# Desperate for advice



## OrangeCrayon (Jul 13, 2015)

My DH and I have been married for 10 years, together for 13. We have been through a lot together. For starters, he had a major illness and several health issues that have stemmed from it. Besides that, it's been things like job issues, financial problems, etc. We stayed strong, however, and loved each other through it all. 

Six years ago we made the mutual decision to start a family. Now we have two children - DS is 6, DD is 4. Having kids definitely changed our relationship, but I never thought it was horrible. I loved him to pieces. We just seemed busier and more tired. 

Several months ago, DH changed almost overnight. He told me he has been very unhappy for a few years. He felt neglected and needed me to put him first all of the time. So I tried. I started doing little things again - getting his coffee cup ready, hiding love notes in his briefcase, I put the kids to bed early so we could have a early night, etc. Unfortunately, he was still miserable. He said he needed more time for himself, for his friends. This life wasn't enough for him. 

At this point, I did the wrong thing and started snooping. I had the gut feeling something else was at play. It turns out, there was a female coworker involved. She and DH had been having lunches, spending 500+ minutes a month on the phone, helping each other with their relationship problems. I confronted him. He said there was nothing physical going on, just a deep friendship. I told him to end the friendship because it was disrespectful to me. 

Months have passed and things haven't gotten better. I found sitters and added weekly date nights to our schedule. It didn't help. His depression has gotten worse. He'd sob uncontrollably some days. There is never any happiness. He never smiles. He lacks any kind of patience for our kids. It's to the point where he barely spends 10 minutes a day with them. We tried marriage counseling and individual therapy. The therapists recommended antidepressants for him. DH refused (and still refuses) to take them. He says he's happier when we're not there - he can think straight, he can do what he wants when he wants, and he feels like himself again. However, when I ask him for a separation, he won't leave. He says he loves us and wants to work things out. He wants us to live our lives and have the kids follow second. He wants 2-3 date nights a week and have the rest of the nights for himself. That leaves no time for him to be with our children and, as a mother, that breaks my heart. 

In the meantime, he's still continuing his relationship with the coworker. He has been out with her twice after I told him not to and continues to call/text her from his work phone so I don't see it on the phone bill. It's so hurtful.

I'm to the point where I just don't know what's left to do. He says I haven't fought for our marriage, but I feel like that's ALL I've been doing for half a year now. Almost every time we talk, it turns into a fight. I love him so, so, so much, but this just isn't a healthy relationship anymore. When he's home, he's never really "there", but he won't leave either. What do I do?!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

File for divorce. You have tried counseling, attempted medication (which he refuses), and tolerated his inappropriate relationship with a female coworker.

No one says you have to actually go through with a divorce, but filing and taking steps to move forward in your life without him in it just may SNAP him back into reality. If he really wants to save this marriage, he HAS to do the hard work. Which includes counseling, medication, and ditching the "friendship" (more likely an EA or PA).

If he doesn't do those three things, you're better off without him anyway.

Sorry you're here .


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you want to keep him, you have to tell his important people - the people whose respect he craves - that he is in an affair. Admit that you two have let the marriage slip due to family, but that you want it to have a second chance. Explain to them that cheating is like an addiction. Tell them to look up PEA chemicals. It's the same 'high' you two felt when YOU were first dating. All humans get it when they first meet someone - can't get enough of each other, overlook their flaws, will give up everything just to get the next 'fix' of that person. Ask his VIPs to tell him they will NOT welcome this woman into their lives because of how it happened. Break up his fantasy that he can just replace you. Ask them to talk to him. Tell them that if he will just give her up, and look at the marriage with you honestly and without the outside influence of the OW, if, after 6 months, he still isn't happy with the marriage, you'll respect his wishes and walk away from the marriage, but that it's not fair to make the decision while he's in the middle of an addiction.

He will be mad that you 'told' on him. That's fine. Good, in fact. It means it worked. Might have woken him up to what he's doing is wrong.

Above all, do NOT agree to let him 'keep' this woman and still get to keep you and the kids. Make it clear if he chooses her, you will go straight to a lawyer and get every dime he has, to raise HIS kids. And he'll never be in y'all's lives again. He'll become a weekend dad and lose his kids' respect, for the rest of their lives. 

He needs to hear this truth. Cheaters always rationalize that people will just go along with their fantasy. You have to clear that up.


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## OrangeCrayon (Jul 13, 2015)

Thank you both for your advice. 

I reached out to family and his VIP's about two months ago for help - mostly because the depression was/still is taking over his life (he's lost about 50 lbs. and his job performance is floundering ... along with so much else). They confronted DH on separate occasions about the OW and his EA. He tells them the same thing he tells me - SHE isn't/was never the issue, I was. He feels that since the kids have been around I've neglected him and he can't forgive me for that. She paid attention to him and made him feel important. She had relationship troubles and he was simply helping her get through it. DH strongly feels he did nothing wrong and isn't guilty of anything. When I first found out about their relationship, he admitted she was starting to develop feelings for him and he had a "crush" on her. He conveniently forgets he said that now. 

She makes me so angry, too. When all this went down, I called her and told her to stay away from my DH. She is 12 years younger with no children. I told her that her actions are affecting two small children and a huge extended family. She never said a word and hung up on me. She also continues to reach out to him for "advice" and invites him out to places. I can't wait for Karma to finally catch up with her. 

I think deep down in my heart I know what I have to do. It just scares the living Hell out of me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you called her parents and told her what she's doing?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I'm so sorry you are in such a miserable situation. It sounds like you are probably doing everything you can. A few things I might ask -- please don't take offense, I don't know anything about you. 

He is having an emotional affair. Sometimes this is caused because (correctly or not) he feels he cannot talk to you. Are you able to listen to him without getting upset of judgmental - even if the things he is saying might be good cause for either?

Was the sexual part of your relationship OK before he started drifting away? Sometimes lack of intimacy is a symptom but sometimes it is a cause. Are you compatible?

Was he enthusiastic about children himself, or do you think he mostly did it for you?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

If he won't drop OW then your only realistic recourse is divorce.


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## OrangeCrayon (Jul 13, 2015)

No. I haven't taken it to that level yet. 

I have also tried the six month proposition. We haven't been able to get 2 months in a row without her interfering in our lives. 

DH messes with my head. There are days when I'm convinced that what he did/continues to do is wrong and that I have to walk away for my own sake as well as for my children. Then we talk and he has me second guessing myself - Was what he did really that bad? Do I throw away 10 years of marriage for his "addiction" to her? Am I blowing this out of proportion? 

It's been six months of this awful cycle -- I forgive DH, I try to make this work, then I find out he took the OW out or spoke to her after work hours, I tell him it's over, he refuses to end things with us, and says he'll change and start his meds, and then we go around again. (He has NEVER started meds.) We've been through this cycle 4 times. It's maddening. 

We're at the end of the 4th round now. Things were getting better. DH was ready to start his meds, we were talking again, finances are looking up, we were about to plan a mini vacation together (just he and I), and then at midnight a few days ago she texted him. Apparently she missed her ex-fiancé and wanted my DH to help her get through her night. I confronted him and he confessed they're still talking about their relationship issues. She confided in him and he told her he's in therapy and that we're still having problems. He says she's his friend and he has to help her through her pain. I said, "So you'll help this OW through her pain even though it causes your wife pain?" He had no response. I told him to rethink who his "friends" are. 

I'm at the end of my rope. I don't think I can go through a round 5.


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## OrangeCrayon (Jul 13, 2015)

Gus - Sadly, I feel that's where this is headed.

Richard - Intimacy-wise, things were fantastic before this happened. In fact, the last year was better than it had been since we were dating. 

As far as kids, we were married for 4 years before we had them. I thought it was a mutual decision. I NEVER pressured him. However, last month he confessed that he was not ready to have children. He agreed because I had done so much for him (through his illnesses) and he wanted to make me happy. 

I do listen to him without judgement as much as I can. I confess that it's very difficult. Sometimes he says things that upset me so much (especially about our children - mostly his resentment toward them for "stealing his wife") it's hard to stay calm. It's an area I'm working on with my therapist.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The ONLY way I've ever seen a woman get her man to stop cheating is to IMMEDIATELY file for divorce and show him that he's about to lose EVERYTHING.

Please trust us. Men cheat SO that they can have two women fight over them. Men need ego strokes and you're feeding it to him by the shovelful. Until you tell him GET OUT and HERE'S THE DIVORCE PAPERS, you don't have a chance in hell of saving your marriage.

You can always cancel the divorce down the road. But it is the only thing he will recognize.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Your H is a classic cake-eater. He wants to have his family, and his relationship with OW.

Up until now, you have allowed this to occur. So, are you going to continue to allow it? The only way to stop it is to file for D. Have him served at work.

This might snap him back to reality. If it doesn't, then you're better off without him. Follow through with your D and take him to the cleaners.

BTW, don't believe for an instant the OW is "just a friend".

I'm going to post some links from Chumplady's site. She can be a good resource for you:

The Unified Theory of Cake - ChumpLady.com

The Humiliating Dance of ?Pick Me?! - ChumpLady.com

Dear Chump Lady, He's worried about his girlfriend, WTF? - ChumpLady.com

You've come to a good place. Many of us have been in your shoes. Remember to eat, and start exercising as a way to deal with the stress situation you are going through.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
What you must do is to stop expecting mature responses from this individual. He is jealous of his own children and the amount of attention you give them? So how much does he give them? He is behaving as a spoiled child. How does finding another woman resolve his issue of you not paying him enough attention? Is it your attention he desires or just female attention? There are any number of ways of solving an issue that do not involve deceit, treachery and betrayal but his immature mind was not capable of utilizing any of those methods.

Expecting him to change is akin to expecting rational, reasonable actions from your 4 and 6 year old. It is possible but highly improbable and certainly not sustainable long term. I regret that this is the case but sadly, it is. You can try whatever method you believe will work but I believe that the only course of action that will provide results would be to discipline him as you would a child. He must feel pain or loss as a direct consequence for his behavior. Short of that, he really has no motivation to behave differently. It is clear that his feelings for his family and for you are not sufficient.

Some have recommended D and implementing the "180" plan and that may have some effect, depending on how important losing his family is to him. It does not seem to terribly important but perhaps it is. In any event, you must find something that he really desires very deeply, or at least thinks he does and figure out how to use that as leverage to force his behavior to change. The way to discipline a child, short of corporal punishment, is to take away or deny them something they really want and I fear your H may be physically too large for a spanking, although that is exactly what he needs.

Sadly, the tools of reason and logic are not available to you when dealing with him so you must use what has the highest probability of success, pain. Conversely, you may wish to just disassociate yourself from him and let him flounder along without you. A difficult decision if you still feel deeply for him. I wish you good fortune in you endeavor


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## OrangeCrayon (Jul 13, 2015)

Thank you, everyone, for your support and advice. It's given me strength I didn't know I had. You are all so right with everything you said. I realized that by me trying to make things better, I've actually been catering to his ego and made things worse. This is in no way over, but knowing I have an unbiased support system here helps me tremendously. Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

OrangeCrayon said:


> Thank you, everyone, for your support and advice. It's given me strength I didn't know I had. You are all so right with everything you said. I realized that by me trying to make things better, I've actually been catering to his ego and made things worse. This is in no way over, but knowing I have an unbiased support system here helps me tremendously. Thank you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really feel for you. I think you've done absolutely everything you can, and should file for divorce. As has been said, it doesn't mean you have to follow through with it, but something has to shock this man into reality!!! He's very, very selfish .


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