# Am I off base with my concerns of my wife keeping her communications with her oldest son and ex off limits?



## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

My wife (45 female) of three years keeps her first marriage very guarded and I (53 male) am only given access in small table spoons any information about her during that time period. I accepted this in our relationship and normally brush away the little lies here and there that she creates to divert the conversation. My concern now is her lack of trust to allow me to read messages between her oldest son and her ex-husband. Both people I do not trust and both continue to abuse her and take advantage of her kindness. I have taken on the responsibility of raising her younger son. She wants her adult son to come live with us and I don't like this at all, since I know so little about this adult child personality and because she limits me by restricting me from her communication with him. She states those conversations are private. In my mind, it feels more like she is keeping secretes.
Other then that, I have no reservations with my wife to have full access to all parts of my life without a second though. I feel, I should change all my passwords and restrict sharing anything about my adult children and our conversations. I know this sounds childish.
Am I just being insecure and partially controlling wanting to read their correspondence between them without it being filtered by my wife?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Blue17Wind said:


> My wife (45 female) of three years keeps her first marriage very guarded and I (53 male) am only given access in small table spoons any information about her during that time period. I accepted this in our relationship and normally brush away the little lies here and there that she creates to divert the conversation. My concern now is her lack of trust to allow me to read messages between her oldest son and her ex-husband. Both people I do not trust and both continue to abuse her and take advantage of her kindness. I have taken on the responsibility of raising her younger son. She wants her adult son to come live with us and I don't like this at all, since I know so little about this adult child personality and because she limits me by restricting me from her communication with him. She states those conversations are private. In my mind, it feels more like she is keeping secretes.
> Other then that, I have no reservations with my wife to have full access to all parts of my life without a second though. I feel, I should change all my passwords and restrict sharing anything about my adult children and our conversations. I know this sounds childish.
> Am I just being insecure and partially controlling wanting to read their correspondence between them without it being filtered by my wife?


I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


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## Gfawkes (8 mo ago)

She wants an adult man, her son, to come live with you. You are uncertain about his character. You have a right to know all about him if he's going to become a close member of your household. 

If it where me, I'd say "no" to your wife's codependency, "no" to the unknown, and "no" to the threat posed to your person and your property.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yeah, aside from everything else, unless you previously agreed to have a adult son live with you, you should just say no to that but it might be a deal breaker for her.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Gfawkes said:


> She wants an adult man, her son, to come live with you. You are uncertain about his character. You have a right to know all about him if he's going to become a close member of your household.
> 
> If it where me, I'd say "no" to your wife's codependency, "no" to the unknown, and "no" to the threat posed to your person and your property.


Appreciate your direct response.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I would say that until you get to know the adult son better, you don't want him living there. You have NO idea if you could deal with him, and if he is still very involved with her ex, what EXACTLY does that mean? You certainly are entitled to more details about that relationship before you are anywhere close to taking on having him live there.
If he is an adult, why exactly does he need to live with Mommy??


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How old is her older son?

Does the younger son's father pay child support? How old is the younger son?


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


I believe what he may be describing is secrecy, not good.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Question: How does the older son and his father (the Ex) get along?

If, not too well, than she might be shielding him from his father.

Maybe, circling her wagons against the ex-husband?
...........................................................................................

Could it be, that she is calling for backup in her new marriage?
Backup from the one left behind?


I know this much....
She brought her old marital baggage into your marriage.
While this is a common occurrence, it adds to the new families, dynamic discord.


..........................................................................................

I realize that there are many questions left unanswered (for you).
This makes it doubly challenging for us to untangle your wife's thoughts.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I do not recommend that her older son come to live with you (without more information coming forward).

Find out what the time frame will be.

Will it be open-ended?
Not good, if that is the case.

If he does move in with you and your wife, some of those secrets will come to light.
The truth will be spoken under your homes eaves.
It will be there that you do your eaves-dropping.

Yes.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Honestly her secret behavior between and ex and her son maybe her business to a point the moment it impacts your life then all bets are off, and she has got to understand where you are coming from, frankly i hope she has not gotten you in line to be her younger son meal ticket....i am concern for you position in all of this, you know the moment the son moves in you are on your way out because he will not listen to you jsut like your wife....tell me is this your house or both of your house? I smell a trap here


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

People don't really have the right to disclose private communications they're having with someone else. You have no right to see a third party's communications. They have a right to privacy. I got really mad at A girlfriend of mine when I found out she had shared her password with a guy after I've been emailing her what I was going through at the moment. It was very personal and she had no right to share that with anybody. I'd known her for 30 years and I didn't know him at all and he had no business with my information. She didn't think he would use it, but that's beside the point. So no it's not just between you and your wife. But everyone has a right to some privacy.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

While I don’t think she needs to share every detail of her conversations that she has with her ex and son (with you), why does she not want to share anything? You’re an important part of her life. In my opinion, it would seem natural to want to share things with you, so no, you’re not being insecure.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> People don't really have the right to disclose private communications they're having with someone else. You have no right to see a third party's communications. They have a right to privacy. I got really mad at A girlfriend of mine when I found out she had shared her password with a guy after I've been emailing her what I was going through at the moment. It was very personal and she had no right to share that with anybody. Unknown her for 30 years and I didn't know him at all and he had no business with my information. She didn't think he would use it, but that's beside the point. So no it's not just between you and your wife. But everyone has a right to some privacy.


Sure, if you're not married or with a long term partner. I don't keep any of my texts or calls hidden from my wife. If someone tells me something there is a good chance I'm going to tell my wife. If I am talking to someone it's with the assumption that they might tell their SO or their SO may see it. Some do share, some don't. I don't recall anyone ever asking permission to tell their SO, nor would I expect them too. 

If those are the only conversations she is hiding from her husband, then it's a red flag and there is something she doesn't want her husband to know. 



DownByTheRiver said:


> I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


She shouldn't be venting to or confiding in her ex-husband.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Sure, if you're not married or with a long term partner. I don't keep any of my texts or calls hidden from my wife. If someone tells me something there is a good chance I'm going to tell my wife. If I am talking to someone it's with the assumption that they might tell their SO or their SO may see it. Some do share, some don't. I don't recall anyone ever asking permission to tell their SO, nor would I expect them too.
> 
> If those are the only conversations she is hiding from her husband, then it's a red flag and there is something she doesn't want her husband to know.
> 
> ...


People have a legal right to privacy. That's why we have privacy laws and why putting trackers and sneaking into other people's phones is illegal. That's why tampering with mail is illegal. If the law thinks it's a good idea, there's a good reason for it. Legally both parties would have to consent to sharing private communication. If there is this much suspicion in a relationship, probably best to just leave the relationship. No one wants to live like that.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Do you have wealth that they could take? Money makes people do really ugly things.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As far as the adult son moving in, I imagine if you made him sign a contract to pay a third of your mortgage and expenses for the lease, that would probably be the end of the conversation.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

As I try to teach my children, do not put anything in writing that you do not want others to see.

I agree that everybody doesn’t always need to know every little thing. Privacy these days is hard to come by. However, to me, it is very unreasonable for her to expect you to be ok with her adult son moving in without you getting know him & be around him first.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> How old is her older son?
> 
> Does the younger son's father pay child support? How old is the younger son?


The older son is 20. The younger child is 13 and has been with me for the past 4 years. Ex does not pay a cent. Mother must beg to get him to send a couple of bucks to the kid on his birthday.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Honestly her secret behavior between and ex and her son maybe her business to a point the moment it impacts your life then all bets are off, and she has got to understand where you are coming from, frankly i hope she has not gotten you in line to be her younger son meal ticket....i am concern for you position in all of this, you know the moment the son moves in you are on your way out because he will not listen to you jsut like your wife....tell me is this your house or both of your house? I smell a trap here


It is my house before marriage. But California is a community property State a lesson I learned well after my first marriage ended.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> As I try to teach my children, do not put anything in writing that you do not want others to see.
> 
> I agree that everybody doesn’t always need to know every little thing. Privacy these days is hard to come by. However, to me, it is very unreasonable for her to expect you to be ok with her adult son moving in without you getting know him & be around him first.


Thank you. I belief a relationship with the older son should be established first. My own grow children do not live with us for the simple fact that it would put a strain on our new life together. A point she understands when it is my adult biological children but not when it is her adult child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Where has he been living up till now? Does their dad see them?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Blue17Wind

I think that some more info is needed so that you can get some good input here. 

What reason does your wife give for wanting her son to move into your home? 
Where has he been living?
Does he have a job and/or attend school?


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Where has he been living up till now? Does their dad see them?


He live with his biological father as his mother support him with college tution. His father was suppose to be financially responsible for the oldest son. But this is not the case. I know the bond between a mother and son is strong and I don't expect her to just let him go without. But I can handle most of this emotional baggage. The secrecy is what bothers me the most when she is expecting me to pick up the piece for a seed that is not mine but anothers responsablity.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

The adult child does not have any ambition to find a part time job while in college. His mother does not push the issue with him. All three of my biological children worked at least part time when in college to help with cost. A fact she knows about and says she admires.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> @Blue17Wind
> 
> I think that some more info is needed so that you can get some good input here.
> 
> ...


Tje oldest son lives with his father. The father only wanted the oldest child. His younger son who lives with us has a learning handicap and was easily rejected by his father and his family. No job. Refuses to even look for part time work.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Blue17Wind said:


> Tje oldest son lives with his father. The father only wanted the oldest child. His younger son who lives with us has a learning handicap and was easily rejected by his father and his family. No job. Refuses to even look for part time work.


Then ask your wife how that older son will be contributing financially to the household -- and NOT by HER giving him money to give to you....
She is enabling him by letting his get away with this. Too bad he doesn't want a job. What happens in a couple of years when he's out of school -- umm.. JOB TIME. A part time job now will help him grow up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When will he graduate from college? Is he a Junior now?

Does your wife have a job?


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> When will he graduate from college? Is he a Junior now?
> 
> Does your wife have a job?


He is about to complete his sophomore year. My wife works part time from home. This is a choice I agreed too. I knew that my stepson would need extra support and attention to adjust to his new family structure and for his mom to help with his studies.


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## PhilWynn (8 mo ago)

I think it's their human right to have some privacy. But if you don't want to her son live with you, you should tell her about it, without any compromise. Good luck!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blue17Wind said:


> He live with his biological father as his mother support him with college tution. His father was suppose to be financially responsible for the oldest son. But this is not the case. I know the bond between a mother and son is strong and I don't expect her to just let him go without. But I can handle most of this emotional baggage. The secrecy is what bothers me the most when she is expecting me to pick up the piece for a seed that is not mine but anothers responsablity.


When you marry someone with children you take them on too. That's what many don't think about. My husband did that with mine and they often lived with us. 
Do you know why he doesnt want to live with his dad any more?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> People have a legal right to privacy. That's why we have privacy laws and why putting trackers and sneaking into other people's phones is illegal. That's why tampering with mail is illegal. If the law thinks it's a good idea, there's a good reason for it. Legally both parties would have to consent to sharing private communication. If there is this much suspicion in a relationship, probably best to just leave the relationship. No one wants to live like that.


Kind of an oxymoron that quote if the law thinks it's a good idea it's always a good idea.


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

im a little confused !!!
1) when you marry that is the one person you should trust and respect their opinion 
2) Privacy sure but from your post i see you do give her space and pricavy and the questions you are asking which are not obsurb she should of easily been willing to keep you in the loop or altleast talk to you about it?

questions of concern
1) why does she feel the need to hid whats going on with her ex - shes married to you right 
2) would she feel like your not acting as a team if things where reversed ?
3) she wants her son to move in yet refuses you the oppurtunity to get to know him ? who does that ???? in the capicity of marriage
4) why is she trying so hard to keep secrets - would she approve if reversed?
5) Married dosen't mean secrecy it means partnership otherwise why are you together ???

im not saying marriad people dont need space or even privacy( which they do) but as soon as there is effort on one part to intentionally hide things then the trust you have starts to develop cracks which is never good for a healthy relationship let alon a marriage 

look at infedility how it start the basic blue print the hiding the secrecy the getting made over simple things , the disconnect blah blah blah . you get my drift . her actions are similiar i'm not saying shes cheeating but why the intentionally secrecy towards the ex and her sons . i just cant wrap my head around it... usually people are especially transparent in this regard towards their new spouse!!


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

It may be your approach. Demanding to see her phone & all her communications seems controlling. You being included in all aspects of her life seems like a good foundation for a solid marriage

How well do you know the 20 year old? Can you have him over for dinner or maybe a weekend to spend time with the 13 year old? Establish a relationship with him so that you can possibly mentor him. Don't try to force things like the job but extol the benefits of hard work. 

Be more gentle in your communicatons with your wife about her relationship with her EX H. Set yourself up as a support system or outlet rather than another man who doesn't trust her to run her own life who wants to control her. Empower her. Ask what she wants. Brain storm how to achieve things.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> When you marry someone with children you take them on too. That's what many don't think about. My husband did that with mine and they often lived with us.
> Do you know why he doesnt want to live with his dad any more?


The adult sons father is starting the cycle of pushing out of the nest now that he has a new girlfriend. His fathers girlfriend is living in the house and doesn't give him the attention he expects.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


Her ex husband is her person to confide in about her current one?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I think is is time for a second divorce. You saw the red flags before marriage and ignored them. Sounds like she is using you for a safe haven for her and the younger son.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They have a right to privacy.


As someone who’s never been married, it makes perfect sense for you to stand up for the ”legal rights of privacy“ of his wife to converse as much as she wants about who-knows-what with her ex. I wouldn’t tolerate hidden communications of my wife with an ex for a minute.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Did I read it wrong or is she keeping communication between her ex and son secret? This is just about the son, someone she wants to bring into OP’s home. Someone he basically knows nothing about. She isn’t letting him know the problems that might be going on that could impact him if he allows him to live with them.

Then he has to deal with his wife keeping communication with her ex husband completely secret.

This isn’t about hey mom what’s up. Something is going on and she wants to bring the pile of crap into OP’s home with him not knowing a damn thing about it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> When you marry someone with children you take them on too. That's what many don't think about. My husband did that with mine and they often lived with us.
> Do you know why he doesnt want to live with his dad any more?


Hard to do when the wife is keeping everything about that one child a secret.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Did I read it wrong or is she keeping communication between her ex and son secret? This is just about the son, someone she wants to bring into OP’s home. Someone he basically knows nothing about. She isn’t letting him know the problems that might be going on that could impact him if he allows him to live with them.
> 
> Then he has to deal with his wife keeping communication with her ex husband completely secret.
> 
> This isn’t about hey mom what’s up. Something is going on and she wants to bring the pile of crap into OP’s home with him not knowing a damn thing about it.


Directly stated and accurate to what I am feeling.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Blue17Wind said:


> Directly stated and accurate to what I am feeling.


Keeping her communication with her ex secret from you is absolute horse-detritus. People can harp on about right to privacy until pigs actually autonomously fly, but this behavior has no place in a marriage.

If my wife has any questions about any communications I have with anybody, I open the mail or hand her the phone and let her read for herself and she [caveat with history, now] does the exact same thing for me.

Our friends know that if they are speaking to one of us, they are speaking to both of us as a family unit.

Privacy in a marriage is a breeding ground for secrecy in a marriage and in secrecy, like in darkness, nothing that is good is hatched, legal loop-holes be consigned to the infernal.

I cannot advise you how to change an established dynamic, because I fell victim to secrecy in my marriage because I failed to set the expectation of transparency from the start as well, but once (my wife had an EA) the fact that there was secrecy was discovered, I demanded complete transparency concerning all communication or she may choose to use the door.

You don't have the same motivation for demanding transparency of communication as I had, but I suggest you motivate and obtain full transparency concerning communications your wife is involved in.

Just to punctuate by repetition:

Privacy in a marriage is a breeding ground for secrecy in a marriage and in secrecy, like in darkness, nothing that is good is hatched.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


People should be allowed some privacy, but when you are married you absolutely give up some of that privacy. And that most definitely would include conversations with an ex-husband/ex-lover. It would be one thing to keep a sensitive conversation with a girlfriend private, but absolutely not with a previous romantic relationship. That is in essence an EA. And now she wants to bring an adult kids into the home without allowing her husband know the full story of what they've been talking about.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> When you marry someone with children you take them on too. That's what many don't think about. My husband did that with mine


In my book one is no longer a child when they are old enough to pick up a rifle to fight for their country and vote idiots into office.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

gr8ful1 said:


> As someone who’s never been married, it makes perfect sense for you to stand up for the ”legal rights of privacy“ of his wife to converse as much as she wants about who-knows-what with her ex. I wouldn’t tolerate hidden communications of my wife with an ex for a minute.


I'm just telling you what the law is. So believe whatever you want to believe. Spouses are not excluded from the law no matter how much you wish it was so.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm just telling you what the law is. So believe whatever you want to believe. Spouses are not excluded from the law no matter how much you wish it was so.


Everything has been codified to death, making marriage nothing but registering a business with the government. There is an aspect to marriage easily ignored though. More important than anything is that marriage is a relationship of the heart. This facet of marriage supersedes the legalities and in a meeting of hearts, the one size fits all codification is often nothing but an excuse to devalue the true nature of marriage to nothing more than a Monopoly Game with a set of written rules and a dice that falls right for the lucky and dooms those less fortunate.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think people are allowed some privacy. This was seriously just never an issue until cell phones came about. People need someone to confide in or vent to and they don't want everyone else seeing that.


Maybe, but in a marriage, that does not apply to an ex. She does not get to “confide“ in an ex husband, boyfriend, lover, etc. 

So no, she does not get to have private, confidential communications with her ex (or any other man for that matter) that her husband doesn’t get to see if he wants to.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm just telling you what the law is. So believe whatever you want to believe. Spouses are not excluded from the law no matter how much you wish it was so.


So what? That has nothing to do with appropriate expectations and boundaries within a marriage. 
My wife has a legal right to do a lot of things that I would not tolerate in my marriage. And vice versa.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

"Under Federal law, you are not permitted to view, read or listen to any communication on someone else’s phone or electronic device. So where does that leave someone who suspects their spouse is cheating. All of the signs are there, but they only need proof. Although the proof could help your divorce case, it could actually land you facing some criminal charges.
There is case law where spouses have actually been charged criminally when snooping through a spouse’s phone for proof of an affair. Be sure to consult with your attorney to find out where the boundaries are to ensure you don’t put yourself in legal trouble."





__





Is It Wrong or Actually Illegal To Snoop Through Your Spouse's Phone? Etiquette v. Respect v. Lawful


Is It Wrong or Actually Illegal To Snoop Through Your Spouse's Phone? Etiquette v. Respect v. Lawful



www.stuartnkaplanpa.com





It's a federal crime. Additionally, your state may have some added provisions. 

Get permission to snoop before you marry, people, if you are the suspicious type. Put it in writing. Not many people will want you looking at their private communications with friends, kids, etc. Exes are only one piece of the pie, the piece that bothers people the most. 

And always remember that you can't stop someone from cheating just by monitoring them like a child, so better just get to know them well first.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> "Under Federal law, you are not permitted to view, read or listen to any communication on someone else’s phone or electronic device. So where does that leave someone who suspects their spouse is cheating. All of the signs are there, but they only need proof. Although the proof could help your divorce case, it could actually land you facing some criminal charges.
> There is case law where spouses have actually been charged criminally when snooping through a spouse’s phone for proof of an affair. Be sure to consult with your attorney to find out where the boundaries are to ensure you don’t put yourself in legal trouble."
> 
> 
> ...


In a marriage, who cares? The law is counter to the spirit of the marriage and if my wife wants to apply that law (or the SA equivalent) to me, she knows where the door is.

It's because of all these law given "rights" that marriage has become as screwed up as it is and more and more people simply opt out because they don't care to play a game by the rules provided when instead they wanted to bond with another human being and build a loving family.

The state and their rules can take a flying leap if they think they can bring their rules into my bedroom and my wife with them the moment she chooses to stand on those "rights".

It's impossible to have a pre-nuptial agreement excluding every rule you wish to agree upon to not apply. Don't even go down that road.

ETA:

I know this attitude can get me into legal hot water, but there are so many laws and edicts these days that morally should never have existed or can be applied to a context where it was never intended to have jurisdiction that I have taken the attitude that the law has become nothing but an opinion with a gun and any law rooted in or stemming from Admiralty law is simply a game rule that can be changed with enough support and thus not morally binding.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> "Under Federal law, you are not permitted to view, read or listen to any communication on someone else’s phone or electronic device. So where does that leave someone who suspects their spouse is cheating. All of the signs are there, but they only need proof. Although the proof could help your divorce case, it could actually land you facing some criminal charges.
> There is case law where spouses have actually been charged criminally when snooping through a spouse’s phone for proof of an affair. Be sure to consult with your attorney to find out where the boundaries are to ensure you don’t put yourself in legal trouble."
> 
> 
> ...


If a husband and wife get to the point that the Feds are being called because one snooped in the other's phone the marriage has long been over. In a good and healthy marriage either spouse will freely give access to the other. If not, their marriage already has a fundamental flaw. A person with nothing to hide will not have an issue with it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Get permission to snoop before you marry, people, if you are the suspicious type. Put it in writing. Not many people will want you looking at their private communications with friends, kids, etc. Exes are only one piece of the pie, the piece that bothers people the most.
> 
> And always remember that you can't stop someone from cheating just by monitoring them like a child, so better just get to know them well first.


This. If you want that kind of absolute and total control over your wife, you need to make that clear BEFORE you marry. Coming in afterwards and demanding she sever all personal ties and not have any privacy is dishonest.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> "Under Federal law, you are not permitted to view, read or listen to any communication on someone else’s phone or electronic device. So where does that leave someone who suspects their spouse is cheating. All of the signs are there, but they only need proof. Although the proof could help your divorce case, it could actually land you facing some criminal charges.
> There is case law where spouses have actually been charged criminally when snooping through a spouse’s phone for proof of an affair. Be sure to consult with your attorney to find out where the boundaries are to ensure you don’t put yourself in legal trouble."
> 
> 
> ...


😆 🤣 😂 good luck getting the feds or any other agency to investigate snooping. Oh and in my state it's a felony to cheat on your spouse, a crime nobody has been charged with in decades. 

It's simple, he isn't suggesting snooping but if he feels he has to then he has a tough decision to make. I think he's setting himself up for a world of shyte if he let's this kid live with them, hell I think he's already in a world of shyte for marrying her knowing this is a problem. Also....having someone contribute or sign a contract as a condition of living in your house is a very bad idea in some states. By doing so you open yourself up to having to go through an eviction process, which in my state could take a VERY long time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If a husband and wife get to the point that the Feds are being called because one snooped in the other's phone the marriage has long been over. In a good and healthy marriage either spouse will freely give access to the other. If not, their marriage already has a fundamental flaw. A person with nothing to hide will not have an issue with it.


You know a lot of people have confidential information from their employer on the phones. I know all you single-minded people are only thinking about cheaters, but there is a lot of stuff you don't have any business looking at. I get confidential material on a regular basis and the files are stored on my email even after they are closed out. Those have all kinds of names and social security numbers and sensitive information it is illegal for me to allow anyone access to, so you can damn well be sure I am not going to leave my phone laying around unlocked or put up with a suspicious partner who thinks they have a right. A lot of people are going to have financial information belonging to their employer and things that could make their employer vulnerable.

Privacy has its purpose. This op asked a reasonable question before taking action.

Those of you who are quick to advise everyone to spy on their partners are irresponsible and encouraging them to fight a losing battle and not because the partner is cheating but because they themselves are insecure and lacking boundaries.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know a lot of people have confidential information from their employer on the phones. I know all you single-minded people are only thinking about cheaters, but there is a lot of stuff you don't have any business looking at. I get confidential material on a regular basis and the files are stored on my email even after they are closed out. Those have all kinds of names and social security numbers and sensitive information it is illegal for me to allow anyone access to, so you can damn well be sure I am not going to leave my phone laying around unlocked or put up with a suspicious partner who thinks they have a right. A lot of people are going to have financial information belonging to their employer and things that could make their employer vulnerable.
> 
> Privacy has its purpose. This op asked a reasonable question before taking action.
> 
> Those of you who are quick to advise everyone to spy on their partners are irresponsible and encouraging them to fight a losing battle and not because the partner is cheating but because they themselves are insecure and lacking boundaries.


I'm not advising spy, I'm advising that an open and transparent spouse would give access. 

And we aren't talking about work related material. This is conversations with and ex husband, so no comparison. 

Also, I and others I know that receive confidential info via smart phone are required to have a separate business only phone. If you are using that personal phone for sensitive information you are likely to be putting it at risk if using it for personal business.

But again, we aren't talking about this kind of information. We are talking about communication between a spouse and their ex.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know a lot of people have confidential information from their employer on the phones. I know all you single-minded people are only thinking about cheaters, but there is a lot of stuff you don't have any business looking at. I get confidential material on a regular basis and the files are stored on my email even after they are closed out. Those have all kinds of names and social security numbers and sensitive information it is illegal for me to allow anyone access to, so you can damn well be sure I am not going to leave my phone laying around unlocked or put up with a suspicious partner who thinks they have a right. A lot of people are going to have financial information belonging to their employer and things that could make their employer vulnerable.
> 
> Privacy has its purpose. This op asked a reasonable question before taking action.
> 
> Those of you who are quick to advise everyone to spy on their partners are irresponsible and encouraging them to fight a losing battle and not because the partner is cheating but because they themselves are insecure and lacking boundaries.


I have the same sort of information on my phone and computers, and it's illegal for anyone else to have access to it. My wife still has access to them (she doesn't look, but she could if she wanted). I have to change the passwords so often that she often doesn't know what the current one is but if for some reason I need her to put in the password (like while I'm driving), I give it to her.

Also, anything work-related cannot be accessed on my phone without a separate password and verification. So she (or any other spouse) could access my non-work related texts, etc. without having access to any work-related files, apps, messages, etc. 

P.S. Being open and transparent with your spouse is not the same thing as spying on them.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This. If you want that kind of absolute and total control over your wife, you need to make that clear BEFORE you marry. Coming in afterwards and demanding she sever all personal ties and not have any privacy is dishonest.


Again, not what we are talking about. We are talking about conversations between a spouse and their ex. No privacy from your current spouse should exist in that kind of circumstance.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not advising spy, I'm advising that an open and transparent spouse would give access.
> 
> And we aren't talking about work related material. This is conversations with and ex husband, so no comparison.
> 
> ...


If you want to look at a conversation between your spouse and another person, then you also need to have that agreement with the other person. That other person has a right to privacy.

And as far as you saying we're not talking about employment, you know perfectly well that one of the biggest reasons men want to look at their wife's phone is to see if they're doing something with their boss so yes we are talking about confidential communications.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you want to look at a conversation between your spouse and another person, then you also need to have that agreement with the other person. That other person has a right to privacy.


That is fine. They should know that the current spouse is going to have everything shared with them. It is a given when two people are married. There is zero reason to hide a conversation with an ex from your current spouse and the ex has to know that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> P.S. Being open and transparent with your spouse is not the same thing as spying on them.


Exactly!!!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know a lot of people have confidential information from their employer on the phones. I know all you single-minded people are only thinking about cheaters, but there is a lot of stuff you don't have any business looking at. I get confidential material on a regular basis and the files are stored on my email even after they are closed out. Those have all kinds of names and social security numbers and sensitive information it is illegal for me to allow anyone access to, so you can damn well be sure I am not going to leave my phone laying around unlocked or put up with a suspicious partner who thinks they have a right. A lot of people are going to have financial information belonging to their employer and things that could make their employer vulnerable.
> 
> Privacy has its purpose. This op asked a reasonable question before taking action.
> 
> Those of you who are quick to advise everyone to spy on their partners are irresponsible and encouraging them to fight a losing battle and not because the partner is cheating but because they themselves are insecure and lacking boundaries.


No one said that OP’s wife was cheating on him that I saw. She is just being disrespectful as hell to him.

She wants him to take care of her kids because their dad is a dead beat. She refuses to give any details of what is going on. It sounds like she married him for his check book only. I thought marriage was a partnership where the couple was honest about things and helped one another.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is fine. They should know that the current spouse is going to have everything shared with them. It is a given when two people are married. There is zero reason to hide a conversation with an ex from your current spouse and the ex has to know that.


No, it's not a given. Believe it or not, there are people with trusting happy relationships out there.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's not a given. Believe it or not, there are people with trusting happy relationships out there.


People can have happy, trusting relationships AND transparency.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This. If you want that kind of absolute and total control over your wife, you need to make that clear BEFORE you marry. Coming in afterwards and demanding she sever all personal ties and not have any privacy is dishonest.


So, the expectation that your wife (or husband for that matter) doesn’t get to have private, confidential conversations with ex spouses / lovers, that he’s not allowed to see - is exerting “absolute and total control” over her? 

Should she also be able to have a private meet-up with ex husband / boyfriend for lunch, or drinks, etc? As long as she says it’s platonic?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's not a given. Believe it or not, there are people with trusting happy relationships out there.


Yep, wife and I trust each other 100%. We have absolutely nothing to hide and are completely open with all conversations on our phones, emails, etc. Nothing to hide.

We are even straight up when we plan a surprise or something like that. I'll say something like, please don't look at the texts between me and X, we are planning a surprise. Everything is above board and open. And she isn't on my phone because she is snooping. It is just that we share everything and sometimes she'll grab phone to do something. I truly love how reassuring it is that we hide nothing from each other.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Blue17Wind said:


> My wife (45 female) of three years keeps her first marriage very guarded and I (53 male) am only given access in small table spoons any information about her during that time period. I accepted this in our relationship and normally brush away the little lies here and there that she creates to divert the conversation. My concern now is her lack of trust to allow me to read messages between her oldest son and her ex-husband. Both people I do not trust and both continue to abuse her and take advantage of her kindness. I have taken on the responsibility of raising her younger son. She wants her adult son to come live with us and I don't like this at all, since I know so little about this adult child personality and because she limits me by restricting me from her communication with him. She states those conversations are private. In my mind, it feels more like she is keeping secretes.
> Other then that, I have no reservations with my wife to have full access to all parts of my life without a second though. I feel, I should change all my passwords and restrict sharing anything about my adult children and our conversations. I know this sounds childish.
> Am I just being insecure and partially controlling wanting to read their correspondence between them without it being filtered by my wife?


Nothing you wife communicates or is involved in should be kept separate from you...either you are married or not. As far as adult son coming to live in your house...hell to the no. Wife already does not treat you as man of the house. When adult son shows up, he will not either. It will be he and him mom against you. She is hiding something...bet my ass on it. Something is up...I would not trust her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> People have a legal right to privacy. That's why we have privacy laws and why putting trackers and sneaking into other people's phones is illegal. That's why tampering with mail is illegal. If the law thinks it's a good idea, there's a good reason for it. Legally both parties would have to consent to sharing private communication. If there is this much suspicion in a relationship, probably best to just leave the relationship. No one wants to live like that.


Right with a wife being that secretive with communicating with her ex hubby I would tell her she can go back to him. Either you are one or not.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I would actually argue that the marriage where partners feel the need to lock their phone and not share the pin with their spouse is the one with trust issues.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> So, the expectation that your wife (or husband for that matter) doesn’t get to have private, confidential conversations with ex spouses / lovers, that he’s not allowed to see - is exerting “absolute and total control” over her?
> 
> Should she also be able to have a private meet-up with ex husband / boyfriend for lunch, or drinks, etc? As long as she says it’s platonic?


If you don't trust your spouse not to cheat, then maybe you shouldn't marry them. If you suspect she has begun cheating, deal with THAT. Expecting a wife to have zero expectations of any sort of privacy in any aspect of her life, especially when that isn't going to be reciprocated, is something that should be discussed prior to marriage. If your wife is not allowed to have friends or private conversations with her friends, she should be able to choose to enter that kind of situation. 

Ongoing relationships with exes should be discussed prior to marriage as well. If you expect your spouse to not have contact with prior relationships, say so in the beginning. It was a deal breaker for me, I said so prior to getting married, and I have zero contact with any of my exes because that's what I asked of him. Worked it out before we got married, boundary set, no issues. Easy-peasy. If one of my exes showed up and wanted to talk to me, he can say whatever he has to say in front of my husband. It's not about me being "allowed" to do things, because my husband isn't my boss nor is he my superior. It's about two adults being respectful to one another. If I found out he was seeing an ex on the side, I'd deal with it like I would any affair. I'm not going to monitor his phone or put a VAR in his car or start following him around. I'd just file.

Imagine if your wife came to you and said you were no longer allowed to have any private conversations and every single exchange you have with every single person you know will be monitored by her. You'd think she was a loon, right? I sure would, that's nutty. You're an adult, and no adult wants total control over another adult for altruistic reasons. Honestly, if you came on here and said your wife wanted that, I'd tell you to talk to an attorney because she's probably cheating.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This. If you want that kind of absolute and total control over your wife, you need to make that clear BEFORE you marry. Coming in afterwards and demanding she sever all personal ties and not have any privacy is dishonest.


Yeah, right. Typical anti male bashing crap without any basis at all to make such statements. Some times I wonder why a lot of women that think and have this type of perceptions towards men are marry to a man at all.

Just like any other person, male or female in a relationship we all have a right to expect at least a modicum of transparency. My opinion to OP is that he marry a woman that wanted him for what he could provide to her and her children, period.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If you don't trust your spouse not to cheat, then maybe you shouldn't marry them. If you suspect she has begun cheating, deal with THAT. Expecting a wife to have zero expectations of any sort of privacy in any aspect of her life, especially when that isn't going to be reciprocated, is something that should be discussed prior to marriage. If your wife is not allowed to have friends or private conversations with her friends, she should be able to choose to enter that kind of situation.
> 
> Ongoing relationships with exes should be discussed prior to marriage as well. If you expect your spouse to not have contact with prior relationships, say so in the beginning. It was a deal breaker for me, I said so prior to getting married, and I have zero contact with any of my exes because that's what I asked of him. Worked it out before we got married, boundary set, no issues. Easy-peasy. If one of my exes showed up and wanted to talk to me, he can say whatever he has to say in front of my husband. It's not about me being "allowed" to do things, because my husband isn't my boss nor is he my superior. It's about two adults being respectful to one another. If I found out he was seeing an ex on the side, I'd deal with it like I would any affair. I'm not going to monitor his phone or put a VAR in his car or start following him around. I'd just file.
> 
> Imagine if your wife came to you and said you were no longer allowed to have any private conversations and every single exchange you have with every single person you know will be monitored by her. You'd think she was a loon, right? I sure would, that's nutty. You're an adult, and no adult wants total control over another adult for altruistic reasons. Honestly, if you came on here and said your wife wanted that, I'd tell you to talk to an attorney because she's probably cheating.


Of course it is reciprocated. No one, and I mean NO ONE, has said this should be one sided, ever.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You’re completely twisting the point and creating a hyperbolic strawman to poke at.

No one said he should be fanatically monitoring all of her conversations daily.

What was said, is that it is a perfectly reasonable expectation that he does not have to tolerate his wife having private communications with her ex, that he’s not allowed to see. 
And he has every right to tell his wife that he expects access her communications with her ex, if/when he wants. 

And if that’s not acceptable to her, then they have a big problem. He can set whatever boundary/expectation he wants to, even if it was not discussed prior to marriage. 
And if having private communications with her ex (that her husband isn’t allowed to see) is more important to her than her current husband/marriage, and then she’s free to make that choice.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> You’re completely twisting the point and creating a hyperbolic strawman to poke at.
> 
> No one said he should be fanatically monitoring all of her conversations daily.
> 
> ...


What's crazy is I don't disagree with this, because you're talking about having adult conversations with the wife and telling her that something isn't ok. I feel like your post was a hyperbolic strawman, so maybe we're just misunderstanding each other. I will walk away.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I don’t think the OP is looking to hack his wife’s phone, laptop etc…he is simply questioning if he’s being unreasonable to request that his wife be more open and honest about the conversations between her and her ex, especially if they involve her other son coming to live with them. From that point of view, no, he’s not being unreasonable.

It sounds like he’s being taken advantage of to be honest. There’s definitely some back and forth between his wife and her ex about their kid that is to be expected, but it seems like he’s the odd guy out in his own marriage.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's not a given. Believe it or not, there are people with trusting happy relationships out there.


Yes but there is the saying "locks keep honest people honest".


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Blue17Wind said:


> He is about to complete his sophomore year. My wife works part time from home. This is a choice I agreed too. I knew that my stepson would need extra support and attention to adjust to his new family structure and for his mom to help with his studies.


Wow, that is very loving of you to enable your wife to work part time so she can be there for her kid with special needs. You would think that being that understanding would cause her to be 100 % on team @Blue17Wind but if she’s trying to keep her communication with her ex private, it would understandably make you feel like she’s not completely with you. An ex that rejects his own son, should earn the ire of the mother but it’s almost like she still wants to keep dibs on him. Could she still be hung up on him? 

Now that her ex has a new girlfriend living with him and he wants to dump his oldest son too. He gets privacy with his girl but you get none due to his kids? You better find out if this is really what you want to continue to sign up for.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I don’t think the OP is looking to hack his wife’s phone, laptop etc…he is simply questioning if he’s being unreasonable to request that his wife be more open and honest about the conversations between her and her ex, especially if they involve her other son coming to live with them. From that point of view, no, he’s not being unreasonable.
> 
> It sounds like he’s being taken advantage of to be honest. There’s definitely some back and forth between his wife and her ex about their kid that is to be expected, but it seems like he’s the odd guy out in his own marriage.


Perfectly stated.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Blue17Wind said:


> Perfectly stated.


OK, so you’ve had some time to discuss, get outside perspective, assess, analyze and come to some conclusions.
The question is, now what are you going to DO?


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> OK, so you’ve had some time to discuss, get outside perspective, assess, analyze and come to some conclusions.
> The question is, now what are you going to DO?


Discussed/confronted my wife this morning about the situation. I was direct in that her oldest son is a stranger to me and that I do not want a stranger living in our house. I was clear that she needed to take ownership of my position since she is the one that kept me from building any kind of a relationship with him. I put her in a reverse position, in that how would she like it if I allowed one of my adult nieces to live with us that she knew nothing of. In regards to her ex husband, I was very clear that I expect to be notified and be apart of the conversations when she does communicate with him. I wanted the same level of transparency that from her that I give. She heard my words and became a bit defensive. But in the end I could tell she was processing. Time will tell if she took my words to heart or not. It was clear to her the lack of respect she has shown me in our marraige will not be tolerated. We are either a team in life or not.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Blue17Wind said:


> Tje oldest son lives with his father. The father only wanted the oldest child. His younger son who lives with us has a learning handicap and was easily rejected by his father and his family. No job. Refuses to even look for part time work.


Hell no he should not be allowed to come there.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Blue17Wind said:


> Time will tell if she took my words to heart or not.


So, what will your action plan be if she doesn't take your words to heart?


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

Move to Texas where alimony can only be, no greater then, 50% of the time married. There is no way I could live like this. Constantly second guessing her as well myself. Would feel terrible for my stepson (13). Even though he is built a little backwards,. We have built a father/son relationship over the past 4 years and my adult kids included him in their conversations and some game play.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This. If you want that kind of absolute and total control over your wife, you need to make that clear BEFORE you marry. Coming in afterwards and demanding she sever all personal ties and not have any privacy is dishonest.


Who wants to control anything by being transparent and expecting the same in return? It's simple give and take on a 100% mutual basis and on equal footing. People are so hung up on control when it is there is no trace of it. In certain things I had to put my foot down and yes, take leadership, but my wife is not a prisoner. If she cannot live with the things I am inflexible about, I cannot control her to acquiesce, she has the choice to exist stage-left if she so wishes.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Who wants to control anything by being transparent and expecting the same in return? It's simple give and take on a 100% mutual basis and on equal footing. People are so hung up on control when it is there is no trace of it. In certain things I had to put my foot down and yes, tale leadership, but my wife is not a prisoner. If she cannot live with the things I am inflexible about, I cannot control her to acquiesce, she has the choice to exist stage-left if she so wishes.


****ing misogynist


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Who wants to control anything by being transparent and expecting the same in return? It's simple give and take on a 100% mutual basis and on equal footing. People are so hung up on control when it is there is no trace of it. In certain things I had to put my foot down and yes, tale leadership, but my wife is not a prisoner. If she cannot live with the things I am inflexible about, I cannot control her to acquiesce, she has the choice to exist stage-left if she so wishes.


It’s better to make those things known prior to marriage. My H and I didn’t have to because it wouldn’t occur to either of us that he would treat me with such disrespect. My journals are private. There’s nothing on them that would upset him, but they’re my private thoughts. My friends text me things they don’t want made public; not cheating or anything like that, just embarrassing, private things. If my H had said I wasn’t allowed any privacy prior to marriage, I wouldn’t have married him. If he came in now and said I had to show him all my texts, I’d stop texting or writing in my journals and destroy them until the divorce is final. It’s not about hiding things, it’s about having some respect for me. I wouldn’t expect him to let me read all his texts, and if he came on here and said his wife wanted access to his phone you’d tell him to “lead” the marriage or some nonsense and nothing he does or says is her business.

That said, if there’s been cheating, everything changes. And if the spouse suddenly became weirdly protective of the phone, that changes things as well. I’m not someone interested in reconciliation but once someone has proven they can’t be trusted they have no right to expect to be trusted. I’ve not given him a reason to check all my texts or read my journals or monitor my phone calls. At this point it would be a sign of disrespect.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s better to make those things known prior to marriage. My H and I didn’t have to because it wouldn’t occur to either of us that he would treat me with such disrespect. My journals are private. There’s nothing on them that would upset him, but they’re my private thoughts. My friends text me things they don’t want made public; not cheating or anything like that, just embarrassing, private things. If my H had said I wasn’t allowed any privacy prior to marriage, I wouldn’t have married him. If he came in now and said I had to show him all my texts, I’d stop texting or writing in my journals and destroy them until the divorce is final. It’s not about hiding things, it’s about having some respect for me. I wouldn’t expect him to let me read all his texts, and if he came on here and said his wife wanted access to his phone you’d tell him to “lead” the marriage or some nonsense and nothing he does or says is her business.
> 
> That said, if there’s been cheating, everything changes. And if the spouse suddenly became weirdly protective of the phone, that changes things as well. I’m not someone interested in reconciliation but once someone has proven they can’t be trusted they have no right to expect to be trusted. I’ve not given him a reason to check all my texts or read my journals or monitor my phone calls. At this point it would be a sign of disrespect.


However she was giving him a reason to be suspicious of her and ex activities and plotting. That was her totally disrespecting her husband by being secretive with her ex hubby.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s better to make those things known prior to marriage. My H and I didn’t have to because it wouldn’t occur to either of us that he would treat me with such disrespect. My journals are private. There’s nothing on them that would upset him, but they’re my private thoughts. My friends text me things they don’t want made public; not cheating or anything like that, just embarrassing, private things. If my H had said I wasn’t allowed any privacy prior to marriage, I wouldn’t have married him. If he came in now and said I had to show him all my texts, I’d stop texting or writing in my journals and destroy them until the divorce is final. It’s not about hiding things, it’s about having some respect for me. I wouldn’t expect him to let me read all his texts, *and if he came on here and said his wife wanted access to his phone you’d tell him to “lead” the marriage or some nonsense and nothing he does or says is her business.*


Given how good many of your posts are, I am always astounded when you make comments like this, and you do it a lot. The bolded is the EXACT opposite of what would be and is said here. The advice for this kind of thing does not change based on gender. Not ever. Dozens of times women come here with the same concerns of infidelity and a spouse keeping their phone very guarded, and they get the exact same advice the men get. Please stop making **** up. It ruins the good comments you have. 



TexasMom1216 said:


> That said, if there’s been cheating, everything changes. And if the spouse suddenly became weirdly protective of the phone, that changes things as well. I’m not someone interested in reconciliation but once someone has proven they can’t be trusted they have no right to expect to be trusted.


This is spot on and it is exactly what is advised here and never changes based on gender. You have this perfect comment, but it is prefaced in the prior paragraph with a total load of crap that distracts the rest.



TexasMom1216 said:


> I’ve not given him a reason to check all my texts or read my journals or monitor my phone calls. At this point it would be a sign of disrespect.


Bit of a catch 22 here. If you haven't cheated you will be disrespected if he suspects it for some reason and looks at your texts. If you are cheating you will act like you are disrespected if he looks at your texts. How do you resolve that?

Take the guy who has a wife that cheated on him 20 years ago. He had suspicions she was cheating and he perused her journals and got confirmation. Did he disrespect her by invading her privacy?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> and if he came on here and said his wife wanted access to his phone you’d tell him to “lead” the marriage or some nonsense and nothing he does or says is her business.


You seem to have some completely warped perception of what male leadership is in a relationship.

Yes, men are often told that they need to lead their marriage, especially when they’ve been passive, weak and useless in their marriage. But leadership does not mean “I am Man and you will obey me while I go off and do whatever I want.”
That’s ridiculous and not what anyone ever suggests on here.
And if that’s the kind of scenario that you keep flashing to and triggering on - that is your issue to work through, because it’s not representative of what anyone is ever saying on here.

The point that everyone has been talking about on this thread (that you keep ignoring or disregarding), is that it’s about mutual openness and access to devices and communications. No one has ever advocated for some kind of unilateral master / slave scenario here. You’re making up nonsense and projecting it onto this conversation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I see two different situations here. One is her ex and the other is her older son.

I think that husband and wife should be very open with each other about everything. So to me looking at each other's phones should be no problem. That's as long as neither of us are following each other around snooping constantly because of lack of trust. At that point it would be the lack of trust that is the issue.

How often does your wife communicate with her ex? Is she texting? talking on the phone? You say you want to be including in her communications with her ex. What does this mean? Do you want be right there with her any time she talks to him, texts him, etc. so you can hear or read everything in real time? Or do you just want to know when she talks/texts him and want to know the topic of discussion?

How often do you communicate with your ex? Do you include your wife in all of your contact with your ex?

Now about your oldest step-son. Has your wife told you why she has kept him away from you? Is this his choice?

I don't think that here is anything wrong with your wife not telling you everything she discusses with her older son. That's every different from her communications with her ex.

Are you interested in building a relationship with him? My take on it is that it would be a good idea since he's going to be part of your life for as long as you are married to his mother, and that just might be the rest of your life. He does need to be encouraged to get a part-time job. You just might be a very good influence on him. There's also the military. If he joined it he would be independent and after an enlistment have the GI Bill to finish his college. 

What degree field is he working towards?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s better to make those things known prior to marriage. My H and I didn’t have to because it wouldn’t occur to either of us that he would treat me with such disrespect. My journals are private. There’s nothing on them that would upset him, but they’re my private thoughts. My friends text me things they don’t want made public; not cheating or anything like that, just embarrassing, private things. If my H had said I wasn’t allowed any privacy prior to marriage, I wouldn’t have married him. If he came in now and said I had to show him all my texts, I’d stop texting or writing in my journals and destroy them until the divorce is final. It’s not about hiding things, it’s about having some respect for me. I wouldn’t expect him to let me read all his texts, and if he came on here and said his wife wanted access to his phone you’d tell him to “lead” the marriage or some nonsense and nothing he does or says is her business.
> 
> That said, if there’s been cheating, everything changes. And if the spouse suddenly became weirdly protective of the phone, that changes things as well. I’m not someone interested in reconciliation but once someone has proven they can’t be trusted they have no right to expect to be trusted. I’ve not given him a reason to check all my texts or read my journals or monitor my phone calls. At this point it would be a sign of disrespect.


It is impossible to predict every aspect of life prior to marriage. Working crystal balls exist only in fairy-tales. Yes, you agree on many things prior to marrying, but there are other things outside of infidelity that changes the dynamic in a marriage as well and forces the status-quo to change, sometimes subtly but the changes can be drastic as well. Any change has a subjective impact on the people it affects.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> It is impossible to predict every aspect of life prior to marriage. Working crystal balls exist only in fairy-tales. Yes, you agree on many things prior to marry, but there are other things outside of infidelity that changes the dynamic in a marriage as well and forces the status-quo to change, sometimes subtly but the changes can be drastic as well. Any change has a subjective impact on the people it affects.


This is very fair and true. Things can and often do change in marriage. It would preferable (for me, as a woman) if the woman had some say in those changes but I realize in many parts of the world and even in my own country that is often not the case. I do tend to be defensive around issues regarding the assumption that all women cannot be trusted because I have tried very hard in my life to deserve trust and respect. I’m sure that’s not something everyone can understand.

This is also a threadjack so I will stop here.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is very fair and true. Things can and often do change in marriage. It would preferable (for me, as a woman) if the woman had some say in those changes but I realize in many parts of the world and even in my own country that is often not the case. I do tend to be defensive around issues regarding the assumption that all women cannot be trusted because I have tried very hard in my life to deserve trust and respect. I’m sure that’s not something everyone can understand.
> 
> This is also a threadjack so I will stop here.


This is not a female empowerment vs patriarchy or other such tomfoolery discussion. This is a discussion on the lack of transparency being unacceptable in a marriage and the assertion that secrecy about communication especially after a spouse has expressed their need to be included in the communication is down-right disrespectful, regardless of sex/gender/[whatever NWO term is the flavor of the day, with attached weight and degree of victimhood (perceived or real)].


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> Yes but there is the saying "locks keep honest people honest".


Never heard that one and never want to.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Never heard that one and never want to.


It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.

That said, asking for an adult child to move in and shutting your husband out of any and all communications regarding that decision is the other side of that same coin. She can't realistically expect him to blindly agree to all this. 

Sounds like divorce is the best option. He married her without realizing her kids would be in the picture. Either she was hiding it from him or he just assumed he could toss the kids aside once they were married. My money is on door #1, I don't think she was honest about how much responsibility she would expect him to help her shoulder for her adult children.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.
> 
> That said, asking for an adult child to move in and shutting your husband out of any and all communications regarding that decision is the other side of that same coin. She can't realistically expect him to blindly agree to all this.
> 
> Sounds like divorce is the best option. He married her without realizing her kids would be in the picture. Either she was hiding it from him or he just assumed he could toss the kids aside once they were married. My money is on door #1, I don't think she was honest about how much responsibility she would expect him to help her shoulder for her adult children.


It does sound like she's trying to take advantage, and it could be the end of the relationship because that's her child and she may just be of a mind that her offspring are always welcome wherever she is even if they're adults. I sure hope they talked about this before they married. 

And which makes me wonder if the ex that is being talked about is his father because if so then of course they're going to be talking. It's an unfortunate reality.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I know my friend who has a grown daughter would throw anyone aside if that daughter said she wanted to move in. She would dump them like a sack of skunks if they didn't go along with it. And might anyway if she anticipated there being any conflicts or hardships for her daughter living together with the other person.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know my friend who has a grown daughter would throw anyone aside if that daughter said she wanted to move in. She would dump them like a sack of skunks if they didn't go along with it. And my anyway if she anticipated there being any conflicts or hardships for her daughter living together with the other person.


Same. But you know, I would tell any man that he's my child, and he will always come first. The right man would consider that a positive thing, but regardless, as is the case in just everything, you have to be totally honest with people before you marry them. We don't live in times where children are marrying in their teens just so they can have sex; adults are making educated and informed choices. You can't guard against everything, and of course there will always be people who lie, but you gotta do your best.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know my friend who has a grown daughter would throw anyone aside if that daughter said she wanted to move in. She would dump them like a sack of skunks if they didn't go along with it. And my anyway if she anticipated there being any conflicts or hardships for her daughter living together with the other person.


Then she would be a terrible relationship partner and is basically not suited for a serious relationship/marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Then she would be a terrible relationship partner and is basically not suited for a serious relationship/marriage.


Wrongo. She had a successful long marriage before her husband got a head injury and went completely crazy, ran off with a woman and ended up degenerating and dying in a pile of trash In an apartment because his brain injury changed his personality, leaving my friend to raise her daughter alone.

So I wouldn't say that she was the big fail in that relationship.

And the guy she's with now is a cheapskate who would like to talk her into selling her home so that "they" would have money because he hasn't worked a full-time job in 40 years that I know of, drives her car when possible because he hasn't bought one since 1968, hoards cats that he doesn't spay and neuter or take to the vet.

She's a nice hard-working responsible person who, in contrast, turns out to be a much better bargain than either of the men she's had in her life.

That daughter is her only child. She worked and worked to put her through college. No one is going to compare in importance, and her daughter is much more responsible and enterprising than the men in her life too, so I can see why she might make that choice if it came to that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That daughter is her only child. She worked and worked to put her through college. No one is going to compare in importance, and her daughter is much more responsible and enterprising then the men in her life too, so I can see why she might make that choice it came to that.


No decent man who cares about anyone on earth other than himself would even want to associate with a woman who immediately abandons her children for some guy.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No decent man who cares about anyone on earth other than himself would even want to associate with a woman who immediately abandons her children for some guy.


And no decent, self-respecting man would ever get into a serious relationship with a woman whose attitude was “If my grown adult child ever wants to move into our home with us, she is welcome to and you have no say in the matter. And if you don’t like it you can F off.”

And again with the hyperbolic projection.
The example given had nothing to do with the women refusing to abandon her child for some guy.
It was an attitude that her adult child could move in whenever she wants and any man in her life better just deal with it or F off.
Yeah, doesn’t work that way if you’re married or otherwise sharing a home.
That’s called not a good relationship partner.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> And no decent, self-respecting man would ever get into a serious relationship with a woman whose attitude was “If my grown adult child ever wants to move into our home with us, she is welcome to and you have no say in the matter. And if you don’t like it you can F off.”
> 
> And again with the hyperbolic projection.
> The example given had nothing to do with the women refusing to abandon her child for some guy.
> ...


A lot of men and women take it for granted that their children will always be welcome in their home, and that's just not something you should take for granted when you're no longer living with their father or mother. It's just a case of something you have to talk about before you marry. I think too many people get married without getting enough information on each other or ignoring it after they do get it thinking they'll somehow slip out of it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Wrongo. She had a successful long marriage before her husband got a head injury and went completely crazy, ran off with a woman and ended up degenerating and dying in a pile of trash In an apartment because his brain injury changed his personality, leaving my friend to raise her daughter alone.
> 
> So I wouldn't say that she was the big fail in that relationship.
> 
> ...


So apparently, her problem is picking crappy men.

Obviously, anyone’s child is going to come before a new relationship. And probably in some ways, before a long-term relationship partner. That’s normal and expected, and not problematic for a relationship.

What’s not normal, and not conducive to a healthy, respectful relationship - is the attitude that my grown child is free to move in with us whenever she wants, and you have no say in the matter. And if you don’t like it, get out. 
That’s completely disrespectful and not a partnership.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think sometimes you run into a problem if the couple actually do both equally own the place together. It becomes kind of like the old situation when you're single when you have roommates and they think because they're paying rent that they should be able to have anyone over night anytime they want sharing their room with no regard that it's adding a whole person to the household. 

But again it's something that should have been talked about before marriage.

My friend's husband was a pretty good guy until he got a head injury. That was just bad luck. The second one is in her life because he's super persistent and she has a little problem saying no but she's learning.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of men and women take it for granted that their children will always be welcome in their home


That’s a very bad thing to take for granted, as I suspect many (if not most) spouses would not be OK with their partner’s grown children moving back in with them, if that was not the agreement / expectation from the beginning.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> That’s a very bad thing to take for granted, as I suspect many (if not most) spouses would not be OK with their partner’s grown children moving back in with them, if that was not the agreement / expectation from the beginning.


But you know how a lot of people assume that other people are more like them or agree with them more than they do. They consider themselves normal and expect other people to think the way they do to some extent. Communication.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.


Really? And here I was thinking the word "people" was gender neutral, after all the post I commented on also contained the word "people".


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

It’s interesting how some people feel this husband is out of line to expect a reasonable amount of transparency and mutual respect in the marriage if it was not detailed in writing, signed in triplicate, before 14 notaries, and sealed with blood… his of course.…. And anyone who disagrees is a controlling woman hater….

….but if she wants to be a mostly stay at home mom raising her kid (not his), then have her adult son move in to also be supported by him, he should shut up and take it in to perpetuity…. Because he needs to understand that’s just how some moms are…. Oh AND…. anyone who disagrees is a controlling man hater.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> That’s a very bad thing to take for granted, as I suspect many (if not most) spouses would not be OK with their partner’s grown children moving back in with them, if that was not the agreement / expectation from the beginning.


This was exactly our case when dating. We both shared dreams of travel after I retire. I was willing to put off retirement until my stepson graduates from high school. We both then planned to sell off main home and possibly buy two smaller homes in different climate zones after a few years of travel. I agreed that youngest son would need to be set up with some kind of accommodations and career type training. She shared the same dream with me. All three of my grown children or in careers with the youngest of my children finishing up a masters program at CalPoly. Again I agreed and realized my stepson will need support and our plans are on hold until he graduates. What I did not recognize was the fact she would bring her adult child into the house without allowing me to build a relationship and be a partner in their communications and excluded in there world. If I suddenly have this stranger in our house and he continues to not pull his own weight, his brother might end up being the same and our shared dreams before marriage were created in smoke. Her adult child has a perfectly capable father to wipe his butt. Just like my biological adult children have me and know my plans for the future when I retire. Each are allowed to visit and I will help financial to establish their independence. I understand having the same support for her children. But to exclude me from conversation with her adult son and ex-husband that paints a picture of "our" retirement plan changing for the non-emergency care of her oldest son, is simply unacceptable and unfair in our marriage.
After my original post and the comments left by all you wonderful people, it is now even clearer that I am not the one that changed or tried to manipulate the relationship after the wedding.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Blue17Wind said:


> This was exactly our case when dating. We both shared dreams of travel after I retire. I was willing to put off retirement until my stepson graduates from high school. We both then planned to sell off main home and posdible by two smaller homes in different climate zones after a few years of travel. I agreed that youngest son would need to be set up with some kind of accommodations and career type training. She shared the same dream with me. All three of my grown children or in careers with the youngest of my children finishing up a masters program at CalPoly. Again I agreed and resized my stepson needs support and our plans are on hold until he graduates. What I did not recognize was the fact she would bring her adult child into the house without allowing me to build a relationship and be a partner in their communications and excluded in there world. If I suddenly have this stranger in our house and he continues to not pull his own weight, his brother might end up being the same and our shared dreams before marraige were created in smoke. Her adult child has a perfectly capable father to wipe is butt. Just like my biological adult children have me and know my plans for the future when I retire. Each are allowed to visit and I will help financial to establish their independence. I understand having the same support for her children. But to exclude my from conversation with her adult son and ex-husband that paint a picture of "our" retirement plan changing for the non-emergency care of her oldest son, is simply unacceptable and unfair in our marraige.
> After my original post and the comments left by all you wonderful people, it is now even clearer that I am not the one that changed or tried to manipulate the relationship after the wedding.


I think if you sat down and discussed your predicament with a competent attorney you would find them telling you not to proceed. As others have said, she has a right to her privacy, but you sir have the right to not have to put up with her, financially or otherwise. Let her keep her secrets, there are good women out there who will reciprocate transparency and offer mutual respect.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Generalization but is the truth. At the time, as a man that had no kids, but knowing how women are when it comes to "their" children and expectations of their new partner to put up or dish out with her and her children. Before I married the first and second time, I never took a woman with children seriously for any type of commitment other than casual sex. I always told myself: Never marry a woman with children. Too much stress raising a child that belongs to another man. When I married the second time, I was 42 an playing the field knowing that at that age chances were small to find a woman with not children. I got lucky, met my wife when she was 33 and no children; otherwise, I would still be single. My advice to men: don't marry women with children, casually date them only, unless you have children also; which kind of sucks for a lot of weak, mousy men, because the woman will chew them and their kids to favor her and her kids well being. Generalization? yes, I know, because there are women out there that will take the step children as their own, but my experience in life tells me that chances are that most guys won't get one of those women. 

This is what OP is seeing now. Taking care of a woman and offspring that is not his, and now he's being arm-wrestled to take on a second offspring not his against his wishes.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Why is there an argument about a wife or husband having secret conversations with their ex husband/wife. This should be obvious.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of men and women take it for granted that their children will always be welcome in their home, and that's just not something you should take for granted when you're no longer living with their father or mother. It's just a case of something you have to talk about before you marry. I think too many people get married without getting enough information on each other or ignoring it after they do get it thinking they'll somehow slip out of it.


There is a big difference with the child being 18 or younger compared to them being in college. Especially when the parent has kept them away from their new partner.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> There is a big difference with the child being 18 or younger and them being in college. Especially when the parent has kept them away from their new partner.


Yes, and these days the lines are getting blurred and the age is extended way out because a lot of these young adults are choosing to live at home where they used to couldn't wait to get out.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, and these days the lines are getting blurred and the age is extended way out because a lot of these young adults are choosing to live at home where they used to couldn't wait to get out.


True. My kids are home still and in college/ working full time. 

The question is this, the dad had complete custody of the older son. Why is he being kick out of his dad’s home?

Is he a trouble maker?

Is he violent?

Is he on drugs?

Is he a thief?

What is happening to cause OP’s wife to keep the older son a complete secret from him their entire relationship?

It’s OP’s home also, he has the right to know what he is getting into if he allows the older son to live there.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> True. My kids are home still and in college/ working full time.
> 
> The question is this, the dad had complete custody of the older son. Why is he being kick out of his dad’s home?
> 
> ...


Yes and I haven't kept completely up with this thread but I don't know how old the adult son is. His mother would probably wait on him hand and foot. But usually it's just about money.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes and I haven't kept completely up with this thread but I don't know how old the adult son is. His mother would probably wait on him hand and foot. But usually it's just about money.


I think he is 19 or 20 and in college.

How is someone in a relationship for 4+ years and their spouse kept one of there kids a complete mystery.

I can’t wrap my mind around that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes and I haven't kept completely up with this thread but I don't know how old the adult son is. His mother would probably wait on him hand and foot. But usually it's just about money.


Sadly, yes. It blows my mind she kept her son a secret, I can’t go 5 minutes without mentioning mine. And I would wait on him, so yeah, she’ll dote on him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> I think he is 19 or 20 and in college.
> 
> How is someone in a relationship for 4+ years and their spouse kept one of there kids a complete mystery.
> 
> I can’t wrap my mind around that.


Well he's really not too old to consider letting come home especially if he's going back to school. But that is very mysterious that she's gone from no contact to moving him in. Something isn't right.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well he's really not too old to consider letting come home especially if he's going back to school. But that is very mysterious that she's gone from no contact to moving him in. Something isn't right.


From my understanding she talked with her son quite often. Also that OP has met him and few time and the son didn’t want anything to do with OP.

OP’s wife never talks to him about the older son or what the conversations are about. She is the same way with her ex husband. She is telling op that it is private conversations with her ex and none of his business.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes and I haven't kept completely up with this thread but I don't know how old the adult son is. His mother would probably wait on him hand and foot. But usually it's just about money.


OP said that the adult son is 20, finishing up his sophomore year at school.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> From my understanding she talked with her son quite often. Also that OP has met him and few time and the son didn’t want anything to do with OP.
> 
> OP’s wife never talks to him about the older son or what the conversations are about. She is the same way with her ex husband. She is telling op that it is private conversations with her ex and none of his business.





EleGirl said:


> OP said that the adult son is 20, finishing up his sophomore year at school.


So not that old.. I would respect the privacy between her and her son. But this should have been discussed well in advance.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So not that old.. I would respect the privacy between her and her son. But this should have been discussed well in advance.


Yea, I don't have a problem with the idea of her not telling her husband about every conversation she has with her son. You are right that she should have discussed the idea of the 20 year old moving in.

Rent can be very high in some places. It might be that even if the kid gets a job, he can't afford to rent a place. Right now in this country rents are very high and it can be hard to find a job, even though we keep hearing that there are lots of open jobs. I have some friends who are job hunting, they keep applying, and nothing comes through.

There are still details that we don't know. It would be great if his wife would come on here and talk. Something just seems off. But you know that this seldom happens.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, I don't have a problem with the idea of her not telling her husband about every conversation she has with her son. You are right that she should have discussed the idea of the 20 year old moving in.
> 
> Rent can be very high in some places. It might be that even if the kid gets a job, he can't afford to rent a place. Right now in this country rents are very high and it can be hard to find a job, even though we keep hearing that there are lots of open jobs. I have some friends who are job hunting, they keep applying, and nothing comes through.
> 
> There are still details that we don't know. It would be great if his wife would come on here and talk. Something just seems off. But you know that this seldom happens.


He may only be going to be there for the summer until school starts again or something. And he might be one of those kids that rarely stays home anyway because he's college age and I know there are some real home bodies now but in my day I wouldn't have been home much at all even if I was saying I was living there.

So maybe it will work out.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It sounds like daddy has a new sugar mama and she ain't puttin' out like daddy would like so daddy is kicking junior to the curb in hopes of improving his own sitch. 

OP's wife can always get a full-time job and rent her widdle baby his own place.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I believe this says everything.



Blue17Wind said:


> He live with his biological father as his mother support him with college tution. His father was suppose to be financially responsible for the oldest son. But this is not the case. I know the bond between a mother and son is strong and I don't expect her to just let him go without. But I can handle most of this emotional baggage. The secrecy is what bothers me the most when she is expecting me to pick up the piece for a seed that is not mine but anothers responsablity.


She wants his money to support her oldest son because the POS sperm donor refuses to step up to the plate.

At the same time she wants complete privacy with older son and the POS ex.

POS is valid, he dropped all interactions with the 13 yr old years ago.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

This kid is a serious slacker. My daughter rents in a very expensive northeast city BY HERSELF, whilst attending school FULL TIME, and she WORKS when she's not in school. Her mother and I help her with school, each of us pays a third of the tuition.

If you are close to a city, and the kid can't find a job, I've got two words for him "RESTAURANT INDUSTRY". The hours are flexible, often times conducive to a college students schedule, and the tips on weekend nights can pay for rent and other necessities.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

When I said she works when not in school, I meant when not in class.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Benbutton said:


> This kid is a serious slacker. My daughter rents in a very expensive northeast city BY HERSELF, whilst attending school FULL TIME, and she WORKS when she's not in school. Her mother and I help her with school, each of us pays a third of the tuition.
> 
> If you are close to a city, and the kid can't find a job, I've got two words for him "RESTAURANT INDUSTRY". The hours are flexible, often times conducive to a college students schedule, and the tips on weekend nights can pay for rent and other necessities.


I can tell you here in NY, there is no way someone can go to college full time and work enough to pay for a portion of tuition AND pay for their living expenses. It simply isn't possible. A tiny studio apartment is $1200 month. My daughter just graduated. She worked as much as she could her whole time in school and went full time over the summer. She made about $25k, under $20k after taxes. That simply isn't enough to pay rent, groceries, utilities AND a portion of tuition. 

My son plays a sport so no way he can work during the school year, but he works full time over the summer and picks up jobs over the winter break. He is one broke SOB during the school year. He contributes a portion of what he makes to tuition, but the remainder doesn't make it through the year, even without paying for his rent.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about him being a slacker without more details.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I sympathize with the situation, but I'm going to add a little common sense here to keep in mind just in general when asking people to share their communications with others with you.

If you are looking for a trustworthy person who doesn't have it in them ethically to betray you by asking them to betray friends and family by breaching their privacy, which isn't theirs to breach, and they agree to that, their ethics are that they will betray people, and that means they to have it in them to betray you as well.

So the way to ensure that you end up with a betrayer is to choose someone who will acquiesce to betraying others.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I can tell you here in NY, there is no way someone can go to college full time and work enough to pay for a portion of tuition AND pay for their living expenses. It simply isn't possible. A tiny studio apartment is $1200 month. My daughter just graduated. She worked as much as she could her whole time in school and went full time over the summer. She made about $25k, under $20k after taxes. That simply isn't enough to pay rent, groceries, utilities AND a portion of tuition.
> 
> My son plays a sport so no way he can work during the school year, but he works full time over the summer and picks up jobs over the winter break. He is one broke SOB during the school year. He contributes a portion of what he makes to tuition, but the remainder doesn't make it through the year, even without paying for his rent.
> 
> I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about him being a slacker without more details.


My daughter pays more than that in Boston.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So the way to ensure that you end up with a betrayer is to choose someone who will acquiesce to betraying others.


Also, and this may have been addressed earlier in the thread and if so I apologize, but is it possible she's hiding the communications because her ex says terrible things about the OP and she doesn't want him to see that? The assumption seems to be that she's hiding comms for nefarious reasons, is it possible that she's trying to protect him (and failing because the secrecy is bugging him). Has anyone mentioned anything that effect?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

@Blue17Wind is already doing a lot for his wife. By paying most of the bills, he enabled her to only have to work part time so she can be there for her younger son. Who I think has special needs. The kid who her own ex has rejected is being taken cared of in a loving and accepting way by OP and even his kids. Now her ex has a new girlfriend, so he wants his first born out of the house so he can have privacy with her. Why is that going to be Blue’s responsibility too. Doesn’t he get some privacy with his wife? No, the only privacy his wife wants is with her communication with her ex. 

I see a wife that is ungrateful and is definitely not on team Blue. For her to be secretive over communication with her ex is hard to fathom. Is she still hung up on that deadbeat? That’s why I totally agree with @Rob_1 post on page 5 that getting with a woman with kids is a bad bet. I know there are some good single moms or divorcée’s with kids but there seems to be more ungrateful takers like Blue’s wife to make the risk worth it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Benbutton said:


> My daughter pays more than that in Boston.


Then she must be making good money or racking up loans. 

Regardless, we don't really know the situation with the son or the reasons for him moving in. Neither does the OP, which is the real problem here. The lack of knowing.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I sympathize with the situation, but I'm going to add a little common sense here to keep in mind just in general when asking people to share their communications with others with you.
> 
> If you are looking for a trustworthy person who doesn't have it in them ethically to betray you by asking them to betray friends and family by breaching their privacy, which isn't theirs to breach, and they agree to that, their ethics are that they will betray people, and that means they to have it in them to betray you as well.
> 
> So the way to ensure that you end up with a betrayer is to choose someone who will acquiesce to betraying others.


You know, no one has ever said to betray the trust of your friends. You can have transparency without betraying your friends' trust. You make it sound like people are saying a spouse should be providing a transcript of all their comms. Never has that been said, not remotely. 

In this post what has been said is the current husband should be privy to the conversations with an ex husband and have some knowledge of the son's background and why he needs to move in. That is not a betrayal of anyone's trust. It is just behavior that respects the marriage. 

In general terms it has been said that their should be two way transparency and trust. @TexasMom1216 gave the perfect example of how it should be. She has a password on her phone, which is a good practice for everyone, and her husband knows what it is. He is free to look at her phone if he chooses. She also expects that he will respect her privacy and not snoop. 

What is wrong is when one spouse absolutely refuses to allow access to their phone and hides the existence of conversations. You may not believe it, but that isn't how a good marriage works. I suspect you will find that everyone here on TAM with a healthy marriage has access in someway to their spouse's phone.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Also, and this may have been addressed earlier in the thread and if so I apologize, but is it possible she's hiding the communications because her ex says terrible things about the OP and she doesn't want him to see that? The assumption seems to be that she's hiding comms for nefarious reasons, is it possible that she's trying to protect him (and failing because the secrecy is bugging him). Has anyone mentioned anything that effect?


Highly doubt it. Why would a OP give even the slightest **** about what his wife’s POS ex thinks or says about him? 
You’re just grasping at straws and trying to find any possible justification to defend her secrecy with her ex. Why?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Highly doubt it. Why would a OP give even the slightest **** about what his wife’s POS ex thinks or says about him?
> You’re just grasping at straws and trying to find any possible justification to defend her secrecy with her ex. Why?


Wow, that's a rather disproportionate response to my post. Why are you attacking me? I'm asking questions, while admitting it could already have been addressed and that I haven't read the whole thread.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Wow, that's a rather disproportionate response to my post. Why are you attacking me? I'm asking questions, while admitting it could already have been addressed and that I haven't read the whole thread.


No, you’re asking questions in one direction only. 
And my response is that the scenario you postulated it’s not very plausible and simply serves as yet another hypothetical defense of his wife’s secrecy with her ex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He is free to look at her phone if he chooses. She also expects that he will respect her privacy and not snoop.


Oh, really? Wow, I must have missed where the wife came on TAM and said that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, really? Wow, I must have missed where the wife came on TAM and said that.


I was talking about @TexasMom1216 . She is the one that said that. What she described is exactly how it should work. Mutual trust and transparency.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Then she must be making good money or racking up loans.
> 
> Regardless, we don't really know the situation with the son or the reasons for him moving in. Neither does the OP, which is the real problem here. The lack of knowing.


It's not uncommon for her to make $500-$600 per weekend night in tips, it's a high end restaurant. 

I'll give you that, we really don't know.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Also, and this may have been addressed earlier in the thread and if so I apologize, but is it possible she's hiding the communications because her ex says terrible things about the OP and she doesn't want him to see that? The assumption seems to be that she's hiding comms for nefarious reasons, is it possible that she's trying to protect him (and failing because the secrecy is bugging him). Has anyone mentioned anything that effect?


Why is she talking with the ex?

It isn’t all about the kids. They have one full time and the other is 19. What is so secret that she can’t tell her husband? I am curious if it was the other way and a husband was having secret conversations with his ex.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> Why is she talking with the ex?
> 
> It isn’t all about the kids. They have one full time and the other is 19. What is so secret that she can’t tell her husband? I am curious if it was the other way and a husband was having secret conversations with his ex.


I don’t really know. I tossed out a theory, conceded I could be wrong and hadn’t read the whole thread. Seems I am lacking a lot of key information and spoke out of turn.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Blue17Wind said:


> My concern now is her lack of trust to allow me to read messages between her oldest son and her ex-husband.


I don't understand why she has access to those messages; but, imo, they are none of her business nor yours. Perhaps, the quote meant messages between her and her son and her and her ex.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> I don't understand why she has access to those messages; but, imo, they are none of her business nor yours. Perhaps, the quote meant messages between her and her son and her and her ex.


I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

And honestly, I’m really not concerned with messages between her and her son. There is certainly a fair argument that those are not any of his business (at least in the absence of some serious compelling event).

The messages between her and her ex, not so much.
Those should be completely open and transparent.
She doesn’t get to have private communications with her ex that husband isn’t allowed to see if he wants to. The end.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Blue17Wind said:


> Am I just being insecure and partially controlling wanting to read their correspondence between them without it being filtered by my wife?


In any other situation you could be seen as controlling, possibly.

But I've been there, done that with what you describe. Dated a woman whose son talked crap about me because his father was brainwashing him to hate anyone she dated. I found out one day just walking by his phone and he was in the other room. The notification text that popped up as I walked by was his dad telling him to smart off to me whenever he felt like it. So I knew they were talking back and forth.

Long story short I discussed it with his mother, although she agreed it was bad, she also said there isn't anything she is going to do about it as to not rock the boat.

So I ended it (although it wasn't the only reason, just one of the bigger ones) and told her she's gonna be very lonely if she continues to let her X and son manipulate the men she dates.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.
> 
> That said, asking for an adult child to move in and shutting your husband out of any and all communications regarding that decision is the other side of that same coin. She can't realistically expect him to blindly agree to all this.
> 
> Sounds like divorce is the best option. He married her without realizing her kids would be in the picture. Either she was hiding it from him or he just assumed he could toss the kids aside once they were married. My money is on door #1, I don't think she was honest about how much responsibility she would expect him to help her shoulder for her adult children.


Well that is mighty misandrious of ya;


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No decent man who cares about anyone on earth other than himself would even want to associate with a woman who immediately abandons her children for some guy.


Same for one who would kill their baby because she does not want to raise it.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Blue17Wind said:


> My wife (45 female) of three years keeps her first marriage very guarded and I (53 male) am only given access in small table spoons any information about her during that time period. I accepted this in our relationship and normally brush away the little lies here and there that she creates to divert the conversation. My concern now is her lack of trust to allow me to read messages between her oldest son and her ex-husband. Both people I do not trust and both continue to abuse her and take advantage of her kindness. I have taken on the responsibility of raising her younger son. She wants her adult son to come live with us and I don't like this at all, since I know so little about this adult child personality and because she limits me by restricting me from her communication with him. She states those conversations are private. In my mind, it feels more like she is keeping secretes.
> Other then that, I have no reservations with my wife to have full access to all parts of my life without a second though. I feel, I should change all my passwords and restrict sharing anything about my adult children and our conversations. I know this sounds childish.
> Am I just being insecure and partially controlling wanting to read their correspondence between them without it being filtered by my wife?


Everything should be an open book between you too. Something is going on where you will always be 3rd fiddle. Get the fudge out. Leave like there is no tomorrow. She will tell you hit the door.
Any age you are are a step dad, you are riding bee-atch


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Same for one who would kill their baby because she does not want to raise it.


I agree with this.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Well that is mighty misandrious of ya;


I don’t think you know what that word means because there’s nothing in my post that is remotely misandrist.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, I don't have a problem with the idea of her not telling her husband about every conversation she has with her son. You are right that she should have discussed the idea of the 20 year old moving in.
> 
> Rent can be very high in some places. It might be that even if the kid gets a job, he can't afford to rent a place. Right now in this country rents are very high and it can be hard to find a job, even though we keep hearing that there are lots of open jobs. I have some friends who are job hunting, they keep applying, and nothing comes through.
> 
> There are still details that we don't know. It would be great if his wife would come on here and talk. Something just seems off. But you know that this seldom happens.


I'm thinking the son is wanting to do his own thing and dad is saying no. You live in my house you go by my rules! Fine I'll go live with mom! Mom will let me run the streets to all hours and drag in at 4 am. Hell to the no!

You want to do your thing rent your own place. My mom said You can stay at home till you graduate college, then your out. If you choose not to go to college, your out when you graduate HS.

Me thinks this kid will disregard OPs house rules and do as he pleases. Mom will kiss kids butt and OP will be the big bad wolf.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No decent man who cares about anyone on earth other than himself would even want to associate with a woman who immediately abandons her children for some guy.


She doesn't have to abandon her child, but put her foot down and let him know she won't tolerate the manipulation especially when he is being brainwashed by his father, who obviously can't stand to see his mother with someone else.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Keeping her communication with her ex secret from you is absolute horse-detritus.


Unless I missed it, I thought the issue wasn't that she was secretly communicating with her ex, which is a deal breaker, but that she is saying that communications between her son and his father is off limits to him. I kind of agree there, but to a point. If it's obvious his father is getting the son to be a **** to OP, then either the mom needs to step up and put the kibosh on it, or demand his phone and she looks to see what kind of s**t they both talk about OP.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Highly doubt it. Why would a OP give even the slightest **** about what his wife’s POS ex thinks or says about him?


I would care less what the X of a woman I might be dating thinks of me.

But if he is putting his children up to disrespect me, then we are going to have words.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t think you know what that word means because there’s nothing in my post that is remotely misandrist.


It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.

Sounds like man bashing to me.

Tolerate!? It should be open book on both sides. All my passwords are written down for my wife and hers likewise. We are married. We are one. Anyone who talks to me or her knows the other will know. We are a team.

In the same way, I do not carry on a secrete conversation with any female. If my female friend that lives in Kansas calls, the phone is put on speaker. 

If a spouse wants to have secretive communications with ex lovers, I don't care if they have kids or not, they will be suspect...because they are not protecting the team. Doing super secrete squirrel **** with others of opposite sex and excluding your spouse is out of line, way out of line. Don't matter if you are man or woman. That crap is wrong and very suspect.

The crap OPs wife has done makes me think she still has a 🔥 for ex hubby and does not want OP to know the communication content. I bet most of her communications with ex has been deleted.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

drencrom said:


> Unless I missed it, I thought the issue wasn't that she was secretly communicating with her ex, which is a deal breaker, but that she is saying that communications between her son and his father is off limits to him. I kind of agree there, but to a point. If it's obvious his father is getting the son to be a **** to OP, then either the mom needs to step up and put the kibosh on it, or demand his phone and she looks to see what kind of s**t they both talk about OP.


It is comms between her and ex, and her and son that she is being secretive of. He is being actively excluded from the communication between her and both of them. Not between dad and son.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is comms between her and ex, and her and son that she is being secretive of. He is being actively excluded from the communication between her and both of them. Not between dad and son.


Ok, got it.

Knowing that, then he shouldn't be footing the bill for the son. It's like "take care of my son, pay for his needs, but you don't get to know what's going on behind the scenes"

I'd start keeping my finances separate.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Divinely Favored said:


> I'm thinking the son is wanting to do his own thing and dad is saying no. You live in my house you go by my rules! Fine I'll go live with mom! Mom will let me run the streets to all hours and drag in at 4 am. Hell to the no!
> 
> You want to do your thing rent your own place. My mom said You can stay at home till you graduate college, then your out. If you choose not to go to college, your out when you graduate HS.
> 
> Me thinks this kid will disregard OPs house rules and do as he pleases. Mom will kiss kids butt and OP will be the big bad wolf.


That could be a possibility but having a dad that’s preoccupied with his new girl, could mean more autonomy for him. But that his father wasn’t paying his rightful share for supporting his kids and that he rejected his younger son because he had special needs, leads me to believe he’s not really the type that is an involved dad. He probably wants him out so he can have more , time and privacy with his new girlfriend. 

I think Blue mentioned that she had kids too. If so, she may have pushed for him to get his son out of the house to make room for her kids. Either way, Blue’s wife’s ex is trashy guy , who I can’t understand why she wants to keep her communication with him private from Blue, unless she’s still hung up on him. She wouldn’t be the first wife I’ve read a thread about who’s still into a loser ex over a current husband who is a much better man.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> It's nothing more than a justification to dehumanize the wife by removing her right to any privacy at all. No man would tolerate the treatment these men are recommending.
> 
> Sounds like man bashing to me.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't get it. @TexasMom1216 keeps manufacturing this double standard that doesn't exist, seemingly to just to have a dig a men. Never have I seen comments on TAM give advice about this issue that changed based on gender. Transparency like this has to be two way, period.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Call me nuts, but when in any relationship, I was perfectly happy to leave my phone accessible. I had nothing to hide, so nothing in it would give reason to cause me any grief.

People talk about right to privacy when in a marriage. There are very few instances that this "right to privacy" covers. Example, simply wanting time to yourself, going to a movie with friends, etc, poker night. Even then it's no big deal to share details with your spouse/partner if in fact there is nothing to hide.

Now I'll digress, because on the other side of the coin is someone who wants to constantly look at someone's communications and probably HOPING they find something. Constantly wanting to do this then goes a bit too far. Even though I'd have nothing to hide and don't mind if someone I'm with looks at my phone, once they start becoming obsessed about it, then it's a red flag that I'm with a psycho hose beast.

Now, in OPs situation, there seems to be some disrespect going on towards him that seems almost obvious these phone communications would prove or disprove. This isn't a case of OP wanting to obsessively look at the communications in hopes of finding something, he has been given suspicion that something is going on, and his wife's refusal to let him see is all too telling. Not saying she is doing anything shifty, but IMO I'm guessing her son and X are badmouthing OP, and she simply doesn't want OP to know so there won't be any drama.

So hopefully if this is the case that she is telling her son and X to respect him, especially if he is expected to foot the bill when the father will not.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> She doesn't have to abandon her child, but put her foot down and let him know she won't tolerate the manipulation especially when he is being brainwashed by his father, who obviously can't stand to see his mother with someone else.


That’s fair. Maybe I misunderstand the OP’s situation. I also tend to project, the only reason to monitor someone’s communications is if you think something is up, and it would feel like an accusation to me. If she is acting shady, then I see why he’s demanding to see the communications, and honestly, maybe he should just leave her. If he can’t trust her, the marriage is doomed.

I’ve also said asking an adult son to move in without a serious discussion with her new husband is way way out of line.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Blue17Wind said:


> I feel, I should change all my passwords and restrict sharing anything about my adult children and our conversations. I know this sounds childish.


No, not childish at all. Fair is fair. She doesn't get to keep secrets then demand you are an open book(not saying she is demanding it, just saying).

If anything, this can prove your point. Just change all passwords. Don't tell her you did, then wait to see if she asks you about it. Then you can have a conversation about this so-called "privacy"

But I'd change the passwords, then forget it. Don't dwell on it wondering if she notices. Just move on. She wants to keep secrets, then show her how it feels, even though you aren't keeping secrets.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s fair. Maybe I misunderstand the OP’s situation. I also tend to project, the only reason to monitor someone’s communications is if you think something is up, and it would feel like an accusation to me. If she is acting shady, then I see why he’s demanding to see the communications, and honestly, maybe he should just leave her. If he can’t trust her, the marriage is doomed.
> 
> I’ve also said asking an adult son to move in without a serious discussion with her new husband is way way out of line.


I would say, if I were married or dating someone with a son in college, IMO, they are still a dependent child, adult or not. It's not unreasonable to keep supporting him while he is in school.

Once out of school, even then, I wouldn't mind helping him/her out with a roof over their heads until the get established...but we aren't going to be talking years.

Either way, yes, it needed to be discussed. The mom shouldn't just expect it, even though I can't imagine someone being against this since the kid is still in school. I imagine I'd be seen as a real sh**heel for not letting the son who is still in college, come live with us until he is at least done. But that's me. Again, though, it needs to be discussed, not expected.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

drencrom said:


> Call me nuts, but when in any relationship, I was perfectly happy to leave my phone accessible. I had nothing to hide, so nothing in it would give reason to cause me any grief.
> 
> People talk about right to privacy when in a marriage. There are very few instances that this "right to privacy" covers. Example, simply wanting time to yourself, going to a movie with friends, etc, poker night. Even then it's no big deal to share details with your spouse/partner if in fact there is nothing to hide.
> 
> ...


Or she may be bad mouthing OP along with them.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> I would say, if I were married or dating someone with a son in college, IMO, they are still a dependent child, adult or not. It's not unreasonable to keep supporting him while he is in school.
> 
> Once out of school, even then, I wouldn't mind helping him/her out with a roof over their heads until the get established...but we aren't going to be talking years.
> 
> Either way, yes, it needed to be discussed. The mom shouldn't just expect it, even though I can't imagine someone being against this since the kid is still in school. I imagine I'd be seen as a real sh**heel for not letting the son who is still in college, come live with us until he is at least done. But that's me. Again, though, it needs to be discussed, not expected.


It kind of sounds like she’s making all these plans without talking to him about it, and almost like he’s surprised this even came up. That in itself is shady. I babble on endlessly about my son, anyone who was with me would know that he’s always going to be in the picture. And if there was a need for him to live with them, that’s not something that comes up overnight. She should have been talking to her husband about this the whole time, not springing it on him out of the blue. But honestly I’ve not read the whole thread carefully so I’m going to step back.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> I'm thinking the son is wanting to do his own thing and dad is saying no. You live in my house you go by my rules! Fine I'll go live with mom! Mom will let me run the streets to all hours and drag in at 4 am. Hell to the no!
> 
> You want to do your thing rent your own place. My mom said You can stay at home till you graduate college, then your out. If you choose not to go to college, your out when you graduate HS.
> 
> Me thinks this kid will disregard OPs house rules and do as he pleases. Mom will kiss kids butt and OP will be the big bad wolf.


Maybe, but we don't know. This is a common problem here on TAM. We only get part of the story. I wish his wife would come here and talk, but that's highly unlikely.


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## Blue17Wind (8 mo ago)

David60525 said:


> Everything should be an open book between you too. Something is going on where you will always be 3rd fiddle. Get the fudge out. Leave like there is no tomorrow. She will tell you hit the door.
> Any age you are are a step dad, you are riding bee-atch


I do feel that constantly with my stepson. Going on three years. Had living with me since 9. Constantly expanding his view of life and going on many trips here in the southwest. Fishing, hiking, dune buggies and those dreadful teacher meeting. But never any recognition just a mundane attitude. His biological father calls him a few times a year and he is as happy as a clam. His mother tells me that his father never spent quality time with this kid. But I keep hoping that in the future he will see a world of difference in the two of us as his male role models. At this point you are correct I feel like no matter what I do I'm riding bee-atch.


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