# Sorry, if it's a bit long winded



## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

Hello everyone. I have been reading this forum for a few days now and wanted to get some others' insight into my situation.

My wife and I have been together for my entire adult life pretty much. I am now 31. We have 3 children. The first few years we didn't really have any problems. However, I have had struggles with anger issues since I was a kid. This can manifest most of the time in a pretty negative attitude. I am argumentative about little things but it has occasionally turned to some pretty bad verbal abuse. These issues started to slowly invade our marriage after a few years and when they started to get really bad my wife and I started separating every year or few years. Sometimes at her behest, sometimes mine. 

During these separations, my wife would typically start some relationship with someone online she barely knew. During one of these relationships she moved a guy into her house just weeks after our relationship ended. She lied to me and told me he was just staying there a few weeks because he was looking to go to college in town. But the weeks went by and he was still there. I became very clear that I was not comfortable with what was essentially a stranger living under the same roof as my children. She said she understood and asked if we could all have lunch together to meet each other and if that would make me feel better. I agreed to it. After meeting this guy and determining he was not threatening in the least (big mistake) I kind of just cooled off and went on with my life. 

Later that year, at Thanksgiving, my son mentioned "the baby in mommy's belly." When I asked her what this was about, she started to pass it off as just some silly thing kids say but after grilling her she admitted that she was pregnant. We were still married, had not actively pursued a divorce. I noticed by Christmas she had an engagement ring and we started to talk about divorce more and more. I would come over quite a bit and everything was usually hunky dory. If anything it was abnormal how comfortable she was with me being around. As we started the divorce process, I noticed she would begin flirting with me and hitting on me. One day, she called me at work crying and stated that she had caught her fiancee/boyfriend/whatever asking an underage girl for nude pics. I rushed right over and within minutes he was gone, never to be heard from again. We immediately started our relationship back up.

We separated one time after that, due to my not being happy about the way our marriage was going. She would spend her entire day playing World of Warcraft and not doing anything else. I couldn't take it anymore. So I left, started and renting a house and thought everything was fine. She started another relationship again and started financially supporting this new guy who couldn't keep a job and moved him in very quickly. Even though I was the one who left, this relationship devastated me because she seemed to be very happy. I would date a few women but would always run away before it started getting serious. A year later I discovered that my wife's relationship was anything but happy, both of them would do nothing but sit in the bedroom and play video games. Her boyfriend started an EA with someone else and she asked him to leave. He did but only after taking her TV, Xbox, etc. and pawning it.

After this, we were both trying out dating but were starting to sleep together again pretty frequently. This eventually turned into talk of moving back in together. However, we both agreed that we needed counseling first and I found us a therapist for both individual and couples counseling. Despite our vow to get better first, we moved back in together. My bouts of verbal abuse seemed to be under control but I would constantly bicker with her about some things mainly sex and her participating in erotic role play in World of Warcraft.

I had a problem with the erotic role playing for obvious reasons but she stated it was always "in character" and helped with her writing. I eventually relented because she stated it never crossed to out of character. However, I began to notice that some guys would make comments to her out of character calling her "baby and "sexy lady." She typically would stop contact if I voiced a problem. But with one individual in particular I noticed she would hurriedly close conversations with him when I walked into the room. I came home once to find the bedroom door shut (which she never does) and she was ending a voice chat with someone. I told her that I suspected these conversations were a little more than she was letting on. She told me I was paranoid and that if I didn't trust her things weren't going to work out. She also stated this guy was her friend's boyfriend and he was just really flirty. This went on for weeks, back and forth. We would fight, I would end up sleeping on the couch and in the middle of the night she would ask me to come to bed and she would apologize. She said she understood why I was upset. 

After one of these make up sessions, I checked her computer the next day I noticed she had been looking up information on divorces and hotel rooms. When I confronted about this, she said she didn't know if things were going to work. I was shocked because we had not fought since we made up. But OK. we talked and agreed to separate again. We agreed that I would move out within the week despite the bind it would put me in. We made love and she told me I was the only guys she ever wanted to be with. But something just wasn't clicking in my head. I installed a keylogger on her computer and discovered that she was planning on helping the guy she was taking to town. She advised we had to wait until I moved out and told him how she would help him financially. She even stated that they had to "behave" while I was home. This conversation happened just hours after her pledge that I was the only one for her. I confronted her. She started to fall back on him being her friends boyfriend but I just straight out asked her if he was going to sleep with her when he got to town. She finally admitted to it and I went ballistic, I screamed some pretty awful things at her. Told her she was bad mom, that she didn't deserve her kids because she didn't do anything but sex chat with guys all day and avoided taking care of her responsibilities. I felt awful saying that and left and came back after cooling down. She stated things were over and asked me to to just go ahead and leave. I did but now she is stating there might be a chance that things can be fixed with counseling while we are separated. I asked he if she is still in contact with this guy and she says that he stopped talking to her but is not sure why. She says it was all a mistake and a cry for attention but I can't help but think she is putting me on. I check on her everyday and she says she understands why but is upset that I am keeping tabs on her. 

I am out of my mind with worry that I am being lied to half the time but everytime she explains what she was doing in detail I end up believing her. I feel like I am going crazy. I feel like my verbal and emotional abuse pushed her here and and I deserve this despite seeking counseling. I want to believe it's a mistake and we can fix this. What should I do? Just leave her alone and see what happens? Fight for our marriage? Seek a divorce? I am torn.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Fight for your marriage?

I don't want to sound unduly harsh, but I don't think you have a marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Fight for your marriage?
> 
> I don't want to sound unduly harsh, but I don't think you have a marriage.


:iagree:

She has repeatedly started EAs. Each has, from what I have read, progressed to PAs. When those fall through, she calls you back. You are her back up. She really shows no remorse for her actions, including planning to hook up with someone she claims is her friend's boyfriend! BTW, I don't buy that. But she was planning to have him come into town and have sex with him.

But, if you REALLY want to fix the marriage, to stay married to her... get rid of the games. WoW is a big breeding ground for EA. I know this from my own experience. Get rid of the temptation, make sure she is transparent, and STAYS transparent. And get rid of vent or skype or whatever she is using to talk to these men. 

Unfortunately, I don't see that the marriage can be salvaged. She has lied repeatedly. She isn't remorseful. She is only sorry she was caught. And even after being caught, she continued to lie until she realized you wouldn't back down. Ultimately, it is your choice. But I just don't see it being fixed.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

While I agreed that might have come off as a bit harsh. I understand your opinion. The thing is we have never really sought counseling in any form until a few months ago. I am just wondering if doing so long ago could have prevented these things and if doing so now is too late. We have both agreed that we need to let our relationship cool off while we continue seeing the therapist. We just take the kids places together and chat on messenger, etc. We don't have another counseling session for almost another month and the idea of waiting that long while I am constantly stressed out about what to so is killing me.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Well, if she still wants to try to fix the marriage, she really needs to get rid of that temptation. As long as that is there, she will have that option "just in case".


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't have a marriage. You have a woman who you are legal bound to at the moment who is a liar and a serial cheater.

hell, she's got you raising another man's kid.

Wow, you have been played continously by her over and over. Are any of your kids actually yours? I think you need to get them DNA tested because seriously, she is a unrepentant cheater.

She moves you out and moves in other guys. When they don't work out she lets you come home until she lines up the next sucker.

Do you have any selfrespect? Any?


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

I completely agree about removing WoW from her life, Maricha75. She says that she has stopped playing and I verified that it has been a few days since she has, which is admittedly a big step as she used to log in several times a day (it was about a week ago that I discovered the EA). She does have many online friends that I have no worries about and I chat with her on messenger, etc. from my phone so I don't know if asking her to delete these programs would be fair. I have decided to reserve a lot of ultimatums until we have talked to our therapist at least once together.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Michael, I think you should move on with some individual counseling while you wait for the next MC session. It cannot possibly hurt, and you have a lot of issues to sort through -- whether or not you guys stay together. Good luck!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Michael1980 said:


> While I agreed that might have come off as a bit harsh. I understand your opinion. The thing is we have never really sought counseling in any form until a few months ago. I am just wondering if doing so long ago could have prevented these things and if doing so now is too late. We have both agreed that we need to let our relationship cool off while we continue seeing the therapist. We just take the kids places together and chat on messenger, etc. We don't have another counseling session for almost another month and the idea of waiting that long while I am constantly stressed out about what to so is killing me.


I don't think that counseling can work while she is still having affairs. Counseling helps people work on what they want to be better, it doesn't guilt them into fixing their morals. You wife has had man after man in her life since being married to you. She has no problem looking you in the eye and telling you that she's being faithful, while she's carrying another man's kid and having him live under your root, while you are sent away.

She doesn't see what she is doing as wrong. She also clearly has ZERO respect for you as person or as a man.

I'm not trying to be nasty here - but you've got to see the situation for what it really is.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry you're here,but I really don't see from your OP that there is really much of a marriage left to save.It seems like she only uses you to fill in the times between her various EA/PA's.Maybe its time you put divorce firmly on the table and file.That might shake her tree if she's faced with the prospect that you'll be gone for good,but I wouldn't count on it.Take care.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

Shaggy, all of my kids are actually mine. Even our youngest, the result of the previous relationship is "mine". I took responsibility for him and have no regrets for doing so. The other two look exactly like me at their age so their is no dispute there. 

Maybe, it is my lack of self respect but these previous relationships I never considered cheating as our relationship was "over". I had a few relationships during these separations so I can't fault her for that. She has had made some big mistakes, yes, but this EA last week was the first time it has happened while we were actively trying to work on things. I have never uncovered any information that any previous relationship was started while we were together.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> You don't have a marriage. You have a woman who you are legal bound to at the moment who is a liar and a serial cheater.
> 
> hell, she's got you raising another man's kid.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Counseling with her won't get you anywhere. She'll say what you want her to, it'll end, and you'll be right back where you started.

Until she gives you some indication that you are more to her than her back up plan, don't bother. Until you are ready to stand up for yourself, don't bother.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

That's the thing. She claims the EA is over and is sorry and it was a mistake. I would be in attorney's office if I had any indication that she was not telling the truth. I admit I have my suspicions but I feel like I need to recognize that it may all be in my head. 

I do aim to seek individual counseling despite the outcome of this. I admit that my anger was a large contributing factor to our problems and need to work on that no matter what. Our therapist just called about an opening on Monday, so the worry of having to wait a month is no longer there. Thank God!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

"She claims". She can claim whatever she wants, but until she is willing - no, until she OFFERS - to prove it to you, she's hiding things and probably still at it. It's up to her to prove to you she is worthy of you being with her.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

What kind of indication should I be looking for? We have agreed not to resort back to our past ways of sleeping together and then moving back in for financial security until there is a visible change in our relationship. 

I apologize if I seem stubborn. I just really want this to work and feel like I have never really done this the right way. I am completely clueless as to what to do or to look for if R is possible.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Michael1980 said:


> Shaggy, all of my kids are actually mine. Even our youngest, the result of the previous relationship is "mine". I took responsibility for him and have no regrets for doing so. The other two look exactly like me at their age so their is no dispute there.
> 
> Maybe, it is my lack of self respect but these previous relationships I never considered cheating as our relationship was "over". I had a few relationships during these separations so I can't fault her for that. She has had made some big mistakes, yes, but this EA last week was the first time it has happened while we were actively trying to work on things. I have never uncovered any information that any previous relationship was started while we were together.


You may be their parent, but look how your life with your wife has turned out. Separations, her moving another man into your home and lying to you even when pregnant with his child.

Have you wondered that this is teaching your children about faithfulness and relationships? It's teaching them they are negotiable, that fidelity, trust, and integrity are options - not requirements.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Michael1980 said:


> She has had made some big mistakes, yes, but this EA last week was the first time it has happened while we were actively trying to work on things. I have never uncovered any information that any previous relationship was started while we were together.


Ok... so why did she have you move out the first time and then move the new guy in right away? I don't buy that ANY of her As weren't started when you were together. Ok, I see that you are determined to make it work with her. I wish you the best, no matter what you choose to do. But seriously, if she doesn't show remorse for betraying you, there is no fixing it. Right now, from what you have shared, her only remorse is due to having been caught. 

Oh, I'm just curious how you verified she hasn't logged onto WoW in days? It doesn't show in the WoW folder on the computer. Unless you mentioned having a keylogger previously and I missed it?


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You have a marriage? REALLY?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

BTW, as for the WoW subscription... she can EASILY pick up a one month card at the store, and basically treat it as a "pay as you go" thing instead of the auto subscription from the bank account. The only way to truly be sure she isn't playing it, on her computer anyway, is if it is completely removed. Even then, if she has other Blizzard games associated with her Battle.net account, she can easily continue her EAs with anyone on her Real ID friends list. AND, she likely put her EAs on that list so she wouldn't have to follow them from realm to realm if they wanted to play on different toons. My point is there are many ways around it... and just taking her at her word at this point would be ridiculous.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sorry, one more thing... if you aren't sure of any games that may be associated with Battle.net/Blizzard, I'd be happy to let you know.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

She was using an old account of mine as well and I can log into that and see when the last time she was online on her main account. I was also able to see that the OM has not logged since this affair was discovered. This is all from the dates RealID is showing. So even if they were communicating through another Blizzard game I would be able to see.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You really need to drop a keylogger on that PC. Given the history here, I bet they've gone underground.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ahh, but she has/had access to YOUR account, right? And what if HE has multiple accounts not linked to that B-net? See where I am going here? PLUS, Blizz now has the option to have starter accounts "forever" and they are not linked to B-net. Easy to go underground that way if they so choose... As Shaggy said, keylogger, pronto.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

I discovered the EA with a keylogger but it was removed. Since we are separated again, I don't know how to feasibly reinstall the keylogger.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Michael1980 said:


> What kind of indication should I be looking for? We have agreed not to resort back to our past ways of sleeping together and then moving back in for financial security until there is a visible change in our relationship.
> 
> I apologize if I seem stubborn. I just really want this to work and feel like I have never really done this the right way. I am completely clueless as to what to do or to look for if R is possible.


There are a ton of links in this section - have a look around, especially at this one 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife keeps offering to support these guys financially. Is she that well off by herself, or is she using your money?

I think it must the later since folks who have hours to play WoW, don't also tend to have successful careers with big paychecks.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

Well, when I am not living there I have my kids half the time. I still provide her with a moderate amount of support but she relies very heavily on her family during these times.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Does she go to therapy? I find it very odd she is attracted to guys she has to support or offer to support. These guys are loosers and leaches.


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## Michael1980 (May 7, 2012)

She started a few months ago at my behest. She was referred to a psychologist for anxiety, depression and OCD. She had been taking medication for a few weeks as well. I am also going as I tend to be overly critical and don't think that was helping with her anxiety issues. We see the same therapist for MC.


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