# Don't see eye to eye on spending.



## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

I could use some advice. I have been married for 22 years and am still having money problems. I did not live with my wife before we were married so I did not know what to expect. I thought that we were both savers because when we would go out she was always asking to not do anything expensive. She would tell me to eat before I picked her up so we would not have to pay for expensive restaurant food, we went on cheap dates like hikes or we would play tennis (always at her request). So we get married and we are always barley making our bills. I always assumed it was expensive to have kids but as our kids are now older (with two out of the house) and our pay has increased we are still always tight. I know everyone thinks they don’t spend money but I really don’t. I don’t carry cash, I don’t go out to lunch & my gym membership is $10 a month. My wife makes an excuse to go to some kind of store every day. For example we were out of chicken food so instead of grabbing a $17 bag of food she meanders around the store and ends up getting $70 worth of pet stuff. One of the big problems is she can justify everything so when I say “Why did you spend $70 at the chicken food store” she thinks everything she got was totally important. Do this every day on top of paying your regular bills and my family runs out of money before each pay day. To make it worse my wife does not cook or buy food for the family so she is never meandering around a grocery store getting stuff to eat, so everything she buys really amounts to nothing. She has this mentality like it is a race to get what she thinks she needs before we run out of money this pay period. We never can go on vacation, upgrade our vehicles or furniture and I have no real hobbies because we are always behind. As the provider for the family is it wrong to be upset that I make well over $100,000 a year and still live paycheck to paycheck (we live in a pretty reasonably priced part of the country). If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Got a budget sir? Do you or your wife sit and make a dinner list for the week? Do you have set amount to spend at the grocery store?

What we do...more my wife...is make a dinner menu for the week. It helps control "impulse buying" that appears to be what your W is doing. We feed a family of 4 with $200.00/week. On the weekends we eat out at a nice place. Left overs are not thrown out. Going in to buy food on a whim and add in a bunch of impulse buys will drain the accounts quick. This you know. 

Further, does your W know where the money is going each month or does she believe there is money tree out back? She needs to get a clue and get on a budget you both can agree on. 

In short, if you don't get on a budget and she is not all in this will stress you to no end. Your W needs to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

Sit, make budget, agree on an allowance for both. Save as a much as you can for vacation. Both sit each month and cut check for each budgeted bill you have. Your W will see where the money goes. She will then understand impulse buying of $70 for fido was not a good move.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

I have tried budgets, I have tried taking away her debit & credit cards and the checkbook. When I did this she went behind my back and opened a Target & Koles card. I think a big problem every marriage faces now a days is that some people grew up thinking shopping is a hobby. My wife will admit that it is what she does to get out of the house or relieve stress.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> I have tried budgets, I have tried taking away her debit & credit cards and the checkbook. When I did this she went behind my back and opened a Target & Koles card. I think a big problem every marriage faces now a days is that some people grew up thinking shopping is a hobby. My wife will admit that it is what she does to get out of the house or relieve stress.


Well sir, some call this financial infidelity. Running up bills without the spouses knowledge. It does not appear to be a hobby. It is irresponsible. 
Spending gobs of cash, hiding credit cards and running bills she can not afford relieves her stress yet is stressing you to the point of seeking help. SEE SOMETHING WRONG HERE?

At the end of the day she will continue to do this unless there are consequences. And by consequences...something as drastic as D. No reason you should stress on a sinking ship when your W can very well grow up and go for a walk to de-stress. It costs nothing. She needs to know the BS stops here. If she does not appear to want to change I see no reason for you to continue on baling out her poor spending habits.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

You are right, I know it is a problem that is why I posted this. Consequences are a good suggestion; again I am dealing with a person who justifies every penny she spends so to her it is all necessary. I will move forward with the idea of consequences.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> You are right, I know it is a problem that is why I posted this. Consequences are a good suggestion; again I am dealing with a person who justifies every penny she spends so to her it is all necessary. I will move forward with the idea of consequences.


The only justifiable expense in a standard home is mortgage, utilities and food IMO. The rest of it is what people call non-essentials. The credit cards are behind your back is very bad IMO. This is not a innocent secret. She knows it is bad yet does it anyway.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It's important to have goals and to cast a vision that your wife can believe in. Sure, many people have a spending addiction, but there are also others who grew up in poverty and are conditioned to spend money to get what they want NOW in case the money isn't there later. 

This is why you create goals and specific methods to control spending. A good site to go to is youneedabudget.com...which is a good spending tracking tool....and will teach you about zero balance budgeting. Basically you start with what you make, subtract all bills and set a dollar amount to how much you plan to spend in each specific category. You enter in amount throughout the month and software helps you keep track of staying within those limits. If you stick to your budget, that should free up a lot of cash to throw at the debts!!!

First. Cut up the cards. For marital harmony, I wouldn't force wife to do this, but if she refuses then explain to her how the monthly bills from them are eating away at saving for retirement and whatnot. Ask her what she plans to do if you happened to die? 

With 100,000 income, if you narrow your budget...plan amounts for expenditures. Take this month to tally all your receipts to see how much you spent on certain areas. All your fixed bills. Food. Restaurant or pre-prepared meals (which I am guessing is astronomically huge). Gas. Entertainment. Personal care products. Clothing. Pets. Go down the line and separate into significant categories. The amounts will be really telling about where you go really overboard and needs to be curbed.

Look up Dave Ramsey who specializes in killing debt through his baby steps which are: 1. Save Emergency Fund...$1k. Only use when a surprise, unplanned emergency happens. 2. Kill debt through snowball method. Pay minimum on all debts except the lowest debt which you will attack from money you freed up from living on a tight budget. When it's paid off, you attack the next debt, still living on the same budget. Any monthly money freed up from having a debt paid is applied to next debt. Do this until everything, except mortgage is PAID OFF! NO Credit cards!!!! 3. Increase emergency fund to 3-6 months worth of living expenses. 4. DEBT FREE, so start saving more! 15% of income going to retirement. 5. Kickoff funding for your kids' college...if you have any. 6. Attack your mortgage OR start saving for a HEFTY downpayment...whatever is a quick route to live in a home that you own 100%. 7. Once you are absolutely in the clear...continue to build your wealth for a better quality of living, also free to give more to others, and have enough for retirement.

When we are living paycheck to paycheck, there is no cushion...and you increase your risk of financial trouble when something bad happens.

Check out Financial Peace University in you area (there is always a class being started somewhere)...if you actually do this together, you will get on the same page. Use budgeting tools...and really pare down what you can actually live without while trying to get out of debt and build a nest egg. get out of the poverty mindset of now, now, now and start thinking about the future.

I know easier said than done, but with that sort of income, you have the traction right now to turn this around...it's just that you both need to be mad enough to actually make it happen.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Your wife has a serious problem, ordinary discussions of mutual goals and the like are not going to solve this. She may have what some call a shopping "addiction" or "compulsion." She also has no money sense, but opening credit cards behind your back goes way beyond that, it's a serious betrayal of trust.

If I were you I would consider even doing an "intervention" type thing and/or insisting she get counseling or group help (Debtors' Anonymous or similar). If she's not willing to work on this problem, I would consider talking to a laywer about separation or divorce and about how to protect the money from her. This will not get better on its own and could lead to disaster.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Does she work?

Does she see the bills or "balance the check book"? (i.e., does she actually know what bills are coming in and out or do you do it for her?)

I would be inclined to throw a month of bills at her and say: here, figure it out. Where's the money for these coming from. 

If she doesn't work, she needs to. Even if it's just a part time thing. 

Have you tried allowances? 

I am more like your wife than you. There's a little high that comes with each little purchase. I can never bring myself to make a big purchase; my H is a thrifty person as you describe yourself and has a lot of anxiety over anything above $75 or so. So do I honestly. But I can easily justify a bunch of little things to myself. I am the type of person who will nickel and dime us to death. It's not for lack of Planning or lack of financial ability, it's simply my one thing that is just for me that brings me pleasure. Some people smoke, some people drink...I like to get coffee at Starbucks and buy a new top from Target. 

One thing my H has done that has helped a bit : he has let me know that he would support larger more quality purchases of things I really want if they are planned ahead of time rather than "settling" for the cheaper version. That actually made me happy. There are some things that I know are stupid but that I just love. For example; I very much like expensive cosmetics and hair care stuff. I would never justify walking into a Sephora and spending $50 but I would spend $20 multiple times over for something I didn't really cherish at Walmart. Having nicer things that I never let myself have before makes me feel like wow...this withholding and saving for things is worth it!


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

Do you know what her lifestyle goals are and why she spends money in that manner? Addressing those real issues will lead to more progression over attempting to get her to stick to a budget. However, if you are dead set on going the budgeting route, make sure there is a reward for sticking to the budget. This reward should also be applicable to you too. It will be a mistake to make this all about her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Time for a counselor. She needs to see it from a professional what she's doing.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

a "shopaholic" is a real condition, just like a gambling addiction that will bleed you dry in a hurry. A budget is a good idea, but you have to be careful so your wife doesn't think you are treating her like a child with an allowance, that will start new problems. She does need some counseling to find out why she "needs" to shop so badly?


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

Her feeling like she is being treated like a child is how I usual end up giving up on any fight worth fighting. Thanks to all for the good ideas.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You give up because she says you're treating her like a child? That's a problem with YOU, not her.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes I know, I try to hard to be the peace maker in our relationship, It is not making anything better, I know.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? It's a must in your situation.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your wife's problem is much deeper than you think. This addictive shopping behavior is a replacement for something else. She needs to see a psychologist. There's some mental issues with her behavior. You cannot fix her problems by threatening, budgeting, nor talking. 

You are making $100,000.00 a year, but living paycheck to paycheck after over 20 years of marriage. You have let this go for so long. Your wife is a wreck and so is your financial affairs. A visit to the psychologist and a marriage counselor is in order for both of you.


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## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi SkateDaddy...

I feel your frustration. I am in the opposite position...I am very thrifty and my husband the opposite. And he as well can justify ANY purchase and do the song and dance of denial to perfection. We are currently in counseling and are doing better, but we just had a huge fight because he spent $800 last month on clothes, and I dared to question him. All I did was give him a "heads up" that we were going over our budget, and he immediately gets angry and justifies his right to buy whatever. He has the "I have a good job, I make good money, I should be able to spend it" attitude. But meanwhile we have hardly any emergency fund and are behind on our retirement and have a vacation on credit card that we haven't paid off. 
It is EXTREMELY frustrating. Keep posting on this site..there are many wise people who have been through similar issues and have great advice. Hang in there...


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## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh and another thing. The behind the back credit cards and spending is betrayal. Don't put up with it. You guys are married; everything should be an open book.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> Yes I know, I try to hard to be the peace maker in our relationship, It is not making anything better, I know.


Here's a question to ask yourself -- are you really being a "peace maker"? Is there really peace in your house when your wife is putting you in financial peril? I have a better term -- how about "enabler."

You're going to have to learn to be firm, because your wife doesn't want to and doesn't know how to control this problem. For example, opening credit cards without your spouse knowing has to be a strict no-no. If I were you, I'd see if there was a way to set up some kind of a credit monitoring service for both of you and have access to hers, so you find out if she does it again. 

A lot of stores have great return policies now. Returning things that go over the budget might help send a clearer message.

She may also need help, it's hard to tell just from an internet posting, but it's possible. 

In the long run, you will need an approach that helps her feel invested in both the positive and the negative -- the goals you can achieve if you spend more wisely, and the problems that can come if you don't. 

Has your wife ever held jobs? I think it can be harder to make a person understand and feel invested in their own finances when it doesn't feel like money they earned. She may have poor money sense, never having learned what it means to make decisions on how to divide up a limited pool of money.


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

John Lee - Yes she recently got her first job. It is helping, more because she has less free time on her hands to kill and something else to think about all day. But you are right I am an enabler.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you read the book yet?


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

Is it by Robert Glover?


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## Jeffyboy (Apr 7, 2015)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> I could use some advice. I have been married for 22 years and am still having money problems. I did not live with my wife before we were married so I did not know what to expect. I thought that we were both savers because when we would go out she was always asking to not do anything expensive. She would tell me to eat before I picked her up so we would not have to pay for expensive restaurant food, we went on cheap dates like hikes or we would play tennis (always at her request). So we get married and we are always barley making our bills. I always assumed it was expensive to have kids but as our kids are now older (with two out of the house) and our pay has increased we are still always tight. I know everyone thinks they don’t spend money but I really don’t. I don’t carry cash, I don’t go out to lunch & my gym membership is $10 a month. My wife makes an excuse to go to some kind of store every day. For example we were out of chicken food so instead of grabbing a $17 bag of food she meanders around the store and ends up getting $70 worth of pet stuff. One of the big problems is she can justify everything so when I say “Why did you spend $70 at the chicken food store” she thinks everything she got was totally important. Do this every day on top of paying your regular bills and my family runs out of money before each pay day. To make it worse my wife does not cook or buy food for the family so she is never meandering around a grocery store getting stuff to eat, so everything she buys really amounts to nothing. She has this mentality like it is a race to get what she thinks she needs before we run out of money this pay period. We never can go on vacation, upgrade our vehicles or furniture and I have no real hobbies because we are always behind. As the provider for the family is it wrong to be upset that I make well over $100,000 a year and still live paycheck to paycheck (we live in a pretty reasonably priced part of the country). If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them.


Wow! Looks like she pulled the old switcharoo....Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace of Mind book for couples may just be up your alley...


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Time to have a talk and attempt to get your W to see the BIG picture. Ask about what she expects her lifestyle to be once you're retired? For every 40k in retirement income, you need 1 mil to draw from ($1,000,000 x 4% = $40,000). Not to mention I assume you would like to leave something for your children once you two are gone?

The way you are headed, you may have to rely on an inept gov't for your dignity later in life, you don't want that, so STOP IT!


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