# Sounding board needed. A whirling wife- at wits end with the gaslighting and rugswe



## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

Hello members,

I never thought I would find myself typing my problem on a website to complete strangers but I am so at a loss and don’t know what to do. I have been reading others situations and solutions and felt embolden to share my situation also. I have no friends or famliy I would dare divulge this to as they are all mutual and I fear I would be misunderstood.

Problem: I am pretty sure H is involved in a Pa, Ea or both and at this point I don’t think the distinction matters.

Background Married almost 12 years W- mid 30s, H-early 40s
No kids together h- 2 adult kids and ex wife
Faults partners are likely to find about the other:
w- Self absorbed, transactional, lacking affection, doesn’t want kids, won’t do things with h
h- Attention seeking, potential passive aggressive, fair-weather provider, inconciderate, likes talking to opposite sex, 

I will start off by saying that the dynamics of our marriage have been shaky for sometime. A major problem in the marriage thought h wont admit is that I did not know for sure if I wanted to have kids until years after we were married. Yes I know this is something people should discuss before marriage and I genuinely believed I would at some point but as the years went by and excuses and excuse I came to realization I didn’t really want to after about 9 years of marriage. H said he would like to but not a big deal though he would occasionally bring it up (he had kids when very young). Between that and my own resentment issues, H- is job hopper not very stable yet big spender. 
We always had our issues but generally thought the marriage was a decent 6.5-7/10 most times.

In the last few weeks things have come to a head in the worst way. Basically , I believe h has been having some type of encounters with women as of late and continues to talk to various women that I do not know when I have asked him not to because of things found ion the past. The problem is that I never have concrete evidence and as a result, have been subjected to gaslighting (thought didn’t realize it) and I rugssweept as clues presented them selves: i.e. dating profiles on multiple sites- he said signed up but no follow though all the way just because we were arguing, finding explicit text on phone once from women off one of these friend finder said he didn’t respond was escort but he just wanted to talk…(yea right). finding things like dual movie tickets stubs, dinner receipts for things I was not with him for yet he will deny he even saw the movie. To sum it up, there would always be an explanation for the foolessness and I was always willing to go along to get along.

In an effort to make more money in stable job, h is working out of state. His decision, I kinda felt this was partly to get away from home and expected some problems from the jump so I did not agree to this but did it anyway. About a month into this H and has been taking large sums out of checking account hundreds at a time ( claiming adult daughter needed it) at the same time I am noticing getting text messages from what I believe to be women. Also at this time h is being generally distant towards me. I even found that when I went to visits where he is he was talking to someone while I was there by talking to them earlier in morning while driving in to work and before he came back to hotel. I am the cell account mgr can see the calls and text but obviously don’t know what is being said. When I confront h he says he has no one to talk to and we always argue…what?!

So in the past I have prematurely made threats separation even divorce but always ended up agreeing to reconcile to keep the peace. We are in the middle of a ch 13 and I can’t even begin to figure out the implication of trying to do a divorce now. 

H refuses any kind of acknowledgment of wrong doing and keeps on with the activities cake eating to extreme. I don’t think I want to be married anymore given these circumstances but I’m afraid about the future. H was my 1st; don’t want to lose home, and family respect. He won’t come right out and divorce me and I have already done the false divorce alarm only to walk it back.

Currentl Status: h is busy setting up household since will be in other state and is not contributing to home expenses but says he will once he is settled in. I dont trust this so I have since stopped contributing to joint account and in process of separating expenses and went in plan b mode with no contact with h at this time. I am trying to focus on me and lose weight and clear head. H made unscheduled visit home and I was livid as I had not been return calls, text or, emails and don’t want to see him, h stayed in other room and drove back early next morning no argument with me as I refused to speak with him except to say leave since he thinks its okay to carryon with other women.

I’m at an impasse and clearly an amateur at this. Feeling so alone!! Any comments welcome

Sadly,
A wife that whirling (arandomlady)


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm sorry you are here, this is a good place to start:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


The site is a bit slow today in responses because of the weekend, but stick around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Since you are the manager of the cell phone account, you can contact the cell provider and see if you can apply for a record of the texts. I understand that this takes a while, but it might help you make the jump if you actually have some hard evidence.


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

Hey Alte Dame, thats a plan but pretty sure i will need a supena or court order will see... Thing is i dont know if getting evidence will cure the problem. In my mind it should be enough that I asked him to stop given the issues we have had


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

Hey Miss froggie, in my haste to bust him when i happened upon the accounts he is sure never to make that mistake again. I can see he is actually texting someone so to me that is worse. Proof would be nice to compel me into going foward. I dont put anything past h but at same time i'm torn thought he was a decent guy? i'm scared to go whole hog on the d the financial fallout alone is bad enough. if money and saving face were no issue i think i'd walk in heart beat


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

so its official you need a court order to obtain text messages... h secrecy gives me the answer I need


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Do you still {or can you} still like him as a friend? Someone you can BS over inanities across a beer with?


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

hey lost my religion. i dont know and its hard because i am a very a straightforward person and am not liking the deceit so leaning toward a no because the untrustworthyness. i mean he is a stand up guy in alot of ways but lacking where it counts within the marraige. its one thing to say hey i'm not happy then we can go from there...not i'm going to talk to other women then i find out then its oh,its because we argue... doubting myself big time here. i'm not perfect but at least i'm faithful


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

I apologize for that post arl. You're absoluetly correct. Being faithful is being honest.

And honesty in marriage is everythng.

Mickey of vodka and CWI on a Saturday night - not a good mix...

I'm gonna book off.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

arandomlady said:


> Hey Alte Dame, thats a plan but pretty sure i will need a supena or court order will see... Thing is i dont know if getting evidence will cure the problem. In my mind it should be enough that I asked him to stop given the issues we have had


You are correct you can't get the content of the texts without a subpoena. They can usually give you a record of sent and received (from phone #'s and times also if they were picture or video texts). My carrier Verizon keeps detailed phone records for 18 months available online and you can save to a PDF file, *text records only go back 90 days.

If you have legal reasons they'll comply with a subpoena and provide them with more. 

It sounds like you should stop concerning yourself with him. Do a hard 180 for you and move ahead without him. He's using you for his plan B. Sorry.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

arandomlady said:


> so its official you need a court order to obtain text messages... h secrecy gives me the answer I need


His secrecy and other behaviors do seem to be the answers.

Getting a court order isn't easy. If you have access to his phone there are ways of pulling up deleted texts. But you'd have to get access to his phone. Have you done a paid background check on him? One that will pull up social media sites, run a credit report on both you and him? Shut down any account he has access to. Put a fraud alert on your credit reports (so new credit can't be opened without you verifying)


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

If you need evidence help just ask but it sounds like you are past that.


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

kristin2349 said:


> You are correct you can't get the content of the texts without a subpoena. They can usually give you a record of sent and received (from phone #'s and times also if they were picture or video texts). My carrier Verizon keeps detailed phone records for 18 months available online and you can save to a PDF file, *text records only go back 90 days.
> 
> If you have legal reasons they'll comply with a subpoena and provide them with more.
> 
> It sounds like you should stop concerning yourself with him. Do a hard 180 for you and move ahead without him. He's using you for his plan B. Sorry.



Hey Kristen 2349,

I have the pages and pages of spreadsheets of the calls and thats what I confonted H with. We are living apart due to H job so no access to the actual phone.

I actually enjoying the time apart very much and currently have no contact with h except his surprise visit on Late friday. He drove back 8hrs very early the next morning after realizing I wasnt dealing with his bs. Yes I suspect I am the plan b as he had no fear of losing me given my weak threats in the past.


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

kristin2349 said:


> His secrecy and other behaviors do seem to be the answers.
> 
> Getting a court order isn't easy. If you have access to his phone there are ways of pulling up deleted texts. But you'd have to get access to his phone. Have you done a paid background check on him? One that will pull up social media sites, run a credit report on both you and him? Shut down any account he has access to. Put a fraud alert on your credit reports (so new credit can't be opened without you verifying)



I did the spokeo thing before and thats how I found out about the dating sites in the past. he cant be so stealth due to lack of money...

Our finances are a mess to say the least. We are going thru a ch 13 bk so fortunately no credit anymore. We own a home together (I'm still living it in it for now) Have 2 cars one paid off he is drving that on and other almost paid off. I am holding title to the car that paid for( to make sure he cant take a loan on it) only other major bill is the bk trustee payment which i'm worried about because if we are not on the same page with paying it, our case could be dismissed and that will would be catastophic

On the money front- i have royally pissed him off because i withdrew the bulk of my paycheck from the joint account which he didnt realize until he got back to his 
location. he had been taking out more than his share so i'm making sure to shore upmy portion of the account in a spearate one and sequent checks are going there. He is accusing me of stealing... (my own money mind you) and trying to stop him from being able to get an apt because now he doesnt have enough pay the deposit etc etc. thing is hes been taking lots of money out what he did with it...not my problem


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> If you need evidence help just ask but it sounds like you are past that.


hey Weightlifter, yeah for me the fact finding makes for more crazymaking. In the past I did that and got what i thought was enough evidence to shame him into stopping only to be met with gaslighting, blameshifting, and probably going under ground with the shanangians... i didnt know about TAM then so I have probably made every mistake there was and now am soglad I found this place and have been soaking in the info...if there are any pointers about no contact with the WS i thinks its called and for me going dark other than just ignoring him and separating money thats definately helpful


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

MissFroggie said:


> If you change your mind or need evidence for court etc Weightlifter is definitely the one to go to!
> 
> Have you had legal advice yet (sorry can't remember if you said you have)? It would be good to find out exactly how much you can do to protect yourself and as I understand it the things you can and can't do vary by state. Be strong hon, you'll get through this.



Thanks I sure hope so. we share the bk atty i dont really want to alert them to anything that will bring attention to the case unless h doesnt pay his share of the trustee payment. as far as a D atty, as we have no kids i dont think thats an expense i will need if i go that route. 

really i have every thing i need to show h has been behaving inappriopriately for some time now. even though he wont admit it, i am proceeding just like its a full blown pa i saw with my own eyes. i have been more than accomodating for too long afriad to be alone. However after living alone for the past 4 weeks i think i could do this... for good. it said because it would prove to a huge waste of time. to top it off now that h could stand to actually make decent money for first time in years i feel someone will reap when i had to stuggle - shallow i know


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

oh its a good thing you dont know...bk=bankrupcy ch13= type of bankrupcy restructuring of debt requires large monthy payment.

yes i think talking to a d atty would be great i just cant spare the expense since those consults arent free, esp since i may have to carry the whole household without h income. i have been doing some research on based on my state. 

I am sorry to learn you were treated that way but relieved to know you have come through the situation and able to provide guidance to others.

I am trying to take more responsibility instead of waiting for him to make up his mind, i'm making up my mind to live as if we are separated. geographically we are anyway and love wise not even on the same planet. 

not that i'm superstious but i was born in the chinese year of the horse, which is the current year as well so maybe this is the year i get some backbone...i have already shown more nerve in last few weeks than i have in my entire relationship


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

no real advice here, just sending you strength to get through this in one piece. it seems living apart just might make that easier.

sorry you are having to deal with this but i wish you good luck.


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

MissFroggie said:


> Ah okay. Sometimes terms get a bit confusing because they are different between UK and USA. I don't know how it is where you are, but here a lot of solicitors will give you a free consultation (something I have made use of before without going on to hire them). If you take a whole list of questions and rattle through them you can get quite a lot of information in one hour and if that advice proves incorrect or not the best advice for you they are liable for the misinformation, not you. Many do not advertise this (or they get chancers like me going to several of them to glean info free from each lol) so it could be worth calling them up and asking if they offer the first consultation free so you can decide whether to use them. If they do then it is still in their interest because if you've had good advice from them once you're more likely to go back to them if you ever need them to act on your behalf too.
> 
> I'm not superstitious either, but I do feel quite strongly that this year is a year for change and growth. I've been having a tough time and need to toughen up and fight a few things head-on too. You're already taking the first steps to change your life for the better and those are the most difficult - you've already had to be brave and courageous to make that decision  Stay strong hon and focus on achieving that peaceful and happy life you deserve  xx




Oh cool the UK awesome, i am not sure how far you are into your process but good luck. let's toughen up together. I literally have told no one about this... about the consults when i mention d and bk they are like thats complicated... i am still not talking to h but i will have to at some point to decide what we are doing about the house. neither of us can afford it on our own. we are upside down but were able to modify interest to 2% so and since in bk i cant just get another place so easily.. anyway thanks for yur support. i am rooting for you


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

cool12 said:


> no real advice here, just sending you strength to get through this in one piece. it seems living apart just might make that easier.
> 
> sorry you are having to deal with this but i wish you good luck.


Hey cool12, i appreciate that i hope you are getting thru your situation ok. this is really lousy


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Going dark means really no contact at all. You don't respond to his calls, texts, e-mails, etc. Doing a 180 means that you stay cool and polite, but don't get into any emotional discussion or show weakness of any kind.

It sounds like having him gone for a month has shown you that you might be happier without him and the worry and disrespect he brings to the M. I understand the financial elements, but he is already physically gone, so why not assume that you will divorce and just gradually get your ducks in line to do that? Get your free legal consultation to help you with a checklist. Keep distancing yourself from him emotionally.

He has shown you little respect. I would stick a fork in it.


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> Going dark means really no contact at all. You don't respond to his calls, texts, e-mails, etc. Doing a 180 means that you stay cool and polite, but don't get into any emotional discussion or show weakness of any kind.
> 
> It sounds like having him gone for a month has shown you that you might be happier without him and the worry and disrespect he brings to the M. I understand the financial elements, but he is already physically gone, so why not assume that you will divorce and just gradually get your ducks in line to do that? Get your free legal consultation to help you with a checklist. Keep distancing yourself from him emotionally.
> 
> He has shown you little respect. I would stick a fork in it.


I'm doing the no contact thing but this is triggering unannouced visits from h because i am not returning the calls, texts, or emails...

I am refreshingly emotionless about the relationship because of the blatant lack of respect but scared about the financial. I know what you're saying... I will have to prceed with the idea of loosing the house which sadly is my main concern. we live in a no fault community property state so I will have to get the ball rolling as you say with an atty. 

my h once described me as mrs bucket a reference to the bbc show that plays in us on PBS show "keeping up apperances"
( perhaps Miss Froggie heard of it) having to have things look a certain way to outsiders. he probably is counting on me to faulter just for this reason alone...

guess i have some more homework. thanks for clarification


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So don't be Hyacinth. Be Rose instead. She does what she wants.

If going dark is too much of a lure for him, try the 180. It will still help you detach:

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> So don't be Hyacinth. Be Rose instead. She does what she wants.
> 
> If going dark is too much of a lure for him, try the 180. It will still help you detach:
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180


touche...I will be Rose. lol I dont think i can pull the 180 again ..thats where i was just before all of this though probably not for long enough or even correctly. when i noticed that he seemed to incvrease his extracurricuar texting i lost it as we are apart and he wasnt even texting or calling me as much as this other person. ai yi yi


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

MissFroggie said:


> Ha ha ha, actually it's pronounce Booo-kaaaaay!
> 
> It would be nice to be able to never speak to him again or have anything to do with him again, but you're right that is't not possible right now. I ignored my ex completely and he turned up too - it's a bit different for you because he can just walk in and legally probably has every right to as well - my ex turned up at MY flat though. It was quite funny and he was so angry about it because he wanted to come in and I refused to let him in so we had a brief conversation over the intercom lol. He was so angry I wouldn't open the door
> 
> ...


BooKaay...of course. Yes because I am in the home we share and we havent taken any steps to dissolve anything i cant prevent him from coming home. he is an 8hr drive away and he only has a day or so off so i dont know why he would come home only to go right back. i think i will plan to get a hotel over the weekend in case he pulls the stunt again. I am wanting to just go nuclear but cant really back it up financially now and he cant either. I dont think i am consumed with thinking of our marriage so much as I am about the bottom line money wise 
(naturally transactional he would say) he is not going to do anyting to move this forward in separation and i cant afford to pay the d filing fee and do everything while he sits back in denial saying i am doing this for nothing because nothing is going on. anyway thanks for reply nice to vent


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

MissFroggie said:


> I can think of loads of reasons he'd do this - control probably being the biggest. Control, catching you out, knocking you off-guard, asserting authority, territorial behaviour - reminding you that he still has rights to the house etc, intimidation, a whole load of things right through to simply being able to use it to irritate you! He's keeping his foot in the door quite literally!
> 
> He's being a jerk, stay strong and do whatever you can to avoid stress for yourself or letting it irritate you. I must admit I'd be tempted to change the locks and then let him know after he gets annoyed about it that you lost your keys and needed to change them and had he let you know he was coming you'd have got his set ready for him lol. I might even do it just before going to a hotel too lol. That's probably not the best move, but when someone is passive-aggressive with me I find it hard not to get passive-aggressive with them...and show them who's better at it




Yeah I dont want any action I take now to comeback and bite me so have to play it cool though it would be awesome...I didnt see it that way but you are right because if we were on good terms no way would he come home for less than a day and drive back...even if he missed me so I guess the urge to intimdate is stronger than one of showing love and kindness...


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## arandomlady (Jan 18, 2014)

MissFroggie said:


> I wasn't meaning that you should actually do it hon, sorry, I wrote it in a hurry. It's best not to do anything like that but if you're anything like me then sometimes just knowing you _could_ makes you feel a bit less powerless. I don't think it would be smart to do anything that could provoke him or make things more complicated.
> 
> It sounds like you are hurting and maybe you would do well to think of something nice to do like meeting up with some friends or something else you like to do to relax or to feel good? I hope my post didn't make things worse  Big hugs hon x



oh I know you're joking but I'm not...lol had to talk myself out of it. no i appreciate your insight. I'm trying to shore up new friends in case i lose the mutual friends in case the worst happens. I'm kind of numb. take care ((hugs)) back to ya!


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