# 10 years together, but not married



## joie (May 19, 2019)

I have been with my boyfriend for almost 10 years. We live like a married couple. We have a 7.5 y/o together (he was unplanned). My boyfriend often refers to me as his wife to coworkers, acquaintances and the like. His friends call me his wife. We're not married though. 

He doesn't want to propose because he doesn't want to get down on one knee. The closest he'll get is casually asking "wanna get married" while driving home from the grocery store or something. He doesn't have a romantic bone in his body. He thinks rings are a waste of money and has made it clear he would never buy one even if I want one. However, he will spend thousands of dollars on things that he wants. He makes a lot of big ticket purchases. For example, a $2500 TV, $1500 computer monitor, and a $4000 guitar. He doesn't want a real wedding because they are a waste of money. His parents want to pay for it in full though. He doesn't want to run off to the courthouse or city hall because he doesn't want to spend the $150 on a marriage license. 

Am I wrong to be upset about it? Am I being stupid? I want the proposal, a small wedding (nothing fancy, just something), and I want to feel like he really wants me and isn't just stuck with me. I feel like I'm good enough to be with but not worth marrying. He says marriage is stupid, a waste of money and just a piece of paper. Do some guys really think that? Or is there something wrong with me? Earlier in our relationship he wanted a perfect proposal and a big wedding, so I don't know what I did wrong. 7 years ago he told all of his friends and family that he was going to pick out a ring and propose. It was right after our son was born. That didn't happen. It's embarassing when friends and family ask why we're not married. Every time a friend gets engaged or married, or even if I see something on TV or online, I get jealous. 

Am I wrong to be upset about it? Am I being stupid?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Tell him your moving out and finding a new man until he decides your worth more than a guitar.

On a more serious note: You have already established the dynamic with him that you are not going anywhere.
Until you flip the script you will only get more of the same.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

He's been with you for 10 years. You have a son together. If he felt he was "stuck" with you he probably would have left long ago. So where does this idea of "I want to make sure he really wants me" come from?

Forget the romantic proposal and Cinderella-like foreplay to speaking vows. He may not be romantic, but he wouldn't ask you about marriage if he didn't want to be with you. Take that for now, work on romance later.

Rings are not negotiable. You need a diamond AND wedding ring. Tell him I said to stop being a cheap bastard.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

joie said:


> He says marriage is stupid, a waste of money and just a piece of paper. Do some guys really think that?


Yes. In my younger days, I thought that, too. I watched so many people get married, then divorce, then cheat (and some always cheated) that I thought it was mostly irrelevant. However, as I grew and matured, I recognize the value and safety that marriage provides. Today, I would not long-term live with someone without marriage.



joie said:


> I feel like I'm good enough to be with but not worth marrying.


You may be feeling something which is not based in reality. I don't think that your boyfriend would talk of marriage if he felt you "weren't good enough".... I'm not very romantic, either, I'm more of a Joe Friday (just the facts, ma'am) kind of guy, but my wife is definitely "worth" marriage and I married her with no hesitation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's fine the way things are. You're not. 

You know what your choices are. The only question is which one can you live with?


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## joie (May 19, 2019)

Up until a year or two ago my boyfriend said he felt stuck because we have a child together. Our child was unplanned and my boyfriend didn't want me to go through with the pregnancy. He planned on proposing 7 years ago and told everyone. Then he changed his mind. He had it planned out to the last detail. I found out a few years later when we were drinking with friends and someone let it slip. That info makes me feel not worth it. A few times he's casually asked "wanna get married" and I've said yes. He's out as soon as I say a marriage license is $150. He also says he wouldn't wear a ring, which bothers me.

I can't ruin my family over not getting my way. It bothers me and hurts more than it should. How do I let it go and be happy with what I have?


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## PM1 (Aug 9, 2011)

The sad part I read here is that his logic, whether sound or flawed, is making you feel less valued. That is real and it sounds like you two need to communicate.

That said, is the relationship good otherwise? Is he faithful and loving? If so, you have something that many married folks do not.

This only helps on a wedding, which is not your key problem. But I had some friends who got married, it was the second for both. They didn't need to register or any of that because they were old enough to have all of the startup items you might get from a wedding gift list. They had a big potluck-style wedding and asked people to bring a dish to share as a "gift" for the day. They said everyone loved it and the wedding was pretty much free. It sounds like the parents would pay, but maybe this would resonate with him. Maybe the parents can pay for the license fee?

I bought my wife a ring. Small, but what I could afford at the time. As I get older, I do often wonder why our society is so focused on shiny rocks. But we all have items that mean something to us, so it sounds like he better try to listen up a bit if a ring is very important to you. Good luck.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Why did you move in together if you wanted marriage? If you are in the states and you have a child together, then you are common law which is pretty much married and the piece of paper he doesn't want to sign doesn't deny the law of you to being together for 10 years as a family. 

Maybe he stupidly resents you having a child because it was obvious he never wanted it. Does he love the child now? Is he a good dad?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@joie, 

Here are a few realities for you from a lady who's been around the sun more than a few times. I'm 57yo and this Saturday, I'm marrying my best friend--it'll be my third marriage and honestly, I was not a person who ever wanted more than one. My first marriage ended because my exH was unfaithful and would not stop being unfaithful. From that marriage, I learned that it is REALLY important who you choose to marry. Don't just marry because you live together or because you have a child--marry someone who likes you for who you truly are and whom you like for who he truly is. My second marriage was a much healthier choice--I was a single mom of two in my 30's and thought no one would want that...but along came Dear Hubby who was a single dad of five and he was hoping to meet a lady who loved kids! That was me! Dear Hubby truly loved me and was a wonderful friend and companion, but he passed away in 2017. From that marriage, I learned that it is important to marry someone who not only loves you back, but who also will care for you and will inspire you to be a better YOU. 

This Saturday is my third wedding. I never EVER thought I'd have a chance to wear a wedding dress again --it just didn't seem to be in the cards. But let me tell you, my new hubby-to-be did not get down on one knee or release doves while an orchestra played. He didn't buy me some audacious diamond ring (that would snag on everything, make holding hands uncomfortable, and be way too big on my hand). In real life, real love is not about rose petals and spending a ton of money for a party. It is about how you treat each other on a day-to-day basis. Do you giggle in the kitchen? Dance in the living room? Hold hands while you drive? Tell each other about your joys and woes? Cuddle up at night? If your answers are no, then you're looking for a romantic proposal, a diamond ring, and a big old party to prove your worth. If your answers are yes, then you already KNOW your worth and don't need a flash mob at sunset, Princess Diana's sapphire, and a seating chart for 500 guests. 

Our engagement was the two of us agreeing together that we both wanted this. Our ring money was put into our wedding rings, because those are what have symbolic importance to us. And our ceremony is one we wrote that has meaning to us, and we have invited those whom we love whom we want to have witness our commitment to each other. If you get to the same point, and he still doesn't want to agree--doesn't want to proudly wear your ring--doesn't want those who are close to witness his promises to you...then I'd say you know what he's saying and you just don't want to hear it. If that IS what he's saying through his actions, it's sad, but believe it.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

You should look up the law in your area to see what the differences there are between married and common-law.

In many places, there are still a few fundamental differences in such things as who makes decisions if someone is incapacitated, who gets what if someone dies, etc.

Ask him if it's worth $150 to him for it to be you who makes medical decisions for him if he's injured in a car crash, or someone else. If it's worth $150 to him for you to get his pension if he should die unexpectedly.

That aside, it does sound like he values the TV, the monitor or the guitar more than he cares about what you want. That level of selfishness is not something that would be magically fixed by a wedding.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

joie said:


> I can't ruin my family over not getting my way. It bothers me and hurts more than it should. How do I let it go and be happy with what I have?


Question for you @joie would be if you ask him to buy you flowers... would he just say that freshly cut flowers are about to die and that it makes no sense to spend money on something like that? But meanwhile if you need to buy flowers for the landscaping he understands that because at least those will live all season, and you better buy the ones that continue to bloom every year after that?

However if your car has bad tires or worn brakes, I bet he has no problems spending whatever it takes to not only keep those in working order but perhaps he spends a little extra to make sure those things are done right. And if there is some little something that makes the kitchen run smoothly, hello brand new microwave or various accessories.


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## joie (May 19, 2019)

He only sees his opinion as valid. He's hard to talk to. I tried to talk to him yesterday about something else and was given the silent treatment all day. I avoid talking about things because it causes more problems and isn't worth it. We have talked about this but it's his way or the highway. 

I don't want a big wedding or expensive ring. I just want something. I do want him to get down on one knee and put a bit of thought into it (not spur of the moment). I don't expect a huge romantic gesture because that's not him anymore. I want him to care enough to put a bit of thought into it. Plan to go to a park and ask. It doesn't have to be huge. A bit of thought would be nice. I'd much rather a small and intimate wedding over inviting 500 people. My boyfriends parents want to pay for it all. I don't think they should but it's an option. We don't need them to. I honestly don't have many people I'd want to invite. I'd be happy with it just being us in a pretty setting. Maybe I'm being stupid and immature. I grew up thinking that by now (30) I'd be married and have a bunch of kids. Earlier in our relationship we talked about what we wanted and it lined up perfectly. His ideas changed and mine didnt. I don't want to have to drag him down the aisle. That won't feel good either. 

As far as I know he has never cheated on me. Other relationships he has. 

Our relationship isn't perfect. It's not bad though. What we want from the relationship is different but I'm use to it. 

We moved in together 18 months into our relationship. We were long distance and didn't want to be anymore. 

He says we are common-law and that's good enough. That's what I hear him tell friends as well. That and weddings and rings being a waste of money.

He didn't want our child at all. He felt trapped. It was bad for a long time but he's a good dad now.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

This also affects social security retirement benefits. As a spouse, when you hit retirement age, you are entitled to your own benefits, or 50% of spouses. Take whichever is greater.

Once the spouse passes on, you could receive 100% of their benefit OR 100% of yours. (Pretty sure this is still current.) 

If you are married for 10 years or longer: If you then divorce, you are still entitled to benefits later, unless you remarry, doesn't matter if they remarry. (Pretty sure this is still current.) 

But honestly given all you have said here, I would question whether or not marrying this guy is a good idea anyhow.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

joie said:


> Up until a year or two ago my boyfriend said he felt stuck because we have a child together. Our child was unplanned and my boyfriend didn't want me to go through with the pregnancy. He planned on proposing 7 years ago and told everyone. Then he changed his mind. He had it planned out to the last detail. I found out a few years later when we were drinking with friends and someone let it slip. That info makes me feel not worth it. A few times he's casually asked "wanna get married" and I've said yes. He's out as soon as I say a marriage license is $150. He also says he wouldn't wear a ring, which bothers me.
> 
> I can't ruin my family over not getting my way. It bothers me and hurts more than it should. How do I let it go and be happy with what I have?


Have you asked him what changed his mind about the proposal, and marriage in general? Him not wanting to wear a ring would bother the hell out of me, too.. what is the reason for that? I cant figure out if its just marriage he is opposed to, or if there is something about the relationship he is having issues with...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Jole,

You must realize you, as a person, are fully entitled to have your own opinion on how you'd like to progress in any relationship as you mature and grow. 

You sound like a wonderful person and ready to continue in you personal growth. 

Good for you.

What you want is perfectly normal and is a good step, if you believe this man would make a good husband. 

If you have doubts that's different story. 

Dipship has some growing up to do.


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## joie (May 19, 2019)

He's never bought flowers. He thinks its stupid when I buy them for myself. If I were to ask about buying garden flowers he'd say no. If I buy them and plant them he acknowledges they look good. 

He only wants to buy things if he wants them. The a/c broke in his car last year and he still hasn't replaced that because it's not worth $2000 to him. Our microwave is on its last days but he doesn't want to spend a couple hundred bucks to replace that. 

He'll spend a lot of money provided it's on things of value to him. 

His mind changed on the proposal because our relationship was rocky at the time. Now he thinks marriage is stupid and a waste of money. He doesn't want to wear a ring because he thinks it would be annoying or get in the way. I wonder if he's actually happy or just happy enough because there isn't another option right now. He says that's not true.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

joie said:


> Up until a year or two ago my boyfriend said he felt stuck because we have a child together. Our child was unplanned and my boyfriend didn't want me to go through with the pregnancy. He planned on proposing 7 years ago and told everyone. Then he changed his mind. He had it planned out to the last detail. I found out a few years later when we were drinking with friends and someone let it slip. That info makes me feel not worth it. A few times he's casually asked "wanna get married" and I've said yes. He's out as soon as I say a marriage license is $150. He also says he wouldn't wear a ring, which bothers me.
> 
> I can't ruin my family over not getting my way. It bothers me and hurts more than it should. How do I let it go and be happy with what I have?


Like someone else said, tell him you are leaving, and then leave.

He does not value you and he is a child, just loose him already...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

joie said:


> He's never bought flowers. He thinks its stupid when I buy them for myself. If I were to ask about buying garden flowers he'd say no. If I buy them and plant them he acknowledges they look good.
> 
> *He only wants to buy things if he wants them.* The a/c broke in his car last year and he still hasn't replaced that because it's not worth $2000 to him. Our microwave is on its last days but he doesn't want to spend a couple hundred bucks to replace that.
> 
> ...


Be realistic and ask yourself if *this* is the kind of man you really wish to be married to...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Of course he says that's not true. It wouldn't benefit him to admit he's using you (assuming he is). 

It comes down to words vs. actions.


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## joie (May 19, 2019)

It's not bad enough to break up with him. He's my child's father. We have been together for 10 years. It's not bad enough to warrant breaking up my family, losing our home, separating belongings, financial struggles, figuring out custody, losing time with my child and having my child eventually raised by someone else half the time.


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## joie (May 19, 2019)

When I was young 4 parties were fighting for custody and it was messy. 4 years were spent in court while I was bounced between 4 homes. The fighting and going back to court didn't stop until I was 18. I don't want that.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Have you ever told him how much his attitude hurts you and how it really makes you feel? If you have and he dismisses it, there is not much you can do besides learn to live with it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

joie said:


> He's never bought flowers. He thinks its stupid when I buy them for myself. If I were to ask about buying garden flowers he'd say no. If I buy them and plant them he acknowledges they look good.
> 
> He only wants to buy things if he wants them. The a/c broke in his car last year and he still hasn't replaced that because it's not worth $2000 to him. Our microwave is on its last days but he doesn't want to spend a couple hundred bucks to replace that.
> 
> ...


This probably makes no sense and I may be projecting some of my own issues here... But read up on Autism Spectrum Disorders and see if that describes some of your "husband's" behaviors. 

A lack of empathy and the issue with a ring being annoying (might be associated with sensory issues) could be characteristics of Autism.

https://blog.udemy.com/do-i-have-autism/

I could be completely wrong, but worth a read....

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If it's not bad enough to break up over then your other choice is to learn to live with it. Sounds like it bothers you though so that won't be easy.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

joie said:


> It's not bad enough to warrant breaking up my family, losing our home, separating belongings, financial struggles, figuring out custody, losing time with my child and having my child eventually raised by someone else half the time.


I understand, and with those things in the differential, I agree that it's "not bad enough". You may be thankful one day that you weren't married legally.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

You do have to be prepared to make some hard decisions going forward.

Better to make them now while young.

There are other men out there if you so choose. Also, you could get child support and "alimony" if you left, *best to talk to a lawyer on your region's common law marriage particulars. 

Hang in there.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

joie said:


> Am I being stupid? I want the proposal, a small wedding (nothing fancy, just something), and I want to feel like he really wants me and isn't just stuck with me.


This is what I've never understood about women.

If you're not good enough to marry, then why on earth would you be having kids with him?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

@joie - Here is what I simply can't wrap my head around: He doesn't have a romantic bone in his body. You aren't a priority to him. He's downright selfish. 

But you want to stay together based on the trauma you underwent as a child. And, YES, what you endured WAS traumatic. The thing is, you are basing WHAT IS on WHAT WAS. Since it doesn't sound like he gives a damn about anyone other than himself, I doubt you'd get into a protracted custody battle. Sorry, but staying with this loser because of your past experience dooms you to remain RESENTFUL that he treats you like crap.

What sort of role model is this jerk to his child anyway? Seriously.

Nope, sorry, I just can't do anything but feel sorry that you are unwilling to walk away from a loser based on the past. History is NOT always doomed to repeat itself.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Is he a black and white kind of guy? We know he likes to be in control and he thinks not marrying gives him that. Is he still mad that YOU got pregnant (He wasn't involved)? Even though he considered marriage after birth of child, rocky times intervened.

He knows you want marriage--costs of license. etc. are only an excuse. Deep down he 'punishes' you for trapping him then maturing--while he did not--no romance, no marriage, no flowers. You likely want more children and now he controls that too.

Bottom line, he does not value you enough to give of himself. On the other hand what you want is not important enough to you to seek a different life.

I'm a firm believer in counseling--he'd say no, of course, figuring you'd let him get by with this. Don't wait 10 years and be sad about your choices.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> If you are in the states and you have a child together, then you are common law<snip>


This is untrue. In the US only certain states still recognize Common Law marriages and many of those only still recognize older Common Law marriages that existed before their laws changed.



joie said:


> He says we are common-law and that's good enough.


Well, that depends. If you live in a state that recognizes Common Law AND have met all the criteria of your state, then yes. Otherwise, you're of no legal relation and are, more or less, legally his housemate and co-parent, nothing more.

The few states that do still recognize Common Law marriage only do so under a certain set of circumstances that include the couple presenting themselves to society as married, presenting themselves professionally as married, sharing a surname on legal documents (Driver's License/StateID, utilities, financial accounts, ect), and filing taxes as married, for X years (varies by state). 

The states that still recognize new Common Law marriages are: 

Alabama 
Colorado 
District of Columbia 
Iowa 
Kansas 
Montana 
Oklahoma
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas 
Utah 

These states recognize Common Law that existed prior to their laws changing.

Georgia (if created prior to 1997), 
Idaho (if created before 1996), 
Ohio (if created prior to 10/1991), 
Pennsylvania (if created before 9/2003), 

New Hampshire recognizes Common Law marriages for inheritance purposes only.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

joie said:


> It's not bad enough to break up with him. He's my child's father. We have been together for 10 years. It's not bad enough to warrant breaking up my family, losing our home, separating belongings, financial struggles, figuring out custody, losing time with my child and having my child eventually raised by someone else half the time.


And this goes straight back to my first post.

He knows this is EXACTLY the truth. You are not going anywhere.

I can understand that you very likely are looking for empathy for your situation, but the unfortunate truth is that nothing is going to change.

It would be best to focus your energy on what you DO have instead of what you don't.

If you really do want change your going to have to completely flip the script on him and change the direction of your life. You have to be 100% willing to do what
you say or you will only yet FURTHER reinforce you are not going anywhere if you don't.

Don't make any threats you are willing to carry out. That is a fools errand.

If I were you: Learn to live with what you have .... or learn to do what is hard. There are no other options.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

sunsetmist said:


> He knows you want marriage--costs of license. etc. are only an excuse.


This. The cost of the marriage itself is negligible. My husband and I both wanted to be married, and we had a beautiful (small) wedding because we were able to pay for it ourselves. Had we not been able to fund a wedding, we both would have happily just gone to the registry office and gotten married there. We just wanted to be married.

If he hasn't married you after 10 years, he's not going to, certainly not willingly. You have to decide if you can live with that or not.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

If your family is indeed a family, then needing a marriage ceremony is something you may need to let go of. If he is a loving, responsible father; you should try and talk to him about things that will mke you happy such as the ring and a small ceremony. 

You three are a family, he is not the only one that counts. Do you work inside and out of the house? Why does he get to decide how money is spent? Do you have no say so in this relationship?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

What area do you live in out of curiosity?


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

Joi - I have read through this thread, and I've noticed you've used the word "stupid" a lot, referring to yourself. You ask if you are being "stupid", he says you wanting flowers is "stupid", etc. etc.

Nothing wrong with wanting what you want. He doesn't want to give you what you want. He makes you feel "stupid" for wanting what you want.

As hard as it is, I agree with those who say you should leave him. And work on yourself and your self esteem.

It will be hard, but not as hard as living with a man who makes you feel stupid and question your worth as a person.

You are setting a terrible example for your child. As much trauma as you are still experiencing from being bounced around in custody battles, your child as an adult will face their own childhood demons stemming from having two parents who are at odds with each other, and a mother who was beaten down and feeling stupid and a father who was extremely self centered.

Is he cheap with his child ? Does he say it is "stupid" to buy birthday presents and cake for a kid ? Does he say it is "stupid" to buy any type of treat for a kid ? (fun kid centered vacations, a shiny new bike for Christmas, etc)

You need to consider how this one sided relationship will affect your child. You still carry scars from your childhood. Do you want that for your child ?

Good luck to you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think you should sit him down and have a heart to heart.

Write down the key points you want to discuss.

1. will he ever marry you?
2. What changed it for him?
3. Does he still love you?
4. Has he ever cheated? Cheating in prior relationships is a red flag.
5. You are only 30, if he is not going to commit to you in the way you want, it may be better to move on.
6. He sounds very selfish. Maybe he needs to realize what he will lose


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

joie said:


> He only sees his opinion as valid. He's hard to talk to. I tried to talk to him yesterday about something else and was given the silent treatment all day. I avoid talking about things because it causes more problems and isn't worth it. We have talked about this but it's his way or the highway.
> 
> I don't want a big wedding or expensive ring. I just want something. I do want him to get down on one knee and put a bit of thought into it (not spur of the moment). I don't expect a huge romantic gesture because that's not him anymore. I want him to care enough to put a bit of thought into it. Plan to go to a park and ask. It doesn't have to be huge. A bit of thought would be nice. I'd much rather a small and intimate wedding over inviting 500 people. My boyfriends parents want to pay for it all. I don't think they should but it's an option. We don't need them to. I honestly don't have many people I'd want to invite. I'd be happy with it just being us in a pretty setting. Maybe I'm being stupid and immature. I grew up thinking that by now (30) I'd be married and have a bunch of kids. Earlier in our relationship we talked about what we wanted and it lined up perfectly. His ideas changed and mine didnt. I don't want to have to drag him down the aisle. That won't feel good either.
> 
> ...


It sounds like he's not really that into you to be brutally honest. You said, "I want him to care enough". That's exactly your entire problem. He doesn't. Either accept you are with someone who will never be the person you thought you would end up with, or continue torturing yourself over it. You'll never have your Cinderella story with this person. What you do with that knowledge is your choice. You can accept you have the equivalent of the ****ty old Ford and live with it, or dump it, but you can't turn it into a Ferrari.


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