# Am I a sucker?



## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi everyone I have been coming into these rooms for months but never registered until today . I have been with my husband 23 years and we have 3 children ages 9,10 to 14. 

Briefly, about 3 years ago my husband started to become very distant in our marriage. A year and a half ago we started some marriage counseling. He did not participate very much. However, he had no problem telling me what was wrong with me and I spent a lot of energy changing those issues. Also, for many years I have been involved in a program of recovery and I spent a lot of time working on issues within myself to make my life better. I have come to realize that my husband is extremely passive aggressive and it has played a big role in our relationship problems. Last August he moved out and stayed with some family to get a “break” as he called it. In November he decided to get a rent a house about 10 minutes from our our home. The kids have taken this very hard because we were a very close knit family doing many activities together. During our separation my husband has been very involved with the children and shows up for all activities and wants to see them any chance he gets. We have had a custodial arrangement. I have been trying many things throughout the last 8 months such as no contact, being the wife he would want me to be (finally started taking ADD medication etc..), allowing him to come and go as he pleases, and ME moving on with participating in lots of activities, having parties, going out to dinner and movies etc. 

Last month (after not asking for a couple of months), I asked or pressured him to decided what he wanted to do...he choose the option of ending the relationship. However, to date he has not filed, isn't ready to tell the kids, hasn’t moved his things out of the house etc.. is willing to go to counseling again (and use the counselor as a mediator for divorce) however, we only seem to talk about our marriage. Heehas never used the word divorce. One week he seems to want to work on things and is open and then the next he is completely shut off. Yes, I do believe that he is having an emotional relationship with an ex female boss. The pain I have been feeling is unbearable at times. I can't seem to move on. I still cry almost everyday when my chilren are out. The attorneys told me not to file for divorce because I own my own business and do not have medical insurance. For the state we are in I would lose all medical insurance if I filed first. I told him if he wanted to end the marriage he would have to do all the work. I know this scared him. He seems to come up with so many excuses that don't ring true about our relationship, like he is making “justifications” for leaving. I do set certain boundaries but can't seem to go all the way. I really know the man I married is no longer there. He has become selfish, cold, critical and seems very lonely. But, I just can't seem to get over this man. Every time I turn around people tell me I will do fine but I still want to work on the marriage. The counselor believes that he has stretched the truth to his family in justification as to why he left, and can't seem to figure out how to come back. But he is so cold to me. Help!!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Maybe you need to ask yourself why you want a man who makes you cry everyday, who is, as you describe "selfish, cold, critical and seems very lonely". Selfish is an understatement for the way he is treating you.
Start the 180, for you. Disengage yourself and work on you. Let him stew for awhile and keep your insurance. So sorry for your pain, it really sucks.


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

His loneliness is no longer your problem. You cannot fix it.

Focus on yourself, what can you do to stop needing him.

If you think he is in an EA, is there anything you can do to gather evidence?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Your story is not so different from mine... A dissatisfied wife who eventually began a string of EAs, initiated an in-house separation, suggested divorce, then never did anything else to either reconcile or end the marriage and the relationship.

In February, I got tired of waiting and filed for divorce myself. She's been stonewalling to stall things, and so I've taken control of the situation and have been moving things forward with or without her.

It sounds like you've fallen into the same sort of co-dependent, "nice guy", try-to-fix-all-the-problems-myself-including-his sort of paradigm a lot of us have.

The solution is... Stop worrying about him. Stop worrying about the marriage and the relationship. You've got enough of your own problems, so fix those first.

Once you start fixing yourself, there's a good chance your husband might notice, join in and open himself to reconciliation. On the other hand, there an equal chance he won't and your marriage will end.

Either way... In the end, YOU will be stronger, healthier and happier.

Allow me to take special note of this...



allowingthecakeeating said:


> ...being the wife he would want me to be (finally started taking ADD medication etc..)...


I am just ADD enough to be diagnosed. It's something can cause a lot of big problems in marriages and relationships, if you aren't taking care to actively treat it and learning appropriate and effective coping strategies to deal with it.

Melissa Orlov, the author of _The ADHD Effect on Marriage_ (a book I'd highly recommend you and your husband read, if you haven't), hosts a forum for people dealing with ADHD in a relationship... http://www.adhdmarriage.com/forum ...The place has a very similar vibe to TAM. Check it out.


Pb.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks for answering. I ask myself the same question... whether it's worth it but then I remember all the years of good. I will try 180 again. I have 2 years to answer once he announces the marriage is over in the state we are in . There is no legal separation in my state. Yes KC I am quite a codependent. I have tried for a couple years to get evidence that there is anything more than a emotional relationship with this woman. One of the reasons he claims he left is because I didn't believe that it was just a friendship. I never found anything inappropriate in any of their emails or texts etc... But, whatever it was or is it is not appropriate to me that he spend time speaking with another woman intimately about our marriage. He said she is a special friend however he maintains to this day that she has no impact on our marriage. Also she is currently seeking a divorce from her husband. Coincidence? Humm .....She lives 40 minutes away and he is always trying to hang out at our house. He likes having family dinners and comes over to “hang” out a lot. (It does not happen often).However, it is apparent that he loves his freedom!! He is still very involved with our church etc...We have a large group of friends and they have tried to talk with him but he is very vague and cuts them off. He tries to invite our friends to do things and most of the time they don’t go.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> "One of the reasons he claims he left is because I didn't believe that it was just a friendship."


Ridiculous. Bull. 

Women and men are never "just friends". Not for long at least. 



> Also she is currently seeking a divorce from her husband. Coincidence?


Not a coincidence.



> He tries to invite our friends to do things and most of the time they don’t go.


Because they know and they don't approve. 


He's been cheating for a long time and both of them want to save their image. Contact the OW's husband. Let him know.


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Ridiculous. Bull.
> 
> Women and men are never "just friends". Not for long at least.
> 
> ...


Don't entirely agree with other sex friends but it is very dangerous territory to get close. Other than that spot on. 

If he would leave his wife over 'just a friend' they aren't just friends imo. If that is his best excuse, he has placed her above you, his wife.

If there was no evidence of EA, there could infact be no actual affair. And he is using that BS excuse to cover his real motives.

It could be a one sided EA.. he could be leaving to be 'available' for her post divorce. Could be two way but well hidden, if he knew you were suspicious, the 'not guilty' evidence could even have been left visible intentionally while the suspect stuff was done in person or by secret email account etc.

Whatever the connection.. there is almost certainly one that is not described by 'just friends'.

Something has happened either between them, or in his head to make him change and nothing you have posted so far explains it in a way that leaves him looking free of wrongdoing. 

What is important though is you identify what you need and can do for yourself, and work on that. There are loads of knowledgeable posters here and some excellent books and articles to read that you may find very enlightening.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

This all really sucks. I am and have always been willing to work on issues in our relationship. I try to keep my side of the street clean. I wake up in the middle of the night and want the pain to stop. I keep saying to myself....”Who would want a women in her 40s with three kids?” Dating scares me and being alone scares me. It is apparent that he is not happy. He has gained lots of weight. Always wants to see the kids and has never declined when I have asked him to come over. The bottom line is he is NOT willin to "work" on making it better. Why?? Is it maybe possibly greener on the other side...despite what they say??


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

Don't even thing about dating or someone new at this point.

The people that do that are just hiding their issues anyway.

Stop chasing him. He needs to face his own demons whatever they are. Stop asking him round. Stop doing anything for him. Focus on you and your kids. Anything else can wait.

The grass isn't greener else where, that's why he seems unhappy. It is greener were you water it. He thought he was heading to greener pastures but found it needed watering just like when he was at home. He has screwed up, time for him to be left to clean up is mess. You need to have other priorities now.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I feel so inadequate. But in the same breath I am told to be attractive, I own my own business and am very active in my church and with lots friendships (last Saturday I still hosted our annual murder mystery party even without him..) But, I feel so horrible. Why can’t I see beyond?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm in a similar position as you. Married almost 25 years - 3 kids 23-20&14 - and I'm 44 yrs old. My story is a little different because right after new years he came home from work - told me he wasn't happy he found someone else and was moving out. Didn't want to try didn't want MC & I found out 3 weeks later that he moved right in with her. I was crushed in the beginning but I knew I had to try to put thoughts of him & OW out of my head before it drive me crazy. 
I'm trying every day to push ahead - some days I do better than others - and I worry too about starting over again but I have to believe this is not it for me and someday I will find someone else. Hang in there and don't let him take advantage - work on you!


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

KC, women and men can be friends but not "just friends" 

OP, you are in a super tough spot, but you will have to turn things around whether he is going to be in your life or not. 

Most people don't want to 'work' on relationships unless they are both committed to it. He's going to have to WANT to be with you and do it out of duty or residual love. 

You may want to check the Divorce Busting site as well.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> I feel so inadequate. But in the same breath I am told to be attractive, I own my own business and am very active in my church and with lots friendships (last Saturday I still hosted our annual murder mystery party even without him..) But, I feel so horrible. Why can’t I see beyond?


You can't see beyond because you are focusing on him and what he may or may not do. Focus on you. That's the purpose of the 180.

When you find yourself thinking of him, say to yourself "me, me, me" and that will re-focus your energy on you. Where it should be.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> One of the reasons he claims he left is because I didn't believe that it was just a friendship.


My wife made the same excuse... The fact is, regardless of what it is or was, you set a clear boundary for him, and instead of respecting that boundary, he shifted the blame onto you and continued to violate it. And you let him do it.

And all throughout my marriage, before I got my own **** together, I let my wife do it too.



allowingthecakeeating said:


> I keep saying to myself....”Who would want a women in her 40s with three kids?”


I would. I'm 36 years old with two teenaged kids... Right now, I've got two hot 40-something women, both with kids about as old as mine, who are just as interested in me as I am in them. Thus far, I've found that they are more interesting and more fun than anyone in my age bracket.

Don't worry about it. Learn to be happy alone. If you can't be happy with yourself, how can you ever be happy with someone else?


Pb.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Just wanted to say, I can really relate to how you are feeling and the powerlessness and frustration of being in limbo. My H has dragged out our separation as well, and his flip-flopping has not made it easy on me emotionally. My H is now saying he is filing, but I have yet to see papers (perhaps this week or next). Much as I had hoped for R, at this point I will just be happy to be out of limbo so I can finally truly let go and move on, emotionally.

Best Wishes,- A12


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks Awakening! What would you have done different during this separation?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi ATCE - 

That's a good question. I guess the main thing I think I would have done differently is not to change back to my maiden name. I did that during an "angry" phase back in October, but realize now I was just grasping for something I could control, because I hated feeling so powerless over the situation with him holding all the cards and calling the shots. I also would have practiced the 180 much more strictly, not responded to his every occasional crumb. It might not have made a difference anyway, for all I know, but probably wasn't helpful to my cause of "wanting" R. 

That's the other thing..."wanting" -- being attached to a particular outcome (in my case R) made the whole thing more painful than it needed to be. I tried and tried to not give a flip about whether he was ever coming back or not, and turn the whole situation over to a higher power, but really struggled on that point. I found it very hard to trust in a higher power to sort things about the way they are supposed to be -- because I felt so angry with myself and with God for having ripped away the happiness I had finally found and dreamed of all my life. 

Like my H, your H may have issues going on that have nothing to do with you, and over which you have no control. We want to beleive there is something we can do to "win them back," but that strategy turns out to be crazy-making. The best course of action is tending to ourselves and making each day the best it can be. Or according to my program: clean house, trust God, help others.

Do I understand correctly that there is a barrier to you filing yourself (because you would lose health insurance)? It is a long-ish time to wait, but that may change in October, 2014 when enrollment begins for state-run health insurance marketplaces with consumer access, affordability and quality protections: Health Reform in United States - Kaiser State Health Facts

I wish I had better advice (or better yet, a success story!), but keep posting and seeking feedback or even just venting as much as you need. TAM has been indispensible for me, going through this life-changing hell.

All Best Wishes, - A12


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

The crazy thing is right now I am filling out paperwork to refinance our house because we are getting a much better rate. He is all for the idea and we are still co-applicants.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

He just came to get the kids for dinner and he is so cold to me. How can someone change so quickly? It seems that when I gain some ground he wavers and when I waver he comes around....I dont get it. I am going out to dinner with a girlfriend and then we are going to discuss the mortgage when he drops the 2 kids off...my 14 year old girl refuses to go with him anywhere. She has not gone with him in months. We expect her to be polite when she sees him. She has gone to our counselor a few times and thinks he is full of **** and does not know what he is doing. I keep reminding her to be respectful but I also try and listen when she is hurt and frustrated. I have tried to be upfront with them from the beginning because I want them to trust their instincts. However, give no details. The kids dont understand what happened. We had a lot of great times and still do now....He just does not want to live here with me.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Dear ATCE -

Have you looked into what a separation of assets/property would entail, or spoken with an attorney about this? Can you afford the re-fi'ed mortgse psyments on your own? In my case, my H was quite leient on me, for which I g do give him credit. He just wanted his equity bought out by me, whereas he woud have been entitled to 1/2 the property value. Maybe time to think through what an optimal division of assets and custoday arrangement would look like for you. So you could be prepared to lay that on the table when/if the time comes.

I was very fortunate, because I had the asset of a rental property I owned, and could use the (considerable) profit from that sale to buy out his equity and pay down more of the principle in my re-fi to make the monthly mortgsge payments manageble on one salary -- mine. zin the process he agreed to be taken off the loan and the title of my (formerly our) primary residence, so it is my house now.

Just saying if you have not already done so it may be worth thinking through with qualified advisors, what the terms of the split shoud look like and what the key negotiating points are. Good luck -- rooting for you here!

All Best Wishes, - A12 (who is sick of non-committal absentee husbands)


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> The crazy thing is right now I am filling out paperwork to refinance our house because we are getting a much better rate. He is all for the idea and we are still co-applicants.


Wait. Stop.

So, let me get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this...


In the last few years, your husband has grown distant from you.
He agreed to marriage counseling, but did not participate.
He is constantly criticizing you.
He acts passive-aggressively.
He initiated a separation, and moved out.
He refuses to put any effort toward reconciliation, but...
He also refuses to begin the divorce process so you can move on.
He appears to be emotionally unstable with regards to your relationship.
He has a woman who is a "special friend"... almost certainly an EA... very possibly a PA.
He has been rewriting the history of your relationship.
He shifts blame onto you, when you confront him about his mistakes.
Your mutual friends don't want to be involved with him.
He does not appear to be willing to work to make things better.
You own daughter isn't comfortable hanging around with him.
You are so emotionally ruined by your marriage to this man, that you have an irrational and unfounded fear of leaving and being on your own.

...and yet...


You still want to work on the marriage?
You let him come to your home for family dinners and to hang out?
You are planning on entering into a major, long-term joint financial debt with him?
You refuse to initiate divorce proceedings on your own, giving him complete control over the situation?

Sorry, ATCE... Right now, yes, you are a sucker. You know it, other wise you wouldn't have chosen the user name you did.

You aren't the only one here who has been, though... And you don't have to be one anymore, if you don't want to.


Pb.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

yep...you got it. ugghhhhh!!! Thanks


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Well it is done. He says he does not want to try anymore. He admits we are very blessed on many areas of our life.... but he is just not willing to do anything more to salvage the marriage. (The MC and I are not sure where he tried before but.... )We have grown apart, he says. But, he thinks we will be great co-parents. I don't know what to do now. I have been fairly lenient on letting him come and go around the house. he still has his "stuff" here and all his mail comes here etc... I need to set up boundaries very fast. What should I do? I told him I will not file for divorce and if he wants to end the marriage, he needs to do it himself. (This will stump him for a little while..!) He really thought that he could just tell me it is over and I will take care of it and we can be “friends” along the way. Of course for the sake of the children I will be an “adult” around them but no where else. Maybe down the road but not now! This is so painful.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

OP, stop letting your husband come and go as he pleases. 

Tell him that you do not want him anymore, and you don't mind what he does but he needs to give you space to move on with your life.

Yes he should be heavily involved with the children, but you don't have to let him come to your house and play happy families at your emotional expense.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Now that he's decided to end it, you need to focus on you going forward and not him. Make sure he doesn't prosper at your emotional expense.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Dear Cake - 

I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. Some boundaries must be drawn, as others are advising -- he cannot just do as he pleases. He needs to be told that if he wants to end the marriage, he need to take responsibility and file for divorce. There have to be clear terms established for the co-parenting/custody, and also agreement of division of assets.

Boundaries! Time to get clear about your needs and priorities and stand up for what is best for YOU! Good luck and keep us posted.

((((Hugs))))), A12


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I am really challenged what to do with my children they are 9, 10 and 14. We have 2 girls and a boy in the middle (my son loves his father very much and would do anything to be with him.) However, my daughters 14 and 9 are very angry at him for leaving. My 14 year old has not had a "warm" conversation with him for months. We don’t allow her to be disrespectful. (but if she is not happy she can POLITELY tell him. I don’t think she needs to agree with his choices.) But, he doesn’t back off. He doesn't realize that they have a right to be angry for him leaving. He keeps trying to force his opinion that they should....make a choice to be happy about this situation and move on. 

Today after everything that's happened this week he decides to write me an email and ask me to "have a meeting with the both of them."

"I am requesting that you would join me to discuss some issues and ideas with Exxx, preferably in the next couple days “I would like to have specific and open communication time for me to go over how I would like our relationship to progress and my basic expectations for her and I going forth. 

He has no specific beef with me....and either does she....

I feel that since he is done in the marriage, I do not need to be involved in his “relationship building” with her. I always made it right for him. I always intervened and made sure that things were smoothed over. He says he's done then why should I have to bother to make it comfortable for him. HE LEFT, not me. He needs to fix this right? 

I will be happy to co-parent in a very supportive manner but not mediate his relationships..... am I wrong?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> I feel that since he is done in the marriage, I do not need to be involved in his “relationship building” with her. I always made it right for him. I always intervened and made sure that things were smoothed over. He says he's done then why should I have to bother to make it comfortable for him. HE LEFT, not me. He needs to fix this right?
> 
> I will be happy to co-parent in a very supportive manner but not mediate his relationships..... am I wrong?


No, you are not. You shouldn't make it worse through action or words, but he can start taking responsibility for his own actions and fix his own mistakes. You don't have to do that for him, any more.

"I am not okay with you asking me to be a counselor and mediator between you and our daughter."

That's all you need to say. No more.


Pb.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stay out of the relationship with your DD and her estranged father. He chose to leave the family. 

I would suggest talking to the husband of the special friend. Specifically see if she been pulling stuff like your husband or if he husband straight out caught them hooking up.

The behavior of nice then cold is classic cheater behavior, as his moving out to need space. He's been cake eating. Don't tell me he's gone all this time without sex.


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## Denys (Mar 17, 2013)

I am sorry . But I ask myself the same question, am I a sucker? I am married one year yesterday. We dated 20 years ago and almost married but he couldn't settle down. So we meet back up 2 years ago. He has always had a drinking problem. He has put great effort in changing. He has gone from drinking every day to maybe twice a month. He lies, about everything that doesn't even mean anything. When he decides to drink, he lies about it, wont take my calls, hides the vehicle, draws money out of bank. We tried to compromise on drinking, as we can go out on weekends, we can have friends over. But I cant handle all the drinking to get drunk. I could handle a couple beers while socializing but then the next time he has more, and more the next time after that. I don't believe he cheats at all. He does have another serious problem, he looks at porn consistently on his phone. That irritates me. Then he lies about that. But I know he is. All his friends are drinkers. He cuts me down to t hem to make me look bad. tell his family and friends that he is leaving me, but begs me to stay. So this last week, he leaves work early, goes to bar, and drinks so much he didn't make it home. Stayed at friends house. Sick for 2 days and didn't work. Swears he going to get help and throws at me he has health problems that's serious but wont go to the dr. So Guess the help issue and health issue is his last straw to keep me. Also wanted to go to church. Since things calmed down. I haven't heard of no dr., no church, and no help. Like nothing ever happened. Now someone help me and what do I do. Keep buying in this or make the move and start new. I starting working 2nd shift this week so that will increase the lies and drinking I am sure. Help me.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

The man I knew for 20+ years was not a cheater but I dont know this new man. Of course he says there is no one else in MC and when I discuss it with him. But I have no idea what he does with his time and who he is with. But at this point he wants to end the marriage so it doesn't make a difference really..... Since we started having children 15 years ago, I seemed to have acquired taking care of everything in our lives. But to be honest we have always been best friends, he makes me laugh and he is a good father so I learned to just accept it. Take the good with the bad, right? But as he started to become distant a couple years ago obviously things were not as cool with me . In the last 8 months that he has been away, I have really learned how incredibly passive aggressive he is. I consider myself a fairly bright woman, but I never knew how much he was/has been controlling me with this behavior. He is the classic nice guy. Always helpful, Plays the victim...Everyone loves him.....(well not much anymore). Setting boundaries is really going to be tough for me. Even with all this I still love him and want to work it out.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Denys, I have a bit of knowledge with this and I can tell you. He will do absolutely nothing until he wants to. Alcoholics are the best liars and will continue to be. It will get much worse until he stops. You need to get yourself some help. Get to an ALANON meeting. Controlled drinking and promises will not work. Alcohol is his best friend.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Denys said:


> I am sorry . But I ask myself the same question, am I a sucker? I am married one year yesterday. We dated 20 years ago and almost married but he couldn't settle down. So we meet back up 2 years ago. He has always had a drinking problem. He has put great effort in changing. He has gone from drinking every day to maybe twice a month. He lies, about everything that doesn't even mean anything. When he decides to drink, he lies about it, wont take my calls, hides the vehicle, draws money out of bank. We tried to compromise on drinking, as we can go out on weekends, we can have friends over. But I cant handle all the drinking to get drunk. I could handle a couple beers while socializing but then the next time he has more, and more the next time after that. I don't believe he cheats at all. He does have another serious problem, he looks at porn consistently on his phone. That irritates me. Then he lies about that. But I know he is. All his friends are drinkers. He cuts me down to t hem to make me look bad. tell his family and friends that he is leaving me, but begs me to stay. So this last week, he leaves work early, goes to bar, and drinks so much he didn't make it home. Stayed at friends house. Sick for 2 days and didn't work. Swears he going to get help and throws at me he has health problems that's serious but wont go to the dr. So Guess the help issue and health issue is his last straw to keep me. Also wanted to go to church. Since things calmed down. I haven't heard of no dr., no church, and no help. Like nothing ever happened. Now someone help me and what do I do. Keep buying in this or make the move and start new. I starting working 2nd shift this week so that will increase the lies and drinking I am sure. Help me.


Copy and paste your post as a new thread. You will get more help specific to your situation. Briefly I will say that your husband has very toxic friends and you are going to get nowhere with him as long as he has people encouraging his bad behavior. He has a drinking problem and needs to get help for that.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I am having a hard time ths morning because I did not go to church. He still goes and I am tired of acting like everything is ok. Several people at church know whats going on but my husband walks around like nothing is happening. I hate this.


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## notdone (Jan 7, 2013)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> I am having a hard time ths morning because I did not go to church. He still goes and I am tired of acting like everything is ok. Several people at church know whats going on but my husband walks around like nothing is happening. I hate this.





allowingthecakeeating said:


> I am having a hard time ths morning because I did not go to church. He still goes and I am tired of acting like everything is ok. Several people at church know whats going on but my husband walks around like nothing is happening. I hate this.


ATCE, I'm sorry you're going through this. My wife could be your husband. Nearly identical story. She's now been gone 11 months. You can read my thread over on relationships and spirituality. All I can say is now looking back I wish I had initiated the divorce months sooner. My wife is passive and her self esteem is at an all time low. Perhaps her years of contemplation on leaving, the actions she chose while distancing from us and getting all the different destructive influences from women destroyed by similar actions has done it. When couples distance it seems to me they miss out on the mutual emotional building they get when happily working on mutual goals. Now I'm left working on me without one of the few great wives out there. Tough. But a lot tougher without doing the 180. She's on a self destructive path now and my co-dependence would only make me slower in recovery if at all. So, off I go getting everything done. I mean everything. I will not contact her for anything and look for creative ways to get communication done through vendors like the CPA, attorney, etc. never through the kids. It may be years before Im strong enough to handle seeing or talking to her and not have thoughts of her ramped up again. I hope this perspective helps, you just seem to be at the earlier stage tab I'm at.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Danielk (Feb 19, 2013)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> I am having a hard time ths morning because I did not go to church. He still goes and I am tired of acting like everything is ok. Several people at church know whats going on but my husband walks around like nothing is happening. I hate this.


I'm sorry for what you are going through. If several people at your church know what's going on then I am sure your husband knows they know and is probably walking around as if nothing is going on because he's feeling ashamed for the way he's treated you.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks everyone for taking the time to read and answer me back. I cannot file for divorce because after speaking with 2 separate attorneys they directed me not to. 1 I do not have any medical insurance currently with my self on business. 2. the amount of money I would receive for child support would only cover my mortgage. I am not willing at this point to think about leaving our home and a uproot my children after everything that has happened this year. Maybe down the road. We do not have a lot of equity in the home as we refinanced the mortgage a few years back and shortened the term. So financially it would not be smart to instigate the divorce. In the state I am in I would have 2 years to answer his request for a divorce. Both of the attorneys highly recommend me sitting on it. 

My biggest challenge however is last night the ----- hit the fan at home with my 14 year old daughter. My husband has tried repeatedly to communicate with her obviously not understanding that she is just angry at him and resentful that he left and sees that he has not made much effort in the last 8 months. He does not seem to leave it alone. It seems that he wants her to just be okay with everything and move on so they can be the best friends that they were before he left. She however, being a typical 14 year old, has been very unresponsive and will not reply to him, blocked him on Facebook, among many other things. I told her she I will not allow her to be disrespectful to him. But I also believe she has a right to be angry. He was not very upfront with the children when he decided to leave last summer. He made several excuses that he was staying with family in the city we live in to help them out. I was appalled but I handled it the best way I could. I was very upfront with them and they know it. I felt it was not right to let them feel that something was wrong and not validate their feelings. I do not want my children to grow up thinking that when they feel something is not right, to ignore it. So I did not lie to them. However I did not throw my husband under the bus at the same time. 

So back to last night, my husband has this crazy idea that we can co- parent as best friends and he can leave and everything would be fine. That we should all be happy. I always fix things. He told me it was over. So I am NOT any longer going to continue trying to fix his relationship. So I told him that if he wants to meet with our daughter he needed to do it himself. Obviously this pissed him off. So last night after he tried to get ahold of her a few times and she would not answer his text, he shut off her cell phone. However with him doing that he also took me off the account as an account manager. Which was a zinger to me. he certainly did not shut off my cell phone or do anything to it. But he made it difficult for me to make any changes. It was a pretty lousy thing to do. This is not something he would have ever done prior to him leaving. His comments to me we're in reference to if I didn't want to deal with the situation with our daughter he was going to do it. He is acting almost crazy. One of the many things in MC that he stated was that he felt I never allowed him to develop a relationship privately with the children. So in the last few months I have backed off. He left .........he needs to see the destruction of his choices. I don't tell him that.......I just simply say" I am out of it, you two work it out" However I usually support him in front of the children. I agree that she is being disrespectful but he just needs to leave her alone. He wanted to meet with her tonight at 6:30 so they could work on developing a better relationship. It was all about him and making himself feel better. I can't be a part of it. She is refusing to go. Before she went to school this morning, I told her that she must go for an hour and listen to him. I also said if she refused to go there would be a 
punishment. What else should I do? , I think since he told me it is over thursday he is just going a little crazy. HELP!!!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> *I think since he told me it is over thursday he is just going a little crazy. HELP!!!*


You think?

I think your backing off is the right thing to do. Since he is officially ending the marriage he has a few things he needs to do.

A. He must pull the trigger on the Divorce.
B. He must maintain his relationships with his children.

Notice how I did not add shutting off the kids cell phones or taking you off the account as an administrator.

Wow, your STBH is off to a great start.

While I think it is great that you remind your Daughter to be respectful of her father I also think you are going to have to let this play out.

Hopefully your 14 year old will grow up a little as hurt as she is.

And hopefully your husband will grow up a lot.

And guess what, your in the middle no matter what you do.

But if my wife ever pulled this nonsense, She would not be walking the in house at anytime whether her name is on the mortgage or not.

ANd I would have my own cell phone plan without her on it as well.

Start thinking down the road and getting ready when he pulls the trigger on the Divorce.

And my last comment; you asked who would want a woman in her 40's with 3 kids in one of your earlier posts???

Many men would. You sound like a great catch, who leads an active family, social, spiritual and professional life.

It is not your fault that "HE" changed. ANd it sounds like his changes are not for the better.....

HM64


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks HM64 - The other thing that sucks is that according to the attorneys as long as we are married and he is on the mortgage he can come and go as he pleases. She said the only way to get him to stay out is to file myself....double edge sword. I have drafted a letter asking him to give me some space and grieve the marriage on my own. I asked him not to enter the house etc...for awhile. Just drop the kids off etc.... I am having some people I trust review it first. Thanks for listening!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Of course you cannot lock him out of his own house.

But you can ask him to stop walking in or dropping by when he feels like it......

Will he respect your requests? Time will tell.....

But probably not right away. The way he handled the cell phones speaks volumes of where his head is and how he reacts to problems.

And while I admire you still loving him and wanting to Reconcile you cannot do it alone.

You love the man he was. That guy is gone. And you cannot live your life waiting for him to return.

So while you wait for him to drop the hammer focus on you.

And your children.

Because if he was a good man, a good husband and a good father; he would have tried a lot harder that he did if you can even call what he did "trying".


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I am really having a hard time today. I just don't understand after 23 years someone getting up and deciding they no longer want this life. I get that obviously he's been thinking about this for a long time. But why couldn't he tell me. I would have done anything. (Besides risking my sobriety or my children.) If you wanted more time to do activities no problem, we could have worked it out. If he wanted to have more space in the house, work or meet some new friends...... we could have talked about it and worked it out. 

I just don't understand how you can be silent while your whole world around you is crumbling. We have such a blessed life we have 3 beautiful children, a nice home, so many friends, so many family around us, we still have lots of laughs and still enjoy being together. I guess I can answer for myself, because he's not here. The dream we created together is not what he wants anymore. 

Last week, I offered to give him 4-6 months to come in and out of the house, be with the kids, spend some time alone with me, go again to MC and figure out what he needs in our marriage. But he doesn't want it. The counselor with even very surprised that he wouldn't take the offer.....what is the rush? Something or someone keeps pulling him away and I guess I have no choice I just need to walk and except that they'll be something better out there for me. Walk through the pain. 

Do I sound like a whiner??? I feel like I do sometimes. It's like let go....your healthy and could have a great life ahead!! ?????

Just my feelings right now! Thanks for listening!

~Amy


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

ATC- read you story and saw many similarities to mine. Good luck to you and stay strong!


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks SOCA, 
Oddly enough, your is one of the few threads that I have completely read. I have been interested in reading how she seems to act like “dry” drunk so often. I wish she would get into a 12 step program. She might get some clarity ?? Best wishes!


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

So here's the thing I'm getting worried about custody. My husband is the one who left 8 months ago. To my knowledge there has been no infidelity ( no proof) and there certainly is no abuse. My husband is incredibly involved with the children. He loves playing with them, shows up for sports events, and loves to hang out with them all the time. 

However he is just like a Disney dad. I did everything for the children. Schedule appointments , all school events. You name it. I do absolutely everything. (I assure everyone it is not by choice.) In fact I was a stay at home mom for 5 years before I started my business. When I started my business I kept asking my husband for a lot more help. This is some of the problem I believe we are dealing with today. He has rented a home 10 miles from here, works in sales and can have some your erratic hours. All of our children friends live around our neighborhood or in walking distance. I am just concerned that he is going to want 50/50 custody. 


I don't think I could handle him having the children away that much. I don't think it would be good for the children to sit out at his house in the woods watching deer. Right now since he left we have always done it that he has every other weekend, every Wednesday evening, and every other Monday. Although the joke with my family and friends is he always find an excuse to show up here at the house for something so he can see that kids. I find him outside with my son playing football in the yard. I want them to all be so close but I'm trying to also set up boundaries. Can someone tell me how you handle custody when there is one parent that is obviously the primary caregiver.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> So here's the thing I'm getting worried about custody. My husband is the one who left 8 months ago. To my knowledge there has been no infidelity ( no proof) and there certainly is no abuse. My husband is incredibly involved with the children. He loves playing with them, shows up for sports events, and loves to hang out with them all the time.
> 
> However he is just like a Disney dad. I did everything for the children. Schedule appointments , all school events. You name it. I do absolutely everything. (I assure everyone it is not by choice.) In fact I was a stay at home mom for 5 years before I started my business. When I started my business I kept asking my husband for a lot more help. This is some of the problem I believe we are dealing with today. He has rented a home 10 miles from here, works in sales and can have some your erratic hours. All of our children friends live around our neighborhood or in walking distance. I am just concerned that he is going to want 50/50 custody.
> 
> ...


ATC - this is where you need to discuss with your divorce attorney ASAP. You have some advantages here as you and he have set a precedent and had a schedule in place for 8 months and seems to be working. The courts tend not to want to change something that is in place. Again, I suggest getting with your attorney to begin outlining the arrangement you want and strategizing on how to achieve that.

Also as a follow up about the "dry drunk"...STBX has been attending the odd meeting here and there. I'm thinking (and will encourage) beginning a regular program again for her since her support here is so limited. I know that she has discussed this with her IC. And it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for me either


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Soca, yes I need to get back with my lawyer again. It is just so painful! 

I would definitely check out ALANON for yourself.
How to find a Meeting


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> Soca, yes I need to get back with my lawyer again. It is just so painful!
> 
> I would definitely check out ALANON for yourself.
> How to find a Meeting


Yes I know it is painful. It makes it "real" or at least to me it did. But it's important and necessary to push past the pain for your relationship with your child. Stay strong and I hate to say it "bite the bullet". Being proactive here will be to your advantage.

And thanks for the link!


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

*I am really struggling with my sadness today. 
I love this and after many years of reading it..... I need to start living it !! *

"For me, serenity began when I learned to distinguish between those things that I could change and those I could not. When I admitted that there were people, places, things, and situations over which I was totally powerless, those things began to lose their power over me. I learned that everyone has the right to make their own mistakes, and learn from them, without my interference, judgment, or assistance!

The key to my serenity is acceptance. But "acceptance" does not mean that I have to like it, condone it, or even ignore it. What it does mean is I am powerless to do anything about it... and I have to accept that fact.

Nor does it mean that I have to accept unacceptable behavior. Today I have choices. I no longer have to accept abuse in any form. I can choose to walk away, even if it means stepping out into the unknown. I no longer have to fear "change" or the unknown. I can merely accept it as part of the journey."

*The Big Book (as it is widely known) page #417*


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks for sharing that wonderfully wise passage, ATCE! I really needed to hear that, and start living it too.

Best Wishes, - A12 (who is also a F.O.B. in case it wasn't obvious - LOL!)


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks A12.... then you really understand how hard acceptance is for us!


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I have not posted for a while but have come on every day. I'm really having a hard time accepting that this is over. 

A friend of my STBXH and mine showed up last week out of the clear blue, staying with my husband. I didn't know he was coming. . Is very odd that he was with my STBXH as he hasn't come up to see anybody in the last 10 years. There was a funeral in town that we were to go to....he told me that's why he was here. 

However, things keep popping up with him and I think he is involved with helping my husband make some decisions. Last week my husband made 2 REALLY bold moves towards ending the marriage that were out of character for him. A couple years back this friend got a divorce from his very devoted Italian wife of 25 years. He immediately turned around and married another woman. Unfortunately I don't think a lot of us were surprised if he always was a bit of a chauvinist and like to go to bars and hang out and meet women. 

My STBXH and I always found him very amusing and he certainly was not anybody that we wanted to emulate. When some people around me found out that he was here immediately they said “he's the 1”. (For the last 6 months my counselor and my immediate family have always felt that my STBXH was not making all these decisions on his own.) The MC said several times that he is being coached. But nobody could put a finger on where he was getting some of this strong aggressive advice. I didn't want to believe it. However today I had lunch with a male friend (we all mutually know)apparently they got all together last week. My friend told me it was very obvious that he and my STBXH have spent a lot of time together talking about some of our marriage issues. He said that our friend was more vocal about this situation then my STBXH. I know it really doesn't matter but things are making more sense. 

I really liked my life. I was not always happy and jumping up and down for joy, but I was happy. 

He admitted on the night last month when he said it is over that he did not try enough and that I tried much harder then him. OK, I can see if it were just me to gave up but we have 3 younger children, why not for them? There was no abuse, lying, cheating, stealing, for gods sake I brought him coffee in bed all the time..... Loved to talk to him and hear his stories. I have kept myself in great shape. We have lots of friends and take great trips when we can....and a pretty good sex life. Yes, I got stressed, yes I would B---tch when nothing got done around the house. Yes, I would moan when he wanted to take the 3rd bike ride that week for 2 hours each after work. Or announce that he wanted to go fishing (4 hours away) for the weekend at the last minute..... Yes many times when he would come home after work, I was cranky because I worked also and took care of the kids at the same time. We are in the sh-tty part of life right now. It gets tough with kids and money struggles. But you don’t give up and walk away. That is a coward. I asked him that last night when he told me it was over, “Do you really think it is going to be greener on the other side?” He said “No, I actually see that it is going to be very dark and desolate for awhile.” And I thought ...well ok then, I guess we are done.. 

All in all, I know this makes no difference and I am trying to spend time thinking of my future with the kids and I. But it is so hard to get up some mornings. 

Thoughts?


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## K.C. (Dec 1, 2012)

By hard to get up. What do you mean?

Depression can require professional help and if you are struggling, don't feel ashamed but seek help.

Toxic influences seem to be all to common. Any time there isn't cheating there seems to be some great and wise sage whispering away.

My thoughts. Stop thinking about him and his faults. You have no power over them. Look to yourself. Are there improvements you can make to yourself FOR yourself. Not for him, but for you.

Even if you are more sinned against than sinning, examine your own issues or faults. They are what you can control. Are you totally hapy with the person you are?

You need to be happy with the person you see when you look inside. If you can do that, you wont need someone else.

there can be many things to work n that don't mean you are a bad person or have failed. Honest introspection can be a great friend to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it can definitely be difficult to get up at times.

No one wants to see their marriage go away. But there are times when it's the best thing that can be done.

Focus on *you*. Be strong.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Allowing

Write a note to yourself.

It can be as simple as "F Him" or "You can do it!"

A phrase that will mean something to you. Put it on your mirror in the bathroom or in your bedroom.

Where you will see it as you get up. Hell, tape it too your alarm clock.

Use it to motivate you.

Then do just that. 

Make a plan and move forward. Speak to your attorney so you and the kids are protected.

And while your husband is a good father I do not think he was that good a man. And in the end, your kids will remember what he did to your family and realize the difference.

That day will come but for now make the decisions that need to be made.

Take it one day at a time.

HM64


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## notdone (Jan 7, 2013)

ATC- I'm sorry you're going through this. I second the advice here. Please remember he left, you didn't. Seek God and get to healing. My situation is practically a mirror of yours, only a few months ahead. The healing begins with God and you accepting that you really are good and valuable, loyal and true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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