# Spending issues



## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

2nd marriage. Husband is 52, I'm 50. My husband is getting better at communication but we have issues including what is leading me to post after a hiatus. 

Issues: Husband is self-employed. This is a second marriage. We moved into his house. I sold mine, rolled my equity into this house and because of his issues with his ex, bought the house from him. The mortgage is in my name only. Each of us have adult children. I was feeling resentful about what I pay toward household expenses so I took the emotion out of it and I recently did a spreadsheet and 78% of my pay goes to the mortgage and household expenses. I do not get any regular checks from him and we do not have a joint checking account. When I showed him the spreadsheet I thought he would see what I am contributing. Instead, his only comment was that we are paying too much for cable. 

Last Saturday, I learned that my husband and his son were going to remodel the bathroom for the first time. I was hurt because I felt that as his wife and the one who pays the mortgage that I should at a minimum be told "Hey honey, JD and I were thinking of remodeling the basement bathroom. We are thinking of doing x,y & z. Do you want to go to Home Depot and help pick something out?" I asked him don't you think it would have been nice to at least let me know since I do pay the mortgage? His response was "we won't do it then. 

Today, I returned home to find the bathroom gutted and my stepson painting over "the hideous pastel blue paint" that I had picked out (the bathroom had pastel blue fixtures). I got upset and asked my son what the plan was for the bathroom. I was calm and clearly stated that I wasn't mad at him but since I pay the mortgage and all bills in this house, it would have been nice to know.

Probably a mistake but I was trying to factually and calmly justify why I was asking and why I was upset. My step-son told my husband pretty quickly.

I called my husband after I spoke with his son to tell him 2 neutral things that I thought would interest him and to ask him about the bathroom. I don't think that the son had called him yet. He shut down when I said in a marriage usually a husband and wife will communicate about this kind of thing. His response was to tell me 10 years ago I didn't communicate about painting the walls blue in that bathroom. I told him that I couldn't remember 10 years ago but does marriage to him mean that I cannot have color on at least one set of walls and knowing my communicating style I would have told him. He then said he would finish this job and then I could do my son's bathroom however I wanted. I told him that I wanted us both to do the bathroom. That bathroom was partially remodeled by my husband and his son and that floorboards are still off, it was never painted and there is no mirror some 5 years later. I told him that marriage is about communication and compromise. He said he doesn't play nicely with others and I said you are in a relationship to some extent you will have to. Clearly this is not about bathrooms, it's about doing what normal married couples do--engage one another and work as a team!

Later I called him to see when he was coming home for dinner as I wanted to start it so it would be done in time and he wouldn't have to wait. At that point he launched in on me about having told his son that I pay all the bills etc. and the next time my daughter came up from college he would tell her what a ****ing pig she is as far as how she keeps her car (he's a mechanic) and he will tell her all that he pays to work on her car. (Since he works on all 3 of his kids and just my daughter's car, I don't think that this is special treatment to my daughter and me and trust me his daughter's car is as bad or worse than my daughters). I told him that this is not about my daughter's behavior it's about communication and respect. I reminded him that when we were dating he told me that it was so very important not to hold things in because that causes resentment and resentment causes problems. 

He said it's your house do with it how you please. I told him that he tells me that yet when I told him that I didn't want his 24 year old son cohabitating with his girlfriend at our house it didn't matter as she has been living here since December when they both graduated. I told him at the time she was going to move in that wasn't my parenting style and how can we let one do it and if my daughter wants to how can I be fair to her? His response when I told him this tonight: I will tell my son and her to get the **** out of the house and then I'll move down stairs. 

I told him that when there is conflict, a couple has to communicate. It may not be a pleasant conversation but you have to communicate and find a way to resolve issues and compromise. I agree that my approach in telling his son everything I did may not have been the right thing to do but I did so out of a knee jerk response and that I wanted to make it clear to his son why I was upset and that I was certainly not upset with him. My husband said that he was half-way home and looked for an apology for me so now he is going to turn around and sleep at his business. This is the first time in 12 years of marriage.

Other factors: He was sick last week. I caught his cold. I slept 2 hours at best Monday night. When my coughing was causing him to toss and turn, I left our room and slept in a recliner. He came out to see me a few hours later and told me to come back in our room. Within 5 minutes he was groping me and demanding sex. I couldn't believe this because no fewer than 5 minutes ago I told him I was up all night with only 2 hours of sleep. He kept pursuing and I asked him "Didn't you hear what I just said about only having 2 hours of sleep? Why is it when you are sick, you can rest (I'll get dressed in the dark in the morning so he can sleep). I gave in for a quickie. He just got his first testosterone shot on Saturday so I don' t know if that has something to do with it. 

I'm not expecting complete change--just mutual respect and communication. I want to be heard. 

Guys: how can a wife in my situation communicate better but get some movement?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Bobby if I could have taken one thing back it was to not disclose to his son but the scenario took me by surprise and I was trying to justify my frustration and to not make his son feel it was his fault.

That having been said, this is an unresolved issue and there is a lot more history that I haven't shared.

I work for him as his bookkeeper for free saving him $2000/month (what he paid the former employee) and I work full-time for a large corporation in management. I see where the money goes...when he purchased the bldg for his business, he told me that the bank wanted my earnings...that was it. Days before the closing it expanded to my having to put the house up as collateral (remember my equity and in my name), 1/2 the life insurance proceeds which would have been payable to me and I think I also co-signed. I didn't want to do this but if didn't the loan wouldn't close and he was upset.

About twice per year in front of his employees, including the son's girlfriend he will say "when you cross this threshold I am king--what you want to do with the house you have control of." He humiliated me in front of them because I had a day where he kept being almost like a high school kid with the son's girlfriend talking to her in a singsong voice while I busted butt doing the books. He teased me about bring in a sour mood and it hurt. I didn't want to respond because the timing wasn't right nor were we alone. I felt taken for granted and wanted to be appreciated that was all. When I walked out and gave him his balances I said in a cheerful voice "You're welcome!" I expected "Thank you" and I ended up with being accused in front of the employees as being "Passive aggressive" and the "king comment".He told me not to come back in front of her. 

I am very proud of my work and he admits that I do a good job. When I asked him not to "go there" he persisted--I told him "If it weren't for me you wouldn't have a threshold to cross". Again, not my preferred route to go but I was hurt, shocked and humiliated.

He spends a lot on his son and last year spent $22K on buying his daughter's house. All but about $5 K was to be returned when it was refinanced but that didn't happen. 

My thoughts are that if he had to pay 1/2 of our bills his spending on his kids couldn't happen to the level it is ($354 on a pair of non-prescription sunglasses for his son and a $5000+ trip to Europe which was only supposed to be $1500). He will rationalize its because the son stayed in school and didn't get in trouble. When I grew up that behavior was expected but not rewarded by my parents, I felt their paying my tuition was my reward and I better keep up my end of the bargain,

In the past 90 days another $5000 trip to Europe for the son with the girlfriend as a graduation gift, NFL playoff tickets for him and the girlfriend for a graduation gift, airfare to Chicago, This past week baseball tickets for him and the girlfriend and $100 tab at a local sports bar...I say NOTHING! If the son wasn't living downstairs trust me there wouldn't have been a bathroom remodel!

He will pay for us to cruise but oftentimes his credit card work overseas so in a pinch I will put charges on mine. 

I don't want to be a kept wife. I was raised by Depression Era parents. My Dad worked hard, saved and gave us a great life but they didn't lavish on us. When I was in high school I worked for my Dad, at a store, babysat for 3 families, volunteered and kept an "A" average,

I've tried "the positive sandwich", I've bitten my tongue. I finally said to myself if I don't do something I have no right to complain so in January of this year I took the emotion out of it and prepared that spreadsheet so he could see it objectively. I told him that. His response wasn't how can I help but I think you are paying too much for cable--yet last week his son complained he is not able to get "On Demand" on his TV downstairs and hubby jumped in immediately to try to fix that by upgrading the box and probably an increase in our bill.

Today was pent up frustration and partially wrong on my part. Sorry for the length.
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Last edited by wifenumber2; Today at 01:57 AM. Reason: Typo/additions,


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds to me like his whole family found a cash cow in you. I don't see any benefits for YOU in being there. IIWY, I'd put the house up for sale - since it's in your name, give him his half and move away. Oh, and stop doing his damn books. I take it back. Stop doing his books FIRST.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The reason they treat you that way is because you allow it.

If he told you in front of his employees 'don't come back' you should NEVER have come back. You coming back to keep doing his books was YOU teaching him that you are a doormat.

My H used to come around behind me after I'd mow the grass, and re-mow it! Lines weren't straight enough, I missed a few sprigs, etc. Finally, after a couple times of that, I just stood there watchig him mow. When he finished, when we walked past me to put the mower up, I just said 'You just got yourself a job.' And I never mowed again.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I work there because I had to put up the home as collateral, 1/2 of the life insurance proceeds
due me and I co-signed so I have a need to ensure the books are done properly and all loan 
payments issued timely. I told him if he could get me fully restored and remove from the $750K 
loans then I will stop working on the books.

I agree with the cash cow thing and that is which was part of the factors impacting me yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

He doesn't sound terribly respectful. Are there good aspects to him?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, if you have to be there, then I suggest you start putting $2000 a month into a separate bank account he can't touch, as your payment for doing the work. THAT would show that you should be respected.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm learning that respect is inconsistent. It is clear that pleasing his kids matters more than respecting me.I think he loves me the best he can but last night could have been a deal breaker. I am going to stay busy and give him and myself space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And pay yourself a salary?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I have thought of it. He tells me that I need to ask for money when I need it but I think he has to know that each month there is the mortgage and the utilities and when I showed him the spreadsheet to show him how much the overhead at home is each month. I did that so he could see what a fair share would be, I told him I would provide this data to him monthly and his only response was: "I think the cable bill is high".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wifenumber2 said:


> I have thought of it. He tells me that I need to ask for money when I need it


Excuse me?

YOU paid his bills. YOU saved his mortgage. YOU do his work and save him $2000/month - for free.

You need to ask HIM for money?

HELL no, honey. HE needs to ask YOU for money.

Are you ready to stop this bull****?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

If he is living in this house in a hostile manner/not speaking to me then I plan to give him a statement of his portion of the monthly bills.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Granted I just skimmed this but it seems like yes you're the cash cow but instead of dealing with problems productively you use this fact as a bat to bash your husband over the head with. You emasculate him with it then he retaliates by being passive aggressive and mean. I can kinda see where you're both contributing to this problem.

The first step is for you to stop doing any and all things that cause you anger or resentment. Take back your power. If you don't want to work for free then give two weeks notice and quit. If you don't want to pay for trips then don't. If he's overspending then take charge of YOUR money. If he won't contribute to the bills sell the house and but something smaller. There is a way out.

You do realize that it was your choice to buy both this house and his right? Please take ownership of how you keep feeding this unhealthy dynamic.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_ Looking back at the posts you are correct. I felt uncomfortable having to ask for money because I felt that anyone who has lived on their own knows you have mortgage/rent + utilities. He pays them for his business so if we are living together, I just felt he has got to know that these aren't being provided for free. 

Selling the house and going small. Would love to, but if you scroll back you will see that the house we live in is being used as collateral on his business loan. Yes I had a choice not to, but at the time, I was very much in love with him. I felt we were a team. I felt anxiety about doing this as originally the bank just wanted my W2 to see what I earned to show that the business wouldn't have to support us. Then 48 hours before the closing--something that took over one year to arrive to, the bank wants me to sign over the house as collateral, sign over 50% of the life insurance proceeds due to to them and co-sign. My husband is telling me that it will all fall apart if I don't. The business is doing great, I can do the books to feel comfortable about this, small business owners have to do this all of the time. I was afraid if I didn't, my marriage may be at risk...I know, sounds dumb now but hindsight is 20/20.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Agree totally after reading these posts. Hard not to realize your contribution in the midst of it. At times I thought I was helping things by trying to chose my battles. I felt uncomfortable asking for money. I should have. I just had faith that since he pays silmar bills for his business he would know that this also applies at home. Would love to sell the house but not too easy if you scroll up rr his business loan you will see why. Felt I was in a no-win situation with his commercial loan. Afraid to losing him over it. Very stupid looking back but at the time I was very anxious and he said the bank loan officer said he would release me after 24 months of timely pmts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Afraid of losing him.....that's the part you need to deal with. You realize that you have essentially tried to buy his love right? Then you're pissed because it didn't work. Realize that you are enough and start setting some boundaries. Baby steps though since you're new to this. Your anger has a source go there and stop doing things that make you feel used.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Afraid of losing him.....that's the part you need to deal with. You realize that you have essentially tried to buy his love right? Then you're pissed because it didn't work. Realize that you are enough and start setting some boundaries. Baby steps though since you're new to this. Your anger has a source go there and stop doing things that make you feel used.


Working with a friend who is a faith-based counselor on what boundaries to establish and when. In the past I would feel if we fought there was still a future. I don't know what my future is. I'm ok when I'm alone. It's hardest when I know he is here and last week at this time we were holding hands and enjoying each others's company. Hard to see the son and his girlfriend still living here in light of this. Today my son (23 w/autism) have the house to ourselves and it's calm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wifenumber2 said:


> Hard to see the son and his girlfriend still living here in light of this. Today my son (23 w/autism) have the house to ourselves and it's calm.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 This alone tells me that you compromised - a LOT - just to have this husband. You can't feel like yourself around him. You can't do what you want regarding bills or choices around him. You can't have a say on who lives in the house that YOU rescued for him.

But you know WHY this is all true, right? 

It's because YOU didn't defend YOURSELF. You sold yourself and your son out for a warm body next to you.

Are you in IC? This would be a great thing to talk about with him/her. Or a great time to start.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I plan to contact our insurance carrier tomorrow for names. Did IC 2yrs ago due to his bariatric surgery
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then it should be a breeze to start up again. Find out more about yourself and why you've made the choices you've made. It will really help. If that last IC didn't help you, find a new one.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you! I'm lucky that I have good coverage. I sacrificed because I had a dream that I could be married to someone who would be a partner in all aspects of life. Someone who would love me back. In the beginning he was that man and since I learned a lesson from my first marriage about acceptance of a man as they are without any change I thought I had applied that lesson.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I can understand that. I think what you're missing is the respect issue. I see multiple instances where you sacrificed - thinking you were compromising when you really weren't, it was one-sided - and that, IMO, is what you need to look at. That's an internal issue only you and your IC can work out.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I agree with you totally. I thought I was doing the right thing and it bit me in the butt!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My DD22 has had trouble with friends most of her life. In high school, she kept picking people who would use her, and not be there for her when SHE needed a friend. This went on in college, too. A couple years ago, starting junior year, I told her not to offer to do things for people (she was always giving people rides, buying them stuff, etc.). If they stuck around even if she wasn't being a Giver, then maybe they'd be real friends and not just people looking for someone to Take from. She's followed that, and has made some pretty good friends finally.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I had the same discussion with my 21 year old. She feels obligated to fix other peoples issues and gets stuck in the middle. I told her look at the good things that I do but don't necessary act the way I do. You can love someone without giving all of yourself to them that it hurts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's an awesome little book you both could benefit from called The Dance Of Anger. It's about your anger at yourself - for being the Giver to everyone you know. It teaches you how to say no to them without upsetting them.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Update: today, I opened our water bill and found it close to twice of what it was exactly one year ago (they provide the comparison on the bill-same number of days in the billing cycle so apples to apples comparison). I mentioned that out loud to my H as I was paying the bill. He said it probably was because we have his son living here now and I said "yes and the girlfriend" No tone was used. 

He said, what is it, about $20 more? I said yes. He threw $25 over to me where I was sitting. He said "I'm not a mind reader on these issues, you have to tell me."

Five minutes later, he tells me that he is paying our son-in-law 2 hours not to work for H so he can pick up something I bought and deliver it to the business. He is also going to pay him $ for gas as well so about $50. He said it was just an observation. I promptly returned the $25 to him and he said I didn't have to and I said "It's only fair". I then asked him given the timing was this statement related to my earlier statement. I cannot recall that he made a definitive statement but he threw the $25 back to me. He didn't raise his voice and he is surfing on his laptop and I'm feeling uncomfortable. 

See above for history, it should be noted that I continue to pay the bills and the mortgage here. The son and his girlfriend have lived here since their undergraduate college graduation in December without paying anything towards the overhead--the GF has been employed since January, the son remains unemployed. 

Your thoughts?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That you're still allowing yourself to be a patsy.

Your choice.

Does it make you feel better? I can't imagine how.

How's the therapy going?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Counseling is helpful. Nothing really new gained from it that either I haven't heard on here or thought myself. 

I did hit a raw nerve with him because he finally did say that because I mentioned the GF that he inferred that I was blaming them on the additional usage. I told him that I didn't think it was solely due to them as we have some leaking faucets that I have the DIY book out. I did say that I do pay all the bills each month.

Then it started, not yelling but he started quoting the lost productivity by not having the son-in-law at work for the two hours. That it was something to consider. 

He then said we could sell the rental house that I re-fied but he looks at the return on investment with the rent to be higher than what I could derive if I left the money in a conservative account. He then said that's why I make sure that the son has enough money to eat out.



Then he started in with the seat switch that he just installed in my car (he owns a repair shop) was $200 and at that point I told him that I do take issue with that because he doesn't charge any of his kids with car repairs so I don't think that should be different for me. 

He then said "We'll go back to paying $200/week so you won't feel like you are losing out money being married to me. I told him that I would calculate the real costs and credit the car insurance he pays for my two cars and my daughter's (he pays for about 10 cars between some we buy and then sell, a loaner, one for his son etc.). I told him that I wanted to be fair. He then said the $3800 pending proceeds from a car sold at an auction that he planned to use to pay down his credit card, he will give to me to make me whole. 

I then said, "What I do for you at the shop, isn't it of value to you?" His response was, "You could train the son or another one of his employees to do that; however, you always get offended when I consider that." I said it is something that I like to do. I didn't think it was the right time to also state that I also do it because I have financial skin in the game where the loans for his building are concerned.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read The Dance Of Anger yet?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I have downloaded The Dance of Connection but not The Dance of Anger. I've got about 6 more relationship books to read. How did the Dance of Anger help you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It gave me 'permission' to stop being a typical female and putting my needs last after everyone else. It taught me how to say NO, I will NOT give you what you want just because you're more vocal and forceful than me. It helped me do this and avoid the typical female worry of being 'seen' as not 'working' with other people (i.e. allowed me to be 'selfish' for once in my life). All of which you sorely need.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

turnera said:


> It gave me 'permission' to stop being a typical female and putting my needs last after everyone else. It taught me how to say NO, I will NOT give you what you want just because you're more vocal and forceful than me. It helped me do this and avoid the typical female worry of being 'seen' as not 'working' with other people (i.e. allowed me to be 'selfish' for once in my life). All of which you sorely need.


Definitely with reading. It's hard to say no to those you love. Today was a step but I feel anxious/bad in some ways. I plan to tell him that I love him and because I do, I owe it to him to be clear and timely in my communication. I built up resentment over finances because of fear of "saying something" and it back fired. I need to learn from this and change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This book is good for that. But honestly, it sounds like what you need is a hard-edge therapist who will push you to get outside your comfort zone to do these same things. A lot faster and more effectively. You really aren't likely to just stop being a Nice Girl on your own, no matter how many books you read.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your resentment is actually against YOURSELF. The anger in The Dance Of Anger is anger at yourself - for not standing up for yourself.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Agree. I think he and I both have a role in this. I will download the book! Did you have something similar in your past? Resentment over something that you were afraid to bring up and so you didn't and it backfired?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I was raised to believe I had no voice. Old enough that I felt I HAD to get married, because that's what women were supposed to do back then. Resentment galore. I've learned a lot, and I try to keep people like you from repeating my mistakes. You don't have to live that life.


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