# Another statistic



## leo74

I have been with my wife for 12 years and married for over 7. Through my investigations I have recently found she cheated on me. She has carried on a 6 month affair with another married man that ended in early December. I am confident it is over. I confronted her and I believe she has been truthful on what exactly has occurred.
Why did she cheat? I most certainly have not given her what she has needed in a very long time and I take full responsibility for my short comings as a husband. This of course does not justify the infidelity. I do not know how but I feel a sense that I might actually be able to forgive her some day and I still love her. We have done more talking in the last 5 days than we had done in the previous 9 years it feels like. Some of the conversations not good as I question what she did exactly and some of the conversations are good as I realize that we have wanted many of the same things but just lacked the tools to give them to each other.
I believe we are heading on a path to reconciliation. 
Now for my question. Although in the end, my wife was a willfull participant in this affair it appears to me he was the initial aggressor. She gave into his manipulation as he played on the simple things that I wasn't giving her. A predator almost. There needs to be consequences for everyone in this situation. 

1- Me - my wife cheated as a result of my failure to serve her emotional needs.
2- My wife - she got caught and has risked potential divorce 
3- The other man - ? Nothing

I have the ability to contact the other mans wife and I have details about him and also a few emails from my wife to him. I also know that he has cheated on his wife in the past and that she knows about it. Im fairly confident she doesn't know about my wife though. I want to call her and tell her what else her husband had been doing from June until December 2012. We will then all have consequences. Basically I want revenge.


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## lonewolf8545

If you were in the other wife's shoes would you want to know? I know I would. I think you should tell her.


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## Viseral

Do it.


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## LdyVenus

lonewolf8545 said:


> If you were in the other wife's shoes would you want to know? I know I would. I think you should tell her.



:iagree:


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## Vanguard

While I don't condone executing our own vengeance, that particular sentiment must be temporarily curbed because something much more important confronts us right now:

The wife needs to know. Please, please tell her. Now.


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## Humble Pie

I never saw a question in all of that??? However, I can comment that I wish you the best of luck with R, and its sounds like you are happy with her new behavior as the communication lines have opened up beyond what they have ever been in your marriage. Communication is the key to all successful relationships!

Having said that, yes communicate with his wife that he has betrayed her again, do your part of the healing process for them, you owe him that.


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## The Middleman

The wife needs to know, tell her.
Revenge feels good. Tell her.
What is your wife going to do to pay for her transgression? Or are,you going to let her get away with: "I'll be a good girl from now on"


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## Will_Kane

I would call it justice.


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## Gabriel

The Middleman said:


> The wife needs to know, tell her.
> Revenge feels good. Tell her.
> What is your wife going to do to pay for her transgression? Or are,you going to let her get away with: "I'll be a good girl from now on"


Yep, if you do reconcile, your wife needs to have consequences as well. If the guy works with her, she has to quit her job or transfer. If they met when she was out on a girls night out (GNO), then no more GNOs. If it started over Facebook, then she needs to give you access to her Facebook account, email account, etc (she should do that anyway). Etc, etc.


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## walkonmars

leo74 said:


> .
> 
> 1- Me - my wife cheated as a result of my failure to serve her emotional needs.
> 2- My wife - she got caught and has risked potential divorce
> 3- The other man - ? Nothing


You had a consequence for your part of a failing marriage.

But like a thief who risks jail & gets caught - yet avoids jail/fines, your wife has not seen any consequence for either (1) her part of the failing marriage or (2) her part in the affair - regardless of who initiated the affair.

I'm not advocating you make her "suffer a consequence", I just want you to process your thoughts clearly. So if 'risking divorce' was a consequence for her, it's the same as saying "risking prison" is the consequence for commiting crimes. The "risk" is not a consequence at all.

Be that as it may, TELL HER.


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## LetDownNTX

You need to tell the wife by phone or in person so that her WH cant intercept an email from you. She needs to know! Especially if he's done it in the past.


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## tom67

Yes preferably tell her in person at the very least by phone and show her the proof you have.


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## Chaparral

leo74 said:


> I have been with my wife for 12 years and married for over 7. Through my investigations I have recently found she cheated on me. She has carried on a 6 month affair with another married man that ended in early December. I am confident it is over. I confronted her and I believe she has been truthful on what exactly has occurred.
> Why did she cheat? I most certainly have not given her what she has needed in a very long time and I take full responsibility for my short comings as a husband. This of course does not justify the infidelity. I do not know how but I feel a sense that I might actually be able to forgive her some day and I still love her. We have done more talking in the last 5 days than we had done in the previous 9 years it feels like. Some of the conversations not good as I question what she did exactly and some of the conversations are good as I realize that we have wanted many of the same things but just lacked the tools to give them to each other.
> I believe we are heading on a path to reconciliation.
> Now for my question. Although in the end, my wife was a willfull participant in this affair it appears to me he was the initial aggressor. She gave into his manipulation as he played on the simple things that I wasn't giving her. A predator almost. There needs to be consequences for everyone in this situation.
> 
> 1- Me - my wife cheated as a result of my failure to serve her emotional needs.
> 2- My wife - she got caught and has risked potential divorce
> 3- The other man - ? Nothing
> 
> I have the ability to contact the other mans wife and I have details about him and also a few emails from my wife to him. I also know that he has cheated on his wife in the past and that she knows about it. Im fairly confident she doesn't know about my wife though. I want to call her and tell her what else her husband had been doing from June until December 2012. We will then all have consequences. Basically I want revenge.


How are you verifying that the affair is over? Many times we see thta the affair goes underground it ths APs think a spouse is suspicous.


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## mahike

Leo She has the right to know so she can make an informed decision as to stay or go. More important AP's do not go away on there own. At some point he would come looking for your wife again. It is called fishing. When you expose the A to sunlight any fog left will just disapate. The POS OM's W will rag his ass hard causing him pain. It will also reinforce the stay away from my wife as well

Your wife will get angry with you when you expose. That is because she was at least for 6 months hiding the A and protecting herself and him. She will go back to that mode for a short term.

It is best for you to expose and stomp out the last of the embers from both parties


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## Entropy3000

leo74 said:


> I have been with my wife for 12 years and married for over 7. Through my investigations I have recently found she cheated on me. She has carried on a 6 month affair with another married man that ended in early December. I am confident it is over. I confronted her and I believe she has been truthful on what exactly has occurred.
> Why did she cheat? I most certainly have not given her what she has needed in a very long time and I take full responsibility for my short comings as a husband. This of course does not justify the infidelity. I do not know how but I feel a sense that I might actually be able to forgive her some day and I still love her. We have done more talking in the last 5 days than we had done in the previous 9 years it feels like. Some of the conversations not good as I question what she did exactly and some of the conversations are good as I realize that we have wanted many of the same things but just lacked the tools to give them to each other.
> I believe we are heading on a path to reconciliation.
> Now for my question. Although in the end, my wife was a willfull participant in this affair it appears to me he was the initial aggressor. She gave into his manipulation as he played on the simple things that I wasn't giving her. A predator almost. There needs to be consequences for everyone in this situation.
> 
> 1- Me - my wife cheated as a result of my failure to serve her emotional needs.
> 2- My wife - she got caught and has risked potential divorce
> 3- The other man - ? Nothing
> 
> I have the ability to contact the other mans wife and I have details about him and also a few emails from my wife to him. I also know that he has cheated on his wife in the past and that she knows about it. Im fairly confident she doesn't know about my wife though. I want to call her and tell her what else her husband had been doing from June until December 2012. We will then all have consequences. Basically I want revenge.


I think you want accountability. But indeed you have every right for revenge as a predator has helped kill your marriage as it was. If you reconsile it will be a different marriage. You have lost the old one forever. He basically poached your wife. 

But beyond you holding him accountable his wife needs to know.

This does not mean you cannot hold your wife accountable, but you are trying to R with her and not him. 

Expose the affair. This is also part of the consequences for your wife. Otherwise the OM is still lurking unscathed.

But you cannot rug sweep this. You are not to blame. Do not let her use her sexual activities manipulate you so you will meet her needs. Remember an affair partner does not heavy lifting. It is a fantasy. They only have to meet a few needs and many of those are just about brain chemicals and a real fantasy.

Do His Needs Her Needs together. But do not accept that you pushed your wife into an affair. That is blame shifting if she does this. You can be a near perfect husband and still have a wife that cake eats.


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## The-Deceived

Your story mirrors mine exactly. Best of luck. We are working on R and it's going well. Sadly, the pain of your wife's betrayal will never fully go away. It's hands down the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with.

Stay strong my friend.


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## Ovid

You should tell his wife. She has a right to know.


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## Thor

No, your wife cheating was not the consequence of your failure in the marriage. A bad marriage is the consequence of your failings in the relationship. The cheating was a whole additional choice she made.

She could have chosen to talk to you. She could have told you she was not happy because of XYZ. She could have simply filed for divorce without saying anything at all. She could have suffered in silence and you both could have bumped along in a cruddy marriage.

Those are all consequences you would have deserved from being a poor partner. (I say that knowing I was a poor partner myself).

So don't beat yourself up thinking you somehow "deserve" the pain from her infidelity. You did not earn that. The pain is her special gift to you by her bad choices.


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## mahike

Thor is right on to remind you the A is your wifes fault. No one made her the failings in the marriage but do not allow the A to be swept under the rug


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## TRy

leo74 said:


> Why did she cheat? I most certainly have not given her what she has needed in a very long time and I take full responsibility for my short comings as a husband. This of course does not justify the infidelity. I do not know how but I feel a sense that I might actually be able to forgive her some day and I still love her. We have done more talking in the last 5 days than we had done in the previous 9 years it feels like. Some of the conversations not good as I question what she did exactly and some of the conversations are good as I realize that we have wanted many of the same things but just lacked the tools to give them to each other.


 Do not accept any blame for why she cheated. She did not cheat because of you not meeting her emotional needs. If you read other threads on this and other boards you will she that all cheaters use that excuse for their cheating. This is called blame shifting. No one is perfect, yet cheaters will hold their spouses to a standard of perfection that they do not hold to themselves because they want an excuse to cheat. If she really was unhappy she needed to talk to you and give you a fair chance. The very fact that you are so willing to accept blame and try harder to be a better spouse, proves that this excuse is not true because it shows that communication with you instead of cheating would have worked. You are both 50%-50% to blame for problems in your marriage. She as the cheater is 100% to blame for her cheating.



leo74 said:


> I believe we are heading on a path to reconciliation.


 Wow you just found out, accepted false blame, and are ready to reconcile. Your wife is thinking that this is too easy. That she can do it again or continue the affair in a few months and that you will not leave her even if she gets caught again. She is thinking that next time she will work smarter at hiding it from you. Even if you want to reconcile, do not let her know this right now. Make her earn it by showing true remorse and by her actions. Also, for starters, demand full transparency, which includes knowing of all accounts and passwords. 



leo74 said:


> Although in the end, my wife was a willfull participant in this affair it appears to me he was the initial aggressor. She gave into his manipulation as he played on the simple things that I wasn't giving her. A predator almost.


 Although it makes you feel better, he is not some kind of special predator. He is just a normal man trolling for sex and your wife willingly took the bait. If not him it would have been another guy for reasons that you will never know if you accept this predator theory as fact.


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## Ovid

The guy that went after my wife was clearly a preditor. She still clearly had a choice. She made the wrong one. 

There are tons of these guys out there. If the women they chased didn't go along with it they'd have no luck. He's only the OM because she agreed to it.


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## doc_martin

Tell her. She deserves to know. 

The times I did, she was so thankful (even though it didn't stop them either).

Also, if you want any chance at reconciliation, it is best to expose. So many here have gone down the path of trying to let it slide, only to find out that the behavior repeats itself (myself included). If there are not consequences, then the pleasure of the affair outweighs the need to "do right" when they start sliding backwards again. If the consequences are so bad, they will think twice about it. Or at least they might.

You don't want to be the one who looks back at this 1, 2, 3 years from now and says "I could have saved myself a lot of pain, by listening to everyone". And we are a special everyone. We are not the ones who have never been through this saying "kick that B*tch to the curb", no, we are the battle hardened through this same process telling you "If you want to save this marriage, this is what you must do". If you want to divorce, then do whatever you want...


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## alte Dame

I'm one voice here that always advocates for telling the AP's spouse, not just because it helps kill the affair or achieve revenge or otherwise support reconciliation.

I believe you must tell the OMW because is is the decent thing to do.

She has every right in the world to have all the information out there about her own personal life. If her H is the dog, repeat offender that you imply, she may well just be adding this info to the stack, but you will have done your duty as a decent, moral, honest human being.


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## Acabado

Don't let BW make life altering decisions (as not getting her health cheched out, getting pregnant, signing a mortage...) with all the real info of what's going on in her life. She's also a victim, let her decide.

Sorry you had to be here. Start reading more threads, the stikies. I encourage you (both) to read Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass.
Then go to marriage builders to read about emotional needs and love busters. Make a plan to rebuild the marriage. Read here to help your self heal from this betrayal.


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## the guy

Tell the OMW.

Make damb sure your old lady learns the tools to affair proof the marriage before you deside to take her back.

As you learn the tools to be a better husband your chick has the same responceablity to prevent this sh1t from happening again.

Having been there, I wouldn't have it any other way. 

I mean if I can do the heavy lifting to stop slapping my old lady around, she can do the same to stop sleeping around, and if she can't then she knows were the phucking door is, so don't let it hit her in the @ss on the way out.

My point is, its so easy to take the rap for being a crappy husband, but in the end she had a choice...leave my butt or betray me...well both our chick made the choice to decieve us and that just doesn't cut it when we are doing the work to better our selfs and they just try to justify there own deciet.


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## leo74

TRy said:


> Wow you just found out, accepted false blame, and are ready to reconcile. Your wife is thinking that this is too easy. That she can do it again or continue the affair in a few months and that you will not leave her even if she gets caught again. She is thinking that next time she will work smarter at hiding it from you. Even if you want to reconcile, do not let her know this right now. Make her earn it by showing true remorse and by her actions. Also, for starters, demand full transparency, which includes knowing of all accounts and passwords.


I dont feel as if I am accepting blame for her cheating but I am surely accepting blame for my short comings as a husband. It is just a terrible shame and totally gut wrenching she made the choice she did and the way she did it. I am beginning to understand that forgiveness may be possible but I certainly will never forget. I have a list of things she must do in order to regain my trust. Those things must be agreed upon before I can completely begin working on giving her the non-material things that I know I am capable of giving! Hopefully the marriage counseler will put things in perspective for both us. We clearly have two issues. One being our failed marriage for which we each own 50% and the second her infidelity for which she owns 100%. I feel she may see things slightly different though but thats probably expected in cases such as these. Time will tell.


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## Workingitout

I told my wife's A partner. She was very cautious on the phone with me. When I contacted her again, she replied to my email with "lose my email, don't ever contact me again.....ever!"
Either her and her husband did their healing and moved on, or he lied his way out of it. Either way, I let it go and moved on to focus on my marriage. While I wish for revenge like many others, something I remind myself is that "when you dig a grave for someone else, dig one for yourself as well". Reminding myself of this, causes me to move in a different direction, rather than seek revenge. God will take care of him in whatever way is appropriate. I don't need to help.


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## leo74

Thank you for all of the advice. I have not made any final decision on telling the spouse due to mistakes I believe I made in the first 24-48 hours after I found out about my wife's infidelity. I think I would rather concentrate on any potential reconciliation then revenge or "justice" as some of you have stated. I think I will use the post to spill some of my thoughts in between as they are theraputic in a way. We have our first marriage counseling session tomorrow. She has agreed to attempt to reconcile. She has apologized in a sincere manner even taking responsibility for the affair. Acknowleding she should have "shaken" me until I understood what she was lacking instead of acting out the way she chose. I believe she wants to reconcile. I have concerns that she truly understands what it will take.

I never thought I would be in this position as one of the traits I thought I loved most about my wife was her "dedication and loyalty". What a fool I was. No one is ever safe. The 6 month affair was so emotional in her eyes and took place in such a deceitful and premeditated way through that period it makes me want to throw-up everytime I think about it. How was she capable of the utter disrespect for me as a human being much less her husband? The multiple "meetings" with her affair partner she fit in between her part time work and her responsibilities as a mother all the while I was working 50 hours a week to pay the bills and renovating our kitchen through the months of Sept., Oct and Nov. on weekends. Doing what I thought was my duty as the head of household. Providing the nicest "things" I could afford for my family. Putting the infidelity aside, that is certainly the main underlying issue related to our marriage. Those "things" are not what she wanted at all. She wanted simple non-material things that I woefully understimated as important. Those simple non-material things are painfully apparent now and I am ashamed of myself of how easy it probably was to avoid this acting out she chose. I am turning into a spiritual being I guess you would say. Things are not so black and white these past few days. There are other forces and energy here that will help me get through this I feel. However, no matter what...the path she chose is NOT my fault!

Again, I am comfortable the affair was over before I found out. She has indicated he was the one who ended it "to work things about between himself and his wife". What if I never found out? She was so emotionally connected to this guy from what I can tell. The funny thing is when I first found out I stated I was going to his house and after I left the room she warned him via text. She also has texted him on about something else I found on the internet that clearly indicates it was common knowledge in the community that this man had cheated on his wife before. I am not surprised about this 2nd text. What I found makes her think about how important she really was to this serial adulterer. The contact and connection is still there as I type. Gut wrenching. Does she really get it? I cant trust her anymore. Maybe some day. Certainly not even close yet.

I started to tell her the things that I would need to begin to regain trust and she almost acted surprised at some requests. As if "oh yeah"...there are consequences for what I have done If I make the choice to attempt to reconcile with my husband.
She cant volunteer (as she has had for the pase 8 yrs) at the place she had originally met this man, she cant be a part of the other volunteer organization if he was going to be there, she couldnt play in that unisex softball league if he was going to be there, his number has to be deleted, the men who send her porographic texts on facebook (yes I found those too) have to "de-friended". Full transparancy which I have no problem with must be undertaken. I have nothing to hide. Is she ready for this? Does she get it? Does she really want to? She will have trouble living by "rules" and "lists". What choice do I have? Trust her not to do that anymore? Please. Based on what I have read on the subject, I seriously doubt the marriage counseler will not basically state the same exact things related to complete closure with the affair partner. Trust is earned and we must become "affair proof". After we are "affair proof", I begin my diligent effort on the non-material things she so desires. As a matter of fact I have already started that to a certain extent.
I still love this woman somehow.....we begin our process tomorrow....


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## tom67

Let the omw know also you need another set of eyes watching these two.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

leo,

You seem to be one of the few spouses here on TAM right now that gets it. If you do decide to try to R I have no doubt that you will make sure its done the right way to have a successful marriage going forward. It remains to be seen if your wife has half the courage and intestinal fortitude that you appear to have.

Good luck


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## Wiserforit

tom67 said:


> Let the omw know also you need another set of eyes watching these two.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This, and comparing notes, because you may think you have the whole story, especially when it ended - but there may be something the other man's wife has to say about that.

I don't agree with the vengeance motivation. Getting to the bottom of things, and the other spouse's right to know are more the right motivations, and we have to weigh this against the negatives, like if he is mob-connected and generally kills people that look at him the wrong way.


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## tom67

Wiserforit said:


> This, and comparing notes, because you may think you have the whole story, especially when it ended - but there may be something the other man's wife has to say about that.
> 
> I don't agree with the vengeance motivation. Getting to the bottom of things, and the other spouse's right to know are more the right motivations, and we have to weigh this against the negatives, like if he is mob-connected and generally kills people that look at him the wrong way.


You have to know exactly what you are forgiving her for. The whole story otherwise it's not worth the effort jmo.


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## theroad

For now all I can say is you must tell the OMW.
NC with the OM.
Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.


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## leo74

Building trust again...moments such as this....she was at work today...dropped our daughter off at daycare around noon...did she go straight to work from there?...this is the type of schedule that allowed her to meet with this man.....I asked for a picture of her work schedule like she has provided in the past....she said I will once "I switch some things around".....did she say that because she needed to switch things around to attend our first counseling session tomorrow?...I like to think so and would have thought nothing about it just a few short weeks ago....this is now my life....


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## mahike

leo I would not look at exposure as Justice or Revenge. It is a real aid in R. There is a playbook for cheating of course there are exceptions but I would not count on you being on of them.

Either your wife or that POS will try to contact again. It may be months but it will happen. The exposure is to make sure that A. Someone is riding his A about staying clean and B letting your wife know that you are not a doormat and you will not toleate any BS.

Taking the high ride is what I did and it just kicked my ass. Do not be the nice guy. You also have to remember you love the image of your wife prior to the A. She is not the same woman and you need to work with the one you have know not the one you had.

My wife was not fully invested in the R unitl she knew I was not someone that was going to take any BS.


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## The Middleman

leo74 said:


> Building trust again...moments such as this....she was at work today...dropped our daughter off at daycare around noon...did she go straight to work from there?...this is the type of schedule that allowed her to meet with this man.....I asked for a picture of her work schedule like she has provided in the past....she said I will once "I switch some things around".....did she say that because she needed to switch things around to attend our first counseling session tomorrow?...I like to think so and would have thought nothing about it just a few short weeks ago....this is now my life....


If this is the case, if this is how she is making you feel, then why the hell are you reconciling? If you file for divorce and show that you will follow through with it, you are the one in control of this situation. It shows that you are serious about the hurt she caused you and your not going to take any crap. Once she realizes you mean it, her attitude will change. Whether you realize it or not, you are her Plan B, it's the only reason she is still with you. Be serious, be mean, go apesh1t, file, expose. I think on your current path you're doomed. This is going to happen again.


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## Will_Kane

leo74 said:


> the men who send her porographic texts on facebook (yes I found those too) have to "de-friended".


WHAT? She's got a harem of men who send her pornographic texts on Facebook?


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## leo74

Will_Kane said:


> WHAT? She's got a harem of men who send her pornographic texts on Facebook?


One...he was describing an action he undertook by seeing her profile picture...use your imagination....I wonder if he is still a "friend".


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## tom67

If you file you can always cancel before the date.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars

leo74 said:


> One...he was describing an action he undertook by seeing her profile picture...use your imagination....I wonder if he is still a "friend".


Leo, I know you desperately want to have things be the way they were long ago. They well never be that way again. A few observations:

1. Adultery, engenders excitement, the newness, the secrecy, the sexual act with a new person, - all these things foster a type of addiction. Much like drug addicts. The fact that your wife indulged in these activities for at least 6 months is going to work against you both. She may well want to change (I don't see the desperation for her to do so - and I don't think you're convinced of that either, if you're honest). So, be vigilant for a good while. 

If she's going to start back up, it will be a while, so don't become complacent. Check periodically, IF she's going to continue at a future time, she will have the experience to take it underground and hide it better. Like drug addicts, it's going to be tough for her. They want to give it up but the draw is strong. Especially if there are other men who know what your wife is capable of doing. They have nothing to lose by trying. 

2. If the MC asks you what your part in the affair was and how you intend to fix it. Walk out. The failing marriage was partly your fault, a you stated. But the affair was all her. You had NO PART in the affair - so there is nothing for you to fix on your end.

Too many MCs want you both to walk out of there holding hands - no matter what it takes. It's more difficult to lay the affair on one person than on a shared fault. Don't fall for that. Make the MC work. 

It would be best if the MC is experienced with infidelity in marriage. 

Good luck. Keep us posted. 

2.


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## Goldmember357

What is your wife like might i ask? what is her past like.


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## Will_Kane

leo74 said:


> One...he was describing an action he undertook by seeing her profile picture...use your imagination....I wonder if he is still a "friend".


I take it her profile pic does not include you and the fam?

It's one of her alone in a somewhat sexual pose?


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## donny64

He had no problem destroying your marriage. Screw him. His wife deserves to know. She, and you, are the innocents here. Were the situation reversed, and his wife found out, would you not want her to inform you? I'm betting you would.


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## leo74

The drug analogy rings true in my mind.....in my case it appears the drug dealer (the other man) had decided to stop supplying the drug (affection, affirmation, perceived emotional connection etc.) to my wife. He has moved on to "work things out with his wife". How long before he decides he no longer wants to "work things out" and is ready to supply the "drug" again to my wife? I truly believe this will happen. Especially since there has been no consequences for this man. The question is when will it happen and where will my wife be mentally in any reconciliation process we undertake? 
The first text...my wife ignores...the second text she says "dont contact me anymore"...the 3rd text where he reminds her of what they use to "have"....she slightly waivers...the 4th text...."It will be ok if I meet him one final time to provide final closure to this issue.....I am a different person now".....they meet and he lays on hard the memories and details of their "connection" like the predator he is......."you know we are soul mates...your my angel...don't you remember the things you said to me about your husband???....he cant change."......she gives in...........there is only one way to possibly prevent this....complete transparency with all other aspects of her daily life that could lead to this type of situation......complete closure with this man.....complete total dedication to the process of reconciliation....belief on her part that her husband has the potential to fill this void better than any other man.......I can forgive perhaps but I need a fair shot.


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## Louise7

leo74 said:


> One...he was describing an action he undertook by seeing her profile picture...use your imagination....I wonder if he is still a "friend".


Why are you wondering if he is still a friend? Do you not know??? Can you not access her facebook? If not, why not?

As for the other man's wife... It turns out that at least 3 people knew about my ex's affair and nobody told me. Oh how I wish they had!

Telling the other man's wife is not revenge but an act of kindness. Print the emails, go to the house when you can be sure he isn't around and knock on the door. Hand her the emails, give her your phone number and leave. Yes your wife is going to be angry when she finds out. This is not your problem - it is hers.


----------



## leo74

I have confirmed she has not deleted this man's contact information...why?...she has "no concrete reason"....isnt it a reason enough that she carried on a 6 month affair with this man and she cant just "be friends" with him and be married to me at the same time?....."He was my friend first".....as this makes it ok???.....but what about the fact she indicated he searched the files of the place she volunteered at for her phone number (predator)...he called her....she even said she questioned the ethics of that....he handed her his number and said "call me"....that is a man in pursuit of a woman for sex.....thats not "he was my friend first"....this doesnt add up...the story is now slightly twisted.....she is not committed yet to a true reconciliation....she still has feelings for this man on some level....it only makes sense....it wasnt that long ago.....will I have a fair shot at this reconciliation?......as of right now I do not.....she is naive to think I will just trust her again because she has promised not to do it again......why doesnt she want to go above and beyond for me..for us??.....she says I am like Jekyll and Hyde.....the truth is I feel much more fear than anger..........deep deep fear.


----------



## alte Dame

She is too much in control of this situation. If she wants the M, she has to stop all contact and become completely transparent to you. 

In my opinion, you have assumed way too much responsibility for the problems here. You also sound like you are excusing her cheating - he's a predator, she gives in, etc. 

She's a grown woman who absolutely knows what she is doing. If you read some of the stomach-twisting cr*p written by people on cheaters' sites, you'll see how planned and cold some of this really is. They talk about laying low for a few months after a clueless spouse has found out & then restarting the A once the heat is off. The AP's are in touch and plan this.

Don't assume that your W is being hopelessly, naively drawn in by this guy.

If it were me, I would file for D to at the very least concentrate her mind. If she's too far gone, then you have to do it anyway.


----------



## Betrayedwife

Expose this. Otherwise it will be downplayed.


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## The Middleman

alte Dame said:


> Don't assume that your W is being hopelessly, naively drawn in by this guy.


:iagree:

An affair is a conscious decision. If you believe anything else then all you are doing is trying to rationalize her behavior.


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## bfree

A couple of pages back I said that I thought you got it. Was I wrong? Why are you letting her control things? It is inexcusable that she has any piece of him in her life. You should wash out her mouth just for daring to utter his name. If you believe she has absolutely no control over her behavior then why are you married to her. Is she a child? If so, have her committed and file for divorce. If she is an adult and worthy of being married to you then hold her accountable for her actions and make her face the consequences like an adult. Anything less and you have absolutely no integrity and don't deserve to be married either.


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## mahike

Leo I shared this with you the other day you must expose. She is still in the fog and the sunlight kills these things. This is one of those my way or the highway moments. You need to take action either way D or R.

Mr. Nice guy does not work with WS you are just percieved as a doormat


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## ArmyofJuan

"To save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it."


She is not going to just come around on her own, you have to motivate her to want to end the A and work on the M. You are right, as long as she has feelings for the OM (which she does) you have no M.

Tell her the M is over and she needs to start looking for a place to stay. You basically have to almost be a jerk to her now to show her you are not putting up with her crap and to take back control. YOU make the decisions now, not her. Waiting for her to come around is over, end the nonsense by ending the M. IF she is going to wake up and come to her senses it will be from you taking a stand and showing her the door.

She will hate it at first but by god(s) she will start to respect you for it.


----------



## Chaparral

*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.*


----------



## bfree

ArmyofJuan said:


> "To save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it."
> 
> 
> She is not going to just come around on her own, you have to motivate her to want to end the A and work on the M. You are right, as long as she has feelings for the OM (which she does) you have no M.
> 
> Tell her the M is over and she needs to start looking for a place to stay. *You basically have to almost be a jerk to her now to show her you are not putting up with her crap and to take back control. *YOU make the decisions now, not her. Waiting for her to come around is over, end the nonsense by ending the M. IF she is going to wake up and come to her senses it will be from you taking a stand and showing her the door.
> 
> She will hate it at first but by god(s) she will start to respect you for it.


Science has already confirmed chicks dig jerks.


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## walkonmars

Leo, you are being played. She is not into this reconciliation at all. I think that unlike most betrayed spouses that come to these boards, it's you that are living in a fantasy world and it's her that sees reality. 

You fantasize that she wants to be only with you.
She realizes that you are going to let her do "her thing" as long as she "says" the right things and nods her head in agreement as she walks out the back door. 

Wake up man.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

leo74 said:


> He has moved on to "work things out with his wife".


C'mon man, read that statement and apply _what you do know_. Stop being phucking niave Leo. 

That statement translated into the reality says... "I have another fledgling affair / target im shifting my focus to, I'll circle back later. In the meantime, here's a line to keep my good guy / fantasy soulmate image intact"

For god's sake.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

I just re-read my statement above.. I hope you understood what I meant... 

You want to hunt a predator, you would be wise to start thinking like one. 

Her AP is feeding her this "working out w/ wife" story when a much more realistic scenario is that he's got another fish on the hook but doesnt want to lose your wife as a backup. That or your wife started getting too risky and a bit to attached and he's managing her. Cooling her jets.

Sounds like you and her are both someone's plan B.

This is a messy situation your in and you don't have the luxury staying in this smog. You better take off the gloves and play hardball before it's too late. They aren't playing fair, and your going to keep getting owned if you don't snap outta this.


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## leo74

Thank you again for your comments however I believe my wife IS "into" this reconciliation. She has deleted this man's contact information on her own accord and has deleted the other perverted past "friends" on her FB account. Yes I have witnessed this in person. That is an important first step in "affair proofing" our marriage moving forward and hopefully someday regaining my trust. Unfortunately, I also adamantly believe as I have said in previous posts her affair partner WILL reach out to her again in an attempt to rekindle what they had. He will eventually want my beautiful wife for the sexual gratification he received because he will once again get sick of looking at his wife and living his life. As one of you eluded to he will attempt to drop a few texts in an attempt to remind her of his "good guy/fantasy soul-mate" image so that it remains intact. It may not be today, tomorrow or next week but it WILL happen and the only thing I can hope for is my wife has learned from her terrible mistake and will tell me immediately that it occurred like she has committed to do. In addition when attempt to contact happens, although the affair was never my fault, I have begun to fulfill her emotional needs so that her subconscious desire to act out in this chosen manner is no longer there. 
Some of you again will say I am naive to a certain extent, or I am "taking blame" for what has occured. There is much more to this story than I care to type or reveal in certain instances. Moving forward in this manner is the best decision for me and is what I want to do. 
No matter what happens I will have to live the rest of my life with the fact the mother of my child was capable of this. She inturn will have to live the rest her life with the decisions she made and I hope that she looks back at the act with utter disgust and embarrassment. Time will tell....Synchronicity.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

So your plan is to shower her with love, meet her needs and then hope? 

Alright, So be it.


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## mahike

leo we all with you the best. We have just seen the patterns of the WS repeated over and over. Best of luck with the R but stay on top of things, do not let down your guard


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## walkonmars

The heart wants what the heart wants. Yours, her's and his. Best wishes Leo.


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## leo74

No matter how much she goes out of her way to let me know what she is doing, where she is and whom she is with our lives inherently provide ample opportunity to live a second one. I could be laying in a bed right now next to another woman typing this reply and my wife would never know. She could be in the parking garage adjacent to her place of work in the back seat of an SUV with tinted windows continuing her affair. I would never know. An analogy in my terms would be...no matter how much security you install in a building if someone truly wants to break in they will find a way. In this case if the desire is there than you really cant stop it. The only hope (yes I said hope) is that there is no longer a desire and that which has occurred is an abberration. Perhaps a new life is reborn rising from the ashes of the old one of which we both played a part. 
If that doesnt occur...look at this way...all of you have a great thread to use as an example for future men/woman who find there way to this forum.


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## Shaggy

Leo exposing the affair is not revenge. It is a defensive measure to show the OM that there are toxic to him consequences for cheating with a married woman. It proves to him that further contact with your wife is not a good idea, not at all.

Put him on cheaterville.com. , exposé to his wife.

Your wife is paying you btw, and she's still primed for another affair. For your part, she's eventually doing things lik deleting the contact for her lover and you are taking that as a bug victory, while passively hoping for her to do more.

She's git all the control and you are pursuing a strategy of hope.

Hope isn't a strategy.


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## walkonmars

Leo, 
I truly wish you the very best. May your wife enrich your life, may you dwell in happiness, and may your troubles be few. 

But Leo, your messages have the ring of depression. Have you seen your doctor? Does he know the emotional turmoil you've been through? Give it a thought. Take care of you first.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

leo74 said:


> look at this way...all of you have a great thread to use as an example for future men/woman who find there way to this forum.


Thanks, but we already have hundreds. 

and just like you, the next betrayed spouse will also ignore them. 

Because they are different too.


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## leo74

Wow..thank you (in most cases)...I know most of you sincerely want to help....thats why I started this thread...but again...I cant type every thought, feeling, reaction, mood, explain all pre-existing conditions and events, failures successes etc. before, after and throughout the attempt at reconciliation. 
The truth is:
1 - I know I had nothing to do with her infidelity. She was high on the drug that was fed her, developed feelings and made a choice.
2 - I know she owns 50% of a broken marriage.
3 - I know I cant trust my wife right now.
4 - I do know its way too soon to forgive.
5 - I know that I now have to live with the fact she could easily do it again.
6 - I know that her affair partner walks these streets with no consequences for pursuing a married woman.
7 - I know that as it relates to the infidelity she should be doing everything in her power to "win me back" and show me she can be trusted again at the same time acknowledge failure in the 50% of our marriage she owns.
8 - I know that I was emotionally removed from her for many many years and I have to try to provide the things I didnt and do everything in my power to show that I acknowledge failure in the 50% of our marriage that I own.
9 - I know that I so desire a meaningful relationship with her at an emotional level.
10 - I know we have a young daughter for which we both owe an attempt at reconcilation if we both feel there is something there to reconcile.
11 - I know we have a LONG road ahead of us with odds that are NOT in our favor.
12 - I know I will never be the same person again and nor will she.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I dispise being cold and aggressively blunt with people that are hurting so badly. Most of us absolutely hate it. Ive been where you are, i feel for you. Genuinely. 

But this deja vu, groundhog day spew is even more frustrating. Your marraige has a chance, but passive isn't going to fix this Leo, its great you can wax poetic and get zen about the trials of life, love and the big picture... But, Im sorry dude It wont help you. At least not for long. Your marriage is in crisis and needs an action hero. Not the chanting buhda. 

Here's an exercise for you. 

Start by telling your wife that since this is a new start you want to clear the whole slate... and you haven't been perfect. Ask her if she would want to know if you had an affair too.? When she says yes. Say that you agree, You are a family, she is your wife. she would deserve to know. and that you haven't. but you think _the two of you_ should tell OM's W. She's a person, a wife, a mother and she deserves to know. 

See what happens.

I've said my piece brother. Honestly, I hope things work out.

Good luck.


----------



## mahike

Shaggy said:


> Leo exposing the affair is not revenge. It is a defensive measure to show the OM that there are toxic to him consequences for cheating with a married woman. It proves to him that further contact with your wife is not a good idea, not at all.
> 
> Put him on cheaterville.com. , exposé to his wife.
> 
> Your wife is paying you btw, and she's still primed for another affair. For your part, she's eventually doing things lik deleting the contact for her lover and you are taking that as a bug victory, while passively hoping for her to do more.
> 
> She's git all the control and you are pursuing a strategy of hope.
> 
> Hope isn't a strategy.


Exposing the A to daylight is the only way to stamp it out. A's cannot stand the sunlight.


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## leo74

It really bleeping hurts when you drive home and go by the location where your wife met with her affair partner countless times over a 6 month period. I was so bleeping clueless doing god knows what each time she was in the back of his SUV giving what he wanted in return for the bullXXXX perceived "emotional connection". She was so deceitful the gag reflex kicks in once again as I drive by but have to keep my composure since my daughter is in the backseat. I wonder who his new married victim will be this summer? Part of me wants to tell his wife not for her but for the next husband whose wife will end up giving into this XXXhole predator.
This is what is going through my mind.


----------



## walkonmars

leo74 said:


> It really bleeping hurts when you drive home and go by the location where your wife met with her affair partner countless times over a 6 month period. I was so bleeping clueless doing god knows what each time she was in the back of his SUV giving what he wanted in return for the bullXXXX perceived "emotional connection". She was so deceitful the gag reflex kicks in once again as I drive by but have to keep my composure since my daughter is in the backseat. *I wonder who his new married victim will be this summer? Part of me wants to tell his wife not for her but for the next husband whose wife will end up giving into this XXXhole predator.*
> This is what is going through my mind.


He will have to find a willing wife. 


Like yours


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## leo74

walkonmars said:


> He will have to find a willing wife.
> 
> 
> Like yours


Ouch... Truth hurts


----------



## tom67

leo74 said:


> Ouch... Truth hurts


Did you let the omw know yet?


----------



## idkwot2do

The OW deserves to know what has happend. Period.

I personally dont believe a marriage can really be saved after this has happend.

That is just my personal experience and opinon though.


----------



## MattMatt

The Middleman said:


> The wife needs to know, tell her.
> Revenge feels good. Tell her.
> What is your wife going to do to pay for her transgression? Or are,you going to let her get away with: "I'll be a good girl from now on"


Don't do it for revenge. Do it for the OM's wife. Just look at it as one victim of infidelity looking out for the interests of a fellow victim of infidelity.


----------



## MattMatt

idkwot2do said:


> The OW deserves to know what has happend. Period.
> 
> I personally dont believe a marriage can really be saved after this has happend.
> 
> That is just my personal experience and opinon though.


My view is that marriages can be saved after an affair.

After all, this section is called: "Coping With Infidelity" not "Divorce That Cheater, Now!"


----------



## Shaggy

Why are you refusing to tell his poor wife? You aren't dong her any favor by helping her husband lie and cheat on her.

Tell her.


----------



## leo74

I had some bad moments during the day Saturday, didnt think about it much on Sunday or during the day yesterday but last night the rush of pain and physical nausea set in again. I didnt sleep much. Im sure I will continue to repeat my thoughts on some of my replies but I cant help it as many of the initial thoughts persist and I am sure they will for a very long time. Deceitful, dishonarable to me and her daughter, selfishness, cowardeness come to mind as adjectives to describe her while she carried out this affair behind my back. I even had a dream that I suspected something during the affair and drove to their meeting location and caught them in the act. Where would we be if something like that happened I wonder? I know so many details that the vision of their acts together is sickening at times. Yet at other times they seem to not be prevelent. Healing? Even with all these thoughts I still somehow love this woman very deeply. WTF is wrong with me? Our 2nd counseling session is tomorrow the process of potential reconcilation continues. One day at a time.


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## ArmyofJuan

9 times out of 10 the BS is co-dependent (I just made that number up). Look into co-dependency and see if you fall into that category. If you work on that then dealing with your feelings will be much easier.


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## newlife94

leo74 said:


> I have confirmed she has not deleted this man's contact information...why?...she has "no concrete reason"....isnt it a reason enough that she carried on a 6 month affair with this man and she cant just "be friends" with him and be married to me at the same time?....."He was my friend first".....as this makes it ok???.....but what about the fact she indicated he searched the files of the place she volunteered at for her phone number (predator)...he called her....she even said she questioned the ethics of that....he handed her his number and said "call me"....that is a man in pursuit of a woman for sex.....thats not "he was my friend first"....this doesnt add up...the story is now slightly twisted.....she is not committed yet to a true reconciliation....she still has feelings for this man on some level....it only makes sense....it wasnt that long ago.....will I have a fair shot at this reconciliation?......as of right now I do not.....she is naive to think I will just trust her again because she has promised not to do it again......why doesnt she want to go above and beyond for me..for us??.....she says I am like Jekyll and Hyde.....the truth is I feel much more fear than anger..........deep deep fear.


SERIOUSLY!!! Exposure.... it has to happen. I did not take the advice of those here when I should have. It took me months to expose and I could have saved myself by just exposing sooner. Even my chaplain told me to call the POSOW family (she was divorced but her mother was in contact with my H)
EXPOSE!!!!


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## warlock07

leo74 said:


> Thank you for all of the advice. I have not made any final decision on telling the spouse due to mistakes I believe I made in the first 24-48 hours after I found out about my wife's infidelity. I think I would rather concentrate on any potential reconciliation then revenge or "justice" as some of you have stated. I think I will use the post to spill some of my thoughts in between as they are theraputic in a way. We have our first marriage counseling session tomorrow. She has agreed to attempt to reconcile. She has apologized in a sincere manner even taking responsibility for the affair. Acknowleding she should have "shaken" me until I understood what she was lacking instead of acting out the way she chose. I believe she wants to reconcile. I have concerns that she truly understands what it will take.
> 
> I never thought I would be in this position as one of the traits I thought I loved most about my wife was her "dedication and loyalty". What a fool I was. No one is ever safe. The 6 month affair was so emotional in her eyes and took place in such a deceitful and premeditated way through that period it makes me want to throw-up everytime I think about it. How was she capable of the utter disrespect for me as a human being much less her husband? The multiple "meetings" with her affair partner she fit in between her part time work and her responsibilities as a mother all the while I was working 50 hours a week to pay the bills and renovating our kitchen through the months of Sept., Oct and Nov. on weekends. Doing what I thought was my duty as the head of household. Providing the nicest "things" I could afford for my family. Putting the infidelity aside, that is certainly the main underlying issue related to our marriage. Those "things" are not what she wanted at all. She wanted simple non-material things that I woefully understimated as important. Those simple non-material things are painfully apparent now and I am ashamed of myself of how easy it probably was to avoid this acting out she chose. I am turning into a spiritual being I guess you would say. Things are not so black and white these past few days. There are other forces and energy here that will help me get through this I feel. However, no matter what...the path she chose is NOT my fault!
> 
> Again, I am comfortable the affair was over before I found out. She has indicated he was the one who ended it "to work things about between himself and his wife". What if I never found out? She was so emotionally connected to this guy from what I can tell. The funny thing is when I first found out I stated I was going to his house and after I left the room she warned him via text. She also has texted him on about something else I found on the internet that clearly indicates it was common knowledge in the community that this man had cheated on his wife before. I am not surprised about this 2nd text. What I found makes her think about how important she really was to this serial adulterer. The contact and connection is still there as I type. Gut wrenching. Does she really get it? I cant trust her anymore. Maybe some day. Certainly not even close yet.
> 
> I started to tell her the things that I would need to begin to regain trust and she almost acted surprised at some requests. As if "oh yeah"...there are consequences for what I have done If I make the choice to attempt to reconcile with my husband.
> She cant volunteer (as she has had for the pase 8 yrs) at the place she had originally met this man, she cant be a part of the other volunteer organization if he was going to be there, she couldnt play in that unisex softball league if he was going to be there, his number has to be deleted, the men who send her porographic texts on facebook (yes I found those too) have to "de-friended". Full transparancy which I have no problem with must be undertaken. I have nothing to hide. Is she ready for this? Does she get it? Does she really want to? She will have trouble living by "rules" and "lists". What choice do I have? Trust her not to do that anymore? Please. Based on what I have read on the subject, I seriously doubt the marriage counseler will not basically state the same exact things related to complete closure with the affair partner. Trust is earned and we must become "affair proof". After we are "affair proof", I begin my diligent effort on the non-material things she so desires. As a matter of fact I have already started that to a certain extent.
> I still love this woman somehow.....we begin our process tomorrow....



Did not read the complete thread but looks like she is "sacrificing" herself to save him. She is doing what you need so that you won't get angry and expose him...She is "saving" him from your wrath. The affair did not end. She is lying low at the moment. Remember, she cheated on you. Lying about it is no big deal!!


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## warlock07

leo74 said:


> No matter how much she goes out of her way to let me know what she is doing, where she is and whom she is with our lives inherently provide ample opportunity to live a second one. I could be laying in a bed right now next to another woman typing this reply and my wife would never know. She could be in the parking garage adjacent to her place of work in the back seat of an SUV with tinted windows continuing her affair. I would never know. An analogy in my terms would be...no matter how much security you install in a building if someone truly wants to break in they will find a way. In this case if the desire is there than you really cant stop it. The only hope (yes I said hope) is that there is no longer a desire and that which has occurred is an abberration. Perhaps a new life is reborn rising from the ashes of the old one of which we both played a part.
> If that doesnt occur...look at this way...all of you have a great thread to use as an example for future men/woman who find there way to this forum.


Maybe she will cheat again because she never had to find out what it would be like if you left her. She does not value what you provide anyway because you keep doing it... Why are you willing to settle for so little ? 

Just keep reading TAM for the next few months. Understand the most common patterms in these scenarios. As of right now, you are just wasting your time in limbo pining for a woman who doesn't even love you. SHe is probably reconciling out of guilt or sympathy..It won't last.


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## leo74

warlock07 said:


> Maybe she will cheat again because she never had to find out what it would be like if you left her. She does not value what you provide anyway because you keep doing it... Why are you willing to settle for so little ?
> 
> Just keep reading TAM for the next few months. Understand the most common patterms in these scenarios. As of right now, you are just wasting your time in limbo pining for a woman who doesn't even love you. SHe is probably reconciling out of guilt or sympathy..It won't last.


I cant deny that you may have some valid points. However, as I have said previous the affair has been over since early December and I am very confident of that for many reasons. I obviously dont know how things would have went down if she had to make a choice because I had caught her in the middle of the affair back in September/October. I never will. As indicated HE is the one who called it off. I believe that at least one of the reasons is my wife probably got too attached / too "emotional" with this man. Lost in the fantasy a bit. I think she attempted to get him involved with extra curricular activities that he wasnt truly interested in. Like a boyfriend almost it hurts to say. She got too close maybe and the periodic XXXXjobs were not worth the headache. I dont really know what he was thinking but I do know how a guy thinks. He realized their "relationship" was going no where and would cause him more harm than good in the long run. I also still believe he will remember the pleasure he received from her and will attempt contact sooner rather than later.


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## tom67

leo74 said:


> I cant deny that you may have some valid points. However, as I have said previous the affair has been over since early December and I am very confident of that for many reasons. I obviously dont know how things would have went down if she had to make a choice because I had caught her in the middle of the affair back in September/October. I never will. As indicated HE is the one who called it off. I believe that at least one of the reasons is my wife probably got too attached / too "emotional" with this man. Lost in the fantasy a bit. I think she attempted to get him involved with extra curricular activities that he wasnt truly interested in. Like a boyfriend almost it hurts to say. She got too close maybe and the periodic XXXXjobs were not worth the headache. I dont really know what he was thinking but I do know how a guy thinks. He realized their "relationship" was going no where and would cause him more harm than good in the long run. I also still believe he will remember the pleasure he received from her and will attempt contact sooner rather than later.


That's why you expose to make sure he doesn't contact her again but do what you want good luck with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## leo74

Through another thread I found and read the "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse..." PDF file. I was utterly amazed on how much of that 12 page document mirrored my thoughts and feelings over the last few weeks. I felt a sense of comfort and justification related to my thoughts and feelings as the one who was betrayed. I wish my wife had taken the time to seek this information out herself instead of me having to send it to her (which I did yesterday). I assume she has read it at this point but I have not mentioned it. We had our second couseling session yesterday and as it relates to our marriage we are doing very well. I believe alot of this has to do with the fact I had made some life changing decisions and find a more meaningful connection with my wife PRIOR to finding out about the affair. What I am not dealing so well with is the reality of the affair. As the document indicates I am a ping pong ball "back and forth". I think I used the analogy of a "roller coaster ride" in previous replies. I certainly used this statement with my wife and the marriage counseler. A period of time I feel OK and confident we are on the path of full reconciliation and next I picture my wife doing what I know she did with this man countless times over a 6 month period. It is so sickening. I also picture the fact that she was wearing her wedding rings doing this and then coming home to kiss her unsuspecting husband. I feel as if I will have to buy new rings for her some day as crazy as that sounds. I guess there are many "triggers" in and around me I have to learn to avoid as part of the R.
Almost as frustrating is the fact that she still thinks I should trust her. Again, I am 100% positive that affair is over but some of the "secret life" she has led for so many years still exists. The foundation to betray me again is still somewhat in place. She IS providing some effort to letting me know where she is and when but she hasnt completely bought into the transparancy concept and probably hopes I will let it go because of her promises directly to me in private and in the presence of the counseler. She lost her privileges of trust from me a long time ago. Words mean little as it relates to this. Actions are everything.

I am having another bad moment. I guess I have to get used to it.


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## walkonmars

Leo, my last post to you was to "wish you well". I did this when you stated that you were okay with everything. But your last few posts made me change my mind.

This will offend you but here it is anyway:

You somehow feel that because HE broke it off, it's kinda bad, but not as bad as what most here say. My friend IT IS BAD. That's why YOU are the one scurrying around looking for resources and presenting them to her. 

And you don't even know if she's reading them. The chances of her reading your resources are just as good as the chances of her staring at the page and occupying her mind with "what went wrong" with her affair partner. If you had blown up his little world she would be tightening her butt cheeks and hustling to find resources herself. But as it is, she still thinks of the affair as "kinda over - cause HE said it was - not because of YOU"

Good luck again Leo, I wish it was you that had cheated because you are doing all the work for what I can see.


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## warlock07

leo74 said:


> I cant deny that you may have some valid points. However, as I have said previous the affair has been over since early December and I am very confident of that for many reasons. I obviously dont know how things would have went down if she had to make a choice because I had caught her in the middle of the affair back in September/October. I never will. As indicated HE is the one who called it off. I believe that at least one of the reasons is my wife probably got too attached / too "emotional" with this man. Lost in the fantasy a bit. I think she attempted to get him involved with extra curricular activities that he wasnt truly interested in. Like a boyfriend almost it hurts to say. She got too close maybe and the periodic XXXXjobs were not worth the headache. I dont really know what he was thinking but I do know how a guy thinks. He realized their "relationship" was going no where and would cause him more harm than good in the long run. I also still believe he will remember the pleasure he received from her and will attempt contact sooner rather than later.


Her affair could have ended for many other reasons that have nothing to with you..Don't make it the single basis you are reconciling on.



> She still thinks I should trust her..


you did and what did she do? She will have to earn it back.


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## Shaggy

Leo, keep in mind that not only are you dealing with the reality that she chose willingly in the past to cheat, but you also have to deal with the issue of her choosing again to cheat in the future.

I do not get the feeling from your posts that she is at all remorseful.

Remorse changes a person permanently. It changes them inside dramatically into a new person who will never make the horrible choices they made before.

I don't get this from your posts. What I get s you wife negotiating the terms and acts she must perform for you to agree to forget the whole thing and return to the good old status quo.

The status quo included her choosing to cheat, and having opportunity and secrecy to do it.

The last thing you want is to return to the status quo.


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## leo74

warlock07 said:


> Her affair could have ended for many other reasons that have nothing to with you..Don't make it the single basis you are reconciling on.


I know I had nothing to do with her affair ending. It ended because of him and I eluded to why I think it occurred at least in part in previous posts. I can tell from the emails it appears maybe she was trying to turn this into a "real relationship" inviting him to extracurricular activities (not involving sex). He didn't really want that of course. I also do believe at this point she has questioned in her own mind this guys true intentions.

The cards have fallen where they are. The sequence of events have occurred as they have. Plan B = me certainly has crossed my mind.


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## leo74

I had another bad afternoon yesterday and on into the evening. I was reading my wife's tweets from the time that the affair began. Correlating exactly what was going on in our lives at the same time she was having an affair with the predator (the name I prefer) is extremely painful. The summer beach vacation week in July where the affair had just begun, our daughters birthday in August...living such a godXXXX lie...I feel like 6 mos of my life was taken from me......what will those months be like here in 2013? So many "triggers" I will have to deal with.
I guess I am at the stage where I am coming to grips with "this really happened to me". I think up until yesterday perhaps I was still in a stage of "disbelief". I cant change it, she cant change it....I have to learn to manage the many "triggers" that are around me. I have to learn that our old marriage is dead and we have begun a new one. Looking at what is in history will not help me steer into a new future.
I am feeling slightly better this morning. Lets see how the day goes.


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## Will_Kane

Adultery is tough to get over even when your cheater does everything you need and does it whole-heartedly.

I don't know how you get over it when they just want to rug-sweep it, think you should trust them immediately just because the affair has ended. If that's the case, it's like the cheater is not truly acknowledging the seriousness of what they've done. 

Is this where your wife is right now? Thinks you should just trust her completely as if she's the same loyal wife you thought she was a year ago?


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## leo74

Will_Kane said:


> Adultery is tough to get over even when your cheater does everything you need and does it whole-heartedly.
> 
> I don't know how you get over it when they just want to rug-sweep it, think you should trust them immediately just because the affair has ended. If that's the case, it's like the cheater is not truly acknowledging the seriousness of what they've done.
> 
> Is this where your wife is right now? Thinks you should just trust her completely as if she's the same loyal wife you thought she was a year ago?


You pretty much hit it on the nail. Last nights conversation on the details and her passionate reaction gives me hope she does understand the long term devastation that has been caused by her actions. I so DONT want to re-visit the details anymore. I just really want to move on also.


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## Chaparral

leo74 said:


> You pretty much hit it on the nail. Last nights conversation on the details and her passionate reaction gives me hope she does understand the long term devastation that has been caused by her actions. I so DONT want to re-visit the details anymore. I just really want to move on also.


Wel, unfortunately thats not going to happen. If you don't deal with this now it will blow up later.

Print this off and go over all of it with her. You should be able to tell where her head/heart is by her response.

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.*


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## leo74

Thanks...already saw that and provided it to her.


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## SomedayDig

All this and that and the other...

So, have you told the other man's wife, yet?


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## JCD

leo74 said:


> No matter how much she goes out of her way to let me know what she is doing, where she is and whom she is with *our lives inherently provide ample opportunity to live a second one. *.
> .
> 
> n this case if the desire is there than you really cant stop it. *The only hope (yes I said hope) is that there is no longer a desire and that which has occurred is an abberration. *Perhaps a new life is reborn rising from the ashes of the old one of which we both played a part.





leo74 said:


> I wonder who his new married victim will be this summer? Part of me wants to tell his wife not for her but for the next husband whose wife will end up giving into this XXXhole predator.
> This is what is going through my mind.






leo74 said:


> I cant deny that you may have some valid points. However, as I have said previous the affair has been over since early December and I am very confident of that for many reasons. I obviously dont know how things would have went down if she had to make a choice because I had caught her in the middle of the affair back in September/October. I never will. *As indicated HE is the one who called it off. I believe that at least one of the reasons is my wife probably got too attached / too "emotional" with this man.* Lost in the fantasy a bit. I think she attempted to get him involved with extra curricular activities that he wasnt truly interested in. Like a boyfriend almost it hurts to say. She got too close maybe and the periodic XXXXjobs were not worth the headache. I dont really know what he was thinking but I do know how a guy thinks. He realized their "relationship" was going no where and would cause him more harm than good in the long run. * I also still believe he will remember the pleasure he received from her and will attempt contact sooner rather than later*.


I start these threads with a sense of hope. That things go right. That there is justice and remorse and strength of character from both parties.

Do you know how often I am disappointed? X + 1.

Read the highlighted portions.

Let me summarize.

You can't guard her 24/7. True.

You have to HOPE she doesn't want to go back to him. Also true.

*SHE DID NOT BREAK UP WITH HIM!* She wanted more MORE *MORE*. She even hesitated and fought with you about deleting his information. What is that on distant hill?










You believe he will want another taste. Why not? It's free b-jobs. Who doesn't want them?

I'll tell you who doesn't want them...someone in pain. Someone who is afraid of loss. Someone with something to lose.

You KNOW he will, if not hop onto that funpark ride of your wife again, will go after someone else.


And...yet...you...do...nothing...

In one phone call, you could

-Protect that woman from an STD

-Double the number of eyes watching Prince Charming

-Put him on notice that he WILL suffer consequences if he tries to drink from that well again.

-Cause enough martial damage on his part that he will be FAR too busy to go chasing tail.

-Put your wife on notice that you are not a doormat...despite the Jimmy Choo marks on your head which she's left there. Passive much?

-Give you a feeling of justice being done.

-Spare the heart of some other poor doofus who hasn't had his wife 'fall victim to his charms...' Funny you can think about HIM but not about the POS' poor wife.

There is a downside. She will be FURIOUS! And that scares you. You think your marriage is so damaged, it might not recover.

Brother...it already has the band playing "Nearer My God, to Thee."

You have an very good sense of exactly what to do. Sell her wedding rings. PERFECT. Call the POS' wife. STELLAR! Reval to the volunteer agencies exactly what happened with that POS. BRILLIANT (You didn't suggest it, but I'll give you credit.)

MAKE YOUR WIFE DO IT! (I'm claiming credit for that one.) She should look that woman in the eye and tell her where and when it happened. She should give out texts. 

Do you think THAT is enough of a wake up call to see the mother of a child crying her eyes out? Do you think that doing that to another human being will be 'sexy' to her? No. She has had no idea of the consequences.

And frankly she's trapped. Since she's playing 'Little Miss Victim' here (the one who WOULDN'T quit...just a reminder), she is stuck with the chore of 'making things right.' After all, she SAYS she'll do ANYTHING to fix this...right? (except delete his information without a fight...oh...sorry)

So...while it MIGHT push her full speed to a divorce as she chases *a man who already left a trail of dust away from her...*it will certainly ruin the affair.

Unless this guy is Guido the Leg or Agent Havok, this is fear in inaction.

Think hard about this.


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## alte Dame

Your sense of self-preservation tells you to do different things at different stages of your grief over your W's infidelity.

For now, it's generating fear in you. The fear tells you that you can preserve yourself by not rocking the boat & therefore not contacting the OMW.

Once this kneejerk fear response subsides, though, your more long-term sense of self-preservation will kick in & you will be here telling people that you definitely should have followed the advice you were given. It will be saying that you should have stood up for yourself and declared unequivocally that you won't let your W call the shots on a reconciliation. You will see in retrospect that calling the OMW now and standing tough with your W not only preserves your self-respect, but offers you the best chance of getting through this.

It takes tremendous self-discipline and courage, though, to get past the fear you feel. You have to be tough and do what now feels counterintuitive. It works, though.


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## leo74

Thank you everyone again on your opinions and thoughts.
My thoughts today are concentrating on the future. We have had alot of positive aspects in our R over the last few weeks. I have even felt a sense of satisifaction that our therapist has acknowledged with her present that my continual thoughts and questions about the affair are all part of healing from the infidelity. However, I am extremely concerned and nervous how the month's of July through early December 2013 will be. There will be so many triggers. There has even been the suggestion that I volunteer (along with my wife) at the same event at which she met this man originally (he will most certainly will be there) this coming summer. I assume a way of showing unity and that the affair is over and this man is nothing anymore. I really want to blow-up at this suggestion honestly. There is absolutely no way in hell that I would not have at least words with this man if I saw him today or tomorrow for instance. I dont know how I will feel this summer but my reaction now is I have NO desire to even hear the name of the event much less be involved or want my wife involved ever again. Why should I be put in this position? This might be the only thing that I cannot do in support of R. This should be understandable and should be put in the past as many other things are in support of the R and the new "us". I honestly hope its not even mentioned and the event passes us by.
Another significant thing mentally for me is it appears my wife has the sense that this man had a better chance of being a "predator" as I like to call him versus the "nice guy/soulmate" she believed he was during the affair. I have explained my thoughts of how guys operate in a more direct and graphic depiction and the therapist in a slightly more indirect depiction. I should know as I am a guy and there was a point in my life that I too would tell a girl anything she wanted to hear to be get a XXXXjob or end up in bed. Some of us guys "grow up" and get married and stop doing things like that. Some guys DONT "grow up" but get married, end up hating their lives/wives and continue to pursue other woman. Predators. Seek out the weakness in their prey and use it to their advantage to "consume" their victim. I do acknowledge in the case of us humans the prey must be willing and my wife certainly was. The "predator" description seems to have resonated with her. This of course is promising as it relates to complete closure and learning from her mistake.
I do have the fortunate circumstance to be alone with my wife for entire week starting Saturday out of the country. A significant event in the early stages of our R.


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## SomedayDig

All this and that and the other...

So, have you told the other man's wife, yet?


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## Shaggy

By not telling the OMW you protect the predator, and you help your wife preserve her loyalty to him.


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## Jasel

As others have said you really need to tell the other man's wife (and have proof if you do). And don't tell your wife you are doing it either.


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## JCD

He's gone on vacation and is working hard to forget to tell the other man's wife.

And think hard about getting a new therapist. That event is a trigger for you. Who the HELL suggested you attend it? Was it your wife? Guess what? She gets to drop...whatever. Seriously? This takes any thought at all?


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## walkonmars

You've used the 'predator - prey' analogy. But don't dismiss the "Like-mined" mentality of affair partners. There's far more "like-minded" than prey among adults. The predator-prey analogy is very apt for teens or for feeble-minded folks.


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## warlock07

leo74 said:


> Thank you everyone again on your opinions and thoughts.
> My thoughts today are concentrating on the future. We have had alot of positive aspects in our R over the last few weeks. I have even felt a sense of satisifaction that our therapist has acknowledged with her present that my continual thoughts and questions about the affair are all part of healing from the infidelity. However, I am extremely concerned and nervous how the month's of July through early December 2013 will be. There will be so many triggers. There has even been the suggestion that I volunteer (along with my wife) at the same event at which she met this man originally (he will most certainly will be there) this coming summer. I assume a way of showing unity and that the affair is over and this man is nothing anymore. I really want to blow-up at this suggestion honestly. There is absolutely no way in hell that I would not have at least words with this man if I saw him today or tomorrow for instance. I dont know how I will feel this summer but my reaction now is I have NO desire to even hear the name of the event much less be involved or want my wife involved ever again. Why should I be put in this position? This might be the only thing that I cannot do in support of R. This should be understandable and should be put in the past as many other things are in support of the R and the new "us". I honestly hope its not even mentioned and the event passes us by.
> Another significant thing mentally for me is it appears my wife has the sense that this man had a better chance of being a "predator" as I like to call him versus the "nice guy/soulmate" she believed he was during the affair. I have explained my thoughts of how guys operate in a more direct and graphic depiction and the therapist in a slightly more indirect depiction. I should know as I am a guy and there was a point in my life that I too would tell a girl anything she wanted to hear to be get a XXXXjob or end up in bed. Some of us guys "grow up" and get married and stop doing things like that. Some guys DONT "grow up" but get married, end up hating their lives/wives and continue to pursue other woman. Predators. Seek out the weakness in their prey and use it to their advantage to "consume" their victim. I do acknowledge in the case of us humans the prey must be willing and my wife certainly was. The "predator" description seems to have resonated with her. This of course is promising as it relates to complete closure and learning from her mistake.
> I do have the fortunate circumstance to be alone with my wife for entire week starting Saturday out of the country. A significant event in the early stages of our R.



Your wife is a grown adult woman. Respect that fact!! You are enabling her behavior far too much. Maybe the view that she is manipulated by the OM makes it easier for you to reconcile but the truth is there to be seen and you need to accept it before you hope to reconcile with her. Else the pain will always be there eating you away from the inside. Remember, it was a long term affair(6 months), not a drunken one night stand and you had to catch her and you do not know the reasons why it actually ended.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Leo, I sure hope your wife does not cheat on you again but cheaters love cake eating and they can fall to easy temptation. Keep working hard because the path of R is never ending, its from here on out!


If you reconcile and live happily every after or so you think (I sure hope this doesn't happen to you) and when your wife cheats on you without you knowing, I sure HOPE that the OW's WIFE will discover this and CALL YOU AND EXPOSE TO YOU AND TELL YOU that her husband is screwing YOUR WIFE.


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## TDSC60

After all the analysis that Leo engages in and his attempts to ignore the "have you told OMW?" questions, I think he is afraid to contact OMW.

He knows his wife was planning a life with OM. Wanting OM to replace Leo more and more in her life.

He knows that OM broke it off. He knows that he (Leo) is now her Plan B and if OM had not ended it his situation would be a lot different.

He fears what will happen when OM tries to contact his wife again.

He will not expose to OMW because he fears that if he does so, OM will contact his wife, offer to commit 100% to her (which was what she wanted during the affair). Then his wife will be gone.

Leo - you cannot fully R while you have these feelings. You have to face your fears. You have to be willing to let your wife go if that is what she wants. 

Stop acting or refusing to act out of fear. I know you say you are in MC but I think maybe you need some IC without your wife envolved.


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## phillybeffandswiss

leo74 said:


> I had another bad afternoon yesterday and on into the evening. I was reading my wife's tweets from the time that the affair began. Correlating exactly what was going on in our lives at the same time she was having an affair with the predator (the name I prefer) is extremely painful. The summer beach vacation week in July where the affair had just begun, our daughters birthday in August...living such a godXXXX lie...I feel like 6 mos of my life was taken from me......what will those months be like here in 2013? So many "triggers" I will have to deal with.
> I guess I am at the stage where I am coming to grips with "this really happened to me". I think up until yesterday perhaps I was still in a stage of "disbelief". I cant change it, she cant change it....I have to learn to manage the many "triggers" that are around me. I have to learn that our old marriage is dead and we have begun a new one. Looking at what is in history will not help me steer into a new future.
> I am feeling slightly better this morning. Lets see how the day goes.


After reading your thread again, I think your wife is a predator as well. People are nice and call them cake eaters. It sounds nicer than calling your spouse a predator. She was on the prowl for a man that would look the other way when she cheats. Now, she wants a man, in her fog, that will fight for her in an aggressive manner.


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## tom67

TDSC60 said:


> After all the analysis that Leo engages in and his attempts to ignore the "have you told OMW?" questions, I think he is afraid to contact OMW.
> 
> He knows his wife was planning a life with OM. Wanting OM to replace Leo more and more in her life.
> 
> He knows that OM broke it off. He knows that he (Leo) is now her Plan B and if OM had not ended it his situation would be a lot different.
> 
> He fears what will happen when OM tries to contact his wife again.
> 
> He will not expose to OMW because he fears that if he does so, OM will contact his wife, offer to commit 100% to her (which was what she wanted during the affair). Then his wife will be gone.
> 
> Leo - you cannot fully R while you have these feelings. You have to face your fears. You have to be willing to let your wife go if that is what she wants.
> 
> Stop acting or refusing to act out of fear. I know you say you are in MC but I think maybe you need some IC without your wife envolved.


It may just happen if he does not contact the omw kind of a self fulfilling prophecy,sad.


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## leo74

TDSC60 said:


> After all the analysis that Leo engages in and his attempts to ignore the "have you told OMW?" questions, I think he is afraid to contact OMW.
> 
> He knows his wife was planning a life with OM. Wanting OM to replace Leo more and more in her life.
> 
> He knows that OM broke it off. He knows that he (Leo) is now her Plan B and if OM had not ended it his situation would be a lot different.
> 
> He fears what will happen when OM tries to contact his wife again.
> 
> He will not expose to OMW because he fears that if he does so, OM will contact his wife, offer to commit 100% to her (which was what she wanted during the affair). Then his wife will be gone..


I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


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## walkonmars

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks....
> *The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.*


That's not the issue. I believe everyone here WANTS to see you in a successful marriage. One with a SOLID foundation - not one built on sand because that one won't withstand the slightest tremor. 

To have the best chance at a solid foundation YOU have to prepare the proper "mix" and ensure it cures. Instead ~it looks like~ you are hastily trying to rebuild without ANY foundation. That's a recipe for disaster. 

Houses, like marriages - that are built on shaky foundations can last for a bit some for a brief while others for much longer - but the chances for a collapse are sooooo much greater. 

That's what posters are trying to tell you Leo. But you don't seem to listen.


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## JCD

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


This isn't second guessing.

We've already laid out the very important facts: if he said yes, she would have left you.

Now...if you read the PAGES AND PAGES of posts done by people just in your situation, you will read about many spouses falling into a false reconciliation: where the WW lies low while she waits for her lover to want her again....while she waits for her husband to forgive her again...while she waits for YOU, leo to become complacent again.

And it will be soon. This man is obviously very dissatisfied with his wife. He is seeking replacements, or at least supplements left and right. One day, he'll be horny and his latest playmate won't be available...and he knows the number of a girl who never turned him down...

More than that, what few experts there are on infidelity and repairing these situations all say that *you are doing the wrong thing!*

You know where she is mentally and emotionally. Now, it might be that she detatchs from the POS before they resume contact. Meanwhile you are walking on eggshells hoping that you don't upset her enough that she gallops back onto his c0ck.

That is a 'what if'...a plan of hope over experience.

I don't know her. I don't know you. I don't know slimewad. You might not be all that great a husband. This guy might be a CEO with a V frame and a 10" penis. She might be incredilby emotionally fragile and can't deal with the stress...*of handling something which is happening to someone she shouldn't be in contact with anyway...*

Oh...yeah...

Yes, this is a bit of forcing the issue...and you don't want to do that.

Who is this guy that you are so afraid of him? Is it your boss? Is it the Alpha Dog of your pack of friends? Is is some special forces guy?

I'm hoping it's a case of legitimate fear instead of mere cowardice in the face of confrontation.

I wish you the best though I don't foresee it.


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## phillybeffandswiss

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


Who said anything about analyzing? People are telling you not to be a rug sweeping doormat.


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## JCD

Let me add something hopeful. I shouldn't just be taking pot shots.

My wife and I ran into a rough patch. I was becoming a boring fellow. If I were a girl, I wouldn't date me either. Being nice or witty or funny isn't enough for most girls. What can you do?

So one of the things I did was take up some martial arts and exercise. I was a confrontation-phobe like yourself.

Something clicked rather quickly. I came to the understanding that while I might not win a fight, no one was walking away unscathed. No one was going to 'own' me anymore.

Now...I'm not as 'nice' (read wimpy) a guy anymore. If I want something, I try and get it. I still have my fears and doubts and misgivings...but I can't let that potential pain rob me of a present or a future. This has given me a visible confidence.

I am not telling you to take up a martial art. I AM saying that being confident enough to deal with 'harsh words' will give you a confidence which will show.

You are a man. You work. You can take care of yourself (not for preference, but still). If she leaves: the sky will not fall. Water will still taste as sweet. Don't be stupid, but have your boundaries and take the moral, necessary actions to put this to rest.

Otherwise, like Dracula, this guy or someone else will rise out of the grave and make the village idiot suffer again. Don't be that idiot.


----------



## Malaise

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


Should't you want to know what she would in that situation or do you want to always live wondering what she would do with the next guy?

Tell OMW. If that blows up OM's marriage and leaves him free to be with your W, don't you want to know what she'll do, and where you stand with her?

Because you will stand in the same place when the next guy shows up. 

If she rejects him to be with you, good. If she chooses him, what did you lose but uncertainty?


----------



## sandc

Leo,
There are 8 pages of this thread stretching back to mid January. Everyone has said to contact the OMW. You seem to just want to analyze the situation over and over again. It's analysis paralysis. I've seen this in several other threads. What are you expecting us to do for you?

So, two suggestions: Tell the OMW. And for Pete's sake tell the volunteer organization where this happened. This man violated ethics by searching files to find your wife's number. Are you going to let him prey on other men's wives too? If so you're enabling him to do so. If I missed something I apologize.

I truly do wish you the best.


----------



## Malaise

sandc said:


> Leo,
> There are 8 pages of this thread stretching back to mid January. Everyone has said to contact the OMW. You seem to just want to analyze the situation over and over again. It's analysis paralysis. I've seen this in several other threads. What are you expecting us to do for you?
> 
> So, two suggestions: *Tell the OMW. And for Pete's sake tell the volunteer organization where this happened. This man violated ethics by searching files to find your wife's number. Are you going to let him prey on other men's wives too? If so you're enabling him to do so*. If I missed something I apologize.
> 
> I truly do wish you the best.


:iagree:


----------



## JCD

sandc said:


> Leo,
> There are 8 pages of this thread stretching back to mid January. Everyone has said to contact the OMW. You seem to just want to analyze the situation over and over again. It's analysis paralysis. I've seen this in several other threads. What are you expecting us to do for you?


I disagree. He is not in analysis paralysis..at least I don't think so.

He hopes that this man will get back to his wife and sin no more. So all he would be doing is bringing unnecessary pain...and an added risk. If she chucks his slimey ass out, he might come for OP's wife.

If he outs to the volunteer organization, it will personally embarass him and hurt his wife. She might be thrown out...and the slimewad might make a stink, creating more bad press. Plus slimewad might actually try for some revenge like hurting him...or screwing his wife some more...and he is already 'safely' gone (I cannot put enough quotes around that word, so two will have to suffice)

He thinks his wife doesn't like him particularly much. (I wonder why...) So he does not want to 'hurt' his reputation with her further, making R more difficult.


I shall leave aside the fear of confrontation.

It seems rational. But it doesn't work usually, if at all.


----------



## AlphaHalf

There are now 3 accomplices in the affair. "The Predator" OM, "The More Then Willing Prey" Your Wife, and now "The Enabler" You. 

As a betrayed spouse, why would you not tell the OMW the truth about the affair?????? If the roles where reversed, wouldn't you want the OMW to tell you the TRUTH if she found out first? Tell the OMW the TRUTH about her "Predator" husband and allow her to protect herself as she sees fit.

The "Predator" had your wife anyway he wanted, keeps his "Happy" marriage unscathed, and is allowed free reign to continue his ways with any other women willing to fall for his charms.  Its ironic that the person to become his biggest ally is the husband of the wife he took. Expose the Man.

Affairs thrive in secrecy.


----------



## bfree

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


Leo,

Are you a psychologist? Are you a relationship expert? How many instances of adultery have you dealt with? What makes you believe that you know more than Dr. Willard Harley. What makes you believe you know better than Dr. James Dobson? What makes you feel more informed than Gary Johnson, Shirley Glass, Dr. John Gottman, Dr. Gary Smalley or any of the other men and women who have researched, counseled and dealt with infidelity directly? What gives you the confidence to handle this situation more than any of the hundreds of men and women who routinely advise people on TAM that have been betrayed by their spouse? Everyone knows what works and what does not. There is no *WHAT IF!* If you follow the advice given here and echoed by the hundreds of authors dedicated to the saving and thriving of marriages you may be able to save your marriage and build a relationship that will thrive. If you ignore this advice you will lose your wife, your marriage, your family and your current life. There is no *what if*, only *what will* or *what will not* happen depending on your actions.


----------



## SomedayDig

leo74 said:


> I would be lying if I said some of these thoughts didn't cross my mind in the past few weeks. However, I can't go on continuing to analyze "what if"? "What if" I didn't meet her 12 yrs ago? "What if" I was smarter to check her email / texts sooner? "What if" the affair wasn't over when I confronted her? The fact is reality "is what it is" and I'm living it right now.


This is a "great" paragraph...

But have you told the OMW, yet?


----------



## committedwife

leo74 said:


> However, as I have said previous the affair has been over since early December and I am very confident of that for many reasons.


Could you tell us, please, exactly what those reasons are? 



leo74 said:


> As indicated HE is the one who called it off.


 As far as you know. From what your wayward told you. Waywards are notorious liars, did you know that?



leo74 said:


> I also still believe he will remember the pleasure he received from her and will attempt contact sooner rather than later.


 Then why aren't you doing anything concrete to protect your marriage??

Recovery is a very difficult road that isn't for the faint of heart, my friend. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do. But I'm seeing nothing here, so far, that indicates you are doing anything to actually recover.

At minimum, consider these building blocks for recovery:

1. No Contact letter, hand-written by her, proof-read and sent to OM by you.

2. For the love of God, man - expose this to his wife! As a betrayed wife, I can tell you that exposure to the spouse is absolutely the most important step you can take to prevent a resumption of the affair. 

3. She needs to change her email address and cell phone number.

4. I don't do FaceBook, and I'm making it through life just fine without it. Consider having her delete her FB account. Don't just 'suspend' it - that can be undone in seconds. If you can't bring yourself to have this as a requirement for allowing her to remain in the marriage, insist on a joint account, with a profile picture of the two of you in a loving embrace. 

5. Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. Use this as your handbook for recovery. 

It sounds to me like you're taking no pro-active steps to kill this affair. The chance is very good that it will re-ignite, especially by leaving OMW in the dark. I am alarmed at your laissez-faire attitude by throwing up your hands and saying words to the effect of "What can I do - they'll find a way if they really want to." These are not the words of an Alpha Male who is willing to do what it takes to save his marriage, sir.


----------



## walkonmars

I think Leo is afraid/knows the affair will resume. When it does he wants to put the blame on his wife for not being strong enough to remain in the marriage. Of course, it will be true - it's her fault along with OM. 

But he probably thinks that it will reflect on him if he tries to initiate those things that appear counter intuitive, and that he will be blamed for 'driving' her away with rules and edicts. 
Is this it Leo?


----------



## jfv

Leo your getting great advice, there is really nothing for me to add but i do have a question.
Why will it be that easy for the OM to contact your wife? 
Has she blocked him from Facebook?
Has she changed her phone number? 
Maybe you should take her phone and text him and let him know that the number he has is for YOUR phone now and unless he wants to talk to you he should probably lose it. 
Anyway, I hope you keep posting. 

PS. Tell the OMW. Part of the foundation for R is killing the affair dead. Exposure to his spouse is part of this. The foundation you are attempting to build on is weak. This is part of why you are struggling so much.


----------



## TDSC60

Leo is a deer caught in the headlights and the car is coming faster and faster. Impact is imminent and unavoidable.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Exactly! I'd want to know, especially after someone reminded me of what you deal with while you remain clueless.


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## leo74

To answer the lingering question...NO I have not told the other man's wife yet....I do have concern that there is no direct evidence from the other man to my wife...I have one email from my wife to him trying to set up a rendevous on one particular day for which he didnt reply (or he replied via Text etc.) and another email that my wife sent to him in which she copied a post she had made on a forum she belongs to about their relationship. Again he didnt reply or the reply was deleted. THIS particular email is the one that provides the most insight to my wife's perceived emotional attachment to this man. His email address is clear as day in both of these emails of course. I also have typed out a bullet point list explaining my knowledge of the affair details and addressed it to his wife by full name. My current plan is to attach the two (2) emails that I have to this bullet point list and hand deliver them in a sealed envelope to the other man's wife. I know exactly where she works and it should be fairly easy to deliver this envelope to her directly.


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## sandc

When do you plan to deliver to her your evidence?


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## bfree

leo74 said:


> To answer the lingering question...NO I have not told the other man's wife yet....I do have concern that there is no direct evidence from the other man to my wife...I have one email from my wife to him trying to set up a rendevous on one particular day for which he didnt reply (or he replied via Text etc.) and another email that my wife sent to him in which she copied a post she had made on a forum she belongs to about their relationship. Again he didnt reply or the reply was deleted. THIS particular email is the one that provides the most insight to my wife's perceived emotional attachment to this man. His email address is clear as day in both of these emails of course. I also have typed out a bullet point list explaining my knowledge of the affair details and addressed it to his wife by full name. My current plan is to attach the two (2) emails that I have to this bullet point list and hand deliver them in a sealed envelope to the other man's wife. I know exactly where she works and it should be fairly easy to deliver this envelope to her directly.


What are you waiting for?


----------



## leo74

sandc said:


> When do you plan to deliver to her your evidence?


This week. Maybe as soon as tomorrow.


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## bfree

leo74 said:


> This week. Maybe as soon as tomorrow.


Maybe? Why not today? You keep putting this off. Stop. Just do it.


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## leo74

bfree said:


> What are you waiting for?


Thoughts on emailing it as a PDF? She works for a local municipality and her email address was easy to find.


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## TDSC60

leo74 said:


> Thoughts on emailing it as a PDF? She works for a local municipality and her email address was easy to find.


Not all local gov computers are set up to read or open a PDF file. It might not even make it through their virus/spam filter.

Have it hand delivered or better yet, take it to her yourself and ask her if she knew about the affair.


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## leo74

TDSC60 said:


> Not all local gov computers are set up to read or open a PDF file. It might not even make it through their virus/spam filter.
> 
> Have it hand delivered or better yet, take it to her yourself and ask her if she knew about the affair.


Good point but I have done business with other City employees in which I have forwarded PDF files without issue. No question the better way would be to hand deliver it.


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## Malaise

TDSC60 said:


> Not all local gov computers are set up to read or open a PDF file. It might not even make it through their virus/spam filter.
> 
> Have it hand delivered or better yet, *take it to her yourself and ask her if she knew about the affair*.


:iagree:

That way any questions can be answered right away, by both of you .

She may have info you lack.


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## bfree

leo74 said:


> Good point but I have done business with other City employees in which I have forwarded PDF files without issue. No question the better way would be to hand deliver it.


Then put on your shoes and get it to her now.


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## leo74

bfree said:


> Then put on your shoes and get it to her now.


As soon as tomorrow as it is now compiled and ready to present.......we are trying to recover here in New England from recent weather.


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## leo74

It is done.

It could not have gone more smoothly in my wildest dreams. I of course confirmed I had the right woman and then I suggested we meet in a conference room if it were available and she didnt hesitate. Almost as if she knew what was coming and was "prepared" for it to happen again to her. I handed her the envelope and she opened and read my facts about the affair and then reviewed the two emails. I pointed out certain things in the emails so she could understand them better. She was very calm through the approx. 10 minutes I sat there. There was a slight tremble and deep breath as she read certain things. The same from me of course as I explained certain things. The most prominent thing I said to her was that "I was sorry I had to do this but my wife is paying the consequences for what has occurred and now your husband should". She thanked me I think twice and showed no agression whatsoever. Again, almost like "im not surprised there were others".

My feelings now are not related to "revenge" but rather I feel a strong sense of closure and peace. If nothing else, I feel that I did the right thing by telling this woman so she can move on with her life making an educated decision about a future with this man.

This affair is now fully exposed to the people directly involved. The cards will now truly fall where they will.


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## sandc

:yay: :toast: Well done.


----------



## Shaggy

Very well done.


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## bfree

I knew you had it in you leo. Now you can see where the chips fall and make decisions accordingly.


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## Acabado

Well done.
Positive vibes your way.


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## hopefulgirl

The right thing to do. Who knows how many people that guy has sex with at any given period of time? His wife, and you (if you haven't already) and your wife should get tested for STD's. But his wife didn't know about the current risk that she faced, until you stepped up and did the right thing.


----------



## leo74

57 days since I first learned I had become another statistic. 57 days since I first learned my wife had it in her to bestow upon me the ultimate in humiliation and disrespect. I can hardly believe that I have come this far as I still love this woman dearly. My thoughts as of late and really since I told the OW have been less on the physical acts but more on the betrayal. That is still the gut wrenching part at times. I am married to a woman who was capable of this and is capable of doing it again. It has been really difficult constantly wondering if she is really telling the truth on where she is throughout the day. Although I do believe that she has been since I found out about the affair. Transparancy is becoming the motto in our lives and she attempts to constantly tell me where she is and what she is doing. The problem is as many of you know you cant control your wandering mind as the betrayed spouse. I think she must have some realization that even though she did what she did there have been very little consequences for her. She has kept her family. She has kept her husband who certainly is a changed man forever. Why do I feel like I have been an accomplice to the "rug sweeping" at times? We really are progressing pretty well in the R. It is so early.....yet I feel I am forgiving already? How could I? It certainly must say a bit about me as a person and that I am able to come to terms with the physical acts during the infidelity. I am perhaps making a choice I dont fully comprehend at times. A choice to heal and move on versus dwell on the past. No matter what, I feel that I will need to watch her like a hawk for a very long time.


----------



## walkonmars

You will have many moments of doubt. That's okay. You are wise to be wary but not to the point of paranoia. Continue with your MC. And schedule some IC for both of you. Keep your health up and concentrate on the positives. You can't be a parole officer forever.

You should also let the volunteer organization know of how the OM came to obtain your wife's contactvinformation. They have a right to know when their charitable work is being used as a hunting ground.


----------



## leo74

It's funny you say that. She obtained the information of the director to inform her how the OM contacted her originally. She said she felt it was the only way to prove her loyalty to me and not to him. I was taken aback a bit but was almost excited she said that. It is not done yet....I hope she does it.


----------



## sandc

What's she waiting for?


----------



## lordmayhem

leo74,

Just bear in mind that you're still very early into the R process, not even 60 days out from DDay. You will be reaching the anger stage sooner or later, then comes the depression stage. It seems that you're just beginning to feel it when you wonder why you're with her and feel she has suffered little to no consequences while you suffered the devastation and agony of betrayal. 

If she's truly remorseful, she will be empathetic to your feelings of anger and depression, remember that. R is NOT an easy path. If you begin to get the "get over it already" and avoidance of the issue from her, that will give you an indication of False R. She should be comforting you when you trigger, and you will trigger for a long time to come. 

It takes on average between 2-5 years to recover from a betrayal of this magnitude. Its not easy, and its very difficult for anyone, including a WS to remain patient and remorseful constantly. Its not an easy process, thus the bumps along the way.


----------



## leo74

Thanks Lordmayhem for the response.

To all....why am I dreading seeing my wife's friends/family that know she cheated on me? My wife indicated today that her parents wanted to get together with us and our daughter as she nor our daughter has seen them in a while. I havent seen them since Christmas which of course is before "D" day as I guess we call it here on TAM. As soon as she told me that in our telephone conversation this morning I had the "puke in my mouth" feeling. She sensed the hesitation. She did show some empathy and we agreed to talk about it later as I didnt even expect that reaction in myself necessarily. I assume it has to do with a sense of weakness, shame, embarassment and humiliation that I feel for what she did to me. Again, this wasnt "I got drunk and kissed somebody....Im sorry I bleeped up" it was "Ive known a guy for 8 years and this past year I was an active participant in a 6 month deeply emotional and physical affair behind your back while you were working your ass off...providing a roof over our heads and food on the table." Both bad for a marriage but one much much worse obviously! Its like Im scared to see these people that know what I am trying to forgive?


----------



## sandc

These are the people that raised your wife. Maybe you feel some unconscious anger towards them?


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## bfree

sandc said:


> These are the people that raised your wife. Maybe you feel some unconscious anger towards them?


That was my first thought as well.


----------



## alte Dame

This is family and family is intimate. Your marriage is intimate. Your W betrayed your intimacy. It's a worse feeling somehow to face the people closest to us, the people most intimate to us.

The thing is, Leo, your reaction is natural, but it's not right. You feel shame and humiliation, but nobody looks at YOU that way. They look at her as the one who has shamed and humiliated herself. It really isn't you they feel that way about. People respect you for standing up and they ratchet down their respect for her for how she cheapened herself and her marriage.


----------



## bfree

I agree. Leo has nothing to be humiliated about.


----------



## sandc

bfree said:


> I agree. Leo has nothing to be humiliated about.


:iagree: Me three.


----------



## sandc

Leo, you shouldn't let what you perceive as your shortcomings as a husband be the larger issue here. The larger issue is she cheated. She had several choices before her, including communicating her displeasure with the marriage or you, and even separation and divorce. She chose to cheat. Whatever you did is not somehow worse than this. And whatever you did was not the cause of this. She owns it. Let her.


----------



## leo74

She did communicate displeasure periodically throughout the years. I did a terrible job of recognizing how important the things I wasnt giving her were as compared to what I thought I should be concentrating on as the "head of the household". Again, not an excuse for what she did to me by any means. I recognized that we didnt have a very good relationship for quite some time. I just somehow didnt realize it was in a state in her mind that she could act out in this way. Again, if you asked me a year ago about what I loved most about my wife I certainly would have replied with "Trustworthy and loyal" among other things. Comical now isnt it?
There may be something to the comment regarding a sense of anger toward her parents I must admit. However, I dont feel I hate them as I think all and all they are good people and have been nothing but nice to me since the day I met them. There are so many thoughts that resonate but no one thought that is of a higher percentage than the other for "why". The thought of no consequences for what she has done keeps popping up....but I acknowledge I dont know what "consequences" I would expect her to have? She stated one of her consequences is she has to look in the mirror each day at a person who betrayed her husband....I guess this is along the thought line that she "owns" what she did...I didnt ask for it. The other consequence is that she will never set foot at the volunteer event ever again regardless if the OM is there or not. This was something she truly loved to do and not just because of the OM this past year. That yearly volunteer event is a breeding ground for infidelity and I could never trust her there again. I certainly cant trust the other married men there. Do you believe she actually came home 2 summers ago from an after-party at the event and thanked me for being the husband that I was? She said something to the point that there were so many married men drinking and hitting on woman there and she knew I wouldnt do that. I thought I knew my wife. I was so confident in her being loyal to me. What a bleeping idiot huh? Anyway..I am getting off on a tangent again.
Maybe I get a little affraid that things are moving too fast and just hanging out with her parents and eventually some friends this soon make things look like they didnt happen when it was only about 60 days ago I was listing our assets for a mediation divorce. A willing accomplice in the "rug sweeping". I guess I need to get that term out of my head and change it to forgiving. I will be much better off.


----------



## the guy

You mentioned consequences, have you spanked her? I mean giving her a spanking and the degree of submission she offers her husband to do such a thing to her can help...it did in my case.

Sure this is thinking out side the box, and ya this may not be your thing, but sometimes just an old fashion/over the knee spanking can take the edge off...for both of you? 

When I spanked my wife after confronting her about her affair's it showed me the degree of submission she was willing to go through to keep her marriage after the things she had done.

Granted we are wired alot different then most, but sometimes its that little twist that needs to take place to...not bring back what was, but bring in new things into the marriage.

Again one of many consequences she would need to face. Actually the spanking was alot easier to take then the lack of privacy and the accountablity my FWW now has to endoure to stay around.


----------



## karole

Guy, you actually spanked your wife - as in a disciplinary act?


----------



## 3putt

karole said:


> Guy, you actually spanked your wife - as in a disciplinary act?


Draws one helluva mental image, huh?


----------



## the guy

karole said:


> Guy, you actually spanked your wife - as in a disciplinary act?


Yes and no, it started out not wanting to throw her across the room, it ended up with her jeans and panties around her knees and then the HB began.

Dealing with my FWW period, is a disciplinary action. LOL

And she loves it!


----------



## the guy

On a side note, actually dealing with wife is a far cry from not dealing with her after almost being married...well having a marriage certificate for 23 years.


----------



## JCD

karole said:


> Guy, you actually spanked your wife - as in a disciplinary act?


Why is this so hard to believe?

People who commit wrongs and are given grace cheaply frequently live with a burden of guilt because they 'got away with it'. They know they sinned. They wronged their internal moral compass and know they need to pay.

So...penance. PAYING for their sins in a real manner. 

Pain can be cleansing. Ask any runner or weight lifter.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to build your self confidence back up, start here if you haven't already: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

And read this:

_Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!_

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, thread search did not turn up anything though that is not surprising. Let me know if you want it deleted. 

Good luck
Chap


----------



## the guy

JCD said:


> Why is this so hard to believe?
> 
> People who commit wrongs and are given grace cheaply frequently live with a burden of guilt because they 'got away with it'. They know they sinned. They wronged their internal moral compass and know they need to pay.
> 
> So...penance. PAYING for their sins in a real manner.
> 
> Pain can be cleansing. Ask any runner or weight lifter.


You know the old saying " it hurts me more then it hurts you" well when it comes to owning the fact that I am a wife beater and even though my physical abuse had some part in my old lady cheating. I think the consequences she faced getting spanked was more her own benifit by the way she responded, as far as cleansing goes. I think my FWW was hurt more then I was, the fact was I enjoyed my self but in the same breath the cleansing JCD mentions had to of had some effect.

Granted the reality is I wanted to go back to my old ways, but during the confrontation....I think it was out of control for both of us. I was calm and she was brutally honest, but it ended up the way it ended up.


----------



## leo74

With all due respect....I would appreciate not hijacking my topic with this sub-topic for the S & M forum


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## leo74

sandc said:


> What's she waiting for?


She still hasnt done it yet to my knowledge......but I will give her the benefit of the doubt as she has been very busy through last week working...it certainly takes a clear mind to move forward with an action like that....there is also a strategic way to present it w/o completely looking like a scorned lover to the director of the event......we will see what happens this week since she is working very little...I sincerely hope she does it soon.


----------



## warlock07

False R, False R


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

leo74 said:


> She still hasnt done it yet to my knowledge......but I will give her the benefit of the doubt as she has been very busy through last week working...it certainly takes a clear mind to move forward with an action like that....there is also a strategic way to present it w/o completely looking like a scorned lover to the director of the event......we will see what happens this week since she is working very little...I sincerely hope she does it soon.


Quit gaslighting yourself! Basically, what I just read, her career is more important than your marriage. Oh and that you accept that as a fact.


----------



## leo74

I had stopped home for lunch today because its on a way to a meeting I need to go to periodically. I decided to peruse her iPad and noticed a new message on her Facebook page from a girlfriend who knew my wife had an affair. The new message was nothing of significance but I noticed that the text message chain went back to and through the time of the affair. There were 3 messages from my wife to her in this chain from late September. The messages on 9/21/12 indicated something like "My man just left for a 3 week business trip to Las Vegas etc. etc." with a text "sad face" Followed by a separate picture of the sky outside of our house showing a smoke streak left by a passenger jet followed by a statement something like "We live in the Southwest Airlines Flight Path". Needless to say *I* didnt take a 3 week trip to Las Vegas and needless to say my emotions and thoughts came rushing back like a passenger jet crashing into my heart. I wanted to puke. Holy double life. I also looked at my Outlook Calendar to see what was going on in the life I was involved with around that time. As expected, knee deep in our kitchen renovation. I was so distracted during this period. Anyway....she had ran up stairs to take a shower so I had a few minutes to compose myself before I read the texts out loud to her....needless to say we had a conversation about our R. I admit there was nothing new here but the fact that I hadnt seen these exact words before was almost as devastating as the first time I found out. It just brought everything back again on how emotionally connected she was to this guy such a short time ago. I really wanted to go upstairs and curl up in a fetal position in the corner of our spare bedroom. If I was so terrible why the bleep didnt she just leave and divorce me? 
I also cant help but smile a bit at the subject of three (3) weeks in Las Vegas for the bleeping predator. Isnt prostitution legal in Vegas? My god he must have had a field day out there in between business meetings. Then after 3 weeks of *****s and strippers in Vegas im sure he immediately met my wife again and waxed poetic/"I missed you" and got another bleepjob. Except this time it didnt cost him any money like the 10 he got the 3 weeks he was in Vegas. What a life! Its funny as I have said in the past.....I feel sorry for her because she was so naive. Anyway...I will get over this little detour down memory lane today and get back on track with our R.

Thanks for reading my posts and continued support!


----------



## tom67

Be glad that you told his wife as I'm sure she will be keeping an eye on him now. Just think what could be if you didn't expose.


----------



## Chaparral

leo74 said:


> I had stopped home for lunch today because its on a way to a meeting I need to go to periodically. I decided to peruse her iPad and noticed a new message on her Facebook page from a girlfriend who knew my wife had an affair. The new message was nothing of significance but I noticed that the text message chain went back to and through the time of the affair. There were 3 messages from my wife to her in this chain from late September. The messages on 9/21/12 indicated something like "My man just left for a 3 week business trip to Las Vegas etc. etc." with a text "sad face" Followed by a separate picture of the sky outside of our house showing a smoke streak left by a passenger jet followed by a statement something like "We live in the Southwest Airlines Flight Path". Needless to say *I* didnt take a 3 week trip to Las Vegas and needless to say my emotions and thoughts came rushing back like a passenger jet crashing into my heart. I wanted to puke. Holy double life. I also looked at my Outlook Calendar to see what was going on in the life I was involved with around that time. As expected, knee deep in our kitchen renovation. I was so distracted during this period. Anyway....she had ran up stairs to take a shower so I had a few minutes to compose myself before I read the texts out loud to her....needless to say we had a conversation about our R. I admit there was nothing new here but the fact that I hadnt seen these exact words before was almost as devastating as the first time I found out. It just brought everything back again on how emotionally connected she was to this guy such a short time ago. I really wanted to go upstairs and curl up in a fetal position in the corner of our spare bedroom. If I was so terrible why the bleep didnt she just leave and divorce me?
> I also cant help but smile a bit at the subject of three (3) weeks in Las Vegas for the bleeping predator. Isnt prostitution legal in Vegas? My god he must have had a field day out there in between business meetings. Then after 3 weeks of *****s and strippers in Vegas im sure he immediately met my wife again and waxed poetic/"I missed you" and got another bleepjob. Except this time it didnt cost him any money like the 10 he got the 3 weeks he was in Vegas. What a life! Its funny as I have said in the past.....I feel sorry for her because she was so naive. Anyway...I will get over this little detour down memory lane today and get back on track with our R.
> 
> Thanks for reading my posts and continued support!


Can't remember if you got a STD test or not. No matter, I would tell her since her boyfriend was in Vegas three weeks, I'm going to get another STD test to be sure.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read MMSLP yet? From what you are accepting, I'm guessing not.


----------



## Acabado

Sorry you went back to "that place" with those texts. How did she react to it, to your pain?


leo74 said:


> If I was so terrible why the bleep didnt she just leave and divorce me?


What's more terrible is the fact you were not that terrible at all. The same aplies to the marriage. That's why she didn't divorce you.
It's about cake. Extra cake.


----------



## warlock07

How is she reacting now? I still think you haven't grasped the extent of betrayal that went on. And after all this, the OM was the one that dumped her. Take your time making you decision. 

You are setting up yourself for more pain if you are not careful about the whole thing


----------



## warlock07

And maybe now may be a good time to go through all her messages on Facebook. And why is she still friends with this woman who helped with her affair?


----------



## leo74

Already been through her Facebook account top to bottom. It's also not reality to think a woman's friends won't support her even if she is committing the most immoral act against her husband and family.


----------



## Malaise

leo74 said:


> Already been through her Facebook account top to bottom. It's also not reality to think a woman's friends won't support her even if she is committing the most immoral act against her husband and family.


What Warlock is saying is that your W, on her own, should have broken all ties with anyone who enabled the affair, as a sign of her earnestness. That she hasn't done so says, perhaps, that she is not all in on R.


----------



## leo74

While the affair was going on this friend might have been the only one who knew. She also lives half way across the country and hasn't seen her in years. I don't understand the point of proving she is into the "R" by discarding her friends. In my mind it is not necessary. Now, if I knew there there was someone close/local who actually facilitated the affair in my face that would be a different story. I don't believe that is the case. My wife was way underground with this affair. Again, I believe they only met behind a vacant building in his car. Very classy relationship that was obviously going to last forever. LMAO.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Another statistic*



leo74 said:


> While the affair was going on this friend might have been the only one who knew. She also lives half way across the country and hasn't seen her in years. I don't understand the point of proving she is into the "R" by discarding her friends. In my mind it is not necessary. Now, if I knew there there was someone close/local who actually facilitated the affair in my face that would be a different story. I don't believe that is the case. My wife was way underground with this affair. Again, I believe they only met behind a vacant building in his car. Very classy relationship that was obviously going to last forever. LMAO.


So this friend knew about the affair? Do you believe this person is a friend of the marriage?


----------



## leo74

Bfree....I understand where your going....I have no relationship with this friend and never will.....that relationship is not a concern in the big picture of what happened here.....However I am troubled that this person probably didn't tell my wife she was wrong in her actions and that I will never forget.


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## Chaparral

Did you look up delefed facebook chats?


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## leo74

I think I have seen enough


----------



## bfree

leo74 said:


> Bfree....I understand where your going....I have no relationship with this friend and never will.....that relationship is not a concern in the big picture of what happened here.....However I am troubled that this person probably didn't tell my wife she was wrong in her actions and that I will never forget.


You don't need to have a relationship with this person. Your wife does and therefore as long as you're with her so do you.

Leo if you are trying to reconcile you need to purge the bad influences from your wife's life. Allowing this person to remain friends with your wife is a bad idea. Let me ask you this. If for some reason your wife started thinking of reconnecting with her AP or maybe even starting another affair and she ran this by her friend would her friend try to stop her even at the expense of their friendship or would her friend go along with your wife's stupidity and maybe even encourage her?

Part of R is using it as an opportunity for a fresh start, some even say a brand new marriage. Knowing what you now know about this friend would you allow your wife to stay friends with her if this was a brand new marriage? Sometimes we get so lost in the big picture that we forget its the small details that often matter the most.


----------



## warlock07

How did she react?


----------



## arbitrator

Agreed! Your W needs to agree to have this man purged from her past.

And although she probably already knows his track record and is either just too afraid or complacent to care, if you don't let the OM's wife know about what happened~ then he'll largely get himself another free walk.

But by your discreet disclosure of such to her, your chances of him actually coming back around and sniffing around your doorstoop for a crack at a little "strange," will be severely diminished!


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## leo74

What stage am I in now? Im feeling that pit in my stomach again. I also thought I was over the visions of the physical acts she participated in with this man. Today I am not over it for sure. I see her coming home to kiss me and having sex with me that same night after her back seat rendezvous. Absolutely no respect for me as a human being. As if I was nothing. A piece of $%^$. Looking straight through me probably each day and night. Holy I want to barf. Yet now "snap of the fingers". She gets caught, the A is in the daylight, we see an MC and all of a sudden I appear again, she loves me, she says she is sorry, I want to forgive, why the bleep should I?, why do I still have a predominant feeling of wanting to be with her?, How did my life come to this? I started my first IC session yesterday. Its painfully obvious I need it. Last night we spoke in detail about our "R" and the past... I felt like the most vulnerable and weak man on the face of the earth breaking down like a child. I barely feel like a man anymore. Based on what I have seen and read I have lived the past 8-9 years of my life with a woman who constantly day dreamed and fantasized about being somewhere else and with someone else culminating in a 6 month physical affair showing no remorse throughout. Now I am asked to put all that in the past and concentrate on the future. Hard. Very hard.


----------



## happyman64

leo74 said:


> I had stopped home for lunch today because its on a way to a meeting I need to go to periodically. I decided to peruse her iPad and noticed a new message on her Facebook page from a girlfriend who knew my wife had an affair. The new message was nothing of significance but I noticed that the text message chain went back to and through the time of the affair. There were 3 messages from my wife to her in this chain from late September. The messages on 9/21/12 indicated something like "My man just left for a 3 week business trip to Las Vegas etc. etc." with a text "sad face" Followed by a separate picture of the sky outside of our house showing a smoke streak left by a passenger jet followed by a statement something like "We live in the Southwest Airlines Flight Path". Needless to say *I* didnt take a 3 week trip to Las Vegas and needless to say my emotions and thoughts came rushing back like a passenger jet crashing into my heart. I wanted to puke. Holy double life. I also looked at my Outlook Calendar to see what was going on in the life I was involved with around that time. As expected, knee deep in our kitchen renovation. I was so distracted during this period. Anyway....she had ran up stairs to take a shower so I had a few minutes to compose myself before I read the texts out loud to her....needless to say we had a conversation about our R. I admit there was nothing new here but the fact that I hadnt seen these exact words before was almost as devastating as the first time I found out. It just brought everything back again on how emotionally connected she was to this guy such a short time ago. I really wanted to go upstairs and curl up in a fetal position in the corner of our spare bedroom. If I was so terrible why the bleep didnt she just leave and divorce me?
> I also cant help but smile a bit at the subject of three (3) weeks in Las Vegas for the bleeping predator. Isnt prostitution legal in Vegas? My god he must have had a field day out there in between business meetings. Then after 3 weeks of *****s and strippers in Vegas im sure he immediately met my wife again and waxed poetic/"I missed you" and got another bleepjob. Except this time it didnt cost him any money like the 10 he got the 3 weeks he was in Vegas. What a life! Its funny as I have said in the past.....I feel sorry for her because she was so naive. Anyway...I will get over this little detour down memory lane today and get back on track with our R.
> 
> Thanks for reading my posts and continued support!


Leo

Isn't it amazing how stupid and foggy these cheaters are?

I am glad you read the texts to her and I am proud of you for how far you have already come.

HM64


----------



## Mtts

Keep going man, you've gone a long way and definitely have nothing to feel ashamed of. You are more of a man than many, simply walking away isn't always the right answer. Sometimes giving the oppertunity is what defines and emphasizes great character. 

You've got work ahead of you in your marriage, as long as you want it. I can say though, you have no shame for this. 

Stay strong brother.


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## leo74

Thanks man...appreciate the encouragement.....now I will continue to drink my Murphy's irish stout


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Quote: "I felt like the most vulnerable and weak man on the face of the earth breaking down like a child. I barely feel like a man anymore."

Boy, that brings back some bad memories for me...

Leo74, Hang in there. Right now, YOU are the most important person in your life. And waking up tomorrow with a hangover is something you should try to avoid. Be carefull.


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## Chaparral

It takes more of a man to stay and save his family than to walk away. It also emphasizes thatat least one parent/spouse is a first class person. Anyone can have loose morals or succumb to temptation. You are areal man, the kind that's welcome in a foxhole.


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## leo74

Wow Chapparal.....thanks.....that one really lifts me up!


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## VFW

leo74 said:


> Thanks man...appreciate the encouragement.....now I will continue to drink my Murphy's irish stout


You may have issues with your relationship, but you have great taste in beer. Murph is a great stout.


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## leo74

On Saturday, my wife was very emotional, dare I say the most emontional I have seen/heard yet in regards to what happened. However, that thought may be heavily influenced by the fact I probably was in such a state of shock for the first week or so after I found out I dont really entirely remember what she said or how she acted. I was too busy loosing my manhood in the spare bedroom. Anyway....I had left to run some errands in the AM and returning just before lunch I could hear my wife in the shower screaming crying and hitting the wall at times saying inaudible words. When she was out I went up to speak to her and she was still very distraught. The conversation went down many avenues but she said in no certain order: "I am not a immoral person"; "I am not a bad person"; "Im sorry for everything"; "I screwed everything up"; "I let you down" . The truth is I believe the way she acted for a great deal of our relationship and especially the last half of 2012 was in an immoral way (w/o question for christs sake) and she WAS a bad person as it relates to the decisions she made. My wife is NOT an immoral/bad person in whole by any means but certainly as it relates to what she did those are adjectives that should rightfully be used. I really felt a sense of remorse this time though I must say.
In addition, I was pleased to find out she sought out and found a book that is apparently written by a BS for a WS who wants to save their marriage. Look at me using all of these acronyms. You can tell I spend alot of time here. 
Last night when I turned off the lights and I shut my eyes unfortunately I began to see the vision of the acts she performed on this man. The kissing and his hands on her and in her. Still so sickening. Either I was so tired from chasing around our near 4 YO all day or I am getting better at changing my train of thought because it didnt keep me up all night. Thats a good thing. I plan on shredding any remaing piece of evidence that I have including the package that I gave the other man's wife. Having and being able to read this information hurts me immensely I have come to realize. I simply CANT have it available to read. Its Monday...back to work now!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

leo74 said:


> *I plan on shredding any remaing piece of evidence that I have including the package that I gave the other man's wife. Having and being able to read this information hurts me immensely I have come to realize. I simply CANT have it available to read. * Its Monday...back to work now!


Sorry to see you in this state. I can't relate personally. But I think you should sleep on this before you decide to destroy all of your evidence. Maybe you can put it in a safety deposit box or give it to someone you trust to hold onto it for you. Maybe it's just me, but destroying this type of evidence while your R is still up in the air may not be to your advantage. Maybe it's not needed in your state for any divorce proceedings. But getting rid of it now sounds an awful lot like you want to bury this issue and not think about this anymore. I can understand the why, but I fear you may risk succumbing to the temptation of rug sweeping this over time. 

On top of that, when you are at a better place, you may want to review all of your info and have your wife timeline everything. A lot of BS's need to fully process everything before they can heal. I know if I was in your shoes, I would have to know everything - even if it makes my life a personal hell. But eventually, you will pull through. You may get to a point where you too must know and have the timeline. Without this packet of evidence, you may regret destroying it with every fiber in your body.

Just my take.


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## happyman64

Leo
Her remorse is showing. Your wife is not a bad person. She is a person who has made bad decisions that have consequences. 

Keep being you. Show her consequences. Maybe both of you have the strength and fortitude to see yourselves through this crisis together and have the marriage you both want.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

You guys are just a few month in, and this was the toughest time for me. What interesting is in my deal , I confronted in winter and as summer came around we spent alot of time together in the pool and going out and doing things together like summer vacations and just doing summer stuff.

My point is by July (6 month from dd) things will get better. At least in my case that reconnection over the summer was a big plus.

when the one year anny for dd comes around it kind a gets tough and expect the argument with regard to you still triggering and healing and her do her best and pointing out her efforts....it will happen but that the new reality for the both of you.

For me it like ...back in the day arguments were about money, time, kids, and day to day stress' of running a family...well for you and me and other our new reality is now infidelity is now part of the day to day stress' of running a family.

Its been 3 years (Feb. '10) in R and thats my perspective.

Ya when it come to destroying the evidence, turn it into an event the both of you can symbolize and a out with the old and in with the new......to be honest the only thing we didn't burn was the phone numbers. We decided to keep this around to see if the OM's were fishing, It has come in handy twice in the past three years.

My FWW has come to me and asked if I had these number's "on file" I said yes and knowing not to respond to them. In my FWW case there were so many OM's she couldn't keep track of there phone numbers.

Anyway as long as both of you work hard this thing can work out, it sucks to even have to work it out, even with all the day to day crap that already excites, but thats the new reality....she works on affair proofing the marriage and you work on healing....well in fact from the sound of things the both of you need to heal and that takes time.

On side note being witness to see how my FWW affair proof her marriage for the past 3 years still give s me hope and that it won't happen again...I believe she now has the tools to stay a way from those unhealthy behaviors.


----------



## Acabado

My story is different from others; I put on hold the D procedings at my wife's request three months after DDay, stayed mostly for the kids the following six months. I got rid of all evidence once I commited fully to rebuild our marriage, that makes it nine months after DDay.


----------



## leo74

leo74 said:


> She still hasnt done it yet to my knowledge......but I will give her the benefit of the doubt as she has been very busy through last week working...it certainly takes a clear mind to move forward with an action like that....there is also a strategic way to present it w/o completely looking like a scorned lover to the director of the event......we will see what happens this week since she is working very little...I sincerely hope she does it soon.


My wife indicated today that she had begun typing her letter to the director of the volunteer event at which she met the OM. For those of you not up to speed on my now gigantic thread she had volunteered at this place for 8 years and as you would expect (affair aside) she loved the sense of accomplishment and comaraderie associated with it. Obviousy now she knows she can never go back there again because of the choices she made and it hurts her. At somepoint the OM used his directorial position to seek out my wife's cell phone number from the records of the voluneer event. Obviously a major breach of ethics. Although she fell hook, line and sinker VERY quickly my wife now knows this guy was nothing more than a predator and wants the overall organization to know how he crossed the ethical line. I applaud her for these efforts as it does show commitment to us but I remain concerned that it will accomplish little more than making her look like a scorned lover. I confirmed today that the OM is back at the event in the same position this year. This means one of two things. The first possibility is the OMW is a complete idiot and didnt absorb the part where I explained to her (in person and on paper) how my wife and her husband had met and still let him back there (This pisses me off). The second possibility is they have separated and/or are in the process of divorcing so the OM can do and be where ever he pleases with no consequences (This makes me happy yet slightly pisses me off because he got to keep the event). In the end I really think its important that the "when and how" should be of her choosing without and undue influence by me.


----------



## sandc

OMW is willing to accept his behavior for the financial security he provides her. You did your part. Your conscience is clean. Now if your wife does her part, OM will no longer be allowed to participate in the event and that will close off his hunting grounds to him.


----------



## WyshIknew

leo74 said:


> While the affair was going on this friend might have been the only one who knew. She also lives half way across the country and hasn't seen her in years. I don't understand the point of proving she is into the "R" by discarding her friends. In my mind it is not necessary. Now, if I knew there there was someone close/local who actually facilitated the affair in my face that would be a different story. I don't believe that is the case. My wife was way underground with this affair. Again, I believe they only met behind a vacant building in his car. Very classy relationship that was obviously going to last forever. LMAO.


And yet you maintain you own some of the blame for not meeting her emotional needs.

What 'emotional' needs were being met in the back of some ****heads car? This looks more like nasty, dirty, horny fun sex.

Obviously we do not know exactly what emotional needs you felt you were not giving your wife.

I would suspect that your so called failings were very minimal in reality. So you were busy at work working long hours, and working on the kitchen. Well boo hoo for her, welcome to the real life faced by many people.


----------



## leo74

My wife was a dreamer no question and unfortunately it may have taken a nuclear disaster such as this to wake her up and in turn to wake me up....just in different ways.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you contacted the charity and ask for the OM to be dismissed or you will publicize his actions and his use of charity records ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Woodchuck

leo74 said:


> My wife was a dreamer no question and unfortunately it may have taken a nuclear disaster such as this to wake her up and in turn to wake me up....just in different ways
> 
> 
> 
> You said you were not meeting your wifes emotional needs. My wife and I have been in the same boat....You seem sincere in wanting to make things better...
> 
> my wife and I have been married 47 years...Our marriage was in a bad place, to the point of discussing divorce...After a big blowout, she said someone told her about a book that might help....I was so desperate I ordered it that day....Ten bucks on ebay...
> 
> The book was "The 5 Love Languages"...I had NO hope the book would help...When we got it, she started reading it, but after a couple of chapters had to do chores, so I picked it up and started reading...The premise is simple, The wording isn't psycological crap, and it made sense....I don't think I put the book down till I finished it......Then the wife picked it up, and finished reading it....
> 
> A person feels good about the person who fulfills them emotionally...It makes that person EASY TO LOVE...
> 
> The whole point of the book is that different people need different things to feel emotionally fulfilled...You speak the language you understand to your mate, and they reply in the language they understand.....If both don't speak the same languages they do not give their mate the emotional support they they crave...They become emotionally bankrupt....
> 
> There are 5 languages:
> 1 Acts of service
> 2 physical touch
> 3 Words of affirmation
> 4 Quality time
> 5 gifts
> 
> 
> If you need "Physical touch" And your mate speaks gifts...
> You are craving a hug, and sex, and she buys you a ROLEX......
> You become emotionally bankrupt.....
> 
> Your wife craves "words of affirmation", and you tile the bathroom....She is going to be pissed....
> 
> You are both saying I love and support you, and both of you hear
> nothing but gibberish....
> 
> If two people decide they want to love one another, and want their partner to be emotionally fulfilled, The book will show both of them how...
> 
> People who learn how to communicate have less conflict...It's as simple as that...
> 
> Saturday my wife was in a bad mood...We are doing some work on the kitchen, and she felt she had wasted the morning because she couldn't find a light fixture....She came home and began acting out in a negative manner.....In the past I would have picked up on it, fed off of it, and a blowout would have ensued...DEAD CERTAIN.....
> 
> Instead I tried to tease and reason her out of her mood...Everything stayed light, and no fighting...
> 
> Sunday I lay down after breakfast to watch TV. The wife joind me and said she had been silly for being in such a bad mood the day before, and was very affectionate....
> 
> We had HONEYMOON SEX for 3 hours.....It was absolutely one of those lovemaking sessions that you always remember.....
> 
> It was not the first time we have done that since reading the book........
> 
> How much would a day like that mean to you.....
> 
> If you look up my threads last Oct.-Dec. You will see the absolute hell my life was then....If someone had told me they could make this big a change in my marriage, for $5,000 cash....I would have paid GLADLY.....Not bad for $10 on ebay....
> 
> Good luck
> the woodchuck


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Leo74, I'd think really hard before I shredded all the evidence. I mean you want this to work out, we all do, but you can get rid of it in 3, 6 months, maybe a year. I think the safety deposit box is a great idea. You hopefully will never have to look at it again and when you do decide to destroy it, it will have more meaning. Victory. Please consider this for a little while. Good luck, I'm pulling for you.


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## Chaparral

It looks like he weaseled his way into your wifes life. Here is a post by a guy that preyed on married women. He claimed it was easier to pick up married women than single women. Also, married women were much easier to control.

If you can do it would you check it out, possibly print it off and question your wife to see if any of this was what he pulled on her?

Also have you printed off the Wayward Spouse list and gone over it with you wife?

Link to Wayward Spouse Instructions post number 11 http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sided-need-perspective-please.html#post534068

Predator post:

*Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
findingmyway is offline Forward Message *


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## leo74

Wow....makes me sick....I guarantee THIS is the guy that my wife fell for.....wow....wow....i am speechless.....yet I feel a sense of vindication using the term "predator" from early on describing the OM on here, to my wife and to the MC...I will show this to her.


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## leo74

There is so much of that confessed predator post the resonates with me. I have been shaking my head privately in disgust since I first read it as this bleeping guy (a guy exactly like him) got off on a regular basis thanks to my wife. Yes...Im that shmuck he mentions throughout. These particular excerpts really get to me and I believe describe best what my wife fell into mental and physically:
1 - "_*I sold the fantasy*_" - She was fantasizing for so many years...he sold it and she ate it up. The OM is director of business development. His job is to sell.
2 - "_*Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.*_" - I rest my case.
3 - *"I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal."* - There is one excerpt from an email that I originally found where she was describing how he said to her he believed they were truly meant to be together in not so many words. I dont want to type it as it makes me want laugh yet puke at the same time.

I am the shmuck. Sometimes I almost wish that I was unfaithful at somepoint. I could then admit it and I wouldnt have the right to feel so sick she got the OM off so many times while wearing the wedding ring I gave her. *But that is all it ever was. A fair trade* according to a Predator. I guess this is why alot of these situtations end up where the BS has a revenge affair. Its so hard not to be angry at times yet when I see her I still have the predominant feeling of happiness, attraction, love. Deep pain can humble a man. Its only been 73 days since D day. I think Im doing pretty good considering.


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## Rags

leo74 said:


> Its only been 73 days since D day. I think Im doing pretty good considering.


Amazingly, all things considered.


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## mahike

Leo stay strong Revenge A's will get you nothing but more pain. It sounds like you are trying to R with your wife. Are you in MC and how is that going?

Anger is tough to control. You need a physical outlet like sports, working out and such. I hit the batting cages, driving range. I also have shot a lot of skeet and trap. I just imagine that POS face on the clay pigeon. Stay strong


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## leo74

Thanks man....I have no desire to seek that type of revenge....I'm looking forward to 2 days of non-stop basketball with guys starting tomorrow.


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## sandc

I'd be tempted to ask for the wedding ring back until she can prove that she's really your wife.


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## leo74

This affair was over when I found out....had I not found out she would of kept it a secret and there might have been more to come....humiliation....I know there were multiple people who knew about this affair....no one stepped up and said..."I'm your friend/relative...I want you to be happy....but what your doing is wrong to the father if your child"....no one....no one....it would feel good for her to go back to these same people and ask...why didn't you talk some sense into me...I want her to retract all the negative crap she said to all these people to justify her behavior.....to apologize and state to them "I made a mistake"..."I shouldn't have done this!!!"..."my husband is not the person I betrayed him to be"..."I truly loved him deep down"!!!....show me respect to the same people that approved of my disrespect!


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## the guy

In my case it wasn't so much asking for respect but showing me the submission I needed in taking my old lady back.

Part of the heavy lifting in saving a waywards marriage is submitting to the wants and needs of the betrayed.


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## walkonmars

The people who knew and said nothing are not friends of the marriage - in fact not real friends to her either. Real friends would have counseled her to seek a divorce from you and to keep her self-respect. Did they do that? Nope. They did what too many "friends" do: "you go gurl" 

These people should not be in your lives. It would be a sign of true remorse for your wife to send them a note expressing her shame for the affair and asking them not to contact her or you ever again.


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## leo74

Not truly friends when you think about it..


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## BobSimmons

walkonmars said:


> The people who knew and said nothing are not friends of the marriage - in fact not real friends to her either. Real friends would have counseled her to seek a divorce from you and to keep her self-respect. Did they do that? Nope. They did what too many "friends" do: "you go gurl"
> 
> These people should not be in your lives. It would be a sign of true remorse for your wife to send them a note expressing her shame for the affair and asking them not to contact her or you ever again.


I think that's the most evil part for me. The fact they knew, probably took it home and gossiped about it, all probably under the "it's none of my business" mantra, negating the fact that it's simply morally unconscionable to sit there and do nothing while this was taking place.


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## leo74

Exactly


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## walkonmars

BobSimmons said:


> I think that's the most evil part for me. The fact they knew, probably took it home and gossiped about it, all probably under the "it's none of my business" mantra, negating the fact that it's simply morally unconscionable to sit there and do nothing while this was taking place.


Yes sir. Not friends - true friends, real friends are hard to make and easy to keep. 

What your wife and Leo's wife had were casual acquaintances. No more that strangers when it comes to caring for another human being.


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## Will_Kane

leo74 said:


> This affair was over when I found out....had I not found out she would of kept it a secret and there might have been more to come....humiliation....I know there were multiple people who knew about this affair....no one stepped up and said..."I'm your friend/relative...I want you to be happy....but what your doing is wrong to the father if your child"....no one....no one....it would feel good for her to go back to these same people and ask...why didn't you talk some sense into me...I want her to retract all the negative crap she said to all these people to justify her behavior.....to apologize and state to them "I made a mistake"..."I shouldn't have done this!!!"..."my husband is not the person I betrayed him to be"..."I truly loved him deep down"!!!....show me respect to the same people that approved of my disrespect!


Why not have her do this? Have her write a letter to all the people who knew about the affair setting the record straight about her being the evil cheater and what she said about you not being true. Then she gives it to you to mail to them. She doesn't have to call herself evil. But they already know she is a cheater. If this will make you feel better, why shouldn't she do it?


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## Will_Kane

walkonmars said:


> The people who knew and said nothing are not friends of the marriage - in fact not real friends to her either. Real friends would have counseled her to seek a divorce from you and to keep her self-respect. Did they do that? Nope. They did what too many "friends" do: "you go gurl"
> 
> *These people should not be in your lives. It would be a sign of true remorse for your wife to send them a note expressing her shame for the affair and asking them not to contact her or you ever again*.


Why should you be reminded of the affair every time you see these lowlifes?

Have your wife include in her letter not to bother ever calling either of you again.


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## Will_Kane

leo74 said:


> Now for my question. Although in the end, my wife was a willfull participant in this affair it appears to me he was the initial aggressor. She gave into his manipulation as he played on the simple things that I wasn't giving her. A predator almost. *There needs to be consequences for everyone in this situation.*


Writing the letter is part of the consequences for the betrayal of your wife telling lies about you to others.


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## leo74

Ive kind of been dwelling on the humiliation and disrespect the past few days associated with the infidelity. At times I feel like such a shmuck (see Predator post) and less than a man yet I immediately retract those feelings because I know this simply was not my fault. I think I am beginning to understand the comments that it takes more of a man to save his family then to walk out on his family because of infidelity by ones spouse. This really is tough in so many ways not least of which is ego. Your wife got off another man as part of a fantasy exchange.....not only that....in an SUV behind a vacant building for christs sake....this is still running through my head nearly every day. The words humiliation and disrespect are so prominant I sound like a broken record.
My wife bestowed alot of humiliation and disrespect upon me to anyone who would listen out there on various forums, via FB and in real life. No question I could have been much more attentive to her needs for a very long time and there certainly is issues on my side from a relationship perspective , but by us still being togeher AKA coming back to me shows that I really wasnt that bad in the first place. She stated very recently to that type of conversation as "I always loved you deep down". My IC reiterated that she had another option to wake me up in lieu of this nuclear disaster. As I said over the weekend...show me respect to those who listened and indirectly approved of my disrespect. There are at least two (2) people who knew about the OM and never counseled her to stop and do the moral thing. The girlfriend who lives out of state and her cousin. Thankfully I have basically no contact with either. The girlfriend out of state replied to my wife's text one time "give me the juicy details". This is mind blowing and as one said shows ZERO support for the institution of marriage and shows this woman is truly NOT my wife's friend. The cousin I have met in person I think one time and by a chain of texts between her and my wife immediately after D day clearly show she is barely an acquaintance much less a relative or even a friend. I dont think it was realistic that these individuals should have come to me, but I feel that there should have been at least some effort on their parts to counsel their supposed friend/relative that what she was doing was dead wrong. Needless to say, these two will never be acknowledged by me as human beings ever again. They will NEVER be welcomed into my house again. She has other friends in the area that I have met and hung out with a hundred times along with their husbands. I believe my wife kept the A underground with them and they didnt find out until we were talking divorce that first week or so after D day. Had one or two of these girls known about the affair I think I would be crushed. I really hope I can find someday emails/texts/posts that paint me in a positive light to these same people who think I am the worst husband on earth.


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## mahike

This is normal. I felt like WTF am I not a man a few times. The mind movies really suck. In my case I had pictures to deal with and very descriptive emails.

You need some outlets for the anger and upset. Have you started any type of IC yet. I really recommend you try, it really helped me.


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## leo74

In reality our material life hasn't changed from a day to day perspective since D-day. I still work 50 hrs a week, she still works 20 hrs a week, we still have a 3.5 yo, I still pay the bills, we both drive the same cars, live in the same house, we planned a summer vacation like we always did...the list goes on. The only thing that has changed is that we both are awake but in different ways. I know I am awake to the fact that I wasn't the best husband at an emotional level for many years. I know I am awake to the fact that i was naive for so many years in regards to the fact that i was married to a woman who was capable of acting out in this way. I know she is awake to the fact she cheated and fell for a predator and nearly lost her family in the process. I hope she is awake to the reality of life in general and is no longer fantasizing about another life. I hope she is beginning to awake to the fact that she has always had a man that could give her everything she needed (not just the material things.) 
With all this I am deathly afraid of letting my guard down and so afraid I will make some sort of misstep. This from the perspective of my wife potentially cheating on me again because i let my guard down and me not paying attention to her needs. So here are my feelings on a daily basis...humbled from the great pain i have suffered, humiliation for obvious reasons, disrespected, scared, nervous, foolish, stupid, anger, uncertainty, a sense of being a failure, a sense of being less than a man, a sense of hope, a sense of desire for a better life.....a sense of deep love and attraction to this woman. I can see after typing this.....2 weeks between IC sessions isn't a good idea.


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## sandc

Leo, maybe you weren't the best husband, but your wife had choices. She chose to betray you. She could have chosen to talk to you, to slap you in the face, to file for separation or even divorce. Now you've made your choices. You're choosing to take your wife back and give her love she doesn't deserve. She needs to understand that and be grateful for it EVERY moment of EVERY day. You can also chose to let her know that this was her one chance. She so much as winks at another man and she can face the rest of her life with whomever she chooses. Because you will be choosing someone else over her. Just like she did to you.


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## BobSimmons

leo74 said:


> In reality our material life hasn't changed from a day to day perspective since D-day. I still work 50 hrs a week, she still works 20 hrs a week, we still have a 3.5 yo, I still pay the bills, we both drive the same cars, live in the same house, we planned a summer vacation like we always did...the list goes on. The only thing that has changed is that we both are awake but in different ways. I know I am awake to the fact that I wasn't the best husband at an emotional level for many years. I know I am awake to the fact that i was naive for so many years in regards to the fact that i was married to a woman who was capable of acting out in this way. I know she is awake to the fact she cheated and fell for a predator and nearly lost her family in the process. I hope she is awake to the reality of life in general and is no longer fantasizing about another life. I hope she is beginning to awake to the fact that she has always had a man that could give her everything she needed (not just the material things.)
> With all this I am deathly afraid of letting my guard down and so afraid I will make some sort of misstep. This from the perspective of my wife potentially cheating on me again because i let my guard down and *me not paying attention to her needs*. So here are my feelings on a daily basis...humbled from the great pain i have suffered, humiliation for obvious reasons, disrespected, scared, nervous, foolish, stupid, anger, uncertainty, a sense of being a failure, a sense of being less than a man, a sense of hope, a sense of desire for a better life.....a sense of deep love and attraction to this woman. I can see after typing this.....2 weeks between IC sessions isn't a good idea.


I'm sorry what about your needs? 

I call BS on this every time. Partner cheats..man or woman and the excuse is needs weren't met, I didn't feel desired...

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO REASON TO CHEAT

No justifications

No excuses

No issues

For 6 months did she care about your needs, the vows she undertook, what she was potentially doing to you?

If her needs weren't being met, you do the adult thing, you talk. If talking doesn't work and you're that fed up get a divorce.

I call BS on this every time, because it's rug-sweeping. I sleep with someone else makes my marriage stronger.

Now it's you on tender hooks. Now it's you scared to death that if you don't treat her right she'll stray again.

*What about you?*

You didn't/don't deserve this. It wasn't your fault. Don't let her blame shift.


----------



## leo74

She has and is showing remorse.....she really isn't blame shifting outwardly....she did it initially to a certain extent though for sure....I probably do need more of something from her to help me through this R......but I can't explain what it is.....maybe constant reassurance in different ways showing me (physically and with words) that I am the sole object of her desire and that what she did could never remotely have a chance of happening again!


----------



## walkonmars

Leo
Stop wringing your hands in anguish. You accepted her betrayal and placed blame on yourself. She agreed with you that you were to blame. The "predator" bogy man was to blame, sunspots were to blame - global warming too. Okay - it's done. 

Start living your life YOUR WAY. Stop with the anguish. Realize that she (or anyone else) cannot give you happiness and serenity. Those come from you. That's your responsibility - and yours alone. 

She can enhance your life and happiness. But she (or anyone else) cannot fulfill you. You can bring joy to her life as she can to yours. You can bring joy to your child as your child can do to you. But not true happiness. 

You have love to offer - offer it wholly and in total. Expect the same. Be faithful - expect the same. Act with integrity - expect the same. 

Let her know these things and let her know that you will walk your own path if she chooses to betray you again. Say it and mean it.


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## leo74

Great advice....thank you


----------



## Chaparral

leo74 said:


> She has and is showing remorse.....she really isn't blame shifting outwardly....she did it initially to a certain extent though for sure....I probably do need more of something from her to help me through this R......but I can't explain what it is.....maybe constant reassurance in different ways showing me (physically and with words) that I am the sole object of her desire and that what she did could never remotely have a chance of happening again!


Have you printed this and read it all with her?

* The Wayward Spouse Instructions

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! *


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## Chaparral

And this is for you. 

_
Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!_




BTW did you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER?


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## Chaparral

leo74 said:


> In reality our material life hasn't changed from a day to day perspective since D-day. I still work 50 hrs a week, she still works 20 hrs a week, we still have a 3.5 yo, I still pay the bills, we both drive the same cars, live in the same house, we planned a summer vacation like we always did...the list goes on. The only thing that has changed is that we both are awake but in different ways. I know I am awake to the fact that I wasn't the best husband at an emotional level for many years. I know I am awake to the fact that i was naive for so many years in regards to the fact that i was married to a woman who was capable of acting out in this way. I know she is awake to the fact she cheated and fell for a predator and nearly lost her family in the process. I hope she is awake to the reality of life in general and is no longer fantasizing about another life. I hope she is beginning to awake to the fact that she has always had a man that could give her everything she needed (not just the material things.)
> With all this I am deathly afraid of letting my guard down and so afraid I will make some sort of misstep. This from the perspective of my wife potentially cheating on me again because i let my guard down and me not paying attention to her needs. So here are my feelings on a daily basis...humbled from the great pain i have suffered, humiliation for obvious reasons, disrespected, scared, nervous, foolish, stupid, anger, uncertainty, a sense of being a failure, a sense of being less than a man, a sense of hope, a sense of desire for a better life.....a sense of deep love and attraction to this woman. I can see after typing this.....2 weeks between IC sessions isn't a good idea.


You need to get something straight. You have no blame for anything your wife or any other person does. Your wife did not look and say, He is just blah,b lah, and he does blah, blah. She listened to a man who laid some practiced lines and fell for it hook line and sinker..............because she wanted to.

Everyone has biological urges, they are natural. Cheating is because that person lets desire overcome common sense. Plus, they do not think they will get caught.

75% of men and women polled, said they would have an affair if they KNEW they would not get caught. Meaning no one would get hurt and they could have a little variety on the side.

You are a good man. Men and women are like cats and dogs, they do not communicate well and often times do not even try. But thinking a person will not cheat on a pefect mate is a myth.

Read Shirley Glass' book, NOT JUST FRIENDS, Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity: Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: 9780743225502: Amazon.com: Books Unless people take the proper steps, wvery marriage is a possible victim of infidelity and at least half of them are. In half of all marriages, one or both partners will cheat.

You have been strong, reliable and I am sure you would have given your life to save your wifes. You can have my back in a foxhole any day.

Have you read this book yet?
The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

If you read these two books, it will help more than you can imagine. You wife absolutely needs to read Not Just Friends.

You also need to be certain that she understands if she acts shady or cheats again the divorce papers will be delivered immediately.


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## leo74

I just ordered "not just friends" on Amazon. There were other things that I have seen that show my wife didnt understand the boundaries in relationships between the opposite sex.


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## leo74

So Im about 40 pages into "Not just friends". Initial reaction is my wife should have read this about 10 years ago because until just after D day she didnt understand the boundaries that need to be established between another male when the female is married. I wish I had actually started to read this within a week or so after D day. This book is basically proving what I have said for so many years. A male and a female simply can not just be friends.


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## happyman64

leo74 said:


> So Im about 40 pages into "Not just friends". Initial reaction is my wife should have read this about 10 years ago because until just after D day she didnt understand the boundaries that need to be established between another male when the female is married. I wish I had actually started to read this within a week or so after D day. This book is basically proving what I have said for so many years. *A male and a female simply can not just be friends.*


Not true. Some gay guys make great friends for some women.

That is the only instance I can think of.


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## bfree

*Re: Re: Another statistic*



happyman64 said:


> Not true. Some gay guys make great friends for some women.
> 
> That is the only instance I can think of.


I've even seen that go bad. Sometimes gay men aren't 100 percent gay and sometimes they have straight friends.


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## leo74

This book is also reiterating what I always knew since D day that my wife has to de-friend and "ignore" her former fiancé (who is divorced and single) on Facebook. I know as of 8 mos ago she was still in contact with him. Too much potential to rekindle past feelings.


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## frozen

leo74 said:


> I am the shmuck. Sometimes I almost wish that I was unfaithful at somepoint. I could then admit it and I wouldnt have the right to feel so sick she got the OM off so many times while wearing the wedding ring I gave her. *But that is all it ever was. A fair trade* according to a Predator. I guess this is why alot of these situtations end up where the BS has a revenge affair. Its so hard not to be angry at times yet when I see her I still have the predominant feeling of happiness, attraction, love. Deep pain can humble a man. Its only been 73 days since D day. I think Im doing pretty good considering.


Leo,

Don't give another thought to the notion that you would somehow feel not as bad if you had a fling to admit. Speaking from experience, you would not get an ounce of relief from the pain you feel. It would only create a much harder environment for reconciliation, because WW would not be thinking of the pain she caused you, but rather focused on the pain you caused her.

17 months into recovery and it f***** sucks. Most days I am a shell of what I should be. The weight of anothers infidelity is a persistant shackle not easily broken free of. But its possible.


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## leo74

I had a dream better described as a nightmare recently that I followed her to the place where they met behind the vacant building.....looked in to the SUV and saw her giving him oral sex....she turns around and sees me....looks at me with no expression....turns back and continues doing what she was doing like I was not even there!....these types of thoughts are what !?$&!! suck.


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## happyman64

bfree said:


> I've even seen that go bad. Sometimes gay men aren't 100 percent gay and sometimes they have straight friends.


Time to put on the garlic in that case...


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