# Strange reaction!



## Introubledeep

My marriage is in big trouble.

I have had a big awakening recently just how messed up it is. I have been in a codependant relationship, with me as the emotionally abused partner. Short version is that I have made the decision that this is going to stop now. No going back. We either fix our marriage or end it.

I went to see a Marriage Counsellor today for the first time ever. I did not even tell my wife I was going. Gotta start somewhere, and I figure I can have some influence and control over my actions, so that is a good place to start.

When I got home, conversation went like this;

Wife: Where have you been?

Me: I went to see a marriage Counsellor.

Wife: Why? (mildly surprised tone)

Me: I have some problems and this marriage isn't working for me, so I went to a marriage Counsellor.

Wife: Do you want to get a divorce? (Very even matter of fact tone)

Me: I didn't say that. I have some problems and this marriage isn't working for me, so I went to see a marriage Counsellor. I am going back next week, I want you to invite you to come along with me.

Wife: Why?

Me: This marriage isn't working for me. Will you come to Counselling with me?

Wife: Why didn't you tell me?

Me: I am, I am telling you now.

Wife: How long have you felt this way?

Me: A looong time.

Total silence. More total silence. Still more total silence. I figure this conversation is obvioulsy done so I go and do something else. Didn't expect that. I was waiting for a tirade of abuse...it didn't happen. I expected to be threatened with the divorce gun, wifes favourite weapon of choice to force me back into grovelling subservient position when conflict gets serious...worked a treat for her for years, but its not gonna work now. Perhaps she intuitively senses something has changed (women seem to have the keenest sense of intuition, danged if I can understand it!!!)

We haven't spoken since other than "Would you like a cup of coffee?" and "would you like some pizza for dinner?" Deep and meaningful stuff:rofl:

I still don't have a clue if she is going to Counselling with me or not, strangely I don't really care either way. At least I have about 9 days to get an answer...if she chooses to answer at all.

What do you think this strange reaction means?:scratchhead: 

Could this all be over so easily? If it is, it is sad, but it would be an immense relief to know where my life is going now.


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## tacoma

I don't know your back story. It it doesn't take the mythical female intuition to tell there's something different this time.

I think she's just trying to gauge your attitude before being drawn into the discussion/counseling.

Give it a day or so and ask her if she has given any thought about going to MC with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanglingDaisy

Personally I think it's a good sign

If you've been the one being abused...the fact that you shocked her with the fact you're NOT putting up with it-and seeking counselling...

GOOD FOR YOU!!

STICK TO YOUR GUNS. 

She's waiting to see if you'll slide back to your old "take her abusive crap" self...

She might even try to pick fights in order to put you back in your place...

Reality is, if she's been the abuser,it WORKED FOR HER. To expect her to give it up without a fight when she's been getting what she wants all this time-is dillusional 

If you won't take her crap any more-and want a better life for yourself-use the D(divorce) word. Step out of your comfort zone as much as possible and lay down YOUR expectations of her that would lead to what you feel will be a "good" partnership. The first things you need to do,is show her you're evaluating all her interactions and what she's doing to hurt you. Be honest with her about what YOU'VE done to enable her-and how that will change.


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## EleGirl

How's it going? Fill us in on how things have been the last few days...


Also, do not move out of the marital home until you clear it with an attorney. There are things that you will need to do like see about getting a child custody and visitation plan in place. You can have an attorney file it when they file for divorce, for 50/50 custody. There will be child support as well.

You should move half of all money out of joint accounts ... but the timing of this is important.

So what's up?


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## Introubledeep

So, whats up?

Wife is acting strange, yesterday she went to speak to an old lady she knows, presumably to discuss issues...probably a really good thing. She has never done this before that I know of. I must have really unsettled her.

Today I went out and got information about rental properties available. I didn't want to go home, spent most of the day in town, in a park, visited a friend from my church and had a good talk to him. Eventually I decided to go home, and I prepared myself for a frank discussion with my wife about my thoughts of moving out.

The second I came home and put my things down, she literally POUNCED on them. Strange reaction, she doesn't normally give a ________ what I am doing. There was no hiding that there were lists of available rentals. She asked me "Are you moving out?"

I told her "Yes I am thinking about moving out".

She asked me "Are you seeing someone?"

I told her no I am not (thank god I can have a clear conscience on this one...albeit I will need to discuss the near thing with an affair when the time is right.)

She said something like "I had no idea you were so unhappy. I thought that you loved me and accepted me just as I am".

I said something like, "I didn't say that I don't love you, but I have some big problems with our marriage and I can not and will not go on with things the way they are. Either we fix our marriage or end it. I needed to sort things out in my head so I went to see a marriage Consellor and I am going back again next week, and I am inviting you to come along so we can discuss the issues in an honest and constructive way. Will you come with me to Marriage Conselling?"

She said "Why can't we just discuss these things together? We are adults, we don't need to go to a Counsellor." My immediate thoughts were, she is trying to isolate me and bring me back under control...pretty dam sure of it actually.

I said "No, it isn't going to work, the issues are way to serious for me to be able to express without things getting really toxic, and me saying things I will regret. I want a very frank and constructive discussion, and I believe I need the support of a marriage Counsellor to ensure that it doesn't spiral out of control"

She then started along the lines of "I thought you loved me and needed me and that you couldn't live without me, and I guess I took advantage of that." (WOW, could have knocked me down with a feather with that one)

I said "Yes you did, you took advantage of me absolutely RUTHLESSLY. Now you are starting to get to the core of the problems. In the past I did need you, but I don't need you any more. I am not saying that I don't love you, but I don't need you. Either this marraige radically changes or it ends, but I will not tolerate it remaining the same. Do you understand?"

She then opened up to me and openly told me that she was very aware that since our daughter was conceived, and after she was born that sleeping in bed with my daughter (8 yrs old) instead of me was impacting on our relationship, and that she had sexually starved me. She admitted that she felt very guilty about this, and that she intended to get medically checked up to make sure that there was not physical reason for her lack of sexual desire (heard this BS many times, she never does anything to see a doctor).

She then opened up to me that my anger outbursts were the main thing that made her not want to be close to me. (NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE:smthumbup

I then opened up and told her that I was well aware that I had anger issues. My whole heart and mind is full of anger, dissappointment, unfulfillment, and I know that rage will just explode out of me at little things. I try to control it, but it comes out in just about every area of my life at times. My marriage has been a living hell for the last 10 years (I literally told her those exact words). I have pretended to be as content as I could, but the result is all this suppressed anger. I can't do it anymore. I need Counselling to deal with this anger issue regardless of what happens to our marriage. All this supressed anger is not good for me, for you, for our daughter, I need to get help.

She then started down the track of "Our daughter needs us to stay together more than anything else etc etc". It was a blatant attempt to lay a guilt trip on me and make me back away. It doesn't work any more.

I told her that this was another MAJOR issue we need to discuss, the true welfare of our daughter, and how her behaviour is impacting very badly on our daughter.

She was a bit puzzled at this one. I would not go into it any further, I simply told her that we need to go to a marriage Counsellor so that this could all be explained by an expert, it was too complicated for me to explain.

She then made a 100% commitment to go to a marriage Counsellor to talk things through, and expressed her deepest desire to keep our marriage together. She told me that she just wants us to keep the sweet parts alive and heal the pain. 

If only it was that simple.

The positives:

I have learned to apply assertiveness to my relationship with my wife...this is a MAJOR breakthrough for me. (I have very few problems with this in most other area of my life, so I had the skills, I just needed to get the balls to take my wife on, head on, and it worked. I had to get to the place where I don't care if she pulls the divorce gun on me...I am there)

My wife is displaying a totally radically different demeanour towards me...a hint of respect, a hint of warmth and concern, I haven't seen that for years. (I am very wary though, I am so not going to get sucked in by a temporary display...am I being harsh?)

My wife understands that I am not playing around, and I think she knows that this WILL end in divorce unless big changes are made.

The negatives:

I dont think that she has the capacity to make big enough changes quickly enough to recover this. I can not endure any more emotional abuse, I am at the end of my tether.

I don't know that I have the capacity to forgive 10 years of dissappointment, emotional abuse, being humiliated and ridiculed in front of my mother, father, daughter, friends, having my needs ignored, being told I am worthless etc (All of these people have at various times asked me "How do you put up with that from your wife?")

Being honest, divorce sure looks like the easy path for me. I can't do this anymore, I am broken. I don't have the strength to do this. IT is only going to happen if god gives me the strength, which I believe is possible, AND, I make the commitment to do it...that will probably be the stumbling block I think. The other vital ingredient will be a major commitment by my wife to break all her patterns of manipulation and control, and she learns to respect my boundaries...I WILL NOT TOLERATE BEING ABUSED...NO MORE.

I think the next Counselling session is going to be a lively one.

P.S I am putting the moving out plan on hold at least until we do the next Marriage Counselling session. I hope I am not being too weak. Weaknes is power to a manipulator.


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## Introubledeep

Sorry to be such a hog of my thread, but I just gotta have my say. I guess I am finding this forum is a partial therapy, a chance to express my emotions without harming anyone. Besides, who knows, maybe sharing my experiences might help somebody else, or at least provide some entertainment.

Interesting reactions going on inside my heart. 

I see how my dignity, self-respect, my whole manhood has been violated by my wifes blatant disrespect for me over the last 15 years.

I also see how dismally I have failed to be the leader in this marriage. I have failed terribly, I am ashamed. I SHOULD have confronted my wifes bad behaviour very early in our marriage, should have made my last and final stand if necessary...then...not 15 years later. I should have told her point blank that I would not tolerate being abused and ridiculed and that I would gladly be divorced rather than submit to her abuse.

I feel emotionally violated, degraded, humiliated, I have been made a fool of. More accurately I have allowed myself to be a fool, perhaps more accurately I should say I have chosen to be a fool, albeit by default because I didn't know any better at the time.

I feel burning anger inside, different to any other anger I have ever felt, a strange physical heat in my chest and a burning sensation across the top of my head, it is an actual physical sensation, I am shaking with rage. I am so angry at my wife for treating me so badly, but I am even more angry at myself for allowing her to do it. At the same time, for the first time in my life I am seeing where my internal anger is coming from. I have struggled and struggled with explosive temper outbursts (always directed at physical things not people), and I have been racked with guilt and shame over this, but I NEVER EVEN KNEW WHERE IT WAS COMING FROM...until now. I feel liberated, freed, like a man released from a deep dark dungeon.

Having said that, I liken my situation to creating nuclear power. Sure you need a reaction to create lots of heat to produce power (the power to change my life for the better), but a seething mass of white hot raging molten radio active material melting through the floor of the reactor is probably not the plan, and it is certainly a frightening thing. I am going to have to be very very careful not to have a chernobyl experience. God help me. I sure hope god has some real big and tough asbestos gloves to catch the molten material and protect those around me, and avoid my total destruction. The reaction has started, I can't put the fire out now, I just have to live through this and do everything I can to avoid hurting others as I work this through. If I survive this, I am going to be a better man for it.

Can anyone else relate to this, or am I just weird?


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## DanglingDaisy

It looks like you have similar anger management issues that my partner did earlier on. I would hope it's not common for men,or men here to bottle up their frustration and have an emotional blow out when the vulcano erupts?

With your admission that you've physically hit things(but never people)means you need to see a counsellor NOW about dealing with bottling your emotions.

I can say from 14yrs in a common law partnership,I've seen my guy go from hitting things, to almost hitting ME last summer(my quick thinking -thought process distraction- thwarted it:nono:).

His anger management issues have not been good for our three kids. Our 11&13yr old sons have seen him blow over what most would call the dumbest things(I'm not saying his feelings are dumb by any means),but what child deserves to grow up on eggshells wondering if they'll be the next target?

Last summer when my hubby had his biggest melt down EVER. He wanted to go to his aunt's wedding(two weeks before the wedding). He had a year to save,didn't,got angry,blamed ME for the money not being readily available,worked himself up into a tizzy, went dillusional claiming we didn't have that money saved because I'm a drug addict:scratchhead: Told his family he needed to borrow the money because I was such a horrible person who blew all the money on drugs! He trashed me to the kids,and told them they were going to the wedding, THEN had his parents babysit the kids for the summer(which none of the kids wanted to go-they were afraid he'd take them away from me and never bring them back). 

My daughter(who's 4), was crying last night thinking back to last summer. She was forced to stay with grandparents who were complete strangers to her and still has abandonment issues!!

Don't say your anger will never get out of control. It's my partner's anger management issues that has torn this family apart-it WASN'T always this way-but it does get worse for the indivdual as well as his family if he doesn't address the emotions/thought processes that bring him to that breaking point.

With my partner,his anger itself isn't the problem per say,it's that he works himself into a tizzy(probably mental put downs,justifications in his head),and directs his anger and RESENTMENT towards ME. It's heartwrenching to be with someone who will trash his partner's name and has for years,or almost punch her in the face with a sick look of joy&resentment(like a "you deserve this you f'n biotch").

BTW I have ALWAYS supported my partner's dreams,tried all these years to pump up my partner's self esteem/respect and tried my best to show him my love and respect. In return, I have gotten nothing but blow ups and red herring excuses. His issue is the SAME as yours. He doesn't stand up for himself with anyone really, and at the end of the day-his partner and kids are the ones who pay for his lack of backbone.


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## Introubledeep

Thanks for your feedback. I know I need to get some help for my anger issue, and I am seeking that help. However, I wish to defend myself against some of your accusations. No disrespect intended, but I am not your partner, and I am not guilty of doing everything that he did, and my problems probably don't stem from the same causes. He seems to have a multitude of issues going on, and I really feel for you, it must be incredibly hard and painful. Has he ever been psychologically assessed?

I certainly don't have most of the other behaviour you have described about your partner , verbally abusing, bad-mouthing, telling false stories. Of course I have my perception of what happened about things and this will always have a bias, but I don't make up baseless and false stories, in fact I try to avoid telling stories that put my wife in a negative light. I have "let it all hang out" on this forum because of the anonymity, and the hope that I may get some good help and advice...which I certainly have, including your advice to seek professional help about my repressed anger issues. And yes, I share your concerns, I hope that not too many others find themselves in the state I have lived in for the last 10 years, it is very unhealthy.

In my case, I guess about once every 3 months I lose my cool, I usually go and do some hard physical work to release the anger, eg cut down a dead tree with an axe, or break up some unwanted concrete with a sledge hammer. On about 6 occasions over the last 10 years I have lost it and broken something. Once I threw a dinner plate on the floor. I usually get as far as the shed (about 100 metres from my house) and then lose it. I try not to do it within earshot or sight of my family and I don't want them to see this. I am not trying to do this behaviour to intimidate, I just lose control. I am aware that it is intimidating, but that is not why I do it. Actually up till about a week ago I didn't know where the repressed anger was even coming from...I do now, and what a huge relief to get this understanding.

As for "never standing up for myself", I don't think I have major problems with this in most areas of my life...I could not do my job without being very assertive (balanced by the fact that I can not be aggressive either, I do understand the difference between being assertive and being aggressive.) My occupation is highly confrontational and masculine in its nature, there is no place for whimps in my work place, men can and do die in my line of work. 

In my private life I have been heavily involved in spearheading community campaigns to address a major community/political issue, a highly confrontational position that has generated a lot of heat from people in positions of power...I know those who I have locked horns with in this arena would not say that I was spineless, quite the opposite. I can safely say that I am seen as a community leader in this role. I genuinely do not think it is accurate to portray me as a spineless whimp who never stands up for himself, I think that is harsh, and you are probably speaking out of your own bitter experiences and projecting those experiences onto me.

However, I have definately had major problems with being assertive in my relationship with my wife, and I have paid a heavy price for that, 10 years of being her emotional doormat. 10 years of bottling up and trying to control my pain, 10 years of frustration and desperation 10 years of having all of my emotional and sexual needs denied.

I am angry at her for emotionally abusing me, but I am far more angry at myself for creating the situation where this pressure cooker could go on getting hotter and hotter. I should have taken my wife on, head on, early in my marriage and made my stand, my last stand if necessary. I SHOULD have made it clear that I would not tolerate being abused or it would end in a divorce. I should have called her bluff when she ridiculed me, humiliated me, manipulated me, and then threatened me with the divorce gun when I tried to stand up to her. However, I was tortured and racked by fundamentalist christian beliefs (thankfully most of which I have sifted and I have disposed of the toxic crap) that divorce was never acceptable under any circumstances and marriage must be held together "at any cost". My wife knew and understood this part of my makeup, and coldly and ruthlessly exploited it to control me. Yes, I was a spineless whimp in this realm, but not without a reason (flawed as the logic was...I see that now).

Right now, I am much calmer. I see I have a hard road ahead, and huge amends to make to my wife. I have done plenty of wrong and my actions can't be excused, but they are not without very substantial provocation. (If you read my other threads you will see where I am coming from). The first thing I need to do now is be 100% completely open and honest with my wife and tell her about my darkest side, the whole truth. If she finds this truth too hard to accept, and she chooses to reject me for showing my flawed side, so be it. If she can forgive me and accept me "warts and all", I think we can move on in a positive direction. I intend to lead in our marriage as I should (definately a biblically sound principle!), if she will follow me. The first rule will be no emotional abuse will be tolerated. If we get to this point, I think we have a future together that is much brighter than the past 10 years. IF we don't get to this point, we get divorced and I can move on with my life. Either option is better than living in an emotionally abusive relationship.

As I said in my previous posts, I can now work on the repressed anger issue, and I will be a better man for it... with or without my wife.


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## EleGirl

Introubledeep,

So why do you think that your wife chose to withhold sex from you? Why did she choose an abusive route and yet stay with you?


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## DanglingDaisy

I relayed to you the history behind my relationship,because I want you to see how anger can manifest...twist and turn ugly.

My partner has grappled with religion too-another part that has torn us apart in many ways. I won't get into that aspect of things...too long of a story

From a wife who has been dealing with a manipulative emotionally controlling partner, I have come ALONG WAY from the meek codependant I once was  Take heed, if you want to control your anger fits, starts determining and negotiating what YOU WANT in your relationship. Determine where you want YOUR life to go with or without her. You know her well enough to figure out how to stop her interactions/reactions that will benefit you better....but you choose to be meek...why?

When you're having an outburst, what are you feeling/thinking? I have a feeling you're focusing on all the negative, how she's done you wrong, or said something to disemplower/hurt you...you're focused on being angry...how is this benefiting you?

Believe it or not, we do what works for us *at the time*. 

A little background-with my abusive childhood, I learned to not stir the pot and anger already volatile indivduals. I brought that to my marriage. I TOO learned to avoid confrontation,be agreeable and "go with the flow" of what others wanted/needed.

Whether it's learned behavior from the past,religious insertions,a combination of both, you need to IDENTIFY who you are,what you need and how you will productively handle these negative emotions/situations. Even though you say you're only like this in your home life, point is, you ALLOW yourself to be this way. My partner has NEVER been aggressive at work-he leaves that for the comforts of home-with someone who will put up with it.

If you weren't getting something out of being this way-you wouldn't continue-except your bottle is overflowing with anger,resent,hurt and a whole slew of things it can't contain any more. You have a choice here-change yourself to be the person you want/need to be in all aspects of your life,or continue being the victim of your marriage...


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## Introubledeep

EleGirl said:


> Introubledeep,
> 
> So why do you think that your wife chose to withhold sex from you? Why did she choose an abusive route and yet stay with you?


I don't think my wife made a conscious decision "I will withold sex", I think she is just living out what she actually feels towards me, dissappointment, disinterest, no respect, and finally no concern or interest in my well being. No emotional connection = no sexual desire. She genuinely seems to think that no sexual desire is normal.:scratchhead:

I don't think that she consciously chose the "abusive path" either. I think it was some sort of strange survival mechanism from hurts from her childhood. She doesn't say much, but I gather her parents were quite neglectful and unemotional towards her as a child. I won't even pretend to understand her issues, I am not qualified to say, but I do believe she has some deep issues with being very insecure, but it is tightly wrapped in a steel plated armour. When she feels threatened, I feel the steel, it is hard and cold, and there is no penetrating it, and when she is in "steel" mode there is no mercy, no compassion, no understanding, no forgiving, no reasoning, just ruthless cold hard steel. This is not how she is 99.9% of the time, only when things get heated and serious between us.

She is not abusive all the time, only when I confront her, or express myfears/doubts/concerns/frustration/anger/disappointment, or for some reason known only to her when we are at major family gatherings she will humiliate me.

My wife has not worked since we got married. She has not ever held a job since coming to my country, and I think the reality is that it would be difficult for her to find a job, especially a well paid job because english is her second language. She understands almost 100%, but other people find it hard to understand her when she speaks. I believe she chose to stay with me for the simple reason of economic expediency. I have always worked hard to provide for my family and always provided our economic needs, a home, a car, food, clothing, and a few luxuries when we can afford them. It is not easy living on a single income, but I have always provided.

I also think that she is now living out her emotional needs through my daughter, and the key to that continuing unabated is ensuring that I stick around to provide the home and financial resources. She also knows how much my daughter loves me, and my wife understands that if I was to leave it would hurt our daughter, so she feels that she has to allow me to be around. I know this is very damaging too, we are going to have a showdown over this in the coming days and weeks, possibly the final showdown. It was one thing when my wife was hurting me and I chose to endure it, but I can't stand by now that it is hurting my daughter.

As dangling daisy pointed out, I have been a victim, a victim of my own beliefs and ideas. I felt absolutley powerless when I would confront my wife, and she would go into "steel" mode and threaten me with divorce. I am not going to be a victim anymore. The greatest empowerment to reclaim my life, which I have only recently gained, is to see the abuse for what it is, to make the decision that I will not tolerate it ever again, and the willingness to call my wifes threats of divorce. I have made the decision that this situation will not continue, there is going to be change. I am making concrete steps to ensure it happens, and if it ends in divorce that is OK - that was a difficult place to get to. The key to it was doing exactly what dangling daisy suggested - find out who I really am and what I really want, be honest about what I am feeling, and standing up for my rights to be treated with dignity and respect.

I know I have lots of things to work through, but I feel strong and confident, that I am on the right path now.


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## Introubledeep

DanglingDaisy said:


> When you're having an outburst, what are you feeling/thinking? I have a feeling you're focusing on all the negative, how she's done you wrong, or said something to disemplower/hurt you...you're focused on being angry...how is this benefiting you?
> 
> 
> If you weren't getting something out of being this way-you wouldn't continue-except your bottle is overflowing with anger,resent,hurt and a whole slew of things it can't contain any more. You have a choice here-change yourself to be the person you want/need to be in all aspects of your life,or continue being the victim of your marriage...


When I was having an angry outburst, I didn't know what I was thinking, I wasn't thinking, I was only feeling consumed with uncontrollable anger, followed by terrible remorse and shame. Until about 2 weeks ago I genuinely did not know where the anger was coming from, I didn't even know why I was so angry. I do now. It is liberating, it is empowering, I have a choice now, and I have made a choice now!

I am going to deal with my demons, I am going to seek ways to heal myself, and change to be a better man. I am going to be treated with the basic dignity and respect that I deserve (same as all people deserve), or I am leaving. It is very simple really, it is just that it was a very difficult journey to arrive at this place. It is a great feeling!


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## EleGirl

When did you first start to have this built up anger? Did you have it before your marriage and thus bring it into your marriage? Or is it your reaction to the problems in your marriage?

About your wife's English. Couldn't she take some classes to improve your English diction/accent? This is important to her as she is going to need to get a job if there is a divorce. She should probably get a job either way. Seriously. A large part of her issues could be that she is so dependent on you that this alone causes her anxiety.


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## Introubledeep

EleGirl said:


> When did you first start to have this built up anger? Did you have it before your marriage and thus bring it into your marriage? Or is it your reaction to the problems in your marriage?
> QUOTE]
> 
> I can see that to some extent I have had problems with repressing my feelings for all of my life, but nothing like what I have been doing over the last 8 years.
> 
> Having said that, I recall a totally different dynamic with my first serious girl friend. This relationship came to a bad end, however, this relationship had a very sweet and genuine side to it for most of that time. If I expressed my fears or doubts about myself or the future or my ability to solve a problem, she would stand beside me 100%. I could be honest, and she would support me and not lash out at me or go on the attack, this lovely woman never did this. I vividly remember telling her some of my greatest fears and she held me and we cried together, and then she resolutely told me, "We can do this together, I am with you." This was one of the sweetest moments of my life; I was honest and I was emotionally vulnerable, and I received acceptance, love and support. I long for this kind of relationship. In this relationship I had very few problems with repressed anger, I could express my views, be accepted, and still be respected and cared for.
> 
> The short answer is I think to some extent I brought the behaviour of repressing anger, or at least the tendancy to do so by avoiding conflict, into the marriage, but I wasn't angry at my wife early in our marriage. The situation I found myself in caused it to escalate. I guess I would assign 30% of the cause to my aversion to facing conflict in personal relationships, 70% on the situation I found myself in. I now hold myself 100% accountable for not dealing with the issues firmly and decisively early in our marriage, and this hurts me more than just about anything else. I now see how much pain I could have avoided myself, and my wife, if I had been strong at the start of our marriage. I should have made my stand then and stood my ground.


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## EleGirl

I agree that you hold a lot of the responsibility for not handling the situtation well, holding in anger and other feelings, etc. 

So beat yourself up on this for a day or so and then move on. Find a way to handle your anger. There are things you can do. One is to acknowledge it to start with. The other is to find healthy ways to get it out of your system before any one issue gets too big... exercise is one good way.

Apparently your wife has a hard time handling things when you express your own vulnerability. She probably depends on you to be the strong one and thus cannot be supportive of you because it scares her... so she turns on you when you show vulnerability.

You are looking for a more equal partner in marriage. Your wife seems to expect a guy who is more like a father in this respect.. a man who shows no vulnerability and handles it all.

This is something you will need to discuss with your counselor. You need ways to handle this and an outlet for yourself when you are feeling vulnerable. It's possible that your wife could become that person, but it's a role that she will need to grow into.

She will need to learn that you being vulnerable does not mean weak.. it does not mean that she is in jeapordy when you are vulnerable. She will also need to learn how to respond. 

Have you talked to her about the way you would like her to respond when you are down and feeling vulnerable?

This is a real growth opportunity for you and your wife if the two of you are up to going through it together.

But in order for you two to go through you will both have to forgive each other your past misdeeds. You are both flawed and did not handle things well at times. But keep in mind that no one is perfect in marriage. Every marriage is unique because the two people who make up the marriage are unique.

Always come from love.


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## Introubledeep

My wife and I went to see a marriage Counsellor today, together for the first time.

This is my experience. I can't say that it is the final truth, but it is how I saw things, it is a mans view. It sometimes amazes me how differently men and women see the same things.

I can not stress enough just how helpful it is to have a professional who knows what they are talking about to sort through issues in a damaged marriage. I respect people with technical skills, and I have no problem seeing and recognising their technical skills in the physical realm; If you need a diesel mechanic, you call a diesel mechanic. However, I previously would never have believed that anybody could actually have the equivalent of "technical skills" in dealing with the emotional realm. Until today logical and emotional things seems to be in two different worlds that only partially coincided together. I am very impressed with the Counsellor, she keeps it really simple and practical, and gets to the heart of things really quickly with just a few well guided questions, it almost seems like some sort of magic that penetrates the darkness, confusion, and fog. 

Then the truth starts to come out, most I already knew and I have begun to deal with, some I didn't, some uncomfortable stuff, some unexpectedly comforting stuff. 

The Counsellor then put all of this stuff into a logical and practical framework that even an emotional dummy like me can understand and make sense of. Suddenly it is logical...I like logical, I think most people do, but men especially do. Suddenly all this mysterious "emotional crap" makes sense and I can see it, understand it, deal with it, and to some extent do something about it (at least on my end of things). 

Men like things that they can take action on...its in our make up I guess. If dealing with the "emotional crap" can be turned into something logical and that logical action can be taken to deal with it, then men are more likely to respond positively to it. I think this is something women should try to understand about men. Make it logical and practical, and they can deal with it...this is an awesome skill that I previously did not know existed...this is the skill of a Counsellor (a good one anyway).

I think it is fair to say I am a lot further down the track of trying to understand what is going on and facing my demons than my wife is, so it was very hard for her as she saw disturbing/challenging things for the first time and she has had no time to deal with these things. My wife faced it with much greater honesty and determination than I had ever imagined possible...I am right, she *IS* tough, but there is a positive side to this characteristic if it is properly channelled. I saw her in a whole new light, I see something of why I was attracted to her at the start of our relationship, all those years ago. I could see that she had some real eye opening realisations and it was very hard and painful for her, but she did not deny them or pull away.

Don't think for one moment that I didn't get my fair share of STICK, I did, but as I say, I have had some time to see my demons and recognise them and begin to deal with them.

I am not saying that the road ahead is all clear now and that it will all be OK, that would be a fantasy, but whatever the final outcome is, we are both much better off for having been to Counselling. I beleive we both gained a lot of understanding that has the potential to bring a lot of healing to both of our lives, regardless of whether our marriage survives or not.

We are going back to see the Counsellor again next week. 

To others contemplating going to marriage Counselling, I would say that if you are genuinely seeking answers and help, you should do it. I would also warn you though, if you are completely honest and open with the Counsellor, this isn't going to go the way you expect it to - You may find yourself facing some very uncomfortable truths; the flip side is that you may find that there is a lot of validation and support for what you feel and believe is going on/has gone on (as was the case for me...this time). Both of these are healing things if you are willing to see and acknowledge painful things and you are prepared to try and make changes for the better.

This is my experience anyway...for what it is worth.


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## chnm2000

Introubledeep. I can't say how much my situation is similar to yours. I too have been in an abusive relationship for years. And I held it back most of the times because I didn't want to get into a big argument or fight in front of the kids (i have two young kids, both under 10). And things just kept going worse. I'm at a point where I constantly think about divorice, but everytime when I think about it it broke my heard thinking the kids will get hurt during the divorce. And yes I stayed in this marriage and put up with all the mean, abusive, hateful and hurtful words from my wife because of the kids. I want them to have a family, I don't want them to get hurt. I was just wondering how you dealt with your feeling towards your kid during all these?


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## Introubledeep

chnm2000 said:


> Introubledeep. I can't say how much my situation is similar to yours. I too have been in an abusive relationship for years. And I held it back most of the times because I didn't want to get into a big argument or fight in front of the kids (i have two young kids, both under 10). And things just kept going worse. I'm at a point where I constantly think about divorice, but everytime when I think about it it broke my heard thinking the kids will get hurt during the divorce. And yes I stayed in this marriage and put up with all the mean, abusive, hateful and hurtful words from my wife because of the kids. I want them to have a family, I don't want them to get hurt. I was just wondering how you dealt with your feeling towards your kid during all these?


I love my daughter beyond words, and this was the main reason I did not get divorced years ago. I did not want her to go through the pain I went through when my parents divorced. 

However, when my wife started trying to turn my daughter against me by telling her some outrageous stories about how bad I was (I will deny these outrageous stories to my dying breath! They never happened!), that was a major turning point for me. I guess that was the final straw for me, I knew that something had to change...I just didn't know what to do yet. 

Around the same time I had a near thing with an affair, a friendship that was starting to get to close and emotional, and fortunately I woke up just in time before I had an affair. This experience made me realise just how miserable I really was in my marriage, and I knew I could not go on like this anymore. I ended the friendship with the other woman, but now I could not go back to my life of misery in my abusive marriage, something had to be done. I started to look at many areas of my life, my marriage, my daughter, my future, our future...

I realised that my daughter was going to get badly hurt by me staying and putting up with this abuse and doing nothing about it...it is teaching her how she should treat her husband in the future. For a boy, it would be teaching him that he should expect to be treated badly by his wife in the future. When it was just me being hurt, that was bad, but I (mistakenly) thought that I should just endure it rather than precipitate a divorce. However, when I began to see that this was hurting my daughter, I saw it in a whole new light. My daughter was going to get hurt either way, whether I remained in this abusive situation, or if we got divorced. I believe the lesser of the two evils would be having divorced parents.

I made the firm decision that my marriage was going to change radically, or it was going to end, but one thing was absolutely sure...I was not going to continue on in this terrible abusive situation. There was going to be a drastic change in the relationship, or there was going to be a divorce. It was a very difficult decision to come to, but once I made that decision, everything changed remarkably quickly. 

My marriage has changed dramatically in the last few weeks. When my wife sensed that I had steely resolve on this issue, she quickly assessed her life and made the decision that she did not want to lose me, and she has changed quite remarkably in her attitude and behaviour towards me....remarkably!!! Marriage Counselling has helped us immensely.

Sure we have lots of things to sort through, but we are walking together on the same path, talking together, emotionally connecting, sexually connecting. A whole lot of healing has already taken place. I am not naieve, I know there is still a lot of work to be done to undo the damage from the past, and a lot of work to be done to make sure that things don't go back to how they used to be, but we have come a long way quickly. 

Things only changed when I threw down the gauntlet and said "enough is enough" (and I wasn't pretending!). I was about to leave the marriage, and when my wife understood that, things changed. It could have ended in divorce, and I was quite content for that to happen, but instead it caused a major re-think by my wife and we are now both earnestly trying to make our marriage a happy one.

For me, the worst thing I could have done would have been to have continued on with things the way they were...worst for me, worst for my daughter, and worst for my wife too. 

My wife had to see that there were consequences for her actions, and then she changed; if she hadn't changed we would be getting divorced. Instead of a divorce, we are now healing our marriage, and this is the best thing for all of us...especially my daughter.


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