# It's been so long it's awkward.



## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

My wife and I have been married for 7 years now. The frequency of sex had been gradually declining over a two year period starting about 4 years ago. Once a week became twice a month became once every three months etc, etc. 

In August of 2015 we were thrilled to find out she was pregnant, unfortunately at her 6 week check up the doctor was unable to find a heartbeat and determined that she had miscarried. She had to take medication that flushed everything out while I sat with her through a night of agony. Needless to say, after an experience like that, sex was a touchy subject. About 5 months later we agreed we were both ready to start trying again and the sex resumed with determination to have a baby. While I was very happy to be having sex again what made it strange was my wife's tracking of her ovulation cycles. I understand the need to for this as you want to have sex on the days of the month when the woman is most fertile if pregnancy is the goal. The down side to this is that she was completely unwilling to have sex on days other than the "ideal days". I don't claim to be an expert on female anatomy or reproductive science but my thinking was "If we want to have a baby, shouldn't we have sex as often as possible?" My wife said this was not the case as having sex too often, especially during the days she may not be as fertile could reduce the chance of her getting pregnant, even if we did have sex during the most fertile days. I didn't bother o research it further because I knew even if she was wrong, it wouldn't change her opinion and I was just thankful to be having sex again, even if it was only for a 3-5 day period each month. Anyway, good news was soon to follow as in March of 2016 multiple pregnancy tests showed the blue line. Our joy and happiness was shadowed with fear and caution. We both knew that after having seen what happened with the last pregnancy, we wouldn't fully relax until a healthy baby was born. Little did I know at the time that this event in March of 2016 would mark the end of my sex life for the foreseeable future.

Now that my wife was pregnant, sex was off the table. When I would bring it up she would say she didn't want to take and risks. I did a little research and from what I read it seemed that there was very little relation between sex in early stages of pregnancy and miscarriage. My wife was not willing to budge and would get irritated when I brought it up, making me feel like I was asking her to risk the life of our child for sex.

In November 2017, she gave birth to a healthy 7 pound 6 ounce baby boy. Due to some complications with her not dilating fully, after about 35 hours of labor, the doctors decided a c-section was necessary. Everything went well but the recovery time required is greater and I knew my wife would need time. The joy and happiness of being a new father helped me forget the lack of sex for a while. The trials and tribulations of being a new parent don't exactly lend themselves to a romantic and spontaneous sex life for the new parents. Sleepless nights, constant exhaustion, redefining household roles, etc. once we settled into a bit of a groove as new parents I brought up the topic of us having sex. Mind you, at this point it had been about 5 months since my wife had her c-section and about 13 months since we last had sex. I didn't just get a "no" but I also got a "I'd think you should be more focused on helping me with the baby and things around the house than thinking about sex." I tried to explain to my wife that I was ready and willing to do whatever she or the baby needed first as priority one, but I felt like our sex life was being neglected. She made me feel like some sort of monster for even suggesting such a thing. She also mentioned that even if she would consider it, she'd feel super uncomfortable having sex in the same room as our sleeping baby. After this I somewhat gave up and decided to give her all the space she needed/wanted sexually. I would not bring it up, I would not try to initiate, I would act like sex between a husband and wife isn't a thing. I decided this with the idea that when she's ready, when she's in the mood, she will bring up the idea or she will initiate. 

This brings us to today. It is now October of 2017 and I have not had sex with my wife in 18 months. Not only that but since I decided never to bring it up or mention it, there has not been one mention of sex from her. Besides sex, I feel things are going okay. The baby is doing well and we're both becoming better and better parents each day but I'm starting to fear the kind of husband and wife we're becoming. It's almost like were becoming best friend roommates. The lack of sex has certainly had an effect on intimacy in general. When we watch TV, one of us will sit with the baby in the couch while the other sits in the chair. We used to sit close together on the couch. The only kissing that happens is a quick peck on the lips when going to bed and leaving for work. That's my sex life now, two pecks on the lips or cheek a day.

As our son grew, my wife was reluctant to have him not sleep in our room with us. We have a very nice crib for him but it won't fit in our bedroom with our bed so for a while he slept in a pack and play playpen in our room until I convinced my wife he needs to learn to sleep in a room without us. I got a video baby monitor for the baby's room to put my wife at ease as I could tell the separation was difficult for her. The baby's room also doubles as a guest room and has a full size bed. When we first moved the baby to his own room wife wife said she would sleep in there with him for the first week just so she would be close and could transition easier. There isn't really room in that bed for us both to sleep comfortably so it was her in the guest bed, the baby in the crib and me by myself in our Queen bed in the master bedroom. It's now been over a month that she's been sleeping in the baby's room. When I mention her coming back to our room and letting me hook up the baby monitor, she says it's just easier to be in the room with him.

So that's where we are now. No sex. Barely ever any kisses. Sleeping in separate bedrooms.

I still find my wife to be very beautiful and sexy. When I tell her this she just treats me like I'm being a silly immature kid with a crush. I masturbate regularly to keep my sexual urges in check. I would never cheat on my wife but seeing her naked while changing clothes or me being naked myself in front of her while I'm changing clothes usually arouses me almost immediately. Living day by day basically knowing that sex won't happen has definitely had an effect on my personality. I've noticed I'm more nervous and shy while meeting new people at work. I think in some level my self confidence has suffered because hey, how confident should I be when my wife has no desire for sex and thinks I'm silly for or immature for not feeling the same way. It's gotten to the point where I don't even really know how to bring up the subject again. It's got that "I'm about to tell my best friend that I'm interested in being more than friends" feeling to it and not in a good way, not in an exciting hopeful way. Part of me has even stated to try to convince myself not to look at my wife as a beautiful sexual woman, just so I won't have to be tortured. I'm here laying in bed writing this with tears streaming down my cheeks because I miss my wife terribly. I miss our intimacy. I miss our love making. She's asleep in a room 15 feet away and I don't know what to do. I can do nothing and continue as I have been, or I can bring up the subject and deal with her frustration.

At what point is she wrong for saying no?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dude you are not married, that required physical intimacy. It is long past wrong. What was your sex life like before you got married? Do you plan on being in as sexless marriage forever? Also check your phone bill just to be sure a lot of times there may be cheating involved.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

If you want to be happy, you have to risk everything you thought you had but don’t. Who knows if she will come around, or if she even wants to.  A year and a half and it doesn’t get better as they age. She may want another kid, use you for your sperm and that’s it again.

If you truely want to be happy (and nobody is ever happy living like his), you have to be willing to lose it all. You have to stop with any and all physical intimacy. No more pecks on the cheek or lips, no more good nights, no more trying to nice her into sexing you. She isn’t your wife, she is your sister. So you really want to have sex with your sister? No, of course not.

Now, work on you. Disengage from her. Do the 180. When you have time, do not spend it with her. Go to the gym, take the kid out by yourself, start becoming a single parent until you have the chutzpah to make the final stand.

See, if you continue as you are, she won’t have any respect for you, she knows she is in FULL control and you are a whiny ***** to her. Show her you don’t want her, you don’t need her and either she will go along with it (and if so, **** her, right?) or she will double back and realize what she was missing.

You have to be willing to lose it all to have it all.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You two are not married! You are little more than "roommate babysitters!

Either she willingly goes into counseling with you, or you'll be checking out of this marriage!

God never intended for married life to be this way!*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

This is so sad to read. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I think your only hope is to get her to understand your misery. There are a few success stories in situations like yours where the wife reads the husband's type of story and realizes his misery and suddenly understands this may mean the end of her marriage...I would say your only chance might be having her read your own words similar to what you wrote above.

Or...

There are a few good articles about how men in sexless marriages feel. These articles validate a man's need for intimacy and help some women understand something they may not have considered before. We could help you find a good one that you could forward to her. It might shake her up a bit.

The pain you've expressed is very sad and I hope you can somehow make it work with your wife.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
She felt the severe angst of losing a baby, does she want to feel that same pain over the loss of a H? Perhaps ask her this and if she belittles the importance of sex in a marriage then bring to her attention the overwhelming and irrefutable excess of informative evidence to the contrary that just one afternoon of research would easily provide.

She needs to be made to see that sex is not an option but rather a necessary ingredient that cannot be dispensed with at her whim. You have shown her the exact opposite thus far but if this is not dealt with your eye will eventually wonder, if it has not already and she will be posting here in the CWI section. Careful consideration on her part is warranted.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

She got what she wanted. She no longer needs a sperm donor just a worker drone.


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

Just tell her if it's not important to her she won't mind if you go get it somewhere else and not trouble her again about it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Maxtro said:


> "I'd think you should be more focused on helping me with the baby and things around the house than thinking about sex." I tried to explain to my wife that I was ready and willing to do whatever she or the baby needed first as priority one, but I felt like our sex life was being neglected.


 @Maxtro a commonly accepted philosophy for families is that a husband and wife have to give their relationship priority in order to effectively raise a child. The child needs to see his/her parents being loving/caring to one another in general in order to feel safe. Otherwise a child being aware that his/her parents are cold towards one another with result in a great deal of anxiety for the child (the same anxiety you are likely experiencing as families tend to share emotions). 

You should discuss this philosophy with your wife and tell her that your marriage needs priority. The first step would be to get some counseling.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Do yourself a favor and listen to Dr Laura. She stresses that at your stage the marriage is tantamount. Without sex, the marriage will crumble and die. Will she agree to have sex again when the child is 18?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> @Maxtro a commonly accepted philosophy for families is that a husband and wife have to give their relationship priority in order to effectively raise a child. The child needs to see his/her parents being loving/caring to one another in general in order to feel safe. Otherwise a child being aware that his/her parents are cold towards one another with result in a great deal of anxiety for the child (the same anxiety you are likely experiencing as families tend to share emotions).
> 
> You should discuss this philosophy with your wife and tell her that your marriage needs priority. The first step would be to get some counseling.


There's not enough 'likes' on the whole internet to fully emphasize just how true this is!

There's nothing more important than modeling a healthy, loving relationship for your child. It is a paradox but completely true--anybody who "puts their child first (within a marriage)" is not putting their child first at all.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

At what point is she wrong for saying no?

When she's physically/emotionally ready and able to have sex but will not. 

Of course after miscarrying and after the c section she needed time to heal, that's completely understood. After the healing is over it should have been a coming back together as a couple into making love regularly. Everything you wrote needs to be said to your wife. Not in a mean way or judgmental way, but in an honest way and not from a place of hurt but from a place or determination and strength. Tell it like it is with the understanding that it will not stay like this. This is not normal.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

In instances like this I feel like the spouse is 100% justified maintaining a side piece (man or woman). You don't want to break up the family, but you also have needs that have to be met.

Obviously try talking, maybe counseling, pull a 180 and stop holding up your end of the marital agreement since she's not either. Be a good Dad, but you don't need to be her emotional support or do the heavy lifting for her. She may sense you slipping away and come around, or she may not give a ****, either way you have an answer.

Plenty of women have miscarriages and C sections, I would wager the vast majority of women with children have had one or both in their lifetime, it doesn't mean that cutting off all sex is an appropriate reaction.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> In instances like this I feel like the spouse is 100% justified maintaining a side piece (man or woman). You don't want to break up the family, but you also have needs that have to be met.
> 
> Obviously try talking, maybe counseling, pull a 180 and stop holding up your end of the marital agreement since she's not either. Be a good Dad, but you don't need to be her emotional support or do the heavy lifting for her. She may sense you slipping away and come around, or she may not give a ****, either way you have an answer.
> 
> Plenty of women have miscarriages and C sections, I would wager the vast majority of women with children have had one or both in their lifetime, it doesn't mean that cutting off all sex is an appropriate reaction.


I agree that it's not "normal" as in something that is okay to continue. This isn't what a full marriage is. I quoted the above to highlight for you that yes indeed, the vast majority of women with children have had the experiences of either miscarriage or c section or both. Or really complicated vaginal birth, etc. These complications are incredibly common. Most women take them in stride, recover, and are able to resume being a full wife to their husband. You are not expecting too much.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JayDee7 said:


> At what point is she wrong for saying no?
> 
> When she's physically/emotionally ready and able to have sex but will not.
> 
> Of course after miscarrying and after the c section she needed time to heal, that's completely understood. After the healing is over it should have been a coming back together as a couple into making love regularly. Everything you wrote needs to be said to your wife. Not in a mean way or judgmental way, but in an honest way and not from a place of hurt but from a place or determination and strength. Tell it like it is with the understanding that it will not stay like this. This is not normal.


At this point, they are essentially sexual strangers who might as well be two people who just randomly met on the street.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

In the words of Dave Mustaine:
Hello Me, it's Me again!

No useful advice for you other than a gentle warning. If you decide to stop seeing your wife as a sexual being, at some point it will probably work. Once you hit that tipping point it can be very difficult to go back again.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Three kids, three C Sections. After six weeks sex returned to normal. No reason for it not to. You are not expecting to much.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Under normal circumstances I'd tell you to get your balls back. She has got them in a vice and you are putting up with it. Do you rub her back/feet, do all her laundry, vacuum, cook and do the dishes too. If so, STOP! 

You need to have the discussion that you aren't happy with the current arrangement. You did not sign on to a sexless marriage, but that is what she is providing. Sex is an important part of marriage and a "need" for most men (and women for that matter) like air or water. If she doesn't care to feed that part of the relationship then she shouldn't mind you going and getting it somewhere else. 

You might want to give her fair warning that in such case, it is quite common to form an attachment with the side piece and that once that happens D will be on the agenda because you may no longer be interested in marriage with her. Does marriage with her look very appealing to you wight now anyway? 

But before I give that advice, :wink2: does she have a history of depression, anxiety or any personality disorders? Does she take medications? What was her family life like growing up? How about history of abuse, rape, etc?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, I have been there and done that, and I'll tell you that, with near 100% certainty, she simply does not value a sex life with you. She made it clear that by limiting sex to her most fertile days, and by lying about the rationale, that she only wanted her kid. Honestly, that should have been a strong hint for you to cut her off right there, but you can't go backwards.

Ordinarily, I'd tell you to pack it up and leave. It's highly unlikely she'll ever have a good sex life with you. But you have an infant now and that complicates matters. Are you willing to risk the marriage to have a fulfilling relationship (even if with someone else rather than your wife)? If not, then you really just have to suck it up and find a way to cope. Otherwise, I would put a plan for divorce in motion as follows:

First, do not have sex with her, at all. Remember that for her, sex is for kids. You don't want to get her pregnant again.

Second, figure out what you need to do to be a capable single father. Spend lots of time bonding with your child. If you work nights/weekends/long shifts regularly you need to find a decent-paying steady day job if at all possible. Find a decent place to live and day care close to your work that accommodates your schedule. See a lawyer about protecting your rights and follow his/her advice. You want to show that you are as capable of raising a child as is your wife.

You absolutely do not want to be an every-other-weekend "Disneyland Dad". The main reason is that you (presumably) want to play a major role in bringing up your child, and that's hard to do if your custody is a few days a month. You don't want be in a situation where, if you divorce, your wife gets to call the shots over where the child goes to school, doctor, etc. and pay a ton of support because she has 80% custody.

Third, get her finances in shape for a split. Insist she get a job. Save a few bucks so that you can afford to get your own place and whatever else might come up if you split.

Then, you simply tell her that she has made the marriage intolerable. You are a good dad, can handle your child on your own, and refuse to remain married to someone who displays so little attraction to you. You'd rather be single than live as you do now.

If she asks you to work on the marriage, then you insist on professional counseling (for the marriage, and for herself individually if needed). If she just says she'll try harder, that's not good enough. If you read these stories long enough, you'll see that just "trying harder" leads to (at best) a short-lived increase in sex followed by a return to the norm (or even below the norm, if she resents having to try to save the marriage).

If you can salvage this marriage and be happy in it; then go for it and consider yourself lucky. If not, then move on and live your life, knowing that someone will want you and cherish you in that manner you desire.

One thing to add: even if you decide to tough it out because you don't want to end the marriage over this, I still recommend you follow most of my action plan. Don't go out and find an apartment or daycare on your own. But definitely do get a stable day job, demonstrate you are a bonded, loving father, etc. The reason is that there is no guarantee the marriage will last.

You might find that you simply cannot tolerate a sexless marriage (even though at first you thought you'd manage). Or, it might turn out that the lack of sexual connection erodes your love and respect for your wife, which in turn changes the way you treat her (it happens a lot, especially when the refuser wants to be treated like the marriage is great). Or, it might turn out that she decides after while that your usefulness has passed and she wants to be rid of you.

The point is that you cannot compel her to stay in the marriage even if you don't want it to end. At this point, she does like you much (or else you'd be having sex by now). Sure, she gets something out of the marriage or she'd be gone by now. But it's likely that whatever need you are fulfilling is temporary (kids get less needy and less expensive after a few years, she can get a job and gain financial independence if she doesn't have it already) and she could be biding her time. Your best bet is to simply be ready to be a capable parent alone, so that you are prepared regardless of what the future brings.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Dude: read Holdingontoit tread. Do you want to let time pass you by and become him?

Knowingly, and fully aware of your wife problems with sex, and you being starved of it, you went ahead and had a child with her. Really? What were you thinking? Aren't you secure enough as a man to either demand a resolution to her problem or end the relationship? It was that simple before you brought to this world a child that most likely will pay the consequences of living in a disfuncional family or being a child of divorce parents (if you ever get the balls to do it).

You must confront your wife in a direct assertive manner that the sex problem must be immediately resolved or divorce is to follow, and do follow on it, otherwise idle threats mean nothing and you'll become Holdingontoit.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Baby first. Baby is our focus. Baby needs come before ours. All so very wrong. Classic example of energies going in the complete wrong direction when baby comes along. Husband and wife come first. Babies happiness and contentment will follow happy and content parents. 

This will not get better. If your W continues with no sex for whatever reason looks good for the day, consider D. Sometimes one needs to see they are losing something(your W losing the marriage over a matter that can be fixed) and seeing this will help save the marriage.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Maxtro said:


> My wife and I have been married for 7 years now. The frequency of sex had been gradually declining over a two year period starting about 4 years ago. Once a week became twice a month became once every three months etc, etc.
> 
> In August of 2015 we were thrilled to find out she was pregnant, unfortunately at her 6 week check up the doctor was unable to find a heartbeat and determined that she had miscarried. She had to take medication that flushed everything out while I sat with her through a night of agony. Needless to say, after an experience like that, sex was a touchy subject. About 5 months later we agreed we were both ready to start trying again and the sex resumed with determination to have a baby. While I was very happy to be having sex again what made it strange was my wife's tracking of her ovulation cycles. I understand the need to for this as you want to have sex on the days of the month when the woman is most fertile if pregnancy is the goal. The down side to this is that she was completely unwilling to have sex on days other than the "ideal days". I don't claim to be an expert on female anatomy or reproductive science but my thinking was "If we want to have a baby, shouldn't we have sex as often as possible?" My wife said this was not the case as having sex too often, especially during the days she may not be as fertile could reduce the chance of her getting pregnant, even if we did have sex during the most fertile days. I didn't bother o research it further because I knew even if she was wrong, it wouldn't change her opinion and I was just thankful to be having sex again, even if it was only for a 3-5 day period each month. Anyway, good news was soon to follow as in March of 2016 multiple pregnancy tests showed the blue line. Our joy and happiness was shadowed with fear and caution. We both knew that after having seen what happened with the last pregnancy, we wouldn't fully relax until a healthy baby was born. Little did I know at the time that this event in March of 2016 would mark the end of my sex life for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...




I think the first thing you should do is print your posting and then give it to her to read. Ask her what she thinks. At the very least it will open up a dialogue. She needs to know how you feel. 

The truth is that you don't want to cheat but given enough time eventually you will. I think when wives deprive their husbands and send them out into a word full of beautiful women, they are flirting with disaster. Finding a lover when you are a married man is easy......not becoming attached emotionally (when you are deprived at home) now that is tough.....



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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Welcome to marriage.

Show her your post (no, I'm not kidding) and then send her here.

You need severe intervention.

If I were you, I'd take an ax to the extra bed in the baby's room and take the pieces to the local dump. Then I'd arrange an appointment for her with a sex therapist.

I realize you still have a small baby and she is in severe mommy mode, but you were in her life before that baby.

You've become a pushover and women rarely have any respect for a pushover. I'd put strong focus on getting your self-confidence back.

ETA: I'm really sorry to say this. She may have loved you at one time, but at some point you became a "sperm donor." Job's done.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Give your wife this link - https://forgivenwife.com/new-to-this-blog-start-here/

There are a lot of links from this author - https://forgivenwife.com/is-his-heart-battered/


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

My wife tried the "l control the sex in this marriage " talk once. I told her "you control YOUR sex." She got the point rather quickly. 


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Seriously? Is this how you want to spend your life?

Lots of excuses and none valid. Sex is an important part of any marriage and your wife's actions show she could care less about you or the marriage.

Maybe you should wake up to reality.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How long will you allow her to remain comfortable in midst of your discomfort?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> In instances like this I feel like the spouse is 100% justified maintaining a side piece (man or woman). You don't want to break up the family, but you also have needs that have to be met.


No.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> No.




Unfortunatly the reality is "Yes". But I agree it is not ideal


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

No. Adultery is never justified. If OP is that miserable, and there is no hope it will improve he has two choices:

1. If he doesn't want to "break up the family," get counseling and find a way to stay in the marriage and keep it as peaceful as possible and not commit adultery. If he commits adultery, and his wife finds out, it WILL destroy his family worse than a simple divorce would have.

2. Get a divorce.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I waited until my two kids were 4 and 5 years old to divorce my ex wife. Once they were in pre-school, it was much easier with the schedule and to make the ex work full time. We were sexless 4+ years, so yeah last time I put it in her was when my youngest was conceived. Best decision ever to leave her.

If I could do it again, I would have planned it. You have time on your side, so start stashing cash and hiding your assets.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> I waited until my two kids were 4 and 5 years old to divorce my ex wife. Once they were in pre-school, it was much easier with the schedule and to make the ex work full time. We were sexless 4+ years, so yeah last time I put it in her was when my youngest was conceived. Best decision ever.
> 
> If I could do it again, I would have planned it. You have time on your side, so start stashing cash and *start hiding your assets*.


Wow.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> I waited until my two kids were 4 and 5 years old to divorce my ex wife. Once they were in pre-school, it was much easier with the schedule and to make the ex work full time. We were sexless 4+ years, so yeah last time I put it in her was when my youngest was conceived. Best decision ever to leave her.
> 
> If I could do it again, I would have planned it. You have time on your side, so start stashing cash and hiding your assets.


I don't like the last part of your comment about hiding assets and cash. That's deceptive, I usually don't voice how I really feel here at TAM because I don't care to defend myself to people I don't know. But this is wrong.

This woman had kids with you that you knowingly help created and have decided to stay married to even when you knew it was a bad marriage. And yet you stayed. These are your kids and by hiding assets you are creating a poorer environment for them. What about the time your wife invested taking care of the kids, while you were making money? Does she deserved to be paid for that? 

Are now advising people to become financially deceptive?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Hiding assets is improper, but living your life with an eye toward an intended divorce is entirely appropriate. Cut back discretionary spending to the bone. Become a total cheapskate. You aren't trying to make your wife's life easier and have her enjoy you more. You are trying to motivate her to work to earn more money so she can have some "extras".

Of course, if you adopt this plan, your wife will be unhappy and you won't be getting any sex. But you already aren't getting any sex, so no loss there.

Note that your wife may well file for divorce herself once she realizes that you intend to be a cheapskate and that being married to you is not going to be the gravy train that she thought it was. But the sooner you divorce, the fewer years you will pay support and the sooner you will obtain your freedom. So it is a balancing act.

Whatever you do, listen to @Rob_1 and don't become me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Holdingontoit said:


> Hiding assets is *improper*


You mean ILLEGAL.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> I don't like the last part of your comment about hiding assets and cash. That's deceptive, I usually don't voice how I really feel here at TAM because I don't care to defend myself to people I don't know. But this is wrong.
> 
> This woman had kids with you that you knowingly help created and have decided to stay married to even when you knew it was a bad marriage. And yet you stayed. These are your kids and by hiding assets you are creating a poorer environment for them. What about the time your wife invested taking care of the kids, while you were making money? Does she deserved to be paid for that?
> 
> Are now advising people to become financially deceptive?


There is a huge character issue here....I'm more and more alarmed every time I read one of his posts.

I used to think he got a raw deal but now I see he's created all of it with his nasty-ness.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> You mean ILLEGAL.


It's not illegal.

There is a point where it does become illegal in a divorce.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Maxtro, I was exactly where you are two years ago. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but my situation was much longer than 18 months. I was like you: could never dream of forcing my wife to do something against her will. I wanted her to come to me naturally, when she was ready. I thought I could wait as long as necessary. This is how nice guys are supposed to be. 

It took me a very long time to realize that this was never going to happen. Nice guys really do finish last in this regard. She was never going to come to me--she was never going to be ready. I had been in denial, I guess. I wanted to believe I was desirable to her and that sex was something she wanted too. As long as I could tell myself that she just needed another few months to be ready, then I was still desirable, still a man. But when months turned into years, I gradually realized this wasn't going to happen. I'd wake up in the middle of the night, feeling worthless, resentful, eyes tearing up, and not being able to fall back asleep. It took a few years going on 4 hours of sleep to realize I had to do something, just for my own sanity.

So what I did was what Herschel suggested on page 1. I disengaged. I decided that if we weren't going to make love ever again, that I just needed to put the whole thing out of my mind and never ask for it again. But I felt angry, because I knew that other husbands did not have to make this same decision. I had a weekend where I was very short and curt in my dealings with her. She noticed immediately and asked what was wrong. I realized it wasn't fair to keep her in the dark. So I sat her down and explained to her that I'd given up on ever having a sexual relationship with her. But I told her she owed me an explanation. It was a teary-eyed conversation for both of us. She insisted that we could "work on it". I told her not to bother--not to force herself to do anything she didn't want to do. I reminded her that we'd had this discussion years earlier and she'd never done anything. I told her I didn't want her to feel coerced, so I really had no solution. But I still required an explanation on her part. Ugly, jerky husbands were attractive to their wives, but I was not. Just tell me why. What did I do wrong? No more bull**** about "working on it".

I never got a satisfactory explanation. There were a bunch of stupid excuses about how we became busy after the kids were born (right, we both work from home and they're at school all day). Supposedly she always desired me. I don't imagine she's honest with herself about this subject, much less with me. However, she did start initiating that same night. Because I love her so much, I couldn't find it in myself to reject her. We've had a regular sexual relationship ever since. It's good in that it's brought us closer. Sex is one of the few cases where treating the symptom helps rectify the underlying cause. It's bad in that I'll never really have my wish of feeling desired organically. Our rekindling was too late, to artificial. Our sexual relationship will always feel coerced or negotiated to some extent. She did permanent damage, and I will never fully trust her to have my back. 

Did your wife come from a conservative or Christian family? Sometimes there's a lot of baggage associated with that, and I think this might be part of the issue for my wife. 

My main advice to you would be: Don't let this go on any longer. Fix it now, if it's fixable. Otherwise move on.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> It's not illegal.
> 
> There is a point where it does become illegal in a divorce.


Since the suggestion was to do so in order to divorce, the act of doing it is the ILLEGAL part.

What is your point, anyway? Are you advocating hiding assets? If so, we've got nothing more to discuss anyway.

ETA: Apologies for the threadjack, I'm done.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Since the suggestion was to do so in order to divorce, the act of doing it is the ILLEGAL part.
> 
> What is your point, anyway? Are you advocating hiding assets? If so, we've got nothing more to discuss anyway.
> 
> ETA: Apologies for the threadjack, I'm done.


My point is it is no different than a SAHM saving money to divorce.

Hiding assets is just a crummy way of describing it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't advocate deception like this either. But, realistically, if his wife can rationalize and be comfortable with cutting off sex, then it's not hard to imagine she could rationalize hiding assets herself.

Divorces seem to devolve into a situation where people worry about their own interests far and above their former spouse's. The Pop's wife already has that mentality.

So I would not advise the OP to hide money, but I would advise him to make sure his wife is not doing it either. Scrutinize all the bills. Get a credit report for both of them. Look at receipts to verify that a $100 grocery store trip isn't really $50 of stuff and $50 cash back.

Then if stuff doesn't add up, make sure you protect yourself. If she challenges you, just say that you are being money smart and intend to start taking better care of yourself.



brooklynAnn said:


> I don't like the last part of your comment about hiding assets and cash. That's deceptive, I usually don't voice how I really feel here at TAM because I don't care to defend myself to people I don't know. But this is wrong.
> 
> This woman had kids with you that you knowingly help created and have decided to stay married to even when you knew it was a bad marriage. And yet you stayed. These are your kids and by hiding assets you are creating a poorer environment for them. What about the time your wife invested taking care of the kids, while you were making money? Does she deserved to be paid for that?
> 
> Are now advising people to become financially deceptive?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Don't do this parsing of words B.S.

Sure it isn't illegal to stash some cash. But when divorce time comes, you legally must disclose everything.

Since the clear intent of the advice was to make money disappear, he is suggesting doing something illegal. If his advise was to save up for an attorney, that would be a different story.



ButtPunch said:


> It's not illegal.
> 
> There is a point where it does become illegal in a divorce.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> There is a huge character issue here....I'm more and more alarmed every time I read one of his posts.
> 
> I used to think he got a raw deal but now I see he's created all of it with his nasty-ness.


You're just picking up on that now? Then you probably didn't catch the fact that the sexless marriage he always talks about was a result of his choice then. His wife wasn't a refuser, he just didn't want to have sex with her so he made his plan and dumped her. And of course now he's married to an addict. He surrounds himself with dysfunction.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > There is a huge character issue here....I'm more and more alarmed every time I read one of his posts.
> ...


No not just picking up on this now, I just get even more and more freaked out the more he posts.

Don't forget he also cheated on his wife.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow.


Reality is a harsh mistress.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.
> ...


Sorry but illegally trying to hide money from your spouse is not everyone's reality.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP my heart breaks for you. I can only imagine how soul crushing it must be to be treated so coldly by your spouse.

You are her husband. YOU should be her number one. 

You need to have a come to Jesus conversation with her. Tell her that things must change or your marriage is on the line. 

Don't cheat - you don't want that stain on your character. Once you've done it, you can never undo it, and it will affect your future relationships. I would never get involved with a cheater. I don't care why they cheated, or how justified they felt in doing so. It's never ok. Get happy or get out.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sorry but illegally trying to hide money from your spouse is not everyone's reality.


I'm not talking titling the house in my cat's name... or changing direct deposit to Bitcoin.

Call it a slush fund, especially if your partner has his or her ways of thinking about money. Not a lot of money, but enough for a few legal motions.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Reality is a harsh mistress.


Is it illegal to hide money from yourself? I transferred almost all my liquid assets/investments into my wife's name a long time ago. (Mainly for tax reasons).


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Is it illegal to hide money from yourself? I transferred almost all my liquid assets/investments into my wife's name a long time ago. (Mainly for tax reasons).


If I were you, I'd sue myself.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@Maxtro

Are you still reading here?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> @Maxtro
> 
> Are you still reading here?


According to his profile he hasn't been logged into the website since the minute he made the post. He posted, logged off and hasn't returned. It doesn't seem he's read any of the replies and likely isn't coming back. He was a drive by.


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## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for being absent for so long after this post. I have read evey single response and taken them to heart. It’s not easy to hear from so many that I should just get out, that I have to choose between my marriage and my happiness. Our son is going to turn one year old next week and the thought of being away from him or taking him away from his mom rips my guts out. Since my last post I have brought up the lack of sex with my wife but I haven’t received much of a response. I realize that when you have a child many things you like to do get pushed to the side for things you have to do. She’s given up much of the crafting type stuff she used to do, I’ve stopped my home brewing, etc. Unfortunately, I think she thinks of sex as one of the things me as the husbands likes to do that has to get pushed to the side. For the time being I’ve decided to work on improving myself as much as possible. I’m currently seeing a mental health professional to deal with the depression and anxiety. I’m I’m also seeing various medical professionals to deal with the physical consequences of the constant stress. I’m eating better and working out more. I’ve decided to focus all my efforts on being a healthy and amazing father who is also just a damn good man. If things improve in our relationship, great. If not, at least I’ll know my self worth. I will try to post updates as things happen. Thank you again for all the feedback. This has truly been one of the most difficult times in my life. I have a wife that I find beautiful and a son who lights up the room with his smile and yet I spend 90% of my time exhausted, angry or sad. I’ll take it one day at a time hoping for small improvements.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Maxtro please take heart. Lots on here give divorce advice but you don't have to take it. Having children does bring a natural low in libido for women. No your wife's doesn't fall in the natural range but 'in sickness and in health' apply here.

First have you scheduled time to yourselves away from the baby? Women have to get out of mommy mode to get in the right headspace for vixen mode. It sounds as if she is too attached. Does she allow anyone to watch the child while you two go out?


Second have you tried couples therapy? Or a sex therapist? Sometimes you need an outside party to tell her no sex is not OK.

Third have you read anything like she comes first or his needs her needs? Five languages of love?

You guys have to work on reconnecting to build a strong marriage to survive little ones. Children are wonderful but also hard on a marriage.

Is her family around?


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

I consider myself to be a "drive by" TAM lurker because so many times advice is given that is just plain bad and anybody who speaks out against the group think are told that they are in denial. 
@Maxtro, I think you did the right thing by going to see mental and physical health care professionals and focus on your frame of mind and physical well being.

I didn't see any mention of it in your OP but am I to assume that your wife had a miscarriage? What did come through was that there were concerns about a miscarriage before and after conception but that eventually you two conceived and that the baby was born physically healthy, despite her needing to have a C-section. 

I could certainly see her not wanting to have sex while she healed, but clearly after the child turned a year old that time has passed. As I read your OP more and more I got the feeling that she was also suffering from depression and anxiety even before conceiving your son. 

If there was indeed a miscarriage, how did she react to it emotionally? Was she different afterward? Did she grieve and cry openly and look to you for comfort? Did she express any feelings of shame or angrily blame others - or even you - for what happened? Did she become distant at that time? Was the decision to try for another child a mutual decision? If not was it hers? How soon was the decision to try to conceive again arrived upon? 

What I find really concerning is that she seems to be focused on the baby nearly to the point of obsession. Having a healthy baby sleep in the same bedroom ceased to be okay when one of the parents took issue with it. You were in the right here and you provided a partial solution: put the crib in another room and set up a monitor. At that point though, that room should have ceased to be considered as a "spare bedroom" and became a full-fledged nursery - with NO bed. Your wife may have given you the excuse that sleeping in there was "just easier" but that's a cop out. She was feeling insecure without having the baby nearby. At that point she chose instinctively to be a mother first and foremost, but believe me when I say that she's not doing ANYBODY any favors. 

Before you start thinking of accusing her of neglecting you or coddling your son - and by extension start down the path of resenting your child for stealing your wife from you - think of what this means for your child's development. He's learning that there will always be someone there at his beck and call. Just as she draws a feeling of security from being near him, so will he from being near her. This could compromise his ability to develop any kind of independence. That's not healthy for HIM. 

In order to get any sort of reprieve from this alienation you need to do several things: 

1: get your wife out of Mommy Mode and put down her self imposed burden. That means that YOU have to step up with your son whenever you can or whenever she needs it. It's an exercise in building trust. It won't be easy, but that's part of being a husband AND a father. 

2: spend time together as a family of 3, especially in the evenings prior to bedtime. Help with bath time. Change diapers. Read bedtime stories. Be close to each other. Don't shy from gentle nonsexual touching. Bond. This also build trusts between ALL of you. She will notice. Hopefully this rekindles her dormant feelings of love for you. 

3: once you have build up trust from her to allow you to spend time alone, suggest to your wife to do things for herself - like her crafts which you say she gave up. Don't be afraid to call her away from them if you feel like YOU need help. 

4: talk to your wife. If she resists, suggest that she talk to a professional as you have. When she does, suggest marriage counseling and eventually sex therapy. 

The one thing that you have to do is to avoid any feelings of hurt or resentment at ALL costs. If you feel angry, find another outlet for it - even if it's Call of Duty on a game console.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Meh, nothing much will change no matter what you do.

Accept it or reject it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Maxtro said:


> Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for being absent for so long after this post. I have read evey single response and taken them to heart. It’s not easy to hear from so many that I should just get out, that I have to choose between my marriage and my happiness. Our son is going to turn one year old next week and the thought of being away from him or taking him away from his mom rips my guts out. Since my last post I have brought up the lack of sex with my wife but I haven’t received much of a response. I realize that when you have a child many things you like to do get pushed to the side for things you have to do. She’s given up much of the crafting type stuff she used to do, I’ve stopped my home brewing, etc. Unfortunately, I think she thinks of sex as one of the things me as the husbands likes to do that has to get pushed to the side. For the time being I’ve decided to work on improving myself as much as possible. I’m currently seeing a mental health professional to deal with the depression and anxiety. I’m I’m also seeing various medical professionals to deal with the physical consequences of the constant stress. I’m eating better and working out more. I’ve decided to focus all my efforts on being a healthy and amazing father who is also just a damn good man. If things improve in our relationship, great. If not, at least I’ll know my self worth. I will try to post updates as things happen. Thank you again for all the feedback. This has truly been one of the most difficult times in my life. I have a wife that I find beautiful and a son who lights up the room with his smile and yet I spend 90% of my time exhausted, angry or sad. I’ll take it one day at a time hoping for small improvements.


If you are staying why not try to free up some time for both of you do date each other again. Maybe she is exhausted.

You need to write her a letter and start with this. 

This has truly been one of the most difficult times in my life. I have a wife that I find beautiful and a son who lights up the room with his smile and yet I spend 90% of my time exhausted, angry or sad. 

Maybe add why you fell in love with her and why her rejecting you hurts. 

Also I don't know if your are spiritual but this blog is really good for this subject.  It might not speak to you or your wife if you are not. 

I am sorry for you. If nothing changes eventually your marriage will blow up.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Working on yourself is a good thing. It will help you deal with the anxiety, and will also make you more attractive to all women - maybe even her - should you chose to end this.

But YOU going to the doctor, YOU going to counseling, YOU working on yourself....well, just what exactly is the other half of this relationship doing other than giving up crafts?

You've got to take the lead on this my man. Tell her it is time. Time to get this worked out. None of this "I'll try to work on it" garbage. No woman, you'll work on it with me NOW, with a marriage counselor / sex therapist / individual counseling. 

Get the spare bed out of the baby's room and store it. If there is a night where the baby needs constant attention or monitoring, she can pull the crib out by the couch and one of you can sleep on that near the kid.

This is not going to get any better until SHE meets you half way in the effort to make it so.

Also consider she may have some very negative and or / purpose driven (making babies) feelings about sex now as a result of the miscarriage and subsequent attempts to get pregnant again. That's understandable. But if that is the case, it can be and needs to be fixed! That can happen through counseling for her, and couples counseling.

How did the pregnancy treat her body? Is she having real body image issues because of changes (stretch marks, c section scar, weight, etc)? Counseling and your reassurance there could go a long way. But reassuring someone they are sexy when they have demonstrated for far too long the last thing they want from you is sex is not the best course of action either. 

Keep doing what you're doing working on yourself, but time to take a lead here and get her started down the road to working on herself and the marriage. You guys are lost in the dark, fumbling your way around and stumbling toward a cliff, when there is a flashlight in your pocket (sex, couples, individual counseling). She has got to be made to understand this is NOT okay and will end in disaster for this family. And it seems you've been at a point for a while where you are unable to do it alone. 

Lead. Set up a babysitter (family, trusted friend). Set up an interview with a couple's counselor. Tell her you are both going. Set up a late lunch or dinner afterwards (nothing too special, but some place decent and quiet to talk face to face - about the counselor, interview, and things which were discussed - without distractions). Then do it. If she protests and comes up with any number of reasons she can't or won't do it, tell her you have tried to work on it, she has said she would but has been unwilling, and it is now time for action. That action can be either her becoming engaged in the marriage and help making it work, or the action can be moving toward separation and divorce. Her choice. Be pleasant, but be FIRM. Do not put all of this on her. Concede that you are also lost and unsure of what else to do, so you are seeking help for you, her, and the BABY's benefit. 

This is a family. It takes all members of the family to work on their areas of importance to the family unit to keep it a tight knit and happy one. One simply cannot place one area of concern above others to the detriment of other important things if it is to survive.


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## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

Checking back in with an update. Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for the gap between posts but life has been very hectic.

I finally had a sit down with my wife and had the “are we okay” discussion. I explained to her that we were coming up on 2 years of no sex. I told her that sleeping in OUR bedroom alone while she slept in the baby’s room made me feel insignificant, replaced and and like an awkward roommate. To her credit she sat quietly and listened until I had finished what I needed to say. When it was her turn to talk she told me that she has come to resent me because I haven’t gotten the promotion at work that I’ve been working towards and it’s effecting her goal of quitting her job and being a stay at home mom and having a second child. Due to her age she feels the window of opportunity is closing to safely have another baby. She went on to say that sleeping in the baby’s room started out of convenience but now she doesn’t like to be in our room because seeing our furniture and stuff reminds her of the things in the house she’d like to improve and replace but can’t if I don’t get that promotion. Also, I have obstructive sleep apnea and have to sleep with a CPAP machine every night. She says she doesnt like sharing a bed with me because of the noise the machine makes, it’s no louder than a humidifier and she sleeps with one of those running every night in the baby’s room. 

I was diagnosed and got my machine 4 months before we met (10 years ago). Initially I was very self conscious about using it when we shared a bed because what’s sexy about having to sleep with a humidifier air pressure machine strapped to your face. I’ve seen grown and matured and sleep with it every night because I take my health much more seriously.

Back to our conversation. She said “Back when you were thinner you didn’t have to use your machine as much and being in the same bed wasn’t as bad.” While I ha e gained about 50 pounds since we met, I told her that even if I lost 100 pounds, I would still need to use the machine and probably will for the rest of my life. I could visibly see the disappointment on her face when I said this. Ah also said “No wife wants to think of her husband as a loser but you’ve been working toward this promotion for 10 years and it hasn’t happened so I can’t help but feel that way, and it’s affecting me and my goals now.”

In summary. She wants me to lose weight, not use my CPAP, get a promotion to make more money, and then maybe the sex and affection will return.

The battle continues...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Maxtro said:


> Checking back in with an update. Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for the gap between posts but life has been very hectic.
> 
> I finally had a sit down with my wife and had the “are we okay” discussion. I explained to her that we were coming up on 2 years of no sex. I told her that sleeping in OUR bedroom alone while she slept in the baby’s room made me feel insignificant, replaced and and like an awkward roommate. To her credit she sat quietly and listened until I had finished what I needed to say. When it was her turn to talk she told me that she has come to resent me because I haven’t gotten the promotion at work that I’ve been working towards and it’s effecting her goal of quitting her job and being a stay at home mom and having a second child. Due to her age she feels the window of opportunity is closing to safely have another baby. She went on to say that sleeping in the baby’s room started out of convenience but now she doesn’t like to be in our room because seeing our furniture and stuff reminds her of the things in the house she’d like to improve and replace but can’t if I don’t get that promotion. Also, I have obstructive sleep apnea and have to sleep with a CPAP machine every night. She says she doesnt like sharing a bed with me because of the noise the machine makes, it’s no louder than a humidifier and she sleeps with one of those running every night in the baby’s room.
> 
> ...


You can become the CEO of the Bank of America,have a body that Dwayne Johnson would envy and be able to breathe under water and your wife still isn’t going to have sex with you.She will probably say it’s because you can’t fly.
If you keep doing the same things you will get the same results.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Maxtro said:


> Checking back in with an update. Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for the gap between posts but life has been very hectic.
> 
> I finally had a sit down with my wife and had the “are we okay” discussion. I explained to her that we were coming up on 2 years of no sex. I told her that sleeping in OUR bedroom alone while she slept in the baby’s room made me feel insignificant, replaced and and like an awkward roommate. To her credit she sat quietly and listened until I had finished what I needed to say. When it was her turn to talk she told me that she has come to resent me because I haven’t gotten the promotion at work that I’ve been working towards and it’s effecting her goal of quitting her job and being a stay at home mom and having a second child. Due to her age she feels the window of opportunity is closing to safely have another baby. She went on to say that sleeping in the baby’s room started out of convenience but now she doesn’t like to be in our room because seeing our furniture and stuff reminds her of the things in the house she’d like to improve and replace but can’t if I don’t get that promotion. Also, I have obstructive sleep apnea and have to sleep with a CPAP machine every night. She says she doesnt like sharing a bed with me because of the noise the machine makes, it’s no louder than a humidifier and she sleeps with one of those running every night in the baby’s room.
> 
> ...


Ha, there is no battle you've already lost the war.

How sweet of you to surrender and become a celibate monk. 

This is the rest of your life with her. Until she finds someone else and dumps your ass.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marc878 said:


> Ha, there is no battle you've already lost the war.
> 
> How sweet of you to surrender and become a celibate monk.
> 
> This is the rest of your life with her. *Until she finds someone else and dumps your ass.*


which she most likely will do. after all, if a lack of money turns her off, then what happens when someone who has money takes an interest in her?

i would divorce. she is not marriage material.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Maxtro said:


> <snip>
> 
> The battle continues...


As was said, there is no battle.

She has no love for you at all. You are just a meal ticket to her, and the only thing that is keeping you with her is your own insecurity.

You are much better off alone than to attempt to continue with her. File for divorce.

Personally I would have recommended you refuse to act as her sperm donor the very first time she said no sex on days when she wasn't fertile, way back when. I would have demanded all the issues be resolved before proceeding toward another pregnancy.

But you can't change the past. I have my own problems with the past.

You can change your future.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Maxtro said:


> In summary. She wants me to lose weight, not use my CPAP, get a promotion to make more money, and then maybe the sex and affection will return.


 I'm going to fix this sentence for you Dawg. "In summary, I sit her down and told her what I wanted. She told me the way its going to be and that is that." She ain't giving you no poon tang because she don't respect you. A woman cannot be drawn or attracted to a man she don't respect. Whether she loves you or not is beside the point but she certainly doesn't love you "that way". Her price is way out of kilter with your funds my man. I'd hate to be stuck with a harpy like that. I'd cut her loose kid or no kid.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Well, love, respect, love in that way, whatever.

She doesn't even *like* you. She only sees dollar signs when she sees you.

I don't see how you can stand to even look at her.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Ask her who the father of her next child will be as you have no intention of continuing on in a sexless marriage with a woman who clearly doesn't love you and won't be her sperm donor a 2nd time.

Seriously. The nerve.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP basically, you are one of those clueless men, that never developed self-respect, and most likely doesn't know how to be a man. most likely you think that you can't never again do better, in other words you're not even a beta man.

So just give it up, get a very good anti-virus on your phone, and just have the tissues ready by your bed's nightstand, so that every time you need release, just get a porn video, and live the rest of your life living it like what you are: a weak doormat, unable to detach, and masturbating till the day you can't even do that.

So sad, and angry for you, because you can even get angry for yourself.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Holy crap, she’s shallow!

You’re in a sexless marriage that is limping along on life support, and she won’t sleep in the marital bedroom because she doesn’t like the FURNITURE??? Even worse, she doesn’t like the furniture because it’s a constant reminder that you are a promotion-less loser who will never earn enough for her to be a SAHM.

Jeez, she really takes the cake.

Whatever you do, DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

So basically, it's all your fault, you're weak and pathetic, you're unattractive, your condition is unforgivable, you didn't get a dream job so she could have a cushy life and nice furniture, and you'd better give her another child soon.

Losing weight will help your sleep apnea, it won't cure it, but it'll help. If it's 50lbs of dead weight there's no harm in losing it anyway.

She's got no love or respect for you. You deserve a lot better.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Satya said:


> So basically, it's all your fault, you're weak and pathetic, you're unattractive, your condition is unforgivable, you didn't get a dream job so she could have a cushy life and nice furniture, and you'd better give her another child soon.
> 
> Losing weight will help your sleep apnea, it won't cure it, but it'll help. If it's 50lbs of dead weight there's no harm in losing it anyway.
> 
> She's got no love or respect for you. You deserve a lot better.


Mary said she knows how the Original Poster can loose over a hundred pounds of dead weight pretty fast.

My wife has some choice words for your wife, @Maxtro 

They all have to do with making money the oldest way.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

WilliamM said:


> Mary said she knows how the Original Poster can loose over a hundred pounds of dead weight pretty fast.


Mary and Odo have a similar way of thinking.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I have to agree your wife is not right. I would file for divorce while she has a job otherwise once she's a stay at home mom the alimony goes way up, make sure to file for 50/50 custody. This may wake her up but even if it does is this who you want to spend eternity with? Let her find the perfect rich guy to father child number two.

Losing the weight stopped my husband from needing his cpap he didn't even get all the way down.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

those are hard things to hear Maxtro, i agree with the others your wife is extremely shallow, and trust me when i say even if you were to do all that there would be something else...it will be all about making her happy instead of being happy...Maxtro, i am all for making sacrifice for the family, but she is not worth it....not at the expense of being your self...and she uses sex as a weapon....i would tell her to keep her weapon your trading her in for someone who accepts you for you. You will never make her happy.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

All this talk about another kid. Hell the kid they have may not be his. She's likely doing somebody else.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Ask her who the father of her next child will be as you have no intention of continuing on in a sexless marriage with a woman who clearly doesn't love you and won't be her sperm donor a 2nd time.
> 
> Seriously. The nerve.


This.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

m00nman said:


> I consider myself to be a "drive by" TAM lurker because so many times advice is given that is just plain bad and anybody who speaks out against the group think are told that they are in denial.
> 
> @Maxtro, I think you did the right thing by going to see mental and physical health care professionals and focus on your frame of mind and physical well being.
> 
> ...


I would start detaching so I could move on with my life and divorce. Your wife is not a wife and hasn't been for a long time. She sees you as a means to achieve stuff. Unfortunately you married bad. Better women out there.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Divorce this awful woman. I feel sorry for the next guy who's foolish enough to marry her. I can't imagine ever speaking to my wife like that. A spouse is more than just a financial opportunity. She's shown you who she really is.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

St. Paul said that a woman's body is not hers, but the man's. And a man's body is not his, but the woman's. Marriage is not a license to
hold another person in sexual bondage. Placing you in perpetual abstinence is grounds for divorce. Dump her!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@Maxtro, how are you doing?


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## Mommame2 (Oct 8, 2017)

That's just about the coldest, most shallow thing I've ever heard.

I'm so sorry, OP. May you find peace. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

sokillme said:


> I would start detaching so I could move on with my life and divorce. Your wife is not a wife and hasn't been for a long time. She sees you as a means to achieve stuff. Unfortunately you married bad. Better women out there.


Hey, I gave my opinion. Why call me out? 

Granted, it's been a year. There should at least be affection.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you have gained fifty pounds since marriage, I am not surprised she cut you off. You have mental issues. You have an addiction just like any other addiction. Fix yourself. Then see what happens.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm sorry, your wife is a shallow, blame shifting *****. Didn't even try to acknowledge that *she* is responsible for her actions and choices. 

I agree with other posters that your wife has lost respect for you and sees you as a commodity. Odds are, you will never get it back. You need to gain some self respect. Keep eating right and working out. Keep talking to your counselor. Come to grip with the fact that your wife has been using you. Learn that it's okay to be upset and mad about the situation that you are currently living. You are allowed to get pissed and let your wife know it (Not in a physical or violent way of course).

You say you love your son, show him. Kids role model after their parents. They should be seeing two people that love and respect each other, not a frigid ***** brow beating her husband. They say that if you love something, you have to let it go. If it comes back, it is yours forever. Although, I doubt your wife would come back, nor would I want her.

As you are working on your mind and body, start working an exit strategy. Believe it or not, most states are geared towards 50/50 parenting after divorce. Instead of searching porn to wank off, use it to learn about divorce strategy and the statutes in your state. Learn that there is a life after divorce, and that life can be pretty good. But you have to man-up and realize that you are not getting what you need from this marriage. Marriage is supposed to be a two-way street but yours has turned into a one-way only. You are allowed to be happy too, stand up for what you want.

I know that it sounds daunting, but divorce can be a good thing. My former marriage was similar to yours, little physical intimacy, and kids were the priority. I can't tell you in words how happy I was after she left. Sure it was sucky in the beginning, but then I realized after a while how nice it was. I could do what I wanted, when I wanted, with who I wanted. My money was my money and I had more of it in the bank. I still got to see my kids all the time and there was still time to the other things I wanted. And there are plenty of good women out there who are interested in you. 

It's a life style change but many have done it before you. Don't live this depressed life with your life sucking leech of a wife. Get your happiness back.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Maxtro said:


> In summary. She wants me to lose weight, not use my CPAP, get a promotion to make more money, and then maybe the sex and affection will return.
> 
> The battle continues...





Malaise said:


> She got what she wanted. She no longer needs a sperm donor just a worker drone.



Max,

I know you read these posts. Read the part I quoted from you and the part I quoted from Malaise on page 1.

It really doesn't get any simpler.

If it was me, I would have thanked her for her honesty. I would have then started a new diet with the goal of losing 75 pounds, and would have scheduled an appointment with a lawyer to discuss divorce proceedings. I would then have her served at work. 100% extreme hard 180.

You can do so much better. I highly doubt she ever loved you. You have always been a means to an end for her, and you will eventually outlive your usefulness.

When a person shows you who they are, believe them!
I can't understand how you can look at her and not want to violently vomit!


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

VladDracul said:


> Her price is way out of kilter with your funds my man. I'd hate to be stuck with a harpy like that. I'd cut her loose kid or no kid.


Lol.
I think it's the other way around. She thinks she's Secretariat, but in reality she's a piss poor excuse for Maidstone Mixture.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

It sounds like your wife married you not for you, but for who she thought she could change you into. I guess now you are being punished for not changing and being the man she wanted you to be. Very selfish and destructive behaviour on her part. 

It sound like your wife is a good mom and loves your son very much. She really needs to stop and think about what the quality of life her child will have if you end up divorcing her for not doing her part in mantaining the marriage. She is being very foolish in thinking that her child is not suffering while your marriage suffers. The relationship of the husband and wife is the foundation of the family. When its cracked and damaged it always falls and kids get broken in the process. If she wants her children to thrive and succeed she needs to make your marriage a priority, which means making you a priority in her life. 

I can see your wifes wish with wanting to be a stay at home mom, I myself wanted nothing more than to raise my children and be home with them. Instead of blaming you for not financially being able to, can you as a family look at your budget and cut out or downsize your life to make that happen. Your wife needs to understand that her being a stay at home mom means furniture will not be replaced and maybe trip not taken. You can always tighten your belt and shave expenses off your budget. I’m sorry to say to me it feel like your wife is resentful that you are not giving her the lifestyle she wants and is angry she has to work and not be able to buy and have everything she wants.

Sorry you are in this position. I hope things work out for you and your wife.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Maxtro said:


> Checking back in with an update. Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for the gap between posts but life has been very hectic.
> 
> I finally had a sit down with my wife and had the “are we okay” discussion. I explained to her that we were coming up on 2 years of no sex. I told her that sleeping in OUR bedroom alone while she slept in the baby’s room made me feel insignificant, replaced and and like an awkward roommate. To her credit she sat quietly and listened until I had finished what I needed to say. When it was her turn to talk she told me that she has come to resent me because I haven’t gotten the promotion at work that I’ve been working towards and it’s effecting her goal of quitting her job and being a stay at home mom and having a second child. Due to her age she feels the window of opportunity is closing to safely have another baby. She went on to say that sleeping in the baby’s room started out of convenience but now she doesn’t like to be in our room because seeing our furniture and stuff reminds her of the things in the house she’d like to improve and replace but can’t if I don’t get that promotion. Also, I have obstructive sleep apnea and have to sleep with a CPAP machine every night. She says she doesnt like sharing a bed with me because of the noise the machine makes, it’s no louder than a humidifier and she sleeps with one of those running every night in the baby’s room.
> 
> ...


Divorce.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I think you need the red pill. go to married red pill reddit and read up

Read "Married man sex life primer" and "hold on to your nuts"


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

She sounds like one of those ''tiger moms''. Is she asian, by chance?


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## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

Back again with another update. I know it’s probably not healthy or helping my mental state to keep track but at this point I have gone 846 days without sex. As suggested by many of the responses, I had a lengthy conversation with my wife where I explained that my needs and desires weren’t being met. I asked if it was because of my weight gain or declining health. I asked if it was because of the increased responsibility of having a child. I explained to her that I believe/feel that the decline in my heath and self confidence is a combination of going over two years without sex but also going two years with the knowledge that my own wife has no desire to have sex with her husband. She listened and her first response was “So All this conversation and talk is about how you feel like you’re not getting enough sex?” I felt silly saying “It’s not that I’m not getting enough sex, it’s that I’m not getting any sex, and neither are you.” She did open up and go on to tell me that her own weight gain has made her feel less attractive and not sexy. She said she wouldn’t be able to enjoy sex because of her physical appearance and has become shy about even letting me see her undressed. I assured her that I still think she’s beautiful and that part of my struggle is that when I see her even partially undressed, I get extremely aroused. It’s like being a teenager again who gets a raging hard on from seeing a bare butt cheek or seeing her topless from the back, not being able to see breast but just knowing they’re exposed. In a moment of frustration I told her that I’m not as confident in my body image as I used to be but if I knew she wanted to have sex, I would set aside my self consciousnous and have sex with her. I’d focus on pleasing her and enjoying the feeling. She told me that we’re wired differently and that she can’t do that. She kept shifting the conversation back to a place that made me feel selfish for “expecting” sex from her. Ive offered to work out with her, to take our son out and run errands so she can do a workouts if she’s prefer to do them alone, she wasn’t interested in any of it. I’ve consulted outsiders and have come to realize it’s reached the point of go without or go elsewhere. Ive gone without for two years so despite the fact that I love my wife very much, the idea of going elsewhere is very tempting... as an idea. I have a feeling once in the act, I’d hate myself and not even be able to participate, much less enjoy it. I always hear stories about people who’ve had affairs and they experts always say when someone strays from the marriage it’s not simply for sex. I feel like in my case that’s exactly what it would be for. I admit, we have many emotional things to work on but I can’t help but feel like that process might be a little smoother and we’d both be a little more likely to make the effort if there was the occasional sexual interaction. I took vows to be faithful. I’m not overly religious or anything, it’s more of a respect thing. It’s irritational but my though on it is anyone who asks their partner to have sex with only them for the rest of their life and then refuses to have sex with them ever, deserves to be cheated on, and yet I don’t feel my wife deserves to be cheated on. I don’t feel I deserve to live without a sex life. When my wife was a child, her dad cheated on her mom which led to the marriage ending and her having no relationship with her dad for at least 20 years. Now she and her dad have worked things out and speak regularly and I can tell she’s happier for it. It’s for this reason that I know she’d take it extra extra hard if I were to cheat. I will continue to play my hand tactfully day by day with the hopes of one getting a breakthrough that can lead to progress and eventually a regular sex life. I’ve been researching “sexless marriages” a lot over the past months and I’m curious what everyone else thinks, men and women. Does it seem like the case tends to be, when a woman’s sexual needs aren’t being met and the partner is unwilling to have sex, he’s being selfish and needs to understand that she has needs and desires but when the man’s sexual needs aren’t being met it’s because he’s being selfish and expects his woman to be a sexual piece of meat to satisfy him? I apologize if this comes across as sexist or biased. I know I’m every relationship one person will have a lower sex drive than the other and that’s the person who essentially controls the sex, but at what point (if any) is the right thing to do, have sex with your partner because they want it. Nobody should be forced into sex. I think what is often chronically over looked is the question of, should anyone ever be forced to never have sex? I apologize for my ranting and the long post, I needed to vent. I’m extremely honey and sexually starved, I get by in moments of privacy with porn (at this point literally no genre is off limits, sometimes it requires the extreme genres). The one thing I truly desire is the thing I can’t have. For those of you in happy, passionate and fulfilling sexual relationships... hold your partner tight, breathe in their scent, feel their skin against yours, let the sweat from your combined exertion mingle, and never let go. Do it for those of us who have to to experience this, and for those of us who no longer do, but yearn for it constantly. It may be quite a while before my next post but I will check back occasionally as I’m am greatly appreciative of any feedback. Thank you.


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## Maxtro (Apr 26, 2017)

No, she’s not Asian. She’s mixed, her dad is black and her mom is white.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I think you stumbled when she challenged your conversation being "all about sex"
This is when you need to say "Yes, I am a sexual being and I need it... Do you want to be the one to be there with me"

So many men fall for the trap when their wife asks that and run away "no no, its not all about sex, i love you baby... let me go do the dishes right now to show you"

YES, it is about sex. I am a man with testosterone flowing through my veins. Do YOU want to be the one to have sex with me... Because I am going to pursue sex


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Oh, and stop waiting on her to improve yourself.
Go to the gym, loose that fat and pack on muscle. She will react to your changes.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I find her arguments laughable. And I don't know how you allow yourself to be twisted around like a pretzel, but oh well. Time to put your foot down.

Flat out tell her that sex is an important NEED and you aren't ashamed of that at all. That is how God made men and you will have it with her or someone else, if she is unwilling. Her lack of sexual engagement and intimacy isn't acceptable to you and shows you how little she really cares for you and your emotional and physical well-being. 

Then ask her is she wants an open marriage, a sexual marriage or a divorce? Then give her 3 days to make a decision.

It is high time for her to **** or get off the pot.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm not married anymore, and I don't have children, so please take this response for what it's worth to you. Also, I'm a woman writing this.

My heart breaks for you and your lack of closeness in your relationship. Not just the sex, but that emotional connection. Your wife has been in the wrong (in my mind) for a very long time. Withholding sex and intimacies is a form of abuse, and it's not something that anyone should have to go through in a relationship/marriage.

My first suggestion to you is to tell your wife exactly what you told us here: that you miss her, your intimacy, your love making, and that you want to rekindle that connection. I would also say that her reaction will be very telling.

If she's open to a discussion, that's excellent!

If she shuts you down though, I would let her know that this is a deal breaker for you. Let her know what you require to continue in a marriage with her, and if she's not willing to even try or go to marital counselling, then I would probably say that it's healthier for everyone involved for you guys to go your separate ways and find someone that you can be in a healthy relationship with.

Like I said, I'm not a parent, but I would think that parents can't just be parents and that's all. They need to be best friends, lovers, and they need to tend to their relationship between each other. It's important on more than 1 level: for your relationship, and also to teach your children what a solid, healthy relationship is.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Deleted


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Maxtro said:


> Checking back in with an update. Thank you all for your responses. My apologies for the gap between posts but life has been very hectic.
> 
> I finally had a sit down with my wife and had the “are we okay” discussion. I explained to her that we were coming up on 2 years of no sex. I told her that sleeping in OUR bedroom alone while she slept in the baby’s room made me feel insignificant, replaced and and like an awkward roommate. To her credit she sat quietly and listened until I had finished what I needed to say. When it was her turn to talk she told me that she has come to resent me because I haven’t gotten the promotion at work that I’ve been working towards and it’s effecting her goal of quitting her job and being a stay at home mom and having a second child. Due to her age she feels the window of opportunity is closing to safely have another baby. She went on to say that sleeping in the baby’s room started out of convenience but now she doesn’t like to be in our room because seeing our furniture and stuff reminds her of the things in the house she’d like to improve and replace but can’t if I don’t get that promotion. Also, I have obstructive sleep apnea and have to sleep with a CPAP machine every night. She says she doesnt like sharing a bed with me because of the noise the machine makes, it’s no louder than a humidifier and she sleeps with one of those running every night in the baby’s room.
> 
> ...


So, it's all about her wants and needs then? What about supporting you through not snagging that promotion at work? That must've been a bit of a hit to your ego to begin with, and now for her to say that she resents you because it ruins her plans? Just wow, three cheers for support. Also, you can work your buns off, but you cannot control who your boss chooses for said promotion.

Weight.. Okay, so you can stand to get a little healthier. That's something that you can work on, but it's also of benefit to you, not just her. 

You will always have to use your CPAP machine, but I think they make much smaller, quieter ones now. Might be worth checking out, and if not, I personally think that your health trumps the fact that she's not a fan of the machine.

I'm sorry, but I think these are just bogus excuses on your wife's part.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Tron said:


> Then ask her is she wants an open marriage, a sexual marriage or a divorce? Then give her 3 days to make a decision.
> 
> It is high time for her to **** or get off the pot.



I have asked my spouse for an open marriage or a divorce. It shook him up for a bit but I didn't follow thru so the plan failed. I understand you love your family-- So be that family man BUT also work on yourself. Do what makes you feel good and get in the best shape you can (it's your health). She will see this and wonder what's going on. If she still refuses intimacy talk seriously about an open marriage.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP: same old, same old. It is obvious that you are not going to do anything at all other than complain, so why not accept that from now on for the rest of your life you're going to be celibate.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Tron said:


> I find her arguments laughable. And I don't know how you allow yourself to be twisted around like a pretzel, but oh well. Time to put your foot down.
> 
> Flat out tell her that sex is an important NEED and you aren't ashamed of that at all. That is how God made men and you will have it with her or someone else, if she is unwilling. Her lack of sexual engagement and intimacy isn't acceptable to you and shows you how little she really cares for you and your emotional and physical well-being.
> 
> ...


I agree with this above ^^^

Also, look up the term "gas lighting", as it seems that is what your wife is doing to you when she deflects the fault back on you. When I was with my former husband, who cut off sex for awhile, but nowhere near as long as your wife has, I approached him and told him that we needed to talk about the sexual part of our relationship. I told him this: "I understand that your drive is much lower than mine, and that you don't feel the need to engage in sexual activities very often, but it's something that I need, and you're the only person that I can get it from." I also told him that if he wasn't interested in a sexual relationship with me, would he be good with me finding it elsewhere. The answer was no. I then asked him about an open marriage, and the answer was no to that too. Then I told him that if this was it, then he needed to step up to the plate. It ended up not working out anyways, and yes, sex was one of the downfalls. I'm now in a relationship with someone with the same drive as me, and I'm signing divorce papers this week. Things are much more even-keel in my world, not just because of the awesome sex, but also because I'm happier in general, and more grounded. 

You need to speak up to your wife, and tell her in no uncertain terms what you need from her. If she's unwilling to even try, she needs to know that it's a deal breaker and that you'll be pursuing separation and 50/50 custody. Let her know that enough is enough, and that you won't be living like this any longer.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

@Maxtro you are going to have to do everything you can to work on her self confidence and help her improve that.

As for sex, this is what you are going to be dealing with:

A) She sees herself as completely undesirable, therefore the only reason you want sex is just to use her sexually.

B) The more you desire her the more arbitrary she will claim your urges are and feel even more upset as your arousal has perhaps become offensive to her. 

C) If you tell her that you love her and find her attractive she will insist you are only trying to manipulate her for sex.

As her self confidence improves so will A), B), and C).

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Ursula said:


> So, it's all about her wants and needs then? What about supporting you through not snagging that promotion at work?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I think these are just bogus excuses on your wife's part.


It's not so much that. She is upset about the promotion because she doesn't get the opportunity to stop working and get pregnant again, continuing whatever you call this relationship she has with their current child. That's the last thing he needs. As soon as she said that, he should have been on the phone with a urologist, scheduling a vasectomy.

I can just imagine his wife and two kids sleeping together in the master bedroom because they need the bigger room. Meanwhile, he'll be sleeping on a twin bed somewhere else in the house. 

Codependency has to be right up there with narcissism as the most undesireable psychological human traits.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maxtro said:


> “So All this conversation and talk is about how you feel like you’re not getting enough sex?” [...] She said she wouldn’t be able to enjoy sex because of her physical appearance and has become shy about even letting me see her undressed. [...] She told me that we’re wired differently and that she can’t do that.


Oh dear... it looks like you've married my wife... I have bad news for you. You were indeed a sperm donor and now that she can't have what she wants (second child) your are surplus to her requirements. She hates who you are. That is very clear. Whatever you do, she won't come back to you because she has lost all her respect for you and she doesn't desire you. This is probably what you don't want to hear, but come to terms with it quickly, pack your bags and go. Don't spend another 20 years of your life being a puppy waiting for pity sex when she feels like. I speak from personal experience. Good luck!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I’ll say it again —

Divorce.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

So you've decided to wait her out. Eventually her desire will spontaneously ignite, right? Believe me when I say she will outlast you to a degree you never expected. Understand this: Her intention is to _never have sex with you again for the rest of her life_.

If you think you can live like that from now on, then have at it. If not, you need to shake things up right now. At the very least, float the idea of divorce. Start discussing living arrangements and logistics.


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## Knips (May 23, 2017)

Divorce and go dating and bang until you're nuts will turn blue...


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Bait, Switch, Repeat....


I would remove the word "sex" from your discussions with her. Since she is aptly gaslighting you, and triggering with the word sex anyway. You need to start throwing "love" instead. Because, you are not getting any. Pecks on the cheeks are what a long lost friend does at the airport...Not a friggin' wife. lol

Until you start the 180 and cut her off from her perch, you are stuck in celibacy. Go to gym, get fit...It is easier than it looks. And you will find more "like minded" people to be around.

Finally, when other women start coming around and begin the "peacock" dance...Your wife should notice. Most do. This is not an invitation to cheat, just to prove that you ARE desirable. If she doesn't fight to get you back....You have your answer. You need to leave her and start dating women who value closeness, affection and touch. The sex will be a bonus. 

Also, when doing the 180.. You need to leave her to do most of the chores in the household. If you don't matter THAT much in her life, then she needs to understand that without you, she WILL be doing the care taking by herself....


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## LTCNurse (Feb 5, 2018)

OP, I'm a woman and I think she is deflecting onto you. She is an adult and knows that sex takes place in a marriage and is an important part of a marriage to both a man AND a woman. For her to not even acknowledge that means she is full of sh*t. 

I can't believe she actually told you she doesn't sleep in the master bedroom because of the ugly furniture, lol. Move that ugly furniture into the baby's room then.0 Also, someone else mentioned that CPAPS are much smaller and only have nasal prongs and not an actual mask over the face. Check that out. You have had a cpap for 10 years, that's nothing new. 

There is something wrong with her that will follow her into any other relationship she has in the future. There is a fundamental error in her thinking about sex/marriage/ability to be both a Mother and a Wife. I am doubtful that counseling is going to be a quick fix for her and she doesn't appear willing to go. I understand that she feels like you are only after sex if you pursue her. That's why you have to stop pursuing and thinking this is going to get better. You need to make a plan and act on it even if she isn't interested in your plan. What do YOU want? Personally...I would be done because of her deflection and coldness. No wife would ever withhold sex from her non abusive husband for 2 years if not for a serious personal issue. File for divorce while she has a job. Even if you have gained weight, there is a husband and wife bonding that still makes that spouse attractive for you. I don't think she's cheating, I think she has a serious issue. I wouldn't bring it up to her but I am guessing there is sexual abuse oro assault in her past.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Listen to @LTCNurse. I did what you are doing, but for longer. I am not better for it. You won't be either. You may not have understood these mechanisms before. You do now. You have been warned. If you choose to stay, you are choosing to remain sexless. At this point, that is on you and not on her. If you stay, that means you desire sex less than you desire to avoid the cost of divorce. Own that choice.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

She doesn't want to have sex with you. She makes up excuses so that she doesn't have to admit she only wants you there to help financially, with the house and kid, and to keep up the appearance of a decent marriage/family. You're too weak to tell her that she either rediscovers her desire to have sex or you'll leave and to then follow through, so enjoy your sexless marriage.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Steve2.0 said:


> Oh, and stop waiting on her to improve yourself.
> Go to the gym, loose that fat and pack on muscle. She will react to your changes.


^^this^^

Your W will wonder what you are up to. Leave the home groomed and feeling good. Further, staying in a sexless marriage is up to you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

More likely, she will react when he stops kissing her rear end. Right now, she gets off on having him provide for her with her having to give up little or nothing in return. It's the power thing and/or the validation that she is still desirable that floats her boat. She'll just keep stringing him along, tossing out different excuses, for as long as he'll take it.

OTOH, if he focuses on himself and his child, and doesn't sweat whether she screws him or not, he's sending her a powerful message that he doesn't need her and can manage a family as well as she can. He's stating that he can make himself happy, his child happy, and who cares about her. I can almost promise that her spending a few nights alone will make her reconsider her position.

I know, because I was that guy. I had the good job that meant my ex didn't have to work (she worked for spending money, but contributed nothing to family finances). There were just other excuses - making an issue of sex was selfish and immature, I had gained weight (which wound up being just another excuse), etc. Taking the power away from her and letting her be lonely spurred her to at least try. Had I not detached from her, I would not have even gotten that.

OP, you absolutely MUST regain your self-respect and refuse to tolerate this treatment. Do your own thing and check out from her. If she bugs you to get a reaction or some attention, walk away and don't take the bait. Make sure she knows you are over her as she is, and let her figure out what she needs to do to maintain your marriage (if she cares to put in the effort).



Steve2.0 said:


> Oh, and stop waiting on her to improve yourself.
> Go to the gym, loose that fat and pack on muscle. She will react to your changes.


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

I'm changing my vote. It's time to stop the charade. Your wife has it all figured out and her plans are completely self centered. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with her. She's clearly repulsed by you. The attraction is simply a product of being denied and responding to pheromones. I'd be more concerned about her wanting to have sex because it's clear that she wants another child so that she can be a stay at home mom. 

If you decide to divorce realize that she is going to try and get as much support as she can from you. 

BTW, how is your relationship with your child? Is it respectful?


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