# Casual Involvement with Ex



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

My DW had a 20-year off-on relationship with a man before we were married. Since our marriage, she has had occasional contact with him, including invitations to family gatherings attended by us as a couple.

I have no thought that is anything other than casual, and as I understand, was nothing more than a roommate deal for about the last decade of the two. It was mostly that neither of them made enough money to support themselves autonomously. I can believe this because my W lived with family and friends over the years, and never alone.

I have never complained about the contact, even though it was uncomfortable to go to parties with him there. But, in my gut, I feel disrespected by it. I think she should avoid him because she is now married to me. I would understand, and not feel disrespected if she had contact because of a child, but they have none.

I just wondered what the array of opinions here is.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

For me if its important to you, then it should be important to her.

Have you told your wife how you feel about it?

Maybe she doesn't think its a big deal since you never bring it up while you are actually feeling strong emotions about it inside.

If 'he' is invited to family gatherings too, what is the relationship with your "group"?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

If it was nothing more than a room mate deal then it is not an EX. It is an friend who shared living expenses. This is how I'm reading your post. Am I correct with this?


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

I'm getting the feeling that this may have been a FWB relationship with this guy, not just friendship/roommate situation. How close were they? Could she have made a deal early on that if they weren't married by X years old, they'd tie the knot together? I just find it curious that this random single guy keeps hanging around and gets invited to family gatherings. It's like the family knows him a little too well too...


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

My brother had an amicable divorce and his ex comes to family gatherings w/ her husband. She and my brother are on good terms so I don't see why any of us should have bad feelings and she was part of the family for years.

I've never subscribed to the "your ex must be your enemy" philosophy.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

The last decade of the two? What about the first?
Family gatherings? Her family,yours, or his?
What is their connection ? If you feel uncomfortable
then tell her. How would she feel if you went to parties
and old female friends were there? Maybe even old girlfriends.
(IMO) Married women should not be looking up or really
hanging around possible single EX's


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I've had friends and roommates, and I wouldn't dream of going to their family events.
My Co-dependent daughter OTOH thinks every friend is a BFF and would hop in her car and drive across the US if one of them stubbed a toe.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> If it was nothing more than a room mate deal then it is not an EX. It is an friend who shared living expenses. This is how I'm reading your post. Am I correct with this?


No way!

You said it was an {off and on} relationship.

They saw each other naked, he seeing her umpteen times in her half-shut robe. 
Maybe they were not soul mates but they were [off and on] each others bodies [off and on] over the years.

It would bother me. 

Hell, he knows more about her than you. There is NOTHING that they did not share, DO TOGETHER. 

They may not have any current love for each other. 
They do have a crap load of past relationship 'love'. A whole baggage carousel's worth.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> My DW had a 20-year off-on relationship with a man before we were married. Since our marriage, she has had occasional contact with him, including invitations to family gatherings attended by us as a couple.
> 
> I have no thought that is anything other than casual, and as I understand, was nothing more than a roommate deal for about the last decade of the two. It was mostly that neither of them made enough money to support themselves autonomously. I can believe this because my W lived with family and friends over the years, and never alone.
> 
> ...


And you would be correct to feel that way. I am assuming that they had a FB or romantic relationship at some point. 

Of course it is disrespectful. 

The fact that you had to as TAM if you should feel that way, makes me think she hid your ball somewhere that you cannot find them though...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

TJW,

Were it my W I would visit this OM and express that I consider his communication with my W in any manner an attack on my marriage.

Its so common that it's a cliche that hanger on men are just waiting for an opening and will pounce when the time is right or your relationship becomes strained. 

Tamat


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

No way would I allow my husband to disrespect me in this manner. Talk to your wife. Make sure she understands that her 20years on&off relationship is permanently off! You need to lay down a consequence. If she continues this relationship then your marriage doesn't matter. Divorce her!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

TJW said:


> My DW had a 20-year off-on relationship with a man before we were married. Since our marriage, she has had occasional contact with him, including invitations to family gatherings attended by us as a couple.
> 
> I have no thought that is anything other than casual, and as I understand, was nothing more than a roommate deal for about the last decade of the two. It was mostly that neither of them made enough money to support themselves autonomously. I can believe this because my W lived with family and friends over the years, and never alone.
> 
> ...


You've left out very pertinent details that would greatly change the advice you're being given.

Are they past LOVERS?

If not, then I think it's ridiculous that just because she married you, you think you have a right to tell her give up a lifelong friend. 

However - if they have a physical history, then I think you have a right to insist on being respected.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You've left out very pertinent details that would greatly change the advice you're being given.
> 
> Are they past LOVERS?
> 
> ...


*This would be the only caveat whereby I would not want his presence in my midst!

The way I see it, a committed, married relationship between partners trumps an unmarried physical relationship with another third party any day!*


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You need to find out the true nature of their past relationship. 

I tend to think its weird that this guy mooches in on family gatherings. That is unusual, regardless of level of friendship. 

Does he have no family of his own? Was he ostracized from his family. Is he a cast off gay son that the family is ashamed of? Lots of scenarios here. 

These are questions that need answering.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

This is where I differ. My very best friend in the world is an ex-lover of mine. I've known her for almost 30 years. Our relationship today is completely platonic, and I am still considered a part of her family. She and her wife were very helpful with caring for my mother when my mother was in hospice last year.

My girlfriend's best friend is also an ex of hers. I don't see what the big deal is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

introvert said:


> This is where I differ. My very best friend in the world is an ex-lover of mine. I've known her for almost 30 years. Our relationship today is completely platonic, and I am still considered a part of her family. She and her wife were very helpful with caring for my mother when my mother was in hospice last year.
> 
> My girlfriend's best friend is also an ex of hers. I don't see what the big deal is.


What does your GF think of this nice arrangement?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

TJW said:


> My DW had a 20-year off-on relationship with a man before we were married. Since our marriage, she has had occasional contact with him, including invitations to family gatherings attended by us as a couple.
> 
> I have no thought that is anything other than casual, and as I understand, was nothing more than a roommate deal for about the last decade of the two. It was mostly that neither of them made enough money to support themselves autonomously. I can believe this because my W lived with family and friends over the years, and never alone.
> 
> ...


What matters is your feelings about it. It bothers you, so she should stop seeing her ex.

It would bother me too.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Bandit, read my post carefully. My girlfriend is best friends with her first ex as well. We aren't jealous, because our relationships with our exes are purely platonic.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

introvert said:


> Bandit, read my post carefully. My girlfriend is best friends with her first ex as well. We aren't jealous, because our relationships with our exes are purely platonic.


Off topic: Thank you for spelling platonic correctly. When people say "plutonic" I want to ask if they are friends with a distant non-planet...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I agee, we need more information. 

I may have overstated the case....or not.

I rely on my intuition.

My in state tuiton, or my out standing intuition.

None are one-hundred percent in-to-it.


Just Sayin'




The Host-


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## norman (Mar 20, 2018)

From the information you've provided, I'm not sure whether this was an ex or just a roommate of hers. I get the impression though that your wife and him may have had a friends with benefits situation. Is that the case? I think it's a little awkward for him to be around her family gatherings if him and your wife had a physical relationship together. If they were only friends though, that's different.

I'm not particularly comfortable with exes still being in the picture, but I also don't like telling my wife who she can or can't talk to. My wife had a friend who briefly became a friend with benefits who she remained friends with for years before we got together. Although they had brief sexual history, it was clear he was just a great friend to her and that their friendship was important to her. I'm fine with their friendship and get along well with him, but my wife knows that exes being around makes me a little uncomfortable. So we compromised that she would maintain her friendship with him but not have any ongoing contact/friendships with other exes. I think it's important to be honest with each other and set boundaries.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> You need to find out the true nature of their past relationship.
> 
> I tend to think its weird that this guy mooches in on family gatherings. That is unusual, regardless of level of friendship.
> 
> Does he have no family of his own? Was he ostracized from his family. Is he a cast off gay son that the family is ashamed of? Lots of scenarios here.


Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous. My W tells me that they were strictly roommates for about the last 10 years, but they attended things together, like family, etc. 

Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato. Anywhere he's invited with free beer and food, he'll be there....if he can get someone to give him a ride. I get the impression that this is a recent change, that going back, he was productive, held a job, etc.

I don't know about his relationship to his own family. My Ws family, however, is one which is extremely loyal to their friends, and mostly, they are extreme extroverts who like to have lots of gatherings, meals, etc. It occurs to me that they have a set of relationship standards which always seeks not to "exclude" anyone - the parties get very large


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TJW said:


> Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous. My W tells me that they were strictly roommates for about the last 10 years, but they attended things together, like family, etc.
> 
> Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato. Anywhere he's invited with free beer and food, he'll be there....if he can get someone to give him a ride. I get the impression that this is a recent change, that going back, he was productive, held a job, etc.
> 
> I don't know about his relationship to his own family. My Ws family, however, is one which is extremely loyal to their friends, and mostly, they are extreme extroverts who like to have lots of gatherings, meals, etc. It occurs to me that they have a set of relationship standards which always seeks not to "exclude" anyone - the parties get very large


Well, in that case, it's HELL NO! You can drag some homeless guy to the party so her relatives will meet their quota for guests. Or, round up an old girlfriend and take her along. I'm sure you wife and her family won't mind.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous. My W tells me that they were strictly roommates for about the last 10 years, but they attended things together, like family, etc.
> 
> Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato. Anywhere he's invited with free beer and food, he'll be there....if he can get someone to give him a ride. I get the impression that this is a recent change, that going back, he was productive, held a job, etc.
> 
> I don't know about his relationship to his own family. My Ws family, however, is one which is extremely loyal to their friends, and mostly, they are extreme extroverts who like to have lots of gatherings, meals, etc. It occurs to me that they have a set of relationship standards which always seeks not to "exclude" anyone - the parties get very large


Done deal... No go on reefer boy. She is being completely disrespectful in every possible way. 

You need to put a stop to this now, and forget all the "don't be controlling BS" that you will get from our more sensitive posters. 

Here is the deal. Your wife loved him at one point, before you and it was a younger love, and you know how that type of stuff goes. (remember how you loved your first GF, not saying this is that but you get the idea)

And no matter how much you trust your wife, you just never really know, now do you???? And do you think reefer boy would pass on a quick poke if wifey was a little drunk or pissed at you and you are not around.

I have had women that kept a number of loser obiters around. With every one of them, I said, "Look, you can do what you want, but if you want to be with me, this loser is gone. And sugar I mean gone for good." 

And everyone of them got the picture and wanted me. 

So you do what you want but I have a firm rule, no Exs and no orbiters...


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

This reminded me, I through a birthday party for my W but then Gf. I tried to invite all her family and my friends. Her family invited some friends of theirs. 

It was early on in our relationship so I wanted it to be perfect. I got cake, deserved the coolest section of the restaurant.

Some guy comes up to me and says, your Betty's BF and shook my hand. He said Betty is a nice cool girl. My stomach dropped I instantly knew something was up. I just watched them, his gf was there but left early that night. 

We took the party else where, a slight bigger lounge snd noticed my gf s light buzz, and I did not like their interactions at all.
She was just gf, but the next day I told her I wasn't too keen in that particular guy hanging around her and it made feel uncomfortable.
Her eyes open and quickly said she was sorry. I asked who was he she said her cousin invited him, I asked if she had a thing for him. She said why, and I said you almost ignored me the whole night. Her face turned red, and she said he was a guy she a physical thing with..... I exploded and said WHAT! You invited this guy, who she told me before but I didnt know it was him, she said her cousin invited him. I was on fire and pretty much cut her cousin off. 

I don't go for that, it's super disrespectful indeed.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

TAMAT said:


> TJW,
> 
> Were it my W I would visit this OM and express that I consider his communication with my W in any manner an attack on my marriage.
> 
> ...


I think being her roommate for 10 years was a better opening than anything likely to come up now and reportedly that was platonic. Maybe they are just friends. The fact that you slept w/ someone doesn't mean you can't be just friends later.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> I think being her roommate for 10 years was a better opening than anything likely to come up now and reportedly that was platonic. Maybe they are just friends. The fact that you slept w/ someone doesn't mean you can't be just friends later.


Spiny are you interested in a really nice beachfront lot in Nome, Alaska? If so, message me and we’ll talk terms.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deleted


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Spiny are you interested in a really nice beachfront lot in Nome, Alaska? If so, message me and we’ll talk terms.


No, I own several already.

But I really am just friends w/ women I've slept with, so I think your sarcasm fails.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> No, I own several already.
> 
> But I really am just friends w/ women I've slept with, so I think your sarcasm fails.


You know, I get that. I am friends with all my Exs except my ex wife. And everyone of them would bang my brains out if I snapped my finger. (Including my ex, yuck)

Which is why I don't hang out with them, but mostly it is out of respect for my GF.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

TJW said:


> Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous. My W tells me that they were strictly roommates for about the last 10 years, but they attended things together, like family, etc.
> 
> Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato. Anywhere he's invited with free beer and food, he'll be there....if he can get someone to give him a ride. I get the impression that this is a recent change, that going back, he was productive, held a job, etc.
> 
> I don't know about his relationship to his own family. My Ws family, however, is one which is extremely loyal to their friends, and mostly, they are extreme extroverts who like to have lots of gatherings, meals, etc. It occurs to me that they have a set of relationship standards which always seeks not to "exclude" anyone - the parties get very large


FWB? Yeah...no. I don't blame for wanted this blow hard out of the picture.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> I think being her roommate for 10 years was a better opening than anything likely to come up now and reportedly that was platonic. Maybe they are just friends. The fact that you slept w/ someone doesn't mean you can't be just friends later.


Just friends make no difference to me in this situation. I don't want to be visited regularly by a dude who has carnal knowledge of my W.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> No, I own several already.
> 
> But I really am just friends w/ women I've slept with, so I think your sarcasm fails.


Do the women you slept who have a BF or H know you have slept with their BF and H? If so, do these men know?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> No, I own several already.
> 
> But I really am just friends w/ women I've slept with, so I think your sarcasm fails.


It is still disrespectful to your partner. 

But I'm happy you are pleased being a satellite male to all those women.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TJW said:


> Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous. My W tells me that they were strictly roommates for about the last 10 years, but they attended things together, like family, etc.
> 
> Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato. Anywhere he's invited with free beer and food, he'll be there....if he can get someone to give him a ride. I get the impression that this is a recent change, that going back, he was productive, held a job, etc.
> 
> I don't know about his relationship to his own family. My Ws family, however, is one which is extremely loyal to their friends, and mostly, they are extreme extroverts who like to have lots of gatherings, meals, etc. It occurs to me that they have a set of relationship standards which always seeks not to "exclude" anyone - the parties get very large


Tell her he needs to go. 

And stay gone. 

Or you’re gone.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

TJW said:


> Their relationship was FWB. My W wanted to marry but the guy didn't want it. They lived together off and on because neither of them could afford to be autonomous.
> Mooch is the operative word which describes him. He is a lazy-assed, reefer-blowing, grow-your-own couch potato.


Well this puts things in a different light. He's the one that got away. He's the exciting, irresponsible lover. He's the absolute #1 prospect in a long line of "dudes your wife could possibly have an affair with". There's no other man on Earth that can compete with that guy in the lover category. Especially not you.

*"No, he's not coming over for beers and food. Frankly, I lose respect for you for even wanting to continue hanging out with somebody like that. Plus, by asking me, you're showing you have no respect for me or our relationship."* Then you leave it at that and see what happens.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> It is still disrespectful to your partner.


I disagree, and so does she. 


> But I'm happy you are pleased being a satellite male to all those women.


Perhaps I don't understand this word, I thought it meant orbiting like a satellite and hoping for an opportunity for more sex. If that is what it means, it's not what I am.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Just friends make no difference to me in this situation. I don't want to be visited regularly by a dude who has carnal knowledge of my W.


If you read the post I replied to, he stated this guy was waiting for an opening which seems silly when he lived under the same roof w/ her for 10 years.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Do the women you slept who have a BF or H know you have slept with their BF and H? If so, do these men know?


Syntax the edit confuse?

I think you meant "Do the women you slept with have a BF or H who you know you slept w/ their GF or W?" If this isn't what you meant, please explain.

Replying to what I think you meant: Mostly, yes. I live in a culture where women who aren't virgins don't get stoned to death.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> If you read the post I replied to, he stated this guy was waiting for an opening which seems silly when he lived under the same roof w/ her for 10 years.


Perhaps the OM now sees he should have pursued the OP W more. So, it does not seem silly he may be looking for an opening.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> Syntax the edit confuse?
> 
> I think you meant "Do the women you slept with have a BF or H who you know you slept w/ their GF or W?" If this isn't what you meant, please explain.
> 
> Replying to what I think you meant: Mostly, yes. I live in a culture where women who aren't virgins don't get stoned to death.


Yes, that is what I was asking. Personally, I would not want an old BF of my W hanging around and going to family outings. 

I live in a culture similar to yours. On the east coast. I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs in China.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Perhaps the OM now sees he should have pursued the OP W more. So, it does not seem silly he may be looking for an opening.


I guess anybody *could* be looking to bang her, but given past disinterest this guy doesn't seem like that big of a threat.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> I guess anybody *could* be looking to bang her, but given past disinterest this guy doesn't seem like that big of a threat.


I disagree, past memories and history together create an emotional familiarity.

They can laugh at inside jokes "Remember when you spooged all over me before we went out to supper"

The turd cling on probably would have to do a lot LESS work getting back into her panties than a stranger.

OP needs to let W know that the turd needs a wet wipe. If W objects, OP needs to call up an old GF and start inviting her along to outings. Someone the W knows he was intimate with.

Gotta believe that would get her dander up.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Yes, that is what I was asking. *Personally, I would not want an old BF of my W hanging around and going to family outings.
> *
> I live in a culture similar to yours. On the east coast. I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs in China.


Ideally we aren't trying to give each other advice since neither of us asked for it, apologies if I lost sight of that at some point. TS and his GF seem to have different points of view on exes, yours seems similar to his and mine isn't. I'm providing mine in case it is similar to hers and maybe helps him understand her.

This being a public forum, there may well be "lurkers" who benefit from the discussion as well.

Cheers.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> I guess anybody *could* be looking to bang her, but given past disinterest this guy doesn't seem like that big of a threat.


To me it is not the threat, it is the idea that this other person has had carnal knowledge with my W. The visual imagery if you will. For me, ex GF/BF should remain just that...an ex and gone out of ones life.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> To me it is not the threat, it is the idea that this other person has had carnal knowledge with my W. The visual imagery if you will. For me, ex GF/BF should remain just that...an ex and gone out of ones life.


Thanks for explaining your point of view. 

For me, it doesn't bother me that my wife has exes and I can't be mad at them for liking what I like before I liked it.

Some of my exes I'm happy to have out of my life. Others I think are mostly good people but we weren't the right fit romantically or circumstances weren't right at the time. Some of those are still my friends.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> For me, it doesn't bother me that my wife has exes and I can't be mad at them for liking what I like before I liked it.


It does not bother me my W has exes. I do as well. Have exes hanging around at family events or friends would bother me. It would bother my W as well.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> It does not bother me my W has exes. I do as well. Have exes hanging around at family events or friends would bother me. It would bother my W as well.


It's creepy and weird and ultimately disrespectful. 

But we live in a different age....


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> It's creepy and weird and ultimately disrespectful.
> 
> *But we live in a different age*....


And I refuse to change.....


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I've always found it amazing how life brings around occurrences which show us the exact truth. People can lie with their lips exceedingly well, but their actions, with time, show the underlying thought processes.

"Reefer boy" (I like that  ) just had a stroke and is recuperating in a rehab hospital. Of course, it was my W who told me all about this. She told me that she told him that she was coming to see him. 

I take no joy or pleasure in this man's unfortunate health crisis. I also would not want to deny him access to comfort and support from those close to him at this time of his life. 

I therefore have not made any statements at this time about "him or me" or any demands about her staying away.

But, I have learned, now, the complete truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I was completely and utterly right to interpret these actions as disrespect for me on her part.



dadstartingover said:


> Well this puts things in a different light. He's the one that got away. He's the exciting, irresponsible lover. He's the absolute #1 prospect in a long line of "dudes your wife could possibly have an affair with". There's no other man on Earth that can compete with that guy in the lover category. Especially not you.


This statement could not possibly be more apropos. I am, without any doubt, "Plan B Provider Guy". 

Rewrite the lyrics...."...I'm Mister Used....lah, de dah dah..."


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Screwed up quote...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> I've always found it amazing how life brings around occurrences which show us the exact truth. People can lie with their lips exceedingly well, but their actions, with time, show the underlying thought processes.
> 
> "Reefer boy" (I like that  ) just had a stroke and is recuperating in a rehab hospital. Of course, it was my W who told me all about this. She told me that she told him that she was coming to see him.
> 
> ...


It is your choice on how to handle it... But even with his stroke, I would make that stand. I would pick that hill to die on if I had to. 

Of course, we all abide by your decision, can't really do my else anyway. 

I decided for me a long time ago that I would allow no one to disrespect me every again. I am too old, life is too short, to allow that in my life. 

So that cost me several relationships with women that were OK, some were really nice in fact. But they all knew that one false move, one crazy stunt, anything really that disrespected me in any way, was the end of the relationship. 

Several of them basically freaked out when I ended it, kind of scary really if you have not seen a woman act this way, but they knew the rules. 

But that is just me...


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> I therefore have not made any statements at this time about "him or me" or any demands about her staying away.
> 
> This statement could not possibly be more apropos. I am, without any doubt, "Plan B Provider Guy".


These 2 statements are part of your thought pattern Each one could not exist with out the other.

FWIW, you combat plan B, by making the other plan B and considering plan D, other wise known as a exit.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

TJW said:


> I've always found it amazing how life brings around occurrences which show us the exact truth. People can lie with their lips exceedingly well, but their actions, with time, show the underlying thought processes.
> 
> "Reefer boy" (I like that  ) just had a stroke and is recuperating in a rehab hospital. Of course, it was my W who told me all about this. She told me that she told him that she was coming to see him.
> 
> ...



Are you going to tell your wife that?


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Holy cow! After reading your backstory, it becomes crystal clear that you are not a door mat, you are the dirt underneath the door mat. This is not intended to be a insult, it is a fact.

Your opening post 4 years ago

No, my wife does not respect me. She speaks to me with a scolding, condescending tone of voice. She never misses a single opportunity to point out my faults and weaknesses, while
never once admiring nor complimenting my strengths. Her life-statement of marriage was that she is going to CHANGE me if it's the last thing she does.

No, my wife does not desire me. She avoids me sexually for months on end, while clearly expressing desire for other men.

When you add in all the other statements you wrote, the likelyhood that your wife was faithful is Zero. How in the world do you stay with some one like this? Shall we cue in "but I love her man, sniffle?

You should have been gone 4 years ago. Alas, like so many of the male gender these days, you are ruled by the vagina.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"But, I have learned, now, the complete truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I was completely and utterly right to interpret these actions as disrespect for me on her part."

What did you learn here? Sorry, I don't know your backstory, but what happened other than her wanting to go see him in the hospital that is the "complete truth"?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

TJW said:


> I've always found it amazing how life brings around occurrences which show us the exact truth. People can lie with their lips exceedingly well, but their actions, with time, show the underlying thought processes.
> 
> "Reefer boy" (I like that  ) just had a stroke and is recuperating in a rehab hospital. Of course, it was my W who told me all about this. She told me that she told him that she was coming to see him.
> 
> ...


Don't feel too low about being plan -B, I'm quite sure most of us are living breathing walking Plan -B's. 
Women aren't dumb at all, its all about self preservation, which I get to a degree.

I've come to the harsh reality that I'm a solid plan B as well even though my wife says any different.

My saving grace is my W ex loser was deported, and has started a new life abroad with a new wife and kids in central America hell hole.

If I had found incriminating emails prior to having my two daughters I would have made her pay dearly to have me back in her life. 

c'est la vie

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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

I think that I started out as Plan A, but ended up as Plan D. At this point, I wouldn't be with any woman who had an ongoing friendship or relationship of some sort with an ex. That means he's not an ex. She's orbiting him. Ex's are the most dangerous to a relationship it would seem.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> It is your choice on how to handle it... But even with his stroke, I would make that stand. I would pick that hill to die on if I had to.
> 
> Of course, we all abide by your decision, can't really do my else anyway.
> 
> ...


I’ve had the same experience with such women. Some of them walk around with the delusion that they can do anything they want, hang out with whomever they want, and the boyfriend is not allowed to say a damn thing. How dare a man ask an empowered, modern woman to curtail her commiserations with other men?!

I call bullish!t on it every time, and more often than not that is when I bailed. 

Then they chase my ass for weeks afterwards demanding me to explain how I could have the unmitigated gall to dump them.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Suspicious1 said:


> Don't feel too low about being plan -B, I'm quite sure most of us are living breathing walking Plan -B's.
> Women aren't dumb at all, its all about self preservation, which I get to a degree.


That's exactly what it's about. She would rather spend time with, and have sex with, Reefer Boy. He's an alpha.... However, living with Reefer Boy ain't cute. He doesn't make much money when he works (and, that's not damned often). Mostly, he grows, and blows. She works hard, and works regularly, but her salary is just pretty low. Mostly, with Reefer Boy, she would be the "breadwinner".

C'est une vie.....

Enter Plan B Provider Boy....an option....financially stable, upper-middle-class income, has been on unemployment a few months out of 35 years.
No drug habits at all, no smoke, only occasional beer. However, he's a "beta"...she's not excited about him....and, doesn't care if she ever has sex with him, she only does it once in a while so that he won't leave.

C'est une autre vie....

I think you're right about there being a lot of us "plan Bs". 

When you're beta, you can only have sex through a close relationship or marriage. It requires a courtship period, and investment of your time and your money. The women want to make sure that if they give up their exciting and alluring life, they are going to get something in the bargain.

However, when he's an alpha.....she'll **** him on the first night she's ever seen him. He has no investment, no courtship, no money, hell's bells, she'll even pay for the motel.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> That's exactly what it's about. She would rather spend time with, and have sex with, Reefer Boy. He's an alpha.... However, living with Reefer Boy ain't cute. He doesn't make much money when he works (and, that's not damned often). Mostly, he grows, and blows. She works hard, and works regularly, but her salary is just pretty low. Mostly, with Reefer Boy, she would be the "breadwinner".
> 
> C'est une vie.....
> 
> ...


Well, I think you are starting to get it. This is completely correct. 

This is what you have allowed your life to come to by being weak in this relationship. 

How is that working for you???

It is time to bail on this "woman" that you think you love so much. 

I know you won't believe it, but when you find a woman that really loves you and respects you, your life will be better than you can even imagine. 

Or, you can continue to put up with this crap and be miserable.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

So now that you "know" the important question is what are you going to do about it?

You will get lots of ideas and suggestions here, most likely similar to ideas and suggestions on your other threads; however, these are just that - ideas and suggestions.

No can actually make you do anything, including your 'wife'.

If you want to continue in your life that the way it is, that is up to you. If you want to live the way you are and continue to complain about things, that is up to you.

If you want to break free of the cycle and look out for yourself, that is also up to you.

It is always easier to suggest what should be done to others so take that for what it's worth.

Know that everyone has your best interest at heart despite the harshness of some comments.


Good luck.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

TJW,

You wrote, *"Reefer boy" (I like that ) just had a stroke and is recuperating in a rehab hospital. Of course, it was my W who told me all about this. She told me that she told him that she was coming to see him.

I take no joy or pleasure in this man's unfortunate health crisis. I also would not want to deny him access to comfort and support from those close to him at this time of his life. *

When OM3 went terminal, the 80 years oldish dude, my W wanted to visit him in the hospital, I told her only if I went with her, but she knew where that was headed so she backed off. We went to his funeral her out of respect, me to size up his family. 

I would insist that she not see him without you.

Tamat


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

TJW said:


> That's exactly what it's about. She would rather spend time with, and have sex with, Reefer Boy. He's an alpha.... However, living with Reefer Boy ain't cute. He doesn't make much money when he works (and, that's not damned often). Mostly, he grows, and blows. She works hard, and works regularly, but her salary is just pretty low. Mostly, with Reefer Boy, she would be the "breadwinner".
> 
> C'est une vie.....
> 
> ...


Umm, I say plan B mainly because the love of my wife's life as much as he may cry and proclaim his undying loves for her, and she do the same can't do much about it but say hello every so often. Tick tock.

She has been warned, her mother has been firmly warned as well. I might love her, but I will not stay iddle if either of them slips up.

I don't know this guy, but have read many of his emails. I can't tell you if he's an Alpha male or not. What I can tell you what I'm about. 
I have his address, I know who his wife is, and a few other personal information of his. 
The pg version is would send daily mail to his home with copies of the email, I'll contact his wife tell her all about their communications. As I recently found out they seem have heated arguments about my wife in the past .  this retro emails but they hold a wealth of ammunition.

S1


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Suspicious1 said:


> Umm, I say plan B mainly because the love of my wife's life as much as he may cry and proclaim his undying loves for her, and she do the same can't do much about it but say hello every so often. Tick tock.
> 
> She has been warned, her mother has been firmly warned as well. I might love her, but I will not stay iddle if either of them slips up.
> 
> ...


So i guess the question is -- WHY haven't you sent these emails/info to the POSOM wife? Did she cheat on you with him?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

jlg07 said:


> So i guess the question is -- WHY haven't you sent these emails/info to the POSOM wife? Did she cheat on you with him?


I want current info/email/ PM/DM, messenger pigeon, smoke signal, but has to be current for ultimate impact to drive my point in deep.

As far as I know it's only been EA,10 years ago. It was some what innocently enough but it is what I call it EA.

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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

TJW, have you ever asked your wife if you were friends with an ex lover woudl she be okay.....do you think if you kicked the bucket before her, that she would take this guy back into her life?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Lostinthought61 said:


> TJW, have you ever asked your wife if you were friends with an ex lover woudl she be okay...


No, because that question is completely rhetorical. My wife will never be disrespected like that by me. However, I can almost guarantee that she would not be "okay" at all.



Lostinthought61 said:


> ..do you think if you kicked the bucket before her, that she would take this guy back into her life?


No. He's too disabled now to have any kind of relationship except caregiver/patient.

What I believe she would do is to find another "alpha", because her financial security would be in place with her inheritance. She could then have someone she actually wanted for her husband.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

TJW,

Knowing who you are right at this moment doesn't mean you have to stay there.

Your life is what you make it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> TJW,
> 
> Your life is what you make it.




That's difficult to me. I think, that if I left, and married another woman, the result would only be the same. I have some control over the outcome....but I cannot morph myself into a confident, self-assured, handsome "10" who that woman, or any other woman, would desire and want, except to fill the role of supply guy. 

Enduring the financial hardship and turmoil of a divorce would have, ultimately, no benefit. I'm the guy to whom the ladies come for a crying shoulder, when their alpha dumps them.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

TJW said:


> No, because that question is completely rhetorical. My wife will never be disrespected like that by me. However, I can almost guarantee that she would not be "okay" at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then TJW stay healthy and out live her...lol


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

TJW said:


> That's difficult to me. I think, that if I left, and married another woman, the result would only be the same. I have some control over the outcome....but I cannot morph myself into a confident, self-assured, handsome "10" who that woman, or any other woman, would desire and want, except to fill the role of supply guy.
> 
> Enduring the financial hardship and turmoil of a divorce would have, ultimately, no benefit. I'm the guy to whom the ladies come for a crying shoulder, when their alpha dumps them.


You surly can't believe this! I'm never graduated high school and make more money than allot of my coworkers and friends that have put half their lives in educational institutions. Not that makes me any better than anyone else but you gotta have some confidence my friend . You were not born to made feel like sponge, especially someone who took an oath to love you. Life can be beautiful or can be ruthless yes, but I like to think we have some sort of control.

Unless you like being a door mat, and prefer such treatment from your wife. If do ignore the above.

Best of luck

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

TJW said:


> That's difficult to me. I think, that if I left, and married another woman, the result would only be the same. I have some control over the outcome....but I cannot morph myself into a confident, self-assured, handsome "10" who that woman, or any other woman, would desire and want, except to fill the role of supply guy.
> 
> Enduring the financial hardship and turmoil of a divorce would have, ultimately, no benefit. I'm the guy to whom the ladies come for a crying shoulder, when their alpha dumps them.


Then cut this woman out of your life. Cut romantic entanglements out of your life. The one you are with now and all future ones. 

There are many men who realize they are not cut out for relationships who go on to live happy, productive and satisfying lives. Just go and be the person you are and forget about dating and romance. No one NEEDs those things. They are nice, but there are other means and methods of finding fulfillment. 

Why would you stay with a woman who does not desire you nor respect you?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Why would you stay with a woman who does not desire you nor respect you?


"It's cheaper to keep her"....



bandit.45 said:


> there are other means and methods of finding fulfillment.


And, some of those things are possible now for me because I am not faced with a settlement in which I will have to relinquish half of my assets, and give away a large percentage of my future income. I understand, most of them would still be possible if I left. But,

the end result is quite the same, stay, or go. None of those fulfillments will make me desirable and attractive to a woman. By and large, it seems to me over decades of observation, that women are attracted to those men who treat them like crap. And, I simply cannot be that kind of a person, no matter what I "get" for it.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

TJW said:


> "It's cheaper to keep her"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then I think the only real choice you have here, since you won't leave, is to detach. Do things for YOURSELF not your wife. Minimize your interactions with her so that you stop getting hurt. SHE certainly won't help your situation, so you are the only one who can. Do your own hobbies, get working out, get a set of friends for yourself (meetup.com, etc.).


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Seems like a lonely life. 

So do you want us to help you figure out how to be happy and fulfilled within the context of a loveless, unfulfilling marriage? That's going to be hard for most of the posters on TAM.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> That's difficult to me. I think, that if I left, and married another woman, the result would only be the same. I have some control over the outcome....but I cannot morph myself into a confident, self-assured, handsome "10" who that woman, or any other woman, would desire and want, except to fill the role of supply guy.
> 
> Enduring the financial hardship and turmoil of a divorce would have, ultimately, no benefit. I'm the guy to whom the ladies come for a crying shoulder, when their alpha dumps them.


You know what, I am not going to let you talk about yourself this way and not give you some S*** for it. 

Brother, this is wrong headed. This is wrong in every way for you to think this way. 

I am not a 10, not sure if I have ever been one. I am not rich. I am a good guy. I have women hit on me every day. it has nothing to do with that stuff. If you are over weight, lose the weight. Dress nicer, or whatever you need to do to feel good about yourself. 

The number one thing you should do is get rid of this woman, and start living a better life for yourself...


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> So do you want us to help you figure out how to be happy and fulfilled within the context of a loveless, unfulfilling marriage? That's going to be hard for most of the posters on TAM.


No, I mainly posted because I wanted to know how others felt about her ex-inclusion. I felt disrespected, I can see that many others would also. 

And, there are a few who wouldn't, perhaps they are among the most self-assured people on here, IDK. I have learned from this discussion that I am not unique, nor am I unreasonable, about this.

I think trying to help someone be fulfilled and happy in that kind of a marriage would be very hard for anyone, even the professional counselors probably would throw up their hands and say "divorce".

It is a reasonable conclusion.... because my dilemma seems like an impasse.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It's an impasse only because you refuse to address it.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

TJW said:


> No, I mainly posted because I wanted to know how others felt about her ex-inclusion. I felt disrespected, I can see that many others would also.
> 
> And, there are a few who wouldn't, perhaps they are among the most self-assured people on here, IDK.




This might be it. To me, all of the people who would feel disrespected or that something untoward is going on with such a far past ex seem really insecure.

I know I brought her up before, but my very best friend who happens to be an ex of mine has been a key person in my life, and my family never stopped loving her, nor she them. She and her wife were very present for my me when my father passed away, and very present for my mom in her final years.

And for those who say that somebody being an ex makes present sexual activity with said ex more likely, I couldn't disagree more. Once somebody is an ex, they are an ex, at least for me. I have zero desire for them sexually. The things I valued in them don't disappear, however.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

TJW said:


> That's difficult to me. I think, that if I left, and married another woman, the result would only be the same. I have some control over the outcome....but I cannot morph myself into a confident, self-assured, handsome "10" who that woman, or any other woman, would desire and want, except to fill the role of supply guy.
> 
> Enduring the financial hardship and turmoil of a divorce would have, ultimately, no benefit. I'm the guy to whom the ladies come for a crying shoulder, when their alpha dumps them.


Honestly TJW that is a really sad way to go through life....after all the crap your wife has put you through, why you are still invested in this marriage, if i were you i would concentrate on my own needs, and distance yourself from her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

introvert said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> This might be it. To me, all of the people who would feel disrespected or that something untoward is going on with such a far past ex seem really insecure.
> 
> ...


I am sorry buy everything you said here is complete crap.

The men here are not insecure, at least I am not, because we have a problem with what his WIFE is doing. 

No actually, what people like you don't understand, is that men like me do not allow our women to hang around with ex lovers, or obiters, BECAUSE IT IS DISRESPECTFUL to us. 

In fact, unlike OP is doing, if a woman I was dating or married to did this, her bags would be on the front porch when she got home. 

And for me at least, I would have a new woman the very next day, or that night if I had time. 

We are not afraid to get people out of our lives that do these things to us. However, this is usually not a big problem for me because the women I am with want to be with me, they want to have sex with me and they are not stupid enough to do these types of things. 

But if they ever did, out with the old in with the knew...


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