# Taking a poll on opinions of an EA!!!!!



## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

I am wanting everyones advice or opinions on emotional affairs. Texting, secret emails, dating websites with these secret emails and also deleting text messages from phone.

Is this a form of cheating?


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

And also, if you vote "no", or have anything to say about the poll, please share!!!!!!!


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## Wheels65 (Jul 17, 2011)

In my book it is


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hell yes it is.

I will provide the caveat: It is not technically cheating if the couple has agreed that it is not. 

Couples need to set boundaries. But I am going to be so bold as to say that even in the absence of a specific boundary this would be by default cheating. It is certainly being unfaithful and disrespectful.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

An affair is an affair is an affair. And IMO, an emotional affair is worse than a physical affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> An affair is an affair is an affair. And IMO, an emotional affair is worse than a physical affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, I feel the same way......so then my next question to you Jellybeans is, one side does a PA and then the other side does the EA, are they considered even, or does the EA need to have an PA to be even?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I get what you guys are saying, but for me while an EA is an affair, the PA is the deal breaker by a large extent.

Part of my feelings here is that there is such a broad range for EAs.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

If you are doing it and know your partner will be extremely hurt and angry about it...then it is most likely wrong. (Unless your partner is a psycho who gets mad at you for talking about _anything_ with _anyone_.)


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

So I tried explaining to my H last night about this poll that I started and he still thinks that an EA isnt considered cheating and if thats how I feel about an EA then there was no point in staying together.....ugh....am I fighting a loosing battle?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

strongwomanof1984 said:


> so then my next question to you Jellybeans is, one side does a PA and then the other side does the EA, are they considered even, or does the EA need to have an PA to be even?


That would be up to the individual couple to decide.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

strongwomanof1984 said:


> So I tried explaining to my H last night about this poll that I started and he still thinks that an EA isnt considered cheating and if thats how I feel about an EA then there was no point in staying together.....ugh....am I fighting a loosing battle?


So he threatens to withdraw from you and end the marriage when you voice a difference of opinion? Does he do that with other things, too? 

Emotional "affair" is just what is says -- an AFFAIR.

I don't know your backstory but if he's cheating on you, it's wrong. If he won't end the EA, you have no marriage to speak of.


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

The EA is often the “Disney Land” (wooing) stage before the PA.


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## e.p. (Jun 10, 2011)

"emotional affair" is a blanket statement that can cover a number of circumstances. I voted no. It **could** be cheating but it might not be. In my case, I was going through some serious depression after my brother committed suicide. My wife was not able to help me nor did she try despite symptoms and my asking her to. She is a good woman but this is outside of her normal range of operations. I abused alcohol and prescription painkillers to numb the pain, I physically abused myself and took excessive risks, yet when I asked my wife wouldn't take them away (she would say, "i trust you") and left me home alone with the kids in several situations where she should not have. 

A good female friend of hers stepped up and kept tabs on me. She'd email me a few times a week and eat lunch with me once a week. We talked deeply about life, death, love and we both talked of similar negative issues (mostly sexual) in our relationships. We never were physically affectionate. We did tell each other we cared about each other, and although we did use the "love" word it was understood to be along the lines of a brother and sister. It was very emotional on my part as I was able to rely on her more than my wife, for a time in my life. 

Ultimately she encouraged me to check into a clinic for a few days and she helped my wife understand what I was dealing with. After that we saw each other maybe once or twice and just emailed mostly *****ing about work as we have the same employer. 

If it weren't for her, I might not be alive today, something my wife also acknowledges. A year later my wife asked me to cut off contact with this friend because she "trusts me but not her". I'd wager to say most people would count this as an emotional affair, but was it? It was certainly emotional but no, I don't consider it to be an affair. 

-e.p.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

e.p. said:


> "emotional affair" is a blanket statement that can cover a number of circumstances. I voted no. It **could** be cheating but it might not be.


Someone is either cheating or they aren't. There is no grey area. You either did it or you didn't. Your situation sounds more like a friendship. Nonetheless, it was close enough where it bothered your wife. Good for you for cutting it off.


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## e.p. (Jun 10, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Someone is either cheating or they aren't. There is no grey area. You either did it or you didn't. Your situation sounds more like a friendship. Nonetheless, it was close enough where it bothered your wife. Good for you for cutting it off.


To you it sounds like friendship; to my wife it sounded like an emotional affair as she felt it was necessary to make it go away. Do you see what I mean by grey area?

In a physical affair there is a hard line to cross. Did this body part touch that body part? Yes? Affair. Whereas in an emotional affair I don't see a hard line. 

-e.p.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

No, I don't see the grey area. I firmly believe someone is either cheating or they aren't.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

If one spouse does something that the other perceives to be wrong, it's wrong within the confines of that marriage. If both spouses agree going out with the guys/girls XX times per week it's ok. If one doesn't agree, the other, out of respect for the spouse and the marriage ought to step up to the plate and sort things out. Same goes for EAs (IMHO). If one spouse is not liking the other spouse's relationship with whomever, they need to sort it out. Ultimately, you gotta put your spouse ahead of your 'friends' of any sort.

And then there's the caveat of psycho-jealousy, unresonableness, etc - even this too needs to be sorted out within the marriage.


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

e.p.----your situation sounded like a very difficult one...my husband just lost his father on Easter Sunday ofg this year and I was right by his side watching everythign he did, doing everything in my power to help him. In your case, your friend was basicaly being your friend....

What I am talking about is mainly secret emails with dating websites talking about how bad their life is when its really not....basically trying to get sympathy and the "poor you" card.

In my case we have both done some pretty wrong things, but he just wont seem to stop....It has been several EA over and over again, after he had an PA and then I had a PA, and now he just cant stop the EA and feels that he needs to have another PA to make us "even" in his head....see where Im at?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jayde makes some really good points.



strongwomanof1984 said:


> What I am talking about is mainly secret emails with dating websites talking about how bad their life is when its really not....basically trying to get sympathy and the "poor you" card.
> 
> In my case we have both done some pretty wrong things, but he just wont seem to stop....It has been several EA over and over again, after he had an PA and then I had a PA, and now he just cant stop the EA and feels that he needs to have another PA to make us "even" in his head....see where Im at?


Right, because another affair on top of all the others will make everything go back to normal and solve all the problems within your marriage...


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

[email protected]

Yea my point exactly.....I have told him that I was open to try bringing in another girl and have a threesome, but the EA are tearing me from the inside out.....

Since he found out about my PA, he has had 3 EA and is one of those that doesnt go out of his way to show me support, or praise (i know sounds a little selfish), or doing little things out of his way to let me know that I am on his mind or that he is thinking about me and wanted to show me and assure me how much he loves me and such....he does NOT do ANY house work (inside OR outside), he goes to work, comes home and i serve him his full plate of food, he eats and watchs TV, sometimes goes in the garage and works on his car and then we go to bed....sex life isnt bad, its usually like every other night on average, but he is pouring all his emotions and all the "little" things to everyone else but me.....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How is bringing another women into your bedroom going to solve the main problem, Strong?


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

It would get the being "even" in his head fixed because he would have slept with another woman besides me, even though I am there and he isnt COMPLETELY throwing me to the side like he is now....

Do you get what I mean? We are sleeping in the same bed, still doing diner and family movie nights, last nights movie night was a disaster because he was texting a girl during the whole thing where I had to get up and walk out instead of blowing up in front of our kids, so if we had a threesome then I wouldnt be completely shoved to the side and start resentment towards him and makes things worse....


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> So he threatens to withdraw from you and end the marriage when you voice a difference of opinion? Does he do that with other things, too?
> 
> Emotional "affair" is just what is says -- an AFFAIR.
> 
> I don't know your backstory but if he's cheating on you, it's wrong. If he won't end the EA, you have no marriage to speak of.


He is one of those that has to ALWAYS be right, so when I tell him that the EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA, IMHO, then he makes me feel like I am serisouly a COMPLETE psyco and need mental help. So when I told him that I was trying to get other peoples (male and female) opinions on the subject and that many of them were agreeing that its cheating, that was what his response was to me, cause basically I was telling him that he was wrong....

There is also another little twist....he thinks we need to COMPLETELY seperate, right now we are seperated but still living and sleeping in the same bed, for like a month so he can go do what he needs to do and then me come back....:scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Okay, if he wants to do that then open up the door for him and tell him to leave. 

The fact he's still having an EA and texting her in front of you and your kids says it all. Oh and the fact he wants to separate so he can go f-ck someone else--sorry but there is nothing to work on here.


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

So do you have any more advice for me?

From all the research I have done over the past few days and opinions and thoughts from males and females, I am seriously considering writing him an email telling him that I do not agree to the separating, that it is tearing me from the inside out and that I am open to a one time threesome, but the EA is to stop today, and if he really feels that he needs to have sex with another woman to be "even" then to look for a woman for a threesome.

I really thought I was going to be able to handle him having an EA followed by a PA to get things back "even" in his head with being separated but living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed, but Im just not that strong of a person.....My PA was over 3 years ago, and he has had 3 different times of texting, secret email, and dating websites, with several girls, some were more consistent than others, but the emotional pain he is putting me through IMHO is enough for him to think he has gotten revenge on me.....Am I wrong?


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## marriageinprogress (Jul 7, 2011)

I had an emotional and physical affair. 

My husband said that he is having a harder time with the emotional part than the physical part.

So "YES" an emotional affair is cheating. It's looking outside your marriage for your needs to be met!


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

I actually agree with e.p. that it is a blanket statement. I did vote yes based on the OP's description.

My rule of thumb has always been that if it is something you feel you have to keep secret from your SO, then yes it is.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Strong, again, I don't think offering him a 3some is the answer. You guys already have a lot on your plate.

State how you feel, state what you want (that he not cheat) and tell him you won't live in an open relationship. If he can't meet you halfway, then Goodbye.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

strongwomanof1984 said:


> My PA was over 3 years ago, and he has had 3 different times of texting, secret email, and dating websites, with several girls, some were more consistent than others, but the emotional pain he is putting me through IMHO is enough for him to think he has gotten revenge on me.....Am I wrong?


Strong . . .if his motivation is to 'get even' then he needs to grow up. Either he wants to work things out - and he has a right to be pissed, but it sounds like this might be dangling over your head for a very long time. 

It sounds like he's taken a permanent 'free pass card' in exchange for your PA. From what you said, he'll never let you know when 'it's even' as long he can do what he wants and still have you when he feels like. He has all the cards I'm afraid.


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

jayde said:


> Strong . . .if his motivation is to 'get even' then he needs to grow up. Either he wants to work things out - and he has a right to be pissed, but it sounds like this might be dangling over your head for a very long time.
> 
> It sounds like he's taken a permanent 'free pass card' in exchange for your PA. From what you said, he'll never let you know when 'it's even' as long he can do what he wants and still have you when he feels like. He has all the cards I'm afraid.


Yes he does have a right to be pissed....BUT, he had an PA before I had my PA.....But where I am at now is, I have, in a more bluntly word, been being punished for years now since my PA, and I agree, it seems he has all the cards, and I just got to find the strength in me to take one or a few of them back....We have both fcked up in this marriage, but I can say I have stopped and committed myself to him and only him and our kids and have proven that over the past few years, and its like you said time to get over it or move on.....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He only has the all the cards because you are letting him have all the cards.

Put your foot down and stand your ground. You are letting him guilt you into feeling like it's ok for him to go off and be with someone else, guilt you into offering a 3some, guilt you into continuously being punished for the exact same thing he continues to do to this day.

If you both can't come to a resolution, maybe there's too much water under the bridge...


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

strongwomanof1984 said:


> BUT, he had an PA before I had my PA.....


Ahhh - I missed this part. I thought you were the first offender. So - now that you've had a PA too, I'm thinking his mentality is that it's an open marriage - forget the free pass - who needs it??? JB is right, you gotta put your foot down . . . and be prepared to put the other one right in front of it and keep going.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jayde said:


> you gotta put your foot down . . . and be prepared to put the other one right in front of it and keep going.


Cute


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

strongwomanof1984 said:


> Yep, I feel the same way......so then my next question to you Jellybeans is, one side does a PA and then the other side does the EA, are they considered even, or does the EA need to have an PA to be even?


To me, this is a non-starter, as I don't see it as something with a "score" where the parties can be "even" or not. Either one betrays one's spouse or not. There are no degrees of betrayal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> The EA is often the “Disney Land” (wooing) stage before the PA.


Yes. This is my view. It is a gradient where at some point it becomes inappropriate / risky / ill advided behavior through the further levels of betrayal. Yes it is all bad but there are definitely degrees to an EA. To a PA too but for me I have always seen any PA as a deal breaker. Is a kiss an EA or PA ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's said that most women view the EA as the worst thing ever whereas most men feel that way about a PA.

Interesting...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Someone is either cheating or they aren't. There is no grey area. You either did it or you didn't. Your situation sounds more like a friendship. Nonetheless, it was close enough where it bothered your wife. Good for you for cutting it off.


This is close to my situation. It was inappropriate though. It definitley bothered my wife. It was an EA. By definition I see an EA as cheating because one is meeting needs of another or having needs met by another that should be met by the marriage partners. In my case there had been no kissing. Nothing overtly sexual. Definitely a friend scenario that had gotten too close and was heading in the wrong direction.

I have no doubt that I have been way hard on myself about this. 
Most people would have said that we were just close friends. It is how I viewed it. The bottom line is my wife caught things before they escalated. I don't think it would have progressed to a PA, but I will never know for sure as one is just flat not thinking right when in the fog. It did scare me though, that I could even start down the road of getting that close to anyone else. There was no sexting or pictures or anything overtly sexual. It had crossed a boundary though and crossed boundaries lead to more crossed boundaries if left unchecked. The fact that I went through withdrawal tells me what I need to know about it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

e.p. said:


> To you it sounds like friendship; to my wife it sounded like an emotional affair as she felt it was necessary to make it go away. Do you see what I mean by grey area?
> 
> In a physical affair there is a hard line to cross. Did this body part touch that body part? Yes? Affair. Whereas in an emotional affair I don't see a hard line.
> 
> -e.p.


It is very gray and a continuum. That is why they are so common and why most people do not even see them as EAs.
It is a slow seduction, that feels right all the way. At some point it crosses from risky to ill advised to inappropriate and so on.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I myself had an EA that went PA. My EA was hardcore. 
In the sense that it was deeeep. Like falling down a rabbit hole. 
They don't call it a Fog for nothing.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> No, I don't see the grey area. I firmly believe someone is either cheating or they aren't.


There is a big difference between telling a woman you care for here and having mad passionate sex.

The first may or may not be appropriate depending on the context. There is no way it is the same. If that were the case a woman who dances a little too close to a man and smiles a little too long and deeply is as deeply in as if she having sex with him. Not the same.

I do agree at some point it crosses a boundary and is cheating. But there are levels to this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Emotional "affair" 

Physical "affair" 

Both = "affair"

and yeah I hear you on the "levels"

For instance "kissing" someone isn't the same as "sleeping with them" though some will say both constitute as a physical affair. 

You say potato, I say po-tah-to. LOL


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ARF said:


> I actually agree with e.p. that it is a blanket statement. I did vote yes based on the OP's description.
> 
> My rule of thumb has always been that if it is something you feel you have to keep secret from your SO, then yes it is.


Yes


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah that is a good Rule of Thumb


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## PealedBannana (Jun 9, 2011)

This poll is dumb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Grayson said:


> To me, this is a non-starter, as I don't see it as something with a "score" where the parties can be "even" or not. Either one betrays one's spouse or not. *There are no degrees of betrayal.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously?

A betrayal no matter what is the same as a spouse who has carried on a PA with another. One bad email is the same as a full blown physical affair? WOW.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> It's said that most women view the EA as the worst thing ever whereas most men feel that way about a PA.
> 
> Interesting...


Absolutely. The PA is the consummation for the affair to me. Not saying that an EA is not very bad. But the PA is closing the deal.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> A betrayal no matter what is the same as a spouse who has carried on a PA with another. One bad email is the same as a full blown physical affair? WOW.


In the context of the post I was replying to, yes. The statement I was replying to implied a sort of "score keeping," in which (to draw my own illustration of how I interpreted the post), say, two EA's = one PA" or some other nonsense to allow both parties to be "even." We're not talking about a game where it's possible to win, lose or draw. Some betrayals may be easier for a couple to overcome than others (and, indeed, some may find the emotional intimacy of "one bad email" more difficult to overcome than a PA), but, yes...a betrayal is a betrayal. Is it REALLY less of a betrayal if you stab me in the back instead of shooting me in the face?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Absolutely. The PA is the consummation for the affair to me. Not saying that an EA is not very bad. But the PA is closing the deal.


Not always. My wife had an extended EA that never went PA. She also had a one-time PA that had absolutely no emotional or intimate aspect at all. While EA's can most certainly lead to PA's, they're not always intertwined.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I myself had an EA that went PA. My EA was hardcore.
> In the sense that it was deeeep. Like falling down a rabbit hole.
> They don't call it a Fog for nothing.


Yes. I had to go through withdrawal. That is really what brought the truth to me. Scary.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Grayson said:


> In the context of the post I was replying to, yes. The statement I was replying to implied a sort of "score keeping," in which (to draw my own illustration of how I interpreted the post), say, two EA's = one PA" or some other nonsense to allow both parties to be "even." We're not talking about a game where it's possible to win, lose or draw. Some betrayals may be easier for a couple to overcome than others (and, indeed, some may find the emotional intimacy of "one bad email" more difficult to overcome than a PA), but, yes...a betrayal is a betrayal. Is it REALLY less of a betrayal if you stab me in the back instead of shooting me in the face?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got it


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Not always. My wife had an extended EA that never went PA. She also had a one-time PA that had absolutely no emotional or intimate aspect at all. While EA's can most certainly lead to PA's, they're not always intertwined.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree.


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

Just a quick update....things really exploded tonight. I tried telling him that enough was enough, and that it was time to start being a man and a husband and father and of course that didnt go over very well....so needless to say I am not sleeping upstairs with my kiddos, he left for about 3 hours tonight, dont know where he went or who he was with but I have gotten to the point where I understand it is out of my control....I know now that I am not the only one that things an EA is considered cheating and that I deserve someone who is going to chase after me as much as I chase after them....

Thanks to everyone who voted on the poll and responded with advice and opinions!!!! This site has REALLY helped me open my eyes to the way things should be!!!


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Someone is either cheating or they aren't. There is no grey area. You either did it or you didn't. Your situation sounds more like a friendship. Nonetheless, it was close enough where it bothered your wife. Good for you for cutting it off.





Entropy3000 said:


> This is close to my situation. It was inappropriate though. It definitley bothered my wife. It was an EA. By definition I see an EA as cheating because one is meeting needs of another or having needs met by another that should be met by the marriage partners. In my case there had been no kissing. Nothing overtly sexual. Definitely a friend scenario that had gotten too close and was heading in the wrong direction.
> 
> I have no doubt that I have been way hard on myself about this. Most people would have said that we were just close friends. It is how I viewed it. The bottom line is my wife caught things before they escalated. I don't think it would have progressed to a PA, but I will never know for sure as one is just flat not thinking right when in the fog. It did scare me though, that I could even start down the road of getting that close to anyone else. There was no sexting or pictures or anything overtly sexual. It had crossed a boundary though and crossed boundaries lead to more crossed boundaries if left unchecked. The fact that I went through withdrawal tells me what I need to know about it.


I voted that it was cheating but I do think there is a grey area. Cheating presumes intent. From what Entropy is saying and what I went through there is a period where you don't know you're headed down the path to an EA. However there is a point when you realize your taking steps down this road that’s where the cheating starts for sure. 

My wife also saw that I was behaving differently and would make comments about my "Girlfriend". So it may become apparent to others long before you acknowledge you are in an EA. 

That's why I prefer using unfaithful to cheating. When you start relying upon others for emotional support (whether you see it or not) you are unfaithful to the marriage. In my case, I fed it after I knew about it so it was cheating. But that part for me only lasted a short while fortunately.

So how does one identify ones in an EA? It's often an invisible barrier. It's like going past the point of no return (Schwarzschild radius) to get sucked into a black hole. When going past the Schwarzschild radius there is no measurable change to those going in, things are the same as they were outside. There are two ways to tell if you can leave a black hole. Measuring the local spacetime curvature and trying to get out. In my case I saw (measured the curvature of my relationship to OW) to see I was in an EA. Entropy (in another thread) didn't see it until he tried to get out. He went through withdrawal. But fortunately an EA is not a black hole and one can get out like Entropy did.

So for me the sign that one in or has an EA is that one goes through withdrawal when the OW/OM is not contacted. Most of the time it's cheating because most people recognize they hide it from their spouse. But sometimes it may not be cheating though it is being unfaithful. 

@ Entropy: The entropy of a black hole is proportional to the surface area of the black hole. Is 3000 related to the size of the EA?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

meson said:


> ​
> 
> 
> I voted that it was cheating but I do think there is a grey area. Cheating presumes intent. From what Entropy is saying and what I went through there is a period where you don't know you're headed down the path to an EA. However there is a point when you realize your taking steps down this road that’s where the cheating starts for sure.
> ...


Your post has helped me personally more than any other I have read so far.

I am all about being accountable and owning your actions. Not minimizing things. I tend to be very hard on myself however. I like how you have drawn the difference between being unfaithful and cheating. And that at some point one turns into the other. It has taken me um-teen years to completely forgive myself at the urging of my wife on my EA. She got way past this way back when. I got to the point where I realized until I had back my full self respect I could not be the husband my wife deserves. Our marraige needed me to let it go. Lessons learned though.

Basically I got way too atatched to this person who was a friend and colleague. I was not trying to hide anything, which made things easier for my wife to figure out. There is no doubt I had inappropriate feelings for her at its worst point. She was caught up as well. Beyond the feelings there were emails expressing this. Nothing crazy, but obviously not right either. It was about friendship and so on but love was mentioned. So that was the smoking gun. There was a lot of naiveness on my part. I did not understand the NC part as we were just friends ... yadda yadda. But again, this did not come home to me until I was in full withdrawal. Then I knew it was wrong and that I had not been faithful and was heading down a very bad path. In a lot of ways the whole situation affected me more than my wife. 

So being sucked into the black hole is really what this is about. At some point you cannot turn it around without help. You don't have to go into this with bad intentions. But if you are not vigilant in your boundaries it happens in such a subtle manner the good feelings stifle logic. I am not excusing this. I am much wiser about this now and know what to avoid. But I did not go into this intending to hurt my wife. I never lost my love for her or ever blamed her with not meeting needs or any of that. I flat worked too many hours and developed feelings for another. I was wrong. I was unfaithful. I have no problem with saying it got to cheating. But I think this was the tyoe of thing that partners need to help each other with. Be aware if your partner is falling into an EA. They may be doing things you consider as unfaithful. It just may not be a black and white situation where they are purposely cheating.

I don't know what the 3000 is for ... I need to come up with something clever.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Your post has helped me personally more than any other I have read so far.


Thanks, your posts from this and several other threads have helped me as well. It's been from these exchanges with you and several others that I am figuring this stuff out for myself.




Entropy3000 said:


> I did not understand the NC part as we were just friends ... yadda yadda. But again, this did not come home to me until I was in full withdrawal. Then I knew it was wrong and that I had not been faithful and was heading down a very bad path. In a lot of ways the whole situation affected me more than my wife.


I realized this when I was on vacation. I wasn't doing NC but that's what it effectively was and it was causing me to withdrawal. This was one of my early indications. It's hard to think of myself as an addict but that's what I was.



Entropy3000 said:


> I have no problem with saying it got to cheating. But I think this was the tyoe of thing that partners need to help each other with. Be aware if your partner is falling into an EA. They may be doing things you consider as unfaithful. It just may not be a black and white situation where they are purposely cheating.


:iagree::iagree:

Yes, that is what we need to do. Be vigilant for our partners the same way we would be if we were swiming and get in over our abilities too much to be able to get out. I was quite impressed by the effort your wife went to on your behalf. That's commitment.


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