# I was caught in an emotional affair



## peachesncream

Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week. 
This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state. 
Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time. He won’t forgive me. I am sorry and wish I wouldn’t t have made this mistake

I feel so broken. One minute he says he wants to go to counseling and the next he is exploding in anger. But now he consistently says he can’t forgive me and will never look at me the same. I guess I have to accept that. I feel like we could work out the issues if we could look at the overall picture and what led to the breakdown of our marriage. Not sure what to do. He is already working on moving his tools and other big items out.


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## Andy1001

peachesncream said:


> Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week.
> This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state.
> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time. He won’t forgive me. I am sorry and wish I wouldn’t t have made this mistake
> 
> I feel so broken. One minute he says he wants to go to counseling and the next he is exploding in anger. But now he consistently says he can’t forgive me and will never look at me the same. I guess I have to accept that. I feel like we could work out the issues if we could look at the overall picture and what led to the breakdown of our marriage. Not sure what to do. He is already working on moving his tools and other big items out.


Maybe if you accepted one hundred percent that your cheating was down to you instead of rewriting history to justify it, your husband might be willing to try reconciliation. 
As it is you’re trying to blame him for you cheating, and he knows if you hadn’t been caught you would still be at it. 
You say you feel broken but you haven’t given any thought to how your husband feels. It’s all about you. 
If you can’t see this then please let the poor man go, he can then find a woman who can be faithful.


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## peachesncream

I have accepted responsibility. I am trying.


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## Music_Man

Sorry you are here, but you must respect his mindset right now. His whole world has been shattered and he's handling it as best he can. You've got to give him time. 

For you- do NOT blame him in ANY way for your affair. You both are responsible for the problems in your marriage but only you are responsible for the affair. 

Have you cut off all contact with the OM? Does your H know him or know who he is? Your H is going to need full disclosure from you and will need full reassurance that this thing is over and done if there is going to be any chance for forgiveness and reconciliation.


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## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> I have accepted responsibility. I am trying.


Then, you know you! Must do the heavy lifting start with this get it now!

Not Just Friends: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity
Book by Jean Coppock Staeheli and Shirley Glass


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## Tilted 1

And you say your sorry, what have you done up to this point? No excuses how long has this been going on? Does your husband know who it is ? Have you STOPPED contact with him


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## peachesncream

Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.

I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do. 

Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage. I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible? 

He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t. 

We got married when I was 17 years old. Have been married 18 years. Weve had a lot of ups and downs, this is definitely the worse.


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## .339971

At this point, there isn't much you can do. His trust in you has been broken, and that's hard if not impossible to win back in any relationship. Even if you did reconcile, it wouldn't ever be the same.


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## Tilted 1

But your right, about one thing you said. He will never look at you or your marriage the same again. If you wanted that you would be asking him to rugsweep the affair.. yes that right an affair.


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## EveningThoughts

You say your marriage has been cold for a couple of years.

You also say the affair is about 2.5 years.

Did the affair cause you to withdraw from your husband first, and show him less attention, whilst your thoughts were on someone else?


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## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.
> 
> I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.
> 
> Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage. I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible?
> 
> He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t.
> 
> We got married when I was 17 years old. Have been married 18 years. Weve had a lot of ups and downs, this is definitely the worse.


2.5 years that's a long time to give someone your love. Yes you better accept the complete and total blame, possibly ruined the marriage.

This just isn't the worse, it's equivalent would be scorched Earth for your husband. This is the result of infidilty.

And it was your one of husband's friends, l just don't know. Think for a second what if your husband did this to you? Could sorry be enough for you, it's a character flaw you carry.

I won't sugar coat your deed. It is to some worse than a physical affair, because you gave the other man, your love and dreams. Broken promises and vows.


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## RebuildingMe

If you think what you did was just a “mistake”, you have a long way to go. Read how to help your spouse heal and not just friends. It may not have been physical, but that doesn’t lessen the hurt and betrayal he feels.


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## RebuildingMe

“Married at 17” says all I need to know about how this would end up.


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## The Middleman

peachesncream said:


> I have accepted responsibility. I am trying.


No you haven’t. You said “ Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time.” That is blame shifting, so you are still not owning it. You are going to have to live with his anger for a long while yet and you’re going to have to find a way to make it up to him.


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## Tilted 1

PNC, this is my signature. Think about it and reflect. 

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.


If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.

It real and truthful. Don't you agree?


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## Oldtimer

These are your words from a long ago post.

*“Yes I too am against opposite sex friendships in my marriage and frankly won't tolerate anything other than co worker type contact at work.*

It is really a bummer I truly cared about this friend-stupidly obviously. My mind has been wondering today if he did anything to make theses advances seem like it would be an ok thing to do. *I don't really understand how a woman would go out of their way to flirt unless they saw an opening. But then again I don't understand how you would flirt with a friend's husband because it is not something I would be ok with morally. *

All of this makes me want to swear off any woman remotely in my age range. I have way many other things to worry about”.


I read your previous threads and the above is a quote from your post in 2015. You stated that you were against opposite sex friendships. Do I take it that the OM in your EA was not a friend?

You also stated that “ I don’t really understand how a woman would go out of their way to flirt unless they saw an opening “. who started flirting first and did you see an opening?

You also speak of morals, what happened to yours since 2015? 

You spoke in another thread about your husbands ED, did lack of sex bring you to the point of searching out kibbles?

IMO, it seems that those morals you spouted about have gone for a crap and now, you come rewriting your marriage history. 

You were aware of the ED issues and the question begs, what have you done to help your husband with this? 

By the way, this is not a mistake, it was most likely a premeditated continuous decision on your part to cheat.

I would suggest you work on yourself especially in regards to your self esteem. If you get off on kibbles particularly, as you stated previously your husband loved you as you were with the tiger stripes you earned in becoming a mother to your 4 kids.

Start IC to see where your moral compass failed, to work with your esteem issues. As well to determine what you can do to help him.

Remember, you, even in an EA have emasculated your husband. If he suffers from ED, you have just kicked him even harder where it hurts especially since it’s been an LTA.

I do wish you luck and hopefully notwithstanding an actual PA that you both can heal and get passed this. 

In closing, remember that these words are just my opinion. 

OT


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## TJW

peachesncream said:


> I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.


You can get rid of any statements which, in any way, even the slightest of ways, blame someone else for your affair. When you completely alter all of your neural networks toward: 



peachesncream said:


> I need to accept that I ruined my marriage.


I cannot say whether you have permanently ruined your marriage. There have been people who reconciled and had good marriages again.

"Never" is a long time. I'm sure your husband is being truthful, it is what he thinks, that he will "never" recover. And, many of us never do.
I'm one of them who never did.

But, I'll tell you honestly, I think I could have recovered, in time, if my wife had "owned" her choices, her actions, and not blamed them on me, my anatomy, my inexperience, my failing health, etc....and placed the blame squarely upon her own concupiscence, her own sinful and selfish desires, her own lack of self-control, there could have possibly been a reconciliation and a restored marriage.

I cannot say whether this is the case for you. Success is not guaranteed, But, I think that continuing to blame your husband for it will guarantee failure.

Your affair is not the result of a failed marriage. It was your CHOICE to do this. It could have been your choice to fix your contribution to your failed marriage. That can still be your choice.


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## Openminded

Your husband may change his mind. Or he may not. You need to focus on a plan for life without him because that's potentially what you're facing.


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## peachesncream

Thank you to those of you with helpful suggestions. I don’t know what happened to me to make me do this and anything I say to try to logically understand it will be seen as me shifting blame.


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## RebuildingMe

peachesncream said:


> Thank you to those of you with helpful suggestions. I don’t know what happened to me to make me do this and anything I say to try to logically understand it will be seen as me shifting blame.


To logically understand it, you have to look at yourself first, not the state of the marriage. That is why what you say appears to be blame shifting.


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## Lostinthought61

You should start by going to counseling yourself regardless if he comes...is the other man married? If so does his spouse know?


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## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> Thank you to those of you with helpful suggestions. I don’t know what happened to me to make me do this and anything I say to try to logically understand it will be seen as me shifting blame.


Yes, logic goes out. When love is concerned. And as a man l know how your husband is feeling. Betrayed, unloved, casted aside, lonely, abandoned, unloved, hurt, lied too, deceived for a term of your marriage, crushed. And feeling quite disposable, and despaired, to name a few . I say this to give you some context to have empathy for him. And not yourself.


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## Tilted 1

Yeah, it kinda shakes one to the core, 

You should also get the 5 Love languages..... This way you can start to love your man his way not your way.... And he if he is able to return if possible. Regardless this way you can learn better communications to say the very least.


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## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.
> 
> I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.
> 
> Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage. I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible?
> 
> He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t.
> 
> We got married when I was 17 years old. Have been married 18 years. Weve had a lot of ups and downs, this is definitely the worse.


2.5 years?

It’s over. Give him an easy divorce. That’s not a mistake, that’s a lifestyle.


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## phillybeffandswiss

peachesncream said:


> Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week.
> This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state.
> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years.





peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years.


Interesting. I will tell you this, my wife’s texting wasn’t even sexual it was the context, tone and cooling of our relationship that made me almost divorce her and put her out. 

Even if there was zero contact, the context and comments can be so terrible he can’t unsee or may not believe you never met.

Here’s the the thing you may not understand, many times it is never addressed, he may be been wondering what he was doing wrong for years.
You say colder, in my relationship I was being introspective. 

What was I doing wrong?
Why weren’t the corrections being reciprocated?
Do I need counseling?

The list goes on and on.
At a certain point you stop trying to guess and look for outside reasons. If they are found, like an EA or PA, your emotions run the gamut. Literally, you can suggest reconciliation and 30 minutes later want to burn all of their things and throw them and your spouse onto the street.

No, I am not assessing blame, he could be an ogre for all I know. Just saying, sometimes the effort is not worth the cost. That is probably what he is wrestling with right now.


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## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Thank you to those of you with helpful suggestions. I don’t know what happened to me to make me do this and anything I say to try to logically understand it will be seen as me shifting blame.


You made you do this. Not something done to you. Not a part if you that isn’t you. 

Just you. 

Ask yourself why you’re only upset now that you got caught, and have only stopped now that he knows. 

This is false remorse. It’s pain from being caught, not from regretting what your actions. You’d still be cheating right now if you hadn’t got caught. 

This wasn’t an emotional affair. Sounds like it was highly sexual. It was just an affair that you didn’t get around to physically enacting. Again, you’re just trying to spin it here. 

Please get a good therapist - one you trust but one that’s willing to hold your feet to the fire. And a good divorce mediator or lawyer. 

Probably in that order.


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## Tilted 1

You would have to write out a time line of your affair, from the start, then your husband will have to do certain things to prove your not lying. Because if you did lie, you were not really sincere nor upfront can you do theses things?

Added: this means every text you sent back and forth? It kinda puts you out there but anything less your just trying to minimize your affair.


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## sunsetmist

peachesncream said:


> Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week.
> This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state.
> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time. He won’t forgive me. I am sorry and wish I wouldn’t t have made this mistake
> 
> I feel so broken. One minute he says he wants to go to counseling and the next he is exploding in anger. But now he consistently says he can’t forgive me and will never look at me the same. I guess I have to accept that. I feel like we could work out the issues if we could look at the overall picture and what led to the breakdown of our marriage. Not sure what to do. He is already working on moving his tools and other big items out.


I was *CAUGHT* in an Emotional affair---would have continued if not caught...go NC with your AP.

I *haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time>*...this on your mind since 2015 or before...

I wish I hadn't made this *mistake* It was your choice..

He consistently says *he can't forgive me and will never look at me the same*. This is true--people here still grieve 40 years later. You are NOT the same in his eyes, so do not pretend to be.

You want him to look at the overall picture--your grievances against him......Divorce if you want out of a marriage do not cheat.

I was 17 when we married translates as I was young, wanted more experiences, to feel more intimacy and attention so I sought it outside of marriage. We see this all too often.

So, IMO, I have summarized the most damaging thoughts/actions. Why do you want to be with him now? He was not enough before? Love and TRUST have been destroyed. Your infidelity has revealed a shallow person and your lack of understanding of the standards of marriage.

I'd suggest you work on yourself in IC to develop character and depth. Convert the I, I, I needs into we, we, we and maybe even the needs of others, and YOU may become a happier, more substantial person.

I am trying to help, not ignore your concerns.


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## niceguy47460

I really don't understand it . In 2015 you was worried about him cheating then after that you was worried about having sex with him every day. But then you turned around and cheated on him . Wow


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## sunsetmist

He has always been loving, respectful and has never given me a reason to suspect him of any wrongdoing --PandC--2015.

Is the 'toxic wench' still waiting for you to betray him? How old was he when y'all married? 

What you do now is likely to determine the state of the rest of your life. Be wise--four children deserve the best.


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## TAMAT

Peaches,

Did you...

Offer to take a polygraph

Offer to DNA the kids

Offer to sign a post nuptial

Get STD tested

Write out a timeline for the affair

Confess, apologize and send proof to the OMW or SO


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## Graywolf2

peachesncream said:


> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time.


Wayward spouses often do this to rationalize their affair. They deserve some happiness because their spouse is so bad. They start believing their own spin and treat their spouse badly. This behavior is often the first sign the betrayed spouse has that there is an affair.

It’s hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did a bad marriage cause the affair or did an affair cause a bad marriage. Once this process begins it’s a downward spiral. If the betrayed spouse (BS) does something nice the wayward spouse (WS) feels guilty. If the BS is a jerk the WS loves it because it confirms their thinking.

They will make stuff up or take a real event and blow it out of proportion. I know of a wayward wife that mentioned that she was working in the front yard a decade ago and her husband drove by without waving at her.


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## Casual Observer

TAMAT said:


> Peaches,
> 
> Did you...
> 
> Offer to take a polygraph
> 
> Offer to DNA the kids
> 
> Offer to sign a post nuptial
> 
> Get STD tested
> 
> Write out a timeline for the affair
> 
> Confess, apologize and send proof to the OMW or SO


I like this. It's pretty complete and doesn't leave much left to the imagination. She's really got to completely throw herself under the bus come up with a plan for restoring trust. Most importantly, and about the only thing left off here, is that her actions (to restore trust) have to be unilateral. She cannot tie it into him doing his part to improve the relationship. It's entirely upon her.


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## OutofRetirement

Who was the guy?

Two and a half years? Why not go to meet him? He was out of state? What, is there some kind of border wall that keeps you from traveling for a guy you love? Or him coming to see you?

In any event, it seemed that you were very, very unhappy because of how your husband made you feel ignored and unloved. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise, you get to move on and meet someone who can make you happy.


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## [email protected]

Peaches, if it was just last week, your BH is still reeling from the shock. It's way too early to worry about what he's going to do. He really doesn't know yet. He'll be all over that place with emotion, anger, sorrow, and so forth. Transparency, timeline, complete truthfulness nor matter how it hurts are some of the things you need to do. Let him know you'll accept a 180. And for heaven's sake, assure him that he has done nothing wrong, that the whole thing is 100% your fault.


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## Tilted 1

And if you follow Icelander advice, for God's sake do not contact the other man. If you do end your marriage, you not going to want to do anything to save YOUR marriage.


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## Marc878

At this time you can only control yourself and your actions.

Let go of the outcome.


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## stillthinking

> “ Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time.”


You are not happy in your marriage, fine. But instead of just getting a divorce you wanted to have your cake and eat it too.

You wanted an escape. And fate, it would seem, has given it to you.

You got caught, and he is done.

You are now free to find someone who will meet all you needs. 

And you husband is free to find a new partner also.


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## ABHale

The time that you should have worked on the marriage was before you cheated. 

Very had to fix things afterwards. This is up to your husband, if he doesn’t want to fix this there is nothing you can do.


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## SunnyT

Ya know....besides being heart-broken, deceived, betrayed, and whatever other emotions he is entitled to, there is another facet that might be the most hurtful. See, even any and all "good times', family moments, couple moments, love making, special jokes, inside secrets....ALL of that is marred. ALL of that is like "none of that mattered". So besides messing up and marring a disappointing relationship, you've marred ALL the good times, or what he thought were good things about the marriage. So it really, really does become "this is not a marriage", "there is nothing to save". Nothing you've said matters. You can't say "well, the good times were nice" "We had good times, didn't we?" Those don't matter now, because during supposed "good times" you were deceptive. Even your "I love you's" are moot. They don't count. Because your actions have shown that you really don't. Or you don't know what love is. 

You have to let him go. Especially if you love him. You have to figure out how to have the most positive family for your children under the circumstances. You have to figure out how to make amends to YOURSELF. You have to move on, and be a decent mother, a decent ex-wife, and a decent person. You can't fix this.


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## peachesncream

I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


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## The Middleman

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


While what you did is pretty awful, you didn’t cross the Physical Line, which I consider the point of no return. Perhaps with hard work on your side, owning what you did, and doing what is necessary to change his mind and give him peace, he will reconsider in time. He needs to get the anger out of his system and maybe even “a pound of flesh.” Maybe I’m wrong, but I think you have some hope, it’s just not going to be pretty.

Whatever you do, stop with the “Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time“ bull****. No one wants to hear it, especially him.


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## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


Right now it's much more important that you learn why you did what you did and a more healthier way to deal with your unhappiness then you "forgive" yourself. Fix your issues first. Earn the forgiveness. 

Also, when you DO really have figured it out you will know because you will care more about ruining your husband's life then your own. 

When you get married you should no longer be the center of your own universe. If you are your doing it wrong. This was your first mistake, in marriage have a responsibility to protect your spouse even from the worst of yourself. 

Imagine you put the effort into your husband that you put into your phone/text boyfriend. Your life may have been in a different place. 

All of this is probably tough for you to read but you need to embrace it because this is the kind of attitude necessary going forward to have a healthy life.

Besides this what happened to your phone/text boyfriend? Do you intend to meet him if your marriage ends? Maybe you should, that will probably the best thing to break the allusion or should I say delusion you were living under. 

Do you have kids? If so do they know? 

Did anyone else know about your affair?


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## oldtruck

was there sexting with the OM?


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## MattMatt

peachesncream said:


> Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week.
> This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state.
> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time. He won’t forgive me. I am sorry and wish I wouldn’t t have made this mistake
> 
> I feel so broken. One minute he says he wants to go to counseling and the next he is exploding in anger. But now he consistently says he can’t forgive me and will never look at me the same. I guess I have to accept that. I feel like we could work out the issues if we could look at the overall picture and what led to the breakdown of our marriage. Not sure what to do. He is already working on moving his tools and other big items out.


Are you sorry?

If so, are you sorry you did it?

Or sorry you got caught?


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## honcho

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


He's just learned this and he's devastated. It's still to fresh and new for him, his anger and emotions are in control right now. Nothing can get fixed in a week and you can't rush him. It's a very long road to recovery if it can be recovered. You've got to give him time.


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## Casual Observer

honcho said:


> He's just learned this and he's devastated. It's still to fresh and new for him, his anger and emotions are in control right now. Nothing can get fixed in a week and you can't rush him. It's a very long road to recovery if it can be recovered. You've got to give him time.


Agreed. It's way too early to write everything off. He needs time to think, and it's really important that he doesn't feel like he's being told that what he's thinking is wrong. He has to come to that realization himself, if he can.


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## Hopeful Cynic

You're taking a very passive approach to this, right down to your thread title.

"I was caught in an emotional affair." Which is more important, the being caught, or the having it in the first place? As long as you think being caught is the problem, you're a terrible person. Who wants to be married to a terrible person?



peachesncream said:


> Long story short my husband found very explicit messages on my phone last week.
> This has been an ongoing long term emotional affair with someone out of state.


Again with the passive talk, as though the being caught is the bad part. Reframe "my husband found" as "I was sending explicit messages" and "this has been" to "I was having."



peachesncream said:


> Our marriage has steadily been getting colder the last few years. I haven't felt desired or really wanted in a long time.


"I let our marriage get cold the last few years, and didn't do anything about it."



peachesncream said:


> He won’t forgive me. I am sorry and wish I wouldn’t t have made this mistake.


It wasn't a mistake. A mistake is "oops, I locked my keys in the car. I better be more careful in the future." What you did is called a deliberate choice, and you made that choice over and over and over again, with every explicit message you sent and encouraged.



peachesncream said:


> I feel so broken. One minute he says he wants to go to counseling and the next he is exploding in anger. But now he consistently says he can’t forgive me and will never look at me the same. I guess I have to accept that.


You just ripped his life apart. Don't expect stability from him. And you have no right to forgiveness. 



peachesncream said:


> I feel like we could work out the issues if we could look at the overall picture and what led to the breakdown of our marriage. Not sure what to do. He is already working on moving his tools and other big items out.


You can't install the smoke detectors after you've set fire to the house.



peachesncream said:


> I have accepted responsibility. I am trying.


Have you? Refer up to the beginning of the thread where you are being so passive about what you did. That tells me more about you lacking in responsibility.



peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.
> 
> I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.


You are offering to go to counselling as a tactic to keep your husband. Not because you believe you need it, or you'd be there already.



peachesncream said:


> Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage.


Oh yes it is. You might be able to forge a new marriage, if he's willing, but the old one is gone.



peachesncream said:


> I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible?


Only if you do the hard work to change who you are, and he is willing to trust again.



peachesncream said:


> He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t.


Doesn't sound like he is willing to trust again.



peachesncream said:


> Thank you to those of you with helpful suggestions. I don’t know what happened to me to make me do this and anything I say to try to logically understand it will be seen as me shifting blame.


Your job then, is to figure out what happened to you. Nothing 'made you' do this. You chose it. Figure that out and change it, or you'll never have a successful marriage to anyone.



peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now.


Pleading never works. For anything.

Trying everything you've ever read won't work either, if you don't give the right solution time.

It also depends on your husband though. You could have an epiphany and it won't change that HE feels he can never trust you again and doesn't want to be married to someone he can't trust.



peachesncream said:


> I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


Ever stop to think you ruined your husband's life? Looks like you still don't think about anybody but yourself.

Yes, it was stupid. Your job is to figure out why you didn't think it was stupid before you began, and every day of the last few years.


----------



## Robert22205

Check your private message box.


----------



## The Middleman

@Hopeful Cynic
One of the best analyses I’ve read.


----------



## Decorum

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


One of the most important preparations to seeking forgiveness is empathy for the pain you have caused. True empathy enables one to speak to the other persons heart.

You have spent the last 2.5 years justifying your infidelity, assuaging your guilt with entitlement, and hardening your heart to your husband emotionally. 

All you lack is true remorsefulness. 

Something that always seems to evade someone compartmentalized in their selfishness. 

Maybe you can get some help for this.


----------



## frusdil

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


You have to give your husband time, he's only just found out about this. You've known for 2.5 years. Give him a chance to get his head around it. 

You say you are sorry - is that sorry you did it, or sorry you got caught? Would this still be going on if your husband hadn't caught you?

You and your husband are both responsible for the state of your marriage, but your affair (an EA is still an affair) is 100% on you and you alone. You need to understand that this is far more than a betrayal of trust, you have betrayed your husband as a man, played him for a fool, emasculated him, hurt him in the most horrendous, painful way someone can hurt another human. He may or may not come back from that. I know I couldn't.

You have to let go of the outcome here, you have no control over that, the ball is now 100% in your husbands court. You reap what you sow.


----------



## TJW

peachesncream said:


> I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


The idea that we can "forgive ourselves" is very faulty, and many people go through their lives trying to do something which is impossible.

The fact is, we have NO AUTHORITY to "forgive" ourselves. The authority to forgive is completely and totally owned by God. If you want to be forgiven, you must go to God for it. You must surrender the controls of your life to Him. "Forgive myself' makes you your own "god".

You have done this, ruined your life, because you set yourself up as "god" of your life. You acted in obedience to "god". Acting in obedience to God would have disallowed any extramarital affairs, and protected your life. If you do not give the "throne" back to God, to whom it rightfully belongs, you will ruin your life again in the future. And, it will again be over something "stupid".... choose more wisely because of your experience. Go to God...... your life will be right again.... it may, or may not, restore your marriage, but you can overcome the "ruined".....

The other fact is, that humans, including your husband, cannot forgive unless that forgiveness is "driven" by a relationship with God. Without God's help, none of us ever forgive others. Your husband will have to get "there".....and that will take time.


----------



## TJW

frusdil said:


> He may or may not come back from that. I know I couldn't.


I couldn't, and didn't. Not even yet, and it has been 34 years. I have "forgiven", in the sense that I do not lie awake at night ruminating about it, as I once did, and I do not wish anything bad to happen to her (she has now been dead for 29 years) - but I never, ever, looked at her the same. I came to a point where I no longer wanted any relationship to her.


----------



## Spicy

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


I just don’t think you have anything left to salvage. How sad.


----------



## [email protected]

Peaches, again it's way too early to pronounce final judgement on anything. Remember, it'll take your BH 2-5 years before he's right again, and it may take longer. He's lashing out right now. He has been humiliated and emasculated, but eventually he may recover.


----------



## Music_Man

Most others have touched on this, but take it from someone who was (still is) squarely in your H's shoes: it's too soon to call this either way, but you have to do the heavy lifting here. 

When I found out, I left home. I went no contact on my W. I had to sort out so many things...so many feelings, unbelievable pain. A few things that your H is likely sorting through:

1. Is there anything worth salvaging here?

2. Do I have the full truth?

3. How could I have let this happen? (You must reassure him that this is not his fault)

4. In what ways am I lacking as a man that would she would feel the need to give of herself to another in this manner? 

5. How could she betray me this deeply?

6. Can we recover and start anew, or is this dead and gone for good?

7. How will I trust her again?

And on and on. You have to give him time and space, and you must find out some things about yourself. Get yourself into IC immediately. If they are worth their credentials, they'll help you focus on sorting you out. You can't help your H until you come to terms with the real truth of why this happened (you wanted it), and until you find true empathy for your H and the devastating pain he's going through.


----------



## StillSearching

She won't get the message until he files...
As a WW there's only one option for him...


----------



## TDSC60

Was there an exchange of pictures with OM?
How did you "meet" him?


----------



## Music_Man

TDSC60 said:


> Was there an exchange of pictures with OM?
> 
> How did you "meet" him?


I have these questions as well. How did it become a long distance EA? Someone you met online, or someone from your past?

Also- pictures ramps this thing up several notches. Hopefully you weren't this reckless.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.
> 
> I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.
> 
> Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage. I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible?
> 
> He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t.
> 
> We got married when I was 17 years old. Have been married 18 years. Weve had a lot of ups and downs, this is definitely the worse.


Two years in any affair is not a mistake, it is a conscious, daily choice on purpose. Why didnt you end your marriage instead if you were so unhappy? I didnt read through the thread yet, but if he wants to end this, then give him that. You didnt respect your marriage but you can show him respect now, at the very least. You did this, own it, and bow out if that is what he wants. I am sorry you did this to yourself. Hard lesson learned, I hope, that bringing a third party into your marriage isnt the way to fix it.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Looks like OP has taken her story over to SI I presume for more ‘gentle’ feedback. Get the popcorn ready.


----------



## Marduk

You don’t need to forgive yourself. A few days ago when you were still sexting this guy, you were doing a pretty good job rationalizing why you were doing nothing wrong, I suspect. 

You’ve been here a while. You know what you need to do. And it starts with shutting down this pity party you keep trying to throw for yourself. 

You know why you did this ‘stupid’ thing. You did it because you wanted to. You were willing to risk your marriage for thrilling lines of text on a screen, so you did. 

You know why you allowed yourself to do it. Because you were willing to live a marriage without integrity - you were one person with this other guy and presented yourself as someone different to your husband so you could have both. And that was fine with you for 2.5 years. 30 months. 900 days. Each one a new lie with your husband. 

You need to talk to someone. That you trust but is going to be firm with you. You have some demons to face before you even think about jumping to forgiving yourself. 

Start with “I allowed myself to lie to my husband because:” and then end that sentence - but it can’t be about your husband or the other man. It has to be about yourself.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

peachesncream said:


> Its been going on off and on for 2.5 years. Yes he knows who it is. But he is outvof state and there has been no physical contact. Although there were very explicit messages.
> 
> I have cut off contact and begged for forgiveness. I know I am the one in the wrong I admit and accept it. I have offered to go to counseling. Not sure what else I possibly can do.
> 
> Idk if it’s to the point that I need to accept that I ruined my marriage. I just want to get the feelings back we had for each other years ago. Is it possible?
> 
> He says he will never look at me the same no matter what. He says other people can get over things like this but he can’t.
> 
> We got married when I was 17 years old. Have been married 18 years. Weve had a lot of ups and downs, this is definitely the worse.


Help me understand. 

Why would you spent time flirting on line, and send explicit text messages?


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> I guess you’re right. All my pleading and trying everything I’ve read about to fix it isn’t working. He says he can never love me again and I think he means it. I guess I have to learn how to forgive myself now. I can’t believe I’ve ruined my life over something so stupid.


If you attempt to take a look through the glass and see what your H sees it may be a bit clearer. His WW took 2.5 years of a conscientious choice to entertain OM sexually via texting and probably visual aids(?) The time spent on this activity should have served better attempting to work on the marriage. Your H is wondering way that did not occur. The texting probably went on while your H was present(seen that often enough). Trust has been completely destroyed. Your H has completely detached emotionally. That marks the end of the marriage.


You posted at SI. Left out a lot of information when posting here. You planned on meeting the OM. Your H knows this. This affair was not a mistake. Not remotely close. You then blame everyone but yourself. It is not a wonder your H is not interested in salvaging the marriage.


----------



## peachesncream

Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


Is this mindset working for you?

What are you getting out of it?


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


Looking for help, ideas and support while leaving out pertinent information is a road one should not take.

And your H, does he want you back? Is he receiving the trickle truth?


----------



## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


Is this directed at all of us or just one poster?

So I don't think it's bad your on SI you will get basically the same advice but in a nicer more empathetic package. If you begin to fully grasp the breath and depth of the aftermath of this you may feel differently then you do now and then you may want to return. And for your own soul I hope you do one day fully grasp it. That is important. 

I wouldn't presume to speak for all of us here but I think I can say that most of us on here do not think you are un-redeemable or that you can't go on to have a good and healthy life. In fact there are some brave WS who post on here and uses their experience for very positive impact. 

The thing is when this happens there as great trauma associated with it, for everyone involved. Even the WS if they are healthy enough to see it. Granted some are so emotionally stunted they may never get it. But I think even for most WS the fact that they have traumatized themselves may even be a surprise. This is probably partly where you are. Whatever you feel understand your husband feels much worse. 

You don't have to post here, you don't have to post anywhere, but make no mistake you are at a very very important crossroad in your life. Right now today and everyday going forward you are going to have to decide what kind of person you are going to be. And that is MUCH MORE important the how you feel. If you want to look back on your life with satisfaction and contentment then this moment right now is hopefully going to be the line where your life will be judged. This is a pretty bad line, you don't want worse that is for sure. 

If you want to live a life of honor, you must MUST do your best to fix the damage that you have done. You must try to render some sort of restitution to your husband. That doesn't mean stay together, that means empathy. Honesty. True remorse. Making changes in yourself so that you are safe and this never happens again. And I think one day getting a full understanding of what an evil act it is to betray the person you have ask for the right to be the steward of their emotional and physical being. (Yes that is what marriage is, and that is the breath of what I am talking about.) You as his wife held his future and his children's future in his hand and no matter what happens now that future is not going to be what it once could be. I don't say that to pick on you but to open your eyes to what this is. 

Remorse which encompasses what I have written in the paragraph above is the ONLY, ONLY (I can't emphasize this enough ONLY) path for you that leads to some sort of peace. 

Good luck.


----------



## peachesncream

Its kind of hard to put a 2.5 year relationship down completely in one post.


----------



## Music_Man

peachesncream said:


> Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


Perhaps you should open up, and give us the actual story then. 

Believe it or not, there are people here who genuinely want to help you. It's just that there is little tolerance for half-truths and folks that appear to have an agenda of simply wanting others to give a 'thumbs up' to their point of view. 

You're right- we don't know the story and we don't know you. So help us- give us something we can work with. We're only responding to what you've given thus far.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Its kind of hard to put a 2.5 year relationship down completely in one post.


Many things are hard. 

Especially the things worth anything.


----------



## peachesncream

I have had several helpful responses through private messages. I realize what a terrible thing Ive done. People here are name calling and being downright hateful. Clearly this is not a safe place for people who have made mistakes. Hopefully this thread is a warning for anyone else reading here that has been on my side of things.


----------



## EveningThoughts

Yes 2.5 years shows that you must have passed through the new energy stage, and had a strong attachment.

I imagine you went through feelings of guilt during those years, and maybe even tried to stop the online relationship at times. 

Had you already lost the connection with your husband before developing this online one?

Did you ever feel in love with your other partner, or was it more a fun friendship, with sexual elements?


----------



## peachesncream

No my post was to the people calling me a terrible, promiscuous person. I do realize that I’ve destroyed my husband. He is broken. I can see it. I am consumed with guilt and appreciate the advice that was given to me to try to make it right. 

I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> No my post was to the people calling me a terrible, promiscuous person. I do realize that I’ve destroyed my husband. He is broken. I can see it. I am consumed with guilt and appreciate the advice that was given to me to try to make it right.
> 
> I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


This sounds like you’re on a much better path. The only thing I’d offer is that your husband has already told you he’s done, so that’s what I would respect and assume going forward unless he wants to change that.

I do not think he’ll come around. While it not being physical is a big plus, it being 2.5 years long is a huge minus. I would not hope for this and I would be very mindful if your inner dialogue is telling you that he’ll come around. Maybe he will. Likely he won’t.

It isn’t easy to throw away 18 years of marriage. But that’s kind of what you did here. You went into this knowing that you were risking your marriage, and you lived that reality for 2.5 years knowing that, and you would still be doing it to this day if you hadn’t got caught.

Make it easy on him. He’s been traumatized by this. PTSD is a possibility.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

peachesncream said:


> I have had several helpful responses through private messages. I realize what a terrible thing Ive done. People here are name calling and being downright hateful. Clearly this is not a safe place for people who have made mistakes. Hopefully this thread is a warning for anyone else reading here that has been on my side of things.


I have never been cheated on and so I have no such bitterness in my relationship or my life. So please understand that what I say here is not the result of any triggering, nor is it borne of any desire to name call, or beat someone when they're down. 

The reason you are hearing what you're hearing here is because you are a classic case of the cheater's trifecta:
*1. Minimizing:* As long as you keep referring to a years' long affair as a "mistake," you are not fully owning your actions. This is not a mistake, but rather a deliberate action, done with forethought, and perpetuated despite knowing the wrongness of it. That is so far beyond "mistake" that your use of the word is a clear indication you're not where you need to be if you are honest about moving forward.
2. *Rationalizing/blame shifting: *when you start of by mentioning how your marriage was growing cold (something that you no doubt played a part in yourself... and chose to look elsewhere rather than to fix), that is the second indicator that you are not honest about accepting responsibility for your actions. 
*3. It's all about ME!: * This is the classic tell that tells all. You say "I can't believe I ruined MY life..." it's obvious you're still thinking about just you. You are the perpetrator and your husband is the victim. You have no moral claim to anybody's sympathy here. And so long as you keep that particular view, you'll never deserve, nor will you get any. Until your first thought is "I can't believe I ruined MY HUSBAND'S LIFE...." you can never hope to have even a chance at making anything better. Moreover, you're now lashing out as if you've been attacked when all you've received is hones... and accurate.... feedback which you continually try to sidestep 

Some (a few) cheaters have come to this site and received similar responses to what you are receiving (even more harsh in some cases) and they have been grateful and used the feedback to understand what they've done and how they need to change. They are understandably the minority, because truly facing what you've done is HARD. No way around it. But that's the only way to get past it. The ONLY way. The majority who, like you (so far at least), stick to their rationalization, minimization, and self-centeredness remain irretrievably lost.


----------



## peachesncream

EveningThoughts said:


> Yes 2.5 years shows that you must have passed through the new energy stage, and had a strong attachment.
> 
> I imagine you went through feelings of guilt during those years, and maybe even tried to stop the online relationship at times.
> 
> Had you already lost the connection with your husband before developing this online one?
> 
> Did you ever feel in love with your other partner, or was it more a fun friendship, with sexual elements?


Sorry I just figured out how to quote replies on my phone.
Yes, I felt very in love with AP and yes I tried many times to end it and even had a 1.5 year break. I am starting to see now that it was not real love. It was a fantasy world I created. My mom passed away and he contacted me and this is when it started again. The rest of what I say will probably get me attacked. But yes I know I used this as an escape from grief. My husband and I got a long fine but the intimacy had been gone before the relationship started. I am hopeful we can get it back with work.


----------



## RebuildingMe

I think it’s great that you started IC. It’s important to pick a therapist that won’t encourage rugsweeping and you can begin to work on your character flaws. I would also suggest “how to help you spouse heal”. It’s a very quick read.

In reading above I see two ‘reasons’ for your A. Your mom died and lack of affection in your M. These are excuses and blame shifting. That’s the stuff you need to work on. They are not reasons for your A. The real reasons lie deep within your character flaws and who you are as a person.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

peachesncream said:


> I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


This is all good, and I am glad to see you taking ownership... except YOU are the one who threw your marriage away. If he chooses to end it, just know that truth.


----------



## peachesncream

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had several helpful responses through private messages. I realize what a terrible thing Ive done. People here are name calling and being downright hateful. Clearly this is not a safe place for people who have made mistakes. Hopefully this thread is a warning for anyone else reading here that has been on my side of things.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never been cheated on and so I have no such bitterness in my relationship or my life. So please understand that what I say here is not the result of any triggering, nor is it borne of any desire to name call, or beat someone when they're down.
> 
> The reason you are hearing what you're hearing here is because you are a classic case of the cheater's trifecta:
> *1. Minimizing:* As long as you keep referring to a years' long affair as a "mistake," you are not fully owning your actions. This is not a mistake, but rather a deliberate action, done with forethought, and perpetuated despite knowing the wrongness of it. That is so far beyond "mistake" that your use of the word is a clear indication you're not where you need to be if you are honest about moving forward.
> 2. *Rationalizing/blame shifting: *when you start of by mentioning how your marriage was growing cold (something that you no doubt played a part in yourself... and chose to look elsewhere rather than to fix), that is the second indicator that you are not honest about accepting responsibility for your actions.
> *3. It's all about ME!: * This is the classic tell that tells all. You say "I can't believe I ruined MY life..." it's obvious you're still thinking about just you. You are the perpetrator and your husband is the victim. You have no moral claim to anybody's sympathy here. And so long as you keep that particular view, you'll never deserve, nor will you get any. Until your first thought is "I can't believe I ruined MY HUSBAND'S LIFE...." you can never hope to have even a chance at making anything better. Moreover, you're now lashing out as if you've been attacked when all you've received is hones... and accurate.... feedback which you continually try to sidestep
> 
> Some (a few) cheaters have come to this site and received similar responses to what you are receiving (even more harsh in some cases) and they have been grateful and used the feedback to understand what they've done and how they need to change. They are understandably the minority, because truly facing what you've done is HARD. No way around it. But that's the only way to get past it. The ONLY way. The majority who, like you (so far at least), stick to their rationalization, minimization, and self-centeredness remain irretrievably lost.
Click to expand...

That gives me a lot to think about. I am not fully processing what I’ve done yet. I do realize that.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Its kind of hard to put a 2.5 year relationship down completely in one post.


We want to help. The best way for that to happen is to have all information available. Your H has read these texts. Has read you were ready to go see OM. Pictures are involved. This is cutting him to the core as a result. This is all new to your H. The person he once thought was trustworthy has been found is not to be. He will need time to navigate this new found reality. 

I would suggest you offer up a time line, reasons you took this path, provide access to all your electronics, go NC while you H is present for the text to OM and IC. As far as MC, not the best time for that.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Sorry I just figured out how to quote replies on my phone.
> Yes, I felt very in love with AP and yes I tried many times to end it and even had a 1.5 year break. I am starting to see now that it was not real love. It was a fantasy world I created. My mom passed away and he contacted me and this is when it started again. The rest of what I say will probably get me attacked. But yes I know I used this as an escape from grief. My husband and I got a long fine but the intimacy had been gone before the relationship started. I am hopeful we can get it back with work.


This is all why you wanted the affair.

Focus instead on why you allowed the affair.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> No my post was to the people calling me a terrible, promiscuous person. I do realize that I’ve destroyed my husband. He is broken. I can see it. I am consumed with guilt and appreciate the advice that was given to me to try to make it right.
> 
> I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. *It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.*


Your H is thinking the same thing but...he is thinking how could you throw away 18 years of marriage. Accept that the bomb was dropped by your choice from 2.5 years ago.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Sorry I just figured out how to quote replies on my phone.
> Yes, I felt very in love with AP and yes I tried many times to end it and even had a 1.5 year break. I am starting to see now that it was not real love. It was a fantasy world I created. My mom passed away and he contacted me and this is when it started again. The rest of what I say will probably get me attacked. But yes I know I used this as an escape from grief. My husband and I got a long fine but the intimacy had been gone before the relationship started. I am hopeful we can get it back with work.


This amounts to blame shifting. The choice was yours to walk away from this individual and texting or work on your marriage. Did you approach your H about the lack of intimacy? Was your H permitted to make the changes you wanted to see?


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I just figured out how to quote replies on my phone.
> Yes, I felt very in love with AP and yes I tried many times to end it and even had a 1.5 year break. I am starting to see now that it was not real love. It was a fantasy world I created. My mom passed away and he contacted me and this is when it started again. The rest of what I say will probably get me attacked. But yes I know I used this as an escape from grief. My husband and I got a long fine but the intimacy had been gone before the relationship started. I am hopeful we can get it back with work.
> 
> 
> 
> This amounts to blame shifting. The choice was yours to walk away from this individual and texting or work on your marriage. Did you approach your H about the lack of intimacy? Was your H permitted to make the changes you wanted to see?
Click to expand...

Im not blame shifting. I was answering a question.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Im not blame shifting. I was answering a question.


My mom passed away(sorry for the loss). The reason for my affair. There was no intimacy in my marriage(should have discussed with my H so he could repair the problem). The reason I had an affair. You are blaming your choice to conduct an affair on these two items. You appear to believe you had no conscientious choice in the matter.

These are the things your H hears and registers.


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not blame shifting. I was answering a question.
> 
> 
> 
> My mom passed away(sorry for the loss). The reason for my affair. There was no intimacy in my marriage(should have discussed with my H so he could repair the problem). The reason I had an affair. You are blaming your choice to conduct an affair on these two items. You appear to believe you had no conscientious choice in the matter.
> 
> These are the things your H hears and registers.
Click to expand...

I gave a response to someone that asked me a pointed question about the state of my marriage before the affair.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> I gave a response to someone that asked me a pointed question about the state of my marriage before the affair.


Fair enough. Your H marriage at that time. What state was it in his mind?


----------



## Affaircare

Hey, @peachesncream, 

Let me give you a short example. I am a person who was unfaithful, so I have been in your shoes and at minimum I have some empathy for you. I'm not trying to hurt you or drive you off. So I just want you to get an idea of my back story and the kind of person I am when I write to you, okay?

Now, the events surrounding my infidelity were that Dear Hubby and I were in our very early 40's and both loved kids. I became pregnant and lost the baby at 20 weeks...and we were both grieving of that loss. Related to that lost pregnancy, we both had doctor appointments and found out that we were unable to have any more children...medically impossible. So we were grieving over that. I like to grieve by hugging and crying together--Dear Hubby's grief was more like introspection, process it, come to terms with it, and then come back out an reconnect. Well...I didn't know that so to me it felt like just when I needed him for a double whammy, he abandoned me. He wasn't abusive or any other vice; he just wasn't present and I felt cast aside. I thought, "Okay...well, I'll do my own thing" and started this recreation I enjoy and he doesn't and someone noticed me. That was how my affair started. 

BUT THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT!!!! That is not "why" my affair happened. Those are the events surrounding the cheating. Those are circumstances and feelings and miscommunications, but they aren't really "why." In real life, my affair happened because I was wrong. I did not know truly understand what commitment was, what it really meant. I did not know how to include my Dear Hubby in every single aspect of my life. I did not know how a solid marriage has a foundation of compatibility and friendship...and needs constant protection and growth. I did not view and think of marriage properly. My integrity was lax and it degraded. I didn't know my own weaknesses. I did not protect my marriage from myself! I didn't protect my Dear Hubby from the harm I could do if I didn't stay vigilant. 

Why my affair happened had nothing to do with the circumstances. They were like the surrounding environment that set up the potential for adultery, but they didn't CAUSE it. What CAUSED it was me... a defect (if you will) in me. And I don't mean that I'm not valueable or loveable or I'm defective!! I just mean that I had thinking and understanding that was flawed. I had to admit it was me. I had to learn to think and be different. I had to practice what I learned. I had to change ME. 

Make sense? That's what we're saying. I get it--your hubby was inattentive and hurt you. This was the environment in which the cheating began. But the reason WHY the affair began is that you have a personality or character weakness within yourself (BTW, we all have weaknesses), and a LOVING marriage partner knows themselves well enough to KNOW their weaknesses, and protect their partner FROM their weaknesses with good boundaries. That's WHY. You had the environment, you had a weakness, you made the deliberate choice to cheat. 

And all choices have both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that you have that weakness propped up and you feel good instead of hurting. The cost of cheating is that the marriage is destroyed in a nuclear blast that tears it apart atom from atom. That old marriage is dead. It will never resurrect; it will never be "the way it was" because the cost of what you chose is death. You'll need to accept that and grieve for it. You nuked the man you supposedly loved, and nuking someone is not loving. 

Either way, work on getting to know yourself and your weaknesses, and work on changing your thinking about commitment, transparency, and marriage. If your hubby chooses to give you another chance, it will be to build a whole new marriage--something completely different than what you had. Okay?


----------



## oldtruck

peachesncream said:


> Lol. You know nothing if me or the full story of my life or relationship. Clearly getting some sort if satisfaction of ripping people apart from your bitterness of your own relationship. I guess whoever cheated on you didnt want you back.


A day later this post, and you ignored answering my question was there sexting.


----------



## RebuildingMe

If you read her SI post, there was sexting, mutual masturbation phones calls and even a plan for an in person visit. All of which was left out of the TAM version.


----------



## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> No my post was to the people calling me a terrible, promiscuous person. I do realize that I’ve destroyed my husband. He is broken. I can see it. I am consumed with guilt and appreciate the advice that was given to me to try to make it right.
> 
> I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


First off you can use the ignore button if you feel you are being harassed, that will hide peoples posts but a word of advice I would use it sparingly because right now you are raw but just because something is painful to read doesn't mean there isn't a benefit in hearing painful truths. Truth is more important then comfort for you right now.

I think this quote is a good start. When you say transparency you need to give him as much as he asks for, even if it is very hard for him to deal with. He deserves to have his agency back in his life. That is the thing when you cheat on someone you do more then betray them you remove the agency in their life. He was never given a chance in 2.5 years of his life to even know what was going on. That is among other reasons why most of us feel like infidelity is abuse. If you understand how the word agency is used in other context then you know the gravity of what we are talking about here. Yes it's very similar just on an emotional scale. 

When you say you love your husband what does that mean to you? It's easy to say you love him but your actions are what really dictate that. 

I think what you will find is you can never make it right or fix him, what you can do is change yourself so that if you stay together you will provide the safety in his relationship needed for him to try heal himself. It will be up to him to heal himself and they may involve eventually leaving the marriage. He will have to do what it takes to do that. Which is part of why this sucks so much, the only one who can heal him is him. Though you did the damage, well probably because you did the damage you can't fix it. 

I want you to think about the last sentence you wrote the quote above? "It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage." The fact that you can write that just shows that you don't get it yet. Which is to be expected this close to being caught. It's a very rare person who would get it that soon. If you got it you wouldn't have done it in the first place. But it is useful to illustrate how detached you are from his feelings. How you are still the center of your own universe. Yes you know you are wrong but you have yet to reach that empathic place that you will need to get if you are to have a chance. 

So taking that into account given what you have done do you believe that is true? Do you not see the irony of what you are saying? Or is it that you feel entitled enough to believe that you still deserve to be married after what you have done? I am sure in his mind you did throw away 18 years of marriage. I am sure he feels that 18 years of his effort was all a waste. 

It's painful to hear I am sure but it's not him but you who threw away 18 years of marriage. 

That's the thing, your marriage is over now.

Given that fact the you need to really be sure you want this NEW marriage because if you are really just reacting out of shame and guilt that is a terrible reason to continue in the marriage. If it was hard before it will be a lot harder for the foreseeable future. Also your position has changed and even if you had reasonable grievances they will have to take a back seat. Your husband deserves to have someone who truly loves and wants to be him for him, not because they don't want to feel shame for how they treated him. Trust me in the long run he will be much better off. If after a time you can come to that decision then you must understand that you doing everything you say in the paragraph above is just what is expected. You must do all that. Then it's up to him to decide what the quality of his life will be moving forward with you and if that will be worth it to him. That will probably take him some time to know. 

From your other posts it sound like he may just be done, and that is a reasonable if not the most reasonable response to someone abusing you with infidelity. 

One more thing? Have you been in contact with your AP since the discovery? Your story kind of doesn't make sense, how can you go from seeing this guy as your soulmate and saying how you would be together one minute and dropping him like he was nothing the next? Did you think that you loved him? This is something you are going to need to figure out and deal with as well. 

You wrote 



> Yes, I felt very in love with AP and yes I tried many times to end it and even had a 1.5 year break. I am starting to see now that it was not real love.


I think you need to be open to at least the possibility that you don't really have a good handle on what love is. I think in cases where people at one point are in "love" with their AP and the next switch back to there spouse on a dime, mistake that "desperate need" to be with a person as love. It's not. What you feel now for your husband that you didn't until you get caught is desperation to stay together. Just like before you had a desperate desire for the forbidden fruit that was your AP. But desperation is NOT love, yes we sing about it in songs because it corresponds to the feelings you have when you meet someone and have initial attraction, so that is why we think it's love. But it's not. You need to think about this. For a few reasons, one because it's unfair to stay in a marriage because you desperately want to stay together to avoid consequences. You also need to really understand that you probably don't love either one of these guys at least right now. Now maybe you did at first. But finally because your husband deserves to really be loved, and you deserve to be able to properly unselfishly love someone. 

Again it will be much worse if you say your sorry make all the promises above, your husband gives you a chance only to be cheated on again. Don't do that! I think you very much want to move forward and get your marriage to a great place, but you need to stop and work on yourself. Stop worrying about getting intimacy back for instance, your husband is bleeding out right now. It will be months of him trying to just get back on his feet. Treat him like someone who is terribly wounded because he is, emotionally, he is not capable of even thinking about making your marriage better right now. He just wants the pain to relent for few hours.


----------



## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> I gave a response to someone that asked me a pointed question about the state of my marriage before the affair.


We call it blame shifting because we know from experience that this is just a very shallow reason for why it happened. If you truly mature and change you will find that the truly useful reason is not going to be about external events but about what it is in you that would allow you to give up your honor, your values and allow yourself to hurt the person you profess to love. Why didn't your conscience check you and prevent you from doing this? What does that say about your true feelings for your husband. About who you really are and who you want to be. This is the level of understand you need to get to, a much deeper level. Lots of people in bad marriages lose their parents, actually all of them do at one point. Not all of them cheat. 

So yes you were grieving, but the next question or series of questions you should ask when you think about this is.

1. Why didn't you go to your husband when you were grieving?
2. Why did you allow yourself to brake your vows and do something that you knew would hurt your husband to help with your grieving?


----------



## sokillme

Affaircare said:


> Hey, @peachesncream,
> 
> Let me give you a short example. I am a person who was unfaithful, so I have been in your shoes and at minimum I have some empathy for you. I'm not trying to hurt you or drive you off. So I just want you to get an idea of my back story and the kind of person I am when I write to you, okay?
> 
> Now, the events surrounding my infidelity were that Dear Hubby and I were in our very early 40's and both loved kids. I became pregnant and lost the baby at 20 weeks...and we were both grieving of that loss. Related to that lost pregnancy, we both had doctor appointments and found out that we were unable to have any more children...medically impossible. So we were grieving over that. I like to grieve by hugging and crying together--Dear Hubby's grief was more like introspection, process it, come to terms with it, and then come back out an reconnect. Well...I didn't know that so to me it felt like just when I needed him for a double whammy, he abandoned me. He wasn't abusive or any other vice; he just wasn't present and I felt cast aside. I thought, "Okay...well, I'll do my own thing" and started this recreation I enjoy and he doesn't and someone noticed me. That was how my affair started.
> 
> BUT THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT!!!! That is not "why" my affair happened. Those are the events surrounding the cheating. Those are circumstances and feelings and miscommunications, but they aren't really "why." In real life, my affair happened because I was wrong. I did not know truly understand what commitment was, what it really meant. I did not know how to include my Dear Hubby in every single aspect of my life. I did not know how a solid marriage has a foundation of compatibility and friendship...and needs constant protection and growth. I did not view and think of marriage properly. My integrity was lax and it degraded. I didn't know my own weaknesses. I did not protect my marriage from myself! I didn't protect my Dear Hubby from the harm I could do if I didn't stay vigilant.
> 
> Why my affair happened had nothing to do with the circumstances. They were like the surrounding environment that set up the potential for adultery, but they didn't CAUSE it. What CAUSED it was me... a defect (if you will) in me. And I don't mean that I'm not valueable or loveable or I'm defective!! I just mean that I had thinking and understanding that was flawed. I had to admit it was me. I had to learn to think and be different. I had to practice what I learned. I had to change ME.
> 
> Make sense? That's what we're saying. I get it--your hubby was inattentive and hurt you. This was the environment in which the cheating began. But the reason WHY the affair began is that you have a personality or character weakness within yourself (BTW, we all have weaknesses), and a LOVING marriage partner knows themselves well enough to KNOW their weaknesses, and protect their partner FROM their weaknesses with good boundaries. That's WHY. You had the environment, you had a weakness, you made the deliberate choice to cheat.
> 
> And all choices have both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that you have that weakness propped up and you feel good instead of hurting. The cost of cheating is that the marriage is destroyed in a nuclear blast that tears it apart atom from atom. That old marriage is dead. It will never resurrect; it will never be "the way it was" because the cost of what you chose is death. You'll need to accept that and grieve for it. You nuked the man you supposedly loved, and nuking someone is not loving.
> 
> Either way, work on getting to know yourself and your weaknesses, and work on changing your thinking about commitment, transparency, and marriage. If your hubby chooses to give you another chance, it will be to build a whole new marriage--something completely different than what you had. Okay?


I wish I could like this more then once. This is such a valuable post it should be pinned to the top. 

By the way OP this is one of the former WS I am talking about here.


----------



## Marduk

RebuildingMe said:


> If you read her SI post, there was sexting, mutual masturbation phones calls and even a plan for an in person visit. All of which was left out of the TAM version.


:/

As suspected. 

Not an emotional affair at all. Just an interrupted long term sexual affair. 

It’s natural to want to minimize @peachesncream. You need to confront this head on.


----------



## Aspydad

peachesncream said:


> No my post was to the people calling me a terrible, promiscuous person. I do realize that I’ve destroyed my husband. He is broken. I can see it. I am consumed with guilt and appreciate the advice that was given to me to try to make it right.
> 
> I saw a counselor today who really helped me put things in perspective. I plan to offer full transparency to my husband, let him know that I still love him and will do anything it takes to fix our marriage, and then leave the ball in his court. If he chooses to divorce me I will give him an easy divorce with split custody, as we are both equally financially stable. Until he reaches a decision I will focus on fixing myself, being present for my kids and there for him when he decides he wants me to be again. I have a lot of demons and grief to deal with on my own now. In the end I do think he will come around since a physical line wasn’t crossed. It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


I agree. Was betrayed by my wife about 10 years ago. While I do not see her as I did early in our marriage, I see her as she is - with faults that have been exposed to me (by the way - I am not perfect either). I still love her - but, it took years for my love to return as deep as it was before - no fun starting over - as this is what you will have to do. It took work - beginning with her having to admit to herself her flaws - her changing - adjusting - then me - changing adjusting. In the end - we are much stronger as a couple - but it took years. 

Your husband - is going through grief - just like someone died - because the women he thought he knew, is no longer. 

Will not go in to a huge story - but, my wife financially betrayed me and had an emotional affair - a double whammy.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> Its kind of hard to put a 2.5 year relationship down completely in one post.


This shows your entitlement, " completely " because of not shedding more light you posted only the above. This shows insincerity, and we are strangers still unable to digress more truthful facts. Yes you are in the self persevere mode. That's all. If you want real advice to backup and help put HERE what you posted on SI. 

You attack posters here because it's your belief that your 2.5 yr affair is something special it not, and no one is that special snowflake. Do bring your post here as posters here don't go back and forth to another fourm until they get the kid glove treatment. Because if you do get your justification over at Sl your marriage is still doomed. Because your husband won't care what others tell you that justified you affair.


----------



## peachesncream

Tilted 1 said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its kind of hard to put a 2.5 year relationship down completely in one post.
> 
> 
> 
> This shows your entitlement, " completely " because of not shedding more light you posted only the above. This shows insincerity, and we are strangers still unable to digress more truthful facts. Yes you are in the self persevere mode. That's all. If you want real advice to backup and help put HERE what you posted on SI.
> 
> You attack posters here because it's your belief that your 2.5 yr affair is something special it not, and no one is that special snowflake. Do bring your post here as posters here don't go back and forth to another fourm until they get the kid glove treatment. Because if you do get your justification over at Sl your marriage is still doomed. Because your husband won't care what others tell you that justified you affair.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. My husband is actually agreeing to do IC and then marriage counseling to work things out. I know it will be a long hard road but there is some hope now. I appreciate the insight every one has given me.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Thanks for the advice. My husband is actually agreeing to do IC and then marriage counseling to work things out. I know it will be a long hard road but there is some hope now. I appreciate the insight every one has given me.


Why do you want him to work it out? For you or for him?


----------



## The Middleman

peachesncream said:


> Thanks for the advice. *My husband is actually agreeing to do IC and then marriage counseling to work things out.* I know it will be a long hard road but there is some hope now. I appreciate the insight every one has given me.


Can you expand further on your comment below please?



> I know its sick but *I am actually feeling guilty because my AP is not married.* Was during part of our relationship. His wife cheated on him and actually got pregnant by another man in 2017. *I feel guilty because we had plans to have a real relationship. I told him that I was committed to him. .He thinks I am his soulmate.* I thought that too but realize now how stupid that was.


From my perspective, you shouldn’t give a rat’s ass if the AP gets hit by a bus and dies tomorrow. You husband is the only person you should have sympathy for. It sounds like you still have feelings for your AP ... and you do realize that this is a man that you haven’t actually met in person. He was a just voice on the phone and the image of a body (or body parts) on a computer screen.


----------



## Casual Observer

peachesncream said:


> Thanks for the advice. My husband is actually agreeing to do IC and then marriage counseling to work things out. I know it will be a long hard road but there is some hope now. I appreciate the insight every one has given me.


I hope it does work out for the two of you. I hope you can start over, looking at the past as a marriage that you failed to remain faithful in, and that despite that baggage, he could make the decision to marry you again. Eyes-wide-open. That you can live in a fish bowl and still love him without reservation.

And you've got to get it all out in the open. You've apparently trickle-truthed here, in an anonymous forum (based on the extended details apparently provided in SI). You cannot try and control the narrative and have the marriage work. 

It's a very tough road ahead. You have to hand over the keys to your husband and never, ever, ask for them back. He might someday give them back, but you cannot ask for them. You cannot be thinking about what you need to do to get them back.

Hope you can do it.


----------



## Decorum

peachesncream said:


> Thanks for the advice. My husband is actually agreeing to do IC and then marriage counseling to work things out. I know it will be a long hard road but there is some hope now. I appreciate the insight every one has given me.



Lol, peaches, peaches, peaches, you want hope, and comfort, and assurance that everything will be ok.

Your husband is only in the beginning stages. The day will come when he will hate himself for staying with you.

How he manages that stage is a key benchmark in assessing whether your reconciliation with be healthy or toxic.

Imagine swimming a 50m freestyle in an Olympic pool of Drano. He will have to conquer that.

Do you understand your role in supporting him in all this?


----------



## Marduk

There’s a core question that I think cheaters should ask themselves when they want to reconcile: why?

She was willing to throw her marriage away for 900 days. Then... she suddenly desperately wants it. Why? All that has changed is that he knows. 

Does she love him? Truly want the best for him? If she did, she wouldn’t want him to be with someone that would cheat on him for 2.5 years. 

If she didn’t love him, why want him back? What is she going to get out of it?

I really struggle with her fighting this hard to keep something she willingly threw away every day for almost a thousand days. I worry that she’ll throw it away again if she gets him back, or that he’ll unhappily stay never actually getting over it. 

Again, the only thing that stopped the affair and got her wanting this marriage was getting caught.


----------



## Decorum

Marduk said:


> There’s a core question that I think cheaters should ask themselves when they want to reconcile: why?
> 
> She was willing to throw her marriage away for 900 days. Then... she suddenly desperately wants it. Why? All that has changed is that he knows.
> 
> Does she love him? Truly want the best for him? If she did, she wouldn’t want him to be with someone that would cheat on him for 2.5 years.
> 
> If she didn’t love him, why want him back? What is she going to get out of it?
> 
> I really struggle with her fighting this hard to keep something she willingly threw away every day for almost a thousand days. I worry that she’ll throw it away again if she gets him back, or that he’ll unhappily stay never actually getting over it.
> 
> Again, the only thing that stopped the affair and got her wanting this marriage was getting caught.


I don't think she even wants to honestly consider that question atm.

In all fairness there is often quite a mixture of motives in the beginning.

Sometimes true remorsefulness emerges from the mix, but it is usually accompanied by a realization that the wayward has some genuine integrity.

I am afraid that peaches thinks, "we got along well before, so moving forward all we need to do is ratchet up the intimacy a few notches, and then when he gets over this, we will be good!".


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

peachesncream said:


> It is not easy to throw away 18 years of marriage.


Then how did you do it so regularly for 2.5 years? That's what you have to figure out, and change that aspect of yourself.

Then your husband has to be willing to wait for this process to complete and to believe that the change is lasting. Once trust is destroyed, it's nearly insurmountable to get it back because that requires trust.


----------



## sokillme

Blaming your marriage for a failing in yourself is not going to fix this. It's not a path to change yourself or in the end one that leads to a successful marriage with anyone. Your marriage did not cause you to cheat on your husband, your lack of character did, so going to counseling to fix your marriage isn't going to fix that. You need to fix your character first, then maybe you will get the real chance to fix your marriage, but right now in the story of your life and marriage you have become an unreliable narrator. It's very possible once you work on yourself you view of the problems in your marriage may change dramatically. 

It's also very likely you husband is acting out of desperation, this corresponds to the desperation of grief. But eventually there comes acceptance, and when he gets there and figures out that he is holding himself responsible because you didn't want to take yours this will not go well.


----------



## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> I have had several helpful responses through private messages. I realize what a terrible thing Ive done. People here are name calling and being downright hateful. Clearly this is not a safe place for people who have made mistakes. Hopefully this thread is a warning for anyone else reading here that has been on my side of things.


And as far as you getting private message, from other poster here, well if they really wanted to help they also would be transparent here also. Not just for you sake but for others who are going through something such as yourself.

So take them private messages with a grain of salt. Because if they were so great they would share them with you on the public context. If they don't they just maybe blowing smoke in dark places. They maybe enablers themselves, or plain ole whippin post. 

I do think you can really learn things here, but if you can be open and ready. 

Tilted


----------



## The Middleman

Tilted 1 said:


> And as far as you getting private message, from other poster here, well if they really wanted to help they also would be transparent here also. Not just for you sake but for others who are going through something such as yourself.
> Tilted


Agreed. The PM stuff, while it might be decent advice, is bull**** thing to do.


----------



## peachesncream

You guys have given me a lot of good advice and have forced me to take a long hard look at myself. I really do appreciate the wake up call even the messages that were hard to read.

Im leaving it in his hands and trying to be as understanding as possible. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. If he wants to reconcile we will which is what he’s asking for now. Ive deleted all my apps and blocked the other man. I am also giving my husband full access to my phone. I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I never thought I was a person capable of such deceit. am truly sorry and consumed with guilt for hurting the man that has always been there for me.


----------



## TJW

peachesncream said:


> I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him.


Giving him transparency, like access to your phone, is one way. Good move.
Being willing to not only go to counseling or therapy, but "do the work" when you're not in the counselor's office.... that's another....good move.
"Being there" and "listening" are also good moves.

But I want to tell you where it "boiled down" for me, and what my wife could have done differently that would have likely resulted in a different outcome.

The "bottom line" was not her affair. It was her blame-shifting that told me a story about her that I couldn't ignore. Because she blamed everything, me, her ex, her mother, her father, everybody but HER for it. I learned, from this "story", that she was not a person I ever wanted to be intimate with again, there could be no trust, no "place of safety". She was "Delilah", the barber... I could not let her know about my hair, because I would get a haircut.....

That..... was what ruined our marriage....

there's no guarantees..... but this one..... without the "place of safety"....there's going to be no marriage...


----------



## Lila

Moderator Note:

I have gone back and cleaned up this thread to avoid it turning into a Monday Morning Quarterback session - Infidelity version. Please, let's avoid a thread jack. Keep the posts directed to supporting and advising the OP.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> You guys have given me a lot of good advice and have forced me to take a long hard look at myself. I really do appreciate the wake up call even the messages that were hard to read.
> 
> Im leaving it in his hands and trying to be as understanding as possible. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. If he wants to reconcile we will which is what he’s asking for now. Ive deleted all my apps and blocked the other man. I am also giving my husband full access to my phone. I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I never thought I was a person capable of such deceit. am truly sorry and consumed with guilt for hurting the man that has always been there for me.


It is a great start. Understand that your H will change his mind on things from day to day. Sometimes from minute to minute. It is an emotional roller coaster for your H. Just roll with it and listen.


----------



## Yeswecan

Oh for heavens sake. You are talking with your AP via another method. What part of NC do you not understand? 

Posting at SI what is happening and not posting same here helps no one. 

Further, your AP is playing emotional mind games with he will start drinking and drugs all because you are cutting him off. See it for what it is. Manipulation using your emotions. Your AP is piece of work. Stop communicating! 

Your BH finds out you are still talking with OM...D-DAY #2 for him. Poor soul. Does not deserve this at all.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Yeswecan said:


> Oh for heavens sake. You are talking with your AP via another method. What part of NC do you not understand?
> 
> *Posting at SI what is happening and not posting same here helps no one.*
> 
> Further, your AP is playing emotional mind games with he will start drinking and drugs all because you are cutting him off. See it for what it is. Manipulation using your emotions. Your AP is piece of work. Stop communicating!
> 
> Your BH finds out you are still talking with OM...D-DAY #2 for him. Poor soul. Does not deserve this at all.


What in the world.....


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys have given me a lot of good advice and have forced me to take a long hard look at myself. I really do appreciate the wake up call even the messages that were hard to read.
> 
> Im leaving it in his hands and trying to be as understanding as possible. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. If he wants to reconcile we will which is what he’s asking for now. Ive deleted all my apps and blocked the other man. I am also giving my husband full access to my phone. I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I never thought I was a person capable of such deceit. am truly sorry and consumed with guilt for hurting the man that has always been there for me.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a great start. Understand that your H will change his mind on things from day to day. Sometimes from minute to minute. It is an emotional roller coaster for your H. Just roll with it and listen.
Click to expand...

Im not talking to him. He reached out to me through another method that i did not think to block him from and I promptly deleted him and blocked him from that. Not sure how I could have prevented that.


----------



## bobert

peachesncream said:


> Im not talking to him. He reached out to me through another method that i did not think to block him from and I promptly deleted him and blocked him from that. Not sure how I could have prevented that.


You better be showing your husband all of these messages that your AP is sending you "on other avenues".


----------



## Decorum

peachesncream said:


> You guys have given me a lot of good advice and have forced me to take a long hard look at myself. I really do appreciate the wake up call even the messages that were hard to read.
> 
> Im leaving it in his hands and trying to be as understanding as possible. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. If he wants to reconcile we will which is what he’s asking for now. Ive deleted all my apps and blocked the other man. I am also giving my husband full access to my phone. I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I never thought I was a person capable of such deceit. am truly sorry and consumed with guilt for hurting the man that has always been there for me.



You are doing the right things, you are owning your actions.

That is the only way he will ever feel safe with you.

Don't you want that for him? (I think you do)

Think about it. Every phone call you have, every errand you run, every text you smile at, everytime you are a little late, in the pit of his stomach he will feel that fear, that insecurity, that doubt.

You have to be willing to endure that for as long as it takes, and be understanding and supportive. 

*The most important thing you can do is rebuild YOUR respect for him!!!!* (I will have something to say about HIS respect for you below.)

That will make all the difference in the world, it will also increase his sexual interest in you.

I'll tell you why, sex offeres validation, if you are "smitten " with him, in awe of him with respect, he will pursue you. It is something that men find very attractive in a woman.

But don't overdue it, especially in the beginning, just be aware of it, and let it develope naturally. 

Here is the flip side, and you have a problem here, because he is panicking a bit, not wanting to lose you, and not wanting to lose your shared history. But that residual "ownership", "territorial" feeling will only last so long, and only take you two so far.

So here is the flipside, and your problem.
As he processes what you have done, and all of its implications his respect for you will continue to drop, little by little, day by day. 

A man's love (anyone's really) will hover around their level of respect for you. As the respect drops, the love will follow.

Your only hope is to continue to take responsiblity for YOUR actions, keep working on yourself through individual counseling, and be completely supportive of him. Again don't look desperate, just be alert, honest, available, supportive, and remorseful. 

Dont you wish you had put in this kind of interest and effort before you made the choice to be unfaithful. There is an important lesson there for you future. Fix a problem early, dont exacerbate it.

I'm going to tell you something that I would not say if I did not think you are beginning to understand the damage you caused, and were attempting to take responsiblity for it.

It is a simple thing, but it is profoundly moving.

Tell him something, and repeat it from time to time, again without overdoing it.

When your gut tells you he needs to hear it and the timing is right, get close to him, look him in the eyes and tell him, "I can see I used the poorest judgment of my life in my unfaithfulness, but I want you to know, from my heart, that I'm YOUR girl. From the crown of my head to the soles of my feet, I'm your girl, and you rock my world."

Btw, ban the word "mistake" from your vocabulary, trust me here.

Also dont tell him you will understand if he divorces you. I get what you are trying to say, but it just doesn't communicate the right message. So if you have said it just dont say it again.

Tell him instead, " I will have to respect any decision you make, but I will fight for you, and I will fight for us with everything I have". Just leave it at that.

A few last thought. Accept that transparency is for life. Also vacations with the girls, girls night out, opposits sex friends, and drinking alcohol when he is not present are all questionable ideas. You must talk about what is acceptable now. Things have changes, and changed forever.

You dont have to discuss all this right now, but you should seek and respect his feelings on these.

I get that you became vulnerable through a series of life events. Not everyone who is vulnerable becomes unfaithful. It is those series of choices that you must own. It is those motives, grief, loss, sadness, loneliness, selfishness, lust, etc., that you must address to handle in a more healthy non-damaging way.

Also develope boundaries for yourself that you purpose to observe that will keep you from putting yourself in a compromising situation.

If at your core you are a good person, then the big lesson of this is apparent to you, and you will not follow this path again. Pain is a signal that a course of action is damaging. 

Pain in your conscience is the same. Let your painful life lesson be a reminder. Dont run from it. It is there to guide your future choices.

I really wish you both well.
Take care!


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> You guys have given me a lot of good advice and have forced me to take a long hard look at myself. I really do appreciate the wake up call even the messages that were hard to read.
> 
> Im leaving it in his hands and trying to be as understanding as possible. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. If he wants to reconcile we will which is what he’s asking for now. Ive deleted all my apps and blocked the other man. I am also giving my husband full access to my phone. I do not know what else to do besides be there and listen to him. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy. I never thought I was a person capable of such deceit. am truly sorry and consumed with guilt for hurting the man that has always been there for me.


What you can do for him:

Be a better person. This will be the hardest work of your life. Long term, it will be the lies that cause the most trauma. 

Integrity is what you do when nobody’s watching.


----------



## highwood

I think it is easy to get caught up in that EA crap...esp. long distance...it feels somewhat safer! I think it is of no coincidence that your relationship has not been great the last couple of years as that is the time frame you have been caught up in this EA.

Think of the time you will have now to doing more productive things...I know that when people are engaging in an EA online it is such a waste of time. I remember H when he had his EA I would leave home after lunch to go back to work and come home 4 hours later and he would still be sitting on the computer. I did not know what he was doing then..but found out later!

I remember when I found out and out of hurt, I very briefly reached out on a cheater site and ended up texting someone for a couple of days before I realized how stupid this was and what a waste of time it was. I would sit and text for two hours and not even realize the time that went by and how I did nothing...then I gave my head a shake and thought wtf, this is ridiculous! Total waste of time! But it is easy to get caught up in it but you have to think do I want a healthy productive life or a sit and stare at my phone life??

I remember too thinking that it felt really wrong and gross too...kind of sleazy!


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Im not talking to him. He reached out to me through another method that i did not think to block him from and I promptly deleted him and blocked him from that. Not sure how I could have prevented that.


Great. Keep at it. Ghost him hard. This guy is an emotional manipulator of the worst kind. You are in a fight for your marriage. AP has become enemy #1.


----------



## Marduk

Yeswecan said:


> Great. Keep at it. Ghost him hard. This guy is an emotional manipulator of the worst kind. You are in a fight for your marriage. AP has become enemy #1.


If she has shared pictures and videos with the guy, as it sounds like she has, there remains the risk that these could be used against her, or posted somewhere in revenge.

If the AP actually wants her, he could threaten her with this. If he doesn’t care about her or is narcissistic, he could do it out of spite.

Years from now this could happen. Best be careful. I once heard the AP sending the husband explicit videos of his wife getting it on with the AP years later just to screw with them.


----------



## Yeswecan

Marduk said:


> If she has shared pictures and videos with the guy, as it sounds like she has, there remains the risk that these could be used against her, or posted somewhere in revenge.
> 
> If the AP actually wants her, he could threaten her with this. If he doesn’t care about her or is narcissistic, he could do it out of spite.
> 
> Years from now this could happen. Best be careful.


Good call. But, PnC should not be held captive to this crap if it crops up. Police involvement will be required.


----------



## Marduk

Yeswecan said:


> Good call. But, PnC should not be held captive to this crap if it crops up. Police involvement will be required.


100% agree. My point is to be ready if this is a possibility. Her husband should know what the AP has and doesn’t have.


----------



## peachesncream

Marduk said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great. Keep at it. Ghost him hard. This guy is an emotional manipulator of the worst kind. You are in a fight for your marriage. AP has become enemy #1.
> 
> 
> 
> If she has shared pictures and videos with the guy, as it sounds like she has, there remains the risk that these could be used against her, or posted somewhere in revenge.
> 
> If the AP actually wants her, he could threaten her with this. If he doesn’t care about her or is narcissistic, he could do it out of spite.
> 
> Years from now this could happen. Best be careful. I once heard the AP sending the husband explicit videos of his wife getting it on with the AP years later just to screw with them.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, he has nothing identifying that could be used against me. I do think he is a manipulator I am starting to see it now. Not shifting blame but he knew I was in a happy marriage when this started and blasted me with compliments and attention. Now I have to figure out why I let that affect me so much.


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not talking to him. He reached out to me through another method that i did not think to block him from and I promptly deleted him and blocked him from that. Not sure how I could have prevented that.
> 
> 
> 
> Great. Keep at it. Ghost him hard. This guy is an emotional manipulator of the worst kind. You are in a fight for your marriage. AP has become enemy #1.
Click to expand...

That is exactly how I’m starting to see him.


----------



## peachesncream

highwood said:


> I think it is easy to get caught up in that EA crap...esp. long distance...it feels somewhat safer! I think it is of no coincidence that your relationship has not been great the last couple of years as that is the time frame you have been caught up in this EA.
> 
> Think of the time you will have now to doing more productive things...I know that when people are engaging in an EA online it is such a waste of time. I remember H when he had his EA I would leave home after lunch to go back to work and come home 4 hours later and he would still be sitting on the computer. I did not know what he was doing then..but found out later!
> 
> I remember when I found out and out of hurt, I very briefly reached out on a cheater site and ended up texting someone for a couple of days before I realized how stupid this was and what a waste of time it was. I would sit and text for two hours and not even realize the time that went by and how I did nothing...then I gave my head a shake and thought wtf, this is ridiculous! Total waste of time! But it is easy to get caught up in it but you have to think do I want a healthy productive life or a sit and stare at my phone life??
> 
> I remember too thinking that it felt really wrong and gross too...kind of sleazy!


Yes the distance was a big factor. Ive had other men hit on me locally with much better status and did not feel tempted to destroy my family. In a sick way it felt safe. I did waste a lot of time which looking back now I’m very embarrassed about. I could have accomplished so much with that time.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Yes the distance was a big factor. *Ive had other men hit on me locally with much better status *and did not feel tempted to destroy my family. In a sick way it felt safe. I did waste a lot of time which looking back now I’m very embarrassed about. I could have accomplished so much with that time.


Uh, what?

Define, please.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Thankfully, he has nothing identifying that could be used against me. I do think he is a manipulator I am starting to see it now. Not shifting blame but he knew I was in a happy marriage when this started and blasted me with compliments and attention. Now I have to figure out why I let that affect me so much.


But it is now running deeper with the emotional manipulation. You stated at SI AP said he would start drinking, using drugs and finding other women. Understand AP is manipulating you emotionally. If you do this(NC) he will do that. It will be all your fault for his crappy choices(if he runs to drugs/alcohol). That's his problem. Don't buy it. He is a selfish person. Does not care about you, your kids, your marriage or your husband.


----------



## peachesncream

Marduk said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the distance was a big factor. *Ive had other men hit on me locally with much better status *and did not feel tempted to destroy my family. In a sick way it felt safe. I did waste a lot of time which looking back now I’m very embarrassed about. I could have accomplished so much with that time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, what?
> 
> Define, please.
Click to expand...

All I’m saying is that I’ve never felt the desire to step out before or get out of line when flirted with which has happened. The AP is not someone I would normally associate with. He has a criminal history, history of drug use and everything that comes with it. Just typing that makes me feel like I’ve lost my mind.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Yes the distance was a big factor. Ive had other men hit on me locally with much better status and did not feel tempted to destroy my family. In a sick way it felt safe. I did waste a lot of time which looking back now I’m very embarrassed about. I could have accomplished so much with that time.


Perhaps what you were doing with the AP was not an affair in your mind? Some see only getting physical as a true affair. There are several different types of affairs as you now see.


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully, he has nothing identifying that could be used against me. I do think he is a manipulator I am starting to see it now. Not shifting blame but he knew I was in a happy marriage when this started and blasted me with compliments and attention. Now I have to figure out why I let that affect me so much.
> 
> 
> 
> But it is now running deeper with the emotional manipulation. You stated at SI AP said he would start drinking, using drugs and finding other women. Understand AP is manipulating you emotionally. If you do this(NC) he will do that. It will be all your fault for his crappy choices(if he runs to drugs/alcohol). That's his problem. Don't buy it. He is a selfish person. Does not care about you, your kids, your marriage or your husband.
Click to expand...

You’re right. It sounds so terrible and manipulative. Thank you for helping me see that clearly.


----------



## peachesncream

Yeswecan said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the distance was a big factor. Ive had other men hit on me locally with much better status and did not feel tempted to destroy my family. In a sick way it felt safe. I did waste a lot of time which looking back now I’m very embarrassed about. I could have accomplished so much with that time.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps what you were doing with the AP was not an affair in your mind? Some see only getting physical as a true affair. There are several different types of affairs as you now see.
Click to expand...

It did not feel like an affair at first or for a long time.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> All I’m saying is that I’ve never felt the desire to step out before or get out of line when flirted with which has happened. The AP is not someone I would normally associate with. He has a criminal history, history of drug use and everything that comes with it. Just typing that makes me feel like I’ve lost my mind.


Not what I’m asking.

Tell us about you getting hit on and what exactly makes one of them high status compared to someone else. That is going to likely play into your reconciliation.

And now I’m doubly worried about what this guy might have on you. Or over you.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> All I’m saying is that I’ve never felt the desire to step out before or get out of line when flirted with which has happened. The AP is not someone I would normally associate with. He has a criminal history, history of drug use and everything that comes with it. *Just typing that makes me feel like I’ve lost my mind.*


You are now seeing the light!


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> You’re right. It sounds so terrible and manipulative. Thank you for helping me see that clearly.


I have dealt with this manipulative behavior before. It involved my daughter and her BF. His play as he was going to kill himself is she left him. I caught wind of that. I advised next time he states this let me know. Within a day he text he would kill himself if she left him. Great, I have it in writing now. I called his bluff. I called the police. He was picked up and observed for 3 days. It was not a good outcome for him. My daughter was free of his selfish manipulative butt. 

Glad you see what your AP is attempting to do. Don't fall for it. 

Now go get things straight with the person that has been the stable person in your life.


----------



## peachesncream

Marduk said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I’m saying is that I’ve never felt the desire to step out before or get out of line when flirted with which has happened. The AP is not someone I would normally associate with. He has a criminal history, history of drug use and everything that comes with it. Just typing that makes me feel like I’ve lost my mind.[/quote
> 
> Not what I’m asking.
> 
> Tell us about you getting hit on and what exactly makes one of them high status compared to someone else. That is going to likely play into your reconciliation.
> 
> And now I’m doubly worried about what this guy might have on you. Or over you.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't mean anything by it other than non criminal past past drug addicts.
Click to expand...


----------



## Oldtimer

I was pretty harsh in my previous post, but remain true to my humble statements. I feel a sense of relief in reading your posts in that you seem to be waking to reality. The OM is a piece of doo doo and a serious manipulator. 

Unfortunately, there is still the issue of your husbands ED to contend with if it’s true ED at all. Perhaps he suffers from low T. He should see a doctor with your support, it’s not easy for a man to deal with this, especially when the one who claims to love him is not there for him.

I would also suggest that you reread all of the posts with a focus on yours. Try to do this from an outside perspective. Honey, I promise you will see how much your posts differ from the first to the last and how much you are now looking inward, rather than blasting the people trying to help you. 

It sounds that things are looking much more positive for an R, rather than D.

I wish you, your husband and family the best in your journey.

OT


----------



## TDSC60

How did you get involved with AP in the first place?

If all that is explained on SI what is username there?


----------



## peachesncream

TDSC60 said:


> How did you get involved with AP in the first place?
> 
> If all that is explained on SI what is username there?


Facebook. Old friend of the family. Reached out to me online after his father died and ironically after his wife left him for another man. We haven’t seen each other in person since we were kids.


----------



## peachesncream

Oldtimer said:


> I was pretty harsh in my previous post, but remain true to my humble statements. I feel a sense of relief in reading your posts in that you seem to be waking to reality. The OM is a piece of doo doo and a serious manipulator.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is still the issue of your husbands ED to contend with if it’s true ED at all. Perhaps he suffers from low T. He should see a doctor with your support, it’s not easy for a man to deal with this, especially when the one who claims to love him is not there for him.
> 
> I would also suggest that you reread all of the posts with a focus on yours. Try to do this from an outside perspective. Honey, I promise you will see how much your posts differ from the first to the last and how much you are now looking inward, rather than blasting the people trying to help you.
> 
> It sounds that things are looking much more positive for an R, rather than D.
> 
> I wish you, your husband and family the best in your journey.
> 
> OT


Thank you I definitely feel like I’m in a different place. The advice here has been invaluable.


----------



## Marduk

I dunno. In a way I’m more disquieted by knowing that this guy was scum and she knew it.

I mean, the barrier to entry here for this guy was pretty low. It’s common to ‘affair down’ but this is fairly extreme. It could mean he’s on the level she believes she’s on, or that he was easy and she felt above him, or something. Not a shrink. But this worries me.


----------



## peachesncream

Marduk said:


> I dunno. In a way I’m more disquieted by knowing that this guy was scum and she knew it.
> 
> I mean, the barrier to entry here for this guy was pretty low. It’s common to ‘affair down’ but this is fairly extreme. It could mean he’s on the level she believes she’s on, or that he was easy and she felt above him, or something. Not a shrink. But this worries me.


I think it’s pretty clear that I need therapy.


----------



## Bluesclues

peachesncream said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno. In a way I’m more disquieted by knowing that this guy was scum and she knew it.
> 
> I mean, the barrier to entry here for this guy was pretty low. It’s common to ‘affair down’ but this is fairly extreme. It could mean he’s on the level she believes she’s on, or that he was easy and she felt above him, or something. Not a shrink. But this worries me.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it’s pretty clear that I need therapy.
Click to expand...

Don’t get sidetracked with the “caliber” of the OM. Could be because he knew you before you were a wife and mom. Could be you imagined you knew the “real him” before he took wrong paths and in that fairytale he would be perfect had he been with you all along. Waste of energy to pursue the line of questioning at this point. If he was a complete Boy Scout that visits nursing homes in his free time it would be the same outcome, same damage, same work ahead of you.


----------



## Marduk

Bluesclues said:


> Don’t get sidetracked with the “caliber” of the OM. Could be because he knew you before you were a wife and mom. Could be you imagined you knew the “real him” before he took wrong paths and in that fairytale he would be perfect had he been with you all along. Waste of energy to pursue the line of questioning at this point. If he was a complete Boy Scout that visits nursing homes in his free time it would be the same outcome, same damage, same work ahead of you.


I’m more thinking of Peaches’ husband. I mean, one of the things that bugged me when my ex wife cheated on me was that she did it with a low income, out of shape, ugly loser.

While telling me I didn’t make enough and was unattractive. It kind of made me feel even less worthy knowing she picked him over me. 

I’m kinda wondering if it might make her husband feel even worse about what happened - knowing Peaches nuked their marriage over a loser criminal druggie. Plus, it’s not like basically anybody can’t do better than that guy, so that makes every guy a threat. That’s kind of what I’m getting at.


----------



## Music_Man

On topic- it sounds like peaches is starting to get it. Hoping that IC and MC will work for you. Do the work- there are no shortcuts and no miracles that will make this go away. Stay the course.


----------



## TDSC60

PNC.

Your husband is feeling betrayed, emasculated, and confused.

How could the wife he knew and loved do the things you have done? The answer is that she could not do that if she loved him and valued him as a husband.

He is struggling to understand what he wants. He wants the wife he had but he is going to realize that that wife left him almost three years ago. He has to make up his mind if the woman now with him, who looks like the wife he had but is not, is someone he can move forward with. 

Even if you do everything right it will take him years to move past the pain you have inflicted him with. Part of a successful R is for the wayward to empathize with the pain and confusion they have caused their spouse. If you don't feel he is worth years of effort, let him go now and save him that pain.

I told my wife after her EA that I would never trust her like I did before she betrayed me. That she had changed from the woman I loved and married into someone I did not know. Since we had young kids, I was willing to try again but I promised her nothing other than that I would never treat her the way she had treated me during her EA. And if that was not good enough she had better pack her bags and go. She stayed and has earned back much of the lost trust. But for a long time she feared a revenge affair and that I would leave her for another woman. (Never happened). But even that showed me that she had no idea of who I was.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Marduk said:


> I’m more thinking of Peaches’ husband. I mean, one of the things that bugged me when my ex wife cheated on me was that she did it with a low income, out of shape, ugly loser.
> 
> While telling me I didn’t make enough and was unattractive. It kind of made me feel even less worthy knowing she picked him over me.
> 
> I’m kinda wondering if it might make her husband feel even worse about what happened - knowing Peaches nuked their marriage over a loser criminal druggie. Plus, it’s not like basically anybody can’t do better than that guy, so that makes every guy a threat. That’s kind of what I’m getting at.


Yeah, that would be the natural emotional reaction.

But if one can pull back and look at it objectively, cheating with such a loser makes it obvious the problem lies entirely with her and she is the one with a serious defect.


----------



## Decorum

"Affairing down", is common enough that it's cliche. 
Seems like several possible reasons. Some already mentioned.

1 Bad boy attraction.
2 low self esteem (all I deserve).
3 Easy access (I'm a prize for him).
4 Controllable (I wont fall in love with him).
5 Existing history (Instant familiarity and emotional bond).
6 Safe (He lives far away, it's just electronic, its just a fantasy).
7 You were saving him from himself, made you feel needed.
I'm sure there are more, I may add a few later if I can think of any.

Peaches please dont feel like I'm putting you down here, but to Marduk's point, your husband could have one of several reactions to the reason, from more loss of respect, to more insecurities. 

I think the point is that you chose an easy, safe object to stimulate your emotional/romantic center. It was a real person so more of an emotional connection like a soap opera rather than porn, and it is more a reflection of your poorly addressing your neediness, than of your husbands inadequacies. 

I'm just trying to anticipate a more helpful answer for your husband.

If in the course of therapy or contemplation you drill down and can be more specific here, we may be able to suggest a more constructive answer for your husband later on.

As far as ED, I hope your husband gets a Comprehensive Health Test Panel done.
Low T, Diabetes, Heart failure are only a few potential factors. Unfortunately I have been through this myself. 

Stay strong, you will not regret whatever it takes.


----------



## Lila

Moderator note:

I have yet again cleaned up another thread jack. You all want to discuss the psychology of affairs, then by all means * start another thread on the topic*.


----------



## sokillme

I feel who your affair partner is will be very hard for you husband to overcome. 

OP are you sure you love your husband? Again like my post before, why do you think you love your husband. What does that mean to you when you say that?


----------



## gr8ful1

Sorry for the threadjack....

Great to see you’re still kickin @bobert! Hope you’re well

/threadjack


----------



## Wolfman1968

OP:

Earlier you had expressed concerns about how harsh posters have been with you.

I urge you to think about @Affaircare's posts, not only in this thread, but in other threads. As she has fully admitted that she was the one who was unfaithful in her marriage, her perspective may be more meaningful for you.


----------



## peacem

Such drama queens....

OP. As someone who has been on the receiving end of what you have done I'll give you some good advice based on you having no children and assumingly financially independent. 

Stop the hand-wringing and self-flagellation. What purpose does that serve? You know what you have done, he knows what you have done. Let him heal in his own way. As for you...time to give him the quickest, cheapest, easiest divorce in history. Your marriage was long since dysfunctional and has now withered to a rather ugly end. Let him move on to find happiness with someone else. I think it would be healthy for you to go a long time single, do not rush to find someone else who you hope will fill a void that you have within you. Discover how to make yourself happy with life, when the chips are down how to make positive choices with respect for yourself - then when you do meet someone in the future you will know how to channel your emotions in a healthier manner. 

Move on and learn from what you have done whilst you are still young. You only have one life to live and you are still a work in progress x


----------



## peacem

Also as a side note to anyone here struggling with the impact of infidelity I highly recommend reading Samuel Pepys Diary.

He was notoriously unfaithful to his long-suffering wife, but he explains his thought processes and mindset perfectly. He was actually full of self hatred, acute anxiety and from a terribly dysfunctional family of origin. He truly loved his wife deeply and had a weird lust/disgust/addiction to his mistresses. Flattering and fawning one minute, full of disgust for them the next. He was a walking paradox and was perpetually dissatisfied with life. He is not a likeable person, but he wrote about the dark side of humanity very well, not just from a sexual point of view, but selfishness, violence, greed and entitlement. He also demonstrated wonderful acts of compassion and kindness with great humility and vulnerability. 

I found it very healing.


----------



## rugswept

It sounds like BH just won't get over this. There's a lot to get over. 

The only difference between this very long term affair and a full up sexual affair is that they weren't in the same room. 
There was extreme sexual exchange and obviously both had sexual climaxes as a result. 
The most intimate of things were exchanged, many times, over years. This was a lifestyle and alternate life. 
The marriage had suffered long term deterioration. I suspect most of it was due to this remote sexual affair. 

Give BH time and forget showering him with piles of love bombs, etc. That will come across as more fake than the tooth fairy. 
Be very prepared for the fact that he probably won't get past all this.


----------



## peachesncream

sokillme said:


> I feel who your affair partner is will be very hard for you husband to overcome.
> 
> OP are you sure you love your husband? Again like my post before, why do you think you love your husband. What does that mean to you when you say that?


I feel like I love my husband. We have been together since I was 15 years old. There is no giddy spark left but isnt that normal? We were happy back in 2015 and before most of the time. We had a satisfying sex life and I felt close to him. Can we get back those feelings with work and commitment? Should I really just accept that it’s over after 18 years and 4 kids? Part of me is saying that some of you are right. Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


----------



## Numb26

peachesncream said:


> Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


I just read through your thread again. Just remember, you did this and yet you are making this about you again. He may not ever love you the same way again and that is his right. Are you prepared to fight to get that love back or are you going to realize that it may never be that way again? I am in your BH shoes, and I can tell you that nothing my STBXW could have done would have ever brought me back. You should let him go and spend all your energy on making yourself a better person, a good mother and a good ex.


----------



## peachesncream

Numb26 said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?
> 
> 
> 
> I just read through your thread again. Just remember, you did this and yet you are making this about you again. He may not ever love you the same way again and that is his right. Are you prepared to fight to get that love back or are you going to realize that it may never be that way again? I am in your BH shoes, and I can tell you that nothing my STBXW could have done would have ever brought me back. You should let him go and spend all your energy on making yourself a better person, a good mother and a good ex.
Click to expand...

Im really not trying to make this about me. I know I did this. But I’m still a human. A flawed human. I am willing to fight. But if he will never love me the same what’s the point? Has anyone ever really moved last this. Is there no hope? Is there no difference since I didn’t cross a physical line? Im not trying to minimize I am trying to understand.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> I feel like I love my husband. We have been together since I was 15 years old. There is no giddy spark left but isnt that normal? We were happy back in 2015 and before most of the time. We had a satisfying sex life and I felt close to him. Can we get back those feelings with work and commitment? Should I really just accept that it’s over after 18 years and 4 kids? Part of me is saying that some of you are right. Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


Me, me, me...

If you loved him you’d want the best for him, not the best for yourself.


----------



## Numb26

Even if R happens it will NEVER be the same as it was, that is the reality of the situation. You have to decide if that is something you can live with.

In my case, my STBXW had a PA and I dropped her faster then she thought I would but I can say that in my opinion an EA is so much worse. If my ex would have been up front and admitted what she did there might have been a chance to come back from her PA. If she would have had an EA there would not have even been an option for R.


----------



## Marduk

peachesncream said:


> Im really not trying to make this about me. I know I did this. But I’m still a human. A flawed human. I am willing to fight. But if he will never love me the same what’s the point? Has anyone ever really moved last this. Is there no hope? Is there no difference since I didn’t cross a physical line? Im not trying to minimize I am trying to understand.


I can only speak for myself. My wife had an actual EA that was neither sexual nor romantic - but the lying means that I will never trust her the same way again. 

We have moved passed it, but that will never change. Even if we’ve made peace with it.

In the end, it’s the lies that kill the relationship.


----------



## TDSC60

peachesncream said:


> Im really not trying to make this about me. I know I did this. But I’m still a human. A flawed human. I am willing to fight. But if he will never love me the same what’s the point? Has anyone ever really moved last this. Is there no hope? Is there no difference since I didn’t cross a physical line? Im not trying to minimize I am trying to understand.


There is hope that you can make a new marriage with your husband and be happy.

After my wife had an EA with a guy from her gym. I decided to stay married. It took years for me to believe she loved me. But she was remorseful about what she had done and cried over the pain she had caused me. Her big excuse was that she did not feel loved and the OM showed her attention and complimented her. She felt our marriage was stale. I reminded her that I was in the same marriage she was and I never sought validation from another woman. That woke her up.

We are now relatively healed and still married. Lots of boundaries were agreed upon by both of us to help affair proof our marriage.

In the beginning I stayed for the kids. I finally saw the remorse and regret I needed to see from her. That is when the healing started.


----------



## BluesPower

Numb26 said:


> I just read through your thread again. Just remember, you did this and yet you are making this about you again. He may not ever love you the same way again and that is his right. Are you prepared to fight to get that love back or are you going to realize that it may never be that way again? I am in your BH shoes, and I can tell you that nothing my STBXW could have done would have ever brought me back. You should let him go and spend all your energy on making yourself a better person, a good mother and a good ex.





peachesncream said:


> Im really not trying to make this about me. I know I did this. But I’m still a human. A flawed human. I am willing to fight. But if he will never love me the same what’s the point? Has anyone ever really moved last this. Is there no hope? Is there no difference since I didn’t cross a physical line? Im not trying to minimize I am trying to understand.


Here is the thing. Now I am not saying that that you are making it all about you, but I am saying that you are more worried about YOU than you should be. 

For a lot of people, and Emotional affair, and a physical affair are not much different. I think your husband feels this way. And he is allowed to. 

What I mean about YOU thinking about YOU is this: You may do all the work and years down the road, one year, two years, whatever, your H may decide that he just does not want this marriage because of YOUR cheating. 

So you have to do the work, help him heal in every way that you can, and love him with all your heart, and it still may not work out. Can you do that? 

But then again, IT MAY WORK OUT...


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> I feel like I love my husband. We have been together since I was 15 years old. There is no giddy spark left but isnt that normal? We were happy back in 2015 and before most of the time. We had a satisfying sex life and I felt close to him. Can we get back those feelings with work and commitment? Should I really just accept that it’s over after 18 years and 4 kids? Part of me is saying that some of you are right. Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


The spark? Oh yes, it can come back. It takes some work. Think back to the days of dating when the spark was alive and well. Now think what you both have stopped doing since then that allowed the spark to sputter out. My W and I got into the same rut. We worked to get the spark going again. Date nights, show of appreciation, notes to each other, etc. The spark became a flame. Then a fire. We have been married 26 year come next April. 

Will you BH love you again? Quite possibly yes. It will be hard to get around the lies/deception. The trust will need to be earned once again. Understand it may take 4-5 years to get to a place were you both are happy. There is only one way to find out....dig in and do the work.


----------



## Yeswecan

peachesncream said:


> Im really not trying to make this about me. I know I did this. But I’m still a human. A flawed human. I am willing to fight. But if he will never love me the same what’s the point? Has anyone ever really moved last this. Is there no hope? *Is there no difference since I didn’t cross a physical line?* Im not trying to minimize I am trying to understand.


For some, the cross the no physical makes a difference. Everyone is different. I believe for many if not all it is the lies, deception and doing it with a straight face. Trust. Once lost may never be found again.

Building trust again? Tell your BH ever step you make, where you are and actually be there where you say you are! Seems childish but understand your BH has looked at a trusted person for the past 2.5 years who was withholding and lying.


----------



## Stormguy2018

Numb26 said:


> Even if R happens it will NEVER be the same as it was, that is the reality of the situation. You have to decide if that is something you can live with.
> 
> In my case, my STBXW had a PA and I dropped her faster then she thought I would but I can say that in my opinion an EA is so much worse. If my ex would have been up front and admitted what she did there might have been a chance to come back from her PA. If she would have had an EA there would not have even been an option for R.


This!


----------



## Decorum

Peaches, 
I hope you do not give up, and I will tell you why.

Firstly, If you both try to work at it but eventually realize it is not going to work, you will both have helped the other person to heal some, and both have had more time to process it.

Dont attempt it without help, and personal reading, both of you.

If you think you might fall to this again then you would leave him more broken. This kind of goes without saying, I realize.

The fact that your husband wants to try is significant. 
If you are willing then frankly I think it deserves a shot.

Cheating changes things. It changed you, it changed your husband, it changed your marriage. 

You must accept that. It is a well worn phrase around here, but for good reason, "The old marriage is dead, you must start a new relationship and a new marriage based on that."

You may both find that your relationship and marriage are the most precious thing in life, even though it has changed.

Peaches, I just think it is too soon to make that call, and don't make it for him. If you want out fine, but I think your original posture of waiting on him to sort out what he want in order to see if you both want the same thing was the correct one.

I really wish you both well.
Take care!


----------



## Marduk

I think until she gets to the bedrock as to why she allowed this affair to happen, happen for so long, and yet to be so clearly virtue signalling prior to the affair that she would never do this as late as 2015...

Until she can do these things, I don’t think she can say with confidence that she won’t do this again. With this guy, or some other guy. 

She’ll be quite firm in her mind right now that she won’t, but this is based solely on fear, and fear wears off especially if he is working to reconcile. 

The fact that it would still be going on unless she had gotten caught in my mind is a key indicator that she is not ready to guard her own boundaries and integrity long term.

If her husband were here, I would not be advising that he seek reconciliation, at least yet.


----------



## jsmart

Many WWs have a hard time coming down from the excitement of sneaking around being bad. For the past few years you were completely on team OM and even wanted to break up your family to be with him. So it's no surprise that you don't have any giddy feelings for your husband. The OM offered titillating ego kibbles while your BH was just the father of your 4 kids and the rock you took for granted. 

It will take you going through withdrawal from your soulmate for your appreciation for your BH to come back. The issue is will you both have the patience to go through this struggle. Many BHs find it's a hard pill to swallow; having to work to win the affections of a woman who gave herself to another man.

That doesn't mean it's not possible to R. Your husband is reeling from what you've done to him and will go back an forth on what he wants to do. One saving grace for you is that you didn't actually physically consummate the affair. I know you had plans to get together and that you did it virtually but for a lot of men the fact that OM didn't actually have you is a big thing.


----------



## Decorum

Marduk said:


> I think until she gets to the bedrock as to why she allowed this affair to happen, happen for so long, and yet to be so clearly virtue signalling prior to the affair that she would never do this as late as 2015...




I think you cannot minimize the impact of burning down your life, your marriage, your loved one, for something of such little actual value to you.

People often realize too late what a poor transaction they have made by trading everything of value for a fantasy. 

I think she has had that, "what have I done", moment, and it is worth years of therapy if a person finds remorsefulness in it.

I think many people cheat one time and realize what a poor choice it was, and never repeat it

If a person can bear the pain, by being remorseful and taking responsibility, then I think they can find the grace to be loyal. 

I do think the grief, ED. and breakdown of intimacy, combined with the entitlement that can come with selfishness is explanation enough. 

I am not sure there is much deeper to go.
I think recognizing the consequences and working to mend them is the best therapy, and path to self-awareness.

Regards.


----------



## Marduk

Fair comments @Decorum.

My point is solely to think rationally about causes and conditions for the affair and to encourage her to show up with integrity: which is to say that until she can accurately say why she allowed the affair to happen, go on so long, and to be so against cheating before it happened then she can’t really say why she won’t cheat again.

She can say instead that she doesn’t intend to cheat again, perhaps. But being intellectually honest, I don’t think she can say that he is safe staying with her quite yet.

If I were her husband and she were to swear to me that she wouldn’t ever cheat on me again, I’d know that without doing the work she couldn’t actually say that, and I’d feel even more lied to as a consequence.

And putting myself back in my own shoes, my cold read on this situation is that she’s probably at the high risk end of those that are likely to cheat again. I mean, you see the rationalization already happening: why bother reconciling if I won’t be happy with him anyway?

The next link in that chain could very well be “I’m never going to be happy anyway, why not text AP again?” Or, “I’m self destructive anyway, I wonder what AP is doing right now?” Especially when the fear wears off, which is really probably her only motivator right now.

None of it yet is about acting with integrity, providing safety and vulnerability so that emotional intimacy can return, and looking out for her husband before she looks out for herself.


----------



## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> I feel like I love my husband. We have been together since I was 15 years old. There is no giddy spark left but isnt that normal? We were happy back in 2015 and before most of the time. We had a satisfying sex life and I felt close to him. Can we get back those feelings with work and commitment? Should I really just accept that it’s over after 18 years and 4 kids? Part of me is saying that some of you are right. Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same. Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


This post and your last one on SI don't leave me feeling encouraged for you or your husband. At the very least it shows you are still very much in a cheaters mindset. Even now your feelings are on yourself. Your husband is bleeding out from the gunshot wound in his heart (that you gave him!) and you are doing the equivalent of saying, well is it worth it to even try to fix this, I mean maybe we won't be able to do all the fun stuff we used to do. 

This is kind of why I wonder if you love him or if you really know what love is. If you loved him your thoughts would be about how you can heal him and trying to make restitution. It really shouldn't be about you in any way yet, which means it can't even be about the marriage. The marriage is half about you.

The fact that your first thoughts right now when your husband is crushed is about how your life is going to go on in the future just shows a very selfish side of yourself. I mean come on lady, you had phone sex with some stranger sending porno pictures for over a year. Your husband who has been with you all of your adult life found out and is crushed and you are wondering after a few months is it worth even bothering? Honestly if you think that then it's not, at least not for him. He can do better. And YOU must do better. 

Again I am sorry that is harsh but think about what your saying here? Again your husband deserves better then you staying out of guilt. 

Unfortunately I think you fall into a pattern of what a lot of people who are in long term relationships that start in their teens do. I think you think of your husband and his love for you like you would of a parent love is in a way. Unconditional and not needed to be earned. This makes sense when the dynamic is a parent to a child where most of the effort is one-sided and it needs to be because of the vulnerabilities of a child and the responsibilities of a parent. But he is not your parent and his love is very much earned, as it should be, and I have to tell you the next guy you meet now as an adult is absolutely going to think the same way. The days of having someone love you in an unconditional way are over. 

Love is not the feeling of desperately wanting to be with someone. It's also not about what you can get out of it. Love is a gift you give to someone. It's about you giving not receiving, but it should also still be earned. It should be cherished and always active. If you can't be these things for him then he can do better. This in the long run is probably why he is telling you it's over. He can sense that for you it's not about love, it's about wondering if it's worth it, or because you are unsure having a little excitement on the side. Really who would want to commit to that. 

It's time for you to mature, not even for him for you.


----------



## drifting on

PnC

I find it difficult to write the words that need to be written. To some extent I think you have realized some hard truths, then I find that you are clueless about so many more. You have mentioned that you made a mistake, but the truth is you made a choice. Reading your calling this affair a mistake is truly gut wrenching, and if your husband heard it, I can assure you he felt that rather harshly. You see peaches, how would you feel if your husband did this and said it was a mistake? What would you think of your marriage, love? How would you feel if he threw everything away and said it was a mistake? You first need to realize it was a choice, a choice to respond, a choice to keep responding, and a choice to lie. 

You seem to be making much of this about you yourself, it is, and also about what you’ve done. Maybe your focus should shift to your husband, finding out he feels, finding out the extent of the damage. Obviously you know it’s bad, you know he’s destroyed, but he needs whatever he asks of you, no matter how difficult for you. Questions will be asked, answer truthfully, give the entire truth and not just bits and pieces. 

This next part is going to be a tad rough, I’m not beating up on you, but you almost seem sorry you were caught. I may have missed how you got caught, so please share how your husband found out. Also, exactly how long have you been communicating with this person? Deception is a cancer that will eat away at your husband. Your husbands love will be different, as will your love, and your marriage will change should you be given the gift of reconciliation. You have to know that everything will change, everything will be different, so a marriage can be built on a solid foundation. You killed the marriage peaches, if given reconciliation, you will soon realize the difficulty of this endeavor. I wish you luck, but I don’t think you are reconciliation material at this point, and certainly your husband isn’t either. Both of you need time to become healthier to make this decision.


----------



## Tilted 1

Yup, l knew it would be a friend of the family, and the fun you were willing to do isn't remarkable. Just selfish and self-indulgent in the way of acting like the homewrecker handbook. Just divorce your husband and take nothing but the clothes you own.

As a wounded person know hurt and pain, are emotions you really don't have. Leave the house help plan for his family to come and help him for awhile. And leave everything you need to understand to save your marriage is non-existent. Just leave l don't think you have it in you to be a safe spouse. Or faithful one. 

I'm not cruel, but after all the advice given it's only you, that you are worried about. You can not see the trees in the forest. You show only concern for your desires. Nothing more, spare you husband, your future resentment, and hostile treatment because nothing will make you happy. Tell him to have a happy life, because you are so self centered and nothing he your H could give you to please you. Leave him everything. And walk away forever. 

Best wishes 

Tilted


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

RebuildingMe said:


> “Married at 17” says all I need to know about how this would end up.


Quoted for TRUTH.

I'm amazed the OP and her husband made it to 18 years.

OP, you may need to face the fact that this is a deal-breaker for your husband and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

And let's not kid ourselves here. This nasty little business between you and your 'friend' for the last 2 1/2 years would* still *be going on to this DAY had your husband not found out about it, so it's obvious you have absolutely zero remorse for what you did. You're just running scared because your life has been turned upside down and you're now going to have to pay the price for your foolishness.

If you're not working and are financially dependent on him, I'd be working on updating up my resume and finding myself some gainful full-time employment *ASAP*.


----------



## samyeagar

With my XWW, sure, I imagine that at some point we might have been able to reconcile and move past it maybe. Unlikely, but who knows. What it boiled down to for me was the fact that with so many other choices of fantastic women out there without her major flaws, she just simply was not worth the effort it would take on both our parts to make even a serviceable marriage again, let alone a good one.


----------



## Stormguy2018

Don't be surprised if we don't hear anything more from P&C.


----------



## Gabriel

Numb26 said:


> Even if R happens it will NEVER be the same as it was, that is the reality of the situation. You have to decide if that is something you can live with.
> 
> In my case, my STBXW had a PA and I dropped her faster then she thought I would but I can say that in my opinion an EA is so much worse. If my ex would have been up front and admitted what she did there might have been a chance to come back from her PA. If she would have had an EA there would not have even been an option for R.


This is tough to read. And it's not the first time I've heard it. I think it justifies how hard it was for me to recover from "just an EA". I think an EA to some is more recoverable because you can change your feelings, whereas with a PA, what's done is done. You can't ever un-f*** somebody. 

And there is no way you can pre-decide how you will react to either. I used to think you could make up your mind about that before it happens, but you can't.


----------



## peachesncream

Stormguy2018 said:


> Don't be surprised if we don't hear anything more from P&C.


Ive read the harsh responses and took them to heart. I can see where I sounded selfish. My husband went to IC yesterday and we have a MC session scheduled. He says he still loves me. I guess we will see what happens. I am trying to focus on being a better person and a supportive wife. The chips will fall where they may. I definitely think its worth the fight after 18 years and 4 kids. 

No I am not financially dependent on him. I could easily support myself. My heart is broken for what I’ve done. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.


----------



## Tilted 1

peachesncream said:


> Ive read the harsh responses and took them to heart. I can see where I sounded selfish. My husband went to IC yesterday and we have a MC session scheduled. He says he still loves me. I guess we will see what happens. I am trying to focus on being a better person and a supportive wife. The chips will fall where they may. I definitely think its worth the fight after 18 years and 4 kids.
> 
> No I am not financially dependent on him. I could easily support myself. My heart is broken for what I’ve done. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.


Sorry, what you think as of harsh, in fact is your husband's reality. And one doesn't focus on being a better person. You are or you are not. His love? I question that maybe it's just to stop your, self centered behavior.


----------



## peachesncream

Tilted 1 said:


> peachesncream said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ive read the harsh responses and took them to heart. I can see where I sounded selfish. My husband went to IC yesterday and we have a MC session scheduled. He says he still loves me. I guess we will see what happens. I am trying to focus on being a better person and a supportive wife. The chips will fall where they may. I definitely think its worth the fight after 18 years and 4 kids.
> 
> No I am not financially dependent on him. I could easily support myself. My heart is broken for what I’ve done. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, what you think as of harsh, in fact is your husband's reality. And one doesn't focus on being a better person. You are or you are not. His love? I question that maybe it's just to stop your, self centered behavior.
Click to expand...

Lol ok. And you are helping and giving advice in what way?


----------



## RebuildingMe

For you and your husband to be entering MC a week or so after dday is a flat out mistake. The MC will turn to all the things he didn’t do as a husband real quick, without the fallout from the A being processed. It will certainly delay any recovery efforts.


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## wilson

There are layers of issues which will need to be worked on. Back at the beginning you said things had been cooling off for years. That alone can be very difficult to fix and often ends up to be a marriage killer. Tack on the EA and it's going to be way harder to work things out. You'll need to work through all the EA fallout and rebuild the emotional connection. It can be done, but realize that it's going to be years of difficult work to accomplish. And even then, it won't really be forgotten. Whenever there's a stressful time, it will be easy for all these troubles to bubble up again. It's something you guys will have to continually work through.

How old are your kids? You don't want to just throw away 18 years and split up the home of 4 kids, but sometimes that's actually the best thing. If you stay together, it's not likely cupid's arrow will strike again. The more likely scenario is that you both will be trying to work through things for a long time. Will you guys be able to get along well enough to be good parents? Will the kids think their home is a happy and healthy place for them to grow up? To work this out, you guys are going to have to become expert communicators to positively work through the issues you're facing. Do you think that's who you are or can become?


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## sokillme

peachesncream said:


> Ive read the harsh responses and took them to heart. I can see where I sounded selfish. My husband went to IC yesterday and we have a MC session scheduled. He says he still loves me. I guess we will see what happens. I am trying to focus on being a better person and a supportive wife. The chips will fall where they may. I definitely think its worth the fight after 18 years and 4 kids.
> 
> No I am not financially dependent on him. I could easily support myself. My heart is broken for what I’ve done. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.


Can you tell me what you expect to accomplish by going to marriage counseling right now? I ask because often times it turns into just another instance of the BS being crapped on. Especially if the MC blames your affair on him not being a good enough spouse. First of all that is bull**** but that may also be the death blow to any hope. It's kind of like kicking a wounded animal it just may kill it. 

I am not saying there were not problems in your marriage but you don't negotiate trade routes in a boarder depute after you just bombed the country you are negotiating with to kingdom come. 

Besides like I said before you need to figure out why your outlet for what you were feeling was to have 2 1/2 years of intimacy with someone you hardly knew to begin with. In a relationship which was so far from real. I mean think about it rationally, how could you know this man you were never even with him in person. It was a big performance you were both give each other. How could you think you loved him. You didn't even know if he smelled or not, if he was taller then you. If he really looked like his 2D picture instead of real life. How he talked when he wasn't on the phone. (Now this is all subject to you telling the truth about it all being media based). Really coming to terms with this type of magic thinking that was your MO and a huge part of your life for over 2 years is going to take some time. That should be your primary focus. 

The other thing is after you figure out why you did it, then you will know if that reason has anything to do with your marriage. Maybe it won't but if it does then the question is is that need a reasonable expectation to have of marriage. When you are healthier you may find that actually he did try to fulfill this but you were not healthy enough to receive it. Now even if he didn't provide you with a reasonable expectation, the way you went about solving that, by having an affair is your problem and yours alone. Now after all that, once you get that and you are safe and he feels safe, then it's time to talk and work on that. But by then hopefully for you he has decided to stay and is healed enough to accommodate you. 

I really think the marriage counseling is a mistake at this moment and may actually hurt your chances of recovery. If you don't believe me ask your friends at SI, they are all WS see if they agree with me. Particularly you should ask Hikingout her thoughts.

I get the distinct impression is the MC is because you feel you need a better marriage to want to stay in it, again kind of a hard take to have after what has happened.


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## Marduk

What is it that you want to get out of MC? It might help if you have a bit of a plan here beyond just reconciling. Perhaps you do.

Some of us have been through the whole MC deal a few times. Happy to help if you want some advice there. 

But I would start that by asking why you want to reconcile, and what you want for your husband.


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## Openminded

If your husband decides to R, be prepared that it can take years to rebuild. The easiest part of the process is the decision to R. The rest is very hard work and it's full of ups and downs and triggers that come out of nowhere. He may want to talk about it constantly or he may not. You will need to do what he requires in order for him to heal. Even if he commits to try, it still may end at six months or a year or five years or some other point. You never know. If he decides he wants to remain married, you will need to work as hard as you can to rebuild and show him every day how thankful you are to be given the gift of R. Some people make it and some don't. If he agrees to try, the burden's going to fall on you to prove you deserve another chance. If you get it, don't take him or your marriage for granted going forward. It could all be gone in the blink of an eye (as you now know).


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## wilson

An unconventional way to get back on track before trying MC is to go away together someplace quiet and contemplative. I was putting myself in your H's position and thinking about what would work for me. For example, go to a quiet beach, remote cabin, houseboat on the lake, etc. In my case, it would be going somewhere where we could do daily hikes in the high mountains. Something like that gives you plenty of time to just be with each other and be able to have conversations naturally. When you don't feel like talking, you can quietly think while you enjoy the view. Do not make it about romance. In fact, I would recommend getting a place that has separate bedrooms. If things work out, great!, but that's not the goal. The goal is to spend significant time together in a relaxing one-on-one environment that will give you both a lot of time to discuss things and figure out where you want to go from here.

The fact that you got married so young and had kids probably means you don't really know who each other are anymore. Who you were at 17 is very different from who you are at 35. And you were probably so busy with the kids that you each haven't had time to really get to know the 35-year-old you're each married to. Spending some time just you two together will give you a chance to see if the other person is who you really want to spend your life with. At 17 I'm sure you felt like you were perfect partners. You should see if that's still the case.


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## peachesncream

RebuildingMe said:


> For you and your husband to be entering MC a week or so after dday is a flat out mistake. The MC will turn to all the things he didn’t do as a husband real quick, without the fallout from the A being processed. It will certainly delay any recovery efforts.


My husband wants to go. I suggested waiting and it upset him. He felt like I just didn’t want to discuss what happened in front of anyone. So, I agreed.


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## The Middleman

peachesncream said:


> My husband wants to go. I suggested waiting and it upset him. He felt like I just didn’t want to discuss what happened in front of anyone. So, I agreed.


I think it’s OK to go to MC now, but do your husband a favor. If the MC trys to focus on your BH’s faults in the marriage as a reason for the affair, stop him/her cold, and tell him/her that the approach is not acceptable to either one of you. You take the lead on that, it will go a long way.


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## Casual Observer

peachesncream said:


> My husband wants to go. I suggested waiting and it upset him. He felt like I just didn’t want to discuss what happened in front of anyone. So, I agreed.


If it's his idea, I think that's fine. I would ask him, though, if this is really his best idea and he's doing it for himself, because he doesn't owe it to you. 



The Middleman said:


> I think it’s OK to go to MC now, but do your husband a favor. If the MC trys to focus on your BH’s faults in the marriage as a reason for the affair, stop him/her cold, and tell him/her that the approach is not acceptable to either one of you. You take the lead on that, it will go a long way.


Agreed 100x over. MC has a screwy way of dealing with dead-wrong things. It tends to try and minimize through compromise, and some things, like one party having an affair, are absolutes. Contributory factors really aren't relevant. You didn't cheat because of something he did. You cheated because of a decision you made.


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## [email protected]

Peachesncream, you voice concern about when or if you will be loved. Significantly though, your concern about when your BH will be loved is missing. Note that on TAM and SI, there are a myriad of WWs who strive to help the BH feel loved and to heal. You are AWOL in that regard. That's right: It's all about me!!


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## TDSC60

peachesncream said:


> *I feel like I love my husband. *We have been together since I was 15 years old. There is no giddy spark left but isnt that normal? We were happy back in 2015 and before most of the time. We had a satisfying sex life and I felt close to him. Can we get back those feelings with work and commitment? Should I really just accept that it’s over after 18 years and 4 kids? Part of me is saying that some of you are right. *Even if I fight like hell he will never love me the same.* Is that what I want for the rest of my life? Someone that doesn’t truly love me?


Sounds like he loves you about the same as you love him at the moment. But I say he loves you more since he is still there and talking about the marriage.

I think you were infatuated with him when you met him, but never truly loved him. You settled for him. That is why you so easily had the affair.

You planned to travel and spend time with your AP before your husband caught you, did you not? You were eager to try out your "new love". Your husband is dealing with being thrown on the trash heap and discarded in favor of OM. The wife he loved threw him away with no regret for almost 3 years. Can you give him three years of being a good and faithful wife if he asks for R? Can you commit to that long to allow him to recover from the wounds you have inflicted?


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## MattMatt

Please keep us updated on the MC.


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## frusdil

TJW said:


> *The other fact is, that humans, including your husband, cannot forgive unless that forgiveness is "driven" by a relationship with God. Without God's help, none of us ever forgive others.*


I'm sorry, but this is absolute bollocks.


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## ConanHub

peachesncream said:


> My husband wants to go. I suggested waiting and it upset him. He felt like I just didn’t want to discuss what happened in front of anyone. So, I agreed.


This seems positive and good news for you since you want to heal your marriage.


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## drifting on

PnC

Be wary of MC at this point, by that I mean to find a therapist that challenges BOTH of you and experience in infidelity. Finding the wrong therapist will just be another nail in the marriage coffin. 

From your posts you spoke if the marriage could ever be the same, the answer is no. Realize your marriage is dead, from here you will need to build again. Love also happens to come in many shapes and sizes, even had I divorced I would still love my wife. My wife will hold a part of my heart forever, but it would be the same as your first kiss. That person whom gave you your first kiss will remain with you forever, but that doesn’t mean you want to be married or with that person years later. 

You have some hard work to do, I question if you have what it takes or even the stamina. It’s a marathon and not a sprint, results come slow at best. I’m not being harsh on you, I’m telling you that this is just the beginning and harsh hasn’t even showed herself yet. Trust that my words will be true, this roller coaster you and your husband just embarked on isn’t even close to the top of the first hill. In fact I would say it still boarding at this time. If you make the first six months of reconciliation you’ll see what I mean. 

I’m not trying to discourage you with reconciliation, instead I’m trying to prepare you as others here did for me. Best of luck.


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## syhoybenden

You did not have an affair because your marital relationship was cooling off.

Your marital relationship was cooling off because you were having an affair.


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## Marduk

syhoybenden said:


> You did not have an affair because your marital relationship was cooling off.
> 
> Your marital relationship was cooling off because you were having an affair.


Fair warning, most MCs get this wrong. 

I’ve only ever found one that got it right.


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## Casual Observer

Marduk said:


> Fair warning, most MCs get this wrong.
> 
> I’ve only ever found one that got it right.


If I were to ever have an affair (which I won't), how do I make sure I understand all the rules and requirements for why I'm having it? What happens if I get it wrong?


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## Marduk

Casual Observer said:


> If I were to ever have an affair (which I won't), how do I make sure I understand all the rules and requirements for why I'm having it? What happens if I get it wrong?


My point is that most MCs in my experience jump at “I was missing X from the relationship so that’s why I was open to cheating” as such an easy answer.

When in my experience it’s far more often “I wanted to have an affair so I retroactively created X” or “I was fine with X until I wanted to cheat and then X became a very big deal to rationalize the affair.”

Let me give you a couple of examples.

A buddy’s wife hit on me claiming her husband wouldn’t have sex with her. Turns out she wouldn’t have sex with him, not the other way around, most likely because she was no longer attracted to him, she was bored, or she had already started cheating with other guys and that’s where her sexual energy was going. If they had gone to MC, I’m sure that would have taken months detangling, and most likely he would have walked away from the experience thinking he had pushed her away somehow. At any rate, she continued to use the sexless marriage as an excuse to anyone that would listen.

In my first marriage, it was totally sexless for much of the last year. And even when we did, it was bad. She was suddenly not interested, I was suddenly unattractive, I suddenly didn’t make nearly enough money, and I suddenly didn’t do nearly enough around the house. So when we were in MC, I worked on all those things, but it just made everything worse - she would just get more and more frustrated. Turns out, she had started cheating right around when everything became sexless. The affair triggered the sexlessness, not the other way around. Yet she very much claimed the opposite - that I had triggered the sexlessness and everything that followed was all my fault. 

Yet another example: a family member cheated on his wife because she was too religious and too cold; yet he very much married her knowing this and wanting this - it only became a problem when a woman started flirting with him and she was very much the opposite. So everything he used to value in his wife now became compared and contrasted with this woman she didn’t know existed - who was very much a free spirit kind of ‘manic pixie dream girl.’ His demands kept getting greater and greater to live a more bohemian lifestyle until the affair was discovered - and his excuse remained that his wife was too fundamental and too closed, and he claimed that made him open to the manic pixie dream girl. And yet it’s quite the opposite that is true - he met the manic pixie dream girl and then started to have problems in his marriage. He remarried... to another hyper religious and fairly closed woman. Go figure.

The basic narrative as I’ve come to understand it is:
1. spouse meets someone attractive for whatever reason.
2. spouse becomes fixated on the person, and starts to consider ‘what if...’ scenarios.
3. spouse starts to reflect on all the things they’ve now decided that they’re not getting from the marriage and starts to project all those things onto the other person.
4. spouse starts to rationalize why they deserve an affair, or it’s not so bad, or it’s not their fault.
5. affair starts and everything’s wonderful.
6. affair is discovered, betrayed partner asks why, and the stuff from 3 & 4 comes out, instead of everything that actually happened before #1, including a lack of personal integrity.


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## Casual Observer

Marduk said:


> The basic narrative as I’ve come to understand it is:
> 1. spouse meets someone attractive for whatever reason.
> 2. spouse becomes fixated on the person, and starts to consider ‘what if...’ scenarios.
> 3. spouse starts to reflect on all the things they’ve now decided that they’re not getting from the marriage and starts to project all those things onto the other person.
> 4. spouse starts to rationalize why they deserve an affair, or it’s not so bad, or it’s not their fault.
> 5. affair starts and everything’s wonderful.
> 6. affair is discovered, betrayed partner asks why, and the stuff from 3 & 4 comes out, instead of everything that actually happened before #1, including a lack of personal integrity.


Interesting to consider there's a lot more prior thought that goes into having an affair than choosing to date someone. Which makes sense doesn't it? Because after all, you've made a "till death do you part" commitment in a marriage. 

Odd question comes from all this. Is it too easy to divorce, or too difficult? The complicating issues are generally going to be kids and finances. Are people whose kids are grown and where each spouse has the resources to hack it on their own... more likely to get divorced because it's "easier?"


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## Lila

Thread is closed. @peachesncream, if you ever return and would like to have the thread re-opened, please contact a moderator.

Discussion about marriage counseling and infidelity moved to https://talkaboutmarriage.com/copin...rital-counseling-infidelity.html#post20009169


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