# Wifey won't go to counselling today...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok this morning is pretty screwed up. Since the stalemate I'm not interested in intimacy with the missus. It's good to have a break, but I still get horny from time to time. Knowing the missus might try to manipulate me through sex I just decided to help myself with my tissues next to me. The missus caught me, but didn't say anything so I continued. Then she walked in again and told me to stop.

Like WTF?! I've never told her to stop whenever she helps herself so I told her to take her little p---head elsewhere. She said "FINE"... but then took my tissue box and I had to pull my pants up and chase her for it (I was almost there too! A pain!). It was funny for a while but I knew what she was up to as soon as she backed herself up against the wall and gave me that look, so I told her she can keep it, I was about to get another one but then she started yelling at me for turning her down again. I just told her I'm not in the mood for it until we're more stable and she goes on and on that she doesn't like me masturbating by myself and crap. Now she said she's not going to counselling until she's had sex.

Great... what to do? Quick responses would be appreciated, this happened just a few minutes ago. :scratchhead:


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Ok this morning is pretty screwed up. Since the stalemate I'm not interested in intimacy with the missus. It's good to have a break, but I still get horny from time to time. Knowing the missus might try to manipulate me through sex I just decided to help myself with my tissues next to me. The missus caught me, but didn't say anything so I continued. Then she walked in again and told me to stop.
> 
> Like WTF?! I've never told her to stop whenever she helps herself so I told her to take her little p---head elsewhere. She said "FINE"... but then took my tissue box and I had to pull my pants up and chase her for it (I was almost there too! A pain!). It was funny for a while but I knew what she was up to as soon as she backed herself up against the wall and gave me that look, so I told her she can keep it, I was about to get another one but then she started yelling at me for turning her down again. I just told her I'm not in the mood for it until we're more stable and she goes on and on that she doesn't like me masturbating by myself and crap. Now she said she's not going to counselling until she's had sex.
> 
> Great... what to do? Quick responses would be appreciated, this happened just a few minutes ago. :scratchhead:


Her choice but she's going to have to wait a hell of a lot longer until you guys solve this. Once again manipulation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

You know what to do. You aren't working on a bartering system. If preserving your relationship is important to her, she'll go to counseling. The sex will come when things are better between you two. But you make your statement and hold to it, don't get into a pissing contest over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why not lock the door when taking care of yourself?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Go to counseling without her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks guys... unfortunately, it seems she's being rather stubborn about it. I'm just going to go - and hope she comes with me, like last time. I have to admit though, when she was holding the box behind her and telling me to 'come get it', I was rather tempted. But I guess if I gave in she'll probably stop taking this seriously anymore.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Exactly. Counseling is just as important for you as it is for her, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it were, just because she'd pitching a fit. Regardless of the choices she makes, you can keep working on yourself to be able to determine, make and keep the boundaries that you need to in the relationship. 

Giving in to sex as a quid pro quo to get her to do what you want will only reinforce her belief that sex is all she's worth.

Plus, you have to expect some of these behaviors. Just because you've analyzed her and determined that she has all of these problems that she needs to take care of doesn't mean she's automatically on board full steam just because you say so....showing up and actually doing the work are totally different things.


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## LindaB (Aug 19, 2011)

I kind of sympathize with her. But I think she shouldn't use your counseling appointments as her bargaining chip. Counseling should be important to her not just you. I think you should sit down and explain to her that counseling is for both of you and sex cannot happen until your relationship has gotten better. 
Also maybe it would be prudent and safer to handle your business in the shower?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I would tell her this: 



golfergirl said:


> Her choice but she's going to have to wait a hell of a lot longer until you guys solve this.


And this: 



COGypsy said:


> You aren't working on a bartering system. If preserving your relationship is important to her, she'll go to counseling.


And do this: 



heartsbreaking said:


> Go to counseling without her.


She is very stubborn. If she won't go with you, go without her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Had an argument in the middle of last night having to push her off me on my sofa bed. And now in the morning it looks like she's going nuts realising I'm sexually withdrawing from her completely until this is solved, counsellor too said I should be strong about this but now she's saying she can't think straight. She's throwing all sorts of b-fits and accusing me of random BS. She won't even help herself for some reason. I tried to comfort her but she kept trying to touch me and got annoyed that I don't let her. 

Interestingly... she's being brought to her knees in some ways. She knows I'm horny too and is thinking up BS reasons why I'm not taking her. She did mention however that she's willing to go to counselling but not when I'm "treating her like this". I told her this is the best time as right now she's going through "withdrawal symptons" lol and she cussed at me heh. 

Maybe if I get her more mad she'll stop... Part of me is really tempted to just get the sex over and done with however.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Have sex with her once and go to MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Have sex with her once and go to MC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's terrible advice! Then she'll refuse to do this or that unless she gets sex. That's buying in to her manipulation! It's like giving an alcoholic a beer so he'll go to an AA meeting.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Its not for the purpose of getting her t go to MC but as a compromise. Either way...this situation sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Its not for the purpose of getting her t go to MC but as a compromise. Either way...this situation sucks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Unfortunately but unless she wants help, this will get way worse before it gets better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

I agree with Jellybeans....just have sex assuming you want to and make a point to let her know you are doing it for you and not just her. It isn't giving in to her manipulation. How is withholding it any less manipulative?

The beer analogy sends a wrong message, IMO. Have sex because it is fun, healthy, provides an opportunity to connect, and reminds both of you that there may be something worth saving. Don't view it in a negative light and stop over thinking it.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

bs193 said:


> I agree with Jellybeans....just have sex assuming you want to and make a point to let her know you are doing it for you and not just her. It isn't giving in to her manipulation. How is withholding it any less manipulative?
> 
> The beer analogy sends a wrong message, IMO. Have sex because it is fun, healthy, provides an opportunity to connect, and reminds both of you that there may be something worth saving. Don't view it in a negative light and stop over thinking it.


If she's saying, 'have sex with me or I won't go to counseling' and he does regardless of his reasons and how clearly he states them, in her mind he just gave in to her ultimatum. If he chooses to later on his own terms and she knows that, fine. But she doesn't want to then. She doesn't allow him to come to her unnder his own terms. She's a sex addict. Forcing sex 3 times a day or more, pushing through the pain and expecting him to. Offering alcoholic a beer to go to AA? I don't think it's that far off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

I think your analogy is way off. How is she a sex addict? I feel sorry for you if you feel wanting sex multiple times a day with your spouse is a disorder. IMO, you are still over thinking.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

bs193 said:


> I think your analogy is way off. How is she a sex addict? I feel sorry for you if you feel wanting sex multiple times a day with your spouse is a disorder. IMO, you are still over thinking.


Have you read OP's whole story? That's why they're in counseling because she insists on sex when they're both rubbed raw and aching. She calls him at work and makes him have phone sex with her. He doesn't want sex 3 or 4 times a day - he claims his ball sacs are drained and he's not enjoying it. What do you call it?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

No I have not. I do not live on this site and do not feel the need to follow everyone's entire history to offer input on one particular topic. IMO, if there is a need to know the back story to make one qualified to offer insight then perhaps a separate thread shouldn't have been started.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

bs193 said:


> No I have not. I do not live on this site and do not feel the need to follow everyone's entire history to offer input on one particular topic. IMO, if there is a need to know the back story to make one qualified to offer insight then perhaps a separate thread shouldn't have been started.


Why so defensive?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

bs193 said:


> No I have not. I do not live on this site and do not feel the need to follow everyone's entire history to offer input on one particular topic. IMO, if there is a need to know the back story to make one qualified to offer insight then perhaps a separate thread shouldn't have been started.


Its great that you don't spend all your time on here but Random's problems far exceed his wife wanting to get laid. Its a lot more complex and she has some serious issues with sex. Nobody said you need to be 'qualified'...Golf was simply asking if you knew the backstory and you said you didn't. That is all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Its great that you don't spend all your time on here but Random's problems far exceed his wife wanting to get laid. Its a lot more complex and she has some serious issues with sex. Nobody said you need to be 'qualified'...Golf was simply asking if you knew the backstory and you said you didn't. That is all.
> RD can start as many threads as he wants and in fact, he has several.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## roamingmind (Jul 20, 2011)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


golfergirl said:


> If she's saying, 'have sex with me or I won't go to counseling' and he does regardless of his reasons and how clearly he states them, in her mind he just gave in to her ultimatum. If he chooses to later on his own terms and she knows that, fine. But she doesn't want to then. She doesn't allow him to come to her unnder his own terms. She's a sex addict. Forcing sex 3 times a day or more, pushing through the pain and expecting him to. Offering alcoholic a beer to go to AA? I don't think it's that far off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Random I think you two need more help than you are getting from this MC. If it were the other way around and a man tried to force himself on his wife, she would probably be advised to get him out of he house. Your wife has lost all sense of boundaries of what is hers to control and what belongs to you. From what you say, she seems to think your penis belongs to her and you should have no say in how and when you want to use it. 

I have a feeling this is far more damaging to you and your relationship than it appears. She does not own your body, you control it and share it with her at a frequency that is a compromise between you two. She want what she wants when she wants no matter how you feel. To hear that you go through this daily is very desturbing. 

Her sex drive is a burden for you and seems out of control for her. This is a big big problem. I think you are in a crisis but because you are a man, it is not being treated as such. And because you are a man you are sucking it up like a man. I think your perserverebce is admirable but you are reaching a crisis. If you don't get the right kind of help your family will not survive. 

I think one of the biggest problems is the lack of respect for you as a separate person with ownership of your junk. You wife's sex drive is daunting and given the circumstances may be insatiable. If she wanted to have a more compatible sex drive, she could take antidepressants to lower her drive. Also, does she have mood swings? 

At any rate, I think you should explore getting more intensive help. do you think you can do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RD wont enforce his boundaries. So he is enabling the abuse.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@AFEH

Hard to enforce with the present double standard of how a man should be, and how a woman should be, with the common notion that a man can not be forced into sex. But I'm enforcing it now.

@Jellybeans/Golfergirl

Aye I guess so, thats what I felt in my gut that's why I'm resisting her. I've never held out from her in this way however, I'm keeping tabs on her because I'm unsure how she's going to react during this time. 

To make sure she won't go out and outsource without my permission (she hasn't ever done this sure, she has my complete trust but I never held out like this before so...) -> I've been telling her to go find herself a toyboy, insulting her strength as well... I know this hurts her more but knowing her stubborn rebellious nature, it's the only way.

@Catherine

She gets mood swings whenever she doesn't get some. When I put up with her she seems to be more stable, but I also have to put up with her during her "cycle" which involves some blood. The counsellor may refer us (again) to another specialist though, we just have to wait and see. I don't think there's really a counsellor who is exactly specialised in dealing with "wives who force their husbands to have sex"

BTW, speaking of pills, the missus has been on BC for quite a long time but ain't those supposed to reduce libido too?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*UPDATE*

Ok... so I confronted her with what I've figured out so far. She got rather angry and pissed that I'm "using her past against her" and reminded me of my "promise" but I defended myself by saying I'm not judging her negatively but she needs to address those issues, soon she tried to turn it on me by telling me I have issues because I was on the streets and in gangs and all that but I kept firm and refused to play into her taunts.

After some pointless debates we started to get somewhere, I told her why I'm looking at her past and told her exactly how I felt, then reminded her who I fell in love with. I challenged her, telling her the woman I once admired and love didn't twist the bible to her benefit, she didn't force sex and was not only considerate with me but considerate to everyone around her, people loved her and me included, she was trustworthy, honest, reliable, passionate and strong, someone I could walk side by side with and face the world knowing someone has got my back.

She was rather defensive and started to want to end the argument anyway she could but when I continued to express more how much I truly loved that woman and how me and "her" would never be in this situation, and in her tears she finally said it... "YOU CHEATED ON HER!"

I was a bit taken back, speechless for a while. Then I told her "So this is what this is about? You told me you're over it", then she tried to defend herself saying she "IS" over it, I kept at it telling her that she should stop denying she's still affected by it but she continued, claiming I shouldn't "twist her words" and that I made her say it (Which I thought was rather clever of me ^^)

So I probed deeper, bringing up her behaviour compared to how she was back then. I brought up her possessiveness and clinginess and remind her that's who she practically 'saved' me from years ago when I was with my ex, now she's showing the same traits. She asked me what do I expect so I hit her again with my accusation after she made that comment. She still denied it and told me she doesn't want to discuss it anymore then I said "We're STILL going to discuss this because for once we're actually making some progress".

She continued being defensive and acted quite childish plugging her ears with her fingers and going 'waaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah I can't hear you' (was kinda cute at the same time). She's older then me by 2 and a half years for crying out loud too. I just told her to think about it and left.

Meh... she's a baby deep inside -.-


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Every one of our stories has a back story!

Geesh.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^

:scratchhead:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Man, I don't know, I wouldn't have sex with her -just so she will go to counseling-this shouldn't be about bribing. Her respect for the marraige & getting help is what you need from her. Have sex because you both want it , it needs to be expressing you still want to work this out (and nothing beyond that) she still needs reminded that making love to her in this moment does not , will not ERASE the need for this counseling and changes to better your marraige union. 

Seems she has not forgiven you about the Cheating, still has it buried deep deep inside. Many issues need to come to the surface and be delt with yet. 

The battle continues.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks SA, I just don't know if I'm handling this right... =/

And she may have forgiven but may have not forgotten and may have changed too much due to what I did... I really popped her bubble and shattered a lot of her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The cheating took place long ago but it is probably like yesterday to her. Plus the incident where you asked her to leave last year is another factor. 

She thinks that she should be over these painful incidences in the relationship. But she is not. Why not regroup - allow her to talk about the affair like it happened yesterday answer all of her questions for as long as she needs to ask. Treat it like it happened yesterday and heal from it by not sweeping it under thr rug. 

I really admire your insightful relationship with your wife. You are a rare person to be so persistent under the pressures you have in your life now. You seem to be a strong self-made man and she is lucky to have you in her life. I wish you the very best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> @AFEH
> 
> Hard to enforce with the present double standard of how a man should be, and how a woman should be, with the common notion that a man can not be forced into sex. But I'm enforcing it now.


Ah But!!!

BUT they are YOUR boundaries. They are not anybody else’s. They are YOUR values and YOUR beliefs. And they ain’t anybody else’s. These are the things that make you the UNIQUE PERSON you are. Why on earth are you worried about “norms” in an abnormal situation!

If you are waiting for a man to tell you that he envies you, that man will most certainly not be me! I would have run from such a situation a very long time ago. I LIKE the chase. I LIKE the romancing. I LIKE being the leader. I LIKE being the dominant one. I RUN from women who chase me. (Even now at my age lol). I could not even begin to imagine doing it to order three or four times a day even at my peak!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> The cheating took place long ago but it is probably like yesterday to her. Plus the incident where you asked her to leave last year is another factor.
> 
> She thinks that she should be over these painful incidences in the relationship. But she is not. Why not regroup - allow her to talk about the affair like it happened yesterday answer all of her questions for as long as she needs to ask. Treat it like it happened yesterday and heal from it by not sweeping it under thr rug.
> 
> ...


Catherine,
You have just described a CODEPENDENT! That is what a codependent DOES!

It is far far better to STOP THE ABUSE BY ENFORCING PERSONAL BOUNDARIES!!!! Otherwise the abuse GOES ON FOREVER!

It is then totally up to RD’s W as to whether she seeks treatment or not. And of course if Mrs RD does seek treatment then it is his place to help her with that.

BUT UNTIL SHE RECOGNISES SHE IS THE ONE WITH THE PROBLEM THEN SHE WILL NEVER EVER SEEK LET ALONE GET A CURE FOR IT.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> I really admire your insightful relationship with your wife. You are a rare person to be so persistent under the pressures you have in your life now. You seem to be a strong self-made man and she is lucky to have you in her life. I wish you the very best.


I think so too, I think many other men (Yes, even those who love sex) would get WORN out under these crazy crazy circumstances and throw her to the Curb, you have been damn patient and persistence to make this work. But keep standing firm to your boundaries of coarse. 

Praise the day when she can SEE this and realize just how MUCH, How DEEP, how HIGH , How WIDE you love her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Thanks SA, I just don't know if I'm handling this right... =/
> 
> And she may have forgiven but may have not forgotten and may have changed too much due to what I did... I really popped her bubble and shattered a lot of her.


Go on a marriage enrichment program!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@AFEH

I'm the same way mate, I like the tease, the challenge, the game, the romance, the conquest. She used to be a lot different then today, from time to time she bothers but most times it's meh...

Thanks for your understanding, most people just dismiss my problems as simple "unappreciation". Imagine a world where a woman gets forced into sex by her husband, and everyone tells her "you are so lucky!" Pretty screwed up right? Yet this world is right here, only the man is the victim.

@Catherine/SimplyAmorous

Thanks for your kind comments, it's very encouraging. I guess I have to play this right, I have to be understanding and caring, but at the same time firm that she needs help and she ain't slipping away from this one.

Just hope she appreciates this in the end, gotta be light at the end of the tunnel yes?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RD I reckon your wife is trying to keep you from straying. She’s trying to ensure you have no energy (or whatever) for another woman. It’s her defence strategy against you having another affair.

So she’s thinking about the future (which is good), and to keep you in her future (which is again good) she wants you to shag her (which is all I can imagine it is when it’s at that frequency) three or four times a day.

I think your wife is IMMENSELY INSECURE in her relationship with you. I reckon your goal, objective is to help your wife feel secure, safe and comfortable in her relationship with you.

And that’s going to take time. The very best way is FUTURE PLANNING. Get yours and her head into the FUTURE. Talk about and plan holidays for next year, what you are going to be doing in your retirement, child’s education FUTURE things like that.

AND GO ON THAT MARRIAGE ENRICHMENT PROGRAM. It will give you both views of marriage structures and dynamics that underpin happy and successful marriages. And of course IT IS FUTURE ORIENTED!!!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Catherine,
> You have just described a CODEPENDENT! That is what a codependent DOES!
> 
> It is far far better to STOP THE ABUSE BY ENFORCING PERSONAL BOUNDARIES!!!! Otherwise the abuse GOES ON FOREVER!
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I see it now, I think this is it. Random I think you are the one who needs the most intensive help at this point to deal with your wife. I do think you have had a hard time with boundaries. What you are doing now is a good start but you need more intensive support.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@AFEH

That's what I thought early this year, and made changes accordingly. I've been initiating, reassuring, and farting out lovey dovey butterflies for her as long as she didn't chuck nympho-fits. But it wasn't enough, she wants more, or rather -> more frequently.

Hence I've come to the conclusion that the issue has been pushed deeper then both of us had anticipated. It's changed her.

@Catherine

I don't see how it's my problem. I've been firm since early this year when I put my foot down. The nymphomaniac in my wife came back after a recent fight and 'making up' but now I'm putting my foot down again - and she's chucking crazy fits. I'm not bending over. The balls on her court to change, I'm tired of her trying to pin her problems on me as well.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Random I think you two need more help than you are getting from this MC. If it were the other way around and a man tried to force himself on his wife, she would probably be advised to get him out of he house. Your wife has lost all sense of boundaries of what is hers to control and what belongs to you. From what you say, she seems to think your penis belongs to her and you should have no say in how and when you want to use it.
> 
> I have a feeling this is far more damaging to you and your relationship than it appears. She does not own your body, you control it and share it with her at a frequency that is a compromise between you two. She want what she wants when she wants no matter how you feel. To hear that you go through this daily is very desturbing.
> 
> ...


A really excellent post, Cat.



RandomDude said:


> I challenged her, telling her the woman I once admired and love didn't twist the bible to her benefit, she didn't force sex and was not only considerate with me but considerate to everyone around her, people loved her and me included, she was trustworthy, honest, reliable, passionate and strong, someone I could walk side by side with and face the world knowing someone has got my back.
> 
> She was rather defensive and started to want to end the argument anyway she could but when I continued to express more how much I truly loved that woman and how me and "her" would never be in this situation, and in her tears she finally said it... "YOU CHEATED ON HER!"
> 
> I was a bit taken back, speechless for a while. Then I told her "So this is what this is about? You told me you're over it", then she tried to defend herself saying she "IS" over it,


You really need to focus on this issue as well in MC. Very much so. She is still very hurt by the fact you cheated on her, understandably. Don't hold back in MC. Bring this topic up as well as the sex issues.

BOTH OF YOU need to discuss your pasts in therapy together. Put all of your cards on the table!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I think she's starting to break folks, guess she's out of ideas. The sooner she accepts I'm not changing my mind and that she needs help the sooner we can start smoothing things over and then I can make her smile again. I miss it, it's been too long we've been fighting over this. Gave her a bit of a tease to speed up the process a little.

It's strange though, I really only ever seem to assert my authority as husband when her brain is doing a crazy. I prefer not to, as I prefer her to do it out of will not out of duty, but oh well, in this case, I guess I just had to fight her will.

Hopefully it's all over soon, besides she's letting herself go a bit recently. Mmmm come to think of it... me too! Guess sex kept us fit.


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