# He cheats on business trips



## Caz867 (Apr 29, 2014)

Hi!

18 days ago I found out he cheats while on business trips. I haven't told a soul. I feel like I'm about to burst. I am angry. Resentful. I just don't understand...

We're both in our 50s. Good jobs. His takes him in many different countries. He can be gone for 2 weeks at a time. Our kids are in their 20s and two still live with us. They are independent, and have jobs. 

I always let him play hockey, golf, baseball. I never got in the way of his fishing trips and hunting trips. I tried to be a supportive and understanding wife. I worked hard outside the home and when home, I tried to be a domestic goddess. I always had a close and fun relationship with our kids. My family means everything to me.

Our relationship had its ups and downs. Like everyone else I guess.

In the last few years, it seemed we grew apart. He seldom had time for 'us'. He was always too tired or too stressed. Or he would simply say : _'We're old now!'_ ... Old??!!? :scratchhead:

I tried everything to rekindle our marriage. I gather I was the force behind it all, the one that held everything together. I still love him. I have never been unfaithful. 

Of course he said she means nothing to him and won't see her again. She's a young woman, aged between 28 and 30 perhaps, and she lives in another country. 

He wants us to go to counselling. He's been nothing but extra nice, very attentive, very focussed on our marriage. 

Needless to say, trust has gone out the window...

The thing is... he will travel again. That's his job. And I dread the time he will be headed to that country again... where she is. I don't know how to cope.

I must admit... I'm angry. We have everything we need to be happy. We're at an age when we SHOULD enjoy life. We have the financial means and kids are independent. 

Will our relationship simply bleed out until it dies one or two years from now?

Your feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

I feel very alone...

Caz


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

You'll never be able to trust him again. 

As long as he's going to be traveling this thing is not fixable.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You'll never be able to trust him again.
> 
> As long as he's going to be traveling this thing is not fixable.



I agree, unless:

1. You either travel with him, or 
2. Find a boyfriend yourself and have an open marriage.

If he keeps this job, then you don't have a lot of options here.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm very sorry, Caz. 

Trust broken is very difficult to get back. Especially when a spouse cheats while traveling since that can't be monitored. I wish I had some more hopeful words for you since I assume you want to reconcile. Counseling will help you determine how to go forward.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sorry you are going thru this.

Sometimes exposing can help to stop an affair.

Do you know if the young lady is married? If your H was really helpful, and remorseful, he should help you tell her H.

It does feel like the end of the world. 

Is he at a point where he could change jobs and stop traveling?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

If I were you, I would tell him it's either you or her, assuming you want to keep him. He ends all contact with her and stops business trips to her country. Then I would tell everyone I know, friends & family, exactly what he is doing and exactly what he has become. Then I would contact a lawyer and understand what your rights are and what you need yo do to protect yourself financially.

Frankly, I wouldn't stay with him after a physical betrayal, my sense of self respect wouldn't allow for it.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Sorry to hear it, Caz.

I used to travel a lot for work and could be gone for up to three months out of the year--all hotels and resorts paid for by the clients. I never cheated, but boy, did I ever have tons of opportunities. And I'll tell you what, coming home after a trip, the home dynamics were intensified. If my wife and I had sex that night and things were good, it was fantastic, like make-up sex. If she was in a bad mood and we didn't have sex before I went away again, that made things extremely difficult. Being away magnifies all this stuff and you also get to see people in new and exciting environments that set you up for the thrill of novelty. 

Anyways, what I'm getting at is that I understand; but we were talking about you. 

If your husband has to return to that country where the other woman is, it will probably be too much for him to withstand, especially if she chases him. In my opinion, he has to not go back or else you or someone trustworthy has to accompany him. It is possible that he will resist on his own, but he'll be unusual.


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## Caz867 (Apr 29, 2014)

*He can't stop travelling...*

He can't stop travelling. It's part of the job. Not easy when you're 53 to change jobs...


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## Caz867 (Apr 29, 2014)

When he's away, I'm on my own. I have a job which makes me meet a lot of people. I could do whatever, he wouldn't know about it. And yet, I have never strayed. Many opportunities. Never even crossed my mind to cheat.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Caz867 said:


> When he's away, I'm on my own. I have a job which makes me meet a lot of people. I could do whatever, he wouldn't know about it. And yet, I have never strayed. Many opportunities. Never even crossed my mind to cheat.


It's pretty obvious you and he have differing ethical perspectives.

Regardless of whether he can or will change his job there's no way you'll trust him when he's gone so much.

You know you'll always think he's screwing around every minute he's gone even if he's not.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Re: He can't stop travelling...*



Caz867 said:


> He can't stop travelling. It's part of the job. Not easy when you're 53 to change jobs...


I know it's not easy but if you are good at what you do, it's possible. I'm his age (a little older) and I did it. The question remains: can you still stay married to him and look yourself in the mirror every day. Do you still want to be married to someone who did this to you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Expose to everybody, prepare divorce papers, 

Then,

If he wants,

let him convince you HE is doing everything he can to repair the marriage. Let him do the heavy lifting, to your satisfaction.
Tell him you will decide depending on that all, if you want to stay or not.

If your marriage is worth keeping, you will have both to give in on the materialistic side of it. It will cost you. But then, a divorce will cost also a lot, both psychic and financial.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He can't stop travelling. But he CAN stop cheating. 

Or is it too late?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lenzi said:


> You'll never be able to trust him again.


This is true.




lenzi said:


> As long as he's going to be traveling this thing is not fixable.


He could just as easily cheat at home.

OP, if he's open to counselling, do it.

Get tested for STDs. 

He must stop all contact with this OW if he is serious. Tell him. No counselling is going to work as long as he's in touch w/ her.


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## Piggy (Apr 24, 2014)

Maybe change department or ask him take a break with you


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

This is a great post and it really makes me think that perhaps my wife thinks I cheat on business trips...which I never have and never will. How can I make it clear this isn't happening other than calling every night I'm not home and always bringing when I return. She has access to my phone I use on business and have let her use it many times. I'm not sure what else I can do.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Expose to everybody,


How would that help in this situation? He was cheating when he was in another country entirely.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> This is a great post and it really makes me think that perhaps my wife thinks I cheat on business trips...which I never have and never will. How can I make it clear this isn't happening other than calling every night I'm not home and always bringing when I return. She has access to my phone I use on business and have let her use it many times. I'm not sure what else I can do.


Why would she think that? If you aren't doing anything wrong I don't see a need to make a big deal of it. If my wife said "I'm going away on business but I won't be cheating on you"...I'd kind of think the exact opposite. 

You're not supposed to cheat..and you don't, the end.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> He could just as easily cheat at home.


I don't know. I think work travel particularly lends itself to infidelity. Especially if this is with a work contact. You're away. Home rules don't apply. This our thing, no one needs to know and they wouldn't understand anyway. We have professional and maybe other interests in common. We can talk shop. We're birds of a feather. And it is fun and exciting because we are away. It enhances the escapism. Sounds delicious, doesn't it? Also, it is my impression that some who travel for work get it in their heads that the travel means that they are special, important. An affair can be a like validation. May or may not be the case here. 

Was this with a work-contact? Do you think this may not be the first, just the first you discovered? If it's a work contact and work travel has been going on for a long time I would wonder if this was not the first. I do in, in fact, but that is my story.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Your husband has a away from home type personality basically he thinks he is single when every away from home or you *men like this usually don't change unless they want to or have to* my advice start making demands if he does not stop his business trips, start individual counseling ,and start taking responsibility for his action then you need to consider exiting the marriage.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> This is a great post and it really makes me think that perhaps my wife thinks I cheat on business trips...which I never have and never will. How can I make it clear this isn't happening other than calling every night I'm not home and always bringing when I return. She has access to my phone I use on business and have let her use it many times. I'm not sure what else I can do.


Transparency.

Make sure she has access to all your communications.
This doesn't have to be overt you can just tell her she needs your passwords in case she needs anything and you're not around.

Skype or Facetime her as often as you can when you're away.

Send her nice texts throughout the day to let her know she's on your mind.

Be exactly where you are supposed to be.

If possible bring her a small gift from where ever you've been to let her know you've been thinking of her and missed her.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My husband hasn't cheated on business trips, and only goes every year or two, but they are a huge trigger for me. I have to go with him or I go insane.

I've heard of WS's who put their webcam on their bed and leave it on all night for the BS. And like Tacoma says, total transparency and lots of communication helps.

OP, I will second the suggestion to get tested for STD's.

R is possible, but only if your husband is truly remorseful. This thread explains that, and much more

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Theseus said:


> How would that help in this situation? He was cheating when he was in another country entirely.


Exposing him can force him out of his comfortzone.

Quite often a WH denies everything and the wife is left with a devastated marriage while hubby just acts like nothing happened.

Exposure gives enough leverage to prevent that. He needs to change totally, because she needs a remorseful husband or a divorce.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

I have friends, in their 50s who have been in similar situations, or situations which could have turned out like this. They either moved to the country in which their husband had to work, or traveled with him.

Sad to say this was necessary, but in their cases, it was. I've learned that some men feel that it's not a big deal and as there is lots of opportunity to cheat... well, sadly, some do.

I'm sorry for your situation.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Theseus said:


> How would that help in this situation? He was cheating when he was in another country entirely.


I work in technical sales, much of it international. My experience has been that the professionals (at least that I've met) who work at that level, travel that much and who are married, are overwhelmingly faithful. 

It's not that we don't go out and dance and party it up when we're on the road. Booze and entertainment are an integral part of the job. But, if we're married, it's a point of pride that you do not cross the line and that you go back to your hotel room alone.

Sales, and I would say business in general, is about building relationships. To be truly effective at it you need integrity. Your potential clients want to know you have it and perhaps more importantly, your co-workers want to know you have it so that they can trust you to have their backs when needed. 

If you don't have it, it tends to bleed through in all of your professional interactions.

Nothing says you don't have integrity like stepping out on the promises you made in marriage. What should arguably be the single most important relationship in your life.

No one really wants to do business with a liar. 

I've only known two sales people (both guys) who fVcked around on their partners. For one it was habitual. He came across as a second-rate Wise Guy used car salesman. To the point of being cliché. He didn't last long and was canned. To this day, nobody can say how he got hired in the first place.

The other guy eventually married his affair partner, but only after very publically playing out the cheaters script for the rest of us to see.

He was marginalized into a position in the company with no chance of further advancement. He left on his own a couple of years later.

The point is that by exposing at work, he may indirectly be put under the same kind of pressure by his peers as he is on the home front. That is to show some remorse for his actions and *honesty* in all attempts to clean up the mess he made or face being vilified.

Whether the marriage survives or not.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

lostmyreligion said:


> I work in technical sales, much of it international. My experience has been that the professionals (at least that I've met) who work at that level, travel that much and who are married, are overwhelmingly faithful.
> 
> It's not that we don't go out and dance and party it up when we're on the road. Booze and entertainment are an integral part of the job. But, if we're married, it's a point of pride that you do not cross the line and that you go back to your hotel room alone.
> 
> ...


I suppose it may be somewhat contextual. I have seen a fair a amount of marital infidelity in business folk and it has not hurt them professionally. In fact, it can even be seen as a sign of strength and ruthless practicality. Puts an edge on. You are only as good as your last kill.


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## ScrewedEverything (May 14, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Transparency.
> 
> Make sure she has access to all your communications.
> This doesn't have to be overt you can just tell her she needs your passwords in case she needs anything and you're not around.
> ...


I was caz867's husband 5 years ago and this is exactly what I did/still do. I avoided work travel for as long as I could and when it could no longer be avoided, I offered to have her come along. That wasn't practical but I did everything else possible to be completely transparent. The 6 months or so were tough. She would call me on my cell phone and then call me on the room phone right afterwards and at any hour of the day or night. I would check in constantly to let her know where I was, what I was doing, who I was with. Thank God for iPhones! Thanks to "Find My iPhone" and FaceTime she could check in on me anytime she wants. 

The business trips are just one of many areas where caz's husband is going to have to do whatever it takes to rebuild trust. And caz, it does happen and things can get better. 

My wife's checking up on me petered out relatively quickly, but I still do all the things Tacoma noted because I owe her every little bit of piece of mind I can give her. I would still give my life to erase what I did because there are things that once broken can never be repaired but I think I can honestly say that through our reconciliation, our marriage is now stronger on the whole than it had ever been. The subject of my business trips came up again recently and my wife's response was "I don't even think about it, I know that you would never do anything because you are too whipped now." I can hear all the TAM alpha-males cringing at that but it's music to my ears.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Exposing him can force him out of his comfortzone.


That's a rather vague and weak statement.



> _Quite often a WH denies everything and the wife is left with a devastated marriage while hubby just acts like nothing happened.
> 
> Exposure gives enough leverage to prevent that. He needs to change totally, because she needs a remorseful husband or a divorce_.


But according to the OP, he's not in denial about it. And he already says he wants to go to counseling to save the marriage. In this case, I don't see any value of exposure other than revenge. Maybe that's justifiable revenge, but revenge is not the way to go if you are trying to reconcile.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

lostmyreligion said:


> The point is that by exposing at work, he may indirectly be put under the same kind of pressure by his peers as he is on the home front. That is to show some remorse for his actions and *honesty* in all attempts to clean up the mess he made or face being vilified.
> 
> Whether the marriage survives or not.


I travel a lot in my job too, and all I can ask is: *are you serious?? *

I really don't think it's the job of his boss or his co-workers to monitor his love life and make certain he doesn't cheat on his wife again. 

If someone is cheating while on business travel, chances are a lot of his co-workers already know about it, *and the others don't want to know about it*. If someone in my workplace cheated on his wife, why do I need to hear the details? It might be fun to gossip over, but it's not my business, and I'm not his judge. That's between him and his wife (and whatever God he worships).


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Ok, I give in, I overlooked that he admitted and wanted to go to counseling. If that is sincere exposure has to be held back.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> I suppose it may be somewhat contextual. I have seen a fair a amount of marital infidelity in business folk and it has not hurt them professionally. In fact, it can even be seen as a sign of strength and ruthless practicality. Puts an edge on. You are only as good as your last kill.


Absolutely HB. It is contextual and I wouldn't wanna try to pull stats out of my limited experience. That said, my take is that ruthless practicality might be good if your deals are one-off's, but if your goal is a lifetime of milking the cow, killing it to get at it's teats may not be the best long term strategy. Especially if the rest of the herd sees you do it.

I sell consumables into the mining industry. It's massive and it's global but the number of key players you actually deal with is surprisingly small and incredibly mobile. Mostly they know or know of one another, and they all talk. There's actually a very good chance that the guy you killed in a deal at your last mine is going to end up reincarnated on a higher decision making plane at the next.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I travel a lot in my job too, and all I can ask is: *are you serious?? *
> 
> I really don't think it's the job of his boss or his co-workers to monitor his love life and make certain he doesn't cheat on his wife again.
> *I agree*
> ...


The *indirect* pressure I was talking about has to do with how the group he works with perceives him post-exposure (ie untrustworthy) and his subsequent inclusion thereafter. 

The examples I gave were of people who got stepped on by the elephant in the room. 

Apologies for being obtuse.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Caz867 said:


> When he's away, I'm on my own. I have a job which makes me meet a lot of people. I could do whatever, he wouldn't know about it. And yet, I have never strayed. Many opportunities. Never even crossed my mind to cheat.


Try the MC but blow his a$$ out of the water to family, friends the counselor etc.. If you do not make him pay an emotional price chances are he will do it again because he can get away with it. Make him rebuild the trust - so unfair to you.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Why would she think that? If you aren't doing anything wrong I don't see a need to make a big deal of it. If my wife said "I'm going away on business but I won't be cheating on you"...I'd kind of think the exact opposite.
> 
> You're not supposed to cheat..and you don't, the end.


I guess I'm reading more into this that I thought. She already has all my phone and e-mail passwords and I do make sure I buy her something every time I go away. I'm just searching for reasons she's pissed off all the time. Nothing is easy in our marriage I just assume this can't be easy either.


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## Caz867 (Apr 29, 2014)

*Thank you so much for all your feedback*

Thank you so much for all your feedback! I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the replies. A heartfelt thank you. I can't possibly answer or quote all of you but I've taken the time to read everything. Twice!

The young lady is in China. She is a foot massage specialist. Foot massages are a big thing over there and his contact in China recommended that place. The first time, a few of them from the office all went together. Often they have foot massage stations at the work place too. She is single and has a young baby daughter. I can't help but think she saw in him her ticket out of China...

I tend not to want our kids to know. Whatever happens down the line, he is their father and I would like the kids to have a relationship with him. To drag him in the mud would only taint their relationship. Perhaps destroy it completely.

At least we can sit down and talk about stuff calmly. It's very hard to get him to open up. He was always like that. He doesn't show his vulnerable side often. Even to me. He said he's been dreading getting older. He feels his youth is a thing of the past. He's afraid one day he'll be an old man, unattractive, unwanted. He's not sure he has accomplished everything he wanted yet and finds there is a lot more behind him than *ahead* of him. This thought is very unsettling to him. I'm so looking forward to be a grandma one day (I'm ready now!! :smthumbup but my husband cringes at the mere thought of being a grandpa. 

Could be a mid life crisis?

We don't look our age. My clients never believe me when I say I have a 32 year old son. I always joke I had him when I was 5 

Opening up here has helped me. I haven't had a decent night of sleep since I discovered his affair. Since I started this thread, I was able to sleep. Therapeutic! 

Also, thank you for the thread 'Welcome TAM CWI'. 

Caz


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

*Re: Thank you so much for all your feedback*



Caz867 said:


> Opening up here has helped me. I haven't had a decent night of sleep since I discovered his affair. Since I started this thread, I was able to sleep. Therapeutic!


That is wonderful


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