# Too nice



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Ladies, can your SO be too nice? Can it reach a point where you loose respect for him as a man?.....

I am not talking about a wimp...or girly man.....I have done some pretty rough things in front of her, including punching an attempted rapist into the ground...

I am talking about granting her every wish, treating her family very well, always letting her decide where to eat, etc...

As an aside, she still says I have always been a very good lover...

Just no respect....


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Yes, there is such a thing. I like a decisive, take charge man who leads. It makes me feel protected and safe. There is nothing worse when i have to take the reigns all day, every day. It makes me feel masculine and i don't like it. 

Of course, that doesnt mean to disregard my feelings or choices, but the thought of my partner always going where I want to eat, to use your example, would be a huge turn off to me. Don't bow to my every whim, have your own expectations and desires. 

I would expect you to treat those loved ones in my life with respect, just as I would with yours. 

Don't put me on a pedestal. I will indeed lose respect for you and want you to have your own spine. Listen, I fully admit it's a very tricky dance. I'm glad I'm not a man with regard to this issue.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

My SO is very nice to me and always does nice things for me. I very much appreciate him for being such a great guy who treats me well, and respect him more for it. I don't see it as wimpy or whatever - I see it as caring and loving and we both should be that to each other or what's the point of being together.

We both treat each other's family's well. I'm not sure why we wouldn't - they're nice people and they are family.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> The nicer my husband treats me, the nicer I am to him. All the examples you provided Woodchuck, I adore. Add to the list "buys a lot of chocolate and shoes," and you have my perfect guy.
> 
> I, however, have a keen covert contract sniffer. Can't stand them and if the reason you are being nice is because you expect a treat, I do not reciprocate.


No chocolate or shoes, but a new Lincoln...Her attitude...Just spending money on her is too easy....She doesn't say it...But I can tell, so no reason to expect anything special...


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Treating her family well is always a must and I think very respectable. Considering where she wants to eat also garners respect. But there are times when you have to do the opposite. If one of her family members is dangerous or belittles your wife then you will gain respect by standing up for your wife appropriately. If she tells you she really has no idea where she wants to eat or you really won't enjoy the place she wants to go then you have to be decisive and lead the way. 

Fulfilling her every wish sounds like its not going to give her any respect for you. It depends what those wishes are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bridge (Dec 27, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> I have done some pretty rough things in front of her, including punching an attempted rapist into the ground...


If you didn't punch him, she would have been raped? WHAT


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Bridge said:


> If you didn't punch him, she would have been raped? WHAT


My wife and I were guests at a home. Our host got a very underage girl very drunk, and I caught him dragging her upstairs to his bedroom....I objected, he became violent, and as I have said elsewhere...I taught him it takes 2 coats of paint to cover blood spatter on a ceiling....>


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## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

Yes you can be too nice. If you are feeling unappreciated or that you don't get to do things you want because the other person complains, and you are not happy about it, then that is being too nice. If it makes you happy then you still run the risk of losing respect but not always. Some people want someone who bends to their will easily. 

I appreciate that my nice guy hubby shares his opinions with me whether I like it or not, because it shows he's being open & trusts me. Now if only he wasn't too nice with everyone else who knows he doesn't like confrontation & uses it to their advantage. Being a peacemaker myself I get that it's not worth it sometimes, but it does make me lose some respect for him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> My wife and I were guests at a home. Our host got a very underage girl very drunk, and I caught him dragging her upstairs to his bedroom....I objected, he became violent, and as I have said elsewhere...I taught him it takes 2 coats of paint to cover blood spatter on a ceiling....>


So did you call the police on this guy? 

Have you seen much of him since that day?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So did you call the police on this guy?
> 
> Have you seen much of him since that day?


No I did not call the police, as some family members showed up and took the girl home. I have seen him a few times since...He still has scars......He mentioned it 10-12 years later, said he thought he could take me.....His parting words...I thought you'd quit....And laughed...


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## Coachme (Sep 9, 2015)

It sounds like you’re an amazing man, very thoughtful, considerate and accommodating. It is important for a couple to have a balance of feminine and masculine energies and it sounds like you are a naturally masculine man. However, this can shift in a relationship over time and impact on respect. Examples of masculine energy are to be protective (not physical), to take charge and to make decisions. I can only guess, as I don’t have much information on your situation, but it sounds like your partner may be requesting that you take charge, take control and make decisions more often, while at the same time continue doing the things you have mentioned.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

intheory said:


> "Too nice" would be hard to do; for me. I would respect him more and more.
> 
> No human being should be responsible for "granting every wish" of another human being. The whole premise is flawed. It's sick.
> 
> ...


Oh, we were never CLOSE, and I greatly enjoyed loosening up his features......

I just remembered why, while I was boxing, he brought some kid over to the house, and asked If I would like to go a round or two bare knuckles....He was taller than me, but slow. I put my head under his chin, and hit him in the body...A lot....He quit in round one....Later found out he had done pretty well in golden gloves...SETUP?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> No chocolate or shoes, but a new Lincoln...Her attitude...Just spending money on her is too easy....She doesn't say it...But I can tell, so no reason to expect anything special...


You're clearly resentful that she didn't react as you'd hoped when you bought her the car. You've mentioned your dissatisfaction with her reaction to it, on this and a few other threads. 

So, what were you expecting to get from her in exchange for that Lincoln? Is she aware of what you feel she owes you for it? 

Honestly, this situation sounds like a prime example of a covert contract.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Woodchuck said:


> Ladies, can your SO be too nice? Can it reach a point where you loose respect for him as a man?.....
> 
> I am not talking about a wimp...or girly man.....I have done some pretty rough things in front of her, including punching an attempted rapist into the ground...
> 
> ...


When did the disrespect start ...and in what forms does she show it?

Having read many of your posts, many threads lately ....sometimes you come off very strongly opposed to others opinions....it causes some backlash on the threads...maybe your online persona is different, who is to say.. but "too nice" doesn't come to mind.... are you sure you are being "TOO NICE"? (I do not mean this in a bad way, please don't misunderstand.. I see you kinda "Alpha.... not a push over -is all)..

NICE has gotten a very BAD rap... so I learned quickly after coming to this forum.. 

I married a naturally easy tempered giving man (to those he is close to anyway)...I much appreciate his attitude and how much he shows he cares... he always lets me decide where to eat...always puts his kids first, he lives for his family....this seems to bring him happiness.. 

He is so self sacrificial -that I have even had arguments with him to be more selfish at times.. in a bantering funny sort of way-.... He is who he is though... and I do respect him a great deal.. 

Mention NICE on TAM.. you will get a link to this book :  No More Mr. Nice Guy! Robert A. Glover: Books

Here is a list of NICE GUY Characteristics - Most guys have a few of these, but the headed for doormat status "NICE guys"- posses these in abundance . The book has more detail to each little item of coarse.



> Nice Guys are Givers
> 
> Nice Guys fix & Caretake
> 
> ...


Not all sound bad -but there CAN be problems with each one of those ..*it's the motivation behind the doing that's the issue.*.. What is happening is -- These men have been conditioned to believe that if they are "NICE" they will be loved, get their needs met and have a smooth life. 

Here is the "not-so nice" traits of Nice Guys ...



> Nice guys can be Dishonest, secretive, compartmentalized, manipulative, controlling, they give to get, passive aggressive, some are full of rage, additive, have difficulty setting boundaries, frequently isolated, often attracted to people & situations that need fixing, frequently have problems in intimate relationships, have issues with sexuality, usually only relatively successful .


Of course those are not true for every Nice guy, my husband fit 4 of those plus a few we considered halfs in his case. 

IF one is being TOO NICE to win Love, sex, to live a smooth life.. & it's not working... 

This book is about being True to yourself while you love "healthy" to satisfy you both.... no camouflage...which often wins a woman's *RESPECT* ...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Rowan said:


> You're clearly resentful that she didn't react as you'd hoped when you bought her the car. You've mentioned your dissatisfaction with her reaction to it, on this and a few other threads.
> 
> So, what were you expecting to get from her in exchange for that Lincoln? Is she aware of what you feel she owes you for it?
> 
> Honestly, this situation sounds like a prime example of a covert contract.


As I said....She thinks spending money is too easy, so expectations are futile....


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

How do you respond when she shows disrespect?

I can't imagine my wife showing disrespect and I can't imagine disrespecting her. It's just a deal breaker - you have to stick up for your partner with family and friends and expect the same. Also treat each other like they are the one person in the world you have chosen to be with.

I've got more than a couple decades in my relationship. Yes we disagree and even say things that can be hurtful - as long as they're true. No one is perfect so of course each of us will be out of like occasionally.

But disrespecting is way different IMO.

That would result in a verbal smack-down - I think we both would take that position. That is the only reasonable response - take extreme issue with it immediately and nip it in the bud.

Can you elaborate on what she says or does and your response?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

intheory said:


> I only ask because if you want a sensitive, sweet guy; chances are, he's going to be a lot less "take charge, take control, decisive"
> 
> I think people (in this case women) have to realize that if you want a stereotypically "masculine" guy; there's a chance he will not be as attentive or thoughtful to the little kind gestures that a sensitive guy will be.
> 
> Neither guy is wrong. But you can't pick a sweetheart of a guy, then bìtçh 'cause he isn't tough enough. You know?










...the sensitive gentleman type will first & foremost think of his lady...

The majority of women are not attracted to men like this.. they pine after these Alpha males - many have an inflated Ego.. then the troubles begin...I guess with any personality.. there will be GOOD and not so good.. 



intheory said:


> I know, huh? I'm always looking for synonyms; you can't say "nice" - it's a dirty word?
> 
> *I think most of human interaction is a "covert contract"; but that's a topic for another thread* :wink2:


 another definition I had to look up.. never heard of it before I came here... good article here :

Covert contracts - expectations in marriage - Sex Within Marriage ...would make an interesting thread topic Intheory!



> "A covert contract is an agreement you haven’t actually made, but which you believe to be solid. Covert contracts occur when you have a plan in your head, some sort of trade, but it is never explicitly stated, so when it comes time for “payment” and it falls through, you feel cheated, but your spouse is oblivious..".


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Of course women do like a nice guy. I open the door for my wife, I walk on the street side when I hold her hand. I open doors for her. I push her chair in for her and take her coat. That is part of being a "gentleman". That being said, they also want said same "nice guy" to walk up to her, take her up in his arms, and ravage her so she knows she is desirable. It isn't terribly difficult to mix the two effectively.

Really...It is simply that simple. This isn't "Rocket Science" people.

My wife does admit that she likes the "bad boy"...But she also likes the fact that her "bad boy" still sheds a tear when he watches the scene where Forrest speaks to his "Jenny" by her grave.

But it does appear to ring true that many women are sexually attracted to dangerous, confident men.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> No chocolate or shoes, but a new Lincoln...Her attitude...Just spending money on her is too easy....She doesn't say it...But I can tell, so no reason to expect anything special...


You have been married for 50 years or so, right?

What kind of access does your wife have to money? Is your money kept joint? Or is all of it, or most of it kept in your name?

The reason I ask is that maybe she does not see it as you buying her a car but instead the two of you buying a car that she will use.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Rowan said:
> 
> 
> > You're clearly resentful that she didn't react as you'd hoped when you bought her the car. You've mentioned your dissatisfaction with her reaction to it, on this and a few other threads.
> ...


 But is this of your own making since you give her everything she wants?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You have been married for 50 years or so, right?
> 
> What kind of access does your wife have to money? Is your money kept joint? Or is all of it, or most of it kept in your name?
> 
> The reason I ask is that maybe she does not see it as you buying her a car but instead the two of you buying a car that she will use.


We are totally joint account, she handles all the money, But I had Inherited a large sum.....I used a portion of it to buy her the car....The rest to become debt free, and some rental property....

She was afraid to drive it for a while, and drove my convertible most of the summer.....Before that she would not drive the Mustang.....Go figure.....


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Ladies, can your SO be too nice? Can it reach a point where you loose respect for him as a man?.....
> 
> I am not talking about a wimp...or girly man.....I have done some pretty rough things in front of her, including punching an attempted rapist into the ground...
> 
> ...


This concept is very difficult to grasp. I struggle with this too.
I have come to the conclusion that my wife likes what I call "easy lead."

This is someone that can take control without being "controlling."
Also, someone who does what he needs to do without telegraphing or telling someone after the fact. Let me try to give you examples.

I hate closing and opening our pool, HATE IT with a passion!
In the past I would gripe and groan about it for weeks before and after the fact. Now, the "easy lead" man will say how he hates doing it ONCE and then do it. Nothing more. After I am done I don't even tell my wife I did it. Weeks will go by and she will ask "did you close the pool?" To which I respond, "yes" and that's it. No whining, no explaining how difficult It was or how long it took, just "yes." I can tell her mind spins and wonders when or how I did not complain about it. Do everything like that. 

I think being nice is good, it's about how you go about it.
Never expect or desire ANYTHING in return. Do what you want to do because that's what you want to do. Don't talk about it before, don't talk about it afterwards. You're a man. Men don't need emotional support, they just do.

Obviously, the "holy grail" is sex. In my opinion you have to be the easy leader and then "take" the sex. Be who you are, no whining, no complaining and then "take." Don't ask for sex. For example, instead of asking "do you want to have sex tonight" change it to "I want you tonight" with a firm hand.

The "easy lead" with the "take" might work for you.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Woodchuck, 
I bought my wife a new Mercedes GL450 for Christmas 2013. Basically I got a "thank you" and that's it. If I had given it to her without expecting ANYTHING in return, not even a thank you and meant it, she would have probably ripped my clothes off.

Instead, I was a bit disappointed. I really don't know what I was "expecting" but obviously it was something. That attitude in and of itself is the problem.

NEVER expect anything. Men do because they want to do. You buy the car for her because you love her and want her to have the best............THAT'S IT.

You / Me and every other man need to learn this.

BTW: If I had given her a two page hand written letter on how much she meant to me along with one rose INSTEAD of the Mercedes, she would have been even happier. That's a fact.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> Woodchuck,
> I bought my wife a new Mercedes GL450 for Christmas 2013. Basically I got a "thank you" and that's it. If I had given it to her without expecting ANYTHING in return, not even a thank you and meant it, she would have probably ripped my clothes off.
> 
> Instead, I was a bit disappointed. I really don't know what I was "expecting" but obviously it was something. That attitude in and of itself is the problem.
> ...


Believe me, I am WAY past EXPECT.....
And becoming fast friends with disappointment...


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Believe me, I am WAY past EXPECT.....
> And becoming fast friends with disappointment...


What are you disappointed with?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

UMP said:


> Woodchuck said:
> 
> 
> > Ladies, can your SO be too nice? Can it reach a point where you loose respect for him as a man?.....
> ...



Yes that's an interesting way to describe it.

I'm pretty old school - I don't mind acknowledging that spouses can have different times in a marriage. I think this is a very important base to build a marriage on. Younger guys might think the ideal is equal. Not me - no way. Equal isn't even a consideration. Very important point.

For example, I cooked when we married. The first thing my wife did was take over the kitchen. Nothing against my cooking, but she wanted to own that domain. Fine with me; she's a great cook now. My kids - some are really independent and creative cooks even in middle school.

I take care of all mechanical things. Only because she hates that work. Fine - I don't mind it.

I'm a guy - I can swear like a sailor when I'm fixing something. It's necessary to get the parts lined up and the screws out you see. She admonishes me and the kids all say "Dad!" but we all play it up a bit and no one else swears. But there is no doubt I am a man when I work. Btw I also don't hesitate to say no to a task. If I'm relaxing and don't feel like working I say no and leave it at that. Not enough hours in the day to get everything done anyway.

My job is in technology where I use my brain so I like to use my hands at home.

We're happy. We have separate roles but we respect each other and if something is bothering one of us the other takes care of it.

We want our kids to be confident, independent kids. The wife brings all the gentle qualities - nice, considerate, thoughtful. She's rubbed off on me considerably,

So I guess maybe the independence and confidence are what women see and translate it to leadership or masculinity. Don't know.

Agree on sex too. I was considerate of my wife's fatigue etc with lots of kids, school work etc. but finally put my foot down saying she will always have people to support and things she wants to do. So do what you want but I expect xxxx in regards to sex. Ultimately she really likes that - I let her collapse at night (she gets up early) and wake her when I come to bed and she takes care of me. She had responsive desire - common in women, so by taking care of me she ends up getting arroused and it works for her. So we are better off than ever in that department. This was something that worked because I was very direct and driven and I guess masculine about it. Not cave man like but I told her how amazing and sexy she is and I am always up for her. All true btw


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Different roles not different times. Autocorrect. Edit not working


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

intheory said:


> My questions are somewhat rhetorical. Or, I'm thinking out loud. But I wanted to post this, because I think some of this doctrine of "no covert contracts" etc. etc., goes way too far.


Expecting give and take in a relationship, where you get some return for your giving in due course, is totally reasonable and healthy. That give and take is what makes relationships work, long-term. A covert contract, though, is doing something nice and expecting a specific result in direct response, not telling your partner what response you'd like, and then getting all sulky and resentful when that desired response doesn't magically materialize. 

The OP bought his wife a car. And he's been posting veiled, and not so veiled, references to her "attitude" about it ever since. He clearly expected some specific reaction from her in return for the car. She clearly hasn't provided it. So, is this a case where she knows specifically what reaction he wanted and isn't providing it out of selfishness? Or is it a case where she isn't clearly and specifically aware of what he wanted, and is left to guess what he's all assed-up about? Because, ya know, if she _really_ loved him she's just _know_ what he wants.

Was he hoping she'd jump his bones? Was he hoping for verbal praise? Was he hoping for effusive thanks? Nothing really wrong with any of those wants. But not getting them, being mad about it and then refusing to be clear about what - exactly - is bothering him, is a problem. Since he's been very dodgy in his posts here in answering exactly what he was hoping for, I do wonder if he's been the same with his wife. Which is why I brought up the possibility of a covert contract to begin with.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> Expecting give and take in a relationship, where you get some return for your giving in due course, is totally reasonable and healthy. That give and take is what makes relationships work, long-term. A covert contract, though, is doing something nice and expecting a specific result in direct response, *not telling your partner what response you'd like, and then getting all sulky and resentful when that desired response doesn't magically materialize.
> *
> The OP bought his wife a car. And he's been posting veiled, and not so veiled, references to her "attitude" about it ever since. He clearly expected some specific reaction from her in return for the car. She clearly hasn't provided it. So, is this a case where she knows specifically what reaction he wanted and isn't providing it out of selfishness? Or is it a case where she isn't clearly and specifically aware of what he wanted, and is left to guess what he's all assed-up about? Because, ya know, if she _really_ loved him she's just _know_ what he wants.
> 
> Was he hoping she'd jump his bones? Was he hoping for verbal praise? Was he hoping for effusive thanks? Nothing really wrong with any of those wants. But not getting them, being mad about it and then refusing to be clear about what - exactly - is bothering him, is a problem. Since he's been very dodgy in his posts here in answering exactly what he was hoping for, I do wonder if he's been the same with his wife. Which is why I brought up the possibility of a covert contract to begin with.


to be fair sometimes you don't know what reaction you want you just know you want a reaction when you go out of your way to do something big. My example

When first married my X and I had nothing but after marriage both got careers and made a little money. Her car was old and she just took a new position in downtown. So we discussed her getting a new car. It was important to me that she be safe driving and after her old car broke down on the interstate I had enough of worrying she would make it to work. Now my X notoriously hates car shopping. I mean hates it. So I said I would do the negotiations but she needed to come pick it out and drive it. She wanted none of it. 

So finally I spent my whole Saturday looking at and driving cars, calling back and forth to ask her about colors and features and finally bought her a car. Now I say bought her, it was our money, but I spent my entire Saturday off at the dealership dealing with this thing. Even at one point had to drive home to get her car for the trade in and asked her again if she wanted to come drive her new car home....nah I will see it when you get back....ok then. Even the dealer thought It was crazy to buy and never test drive lol. So i bought it, drove it home, and really didn't know what to expect...at least a heartfelt thank you for doing this for her and got nothing but a kiss on the cheek. Brand new car in the garage and she didn't even want to drive it.

I was upset by her lack of reaction a few days...not really sure how to process it. We did discuss it finally and she apologized for coming off as aloof about the whole thing. You are correct Rowan that pouting about it non stop does no good. I simply solved the problem by saying I was disappointed in the reaction and wouldn't do that again for her and i never did. 

So i sorta agree with you and don't. I think it's ok to expect a reaction even if you don't know specifically what you are looking for. I think for many men it's just feeling appreciated for what they did as I always appreciated my X for what she did. If you don't get a reaction you are looking for probably best not to do that thing again. I mean back then no one had the 5 love languages so her top wouldn't have been acts of service obviously.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> But you obviously hate maintaining the stupid pool; why can't you at least vent about it? Isn't that part of what a spouse is for? To be there for you when you need to let off some steam about stuff that's driving you crazy?
> 
> Whenever anyone (male or female) does something for their SO, why is it considered selfish or unreasonable to expect "something in return". I don't mean quid pro quo. I just mean that in the ebb and flow of the relationship, you'll somehow be shown that it was appreciated.
> 
> ...


I do vent, but just once. Nobody likes a whiner much less someone that whines who is supposed to be a sexual turn on.

I am not doing anything special. It is my job to take care of what I have to take care of. I should expect nothing in return. If it bothers me more than I can handle than it's up to me to fill the pool with concrete. Not there.....yet 

I still get emotional support from my wife, but I don't go on and on and on about what bothers me. From where I stand, my wife and I assume many women don't like to have sex with emotional tampons. I can complain and cry on my wifes shoulder all day long. However, I should not expect to get a randy lay afterwards.

I want my wife to be hot and bothered FOR me. After 24 years of experimentation I will tell you that she DOES NOT get turned on from an emotional, angry, whinny, indecisive fat man. Of THAT, I can assure you.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Very interesting discussion. I'm with intheory though.

I do what I want but frankly I mostly want my wife and family to be happy so interesting that this motivates my behavior so my actions might be similar to a guy much more beta than me.

But I never ever expect anything in return.

Then again I've learned that i want sex every night so now I get sex every night. Unless I want to give her a rest. Not being a jerk here and I do saw sweet things and treat her like my one and only but I do think there is something to just not trying to play games with gifts and expectations. Say what you want and need and give what your SO wants and needs. 

I realize I might just be lucky and have an amazing wife


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

My husband is the kindest, most decent and generous human I have ever met. He would give someone the shirt from his back if they really needed it.

But he is no pushover and would fight to the death for his family and beliefs.

Motives and intention. People are "nice" for different reasons, not all of them healthy.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> I'm sorry.:frown2: But if it works for you to be stoic, and your sexual fulfillment is better, then I'm glad this approach has worked for you as a couple.
> 
> -------------------
> 
> @Rowan and @Wolf1974 Good view of both sides of the coin, on "covert contracts"


There is really nothing for you to be sorry about. I am fine.
I used to be very emotional and tell my wife all my inner feelings.
She was and IS very understanding.
However, and this is a BIG however, she could not get into me sexually. The more emotional I am, the less she is attracted to me sexually.

On the flip side. If I "cry" on my wifes shoulder on a regular basis, I too lose sexual attraction for my wife. Why? Because if I treat her like she is my mother, that's how I will view her.

Not good for sex.

I can find other people's shoulders to cry on, like you :grin2:

Seriously, this is a good place to "cry" without any negative ramifications.


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