# Need an outside perspective



## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

I am beyond confused and in desperate need of outside perspective. I will try not to make this too long. 

My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for 6. We are the couple that never should have gotten married in the first place. We love each other but we don't like each other (most of the time). We don't respect each other. Maybe there was a time that we were best friends, lovers, partners in crime, the love of each others lives and turned toward each other instead of away. I say maybe because that was so long ago that I don't even know if it really existed. Either does he, and trust me, we have had many conversations about it over the years. 

We have nothing in common. We don't really do anything together as he likes to go to the bars and out with his friends and I like to do outdoor stuff and I am a home body. He drinks several times a week and smokes pot--I rarely drink and never smoke pot. We both walk on egg shells around each other and we both aren't happy. We constantly bicker and it seems as if we have to have an argument just to make a simple decision. If I could count the hundreds of arguments and conversations we have had about "fixing" our relationship, I would be rich. We say we are going to do xyz and it will improve for a short time, but it never lasts. 

He is verbally abusive when he is angry and has severe mood swings that I find difficult to handle. I catch myself pulling away from him which makes things worse, but I don't know what else to do. We have been to marriage counseling and I have been to individual counseling. 

I believe that marriage is death do us part but when is enough, enough? I struggle with doing what I feel is right (toughing it out or trying to fix something that might not be fixable), and with the idea of divorcing and cutting our losses and "potentially" finding happiness (on both of our parts). He feels that same way. 

On top of all of that, I have always wanted kids and I made that very clear to him when we were dating. A couples years ago, He threw a bomb shell at me that he didn't want kids and probably wouldn't change his mind. I started to question whether or not I could live without having kids. Lately, I believe that I would be ok not having kids, but I can't get this thought out of my mind that a lot of that decision has to do with the fact that I don't want kids with him because I know he wouldn't make a good father. 

I am sad when I think about not having him in my life anymore but I would be lying if the idea also brings a sense of relief. We have our good "moments" but they just seem so few and far. 

Thank you in advance for listening and any feedback.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I think you are at enough. 

Why stay in this hellhole of a marriage? Its not even a marriage. The two of you would be better off divorce.

In this way you can go on and meet someone who will make you happy. You will eventually meet someone and get marry. Then, have those beautiful babies that you want. 

Don't waste time. We are not getting younger. Leave and find your happiness and a new you.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> I think you are at enough.
> 
> Why stay in this hellhole of a marriage? Its not even a marriage. The two of you would be better off divorce.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying that. I feel like such a bad person for even having those thoughts, but I do. The hardest part for me is I want HIM to be that person but he never will. There was a reason why I married him and I do love and care about him, but I also believe that sometimes people should have never been together in the the first place.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

What is your aversion to divorce? I'm glad you don't have children because they add stress to even good marriages most of the time and would only emphasize your issues. He's not ready to grow up. He prefers drinking, smoking and hanging out with his buddies. To be a father would require him to change that. And if you forced him, he'd be angrier and more difficult to be around, only making you AND any potential children unhappy.

You've done your due diligence. Time to go. I also had similar thoughts - I'm not religious but I felt I wasn't a fan of divorce and think most couples can work things out if BOTH people care enough to try. But I got to the point where I had enough. Walking on eggshells is hard on your health - very stressful.

You won't believe the inner peace you'll find if you leave. Really. It's amazing.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

intheory said:


> I think you know what you have to do. *Just re-read your own post.
> *
> Usually TAM members advise you to get counseling; you have done that and it didn't work.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. Yes, I am 28.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> What is your aversion to divorce? I'm glad you don't have children because they add stress to even good marriages most of the time and would only emphasize your issues. He's not ready to grow up. He prefers drinking, smoking and hanging out with his buddies. To be a father would require him to change that. And if you forced him, he'd be angrier and more difficult to be around, only making you AND any potential children unhappy.
> 
> You've done your due diligence. Time to go. I also had similar thoughts - I'm not religious but I felt I wasn't a fan of divorce and think most couples can work things out if BOTH people care enough to try. But I got to the point where I had enough. Walking on eggshells is hard on your health - very stressful.
> 
> You won't believe the inner peace you'll find if you leave. Really. It's amazing.


Thank you. I think my aversion to divorce is because, like most people, I never said my vows "till it doesn't work anymore". The more I analyze our relationship and marriage, the more I realize that it never REALLY worked in the first place. I am the first to admit that marriage in general isn't easy and requires work, BUT, I feel like my marriage goes beyond that. 

I am sooooo glad kids are not in the picture either. I wouldn't want them to live in a household where there isn't constant love and respect and I definitely wouldn't want their father figure to be what it would be. 

I can understand what you mean about the inner peace thing because often times when I think about starting over, I feel this sense of peace about it. I don't have any desire to be with anyone else and if I was to leave, I would take that time to be with myself and find myself again. 

How long were you married? How long have you been divorced? What was the best thing for you after you left? 

Thanks!


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

I do want to say too that we do have good moments which I think makes it so difficult. When he is in the right mood at the right time, we jive and can have a good time with each other. I just feel like things like that should happen more often than not. 

I know that I haven't been the best wife either. There was a time that I pulled away from him sexually and I know that was really hard on him. He has never forgiven me and the past is always in the forefront of his arguments despite my attempts to keep things present. We had problems before any of that happened though but I know it didn't help any. I remember having problems with our relationships before we even got engaged, but I think I figured that was just the normal ebb and flow of relationships or we could somehow figure it out as we go.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

I completely agree with you that sexual rejection is extremely toxic and not good for a relationship. There was a time that I hated myself for ever putting us through that and it was also a very scary time for myself because I had always enjoyed sex and losing my libido and not knowing why, felt like something was wrong with my body. I went through countless tests, counseling, everything to try to find out what was "wrong" with me. 

We have always had intimacy problems in some way or another our entire relationship but the worst was a two year stint where we only had sex about once a month. Our current issue is that we are intimate 2-3 times a week but because of the damage, he doesn't see it and how it has improved because he hasn't and won't forgive me for the past. He told me he would never forgive me for it. 

I don't know exactly what caused it. We were fighting a lot then. He was stressed out from work (which I would later find out, he is just easily stressed out because despite job changes ect, it has never changed). Being stressed out made him cranky ALL the time to the point where a little thing would set him off. He spent a lot of time drinking and would often go to bars with his friends. It was also around the time he started calling me names when he would fight. It started with him calling me princess, a b****h, stupid, worthless which then progressed into thing like c**t and accusing me of sleeping with my father because of our closeness. Hence the hamster wheel him and I have created of the constant pull away, rejection ect. I feel like with both contributed to our intimacy problems, mine for rejection and his for the verbal vomit. 

I don't know if the kid thing is in relation or not. When he brought that up to me, we hadn't been talking about kids nor had we been planning to try or anything. He just one day came to me and said that the older he gets, the more he realizes that he doesn't wanted children. I asked him if he knew why that was and he said no. If our marriage was good and we were both happy, I feel like I would be ok without kids but I don't know if it could ever be "good" to get to that place. we both would be making a horrible decision if we had kids together at this point.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

behappy123 said:


> Thank you. I think my aversion to divorce is because, like most people, I never said my vows "till it doesn't work anymore". The more I analyze our relationship and marriage, the more I realize that it never REALLY worked in the first place. I am the first to admit that marriage in general isn't easy and requires work, BUT, I feel like my marriage goes beyond that.
> 
> I am sooooo glad kids are not in the picture either. I wouldn't want them to live in a household where there isn't constant love and respect and I definitely wouldn't want their father figure to be what it would be.
> 
> ...


I was married 15 years, 1.5 years of separation and I've been single 11. I married at 20.

I, too, lost respect for him. He had a temper and would fly off about unimportant things, had a negative opinion about anyone who didn't agree with him and also smoked pot our entire marriage. I did, too, to avoid the inevitable. I avoided sex but usually gave in to avoid a fight. He was irresponsible with money and couldn't keep a job until he worked for himself. So yes, I lost respect for him as a person, a husband, provider and eventually as a father (our daughter was 4 when I left). Which in turn made it difficult to have sex but again, I would give in to avoid a fight.

I realized I was avoiding everything. Friends, life, confrontation... if I could have just hidden away most of the day I would. Pot let me escape into myself. But finally I just couldn't spend my life not making waves and my daughter was a huge part of that. Kids are kids and she made waves. He would yell at me for not keeping her quiet and yell if she needed attention, he would be mad at her if she interrupted sex by banging on the door and be mad at me for wanting to stop. It seemed my life was a cycle of avoidance and trying to keep things smoothed over as I tippy-toed around him. And name calling REALLY hurts a relationship. I was called all sorts of awful names, too. That really empties the love bucket FAST and takes a LONG time to forget. So there goes a feeling of intimacy needed for... well, intimacy.

The peace - that I could eat something without him critiquing my figure, that I could watch shows on TV that he thought were stupid, or listen to music he didn't like. It was so nice to not be berated for a "filthy" car because I left a balled up napkin on the floorboard, or go out with a friend without an interrogation. Life became so easy and pleasant that I no longer had to tip toe or hide from myself.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
The difference between you two is actually quite simple, one grew up and one did not. If you want any chance of a future then one of two things have to happen, either your H has to grow up or you need to move on. In order for your H to grow up he has to experience a basic shift in his personality. This is highly, highly unlikely. Any hope of having children and him being a good father is very slim so unless your prepared to forgo having children you should strongly consider a new mate.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I was married 15 years, 1.5 years of separation and I've been single 11. I married at 20.
> 
> I, too, lost respect for him. He had a temper and would fly off about unimportant things, had a negative opinion about anyone who didn't agree with him and also smoked pot our entire marriage. I did, too, to avoid the inevitable. I avoided sex but usually gave in to avoid a fight. He was irresponsible with money and couldn't keep a job until he worked for himself. So yes, I lost respect for him as a person, a husband, provider and eventually as a father (our daughter was 4 when I left). Which in turn made it difficult to have sex but again, I would give in to avoid a fight.
> 
> ...


Your first two paragraphs sound so much like mine. I constantly feel like i'm just trying to smooth everything over all the time or cater to his feelings or talk through something that is bugging him and keeping my thoughts and feelings aside to avoid a fight. 

I have to say that he has never critiqued me for my weight, food, looks ect and I have always appreciated that about him. Like I said before, he has such good moments sometimes and sometimes he can be damn right lovable where I couldn't imagine being with anyone else. Sometimes when I feel like he is critiquing or berated me, he says he is "just giving me a hard time". He likes to "joke" a lot but most of his jokes seem to be making fun of something I have said or done. For example, an exact conversation we just had. 

We work together (which is funny because as business people, we do really well together). My laptop died so I asked him to take it with him when he goes home. 

Me: Can you plug this in when you get home?
Him: I'll just bring you your charger
Me: I don't think I'll use it anymore today, but whatever you want to do. 
Him: Well, make up your mind. 
Me: I did make up my mind, I asked for you to take it home with you
Him: Are you sure?
Me: Yes 

Just little things like that, that shouldn't be a big deal in the first place. Its as if he doesn't hear the words coming out of my mouth or simply doesn't like my answer. And I know the above is petty, but it is CONSTANTLY that way.


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## behappy123 (Jan 5, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> The difference between you two is actually quite simple, one grew up and one did not. If you want any chance of a future then one of two things have to happen, either your H has to grow up or you need to move on. In order for your H to grow up he has to experience a basic shift in his personality. This is highly, highly unlikely. Any hope of having children and him being a good father is very slim so unless your prepared to forgo having children you should strongly consider a new mate.


You have a very valid point and thank you. I agree that him having a shift of personality and growing up is going to be highly unlikely. I don't think he is immature by any means. He is a great business person and has been successful, but he constantly talks about how much he doesn't want to work anymore and how stressed out he is and how much he wants to retire (he's 34). Some days he loves our house, cars, all the material items he has wanted and then some days he says it is too much and we shouldn't care so much about that stuff. He is constantly wanting the next best thing in life. Once he has a material item he wanted, then he wants the upgraded version of that. Its exhausting to live with someone who is never happy with the way their life is. He also using alcohol and drugs as a crutch for his stress and how I managed to be with someone who has alcohol problems is beyond me because I said I would never do that. I could live without kids IF him and I were happy, but am I willing to give up something that was once extremely important to me for a mediocre marriage? Thanks for the advice.


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