# In 180. How do I respond to DS's text?



## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

It has been a week or so from DDay2. I am slowly recovering from shock of this second betrayal and what is clearly an EA and mild PA (holding hands, kissing his cheeks, who knows what else; I don't believe there was sex). 

The last few days, I have been in 180. Hard as it has been, it has felt good to feel empowered and strong again. It has given me something to focus on and not wallow in self-pity. I had this exchange with DS this morning:

ME: "Don't over think it, but we have to the hard work of figuring out the holes and fixing them. Otherwise, we will be right here again. This is an opportunity. Whether or not this situation is fixable is not baked in. It depends on our future commitment to actions - behavior and attitude changes."

DS: "Comments such as that are not helpful. I am happy to check out too. Try to keep your negative thoughts to yourself "

ME: "I understand. i thought I was being positive. What did you mean by check out"?

DS: "It feels that you have left the relationship, we are strangers in a house together. That is checked out. I understand why, and I respect that you need to figure out what you want. I am prepared to pay for my inappropriate actions. i make no excuses. I am sorry I that it hurt you and our family. I made a mistake and I hope you can forgive me, but if you are unable, which I see being a very real possibility, then I will move forward, as will you. As usual, I have no intention of wasting years of suffering over one pseudo indiscretion, I hope that we will move forward cooperatively". 

Thoughts? 
I chose not to respond, but what would you do?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

It takes 1 second to cut & paste.. Please remove the link, if you want to tell your story here, tell it. Dont send people somewhere else. 

Reading the responses you were getting, they are fairly close to spot on... 

Your W is highly manipulative, selfish and considerable higher on the 'alpha' food chain that you... She's owns you, and she knows it. You won't call her bluff. 

Your being gaslighted. She's is managing you. 

Unless you change that, and I mean a radical shift in the dynamic between you and your W... you got no chance. None.


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't see how your first text is in any way implementing a 180.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Use a bit less sophisticated language, much less opportunity to twist your point and steer the conversation into irrelevant BS.

But I agree with Pit, she holds you by the balls. She feels your weakness, your urge to preserve the relationship, and takes advantage of it.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

DDay2? Dump her.


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Your W is highly manipulative, selfish and considerable higher on the 'alpha' food chain that you... She's owns you, and she knows it. You won't call her bluff.


Do DS usually give up their manipulativeness and selfishness as a result of proper R? Does the alpha position change as a result?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I would just cut contact with her period. Send her a curt email saying "since you seem to have no genuine remorse for your cheating behavior then there is no point in us wasting time with these useless e-mails. I gave you a chance and you slapped me in the face with your thoughtless words. Pack your bags and get out before I come home. I will contact you through my lawyer," or something to that effect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Your wife does not sound remorseful or understand the magnitude of her betrayal. She's minimizing your pain and not taking responsibility for her actions by stating she has "no intention of wasting years of suffering over one pseudo indiscretion."

If this is already DDay2, it sounds like it's only a matter of time before there is DDay3. Could be weeks, months, or years . . . but with the attitude your wife is displaying, she is not committed to R or your marriage.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

thrway214 said:


> Do DS usually give up their manipulativeness and selfishness as a result of proper R? Does the alpha position change as a result?


There is ONE path to true reconciliation.... 

DS's only find that path and stay on it with an escort from Mr. CONSEQUENCES.

There are NO exceptions.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

This is what she is telling you

I screwed up, get over it. If you can't then we can just get on with our lives without each other.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> There is ONE path to true reconciliation....
> 
> DS's only find that path and stay on it with an escort from Mr. CONSEQUENCES.
> 
> There are NO exceptions.


Pit, what consequences? I am not criticizing, it is a serious question.

In my case, I carry all the consequences it seems. Aside from leaving my cheating husband or cheating on him (which I think about everyday in a sick sort of way) what other consequences could I possibly give him?


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Also, your wife saying "keep your negative thougths to yourself" is NOT an acceptable thing to say to someone who is recovering from infidelity. It's actually not acceptable to say to a partner in any committed relationship for that matter. How are you supposed to work on a marriage and gain true intimacy, if you keep your negative thoughts to yourself? Especially if those thoughts are legitimate concerns about your relationship?

Your wife's attitude is the opposite of what you need for there to be true R, she's not even close.

As far as what to say in repsonse to her text? Say nothing. See a lawyer, start the paperwork for D. You can always stop if her attitude and actions change, but right now you will be the one "wasting years of suffering" if you don't act soon.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

thrway214, you chose not to respond to your wife's text, and ask what other people would do, presumably to gain understanding of how other people view the situation.

Based on that, here we go.

I would take into account that this is D-day number TWO. This isn't your wife's first extramarital rodeo.

I would take some time to try to understand where your wife is at, mentally, versus where you WANT her to be, mentally and emotionally. This is really important, because you two are not on the same page, and you don't seem to realize that.

I would re-read the 180, every day. And I would read about the differences between remorse and rug-sweeping. Lordmayhem, a pretty regular commenter, has a nifty chart that shows the differences between the two types of behavior.

So, once I had educated myself with the above knowledge, I would stop talking to her, period. If the house was in my name, I would surprise her by moving her stuff into the garage and changing the locks, and hiring a divorce lawyer.

Look. An unfaithful spouse who is REALLY sorry will do damn near anything to repair the damage they have caused to their partner, IF THEY ACTUALLY LOVE THEM.

If they don't love them, then, when politely advised that they, as a couple, have a lot of work to do, they crap all over the unloved spouse (that would be YOU) and spout crap about "keeping negative thoughts to yourself."

See, the basic problem here is that you love her a lot, and she doesn't love you at all. 

You will do yourself immensely better, if you start thinking that not only did your wife hold this other guy's hands, but that she held other parts of his body to her in much more intimate ways.

D-day2????? And you think this situation is an "opportunity????" 

Yeah. An opportunity to for your wife to send you even clearer signals that she doesn't love you, doesn't respect you, and would rather "hold hands" with other men than be with you. And an opportunity for you to experience the "cuckold lifestyle."

Stop asking how the two of you can fix the relationship and start asking what SHE is going to do to fix the relationship that SHE has broken with her infidelity. Or even better for you, divorce her and let some other guy deal with her cheating ways!


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Saffron said:


> Also, your wife saying "keep your negative thougths to yourself" is NOT an acceptable thing to say to someone who is recovering from infidelity.


:iagree:

Response: "Ok. From now on my negative thoughts will be kept between myself and my attorney, who will be contacting you shortly."


Seriously, talk about a complete disregard for any responsibility...if she can't even try to see this from your side let her go, she is not healthy for you.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Falene said:


> Pit, what consequences? I am not criticizing, it is a serious question.
> 
> In my case, I carry all the consequences it seems. Aside from leaving my cheating husband or cheating on him (which I think about everyday in a sick sort of way) what other consequences could I possibly give him?


My statement is an absolute fact.

It's human nature, it is the law that dictates all behavior.

The thing that would make anyone question that statement is a perception that by "consequences" I mean some sort of cohersion or punishment... that is not always the case. It should really never be viewed like that.

Consequences come in a mariad of shapes and sizes...

For example, a change in someones behavior could be genuinely motivated internally by the 'consequence' of losing someone... if someone genuinely believes that a behavior (cheating) will cause them to lose someone they love, and the pain of that loss outweighs the potential pleasure that the behavior (cheating) gives them.... they will change that behavior...

I really think thats what it comes down to, they have to believe that they will lose someone/something.... genuinely (which is a direct result of your behavior after dday). That is the biggest consequence you could ever put someone to the test on... 

if that consequence isn't enough to motivate a change in behavior, you shouldnt want to be with that person anyway.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You haven't given nearly enough info but start here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html

and here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


Here and buy the book:

Married Man Sex Life


Most importantly you have to show strength and let her know you can and will leave her. No whining, begging, pleading crying in front of her.

Print this off and read it with her: 


Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Have you resolved the GPS thing?(You posted that in the other thread). I think you are being blindsided here.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

NotLikeYou said:


> So, once I had educated myself with the above knowledge, I would stop talking to her, period. If the house was in my name, I would surprise her by moving her stuff into the garage and changing the locks, and hiring a divorce lawyer.


Educate yourself on the law first. What you are suggesting, kicking the spouse out and changing the locks, is ILLEGAL regardless of whether or not you own the home. That sort of impulsive, reckless act will cost you bigtime in so many ways, in fact it just might be enough in some jurisdiction to award your spouse temporary exclusive use of the marital home until such time as the divorce is finalized.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't know any more about what her cheating actually was---but from what I am reading, the others here are pretty much on target

Your wife is on her HIGH HORSE, and you are completely allowing it

Why is there a back and forth---from what I understand this is her 2nd indiscretion---if that is so---and you still wanna, try a R.---this is how it goes

You lay down the law---this is your ballgame, played by your rules---SHE GET'S NO INPUT, she gets no comebacks, she gets no arguments, she gets no discussions----IF YOU SAY JUMP, SHE SAYS HOW HIGH

She is answering the way she is cuz she F'ing knows you will do nothing----you can't moan, and groan, and mumble this and that about doing whatever----you TELL HER.

Start with a Post--Nup----move on to NC, move on to her becoming transparent---in everyway---including computer and phone----No social websites---No contact with males, who are NOT friends of your mge.----You get contriteness, and remorse
which she gives, because she wants to---not cuz she thinks she has to-----you dry her up financially

You take command of the situation----you show her CONSEQUENCES, or she will cheat again---I promise you that

If she wants to move along cuz she doesn't like your rules---this is what you tell her

THERE IS THE DOOR, DON'T LET IT HIT YOU IN THE BUTT ON THE WAY OUT.

Become the boss of this mge.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry but he sounds like someone who is still either in some backup relationship or thinking about one. She s saying, shut up about why I did, or I'm dumping you and going to my other relationship full time.

She certainly doesn't sound remorseful, respectful of you, or even slightly patient with you.

Are you sure there isn't something still going on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

180 has held up about as well as can be expected, two weeks from DD. let's call it a modified, slightly angry 180, with one or two lapses.

She texts me today and asks to hang out later tonight. What do you guys think? I am tempted to say yes, and spend the time listening. We haven't talked at all or a week, and I'd like to know what is going on. 

I don't believe there is anything else happening. I believe she has had a couple of hard conversations with her friends and she understands what she has to lose. She is going through fog withdrawal. She says she is right days of NC. I don't know one way or another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If she comes over you need to confront her about the affair. She needs to come clean and tell you everything. No way she only kissed and held hands with her OM.

Remember cheaterspeak:

Holding hands = mutual masturbation

Kissing = oral sex

Cuddling = intercourse

Don't let her minimize or gaslight you. If she refuses to come clean then expose her affair to everyone she knows, expose the OM to his spouse and family, and proceed with legal action. Ask her to leave. Then do a hard 180.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Go ahead and except her offer to spend time together, BUT warn her that you are not completely healed and you still have negitive feeling towards her behavior, and you would love to have her over and help you heal.

Alot will be said if she still wants to see you, it will be interesting to see if she will face this kind of consequence and come over.

I have a feeling she will tell you to forget it, and with that, increase the 180 with out modifications, until she will face this kind of consequence and show you some small sort of remorse by dealing with the negitive aspects that she created.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can't find another thread, anyone know where it is?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Can't find another thread, anyone know where it is?


Not sure what thread you're referring to,but thrwy214 has a thread over at the SI. forum.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Can't find another thread, anyone know where it is?





> Not sure what thread you're referring to,but thrwy214 has a thread over at the SI. forum


. 

Wonder why its not showing up on the OP's profile page?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> .
> 
> Wonder why its not showing up on the OP's profile page?


Geez,sorry man.I meant to say the SI web site.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TBT said:


> Not sure what thread you're referring to,but thrwy214 has a thread over at the SI. forum.


Whats SI?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Whats SI?


suvivinginfidelity.com


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

I am still here guys. This is one infidelity you can accuse ME of - I am both here and at SI. I hope it is forgivable. I need as much help as I can get. 

Here's an update from this morning:

So, it has been a night and morning of conversation. She is clearly in agony over this 180 I have put us on. She is clearly also in regret and rage mode. Nowhere close to remorse. On the other hand, it has done wonders for me. I am sleeping better. I am clear-headed when we talk. The entire time, I wasn't emotional or angry. And I am starting to see a way to a future without her. Very empowering.

I told her by getting a new phone, she is actively working against restoring trust. I told her she still has no compassion for me, and is still looking out only for herself. She says she is in NC, but something tells me she isn't. It seems like she has gotten over him a little too easily. I think her agonizing conversations with me is really cake-eating in display. My conversation with OMW next week will unleash a bit of a test to the NC. Let us see.

I made it clear that her first goal is NC and I hope she is sticking to it. I told her my first goal is control and mastery of my emotions, and building up my psyche. I told her my moving downstairs was a part of that process, that I don't trust her and I refuse to let her hurt me again.

I got gas-lighting, I got rage, I got minimizing to the extreme, I got an alternative theory of how we could reconcile, I got an apology. Thanks to this forum, I looked through all of it. One thing is that I have stopped mincing words - and now call it an AFFAIR, and that she cheated on me. Her responses have been less reactive than they used to be.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Great news bro! The 180 has given you back some control. Your wife is a control freak, and now you have her leaning back on her heels and against the ropes! Don't let up until you get real contrition and true remorse. She and the OM are definitely still in contact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

You say that the 180 has worked as well as can be expected



thrway214 said:


> 180 has held up about as well as can be expected, two weeks from DD


and yet you write:



thrway214 said:


> She is clearly also in regret and rage mode. Nowhere close to remorse.


She's not remorseful, but she IS in a rage, and is "regretful". I get that she's pissed off, but probably because her affair has been thwarted to some extent, and I get that she's not remorseful but I don't see anything in her actions that seems to support "regret". 



thrway214 said:


> I told her by getting a new phone, she is actively working against restoring trust.


She got a new phone and she doesn't let you see it? That says everything. She's not sorry, she's not regretful, and she's not interested in rebuilding your trust, and furthermore she's probably got a really good reason for getting that new phone.. 



thrway214 said:


> I told her she still has no compassion for me, and is still looking out only for herself.


If there was any hope for a save here, you wouldn't have to be telling her all these things. In fact you telling her these things is rather weak.. I strongly suggest you stop telling her how what she's doing affects you. If she cared, she'd stop doing it on her own. She doesn't care, and that's the whole point. 



thrway214 said:


> She says she is in NC, but something tells me she isn't.


She hasn't gone no contact with him, it's obvious and you're seeing what is usually referred to as "the writing on the wall". The only reason you still have doubt is because you're still largely in denial. 



thrway214 said:


> I think her agonizing conversations with me is really cake-eating in display.


She doesn't want to have any conversations with you and talk about "feelings" and "trust" and "working on things" and having to provide you with the requested information about (for example) where she goes, what she does, and who she's doing it with, and why won't she show you her phone. She wants the conversation to be over ASAP so she can get back to thinking about the OM. With him, it's easy, it's fun, it's stimulating, it's exciting, with you, it's a hassle, it's stressful, it's just a real drag.



thrway214 said:


> I made it clear that her first goal is NC and I hope she is sticking to it. I told her my first goal is control and mastery of my emotions, and building up my psyche. I told her my moving downstairs was a part of that process, that I don't trust her and I refuse to let her hurt me again.


Um.. wow. Again, the part about not telling her all this stuff because it makes you come across as really weak and if she cared about you, there would be no need to state the obvious. Telling her you need to "master your emotions and build up your psyche" is like telling the enemy soldiers you've got to restock your ammo because you just ran out. This sort of thing is to be kept to yourself. Be distant, aloof, and strong, not 'I have to get control of myself!". It makes you really unattractive to her and she might even be telling the other man how weak and emotional you are being about this. And that last part, about how you refuse to let her hurt you again? She IS hurting you, every single day that you sit there and take it in the chin and don't step up to the plate and kick her ass to the curb, at least temporarily until she comes around. 



thrway214 said:


> Her responses have been less reactive than they used to be.


That's not a good thing. It means she's disconnecting. It means she's just not bothering anymore. It means she's in 'whatever' mode. Sort of like when I catch my dog doing something she's not supposed to and I yell at her and she looks at me like "ok finish yelling at me so I can go back to whatever it was I was doing before you started bugging me".


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