# Advice about the Temperature - Barometer



## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Wow, I stumbled upon this site and above post and it was erie familiar... Scary almost. I am the hot one in the relationship. Been married for 18 years, together for 20 with 2 kids. Before we were married I would say the temperature was balanced. However after we were married, I definitely became the hot one, and she the cooler one. But a few years ago I could feel us falling out of love. So in pursuit of regaining it I began cranking up the "love meter" by saying I loved her in messages, doing more around the house, initiating physical contact, talking about the R, expecting sex for good deeds... All of the things that now are clearly bad for our long term relationship. I say this with confidence because I know she will only respect me if I stand up for myself. But my question is, would it be a bad idea to ask her to read that post? Anybody tried that? Could it open here eyes? Or is I best to alter my efforts (been doing that for 4 or 5 days now - so early on) and let the chips fall where they may?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

MEM has some great posts if you search for or PM him.

My personal opinion is that if you are taking steps to moderate yourself ... then you do not invite your spouse in on the action.

It's a rather polarizing concept. I'm not interested in what looks or seems 'right'. I'm interested in results. And particularly, I know of no cases where a man has invited his partner to assist him, or has made her aware of his journey for self-improvement and it has gone well. 

Not one.

If anything, you are broadcasting to your partner that you feel unsure of things, so in the event that you are following given advice, or some other script by an author such Kay or Glover, your partner then perceives that ANY difference in the interactions you have is contrived ... and via her own programming, she will resist them more, not less.

Hope that makes sense.

For any man reading things like NMMNG, MMSLP, Hold Onto Your NUTS, or following advice given here, my message is simple. This is about you, not your partner. Keep it to yourself.


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## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Ok that makes total sense. Thanks. I'll keep reading and keep my actions to myself...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hey 18,
Welcome to TAM. 

Deejo is very good at this stuff. 

The reasons it is actually 'harmful' to invite your spouse into this process is are: 
- It will be one more case of you 'seeking their approval' or trying to avoid their 'disapproval', both of which are unhealthily 'hot' behaviors.
- The hotter partner has almost always ceded too much control of the marriage. While this kills desire, it is appealing to the cooler partner because they get used to having so much control. And they WILL inflict some amount of pain on you as you attempt to rebalance the marriage. 






18436572 said:


> Ok that makes total sense. Thanks. I'll keep reading and keep my actions to myself...


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## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Well I suppose it's been 3 weeks now and thought I'd post an update. So far you're definitely correct about the pain part. I've been cooling off as described. And so far she's just gotten colder - which I think as Mem described is her way of expressing her disapproval of maybe losing some control or "hand" if you've seen the Seinfeld episode  In a nut shell I'd sum up our R as she just isn't prepared, or hasn't for a while, to put any effort into our R. I would have to initiate everything like hugs, kisses, good night's, ILU's, and in trying to be a nice guy and good husband killed the desire. And right now it doesn't look good for a comeback. But I think I'm ok with whatever happens. Like Charlie Pride said about the rain and cold...but it sure feels warmer than it did sleeping in my king size bed... The interesting thing is about the same time as I came across this site, I was frustrated and had suggested going to see a councillor and she agreed. We just had one meeting so far but have another on Thursday. So I'm not sure what will come of that. But aside from that, I've been wondering just how long do you go along with the ice cold environment? I mean if she is completely willing to wait it out? She has never that I can remember ever struck up a conversation about our R. And I think she'd be pretty good at a game of chicken. As for the other details, I've always taken good care of myself - I have to due to some food sensitivities. I have begun working out more, and going out with friends more. But the things that really bother me are; if I don't say good night and kiss her good night she won't. But she put a sign above our bed that says "Always kiss me good night". She buys things like jewellery that says "Huggs and Kisses" but yet it feels like she doesn't want the from me. And recently she began not wearing her rings very often (engagement, wedding and 10th anniv). It's like she is just dangling the bait wanting me to bite and ask. So what's a guy to do, stop wearing mine and see if see says anything? Do I still continue kissing her goodnight and goodbye?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

No you don't take off your ring.

Yes, you stop giving her a hug and a kiss goodnight. Or at the very least, change the dynamic. Instead of initiating, invite her instead.
"Come over here and give me a kiss, goodnight."

And if she declines, then shrug and go about your business. Don't engage.


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## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Well it's been a long crappy year or almost, which reached it's all time low about 30 hours ago when my wife finally admitted she had an affair. Turns out the barometer report was even more true than I ever thought possible. The last 30 hours has been an emotional roller coaster. She said it lasted for 6 months +/- and was with an old lover from before we met - like 22 years ago. Contacted through facebook and started conversing and things progressed from there. Over the last year our R did improve but still not to what I need. The story I get is they broke it off b/c they both realized it wasn't going any farther. She didn't want to leave our life and kids, and neither did he. Last November she said she wanted to separate - which was when they were likely deciding what they were going to do. However 2 days later she came and said she didn't want that. Ups and downs followed with the occasional talk about separation, which she would say she didn't want. But I could feel she wouldn't open up. Sunday she came clean, said she loved me and wanted to be with me, and is prepared to do whatever it takes. I was full of questions which she seemed to be open to answering. I have to admit the irony of this whole thing. During the last year or two I sometimes wished that this would've happened. So it would end the pain in one way or another. Either it would end, or put us on some long recovery to happiness. Somehow my brain or heart perhaps wanted to rationalize it and be open to trying to work it out. The fact it was a previous love, it was a year ago, I likely followed the barometer track to a T. The fact she chose me/us. The fact I'm crazy about her - or have been. The thought that now perhaps it is behind us that I could have the happy life and relationship we had once before. When asked why did it take 10 months for you to "love" me again? She said she knew she didn't want to be apart, but the guilt kept her from getting close. She knew I didn't deserve what she did. Now I find myself constantly coming in and out of pain - this pain in my stomach, loss of appetite. So so many questions about trust going forward, respect. I keep thinking about what they did when they were together and how they did it. I know they had sex many times. All the lies to make it happen. Did she think she loved him? How could she ever justify what she did? How can I put these thoughts about them being together making love out of my mind? Will I respect myself for letting her away with it? Do I just need to grow some balls and end it? There's a lot to lose, financially and family. We have 2 great kids, top of their classes. Could she cheat again? Any advise or support is appreciated.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

i am not so sure i would let her read posts. You are showing your cards, and she may respond in the opposite way you hope. Just do the 180 on her, become a strong man, and she will start to respect you more...and more sex will follow. 

That does not mean you can not help out around the house. But no pink aprons allowed, if ya know what i mean.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

What do you want to happen?
Do you want to stay with her and work it out? 
Do you want to leave?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

You'll likely get lots of differing advice here, and be left to sort thru what's best for your actual situation.

Here's my amateur idea:

She seems to be so focused on herself that she is able to completely disregard how you feel, how what she does impacts you. Early on she probably seized on a few things that she rationalized to the point that you deserve whatever crap she throws at you. That wall of ignorance and justification has to be blown to bits.

If you want to make reconcile with her she needs multiple light bulbs to go off and illuminate to her what a crap wife she is. Whether it comes from the top of your lungs, marriage counselor, or watching you turn your back on her is your decision.

No matter what her complaints -- an affair? That's hateful, destructive, horrendous behavior. She needs to realize that via your strongest disgust. Good luck ever getting those images out of your mind. She has defiled one of the best, most sacred aspects of marriage. She needs to hear about that, too.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

18436572

You may be advised to move this thread to CWI and at some point that may be helpful

But for now I would keep it here as things in CWI can get too contentious between posters

You have some really good help here right now

Some others will follow

If the posters I recommended to you in our PM don't join PM them and they will be very quick to help

Stay here on TAM for help It's really just getting started for you

55


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

My opinion--this is on her. If she wants your marriage to work, it's up to HER to prove it. You can make a checklist for her of what you want from her, and she can tick off every item on the list--and it still might not be enough. The responsibility is now on her to make it work, not on you. She needs to be chasing you, not the other way around.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I don't know how to articulate what I want to say to you but I'll try.

Something is just...way way off with the way she treated you during her cheating. I mean...just not right. Like she doesn't love you anymore. Maybe getting rejected by the other guy and lying and saying she chose you? That's what I feel like is going on here.

She didnt have any guilt about the cheating or she would have NEVER taken her rings off. I don't know....I just don't see any hope in this one.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

18436572 said:


> Now I find myself constantly coming in and out of pain - this pain in my stomach, loss of appetite. So so many questions about trust going forward, respect. I keep thinking about what they did when they were together and how they did it. I know they had sex many times. All the lies to make it happen. Did she think she loved him? How could she ever justify what she did? How can I put these thoughts about them being together making love out of my mind? Will I respect myself for letting her away with it? Do I just need to grow some balls and end it? There's a lot to lose, financially and family. We have 2 great kids, top of their classes. Could she cheat again? Any advise or support is appreciated.


It will take some time for you to deal with this. 3-5 years is often the range. You will also need a lot of answers from her. The level of detail is up to you, but she will need to be forthcoming and give you what you need.

As far as respect, that is personal to you. Don't view it as what others think, but rather what you need. There is no right answer, beyond what is right for you. 

A counselor who specializes in infidelity may provide you some help.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

18436572 said:


> Well it's been a long crappy year or almost, which reached it's all time low about 30 hours ago when my wife finally admitted she had an affair. Turns out the barometer report was even more true than I ever thought possible. The last 30 hours has been an emotional roller coaster. She said it lasted for 6 months +/- and was with an old lover from before we met - like 22 years ago. Contacted through facebook and started conversing and things progressed from there. Over the last year our R did improve but still not to what I need. The story I get is they broke it off b/c they both realized it wasn't going any farther. She didn't want to leave our life and kids, and neither did he. Last November she said she wanted to separate - which was when they were likely deciding what they were going to do. However 2 days later she came and said she didn't want that. Ups and downs followed with the occasional talk about separation, which she would say she didn't want. But I could feel she wouldn't open up. Sunday she came clean, said she loved me and wanted to be with me, and is prepared to do whatever it takes. I was full of questions which she seemed to be open to answering. I have to admit the irony of this whole thing. During the last year or two I sometimes wished that this would've happened. So it would end the pain in one way or another. Either it would end, or put us on some long recovery to happiness. Somehow my brain or heart perhaps wanted to rationalize it and be open to trying to work it out. The fact it was a previous love, it was a year ago, I likely followed the barometer track to a T. The fact she chose me/us. The fact I'm crazy about her - or have been. The thought that now perhaps it is behind us that I could have the happy life and relationship we had once before. When asked why did it take 10 months for you to "love" me again? She said she knew she didn't want to be apart, but the guilt kept her from getting close. She knew I didn't deserve what she did. Now I find myself constantly coming in and out of pain - this pain in my stomach, loss of appetite. So so many questions about trust going forward, respect. I keep thinking about what they did when they were together and how they did it. I know they had sex many times. All the lies to make it happen. Did she think she loved him? How could she ever justify what she did? How can I put these thoughts about them being together making love out of my mind? Will I respect myself for letting her away with it? Do I just need to grow some balls and end it? There's a lot to lose, financially and family. We have 2 great kids, top of their classes. Could she cheat again? Any advise or support is appreciated.




You want some advice from a woman (who has been through the wringer)? Your original post sounded off to me. Questions on why she was growing colder kept running through my mind. When she took her rings off; that was a dead giveaway.

Fast forward to the affair discovery and it all falls into place, right?

Now it is about you. Get into counseling stat. ALONE. You need some crisis management. Work through the initial stage of grief with your counselor for some clarity. The anger is coming. You need to be ready for it.

How old are your kids?
Is your wife honest and ethical in other ways? Does she opt for the easy way out? does she have narcissistic tendencies? Is she usually a liar? All of these things play into whether she will cheat again. I tend to think yes, but I am pretty hardcore about cutting your losses and not reconciling. Still, that must be your decision. The affair went on a long time. She disrespected you and betrayed not just you, but the entire family. She has put your life at risk.

You are on a very long path. I wish you weren't here. It is tough. Besides the counseling, my only other advice is do not let fear rule your decisions going forward.


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## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Well it's been quite a week  First things first. No I haven't shown her this thread and don't intend to. Sunday/Monday a couple of conversations had taken place. At that point my heart was telling me I had to at least try. There were some conditions set out. Our marriage would need to be better than it had been in 15 years. If there was a chance it would work she would need to show me she loves me, and wants to be with me more than anywhere else in the world constantly. Every time I come home I need to be greeted with a hug and a kiss and smile. Contact during the day, constant reassurance that she's thinking of me and cares about me. A lot of love physically - instigated by her like holding hands or sitting beside me. Making love - all the time - and I need to feel her be a part of that. I told her for me this isn't about sex, honestly. Despite the fact I'm crazy about her - she's so beautiful. It's about connection, knowing that she wants to be with me and love me, have that irreplaceable connection that only lovers share. It's about pleasing each other - making the feel good. And she has done that all week. I suppose I never mentioned that in the few years leading up to the affair she had lost 60 lbs by a lot of hard work.
So by Tuesday afternoon I was hitting the anger stage - good call Fenex - although I hadn't got your post yet... I needed to talk to somebody so I called a MSW therapist and luckily I was able to get an appointment Wednesday night. However by supper time Tuesday some things needed to be said - just had to. Here's what was said:
First I had a question or two While we were in councelling - which was also during the affair btw, the counceller suggested she talk to someone on her own. As we were sitting there discussing what I had perhaps done to cause this loss of love. What did you talk to the other counsellor about? She said she didn't bring up the affair because she was ashamed. I then said the following. I've agreed to try to work this out, and I believe part of the healing process is to tell you how I feel. This is important because once I agree to this I must promise to never bring it up. This can't be something brought up every time you burn the chicken. Otherwise our future will be doomed. This is a huge decision. 

The crazy thing is that if you took away the pain associated with learning about your affair, the last 3 days would've probably been the best out of the last 6 years of marriage - for me anyway. For days now I've been going around and around in my head trying to make sense of what has happened. It got to the point where I was trying to use my actions to justify your affair. What you did was the ultimate betrayal, and I've done nothing remotely close to ever deserving that. You have compromised one of the most sacred aspects of marriage. Yet I have not seen you shed a single tear to show remorse or guilt. The worst I've ever done is love you too much and perhaps give you too many compliments. Yet you somehow justified getting into another mans bed repeatedly for 9 months! Can you comprehend the images that have ran through my mind? The fact is you chose him over me and our boys for 9 months. Then for another 10 months you treated me like crap. I'm sure you've had some un filled needs during our marriage. But 19 years ago you made a promise, a commitment to be faithful through good times and bad. It was your responsibility to put effort forth to help meet those needs. 

By that point I was really angry. She couldn't really answer my questions about why, what was the attraction, why so long etc... She asked what I needed. At this point I was running on emotions. I told her I needed her to leave. That's when she got upset. She kept begging - I have no place to go...please don't make me go. I was firm - you made the choice when you chose him over me and the boys, our life wasn't good enough for you. You chose to repeatedly sleep with him, lie to us. I'm at home making supper for the boys and you're screwing him. It went around and round. She asked what I was going to tell the boys - which I wasn't prepared for. I just said they'll just need to know you broke a promise to me and I'm not sure if I can forgive you. She continued pleading to stay. Finally I just laid down on the bed - I was exhausted. I said I don't know what to do... You say you'll do all the things I need, but that's never been you. She began talking about how she will, she loves me, she wants to be with me and she'll prove it to me. I asked her are really prepared to (all things mentioned) and she said yes. Make love every night if I need it? yes Will you be in to it? yes . I ended up agreeing she could stay and I'll keep trying.


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## 18436572 (Sep 14, 2013)

Wednesday evening I met with the councillor. I was very glad I did as she had lots of insight and support. After we walked through the events she agreed that I need to try to work it out. If you don't give it your best you'll wonder for the rest of your life. She had lots of questions and advise. The feel good part was one way or another I will get the life I deserve. Either with her or without her. I have the power now. By early Thursday morning I was ready to talk to her about my session. This is what I said:
She said some good positive things. She said that from all I have told her, that she believes what you are telling me is true. And that your actions now are and going forward must always support what you say you will do.
We have to try to repair our marriage. I am willing if you will do the following. 
Communicate. Texts and calls during the day. 
Love. Passionate love making as much as I need it. That's when I feel attached to you, the strong marital bond and connection. That is part of my love language that you must understand. It's not about just sex. It's about you wanting to be with me, it's about me pleasing you sexually. 
Instigating cuddling, holding hands, sex, showing you love me in public, 
Look into ways that can help our marriage, spice up our marriage. Read online and practice things happy couples do. Support my passions and learn to enjoy them, for they make me happy and they should then make you happy. Hugs everyday I leave and come home. Show me that your happy to see me and you've missed me. Prove to me that there is no other place you'd rather be than with me and our family. Appreciate our family and all we have truly.

Do you truly respect your mother? Sometimes you don't treat her very well, she was your primary care giver. That bond may have never fully developed. Now I am your primary care giver, and look how you have treated me. She may have let you down somehow but have I? You need to look inside the marriage for support, comfort and love. You need to trust me unconditionally.
My part in all this is someday forgiving you. Your part in this to meet my needs to acquire this, and trust. 
Right now you have to understand the trust is gone. Your word doesn't mean anything at this point. However it can be won back with time. How long it will take is unknown. But for now you have to understand that I know what you are truly capable of. This is going to have to be front and center of your mind with every action. The wrong move will trigger unknown emotional responses inside me. For now... No more girls trips. No more trips without me period. No going away for work with your boss or co-workers overnight. Drinks with the girls after volleyball will forever take on a different meaning for me. 
How do I know it's actually over? It's up to you to somehow prove it to me. You understand I can't just take your word for it. 

She reassured me she will do whatever I need. And this week she has shown me and done everything she has said she'll do. Again - delete the pain of the affair and I'd consider myself to be the luckiest guy on the planet. 

But here are my fears.
I've been put through a ringer for 2 years. I've told her what I need in order to try to work it out and stay together. What if in time she realizes this isn't what she wants. What if she has a bad day and I miss read that. I am very fragile right now and a little thing like that could put me into a nose dive. How will I ever remove the images from my mind? Could she do it again? What does it mean that it took her 10 months to confess? Why did she treat me like crap until she told me. Guilt? Why is she so willing all of a sudden to do whatever it takes to stay together? She has never been forward with love, affection and intimacy. But the conditions will be that must never change. And she seems more than willing to do all that I need. To have a beautiful wife that will give me whatever I need when I need it. To dote on me and be the wife I always dreamed of? We have a lot to lose financially and most importantly our family. But how could it have gone on for 6-8 months? Did she think there could be a future with him? Biggest problem right now for me is the time frame. For 6 months she slept with him repeatedly. Why so long? She's never appreciated our life and our family. She's never been happy, perhaps all her life? Growing up? Never happy with what we have. Healthy kids and family. House, motorhome, cabin, new car. Is that the root of her affair? Never being happy? Can she change now for the rest of her live? I suppose she'll have to prove she can.
She had a good suggestion when I was talking about visions in my mind of them. She said replace them with visions of us in bed. Loving etc. That has been good. What's with not being able to sleep past 4am anyway. That's driving me nuts being so tired all the time. Every am this week


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

18436572 said:


> She's never appreciated our life and our family. She's never been happy, perhaps all her life? Growing up? Never happy with what we have. Healthy kids and family. House, motorhome, cabin, new car.
> 
> Can she change now for the rest of her live?


OP

This is a huge concern. She may be able to hide this from you right now but if she does not get to the root cause I am afraid for your future. 

I'm all for reconciliation but don't do it for the kids or financial reasons. You have to truly believe that she is capable and willing to do the work to fix herself and become a wife that is capable of loving her husband. From what you described so far I am very skeptical. The length of her affair makes me skeptical. 

I say test her. Was the OM married? Tell om's wife about the affair and if your ww gets angry then you'll know she isn't that remorseful.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Maybe it's like this?

So he played her, when she got serious, he dumped her. She came back to her good ol' Plan B. As soon as something more promising comes up, you'll see the same ol' behaviors and you'll be the same ol' Plan B. 

If you have not yet read the highly recommended books, this will repeat. If you have not yet read them, we will know where the issue is. You. Work on you. Take control. You decide if you want R with a known cheater or press on with a clean slate with a decent person.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

1. STD tests. Insist that she get this and show you the results in writing. Get tested as well. If she won't do this divorce her.

2. The OM? Married? Notify his wife. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. If she finds out afterwards and freaks out...well, that is very telling. 

3. Get a timeline and find out if any of your money was spent. If so that is money that was stolen from you. Expect her to pay you back.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

18436572 said:


> What's with not being able to sleep past 4am anyway. That's driving me nuts being so tired all the time. Every am this week


There should be an evolutionary benefit in it. I have never been able to see it.

If you are so tired, the lack of sleep is even further driving you down in burnout land. Which does not help in finding a solution or solving the problem.

I only can imagine a use in there in that it is a call for action, alerting you to have to do something about it.

In that case one should get up at 4am, and use the Why5 questions technique to find out what is the real reason your unconscious mind chooses to wake you up and deprive you of your so needed sleep.


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