# You'll need an open mind for this one...



## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

So I met this guy on this forum. Rest assured, there's nothing going on. He's married, I'm married, we just found some common ground and have been chatting about it since. I have no interest in him romantically, intimately, sexually, nothing. 

So here's the deal... he had some mixed emotions about his wife hooking up with a younger guy. At one time he would feel so excited about it, at another, he was a little angry about it. I encouraged him to go one way or the other with it and be happy with his choice. He did and he's reaping the benefits of his wife getting with someone else. He's one of those guys that enjoys that. I think that's super awesome.

Problem is, that intrigues me so much. I have always wanted to be with two men at the same time. My husband knows of my desires and we've tried to set it up, but it's not just going to happen with anyone. So talking to this guy about him giving his wife the best of both worlds is making me jealous!!! 

Now don't go judging... come on, be honest... everyone has had thoughts about another person. Do you think as humans we're really supposed to be monogamous?? Don't answer that out loud. We are animals after all. The whole idea of polyamory intrigues me as well. 

I have no one on the side and no one with my sights on either. But my husband is more the "traditional" one woman one man thing. I feel like I'm missing out on something in my life. This other guy is so understanding about his wife being with someone else, shoot, she even compares the other guy to him and he's fine with that!! I just want to have sex with someone else. I don't want to forge a relationship and leave my man, I just want sex!! He's had sex with another woman and did he fall in love with her?? No. I'm just a little jealous and wish my husband could offer me the same or close to the same. I can't even manage to muster the threesome I've always wanted, and to think seriously about it is incredibly depressing. 

I just want some open minded thoughts. Please, no religious stuff, I'm not into that.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

To each there own, however you are in a partnership and everything you do should be okay with both of you. Just because your husband cheated doesn't mean that you deserve to have him go against something he doesn't feel comfortable with.

That said if he agrees then all the power to you.

draconis


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

well Bhappy that is tough and I ahve found out that there are allot of couples out there that one would be interested, the other is not.

Like I would do a thresome with my wife and a male friend if she was interested, but she has made it clear she is not, so I am not going to pressure into it or even bring it up anymore.

Right now I think you are in the "lust stage" knowing about this guys adventure, of course he could be lying to you, just to maybe bed you at some point.

The issue is your hubby, he has to be comfortable with it, he has to be on board a 110% because it will eat away at him, if he does this just for you and is not into it. It will end up destroying your marriage if he is not fully into it.

Now I see you live in PA, not sure what area. If you live near Philly, I believe there are some "swinger clubs" in that area.

I suggest that you and your hubby attend one of these swinger clubs, But make the pact with him, that you will do nothing without his consent, or vice versa,, set some ground rules.

My wife were curious and we went to one to "check it out" while we did not become swingers, we enjoyed being in front of others and watching others, It really turned my wife on. 

So while we did not swap or do a threesome, we had wild sex with ourselves, she does not mind dressing up sexy and going with me to the club. 

Maybe this would be a good starting point for you both. Go set the rules of " just to "check it out" a 1 time thing. Just have fun with each other and take int he sights and stuff. 

After then decide what your options are. Basically for us it's my wife's call, if she wants to swap with another couple or try a threesome all she has to say it. Until that day I will respect her decision and not pressure her in anyway for or fashion.

Talk it over with him, see what he says. If you do go I would go on a "couples night" or a club that has "couples only & single women" ones that allow single males is bad and it is like vultures.

Best of luck, but if you were to do it I think your hubby would have a hard time accepting it, would you share him with one of your girlfriends?? just curious.


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Ok, sorry I didn't mean to imply that my husband had cheated... that is something he would never do even if I couldn't ever have sex again due to medical reasons or something off the wall. He would never ever stray, ever. He was with another woman during our time together and it was consentual with all parties. It was INCREDIBLY stimulating and I very much enjoyed watching him with her. We all really enjoyed our times together. That's what I want in return. I want him to enjoy me with someone else. 

GASoccerman... what makes you want a threesome with another man rather than another woman?? Some men have that in them and others do not. I have it in me that I thoroughly enjoyed him being with another woman, but he's lacking the same with me being with another man. 

I guess what really has me agitated is that he's a selfish man. He has a lot of hobbies and I am always second best to them... ALWAYS. I know I'm not his number one. Hunting and softball come first all the time every time. 

Oh yeah, another major key point here is that his libido is LOW. He is by far not your average man. He doesn't care if he gets sex or not. He is not the type to want it every night. When he's busy doing his hobbies, he won't even think about sex. If you read my first post on this whole forum, I might mention that sex is always on his terms... when he wants it. Never ever when I want it. I approach him and he denies me. Twelve years of this and I shut down. I will no longer approach him for sex, no matter how badly I want it b/c I'd rather deal with the frustration of wanting/needing it than the pain of rejection. 

So this is how I see it... he has his hobbies and thinks nothing of me. He never asks me for permission to do the things he likes to do. He never asks permission to go play ball or spend countless hours shopping for softball bats. He never asks permission to walk out the door to go hunting or do all things involved with hunting. He never asks permission from me to neglect me sexually. Why would it be so wrong for me to have a man on the side to take care of my sexual needs that my husband doesn't seem to give an inkling of a thought about? 

GA... sure I'm in lust. But I've wanted this situation for 15 years now. I suppress it as much as possible, but it still comes up every now and then. And every time I try not to think about it and just shove it back under the rug. It's still there. It still hurts to walk on it. I just feel like I'm missing out on my youth. 

Thanks you guys for your open mindedness... I appreciate it.


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## Healing (May 30, 2008)

I see where you're coming from now.

Not that it isn't true that 2 guys and 1 girl have always been one of your fantasies, but a lot of it seems to be fueled by the perceived selfishness on your husband's part.

I can identify with that. In many ways you living 15 years like this makes me afraid because I have been living 2 years like this and I am rapidly going nuts.

Personally I'm not really adventurous enough to want to try having 2 men at the same time, and also I wouldn't have wanted or enjoyed seeing him with another woman with me (esp now after the EA, seriously...). I don't think you getting this arrangement will "solve" any problems with you and your husband. In fact because he is so self-absorbed you may end up drawing closer to the other man, and if he isn't fully comfortable with you being with someone else it will just cause tension.

Do you think perhaps you just want to do it partially to "get back" at your husband for being so selfish and to feel like you are thinking of your own needs for a change and not always his?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

It is more socially acceptable to have two women, thjen two men.

draconis


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Healing...

True to an extent that some of this is fueled by his selfishness. I just think that a wife should be your number one priority. I make him my priority. I always put him first. Yes, maybe now I am thinking about myself a little more. I am a sexual woman and he is not a sexual man. This makes for a very odd combination and very stressful as well. But it's also bad b/c he's the one with the say so of when we do it. Not me with the higher libido. I wish someone would understand this pain, it can be debilitating.

Here's how I see it... he has hobbies on the side. Hobbies that dont' involve me (sure I can sit at his softball games, but I can't do anything about his obsession with shopping for bats). Hobbies that take time from our marriage. Hobbies that interrupt his already unstable sex drive. So I see these hobbies as "the other woman". 

Would me having a man on the side just for sexual purposes be such a bad thing if I'm still committed to my love to him? Somehow this all makes perfect sense in my head.


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

Bhappy3,

Just wondering if your wedding vows included the line "forsaking all others." How old are you? Why did you even get married in the first place? There are plenty of selfish, noncommital single guys who would like to have a series of one-night stands, threesomes, orgies, you name it. You could have stayed single and "dated," getting a lot of action (not that I condone it but... making a point).

You seem confused. You say you love your husband but want to be intimate with another man. Also, the fact that you stated (more than once, at that) that we are just animals is disturbing. I guess in your way of thinking, if we're all just animals then we have no moral obligation to one another, so if it feels good, do it, and it's okay. 

I don't see how, on God's earth, a woman can truly love her husband but want to give herself to another man, or vice versa. I think people just want the security blanket of a stable relationship while getting to live a wild, party life. Basically, wanting a threesome, whether it be the man that wants it or the woman, is just a way of saying, "Spouse, you're not enough for me, I need more, so we need to bring in help." It's the ultimate insult.

I think it's weird that a husband or wife would get off on seeing their husband or wife with another man. Just because both agree doesn't make it right. If you both agree to robbing a bank, that doesn't make it okay for the marriage just because there is mutual agreement. I know... the old humanistic argument... "But, robbing a bank is against the law." I know, I know. If tomorrow a law was passed making adultery illegal, would your desires magically disappear just because it was against the law?

It sounds like there are relationship issues anyway. I've never met a man not interested in sex, unless he had some major illness or there were such deep issues in the relationship that were unresolved that he found it hard to be attracted to his wife. Not to be stereotypical, but a man not interested in sex is so unusual that when it happens you should look for the reason why instead of accepting it as normal.

Animals are amoral, so if I'm an animal then I don't have to really answer to a higher power and my actions are good if they make me feel good. The law of the jungle applies, if I'm an animal.

We're not animals, but that doesn't mean people can't act like animals sometimes.

It takes far more effort and maturity to work out the problems in a marriage, to find out what's wrong and be willing to look in the mirror, so to speak, and change, than it is to get some illicit action on the side.

A real lover isn't someone who goes from person to person, having sex. Any dog or other animal can do that. A real lover is someone who can cultivate a relationship with a partner for life. True love does what's best for the other person, and places the other person's best interests at heart.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

DBJ, thanks for not slamming her with the religious notions, I guess you couldn't help yourself to "correct her"

She is jsut basically thinking out loud and trying to figure out what is going on her mind. She specifically asked not to be bashed, but you did it anyway.



Bhappy, Well I would surely love two women and me....But I would also like to please my wife beyond her wildest dreams. We have discussed it and she has several "rules" that would have to be followed, certain things she does not like. Which would have to be set forth with anyone we were to choose.

My point is to give my wife the wildest craziest nigth of her life, where she would totally let go and just absorb it. Basically just a wild night of ectasy. Now will it ever happen??? doubtful, as I said she is not interested, or at least she says she is not, only she really knows.

I am not a jealous person, I used to be when I was a HS student, I learned to get over it, because it would only drive me crazy in the long run, I learned, I can't worry about "what IF?" I worry about "what is" and deal with it.

I ahve been cheatedd on in the past and that was part of my growth and acceptance.

I can't speak of your husband, only he can, you can only communicate with him your desires. But if he is not into it, I am sure it will be a disaster, he has to be interested.

But I enjoy pleasing my wife, not every guy is like me.


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey dbj... still believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny?? 

Since this animal ain't answering to your "higher power" then that makes your post void. 



GA, yup, I used to be jealous as well. I was never cheated on though, at least not that I knew of at the time, and it's not confirmed now either, just a hunch I have. I guess I'm not jealous with my husband when it comes to other women b/c I know know KNOW he's not going anywhere. He does have high morals and it's just not something he would ever do. I am very jealous when it comes to his hobbies though. Like I said, his hunting is "the other woman" to me. But that's b/c she gets all his time and attention and I get to sit back and wait for the sloppy seconds. 

I am just trying to think out loud here and sort things out. I've typed and typed and typed in my journal, but that doesn't answer me back. I don't want to "cheat" behind his back. I want his permission to do what I feel I need to do. We've been together 13 years... of course things get dusty and you want to look around at others. But that doesnt' mean I love him any less! 

I so tie the hunting together with the sex. I get less sex when he's fully immersed in his hobbies. So why, if he's allowed to neglect me like that can't I just go out and have meaningless sex? He doesn't like to be bothered with me when he's involved. So why can't someone else take the reins while he's so busy? 

We saw a counselor for a little bit, until we realized that he wasn't making any difference. But anyway, the counselor put it like this... when my husband plays softball with our daughter, just in the yard, he has to play on her level. When I have sex with my husband, I have to do it on his level. The only freaking problem with that is that my husband then gets to go play softball with his adult friends when he's done playing with our daughter. What do I get to do? I still have to play on his level... forever! bah

This is so frustrating.


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## 33_momma_of4 (Jun 25, 2008)

I personally feel if he would put more effort into your relationship, maybe you would't feel the desire to be with another man. 

I also feel like bringing another man/woman into your bedroom and intimate affairs isn't a solution of any kind. Sex brings so many emotions and feelings. I personally, would love for my husband and only my husband to bring me to the peak of those. 

On another note. My husband also has a very low libido. He has high blood pressure and depression, and takes meds for both. I often wonder if any man out there can go as long as him w/o sex. Its frustrating for me. Even with my medical condition, there is nothing wrong with my libido. However, I want quality over quanity! And if can't deliver...I'd much rather wait. Have you had many sexual partners in life?


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## mike123gallagher (Mar 28, 2008)

This is a tough one! 

Sure, you are in a partnership.. you and hubby should consider each others feelings, communicate, etc.. . But if you are unhappy with your sex life something needs to be done about it. I don't get people... the general population seems to think if one partner isn't into sex the other should just understand.... like sex isn't that important once you are married.

Look at it this way, if your partner was an alcoholic and was neglecting you and your family people would advice you to do something about it, and maybe even consider divorce... but being neglected sexually isn't a big deal... "what are you a perv, a sl~t.. come on, you are in a marriage just deal with it".. I don't think so!

And from a male perspective, and a human being (not just an animal.. ha ha), your hubby is insane for not embracing an open minded, adventurours woman like yourself. After all, you are talking about inlcuding him, experiencing this with him.. not cheating!


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

grass is not greener. we all have fantasies - leave at that .
fantasies.
i have looked into many of the things u have said. and believe me its not a pretty picture as you imagine . 
if your the jealous type - really steer clear of this, you wil hound yourself with questions after the event and it could prove disatrous.
try and reinvent your sex life, this can be done.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Nothing like a great sex thread to pull you out of a 3pm stupor.

I have an open mind. I understand that many people have no desire or wish to challenge and push the boundaries of how intimate relationships are defined or managed. I also accept that those people may have deep, loving, fulfilling relationships.

I also recognize that there are folks that have, and maintain, deep, loving, fulfilling relationships by virtue of the fact that they share their intimate experiences with others.

I maintain that the _idea_ of multiple partners is more exciting and free-wheeling, than the reality. Nobody decides to swing, or engage in a 3some without serious negotiations with their partner, or other parties to be included about physical and emotional boundaries prior to the throwdown.

I say talk to your husband. Talk about fantasies - share fantasies. Bridge that gap first, and then decide about taking the next step.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

mike123gallagher said:


> This is a tough one!
> 
> Sure, you are in a partnership.. you and hubby should consider each others feelings, communicate, etc.. . But if you are unhappy with your sex life something needs to be done about it. I don't get people... the general population seems to think if one partner isn't into sex the other should just understand.... like sex isn't that important once you are married.
> 
> ...



If he has a difference of opinion or a different set of morals you are forcing a life style. If I was an alcoholic should I expect my partner to be to please me so I don't have to drink alone?

It involves the two people in the relationship to decide what is best for them as individuals and as partners.

draconis


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Yep as Drac said, and I said earlier...

He HAS to be into it, 110% if not it will only be a problem down the line.

Keep talking about it and bring it up. Talk it over with him.

I told my wife she can invite Shania twain over anytime  She said sure no problem, why don't you invite Brad Pitt over as well....I told here ....Deal.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

well the lastest. shania twain is divorcing her husband , s officially single and from gossip collumns, brad pitt and ange living separate lives. so your dream just might come true.


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

Why does he have to be into it 110% when I don't have to be into his hunting and softball (which takes time and sex from me) at all %????? How fair is that?? So basically what I'm hearing is that it's ok for him to eat away at our marriage gradually, but it's not ok for me to fulfill my needs immediately??????? 

His hunting and softball are an obsessive lifestyle for him, but the family suffers as well. EVERYTHING revolves around those things. And the more I fight it and complain about it, the worse it gets. So that's acceptable?? My heart tells me not. 

Thanks Justean... I'm not jealous about other women. He's not going anywhere. It would take time from his obsessions. The grass was greener on the other side when we had another woman in the picture. The sex between he and I was phenominal. I'm sure it would be the same for me with another man. But for some reason, when it comes to my satisfaction, he gets pissed off about it. Fair? 

You see, for 12 years I was denied sex when I wanted it. It was always on his terms. I would approach him and he'd deny me, but then 20 minutes later he'd be ready and I was supposed to forget the pain of being denied and just do it. Well, the pain got to be too much for me. I finally hit a spot where I decided I'm not asking him for sex anymore. I would rather deal with the flames in my pants than the pain that he can inflict just by walking away from me. So this hurts pretty bad now too b/c I do not approach him for sex. He wonders how he's supposed to know that I want it. I can't answer that b/c I can't let him know b/c I'm afraid of denial again. I have slipped up a time or two and asked for it. The last time it happened, of course you can guess what he did... uh, not now, my dad is coming over soon. (it took his dad an hour to get here, he never just comes over in two minutes). So now what? A marriage isn't supposed to be like this!! I'm not supposed to be scared to approach him for sex!!! So now I've opened up a whole new jar of worms by not asking for sex... so many new dimensions I'm not familiar with. I guess basically I don't care anymore. I'm not actively pursuing anything with anyone else, but if something creeps up, I'm not going to stop it.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

justean, I'm working on the shania twain situation she has a open invite to my house  Apparently so does brad pitt :rofl:

Bhappy so does he have a brother at all? I wonder what would happen if you flirted with his brother or friend, or wore a see through top when they were around...lol


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

No brother and no friend that I would do anything with... they're all married. There is one guy that I wanted to do it with, but he's now got a g/f. Hmm, maybe that's where all this is coming from... the only guy we were prepared to do it with has a g/f and doesn't come around anymore.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i see where your at now, an old mate of my had the same scenario.
hubby has had a few threesomes. with his wifes best friend.
but whenever she mentioned a 3 some with a bloke, apparently he got nasty. it was alwalys no and i dont think they have til this day. but he still has his 3 somes. with her best friend.
tell me if im on the wrong track, - i wont take it personal.
i know where your coming from on the person who you could do it with. its because you knew that person, you found him attractive and you felt you could have fun and it would be safe.
why dont you try a swingers club. you dont have to take partners and they usually accept single women. 
i know what you mean by not approaching. your scared of the rejection.
i feel it too sometimes. but when your in the bedroom, why dont you just initiate. i used to get to a point of just lying in bed like an idiot, but desperate for sex.
waiting for the initiation sometimes never came. 
so i took this one the shoulders and just thought if i want it. im getting it.
i dont care if i initiate.


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

I feel like such an ass when I initiate something but he doesn't want it. Like I'm pushing him for it. A woman wants to know she is needed/wanted/desired. But how do you feel desired when the person you desire doesnt' desire you back? 

At least with cheap meaningless sex it will "appear" as though you're desired for a while! And then you can go home and get the emotional love you need. Problem solved. Plus your sex life will get hotter b/c you're experiencing something new and different.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

lets just say, if you initiated everytime, does he push you away everytime?
if he does thats a different matter.
well when im in your situation with my hubby, its lonely and exactly what you say - you dont feel important in the relationship, because and this does not have to revolve around sex. 
you dont in turn feel loved , needed and desired.
then you think whats the point of being in this relationship.
but and i promise this, you are no different to lots of other women i know and listen to. 
when this happens to me, all your feelings.
i just take diffrent approaches. examples.
one time i probably just want sex, so to get the desire if only for a little - ( i do the cheap meaningless sex ) bit
another time i might focus on myself and forget about the sex 
(dancing to loud music) normally helps me. i kinda look at it, im staying toned and i go back to healthy mode. 
another time, i might suggest we watch porn. ( raises the old eyebrows).
why dont you ask what he wants (ok you might know the answer to this one) but say one night you will do what he wants and you must say in the same sentence, you have to do this for me etc etc.,
or if i just want it, i go for it, just initiate.
i pretty much have "rejection days"
if hubby just too tired, or his back plays up (degenerative spine)
but i still dont class those as rejection days, because im just being sympathetic.
but he also has days with me, when i dont want to.


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## crusader (Jun 30, 2008)

To me experimentation and carnal desires are meant to be explored while single, dating and/or even in a long term relationship. Once we get married I think we then made a choice to become focused sexually on our spouse and not others. Of course this doesn't mean we can't talk about it and fantasize but I think if the act actually takes place another level is reached and the things that happen can quickly spiral out of control and not in a good way. It is hard for us as humans to take the emotions out of such acts and just look at it as a carnal desire and leave it at that and more times than not it seems to lead to troubles in the marriage.


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

I must be from another time and place.

Look, I wasn't trying to "blast" anyone. If someone is about to do something that is quite possibly very destructive to their relationship and they ask for an opinion or advice, then why wouldn't any caring person try to steer them away from the path of hurt and destruction?

We can delude ourselves all we want, but you cannot have a truly intimate relationship like it's really supposed to be if you bring another man or woman into the relationship.

Let's see, humanists and moral relativists, if I've got this straight: Adultery (having sex with another man or woman other than the spouse) is only adultery if it's done without the spouse's consent? Otherwise, it's a fantasy or a threesome? So, what if I want to commit suicide but I ask you to pull the trigger? Is it no longer murder because I wanted you to do it?

Boy, some people really don't like to hear that the Emporer doesn't have any clothes on. I just call it like it is. You guys want to go on getting married and then acting like your single, having it both ways, need to get off a fence. Some people need to just grow up, and let their maturity level catch up with their age level at least.

I wish everyone the best, but if you post a question and want an answer, don't shoot me for stating something that you don't agree with. You don't fix a marriage by bringing in a surrogate lover; you work on your marriage and you're patient and truly look out for the other spouse's best interest. That's real love. That's what a mature person would do.

Love and peace.
DJ


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

DJ ~ Although in general I agree with you because it works for me. I don't want another invovled in my relationship even in sex, it doesn't mean that it might not be right for other people.

Your morals and values are just that, yours. The best we can hope for is that who you spend your life with has the same values.

It is always good to have more than a group of "yes men" giving advise. Often I play devil advocate on the forums. But I don't force my beliefs on others and that is where much of the attacks came from.

If you believe in the bible then you know that only God can judge others. Also, it is clear that we all have mistakes in the eyes of the higher powers.

ANyways, although you have your opinion which you are entitled too, so do others.

draconis


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

So this seems like it really got off track. I thought I had appropriately named the thread, perhaps I should have named it something similar such as "open minds only". I am looking for opinions from open minded people such as myself. I am surely trying to avoid the religious aspect of this b/c that is not who I am and I tend to go against the flow of society. What is society to tell me how to live my life and what I should feel and what I should do? Certainly I have humanist values... of course we can't go out hurting people without consequence. 

My marriage seems to have some issues, as all marriages do. My husband and I are trying to work these things out. I wish I could get into all the details on here, but that would be a book. I can only try to highlight the things that have brought me to this point. 

Ever since before he and I were together I have wanted to be with two men at the same time. I briefly had the opportunity to do that when I was 18 but for some stupid reason I didn't do it. It's never been a secret to him that I"ve wanted to be in a MFM threesome. We've dabbled with it, but I've never fully gotten what I've sought. He has been fully immersed in FMF threesomes within our relationship. We've both enjoyed these very much and reaped the benefits once the other woman left. It's been a long time since we've had anything like that and our sex life is dull again. 

Our relationship has had some hardships along the way too. Sexually I've shut down with him. I refuse to ask him for sex for the fear of rejection which has plagued him for all of our time together. He always has the say so as to when we do it. I can't handle that anymore. I have finally quit asking for it and now he never knows when I want it and my want is waning too. 

I am beginning to really see him as a selfish person. Our family life completely revolves around his hobbies. Hunting has always been his focal point, and this year he is on three softball teams, playing five days/week. He schedules his work around his softball schedule. 2/3 of his vacation this year is for him to hunt or play softball. When our daughter was born 11.5 years ago he was so happy to tell everyone that when she came into the world that he was going to take a week's vacation. He failed to even let me know that during that time he was going to hunt every day!!

We planned a family vacation a few years ago to Disney. We drove down, but hauled his motorcycle. We spent two days at Disney together with our five year old daughter, then on the third day he left to go to Daytona on his motorcycle with his buddy. There I was left at the park with our daughter. Did I have a say in this? No, he planned it all himself. 

A buddy of his planned a bachelor party in Vegas for a weekend. Who the hell has a three day bachelor party in Las Vegas??!!! I was livid. He went. I never had a say.

Last year he planned a hunting trip for himself. Never asked me if I minded. A whole week he went with his buddies. He knew I was wearing thin so he tried to keep me busy all week, scheduled a massage for me, gave our daughter gift certificates to go to dinner together, tix to the movies. 

Every year he completely submerges himself in hunting. When he's got something on his mind such as hunting or playing softball, he doesn't think about sex. If he doesn't think about sex, he doesn't want it. So for the past 13 years we have a good six months of the year and a bad six months (his good six months differs from MY good six months)... six months over the summer when he works and thinks about sex and life is good (this year was the first for the complete submersion in softball). Then for the other six months of the year he is obsessed with hunting and doesn't think about me when he walks out that door to hunt. So our sex life suffers incredibly. He never asks to hunt, as I don't think he should... he's a grown man and should know better. But no matter how much I complained about him hunting, he still had no qualms about neglecting me, and even did it more, just so he wouldn't have to listen to me. 

I compare his freedom of hunting to my desire for another man. Our sex life suffers b/c he's hunting. He's been incredibly selfish. He only thinks about himself. What about me? What about his family? No, he comes first and we get the sloppy seconds, whatever is left over. I'm tired of it. I want the threesome I've wanted since I've been 18. He's had his. He's had his everything... freedom to do whatever he pleases without a thought of me. I'm simply asking for permission to do what I've wanted for so long. And now I'm starting to feel like I deserve to spoil myself a little bit. He deprives me of sex to hunt, I'm going to go get some. He knows I'm falling apart. He is starting to see that I'm not going to put up with it forever and he needs to bend a lot to make up for the pain I've endured. I dont' think he should have to ask for permission to hunt or play ball. And I don't think that I should have to put my foot down and wag my finger at him, I'm not his mother, I'm supposed to be his equal, his wife. I think that he should be man enough to divvy out the right amount of time for me, for our family, and he can get whatever is left over for himself, as a HOBBY, not an obsession! 

He begs to differ that hunting and sex are synonymous. My argument is that he hunts therefore I should be able to have sex. Hunting has always been "the other woman" in our relationship, taking his time and energy, and sex from me. He gets to hunt and do as he pleases regardless of what I think of it. Should I not be able to do as I please regardless of what he thinks about it? Has he not been that selfish??


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

bhappy3,

I hope everything works out for the best with you and your husband, and you get happiness and contentment with each other. You've made it clear that you feel neglected. Hopefully, he'll come to really see this from your perspective and work diligently to tend to your needs as a loving husband.

For what it's worth, and I realize I have offended you my earlier posts so I hope you keep an open mind with what I'm about to say, but I honestly think the first step is getting things right with your husband... for him to be sorry for his neglect and really promise (and show by actions) that he is changing for the better. Otherwise, any threesome or fantasy would only provide a temporary sense of fufillment but you'll be left feeling down or discontent again afterwards.

You know by my posts that I don't personally believe in involving anyone else in the sexual intimacy of a marriage, but I realize you are all adults who each must make their own decision and deal with the results. I could have said what I did in earlier posts without coming across as insulting - for that, I'm sorry.

Hey, we seem to have something in common: Ironically, you feel that you go against the grain of society, and I, as a person who does believe in a higher power feel like I'm going against the grain of society and am in a minority of sorts.

I still don't think bringing another person in will help your marriage in the long run. It seems like the majority of opinions in this post agree with the idea of a threesome; I seem to be the only one really bucking the trend, with maybe the exception of one other post. I just ask that, with an open mind (and I'm not throwing that in your face, I'm being sincere) you consider what I've said, even if you disagree with it.

Like I said, I truly wish you the very best in your marriage. I know we disagree on how to get there. I don't know you, and sorry I came across at first as putting you down.

Peace,
DJ


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

DJ, I applaud you for your honesty, openness, and ability to accept others lifestyles that may differ from yours. Thank you. 

Things are progressing with us. He is slowly accepting the errors of his ways and trying dilligently to turn things around. Why did it have to come to the point of me telling him that "if the opportunity presents itself, I'm taking it" for him to get it thru his thick skull that I'm serious??!! MEN!!!!! He did drop his Sunday softball team, much to the dismay of his teammates, but it was something he did on his own, without me even asking. He says he won't hunt at all this year if that's what I want, but I'm not falling for that one... he'll be dopey all season long and I'll feel guilty for his depression. He needs to make these decisions on his own thru his own eyes of what needs to be done. I should not be his mother and grant him permission slips to do things, but he should not walk all over me as he has been. 

As I said, things are going better... he is trying to make better for what he's done. But it's going to take me some time to heal and be able to trust again. Am I wrong to view this as an affair of sorts... I'm not asking for firepower for me to have sex, I'm simply asking if perhaps anyone else sort of sees it that way? I've been hurt b/c of his passions for other activities, hurt to the point of shutting down, and now it's going to take time to rebuild trust and happiness. 

DJ, you are on the same page as my husband. He knows the indulgences I want, but he too said the other night that we need to work on us first, give us the time we need first, and then we can talk about my threesome. 

How do you feel like you're going against society with your beliefs? I do believe most of the world has some sort of belief in a higher power, true though they may not put it into action (oh but this is a whole other bucket of worms). I thought agnostics and athiests were in the minority. If I had more energy at the moment I'd look for some statistics...... but I will grant you value again at least. =)


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

bhappy3 said:


> So I met this guy on this forum. Rest assured, there's nothing going on. He's married, I'm married, we just found some common ground and have been chatting about it since. I have no interest in him romantically, intimately, sexually, nothing.
> 
> So here's the deal... he had some mixed emotions about his wife hooking up with a younger guy. At one time he would feel so excited about it, at another, he was a little angry about it. I encouraged him to go one way or the other with it and be happy with his choice. He did and he's reaping the benefits of his wife getting with someone else. He's one of those guys that enjoys that. I think that's super awesome.
> 
> ...


I have read through this thread, and really would like to delve into this a little more. First I think that if both people are open, and ok with there being a third party involved than by all means... 

I think that by you having the conversations with the man you met here only pushes forward the desire to have the MMF threesome. Seeing someone else get their fantasies come to reality can be frustrating. I think the other issues you are having in your marriage is making it more frustrating.

I desire to have a MMF with my wife. The thought is something I often masturbate to. It is something my wife has made very clear that she is not interested in, and will not happen. I respect that choice, and have let that go. As other issues in our marriage become stressful, I have found that not getting my sexual desires met becomes a more pressing issue. 

Since you have had a previous threesome, I am sure once the other issues in your marriage get cleaned up you will be able to move forward with that.


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## tnt20years (Aug 11, 2008)

bhappy3: 

It's uncanny how much you and I have in common, yet our reactions are so different.

Your husband sounds identical to mine. It must be the sports enthusiasts in them. My husband golfs all summer and coaches all winter and spring. In between he hunts, plays basketball, etc. We have been married 20 years now and it has only progressed. I guess that makes me an enabler. I've always been told "At least he's not out partying at the bars or out with wild woman". So I have allowed him to reach the point that he doesn't even ask or tell me what he is doing...he just does it, and I'm just left feeling lonely and hurt.

About eight years ago he and I participated in a one-time FMF threesome. It was OK, but I woke up the next morning with the most horrible feelings of dread, regret and shame I have ever felt!!! He didn't seem too fazed about it...actually I think he thought he turned into some type of God or something. I told him that morning that I never wanted to do anything like that ever again. 

He recently tried to involve us in a couple swap, unbeknownst to me. The other couple thought that he and they could coerce me into it. What DJ said hit the spot on my feelings soooo much that it stung when I read it: 

_I don't see how, on God's earth, a woman can truly love her husband but want to give herself to another man, or vice versa. I think people just want the security blanket of a stable relationship while getting to live a wild, party life. Basically, wanting a threesome, whether it be the man that wants it or the woman, is just a way of saying, "Spouse, you're not enough for me, I need more, so we need to bring in help." It's the ultimate insult._

I felt cheated out of the last twenty years that I have given him. It's true, I found out that I wasn't enough for him and I was hugely insulted!! And all I kept thinking was that he didn't love me anymore. That is why I joined this forumn to try to understand why he would do that to me. My thread is called "Married 20 years and I think we're falling apart". 

But what I found is that our marriage was at serious risk. And I think that is where you and I fall back into common. This has been an eye opener to us that we need to work on our marriage and our relationship with each other and most importantly our sex life!!! My husband also only has sex on his terms, and I did the same as you, I shut down because I didn't want to be rejected anymore. It was getting to the point that we were only having sex 2 - 3 times per month!!! Since this happened I have been trying to make our sexual encounters much more enjoyable for him. Therefore, they have been happening much more often :smthumbup: However, as much as I aim to please, we still need to work on him making things more enjoyable for me!!

Definitely work on your relationship!!! Then if that works out do what the two of you feel comfortable doing, but only if he is willing!!! If he is forced into it, it will only tear you all down!!


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Dont hold your husband's hobbies against him. They invigorate his life and have nothing to do with you. Would you rather have him on the sofa drinking beer?

As far as the sex goes it would be better for you to go out and actually engage in the act and feel those consequences then continue to live in the bitterness you have now. It's not doing you any good. The mind loves fantasy and loves when you chase it. But there is little lasting satisfaction or contentment from doing so. 

The big picture for you would be to solve the issues between your husband and yourself when it comes to sex. If he is unwilling to do so consider your other options.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

bhappy3 said:


> Do you think as humans we're really supposed to be monogamous??


i was just learning about this. I have always noticed that marriage seems to be very much like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. 

here's an article on it: http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussLAB/pdffiles/Sexual_Strategies_Theory_1993.pdf

The article is rather long, but a wonderfully in depth quantitative approach that sheds some interesting light on the topic.


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## Triton (Jul 8, 2008)

:rofl:


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

bhappy,
you say:

>>>Do you think as humans we're really supposed to be monogamous?? Don't answer that out loud. We are animals after all. The whole idea of polyamory intrigues me as well.<<< 

well, lotta thing animals do that we don't...make your own list...
and i am gonna answer out loud...we ARE supposed to be monogamous...hey, i like sex as much as the next person. in fact, other than the fact that i'm currently separated (sex was not a problem in or marriage) i like it more! we did role playing, light playful bondage, so i'm not a prude when it comes to this. but you'e talking about another man's parts and that crosses a line for me. i don't think your husbands desires are met long term by your wants.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Well in nature it is okay to fight, to have the alpha male no matter who he is take all the females for breeding, killing or maiming to steal land (property) etc. So if we want to through out monogamous relationships out of society because it doesn't happen in the wild lets through out all the rules that don't apply and live in anarchy where only the strongest live and they take what they want.

draconis


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

I may not be religious, but I am humanistic and don't think we should throw out all rules of the wild. Monogamy stems from religion. I think with unrealistic expectations we only set ourselves up for failure or pain or hurt or disaster. 

Brad... interesting. Are you suggesting I go out and cheat? I like your view on that. I do harbor some bitter feelings. Which feeling would be worse though. They always say it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.... As far as his hobbies, yeah, I know they have nothing to do with me and that's the problem! Why can't we be active kayakers or something that we're both active in that gives us time together? No I wouldn't rather him be on the sofa with a beer, I'd rather he and I make a honeydo list and he do that! oh yeah, back to reality now... he's just ocd with his hobbies and our relationship suffers because of it. I must say he's gotten better since the big breakdown whenever I posted this thread originally. 

ljtseng... I will definitely read that! I may actually be doing a research paper for my english class on "are we meant to be monogamous?"

triton... you're cute

voivod... who or where does it say we're supposed to be monogamous?


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

oh yeah, and as a side note, last night we both agreed that we miss having threesomes. problem is, we don't have anyone to do either with (mfm, fmf). we're too picky when it comes to choosing someone... don't want someone off the internet or from a "club". we want someone that we know and can trust. sigh..............


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

bhappy3 said:


> I may actually be doing a research paper for my english class on "are we meant to be monogamous?


thats cool. i think the question of being in a montonous relationship really depends on the person. Its not really a blanket statement of should _everyone or no one be in that kind of relationship, but who (male and/or female, kids) would benefit from it and why._


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> thats cool. i think the question of being in a montonous relationship really depends on the person. Its not really a blanket statement of should _everyone or no one be in that kind of relationship, but who (male and/or female, kids) would benefit from it and why._


_

monogamous, monotonous. haha. frued might've have said something like this:rofl:_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

voivod said:


> monogamous, monotonous. haha. frued might've have said something like this:rofl:


:rofl: lol...that is funny. my subconscious at work... :rofl:


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## tnt20years (Aug 11, 2008)

bhappy3 said:


> oh yeah, and as a side note, last night we both agreed that we miss having threesomes. problem is, we don't have anyone to do either with (mfm, fmf). we're too picky when it comes to choosing someone... don't want someone off the internet or from a "club". we want someone that we know and can trust. sigh..............


I'm curious why you enjoy threesomes so much. I just didn't get that. Yes it was fun, but the aftermath was too much for me. Don't you ever wonder if he's enjoying the other woman's p**** more than he likes yours? Or don't you ever wonder why he's doing something to her that he has never done to you? Is your sex life with your husband not good enough?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

well as they say, different strokes for different folks, If Bhappy and her hubby are on the same "field" and are both cool with it, whom are we to judge them.

best of luck with your desires


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## tnt20years (Aug 11, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> well as they say, different strokes for different folks, If Bhappy and her hubby are on the same "field" and are both cool with it, whom are we to judge them.
> 
> best of luck with your desires


Very very true, I'm not knocking, bhappy, just trying to understand what I missed maybe???


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## Mrs.B (Sep 4, 2008)

justean said:


> grass is not greener. we all have fantasies - leave at that .
> fantasies.
> i have looked into many of the things u have said. and believe me its not a pretty picture as you imagine .
> if your the jealous type - really steer clear of this, you wil hound yourself with questions after the event and it could prove disatrous.
> try and reinvent your sex life, this can be done.


I couldn't agree more. It ruined my first marriage...EVEN THOUGH I had the EXACT same ideas, fantasies, points of view as you...


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## waterfall~ (Sep 8, 2008)

bhappy,

I agree with you that we are not naturally monogamous....that's precisely why I think marriage is so precious. Marriage is a choice. And it's a choice that traditionally requires us to protect our spouse...._even from ourselves._ Of course it's not right for your H to selfishly neglect you (and it's pretty normal to fantasize under those circumstances), but as my grandmother used to say "Two wrongs don't make a right". Responding to selfish behavior, with selfishness and dishonesty doesn't right that wrong, it only compounds it. 

Here's a different perspective from someone who has seen polyamory in action. First of all, even my polyamorist friends believe in fidelity in marriage....but they define fidelity as open and honest. Both partners agree to have an open relationship for sexual encounters only....and preserve the emotional bonds of marriage. You're just talking about "I'm bored with my marriage, piqued by the lustful stories of my friend, and feel sexually neglected....so why shouldn't I cheat?" That's not polyamory....that's just infidelity...yanno? 

But let's say that your husband agrees to an open marriage and resumption of the threesomes etc. I know a whole bunch of people who have tried it. Unfortunately, it's eventually destroyed every single one of their marriages....why? Well it's the simple misconception that as animals we can completely separate sex and emotion. It's a fantasy. We need human contact on so many different levels, and eventually.....some random sexual partner who's supposed to be just an "encounter" triggers romantic feelings.... and poof....ptuuuuuuueeeee....the marriage is toast. The kids pay the price. It ends up pretty sucky and a very poor long term strategy. 

I've known some open marriages that lasted for quite awhile before it happened (even long enough for the kids to get ridiculed in school)....and others....where it unraveled almost right away. Relationships are hard. They are very hard between two committed spouses.....when you add other people....you UP THE ANTE....way UP! Open marriage is the most unstable marriage model I know of....and without a doubt, if you're not both _reeeeeeallly on board....go ahead and write the postnup now so that division of assets and custody are already decided. 

I'm not talking to you from a moral perspective....just practical considerations, and ethical considerations. If you want to be a polyamorist....then to do that in an ethical way, you've got to be honest with your husband about it and consider his feelings (yes, even if you're feeling neglected too). OR....you need to end your marriage and pursue your real desires....giving him the chance to have a monogamous relationship with someone else if he so chooses. But to secretly pursue other partners is disrespectful and unethical. It robs him of the choice. 

Personally, I'd love to see you try and put the energy into THIS marriage FIRST. You were honest to him....and that's great. He responded....and that's great too. Maybe polyamory is not the answer. 

PS....even innocent friendships can be destructive to your marriage. Even if you aren't emotionally involved with your friend, how healthy is your jealousy about their sexual trysts for your marriage? It's easy to romanticize and fantasize these scenarios....but why not wait and see before you adopt something that could prove very destabilizing. Wait at least a little while and see what happens before letting your jealousy make your decision for you. 

hugs and good luck!_


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

tnt20years said:


> I'm curious why you enjoy threesomes so much. I just didn't get that. Yes it was fun, but the aftermath was too much for me. Don't you ever wonder if he's enjoying the other woman's p**** more than he likes yours? Or don't you ever wonder why he's doing something to her that he has never done to you? Is your sex life with your husband not good enough?


I love watching my husband with someone else. We never had any problematic aftermath, only super great sex - alone, the next day. That alone was worth it because it was even more fulfilling than the threesome. So what if he enjoys her more than me... he'll still be coming home to me and still be married to me and I'll still be the one he loves. He doesn't share that stuff with her, so it doesn't bother me at all. If he did something different to her than he did to me, I'd encourage it b/c it would mean that he's trying new things! And if it worked on her, I'm sure he'd try it on me. This is a compliment to our sex life. I'm not looking for it to take the place of it. It's like, why do you masturbate? Isn't your wife good enough for you? No, it's not like that... it's just a different dimension. Sure, threesomes and all the taboo things may not be for everyone. I'm not into what some other people are... bondage, domination, golden showers, woman on woman etc. But that floats some people's boats. 

And the last statement... when you're married for nine years and together for 14, things can get monotonous.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

it sounds to me like you are feeling totally neglected in several aspects of your relationship. just the fact that he is never around & never includes you in the decision to do what he does is very disheartening (i know the feeling). feeling neglected like that can lead you to be bored & so of course your mind is gonna go in that direction. i have no judgement on what you want to do...my only advice would be to make sure everything is good with your relationship before you move forward because it might only make matters worse! i would try to address some of your other issues with him first before suggesting this event. good luck!


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## tnt20years (Aug 11, 2008)

bhappy3 said:


> I love watching my husband with someone else. We never had any problematic aftermath, only super great sex - alone, the next day. That alone was worth it because it was even more fulfilling than the threesome. So what if he enjoys her more than me... he'll still be coming home to me and still be married to me and I'll still be the one he loves. He doesn't share that stuff with her, so it doesn't bother me at all. If he did something different to her than he did to me, I'd encourage it b/c it would mean that he's trying new things! And if it worked on her, I'm sure he'd try it on me. This is a compliment to our sex life. I'm not looking for it to take the place of it. It's like, why do you masturbate? Isn't your wife good enough for you? No, it's not like that... it's just a different dimension. Sure, threesomes and all the taboo things may not be for everyone. I'm not into what some other people are... bondage, domination, golden showers, woman on woman etc. But that floats some people's boats.
> 
> And the last statement... when you're married for nine years and together for 14, things can get monotonous.


You are a very confident woman...and probably much younger than me...that must be where the difference lies. It's a great fantasy, and I still think about it, but.......I just can't. Oh well, I guess I'll go on being monotonous


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## bhappy3 (Feb 4, 2008)

tnt20years said:


> You are a very confident woman...and probably much younger than me...that must be where the difference lies. It's a great fantasy, and I still think about it, but.......I just can't. Oh well, I guess I'll go on being monotonous


Confident... hmm. Confident in him, yes. I just trust him beyond any shadow of a doubt that he's not going to stray on me. I am 110% sure that I'm the one that he's coming home to and the one he loves. Period. 

I was his first and I was determined not to remain his only. I never wanted him to wonder what it was like to be with someone else, so I opened that door early on. I told him right up front that if he ever wanted to be with someone else that he had permission. Of course I wanted to be privvy to the information. 

Not sure what age has to do with it... I'm 32, is that young? He's a good man with a great moral code and a great head on his shoulders. Despite our differences, I really do love him and hope to love him the rest of my life. =)


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## sadybear (Nov 10, 2008)

I think lack of sex, or more appropriately lack of intimacy in a marriage should be reconized by the CDC! And we should have full insurance coverage for it, along with paid sick days. 


My best advice to you for what's it's worth is to put the idea of having sex with anyone even with you husband on the back burner for now. I know this sounds crazy because as it's seems to be right now or for the lst 15 years the thing you desire. I would then suggest treating yourself, especially because you have children, start taking care of you, develop you! if you could imagine that you've broken up with your boyfriend(aka husband) and you hiatus from dating. The only person's intrests you intrested in cultivating other than your children's, are your own, and you can incorporate the two and take advantage of seprating you husbands hobbies fron that of the household, and take the children on vacations and day trips outside of whatever hubby is doing, you need to stop be so available to have you life run bu his hobbies. Start and make your own hobbies. 

Sex is only the symptom, it's itimacy in your relationship that's out of whack, or so it sounds, so before you go and do anything sexual with another person, and put a band-aide on cancer, and confuse yourself and life's circumstances more. Get back to you. Employ a sitter to stay at home with you children or a friend and make time with friends, or for yourself to really do something that you want to do outside of your marriage, outside of your husband. I want you to know you again, and be able to identify with the pain your feeling, with the happiness with YOURSELf, and then your marriage, what led you to the selfish man you choose to spend life with. Get it all out and then see how you feel and where things lead you.

I'm wishing you all the best, and just a thought....


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