# What does one do if they're telling the truth?



## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

My wife is very beautiful, very Latina, very insecure, and she is over 10 years older than me.

We have been married 11 yrs, 13 together.

I am a good-looking guy with a very high need for attention from his wife. In all honesty, it almost seems that the 'traditional' roles seem reversed. I'm the one who needs to hear the 'I love you', I need to feel the hand holding, I want to be smiled at and to be made to feel important.

My wife on the other hand dismisses all such behaviors with a 'whatever' mentality. All such attempts to discuss these feelings result in caustic fights leaving me to think to myself that I'm living in a nightmare which I can't wake from.

My damaging decisions came after 6 years of marriage when I began to flirt beyond the line of boundary while at a department happy hour with a woman at work. The flirtation ventured into expressing my dismay in my marriage as well as openly discussing personal sexual things and preferences. She expressed how much she found me attractive and would do the nicest things for me. I found it so energizing that someone found me special. In all honesty, it was a true ego boost.

Never once did anything physical take place, nor could I ever allow it, I just couldn't! Never a kiss, never a hand hold, never a card, and no, there was no sex. This lasted a few weeks when I finally had to cut it off knowing that only true devastation would result. I even insultingly told her she would never be as good as my wife, etc.

Well, my wife discovered this through my confession and by going through my email.

Since then we've been through marriage counsellings, books, you name it. She placed boundaries on me such as having to park my car at work in a specific place, having to conference her in when checking my voice mails, not allowing me to delete work emails, ever. If some needed deleting, she would do it. I could not go to the mall near work to get lunch, I could not make a phone call at work without logging it for her to check. I could not close a helpdesk ticket (I work in computers) without logging what it was, and who it was for. (Male or female) I could not stay late at work without my boss telling her it was legitimate. (so embarrassing).

Since then, I've been straight as an arrow - however, she will take the slightest miscommunication as me 'lying' to her. She at the drop of a pin goes straight back to the start of all this as if it happened that very day.

What can I do if I'm telling the truth and she doesn't believe me???

Divorce or separation is not a alternative for me. I have daughters which I adore, 8 and 11 (11 adopted). But these fights are so emotionally charged and so illogical that I literally am left asking myself, "what in the hell just happened?"

Can anyone help? What can I do when I'm not lying???


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I think you need to understand that your wife is controlling you through manipulation.

draconis


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## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

It's just a sad messed up situation. I think she is permanently damaged.

At this point, I'm at a loss on what to do when you are telling the truth about something but are not believed. Not only that, but you are treated like you are a "continued liar who deceives, hides, and conceals the truth".

Another thing I don't understand is how a person can say A + B = C when they don't even know what A or B is.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

When spouses find that their loved one has had an affair, or nearly did as in this case it is normal to expect a period of transparency, but I believe this is stepping over the line on her part. This was an event that occurred five years ago, right? Noting happened but I can understand her wanting to make sure you were on the right path in your relationship and commitment. But to make these demands is over the top. As Drac said she is controlling you, not monitoring you. Is it possible this behavior is partly due to her own insecurities? I would suggest further counseling and this time work in her behavior and why she might be reacting this way. You need to honest and open with each other not monitored and manipulated.


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## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

Allow me to bring added clarification -

I don't follow these measures any longer as she has discovered on her own that it is too much for her to keep up with. She has concluded that if I'm going to do all this activity that I will find a way to keep it hidden regardless of the boundaries she sets. And truthfully, I agree.

On the same token, this gives her license to pretty much assume I'm flirting with girls at work (which I don't), and keeping secrets from her, which is true to an extent (the secrets part). My case in point is every time fail to add clarification of an work event, she blows up over it because "I'm lying and deceiving so I can do what is in my heart to do". Well hell, this just makes my natural tendency is to keep my mouth shut about everything! Why open it and remove any chase of peace? I'm not free to express without fear of retribution. 

She sites that because I struggle with my eyes then what do I do when she's not with me. Of course I struggle with looking at other women. I don't want to excuse it because it is lusting/coveting. However, when sex comes but 2 times a month, man I tell you what - I CRAVE! I don't want to look purely from a testosterone standpoint because all it will do is frustrate me and put me in a bitter mood.

Sorry for venting so much. It's just so maddening to always being called a liar when you are telling the truth. It sucks to never be believed.

What does one lose by believing?


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## believer (Apr 22, 2008)

It is reassuring to hear that once you realized what might have happened you stopped before anything happened. I also admire that you confessed to her - that takes guts. ( not sure that you knew this would be the result after 5 yrs or you may have changed your mind). But your honesty & integrity to be truthful deserves recognition. 
I can see where your wife might have had some concerns about you & your actions back then. Maybe at the time seemed rational but not 5 years later. All her rules & constraints are WAY to much & if she doesn't wake up & smell the coffee - she may be in for a rude awakening - when you leave for good this time. 
Obviously, she has some major issues ( someone else mentioned her own securities) but what she is asking for at this point is too extreme. If she can't put this behind her - especially with how transparently you have been living your life. Then I am not so sure she will ever get beyond this unless she seeks professional help. 
best wishes - some tough decision will lie ahead


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## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

Rikkijoe,

I just read your post. Sorry for taking so long as I haven't frequented this site for a while.

Give me a bit of time to respond as I want to give more thought to my answer rather than simply rambling without any syntax or outline to my answer.

I'll try by tomorrow!

Thanks!


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## Triton (Jul 8, 2008)

I agree with Drac , but after all this -heck, you should have had sex with her:scratchhead: with all the boundaries. You are the Man- let her have it. You tell her that - Hey, one I tried to tell your -Dum @## what my needs are - but no you did not want to her it. Then someone else wonders up and fills the hole in my heart- now your mad :rofl: Then you play hard ball.


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## Triton (Jul 8, 2008)

Tell her that - Heck, I would do it all over again. At least now you are paying me attention. It should not have taken for me go to the edge - to get attention.


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## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

Rikkijoe,

In actuality, I’m not sure our two situations are all that alike.

I am suffering the consequences of my actions which are guilty until proven guilty, whereas your situation is entirely circumstantial based upon actions subject to interpretation.

I found it very humiliating when I cut off plutonic relationships with other women. I did so in order to save my marriage but I looked like a damned fool doing so. There I was, telling female coworkers that I did not want them emailing me, calling me inter-office, dropping by the desk or anything short of the quickest professional exchange of day-to-day business as required imaginable. Picture the questions I received from them. They didn’t understand why. Of course they wouldn’t understand because they had no idea that I had crossed boundaries and that my wife is totally unstable and borderline psychotic. But you know what? I had to. I became the whisper of conversion behind closed office doors from that point on. I literally debased myself in front of innocent people who didn’t deserve the treatment I gave them nor deserved to have to sever professional and plutonic relationships.

I bury my face in my hands as I think back on these times.

Yeah, I know it’s disconcerting to know your husband still talks with someone who he knows desires to have sex with him (or used to). And honestly I would be too. I don’t know if ‘plutonic’ is necessarily what this relationship could still be called, yet it certainly isn’t adulterous. This is the only real boundary being fractured in my view. 

Is it worthy of divorce? My opinion is no.

Is it worthy of counseling? Certainly.

Does all hell break lose if he refuses counseling? I would hope not.

I am of the disposition that sexual adultery is the only grounds for divorce – (Let’s not split hairs about abusive relationships, etc….) This view is not shared by all, and I understand that. At this point in time, you do not have proof of adultery. Nor is it something for you to find proof of. You are not the police; you are not his private investigator. My experience shows me that women who go on crusades to find ‘proof’ will inevitably find it in a way that ‘connects-the-dots’ enough in their eyes to destroy any chance of reconciliation. In a way, you architect your own destruction. Don’t denigrate yourself to such a level. Keep your dignity by sticking to your vows to have and to hold, for better or for worse. 

Here are some things for your consideration.

My actions were brought about through a lack of emotional and physical needs being met by my wife. However, I acknowledge and embrace the truth that my actions were complete unjustified as I accept full responsibility for them. There most certainly were actions I could have and should have taken in order to address these issues to her before I acted so selfishly.

1.	A man feels fulfilled when his wife affirms him as a man and husband. This can be as simple as telling him how appreciated he is by you and the family. This is shown verbally and physically. Communicating how much you respect him both verbally and physically.

I too am weak and do view stuff that I shouldn’t sometimes. A man’s need for emotional intimacy is met physically. When a man sees porn, he is attempting to fill that need. I would not presume to say whether that need is being met at your home, but I do know from my own experience that it was/is certainly the case with me. During the times I do see pornography, I can honestly say that I do not want those women to do those things with me, but I want my WIFE and I to do those things together. When I do see porn, I end up missing my wife afterward and not some skank. A man longs for his wife and desires to be the man of his wife.

I think the primary thing you must come to understand is this:

If a man is going to sneak, hide, lie and deceive, there is no, zero, nada, nothing, not a thing you can do in order to prevent that nor cause it to cease. No boundary, no snooping/discovering and confronting that will remedy it. If your husband is going to be a sneak, he is going to find a way to do it regardless of how nosey you are.

Furthermore, the more nosey/chiding/naggy, and yes - bitc#y you become; the less of a man he feels he is in your eyes and thus he reduces himself to more hiding and sneaking lest you continue see those weaknesses.

If he is going to leave you, let him leave you on his own decision, not on “what you conclude”. His desires will reveal themselves in the long run. I guarantee you, if you divorce him on ‘suspicious’ behavior without that real ‘conclusive’ evidence, then it’s only going hurt you more. Don’t take the position of, “What, and stay here and let myself be wronged?” I suppose that’s what the vow “better or worse” comes in.

Keep your dignity by standing by what you have vowed. Keep your dignity by vowing to love, nourish and to cherish. Marriage isn’t 50/50, it’s 100/100. This way when he fails, then you’ve got it covered. 

I believe that when a man feels like a man by the actions of his wife towards him. He will then start becoming the man his wife so desires for herself. Those weaknesses he has are removed through the strengthening given from his wife. Likewise, I also believe that when a man loves his wife, and gives himself up for her, she becomes that wife he so yearns for.

But YOU, knowing this principle must take hold as one who is mature and initiate this principle apart from his knowledge.

I don’t want you to interpret this post as my saying, “it’s your entire fault”. By no means! But you know the tools, therefore be the bigger of the two and initiate it! Be patient, and most importantly keep no record of wrong. Bitterness spreads like cancer defiling everyone around.

If that day comes where all is exposed apart from your investigations or his personal revealing of it to you – then you can rest knowing you did everything you could have done.

Your question was; should I trust him?

My answer is; you can’t afford not to.


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## Farfignewton (Aug 10, 2008)

rikkijoe said:


> Anyway, I know this has been way to long, but I am in need of advice!! I would appreciate anyone's comments or suggestions.


I personally think that he should have cut off contact. No "friend" is worth screwing up your marriage over and you were much more understanding and patient then most women would have been. Her husband showed up on your door step with that recording for heaven's sake! That would've been it for me.


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## Sayjay75 (Jun 17, 2008)

Recording phone conversations isn't something somebody does out of the blue. This lady's husband obviously smelled something enough to go through all that effort.

I know that I had ever slept with another woman, or anything sexual - I would not be able to act normal. It would be so obvious. I also would probably never come home either.

I mean, come on; when I was flirting with this girl all I could concentrate on was her. I couldn't get any work done even. It was like everything was piling up around me because I couldn't stop talking to her. Imagine if I would have had sex with her!! I would have gotten fired for never being in my office!! And if I couldn't get it at the office, I would be not coming home.

I do agree, that relationship should stop - all I'm saying is don't be so quick the pull the trigger over something which will probably pull the trigger by itself without you.


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