# Marriage about to be over



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

I have disrespected my wife on several occasions. I would try waking my wife up by inserting myself in her while she was sleeping. Unfortunately I did it one too many times. She is ready to end our relationship. She would only show me tears when she was disappointed with me waking her up. sometimes she would let me finish, clean up and go back to bed. I want our marriage to continue, but she says the relationship is over. We have three kids and she wants to keep things civil for them. I was told that i should have fixed my waking her up problem way before now. I never knew just how bad it was until the other night. I would really like to keep this marriage together. We have had a great marriage for 11 years, except for several times of me waking her up.


----------



## notsocool (Jul 4, 2010)

Um, you could start by calling the issue what it actually is, which is Nothing about waking your wife up and Everything about attempting or having sex without your wife's consent...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Suggestion: Next time you get an urge to "wake your wife up", instead put some porn on the computer and go get the lotion and kleenex box. Your wife will thank you


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Casper1975 said:


> I have disrespected my wife on several occasions. I would try waking my wife up by inserting myself in her while she was sleeping. Unfortunately I did it one too many times. She is ready to end our relationship. She would only show me tears when she was disappointed with me waking her up. sometimes she would let me finish, clean up and go back to bed. I want our marriage to continue, but she says the relationship is over. We have three kids and she wants to keep things civil for them. I was told that i should have fixed my waking her up problem way before now. I never knew just how bad it was until the other night. I would really like to keep this marriage together. We have had a great marriage for 11 years, except for several times of me waking her up.


I did that ONCE early in my marriage about 20 years ago. I was an idiot.

Others have pointed out that you are in the wrong. You are ... Stop it! As if the tears weren't enough of a clue? The tears weren't simply because you woke her up. Yet you kept on doing it ...

I have to believe there is something you aren't saying. You could just stop the risk to your marriage by not doing that anymore but I have the feeling that while this is enough of a reason, it isn't the only reason she says the relationship is over.


----------



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

Well my biggest question of concern is, how in the world will I ever prove to my wife that I will not try waking her up at night, if I cannot get the chance to prove myself ever again.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sleep in separate rooms? Hey a lot of us love to "wake or wives up" via morning sex. However, you have to see if she's receptive to your advances and use foreplay prior to "sticking it in". Please tell me that you understand the concept of foreplay and have done this with your wife to get her excited about having sex with you. 

But you just trying to stick it in without her being aware is a form or rape.


----------



## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Sounds like rape to me.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

LoriC said:


> Sounds like rape to me.


I really agree with this. Your wife should be able to fully trust you. Why would you even attempt this a second time if you knew this was devastating to your wife? Being violated in this way has forever long term effects in a very negative way.

There is nothing you can do to fix this marriage. You defiantly burned that bridge. I feel really bad for your wife.


----------



## notsocool (Jul 4, 2010)

You could start by not calling it 'waking her up at night' Call it what it is..
That may prove you're just on the verge of taking it seriously
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Casper,

What did she tell you in the past when you pulled this stunt?


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I really agree with this. Your wife should be able to fully trust you. Why would you even attempt this a second time if you knew this was devastating to your wife? Being violated in this way has forever long term effects in a very negative way.
> 
> There is nothing you can do to fix this marriage. You defiantly burned that bridge. I feel really bad for your wife.


I think that is overly harsh. It's probably more of a communication problem.

Men have little concept of spousal rape. To a husband, his wife waking him up via sex is almost universally seen as a pleasant experience. So it's understandable that we would assume the same for our wives.

I don't know exactly how his wife communicated her displeasure to the OP. But, given that he was shocked to get the news that divorce is looming, I would suppose she didn't communicate effectively. He likely thought it was just a question of him doing it wrong, or doing it too often.

He should certainly stop and talk to his wife about this. Find out why she sees sex with while waking up as an unacceptable, horrible act. There may be other issues in play.


----------



## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

My hubster loves to wake me up this way....I also love to wake him up by sucking on him. This is a loving expression of how much I desire him. The thing is before I ever did it for the first time I started teasing him about how I wanted to wake him up hot and hard. I see nothing wrong with this if it is communicated and agreed to. The tears should have been a clue...if she wasn't ready for you "wet" it probably hurt! I would suggest lots of apologies and ask for what she would like you to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

So I'm assuming she has told you before she doesn't care for you doing that, and you continued to do it anyway? 

No means no. I can't say I blame her actually. Would you have gotten the message a little better had she rolled over and decked you one?

Also, I have a feeling there is more to this story. Is it possible her wanting to end the marriage is not just about you waking her up, but maybe you have disrespected her in other ways in the marriage as well?


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Having sex with your wife while she is asleep, and not oral, inside her?

That's rape, unless she gave you permission beforehand and you both talked about it.

Your wife would feel raped and many other horrible emotions.

How would you like it is she wore a strapon and had anal sex with you while you slept and when you woke up, she finished, cleaned up and back to bed???

Are there any other issues, like romance, intimacy, cuddling and emotional support?


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Casper1975 said:


> sometimes she would let me finish, clean up and go back to bed.


 She didn't like it, but let you sometimes finish? Why? Was she afraid to say anything to you or tell you to stop?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I think is overly harsh. It's probably more of a communication problem.
> 
> Men have little concept of spousal rape. To a husband, his wife waking him up via sex is almost universally seen as a pleasant experience. So it's understandable that we would assume the same for our wives.
> 
> ...


He said that her reaction to him doing this was generally for her to cry. Crying is a pretty good indicator that she did not go along with it.


For me... I would not mind it at all. I actually like to be woken up this way. But apparently his wife cries when this is happens and he cares so little that he continues at it while she is crying.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Casper1975,

How long have you been married?

How often did you wake her up this way?


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> He said that her reaction to him doing this was generally for her to cry. Crying is a pretty good indicator that she did not go along with it.


That's true. But he also said she would sometimes allow him to finish. So her communication seems inconsistent. And it was certainly ineffective, since he is surprised by her desire to divorce.

I agree that the OP was a jerk. But I won't call him a rapist (yet) and it seems very possible that his problem was interpreting his wife's words and actions incorrectly. These boards are full of marriages in crisis because wives don't understand that, when their husbands said they needed sex, they meant they actually NEEDED sex. Or because of husbands who didn't understand that quality time with the family doesn't include a six pack on the couch with the game on. All of those aren't necessarily cases of malice. They're just not speaking the same language.


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> But he also said she would sometimes allow him to finish. So her communication seems inconsistent.


Exactly, and thats why I asked this question on the first page. If she allowed him to sometimes finish, it made me wonder if she was afraid to tell him no or to stop.


----------



## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

The op has shown breathtaking selfishness, and the same in a lack of care and thought about his wife's feelings by repeatedly doing this act despite her protests- albeit 'inconsistent' ones*. As it has already been suggested, I would bet this approach extends beyond these incidents and the op has much more problems than just 'proving he will not violate his wife whilst she is unconscious anymore.' I don't know what to suggest but it starts with taking a long hard look in the mirror. 

*What rubbish.


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

How are things outside of the bedroom? I understand her being upset about what you're doing,( and she has a right to be) but for her to want a divorce over just that is extreme. So that makes me wonder if there are other things going on in the marriage as well. Maybe she feels you are disrespecting her in other areas besides the bedroom. You said you are aware you have disrespected her, then why keep doing it? Whats your pay off?


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Gruff said:


> *What rubbish.


Are you saying that differences in verbal and nonverbal communication don't exist? Or are you saying that verbal communication must always be heeded over nonverbal communication? Or are you saying that men should be expected to read the minds of women who are inconsistent in their communication to see what they really mean? That's what sounds like rubbish to me.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I did it or tried to a few times early in our marriage....Always got a sleepy grin a wink, and a great finish.....We always had a policy of "when we are in bed naked, anything go's".....I have never thought to ask permission, even the first time, when we were dating....Some language speeks louder than words....I guess some things in the old pre PC days WERE better...


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Just let her go Casper. Why be married to someone who doesn't want to have sex with you anyway?


----------



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

The last time I tried waking my wife up sexually, I had oral sex with my wife, went to brush my teeth and wash my face. I came back to bed and she was asleep with nothing on but her shirt. She woke up mad and stormed out of the room.
The time before, she was waiting for me to come home from work. She was wearing a lingerie outfit laying on the couch. We walked to the bedroom. Then laid in bed. She then fell asleep. I started to leave her alone, but could not resist myself. I woke her up sexually and she let me finish that time. She cleaned herself up and put clothes back on and went to sleep.
As far as any problems in our marriage. The let down she had was wanting a nicer, roomier house that we could not get. Other than that the marriage has been great. Very, very few arguments.


----------



## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He said that her reaction to him doing this was generally for her to cry. Crying is a pretty good indicator that she did not go along with it.
> 
> 
> For me... I would not mind it at all. I actually like to be woken up this way. But apparently his wife cries when this is happens and he cares so little that he continues at it while she is crying.



Yes, Yes, Yes! You hit it straight on. I have a hard time calling this rape and I'm all for women's rights - very much a feminist here. But sexually - a woman really has to communicate with her husband and vise versa - secrets kill a marriage - I know. If my husband would have done this everyday for the last 20 years I would have been fine. I would have seen it as part of his sexuality - he just chose not to share his sexuality like this with me because he 1. wanted me but 2. also wanted other women. It is really that simple. 

But here is this guy who seems to only want his wife and part of his sexuality is STARTING sex with his sleeping wife - it's exciting to him - IT TOTALLY IS - IT GETS HIM OFF!!!! So what does she do? She cries. She hates it. Sexually she is not interested in his needs in my opinion - no don't cry that I'm defending a rapists everyone - he's not. He does have a communication problem - he should go to sexual or marriage counseling with his wife and tell her why this gets him off and the counselor should be able to further explain that it is a fine way to show his sexuality to his wife! How lucky she is! He wants her when she's awake, when she's asleep and he's not out cruising other crotches!


----------



## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Casper1975 said:


> The last time I tried waking my wife up sexually, I had oral sex with my wife


You tried waking her up by sticking your penis in her mouth while she was fast asleep?

That's rather bold.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

boogie110 said:


> But here is this guy who seems to only want his wife and part of his sexuality is STARTING sex with his sleeping wife - it's exciting to him - IT TOTALLY IS - IT GETS HIM OFF!!!! So what does she do? She cries. She hates it. Sexually she is not interested in his needs in my opinion - no don't cry that I'm defending a rapists everyone - he's not. He does have a communication problem - he should go to sexual or marriage counseling with his wife and tell her why this gets him off and the counselor should be able to further explain that it is a fine way to show his sexuality to his wife! How lucky she is! He wants her when she's awake, when she's asleep and he's not out cruising other crotches!


You dont really think that by marriage, a women gives up her vj to her husband to stick his penis in whenever he has a "need" for an orgasm do you? That certainly would appeal to a man who is too lazy and selfish to have mutually satisfying sex. 

She should divorce him. She can find someone who she can trust and who respects her as a human. He can find someone who makes her vj available to him whenever he has a "need" for an orgasm, wheather she is ready or not.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

totamm said:


> You tried waking her up by sticking your penis in her mouth while she was fast asleep?
> 
> That's rather bold.


I think he gave her oral sex.


----------



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

That part of the quote wasn't right. I was down on her. Then she fell asleep while I was cleaning my face. My penis did not go in her mouth.


----------



## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> You dont really think that by marriage, a women gives up her vj to her husband to stick his penis in whenever he has a "need" for an orgasm do you? That certainly would appeal to a man who is too lazy and selfish to have mutually satisfying sex.
> 
> She should divorce him. She can find someone who she can trust and who respects her as a human. He can find someone who makes her vj available to him whenever he has a "need" for an orgasm, wheather she is ready or not.


Ouch, yes, you are correct and I totally respect your opinion 100%. I do believe that because sex is so important to men - we as women can never understand what the drug called testosterone does to the male body - that our body is his when we get married and vice versa. Problem is most men love it vice versa - women, more issues.

So yes, I still hold true to my opinion but yours is probably more valid than mine, I understand.


----------



## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

totamm said:


> You tried waking her up by sticking your penis in her mouth while she was fast asleep?
> 
> That's rather bold.


I understood what he meant... read the rest of his post and then it becomes clear. Better comprehension skills please so we don't need to rehash what is already clear.


----------



## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

So it seems to me from what you described that when you did this you two were ALREADY being intimate or were planning on engaging in it and she fell asleep on you! Who's the selfish one!? I would have done the same as you and the only difference in the end would have been my wife's reaction. She would not be devastated but feel guilty she fell asleep (rightfully so).

Given the fact that she cries about it means you shouldn't do it but I would be PISSSED if I gave my wife oral and she didn't even have the consideration to stay awake so I could also have some pleasure. frick man...very very very upset

Are you sure she wasn't sexually molested at some time prior???

My wife would not feel raped if I did this to her.... I don't know what I would do going forward... I think talking and maybe MC to work through it might be in order


----------



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

MC is definitely in order. Thank goodness my wife and I finally started doing some talking on the phone instead of just texting. It had been about six days of no verbal communication. Now we are talking about what we will have going on when I come home from work in another week. I work in the offshore industry. She has changed conversation to include both of us and the children. I do realize that we still have a long ways to go to save this marriage.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

boogie110 said:


> Ouch, yes, you are correct and I totally respect your opinion 100%. I do believe that because sex is so important to men - we as women can never understand what the drug called testosterone does to the male body - that our body is his when we get married and vice versa. Problem is most men love it vice versa - women, more issues.
> 
> So yes, I still hold true to my opinion but yours is probably more valid than mine, I understand.


. 
I think that a decent compromise was possible if he was thinking in terms of mutually satisfying and not release for himself and his "needs" only.

It sounds like she was willing to have sex with him but just not when she was not ready. Why could he nit have made an attempt to wake her up the usual way? 

Maybe he likes having sex with a sleeping woman. Communication with her about his desire would have helped. If she agreed, he should not do it often and he should get her permission before she goes to sleep. 

She needs to be warmed up or lubricated so he can warm her up or lube and stick it in if that what he is into. 

He could have been loving and affectionate afterwards to satisfy heR "need' not to feel used. 

Just a little consideration, communication and attention to her needs as well as his would have avoided a big problem. They have equal needs and acting otherwise causes problems, obviously.


----------



## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

some people are far too liberal with the use of the word "rape".


----------



## totamm (May 1, 2012)

HappyHubby said:


> I understood what he meant... read the rest of his post and then it becomes clear. Better comprehension skills please so we don't need to rehash what is already clear.


I'm so sorry.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Casper1975 said:


> MC is definitely in order. Thank goodness my wife and I finally started doing some talking on the phone instead of just texting. It had been about six days of no verbal communication. Now we are talking about what we will have going on when I come home from work in another week. I work in the offshore industry. She has changed conversation to include both of us and the children. I do realize that we still have a long ways to go to save this marriage.


Casper just be careful to get permission for what ever you are into. Also remember that sex should me mutually enjoyable not just to get yiu off. most women are sensitive to feeling used. 

Make sure you are knowlegable about female sexuality. Foreplay is important, if she agrees to have sex without foreplay, you have to use lube or it may hurt. 

One interpretation of her crying may have been that it hurt. That was strangely not considered in the rush to blame your wife for your behavior. if you love her, remember she is more than the sum of her parts. 

If porn is making you less sensitive to her feelings, stop watching it.


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Stop trying to have sex and do sexual acts with her when she's asleep.


----------



## rumen.hristov (Mar 5, 2013)

My personal opinion is that you should use the opportunity and really apologize to her. Sincerely. Then simply allow her to tell and set out for you all the things she likes to see changed. And then make a life and death promise to her and yourself that you WILL change those things. And certainly, you waking your wife up at night sexually is more of a rape. Certainly is when you saw her crying. Just don't do it once you two go back together. This is really the only thing that might be able to help in my opinion.


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Does she still want a divorce over it? Do you all have sex when shes awake, if so is she ok with that? Just not when asleep and wants a divorce over it.


----------



## Casper1975 (Mar 4, 2013)

My wife and I have enjoyed sex together many times. We usually have to plan times of having sex when the kids are either asleep or while they are in school. I work offshore, so the sexual desires for myself are usually high, but my wife does satisfy me while she is awake. I, of course, do wish to have sex more often than she does. My wife and I are trying to work on our marriage though.


----------



## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Wow. OK, you initiate while she's asleep. She gets upset (sometimes) and you do it again knowing she might get upset. Cut to she threatens divorce. So all other marriage issues you have aside, why does she not like it? Is it too frequent? Does she feel that its demeaning in some way? As a HD monogamist male, I'm feeling like she has some hang up that you both need to work through.


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

When a woman says no or that she doesn't like it, thats what it means. However, in your wifes case, I think shes giving you mixed messages. Sometimes she gets upset and cries over it, other times she lets you finish! So yes, if you are gonna try to save your marriage, counseling is in order. I hope you both get to the bottom of why she lets you do it sometimes, but cries other times, and why you keep doing something over and over again she has told you she doesn't really care for.


----------



## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Sounds like she threatened divorce as a wake up call. Sounds like it worked.

Personally my wife loves when I go down when she's sleeping and also when I insert in her sleeping.. it's a great way to wake up


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> You dont really think that by marriage, a *man* gives up *his labor* to *his wife* to *earn money* whenever *she* has a "need" for *money* do you? That certainly would appeal to a *woman* who is too lazy and selfish to have mutually satisfying *careers*.


Switching the sexes and needs can help identify double standards.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Switching the sexes and needs can help identify double standards.


PHT Really? There is no double standard, there is one man who does not respect or value what a woman does in her home. 

This is so common that I wish someone would come up with something difference. It is at the seat of much resentment felt by many woman married to men who overvalue their contribution and undervalue what their wives bring to the marriage. 

!Any woman with self respect would tell you to go [email protected] yourself iif you said what you think.

If you had no wife you would still need to work to put a roof over your head and food on the table right?

You would come home cook, clean, wash your clothing, pay your bills and do what ever is needed to take care of the place that you reside. 

So you add a wife who lives in the same domicile and whom I assume you love. You both decide to have kids. You both decide that wifie will stay home to care for the children and you will work to support yourself, your wife and kids. 

Now there is your wife. She lives in your home, eats your food, spends your money and breathes your air. She gets to bask in the presence of the man who is responsible for her survival. 

There is 1 or perhaps even 2 problems with your obvious lack of appreciation and respect for SAHM's. She may actually value herself and what she brings to the table a lot more than you do. 

She cooks and cleans and cares for the children, duties that you would have to do if she were not there to spend your millions in her profligate existence.

You should reframe your idea of a marital relationship. Both people are responsible to respect, appreciate and love each other. A SAHM is not lazy. 

She works as hard as a man employed outside of the home. She does not owe her husband sex for fulfilling his obligations to himself, children and wife. They owe each other the emotional and physical intimacy.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> PHT Really? There is no double standard, there is one man who does not respect or value what a woman does in her home.


I thought you had gone beyond the OP, who I agree acted poorly, and were generalizing about marriage and a woman's lack of obligation in marriage.



> !Any woman with self respect would tell you to go [email protected] yourself iif you said what you think.


You're saying that traditional women have no self respect? I disagree.



> If you had no wife you would still need to work to put a roof over your head and food on the table right?
> 
> You would come home cook, clean, wash your clothing, pay your bills and do what ever is needed to take care of the place that you reside.


True. But I would work on my own timetable to provide for my own needs. There would be no need to work for things that I didn't desire.



> So you add a wife who lives in the same domicile and whom I assume you love. You both decide to have kids. You both decide that wifie will stay home to care for the children and you will work to support yourself, your wife and kids.
> 
> Now there is your wife. She lives in your home, eats your food, spends your money and breathes your air. She gets to bask in the presence of the man who is responsible for her survival.


Right. And I have expanded my obligations. I have to provide for, not only my own needs, but those of other people. I have to consider them. Many would say that I should consider their needs before my own. To work only for myself, when others are depending on me to meet their needs would be selfish of me.



> There is 1 or perhaps even 2 problems with your obvious lack of appreciation and respect for SAHM's. She may actually value herself and what she brings to the table a lot more than you do.


You misunderstand me. I appreciate SAHMs. They provide a valuable service. But it's not a heroic undertaking. We're talking about 21st century women who have vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, washing machines, clothes dryers, microwaves, etc. If we were talking about pioneer days, where women beat clothes clean on the rocks down by the creek and then hung on a line to dry, well that would take all day. And slaughtering a chicken for dinner would also be tedious.

If the OP's wife, or any other SAHMs on TAM are doing that level of labor, then I sincerely apologize. All of my comments have assumed that they were taking advantage of modern conveniences. Given that we're on the internet, I am guessing that everyone here is using labor saving technology.



> You should reframe your idea of a marital relationship. Both people are responsible to respect, appreciate and love each other. A SAHM is not lazy.
> 
> She works as hard as a man employed outside of the home. She does not owe her husband sex for fulfilling his obligations to himself, children and wife. They owe each other the emotional and physical intimacy.


I have exactly the correct idea of a marital relationship. It is, as I said, one of mutual obligation. Men have obligations. Women have obligations. Oddly, it's rarely the men who bristle at their obligations.

As for a SAHM working as hard as a man, right. All those coal miners heading down into the gloom of their jobs are just thanking their lucky stars that they're not stuck at home with the kids watching Dr. Oz. 

As for women not owing their husbands sex, you are wrong. Sex is a marital obligation. There is a reason it is referred to as a "wifely duty." But this seems to be one of the areas where women commonly bristle at their obligations. Many have a double standard and seem to think that they should only be obligated to do things they want to do. I disagree. Some obligations are easy and come naturally. Some are difficult and uncomfortable. That doesn't mean they're not obligations.


----------



## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Sex should not be an obligation. Sex is a pleasure you give and recieve from your spouse. If you think it is an obligation or duty you missed the boat. It is an outward expression of your love for each other. I also do not agree that a spouse should neglect or refuse to meet a spouse's physical needs. Physical relations in a marriage are a need to have not a want to have. 

I know this is an old fashion mind set, but I don't believe in saying NO to a spouse....keeping that in mind my hubster would not ask if I was sick or upset either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

PHT if sex is an obligation, how do you enforce that duty? I think you are duty bound to let a potential partner know that in exchange for allowing her to live in your home and take care of your kids, she has a duty to give you orgasms. 

Dont pretend to marry for love then decide you'd rather have a business arrangement. How many taker's do you think you would get if you revealed that you are in the market to buy some gareenteed orgasms? 

I don't understand how you can even think this would work. For me sex is freeing, intensely emotional and erotic. The thought of providing orgasms to a man for his monetary support is an anathema to me. 

Can't understand how such a deeply emotional act can be vulcanized into a duty. 

I found a solution for you. Do you know that a woman is not needed to have duty sex and a family? Buy a sex doll or fake vj, adopt children, hire a nanny, housekeeper and secretary. If you weigh the benifits you come out way ahead. 

The doll won't cost any extra money, except for replacements when the important parts wear out. Dollie will not annoy you by trying to communicate with you, she will not ask you for love or affection and will not complain about your performance. 

It is a match made in hell for some but one man's hell is another's heaven.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> PHT if sex is an obligation, how do you enforce that duty?


You simply hold it as an expectation. My wife expects me to go to work every day. She doesn't transport me to my workplace in shackles. It's just what I do for our family.



> I think you are duty bound to let a potential partner know that in exchange for allowing her to live in your home and take care of your kids, she has a duty to give you orgasms.


Absolutely. Discussion of needs is important before all marriages. And obviously, any woman who views a man's needs as unimportant is ill-suited to marry.



> Dont pretend to marry for love then decide you'd rather have a business arrangement. How many taker's do you think you would get if you revealed that you are in the market to buy some gareenteed orgasms?


I think there are far more women interested in marrying men for a mutually beneficial provision of each others' needs, than there are men interested in marrying women who view men's needs as unimportant and able to be satisfied by dolls.



> I don't understand how you can even think this would work. For me sex is freeing, intensely emotional and erotic. The thought of providing orgasms to a man for his monetary support is an anathema to me.


Understood. You're a modern woman interested in a modern marriage where you take from your husband and, if he's lucky, you'll provide a bit of a return on his investment in the marriage. That is your right. For me, that is anathema.

For me, marriage is a two-way street. My needs are every bit as important as my wife's. Sadly, that viewpoint is now offensive to many women. They believe men shouldn't stand up for themselves. They believe men should focus on serving their wives and wives should focus on allowing their husband to serve them.

I guess it works for some. But, for me, it's no way to live.

For women who believe that sex should not be an expectation in marriage, yet they long to have a husband to provide for their needs, I suggest a solution. Welfare. If these women go on welfare, the government will send them a check every month. No welfare bureaucrat will expect sex from these women or notice if she's put on a few pounds or sagged a bit in strategic areas. If these women ever get a physical itch, they can have a one night stand, and be rid of any entanglements like worrying about men being bothersome and actually wanting something out of the marriage. It's a win/win.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

:scratchhead: who said anything about women getting married without the expectation of sex? I am not a selfish entitled person so naturally I am not that kind of wife. Based on my husbands behavior towards me, he is not a selfish and entitled man.

We have expectations of each other. It's an exchange of satisfactions. My satisfactions are different from his. His needs are no less important to me because i know he feels loved when I meet them. 

My attitude would change if he was not interested in meeting my needs but still expected me to meet his. That does not work in any relationship. 

Don't you think that is fair? I think the healthiest way to look at marriage is holistically. 

You can go into marriage with the expectation that your needs and your partners needs will be met to the best of your abilities. One persons needs are not more important or less important, they are equal if different. Choose the right person, have the right attitude and you may suceed, no garentees.


----------

