# Wife Cheated on Me while I was away at training



## WeDoExist

The first thing I am going to say is to everybody that reads this. In case you don't already know, do NOT think that your spouse will NEVER cheat on you. I thought the same thing. And now here I am...

Background:

I've been married to my wife for almost 2 yrs, together for 4. I am 26; she is 28. She is a psychologist who majored in marriage/family therapy (go figure). I have worked in law enforcement my whole adult life. Needless to say, our marriage has had its ups and downs. We've both struggled with depression. However I never thought things were as bad as they really were.

From early Jan. through the end of Feb., I was out of state. I was doing required training about 1000 miles away. I was gone for almost 8 weeks. At the end of January, my wife began to voice concerns and confusion about our relationship. She told me that she wasn't sure if we should've gotten married, she's not attracted to me sexually anymore, she doesn't want to "wake up as a middle aged woman full of regret, that she's not in love with me anymore, etc. This was obviously very difficult to deal with. I couldn't come home, and we didn't have the $ to send her out to me. I tried to get her to just hold off on any decisions until I was home and we could talk face-to-face.

Well that didn't work. On Feb. 19, (10 days until I would be home) she dropped the bomb. She told me that she had cheated on me two days prior. She told me that it was only one time, and that she immediately regretted it. Of course I had tons of questions but she was being very defensive and would not answer all of them. The next 10 days, I bounced back and forth between thinking I didn't even want to see her again, and possibly trying to R. Those days were hell...sleepless nights, no appetite, tons of confusion, feelings of zero self-worth, etc. 

After I got home, she started to tell me more. She trickle truthed me up until about 5 days ago when she said that she had "told me everything". 

The whole story (as I know it) about the affair:

She and my brother's wife (SIL) had begun to go out to a bar by my house. She ran into the OM while at this bar. The first day she met him, she told him she was married. The next week, they went up there again and he was there. She said that on that day, he tried to take her home. She said she refused because she was married. However, she did admit to exchanging phone numbers that night. (Kind of conflicting..I know) She then said that on the 3rd night at the bar, she and my SIL decided to go to the guy's house to hang out w/ him and his roommate. Once at their house, my wife was alone w/ him. She told me that they made out, touched, etc. She said she couldn't go through with it.

On the 4th night...Sat. Feb. 18th...she saw him at the bar for the fourth time. She went home with him again. Except this time, she did not hold back. They had sex... Fk this is hard to type. She said they only did it one time and that she hasn't seen him since. She claims that they have not talked since Feb 27/28. I wish I could believe this...but I'm struggling with it.

Since I've been home, things have been crazy. We began hyper-bonding...although I usually feel regret and/or shame after we have sex. She seems committed to R, but I can't help but wonder if I really have the truth. I'm so afraid that she is still hiding things. I also feel like I don't know her anymore...or my SIL. I can't believe that she betrayed me...and that my SIL encouraged that behavior. I am so crushed. I want to R but I do not know if I can ever trust her again. 

My whole world has crumbled into my hands...


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## CH

Wait, your SIL went with her to the guys house to hang out wife his male or female roomate? If guy then she's with the other guy and your wife is with this guy.

They both did the dirty deed IMO. BTW, what happens next time if you're out of town again for business? So that means you're gonna have to stay with her 24/7 to babysit her from now on? And she shows zero remorse IMO.

AND TELL YOUR BROTHER, blood comes 1st. You have to deal with your wife but your SIL also went to that place and she was alone with the roomate doing who knows what.

If you guys were married for a long time and had kids I would probably say see where the R takes you, but at so young an age. We only live once, and IMO it's not worth living it with a cheater (I should know, I'm one of them).


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## warlock07

She is lying. You don't have the complete truth. Talk to your brother too. She might be cheating as well. You need to find out the truth hook or by crook. Get his phone number. Expose him to his wife/gf/family

What kind of phone does she have? You can extract the texts from the phone. Look at the phone records. See who she was calling. Get her tested for STDs. Don't have sex until you have the results.


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## Thorburn

First slow down. Most of us here know why you are doing what you are doing, we have been there.

Get tested for STD's and have her tested and have her sign a release so you can get them.

Have her get tested for pregnancy. Hel*, I made my 50 year old wife do it.

You want things to be as there were. Your marriage is dead and so is your wife. The marriage you thought you had and wife you thought you had are gone.

I don't know what you need as far as details. I needed everything as painful as it was. I have not gotten all the details as my wife has memory issues but I think she is using that to keep some things from me. I have through investigation, her telling me things and other contacts believe I have just about 90 to 95% of what happened. There are details, dates and times "she does not remember". Bugs the crap out of me. Bottom line on this is how much do you need or want to know?

Do not rug sweep. Make her talk about it. You seem to have gone back into lovey dovely mode too fast. Again most of us here get it that you want things as they were, but slow down, man, slow down.


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## Thorburn

Expose this A to everyone. Family, OMW, OM family, expose, expose.

Typically a way to kill an affair is exposing. Some of us learned this the hard way.

Do not believe much of what she says without proof. Mulitply the number of times she says she has sex. If they kissed and made out that is code for we had sex. 

And your SIL was there. I bet you a Philadelphia Cheesesteak that she got her some man pipe as well.


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## WeDoExist

I realized that I wasn't handling it as I should. I guess that's part of the reason that I shared my story. My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though.

We have been talking about it... Everyday since I've been back we've talked about it. She is more emotionally needy than ever, and says I'm not supporting her. In fact she called me today, telling me how depressed she was. I really just didn't want to hear it. I want to say the obvious: "Do you know what you've done to me?" I am stuck between trying to be a great husband, and worrying only about myself. I just don't know what to do. We are seeing a MC this Friday. I keep telling myself to just wait until then to process things further...


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## WeDoExist

I exposed the A immediately. Her friends, family, my friends/family, etc. all know about it. 

While she initially lied about the day, it happened the night before she told me. Is this a good or a bad thing? It made me feel better knowing that she told me on her own.

She says the OM is 34 and single. I have his phone # and have considered calling him. I just don't know what to say. In about a week I'll be able to verify via phone records whether or not she stopped texting/calling him. She told me that there were many inappropriate texts between them. I am torn as to whether or not I want to see them. I don't know how to retrieve deleted messages from her phone.


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## bandit.45

Both your wife and SIL are cheaters. You and your brother need to expose them to the whole family.  Your wife has probably absorbed all the modernistic "do what make you feel good" psychology and thus has no remorse at all. 

This is a tough one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer

WeDo, 
You should run away from this as other's have stated.

She pursued him by constantly returning to that bar night after night. She knew what she wanted and went for it. I think it is likely that she had sex with him more than once during this time. She's simply telling you only what she thinks she has to.

Let your Brother know what his wife's role has been in this affair. I find it hard to believe she is innocent.

I also wouldn't believe her that they haven't been in communication. Check her cell phone records for texts and calls to this guy. Buy a keylogger and put it on her PC. Buy a voice activated recorder (VAR) or two and put one in the car under the seat (attach it with velcro) and the other in a place in the house you think she'd be comfortable talking to someone where she'd have some privacy.

Sorry but don't be surprised if this is still going on but has gone more underground


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## CH

WeDoExist said:


> I realized that I wasn't handling it as I should. I guess that's part of the reason that I shared my story. My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though.


WTF, HE'S YOUR BROTHER, BLOOD and you won't say anything. WTF, I would be yelling at my wife if she said she knew my brother's wife was cheating but don't tell him because she promised she wouldn't tell anyone. F*ck that with a bat, I'll be at my brother's place outing the girl out.

If it's not a good friend or blood, yes I probably would keep out of it but damn, he's your own flesh and blood. Tell him so he can kick the skank out and move on with his life since she wants out anyways.


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## EleGirl

Tell your brother. He has the right to know what has been going on in his life. He might just surprise his wife and file for divorce before she does. In some states infidelity can be used as the reason for divorce and influences the outcome.

And after you tell your brother, tell your wife that you told him because he have to protect your brother. Also tell her that you will not be a party to helping your SIL continue her lies.


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## WeDoExist

Just called him...


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## AngryandUsed

bandit.45 said:


> Both your wife and SIL are cheaters. You and your brother need to expose them to the whole family. Your wife has probably absorbed all the modernistic "do what make you feel good" psychology and thus has no remorse at all.
> 
> This is a tough one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with bandit.45

Hang on here, you will get more advice.


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## snap

WeDoExist said:


> Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me".


Uh, and you should listen to your cheater wife beacuse...?

Tell your brother ASAP. If your wife blows up on that, say you had your fingers crossed when you promised.


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## AngryandUsed

I still wonder why his spouse announced her ONS with OM.


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## CH

AngryandUsed said:


> I still wonder why his spouse announced her ONS with OM.


Afraid SIL was bailing on her marriage and was gonna spill the beans? I have to wonder how many times those 2 have been playing pilot and wingwomen together.


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## Almostrecovered

the fact you got the ILYBINILWY speech prior to her supposed cheating means she had already cheated with someone else or at the very least had plans on cheating while you were gone


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## TDSC60

Sorry to say but the cheating was a planned event. She started going to the bar w/ cheating SIL knowing full well she intended to hook up with some other guy. That is why she kept going back, exchanged phone numbers, and eventually had sex with him. That is exactly what she intended to do. She did not go out get drunk and wake up in bed with another guy - she wanted to cheat and planned it until she eventually worked up the nerve to do it.

You have not had time to get over the initial shock let alone figure out what you want to do next. Slow way down. Your whole life just took a terrible hit. Don't jump to ANY major choices or decisions now. Eventually you may find it does not matter why she did it - the fact that she intended to do it, planned to do it, then followed through with the plan, may be too much for you to accept and move on with her.

Bonding with her at this stage is only causing more confusion for you. Slow it down and follow the advice of other posters as far as STD and pregnancy testing is concerned.


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## AngryandUsed

Have you discussed seriously with her?
Have you started D process? 
What did you say, "She is a marriage counselor"?


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## Almostrecovered

just because she is a MC don't assume she knows what a wayward needs to do to help you heal if in R


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## AngryandUsed

MC profession should have given her more knowledge as to how to hide the affair!


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## bandit.45

What makes OP's wife worse is her SIL is her "cheat buddy". They will cover for each other, just watch and you'll see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

the big 4 in order to heal from infidelity-

1) No contact- she must never contact OM again, if he contacts her she must ignore it and tell you of it right away. Mostr cases a NC letter should be written (see the newbie link in my signature for more info)
2) complete transparency- all passwords, phone, whereabouts, etc are now like an open book and she shouldn't make you feel guilty for spying or snooping. If you ask to see her phone, she gives it to you. It also helps to heal by affirmation if you spy on your own means with keyloggers and VAR's, etc
3) 100% true remorse- see the chart in the newbie link for more detail, but NO MORE trickle truth, blameshifting or gaslighting. The affair is all hers to own and do the heavy lifting for
4) spend more one on one time together - 10-15 hours a week to rebond and talk


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## Shaggy

Like AR points out, she was already cheating before this. Her actions in Jan and the rest of the month show this.

More likely is that the OM didn't want her full time and dumped her, or perhaps he found someone he wanted more and dumped her. Either way she is running back to her plan B.

It is also possible the SIL was about to be caught herself or leave , perhaps she got something or is knocked up, and your wife is afraid of all her activities coming out.

Good job calling your brother, he always should come first over a cheat wife and cheating SIL.

So I assume that your wife is now banned from any contact with you SIL? You realize your wife feels a loyalty to the SIL more than to you right? You need to make no contact with the SIL a rule for you staying in the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

Only 4 years together and married only 2 years, no kids.

I say get out and move on you're still young. Trust me, it's not easy on both ends to move on with an affair. It takes years and years and years of work and for the BS it's basically a slap in the face to you because

We cheated and you took us back but we'll be faithful now. My wife should have kicked me in the nuts and moved on to find someone better. Don't get me wrong, I love her to death but in my heart I know she deserves better, I try to give that to her but deep down inside I know it'll never be enough.

Things can be better after an affair but wouldn't it be better to just find that someone who won't cheat on you?


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## chaos

Now that you allegedly told your brother about both of your wives infidelities, maybe the two of you can give each other emotional support.


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## WeDoExist

She is no longer talking w/ SIL. The way I summed it up was that she basically replaced me w/ my SIL and some loser. It's just so much to grasp...


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## Almostrecovered

WeDoExist said:


> It's just so much to grasp...


sucks, don't it?


you're going to go through stages and awful feelings for a while. It's obviously at its worst now and will heal over time and with either a D or a true R.


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## WeDoExist

Any opinions on me contacting him? I wouldn't even know where to begin...


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## Almostrecovered

confronting OM is usually worthless

you can't expect to get the truth from him 
getting into a violent confrontation is also not worth it

if he is married then it is definitely worth telling her


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## Shaggy

Almostrecovered said:


> sucks, don't it?
> 
> 
> you're going to go through stages and awful feelings for a while. It's obviously at its worst now and will heal over time and with either a D or a true R.


That doesn't explain Janurary. Have you put a VAR in her car to catch her talking to your SIL. 

Also no doubt SlL will be calling her right after your brother confronts her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

hence the term "true R'

true R he gets the whole truth


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## WeDoExist

I did. I found the OM's number. There's a sh*t-ton of messages starting on 2/04. The last one was on 2/27, which matches her story at least.


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## EleGirl

WeDoExist said:


> Any opinions on me contacting him? I wouldn't even know where to begin...


The first thing you might want to do is to find out more about him. There is a chance that he's not really single. I've know a married guy or two who used friend's appartments to take women to. This way they women never found out that they were really married and it was harder for the wife to find out that they were cheating...

Find out more about him. He might have a wife or a committed gf. If he does, expose him. 

Contacting him is probably useless because he's a liar. He uses married women... he will most likely not tell you the truth. But knwo who he is.


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## Almostrecovered

WeDoExist said:


> I did. I found the OM's number. There's a sh*t-ton of messages starting on 2/04. The last one was on 2/27, which matches her story at least.



so that excludes OM for her January speech


possibilities-

-SIL got her hooks in her and talked her into going out with her to explicitly hook up with other guys

- Another EA or PA you don't know about

- she's been curious about cheating for a while and decided it would be best if you were out of town


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## CH

WDE, you're 26 are you sure you can handle the rest of your life dealing with triggers and being super detective? R isn't easy and you have to decide if you want to play police to her for the next couple of years.

She's late, she's cheating again. Doesn't answer your call, she's cheating again. Mentions a guy in a conversation, she's cheating. Looks at something and some guy is in the vicinity, she's cheating.

And the list goes on, can you really handle that? You'll never trust her completely ever again. The trust will come back but you'll never trust her 100% and blindly ever again for the rest of your life.

My wife still checks my phone and computer from time to time saying she just needs to use them. But I know that it's what she needs to do once in a blue moon when a trigger hits her.

I for one could never do that, but she's a better person than I am because I'm a selfish prick. BTW, d-day for me was 14 years ago WDE.


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## bandit.45

Leave the OM alone but tell his wife if he has one. If you mess with him or assault him in any way you can kiss your career as a peace officer goodbye. 

As young as you are, I would consider divorce. You will never be able to fully trust your wife again. Don't waste your youth on a 10% longshot. Its not worth the gamble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

WeDoExist said:


> Any opinions on me contacting him? I wouldn't even know where to begin...


 Do not contact the OM. No good will come of it. All it will do is make him feel more alpha and you more beta. Look the guy took your wife right our from under you and banged her. There is nothing more to it that needs to be discussed.


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## Thorburn

WeDoExist said:


> I did. I found the OM's number. There's a sh*t-ton of messages starting on 2/04. The last one was on 2/27, which matches her story at least.


EA in 2010 my wife lied over and over again. Even when I showed her the evidence she lied and finally admitted it. She never came clean on anything in 2010 even when I had the evidence she just lied over and over again. 

Contacted the OMW it was brutal for her as she was totally unaware. The OM was sexting multiple women including my WS. And here is my WS begging him not to break up with her as she loved him and had feelings for him. She fell "in love" with him after knowing him 3 days on FB and I busted it up a little after a month. So these feeling can come on quick.

2011 an EA went PA again very quickly and this time the guy lived close by.

Being in investigative mode sucks but it will be how you get the truth. Do not let her rug sweep you. Make her talk. It will take several attempts and even then you may not get it all. Do not share with her how you got the information unless it does not matter. I have not shared how I was able to get dates and times (she did share some with me but not all). Her phone gave me a lot of information and she does not know it. Maybe she figured it out but I have been careful about disclosing. She became more educated from her time in 2010. I had a program put on her computer in 2010 and I saw where she did a lot of research trying to figure out how I found out things. When they go underground it is harder to find out stuff.

Sorry you are here. I am attempting R. Others here will tell you to D and they may be correct. Only you can decide what you want to do. R or D will be painful.


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## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> The first thing I am going to say is to everybody that reads this. In case you don't already know, do NOT think that your spouse will NEVER cheat on you. I thought the same thing. And now here I am...
> 
> Background:
> 
> I've been married to my wife for almost 2 yrs, together for 4. I am 26; she is 28. She is a psychologist who majored in marriage/family therapy (go figure). I have worked in law enforcement my whole adult life. Needless to say, our marriage has had its ups and downs. We've both struggled with depression. However I never thought things were as bad as they really were.
> 
> From early Jan. through the end of Feb., I was out of state. I was doing required training about 1000 miles away. I was gone for almost 8 weeks. At the end of January, my wife began to voice concerns and confusion about our relationship. She told me that she wasn't sure if we should've gotten married, she's not attracted to me sexually anymore, she doesn't want to "wake up as a middle aged woman full of regret, that she's not in love with me anymore, etc. This was obviously very difficult to deal with. I couldn't come home, and we didn't have the $ to send her out to me. I tried to get her to just hold off on any decisions until I was home and we could talk face-to-face.
> 
> Well that didn't work. On Feb. 19, (10 days until I would be home) she dropped the bomb. She told me that she had cheated on me two days prior. She told me that it was only one time, and that she immediately regretted it. Of course I had tons of questions but she was being very defensive and would not answer all of them. The next 10 days, I bounced back and forth between thinking I didn't even want to see her again, and possibly trying to R. Those days were hell...sleepless nights, no appetite, tons of confusion, feelings of zero self-worth, etc.
> 
> After I got home, she started to tell me more. She trickle truthed me up until about 5 days ago when she said that she had "told me everything".
> 
> The whole story (as I know it) about the affair:
> 
> She and my brother's wife (SIL) had begun to go out to a bar by my house. She ran into the OM while at this bar. The first day she met him, she told him she was married. The next week, they went up there again and he was there. She said that on that day, he tried to take her home. She said she refused because she was married. However, she did admit to exchanging phone numbers that night. (Kind of conflicting..I know) She then said that on the 3rd night at the bar, she and my SIL decided to go to the guy's house to hang out w/ him and his roommate. Once at their house, my wife was alone w/ him. She told me that they made out, touched, etc. She said she couldn't go through with it.
> 
> On the 4th night...Sat. Feb. 18th...she saw him at the bar for the fourth time. She went home with him again. Except this time, she did not hold back. They had sex... Fk this is hard to type. She said they only did it one time and that she hasn't seen him since. She claims that they have not talked since Feb 27/28. I wish I could believe this...but I'm struggling with it.
> 
> Since I've been home, things have been crazy. We began hyper-bonding...although I usually feel regret and/or shame after we have sex. She seems committed to R, but I can't help but wonder if I really have the truth. I'm so afraid that she is still hiding things. I also feel like I don't know her anymore...or my SIL. I can't believe that she betrayed me...and that my SIL encouraged that behavior. I am so crushed. I want to R but I do not know if I can ever trust her again.
> 
> My whole world has crumbled into my hands...


OMG. She said no I can't because I am married. Well that infers that she would if she was not married I guess. You know in PUA they say just shoot right past the I am married or I have a boy friend. The fact that the women do not tell them to go away means they are interested and that they just need to keep trying. That is what happened here it seems.

Then they went to this guys place to hang out !!!! WTF!? So they just made out and groped each other. meaning they got each other off with penetration ... maybe. 

Since she was married she did not have full blown sex until her fourth date. Wow. Good for her. She is a rock.

Have not read further but this would be deal breaker for me.

No kids let her. You know she was already indulging before she wanted space from you and before she questioned the marriage.

BTW find out if he is really single. Your wife is a liar so she may just be telling you the guy is single.


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## Thorburn

Also be careful about using resources you have available to you at your office for checking up on the guy. You do not want to lose your job if caught as tempting as this may be. I had some law enforcement friends (served in Iraq with me) who told me they would help me but I did not want them to get in hot water over this. i was able to get about everything I needed on the internet and it cost very little to get it.


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## bryanp

Your wife is a real piece of work. She could not last 8 weeks alone because of your training. She has only been married 2 years and she had to go to a bar to meet some new guy and make out with him at his home and then in the next days to screw him 2 days before you get home. What a bunch of crap. How is your brother handling finding out about his cheating wife? I would suggest:
1. Get tested for STD's since you foolishly had sex with her after she screwed this OM.
2. See a good attorney. You have been married only 2 years without kids and she screws a stranger the first time she is apart from you. Do not waste your life on someone like this. You deserve better. She has no respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> I realized that I wasn't handling it as I should. I guess that's part of the reason that I shared my story. My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though.
> 
> We have been talking about it... Everyday since I've been back we've talked about it. She is more emotionally needy than ever, and says I'm not supporting her. In fact she called me today, telling me how depressed she was. I really just didn't want to hear it. I want to say the obvious: "Do you know what you've done to me?" I am stuck between trying to be a great husband, and worrying only about myself. I just don't know what to do. We are seeing a MC this Friday. I keep telling myself to just wait until then to process things further...


Toxic friend / relative --- check

No excuse but your wife hanging out in bars with your cheaing SIL was an instigation.

Instigation -- Going to the bars with the SIL, likely as her wing woman.

Isolation -- you were gone. She was out with her wingmwoman and they went to these guys place. The predators had zero approach anxiety because you were out of pocket and the women were very willing. In fact the predators may have been the women.

Escalation -- The women flirted with the guys. Gave every signal they were available to be had. Yeah sure. I'm married but don't stop banging me. Once they were on the way to the guys place it was all over.


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## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> I exposed the A immediately. Her friends, family, my friends/family, etc. all know about it.
> 
> While she initially lied about the day, it happened the night before she told me. Is this a good or a bad thing? It made me feel better knowing that she told me on her own.
> 
> She says the OM is 34 and single. I have his phone # and have considered calling him. I just don't know what to say. In about a week I'll be able to verify via phone records whether or not she stopped texting/calling him. She told me that there were many inappropriate texts between them. I am torn as to whether or not I want to see them. I don't know how to retrieve deleted messages from her phone.


Why would you call him? He is a POS but your wife went to his place. You can threaten him. You can even beat him up or worse, but is your wife worth the trouble? There is nothing more pitiful thatn a guy asking another man not to bang his wife. Threatening him is only good if he is stalking your wife. He is not. Your wife is the issue.


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## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> I realized that I wasn't handling it as I should. I guess that's part of the reason that I shared my story. My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though.
> 
> We have been talking about it... Everyday since I've been back we've talked about it. She is more emotionally needy than ever, and says I'm not supporting her. In fact she called me today, telling me how depressed she was. I really just didn't want to hear it. I want to say the obvious: "Do you know what you've done to me?" I am stuck between trying to be a great husband, and worrying only about myself. I just don't know what to do. We are seeing a MC this Friday. I keep telling myself to just wait until then to process things further...


So your wife promises in her marriage vows to be faithful to you. Your SIL is cheater and helps your wife getb her leags spread and banged.

You promise her to not tell your borther. Oh heaven forbid you should break your promise.

You break that promise and tell your brother. Not telling him even if your wife did not bang these guys is unacceptable. You become complict in the cheating. You need to tell your brother. Has he been unfaithful to you? Why would you be unfaithful to him?

So yes you tell him. That is just silly. 

You are a great husband. She thinks so too. How great for her to have you there and her get to bang these other guys.

Do not have children with the woman. She is bad news. Move on. Be loyal to your brother.


----------



## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> Just called him...


What did he say?


----------



## 67flh

since you have the guys name, i would hit up facebook and other social sites and see if he is married. i know your wife says he isn't, but do you really wanna believe her?


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## TRy

Entropy3000 said:


> There is nothing more pitiful than a guy asking another man not to bang his wife.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Beowulf

AngryandUsed said:


> I still wonder why his spouse announced her ONS with OM.


My wife ended her affair on her own and told me that night. If I had caught them I wouldn't have stayed with her. But she followed that up with actions. She bent over backwards to show me she was remorseful. You wife needs to do that now. You don't need to support her, she needs to support you.


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## WeDoExist

When I said I just called him, I meant my brother. That convo went as well as it could. 

I'm not going to contact the OM. While I would like to introduce him to a collapsible baton, he is not worth my time.


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## Beowulf

If nobody has told you yet you should go to this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

You said your wife is a MC? I showed this to a MC friend of mine and he said it really struck him as a powerful message to spouses that were unfaithful. Maybe you should show it to your wife?



_A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.

Here is where it gets hard for as much difficulty the WS has to go through they truly cannot comprehend the pain and anguish the BS has to endure. I want you to understand and remember two words. These are two very important words and it will help you to understand what your spouse is probably feeling even if they can’t express it. When they discovered your affair…YOU DIED! Let me say it again…YOU DIED! The person that your husband/wife married is gone forever. Think about a time when you lost someone really close to you. A father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, or spouse. Think of the grief that you had to deal with. That is the same grief that your spouse has to deal with each and every day. Every day that they wake up after D-Day you die again and they feel it again and it's just as intense. The feelings of loneliness, hopelessness, yes…anger (why did you leave me?) Can you even imagine the pain that he/she is going through? Probably not. Because you are the one that had died and they are the one that is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life that was taken from. They are the ones that are left to deal with the loss of a loved one.

But here is the sick part. You are still here; but you aren’t! You are a doppelganger, a clone, an evil twin. You are the one that killed your spouse’s cherished love. You took the love of his/her life away forever violently and without mercy. You stabbed them, mutilated them, burned them and ultimately buried them. You are the monster that has torn up a family. You are the monster that has committed such a senseless heinous act. You are a murderer! And here's the part that most WS miss. You were aware of your actions. You stalked your husband/wife's spouse. You planned how to do it. You conspired with another murderer (the OM/OW) and you finally struck without warning and without honor. The BS was left in shock and dismay watching their cherished lover, friend, partner, confidant bleed to death in the street. They felt hopeless and helpless as the person they loved most in the world was taken from them. Their world...you...died that day.

And you want the grieving person to forgive you. Love you. Stay with you. Think about that for a minute. You, the pod person, the evil clone, the look alike murderer that destroyed the one person in life that your spouse cherished beyond all time and space want the sorrow filled, grief stricken, angry and injured beyond belief person to LOVE YOU? They had this involuntarily inflicted upon them. They had no choice. Only pain. And now you want them to choose to love you. Can you imagine going up to the person that murdered your loved one and choosing to love them?

Now you have a little glimpse into the psyche of your betrayed spouse. You also know why I always tell people that the old marriage is dead and the couple must learn to love each other as new…if they can. It is also why I recommend the betrayed spouse read “Just Let Them Go” even if they want to reconcile. Because you truly have to let the cheating spouse go in order to learn to hopefully love the new version of your husband/wife. It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again._


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## TDSC60

Thumbs up for telling your brother. 

In the long run I think you will be happier if you divorce. Only 2 years married and your wife went out with the intention of cheating. Now she has the taste for it. She may say she is sorry but the phrase "Once a cheater - always a cheater" comes from story after story where the betrayed spouse forgives and works on reconciliation, only to be blindsided again years down the road when much time and money is involved.

Only 2 years married and she goes looking for it the first time you are away from home for a couple of months, this was not an emotional affair that developed over time. She went looking for a One-Night-Stand and found one.

Dump her and move on. Do not be fooled by any of her lies or acting at this point.


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## Shaggy

You need to look hard at your wife because this was no random accident. either she has been having on going affairs, or she deliberately went seeking A guy at the bar to date no sleep with. It is one or the other, because this isnt a story of a girl who got drunk and got pushed into a situation she couldn't control. She was very much in control here.

Do you really think you would be able to trust her in the future.

You may want to point you brother her for hlp dealing with your soon to be exsil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf

I'm a bit...well a lot... disturbed that your wife knew your sil's plans for your brother and not only didn't reveal them but chose to keep participating with her in the buy one get one free offer at the bar. Why didn't she immediately sever contact and tell you since she is your wife and her loyalties supposedly lie with you. Unless there is some serious remorseful actions going on I think you and your brother may want to look into group discounts at the divorce lawyers office.

In rereading your posts I think there is more going on here than anyone knows. Have you checked their purses to see if they have up to date heavily stamped barfly cards?


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## crossbar

WeDoExist said:


> When I said I just called him, I meant my brother. That convo went as well as it could.
> 
> I'm not going to contact the OM. While I would like to introduce him to a collapsible baton, he is not worth my time.


Good deal. It's useless to contact the OM. The OM didn't give a damn about your marriage. What makes you think he gives a damn about what you would have said to him.


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## Shaggy

I suspect the SIL and WW are going to not only in contact, but editing up to support each other. You should watch where she goes the next couple of days 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares

"My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though."

If you value your brother's friendship, I suggest that you tell him ASAP. One of the things that stuck the knife into me after finding out my ex had been cheating for YEARS is finding out that two of my "trusted" relatives along with several "friends" let me know that they had known for years and never bothered to say anything since they had promised not to tell.
The divorce took any feelings I ever had for ANY of them, as well.


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## movin on

she dropped the bomb. She told me that she had cheated on me two days prior. She told me that it was only one time, and that she immediately regretted it. 
yup. another line i got.my wife felt so guilty after the first time she cheated that she did it 3 more times with another fat ugly guy


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## movin on

btw..i said "my wife would never cheat" and i honest to god believed she never would.


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## Humble Pie

WeDoExist said:


> I realized that I wasn't handling it as I should. I guess that's part of the reason that I shared my story. My wife told me that before she cheated, my SIL revealed to her that she has been cheating on my brother for years. My SIL recently told my brother she wanted to separate. I feel like I should tell him... Before my wife told me about my SIL, she made me "promise" to not say anything to anyone about "what she was going to tell me". I still feel like I should though.


There are few times when you really should break those types of promises... and if it deals with your brother's wife cheating on him, that is one of those times!!!


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## Kallan Pavithran

You got the best advices for your peaceful better future, Dont allow her to manipulate you by her lies and I love yous.
She is a cheat, she planed it and executed it. Are you sure that this was her first time?

Did you done the pregnancy test and STD tests?

Move on with your life man, life is short why you want to kill it with a disrespectful cheater?


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## WeDoExist

My brother confronted his wife. She is denying it completely. He is asking me for proof, which I do not have. All I know is that my wife is being open with me, and that is why she told me everything, including my SIL's cheating ways. I fkin hate my SIL. I never thought my wife was capable of this. While she made her own choices, I have no doubt that my SIL was a catalyst. I look at it like they're addicts. It's easier to use if your friends accept it and also use. Would you guys agree with that analogy?


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## Almostrecovered

help your brother investigate

tell him to pretend to believe her so she relaxes again and then use spy tech to uncover it

GPS, text retrieval, VAR in the car, keylogger, etc


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## morituri

Tell him that your wife told you while the two of them were going out to the bar where they met OM.

You've done the right thing by informing your brother that he's married to a cheat. If he chooses to turn on you and turn a blind eye to the truth, then he's got nobody to blame but himself.

One of the best things to come out of telling your brother is that the relationship between your toxic SIL and your wife is over.


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## Shaggy

You need to have a VAR on you and in your wife's car.

Wanna bet if you were to see the SIL alone that she would go off on you and admit her cheating? You could get it on the VAR.

your brother should put a VAR in the SIL car as well.


frankly I have to doubt your wife and SIL have been texting/calling up a storm yesterday and today.


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## bandit.45

Have your brother log onto this site and we can help steer him straight too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Also expect your SIL throw your wife under the bus and reveal things you wife has not told you. Better tell your wife she needs to come clean before the SIL opens the bone closet door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> My brother confronted his wife. She is denying it completely. He is asking me for proof, which I do not have. All I know is that my wife is being open with me, and that is why she told me everything, including my SIL's cheating ways. I fkin hate my SIL. I never thought my wife was capable of this. While she made her own choices, I have no doubt that my SIL was a catalyst. I look at it like they're addicts. It's easier to use if your friends accept it and also use. Would you guys agree with that analogy?


I think you are searching for reasons to forgive your wife. The fact is that she made the choice to go along all the while knowing that your sil was cheating. Even with your analogy nobody sticks a needle in an addicts arm but the addict.

Don't assume you have all the details. Bandit is right. You'd better tell your wife that if there isn't anything she hasn't told you she'd better come clean. I believe you said you were in law enforcement. Maybe you should explain to your wife what a polygraph test is. There was another thread from another betrayed husband in law enforcement whose wife claimed amnesia. He had the polygraph talk with her and finally got the truth.


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## Kallan Pavithran

You ares a beta, no women respect a complete beta husband, its time for you to become an alpha.

Dont be so proud of your wife that she said everything to you. Dont buy her lies blindly like this. She is a cheater who couldn't hold her legs crossed for a few weeks.

This is the time your brother need your help, help him with what ever you know from your WW, don't say that you promised her a ****. Show him your thread, let him come here for some support.


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## ArmyofJuan

You need to pull the rug out from under your W, many (including myself) for some dumb reason feel compelled to "reward" the WS by being better spouses and try to win them back because we feel like we need to compete with the AP.

That's the wrong way to look at it.

She said she was second guessing the M before confessing about the A, time to give her what she said she wanted. 

She screwed up BIG time and now she must pay the piper. Even if in the end you don't D she needs to at least think that's where all this is heading. You need to kick her to the curb and go NC for at least a couple of months while you wrap your head around what happen and what you want to do about it and she needs to sit and suffer the consequences for what she did. She needs to know you don't put up with nonsense or she will lose even more respect for you.

You need to ask yourself if you want to stay with someone who doubts being with you (forget her current desperate pleas at the moment) and stabbed you in the back while you were gone. Even if she were to never cheat on you again the damage is already done. You know her morals are in question now, do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone like that?


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## Beowulf

Whatever you do don't sweep this under the rug. Look at Struggling4ever's threads and see where that leads. That poor guy is going through hell because 11 years ago he wasn't allowed to deal with it the way it should have been dealt with.


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## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> My brother confronted his wife. She is denying it completely. He is asking me for proof, which I do not have. All I know is that my wife is being open with me, and that is why she told me everything, including my SIL's cheating ways. I fkin hate my SIL. I never thought my wife was capable of this. While she made her own choices, I have no doubt that my SIL was a catalyst. I look at it like they're addicts. It's easier to use if your friends accept it and also use. Would you guys agree with that analogy?


Well your brother is going to have to take the information you gave him in good faith and use it as he will. To not tell him because you do not have evidence is absurd. He'll figure it out soon enough.

The SIL is indeed toxic. But your wife is a big girl. No one forced her to cheat. All the information provided indicates she was looking for some strange and got it.

So one thing your wife can do to show remorse is face up to it and tell your brother what she knows. They caused this. The burden is on them. 

You also do not know how far this goes.


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## WeDoExist

Well my brother believes me even w/out proof. I don't know what he's going to do. They have kids that are 8 and 3. This whole situation is so screwed up.

Yesterday I did not talk w/ my wife much. I saw her briefly at home, exchanged a few words, then I went to my bud's house for a date w/ Budweiser. 

Although what we did talk about really disturbed me and I don't really know how to react, so I'd like everyone'e opinion.

While talking about the PA on DDay, I asked her how many times they had sex. She told me once. Well yesterday I asked her again because it just didn't seem right. She replied w/ "only one time". I asked her how many times she did it that night. She then told me 2. She said she told me once before because she thought I was asking how many times she went over there to have sex. Am I crazy for thinking that this is a big deal? Or am I blowing that detail up? I am struggling w/ details so bad right now. I don't know how much I want to know. But I also know that I need to see the "big picture". Any advice?


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## morituri

No you're not crazy because almost all cheaters trickle truth their betrayed spouses to minimize the damage but only end up making it worse. Getting to the truth is essential to gauge the salvageability of the marriage and IF there is any hope for marital R (recovery) IF that is what you ultimately want.


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## WeDoExist

Right now I'm stuck. I bounce back and forth between starting D, and waiting until Friday to see the MC. Maybe I'm putting too much hope into the MC. I've never been to one before so IDK what to expect.


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## Almostrecovered

does your wife know about the exposure yet to your brother, if so how did she find out and what was her reaction?


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## morituri

You're putting too much pressure on yourself. You need time to become emotionally stable and to rationally determine if you want to stay married or not. You also need to inform your wife that the marriage is on hold til further notice. It is easy for her to believe that just because you two had hysterical bonding (lots of sex), haven't moved out and haven't served her with divorce papers, that you still want to be married to her. You will need time to go through phases very much like those who grieve the loss of a loved one in order to process the loss of trust you had in her.

Your number one priority is your personal healing so please consider seeking help from a qualified professional who has experience in treating victims of infidelity and sufferers of PTSD (believe me, it does make a difference).


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## WeDoExist

I told her after I told my brother. I said that this lying, cheating bullsh*t ends with me. She was glad that I told him. Of course my SIL called her immediately. But she did not answer. I've also verified via our online phone records that she has not talked to my SIL since I learned about my SILs involvement. She has also not talked to the OM since I've been back home. (Last time they texted was 2/27)


----------



## Almostrecovered

WeDoExist said:


> I told her after I told my brother. I said that this lying, cheating bullsh*t ends with me. She was glad that I told him. Of course my SIL called her immediately. But she did not answer. I've also verified via our online phone records that she has not talked to my SIL since I learned about my SILs involvement. She has also not talked to the OM since I've been back home. (Last time they texted was 2/27)


well her reaction bodes well


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## Shaggy

Before you decide to R or D - do get her to take a polygraph and get the number of times, and number of men.

She doesn't seem to be falling apart with remorse. In fact is seems like she is playing a wait for you to get over it game.


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## gpa

Ok WDE.
You are in law enforcement for years. This means y have enough experience to face this situation at least with calm and decisive moves.
First of all check the dates and the course of the events as described by your wife.
I think that she was in this with the full help and advance from the SIL. She was somehow guided by her. Perhaps your SIL wanted to find out an ally to her cheating behaviour and career. I’m pretty sure that your wife the first time she went to OM house had sex with him as she went there with your SIL. And of course there was also OM’s friend. Y can figure out what followed. 
The point for y here is to understand if your wife was really a victim of SIL and was drifted to cheating due to her worries about your marriage. But at this point y should also consider that her profession and her knowledge indicate that she shouldn’t have such a behaviour and erratic path.


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## WeDoExist

I agree with you Shaggy. That is why I told her to go stay w/ her parents until further notice. I also informed her this morning that the marriage is on-hold until I get a grip on my feelings and decide what I'm going to do.

Mori, I have been seeing a therapist for a few months now. I see her again tomorrow. It's definitely helping. I had PTSD before from some crazy things I've been involved with at work. I can already feel it coming on from the A. But what is a man to do? Get back up...that's what.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Shaggy said:


> Before you decide to R or D - do get her to take a polygraph and get the number of times, and number of men.
> 
> She doesn't seem to be falling apart with remorse. In fact is seems like she is playing a wait for you to get over it game.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


She is in damage control, she is a selfish person to throw SIL under the bus to divert his attention and minimize her cheating when compared to her SILs. She knows about the SILs cheating long ago but kept quiet and she may like to add that SILs ompany made her to do that. She is not remorseful, dont decide to R without any cosequences for her strawing. Dont trust her ask for a polygraph and see her reaction.


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## WeDoExist

gpa said:


> Ok WDE.
> You are in law enforcement for years. This means y have enough experience to face this situation at least with calm and decisive moves.
> First of all check the dates and the course of the events as described by your wife.
> I think that she was in this with the full help and advance from the SIL. She was somehow guided by her. Perhaps your SIL wanted to find out an ally to her cheating behaviour and career. I’m pretty sure that your wife the first time she went to OM house had sex with him as she went there with your SIL. And of course there was also OM’s friend. Y can figure out what followed.
> The point for y here is to understand if your wife was really a victim of SIL and was drifted to cheating due to her worries about your marriage. But at this point y should also consider that her profession and her knowledge indicate that she shouldn’t have such a behaviour and erratic path.


I've thought of all these things. I know for a fact that my SIL "recruited" her. I also know that it was my SIL's idea to go to their house. My SIL also encouraged her to "go ahead...go upstairs. I want to be alone w/ "so-and-so anyways""

I truly believe that this would've never happened if it weren't for my SIL. BUT, it did happen. Nothing can change that. No amount of remorse, ass-kissing, apologies, etc. NOTHING


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## Initfortheduration

WeDoExist said:


> I've thought of all these things. I know for a fact that my SIL "recruited" her. I also know that it was my SIL's idea to go to their house. My SIL also encouraged her to "go ahead...go upstairs. I want to be alone w/ "so-and-so anyways""
> 
> I truly believe that this would've never happened if it weren't for my SIL. BUT, it did happen. Nothing can change that. No amount of remorse, ass-kissing, apologies, etc. NOTHING


I love how she told you that she immediately regretted what she did. Just not enough to keep her from riding him a second time? Its good that you booted her. You put to much on your SIL, your wife was planning this escapade with her. Don't get me wrong your sister in law is a hore, but your wife is too. Penetration however slight is sufficient to commit the crime. And of course riding him for the second time just confirms it. Divorce her. Start over again. No kids. dump the skank.


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## Thorburn

What are your goal/s for MC? 

To rebuild.
To gain perspective.
To avoid divorce.

In MC (traditionally) you will only get a slim overview of the issues and interventions of infidelity. What you need requires a good thorough treatment of infidelity. You do not need a run of the mill therapist, but someone who has experience in infidelity or you are wasting your time. Couples are more likely to remain married if the A is explored thoroughly and dealt with in a specific targeted manner. You do not want a therapist who is going to focus on general marital problems (a high majority of folks complain that this is what they got in MC). I am looking for a good therapist myself for MC and I know what I am looking for. I do IC professionally and I know this crap fairly well. You do not want a therapist who will encourage you to quickly cover the highlights of the affair and move on. My WS's therapist told her that I do not need to know the details and that we need to move on and stop talking about the affair. That is fine for her but I told my wife that I need more and I will not settle for less and that is how I will move forward. The IC is for her and her therapist has my WS in mind only. If my WS is feeling good then the therapist has met her goal. 

So to avoid disappointment make sure you know your goals. One of mine would be to go into detail of the affair. Yes I want to discuss the details, all the lies, the deception, etc. If a therapist is not willing nor sees this as important then I want someone who does see it this way. 

I forget her name but there is a psycholigist who gets into the nitty gritty of the affair with couples and says that this is the best way to ultimately bring healing. Get it all out. Then work on the healing process.

Again, there are different therapists, different goals and not everyone is the same. I am only giving you what I would want and am looking for in MC. In IC sometimes I do gloss over things because I do not always need the details, other times I get into the nitty gritty because there are times I need to really get into the head of my client to get it out and in the open.

If you continue in MC for the purpose of R, there will be things that you do not want to deal with but a good therapist will confront you, the BS does not get a pass in working in R. And a good therapist will bring up issues of forgiveness, letting go of your anger and bitterness, etc. and you will have to faced this. You are more than likely saying, WTF, but brother, at some point if go for R, you have to change too, because we, you and I can't stay stuck. Also, are you ready to hear what you did wrong, how you suck, etc. Because this will be part of the process, perhaps not from the therapist but from your WS. Again, WTF, she did it, isn't it about her. No, in MC it is about the both of you. MC will be painful. You may not make it to the next session. But in the end a good therapist will be able to put things in perspective for you, assist you in working through a myriad of issues, and have a very good understanding of the process and what you and your WS are going through as well as be a good coach while you are in MC.

If you are looking at D, MC can help you through this transition as well.

MC does not always work. If it is a poor therapist that is one thing but make sure you know your goals or you are just shooting in the dark (no pun intended for anyone in law enforcement).


----------



## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> Right now I'm stuck. I bounce back and forth between starting D, and waiting until Friday to see the MC. Maybe I'm putting too much hope into the MC. I've never been to one before so IDK what to expect.


The most important thing about MC. Think of it like a doctor treating you for a medical condition. If you say your arm hurts and he says that you have a broken ankle you would not accept that diagnosis. You would challenge him to continue searching for a solution or you would get another doctor. MC is no different. The therapists are just people. They may have some knowledge but you are the only one that knows how you feel. You need to make sure that the sessions are addressing things that are important to you. And the therapist must make sure that your wife is held 100% accountable for the affair. You are 50% responsible for any problems that exist in the marriage but the affair is all hers. Keep that in mind.


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## morituri

Now you are giving your SIL too much power. Your wife is an adult and she should know right from wrong. Once she knew what her SIL was doing behind her husband's back, she should have ended all contact with her but she didn't and instead *allowed herself* to be seduced by her unfaithful lifestyle. *Your wife is responsible for her own actions.*.


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## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> I've thought of all these things. I know for a fact that my SIL "recruited" her. I also know that it was my SIL's idea to go to their house. My SIL also encouraged her to "go ahead...go upstairs. I want to be alone w/ "so-and-so anyways""
> 
> I truly believe that this would've never happened if it weren't for my SIL. BUT, it did happen. Nothing can change that. No amount of remorse, ass-kissing, apologies, etc. NOTHING


So your wife relies on others for boundaries? She has no personal boundaries of her own? Are you prepared to be her baby sitter for the entirety of your marriage because she has no boundaries to keep her from doing the wrong thing?


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## gpa

Beowulf said:


> So your wife relies on others for boundaries? She has no personal boundaries of her own? Are you prepared to be her baby sitter for the entirety of your marriage because she has no boundaries to keep her from doing the wrong thing?


His wife ought to have boundaries. Especially under her capacity and profession. Her actions and attitude were inexcusable. But always there is a ... but. He has to verify and I believe he has the ability to do this if this was just a big mistake from her part or a firm decision from her part, based on grounds of emotions and feelings against him or against the marriage.
In the first case he may forgive her if this is what he wants. Otherwise he has to run out of the marriage asap.


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## morituri

gpa said:


> His wife ought to have boundaries. Especially under her capacity and profession. Her actions and attitude were inexcusable. But always there is a ... but. He has to verify and I believe he has the ability to do this if this was just a *big mistake* from her part or a *firm decision* from her part, based on grounds of emotions and feelings against him or against the marriage.
> In the first case he may forgive her if this is what he wants. Otherwise he has to run out of the marriage asap.


It was no mistake, it was a bad choice.

*Mistake*: An act committed without any knowledge of a possible negative outcome.

*Bad Choice*: An act committed with awareness of the possible negative outcome but deciding to ignore it or hoping for the best.


----------



## gpa

morituri said:


> It was no mistake, it was a bad choice.
> 
> *Mistake*: An act committed without any knowledge of a possible negative outcome.
> 
> *Bad Choice*: An act committed with awareness of the possible negative outcome but deciding to ignore it or hoping for the best.


Well actually under my science (Law) a lot of times a mistake is the outcome of either a bad choice or a bad decision. What matters is the volume of negligence. Y can make a mistake and still feel that the outcome may be positive or y r expecting this positive (or negative) outcome. Anyway we do not disagree at all in the present situation. And I believe that in any case her behaviour was a big mistake, either based in a bad choice or a bad decision.


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## WeDoExist

I know it was her fault. I just couldn't believe all that was happening. I've known my SIL for 10 years and up until recently referred to her as my sister, not SIL. And my SIL was talking to me throughout this whole thing and it was all lies lies lies. 

I'm just still in shock that the woman I loved...my best friend... no longer exists. That woman is dead. I am now left w/ an immoral, deceiving, cheating, dangerous, lying, two-faced, easy, poor excuse of a woman. Fk


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## bandit.45

What it boils down to is this: your wife and your sister conspired together to go trolling for a lay. They found willing barflies to hook up with, went to the OM's house and banged their brains out. Your wife is minimizing everything and attempting to unload all the guilt onto the SIL. Truth is they are equally culpable and equally disgraceful, and you should let her know that at this point in time you are looking at her with as much contempt as you are the SIL. 

Get her to submit to a polygraph and STD testing. Get yourself tested too. You should write out the specific questions you want the poly tester to ask her. Make the test a requirement for reconciliation. If she balks then go through with the divorce. 

There is not one thing in your wife's actions that indicate to me she is truly remorseful or contrite. Like the others have said, she playing a waiting game with you, using diversionary tactics to knock you off balance. Stay focused and squeeze the turnip dry....then squeeze it again. I would lay good money down that this is not the first time she has stepped out on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WeDoExist

It WAS a firm decision. A big mistake would've been her going back to the bar, or even exchanging numbers. The fact that she went over there twice and had sex twice on the final meeting says that it was a firm decision. She made it seem like she had sex once, realized it was a huge mistake, then left. That obviously was not the case. Otherwise she would've stopped after #1.


----------



## Thorburn

WeDoExist said:


> I know it was her fault. I just couldn't believe all that was happening. I've known my SIL for 10 years and up until recently referred to her as my sister, not SIL. And my SIL was talking to me throughout this whole thing and it was all lies lies lies.
> 
> I'm just still in shock that the woman I loved...my best friend... no longer exists. That woman is dead. I am now left w/ an immoral, deceiving, cheating, dangerous, lying, two-faced, easy, poor excuse of a woman. Fk


So true. Now what do youd do? My D-day was at the end of November. I am giving R a shot. She is showing remorse, etc.

Times my WS lied over the last year and 1/2. 100's if not 1000's.
Times she told OM #1 and #2 she loved them. Many times.
Times she talked to me or my sons on the phone while she was naked with the OM. Dozens.
Times we were talking on the phone while she was with the OM and telling me that she loved me. About a dozen.
I could go on and on. I am going through a very sucky, self-pitying mood the past several days and feel like I am almost back to square one. And last week was pretty good.

Yea, it is freaking unbelievable. And you will go over all the details again and again. Then find out more. Then you will find inner peace and boom back again to pain. Then you think you have inner peace again and you think about something. You think hold it, what about that or this. You look at the calendar and things do not add up. She had her phone off on that day, she never turned her phone off before. Wait, she came home very late that day, and said she was visiting her mother's grave. Then you find out she was ******* the guy because her phone's GPS has her 30 miles away in the same location she always fuc*** the guy at. And you figure this all out weeks after d-day, because you are in shock and did not get all the details.


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## WeDoExist

Update:
NC is in effect w/ OM and my SIL. WW has since been to doctor, and is all clear. She has agreed to take a polygraph test. I have verified through phone/chat records that she did indeed end contact before I got home. SIL is in damage control mode and is being very defensive. Thought she'd "spill the beans" on my WW... thankfully I was fully aware of everything she told me. Spouse is showing true remorse... She's gotten rid of all "tangible triggers". We did our first session of MC last week. It's gonna be a rough road for sure. WW has happily agreed to any conditions I have. We even clarified our individual "boundaries" when it comes to interactions w/ opposite sex. (They are very conservative) I'm reluctantly optimistic...although her "doing anything to please her man" has been fun. She asks me everyday if I'm going to leave her. Everyday I say...."not today".


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## bandit.45

Glad she is coming around. Remember not to let the counselor let your wife off the hook. Don't let her rugsweep. She needs to find out why her boundaries are so lacking and what she needs to do to keep herself from being tempted. 

You and your wife have a long row to hoe. The next few years are going to be hard on you. Try to get your brother into counseling too. One positive in this whole mess is that it might bring you and your bro closer together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WeDoExist

Thanks bandit. WW also had a nice reality check when I revealed to her that her AP is a felon. (info obtained through legal means, of course) I have plenty of "friends" who have offered their assistance in dealing w/ the OM. (we stick together) I've decided to show the scum some mercy though. He is not worth my time, my career, or my freedom. 

I've learned that he is indeed single. So since there was no OMW to contact, I wrote his parents a nice letter. I'm sure it stings to read that you've raised a POS.


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## Complexity

So your absence was the cause of this and through it, she convinced herself she wasn't in love with you any more? If it takes 8 weeks of you not being there for her to cheat, imagine if the marriage was _really_ bad and you were some abusive husband, what would've she done then? 

bloody hell

Do women really expect to get attention 24/7?!?!


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## bryanp

If the roles had been reversed would your wife have been so forgiving and accepting of such humiliation, disrespect and deceit as you have been? If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## lordmayhem

Complexity said:


> Do women really expect to get attention 24/7?!?!


:iagree:

Yes. But if you aren't working your ass off bringing home the money, then they'll cheat on you too and look on you as a beta and think you have no ambition or dont want to support the family.


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## Complexity

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yes. But if you aren't working your ass off bringing home the money, then they'll cheat on you too and look on you as a beta and think you have no ambition or dont want to support the family.


Exactly, it's not like the OP was out in Vegas or something, he was working to put food on the table. I hate to tout a typically chauvinist argument that women are not very logical but this is just ridiculous.


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## happyman64

WDE,

I am glad you are feeling better and have taken control of the situation at home.

You re acting very Alpha. Keep it up.

By the way I like your attitude.



HTML:


She asks me everyday if I'm going to leave her. Everyday I say...."not today".

Keep it up and stay on top of your WW.

Good Luck

HM64


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## Beowulf

Nice to see things are going well. Two things I'd like to say.

Do not back off on the polygraph test. Make sure this stays on the table and you follow through. Being in law enforcement you know they are not always accurate. However, you also know that if you don't follow through on this you will look weak. Maintain your frame.

Since your wife is a psychologist and in essence a MC be aware that she will know instinctively what the counselor will be looking for. Do not let her manipulate the sessions to the point where you feel like you're feelings are being minimalized. I'm not saying she'll necessarily do this purposefully but you'll be in her world. Make sure you are being heard and considered.

Good luck.


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## bandit.45

Beowulf said:


> Nice to see things are going well. Two things I'd like to say.
> 
> Since your wife is a psychologist and in essence a MC be aware that she will know instinctively what the counselor will be looking for. Do not let her manipulate the sessions to the point where you feel like you're feelings are being minimalized. I'm not saying she'll necessarily do this purposefully but you'll be in her world. Make sure you are being heard and considered.


Absolutley. The minute she tries this the OP needs to stand up and excuse himself from the proceedings. Anything short of full transparency and disclosure in MC on her part should be a dealbreaker for him.


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## WeDoExist

The MC went OK last week. I was very angry the whole time and did not hide it. The MC is trying to help figure out what is going on w/ my wife to where this happened. So far, it's been concluded that my wife has never had a healthy relationship before ours. (well...when it was healthy) The way her father treated her growing up seems to be an issue. His love was conditional, he was overly strict and controlling, OCD, etc. 
In her last relationship before me, her X cheated on her, and had a baby w/ someone else. She knew about the cheating twice and took him back both times. It was only at his funeral (he died in a motorcycle accident) that my wife learned that she was the OW the whole time. Screwed up right?
It sucks because NOW she is being the wife I always needed...loving, great sex, understanding, appreciates her husband, etc. I just don't know if I want it anymore. I don't even look at her the same anymore. I used to adore her...Now at times I'm repulsed. Yesterday, she bought me a card, some magazines, some candy, and wrote me a "love poem". My reaction? Her poem reminded me of the bullsh*t she wrote about the OM in her journal. She knows I'm confused... and I really am. She claims she will "spend the rest of her life making this up to me", but I don't know if that's the life I want.
Update on the OM: He is a felon, no driver's license, on probation, and the list goes on and on. She had "no idea". Of course not...


----------



## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> The MC went OK last week. I was very angry the whole time and did not hide it. The MC is trying to help figure out what is going on w/ my wife to where this happened. So far, it's been concluded that my wife has never had a healthy relationship before ours. (well...when it was healthy) The way her father treated her growing up seems to be an issue. His love was conditional, he was overly strict and controlling, OCD, etc.
> In her last relationship before me, her X cheated on her, and had a baby w/ someone else. She knew about the cheating twice and took him back both times. It was only at his funeral (he died in a motorcycle accident) that my wife learned that she was the OW the whole time. Screwed up right?
> It sucks because NOW she is being the wife I always needed...loving, great sex, understanding, appreciates her husband, etc. I just don't know if I want it anymore. I don't even look at her the same anymore. I used to adore her...Now at times I'm repulsed. Yesterday, she bought me a card, some magazines, some candy, and wrote me a "love poem". My reaction? Her poem reminded me of the bullsh*t she wrote about the OM in her journal. She knows I'm confused... and I really am. She claims she will "spend the rest of her life making this up to me", but I don't know if that's the life I want.
> Update on the OM: He is a felon, no driver's license, on probation, and the list goes on and on. She had "no idea". Of course not...


Give yourself time to sort out your feelings. Some spouses cannot reconcile. They can't get past the betrayal of infidelity. If that is you then you should feel no guilt. You have to decide how you feel. It sounds like your wife is dealing with a lot of issues. You also have to decide if you are willing to stay with her while she resolves these problems. It would be difficult if she hadn't cheated. That brings a whole new level to things. You have a lot of thinking to do. Time is on your side. Don't rush.


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## warlock07

Don't let the anger consume you. You can stay with her or separate. Don't let this make you a bitter person.


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## WeDoExist

Beowulf said:


> Give yourself time to sort out your feelings. Some spouses cannot reconcile. They can't get past the betrayal of infidelity. If that is you then you should feel no guilt. You have to decide how you feel. It sounds like your wife is dealing with a lot of issues. You also have to decide if you are willing to stay with her while she resolves these problems. It would be difficult if she hadn't cheated. That brings a whole new level to things. You have a lot of thinking to do. Time is on your side. Don't rush.


Thanks BW. Is it normal to be in limbo this long? I just don't know if I can get past her betrayal. I don't know if I will ever want her like I used to. It stings to talk about my wife this way, but I look at her like she is a POS wh0re. This whole affair lasted about 3 weeks...but it feels like the betrayal has been a lifetime. After I got home from training, I was in denial and in the process of reclaiming her. Now that I've reclaimed her...I don't know if I still want her. Sometimes I feel bad for not giving her a straight answer, but I would be lying to her and myself if I did give her one. I just don't know. 
She's simply not the woman I fell in love with. That woman is gone. I don't know if I want to rebuild things w/ the shell of a woman that is left.


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## WeDoExist

warlock07 said:


> Don't let the anger consume you. You can stay with her or separate. Don't let this make you a bitter person.


I feel resentment overcoming me every single day. I keep waiting to see if it will subside, but it's getting worse.


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## warlock07

Wait it out a little bit. In the mean time, don't get her pregnant. Use this forum to vent.


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## Shaggy

It sounds like your wife needs someone around her that is demanding and conditional on accepting her. Only when she has to do the work does she feel attractted.

Her father, her sleazy ex, SIL,the OM, and now you the hurt husband.

If true, then figiving too easily, and rug sweeping will really bite you hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WeDoExist

No worries about pregnancy. I know better than that. Before this, we were trying to have kids; or so I thought. Thank GOD that didn't happen. Thanks warlock


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## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> Thanks BW. Is it normal to be in limbo this long? I just don't know if I can get past her betrayal. I don't know if I will ever want her like I used to. It stings to talk about my wife this way, but I look at her like she is a POS wh0re. This whole affair lasted about 3 weeks...but it feels like the betrayal has been a lifetime. After I got home from training, I was in denial and in the process of reclaiming her. Now that I've reclaimed her...I don't know if I still want her. Sometimes I feel bad for not giving her a straight answer, but I would be lying to her and myself if I did give her one. I just don't know.
> She's simply not the woman I fell in love with. That woman is gone. I don't know if I want to rebuild things w/ the shell of a woman that is left.


It really does take 2-5 years to get over this kind of betrayal. The trauma has been compared to having a car accident and the trauma that soldiers who have been in battle experience. And this is by trained psychologists who deal with this on a daily basis. Do not underestimate the time its going to take to recover. That's why I said take your time. The pain does get better but not any time soon I'm afraid.

You are correct. The woman you fell in love with is gone forever. In some ways she never really existed at all. It was just your perception of her. Now she has done something to alter your perception and destroy the idea of your wife. In order to stay with her you need to fall in love with the woman that is real. If you can in some ways your relationship can be healthier because there won't be any rose colored glasses clouding your view. But that's only if you get to that point. You may not, many don't.

In my case the woman that I fell in love with after my wife's affair turned out to be stronger and more alive than the woman I thought she was. I grew to appreciate the new woman as I still mourned for the loss of the woman I married. Its a tough transition believe me. That's why you have to consider this an entirely new marriage because both you and your wife are not the people you were before.


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## bandit.45

WeDoExist said:


> I feel resentment overcoming me every single day. I keep waiting to see if it will subside, but it's getting worse.


You need individual counseling. As a cop you should have access to a counselor who specializes in PTSD. The trauma you are going through is the same as what someone has been in a firefight goes through. The counselor can teach you techniques to deal with your anger. 

Take your time with your wife. Understand that the woman has not changed. You are now just seeing the real her. Up until the affair she was putting on a performance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> It sounds like your wife needs someone around her that is demanding and conditional on accepting her. Only when she has to do the work does she feel attractted.
> 
> Her father, her sleazy ex, SIL,the OM, and now you the hurt husband.
> 
> If true, then figiving too easily, and rug sweeping will really bite you hard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I second this. You cannot forgive too easily. You must make the affair your wife's responsibility entirely. Earlier in the thread you seemed to want to place a lot of the blame on your SIL. Put that thought right out of your mind. Your wife made the choices, your wife must face the consequences whatever they are.


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## warlock07

Get going in some sort of physical activity. Join a martial arts class or a boxing class. They can be great stress relievers.


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## WeDoExist

Shaggy said:


> It sounds like your wife needs someone around her that is demanding and conditional on accepting her. Only when she has to do the work does she feel attractted.
> 
> Her father, her sleazy ex, SIL,the OM, and now you the hurt husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're so right Shaggy. It's as if she is not happy w/ a man that accepts her as she is. She needs a "challenge". She seems to think that she can change the "Mr. Unavailables" out there. We've had this conversation... She is attacted to the guy that uses the "push-pull" method to reel in a woman. I've explained to her that this is the oldest trick in the book, and how many times does she need to be fooled by it? Do you guys agree that any guy that truly wants to be w/ a woman will NOT "push-pull"? I've told her that we men know that women like to feel like they're in control, and need a challenge...and that we manipulate that to get what we want: SEX


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## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> You're so right Shaggy. It's as if she is not happy w/ a man that accepts her as she is. She needs a "challenge". She seems to think that she can change the "Mr. Unavailables" out there. We've had this conversation... She is attacted to the guy that uses the "push-pull" method to reel in a woman. I've explained to her that this is the oldest trick in the book, and how many times does she need to be fooled by it? Do you guys agree that any guy that truly wants to be w/ a woman will NOT "push-pull"? I've told her that we men know that women like to feel like they're in control, and need a challenge...and that we manipulate that to get what we want: SEX


Its a fact that women want a man that COULD cheat but CHOOSES not to cheat. They want a man that has options but decided to be with them. It validates them as a woman. It's why PUA use this to get women. If a guy in a bar looks too eager he will strike out. If a guy looks like he really doesn't care about the woman she is interested in him.


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## morituri

Ok you gave us the rundown on the MC but what about the IC for both of you?


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## WeDoExist

I am doing IC. I started about 4 months ago. It's been very beneficial to me. I still go every week.
I messed up w/ some things at first. I was rug-sweeping and placing too much blame on my SIL. But that is done with. I was in shock/denial. I'm now angry/hurt. There hasn't been a day that has gone by that we haven't talked about this. Her acceptance of her actions and her apologies are promising...but I just don't really care. I cannot get over the fact that the woman I loved...my best friend and lover... fkin screwed me over and hung me out to dry for some piece of sh!t. I don't know if I'll ever get over that.


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## Shaggy

Perhaps she would respond to the no more mr.nice guy approach ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WeDoExist

Wife was doing IC. She was talking w/ her therapist the whole time. After they "made out", her therapist told her "a kiss never hurt anyone". After she fked him, her therapist told her not to tell me, and that she knew that if my wife saw him again, she would go through with it. After D-Day, her therapist told her that I would just "get over it". To hell with that! That therapist is GONE and WW is looking for a new one. Has an appointment next week. I've also informed my insurance about this rug-sweeping, marriage hating witch.
Keep in mind: I do NOT give my wife any slack for this. She knows that I don't give a damn what anyone else says to her...she knows right from wrong and should have come to ME w/ her problems.


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## WeDoExist

Shaggy said:


> Perhaps she would respond to the no more mr.nice guy approach ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh she is. Sadly, I'm not doing it on purpose and do not desire her attraction. No "game" here...just disgust!


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## warlock07

I think there is an obvious relation between her not being sure about marriage in Jan and the affair she had in Feb. It was some sort of an exit affair, only that she did not exit.


----------



## WeDoExist

warlock07 said:


> I think there is an obvious relation between her not being sure about marriage in Jan and the affair she had in Feb. It was some sort of an exit affair, only that she did not exit.


I agree. Except I think that when she saw me, she freaked out and didn't want the M to end. When I left for training, I was looking forward to the time by myself. PTSD and some other issues, including finally accepting and dealing w/ sexual abuse as a child, had left me anti-social and w/ low self-esteem. I made it my mission to work hard in my IC, figure out what was missing w/ the marriage, and find the man I was meant to be while I was gone. I made a lot of progress during those 8 weeks, and it is continuing. The more confident I become, the less I want to be w/ her.

When I got home, I was in better shape than I had been in years. I lost about 15 pounds, gained some confidence, and got a huge "Don't Tread On Me" tattoo on my forearm (the day after she cheated). She couldn't and still can't resist me. The funny thing is that I told her before I left that I was aware of my personal issues and that I was facing them head-on. Why couldn't she just have waited...? I guess it chocks up to the old saying "you can lead a horse to water...but you can't make it drink"


----------



## bandit.45

In this case it would be "You can lead a WW to monogamy but you can't make her keep her skirt down."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

It doesn't matter her changing counselors, she sought out one that would support her in her infidelity. And that's exactly what she will find again. She is not looking for accountability, she is looking for someone to wink and turn a blind eye to her cheating. Being a psychologist herself, and by her choice of her own counselor, she is almost guaranteed to be a big fan of moral relativity. No black, no white, just grey. Stay strong.


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## Beowulf

WeDoExist said:


> I agree. Except I think that when she saw me, she freaked out and didn't want the M to end. When I left for training, I was looking forward to the time by myself. PTSD and some other issues, including finally accepting and dealing w/ sexual abuse as a child, had left me anti-social and w/ low self-esteem. I made it my mission to work hard in my IC, figure out what was missing w/ the marriage, and find the man I was meant to be while I was gone. I made a lot of progress during those 8 weeks, and it is continuing. The more confident I become, the less I want to be w/ her.
> 
> When I got home, I was in better shape than I had been in years. I lost about 15 pounds, gained some confidence, and got a huge "Don't Tread On Me" tattoo on my forearm (the day after she cheated). She couldn't and still can't resist me. The funny thing is that I told her before I left that I was aware of my personal issues and that I was facing them head-on. Why couldn't she just have waited...? I guess it chocks up to the old saying "you can lead a horse to water...but you can't make it drink"


Sounds like she saw you as weak before you left and when you came back she saw what she would be losing. Its natural as you gain confidence you will feel more independent and less likely to accept her crap. She needs to do the work to win you back but only you can decide if she's winning you back or not.

BTW, you can't make the horse drink but you can sure as hell drown the damned thing.


----------



## morituri

From *3 Ways to Erase Post-Affair Anger*. I hope it helps.



Stephanie Anderson said:


> *3 Ways to Erase Post-Affair Anger*
> 
> Have you been cheated on and since turned into an “angry” person?
> 
> The majority of people who have been cheated on will experience anger as of the many emotions they feel after finding out about their spouse’s affair. And for some, they find that, where they were once a happy person, they now feel angry all the time—and people are noticing.
> 
> Today’s blog will help you, if you’ve been cheated on, to defuse post-affair anger 3 different ways, as well as offer an explanation for why anger is lingering. And if you haven’t been cheated on but still experience bouts of anger in your relationship with your spouse, the same tips can help you, as well. Read on…
> 
> *Why Post-Affair Anger May Linger*
> 
> You’ve been cheated on—you have every right to be angry. For your spouse to betray you by developing a sexual relationship with someone else is the worst kind of double-cross.
> 
> You’re hurt, humiliated—and feel a deep sense of anger that your spouse could do this to you, and that anger doesn’t seem to let go. It’s tearing you apart inside, literally, causing sleepless nights, changed appetite and hostile, negative thoughts.
> 
> Anger is a normal emotion and nothing to be ashamed about. We all experience anger at times, unless you’re a saint. But if anger is clinging to your life and coloring your world a dark shade of gray, you need to find a way to let it go.
> 
> If it is the result of your spouse’s betrayal, the betrayal itself may have taken place months ago, but the anger still lingers today. There’s a point where your anger can become chronic—a bad habit—and you become what people refer to as an “angry person.”
> 
> One explanation for why anger can become chronic is because there is some issue that remains unresolved. It could be that your spouse is not being remorseful or hasn’t completely cut ties with the paramour. Or, it could be that you have not given yourself the time, space and attention to work through and process all of your negative emotions.
> 
> After you found out about your spouse’s affair, have you:
> 
> 1- Been acknowledging and working through the post-affair anger?
> 
> 2- Trying to ignore, sidestep or otherwise tamp down those angry feelings?
> 
> 3- Allowing the angry thoughts and emotions to take over, unchallenged?
> 
> If you are working through the anger, then you are on track for being yourself once again, taking pleasure in life and feeling positive.
> 
> But if you have been ignoring your anger, it remains below the surface, festering and growing. If anger has taken over and become chronic—and you allow this state to go on—then you are heading into becoming an angry person who is recognized for their anger instead of for your true, underlying personality.
> 
> Next, I’ll share with you how to defuse anger so you can begin to heal.
> 
> *The 3 Different Ways to Defuse Anger*
> 
> If you have tried to ignore anger in hopes it goes away, or allowed it to invade your life to the point that it defines you, I want you to try any or all of the following three methods for defusing anger. When you’re caught up in the post-affair, emotional maelstrom—you need a life buoy to cling to until you get to safety. These methods will help pull you safely from the turmoil you currently find yourself in to a place where you can once again feel solid ground beneath your feet.
> 
> *Anger Defuser #1: React to Angry Thoughts Immediately*
> 
> When you experience an angry or hostile thought, don’t let it slip past without a reprimand or challenge of some kind. Otherwise, angry thoughts can begin to feel a little too comfortable invading your mind and hijacking your emotions any time they like.
> 
> Angry thoughts serve a purpose—to let you know that something isn’t sitting right with you—so acknowledge that, but also challenge the thought itself: on what basis is this thought coming forward? Is it steeped in truth, or the work of imagination? Is it something that is true all the time, or in just one or two instances?
> 
> *Anger Defuser #2: Cool Down Using Distractions*
> 
> When you feel angry thoughts taking over, distract yourself with something else. Some people swear by exercise, working up a sweat and letting the anger ebb away. Others pick up a book, turn on the television, or cook. It’s difficult to focus on angry thoughts when your attention is needed elsewhere. And it is much more pleasant to focus on something that makes you happy until the anger passes.
> 
> *Anger Defuser #3: Catch Anger Early*
> 
> Often, we allow anger to simmer and then it boils over into a rage. At that point, the horse is out of the barn and difficult to lead back.
> 
> When you feel anger simmering, write out what is going on inside instead of waiting for it to build and then lashing out. Most people have a negative feeling about themselves after lashing out in anger, and you do not want to heap more negative feelings on yourself as you are trying to heal from post-affair pain or otherwise work toward saving your marriage.
> 
> My best to you as you work to defuse anger and heal.


----------



## TDSC60

Sounds to me like you worked through your personal issues.

Also sounds like a physical affair is a deal-breaker for you. As much as you think you might want to work through this, you may not be able to forgive what she has done - very few self respecting men could forgive this. It is the ultimate act of disrespect and betrayal.

You are young, the marriage is very new, no kids - get out and move on with your life.


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## Beowulf

Good post Mori


----------



## WeDoExist

Thanks for the post about anger Mori. I printed that and will look at it everyday.

TDSC: You hit the nail on the head. I've been unsure about whether or not it is a deal-breaker. Some days I feel it is, while others I feel that we can work past this. My wife is convinced that we can "be stronger than ever". I just don't know if I'm convinced. I don't know if I can ever "feel in love" with her again. 

I just don't know what to make of this uncertainty.


----------



## WeDoExist

Just talked w/ the wife over the phone. My best bud and his wife are having a baby today. I told my wife that it was kind of bittersweet because that is where I wanted to be (before). She then said that she wished we did have a baby because then she "wouldn't have been going out to bars all the time". I then said "well the fact that you are married means you should not have been going to bars". She then got defensive and said "well now I never want to have a baby w/ you" I said "ok goodbye". 

I am thinking about telling her we need to separate tonight.


----------



## Entropy3000

WeDoExist said:


> Just talked w/ the wife over the phone. My best bud and his wife are having a baby today. I told my wife that it was kind of bittersweet because that is where I wanted to be (before). She then said that she wished we did have a baby because then she "wouldn't have been going out to bars all the time". I then said "well the fact that you are married means you should not have been going to bars". She then got defensive and said "well now I never want to have a baby w/ you" I said "ok goodbye".
> 
> I am thinking about telling her we need to separate tonight.


Very sad. She basically felt atttacked and wanted to hurt you. The conversation did not have to go this way. Her better answer was "I see that now and I am sorry I did what I did". But she may have felt she had every right to run the bars on the prowl. I have seen women with children just get a baby sitter and run the bars and be on the prowl anyway.

Let her go. You are lucky you did not have a baby with her in hindsight. Sorry. But you just dodged a bullet. For some reason she has real contempt for you and does not respect you. No telling why. Cut your losses.

FWIW, a separation is often an excuse for one partner or the other to have an affair. It frees them up for that. IF you are not sure you want a divorce I suggest you cannot work on this while separated. Just my opinion. If you separate she will be back running the bars and picking up guys just to spite you.


----------



## morituri

WeDoExist said:


> Just talked w/ the wife over the phone. My best bud and his wife are having a baby today. I told my wife that it was kind of bittersweet because that is where I wanted to be (before). She then said that she wished we did have a baby because then she "wouldn't have been going out to bars all the time". I then said "well the fact that you are married means you should not have been going to bars". *She then got defensive and said "well now I never want to have a baby w/ you" I said "ok goodbye"*.
> 
> I am thinking about telling her we need to separate tonight.


Separation is crap and is often used to live life like a single person while having the option of going back to the marriage if things don't turn out as expected. File for divorce instead.


----------



## bandit.45

Yep. File for divorce and have her served. See how she flaps her trap about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat

bandit.45 said:


> You need individual counseling. As a cop you should have access to a counselor who specializes in PTSD. The trauma you are going through is the same as what someone has been in a firefight goes through. The counselor can teach you techniques to deal with your anger.
> 
> Take your time with your wife. Understand that the woman has not changed. You are now just seeing the real her. Up until the affair she was putting on a performance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To some degree, we are all performing. The real person is defined by consistency in the performance. Your WW has gone way off script. My wife has a similar history, only it was her mom who administered the emotional trauma. That makes her poor choices understandable, but not excusable. Don't make any hasty decision if she seems truly remorseful. It will take time to sort out your emotional state. Heck, I wasn't sure I even wanted to survive for a couple of years. Take the above advice and check in w/ an IC; that can make a world of difference.


----------



## snap

This doesn't bode well with the "stronger than ever" part.


----------



## Initfortheduration

WeDoExist said:


> Just talked w/ the wife over the phone. My best bud and his wife are having a baby today. I told my wife that it was kind of bittersweet because that is where I wanted to be (before). She then said that she wished we did have a baby because then she "wouldn't have been going out to bars all the time". I then said "well the fact that you are married means you should not have been going to bars". She then got defensive and said "well now I never want to have a baby w/ you" I said "ok goodbye".
> 
> I am thinking about telling her we need to separate tonight.


Man, you're kind. That certainly wasn't a 2x4. After she said the crap about not being a bar fly if she had a baby. I would have told her "how the hell would I know it was mine without a DNA test?

Are you getting a clear a picture of her yet. No contrition, not much guilt. You deserve better. If she is not a mascara and snot running mess, she doesn't want it bad enough. Divorce her.


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## happyman64

WDE,

You dealt with your personal issues recently in a head on manner.

Time to do the same with your marriage.

You guys have not been married very long. You are young.

Why worry about if you can get over the PA when you do not have to? Your wife does not seem very remorseful.

If she could act in this manner with you only gone for a few weeks she has personal issues that you cannot fix or control.

Time to think long and hard what you want to do. But Mori is right, separation is a farce. Either commit to the marriage or divorce.

Divorce takes time and you might get a positive reaction from her. And if you do not get a positive action from her then you made the right decision because the marriage did not mean much to her.

Move on young man and find a good, loyal woman. I did over twenty years ago and it was the best decision of my life. That is why I am the Happyman!!!!

Go find your happiness too......

Hm64


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## TDSC60

She does not show sorrow or guilt or concern for what she has done. She is trying to blame it on everything but what it actually is, a feeling of selfish entitlement.

She feels that she is entitled to do whatever crosses her mind without regard to the pain and damage she causes you.

Others are correct - separation is just a license for an unfaithful spouse to go out and party with any drunken yo-yo she crosses paths with while keeping the betrayed spouse at home wondering when she will "wake up". The only trouble is that she will never wake up while you are hanging on to the marriage.

File for divorce. You do not have to see it through to the end and it can be stopped at anytime before the final papers are signed by a judge. That will give you a time of separation from her and time to get your head on straight. If it doesn't work out - you are ahead of the game.


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## bandit.45

TDSC60 said:


> File for divorce. You do not have to see it through to the end and it can be stopped at anytime before the final papers are signed by a judge. That will give you a time of separation from her and time to get your head on straight. If it doesn't work out - you are ahead of the game.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Chaparral

WeDoExist said:


> Just talked w/ the wife over the phone. My best bud and his wife are having a baby today. I told my wife that it was kind of bittersweet because that is where I wanted to be (before). She then said that she wished we did have a baby because then she "wouldn't have been going out to bars all the time". I then said "well the fact that you are married means you should not have been going to bars". She then got defensive and said "well now I never want to have a baby w/ you" I said "ok goodbye".
> 
> I am thinking about telling her we need to separate tonight.


I know she has done the unacceptable. However,she was reaching out to you about having babies and ,understandbly but wrongly, you gave her a cruel rebuke. She then said the first thing that came to her mind to hurt you back. I'm sure she is also going through hell.

You should try to be strong and be positive with out being walked on whether or not you decide to divorce. Stop the petty snipeing, argueing. You say you talk about the affair everyday. You need to make an arrangement with your wife to only talk about the situation every three or four days. Make a list, and discuss the questions, actions you want to talk about. Right now you are letting your anger control your life. If you are getting angry shut up walk away and grab a barbell. It works wonders. Do not discuss anything with her when your emotions are out of control. No relationship, good or bad, can with stand that. Make certain you are sharing some positve experiences. Neither you nor your wife one can bear unrelenting drama.

Also remember with anger comes an adrenalin rush that is as easily addicting as any other chemical substance. Work on yourself control and make logical decisions.


----------



## gpa

chapparal said:


> I know she has done the unacceptable. However,she was reaching out to you about having babies and ,understandbly but wrongly, you gave her a cruel rebuke. She then said the first thing that came to her mind to hurt you back. I'm sure she is also going through hell.
> 
> You should try to be strong and be positive with out being walked on whether or not you decide to divorce. Stop the petty snipeing, argueing. You say you talk about the affair everyday. You need to make an arrangement with your wife to only talk about the situation every three or four days. Make a list, and discuss the questions, actions you want to talk about. Right now you are letting your anger control your life. If you are getting angry shut up walk away and grab a barbell. It works wonders. Do not discuss anything with her when your emotions are out of control. No relationship, good or bad, can with stand that. Make certain you are sharing some positve experiences. Neither you nor your wife one can bear unrelenting drama.
> 
> Also remember with anger comes an adrenalin rush that is as easily addicting as any other chemical substance. Work on yourself control and make logical decisions.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## river rat

Even if you decide to separate, keep in mind Morituris's post re anger. The negative emotions will destroy your from the inside; I've been there, done that. Every morning sit on the side of the bed and think of the things you are grateful for. Put the dark stuff to the side for just a few minutes. Continue w/ your IC. You are dealing w/ a huge pile of stuff right now, but this,too, will pass.


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## warlock07

I am not sure. While she should be open to talk about her affair, you shouldn't lead every conversation to her affair. It is counter produtive if you are in for R


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## Thorburn

warlock07 said:


> I am not sure. While she should be open to talk about her affair, you shouldn't lead every conversation to her affair. It is counter produtive if you are in for R


I agree with Warlock. Tonight my WS and I talked twice for about a hour each time. I had some issues to talk about and started the conversation in an angry manner. I stopped. I thought to myself these issues can wait. And I then asked her about her day (she started a new job). I then asked her to go on-line to look at room colors for the house we are buying. I kept it light even though I want to talk about issues I put it aside for today.


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## morituri

Thorburn said:


> I had some issues to talk about and started the conversation in an angry manner. I stopped.


Way to go Thorburn. It looks like you successfully used one or two of the anger defusers. Keep on doing it.


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## WeDoExist

Thank you all for the comments and support. I am still on an emotional roller coaster going from one extreme to the next. I do agree that I need to stop throwing this in her face. It's just hard to find a balance that says "i know you love me and are not a bad person, but what you did was horrible and humiliating". 
Last night she was a hot mess... I told her that I was feeling very negative about things and was considering filing for D. She was screaming "no,no,no...you're killing me. I cant live without you" and cried herself to sleep after about 3 hours. It hurts to see anyone in that much despair. 

I read her journal after she went to bed. It was very sad and desperate. She wrote things like "I don't know if I will ever find a man that loves me like WDE"..."I hope to God he doesn't leave me but I deserve it if he does"..."I was so stupid to give up so easily when he never gave up on me"..."I would do anything to take it back"..."I can't believe how bad I f'ed up my life and threw it away for nothing". She wrote this before I got home. I wish her commitment was this unwaivering before the PA. 

She is showing true remorse and humility. My attacks and cruel comments are not helping. I read mori's post on anger again today and it is sinking in. At this point I am not investing anything else in the M but am willing to give it more time. We go to MC again in two days. In the meantime I am going to work on dealing with my anger and resentment. I will be better for it either way.


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## WeDoExist

Thorburn said:


> I agree with Warlock. Tonight my WS and I talked twice for about a hour each time. I had some issues to talk about and started the conversation in an angry manner. I stopped. I thought to myself these issues can wait. And I then asked her about her day (she started a new job). I then asked her to go on-line to look at room colors for the house we are buying. I kept it light even though I want to talk about issues I put it aside for today.


How often do you talk about the A? Do you schedule it? What are your goals when you talk about it? Your strength regarding the above situation is admirable. Thank you for sharing your good example.


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## bandit.45

I usually don't promote separation, but this might be a situation where a couple weeks off from her might be a good thing for both of you. You need to cool off and get yourself under control. Flying off the handle is not going to help the situation. You need to be the adult here. Is there anywhere you can go and just chill for a while? You can continue going to MC while putting some space between the two of you to get some perspective on things. Right now you and her are just reacting and firing off each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

> In the meantime I am going to work on dealing with my anger and resentment. I will be better for it either way.


WDE,

That is the most sense you have made throughout your horrible journey.... You need to keep the anger in check.

It sucks to be on this infidelity ride that you never asked for but you will come out of the other side as a better man no matter what happens.

You both need to calm down a little. You have to control the anger so the situation for both of you is not made worse.

Get to MC and talk, vent and discuss there. No matter how hurt you are if you keep slinging the mud all you will get is a big pile of s**t for a marriage.

Time is on your side. Use it to get control of your emotions.

It is good that your wife is showing remorse and knows what a huge mistake she made.

Just use the time collect your thoughts, get your anger under control and do not make any big decisions until you are feeling more in control of the situation.

HM64


----------



## cabin fever

I'm 6 months out from D-Day (my wife had a 6month PA) 

It does get easier. Your wife is showing remorse. She is doing all she can. Yes she caused it, but you will never get past it if you don't want to try also. 

I did the same thing as you, and got angry, and threw it in her face weekly. It did no good. I didn't feel any better afterwards, and she was always a mess afterwards. So I screamed, yelled, and threw it in her face, but I didn't feel any better, and she felt worse. What good is that? 

its perfectly understandable that your pissed. You should be. But "if" you want to save the marriage you have to forgive, and move on with life. Doesn't mean you forget, but you have to start to focus on the future at some point. 

What helped me, was the the actions she did, to prove she was devoted to me, and our marriage. She has done everything I asked. If she could figure out a way to take it all back, there is no doubt in my mind she would, but we both know that won't happen. You will never get on with life, if you dwell on the past. Find out why it happend, figure out what to do to make sure it never happens again, and move on (but don't forget) 

Its a crappy situation to be in, and none of us want to be in it ( I wouldn't wish my feelings, and emotions on ANYONE), but at the end of the day, we are faced with it. How we react to the situation, says alot about our character. 

And believe me, I have a very short temper. I have a hard time keeping my cool, when I get pissed. BUT, i have realized it, and am dealing with it too. The more my wife sees me working on things, the harder she works on them too. 

good luck. 

do you honestly feel better about yourself after you have a fight? I am willing to bet you don't. You need to try to figure out how to talk/communicate without blowing up. Trust me, it isn't easy.


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## ahhnold

if you take her back man i think she will LOSE RESPECT for YOU. if she is a "push pull " person how can she otherwise ??? a woman that does NOT respect her husband is a marriage doomed. sure her meter for "push-pull" drama is full to the brim and she is thirsting for you madly. but when it subsides in a few years then what ???? when the marriage is at peace, calm and tranquil will she relapse to the garbage she gave you just a few months ago ---- "she wasn't sure if we should've gotten married, she's not attracted to me sexually anymore, she doesn't want to wake up as a middle aged woman full of regret, that she's not in love with me anymore" see that's the root of the whole problem.a person who has a "push-pull" mentality CAN NOT be CONTENT with love, compassion and mercy. she will always need some kind of bittnerness. drama. pain to make her happy and appreciative of what she has. such a person is disturbed mentally. and this the last thing you need in your life when your trying to recover from PTSD. This woman isn't a healing force in your life. 

i really truly believe a woman with a " push pull " outlook on relationships will somewhere in the back of the her mind feel "i got away with it.no divorce. I Won." and subsequently lose respect for her Man. 

***you need to separate from her *** so you can detach from all this emotional heat and gain clairty of mind so you can look at the FACTS. all this hot air with tears of " i can't live with out you " and all the bait she wrote in her journal. ( come on brother. she knew you would snoop in her journal ) isn't genuine. isn't sincere love. it's rooted and based on people always wanting what they can't have. it's that simple.


also have you considered do you want her to be the mother of your children ??? i view a woman that is a " push pull " mentality as a person with a MENTAL ILLNESS. is this the kind of Mother you want for your daughter ??? is this the female role model you want your daughter to have ???? your future daughter will be influenced by her mother's disposition and outlook on life. don't kid yourself. it will happen. is that what you want ??? 

one last thing to consider. you work for law enforcement. which is long hours and sometimes working all nighters. can you trust a woman to be loyal to you while your working at 3am in the morning. a woman who betrayed you in your newly wed years !!! 2nd year of marriage and already getting nailed by some guy at the bar !!!!! i don't see how this particular woman can be faithful to you considering the career you have or be a healthy positive mother to your future children


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## warlock07

Don't take your anger into the abuse territory. There is only so much even the most patient WS can take. I agree with bandit. Separation will be good for you now until your anger subsides.


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## bandit.45

Absolutely no sex either for the time being. You don't need to get her pregnant and make a bad situation worse. And she needs to earn the privelege to have you share her bed. You have to reestablish trust before you can be intimate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WeDoExist

ahhnold said:


> if you take her back man i think she will LOSE RESPECT for YOU. if she is a "push pull " person how can she otherwise ??? after this emotional roller coaster subsides and you take her back she will think " i got away with it.no divorce. I Won. " despite all this " i can't live with out you " and all the bait she wrote in her journal. ( come on. she knew you would snoop in her journal ) have you forgotten a few months ago she told you "she wasn't sure if we should've gotten married, she's not attracted to me sexually anymore, she doesn't want to wake up as a middle aged woman full of regret, that she's not in love with me anymore" ----people always want what they can't have. and this is what your experiencing from her. it's Not SINCERE GENUINE love.


Thanks for your comment. She hides her journal and doesn't know that I read it. But anyways... Her desire for a "push-pull" relationship is unhealthy for sure. She has never had a healthy relationship where there wasn't a pursuer and an evader. She has been on both sides. I was the pursuer in our M. I know this. She knows this. We had a power struggle in our relationship that I lost (let her win, actually). This is half my fault. 
I grew up with an extremely controlling and invasive mother. The dynamics of my parents' relationship is truly screwed up. My mother has always had the control and I witnessed her humiliate my dad countless times throughout my life. This is the only type of relationship I had known. I see how I fell into similar relationships. They were "normal" to me. Sadly I didn't realize how screwed up things were until recently. I've set my relationship w/ my mom straight. I've confronted her about her control issues and have told her that our relationship will be minimal at best until she starts respecting others' boundaries, including my own. 

There has been a major "power-shift" in my marriage since I've "seen the light". I will never let the power/control dynamic of our relationship sway to unhealthy levels again. I won't accept it and the WW knows that. She obviously didn't want or like having most of the power. Seriously...what woman wants a man that lets her have all the power? That is no excuse for cheating but it was a factor. 

I was a beta w/ my marriage and I know it. Thankfully I know that that is not who I am. I just allowed it to happen for too long. I have been so used to "commanding respect" everyday that I just didn't feel like I should have to at home...and frankly didn't care to. Well that situation sucked and is no longer my reality. It took a sh!tty wake-up call...but nonetheless knowledge is power. My wife did NOT respect me. But I'll be damned if I'll allow that to happen again. Now, I tell her what I want and she does it because she wants to please me. She knows that she can trust me, confide in me, and that I will protect her from anything. And that deserves respect. Hell...the last time I told her to please me, she said "Anything for my man", then proceeded to give me a kickass bj, rode me hard enough to knock the picture off the wall, then did the ATM without my asking or a second thought.. And and she took it like a champ. Classic


----------



## WeDoExist

bandit.45 said:


> Absolutely no sex either for the time being. You don't need to get her pregnant and make a bad situation worse. And she needs to earn the privelege to have you share her bed. You have to reestablish trust before you can be intimate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too late for that. (No worry about pregnancy) But I've held back since.


----------



## TDSC60

I'm not sure MC is going to be productive while you are still on the fence about wanting to stay married to her.

Maybe a few sessions with an IC on your own to help get you though the anger so you can make a rational decision about what you truly want would be a better start.

You have to be in hell right now when you think about her going back time after time to meet this guy until she sealed the deal with him. Anger and rage is the flavor of the day now, so you have to deal with this first before even attempting MC - if that is what you eventually decide.


----------



## morituri

WeDoExist said:


> She is showing true remorse and humility. My attacks and cruel comments are not helping. I read mori's post on anger again today and it is sinking in. At this point I am not investing anything else in the M but am willing to give it more time. We go to MC again in two days. In the meantime I am going to work on dealing with my anger and resentment. I will be better for it either way.



Remember the native American story of the grandfather telling his little grandson the tale of the two wolves engaged in eternal battle? One wolf represented everything evil and the other represented everything good. The little grandson asks "Which wolf is stronger?" and the grandfather replied "The one you feed". Which wolf will you feed WDE?


----------



## Jonesey

morituri said:


> Remember the native American story of the grandfather telling his little grandson the tale of the two wolves engaged in eternal battle? One wolf represented everything evil and the other represented everything good. The little grandson asks "Which wolf is stronger?" and the grandfather replied "The one you feed". Which wolf will you feed WDE?


Thanks for this post..This little story will come in handy.
For when ever life sadly decade to throw me a insane
curve ball.


----------



## WeDoExist

TDSC60 said:


> I'm not sure MC is going to be productive while you are still on the fence about wanting to stay married to her.
> 
> Maybe a few sessions with an IC on your own to help get you though the anger so you can make a rational decision about what you truly want would be a better start.
> 
> You have to be in hell right now when you think about her going back time after time to meet this guy until she sealed the deal with him. Anger and rage is the flavor of the day now, so you have to deal with this first before even attempting MC - if that is what you eventually decide.


I've been doing weekly IC for a few months now. It helps but I am a bit skeptical of psychotherapy right now. But I am still putting in effort for myself. We have already done two MC sessions. They are helping me to understand what went wrong, as well as help me process my feelings.


----------



## morituri

Psychotherapy can give you the tools to heal but it is up to you to use them.


----------



## ahhnold

WeDoExist said:


> Thanks for your comment. She hides her journal and doesn't know that I read it. But anyways... Her desire for a "push-pull" relationship is unhealthy for sure. She has never had a healthy relationship where there wasn't a pursuer and an evader. She has been on both sides. I was the pursuer in our M. I know this. She knows this. We had a power struggle in our relationship that I lost (let her win, actually). This is half my fault.
> I grew up with an extremely controlling and invasive mother. The dynamics of my parents' relationship is truly screwed up. My mother has always had the control and I witnessed her humiliate my dad countless times throughout my life. This is the only type of relationship I had known. I see how I fell into similar relationships. They were "normal" to me. Sadly I didn't realize how screwed up things were until recently. I've set my relationship w/ my mom straight. I've confronted her about her control issues and have told her that our relationship will be minimal at best until she starts respecting others' boundaries, including my own.
> 
> There has been a major "power-shift" in my marriage since I've "seen the light". I will never let the power/control dynamic of our relationship sway to unhealthy levels again. I won't accept it and the WW knows that. She obviously didn't want or like having most of the power. Seriously...what woman wants a man that lets her have all the power? That is no excuse for cheating but it was a factor.
> 
> I was a beta w/ my marriage and I know it. Thankfully I know that that is not who I am. I just allowed it to happen for too long. I have been so used to "commanding respect" everyday that I just didn't feel like I should have to at home...and frankly didn't care to. Well that situation sucked and is no longer my reality. It took a sh!tty wake-up call...but nonetheless knowledge is power. My wife did NOT respect me. But I'll be damned if I'll allow that to happen again. Now, I tell her what I want and she does it because she wants to please me. She knows that she can trust me, confide in me, and that I will protect her from anything. And that deserves respect. Hell...the last time I told her to please me, she said "Anything for my man", then proceeded to give me a kickass bj, rode me hard enough to knock the picture off the wall, then did the ATM without my asking or a second thought.. And and she took it like a champ. Classic


she did the ATM ??? LOOOL. talk about Self-flagellation. That's funny !!! An Award-Winning blow job and ATM wouldn't be enough to give my wife a second chance. But that's me. it seems your set to give your wife another chance. I wish you best of luck !! Btw, one last thing out of precaution I get a post nuptial and keep separate bank accounts in case she betrays you again. U won't lose anything if u look into this option.


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## bandit.45

Had you done ATM with her before she cheated? Hope this wasn't a trick she learned from one of her OMs.


----------



## Jonesey

What is ATM,short for?


----------



## Amos

Jonesey said:


> What is ATM,short for?


Watch Clerks 2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTgneLluypg


----------



## Jonesey

Amos said:


> Watch Clerks 2.
> 
> 
> Ass To Mouth - YouTube


Ok.Thanks


----------



## morituri

Go to Urban Dictionary Jonesey and type A.T.M. (has nothing to do with banking)


----------



## bandit.45

morituri said:


> Go to Urban Dictionary Jonesey and type A.T.M. (has nothing to do with banking)


Well Mori, technically there is a withdrawl and then a deposit!


----------



## warlock07

ATM is dangerous until she takes a lot of care and cleaning before. She might get ill due to the presence of bacteria ..er at that place.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ass_to_mouth#Health_risks


----------



## TDSC60

WeDoExist said:


> I've been doing weekly IC for a few months now. It helps but I am a bit skeptical of psychotherapy right now. But I am still putting in effort for myself. We have already done two MC sessions. *They are helping me to understand what went wrong,* as well as help me process my feelings.


Be careful here. Some MCs actually try to justify infidelity by saying problems within the marriage was the cause. That is b*llsh*t.

No marriage is perfect and all have problems. Problems in a marriage does not in anyway justify or excuse infidelity - no way ever. Do not accept some psyco-babble about "unmet needs".

This is what went wrong;
1. She started going out to meet guys while you were away.
2. She met one and kept going back again and again.
3. She gave him her phone number (girl gives guy phone number at a bar = encouragement and willingness on her part).
4. She went home with him twice and ended up having sex with a man not her husband.

All of the above was a conscious choice that she made. This was no mistake or accident. WHAT SHE CHOSE TO DO IS IN NOW WAY YOUR FAULT.

Less than two years married. She has told you she thought the marriage was a mistake. She told you she didn't think she wanted to be married. Then she intentionally has an affair.

Odds are that she will do it again somewhere down the road. Some do not, but the vast majority of cheater will give you a repeat performance eventually. Just know that the odds are not in your favor.

Best of luck to you. I really hope you beat the odds if you decide to stay.


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## Bandit

Yeah I would be on the phone with my brother in a heart beat, dropping the dime on that chic.. and confessing her previous affairs as well.. Additionally you mentioned hyper bonding and feeling guilty afterwards..just remember your 2nd best, and there was probably another dudes pole between the lips your kissing.. I know it's brutal, but you have to accept it for what it is.. not so hot now huh? kinda like eating rancid meat... Also I don't think anybody else here mentioned it but I would get checked for STD's as well...


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