# Can't decide why I am so indecisive - killing the love



## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

I think things out and measure the options, weigh the plusses and minuses. "Think it through, manage the outcome and control the situation." Great for my work in sales, I have been succesful and I am admired by my coworkers. But it certainly isn't working in the marriage anymore. I've struggled to start this thread (or any thread) for days; "what if it sounds stupid, what if there are no responses?" So, I'll just start writing.
Certainly its brought success in fiscal and financial ways, but definitely not working at home. 29 years of marriage, 3 daughters; 1 remains at home and in high school. Honey has had enough and has made it clear. It is so ingrained and I know I need to change. Other issues exist...emotional support and understanding for her feelings, expressions and acts of love and lack of "driving the buss" with decisions, mutual activities and social planning. Although sex has been an issue in the past, thanks to my wife, she has again identified the issues and initiated a solution. Her hd has sparked my ld and we are currently enjoying a raucus dom/sub relationship. I know... she is a dream! The dom/ sub exists mainly in the bedroom but she wants more. 
With diagnosed ADD, she is forgetful, disorganized, typically late for most things and it is very frustrating for me. So now, in my new role as the dom, i am supposed to organize her day, along with mine. I want to do this but as I started saying in this post, I can't make a f***ing decision. 
I am probably more sub than dom by nature but I dont see our roles in this marriage, that way. 

I would like to ask you all for suggestions to crack my reserved code, of 56 years, and help me to let go of my behaviors so I can hold on to my wife.

Thank you to all who are still reading, and thank you to all who reply.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Why not go to marriage counseling? Let a neutral third party help both of you find an agreeable compromise. 

You've been married for 29 years and NOW she wants you to organize her day? Why would you agree to that? 

If you want to mess with her.... make a schedule for her for a week. Include all the things that you've wished she would do for the past 29 years....including sexual favors. I can't imagine what goes on a list like that.... maybe something like "strip that hideous wallpaper off the dining room walls". 

I don't see how this can work in reality. Grown ups tell their spouse what to do? Ick. Then if anything goes wrong...it's not her fault or her problem, because it's all on you. Ick.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

What is holding you back from making decisions? Fear? If so, what are you afraid of? Obviously, you can make decisions in the business world, so why not here?

Some people in the military live by the slogan, "The best decisions are fast decisions. If they happen to be right, that's even better." I was a career military man and had to make a lot of calls for the people under me. Some of them were wrong but that's life.

Start small. Make choices that if you get them wrong, they really won't matter in the long run (like picking a restaurant). After you make some wrong choices and see the world did not end, you will feel more comfortable making the bigger ones.

I feel like I am repeating myself because I have said it a lot lately, but the best line from the book _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ is: "I am a man. No matter what happens, I will handle it." Thumbper, even if you make a bad decision or two, you'll handle it. Roll with it and learn from it. That's all any of us can do.

Your wife may object to some of your decisions - hell, based on her personna here, she might object to all of them.  Be stoic, don't knuckle to complaints. If she's really unhappy with your choices, I am sure she'll tell you - but what a sub wants is _security_. Handle these things and make her feel secure that you will handle them and she will rarely complain.

Good luck, brother.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> Why not go to marriage counseling? Let a neutral third party help both of you find an agreeable compromise.
> 
> You've been married for 29 years and NOW she wants you to organize her day? Why would you agree to that?
> 
> ...


the above coming from someone who obviously does not understand D/s relationships at all...

anyway, your biggest concern is that you are have a hard time making a decision... can you give an example of that? im not sure if you mean the kind of indecision where she wants you to take her out somewhere and she wants you to pick a restaurant, but you keep asking her what she wants to eat...

or if its the kind of indecision where you dont know how to begin planning out a day for the two of you/her... 

if you are used to thinking things through and weighing pros and cons, and making decisions... what are the cons that stop you from deciding something? there has to be some, otherwise the pros and cons would not be balanced and you would have no problem making a decision. are you afraid of failing?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Convection said:


> What is holding you back from making decisions? Fear? If so, what are you afraid of? Obviously, you can make decisions in the business world, so why not here?
> 
> Some people in the military live by the slogan, "The best decisions are fast decisions. If they happen to be right, that's even better." I was a career military man and had to make a lot of calls for the people under me. Some of them were wrong but that's life.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I understand it. I just can't encourage it. Especially when it seems like the OP isn't into it. 

Sounds more like the wife has pretty much given up, handed over the reigns in a "I don't want to make any more decisions" kind of way. Whether her husband likes the idea or not. 

Seems like a HUGE change after 29 years.

And there is a difference in a wife wanting her husband to be more involved in family affairs (arranging entertainment? Really? That is what the dom's duty includes?).... and turning the whole relationship on end. 

A "compromise" would be that OP take a more active role in family activities. If nothing else, it's a small step that the wife would appreciate.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> I understand it. I just can't encourage it. Especially when it seems like the OP isn't into it.
> 
> Sounds more like the wife has pretty much given up, handed over the reigns in a "I don't want to make any more decisions" kind of way. Whether her husband likes the idea or not.
> 
> ...



im sorry, but i think you dont. if you did, you would stop mocking it and try to be more productive with your posts. 

the only reason i see for your mockery is that you look down on it. and if thats the case, then you dont understand it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

thumbper said:


> I think things out and measure the options, weigh the plusses and minuses. "Think it through, manage the outcome and control the situation." Great for my work in sales, I have been succesful and I am admired by my coworkers. But it certainly isn't working in the marriage anymore. I've struggled to start this thread (or any thread) for days; "what if it sounds stupid, what if there are no responses?" So, I'll just start writing.
> Certainly its brought success in fiscal and financial ways, but definitely not working at home. 29 years of marriage, 3 daughters; 1 remains at home and in high school. Honey has had enough and has made it clear. It is so ingrained and I know I need to change. Other issues exist...emotional support and understanding for her feelings, expressions and acts of love and lack of "driving the buss" with decisions, mutual activities and social planning. Although sex has been an issue in the past, thanks to my wife, she has again identified the issues and initiated a solution. Her hd has sparked my ld and we are currently enjoying a raucus dom/sub relationship. I know... she is a dream! The dom/ sub exists mainly in the bedroom but she wants more.
> With diagnosed ADD, she is forgetful, disorganized, typically late for most things and it is very frustrating for me. So now, in my new role as the dom, i am supposed to organize her day, along with mine. I want to do this but as I started saying in this post, I can't make a f***ing decision.
> I am probably more sub than dom by nature but I dont see our roles in this marriage, that way.
> ...


Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? If so, do you recognize yourself? The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you're reluctant to rock the boat, so over the years you've just declined to put your foot down and, bit by bit, you wife has come to be the driver of the household and relationship and she's just tired of it and finds it a turnoff. 

It sounds like you are a good provider, and you have found pride and confidence in your career. Time to work on achieving those things in your marriage. Obviously you have the ability to make decisions and act on them, but sometimes when someone else is willing to do those things when we hold back, then we can become sort of lazy and dependent on that person to ALWAYS do those things. It seems like its reached the point where your wife is saying "enough is enough, step up and be my partner."

Your wife is probably not submissive by nature, so, even though she desperately wants to give them up, taking the reigns from her will be met by some resistance and questioning of your decisions. How you handle that sort of resistance from her is crucial. Her flak is a challenge to you (aka sh1t test) and she's watching to see if you fail. Yes, you will make mistakes, and she's going to have to be patient. But the important thing is how you handle your mistakes: do they set you back and send you back into your comfort zone, or do you look her in the eye and tell her, "I'm learning, too, and I don't appreciate your constant push back." Sometimes it helps to have a very definite protocol for dealing with disrespect from the person in the submissive role. At the very least, she absolutely must learn to apologize when she is critical of your honest efforts. Any other consequences are are to the two of you to negotiate based on what her needs are in order for her feel that you are taking on more of a leadership (dominant) role in the marriage. 

You can do this, thumbper. Old habits do die hard, but my husband and I did a re-do of our marriage dynamic on a very fundamental level 24 years into our relationship. It really comes down to communication: be utterly honest with your wife, and DEMAND the same of her. She wants this, she has to be able to show you even the darkest corners of her soul so that she can feel the delicious security that the sort of marriage she is seeking can offer. She's tired of the control, but doesn't really know how to just lay it down after all these years. She needs your help and she's asking for your help and she's willing to work with you on this. That's a great recipe for success!


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

SUNNY T
You've been married for 29 years and NOW she wants you to organize her day? Why would you agree to that? 
_________________________________________________________________________
My thoughts are that her general propensity for disorganization and boredom from years of stay-at-home mom duties (she has worked outside the home a few of those years) has drained her tank. Setting daily expectations, moreso than "organizing" her day, within a sub/dom framework to bring freshness and motivation to the task. 
Most importantly, is that the dom personality turns her on and I am more of a mr nice guy.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

[QUOTE=SunnyT;10396378

If you want to mess with her....

I dont want to mess with her


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

Do you, by chance, suffer from OCPD (not OCD)

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) 
What is Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)? 
OCPD is a type of “personality disorder” with these characteristics: 
• Rigid adherence to rules and regulations 
• An overwhelming need for order 
• Unwillingness to yield or give responsibilities to others 
• A sense of righteousness about the way things “should be done” 
What are the symptoms of OCPD? 
• Excessive devotion to work that impairs social and family activities 
• Excessive fixation with lists, rules and minor details 
• Perfectionism that interferes with finishing tasks 
• Rigid following of moral and ethical codes 
• Unwillingness to assign tasks unless others perform exactly as asked 
• Lack of generosity; extreme frugality without reason 

I ask because decision making is part of this spectrum. Is it possible that your wife is just tired of being criticized for her decisions so she is putting it all on you? Just a guess, hope this helps...you can also check out International OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) Foundation 

I know all too well about OCPD unfortunately. My husband has always had mild symptoms, but me too. His are getting SO much worse as he gets older, his inability to make a decision about the simplest things because it might not be the right one is driving me NUTS....


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

*


Convection said:



What is holding you back from making decisions

Click to expand...

*


Convection said:


> ?
> 
> I always measure my responses against how it will effect or upset/please the recipient. However, I am guilty of not considering the w's feelings at times. There realy is no answer as to how exactly someone will feel, so without knowing the correct (often contrived) answer, I restrain my feelings and responses.
> 
> ...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Well it's simple then. Your just afraid of messing up. Her reactions are not under your control, and when you think about trying to influence her emotions in a positive way by stepping out and projecting your authority, it feels like you are trying to do the impossible.


I'll tell you a little secret... your going to mess up. You are going to mess up whether you take decisive action or whether you don't act for fear of messing up. None of it is perfect. But you know what's funny about D/s? You can mess up over and over again while trying to meet your spouses needs. You just have to talk about it afterwords and find out what went wrong and keep it in mind next time. It certainly won't go perfect at first, but what do you have to lose? You can't control her emotions or read her mind, so take her words and reactions into consideration, but realize that a messing up is just part of the learning process. So go make a mistake or two, expect that you will trigger her in some way, and know that that's just part of the process. As you learn to not fear a mistake, you will learn things about her that you never knew. 

D/s is a powerful statement. It says "I am going to try to meet your needs, but if either of us mess up, it's ok. We will deal with it and move on."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> anyway, your biggest concern is that you are have a hard time making a decision... can you give an example of that? im not sure if you mean the kind of indecision where she wants you to take her out somewhere and she wants you to pick a restaurant, but you keep asking her what she wants to eat...
> 
> or if its the kind of indecision where you dont know how to begin planning out a day for the two of you/her...
> 
> if you are used to thinking things through and weighing pros and cons, and making decisions... what are the cons that stop you from deciding something? there has to be some, otherwise the pros and cons would not be balanced and you would have no problem making a decision. are you afraid of failing?


Mostly it is that I make decisions to please others without my direct satisfaction in mind. Yes, restaurants, planning a day out or just what movie to see. Our tastes, for food, differ greatly with some overlap...steaks and burgers mainly. I also like sushi, sauerkraut and seafood; well, really I like everything. i think it is really about me jumping in and getting involved in our relationship. Expressing likes, dislikes and preferences including the clothes she is wearing and how she looks. 

I avoid arguments and would rather we smooth things over, but it just doesn't go away like this. She doesn't sleep well and has some health maladies, so plans made, occasionally, are cancelled last minute. (not that I have been the social director / Julie McCoy of the relationship.) I have taken this personally in the past but not so now. 

No single post can express the dynamics of 29 years married. I chose to start with the indecisive issue cause i wanted to post something to discuss and i was just staring at the keyboard for hours....I mean days. It seemed obvious it was an issue so I just began writing. I feel there is alot more to come.

Also, I am finding it helpful to just write out my thoughts and sort through my feelings while working on our issues. 

As'laDain.......Thank you so much for your response


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

WRONG WRONG WRONG

For her to force DOM onto you is an extreme. You are going from something "not good at" to "have to do it all" in one day.

You guys need to figure out a way to ease into it/compromise.

I would STRONGLY recommend that you keep "sales" or "business" away from your relationship. Business definition ITSELF is morally wrong and to apply it to a relationship would just be devastating. DO NOT mix the 2. Especially since you said you are in sales......god.....

Same goes for the entire sex/dom thing. Don't take that from the bedroom and apply it to real life. Seriously.

If she has a problem with you not doing enough of a, b or C, that's fine. Acknowledge to her that you do suck (that will go a long way) and ask her how you can ease into it. Ask her to give you direction and training and promise that you will do your best.

NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme.

You see OP, what you guys are dealing with now is things that you 2 should've been dealing with ALL along while raising your children. This happens often and with many couples/marriages (it happened in mine as well, but we were able to identify the issue early on and deal with it). 

You 2 need to BOTH work HARD on your relationship each and every day. Cause now the nest is slowly becoming empty, and you both know that you will be left with each other.

You will need to put in ALL of your effort into your marriage now, but you only have 4-6 hours a day to do so......

Work on it. If you want to keep your marriage going it will have to be done regardless (if not now, later). Longer you wait/ignore it.....worst it will get and more risk you introduce.

Good luck


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Can't decide why I am so indecisive - killing the love*



DoF said:


> WRONG WRONG WRONG
> 
> For her to force DOM onto you is an extreme. You are going from something "not good at" to "have to do it all" in one day.
> 
> ...


Sales from a transactional standpoint and I agree. From a fundamental standpoint sales can play a huge part.

Thumbper:

What do you sell?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

thumbper...first of all, no one here is going to laugh at you. We ALL have marriage issues, even the happiest marriages have issues. You're in good company. 

Second of all...can you list or describe what you have tried so far, in removing your own blocks? For instance, have you read any books relevant to your indecisiveness? Have you had any individual counseling or marriage counseling? If "no" on those questions, have you done significant introspection and reflection in order to discover what is the main part of your indecisiveness block?

If "no" to that question too, then you are really just starting out.

There are a number of resources to help you, so let us know what you have done on your own, so far. I'm just starting out with your indecisiveness, but I have other questions to ask, too.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

You have to start out small.
Its going to take you a while to really take the control she needs/desires.
I would suggest the old "I want you to go about your day..BUT! I want you on your knees in the kitchen at 11:45 when I come home for lunch. Do a good job and I will play with you tonight."

Start small, then you can expand her day slowly.
You might want to pick up a few books on the subject too. Amazon will ship them to you with no indications of what it is.

Have fun with it.
:toast:


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

It looks to me like your wife is deeply submissive. She has discovered it late in her life, but decided to share it with you. She likes what she got and she wants to go all the way, into 24/7 D/s relationship. 

The problems is that you are not really thrilled about it. It could be two reasons: you are not that much into D/s, and just want to keep it in the bedroom (which is fine), or you are simply not sure how to go about it? If you are enjoying this dynamic in the bedroom, you may try outside. Give it a try, make it erotic. Leave her morning to do list, ex" pay the bills, book the flight, put the vibrating egg in and report when it's done". Come on, it does sound fun, doesn't it? it's not that scary. 

This is not about getting your involved in housework. This is her sub calling.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? If so, do you recognize yourself? The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you're reluctant to rock the boat, so over the years you've just declined to put your foot down and, bit by bit, you wife has come to be the driver of the household and relationship and she's just tired of it and finds it a turnoff.
> 
> Thanks Gettingit:
> I have read NMMNG, Hold On To Your Nuts and a few others. I definitely recognize myself and you are spot on with your analysis of the current situation, she is tired of fueling the relationship fire.
> ...


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

notperfectanymore said:


> Do you, by chance, suffer from OCPD (not OCD)
> 
> Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)
> What is Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)?
> ...



WOW, no I never heard of this (ocpd). Some of these traits do ring true, I am a procrastinator but, under pressure, I get my tasks done. Not big on lists or complete and total order but I do not like general lazy slopiness. I think you should clean as you go so it does not build up. I will use the same towel, after showering, for 2 or 3 weeks to save on laundrey and I hate lights left on. I do change my underware daily but shirts and pants often last several days or more.....again saving on laundry. Oh s**t wait, this is obsessive.

Here is my coffee routine: typically up at 6:00 AM, I make enough coffee for me and wifey (she gets hers in bed several hours later)....plus 1 extra cup. Now, the next day I still have that extra cup still in the pot.
I pour into my mug (same mug almost always, it does not go in the dishwasher, I hand wash so I can use tomorrow).
Microwave for 2 min 20 seconds for correct temp.
Then I make a new pot......it also takes me 2 min 20 sec to make the new pot.
I press hard to finish making just as the timer on the microwave goes off.
I have a hot mug of coffee in my hands when I am done.

I don't know, what do you think? 

Thanks for your post notperfectanymore


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

"Correct again, she is bold, brazing and opinionated and I have seen her go toe-to-toe in the face of loud mouth, and equally opinionated, men spouting political or social commentary. She is intelligent, well read and not afraid to engage, express and debate. No wall flower here."

Many submissives (women and men) are very decisive and opinioned outside the bedroom.

I think what your wife wants is to add extra spice to everyday life, to get D/s dynamic outside the bedroom too. Doesn't mean you are now going to make all the vital decisions in the house. It is about small things, about keeping power play, that will keep you both excited throughout a day, even when you are not together. All about fun, not giving up real responsibilities.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

DoF said:


> WRONG WRONG WRONG
> 
> I would STRONGLY recommend that you keep "sales" or "business" away from your relationship. Business definition ITSELF is morally wrong and to apply it to a relationship would just be devastating. DO NOT mix the 2. Especially since you said you are in sales......god.....
> 
> ...


Thank you



farsidejunky said:


> Sales from a transactional standpoint and I agree. From a fundamental standpoint sales can play a huge part.
> 
> Thumbper:
> 
> What do you sell?


I am in a strategic sales position representing environmental solutions, typically to large organizations in a 5 state area. Sale cycle is 1 to 3 years time.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> "Correct again, she is bold, brazing and opinionated and I have seen her go toe-to-toe in the face of loud mouth, and equally opinionated, men spouting political or social commentary. She is intelligent, well read and not afraid to engage, express and debate. No wall flower here."
> 
> Many submissives (women and men) are very decisive and opinioned outside the bedroom.
> 
> I think what your wife wants is to add extra spice to everyday life, to get D/s dynamic outside the bedroom too. Doesn't mean you are now going to make all the vital decisions in the house. It is about small things, about keeping power play, that will keep you both excited throughout a day, even when you are not together. All about fun, not giving up real responsibilities.


Thanks WandaJ, yes spice and excitement is needed but not chore lists and duty rosters. I am looking forward to creating the fun.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> It looks to me like your wife is deeply submissive. She has discovered it late in her life, but decided to share it with you. She likes what she got and she wants to go all the way, into 24/7 D/s relationship.
> 
> The problems is that you are not really thrilled about it. It could be two reasons: you are not that much into D/s, and just want to keep it in the bedroom (which is fine), or you are simply not sure how to go about it? If you are enjoying this dynamic in the bedroom, you may try outside. Give it a try, make it erotic. Leave her morning to do list, ex" pay the bills, book the flight, put the vibrating egg in and report when it's done". Come on, it does sound fun, doesn't it? it's not that scary.
> 
> This is not about getting your involved in housework. This is her sub calling.


Yes, a later life realization. We are moving slowly and I am excited about it. The way you describe it, I may want to move a little faster.
Thanks!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Convection said:


> Your wife may object to some of your decisions - hell, based on her personna here, she might object to all of them.
> 
> Good luck, brother.


:lol:

She is a calm and gentle soul!


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> thumbper...first of all, no one here is going to laugh at you. We ALL have marriage issues, even the happiest marriages have issues. You're in good company.
> 
> Second of all...can you list or describe what you have tried so far, in removing your own blocks? For instance, have you read any books relevant to your indecisiveness? Have you had any individual counseling or marriage counseling? If "no" on those questions, have you done significant introspection and reflection in order to discover what is the main part of your indecisiveness block?
> 
> ...


I have read NO books specific to indecisiveness. I have read no more mr nice guy, hold on to your nuts, 5 love languages and too good to leave, too bad to stay. I think nmmng relates to indecisiveness, for me, as I measure and calculate before acting so as to please others.

We attended marriage counseling twice together and I have been in counseling 6 sessions alone.

I am very much a procrastinator, a perfectionist, to an extent, and I want to be liked. I strive first for cohesion and agreement in all relationships. I am very troubled when I think someone does not like me.

I appreciate your response and qualifying questions. I look forward to connecting again.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't understand this D/s thing. That is, I literally don't understand what it means to you and her, as well as those with differing views here that claim knowledge of it.



Is it possible her desire for you to be D is a really just an expression of a desire for you to be more self-assertive, less people-pleasing, and to be comfortable setting direction when she prefers not too?



Maybe you don't want to be Dom? (Asking, rhetorically, not declaring.). If that is the case, then what? No offense to her (one of my favorite people here), but maybe this is a giant sh!t test to see if the real you -- Dom, "Integrated", or too-passive-nice-guy -- will stand up. Trying to stand up as Dom may not be the right answer?! In any case, I think it should be you who decides who you want to be.



Btw, it seems like a "nice guy" -- certifiably pathological or perhaps just a bit on the doormat side -- isn't going to get where he needs to by trying to act Dom, especially at the request of his "submissive" wife. If one does have ingrained behaviors (thinking of my codependent, procrastinating self here), seems like the root issues inside oneself would have to be addressed first. Not sure you can fake Dom until you make Dom.



Just thinking out loud.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I'll vote for counseling also, even though its a standard refrain. It sounds like this is getting into some head game realm that a pro might need to sort out.

We've heard time and again that women crave confident men. Until she sees that in you, she may not respond well to anything you try. Just file that away.

At this point in life, do you really need to be so cautious? Its exhausting, but becomes habit. Try just trusting your gut more. Research has always shown that your first choice is usually most likely to be correct. Go with it. And stop analyzing your decisions afterward! It will only weaken your resolve.

To grossly oversimplify: (and risk a verbal beating) 
Women love attention and compliments. This is my own observation only. I suspect your wife would be so satisfied with confidence, attention and compliments from you, that she'll drop the other demands.

At any rate. Just because she wants something doesn't obligate you to do it.

Now then. I have to ask if your thread title was intended to be funny/ironic. Surely that was intentional.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Might find the book titled "blink" (or is it "blink!"?) eye opening, when it comes to fast decision making. It is by Malcolm Gladwell, IIRC. I have only perused it at the bookstore. Seems like it would be interesting and relevant. Not a self-help book, though it may be eye-opening.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

thumbper said:


> I have read NO books specific to indecisiveness. I have read no more mr nice guy, hold on to your nuts, 5 love languages and too good to leave, too bad to stay. I think nmmng relates to indecisiveness, for me, as I measure and calculate before acting so as to please others.
> 
> We attended marriage counseling twice together and I have been in counseling 6 sessions alone.
> 
> ...


Thanks thumbper.

One thing others have suggested and I agree with is that more counseling would be good for both you and your wife, individually and together.

Counseling is a long term process which helps you self-reflect and self-adjust. It isn't a cure. It is a means by which you may find out things about yourself that you didn't know before. A good counselor will not tell you what to do but will encourage you to know yourself.

But counseling doesn't work by just going a few times. It also doesn't work if you don't actually DO the inner work that arises for you to do out of your discussions with the counselor.

The other thing I don't hear you saying is exercise...I think you have said your wife has expressed her desire for you to lose weight? You need to do that, no excuses. Everyone needs regular exercise for their optimal physical and mental health.

If you need to lose more than 20 pounds, you need to get on this even quicker. Like, today.

As to your feelings of wanting to be liked and for there to be agreement in all relationships...this is a very difficult topic to address because when guys around here are advised in this area, they are typically told to "be a jerk" more often. They are told to deliberately do things their wife doesn't like. So it gets very confusing.

*The paradox is that a man who worries first about being liked and getting agreement, ends up being disliked for those very qualities.*

"Wanting to be liked" is not actually a core personality trait. What is behind that "wanting to be liked" is the core trait...and usually what's behind it is an inability to tolerate discomfort.

When we are around someone who is unable to tolerate discomfort, it makes US feel discomfort. It makes us feel that nothing can go wrong, so we can't be ourselves. It makes us feel you are fragile and unable to handle "real life". It causes us to feel like we need to care-take you.

It feels really unsexy for most wives to care-take a husband in this way. Especially a woman who has strong emotions, like your wife. If she doesn't feel like she can truly be herself without upsetting you, then she is always going to be holding back. As you know, this will likely turn into a volcano because no one can truly hold their real self back.

Where does your need to be liked and have agreement come from? Do you know?

And where ever it did come from, you need to look at it very closely and realize that it can help you in sales, but you aren't hawking something to your wife and your family. You don't allow them to truly be themselves if you expect full agreement and to always be liked.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FW:

That was an insightful post, especially regarding discomfort.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I know I used to be the nice guy poster boy... complete with all the anxiety and self doubt that goes with it. 

I had to accept the things that I like and dislike about myself and decide that I am who I am before I started to change. Then I started to live myself. After that, it was so much easier to show akinaura how much I love her. When she got upset with me, i realized that all I needed to tell her essentially "be still, and know that i love you."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

This is not (it shouldn't be )about moving all responsibilities on you. You still make all the family decisions together, as usual. But once in a while you turn some of the mundane tasks that were on her to do list anyway into hot erotic assignment by adding some requirement to it ((no panties, change in black lingerie before, Wear anal plug, etc) if you do your research you will find a lot of ideas for " assignments" for sub. It should be fun not work


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Ha! I just had it all figure out for you. 

If she wants you to organize her day, turn it around. Tell her to prepare her to do list for the next day (or week) and submit for approval. Then you'll go over it together (in a D/s mode), add something, maybe you'll take over something. that way this will involve you more in teh household planning, and she will be satisfied. Add reward/punishment system, if you wish.

have fun


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## MisterG (Jan 24, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> This is not (it shouldn't be )about moving all responsibilities on you. You still make all the family decisions together, as usual. But once in a while you turn some of the mundane tasks that were on her to do list anyway into hot erotic assignment by adding some requirement to it ((no panties, change in black lingerie before, Wear anal plug, etc) if you do your research you will find a lot of ideas for " assignments" for sub. It should be fun not work





WandaJ said:


> Ha! I just had it all figure out for you.
> 
> If she wants you to organize her day, turn it around. Tell her to prepare her to do list for the next day (or week) and submit for approval. Then you'll go over it together (in a D/s mode), add something, maybe you'll take over something. that way this will involve you more in teh household planning, and she will be satisfied. Add reward/punishment system, if you wish.
> 
> have fun


As I was reading through the posts, I was thinking along the same lines, but a little different.

I was also going to suggest *Thumbper* and his wife have periodic (e.g., weekly) meetings where *thumbper* can assign his wife tasks and where she can report the status of the previous tasks he assigned her. This can be conducted in D/s mode where they both put extra effort into their roles. 

But to get things started, nothing really has to change as far as who does the day-to-day work. It's just that *Thumbper* is now formally assigning his wife the tasks she is doing already, and she must report back to him with her progress and status (maybe at the next meeting, maybe at the end of each day, wherever makes sense). But now she is doing the tasks because he told her to do so, not because she feels like she has to do something he is ignoring. And now she has an extra submissive task to do in the form of reporting to him (like reporting to a boss). 

As you suggested, they can have more fun with it by *thumbper* requiring that she not wear panties when they have their meetings or at other times. Or a spanking when he is not satisfied with her efforts. But if they are having a hard time getting started, just having him assign tasks and her reporting back would be a start to a D/s mode.

As they get comfortable with D/s mode, they can move forward in other ways.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> You have to start out small.
> Its going to take you a while to really take the control she needs/desires.
> I would suggest the old "I want you to go about your day..BUT! I want you on your knees in the kitchen at 11:45 when I come home for lunch. Do a good job and I will play with you tonight."
> 
> ...


Thanks Samurai, certainly taking it slow is my intention on the d/s aspect of our current relationship dynamics. My main focus now is on the other issues in our marriage, which are closely related. She wants and needs a stronger, decisive and take action man that is more engaged in our daily relationship. My monotonous, even-tempered demeanor lacks emotion and expression of feelings that show I care. I am not saying that I dont have feelings, I just need to show them.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

MisterG said:


> As I was reading through the posts, I was thinking along the same lines, but a little different.
> 
> I was also going to suggest *Thumbper* and his wife have periodic (e.g., weekly) meetings where *thumbper* can assign his wife tasks and where she can report the status of the previous tasks he assigned her. This can be conducted in D/s mode where they both put extra effort into their roles.
> 
> ...


Thanks MG. Outside the bedroom, this seems to be an appropriate level (about a 3 or 4 on scale of 10) to start growing the d/s dynamics, considering where we are now. Love the suggestions coming out here, looking forward to hearing more.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks thumbper.
> 
> 
> The other thing I don't hear you saying is exercise...I think you have said your wife has expressed her desire for you to lose weight? You need to do that, no excuses. Everyone needs regular exercise for their optimal physical and mental health.
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You sound like you're doing very well thumbper. I know your wife and family have suffered a loss recently so I can only assume you are holding each other very close at this time and there's not much time for TAM. I'm sure you can make a lot of progress right now by simply having open arms for your wife to fall into.


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> You sound like you're doing very well thumbper. I know your wife and family have suffered a loss recently so I can only assume you are holding each other very close at this time and there's not much time for TAM. I'm sure you can make a lot of progress right now by simply having open arms for your wife to fall into.


__________________________________________________________________________
Yes FW, we have been spending a lot of time together and working on communicating and sharing feelings. Interestingly, the blow up fight we had 10 days ago allowed us to really get things out. Followed soon after by her mom's passing, we are getting through this time with the lessons we learned (mainly what I learned). It has, and will be busy for some time. I am trying to get back in here and keep working.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

thumbper, i get the feeling that you try to operate without emotion as much as you can. 

is that right?


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## thumbper (Sep 11, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> thumbper, i get the feeling that you try to operate without emotion as much as you can.
> 
> is that right?


You are correct and when I do, I tend to explode. Nothing crazy or dangerous, I just hold it all in and explode when I can not take it anymore. I have been working on this lately. Just yexterday, I pointed out something that bothered me as soon as it took place and she recognized the inconsiderate nature of the behavior and apologized. It works better that way.
Additionally, expressing positive emotion, compliments, playfulness and letting loose works to fuel the marriage as well.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

thumbper said:


> You are correct and when I do, I tend to explode. Nothing crazy or dangerous, I just hold it all in and explode when I can not take it anymore. I have been working on this lately. Just yexterday, I pointed out something that bothered me as soon as it took place and she recognized the inconsiderate nature of the behavior and apologized. It works better that way.
> Additionally, expressing positive emotion, compliments, playfulness and letting loose works to fuel the marriage as well.


wow. you actually said exactly what i was going to say if you answered yes. 

your doing good, keep it up!


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