# How much do people REALLY CHANGE over the years ? How have you changed ?...



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I see these comments everywhere.. consistently.. how people CHANGE.. everyone changes... add: If you haven't changed.. something must be wrong with you.. even though we outright admit that THESE VERY CHANGES are what often hurts our relationships, marriages . 

So HOW have you changed, how has your spouse changed... whether in good ways, or bad that has hurt your marriage.. or enhanced it?

I tend to see it in another light too...that many times, especially with younger people... they may not be fully in touch with who they are .. what they want in life.. still trying to figure this out...but it was there all the time.. I am not one who feels we fundamentally change all that much I guess -at our core. At least this hasn't been my experience so much. .

If I went back in time.. I still understand who I was.. what I wanted ..it would still be the same today as it was yesterday.. I have grown in some areas that has benefited our marriage though.. lost some inhibitions (sexually speaking)... all a plus. 

I can't say my husband has changed much at all.. he's making more money, he's a dad.. he's a better mechanic..but really.. at his core.. he's the same sweet guy I met when I was 15. Are we not normal?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I agree, but life tends to change people.
For example. As a young teenager one of my greatest fears was having a mentally handicapped child. Guess what, I have one.
I am a very private person and do not like drawing attention to myself. My 21 year old daughter who "looks" completely normal walks around with a bag full of crayons and stuffed animals hanging in her hands. She WILL NOT go anywhere without it. People look at me, look at her and stop in their tracks because it just does not compute.
In the past, this petrified me and made me uncomfortable. Now, in time, it is par for the course. I don't notice at all.

In other words, sometimes people change out of necessity, out of force of circumstance.

When I first got divorced 28 years ago, I told my current wife while dating her:
1. I am never getting married again (been married 25 years)
2. Will not have children (have 3)
3. Will not have a house with a big yard (live on 24 acres)
4. Will never have pets (2 donkeys, 2 goats, 3 dogs)
5. Will never have a pool (got a pool)
6. Wanted to be a pilot and travel the world. Even became a professional pilot flying a 4 engine jet at 23 years of age(co-pilot). (have not touched a plane or traveled in many, many years and have NO desire to. In fact, my favorite week of the year is when my entire family goes to club med and I stay home alone.)
7. Used to play golf every single day, day in and day out. Played in tournaments. It possessed me.
(I cannot remember the last time I played golf. Can't stand the waste of time.)

Yes, I have changed much.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I have matured LOADS since we married 11 years ago at age 20 (me) and 24. I also got in touch with my kinky side (husband was first everything). However my basic desires and needs in marriage have not changed. Im still submissive by choice and desire a take-charge spouse. I can get b!tchy though which my H seems to accept the challenge.

My H is still the same with being able to convince and influence me in just about everything. But he truly is such a positive person who is committed to to our relationship and so appreciative of me as his wife (even during my b!tchy) times, that I am able to deal with that side of him. I yield to him as long as he has our best interest at heart. If i ever feel that has changed we would have some work to do.

One other thing that has not changed: my hubby still floats my boat as much as he did when i was an 18 year old lovestruck teen. More mellow and manageable but still there.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

@UMP.. that's a lot of changes alright !!.. but my question is.. BEFORE things went sour in your 1st marriage.. you may have wanted, or at least been OPEN to those very things you said you'd never do again ...that's pretty common. 

Basically BAD experiences can surely change us.. or have us want to change our course.. 

I guess our life would be very boring for most people.. I don't think we've had a lot of new & exciting experiences.. compared to the average Joe or Jane.. maybe this is part of it.. but we're ok with that.. the "simple life" has always been enough. ..If I hear that song on the radio.. "Simple Man"- that's my husband !

Sometimes he'll come home from work.. I'll ask how his day was.. and his reply will be "Uneventful".. but to us.. that's a good thing .. sometimes change may = a layoff or something that's going to shake us up.. I think there are people who LOVE Change.. and those who like things to remain the same.. we are both geared this way.. I like Nostalgia..... in our area.. seems many places we visited over the years, memories (where our family went to eat, etc).. they are closing.. it's sad..  

My husband's never been on an airplane.. Me, only once when I was a teen to visit my mother... Though we enjoy traveling, taking vacations, Disney, etc... we do get out.. Our jobs are those 9-5 types.. you don't bring the work home... we get out a lot due to our kids.. their activities.. 

One of my greatest fears was also having a Handicapped child.. we didn't experience that.. but very soon I will be working with the handicapped.. I've always been one who feels a profound sadness in relation to these things, I think often of what the parents , family goes through... I will find this sort of work "challenging" for me.. we'll see how that goes.. 

I worked in a Nursing home once... fed this lady.. then she died right after.... I ended up quitting.. It was so depressing. I need to get over it.. but I was very young then.. so hopefully I have matured enough to just accept these realities.. and flow with it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

thefam said:


> I have matured LOADS since we married 11 years ago at age 20 (me) and 24. I also got in touch with my kinky side (husband was first everything).


 well that's my biggest regret that I wasn't KINKY back then.. but I feel the potential was always there ..within.. when I say my husband hasn't changed. I mean that.. he's NOT the kinky type.. just a love maker...but I NEED that.. had he been one of those highly sexual (positions everywhere, every which way) but he lacked the sensitive romantic stuff...that would bother me a great deal...I don't think we'd work.. to have all of that.. well.. can we say "Heaven!"



> However my basic desires and needs in marriage have not changed. Im still submissive by choice and desire a take-charge spouse. I can get b!tchy though which my H seems to accept the challenge.


 So much of this is inborn temperaments.. I am more the take charge out of the 2 of us. I couldn't be with a man I didn't respect.. I'd chew him up & spit him out.. but a good guy.. I'll treat him like a King.. I have grown to appreciate my husband more so over the years.. just looking back... 

But still I think the changes are Small... they were still a part of me... just needing refined...

Caught in too much busyness had my focus off...or I wasn't smelling the roses ENOUGH type thing. Maybe this is why some people mediate.. 




> My H is still the same with being able to convince and influence me in just about everything. But he truly is such a positive person who is committed to to our relationship and so appreciative of me as his wife (even during my b!tchy) times, that I am able to deal with that side of him. I yield to him as long as he has our best interest at heart. If i ever feel that has changed we would have some work to do.
> 
> One other thing that has not changed: my hubby still floats my boat as much as he did when i was an 18 year old lovestruck teen. More mellow and manageable but still there.


 Wonderful you are still so very much in love (and lust) with your man!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> @UMP..
> I guess our life would be very boring for most people.. I don't think we've had a lot of new & exciting experiences.. compared to the average Joe or Jane.. maybe this is part of it.. but we're ok with that.. the "simple life" has always been enough. ..If I hear that song on the radio.. "Simple Man"- that's my husband !


Simple is better. All that other crap is overrated. I have been all over the place and done all kinds of things. The simple life is a better life.
It took me much wasted time and money to find this out.

"Godliness with contentment is great gain."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

UMP said:


> Simple is better. All that other crap is overrated. I have been all over the place and done all kinds of things. The simple life is a better life.
> It took me much wasted time and money to find this out.
> 
> "Godliness with contentment is great gain."


What you said here reminded me of a movie we watched the other day (based on a true story)... staring Ryan Gosling.. he played Robert Durst in  All Good Things  ...



When they fell in love, he didn't want any part of his father's Business... they headed for Vermont with a dream... they opened up a health food store.. and had a beautiful couple years together.. they were happy, vibrant, in love.. .. Simple as it was... 

His Father stepped in...shaming him, convincing him his wife deserved better.. a rich lifestyle in a big city... so he moved back, became very wealthy & it all started to go to hell...she ended up a missing person...it was never solved, basically it seems he got away with murder..


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Regardless of whether the change was good or bad for a relationship, ALL people change. Whether it is good or bad depends on your perspective, who you are and where you are at in your own life.
Something else to consider is that often times the way we initially see that change often changes itself over time as we continue to evolve into who we are. Many divorced people look at the change that comes with divorce as the worst thing that ever happened to them. But as they evolve into their new self, they actually come to appreciate it as leading to a new and better life for them. 
As for myself. I have had had a number of life changing events take place which have formed me into who I am today. How they all play out in the end is yet to be discovered.
Most recently was obviously my divorce. I didn't want it or seek it. But it happened to me anyways and all I can do is move forward. I am discovering new things about myself all the time and exploring new opportunities that were no available before. Good or bad? Right now there is still some residual pain and anger, but that is being blotted out by new experiences so time will tell
Before that, I was forced to file bankruptcy. I was forced to reconcile my situation with my world view. I changed much of my thinking about politics as a result of this. I became much less judgemental and much more libertarian in my thinking as opposed to my old conservative views.
Prior to that I had another major event that caused a huge life change. I almost died from flesh eating bacteria. The doctor told my wife I would be dead in the morning. Obviously he was wrong. After that I decided I could no longer live the way I had been living. I dedicated myself to what was important. I left my corporate job and started my own business so that I could be the best dad to my kids that I could. 
I cannot change the past. But my past has changed me. Almost dying was the best thing that ever happened to me. I don't have full use of my right arm and there are many activities I cannot do any longer or at least not aw well. But it did allow me to be able to be deeply involved in the lives of my children. Much more so than my ex ever really was. I coached them, I carted them to practice, I attended every important event in their lives - plays, contests, games, ceremonies, performances etc. I would not change that for anything. 
My ex on the other hand never really accepted my decision. Instead she only saw that I wasn't bringing home a steady pay check despite the fact that I made more than I ever did working for others and my business funded home improvements, family vacations, the household and her life as well. In fact she blamed many of our issues on the fact that I didn't have a "real job".
I think who we are probably never really changes. It is a result of how we were brought up and what we have come to expect out of life. My mother died early in my life I never really knew what a healthy functional relationship was. My ex came from a completely disfunctional family full of divorce, a merry go round of "dads", drugs, abuse etc. I think our core may be formed early and that affects how future changes manifest themselves in our life.
Some people are lucky enough to have grown up in stable healthy envvironments and some of us not.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I would say that I am the same person that I aways have been and always will be. WHAT DOES CHANGE is my perception, understanding, and reaction to any given scenario over time because I never stop learning. 

If I find myself watching a very old movie that I loved when I was a kid, but it might have been over 20 years since I had last seen it. When I watch it again it comes across as a completely different movie with a completely different meaning. An interesting example would be the movie "Big" with Tom Hanks. That was a fun movie to watch as a kid and learn about the responsibilities that adults have. As an adult it reminds me of the innocence and creativity that most of us loose touch with as an adult.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What an insightful post @Ynot ... Thank you for sharing...you've really been through a lot.. a second chance at life even... how frightening that must have been!! 

We hear many stories where "almost dying" suddenly puts everything into perspective...like this song.. Live Like You Were Dying (Official Music Video)- Tim McGraw 

I think this is one of the reasons I enjoy Inspirational movies so much.. I don't want to experience these awful things some people go through though -none of us would!... .. I am very much "risk adverse".. so is my husband in this way.. but still.. sh** happens to all of us at some point....it can't be avoided either.. then we die... I think of this bumper sticker.... 



The experience of not being able to conceive, was the hardest on me (while married)...certainly not life threatening.. but dream crushing at the time, I just wanted a family of my own.. I was an only child.. I didn't have the best of upbringings...

But also I can look back & see some purpose in it... I feel it's helped me be *more appreciative* of our children...sure I have "Mean Mom" days... but immediately I will usher myself back to that time..and say to myself.. "I am blessed...so happy to wipe this pee off the toilet seat for the 2nd time today, someday I will miss this !.. shut up WOMAN.. [email protected]#"...

Also to be more empathetic to those who struggle to realize a dream.. could be anything..

I really can't think of that many things I changed in.. I did slowly loose my religion .. but I was always a questioner anyway... reading about philosophy, trying to debate the Pastor, presenting the difficult questions.. it's more like I just resigned to what I am.. and accepted myself ....without beating myself up anymore.. feeling if there is a God.. he made me this way.. 

I remember loving animals a lot growing up.. I had bunnies, parakeets after I met my husband even... but once we had kids..I think they took that place..

I remember going shopping a lot when we were dating.. today I hate to shop...seems such a waste of time - give me Ebay & Amazon.com thank you!.... I think this was because when living at home..I was never taken shopping...so when we started going, it was exciting to me (I was still very careful with $$ though)...

And Mid Life brought with it a renewed focus on US







....where it seems many leave their marriages around this time .... 

I feel we revived ours, more passion, time spent just the 2 of us, not so kid focused... beings my dream was







... I was very kid focused.... 

Suddenly I wanted to just ditch the kids & us run off together.. I guess these are symptoms of a Mid Life crisis.. where you just want to be YOUNG again... it didn't hurt us though.... it's always been Good (that "love bank" was full)... it just became Better.....

This has given me a lot of reflection...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Ynot said:


> *I cannot change the past. But my past has changed me*. *Almost dying was the best thing that ever happened to me.* I don't have full use of my right arm and there are many activities I cannot do any longer or at least not aw well. But it did allow me to be able to be deeply involved in the lives of my children. Much more so than my ex ever really was. I coached them, I carted them to practice, I attended every important event in their lives - plays, contests, games, ceremonies, performances etc. I would not change that for anything.
> 
> My ex on the other hand never really accepted my decision. Instead she only saw that I wasn't bringing home a steady pay check despite the fact that I made more than I ever did working for others and my business funded home improvements, family vacations, the household and her life as well. In fact she blamed many of our issues on the fact that I didn't have a "real job".


 this last part doesn't make a whole lot of sense ....you said you EARNED MORE and was HOME MORE, there for the children, being involved.....the bottom line sounds so much better... I would understand her concern if the bills were piling up.... though you did mention bankruptcy ......wondering if you didn't have health insurance or it reached it's limits when you got the fresh eating bacteria.. this putting you way in the red...just kinda guessing here .. Financial hardships are very difficult on marriages.. Always heard it said the 3 top killers are ... Communication issues, Sex and Money... 



> *I think who we are probably never really changes. It is a result of how we were brought up and what we have come to expect out of life.*


 I am big on thinking what we've experienced in our early years has a profound effect on us, shapes our hopes & dreams.. also our turn offs...what we want to avoid in life.. feeling











> My mother died early in my life I never really knew what a healthy functional relationship was. My ex came from a completely disfunctional family full of divorce, a merry go round of "dads", drugs, abuse etc. I think our core may be formed early and that affects how future changes manifest themselves in our life.
> Some people are lucky enough to have grown up in stable healthy envvironments and some of us not.


 I watched my mother make a lot of bad choices when I was around 9 or 10...then she lost everything...her job, our little house she was going to buy, she had a nervous breakdown... I just knew I didn't want my life to turn out like hers... I was taken off of her around age 10 by my Father...

Most of my mentors were outside of my home life, thankfully I had some great examples of what a healthy family is supposed to look like...I hung on to those.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

For me I think that it's easier to find forgiveness for others now. We're all human and oftentimes that isn't too pretty.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

badsanta said:


> I would say that I am the same person that I aways have been and always will be. WHAT DOES CHANGE is my perception, understanding, and reaction to any given scenario over time because I never stop learning.


 There is an important point ..a continued "learning".... even being on this forum is about Learning / different perspectives.... even if it also makes us a Forum junkie..



> If I find myself watching a very old movie that I loved when I was a kid, but it might have been over 20 years since I had last seen it. When I watch it again it comes across as a completely different movie with a completely different meaning. An interesting example would be the movie "Big" with Tom Hanks. That was a fun movie to watch as a kid and learn about the responsibilities that adults have. As an adult it reminds me of the innocence and creativity that most of us loose touch with as an adult.


 I don't think I've ever seen "Big"..

My Mom took me to see the Exorcist when I was 9 ...can you imagine ! Not sure what she was thinking!...that will forever be the scariest movie I've ever seen in my life... I could hardly get through "*Old Yeller*" ..I still doubt I could watch this movie to the end.. looking at these movie clips.. that's our dog!

I remember her taking me to see ROCKY  3 times at a drive in theater.. later in life she tells me she was contemplating suicide.. and that movie, the fighting spirit of Rocky Balboa, helped her get through that time..


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

TBT said:


> *For me I think that it's easier to find forgiveness for others now. We're all human and oftentimes that isn't too pretty.*


Well there is a helpful change right !

When I struggle to forgive... I have found reading a book on this subject very helpful... I especially appreciate Lewis Smedes writings on it...  Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve 










I find rejection especially painful.. having to "let go" .. If I really cared... I want to blacken every memory of someone who was in my life, but we can't do that.. so we have to deal with it.. make peace with it somehow... I've always found that a struggle.. 

Littler things (outside of Betrayal) haven't been too much of an issue for me.. so long as we're still talking...this sure helps.. 

I have found I feel more bitterness towards those who have hurt my children over those who have hurt me.. I guess that is a "Motherly thing" !


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The most obvious changes are those caused by trauma. The more severe the trauma, the greater the change. For example, look at soldiers returning from battle. They left as one person and come back as another. Good or bad, change does happen.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think rejection is painful for all of us, SA. But it is actually often a dodged bullet, I think. The important thing is to be as true to ourselves as possible, and to trust that that will lead us to the right place for us.

I don't think our core changes. I do think we can become more understanding and compassionate if we have a wide enough range of experiences, especially heartbreak, while also getting the support we need to not just fall into despair.

In many ways I will always be a child in my marriage, as detestable as some other people seem to find that. But it does not bother Dug at all. He sees me as fresh and uncomplicated, and basically easy to deal with. I suit him.

For my part, being married to someone who is not sensitive, or with very many needs, my energy is freed up to do what I want or need to do, and to give to the kids. I don't think I could be married to a man who needed me to emotionally support him. I think I would be a continual disappointment to a man like that. And if the man were strict or repressive, I would leave right away.

I am following another discussion, and am amazed at how long some folks hang on despite all kinds of disharmony in the relationship. And even though they say it is now much better, it still looks on tenterhooks to me. 

My gosh, if I had to work that hard, I would have left long ago. And I cannot imagine any man staying with me if he were not completely delighted with me from the get go. 

I just do not understand working so hard at something that, at least from the outside, just does not look meant to be. Especially when with a different person, someone they were naturally compatible with, life could be so much easier.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> The most obvious changes are those caused by trauma.* The more severe the trauma, the greater the change. For example, look at soldiers returning from battle. They left as one person and come back as another. *Good or bad, change does happen.


I have no desire for our sons to to go into the army -this is just one more reason.. if that's what they wanted, we can't stop them...ultimately it's their choice, but I would try to persuade them elsewhere. In comparison, which I definitely complain about, we'd welcome the college debt any day.. 

I even hate to admit this outright... as it's a very honorable thing to do, I tear up pretty much every time I hear a song about our soldiers.... God Bless those who go!! I was reading some of these stories not long ago.. so tragic... 

PTSD and Me: True Stories From Military Veterans ... It's the greatest sacrifice.. 

Veterans PTSD Statistics | Statistics: Depression, TBI and Suicide ....

TBI =traumatic brain injury, estimated as high as 19% of veterans.. 20% plus have Post traumatic Stress Disorder and/ or depression ...50% of those won't seek treatment.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> this last part doesn't make a whole lot of sense ....you said you EARNED MORE and was HOME MORE, there for the children, being involved.....the bottom line sounds so much better... I would understand her concern if the bills were piling up.... though you did mention bankruptcy ......wondering if you didn't have health insurance or it reached it's limits when you got the fresh eating bacteria.. this putting you way in the red...just kinda guessing here .. Financial hardships are very difficult on marriages.. Always heard it said the 3 top killers are ... Communication issues, Sex and Money...
> .


I am a real estate appraiser. I went from doing 20-25 appraisals a month to doing 1-2 for an extended period of time. So my cash flow dried up. Then my receivables took a hit as several clients who owed me thousands of dollars filed bankruptcy themselves. 
I had a few lines of credit that I attempted to stay afloat with until things picked up. Then they came along and jacked up my rates and shortened the terms all the while reducing my limit to what I owed (and further reducing it with every payment. So $25 or $50 monthly payments became $100 monthly payments. Then if I was late, a $50 late charge, which also put me over the limit resulting in another $50 over limit charge. So now the payments were $200/month plus whatever additional interest then due. 
I blew thru my savings trying to keep up. Then I liquidated my stocks trying to keep up. 
Selling the house wasn't an option as we then owed more than it was worth. 
I begged and pleaded with the banks for time. I called them, I offered to make good faith payments in return for a forebearance. I offered to make interest only payments. All I ever got was threats and demands for the full balance due. They couldn't care any less. They told me to sell blood, they told me to have a garage sale. 

Yes I suppose I could have just taken some job to make a little money, but remember I am in real estate, all of my experience is in real estate, so the best I could hope for was $10/hour? Barely enough to put food on the table and still not enough to touch the bills. I was better off to spend the 40-50 hours I would have spent making $10/hour on trying to rebuild my business, which I did in the end. 
Until you have been there, don't criticize someone who has. Filing bankruptcy was the hardest thing I ever did, and I did it for HER and my family.
The bills hadn't been piling up, WE just spent the money almost as fast as it came, like 95% of all Americans. I was saving and investing but there wasn't enough there when we really needed it. After WE got to this point, SHE decided it was now MY problem and left ME hanging. As I said until you have been there, don't criticize someone who has! My ex sided with the banks over her family. If you feel the same way too bad for you. Most people are just one paycheck from filing themselves.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Well, I wasn't talking about traumatic brain injury caused by the concussion of an explosion. Some soldiers only need to experience the trauma of watching their buddy get blown apart or suffer from a devastating wound. Some have experienced torture and are changed. It's not always physical injury that is obvious to the naked eye that causes a person to change. Not everyone has enough life experience to understand.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I hope you don't think I am criticizing you @Ynot .... I wasn't.. I always feel terribly bad for those who find themselves in a health crisis, especially without health insurance.. (My husband stayed at a lousy paying Job for 18 yrs due to it's health plan)...I just assumed it was this, due to what happened to you...

I remember going to a Yard sale many years ago.. this family was selling everything...they spoke how they were going to lose their house because his wife had cancer & the insurance ran out. The injustice of having that fall upon someone is outrageous to me!!

We are a lower income family, considering our family size.... I surely understand those who struggle with making ends meat.. many of our friends have been there.. 

I can see in your story how , when getting behind at a bank.. how those fees can eat you alive!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I hope you don't think I am criticizing you @Ynot .... I wasn't.. I always feel terribly bad for those who find themselves in a health crisis, especially without health insurance.. (My husband stayed at a lousy paying Job for 18 yrs due to it's health plan)...I just assumed it was this, due to what happened to you...
> 
> I remember going to a Yard sale many years ago.. this family was selling everything...they spoke how they were going to lose their house because his wife had cancer & the insurance ran out. The injustice of having that fall upon someone is outrageous to me!!
> 
> ...


It creates a death spiral in which the odds are stacked against you.
Luckily for us, we had health insurance when I got sick. That happened years before the mortgage meltdown.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ynot said:


> It creates a death spiral in which the odds are stacked against you.
> Luckily for us, we had health insurance when I got sick. That happened years before the mortgage meltdown.


This type of thing also changes someone. Whether it is fundamental change as is being discussed here or not, I'm not sure. I don't know for sure what she has in mind. I'm guessing. I'd say there is some fundamental change from all of that stress.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> This type of thing also changes someone. Whether it is fundamental change as is being discussed here or not, I'm not sure. I don't know for sure what she has in mind. I'm guessing. I'd say there is some fundamental change from all of that stress.


What stress? Hers? She didn't have any stress. In her world, the lights came on, the house was warm, there was food on the table, the kids all enjoyed their activities. I was one that was stressed. She didn't want to know about it. I was just to do what I needed to do.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

jld said:


> I think rejection is painful for all of us, SA. But it is actually often a dodged bullet, I think. The important thing is to be as true to ourselves as possible, and to trust that that will lead us to the right place for us.
> 
> I don't think our core changes. I do think we can become more understanding and compassionate if we have a wide enough range of experiences, especially heartbreak, while also getting the support we need to not just fall into despair.
> 
> ...


You make it sound like we do not have to work on our relationship. We both work hard at it. 

I think the reason it seems easy is because our core values are the same. We value hard work. We do not care how someone looks. We both love children. We agree on finances. Etc...

I believe this is what makes our marriage a success. We have a lot in common which makes working on our differences not so overwhelming.

Lastly, I agree that our core does not change. But our life changes. Priorities shift. It is important to stay connected during those changes.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I think rejection is painful for all of us, SA. But it is actually often a dodged bullet, I think.


 It's true in a romantic relationship, but what if it's one's own parents.. those who brought us into the world.. what if you were bullied in school cause you were different.. these younger experiences are very harsh.. If one has a loving home to come home to every day, they'll probably weather these rejections better, having a soft place to fall.. or at least having friends in their lives to lean on.. 



> I don't think our core changes. I do think we can become more understanding and compassionate if we have a wide enough range of experiences, especially heartbreak, while also getting the support we need to not just fall into despair.


 I hope it doesn't mean because I haven't felt those depths myself, I'm not as understanding...

I think I felt it through our sons.. with their 1st love breakups ... I cried with 2nd son- twice.... I sat with them both, they shared some raw emotions with me... I wanted so badly to take away their pain.. help them see what they were feeling was so NORMAL, this period of grief can be excruciating, that TIME ...really ...ONLY TIME can bring some healing...even if they can't see it ... i don't feel I've ever felt such a burden to "support" as I did -during that. 



> In many ways I will always be a child in my marriage, as detestable as some other people seem to find that. But it does not bother Dug at all. He sees me as fresh and uncomplicated, and basically easy to deal with. I suit him.


 it is surely a different dynamic Jld! Dug is the perfect man for you!! Even if these things are the case..you 2 sure put out some intelligent genes in those kids you have! I know I keep saying this... I think we have the sensitive flock over here... you have the intelligent ones!



> For my part, being married to someone who is not sensitive, or with very many needs, my energy is freed up to do what I want or need to do, and to give to the kids. I don't think I could be married to a man who needed me to emotionally support him. I think I would be a continual disappointment to a man like that. And if the man were strict or repressive, I would leave right away.


 I don't think anyone would want Strict & repressive.. But yeah.. some of us just don't mind supporting our men. 



> I am following another discussion, and am amazed at how long some folks hang on despite all kinds of disharmony in the relationship. And even though they say it is now much better, it still looks on tenterhooks to me.


 I wouldn't have the patience to put up with as much as others do.. I'd loose my cool..and look out.. I am capable of "steam rolling"...the man would pretty much want rid of me too!.. so It's good I married a patient understanding guy myself.. our opposite tendencies seem to attract.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> You make it sound like we do not have to work on our relationship. We both work hard at it.
> 
> I think the reason it seems easy is because our core values are the same. We value hard work. We do not care how someone looks. We both love children. We agree on finances. Etc...
> 
> ...


How do you think we work hard on it? It feels pretty effortless to me. 

There is no way I would do the kind of slogging it through that some are doing, Dug, and you know it. I will do a certain amount, and then I quit. 

I remember reading once that if something is not easy for you, it is wrong for you. Your hand should turn to it naturally.

I think if that advice were heeded in relationships, people would make easier pairings.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

jld said:


> How do you think we work hard on it? It feels pretty effortless to me.
> 
> There is no way I would do the kind of slogging it through that some are doing, Dug, and you know it. I will do a certain amount, and then I quit.
> 
> ...


Let's define work. You would define doing the dishes or the laundry as something you do, not as work. I am not sure others would define it like that.

You do work on the relationship. After all, you have to put up with my insensitivity, with my procrastination, etc... You may be used to it and cope with it, but it does not mean you fully accept it and that you are not after me about it.

The work may seem easy because we are both committed to the relationship. It is like a job you love, it is not work anymore.

With commitment, similar values and aligned priorities, it is effortless.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ynot said:


> What stress? Hers? She didn't have any stress. In her world, the lights came on, the house was warm, there was food on the table, the kids all enjoyed their activities. I was one that was stressed. She didn't want to know about it. I was just to do what I needed to do.


No. Sorry. I wasn't clear when I used the word, "she". I meant the thread starter, @SimplyAmorous. I meant I didn't know for sure what she was thinking when she typed, "REALLY CHANGE". 

I also meant that all that stress likely changed you to some extent. Though, I can't be sure of that, either. What say you?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Duguesclin said:


> Let's define work. You would define doing the dishes or the laundry as something you do, not as work. I am not sure others would define it like that.
> 
> *You do work on the relationship. After all, you have to put up with my insensitivity, with my procrastination, etc...* You may be used to it and cope with it, but it does not mean you fully accept it and that you are not after me about it.
> 
> ...


Can you explain how this is working on the relationship? My thoughts are that, if I want to work on the relationship, I will work on myself. 

Though, unless there is communication about what is bothering the spouses, there may not be a perceived need for growth. 

Communication is good. Coping is not working on the relationship. It is burying emotion and issues that are troublesome. 

Not sure I understand.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> No. Sorry. I wasn't clear when I used the word, "she". I meant the thread starter, @SimplyAmorous. I meant I didn't know for sure what she was thinking when she typed, "REALLY CHANGE".


 to answer that..it could be what anyone wants it to mean.. they can speak of their own changes, whether in small ways or life altering ways.. this can vary from person to person...


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> No. Sorry. I wasn't clear when I used the word, "she". I meant the thread starter, @SimplyAmorous. I meant I didn't know for sure what she was thinking when she typed, "REALLY CHANGE".
> 
> I also meant that all that stress likely changed you to some extent. Though, I can't be sure of that, either. What say you?


It absolutely changed me. As I said in my original post I became less judgemental and more libertarian in my thinking. I used to be a pretty ardent conservative along the lines of unbelievable. Then I realized that all the fairy tales I had been sold about their program being better for me, was just that - a fairy tale. I realized that they/it was just a tool for our corporate overlords. Yep, I am a contrarian, I don't believe in the new American Dream of working like a dog for someone else, when they tell you to work, for as long as they tell you to work, all with the promise of tomorrow. In the face of conservative whining about human secularism being a new religion, they are not even aware that their new religion is simple greed - profit for profits sake without regard to their fellow man.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Can you explain how this is working on the relationship? My thoughts are that, if I want to work on the relationship, I will work on myself.
> 
> Though, unless there is communication about what is bothering the spouses, there may not be a perceived need for growth.
> 
> ...


I do not think JLD is just coping with it. She works at it by being patient, helping to point out the issues, suggesting ways to deal with it. I work at it by making a conscious effort to improve, and showing changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Ynot said:


> It absolutely changed me. As I said in my original post I became less judgemental and more libertarian in my thinking. I used to be a pretty ardent conservative along the lines of unbelievable. Then I realized that all the fairy tales I had been sold about their program being better for me, was just that - a fairy tale. I realized that they/it was just a tool for our corporate overlords. Yep, I am a contrarian, I don't believe in the new American Dream of working like a dog for someone else, when they tell you to work, for as long as they tell you to work, all with the promise of tomorrow. In the face of conservative whining about human secularism being a new religion, they are not even aware that their new religion is simple greed - profit for profits sake without regard to their fellow man.


I have my own thoughts on this..I've often referred to myself as a more "Conservative" poster ...but this depends on the issue at hand.. that term can be loaded & people conjure up different ideas when it's spoken...

I very much agree with you (& so would my husband, it's one area he will argue with others!) on the Corporate GREED of many in this country.. people seem to worship Success, and bow to the Rich irregardless of character.... that just never sit well with me. 

Some things never change.. though we have to be conservative in our own spending, this is "self preservation" for our family...just trying to make it, being as responsible as possible in a high priced world.. when we don't have degrees & 6 figure paying jobs...we also live in a very depressed area of the country....it is what it is.. 

Life is still good.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Duguesclin said:


> I do not think JLD is just coping with it. She works at it by being patient, helping to point out the issues, suggesting ways to deal with it. I work at it by making a conscious effort to improve, and showing changes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess all you can do is work on yourself and hope for the best outcome. Good luck.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> The work may seem easy because we are both committed to the relationship. It is like a job you love, it is not work anymore.
> 
> With commitment, similar values and aligned priorities, it is effortless.


Dug, I think our marriage works because we basically accept each other as we are. Improvements might be nice, but we are okay "as is."

And that's good, because I am not sure people fundamentally change. They might mellow out, but I think the core remains pretty much the same.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> Dug, I think our marriage works because we basically accept each other as we are. Improvements might be nice, but we are okay "as is."
> 
> *And that's good, because I am not sure people fundamentally change. They might mellow out, but I think the core remains pretty much the same.*


In reality.. this is kinda my question.. RIGHT HERE.. how many really believe this...that we don't fundamentally change - except maybe from very traumatic experiences that could turn one's life upside down (hopefully most of us haven't experienced those)..

The "as is" thing is like a line in the sand too... at least to the point it won't cause resentment when we offer our wants/ needs to the other, if you know what I mean.. 

Like when I met my husband.. and I know it sounds bad.. but I wanted him to grow his hair longer, wear some levi's.... is that awful ?.. he didn't care !! I also told him I wouldn't be with a smoker, he gave it up....He was down with it... now if he felt I was trying to re-haul his whole personality ...he should have dumped me! I was very open with what turns me on & what I wanted. 

There was a time he wanted me to Spice my clothes up too, but he was less verbal about it, might have thrown a hint or 2.. that blew right over me.... I used to wear these "little house on the Prairie" nightgowns to bed.... like







...so really he should have just came out with it... that wouldn't have offended me.. 

But outside these silly examples I just gave...it's just THAT important to accept each other, warts, some cluelessness along the way...

We still have our spats now & then...but at the end of the day.. it's like the words of this song.. Hey @jld.. this is the one I was talking about...

>  The Seekers - I'II Never Find Another You


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> In reality.. this is kinda my question.. RIGHT HERE.. how many really believe this...that we don't fundamentally change - except maybe from very traumatic experiences that could turn one's life upside down (hopefully most of us haven't experienced those)..
> 
> The "as is" thing is like a line in the sand too... at least to the point it won't cause resentment when we offer our wants/ needs to the other, if you know what I mean..
> 
> ...


Hey, I am wearing one of those flannel nightgowns around the house right now--at one in the afternoon.  Warm and comfortable!

Mr SA is lucky to be with you and he knows it.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I see these comments everywhere.. consistently.. how people CHANGE.. everyone changes... add: If you haven't changed.. something must be wrong with you.. even though we outright admit that THESE VERY CHANGES are what often hurts our relationships, marriages .
> 
> So HOW have you changed, how has your spouse changed... whether in good ways, or bad that has hurt your marriage.. or enhanced it?
> 
> ...


I'm sure I have matured and have learned a lot of things in life's experiences. As for personality and the way I feel on the inside, I don't think I've changed that much. I've been blessed with good health and no devastating life-circumstances(unless you count a divorce), so, in some ways, I still feel like I did when I was 20.

I still like the same things. I still like the same music, I'm still laid-back. I never had any bad habits that I had to change. I don't feel like my core has changed that much, but i guess it depends on what one is talking about.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I've changed for the worse. It's the trauma I went through. So, I work on it. I'm still here because I found some comfort in the folks here, though that would seem weird. Maybe misery does love company?

Anway, I think you are asking if people change from being an introvert to and extrovert? I don't really think that can happen, though I think we have inner strength we draw on when we have to and can be extroverted, if not completely comfortable all the time with it, when we need to. I don't think that's what you mean by changing. It's more of a temporary thing, than a permanent change. 

I think we don't know folks until we have lived with them. I think, even then we can't be sure. Only time and consistent careful observation could give us an idea of a person. 

So, unless there is something traumatic in a person's life, I don't think they change their core, though they may change their behavior. It all depends on how much they want to change their behavior through education and understanding, consistent work and effort. So, yeah, actions, but not so much core. 

We think differently because our brains work differently. Some have been damaged in unique ways. The chemicals our bodies produce and the amounts, the oxygen we convert, the connections made, are all unique to each of us. 

There is no one else like you, me, or anyone here. There can't be, even if we were clones, because our unique life experiences can't be duplicated. Each of us is unique in reference to biology, space and time. 


I really like that song. The bold is most true for me. It's how I do honestly feel and always did. 

Lyrics:
There's a new world somewhere
They call The Promised Land
And I'll be there some day
If you will hold my hand
I still need you there beside me
No matter what I do
For I know I'll never find another you

There is always someone
For each of us they say
And you'll be my someone
For ever and a day
I could search the whole world over
Until my life is through
But I know I'll never find another you

It's a long, long journey
So stay by my side
When I walk through the storm
You'll be my guide, be my guide

*If they gave me a fortune
My treasure would be small
I could lose it all tomorrow
And never mind at all
But if I should lose your love, dear
I don't know what I'll do
For I know I'll never find another you*


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What you said here reminded me of a movie we watched the other day (based on a true story)... staring Ryan Gosling.. he played Robert Durst in  All Good Things  ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SA

Did you not see the new last year about Robert Durst? His arrogance finally bit him in the butt. There is a fantastic documentary that he took part in called "The Jinx" I highly recommend it. He was arrested shortly after the last episode of the documentary aired.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kristin2349 said:


> SA
> 
> *Did you not see the new last year about Robert Durst? His arrogance finally bit him in the butt. There is a fantastic documentary that he took part in called "The Jinx" I highly recommend it. He was arrested shortly after the last episode of the documentary aired.*


Actually when we watched the movie.. they used the name "David Marks".. I knew it was based on a true story but I had no idea what family they were talking about .. after the movie.. I looked it up....

and realized.. "OH THAT GUY!"...I've seen him in the news but I never knew what all the hoopla was about, some mega rich dude who got away with murder, I didn't know the details...I haven't seen any documentaries on him... so thank you.. '

Glad they got him!


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Actually when we watched the movie.. they used the name "David Marks".. I knew it was based on a true story but I had no idea what family they were talking about .. after the movie.. I looked it up....
> 
> and realized.. "OH THAT GUY!"...I've seen him in the news but I never knew what all the hoopla was about, some mega rich dude who got away with murder, I didn't know the details...I haven't seen any documentaries on him... so thank you.. '
> 
> Glad they got him!




I don't want to derail your thread but you should watch the documentary. When Robert Durst saw the movie "All Good Things" that you mentioned he contacted the film maker Andrew Jareki and consented to an interview. It ended up a documentary "The Jinx" that had probably one of the most jaw dropping endings of all time. I highly recommend it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kristin2349 said:


> I don't want to derail your thread but you should watch the documentary. When Robert Durst saw the movie "All Good Things" that you mentioned he contacted the film maker Andrew Jareki and consented to an interview. It ended up a documentary "The Jinx" that had probably one of the most jaw dropping endings of all time. I highly recommend it.


I'll have to look that up.. I don't get netflix anymore.. just what they offer streaming.. might be something on You tube....nice .. not giving that ending away!


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## pineapple (Apr 9, 2016)

I've changed so much that I don't even know who I am anymore, so not in a good way. Living with a PA husband will do that to a person. I just wished I had realized what was going on long before I did.


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## Jeffyboy (Apr 7, 2015)

I've changed a lot over the past 10 years. What I once believed, I believe no longer. It's crazy. The moment you think you get it right...10 years later it changes. Who knows if it will change again in 10 years. That's the crazy roller coaster we call life.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I don't think people's base personalities change. I don't think you can go from being a complete a$$hole to being a nice person that everyone likes. I think you can gain some understanding based on your experiences, and maybe you can be not so much of an a$$hole as you used to be. But that tendency is still there.

I've seen having children change some people to a certain extent. A couple Type A people I've known for a very long time, and I remember how they were before having their kids - they were wound up tight as a drum, and would fly off the handle about every little thing that went wrong. They've since learned they have to let go of the little things, and prioritize and compartmentalize, or they'll go right off the deep end worrying about *everything*. I know because I was one of these people.

But is that really a change to our base personalities? I'm still pretty tightly wound. But I've learned to cope with the stress and worry that comes with having a child by working around that limitation. I don't think an old high school or college friend, getting to know me again after all these years, would say, "Wow. You've really changed from the way I remember you."


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I have something better than inner peace; the death of hope.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I see these comments everywhere.. consistently.. how people CHANGE.. everyone changes... add: If you haven't changed.. something must be wrong with you.. even though we outright admit that THESE VERY CHANGES are what often hurts our relationships, marriages .
> 
> So HOW have you changed, how has your spouse changed... whether in good ways, or bad that has hurt your marriage.. or enhanced it?


I don't view these things as black and white, good and bad. Although I may use the word change, I think our perceptions, experiences, understanding, reasoning etc. influences behavior and thoughts and it's what we do with that. We learn different ways of navigating life as we go along. Although I think we usually have a default self that we revert back to.

There's also something to be said for acceptance, of how we approach things, knowing our own limitations, and getting right with ourselves. Just as it can also be exciting to discover unknown aspects of self, even go through the 'growing-pains' of life, to grow and learn, connect.

I attempted to answer how we have 'changed' but find it too big a question. And perhaps it's a paradox because it also loops back to that we fundamentally have not changed. My motto is simply 'Keep on hustling!'


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