# So what if...



## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

I have read a lot of posts on "talk about marriage" regarding lack of sex or a spouse that is limited in sexual actions.

I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value. 

So, what if... What if wife says "NO" to certain sexual actions (oral, anal, etc...), but the husband desires to perform those actions? What if the husband that is declined certain sexual acts says "NO" to the daily duties that the other spouse desires (help around the house, pay bills, etc...)? What if each time the wife requests a specific daily duty around the home to be performed...and the spouse says "NO" verbally the same way that the wife says "NO" in bed? What if the husband does the ultimate basics around the home?

Wouldn't that be fair?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

No? Why not? What is good for the goose is good for the gander...right? If one spouse declines what the other wants...then why can't it go both ways?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Well, for one thing, sex is best if both people are into it, in my experience. If they're enjoying what they're doing, and what they're having done to them. Whereas the lawn doesn't really care if the person cutting it is enjoying it.

Plus things like anal and swallowing are off limits to people for whatever reason. Same with role playing, multiple partners, etc... Where does the line get drawn? You won't wash the dishes because your wife won't bring another woman into your bedroom?

My thoughts on goose/gander... Don't ask someone to do something you're not willing to do. If you're going to ask her for anal, you better be willing to take that dildo first. If you want to her to swallow, bring a shot glass to bed next time, and put your money (shot) where your mouth is. If you want to include another partner, be prepared to let her pick one first.

And I'm saying this as a guy, who's currently in a very adventurous relationship.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

PBear...I could probably do all of the things you mentioned...

I wouldn't ask for a threesome (wife wouldn't want it)...so I wouldn't worry about having to take another guy in the bedroom...lol...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

No. If my husband didn't perform oral on me, I wouldn't give him oral. If he didn't want to massage the clit, I wouldn't give him a handjob. Sex acts = sex acts. Dishes do NOT equal blowjobs! It would be more like if he doesn't do dishes, I don't do laundry. If he doesn't take out the trash, I don't vacuum... something like that. You don't get paid sex for doing household chores. They are in completely different brackets. To put them on the same level is ridiculous.


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

From much reading I have discovered that men feel loved through sex. Women often feel loved through listening, hugging, kissing, helping with chores, etc... So, the purpose is not to truly equal sex to chores...it is to take something away from the wife...that she finds as a message of love...just like bland sex/or declining certain acts takes the feeling of love and acceptance away from the husband. Let's take the oral/anal out of the equation. What if the husband simply wants passionate sex, but the wife lays there "like a knot on a log"? Then, would taking away something that she strongly desires be a message or equivalent act?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Clickclick said:


> From much reading I have discovered that men feel loved through sex. Women often feel loved through listening, hugging, kissing, helping with chores, etc... So, the purpose is not to truly equal sex to chores...it is to take something away from the wife...that she finds as a message of love...just like bland sex/or declining certain acts takes the feeling of love and acceptance away from the husband. Let's take the oral/anal out of the equation. *What if the husband simply wants passionate sex, but the wife lays there "like a knot on a log"? Then, would taking away something that she strongly desires be a message or equivalent act?*


I think it would be more advantageous to find out WHY this is happening. And not every man sees sex as the way to show love, just as not every woman sees hugging, kissing, helping with chores, etc as the way to express love. For instance, mine is just about spending quality time together. Doesn't matter what is done. Fortunately, my husband doesn't see taking love away as a viable option to try to get love (or what SOME feel as love). Basically, if the wife is just going through the motions, they need to figure out why. If the husband is just going through the motions, they need to figure out why. This idea of "Well, if you won't give me what I want, then I'm not giving you what you want" could very easily escalate to pushing them further and further away, until they eventually split. And, what if they could have figured it out without all the retaliation? What if they could have learned the cause and dealt with it?


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

I totally agree...but when one spouse has a long list of limitations...and the sexual desires of the other spouse are not met...what do you do? What do you do when the issue has been discussed a million times...with no change? The key to these questions are to send a message...not to be childish. Some people only have an open ear when they experience the same hurt that the other person feels. What are your thoughts?


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

Great response Maricha75...but what if the spouse does not want to "work it out"? What if they only want what they want? No bargaining...


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

Love it Pandakiss...love it...too bad everyone does not see it the way you do...


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Exactly like Maricha said, if she's just going through the motions you need to figure out why instead of trying to force out her inner actress. The real question is: Why would you rather she fake it to please you, over finding out why she's not into it. sounds like you want to fix your problem and ignore hers. Kinda selfish huh? 
Shot in the dark but maybe she isn't really into pleasing you because she feels you're not interested in pleasing her. 

Oh and your thoughts on stopping certain chores you do for the household to hold out for sex acts is absolutely ridiculous to put it mildly. It blows my mind that you think it's a viable option.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Regarding long list of limitations: I had a long list at one time. But then, now that we have been married 12 years, I have become more adventurous. There are things I would like to try, but he just isn't ready/isn't comfortable with. But I am ok with that. Why? Because I love HIM. We have sex, we connect. But we connect in other ways than just in the bedroom. He knows my interests, and should he ever decide he wants to give them a shot, I am totally up for it. If not, I am ok with that as well. 

And, I guess that answers the "what if they want only what they want?" huh? He doesn't want to do the more adventurous things (no, not threesomes. Neither of us would EVER allow another person into our bed), and I have no problem with that. I'm not going to go out and find someone who will do all those things. I had the opportunity twice, and I shut that guy down immediately. For me, it is enough that he finds me desirable. It is enough that he wants me, and only me. And, considering what he has been going though lately, he has had next to no interest in sex. Yes, I feel hurt by that...to a point. But it doesn't make me want to withhold any kind of expression of love from him. If anything, it makes me want to show MORE love. To show that, while sex is important to me, his health (physical and mental both) takes precedence and I am here no matter what. 

But, each couple is different. The dynamic works differently for everyone. Some women would have hightailed it out as soon as their husband was diagnosed with the problems my husband has. Same for some men. It really all depends on what you want from your relationship.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Clickclick said:


> PBear...I could probably do all of the things you mentioned...
> 
> I wouldn't ask for a threesome (wife wouldn't want it)...so I wouldn't worry about having to take another guy in the bedroom...lol...


Maybe she does want a threesome with you and ol' Mike over there, but didn't want to raise the issue. But now that you brought it up, until you do that with her, she's going to stop doing your laundry. Or maybe her tastes run a little darker and deeper, and until you let her bend you over the couch and paddle your ass till you can't walk foe a week, she's going to stop taking the kids to soccer practice.

I'm more with Mavish. If she won't give you oral, then you shouldn't feel "obligated" to give it to her. But for me, that would be cutting off my nose to spite my face... I could (and did) live with not receiving oral for 17 years while cheerfully giving it virtually every time. And I didn't do it because she vacuumed that day, I did it because her pleasure turned me on, and I enjoyed the sights, sounds, scents, and taste.

I ended up deciding that I didn't want to be in what should have been an intimate relationship with someone who didn't want to be in one with me. I wouldn't have wanted her to lay there like a dead fish, letting me do her anally while she was just waiting for me to finish so I would go mow the lawn. But if that's how you want to approach it, knock yourself out. But I sure hope your wife is a good actress, cause if you start making this all transactional, it's STILL not making her like it any more. If anything, I foresee years of building resentment and frustrations.

If you want to do anything, start cutting back on the work you do around the house until you can get her to go to a sex therapist. Work on WHY she doesn't want to have sex with you.

To give my story (hopefully quickly). I was married for 17 years, and the intimacy was a big factor in the final breakdown. Once a week sex started stretching to once a month, the callouses on my right hand got thicker, to call our sex vanilla was an insult to pudding everywhere. She would never get close to finishing me orally, anal was never an option, although a finger or tongue at the right time was the trick to a toe cramping orgasm for her. If she missed having an orgasm more than 10 times throughout our sexual history, I'd be surprised. Yet sex was never on her priority list. And towards the end, she would deliberately avoid intimacy. Staying up till I was asleep, drinking to the point of passing out when we got home, refusing to go on holidays with just rhe two of us...

Eventually, I looked outside the marriage to have my intimacy needs met. I thought if I could fill that need, I could stay in the marriage till the kids were out of the house. I had two brief affairs over the span of about three months, and pretty quickly realized that this wasn't a solution, no matter how good the sex was. I'm very sorry I did that, and I'll always regret that. The end result was what I was trying to avoid anyway; the end of my marriage.

On the other hand, I've been seeing someone since shortly after my marriage ended, and we're very sexually compatible. The only hang up I've found with her in 16 moths is that I can't cum on her face (mouth and chin is fine, though) or in her hair. Anything else goes, and she wants sex with me as often as I do (daily is good), and as wild as we feel like. So there ARE women out there who are sexual. Heck, there's women in here that are just as cool. But I'd be willing to bet if you tried making it as transactional with someone like them as you describe in your original post, you'd get shut down so fast your head would spin.

Good luck on your relationship. I really mean that. I never found the magic button in mine, but maybe there isn't always one.

C

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

'Life' comes with responsibilities....as a person, a spouse and a mother. 
Relevent to this thread are the responsibilities as a spouse...that means mowing the lawn, doing the laundry, earning money, being a taxi service for the children etc. 
Both husband and wife can mow the lawn, do the laundry etc...it, INCLUDING having sex with each other is a marital 'responsibility'
If you don't accept and go along with the responibilities, don't get married, don't have children etc.

Sex is very important to a man.... If his wife does not have sex with him, I agree it is silly for the man to stop, say, mowing the lawn...but what can he do to actually get his wife to understand his needs?

There are many many women for whom sex is not an important part of marriage.

What is a reasonable (or not) request sex wise is up to the individual couple. 
One hundred years ago oral sex was probably not the 'norm'....whereas anal sex was probably more 'frequent' due to the lack of reliable contraceptives.
Over time I suspect that anal became less 'popular' (availability of reliable contraceptives and STD's etc) and oral becam more popular. Attitudes towards anal and oral have changed over the years...just has attitudes towards male circumcision has changed.

Personally, I think requesting to receive or give oral sex is perfectly normal....anal??..well lets just say I can understand a wife having reservations it. But how can someone say they don't like something if they haven't tried it? I bet there are women here who were reluctant to try anal but then when they did thought WOW!

Is a husband wanting sex with his wife everyday unreasonable....possibly.... but a husband wanting sex twice a week?...Certainly not.

Harmony in the bedroom leads to harmony outside the bedroom.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

barbieDoll said:


> The more I think about this, the more I have to argue. Wouldn't that just be childish? That you would only perform certain acts or even perform at all because the other spouse did? So you're only being nice because they were? That you're only giving him a BJ because he ate you out? Does that not seem a little childish?
> 
> Shouldn't it be more about pleasing the other person because it pleases you rather than because you're just reciprocating?
> 
> Of course if it's never reciprocated is a whole different issue.


Well, your disclaimer at the end is precisely the problem. The people who have these issues, IMO, typically see one partner who has little or zero interest in sex. Saying "no oral for me = none for you" or something else strictly sexual gets no response because it is not valued.

Often, you have to hit where it hurts.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

enoughisenough said:


> Sex acts are optional. Tasks around the house are not. If I don't do a sexual act, it doesn't leave work for someone else to do. If I don't do housework, it does. I think what you propose is manipulative and not equivalent.


But, essential vs. non-essential is a narrow way to look at the issue. As you have defined it, sex in its entirety is not essential. And precisely that argument is used by LD / ND people to deny sex to their spouses.

What if you took a broader "satisfaction" based view towards this issue? If you tell your spouse essentially "sex is something I value higher. If you do not put in the effort I expect you to sacrifice and inconvenience yourself commensurately".

Sometimes you just have to hit where it hurts.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

enoughisenough said:


> Unless the task is optional and not necessary then it wouldn't be fair. For example, anal sex doesn't have to be done. The dishes do. If the husband decided to refuse to do the dishes then the wife would have to do them. If the wife refuses anal sex, it's not leaving anything undone that is an absolute must. There are things I'd like my husband to do in bed that he won't but that doesn't mean I will refuse to cook dinner. It might mean I am less likely to be willing to do something extra for him that is optional, like buy him a bottle of wine that night, because that is a favor that makes no difference if it is done or not.
> 
> Sex acts are optional. Tasks around the house are not. If I don't do a sexual act, it doesn't leave work for someone else to do. If I don't do housework, it does. I think what you propose is manipulative and not equivalent.
> 
> The way it works more in my marriage is that my husband isn't into sex as adventurous as I would like it, I don't feel motivated as often so he ends up with less sex by default. He won't make the effort to try something new, if I'm tired I don't feel the same level of obligation to make an effort to do something to please him. Apples with apples.


Interesting idea... But tasks around the house can be farmed out to people outside the house, like hiring a maid or lawn service... You could try that with the sex stuff as well, I guess. 

And your last paragraph about him getting less sex than he'd like isn't really useful, because I'm guessing the OP's wife would cheerfully go with less sex. That's the problem with low drive spouses... "Punishing" them by withholding intimacy is actually rewarding them. It's like suspending a teenager from school because they've skipped too many classes.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PBear said:


> If you want to do anything, start cutting back on the work you do around the house until you can get her to go to a sex therapist. Work on WHY she doesn't want to have sex with you.
> 
> But I'd be willing to bet if you tried making it as transactional with someone like them as you describe in your original post, you'd get shut down so fast your head would spin.


I think you're missing the point PBear.

I am a strong proponent of the "pull back", "do the 180", or whatever you want to call it, as are many others here on TAM.

What you are missing is that the "transactional" nature of sex generally comes AFTER sex has been shut down (or at least driven down to a very low level). It generally is a last attempt to drive a change in a poor relationship dynamic.

Or, to look at it differently, it is generally a case of "the sex is or might as well be non-existant, so what do I have to lose?" It is not something done lightly, as in "I did not get a BJ this time so I'm going to drop a hint and let her pump her own gas". Your comment tends to imply that this is done rather lightly out of retribution or to "train" your partner.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Pandakiss said:


> What I have seen and learned over 20 years is there is always a bleed over, or overflow. Picture a group of cups. Like the dolls that fit inside one another. This cup is half full, this one is three quarters full.,,and so on.


Of course there is bleed-over. Isn't that the concept behind the advice to pay more attention outside the bedroom to get more inside the bedroom?

To anyone who says that there should be no bleed-over: would you agree that if some is a complete slob, provides no domestic support, lets the kids run wild and disrespect you, etc. that person should still be greeted enthusiastically in the bedroom? After all, we are talking about non-sexual shortcomings, right?

:scratchhead:


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

DTO said:


> I think you're missing the point PBear.
> 
> I am a strong proponent of the "pull back", "do the 180", or whatever you want to call it, as are many others here on TAM.
> 
> ...


Well, the OP wasn't complaining of the frequency of sex, but that his (assuming he's make here) wife wasn't adventurous enough. 

In any case, I'll stand by my thought that starting to relate a blow job to mowing the lawn is likely to make things worse, not better. A better approach would be looking at things like the MMSL and NMMNG. But I'll also stick with my theory that sometimes, there is no magic solution. The other person isn't into sex, has no desire to meet their partner's needs, and they'd be just as happy with a roommate who pays half the rent and utilities on time. And it's up to the higher drive spouse to decide if that's acceptable, because it ain't gonna change.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

I think that's a very bad idea. I know for me, my first reaction would be anger that he would equate doing the dishes with having sex. My second reaction would be passive-aggressiveness. I would consent to having sex but would just lay there to spite him. I'm not saying either of these behaviors are mature or good, but I know my personality and that's what I would have done when I was entrenched in my own sexless life.

I don't know what would have worked. I think I had to evolve as a human being. Being a mother made me less selfish. I learned how to give of myself. I grew up in a really messed up house with a single mother who never thought of anyone unless they could serve her in some way. I learned that. It took years of my husband's gentle patience and selfless giving for me to see what true love looked like. It then took being a mother to learn how to give selflessly myself. Now that I know how good it feels to truly love someone with all my heart and give of myself completely, I could never go back to that selfish lifestyle.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Clickclick said:


> From much reading I have discovered that men feel loved through sex. Women often feel loved through listening, hugging, kissing, helping with chores, etc... So, the purpose is not to truly equal sex to chores...it is to take something away from the wife...that she finds as a message of love...just like bland sex/or declining certain acts takes the feeling of love and acceptance away from the husband. Let's take the oral/anal out of the equation. What if the husband simply wants passionate sex, but the wife lays there "like a knot on a log"? Then, would taking away something that she strongly desires be a message or equivalent act?


Click,

Then take away a physical act she likes such as back rubs, hand holding, kisses on the neck etc


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Will someone please explain to me how sitting around watching your wife pick up after you is supposed to increase her sexual attraction? Wouldn't she see you as a 2 yr-old with a temper tantrum? Or think you are using her as indentured servant? 

Why not start with talking to her. Only this time don't talk about sex, may seem like me me me when it should really be we we we. Rememebr you are in a marriage, she is your wife a woman you love and the relationship is about both of you. This is not about bj and anal for you. 

I can tell you for that your wife does not look at the relationship in terms of sex acts for you. Do you know f she has any dissatisfactions in the marriage? You might how some interest in what is going on with her that may have led to a disconnect. 

If she is not forthcoming then tell her your unhappy and you want to go to MC. Make sure to go to someone who is well versed in marital problems and sexual problems. 

If that does not work you may have to do the ultimate and divorce after exhausting all remedies. This process will not give you the instant solution you are looking for it will take time and effort. 

Do you love your wife enough to take the initiative, time and effort to make sure the issue is not something in the relationship that is fixable? Even if things don't work out, you at lest acquire skills for your next relationship. 

Oh and stop watching porn. It warps your view of sex. I think you will be much happier.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Toffer said:


> Click,
> 
> Then take away a physical act she likes such as back rubs, hand holding, kisses on the neck etc


You think this will make her want to give him enthusiastic anal and bj? 

Have you tried it?


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

Clickclick said:


> I have read a lot of posts on "talk about marriage" regarding lack of sex or a spouse that is limited in sexual actions.
> 
> I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value.
> 
> ...


No, it wouldnt. UNLESS, she was holding out the sex altogether.

And then you have to find out WHY.

But to perform specific sex acts such as oral, anal, etc, is something that should have been discussed BEFORE marriage. 

Did you guys have oral and or anal while dating? If so then why has it stopped?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> You think this will make her want to give him enthusiastic anal and bj?
> 
> Have you tried it?


Actually, yes and have had some success with it.

My issue with my wife has been mostly frequency issues. When I started to not do some of the things she liked, she started to sense somthing was off and she even intiated one evening a few weeks ago (quite unusual)

We've set time aside this weekend for some talking and she'll find out from me my issues and I'll listen to any she's has


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

Wow. Since when did sex become a tit for tat exercise? I understand your frustration, but I think that that attitude would backfire. If my husband felt like he wasn't getting enough sex, I hope he would communicate that to me instead of acting out like a child. Sex loses its beauty when it becomes all about meeting your needs and getting what you want out of it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

momtwo4 said:


> Wow. Since when did sex become a tit for tat exercise? I understand your frustration, but I think that that attitude would backfire. If my husband felt like he wasn't getting enough sex, I hope he would communicate that to me instead of acting out like a child. Sex loses its beauty when it becomes all about meeting your needs and getting what you want out of it.


Communication should be the first step. Unfortunately, all to often it does not work. A HD partner complains, but continues to do all the nice things done previously, so the LD partner receives a mixed message - the words are saying it is a problem but the actions are saying it is not really a big deal. Human nature being what it is, the LD partner picks the message they want to hear (it is not really a big deal) and does not adjust.

I would never advocate trading a chore for a sexual favor. I would also not advocate it for specific acts in the bedroom. That will result in bad things for a marriage. But where the LD spouse is not willing to adjust or compromise, I do think that the HD turning things down, not doing everything previously done for the LD, and focusing more on themselves while letting the LD know why, is a reasonable reaction.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Clickclick said:


> I have read a lot of posts on "talk about marriage" regarding lack of sex or a spouse that is limited in sexual actions.
> 
> I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value.
> 
> ...


For starters, if sex is considered a "duty" by my spouse, I'd just as soon do without. It's supposed to be something that BOTH parties enjoy, otherwise it's just sympathy and that's pathetic IMO.

And what about guys who cook, clean, do laundry, go to work, and STILL get told NO?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Clickclick said:


> I feel that sex and all other marital duties (clean house, cook, mow lawn, etc...) are all of equal value.


The only way this would work is if both of you have this same mind-set...in otherwords a more transactional viewpoint of sex.

That's kind of sad, in a way, though, because a transactional view of sex means that you will miss the depth and beauty and intimacy that sex between two actively engaged (engaged as in the relationship and in giving to each other) partners is.



Clickclick said:


> So, what if... What if wife says "NO" to certain sexual actions (oral, anal, etc...), but the husband desires to perform those actions? What if the husband that is declined certain sexual acts says "NO" to the daily duties that the other spouse desires (help around the house, pay bills, etc...)? What if each time the wife requests a specific daily duty around the home to be performed...and the spouse says "NO" verbally the same way that the wife says "NO" in bed? What if the husband does the ultimate basics around the home?
> 
> Wouldn't that be fair?


Firm no's, whether given by husband or wife, need to be accepted as such. You have to be very careful of the nature of the 'pull back' that you are espousing, as it can devolve into passive-aggressive tendencies that will get you nowhere. For instance, since both spouses live in the household, they should both be responsible for a certain amount of its upkeep.

Your better bet is to try and find out the reasons behind the 'no' and if there are actions that you can take on your part to help ameliorate the issues that you may be contributing to the situation.

Best wishes.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

momtwo4 said:


> Wow. Since when did sex become a tit for tat exercise? I understand your frustration, but I think that that attitude would backfire. If my husband felt like he wasn't getting enough sex, I hope he would communicate that to me instead of acting out like a child. Sex loses its beauty when it becomes all about meeting your needs and getting what you want out of it.


As TAG said, this type of action should be taken after discussions have failed (as they did in my case). My wife and I have had numerous talks, read books, counseling blah, blah, blah. Things got better for a while and then back to the same old same old.

I got some results by NOT doing some of the little things she enjoyed as noted earlier. Also, by not doing these things and intiating less, I've detached myself somewhat from the situation and feel less neglected because of it


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. 

I have tried for 20 years. We have talked. We have cried. I have ceased doing things she likes. I have put forth extra effort to talk, hug, kiss, pay her attention. We are actually going through a little mental/physical exercise right now...but still to no avail. 

The real deal is...anal is not that important. Oral is fairly important. She gives no anal. She very seldom gives oral (due to physical issues)...maybe once every 6 months to a year. When she does...she does not complete the task. I have even suggested manual stimulation...and oral at the very end...but the answer is "no".

So, after 20 years...I thought maybe I would just like to see what the public has to say.

We have sex, but she is like a zombie. She does not participate...unless she is on top. Otherwise she either just lays there or bends over...and constantly says, "quit"..."stop"..."don't"..."that hurts"..."I don't like that"...to the simplest sexual jestures...or "come on and get it and get off". And she will not stimulate herself in any way.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

Clickclick said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone.
> 
> I have tried for 20 years. We have talked. We have cried. I have ceased doing things she likes. I have put forth extra effort to talk, hug, kiss, pay her attention. We are actually going through a little mental/physical exercise right now...but still to no avail.
> 
> ...


That's low. I've admitted to being sexually selfish in my youth. However, I never behaved that disgustingly. I always tried to get into it and make it worth his time. I always enjoyed it. That's probably why my husband didn't put up too much of a stink. This one is just mean. I'm sorry.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Clickclick said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone.
> 
> I have tried for 20 years. We have talked. We have cried. I have ceased doing things she likes. I have put forth extra effort to talk, hug, kiss, pay her attention. We are actually going through a little mental/physical exercise right now...but still to no avail.
> 
> ...


I don't see how the whole barter thing is going to help you. Even if you get what you want, she's still not going to enjoy it, and apparently she's not a good actress. She's not enjoying sex, she doesn't want sex (with you)... My thoughts... Learn to live with it, or prepare yourself for finding another partner. Because the odds of getting what you want with this one is slim. If you can get her to talk to a sex therapist, maybe you have a chance. But to do that, she might have to understand you've reached a limit, and you're willing to leave because of it.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I've personally tried something like this once. Please trust me, it is not a good idea. The day after she refused me a bj I refused a (non chore, non essential) task that she wanted me to do. When I refused, I used the exact same words that she used to refuse me "I could, but I don't want to". That night, she gave me a great BJ. Really great, much more enthusiastic than usual. When she was done she said "don't ever blackmail me again, or that will be the last one you ever get". Not my finest moment. Not only did it scare the crap out of me, it made me feel, well I won't go there. Suffice to say I do not recommend this course of action.


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

Well...WorkingOnMe...atleast you got one...lol...


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

I agree PBear. I don't think the bartering will help either. I just wanted feedback.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Yeah, didn't read all of it so pardon me if I'm repeating what someone else said. 

Dude.. When you're doing things because you're trying to be fair, it's only ever going to result in things not being done.

You want more sex, you need to figure out what it is about you that needs to change to make your wife have an instininctive reaction of wanting to make babies with you.

Chores are things that are rational tasks. Sex involves emotion and being in the mood. Don't make any connection, and don't try to rationalize yourself into sex because the only role for rationalization is getting yourself out of sex.

Rethink your situation in terms of whether you are making your wife horny enough to want to give you as much sex as you want to have with her.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Clickclick said:


> I agree PBear. I don't think the bartering will help either. I just wanted feedback.


Fair enough. I do wish you well... I wish I could have found the switch on my wife that would have turned things around, but we had enough other issues as well that I don't regret my decision. I do regret my affairs, though. They accomplished absolutely nothing, and I lost the ability to tell any prospective partner that I had never cheated.

Have you tried the MMSL?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Click,

Her response to you when she does have sex really sucks.

I it were me, I think I'd tell her that she either needs to get some serious sex counseling and try or you're outta there! You could also tell her that if she didn't want to have sex that it was OK but be sure she knows that you won't be celbate and will pursue other opportunities. She's welcome to keep living as your roommate and reap the rewards but you'll seek solace elsewhere


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

PBear...what is MMSL???


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Married Man's Sex Life which is a book that you can also view with kindle through Amazon. The link in my signature takes you to my post about how it's turned around my marriage recently.


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## Clickclick (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks WillK. I am starting this tonight...


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