# misaligned faith-destined for failure?



## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Hi! Hoping to get some advice here. My guy (34) and I (31) have been together for 2.5 years. We were both recently divorced when we met. We are aligned on many important things, we have gone over each other’s love languages. We have mutual love and respect for each other, we are great at communicating, listening. While of course, the relationship has imperfections, I couldn’t think up a more suitable person for me. 

ANYWAY, there is one big hang up with us. He grew up in a practicing Christian household. I grew up in a “yeah, there’s a God, and when we die we go to heaven” household. That was it. He’s expressed a level of doubt in his Christianity (and through most of his teen/adult years) and has decided that it’s his duty to explore it and decide for himself how important faith is to him, and what he believes when it comes to Christianity. 

Important part: He said that IF he comes to these conclusions that Christianity, he may need to be with someone who’s on the same page as him. (Or pretty close) important for kids, life, work, all of these areas. 

Now, I’ve been supportive. We’ve been going to church on sundays, we’ve been checking different ones out, talking about it, reading about it. I’m trying my best to be open to it all, to express my thoughts on it. But again, it’s never been a huge part of my life, so it’s not as “gripping” if you will. I do enjoy going to church, and learning, I just don’t feel as “moved” by it as I think I’m supposed to.

So basically we’re deciding if we can be together or not based on his exploration of faith. It’s tough though! I don’t know if we should cut it off so that he can focus on it more.... or take a break.... I want to get married and have a family with this man. But he wants to have all of his ducks in a row before we get married. (Smart guy) but for me, I’ve got my ducks all lined up and I’m ready to roll! 

I don’t know if spending time apart would give him more time to explore this, and think about it. Or if it’s important that we do this together even if it takes years and years. 

Any advice, thoughts. I don’t want to rush him, because I think that would be selfish and I do think he’s right, we need to get this sorted out. He said if we do get married in the future he just wants us to have the best odds of success. 

Thank you in advice.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*In my ecclesiastical thought process, I cannot see where time spent apart would remotely render a positive result.

The far better result is to continue to uncritically share your feelings about this particular subject matter with your spouse!*


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I wouldn't say it's destined for failure, but it would likely be an ongoing point of contention in your relationship. If he's someone who lives by the code of the Bible, I could imagine him basing his life on a foundation of "because the Bible says so". He may also want to have his life be devoted to service to God. If you're not on-board with that way of thinking, it may lead to more frustration and arguments. But I wouldn't say that's means the relationship will end. It just means the you both will need to put in some effort to discuss things with respect and understanding to come up with workable compromises.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *In my ecclesiastical thought process, I cannot see where time spent apart would remotely render a positive result.
> 
> The far better result is to continue to uncritically share your feelings about this particular subject matter with your spouse!*



Not sure if I’m replying correctly. But thank you. I appreciate your response. Yes, again, we are very respectful about all of it, which I think is very important. Thank you again.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

wilson said:


> I wouldn't say it's destined for failure, but it would likely be an ongoing point of contention in your relationship. If he's someone who lives by the code of the Bible, I could imagine him basing his life on a foundation of "because the Bible says so". He may also want to have his life be devoted to service to God. If you're not on-board with that way of thinking, it may lead to more frustration and arguments. But I wouldn't say that's means the relationship will end. It just means the you both will need to put in some effort to discuss things with respect and understanding to come up with workable compromises.


 I am pretty good at putting in effort and understanding. That way of thinking” Doesn’t bother me. I’m not one to be like “NO WAY” I would rather discuss it and come at it from all angles. I’m a pleasure, I’m sure haha anyway, I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks!


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Important part: He said that IF he comes to these conclusions that Christianity, he may need to be with someone who’s on the same page as him.


Seems like he's looking for an out. To let you down gently. 

(Out of curiosity, and not related to what I said above, but do you have children from your first marriage?).


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I think that different spiritual beliefs don't matter, unless believing the same way really matters to one or both of you.

My wife was raised in a fundamentalist muslim household. I was raised in a theoretically protestant household, where I only went to church for weddings and funerals. But we had a bible that I read often as a child.

We both have our beliefs, and pretty much celebrate everything. But our life is not based in them, nor do we feel the need to have the same beliefs as each other. I think that last part is key. If your partner feels you need to have the same beliefs as he does, and you don't, there's going to be problems. If he has strong beliefs but is happy for you to follow your own spiritual path, there's not likely to be big problems.

But it sounds like he's been fairly clear that he wants to be with someone that believes as he does. That's not you. So that's a fairly serious point of incompatibility here, and one that is likely to grow over time instead of shrink.

Me? I'd be out.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Ok, I've read and re-read the OP several times now, trying to glean as much as possible.

Some questions.

Your husband has been questioning his faith for the last 20-ish years. What's the purpose of attending numerous different churches? Did this just recently start? Is he looking for one that adheres to his present beliefs, or looking for a certain experience, or other?

Is your husband's concern regarding your ''take it/leave it''attitude towards Christianity that no matter if he goes full agnostic/atheist or full bore Christianity, either way you'd be incompatible?

And for you, HH, are you willing to wait indefinitely to start a family? 2.5yrs is an adequate amount of time to get to know someone, but as you know, the bio-clock is ticking. At some point sooner or later, you're just not investing your time wisely. Are you overly agreeable, or easily persuaded? Sure, it's smart to get all the duck lined up perfectly, but what if his religious ducks take another 1.5yrs, and then his financial ducks take a few more years, then his emotional ducks.....etc?

(Out of curiosity, how much time does he spend reading the Bible?)


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> Hollyhobbie said:
> 
> 
> > Important part: He said that IF he comes to these conclusions that Christianity, he may need to be with someone who’s on the same page as him.
> ...


Thank you for your thought. No, we do not have children. We started this relationship with brutal honestly. We made a promise to be honest with each other even if it hurt and we’ve certainly fulfilled that. I’ve asked him if he’s basically wanting to end it... and that it’s okay if so, it’s his life and he needs to focus on what makes him happy. So maybe what you said is true! It totally could be. From what I know of him, he would be devastated if we split however I do think he would have the courage to do it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OnTheFly said:


> Ok, I've read and re-read the OP several times now, trying to glean as much as possible.
> 
> Some questions.
> 
> ...


Insightful, didn't pick up on that.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Marduk said:


> I think that different spiritual beliefs don't matter, unless believing the same way really matters to one or both of you.
> 
> My wife was raised in a fundamentalist muslim household. I was raised in a theoretically protestant household, where I only went to church for weddings and funerals. But we had a bible that I read often as a child.
> 
> ...


Yes. I hear what you’re saying. He is being fairly clear that no matter what conclusion he comes to, he BELIEVES that it’ll be important to be on the same page. Whether he can get on board with Christianity or not. And I do think you’re right about it being important to one and not the other and how that could be a problem. I’ve dated an atheist and it wasn’t an issue. I would say I’m a “hopeful” Christian. Where I sure hope it’s all true because it sounds great. But again, it’s just not a big “need” for me in the relationship where I do think it’s a “need” to be on the same page for him. Or at least he thinks it MIGHT be a need. He’s trying to explore that part as well. 

Thank you again.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Yes. I hear what you’re saying. He is being fairly clear that no matter what conclusion he comes to, he BELIEVES that it’ll be important to be on the same page. Whether he can get on board with Christianity or not. And I do think you’re right about it being important to one and not the other and how that could be a problem. I’ve dated an atheist and it wasn’t an issue. I would say I’m a “hopeful” Christian. Where I sure hope it’s all true because it sounds great. But again, it’s just not a big “need” for me in the relationship where I do think it’s a “need” to be on the same page for him. Or at least he thinks it MIGHT be a need. He’s trying to explore that part as well.
> 
> Thank you again.


I think @OnTheFly is onto something here.

It sounds like he's saying that he's still deciding what faith he wants to have, and no matter what it is, he wants to be with someone that believes as he does.

This is essentially either him saying that he's going to move the goalposts wherever he wants to make sure you're incompatible, or that he feels free to change his mind spiritually, but you don't if you stay with him. Either way, recipe for disaster.

I'd be clear with him. This is who I am and where I'm going. Take it or leave it.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> Ok, I've read and re-read the OP several times now, trying to glean as much as possible.
> 
> Some questions.
> 
> ...


Wanted to mention that we aren’t married yet-dating and wanting to make sure it’s all relatively in line before we jump into the marriage-as we’ve both been divorced. 

You’re right, I’ve told him that sometimes I feel like he’s a moving target with his thoughts. Like, if he ends up a super Christian, or an atheist (which won’t be the case. He believes in God just not a lot of the Bible)... it just feels like a moving target when I’m trying my best to encourage, and learn. I mean, look, if I could take a pill and magically be Christian I would. But it’s not as easy. I would say I’m probably overly agreeable. I’m pretty “go with the flow” with most things hnlsss I have a hard stance and I’ll make it known. I’m willing to wait another 3 years or so before Marriage. But then again, if I split with him... it’ll take that long to figure it all out with someone else. 

But again, that’s not really what I want to do. I don’t see him as just a person to start a family with. I see him as someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. Kids sound great. I would love them. But, am I really in love with this person if I would drop him JUST to have children with someone? Also, totally get the part about the ducks and when one thing is great another thing needs work. I think that’s just how life works, right? If it’s not one thing, it’s another. Great point. He hasn’t so much been reading the Bible. He read it as a child and went to church a lot then. He’s been reading books making the case for God. Or listening to debates about it, or podcasts discussing faith. I think he wants to be persuaded to believe first, as much as he can. And then we do the church thing on Sunday so we get scripture then. Sometimes we stay home and listen to two sermons.

I really appreciate this conversation. You pose a lot of great questions. It’s a lot to think about. 🤔


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Marduk said:


> Hollyhobbie said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. I hear what you’re saying. He is being fairly clear that no matter what conclusion he comes to, he BELIEVES that it’ll be important to be on the same page. Whether he can get on board with Christianity or not. And I do think you’re right about it being important to one and not the other and how that could be a problem. I’ve dated an atheist and it wasn’t an issue. I would say I’m a “hopeful” Christian. Where I sure hope it’s all true because it sounds great. But again, it’s just not a big “need” for me in the relationship where I do think it’s a “need” to be on the same page for him. Or at least he thinks it MIGHT be a need. He’s trying to explore that part as well.
> ...


I’ve mentioned to him that sometimes it feels like a moving target and he has apologized. He’s like, this is just something I need to figure out. He’s said he’s not sure if “being on the same page” is important or not but that he assumes it is, based on talking to people and reading where many say it’s important. What is it? Money, kids, religious beliefs that are considered the important things to be relatively aligned on? That’s what “they” say I guess... everyone is different. 

For me, yes, those are all very important but so is respect, communication, and ability for compromise. I don’t know. I get what you’re saying... I’ve said, it doesn’t seem like the odds are that great. And he says he’s hopeful that we can make it work. We spend a lot of time together. That’s why I was thinking, maybe it would be better spend time apart so he could get his thoughts in order and if he comes to a place of peace, maybe we could reconvene. But I also think it may be important for me to go through this too. I feel like it’s possible that I do get something out of it. I’m not against learning or trying it. You know? 

Thanks again for keeping the convo going, I appreciate your perspective.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

For now I would just like to point out:

A difference in faith is most likely going to become a bigger issue when children are born. At that point it becomes "what are we going to teach the children".


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Wanted to mention that we aren’t married yet-dating and wanting to make sure it’s all relatively in line before we jump into the marriage-as we’ve both been divorced.
> 
> You’re right, I’ve told him that sometimes I feel like he’s a moving target with his thoughts. Like, if he ends up a super Christian, or an atheist (which won’t be the case. He believes in God just not a lot of the Bible)... it just feels like a moving target when I’m trying my best to encourage, and learn. I mean, look, if I could take a pill and magically be Christian I would. But it’s not as easy. I would say I’m probably overly agreeable. I’m pretty “go with the flow” with most things hnlsss I have a hard stance and I’ll make it known. I’m willing to wait another 3 years or so before Marriage. But then again, if I split with him... it’ll take that long to figure it all out with someone else.
> 
> ...


You both seem very introspective, a good ingredient to a healthy relationship. 

If I may offer a suggestion. Some evening, while snuggling on the couch, turn off all electronics and ask him to start reading the Gospel of John to you. In the last two verses, John explains why he wrote his Gospel, and I think it applies perfectly to the both of you, but specially to your guy. 

John 20:30,31 " Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."

I also love to listen to sermons, watch debates, read commentaries, etc, but nothing beats reading straight from the Word.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Hollyhobbie said:


> I’ve mentioned to him that sometimes it feels like a moving target and he has apologized. He’s like, this is just something I need to figure out. He’s said he’s not sure if “being on the same page” is important or not but that he assumes it is, based on talking to people and reading where many say it’s important. What is it? Money, kids, religious beliefs that are considered the important things to be relatively aligned on? That’s what “they” say I guess... everyone is different.
> 
> For me, yes, those are all very important but so is respect, communication, and ability for compromise. I don’t know. I get what you’re saying... I’ve said, it doesn’t seem like the odds are that great. And he says he’s hopeful that we can make it work. We spend a lot of time together. That’s why I was thinking, maybe it would be better spend time apart so he could get his thoughts in order and if he comes to a place of peace, maybe we could reconvene. But I also think it may be important for me to go through this too. I feel like it’s possible that I do get something out of it. I’m not against learning or trying it. You know?
> 
> Thanks again for keeping the convo going, I appreciate your perspective.


He's not ready to commit. At least not to you. He's using religion as an escape hatch to get out of this relationship. You sound like you're in two different places in your life. My blunt read.

I hope I'm wrong.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

We've had that discussion, too. Basically, I said that I would just want my children to be accepting of people as people. So if their friend believes something else, its important to me that they dont look at them a certain way. I'm fine with them going to church and learning about christianity. I'm certainly not opposed to it. Its just also important that they know that its NOT okay to shame anyone else for believing otherwise.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Hollyhobbie said:


> We've had that discussion, too. Basically, I said that I would just want my children to be accepting of people as people. So if their friend believes something else, its important to me that they dont look at them a certain way. I'm fine with them going to church and learning about christianity. I'm certainly not opposed to it. Its just also important that they know that its NOT okay to shame anyone else for believing otherwise.


What I said was "how about we both teach them everything we know, have our parents do the same, expose them to everything... and when they're old enough, say 14, they pick for themselves?"

She was cool with that, but it was her biggest anxiety about the whole thing. Turns out her family had zero interest in trying to get our kids to follow their faith and expected me to somehow do it for them. I didn't, except to educate them as best I could on the history and comparative beliefs. 

My kids are pretty well education regarding religion, but pretty disinterested, too. I mean, we celebrate Eid and Christmas. We go to muslim funerals and christian ones. We have a bible and a koran. 

They seem more interested in the cultural aspects than they do anything else. They think the hookah is cool. One eats pork, the others don't. We have booze in the house, but we also have several hamsa's scattered around the house, but we don't fast. We find our way, but we don't pressure about anything, merely seek to explain and to guide as best we can.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Marduk said:


> What I said was "how about we both teach them everything we know, have our parents do the same, expose them to everything... and when they're old enough, say 14, they pick for themselves?"
> 
> She was cool with that, but it was her biggest anxiety about the whole thing. Turns out her family had zero interest in trying to get our kids to follow their faith and expected me to somehow do it for them. I didn't, except to educate them as best I could on the history and comparative beliefs.
> 
> ...


This is really insightful. I love that you both agreed to go into it just educating on what you could. It sounds like its been a roughly rocky road in that area but also seems like they are pretty well rounded. The non-pressured thing and letting them sort of do their own thing based on information given is really cool, too. I mean, that goes for a lot of areas with children, right? We guide them to be good people and hopefully make smart decisions. We are guides. (I dont have children but I'm a nanny and have aided in raising several children) Yes, I do think if we decided to stick it out, it would bring up some turmoil along the way, but its turmoil that I don't mind dealing with. It's turmoil that I'm eager to address quite frankly. It's life, its interesting, I like the conversation. If he was someone who didnt listen and didnt take my thoughts and think about them, I couldnt do it. But its always a conversation and I appreciate that.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Its sounds as if both of you aren't too sure about your beliefs. But it also sounds like if you both were to become serious in your religion, then it would be the same religion - Christianity. If he were looking at other religions and you were a firm Christian or maybe just didn't agree with his religion then I think it could be an issue later on. As it stands, you can probably just let it play out.

I do think however, if he wants to grow his faith without a Bible, then he may eventually give up. Faith is not reason and reason is not faith.

Whatever the case, it sounds like you are Ok with him leading the direction on religion, so if that works for you then I don't think it will be an issue.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

In my view, being a Christian involves accepting/believing that Jesus is the son of God (part of the Trinity) who died for my sins because I could never be perfect as a human. I, in return, want to live a certain way because of my beliefs.

Then, there are various churches each with their own policies and expectations--

I am Lutheran and even within the Lutherans there are several different, but important to them, tenets. Pray that God will give y'all insight and direction.

It is important to know that Christians vary mightily individually and collectively in many ways, but respect the perspective of other Christians.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Hi! Hoping to get some advice here. My guy (34) and I (31) have been together for 2.5 years. We were both recently divorced when we met. We are aligned on many important things, we have gone over each other’s love languages. We have mutual love and respect for each other, we are great at communicating, listening. While of course, the relationship has imperfections, I couldn’t think up a more suitable person for me.
> 
> ANYWAY, there is one big hang up with us. He grew up in a practicing Christian household. I grew up in a “yeah, there’s a God, and when we die we go to heaven” household. That was it. He’s expressed a level of doubt in his Christianity (and through most of his teen/adult years) and has decided that it’s his duty to explore it and decide for himself how important faith is to him, and what he believes when it comes to Christianity.
> 
> ...


Not reading any other post, l will say it really be important to him enough so that he is telling you and laying the ground rules. 

I personally was a saved again Christian, but that said my life changes all the time. Do I believe of course and I accept Jesus Christ as my savior. I will do to my best to follow and teach and live the Christian life. "Am l head over heels in a phase " at one time I was" but at the moment I struggle with my life. I find it my duty to teach and live the life of a christian to my children and family, and all others. I fail miserable sometimes. But because of their christian beliefs show me grace as I also do to them. 

This doesn't mean your new foundation of christianity will not grow. And if you already feel aprehiensive about this means you choose not to grow on this. And because of this your will have failed your future husband, and will have cheated him out of a fully committed wife who holds and shares the same commitment that he expects and wants to share with you.

I will not argue the merits of a different belief system, but only share what I believe.

Because he is a committed christian, scripture tells him NOT!! to marry a unbeliever. It is not your husband's responsibility to bring you to the faith, but to share and help you grow in it.

Quote:
I don’t know if spending time apart would give him more time to explore this, and think about it. Or if it’s important that we do this together even if it takes years and years
End quote.

If you truly love him why would you expect him to change his belief in God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, to him this would be denouncing everything he believes in. And then in his belief in scripture it says the and one who denounce's the Holy Spirit goes to Hell. This is the one and only way to secure's you path to Hell do you think you are worth that? I am not saying that you have all the admirations of a truly great and wonderful person but. Asking him to see you worth more than his salivation, that a truly tall order. In scripture this is the one and only unforgivable Sin. 

But in my faith if asked to be killed or survive and live, but to denounce the Holy Spirit! I would choose Death. 

So there...... this is my take on what you are asking him to do, and I am not interpreting the scripture but relaying what it says about one's personal faith. 

So I am only responding to your post, but as other here will tell you faith is no big deal or there isn't a God, so be it but this is MY interpretation of what you ask.

Tilted.

Now I will read what other have said.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm wondering if it is not confusing to your fella to delve into so many different possibilities as many learned theologians over the years have their own viewpoints. Discussing this with clergy may help.

It is easy to veer from Christian beliefs into man-made beliefs instilled as gospel in some churches.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

If you are not particularly religious (it sounds like you are not), he may very well drive you nuts should he become engrossed in his own. Its not an easy situation when one is devout and the other is not. If I were you, I would take this whole thing as my signal to exit the stage. I would not want to just stand there while my significant other plays around trying to decide whether or not I am going to fit into his life in the way he wants. He is just leaving you in this holding pattern, possibly indefinitely. I think its crap and completely unfair to you.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Tilted 1 said:


> Not reading any other post, l will say it really be important to him enough so that he is telling you and laying the ground rules.
> 
> I personally was a saved again Christian, but that said my life changes all the time. Do I believe of course and I accept Jesus Christ as my savior. I will do to my best to follow and teach and live the Christian life. "Am l head over heels in a phase " at one time I was" but at the moment I struggle with my life. I find it my duty to teach and live the life of a christian to my children and family, and all others. I fail miserable sometimes. But because of their christian beliefs show me grace as I also do to them.
> 
> ...


Hi! Thank you for taking time to respond. I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I didnt explain it well enough, he is exploring his faith, grew up christian and is questioning it. I have encouraged him to explore it and I am exploring it with him. I am not turned off by the idea of him being a Christian. In fact, if he explores this and decides that this is something that fulfills him, helps him grow, and it becomes a part of his life, then great! I am on board regardless. I am not asking him to stop searching, I'm encouraging him to do so. He's decided that he needs to 1. do this for himself and 2.dive into this and decide if hes capable of having a relationship that may involve not being on the same page. Hes not sure where he'll land at this point. My only suggestion was if its better for me to back off to give him all of the time/energy he needs to focus on this... or stay and support him and myself through this process and hopefully come out better for all of it at the end.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Hi! Thank you for taking time to respond. I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I didnt explain it well enough, he is exploring his faith, grew up christian and is questioning it. I have encouraged him to explore it and I am exploring it with him. I am not turned off by the idea of him being a Christian. In fact, if he explores this and decides that this is something that fulfills him, helps him grow, and it becomes a part of his life, then great! I am on board regardless. I am not asking him to stop searching, I'm encouraging him to do so. He's decided that he needs to 1. do this for himself and 2.dive into this and decide if hes capable of having a relationship that may involve not being on the same page. Hes not sure where he'll land at this point. My only suggestion was if its better for me to back off to give him all of the time/energy he needs to focus on this... or stay and support him and myself through this process and hopefully come out better for all of it at the end.


No l get it and the verbage, can change. But as l see it yes you are not compatible enough, and as 3X said why do/would you wait wasting time trying to find out.

I do understand what your explaining on your post but I am giving you a unfiltered response from a Christian Man point of view and if he believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it matters not which CHRISTIAN " Insert Christian Church name here" Church he goes too, because they will and practice and believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


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## Hollyhobbie (Feb 14, 2017)

Tilted 1 said:


> No l get it and the verbage, can change. But as l see it yes you are not compatible enough, and as 3X said why do/would you wait wasting time trying to find out.
> 
> I do understand what your explaining on your post but I am giving you a unfiltered response from a Christian Man point of view and if he believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it matters not which CHRISTIAN " Insert Christian Church name here" Church he goes too, because they will and practice and believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.



I think I understand what you're saying. Thank you for clarifying your previous message. I dont know if I consider it "wasting time" if I'm still spending it with someone I love.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Holly, l wasn't thinking of you in this situation but him sorry.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Support him for a reasonable period of time, but realize that his life as an active Christian man may differ from whom he is now. 

Would suggest you search your heart about your beliefs as one does not become a Christian by marriage. You just might become an inspiration to him that he will always appreciate.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Thank you for your thought. No, we do not have children. We started this relationship with brutal honestly. We made a promise to be honest with each other even if it hurt and we’ve certainly fulfilled that. I’ve asked him if he’s basically wanting to end it... and that it’s okay if so, it’s his life and he needs to focus on what makes him happy. So maybe what you said is true! It totally could be. From what I know of him, he would be devastated if we split however I do think he would have the courage to do it.


It's great you're going to church as a family and that you both are open and honest with each other. The right church/church family and friends you're likely to develop in this phase of the relationship isn't about excluding anyone.

Many people go to church for a long time without going forward and accepting Christ. Eventually some do, and some don't. 

It is a great place to meet people and have family time. In the right place no one will attempt to "force" a person to believe, it's a very personal thing. 

Persons often find good friends and there are events for adults and families.

It's good that you are open to supporting your H as he re-investigates his faith. This is a normal age in one's life to do just that. Especially after one is raised in a church environment as a youth - there is always a future time for every person to explore his or her faith through adult eyes and as an adult. Very normal.

If H wants to draw again closer to Christ he will and imo that's great. If done properly he won't use that as a barrier between you and he but will create an environment that draws you and he closer regardless of you accepting Christ right away or ever, or anywhere in between. 

My advice is to just keep having a great marriage, spend time together as a family, and avoid thinking about the whole thing as problem.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Hi! Thank you for taking time to respond. I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I didnt explain it well enough, he is exploring his faith, grew up christian and is questioning it. I have encouraged him to explore it and I am exploring it with him. I am not turned off by the idea of him being a Christian. In fact, if he explores this and decides that this is something that fulfills him, helps him grow, and it becomes a part of his life, then great! I am on board regardless. I am not asking him to stop searching, I'm encouraging him to do so. He's decided that he needs to 1. do this for himself and 2.dive into this and decide if hes capable of having a relationship that may involve not being on the same page. Hes not sure where he'll land at this point. My only suggestion was if its better for me to back off to give him all of the time/energy he needs to focus on this... or stay and support him and myself through this process and hopefully come out better for all of it at the end.


Full disclosure. The first love of my life (we were 16) dumped me because I wasn't religious and she was a fairly fundamentalist Christian. (She changed her mind because I was so wonderful (0) and then dumped me again for the same reason!). 

I believe that she was right. Her religious beliefs were very important to her and, in hindsight, I don't think we could have prevented the conflict between our opinions eventually destroying our relationship.

It seems to me that your partner is a searcher - some searchers never find their goal and are in constant flux - or, perhaps more difficult to handle, they flit from belief system to belief system without staying anywhere for very long - they are, if you like, religious butterflies - sampling the nectar in one flower before darting to another. 

Will he expect you to modify your beliefs everytime he does?

It sounds as though he may. Can you honestly dump a belief system and wholeheartedly embrace another (or none) just because he does?

_Should you back off or stay?_

What if he never settles? Do you blindly follow him for ever or decide to stay where you feel is best for you?

What if he decides to follow a belief that you cannot support - one with restrictive attitudes to women and daughters - one with a requirement for real poverty - one which demands estrangement from family and friends who do not share his conviction - one which demands that you don't seek medical assistance for yourself or children - one that rejects monogamy etc. etc.. There are some horrible behaviours out there which are "sanctified" by the (mis?)use of "religion".

How close is his searching to an addiction? Is the next bet always going to be the big win?

Perhaps you should back off and give other decent men a chance?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Your post reminded me of the song "I still haven't found what I'm looking for."

My husband and I come from different countries and different backgrounds. We still have our differences, but when it comes to religious beliefs we were on the same page since the beginning. 

I'm not sure if two people having two different religious views can survive together. Specially if one of them is asking the other to convert or have the same faith as the other does. That could create trouble and a lot of resentment in the future.

Has your boyfriend been insecure about his beliefs for a while now? Or is it a new thing? Do you think he's going through a midlife crisis? 

Personally, I'm someone who goes with the flow but I don't want to belong to any church. If my husband decided to join a church I would have a very hard time adjusting and accepting, because going to church is not something I want to do. 

That would be a tough one for me.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Hi! Hoping to get some advice here. My guy (34) and I (31) have been together for 2.5 years. ...We are aligned on many important things...
> 
> ANYWAY, there is one big hang up with us. He grew up in a practicing Christian household. I grew up in a “yeah, there’s a God, and when we die we go to heaven” household. That was it. He’s expressed a level of doubt in his Christianity (and through most of his teen/adult years) and has decided that it’s his duty to explore it and decide for himself how important faith is to him, and what he believes when it comes to Christianity.
> 
> Important part: He said that IF he comes to these conclusions that Christianity, he may need to be with someone who’s on the same page as him. (Or pretty close) important for kids, life, work, all of these areas. ...


My Beloved Hubby and I are not of the same faith. I am a Christian, and by that I mean a follower of Christ, and not a "lower case c" christian ("Well we aren't muslim or jewish so we must be christians" and go at Christmas and Easter). My Beloved is Buddhist. We both find that our faith is important to us, but what we do is honor each other and keep our hearts open to the other and listen to and learn from each other. In real life, Buddhism has many philosophies that are wise, such as calmness and the nature of suffering. In real life, Christian and Buddhist philosophy can co-exist in that both believe in no murder, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no lying, and no intoxicants. So we find points of alignment, and some points of difference, and we discuss them. 

But my point to you would be almost a "what if." "What if" you were both Christians, but one was Catholic and the other Lutheran? That's a pretty big theology difference, but both are considered christian! "What if" you were at least both Protestants, but one was Baptist and the other was Presbyterian? That's armenianism vs. reformed theology! Would that be "Christian" enough for you to be on the same page? "What if" one was Southern Baptist and the other was Reformed Baptist? What if one was non-denominational, and the other was fundamental or evangelical? 

Can you see my point? Even if the both of you WERE christian, there not only COULD be differences in your theological and philosophical beliefs, there WOULD be differences! And that's because you are each individuals. You both believe what YOU believe, and no matter who he meets, there just isn't someone who will believe EXACTLY as he does. So the question he might ask himself as he learns about his own faith and beliefs isn't "how do I find someone who's on the same page as me (or pretty close)?"... the question would be more like "when I find a partner in life who is very compatible in many ways, am I willing to share my faith and beliefs with them and equally allow them to share their faith and beliefs with me?" 



> So basically we’re deciding if we can be together or not based on his exploration of faith. It’s tough though! I don’t know if we should cut it off so that he can focus on it more.... or take a break.... I want to get married and have a family with this man. But he wants to have all of his ducks in a row before we get married. (Smart guy) *but for me, I’ve got my ducks all lined up and I’m ready to roll!*


 @Hollyhobbie, I think this paragraph is the telling part. I think YOU are ready to get married, and he is not. YOU "have your ducks in a row" (as you say) but his ducks are not in a row. He may very well be sincerely searching for his faith and/or his beliefs, but he is using that as a shield to say "I am not ready to marry you." So to my mind, here is the question FOR YOU: are you willing to commit to someone who is not willing to commit to you? Are you willing to commit to someone who may or may not ever quite find his own faith and beliefs? Are you willing to commit to someone who is maybe afraid of commitment? 

Trust me, difference CAN be worked out. You two could negotiate, reach an agreement about how to proceed, and then do what you both agreed to do. It's that easy on money, raising kids, everything. So you tell me...is this REALLY about his faith? Or is it more about you being "ready to roll" and he's not quite there yet?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Hollyhobbie,

What was the reason for his divorce? Did it have anything to do with his beliefs?

How old are the two of you?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

So, if I understand correctly, he is prepared to sacrifice his relationship with you if your faiths don't align. Basically, his faith is more important than you to him... do you really want to marry this man? I'm not religious, but...


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm not sure if two people having two different religious views can survive together.


Of course they can, it happens all the time.

Whether a specific couple will or not, is a different question.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> So, if I understand correctly, he is prepared to sacrifice his relationship with you if your faiths don't align. Basically, his faith is more important than you to him... do you really want to marry this man? I'm not religious, but...


That's the ideal of Christianity, putting God before all others. That doesn't mean they aren't compatible, but it does sound as if he is second guessing whether they are right for one another on some level.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> That's the ideal of Christianity, putting God before all others. That doesn't mean they aren't compatible, but it does sound as if he is second guessing whether they are right for one another on some level.


I grew up Catholic... never heard that we needed to put God before all others. On the contrary, you leverage your faith to help other people. Also, she is not asking him to give up his faith. That should be enough for him. This is my POV, but I suppose we can all interpret faiths and religions in different ways.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > That's the ideal of Christianity, putting God before all others. That doesn't mean they aren't compatible, but it does sound as if he is second guessing whether they are right for one another on some level.
> ...


It's a basic tenet of the new covenant.

Luke 14:26-27
Acts 5:29


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It's a basic tenet of the new covenant.
> 
> Luke 14:26-27
> Acts 5:29


okey dokey... still, I wouldn't want to marry someone who'd rather marry God than me... :laugh:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I don't think I'd wait around for my guy to determine if I'm good enough for him when he finally makes up his mind as to just what he believes. That could be a really long wait and is insulting besides. Tell him to give you a call if he decides you meet his standards and you'll see if you can fit him in.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

My concern is that he doesn't understand where or why he's going/searching; it just seems to be an open-ended sort of thing, and how do you know, when he thinks he's settled down, that he's really found THE place for him and isn't going to start "wandering" again? In a sense, he's been unfaithful in his faith. At some point you need to see the light, as it were, make the leap of faith and jump in.

And I'm saying this from the perspective of a Christian man. In a weird way, and I could be reading this completely wrong, there's a sort of hedonistic feel to what he's going through.

So where does this place you? Not very well, because you don't really know where he's going to end up, or if he's going to be constantly searching. You're looking for a commitment from a man who cannot commit to God. I'm not saying it would be bad if you were to marry a non-believer. I'm just saying it's dangerous to commit to an adult who's driving without a roadmap, just a rough sense of direction. 

Another way to look at it- if religion is the biggest thing in his life (which appears to be the case right now), and he doesn't know where he'll end up... what does that mean about his commitment to you? It's OK to place God above family providing you understand it's God's will that you take care of your family. But this guy might decide, after you've married and had kids, that his true calling is elsewhere.

Can someone more theologically apt help me out with this? Or tell me that I'm all wet? Thanks-


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> .
> 
> Can someone more theologically apt help me out with this? Or tell me that I'm all wet? Thanks-


What are you theologically looking for CO?


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> My concern is that he doesn't understand where or why he's going/searching; it just seems to be an open-ended sort of thing, and how do you know, when he thinks he's settled down, that he's really found THE place for him and isn't going to start "wandering" again? In a sense, he's been unfaithful in his faith. At some point you need to see the light, as it were, make the leap of faith and jump in.
> 
> And I'm saying this from the perspective of a Christian man. In a weird way, and I could be reading this completely wrong, there's a sort of hedonistic feel to what he's going through.
> 
> ...


You don't need theology - this is about two people and their relationship. Religion is not the problem - it's their differing personalities.

Having said that - this long time ex-Christian thinks you have it pretty much spot on.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

cp3o said:


> You don't need theology - this is about two people and their relationship. Religion is not the problem - it's their differing personalities.
> 
> Having said that - this long time ex-Christian thinks you have it pretty much spot on.





Tilted 1 said:


> What are you theologically looking for CO?


I should have left "theology" out of it completely. I was thinking maybe there's some category this guy falls into, endlessly looking for his place, the right church, the right doctrine. I'm out of my league on this; it's really not something I can relate to, but in a partner, it would be something I would find very difficult to deal with.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I should have left "theology" out of it completely. I was thinking maybe there's some category this guy falls into, endlessly looking for his place, the right church, the right doctrine. I'm out of my league on this; it's really not something I can relate to, but in a partner, it would be something I would find very difficult to deal with.


If he's really serious, and it seems he is, there is a real likelihood that he will never actually find a "home". Any seriously questioning reader of the Bible - all of it - realises that it is not a compilation of works written to be compatible. They reflect different personalities, different periods in time, different legal systems imposed by different rulers and are written to meet different agendas, different target markets etc.. 

There is no one, constant, harmonious god that emerges from the books chosen to be called the Bible - whichever of the several differing collections constitute the Bible one reads. I know a lot of clever people have spent years trying to square the circle - the truth is that, unless one is inside one's own square, the shape remains stubbornly round.

Searching for such a coherent, consistent god is bound to be an unsuccessful quest. Most people either give up and go with their particular local flow (which, ISTM, is a form of cultural observance rather than a religious one) or they do what I used to do at Woolworth's sweet counter in the 1950s - pick the offerings I like and reject the ones I don't. 

I get the feeling this guy is (because he is cussedly honest?) unwilling/unable to take either route.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

cp3o said:


> If he's really serious, and it seems he is, there is a real likelihood that he will never actually find a "home". Any seriously questioning reader of the Bible - all of it - realises that it is not a compilation of works written to be compatible. They reflect different personalities, different periods in time, different legal systems imposed by different rulers and are written to meet different agendas, different target markets etc..
> 
> There is no one, constant, harmonious god that emerges from the books chosen to be called the Bible - whichever of the several differing collections constitute the Bible one reads. I know a lot of clever people have spent years trying to square the circle - the truth is that, unless one is inside one's own square, the shape remains stubbornly round.
> 
> ...


3rd option:

Insist that their interpretation is the only correct one and form a cult.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Marduk said:


> I think that different spiritual beliefs don't matter, unless believing the same way really matters to one or both of you.
> 
> My wife was raised in a fundamentalist muslim household. I was raised in a theoretically protestant household, where I only went to church for weddings and funerals. But we had a bible that I read often as a child.
> 
> ...


Some people base their lives on their faith, some have faith but have other pivots to hang onto. 
For someone like me, I would not have dated anyone who was not a Christian or had no real interest in Christianity. it would simply not occur in my mind do date such a person. So I set out to find the right person for the job. I found him and it worked. I have friends who found theirs and experienced total disasters. 

Marriage is an interesting institution is that if can assume a dynamic of its own. A lot of faith mix couples are very successful as I have seen hving lived in several countries now. 

Divorce is 3-5% higher in Churches than in non believers.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

It's always interesting to hear someone who is bitter about Christianity attempt to explain it with authority


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@Hollyhobbie

I'm going to run something by you that I don't think has been brought up. 
With your boyfriend seeking to be more immersed in religion, he will eventually connect with people of a like mind. How like-minded can be anything from a few shared beliefs to a brain-washed obsession. Are you prepared for him sharing his most sacred moments with people other than you or do you plan to fake it and go along for his sake? Those will be your two obvious choices. I've been there and done that, got the T-shirt, but when my wife immersed herself in her religion we had been together 20 years and she assumed I would go right along, but never looked back when I didn't until it all came to a head (I have a thread here about some of that. If interested click on my name and then "threads started by"). At the moment I think we have met a compromise and things have smoothed out. It can work, but if I had been confronted with this situation in our dating stage I would likely have moved on. Just my hard-earned two cents. Good luck and don't bs yourself, be true to yourself instead, but be aware that there will be more facets to your two's mismatch than you could ever predict.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

justlistening said:


> It's always interesting to hear someone who is bitter about Christianity attempt to explain it with authority


It's also interesting/ironic to hear a Christian get all judgy ... just sayin'.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

So suppose he picks a religion and you agree to follow it, so you go off happily together. What are the odds he picks a different one down the road, and insists you follow it now? How would you feel if that happened?

I can't answer either of these questions for you, the first one you know him better than I do, the second one, you know you better than I do.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

attheend02 said:


> 3rd option:
> 
> Insist that their interpretation is the only correct one and form a cult.


I don't get the feeling that this guy thinks he's correct - merely that he is unable to evade the awareness that all the available options are incorrect. (A position with which, FWIW, I cannot but concur).


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

justlistening said:


> It's always interesting to hear someone who is bitter about Christianity attempt to explain it with authority


That's it?

Just


> It's always interesting to hear someone who is bitter about Christianity attempt to explain it with authority


Interesting is good - but perhaps even more so though if those who regard the explanation as revealing bitterness produce an argument to justify their, as yet unsupported-by-reason, response.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

OP, what do you believe about Christianity? And what does your BF believe?

Although many groups call themselves "Christians" they don't all believe the basic tenents of mainstream Christianity and some that do, add lots of other "rules" that they claim are based on Bible verses, but are extreme and taken out of context, and may even come from extra books that the insist one must have. There can be some significant extrabiblical beliefs that are actually a huge deal, and can influence one's life on a day-to-day basis.

Conflicts can arise because some things can be seen as idolatry and out right apostacy by different Christian sects. Some religions don't readily mix in the same home when both spouses are very devout and not nominal:

Catholicism
Pentacostal
United Church of Christ
Messianic Judaism (Christians who want to follow the Old Testament Laws but believe in Jesus as the Messiah)
Mennonite
Amish
Baptist/Evangelical/Lutheran/Presbyterian

These all believe the basic premise of God the Father, Jesus is God in the flesh and the Holy Spirit is God/Jesus in the Spirit.
They differ on how they walk out their faith in the day to day. All but Catholics believe that you can go directly to God in prayer without needing an intermediary (Mary, a Priest, a Saint)
Some believe that you must do certain things to remain holy (clothing choices, Sacraments, abstaining from certain foods, etc.), while others believe that belief in Jesus alone makes you Holy and that his Holy Spirit will guide you in what to do.

Some groups call themselves "Christian" but actually don't believe the basic tenants that are agreed upon by all the mainline Christian churches. One believes that Jesus isn't the son of God, but is the brother of Lucifer (Satan), among other things (not in the Bible, but in their extra book) Another keeps predicting the end of the world, and has their own version of the Bible. Another believes in polygamy, and another believes that teachers of the Bible can not ever marry.

Stick to Religions that use the actual Bible, regardless of the translation. Many devout men put their heads together to translate the Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek, and then again from Greek to English. A translation written by only one man can be questionable. Just make sure that a Church you want to be a part of doesn't insist that there is only one true translation, nor do they make you buy an extra book to supplement the Bible, because that will be a red flag.

What you and your boyfriend really need to do is what another poster said: read the Bible together, while visiting Churches. Read what the Bible actually says, and find a church that teaches that. Reading the Book of John together or at least individually at the same time, has already been suggested and is an excellent idea.

I'm wondering why you are following your boyfriend around to churches. Are you curious about Jesus and God? Faith is personal. There is an old saying that there are no grandchildren in heaven. One only goes to heaven because of one's own decision to accept God's gift of Jesus's atoning death and resurrection. Make sure that you are going to church because you want to know more about Christianity, and not that you just want to marry your boyfriend so you'll jump through whatever hoops you need to in order to convince him that you are right for him.

It is great that your boyfriend is seeking, and as long as you are also seeking and not just going along to keep him happy, the two of you will, with prayer, Bible reading, and discernment find a church that suits you both. God Bless you!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Adelais said:


> Stick to Religions that use the actual Bible, regardless of the translation. Many devout men put their heads together to translate the Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek, and then again from Greek to English. A translation written by only one man can be questionable. Just make sure that a Church you want to be a part of doesn't insist that there is only one true translation, nor do they make you buy an extra book to supplement the Bible, because that will be a red flag.


Wisdom level: 100.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Adelais said:


> OP, what do you believe about Christianity? And what does your BF believe?
> 
> Although many groups call themselves "Christians" they don't all believe the basic tenents of mainstream Christianity and some that do, add lots of other "rules" that they claim are based on Bible verses, but are extreme and taken out of context, and may even come from extra books that the insist one must have. There can be some significant extrabiblical beliefs that are actually a huge deal, and can influence one's life on a day-to-day basis.


 Can't argue with this - but then those that are not "mainstream" will produce arguments that they think show "mainstream" to be wrong, and _vice-versa_ of course. It is a simple truism that size is a measure of success - not truth.


> Conflicts can arise because some things can be seen as idolatry and out right apostacy by different Christian sects. Some religions don't readily mix in the same home when both spouses are very devout and not nominal:
> 
> Catholicism
> Pentacostal
> ...


 They differ - but they all believe they are more right than those they differ from. Maybe one is??????


> Some groups call themselves "Christian" but actually don't believe the basic tenants that are agreed upon by all the mainline Christian churches. One believes that Jesus isn't the son of God, but is the brother of Lucifer (Satan), among other things (not in the Bible, but in their extra book) Another keeps predicting the end of the world, and has their own version of the Bible. Another believes in polygamy, and another believes that teachers of the Bible can not ever marry.


 OK - this demonstrates that, once he has learned enough rationally to discard all the non-Christian religions (currently a bigger people base than Christianity's) and then, should he do so, all the cults of Christianity (those with extra but equal books etc.) he needs to understand what he means by "Christian" before he starts trying to find a Christian group that agrees with him. 

Generally the concept is that of "one who seeks to follow the teachings and the example of the Christ" - presumably as revealed in the four accepted Gospels (there are many others). Since this includes "sell all you have and give it to the poor", "desert your family and follow me" and "take no thought for the morrow" (so no pension fund, no house, no savings, no vehicle (or bus-pass), no change of clothes, no medicines, no subscriptions, no job, no education, no bank account/credit card, no fridge or freezer, no provision for wife, children, loved ones) etc. he may spend a long time searching; why do you think the instruction to ask for your "daily bread" was included! 

Either that or downgrade to the contrary but slightly less arduous comforts offered by Paul/Timothy _et al_ and/or the OT writers.

Or...go with the idea that some very wise, and some very venal, people had direct revelations from God which invalidate His Son's (misreported?) teaching

Or.... decide that saying the right words in the right order once gets him into Heaven and nothing he does after that will stop him going through the pearly gates. (My mother died convinced that we would meet in Heaven - albeit I would have short trousers, Dumbo ears and a squeaky voice - I was eight when I did the deed)


> Stick to Religions that use the actual Bible,


 Again - It isn't quite that simple - see the article from Wikipedia below - he must first decide which is the "actual " Bible - (I don't have the erudition to even start!) 

_Different religious groups include different books in their biblical canons, in varying orders, and sometimes divide or combine books. ...............

Christian Bibles range from the 73 books of the Catholic Church canon, the 66 books of the canon of some denominations or the 80 books of the canon of other denominations of the Protestant Church, to the 81 books of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church canon. The first part of Christian Bibles is the Greek Old Testament, which contains, at minimum, the .... 24 books of the Tanakh but divided into 39 books and ordered differently. The second part is the Greek New Testament, containing 27 books; the four canonical gospels, Acts of the Apostles, 21 Epistles or letters and the Book of Revelation.

The Catholic Church and Eastern Christian churches hold that certain deuterocanonical books and passages are part of the Old Testament canon. The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Christian churches may have minor differences in their lists of accepted books. The list given here for these churches is the most inclusive: if at least one Eastern church accepts the book it is included here. The King James Bible—which has been called "the most influential version of the most influential book in the world, in what is now its most influential language" and which in the United States is the most used translation, being still considered a standard among Protestant churches and being used liturgically in the Orthodox Church in America—contains 80 books: 39 in its Old Testament, 14 in its Apocrypha, and 27 in its New Testament._

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible_

Hopefully the OP now realises that


> "Any advice, thoughts. I don’t want to rush him, because I think that would be selfish and I do think he’s right, *we need to get this sorted out.* He said if we do get married in the future he just wants us to have the best odds of success."


is a taller order than she realised initially.

Unless he goes right back to basics he will be jumping in somewhere along the many branching road. What if he skips the earlier stuff and commences after the "truth" has diverged from the main route he has joined?

There may be some sort of deity-related truth out there - but I suggest that it is not going to be found by reason and logic. Since the first step is to gather all the data on all the various wide-angle concepts and then narrow them down - then decide which is agreeable, then try to find a group that offers that agreement - life isn't long enough. 

I mean - you don't even get to the varieties of Christianity until you have *rationally* rejected all the differing forms of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc. etc.. Then where do you fit Unitarianism - "a Christian theological movement named for its belief that the God in Christianity is one person". 

If he is really, really determined not to give up - can't do what everyone else does - either take a leap in the dark and go with those around him (it is oft repeated that 80% of those in the world who claim a religious allegiance claim the same as did their parents) or give up and become an agnostic atheist I don't think he will ever attain the satisfaction that would enable him to demand that you agree with him and become his wife. 

Basically, if you want to get married, - either he gives up or you do - sorry - but that is how I see it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Hollyhobbie said:


> Thank you for your thought. No, we do not have children. We started this relationship with brutal honestly. We made a promise to be honest with each other even if it hurt and we’ve certainly fulfilled that. I’ve asked him if he’s basically wanting to end it... and that it’s okay if so, it’s his life and he needs to focus on what makes him happy. So maybe what you said is true! It totally could be. From what I know of him, he would be devastated if we split however I do think he would have the courage to do it.


Brutal honestly needs to be part of marriage. Concerning religion/faith, it is personal to each individual. My W reads the Bible every day. She conducts her own Bible studies. The music piping through the house is usually Christian praise and worship. She really enjoys church. She grew up with it. Christian school, etc. She is not however a holy roller. We have our good times. Then we have our REALLY good times together if you catch my drift. I was not brought up the same way as my W. However, I went to an Episcopalian church. I'm certainly not anywhere near to a personal relationship with Jesus as my W. This does not cause any issues for us. We both understand and digest the teachings of the Bible in different ways. We will be married 26 years this coming April. A greater understanding of each others want, needs and thoughts go much further than both being on the exact same page(every page) as the other. This is what makes us individuals.

My W has a t-shirt and on the front of it is states, "I love Jesus but I cuss a little." And she does and she also knows the Bible inside and out. Well rounded.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

cp3o said:


> Adelais said:
> 
> 
> > OP, what do you believe about Christianity? And what does your BF believe?
> ...


I'm impressed. I don't believe I've ever encountered someone with such obvious disdain for Christianity.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

justlistening said:


> I'm impressed. I don't believe I've ever encountered someone with such obvious disdain for Christianity.


It's not just Christianity - it's anything that is without rational validation which is used, however guilelessly - however naively, by playing on natural fears and emotions to suppress, suborn, subject, steal from and enslave human beings.

As to Christianity - if there is a deity of some sort, and he's in deep hiding if there is, he must be appalled by the stupidity, the greed, the incompetence, the irrationality and the ignorance that his worshippers attribute to him. 

That's enough for here - I'll respond to PMs if anyone wants to discuss, teach, learn, argue, enlighten me or save my unevidenced soul etc..

And I do, genuinely, think that the OP is likely to die a spinster if she waits for a real seeker to arrive at a stable conclusion - I've known a few and they can't do it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

cp3o said:


> It's not just Christianity - it's anything that is without rational validation which is used, however guilelessly - however naively, by playing on natural fears and emotions to suppress, suborn, subject, steal from and enslave human beings.
> 
> As to Christianity - if there is a deity of some sort, and he's in deep hiding if there is, he must be appalled by the stupidity, the greed, the incompetence, the irrationality and the ignorance that his worshippers attribute to him.
> 
> ...


For me Christianity is not so much playing on natural fears, emotions to suppress...etc. Religion has done that. Man made rules. For me Christianity is a basic way of being a genuine human being to those around us. Treat other as I would like to be treated. 



> As to Christianity - if there is a deity of some sort, and he's in deep hiding if there is, he must be appalled by the stupidity, the greed, the incompetence, the irrationality and the ignorance that his worshippers attribute to him.


The Bible has many references and stories of His disappointment with His people.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

On the OPs original question, what matters is compatibility whether its religion or sex. They don't need the same beliefs, but they need compatible beliefs.

No one should be expected to change their religious beliefs for a relationship.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The devil does love religion. 



cp3o said:


> It's not just Christianity - it's anything that is without rational validation which is used, however guilelessly - however naively, by playing on natural fears and emotions to suppress, suborn, subject, steal from and enslave human beings.
> 
> As to Christianity - if there is a deity of some sort, and he's in deep hiding if there is, he must be appalled by the stupidity, the greed, the incompetence, the irrationality and the ignorance that his worshippers attribute to him.
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

uhtred said:


> The devil does love religion.


^^^yes


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I will say, the atheists of the world are one up on y'all when it comes to this problem. You never hear two non-believers arguing over their lack of belief. The doctrine of "I don't believe god exists" doesn't open itself up to the problems of The People's Front of Judea vs. The Judean People's Front.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Cletus said:


> I will say, the atheists of the world are one up on y'all when it comes to this problem. You never hear two non-believers arguing over their lack of belief. The doctrine of "I don't believe god exists" doesn't open itself up to the problems of The People's Front of Judea vs. The Judean People's Front.


Very true lol. I've never heard two.professing atheists argue over the right way to not believe.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Dear OP, what harm would be done if you joined him in exploring your (fledgling?) Christian faith? (Is that the right word?)

Maybe you could start with a prayer right now- “Father, I love this man and if it is your will that he should lead me to You then take my hand and show me the way!”

If you do love this man and want to support him then perhaps you should “explore” it with him? Like Jesus’ first miracle he asked others to bring the water (which he turned to wine) you should “bring your water” by praying and reading. I found the logic of “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis irrefutable. I also thought the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas very powerful and non-theological bolsters of my faith (still fledgling).

What’s of more significance in life than to ask “why are we here”... really the heart of this exploration.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Cletus said:


> I will say, the atheists of the world are one up on y'all when it comes to this problem. You never hear two non-believers arguing over their lack of belief. The doctrine of "I don't believe god exists" doesn't open itself up to the problems of The People's Front of Judea vs. The Judean People's Front.


You answered the OP question in a way. If the belief, non-belief or on the fence belief causes arguments then the relationship will fail eventually.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I found the logic of “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis irrefutable.


 You may not be surprised to know that I binned "Mere Christianity" after reading the first 50 or so pages and random dipping the rest. 

As I recall, Lewis's logic is OK if you accept without question his basic premise about his God. To my recollection, like so many pro-religion writers, he never, ever, addressed the question as to whether a god exists - merely assumed that his listeners (UK radio audiences sheltering from German bombs etc.) wouldn't question it either. 
Many think Scientology's nonsense is very logical, once one has blindly accepted the existence of Xenu etc. etc..


> What’s of more significance in life than to ask “why are we here”... really the heart of this exploration.


If by "we" you mean us as individuals the answer is sexual reproduction. 

If by "we" you mean us as humanity the answer is evolution.

If by "we" you mean the universe the answer is that we don't know for sure. 

It is pretty difficult to question that a singularity expanded rapidly and physics followed. Earlier than the "big bang" - we don't know, we don't even know if there was an "earlier". I understand that some academically credible recent work is suggesting that there may have been a (perhaps an infinite number of?) previous expansion(s) and contraction(s). 

However - the lack of a first rate, rationally certain, evidence-based explanation does not affect the lack of validity appertaining to a myriad of evidence-free, reason-unsupported third-rate guesses - including the one that any of us chooses to prefer.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

uhtred said:


> The devil does love religion.


So - did the devil invent religion rather than religion the devil?:grin2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MY first husband wasn't a Christian, but I wasn't really serious about my faith at that time. By the time I was divorced after a 25 year marriage and thinking and hoping that I may marry again, my faith was far stronger and more important to me. I knew that this time I would only date and marry a man who shared my faith. 
God is very wise when He says that we are not to be unequally yoked to a non believer. If we are serious about our faith then we will want to share that with our spouse and bring the children up to know and love God. So many things are different when you are a committed Christian, for one you save sex for marriage and don't live together, so that for one makes you entirely incompatible with nearly all non believers. Your whole outlook on life is different, your priorities are different, you want to pray together, go to church together, be part of the same church family.
I cant imagine what life with someone who didn't share my faith would be like now. My husband and I are on the same wave length and path. I have friends whose husband aren't Christians and they do struggle.

If he does find Jesus and make that commitment and you don't, he may have a very hard decision to make.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> MY first husband wasn't a Christian, but I wasn't really serious about my faith at that time. By the time I was divorced after a 25 year marriage and thinking and hoping that I may marry again, my faith was far stronger and more important to me. I knew that this time I would only date and marry a man who shared my faith.
> God is very wise when He says that we are not to be unequally yoked to a non believer. If we are serious about our faith then we will want to share that with our spouse and bring the children up to know and love God. So many things are different when you are a committed Christian, for one you save sex for marriage and don't live together, so that for one makes you entirely incompatible with nearly all non believers.


There are one heck of a lot of married Christians who have experienced sex prior to marriage, and have survived intact. And I would consider many of them "committed" Christians, not nominal. I don't think sex outside of marriage is an appropriate litmus test for ones' faith.


> Your whole outlook on life is different, your priorities are different, you want to pray together, go to church together, be part of the same church family.
> I cant imagine what life with someone who didn't share my faith would be like now. My husband and I are on the same wave length and path. I have friends whose husband aren't Christians and they do struggle.
> 
> If he does find Jesus and make that commitment and you don't, he may have a very hard decision to make.


Ironically, I think she might settle down and find Jesus before he does. If he ever does, which I kind of doubt. Obviously, I'm making assumptions about his character based upon people I've known, and my assumptions may be entirely wrong.

I do know some couples who have survived very well in mixed-faith marriages, notably Jewish/Christian. I'll admit they've surprised me. And even among committed married Christians, our paths may take slightly different twists and turns at different times of our lives, testing our resolve. What matters is not just where we end up, but what's in our heart.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> There are one heck of a lot of married Christians who have experienced sex prior to marriage, and have survived intact. And I would consider many of them "committed" Christians, not nominal. I don't think sex outside of marriage is an appropriate litmus test for ones' faith.
> Ironically, I think she might settle down and find Jesus before he does. If he ever does, which I kind of doubt. Obviously, I'm making assumptions about his character based upon people I've known, and my assumptions may be entirely wrong.
> 
> I do know some couples who have survived very well in mixed-faith marriages, notably Jewish/Christian. I'll admit they've surprised me. And even among committed married Christians, our paths may take slightly different twists and turns at different times of our lives, testing our resolve. What matters is not just where we end up, but what's in our heart.


Yes there are a lot of Christians who disobey God when He says not to have sex outside marriage, and there are some who disobey Him when He says not to be unequally yoked in marriage. All that means is that we sometimes choose to go our own way and not His. Not a wise decision. I have learnt over decades that He always says thing for a reason and for our own good, and that He is always wise. To go against Him is always a bad idea.


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