# Resentment - the heart of the matter (update)



## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Just thought I would give an update on my situation. I do have H talking about it now, though I don't like the outcome. I have had TWO "enlightenments" with this recent discussion and wanting opinions on BOTH.Up until now, I really didn't get reasons from him, just knew he had no interest because he never would rarely initiate anything with me over the last few years. Now I have an actual reason straight from him and his words.

Enlightenment 1:

According to him, all of the recent 1-3 years LD issues stem from many years where he claims I did not initiate and he felt it was 'unfair'. That it was all "on him" And that when I would ask him when he was going to initiate, or tried to hint around that I was waiting for him to do something, he took this as nagging. This was probably over a period of 5-6 years. I have always been the HD and him the LD and years 1-18 I was probably the initiator 70/30 or 60/40. At some point with all of his anger issues and verbal assaults (which he still blames on each of us - me and the kids) getting really bad, I backed off on being the initiator (years 18-23) because honestly, the anger really cut me, my self-esteem, and honestly made me SCARED. Also, I still wanted to feel like HE was interested and instead of me doing more, I would try to engage him and get him to start something. He says I did all of that, and I did - except I didn't see it as 'nagging' - I was never mean about it,, just would drop a lot of hints and try to get him interested, bought spicy things I thought might help, booked trips for the two of us, etc. NOTHING got him going first, so occasionally when the anger issues weren't weighing me down, I would engage first - but not often. And he dwindled down to never engaging because evidently, he was 'worn down' by me hinting and trying to get him to do something. I don't mind being an initiator some of the time, but ME, my personality, who I am NEEDS someone that WANTS to be with me and not because I am constantly asking. He says to that I am 'childish".

AM I TRULY AT FAULT, knowing all of this?? First time he has actually TOLD me what is going on in his mind. And what could/should I have done differently? I really need answers as to whether I truly led to the current state of or relationship before I can make a good decision.


Enlightenment 2:

He says he is not interested in a sexual relationship now or anytime in the future. He says perhaps one day that could change, could be 1 month, 12 months, 10 years (we will be 60 then!), or never. Says he cannot predict if he ever will or not. It's possible, but he has no clue. That my years of 'nagging' about him initiating have worn him down. Says he would rather focus on all of the other great parts of our relationship that work and quit beating a dead horse that honestly we have fought off and on about for the entire 26 years we have been married (Just has been worse over the last 10 or so). He says that because every other part of our relationship is good, he thinks it is worth saving and doesn't want me to leave.

What does anyone say to THAT? We DO have a lot of great areas in our lives together and after 26 years, it IS hard to walk away, but if all other areas are good except that one, and it is NOT due to a physical problem or outside relationship, then does he have a point?


BTW, I hope the next post I make on here is a FIRM DECISION of what I have decided about this long-standing issue and our relationship.:|


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Forgot to say..................the anger issues are the other part of what isn't working. Everything else IS - intellectual equals, never argue about finances, kids, extended family, are both somewhat introverted, have long history together filled with memories. Everything except those two areas - anger/verbal assaults and intimacy are GREAT. He says good luck finding a new relationship with someone who I am compatible with in 100% all ways - says I am giving up something 80% good at the expense of the 20% not-good and I am likely to wind up in similar situation with someone new (maybe it is a different 80/20, but still won't ever be 100% - no relationship is).


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

First of all THOSE ARE PRETTY BIG ISSUES. That's like saying the boat is beautiful except for that little issue that it has a giant hole in the bottom. Your right no marriage is perfect but I tend to look at it this way, you marry for intimacy, not for things. So staying because you have a lot of nice things seems wrong. You can have nice things without being married. You can't have healthy intimacy if you stay married to someone that doesn't provide it. 

There was a pretty big problem in your marriage (sex) and maybe you didn't handle it as best you could, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a pretty big problem in your marriage. Also lets say it's true and you did cross the line with asking for sex (I can't say as I wasn't there and your perception may be different then his) that doesn't mean he is justified in ignoring the problem now, at least if he wants to stay married. 

It's hard to say how you should have handled it as I don't have all the facts. What was the frequency? Lets say you had come on here before all the fall out and years of issues and I were to answer the same way I answer men when they come on here and ask for help with this problem, then I would say. 

First what kind of shape are you in? Do you try to seduce your husband. Have you tried to figure out what turns him on? Is he over worked, can you help with that? Are there other issues and resentment stopping him from wanting to have sex with you (in this case sounds like the answer would be yes). If you worked on all that then my next answer would be, can you come to a happy medium? If not then I would have suggested you really figure out if you want to stay in the marriage. 

As we stand now this has gone on for a long time. How do you feel about it now? Do you want to try to fix it? Does he? If he doesn't then I would give you the same advice are you sure you want to stay in the marriage. If you are unsure maybe telling him this is a deal breaker will change his mind. A sexless marriage is not a marriage, it certainly isn't a good marriage that is for sure. 

As far as his anger, have you told him in the past how much YOU resent this? Where are you now with this? It's not right for him to take his anger out on you, but sadly I think this is common in most marriages, and both sexes do it. Both of these things are the kind of thing that marriage counseling can help you with, but that is only going to work if both parties are invested in working on it. Sometimes one party isn't until they know they are going to lose the other. Sometimes the marriage just done. 

This is your life though, at the end of the day you have to weigh the benefits against what you are accepting.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Just a comment, because I don't have any overall suggestions: In many HD/LD situations the LD person will come up with endless "reasons" that they are LD. Sometimes these are valid, but sometimes they are simply trying to explain (maybe to themselves) why they don't want sex. 

My guess is that he just doesn't want sex. He may not know / understand himself why that is, so he tries to come up with some sort of explanation.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

uhtred said:


> Just a comment, because I don't have any overall suggestions: In many HD/LD situations the LD person will come up with endless "reasons" that they are LD. Sometimes these are valid, but sometimes they are simply trying to explain (maybe to themselves) why they don't want sex.
> 
> My guess is that he just doesn't want sex. He may not know / understand himself why that is, so he tries to come up with some sort of explanation.


He says that he has always been the type to be a little less forward in that area and that he has counted on me for it. He did make an effort early on for several years and in recent years would SOME, but if it is was adequate, then I wouldn't have been in a position of trying to encourage him (i.e., what he calls nagging) that I was ready for more - it just never felt right to me when I was having to 'convince' him. I think it really did a number on my self-esteem and it has somewhat had a negative cumulative effect. Interesting that during a 2 year period he was on T-therapy, he was GREAT. Though he claims it was due to weighing less (him - he is 100 pounds overweight now) and a less stressful job. I disagree and think the T made a world of difference. At any rate, that's MY thoughts on why he is that way. Though he says the resentment issue is what has made him shut it down completely as of the last year.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thank you, Sokillme - just to be clear, it isn't material things that he/we are counting for the 'what's good' with the relationship, it's all of those qualities, attributes, and things we agree on in life. BUt IMO, the whole lack of intimacy issue is NOT the area where you don't want to have it be good. He disagrees.

He does NOT want to fix the sexual issues. Even when told it is a deal breaker. He had already written up documents with our expenses and assets. He says if I can deal without that part of our relationship, he wants to stay together happily (him) married. It's up to me to "get past" losing that part of our relationship, but he prefers we stay together, just not have that kind of relationship.

I started the discussion on his anger MANY times and how it caused me to have multiple mental breakdowns, and I did not get a kind reply (thinking like most men, I assume, he tells me to 'buck up and grow up' that he has tons of things that hurt his feelings and I should be able to move on like an adult). That is another whole topic and one that I will get beat up on here about, but I DO know it is wrong what he has done in that area and that I am choosing to put up with it until the point I decide not to anymore.

Was hoping to just figure out the sexual part of it first, though I'm sure the two interconnect (after the really bad anger episodes I do tend to pull away emotionally).


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

So i was in a sexless marriage for a number of years. The lack of intimacy and connection was devastating to my self-worth, happiness, etc. I bought in to the fact that it was my fault he did not desire me--now know this is BS. This was his way of controlling me as he knew I enjoyed sex with him before we married. I could not fathom my husband not wanting sex--as I was fit, attractive, willing.

After divorce, I put together the pieces of his years of porn use and strip clubs, NPD, passive-aggressiveness. Even today, I occasionally get tears in my eyes--but I know I could have done little else. There are many ways life is not fair--you must decide what is important to you. 

BTW: His two other marriages lasted a matter of months, so probably I was the foolish one.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Thank you, Sokillme - just to be clear, it isn't material things that he/we are counting for the 'what's good' with the relationship, it's all of those qualities, attributes, and things we agree on in life. BUt IMO, the whole lack of intimacy issue is NOT the area where you don't want to have it be good. He disagrees.
> 
> He does NOT want to fix the sexual issues. Even when told it is a deal breaker. He had already written up documents with our expenses and assets. He says if I can deal without that part of our relationship, he wants to stay together happily (him) married. It's up to me to "get past" losing that part of our relationship, but he prefers we stay together, just not have that kind of relationship.
> 
> ...


Again sounds your marriage is not as good as you are saying. He causes you to have "mental breakdowns"? That's just abuse. 

Taking that out of the equation (which you should but just for the sake of argument). The same holds true for all material things as friendship. What you have is a good friendship (though given what I just wrote, really?). You can have that without marriage. No one gets married for a good friendship. Now some people end up there and that is enough, doesn't sound like that is the case you at least. Him, maybe.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You really have a low opinion of men by the way. But as is often the case it shows why you would accept this, you have no frame of reference to know it could be better. I have been angry with my wife but I never made her have a mental breakdown. Describe what him being angry with you means when you say that. Yelling and screaming is not anger, it's a reaction to anger. I have been angry with my wife, I can could count on one hand anytime where I really yelled at her. We have had heated discussions but that is just what they are. 

Another question, you have this great marriage but he is preparing to separate? Maybe you feel like you have a great marriage but it sounds like he can take it or leave it. 

He has given you a clear answer, sex isn't going to change and if it's a deal breaker for you so be it. There is really only one question, is it a deal breaker for you? 

Again you sound like one of these people who doesn't know enough to know you are in a bad way. That is not a criticism of you just an observation. Lots of times once they get into a new relationship they are shocked how much they settled. I suspect this is your only one true long term relationship and you got together very young right?

The bottom line is it doesn't sound like he wants to change, so you have to decide if you can live with it. If you are saying yes then you need to let it go you will have a better life. No use in agonizing over things that won't change. I guess the only other answer is to open up your marriage. But that depends on of you think that is morally wrong (I do) and if you really think that will solve the problem (I don't). But maybe he won't even care about that.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You've known for some time now that he's willing to end the marriage over this (or maybe he just called your bluff when you brought it up before). He's made it clear more than once that he's not interested in changing. Believe him. 

You cannot make your husband be interested in intimacy with you (and don't believe his story that "someday" he might be; he won't). You still have the same choice that you did last year when you posted about this: stay with him as the situation is currently or leave and try to find someone else you would be happier with. That's a risk, as divorce always is, and he's betting you don't feel strongly enough about it to leave. 

Some people do divorce over intimacy. Many don't. It's up to you.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

My wife's nagging makes me feel inferior. Fortunately, she doesn't nag me about sex. That would be really, really ego-damaging.

Your husband is right. There's no relationship that's " 100% ". All of them are a trade-off.

I didn't marry my first GF. She was willing to commit crimes. And, she was LD. That was a deal-breaker. LD might not have been if she were a conscientious person.

But, you are the only one who can make these decisions.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> He does NOT want to fix the sexual issues. Even when told it is a deal breaker. He had already written up documents with our expenses and assets. He says if I can deal without that part of our relationship, he wants to stay together happily (him) married. *It's up to me to "get past" losing that part of our relationship*, but he prefers we stay together, just not have that kind of relationship.
> 
> ... (thinking like most men, I assume, he tells me to 'buck up and grow up' that he has tons of things that hurt his feelings and *I should be able to move on *like an adult). That is another whole topic and one that I will get beat up on here about, but I DO know it is wrong what he has done in that area and that I am choosing to put up with it until the point I decide not to anymore.
> 
> Was hoping to just figure out the sexual part of it first, though I'm sure the two interconnect (after the really bad anger episodes I do tend to pull away emotionally).


Your husband has been very clear where he stands on the "sexual part" of your marriage. You keep beating a dead horse. Now you want to "figure out" the sexual part. This is just more foot-dragging on your part.

He doesn't want sex with you. He doesn't acknowledge your POV, which he clearly indicated when he told you to get over it and get past your hurt feelings.

The ball is solely in your court. You can keep complaining, doubting your own feelings, taking a straw poll of internet strangers to check out whether or not you should feel as you do, trying to figure out his motivation/your motivation, etc. Or you can live with/accept what you have. He's been clear. He's not going to change. He's minimizing your feelings. 

That about covers it, IMO.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

So you have told your H that lack of sex is a deal breaker. He had written up documents to divide the assets. And you are wondering what you should do? It does sound like you are wondering, it sounds as though you are scared of loosing the other things in your life (material things you can replace and anything else would probably get better if you are happier). So I say it is up to you to **** or get off the pot. Make a decision and live with it, whatever it is. The "problem" is now in your mind, not your husband.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

One thing that needs to be said. Just because you feel like this is the best you can do doesn't make it true. You may find that your life is a thousand times better, lots of people do. But it IS a risk. I learned a long time ago though, nothing great comes without great risk.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You have been living on hope for a very long time. The advice you got last year, and probably even before that, is the same as you're getting this year. You are reluctant to let go of what seems to you to otherwise be a not-bad marriage (his anger aside from that) to take a leap into the unknown where you may or may not find what you're looking for in a new person. And you may fear that once you're gone he'll be motivated to lose that extra 100 pounds and go back on T therapy and find someone new. But you need to focus on the fact that he's not willing to do that for you. So you can continue to live like roommates or you can divorce and try to find someone else. Many people decide the marriage overall is more important and stay but some do leave over lack of intimacy. Only you can decide but obviously your continued indecision about this is actually a decision. The years slide by quickly.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I tried to post and it erased - hope this doesn't appear twice!

The reason why he created all of those documents is to proactively address what our finances and assets would be like if i followed through what what I told him was a deal breaker. He WANTS us to stay together - just as "friends" and no sexual relationship. 

What I really want to know and am asking is based on what I shared, IS IT ME that created his issues with that part of our relationship. If it is, then I feel like I should stay and try to be a better person. If it isn't, then I can go without guilt, which is what I would feel if I left now when there ARE many other good parts to this relationship - he has told me I am selfish for wanting to 'give up 9 good parts for 1 not-so-good' (which really there are 2 not-so-good if you count the anger and verbal assault issues.

Sokill me, YES, RISK - I am afraid of risk in so many areas of life. What if I go and find out it was a huge mistake???


TJW, this is what I am afraid of - if I am the one that created an aversion to me by continually encouraging and trying to sway him into action over several years. I never saw it as nagging, but he did. And I have to 'nag', 'encourage', 'sway' someone into having a physical relationship, that just seems really WRONG. But please tell me more what you meant by your comments about it being ego-damaging. Could that be what I have done to him?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You say that he gets angry and verbally attacks you. Can you describe what sort of things he does and says? Are the children afraid of his anger and verbal attacks? Are you?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Diana, usually if it is against me it is related to the topic of intimacy and how I am lonely and would he please spend some time with me in that way. We go round and round with it and it usually ends up with him telling me to "GTFO if you don' t like it" and he has also said things like he could care less about my f'ing feelings, grow up, etc. While the words are bad, it's the rage and anger that really make me scared. Not that he will physically do anything, but the sheer look of anger in his face is one that I will never forget. With the kids, the oldest teenager said he told her to get the h' out and never come back and threw something at the wall - this was over an issue he wasn't happy about (and neither was I, but I didn't fly into a rage). Got a text from the child after she left the house and told me she was so scared she ran out in 20 degree weather without shoes because she was 'literally terrified." Those kind of incidents happen a few times a y ear, though with me and him, it has been at least every other month. It's clear he doesn't want to talk about THAT topic anymore so I wonder if I am just "asking for it" and get what I get. I WANT to make it work, but telling him I'm lonely and asking for attention puts him into a rage the more this goes on. I will NOT make the mistake of bringing it up again. Makes me sad that ANY topic is off limits - isn't marriage supposed to mean being able to talk about ANYTHING?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I told him I wanted to talk to him about how his behavior impacts me - and was going to tell him for four days I literally could not function - stare at a computer screen and takes me an hour to do a ten minute task. Can't eat. Can't sleep. Just complete mental chaos in my brain trying to 'come down' from his tirades. Don't why he impacts me that way but he does. Which is also something that scares me - will my mind and ability to cope continue to just get worse if it goes on??


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> The reason why he created all of those documents is to proactively address what our finances and assets would be like if i followed through what what I told him was a deal breaker. He WANTS us to stay together - just as "friends" and no sexual relationship.
> 
> What I really want to know and am asking is based on what I shared, IS IT ME that created his issues with that part of our relationship.


Even based on what you posted, nobody knows the answer to your question. Your husband knows. He told you that you nagged him. He basically told you that you were responsible for him no longer wanting to have sex with you. The thing is, NOBODY can control what another person decides to do. Granted, you can buy into the crap that you are solely responsible for him not wanting sex any longer. In his mind, it may very well be what he believes. The thing is, like it or not, he no longer finds you sexually attractive. He likes you and he wants to maintain the status quo as friends.



LilMissSunshine said:


> If it is, then I feel like I should stay and try to be a better person. If it isn't, then I can go without guilt, which is what I would feel if I left now when there ARE many other good parts to this relationship - he has told me I am selfish for wanting to 'give up 9 good parts for 1 not-so-good' (which really there are 2 not-so-good if you count the anger and verbal assault issues.


I'm sure you've heard the old quote, "To thine own self be true." You are out trying to get complete strangers to tell you how to make a life-changing decision. So let me put it to you this way: Only YOU can ultimately decide whether or not you want to stay with your husband. The thing is, you are failing to navigate your own life with your own inner compass. So what difference does your husband's opinion of you make? He's told you he thinks you are a nag. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. How the hell would any of us out here in cyberspace know???

And leaving without guilt? Nah. I don't even see you leaving anyway, based on the fact that you have no confidence in yourself. However, if you ever decide to trust yourself and do what YOU want to do - and to hell with what everyone else thinks - you will probably feel guilt. Sadly, based on all you have posted, I see you as spending years torturing yourself over any decision you make.

My perspective/opinions may come across as harsh, for which I apologize. To me, it sounds like you are choosing to remain mired in indecision, self-doubt, and worry. Sure as hell no way to live one's life, but it's yours to life. YOUR life. YOUR choice. Seriously.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Saying you want sex and being willing to follow through if he is interested is "nagging"? Anytime I want sex my husband is happy to oblige, even if he is tired. The last time we made love, afterwards he said, "Thank you" to which I said, "My pleasure!."

1. Your husband has sexually rejected you for over 20 years, 
2. he gaslights to try to convince you it is somehow your fault even though he knows that when he was on T therapy he wanted sex more often, 
3. he also has anger issues and verbally attacks you, 
4. he is 100 lbs overweight (and you don't insult him for looking unsexy or disgusting),
5. and to top it all off, he reduced your marriage to a financial spreadsheet to show you why you would be better off not divorcing him.

I see five big reasons to start up paperwork to free myself from an abusive, sexually lazy, fat manipulator.

I am sorry for being so blunt, but your husband doesn't sound like a catch at all. You will be losing 300+ lbs of dead weight when you are rid of him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I told him I wanted to talk to him about how his behavior impacts me - and was going to tell him for four days I literally could not function - stare at a computer screen and takes me an hour to do a ten minute task. Can't eat. Can't sleep. Just complete mental chaos in my brain trying to 'come down' from his tirades. Don't why he impacts me that way but he does. Which is also something that scares me - will my mind and ability to cope continue to just get worse if it goes on??


My first husband had anger issues and was also very inconsistent with his moods so the children and I had to walk on eggshells. It was horrible. 
However he didn't speak to me the way yours does and he certainly had never thrown anything. To be honest its clearly affecting your mental health now, and must be badly affecting the children having to live in that awful atmosphere, not knowing when the blow is going to happen. 
If you stay, you may need to be firm and set boundaries with him, and say that the next time he blows up you are leaving with the children.If he says ok, just go, then call his bluff and go. He doesn't think you will of course. If there are no consequences then he has no need to stop does he. He needs to go and get some anger management, and who knows if or when it may get physical? 

To be honest I think that your health will suffer more and more as time passes, and maybe you do need to separate for a time to see if he will get help. I just cant see how he can love you treating you the way he does. Its just wrong.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I told him I wanted to talk to him about how his behavior impacts me - and was going to tell him for four days I literally could not function - stare at a computer screen and takes me an hour to do a ten minute task. Can't eat. Can't sleep. Just complete mental chaos in my brain trying to 'come down' from his tirades. Don't why he impacts me that way but he does. Which is also something that scares me - will my mind and ability to cope continue to just get worse if it goes on??


This is classic codependency. You are suffering from it. Take it from me, I was the poster child for codependency for many years.

Your husband isn't interested in how your behavior impacts him. He has already told you to basically strap on a pair and suck it up. ^^THIS^^ is entirely on you.

Sorry.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Who knows whether you're to blame or not. He thinks you are so it doesn't really matter if we think you are or if we don't. Apparently he feels you nagged him and now he resents you. Or that's his story anyway and it gives him an excuse to avoid intimacy and continue with that forever. Who knows if he's even capable at this point (and he doesn't appear interested in becoming capable if he isn't). 

What about you? Can you convince yourself you'll be happy with that life if you stay and take the blame and "try to be a better person"?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Diana, usually if it is against me it is related to the topic of intimacy and how I am lonely and would he please spend some time with me in that way. We go round and round with it and it usually ends up with him telling me to "GTFO if you don' t like it" and he has also said things like he could care less about my f'ing feelings, grow up, etc. While the words are bad, it's the rage and anger that really make me scared. Not that he will physically do anything, but the sheer look of anger in his face is one that I will never forget. With the kids, the oldest teenager said he told her to get the h' out and never come back and threw something at the wall - this was over an issue he wasn't happy about (and neither was I, but I didn't fly into a rage). Got a text from the child after she left the house and told me she was so scared she ran out in 20 degree weather without shoes because she was 'literally terrified." Those kind of incidents happen a few times a y ear, though with me and him, it has been at least every other month. It's clear he doesn't want to talk about THAT topic anymore so I wonder if I am just "asking for it" and get what I get. I WANT to make it work, but telling him I'm lonely and asking for attention puts him into a rage the more this goes on. I will NOT make the mistake of bringing it up again. Makes me sad that ANY topic is off limits - isn't marriage supposed to mean being able to talk about ANYTHING?


After reading that, even if he wanted to have sex with you everyday, I would wonder why you stay with him. He is abusive; not only to you, but to your children as well. You would have not only done yourself, but them a favor by leaving him years ago. Your daughter has a very high chance of marrying an abusive man because that is what she has grown up with. So sad.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And what about his anger? Can you continue to live with that the rest of your life? That's not going away.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@LilMissSunshine, I believe you are in an abusive marriage and you are suffering from battered women's syndrome, or a form of PTSD. Although he hasn't laid a hand on you, he throws things, causes you to be afraid, tears you down with he verbal attacks and after that you can't function properly for days.

Not having sex is the least of your worries, if you can't ever bring up anything that is unpleasant in order to seek a compromise.

Can you go to a psychologist or a battered woman's shelter and get some help?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Why are you believing his words--except when he is angry-- instead of his actions? Even the angry words tell a story. IMHO: you do not have a marriage. You must have a core value that includes that if you try hard enough, you will succeed eventually. That is NOT true. To me a failure to leave this situation indicates issues you need IC for--just you, not him.

If he were the answer to all YOUR prayers, he has no reciprocal feelings. Normal has become skewed, lost, obfuscated beyond reality.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Diana, usually if it is against me it is related to the topic of intimacy and how I am lonely and would he please spend some time with me in that way. We go round and round with it and it usually ends up with him telling me to "GTFO if you don' t like it" and he has also said things like he could care less about my f'ing feelings, grow up, etc. While the words are bad, it's the rage and anger that really make me scared. Not that he will physically do anything, but the sheer look of anger in his face is one that I will never forget. With the kids, the oldest teenager said he told her to get the h' out and never come back and threw something at the wall - this was over an issue he wasn't happy about (and neither was I, but I didn't fly into a rage). Got a text from the child after she left the house and told me she was so scared she ran out in 20 degree weather without shoes because she was 'literally terrified." Those kind of incidents happen a few times a y ear, though with me and him, it has been at least every other month. It's clear he doesn't want to talk about THAT topic anymore so I wonder if I am just "asking for it" and get what I get. I WANT to make it work, but telling him I'm lonely and asking for attention puts him into a rage the more this goes on. I will NOT make the mistake of bringing it up again. Makes me sad that ANY topic is off limits - isn't marriage supposed to mean being able to talk about ANYTHING?


 I understand your need to try to figure out where you or he went wrong in the relationship. It is part of your decision making process. Like I had told you before, my best friend is a lot like you. Some people have longer fuses than others. Just because I would not take this long to pull the plug on this type of scenario in my own life, does not mean it is wrong. 

However, the above is enough to make you put your foot down and indeed do what he says and get the **** out. Your husband is horribly abusive to you and your kids. Please. Stop this torture and get out. You can do self reflection once you are out. There is no changing this man. He is miserable and there is absolutely nothing on this Earth that you could do or say to make him love you. Pull the plug. Now.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I need to add something else. You DO realize, don't you,that you are in an abusive relationship? It's hard, I've been there. 12 long tortured years. Just because your husband doesn't physically beat you doesn't mean he's not an abuser. I think this is the first time you've disclosed he throws things? 

It's time to leave, hon. Lean on your friends for support, call that lawyer again. Also check with your local YWCA and your local police for agencies,they might have contacts.

You mentioned having reservations about financial issues living alone and being older. You know what? I'd rather live in a studio apartment working at chick fil a and beating cancer and rise like a Phoenix like @Prodigal than spend one more day in that hell house. 

Time to quit navel gazing. You must be proactive now.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'.................I see my post on the screen and realize how it and all of the previous ones are just ridiculous. If my daughter posted these things, I would be adamantly talking to her DAILY trying to get her out of a relationship like that. Or another relative. Or friend. So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. I know it's not 'normal' but it's sounding like it may be more than just 'not normal'................he always says it is US that makes him that way, which is probably why I keep thinking I can fix it if I change my behavior. And I'm TRYING to reverse my thinking now and realize that maybe I did NOT cause his behavior. 

Also, I am a very fit and energetic woman who friends say are like a 'ray of sunshine' (thus my name). I could pass for 10 years younger, and am reasonably attractive. And here I am practically begging a man to be intimate with me. INSANE. This, on top of the anger stuff.

I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident. Am scared to death just thinking about going. I think some of you are right.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I want to be able to log on here one day and say "I did it. I took care of me. I'm free." Short of a miracle with him changing on BOTH issues, I soooo want to be able to come on here and tell everyone here that I finally did it. I don't "know" anyone on here, but I feel like so many would be happy for me - and probably others saying hallelujah because I won't be on here posting about all of the drama anymore  I seriously would love to be able to come on here one day and say my issues are no more...............


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

What is your biggest fear related to divorce? Second biggest?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'.................I see my post on the screen and realize how it and all of the previous ones are just ridiculous. If my daughter posted these things, I would be adamantly talking to her DAILY trying to get her out of a relationship like that. Or another relative. Or friend. So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. I know it's not 'normal' but it's sounding like it may be more than just 'not normal'................he always says it is US that makes him that way, which is probably why I keep thinking I can fix it if I change my behavior. And I'm TRYING to reverse my thinking now and realize that maybe I did NOT cause his behavior.
> 
> Also, I am a very fit and energetic woman who friends say are like a 'ray of sunshine' (thus my name). I could pass for 10 years younger, and am reasonably attractive. And here I am practically begging a man to be intimate with me. INSANE. This, on top of the anger stuff.
> 
> I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident. Am scared to death just thinking about going. I think some of you are right.


You've taken baby step #1 by what you wrote.

Just one step at a time. You can do it. Do it for yourself and for your daughter.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Have you ever spoken to a lawyer about what your legal rights are? Knowledge is power. I can promise you that you would leave his/her office feeling more confident. Your husband's spreadsheet about your finances was probably not accurate. He doesn't want you to leave and take 1/2 of everything "he" earned. Even if he was the major breadwinner, you worked hard doing other things that he didn't have to pay for, and which saved lots of $ in the longrun not having to hire them out. 1/2 of everything is rightfully yours...even debt.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'.................I see my post on the screen and realize how it and all of the previous ones are just ridiculous. If my daughter posted these things, I would be adamantly talking to her DAILY trying to get her out of a relationship like that. Or another relative. Or friend. So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. I know it's not 'normal' but it's sounding like it may be more than just 'not normal'................he always says it is US that makes him that way, which is probably why I keep thinking I can fix it if I change my behavior. And I'm TRYING to reverse my thinking now and realize that maybe I did NOT cause his behavior.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident. Am scared to death just thinking about going. I think some of you are right.


I think that's a great plan. You can do it. There is no judgement here. We are here to support you. I totally understand and want you to have a life free from rage and anger and such vitriolic disrespect. Life is beautiful on the other side!


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Thank you, Sokillme - just to be clear, it isn't material things that he/we are counting for the 'what's good' with the relationship, it's all of those qualities, attributes, and things we agree on in life. BUt IMO, the whole lack of intimacy issue is NOT the area where you don't want to have it be good. He disagrees.
> 
> He does NOT want to fix the sexual issues. Even when told it is a deal breaker. He had already written up documents with our expenses and assets. He says if I can deal without that part of our relationship, he wants to stay together happily (him) married. It's up to me to "get past" losing that part of our relationship, but he prefers we stay together, just not have that kind of relationship.
> 
> ...



This seems no different than the many posts we see from men whose wives have unilaterally decided to stop having sex/complain about being "pestered" for sex. 

And the advice is the same:

Sexual intimacy is an integral part of a marriage. That's why you married the opposite sex instead of a same-sex partner. If he is unilaterally cutting out the lynchpin of a marriage, that means he is no longer dedicated to the marriage. It's no longer something bigger than individual desires. So, HE has declared the marriage over. You would be justified in moving on.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'.................I see my post on the screen and realize how it and all of the previous ones are just ridiculous. If my daughter posted these things, I would be adamantly talking to her DAILY trying to get her out of a relationship like that. Or another relative. Or friend. So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. I know it's not 'normal' but it's sounding like it may be more than just 'not normal'................he always says it is US that makes him that way, which is probably why I keep thinking I can fix it if I change my behavior. And I'm TRYING to reverse my thinking now and realize that maybe I did NOT cause his behavior.
> 
> Also, I am a very fit and energetic woman who friends say are like a 'ray of sunshine' (thus my name). I could pass for 10 years younger, and am reasonably attractive. And here I am practically begging a man to be intimate with me. INSANE. This, on top of the anger stuff.
> 
> I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident. Am scared to death just thinking about going. I think some of you are right.


Of course you are scared. Unwanted change is scary. You didn't want it to come to this. 

A lot of people stay in unhappy marriages due to the fear of leaving. Again, I will use the example of advice we would give to men in your position. If there was a man posting here who was refused sex by his wife, and also berated/nagged/belittled by his wife (and there have been such posts), but he was afraid of the effects of the divorce, loss of contact with his kids, financial consequences, etc., what would the advice be? It would still be to leave the abusive marriage because it will never get better. Hell, posters often BERATE men who come here with those kinds of problems and who don't file for divorce. These guys end up getting shamed as spineless rug-sweepers. 

I'm not going to berate you, but rather just to illustrate that this is a common problem. You may indeed need counseling to help yourself gain the confidence to break free. Hell, you've probably been psychologically beaten down by this situation, so a counselor would be a good idea even if divorce was already filed. You need to recover from the ego-shattering effects of your situation. You need to believe in your self-worth again.

If you get to the point where you really believe you are a capable, talented, desirable, person of worth again, I think your feeling of paralysis will start to evaporate.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Don't know your back story but I through a random thought out there.

Is it possible that you may be able to identify some singular event in the past that changed the dynamics of your sexual relationship and was the start of his weight gain ?

Could he be blaming you for the weight gain and doesn't feel the need to lose it just so you can have what you want. As in: Why should I do that work for her....

I could be reading too far into things and be on the wrong trail but thought I may have picked up on something...left unsaid


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Wolfman1968 said:


> That's why you married the opposite sex instead of a same-sex partner.


I wouldn't think gay people see it that way.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'


Okay. I want you to take a minute to sit down, shut up, and listen to me. Everyone else on here, just let me try to do this with no interference/feedback. I'd greatly appreciate that.

To begin with, I want you to read what I quoted from your most recent post. Honey, it doesn't matter a rat's ass WHY you cannot leave. Granted, a counselor can make you understand why you cannot leave. But can you see why that is as worthless as trying to figure out all the other problems in your marriage? Whether you figure out - and gain answers to - every damn thing in the universe,, it will NOT give you the impetus to leave. Let that sink in for a little while, okay?



LilMissSunshine said:


> So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. … I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident.


All the hand holding in the world won't get you to leave your crappy husband. THE HAND HOLDING IS EXACTLY WHAT IS KEEPING YOU IN THIS MARRIAGE. Why? Because, although your husband refuses you sex, he is basically "hand holding" you with everything else - security, both financial and material. 

My dear woman, this is life. After we are grown and no longer live with our parents, we have to face what is life. The reason you, and many other posters are here lamenting their rotten marriages on TAM is because they hold out hope, no matter how ridiculous, that their life can be stress-free, problem-free, and turn out as they wish.

That is not life. No counselor worth his or her salt is going to form another codependent relationship with you and hold your hand. They may get you to figure out why you're codependent as all get-out, but this is solely on you. It's called growing up. It's called facing reality for exactly what it is. Not nice. Not pretty. Not the way you want it.

What doesn't kill us will make us stronger. I'm living testament to that. WE DON'T GET PROBABLY 95% OF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WE POSE IN THIS LIFETIME. Make peace with that, because that is the reality of our world. SERIOUSLY.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

It definitely sounds like you're severely codependent and hopefully, you can get help for that so you can finally move on to a much healthier life.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks, everyone - I don't even know when co-dependent means, but am going to find out. I see flickers of remorse when he is angry and think sometimes he is trying to do better with that. The other issue, he says in time he might feel different and want that kind of relationship again. All of that plays into me being hopeful things will get better and not wanting to give up too soon. And YES, I know it is HOPE and that we are living in real life and sometimes don't get answers. I'm trying my best, I really am. Feel so worn down mentally right now, just trying to get to a point of peace.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think I need to find a counselor who can help me SPECIFICALLY with why I cannot leave. They don't need to help me figure out ANYTHING else, just 'why can't I leave'.................I see my post on the screen and realize how it and all of the previous ones are just ridiculous. If my daughter posted these things, I would be adamantly talking to her DAILY trying to get her out of a relationship like that. Or another relative. Or friend. So WHY can't I do it? I seriously think I need to get someone who will really work with me on JUST THAT. I know it's not 'normal' but it's sounding like it may be more than just 'not normal'................he always says it is US that makes him that way, which is probably why I keep thinking I can fix it if I change my behavior. And I'm TRYING to reverse my thinking now and realize that maybe I did NOT cause his behavior.
> 
> Also, I am a very fit and energetic woman who friends say are like a 'ray of sunshine' (thus my name). I could pass for 10 years younger, and am reasonably attractive. And here I am practically begging a man to be intimate with me. INSANE. This, on top of the anger stuff.
> 
> I seriously need help JUST to figure out why I can't leave and help me take steps to MOVE FORWARD. Almost feel like I need them holding my hand and walking me through it - a least until I can get to a point where I am a little more confident. Am scared to death just thinking about going. I think some of you are right.



Now THIS is your actual moment of enlightenment!!!!! ^^^^^


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

"Hopium" very often keeps people in dysfunctional marriages. Why? Because it's easier to "hope" things will change than to take the steps to "make" things change. 

No one goes into marriage thinking they will have to get a divorce. My marriage was much longer than yours and for decades I fought to stay in it "hoping" things would change. Did they? No. Only after I got out did I find peace. My only regret? I wasted the majority of my life on someone who had no interest in working with me to have a good marriage. 

My husband wanted to stay married but he didn't want to do the work necessary for a real partnership. Yours doesn't either.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I forgot to ask about this..............his statement that he wants to stay together/married, just wants it to be more of a friendship................says he wants to keep us together at all costs and that since the intimacy issue is what drives most of the anger (with me, still doesn't excuse anger issues with the kids), that's why we should just forgo it. Is that just another excuse, or does he REALLY care so much about our relationship that he is putting it out there as a way to save it?

Thank you all for the additional comments. I am going to start printing these off and keeping with me for strength when I need it!

Also, I had found hotline for domestic abuse and am going to call it. I am not sure if they only deal with physical abuse, but if they can offer insight on other, then I think a call might be helpful.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

If he wants you for a live-in friend, y'all don't have to be married. What does marriage mean to each of you--not the same thing. He likely spends hours enjoying the debate with you. What you want causes issues, so let's just omit it and not discuss it any more? Surely, you see the fallacy there. Does he think you are stupid?

If you do not take action, in 10 years you will still be debating. Decide, do you want to live in a relationship like this or not and then take action--or not.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

sunsetmist said:


> If he wants you for a live-in friend, y'all don't have to be married. What does marriage mean to each of you--not the same thing. He likely spends hours enjoying the debate with you. What you want causes issues, so let's just omit it and not discuss it any more? Surely, you see the fallacy there. Does he think you are stupid?
> 
> If you do not take action, in 10 years you will still be debating. Decide, do you want to live in a relationship like this or not and then take action--or not.


YES, I know if I don't take action what it means..................but wonder if his motives really are that he loves me to the degree he claims he does - enough that he is trying to keep us together by eliminating an area that has caused tremendous distress for us for many, many years. Like he is doing this for US??? Part of what has my head spinning - maybe his proposal for 'friendship' has motives that are for a good purpose??? He says he wants all of the 'good' parts and wants to forgo the 'bad part' (i.e., sexual) if it means we stay together without fights. What does this mean????? Pure motive or just another excuse???


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay, ignore the anger issue for a moment (which is huge) and make this only about sex. He wants to stay with you but he doesn't want to have sex with you. He's not willing to work on that in any way. Could you happily do that the rest of your life?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Mr.Married said:


> I wouldn't think gay people see it that way.



Your comment makes no sense. The OP is in a heterosexual relationship.

If the OP was gay, I would have the same advice, except to say "that's why you married a same-sex partner instead of an opposite sex one."
Everyone knows the unhappiness of gay people who have had to marry opposite sex partners due to societal pressures. 

I chose my words carefully. My advice applies to both heterosexual and same-sex relationships. The key point is that sex is an integral part of a relationship, regardless of orientation.

That is the crux of the OP's problem.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He may say he loves you greatly but his actions don't say that. 

What he wants is for you to go along with his version of a happy marriage. It's all about what he wants -- no compromising. That obviously isn't how marriage is supposed to work. 

Plenty of people remain in unhappy marriages. The question is whether you can.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> YES, I know if I don't take action what it means..................but wonder if his motives really are that he loves me to the degree he claims he does - enough that he is trying to keep us together by eliminating an area that has caused tremendous distress for us for many, many years. Like he is doing this for US??? Part of what has my head spinning - maybe his proposal for 'friendship' has motives that are for a good purpose??? He says he wants all of the 'good' parts and wants to forgo the 'bad part' (i.e., sexual) if it means we stay together without fights. What does this mean????? Pure motive or just another excuse???


To me, love incorporates putting the needs of the one loved at least in the same ballpark, not banishing them from the game. This is especially true to me when your expectations closely correlate to the norm.

Because you care for him, you consider, ad infinitum, his wishes, desires, platitudes, rules. If this is who you are, so be it!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Do you do alot of creature comforts for him? Cook and clean, do laundry, grocery shop, pay bills, maintain the house, keep things running?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

he just wants to keep the other services you provide but he has no actual desire for you or wants any sexual intimacy or passion with you. 

He wants a Wife Appliance around to do tasks and errands but he has no love or passion for you. 

He has told you to your face that he doesn't want a sex life with you. 

This is really a simple equation, if you want to have a love and sex life and be with someone that desires you and wants to be intimate with you, it will have to be someone else. 

Your options are -

- suck it up and live with it and become good friends with Brazilian orgy porn and your vibrator. 

- leave him and find someone else. 

- work out an open marriage arrangement where you keep cleaning the house and raising the kids under one roof but get your love'n and sexuality elsewhere.

- get it on the side without his knowledge and consent. 

None of those will address the anger or fat issues but at least it will address the sex issue


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Okay, ignore the anger issue for a moment (which is huge) and make this only about sex. He wants to stay with you but he doesn't want to have sex with you. He's not willing to work on that in any way. Could you happily do that the rest of your life?


https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/editor/separator.gif


NO, I could not live with that. But if I can work on whatever issues led to his resentment over the next year and re-build an emotional connection, then maybe the rest would follow. He did say that there was a CHANCE it could come back. Originally he said 'never' but came back a few days later and said there was always a chance it could come back, though wouldn't commit - which I guess he can't really know if his feelings will or will not change in the future. But he did rule out 'never' with a 'it's possible one day'..............


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> YES, I know if I don't take action what it means..................but wonder if his motives really are that he loves me to the degree he claims he does - enough that he is trying to keep us together by eliminating an area that has caused tremendous distress for us for many, many years. Like he is doing this for US??? Part of what has my head spinning - maybe his proposal for 'friendship' has motives that are for a good purpose??? He says he wants all of the 'good' parts and wants to forgo the 'bad part' (i.e., sexual) if it means we stay together without fights. What does this mean????? Pure motive or just another excuse???


If only life and relationships were that easy! To cut out what we don't like so easily. He's not declaring it for you AND him as a team. He's declaring it for HIM. You two are not a team. He is a very selfish man. He has been crystal clear with you. You need to take it or leave it. You need to stop doing mental gymnastics about it. He has left no stone unturned. There is NO mystery here. You have all the information you need. He wants you to provide the things you do for him but without the intimacy. You're better off getting a roommate who treats you with respect and kindness and decency. He treats you like dog**** on his shoe.

Happy to hear you have reached out to the domestic abuse hotline. I hope they can help you.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

sunsetmist said:


> To me, love incorporates putting the needs of the one loved at least in the same ballpark, not banishing them from the game. This is especially true to me when your expectations closely correlate to the norm.
> 
> Because you care for him, you consider, ad infinitum, his wishes, desires, platitudes, rules. If this is who you are, so be it!


I agree, putting the needs of the other first SHOULD be important. And my expectations are NOT that great in that area - certainly below the norm of what others would expect.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Do you do alot of creature comforts for him? Cook and clean, do laundry, grocery shop, pay bills, maintain the house, keep things running?


I cook, clean, pay bills, keep the household running - we both do our own laundry, kids are old enough to do theirs now, and we both do the grocery shopping - so sort of a combination of both.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/editor/separator.gif
> 
> 
> NO, I could not live with that. But if I can work on whatever issues led to his resentment over the next year and re-build an emotional connection, then maybe the rest would follow. He did say that there was a CHANCE it could come back. Originally he said 'never' but came back a few days later and said there was always a chance it could come back, though wouldn't commit - which I guess he can't really know if his feelings will or will not change in the future. But he did rule out 'never' with a 'it's possible one day'..............


There he goes again, moving the goalposts and dangling that carrot in front of your nose . . . You'd be foolish to believe him. Again.

Has he always been this way, or did this behavior start when he started to pile on the weight?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I cook, clean, pay bills, keep the household running - we both do our own laundry, kids are old enough to do theirs now, and we both do the grocery shopping - so sort of a combination of both.


There it is in black and white. Of course he doesn't want you to leave! You make his life so easy! He doesn't want a lover. He wants a maid. Tell him to hire a damn cleaning service.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> he just wants to keep the other services you provide but he has no actual desire for you or wants any sexual intimacy or passion with you.
> 
> He wants a Wife Appliance around to do tasks and errands but he has no love or passion for you.
> 
> ...


Ouch! A Wife Appliance................but it sounds like that might be true. More words of wisdom for me to reflect on.:|


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> If only life and relationships were that easy! To cut out what we don't like so easily. He's not declaring it for you AND him as a team. He's declaring it for HIM. You two are not a team. He is a very selfish man. He has been crystal clear with you. You need to take it or leave it. You need to stop doing mental gymnastics about it. He has left no stone unturned. There is NO mystery here. You have all the information you need. He wants you to provide the things you do for him but without the intimacy. You're better off getting a roommate who treats you with respect and kindness and decency. He treats you like dog**** on his shoe.
> 
> Happy to hear you have reached out to the domestic abuse hotline. I hope they can help you.



Reading and trying to internalize this..........it's HIM. Declaring it for HIM. YES, probably so. He DOES treat me with kindness, it's just conditional. I know from my posts it probably sounds like he is awful - he isn't. In many ways he is a good man. But I do get your point on it being about HIM - he is the one that can take it or leave it, so by taking it away, the only person really impacted is ME!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> There he goes again, moving the goalposts and dangling that carrot in front of your nose . . . You'd be foolish to believe him. Again.
> 
> Has he always been this way, or did this behavior start when he started to pile on the weight?


No, has not always been that way - started about 7 years ago, yes weight started around then, too. I know there are mental (possible depression) and physical things (low T, weight, and who knows what else) going on. He wont go for any help - mental or physical, so hard to really know when you won't go. MOre words I am letting sink in - yes, I have to be an idiot to believe yet again.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Hon, raging every other month is not a good man. No wife,let alone YOUR CHILDREN, should ever ever have to see any of that crap. I know what you are going through with the rage. It will NOT get better. 

This is not coming from a mean place but from a place of concern and real talk. You must take off those codependency blinders and WAKE UP. Your child fled the house out of fear! In what world is that ok?!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> No, has not always been that way - started about 7 years ago, yes weight started around then, too. I know there are mental (possible depression) and physical things (low T, weight, and who knows what else) going on. He wont go for any help - mental or physical, so hard to really know when you won't go. MOre words I am letting sink in - yes, I have to be an idiot to believe yet again.


I'm not calling you an idiot I would never be mean like that.

My father was a large man. And he was always depressed about it. He didn't act out in anger like your H does but I kind of thought your H's weight might be the reason for his behavior. Unless and until he identifies that as an issue and does something about it, he will be imprisoned with his rage and depression and isolation. You and your children do not have to be imprisoned with him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Ouch! A Wife Appliance................but it sounds like that might be true. More words of wisdom for me to reflect on.:|


What else would you call it? He wants the convenience of someone doing chores and tasks around the house and someone to keep the kids out of his hair but he doesn't have any feelings of desire or intimacy for you and has told you to your face he does not want a sex life with you. 

I suspect the main reason he doesn't want a divorce is then he will have to keep his own place clean and functional, do his own laundry and most importantly will have to deal with the kids on his own 50% of time. 

It sounds like the kids annoy him and he doesn't want to deal with them on his own. 

Perhaps you can offer up some kind of deal you have almost all of the physical custody and he just pays a reasonable amount of child support and he can have them for brief periods when he might want like a bday or family gathering or something. 

Quite frankly, he just doesn't sound like husband or father material let alone lover material. I don't see why you want to be there at all. 

I do think seeking some kind of therapy to determine why you are chasing this windmill and help you pursue your own best interests is a very wise thing.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Hon, raging every other month is not a good man. No wife,let alone YOUR CHILDREN, should ever ever have to see any of that crap. I know what you are going through with the rage. It will NOT get better.
> 
> This is not coming from a mean place but from a place of concern and real talk. You must take off those codependency blinders and WAKE UP. Your child fled the house out of fear! In what world is that ok?!



Nooooo...............it's not o.k. (((((((((((((((((( SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH ME. I know it's not o.k. I should have been in an attorney's office the next day. I am just immobilized. And I know you aren't trying to be mean. Maybe someone being mean will break through whatever brick wall is in there that makes me see what is going on yet unable to do something. It makes NOOOOO sense. I know it's not o.k., I do.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/editor/separator.gif
> 
> 
> NO, I could not live with that. But if I can work on whatever issues led to his resentment over the next year and re-build an emotional connection, then maybe the rest would follow. He did say that there was a CHANCE it could come back. Originally he said 'never' but came back a few days later and said there was always a chance it could come back, though wouldn't commit - which I guess he can't really know if his feelings will or will not change in the future. But he did rule out 'never' with a 'it's possible one day'..............


Dude that is just carrot-dangling to keep you hooked and not packing your bags. It is just a manipulation. 

Do you know how to tell if someone wants to have a love and sex life with you? - they actually have sex with you. ……… weekly or more. 

Do you know how to tell if someone doesn't want a sex life with you? - they don't. 

If he wanted to have sex with you he would be hitting on you and pursuing a sex life and actually dropping his pants and doing it. 

If he wanted to divorce he would have divorced you. 

But as it stands, he does not want to have sex with you but wants to keep you around for the other services you provide like cleaning, running the house while he eats and watches TV/games and keeps the kids out of his hair. You are an unpaid maid and babysitter that gets to stay in the house instead of getting paid. 

His angle here is quite clear and obvious. 

The only real question to this situation is why are you still there?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> I'm not calling you an idiot I would never be mean like that.
> 
> My father was a large man. And he was always depressed about it. He didn't act out in anger like your H does but I kind of thought your H's weight might be the reason for his behavior. Unless and until he identifies that as an issue and does something about it, he will be imprisoned with his rage and depression and isolation. You and your children do not have to be imprisoned with him.


I think he is going out in just a little while which means I can call the hotline. I am sure they are used to dealing with all kinds of situations. I know he is very uncomfortable about his weight and about aging in general (is 54). He has not taken good care of himself over the last ten years and now has a lot of issues to show for it. He will comment fairly often about his ailments and how he hates getting old. Also has said things to the effect of just being ready to coast through life at this stage, not really wanting to do a whole lot, he's 'too old' for all kinds of things according to him (which is why I thought depression).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

..…..and in regards to wanting to address whatever has "caused his resentment", one must first have a legitimate cause of resentment to address. 

Have you cheated on him?

Drained his life savings without his approval?

Made fun of his mouse penis infront of God and country? 

Got rid of his dog while he was at work and refused to tell him where it was?

Wrecked his prized 1968 Torino without his permission to drive it?

Have you done anything anywhere even in the ballpark of any of those things because I don't know what else would cause a man to have enough resentment to not want to have sex with someone.

If you cheated on him with his best friend and then told everyone in your social circles that the BF was a lot better than him and his mouse penis, then yes, you may have some work cut out for him to want to be with you again. 

But if you haven't done any of those things, then it is because he is a an angry, fat, lazy dud that couldn't ---- his way out of a wet paper bag. 

It's on him and not your issue to fix.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Dude that is just carrot-dangling to keep you hooked and not packing your bags. It is just a manipulation.
> 
> Do you know how to tell if someone wants to have a love and sex life with you? - they actually have sex with you. ……… weekly or more.
> 
> ...


The answer to that question is beyond me. As I shared in another reply, IT MAKES NO SENSE. I should have bolted after the last issue with the anger. If I did leave, I would be worse off than he would be even without him having somebody to do all of those things. He will be unwilling to give me any financial support even though he makes a lot more than I do, he has already said I make enough to get by and we both agreed we don't want long-drawn out legal battles if we do split up where all we are doing is watching dollars we both will need go to attorneys. So to avoid that, I will need to agree to his terms, which is "no alimony needed" - so HE loses his 'services', and I lose being able to make it on my much-lower income while he keeps his. THAT is probably the practical reason why I can't go - the other emotional reason why I can't leave even after he does all of that, is I DON'T KNOW and because I don't, I feel like I seriously have some kind of mental/psychological issue.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

The EXACT cause of the resentment was me constantly 'badgering' him about when he was going to initiate something and me not being happy about the infrequency of which we were together. He said it was on ME to take action and just do something instead of continually pointing it out. My whole point was I want HIM to be interested for the sake of being interested, and not me having to come and coax him into it. He says it tore him down, me making him feel like he wasn't good enough because I asked too much. Does that warrant being on that list of similar items, or not even comparable? I get what you are saying about those kind of things................and it kind of made me laugh a little bit which is quite the feat, as I've been in such a dismal state for the last year!



oldshirt said:


> ..…..and in regards to wanting to address whatever has "caused his resentment", one must first have a legitimate cause of resentment to address.
> 
> Have you cheated on him?
> 
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> If I did leave, I would be worse off than he would be even without him having somebody to do all of those things. He will be unwilling to give me any financial support even though he makes a lot more than I do, he has already said I make enough to get by and we both agreed we don't want long-drawn out legal battles if we do split up where all we are doing is watching dollars we both will need go to attorneys. So to avoid that, I will need to agree to his terms, which is "no alimony needed" .


Lol. Is your H a lawyer? Nope didn't think so. Your H has NO CLUE what he is talking about. He,again (surprise surprise) is using scare tactics to make you stay. I urge you to dial up that lawyer again and ask what a divorce would look like in terms of financials. I promise you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'll repeat what I told you before- your H cannot "not want" to do something all he wants but if the court orders something (i.e. child support and perhaps alimony) there is nothing he can do about it. Don't let him scare you. He's full of BS.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Lol. Is your H a lawyer? Nope didn't think so. Your H has NO CLUE what he is talking about. He,again (surprise surprise) is using scare tactics to make you stay. I urge you to dial up that lawyer again and ask what a divorce would look like in terms of financials. I promise you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'll repeat what I told you before- your H cannot "not want" to do something all he wants but if the court orders something (i.e. child support and perhaps alimony) there is nothing he can do about it. Don't let him scare you. He's full of BS.


Lucy, he says he is trying to protect what assets we do have saved, and by not agreeing to an uncontested divorce where we are in agreement on terms, we are frittering away hard-earned money to attorneys that otherwise we could keep. He seems sincere that is the reason why - avoiding crazy legal fees. I know I must sound clueless, but he has what seems are truly legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING. I truly don't want to throw away money on a long and drawn out legal battle which is what he says he is trying to avoid.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Lucy, he says he is trying to protect what assets we do have saved, and by not agreeing to an uncontested divorce where we are in agreement on terms, we are frittering away hard-earned money to attorneys that otherwise we could keep. He seems sincere that is the reason why - avoiding crazy legal fees. I know I must sound clueless, but he has what seems are truly legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING. I truly don't want to throw away money on a long and drawn out legal battle which is what he says he is trying to avoid.


You can certainly do a settlement agreement but I highly suggest you at least get a lawyer on board, which costs money and cannot be avoided. Why? Because if he can't compromise in your marriage,what makes you think he will compromise and be fair in a divorce? If you decide to stay in this marriage, it will be on his terms with no regard for your needs. What makes you think he will agree with you in a divorce?!

Sometimes things are better left to the professionals. Frankly I wouldn't trust him with anything. He only has his own best interests at heart. He's flat out told you he doesn't care about your needs. Believe him. He's trying to scare you. You need someone in your corner. It shouldn't be him.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> You can certainly do a settlement agreement but I highly suggest you at least get a lawyer on board, which costs money and cannot be avoided. Why? Because if he can't compromise in your marriage,what makes you think he will compromise and be fair in a divorce? If you decide to stay in this marriage, it will be on his terms with no regard for your needs. What makes you think he will agree with you in a divorce?!
> 
> Sometimes things are better left to the professionals. Frankly I wouldn't trust him with anything. He only has his own best interests at heart. He's flat out told you he doesn't care about your needs. Believe him. He's trying to scare you. You need someone in your corner. It shouldn't be him.


I agree, getting a lawyer on board is needed, but trying to avoid going to COURT. I would want to get one just to make sure my interests are being protected, for sure. I can see him going into a fit if I get something he thinks I shouldn't, BUT.............I dare him to go off on anyone like he does to us at home. He absolutely will not do that - guaranteed. Nobody else sees that side of him. But yes, I do think getting one on board just to take a look at what is being proposed for the settlement is a good idea. For sure!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> > Dude that is just carrot-dangling to keep you hooked and not packing your bags. It is just a manipulation.
> ...


The attorneys/court will decide how things are split and if you are entitled to child and/or spousal support. Not your soon to be ex.

It's totally on you if you don't seek legal counsel.

Many family law attorneys do free consults. You should make an appointment with one so you know what you'd really be facing.

But honestly, you can do it. I left a marriage with young children, and with a health issue, and not having worked in over a decade.

If I could do it, anyone can.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't agree to anything he's proposed regarding finances until you consult an attorney.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Livvie said:


> The attorneys/court will decide how things are split and if you are entitled to child and/or spousal support. Not your soon to be ex.
> 
> It's totally on you if you don't seek legal counsel.
> 
> ...


YES, I feel confident that I will get legal counsel. He is going to HATE it and probably be even worse to live with if he thinks I am going around behind him, but I have to look out for my future. I will TELL him I am going to do it so I don't feel guilty going, but will be prepared in case he tries to sway me - I won't let it


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Lucy999, spent about 45 min on the phone with the domestic violence folks - they very much help people 'like me' (i.e., not physically abused). Got some local resources where i can go in person, which I am planning on checking out. She verified some of the same things said on here - it's NOT normal and not right. Evidently a LOT of people in my situation struggle with reading. They had something in their library of resources that addressed that very thing! VERY pertinent and I feel "less crazy" having talked to them!


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Calling DV Hotline is brilliant and takes courage. Listen to resources on Emotional Abuse if that works for you. I'm not trying to be sacrilegious, but he is not god. He has learned how to prey on your fears and increase your doubts. He convinces you he knows best--but this is best for himself only. Look up the cycle of violence....


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

sunsetmist said:


> Calling DV Hotline is brilliant and takes courage. Listen to resources on Emotional Abuse if that works for you. I'm not trying to be sacrilegious, but he is not god. He has learned how to prey on your fears and increase your doubts. He convinces you he knows best--but this is best for himself only. Look up the cycle of violence....


YES! They actually gave me links to several resources on their site, and one was the cycle of violence - and the "power and control wheel' - OMG, I was shocked at what I read. They were extremely patient and KNOWLEDGEABLE. It was obvious that they deal with this a lot. I definitely know my self-esteem is GONE and see now how it has gradually just gotten to this point (someone on here referred to the frog-in-boiling-water analogy. That's exactly what it has been. The more I read, research, and listen, the more things are becoming clear as to what is going on and just how badly my mind must be after all of that. I hope the fog continues to lift!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Lucy999, spent about 45 min on the phone with the domestic violence folks - they very much help people 'like me' (i.e., not physically abused). Got some local resources where i can go in person, which I am planning on checking out. She verified some of the same things said on here - it's NOT normal and not right. Evidently a LOT of people in my situation struggle with reading. They had something in their library of resources that addressed that very thing! VERY pertinent and I feel "less crazy" having talked to them!


Oh I am so happy they were helpful. And, I'm really proud of you. This is a really great step.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> YES, I feel confident that I will get legal counsel. He is going to HATE it and probably be even worse to live with if he thinks I am going around behind him, but I have to look out for my future. I will TELL him I am going to do it so I don't feel guilty going, but will be prepared in case he tries to sway me - I won't let it


I don't think you should tell him anything about seeing a lawyer, given his rage. Did the DV hotline talk about that? Can you talk to them about that? You should. 

In my case, I worked closely with the YWCA and they helped me with a safe "exit plan." I kept things under wraps until it was go time. He wasn't happy,he raged and it was a nightmare, I spent a few weeks away from home with my dogs on friends' couches until he left. Then, he broke in a few times while I was at work. He totally trashed the house
It was horrifying. 

I'm telling you this because the most dangerous time for an abuse victim is when s/he leaves. The abuser is losing control and then acts out. I'd like to think this won't happen, but never say never. He already rages, he already throws things, who's to say he wont cross that line?

I think you should talk to the experts about your plan to tell your husband about consulting with an attorney and see what they say.

Also,you are easily swayed and manipulated by him. Do you think you're strong enough for that? He will be HELL to live with. Don't tell him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> If I did leave, I would be worse off than he would be even without him having somebody to do all of those things. He will be unwilling to give me any financial support even though he makes a lot more than I do, he has already said I make enough to get by and we both agreed we don't want long-drawn out legal battles if we do split up where all we are doing is watching dollars we both will need go to attorneys. So to avoid that, I will need to agree to his terms, which is "no alimony needed" - so HE loses his 'services', and I lose being able to make it on my much-lower income while he keeps his. THAT is probably the practical reason why I can't go -


That's not how divorce and child support works.

Please see a lawyer and get the actual facts of divorce in your jurisdiction and do not take divorce advice from your fat, impotent husband. That's not really how divorce works. 

Yes, people can easily send themselves to the poorhouse by arguing over who gets the bar stools and who gets which cereal bowls. 

But courts are pretty clear and follow established formulas on establishing child support and such. 

If the incomes are significantly different, child support will follow an established formula whether he wants it to or not and it may not even have anything to do with what you agree to or not. 

People can ****er about silverware and vinyl record collections and run up lawyer bills - but there isn't a lot of ****er room over child support and child care. The court is going to order the kids not pay the price in their lifestyle and wellbeing due to their parents being selfish and lazy. The kids will be supported in the end regardless of what the divorcing parents agree on or disagree on.

Get divorce facts from divorce lawyers and not from some fat and impotent husband who wants his maid and babysitter to stay in the house.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I cook, clean, pay bills, keep the household running - we both do our own laundry, kids are old enough to do theirs now, and we both do the grocery shopping - so sort of a combination of both.


So...he does his own laundry (big whoop) and goes food shopping with you.

And you do the rest. Typical.

Isn't this the guy who put together an Excel spreadsheet *imploring* you not to divorce him because it will be too much of a financial hit?

If you don't think finances are one of the *biggest *reasons he wants to stay married, you'd be very wrong. Secondly, he doesn't want to lose his mommy (you) who basically does everything for him but his laundry.

If you stay and he doesn't have to touch you, then it's win/win *for him*.

But I can't even think of ONE positive thing *for you* that you'd gain if you stayed with this clod.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> I don't think you should tell him anything about seeing a lawyer, given his rage. Did the DV hotline talk about that? Can you talk to them about that? You should.
> 
> In my case, I worked closely with the YWCA and they helped me with a safe "exit plan." I kept things under wraps until it was go time. He wasn't happy,he raged and it was a nightmare, I spent a few weeks away from home with my dogs on friends' couches until he left. Then, he broke in a few times while I was at work. He totally trashed the house
> It was horrifying.
> ...


I see your point. My mom is actually has been concerned about him doing something worse, as has my brother - I have always thought they were just being a little overly concerned, but maybe not - they DV page does have a section about safety plans. I'll call back when I have some time alone and see what they recommend. I guess I should really be proactive in that area............your situation sounds like it was awful ((( I hope your life is better than you imagined post-relationship - sounds like you really had it rough ((


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> That's not how divorce and child support works.
> 
> Please see a lawyer and get the actual facts of divorce in your jurisdiction and do not take divorce advice from your fat, impotent husband. That's not really how divorce works.
> 
> ...



YES, definitely going to find out from a lawyer. One of the "kids" so it really is the younger one (16) where it would even be an issue. Even with adequate child support, I still don't know if I will have enough to pay my bills. But I suppose the attorney can also help me sort through that?? So many unknowns..........so I need to at least get some general info. - from someone that knows. I am going to do it!


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I see your point. My mom is actually has been concerned about him doing something worse, as has my brother - I have always thought they were just being a little overly concerned, but maybe not - they DV page does have a section about safety plans. I'll call back when I have some time alone and see what they recommend. I guess I should really be proactive in that area............your situation sounds like it was awful ((( I hope your life is better than you imagined post-relationship - sounds like you really had it rough ((


Lean on your mom and brother for support and help. I'm sure they want to help you.

I appreciate your comments. I just got married to the most chill man and I have a lovely 18 yo stepdaughter. 

A little story for you-On our first date a total stranger who was high on something came over and while she was friendly, she sat down, and ate fries straight from his plate. I steeled myself for a rage fest because that's what I was used to. He looked at her and said, 
"they're good, aren't they?" I knew right then and there that good men DO exist. And 6 years later we are married! Like I said before, life is so much better on the other side. I am 50. It's never too late to get out. I so badly want that for you.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So...he does his own laundry (big whoop) and goes food shopping with you.
> 
> And you do the rest. Typical.
> 
> ...



StillGotIt, I would be the one that struggled financially, more so than him - even with child support, like I mentioned to another poster, I am still going to be the one disadvantaged because of our difference in income. Even child support wouldn't make up that difference. So HE loses the one that does all of those things you mentioned, he doesn't have to touch me, AND he is still better off financially than me. I would 'gain' not struggling to live financially, but not sure what else if there is no change..........I "lose" even though HIS behavior is the one that is awful. And I "lose" if I stay - no real good answer either way.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > The attorneys/court will decide how things are split and if you are entitled to child and/or spousal support. Not your soon to be ex.
> ...


I would NOT tell him you are going to consult with a lawyer!! Don't tell him anything until you are ready to pull the divorce trigger. It might take many months to get a divorce. Tell him when you are ready to move forward with starting the long process. Not when you are just gathering information.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> would be the one that struggled financially, more so than him - even with child support, like I mentioned to another poster, I am still going to be the one disadvantaged because of our difference in income. Even child support wouldn't make up that difference.


How do you know this if you haven't spoken with an attorney yet? Granted, he makes more than you do, but it wouldn't be unusual for you to be granted spousal support for half the term of the marriage that could enable you to return to school or get more training for a better job. Also, as a rule, half of what he earned during the marriage would be yours. In a marriage of 10 years or longer, the courts consider it a marriage of longevity, which would be favorable to you as far as a monetary award. A marriage of 20 years or longer generally gets the disadvantaged spouse lifetime support.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I would NOT tell him you are going to consult with a lawyer!! Don't tell him anything until you are ready to pull the divorce trigger. It might take many months to get a divorce. Tell him when you are ready to move forward with starting the long process. Not when you are just gathering information.


I agree 100%. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by telling him and an endless list of valid reasons to get your game plan in place and all your ducks in a row and ready to before saying a word.

Have all your financial plans in place, a place to move into, a plan for the care and schooling of the kids and your support system and post-divorce plan in place before pulling the trigger.

Your lawyer will help you with that, he/she deals with all of this stuff day in and day out. 

The reconciliation crowd will want you to give him advanced notice so that he supposedly will have a chance to try to "fix" things and change. 

But if he wanted to change, he would lose the weight and make love to you now. 

If you want to work on the marriage then try to talk him into couseling, losing weight, not having fits if anger and having sex with you (if he won't do that, then you have your answer)

But if your mind is made up to leave, then do your homework in private and get your plan in place and ducks in a row.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I see your point. My mom is actually has been concerned about him doing something worse, as has my brother - I have always thought they were just being a little overly concerned, but maybe not - they DV page does have a section about safety plans. I'll call back when I have some time alone and see what they recommend. I guess I should really be proactive in that area............your situation sounds like it was awful ((( I hope your life is better than you imagined post-relationship - sounds like you really had it rough ((


Your family has been trying to look out for you. Let them.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Lucy, he says he is trying to protect what assets we do have saved, and by not agreeing to an uncontested divorce where we are in agreement on terms, we are frittering away hard-earned money to attorneys that otherwise we could keep. He seems sincere that is the reason why - avoiding crazy legal fees. I know I must sound clueless, but he has what seems are truly legitimate reasons for EVERYTHING. I truly don't want to throw away money on a long and drawn out legal battle which is what he says he is trying to avoid.




Gaslighting and manipulating like he he always does. You should know his game by now. I am glad you are going to get legal advice, he doesn’t get to pick and choose what he will or will not pay, it doesn’t work that way. He really knows how to work you, you seem to believe everything he tells you. You need to realize the man is full of ****. 

You are best off getting him out of your life. His refusal of sex is bad enough on its own to end this, but the anger issues nails the coffin. Living with an angry man is hell and there is no amount of other “good”’in the relationship to justify staying with one. They don’t change. Ever. I’ve been there, I have more than one tshirt. I know what this is like. Keep moving forward and don’t allow him to continue to bully you. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/editor/separator.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He is lying his ASS off to you. He knows damn good and well that he has zero intentions of ever being intimate with you. He just knows that he has enough control over you and your thoughts that if he tosses out this gigantic crumb, that you will be willing to starve to death for it. He is a master manipulator and you fall for it every time. 

And to answer your question posted earlier... NO NO NO this is NOT your fault!!! You are being manipulated and abused. Period. 


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> StillGotIt, I would be the one that struggled financially, more so than him - even with child support, like I mentioned to another poster, I am still going to be the one disadvantaged because of our difference in income. Even child support wouldn't make up that difference. So HE loses the one that does all of those things you mentioned, he doesn't have to touch me, AND he is still better off financially than me. I would 'gain' not struggling to live financially, but not sure what else if there is no change..........I "lose" even though HIS behavior is the one that is awful. And I "lose" if I stay - no real good answer either way.


It's obvious he did his best to present your financials at their worst (for _you_) on his handy dandy spreadsheet. That was designed to keep his housekeeper/maid at home doing his bidding and out of divorce court - this guy is about as transparent as it gets. 

But what he didn't expound upon is the fact that on top of losing half his assets, depending on your state, he might have to pay you *lifetime alimony*. 

And on top of THAT, you're also entitled to a portion of his *retirement*.

Did he put all _that_ in his trusty little spreadsheet? I'm betting not.

He's a self-serving, manipulating, selfish, self-entitled *ass-hole*. Period.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Look, this guy is a selfish ass and knows very well that no woman would want him if you left. He bullies and rages and manipulates you so he won't wind up totally alone in his old age. Plus, he gets the added benefit of everyone thinking he must be a really great husband because any woman with a lick of sense would have left his selfish ass years ago.

He doesn't want you and he doesn't give a rat's patoot about the marriage. He's only concerned with himself. If he is so concerned about lawyers eating up your savings, then tell him that it will behoove him to see things your way and not contest you on anything. Get your hands on any financial paperwork including any possible pensions/401ks for the attorney to review.

You can have a lifestyle or a life. Your choice.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It's obvious he did his best to present your financials at their worst (for _you_) on his handy dandy spreadsheet. That was designed to keep his housekeeper/maid at home doing his bidding and out of divorce court - this guy is about as transparent as it gets.
> 
> But what he didn't expound upon is the fact that on top of losing half his assets, depending on your state, he might have to pay you *lifetime alimony*.
> 
> ...


Yep, he presented all this thinking that he gets some kind of say in what you are entitled to. NOPE, sorry Charlie. He seems to think that everything is HIS... well its NOT. So you make damn sure you dont enter into any kind of agreement with him about ANYTHING, go only through an attorney. 

Oh... and for the love of God, DO NOT TELL HIM when you go to speak with an attorney!! Do not let him in on ANYTHING you get planned!


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