# Wife's Online Affair



## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Hello everyone. I've been reading these forums for the last few days, and they have been a tremendous source of guidance and solidarity. I thought it was time to lay out what I've been going through and see if anyone out there can help me sort through what I'm going through.

My wife had been playing this online game for the last 7 months or so. Initially we were playing it together, but she would play it while I was at work (she's a stay-at-home mom except during normal school semesters when she's teaching for an hour or so Monday-Friday) and started to get too deep into it for me. She worked her way into a clique in there and I just no longer felt welcome.

It has caused numerous issues during the course of our marriage. We are going to marrital counseling and it has come up several times in there. One of the things our therapist wanted us to work on as a couple, was greeting each other for a good while when I first come in the door, but there were points where my wife could only glance up from the game on her laptop to say "hello" when I would come in. There was also an incident where she wanted to go out of town to meet "her best friend" from the game. Wanting her to have an opportunity to get out for a bit out of town and away from the kids, I was totally fine with it. After some reassurances that she had checked the woman out and was going to send me a picture of them when she was safely down there.

After she came back, my spider sense was telling me something was a bit off, so I decided to have a look in her phone. In the text messages, her friend, who is supposed to be married was talking about how she couldn't wait to meet the guy she was going to see, and had tried to look sexy for him. I also saw where my wife had pictures on her phone of her, the woman, and a man I didn't recognize. I confronted her about it and she tried to lie and tell me there was no guy. I told her I had proof and after getting indignant, she eventually started answering my questions and said that the woman and her husband are polyamorous, well at least she is; the husband isn't allowed to be with anyone else. Obviously I was pissed, mainly because of the lying, but also because my wife and I are supposed to be Christians and not supporting what is ultimately an adulterous lifestyle. She finally told me she was just desperate to get out for a while and was afraid I would tell her she couldn't go if I knew the details. The truth is though, I would have frowned upon it, but I probably would have let her just to give her a break, if she hadn't lied.

So that was a few months ago. In the last month or so, my wife has been going through a lot of stress...her mother, who has been a big support to us has moved out of town and she's got surgery coming up to have half of her thyroid removed due to a tumor. I noticed she was disappearing more and more into the game. I was having to cook dinner for the kids and I every night, and tend to them 90%. She was also staying up late and leaving me to get them to bed. We have a two year-old daughter and an eight year-old son from a previous, brief relationship of hers. I have been in his life for five years now and have always treated him every bit like my own.

A few times I went to sit down next to her on the couch, as that has been the only way I can really get any kind of attention from her lately and I started noticing things that made me uncomfortable. In one situation, her little character in the game, and another guy's character were sitting in the bed of her characters house. I was like, ummm, what is that? You don't need to be doing that. She claimed they were just goofing around and like a fool I dropped it. 

Flash forward a few days, I come home and have decided to try playing the game with her a bit more so that we can at least be together that way. We have some fun together and she seemed very excited about my involvement. After we stop though, my son mentions to me that he saw mommy and this guy she's always hanging out with sitting in her character's bed together. I decided enough was enough at that point and told her she really needed to start telling me what was going on. After some coaxing, she started to reveal that the guy was just her "pretend boyfriend" in the game, and that all she's ever done in there with people is flirt, though it may be somewhat inappropriate at times. She said she would never ever cybersex anyone or anything and that that was crazy.

I was bothered and told her it was time to quit the game and drop the people in it as it's messing up our marriage, and she is clearly deeply addicted. She dragged her feet hard about it, saying they are the best friends she's ever had. That started to piss me off and we got into a few arguments about it. Finally she agreed to let it go though and deleted her character Friday, after dragging it out and having a big mourning party with her friends. During the course of that weekend though, she seemed to finally agree to be willing to let it go, though she was mopey and agitated with me still about it. When I left Monday morning for work, I told her not to be tempted to get back on there and she agreed she wouldn't.

An hour after I was at work, I decided to have a look at an alternate character I knew she had that she had tried to change the name of. Sure enough, she was online and I could see that she was in the same location as her buddies. I went and called her and asked what the hell she was doing and how could she just lie to me like that? I told her I can't be with someone who is just going to lie to my face and that she is addicted to that s***. She told me she had only popped on to get a few people's email addresses. I did some searching that day, and managed to find some chat logs that were out on the Internet from the game that she was involved with. In one of them she was being excessively flirty with a guy, and in another, clearly having a private chat with a man which I told her I didn't want her doing and she had always reassured me she would never. 

We were going back and forth the rest of the day through email and text, with me pointing out to her some of the things I had found online. I told her I don't see how I could stay with someone who continued to lie to me like that. I hadn't been able to work since all of this started happening and my boss noticed and asked me what was going on. Towards the end of the work day, I decided to look again at her character and she was back on there, playing away with her friends. I again asked her what the hell she was doing throwing our marriage away for a game and she again got indignant.

When I got home that night, after she got back from church (vacation bible school) with the kids, I decided to pull her in the other room and talk with her. I told her I was sorry about any issues we've had in the marriage. My wife has undergone some severe sexual trauma in her life, from being molested when she was a child, to being raped by her fiance when she was 19, and the damage has been something we've been struggling with all of our relationship. There have been times she's trigged during sex that I haven't realized, even though we've talked with our therapist how she has to communicate it to me or I won't know. Well three weeks prior to all this, it had happened and she didn't tell me. She was mad at me for days about it, despite my reassuring her I wouldn't knowingly hurt her and she agreed she was gonna let me know. But still, I had resolved to be way more cautious going forward and either let her approach me for intimacy, even though that could be weeks or months a spell, or carefully walk her through it to make sure she was uncomfortable, which I had. We haven't been together in nearly a month because I've had to back off because she was getting uncomfortable.

I also told her I couldn't try to save this marriage by myself and that I needed her to work on it too. She assured me she would be honest with me from now on and work on her part too...

That Tuesday, when I had got home from work, she was again away with the kids. We seemed to have had a good day that day and I didn't see her logged into her game. Still, something felt wrong about this whole thing, so I decided to check one of her email accounts which I've always had the means to do. In it, I found a picture sent from her phone that day, of her standing in our bathroom mirror with her shirt open and her bra exposed, with a wine bottle nestled between her breasts. I knew immediately that wasn't intended for me.

She texted me on her way home asking how I was, and I told her I knew. She tried to deny anything was up, but I told her I found the picture and knew about him (even though I didn't really). We went outside to talk, and she started confessing after some coaxing. I figured out who the guy was as I knew his characters name and noticed he was added to her Facebook friends list and gmail contacts. He's a married 46 year-old guy (my wife is going to be 32 next month and I'm 34) with 4 kids, and it turns out they had been having an emotional and...cyber sex affair for the last month. She had even been masturbating with him, on our bed, during periods when she had put our daughter down for a nap.

She seemed genuinely sorrowful for what she had done when she confessed, and said when she said she was gonna drop everything the night before, she was still angry. She claims she tried to tell him they just had to be friends that day, but they got to talking and he convinced her to send a picture. 

My world was flipped completely upside down and I went immediately into a state of shock. I told her she had to drop all contact with him, delete that last character, and be done with everyone on there. She agreed. I also told her I was writing his wife, who also plays the game with them, to tell her what he was doing with my wife, and I did. The wife didn't believe me though. She even messaged my wife to check and see if she was ok. I also had a message from the guy to my character in the game, explaining how I should let my wife go back to playing it, that while she was flirty at times, he had never seen her do anything inappropriate. I wrote him giving him a piece of my mind and told him he was lucky he was in another state. He never wrote back.

That night, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. I had broke down and taken to smoking again since this started (I haven't for over a year now) and chain smoked through the evening. I also stayed up getting into all her email accounts and Facebook, and found a document she had written in preparation for her "session" with him, in which she described all kinds of sick stuff no one wants to read their wife telling another man, including describing in great detail giving him oral, wanting and loving his *** in her mouth, before climbing up and whispering, "I love you."

She woke up to tell me to come to bed, and I showed her what I had found, along with the picture she had taken up on my computer monitor. She claimed it was basically just erotica and has since argued that it was just a fantasy he had asked her to write, even though it was shared with him while they were both MBing. I guess she wanted to leave room for a bit of cut and paste, hands free action. She also claims she never told him the "I love you part."

The next day, I was an emotional, tired, starved mess. I didn't know what the hell was real and wasn't anymore. She woke up angry that I had sad up getting into her email accounts. I told her I didn't want to be like this, I didn't want to have my trust completely broken, but still she persisted in pouting about it. When she got up again, I asked her if she had really removed everyone from her Facebook and email contacts from the game and she claims she had. When I looked into her FB account, I did see where she had messaged the guy saying, I'm sorry, but it's over. She also still had one lady on there who had written me a scathing message in the game about how I can't keep her from having friends and enjoying life, how wrong I was to take her from her friends there. I told her I just found out she was having an affair and she told me I was delusional and was responsible for the problems in our marriage. I then told her I had found a note she had messaged to another man professing her love for him (she's married) that my wife had from her and her friend laughing behind the ladies back. This was before her and the woman had become close friends. I told her she needed to get off her high horse about how to act in a marriage or I would be sending it to her husband. That shut her up.

Still, it was that woman my wife said she wanted to keep on her friends list. I told her she was part of the poison on our marriage and had no morals, and had kicked me when I was down and needed to go. Someone who behaves that way to someone's spouse and makes excuses for affairs has no business being called a friend. She dragged her feet about it, and I decided enough was enough and started packing up a suitcase to go stay with my parents. I absolutely broke my heart because my son started crying when I said I'm leaving and I couldn't stop bawling about the thought of losing him. My daughter is too young to know I was leaving, but she kept asking me, "what's wrong daddy? Why you cry?"

My wife begged me not to go, at least for the children and I told her they were the only thing I was trying to hang on to so hard for in the first place and continued to leave.

That night she dropped them off to church, after confessing to a dear friend of ours and a good woman what she had done. She said they had prayed about it, and she wanted to meet with me to talk about things, that she was willing to do whatever it took to get me back. I told her I was still working through things and that I couldn't meet up with her, but I would see her when I went to visit the kids the next evening. When I did, she was trying to be apologetic and answered my detailed questions about what had happened, but seemed a little too comfortable with the idea that we were already putting it behind us, so I decided to let her know I would be going back to my parents.

Again she contacted me and seemed willing to reconcile, so Friday I decided to come home and stay. I was still very confused. I wanted her to comfort me...sexually, which sickened me. At least I wanted her to hold me while I layed there imagining everything she had said to him and done running throuhg a loop in my mind, but she didn't. She just turned her back to me and left me laying there. After a while of getting frustrated, I figured I could at least look at her ass while taking care of myself since that's probably the only reconnecting comfort I was gonna get and tried to pull down her sweat pants before she went to sleep, and she spun on me and got angry. At first I got indignant, because it seemed like she was denying me even that small comfort, that her body and sexuality were only for him now, so I got upset. She told me I had just made her feel uncomfortable, that she didn't know what I was going to do so I reassured her I was sorry and I wouldn't do something like that. 

The next day she went out to help her parents finish cleaning their old house, and I asked her what her password was to her laptop, since she kept telling me the wrong one everytime I had asked before. She finally told me, and I decided to install a keylogger. When she got home, she immediately noticed and called me out in front of her mother saying that was a violation of privacy and I should have discussed it with her first. I again pointed out that I didn't want to be this paranoid freak, but I don't know what to believe anymore. If I told her I was putting it on there, she wouldn't do her normal things. She also threw in my face how I had made her uncomfortable the night before, and how I had hurt her too with things like screaming at her she was being evil to me in front of the kids when this all started to happen (I didn't scream, I raised my voice SLIGHTLY). I told her I'm not justifying my actions, that I'm a freakin' mess and emotionally confused, but that those things don't even begin to compare to what she had done.

We had a meeting with our therapist that day, and she kept on being stand-offish all the way up to it. I explained everything in the therapists office up to the keylogger situation and she seperated us with me sitting with her first. The first thing she said was that my wife needed to accept responsibility for what she had done. She also asked me what I was thinking I was going to as far as continuing the marriage, which I told her I just didn't know. My mind says get the hell out, you're not strong enough to deal with this, but my heart says I don't want to abandon the poor little girl after everything she's been through in her life. Plus I don't want to do that to my kids.

We ended up going out on a date later that night since it was parent's night out at my church. We had a good time...considering, there was even some laughter. I kept triggering through it though and remembering what happened. Later that night though, after a conversation with my mother, I realized she was getting way too comfortable already. Plus I realized I was frustrated and irritated that her efforts to get me back have been so shallow and that I've pretty much had to have my fishing line in the water and fish for apologies or even hugs. The apologies have been simple, "I'm sorries" too, which aren't cutting it for me. I told her I need to hear what it is she's sorry about as those two words are too easy to say.

To be honest, I don't know what I'm doing anymore. My love fore her is all messed up, I don't trust her anymore. I don't see her the same at all. Her morals are clearly way different than mine. I loved her in part because I had refound my faith in God when we meet, and was moved by her convictions and similar outlook. That's all been thrown away considering she could walk into church knowing what she was doing. I feel like she's already expecting me to get back to normal and work on being a better husband, but I don't feel like doing that **** right now. I am a good man, and have worked hard to be a good friend and spouse. I'm even a decent looking guy. I've given up my own comforts to help her with her issues, and this is what I get. I truly have nothing to hold onto anymore in a relationship with her. There's a part of me that feels like if she's willing to her work her butt off to convince me she loves me and wants to fix this marriage, that I could try to stay, but I just don't know that that will ever be her style, even considering all this.

Sorry that was so long, but I guess I had a lot to get off my chest. Any advice is much appreciated.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Still Knight,

You have found the right place for advice.

I think you are stronger than you think you are.

Your wife has deep issues and should never be allowed on a computer for a long time.

Online games or facebook should never be on her agenda ever again.


And you are correct that you are not in R until she understands why she cheated and what she needs to do so she never cheats again.

You guys have a lot of work to do and far wiser people will offer more advice soon.

HM64

You need to set strong boundaries for her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It always puzzles me when people read the threads here and still have no idea what to do.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

First off is total transparency. Passwords to everything. Phones, emails, texts etc.

How did she find the keylogger? Keylog again but do it right.

You did great leavinng her but folded when yuou went back.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

And you need to let her know tthe marriage is on strict probation and you have NOT decided to reconcile at this point.

See your MD and start working out to rlieve your mind and even out your emotions.

Read No More Mister Nice Guy and most of all Married Man Sex Life.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm sorry that this has happened to you. To be honest, its hard to see real evidence of remorse in her responses. I'm talking about the kind of remorse that gives a person the willpower to overcome an addiction.

My advice? You've given her several chances, and it hasn't even come close to working. You sound like divorce is clearly an option if she can't get through this. I think its time to let her become a woman, instead of carrying her and making things easy. Tell her that you will be starting divorce proceedings, if you seriously can do it. Its up to her to stop it. She should start to try to get a job, because she clearly has too much time on her hands. The only way that you'll stop the proceedings is through a limited time with no internet connection, and no smartphone capability. After that, you need full transparency. And you need real change. Something to occupy her time, but this something should build the a mutually beneficial relationship, like a longer work schedule. And therapy. 

If the divorce card is too extreme for you, then your work might be much more challenging. Spiritually, it really seems that she is no longer in committed to the marriage. She's not really willing to give up this affair when she still feels that her right to privacy, despite the emotional affair, is more sacred than her vow to your marriage. She should be willing to cut the cable, agree to transparency, and much more, at least. Sadly, I wouldn't discount the likelihood that there is far more to this affair than you know. It takes a lot of courage to meet people in a way that is so blatantly dishonest, as she did, so the decision to cheat physically has likely occurred a long time ago. Explains why she won't let YOU touch her, because she is committed to another emotionally, and maybe more.

In the end, seperate yourself from the woman that you know her to be deep down. Keep that as a long term hope, to find that woman within her again. There may be hope to find that woman again, but your approach has to be very deliberate, given how deeply she has fallen into this new fantasy affair.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Still Knight said:


> Still, it was that woman my wife said she wanted to keep on her friends list. I told her she was part of the poison on our marriage and had no morals, and had kicked me when I was down and needed to go. Someone who behaves that way to someone's spouse and makes excuses for affairs has no business being called a friend.


_You're right - H and I agreed to drop all 'friends' who worked against our marriage. Real damage can result from too much of the wrong input._



Still Knight said:


> Again she contacted me and seemed willing to reconcile, so Friday I decided to come home and stay. I was still very confused.


_She was willing to reconcile? Or willing to do what it takes to earn your trust again? Has she shown you real remorse? Other than remorse about getting caught?_



Still Knight said:


> tried to pull down her sweat pants before she went to sleep, and she spun on me and got angry.


_I don't know what your normal sex life was before the betrayals, but this encounter doesn't seem very respectful. She has disrespected you enormously - no doubt. That doesn't mean you should engage in disrespectful behavior. I'm certain it's nearly impossible to think of her sexuality in a respectful way now, but until you can, I think you should consider a hiatus. You don't want to start on your list of regrets..._



Still Knight said:


> saying that was a violation of privacy and I should have discussed it with her first.


HUGE red flag! A violation of HER privacy??? This is like a neon sign glaring 'NO REMORSE'!



Still Knight said:


> We had a meeting with our therapist that day, and she kept on being stand-offish all the way up to it.


Again - no remorse.



Still Knight said:


> Later that night though, after a conversation with my mother, I realized she was getting way too comfortable already. Plus I realized I was frustrated and irritated that her efforts to get me back have been so shallow and that I've pretty much had to have my fishing line in the water and fish for apologies or even hugs. The apologies have been simple, "I'm sorries" too, which aren't cutting it for me. I told her I need to hear what it is she's sorry about as those two words are too easy to say.


You seem concerned that she stay 'uncomfortable' and you have a desire to keep her on edge. Be careful when generalizing.

You're concerned she believes she can sweep this all under the rug without acknowledging the pain she's caused you and taking any actions to rebuild your trust and be willing to provide reassurance to you in the meantime. The standoffishness, lack of apologies, hugs, intimacy, and demanding her rights all imply a lack of sincerity and remorse. 
 


Still Knight said:


> My love fore her is all messed up, I don't trust her anymore. I don't see her the same at all. Her morals are clearly way different than mine.
> 
> There's a part of me that feels like if she's willing to her work her butt off to convince me she loves me and wants to fix this marriage, that I could try to stay, but I just don't know that that will ever be her style, even considering all this.


If your marriage survives this, it will never be the same. However if it survives, it will likely be stronger.

But, it takes two. Your wife has strayed from your shared vision - even including your faith. She is demonstrating no willingness to fix what she's broken or to love you as her husband.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

She ain't remorseful. She ain't putting the work on it. She expects you to get over it. Dump her. Your kids will cope. Plenty of divorced parents out there.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Janie said:


> If your marriage survives this, it will never be the same.


That's all I was going to say. Forget what you had. It'll never be the same again. Mine is different in very bad ways. 3 years later and no remorse from my wife. Continued rug-sweeping. If that continues with your wife, just get out. You're young. You can start over. I'm old. I'm done. I'm miserable.

You don't get a do-over in life. One shot. Don't waste it with someone who doesn't love you enough to help you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

First thing you should off the Internet at your home, that will prevent her from rejoining the game.

She isn't remorseful intact the fact that her privacy (really ability to have secrets) is so much more important to her than the marriage speaks volumes. It says that she is very likely using some other way of continuing contact with the OM.

I recommend doing everything you can to isolate her from access to the OM as much as you can. The idea is to detox her from ongoing contact. To do this cut off Internet to her, cut off her ability to use a smart phone since you can run video Skype on them. You should also expose her affair to her parents and any friends she might turn to for help in contacting the OM.

Watch out for her going to the library and using the computers there.

She won't like it, not one bit. Shell call you controlling - your response to this needs to be to ask her how you should deal with her continued contact with the 
OM and the ongoing lies about NC. Your not trying to control her, your trying to help her get space from him.

She must give you compete transparency to online stuff. Heck even offer to share your email passwords in return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Happyman64: Thanks a lot.

Chapparal: I have actually gotten a lot of good advice I've tried to keep in mind from here. I think it's actually some of your posts that really drove some points home and have helped me get some bearing here, including being comfortable with insisting to her that I have access to all of her email addresses, Facebook account, and cell phone. She agreed completely at first, but has since tried saying we should be able to look through it together, and all I have to do is ask. I told her that kind of defeats the point if she knows she's got all day while I'm at work to do whatever she wants without me being able to check randomly at any time. She tried acting offended about that, along with the keylogger thing, but I've tried to stand my ground whether she respects my reasoning or not. She insists she won't be up to anything anymore, but I don't think she quite grasps that all my trust in anything she says anymore has been completely dissolved.

I also forwarded a post you had written that was something like a guide for the WS to know how to deal with the BS. She claims she has read it several times and has tried to commit it to heart. 

No clue how she found the keylogger. I thought I erased all tracks, deleted all the unneeded files but must have left one thing behind. It may be that she was able to see that particular one in tasks, or used spyware to find it. She said having it on there might help keep her honest if I had told her I was going to in the first place, but I caved and deleted it when she found out.

Halien: Part of me feels like I could embrace the possibly of a divorce...the logical side, and my heart tells me to try and work through it. I think my uncertainty there would put me in too weak of a position right now to threaten it all seriousness with it, but it's still in the back of my mind as an option. I have already promised myself if I do reconcile, and she does anything like this again, I will leave no matter what. Life is too short for this horrible mess. I've already accepted more disappoints than I normally would because of her history. I probably should have mentioned this wasn't even her first online affair...she had an EA with a man when we were still dating that I busted her on. Part of what made this so bad is it came up in therapy, and even though it's been 4 years, it was like reliving the trauma all over again and I knew she saw what just facing it with the therapist did to me.

I do take some small comfort in the fact I don't think she would have been able to have a physical affair at any point, though that's not at all impossible. I always know who she's with, and where she's going on on the rare occasions she does. Most of the time she's usually with her mom and the kids. Probably the only non-work time she's really been gone without any of them for any length of time has been when she took that trip to meet her friend, and she came back the same day she left. She assured me she wasn't involved with any of their stuff...but it's not like she couldn't have lied, though I truly don't think so.

Good advice, and I truly hope the woman I fell in love with, the one who seemed to have strong moral convictions, is still in there. Otherwise there truly is no point. 

Our marriage counselor suggested I write out a list of terms I need in order to reconcile. I told her I said a few of them, but she insisted I actually put it in writing, so that's what I'll be doing today.

One of my terms is that she needs to work more often. She claims this all started, her addiction to the game, because she was so lonely and needed a social outlet. It was never my idea for her to be a stay-at-home mom or to homeschool her son. That was a decision my MIL and her had made, basically with little input with me. I just tried to support it and go along with it, but clearly that just leaves her with way too much time on her hands and frankly, causes us undue stress due to having tight finances all the time. So sound advice there too.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> She won't like it, not one bit. Shell call you controlling - your response to this needs to be to ask her how you should deal with her continued contact with the
> OM and the ongoing lies about NC. Your not trying to control her, your trying to help her get space from him.
> 
> She must give you compete transparency to online stuff. Heck even offer to share your email passwords in return.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with Shaggy. 

But... why do it at all if she's not completely willing to offer it all up? You can't legislate morals. If she is determined to exercise her 'freedom' {and you can bet she will if she's screaming violation of her rights}, she will find a way.

What is in her heart matters much more than impenetrable surveillance.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I take it y'all are either Baptist or some kind of non-denominational Evangelicals, so I will discuss from that angle.

You don't have Biblical grounds for divorce. Yet. But, you probably will eventually.

I only have a minor in Psych, so I hate to mention it, but was she molested by a family member when she was a kid?

Was your wife married previously or did the stork bring her son by special delivery?

How often do you yourself get hit on by women IRL? Do they come up and talk to you? How about at work? Any unsolicited flirting going on? How do you rank your attractiveness on a scale of 1-10?

You've made me miss Sunday School.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Still Knight said:


> Part of me feels like I could embrace the possibly of a divorce...the logical side, and my heart tells me to try and work through it. I think my uncertainty there would put me in too weak of a position right now to threaten it all seriousness with it, but it's still in the back of my mind as an option. I have already promised myself if I do reconcile, and she does anything like this again, I will leave no matter what. Life is too short for this horrible mess. I've already accepted more disappoints than I normally would because of her history.


Knight,

What is your current living situation? You are both in the same house? Sleeping in same bed?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think she found the keylogger because she was looking for it. And she was looking for it as a precaution before accessing her secret accounts to contact the OM. There are cheater support websites giving guidance on how to avoid bring caught by your BS. I think she's read some of that advice and is taking counter measures.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams


Totally agrees with it. If they both masturbate and moan just feet away from each other how do you define it? Webcams only make it with some distance.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Once it goes to sexual satisfaction there is no way to just call it an emotional affair. The fact that there is no actually physical contact means little to me.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Here we have just a reduction issue. Whe need to manage the full spectrum of possible cheating so we decide some labels and acronims. How can call "emotional" an affair which is purely? sexual satisfaction, long distance or not? Then we also have "emotional" affairs which are not romantic either but clearly meet some emotional needs. Then we have PA, "just sex" afair with completely negate the obvious emotional aspect of sex (otherwise toys make the deal too). Does holding hands makes an EA a PA?

Well we have to name EA when there's not physical contact.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> Halien: Part of me feels like I could embrace the possibly of a divorce...the logical side, and my heart tells me to try and work through it. I think my uncertainty there would put me in too weak of a position right now to threaten it all seriousness with it, but it's still in the back of my mind as an option. I have already promised myself if I do reconcile, and she does anything like this again, I will leave no matter what. Life is too short for this horrible mess. I've already accepted more disappoints than I normally would because of her history. I probably should have mentioned this wasn't even her first online affair...she had an EA with a man when we were still dating that I busted her on. Part of what made this so bad is it came up in therapy, and even though it's been 4 years, it was like reliving the trauma all over again and I knew she saw what just facing it with the therapist did to me.
> 
> I do take some small comfort in the fact I don't think she would have been able to have a physical affair at any point, though that's not at all impossible. I always know who she's with, and where she's going on on the rare occasions she does. Most of the time she's usually with her mom and the kids. Probably the only non-work time she's really been gone without any of them for any length of time has been when she took that trip to meet her friend, and she came back the same day she left. She assured me she wasn't involved with any of their stuff...but it's not like she couldn't have lied, though I truly don't think so.
> 
> ...


As you consider terms for reconciliation, my point was that it is important to recognize that you are working from a position of compromise as long as she is free to call your demands an invasion of her privacy. Not saying that I disagree with the approach, but just that you have to recognize the position you may be in. In her mind, if she was putting her best foot forward into keeping the marriage, trying to keep you, whether its driven by remorse or her love for you, her only concern will be making the changes it takes to love you. This isn't the dynamic that you will work with, though, at least for now. Intellectually, she knows that her affair behaviors are wrong, but her heart is mixed.

Some of the answers are things that only you can determine, based on your relationship and how you relate to each other when it comes to attraction. Begging, pleading, or bargaining might be the tools that you will be tempted to use in desperation. Never lose sight of the fact that the other man, or men, are not begging, pleading or bargaining, and that this is why she is risking everything for them. That and the fact that she knows you will be there, as long as she meets you in the middle.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

> _She was willing to reconcile? Or willing to do what it takes to earn your trust again? Has she shown you real remorse? Other than remorse about getting caught?_


I think maybe? She internalizes a lot of stuff and has said as much, but she has said she was sorry many times. I think she does genuinely feel guilty and was afraid of losing me when she realized it was a possibility. Our therapist mentioned that sometimes the denial that they're doing anything wrong is so strong with people, that they don't fully realize the impact of how wrong what they've been doing is until it's in their face.




> _I don't know what your normal sex life was before the betrayals, but this encounter doesn't seem very respectful. She has disrespected you enormously - no doubt. That doesn't mean you should engage in disrespectful behavior. I'm certain it's nearly impossible to think of her sexuality in a respectful way now, but until you can, I think you should consider a hiatus. You don't want to start on your list of regrets..._


No, you're totally right, it wasn't. And you're right, I am having trouble even thinking of her at all respectfully in that area. A hiatus is certainly probably a good idea, I just wish there wasn't this stupid side to me that just desired to connect with her physically again so badly. I kept thinking, oh it's all only for him huh? I can't even look at you anymore? I had tried to actually sleep on the couch because I realized when we were first laying together that she wasn't going to comfort me, aside from reaching back with her back to me to hold my hand when I asked for it, but she convinced me to come back to bed after an hour or so and that's when the emotions starting going haywire again. I just kept picturing a nightmare movie of her laying there pleasuring herself to him.




> HUGE red flag! A violation of HER privacy??? This is like a neon sign glaring 'NO REMORSE'!


That's what it felt like to me too.



> You seem concerned that she stay 'uncomfortable' and you have a desire to keep her on edge. Be careful when generalizing.
> 
> You're concerned she believes she can sweep this all under the rug without acknowledging the pain she's caused you and taking any actions to rebuild your trust and be willing to provide reassurance to you in the meantime. The standoffishness, lack of apologies, hugs, intimacy, and demanding her rights all imply a lack of sincerity and remorse.
> 
> ...


She has hugged me and apologized with a basic, "I'm sorry" many times over, but it just feels like I have to prompt everything, and that makes it feel less sincere. If someone has to ask you to do something, rather than you just doing it because you know it's the right thing and they might need it, it's just a lot different.

To answer your question further down: I've alternated between the couch and the bed the last couple of nights. I realized I couldn't stay in there last night, so spent most of it in the bed until being an idiot and wanting solace with her at which point I climbed in there. Then the mixed up feelings started getting the better of me and I ended up kind of expressing my hurt over everything again.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

MrK said:


> That's all I was going to say. Forget what you had. It'll never be the same again. Mine is different in very bad ways. 3 years later and no remorse from my wife. Continued rug-sweeping. If that continues with your wife, just get out. You're young. You can start over. I'm old. I'm done. I'm miserable.
> 
> You don't get a do-over in life. One shot. Don't waste it with someone who doesn't love you enough to help you.


Sorry you're having to feel that way Mrk. I know what you're saying...and I've told myself this is the last time. If it happens again, I'm gone, no ifs and or buts. Part of me almost knows she will, but another part hopes she realizes this time she pushed the marriage off a cliff and it's only hanging on with one hand at this point.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> First thing you should off the Internet at your home, that will prevent her from rejoining the game.
> 
> She isn't remorseful intact the fact that her privacy (really ability to have secrets) is so much more important to her than the marriage speaks volumes. It says that she is very likely using some other way of continuing contact with the OM.
> 
> ...


I think...hopefully, that she truly has cut off contact with the OM. I did read a message where she told him, "sorry, it's over." before deleting him from her Facebook and email account. The fact I told his wife and let him know where he stood with me may also be enough to keep him from pushing things any further, but who knows at this point.

I'll definitely keep in mind the other things you mentioned. The email/account password stuff is a definite. I've already put it in the reconcilation agreement I just wrote a bit ago.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I take it y'all are either Baptist or some kind of non-denominational Evangelicals, so I will discuss from that angle.
> 
> You don't have Biblical grounds for divorce. Yet. But, you probably will eventually.
> 
> ...


We're pretty much non-denominational. She wasn't molested by a family member, but by a close friend of the family...an 18 year-old guy who was living with them. Unfortunately her brother and sister also had the same happen. She was only 4 at the time.

My wife had her previous child with a man she had only been dating a few months. He accused her of it being another man's child and bailed on her, though it's extremely obvious my son is indeed, biologically his. He ended up skulking around when he was still a baby, dragged her to court custody, for getting child support from him. That whole thing is a mess in itself.

I get at least looks my fair share, but don't engage other women in anything further except for one time... 

I should have mentioned this in my earlier post, but I confessed to my wife after I got her to tell me everything that there was an incident where I kissed a woman at work a few months ago. I'm not excusing it, but it meant nothing and I realized the second it happened that it was wrong and not something I would ever do again. I told the woman that I couldn't be intimate with her like that and she has respected my feelings. I've been honest about that with anyone I've told the rest of this story too so far, including my own family, but forgot to put it in my earlier message. All it did was made me realize I could never cheat on her further or again, no matter how bad I'm hurting for physical attention.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I should clarify, and not to defend her, but they weren't using a webcam that I know of though the thought sickens me. In her chat thing on Google, it did have a little green camera. All the sex stuff she claims was done within her game, the chat didn't come until after I made her quit it, and she claims they didn't cyber after that, but continued the intimate talking after she gave up her brief "resolve" to try to keep it only "friendly". Yeah right. How you go from that to posing in the mirror for a picture with your bra exposed it was still baffles me.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

costa200 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Once it goes to sexual satisfaction there is no way to just call it an emotional affair. The fact that there is no actually physical contact means little to me.


That's my feeling too. It was both emotional and very much sexual. And the premeditation to it is part of what bothered me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> Sorry you're having to feel that way Mrk. I know what you're saying...and I've told myself this is the last time. If it happens again, I'm gone, no ifs and or buts. Part of me almost knows she will, but another part hopes she realizes this time she pushed the marriage off a cliff and it's only hanging on with one hand at this point.


You are giving her the impression you can't live with out her. The message you need to be sending is you have one foot out the door. DO NOY ASK HER TO HOLD YOUR HAND OR COMFORT YOU! No matter how you feel, you have to portray strength and resolve. If you can't keep it together remove yourself to another room. She has to think its up to her to win you back. You HAVE to put it all on the line. Show no anger, only determinmation. Else she willl see you as weak and her other friends as stong and manly.

If you have to cry, make absolutely sure she does not see it or know it.


Down load Married Man Sex Life and you will find the MAP plan to attract your wife back to you, Sooner the better. 

Amazon is your friend.

Study the 180, and do a mild version of it for now until you get the MAP working.

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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gosh. You are right! Never thought of it that way, but yes. It IS a PA!


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. I am sorry to hear your story OP, its not your fault but why did you not throw the damn computer out at the realization that this computer became an addiction affecting your marriage, your family? It sounds like she took it a bit as if it was nothing, the typical deminuizing. Stop smoking, you worked hardthe past year. This is the time when it counts not to backtrack into your previously defeated addictions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## docj (Jun 18, 2009)

Im sorry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

She has a form of Internet addiction, and your current counselor just isn't up to the task, IMO (correct me if I'm wrong).

You should look for someone specialized. In our metro area, we have porn / sex addictions therapists, and they are well educated about infidelity for obvious reasons. From what I've read, in 2012, porn addiction is now almost always a subset of point and click Internet addiction or compulsion. So that is where I would start. These people are also experienced in dealing with patients who have damaged sexual histories, because...well, people who have serious sex addiction issues often have that type of background to begin with.

They are probably going to encourage her to join some type of 12-step or similar program to get her off the addiction. It is clearly very strong in her, as she isn't able to stop even when a more savvy person would manage the willpower to hide it from you even for just a little bit.

I'm sure her abuse plays a role as well, in terms of causing her to seek out these dangerous / titillating experiences--could be because she requires affirmation and validation of her attractiveness to boost her self esteem, that is something often seen in these situations, although it's not like human beings are carbon copies of one another.

I would pull the plug on Internet and phone. The truth is that someone who is an addict like that is probably never going to be able to be around it without engaging in it. It's just too damn tempting. And while I realize that sounds tough, this compulsion of hers is likely a cancer that is preventing her from doing other tasks to keep up the rest of her life, as she throws all her energy toward her gaming and her online pals.

Again, the specialists are going to have very specific ideas on handling the computer / phone side of things and how to wean her off it. If she will not agree to attend the specialized counseling and support group meetings this is likely going to entail, you may have to file for divorce in order to get through to her. Remember that divorce can be withdrawn and delayed, you are not divorced just because you file the piece of paper. But it is generally a last-ditch wakeup call that pulls some unrepentant spouses back from the brink to turn the marriage around.

One last thing, though: YOU cannot fix a damaged person. They have to want to fix themselves. You don't have enough love in the world to fill that hole in their heart. They have to believe they are loveable, and no human being can grant that to them.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> At least I wanted her to hold me while I layed there imagining everything she had said to him and done running throuhg a loop in my mind, but she didn't. *She just turned her back to me and left me laying there. After a while of getting frustrated, I figured I could at least look at her ass while taking care of myself since that's probably the only reconnecting comfort I was gonna get and tried to pull down her sweat pants before she went to sleep, and she spun on me and got angry. *At first I got indignant, because it seemed like she was denying me even that small comfort, that her body and sexuality were only for him now, so I got upset. She told me I had just made her feel uncomfortable, that she didn't know what I was going to do so I reassured her I was sorry and I wouldn't do something like that. .




^^^^^^^^
This part of the entire story has me angry.
WTF? 
This woman was having heavy cybersex with another man online,and she is so deranged and SELFISH , the she REFUSES to even fulfill the BASIC SEXUAL NEEDS OF HER HUSBAND?
Just imagine to satisfy his needs he has to look at her butt and masturbate,and suddenly she * triggers * because of that?
Man, sorry to put it this way,but you are the typical " nice guy" and your wife is using her " illness" as a pass to take advantage of you.
She is walking all over you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

No More Mr Nice Guy

Amazon.com: no more mr nice guy


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Here's some questions I have for you:

can you come up with a list of ways you enable her compulsion / addiction. Sorry if you've answered some of these already via your posts

does she earn her own income?

who pays for her phone / Internet?

what does she do with her spare time that she can devote it to this game?

how is she neglecting other areas of her life--does she clean the house? (I have a hard time picturing her employed); does she cook? grocery shop? do laundry?

who cares for the children, especially the two year old, while she does this? Is he parked in front of the tv, or farmed out to relatives?

I assume you were watching the children when she went out to meet these people? Does she go out on her own any more now that you've caught her? who babysits when she does that?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Here's some questions I have for you:
> 
> can you come up with a list of ways you enable her compulsion / addiction. Sorry if you've answered some of these already via your posts
> 
> ...




:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Great place to start.....
And DON'T LET HER PULL THAT " ISSUES " STUNT ON YOU AGAIN!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your urges to have sex with her are perfectly normal. It's called hysterical bonding and you reclaiming her.

Now if she was done with the affair she should be eager to join you in it. The fact she isn't is a huge red flag that the affair is still on.

Stop sleeping on the couch. She goes there, not you. It's your bed and she is the one who is in the affair.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> We're pretty much non-denominational. She wasn't molested by a family member, but by a close friend of the family...an 18 year-old guy who was living with them. Unfortunately her brother and sister also had the same happen. She was only 4 at the time.


My wife had at least one such experience (she's a big time minimizer) within her extended family when she was quite young. One thing that didn't happen in our case, probably because the abusers did not live in her house, that I was advised about was that some wives who are CSA victims will go cold sexually on the H a few years into the marriage and look for outside validation. I'm sure your counselor has probably discussed that with you.



Still Knight said:


> My wife had her previous child with a man she had only been dating a few months. He accused her of it being another man's child and bailed on her, though it's extremely obvious my son is indeed, biologically his. He ended up skulking around when he was still a baby, dragged her to court custody, for getting child support from him. That whole thing is a mess in itself.


(This is going to be somewhat brutal)
I'm sorry to be the arschloch, here, but that's what I was afraid of. Unfortunately, it's highly likely that she's got you compartmentalized as a "beta-provider" for her and her son and what you're seeing from her now, i.e. no remorse, is the real her and the real relationship dynamic. You were probably targeted as a good Christian meal ticket for a Born-again Slvt. The churches are full of them these days. Raised Christian, get off to college and bang, bang, bang, etc. After they get tired of pulling the Alpha bad-boy train they decide to try the Christian guys they previously rejected as boring. This is almost a standard issue plot that could be handed out with the church bulletin on Sunday morning. See: Christian Men's Defense Network.



Still Knight said:


> I get at least looks my fair share, but don't engage other women in anything further except for one time...


Well, that's not good. Women used to ambush me under the mistletoe every Christmas at work and even at parties (one of my wife's best friends french kissed me right in front of my wife). That kind of stuff has served me fairly well over the years, because my wife knows that she can be replaced (sexually at any rate) almost instantly. Your wife has beta-ized you and is not sexually attracted to you. You are the worker drone not worthy to mate with the queen bee. Chap says to read MMSL, download it now and check out the author's blog. The guy is an apostate, but his information about maintaining attraction is quite valid. That book will change your life.

In the meantime, you need to up your sex rank. Change your look (hair and clothes) in a way that she can't mistake. If you're not into bodybuilding take it up. Your goal is a 32" waist and a 46" chest. That will give you proper ratio that almost all women find highly attractive. Go incommunicado from time to time and leave the house without her in the evening. Just take in a movie or see a band, but she doesn't need to know what you're doing let her imagination run wild. This will usually start to build attraction. It's nuts, I know, but that's how they work.

Kill the internet at home. The human race survived just fine without it until a few years back. Getting rid of it won't kill her, but it will kill her affair(s).


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> I probably should have mentioned this wasn't even her first online affair...she had an EA with a man when we were still dating that I busted her on. Part of what made this so bad is it came up in therapy, and even though it's been 4 years, it was like reliving the trauma all over again.


I would give you my normal spiel about handwriting a no contact letter, transparency, etc., except I don't think this is a normal case of infidelity.

You've been married 4-5 years, your wife was doing this to you while you two were dating, now she's at it again, and with such a vengeance.

Your wife seems deeply damaged, much more than no contact and giving up this particular other man is ever going to fix. 

If your wife gets a job, she'll be cheating on you with one of her co-workers. If she had married someone else, she'd be cheating on him. If this other man weren't on this game, she would have found someone else.

It has nothing to do with this particular other man and it has nothing to do with you. The level of lies, the inability to stop for even a day, the ability to blame you when she is so obviously wrong, shows that something mentally is not right with your wife.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

If she was doing it before marriage, and now during marriage, consider her to be a serial cheater, a broken woman requiring decades of therapy. 

You're in your early 30's. Divorce, move on. Stop being the a child sitter for her son. Stop being her fallback. Learn to detach. Be indifferent.

Spend some time figuring out why you're attracted to someone like her.

Find someone more considerate and loyal to you.

The first step is to develop the intention to move on and better yourself.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> This whole situation is so heartbreaking, so humiliating, so embarrassing. I cannot even begin to express my grief and shame over my actions.
> 
> A little over a month ago, I 'met' a man online with whom I seemed to instantly connect. After only talking to him a short time, I confided in him that I was in a very vulnerable place in my marriage, and he listened (er... read?) as I poured out my heartache and anguish. And so began an emotional affair that progressed to explicit sex-chat (via instant message. no webcams or voice programs).
> 
> ...


Still Knight,

I do not think your wife is remorseful at all. In your post, you cited at least a half dozen times that she lied to you about the affair. In her initial post above, she does not mention being deceitful or lying even once. In your wife's second post, in response to the question, "How did your husband 'discover' the affair?," your wife's response also did not contain a single mention of her lying or deceptiveness. You said that she tried to lie and you had to coax it out of her. She makes it sound like you merely mentioned it and she immediately confessed everything. You say she only admitted to it when you showed her the proof that you had. She makes it sound like you told her you had suspicions and she immediately just confessed.

_"How did your husband 'discover' the affair?"_

*My husband suspected and approached me with his suspicions, and I confessed.* 

Your wife states that she went to see a trusted woman from church and confessed everything, but she doesn't say that afterward she continued to purposely give you the incorrect password to her account and resisted giving you the transparency and closure you needed to get over the affair.

Her post appears to me to be for the purpose of her trying to win allies on this forum to help her convince you to take her back.

She has been cold to you emotionally and sexually, but she was not that way with her other man. If I were you, I would be wary that she just was trying to reconcile because of financial reasons.

Cheaters lie. Assume all her words are lies, believe only her actions. Right now, her words and actions contradict. Her words say she is so very, very sorry, but her actions are that she is still cold and uncomforting to you. Believe the actions.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Thank you for the advice and comments everyone. It's a little weird continuing to be open considering my wife knows about my activity on this forum, so I'm not sure how comfortable I am responding directly to things. I can say I have read everything and am taking it all very much into consideration. Thanks.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

She must have a keylogger in place to monitor OP's activities. Maybe she's been hanging out at Cool's or one of the others.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> She must have a keylogger in place to monitor OP's activities. Maybe she's been hanging out at Cool's or one of the others.


Or coached by her gaming friends. I think he told her how to find the keylogger.

And OP doesn't really know who she met up with or which one she did or both. He just knows what a cheater told him.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but she's still on the game.

It's a basic waste of time to discuss anything until she's not only off the game but has, for the time being, no access to the Internet.

That's actually not the usual recommendation for online affairs (usually it's just, get entirely off Facebook if it was an FB affair, for example) but the level of her compulsion and deceit necessitates this before trust can be rebuilt.

And, the physiology of her brain has no chance of getting out of this addiction / compulsion / very bad habit (you pick) while she's still online.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is hellbent in having an affair. I am even suspicious of what happened with her polyamorous friend. Can you verify it?

OP's wife, read the infidelity stories on this forum. The stories are heart breaking. The pain from infidelity is severe and traumatic. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Your wife is hellbent in having an affair. *I am even suspicious of what happened with her polyamorous friend*. Can you verify it?
> 
> OP's wife, read the infidelity stories on this forum. The stories are heart breaking. The pain from infidelity is severe and traumatic. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.


I don't believe this either. OP's wife has lied about the guy even being there, even when confronted with it, until proof was shown, then she said something improbable, that her woman friend was polyamorous and allowed to hook up with others while the woman's husband was not, "so, see, nothing could have happened." Given the way the cheatrer has acted, it makes more sense that OP's wife did get physical with either one or both of these people than if she didn't.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but she's still on the game.
> 
> It's a basic waste of time to discuss anything until she's not only off the game but has, for the time being, no access to the Internet.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. My WS tried to communicate with me via the internet (email/chat) while we were in the same room, as if his world was in the internet and was unable to express himself in the real world. I found it rather bizarre and refused to play. Eventually he learned that "I" was in the real world, and his internet life was apart from that. Sadly he chose his internet life over our relationship and we are now separated.

Being online will always means that a WS has access to those people who will influence the marriage and the BS will always feel the presence of OM/OW as a threat. It becomes a sick game with the WS to think that they can influence a real life spouse through the internet.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> *Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but she's still on the game.*
> 
> It's a basic waste of time to discuss anything until she's not only off the game but has, for the time being, no access to the Internet.
> 
> ...


She will only do what she's absolutely forced to in order to save her marriage, and then only kicking and screaming. If he doesn't ask her to remove herself from the game, she won't do it. Even if she says she's getting off of the game, how will OP know? She's already lied about it once. She could just create another character and start right up. Giving up Internet access? She could just go to any public library. It's hard enough to reconcile when the cheater is willing; this cheater in no way seems willing. So far, she has told any lie she had to in order to get her fix.

_I was bothered and told her it was time to quit the game and drop the people in it as it's messing up our marriage, and she is clearly deeply addicted. *She dragged her feet hard about it*, saying they are the best friends she's ever had. That started to piss me off and we got into a few arguments about it. *Finally she agreed to let it go though and deleted her character Friday, after dragging it out and having a big mourning party with her friends. During the course of that weekend though, she seemed to finally agree to be willing to let it go*, though she was mopey and agitated with me still about it. When I left Monday morning for work, I told her not to be tempted to get back on there and she agreed she wouldn't.

An hour after I was at work, *I decided to have a look at an alternate character I knew she had that she had tried to change the name of. Sure enough, she was online and I could see that she was in the same location as her buddies.* I went and called her and asked what the hell she was doing and how could she just lie to me like that? I told her I can't be with someone who is just going to lie to my face and that she is addicted to that s***. She told me she had only popped on to get a few people's email addresses. I did some searching that day, and managed to find some chat logs that were out on the Internet from the game that she was involved with. In one of them she was being excessively flirty with a guy, and in another, clearly having a private chat with a man which I told her I didn't want her doing and she had always reassured me she would never._


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> And OP doesn't really know who she met up with or which one she did or both. He just knows what a cheater told him.


¡Exactamente!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes, I cannot imagine being married to someone who was addicted to something that is ubiquitously available, legal, and (if she goes to the public library or borrows the devices of others) free. A living nightmare.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Still,

In the other thread, you replied indicating that part of the affair discovery included accusations and guilt over not meeting her needs emotionally. This is common within what I could call an unhealthy, maybe immature outlook on marriage. If the marriage is struggling sexually, your primary responsibility is to look inward, but so is her's. While you, as a husband, should strive to meet her needs, she also has the responsibility to commit her own energy and determination to keep the marriage strong emotionally and sexually. Until she reaches the place where she sees her affair as a symptom of her own shortcomings in building sexual intensity in the marriage, she'll continue to short circuit her own remorse, possibly leaving herself weak for preventing this whole process over again, just as I believe you mentioned happening while you were engaged.

There are two things that should be addressed in reconciliation, in my opinion, if you choose this route. Recovery from this infidelity, but also therapy or an acknowledgement of her own responsibility in fostering a vibrant, strong sexual connection.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Yes, I cannot imagine being married to someone who was addicted to something that is ubiquitously available, legal, and (if she goes to the public library or borrows the devices of others) free. A living nightmare.



Yes, it is very difficult. It's even harder when you are stuck in a contract because you and your spouse (yes, my husband and I) got a paid subscription/annual pass to a game and they won't let you out of the contract early. So, every month, it gets debited. And, it is very hard to keep myself from logging on "just to see how everyone is" because I am paying for this service. I think it was Warlock who pointed out my addiction. My husband tried to do that and I refused to see it. It wasn't until he had his EA that my eyes were opened to what this game has done to us. It's still a struggle to keep from logging on it...but so far, I am staying away. 

So, yes, you are very right about how hard it is living with someone addicted to something like that. It's hard being the addict and admitting it too.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Could anyone fill in an ignorant - which game is it we are discussing? (in this case):scratchhead:


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

From OP's wife: _My husband is devastated and heartbroken, and is vacillating between anger, hurt, numbness, and *desperate clinging*, understandably._ 

This is why she was so willing to continue to cheat and lie about it after the initial suspicions and even after being caught. She sees him as desperate, willing to tolerate anything if only she will stay in the marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Could anyone fill in an ignorant - which game is it we are discussing? (in this case):scratchhead:


Let me guess...your first thought was WoW, right? Well, in my case, it was. But theirs is not. The game SL got addicted to was a different MMO that you can play for free. I think those are harder to give up, in some ways. No pay, not trail, ya know?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> From OP's wife: _My husband is devastated and heartbroken, and is vacillating between anger, hurt, numbness, and *desperate clinging*, understandably._
> 
> This is why she was so willing to continue to cheat and lie about it after the initial suspicions and even after being caught. She sees him as desperate, willing to tolerate anything if only she will stay in the marriage.


That's the way it usually shakes out. Responsible men with families have a hard time going nuclear at first detection, which is what it takes.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

What Game is she doing ? utherverse RLC or second Life both have the capabilities to have sex with the characters or in 3d if you will, 

this area is kinda of a new phemona (sp) as addictions go however it is affecting alot of marriages just like facebook 

I was just curious what game your where playing


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Glitch.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> That's the way it usually shakes out. Responsible men with families have a hard time going nuclear at first detection, which is what it takes.


It's not that simple. You reduce everything to a cookie cutter, and yes there is some truth in some of the stereotypes you base your formulae on, but not always.

In my case I never went nuclear. If I had he result might have been a divorce by forcing my wife to make a final decision before she was ready. This runs directly counter to the standard advice here. Likewise after my wife's affair I went through a period of being very withdrawn...I had given up on the marriage as an emotional vehicle for me. My wife was so starved for affection that in retrospect another affair was a real possibility. Her stoicism during that period will never change the fact that she brought it on by cheating, but credit where credit is due. We are all human, we all mess up sometimes.

I think I have given SL as hard a time as anyone, but she is still broken and hurting, and there's only going to be reconciliation if she comes to terms with that.

Every day in love is a fragile gift.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> The idea is to detox her from ongoing contact. To do this cut off Internet to her, cut off her ability to use a smart phone since you can run video Skype on them.]


I never understood this method. What's the point of cutting of the means of contact with the OM when the latter is already on her *MIND* all the time?
The OP could also send his wife to live on the Moon but this won't make her think less about the OM. It's all about how she feels *deep inside*. 
If she's not truly remorseful then the OP will have to live in a false R. Cutting off all the means of communication is just a false, temporary solution.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> I never understood this method. What's the point of cutting of the means of contact with the OM when the latter is already on her *MIND* all the time?
> The OP could also send his wife to live on the Moon but this won't make her think less about the OM. It's all about how she feels *deep inside*.
> If she's not truly remorseful then the OP will have to live in a false R. Cutting off all the means of communication is just a false, temporary solution.


But if the OM is still on her mind, would that not suggest that her mind is still in the "fog" and not focused on her H? Perhaps that is the point. Logic dictates that, in order to reconcile, the OM should NOT be "on her mind" at all, right? So, if the OM is still "on her mind" then she is not preparing herself for a R with her H, right?

While it is true that cutting off the means of communication might be a temporary solution, it is hardly false given the circumstances. If the WS still thinks about the OM, then perhaps she will be honest with her H and leave him for the OM and not string her H along as a back-up plan.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

LG, what he is saying, is its like detoxing an addict. Tae away the drug for a while an the craving lessen. Although, I have seen ppl on coke, go without until they have money in hand. I seems like the association of money for drugs brings on a severe craving. Without her daily web hit or dopamine, maybe she can see past her selfessness.
I'm thinking like Shaggy said earlier, she caught the logger bc she was cotched how to look for it by ap or doc cool slags. Now she is doing damage control. Mach, called it, she never admitted the lying during NC. I hope she is not another alliebabe.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I wonder how she feels, knowing how he see her turning him away when he tryed to pull her pj's down.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Wazza said:


> It's not that simple. You reduce everything to a cookie cutter, and yes there is some truth in some of the stereotypes you base your formulae on, but not always.


There is an exception that proves every rule. With those rare occasions in mind, most guys will do better by playing the odds and taking a hard line, once they have proof.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Today while at work, I was talking to my wife on the phone when my FIL apparently walked in. I had been texting her earlier, during a pretty awful low point, asking why this had happened and if she wasn't gonna be satisfied until I put a gun in my mouth. I also mentioned that that seemed to be what I was facing with her, I either leave or off myself. It was obscenely stupid and weak, offensive, and I feel dumb even rewriting it. I was in the middle of telling her that I would never even consider doing that as I love life and my children too much to even consider it an option, when he grabbed the phone from her and said he needed to talk to her and hung up. She says he brought her out into his car and asked her to tell him everything that was going on. She claims she did, including showing him a reconcilation agreement I had recently written and told him I insisted she sign by tonight.

The reality is that when I wrote it yesterday, I told her we could discuss it. She wasn't really up to it, so I let it slide until the morning. Then I told her before I was leaving that we needed to talk about the agreement because I would like to get it signed by tonight. I completely intended for us to actually discuss it and revise as necessary. In all truth it was fairly draconian in tone, which I didn't intend, but I was still pretty emotionally raw and I'm not exactly used to writing things out like that.

Anyway, after they were done talking, he called me at work. He began berating me about the agreement, saying it sounded more like a management list and that he was going to be giving it to a lawyer he knows to look over. I told him it's not as if any of it was legally binding, and I had already told her we could discuss. I'm getting pretty defensive and outraged at the way he was speaking to me at this point, obviously. I heard him ask her and she said no, I had said it had to be signed by tonight.

He questioned me on the keylogger I installed on the laptop and I told him I already removed it after she found out about it and got agitated. He continued on, dismissing my concerns about my wife's affair and the fact it was the second time it had happened (once when we were dating) and brought up the incident I had confessed about kissing a woman at work. I told him that meant nothing to me and I realized it was wrong and nothing remotely romantic has been exchanged with the other woman since, which he of course dismissed.

I decided at that point to point out to him how I knew he had struck his wife at a certain point and who was he to be lecturing me? He started to tell me I was manipulative and my wife was weak and dumb and that's why he was calling me on it. I told him not to sit there and call her weak and dumb and that if she has any weakness, it's because he beat her down growing up. He was extremely big on pretty intense corporal punishment.

He accused me of being verbally abusive, cursing at my wife and that my son (step-son) told him and his wife that things were rough at home when he was there a couple months ago, which I have to assume were coaxed as my wife and I have not been doing any major fighting until recently, and aside from a few rare incidents recently, which I'll take the blame for, we've only been discussing things relatively quietly in another room or outside.

I felt completely betrayed again. When I got home, my wife began immediately bringing up every wrong of mine in the marriage. She tried pulling the trick of making my indescretion out to be similar to hers and thought it was unfair I was only upset about what she had done. The problem is mine meant nothing and ended immediately, I'm not justifying it was a huge mistake I have begged God's forgiveness for, but it wasn't the same as what happened with her, with the continued lying and pursuit in the affair even as the marriage was in danger. She keeps bringing up the things that had led her to have an affair and lose her trust in ME, which I've assured her a million times I am determined to work on and I mean it. I pointed out that I've already been trying to work on my stuff for the last month, and that it's an ongoing process, but the thing she pulled was massive and was the equivalent to shoving the marriage off a cliff.

I also pointed out to her that I would never knowingly allow anyone in my family to call her and berate her, even though they're not exactly thrilled with what she's done. Even if they tried I would tell them to stay out of it. We argued for a while, I told her I was tired of the struggle to make her care or have any concern for me, and told her it was time to seperate for real. Yet, here I sit. She had a date to go out with a friend which I'm sure was on the up and up because she came to pick her up. This is just a giant nightmare mess I can't seem to wake up from.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Man you need to rethink reconciling with this unremorseful WW of yours. All this is comes directly from the WS Handbook right after DDay.
Deflecting her issues by bullying (attack is best defense).
Singling out your shortcomings and piling up old and recent issues (of course exculively of your doing) no matter if they acurate or made up. Rewriting the story, demonizing the betrayed. 
Demonizing, gaslighting and enlisting parents (always suportive against ILs) and enabler friends. Particulary disgusting the lack of boundaires with parents.
Shifting the blame. Even if you do whatever yo did to make her lost the trust it doesn't make you cheat. Total bull.
Calling you abusive and controling because you demand fidelity and acountability and refuse to be fooled again.

Stop talking to FIL. Now. It's your marriage, your family, your bussiness.

Sorry, friend. She's not remorseful.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Dude, she is not remorseful, a serial cheater, her family is turning against you and just tell me a single reason why you haven't packed your stuff and left?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

keko said:


> Dude, she is not remorseful, a serial cheater, her family is turning against you and just tell me a single reason why you haven't packed your stuff and left?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keko, he needs to pack HER shiite in several hefty bags and leave them on the front lawn for her to pick up when she gets home from her 'date' with her GF. WTF? Her marriage is in crisis and she's out partying with her toxic friend? 

I don't care what she calls herself -- she's* STILL NOT A LADY*.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'm thinking how she tried to gaslights people here. If I recall correctly she told that after the initial - fog induced - reaction against the keylogger she believed finnaly it was right, a trust building action. Now she enlist her father against it as "controling", abusive, completely out of reality behavior.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Yeah, I like the way she came on this forum with that 'oh poor me' BS trying to get our sympathy. This woman clearly is broken and her father is an ass****. 

Still Knight, in the future please leave broken women with daddy issues alone -- lest you end up in a similar situation.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I agree. She is not even remotely remorseful. When I told my family, I owned MY part in it. I told them that my husband was NOT the reason for my cheating. I would NEVER allow my parents to talk to my husband the way your FIL talked to you! I may have missed a previous post, but if your requests are the standard transparency/accountability requests, then she should have no problem complying. The fact that she cried to daddy about it says she has no intention of making this work. 

In your shoes... I'd leave. Even my husband's online affair, which had been caught early on, much like your one kiss... no, I can definitely say mine went further and I decided to turn completely around, open to all he requested. THAT is how committed I was. Doesn't mean his didn't hurt me... it did. Especially because, much like you have said about your kiss, he said "it was nothing... no romantic feelings for her" (which I later learned was not entirely accurate). But the point is, we made the commitment to work on the marriage together. We chose to be accountable because we screwed up. We chose to be transparent in everything. In going off to talk to daddy, she is fighting you. Just leave. Seriously. You deserve better.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Goddamnit, _*FILE FOR DIVORCE*_.

What a *joke*. Really? She's hiding behind her abusive, wife-beating scumbag of a father? He wouldn't know a healthy relationship if it was screwing his wife.

You want to reconcile with _her_? You want her and her father to be a part of _your_ family?

Piss on that, mate. Leave. Divorce.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I've put up with crap like this .. it will NEVER get better.

EVER.

The fantasy alone will keep it alive for years to come.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Still, when are you going to say enuff, is enuff

You do not have to take any crap from her father, in re: anything---HER FATHER IS A 3RD PARTY IN YOUR MGE.

What needs to be done---is to tell her father, you are done, and to come get his daughter, let him be responsible for her----BE DONE WITH ALL OF THIS

You have every right to set up AS MANY BOUNDARIES AS YOU WISH---and she complies with all of them, she cheated, and you are making her accountable----

Tell her if she doesn't like your terms, to hit the road, also either go to an atty., or sit down at the computer, and look at all of your states FAMILY CODES, AND STATUTES, so you know what you are facing.

As to continued payment for her gaming---I would assume, it is on a credit card, and they pull from the credit card, just change the account number of the credit card, and they have nothing to pull from,---GAME OVER


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

I guess some part of me is still hoping things will work out, for the kids, and for my wife. If I bail, this stuff is just going to keep repeating over and over for her with possibly my kids in the mix and all the damage that will come with it.

I don't get agreeing and trying to understand the measures I've gone to rebuild trust with her one day, to acting like they're completely out there the next day either. As I said, I made my agreement as thorough as I could so that I covered everything. I'm not an unreasonable ass though, and she should know that. Every thing was up for revision so that it could be agreeable, though obviously still firm. Most of what I had on my list should go without saying in terms of the transparency.

I think her father found it particularly offensive because of the horrible marriage he has with his wife and his neglect of her so that he can pursue all kinds of other...things I won't go into. Unfortunately, I didn't think she would turn on me that bad considering she should have an idea of the hurt I'm going through, but I'm gonna have to assume my MIL was in the background of this.

Her father is also a bully with his family, and I think he made in error in thinking that because I've always been respectful to him, that I'm a pushover. I am a nice guy up to a point, but I'm also like a tasmanian devil when someone pushes me over a certain level. I've had to let go of a lot of my hatred of him, for the things he's either directly or indirectly done to his kids, for my wife's sake, but I told her that's all out of the f'ing window if this does work out.

Do want to clarify that the friend she went out with last night is someone I trust, who knows me, and that I know will represent me fairly, and it sounds like she did. That's why I never have a problem with them hanging out.

Last night my wife and I had a truly good moment of talking. Talking like we used to before all this crap went down. It's been a while, but I was reminded why I once fell in love with her. The last couple nights have been like that actually. I guess that's part of what keeps the small fire of hope I have burning.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> Last night my wife and I had a truly good moment of talking. Talking like we used to before all this crap went down. It's been a while, but I was reminded why I once fell in love with her. The last couple nights have been like that actually. I guess that's part of what keeps the small fire of hope I have burning.


Just remember that you have learned something in the meantime. This is how she _can_ be, but she is also capable of being a different and less admireable person.

See her for who she really is - a person with both loveable traits and flaws.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> *I guess some part of me is still hoping things will work out, for the kids, and for my wife. *If I bail, this stuff is just going to keep repeating over and over for her with possibly my kids in the mix and all the damage that will come with it.


SK, HOPE IS NOT A PLAN!! You can only control yourself and, yes, she'll probably keep repeating this cycle in the future regardless of who she ends up with. Unfortunately, your kids are going to get caught up in the mix.

This woman has some serious issues and has disrespected you and the marriage. Why does she still have access to the Internet? Also, why are you allowing her to go out on dates with so-called friends after what she has done?

Have some respect for yourself. She's walking all over you like a starlet on the red carpet.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> T
> 
> I also pointed out to her that I would never knowingly allow anyone in my family to call her and berate her, even though they're not exactly thrilled with what she's done. Even if they tried I would tell them to stay out of it. We argued for a while, I told her I was tired of the struggle to make her care or have any concern for me, and told her it was time to seperate for real. Yet, here I sit. She had a date to go out with a friend which I'm sure was on the up and up because she came to pick her up. This is just a giant nightmare mess I can't seem to wake up from.


So, after all that drama she went out? WTF? She walked away? I don't care with whom and for what purpose, aren't YOU her priority?

Do you know why you can't wake up? Because she is not taking this all seriously, that's why. She is playing you and playing a role. It's no more than that. And you sense that, which explains your confusion.

Everything you said indicates that she is playing some sort of gamesmanship with YOU. Yes. I read her explanation on her thread about how it came about that she informed her Dad. So, where was the part where she took ownership of the problem and asked that he not interfere? I didn't see that part.

And she wants to blame shift. She is dying to blame shift. She desperately wants to point out your failures in order to justify her behavior and perhaps get her off some of those things on the "list". Why? So she can have some fun, with her friends, the same thing she just did. Just forget that she has a "crisis" at home.

Perhaps her Dad will take her into his home until she gets her head on straight. Perhaps you should file papers to wake her up to how serious this is. But the least you could enforce is to either get her off the internet until such time as she is trusted again.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I feel for you. Having a FIL like that who interferes this way in the relationship, and takes her side--well, that is beyond awful. That does happen, where the inlaws minimize the betrayal by the WS and takes their side. It's probably also a generational thing, where the betrayal is largely virtual and the old standard for cheating is purely whether penetration was involved.

*I don't know how to spell it out for you any more simply, but as long as she has Internet access and as long as you are delaying specialized counseling for Internet-related addictions, you are going to find yourself back in the same place.* 

Can you please address what the status of that is? If I've missed something, let me know.

She may love you, but that is what most cheaters say about their loyal spouses. If she detested you, she'd ask for a divorce so she could go pursue other men. But the way you describe it, she's probably testing you to see how little sweet-talking she can get away with, to shut you up so she can maintain her gaming relationships. Because as long as she can get online, she is maintaining contact, and as long as she maintains contact, this behavior is going to continue.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

SK - you must feel like an old punching bag right about now.

-Read _No More Mr. Nice Guy _and _Hold On To Your Nuts_.
-If the FIL contacts you again, tell him to go F**K himself and hang up. You don't have to listen to a word out of that POS's mouth.
-File for divorce ASAP. Your cheater/liar wife is is toying with you. If she shows you that the she wants to be your wife, you can stop the D process later.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm truly sorry that you have been duped for so long that you head is now in the fog.

She will continue to adapt to the situation to pull the wool over your eyes.

Without professional help you will just keep going in circles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> SK - you must feel like an old punching bag right about now.
> 
> -Read _No More Mr. Nice Guy _and _Hold On To Your Nuts_.
> -If the FIL contacts you again, tell him to go F**K himself and hang up. You don't have to listen to a word out of that POS's mouth.
> -File for divorce ASAP. *Your cheater/liar wife is is toying with you.* If she shows you that the she wants to be your wife, you can stop the D process later.



:iagree:


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Oh for heaven's sake, I'm not toying with him. 

and I am admitting every step of the way that what I did was wrong and there is NO justification for it, no matter how I think I may have been wronged. No justification at all. Just events that lead up to it.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, I'm not toying with him.
> 
> and I am admitting every step of the way that what I did was wrong and there is NO justification for it, no matter how I think I may have been wronged. No justification at all. Just events that lead up to it.


Phew, glad that's cleared up.....LMAO. :rofl:


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, I'm not toying with him.
> 
> and I am admitting every step of the way that what I did was wrong and there is NO justification for it, no matter how I think I may have been wronged. No justification at all. Just events that lead up to it.


Right. 

And actions speak louder than words.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> There was also an incident where she wanted to go out of town to meet "her best friend" from the game. Wanting her to have an opportunity to get out for a bit out of town and away from the kids, I was totally fine with it. After some reassurances that she had checked the woman out and was going to send me a picture of them when she was safely down there.
> 
> After she came back, my spider sense was telling me something was a bit off, so I decided to have a look in her phone. In the text messages, her friend, who is supposed to be married was talking about how she couldn't wait to meet the guy she was going to see, and had tried to look sexy for him. I also saw where my wife had pictures on her phone of her, the woman, and a man I didn't recognize. I confronted her about it and she tried to lie and tell me there was no guy. I told her I had proof and after getting indignant, she eventually started answering my questions and said that the woman and her husband are polyamorous, well at least she is; the husband isn't allowed to be with anyone else. Obviously I was pissed, mainly because of the lying, but also because my wife and I are supposed to be Christians and not supporting what is ultimately an adulterous lifestyle. She finally told me she was just desperate to get out for a while and was afraid I would tell her she couldn't go if I knew the details. The truth is though, I would have frowned upon it, but I probably would have let her just to give her a break, if she hadn't lied.


I'm late to this party my apologies

but I have to ask about this since no one else has brought it up-

if there's going to be more trickle truth I would be seriously worried about this trip and what actually happened


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Still Lady said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, I'm not toying with him.
> 
> and I am admitting every step of the way that what I did was wrong and there is NO justification for it, no matter how I think I may have been wronged. No justification at all. Just events that lead up to it.


We have no way to tell if you are being truthful or not. Your husband evidently doesn't think so.

How important is your family /husband/ marriage to you? You are risking all this for a game and the polyamorus pervs playing it?


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## Still Lady (Jul 29, 2012)

Except that I gave up the game?

Except that I went before my pastor and his wife to admit what I did?

You know, I don't want to give up on my marriage. And there is so much more than what a simple message board forum post can delve into. 

Those who say I have no remorse and am doing nothing to save this marriage can't see me, what I am doing, how I feel. So fine. 

Also, I love my husband. I was so upset earlier today and about to have a complete meltdown and he incorporated my favorite joke. Right in the middle of tears and snot all over my face, I cracked up. There has be so much hurt and miscommunication thrown both ways, that it's hard to see sometimes why we love each other. 

I can work on this marriage. I really can. But dramatic threats of leaving aren't going to inspire me to work harder. When someone says they are leaving, I take them at their word and start grieving. Where I come from, you don't "threaten" leaving. When you are actually leaving, you say you're leaving. So all these people who come with pitchforks and torches, screaming "LEAVE HER LYING ASS!!" aren't doing anyone any favors. 

Now, if you can excuse me, I'm pretty sure I'm going to bow out of these negative forums and go work rebuilding trust and love with my husband.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Good luck.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

That is the right attitude Still Lady.

Now prove us wrong, no more words. Show your BS action.

Positive, loving,respectful healing action......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> That is the right attitude Still Lady.
> 
> Now prove us wrong, no more words. Show your BS action.
> 
> ...


Since her husband caved and let her keep her on-line friend, her attitude changed rather quickly.

Fascinating.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Why does she still have internet access?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Why does she still have internet access?


It's like talking to a wall.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Since her husband caved and let her keep her on-line friend, her attitude changed rather quickly.
> 
> Fascinating.


Spock - Fascinating! - YouTube


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm late to this party my apologies
> 
> but I have to ask about this since no one else has brought it up-
> 
> if there's going to be more trickle truth I would be seriously worried about this trip and what actually happened


Oh, you mean the _THREE WAY?_

Nothing to see here, move along.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Still Lady said:


> Oh for heaven's sake, I'm not toying with him.
> 
> and I am admitting every step of the way that what I did was wrong and there is NO justification for it, no matter how I think I may have been wronged. No justification at all. Just events that lead up to it.


What I don't and never will understand, is how adult/ married / committed people , get involved into these kind of games, where everyone knows this kind of thing could happen. Why they do not read a book or start a hobby that it may not be damaging to the relationship? 
This kind of thing is just middle -school mentality ....


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I know this is a old thread but to answer your question.... I think it's escapism combined with a introverted personality.


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## caram3113 (Nov 21, 2012)

Geez. I gotta admit, being married to the OP sounds incredibly fun: finger-pointing, proselytizing, making his wife pray about their issues. Wheee! 

I know everyone is going to take his side, and that's fine; he is the wronged party. I'm not going to say she was right, because she wasn't. Clearly nobody wants their spouse to have an affair. 

That said, the truth is that his wife was clearly open to something a little spicier sexually (or emotionally?) than he was giving her. Honestly, she sounds BORED. can you imagine being a SAHM (I was only one for a few months and while I was pregnant and it was AWFUL. Boring. Monotonous) with only your husband or a bunch of other self-righteous types for social interaction? Exactly. 

Communication sounds like it was an issue from the start for this couple -- she didn't either know how to express her desires or didn't feel safe doing so (my money's on the latter, as he sounds like the priggish type), and he seems so focused on what is Christian and Holy that he wasn't even willing or able to realize that his wife might want anything at all. 

I know why StillLady is working to save her marriage, because I'd do the same. Nobody wants to be a homewrecker, after all. But I wouldn't tell her to prostrate herself before her church or whatever other shame-colored "confessional" exercises her husband has devised for her. She's apologized enough; the horse is dead.

Instead she should ask herself a)what she really wanted from the affair, and b)if she thinks she can get that in this marriage -- either from her husband or from herself. And StillKinght needs to ask himself if he is a)willing to listen WITHOUT JUDGEMENT to his wife, and b)willing to give it another go, armed with that knowledge.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Still Lady said:


> I can work on this marriage. I really can. But dramatic threats of leaving aren't going to inspire me to work harder. When someone says they are leaving, I take them at their word and start grieving. Where I come from, you don't "threaten" leaving. When you are actually leaving, you say you're leaving. So all these people who come with pitchforks and torches, screaming "LEAVE HER LYING ASS!!" aren't doing anyone any favors.


You're right. He screwed up. He should have filed for divorce and meant it. It should be up to you to earn him back, not up to him to try and hang on to the crumbs you throw him.


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