents. Do you think this affected negatively any possible reconciliation? I am asking this because I kind of did the same thing to my stbxw's mother and I'm not too proud of it tbh. By outing I don't mean the affair but that she is a possible lesbian or bisexual.


No! *My freind you did nothing wrong*. 

You "outed her" because she forced you into it. 

She needed to be outed, to the whole damm world if necessary. Good lord man, she threw you over for a lesbian, then tried to protray you as a perinoid loser. 

She was heartless and cruel to you just to cover up her own dispicable behaviour.

I've said this a hundred times "when one chooses the behaviour, one chooses the consequences."

Her behaviour was reprehencable and required "outing", that was the consequence of her behaviour.

*Be proud of what you did, it was the most honourable thing you could have done.*


----------



## CouldItBeSo

If anyone is interested I filled and left the divorce application to the district court office today. There will be a six months cooling-off period which will begin when they have informed her. After the six month period one of us need to make a demand to the court and they make it final. I talked a half acquaintance lawyer today and she doesn't think we need to lawyer up if we just split everything 50/50.

I also asked her about the PT case just to make some people here, who wanted me to go after her, happy and this is what she said. The administrative agency which supervises physiotherapists will not do anything because I have no proof of anything unethical happening. It is my word against the two them. My stbxw is not a client of hers anymore so they can go and have sex on tv if they want and it will affect nothing. At worst case *I *will get sued for defamation or slander.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS, she LEFT YOU for the PT. That is evidence of an affair. Plus, she's TOLD YOU she had an EA at least.

If you don't want to go forward with a complaint against the PT, I understand, but stop letting other people tell you that there is no evidence.

Short of walking in on an all-out strap-on session, you have all the evidence you need.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

The defamation or slander would be ridiculous. No one in their right mind would believe. Just because she isn't a client now doesn't erase that she was, and that was when their (unethical) relationship started. 
It's not so much that the admin over PTs "do" anything, as the information is out there. Cheaterville is another thing that could be done. Especially if you couch it in terms of opinion, you could state simple facts. But I totally understand if you'd rather just wipe your hands of it. I would urge you to consider the "next guy" that PT decides to awaken the wife of...


----------



## ET1SSJonota

In case I haven't mentioned it CIBS, I know EXACTLY where you are at. My ex-wife "became" a lesbian while we were married (she now tells everyone she always was). I know the betrayal seems "different" - but know this. Sometime, probably soon, you will connect that the immoral actions she has taken was indicative of a larger personality flaw. And don't be surprised, as I was, to find that this wasn't even close to the "first time".


----------



## InlandTXMM

ET1SSJonota said:


> In case I haven't mentioned it CIBS, I know EXACTLY where you are at. My ex-wife "became" a lesbian while we were married (she now tells everyone she always was). I know the betrayal seems "different" - but know this. Sometime, probably soon, you will connect that the immoral actions she has taken was indicative of a larger personality flaw. And don't be surprised, as I was, to find that this wasn't even close to the "first time".


No way was this the first time. You don't destroy your entire life and risk your social standing on a whim.

She has tested the waters for years.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS maybe it's enough to have the PT named in the divorce proceedings. That way it's at least a matter of public record.


----------



## NewM

I don't think you can do anything regarding PT,you could give her bad rep if she has accounts on sites like yelp or any other sites where customers give feedback.

How much money was your wife giving her?If you can ask that money back since she was spending her money on PT and your money was 50/50.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

You guys need to remember I'm not in the US and things work differently here. All they need to say they started their relationship after my stbxw ended their contract (the NC letter) and I cannot prove otherwise. No offense but I believe the lawyer she knows the law better than any of us. So if you can stop beating the dead horse (or pinata). The PT and her life is the least of my worries at the moment and need to start planning mine.


----------



## InlandTXMM

How are you holding up emotionally? Do you have a support network of friends and family for you there?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

ET1SSJonota said:


> The defamation or slander would be ridiculous. No one in their right mind would believe. Just because she isn't a client now doesn't erase that she was, and that was when their (unethical) relationship started.
> It's not so much that the admin over PTs "do" anything, as the information is out there. Cheaterville is another thing that could be done. Especially if you couch it in terms of opinion, you could state simple facts. But I totally understand if you'd rather just wipe your hands of it. I would urge you to consider the "next guy" that PT decides to awaken the wife of...


It is not ridiculous. If I go and start spreading 'false' information (=I can't prove it to be true) she can sue me. There was a case in here not so long time a go where a forum poster got sued and sentenced for slandering a public person on a forum.


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit?

Yes, 50/50 minus your W fitness fees, expenses, and PT. Check the bank and credit card statements for purchases made for the PT (gifts, alcholic liquors at the bar, etc...) Those purchases were used by your W without your consent to cause you to file D.

Moving forward, you will want to seperate the finances. No more contributing to a joint account. If you redeem any investments (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc...) half will be hers. If you hold any of those financial instruments, half the value is hers. Have a retirement account?...half=hers. Own any cars? Life Insurance? Who provides health insurance (if not social medicine where you are at)? 

You have plenty to think about and things to inventory/get in order. Yes, worry about the PT and the legality to expose, but don't forget about with is 'known' about what needs to get done.

Lots of Luck Guy!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> CIBS maybe it's enough to have the PT named in the divorce proceedings. That way it's at least a matter of public record.


This is what I think in the US is called 'no fault' country so the court disregards any reasons for the divorce. There isn't even a place for it in the application.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

NewM said:


> I don't think you can do anything regarding PT,you could give her bad rep if she has accounts on sites like yelp or any other sites where customers give feedback.
> 
> How much money was your wife giving her?If you can ask that money back since she was spending her money on PT and your money was 50/50.





whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Yes, 50/50 minus your W fitness fees, expenses, and PT. Check the bank and credit card statements for purchases made for the PT (gifts, alcholic liquors at the bar, etc...) Those purchases were used by your W without your consent to cause you to file D.
> 
> Moving forward, you will want to seperate the finances. No more contributing to a joint account. If you redeem any investments (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc...) half will be hers. If you hold any of those financial instruments, half the value is hers. Have a retirement account?...half=hers. Own any cars? Life Insurance? Who provides health insurance (if not social medicine where you are at)?
> 
> You have plenty to think about and things to inventory/get in order. Yes, worry about the PT and the legality to expose, but don't forget about with is 'known' about what needs to get done.
> 
> Lots of Luck Guy!


We have a joint account we both put money on and our personal 'spending' accounts for personal stuff. That's what she used to pay the PT so it was her own money.


----------



## ET1SSJonota

Absolutely I recognize you're somewhere else, it just seems amazing to me that it wouldn't be within your rights to say publicly: She hired her as a trainer, I observed them half naked massaging, then she wanted a divorce and went to go live with her. This should be as much about protecting marriages against PT predators as protecting her "image". But again, I DO also recognize the desire to put it all behind. I did the same.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

InlandTXMM said:


> How are you holding up emotionally? Do you have a support network of friends and family for you there?


Today after I left the divorce application, it's starting to finally hit me, the finality of it all. Even though it will take six months at least. It's weird after eight years to come home in an empty and silent apartment... I've just been sitting here alone reading forums lately... I know I need to get out soon. Haven't told many people yet. The couple who visited and my mother. My big sister doesn't know yet (she lives in a different country).


----------



## ET1SSJonota

The best way to move forward is to spur yourself to get out and get active. It doesn't have to be dating. But doing SOMETHING. Get back into doing something you love, if applicable something you gave up to "settle down".


----------



## InlandTXMM

Work out, my friend. A gym if possible. You will get some social interaction, a big reduction in stress, and an increase in your testosterone. Getting in shape will really help you feel more confident and pro-active.

Do you have some guy friends? I'd dedicate a night a week at least to doing some "guy" stuff: go for a drink, maybe have a poker night, golf or at least hit the driving range. It's really critical for you to begin to be a whole person alone. This was the hardest part for me. After 19 years of marriage, I didn't know where I stopped and she started, so I really felt lost.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: I think my wife is having something going on with her PT*



InlandTXMM said:


> CIBS, she LEFT YOU for the PT. That is evidence of an affair. Plus, she's TOLD YOU she had an EA at least.
> 
> If you don't want to go forward with a complaint against the PT, I understand, but stop letting other people tell you that there is no evidence.
> 
> Short of walking in on an all-out strap-on session, you have all the evidence you need.


While I agree with you in theory there is no proof they aren't just friends. Remember this isn't the USA we're talking about.


----------



## InlandTXMM

bfree said:


> While I agree with you in theory there is no proof they aren't just friends. Remember this isn't the USA we're talking about.


I have no idea why adultery would be defined differently here vs. Europe.

Infidelity is infidelity. Betrayal is betrayal. We can argue the semantics of what body part touched where, but my lord, an EA can be as bad as or an even worse betrayal than a PA.

The point is, the CIBs's wife said there was an affair. To the point that she reached a life decision to leave him for this woman. Not to be best friends- that would never violate a marriage agreement and require her to choose between the PT and her legal husband.

The only kind of relationship with a third party that is strong enough to drive a wedge between man and wife is one where the emotional and physical bond has replaced the one in the marriage.


----------



## LongWalk

Inland is right. Train hard to take your mind off everything.

You are acting quickly and resolutely despite the emotional turmoil. You will come out of this stronger than before. Making trouble for the PT is pointless now, given that you are putting yourself first. Your stbxw may confront some psychological troubles in the future, regardless of what she decides about her orientation, but those troubles will not be yours.

Good luck.


----------



## Racer

Couple things CIBS... Gay relationships in someways aren’t that much different than normal ones, but there are a couple ‘glitches’. 

The normal path is they have jealousy, require monogamy, and so forth. So there is that kind of fighting inside the relationship. Where it’s ‘different’: Your wife isn’t a full lesbian and trying to maintain that illusion. Now that she’s caught up in a lesbian relationship.. I do wonder if your wife is up for that. She may not like that culture and it will strain that relationship. Gay people don’t exactly have it easy in the real world as far as judgements on character. I seriously wonder if she knows what she’s getting into.... sounds like she’s still in the fantasy where she isn’t gay. No one is going to buy; “I left my husband and moved in with a girlfriend, but I’m not a lesbian” line. “Complicated” doesn’t cover the half of it.... Secrecy before kept her from having to face that judgement. Now it will be in the open.

You also don’t know if her OW is the type who relishes in the conquest like any OP predator. Once they ‘win’, interest begins to wain as they face the reality instead of the fantasy.

Expect and plan that like most wayward scripts, when the reality kicks in and the fantasy dissolves, she’ll try to get back in with you. You need to make a choice yourself about what you really want. Do not assume she’ll change, she’ll have to prove that to you. This is probably even a higher chance than normal because she’s in a relationship that will also challenge her sense of self.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't want this to turn into a debate but I don't believe people can "turn lesbian". I am not a religious person. I have read the fluidity theory and I don't buy it. It is what it is: a theory. I believe everyone has their preferences set before they were born and are either repressing or practising them depending on the pressure put on them by the society. My stbxw said she has an emotional connection with the OW that she never had with me. How can one compete with that?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I don't understand what do you mean by "on the juice"? And lean, do you mean if she is in a good shape?


The emotional Connection she is feeling is generated by what we call the affair fog. It isn't a real emotional connection. It is shallow and exciting like two lovers meeting for the first time. there is attraction, temptation, lust, and uncertainty. Your relationship is certain, stable, and tested over time. So Once your wife started becoming excited by this PT she started finding ways to get the thrill of being with this person and having this taboo, and exciting relationship. I am sure you are getting only small portions of the truth because she feels guilty. 

This relationship with the PT is false. It seems real but lacks time, trials, and other issues that being in a long committed relationship reveals. I hope I am being clear in that your wife is addicted to the thrill rather than feeling a true emotional connection. After all I am sure the same things she is saying to you are the things she told her family and friends after she met you. 

I want you to understand that you may not have lost your wife. That if you let her go and start working on yourself. ( working out, taking care of yourself, being totally self reliant) Your wife might start realizing her mistake. But it is your decision.


----------



## badbane

CouldItBeSo said:


> Another thing is we have quite many mutual couple friends we used to go eating and hang out with. It will be interesting (or painful more likely) to see how they handle this. My bet is all the wives will take sides with my stbxw, how else...


It is doubtful if you tell them the whole truth. That your wife basically turned her back on you. Whether it be a woman or a man is irrelevant. She betrayed you, your marriage, and your family. she chose to be selfish and inconsiderate. 9/10 Affairs fail and that is factual statistics. The whole world is not going to be against you. It is also likely that anyone that would take your wife's side. You would not want to have in your life anyway.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Here is a supportive message I got from F-102:


F-102 said:


> Godammit, CIBS!
> 
> We tried being reasonable with you, we tried giving you advice, and now that you're down, people try to sympathize, AND YOU"RE STILL ACTING LIKE AN ARROGANT PRICK!!!!!
> 
> No wonder your wife left you!
> 
> As kindly as I can put it-GO **** YOURSELF!!!!!


----------



## KanDo

CIBS,

To reiterate the comments of many, I am so sorry you are here. You are thinking correctly that your goal now should be to move on for yourself. What you don't need to do is accept blame for the dissolution of your marriage. I would let friends and family know you have filed for divorce and when asked, let them know she has chosen her PT over you. Period

Please start looking out for yourself. Exercise, Eat. Be with friends and family. Even if you don't feel too great about you need to be engaged in life.

As was stated by others, it is likely that your STBXW's relationship with her lover will falter. (Good chance it will be before your divorce is final). Real life is not all rainbows and butteflys. Your need to steel yourself and have thought out how you will respond if she comes back to you. I know what I would do Been there, done that, have the t-shirt).

Please trust me when I say things will get better. Be prepared to lose many of your mutual friends, (Another fact of life. The female member of a couple seems to hold sway over couple friendships). But, you will make new friends and discover the countless wonderful women out there looks for a great guy like you.

Be well,


----------



## aug

CouldItBeSo said:


> Here is a supportive message I got from F-102:


He cared enough to get pissed off at you.


----------



## LostViking

Racer said:


> Couple things CIBS... Gay relationships in someways aren’t that much different than normal ones, but there are a couple ‘glitches’.
> 
> The normal path is they have jealousy, require monogamy, and so forth. So there is that kind of fighting inside the relationship. Where it’s ‘different’: Your wife isn’t a full lesbian and trying to maintain that illusion. Now that she’s caught up in a lesbian relationship.. I do wonder if your wife is up for that. She may not like that culture and it will strain that relationship. Gay people don’t exactly have it easy in the real world as far as judgements on character. I seriously wonder if she knows what she’s getting into.... sounds like she’s still in the fantasy where she isn’t gay. No one is going to buy; “I left my husband and moved in with a girlfriend, but I’m not a lesbian” line. “Complicated” doesn’t cover the half of it.... Secrecy before kept her from having to face that judgement. Now it will be in the open.
> 
> You also don’t know if her OW is the type who relishes in the conquest like any OP predator. Once they ‘win’, interest begins to wain as they face the reality instead of the fantasy.
> 
> Expect and plan that like most wayward scripts, when the reality kicks in and the fantasy dissolves, she’ll try to get back in with you. You need to make a choice yourself about what you really want. Do not assume she’ll change, she’ll have to prove that to you. This is probably even a higher chance than normal because she’s in a relationship that will also challenge her sense of self.


This is very similar to what my sister told me when she came out. The hard part wasn't being a lesbian. The hard part for her was trying to live in two worlds: acting straight but having a lesbian private life. 

Trying to hide it took its toll on her to the point where it was affecting her health. After she came out she was MUCH happier and healthy, because she was no longer living behind a veil. 

Your wife is going to have a very difficult time having a lesbian relationship while trying to maintain her straight every day life. She's going to eventually be pushed in one direction or another. I too think she is heading for a crash.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

aug said:


> He cared enough to get pissed off at you.


He can get pissed off all he wants. He should, however, refrain from those types of messages.

Personally, I think he is more concerned about "being right".

This is CIBS's journey. Guide him. Don't flame him.


----------



## happyman64

CIBS

I know it probably killed you inside to file for divorce. I applaud you for having the courage to do it.

It shows your wife that you deserve better in life.
It also shows her you have no fear letting her go.

And yes, pursuing her or the PT is a waste of time and resources.

Focus on you.

And go find the happiness you deserve.

If you do have some time read Kando's thread. It is much like yours but he is well on his way to a better life.

Take care of yourself and keep us posted.

HM64


----------



## InlandTXMM

I know it probably is a waste of time, but if I were CIBS, I'd carry a chip on my shoulder for that PT so large, Michael Moore couldn't eat it in two sittings.

I would want to blow up the affair for the sake of bringing my wife back to planet Earth, and also do what I could to expose a predator being allowed unwittingly into many married lives.

Vengeance on the PT would be like a Diet Coke for me: "Just for the taste of it."


----------



## See_Listen_Love

InlandTXMM said:


> I have no idea why adultery would be defined differently here vs. Europe.
> 
> Infidelity is infidelity. Betrayal is betrayal. We can argue the semantics of what body part touched where, but my lord, an EA can be as bad as or an even worse betrayal than a PA.


I expect adultry is not forbidden by law, and in this case there is no authority difference in the relation, she hired the PT, the PT accepted the work.

So there is from a viewpoint of the law no problem.

Maybe in the US with its history of jury legislation the ethical aspect is weighing much heavier.


----------



## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> CIBS
> 
> I know it probably killed you inside to file for divorce. I applaud you for having the courage to do it.
> 
> It shows your wife that you deserve better in life.
> It also shows her you have no fear letting her go.
> 
> And yes, pursuing her or the PT is a waste of time and resources.
> 
> Focus on you.
> 
> And go find the happiness you deserve.
> 
> If you do have some time read Kando's thread. It is much like yours but he is well on his way to a better life.
> 
> Take care of yourself and keep us posted.
> 
> HM64



I don't consider going after an affair partner as a waste of resources. I consider it protecting ones community. Indifference is how we got in this sorry state. Letting people know what the pt did is a community service. Anything less is crawling under the porch with the little dogs.:rofl:


----------



## Machiavelli

ET1SSJonota said:


> Absolutely I recognize you're somewhere else, it just seems amazing to me that it wouldn't be within your rights to say publicly: She hired her as a trainer, I observed them half naked massaging, then she wanted a divorce and went to go live with her. This should be as much about protecting marriages against PT predators as protecting her "image". But again, I DO also recognize the desire to put it all behind. I did the same.


Look, as unfree as the modern USA is, Europe is a gulag in comparison with regards to libel and slander. He needs video, basically.


----------



## Machiavelli

InlandTXMM said:


> I have no idea why adultery would be defined differently here vs. Europe.
> 
> Infidelity is infidelity. Betrayal is betrayal.


Yeah, it may be betrayal and infidelity, but it's not adultery and never has been. The only woman who can adulterate a man's lineage is his wife and it takes another man to help her do that. Another woman just doesn't have the tools to do the job.

On top of that, Europeans don't legally care about adultery any more than 1/3 of the U.S. states where adultery makes no difference in anything. Politicians write the laws and they are wicked and adulterous.


----------



## Acabado

Hi friend, just wanted to send you strength today.


----------



## LongWalk

Going after the OW makes more sense if there is some potential to damage or embarrass her for her unethical and predatory behavior. But in this setting it seems irrelevant. If the gym is part of a big chain, there might be policy forbidding sexual relations with customers, but how seriously would it be enforced? This is a service industry, not a profession with a long tradition of standards.

If the PT abused steroids, then she might be vulnerable to exposure. But CIBS hasn't said that she sports heavy muscles and a strong jaw line.


----------



## LongWalk

re: Machiavelli's comment
_*On top of that, Europeans don't legally care about adultery any more than 1/3 of the U.S. states where adultery makes no difference in anything. Politicians write the laws and they are wicked and adulterous.*_

Marriage is still one of the foundations of civilization. However, there are modern contradictions that have not been worked out. In both the US and Europe the mere fact that man impregnates a woman, regardless of whether they are married or not, automatically obligates him to pay child support. Gay marriage, surrogate motherhood, the international adoption industry, etc. may be weakening marriage. But politicians would sooner have these lobbies on their side.

This also a reason that no one is going to confront the PT for her behavior. Few would like to find themselves set up to be accused of "homophobia" or "hatred towards gays". In fact, one of the dilemmas for CIBS is that he must choose his words carefully when speaking with friends so that people don't start saying that his masculinity took a blow because the OM was a woman.


----------



## freedom7

CouldItBeSo said:


> It is not ridiculous. If I go and start spreading 'false' information (=I can't prove it to be true) she can sue me. There was a case in here not so long time a go where a forum poster got sued and sentenced for slandering a public person on a forum.


One does not get sentenced for slander.


----------



## LongWalk

re: *Slander*

You are wrong. Slander, libel and defamation need not be false, just the opposite they could be entirely true. In some countries you cannot print photos and make statements about people's private lives in the media. If man X undergoes a botched vasectomy that leaves him sterile and impotent, you cannot print a story with his photo, name and statements about his condition.

The media cannot write whatever they like about rape cases, even if it is all factual.

CIBS clearly understands this.


----------



## Machiavelli

LongWalk said:


> re: *Slander*
> 
> You are wrong. Slander, libel and defamation need not be false, just the opposite they could be entirely true. In some countries you cannot print photos and make statements about people's private lives in the media. If man X undergoes a botched vasectomy that leaves him sterile and impotent, you cannot print a story with his photo, name and statements about his condition.
> 
> The media cannot write whatever they like about rape cases, even if it is all factual.
> 
> CIBS clearly understands this.


Again, these are differences between the USA and other countries. Here's the American take on libel and slander (which means nothing outside the states):

_In general, there are four defenses to libel or slander: truth, consent, accident, and privilege. *The fact that the allegedly defamatory communication is essentially true is usually an absolute defense;* the defendant need not verify every detail of the communication, as long as its substance can be established. If the plaintiff consented to publication of the defamatory material, recovery is barred. Accidental publication of a defamatory statement does not constitute publication. Privilege confers Immunity on a small number of defendants who are directly involved in the furtherance of the public's business—for example, attorneys, judges, jurors, and witnesses whose statements are protected on public policy grounds._

Again, the above is not the case outside of the United States, not even in the rest of the English speaking world.


----------



## Machiavelli

InlandTXMM said:


> Vengeance on the PT would be like a Diet Coke for me: "Just for the taste of it."


As I always say: "Crush your enemies."


----------



## bfree

Machiavelli said:


> As I always say: "Crush your enemies."


"To crush your enemies, and see them fall at your feet - to take their horses and belongings, and to hear the lamentation of their women. That is the best life." - Ghengis Khan


----------



## freedom7

Khan got around. His lineage is extensive.


----------



## Trickster

Hey CIBS...

I know I so wrong on all this. I know most people here may not want to even hear from me...

What is your goal now with your STBXW? I know you were best friends. My wife is my best friend. I'm sad when she goes away for the weekend. I know that you had the same circle of friends. Is this chapter in your life over? Or do you plan to stay friends with your wife in order to keep your group of friends together? It may be hard for then to choose sides.

On the flip side there is always tax evasion? Here in America, the IRS shows no mercy. I know your not out for revenge. Just something to keep in your tool box


----------



## Machiavelli

freedom7 said:


> Khan got around. His lineage is extensive.


Something like 16,000,000 male descendents in Asia alone.


----------



## krismimo

wth happened to this thread? smh


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

People still have gender bias and that causes all types of arguments. Toxic is toxic regardless of gender.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS give us an update. How are you holding up?


----------



## weightlifter

BTW trickster. Way to man up and admit you were wrong. Two thumbs up.

Sort of like a debate on another thread about GNOs and cheating. One poster mentioned she would never cheat. There is about a 70% chance she is right. Unfortunately there is a 30% chance I am right.

I ***HATE*** being right so much here.
I actually PRAY I am wrong
When I post "85% chance cheater" on a thread I cant think of a time where the spouse wasn't at least into a heavy EA.
Reference this thread.

Vars win again.
BTW we gotta think up other places to hide vars. You know AM cheatersite sends people here to check up.


----------



## Trickster

weightlifter said:


> I ***HATE*** being right so much here.
> I actually PRAY I am wrong
> When I post "85% chance cheater" on a thread I cant think of a time where the spouse wasn't at least into a heavy EA.
> Reference this thread.QUOTE]
> 
> I am still sulking that I was wrong….
> This may be the end of the relationship. I hope they will be civil. I know everybody wants CIBS to burn the trainer at the stake. I also think that if there was honesty from his wife and she could have talked about here feeling before all this happened it may have turned out different. That is me thinking that….heck…I don’t know what…Denial maybe?
> I do have another client. The husband and wife were clients, ( AT MY OFFICE) . Lol who divorced. Don’t know why… A year later the ex-wife got into a relationship with another woman who was also divorced and who had kids. Neither one of them had any lesbian relationships. The wife told me that… When they came out, their friends were shocked but supported them. Her and the husband also had the same circle of friends and still continued to be friends, even having dinners together with the group. There wasn’t cheating as far as I know…
> The relationship lasted about 2 years. I think this other woman/mom either realized she could be part of the PTA mom gatherings as well as work related events. Lesbianism in the executive work place played a role there. I am guessing at some of this.


----------



## happyman64

Trickster said:


> weightlifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ***HATE*** being right so much here.
> I actually PRAY I am wrong
> When I post "85% chance cheater" on a thread I cant think of a time where the spouse wasn't at least into a heavy EA.
> Reference this thread.QUOTE]
> 
> I am still sulking that I was wrong….
> This may be the end of the relationship. I hope they will be civil. I know everybody wants CIBS to burn the trainer at the stake. I also think that if there was honesty from his wife and she could have talked about here feeling before all this happened it may have turned out different. That is me thinking that….heck…I don’t know what…Denial maybe?
> I do have another client. The husband and wife were clients, ( AT MY OFFICE) . Lol who divorced. Don’t know why… A year later the ex-wife got into a relationship with another woman who was also divorced and who had kids. Neither one of them had any lesbian relationships. The wife told me that… When they came out, their friends were shocked but supported them. Her and the husband also had the same circle of friends and still continued to be friends, even having dinners together with the group. There wasn’t cheating as far as I know…
> The relationship lasted about 2 years. I think this other woman/mom either realized she could be part of the PTA mom gatherings as well as work related events. Lesbianism in the executive work place played a role there. I am guessing at some of this.
> 
> 
> 
> You should hang out here more often.
> 
> We are usually right and wish we were not.
> 
> ANd I am not tooting the TAM horn.
> 
> But if it looks like infidelity, smells like infidelity and sounds like infidelity well Trickster it is infidelity.
> 
> ANd it really sucks for a lot of spouses......
Click to expand...


----------



## weightlifter

its not that i want to burn anyone at the stake. 

the thing i think is the boldest lie was CIBS wife claiming she was the instigator. i rather doubt it.

i would bet 
1 not the first rodeo of that trainer
2. the most likely scenario is the trainer asked his wife to protect her. though it is entirely possible that trainer is a grade A+ player who can manipulate some women into thinking it was their idea. possibly add in the player game of simply flirting enough subtley and looking for the first good response. ie get the path of least resistance.


----------



## InlandTXMM

weightlifter said:


> its not that i want to burn anyone at the stake.
> 
> the thing i think is the boldest lie was CIBS wife claiming she was the instigator. i rather doubt it.
> 
> i would bet
> 1 not the first rodeo of that trainer
> 2. the most likely scenario is the trainer asked his wife to protect her. though it is entirely possible that trainer is a grade A+ player who can manipulate some women into thinking it was their idea. possibly add in the player game of simply flirting enough subtley and looking for the first good response. ie get the path of least resistance.


This is true especially because the wife and trainer are reading this like there's a test tomorrow, and have been following our advice more than CIBS did.

Oh, and I'll gladly burn the two of them at the stake for you. Lots of mesquite wood here in TX. 

CIBS, awfully quiet. How are you doing?


----------



## weightlifter

ive known two players well.

one was the bad boy. he could be patient if he had one woman in mind. his pull was amazing.

i know a looks player. his pull was also amazing. many men would not even approach women he turned down. his discards are stunners. i know his friend who is very grateful to be his friend and happily takes discards. none of that " im stuck with the fat one". his friend is "stuck" with a woman who is a solid 9 on the 10 scale instead of a 10.

gay or straight. the game is the same.


----------



## LongWalk

> ... entirely possible that trainer is a grade A+ player who can manipulate some women into thinking it was their idea.


Sounds more likely. Whenever people shell out money for PT's they are psychologically vulnerable. The proposition for many is based on the trainer's look. The person who is being molded dreams of reach the PT's level of fitness. The PT can touch the client's body, spotting weights, explaining the location of a muscle.


----------



## 3putt

I still like that IRS idea that Trickster posted last night. It crossed my mind a few days ago, but didn't post it. The more I think about it though, I'm betting that if Miss Wonderhands has so little concern over the family(ies) she's wantonly and without conscience busting up, then her lack of concern and morals over filing taxes responsibly (and legally) couldn't be too far behind.

Last time I checked, the IRS isn't too much into rug sweeping these days either.


----------



## InlandTXMM

CIBS make sure you report the payments to the PT to the IRS. The new minimum for reporting 1099 expenses (her pay) is only $600. If you paid more than that, report it on a 1099 and they will be looking for her to match it up on her own return.


----------



## bfree

If I am not mistaken CIBS doesn't live in the US so the IRS really wouldn't apply.


----------



## 3putt

bfree said:


> If I am not mistaken CIBS doesn't live in the US so the IRS really wouldn't apply.


You're right. Forgot about that. Of course, other countries have their own revenue agencies.


----------



## Trickster

I have a house call for a couple and they always pay cash. They did a 1099 and I reported it. Like I really had a choice. They wanted that deduction for themselves. I am an awesome bookkeeper and I still find minor mistakes. That's one of the problems of being self-employed. Nothing adds up perfectly.


----------



## InlandTXMM

bfree said:


> If I am not mistaken CIBS doesn't live in the US so the IRS really wouldn't apply.


Crap. Forgot about that too. 

Hey, he's in Europe, though. Those suckers LOVE income taxes. I'm sure there is a way to make sure his payments to the PT go to the Ministry of Excessive Taxation or whatever they call theirs.


----------



## azteca1986

Hey, we'll keep our taxes and sense of social responsibility. You gents can keep your guns, lawyers and Michele Bachmann.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

It's been few days since the last update.

Wf6ms had been informed about the divorce. She broke down while she was getting the rest of her stuff and started crying how she felt sorry and guilty about it ending like this. It was hard seeing her like this so I walked out of the room while she was still 'talking'. I guess I'm slowly becoming an emotionless jerk. She was with the OW (wf6ms doesn't have a car) who waited outside in her car. Talked a bit about splitting stuff who takes what before she left. Quite useless update huh? Not much has happened just going through the motions day by day. I think I might be hitting a light depression I have a doctor appointment next week. One thing I see discussed here is that the OW is a player/predator. My opinion is she isn't. The thing is, she is 25 so she's been doing the training at tops 2-3 years. If someone is a predator here it's my wf6ms. She is the more confident one from the two and I still think my wf6ms pursued her not the other way around. It doesn't matter anymore though.

About the taxes we can't report expenses like this (it is a hobby). The tax is included in the price and the one who has the business reports and pays them to the tax office.


----------



## LongWalk

Nice to hear from you CIBS.

re: moral character of PT
It is is easy for visitors to this site to extrapolate from limited information. The discourse that comes forth here should be constructive, but that is a process. Sometimes, as it seems for you, the spouse who has cheated will come here to read. It may make her angry to read some of things that people have written, but nothing that you have written has been anything but heartfelt. She cannot but appreciate you, even if her love has vanished.

Some of these threads die off. Some go on. I think you a smart enough to figure out if you gain from this forum.

Many are skeptical of your wife's new relationship because couples who begin dishonestly are statistically speaking not strong. I don't know the source of this research, but people on TAM are fond of stating this. Regardless, it could be many months before your wife leaves this relationship. You had best prepare to make your way without her.

If you wish to share updates about how it goes with your mutual friends, etc., the forum is here. We can learn from you.


----------



## LostViking

Do you not just love it when the WW turns on the water works?

You should have asked why she was crying instead of celebrating her new glorious life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COguy

Your wife, who committed to you for the rest of your lives, ditched you for another woman. It's OK to be depressed. Actually if you weren't there would be a problem.

You'll get through this. You've got a good head on your shoulders, things will get better. These events have a way of making heroes out of men. Use it to better yourself, and make sure you allow yourself to be sad and grieve, it will hasten the healing process.

Find some activities to get you through the tough times. I literally tried everything after my divorce. Painting, dancing, sculpting, hiking, kayaking, dodgeball, yoga.... It ended up being a wonderful thing. After you get through the grief stage you will realize how poor your relationship really was.


----------



## BobSimmons

CIBS, apologies for my previous, so sorry you are going through this, not a damn person in the world deserves such pain.

I just can't help thinking your wife never truly thought this through. Right now everything seems clear even her decision about divorce, no doubt the excitement of these new emotions makes it easier for her. 

But..

In all honesty she barely knows this woman. Gay or straight it doesn't matter, it's akin to a whirl wind holiday romance that culminates in marriage..but when the dust settles and they move into the routines of day to day life when reality truly hits (probably after divorce when everything is final and you are totally out of her life) I think it will hit her then.

It may not be the regret that will send her running back to you..more of a deep reflective regret that will grow with time and never leave her.

I hope you find your peace, in time someone that shows you the respect and love you deserve. God bless you. Take care.


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> Nice to hear from you CIBS.
> 
> re: moral character of PT
> It is is easy for visitors to this site to extrapolate from limited information. The discourse that comes forth here should be constructive, but that is a process. Sometimes, as it seems for you, the spouse who has cheated will come here to read. It may make her angry to read some of things that people have written, but nothing that you have written has been anything but heartfelt. She cannot but appreciate you, even if her love has vanished.
> 
> Some of these threads die off. Some go on. I think you a smart enough to figure out if you gain from this forum.
> 
> Many are skeptical of your wife's new relationship because couples who begin dishonestly are statistically speaking not strong. I don't know the source of this research, but people on TAM are fond of stating this. Regardless, it could be many months before your wife leaves this relationship. You had best prepare to make your way without her.
> 
> If you wish to share updates about how it goes with your mutual friends, etc., the forum is here. We can learn from you.


In this country, the odds of cheaters staying together for three years is only one couple in ten. Long term thay have about a 3% chance of making it. This is about the only good thing about cheating, IMHO.


----------



## MattMatt

Yep. When my first Long Term Relationship girl friend dumped me for a woman ( I didn't know she was bi) I felt so crushed and broken I did not even date for several years.

I'd proposed marriage to her and, well... it wasn't to be.


----------



## Chaparral

How are your and her friends reacting to this situation? Did you ask her if she was sure this is what she wanted?


----------



## LongWalk

Chapparal, where do those figures come from?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

chapparal said:


> How are your and her friends reacting to this situation? Did you ask her if she was sure this is what she wanted?


I haven't really talked to any of her friends but the one I mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't any of her girl friends will dump her over this. My friends, have been mostly supportive of me but I don't think they know what to say since this not a 'standard' situation exactly. I know it will be awkward if I go to get togethers we used to have (which I will) and if they will be there. She's gonna show up there at some point I'm sure.

She has made it clear the OW is what she wants. In a sense, it has made this easier for me since I have no options. I just have to accept the reality.


----------



## warlock07

Ever thought of talking to the OW ?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

What would I gain from it?


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> Chapparal, where do those figures come from?


Google infidelity statistics. You will be inundated.lol The sad ones concern the children of infidelity.


----------



## weightlifter

CouldItBeSo said:


> I haven't really talked to any of her friends but the one I mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't any of her girl friends will dump her over this. My friends, have been mostly supportive of me but I don't think they know what to say since this not a 'standard' situation exactly. I know it will be awkward if I go to get togethers we used to have (which I will) and if they will be there. She's gonna show up there at some point I'm sure.
> 
> She has made it clear the OW is what she wants. In a sense, it has made this easier for me since I have no options. I just have to accept the reality.


Hope it speeds your healing process.


----------



## Chaparral

CouldItBeSo said:


> What would I gain from it?


This happened so quickly, if what you say is true, the PT may be overwhelmed. She may feel your wif forced this on her.


----------



## LongWalk

CIBS, you are in a very tough situation. When a spouse cheats with a person of the opposite sex one of the worst mind movies is not of great sex with the OM/W but thought that the spouse was actually early on fantasizing about sex with someone of the same gender even when (s)he thought they were making love. I know that she said that what had happened was an unexpected emotional connection, but she may have been trying to "spare" your feelings. I think it's gaslighting.

In fact, by not sharing her inner emotional life with you in some detail -- and she could have written you a letter or arranged to meet -- she is increasing the hurt. So much of your life has gone into a relationship that may have been a facade to conceal her life in the closet. If that was something concluded inwardly early on, then she has wasted important years in your life and hers. That is a dishonesty on another level than adultery. She hasn't even taken the trouble to write you a letter of explanation and give you a chance to put questions to her.

She has "found happiness" by discovering that she could fall in love with another woman. But she is not willing to help you find happiness by understanding what was going on in your life. Not generous of her.

Again, though, who can know what went on in her head.

Do wish to discuss this with her to find closure for yourself?

A few years ago I met a friend for coffee. He introduced me to a lesbian couple (one was a friend of his, a successful business owner in her 30s). We didn't meet to talk about relationships or sexuality. Both of the women were cute and seemed to be in love. I never met them again, but he later said that his friend had fallen in love with a man and was pregnant, a huge shift from her previous life.

How does that work? Who knows, but her partner is not deceived because she was open about her gay identity. He must live with reality that if she becomes emotional attached to another woman she could be cake eating.


----------



## meiying

Hi ' This is my first day here and would like to share with everyone about my wife's new occupation as a massage therapist.She Is Chinese I am a White boy. She worked at large shopping mall for some time and that was not so problematic, Lots of couple's and family's would come in and they had several male massage employed their ,But for about five month's she has work at a very isolated location, that seems to be a once one level apartment building with other small shops. At night all that is left open is my wife's Place and now 99.9 of all customer's are male' Quiet a change from the Mall. She works their with one other Chinese girl and Often at night she is alone with a client. If she were to have trouble no one could hear her because all other shop's empty around six or so.I am not a jealous man, But recently I have seen her Phone Text's from client's she has given here # to and it is pretty bad four letter word stuff asking for more than what's legal.she has denied that there was even anything on her phone to see and now I also know one man calls her at our home past 11:00 pm 21 minute call was the last one I do not think it takes that long to make an appointment.When I say anything about this to her she gets enraged. Need help!


----------



## meiying

Hi ' This is my first day here and would like to share with everyone about my wife's new occupation as a massage therapist.She Is Chinese I am a White boy. She worked at large shopping mall for some time and that was not so problematic, Lots of couple's and family's would come in and they had several male massage employed their ,But for about five month's she has work at a very isolated location, that seems to be a once one level apartment building with other small shops. At night all that is left open is my wife's Place and now 99.9 of all customer's are male' Quiet a change from the Mall. She works their with one other Chinese girl and Often at night she is alone with a client. If she were to have trouble no one could hear her because all other shop's are empty around six or so.I am not a jealous man, But recently I have seen her Phone Text's from client's she has given her cell # to and it is pretty bad four letter word stuff asking for more than what's legal.she has denied that there was even anything on her phone to see and now I also know one man calls her at our home past 11:00 pm 21 minute call was the last one I do not think it takes that long to make an appointment.When I say anything about this to her she gets enraged. Need help!


----------



## the guy

@meiying,
Start your own htread and you will get more specific advise for your problem


----------



## badbane

THis made me sick to my stomach. I was really hoping your wife would see the light. And I am almost 100 % certain I remember thread about a guy having something for his pt. I am willing to bet that was her trying to hide herself or at the least she probably put it in a different part of the forum. I really pulling for you man. I am picky about the threads I follow. This one I was in from the start and was glad to see you progress towards a decisive action. I don't want to leave you with too much hope. However I think that this relationship will fail. When it does there may be hope in the future. I doubt you will care in the future because what I hope you do now is put this behind you. Your marriage with your wife is over but, your life isn't. You have a lot to offer people and now you have nothing but options.


----------



## happyman64

Coulditbeso

I just wanted to ask you how you are doing?

Did you go see you your Doctor?

No matter what take the time to focus on you.

There is not one thing you can do right now but divorce your wife and heal.

In time life will go on. The key is to get over her and hop back on.

Keep posting.

HM64


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## LongWalk

If you look back in TAM CWI threads, you will find that your situation was hardly unique, although we are all unique is some way.

Have you given up on TAM?


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## real deep love

even if initial there was nothing between them, it is obvious that your wife want something. the sooner you disengage that personal trainer the better for your marriage. a massage in your bedroom?... incredible!!!


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## doubletrouble

I met my first wife who was a virgin at age 25, after having been to college and everything. 
Turns out she like the gals... I had a pretty sexless marriage, especially after I left her for a couple years early on. 
I don't feel so bad about her orientation as I do about my waste of effing time on the relationship. 
Now I'm with a beautiful, wonderful heterosexual woman who could wear me out if she wanted to, and I am one happy man. 
You are right CIBS, you can't compete.


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