# Discovered he's into swinging and sex clubs



## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F. We met on OLD, my first date after a 20yr marriage ended in divorce 2 yrs ago. He looked different in his pics (bearded, long hair, clean shaven on his OLD profile) but blamed it on Covid. The physical attraction wasn't there at all (though he's in excellent shape), but the more time we spent together, we connected deeply and he's a really fun, caring, considerate and gentle guy. He's a dynamite in the sack, too. 

Coming out of a physically abusive marriage that ended with restraining orders, this relationship was a breath of fresh air. I've never felt so loved, cherished, respected, supported and accepted my entire life. His 2 kids are in their early thirties, my 2 are in their late teens. He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. He's never met my kids, but has been asking to meet them from the beginning. He's been begging me to meet his kids.

Problems?

1. He lives with a roommate in a very beautiful but extremely filthy apartment. He's gainfully employed with a six figure salary but is stuck with high alimony payments to his ex wife. I'm very organized financially, great career, have my own clean and tidy condo. His seemingly financial instability and untidiness bothers me.

2. He recently revealed that he cheated on his ex wife for the entire marriage...they "weren't compatible" and "he married her because he got her pregnant". I am disgusted because my ex husband was a serial cheater. He says he has changed and would never cheat on a partner again.

3. He recently revealed he's into the swinging lifestyle and has visited sex clubs and had orgies with strangers. I'm into monogamy and vanilla sex, so this isn't my thing at all.

Right now he's sensed I'm pulling back and I'm wondering what to do. I cannot flake forever. Thoughts anyone?

Can men "go back sexually", to quote Chris Rock?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

So you're not compatible, which means you would do well to throw that one back into the water.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s not for you. Move on.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Wow… I think you must have better prospects than this guy.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Move on would be the best course of action


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

You're at the bottom of the barrel right now. The good news is there is nowhere to go but up. Don't walk away.........RUN!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This was one of those, "Wow, that was fun!"..... now it isn't.

You just came out of a divorce.
You were a dating rookie (again) at 40 years old.

That said, thank your stars that he did not give you some nasty STD.

If you stay with him, he will try to rope you into something unsavory.

Enjoy the good memories....only.

Tell him, no thanks, goodbye.



_Lilith-_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Throw this one back in the sea. You got out of a marriage due to adultery, why hook up with a guy who did that to the mother of his kids fir the duration of their marriage? Besides, weren’t your spidey sense tingling when you have a guy wanting to move in together so quickly and pushing to meet your kids. Being new to the dating game after being emotionally abused by your serial cheating husband, it’s easy to fall for a guy putting in the charm. 

Before you go out there, you should set your standards and deal breakers. Avoiding a former adulterer should be high on your list. Giving your heart to a guy who will probably want to bring you into that lifestyle is a mistake; unless you’re wanting to be with a guy whose ok with sharing you.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So he was a bit of fun out of a bad marriage. 

He also isn't the guy for you. You aren't compatible. 

He also is a liar. He has hidden things from you. It should take this long to 'find' some of these things out. He's just stringing you along so that you'll get invested and let things that are actually deal breakers slide.

So if you were looking for a match without 'being' invested would this be anything even close to what you were looking for...? The cheating and the singing are both things you 'can't live with' unless you are ok with them. It isn't something like shaving or not shaving.

Please let this one go and go find another.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This isn't really about "going back sexually," It's about him simply not being the right one for you. 

Dating is basically an interview and tryout period for people to do things together and spend time together to get to know each other to see if they are a right match or not. 

You've gotten to know him and have found some things that don't sit well with you. And that's ok. You'll probably date a number of people before you find one that fits.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I also want to add that there is nothing wrong with just getting out of the house, meeting people and having a fun night out on the town getting to know people and doing fun things casually for awhile. There is no need to jump back into any kind of commitment or marriage etc immediately. 

You're going to run into a number of whackadoodles on this journey. When you note someone isn't right for you, No harm no foul, just tell them it was nice getting out and getting to know them but you aren't a match, and then wish them well. Move along, nothing to see here. 

Don't be afraid of being single. Don't be afraid to get out and date casually for no other reason than to get out of the house and have some fun. And don't be afraid to realize that someone isn't a match and to move on.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F. We met on OLD, my first date after a 20yr marriage ended in divorce 2 yrs ago. He looked different in his pics (bearded, long hair, clean shaven on his OLD profile) but blamed it on Covid. The physical attraction wasn't there at all (though he's in excellent shape), but the more time we spent together, we connected deeply and he's a really fun, caring, considerate and gentle guy. He's a dynamite in the sack, too.
> 
> Coming out of a physically abusive marriage that ended with restraining orders, this relationship was a breath of fresh air. I've never felt so loved, cherished, respected, supported and accepted my entire life. His 2 kids are in their early thirties, my 2 are in their late teens. He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. He's never met my kids, but has been asking to meet them from the beginning. He's been begging me to meet his kids.
> 
> ...


Well, what you don't do is fall for him or make any kind of commitment to him because he has already flat out told you he's not doing that. He's only going to keep you around if you'll participate in his swinging and swapping. 

If you want to just have a good time with him and you can do it without getting emotional about it, then have a good time with him but I don't think you're going to be able to do that. You don't need to be in another bad relationship.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Go back and read your post and tell me you're confused on what to do. 

This is NOT about who he is. He is who he is. It's about who you are and you obviously are doubting yourself. 

Take fear out of the situation and you'll know what to do.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F. We met on OLD, my first date after a 20yr marriage ended in divorce 2 yrs ago. He looked different in his pics (bearded, long hair, clean shaven on his OLD profile) but blamed it on Covid. The physical attraction wasn't there at all (though he's in excellent shape), but the more time we spent together, we connected deeply and he's a really fun, caring, considerate and gentle guy. He's a dynamite in the sack, too.
> 
> Coming out of a physically abusive marriage that ended with restraining orders, this relationship was a breath of fresh air. I've never felt so loved, cherished, respected, supported and accepted my entire life. His 2 kids are in their early thirties, my 2 are in their late teens. He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. He's never met my kids, but has been asking to meet them from the beginning. He's been begging me to meet his kids.
> 
> ...


This one is hard. While people can change, that's a lot of red flags, and if you're not comfortable with the sloppiness (which you'll be cleaning up), and the sex clubs and orgies (those are urges that I imagine would be hard for him to turn off or repress) and the cheating for the entire marriage? That just sounds fishy. Sounds like he is telling you what you want to hear to keep you around. I'm going to say go with your gut on this one.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F. We met on OLD, my first date after a 20yr marriage ended in divorce 2 yrs ago. He looked different in his pics (bearded, long hair, clean shaven on his OLD profile) but blamed it on Covid. The physical attraction wasn't there at all (though he's in excellent shape), but the more time we spent together, we connected deeply and he's a really fun, caring, considerate and gentle guy. He's a dynamite in the sack, too.
> 
> Coming out of a physically abusive marriage that ended with restraining orders, this relationship was a breath of fresh air. I've never felt so loved, cherished, respected, supported and accepted my entire life. His 2 kids are in their early thirties, my 2 are in their late teens. He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. He's never met my kids, but has been asking to meet them from the beginning. He's been begging me to meet his kids.
> 
> ...


Yeah, dud. Return to sender. Next.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

Enjoy the fun then move on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Right now he's sensed I'm pulling back and I'm wondering what to do. I cannot flake forever. Thoughts anyone?


Why are you faking it? He's told you what you have to look forward to if you stay with him. He's been holding back letting you see who he really is. Now that he feels secure in the relationship he's exposing who he really is. 

If you don't want a cheating partner/husband and a swinger, then don't stay with one.



Sierralyn20 said:


> Can men "go back sexually", to quote Chris Rock?


Nope, he can't "go back sexually". That's why he's told you what he is really like.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

All he has going for him is the sex. Keep him as a booty call until you find someone more suitable.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

1. Nope

2. Hell no

3. Ewwwww no


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.

I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.

I don't do casual sex, but I asked for exclusively when we started being sexually active 6 months after we met, he wouldn't commit to that since I said I wasn't ready to move in together.

There are other reasons too: he started copying my lifestyle and I found this eerie: joined a gym too, started jogging too, got rid of his old truck and got a new car, too, just like mine, got into a contract to buy a home (when I didn't want to be part of that, he canceled the agreement), talked about switching careers and joining my field, etc.

I can't keep him around as a booty call either. I have to end it firmly, perhaps block him. He's hanging on tight.



.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Block communication and ghost him.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

I hate it when that happens.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You are the complete opposites. You want a decent guy. One who is faithful, monogamous, honest and has integrity. 
He lies, deceives, cheats, and has no moral values. Plus his actions of copying you are very freaky. Plus he lives in dirt and mess. 
Keep him out if your life and away from your children. 

Just block him and don't reply to any future contact. 

You can do much better than this. Please be more fussy next time and dont settle.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.
> 
> I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.
> ...


This is just plain creepy. 

This is the whackadoodles I was talking about earlier. 

Again as I said earlier, dating is an interview and tryout period to see if a potential candidate is a good match or not. 

You’ve been around this guy long enough to know he is in the “Or Not” catagory. 

You don’t have to justify calling this off to anyone. Just wish him well and move on.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

He sounds like a weirdo to me.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> -snip- I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, -snip-
> 
> I *firmly* ended it again last night by* text*, -snip-
> ...


Apparently firmly has a different definition for you. Would you like to borrow a 2x4?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some people cling like leeches when you end it. They totally ignore what you say and try to pretend everything is normal.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

If you want to be one of his many sexual opportunities with STD risks to go with it, you found your man. His behavior is so reckless that you should be in fear being near him. He's this nice smiley, lovable caring man, to you and the rest of them. You're the full time one (until he needs a break with some strange...just havin' fun doncha know).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

From what you have written he appears to have nothing good about him at all.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.
> 
> I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.
> ...


Hope you havent attracted a stalker, someone not used to taking a NO for an answer


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's gainfully employed with a six figure salary but is stuck with high alimony payments to his ex wife.


So he lives in an apartment because of ^^this.^^ However ....



Sierralyn20 said:


> ... *joined a gym *too, started jogging too, got rid of his old truck and *got a new car*, too, just like mine, *got into a contract to buy a home* (when I didn't want to be part of that, he canceled the agreement)...


A liar of epic proportions. Into swinging. Giving mixed messages about his finances. Lives in a "filthy" apartment (yuck!). You dodged a huge bullet. 

BLOCK HIM NOW.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.
> 
> I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.
> ...


Just go ahead and block him so he can't try to worm his way back in and find new ways to creep you out. What you said they're about the other things is also creepy and just the total picture of this guy is that he very well could be a serious creep. So block him so he can't keep it up.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Copying your lifestyle is kind of creepy but it could be to get you to let down your guard so you can join his. A 57 year old guy bringing a 40 year old woman to a swinging party will surely give him access to many women. 

Of course I could be wrong and he’s just obsessed with you because of your young innocence. ( talking in respect to his age and sexual experience to your age and coming out of a long term marriage). Sometimes a woman can bring out the better in a man or cause him to want to be better.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.
> 
> I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.
> ...


Sounds like an extreme case of lovebombing. I don't like the sound of this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I know I should end it..
> I tried to a month before, he said he's giving me time to think about it, that I shouldn't make rush decisions.
> 
> I firmly ended it again last night by text, but he's still texting and checking in on me and asking to drop dinner at my door.
> ...


You know how Fatal Attraction ended right?

Use plenty of caution, keep yourself safe.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jsmart said:


> Copying your lifestyle is kind of creepy but it could be to get you to let down your guard so you can join his. A 57 year old guy bringing a 40 year old woman to a swinging party will surely give him access to many women.
> 
> Of course I could be wrong and he’s just obsessed with you because of your young innocence.


......or because he’s just a whack job. 

Those of you saying he’s trying to get her to swing - she has not said anything about him alluding to that. She just said he told her he had done that at some point in the past.

Now I’m not saying that he doesn’t want her to do that.

I’m just saying she hasn’t said that he has tried to get her to do it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You know how Fatal Attraction ended right?
> 
> Use plenty of caution, keep yourself safe.


If you’re gonna use the fatal attraction reference, then keep your bunny safe too!!!!


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> ......or because he’s just a whack job.
> 
> Those of you saying he’s trying to get her to swing - she has not said anything about him alluding to that. She just said he told her he had done that at some point in the past.
> 
> ...


It's part of his lifestyle. He's said it's an experience I should keep an open mind of


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> It's part of his lifestyle. He's said it's an experience I should keep an open mind of


@Sierralyn20

Ok so that is up to you whether that is a lifestyle you want to consider or not. 

But I’m going to go back what I’ve been saying - dating is how we get to know each other and find out if that person is who we want to be with or not. 

If you do want to explore that world - it sounds like he would be down for it with you.

If that lifestyle is not for you - then that is just one more thing in a pretty long list of incompatibilities.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> ......or because he’s just a whack job.
> 
> Those of you saying he’s trying to get her to swing - she has not said anything about him alluding to that. She just said he told her he had done that at some point in the past.
> 
> ...


Do you think he would drop that on a woman that just came out of a long term marriage due to adultery? No, he was going to play it safe, win her confidence and slowly try to bring her along. 

After years of betrayals, which are a form of emotional abuse and having sex with only her husband, she’s with an older, much more sexually experienced guy who’s love bombing was rocking her world. I’m sure she was loving the attention, which is why she was ignoring the red flags but now that she’s had some time, she’s finding that his actions are creeping her out. She didn’t say that but I’m just reading between the lines.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

jsmart said:


> Do you think he would drop that on a woman that just came out of a long term marriage due to adultery? No, he was going to play it safe, win her confidence and slowly try to bring her along.
> 
> After years of betrayals, which are a form of emotional abuse and having sex with only her husband, she’s with an older, much more sexually experienced guy who’s love bombing was rocking her world. I’m sure she was loving the attention, which is why she was ignoring the red flags but now that she’s had some time, she’s finding that his actions are creeping her out. She didn’t say that but I’m just reading between the lines.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

I value monogamy and exclusivity...and vanilla sex. I made this very clear when we started dating as I shared my experiences. At the time, he said ok, he values those things too.

Our initial sexual encounter was 6 months after meeting. He was extremely patient and loving and never pressured me for anything physically intimate. I think we had our first kiss after 3 months of meeting. He said he respected me, but he did pursue me very hard. Honestly, it felt great to be wanted after spending 20 years crying and pleading with my ex to stop cheating. Calls, dates, meetups, gifts, cooked meals, etc. Kept trying when I pulled back, which is what really won me over and I gave in and decided to give it a shot. Still, he stayed. Was loving and wanted to spend lots of time with me doing fun activities.

The other red flags have be there, but the swinging and cheating revelation was just recently, a month ago, during a pillow talk. He asked me to consider the possibility of exploring other stuff sexually. That's the last time I saw him. He's been relentlessly asking to get together again.

To be fair, I'm not in love with him. The attention was nice, though. So I blocked him today.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I value monogamy and exclusivity...and vanilla sex. I made this very clear when we started dating as I shared my experiences. At the time, he said ok, he values those things too.
> 
> Our initial sexual encounter was 6 months after meeting. He was extremely patient and loving and never pressured me for anything physically intimate. I think we had our first kiss after 3 months of meeting. He said he respected me, but he did pursue me very hard. Honestly, it felt great to be wanted after spending 20 years crying and pleading with my ex to stop cheating. Calls, dates, meetups, gifts, cooked meals, etc. Kept trying when I pulled back, which is what really won me over and I gave in and decided to give it a shot. Still, he stayed. Was loving and wanted to spend lots of time with me doing fun activities.
> 
> ...


Yes classic grooming. He wanted to get you addicted to the attention and hope to be in love. Show you how much you have in common. How nice he'll treat you. Then slowly show you other things and try to normalize. Ask you to keep an open mind eventually pressure a little to play off your emotion.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's been relentlessly asking to get together again.


I assume you see how downright creepy this guy really is. Why do you think you remained in the relationship as long as you did? I'm not asking to judge; I'm just curious.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Why did I remain in the relationship for so long (one year)?

1. I was extremely downtrodden after my marriage ended. My ex was controlling, a serial cheater, and physically abusive towards the end of the marriage. The 57yo validated my pain and was very empathetic. We bonded over stories of his experiences as a retired cop (his first career), working with abused women.

2. He was proud of my education, career (PHD at 27) and accomplishments. He praised me, encouraged me, complimented me, and supported me professionally and personally. My ex was competitive and belittled me constantly.

3. We met a year after my divorce, around the time my ex broke my arm and punched my face. The 57yo was extremely caring and supportive, saying no one deserves to be treated like that.

4. He pursued me hard, but also gave me space when I insisted on it. I had many moments of low self worth, he would bring cooked food, hold me tight, not insist on sex, and encourage me. I felt safe with him.

5. When I needed him, all I had to do was snap my fingers and he would immediately come over and offer help or support as requested. All texts were answered immediately. Now, I've read enough horror stories of emotionally unavailable men. He was always there for me, no questions asked. He'd drop everything and tend to my needs.

5. The sex was amazing. He loved and worshipped my body and figure. He always showered me with compliments.

6. Heck, sometimes I felt like a ****ty girlfriend to him. Going in, I wasn't looking for anything serious so quickly. I told him that. With everything going on in my life, he was patient. He said he'd give me all the time I needed to recover when I pushed him away. He said I was worth waiting for.

7. About the 17 year age gap, we had differences in taste of certain hobbies, but he was curious to learn about my interests. Watched the same Netflix shows I did, same artists I liked, googled the same music etc. Very flattering.




Can you blame me?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Why did I remain in the relationship for so long (one year)?
> 
> 1. I was extremely downtrodden after my marriage ended. My ex was controlling, a serial cheater, and physically abusive towards the end of the marriage. The 57yo validated my pain and was very empathetic. We bonded over stories of his experiences as a retired cop (his first career), working with abused women.
> 
> ...


No, no blame either way. 

You are both consenting adults. 

You are both also human beings with your pasts and your own baggage and bumps and bruises obtained from living to middle age on planet earth. 

Are either of you perfect human beings with perfect pasts and ideal histories?? No, you both have lived lives and have had your own issues and baggage. 

You don’t have a Chrystal clean past and neither will anyone you will encounter anyone else with a perfect, Chrystal clean past on the mid aged dating market.

It comes down to what is your critical criteria and minimum requirements and what are your deal breakers. 

Your requirements and deal breakers are yours to own and you don’t need to justify them to anyone else. 

This is why we date. We date to get to know people and see if they are right for us. 

Everyone will be on their best behavior and can say all the right things in the beginning. This is why we need to date for a length of time and experience four seasons (figuratively) with someone until we can see them for who and what they are. 

There’s no shame or foul here. You were around him enough to see him for who he is and see the red flags and accept your incompatibilities. 

He wasn’t the one. 

You may date any number of people that aren’t for you. That’s dating. You may go through a number of frogs before you find the prince.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F. We met on OLD, my first date after a 20yr marriage ended in divorce 2 yrs ago. He looked different in his pics (bearded, long hair, clean shaven on his OLD profile) but blamed it on Covid. The physical attraction wasn't there at all (though he's in excellent shape), but the more time we spent together, we connected deeply and he's a really fun, caring, considerate and gentle guy. He's a dynamite in the sack, too.
> 
> Coming out of a physically abusive marriage that ended with restraining orders, this relationship was a breath of fresh air. I've never felt so loved, cherished, respected, supported and accepted my entire life. His 2 kids are in their early thirties, my 2 are in their late teens. He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. He's never met my kids, but has been asking to meet them from the beginning. He's been begging me to meet his kids.
> 
> ...


Number 2 AND 3 are HUGE red flags. You are dating, and he failed your requirements, so move on


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jsmart said:


> Do you think he would drop that on a woman that just came out of a long term marriage due to adultery? No, he was going to play it safe, win her confidence and slowly try to bring her along.
> 
> After years of betrayals, which are a form of emotional abuse and having sex with only her husband, she’s with an older, much more sexually experienced guy who’s love bombing was rocking her world. I’m sure she was loving the attention, which is why she was ignoring the red flags but now that she’s had some time, she’s finding that his actions are creeping her out. She didn’t say that but I’m just reading between the lines.


You are absolutely right. This is how suave men do it, nice and easy, nonchalantly. When the woman realizes, she's already ensnared, and having difficulty to find the guts to disengage after realization.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

jsmart said:


> Copying your lifestyle is kind of creepy but it could be to get you to let down your guard so you can join his. A 57 year old guy bringing a 40 year old woman to a swinging party will surely give him access to many women.
> 
> Of course I could be wrong and he’s just obsessed with you because of your young innocence. ( talking in respect to his age and sexual experience to your age and coming out of a long term marriage). Sometimes a woman can bring out the better in a man or cause him to want to be better.


he might have taken it as a challenge to take your monogamous and relatively vanilla sexual attitudes, and turn you into someone who craves his swinging sex life. i.e. his kink my be in grooming you for this wild sex life. Kind of like what Ghislane Maxwell is on trial right now for doing to underage girls.

And due to your recent divorce, and your wanting to find a nurturing man, he i may be taking advantage of your needs to groom you for further sexual debauchery. He might have framed it that since he is older and more sexually experienced, that he wants to bring you out of your vanilla shell.

Now, if you are interested in that sort of a lifestyle....go for it. but if that shocks you, and is def not your cup of tea...i do not think he will ever give up trying to groom you that way.

As far as the filthy apartment...i would tend to discount that. Some guys just do not like to clean. If he truly has a 6 figure salary, tell him to get a maid service in once a week to clean up the pigsty

as far as swinging goes, there ARE many swinging clubs where the members are vetted for STDs. you can not get into a party unless you have a recent slew of tests to show you do not have STDs. So it would be an obvious first question to him...."have you been recently tested for STDs?" Him providing you with the test results would at least show you he has some level of responsibility


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> 4. He pursued me hard, but also gave me space when I insisted on it. I had many moments of low self worth, he would bring cooked food, hold me tight, not insist on sex, and encourage me. I felt safe with him.
> ....
> Can you blame me?


this is actually a classic psychological trick that (unethical) men use to attract women.

they go at the woman hard, really hitting sexually or emotionally on them, lots of compliments, lots of nurturing....then back off for a week or so. 
then repeat the pattern.

it has a proven effect in the woman of getting her very attracted to the man, and her wanting to do things to please him more so he sticks around longer and more often.

It sure sounds like he has a long range plan of conquering you.

the danger in all that is, after you are "conquered", does the thrill of pursuing you ebb, and he moves on?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Why did I remain in the relationship for so long (one year)?
> 
> 1. I was extremely downtrodden after my marriage ended. My ex was controlling, a serial cheater, and physically abusive towards the end of the marriage. The 57yo validated my pain and was very empathetic. We bonded over stories of his experiences as a retired cop (his first career), working with abused women.
> 
> ...


No. Anyone in your (male or female) position would be flattered and happy to meet someone like that, especially on a first date. Would be interesting to know what his reputation is around town because imagine he is quite the item among the available ( and maybe unavailable ) women.

On the face of it, your BF knew how to "schmooze" you. At 57, had learned how to identify vulnerable women and reel them in. He identified your buttons and pushed all of the right ones. On the other hand, you were quite a catch for him evidently.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> *Been seeing 57M for a year. I'm 40F.
> 
> He's been besotted from the beginning and has been wanting to commit/move in together for several months now. *


Sounds like Mr. Wonderful is simply shopping for a new sugar-mama. Sorry, I don't believe his story about earning 6 figures and all of his money is "going to his ex wife in alimony payments." 😂 But even if that's true, it doesn't change the fact that he's looking for a woman to support him and take care of him. That's what most of them do when they get to this age - they shop for a mommy-wife because they know the time is coming where tehy're going to need one.

And if the choice is just eeking out a living in a FILTHY apartment with roommates (while supposedly making a "6 figure salary") or living with YOU where the livin' is easy and he no longer has to worry about anything, then *guess* what he's going to pick?

Guess. 

I'll wait.

*ETA:* Plowing ahead I saw that you came to your senses about this disgusting ghoul and have decided to drop his perverted ass.

Good for you.

He's utterly repulsive.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> It's part of his lifestyle. He's said it's an experience I should keep an open mind of


That alone should ring alarm bells.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

this would be a lot easier decision for you if you had been more relaxed about casual sexual encounters. Maybe you would be up to attending some swinging parties.

but it sounds like you are pretty far from that sort of a decision. It sounds like just making love with one new man was a big decision for you.

Would you be ok if he went to swinging parties, but you did not attend? that would be one way to enjoy his positive aspects, without completely changing your persona to match his.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

OP is 40 yo newly divorced from abusive marriage and new to dating scene much different from her recollections. At age and situation, getting involved in swinging just adds bunch of complexity she doesnt need.

She had moved on, hopefully the old boy will accept that and not go into full creep mode.

How does she vet future contacts to avoid repeating this experience? I would think OLD would be worst way if meeting quality people.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

H


Talker67 said:


> this would be a lot easier decision for you if you had been more relaxed about casual sexual encounters. Maybe you would be up to attending some swinging parties.
> 
> but it sounds like you are pretty far from that sort of a decision. It sounds like just making love with one new man was a big decision for you.
> 
> Would you be ok if he went to swinging parties, but you did not attend? that would be one way to enjoy his positive aspects, without completely changing your persona to match his.


She wants a faithful guy and who can blame her. She wants a quality guy and he isn't it. She will be far happier ending this and finding a decent guy who will be faithful and honest.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> OP is 40 yo newly divorced from abusive marriage and new to dating scene much different from her recollections. At age and situation, getting involved in swinging just adds bunch of complexity she doesnt need.
> 
> She had moved on, hopefully the old boy will accept that and not go into full creep mode.
> 
> How does she vet future contacts to avoid repeating this experience? I would think OLD would be worst way if meeting quality people.


Well I have to say not always. 
3 members of my family(including myself) met their spouses/partner on line. All three really decent quality people. 
You do have to be careful though and know what you are looking for. Definitely don't use such sites as tinder either.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> this would be a lot easier decision for you if you had been more relaxed about casual sexual encounters. Maybe you would be up to attending some swinging parties.
> 
> but it sounds like you are pretty far from that sort of a decision. It sounds like just making love with one new man was a big decision for you.
> 
> Would you be ok if he went to swinging parties, but you did not attend? that would be one way to enjoy his positive aspects, without completely changing your persona to match his.


This isn’t about swinging. 

It is about incompatibility and this guy simply not being the right one for her. 

The swinging was just one item in a long list of red flags and incompatibilities.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Happy Boxing Day everyone...
I woke up on Christmas morning to find 3 boxes outside my door (Christmas gifts for me and my two children he's never met). I immediately called him to politely reject the gifts, but he's begging to "talk about what went wrong with us". He says he's done with the swinging and the cheating is in his past. He says he doesn't want to lose me. But I'm done with the relationship. I want out.

He will not accept the gifts back. Right now they're in the trunk of my car. The kids haven't seen them.

I am an a...hole for shipping them right back to him, with signature for proof of delivery? Or should I head over to his place to hand them back? They're not cheap. A laptop for each of my kids, and a designer handbag for me (very thoughtful, I know).

I feel like a horrible person.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

That the guy would shell out all that money is kind of gross to me. It seems like he’s trying to buy you back or something, yuck…


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Happy Boxing Day everyone...
> I woke up on Christmas morning to find 3 boxes outside my door (Christmas gifts for me and my two children he's never met). I immediately called him to politely reject the gifts, but he's begging to "talk about what went wrong with us". He says he's done with the swinging and the cheating is in his past. He says he doesn't want to lose me. But I'm done with the relationship. I want out.
> 
> He will not accept the gifts back. Right now they're in the trunk of my car. The kids haven't seen them.
> ...


You unfortunately have a* real *problem. The less contact you have with him the better. ANYTHING that encourages him is not good. So ship the boxes back. Do NOT take them back personally. You unfortunately have an infatuated man you know little about refusing to take a no for an answer. Send him a letter ( as in old school ), politely asking him to move on with life and leave you alone. I guess the next step is a letter from your attorney followed by a restraining order? What a mess.

Just for reference, this IMO is what OLD is good for, facilitating vulnerable people to find a nutcase for a date. No doubt every man over 25 who hasn't managed to legitimately attract a woman will be crawling through the internet looking for a hookup.

I would suggest joining a singles group at church, pal around with the group to get to know people before dating anyone. You are vulnerable, so of course you have managed to attract a predator.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Happy Boxing Day everyone...
> I woke up on Christmas morning to find 3 boxes outside my door (Christmas gifts for me and my two children he's never met). I immediately called him to politely reject the gifts, but he's begging to "talk about what went wrong with us". He says he's done with the swinging and the cheating is in his past. He says he doesn't want to lose me. But I'm done with the relationship. I want out.
> 
> He will not accept the gifts back. Right now they're in the trunk of my car. The kids haven't seen them.
> ...


Get them back to him asap. He is trying to buy you back. Clearly say that you want no more contact in anyway.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Leave them on his porch. Don't ring the bell - just text him that the boxes are there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> You unfortunately have a* real *problem. The less contact you have with him the better. ANYTHING that encourages him is not good. So ship the boxes back. Do NOT take them back personally. You unfortunately have an infatuated man you know little about refusing to take a no for an answer. Send him a letter ( as in old school ), politely asking him to move on with life and leave you alone. I guess the next step is a letter from your attorney followed by a restraining order? What a mess.
> 
> Just for reference, this IMO is what OLD is good for, facilitating vulnerable people to find a nutcase for a date. No doubt every man over 25 who hasn't managed to legitimately attract a woman will be crawling through the internet looking for a hookup.
> 
> I would suggest joining a singles group at church, pal around with the group to get to know people before dating anyone. You are vulnerable, so of course you have managed to attract a predator.


Please don't make such a judgement about those on OLD. Mostly they are just normal people like you or anyone else who would like to find someone.
Singles groups are only of benefit for those who are Christians and many churches dont have then or have very small numbers in them unless it's one of those very large churches.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You are going to have to be very careful with this guy. He’s not able to take no for an answer. 
Leave the presents at his door and text him that you don’t want any more contact with him. 
If he still doesn’t get the message let him know that you will be seeking legal advice.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus brings up some good points and it might be worth escalating it to the legal stage sooner rather than later.



Diana7 said:


> Singles groups are only of benefit for those who are Christians and many churches dont have then or have very small numbers in them unless it's one of those very large churches.


There are plenty of groups outside the church. Pick a hobby and you can usually find a group that meets regularly that includes men and women and some will be single.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> There are plenty of groups outside the church. Pick a hobby and you can usually find a group that meets regularly that includes men and women and some will be single.


I only mentioned church because that is wife and my social group. There are plenty of other groups based on common interests. If want to meet people, have to go where people gather. Exercise groups, hobby groups, charity groups. A physical group will vette new people and automatically weed out the goofy ones.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Leave them on his porch. Don't ring the bell - just text him that the boxes are there.


I don't think it's a good idea for her to go there herself. Ask a friend to do it for you. If he sees her pull up, he'll come outside and it could get ugly. Also, no text is necessary. He'll find them when he opens the door. The less contact the better.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, do not go over there. And don’t respond. Mail the stuff back. Block him and keep him blocked. Thankfully, he never met your children because he would likely be dragging them into this.


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## Chaotic_Aquarian (Feb 8, 2021)

OP mentioned he is a retired cop. I'm not saying all cops are bad people but I feel that info just adds another layer of creepy to this. If it were me, I would mail the gifts back with no letters, cards or texts.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Rus brings up some good points and it might be worth escalating it to the legal stage sooner rather than later.
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of groups outside the church. Pick a hobby and you can usually find a group that meets regularly that includes men and women and some will be single.


Yes you can do that on OLD groups as well. Groups for all different sorts of things. I met my husband on a Christian dating site, and several people I know met their now spouse in similar. I got to know quite a few really nice people there. 
People you meet IRL are no better/worse. You can meet people you never would have met otherwise which is great.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> I only mentioned church because that is wife and my social group. There are plenty of other groups based on common interests. If want to meet people, have to go where people gather. Exercise groups, hobby groups, charity groups. A physical group will vette new people and automatically weed out the goofy ones.


For Christians OLD is great. In the UK only 5-6% go to church. Most churches are small to medium sized with few singles mostly teens and early 20's. 
Interestingly it was God who prompted me to go into OLD. He is very capable of using the internet. 😄😉


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Happy Boxing Day everyone...
> I woke up on Christmas morning to find 3 boxes outside my door (Christmas gifts for me and my two children he's never met). I immediately called him to politely reject the gifts, but he's begging to "talk about what went wrong with us". He says he's done with the swinging and the cheating is in his past. He says he doesn't want to lose me. But I'm done with the relationship. I want out.
> 
> He will not accept the gifts back. Right now they're in the trunk of my car. The kids haven't seen them.
> ...


Remember, he is doing everything to keep you that has worked on you when you've pulled away all the previous times.
So your statements and actions don't mean that you really aren't interested in him to him - the dynamics of your whole relationship have been that when you say these things, he can get you back by "love bombing" you with attention and understanding (and gifts).

I agree that you need to proceed carefully with him. I wouldn't trust him because he does appear to be a liar. WHY would he now tell you that he's done with non-monogamy after saying he wanted you to keep an open mind about joining him in it?? THAT is the biggest red flag to me, not that he enjoys that sexual lifestyle, but that he suddenly changed what he said he wanted just to keep you...I would NEVER trust that, it never works or lasts!!!

I would return the gifts to his house, with a friend, and then let him know that you really need space to figure out what you want and his attention is making you uncomfortable and making you pull away more, so he needs to stop this time. Be careful making a person like this feel desperate for you, because that can make them unpredictable and therefore, dangerous to you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Did OP say the BF was retired LEO? If true, that is bigger potential problem. His old contacts in that fraternity can make life difficult and potentially dangerous. There was another long thread on here where wife's husband beat her and broke her arm when she tried to leave him. When people her told her to call the police, she said "He IS the police", as in chief of police.

OP, have your attorney do a background on this guy. That will determine the extent of what you are dealing with. I could imagine he is on OLD because anyone who knows him IRL know he is one to steer clear of. Attorneys subscribe to services that can turn up background of a person quickly, anonymously, and cheaply. Depending on what turns up, you may need to involve the attorney in getting this creep to leave you ( and your children ) alone.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Yes, he is a retired cop. I actually paid for a background check on him myself at the beginning of the relationship. Everything checked out at the time, no red flags. In fact, he's very knowledgeable about domestic violence, women shelters, abuse etc. That's how we bonded, considering my background.

The gifts were returned this morning. I asked a friend to help out, she left them with his doorman. His apartment building is very secure and the doorman has to buzz visitors in.

Several months ago, I saw a nasty dent on the side of his car and a broken window. He was cagey and didn't give a straight answer when I asked about it, and instead said he would rent a car while his got fixed. He couldn't even tell me where the damage occurred (his apartment garage and the greater neighborhood is very secure). Now that I think about him, someone must have bashed his car with a baseball bat. A previous poster wondered about his reputation, and this came to mind.

Thanks to everyone....I appreciate the advice. Hopefully he doesn't come back. The gifts have been returned.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Yes, he is a retired cop. I actually paid for a background check on him myself at the beginning of the relationship. Everything checked out at the time, no red flags. In fact, he's very knowledgeable about domestic violence, women shelters, abuse etc. That's how we bonded, considering my background.
> 
> The gifts were returned this morning. I asked a friend to help out, she left them with his doorman. His apartment building is very secure and the doorman has to buzz visitors in.
> 
> ...


Why would he know all about womens shelters, abuse, DV, etc. More suspicion 

Let friends and relatives know about this guy. And watch your back. Stay situation aware. 

Good job doing background check. But, those only turn up financial, civil, criminal issues that are major.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR NOTE:-* Let's keep it on topic, please, folks?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, what you don't do is fall for him or make any kind of commitment to him because he has already flat out told you he's not doing that. He's only going to keep you around if you'll participate in his swinging and swapping.
> 
> *If you want to just have a good time with him and you can do it without getting emotional about it, then have a good time with him but I don't think you're going to be able to do that. You don't need to be in another bad relationship.*


Edit: I see you do not want to be his booty call, good for you.

The guy is persistent..
Do not trust him!!

If you do get weak kneed and relent...
Do so, only if he wears a condom.

He is a disease carrier waiting to happen.

I doubt he would be willing to wear one.
He would likely be insulted!
The nerve!

It is all about him and his desires.


_Lilith-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This dude is a _Martian_ and is dangerous. 

I see him as being that stalker.

Get an attorney to write him a letter to_ stay-the-hell-away._

Put him on notice.

One good comment is due..
You must be one valuable lady for him to go this route!

Good Luck!



_Lilith-_


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Happy Boxing Day everyone...
> I woke up on Christmas morning to find 3 boxes outside my door (Christmas gifts for me and my two children he's never met). I immediately called him to politely reject the gifts, but he's begging to "talk about what went wrong with us". He says he's done with the swinging and the cheating is in his past. He says he doesn't want to lose me. But I'm done with the relationship. I want out.
> 
> He will not accept the gifts back. Right now they're in the trunk of my car. The kids haven't seen them.
> ...


He's trying to buy you off. You are not an asshole for giving them back. An asshole would keep them and still end the relationship.


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