# I Feel So Inconsequential



## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

So things really aren't going well with my marriage and after reading many posts here I really feel divorce is my only option for things to ever come right. He's not going to change. He's never going to stay the loving, supportive, passionate man that he seems to be able to switch on and off whenever I threaten to leave. Despite telling me daily that he loves me with all his heart, my feelings are never considered, my needs always come last. He made the effort last night to say that he knows he's been distant lately and that he's been neglecting me. He apologised, then promptly gave me a goodnight kiss and rolled over to go to sleep, this after having spent about an hour talking about arbitrary stuff. I explained to him how I've been feeling unwanted and he just said it's not true, that he still finds me attractive and loves me very much. I couldn't take lying there while he just went to sleep so went and sat in the lounge. For a change he did make the effort to come and sit by me, but never sat a word. Just sat and watched tv while I sat there crying. After the movie he asked if I was coming to bed, when I said no he got up, gave me a kiss and went to bed. This morning he's chatting and carrying on like everything's fine. I need a man's opinion please. Can men really change or do I only have two options: Get over needing love, affection, support etc and just live with it or divorce?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

It saddens me that you're feeling this way. I'm not a man, but I'm wondering why you're putting the responsibility for your happiness on him. You have just as much or more potential for change as him. If you're unhappy, make changes in you and the relationship will change, too. It's not fair to put it on him like this.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I couldn't quite tell from your post what exactly is wrong. You sound unhappy but didn't give details. What does he do that makes you feel so inconsequential? Does he ignore you? belittle you? makes major decisions without you? plan activities without you? not appreciate you? are you depressed?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Acknowledging a problem but not offering solutions and taking action means nothing has really happened. It's one thing to take ownership for not being there, taking your spouse for granted, neglecting their needs, and it's another to actually DO something about it.

What is his plan? A kiss and a pat on the shoulder should make it better? 

Give him a couple of weeks. See if he makes any efforts to change. If he doesn't then you have your answer. You will have to take the reigns here and get to a happy place on your own, and maybe that's without him in the picture.

I would also like to add that you have a responsiblity to him to provide the roadmap for what you want to see. If he doesn't know what you want, it's not going to happen.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I have to admit that as a guy, I can hear the pain in your voice but I'm not really sure what I would do if I were him. Do I risk trying to touch you passionately or would that make you feel worse? Do I say something and just keep digging the hole I'm in deeper? Do I try to stay strong and show you support through my strength, or will I appear uninvolved? Etc.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Acknowledging a problem but not offering solutions and taking action means nothing has really happened. It's one thing to take ownership for not being there, taking your spouse for granted, neglecting their needs, and it's another to actually DO something about it.
> 
> What is his plan? A kiss and a pat on the shoulder should make it better?
> 
> ...


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Acorn said:


> I have to admit that as a guy, I can hear the pain in your voice but I'm not really sure what I would do if I were him. Do I risk trying to touch you passionately or would that make you feel worse? Do I say something and just keep digging the hole I'm in deeper? Do I try to stay strong and show you support through my strength, or will I appear uninvolved? Etc.


SEE!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> He made the effort last night to say that he knows he's been distant lately and that he's been neglecting me. He apologised, then promptly gave me a goodnight kiss and rolled over to go to sleep, this after having spent about an hour talking about arbitrary stuff.


Sounds to me that you felt sexually rejected that he rolled over? Have you tried initiating? Touch him sexually when you are in bed and wanting that kind of intimacy?

In my marriage, spending a whole hour "talking about arbitrary stuff" meets emotional needs for me (and warms me up to him)


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Acorn said:


> I have to admit that as a guy, I can hear the pain in your voice but I'm not really sure what I would do if I were him. Do I risk trying to touch you passionately or would that make you feel worse? Do I say something and just keep digging the hole I'm in deeper? Do I try to stay strong and show you support through my strength, or will I appear uninvolved? Etc.


We've been together for 20 years, married 18. We've covered his reactions many times. He knows what I need and what upsets me. It's just too much of an effort. That's what hurts so much. It's too much of an effort. When I ask him why he says it's just stupidity on his part. He knows it's going to agrivate the situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

He says it's just too much effort to give you what you need? or are you saying it's too much effort to continually remind him?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> We've been together for 20 years, married 18. We've covered his reactions many times. He knows what I need and what upsets me. It's just too much of an effort. That's what hurts so much. It's too much of an effort. When I ask him why he says it's just stupidity on his part. He knows it's going to agrivate the situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This doesn't make sense to me. "It's too much effort" is not what is happening. "He knows (whatever he does) will aggravate the situation" is more likely the real problem. He may know what you need, and what upsets you, but he's seen that his attempts to provide those things fails often enough that he gets unwilling to try. From his shoes, he just expects that his efforts will be wasted and end in no improvement or worse, criticism from you.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> We've been together for 20 years, married 18. We've covered his reactions many times. He knows what I need and what upsets me. It's just too much of an effort. That's what hurts so much. It's too much of an effort. When I ask him why he says it's just stupidity on his part. He knows it's going to agrivate the situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For communication issues like this Marriage Help Program For Couples


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

curious2 said:


> A Bit Much said:
> 
> 
> > Acknowledging a problem but not offering solutions and taking action means nothing has really happened. It's one thing to take ownership for not being there, taking your spouse for granted, neglecting their needs, and it's another to actually DO something about it.
> ...


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> This doesn't make sense to me. "It's too much effort" is not what is happening. "He knows (whatever he does) will aggravate the situation" is more likely the real problem. He may know what you need, and what upsets you, but he's seen that his attempts to provide those things fails often enough that he gets unwilling to try. From his shoes, he just expects that his efforts will be wasted and end in no improvement or worse, criticism from you.


Not at all. When he makes the effort it diffuses the situation, but he seldom follows through and sees it through to the end. For example he'll talk things through, then say goodnight and roll over, no holding me. Other times he starts talking but when the conversation gets to heavy he just says he has nothing more to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> He says it's just too much effort to give you what you need? or are you saying it's too much effort to continually remind him?


He doesn't say it, it's what I see. Can only keep up changes, being supportive and loving for a week at a time, then slips back into old habits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Have you tried marriage counseling? Although if you're sure he KNOWS what you need and is still unwilling to meet you in the middle, I'm not sure counseling would be helpful. He has to want to love you the way that you need to be loved. It doesn't sound like he does, or he does but only sporatically.

Do you meet his needs 100% of the time? Sometimes reluctance comes from resentment.


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Sounds to me that you felt sexually rejected that he rolled over? Have you tried initiating? Touch him sexually when you are in bed and wanting that kind of intimacy?
> 
> In my marriage, spending a whole hour "talking about arbitrary stuff" meets emotional needs for me (and warms me up to him)


Gave up initiating many years ago. He was always too tired or not feeling well. Intimacy is always on his terms. Always
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Intimacy is always on his terms. Always


A one sided marriage is ... well one sided.

What's in this for you? Something is keep you on this hamster wheel of a relationship.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> Not at all. When he makes the effort it diffuses the situation, but he seldom follows through and sees it through to the end. For example he'll talk things through, then say goodnight and roll over, no holding me. Other times he starts talking but when the conversation gets to heavy he just says he has nothing more to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He didnt know you wanted him to hold you!

Maybe he was overwhelmed by the discussion and needs some time to process before he can respond. It is common for a man to be overwhelmed by deep, heavy discussions. When this happens they shut down.


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Have you tried marriage counseling? Although if you're sure he KNOWS what you need and is still unwilling to meet you in the middle, I'm not sure counseling would be helpful. He has to want to love you the way that you need to be loved. It doesn't sound like he does, or he does but only sporatically.
> 
> Do you meet his needs 100% of the time? Sometimes reluctance comes from resentment.


We tried marriage councelling. Again he made an effort for a month, then said he didn't have time to do the exersizes or attend the sessions. I fullfill all his needs, in every way, but I can't rely on him for anything. He gets sick and I have to come home and go with him to the doctor, I have an op and he waits for me in the car. Says he didn't know I'd want him to come in with me. How does that work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> We tried marriage councelling. Again he made an effort for a month, then said he didn't have time to do the exersizes or attend the sessions. I fullfill all his needs, in every way, but I can't rely on him for anything. He gets sick and I have to come home and go with him to the doctor, I have an op and he waits for me in the car. Says he didn't know I'd want him to come in with me. How does that work?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How does it work? Well it doesn't. Maybe you need to adopt his attitude. He may notice that and make permanent changes. If you've been round and round with this, it's up to you to decide when enough is enough.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> So things really aren't going well with my marriage and after reading many posts here I really feel divorce is my only option for things to ever come right. He's not going to change. He's never going to stay the loving, supportive, passionate man that he seems to be able to switch on and off whenever I threaten to leave. Despite *telling me daily that he loves me with all his heart,* my feelings are never considered, my needs always come last. He made the effort last night to say that he knows he's been distant lately and that he's been neglecting me. He apologised, then promptly gave me a goodnight kiss and rolled over to go to sleep, this after having spent about an hour talking about arbitrary stuff. I explained to him how I've been feeling unwanted and he just said it's not true, that* he still finds me attractive and loves me very much*. I couldn't take lying there while he just went to sleep so went and sat in the lounge. For a change *he did make the effort to come and sit by me,* but never sat a word. Just sat and watched tv while I sat there crying. After the movie he asked if I was coming to bed, when I said no he got up, gave me a kiss and went to bed. *This morning he's chatting and carrying on like everything's fine.* I need a man's opinion please. Can men really change or do I only have two options: Get over needing love, affection, support etc and just live with it or divorce?


I dont think this is hopeless. You seem hell bent that it is. I dont think he feels he can please you so he is just avoiding, hoping it will just go away....obviously it wont. You need to take some responsability here too. Unless you are just really done ...


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> A one sided marriage is ... well one sided.
> 
> What's in this for you? Something is keep you on this hamster wheel of a relationship.


I love him. When he makes the effort it's wonderful. Stupidly I keep hoping he'll change once and for all. I'm not saying things have to be perfect, that's not possible in any relationship, I'd just like to be happier more often than I'm miserable. I'm tired of being lonely. I just want him to see me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> I love him. When he makes the effort it's wonderful. Stupidly I keep hoping he'll change once and for all. I'm not saying things have to be perfect, that's not possible in any relationship, I'd just like to be happier more often than I'm miserable. I'm tired of being lonely. I just want him to see me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well it seems he's only capable of doling it out in small doses. Throwing you crumbs intead of the entire cracker. As long as you accept this and stick around, this is what you'll get.

He has to be forced to do more and the only way that happens is if you cut way back and do the opposite of what you're doing now. 

He'll continue giving you scraps if he's sure you'll accept that. He's not afraid of losing you.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Your screen name is "lonely and lost" and you feel so inconsequential and your relationship with your husband sounds very frustrating- communication which leaves you unsatisfied and sexual frustration.

In recovery circles I've heard "expectations are premeditated resentments". At one point, communication with my husband was like banging my head against a brick wall and wound up in arguments. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

Can't change him, so I emotionally detached from him (not allowing his behavior to control my feelings/moods), got some IC, developed a support system of girlfriends who love deep sharing.

All that to say, you have some power here! You can address feeling "lonely and lost" and feeling "inconsequential" even if your husband doesn't change.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> I fullfill all his needs, in every way, but I can't rely on him for anything. He gets sick and I have to come home and go with him to the doctor, I have an op and he waits for me in the car. Says he didn't know I'd want him to come in with me. How does that work?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


L&L I hear resentment in there and I'm sure he feels it. Better to stop fulfilling his every need than to do it with a chip on your shoulder IMO.

What if you said to him "I'm having an operation and I would like you to come in with me" or when he turns away in bed "I need a hug."?


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Your screen name is "lonely and lost" and you feel so inconsequential and your relationship with your husband sounds very frustrating- communication which leaves you unsatisfied and sexual frustration.
> 
> In recovery circles I've heard "expectations are premeditated resentments". At one point, communication with my husband was like banging my head against a brick wall and wound up in arguments. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
> 
> ...


That's a large part of my problem. Over the years I've learnt to put up walls to keep from getting hurt. It also prevents me from letting myself feel enough at times though, so it's a catch 22. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Blonde said:


> L&L I hear resentment in there and I'm sure he feels it. Better to stop fulfilling his every need than to do it with a chip on your shoulder IMO.
> 
> What if you said to him "I'm having an operation and I would like you to come in with me" or when he turns away in bed "I need a hug."?


Hell yes, I'm resentful! Why should I have to tell him what I need over and over again. He's a grown up man, surely he can learn, surely he has eyes in his head to see how I'm feeling, surely he has logic. I'm not his mother that has to do everything for him, I do it out of love. When I don't he uses emotional blackmail ie. "Why won't you phone and make arrangements for me? You do it for your boss all day." Yet when I need help ie the car needs a service I must find a mechanic, explain what needs doing, make all the arrangements because he's too busy. I am resentful and I don't care if he knows it, if I can support him then he's quite capable of supporting me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Well it seems he's only capable of doling it out in small doses. Throwing you crumbs intead of the entire cracker. As long as you accept this and stick around, this is what you'll get.
> 
> He has to be forced to do more and the only way that happens is if you cut way back and do the opposite of what you're doing now.
> 
> He'll continue giving you scraps if he's sure you'll accept that. He's not afraid of losing you.


I dont think he is throwing her crumbs. She is not getting exactly what she wants, exactly how or when she wants it. What he does do or try is not acknowledged, not good enough. He never gets it right so she is not happy. My guess is he feels inept and inadequate and like he cant win.

When I say you should take some resposability I mean say what you want in the moment instead of being resentful of not getting it.

He is not going to meet all of your needs all of the time but nobody else will either. 

If there are things you dont want to do for him or that he should be doing himself, i.e...mothering him, stop doing those things.Then there is nothing to resent and he is forced to grow up and do what he needs to do. But showing and telling him how to please you is your job. You may not be doing as good a job at that as you think. When he doesnt do what you want instead of speaking up right then and there you pout, cry, withdraw and then resent him because he "failed" you. Dont think this failure in your eyes isnt obvious to him and I bet he feels terrible about it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Lonely&Lost1 said:


> Hell yes, I'm resentful! Why should I have to tell him what I need over and over again. He's a grown up man, surely he can learn, surely he has eyes in his head to see how I'm feeling, surely he has logic. I'm not his mother that has to do everything for him, I do it out of love. When I don't he uses emotional blackmail ie.* "Why won't you phone and make arrangements for me? You do it for your boss all day." *Yet when I need help ie the car needs a service I must find a mechanic, explain what needs doing, make all the arrangements because he's too busy. I am resentful and I don't care if he knows it, if I can support him then he's quite capable of supporting me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't see his comment as blackmail... sure it's designed to make you feel guilty for doing it for someone 'less' important than he is (in his mind) but that's manipulation. He didn't force you to do his will, you chose to. 

NO is a powerful word. You should use it more often. He may not say NO to you, but he's doing it by NOT giving you what you want. That's what 'I'm too busy' means. NO with a few more words peppered in.

You know you can learn a lot from him. He's a great teacher of self-centeredness. Bet he doesn't resent you at all... he may not respect you, but he definitely doesn't resent you.

And I'd like to add, your boss pays you... meaning there's a_ benefit _to you doing the things you do for him.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

just to make it clear i am not saying you're wrong and he is right. you have valid gripes i'm just saying take a closer look at your part


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think he does enough to get by. That's not good long term, which is why the OP is feeling inconsequential. It's gone on for too long.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> I think he does enough to get by. That's not good long term, which is why the OP is feeling inconsequential. It's gone on for too long.


Yes, this is true but she is part of the dynamic. If the part she plays in it is not addressed there wont be lasting changes.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

sorry for talking about you in the third person lost


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

curious2 said:


> Yes, this is true but she is part of the dynamic. If the part she plays in it is not addressed there wont be lasting changes.


Of course she is, which is why I suggested she jump off the hamster wheel. 

Enabling the problem isn't solving it.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Of course she is, which is why I suggested she jump off the hamster wheel.
> 
> Enabling the problem isn't solving it.


You wont jump off that wheel until you look at yourself too and make some changes. If you do this and you're still going in circles (it will take time... changes dont happen overnight) then you know its time to get off permanently.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

L&L, your situation seems so similiar to mine 10 years ago...been married 33. I ended up like you putting up walls to self protect, creating a life and interests outside my marriage to make up for what I wasn't getting from husband. This led to a downward spiral where in return he withdrew even more, resentment led to resentment in turn finally resolving itself in H having A which I was clueless to. In hindsight, what would I have done differently? First of all, judge my H less on his delivering on my expectations. We set up these expectations which may or may not be valid, which may or not be understood by the other party. I would be more assertive in expressing my needs and desires to the point of spelling it out literally in a non complaining way.
I would express myself in positive words, not negative. Less "you never", "why don't you ever", which men see as criticism and more "It made me feel so good when you told me you loved me" or "I love it when you kiss my cheek(or whatever)." etc. Express your needs in a compliment first and then how the desired behavior makes you feel...eg. " It was so nice cuddling with you last night, it makes me feel so protected" Or whatever your situation is... 
Be grateful and express it for even the littlest ways he comes thru for you...I would have given my left arm to hear my husband say "I love you" everyday without being prompted! Only now, after 33 years, a nearly destroyed marriage and 20 months reconciliating does he hold me at night and tells me (sometimes) he loves me first!
It sounds like your husband is easily flooded like mine when emotions get negative...try not to overreact or get dramatic when heavy conversations are encountered...at least your having them. Withdrawing means they cant handle the emotions they are feeling...try not to have these conversations at bedtime in the bedroom...sends bad vibes into a sacred place where you both should find peace.
I would definitely insist on serious MC. A well trained and sensitive MC knows how to draw out emotions without judgment and can see where problems are because they are neutral. 
Be absolutely sure you are not verbally abusive: *****ing, nagging, screaming, to get your point across. Touch alot, especially when expressing a heartfelt need. Eye to eye contact. Honesty. Humor.
I know this is incredibly hard when you feel such resentment and exhaustion but its your last resort, believe me. Give it 6 more months, maybe a year and if he still does not come around, I am afraid you may need to consider he may be involved in an EA or PA. 
2 great books are "What Women Want Men To Know" and "Secrets about Men Every Woman Should Know" by Barbara de Angelis, PHD They are dead on and funny to boot. Good luck, my dear, I'm pulling for you!


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## Lonely&Lost1 (Jan 29, 2013)

allwillbewell said:


> L&L, your situation seems so similiar to mine 10 years ago...been married 33. I ended up like you putting up walls to self protect, creating a life and interests outside my marriage to make up for what I wasn't getting from husband. This led to a downward spiral where in return he withdrew even more, resentment led to resentment in turn finally resolving itself in H having A which I was clueless to. In hindsight, what would I have done differently? First of all, judge my H less on his delivering on my expectations. We set up these expectations which may or may not be valid, which may or not be understood by the other party. I would be more assertive in expressing my needs and desires to the point of spelling it out literally in a non complaining way.
> I would express myself in positive words, not negative. Less "you never", "why don't you ever", which men see as criticism and more "It made me feel so good when you told me you loved me" or "I love it when you kiss my cheek(or whatever)." etc. Express your needs in a compliment first and then how the desired behavior makes you feel...eg. " It was so nice cuddling with you last night, it makes me feel so protected" Or whatever your situation is...
> Be grateful and express it for even the littlest ways he comes thru for you...I would have given my left arm to hear my husband say "I love you" everyday without being prompted! Only now, after 33 years, a nearly destroyed marriage and 20 months reconciliating does he hold me at night and tells me (sometimes) he loves me first!
> It sounds like your husband is easily flooded like mine when emotions get negative...try not to overreact or get dramatic when heavy conversations are encountered...at least your having them. Withdrawing means they cant handle the emotions they are feeling...try not to have these conversations at bedtime in the bedroom...sends bad vibes into a sacred place where you both should find peace.
> ...


Thank you so much for your kind words and advice. They are much appreciated!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

I am with the others who said it sounds like he cares but is clueless. What men often do is put effort to help their marriage in the WRONG place. As women we need someone to listen , understand, and cherish us. Men do not have those needs on such a high level, and it's REALLY HARD for a lot of them to "get it". You can tell them till your face turns blue for years and years what you want, but they'll never quite "get" exactly why you need these things, and they don't properly change. In this situation it's unfortunate because the man truly does care and love you, just can't seem to get it right. It would be a shame to end a marriage when there's still such terrific hope.

My husband shares this hardship of understanding of my needs, and I remember THIS ARTICLE helped clarify a few things for both of us. Who knew that most divorces are initiated by women under the cause of emotional abandonment? I certainly don't want to be part of that statistic! So we've both been working together to help him understand my emotional needs, and honestly, we're A LOT better.

It helped to research validation techniques online for men, it helps men understand where to put their energy with their wives' feelings. A lot of men do have trouble empathizing, and learning to validate (something women do more naturally) so it will take time, but honestly he sounds willing to explore ways to make things better. 

EDIT: OH also here is ANOTHER ARTICLE that helped me about Emotionally distant husbands, and how to spot patterns and fix them


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I would give counseling a try and also recommend that you both read "The Five Languages of Love."


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## Ellen Steve (Jan 23, 2013)

His actions are matching his words. I think he is making a slow but a positive effort by sitting by you that night. If you expect him to change for you then you shall also change a bit to compliment him. I don’t really see a problem there, at least not as serious as to think of divorce. Do some self study. I think you are just generally unhappy or depressed about something. Involve yourself in something that you enjoy doing like cooking, joining gym or even music. This may help you channelize your thought process to be positive and realistic. And if this is a case that you felt ignored sexually, do not hesitate to initiate or to show him what you want. Unless you tell him clearly what you want, it would be really unfair for him to be blamed. Be cool and first discover what you want and feel.
Common Marriage Issues


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