# 20 something couple, no sex... killing me



## ds2001ds (Jul 25, 2012)

My wife and I met several years ago when she was still in college.
We fell right in love and couldnt keep our hands off each other.
We dated, got engaged... we saved intercourse for our wedding night but passion and intimacy were not a problem. We had great chemistry.

6 months before the wedding, something changed. I have found no reason. Nothing that happened. No cause.

At the time, I thought it was a combination of birth control pills and nerves about planning the wedding... but since that time my fiance' and now wife has barely touched me and seemingly has no desire to.

We talk about it, but she says she doesnt know how to fix it.

We have been to doctors, therapists... read books... none of them have found anything wrong or have given any hope.

Basically there are two problems.

1. Sex is painful for my wife. We have tried everything but it hurts. The doctors find no problem. They think its her nerves and she needs to relax but her pain is intense.

2. She has low self esteem. She is a beautiful woman... but she has no confidence. Her mom ran her down in her teenage years and even though my jaw drops when I see her she thinks lowly of her appearance.

We got married and through the honeymoon she kept saying "When does it stop hurting"?
It never did.
As weeks went by it kept on so we stopped trying. I dont blame her.. i get it... it hurts. I dont want to hurt her.

Weeks turned into months, months turned into years.

We are 4 years in to our marriage and we have already had a 2.5 year period where we had no sex.

We did have a baby.. it was time but on the side I hoped that the process of trying would break thru some barrier.

We got pregnant the first month.. we only had sex 3 times.
(I am thankful for this many ways.. I know some people struggle to get pregnant so I am in no way upset by this)

After the baby was born she asked the doctors about sex again and I had hope she was committed to trying to find an answer...

But she never followed through. She was told to read books.. she bought them but never opened them.

She has seemingly all but given up. We had sex on our anniversary and to her credit she did try.. but it still hurt and it has not been brought up again.

So now I struggle in two ways.
Let be clear I do not blame her for not wanting to hurt. 
What I cannot handle is her trying to find any way to fix it.
I feel so distant from her.. there are other ways we could be intimate with each other that doesnt involve intercourse.

But so little contact between us.

I have been turned down soo many times. Always an excuse always something in the way. 

I am at my wits end.

I feel like our marriage is an empty shell. I dont even know if its the lack of sex or if its a bigger problem. 

We dont fight we get along but we merely exist with each other. There is no more.

It feels so hopeless.

Sorry this is so long.


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## Vizion (Jul 21, 2012)

wow, I'm really feeling for you. I have heard of this problem before, the pain, and its been real hard on the relationship. Can she enjoy othe aspects of sex besides intercourse (clitoral orgasm)? or is that painfull too. Does she fully understand how this is effecting you and that you are about over the edge? I know you said you discussed it but does she truly understand. I'm trying to think of what I would do if I was in this situation.... 2 things - find a way to take the edge off of my labido with myself or reasearch and find out if there is a way to take my desire away or make it less. This is difficult, I am sure and it sounds like you love her and you have a child and to me the child is worth almost any sacrifice to raise in a environment with the mother and father under one roof. I'm wondring if there is a way to reduce penis size. I know this sounds crazy but the situation needs out of the box/radicall thinking. Any consideration to anal sex? I know some women wouldnt consider this but maybe she would be willing for the sake of your sanity. who knows it may change something within her too. There can be pleasurable stimulation for her possibley. I know there is some releif somewhere out there for you. keep digging. try to find information on couples that have gone through this to get ideas if you havent already. I wsh you all the luck I possibly can


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## AwwSnail (Jul 22, 2012)

Typically when there is no physical issue it tends to stem from a mental road block. Has she tried therapy? Would she consider counseling? There may be something from her past or childhood, or maybe not... I would talk to her about it, not in the bedroom; sit her down and talk to her. Discuss your concerns in a very approachable manner then express that if she were on board and wanting to improve the marriage that she consider getting into counseling. 

There was a time when sex was painful for me and the best thing for us was to take it slow. He stimulated via oral sex then we progressed. Now its fine and we can go straight to intercourse. My issue was physical...I'm all better now.

I will tell you it is difficult, at first, to get beyond that feeling that it will hurt. Relaxation and perhaps an orgasm prior to intercourse will help. Foreplay. But she needs to understand what you are thinking. She needs to know what your needs are. A marriage is about both partners. Maintaining a healthy sex-life is important. I think expressing this to her might help her understand where you're coming from. From the sounds of it, you have talked about it... continue to talk and communicate and urge her to commit to a healthy sex-life


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> 1. Sex is painful for my wife. We have tried everything but it hurts. The doctors find no problem. They think its her nerves and she needs to relax but her pain is intense.


Have you tried Using artificial lubrication? Are you being gentle? Have you circular movements instead of stabbing moves?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Went through very very similar circumstances to yours. Right down to the self esteem issues and lousy parents.

ANY vaginal contact my ex used to describe as 'feeling like sand paper', wasn't always that way. Prior to our engagement, we were very sexually active.

Google dyspareunia (going off the top of my head so spelling may be off) and vulvodynia.

I went through a very similar arc as you describe.

The mental component without a doubt comes to overshadow the physical. My ex developed a full blown aversion to sex ... with me.

She was not at all proactive in seeking medical advice, and felt harassed if I brought it up.

Long story short. I hung in there for nine years. What little there was of our sex life rarely involved intercourse.
I will tell you what we had some success with, I bought her a vibrator and lube to practice with solo, and use as a precursor prior to us trying intercourse.

It took a toll on our relationship and devastated our intimacy. I was dealt with like a misbehaving child asking for a cookie if I brought up the possibility of sex.

We were roommates and co-parents, little else.

Our marriage ended. She pursued therapy and medical treatment and now has a healthy sex life ... with someone else.

My advice to you?

Show your wife this thread.

If she cannot understand, cope with or face the absolutely corrosive impact that this issue will have on your marriage, and be eager and willing to seek a solution or at least work around the issue with you; than quite simply there is no hope for your marriage over the long term. 

I still maintain a very good relationship with my ex-wife. But had she chosen to take the steps that she did after our marriage ended, in an effort to make her new relationship work, with me ... 10 years ago, you wouldn't be reading this post today.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You're four years into a sexless marriage. So time and understanding obviously isn't going to fix this problem.

Your wife is being selfish and denying you of a primary need of yours within your marriage. A parallel would be to think of what it would be like if listening caused you physical pain. Your wife wants to talk to you, but you just can't bring yourself to listen to her.

Now, if you really cared about your wife's need to communicate with her, then you would use texting, email, writing notes, and other alternative methods of communication. What would be incredibly selfish of you is to deny your wife any and all means of communicating with you.

So, you need to take the bull by the horns. Go to Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. and read up on alpha behavior. You need to add alpha.

Then, you need to tell your wife that her behavior is unacceptable. You're not expecting her to begin a wild and frequent sex life today. But, you do expect her to begin to consider your needs.

Good luck.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, so don't agree with PHTLump here. It's causing her physical pain. I agree she should be talking to doctors, etc. to overcome the problem, but that's where the blame stops. It's not like she's fully capable but simply would rather play cards on a computer than be bothered with sex.

That said, this is a great example of why sex BEFORE marriage is important. Sex is such a key cog in a marriage that I don't understand why anyone would want to wait until marriage to have sex and hope it all works out.

Have sex beforehand. It's better than finding this out after and spending four years in a sexless marriage full of frustration and likely other issues such as humiliation and resentment.

To the OP< all I can say is sit your wife down, explain where you are coming from, and have help her get the help she needs. Go with her to doctors appointments if she wants you too. Help her look into it. I wouldn't put any extra effort into it than she does, but you have to help her with it.

If she refuses to try and fix the issue, or says she will and then does little/nothing about it, then you have a real serious problem as it will NEVER get fixed unless she's willing to try.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Something odd you wrote.
You were not having sex but think that her birth control harmed her sex drive? Why was she taking BC?

The thing is, you should listen to Deejo.

I will add that I can solve the mystery of where her sex drive went. Once she had you bagged, she no longer needed to have sex. A women has sex with a man for a reason. You stopped giving her a reason.... And being this new age super understanding dude is not going to give her the reason back.


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## heartsdelight (Apr 2, 2012)

Wow, to PHTLump and Hicks, sounds like you guys have little understanding of serious mental health concerns that can cause a woman to have severe pain or severe anxiety around sexual penetration. Or little faith that a woman could not want to have sex for a reason that's not manipulative.

She may have vaginismus, or sexual aversion disorder. Both mental concerns but vaginismus has a physical reaction. The prognosis for vaginismus is more hopeful but both are treatable. There are several other things that it could be. 

I would try to talk to her about her feelings around it. Is she still feeling sexually turned on but penetration is then painful? Does the idea of sexual contact at all give her anxiety, even if it didn't initially?

It does make me wonder though, you said you'd been to doctors and therapists plural? And none offered any term such as vaginismus or anything similar? Either you exaggerated your attempts or you're dealing with professionals unfamiliar with such concerns. My advice would be to discuss with your wife if she really wants to work on this. If she doesn't, as others have said that's a whole nother issue you two would have to work on. If she does, or is hesitant or reluctant to due to past failed attempts but willing to try even one more thing, I would strongly recommend finding a sex therapist- not a couples therapist or family therapist or someone who also treats sexual concerns but someone who SPECIALIZES in sexual concerns. They can help you with not only the sexual concern but the emotional issues attached (frustration, guilt, resentment, whatever).


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## Vizion (Jul 21, 2012)

good advice guys


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## Zab (Jul 25, 2012)

One thing I could tell you is that you two shouldn't have given up. I too had a simillar problem as your wife. I was a virgin when I met my husband and sex was so painful. It lasted for about 7 to 8 months before it could work out. Sometimes I wanted to give up trying because months were passing by but it wasn't getting any better. But we kept giving it a short almost every day antill it was finally fine- after 8 hard moths.

After I had a baby a year later, it was even worse- I felt like I was back to square one, after moths it worked out again. So if there's no medical explanation to that, it might be a simillar situation with mine. All you need to do both of you is give it time, its not gonna be easy and its so disgusting I know. But if you love each other and are dedicated to make it work, just hang in there.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kingsfan said:


> Yeah, so don't agree with PHTLump here. It's causing her physical pain.


Is it causing her physical pain in her hand? In her mouth? There are alternatives to sex/intimacy besides P in V intercourse.

Is his wife having physical pain in her eyes, which causes her to refuse to read the books her doctors recommend? I doubt it.



kingsfan said:


> I agree she should be talking to doctors, etc. to overcome the problem, but that's where the blame stops.


So, you agree that there is a big problem. And you agree that the wife should be trying to address the problem. But the fact that she isn't doesn't strike you as a big deal? I disagree.



kingsfan said:


> It's not like she's fully capable but simply would rather play cards on a computer than be bothered with sex.


It seems that she would rather play on the computer than address the problem. Perhaps the problem can be solved. But it surely can't be solved if his wife refuses to get off the couch.



kingsfan said:


> If she refuses to try and fix the issue, or says she will and then does little/nothing about it, then you have a real serious problem as it will NEVER get fixed unless she's willing to try.


Which is exactly the OP's issue.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

heartsdelight said:


> Wow, to PHTLump and Hicks, sounds like you guys have little understanding of serious mental health concerns that can cause a woman to have severe pain or severe anxiety around sexual penetration. Or little faith that a woman could not want to have sex for a reason that's not manipulative.


You misunderstand my position.

I know that there are many reasons wives withhold sex from their husbands. Some are manipulative and some aren't. And I don't dispute that the OP's wife has pain and/or anxiety related to sex.

What I contend is that the OP's wife has a responsibility to her husband and her marriage to try to address the problem. It is unacceptable for her to say, "Well, sex is painful. But I refuse to work to solve the problem, or to provide any alternative means of intimacy for you to obtain release. We'll try sex again in a couple of years."

The wife is capable of having sex. When she wanted a child, she had sex 3 times in a month. Now that sex isn't about her need for a child, and only about her husband's need for intimacy, she's gone 2.5 years with no contact. That's selfish. Not only is it selfish, it's amazingly selfish.

So I recognize that physical and/or mental issues will likely preclude this woman from desiring frequent sex. But I refuse to give her a pass for choosing to sentence her husband to a life of celibacy rather than expend some effort to solve her problem.


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## heartsdelight (Apr 2, 2012)

That's why I said he needs to start by talking to her about her feelings towards everything. Does she want to try? Is she too scared? What could he do to make it easier? It's easy to jump the gun based on the broad information he's given us and not hearing her side of the story. I don't think that stirring up his probably already brewing resentment and frustration is going to help. If he goes to her and she ends up saying "I'm done, I don't want to try anymore", THAT'S when his brain should go to "this is unfair to me" and he should look at his options based on more information.


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## heartsdelight (Apr 2, 2012)

Although let me add that I agree with you that there are other ways to be sexually intimate, although he has not been clear about what he's specifically asked for and been denied. I think that that is another important conversation he needs to have with her. What's going on with that aspect? 

I personally would find more info from the OP helpful.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

heartsdelight said:


> I don't think that stirring up his probably already brewing resentment and frustration is going to help. If he goes to her and she ends up saying "I'm done, I don't want to try anymore", THAT'S when his brain should go to "this is unfair to me" and he should look at his options based on more information.


You're correct that we don't have all the information. But that's the nature of this forum. Unless the OP has lied about something, or omitted some major facts, the picture seems clear enough.

Now, if he's lived for years in a sexless marriage without talking to his wife, then he obviously needs to try that. It's crazy not to talk to her many times.

Although, given several years of a sexless marriage, I imagine he has talked to her many times. If I had to hazard a guess on how his last conversation went, or how another conversation would go, his wife would probably recognize that she needed to try again. She would make another appointment with a doctor. And then she would come up with an excuse not to go. Or, if she did go, she would not follow through on the doctor's recommendations.

That's because she's selfish and she hasn't needed to follow through. Her husband has been willing to accept a sexless marriage. What needs to change is that the OP needs to stop accepting a sexless marriage.

Can he ever have a marriage with this woman that includes daily sex that includes intercourse? Perhaps not. But he can have a marriage that includes daily intimacy with regular physical expressions of that intimacy. And he won't be insensitive to insist upon that.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Is it causing her physical pain in her hand? In her mouth? There are alternatives to sex/intimacy besides P in V intercourse.


Very good. Glad we both understand that.

I'm speaking strictly to P in V sex, which is what the OP was referring to generally as well. Yes, he mentioned 'other' means, but he is speaking through almost the entire post about P in V intercourse. P in V is painful for her. Additionally, you come across as to over the top initially. I get it, be an alpha. Good idea, but you can have the talk without throwing out how she's 'selfish'. Reserve that for later if you want.



PHTlump said:


> Is his wife having physical pain in her eyes, which causes her to refuse to read the books her doctors recommend? I doubt it.


Recognize the issue. You and me both know 'physical pain' isn't stopping her from reading the books. She has given up for the moment. That's frsutration, anxiety and being at a loss for what to do. She has tried in the past though, as the OP stated, and will likely again, she just needs encouragement to do so. Stop embellishing.




PHTlump said:


> So, you agree that there is a big problem. And you agree that the wife should be trying to address the problem. But the fact that she isn't doesn't strike you as a big deal? I disagree.


Where did I say it wasn't a big deal? I said she should be talking to the doctors and deserves blame for not doing so. Nowhere in my post did I say it's not a big deal. I'd never suggest that a sexless marriage, for whatever reason, is not a big deal. Stop putting words into my posts. 




PHTlump said:


> It seems that she would rather play on the computer than address the problem. Perhaps the problem can be solved.* But it surely can't be solved if his wife refuses to get off the couch.*


And I said the bolded in my post. Not sure why you're adding it.

She is likely avoiding the issue right now. It's classic human response to an issue such as this. When we are faced with a problem, we instictively try and find a solution. However, when we try multiple things and get little/no benefit, we tend to give up for a while. That's where she's at. The fact she has tried in the past is a solid reflector she will try aagain in the future, but likely at this point she's avoiding the issue as a result of failure. The OP needs to get her back and into the discussion before anything can be done, JUST as I said in my post. 




PHTlump said:


> Which is exactly the OP's issue.


No kidding. That's why I posted it, so he can udnerstand that and focus on how to address it, rather than view his wife simply as selfish which isn't going to solve anything if he goes at with that approach.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kingsfan said:


> I'm speaking strictly to P in V sex, which is what the OP was referring to generally as well. Yes, he mentioned 'other' means, but he is speaking through almost the entire post about P in V intercourse. P in V is painful for her.


The P in V is painful. Yes. My point is that there are alternatives that are not painful to her, yet she refuses to do them.



kingsfan said:


> Additionally, you come across as to over the top initially. I get it, be an alpha. Good idea, but you can have the talk without throwing out how she's 'selfish'. Reserve that for later if you want.


My tone is warranted by the OP's wife's actions. If the OP had written that his wife experienced pain and has withheld sex from him for 2.5 weeks, or even 2.5 months, then I would advise measured restraint. But his wife has withheld sex for 2.5 years. That's around 900 days without sex. And you have a problem with me calling that selfish? Seriously?



kingsfan said:


> She has tried in the past though, as the OP stated, and will likely again, she just needs encouragement to do so. Stop embellishing.


You really think so? When? In another 2.5 years? You think we should advise the OP to just be encouraging to his wife and then, one day in the distant future, maybe she'll decide to recognize his right to intimacy? I disagree. I think 2.5 years is long enough to wait. I think it's too long to wait.



kingsfan said:


> Where did I say it wasn't a big deal? I said she should be talking to the doctors and deserves blame for not doing so. Nowhere in my post did I say it's not a big deal. I'd never suggest that a sexless marriage, for whatever reason, is not a big deal. Stop putting words into my posts.


When you stated that she should talk to doctors, "but that's where the blame stops," it seemed like you were trying to minimize her responsibility. I'm glad that wasn't your intent.



kingsfan said:


> No kidding. That's why I posted it, so he can udnerstand that and focus on how to address it, rather than view his wife simply as selfish which isn't going to solve anything if he goes at with that approach.


What isn't going to work is for the OP to continue in his mindset that his wife is not to blame for the sexual problems in their marriage, to assume that his wife is being truthful when she says she wants to solve the problem, and thus allow her to continue in the status quo.

What might work is for the OP to change his mindset. For him to stop listening to his wife's words and start paying attention to her actions. She may say that she wants a sex life with him. But her actions communicate that she doesn't. I understand that it will be difficult for her. We all have our crosses to bear. That doesn't give her the right to sentence her husband to a life of celibacy. And he shouldn't accept it.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> My tone is warranted by the OP's wife's actions. If the OP had written that his wife experienced pain and has withheld sex from him for 2.5 weeks, or even 2.5 months, then I would advise measured restraint. But his wife has withheld sex for 2.5 years. That's around 900 days without sex. And you have a problem with me calling that selfish? Seriously?


Totally seriously.

This talk is something that should have taken place after a few months, not 2.5 years later. The OP says 'we've talked' but has that talk(s) ever once said "I know this is a difficult issue for you, but I'm suffering too?" Judging by the tone of the post, I doubt whether the OP ever spoke about his needs to his wife, rather approached it from the angle of helping her out. To suddenly switch gears and start calling her selfish is over the top. What should be done is a much more gentle approach, focusing on his needs and why it's important that she work on this for him and for the marriage, not just for her. She very well may not have even thought of it from this angle before. Additionally, we have no idea how long ago these talks were, and since he seemingly has settled for no sex in two-plus years, odds are it has been a while since they've even discussed it. And you think coming into a room one day and having a talk about how selfish she is will fix the problem? To much to fast. 




PHTlump said:


> You really think so? When? In another 2.5 years? You think we should advise the OP to just be encouraging to his wife and then, one day in the distant future, maybe she'll decide to recognize his right to intimacy? I disagree. I think 2.5 years is long enough to wait. I think it's too long to wait.


Where in my post did I advocate sitting back on your hands and waiting 2.5 years? She can (and should) start dealing with this issue ASAP. The OP should encourage her to do so. I'm not saying pat her on the back and say 'It'll be ok someday,' I'm saying 'Let's both go to the doctor next week and see what we can find out and go from there.' Once again, stop putting words in my posts.




PHTlump said:


> What isn't going to work is for the OP to continue in his mindset that his wife is not to blame for the sexual problems in their marriage, to assume that his wife is being truthful when she says she wants to solve the problem, and thus allow her to continue in the status quo.
> 
> What might work is for the OP to change his mindset. For him to stop listening to his wife's words and start paying attention to her actions. She may say that she wants a sex life with him. But her actions communicate that she doesn't. I understand that it will be difficult for her. We all have our crosses to bear. That doesn't give her the right to sentence her husband to a life of celibacy. And he shouldn't accept it.


I think we are in agreement here, just that your approach is one I don't agree to personally (which is fine, I just think it's overly harsh considering this subject seemingly has lay dormant for so long). I think the OP also needs to except his blame in the issue as well, for the reason you stated. She hasn't communicated fully which is her fault, but he hasn't sat her down and had the 'I'm not trying to be rude here, but I have needs too' speech either. You know, the polite, kind talk which says 'I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but at the end of the day we both have needs in this relationship and I have one which needs fulfillment. What can we do about it.' Not saying she's selfish, not blaming anyone, just laying it on the table.

He (seemingly) hasn't done that, which is what has allowed this to go on for 2.5 years. That talk should have happened along time ago, but it didn't, so it needs to be done now. For him to leave the issue lie for this long, then to one day start calling her selfish is not very likely to convince her to work to improve the issue.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kingsfan said:


> Totally seriously.


Fair enough. I suppose we just have different ideas of what is reasonable in a marriage and what is unreasonably selfish.



kingsfan said:


> This talk is something that should have taken place after a few months, not 2.5 years later. The OP says 'we've talked' but has that talk(s) ever once said "I know this is a difficult issue for you, but I'm suffering too?" Judging by the tone of the post, I doubt whether the OP ever spoke about his needs to his wife, rather approached it from the angle of helping her out.


The OP hasn't explicitly stated what he's discussed with his wife, how often he's discussed it, and when the discussions started. I'm going to assume that he's a reasonable person and started the discussions at least two years ago and included his feelings in the discussions.



kingsfan said:


> To suddenly switch gears and start calling her selfish is over the top. What should be done is a much more gentle approach, focusing on his needs and why it's important that she work on this for him and for the marriage, not just for her. She very well may not have even thought of it from this angle before.


I haven't advocated that the OP call his wife selfish. I've simply stated that she is selfish. I think it will help the OP to understand that.

And you seem to agree. You don't want her to be called selfish. However, you think that the OP needs to ask her to meet his needs, which she's been unwilling to do. And you think it's possible that she's never even considered his needs before. That's pretty much the definition of a selfish wife.



kingsfan said:


> And you think coming into a room one day and having a talk about how selfish she is will fix the problem? To much to fast.


Again, I'm not advocating that he tell his wife that she's selfish. At least not immediately. But he needs to change the pitch. For years, he's been understanding and supportive. And it's gotten him no consideration from his wife. So he needs to do something different.



kingsfan said:


> Where in my post did I advocate sitting back on your hands and waiting 2.5 years? She can (and should) start dealing with this issue ASAP. The OP should encourage her to do so. I'm not saying pat her on the back and say 'It'll be ok someday,' I'm saying 'Let's both go to the doctor next week and see what we can find out and go from there.' Once again, stop putting words in my posts.


Sorry about that. The OP, in his original post, stated that they had seen multiple doctors and therapists. That it didn't help and his wife had given it up, even though she hadn't followed through with their advice previously.

Given that information, your advice is to encourage her to do more of the same. What, exactly, makes you think that the Nth try is the charm? What makes you think that there is some magic amount of understanding that the OP can show his wife that will FINALLY break through her resistance and result in her taking the problem seriously?

Given the information from the original post, it seems rational to think that the same approach will lead to the same results. Which is to say more celibacy. That's where I understood you to recommend waiting. If you think the same approach will lead to different results, I'll simply say that I disagree.



kingsfan said:


> He (seemingly) hasn't done that, which is what has allowed this to go on for 2.5 years. That talk should have happened along time ago, but it didn't, so it needs to be done now. For him to leave the issue lie for this long, then to one day start calling her selfish is not very likely to convince her to work to improve the issue.


You're assuming that he hasn't talked to her about his needs. I think that's unlikely. He has stated that they've talked about the issue. It is possible that their discussions never broached the subject of his wants and needs. But again, I think it's unlikely.

However, lets assume that you're correct and that he has never once told his wife that he would like to have a sexual relationship with her. Let's assume that he's even gone so far as to state that celibacy has been a lifelong goal of his. This would be ludicrous for any woman to accept. And there are two scenarios where his wife would accept it. The first is, as I said, she is selfish. She doesn't care about her husband's needs. The second is, she is a moron. She has no idea that men like sex. That's really the only two options I can think of that explain her behavior.

However, I will agree that he does share some blame. He has accepted a sexless marriage for far too long. So he needs to accept his share of the blame and stop accepting a sexless marriage. And, if he married a moron, then he needs to accept blame for that as well. 

But getting his wife to accept her share of the blame for trying to impose a life of celibacy on her husband will likely be messy. I doubt that he can do it with a non-judgmental approach.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> The OP hasn't explicitly stated what he's discussed with his wife, how often he's discussed it, and when the discussions started. I'm going to assume that he's a reasonable person and started the discussions at least two years ago and included his feelings in the discussions.


I also would assume that a reasonable person doesn't go 2.5 years without sex, but here we are.



PHTlump said:


> I haven't advocated that the OP call his wife selfish. I've simply stated that she is selfish. I think it will help the OP to understand that.


Fair enough. I assumed that the language you used here is the language you'd like him to use as well (in general). 



PHTlump said:


> And you seem to agree. You don't want her to be called selfish. However, you think that the OP needs to ask her to meet his needs, which she's been unwilling to do. And you think it's possible that she's never even considered his needs before. That's pretty much the definition of a selfish wife.


Let me clarrify. I think it's possible she doesn't understand his needs. At least not in the scope of just how badly he needs it. Once again, we have no comprehension of how this discussion has taken place between them, and based on the OP's post, he doesn't seem like the type to just say what's on his mind. He's gone 2.5 years without any physical intimacy at all and is still defending her heavily. So I doubt he's laid it all on the line with her. She may simply think sex isn't a HUGE thing with him because, while he's definately asked about it, he's not pushed the issue. They also had no sex before marriage either, so this could reenforce that image in her head. I don't take it so much as selfish as just misinformed.




PHTlump said:


> Again, I'm not advocating that he tell his wife that she's selfish. At least not immediately. But he needs to change the pitch. For years, he's been understanding and supportive. And it's gotten him no consideration from his wife. So he needs to do something different.


This is what I'm saying as well. I think where we differ is how much of a change in pitch he should enact immediately.




PHTlump said:


> Sorry about that. The OP, in his original post, stated that they had seen multiple doctors and therapists. That it didn't help and his wife had given it up, even though she hadn't followed through with their advice previously.
> 
> Given that information, your advice is to encourage her to do more of the same. What, exactly, makes you think that the Nth try is the charm? What makes you think that there is some magic amount of understanding that the OP can show his wife that will FINALLY break through her resistance and result in her taking the problem seriously?
> 
> Given the information from the original post, it seems rational to think that the same approach will lead to the same results. Which is to say more celibacy. That's where I understood you to recommend waiting. If you think the same approach will lead to different results, I'll simply say that I disagree.


The doctor example I gave was just an example. Only the OP truly knows what was said and done before and what was suggested and never acted on. He'd know best where to pick up on things again and where to suggest she go. All I'm saying is he should get her going again, and steer her towards the help she needs to find. Where that is, only the OP fully knows.




PHTlump said:


> You're assuming that he hasn't talked to her about his needs. I think that's unlikely. He has stated that they've talked about the issue. It is possible that their discussions never broached the subject of his wants and needs. But again, I think it's unlikely.
> 
> However, lets assume that you're correct and that he has never once told his wife that he would like to have a sexual relationship with her. Let's assume that he's even gone so far as to state that celibacy has been a lifelong goal of his.


That's actually not what I'm saying at all in terms of explaining his needs.

I'm questioning if he's actually sat her down and explained how much he needs sex, why he needs sex, how important it is to him and how it makes him feel being rejected as often as he is. We are all guessing to some degree here, and more so since the OP hasn't come back to provide further to this, but based on what I read, the OP seems to be the type who would focus more on his wife's needs than his own, and perhaps is the type who would question whether or not his sexual needs are even just/warranted. He needs to explain to her what he's feeling, what he needs and how the lack of sex makes him feel. I'm not talking about celibacy and she should know a sexual relationship is a desire of his to some extent (though she may not know how fully), I'm talking about explaining how it isn't just SEX he wants, but rather intimacy, and how the two are totally different, even if they look the same.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

kingsfan said:


> He needs to explain to her what he's feeling, what he needs and how the lack of sex makes him feel. I'm not talking about celibacy and she should know a sexual relationship is a desire of his to some extent (though she may not know how fully), I'm talking about explaining how it isn't just SEX he wants, but rather intimacy, and how the two are totally different, even if they look the same.


That's fine. I just think the degree changes the issue.

A woman who has sex with her husband twice a month may believe that she is fulfilling his needs. If he actually needs sex twice a week, I think that she can be excused for thinking that she was doing right by him. A conversation can resolve this problem.

A woman who never has sex with her husband can't claim miscommunication. Any woman with an IQ over 70 should understand that sex is a requirement for any marriage. Should the OP have clearly stated his needs? Yes. Should he still have a "come to Jesus" talk with her? Yes. Can she claim that she just didn't understand that her husband needs sex more than once every 2.5 years? No. This problem will require many conversations in conjunction with radical behavior changes in order to be resolved. It may not even be possible to resolve.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> That's fine. I just think the degree changes the issue.
> 
> A woman who has sex with her husband twice a month may believe that she is fulfilling his needs. If he actually needs sex twice a week, I think that she can be excused for thinking that she was doing right by him. A conversation can resolve this problem.
> 
> A woman who never has sex with her husband can't claim miscommunication. Any woman with an IQ over 70 should understand that sex is a requirement for any marriage. Should the OP have clearly stated his needs? Yes. Should he still have a "come to Jesus" talk with her? Yes. Can she claim that she just didn't understand that her husband needs sex more than once every 2.5 years? No. This problem will require many conversations in conjunction with radical behavior changes in order to be resolved. It may not even be possible to resolve.


Completely agree.


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