# Thoughts on a meme



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Hello,
Sorry to barge in!
I was curious as to our opinion on this meme:
https://steemkr.com/anime/@yokoy/take-her-to-the-moon-for-me-50dbdfa16b958


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

In a nut shell... Monkey Branching 

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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Yeah, monkey branching


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What a difference in views. The woman doesn't want to leave. The guy is happy to be relieved of his burden. Of course, he'll expect her to be available when and if he ever gets there. He'll be generous enough to thank the guy for taking care of her for him.

He's a moron if only because he wears sandals to climb a ladder.


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## .339971 (Sep 12, 2019)

She seems to be more attached than he is and he's all too happy to see her leave.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> What a difference in views. The woman doesn't want to leave. The guy is happy to be relieved of his burden. Of course, he'll expect her to be available when and if he ever gets there. He'll be generous enough to thank the guy for taking care of her for him.
> 
> He's a moron if only because he wears sandals to climb a ladder.


Good catch on the sandals. Good attention to details.

The young man is happy to be relieved of the burden because he was scared poopless that he might weaken and might drop his prized lover (and himself, of course).

Both were foolish in trying to climb such a ladder: With no safety climbing straps, no leather gloves, no carry-along portable seats to rest, no food and water for such a long journey.

And, no pre-training for such a climb.

Love knows no bounds, no heights, it seems.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Whose idea was it to climb the ladder....hers (probably)

Who begrudgedly said yes to make the other “happy”.....him (probably)

Who faltered first due to lack of upper body strength....her (definitely)

Who jettisoned a backpack of supplies to accommodate the other....him (of course)

Who, when the first opportunity arose, bailed on the hardship and took the easy way up.....her (obviously)

Who sacrificed everything for the other and got zero in return....him (sadly)

This is a memetic if a typical modern woman and a Mr. NiceGuy.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I was rather hoping some women might reply too....


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> I was rather hoping some women might reply too....


Ahem. What am I, chopped liver?

Besides, you posted this in the Ladies Lounge - that's like waving a red flag in front of the bulls.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

They began a journey together, they realized she would not make it and he would not leave her behind, unexpected assistance was offered and only one could take it, they realized the levity, they accepted the best solution for them both, they were sad to part but to me the value of chivalry stands with the stronger willingly protecting the weaker while hopes are reached for.

I had to actually look up monkey-branching... I would never have seen that in this.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

A ladder goes up and down - they could always have descended the ladder together.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> I was rather hoping some women might reply too....


I have no clue what you want us to say or think? I thought it was a weird comic strip that had some underlying message but the message is so odd that I cannot even guess what the artist was trying to say.

Is it just another “women are so weak and don’t understand that men always carry them” message, then ok whatever, weirdo artist.

But for me personally, I thought to myself nah, she would never leave that cute brown boy for the boring white boy. She and the brown boy should have just pulled the white boy out of the space ship and hijacked it, and then left him on the ladder. They could always go drop someone off on the moon and then one of them could go back to pick him up. The end, everyone is happy.

Like I said, that’s just me. So I’m sure that’s not what the artist was trying to say.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I’m a woman. She obviously doesn’t want to leave him but knows it’s the best solution. The look on his face at the end is relief that both are safe and will reunite soon.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have no clue what you want us to say or think? I thought it was a weird comic strip that had some underlying message but the message is so odd that I cannot even guess what the artist was trying to say.
> 
> Is it just another “women are so weak and don’t understand that men always carry them” message, then ok whatever, weirdo artist.
> 
> ...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> A ladder goes up and down - they could always have descended the ladder together.


Sorry! I am very sure that you are not chopped liver, but a very nice lady  



Faithful Wife said:


> I have no clue what you want us to say or think? I thought it was a weird comic strip that had some underlying message but the message is so odd that I cannot even guess what the artist was trying to say.
> 
> Is it just another “women are so weak and don’t understand that men always carry them” message, then ok whatever, weirdo artist.
> 
> ...





Not said:


> I’m a woman. She obviously doesn’t want to leave him but knows it’s the best solution. The look on his face at the end is relief that both are safe and will reunite soon.


My reason for asking was it seemed to cause a divide, with many women finding it inspirational and many Indian men seeming to find it aspirational, with USA and UK men such as myself thinking it a pile of poo.

But, so many women seemed to find it inspiring, that I questioned myself and my impression. 

I see it as treating the woman like a dumb child, who has a passive desire and all will and action to make it happen is up to the men. My thought was that far from being brave and feminist, it is actually rather old fashioned. Putting the woman first is not a new idea. This suggests she is a passive object.

I did wonder which way the more cynical residents of TAM would see it!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I view it as the way things were in the past. Something I often heard growing up many decades ago? “If it was that easy to do then we’d get a girl to do it”. The message sent to girls of my generation? Men are strong. Women are weak. Nope. Not this girl. 

PS
I didn’t notice the boy was supposed to be brown but I agree with FW that he’s cute.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have no clue what you want us to say or think? I thought it was a weird comic strip that had some underlying message but the message is so odd that I cannot even guess what the artist was trying to say.
> 
> Is it just another “women are so weak and don’t understand that men always carry them” message, then ok whatever, weirdo artist.
> 
> ...



I could be wrong, I think it is meant to inspire with the idea that if men were just more like that and saw women in that way, it would be great! I confess, I personally found it horrible, but most women who like it take it that way and approve. 

I see your avatar! I do not think it is for you!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Openminded said:


> I view it as the way things were in the past. Something I often heard growing up many decades ago? “If it was that easy to do then we’d get a girl to do it”. The message sent to girls of my generation? Men are strong. Women are weak. Nope. Not this girl.
> 
> PS
> I didn’t notice the boy was supposed to be brown but I agree with FW that he’s cute.


AND he just hulked her up a ladder. Yum!

Also let’s see here....since there is literally a ladder to the moon, and spaceships that can hover with no air disturbance...this land clearly is full of plenty of whimsy and magic.

So it can be assume (by me at least) that there will be no problem for another spaceship to come right back and pick up the pilot.

Being a true gentleman, maybe he isn’t the one who suggested it.

“Oh dear you are both in bad physical shape. Please take my spaceship and get yourselves to the moon safely. I’ll call a Space Uber and be right behind you”.

The couple easily drive to safety because these spaceships are so advanced anyone can drive them. They are our cars now. Space Uber only took 5 minutes to pick up the pilot.

The couple and the gentleman pilot meet up on the moon and have wine together later with all their friends. The end.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> I could be wrong, I think it is meant to inspire with the idea that if men were just more like that and saw women in that way, it would be great! I confess, I personally found it horrible, but most women who like it take it that way and approve.
> 
> I see your avatar! I do not think it is for you!


My avatar is Wonder Woman carrying Archie to her love nest. Or maybe she just rescued him from something.

For years my avatar here was Veronica kissing Archie. Then one day I saw this art, the WW and Archie avatar I have now. It was so cute to me I took the picture just to use it here. It’s like an inside joke with myself.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I’m the literal type and didn’t read as much into this. The two decided to take a journey, she physically couldn’t make it so now they have a problem. Someone else zooming by saw the predicament and offered help. I thought the part where she was all teared up about leaving was a tad dramatic but whatever lol! I didn’t notice the skin colors. I only saw people. 

Now that I think about I do think she was a little annoying with the theatrics but they did have a problem that needed a solution.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Not said:


> I’m the literal type and didn’t read as much into this. The two decided to take a journey, she physically couldn’t make it so now they have a problem. Someone else zooming by saw the predicament and offered help. I thought the part where she was all teared up about leaving was a tad dramatic but whatever lol! I didn’t notice the skin colors. I only saw people.
> 
> Now that I think about I do think she was a little annoying with the theatrics but they did have a problem that needed a solution.


I must say, that is literal. I am very much not like that, so I am glad you are around to ground me!

I took the moon to represent happiness. They were working to get there together, it being a struggle he gave up his baggage (which I assume to be hobbies, interests social circle etc). As the route up became harder, she was too tired, so he had to carry her up. Eventually another man came along who could offer her an easy route to that happiness (represented by the moon), and while he missed her he and she was sad to lose him, he knew it was all for the best. 

The bit that annoyed me as an old fashioned man was the implication that men do not normally love women and this morality tale would teach us. The second objection was more progressive, that is depicts the woman purely as a passive object of experience with no agency of her own. 

What shocked me was how many women in the non-TAM world thought it was deep and beautiful!


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

You could also look at it that in the third panel, when she was having trouble, he took it upon himself to fix it instead of realizing she didn’t have the same stamina and just needed to catch her breath. By the fifth panel he is angry and resentful about it and then shocked when someone else comes and makes life easier for her without being told what a burden she is. 

It is not deep and beautiful, it is sad. The person that takes on the heaviest load and thinks they are moving the couple forward is sometimes doing the most damage. 

If this were my cartoon it would be me in the ladder with my XH on back. But he would be made to leave his freaking backpack with me before getting on that ship.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Bluesclues said:


> You could also look at it that in the third panel, when she was having trouble, he took it upon himself to fix it instead of realizing she didn’t have the same stamina and just needed to catch her breath. By the fifth panel he is angry and resentful about it and then shocked when someone else comes and makes life easier for her without being told what a burden she is.
> 
> It is not deep and beautiful, it is sad. The person that takes on the heaviest load and thinks they are moving the couple forward is sometimes doing the most damage.
> 
> If this were my cartoon it would be me in the ladder with my XH on back. But he would be made to leave his freaking backpack with me before getting on that ship.


This thread does give me faith in TAM.

Also, I see we are often reading it differently. I suspect it was drawn my a man who hates men, idolises women as passive objects and thinks himslef a guru. And is actually an arse. Perhaps we are both reading past experience into it.

I did not see him as angry in the fifth, merely exhausted, i.e. he does not want a woman who is a teammate not a burden. The final panel shows him smile as another man takes her to the moon.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, she looked none too happy to be shuffled off.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, she looked none too happy to be shuffled off.


My reading of it was that it was showing that she was sad to leave this man behind who had sacrificed so much, but they knew it was for the best. She was shuffled off, selflessly, but I agree it showed no agency.

It does seem that for many UK/US women out there, this seems aspirational. The TAM women seem to have a more male eye for it! I am not sure what to make of that


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, she looked none too happy to be shuffled off.


Well unfortunately, we don't get to see what she is like after this moment, having all the creature comforts and a man who is more capable... 

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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Luminous said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> > Well, she looked none too happy to be shuffled off.
> ...


Meh. He didn’t hulk her up a ladder. I don’t see how he is more capable. The spaceship can clearly be driven by anyone whereas obviously hulking someone up a ladder like the brown boy did still requires brute strength. We have no clue if the driver of the space car has that same strength. We did see the brown boy’s strength, however.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Meh. He didn’t hulk her up a ladder. I don’t see how he is more capable. The spaceship can clearly be driven by anyone whereas obviously hulking someone up a ladder like the brown boy did still requires brute strength. We have no clue if the driver of the space car has that same strength. We did see the brown boy’s strength, however.


I had missed the racial aspect too. I am from the UK and we tend to be slightly more racially insensitive (as in oblivious), but I am glad it has been brought up.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I was thinking they started with what they both had on hand, and didn't have the fortitude to hang in there while they jointly worked towards the first upcoming break which may have been a three seater space Uber, or a 7-11 Travel Center in the next cloud cover. 

She opportunisticly took the first more comfortable "out" that came along.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I was thinking they started with what they both had on hand, and didn't have the fortitude to hang in there while they jointly worked towards the first upcoming break which may have been a three seater space Uber, or a 7-11 Travel Center in the next cloud cover.
> 
> She opportunisticly took the first more comfortable "out" that came along.


So that's why she was smiling so broadly and giving her boyfriend the finger. I have seen the light.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> So that's why she was smiling so broadly and giving her boyfriend the finger. I have seen the light.


I agree.

*HE* was smiling when he handed her off to the astronaut. SHE was crying.

Sometimes people just see what they want to see.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I think that the ladder symbolizes married life and it’s journey. 
There should have been another picture where she’s the one who is supporting/carrying him. 
In the end she doesn’t want to keep going as they are and reluctantly leaves him. He is smiling because he wants her to be happy and knows that he isn’t capable of doing this. 
In my opinion the last picture is of the sun and it’s telling us that he had gotten to the moon but still wanted more. 
Or I could be wrong.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

-Its a piece supporting Imperialism by white people. Don't worry if you can't get there brown people, give your women to us and us whiteys and our superior technology will get them to the moon.

-Or its a pro-Cuckold piece. Can't get your woman to the "moon"? Bring in another guy and he'll get her there. 



But seriously as others have said its so open to interpretation. Can be taken almost anyway you want to. Interesting how our life experiences influence how we see it though.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> So that's why she was smiling so broadly and giving her boyfriend the finger. I have seen the light.


I have to admit I didn't look that closely to see her tearing up.

My bad.:frown2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Durn, I also didn't notice any ethnic differences between the two. 
Time for more coffee I suppose.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> I think that the ladder symbolizes married life and it’s journey.
> There should have been another picture where she’s the one who is supporting/carrying him.
> In the end she doesn’t want to keep going as they are and reluctantly leaves him. He is smiling because he wants her to be happy and knows that he isn’t capable of doing this.
> In my opinion the last picture is of the sun and it’s telling us that he had gotten to the moon but still wanted more.
> Or I could be wrong.


Hey the guy in the spaceship could be a psycho and she was never seen again!

Maybe the guy trudging on the ladder was an early Bill Gates or Mark Wahlberg paying dues early on then hit it big.

Then the MEME becomes a story, which becomes a book, which is marketed on TAM.

We may never know. :smile2:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Hypergamy


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

So here's what happened.

He was like 'hey let's go climb this latter to get to better things' (marriage, kids, careers)
So, she was like ' that's a great idea!' 

After a while, she drags ass, starts moaning and complaining, so he is like 'jump on, I can carry us both!' 

Eventually, it wears him down because she is no longer that small thing he started with! She has somehow grown...maybe too many happy meals while camped on his back...who knows? Plus, get this she is still complaining! Saying he is going to slow and that he is a moron for wearing sandals while trying to climb to the top....

Finally, dude with space shuttle comes by and see his camper (wife). Hes like 'hey dude you look tired, want me to take this whale off your back' (This could either be your divorce lawyer or the AP who likes hauling in whales). Also, she is crying probably cause shuttle dude just called her a whale...or something else. Who the hell knows?

So latter dude is like 'Yea take her, she is killing me!!' Then he goes up the ladder free of baggage and happy.

Off they go.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Meh. He didn’t hulk her up a ladder. I don’t see how he is more capable. The spaceship can clearly be driven by anyone whereas obviously hulking someone up a ladder like the brown boy did still requires brute strength. We have no clue if the driver of the space car has that same strength. We did see the brown boy’s strength, however.


I don't think that the guy on the ladder is more capable then then one driving the space craft. The one on the ladder is using his brawn. The on in the spacecraft is using his intelligence. It takes a lot to learn to fly a space craft.

I also do not think that race (or skin tone) has anything to do with the moral of this story.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I agree.
> 
> *HE* was smiling when he handed her off to the astronaut. SHE was crying.
> 
> Sometimes people just see what they want to see.


I think this is the point, whether the author meant it or not. People see what they want to see to verify their own person view of male/female relationships.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Meh. He didn’t hulk her up a ladder. I don’t see how he is more capable. The spaceship can clearly be driven by anyone whereas obviously hulking someone up a ladder like the brown boy did still requires brute strength. We have no clue if the driver of the space car has that same strength. We did see the brown boy’s strength, however.
> ...


In this scenario where there is literally a ladder to the moon, and this spaceship can hover with no air disturbance around it, these things indicate that this is a fantasy world. Therefore, I don’t see any reason to assume there is anything that difficult about driving this spaceship. It looks easy as driving a car and there are no indications otherwise. If they live in such a fantasy world, the normal limits of space travel don’t apply, which is apparent in the few scenes we have of the ship. If normal limits did apply, the ship could not have gotten that close to the ladder or had its shield lifted up without killing all 3 of them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> In this scenario where there is literally a ladder to the moon, and this spaceship can hover with no air disturbance around it, these things indicate that this is a fantasy world. Therefore, I don’t see any reason to assume there is anything that difficult about driving this spaceship. It looks easy as driving a car and there are no indications otherwise. If they live in such a fantasy world, the normal limits of space travel don’t apply, which is apparent in the few scenes we have of the ship. If normal limits did apply, the ship could not have gotten that close to the ladder or had its shield lifted up without killing all 3 of them.


We all see this from our own view point. That's very obvious from all the posts on this thread. You'd think that each of us is looking at a very different cartoon sequence.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out why some people consider this aspirational or inspirational. All it illustrates to me is a need for better planning.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> My reason for asking was it seemed to cause a divide, with many women finding it inspirational and many Indian men seeming to find it aspirational, with USA and UK men such as myself thinking it a pile of poo.


I didn’t even realize that the men were of different nationalities until that was pointed out and I went back and checked. I guess that means that skin colour isn’t something that I tend to see, but what’s within the person instead. Regarding the cartoon, I felt sorry for them all. I also wondered how in the world a spaceship could hover beside a ladder like that.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out why some people consider this aspirational or inspirational. All it illustrates to me is a need for better planning.


The people who have liked it have typically been women who see it as a message to men on how to understand women and how to be better men. 

Frankly, if men thought that women should see men as passive, helpless children for whom they should sacrifice everything, I would be mortified.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Mr The Other said:


> The people who have liked it have typically been women who see it as a message to men on how to understand women and how to be better men.
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, if men thought that women should see men as passive, helpless children for whom they should sacrifice everything, I would be mortified.


Hence the term 'White Knight' 

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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Rule # 1: cardio.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Good thread, by the way. Interesting to read the different perspectives.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Luminous said:


> Hence the term 'White Knight'
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Indeed.

While a man being responsible for a woman's happiness is clearly unfair and bad on him, it is a even worse on the woman and turns human being into a vegatable.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> Good thread, by the way. Interesting to read the different perspectives.


That has been a real eye opener for me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> *The people who have liked it* have typically been women who see it as a message to men on how to understand women and how to be better men.


Where are you seeing these other responses?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

If you look carefully at the top of the page there is a title that tells you all you need to know about the cartoon. "Take her to the moon for me"


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Where are you seeing these other responses?


Quora and Facebook.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

On the surface, it could be viewed as old-school, selfless, and romantic. Commencing the journey together, they have a shared dream. Along the way, despite his sacrifices and best efforts to support their endeavor, he realizes they won't be able to reach the moon together. Selflessly, he still wants her to achieve the experience - even without him. With the help of another, he can support this to happen. She's sad to part; he's happy in knowing this is something he could provide her.

Viewed through a different lens, which is completely left-field from the above, the climb to the top is incredibly difficult to achieve, as represented through the length of the ladder to the moon. Even with determination and sacrifice, the availability of resources makes the difference. The pilot was able to readily get to the moon as he had the resources available to him, okay, and likely some sacrifice and determination of his own, too. Utilizing his capital, the pilot provided her with the opportunity towards social mobility. 

And yet another view, is how seemingly unempowered the woman is throughout the illustrated narrative; aside from showing up and demonstrating a small amount of effort at the start. To make it a little more cynical (why not, eh?), she could symbolize how the dominant view of physical beauty, versus effort, is rewarded.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> If you look carefully at the top of the page there is a title that tells you all you need to know about the cartoon. "Take her to the moon for me"


Why is it so romantic to take this lady to the moon? What will she do once she reaches the moon? She will either freeze to death or fry depending which side she is on, plus there is no drinkable water. I don't think she thought this through... The ladder dude and space dude however may have a covert pact to off her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My take:

Guy 1 is obviously Lando Calrissian. He's like "hey, here's a ladder going up to Bespin here, I'm going to hike up and run the city."

The girl is clearly Leia, who's all like "Hey Lando, can I come to Bespin with you?" And then she gets tired and goes "Lando, FFS, I'm a princess and we don't sweat. Carry me up there so I can you know, rule Bespin and not be sweaty and gross."

And Lando now is in a big quandary, until Luke comes by and is all like "Leia, stop screwing around with Lando, we gotta go to Endor and blow up the Death Star." And Lando is all like "ya Luke, take her off my hands for me, I gotta get to Bespin and do my thing." And so off they go.

My only question is what they are walking around on in the first frame, because Bespin was a gas giant.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Marduk said:


> My take:
> 
> Guy 1 is obviously Lando Calrissian. He's like "hey, here's a ladder going up to Bespin here, I'm going to hike up and run the city."
> 
> ...


You had me up till guy 2 was Luke. Its gotta be Han. He's in the Falcon. Taking her to go make some little Skywalkers. Sorry Lando.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why is it so romantic to take this lady to the moon? What will she do once she reaches the moon? She will either freeze to death or fry depending which side she is on, plus there is no drinkable water. I don't think she thought this through... The ladder dude and space dude however may have a covert pact to off her.


Maybe they were going to get cheese?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> On the surface, it could be viewed as old-school, selfless, and romantic. Commencing the journey together, they have a shared dream. Along the way, despite his sacrifices and best efforts to support their endeavor, he realizes they won't be able to reach the moon together. Selflessly, he still wants her to achieve the experience - even without him. With the help of another, he can support this to happen. She's sad to part; he's happy in knowing this is something he could provide her.
> 
> Viewed through a different lens, which is completely left-field from the above, the climb to the top is incredibly difficult to achieve, as represented through the length of the ladder to the moon. Even with determination and sacrifice, the availability of resources makes the difference. The pilot was able to readily get to the moon as he had the resources available to him, okay, and likely some sacrifice and determination of his own, too. Utilizing his capital, the pilot provided her with the opportunity towards social mobility.
> 
> And yet another view, *is how seemingly unempowered the woman is throughout the illustrated narrative; aside from showing up and demonstrating a small amount of effort at the start. To make it a little more cynical (why not, eh?), she could symbolize how the dominant view of physical beauty, versus effort, is rewarded.*


This final view is how I saw it, and why I found it poisonous. My experience on any forum was that seeing it this way was seen by a surprisingly large majority of women as being eiher misogynist (i.e. we should not care about women) or that I did not understand it as I was simple minded. For my own peace of mind, TAM has, in contrast, been great on this


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why is it so romantic to take this lady to the moon? What will she do once she reaches the moon?


She'll likely have to make him a sandwich and do his damned laundry.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> The people who have liked it have typically been women who see it as a message to men on how to understand women....


Ironically true. But it's not teaching what they think it's teaching.



Mr The Other said:


> .....and how to be better men.


False.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

OnTheFly said:


> Ironically true. But it's not teaching what they think it's teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> False.


I do not like it, I assume you do not. I speaking from the perspective of people who do like it.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it so romantic to take this lady to the moon? What will she do once she reaches the moon?
> ...


She's a keeper then 🙂


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> She's a keeper then 🙂


Laughing 😂


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why is it so romantic to take this lady to the moon? What will she do once she reaches the moon? She will either freeze to death or fry depending which side she is on, plus there is no drinkable water. I don't think she thought this through... The ladder dude and space dude however may have a covert pact to off her.


And if she's from the moon, from a lunar colony there then she's just trying to get a ride home and is crying because she's sad she has to leave him climbing alone because the space Uber isn't a three seater.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> This final view is how I saw it, and why I found it poisonous. My experience on any forum was that seeing it this way was seen by a surprisingly large majority of women as being eiher misogynist (i.e. we should not care about women) or that I did not understand it as I was simple minded. For my own peace of mind, TAM has, in contrast, been great on this


By suggesting this artwork (as you are) does _not_ represent that women can, and do, have their own power, status, make their own decisions, and perhaps be non-conformist, I'm puzzled how the connection is then drawn to misogyny.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Furthermore, the characters do have different skin tones. Given the artwork is posted (unsure if created) by a young, well-educated and creative, Indonesian man, it would be interesting to understand his take on the artwork. Whether simply intended as a romantic gesture, or something else.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> By suggesting this artwork (as you are) does _not_ represent that women can, and do, have their own power, status, make their own decisions, and perhaps be non-conformist, I'm puzzled how the connection is then drawn to misogyny.


Quite! I was so exasperated that I started a thread about it on TAM!  

The accusation were either that I did not understand the symbolism as men are literaral minded, or that I was saying women should not be loved.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Part II - https://www.awesomeinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/broken-ladder-fire.jpg


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> Part II - https://www.awesomeinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/broken-ladder-fire.jpg


Yes!
That annoys me too!  
THe point is obvious enough, we can be short sighted and not see the bigger situation, making ourselves miserable 
But, it offers the feeling of wisdom and chance to nod sagely with no insight into when we actually act like that ourselves.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Oft times in threads regarding infidelity or reconciliation, the advice to ignore what they say and focus on their actions is given.

Try doing it here too.

Ignore the skin tones, the perceived smiles or tears and zero in on her and (to a lesser extent) his actions. 

Distill it down to the basic components.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> Yes!
> That annoys me too!
> THe point is obvious enough, we can be short sighted and not see the bigger situation, making ourselves miserable
> But, it offers the feeling of wisdom and chance to nod sagely with no insight into when we actually act like that ourselves.


I see two views in this one... the one that you mentioned about not seeing the bigger situation, the other being around taking care of basic needs first. I suppose, the Maslow theory. Perhaps he was unable to consider getting to the top of the ladder as his basic needs (warmth, in this instance) took priority. With a lack of available resources, he did not have the luxury of experiencing other options. Anyway, I am likely digressing at this point.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The best option would have been for them to descend the ladder and book a ride on a spaceship together. The choice for her to go ahead with another man was just asking for trouble.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> I see two views in this one... the one that you mentioned about not seeing the bigger situation, the other being around taking care of basic needs first. I suppose, the Maslow theory. Perhaps he was unable to consider getting to the top of the ladder as his basic needs (warmth, in this instance) took priority. With a lack of available resources, he did not have the luxury of experiencing other options. Anyway, I am likely digressing at this point.


True.

Then I am still grumpy! Having lived in some wealthy towns, I met people who thought the reason they bought rather than rented their financial digs and bought in bulk was not that they had readily available cash, but were much smarter.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Be the guy in the spaceship.


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