# My husband of 12 years I think has left me



## kell90s (Feb 20, 2019)

My childhood sweetheart husband and I have been together for 12 years since I was 16 and he 15. We got married 5 years ago and have two kids 3 and 1. Around 6 – 7 months ago we started having problems as my husband claimed that I was not giving him enough attention (sex) despite the fact that I am with the kids 100% and was in the process of readjusting to having two kids with the youngest having the worst sleeping behaviour. I was absolutely exhausted and having sex was the last thing I wanted at the end of the day. I also had my own issues with my husband as just after our youngest was born I felt like his priorities to the family were becoming distant and that work and work functions (drinking and partying) were becoming his number one priority as he is constantly on his phone or planning to attend functions without even consulting me first. We started seeing a therapist as our only way of communication to try and fix these issues ended in screaming matches with everyone walking away from the situation angry and frustrated.

I felt like therapy was going well after three months of weekly sessions and my husband decided that we should stop to which I assumed that we were back on the right path. He had changed a few lifestyle choices and has started going to the gym a lot and has lost over 60 pounds. Just before we stopped therapy I found messages on his phone of him sending and receiving progress photos but the other person was a woman. The conversations were not inappropriate with regards to the content of the messages but I was not happy because I truly believe that that is a line that should never be crossed when you are married or in a relationship period! My husband apologised and said he would stop. 

The last three months everything had calmed down and our youngest is in a better sleeping pattern and I have been giving my husband the ‘attention’ he was seeking. He has however, not dropped the usage of his phone to the point that even when bathing the kids he is using his phone and not really paying the kids any attention. I thought it would be a good idea to send the kids to either of our parents for a day on the weekends so we can just have us time. However, 9 days ago when my parents had the kids, we spent the day talking and he told me that he doesn’t think this is working anymore and that he has seriously considered the option of splitting. I told him that surely this cannot be an option as we love each other and have a family, investments, a business, and generally a great life and future together. He told me that he regrets getting married and admits that he has started resenting the kids as he believes that he has missed out on so many opportunities which I asked him to elaborate on which he refuses to answer the question. 

He says that I am boring and that I am not fun anymore because I don’t like to party and drink. My idea of fun is doing something with the kids as a family but apparently that is not good enough. I admitted to him that I have been neglectful to him and to the business and asked him to acknowledge that over the last three months I have been trying on making more of an effort on us which he thanked me for but said its still not enough for him.

He has been sleeping at his cousins for the last 8 days as he claims that he wants space. I feel like I am walking on egg shells in fear of losing my husband and the more I try the more he gets further and further away. 

3 days ago he told me that he is very serious about splitting as he cannot get past the anger he has and the more I try to fix things it makes him angrier. He told me that he won’t stop me from telling anyone as he understands that I need the support to which I told my Mother and she immediately came over to support me and has been the rock for me over the last few days. I then told him that I had told my Mother and he went absolutely ballistic and said that he was testing me to see how far I would go which is just so confusing as he told me I can tell people. He asked me to leave the house so he can come home and pack his belongings and he was too angry and didn’t want to see me in person. I drove around the streets with the kids in the car until he messaged me and told me he had left. I have not heard from him since and he has not responded to my attempts to call and message him.

I feel so scared and overwhelmed that this is the end and I don’t know what to do. I was always one of those people that judged others who go through marital problems as I was always confident that I would never be in this position. I was so complacent with my marriage and now I feel so lost I don’t know what to do. I chose my husband thinking that I would be safe with him thinking that my future would be secure and happy. Now I am at loose ends and have no idea what to do from hereon.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your husband is not mature enough to be raising children and just wants the single mans partying lifestyle.
You need to see a lawyer and also make sure he at least is financially responsible for his children,and it clear to anyone who asks exactly why he left.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You husband is most likely having an affair from what you wrote. Do you have access to his cell phone bill? IF you do, check to see if there is one number that he communicates with a lot.

Look at link in my signature block below for the "180". That is how you need to interact with him going forward. Right now he's in a fog and there is nothing you to fix this because he's not ready to hear it. The 180 is done to protect yourself from the lousy say he is treating you.

You also need to see a lawyer and get him/her to file for divorce. The reason I say this is that you need to get the court to order interim spousal support and child support. Until you do that, he does not have to support you and the children. So it gives him a lot of power to play nasty games with you. Keep in mind that even if you file for divorce, you do not have to finalize the divorce. A lot of couples file for divorce and then work things out and stop the divorce process. And there is always re-marriage afterwards a well.

Do you have access to all the legal and financial paperwork, on line accounts for the bank, investments, etc?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your husband is waving many red flags. I also highly suspect an affair. He settled on a mate very young, never got to be a fun loving single adult partying and hooking up, he's missed out on a lot of experiences, and now he's regretting that decision. This is not uncommon for High School Sweetheart marriages and is one of the reasons why High School Sweetheart marriages have such a high failure rate.

What do you do? You consult a lawyer, file for child support, and make him be responsible for his obligations.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Wow! He is acting like quite a gem, isn’t he? What type of a dad has he been to your babies?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He is cheating. And he is blaming you for all the problems in the marriage as a way to gaslight you so you dont catch onto what he is doing. Dig around for proof if you feel that is what you need, but does it even matter since he wants out so badly? He wants to be a party boy, not a responsible family man... is this really what you want in a husband? I agree with Elegirl, file for divorce. Give him what he thinks he wants and make sure he pays. You dont need this man-child in your life and your kids deserve a better dad.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

He is involved with another woman. 

If you live in an at-fault divorce state and can get a better divorce settlement and more child support if it is proven that he is in an affair and using family funds to support the affair, then hire a private investigator to prove infidelity. 

If you live in a no-fault state, then a pit-bull divorce attorney and get as much child and spousal support as you can.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

There is a huge temptation to post mortem the relationship. But that won't help Kell. 
Kell, What you need is legal help and emotional support. You are going through a major loss, and you will grieve it thoroughly before it is over.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Kell, based on experience I would wager that your husband is now in at least an emotional affair, if not a physical one. He is in the justification stage of the affair, blaming his bad behavior on you. You need to protect yourself. If you have access to funds, please have him followed. You need to know the character of the beast you are confronting. Secondarily, you will need to find counsel. Get to know your rights and obligations under the law. They vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. If you have parents, by all means stay with them. You are in need of a support system. It appears that you are burnt out from rearing your children and caring for your home all alone. He resents you not drinking and partying. That is the earmark of a highly immature individual. The quantum leap between the immaturity showing itself as resentment and infidelity is not that great a distance. Please establish a support system as soon as possible, it will be your salvation during this process.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

IMO: he is making excuses, wants to party, try out new girlfriends, and mostly to escape responsibility.

Don't second guess your actions as a mom and wife. See a lawyer to protect the interests of you and your family. Are you a stay at home mom? Was he your only serious boyfriend? 

Glad you have your family's support. What does his family think? You may want to be checked for STD's. Times are going to be tough for a while.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm sorry you're in this situation. He's cheating, clearly, and has already written you off as old news. Note this this is VERY common for couples who get together as teenagers. The brain doesn't stop growing and evolving until you're about 25, so the person you are at 16 is completely different from the person you are at 28. 

Not sure why you'd want him back, but I'll go ahead and tell you the best way to get him back: Pack all his stuff that he left behind, take it to a storage facility, pay one month's rent, and go see him and hand him the key and the address, tell him that if he doesn't get his stuff out of storage or pay for it, they will sell off his stuff. 

Then go home, text him to contact your mom for anything about the kids, and block him from your phone. Change the locks (keep the old ones) so he can't walk into the house anymore. Then just sit back and wait. You will scare the CRAP out of him; trust me on this. He expects you to be sitting there at home like a good little mommy, while he goes off and sees how many girls he can score (it's a guy thing). OH, and tell everyone else that he left you guys - his family and yours, and your joint friends.

He may DO this initially, but it's a fair bet once he realizes you're serious, that you're going to divorce him for leaving you, he'll come back hat in hand. 

Note, however, that this is NOT a guarantee. I'm not telling you he absolutely will come home and get over his 7-year itch. I'm telling you that my directions are the best bet you have of it happening.

That said, if he DOES come home, you need to come to a realization that, to most men, having regular sex is more important than just about anything, and they WILL cheat or divorce without it. So if he comes back, you're going to have to figure out how to stop putting your kids first. Marriage first, then kids, ok? We could have told you this was coming when you put all your focus on the kids and stopped having sex.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> That said, if he DOES come home, you need to come to a realization that, to most men, having regular sex is more important than just about anything, and they WILL cheat or divorce without it. *So if he comes back, you're going to have to figure out how to stop putting your kids first. Marriage first, then kids, ok? We could have told you this was coming when you put all your focus on the kids and stopped having sex.*


Agree that marriage needs to come first.. but.. In her defense, he hasnt bothered to be an active, participating father/partner when it comes to the kids, so he shoulders some of the blame on this part too. No woman is going to feel loving toward her H when she is stretched to the point of breaking and exhaustion. They are HIS kids too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No question about that, but she seems to want him back, so first things first. If he comes back, we'll help you learn how to set boundaries in your marriage so you both get what you need.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

He is having an affair. You need to prepare for that. nobody leaves their little kids in the house and goes off just because the spouse is boring. That is not normal. 

If you investigate a little further you may well get to the root of the problems. You are fairly vulnerable at present. You need another adult near you. Your mum seems to be there for you. Stay close. You got children to look after.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Oh Kell I'm sorry you are here. Your husband is out with a new girlfriend. That is why you r boring to him. Girlfriend is probably young and single with no kids to take care of. 

I know you love him, but he is not worth it dear. He is immature and probably always has been. Protect yourself and especially the kids by filing for child support. Get a lawyer and start the process. If you have a business together, you need to look into that with your lawyer as well.

I am so glad your mom is there to help you out.


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## kell90s (Feb 20, 2019)

Thank you everyone for your support. Your suggestions and advice are truly appreciated. However, the suggestions to file for divorce etc seem to be so extreme at this stage and this avenue of thought completely scares me. I fear that I will push him away further and all I want to do is try and fix it. My husband is my guy, he is the one I chose to be with and grow a family with. To have a great future with.

I have noticed that since he has been at the gym and going sometimes apparently up to three times a day that his behaviour is more erratic and he has the shortest fuse of late.

I am not overly concerned with money at this stage because my parents have a silent financial interest in our business and the remaining share is split between my husband and I. I have full access to everything and out of curiosity have checked to see if any unusual transactions have taken place which they haven’t. On the suggestion of someone earlier here, I checked his phone record and there is nothing out of the ordinary.

He finally made contact today as he wants to see the kids on the weekend and I asked him what we do from here and what the future looks like and he wants everything to remain the same except that we are no longer together. I asked him what that meant as it makes no sense to me and he said that financially everything should stay the same but it will just mean that he lives elsewhere and he said that apparently a lot of husband and wives separate, but still run businesses together. I told him that that is not how I envisioned my future and think we should go back to therapy which he was not open to at all.

My husband has just become the most unreasonable person I know and I feel like I don’t know this person. Everything I do or say is used against me and I am made to be the worst person in the world. He just goes from level headed to horrible in seconds. The most horrible thing he said to me on the phone today was that he settled for me and keeps saying over and over again that he has missed out on so many opportunities. What does this even mean? I told him that if this means he wants to go and sleep with other women while we are separated then I don’t know if I can come back from that because we are still married despite his steps taken to leave me.

He is so angry that I have divulged our situation to my parents and keeps going on and on about it despite the fact that he told me to basically tell them because I needed support. I don’t understand and again I am the bad person! I know I neglected the marriage and admit to him that I put the kids first before the marriage but I just don’t understand why he isn’t reasoning and being open to me wanting to try to be better and work on this. He just simply has given up!

My bestfriend which he doesn’t know that I have told her and my Mother both think that he is either having an affair or is on drugs. I am too afraid to tell his family or any more of mine or even other friends because I just find this situation humiliating. I am so embarrassed! 

My husband was always preaching in social situations that he would never cheat and would judge people that have been through that. Surely that should allow for something or am I just stupid? I just don’t know what to do anymore. I am sick of this feeling of loss and crying at the drop of a hat. My kids don’t deserve this life.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I am really sorry for what you are going through. Everyone else gave good advice, I just want to add that since you said you have a business together, if this does end in divorce, don't forget that as his spouse, you own half of that business. Even if he does all the work. He will have to keep you as a partner or buy you out.

Also - don't forget about the book EleGirl suggested you read. It will really help. Most people are saying "He's having an affair, file for divorce" and sadly, they're probably right. But following that good advice won't help how very emotionally devastating this must be. Begging him to come back and calling and emailing him will simply drive him further away. Read the book I think it will help you protect your heart and your dignity and give you the best chance of winning him back. Though I suspect if you do, you may find you no longer want him.

So glad you have your mom's love and support.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

kell90s said:


> Thank you everyone for your support. Your suggestions and advice are truly appreciated. However, the suggestions to file for divorce etc seem to be so extreme at this stage and this avenue of thought completely scares me. I fear that I will push him away further and all I want to do is try and fix it. My husband is my guy, he is the one I chose to be with and grow a family with. To have a great future with.
> 
> I have noticed that since he has been at the gym and going sometimes apparently up to three times a day that his behaviour is more erratic and he has the shortest fuse of late.
> 
> ...


First off, I'm sorry, and hope things work out.

Since your husband has refused a elaborate further on what troubles him, it leaves a lot of guess work. So I'll stick with what he has actually said. Specifically, that he resents the kids, wants more attention from you, and that he settled.

You mentioned that he's lost 60 lbs., and goes to the gym regularly. May I ask about you? Are you in shape? If not, his statement that he "settled" for you, is (possibly) driven by you being out of shape, coupled with the renewed attention he is receiving from other women now that he is in much better shape himself. So it could be that women who are physically more desirable are now desirous of him. Which when coupled with you not having sex with him, makes him feel short-changed, and trapped. So my first bit of advice would be to start exercising - a lot. Get into better shape than he is.

I know it's tough, but you need to stop being so nice. It will not get you results. For instance, leaving the house with the kids so he could collect his things... don't do something like that again. You should not bend over backwards for him. You are pin-balling between extremes - neglect, and now attentiveness. Success lies in balance. Respect him, but also respect yourself. Value him and his desires, but also value yours. Don't leave the house and drive around aimlessly just because he demanded it. He had no right to ask you to leave, and demanding it was disrespectful. Be balanced. Don't let him run rough-shod over you.

I think him being involved on some level with another woman is likely. He may not be having a physical affair, but I would suspect he's entertaining other women. If he didn't have better (in his mind) options available, he wouldn't feel like, or state, that he "settled". I would subtly keep an eye on him, the phone bill, and even put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car somewhere hidden. If you can afford it, hiring a PI to follow him for a weekend would likely shed light on some things. If you discover proof that he's involved with someone else, then I would immediately expose what he's doing to his family. Affairs die when they're exposed to the light of day. I'll say that again - expose him to his family.

So right now, keep an eye on him, respect yourself, and get into killer shape. Whatever other women are involved, are likely at this gym he attends. If you can turn his head back to you, by being strong (self-respect, self-fulfillment), while also having a great physique, then he'll likely start feeling like he's missing out by being away from you, rather than feeling trapped. Your goal is to make being with you such a sweet deal, that he'd be a fool to walk away.

Your husband is being a real tool. But if you want to get him back, the above is what I would suggest.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The phone bill isn’t going to show you anything because cheaters don’t normally use the text feature on their phones or make phone calls. They go through apps such as Snapchat, WhatsApp, Google... none of which will show up on your phone bill. Or they have a burner phone they hide from their spouse. Him going to the gym three times a day is a bright blazing red flag. Time for you to stop being nice and get angry. He is gaslighting you and deflecting blame, don’t let him get away with that. He is angry with you because he is married to you therefore cannot be either with his affair partner, or available to random women if there isn’t an active affair currently. (Which I have no doubt there is) 

The man you love is gone, sad to say. Time to get pissed and stand up for yourself, and if that means filing for divorce, then that’s what you do. You deserve so much better than someone who has zero respect for you and resents you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

First off let me say I own a gym.
If your husband is going to a gym up to three times a day then he is using steroids. He needs them to repair the muscles he is using,otherwise he would have to take at least a days break between sessions. 
This will contribute greatly to his short temper. There may also be other signs such as skin problems and ironically,a lack of sex drive. 
Look up roid rage,it’s a term used to describe the angry outbursts of people using steroids. 
You need to be careful around him because if he’s on a steroid cycle and you make him mad he could physically assault you. 
Talk to a lawyer and find out what the law in your state is in regards to drug testing and child visitation. Do not let him know that you are doing this.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

kell90s said:


> .
> 
> He finally made contact today as he wants to see the kids on the weekend and I asked him what we do from here and what the future looks like and he wants everything to remain the same except that we are no longer together. I asked him what that meant as it makes no sense to me and he said that financially everything should stay the same but it will just mean that he lives elsewhere and he said that apparently a lot of husband and wives separate, but still run businesses together. I told him that that is not how I envisioned my future and think we should go back to therapy which he was not open to at all.
> I wouldn't believe what he tells you. "Lots of couples separate and work fine together".
> ...


YOU don't deserve this either. Please take care of yourself -- eat, get plenty of sleep, exercise, etc..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kell:

In your situation, fear is your worst enemy.

What are you actually scared of in following @turnera's advice (which is absolutely spot on)? Do you fear losing him? Do you fear losing the marriage?

Guess what: you already have.

Your attitude of acquiescing to his bad behavior is exactly why he continues to do it. I suspect this is what you have done for your marriage so it is all you know to do. 

You are going to have to reach the point where you have simply had enough of this. Please...for your sake...love yourself enough to reach that point soon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kell90s said:


> Thank you everyone for your support. Your suggestions and advice are truly appreciated. However, the suggestions to file for divorce etc seem to be so extreme at this stage and this avenue of thought completely scares me. I fear that I will push him away further and all I want to do is try and fix it.


kell, I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every betrayed spouse who has said 'but it will push him away!'

We aren't telling you to do this because we want to punish him. Our job here is to try to save your marriage. I've been doing this for more than 10 years; I've seen thousands of women in your predicament in that time. And I can count on one hand the number of women who stayed married and got their husband to stop cheating by being nicer to him. Ok, honestly, I can only think of one.

Why? Because it's basic psychology. Men are horndogs (sorry, men). They want sex more often than women, usually. In fact, they think about it all the time. So they have this push/pull in that they want more sex than you're willing to give, but they want you and the family. So when they do cross the line and start cheating, and the wife becomes basically a doormat and begs him to come home, picks the 'choose me!' dance, guess what he thinks?

He thinks, huh, how about that? I can go screw as many women as I want, and THIS woman will LET me! How can I lose?

This is why we tell you to immediately pack his stuff, send him on his way, and tell him you won't share him and you'll be moving on. His first reaction will be 'wait! that's not what I wanted! I wanted to be able to come home and play house and still go out and screw other women! What do you mean you won't let me do that?'

And a tiny bit of respect for you grows in his mind. And a tiny bit of fear that he will lose you, his family, and his reputation. 

Trust me, you don't want to be his doormat, just to have his physical body sleeping in your home. You won't be able to survive that. And the ONLY way, psychologically, that he will ever choose you again is if he fears you will divorce him if he strays again. It's basic psychology, and that's how we know it's your only option. That, and the fact that we've watched this act out thousands of times, and the ONLY (aside from that one) times men stop cheating is when the woman says "Nope. I won't share you, if you're going to do this, I won't take you."

PS: You have no reason to be embarrassed. What you SHOULD be is furious. HE is the person doing wrong; you've done nothing wrong. Call his family today and tell them what he's doing.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Tunera is right.

I'd also like to add that even if you don't take any of this advice, divorce will be the outcome because what you're asking for is impossible. You're asking us for ways to control what your husband is doing. There is nothing that you can do or say right now that will change what he is doing. NOTHING. And if you doubt that, pick up a copy of "Codependent No More" and let an expert inform you otherwise.

The only thing that you can do right now is believe him when he says he wants a separation and deal with that reality. See a lawyer. You don't have to file anything yet but get some information just in case he stops paying rent and bills. Get a therapist and start exploring why you want someone back who treats you so poorly and how you can stay strong in case everything explodes and he either files for divorce himself or tries to get out of helping pay for your family. Your biggest focus right now should be protecting you and your kids while he tries to tear your family apart.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> First off let me say I own a gym.
> If your husband is going to a gym up to three times a day then he is using steroids. He needs them to repair the muscles he is using,otherwise he would have to take at least a days break between sessions.
> This will contribute greatly to his short temper. There may also be other signs such as skin problems and ironically,a lack of sex drive.
> Look up roid rage,it’s a term used to describe the angry outbursts of people using steroids.
> ...


Wow, this is very interesting, I never would have thought of this!


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Put his stuff on the curb.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> > That said, if he DOES come home, you need to come to a realization that, to most men, having regular sex is more important than just about anything, and they WILL cheat or divorce without it. So if he comes back, you're going to have to figure out how to stop putting your kids first. Marriage first, then kids, ok? We could have told you this was coming when you put all your focus on the kids and stopped having sex.
> ...


Yeah, don't blame her for her husband's ****ty actions. They both had the kids, and they both should have changed priorities away from the partying lifestyle. The fact that she did and he didn't doesn't make her responsible for his actions.

Sure, the marriage dynamic changed when sex became less frequent with the addition of children, but that was his responsibility to address with communication and doing his fair share of parenting, not by abandoning his family and (probably) cheating on his wife.

You're better off without this selfish jerk, and so are your children. Be gentle on yourself as you navigate the betrayal and trauma, but be like steel with him. You want him back because that's all you know, but what you want back is the man you thought you had, not the real him. It's so highly unlikely that he'll have a magical epiphany that transforms him into that man, that you shouldn't waste energy hoping or planning for it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

kell90s said:


> My childhood sweetheart husband and I have been together for 12 years since I was 16 and he 15. We got married 5 years ago and have two kids 3 and 1. Around 6 – 7 months ago we started having problems as my husband claimed that I was not giving him enough attention (sex) despite the fact that I am with the kids 100% and was in the process of readjusting to having two kids with the youngest having the worst sleeping behaviour. I was absolutely exhausted and having sex was the last thing I wanted at the end of the day. I also had my own issues with my husband as just after our youngest was born I felt like his priorities to the family were becoming distant and that work and work functions (drinking and partying) were becoming his number one priority as he is constantly on his phone or planning to attend functions without even consulting me first. We started seeing a therapist as our only way of communication to try and fix these issues ended in screaming matches with everyone walking away from the situation angry and frustrated.
> 
> I felt like therapy was going well after three months of weekly sessions and my husband decided that we should stop to which I assumed that we were back on the right path. He had changed a few lifestyle choices and has started going to the gym a lot and has lost over 60 pounds. Just before we stopped therapy I found messages on his phone of him sending and receiving progress photos but the other person was a woman. The conversations were not inappropriate with regards to the content of the messages but I was not happy because I truly believe that that is a line that should never be crossed when you are married or in a relationship period! My husband apologised and said he would stop.
> 
> ...


Your husband is using a smoke screen. He is acting really guilty. A man never leaves unless he is leaving to something, he wants space why? He is ready to walk out on you and his family. I would investigate further, he is probably having a fling with that woman who he is always texting. Do not beg, cry, etc. Do the 180 on him.
Go see a lawyer, expose him, tell all about what is happening, (give him less room to manoeuvre), start investigating phone bill, his movements, etc. Have a PI follow him. Get yourself a good support network and therapy if possible as you are in for a long ride.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

kell90s said:


> Thank you everyone for your support. Your suggestions and advice are truly appreciated. However, the suggestions to file for divorce etc seem to be so extreme at this stage and this avenue of thought completely scares me. I fear that I will push him away further and all I want to do is try and fix it. My husband is my guy, he is the one I chose to be with and grow a family with. To have a great future with.
> 
> I have noticed that since he has been at the gym and going sometimes apparently up to three times a day that his behaviour is more erratic and he has the shortest fuse of late.
> 
> ...


You are simply not listening to the advice given here, you are still begging and pleading and do everything that makes things easy for him. He is no longer your loving husband, your love, your best friend. He has dumped you (harsh I know) and now wants everything according to his own game plan. He is definitely cheating or about to cheat. You have to be willing to lose this marriage to save it and you are not doing that.
If you do not take decisive action now, he will know that he can do whatever he likes and you will still accept it, you are setting yourself up for a life of pain. You need to come out strong and show him that you have self respect and are willing to move on in your life without him.

1. Go for a consultation with a lawyer, set up scheduled visitation, he is not allowed to come see kids whenever he wants, he walked out
2. Draw up divorce papers
3. Do the 180, go no contact
4. Tell him all contact from now on must be through your lawyer
5. No crying, reasoning, begging, nothing 
6. Tell all family, his family, friends what has happened, do not cover for him or his bad behaviour
7. Investigate, his movements. Check his social media accounts, put a VAR in his car, etc


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

OK, filtering out a lot of static here, however, your husband's behavior is bizarre to say the least. You say he hit the gym sometimes 3 times in one day? Is his behavior sometimes aggressive, and sometimes brooding and sullen? I wonder if you are dealing with possible drug intake, or hormones for the gym. Something here is just not adding up.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@kell90s is he using illegal steroids at the gym?


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## kell90s (Feb 20, 2019)

I don't even know where to begin after the week and bit I have had. So much has happened and I am just angry now. 

I confronted my husband and asked him if he has slept with someone before he walked out and he said no and denied, denied and denied. I could tell he was being dishonest so kept on him and he told me that he had slept with someone since he left. Little does he know that not last Friday but the Friday before I went to the doctor as I was starting to experience pain when going to the bathroom. The doctor suspected an STD and sure enough a few days later I got called to go back and I tested positive. I confronted my husband again about this when he came around to help put the kids to bed and he started accusing me of sleeping around which is ridiculous as I have only been with one man in my life and that is him and he keeps saying that its impossible as he only slept with someone after he left.

I went through his phone and found a heap of messages in Whatsapp from the girl that he was messaging months ago from the gym and sure enough he confessed that she was the one he slept with but apparently only since we have separated and that he has never cheated. I obviously don't believe a word he says as the medical results confirm otherwise.

My brother also has seen a photo of my husband on SnapChat injecting something which I also confronted my husband about and he at first denied taking any illicit drugs but then confessed after I showed him the photo my brother sent me of him injecting (which is apparently something called Trenadol) and says he will stop using it soon once he has reached his goal. 

I just don't understand how your goals are to take drugs (when you work as a medical professional), leave your wife and kids and literally destroy your own life. 

I was so close to blowing his cover last week to his parents. I was sitting in the car outside his Mothers workplace ready to go in and tell her what is going on but I didn't. I don't know why I am protecting him and I know everyone here will think I am being stupid but I just can't help but think that there is still the slightest hope that the light bulb comes on and he comes back and we work on this together.

I feel like I am losing control and am constantly browsing his social media and looking at the accounts etc. I have found the other woman on his Facebook I am pretty certain as I told him that I am going to contact her and he got really angry so I am fairly confident that she is the one.

With respect to legal advice, I am definitely going to do this despite my want to hold off and wait for that light bulb moment. I just worry that this will make it so real for him and he digs his heels in even more. I am worried about the consequences I will face with him by taking this step.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

kell90s said:


> I don't know why I am protecting him and I know everyone here will think I am being stupid but I just can't help but think that there is still the slightest hope that the light bulb comes on and he comes back and we work on this together.
> 
> With respect to legal advice, I am definitely going to do this despite my want to hold off and wait for that light bulb moment. I just worry that this will make it so real for him and he digs his heels in even more. I am worried about the consequences I will face with him by taking this step.


So, he's been a party boy who thinks you're boring because you behave like a married adult, he's been cheating on you, he gave you an STD, left you, has been lying to you left, right, and center, and has been taking drugs to shortcut his way to his physical appearance goals, and you're waiting for a "light bulb moment"? Why? Because you've never been with anyone else and are scared? At best, he'll come crawling back when Plan A doesn't work and he decides to activate Plan B (you)...until the next time he finds someone who will stand still long enough to let him **** her.

But, if you're that desperate to keep a man, any man, then I suggest you tell EVERYONE. You want a light bulb moment? Those tend to occur when the affair has been outed. Affairs thrive in fantasy land. Once people find out, **** starts to get real.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

kell90s said:


> I don't even know where to begin after the week and bit I have had. So much has happened and I am just angry now.
> 
> I confronted my husband and asked him if he has slept with someone before he walked out and he said no and denied, denied and denied. I could tell he was being dishonest so kept on him and he told me that he had slept with someone since he left. Little does he know that not last Friday but the Friday before I went to the doctor as I was starting to experience pain when going to the bathroom. The doctor suspected an STD and sure enough a few days later I got called to go back and I tested positive. I confronted my husband again about this when he came around to help put the kids to bed and he started accusing me of sleeping around which is ridiculous as I have only been with one man in my life and that is him and he keeps saying that its impossible as he only slept with someone after he left.
> 
> ...


Kells90 as I said earlier you are not listening, what most of us predicted is happening. Now you MUST expose him to your family, his family everyone. Hiding and covering is just creating a private hell for yourself, is that what you want? If he is exposed then he will have to deal with his ****! He has given you an STD for goodness sake! Why are you trying to save this POS!
Dont ask his permission to contact anyone, expose him. then get the papers and throw that at him, he will soon wake up. Ask your parents to go with your to speak to his parents. Out the woman too, is she married?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> *So, he's been a party boy who thinks you're boring because you behave like a married adult, he's been cheating on you, he gave you an STD, left you, has been lying to you left, right, and center, and has been taking drugs to shortcut his way to his physical appearance goals, and you're waiting for a "light bulb moment"? *Why? Because you've never been with anyone else and are scared? At best, he'll come crawling back when Plan A doesn't work and he decides to activate Plan B (you)...until the next time he finds someone who will stand still long enough to let him **** her.


Good lord, do you not think you deserve a better man than this?? You would be 100% better off by yourself! He is a disgusting human being! HE GAVE YOU A DISEASE! And continues to lie right in your face. He isnt worth fighting for!


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

He has endangered your physical health, knowingly. 

This is a crime in most western countries, and for good reason.

It's bad enough the psychological toll this has taken on you, but if the STD confirmation was not the final straw, then what is...?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kell90s said:


> I was so close to blowing his cover last week to his parents. I was sitting in the car outside his Mothers workplace ready to go in and tell her what is going on but I didn't. I don't know why I am protecting him and I know everyone here will think I am being stupid but I just can't help but think that there is still the slightest hope that the light bulb comes on and he comes back and we work on this together.
> 
> I feel like I am losing control and am constantly browsing his social media and looking at the accounts etc. I have found the other woman on his Facebook I am pretty certain as I told him that I am going to contact her and he got really angry so I am fairly confident that she is the one.


You're going about this all wrong. You are giving HIM all the power. The only way to stop a cheater from cheating is to confront and expose. You confronted, but you're afraid to expose. Unless you are just done and you're calling a lawyer today to file for divorce, call his mother, his family, his best friends, let them know about the STD, and tell them that you're giving him ONE CHANCE and if they care about him, they will let him know he needs to get his act together or you will be GONE. 

Then you sit back and wait. Yes he will be mad. That's good. That means exposure worked. Now he will have a choice to make: choose to keep his life and his reputation or throw it all away for this 'high' he's getting from being buff and having women chase him.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Expose him to his parent, his family, your family, etc.. They need to know that he is using the drugs, has an STD and has cheated on you. Right now, he is telling THEM the separation is all your fault. He is re-writing your marital history and you need to set the record straight.
You are doing him NO FAVORS by allowing this to remain hidden, and you SURE aren't helping yourself by doing so.
He's in the fog of the affair -- nothing other than major shocks will wake him up (exposure, telling the POSOW bf/husband, handing him D papers), and even THAT isn't guaranteed.

EDT: BTW, you need to capture ALL evidence here -- chats, the pics of him injecting himself, etc. and make sure you have multiple copies, and not all at your house.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> HE GAVE YOU A DISEASE!


That's bad, but take the thought further. He's been having unprotected sex. It is entirely possible he'll impregnate someone. First he brings home a disease. Next he'll bring home a baby.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, you can wait for that light bulb moment until hell freezes over but I wouldn't advise it. Even if he came back it's unlikely he would change. Who knows what he would expose you to next time. And there would be a next time. Why? Because life's all about him and not at all about you in his eyes. 

Don't be foolish.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I told you ten days ago that your husband was using steroids and now I’m going to tell you something else. 
The steroid Trenbolone has a nickname amongst the brain dead muscle bound ****wits who use it. 
It’s called “divorce in a bottle”.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Sure its not trenbolone he's using - its alot like deca durobalin which is injectable. From what I remember trenadol was some crappy pro-hormone you could purchase at nutritional stores and was like a 2 step prohormone to something like dianabol. FDA banned it like 10 years ago. Not that it matters much, he's obviously a douche so dump his a$$


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> First off let me say I own a gym.
> If your husband is going to a gym up to three times a day then he is using steroids. He needs them to repair the muscles he is using,otherwise he would have to take at least a days break between sessions.
> This will contribute greatly to his short temper. There may also be other signs such as skin problems and *ironically,a lack of sex drive.*
> Look up roid rage,it’s a term used to describe the angry outbursts of people using steroids.
> ...


That was never my experience. Years ago I dabbled with a few cycles - nothing fancy just a synthetic test like sustanon and dianabol tabs, but when I was on if the wind blew and I was horny. Absolutely rediculous. It was after I came off that for a few weeks it was impossible to get excited since for the previous 2 months my test levels would b 10,000 times the normal amount and so your body shuts down your natural production. The hottest playmate could have thrown herself at me after I came off and there would be no interest until my natral levels returned. But when I was on Katie bar the door!!!!:smile2:


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Kell, he decided he didn't want married life after your kids were born. His first step in leaving was going to the gym to buff up so he'd be more appealing as he started leading his single life. He has been gone from your marriage for this long--his choice, not your fault.

He has unprotected sex, lies, belittles you, bring home disease. Unfortunately the boy you fell in love with grew up into a selfish *******. He will be a poor example for your kids. Should he return, you would be a fool to reconcile because it will be a matter of time until he searches for his next missed opportunity. Wishing for a light-bulb revelation is foolish. It takes courage and energy to rise above his ****.

You sound young and responsible, not the playgirl he wants. Where do you want to be in five years--still begging? The best revenge is taking care of yourself, succeeding in life, leaving him in his drug infused dust. Don't let him pull you down. You were the diamond in this match and he is seemingly on the rocks.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Time to get angry. Time to start realizing that you and the kids are the prize.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

SongoftheSouth said:


> That was never my experience. Years ago I dabbled with a few cycles - nothing fancy just a synthetic test like sustanon and dianabol tabs, but when I was on if the wind blew and I was horny. Absolutely rediculous. It was after I came off that for a few weeks it was impossible to get excited since for the previous 2 months my test levels would b 10,000 times the normal amount and so your body shuts down your natural production. The hottest playmate could have thrown herself at me after I came off and there would be no interest until my natral levels returned. But when I was on Katie bar the door!!!!:smile2:


Slight threadjack. Get your cholesterol levels checked if you’re using trenbolone.


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## kell90s (Feb 20, 2019)

The last few weeks have been a bit crazy. I thought my husband might be coming around in his head as he was showing signs of remorse for what he has done and we spent half a day together talking. I thought he was coming back to me but all he wanted was sex. I was silly enough to let my guard down and we did it. A part of me let it happen to get back at the other woman and another part made me feel like I still had something with him. He clearly was just horny and wanted to get his rocks off at that moment as as soon as we were done, he got up, walked out without saying a word and left. 

I reached out to the other woman and told her that we had slept together again and explained what pain his actions and her contribution is has caused me and my family. She never responded but I can see that she read the message on messenger.

He has claimed that he is no longer on drugs which his temper isn’t so erratic at the moment so I truly hope he is now clean for his own sake.

He has since divulged that he has booked a holiday with her for two weeks to Hawaii. This smack in the face has just made me so angry that he is using our family funds to fund his affair. He claims that he is in too deep with the other woman but I feel like he is just saying that to try and keep my hopes up.

He ended up telling his family which his parents have been really supportive to me. His father is disgusted and has stopped talking to him and I have told him that at the end of the day, he is still your son and that he needs to be there for him. His sister forms the same view as her fathers unfortunately so hopefully they will come around. His mother is worried and is trying to get him to move in with them. Her words were ‘he has gone off the rails and needs my help’ so I really hope he accepts his mothers support.

I have put the wall up now. I am angrier than hurt now. I have changed the locks in the house, I have put restrictions to him visiting the kids. I don’t feel comfortable him taking the kids away from the house so he was to visit them with my father present while I am out of the house as I don’t want to see him. He has thankfully agreed to this for the time being. I am trying my hardest to focus on myself now as my parents sat me down and expressed their concerns as my weight is down to 119. I am making an effort to eat properly and also have started to work out early morning while the kids are still asleep as it really does help make you feel good about yourself.

My husband still does not want our financial position changing. He still wants to support the kids and I and keep everything joint. I have told him that that is not something I really think is appropriate considering that he is basically in a relationship with the woman he is having an affair with. He is pushing to open another clinic and I think he might be a bit anxious as my parents are silent partners and have a financial interest in the business hence him pushing to keep everything the same financially. I said to him that it would be something I need to really think about (I only said that to him to give me time to prepare). 

I have done some reading and am now gathering all of the information I need regarding incomes, debts, expenses and assets etc. I am making a list of things in the house that are his and mine with approximate dates of when we acquired certain items. I have double up copies of literally everything I have and have a friend that has the backup as it was advised that I be careful and keep a safe copy elsewhere away from the home. My parents and I are arranging for the business to be valued as well.

I have an appointment next week with a lawyer to get advice and provide the information I have gathered. I have realized that my husband is not the person I thought he was and that person is not coming back. After talking to a few friends, family and reading your advices here and properly taking their advice onboard, I now understand what it means to do my utmost best to protect myself and my kids future. 

If there is any advice to try and save costs re lawyers or the general process etc, that would be greatly appreciated. I live in CA.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"He has since divulged that he has booked a holiday with her for two weeks to Hawaii. This smack in the face has just made me so angry that he is using our family funds to fund his affair. He claims that he is in too deep with the other woman but I feel like he is just saying that to try and keep my hopes up.
"
Make sure you document any such expenditures -- your lawyer can make sure that HE pays for this out of any financial settlement he may get from the Divorce.

REALLY sorry you are going through this, but stick to your plan to separate everything out. Have any/all communications with your H go through your lawyer from now on so that he can't sucker you into anything again.
Also, you should get checked for STD's since you slept with him -- you have NO idea where he's "been".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, if you're not going to separate finances, you need to keep close track of money he spends on the affair so it comes out of his half in the divorce.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You NEED to separate your finances, you should not be helping to fund his affair, AND he could take off with all your money at any point. Protect yourself and open an individual account, asap. Seriously, what an ass! Make sure he didnt give you another STD, too. I am glad to see you are angry, that will serve you well to get through this. DO NOT let him push you around.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If that was unprotected sex then add a visit to the doctor for an STD check to your list of things to do. You don't know who he's having sex with these days.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@kell90s: you said: "I feel like I am losing control and am constantly browsing his social media and looking at the accounts etc..."

No, you are not loosing control; you already lost it, but you're so deep in fear, that you refuse to accept reality, an still you're paralyzed and won't do what needs to be done. 
Since it seems that you won't do a thing, why don't you stop agonizing about your husband, and just surrender and accept it. Keep sharing him, letting him give you more STDs, etc., etc., the minimum outcome will be to teach your children by example how to not respect, love, and have self-worth for themselves.


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## kell90s (Feb 20, 2019)

I thought I would jump on here after a tumultuous 12 months of separation and bring you all up to speed on it all.

I finally filed for divorce a few months after my last message as a part of me was stupidly still trying hard to hold on to what little hope I had at the time that the drama would end. However, my husband continued to lie and cheat and when he would say that he had left the OW and had started working on himself and was committed to me and the kids blah blah blah, I drove around to her house a number of times when he said those things and sure enough his car was out front. On another occasion where there had been radio silence about the OW and things he had done confused me and I thought that the light bulb had finally come on and that he was actually turning around to be decent human being, he went on a supposed work trip interstate, little did he know that my father put a GPS tracking on his car and the day he claimed he was coming back, we sat in the carpark near his car at the airport and sure enough, he finally came out hand in hand with her. I didn't confront them but my father and I just sat in the car and felt absolutely sick as we watched them drive away. That was the icing on the cake for me and that was when I went into full divorce mode.

He decided to get some new equipment for the business without consulting me and put a $100k deposit down. I saw this withdrawal from the business account and questioned him about it. He then blocked my access to the business account (which I found out he could do due to the way the business and accounts are structured) and he started also withdrawing money from our personal accounts. I know I should have started doing this a long time before but I managed to grab $250k before he drained the accounts. At the time he was sitting on $520k cash from the business and our personal accounts combined. 

Since then, the OW has realised that he has tried numerous attempts to get back with me which up until a few months ago, he was still trying despite the ugly fight we are having about money, assets and kids. She left him which has sent him spiralling a bit. He came over really angry after she had left and said he wanted to get back with me and I said no and he walked in and ran at me with his fist closed and stopped just before my face screaming at me. He didn't hit me but he did this two more times in front of the kids so that was terrifying. I honestly thought he was going to hit me he was that enraged. Then he just stopped and looked at me with this disgust and hate look on his face and walked out of the house. Consequently, I am very careful and diligent about locking doors now as I had had the locks replaced months earlier but had left the door open and I have stopped all communication with him directly and it is all to go through the lawyers. Only kid related matters will I converse with him and he knows on record too that he is no longer welcome into the house and we drive somewhere to handover the kids.

We have sold the investment properties and we are still back and forth about the value of the business and he has the kids 4 days out of a fortnight.

He makes ridiculous claims and statements about what the business is worth hence the continued fight. I am hoping that it will all come to an end soon as he out of the blue messaged me recently which I did not reply to saying that he is sick of fighting and wants this to end so everyone can move on.

Also, I have been thinking about putting myself out there and dating again and I am actually really excited about the idea but also really scared as well- ask me 12 months ago when this was all fresh and I would have said I am never dating again. I just don't want to make that jump yet whilst we are still going through this divorce as I don't know how my husband would take that and I don't want anything to jeopardise the progress we have made.

There is so much more crap I could divulge into but I have outlined the worst of it I think.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I’m so glad to read you are finally getting out of this! You’re doing great, stay strong! What a piece of crap he is...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

kell90s said:


> He decided to get some new equipment for the business without consulting me and put a $100k deposit down. I saw this withdrawal from the business account and questioned him about it. He then blocked my access to the business account (which I found out he could do due to the way the business and accounts are structured) and he started also withdrawing money from our personal accounts. I know I should have started doing this a long time before but I managed to grab $250k before he drained the accounts. At the time he was sitting on $520k cash from the business and our personal accounts combined.


There seems to be a LOT of cash involved here, sitting in bank accounts rather than invested in property etc. This is unusual and tends to indicate one or both of two things: First, a cash-flow business model, which can go upside-down on a moment's notice, without warning. Second, a not-so-legit business that's keeping money off the books (hiding assets). There can be many reasons for that, quite a few of them not legal.

With him in control of important accounts, you have zero chance of getting a fair shake. If you haven't already, you need to hire a forensic accountant to figure out what your financial status really is. You don't want an ugly surprise. Plus you want what's fair.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you hired a forensic accountant?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

turnera said:


> I'm sorry you're in this situation. He's cheating, clearly, and has already written you off as old news. Note this this is VERY common for couples who get together as teenagers. The brain doesn't stop growing and evolving until you're about 25, so the person you are at 16 is completely different from the person you are at 28.
> 
> Not sure why you'd want him back, but I'll go ahead and tell you the best way to get him back: Pack all his stuff that he left behind, take it to a storage facility, pay one month's rent, and go see him and hand him the key and the address, tell him that if he doesn't get his stuff out of storage or pay for it, they will sell off his stuff.
> 
> ...


Damn. I kind of like this summary.

It is a good plan. Make him start dealing with the life he's choosing, immediately. 

It will be good for you, too, don't doubt that. And see a lawyer quick like. That's imperative.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

1. Something is desperately wrong with your STBX. 2. If I were your representative, your H would have an RO against him PDQ. 3. Document, document and document. The financial abuse alone will screw him in front of a judge. Jurists are looking for people who act in a fair manner before the courts compel them to act in this way. You need to secure the bank records and journal the day on which your access was amended. These are important facts. 4. He is an idiot, everything he has done will count against him in one way or the other, please tell me that all of this has been brought to the attention of your legal rep. 

I suggest that you also get a financial rep, a CPA is invaluable in this. The number of times that I have reviewed the other side's numbers to find glaring errors, almost purposeful in their commission. (I have found more dirt buried in a mortgage amortization schedule than you can shake a stick at-I use a bullet proof calculator, designed by one of the world's top four accounting/audit firms) You, my dear, have been through a hell of your STBX's making. There really are good men out there. Find one.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

turnera said:


> I'm sorry you're in this situation. He's cheating, clearly, and has already written you off as old news. Note this this is VERY common for couples who get together as teenagers. The brain doesn't stop growing and evolving until you're about 25, so the person you are at 16 is completely different from the person you are at 28.
> 
> Not sure why you'd want him back, but I'll go ahead and tell you the best way to get him back: Pack all his stuff that he left behind, take it to a storage facility, pay one month's rent, and go see him and hand him the key and the address, tell him that if he doesn't get his stuff out of storage or pay for it, they will sell off his stuff.
> 
> ...


Bravo!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Make sure you have a bull dog lawyer on your side. Ensure your parents interests in his firm are protected. It would be better to have his firm valued and agree to sell of their share so you have no dealings with him. He is not trustworthy on any level. Good riddance.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My bet is that he has been trying to keep just enough of a relationship with you so that he maintains control of the business. You need to get a foresnic accountant to go over everything, both buiness and private. You and your lawyer need to find out if he has any secret bank accounts where he has been moving money to. 



kell90s said:


> Also, I have been thinking about putting myself out there and dating again and I am actually really excited about the idea but also really scared as well- ask me 12 months ago when this was all fresh and I would have said I am never dating again. I just don't want to make that jump yet whilst we are still going through this divorce as I don't know how my husband would take that and I don't want anything to jeopardise the progress we have made.


In some places, dating even after divorce has been filed is considered adultery. While most places no longer allow for at fault divorce based on adultery, many allow for the other party to sue for ‘Alienation of affection’. Before you start dating again, you need to talk to your lawyer about this and make sure that you would not face an issue.

Yea, I know he cheated. But it is much easier to prove a current affair than a past one. Also, if you have had any sexual activity with him since while, or after, you knew about his affair it is usually considered forgiveness by the court. This is one reason why really savvy cheaters engage in sex with their spouse even after the affair is discovered. It clears them legally.

Check with your attorney before starting to date.


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## Delilah1971 (Sep 18, 2019)

You are very strong,


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