# Cell Phone privacy in the marriage



## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal) and i am at my wit's end. I have found that she kept notes on her old phone about me several years ago from our arguments & disagreements, which she acknowledges that she did but will never say the word *"Yes" *she did keep notes about me on her cell when i ask her about it. Also when i ask her to see her current cell she refuses and says "*you don't trust me?*" & *"i have work stuff on my phone your not allowed to see*" etc... if she truly was hiding something what would her reactions be when i ask her about looking at her cell phone? and what would she not want me to see on her phone other than the obvious inappropriate texts with the opposite sex? anyone have any advice on how to convince her to let me see it? i have exhausted every angle in talking to her about but am at my wit's end. To note: no things have not been the greatest over the past few months, but not the worst & we can't seem to get out of the rut.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ok so usually seeing each other cell phones is to be reassured about affairs. So it you want to look at her cellphone to find notes on you or snoop about her thoughts, I think that is inappropriate, that's like reading her diary.

What hasn't been the greatest? Do you have a reason to suspect infidelity? like past infidelity? Being a work phone you probably don't have access to records to see if there are some numbers over and over or for unreasonable amounts of time.

Ok so I've read some of your other posts now. You have bigger problems than a cellphone. First what job does she hold that would prevent you from seeing work stuff? Second she has no respect for you. What do you do to contribute to feelings of resentment? What does she do? How much time do you spend with her doing stuff? She seems kinda checked out.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Saints1234 said:


> So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal) and i am at my wit's end. I have found that she kept notes on her old phone about me several years ago from our arguments & disagreements, which she acknowledges that she did but will never say the word *"Yes" *she did keep notes about me on her cell when i ask her about it. Also when i ask her to see her current cell she refuses and says "*you don't trust me?*" & *"i have work stuff on my phone your not allowed to see*" etc... if she truly was hiding something what would her reactions be when i ask her about looking at her cell phone? and what would she not want me to see on her phone other than the obvious inappropriate texts with the opposite sex? anyone have any advice on how to convince her to let me see it? i have exhausted every angle in talking to her about but am at my wit's end. To note: no things have not been the greatest over the past few months, but not the worst & we can't seem to get out of the rut.


There is no privacy in a marriage, if you cannot see it you should not be married, bottom line...


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so usually seeing each other cell phones is to be reassured about affairs. So it you want to look at her cellphone to find notes on you or snoop about her thoughts, I think that is inappropriate, that's like reading her diary.
> 
> What hasn't been the greatest? Do you have a reason to suspect infidelity? like past infidelity? Being a work phone you probably don't have access to records to see if there are some numbers over and over or for unreasonable amounts of time.
> 
> Ok so I've read some of your other posts now. You have bigger problems than a cellphone. First what job does she hold that would prevent you from seeing work stuff? Second she has no respect for you. What do you do to contribute to feelings of resentment? What does she do? How much time do you spend with her doing stuff? She seems kinda checked out.


She works in lending, her respect is there but doesn't respect my needs, i probably contribute to her resenting me when i am truthful with her about our Shared responsibilities (house chores, cooking, cleaning, etc..) & that i do a majority of them a majority of the time (90-95%), and when i am insecure about her phone, and most importantly the fact people tell us that our child is performing a whole lot better in school now that i am not working away & helping with homework etc...she has said she could do better in meeting my needs, and as far as us spending time together away or on a trip, Never, 15 plus years marriage and she has never wanted to take a trip, (i think because she feels she would be a bad mother by getting someone to babysit, and i think her mom (my MIL) frowns upon that type of thing. Yes it seems like she checks out but also doesn't put forth the effort to check in either.


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so usually seeing each other cell phones is to be reassured about affairs. So it you want to look at her cellphone to find notes on you or snoop about her thoughts, I think that is inappropriate, that's like reading her diary.
> 
> What hasn't been the greatest? Do you have a reason to suspect infidelity? like past infidelity? Being a work phone you probably don't have access to records to see if there are some numbers over and over or for unreasonable amounts of time.
> 
> Ok so I've read some of your other posts now. You have bigger problems than a cellphone. First what job does she hold that would prevent you from seeing work stuff? Second she has no respect for you. What do you do to contribute to feelings of resentment? What does she do? How much time do you spend with her doing stuff? She seems kinda checked out.


She works in lending, her respect is there but doesn't respect my needs, i probably contribute to her resenting me when i am truthful with her about our Shared responsibilities (house chores, cooking, cleaning, etc..) & that i do a majority of them a majority of the time (90-95%), and when i am insecure about her phone, and most importantly the fact people tell us that our child is performing a whole lot better in school now that i am not working away & helping with homework etc...she has said she could do better in meeting my needs, and as far as us spending time together away or on a trip, Never, 15 plus years marriage and she has never wanted to take a trip, (i think because she feels she would be a bad mother by getting someone to babysit, and i think her mom (my MIL) frowns upon that type of thing. Yes it seems like she checks out but also doesn't put forth the effort to check in either.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well my point is you can't change the marriage by yourself. Also you basically only listed things she does wrong as if you don't do anything that would contribute to resentment in the marriage. If you truly are perfect and she is just horrible, divorce her right this minute. 

Or instead you could try building a better marriage. You could talk with her from a place of wanting a better marriage (for both of you not just me me me). If she is unwilling to participate then divorce her.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> There is no privacy in a marriage, ...


I'd say there is no secrecy in a marriage, as for privacy there can be some.

Meaning, when you go to the toilet, when you talk to friends/family/colleagues about their issues that your SO doesn't necessarily have to know; your alone time with your own self....etc.

As for secrecy, this is totally smth that your SO is trying to do behind your back, smth hurtful.

In the OP's case, his wife seems to have some sort of secrecy.
If she's got nothing to hide, then what does she worry so much about?????


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

lovelygirl said:


> I'd say there is no secrecy in a marriage, as for privacy there can be some.
> 
> Meaning, when you go to the toilet, when you talk to friends/family/colleagues about their issues that your SO doesn't necessarily have to know; your alone time with your own self....etc.
> 
> ...


Of course I do allow for toilet privacy... As you know... 

However, I don't believe in any secrets and except presents or something like that. 

Cell phone secrecy, and other types, no just no. It allows for affairs among other issues. 

If you want that type of privacy, stay single. I don't now allow it in my relationships. In fact I had to point out to F the other day, that she acted like she did not want me to look at her phone the other day. 

I pointed it out and said if the is the case then you need to GTFO right this minute, lets pack your bag, and I will pack the rest of your stuff tomorrow. 

The answer is NO to this crap...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> Of course I do allow for toilet privacy... As you know...
> 
> However, I don't believe in any secrets and except presents or something like that.
> 
> ...


Is there something else going on with this for you that she understands, because a reaction like that would scare the crap out of me emotionally, especially if I hesitated for another reason than hiding something...!!


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> I pointed it out and said if the is the case then you need to GTFO right this minute, lets pack your bag, and I will pack the rest of your stuff tomorrow.


What did you get? Packed bags or an open phone? (I know you meant what you said, no idea how she reacted. Hoping you’re good-ish.)


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Privacy in marriage is closing the door when you use the bathroom. 

Secrecy is never ok. It's one thing to keep a friends confidence about themselves, but another altogether to keep secrets about yourself or your life from your spouse.

I've not read your other threads, so can't comment on that.

My husband has a passcode on his phone, but I know what it is and do use his phone sometimes. Same with his computer, and he can access mine anytime. I don't have a passcode on my phone, but if I did my husband would know what it was.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Is there something else going on with this for you that she understands, because a reaction like that would scare the crap out of me emotionally, especially if I hesitated for another reason than hiding something...!!


We have talked about this very issue, we have both been victims of infidelity. We have had talks about boundaries, what is ok and not ok. 

My phone is open, in fact she went thorough every woman the was a text conversation that I had not deleted, early in our relationship... I explained every thing she wanted to know, of course she could see they were all old, so no problems there. 

There were a lot to go through at the time.

And yes, I know is sounds extreme and it was. But with this stuff I do not play about it. If you are with me, then you are with me. We are either serious and planning on getting married or we are not. 

She recognized after the fact that she was protecting her phone for some unknown reason, and she had no reason to do that. 

But no, there is no reason to be worried about anything, if there was, she would be gone.


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

It’s confusing because I feel like she is hiding something (maybe not an affair) more likely inappropriate (something she wouldn’t say or do in front of me) texts between her and her coworkers or she doesn’t want me to see her other “self”. And yes I have probably contributed myself by being insecure, but I can tell you that I have always gave it my best. Don’t misunderstand I am just as accountable as she is but I admit it and she rarely does. I truly feel like she is a separate person when she’s away from our home/family and because of our arguments and rough patches that’s the place where she likes to be. I know she’s not involved with a 3rd party directly, but she is hiding something because of her not Letting me into her separate life. I love her and want it to work but I damn sure won’t be taken for granted either. And yes I have told her that I am the one person (only person) who she can confide into and keep My mouth shut, but it doesn’t resonate with her. I told
Her last night I’d give away/replace every time we were intimate for just one unsolicited hug, kiss, or a complement,but he’ll no I can’t see her cell phone cause it’s a work cell and that I make her feel like I don’t trust her. I’ll


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Saints1234 said:


> I told Her last night I’d give away/replace every time we were intimate for just one unsolicited hug, kiss, or a complement,but he’ll no I can’t see her cell phone cause it’s a work cell and that I make her feel like I don’t trust her. I’ll


What? Really, what? Is there more than the phone going on, maybe. (Sorry haven’t followed the thread.)


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Cell phone secrecy, and other types, no just no. It allows for affairs among other issues.
> If you want that type of privacy, stay single. I don't now allow it in my relationships.





BluesPower said:


> And yes, I know is sounds extreme and it was. But with this stuff I do not play about it. If you are with me, then you are with me. We are either serious and planning on getting married or we are not..


Agreed! 👍👍👍



Saints1234 said:


> told
> Her last night I’d give away/replace every time we were intimate for just one unsolicited hug, kiss, or a complement,but he’ll no I can’t see her cell phone cause* it’s a work cell and that I make her feel like I don’t trust her.*


Bull****!!!!!!!

Unless she works in CIA or FBA, then she has NO reason to keep that phone away from you, even if it's work related.

I don't understand this mentality "it's about work and it's confidential".
Who cares to gossip about things that are work-related???? Even if someone reads some information- (in this case, you as her H). Why does it bother her???? As if you'd leak that info on the news. 🙄

Therefore, her reaction is extreme and suspicious. So, she must be hiding something *personal* from you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Saints1234 said:


> So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal) and i am at my wit's end. I have found that she kept notes on her old phone about me several years ago from our arguments & disagreements, which she acknowledges that she did but will never say the word *"Yes" *she did keep notes about me on her cell when i ask her about it. Also when i ask her to see her current cell she refuses and says "*you don't trust me?*" & *"i have work stuff on my phone your not allowed to see*" etc... if she truly was hiding something what would her reactions be when i ask her about looking at her cell phone? and what would she not want me to see on her phone other than the obvious inappropriate texts with the opposite sex? anyone have any advice on how to convince her to let me see it? i have exhausted every angle in talking to her about but am at my wit's end. To note: no things have not been the greatest over the past few months, but not the worst & we can't seem to get out of the rut.



Why exactly do you need to see her phone? if she has written notes with regard to her own feelings and thoughts on you or the marriage, that is none of your business. i do this because it is good to formulate thoughts and think through things and remember exactly what has gone before as sometimes our minds are not the best at recalling certain events.
My husband is like this sometimes, he tells me very little about meetings out with his friends but is very intrusive if I go out with my friends and wants a blow by blow account. i used to accommodate, now I don't cause it is none of his business. Yes marriage is about sharing but not to that extent. it is healthier if you retain some individuality. 

If you are suspicious about her doing something inappropriate, your first choice should be to shut up and observe, there are many ways to skin a cat.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> *I'd say there is no secrecy in a marriage, as for privacy there can be some.*
> 
> Meaning, when you go to the toilet, when you talk to friends/family/colleagues about their issues that your SO doesn't necessarily have to know; your alone time with your own self....etc.
> 
> ...


I think THIS is a brilliant point and distinction to make!!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Saints1234 said:


> So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal) and i am at my wit's end. I have found that she kept notes on her old phone about me several years ago from our arguments & disagreements, which she acknowledges that she did but will never say the word *"Yes" *she did keep notes about me on her cell when i ask her about it. Also when i ask her to see her current cell she refuses and says "*you don't trust me?*" & *"i have work stuff on my phone your not allowed to see*" etc... if she truly was hiding something what would her reactions be when i ask her about looking at her cell phone? and what would she not want me to see on her phone other than the obvious inappropriate texts with the opposite sex? anyone have any advice on how to convince her to let me see it? i have exhausted every angle in talking to her about but am at my wit's end. To note: no things have not been the greatest over the past few months, but not the worst & we can't seem to get out of the rut.


I am probably going to be the complete opposite of most here (what else is new?) and say yes there is privacy that occurs even within marriage. First off, if that is her companies phone with sensitive information, then you looking at it is a straight up no go. While you may not intend to look at any information that you are not authorized to or to use it in any inappropriate manner, the breech of trust between her and her employee would be broken, not to mention a possible violation of law. Think of it this way. would you want your private information shared, even accidentally, with a stranger just because their spouse had it for legitimate uses?

Everyone has a right to privacy, even from their spouses. If you don't have a right to have sex or kisses or any other physical contact, then you have no right to what they want to keep private. That doesn't mean that you can't agree upon what is never to remain hidden, but you still have no _right _to that. So figure that stuff out before hand and don't get married if you can't handle the idea of what they want to keep private.

I can tell you this. I would never seek to look at any of my spouses' cells or other personal devices just to see if they have anything on me, or for potential affairs. That would mean that the trust is already gone. If you don't have that kind of trust, you might as well leave now. Nor would I ever allow them to see my phone just because. I have never had issue when presented with a legitimate reason. I trust that they will not go into things other than what they asked to see, at least intentionally. So a lack of reason would indicate a trust issue. And for the record, we all have these ways of making it known that we want something for a surprise later that we can't mention now, so that is still a legitimate reason.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lovelygirl said:


> Agreed! 👍👍👍
> 
> 
> Bullsh*t!!!!!!!
> ...


Plenty of businesses don't want their insider stuff being shared w/ spouses. Then there is the issue of client privacy, think doctors, lawyers, counselling people or even just financial outfits. IDK how much of this winds up on the company phone but if it does there is suddenly a good reason for spouse not to browse it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Plenty of businesses don't want their insider stuff being shared w/ spouses. Then there is the issue of client privacy, think doctors, lawyers, counselling people or even just financial outfits. IDK how much of this winds up on the company phone but if it does there is suddenly a good reason for spouse not to browse it.


This is rubbish... If you cannot trust your spouse to not divulge something then you should not be married to them.

Having secrecy on a computer or cell is a recipe for disaster. 

Anyone using this reason, short of the CIA or FBI, but then again look at Lisa and Peter. 

Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing. 

OP's wife is up to something, if he has the balls he will find out what...


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Plant a VAR in her car or home office.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

As I recall your concerns were more than just texts:

*.... I’ve noticed a few changes over the past 6 months or so with my wife, she is 42 very attractive and works in lending. She has begun telling me that she has become confident in her looks and has noticed other guys checking her out and lt makes her confident , in the past she never drank very much, but now drinks occasionally at home and at times wants to go hang out with her married coworkers to have drinks, either at a local bar or there home, she won’t let me see her “work” cell phone because of work related privacy issues, and has become lackluster in the intimacy side. *


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

It sounds like you're a stay at home dad - and she's developing a professional and personal life without you.

Is she loosing respect for you?
Is she still going out drinking or to hang out without you?
Is she still distant?

Does she use the same texting APP for personal use? Many businesses (especially where privacy is a valid concern or where their work ties with others) use a special APP (vs what comes with the phone).

I recall she's in banking. What is her job title? Is she a loan officer?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I think that I remember your initial thread.
I also remember that she was being super sketchy.
The first thing you need to do is change the dynamic.
You need to get on the offensive. You need to get pissed with a purpose. You need to take a stand. You need to be prepared to walk that stand.
Option 1:
Sit her butt down. Inform her that if she still wants a marriage, she will give up the phone instantaneously.
Tell her that if she leaves the room with that phone, you will file for divorce.
My guess is that there is plenty in that phone she does not want you to see. If there wasn't, she would have given it up the first time.
Spring this on her. Do not give her time to "Sanitize" the phone.
Have a laptop with Mr. Fone (or its equivalent) downloaded on it. Use it to scan the phone in her presence.
Option 2:
Obtain a phone exactly like hers (Down to the case) that is non functional.
Swap it with hers. Go out for awhile. Inspect/scan the phone off site (or get someone to go through it.)
Document the hell out of everything you find, Get a new (unknown to her) e-mail address. Send the screen shots there.
When you get home, she may be BMW'ing that her phone died. Not your fault, right?
When you get a chance, swap back.
Use the info that you have gained to determine your next move.
Whatever happens, start treating her like she treats you. Bet she won't like it.
Focus on you, and a life and career of your own. She obviously has too much time on her hands. Be a buzz kill. Make her adjust her life to accommodate yours.
Whatever you find in that phone will blow the whole thing sky high. You can make book on that.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> This is rubbish... If you cannot trust your spouse to not divulge something then you should not be married to them.


Non sequitir, point is that many companies don't want employee spouses seeing proprietary or confidential client information.


> Having secrecy on a computer or cell is a recipe for disaster.


Not for some of us.


> Anyone using this reason, *short of the* CIA or *FBI*, but then again *look at* *Lisa and Peter.*


Do you see the irony in the example you chose?


> Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing.


Mike Royko was a legendary newspaper columnist and every time someone under investigation didn't cooperate, people would call the newspaper and say basically that. He would thank them for participating, and ask their name and address which was SOP. Most would supply it, he would then ask a series of questions less intrusive than the person being investigated was being asked, and every one of them would either hang up or angrily refuse to answer. Takeaway, most people don't value anyone else's privacy, but everyone values their own.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> That would mean that the trust is already gone. If you don't have that kind of trust, you might as well leave now.


What if your SO GIVES YOU REASONS TO NOT trust them?

Maybe they should leave first.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> being shared w/ spouses. Then there is the issue of client privacy, think doctors, lawyers, counselling people or even just financial outfits. IDK how much of this winds up on the company phone but if it does there is suddenly a good reason for spouse not to browse


Oh please ....ridiculous!

As I said who CARES about sharing your confidential info at work????
Unless you are rivals and fighting for the same position or sharing the same market, then any work-relatdd info is so boring...(especially between spouses) that nobody cares to know what's going on.

OP doesn't want to poke his nose in such stuff. He's simply afraid his wife is having an inappropriate, personal, non-work conversation with someome else.

That's it!


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Saints1234 said:


> So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal) and i am at my wit's end. I have found that she kept notes on her old phone about me several years ago from our arguments & disagreements, which she acknowledges that she did but will never say the word *"Yes" *she did keep notes about me on her cell when i ask her about it. Also when i ask her to see her current cell she refuses and says "*you don't trust me?*" & *"i have work stuff on my phone your not allowed to see*" etc... if she truly was hiding something what would her reactions be when i ask her about looking at her cell phone? and what would she not want me to see on her phone other than the obvious inappropriate texts with the opposite sex? anyone have any advice on how to convince her to let me see it? i have exhausted every angle in talking to her about but am at my wit's end. To note: no things have not been the greatest over the past few months, but not the worst & we can't seem to get out of the rut.


Well, you have accepted it. 
It is kind of hard to undo it now but I do not believe in "secret" phones when married. These little private, hand held computers didn't exist throughout all of history until about the last 20 years and now many expect to keep these super vast and secret worlds from their spouses and the spouse is a horrible person if they "invade their privacy" by ever looking at the device. I don't buy that and it is crap to me. 

All you can do is ask and she can keep saying no. 

If it is really an issue you've got to tell her and if it is a huge issue you've got to tell her this isn't the life you want and her hiding it "no matter what" is proof to you that she is being untrustworthy and lying about something and you can leave her. 
"Work" stuff. That is a crock. You aren't reading company info and contracts you are checking out her personal interaction and who she is contacting and stuff. 

Anyway. What can you do?
If it is that big of an issue tell her to show you the phone or quit that damn job of hers. If she wont' then leave her and go find you a sweet lady who lives by the "spouses do not lock their phones and each can see the others phone any time they want" mantra. 

I must admit, it sounds shady and I probably wouldn't trust it. I do not think I could be with someone I didn't trust because it begins to emotionally torment you and it is a wedge between you two. 
Leave her if it is that serious.

First let her know how serious it is. A marriage should trump any job. If her job is causing a problem in the marriage she should find another one.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Tdbo said:


> Inform her that if she still wants a marriage, she will give up the phone instantaneously.
> 
> Inspect/scan the phone off site (or get someone to go through it.)


You do understand that if this is a work phone with actual privacy protected information on it, doing these things is a literal violation of the law, yes?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> What if your SO GIVES YOU REASONS TO NOT trust them?
> 
> Maybe they should leave first.


Why would someone be so stupid as to stay with someone whom they no longer trust? Is there a point to be proved? "I don't trust you, but I stayed anyway for you to betray me later." Yeah that's smart thinking.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> Oh please ....ridiculous!
> 
> As I said who CARES about sharing your confidential info at work????
> Unless you are rivals and fighting for the same position or sharing the same market, then any work-relatdd info is so boring...(especially between spouses) that nobody cares to know what's going on.
> ...


There are things that cannot be legally shared, not even with a spouse.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She works in lending so would have a good deal of protected client data on her phone?

What kind of a lending company worker would allow their spouse to browse through highly confidential company and client data and records? One who is either unemployed or possibly even in jail.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> You do understand that if this is a work phone with actual privacy protected information on it, doing these things is a literal violation of the law, yes?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Well, if it is that big of a marital issue then maybe she needs a new job.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> There are things that cannot be legally shared, not even with a spouse.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


lol

lol

You make it sound like the husband is going to start reading business contracts and copying account numbers. 
If this job is that important and she is on her phone as much as she is (he had another post about this detailing how she's acting fishy and on the phone all the time at home) and it is that private she should get another job because marriage trumps career. 
I agree though, if he doesn't trust her just leave her and get another lady.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> You do understand that if this is a work phone with actual privacy protected information on it, doing these things is a literal violation of the law, yes?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


It's her own personal phone, according to the OP.
That was all discussed in his initial thread.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hinterdir said:


> Well, if it is that big of a marital issue then maybe she needs a new job.


Or he can just walk, since he already doesn't trust her.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> Oh please ....ridiculous!
> 
> As I said who CARES about sharing your confidential info at work????
> Unless you are rivals and fighting for the same position or sharing the same market, then any work-relatdd info is so boring...(especially between spouses) that nobody cares to know what's going on.
> ...


In fact divulging financial information to an outside person (even a spouse) is almost certainly illegal.

@Saints1234 has problems in his marriage, that's true. However getting bogged down in a "Well, I think that the spouse should be able to see confidential data on their spouse's phone" is distracting from the bigger issue of his marriage. Which needs help.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> She works in lending so would have a good deal of protected client data on her phone?
> 
> What kind of a lending company worker would allow their spouse to browse through highly confidential company and client data and records? One who is either unemployed or possibly even in jail.


If it truly was a business device, I don't know many businesses that would be allowing her to use it in the manner that OP described she was using it in his initial thread.
He is being gaslit so much, he best not fart in the same room.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hinterdir said:


> lol
> 
> lol
> 
> ...


He may not intend to, but in going through the phone he potentially can. And copying that information, if it is on there, looked at or not, is indeed a legal violation. 

But here is the question. How many people would have told him to give up the phone or change careers if the roles were reversed? Damn few, I'd bet.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lovelygirl said:


> Oh please ....ridiculous!
> 
> As I said who CARES about sharing your confidential info at work????


In many cases, your employer will insist that you safeguard the info from others at pain of firing, being sued, and/or criminal charges.


> Unless you are rivals and fighting for the same position or sharing the same market, then any work-relatdd info is so boring...(especially between spouses) that nobody cares to know what's going on.


Depending what the work is, it can get quite juicy.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Saints1234 said:


> So the wife still refuses to let me see her cell phone, (work cell but also personal)





Tdbo said:


> It's her own personal phone, according to the OP.


I was guessing the OP meant it was issued by work but also used for personal things.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Tdbo said:


> It's her own personal phone, according to the OP.
> That was all discussed in his initial thread.


If it contained confidential work information, it doesn't matter who owns it. He's not allowed to see that info. The bad part about it is, she could be outright lying, bit does he really want to deal with those legal consequences?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> I was guessing the OP meant it was issued by work but also used for personal things.


From what I remember in the original thread, it was used for both.
I wish the new platform was as easy as the old one to look things up. It stuck in my head that it was a personal phone that she used for work.
However, why would a business assign a device with private information on it, and allow an employee to use it for personal usage.
It kind of defeats the purpose of issuing a secure device.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Tdbo said:


> From what I remember in the original thread, it was used for both.


If I read the other thread, I don't remember it.


> I wish the new platform was as easy as the old one to look things up. It stuck in my head that it was a personal phone that she used for work.
> However, why would a business assign a device with private information on it, and allow an employee to use it for personal usage.
> It kind of defeats the purpose of issuing a secure device.


I think some businesses will give you a phone, computer, etc. and expect you to protect the info on it, while not caring if you do personal stuff on it as well. Calling your mother with it doesn't compromise the info on it, any more than calling another business for work does. But letting your spouse look through it does compromise any of their info on it.

So it probably doesn't matter if work issued her the phone or if she elected to store info on her own phone they want protected.


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

The cel phone is issued by her employer, but they are allowed to use it as personal , my old
Job (that I did leave to be home more) (that I made twice the salary as I do now) that old job that I left because I didn’t want to grow apart, that old job I left to be more involved with the kids, Allowed us the same personal use with our company cell. company policy or not, the lack of transparency has really confused me and has made me frustrated about it. I feel like she is hiding conversations about me (our arguments & disagreements) with her female coworkers & mom that she knows I wouldn’t like, I also feel like there may be texts from her companies (male) clients that I would probably not like either, she has kept notes on me in the past (several years ago) kinda like she was documenting out arguments. I am just trying to figure out how to handle the situation for the better, and to figure out how to persuade her to be transparent with it.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

Saints1234 said:


> *I feel like she is hiding conversations about me (our arguments & disagreements) with her female coworkers & mom that she knows I wouldn’t like.
> 
> I also feel like there may be texts from her companies (male) clients that I would probably not like either.
> *




If you found the evidence of this, what would you do?


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> If you found the evidence of this, what would you do?


Go silent and observe & try not to loose my head


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## Saints1234 (Apr 4, 2020)

Saints1234 said:


> Go silent and observe & try not to loose my head


And try to do the complete opposite of what I feel after discovering such evidence


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Saints1234 said:


> Go silent and observe & try not to loose my head


Why would you stay in the relationship if you found such out?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

She is hiding something.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but people's personal information should be extra secured and need an extra password to access. If its in email, she should be logging out when she is done working. Everything should be open for you to view: texts, calls, ect. 

Mister has a pin to get into his phone, and I know it. I don't have a password on mine a d he is free to look. We've had issues with him being insecure in the past, and I've offered my phone to him to look through, then kindly offered to pull records from our cell company to show texts/calls. He piped down and hasn't looked since, although he is free to. I've told him to scroll through my pictures and send himself any he wants! (I take a bunch)


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> If I read the other thread, I don't remember it.
> I think some businesses will give you a phone, computer, etc. and expect you to protect the info on it, while not caring if you do personal stuff on it as well. Calling your mother with it doesn't compromise the info on it, any more than calling another business for work does. But letting your spouse look through it does compromise any of their info on it.
> 
> So it probably doesn't matter if work issued her the phone or if she elected to store info on her own phone they want protected.


I'm somewhat familiar with the issue, working in a field where I dealt with sensitive information all the time.
At the time that I retired, I had an HP laptop, a Macbook, an IPad, and a cellphone assigned to me for business use.
I had personal use in that no one really cared if I called my wife on the cell, or used one of the computers to look up a news site, etc, but they certainly did care if I was on any site that might contain a virus or would compromise network security, or if I was on a social media, or similar site.
There were times where I needed to access a social media site for a legitimate business purpose, and I had to go through the IT department to access it.
I would also also add that with my field, and I would think this would carry over to any lending institution, all customer or sensitive information had to be accessed through a web portal where I had to sign in and out. If she was that interested in being transparent, all she would have to do is sign off the operating platform of the company. That closes access to business info, unless she gives up her user name and password.
There is a work around for most anything if one is above board. She could show him all the items he is concerned about on that phone if she really wanted to without sacrificing any kind of business confidentiality, if she really wanted to. I'll still bet there is something on that phone that would blow things sky high. She is using the business angle as cover.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Saints1234 said:


> I feel like she is hiding conversations about me (our arguments & disagreements) with her female coworkers & mom that she knows I wouldn’t like, I also feel like there may be texts from her companies (male) clients that I would probably not like either, *she has kept notes on me in the past (several years ago) kinda like she was documenting out arguments*.


That right there is really, REALLY odd. Why would she do that? And discussing marital issues with parents is a BIG no no.

She is hiding something, that's for sure. What exactly it is, who knows, and in that lies the issue.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Saints1234 said:


> The cel phone is issued by her employer, but they are allowed to use it as personal , my old
> Job (that I did leave to be home more) (that I made twice the salary as I do now) that old job that I left because I didn’t want to grow apart, that old job I left to be more involved with the kids, Allowed us the same personal use with our company cell. company policy or not, the lack of transparency has really confused me and has made me frustrated about it. I feel like she is hiding conversations about me (our arguments & disagreements) with her female coworkers & mom that she knows I wouldn’t like, I also feel like there may be texts from her companies (male) clients that I would probably not like either, she has kept notes on me in the past (several years ago) kinda like she was documenting out arguments. I am just trying to figure out how to handle the situation for the better, and to figure out how to persuade her to be transparent with it.


I had it backward, trying to remember from your old thread.
I don't think you are going to persuade her. You will probably have to force the issue or get devious.
If it all was beautiful and innocent, she would be quick to show you and prove you wrong.
She could show you her phone without sacrificing business confidentiality, if she really wanted to.
However, she does not feel compelled to do so because it serves her agenda, and there are no consequences for her lack of transparency.
Short of what I have already suggested, the only other options I can think of are treating her the way she treats you (I'll bet she would have a serious problem with that), get a new job similar to your old one and reduce her free time, or hire a PI to look into her activities.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I searched and found your initial thread:









New to here and have a question


Wife and I have been married for 15 years and has been a typical marriage and has been successful. However I’ve noticed a few changes over the past 6 months or so with my wife, she is 42 very attractive and works in lending. She has begun telling me that she has become confident in her looks and...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





It really is stunning. Probably one of the worst I've read here.
Has her behavior towards you improved? Has she gotten more respectful?
Regardless, you need to get in that phone.
She is in dire need of consequences. Visit an attorney before you have the show down at the kitchen table.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> employer will insist that you safeguard the info from others at pain of firing, being sued, and/or criminal charges


In every company you sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) and evey work-info (for all of us) is supposed to remain undisclosed to 3rd parties (and it stays that way) because, tbh, nobody outside cares to hear about our work, neither do the spouses(unless there is a huge issue affecting the family). 

Seems like some of you here are want to justify any unfaithfulness/inapropriate behavior under the umbrella of work-secrecy.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> The bad part about it is, she could be outright lying, bit does he really want to deal with those legal consequences?


Unless she sues him, then there will be no legal consequences for him - even if he sees that info. 
Also, it's not in her favor to cause legal consequences to OP because she'd also be accused and sued by her company for breach of NDA. 

So it won't harm anybody to have OP have a look at the secret conversations his wife is having in work-email because OP is interested in catching any infidelity, not any secret info about her job.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

at one time some people would post it was illegal to use a VAR
to secretly record someone without their consent in many states.
crying you could go to jail, get sued, trying to get evidence that
their WS was cheating.

never saw a news headline BS in jail or sued for illegal use catching
their WS cheating. because the last thing a WS or their AP wants is
their affair becoming public news.

a BS is not going to want to know business info, and will use any that
he stumbles on. the employer will never know the BH examined the
cell, PC, or other devices. so the WS has nothing to fear letting their
spouse have access to those devices.

only those that have something to hide, hide their devices.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

If I thought for a second my lender had any of my information on a cell, I would be looking for a new lender.....


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm quoting these posts from your other thread.
It's obvious you're not an excitement to her anymore!



Livvie said:


> She's* just not that interested in you anymore.* You can't make her manufacture passion and interest in you. You can decide if this is the kind of relationship you want to stay in....or not.





Tdbo said:


> At a very minimum, she *doesn't respect you much.*
> After reading Post #4, she seems to enjoy rubbing your face in it.
> I don't know why you're not pissed. You should be.
> She wants* to go hang out with another COUPLE on VALENTINES DAY a*nd you aren't invited?
> ...



OP, you are being so BETA and so slow .... and not assertive that she feels she can treat how however she likes to!
She's got _alpha_ males at work and she's loving the fantasies and flirtations that she gets there.

Lemme tell you this, if her work email were so confidential and so strict and so professional....., THEN WHY IS SHE EXCHANGING *PERSONAL *EMAILS with friends/family/ other male coworkers ?????
Why does the IT at her company allow this???? If they were so strict, they wouldn't!!!! 
This means, her work-email and the policy at her company is NOT THAT secretive, at least not as secretive as she claims!!
She only presents it to you this way so that_ YOU_ can _stay away _from her disrespectful emails that she exchanges with others - for personal benefits.

OP, I can't believe you are so naive.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tdbo said:


> From what I remember in the original thread, it was used for both.
> I wish the new platform was as easy as the old one to look things up. It stuck in my head that it was a personal phone that she used for work.
> However, why would a business assign a device with private information on it, and allow an employee to use it for personal usage.
> It kind of defeats the purpose of issuing a secure device.


My company does. And I am certain that a lot of other companies do this, too.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> If I thought for a second my lender had any of my information on a cell, I would be looking for a new lender.....


They probably don't. But the phone would link to Google Docs, the company servers, etc.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Sbrown said:


> If I thought for a second my lender had any of my information on a cell, I would be looking for a new lender.....


Some legislators are bucking for legislation to weaken the security of phones b/c it is too difficult for LE to get into them.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> Seems like some of you here are want to justify any unfaithfulness/inapropriate behavior under the umbrella of work-secrecy.


Then you misunderstand some of us. Whether or not the wife is doing something inappropriate with regards to the marriage, that does not make the work phone a legitimate target for determining that. Especially if it is a device that contains non discloseable information.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

oldtruck said:


> at one time some people would post it was illegal to use a VAR
> to secretly record someone without their consent in many states.
> *crying* you could go to jail, get sued, trying to get evidence that
> their WS was cheating.


I consider it helpful if someone points out the illegality of a planned act. If someone ignores that advice and gets themselves in trouble, my coffee doesn't taste any worse.


> never saw a news headline BS in jail or sued for illegal use catching
> their WS cheating. because the last thing a WS or their AP wants is
> their affair becoming public news.


People get punished for worse things in marriages gone bad and stay off of the front page, so I wouldn't assume it doesn't happen. 


> a BS is not going to want to know business info, and will use any that
> he stumbles on. the employer will never know the BH examined the
> cell, PC, or other devices. so the WS has nothing to fear letting their
> spouse have access to those devices.


You might get away w/ it. Some people take agreements more seriously than others.


> only those that have something to hide, hide their devices.


Quoting Napoleon Dynamite, "Who would claim to know this?". I wouldn't let anyone browse my data, even though there's nothing in there I need to hide.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> Unless she sues him, then there will be no legal consequences for him - even if he sees that info.
> Also, it's not in her favor to cause legal consequences to OP because she'd also be accused and sued by her company for breach of NDA.
> 
> So it won't harm anybody to have OP have a look at the secret conversations his wife is having in work-email because OP is interested in catching any infidelity, not any secret info about her job.


If it came out at all that he did look at the phone, the company could take legal action, which would then involve him as well since they are married.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lovelygirl said:


> In every company you sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) and evey work-info (for all of us) is supposed to remain undisclosed to 3rd parties (and it stays that way) because, tbh, nobody outside cares to hear about our work, neither do the spouses(unless there is a huge issue affecting the family).


Any chance you can edit this? Not sure what you mean.


> Seems like some of you here are want to justify any unfaithfulness/inapropriate behavior under the umbrella of work-secrecy.


No, I did not come on a marriage site to promote infidelity, and I don't think hyperbole advances an argument.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sbrown said:


> If I thought for a second my lender had any of my information on a cell, I would be looking for a new lender.....


Good luck. Most of them have their information on portable devices, or access possibility on the device.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lovelygirl said:


> Lemme tell you this, if her work email were so confidential and so strict and so professional....., THEN WHY IS SHE EXCHANGING *PERSONAL *EMAILS with friends/family/ other male coworkers ?????
> Why does the IT at her company allow this???? If they were so strict, they wouldn't!!!!


This makes no sense. An employee sending a personal email does not compromise company data.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If there are suspected inappropriate emails with work clients, and these emails occur through a company email platform, I agree that OP is out of luck as to perusing her work email. No, you can't let your spouse view confidential work information and yes, employers and clients DO CARE about this. Oftentimes, even just the name of a client is confidential.

If this suspected contact is through personal email, but on a work phone, then of course that personal email could be shared with OP.

If it's access to her own personal relationship notes she keeps electronically, no. If she's keeping a diary, electronic or otherwise, about her feelings about their relationship, she's entitled to keep that to herself. 

It sounds like OP wants to read texts or emails between his wife and her mother and/or her friends about their relationship and some disagreements they are having. Of course he does. Doesn't make it right, though. Before my divorce I communicated with my parents and a couple of trusted friends for advice, help, support, etc. and my spouse did not have the right to read these communications.

In a good healthy relationship I think reading a spouse's current diary is over the line, and in a relationship with problems you are also entitled to have thoughts and conversations with yourself or your mom or your same sex friends that are private. That's what people do, they go to their family or friends for support and advice during troubled times, both males and females. Men also talk to their dads or a male friend about navigating relationship issues they are having.

That being said, OP's wife does not sound like a good partner and I think OP should definitely do something about that-- aside from reading her work email or personal diary notes.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Ugh. Go in the bedroom and take your testicles back out of your wife's purse.

Then download "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it about 200 times until it *means* something.

Stop being such a wet welcome mat.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> Whether or not the wife is doing something inappropriate with regards to the marriage, that does not make the work phone a legitimate target for determining that.


For God's sake! She is using THAT DEVICE to act upon her inappropriate actions. That's why the work phone is the target legitimate target to determine it.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> If it came out at all that he did look at the phone, the company could take legal action, which would then involve him as well since they are married.


How will it come out if nobody tells? So, don't worry. It won't come out as it's in NOBODY's interest to come out. Nor the wife's, nor OP's.

if you were in a similar situation, would you prefer to save the company information rather than your own marriage?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Actually, OP said he didn't think there is another party involved, he mainly wants to read her personal notes re disagreements they have and conversations with her mom and girlfriends about their relationship/disagreements.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> How will it come out if nobody tells? So, don't worry. It won't come out as it's in NOBODY's interest to come out. Nor the wife's, nor OP's.
> 
> if you were in a similar situation, would you prefer to save the company information rather than your own marriage?


Hmm so you think it's okay to ignore privacy policies just because it won't come out? I hope you are not employed by any legal, medical, or banking entity at which employees have client's personal and financial information if that is your attitude.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> How will it come out if nobody tells? So, don't worry. It won't come out as it's in NOBODY's interest to come out. Nor the wife's, nor OP's.
> 
> if you were in a similar situation, would you prefer to save the company information rather than your own marriage?


And to answer your question... I _absolutely would not_ violate my duty to my employer or my clients by sharing or giving access to confidential information. That duty to keep work information private is a pretty serious one and I would not violate it. If my marriage hinged upon me giving my spouse access to THAT INFORMATION then the marriage should be over.

In this case, though, the OP isn't looking to see confidential work information. So it's kinda a moot argument.

He wants to see personal stuff on her work phone.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> For God's sake! She is using THAT DEVICE to act upon her inappropriate actions. That's why the work phone is the target legitimate target to determine it.





lovelygirl said:


> How will it come out if nobody tells? So, don't worry. It won't come out as it's in NOBODY's interest to come out. Nor the wife's, nor OP's.
> 
> if you were in a similar situation, would you prefer to save the company information rather than your own marriage?


If he doesn't trust her enough to not need to look at the phone, then why is he even bothering to stay. As soon as your trust of the other is that low, what is the point of staying?

As to your last question, first off, if I could not be trusted with keeping confidential company assets, then how could I be trusted with anything else? For a reverse situation, I would never ask my spouses to view any of their devices, yet alone those with confidential information on them. As noted, if my trust was already gone, why stay? I don't need confirmation at that point.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> If he doesn't trust her enough to not need to look at the phone, then why is he even bothering to stay. As soon as your trust of the other is that low, what is the point of staying?


easier said than done. You can't leave a marriage just because you have doubts. What if OP might simply be paranoid? 
He has to confront his doubts and see if they are real or just his fantasy. Until then, of course he'll stay in marriage because it's not a like a _*relationship *_where you can jut get up and go.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> easier said than done. You can't leave a marriage just because you have doubts. What if OP might simply be paranoid?
> He has to confront his doubts and see if they are real or just his fantasy. Until then, of course he'll stay in marriage because it's not a like a _*relationship *_where you can jut get up and go.


If you are paranoid about it, then you're not really in a good relationship are you? And yes, he can just up and leave. The legal aspects might take a while to handle, but that's the risk you take getting legally married. Once legally separated (varies by state) a lot of marriages can be dissolved. As to what repercussions occur...it might be wise to move to a state that would be to his advantage and file there. But if there is no trust now, what makes anyone think there will be later?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> easier said than done. You can't leave a marriage just because you have doubts. What if OP might simply be paranoid?
> He has to confront his doubts and see if they are real or just his fantasy. Until then, of course he'll stay in marriage because it's not a like a _*relationship *_where you can jut get up and go.


Not sure at all what point you are trying to make.

"Confronting his doubts" absolutely does not give him the right to see confidential information of other parties from her place of employment, though.

But again, that's not what the OP wants. He wants to see personal stuff. His wife's personal writings about their relationship, and possibly discussion with her mom and girlfriends about issues they are having.

He can't make her turn over her work phone to him, but they do need to try to solve what's going on. 

You sure can just get up and go, whether your _relationship_ is a marriage, or something less legal.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> This is rubbish... If you cannot trust your spouse to not divulge something then you should not be married to them.
> 
> Having secrecy on a computer or cell is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree when it comes to work phones. I could have been fired for allowing someone to read my messages (explicit company policy), as there was sometimes confidential or proprietary information about the company or clients. I could also have lost my security clearance.

As for the OP's issues, I think that he has no basis to see her phone, as he _isn't_ concerned about an affair, apparently, but only what her _personal and private thoughts_ were about him in the past. She's with him now, even if the past notes say he was a jerk at the time.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> Good luck. Most of them have their information on portable devices, or access possibility on the device.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


😂🤣 yea. My banker needs my information beyond the walls of the bank....


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sbrown said:


> yea. My banker needs my information beyond the walls of the bank....


Did you not realize that many businesses who do financing, come to your home now and gather all your information there on their devices? I've been through it three times now with stuff for my dad's house. Banks are not the only businesses that handle confidential information.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> 😂🤣 yea. My banker needs my information beyond the walls of the bank....


Yeah they sure might, especially if trying to get a loan pushed through on a deadline and working at home, at night, or on the weekend.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Hmm so you think it's okay to ignore privacy policies just because it won't come out? I hope you are not employed by any legal, medical, or banking entity at which employees have client's personal and financial information if that is your attitude.


The only aim of OP is to check for personal conversation, NOT work-related conversations. So, in this case there is no _direct _ harm incurred to the clients or the company. If OP's aim were to read work-stuff to harm the clients/company, then this discussion would've turned into a completely new direction.
Therefore, in principle I agree that work-stuff should remain confidential but OP's case is different.
*His target is not related to work, *is related to his _personal life _and his wife is using the work-email to mess up their marriage.

And please, don't tell me who I should be employed by. Why don't you judge his wife who's using her *work*-email for *personal purposes*??? Don't you think that's a breach of trust for the company?
If his wife is using those means to cheat, then OP has the right to get his confirmations.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Livvie said:


> No, you can't let your spouse view confidential work information and yes,


OP doensn't want to look at the  confidential emails with clients. He wants to look at the *personal *emails that his wife is exchanging (with either the clients _or_ other coworkers). OP _is NOT interested in client's data_ or anything similar. He's interested in PERSONAL data that affect his own marriage.
Where's the breach in that????

If you and me exchange emails about the service that I offer and in_ other _emails we talk about *personal* stuff, where is the breach that my H would want to look at* our personal email-exchanges*( that might include cheating and other inappropriate behavior for a married woman)?
Your data remains confidential and anything related to work stays that way. OP will NOT want to read those emails. The only emails he wants to read are the ones that are PERSONAL in nature and that affect his marriage.

Can you make the difference now?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello Saints - I have just caught up on your thread and have a few observations:

Firstly, there should be no secrets between you and your wife - I don't care if she's got defence or NASA secrets on her phone (leave alone some poxy financial information about some old people) - so I agree with those that say she should be able to show the phone to you. It's not like you work for a rival firm or anything. And also especially since they have allowed her to use it as a personal phone with all the digital security gaps there are in modern social media. And how would her company know if you had looked at it or not? This company does not give a crap about her so who cares what they want or do not want (so long as they do not find out). Do you think they want to pay her a decent salary if they could get her to work for less? They do not care about her - but you do. So the reasons she gives for restricting you from looking at her phone do not hold water.

Secondly, she has almost certainly started a new life (for want of a better description). Whether it includes physical cheating or not is to be determined, but she is definitely flirting, partying, talking about attractive males, talking (negatively) about you, etc and enjoying being this fun-girl. Now, I have seen this happen many a time - its not so much a mid-life crisis as a sudden realisation that "I have never tried this life and maybe its time I did. Things are boring at home and married life is not all its cracked up to be. I get quite a buzz from the ego kibbles, drinks, secret life etc". So she is not going to let you into this new life of hers. And she is going to try and prolong it for as long as possible. She does not see this as her losing her way as you put it but more like finding her new, fun way. Also, it is worth noting that she does not see you as fun at all and so will not even consider doing this with you.

Next, is her vanity - worrying about her looks in comparison to other younger girls in the office. Normal, but not good. She is attractive and feels threatened by younger women is actually a sign of lack of self-worth - as if she believes that her main asset is her looks. You probably do not give her enough ego kibbles to counter this. By this I mean, any praise or appreciation you give her does not have the same currency value as it coming from others who also have access to these other younger women at work and so your thoughts and comments do not count.

Keeping notes about you is her way of justifying what she is doing (so that she has a checklist of what is wrong with you to refer to when she needs it).

The worst thing I have heard so far is her not having sex with you. She has lost attraction to you and that will be hard to get back especially with you trying to be understanding, patient and generally, the nice guy. This is one you need to tackle head-on. You need to confront her and force an honest answer other than I am tired or too busy. Make time to be together and if it does not work, then you have your answer and its divorce time I'm afraid.

All of the above would explain her not wanting you to come to parties and wanting to be with other people on Valentine's day. And you trying to explain it by saying she would rather you stay home and take care of the kids makes you appear weak when you agree. Do not justify it by saying that she was raised that way, when it is very clear to anyone on the outside looking in, what the real reason is.

So as others have advised, you have to deal with this "wife with a new life" of yours. Either you accept it and bury your head in the sand in which case it will almost certainly end in heartbreak - or - you confront with real consequences in which case it could end either way - still the better thing to do since it gets you out of this limbo you are in. And when I say confront, I do not mean do it in a weak, wishy-washy way. Lay down boundaries and conditions with real consequences that you are willing to enforce and follow up on for breach.

So the question is, are you prepared to really lose your wife in order to try and keep her? You need to be.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> The only aim of OP is to check for personal conversation, NOT work-related conversations. So, in this case there is no _direct _ harm incurred to the clients or the company. If OP's aim were to read work-stuff to harm the clients/company, then this discussion would've turned into a completely new direction.
> Therefore, in principle I agree that work-stuff should remain confidential but OP's case is different.
> *His target is not related to work, *is related to his _personal life _and his wife is using the work-email to mess up their marriage.
> 
> ...


I find it amazing that you make the point that he may just be paranoid and she isn't actually cheating, yet pretty much every other post is dealing with her cheating as fait accompli.

Further, if he is paranoid, would he then not believe that the incriminating evidence is hidden among the work related items, meaning that he has to look at the work related items to find them? It doesn't matter what his intents are The very fact that he is looking at the device is in violation of *law*, in one manner or another. While some are talking justification in cheating, you seem to be justifying violating the law.

Added onto this, if he goes and looks at the phone, especially behind her back, and especially if he finds nothing, he is suddenly the untrustworthy one. He might have his divorce regardless.

As I noted before, she may indeed be cheating. Find out. Do the whole hire a PI thing. If the company phone is a restricted device then he just lowers himself, and actually puts himself in a more vulnerable position in case of a divorce. Especially if she didn't


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> OP doensn't want to look at the  confidential emails with clients. He wants to look at the *personal *emails that his wife is exchanging (with either the clients _or_ other coworkers). OP _is NOT interested in client's data_ or anything similar. He's interested in PERSONAL data that affect his own marriage.
> Where's the breach in that????
> 
> If you and me exchange emails about the service that I offer and in_ other _emails we talk about *personal* stuff, where is the breach that my H would want to look at* our personal email-exchanges*( that might include cheating and other inappropriate behavior for a married woman)?
> ...


It doesn't matter what he intends to look at. the very fact of searching through the phone would mean a chance that he comes across the business related information.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lovelygirl said:


> Oh please. Cut this crap! I find it amazing how you're trying to justify her behavior and blame-shifting while making OP appear as the black sheep in this story.


I find it amazing that people are automatically assuming there is cheating going on. Again, you and many others are treating this as already done, so, as I said before, he should just leave her now. Why wait, if she is already cheating, as so many and yourself are saying. And as I have noted before, her cheating or not is independent of his violation of privacy laws. At no point am I saying that she can't be cheating. It's still a possibility. I, and others, are noting that the potential is not justification for violating the law.



> I didn't say OP is paranoid. It's not a fact. It could be a possibility (if indeed there is nothing to hide from his wife).


A possibility that it seems you don't believe in as every other post puts her actions as already done. You even say as much in the first line of your post. "...justify her behavior..." You've already condemned the woman who may not be doing anything more than what her work requires her to. Having worked with Secret and Confidential material before (I used to have Secret clearance in the Navy), you are not allowed to give access to the material even if the part you show doesn't have any Confidential or Secret information. 



> If she's got nothing to worry about then she should've ben open from day one.


If it was purely a personal device, I could care less if he violates her trust in searching that phone. If he's wrong, he's shown that he isn't worthy of her. If he's right, then he's justified in leaving. The key point isn't whether or not she has cheated, at any level, but the fact that this is a device with confidential material on it. Again let him hire the PI or look at other means. Pull her personal email account up on the computer. If she is using her work email to cheat, then he still has to go through other confidential material to see if the cheating evidence is there, so that's a no go. But pretty much all social media and other communications are available to be had on the computer as well as phones and tablets. If he is assuming she is cheating and using these personal accounts on her work phone, he can still access the accounts WITHOUT the actual phone. Bottom line there are ways to make the determination without using the company phone.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> The only aim of OP is to check for personal conversation, NOT work-related conversations. So, in this case there is no _direct _ harm incurred to the clients or the company. If OP's aim were to read work-stuff to harm the clients/company, then this discussion would've turned into a completely new direction.
> Therefore, in principle I agree that work-stuff should remain confidential but OP's case is different.
> *His target is not related to work, *is related to his _personal life _and his wife is using the work-email to mess up their marriage.
> 
> ...


You sure are aggressive. This is my last response involving your thoughts on OP's phone issue.

Firstly, to clear this up, I didn't tell you who you should be employed by. Don't write lies about me/what I've said, _that's not cool_. I said I hoped you weren't employed by an entity that needed employees to keep confidential information, given your attitude about confidential information and sharing it with spouses. That's not telling you who you should be employed by. I can hope and think alllllll kinds of things and none of it is telling you what you should or should not do.

OP states he mainly wants in to his wife's work phone to look at non work related items such as her diary of sorts and communication with mom and girlfriends.

OP I don't think you are going to win getting into her phone, and it's my opinion you should not necessarily get to read her diary or communication with her mom and girlfriends.

I think you need to let the work phone idea go and try to solve your marital issues another way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Livvie said:


> You sure are aggressive. This is my last response involving your thoughts on OP's phone issue.
> 
> Firstly, to clear this up, I didn't tell you who you should be employed by. Don't write lies about me/what I've said, _that's not cool_. I said I hoped you weren't employed by an entity that needed employees to keep confidential information, given your attitude about confidential information and sharing it with spouses. That's not telling you who you should be employed by. I can hope and think alllllll kinds of things and none of it is telling you what you should or should not do.
> 
> ...


I agree. Because it's unlikely she would say: "Mom! Sisters! Guess what? I am cheating on hubby! Isn't that cool?"

I think @Saints1234 has done what several people in this thread have done. Turned her work mobile phone into the holy grail, when it probably contains nothing of importance.

There are other ways he can get the details he believes he needs that don't include her phone.


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## mjr810 (Aug 24, 2008)

BluesPower said:


> There is no privacy in a marriage, if you cannot see it you should not be married, bottom line...


Hi BluesPower, What about advice seeking on this site? For instance, using it to check yourself vs. what other married people think or have done.


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## mjr810 (Aug 24, 2008)

BluesPower said:


> This is rubbish... If you cannot trust your spouse to not divulge something then you should not be married to them.
> 
> Having secrecy on a computer or cell is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> ...


Hmm. I don’t like the idea of snooping. All too often the information found is incomplete and can be misinterpreted leading one to a conclusion that could very well be incorrect.

Let’s say you (not you personally, of course) find something but don’t have the nerve to address it. Instead, you twist in anxiety about all the possibilities. This happens and it happens all the time.

Privacy is one of those things that doesn’t always get addressed before a marriage. We may well assume our partner has the same thoughts on privacy as ourselves, then find out later that is not the case.

Not to be rude here but lots of younger people think they are fully developed and know it all about the human condition. With age we learn how little we know vs. how much more there is to know about life. Tying this in, when we know everything we make certain assumptions about others and ourselves, ie, the privacy issue. All too often we are way off base.

Not surprising that the divorce rate is so high. And, among those married, I would bet there are plenty more who wish they weren’t but never got up the nerve to make a move. I am one of them, sad to say.

Here’s something I clipped from another site. Its a simple but revealing story.
This is Carl.








Carl wants to go on a ski trip for winter break.








So, he books a trip to Michigan and pays $100 for it. Carl researched the slopes there a lot and they look good, but not great.
Only, the thing is, Carl really likes skiing. So he also plans another trip to Wisconsin and pays $50 for it. It looks like an amazing trip, ideal really.
Weeks beforehand, Carl realizes he booked the trips at the same time. He can only go on one and he can’t get a refund.








Place your bets. Which does he choose?
Carl, and the majority of people in a psychological experiment done by Hal Arkes and Catehrine Blumer, will pick Michigan, even though it’s objectively the worse trip.
Why?
Sunk cost fallacy.
Humans are wired to fixate on losses. We focus on negative experiences exponentially more than positive ones.
So, we strive to make our losses feel like less.
Even though Wisconsin was a better opportunity, Carl decided to take the trip that cost more because that decision made him feel like he was losing less.
And that’s the fallacy.
We think because we’ve spent time and energy and money on something that we have to see it through, we’re invested. We don’t want our investment to be a loss.
For Carl, the money is gone no matter what. The best choice is what promises the better experience not the one that mitigates his fear of loss.
Sunk cost fallacy.
It’s why Carl spent a miserable break in Michigan.
It’s why a gambler who’s down $500 will ignore odds and go all in to win it back.
It’s why some people spend an entire lifetime with someone they’re unhappy with, even when leaving would give them the freedom they long for.
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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

mjr810 said:


> Hi BluesPower, What about advice seeking on this site? For instance, using it to check yourself vs. what other married people think or have done.


I don't know if you are a vendor or something, but my answer it this question is this. 

I won't say that I have not gotten some good ideas that things to think about from this and other sites... However, I am here to help where I an, lean where I can and all of this. 

My general ways to handle thing, how I am and what I think are very well established. I do what I think is the right thing a I really do not care what others think. I am not saying that I will not listen to a good point from someone but I am also not saying they will change my mind.

I have thought a long time about what I think and feel about life, love, raising kids, and a host of other issues. My opinions are set, and unless you have new information that is trustworthy and relevant I will not be changing my mind about it...


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