# Need Input About MY Family Drama...



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I'm posting this in Coping With Infidelity, because that's actually what it is, but from a unique angle than what is usually discussed on TAM...

About 4 years ago, my younger sister blew up her marriage and our family in the most hurtful and unforgivable way (for ME) as possible.

She was married to her husband for 20 years, and cheated on him with multiple men for 15 of those years. DISGUSTING. But for me, that wasn't the worst part...when she finally found "the one" who she said was her "soulmate" (blah blah) (she's always been emotionally STUPID), she not only decided to leave her husband, but because SHE was the one who had committed so many secret betrayals against him, and was (IS) supposedly a Christian, she had to REWRITE their history to attempt to avoid taking ANY responsibility for HER OWN ACTIONS...

What that means is, she created LIE after LIE after LIE against her husband - he was a sexual predator, he was potentially abusive, she never loved him, she only married him because our parents wanted her to, etc etc...and on and on it went.
And because my family was so spiritually BANKRUPT, and being led by another sister of mine (who is NOT "Christian" at all), EVERYONE WENT ALONG WITH THE OBVIOUS LIES.

EXCEPT ME.

And the problem everyone had with ME was that I had the TRUTH on my side. So I won every argument about it, and kept throwing a wrench into my family's plans to give my sister a sainthood and to villainize my brother-in-law. Consequently, no one wanted to talk to me about anything.

THE ABSOLUTE WORST PART to me was that my sister was willing to destroy the security and relationship her young teen girls had with their father, gaslighting them, coming right out and telling them graphic details of how he had "sexually abused" her (LIES), mocking him and tearing him down in the worst ways...so that only now, 4 years later, are the two youngest girls now rebuilding their relationship with him.
But that's nothing to compare to the fact that none of the three of them want ANY relationship with God like they had before all this. So what that means is that my sister also KILLED GOD in the hearts of her girls. One of them (she is 17 now) has had an alcohol problem since this all began (when she was 13), and the other is suicidal and cuts herself. This all started after my sister began her crusade to find her own "true happiness", and destroyed everything in her path.

Needless to say, I REFUSED to back anything that she did or said (I am the oldest sibling, of 6 of us)...I openly condemned her and all of them, reminding them of what the truth was, with proof...I was very inconvenient for them all in their quest to keep themselves squeaky clean in the ****-show they were engaging in.

It all came to a head when I sent a text to my parents calling everyone out on the absolute disgusting nature of the lies and destruction they were all perpetrating on the children, which was the worst crime in my mind. And they all ganged up on me, and cut me out and off of everything, mocking me, rejecting me, etc etc. I spent 6 weeks crying about it, and my own children have disowned them ALL because of how I was treated, and how they all acted with the lying and everything else.

All I had after was a still-contentious relationship with one sister, and my parents. After the pain and shock of the rejection wore off, I've been steadfastly FINE with the outcome, I love them all, of course, but there will NEVER be a restoration of any relationship for me with any of them.

The funny thing to me is that if my sister had been HONEST about everything, she would have had my full support to divorce him - in fact, I think he deserves MUCH better than HER, and he's remarried and I'm happy for him. I told my parents, I KNEW what the truth of her life and her choices were, I had PROOF, and I was NEVER going to go along with the lies EVER. Especially when they deeply injured the souls of her three young girls. The selfishness of the adults in my family astounds me...

It's going on 4 years since the blow-out. My one sister that I still speak to has been wanting me to "reconcile" with everyone for 3 years at least, and the cheating sister who started all this has wanted to contact me and "restore" our relationship for 1 1/2 yrs at least, and I've stopped her this whole time.
That means I've now been positioned as the one who is blocking our family reconciling and becoming whole again (blah blah) (what the hell am I missing out on?). I have explained over and over that I don't have now, nor will I ever have, ANY interest in restoring my relationship with ANY of my siblings...I am HAPPY and perfectly OK now. I will NEVER be able to trust any of them again...I love them all...but that's the limit. Still, the pressure continues. 

So I finally allowed my (cheating, lying) sister to email me, after 18+ months of refusing. So the email I got from her says this...

_Hi Lisa,
Some of my absolutely favorite memories are of me packing up my kids and hooking up the camper and driving down to NC. The kids had a blast and so did you and I! I would still be making that trip today if things were different. *I honestly don’t know what I did to hurt you so much that you would completely cut me out of your life.* Whatever it was I can promise you it wasn’t intentional and I am so very sorry. I love you and miss you. Can we please not waste anymore time, it’s already been four years!!! Life goes by so fast..._

My favorite part is what I bolded...yeah, right!! Lol! Well, guess what, little sister, I don't believe you "don't know", and it was FULLY INTENTIONAL. 

This is "rug sweeping" in it's most glorious form!!!! My view is that I haven't lost much by cutting these types of people out of my life.

So I answered her (but I haven't sent it yet)...and I'd like to know what the people on here think of this...

_You broke my heart to save yourself, along with (even worse to me) your own children's hearts. You watched our entire family gang up on me and tear me down, knowing that I was telling the truth, and YOU were the liar....so that no one would believe what I knew about you, and you could continue playing the victim. It worked. You got everyone, I lost them all. Just because YOU have moved on, it's all very fresh and painful for me and even my kids. That's the other tragedy in all this - I think they may never forgive anyone...for the lying and for attacking me. I cried for 6 hellish weeks almost every day. While you went right along being Snow White. Everything that I loved and valued and trusted about my family DIED that day.

I promise you, you DO NOT want to deal with me - I will never get over this without TRUTH. The sad thing is that I would have supported you if only you had been honest and not instead destroyed everything that you were obligated to protect, for your own self-interest. This was NEVER about the cheating on or leaving your husband...it was about the person you became in order to do it. You were someone I didn't recognize or respect, and ignoring you was the only message I could send to let you know I wanted you to DO WHAT WAS RIGHT. Since you chose the path of throwing everything away for your own SELFISH interest, you have lost ME. I will always LOVE you, really...but there will NEVER be a restoration of our relationship. _

I get alot of crap from my one sister who still talks to me and my parents about "God's forgiveness" and all that jazz, but after watching them all misquote the Bible and "Christian" principles to fit the ugly, dishonest narrative they needed to embrace, I am totally UNmoved by their convenient Christianity...TRUE principles DO NOT fluctuate. This is NOT about "forgiveness" for me. This is about the types of people (blood relation or not) who I can trust and respect enough to make the effort to have them in my life...and none of them fit in that category for me anymore.

So please, anyone who wants to chime in, PLEASE DO...I want to hear any and all thoughts and opinions that anyone wants to share, whether I agree with them or not. I am almost impossible to offend, so be open with anything you want to point out to me. And if anyone has any questions, feel free to pose them...this isn't even the tip of the iceburg of what happened, but it's the basic issue I'm facing now. I have TOTAL and COMPLETE PEACE with the path I chose with what happened. I just want some other opinions from people who have faced this...people who DO NOT think "rug sweeping" and "rewriting history" are moral and respectable ways to handle conflicts and get what we want.

THANK YOU in advance...


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Write to your sister who talks about “God’s forgiveness” and remind her that he forgives a REPENTANT sinner and your other sister doesn’t fall into this category. 
As for the rest of your family I think you should let them know that you’re not interested in playing happy families with a bunch of hypocrites and then block them on everything.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@LisaDiane ,

I'm going to be brief, but to give you a little context, my mom is untreated, unmedicated bipolar (and has been for decades), and my dad is an alcoholic--sometimes dry and sometimes drinking, but not recovering. When I was a child, my mom and dad would fight violently. When I was a young teen, my mom would beat us daily, and my dad would drive down to the bar and drink to avoid dealing with it. So...it was a difficult childhood. 

To this day, my mom says things like "I don't know what I did for you to still be mad at me" and I will say to her face that she beat me. She'll then say, "Well, it was because of ___" or "It was discipline, not beating..." and long story short, she never, ever has admitted (to herself or others) that what she did was wrong. She was a fully grown, adult woman, and she would hit me with a broom handle, a brush, or a rolling pin every day until she was tired from hitting me. That is BEATING. 

So I understand the feeling you have of never, ever being able to forgive. What I learned long ago is that forgiving is not about THEM at all. It is about us. If we keep the darkness of an unforgiving spirit within us, it harms us, not them. But forgiving does not mean ACCEPTING or allowing them back in our lives. My mom was a flawed human being like us all. She has mental illness and won't get treatment for it. So to the extent that I see her as a suffering fellow human, I forgive her for the harm she did to me. Forgive = release them from indebtedness. I don't hold onto the debt she owes me for hurting me physically, mentally and spiritually. BUT I don't go buddy, buddy up with her either. Things aren't "the way they used to be" and I have boundaries around what I will and will not accept in my life, and often her choices are outside my boundaries...so SHE is outside my boundaries. 

Therefore, I would indeed encourage you to forgive you sister from the horrendous hurt she caused to literally your entire, extended family. Your sister is a selfish, imperfect human being just like the rest of us. But that in no way means "letting her back in your life" nor being friends and having to do things "her way" and pretend the truth didn't happen. The truth DID happen, and you can choose that your boundary is that you will only allow into your life those who operate in truth and light and love.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like total and complete peace in my mind from your opening post... you still sound angry and hurt by what has happened.

When we leave the things that hurt us, we have to remember that there are many ways that such can be reintroduced into our lives.

This is where loving-kindness can strengthen all.

We cannot live behind walls and be healthy... civility does not mean you let people drag you into their unmindfulness, it is natural to feel poorly toward those who treat us badly and we have to work on how to keep healthy distances without building the walls of isolation that robs us of our true inner peace.

I have members of my family that I would probably be quite happy to not see much of but the reality is I will at some point, so my place is one of peace because I am very clear in my mind and heart of what is in my control and what isn't. I do not have to engage in conversations I do not wish to be in, I can choose where I stand and what boundaries I will live. If I am there for 20 minutes and can remain nonjudgemental, I will have had a very good 20 minutes.

If at minute 21 I realize my peace is disturbed, then it is time to pay attention and be aware that I had at least those good 20 minutes as I am saying my goodbyes and leave with less focus on the bad minority and be thankful on the good majority.

These things are in my control.

The things that are not in my control?

I let them pass through without inviting them in for tea.

We are both happier that way.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

God's forgiveness is promised to all who repent, admit their sins, are truly sorry for the damage caused, and ask for forgiveness.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Wow your family is really messed up, just wow. 

I don't think your letter goes far enough. in a way, is sounds like you condone some of her cheating, just not lying and tearing down her husband. 

I don't think you mean that i think you should condemn all of her behavior. I mean cheating for 15 out of 20 years is just low down **** behavior. Then destroying a man with his kids and family...

Short of murder or child molestation, what it worse than what she did. 

I don't think it says half of what it should say....


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sometimes you might feel that you have to cut things out of your life in order to protect yourself. Only you can judge whether you need to do that in this case. It doesn't sound like you are anywhere near ready to let bygones be bygones with your sister. Talking to a therapist might help you decide how you want to move forward with this. As it is, I wouldn't send the reply that you drafted. She is rewriting history and you are angry. Why not let her have her reality and you can have yours until you've made some peace with this in your mind? There is no law that says that you have to respond at all.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I discovered long ago that distancing myself from the toxic people in my extended family was necessary for my sanity. I have never changed my mind. Do I wish that hadn't been necessary? Sure. But I don’t believe in rewarding bad behavior.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I think your draft reply is way too long. 

The nub of it is, "You say you have no idea what you did. I don't believe you about that." 

That's kind of all it needs.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Forgive them all. Yet walk away from them.


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

In journalism class you’re taught to ask questions that warrant an extensive response. ie, don’t ask a serial killer if he did it but rather “Why do you think people believe you did it”. 

Personally I would cut bait with family. But if you respond to your sis email just ask “Tell me honestly on why you think I stopped talking with you?”

put the ball in her court. Make her physically put it on paper/or email her transgression.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Forgive them all. Yet walk away from them.


^^^^ This. When it comes to family ultimately as an adult we have to pick and choose our battles. It seems like the OP is spending a lot of time worrying about things she has no control over. I get that bad things happen when good people stand by and do nothing about it, but when it comes to intervening the reality is we don't have a heck of whole lot of say so when a family member blows up their life. About all we can do is offer our opinion and support, or walk away if things are going down a path that we don't agree with. While upsetting to be honest the OP's story isn't all that terrible to me. People say awful things about each other during their divorce, but it sounds like the kids and even the ex-husband have moved forward with their lives. I think its time the OP does the same. The only thing she needs to decide is if that includes her family or not. Regardless of what choice she makes I think the OP will be happier if she lets go of the anger. You know its time to let go of things when even the people that were most wronged by a situation seem to be moving forward and putting their lives back together and you're still stuck. Based on my read, the actual drama is long gone and in the past.


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

It’s very common for families to stand by their members even if they aren’t right, in this type of sitatuion. They shouldn’t have, but they did. 

You can choose to carry all this hurt/anger for the rest of your life. Or you can put this past situation behind you all, accept her apology, agree to never bring it up agan, and reunite with your family. You have stood by your principals, everyone knows where you stood on this issue, and they also all know you were right. Maybe it is time to let it go?

If you accept this apology, and agree to leave all this behind you guys and go from this day forward, you will have a lot more peace in your soul. A big part of being a family is forgiving each other, even for some pretty big stuff.


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I think you should be asking yourself if they're even worth engaging. No offense but your family sounds like ****. Just because they're blood doesn't mean you owe them forgiveness. Especially since it doesn't sound like they're all that remorseful for what they did. You don't owe them forgiveness, nor are you required to give it.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

THANKS for all the responses!!!

I want to clarify just a few things...first, I have been absolutely fine with things how they are with me and my family, and I've been so happy to let the drama be gone out of my life. I've actually said to my parents and sister who I still speak to, that I DO forgive all the pain my other sisters caused me, and the utter destruction she caused with my nieces. I told them, I still LOVE all of them, and have let the pain go with understanding; however my boundary is that I DO NOT want to be part of their lives, or have them be part of mine. There will be NO peace for me, because I am NOT a "rug-sweeper", and that's what they all want me to do. They are NOT sorry for any of the pain they caused me. I cannot have a relationship with people like that. I should have had unconditional love and connection with them, yet they weren't willing to give that to me. And that's ok, I DO understand. But then I will never trust any of them enough to have a relationship.

The anger you hear in my post is because in spite of my boundaries remaining the same for almost 4 years now, I am STILL being pushed to move it...and I am unwilling to do so - for my own emotional and spiritual well-being. Whenever I talk about what happened, I am NOT angry at all. I still honestly tell how things went down, but I'm really NOT angry about it.
I am angry that the boundaries I have set are NOT being respected, and I am getting tired of having to keep facing this pressure to give my family something they were totally unwilling to give me.

Second, I loved the replies by @Affaircare and @Emerging Buddhist about "forgiveness" and moving on and setting boundaries, but I'd like to know more about what you mean with that in my specific situation...? What would that look like for ME? Because I DO feel like I've already gotten to that point, so what are you suggesting that I do differently...? And HOW do you set boundaries with people who don't respect them in any way??

Maybe that is what my problem is with this - I have already done what I am comfortable and willing to do. I have forgiven them, I care about them (from afar), and I have set the boundaries that keep ME emotionally healthy -- yet, I am still not being respected, and again, no one actually CARES about ME...that's why what I want does not matter to them. I cannot have relationships with people who do not respect or care about me in any way.

From what I see, my sister is still being a self-centered liar, trying to get her own way at the expense of others (Me). Believe me, in our entire relationship, I was the GIVER, and she was the TAKER - but I was happy to do it, because I loved her and believed that I mattered to her (and my other sisters). So having her not be part of my life for the past 4 years has been easier for me, because I haven't had the demands of a relationship with her.
After everything that happened, I no longer am willing to make the emotional investment in a relationship with any of them that brings absolutely NO return for me, not even emotional safety and unconditional love.

Aren't all relationships kind of the same, too...?? I mean, would anyone advocate a spouse staying in a relationship with their partner who had betrayed them in the way my sisters did to me, if the partner wanted to rug-sweep what happened and just wanted things to go back to the way they were before...? I know I wouldn't!! I see my relationships with my sisters in sort of the same way - I love them and want them to be well, but I cannot "be with" them anymore.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

TDSC60 said:


> God's forgiveness is promised to all who repent, admit their sins, are truly sorry for the damage caused, and ask for forgiveness.


RIGHT...?!? THIS was my point from the beginning, and she has NEVER "repented" or admitted anything...so God doesn't "forgive" her either, according to their own beliefs...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> Write to your sister who talks about “God’s forgiveness” and remind her that he forgives a REPENTANT sinner and your other sister doesn’t fall into this category.
> As for the rest of your family I think you should let them know that you’re not interested in playing happy families with a bunch of hypocrites and then block them on everything.


Thank you Andy! The hypocrisy is really the hardest thing for me to deal with.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> Wow your family is really messed up, just wow.
> 
> I don't think your letter goes far enough. in a way, is sounds like you condone some of her cheating, just not lying and tearing down her husband.
> 
> ...


And BP, I only relayed THE VERY TIP of the ice burg with what she (and they all) did...it was a truly ugly, disappointing time for me...I couldn't believe it was happening!! My children (who are in their 20s) were devastated to realize that their "perfect" family was actually "trash" (to use their words). 

I have a much longer, more specific letter I wrote her about a year ago that I was thinking of linking in my email.
I NEVER condoned the cheating, but I would have supported her leaving her husband if she had taken responsibility for being an actual sex addict (which we had talked about and I had tried helping her with for several years).

I believe it is SELFISHNESS that is the true source of all the ugliness that happened, on all sides...I find that's true for most of what goes wrong in any relationship.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> I think your draft reply is way too long.
> 
> The nub of it is, "You say you have no idea what you did. I don't believe you about that."
> 
> That's kind of all it needs.


I almost want to send her a reply that says simply... "NO" ...and leave it at that!!


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@LisaDiane,

It is very late here and I am typing on my phone. I just wanted to let you know I am going to reply to you more fully tomorrow.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> ...
> Second, I loved the replies by @Affaircare and @Emerging Buddhist about "forgiveness" and moving on and setting boundaries, but *I'd like to know more about what you mean with that in my specific situation...? What would that look like for ME?* Because I DO feel like I've already gotten to that point, so *what are you suggesting that I do differently...? And HOW do you set boundaries with people who don't respect them in any way??*
> 
> Maybe that is what my problem is with this - I have already done what I am comfortable and willing to do. I have forgiven them, I care about them (from afar), and I have set the boundaries that keep ME emotionally healthy -- yet, I am still not being respected, and again, no one actually CARES about ME...that's why what I want does not matter to them. I cannot have relationships with people who do not respect or care about me in any way.
> ...


I can't speak for @Emerging Buddhist (although I will say "hi" to him for you!) but when I wrote my post I was looking at the tone of your original post, the way you described what happened and the words you chose, her note to you and the reaction letter that you wrote back to her. In all those things (the tone, the words chosen, her note and your reaction letter) I very clearly heard a lot of hurt and anger in your heart. Now I'm not saying you go around in daily life throwing out anger left and right, or that you express this hurt all day every day to your parents and sisters. But inside yourself, in your innermost being, it sounds like there is a lot of what I think of as "darker goo" rather than a sweet, kind, loving-compassion.

So you asked what you would do differently (since you think you have already forgiven them) and what it would specifically look like for YOU. You also asked how to set boundaries with peole who don't respect them in any way (I LOVE that question!), and I'll get into that after I've answered the first, okay?

I sympathize with you that your family has hurt you in tremendous and horrible ways, and they don't care about it one bit. I empathize with you, actually! It is a pretty crushing feeling to face reality and realize that your own parents don't care about you enough to keep themselves from harming you--and when they do harm you to avoid doing the hard work themselves not only do they not admit it, they don't care! It's sad! I can't tell you how often I've wished I had parents who love me, but in reality I DON'T. Now...here's the difference between you and I, I think. I hear you saying you forgive your parents and your sister, and yet your words and tone say you still feel a LOT of anger and indignation over the past. If you thought of Anger as a being or a person who showed up at your door uninvited, you opened the door, asked Anger to tea. Now normally it is realistic to experience the feeling as it's happening and in this instance, it would be very realistic to say "Yep, Anger arrived and I didn't ask it to come, but here it is and I'm feeling it." Then after some tea--it is time to let Anger leave... but it seems that you grabbed onto it and asked Anger to set up a tent and stay a while! Now you have a roommate in your heart: Anger! Again I realize it's not every day or constant, but that emotion has its own whole guest bedroom and bath, and it spends the day playing video games and messing up the house instead of looking for a job and moving out! What would you do differently? Ask Anger to move out and move along.

Now if Anger is given an eviction, what does that look like? I would say that it starts with seeing the people who hurt you and continues to hurt you as human beings. For example, you've mentioned that your sister is a sex addict, and I don't know if that's something you have discussed with her or just something you believe...but have you ever thought about what a sex addict would feel like? The only value a sex addict feels like they have is if someone wants them sexually. The only coping mechanism they use to release stress or anxiety or fear is sex! They usually come from a dysfunctional family and were sexually abused in childhood, so they have a warped sense of Love=Sex and they want to be loved, just like anyone else. In a way, doesn't that sound sad? Doesn't that sound like a painful way to live and feel? When you start to shift your view of the abuser from 'That Person Hurt Me and Owes Me' to 'That Person is a Hurting Being Too, and yes they hurt me but they are actually a human being doing the best they can just like me' ... it kind of changes the Anger to compassion.

Now, as I mentioned in my post, I view my mother this way. I suspect she thinks she loves me, yet how does a grown up woman hit a child until the grown adult is TIRED FROM HITTING...and think that's loving? It's just not love! But I also think my mom is a human being who had/has her own struggles. Same for my dad. I suspect he does think he loves me, but how does a man leave his kids to be hit and claim to love them? Does not compute! But he is a human being who has an addiction. So forgiveness means I see them with a soft heart. And that's where I would challenge you to go--evict Anger, let go of it, clean up the mess it leaves in your heart, and view your parents as flawed people who are too afraid to look at their own faults. View your sister as a addicted person who is so out of touch with reality she views herself as unloveable unless someone acts sexually with her. Have compassion on how icky it must feel for them to have to twist themselves into knots to support their lack of reality. Soft heart.

And then? Then comes this question "How to set boundaries with peole who don't respect them in any way." You know boundaries are not about them...not AT ALL. You don't make a bunch of rules that they have to live by. If you did that, it would be YOU being controlling... controlling them. Nope, boundaries are about YOU and controlling yourself. They are 100% completely free to choose to be assholes or liars or whatever yucky thing they choose to do. The boundary would be "That's your choice. My choice is that I will not allow liars to be close to me." Now it sounds like you have a very good understanding of wanting to forgive them (but as I discussed above, let that past go)...and then choosing to not have them as part of your life. Okay. You are 100% witnin your rights to choose who you want in your life and who you don't. But to set a boundary with someone, you just state it dispassionately...and walk away!

So let's put it all together. Your sister, who lied to the whole family while you tried to say the truth, and who knew all along that SHE was the one who was lying and not you, writes:

_Hi Lisa,
Some of my absolutely favorite memories are of me packing up my kids and hooking up the camper and driving down to NC. The kids had a blast and so did you and I! I would still be making that trip today if things were different. *I honestly don’t know what I did to hurt you so much that you would completely cut me out of your life.* Whatever it was I can promise you it wasn’t intentional and I am so very sorry. I love you and miss you. Can we please not waste anymore time, it’s already been four years!!! Life goes by so fast..._

Here's an example of a response that's forgiven with strong boundaries:

_Hi Sister,
Those were some of my favorite memories too, and like you I am sad that we are unable to do those camping trips to NC anymore. But both my kids and I are aware of the way you treated me when you cheated on and divorced your husband, and because of the way you were able to hurt me and my kids and even your own kids without concern for the harm being done to us, I am not willing to put myself into association with you at this time. I miss the sister I thought I had, and I love you even as flawed as you are. As long as there is life there is hope for you to get the help you need to recover from your sexual addiction and begin living an honest, honorable life. Sadly, at this time I am choosing to not allow you back into my life. Both my kids and I are happy and safe because I have not allowed dishonest, harmful people near us. I wish you no ill will, and hope that one day you do enter recovery. _


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

> So what that means is that my sister also KILLED GOD in the hearts of her girls.


My friend, God is not so easily killed, just because it looks bad now does not mean it will always stay that way. I suggest you stop taking this upon yourself to fix and let him handle it. It's too big for you or anyone.



> Luke 12 - 2 For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore what you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light. And what you have whispered in the ear in private rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops.


Honestly be a friend and comfort to the innocent in this story and wait for God's judgment to fall on those who would hurt them for their own gains.

The one thing I would not do is call that which is evil good. Then you are no better then them so if that is what it takes to restore the relationship then it's better not to have one. In your sisters case just speak the truth.

Frankly you sister sounds like a sociopath or the very least a narcissist. I don't think you can have a good relationship with someone like that unless it's on their terms. Which is not a real relationship anyway. So unless there is real repentance don't waste your time.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> I think your draft reply is way too long.
> 
> The nub of it is, "You say you have no idea what you did. I don't believe you about that."
> 
> That's kind of all it needs.


How about, "When you figure it out then we can talk."


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> And BP, I only relayed THE VERY TIP of the ice burg with what she (and they all) did...it was a truly ugly, disappointing time for me...I couldn't believe it was happening!! My children (who are in their 20s) were devastated to realize that their "perfect" family was actually "trash" (to use their words).
> 
> I have a much longer, more specific letter I wrote her about a year ago that I was thinking of linking in my email.
> I NEVER condoned the cheating, but I would have supported her leaving her husband if she had taken responsibility for being an actual sex addict (which we had talked about and I had tried helping her with for several years).
> ...



So being that she is a sex addict don't discount the fact that there is a lot more monsters in your family closet then even you know about and that might be why family members have a vested interest in pretending like everything is normal and forgiven. There may be a very long history of sweeping things under the carpet. It might be to say the truth will expose a deeper hypocrisy. That is kind of how stuff like this works.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sokillme said:


> So being that she is a sex addict don't discount the fact that there is a lot more monsters in your family closet then even you know about and that might be why family members have a vested interest in pretending like everything is normal and forgiven. There may be a very long history of sweeping things under the carpet. It might be to say the truth will expose a deeper hypocrisy. That is kind of how stuff like this works.


Yeah I gotta agree with @sokillme on this one. My family was one of those "bury it and take it with ya to the grave" kind of families and that's because there's divorces, physical abuse, addictions, mental illness, and even some incest that one insists happened and another denies vehemently (of course). The point being that often people rugsweep this hard when there are some serious skeletons in that closet. SERIOUS.

However, at the very same time, all three of my sisters and I refused to live that way, and all three of us have broken the cycle. My parents still live in it, but that is their choice.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Christians are called to forgive but not forget the nature of the crime or grievance. Forgiving your sister and the family is the right thing to do. Right now you are still punishing them and yourself. Forgiveness frees you not necessarily them. It is not your job to hold them accountable, that is between them and God.
We are constantly told to love the sinner not the sin. Forgiving her will do this.
You can write what you wrote but say you forgive her but you do not want an unauthentic relationship when you both know the truth of what has happened and you will not pretend. You could meet her to extend the forgiveness and it is entirely up to you what happens from there.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Tell her you forgive her and that you will pray for her. (That's like the Christian get bent).


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> THANKS for all the responses!!!
> 
> I want to clarify just a few things...first, I have been absolutely fine with things how they are with me and my family, and I've been so happy to let the drama be gone out of my life. I've actually said to my parents and sister who I still speak to, that I DO forgive all the pain my other sisters caused me, and the utter destruction she caused with my nieces. I told them, I still LOVE all of them, and have let the pain go with understanding; however my boundary is that I DO NOT want to be part of their lives, or have them be part of mine. There will be NO peace for me, because I am NOT a "rug-sweeper", and that's what they all want me to do. They are NOT sorry for any of the pain they caused me. I cannot have a relationship with people like that. I should have had unconditional love and connection with them, yet they weren't willing to give that to me. And that's ok, I DO understand. But then I will never trust any of them enough to have a relationship.
> 
> ...


For you what does this mean? It means you recognize that you define the relationship... you always have.

You know how setting boundaries is not about changing or trying to change other's behaviors... so perhaps your frustrations are more about how they fail to respect the things you want them to respect, thus when they don't... you are hurt.

Who wouldn't be hurt? It's hard to accept that they are that way... but they are and fair standards be done away with.

Acceptance does not mean giving in to their unmindful wishes, empathy and compassion for those that do not respect boundaries is loving-kindness in spades... all the will and control is ours though, not theirs, and bundled into a wonderful package of our "hard no" in their ability to sway the right effort that their direction of trying to set our standards by their standards.

It doesn't mean we are better people, it simply means we work hard to understand and believe in living life in a way that can see begin to practice unconditional love, walking the walk, talking the talk in a way that enriches and add light to hearts that choose differently.

Unconditional love is practiced in small bites, it is not something that can be lived in all conditions as wonderful as that sounds, but it can be given freely when it is needed the most... I am already practicing kind thoughts for the gathering I know will come all too soon for me when family who hurt my marriage will be present when my mother passes.

I will be gracious for several simple reasons, their hearts deserve more kindness as shows in their struggles, but even more... I deserve it. This is loving myself more and ensuring I am seeing what is really there and not the things I only want to see... how hurt I was in the past, because the past is really where it belongs.

They may never get it... but then they will never get "us" either as long as they are wandering such a path of trying to control that which they can't.

Our happiness..


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I am big about forgiveness, leaving yesterday’s crap there and moving on. I know this is not always possible, but many times it is if I can just let it go. 

A couple questions you might ask yourself (no need to reply here unless you want too):

If one of these family members were to die unexpectedly today, (and truly imagine it happening, you getting the call that they are deceased etc) would you have regrets?

Since they are clearly missing the point, or ignoring the point, what is being gained all these years later? Is it worth more to be “right” vs. what all is being lost?

Are you perhaps missing out on some wonderful family memories, and also causing your parents to not be able to have all their kids together for special occasions?

If your sister came to you and admitted fault, would you even believe her this far after the fact?

Have you perhaps carried this torch so long that you are simply unwilling to lay it down?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> So being that she is a sex addict don't discount the fact that there is a lot more monsters in your family closet then even you know about and that might be why family members have a vested interest in pretending like everything is normal and forgiven. There may be a very long history of sweeping things under the carpet. It might be to say the truth will expose a deeper hypocrisy. That is kind of how stuff like this works.


SKM, there ARE, and I know them ALL...that was where the proof I had came from - trying for a few years to help her (at her request even). Really, what happened is the deepest hypocrisy...and the only way anything could be worse than what happened would have been if she had murdered my brother-in-law and children...and I'm not exaggerating...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

@


Affaircare said:


> I can't speak for @Emerging Buddhist (although I will say "hi" to him for you!) but when I wrote my post I was looking at the tone of your original post, the way you described what happened and the words you chose, her note to you and the reaction letter that you wrote back to her. In all those things (the tone, the words chosen, her note and your reaction letter) I very clearly heard a lot of hurt and anger in your heart. Now I'm not saying you go around in daily life throwing out anger left and right, or that you express this hurt all day every day to your parents and sisters. But inside yourself, in your innermost being, it sounds like there is a lot of what I think of as "darker goo" rather than a sweet, kind, loving-compassion....


I just want to say THANK YOU for this absolutely beautiful, detailed, loving reply...it really touched my heart and sparked a light bulb of understanding for me about what you mean. I agree whole-heartedly with everything you wrote, and even more importantly, I respect it and the place in you that it comes from!! You have a true GIFT for connecting with people and expressing yourself, and I'm grateful that you took the time to explain this all to me! 💛

Now that I see what you meant, I am able to examine my deeper feelings and motives, and I realize that although I DO forgive them all, I actually am angry, and was getting maybe a little too much pleasure out of rejecting my sister with my response. That's NOT the REAL Me, and your reply helped me to see that I need to consciously CHOOSE to release that anger, and not allow it to control how I respond to her. Again, reading your sample response to her just clarified my understanding of where I actually want to be with this emotionally, and how I was NOT really coming from that place like I thought I was.

Again, I deeply appreciate your reply and how much it has helped me!!! YOU are an example of where I want to be and how I want to feel in my innermost heart!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> For you what does this mean? It means you recognize that you define the relationship... you always have.
> 
> You know how setting boundaries is not about changing or trying to change other's behaviors... so perhaps your frustrations are more about how they fail to respect the things you want them to respect, thus when they don't... you are hurt.
> 
> ...


THIS is absolutely BRILLIANT - do you and @Affaircare write or teach or counsel...? Because if you don't, YOU SHOULD BE!!! You each have a true GIFT for expressing how we can all be our pure selves and connect with others from a place of love, acceptance, and self-love...this is such a difficult and untraveled place for most of us, and SO difficult to understand HOW to get there at times...your patience and effort to explain is very special!!!

THANK YOU so much for taking the time to respond to me! This has helped me challenge my own inner understanding, and I very much appreciate it!!

Maybe you and @Affaircare could start a thread about this way of BEING...?? Please...!!!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> My friend, God is not so easily killed, just because it looks bad now does not mean it will always stay that way. I suggest you stop taking this upon yourself to fix and let him handle it. It's too big for you or anyone.
> 
> Honestly be a friend and comfort to the innocent in this story and wait for God's judgment to fall on those who would hurt them for their own gains.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU for reminding me that God is not so easily killed...you are absolutely right, and it's a relief to acknowledge this to myself!!

I would love to be able to help my nieces (she has 3 daughters), but only the oldest still speaks to me - my sister made sure to destroy my relationship with the other two, so they won't speak to me now, because she told them I was lying about her (I wasn't), and that I was trying to turn THEM against HER (I never would). Her oldest daughter has always been close to me, and was the one calling me every day when all the bad things were happening, crying about how horrible her mother was, and I had to help her through all that pain.
She is the ONLY one not dealing with substance abuse or self-harm, but she does have emotional abuse issues...they all do...from their mother's treatment of them...


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Spicy said:


> I am big about forgiveness, leaving yesterday’s crap there and moving on. I know this is not always possible, but many times it is if I can just let it go.
> 
> A couple questions you might ask yourself (no need to reply here unless you want too):
> 
> ...


Spicy, THANK YOU so much for both of your replies!!!

I know what you mean about forgiving and starting fresh, and I have done that over and over with other family issues, but this is just too big of a betrayal to ignore and walk away from...in fact, I wonder to myself that if I had established stronger boundaries with the smaller things earlier, maybe this never would have happened to me at all with them (not the cheating, but the mocking and rejection). If I tried to lay this down and turn away from it, it would be like corking a bottle of soda and shaking it - I would explode. I have NO trust in them, that they love me, that they won't do this again if they get angry with me (for being right), that they accept me for who I am (instead of a mirror for them)...there is NO chance of restoring a relationship with any of them unless they are sorry for how they hurt me...right now, they are NOT.

Thank you for your excellent questions!! I answered them in your quote in bold.

I am sad and sorry about what I lost, but wishing it wasn't gone and pretending it isn't gone won't work for me. I'm a terrible pretender and liar. I NEED truth...but more than that, I need love and care. There is none of that for me with my family. My sister is reaching out to me because she needs something - probably my advice and understanding and support (like I always gave her), which our other sisters don't give very well. I am unwilling to be her giver anymore. It's not good for me emotionally, and that's the most important thing to me now.

Again, I appreciate your responses, Spicy! I have read many of your posts on here, and you are one of my favorites!! I love your sweet, caring perspective...in a sea of harsh, unbending attitudes, that's invaluable!


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> SKM, there ARE, and I know them ALL...that was where the proof I had came from - trying for a few years to help her (at her request even). Really, what happened is the deepest hypocrisy...and the only way anything could be worse than what happened would have been if she had murdered my brother-in-law and children...and I'm not exaggerating...


Lisa, (to be blunt) what I am referring to is the fact that women who become sex addicts generally have some history of childhood sexual abuse that has happened to them. Given your story and the intensity in which the "happy facade" narrative must be followed even at the destruction of the entire family, I wonder if there was something like that in your sisters past. Something that some members of your family are aware of and the same degree of cover up was followed at the time, then in a sense the damage it's done to your sister would also have to be sweep under the rug avoid asking difficult questions. 

The other possibly that I would wonder about is if there was some affair and coverup in your parents history. I find that people who cover their spouses infidelity tend fall into the category of expecting everyone else to. I personally think that they feel if they have to live with their unhealthy choice of pain and denial then everyone else should. Again your sisters story may bring unwanted questions. 

Of course this is pure speculation but if it was me I would ask my sister point blank if she was sexual abused as a child. 

I suspect this is only a peek into some deeper dysfunction.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> THANK YOU for reminding me that God is not so easily killed...you are absolutely right, and it's a relief to acknowledge this to myself!!
> 
> I would love to be able to help my nieces (she has 3 daughters), but only the oldest still speaks to me - my sister made sure to destroy my relationship with the other two, so they won't speak to me now, because she told them I was lying about her (I wasn't), and that I was trying to turn THEM against HER (I never would). Her oldest daughter has always been close to me, and was the one calling me every day when all the bad things were happening, crying about how horrible her mother was, and I had to help her through all that pain.
> She is the ONLY one not dealing with substance abuse or self-harm, but she does have emotional abuse issues...they all do...from their mother's treatment of them...


I suggest you wait and be patient. I sent you that verse so you could feel some ease about the situation. Even with your nieces it's not your responsibility to make sure they have the same opinion of your sisters treachery. You have a right to say what is wrong is wrong, even to say this is bridge to far that I won't cross when it comes to my relationships, but it is not your responsibility to make sure everyone agrees with you or responds the way you do. Even to make people believe the truth once it is pointed out to them. That is a 0 some game. As a christian believe what the verse says, one day it will come out, it may not even be in this lifetime.

Pray that if you are in the wrong in any way when it comes to your nieces that God will show you and give you the opportunity you correct that. Make sure your motives are pure, and then wait for the opportunity. Since your sister made contact she is obviously dealing with the guilt of what she has done. Let that work in her. But also rest assured people who treat others poorly as you have described don't just do that with one person, it's a function of their character not their individual relationships which means her character will spill over to her relationships with her daughters and they will see her nature. At that point they will have a totally different and probably a much more generous take on your relationship with their Mother. Character is character, it's not something you can hide for long. It is like the life's blood of ever relationship you have.

I know it's hard but just continue to try to take the high road. It's not always easy to take a moral stand for justice, but that's not the point right? You do it because it's right, but doing it means having the courage to stand alone at times.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

You are most kind my friend.

It really is a very difficult and under-traveled place... I spent way too may years gathering resentments like collectibles admiring them as strengths instead of really seeing them as they were, foundations in sadness and negativity that built dark and ugly walls.

As those walls have been built, they also have to be removed in the same process... one stone at a time.

I left the war (Gulf War Veteran) fairly angry at the things we do to another over the desires had for power or greed and learning during that generation of the service I thought that being able to preemptively control how bad things happened was the answer only to learn it had quite the opposite effect and finding myself more bitter as time when on. At work at the time, it was respected leading in such a mission focus as my team was mostly prior service staff but without a measure of control not so much and it was only when I realized how destructive it was for my family did I break down after discovering the hurt I was creating for those claimed I loved, as actions did not match.

As a young 17 year old in the late 70's, I had joined the US Army Infantry and had cast empathy and compassion aside as I remolded, It literally was not found again until 25 years later when in the midst of some of my worst marital and family struggles I noticed a book on my counselor's self about suffering that I read while waiting for that day's session that seeded the peace I have today. 

I share that with you so you know we all have hard places to start from, there is no such thing as "too big, too long, too deep", the only way to trust the process is to trust. Walls work both ways, they also imprison as well as protect. I removed all my walls in a very hard way, while it was successful and right for me I am not sure I would recommend it as a practice because it really did not allow myself enough loving-kindness and patience and it confused others because they needed time to accept that actions and words matched.

I have a good relationship with my daughters today for the way I grew and the healthy boundaries I put into place at the at time yet some never accepted, thus the failure of my last marriage... but doors close and open for all kinds of wonderful reasons. 

The first, second, or tenth time they see your loving-kindness toward them they may not accept... that is not in your control nor should it be important, as you are not defining them, you are defining you. You are "practicing what you preach" as you give them snippets of the best you that you can be as you train your mind to live lovingly. You have to practice kindness to be kind... the work of a lifetime.

When there is negativity, there are also very kind ways to give a hard "no":

I'm sorry you feel that way. 
I see things differently.
I’m not okay with x (whatever x may be).

These are not statements of debate and there is no need to over-explain, keep your mind "true, kind, and necessary" and your actions after those words should mirror your statements above. These are letting people know "this is my boundary" and then walk away from that which attempts to hurt you. 

Say them with kindness, say them with love, and say them with understanding as you remove one more stone from your wall because without doing that last step, you will keep your own clarity from being hidden behind the deception of things you cannot change.

In time, the things you cannot change will not look the same.

Acceptance is seeded this way.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> THIS is absolutely BRILLIANT - do you and @Affaircare write or teach or counsel...? Because if you don't, YOU SHOULD BE!!! You each have a true GIFT for expressing how we can all be our pure selves and connect with others from a place of love, acceptance, and self-love...this is such a difficult and untraveled place for most of us, and SO difficult to understand HOW to get there at times...your patience and effort to explain is very special!!!
> 
> THANK YOU so much for taking the time to respond to me! This has helped me challenge my own inner understanding, and I very much appreciate it!!
> 
> Maybe you and @Affaircare could start a thread about this way of BEING...?? Please...!!!


They are the resident Zen couple here on TAM. I think they even met here.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> I suggest you wait and be patient. I sent you that verse so you could feel some ease about the situation, even with your nieces it's not your responsibility to make sure they have the same opinion of your sisters treachery. You have a right to say what is wrong is wrong, even to say this is bridge to far that I won't cross when it comes to my relationships, but it is not your responsibility to make sure everyone agrees with you or responds the way you do. Or to make people believe the truth once it is pointed out to them. As a christian believe what the verse says, one day it will come out, it may not even be in this lifetime.
> 
> Pray that if you are in the wrong in any way when it comes to your nieces that God will show you and give you the opportunity you correct that. Make sure your motives are pure, and then wait for the opportunity. Since your sister made contact she is obviously dealing with the guilt of what she has done. Let that work in her. But also rest assured people who treat others poorly as you have described don't just do that with one person, it's a function of their character not their individual relationships which means her character will spill over to her relationships with her daughters and they will see her nature. At that point they will have a totally different much more favored take on your relationship with their Mother. Character is character, it's not something you can hide for long. It is like the life's blood of ever relationship you have.
> 
> I know it's hard but just continue to try to take the high road. It's not always easy to take a moral stand for justice, but that's not the point right? You do it because it's right, but doing it means having the courage to stand alone at times.


THANK YOU!! You DID ease my worries with that verse, so it worked beautifully!  

I actually don't care what any of them think of their mother's actions - I never cared about that, I only wanted to continue the relationship that we already had together (me and her girls), but she poisoned it by making it all about HER. I had NO interest in discussing her actions with them - that was all HER. And that was also a consequence of standing by my principles, I understood that (and still do), and I have told them (through their oldest sister), that I am here for them whenever they want or need me, just like always, and I have NO problem with them siding with their mother (of course they would). I just want them to be ok - it hurts me to know they are struggling with such pain...THAT is where I have the hardest time "forgiving" my sister and family, and letting anger flow out of my heart - when I see the pain the children are in over it, and the life-altering repercussions of choices they had no say over...UGH!!! THAT is my biggest struggle...!!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> They are the resident Zen couple here on TAM. I think they even met here.


I REALLY want them to start a thread...!!!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Lisa, (to be blunt) what I am referring to is the fact that women who become sex addicts generally have some history of childhood sexual abuse that has happened to them. Given your story and the intensity in which the "happy facade" narrative must be followed even at the destruction of the entire family, I wonder if there was something like that in your sisters past. Something that some members of your family are aware of and the same degree of cover up was followed at the time, then in a sense the damage it's done to your sister would also have to be sweep under the rug avoid asking difficult questions.
> 
> The other possibly that I would wonder about is if there was some affair and coverup in your parents history. I find that people who cover their spouses infidelity tend fall into the category of expecting everyone else to. I personally think that they feel if they have to live with their unhealthy choice of pain and denial then everyone else should. Again your sisters story may bring unwanted questions.
> 
> ...


Ah...now I see what you meant...!

Actually, I really don't think so. We explored alot of that in the years before the blowout, while working on her compulsive sexual behavior and her deep unhappiness. She is just utterly self-seeking and self-centered...she always has been. EVERYTHING is about HER and HER feelings...and she cannot cope with not getting something she wants - she becomes obsessive.
I know what the root of it is, but to avoid polluting this thread with more pointless details, I'll just say, our mother is also emotionally selfish and unavailable, and that has hurt us all in different ways...and for this sister, sexual compulsion was her way. The reason our family is a bunch of rug-sweepers is because of my emotionally selfish, weak mother would have meltdowns if confronted with anything she didn't like. Of course, that's the opposite of how I function (and feel safe), so I've spent my life challenging her and flipping the rug back to reveal the crap underneath...this time, it came back and bit me, HARD.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> You are most kind my friend.
> 
> It really is a very difficult and under-traveled place... I spent way too may years gathering resentments like collectibles admiring them as strengths instead of really seeing them as they were, foundations in sadness and negativity that built dark and ugly walls.
> 
> ...


Oh, what an amazing journey you've been on to get where you are!!! You are right, you are at a place that is almost the complete opposite of where you started, and I almost cannot fathom that you could have been the person you started as!! 
If I may ask, what was the name of the book that started it all for you...?
And I also wanted to know what you thought of Mindful Self-Compassion...it's a practice that I am considering at the moment to help with some personal issues that I can't seem to escape...but the idea of giving MYSELF the same compassion that I would to a suffering friend is somehow novel, isn't it...? As if, we never think to treat ourselves compassionately...why not...don't we deserve it too...??

THANK YOU for sharing your story like you did...you are an inspiration to me, and I'm sure, many others!!!

PLEASE consider your own thread with @Affaircare...


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

The book was by Thich Nhat Hanh and the way of observing feelings... I have read so many of his works so let me look up the title and I will share.

Mindful self-compassion is founded in loving yourself more, it is the path of clarity when you recognize how hard it is to willingly face an uncomfortable feeling while becoming friendly with the fear that holds you back.

It is easy to forget that our unpleasant feelings and ourselves are the same person and have to be recognized as such so we can transfer it to a more healthy place.

We will always have these unhappy thoughts, we are human... what we have is choice as to what we do with them.

As difficult times come, I always remind myself that in my feeling and emotions, I have the ability to understand and choose wisely if I listen with love and patience.

That love and patience is housed in me first, so much easier to share with others that way.

ps... I will ask AC her thoughts on a thread. 

Namaste

Edited... the book was Transformation and Healing: Sutra on the Four Establishments of Mindfulness


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> THANK YOU!! You DID ease my worries with that verse, so it worked beautifully!
> 
> I actually don't care what any of them think of their mother's actions - I never cared about that, I only wanted to continue the relationship that we already had together (me and her girls), but she poisoned it by making it all about HER. I had NO interest in discussing her actions with them - that was all HER. And that was also a consequence of standing by my principles, I understood that (and still do), and I have told them (through their oldest sister), that I am here for them whenever they want or need me, just like always, and I have NO problem with them siding with their mother (of course they would). I just want them to be ok - it hurts me to know they are struggling with such pain...THAT is where I have the hardest time "forgiving" my sister and family, and letting anger flow out of my heart - when I see the pain the children are in over it, and the life-altering repercussions of choices they had no say over...UGH!!! THAT is my biggest struggle...!!


So I am not a deeply religious guy in the sense that I am sure most bible thumpers would not think I was much of a Christian, it's OK I don't think most of them are much Christians either. I don't regularly go to Church anymore, way to many bad experiences. You would think I should be called Jacob because God and I have been in a massive struggle for a few years. (Whose to say my name isn't by the way.) I also rarely post religiously on this site, but in this case I very much understand your heart. The anger you feel at the injustice of it all, and how the innocent is trampled on by those who could care less about them. I get it so I figured I would post this as someone who understand but is looking at it from the outside. 

OK so you miss your nieces and it's hard to see them suffer. Makes sense. This is a normal reaction. That is a very honorable way to react. 

Thing is you need to try to get rid of the anger towards you sister, honestly it's not your place to forgive her for how she treated them. That is between her and them. Sure you can be hurt sympathetically for them. I get it, you want to rail against the injustice of it all but you have no power or place to correct it, that is what you have to let go. Put that in Gods hands ask him to bring a true justice to the situation as only he knows how, because he knows everyones heart. Find peace in that, find peace in finally saying this is bigger then me so I am putting this in your hands.

Honestly I say this as someone who struggles with my faith at times (I think it's kind of rich that I am posting this, read some of my posts) but part of the reason why people like you and me ARE Christians is because at least for me, I want and need to believe that there will be justice. If we don't really believe that then what is the point anyway? Why would you follow a God who is unjust?

In the same respect I want to believe in a God who gives grace and mercy. Because if there isn't that then he is a God like the one they believe in in Afghanistan who demands peoples hands are chopped off in the public square. I am a Christian because in my studies and in my life I have found a God who is very tough on sin until the point when the sinner has a true heart of repentance and then he heals the brokenhearted and says "hey it's going to be alright." Like a good parent would. I want to believe he is that way and if I truly believe he is that way then how can I act any different. That is my take anyway.

So at least in my mind you need to let that go. YOU HAVE TO. It is not your place nor really your right. Let the anger over the injustice with your sister go. It will only get better if you do.

Finally never ever resent standing up and suffering for what is right. There is no greater honor then we can have then to suffer for what is true and just, especially when there is innocent involved. This is not a burden but a privilege. This is when we are closest to God. This is part of our purpose and our faith if only Christians would embrace that.

Anyway, maybe I am writing this more for myself then even you. As far as I can tell from what you have written you are a very good aunt, a good sister and daughter, one day they will know that. But even if they don't God knows.

Find peace.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> ...Maybe you and @Affaircare could start a thread about this way of BEING...?? Please...!!!


As you wish: ...About this way of BEING


----------

