# Alimony in Florida - Still as bad?



## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

Hi, 

I noticed there are several posts going back 5, 6 or more years about Alimony in FL being bad, possibly lasting a life-time and not necessarily in the husbands favor. Is that still the case or has anything changed dramatically. I am basically a poor Uber driver who barely makes minimum wage. Should I consider taking my wheels to Texas and establishing residence there while Ubering? My wife hasn't worked for the past decade and has no intentions of getting a job. I really don't feel like having to pay for her laziness for the rest of my life. 

thx much for your input


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old are you two? How long have you been married?


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

Early 40s, married for 10 years, we have a 9 and 10 year old. I have been paying for everything. I am reading the thread by @BeachGuy (How bad did you get hit financially) and stuff sounds scary in FL.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Calculating Income*

The income that you use in your calculation factors will help determine the correct amount of alimony that you may owe or receive. In order to get an accurate estimate when calculating your income:

Use net income instead of gross income
Include retirement benefits, pensions, dividends and interest
If no income is indicated, the court must find that unemployment is voluntary or find that a spouse is voluntarily earning less to avoid working or making alimony payments 

If a spouse if unemployed to seek education to enhance their job seeking efforts, the court will determine if this is in the best interest for supporting the alimony payments



https://www.lafrancelaw.com/tampa-alimony-attorney/alimony-calculator/


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think that there have been a lot of changes in Florida having to do with alimony. But apparently the legislature is getting ready to change some laws, maybe in 2019.

At your income level, I'm not sure that they can take all that much from you. According to the link I posted above, the court will assume that your wife is not working on purpose and impute income for her. So they will assume that she makes minimum wage. If the two of you make about minimum wage, I don't see why you'd be hit with any alimony. Plus, Florida now is open to 50/50 custody. With you two earning about the same amount of income and having the children 50/50, there should be no child support either.

How long have you worked at minimum wage levels? Is this something fairly new? Or have you been support a family of 4 on about $8.25/hour for your entire marriage?


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

I appreciate your input. Do you have any information pertaining the length of alimony payments in FL. In beachguys thread it says that in Texas it would be no longer than 3 years. Is there a similar cap in my situation? My wife does not make minimum wage. She is simply refusing to work. I had several steady full-time jobs over the past several years averaging 50K annually. We don't own property or have any "retirement benefits, pensions, dividends and interest"


Re: How long have you worked at minimum wage levels? Is this something fairly new? Or have you been support a family of 4 on about $8.25/hour for your entire marriage? 

I just happened to be in between contracts and using Uber/Lyft to fill the gap while I interview for my next fulltime job. Little money is better than no money. But at the same time, wouldn't earning less be more beneficial when it comes to Alimony payments.


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Florida now is open to 50/50 custody. With you two earning about the same amount of income and having the children 50/50, there should be no child support either.


I am cool with the 50/50. The problem is that my wife has no income whatsoever and no intentions in seeking employment and obviously I am concerned about how she is going to hold up to her 50% share upon me filling in this state. She has no place to go, she can't afford rent with $0 income. Where are the kids going to stay when they are with her....on the street?

At the same time, I obviously need her to watch the children because how I am supposed to go driving once the kids get out of school every day? Who is going to take care of them. Its just problems after problems. Financially we are in no position to divorce or separate unless she is willing to go to work and she refuses.

Is there anyway that I can have the court force my wife to seek employment prior to engaging in this whole separation / divorce process or can this only be done after filling?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tampa99 said:


> I appreciate your input. Do you have any information pertaining the length of alimony payments in FL. In beachguys thread it says that in Texas it would be no longer than 3 years. Is there a similar cap in my situation?


Here's a link to a site that might help answer that,

https://www.18884mydivorce.com/florida-alimony-law/

You could learn a lot by googling your questions. There is tons of info online. Plus, amazon.com sells self help books for divorce in each state.




tampa99 said:


> My wife does not make minimum wage. She is simply refusing to work.


Yes, I get that your wife does not have a job and does not earn a living. You did not understand the point I was making.

My statement was that they would "impute" an income for her... meaning that they will assume that she can make at least minimum wage and so enter that amount for her when they determine alimony. This means that they assume she can get a job earning at least minimum wage. 



tampa99 said:


> I had several steady full-time jobs over the past several years averaging 50K annually. We don't own property or have any "retirement benefits, pensions, dividends and interest"


Ok, this is what I was wondering about. So you normally earn more than minimum wage. You need a good lawyer because she might be able to argue that you are only working at the uber think to try to not pay alimony. It's not uncommon for a higher earning spouse to quit a job and do something low pay to try to get out of paying alimony. Now if your line of work makes it so that your employment is not steady, that an issue too that needs to be considered.

You need to talk to any attorney, or start reading up like crazy to become very well versed on how to handle this.



tampa99 said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > How long have you worked at minimum wage levels? Is this something fairly new? Or have you been support a family of 4 on about $8.25/hour for your entire marriage?
> ...


Nope, because they look at your work history, not necessarily what you are earning at the moment.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tampa99 said:


> I am cool with the 50/50. The problem is that my wife has no income whatsoever and no intentions in seeking employment and obviously I am concerned about how she is going to hold up to her 50% share upon me filling in this state. She has no place to go, she can't afford rent with $0 income. Where are the kids going to stay when they are with her....on the street?
> 
> At the same time, I obviously need her to watch the children because how I am supposed to go driving once the kids get out of school every day? Who is going to take care of them. Its just problems after problems. Financially we are in no position to divorce or separate unless she is willing to go to work and she refuses.
> 
> Is there anyway that I can have the court force my wife to seek employment prior to engaging in this whole separation / divorce process or can this only be done after filling?


No, the courts cannot force anyone to get a job. But they can assume that the person can get a job make any settlement based on the assumption that they do get a job. So, it's kind of a passive aggressive way to force her to get a job.

Does she know you are seriously considering divorce?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You need to talk to a lawyer asap. Many will give a free 15-30 minute consultation where they will answer your questions and explain how things work where you live. You need real data from experts who know the laws and judges where you are.

One topic to ask about is a psych eval for your wife.

You need to document her bad behaviour in a diary, along with all you are doing to take care of the kids. This will help with child custody as well as possibly get the court to require she get a psych eval.

Moving to Texas may or may not help. If she stays in Florida she could petition the Texas court that the proper jurisdiction is Florida. You would have to consult with a good lawyer familiar with Texas law and possibly Florida law. Moving the kids with you, and her if she’ll go, would improve your argument that you are actually Texas residents.

Since she doesn’t work she would have little ability to block you moving.


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> No, the courts cannot force anyone to get a job. But they can assume that the person can get a job make any settlement based on the assumption that they do get a job. So, it's kind of a passive aggressive way to force her to get a job.
> 
> Does she know you are seriously considering divorce?



I see what you are saying. 

The current situation is this. I just don't want to continue living with her this way anymore. I bust my butt from morning til night while she enjoys a much more relaxed lifestyle. She seems delusional of the fact that we are going through financial hardship but still continues to refuse to work or even apply for work. My wife thinks that divorce means that nothing is going to change in regards to her lifestyle with the only exception that I won't be living there anymore but somewhere else and we share the kids and I make Alimony payments. She thinks that all of her bills will be paid by me and on top of that I will also be covering a 2nd residence and all expenses that go along with that. We are currently renting a house and our lease is going to expire in a couple months. I left a retainer with a divorce lawyer back in 2014 when I found out about my wifes ongoing affair(s) while I was making decent money at my 9-5 job. Back then my attorney informed that once she is served with papers and we separate assets etc. she won't be able to move where I move. This has been an ongoing battle since everytime there is an argument she screams from the top of her lungs "I WANT A F...... DIVORCE". My response is usually in the form of "I will be happy to do that as soon as you get a bank account and a job" ... both of us agree that we are not happy in the relationship and want something else. She is just very hard to reason with.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

more reading - "Florida divorce infidelity"

https://www.myfloridalaw.com/divorce/adultery-and-divorce-in-florida/

Is she still cheating?

Do the two of you still have sexual relations since you found out about the infidelity? This can have an impact in come cases.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tampa99 said:


> I see what you are saying.
> 
> The current situation is this. I just don't want to continue living with her this way anymore. I bust my butt from morning til night while she enjoys a much more relaxed lifestyle. She seems delusional of the fact that we are going through financial hardship but still continues to refuse to work or even apply for work. My wife thinks that divorce means that nothing is going to change in regards to her lifestyle with the only exception that I won't be living there anymore but somewhere else and we share the kids and I make Alimony payments. She thinks that all of her bills will be paid by me and on top of that I will also be covering a 2nd residence and all expenses that go along with that. We are currently renting a house and our lease is going to expire in a couple months. I left a retainer with a divorce lawyer back in 2014 when I found out about my wifes ongoing affair(s) while I was making decent money at my 9-5 job. Back then my attorney informed that once she is served with papers and we separate assets etc. she won't be able to move where I move. This has been an ongoing battle since everytime there is an argument she screams from the top of her lungs "I WANT A F...... DIVORCE". My response is usually in the form of "I will be happy to do that as soon as you get a bank account and a job" ... both of us agree that we are not happy in the relationship and want something else. She is just very hard to reason with.


You need to start getting a record of your wife's abusive behavior. 

Unfortunately, Florida has 2 party consent law for recording conversations. So you cannot just have a hidden VAR (voice activated recorder) and use what you get on it in court. But I still think that a VAR is a good idea for your own use.

Talk to a lawyer about what to do to handle her yelling and what should like bad behavior. Unfortunately, once you get a divorce, the children will be alone with her a good part of the time. So she will be the only parental influence they have a lot of the time.

If this were me, I'd be worried about how she interacts with the children we I was not there. For that reason, I'd hide a VAR or 2 or 3 around the house (sort of a nanny cam type thing) and find out what's going on when I'm not there. She might be treating your children as badly as she treats you.

You need to find out what goes on when you are not there.

Start working with an attorney, make a plan and start working it.

Does your wife have access to a bank account... like a joint account? 

Which of you does the grocery shopping? 

While it's considered financial abuse (a type of domestic abuse) to cut a spouse off from access to money, you might want to put a limit on what she has access to. If she can't buy the things she wants, she might go get a job.

One thing you might want to impress on her is that the most she can get from you is 50% of your income. That means that she will be living on about $4 an hour right now. And when you get your next job, one half of whatever you make. When the law says that the idea is to preserve the marital standard of living, it's a goal that is almost never achieved. Generally the standard of living is reduced to 50% for all parties. Your standard of living needs to be maintained as much as hers does.

Pay the bills and buy food, meds.. only essentials. And don't give her a penny more. If she wants something, the needs to get a job.

Take her house/apartment hunting in the worse part of town, to the absolute most horrible places and tell her that she is going to have so little to live on that this is where she will live just like you will be and your children will be. Show her the amount of money that she is going to have. Shoot she might not even be able to afford that until you get another job.

Tell her that she can always apply for welfare.

But you need to file for divorce as soon as possible because you are approaching the length of marriage that could lead to life-long alimony.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

The longer you stay, the longer you'll support her. Florida considers a marriage of 17 years or longer one of longevity. You have been married for 10 years. The current law stipulates that the longest you would pay alimony would be 10 years. There's also the issue of your wife's unemployment. Did she work prior to marriage? Does she have any training/education that would enable her to get gainful employment at the present time? 

Alimony is generally rehabilitative in nature. So your wife's pipe dream of sitting on her can all day will vaporize if you divorce. She may well be entitled to some sort of training, but she's not going to get $$ from you for the rest of her life.

I'm not sure why you are hesitant to divorce this anchor around your neck. Unless she has stashed money away in a mayonnaise jar (or a secret bank account), I doubt she'll have legal representation that would enable her to negotiate in her favor.

Moving to Texas might be favorable; however, Texas is also a community property (50/50) state so it may be of no benefit to move.


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

Thor said:


> You need to talk to a lawyer asap. Many will give a free 15-30 minute consultation where they will answer your questions and explain how things work where you live. You need real data from experts who know the laws and judges where you are.
> 
> One topic to ask about is a psych eval for your wife.
> 
> ...


First of all, THANK YOU very much for your input. 

Back when she was having a longer affair I went and got a lawyer and paid him a retainer back in 2014 for serving her with papers etc. which I have not pursued at that point. I met with the attorney one time. The advice he gave me during that point was sound. He said something along these lines: "The quickest divorces are the ones where you agree on most points and you both come in and sign the papers"

The main reason I have not pursued the separation process several years back was because the kids were just significantly younger and required a lot more attention i.e. bathing, feeding, dressing. I wasn't ready to become a single dad and I was also under the assumption that I could pretend playing happy family without disrupting their well being. Also her lover was providing her with addtl. financial support and was willing to contribute to her legal fees etc. So I stuck it out and the affair ended itself several months later. Now it's almost 5 years later and I am starting to realize that this isn't going anywhere and I may actually be doing the wrong thing since the kids are not being raised within an ideal loving husband / wife scenario. They are growing up watching us battle while sleeping in separate rooms and the silent treatment that goes along with it. There are days when I can't even look at my wife and avoiding eye-contact or times when I can't even stand being in the same room with her. I want my kids to be able to have their own "normal" relationships later on in life and I am not sure if they will by watching us and thinking this is normal. Cause it is obviously not! Kids are older now and can take care of a lot of things on their own but their financial needs are increasing constantly ....new clothing, new games, favorite food items, out-of-house activities etc. I am about to get hired for another $4-$5K per month full-time job but its just not going to cut it in the longer run. While we have numerous problems I think that financial problems play a significant role. 

I will make a new appointment with my lawyer though asap just to provide an update on my status. She seems to have developed a plan on her own and is now threatening to have me arrested supposedly for emotional abuse. Siiiigh


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> If this were me, I'd be worried about how she interacts with the children we I was not there.



She doesn't interact that much at all which is actually one of my greater concerns. My 9 yr old daughter is asking me the other day about .... "Hey dad, how do you steal a car? I was watching this channel on youtube". I don't need a nanny cam. I know exactly what she does. She is tied up on her cellphone, walking around the house texting etc. or she is on her laptop. No reasoning with her as far as time spent etc. I pay for the phone and Internet. I tried limiting this in various ways. She will turn hostile. 

I understand that every mom is different and people may have different parenting styles. My wife however is soo self-involved chasing fake fame and glory on social media that she completely neglects to interact with anyone in real life. Her kids from previous marriage who are in their late 20s have all unsubbed from any of her social media outlets and referring to her as a "like-*****", meaning she is way more concerned about updating her followers with fresh online content to get "likes" and "shares" than doing anything with the kids in the house. Our kids are being raised by Youtube. I can't blame them. Just look at their role model. "If its ok for mommy why not for me"

Have you ever tried getting a true addict to admit to the addiction? My wife has no friends within the community. She has no interest in making any friends in real-life. Her friends are whoever likes her stupid s...t on Facebook.


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## tampa99 (Sep 16, 2018)

...need to hit the road for a while. Thanks to everyone for their unique input and insights. You guys rock! thanks again


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You need to VAR for your own security. Even though not necessarily legal it could save your butt. If secretly recording her is not to your liking, you could record yourself notifying her that you will be recording all interactions from now on.


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