# My friend and wife



## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi,
I'm a new member and hoping to get some advice. We have been married for 7 years now. We were outside the UK before and our marriage was arranged. Intially, we stayed with my parents, and with tradition, it was quite difficult for my wife, even though she is brought up in a very culturally mild manner. During those times, since we were under our parents' shadows, we did not go out much, and my wife stuck to me like glue. we were close and we both went out for a weekly dinner, a few drives, things that newly weds would do.

after coming to the uk, away from family, my wife felt really free. we have a lot of friends. but my main concern is that we have one couple who she is very close with (friend male -FM, friend female -FF, and their 2 year old son -B. I don't mind her communicating with FF, but wife seems to communicate via text and phone quite a bit with FM. This irritates me, moreso, because she communicates with him more than with me. when we are at home, i just like her presence. i tell her we'll go out, but she does not like going out, mainly because she feels that others will tease her for going out with me, her husband; i know this sounds strange, but that's true.

today, she went in the morning and has still not come back. she is in their house, and now, i feel my friendship with this couple has turned from closeness to real hatred and coldness. 

i believe as friends, you need to maintain some distance so that when we meet up, we really socialise. but my wife likes to meet with them everyday, and talk on the phone whilst at home every minute of the day. if we are doing something private, she feels its bad manners not to answer either FM or FF's phone calls.

I don't know how to make this situation better.

At this stage, i know this is a lot to write, so i hope i can get some advice and questions so that i can assess whether i am just being paranoid and stupid about the whole thing.

I'm kinda of a romantic, and like to just spend time with my wife, even doing nothing sometimes, but not too sure if she feels the same. she says she loves me, but is scared as hell to show it publicly or with friends. this really makes me feel inadequate, incomplete and foolish at times.

Please help anyone.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

She is putting her relationship with your/her friends first. Take her somewhere and talk deeply with her. Let her know how lonely you feel that she is sharing so much of herself with them, and not enough with you. Suggest ways that the two of you can become closer and ask her to please look at developing and strengthening your marriage now over other relationships, how it should be.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

You're not being paranoid. there is definitely something going on. I think you need to talk to her about re-commiting to your marriage. let her know how her behavior is affecting you, tell her what you'd like to have happen, and ask her what she is willing to commit to. be open to the idea that she might need something that you havent been giving her. ask her about that. she does need to stop being around them without you, though. but i dont think you should tell her she cant see FM or FF anymore because then you come off as controlling and she'll rebel against you. Tell her what you need from her, ask her what she can commit to, and then figure out what you want to do if she cant give you what you need.


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Thanks to the two of you for some feedback.
Today after church, i took her to the lake. the moment the car started going in a direction away from home, she started getting agitated and i was on the verge of going home, when she said " fine, take me there" in a very angry manner. she said if this is how you are, fine....and was very angry and shouting.
we went to the lake, sat for a while, she calmed down. but the way in which we got there, was not the best i felt to be able to tell her. she then started feeling itchy and uncomfortable in the outdoors, we stayed, watched a few ducks, she did feel better, and her tone calmed down, but she said let's go home. we stayed all of 8 minutes.
also, just after we left church, FF sent a message saying to "come home". she then was starting to feel anxious as to what to tell FF. she swore to me not to tell FF that we went to the lake, cause that starts fights between FF and FM, as FM does not do these sort of things for FF, she claims.

so we got home, and told FF we left our mobiles at home. my wife and her are now talking. 

the summary is, that my wife is very scared to let FF or any of our friends know that i took her to the lake or seem to be doing some romantic things. she sometimes gives me the perception that our marriage is a sham, and that we have secretly eloped.

wife claims that when we are at home, we are together, so why am i so worried?

what do you think?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Could be your wife is living two different lives. The one you know about and the other you don’t. Sounds as though she has two “homes” from FF message saying to “come home”. It also sounds as though she has told people her marriage is more or less over and hence her reason not to be seen with you.

I think you have a very complicated person on your hands and a person who is deceiving you and lying to you. This has nothing to do with who you are or what you have done. It is all to do with her, her values and beliefs and how her mind works.

What to do? Tough one especially as you love her. Maybe tell her to make a choice between you and the two friends. Tell her she is not welcome in your home until she has made that choice. Maybe when she’s out pack her bags for her so they’re ready when she gets in and tell her then.

Bob


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Does her FF knows that your wife is text messaging, or calling her husband, and how she feels about that?


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi Deb.
FF does not mind her sending text messages or talking to her. 

The funny thing is and tell me what you think. They all caught the chicken pox once. from their child first. my work takes me away for 5 days in a week.

so they all came here to heal up, also they were in the middle of moving houses. the sleeping plan: FM in the same bed as my wife. FF and her kid on one bed. and me on the sofa. the reason my wife did not want to sleep with me was that we did not want to take a chance still even though i have had chicken pox before.

she likes her bed as there is a fan. he also wanted the fan. so they slept on the same bed. now everyone in our group knows this. but i felt really bad and weird about the whole thing. am i wrong to feel this way. 

so in conclusion, i don't think FF has any probs with that sort of thing. i would have preferred my wife to sleep alone at least while she was ill.

AFAH, i know that she loves me. but i have tried mentioning this councillor idea, but she won't have it. she says we don't need it and that i'm overreacting. 

look i have no probs with FF and FM, i think we are good friends, but its come to a stage where she is closer to them than i am. so i can't talk with them about it. 

i know i want to talk about this to someone in person, but don't know if this is right.

again today, i had a talk saying let's go out next weekend. and she says? why? you just want to show everyone right? i spend time with you at home, is that not enough? is this reply satisfactory? so we kinda agreed we will go visit her cousin's place which is about 2 hours away. a good drive at least.

will she ever tell me: Love, let's go do this together, just the two of us. Its that part "just the two of us", which I yearn for her to say, but doubt whether she ever will......


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

john_sean77 said:


> FM in the same bed as my wife.


You're joking right?

The biggest problem you have is that you are believing what your wife tells you.

Bob


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

No AFEH. not joking. but what about FM. she knows the arrangement.

i must tell you all one thing: we have been trying to have a kid for the last few years. Initially, she wanted to have a kid quick after marriage, and i said we will have later. but after coming here, i want to have a kid, but she always comes up with excuses. we have found that we are not able to have a kid now, and will need ivf. she is very fond of FF and FM's kid, and quite a few times she says that she is just going to see the kid mainly.

the situation is that she is very honest about wanting to go there more times than not to see the kid and FF. If FM is there at that time, well, he's there.

but how can FF stand this situation? how come she is so tolerant of this situation?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

john_sean77 said:


> but how can FF stand this situation? how come she is so tolerant of this situation?


The only way you'll get an answer to that question is by asking her and even then you may well not get the truth.

They say the quality of our life is dependent of the quality of the questions we ask. Why on earth do you want to know what FFs motivations are?

Surely the question to ask of yourself is why are you tolerating these things. A man sleeping in your bed in your home with your wife!

Seems like you have absolutely no personal boundaries and because of that you are being way too patient and tolerant. Reckon you've some waking up to do. First thing to wake up to is personal boundaries. These are things to protect yourself from further abuse. You just tell your wife behaviour you will no longer tolerate, it really is as simple as that.

It will though more than likely be the precursor to massive change in your life and you wont have a clue what it will be.

But if you want your life to continue as it is do not construct your personal boundaries.

Bob


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

I agree that the boundaries in this situation are absolutely insane. And that you have been lied to and deceived for so long, as long with being too trusting a person, that you don't even trust your own gut feeling. Even your post is asking whether you are being reasonable in feeling like the situation is not right, in feeling like you should get more from your wife. You doubt yourself. My best advice to you is to seek a good counselor right away. (sidenote: Not a sit-on-the-couch-for-ten-years one, a cognitive behavioral one that will help you with truly making changes immediately.)

You are 100% correct that this situation is not right. You are 100% correct in feeling that your wife should not treat you like you are some kind of secret, should not be at these people's home all the time and should show you that she loves and cares for you. And, my goodness man, no man should be sleeping in the bed with her EVER. I don't care what the circumstance!!!! That is INSANE. You hear me? Absolutely disturbingly NOT a normal thing to have happen. He should've slept on the floor or he should've slept with his child and let his wife share the bed with yours, etc. So many other ways to have worked that out.

In any case, I suspect that your wife is emotionally abusive and manipulative. She also having an affair with FM or FF or both or someone else altogether. Whether it's emotional or sexual or both, who knows and it doesn't matter because she's so disconnected to you she won't even acknowledge to people that she spent 8 minutes sitting with you by the lake. Wow!!!

Please find a counselor. You must 1) build your sense of self-worth, 2) get some validation that your thoughts and feelings and wants count for something, 3) trust your gut and your assessments, 4) get strong enough to kick her ass to the curve.

DO NOT ... again, DO NOT get her pregnant. You don't want to put a child in the middle of this kind of situation. "She's visiting the child" my ass!!! If that'd been the case, she would've shared the bed with the child when they had the pox and let the other couple share the bed. And, in that case, she wouldn't be putting up barriers to proceeding with making a child of your own with you. 

Once you see this situation for what it is, you will leave her. Until then, no babies and stay strong and believe that what you think is going on (and so much more) is going on. Dig deep.


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## savemymarriagehelp (Aug 22, 2010)

You are making much of a mere close relationship. Trust in marriage is paramount. Give her space and communicate your concerns. I think that should sort out things.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

savemymarriagehelp said:


> You are making much of a mere close relationship. Trust in marriage is paramount. Give her space and communicate your concerns. I think that should sort out things.


Are you John's wife?


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

savemymarriagehelp said:


> You are making much of a mere close relationship. Trust in marriage is paramount. Give her space and communicate your concerns. I think that should sort out things.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: you gotta be kidding, this whole situation smells like shiite! First of all the FF would never be comfortable with your wife sleeping with her H. Second of all the fact your W only wants to sneak around with you says something is really wrong, the fact that she has more connection and contact with both of them should send up major red flags. 

It almost sounds like she is having a 3 way affair with these people. 

I know if I was you I would tell her you are uncomfortable with this arrangement and she needs to decide between this friendship and you. I would also end all friendship with these people. True friends do not cause maritial problems and if they do it is time for them to go IMO.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Brewster 59 said:


> It almost sounds like she is having a 3 way affair with these people.


That went through my mind. Certainly sounds like she's truly addicted to something, Sex, drugs or both are the only things I can see that would hold the three together so strongly while at the same time exclude her husband "John".

Bob


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

wow. thanks all for your feedback. 
Breeze: I think I agree with you somewhat. I think its just "weird behaviour" or sick behaviour as you say. I don't think she is into drugs or sex at all.
In fact, sex is one thing she finds uncomfortable and a bit painful at times; she used to have very painful periods and still has it sometimes, quite excruciating pain.
With regard to asking other friends, this sort of thing is a big taboo thing and our people would start leaking this out and making a big issue of it.
I think a councillor would be a good option. but i've mentioned this to her once or twice and she blew up.
the problem is her greatest friends now, FF and FM are always seen to be having fights with each other and don't go out together for anything. I think this sort of thing has really rubbed onto her and that's why she shows that towards me. 
I really wish we both had an impartial friend. her family would agree with me, i know, but she would be really hurt if i went to her sister and family about this.

when she cries, and she really does, my heart just melts. truly does. i know she loves me. she cooks for me. she really cares for me. but i just wish we could be a normal couple who can SHOW love towards each other, even when alone, in more intimate ways rather than being like a brother-sister relationship, which is what i feel we are now.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You have an arranged marriage. While you were with your family from your point of view your marriage was good. Can you say which country that was in?

Then you moved back to the UK and now you are unhappy with your marriage. Your wife has changed. Have you thought she may just be “contractually married” to you? That she is performing her duties as a wife in accordance with her interpretation of your marriage contract?

Maybe she’s found “freedom” and is interpreting and expressing that freedom in the way that satisfies her needs.

What can you do about it?

Bob


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Previously, we were in New Zealand. We are originally Indians. My family and I have lived out of India most our lives, so we are quite extrovert. my wife has been in india all her life. when we started in NZ, she was the introvert, and only looked to me for comfort and like a solace. Once we got to the uk, away from family, etc...she did find freedom.
but in the first 2 years in the UK, we did not have many friends, just hi/bye occassional friends; during those times, we went for drives, fruit picking, lot of good things. then after we met FF and FM, things changed. she grew so fond of them, and now she is really fond of them, crazily fond of them i think. 
i mean if she cannot be located, you could say the next of kin is them. 

i do believe that the freedom she has had is definitely a factor. however, in the first 2 years in the UK, i think we had a good time. we didn't have any best friends, but we had friends. now she has a best friend, and she still keeps saying that i am their best friend. but honestly, i can't see eye to eye with them now. i mean FF is very kind, she makes us food sometimes, my wife makes food for them, etc. etc...

frankly, i don't care as long as my wife makes me food and looks after me. they have helped her/us whenever she is ill, etc...look, they have helped a lot, but i just think the situation is too sticky.
i don't want to lose their friendship, i just want my place to be a bit more pronounced in my wife's eyes. is that a fair ask?

Breeze, we don't go out at all, except if the destination is to a friend's place or family. there is nowhere we go together, just the two of us, where the end destination is only the two of us. that would never happen, she would grow a fit and start pointing negative things.

i feel an independant councillor, is the first step.

but all of you are not hearing her story. her side of things. and the only way this can be brought out is if she agrees to come and see a councillor. 

what do you all think?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It’s funny but you’re still not saying what your faith is. India? Mainly Hindu but a lot of Muslims? Not that it really matters.

What I think matters more is how the two of you are adjusting to the beliefs etc. of the perhaps western world? England, if that’s indeed where you live is mainly Protestant Christian. There’s only around 2% that actually go to church on a regular basis, but the fundamental beliefs are still somewhat there but as far as I see it’s rapidly dying out.

So in a way I reckon you’re trying to figure out what an Englishman would and wouldn’t tolerate from his wife. Now I’m only one of some 50 million or so Englishmen but I can tell you from my point of view you are tolerating way too much. Yes you have empathy and compassion, patience and tolerance and they are indeed wonderful qualities in a person.

But as I see it you have no “rules” to live by. Are your rules Hindu or Muslim, Christian, Catholic or Protestant? Must be very confusing for you.

Why not take a look inside of yourself? Because indeed that’s where happiness comes from. Sit down and right down what makes you happy and what makes you sad in your marriage. Create rules for your own marriage and live by those rules.

Bob

PS: It's called self determination. The English are good at that.


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi Bob,
we are both Roman Catholic Christians. 
Marriage is a Sacrament for us, and I keep guided by what's said: What God has united, man must not break.

My first priority is to make full attempt to try and rescue this marriage.
Secondly, to also write down all my fancies and things i like to do.


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## Bluemoon7 (Jan 27, 2010)

Clearly these friends are way too involved in your life. Your wife not wanting to tell FF that you two went to the lake is insane! Most women would appreciate their husband wanting to do such things with them. But your wife fought with you over it, then lied to her friend about her whereabouts. Not normal.

Letting your wife sleep in the same bed with another man? Craziness. 

If your wife won't go to counseling, go on your own. You need some help with boundaries. Continue trying to spend time with your wife, without the other couple. Go to dinner, pick fruit, whatever you like. That's good for a healthy couple. 

IMO, both of you are a little uncertain about how to be a couple in this newish country, and you're (mostly your wife) looking at your friends for guidance. But their marriage seems to be pretty troubled and should not be your example.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

I believe what you want and need from your wife is very reasonable. Yes, please pursue counseling with her in order to work through this. Test three or four counselors out first so you can better pick which one you both feel the most comfortable with.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

The Roman Catholic Church allows for annulment of the marriage.

Look into it.

BTW, even if you can't get a divorce recognized by the church, you still can pursue a civil divorce and then be apart from her legally. Just can't remarry in the church.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

john_sean77 said:


> Hi Bob,
> we are both Roman Catholic Christians.
> Marriage is a Sacrament for us.


Are you certain it is for your wife?

It's easy to think our partner lives by the same rules, values and beliefs that we do but I doubt that is ever the case. Even if she is then her interpretation of the rules could be very different to yours and interpreted very much to her advantage, like we all do in one way or another.

Your wife has created a world she's very comfortable with and is addicted to. You are in many ways "living in her world" and there's lots you don't like about it. I wish you well on your journey to try and fix your marriage. You'll learn a lot about your faith, your wife's faith and life along the way.

I would though at this point in time consider failure an option. Just to take a look and see what it feels like.

Bob


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## writing2010 (Aug 5, 2010)

Counseling is a good first step. I know you don't want to, but you might have to get her family involved if she is reluctant to go to counseling with you. She is behaving in an inappropriate manner and somehow has allowed herself to rationalize this.

There might be something she is getting from her relationship with FF and FM, that she is not getting from you; however, this is something that should be worked on within the marriage and not involving another couple. 

I hope you can convince her to seek counseling with you without involving her family to prevent any embarrassment to her, but you know, sometimes embarrassment is good! It's certainly a good motivator to get your act together.


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

i have finally and with great difficulty arranged the first counselling session of my life. for this saturday. will keep you posted. through the course of the week, i will slowly hint to my wife that i'm stressed and may go to see a councillor. she'll probably think i'm joking till the minute i actually go. this way, i do hope that she will join me.

I'm as usual away from home for the week. so FF has again told her to come home as she has cooked something. so my wife is going there today evening for a while. FM and kid will be there also. 

the saga continues....


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

Been there done that. In fact in New Zealand, we used to make the Thursday night just a meal for the two of us.
I told her let's do that, 1 night/day a week, just the two of us. In fact, when I start using the words "just the two of us", i can see her mood change immediately. 

With my work situation, I'm away 5 days of the week. So I've told her that I don't care if she is with them (i said them not her) during the week. She only works 4 days a week, so always has 1 day of the week off. And then Saturday or Sunday, we could do something ALONE. But she finds that too hard. I told her, forget the 2 days in the weekend, just 1 day? But no, she says we are together when we are at home. we can watch a movie together at home. For one, her choice of movies is not fully my taste. but I’m willing to watch a movie of her choice if she agrees to watch a movie of my choice. We used to be able to watch horror movies together, it was our only common thing, but that has faded now as well.

When we went to the lake last weekend for all of 15 minutes, i tried to initiate so much conversation but she did not talk too much. Generally when she is with FM (and FF), I can just hear the continuous motoring of 2-way conversation. Now, when I’m with FF or FM, my conversation skills are still quite bad. So my mannerisms are still the same, quite dull, and i know that. but when i see her oral skills going for a six when she is with them, and she being proactive in conversation, that makes me feel: why can't we have a decent conversation.

I now couples do not need to have many things in common to make things work, but you need to have at least a few things right? but she never is interested in taking that journey of discovery with me. perhaps cause she is too scared to admit that we don’t have anything in common anymore.

When i get back on a friday, i don't mind moving heavens to go with my wife for a drive alone or dinner, but FF an FM will say, come home, or they will come home , etc. and when i say, i don’t feel good, she gets upset.

The point is, I don’t feel that in the 2 days that we are together, that we are getting enough alone time. If we are alone, she is too scared to tell FM that we are doing our own thing, it’s like a sin, as she says that FM is very angry and frustrated herself that FM does not do things alone with her. So top please FM, she does not like doing things alone with me. Hope you understand what i'm trying to say?

She seems to be scared of what FM would think. for that matter, what any of our friends would say. In our culture, it is common that most husbands treat their wives wit distaste in public, and that i feel is rubbing into her.


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

I have got a councillor appt. for saturday finally.
and today, on a separate note, i just heard my wife was admitted in hospital with sudden abdominal pain. she is waiting to see the main surgeons after going through seeing a consultant. FF and another friend came initially. Now FF has gone home to look after kid, leaving my wife with FM. When I called my wife's mobile, he picked up the phone and he is with her now. He then went on to say that he has asked if he will ask the hospital if he can stay with her at the hospital today.
i'm getting so angry with all this now. i can't be there i know, but why did FM not offer to stay with her if that was ever granted, which I don't think it will anyway? what's he going to say? that he's my wife's husband?
i'm so frustrated with FM....and FF's weird attitude..


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

breeze: quick update. he is not in the hospital anymore. she is alone now. talked to her and she is quite groggy.
FM has fights with FF publicly, but she actually cares for him a lot. but never fully shows it. so i guess its just weird. i'm just wondering when councilling starts if its actually FF and Fm who may have to come for the counselling ahead of my wife.


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## john_sean77 (Aug 21, 2010)

hi all. just to advise that i went to see the councillor. the first time in my life that i've seen a councillor. it was really hard to start with, but then it seemed to flow alright. her eyes bulged when i said the part about FM in the same bed as my wife
so i guess all of you are right, i must have had my screws loose to let that go ahead without getting angry or blowing up.

anyway, she has said that she wants to see my wife next time. today i'm back at work away from home. FM is at my house doing some work on laptop as they don't have access at home, FF and kid have gone to a friend's place; my wife is having a shower. Thus, FM and my wife are alone at home. I'm getting so irritated with this.

I've asked my wife to go for the councillor and she has agreed. I think she's not even aware that this popping in/out by FM to my place alone with my wife is causing severe stress for me.

anways, next meeting with councillor as soon as it can be arranged. i hope its soon.


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