# suspicious behavior...



## tuborg

Hello all,

Recently, I have become very suspicious about my wife’s behaviour.

I would just like to know what others have done to find out if their spouse has cheated.

I’ve thought about checking her phone, but I can’t seem to bring myself to do that. 

Thanks in advance.


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## PBear

tuborg said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Recently, I have become very suspicious about my wife’s behaviour.
> 
> I would just like to know what others have done to find out if their spouse has cheated.
> 
> I’ve thought about checking her phone, but I can’t seem to bring myself to do that.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Dude,

There's tons of posts in here describing what to do to track down a cheating spouse. But if you don't have the guts to check her phone, you're not going to get far.

You could start by describing her suspicious behaviour, I guess...

C


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## tuborg

My apologies,

I guess I should have done a little more research before posting. I'll take a look around before posting.

I feel like I'm going nuts...

Thanks


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## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> My apologies,
> 
> I guess I should have done a little more research before posting. I'll take a look around before posting.
> 
> I feel like I'm going nuts...
> 
> Thanks


Maybe start by looking at the phone bill for an excessive amount of calls/texts to a given number (or numbers) that you don't recognize.

What type of phone does she have?


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## GusPolinski

Just saw your other comment from http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/184529-am-i-reading-into-things.html ...



tuborg said:


> I've been really suspicious of my wife recently as well. Something I've noticed is that she comes home an hour or two later than she normally would some days. She won't kiss me or come close to me before taking a shower, and she throws all of her clothes in the washing machine before taking a shower. Claims she's "sweaty"...


She may very well be "sweaty". The question is WHY...? Either way, these are all very bad signs. HUGE red flags.


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## PBear

tuborg said:


> My apologies,
> 
> I guess I should have done a little more research before posting. I'll take a look around before posting.
> 
> I feel like I'm going nuts...
> 
> Thanks


No worries. My point was more that you're going to need to get the stomach to do some digging. Unless you want to toss some money at a PI... But even then, you may have to deal with some unpleasant news.

C


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## tuborg

She has an iPhone.

Recently she started an Art Class that she attends once a week, and after the class she usually stays out to have dinner with her classmates. The class ends around 8 and she arrives home arround 10. A few weeks into the course she came home tipsy.

Now I've noticed after class she's too tired to... But I understand because she has to get up early for work the following day. These nights too, occassionaly, not always, she wants to hit the shower before coming to bed. This is not very unusual for her. The thing that is bugging me is that she brings up the teacher every now and again, how interesting his life has been. I know the guy is married, but something just feels off...


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## Lostinthought61

While she is in the shower check her under garment for any foreign substance....also place a VAR in her car. Good luck


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

tuborg said:


> She has an iPhone.
> 
> Recently she started an Art Class that she attends once a week, and after the class she usually stays out to have dinner with her classmates. The class ends around 8 and she arrives home arround 10. A few weeks into the course she came home tipsy.
> 
> Now I've noticed after class she's too tired to... But I understand because she has to get up early for work the following day. These nights too, occassionaly, not always, she wants to hit the shower before coming to bed. This is not very unusual for her. The thing that is bugging me is that she brings up the teacher every now and again, how interesting his life has been. I know the guy is married, but something just feels off...


Seeing you haven't mentioned it, I'm assuming that you don't have kids yet... If this is the case, why the hell wouldn't you just wait for art class to be over and follow her? Are you afraid of what you're probably going to find?

It seems pretty obvious to me(and most here also) that she's probably having sex with someone besides you.


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## X-unknown

I don't think this is a question about man-ing up enough. I think what your asking is if this is proper or not. I had the same question. Am I being a creep for looking at her phone records? I asked a doctor type (Who deals with this) and she said it was totally NOT creepy and if there were similar circumstances she would do it. If you find a number thats texted or called all the time *And its not you and its not the home phone? I can't explain how bad it feels to know something is going on. On the other hand if you look at the phone bill for the last year and there is no pattern? I would take that phone snooping secret to the grave. 

For whatever this is worth - I think you should not show the "proof" until you've figured out what to do. Maybe Marriage therapist - expert advice and not the internet. Don't do anything you can't undo without spending some time to think rationally. 

I hope you don't find anything.


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## thummper

Tuborg I'm seeing red flags briskly waving in the breeze: Obsessing about the "teacher;" late "dinners" after class; when she finally does wander in, no hugs or even coming near you until she showers; immediately tosses clothes in the wash. I mean, how "sweaty" can you get just going to dinner after class? Something smells, and it's not her sweatiness. Grab her underwear from the hamper and have it checked. I'd be surprised if there might not be some kind of foreign substance in the crotch area. Luck to you in your quest. I truly hope you don't find anything....sincerely.


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## thummper

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Seeing you haven't mentioned it, I'm assuming that you don't have kids yet... If this is the case, *why the hell wouldn't you just wait for art class to be over and follow her? Are you afraid of what you're probably going to find?*
> It seems pretty obvious to me(and most here also) that she's probably having sex with someone besides you.


An excellent point, Groundpounder! Come on, Tuborg, channel your internal Sherlock Holmes and get to the bottom of this mystery, although most of us here don't think there's much of a mystery. She's sneaking around.


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## Intheknow

I'd probably start by asking what the deal is with the showering and washing clothes after art class. Don't ask it in a suspicious manner, laugh at it and ask if she's working with hazardous materials? See what she says.

Or you can simply ask her if there's something you both need to talk about in regards to your marriage, is she happy? is there something that needs to be fixed? should you go to counselor? 

If you suspect she may be having an emotional or physical affair, do not ask her or accuse her. Let her do what she does and go where she goes. The first thing I did to determine if my wife was cheating were:

Follow her after class or meeting. Wait in parking lot of restaurant if another late night dinner with class happens.


Ask her closed end questions like:
How was class? What did you do in class? Where did you meet for after class dinner? Have you made any new friends in class? Is the teacher a good artist? Let her talk, and listen. 
If she gets evasive or defensive, something is up.


Next check your phone and mobile bill. Look for late night calls or texts (after 7pm)
Look for texts or calls made on the dates of the class. Look for grouped texts from same number. If same number keeps appearing at times you are not together (at work, after bedtime, late nights, while shopping or at friends house) you have a red flag. 

This is when I looked at the phone logs and texts. 

look at phone log for all incoming, outgoing and missed calls.
If the frequent or suspicious phone number doesnt show on phone as it does on bill, its been deleted. Red Flag.
Look at her phone text history. If you don't find revealing texts from OM,(usually deleted ) look at her best friend's messages for any signs of meeting or talking about OM. If that's the case then my next step would be to Dr. Fone by wondershare.com. Undeletes all texts on phone.

Other ways to get proof or ease your mind:
Check bank statements for unusual debits or large cash withdraws before late nights. Check pockets of coats, look for reciepts for pharmacy, restaurants and bars, gas stations in other parts of town. Check for new underwear purchases, hair appointments, hotels. 

The showering after art class and dinner is a serious red flag. 
Immediately washing clothes is too. Unplug the washer when she's at the next art class. Examine clothing for mens cologne, look at undies for residue.

I'm not a professional, and don't know the legalities of my suggestions, and I've gone farther than this when exposing my WW's affair. I hope it works out for you.

Cheers


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## rustytheboyrobot

Sorry Tuborg. So very sorry.


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## FormerSelf

The random mentions of the teacher may be what some call "leaking". The unconscious act of bleeding out some guilt.


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## betrayed2013

usually they say to trust ur gut and ur gut is clearly saying to u that something is up....now from wat ive read and since ive been screwed over by my stbxw, i understand why ur thinking something is up.....but there is def. no obvious signs of cheating......u say she started an art class and that people are going out after for dinner or drinks or whatever......right there she is either going out with the teacher one on one or in a small group or it truly is a dinner afterwards and theyre discussing art or whatever.....this can be confirmed by tailing her after she leaves the class. Secondly she comes home and wants to have a shower becuz shes sweaty. Well this is a tad concerning. Altho u did state that she sometimes does shower at night. So shes either going out one on one with the teacher and bangin him and she needs to change becuz she got all sweaty and smells of him or she just has a sweat problem and she truly just wants to shower. The no sex thing doesnt help things altho i think women at times just would rather do something else than sex. I know I found myself checking my x wifes panties to see if there was something amiss, but without checking with a dna guy, good luck figuring out wats up with them. Good luck to u but u need to tail her and ck her phone, becuz all women love to text and that is going to be their main form of communication. Also put a VAR in her car. You'll get lots of info if that works out for u.


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## honcho

People are generally creatures of habit and if the patterns suddenly change you should take notice. One item out of the norm usually is not a big deal but from your post and things mentioned in your other posts it looks like several things are happening at once which should cause some concern especially the not kissing before showering after being out. 

How long as she been attending this art class? Bring yourself to check the phone, internet usage. Does she use facebook a great deal? Start doing some research and force yourself to do it. Something has caught her eye from the sounds of it. She may just have an admiration for the teacher. She may be trying to earn extra credit…if your suspisious of something your best bet is digging and find out now, not waiting. Don’t think you can ask her and the more you question her the more she will try to hide something if something is going on. 

Has she ever invited you to meet after class when they go out? Have you asked and she said no?


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## Mostlycontent

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Seeing you haven't mentioned it, I'm assuming that you don't have kids yet... *If this is the case, why the hell wouldn't you just wait for art class to be over and follow her? Are you afraid of what you're probably going to find?*
> 
> It seems pretty obvious to me(and most here also) that she's probably having sex with someone besides you.



I totally agree. This is the easiest and best way to figure out what's going on first hand. Forget all the snooping crap and go see for yourself.

About 7 years ago my wife was going out with her girlfriends a bit too much for my liking and I became rather ticked off about it. I wanted to determine why the interest level in going out more frequently seemed to change. My mind started to wander about it and I became suspicious. Rather than play 20 questions with her, like you'd get the truth anyway, I decided to go to the club where I knew she and her friends would be and watch her. As it turned out, she wasn't doing anything inappropriate but it was good that I got to see it first hand.


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## jack.c

Can you be a little more specific about your relationship? I mean.... how is your life toghether? are you a happy couple? is ther isues unresolved? etc etc. 
In a few words has ther been problems between you 2?


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## DarkHoly

Sorry man. 

I know putting numbers on things is usually not a good thing to do but honestly.

Honestly. 75% chance she's cheating.


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## MattMatt

You need to meet the art teacher. Don't you need some original artwork on the walls of your home?

Get your wife to arrange a meeting eith him over a nice, relaxing dinner. 

Joining the after class dinner would be an excellent idea. 


If she says no be even more watchful. If yes, scope him out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

Tuborg:
If you have suspicions and you can't bring yourself to check her phone, if for nothing else than to put your mind at ease, you are doomed to have problems. You need to do two things in my opinion to ease your mind or confirm your suspicions. You need to check the phone and you need to go to the art class to see what's going on. If your 'tummy' is telling you something is wrong, then usually something is wrong. Stop talking about it and analyzing the situation just go and do something.


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## weightlifter

Too few details to get anything but the standard copy paste but here.
30 cheating wives and 2 cheating husbands hate me.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history! 

Credit tacoma 03072014

This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history

Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything she has said into the phone is right here.
I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to.

Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS.

Edit: It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## Forest

Tuborg-- Sorry you are going thru this, and hope the posters aren't firing out more than you want to deal with right away. I realize you are new around here, I'm fairly new, too.

It might take searching search terms or looking over old threads, but there is a ton of info on here to help you gather intel on you wife. VAR means Voice Activated Recorder, which many have uses very successfully. "Weightlifter", I believe is an expert in the field and has posted lots on which models are best.

Try to get your phone records ASAP to see what she's up to on the phone. Credit card statements, too.

Based on what you describe, especially your gut, sure sounds fishy.

edit: see, I told you Weightlifter was an expert.


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## weightlifter

Didnt we have an art teacher banging a student about 15 months ago?

We get married adult classmates banging each other about once a month.

Art class=figure drawing?


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## MattMatt

weightlifter said:


> Didnt we have an art teacher banging a student about 15 months ago?
> 
> We get married adult classmates banging each other about once a month.
> 
> Art class=figure drawing?


Also they go for: "You have the soul of an artist. Like I do. I understand you. Your husband, he is a nice man, but he isn't on your wavelength like I am."

Then it degenerates to "let me slip you a length" and before you know it, they are cheating. But it is OK as he is her artistic soulmate, she is the artist's muse! Yuck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Shrug. Lets see if OP shows up again and fills in some of the 99999 blanks and not a drive by poster.


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## Cubby

Another guy who's afraid to check his wife's phone. It amazes me how widespread this mindset is.

Anyway I'll bet his wife's phone is attached to her at all times. Under the pillow at night, all that stuff.....


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## Blacksmith01

Even if she's hiding her phone and it is an iPhone I believe. If he has access to her iCloud account then he can sign her up through that one website and get every single text message photo and phone call for like six bucks a month. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post it up here unless someone else has it on the tip of their tongue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Really the phone is one of the latter tries. Too easy to fvck it up. VARs, Icloud, bill histories are easier and LOWER risk.


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## 6301

Well so far your sweating putty balls because you suspect something yet, you wont check to see if it's real or your imagination playing tricks on you.

Now if that's the case do you plan on making this a life style? When your gut is telling you something is wrong, it's not bad sushi, it's because something is wrong, so friend if you don't start now, expect it to get worse down the line and then your going to be way over your head. 

If you feel that your wife is stepping out on you, then she already has a leg up on you and she's going to continue and the both legs are going to be up and behind her neck so stop wasting time and find out what's going on.


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## Whip Morgan

I believe the information posted to help a spouse track a suspected WS should be PMed and not openly posted. To easy for a cheating spouse to come along and read the information.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Whip Morgan said:


> I believe the information posted to help a spouse track a suspected WS should be PMed and not openly posted. To easy for a cheating spouse to come along and read the information.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd argue the few detrimental discoveries are miniscule, to the amount of posters who were helped by these public posts.


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## Whip Morgan

That's a good point, Philly. Didn't think of it that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tuborg

Hi all,
First I would to thank everyone that responded, I’m amazed by all the info. Some of it was very difficult to read, and I need some time process all of it…

A little more about the situation. She started the class 6 months ago. She asked me over the holidays if we could have the teacher and his wife over for dinner, which I of course agreed, I wanted meet the guy. Now turns out she texted him (That’s when I found out she has his phone number) But he never responded. Apparently, he lost his cell phone over the holidays…

Another thing, she has told me about flirty comments he has made towards her and he has asked her about our sex life!? She has told me this freely, without me asking. When I heard this I wanted to drive down to the school and kick the living crap out of this guy. I was calm and a little devoid of emotion so as not to appear insecure. I told her that I thought his comments were inappropriate, and she agreed. She has also told me about other comments he has made towards other female students.

Now a couple of months ago she brought him up again, and yes I screwed up, and asked her if he has made any advances towards her. She said no, and that I was paranoid, and I dropped it. I have not brought it up since. The class ended a few weeks ago. The next level begins in May, she has not mentioned any desire of taking it, but I would not be surprised to learn that she enrols for it.

About a couple of weekends ago, she told me that he texted her about an art show. She did not go, we spent the weekend together, and I did not ask any more details about the nature of this message.

Her phone is password protected. She’s got one of those new iPhones that uses fingerprint identification and her Mac book is password protected. She has always had passwords, I do the same. 

I did drive by the school once, but felt like a creep and left. 

Thanks Weightlifer for all the info, I’m going to have to re-read your post a few times. I like the idea for a pen VAR for her purse and another one for the apartment. I have the day off tomorrow, she doesn’t know. I’m going to go look at some VARs. 

Oh, I have looked through her purse periodically and have found nothing…


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## Forest

OK, how about this:

This evening approach her and ask:
"Honey, didn't you say your art teacher is named Joe Schwettyballs?"

Her: "Yeah, why?"

You: "was at the drugstore today, and asked at the pharmacy counter about ( sudafed, eye drops, claritan, whatever) two women were talking to the pharmacist about a medication, and one was very agitated. I heard her say 'Joe Schwettyballs gave it to me and I don't care who knows.' "

Her: "Wha..."

You: "Think he's got an STD?"


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## Cubby

A common "sign of a cheating spouse" is for her to mention his name or talk about him fairly often when there is early interest in the guy, and then, when things heat up, and she's actually cheating with him, to completely clam up about him.


----------



## convert

Forest said:


> OK, how about this:
> 
> This evening approach her and ask:
> "Honey, didn't you say your art teacher is named Joe Schwettyballs?"
> 
> Her: "Yeah, why?"
> 
> You: "was at the drugstore today, and asked at the pharmacy counter about ( sudafed, eye drops, claritan, whatever) two women were talking to the pharmacist about a medication, and one was very agitated. I heard her say 'Joe Schwettyballs gave it to me and I don't care who knows.' "
> 
> Her: "Wha..."
> 
> You: "Think he's got an STD?"



I kind of like that but have the VARs in place so when she goes off to maybe call you might get something


----------



## convert

Cubby said:


> A common "sign of a cheating spouse" is for her to mention his name or talk about him fairly often when there is early interest in the guy, and then, when things heat up, and she's actually cheating with him, to completely clam up about him.


:iagree:

We see this all the time
almost every time

right out of cheaters script


----------



## convert

well if the class is over watch for her to find another reason to get out of the house (if the affair is still going on)

GNO (girls night out)
shopping
visit a friend
visit a family member
long lunch during work
leave work early


----------



## Rugs

I am a female and I don't see huge red flags here. 

BUT......

TRUST YOUR GUT! 

If you feel something is off, investigate. I hope you don't find anything bad.


----------



## barbados

convert said:


> :iagree:
> 
> We see this all the time
> almost every time
> 
> right out of cheaters script


I agree with this in almost all cases. 

Just wonder if in this case though if its just because she knows mentioning him pisses off OP so she does not. She seemed forthcoming about how he was flirty with her before and with others in class.

OP should still of course verify things to be sure.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think you should do the things others have mentioned (VAR, checking her panties, etc.).

The biggest thing is don't act too soon. If you get some evidence that looks bad, don't confront her. Wait until you have undisputable evidence. If you confront her with something she can explain away, she will just take the affair underground and it will be very difficult to get more evidence.


----------



## missthelove2013

dont let her know your suspicious, you dont want her to go underground with it

you need PROOF...get some VARS, hide them in her car, purse, your bedroom...wherever...

There are plenty of posts/threads concerning gathering proof so I wont go into it all...keyloggers, gps on her phone...

do it...

if you get the proof, EXPOSE this to everyone, starting with this posom's wife...KILL this affair

If she wants you to hang with pos and his wife, if it were me I would do it...so you and posom's wife become familiar, that way if and when you HAVE to expose to her, your not a complete stranger...


----------



## Graywolf2

Testing panties:

This tests for Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA) and not for male DNA. PSA is a protein that is produced by the prostate gland of all normal males. The higher a man’s PSA level, the more likely it is that he has prostate cancer. Cancer detection is its primary use. Women don’t have a prostate gland.

You should not have sex with her for at least 3 to 5 days before you collect the sample or you could be detecting yourself. Longer without sex is even better.

Search for pantie semen test online.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Play dumb. 

Got kids? If not, rent a car, take time off work if you need to, and follow her around next time she has class; or a Friday night out with friends. If she takes the new class in May, follow her afterwards. VAR in her car is great idea. 

Do not ask her for phone passwords at this point- it will force her further underground if in fact anything is up. Just play dumb.

8 hours work + 2 hours art class + 2 hours dinner/drinks afterwards and She comes home and immediately does laundry? Is your last name Tide?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badmemory

Red flags:

1 - Staying out late with "friends"

2 - Protecting her cell phone

3 - Texting OM

4 - Talking to you about OM (this is quite common for cheaters)

Too many of them to ignore. Follow the advice on monitoring her, particularly the VAR. Don't confront any more until one of two things happen; you find a smoking gun or you've monitored 2 to 3 weeks and find nothing. If you find nothing, then you "demand" no contact anyway. 

Keep posting. We'll help you.


----------



## tom67

badmemory said:


> Red flags:
> 
> 1 - Staying out late with "friends"
> 
> 2 - Protecting her cell phone
> 
> 3 - Texting OM
> 
> 4 - Talking to you about OM (this is quite common for cheaters)
> 
> Too many of them to ignore. Follow the advice on monitoring her, particularly the VAR. Don't confront any more until one of two things happen; you find a smoking gun or you've monitored 2 to 3 weeks and find nothing. If you find nothing, then you "demand" no contact anyway.
> 
> Keep posting. We'll help you.


I hope you have all her passwords.


----------



## warlock07

Forest said:


> OK, how about this:
> 
> This evening approach her and ask:
> "Honey, didn't you say your art teacher is named Joe Schwettyballs?"
> 
> Her: "Yeah, why?"
> 
> You: "was at the drugstore today, and asked at the pharmacy counter about ( sudafed, eye drops, claritan, whatever) two women were talking to the pharmacist about a medication, and one was very agitated. I heard her say 'Joe Schwettyballs gave it to me and I don't care who knows.' "
> 
> Her: "Wha..."
> 
> You: "Think he's got an STD?"


this is very obvious..

If she is not cheating, he will come off as incredibly insecure.

If she is cheating, she will be alerted and be more careful.


----------



## LongWalk

How old are you? How long have you been married? Do you have children?

Did your wife have many boyfriends/sex partners before you married?


----------



## BobSimmons

Rugs said:


> I am a female and I don't see huge red flags here.
> 
> BUT......
> 
> TRUST YOUR GUT!
> 
> If you feel something is off, investigate. I hope you don't find anything bad.


Holy crap, I'm reading this thread going, ok, a lot of circumstantial evidence, nothing truly incriminating and people are talking about testing panties for semen!!!

*Recently she started an Art Class that she attends once a week, and after the class she usually stays out to have dinner with her classmates. The class ends around 8 and she arrives home around 10. A few weeks into the course she came home tipsy.*

Very easy to verify where she was having dinner..unless they're going to a different restaurant every week. How far away is her school from your house? There's a two hour window, to get to the venue, drink, eat then make the journey home.

Then again most here might think, she's taking a couple of quick shots, having sex then coming home.I guess anything is possible in two hours but shucks...maybe she was actually having dinner with classmates.

*Now I've noticed after class she's too tired to... But I understand because she has to get up early for work the following day. *

You understand what she's doing is physically and mentally demanding and yet some small part of you dismisses it and still thinks she's cheating..especially when..

*These nights too, occassionaly, not always, she wants to hit the shower before coming to bed. This is not very unusual for her. *

So after a demanding full day of working, going to school, she gets home and has a shower before she sleeps..but not always, sometimes she just sleeps and doesn't shower because maybe she had a demanding day and was too tired..but still that's a red flag to you..

*The thing that is bugging me is that she brings up the teacher every now and again, how interesting his life has been. I know the guy is married, but something just feels off...*

And maybe he did have an interesting life..maybe he was BS'ing, but your wife did talk to you about it..it's ok to be jealous but when you add up everything and let paranoia create something that is not there, you end up doing drive bys by her school.

This guy from what you said about him asking her about your sex life, maybe a player but what exactly did he say? 

So no more classes, so now is she still going out regularly or going missing? Apparently he texted something about an art show but she stayed with you that weekend.

I'd talk to her about boundaries and what is off limits to talk about with her teacher, ask her what her plans are for the course,put your mind at ease.


----------



## weightlifter

One thing. IF you hear her start to get busy with someone. STOP LISTENING and have a friend do it for you. You will fvck your mind up worse hearing her moan with another man inside her.

A number of women have said the pen var would be found. Dunno. The sony ones I mention, one in car one in apt are easy to hide.


----------



## weightlifter

Reviewed the thread. Do the low level stuff first.
Check cell bills.
Any recent GNOs or other excuses to leave the house?
How many times did she go out?
What fraction came home tipsy?
ALWAYS back by 10ish?

IM reading 33-40% cheating not 75%. worth looking. Do the cheap VARs in a few days after reviewing bills and looking at what she has downloaded into that phone. Chat apps? Words with friends?
Give list.

WHAT KIND of art class? If you dont want to post PM me. Generic description is OK. Figure study or pottery is sufficient.

Does she synch to Itunes?


----------



## X-unknown

Cubby said:


> Another guy who's afraid to check his wife's phone. It amazes me how widespread this mindset is.
> 
> Anyway I'll bet his wife's phone is attached to her at all times. Under the pillow at night, all that stuff.....


Don't you think its just possible he might feel that snooping is not quite right? That its not a testosterone level issue or whatever.

The whole spying on the wife thing has some baggage assuming someone's wife is not cheating. Right? I mean lets say you bug her car, purse download everything from her phone, hang a GPS on her and find nothing. What would a mutual friend think of your behavior? Seriously? What would she think if she found out? 

Now - I do agree that when the radar starts to sniff out this stuff its all fair in love and war. But its not the Victims fault for giving the benefit of the doubt and second guessing his own questionable behavior. 

I really hope that this guys radar is wrong and he just finds out his wife is passionate about art and not some douchbag.


----------



## WhiteRaven

X-unknown said:


> Don't you think its just possible he might feel that snooping is not quite right? That its not a testosterone level issue or whatever.
> 
> The whole spying on the wife thing has some baggage assuming someone's wife is not cheating. Right? I mean lets say you bug her car, purse download everything from her phone, hang a GPS on her and find nothing. What would a mutual friend think of your behavior? Seriously? What would she think if she found out?
> 
> Now - I do agree that when the radar starts to sniff out this stuff its all fair in love and war. But its not the Victims fault for giving the benefit of the doubt and second guessing his own questionable behavior.
> 
> I really hope that this guys radar is wrong and he just finds out his wife is passionate about art and not some douchbag.


:rofl:

Seriously?


----------



## mahike

Tuborg check the phone bill. The texts go through the roof when a WS is either in an EA or a PA. If there is more then one once and awhile I would be worried.

Everything my wife and I have phone, computers. tablets all are password protected but we both know each others passwords since my wife's PA


----------



## badmemory

X-unknown said:


> its not the Victims fault for giving the benefit of the doubt and second guessing his own questionable behavior.


I can assure you there is a very long list of BS's, including myself, who wished they had listened to their gut - and started monitoring sooner than they did.


----------



## WhiteRaven

badmemory said:


> I can assure you there is a very long list of BS's, including myself, who wished they had listened to their gut - and started monitoring sooner than they did.


When you feel something's not right, it actually is not right. Trust is what sank our boats.


----------



## Ripper

WhiteRaven said:


> When you feel something's not right, it actually is not right. Trust is what sank our boats.


Agree. 

Trust your gut, it lead you here. In my opinion, there are enough red flags flying to justify surveillance.


----------



## z_man

X-unknown said:


> Don't you think its just possible he might feel that snooping is not quite right?
> 
> The whole spying on the wife thing has some baggage assuming someone's wife is not cheating. Right? I mean lets say you bug her car, purse download everything from her phone, hang a GPS on her and find nothing. What would a mutual friend think of your behavior? Seriously? What would she think if she found out?
> 
> Now - I do agree that when the radar starts to sniff out this stuff its all fair in love and war. But its not the Victims fault for giving the benefit of the doubt and second guessing his own questionable behavior.
> 
> I really hope that this guys radar is wrong and he just finds out his wife is passionate about art and not some douchbag.



At a certain point in my marriage, I had suspicions about what my wife was up to. Certain things were not adding up and indicated possible cheating.

What did I do? I started checking car mileage vs. stated destinations, installed a caller id device on home phone line, installed a var on same phone line (predates cell phones and caller id service from phone company) phone logs from the phone company, reverse phone number searches, called unknown numbers from different phone, spot checks on panties, spot checks on whereabouts, tracked credit card activity and bank accounts.

What did I find? Nothing. 

How did I feel about it? Relief.

I had no remorse over my actions and would do it again (I spot check from time to time and have added email and cell phone monitoring) if I felt it was necessary.

Moral of the story is: 

Just because you have a problem with verifying your wife's behavior, doesn't mean everyone else should as well.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Ripper said:


> Agree.
> 
> Trust your gut, it lead you here. In my opinion, there are enough red flags flying to justify surveillance.


Trust in death. Verify everything else.


----------



## convert

z_man said:


> At a certain point in my marriage, I had suspicions about what my wife was up to. Certain things were not adding up and indicated possible cheating.
> 
> What did I do? I started checking car mileage vs. stated destinations, installed a caller id device on home phone line, installed a var on same phone line (predates cell phones and caller id service from phone company) phone logs from the phone company, reverse phone number searches, called unknown numbers from different phone, spot checks on panties, spot checks on whereabouts, tracked credit card activity and bank accounts.
> 
> What did I find? Nothing.
> 
> How did I feel about it? Relief.
> 
> I had no remorse over my actions and would do it again (I spot check from time to time and have added email and cell phone monitoring) if I felt it was necessary.
> 
> Moral of the story is:
> 
> Just because you have a problem with verifying your wife's behavior, doesn't mean everyone else should as well.


:iagree:and to some it would show that you are taking measures to protect the marriage


----------



## Cubby

X-unknown said:


> Don't you think its just possible he might feel that snooping is not quite right? That its not a testosterone level issue or whatever.
> 
> The whole spying on the wife thing has some baggage assuming someone's wife is not cheating. Right? I mean lets say you bug her car, purse download everything from her phone, hang a GPS on her and find nothing. What would a mutual friend think of your behavior? Seriously? What would she think if she found out?
> 
> Now - I do agree that when the radar starts to sniff out this stuff its all fair in love and war. But its not the Victims fault for giving the benefit of the doubt and second guessing his own questionable behavior.
> 
> I really hope that this guys radar is wrong and he just finds out his wife is passionate about art and not some douchbag.


If he thinks snooping's not quite right, then he's quite wrong. It's his wife. He shares a life with her. If he has suspicions then there's nothing wrong with looking at her phone and checking the phone records since it's so easy to do and there's nothing wrong with it, especially in light of the fact that infidelity in marriages happens quite often, if you believe the statistics. "Trust but verify" is the thought here.

By the way, I didn't say anything about GPS and bugging her car, did I? I'm not opposed to those things if the red flags are there, but under normal circumstances, where there are no warning signs, then no, that's going too far.


----------



## the guy

Don't assume it's the teacher....it could be anybody...it could be everybody!

She is going out after class....class is over...so the question is what are the current red flags and is her routine still the same as it was when she was taking a class?


You must protect your self so do the heavy lifting in stopping your self from her deceit and betrayal.
After all if you were her #1 priority she would come straight home and jump your bones no matter how sweaty she is.

Has she started putting her phone under her pillow yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PamJ

Don't feel guilty about snooping. There is something that is off and you feel it. If she is cheating, she will not tell you, and if she is not, she will say no, so, how would you know what is true?

Believe me, in 99% of the cases, it is the only way you will find out. They hardly ever confess on their own. They just don't.


----------



## tuborg

Hello all, I thought I’d give you all an update.

I’ve decided not to go ahead with the VAR quite yet, I’m going to check the phone bill when it comes at the end of the month, and take it from there.

If you recall my wife received a message from the teacher about an up coming art show. Well, it turns out my wife has an app on her phone that she rarely uses. It logs the last activity time and this can be seen by her contacts. Well I noticed that the last activity was about 3 days before said art show. Coincidence? I don’t know.

So yesterday, she was feeling a little frisky in the morning, but I didn’t have time… I had to get to work. She does this quite often, knowing that I’ll end up being late, which happens frequently. Anyways, so I noticed about 45 mins after I left she used the app. I called her after work, I had some good news, I got a great new job. I was laid off from a good job 2 years ago, and have been working at a very entry level position in my industry since then. This new position is actually a step up from the last one, so naturally I was excited to tell her. So, I told her I would like to go out on the weekend to celebrate. She sounded excited and happy. 

Turns out she was going for a girls night out. So, out of curiosity I check the app again, she had just used it again. So I’m thinking there is a beginner art class that this guy is teaching right now and the class ends at 8, I’m going to hang out around the school. I borrow a friend’s car and I drive over. I walked by the restaurant that I know they frequent after class, I know it was the right place because I have found receipts in her bag. I found nothing. I couldn’t find her car, but there are a million places to park around there. 

Afterwards I went for a drink with my friend, he thinks I’m paranoid. Perhaps he’s right. I got home around 10, she came home shortly after. She showered, and we went to sleep.
She hasn’t mentioned if she’s going to take up the next level art class, and I’m not going to ask if she is, I will wait for her to tell me. It starts in a couple of weeks. 

We haven’t been any less intimate in the past 6 months if that means anything. Maybe I’m paranoid, but I’m very suspicious of her, and I think she senses it. 

I got the Dr Fone app, but haven’t had an opportune time to access her phone. 

I kind of feel like I’m going crazy, I’m not sleeping much, my appetite is not what it used to be and I’m losing weight. I still think she’s not being completely honest with me, that she’s hiding something.

Thanks for listening…


----------



## WhiteRaven

Don't prolong your agony. VAR and GPS in the car. ASAP.


----------



## tuborg

Ya, I think it's time I get a VAR. I need to resolve this before I start my new job, it's just eating away at me.

I've been reading some of the threads on here... It's just heart wrenching some people's stories.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I used a cheap GPS tracker to find out where my ex was. It wasn't real-time. It was a cheap one from Brickhouse that activated when the car went into motion, to conserve the batteries. It stored the GPS info, and after a few days I downloaded the data onto my computer. It gave me the info I needed for about 200 bucks. It showed everywhere she went, how fast she drove, etc.

VAR's are great, too.

Put both together, and you will have answers within a week.


----------



## PamJ

The thing is, people who were not the jealous, suspicious type, don't just suddenly become that way. Things feel not quite right, the way they look at you when you ask them a question, the little things like they talk too much, or too little about social events, people etc. Something is telling you something is wrong. 

I wouldn't wait until the end of the month for a phone bill, you should be able to access it anytime. On our Verizon I can see past months bills as well as current usage, with details, phone #s time, length, messages, same thing. I'm the one who set up our account online but I had forgotten at first last year when I saw his ex OW's cell # on his phone that I didn't have to wait for the bill. 

Of course he had told me they talked maybe 8-10 times in a 2 month period. What I found was they had talked and messaged on the phone hundreds of times and then later I found out about the secret aol messaging accounts. Who knows how much, often, long they went on there. There was sexting, I later discovered, even after her husband saw some of the texts and told her to stop. 

I could not wait, it would have driven me crazy.


----------



## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> If you recall my wife received a message from the teacher about an up coming art show. Well, it turns out my wife has an app on her phone that she rarely uses. It logs the last activity time and this can be seen by her contacts. Well I noticed that the last activity was about 3 days before said art show. Coincidence? I don’t know.
> 
> So yesterday, she was feeling a little frisky in the morning, but I didn’t have time… I had to get to work. She does this quite often, knowing that I’ll end up being late, which happens frequently. Anyways, so I noticed about 45 mins after I left she used the app. I called her after work, I had some good news, I got a great new job. I was laid off from a good job 2 years ago, and have been working at a very entry level position in my industry since then. This new position is actually a step up from the last one, so naturally I was excited to tell her. So, I told her I would like to go out on the weekend to celebrate. She sounded excited and happy.
> 
> Turns out she was going for a girls night out. So, out of curiosity I check the app again, she had just used it again. So I’m thinking there is a beginner art class that this guy is teaching right now and the class ends at 8, I’m going to hang out around the school. I borrow a friend’s car and I drive over. I walked by the restaurant that I know they frequent after class, I know it was the right place because I have found receipts in her bag. I found nothing. I couldn’t find her car, but there are a million places to park around there.


What is the name of the app? Does she use an iPhone or an Android-based phone?



tuborg said:


> Afterwards I went for a drink with my friend, he thinks I’m paranoid. Perhaps he’s right. I got home around 10, she came home shortly after. She showered, and we went to sleep. She hasn’t mentioned if she’s going to take up the next level art class, and I’m not going to ask if she is, I will wait for her to tell me. It starts in a couple of weeks.


I'd stop talking to the friend. For all you know, she's confided in him OR she's the one he's been seeing.



tuborg said:


> We haven’t been any less intimate in the past 6 months if that means anything. Maybe I’m paranoid, but I’m very suspicious of her, and I think she senses it.


Eh, doesn't actually mean much. If intimacy had dropped off, however, that would be yet another red flag. And, again, stop talking to your friend; she may "sense" your paranoia because he told her that you're onto her. This may sound far-fetched but hey, if your wife would betray you, why wouldn't your friend?


----------



## weightlifter

Dude do it already. You are TORTURING yourself.


----------



## tuborg

The app is called "Whatsapp" and she uses an iPhone.

You're absolutely right Weightlifer, I am torturing myself. I will go out and buy the VAR today.

Question for those familiar with Dr. Phone: Is it possible for someone to know that their data has been retrieved from the phone? And can it bypass the password on the phone?


----------



## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> The app is called "Whatsapp" and she uses an iPhone.


Oh sh*t. Not good. Not good at all.


----------



## MrHappyHat

tuborg said:


> The app is called "Whatsapp" and she uses an iPhone.



Uh oh, "Whatsapp" and "Snapchat" are the current king and queen of cheater's apps.


----------



## tuborg

That's great... why those apps I wonder?


----------



## vi_bride04

tuborg said:


> That's great... why those apps I wonder?


Activity can't be tracked on the cell phone bill, i.e. no number record of whos calling/texting.


----------



## tuborg

Perfect. 

Does anyone know if I can retrieve these messages with Dr. Phone?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

She can also message people on Skype or Viber. Similar to WhatsApp, you can't track the messages.

VAR is always the winner. For some reason, cheaters never see it coming. Put it under her car seat. Anchor it so it won't roll around.


----------



## tuborg

Yes, I'm definitely going to do the VAR.

I find myself full of rage right now...


----------



## tom67

ThreeStrikes said:


> She can also message people on Skype or Viber. Similar to WhatsApp, you can't track the messages.
> 
> VAR is always the winner. For some reason, cheaters never see it coming. Put it under her car seat. Anchor it so it won't roll around.


VAR asap.:iagree:
Hopefully you get nothingray:


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Velcro the VAR Under her car seat. Check out weightlifter's post on page 2 of your thread. Velcro at my Walmart was in with the sewing crap.

Hide a second one if you know of a frequent spot in the house where she likes to chat on the phone.


----------



## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> Perfect.
> 
> Does anyone know if I can retrieve these messages with Dr. Phone?


Try this app. It appears to have the ability to retrieve deleted WhatsApp messages...

iPhone Backup Extractor for Windows and Mac - Recover your lost data

Not sure if it would be able to get around a passcode though.


----------



## tuborg

Ya, there is a particular place she likes to chat. I will do both today.


----------



## tuborg

Thanks Gus, I'm going to test out both apps on my iPhone. I have it password protect. Will post results.


----------



## Chaparral

Is it not true that if you call the phone and answer it you don't need the passcode to get into it?


----------



## tuborg

Chaparral, I just tried that on my phone. As soon as I hang up it locks again.


----------



## doubletrouble

tuborg said:


> Chaparral, I just tried that on my phone. As soon as I hang up it locks again.


When I had an iPhone, I could be on a call, switch to any other app on the phone (practically) and still not lose the call. If another app is open after the call ends, you don't go right into lockout. 

I also like the idea of looking at the screen to see the smudge marks where the code numbers were punched in. You may not get the sequence right the first time, but with only 4 numbers (what most folks seem to use) it shouldn't take forever.


----------



## PamJ

The VARs (Sony $50 at Best Buy) are simple enough even I could set it up on the right modes and record without a problem. The 2" heavy duty black velcro from
Walmart is great. My FWH never knew I had a VAR in his car. I never did hear any heating on the VAR but that is because I didn't get one until after he said he was done with his XOW, and I guess he meant it. No evidence anywhere any longer, and no more suspicious feelings for me.


----------



## tuborg

I tried opening an app, but the passcode screen came up again. 

The smudges is a good idea though.


----------



## walkonmars

If the smudges aren't clear wipe the screen clean with a soft cloth to remove stray smudges. That should increase the likelihood of success. (worked for me).


----------



## PamJ

My FWH shared this on his FB page today, kind of ironic for him, but so true:https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net...=e5dc185b4b4e4c254e2cc69de9fb449e&oe=53D2B4CA


----------



## happyman64

Tuborg

Trust your gut. Get the vars in her car.

And if you get a hit do not confront.

Just stay cool. Collect evidence. You cal ways gps her car and track her if you feel you need to.

What state are you in?

HM


----------



## tuborg

I got a VAR, but I haven't managed to put it in her car yet. 

I tried using Dr. Phone to retrieve data from my iPhone, but was only able to pull data from my back up. I think I may be able to get a hold of her phone to do the same. I'm just not sure it will let me back the phone up without setting the phone to trust the computer, and I think you need the passcode for that.

I'm sure if I can access the information on her phone I'll find out everything I need to know.


----------



## happyman64

i do believe you need her passcode. Google it to find out.


----------



## happyman64

Then again you could buy her an album of her favorite singer on itunes.

Then have her sync the phone on your pc for it????


----------



## BetrayedDad

If you know her apple id and password (don't need the phone pin) you can add it to your phone and everytime someone sends her an iMessage it will be CC: to your phone and she will never know. 

If you don't know her apple id and password try to trick her into giving it to you. Maybe as happyman suggested say you want to buy her a cd or movie and need the apple id to sync it to her phone.

Google how to do it, it's pretty simple to setup up.


----------



## tuborg

That's very clever happyman.

I just googled it, apparently you can retrieve data from a locked phone with Dr. Phone. I didn't see that option when I tried, I think perhaps I don't have the full version of the app.


----------



## tuborg

Does anyone know if iPhone messages would some how appear on an iPad? 

She has an iPad, and I know it's not password protected, I'm sure she uses it to check emails and watch shows. It's rarely arround, but she does leave it unattended occasionaly.


----------



## dubsey

iMessages will appear, texts will not.


----------



## tuborg

I think she might have whatsapp on it as well.


----------



## weightlifter

Full version yes. unpaid is half featured to get you to buy.


----------



## GusPolinski

BetrayedDad said:


> If you know her apple id and password (don't need the phone pin) you can add it to your phone and everytime someone sends her an iMessage it will be CC: to your phone and she will never know.
> 
> If you don't know her apple id and password try to trick her into giving it to you. Maybe as happyman suggested say you want to buy her a cd or movie and need the apple id to sync it to her phone.
> 
> Google how to do it, it's pretty simple to setup up.


Whoa there! I'd like to point out that, _as soon as you do this_, she'll get a notification on any and all iDevices (iPhone, iPad, MacBook, etc.) on which she currently has iMessage set up. Given this, you'll want to to do this at such a time that you have access to ALL such devices.

Edit: She'll also receive an e-mail notification, so you'll have to be able to intercept this as well. After you delete it, remember to empty it from the "Trash" as well.


----------



## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> Does anyone know if iPhone messages would some how appear on an iPad?
> 
> She has an iPad, and I know it's not password protected, I'm sure she uses it to check emails and watch shows. It's rarely arround, but she does leave it unattended occasionaly.


If she has iMessage set up on it w/ her account then, yes, iMessages will show up. SMS messages sent directly to her phone number, however, will not, and the same limitation exists with you setting up her iMessage account on your iPhone.


----------



## tuborg

Thanks Gus for pointing that out!

If I use Dr. Phone to retrieve her texts is there anyway she could find out?


----------



## GoSoHosed

I have been following this thread to learn of new techniques. I had my ww gmail password and the dumb ass forgot it and made a new one. I wanted to scream it out and even made conversation of the ps name to help her remember. Weightlifter gave me a great one where if you have the gmail password you can look at the google history. worked like a charm until she changed it.
Wiping the phone screen for smudges is my next move. by the way, VAR is the way to go always


----------



## Tobyboy

There was poster in another website that used a small hidden camera to capture his WW entering her passcode. If I remember correctly, he place it up in a light fixture(pointing down) in a place where his WW regularly checked her messages. Worked on the first day he placed it. He also place a VAR in her purse. He cut a small slit in the inside lining and taped it to the inside leather.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GoSoHosed

Tobyboy said:


> There was poster in another website that used a small hidden camera to capture his WW entering her passcode. If I remember correctly, he place it up in a light fixture(pointing down) in a place where his WW regularly checked her messages. Worked on the first day he placed it. He also place a VAR in her purse. He cut a small slit in the inside lining and taped it to the inside leather.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My Hero


----------



## tuborg

That's pretty crafty


----------



## Tobyboy

GoSoHosed said:


> My Hero


He was everybody's hero!! The whole thread was epic!!!


----------



## OnTheRocks

I got my slvt ex's code by catching it over her shoulder one night when we were going to bed.


----------



## tuborg

I've seen her enter a few digits before, but I can't remember them now. The opportunity may come up again.


----------



## GusPolinski

tuborg said:


> Thanks Gus for pointing that out!
> 
> If I use Dr. Phone to retrieve her texts is there anyway she could find out?


I wouldn't think so, as you'd essentially be pulling them from a backup of the phone and not the phone itself... Correct?


----------



## GusPolinski

Tobyboy said:


> There was poster in another website that used a small hidden camera to capture his WW entering her passcode. If I remember correctly, he place it up in a light fixture(pointing down) in a place where his WW regularly checked her messages. Worked on the first day he placed it. He also place a VAR in her purse. He cut a small slit in the inside lining and taped it to the inside leather.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn. That's pretty pro.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

tuborg said:


> I got a VAR, but I haven't managed to put it in her car yet.
> 
> I tried using Dr. Phone to retrieve data from my iPhone, but was only able to pull data from my back up. I think I may be able to get a hold of her phone to do the same. I'm just not sure it will let me back the phone up without setting the phone to trust the computer, and I think you need the passcode for that.
> 
> I'm sure if I can access the information on her phone I'll find out everything I need to know.


No, Tuborg, you are a bad listener, and not very smart with the modern media.

So thread carefully, and follow just the advise. Stop especially your own line of thought.

While snooping, keep an eye on the fact that there is at this moment very little evidence, and only a couple of small red flags.

Not enough to conclude anything, so also have in mind it may be just normal behavior, which is colored by your own imagination to suspicious behavior. Now and then there will be no affair.


----------



## tom67

See_Listen_Love said:


> No, Tuborg, you are a bad listener, and not very smart with the modern media.
> 
> So thread carefully, and follow just the advise. Stop especially your own line of thought.
> 
> While snooping, keep an eye on the fact that there is at this moment very little evidence, and only a couple of small red flags.
> 
> Not enough to conclude anything, so also have in mind it may be just normal behavior, which is colored by your own imagination to suspicious behavior. Now and then there will be no affair.


I would agree with this but she is using n app that deletes history.
Tough call for sure.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

BetrayedDad said:


> If you know her apple id and password (don't need the phone pin) you can add it to your phone and everytime someone sends her an iMessage it will be CC: to your phone and she will never know.
> 
> If you don't know her apple id and password try to trick her into giving it to you. Maybe as happyman suggested say you want to buy her a cd or movie and need the apple id to sync it to her phone.
> 
> Google how to do it, it's pretty simple to setup up.


Do not do this! She will get an email informing her that a device has been added to her apple account. And you do not have access to her email or phone to intercept this message. I almost f--led myself doing this luckily she never saw the email and I deleted it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Forest

Tobyboy said:


> He was everybody's hero!! The whole thread was epic!!!


Remember the guy's handle, or thread title?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Yes Gus just posted this but to reiterate...

If she has an iPad at home, you can turn on her iMessages on that device under Settings. If you do this, her iPhone will get a notification, so you must have the phone with you to clear that notification. And I don't think you can clear notifications if the phone is PIN protected. 

Once the iPad is on You can then watch iMessages come in. You will then want to turn iMessages off just before she comes home. No notification goes out when your turn iMessages off. Delete all conversations before you turn iMessage off. This doesn't affect/delete anything off the phone, just the iPad. But delete first. Once the iMessages are turned off they will still show in the background under the login screen. No notification is sent to the phone when you turn off iMessages on the iPad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GoSoHosed

See_Listen_Love said:


> No, Tuborg, you are a bad listener, and not very smart with the modern media.
> 
> So thread carefully, and follow just the advise. Stop especially your own line of thought.
> 
> While snooping, keep an eye on the fact that there is at this moment very little evidence, and only a couple of small red flags.
> 
> Not enough to conclude anything, so also have in mind it may be just normal behavior, which is colored by your own imagination to suspicious behavior. Now and then there will be no affair.


If you suspect you have a 90% probability your are correct. It may not be as dramatic as your imagination has played out in your head, (_or could be worse_), but something is hitting your gut feeling.


----------



## Tobyboy

Forest said:


> Remember the guy's handle, or thread title?


He's handle was *ChoppingOnions*. 
The thread was in S.I. 
I tried looking for it, but it appears to be gone.


----------



## tuborg

See_Listen_Love said:


> No, Tuborg, you are a bad listener, and not very smart with the modern media.
> 
> So thread carefully, and follow just the advise. Stop especially your own line of thought.
> 
> While snooping, keep an eye on the fact that there is at this moment very little evidence, and only a couple of small red flags.
> 
> Not enough to conclude anything, so also have in mind it may be just normal behavior, which is colored by your own imagination to suspicious behavior. Now and then there will be no affair.


I agree with a lot of this here. I'm not that tech savy, so perhaps I will leave the phone alone. 

I have the VAR in the car now.

There have been other little red flags that I have not metioned, coupled together could be nothing, could be something.

For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool". 

That was a few months ago, I haven't heard any discussion of that nature since I asked her if he had made any advances towards her. 

I will check the VAR in a few days.


----------



## Cubby

tuborg said:


> I agree with a lot of this here. I'm not that tech savy, so perhaps I will leave the phone alone.
> 
> I have the VAR in the car now.
> 
> There have been other little red flags that I have not metioned, coupled together could be nothing, could be something.
> 
> *For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool". *
> 
> That was a few months ago, I haven't heard any discussion of that nature since I asked her if he had made any advances towards her.
> 
> I will check the VAR in a few days.


Another piece of the puzzle is that you know your wife is physically attracted to him. Not only that, but they've gotten to the point where she can talk about sex with him. That's a boundary she's crossed that can lead to more. Call it a gateway boundary. 

At the time she told you about his great body and her performance questions, nothing was going on except flirting. She was intrigued and so excited about him, she couldn't keep her mouth shut because he was always on her mind. But now, since it's crossed over into cheating, she has to keep it secret from you.


----------



## tuborg

That conversation seemed very inappropriate to me. Warning bells were ringing in my ears. I acted like it didn't bother me at all. It was if she was trying to see if she would get a rise out of me. 

This was a few months ago now. I should have done more to figure out what was going on then. Now I get little tid bits, every couple of weeks. Nothing like that conversation though.


----------



## Thound

tuborg said:


> That conversation seemed very inappropriate to me. Warning bells were ringing in my ears. I acted like it didn't bother me at all. It was if she was trying to see if she would get a rise out of me.
> 
> This was a few months ago now. I should have done more to figure out what was going on then. Now I get little tid bits, every couple of weeks. Nothing like that conversation though.


Let me restate this again, do NOT act suspicous
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tuborg

I have not brought up the teacher since I asked if he made advances towards her a few months ago. When she does bring him up I do not ask questions, I only listen. 

I won't be able to forgive her if she is stepping out.


----------



## Tobyboy

Cubby said:


> Another piece of the puzzle is that you know your wife is physically attracted to him. Not only that, but they've gotten to the point where she can talk about sex with him. That's a boundary she's crossed that can lead to more. Call it a gateway boundary.
> 
> At the time she told you about his great body and her performance questions, nothing was going on except flirting. She was intrigued and so excited about him, she couldn't keep her mouth shut because he was always on her mind. But now, since it's crossed over into cheating, she has to keep it secret from you.


This right here^^^^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tuborg

Doesn't look good... does it...

Feeling pretty horrible.


----------



## NextTimeAround

I once used some software that kept track of all keystrokes made on the computer on which it was installed. I would imagine some form of that software must still be around.

Tuborg, do you and your wife sometimes use the same computer. If not, would you ever have a chance to install it on her computer?


----------



## tuborg

I have installed a keylogger on my computer. She sometimes uses it when she forgets her laptop at work, but rarely. This was the first thing I did.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tuborg said:


> Doesn't look good... does it...
> 
> Feeling pretty horrible.



I didn't have much to go on either when I discovered my H was involved with a girl from work. All I had was a comment he made to someone else in ear shot of me saying "there are two girls at work who think I hung the moon"... my radar went "ding." 

and the rest is history...

wishing you the best


----------



## Graywolf2

Cubby said:


> Another piece of the puzzle is that you know your wife is physically attracted to him. Not only that, but they've gotten to the point where she can talk about sex with him. That's a boundary she's crossed that can lead to more. Call it a gateway boundary.
> 
> At the time she told you about his great body and her performance questions, nothing was going on except flirting. She was intrigued and so excited about him, she couldn't keep her mouth shut because he was always on her mind. But now, since it's crossed over into cheating, she has to keep it secret from you.


:iagree:

The above is spot on and I can only suggest small modifications. 

1.	If she has no contact with him because the class ended that might be why she stopped talking about him. There were no more daily stories to tell you.

2.	The reason she could talk openly about him to you was that the idea of an affair was ridiculous. She might not be having an affair but the idea is no longer ridiculous.


----------



## tuborg

Wife cancelled our plans to have dinner alone tonight to celebrate my new job. She'd rather we go out for dinner with some friends. She sounds very distant. 

Not feeling good.


----------



## betrayed2013

since i dont beleive for a second thats shes out with friends, have her send a pic of herself with a friend later on....say that u need it for some reason. Guaranteed u dont get the pic.


----------



## 3putt

betrayed2013 said:


> since i dont beleive for a second thats shes out with friends, have her send a pic of herself with a friend later on....say that u need it for some reason. Guaranteed u dont get the pic.


With all due respect, if he does this then HER radar goes off and she goes even deeper to hide things.


----------



## Chaparral

tuborg said:


> Wife cancelled our plans to have dinner alone tonight to celebrate my new job. She'd rather we go out for dinner with some friends. She sounds very distant.
> 
> Not feeling good.


Ask her why she changed your plans in person, then watch closely for the southside shuffle. Her body language may tell you more than her mouth.

Do you often have date night s alone, if not why not?


----------



## tuborg

Yes, pretty much we go out alone every Friday. 

We made these plans days ago.


----------



## Noble1

See who she wants at this dinner or who 'happens' to drop by???


----------



## PhillyGuy13

tuborg said:


> Wife cancelled our plans to have dinner alone tonight to celebrate my new job. She'd rather we go out for dinner with some friends. She sounds very distant.
> 
> Not feeling good.


That's bull$hit. Even if she wasn't possibly in an affair, she cancels a celebratory dinner with you to go out with friends! I'd be livid. Follow her. Rent a car so she won't recognize you. Weekend rentals are $20 a day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

tuborg said:


> For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool".


This ain't a little red flag. It's a Chi-Com banner. She's confessing to you, in her mind, that's she's going for the gold. She's basically giving you a Sh!t Test, "stop me, before I kill." You kept cool about this and acted like it flew by you, which sounds okay at first. But it was the wrong response. The right response would have been a very cool calm half-amused "you ever talk to him or any another man like that again and you'll be out on your ass." Delivered with a relaxed self-assured smile.



Cubby said:


> Another piece of the puzzle is that you know your wife is physically attracted to him. Not only that, but they've gotten to the point where she can talk about sex with him. That's a boundary she's crossed that can lead to more. Call it a gateway boundary.
> 
> At the time she told you about his great body and her performance questions, nothing was going on except flirting. She was intrigued and so excited about him, she couldn't keep her mouth shut because he was always on her mind. But now, since it's crossed over into cheating, she has to keep it secret from you.


To her, this conversation without a consequence from the H was most likely either the imaginary green light for her to proceed, or else it was the veiled confession that most WWs seem to need in order for their "rationalization hamster" to spin up the big OK to carry on.



tuborg said:


> Wife cancelled our plans to have dinner alone tonight to celebrate my new job. She'd rather we go out for dinner with some friends. She sounds very distant.


Wait, she's going out with friends or she wants you both to got out with friends in the same group?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Oh wait can you clarify- she is going out with friends or both of you are going out with friends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## betrayed2013

betrayed2013 said:


> since i dont beleive for a second thats shes out with friends, have her send a pic of herself with a friend later on....say that u need it for some reason. Guaranteed u dont get the pic.


my apoligies....i read the dinner thing wrong. U guys are all going out.


----------



## BashfulB

tuborg said:


> Yes, pretty much we go out alone every Friday.
> 
> We made these plans days ago.


Follow her.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

betrayed2013 said:


> my apoligies....i read the dinner thing wrong. U guys are all going out.


I misread it too. I think. Not sure lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tuborg

We're both going out, but it sounded like she wanted to go alone. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

I think I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. We had made plans to go this really nice restaurant she has wanted to go to for a while, so I was a little caught of guard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

I can not emphasize enough. If you hear her start to get busy with another man STOP listening and have a trusted friend do it foryou giving a high level heads up of what happened. 

Failing having a trusted friend i have done var work for about ten people here including 3sex vars providing overview or transcript. no i dont get off on it.

Tuborg. Its bad but ive seen more hopeless. Steel yourself tho. If she asks why you act funny. Tell her stomach bug.


----------



## walkonmars

tuborg said:


> For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool".





Machiavelli said:


> ... You kept cool about this and acted like it flew by you, which sounds okay at first. But it was the wrong response. *The right response would have been a very cool calm half-amused "you ever talk to him or any another man like that again and you'll be out on your ass."* Delivered with a relaxed self-assured smile.


Yup... tuborg, do you have it in you to have delivered this response? You need to be able to do it and mean it. 



.


----------



## Machiavelli

tuborg said:


> We're both going out, but it sounded like she wanted to go alone. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
> 
> I think I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. We had made plans to go this really nice restaurant she has wanted to go to for a while, so I was a little caught of guard.


Whatever you do, overcome your concerns and act completely relaxed and at ease when you are out. Don't act pissed about not being alone; specifically compliment your wife on her excellent suggestion to include more people "to help you celebrate your triumph." Got it? Coolly check out other women and do most of your conversing and victory posing to the others of the party, interact equally with all other women in your party, but shut out your wife, other than to acknowledge direct comments made directly to you. Leave general comments she makes for someone else to respond to.

Who has the higher sex rank, you or your wife? Do women come on to you?


----------



## betrayed2013

walkonmars said:


> Yup... tuborg, do you have it in you to have delivered this response? You need to be able to do it and mean it.
> 
> 
> 
> .


idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.


----------



## Machiavelli

betrayed2013 said:


> idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.


Did you kill him?


----------



## the guy

tuborg said:


> We're both going out, but it sounded like she wanted to go alone. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
> 
> I think I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. We had made plans to go this really nice restaurant she has wanted to go to for a while, so I was a little caught of guard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She never wanted to go...she just didn't want to hear your crap until the last minute.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Machiavelli said:


> Did you kill him?


I've heard were some AP wish they were dead once the betrayed got done phucking up there life and letting them have their waywards...LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

betrayed2013 said:


> idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.


Don't say things you aren't willing to follow up with. 
Lesson learned.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

betrayed2013 said:


> idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.


It's all about believability.


----------



## Machiavelli

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It's all about believability.


Never make threats you aren't prepared to follow through with.


----------



## GusPolinski

Machiavelli said:


> Never make threats you aren't prepared to follow through with.


Mach! Ah aaah! He'll save every one of us!

Flash - Queen (Official Music Video) - YouTube


----------



## The Middleman

tuborg said:


> Wife cancelled our plans to have dinner alone tonight to celebrate my new job. She'd rather we go out for dinner with some friends. She sounds very distant.
> 
> 
> 
> Not feeling good.


Follow her


----------



## tom67

The Middleman said:


> Follow her


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## MEM2020

Tuborg,
The proper response to her in that situation is this:

-------
Almost any man would perceive comments about his 'great body and how does it perform in the sack' as an expression of sexual interest. 

Why are you saying these types of things to him? Do you want him to make a pass at you? 

After she responds.

Are you and he texting or emailing each other stuff? If so, what's the tone? 

I don't like what's happening here.
-------

This is standard boundary enforcement. Because she is testing YOUR boundaries by saying this stuff to you. 





tuborg said:


> I agree with a lot of this here. I'm not that tech savy, so perhaps I will leave the phone alone.
> 
> I have the VAR in the car now.
> 
> There have been other little red flags that I have not metioned, coupled together could be nothing, could be something.
> 
> For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool".
> 
> That was a few months ago, I haven't heard any discussion of that nature since I asked her if he had made any advances towards her.
> 
> I will check the VAR in a few days.


----------



## MEM2020

Betrayed,
This is what she heard: I am not holding you responsible for keeping your vows. Instead I will blame the random third party you choose to bang. And after I kill him and am imprisoned you will be free to bang anyone you like. 

Lame, weak and ineffective. M


QUOTE=betrayed2013;8424105]idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.[/QUOTE]


----------



## See_Listen_Love

tuborg said:


> I agree with a lot of this here. I'm not that tech savy, so perhaps I will leave the phone alone.
> 
> I have the VAR in the car now.
> 
> There have been other little red flags that I have not metioned, coupled together could be nothing, could be something.
> 
> For instance she told me she asked him jokingly how he maintains such a great body, and how he performs in the sack. She thinks he's "cool".
> 
> That was a few months ago, I haven't heard any discussion of that nature since I asked her if he had made any advances towards her.
> 
> I will check the VAR in a few days.


That is a red flag, it a stimulating exchange between them. It will have aroused them both, hormones will have given a happy feeling. Quite easy to get addicted to.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

betrayed2013 said:


> since i dont beleive for a second thats shes out with friends, have her send a pic of herself with a friend later on....say that u need it for some reason. Guaranteed u dont get the pic.


Avoid all signs of monitoring please, she has been noting the attention to the teacher a couple of months ago. A second thing would make her clear that you are on to her.


----------



## NextTimeAround

betrayed2013 said:


> idk if that will work or not. I once told my stbxw that if she cheats again i will literally kill the guy that she does it with and at the time i really delivered it with emotion. Didnt stop her at all.


You would be better off making vague threats, leaving your partner wondering how bad can it be. 

I hear all the time people talking with bravado about how they will kill someone or a leas beat them up if something happens, it sounds so desperate.

And unless you live in Texas, you will most likely find yourself in jail.


----------



## Forest

NextTimeAround said:


> You would be better off making vague threats, leaving your partner wondering how bad can it be.
> 
> .


Something along the lines of "I don't think I would like that..." while you are tearing a bedsheet into long strips, and cackling strangely.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

:rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

PhillyGuy13 said:


> That's bull$hit. Even if she wasn't possibly in an affair, she cancels a celebratory dinner with you to go out with friends! I'd be livid. Follow her. Rent a car so she won't recognize you. Weekend rentals are $20 a day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Am I reading this wrong? I read that the husband is included not replaced for the evening.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Chaparral said:


> Am I reading this wrong? I read that the husband is included not replaced for the evening.


Chap, I think I misread it at first, but it appears they all went out as a group.

Still kinda Sh!tty, but less so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

How often does she change date night?

Maybe this is stressing you out and she is feeling it. Maybe she thought a night with a stressed out husband was too much.

Hopefully you followed Mach's advice and turned on the charm. Hope you have a report of wifely jealousy to report.

If she acts jealous. Tell her the ladies asked her how you stay in such good shape, if you are a good lay, how is your marriage, etc.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> Am I reading this wrong? I read that the husband is included not replaced for the evening.


You read it right, he also clarified it later.



tuborg said:


> We're both going out, but it sounded like she wanted to go alone. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
> 
> I think I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. We had made plans to go this really nice restaurant she has wanted to go to for a while, so I was a little caught of guard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tuborg

So we went out Friday night, had a great time. Weekend was a blast as well.

A couple of things to mention. I got a hold of her phone, but couldn’t use Dr. Phone to retrieve any data as the phone hasn’t trusted my computer. Also, I noticed that she hasn’t used Whatsapp since last Tuesday, but… She did mention possibly going out this Tuesday with some friends. I have a funny feeling she will use the chat app again this Tuesday. Still haven’t checked the VAR, will wait till Wednesday or so. 

She hasn’t mentioned the teacher at all, but I did manage to track him down on facebook. Turns out he isn’t married, but engaged. 

At the time she mentioned how cool he is and how great his body is, I was a little taken aback because I have never heard talk this way about another man before. I have no problem telling her that if that type of conversation happens again, she can hit the road. For now I will do nothing, and just observe.


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## tom67

tuborg said:


> So we went out Friday night, had a great time. Weekend was a blast as well.
> 
> A couple of things to mention. I got a hold of her phone, but couldn’t use Dr. Phone to retrieve any data as the phone hasn’t trusted my computer. Also, I noticed that she hasn’t used Whatsapp since last Tuesday, but… She did mention possibly going out this Tuesday with some friends. I have a funny feeling she will use the chat app again this Tuesday. Still haven’t checked the VAR, will wait till Wednesday or so.
> 
> She hasn’t mentioned the teacher at all, but I did manage to track him down on facebook. Turns out he isn’t married, but engaged.
> 
> At the time she mentioned how cool he is and how great his body is, I was a little taken aback because I have never heard talk this way about another man before. I have no problem telling her that if that type of conversation happens again, she can hit the road. For now I will do nothing, and just observe.


Yes she brings it up again you tell her cool and no emotion.
Stay stealthy.


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## happyman64

Why not track her on Tuesday night and have someone check on her that she does not know???

And definitely check the var after Wednesday so you can listen to all her conversations on her ride into work and her ride ...


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## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Why not track her on Tuesday night and have someone check on her that she does not know???
> 
> And definitely check the var after Wednesday so you can listen to all her conversations on her ride into work and her ride ...


Like Reagan said.
Trust but verify.


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## tuborg

Unfortunately, I do not have anyone that can track her for me right now. I'm keeping this to myself for the time being. I could follow her myself, but I risk being seen, don't know how I'd talk my way out of that one.

I could hangout by the school, before the last class finishes. That would be easy for me to do without being spotted, and if she's going to meet up with the teacher then she will be there.


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## See_Listen_Love

At all cost avoid risk of her getting on to you. If she does, and there is an affair, you will have much more trouble finding out what really happens than if you have devastating evidence. Also the possibility of deeper layers of keeping in contact even after confrontation and reconciliation get more probable.


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## PhillyGuy13

VAR In the car. If you haven't checked it recently do so, and make sure the battery is OK. You know she is going out tonight. 

If you need to, rent a car when you follow her. She won't recognize the car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

tuborg said:


> Unfortunately, I do not have anyone that can track her for me right now. I'm keeping this to myself for the time being. I could follow her myself, but I risk being seen, don't know how I'd talk my way out of that one.


I'm think you really need to do this. Take the risk and be careful not to get caught. Even if you do get caught, just be honest (and firm): Something didn't feel right to you and you were just checking things out. If she gives you the inevitable controlling or trust comments just say,"I'd rather be safe than sorry" in a very aloof manner. You can't show her that those statements have power over you. Don't let fear rule you; and your above statement shows that you are scared. All the 'James Bond' $hit like VARs and other devices are all well and good, but it takes too long. She could be doing the dirty deed a dozen times before you get any real info. You need to check it out yourself.


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## Blossom Leigh

The Middleman said:


> I'm think you really need to do this. Take the risk and be careful not to get caught. Even if you do get caught, just be honest (and firm): Something didn't feel right to you and you were just checking things out. If she gives you the inevitable controlling or trust comments just say,"I'd rather be safe than sorry" in a very aloof manner. You can't show her that those statements have power over you. Don't let fear rule you; and your above statement shows that you are scared. All the 'James Bond' $hit like VARs and other devices are all well and good, but it takes too long. She could be doing the dirty deed a dozen times before you get any real info. You need to check it out yourself.


Agree...


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## tuborg

I think I could park in a parking lot close to her work that she passes and follow her from there, but I think there is a good chance she will notice. I suspect that if there is an OM, I’m almost 100% certain it is the teacher and she would be meeting him at the school when class finishes. I think it would be better for me to park outside the school and wait.

I’ve been checking whatsapp periodically throughout the day to see if she has used it, no activity as of yet. Let’s say she does show up at the school and I see them together, should I confront on the spot? She would be caught red handed with no way of denying anything. 

Also, I’m trying to find out who the teacher is engaged to, as it’s not posted on his facebook. I think it would be good to know in case something is going on, I can tell the fiancé about it.


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## WhiteRaven

Can you hire a PI?


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## convert

maybe rent-a-car if you think she might see or recognize your car


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## PhillyGuy13

Are you sure he even has a girlfriend or fiancé, or was this something your wife told you, to put you at ease?

Rent. A. Car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT?

If you are confident the art teacher is the POSOM, then just follow him after his class and see if he leads you to her. This helps you avoid your wife recognizing your car. I am assuming the POSOM wouldn't know your car?

As for tracking down his fiancé, did you google his name and engagement? Might be posted on a local paper website etc. you could also try to see if you can get it by visiting his Facebook page and poking around. You definitely want this info on hand, so you can swiftly blow up his world.


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## tuborg

I don't have the money right now to hire a PI. I will once I start my new job. I'm looking into renting a car now.

She told me he's married, his facebook says engaged.


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## PhillyGuy13

Then she told you he was married, to put you at ease. 

Following him isn't a bad idea, except if it's not him and it's actually another guy (a classmate?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

don't confront until you get the intel on the OM fianace'....confront after you expose this...you'll have a better chance of pulling her out of the affair fog when the OM throws your old lady under the bus to save his own @ss.

I do how ever would recommend confronting if you see them checking into a motel.

At the very least if you catch them hugging and kissing you can now say you have the smoking gun to make a plan and work the plan.

If you do witness something so painful you might want to step back and regroup.....again once its verified you now have the smoking gun that will dictate your next course of action.

Right now we all assuming she is cheating, but if she is then you have alot of work to do in preparing for a more effective confrontation. one that will sting a lot worse then a jealous husband making a seen on the OM ground.

In short confront on your term and on your ground.

Thats my $0.02


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## kenmoore14217

tuborg said:


> I don't have the money right now to hire a PI. I will once I start my new job. I'm looking into renting a car now.
> 
> She told me he's married, his facebook says engaged.


She told you that to disarm you. Logic being that she won't eff around with a married dude.


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## tuborg

I think following the teacher is probably the best way to go. He doesn't know what I look like nor the car I drive.

I suspect that whatever happens... God I hate thinking about this. Whatever happens, happens at the school. They have a 2 hour window to do whatever that is. Not very much time to go anywhere, BUT I know he lives close to the school. He is the owner of the school, so I'm sure after all classes clear out they would have the place to themselves. 

I feel sick...

I don't believe it's a classmate, everything tells me it's this guy.

I've googled his name + engagement and found nothing. I've poked around his facebook for hours and found nothing. I'm sure there is a way I can track down who his fiance is, I just haven't figured it out yet.


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## tom67

I hope she is just out with the girls on Tuesday. Good luck.


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## See_Listen_Love

I guess doing something is good for you, so like some said: rent a car

But wear glasses, a scarf, a baseball cap, and keep a low profile. Have a map at and to add a reason to be there and keep even more concealed behind it if necessary?


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## CASE_Sensitive

tuborg said:


> I think following the teacher is probably the best way to go. He doesn't know what I look like nor the car I drive.
> 
> I suspect that whatever happens... God I hate thinking about this. Whatever happens, happens at the school. They have a 2 hour window to do whatever that is. Not very much time to go anywhere, BUT I know he lives close to the school. He is the owner of the school, so I'm sure after all classes clear out they would have the place to themselves.
> 
> I feel sick...
> 
> I don't believe it's a classmate, everything tells me it's this guy.
> 
> I've googled his name + engagement and found nothing. I've poked around his facebook for hours and found nothing. I'm sure there is a way I can track down who his fiance is, I just haven't figured it out yet.


Following the teacher may get you caught by your wife if all your attention is focused on him.


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## Racer

It’s a bit out there, but another… You have a smart phone yes? I know there are apps that can track its location and store it. “Accidentally” leave it in her car. Then review later where your phone went. You can also set it to record conversations (there must be an app for that too). It’s a poor boy spy tool. Even if she finds it, thank her because you couldn’t find it and wondered if you dropped in her car helping “unloading groceries” (or whatever reason you might have for getting in her car)… Just set it to silent, no vibe, and the screen to power saver so it doesn’t light up. I’ve heard of betrayed buying a new cellphone and loading it up with all sorts of apps and sticking it in the car; A lot even have convenience power jacks in places like the cubbies in the back of a SUV….

Also, instead of renting, talk to a friend and swap cars for the day. Bring a camera or camcorder to gather evidence. Don’t bring any weapons, duct tape, lime and a shovel; Stalker laws are nasty where it just has to look like you might be up to no good. And don’t expect to find anything. More often than not, my SA-WW wasn’t doing anything wrong. So look for those days when there’s something like a girl’s night or she’s working late that isn’t part of a normal routine.


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## Blossom Leigh

If this was my operation... for lack of a better term... I would...

1. Rent a car
2. disguise myself
3. follow her
4. have fiancee info ahead of time
5. do not confront, photograph instead if possible
6. retreat to get emotions under control first... THEN decide course of action, possibly even to the point of staying at someone elses house OR take sleeping pills so that your emotions are not seen by her until YOU have had time to think and plan.

The day I discovered mutual texts and mutual pic exchange between my H and his AP, I "went to my barn to feed my horses," told him I was just not feeling well when he asked what was wrong with me... then I went to a girl friends house to vent my emotions before confronting him.... went home and confronted and he spilled the beans..


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## the guy

At the and that if this does turn bad you now have the proof to make a plan and work the plan. 

Do not act with out thinking everything through. What ever you find you have to take the time and have a rational thought on what you need to do next.


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## the guy

The thing is if you go off in public and act like a mad man it just justifies the affair by making you out to be the bad husband that is uncontrolable.

Don't give her any ammo on why she is doing what she is doing. Think rationally and make a plan that will work best for you in the long run....


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## the guy

BTW if your going to stake out a school don't for get to bring a note book and a text book. With out one you will look suspicious to other students.

grab one of her old art books to carry with you.


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## Blossom Leigh

the guy said:


> The thing is if you go off in public and act like a mad man it just justifies the affair by making you out to be the bad husband that is uncontrolable.
> 
> Don't give her any ammo on why she is doing what she is doing. Think rationally and make a plan that will work best for you in the long run....



This is so true not to mention the risk of escalation of someone throwing punches and getting you arrested.... you HAVE to retreat first... Protect YOUR OWN PERSONAL RECORD... avoid any escalation.


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## badbane

if you can get find my friends installed on her phone you can one way track her with that. but it is only realtime but it is free. you just need time with her phone and yours. install the app on both phones invite yourself to be permanently allowed to see her location on your phone and then give it back. Sticking the app in a rarely used folder will keep the app hidden well enough.


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## LongWalk

VAR is best.


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## tuborg

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, I have an old smartphone lying around, I could put GPS tracking on it and put it in her car. 

I've rented a car. I feel really anxious.


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## the guy

don't forget the baseball capand sun glasses


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## CASE_Sensitive

tuborg said:


> I don't know why I didn't think of this before, I have an old smartphone lying around, I could put GPS tracking on it and put it in her car.
> 
> I've rented a car. I feel really anxious.


A dying battery in the phone might trigger an alarm


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## Forest

the guy said:


> don't forget the baseball capand sun glasses


And a newspaper.


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## Blossom Leigh

Y'all have been on my mind... hoping for the best..


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## The Middleman

Any update?


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## doubletrouble

Praying we're all off base here. 

More often than not, we aren't off base. But at this point I still have a smidgen of hope for you, OP.


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## The Middleman

For some reason, I think his following her led to a really ugly discovery ... I hope I'm wrong.

Still, doing that was the right thing to do.


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## tom67

The Middleman said:


> For some reason, I think his following her led to a really ugly discovery ... I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> Still, doing that was the right thing to do.


:iagree::iagree:
Hope he is alright also.


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## Blossom Leigh

Yea, I've been worried about the same thing... that the worst was discovered in the silence here...


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## tuborg

Update:

So I went to the school, I didn’t see my wife, I did see the art teacher but decided not to follow him. When I got home my wife was already home. I pulled the VAR, I didn’t find anything. 

However… I’ve continued to monitor Whatsapp to track her activity, she hasn’t used it for two weeks. The last time was on a Tuesday. Now today is Teusday, and it just so happens the next level class starts today, guess who logs into Whatsapp this morning…

She must only speak to one person on this app, because she rarely uses it. I haven’t spoken with her since this morning, nor has she mentioned anything about taking the next level class. I’m going to call her shortly to see if she’d like to eat out this evening. 

I was pretty certain nothing was going on, that’s why I haven’t posted anything recently, but now I’m not so sure.


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## naiveonedave

I hope I am wrong, but I wonder if your W thought you were snooping and went dark for a bit? Keep surveillence up for awhile longer. Maybe trail her again tonight?


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## Blossom Leigh

tuborg said:


> Update:
> 
> So I went to the school, I didn’t see my wife


Where was she? Already home? Something sounds very odd...

Did y'all talk about where she had been or if she had had class?

I would GPS her car somehow... if she is texting in the car it's not going to show up on VAR... only if he joins her in her car.. 

has she been "sweaty" these past couple of weeks?


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## tuborg

She said she had dinner with some friends. I believe her. She hasn't been "sweaty" the last couple of weeks.

Last weekend she bought us tickets to a play, took me out for dinner, and bought me a book. It kind of makes me think that she may be compensating. 

This Whatsapp activity is very peculiar to me. She obviously only uses it to communicate with one person. Why not use reguarl text?

Still haven't called her yet, will shortly. I'm sure that will shed some light on things.


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## bandit.45

Trust your gut, not your heart. 

If deep down you feel something is amiss, then it probably is. Keep digging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naiveonedave

don't ask about whatsapp. You need to monitor this without letting her know you are. You are giving away too much and letting her know you are looking. You won't find anything that way.


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## tuborg

I've never mentioned the app to her. Nor have I mentioned the teacher or asked her whether she plans on taking the next course. I don't believe I have acted suspicous at all recently.


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## weightlifter

What dave said above.

DONT


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## Squeakr

tuborg said:


> This Whatsapp activity is very peculiar to me. She obviously only uses it to communicate with one person. Why not use reguarl text?


More than likely as regular text is traceable. It shows up on a phone bill generally, dependent on the carrier (as some don't collect that information). Also regular text can cost between countries and may be limited depending on the plan the person has (I used to not have text as I could do everything with data, IM through data, and email), whereas WhatApp allows between countries without charges.


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## weightlifter

tuborg said:


> Update:
> 
> So I went to the school, I didn’t see my wife, I did see the art teacher but decided not to follow him. When I got home my wife was already home. I pulled the VAR, I didn’t find anything.
> 
> However… I’ve continued to monitor Whatsapp to track her activity, she hasn’t used it for two weeks. The last time was on a Tuesday. Now today is Teusday, and it just so happens the next level class starts today, guess who logs into Whatsapp this morning…
> 
> She must only speak to one person on this app, because she rarely uses it. I haven’t spoken with her since this morning, nor has she mentioned anything about taking the next level class. I’m going to call her shortly to see if she’d like to eat out this evening.
> 
> I was pretty certain nothing was going on, that’s why I haven’t posted anything recently, but now I’m not so sure.


She is and you will find out soon what if you keep your MOUTH SHUT and your EYES OPEN.


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## Chaparral

Have you been keeping an eye on her underwear drawer to see if sha has bought any new sexy panties she doesn't wear around you?


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## tuborg

I haven't seen her wear anything new, but I haven't checked either.


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## Blossom Leigh

She was out with friends? What she supposed to be at class but changed at the last minute without telling you? and then was already home?

Sorry... but when I go out with my female cousins to catch up, we are four hours later getting home...

That sounds like a lie to me Darlin' unless they hit fast food. Even fast food for us is not home early. 

She knows you are looking...

AND yes, she could be compensating... my H did that to me... to throw me off the trail.


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## Blossom Leigh

It sounds like y'all live very separate lives... not "prying" into the affairs of the other... there is a healthy prying that serves to protect the relationship. It is ok to ask the right questions. Not asking at all is almost as bad or worse than asking with the wrong intent.


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## Machiavelli

If she cut class to go out with friends, you've been barking up the wrong tree. This is why investigators get into trouble when they get tunnel vision on the "usual suspects." Start broadening your pool of suspects.


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## Chaparral

Classmates, including women are even more likely than a teacher.

Why haven't you put a gps in her car?

How do you know she was even with who she said she was and for how long?


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## anchorwatch

A marriage is in a sad state, when you don't trust your partner.

Do you have access to her phone? 

If you do you, you might be able to restore deleted text messages.

WhatsApp FAQ - I accidentally deleted my chats! Can I get my messages back?

BTW, this wasn't hard to find...


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## BobSimmons

This I can't understand
Man mistrusts wife. Wife's mode of transport is car. Man doesn't know where wife is. Man wants to follow her but is afraid he'll get noticed.

.... why doesn't man put a GPS tracker in wife's car. Because with a GPS you can do that silly thing called....tracking where your wife is going...

just saying


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## DoktorFun

Why haven't you put a gps in her car?


Why haven't you put a gps in her car?


Why haven't you put a gps in her car?




*Why haven't you put a gps in her car?*

:scratchhead:

Do it, please.


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## weightlifter

cough good gps is ezoom.

Used by a couple people here with top results and available at radio shack so you can buy it for cash.


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## Machiavelli

Kind of reminds me of watching a scary movie at the dollar theater.

DON'T GO IN THAT ROOM!!

TELL ME SHE DIDN'T JUST DO THAT!!

HE STILL HASN'T GPSed THAT CAR!!


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## GusPolinski

DoktorFun said:


> Why haven't you put a gps in her car?
> 
> 
> Why haven't you put a gps in her car?
> 
> 
> Why haven't you put a gps in her car?
> 
> 
> *Why haven't you put a gps in her car?*
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> Do it, please.


I can't _quite_ put my finger on it, but I feel like there's a hidden message somewhere in here...


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## bandit.45

Maybe he doesn't want to GPS the car. 

Maybe he's scared of what he would discover.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobyboy

tuborg said:


> I don't know why I didn't think of this before, I have an old smartphone lying around, I could put GPS tracking on it and put it in her car.
> 
> I've rented a car. I feel really anxious.


He might be tracking already !!^^^^


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## MrHappyHat

He's got his head screwed on tight and he's moving in the right direction. This is a safe place for him. Please don't beat up on him.


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## phillybeffandswiss

MrHappyHat said:


> He's got his head screwed on tight and he's moving in the right direction. This is a safe place for him. Please don't beat up on him.


I disagree, he isn't getting beat up. He is also backsliding a bit into doubting himself. He has just hit the excuse phase.


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## The Middleman

Another AWOL OP. I wonder what he found when he followed her?


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## happi_g_more2

The Middleman said:


> Another AWOL OP. I wonder what he found when he followed her?


seriously - drives me nuts. Its so helpful to the board to see what the end result was. This could be a classic red herring....or a devastating story


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