# Proud of my youngest daughter,she came out



## greatgal

Proud of my youngest daughter,she came out about something about herself.At 14,she has been doing great figuring out herself.It has been with her orientation.Came out to me on Monday after I came home from work.I came home and told me she had to come out about something.Went in her room and we talked a little bit at first.Finally came out she is gay,a lesbian.Looked at me and said that.I looked at her and told her I love her no matter with my support.Knows I will never reject her at all and this is her.


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## DownByTheRiver

greatgal said:


> Proud of my youngest daughter,she came out about something about herself.At 14,she has been doing great figuring out herself.It has been with her orientation.Came out to me on Monday after I came home from work.I came home and told me she had to come out about something.Went in her room and we talked a little bit at first.Finally came out she is gay,a lesbian.Looked at me and said that.I looked at her and told her I love her no matter with my support.Knows I will never reject her at all and this is her.


Have you ever wondered if she might be saying that because her sibling got so much attention over similar? You know how siblings compete. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.


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## greatgal

DownByTheRiver said:


> Have you ever wondered if she might be saying that because her sibling got so much attention over similar? You know how siblings compete. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.


No,my oldest whom is transgender helped her come out.Asked her how to do it


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## DownByTheRiver

greatgal said:


> No,my oldest whom is transgender helped her come out.Asked her how to do it


It seems to be an epidemic in your household, and I don't believe too much in coincidences and especially when it's all talking about teenagers because they're so easily influenced. They copy what other people do. Anyway no harm with her coming out but she may change her mind in the next few years.


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## DudeInProgress

So, in the midst of your separation/divorce, your teenage son decides that he wants to be a girl, and wants to start hormone transitioning at 16, which you enthusiastically support. You seem almost giddy about it.

And within weeks (if that) your younger daughter (who also has pituitary dwarfism, if I’m keeping all the straight) announces that she’s gay, which you were are also extraordinarily proud of.

As a natural occurrence, this is highly implausible. 
So if this is all on the level, there is likely some kind of a perverse ideological influence being exerted on your children. Either by you or others. And considering the unusual extent of your over-enthusiasm you’re expressing for all of this…


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## ThatDarnGuy!

All of this sudden and radical change in the family feels like things are not going as well as they seem. There is no one or nothing on this Earth that would get me to support a teenager getting hormone injections. 

I think your kids need counseling to deal with all the new changes.


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## Dictum Veritas

No, those poor kids are being misguided. I think this is a case for CPS to investigate. I weep for the kids.


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## greatgal

Dictum Veritas said:


> No, those poor kids are being misguided. I think this is a case for CPS to investigate. I weep for the kids.
> [/QUOT
> Not misguided,discovering themselves


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## Dictum Veritas

Yeah, well, no fine. No wonder the West is in the state it's in.


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## Numb26

All the Cool kids are doing it


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## SunCMars

2 x 4's

The cruel kind, when none are expected.

Society has come to this place, out of the blue.

The sad and blue space.

I dislike this Era.

I think I will return to an earlier one.

One more comfortable with all that is Magic.


*The Red Queen-*


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## BigDaddyNY

greatgal said:


> Not misguided,discovering themselves


Although it is possible this all occurred organically, don't you find it odd at all that you have a son that has become a transgender girl, at 15, and now a daughter that has come out as lesbian, at 14? As a mom you should accept your kids for who they are, but that doesn't mean you should stop providing guidance at all. You are saying your 15 year old trans child has taken their extensive life experience  and used it to mentor his younger sister and help her figure her 14 year old self out as being lesbian. Do you not see how crazy all this is?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

BigDaddyNY said:


> Although it is possible this all occurred organically, don't you find it odd at all that you have a son that has become a transgender girl, at 15, and now a daughter that has come out as lesbian, at 14? As a mom you should accept your kids for who they are, but that doesn't mean you should stop providing guidance at all. You are saying your 15 year old trans child has taken their extensive life experience  and used it to mentor his younger sister and help her figure her 14 year old self out as being lesbian. Do you not see how crazy all this is?


This can't be real.


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## Dictum Veritas

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This can't be real.


Sadly, all too many people are this agenda programed that they will encourage and celebrate the destruction of their children in the name of wokeness.

This is how the new, offering your children to Moloch looks like. It's a blood sacrifice that destroys the soul without the mercy of a quick end.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Dictum Veritas said:


> Sadly, all too many people are this agenda program that they will encourage and celebrate the destruction of their children in the name of wokeness.
> 
> This is how the new, offering your children to Moloch looks like. It's a blood sacrifice that destroys the soul without the mercy of a quick end.


Is true.


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## RandomDude

Yeah, TAM is not the right place to fish for woke points 😅

Its your household, though I would plead that you lay off medical or surgical gender affirming care for your eldest until she's 18


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## LisaDiane

It sounds to me like you are actually more proud of YOURSELF, and you want us all to be as well.


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## Numb26

LisaDiane said:


> It sounds to me like you are actually more proud of YOURSELF, and you want us all to be as well.


^^^This. Almost like signaling


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## Dictum Veritas

Numb26 said:


> ^^^This. Almost like signaling


Almost? No it is exactly just that and I am not impressed, disgusted perhaps, but not impressed at all.


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## Ursula

@greatgal, I loved your original post, and was going to say something to the effect of "good for you, the world needs more accepting parents like you!" Then someone mentioned the sexual orientation of your oldest child, so I went back to that thread and read the whole thing. 

I agree with others, I'm sorry, you guys need some family counselling and both your children need individual therapy specializing in gender and sexuality. I watch the show "I am Jazz" and love that girl, but she also advocates for mental wellness, and that's what's missing here. OK, your one child is a lesbian, but your other is taking meds that can greatly affect their future if they change their mind about their sexuality. Get some professional help for your family, and go from there.


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## greatgal

Ursula said:


> @greatgal, I loved your original post, and was going to say something to the effect of "good for you, the world needs more accepting parents like you!" Then someone mentioned the sexual orientation of your oldest child, so I went back to that thread and read the whole thing.
> 
> I agree with others, I'm sorry, you guys need some family counselling and both your children need individual therapy specializing in gender and sexuality. I watch the show "I am Jazz" and love that girl, but she also advocates for mental wellness, and that's what's missing here. OK, your one child is a lesbian, but your other is taking meds that can greatly affect their future if they change their mind about their sexuality. Get some professional help for your family, and go from there.


Do not need it,going to.be a waste of time


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## BigDaddyNY

greatgal said:


> Do not need it,going to.be a waste of time


What is a waste of time? Professional help? If that is what you meant, then you are a sorry excuse for a parent. Go ahead and let your 15 and 14 year olds run the show. Be a negligent parent and let them figure themselves out. Really sad.


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## Diana7

greatgal said:


> Proud of my youngest daughter,she came out about something about herself.At 14,she has been doing great figuring out herself.It has been with her orientation.Came out to me on Monday after I came home from work.I came home and told me she had to come out about something.Went in her room and we talked a little bit at first.Finally came out she is gay,a lesbian.Looked at me and said that.I looked at her and told her I love her no matter with my support.Knows I will never reject her at all and this is her.


A lot of young people go through a stage of having some sort of attraction towards a same sex teacher or friend. It doesn't mean they are gay and the vast majority aren't. 
It's highly likely that your daughter isn't.


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## Ursula

greatgal said:


> Do not need it,going to.be a waste of time


Nope, not at all. Working to understand or better oneself is NEVER a waste of time. Much luck to your son/daughter, and I truly hope for the sake of everyone involved that this situation works out with the best outcome possible. I'm sorry that you came here looking for validation for yourself, and were instead met with genuine concern for your son/daughter's health and wellbeing.


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## greatgal

It is,my therapist says so.Has talked to them and seen no problems with the


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## greatgal

BigDaddyNY said:


> What is a waste of time? Professional help? If that is what you meant, then you are a sorry excuse for a parent. Go ahead and let your 15 and 14 year olds run the show. Be a negligent parent and let them figure themselves out. Really sad.


It is and my therapist said this.Has talked to them and sees no issues with them


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## OnTheRocks




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## Dictum Veritas

Those kids really never stood a chance, did they? The wokeness of those who should have made their future, destroyed their future instead.


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## DudeInProgress

Dictum Veritas said:


> Those kids really never stood a chance, did they? The wokeness of those who should have made their future, destroyed their future instead.


One can’t help but get the strong impression that she actually WANTS this for her children.

It’s utterly tragic.


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## Diana7

greatgal said:


> It is and my therapist said this.Has talked to them and sees no issues with them


Sadly what a therapist says is often nonsense.


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## RandomDude

OnTheRocks said:


> View attachment 87038


 Hahaha



Dictum Veritas said:


> Those kids really never stood a chance, did they? The wokeness of those who should have made their future, destroyed their future instead.


Not a chance, and it is spreading across the known world.


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## In Absentia

greatgal said:


> It is,my therapist says so.Has talked to them and seen no problems with the


Whatever the difficulties are, keep supporting your children. The most important thing. Follow your heart, not people on a forum. You know your children best.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Whatever the difficulties are, keep supporting your children. The most important thing. Follow your heart, not people on a forum. You know your children best.


The trouble is that children are being greatly influenced by other children, schools and rubbish they read on line. I heard a child(heterosexual and happy with their sex) saying recently that its cool not to be heterosexual now. That kids are thinking that changing sex or declaring they are gay will solve their problems.

High numbers of autistic kids are being swept up in this, it's heartbreaking and a very very troubling. Many already know they have made a mistake and wanting to de-transition after surgery and drugs . We are going to have so many people wanting to do that and having life long issues because of the surgery that has drastically changed their bodies. Some had their breasts removed. It's just evil what is going on.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> The trouble is that children are being greatly influenced by other children, schools and rubbish they read on line. I heard a child(heterosexual and happy with their sex) saying recently that its cool not to be heterosexual now. That kids are thinking that changing sex or declaring they are gay will solve their problems.
> 
> High numbers of autistic kids are being swept up in this, it's heartbreaking and a very very troubling. Many already know they have made a mistake and wanting to de-transition after surgery and drugs . We are going to have so many people wanting to do that and having life long issues because of the surgery that has drastically changed their bodies. Some had their breasts removed. It's just evil what is going on.


I agree, children need to be properly assessed, but this is up to the medical profession. I believe they will. The other child came out as gay... what do you suggest the mother is going to do about this?


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> I agree, children need to be properly assessed, but this is up to the medical profession. I believe they will. The other child came out as gay... what do you suggest the mother is going to do about this?


Tell her that its common for children of that age to have feelings for an opposite sex person but that it usually passes. I would be praying hard as well.


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## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> A lot of young people go through a stage of having some sort of attraction towards a same sex teacher or friend. It doesn't mean they are gay and the vast majority aren't.


They do?


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## minimalME

In Absentia said:


> …but this is up to the medical profession.


😳


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## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> They do?


Yes, not necessarily sexual but often emotional. I remember reading about it years ago. I have also heard several people speaking about it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> A lot of young people go through a stage of having some sort of attraction towards a same sex teacher or friend. It doesn't mean they are gay and the vast majority aren't.
> It's highly likely that your daughter isn't.


Wow. That's never come up.
And none ever brought that up when I was in school. Or my children.
I'd have to call BS on that.

Now, we had some hot female teachers. Much different story, boys were very focused then.


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## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Wow. That's never come up.
> And none ever brought that up when I was in school. Or my children.
> I'd have to call BS on that.
> 
> Now, we had some hot female teachers. Much different story, boys were very focused then.


It happens even if it didn't happen to you. Boys usually wouldn't have admitted it back then either I guess. Now they just think they are gay if it happens which is sad as it nearly always passes.


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## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> 😳


Can't tell what your smiley face is...


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## In Absentia

We will be saying that being gay is an illness in a minute... like the mass shootings are all the Mexicans' fault in the guns thread...


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## minimalME

In Absentia said:


> Can't tell what your smiley face is...


The only thing that medical doctors do in these situations is play frankenstein.

There is no objective medical evidence for transgenderism. There are no physical manifestations. 

People 'diagnose' themselves, and then they find someone who'll corroborate the story they've created.

It's a denial of reality for people who're way too self-absorbed - they're trying to control things out of their control.


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## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> The only thing that medical doctors do in these situations is play frankenstein.
> 
> There is no objective medical evidence for transgenderism. There are no physical manifestations.
> 
> People 'diagnose' themselves, and then they find someone who'll corroborate the story they've created.
> 
> It's a denial of reality for people who're way too self-absorbed - they're trying to control things out of their control.


It's very strictly controlled in the UK, through the Gender Identity Clinics. You just don't find "someone"... I don't know where you live, though.


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## minimalME

In Absentia said:


> It's very strictly controlled in the UK, through the Gender Identity Clinics. You just don't find "someone"... I don't know where you live, though.


Right. Gender Identity Clinics. 

Like the 'official' person from the Ohio elementary school handbook that I posted recently - the Equity and Inclusion Program with a Diversity Equity and Inclusion Supervisor.

Society can create whatever titles and programs and clinics it likes, but none of this makes any of it true.


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## Evinrude58

In Absentia said:


> We will be saying that being gay is an illness in a minute... like the mass shootings are all the Mexicans' fault in the guns thread...


Well, since you said it…….
I certainly will agree with you that the transgender stuff is mental illness, along with the mentally ill that operate and support disfiguring 15 year olds and possibly causing them cancer by giving them hormones.


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## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> It's very strictly controlled in the UK, through the Gender Identity Clinics. You just don't find "someone"... I don't know where you live, though.


You are still, in the end, leaving this up to a child to make a life altering decision. Yes they are being guided by adults, but that means they are potentially influenced by the adults. None of those adults know what that child will really want once they are mentally mature adults themselves. And I think many of those adults are either too quick to agree with gender reassignment or afraid to push back too hard against it. Sexual orientation is one thing. It can be fluid as a person ages and matures and exploring it causes no permanent physical changes in a person. Gender reassignment, affirmation or whatever name you want to give it, is completely different. I think it was @LisaDiane that posted a link to an article in the other thread. Among other stories, a girl had a double mastectomy at 16 as part of gender assignment and regrets it. That decision could have waited a few year till she was mature enough to understand fully what she was doing.


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## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> Right. Gender Identity Clinics.
> 
> Like the 'official' person from the Ohio elementary school handbook that I posted recently - the Equity and Inclusion Program with a Diversity Equity and Inclusion Supervisor.
> 
> Society can create whatever titles and programs and clinics it likes, but none of this makes any of it true.


These are NHS clinics...





__





Primary Care Responsibilities in Prescribing and Monitoring Hormone Therapy for Transgender and Non-Binary Adults - NECS Medicines Optimisation


Transgender and non-binary people will spend a relatively short time under the care of a specialist Gender Identity Clinic. General Practitioners therefore have an important role in the ongoing care of patients when they no longer have a need for specialised gender identity services. The...




medicines.necsu.nhs.uk


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## ThatDarnGuy!

In Absentia said:


> It's very strictly controlled in the UK, through the Gender Identity Clinics. You just don't find "someone"... I don't know where you live, though.


Allowing children to take puberty blocking drugs and hormones to let them believe it's possible to become the opposite sex is stupidity on steroids. To me, it's child abuse and I think it should be illegal and automatic permanent suspension of medical license. Kids are in no position to make lifetime permanent decisions about their bodies. Kids also become fixated on and lose interest in various ideas about as often as the weather changes.

It also places a huge burden on these children financially. These meds are not cheap on a monthly basis. What happens if they can't get them 3-4 years down the road? Also what happens as they grow, mature and think wow, that was a stupid idea? There is no going back. Dating and relationships are going to be very difficult as well. The vast majority of people are not going to date/marry a trans. It's not hate or discrimination, it's science. A man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man. Hormones will help disguise traits of a certain gender, but stop the hormones and see what happens.


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## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> You are still, in the end, leaving this up to a child to make a life altering decision. Yes they are being guided by adults, but that means they are potentially influenced by the adults. None of those adults know what that child will really want once they are mentally mature adults themselves. And I think many of those adults are either too quick to agree with gender reassignment or afraid to push back too hard against it. Sexual orientation is one thing. It can be fluid as a person ages and matures and exploring it causes no permanent physical changes in a person. Gender reassignment, affirmation or whatever name you want to give it, is completely different. I think it was @LisaDiane that posted a link to an article in the other thread. Among other stories, a girl had a double mastectomy at 16 as part of gender assignment and regrets it. That decision could have waited a few year till she was mature enough to understand fully what she was doing.


You are wrong... read what I posted above...

_In recent cases some General Practitioners have declined to accept the advice of the specialist Gender Identity Clinic and have refused to prescribe and monitor drug treatments for the treatment of gender dysphoria in people with gender incongruence and trans and non-binary identity._


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## In Absentia

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Allowing children to take puberty blocking drugs and hormones to let them believe it's possible to become the opposite sex is stupidity on steroids. To me, it's child abuse and I think it should be illegal and automatic permanent suspension of medical license. Kids are in no position to make lifetime permanent decisions about their bodies. Kids also become fixated on and lose interest in various ideas about as often as the weather changes.
> 
> It also places a huge burden on these children financially. These meds are not cheap on a monthly basis. What happens if they can't get them 3-4 years down the road? Also what happens as they grow, mature and think wow, that was a stupid idea? There is no going back. Dating and relationships are going to be very difficult as well. The vast majority of people are not going to date/marry a trans. It's not hate or discrimination, it's science. A man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man. Hormones will help disguise traits of a certain gender, but stop the hormones and see what happens.


They don't make the decision...I think people should inform themselves before coming out with clearly untrue blanket statements.


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## In Absentia

Evinrude58 said:


> Well, since you said it…….
> I certainly will agree with you that the transgender stuff is mental illness, along with the mentally ill that operate and support disfiguring 15 year olds and possibly causing them cancer by giving them hormones.


Of course, you are entitled to your opinions.


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## ThatDarnGuy!

In Absentia said:


> They don't make the decision...I think people should inform themselves before coming out with clearly untrue blanket statements.


Facts don't care about feelings.... Until the day comes that a naturally born male can go through transition and become pregnant through sex or, a DNA test shows female, it's rubbish and just doctors butchering bodies.


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## DudeInProgress

In Absentia said:


> These are NHS clinics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Primary Care Responsibilities in Prescribing and Monitoring Hormone Therapy for Transgender and Non-Binary Adults - NECS Medicines Optimisation
> 
> 
> Transgender and non-binary people will spend a relatively short time under the care of a specialist Gender Identity Clinic. General Practitioners therefore have an important role in the ongoing care of patients when they no longer have a need for specialised gender identity services. The...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medicines.necsu.nhs.uk


Well, as long as the government says so…


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## Rob_1

As most everything, Mother Nature's designs being tampered and or outright altered by humans. 

We all know where that will get us.


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## Dictum Veritas

Rob_1 said:


> As most everything, Mother Nature's designs being tampered and or outright altered by humans.
> 
> We all know where that will get us.


The woke will always know better. Everyone can be a princess or prince and in extreme cases the frog or a "Happy" candle, after all Disney Corporation told them so... It's gotta be real!


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## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> You are wrong... read what I posted above...
> 
> _In recent cases some General Practitioners have declined to accept the advice of the specialist Gender Identity Clinic and have refused to prescribe and monitor drug treatments for the treatment of gender dysphoria in people with gender incongruence and trans and non-binary identity._


That article you posted applies specifically to adults. Nothing is every mentioned about children.


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## Rob_1

Let's put it this way, if my messed up brain tells me that I am a bird, and I try to fly by jumping from a skyscraper, well, we know where that will get me. Surely I won't be soaring the skies under a rainbow.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> We will be saying that being gay is an illness in a minute... like the mass shootings are all the Mexicans' fault in the guns thread...


I have noticed that ALL the gay men we know and have known (which is quite a few), were all sexually abused by men as children. Very sad really.


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## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> I have noticed that all the gay men we know and have known (which is quite a few), were all sexually abused by men as children. Very sad really.


I have seen the same trend amongst my gay friends


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I have seen the same trend amongst my gay friends


People hate it when you say this, as apparently gay men are all 'born this way'. However its almost inevitable that children who are sexually abused will be damaged in some way and their sexuality skewed.


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## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> People hate it when you say this, as apparently gay men are all 'born this way'. However its almost inevitable that children who are sexually abused will be damaged in some way and their sexuality skewed.


I am not sure there is a correlation but all of my gay male friends were also raised by single moms.


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## In Absentia

DudeInProgress said:


> Well, as long as the government says so…


It's not the government, it's our health service. You know, doctors and nurses.


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## In Absentia

There is so much ignorance in this thread that it's scary. Just spewing nasty stereotypes. Waste of time. I'm out.


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## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> I have noticed that ALL the gay men we know and have known (which is quite a few), were all sexually abused by men as children. Very sad really.


I have not seen this trend.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

In Absentia said:


> There is so much ignorance in this thread that it's scary. Just spewing nasty stereotypes. Waste of time. I'm out.


There was nothing good going to come out of this thread. Popcorn merit only.


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## Rob_1

although the pathways that lead to a developing fetus to end up being homosexual, is not clearly understood scientifically, some, such as sex gametes, being altered with either an extra chromosome, or a segment of a sex chromosome, then you will have the various anomalies that form the various phenotypic representations of the abnormal genotypic sex chromosome. Some are viable some are not. Then, you have the ones where the sex gametes seem normal, but the individual is homosexual. Here is where mother nature is working its way for population control. this is the theory, that so far, from a biological point of view makes sense to me. As observed in studied populations of various species, the more overpopulation, the more cannibalistic, violent, and excess of homosexuality is seem. 
A true homosexual is borne. There are individuals that show homosexual tendencies and/or practices due to various social factors, such as sex abuse when a child, social degeneration, due to certain social environments, but this are learned behaviors that make the individual to practice homosexuality, but are not truly a homosexual, they can revert back to heterosexuality at any time as perceived by the individual.

The more humans don't learn the repercussions of what Mother Nature tell us to do, the more genetically undesirable individuals that will be borne. You marry an individual that shows signs of mental illness and procreate with that individual, then what do yo expect? a mentally healthy progeny?


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I am not sure there is a correlation but all of my gay male friends were also raised by single moms.


That certainly wouldn't help as they often have no male role model to learn from. Their only parental influence is a feminine one.


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## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> I have noticed that ALL the gay men we know and have known (which is quite a few), were all sexually abused by men as children. Very sad really.


Don't make us read between the lines. What are you implying here, in directly language please.


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## Diana7

Cletus said:


> Don't make us read between the lines. What are you implying here, in directly language please.


Just telling you of our observations with those we know and have known.


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## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Just telling you of our observations with those we know and have known.


Don't be disingenuous. You think those observations imply something deeper than just "the people I've known". What is it?


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## DudeInProgress

Cletus said:


> Don't be disingenuous. You think those observations imply something deeper than just "the people I've known". What is it?


It implies that perhaps there is an environmental component. And?


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

When I was a toddler/young girl/teenager I would play with boys toys, guns, steam engines, train sets, knives, football and didn't like dolls and found girls toys boring. I had 3 older brothers and I dressed like a Tom boy. I got on better with boys than girls and wanted to be a boy because I thought boys were cool. As I got older around 14/15 I started fancying boys and going on dates and naturally all those other feelings etc disappeared. I stopped dressing like a Tom boy once I left high-school. I'd be concerned today that I would have been told I can be a boy if I want. My young brain would have thought that was cool. It's scary that children are going through this treatment etc while still at school. Children change their mind like the weather. It should be raised to 21 because those few years could make a huge difference.


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## Diana7

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> When I was a toddler/young girl/teenager I would play with boys toys, guns, steam engines, train sets, knives, football and didn't like dolls and found girls toys boring. I had 3 older brothers and I dressed like a Tom boy. I got on better with boys than girls and wanted to be a boy because I thought boys were cool. As I got older around 14/15 I started fancying boys and going on dates and naturally all those other feelings etc disappeared. I stopped dressing like a Tom boy once I left high-school. I'd be concerned today that I would have been told I can be a boy if I want. My young brain would have thought that was cool. It's scary that children are going through this treatment etc while still at school. Children change their mind like the weather. It should be raised to 21 because those few years could make a huge difference.


I was exactly the same. When I was about 5 I used to even pray that I would wake up a boy. I had no interest in girls toys, wanted to play with the boys. All my friend at infants school were boys. I had no fear of anything. I would be up the highest tree, wanted to ride the largest horse, run the fastest, go on the highest playground equipment. I was always coming home from school with badly grazed knees, lumps and bumps on my head etc etc. I just thank God that I lived in a time when that was normal, and that I had sensible wise parents who knew it would pass. Of coursed it passed.


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## Diana7

Cletus said:


> Don't be disingenuous. You think those observations imply something deeper than just "the people I've known". What is it?


Children who are sexually abused as children have their sexuality skewed and they are damaged.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Diana7 said:


> I was exactly the same. When I was about 5 I used to even pray that I would wake up a boy. I had no interest in girls toys, wanted to play with the boys. All my friend at infants school were boys. I had no fear of anything. I would be up the highest tree, wanted to ride the largest horse, run the fastest, go on the highest playground equipment. I was always coming home from school with badly grazed knees, lumps and bumps on my head etc etc. I just thank God that I lived in a time when that was normal, and that I had sensible wise parents who knew it would pass. Of coursed it passed.


All what you wrote sounds like my childhood too. I was born in 1967 and we could just be like children. I'd be out all day and home before dark. Coming home covered in mud and cuts and bruises, feel sad for the children of today. I worry for my grandkids futures. I'm seeing lots of people around losing their minds, being aggressive, violent, abusive and it's getting worse.


----------



## LisaDiane

Diana7 said:


> Children who are sexually abused as children have their sexuality skewed and they are damaged.


Of course they are. But EVERYONE has their sexuality "skewed" (which means "influenced") by their environment and FOO. That's part of being a social creature.

I can't see how it matters IF environmental factors do influence a small percentage of people to be homosexual...as long as they are capable of loving someone in a healthy manner while also loving themselves, where is the harm?


----------



## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> Of course they are. But EVERYONE has their sexuality "skewed" (which means "influenced") by their environment and FOO. That's part of being a social creature.
> 
> I can't see how it matters IF environmental factors do influence a small percentage of people to be homosexual...as long as they are capable of loving someone in a healthy manner while also loving themselves, where is the harm?


If their sexuality was skewed(not influenced but damaged) so badly by childhood sexual abuse then they are not going to have the attractions that they would have had and that's sad. Their attractions are almost certainly due to the abuse they suffered by men.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> If their sexuality was skewed(not influenced but damaged) so badly by childhood sexual abuse then they are not going to have the attractions that they would have had and that's sad. Their attractions are almost certainly due to the abuse they suffered by men.


these are your theories… you don’t become gay because you were abused when you were a child. Please don’t spread false and damaging information.


----------



## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> That article you posted applies specifically to adults. Nothing is every mentioned about children.


these are the guidelines and apply to everyone, regardless of the age.


----------



## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> There was nothing good going to come out of this thread. Popcorn merit only.


You know why. TAM has become an unbearable place where the usual people bully everybody with their extreme views, accusing everyone of wokeness, denigrating gay people, transgenders, anybody who is slightly different from the white gun-toting right wing American. You just don’t see it. You are just driving everybody away and are happy to talk amongst yourselves. This place is a desert. I won’t engage in any discussion over this. BTW, you as in general you.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> these are your theories… you don’t become gay because you were abused when you were a child. Please don’t spread false and damaging information.


Being sexually abused as a child can give you same sex attraction and I am not the only one who says that. Many others have said the same. 
I remember reading a qualified counsellor saying that a much greater percentage of gay men were sexually abused than straight men. Seems clear to me.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> You know why. TAM has become an unbearable place where the usual people bully everybody with their extreme views, accusing everyone of wokeness, denigrating gay people, transgenders, anybody who is slightly different from the white gun-toting right wing American. You just don’t see it. You are just driving everybody away and are happy to talk amongst yourselves. This place is a desert. I won’t engage in any discussion over this. BTW, you as in general you.


This is a discussion forum. We get a very wide range of views from a very wide range of people. I haven't seen anyone denegrating or attacking either gays or transexuals, more being troubled at the damaging influences that our children face today.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

In Absentia said:


> You know why. TAM has become an unbearable place where the usual people bully everybody with their extreme views, accusing everyone of wokeness, denigrating gay people, transgenders, anybody who is slightly different from the white gun-toting right wing American. You just don’t see it. You are just driving everybody away and are happy to talk amongst yourselves. This place is a desert. I won’t engage in any discussion over this. BTW, you as in general you.


I don't feel I did that at all. I actually have had trans friends in the past and am very open minded about it. Doesn't mean I agree with doing things to teens before their brain is developed fully and their hormones are settled into adulthood. That is just common sense.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Being sexually abused as a child can give you same sex attraction and I am not the only one who says that. Many others have said the same.
> I remember reading a qualified counsellor saying that a much greater percentage of gay men were sexually abused than straight men. Seems clear to me.


An undergraduate course in statistics is all one needs to understand that it is also quite possible that the correlation, if one exists, goes the other way. 

Perhaps young gay boys are outsized targets for sexual predators.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Children who are sexually abused as children have their sexuality skewed and they are damaged.


Ok, thanks. Combining this with other comments (all the gays I know...), it would seem that you think many/most/nearly all gay men are a creation of sexual abuse. Would that be fair to say?


----------



## RandomDude

Who gives a crap who people fk with their consent. Sheez there's even male heteros out there who take it up the ass and still reckon they ain't gay. You know who you are! 😋


----------



## RandomDude

Diana7 said:


> This is a discussion forum. We get a very wide range of views from a very wide range of people. I haven't seen anyone denegrating or attacking either gays or transexuals, more being troubled at the damaging influences that our children face today.


Me either, I like the range of opinions. Learn alot too. Think people should take political opinions less personally in general but if that's the case talking politics wouldn't be so taboo, it can be difficult to discuss in RL too.


----------



## ccpowerslave

RandomDude said:


> Who gives a crap who people fk with their consent. Sheez there's even male heteros out there who take it up the ass and still reckon they ain't gay. You know who you are! 😋


People post this occasionally. It reminds me of an old meme, “What was the gay part?” A: “The ****.”


----------



## RandomDude

ccpowerslave said:


> People post this occasionally. It reminds me of an old meme, “What was the gay part?” A: “The ****.”


Hahahaha


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> An undergraduate course in statistics is all one needs to understand that it is also quite possible that the correlation, if one exists, goes the other way.
> 
> Perhaps young gay boys are outsized targets for sexual predators.


 Wow, so they were targeted because they were gay? I can't believe you just said that. 😩
These were largely prepubescent children not teens. They wouldn't have even known about being gay at 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. In some cases it was their dad who abused them, so no it was not that they were gay in anyway. Pedophiles target any children they have access to. They aren't intetested in young teenage gays(if indeed they are gay), they want young children who haven't developed sexually. Children who have no idea of sex at that age or who they are attracted to.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Wow, so they were targeted because they were gay? I can't believe you just said that. 😩


In matters of science, you'll just have to forgive me if I don't find you authoritative.

"Epidemiological studies find a positive association between childhood maltreatment and same-sex sexuality in adulthood, with lesbians and gay men reporting 1.6 to 4 times greater prevalence of sexual and physical abuse than heterosexuals (Corliss, Cochran, & Mays, 2002; Hughes, Haas, Razzano, Cassidy, & Matthews, 2000; Roberts, Austin, Corliss, Vandermorris, & Koenen, 2010; Saewyc et al., 2006). Four explanations have been proposed for this association. The first is that nascent same-sex sexuality causes childhood maltreatment, through two pathways: (1) adolescents who reveal their same-sex sexual orientation are targeted for maltreatment (D’Augelli & Grossman, 2001; Saewyc et al., 2006); and (2) adolescents exploring same-sex attractions may put themselves in risky situations, increasing likelihood of maltreatment (Corliss et al., 2002; Holmes & Slap, 1998). A second explanation proposes that sexual orientation minorities disproportionately exhibit gender-nonconforming behaviors in childhood (Rieger, Linsenmeier, Gygax, & Bailey, 2008; Roberts, Rosario, Corliss, Koenen, & Austin, 2012) and are targeted for maltreatment (Alanko et al., 2010).

A third explanation is that reported differences are attributable to differential recall of maltreatment by sexual orientation, due either to self-reflection during the coming out process or to differential willingness to endorse stigmatizing experiences (Corliss et al., 2002). A fourth explanation is that maltreatment increases likelihood of same-sex sexuality. Four pathways have been hypothesized: (1) maltreatment may cause loss of self-worth and create a stigmatized identity in victims; therefore, maltreated persons with with same-sex preferences may be more willing to adopt another stigmatized identity, namely minority sexual orientation (Saewyc et al., 2006);(2) sexual abuse, perpetrated primarily by men, causes boys to believe they are homosexual (Gartner, 1999); (3) sexual abuse of girls by male perpetrators causes victims to be aversive to sexual relationships with men (Marvasti & Dripchak, 2004); and (4) sexual abuse of boys by men “teaches” homosexuality (Cameron & Cameron, 1995, 1996) (see also LeVay, 1996)."









Does Maltreatment in Childhood Affect Sexual Orientation in Adulthood?


Epidemiological studies find a positive association between physical and sexual abuse, neglect, and witnessing violence in childhood and same-sex sexuality in adulthood, but studies directly assessing the association between these diverse types of maltreatment ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> In matters of science, you'll just have to forgive me if I don't find you authoritative.
> 
> "Epidemiological studies find a positive association between childhood maltreatment and same-sex sexuality in adulthood, with lesbians and gay men reporting 1.6 to 4 times greater prevalence of sexual and physical abuse than heterosexuals (Corliss, Cochran, & Mays, 2002; Hughes, Haas, Razzano, Cassidy, & Matthews, 2000; Roberts, Austin, Corliss, Vandermorris, & Koenen, 2010; Saewyc et al., 2006). Four explanations have been proposed for this association. The first is that nascent same-sex sexuality causes childhood maltreatment, through two pathways: (1) adolescents who reveal their same-sex sexual orientation are targeted for maltreatment (D’Augelli & Grossman, 2001; Saewyc et al., 2006); and (2) adolescents exploring same-sex attractions may put themselves in risky situations, increasing likelihood of maltreatment (Corliss et al., 2002; Holmes & Slap, 1998). A second explanation proposes that sexual orientation minorities disproportionately exhibit gender-nonconforming behaviors in childhood (Rieger, Linsenmeier, Gygax, & Bailey, 2008; Roberts, Rosario, Corliss, Koenen, & Austin, 2012) and are targeted for maltreatment (Alanko et al., 2010).
> 
> A third explanation is that reported differences are attributable to differential recall of maltreatment by sexual orientation, due either to self-reflection during the coming out process or to differential willingness to endorse stigmatizing experiences (Corliss et al., 2002). A fourth explanation is that maltreatment increases likelihood of same-sex sexuality. Four pathways have been hypothesized: (1) maltreatment may cause loss of self-worth and create a stigmatized identity in victims; therefore, maltreated persons with with same-sex preferences may be more willing to adopt another stigmatized identity, namely minority sexual orientation (Saewyc et al., 2006);(2) sexual abuse, perpetrated primarily by men, causes boys to believe they are homosexual (Gartner, 1999); (3) sexual abuse of girls by male perpetrators causes victims to be aversive to sexual relationships with men (Marvasti & Dripchak, 2004); and (4) sexual abuse of boys by men “teaches” homosexuality (Cameron & Cameron, 1995, 1996) (see also LeVay, 1996)."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Maltreatment in Childhood Affect Sexual Orientation in Adulthood?
> 
> 
> Epidemiological studies find a positive association between physical and sexual abuse, neglect, and witnessing violence in childhood and same-sex sexuality in adulthood, but studies directly assessing the association between these diverse types of maltreatment ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


While my husband is a scientist, science of course doesn't have all the answers by any means. 
Phedophiles target children, they dont care which ones. It's any they have access to.


----------



## EI

In Absentia said:


> It's very strictly controlled in the UK, through the Gender Identity Clinics. You just don't find "someone"... I don't know where you live, though.











Doc Loses Licence After Giving 'Trans' 9-Year-Old Drugs on Skype Call


A doctor has been struck off after it was found that he had proscribed puberty blockers to a nine-year-old after a skype call




www.breitbart.com


----------



## In Absentia

EI said:


> Doc Loses Licence After Giving 'Trans' 9-Year-Old Drugs on Skype Call
> 
> 
> A doctor has been struck off after it was found that he had proscribed puberty blockers to a nine-year-old after a skype call
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.breitbart.com


thanks for that.. but it’s clearly an exception and luckily it was caught. It’s not a British based organisation and they used a loophole.


----------



## Cynthia

To suggest that pedophiles specifically target homosexual children is appalling. First of all, there are no homosexual or heterosexual children. Children are not sexual. It's scary that sex is being forced on children either by pedophiles or by people trying to educate them about things they are not ready for. It's highly inappropriate.

Saying that something is a disorder is not an insult nor is it disrespectful to think something is a disorder. Believing someone has a disorder doesn't mean also thinking the person is less than or not of value.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Cynthia said:


> To suggest that pedophiles specifically target homosexual children is appalling. First of all, there are no homosexual or heterosexual children. Children are not sexual. It's scary that sex is being forced on children either by pedophiles or by people trying to educate them about things they are not ready for. It's highly inappropriate.
> 
> Saying that something is a disorder is not an insult nor is it disrespectful to think something is a disorder. Believing someone has a disorder doesn't mean also thinking the person is less than or not of value.


The problem is that you are arguing with an ideological cult, not rational, sensible people.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband




----------



## gaius

Ursula said:


> @greatgal, I loved your original post, and was going to say something to the effect of "good for you, the world needs more accepting parents like you!" Then someone mentioned the sexual orientation of your oldest child, so I went back to that thread and read the whole thing.
> 
> I agree with others, I'm sorry, you guys need some family counselling and both your children need individual therapy specializing in gender and sexuality. I watch the show "I am Jazz" and love that girl, but she also advocates for mental wellness, and that's what's missing here. OK, your one child is a lesbian, but your other is taking meds that can greatly affect their future if they change their mind about their sexuality. Get some professional help for your family, and go from there.


Is Jazz still like 400 pounds? For years he pushed and pushed to get his penis inverted, because that would make him his true self, and about 10 minutes after he finally had it done he's 300 pounds heavier. Doesn't sound like a happy person who just had all his dreams come true.


----------



## Ursula

gaius said:


> Is Jazz still like 400 pounds? For years he pushed and pushed to get his penis inverted, because that would make him his true self, and about 10 minutes after he finally had it done he's 300 pounds heavier. Doesn't sound like a happy person who just had all his dreams come true.


I've watched the show for years, and for years, Jazz has suffered with depression. I would say that it stems back to her not liking herself, and then trying to push herself way too hard to succeed at various things in life. That can take a toll on any person. After her surgery, she had a lot of things happen to her in life that she either had to deal with or make a major life decision on, and it was too much. Many people turn to eating when they're stressed or depressed (arms waving here, I can be one of them), and hence, weight gain. She isn't 400 lbs that I'm aware of, but is definitely heavier than is healthy.


----------



## SunCMars

Numb26 said:


> ^^^This. Almost like signaling


Virtual Signaling is the term used.


----------



## csj77

Diana7 said:


> Children who are sexually abused as children have their sexuality skewed and they are damaged.


Being gay doesn’t mean you’re “skewed … and … damaged”.
Sexual abuse is damaging yes. But being gay is NOT a bad thing so stop making being gay “wrong”.


----------



## Openminded

gaius said:


> Is Jazz still like 400 pounds? For years he pushed and pushed to get his penis inverted, because that would make him his true self, and about 10 minutes after he finally had it done he's 300 pounds heavier. Doesn't sound like a happy person who just had all his dreams come true.


As of a few months ago, at least 100 pounds added due to binge eating and no progress on losing weight from last fall.


----------



## Cynthia

csj77 said:


> Being gay doesn’t mean you’re “skewed … and … damaged”.
> Sexual abuse is damaging yes. But being gay is NOT a bad thing so stop making being gay “wrong”.


Many people believe that homosexuality is a disorder or that it is wrong. None of us, who believe that, have asked you to shut up about what you think or about what your beliefs are, so why is it okay for you to do that to us? Answer: It's not okay. You are trying to shut down discussion on a discussion board. Not cool.


----------



## csj77

Cynthia said:


> Many people believe that homosexuality is a disorder or that it is wrong. None of us, who believe that, have asked you to shut up about what you think or about what your beliefs are, so why is it okay for you to do that to us? Answer: It's not okay. You are trying to shut down discussion on a discussion board. Not cool.


🙄
Did I say “shut up”?
I’m saying let gay people live their lives whether you or anyone else thinks it’s wrong. They’re not asking you to be gay.
And yes, saying it’s a “disorder” is ludicrous.


----------



## SunCMars

Cynthia said:


> Many people believe that homosexuality is a disorder or that it is wrong. None of us, who believe that, have asked you to shut up about what you think or about what your beliefs are, so why is it okay for you to do that to us? Answer: It's not okay. You are trying to shut down discussion on a discussion board. Not cool.


Brave words heard in grave times.

I believe there are those that are naturally gay.

I also believe there is strength in numbers.

There is a concerted effort to faux-create homosexuality to bolster their numbers and their credibility. 

The more the merrier, sadly, this push, only makes life even more complicated. 

These notions only weaken our species.

Our Creator made two sexes, such to procreate. 

Mankind has created more, and all are ultimate dead ends.

Why complicate life, when it need not be.


----------



## Cynthia

csj77 said:


> Being gay doesn’t mean you’re “skewed … and … damaged”.
> Sexual abuse is damaging yes. But being gay is NOT a bad thing *so stop* making being gay “wrong”.





csj77 said:


> 🙄
> Did I say “shut up”?
> I’m saying let gay people live their lives whether you or anyone else thinks it’s wrong. They’re not asking you to be gay.
> And yes, saying it’s a “disorder” is ludicrous.


Telling us to stop is the same as telling us to shut up. 
You may think it's ludicrous, but I have a different opinion. I don't have a problem with your opinion and I don't care if you think homosexuality is perfectly normal, but I do have a problem with you trying to shut down those who disagree with you.


----------



## Numb26

Cynthia said:


> Telling us to stop is the same as telling us to shut up.
> You may think it's ludicrous, but I have a different opinion. I don't have a problem with your opinion and I don't care if you think homosexuality is perfectly normal, but I do have a problem with you trying to shut down those who disagree with you.


Ignore button is your friend sometimes


----------



## Cynthia

@greatgal, I can imagine that you have been disappointed by the responses to your thread. You are excited that your kids confide in you and that they feel safe with you. That is something to be celebrated. Unfortunately, that point has been lost in this thread.
The reason things have gone off track from what you probably expected is due to concern for you and your children and nothing else. It's probably hard to see that, but know that the people here do care.
I wish you and your family well.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Cynthia said:


> Telling us to stop is the same as telling us to shut up.
> You may think it's ludicrous, but I have a different opinion. I don't have a problem with your opinion and I don't care if you think homosexuality is perfectly normal, but I do have a problem with you trying to shut down those who disagree with you.


Welcome to the South-African mindset. A subset of the populace are entitled to get away with anything. Being entitled to tell people on a message board to stow their opinions because it differs from whatever benefits them to do as they wish is just one more thing that entitlement has, well, made them entitled to do.

Entitlement is the mindset and its prevalent.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

In Absentia said:


> You know why. TAM has become an unbearable place where the usual people bully everybody with their extreme views, accusing everyone of wokeness, denigrating gay people, transgenders, anybody who is slightly different from the white gun-toting right wing American. You just don’t see it. You are just driving everybody away and are happy to talk amongst yourselves. This place is a desert. I won’t engage in any discussion over this. BTW, you as in general you.


You think this thread is real, go for it.


----------



## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You think this thread is real, go for it.


Who knows?


----------



## Rob_1

Homosexuality,strictly from a biological point of view has and always will be a non desirable genetic trait for humans, henceforth the natural rejection by humans towards homosexuals as a good genetic candidate for procreation.

having said that, there's more to it since we humans are primates. Most primates are highly social, and some sexually active/ready almost on demand as we see in humans; which has since the beginnings of the species set us for some non selective, almost indiscriminately mating at times for various reasons, such as no "preferred/desirable" mates available. Hence, the knowingly mating with a non preferred individual, such as an homosexual, consequently the dispersion of the genetic material from homosexuals, more and more. This is not counting nature's stresses when overpopulation is present as in modern times. It's been observed in various species the stresses that overpopulation creates, such as depletion of natural resources, which in turn creates stresses such as cannibalism, constant violence, homosexuality, all of this as an effort to control population. How is it done? That's a question that it's not quite understood from a biochemical point of view, but is as an aggregate observed.

since times immemorial, until the subjugation of most people in this planet by the three most politically, militarily and economically religious powers-the judeo-Christian, and Islamic, any person borne sexually different to the standard heterosexual biological desirable trait, from a social point of view were set aside as "special" beings, such as "two spirits" chamans, or consecrated for the deities temples, but cast aside, nonetheless into these various special duties within the society. That was the way ancient man dealt with a non desirable genetic trait.

In modern times due to the consolidation of socio-religious mores around the world by the the axis of the Judeo-Christian and Muslim dogmas, the natural biological rejection of homosexuality had been accentuated with moral intolerance towards such individuals that are not entirely heterosexual.

So, in most of the western world we have reached a pinnacle of social justice where we want to take each individual valued as they are. But the pendulum is swinging to the point that we are supposed to accept individuals that are not desired as genetic valuable to mate as "normal" desirable individuals for mating. A lunatic now is allowed to mate and to pass on his undesirable genetic material. The more distant we are from nature and its laws the more our species degenerates. The more and more we see from a social and physical point of view the increased tensions within our species due to the more and more people that can't understand nature's mandates.

In the end, one way or another Mother Nature will deal with humans. And that's not counting if we deal with ourselves first. It's just a matter of time, but I'm sure we won't see it in our lifetime.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Rob_1 said:


> Homosexuality,strictly from a biological point of view has and always will be a non desirable genetic trait for humans, henceforth the natural rejection by humans towards homosexuals as a good genetic candidate for procreation.
> 
> having said that, there's more to it since we humans are primates. Most primates are highly social, and some sexually active/ready almost on demand as we see in humans; which has since the beginnings of the species set us for some non selective, almost indiscriminately mating at times for various reasons, such as no "preferred/desirable" mates available. Hence, the knowingly mating with a non preferred individual, such as an homosexual, consequently the dispersion of the genetic material from homosexuals, more and more. This is not counting nature's stresses when overpopulation is present as in modern times. It's been observed in various species the stresses that overpopulation creates, such as depletion of natural resources, which in turn creates stresses such as cannibalism, constant violence, homosexuality, all of this as an effort to control population. How is it done? That's a question that it's not quite understood from a biochemical point of view, but is as an aggregate observed.
> 
> since times immemorial, until the subjugation of most people in this planet by the three most politically, militarily and economically religious powers-the judeo-Christian, and Islamic, any person borne sexually different to the standard heterosexual biological desirable trait, from a social point of view were set aside as "special" beings, such as "two spirits" chamans, or consecrated for the deities temples, but cast aside, nonetheless into these various special duties within the society. That was the way ancient man dealt with a non desirable genetic trait.
> 
> In modern times due to the consolidation of socio-religious mores around the world by the the axis of the Judeo-Christian and Muslim dogmas, the natural biological rejection of homosexuality had been accentuated with moral intolerance towards such individuals that are not entirely heterosexual.
> 
> So, in most of the western world we have reached a pinnacle of social justice where we want to take each individual valued as they are. But the pendulum is swinging to the point that we are supposed to accept individuals that are not desired as genetic valuable to mate as "normal" desirable individuals for mating. A lunatic now is allowed to mate and to pass on his undesirable genetic material. The more distant we are from nature and its laws the more our species degenerates. The more and more we see from a social and physical point of view the increased tensions within our species due to the more and more people that can't understand nature's mandates.
> 
> In the end, one way or another Mother Nature will deal with humans. And that's not counting if we deal with ourselves first. It's just a matter of time, but I'm sure we won't see it in our lifetime.


The first world West can be surmised by the findings in this experiment:









Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse


Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse




www.iflscience.com





It predicts a total breakdown of society, adding to the axiom that:
"Hard Times Create Strong Men.
Strong men create Good Times.
Good Times create Weak Men.
Weak Men create Hard Times."

Only wisdom can break this cycle, but the lack of wisdom shines bright.


----------



## Rob_1

Dictum Veritas said:


> The first world West can be surmised by the findings in this experiment:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse
> 
> 
> Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iflscience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It predicts a total breakdown of society, adding to the axiom that:
> "Hard Times Create Strong Men.
> Strong men create Good Times.
> Good Times create Weak Men.
> Weak Men create Hard Times."
> 
> Only wisdom can break this cycle, but the lack of wisdom shines bright.


Retrospectively, we can see it the evolution of those great cultures/empires that arose from hardy people to their demise, like the Greeks, Roman, Spanish, British empires. 
All gone. Just weak men/cultures left, specially the British nowadays. I still wonder, what is it about British men on average??? I think that it's the reverse gender repression going on these days. You're a man, you're evil. Let's punish men.


----------



## MattMatt

Rob_1 said:


> Retrospectively, we can see it the evolution of those great cultures/empires that arose from hardy people to their demise, like the Greeks, Roman, Spanish, British empires.
> All gone. Just weak men/cultures left, specially the British nowadays. I still wonder, what is it about British men on average??? I think that it's the reverse gender repression going on these days. You're a man, you're evil. Let's punish men.


He isn't British so your point is well, it's pointless.

And a threadjack.


----------



## Rob_1

MattMatt said:


> He isn't British so your point is well, it's pointless.
> 
> And a threadjack.


Sorry, yes it was a threadjack. but I was just sticking up for British men. so much bias against males over there (specially the governmental entities).


----------



## LisaDiane

Dictum Veritas said:


> The first world West can be surmised by the findings in this experiment:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse
> 
> 
> Universe 25: The Mouse "Utopia" Experiment That Turned Into An Apocalypse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iflscience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It predicts a total breakdown of society, adding to the axiom that:
> "Hard Times Create Strong Men.
> Strong men create Good Times.
> Good Times create Weak Men.
> Weak Men create Hard Times."
> 
> Only wisdom can break this cycle, but the lack of wisdom shines bright.


SHOULD that cycle be broken though? It seems to me that hard times teach us the most and bring out the best in us...I'm not afraid of hard times. I don't enjoy them, but I face them head on and do the best that I can.


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## Dictum Veritas

LisaDiane said:


> SHOULD that cycle be broken though? It seems to me that hard times teach us the most and bring out the best in us...I'm not afraid of hard times. I don't enjoy them, but I face them head on and do the best that I can.


The greatest strides are made when that cycle is broken at a healthy offset. If we were ever to become more than just an Earthbound species, the cycle should absolutely be set to a healthy balance and there broken.

If we cannot strive for that, then we might as well revert to loin cloths and cave-dwelling.


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## In Absentia

It's always nice to be compared to mice...


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## LisaDiane

Dictum Veritas said:


> The greatest strides are made when that cycle is broken at a healthy offset. If we were ever to become more than just an Earthbound species, the cycle should absolutely be set to a healthy balance and there broken.
> 
> If we cannot strive for that, then we might as well revert to loin cloths and cave-dwelling.


I weigh all that as well...and as a spiritual person who believes in God and a Divine Plan, I haven't become convinced that "perfection" is what we are all supposed to attain. STRIVE FOR, yes...but maybe we are supposed to continue to fail.

Maybe the "perfection" for us as humans is in the struggle.


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## Dictum Veritas

LisaDiane said:


> I weigh all that as well...and as a spiritual person who believes in God and a Divine Plan, I haven't become convinced that "perfection" is what we are all supposed to attain. STRIVE FOR, yes...but maybe we are supposed to continue to fail.
> 
> Maybe the "perfection" for us as humans is in the struggle.


Who knows the mind of God? Maybe strife or excellence is His plan; but I do not think I would quite so keenly bend before a God who has nothing but strife in mind for my children. I prefer to believe that we can attain great heights, for God himself did say that he created us only slightly less than heavenly beings and in that I would prefer to see his desire for our ascension from the mud of our cradle to the stars he has placed as the next natural frontier.


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## LisaDiane

Dictum Veritas said:


> Who knows the mind of God? Maybe strife or excellence is His plan; but I do not think I would quite so keenly bend before a God who has nothing but strife in mind for my children. I prefer to believe that we can attain great heights, for God himself did say that he created us only slightly less than heavenly beings and in that I would prefer to see his desire for our ascension from the mud of our cradle to the stars he has placed as the next natural frontier.


Hmm...very good points. More to think about...!!


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## samyeagar

Numb26 said:


> All the Cool kids are doing it


And not just the kids. Back in the day, the cool thing was to be a parent of adopted chinese and african babies. Now the cool thing is to be a parent of LGBTQIA+ kids. Much cheaper now a days since anyone can do it.


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## David60525

greatgal said:


> Proud of my youngest daughter,she came out about something about herself.At 14,she has been doing great figuring out herself.It has been with her orientation.Came out to me on Monday after I came home from work.I came home and told me she had to come out about something.Went in her room and we talked a little bit at first.Finally came out she is gay,a lesbian.Looked at me and said that.I looked at her and told her I love her no matter with my support.Knows I will never reject her at all and this is her.


Out is out, don't be proud of being woke..


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## wifelife76

Good god. Please ignore all these comments telling you that you should be less supportive of your kids.

The important thing here is that your kids feel safe to share things with you and know you love them unconditionally. Which means regardless of what happens--if they stay with the understandings of themselves they have now, or if they change later on--they will know they can be honest with you about it.

For the record, I'm an actual queer adult woman who spends time with other actual queer adults, some of whom still use the labels they settled on in their teen years and some who don't. I don't know a single person among them with regrets about that process of understanding themselves. But I do know MANY who regret that their parents were too selfish to do their most basic job as parents and love them. ****ty parents who don't accept their kids don't stop queer people from existing. We just continue to exist without speaking to them.


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## Diana7

wifelife76 said:


> Good god. Please ignore all these comments telling you that you should be less supportive of your kids.
> 
> The important thing here is that your kids feel safe to share things with you and know you love them unconditionally. Which means regardless of what happens--if they stay with the understandings of themselves they have now, or if they change later on--they will know they can be honest with you about it.
> 
> For the record, I'm an actual queer adult woman who spends time with other actual queer adults, some of whom still use the labels they settled on in their teen years and some who don't. I don't know a single person among them with regrets about that process of understanding themselves. But I do know MANY who regret that their parents were too selfish to do their most basic job as parents and love them. ****ty parents who don't accept their kids don't stop queer people from existing. We just continue to exist without speaking to them.


Real love isnt about encouraging disastrous and harmful actions and ideologies being messed about with by as yet still young children. Many of whom are mixed up and really have no idea of what they really want or need.


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## Dictum Veritas

wifelife76 said:


> Good god. Please ignore all these comments telling you that you should be less supportive of your kids.
> 
> The important thing here is that your kids feel safe to share things with you and know you love them unconditionally. Which means regardless of what happens--if they stay with the understandings of themselves they have now, or if they change later on--they will know they can be honest with you about it.
> 
> For the record, I'm an actual queer adult woman who spends time with other actual queer adults, some of whom still use the labels they settled on in their teen years and some who don't. I don't know a single person among them with regrets about that process of understanding themselves. But I do know MANY who regret that their parents were too selfish to do their most basic job as parents and love them. ****ty parents who don't accept their kids don't stop queer people from existing. We just continue to exist without speaking to them.


Her youngest is way too young to be obsessed with an LGBTQ[add another sexual "victim group"] matters. My opinion is that being so proud of her "coming out" equates to grooming and that if it's true for the younger, logic suggest it was true for the elder as well.


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## karmagoround

In Absentia said:


> Whatever the difficulties are, keep supporting your children. The most important thing. Follow your heart, not people on a forum. You know your children best.


Yeah, forget any principles and just like a Disney character, follow your heart.


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## David60525

Bs, anyone subscribing to a letter of the alphabet in anything goes world, is bad. It isn't Adam and Steve, nor is it Jane and eve.
You can love your kids, but you don't have to like what they do.
Make it known you disagree, but don't be a jerk to your daughter But be one to her ***** friend.
Queen ideology is also a communist plot to reduce a nuclear family and its values to doo, doo.


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## David60525

Gee, sesorship on here too.


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## MattMatt

David60525 said:


> Gee, sesorship on here too.


The OP was banned as a troll.


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