# Ex-wife wants to be "buddies".



## SamuraiJack

Well here goes…my first post.
So I am the former husband of a walk away wife. Plain and simple. 

Once the fog lifted I realized what a mediocre marriage we had and how very self-centered she was.
This lovely gal that I had married had suddenly(?) turned into a near 300 pound work/World of Warcraft addict who would yell at me that I was “not my freaking father” when I asked her to come to bed. There had been the traditional silence for a several months while she shopped for houses for her mother…which I later found out was her shopping for herself.
I have abandonment issues from way back (lost nearly all relatives and my mom at 10-12 years old) and I did what I thought I needed to do and fought for my marriage as hard as I could. I didn’t want my kids coming from a broken home. I tried very hard to do the 180…didn’t quite do it. Most of the time I was able to pull it off, but then something small would come up and it would gradually escalate between us until she was practically screaming at me through email.

She filed just to surprise me. Nice surprise, eh? 

I don’t know if she actually cheated or not, but she showed a lot of the signs. I’m thinking it was mostly likely an emotional affair cause she had withdrawn from me almost completely.
I started dating after she told me that I needed to go date people and telling me she was in love with someone. Lots of crazies and I resigned myself that it might be a while. Okay.
Then I met my current GF. What a breath of fresh air! She recognized I was wounded but a good man and stood by patiently while I realized how battered I actually was. She introduced me to the Four Agreements and let me do my thing. She did just what I wanted which was to just let me be “me”.
I will have been with her almost 2 ½ years in a month or two. No big fights or drama.

Now… present day.
Things have been “okay” between me and the ex. I basically placed her on no contact since she would use little things to Segway into arguments. I try to keep it to a minimum unless it’s about the kids. My daughters are the best thing to come out of this. A friend thinks she still wants to engage me…be it negative or positive. I tend to agree.

She still doesn’t understand that having her lie to me for upwards of eight months (“No, nothing’s wrong.”) and plotting her abrupt exit was the worst type of betrayal I have ever experienced. It was made even worse by her basically taking out all of the sins of the men in her life on me while she exited. She says she “is sad because I have stated that I don’t ever see not being angry at her for the way she left.” She has this idea that we are going to be the parents who “get along just swell”.
I, on the other hand, cannot forgive the abuse and the callous way she treated me. I can forgive the divorce. What I can’t forgive is the absolute lack of input I had in any of it. She broke up with me (15 years of marriage) by email. Things just went downhill from there. I honestly don’t think I can ever trust her again and I’m not even certain what I would do given a chance to.

I could write a book on this …friends have said I should. 

So my question is…Has anyone ever had an ex like this? If so, how did you let it go or at least get them to understand that you don’t want to be friends with anyone who would hurt them so badly?


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## EnjoliWoman

Just that. If she tries to act friendly, just redirect the conversation to what needs to be discussed or cut her off and say you have to go. Eventually she will get the hint and if she presses you by asking why you can't be friendly, tell her that REAL friends do not hurt and deceive each other and the only place she has in your life is as your kids' mother, not as a friend. If she starts to argue or comment or justify, interrupt with a simple "that's how I feel" and leave/hang up. If she approaches the topic again, "I already told you. You did not treat me the way real friends treat each other, therefore we will never be friends. Bye."

Even when friends have to tell a friend something they know will be received as hurtful, a friend will do it gently and kindly. She didn't behave that way. I imagine she has lots of her own issues and doubt the affair was physical and the guy has/had no idea she was 300 lbs. (Unless he's into that.)

I've had an ex who liked to get me to engage. I put a post-it by the phone with that written on it. Even with a few 'cues' such as "If we are done discussing [blank], I'm going to hang up now". And I avoided in-person meetings as much as possible.

ETA - even tho my ex likely would not choose to sit next to me, at school functions I made certain to sit somewhere where there was not an empty seat beside me.


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## BetrayedDad

SamuraiJack said:


> This lovely gal that I had married had suddenly(?) turned into a near 300 pound work/World of Warcraft addict


I think you're looking at this all wrong. It sounds like she did you a favor. Now you're not trapped with this fat slob anymore and you got to upgrade to your current gf out of the deal. 




SamuraiJack said:


> She broke up with me (15 years of marriage) by email.


That's cold man... Sorry. My ex wants to be "buddies" too. Annoys the sh!t out of me. As mentioned, she also treated me like garbage too. I wouldn't act towards strangers the way she treated me, her husband, even from just a human decency standpoint. 

Karma my friend. It really does exist and they will get their's eventually. Just let her wallow in her own misery and don't give her the satisfaction of being her pal.


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## Shooboomafoo

Some aren't truly looking for "friendship" or "maintaining a platonic relationship for the sake of the kids".... its pure and simple keeping tabs. What part of any of your past with this woman , would lead you to believe it was "friends" she is looking for? 
She wants dirt... dirt to make herself feel better, or to get full custody or (it gets worse)....


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## SamuraiJack

It may very well be keeping tabs. She made an odd reference to my girlfriend as "my current predicament"...and odd choice of words.
I should also add that she started working out just after her 39th birthday to the tune of 240 dollars a week. Hired a personal trainer and everything. I was like "Sure, if thats what makes you happy".

It's very difficult because we basically only communicate through email and even a small quip can turn into a huge reaction from her.

I remember once answering her with a word or two and she gave me back a three page email with how I was so cold and uncaring. In the meantime, Im sitting there thinking "Wait...WHO left who?":scratchhead:

The other side of it is that she knows my buttons SSOOOOO well. She knows that I have a curious and inquisitive mind and hates getting half ideas. I have caught her "seeding" concepts in my head in her emails...because she knows I hate not knowing.
For the most part, I have been able to calmly study them.

Much like the marriage, however, I feel that I am being pressured or told that my reactions are not okay and that I dont have the right to be angry, mistrusting or wary of her motivations. IT's like she wants to "rush ahead" to a possible point in time where Im not angry with her for her actions.

To me this is unacceptable but discussion of it invariably turns into conflict. 

Like always...she has always been good at putting me into a bind.


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## Hoosier

Simple advice here: Quit worrying why she does this or why so does that, even IF (and that's a big if) you could get her to explain, probably would not make any sense. 
When my xw left me after 30 years I spent 18 months thinking of questions I would have for her, things I wanted her to know, how she hurt me etc. I soon realized that talking to her (and the way she rewrote our history) was like talking to a brick wall and about as useful. I have since decided that even if I were to run into her again (have not seen her for two years) I would simply just walk the other way. You would not believe how freeing this knowledge is. It is not easy to do, detach. But it is the best way to handle it. 
Remember, the best revenge is to live well. the opposite of love is not anger but indifference. Do it dude! Good luck to you.


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## Dread Pirate Roberts

SamuraiJack said:


> The other side of it is that she knows my buttons SSOOOOO well. She knows that I have a curious and inquisitive mind and hates getting half ideas. I have caught her "seeding" concepts in my head in her emails...because she knows I hate not knowing.
> For the most part, I have been able to calmly study them.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Like always...she has always been good at putting me into a bind.


I'd say you have your answer right there, Samurai. Until you're able to simply not care who/what she does, if you keep contact with her beyond the bare minimum for your kids, then this is never going to stop.

I think others have said it better than me, but from here it just looks like she wants to keep tabs on you and control you from afar. I had a similar situation with my ex, though I was the one that filed and left. She would send emails or texts just trying to provoke things, and I will admit to responding to her lunacy. Which made me feel better for a little bit, but it gave her exactly what she wanted. Finally after a couple of months I wised up, told her to contact me only regarding issues with the kids. After a couple of texts after that, I blocked her from texting completely. I also ignored all emails not directly related to the kids. No answer or smart ass retort, just silence. And that's all I can recommend to you.

Good Luck!

DPR


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## lifeistooshort

Samurijack, let me give this to you in woman speak. What you have here is an extension of the fairy tale syndrome, where a woman doesn't want you but wants to think you're pining away for her. Such an ego boost! I'm soooooo important that the guy I dumped can't move on because he can't get over me. Her referring to your gf as your "current predicament" proves this; in her eyes gf is just a little blip while SHE'S your one true love.

And your insistence on getting the whole story will be viewed by your gf as either you still being emotionally invested or you have poor boundaries or both. Stop reacting to her emails and rants and ignore them. If I had seen this kind of drama between my hb and his ex I would've dumped him. If you still give a sh!t what she thinks you're still invested. Detach now before you mess up your new relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HobbesTheTiger

Hi.

I'm glad things have improved.

I would take a more clear stance with your xW - tell her you two are co-parents, but that you don't think it's appropriate for you two to be friends, especially considering both your and potentially any her new partners. Tell her to not e-mail you about anything other than your daughters, and that you will not reply to anything else.

Talk to your GF, make sure she knows how important she's to you, and how there's no chance you still want to be with your ex. Reassure her often, I'm sure it must be extremely hard for her to know you're in touch with your ex. Give her the password to your email, so she can read the correspondence at any time she needs to be reassured.

Also, have you considered counselling, both for yourself and for your daughters? I'm asking because counselling has helped me tremendously when I started in my 20s, and I wish I had started when I was much much younger.

Best wishes!


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## LongWalk

How old are your children? Do you share physical custody?

What do they say about mom?

Three hundred pounds? Unhealthy and unattractive. Fair to say she not well. Sounds like a BPDer.


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## Jellybeans

I think a lot of people have dealt with this before post-divorce.

My advice is to just keep your boundaries. Yo don't have to be more of a friend than you want to. Keep co-parenting with her and don't be friendly in other instances (don't be UNfriendly but you know what I mean). 

What are the Four Agreeements? Sounds like a video game.


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## SamuraiJack

LongWalk said:


> How old are your children? Do you share physical custody?
> 
> What do they say about mom?
> 
> Three hundred pounds? Unhealthy and unattractive. Fair to say she not well. Sounds like a BPDer.


I share 50% custody. they are with me every other week. She actually bought a house on their bus route back when she was filling my head with the possibility of us getting back together and it "was only temporary".

They have nothing bad to say about her. She turned into a version of plastic that I despise but she treats the kids well, so I cant complain. I keep putting her on NC but she eventually breaks it and sends me something that has nothing to do with anything. For the most part I ignore them.
This last one was me not being able to resist a shot. 
She had stocks that her company gave her as a bonus and I was due my share. Instead I told her to hang onto them and use my half for each of the kids college fund.
She wrote me a few times about her company being sold and I ignored that. Then she forwarded a letter to me from their financial manager saying that all the stock was under water so it was worthless. She noted it saying "Well it was nice to think it would have amounted to something. Guess it kept me around"
To which I replied "Just like my marriage..."

Nothing else.
Of course I knew that would get a rise out of her, but I was a little miffed that she was trying to use me for emotional support when she had rejected me so soundly before.

She was close to 300 when she hit her 39th birthday, complaining of pain in her sides, then she started hitting the gym and spending a lot on money on clothes all the while staying up late on her computer.
Im thinking MLC or affair.

Tonight we have a group event where my daughter is in chorus. She will be offended that I dont sit with her, but as I have explained to her before, we arent partners and we dont need to show any solidarity. My children know I am in their corner and thats all that counts.
She says that Im not demonstrating the proper co-parenting. I say I am teaching the girls that you dont let someone roll over you and not distance yourself from them.
If somebody treats you like crap...you dont stick around.


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## Jellybeans

Stop engaging her on anything unrelated to co-parenting.

You do not have to sit with her tonight. You don't have to be her "buddy."


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## Jellybeans

SamuraiJack said:


> She says that Im not demonstrating the proper co-parenting. I* say I am teaching the girls that you dont let someone roll over you and not distance yourself from them.*
> If somebody treats you like crap...you dont stick around.


STOP engaging her. Seriously. When she said that all you needed to say was "I am sorry you feel that way but I don't feel it is necessary to sit with you" and walk away.

You are still in the anger phase. And until you realize that what she says/does doesn't matter anymore, you are going to be stuck in this holding pattern.

How long were you divorced before you got into your new relationship? Have you dealt with the aftermath of your marriage before getting involved with someone else?


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## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> I think a lot of people have dealt with this before post-divorce.
> 
> My advice is to just keep your boundaries. Yo don't have to be more of a friend than you want to. Keep co-parenting with her and don't be friendly in other instances (don't be UNfriendly but you know what I mean).
> 
> What are the Four Agreeements? Sounds like a video game.


The Four Agreements is a book about 4 key agreements people need to understand about themselves. Its a very easily accessible read and is a true gem of knowledge and wisdom.
I highly reccomend this to anyone working on themselves.


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## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans, thats the weird thing. She wont say anything about it tonight. She will just smile or look away. Then, IF she decides to engage ( it's sort of random or at least a trigger I havent identified), I will hear about it later in an email.

I can never tell when she will decide to start up. That little quip I made has been my only lapse this year.
I just find it annoying that she wants to fast forward to some future point where "everybody gets along".

You are right. I am still angry and her prodding for me "not to be" feels like invalidation and a feeble attempt to get her to feel better about what she did. 

Personally, I think she thinks if we get to that spot then she can rationalize her behavior and give herself a free pass by saying "it all worked out in the end".
I have even said as much to her that year that I needed to work through my anger and that I will do it at my own pace. 

She agreed and said she would leave me alone, but that doesnt stop her from contacting me.


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## Jellybeans

And you don't have to respond.


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## SamuraiJack

I know...but as I am sure you are aware, when you were with someone for so long...sometimes it hard not to.


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## Rowan

SamuraiJack said:


> I know...but as I am sure you are aware, when you were with someone for so long...sometimes it hard not to.


And that's exactly what she's banking on. That she can push your buttons and you'll react. That the connection is still there. That she still has a hold on you that you haven't been able to shake. 

It's like emotional crack for her, that ability to know she still "has" you. That you're still hers in some way, even against your will. You're a juicy source of narcissistic supply for all her emotional vampirism needs. 

The only thing that's going to work is you becoming - or at least pretending to be - apathetic toward her, and thus immune to her overtures. You need to cultivate polite, jovial, apathy. The kind where you don't engage with her on a personal level in any way. The kind where her attempts to push your buttons make no perceptible impact on you at all. It takes self-control, but as you stop reacting she'll most likely (unless she's a real bunny-boiler) get bored and her attention will move on to other things with more emotional payoff. You have to stop being a source of narcissistic supply for her.


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## SamuraiJack

Rowan said:


> And that's exactly what she's banking on. That she can push your buttons and you'll react. That the connection is still there. That she still has a hold on you that you haven't been able to shake.
> 
> It's like emotional crack for her, that ability to know she still "has" you. That you're still hers in some way, even against your will. You're a juicy source of narcissistic supply for all her emotional vampirism needs.
> 
> The only thing that's going to work is you becoming - or at least pretending to be - apathetic toward her, and thus immune to her overtures. You need to cultivate polite, jovial, apathy. The kind where you don't engage with her on a personal level in any way. The kind where her attempts to push your buttons make no perceptible impact on you at all. It takes self-control, but as you stop reacting she'll most likely (unless she's a real bunny-boiler) get bored and her attention will move on to other things with more emotional payoff. You have to stop being a source of narcissistic supply for her.


So...I need to give less than a Phuck....

I figured as much, but I was secretly hoping for someone to whip out some hidden bit of wisdom.


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## lifeistooshort

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear but you're not ready to be dating. You still have too much anger and are still too emotionally invested in your ex and the marriage. It's not fair to your current gf. Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SamuraiJack

lifeistooshort,
This may well be true. But I will remind you that you are basing your observations on less than 5% of the situation. Its very easy to fill in the blanks with your own perspective and come up with answer that is really more meaningful to you.

But thank you for your observations. I have had this conversation several times with my GF and she understands how my ex works and has every confidence in my ability to manage it. She understands it's a notable evil when it comes to the kids. 

To address your question, I DID enter the dating pool too early and I fully acknowledge that. I was intending to just do light dating. I had no intention of getting into anything serious. My head was relatively clear, though, having gone through some pretty intense IC. We met, clicked very smoothly, and enjoyed a lovely courtship. We tested our reactions as we are both wary of giving into unmet childhood needs and decided that it was worth a shot. Our love langauges are nearly identical and we are both survivors of some pretty rough stuff and use that to be gentle with the other person.

We discussed if it was worth pursueing and we laid out as many different scenes as we could. In the end we decided it was worth it.

But I think we are the exception to the rule when it comes to timing...or just very, very lucky


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## survivorwife

SamuraiJack said:


> So...I need to give less than a Phuck....
> 
> I figured as much, but I was secretly hoping for someone to whip out some hidden bit of wisdom.


And now for some hidden bit of wisdom. 

You can "think" anything you want. You can "imagine" any scenario that brings a smile to your face, because in your imaginary scenarios, you are always one up on her.

And you can move forward, knowing that you have already invested too much in that dead relationship and it is now time to move on. In short, do not engage her. She isn't worthy.

I was married for almost 30 years, so from the "been there - done that" department, I have nothing to say to my ex at all. Our son is grown and on his own, so there are no parenting issues that we need to discuss. That leaves nothing else to talk about.

I can never be buddies with my Ex. I will never be buddies with my Ex. He got his 30 years. Not one more moment do I owe him or do I wish to share with him. 

When you find yourself truly "over", you will know the "hidden bit of wisdom" and it will be easy not to engage her at all.


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## michzz

Only speak to her regarding the children. And even then, about specific subjects like when are they coming over.

If there are school communications, etc.

No chitchat!

if you go to kid-oriented event, avoid sitting by her unless it is not possible.

A year ago my ex tried to get all buddy-buddy at our son's indie movie event and wanted to sit by me and do small talk.

I couldn't do it, no way!

I flew from Denver to SF just for the event. I kept it about seeing my kids, not her.

I saw no way after the movie to get out of dealing with her negatively so I left.

It annoyed our daughter, who also was there. But my son knew why I did it.

I didn't want to rent any more space to that woman.

She thinks we can be friends, I know we never can be.


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## tulsy

I've dealt with this crap too. My ex-wife would act friendly one minute, then stab me in the back the next minute. If she ever needed anything, she would just assume I would help her, and that she never needed to thank me for anything. When she would be single she would hit on me and tell me how I was the best lay of her life, compliment my package, etc. Then when she would have trouble with our sons she would blame me. She even successfully helped destroy my relationship with my parents. I could on and on...

I finally realized she would never change and NC means just that; NO CONTACT. I will not talk to her on the phone, only email or text, and usually through my kids, not even direct. If I see her at a school event I don't even look at her, I look right through her. I'm never letting her use me or hurt me again...ever.

If I could recommend anything, try for as little possible contact. If she emails you about anything other than your kids, don't even reply. Sometimes, I used to write a reply, but send it to my girlfriend instead so I could vent without giving my ex the time of day. This would also help my girlfriend understand the kind of person I was dealing with and the effect it had on me. 

If she emails you about the kids but puts in other stuff, only reply about the kid stuff, completely ignore the rest.

NC. Best medicine.

I don't want her for a friend...I know who she is; she showed me.


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## lifeistooshort

Hey Samuri, I can only use what you've provided to formulate a judgment. If it is only 5 percent that's relevant information you should have provide d. Either way if you've discussed this with your gf and she's in with eyes open that's between you two.

I just got the impression you're still quite angry with your ex, which suggests you're still emotionally invested. It's normal, everyone moves at their own pace. But if it's not true please accept my apology, though I do think you should do engaging and responding to her. My ex took plenty of shots at me too for quite some time and I ignored him. Eventually it stopped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard

SamuraiJack said:


> The Four Agreements is a book about 4 key agreements people need to understand about themselves. Its a very easily accessible read and is a true gem of knowledge and wisdom.
> I highly reccomend this to anyone working on themselves.


EXCELLENT book.


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## Thundarr

Samurai,
she sounds like a piece of work. She did you a favor by leaving because who would want the self absorbed drama circling her. It's all about her after all. But you have the unpleasant task of her being your coparent-partner. At least that's all you have to deal with her on. That being said, I think you let her suck you into her drama on occasion. 

I always felt like my EX was a good co-parent who loved our kids even though she was a terrible wife (to me). Yes sometimes I'd act interested in whatever she was venting but I really wasn't. To me it was about the kids and nothing more. And one day this will seem small. I know don't have any ill will toward my EX but we split two decades ago. Life's too short to worry about things like that.


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## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> She still doesn’t understand that having her lie to me for upwards of eight months (“No, nothing’s wrong.”) and plotting her abrupt exit was the worst type of betrayal I have ever experienced. It was made even worse by her basically taking out all of the sins of the men in her life on me while she exited.
> 
> She says she “is sad because I have stated that I don’t ever see not being angry at her for the way she left.” She has this idea that we are going to be the parents who “get along just swell”.
> I, on the other hand, cannot forgive the abuse and the callous way she treated me. I can forgive the divorce. What I can’t forgive is the absolute lack of input I had in any of it. She broke up with me (15 years of marriage) by email. Things just went downhill from there. I honestly don’t think I can ever trust her again and I’m not even certain what I would do given a chance to.
> 
> So my question is…Has anyone ever had an ex like this? If so, how did you let it go or at least get them to understand that you don’t want to be friends with anyone who would hurt them so badly?


Hi

It seems to me that perhaps you are still intrigued / or amazed by her past behaviour and are still in shock horror as to how on earth your marriage lasted 15 years when she acted so selfishly and destroyed everything you thought you had built up together.

If you were manipulated and were always lied to and never got any truths out of her when you were married, she may think this game will long continue even after D to entertain her. She could simply tell you anything to keep this twisted and sick dynamic continued. It's your choice to ignore or to be open to further damage. It must be so hard to make sense of 15 years married to a woman, whom you suddenly realize she wasn't what YOU thought she was (particularly towards the end). Worst of all, she may have turned into a seasoned con artist. 

Hope you feel better soon.


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## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Hi
> 
> It seems to me that perhaps you are still intrigued / or amazed by her past behaviour and are still in shock horror as to how on earth your marriage lasted 15 years when she acted so selfishly and destroyed everything you thought you had built up together.
> 
> If you were manipulated and were always lied to and never got any truths out of her when you were married, she may think this game will long continue even after D to entertain her. She could simply tell you anything to keep this twisted and sick dynamic continued. It's your choice to ignore or to be open to further damage. It must be so hard to make sense of 15 years married to a woman, whom you suddenly realize she wasn't what YOU thought she was (particularly towards the end). Worst of all, she may have turned into a seasoned con artist.
> 
> Hope you feel better soon.


I dont think she turned into a seasoned con-woman. 
I will go on record that she was lying to herself just as much as me during the shutting down process and has even admitted to it.
She waffled for months before she filed for Divorce. Always this dance of hinting that maybe she might reconcile, but then back away because of something she thought/said I did. Her therapist called her "ambivalent".
I wonder sometimes if her post divorce state isnt just as ambivalent as her pre-divorce state?

I have to admit that a lot of the times she started up she had that "wishy washy" feeling which may explain why she experienced my rather firm rebuttals as "attacks".

I sometimes wonder if the conflicts she experiences arent more in her own head than actually between us. I have noted she often takes things I email out of context.

lifeistooshort-
I wouldnt worry too much about it. I appreciate the thought because it brings all possibilities to the table. I am angry at her for doing it the way she did. I just wish she could have been adult enough to at least TRY to fix things together instead of just trashing the whole thing. But then if I look at her past history, whenever something didnt suit her she would just go get a shiny new one. She would buy new cars and kitchens without asking and thought it was "just fine".

My curiosity, which normally is a source of great entertainment, turns out to be my downfall in this situation. :scratchhead:


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## BetrayedDad

SamuraiJack said:


> My curiosity, which normally is a source of great entertainment, turns out to be my downfall in this situation. :scratchhead:


You're trying to apply logic and reason to a sociopath. 

Sometimes.... people are just fvcking crazy. End of story.

You need to accept that and STOP engaging her in any way.


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## tom67

BetrayedDad said:


> You're trying to apply logic and reason to a sociopath.
> 
> Sometimes.... people are just fvcking crazy. End of story.
> 
> You need to accept that and STOP engaging her in any way.


:iagree::iagree:


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## EnjoliWoman

lifeistooshort said:


> Samurijack, let me give this to you in woman speak. What you have here is an extension of the fairy tale syndrome, where a woman doesn't want you but wants to think you're pining away for her. Such an ego boost! I'm soooooo important that the guy I dumped can't move on because he can't get over me. Her referring to your gf as your "current predicament" proves this; in her eyes gf is just a little blip while SHE'S your one true love.
> 
> And your insistence on getting the whole story will be viewed by your gf as either you still being emotionally invested or you have poor boundaries or both. Stop reacting to her emails and rants and ignore them. If I had seen this kind of drama between my hb and his ex I would've dumped him. If you still give a sh!t what she thinks you're still invested. Detach now before you mess up your new relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly - when you want answers, look at it this way: when you have a bad to mediocre meal at a restaurant, do you want to know the ingredients and exactly how it was prepared? No, you just don't want that meal again. Don't' dissect it. The components are irrelevant except where you went wrong. You only need to know how to fix you, not her and not what went wrong.


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## Jellybeans

Exactly.


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## SamuraiJack

Okay...So I set up an email filter with instructions NOT to announce when she sends a message. Now I will check her box on MY terms which will probabaly always be when Im "calm and braced for impact".
I think my problem is that I am just too curiosity driven. 
Luckily for me, Gmail is going to be blocked at work in a day or so!:smthumbup:
That will be one less distraction for me...and one less chance to get slammed when I least expect it.


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## happyman64

While I agree with everyone that "silence" is golden I do believe in setting up firm boundaries between Ex's going forward post divorce.

Have you ever done that SamuraiJack?

The boundaries obviously center around your children, communication and interaction between Ex's.

And since your WAW was cold, callous and absolutely blindsided to you she does not deserve any friendship from you at all.

I totally agree.

But your children deserve a coparent. Not your wife's view of a coparent. 

But yours.

If you have not ever put in writing what your communication with each other will be about or what form it will take place in I urge you to do just that.

I am sure you kept your "Dear John" email. Write your boundaries on that email and send it to her.

I understand not wanting to sit with her. Not wanting to reward her with your presence. To make it look like her decision to divorce you was her best successful plan.

In time you will realize not only did she do you a favor.

But the demise of your marriage and her decision to walk away without any fight for the marriage is totally on her.

Repeat after me.

"There is nothing wrong with me."

HM

PS
I think your GF is a keeper. 

Thanks for the reference to the book. I just downloaded it.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Happy man,
I totally agree and I think my problem was that her ambivalence about repairing anything bled over into my boundaries. 

Totally my fault for buying into mixed messages, as I was so used to her washing in sometimes, then washing out. 
So now I will build a containment wall instead of just patching up the sandbar I had.

The book is excellent and will provide you with easy insight and a way to look at things with a more reasonable mindset. I found that I was particularly guilty of number three. 

I think reading that book probably took away a good 10% of life stress away and still does to this day.


----------



## happyman64

You might have bought into her mixed messages but she was/is sending them.

The reason I told you to send her a boundary/communication email is to not only facilitate a better coparenting situation but to also convey to her that you are no longer her punching bag "buddy" and that you will ignore any other messages not about the kids.

I look forward to reading the book.

Thanks


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Her therapist called her "ambivalent".
> I wonder sometimes if her post divorce state isnt just as ambivalent as her pre-divorce state?
> 
> I have to admit that a lot of the times she started up she had that "wishy washy" feeling which may explain why she experienced my rather firm rebuttals as "attacks".
> 
> I sometimes wonder if the conflicts she experiences arent more in her own head than actually between us. I have noted she often takes things I email out of context.


Hi Sam

Not sure, but perhaps you are still trying to analyse and find "why" and "how" she ended up wanting to have D / decided to move on with Om etc. You do sound like a caring person and I'm sure you tried hard to stay together as best as you could. 

There's nothing wrong with wondering and trying to analyse because I'm sure that you wish your marriage worked out and you didn't have to have D etc. I'm sure it's part of the recovery process. Take care xx


----------



## SamuraiJack

Thank you poppyseed,

When I was young and my parents were going through a divorce I most likely made a promise to myself that I would never have a marriage that was like that. I believe that it may have been this agreement with myself that kept me in the relationship longer than was good for me. 
Its amazing to me what I put up with just to have a "solid marriage". 

I have an inclination to try marriage again. I just really want to be sure I understand what happened...but I think Im going to have to just let the full answer slide.
I think it might be better for me to put energy into moving forward than to continue my forensic ruminations...

Another thing that bothers me is that I am/was a psychologist and a pretty good judge of character on top of that. I wonder about every week or so "how I did not see this coming?"

Lucky for me the wondering is few and far between and keeps getting longer in between thoughts. Interactions with her bring them back up so...Im minimizing the interactions. 

I think you are right that I want to know why it happened, but I dont think I will ever get a straight answer since she has rewritten the history of the marriage.

But then again...nobody is forcing me to read her book.


----------



## Jellybeans

SamuraiJack said:


> Another thing that bothers me is that I am/was a psychologist and a pretty good judge of character on top of that. I wonder about every week or so "how I did not see this coming?"


I think a lot of us who divorce feel like this. It truly is a WTF moment! 

You will be all right though. You don't have to be buddies with her. It's ok.


----------



## OpenEnded

I wonder about every week or so "how I did not see this coming?" * 

I think you did. But you were /and still are to some degree/ emotionally attached to her. My experience is that detachment is like waves going away and becoming smaller with time. 

After similar events in my life I started looking at this as a game. I would not get angry if I try and don't get the expected result. 

e.g. One day I could not ignore her nasty voice mail and called back immediately even though there was no apparent need to. Next time I'd try again and give myself credit for it. Last year I bought a smart phone and keep it on 'silent'. I respond only on my terms. It might look passive aggressive but my life now is a lot calmer and easier and I accomplish more with less effort.


*PS. I have to learn to quote other posts.


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> I have an inclination to try marriage again. I just really want to be sure I understand what happened...but I think Im going to have to just let the full answer slide.
> I think it might be better for me to put energy into moving forward than to continue my forensic ruminations...
> 
> Lucky for me the wondering is few and far between and keeps getting longer in between thoughts. Interactions with her bring them back up so...Im minimizing the interactions.
> 
> I think you are right that I want to know why it happened, but I dont think I will ever get a straight answer since she has rewritten the history of the marriage.


Hi Sam

You sound very well balanced. 

I think everyone has his or her version of "what happened" and "what went wrong" etc. No, you don't need to buy her version. It's a shame your ex doesn't seem to share much deeper sentiment like you have. 

Certainly, it sounds like your recovery is going well and to be quite frank, take as much time as you need. After all, you had a very long marriage and you still had happy and previous memories when things were going well between you and her. I always remember mine and those are so precious - nothing can change that. 

Have an excellent weekend and take care xx


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> You sound very well balanced.
> 
> I think everyone has his or her version of "what happened" and "what went wrong" etc. No, you don't need to buy her version. It's a shame your ex doesn't seem to share much deeper sentiment like you have.
> 
> Certainly, it sounds like your recovery is going well and to be quite frank, take as much time as you need. After all, you had a very long marriage and you still had happy and previous memories when things were going well between you and her. I always remember mine and those are so precious - nothing can change that.
> Have an excellent weekend and take care xx



Thanks for the compliment. When I made my commitment, I didnt put any type of thought into it possibly ending. I have a very difficult time recalling good memories because of the awful way she left and the horrible things she said and did as part of her leaving. When I try to think of anything good, it is immediatley replaced with visions of her yelling at me. It's sadly funny because she used to lean in and she looked a lot like a rabid dog..

Still got a ways to go. My GF says it's natural ( she has been divorced twice) and time will heal.

On the plus side, my new mail settings are great and this was a very quiet weekend because I chose not to check her folder. 
Ah Bliss. 
I will probably check it tonight after 15 seconds of mental prep...and reply in a clam and nuetral fashion.
I should have done this three years ago.
:smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

How much does she weigh today?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## SamuraiJack

LongWalk said:


> How much does she weigh today?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


She is back to her normal weight when I met her. Her boobs vanished and she has a flat ass...

She looks incredibly like my mother....right down to the bad dye job on her hair...just waiting for her to go platinum...
:rofl:


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Still got a ways to go. My GF says it's natural ( she has been divorced twice) and time will heal.
> 
> On the plus side, my new mail settings are great and this was a very quiet weekend because I chose not to check her folder.
> Ah Bliss.
> I will probably check it tonight after 15 seconds of mental prep...and reply in a clam and nuetral fashion.
> I should have done this three years ago.
> :smthumbup:


Hi Sam

It is quite incredible to learn that many men do suffer tremendously from their relationship breakup as many of us women do! 

Of course, it takes time. Your GF is right. 

Take care and wishing you a great week!


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> It is quite incredible to learn that many men do suffer tremendously from their relationship breakup as many of us women do!
> 
> Of course, it takes time. Your GF is right.
> 
> Take care and wishing you a great week!


Yes, Men DO suffer just as much. It's just that our society trains us from day one to push our feelings down and not show them. If you do show them, you are weak or clingy.

I think in certain ways men may suffer more in certain circumstances. We are usually taught to 'fix' things when they go wrong. I see many instances, including my own, where that instinct was denied to the point of it seeming like punishment.

But I think in the end nobody ever 'wins'.
I would have been much happier if I was given a chance to make things right. Then at least I could say I gave it everything I possibly had..


----------



## movealong

Well put.



SamuraiJack said:


> Yes, Men DO suffer just as much. It's just that our society trains us from day one to push our feelings down and not show them. If you do show them, you are weak or clingy.
> 
> I think in certain ways men may suffer more in certain circumstances. We are usually taught to 'fix' things when they go wrong. I see many instances, including my own, where that instinct was denied to the point of it seeming like punishment.
> 
> But I think in the end nobody ever 'wins'.
> I would have been much happier if I was given a chance to make things right. Then at least I could say I gave it everything I possibly had..


:iagree:


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> But I think in the end nobody ever 'wins'.
> I would have been much happier if I was given a chance to make things right. Then at least I could say I gave it everything I possibly had..


Hi I agree as well.

Devastation of D is astronomical in so many levels. I'm sure many of us (who visit a site such as this) DO have the similar sentiment whether you are a man or a woman. Take care and thank you for sharing.


----------



## Thundarr

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes, Men DO suffer just as much. It's just that our society trains us from day one to push our feelings down and not show them. If you do show them, you are weak or clingy.
> 
> I think in certain ways men may suffer more in certain circumstances. We are usually taught to 'fix' things when they go wrong. I see many instances, including my own, where that instinct was denied to the point of it seeming like punishment.
> 
> But I think in the end nobody ever 'wins'.
> I would have been much happier if I was given a chance to make things right. Then at least I could say I gave it everything I possibly had..


The "fixer" mindset is a trap sometimes. We go into relationships thinking that we can fix everything. It's not until we learn that we can only fix ourselves that it becomes a good thing. Someone who can fix everything is so busy fixing the other person that they're not holding them personally accountable. That's a fast track to failure. It contributed to failure when I was younger anyway.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Thundarr said:


> The "fixer" mindset is a trap sometimes. We go into relationships thinking that we can fix everything. It's not until we learn that we can only fix ourselves that it becomes a good thing. Someone who can fix everything is so busy fixing the other person that they're not holding them personally accountable. That's a fast track to failure. It contributed to failure when I was younger anyway.


I agree that fixer can be a sure way to destruction. Sometimes you really need to just listen.

On a good point the ex emailed me today lambasting me for supposedly not answering an email she sent. It was filled with projection, accusation and a clear understanding that she has no clue who I am anymore.

So I tried a different tact and told her that the way she was addressing me didnt work for me and would she please *re-write *it.
The reply was just more of the same so I wrote back and told her that no further progress will be made on changing insurance until she addressed me the way I specified ( respectfully and calmly)....not whichever way she wants to.

The next email was pretty tame and reasonable.:smthumbup:

Feelin good about this...


----------



## Jellybeans

Next time, don't even respond. (Or only respond to things she says about co-parenting).

You have to learn that any spew she gives you--you don't have to respond to at all.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> Next time, don't even respond. (Or only respond to things she says about co-parenting).
> 
> You have to learn that any spew she gives you--you don't have to respond to at all.


This WAS related to the co-parenting. She is changing companies and the kids need to go on my insurance.
IT will save us a bout 300 a month in expenses....and I am TOTALLY fine with this. I just hadnt checked my gmail in an age.

But she manges to lace little gems like this into her email...and this was from the tame one:



> "I'm going to not presume its because you are punishing me with silence. But the wine does leave a little doubt." ~Ex


I got her "nice note" and decided to just let it go. 
I hear crazy can rub off on you...


----------



## Jellybeans

Ah, I see.

She is still bitter.

I find that the less you engage the bitterness, the nuttier it will make her and soon she'll realize she can't get to you.

Winning!


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> She is still bitter.
> 
> I find that the less you engage the bitterness, the nuttier it will make her and soon she'll realize she can't get to you.
> 
> Winning!


I know, right? 
The thing I fail to understand is WHY she is bitter.
She lied to me for almost a year.
She initiated the seperation.
She filed.
She forced me to buy our old house.

I mean this classic WAW stuff, yet she is still trying to engage me.

She just cant seem to get it through her head that the damage she did was permanent.:scratchhead:


----------



## Jellybeans

SamuraiJack said:


> The thing I fail to understand is WHY she is bitter.


It's actually moe common than you think, her bitterness.

Some it is probably related to the fact that she realizes she has no voice anymore in the things you do or choose to do. She could be miffed that while she was the one who left, now you are the on in a relationship. And if she sees you acting all calm when she goes off on you, that is sure to be part of her bitterness. I find that when you react to people calmly (who are upset), sometimes they become even angrier. It just makes them look like a nut (and you look like Yoda). "Choice excellent, my friend."


----------



## zillard

Being bitter is much easier than accepting your own pos tendencies and holding yourself accountable.

Simple as that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

To the contrary, I think accepting your flaws and being accountable are way easier than being bitter/angry. The latter takes up too much energy.


----------



## Rowan

zillard said:


> Being bitter is much easier than accepting your own pos tendencies and holding yourself accountable.
> 
> Simple as that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Jellybeans said:


> To the contrary, I think accepting your flaws and being accountable are way easier than being bitter/angry. The latter takes up too much energy.


I think you're both right. For some people, it's just easier and more healthy to be honest and face your own mistakes and issues, so you can figure out how to fix the problem and not repeat the mistake. But for others, that's just not happening.

In my experience, the people who gravitate to bitter in situations like this do it because being self-aware and personally accountable are not even really on the table. There are plenty of people for whom protecting the self, their image of who they are, is so vitally important that anything that might potentially mar that pristine self-image is automatically out of the question.

My ex-husband the serial cheater is bitter about me divorcing him. Because if he were ever to admit that I might have had a valid reason to not want to be married to him, then he might have to also admit that he's not actually this great guy. He can't handle that, so it simply doesn't happen. Thus, I get to remain the heartless b!tch that he's bitter about. For him, the emotional energy it takes to keep up that level of bitterness - and the self-delusion it requires - is not just totally worth it, but vitally necessary.


----------



## SamuraiJack

MY ex refuses to see how much damage she did when she left and keeps telling me "it's in the past". The classic mantra for people avoiding responsibility along with "it is, what it is."

She also has herself in a bind. If she takes responsibility for hurting me as badly as she did, then she has to admit that she is just as human as everyone else. 

Needless to say...she hates it when I show her the mirror. 

and so I get to be re-written as the bad guy who was apparently too terrible to be with...Nice.


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> MY ex refuses to see how much damage she did when she left and keeps telling me "it's in the past". The classic mantra for people avoiding responsibility along with "it is, what it is."
> 
> She also has herself in a bind. If she takes responsibility for hurting me as badly as she did, then she has to admit that she is just as human as everyone else.
> 
> Needless to say...she hates it when I show her the mirror.
> 
> and so I get to be re-written as the bad guy who was apparently too terrible to be with...Nice.


Hi Sam

I'm sure your ex W knows what she had done but she does not want to be a martyr by the sound of it. Some people would never admit openly how badly they let you/others down but they will probably always remember what they did underneath. 

What she's saying / implying is "can we move on from the past and at least, be amicable"? Or do you think she has other agenda? 

Am I right to think that it's been two years (or longer?) since you had D? Personally, after two whole years, you would have reached a point of "complete indifference" to your X and mentally, physically, spiritually and emotionally, you are new "You" who's totally detached from your X and re-established a balanced and content life with a new lover / partner / GF? Or do you think you are still struggling with the loss of your previous life? As for the way she left you, sadly, it's fairly common. Many of us have been cheated on and marriage had been thrown out into a bin overnight for something more "exciting" / someone else. 

At some point, it may be easier (it was for me) to accept how our X was and what he / or she had done and consciously remove ourself from dwelling on the past by focusing on NOW and our future. x


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> I'm sure your ex W knows what she had done but she does not want to be a martyr by the sound of it. Some people would never admit openly how badly they let you/others down but they will probably always remember what they did underneath.
> 
> What she's saying / implying is "can we move on from the past and at least, be amicable"? Or do you think she has other agenda?
> 
> Am I right to think that it's been two years (or longer?) since you had D? Personally, after two whole years, you would have reached a point of "complete indifference" to your X and mentally, physically, spiritually and emotionally, you are new "You" who's totally detached from your X and re-established a balanced and content life with a new lover / partner / GF? Or do you think you are still struggling with the loss of your previous life? As for the way she left you, sadly, it's fairly common. Many of us have been cheated on and marriage had been thrown out into a bin overnight for something more "exciting" / someone else.
> 
> At some point, it may be easier (it was for me) to accept how our X was and what he / or she had done and consciously remove ourself from dwelling on the past by focusing on NOW and our future. x


I think I am struggling with the loss of my previous life. When I married her I had a plan to weld together a family and build a new generation that was unlike the one I grew up in.
I think the way she did it was what hurt the most. 

A friend of mine summed it up the other day. He said "She just wants to skip 5-10 years and go right to the good part so she doesnt have to feel guilty anymore or do any work."

I think Ray hit it on the head.


----------



## Stretch

Jack,

Because it is "unknown", we tend to way undervalue the potential of our futures simultaneously overvaluing the past because it's already happened.

The future is only guaranteed to be diferent than the past not better or worse. We decide if we are going to look at it with optimism or dread.

I CHOOSE DROOLING EXCITEMENT FOR A FANTASTIC FUTURE!

Be strong brother, you are gonna thrive,
Stretch


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> I have abandonment issues from way back (lost nearly all relatives and my mom at 10-12 years old) and I did what I thought I needed to do and fought for my marriage as hard as I could. I didn’t want my kids coming from a broken home.
> 
> Then I met my current GF. What a breath of fresh air! She recognized I was wounded but a good man and stood by patiently while I realized how battered I actually was. She introduced me to the Four Agreements and let me do my thing. She did just what I wanted which was to just let me be “me”.
> I will have been with her almost 2 ½ years in a month or two. *No big fights or drama.*
> 
> She still doesn’t understand that having her lie to me for upwards of eight months (“No, nothing’s wrong.”) and plotting her abrupt exit was the worst type of betrayal I have ever experienced.
> 
> What I can’t forgive is the absolute lack of input I had in any of it. She broke up with me (15 years of marriage) by email. Things just went downhill from there. I honestly don’t think I can ever trust her again and I’m not even certain what I would do given a chance to.
> 
> I could write a book on this …friends have said I should. 
> 
> So my question is…Has anyone ever had an ex like this? If so, how did you let it go or at least get them to understand that you don’t want to be friends with anyone who would hurt them so badly?


Hi 

I agree with stretch. Wise words.

I also feel that you are totally entitled to how you are feeling. After all, we are all different and we all heal at a different speed and in different manners. 

You give excellent advice and suggestions over a number of threads..you are excellent in connecting with others who are equally hurting from the effects of D. However, I wouldn't go as far as "my kids are coming from a broken home". They are not. They have decent parents and sometimes, marriage does not work out, unfortunately. 

I'm not sure but wondered if you feel that your GF would never replace your ex W? Lack of drama is great but at the same time, you aren't much into her either? Have you thought about moving from an ex "marital home" to a new house? Do you think living in an old house where your ex and you used to share has too much history and memories attached to it no matter how much you have done rearranging / replacing its contents? 

Wishing you well and take care.


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Hi
> 
> I agree with stretch. Wise words.
> 
> I also feel that you are totally entitled to how you are feeling. After all, we are all different and we all heal at a different speed and in different manners.
> 
> You give excellent advice and suggestions over a number of threads..you are excellent in connecting with others who are equally hurting from the effects of D. However, I wouldn't go as far as "my kids are coming from a broken home". They are not. They have decent parents and sometimes, marriage does not work out, unfortunately.
> 
> I'm not sure but wondered if you feel that your GF would never replace your ex W? Lack of drama is great but at the same time, you aren't much into her either? Have you thought about moving from an ex "marital home" to a new house? Do you think living in an old house where your ex and you used to share has too much history and memories attached to it no matter how much you have done rearranging / replacing its contents?
> 
> Wishing you well and take care.


Thank you for the kind words. 
Not exactly broken , but my kids live out of bags, something that bothers me a whole lot. I let them because it's convenient for them. They used to come home and unpack. Nowdays...not so much.

My GF I trust and connect with a LOT more than my ex. This is why I posted. I want to move forward with her, but the ex will occasionally press her nose into things. Its annoying to me.

The house is a good question. I have noticed that I have avoided three areas in my house which really should be clean swept. Problem is, Im a procrastinator from since time began...
But I am willing to admit it could be emotional avoidance.
You have to keep yourself open to all kinds of stuff.
I really like this house. Its been my fav ever since I saw it. Its impractical and sorta odd and has a rustic exterior. I just love it. 
The very first time I drove by it, I wondered what it would be like to live in it. Turns out my future ex-wife was living in the basement apartment at the time. ( Seriously...you cant make this stuff up!)
As strange as it may seem, I was happy to keep the hosue even if it had some memories kicking around. Mostly I keep it because it is the house my kids knew for the first part of their lives. I keep it to give them some sense of always having a place to come home to...a familiar place to land.

Things are moving along and the house is mine now.
She mentioned moving once, but she also understands that I really like this house.

Clear as mud?


----------



## bandit.45

I do not see where the ex wants to be your buddy. Your title is misleading. In every paragraph you have told how she essentially despises and blames you for all her life's ills. 

Where does the buddy aspect fit in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SamuraiJack

bandit.45 said:


> I do not see where the ex wants to be your buddy. Your title is misleading. In every paragraph you have told how she essentially despises and blames you for all her life's ills.
> 
> Where does the buddy aspect fit in?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah yes.
Basically what she does is try to pressure me into being her "buddy". She wants to be able to have me at get togethers and wants us to be onbe of those couples that are "still friends".

I have no desire to do this, but she still expects it and gets mad when I tell her I am not interested.
This interferes with my GF time occasionally. Thank goodness she is the understanding type.


----------



## SunnyT

On the plus side said:


> One idea: After reading her email, train yourself not to reply until the next day....if at all. Not every email requires an answer.
> 
> You could also do a google doc sharing thing.... putting kid events on it. Lessens the need for any interaction.


----------



## bandit.45

SamuraiJack said:


> Ah yes.
> Basically what she does is try to pressure me into being her "buddy". She wants to be able to have me at get togethers and wants us to be onbe of those couples that are "still friends".
> 
> I have no desire to do this, but she still expects it and gets mad when I tell her I am not interested.
> This interferes with my GF time occasionally. Thank goodness she is the understanding type.


Ah. Fake friends. It's all about appearances with her. She's sweet to you in public but feels justified in eviscerating you privately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

SamuraiJack said:


> Ah yes.
> Basically what she does is try to pressure me into being her "buddy". She wants to be able to have me at get togethers and wants us to be onbe of those couples that are "still friends".
> 
> I have no desire to do this, but she still expects it and gets mad when I tell her I am not interested.
> This interferes with my GF time occasionally. Thank goodness she is the understanding type.


To her, you're like her starter home that she's renting out now that she's moved into another one. She still owns you after all. And she doesn't have to rent to any tenant she doesn't like (your gf).

Explain to her that the first home burned down and is no longer there. BAM.... problem solved.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Thundarr said:


> To her, you're like her starter home that she's renting out now that she's moved into another one. She still owns you after all. And she doesn't have to rent to any tenant she doesn't like (your gf).
> 
> Explain to her that the first home burned down and is no longer there. BAM.... problem solved.


Thats Hilarious!
I used nearly the same metaphor to her when she left!

I told her that her being mad at me was like setting fire to my house and then blaming me for being angry when I try to put it out.
Her reply was to tell me "it's your house , therefore your reactions are your fault."

So I asked her who set it on fire in the first place.
I enjoyed email silence for well over three weeks that time.
:scratchhead:


So an update. 
The new mail settings are going well.
I am practicing indifference and making her rewrite the email has worked wonders in terms of how nice she is in emails now.
Once we get the insurance out of the way, she will have no reason to contact me unless its about the kids

I think I MAY have found the circumstances that work for me. :smthumbup:


----------



## zillard

SamuraiJack said:


> Once we get the insurance out of the way, she will have no reason to contact me unless its about the kids


You see that, logically. 

Doesn't mean she will. Expect more of the same and act accordingly. If you respond when it continues, you'll send the message that you are ok with it.


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Thank you for the kind words.
> Not exactly broken , but my kids live out of bags, something that bothers me a whole lot. I let them because it's convenient for them. They used to come home and unpack. Nowdays...not so much.
> 
> The house is a good question. I have noticed that I have avoided three areas in my house which really should be clean swept. Problem is, Im a procrastinator from since time began...
> But I am willing to admit it could be emotional avoidance.
> You have to keep yourself open to all kinds of stuff.
> I really like this house. Its been my fav ever since I saw it. Its impractical and sorta odd and has a rustic exterior. I just love it.


Hi Sam

It's good that you are settled well in your current house. You explained it so well that you are very happy - yes, it's understandable how you feel about your children.

Wishing you all the best - you are doing incredibly well.


----------



## EasyPartner

SamuraiJack said:


> Ah yes.
> Basically what she does is try to pressure me into being her "buddy". She wants to be able to have me at get togethers and wants us to be onbe of those couples that are "still friends".
> 
> I have no desire to do this, but she still expects it and gets mad when I tell her I am not interested.
> This interferes with my GF time occasionally. Thank goodness she is the understanding type.


Hey Jack,

Your situation has some similarities with my own... and a few differences.

Ex and I are on OK terms, convo's are civil, even cordial, and we don't avoid each other at, e.g., kid's school festivities. 

Being 50/50 custodial parents we also have to compromise about the kids and their activities, theirs and our own vacations etc. I have to confess, the first few months after the separation this demanded almost superhuman efforts from my part. It got way better with time.

In my case also, this has interfered with my GF -I even started a thread about that a while ago (only my GF seems a bit more dramatic at times than yours ). Could you elaborate a little what the interference is about in your case and how you deal(t) with it?

What I don't understand completely... you've been with your current GF for over 2 years so I suspect you've been separated for even longer... and you sound still very bitter at times... anyway, Poppyseed already asked pertinent questions about this so I'm not gonna repeat them.

One thing though. Certain (real) WAW's have this amazing ability to rewrite marital history in order to justify them leaving, including character assassination of the LBS (you were the bad guy too terrible to be with, remember).

This clashes with our memories of things. Do we have our part in the demise of the marriage? Sure (and now, let's work on those points). But was it all bad? Certainly not.

I, for one, seemed to be unable to rewrite that history like a WAW would do, although that would have helped my recovery greatly (speed-wise, anyway).

Instead, we have (over?)analyzed our own shortcomings and try to do better now, and have come to TAM even... Sometimes we wonder if that new awareness would have made a difference in our old marriage.

Does any of this ring any bells with you?


----------



## SamuraiJack

EasyPartner said:


> Hey Jack,
> 
> Your situation has some similarities with my own... and a few differences.
> 
> Ex and I are on OK terms, convo's are civil, even cordial, and we don't avoid each other at, e.g., kid's school festivities.
> 
> Being 50/50 custodial parents we also have to compromise about the kids and their activities, theirs and our own vacations etc. I have to confess, the first few months after the separation this demanded almost superhuman efforts from my part. It got way better with time.
> 
> In my case also, this has interfered with my GF -I even started a thread about that a while ago (only my GF seems a bit more dramatic at times than yours ). Could you elaborate a little what the interference is about in your case and how you deal(t) with it?
> 
> What I don't understand completely... you've been with your current GF for over 2 years so I suspect you've been separated for even longer... and you sound still very bitter at times... anyway, Poppyseed already asked pertinent questions about this so I'm not gonna repeat them.
> 
> One thing though. Certain (real) WAW's have this amazing ability to rewrite marital history in order to justify them leaving, including character assassination of the LBS (you were the bad guy too terrible to be with, remember).
> 
> This clashes with our memories of things. Do we have our part in the demise of the marriage? Sure (and now, let's work on those points). But was it all bad? Certainly not.
> 
> I, for one, seemed to be unable to rewrite that history like a WAW would do, although that would have helped my recovery greatly (speed-wise, anyway).
> 
> Instead, we have (over?)analyzed our own shortcomings and try to do better now, and have come to TAM even... Sometimes we wonder if that new awareness would have made a difference in our old marriage.
> 
> Does any of this ring any bells with you?


Yep! This rings like Churchbells to me. I often over analyze and rethink in order to find the truth. She, on the other hand, can write pretty much whatever she wants. 

Classic example of how she weedles her way into things...
She wrote me a few days ago and asked me about a Meyers-Briggs test she had to take for work and asked me my opinion on it. This is the way she does it. She will start with a seemingly innocent topic and then slowly work her way into some issue with our marriage.
Normally I would have given my opinion and she would have then asked if I had ever taken it and I would respond that I had...blah blah. Then she would ask me what I scored and then she would start making comparisons. Then she would re-work it to her benefit and end it with some statement like "If only we had known this before, we could have worked on it." (This is always a trigger for me)
Because I am a great believer in truth I would respond that we didnt need this to work on the marriage and that it was her abandonment of the marriage that brought it to a halt.

...and then the fighting starts.

So this time I just ignored it.


----------



## Jellybeans

Good. Keep doing that.


----------



## EasyPartner

SamuraiJack said:


> Yep! This rings like Churchbells to me. I often over analyze and rethink in order to find the truth. She, on the other hand, can write pretty much whatever she wants.
> 
> Classic example of how she weedles her way into things...
> She wrote me a few days ago and asked me about a Meyers-Briggs test she had to take for work and asked me my opinion on it. This is the way she does it. She will start with a seemingly innocent topic and then slowly work her way into some issue with our marriage.
> Normally I would have given my opinion and she would have then asked if I had ever taken it and I would respond that I had...blah blah. Then she would ask me what I scored and then she would start making comparisons. Then she would re-work it to her benefit and end it with some statement like "If only we had known this before, we could have worked on it." (This is always a trigger for me)
> Because I am a great believer in truth I would respond that we didnt need this to work on the marriage and that it was her abandonment of the marriage that brought it to a halt.
> 
> ...and then the fighting starts.
> 
> So this time I just ignored it.


Dang!

That sure would have triggered me. 12 Points from the Belgian jury to you for the ignoring :smthumbup:

Was she like this from the beginning or is it a recent phenomenon?


----------



## SamuraiJack

EasyPartner said:


> Dang!
> 
> That sure would have triggered me. 12 Points from the Belgian jury to you for the ignoring :smthumbup:
> 
> Was she like this from the beginning or is it a recent phenomenon?


Yay!....Winning! 

She wasnt always like this. 
In the same way that she was wishy washy about rebuilding or reconciling...she became like this in her emails.

Drives me batty because she tells me one day "Its been three years. Get over it." but then she keeps doing this.
Can you say 'Mixed Messages?'
:scratchhead:


----------



## Jellybeans

Get over what? Aren't you ignoring her? Methinks you are expending too much energy on her.


----------



## poppyseed

EasyPartner said:


> .
> 
> One thing though. Certain (real) WAW's have this amazing ability to rewrite marital history in order to justify them leaving, including character assassination of the LBS (you were the bad guy too terrible to be with, remember).
> 
> This clashes with our memories of things. Do we have our part in the demise of the marriage? Sure (and now, let's work on those points). But was it all bad? Certainly not.
> 
> I, for one, seemed to be unable to rewrite that history like a WAW would do, although that would have helped my recovery greatly (speed-wise, anyway).
> 
> Instead, we have (over?)analyzed our own shortcomings and try to do better now, and have come to TAM even... Sometimes we wonder if that new awareness would have made a difference in our old marriage.
> 
> Does any of this ring any bells with you?


Hi EP

Great insight! (Sorry for "!" bit..) It does. It really does.

There is a huge parallel world going on between one lived by WAW & another lived by LBS. In my feeling, it's much easier if you were a WAW who emotionally moved on whilst she/he was still married whatever reasons they had. LBSs tend to go through the agonising and oft futile process of hoping for R when R wasn't even a consideration for WAWs AT ALL. In their eyes (WAWs), marriage was already a done deal and they wanted out for some time - it was essentially a matter of when and how to exit. 

There is a huge lingering trauma / psychological scars experienced by LBSs if you like. It's almost as if you were hit by a car or a huge truck you didn't see coming. You wake up in hospital and wondering what happened. I know it's not a great analogy but you roughly know how it is felt. One of the other thought his/her marriage was going ok (LBSs) if not perfect whilst the other (WAW) was completely disillusioned and unhappy (but never voiced their negative feelings). 

I think it's NOT unusual to "dislike" one's ex and even have some hostility for their past behaviour - suddenly, one realises how delusional one has been to have had any sort of positive feelings for the WAW. One needs to remember..based on the recent history, it's only wise if you wouldn't have much "trust" on our ex, who was after all capable of doing what they did. 

Thank you for sharing your excellent observations. Hope life is treating you well.


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Yay!....Winning!
> In the same way that she was wishy washy about rebuilding or reconciling...she became like this in her emails.
> 
> Drives me batty because she tells me one day "Its been three years. Get over it." but then she keeps doing this.
> Can you say 'Mixed Messages?'
> :scratchhead:


Soooo..Sam..Can I ask if your ex is living with OM since three years ago, please, presumably? Hope you don't mind me asking this? 3 years post-D, are you still having this type of conversation? (sorry hope this does not come across as a form of criticism x)


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> Because I am a great believer in truth I would respond that we didnt need this to work on the marriage and that it was her abandonment of the marriage that brought it to a halt.
> 
> ...and then the fighting starts.
> 
> So this time I just ignored it.


Have you thought about telling her that the bridge had fallen into the deepest water never to be built again? And, poss tell her that No more unnecessary "social" dialogue over "our marriage" would be welcome as "our marriage" no longer exists nowhere to be seen? Having that sort of "dialogue" with WAW is so so so futile as it brings you back to the same trauma / anger / upset etc you went through time and time again.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> Get over what? Aren't you ignoring her? Methinks you are expending too much energy on her.


That was her reply after she pulled me in with another of her classic ploys and I was triggered. Another "Dont be upset because I set your house on fire" moves.

She says she has moved on, but she seems to run this little subroutine that comes back to bother me about every two months or so.

The too much energy part is why I posted this here. 
I figured this would level out after a while and disappear...but she is holding steady for the past year and a half (?) I would say.
I have tried the civil approach, the GTF out of my face approach and the cold shoulder. 
None of them worked for long.

She has this odd sense when it's been long enough that I drop my gaurd. Then she will hit me with something seemingly innocent ( she once managed to turn my daughters concert into a full blown hissy fit) and I will reply.
The next thing I know, Im chewing off my foot to get out of the bear trap.:rofl:

The lesson has simply come down to one thing.
Dont reply.
About anything.
Ever....except the kids.


----------



## EasyPartner

poppyseed said:


> Have you thought about telling her that the bridge had fallen into the deepest water never to be built again? And, poss tell her that No more unnecessary "social" dialogue over "our marriage" would be welcome as "our marriage" no longer exists nowhere to be seen? Having that sort of "dialogue" with WAW is so so so futile as it brings you back to the same trauma / anger / upset etc you went through time and time again.


:iagree: of course. So why would she do it?

Several theories already have been posted earlier on this thread.

Another one (and I may be way off here, but anyway).

Jack says his ex is giving mixed messages by talking of their former marriage, saying "to get over it" and to be "buddies" (whatever that means).

Maybe these messages aren't mixed at all.

She was said to be wishy washy/ambivalent earlier. Was she really? Did she love him anymore? No. Did she want to leave him? Yes. No ambivalence there.

But that didn't stop her from feeling guilty and/or ashamed for what she was going to do, or even still caring for him in some way; they were together for 15 years and he is the father of her children.

She may STILL feel this way.

So she knows he's still angry at her for what she has done... and she wants to get on friendlier terms (the "buddy request"), because when that happens he may (have) forgive her so she doesn't have to feel guilty anymore...

To speed up the process she wants to talk about the downfall of the marriage and his part in it (to get him to reckon it was not her fault).

No mixed messages.

Just a theory.


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> Soooo..Sam..Can I ask if your ex is living with OM since three years ago, please, presumably? Hope you don't mind me asking this? 3 years post-D, are you still having this type of conversation? (sorry hope this does not come across as a form of criticism x)


She was with another guy for about a year after she divorced me. Then he rabbited and moved to TX. I havent heard of anyone since. But then again , its not like I listen for it. I try to steer away from any conversation about her.

The "get over it" was a reply to when I told her that I didnt trust her after the way she handled the exit from the marriage and I wasnt interested in being friendly with her. 

I dont mind criticism. I know that there will be varying opinions from different people and some may be "more direct" than others.


----------



## bandit.45

Stop talking to her about extraneous things. Just talk about the kids and schedules. That's it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

SamuraiJack said:


> She was with another guy for about a year after she divorced me. Then he rabbited and moved to TX.


Rabbited? Does that mean he took of?

I've never heard that expression before.



SamuraiJack said:


> The "get over it" was a reply to when I told her that I didnt trust her after the way she handled the exit from the marriage and I wasnt interested in being friendly with her.


Which means you are still engaging her and bringing it into the conversation.

This will continue as long as you keep doing this.


----------



## SamuraiJack

EasyPartner said:


> :iagree: of course. So why would she do it?
> 
> Several theories already have been posted earlier on this thread.
> 
> Another one (and I may be way off here, but anyway).
> 
> Jack says his ex is giving mixed messages by talking of their former marriage, saying "to get over it" and to be "buddies" (whatever that means).
> 
> Maybe these messages aren't mixed at all.
> 
> She was said to be wishy washy/ambivalent earlier. Was she really? Did she love him anymore? No. Did she want to leave him? Yes. No ambivalence there.
> 
> But that didn't stop her from feeling guilty and/or ashamed for what she was going to do, or even still caring for him in some way; they were together for 15 years and he is the father of her children.
> 
> She may STILL feel this way.
> 
> So she knows he's still angry at her for what she has done... and she wants to get on friendlier terms (the "buddy request"), because when that happens he may (have) forgive her so she doesn't have to feel guilty anymore...
> 
> To speed up the process she wants to talk about the downfall of the marriage and his part in it (to get him to reckon it was not her fault).
> 
> No mixed messages.
> 
> Just a theory.


:iagree:
I like it. You, me, and my friend Ray both see the same thing. I like how you and poppyseed put it though. It was much more concise than I could put together because of my proximity to the problem. Nice! 

The wishy washy part was during the separation and about three months after the divorce. She would makenoise about reconciliation, edge closer and then find some fault in something I did and use it against me. 
It was almost like she looked for things after she hinted at R.
So it was back and forth, back and forth...

She was even writing me when she was with the OM.
I finally had to threaten to forward all of her emails to him so HE could sort out the problem. :smthumbup:
The period following that one was three months of pure bliss.:rofl:


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> Rabbited? Does that mean he took of?
> 
> I've never heard that expression before.
> 
> 
> 
> Which means you are still engaging her and bringing it into the conversation.
> 
> This will continue as long as you keep doing this.


Yes. Its an expression used when someone takes off like a shot and dissapears down a hole.

I know you are right Jellybeans. 
I really do.

Its just frustrating to me that I get myself into a spot where I allow myself to think _"Hey! She hasnt tried to engage in two months. She must have gotten the hint."_
So I let my gaurd down and ...SURPRISE!!!
It's like one of those cartoons where someone is trying to go to sleep and that one fly keeps coming around after they turn the lights out. After they have done everything from get a newspaper to blowing up their entire house...the fly is STILL there!

I think Im doing it right...now.
I am practicing aloofness and treat her like a stranger.
I have only talked to her about the kids and ignored everything else...and Im getting a little encouragement and support here.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Two days ago she sent me a link to an online Meyers Briggs personality test...wanted me to take it so I could report my results to her because "she wanted to understand why we keep miscommunicating."

I already know Im an INFP...but Its a little late for that.

Gotta wonder what she will come up with next.
I also gotta hand it to her since it pushes a lot of seemingly innocent buttons; psychology, curiosity, and my love of tests in general.
But! I know the ensuing need for her to discuss the results will lead to another triggering.

Dont need that.


----------



## Jellybeans

WHO CARES? Seriously, you are still stuck on her, it seems! 

So she sent you a Meyer's test? Just hit "delete."

Stop wondering about her and what she will "come up with next." It seems, honestly, as if you are not over her.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> WHO CARES? Seriously, you are still stuck on her, it seems!
> 
> So she sent you a Meyer's test? Just hit "delete."
> 
> Stop wondering about her and what she will "come up with next." It seems, honestly, as if you are not over her.


Hey, Hey Gimme a break here. Im in training !!!


----------



## poppyseed

Jellybeans said:


> WHO CARES? Seriously, you are still stuck on her, it seems!
> 
> So she sent you a Meyer's test? Just hit "delete."
> 
> Stop wondering about her and what she will "come up with next." It seems, honestly, as if you are not over her.


I think this is only slightly more of an emotional affair. Apron string needs to be cut because it's not fair (for his current GF) for her BF to keep bonding with his ex no matter how understanding she would be? :scratchhead:


----------



## SamuraiJack

poppyseed said:


> I think this is only slightly more of an emotional affair. Apron string needs to be cut because it's not fair (for his current GF) for her BF to keep bonding with his ex no matter how understanding she would be? :scratchhead:


You are, of course, correct.
Its become very obvious to me that I have two options:
1. To let things go and hope she finally just gets a BF or something to distract her.
2. To NEVER let my gaurd down with her and always be looking out for casual comments. 

It's a sucky way to have to deal with your ex, but it's the only solution to the problem. I have said some bad things in emails before, but I am not the type to write an FU letter.

So it's put the email under my control and chant the mantra "Only the kids, Only the kids, Only the kids..." for a minute before I open her folder...

Hell I think I will change the name of her folder to "only the kids"

Okay, I think my rant is over.
Thanks for letting me vent...as you can see this has been weighing heavily on my mind.


----------



## Jellybeans

Option 3 is best: Do not talk to her about anything other than co-parenting. Stop engaging/responding to her if it is not about your kid.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> Option 3 is best: Do not talk to her about anything other than co-parenting. Stop engaging/responding to her if it is not about your kid.


I thought that was the idea behind option 2 ( as in never letting your gaurd down and only talking kids ), but if the option is raised...then I choose three as well.


----------



## Thundarr

SamuraiJack said:


> I thought that was the idea behind option 2 ( as in never letting your gaurd down and only talking kids ), but if the option is raised...then I choose three as well.


My ex was easy compared to yours. Everything you say sound similar but mine wasn't nearly as persistent.


----------



## Jellybeans

SamuraiJack said:


> I thought that was the idea behind option 2 ( as in never letting your gaurd down and only talking kids ), but if the option is raised...then I choose three as well.


No, beccuse you said "always be on the look out for casual comments."

You are still worried about her. Which means you're not over her.

Which means until you are and actually stop worrying about her comments or what she may say, you are stuck in "more of the same."

Your attitude has to change.

What she says is MOOT now unless it relates to you kid.


----------



## Jellybeans

Thundarr said:


> My ex was easy compared to yours. Everything you say sound similar but mine wasn't nearly as persistent.


That's because he hasn't taken a hard line yet.

Samurai, you may just want to tell her the next time she reaches out and starts talking about stuff other than your kid:

_"We are divorced now. Our former relationship is long gone. From now on I only want to discuss co-parenting issues with you. Thanks."_

Samurai--my ex would constantly try to have conversations about me about everything and then start talking about unrelated things or getting frustrated while rehashing out relationship. It took a lot of energy out of me. One day I just told him "I'm not doing this with you. From now on, I am only discussing the divorce with you. Please do not call me or contact me about anything other than the divorce." He listened. He was pissed at first, but he listened. This was when we were going through the divorce. So afterward, it wasn't even an issue anymore. Today, we are friends. 

You just need to get boundaries and stick to them.


----------



## EasyPartner

Thundarr said:


> My ex was easy compared to yours. Everything you say sound similar but mine wasn't nearly as persistent.


Same in my case. But still. I find this thread very interesting.

A while ago I started a thread about my gf being very cross about me and my ex being on speaking, even cordial terms in our inevitable contacts regarding the kids and custodial arrangements (and my horse ).

Wise TAM ers responded, short version:

- you don't have interaction or cordial relationship with an ex. Except if you have kids, then it's imperative.

- some even mentioned they had birthday parties etc... where ex attended too. I wouldnt go so far personally.

- if gf wouldnt except that, totally unreasonable. Too bad for her, plenty of fish in the sea.

NB: we did break up over it, but reconciled a week later 

And now Jack, divorced 3 years ago, says his ex wants to get on a bit more amical terms then before... dang!

Anyway... I stated my theory about that before. She doesn't want you back Jack.... she just wants you to relax.

BTW... the near emotional affair had me :rofl:


----------



## Rowan

I realized the other day that my ex-husband is just very, very, accustomed to thinking of me as part of himself. To the extent that he continues in that line even now that we're divorced. His girlfriend broke up with him, he showed up at my house wanting to talk about what happened.  When we were married, I often noticed that he seemed to not consider that I might be a separate person with my own thoughts, feelings, emotions, needs, etc. He just expected me to be part of, and continually in step with, him. He's pretty narcissistic and completely lacking in boundaries of any type. 

I wonder if a bit of that is happening with your ex-wife SJ? 

I continue to have to tell him when he's being inappropriate, delete non-relevant emails, ask him to stop calling at all hours, ignore his texts, etc. Because he still seems to think that his emotional state is my problem. We're very cordial and our divorce was extremely amicable. He's just not clueing in to the reality that we are, in fact, divorced. And that I'm not a part of him, am under no obligation to be there for him, and that it's just not okay to run to me when something comes up. I have to work hard at keeping him shut down, and be vigilant about not allowing him to encroach, while at the same time remaining cordial and continuing to co-parent. It can be a bit of a balancing act.


----------



## Jellybeans

Rowan said:


> His girlfriend broke up with him, he showed up at my house wanting to talk about what happened.


I don't know why, but this made me laugh.


----------



## Rowan

Jellybeans said:


> I don't know why, but this made me laugh.


Me, too.....


----------



## Thundarr

Jellybeans said:


> I don't know why, but this made me laugh.





Rowan said:


> Me, too.....


karma :toast:


----------



## philglossop

Thundarr said:


> karma :toast:


Bumped innocently into my X yesterday, the first time I've seen him in 3 months.

A simple 'Alright' was all that came out of my mouth. We aren't going to be friends long term and as I was in a pub having a pint I downed that and left to save any chance of a conversation taking place.

Sad to think 12 years is now down to 1 word. Ah well!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppyseed

Thundarr said:


> karma :toast:


This cracked me up all day yesterday. :rofl:


----------



## SamuraiJack

Well, the game has been upped and she has brought her mother into the fray.
My oldest is driving age now and despite an agreement we have that we both need to sign off on her getting a car, the grandmother has decided that she wants to "help". She is getting my oldest's hopes up with the prospect of a car. She is even taking her on shopping trips for cars.

Since she wont talk to me, this places an odd pressure on the situation. The grandmother hasnt talked to me since the divorce.

My solution was simply to tell the ex that if my oldest "appeared" with a car, that whoever bought it for her would be responsible for the repairs. I made it abundantly clear that I was to be consulted on any purchases greater than 500 dollars for her, as was our original agreement.

So far, so good.


----------



## JWTBL

My ex is doing the same sort of thing, to a lesser degree. I think it is a guilt thing, they must figure if they can be on buddy terms with the person they ripped the heart out of, maybe what they did really wasn't so bad. Perhaps in 5 years I will have dissolved most of the hurt , but it won't be on his time schedule. It's been 2 yrs., and he just recently asked me if I still like elephants, because he was thinking of buying me a necklace that had elephants. This from a person who has moved away from his family, kids, grandson, to be closer to a high school girlfriend , who has not even moved out of her house with her husband yet! You just have to chalk it up to the fact that some people are just deranged, and some of us have been unlucky enough to marry them. Keep up the good work, samarai! You sound like a great guy. Although I also feel you may be rushing into this other relationship- her having 2 previous marriages sounds like a red flag to me, although of course what do I know. Keep on keeping on!


----------



## SamuraiJack

Oh I readily admit to my GF that I wasnt truly ready. But she, being the great gal that she is, let me work things out a bit and get myself pretty much right. She says Im miles ahead of any other man she has met. She is also the most reasonable person I have met. She took a long break after her second marriage and worked on herself for around 8 years and raised her son.
We bumped into each other on a dating site and got along really well.
I was originally just going to cat around for a bit, but sometimes a good thing appears when you least expect it.
So we had a lot of fun through the honeymoon period and decided we were good for each other after the fade.
That was a few years ago.

The ex just doesnt get the idea that everyone has different schedules. She wants to be buddies so she can let herself off the hook for her shabby treatment of me and disrupting her daughter's lives.


----------



## EasyPartner

Hey Jack!

Your GF sounds wonderful :smthumbup:

Be sure you put your energy in her (instead of your ex) and make her feel special, honeymoon or not.

Your ex is merely somebody that you used to know... but unfortunately she's also the mother of your children, so you are condemned to still have interactions with her. NC for committed co-parents does not exist.

The bitterness is still there, I know. It may fade in time. Maybe it never will completely in your case, only time will tell.

Main problem is, your ex can still push your buttons and get at you. And even if she isn't, her actions are perceived as such.

So you may want to do what I did the first months after the separation. 

Act as if. Show nothing but calm, even aloofness, shiny indifference. Fake it till you make it. This attitude will become second nature around her and maybe she won't feel the urge to engage you unnecessarily about your former marriage then.

Except if you really want her to ?


----------



## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> The ex just doesnt get the idea that everyone has different schedules. She wants to be buddies so she can let herself off the hook for her shabby treatment of me and disrupting her daughter's lives.


It would be difficult. 
She needs to learn to accept people have feelings.


----------



## poppyseed

EasyPartner said:


> Act as if. Show nothing but calm, even aloofness, shiny indifference. Fake it till you make it. This attitude will become second nature around her and maybe she won't feel the urge to engage you unnecessarily about your former marriage then.
> 
> Except if you really want her to ?


I'm not sure if my case is similar to sam's ex wanting to be a buddy but my ex does seem to want to maintain a "relationship" /friendship post-D. Formerly, I was ok about that and in fact, I thought how sociable he really is etc at the time. Since things moved on, I am more aware of my own indifference / uninterested in keeping that "umbilical cord". I no longer want to have much contact with him. It's interesting how things turn out. I don't have much interest in what he does who he sees where he spent his holidays etc. In fact, I don't even ask. After D, I perceive him as if he's a stranger though I treat him like a neighbour, perhaps. Nothing more. We went out once to spend one afternoon and personally, I didn't enjoy the afternoon. I realised suddenly how uninteresting this person really was and how much compromises I was constantly making to accommodate his needs throughout our marriage. 

If he wants to stay as a buddy, that's ok but nobody would be excited about that...


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## EasyPartner

poppyseed said:


> I'm not sure if my case is similar to sam's ex wanting to be a buddy but my ex does seem to want to maintain a "relationship" /friendship post-D. Formerly, I was ok about that and in fact, I thought how sociable he really is etc at the time. Since things moved on, I am more aware of my own indifference / uninterested in keeping that "umbilical cord". I no longer want to have much contact with him. It's interesting how things turn out. I don't have much interest in what he does who he sees where he spent his holidays etc. In fact, I don't even ask. After D, I perceive him as if he's a stranger though I treat him like a neighbour, perhaps. Nothing more. We went out once to spend one afternoon and personally, I didn't enjoy the afternoon. I realised suddenly how uninteresting this person really was and how much compromises I was constantly making to accommodate his needs throughout our marriage.
> 
> If he wants to stay as a buddy, that's ok but nobody would be excited about that...


Same here Poppy. Friendly neighbours.

And that's exactly where you want to be, too. Jack is not there yet though. 

Anecdote.... ex asked me to take care of her rabbit yesterday, cause she, kids and her platonic friend are going on vacation for a week. Uh, don't think so. Got other things to do. She should know better by now. But hey, what ever.


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## poppyseed

EasyPartner said:


> Uh, don't think so. Got other things to do. She should know better by now._ But hey, what ever._



:iagree: Yes. I totally appreciate your sentiment there.


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## SamuraiJack

EasyPartner said:


> Hey Jack!
> 
> Your GF sounds wonderful :smthumbup:
> 
> Be sure you put your energy in her (instead of your ex) and make her feel special, honeymoon or not.
> 
> Your ex is merely somebody that you used to know... but unfortunately she's also the mother of your children, so you are condemned to still have interactions with her. NC for committed co-parents does not exist.
> 
> The bitterness is still there, I know. It may fade in time. Maybe it never will completely in your case, only time will tell.
> 
> Main problem is, your ex can still push your buttons and get at you. And even if she isn't, her actions are perceived as such.
> 
> So you may want to do what I did the first months after the separation.
> 
> Act as if. Show nothing but calm, even aloofness, shiny indifference. Fake it till you make it. This attitude will become second nature around her and maybe she won't feel the urge to engage you unnecessarily about your former marriage then.
> 
> Except if you really want her to ?


Yes. My GF is a pretty terrific person. I love her to bits. 

The aloof you describe IS what I do. I dont interract for many months and then I think to myself "Ah...well she finally gave up. I can let it rest. "
The problem is she seems to SENSE when I do that and then starts in with the slow, insidious penetration to my buttons.

I think this last time was pretty telling. She was seriously taken aback by my absolute adherence to the boundary and insisting on the re-write of her request. I think it may be the result of 17 years of ingrained behavior. Its a dysfunctional way of interacting with me that she has built up over the years.
I swear she does not even know she is doing it sometimes.

I just now truly KNOW that I cant ever really let my shields down.
ITs taken me a few years to learn it, but the truth is she will ALWAYS weasal her way back in somehow.

EasyPartner: You and I seem to have similar stories.


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## EasyPartner

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes. My GF is a pretty terrific person. I love her to bits.
> 
> 
> 
> EasyPartner: You and I seem to have similar stories.


:iagree:

You have a head start of about 1.5 years though.

And my GF is a bit more dramatic than yours. But hey, she's a package deal. Same as anyone really.


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## SamuraiJack

EasyPartner said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You have a head start of about 1.5 years though.
> 
> And my GF is a bit more dramatic than yours. But hey, she's a package deal. Same as anyone really.


Well, its kinda sad that I can never let my gaurd down. If I could, maybe things could be a little more amicable, but each time I do I get sucked in.

I wish you great luck and happiness with your girlfriend.

I find drama is sometimes "overcaring"...had one like that once.


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## Jellybeans

You only get sucked in if you choose to be sucked in.


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## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans said:


> You only get sucked in if you choose to be sucked in.


Tell that to the black hole that was once my favorite sun...


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## Wolf1974

Was never an option for me. My x wife was my best friend but she betrayed me. I have no place for liars in my life. Just couldn't happen


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