# Vent with a question: How does one grieve effectively?



## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

This is hard. I wish i could talk to her. I know I shouldn't dwell on it, I try not to. I try distracting myself. What kind of pain is this? How do you heal? How can I grieve in a way that is healthy? In a lot of ways, I'm angry.. I'm lonely... She's dissolving our marriage.. All of the times she told me she loved me, now she says she doesn't. All of our past, it's like it meant nothing to her. She went right back to her old life. Marriage is supposed to be until death do us part. How can she do this to us? She has zero interest in seeing a counselor. She just gave up completely. No effort to save our marriage, our relationship, not even for the sake of our daughter. In some ways I believe she is using our daughter as an excuse to separate from me. We are Christians, yet I don't find any true mercy or forgiveness in her. No real patience or love. I gave her everything I could. We argued a lot, that's true. She cant speak peaceably with me. Calls me names, wont listen to me, assumes she knows what I'm talking about before I'm even done talking about it. Idk, maybe writing this out will help. I'm seeing a therapist. Says she wants to build my self-worth, says that's been taken from me. I told my therapist what my wife said about me. Said I'm manipulative and controlling... Never gives any examples, just says that how I am. She comes from a severely abusive background.. I'm sure that has a lot to do with all of this. My therapist says that she doesn't think I'm manipulative or controlling. I wish i could believe her. My wife is so insistent that that is who i am, i am inclined to believe her. But I look into my actions and my intention isn't to manipulate or control her. Ironically, i have several examples of her controlling me, and I've begun to suspect that she was manipulating me at one time or another. I honestly don't know. Her control was a large part of our arguments. She's justified some of it by saying that she had "good reasons." I personally don't believe there is any good reason to control anyone. You cant truly control someone, you know?

I love my wife. It's why I married her. I committed myself to her. I don't believe she was ready to get married, and then to get pregnant. She's an avoider. Now because of the pregnancy, and perhaps the marriage, she is being forced to address some things. I told her before we got married that if she wanted to go, she'd be free to go, and so far she has been. She left, after all. I dropped her off at her mother's myself. But we have a child, now. The bottom line is that what is truly best for our daughter is that her biological parents work out their differences and learn to love each other and give that love to her. But my wife is not willing. She doesn't love me and wont choose to love me. So what is best for our daughter now? It seems like what is best is that her parents learn to get along and have peace with one another. But she is not willing to do that either. I think she is more willing, but honestly, she's lied to me about so much, there's no way to know when she is being sincere and honest, and when she's just saying things to avoid again.

She's been talking to her ex boyfriend for a small while. That weighs on me. She doesn't know me, and she says she doesn't respect me. She doesn't listen to what i have to say, she takes my words and twists them so that they mean something unfavourable. She doesn't trust me, but I've never lied to her in all of our relationship. In fact, I've told both her and her family the truth even to the point that it reveals my mistakes and failures. 

Anyway, i have to go. Thank you for reading this. Let me know if you can relate, please, and please share your own experiences. May God bless you..


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Man it put you through the ringer, doesn't it?

I can relate. Let me give you an example: my ex often use to say she loved me and used the most
romantic language at times when saying so. But when she turned on me, she couldn't deny having said
she loved but, that it was never 'that way' (ie, romantic love). She claimed she could not be romantic,
but often she was, at least before. 

Its called rewriting history. It hurts. Sure, it hurts because what you thought and knew was
real is being erased. Like it never happened. But it did. 
What you cherished is being called meaningless.

Yeah, I know.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

jorgegene said:


> Man it put you through the ringer, doesn't it?
> 
> I can relate. Let me give you an example: my ex often use to say she loved me and used the most
> romantic language at times when saying so. But when she turned on me, she couldn't deny having said
> ...


Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I get that you love your wife. I think most of us that got married and divorced loved our ex wives at some point. The thing is, you need to love yourself too, man. You want her to love you, you want her to work things out with you, but she seems to have no interest in all of that. You can't force her to feel the way you do, so you have to let it go and do what is best for you and your kid.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Cristian2737 said:


> .....How can I grieve in a way that is healthy? ......I'm angry.. I'm lonely... She's dissolving our marriage..
> 
> ......No effort to save our marriage, our relationship, not even for the sake of our daughter.
> 
> ...


Venting and getting things off your chest is good therapy. It takes courage to do so.

It takes two to make a marriage and two to destroy a marriage. It appears that your wife has checked out of the marriage and has a different point of view as to what is best for your daughter in the long term in respect to a marriage she is unhappy with. 

You sound like you want to make the marriage work and are willing to put the work in to make that happen. Good for you and good for your daughter. You appear to be morning or grieving the death of your marriage. Anger, bargaining and other emotions are all stages in the grieving process. It will take a while to get to acceptance. 

In the book Future Shock, there is a table that identifies stress points associated with death of a loved one, divorce, signing a mortgage, etc. There is a very high likelihood that if you get enough stress points you or your spouse will become quite sick. So, you need to be concerned about your health and how much you let your grieving get to you. You need to be strong and healthy so that you can support your daughter.

You need to figure out if you want to try to save your marriage, understanding that you can't do that all by yourself. At some point your wife will need to want to save the marriage, if it is to be saved. If you wife is absolutely against saving your marriage, then you need to work through your anger and forgive your wife, not let her make you a victim and become emotionally strong. You need to be strong so you can be a positive influence in your daughters life. You need to forgive your wife and try to remain friends with her (or at least civil) so the two of you can co-parent your daughter.

Good luck to you. You really need to figure out what you want to do. If you do realize/decide that your wife is not interested in reconciliation you have options that may help the two of you efficiently work through the grieving process. There are either marriage counselors who can help the two of you sort out your feelings without pushing you to reconcile or there are some divorce attorneys who specialized in mutually agreed upon divorce settlements.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Cristian2737 said:


> This is hard. I wish i could talk to her. I know I shouldn't dwell on it, I try not to. I try distracting myself. What kind of pain is this? How do you heal? How can I grieve in a way that is healthy? In a lot of ways, I'm angry.. I'm lonely... She's dissolving our marriage.. All of the times she told me she loved me, now she says she doesn't. All of our past, it's like it meant nothing to her. She went right back to her old life. Marriage is supposed to be until death do us part. How can she do this to us? She has zero interest in seeing a counselor. She just gave up completely. No effort to save our marriage, our relationship, not even for the sake of our daughter. In some ways I believe she is using our daughter as an excuse to separate from me. We are Christians, yet I don't find any true mercy or forgiveness in her. No real patience or love. I gave her everything I could. We argued a lot, that's true. She cant speak peaceably with me. Calls me names, wont listen to me, assumes she knows what I'm talking about before I'm even done talking about it. Idk, maybe writing this out will help. I'm seeing a therapist. Says she wants to build my self-worth, says that's been taken from me. I told my therapist what my wife said about me. Said I'm manipulative and controlling... Never gives any examples, just says that how I am. She comes from a severely abusive background.. I'm sure that has a lot to do with all of this. My therapist says that she doesn't think I'm manipulative or controlling. I wish i could believe her. My wife is so insistent that that is who i am, i am inclined to believe her. But I look into my actions and my intention isn't to manipulate or control her. Ironically, i have several examples of her controlling me, and I've begun to suspect that she was manipulating me at one time or another. I honestly don't know. Her control was a large part of our arguments. She's justified some of it by saying that she had "good reasons." I personally don't believe there is any good reason to control anyone. You cant truly control someone, you know?
> 
> I love my wife. It's why I married her. I committed myself to her. I don't believe she was ready to get married, and then to get pregnant. She's an avoider. Now because of the pregnancy, and perhaps the marriage, she is being forced to address some things. I told her before we got married that if she wanted to go, she'd be free to go, and so far she has been. She left, after all. I dropped her off at her mother's myself. But we have a child, now. The bottom line is that what is truly best for our daughter is that her biological parents work out their differences and learn to love each other and give that love to her. But my wife is not willing. She doesn't love me and wont choose to love me. So what is best for our daughter now? It seems like what is best is that her parents learn to get along and have peace with one another. But she is not willing to do that either. I think she is more willing, but honestly, she's lied to me about so much, there's no way to know when she is being sincere and honest, and when she's just saying things to avoid again.
> 
> ...


The answer is within you, as to the proper way to grieve and it will be different for everybody.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> I get that you love your wife. I think most of us that got married and divorced loved our ex wives at some point. The thing is, you need to love yourself too, man. You want her to love you, you want her to work things out with you, but she seems to have no interest in all of that. You can't force her to feel the way you do, so you have to let it go and do what is best for you and your kid.


I understand that. Thank you for saying so


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Venting and getting things off your chest is good therapy. It takes courage to do so.
> 
> It takes two to make a marriage and two to destroy a marriage. It appears that your wife has checked out of the marriage and has a different point of view as to what is best for your daughter in the long term in respect to a marriage she is unhappy with.
> 
> ...


Thank you.. Yes, I really am sick, I think, as a result of all this. My appetite is poor if not none existent. I don't know, I cant tell if I'm depressed. I'm sure I am. I feel tired all the time. I should probably go eat now, actually. Have to force myself. I feel pathetic, man.. useless...


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> The answer is within you, as to the proper way to grieve and it will be different for everybody.


I'm sorry, i don't know what the answer within me is, then.. Maybe ill find it..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's better for your kids to see you separately than together if you're fighting that much. It sounds like you've not been able to work it out to where you're not fighting. I can't tell you how miserable that makes the kids and fearful. So it's better to have them around you separately in a peaceful household. But you be sure and get 50/50 custody so you don't miss each other and having that responsibility three and a half days a week and making new memories with them will not give you much time to dwell on the loss. 

You always carry grief when you lose someone you love. What you have to do is learn how to live life despite it and the best way to do that is to get busy and do things that don't constantly remind you. Before you get half custody of the kids you ought to go ahead and take a break and get out and do something that gives you peace that doesn't have any associations with your wife, whether that's travel or fishing or whatever. Getting out and away from your environment reminds you that it is a big big world and not the little microcosm you've been living in and that you have lots of options. 

Hope you feel better soon.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

the best way i have found is to take two glasses and a good bottle of bourbon, go to the gravesite, fill his glass, and yours. then you recall all the great times you two have had as you drink your glass, and pour theirs onto the ground. Kind of one last pub crawl together.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Cristian2737 said:


> I'm sorry, i don't know what the answer within me is, then.. Maybe ill find it..


One of the ways to deal with it is to learn from the experience.

Abused people don't have proper perspectives, because they don't know what it means to be normal. That's one of the jobs of your therapist, teaching you what is normal.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> the best way i have found is to take two glasses and a good bottle of bourbon, go to the gravesite,


Oh, it would be easier if there was literally a grave to visit. 

Cristian, what's the timeline here? When did this start?


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Ulysses S Grant used to go and ball his eyes out under a tree after big battles. The guy in charge of the largest army in the world, weeping unhinged where other people could see him. Nowadays they'd throw him out of the army for that but he was on to something. Just try to do it where nobody can see you.

You also have to stop relying on her for your self worth. It's probably part of what turned her off in the first place and she's not your wife anymore. She's someone that's looking to hurt you.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Cristian2737 said:


> Thank you.. Yes, I really am sick, I think, as a result of all this. My appetite is poor if not none existent. I don't know, I cant tell if I'm depressed. I'm sure I am. I feel tired all the time. I should probably go eat now, actually. Have to force myself. I feel pathetic, man.. useless...


A couple more thoughts. Intense exercise is a natural anti-depressant. It is also great at stress reduction. Regular exercise can help with both sleep and appetite. It sounds like it could help you in multiple ways.

If you feel you don't have time for exercise, and your wife is bent on ending your marriage. Schedule some "fun" time with your daughter and take her with you when you exercise. For, example is she is very, very young, get an infant backpack or chest holder and carry her while you go for a long walk. If she is older, you might be able to take short walks, hikes, or bike rides with her. You could also try taking and exercise class with her like swimming or time for free swimming at a pool. Not only could this be a way to get some exercise into your life, it could help increase your bonding with your daughter.

You also need to start formulating a plan of what you want you future to be, based on the options available to you. Figure out and work at determining if your Wife has any potential for reconciliation. If not, then start to envision what your life will be without her. Make sure and take gradual steps to implement the plan. Starting to prioritize time with your daughter is a good first step.

Good luck.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

gaius said:


> Ulysses S Grant used to go and ball his eyes out under a tree after big battles. The guy in charge of the largest army in the world, weeping unhinged where other people could see him. Nowadays they'd throw him out of the army for that but he was on to something.


are you SURE about that?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

One thing I can tell you is stop equating Christians with good people, it's just terribly unwise. Look at the world, the thought is ridiculous. And I say that as someone who believes and grew up in the church. It pains me to say this but some of the best most Christ like people I know don't believe in God. Not to say there are not good Christians but being good and being a Christian really have nothing to with each other either way. 

Anyway, you can't make someone love you. If she wants to go there is really nothing you can do. Try to figure out a good parenting strategy going forward. Unfortunately a lot of this is just time. It truly is like a death, you need to mourn. 

Loss this is a part of life. It's normal to cry and moan for a time but eventually you have to make the choice to pick yourself up and start forward again. Just because it didn't work out with her doesn't mean it can't with someone else. At some point assess your relationship and what hand you may have had in it's ending and try to grow from it, but also have the courage to have hope again.

Don't be afraid, you will recover from this and have a good life.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> Oh, it would be easier if there was literally a grave to visit.
> 
> Cristian, what's the timeline here? When did this start?


Which part?


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's better for your kids to see you separately than together if you're fighting that much. It sounds like you've not been able to work it out to where you're not fighting. I can't tell you how miserable that makes the kids and fearful. So it's better to have them around you separately in a peaceful household. But you be sure and get 50/50 custody so you don't miss each other and having that responsibility three and a half days a week and making new memories with them will not give you much time to dwell on the loss.
> 
> You always carry grief when you lose someone you love. What you have to do is learn how to live life despite it and the best way to do that is to get busy and do things that don't constantly remind you. Before you get half custody of the kids you ought to go ahead and take a break and get out and do something that gives you peace that doesn't have any associations with your wife, whether that's travel or fishing or whatever. Getting out and away from your environment reminds you that it is a big big world and not the little microcosm you've been living in and that you have lots of options.
> 
> Hope you feel better soon.


Thank you for sharing that, I really appreciate it.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> A couple more thoughts. Intense exercise is a natural anti-depressant. It is also great at stress reduction. Regular exercise can help with both sleep and appetite. It sounds like it could help you in multiple ways.
> 
> If you feel you don't have time for exercise, and your wife is bent on ending your marriage. Schedule some "fun" time with your daughter and take her with you when you exercise. For, example is she is very, very young, get an infant backpack or chest holder and carry her while you go for a long walk. If she is older, you might be able to take short walks, hikes, or bike rides with her. You could also try taking and exercise class with her like swimming or time for free swimming at a pool. Not only could this be a way to get some exercise into your life, it could help increase your bonding with your daughter.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying so. I think I should go for a walk, and spend some time with daughter in some of those ways when she is born.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> One of the ways to deal with it is to learn from the experience.
> 
> Abused people don't have proper perspectives, because they don't know what it means to be normal. That's one of the jobs of your therapist, teaching you what is normal.


I have a lot to learn, then


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Cristian2737 said:


> I have a lot to learn, then


You're not alone in that regard. 
Once you learn what is a normal reaction and you learn to react in a deliberately normal way, it becomes better.


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## Cristian2737 (Dec 4, 2021)

sokillme said:


> One thing I can tell you is stop equating Christians with good people, it's just terribly unwise. Look at the world, the thought is ridiculous. And I say that as someone who believes and grew up in the church. It pains me to say this but some of the best most Christ like people I know don't believe in God. Not to say there are not good Christians but being good and being a Christian really have nothing to with each other either way.
> 
> Anyway, you can't make someone love you. If she wants to go there is really nothing you can do. Try to figure out a good parenting strategy going forward. Unfortunately a lot of this is just time. It truly is like a death, you need to mourn.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your encouraging words. Sometimes, I think I just need to hear that I'll survive..


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Accept reality as it is, and focus only on what is within your span of control. Spend some time exploring stoicism. Lots of good reading/videos online. Check out Ryan Holiday.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Cristian2737 said:


> Thank you for your encouraging words. Sometimes, I think I just need to hear that I'll survive..


I remember the feeling dude, I remember.

If you play your cards right you can do more then just survive. I get it you don't see it, I didn't at first, but again grieve for a while for now, but eventually you got to go after the life you want again. Still obtainable, just not with this women.


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## CurlsAtx (12 mo ago)

Wait; your kid isn’t born yet? Are you sure it’s yours?

there are totally ways to show the child that they’re supported either way but it’s sounding like there might be some things you don’t know yet?


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## Dad84 (Dec 21, 2020)

I can relate deeply. My wife also came from a traumatic background and we have a daughter. I have a thread here If you want to take a look. I'll be honest with you. You do need to work on self worth. You talk about her and only her on and on. I still do that too. Go to therapy asap It Will help you tremendously If you give It time but what you need to do now is this:
1. Cut ties completely and only get in touch to talk about your daughter. Set her routine so you don't need to talk more frequently. 
2. See a therapist now
3. If she comes back saying she is Sorry be strong and DO NOT TAKE HER BACK. I know you think your case is different but it's not. If she ever comes back is because she knows you're there whenever she feels like It not because she loves you and want to be with you. 
4. Read "no more mr. Nice Guy". I think It applies to you. It is a difficult read but Will give you some perspective. Be careful not to be too heavy on you. Also, "missing piece" is a good book too.
5. Keep looking for activities that Will distract you. Going to the gym is amazing. You get sore initially but Will get used to It. You Will see your body changing giving your more confidence.

All i can remember now and here is the final and harder part to tell. Women like to feel secure they Just don't jump out of a marriage into the unknown so It is Very Very likely that she was cheating on you with her ex and when things looked more certain with him she decided to leave you.


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