# Falling for good friends ex-wife



## hopeless11 (Feb 16, 2012)

In the past, I found very useful information on this forum. Fast forward a few years and now I am looking for some more perspective and advice.

I find myself in a tuff situation. I have been friends for 7 years with a friend of mine. I consider him "inner circle" even though we only hang out a couple times a year, with occasional facebook comments. Still, he is a trusted friend.

I met his now ex-wife shortly after my friend and I met and while they were married. She was cool and nice to me, as one would expect since I was friends with her husband. There was NOTHING ELSE between his wife and I EVER.. I will add that I only saw her maybe 3 times that first year, in social settings when she was with my friend, etc.. 

They had a child, who is now almost 6 years old. I have not seen the child since she was a little baby. (I add that only for some perspective)

Five years ago, (when their child was 9 months old) they separated. He broke it off with her and wanted a divorce. From what I do know, it was as amicable as it could be. I do not know the specifics of the divorce, only that he told me that he was not happy. We never really talked about it but I did only ever say, "...just make sure you know what you want and make a decision vs. creating issues and problems for you, her and your daughter, etc..." 

Over the last five years, I know that they have remained good friends primarily a mutual agreement for the sake of their daughter. I respect that a lot and have told him as much, whenever it came up in conversation.

As for his ex-wife. I only remained in social contact with her via social media. Comments on photos, general "Merry Christmas", etc.. Again, nothing more than casual things, which my friend knows about and even said he was fine with and was not strange or anything.

So, fast-forward to now....

They have been now separated for 5+ years and officially divorced for 2+ years (VA requires 1 year separation with a chid and they did try a reconciliation after almost 1 year of the separation. They both told me individually that they did it for their daughter vs. their own emotions towards the other.)

Around September of this past year, her and I started a simple chat via social media on how life is going, what we are up to, etc. I actually initiated the conversation because I wanted to ask her if she could help me out with something related to my career and I was only using my network to see if I could get some help on something. IT WAS A COMPLETELY INNOCENT AND FRIENDLY CONVERSATION. It was no different than any other we have ever had.

We chatted once a week or so about some random things and then in December she suggested we meet up for a drink and we could talk about it. Seemed easy enough to me (and my friend had already said he had no issues with her and I being friends, etc). So, I met her at a place and the time she selected.

It was fun and nice to catch up. Nothing emotional or anything other than like old friends catching up, even though we have never been close directly, it was interesting that she knew so much about me via my friend. 

After that evening, a couple days passed and I sent her a note saying "thanks for the conversation and hoped that it would not be 5 years before we met again.." Then she responded with, "..yes, hopefully very soon..." 

So, it was 2 weeks later and we met again for dinner. Not sure what happened but at some point, something hit me like a ton of bricks. It was an emotion I have trouble describing to this day. It was like being hit by lightning. I think she picked up on it and she seemed to let me know she felt it.

The next day, we spoke on the phone and ended up going out again a week later, on an actual date. Sparing the details, I can say that we have now gone out on 4 dates, speak on the phone for hours daily, have hung out at each others home, talked about relationships, what we want in marriage and life, thoughts on having children, etc... All the things you do when you are in a relationship, which by the way, she has admitted to me she wants with me. Bottom line, there is a connection that we both have found NOW (not before when she was married to my friend or anything). We actually talked about it and admit that we did not have any clue or feelings in the past. It is new for both of us. Now, we have both arrived to a point where we have discussed having a serious relationship. We share some very strong feelings.

Her and I have NEVER talked about him in a mean way nor has she ever asked anything about what he and I have ever discussed, etc. In fact, she told me she did not care and she respects and is concerned that I may lose a friend and worries about that for me. 

I may be selfish but I think the best case scenario would be that he is upset but eventually fine with it. He will see the value in his friend and his ex being happy. He will take some comfort knowing that if things ended in marriage, he already knows the person who would be supportive of his daughter's life, etc..vs. some stranger in the home. I admit a pipedream but I am hopeful for this.

---- 
Couple of questions

1. What are thoughts on the general social rules of not dating an ex of a friend? Personally, I know it has been YEARS since they divorced and my friend left her (and he is now dating her former best friend and told me that he actually loves his new girlfriend of almost 1 year). Personally, I think that we spend time with a person and sometimes those times end. We do not own another person, especially someone we left.

2. I do not want to lose his friendship but I know I must tell him soon. How do I do it? What do I say? I am preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. 

3. Am I really doing something wrong? Personally, I want my friend and would like to pursue a relationship with her. I am willing to take the risk to lose a friend in this situation. I was in a pseudo-similar situation where a good friend dated an ex girlfriend, they got married and had children. It honestly did not affect me at all except he was never available to go out because he was with her... but that is normal.

All thoughts, suggestions, comments are welcome. Just keep it real.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

I don't see any problem with it. As you say, they have now been divorced for years. Let him know, talk about it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*
The relationship was summarily abandoned by him and so very long ago that I honestly don't believe that he could give a rat's ass about her anymore!

Sit down with him and tell him the truth just as you've told us here! I honestly don't think it will make a difference to him other than perhaps for him attempting to offer up the good ol' brotherly advise of "do you know what you're getting yourself into, hoss?"*


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

You say your friend is dating her "former" best friend. Why is she a former friend?

I think you need more information about how and why their marriage came apart even if your friend wasn't involved.

Past is prologue,

Seasalt


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

I think you should give your friends a heads-up, but you don't need his permission and it's not breaking the bro-code or anything. He broke it off with her, is dating her (former) friend (so he'd be hypocritical to be upset with her doing the same), is in love etc. If anything, he should be glad that a potential new guy in his life will be a good guy he knows instead of some random, potentially bad guy.

Best wishes


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## DadOfFour (Mar 13, 2013)

Just out of interest Hopeless11, I take it you have been intimate with this woman? IMO if he really is a good friend you probably should have said something before it became physical but that might just be me. Even if it was my ex wife, (who I did not love anymore) and it was my good friend that was seeing her I would want to know especially if I had a child to her.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think if given a choice you are going to pick love over friendship, if you were really concerned about the friendship you probably would have never let things progress this far with the woman. 

I would contact the friend and just be honest and say you think you and his ex may have a connection and are going to see how things work out. No need to share details or time lines, he is either going to say go for it or get lost a--hole.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I see nothing wrong with what you're doing. Have you asked this woman how she thinks your ex will react?


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## hopeless11 (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and comments. There are a few questions asked of me and a couple rhetorical statements I want to address. Maybe it will help, may make no difference at all.

1. If he is a friend, how did I let this happen? - Honestly, I did not know it was going to happen or was happening until it was done. I have never thought we choose who we are attracted to or who we feel a bond with. In this case, her and I never really knew each other specifically due to the that I only knew her as my friend's wife. Getting to know her and her getting to know me has been a very nice and heart warming experience. Honestly, it blows my mind why anyone would leave a woman like her, which I know is only my opinion because we "click." 

2. Have we been intimate? (and I should tell him first). - I do not kiss and tell but I can tell you that her and I both agreed to be tested for STDs before we go all the way. I have been tested, she is going next week.... I never thought about putting a rule on it and saying, "We have to tell, before we get physical." These things just happen and are not planned. I am not sure what difference it makes but I do find it to be an interesting point that I would be happy to hear more about.

3. Why they broke up in the first place...? I do know that they have opposite and strong views on politics, social and cultural issues. I also know that he once told me that he should have never gotten married because they were more friends than anything else. I also know that he said she was "lame" in bed and/or seemed frigid. Basically, he was not happy.

4. Dating her (former) best-friend? How, why? - Long story short, my friend and wife were close with another couple whom were their neighbors. Shared family outings, they both have children the same age, etc. The other couple are not separated (not yet divorced) and for the last year my friend has been seeing the other woman. The reason that they are no longer friends is because, just as I, she found out through the grapevine AND it was her BEST FRIEND. She said she feels betrayed since she told me that her best friend knows EVERYTHING about her feelings, thoughts, emotions over divorce, her ex, etc. She also said that when she confronted her about it, the ex best friend basically said nothing at all. Finally, there is some evidence that her ex-friend's husband found that suggests that my friend was actually messing around with the other woman while the other woman was still living with her now estranged husband, etc. All this I find shocking...but I do not judge.

5. How does she think he will react? She does not know but I think he will take it out on her vs. me, which is my concern. If he wants to take some verbal cheap shots at me, that is fine. If he takes a swing, depending on how the conversation before the swing occurs, I may allow one swing. If he just says "F You" and goes silent, ok. If he starts harassing her or giving her a hard time, I will be intervene somehow. He may just simply be ok with it, but she does not think he will be happy since she was not happy when it was the other way around. (even though slightly different situation as far as the depth of the relationship with her bestie vs. he and I.)


As a new bit of information, she said that he randomly called her two weeks ago and asked her if she is dating someone. Then this week, he told her that he would be sure to comment on future pictures of her and include my name... (guess he knows something....)

The bad part about this is that I have been seeing a completely different side of my friend. He is running around with a married woman (he explicitly told me she was divorced), he is very controlling and possessive over his ex-wife, etc. Seems very out of character for how I think I know him. It sort of puts things in to perspective on how close he and I are regardless of her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Just tell him that you've recently gotten interested in his ex and intend to date her. You just wanted him to hear it from you and not through gossip, and hope he doesn't have a problem with it. (If he does - unlikely - at worst you'll lose a friend, I think.)

Perhaps you should worry more about whether her was right about her. What if she IS lame in bed? Or maybe that's not very important, or maybe their chemistry just wasn't there. I guess you'll find out.

When I left my ex, I didn't care who - or if - she dated. If it had been one of my friends, that would have raised some concerns - for the friend's well-being.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't see a problem with romancing this woman. You absolutely NEED to get the dirt on why their marriage failed.

She needs to be clear about her failings as well as her exes and how she might have grown and changed since her divorce.

It might not hurt for both of you to discuss general history as well.

Don't want to run into any other exes unaware. Taking your time and putting in the work, I don't see why your relationship can't work.

You might lose your friend. From your tale, he is starting to seem like a dyck.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You should have given him the heads up before dating her.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Is your male friend a decent person and generally sane?
If so, wouldn't it be logical to assume he'd have to have very pressing reasons for divorcing her, especially when their baby was only 9 months old? I could almost live with the devil before I'd leave my 9 month infant. 
I know she seems like a great person. They all do. That's the trap. Your friend actually lived with her and you haven't. 
Here's the way I'd approach the matter.
If my male friend was generally a turd of a human being, I'd seriously consider exploring a relationship with this woman.
If my male friend was generally a decent sort, I'd assume there was some major malfunction with this woman that I just didn't know about. I believe I'd make a point of discussing this with my male friend before getting my emotions and hormones involved. Once hormones and emotions come into play, rationality takes a vacation and we end up making stupid decisions. I can positively guarantee that you want no part of any woman I've had to send to the curb. Other men have tried and they found out exactly what I already knew. If I ever had to send one packing along with my infant child, you would do well to cross the street to avoid her.
I have known men who weren't decent sorts and who tossed out perfectly acceptable women with kids. That is why knowing about your friend's character is important. I have the patience of Job. If I couldn't stand living with a woman, it's doubtful that anything with a penis could. Again, things would have to be pretty damned awful for me to walk away from a wife AND my infant child. I'd be curious to know just what sort of living hell the man was going through to provoke such a move on his part (assuming he's basically a decent guy with reasonably sound character and reasonable intelligence). If he's not those things, you probably need better friends.


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## hopeless11 (Feb 16, 2012)

Honestly, never thought about it that way. Thanks for the point of view I have not considered. I guess I could try to ask him as I tell him that her and I have been talking and getting to know each other. I think I have a whole entire set of new questions to consider regarding the previous situation.

Given the other issues, such as some perceived infidelity and what I have always recognized as narcissistic traits in him, it may be entirely possible that he is just self-centered. I do not judge him for that as I have been told I can be that way and I think that many men do have some of those traits due to culture and social constructs, albeit some less apparent and many times considered chauvinistic or "typical male" by many.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

dude you should've told your friend before going on a date with his ex ....what kind of friend are you ?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Notice how you are starting to find fault with this friend? Funny how the mind will work you into thinking you're making the right decision to be dating this woman by disparaging your old pal. Regardless i think the time for worrying about how the friend will react is long past, you are already involved with his ex.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

You said i'm afraid he will feel betrayed. Really??
of course he's gonna feel betrayed and you probably will lose this friend and every mutual friend you guys have. This is really not ok


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Friends are secondary when it comes to poonani! Hahaha!&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If she becomes your girlfriend or partner, you may even see him because of their child. He should have gotten over her a long time ago. She did not break his heart. They parted, recognizing their incompatibility. No big deal.


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)

He probably won't be happy about it :rofl: just guessing here


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Guy code, ex of a " good friend", especially one they had children with is off limits. Love to hear from women on this one. No way they would be cool with a good friend dating their ex husband.


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Ok, love is a wonderful thing but each time there is a break up or divorce, a person would like to find the spouse's ex to check the reason the marriage did not hold longer. Usually when problems start, a person goes to the ex to vent and double check if he/she noticed the same issues and if it was the same reasons they divorced. Your best friend should be the person who would warn or encourage you before you start dating his ex. You seems like you are in love and nothing will stop you. However, like others said, I think you should talk to your best friend first before being serious with this relationship. There is a serious reason they divorced, since the ex is your best friend you should talk to him first to make sure this is what you want, before taking this too far.


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

richie33 said:


> Guy code, ex of a " good friend", especially one they had children with is off limits. Love to hear from women on this one. No way they would be cool with a good friend dating their ex husband.


I don't think I'd consider it a betrayal if a friend dated my ex. But I'd strongly warn them against it - I left him for good reasons and wouldn't wish him on a good friend. 

I think you should talk to your friend. You don't have to ask his permission, but at least see what happened between them. The divorce may have seemed amicable, but some couples keep the uglier parts to themselves. You might not know the whole story.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I think that if you're really falling in love with this woman, that's more important than your friendship. And I don't think there's anything immoral/unethical/against the "code" about what you're doing either. However, you never know how your friend will feel about it, and you just have to be prepared to face the consequences. He may be cool about it, or he may not be, you can't always have everything go your way.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

My XH dated and married a friend of "us". She was part of a group of friends of ours, not a close friend to me, but I moved away from that bunch when we had separated anyway. I had no concerns about my XH going out with her, in fact it was good, I already knew her, like, she's a known quantity. She's been a great Stepmum for my DD, and we get on fine at big occasions like DDs birthdays.


If this friend of yours has a problem with you dating his XW, IMO, its his problem. You may lose him as a friend but sounds like he's not a close friend anyway. 

I'm not sure about any guy-code on this, but I think that's a bit juvenile myself.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

So you consider this guy to be a close friend, but you're not too concerned about losing him if it means getting his ex. That's kind of problematic, but let's ignore that and think long term:

Things work out between you and his ex, you decide to get married. Then, you technically become his child's step-father. If he holds any resentment towards you, this can be a HUGE issue. As the step-father you're going to have to exhibit at least some degree of authority, and if the kid's going off to dad's every few days or every weekend, whatever, he might not be able to keep his mouth shut when his kid is talking about you. He could successfully turn the kid against you if he really wanted to. 

Even if he doesn't turn the kid against you, I imagine you'd be in fairly frequent contact with the father. If you guys can't quit fighting about it, if the father can't quit fighting with his ex about it, etc, that is not the kind of environment you'd want this kid to be growing up in where there's no harmony between his parents.

Of course, best case scenario is that your friend doesn't mind because it has been a long time since the divorce, he might even prefer that someone he knows well and trusts is going to be his kid's stepfather. I just think that the #1 thing you should keep in mind is this kid.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Deep Down said:


> My XH dated and married a friend of "us". She was part of a group of friends of ours, not a close friend to me, but I moved away from that bunch when we had separated anyway. I had no concerns about my XH going out with her, in fact it was good, I already knew her, like, she's a known quantity. She's been a great Stepmum for my DD, and we get on fine at big occasions like DDs birthdays.
> 
> 
> If this friend of yours has a problem with you dating his XW, IMO, its his problem. You may lose him as a friend but sounds like he's not a close friend anyway.
> ...


OP didnt describe an acquaintance like you are.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> You said i'm afraid he will feel betrayed. Really??
> of course he's gonna feel betrayed and you probably will lose this friend and every mutual friend you guys have. This is really not ok


Why is he going to feel betrayed? He and his wife divorced FIVE YEARS AGO. He doesn't own her. He's not married to her. If he feels put down by what she's doing now, perhaps he shouldn't have been so quick to divorce her?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You start out by saying that he is a good friend (inner circle etc) and then progress and then progress to make him out to be a [email protected]! Sounds very much like you are trying to justify your actions.

You say you very much want your friend to continue to be a friend and then later you say "not really" as I am in love with his ex-wife and mother of his child.

Of course there is a strong chance he is going to feel betrayed and angry at you. You should have spoken with him before starting this (and don't say that you didn't mean this to happen and that it hit you out of the blue - you had plenty of opportunity to tell him what was happening before you dated his ex).

And you don't really know why they divorced and haven't really had a discussion with your "friend" about this. There could be all kinds of resentment brewing. And I am also surprised that his ex wife doesn't see potential problems here (or just doesn't care ?).

And I agree with others that are saying there are potential problems with you being his kid's stepfather.

I am not saying that the two of you shouldn't date or be together - I am saying that you should have spoken with your friend first. This is not the kind of behaviour I would expect from my good friends.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

sidney2718 said:


> Why is he going to feel betrayed? He and his wife divorced FIVE YEARS AGO. He doesn't own her. He's not married to her. If he feels put down by what she's doing now, perhaps he shouldn't have been so quick to divorce her?


this is about the friendship, it's not ok to date your friend ex without even telling him so he's gonna just tell him one day that he is the step dad of his son ?


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## hopeless11 (Feb 16, 2012)

Well, I guess everyone has a perspective and I appreciate the thoughts.

I am going to tell him soon. While maybe right or wrong as to when and how her and I went out and spend any time together, her and I spoke about it at length and both agreed that it would be better to spend a little time together before introducing any potential drama for anyone. 

I thought about the fact that I seem to "disparage" him in some way. That is not the case. To be quite honest, I really wish I did not know or hear some of the things I did. I was surprised vs. judgmental of his actions. My intent in pointing things out was whether or not he would care about what I do, given he accepts it for himself. There may be some truth to me thinking it up since I have some hang up or want some sort of validation. Honestly, 90% of those who responded and whom I have spoken to, say the timing is less that optimal, but there is no intent to harm and certainly nothing that resembles trying to sneak in or which should seem as though I have just been waiting around or whatever. Not after 5 years and both of them having relationships after their divorce, etc. I am comfortable with that.

I asked her about why they divorced and she basically told me the same things he said to me many years ago. We all have some sort of issue or baggage. I appreciate the one post about her having a problem. Honestly, we all break up with someone in our lives. Does not mean the other is bad, just bad for us. I will say, however, that I do maintain a keen eye and watch out just in case, so thanks for the advice on that aspect. Time will tell.

I also asked her how she thought he would react. She said that he probably would not care except for the fact that she flipped out when she found out he was hooking up and dating her married best friend. (1. she is married, 2. they are/were current best friends.) While not the same situation, he will probably provide the medicine back at her and me for spite. Absent that, she said she was not sure but most likely would not care too much and be fine with it. I am not sure it is that easy, but she seemed to have thought it out. She even said that she would be happy to speak with him... obviously, I objected and told her absolutely not! It is my thing to do, not hers. She just wants it to be peaceful and absent drama. She has even mentioned wanting to reached out to her best friend to talk about their situation and how to move on. She told me she does not care if her best friend is dating him, it was more about her best friend knowing EVERYTHING and then running around for 3 months and causing so much pain to her husband and child vs. leaving one and starting a new, etc.. 

As I told her, ultimately, how he reacts is up to him. I get that maybe he may be something other than non-responsive, but I can not control that. In the end, I really worry about the impacts on the child and how he acts, etc. It was a very good point regarding his actions and position on how he may influence the child. Coming from a "broken" home myself, I understand how that can work and happen. I am not trying to replace him. I have been with women with children. My role, in my opinion, is to be a supportive parental figure in a stable environment. Not to replace anyone, just support the family. Whatever form that takes, is what it will be.

Guess I will find out how is plays out soon enough. I will post an update when it plays out so we can all learn something.

Thanks again.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Not saying this is happening, but could she be dating you to get back at her ex for being with her best friend?


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## hopeless11 (Feb 16, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> Not saying this is happening, but could she be dating you to get back at her ex for being with her best friend?


Absolutely seemed a possibility and I thought about that a lot. Gut tells me that is not the case given many "signs" and things I have seen and she has said. 

I actually asked her that and while she said "no" it was more about how she said no vs. the words. Good suggestion though and one that I kicked around for a bit. I still could be wrong but it does not cross my mind as it did, given the aforementioned points.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

I've been divorced for 5 years, and I wouldn't give a chit who my ex dates. If one of my buddy's and her got along really well, and they wanted to start a relationship, it's none of my business. As long as he's cool to my kids, it's doesn't concern me.

The ex has no say on who you date, and likewise.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> this is about the friendship, it's not ok to date your friend ex without even telling him so he's gonna just tell him one day that he is the step dad of his son ?


I don't think it is about the friendship. It is about his wife. And the original husband doesn't own her.

I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

The ex husband certainly doesn't own his ex-wife, that is true.

But how about asking your "good friend" of many years whether he might have any issues in your dating his ex-wife as common courtesy if for no other reason ?

Does this not hold any weight or is it a question of when it comes to satisfying one's loins, friendship (and the common courtesy that goes with it) goes out the window ?

Even when they were not married, I would always clear it with a friend if I wanted to date an ex-gf of his. Or at least give him a heads up first. If I have to explain why, then I can only wonder at what kind of friendships some guys have.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

And this is compounded when your good friend has a kid with the woman - there is no way I would not tell a friend first in this case!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The man who would basically raise my kid would be of great interest to me. If no child was involved, anyone who wanted to knock boots with one of my exes would be more than welcome. Then again, friends don't let friends marry evil bats. If this seemingly short marriage met an unhappy end because your friend is some raving narcissist, you might keep in mind that half is DNA is bundled up in that baby and you will be dealing with some of those lovely tendencies. Should be loads of laughs when the kid hits 16. 
A decision to seriously get involved with this woman is a no-crap lifetime decision. I married a woman with a 3 year old son many years ago. We stayed married about 5 years. The son stayed with me and he's 35, now. You'd also be signing on to your male friend's life for the rest of your lifes because he'll be at graduations, weddings, birth of grandchildren. You'll know his drama and he'll know about your's. Once a child is involved, you never completely leave an ex until dirt gets thrown into someone's eyes.


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