# Latest update on my divorce



## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So, things are starting to progress. I fired my lawyer last month, $4k in the hole and only cross complaints to show for it. Got a letter from the court that on first review of my complaint that several items were missing for my case to move forward. Got those items turned in the next day. Her temp needs hearing is Tuesday and the court ordered mediation for the end of the month. I initially made an offer to her lawyer back when I fired my lawyer, but after three weeks of stalling from her lawyer, I pulled the offer. Friday I got an offer from her lawyer. All I can say is either her lawyer is stupid or very smart. I think it is smart. But she obviously thinks I am an F'ing idiot. She tried to say that my paying car payment and car insurance for my wife would be considered in asking for lesser alimony but were not alimony and tried to calculate child support without including alimony in net incomes. Both of those items are clearly required to be considered in child support as income to her in Florida.

Needless to say I turned down her offer. Going to carry her proposed settlement with child support worksheets with her proposed alimony and car expenses figured in for child support and am hoping magistrate will award her temp alimony she requested in proposal because child support calcs would put her owing ME child support according to statute based on number of days time sharing she offered me.

Overall, though ticked off, I am feeling better about this divorce than I have in a long time.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Gonna Make It said:


> So, things are starting to progress. I fired my lawyer last month, $4k in the hole and only cross complaints to show for it. Got a letter from the court that on first review of my complaint that several items were missing for my case to move forward. Got those items turned in the next day. Her temp needs hearing is Tuesday and the court ordered mediation for the end of the month. I initially made an offer to her lawyer back when I fired my lawyer, but after three weeks of stalling from her lawyer, I pulled the offer. Friday I got an offer from her lawyer. All I can say is either her lawyer is stupid or very smart. I think it is smart. But she obviously thinks I am an F'ing idiot. She tried to say that my paying car payment and car insurance for my wife would be considered in asking for lesser alimony but were not alimony and tried to calculate child support without including alimony in net incomes. Both of those items are clearly required to be considered in child support as income to her in Florida.
> 
> Needless to say I turned down her offer. Going to carry her proposed settlement with child support worksheets with her proposed alimony and car expenses figured in for child support and am hoping magistrate will award her temp alimony she requested in proposal because child support calcs would put her owing ME child support according to statute based on number of days time sharing she offered me.
> 
> Overall, though ticked off, I am feeling better about this divorce than I have in a long time.


Geez, almost sounds like you are buying a home! Hang in there! I am meeting with a court facilitator today and hoping to file tomorrow at the latest.

Nice to hear that you are feeling positive.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

The car payment is first, a marital debt. I continued paying my ex's car payment and had that designated as support in our separation agreement for tax purposes, although I'm not in Florida. I believe it has to be so designated or the IRS won't permit it to be considered a deduction for you, or income for her. Never hurts to check.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> The car payment is first, a marital debt. I continued paying my ex's car payment and had that designated as support in our separation agreement for tax purposes, although I'm not in Florida. I believe it has to be so designated or the IRS won't permit it to be considered a deduction for you, or income for her. Never hurts to check.


That is why I am adamant that they count it as support. Under Florida Child Custody laws, it must be counted as income to her and as income away from me. But I still want the tax break at the end of the year, so it needs to be spelled out as durational alimony.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Well today was the day for the temp needs hearing. I think it went pretty well. Magistrate started it out by asking her lawyer if she had a copy of the motion for the hearing as she did not. Wife's lawyer did not have a copy but I did. Magistrate made the comment that at least one person came prepared.

So her lawyer started asking her questions about Financial Affidavit and several things had changed. Magistrate asked wife's lawyer if she had an updated affidavit for the court. She did not, said she would have one by friday. Caught wife in some "incorrect" statements in her testimony and highlighted them. She was very defensive and hostile in her comments. She stated that I missed a month of child support, luckily I had printed my child support payments out- only made one copy and the lawyer pitched a hissy fit that I had not made copies for them- I asked which month I missed and she stated she did not know that she would have to look at the payments. That is when I pulled the payment record out. Before it was over, the magistrate had added the payments up, and informed her that I had paid MORE than we had agreed upon.

I started explaining why my child support changed in january (lesser because I finally had their income numbers) and her lawyer interrupted to state that she had also ran the numbers and she did not come up anywhere near my numbers. So I stated to the magistrate that I had counted my payment of her car and her car insurance as income to her and against income to me. Her lawyer said that was not allowed and I pulled out State statute 61.30 which specifically states this is to be done. The whole time I am reading it, the magistrate is shaking her head "yes".

Her lawyer, trying to show that I can afford to pay her fees, asked her if she got a tax refund and how much and what she used it for($2k and used it to repay her mother who lent her money to pay for lawyer). She asks me if I have filed my taxes yet, I reply "No and I will not file before April 15 because I owe the government $2k". That shut her up in a hurry.

Magistrate pointed out that we had mediation at the end of the month, that she expected both of us to submit updated financials by the end of the week (my insurance costs had changed since mine was filed so long ago) and basically told the wife and her lawyer that it looks like I want to pay child support and alimony and that they just need to get their numbers straight. She did say that she did not like to change things from usual and since we had been doing 1 week and two weekends a month that she would keep that schedule until we go to mediation or get a final hearing. She did not rule on child support or alimony, saying she wanted to see the financials before she touched them.

All in all, I think it was a win. But I am afraid that her lawyer may now be mad at me for making her look the fool. What do you think?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Gonna Make It said:


> Well today was the day for the temp needs hearing. I think it went pretty well. Magistrate started it out by asking her lawyer if she had a copy of the motion for the hearing as she did not. Wife's lawyer did not have a copy but I did. Magistrate made the comment that at least one person came prepared.
> 
> So her lawyer started asking her questions about Financial Affidavit and several things had changed. Magistrate asked wife's lawyer if she had an updated affidavit for the court. She did not, said she would have one by friday. Caught wife in some "incorrect" statements in her testimony and highlighted them. She was very defensive and hostile in her comments. She stated that I missed a month of child support, luckily I had printed my child support payments out- only made one copy and the lawyer pitched a hissy fit that I had not made copies for them- I asked which month I missed and she stated she did not know that she would have to look at the payments. That is when I pulled the payment record out. Before it was over, the magistrate had added the payments up, and informed her that I had paid MORE than we had agreed upon.
> 
> ...


The lawyer could care less about looking like a fool, they can only work off what the client gives them. The lawyer will most likely have a stern chat with her telling her how bad that looked in front of judge etc and why the lawyer needs real facts n figures. 

The lawyer now knows he needs to be better prepared, your stbx will be mad at you though.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Part of the looking like a fool was the coming to the court not prepared with a copy of the judges order for the hearing. She stated it was at her office. 

In the meantime I pulled mine out and handed it to the Magistrate. Then to add insult to injury, she tried to tell me that the car payment and alimony were not supposed to be taken into account for the purposes of child support and then I pulled out the law and read it to her where they are taken into account and adjust the income of the parties. Sad when a pro se is better prepared than the lawyer.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Gonna Make It said:


> All in all, I think it was a win. But I am afraid that her lawyer may now be mad at me for making her look the fool. What do you think?


And exactly why would this be a problem?  Let her be mad! More than likely she's mad at HERSELF and your STBXW for looking like unprepared dolts in front of the judge.

Sounds like you did a great job. My divorce was ugly and messy and dragged on forever. Always nice to hear when folks are making progress, relatively smoothly.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Your lucky getting rid of your first attorney at 4k. It took 20k before I fired my first one. Unfortunately, my second attorney doesn't seem to be doing much either. XW attorney, was equally unprepared at each court appearance. Judge admonished him, but with out consequences, so it just continued. The Judge just allowed it to happen. Wasting more time and money. The legal profession deserves its horrible reputation. Im more than 3 years into my divorce and still zero progress. I have two attorneys in my family. Both say that these idiots would make a great article in the bar association magazine on NOT how to treat your clients and get sued. Second attorney knows I filed a grievance against the first attorney. You would think she would tread lightly. She chose to accept my case knowing this.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Still all quiet on the western front. She has interrogatories due on Tuesday of next week, suspect that she will make another offer on Friday because of that. I really think she does not want to answer the 10 additional questions I chose. I hit her with a few of them in the hearing yesterday and she was downright nasty in answering back, verbally abusive. Then each time I brought out proof that what she had said was not the actual truth. I think she is going to be afraid to lie in the interrogatory and I asked three different questions about if she had ever been unfaithful to me. One general one and two about people that I think she has had affairs with. It is pretty funny how after she got the interrogatories that her stance on time sharing suddenly changed to what I was asking. Which makes me think my guess on the affairs is dead on.

Question, what do I do if she does not return interrogatories on time? Do I file a motion of contempt with the court?


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So, things are moving on my end. I am drowning ex-wife's lawyer in paperwork these last three days. Filed my updated financials the day of the magistrate's hearing. Sent her lawyer an email this AM that I figured out why I did not receive her documentation. She was notified by me that my lawyer was no longer my lawyer, he filed a motion to be removed. She filed her certification of compliance of mandatory disclosure several days later stating she emailed documents to my former lawyer!!!!! I tell you, she is shysty!!! She may have met the letter of the law, but she did not meet the intention of the law, she expected me NOT to receive the documents. I sent an email pointing out why I did not receive them and requesting she email me the documents. I then filed my Certificate of compliance of mandatory disclosure with my documents this evening. I figure at the rates she quoted, I may have put the ex a grand in the hole today. And she still has interrogatories due on Tuesday. If I do not receive her docs by Friday evening, I will be filing a contempt motion on monday stating she knew that I would not get the docs from former lawyer and SHOULD have cc'ed me on the email. Maybe after a few more legal losses she will tell the ex to settle just to get rid of me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Atta boy, GMI 

Beat her at her own game!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So, her lawyer did not get her updated financials filed today. Magistrate was pretty clear she wanted them by friday at the latest. Too bad wife's lawyer is not going to get in trouble for not filing by the date the magistrate wanted them.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Gonna Make It said:


> So, her lawyer did not get her updated financials filed today. Magistrate was pretty clear she wanted them by friday at the latest. Too bad wife's lawyer is not going to get in trouble for not filing by the date the magistrate wanted them.


The key in any of this is if the magistrate has any backbone and will put consequenses behind the deadlines. My judge is useless. My stbx blew off motions for discovery, she has been depositioned numerous times and not shown up. For all the judges bark he never backs it up. Why would you comply if nothing happens if you don't. 

Lawyers know how far they can "abuse" the system. Be vigilant on your part, its usually not a single missed deadline or paperwork but a culmination that gets a judges patience worn out.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I think pushing for the interrogatories is a great idea. However, as honcho points out about the judges, the interrogatories are only as useful as the judge's enforcement with compliance. My ex-husband sent over pages and pages of them for me to respond to, and anything my lawyer felt was "over the line", he instructed me to answer "N/A" or "Does not pertain to case" or "Does not apply, not filing for grounds, no-fault state."

I honestly don't think the judge even looked at them . I never heard about them again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So, surprisingly wife's lawyer filed interrogatories today. She answered all financial questions that she had previously provided that information (I never received the mandatory disclosure because she sent it to my former lawyer while we were waiting for the judge to sign the order to remove the lawyer). Wife denied an affair in marriage and refused to answer if she had had sex with either of the two people that I questioned about and refused to detail her relationship with them. I now realize that I should have asked about infidelity rather than affair as her answer is basically a "what the definition of is is" situation. She does not consider it an affair so it is not an affair and she has not lied on her answers by refusing to answer if she had sex. 

So probably really torqued her lawyer tomorrow morning when she reads my reply to her answers. I told her that she and her client was made aware, and it was reiterated in an email to her PRIOR to her client signing the affidavit, that I had not received her mandatory disclosures and I was willing to look at it as an oversight and that she needed to have the mandatories to me by close of business Monday or I would be filing a motion to compel and a complaint with the bar against her on Tuesday. Too much?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You confronted too soon and never to proof of her infidelity if I remember correctly.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Yup. And looks like she is just gonna keep saying nothing is going on. And I am sure her lawyer told her not to admit to the sex because it could affect alimony. But such is life. Just wanted to see if she would admit to it.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Yup, pissed her lawyer off. She flooded me with interrogatories, a motion for produce with fifty sum odd questions that I looked at last night. Oh well, she has thirty days to get them, maybe I will do them in a week or two but right now I am not going to let her lawyer bother me. I am sure she thinks she has me torqued but, know what, she ain't worth getting torqued over. We have mediation before they are due. I think I just may go in there, refuse to negotiate and just let a judge have the case, hell I am already on the verge of bankruptcy anyway. Judge cannot get blood from a turnip. So he takes what little I have that is no big deal. She on the other hand will not like the lose that her client gets.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Yup. And looks like she is just gonna keep saying nothing is going on. And I am sure her lawyer told her not to admit to the sex because it could affect alimony. But such is life. Just wanted to see if she would admit to it.


Try not to obsess over how much that is probably going to cost you.

I know I would.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Try not to obsess over how much that is probably going to cost you.
> 
> I know I would.



Oh, it will not cost me anything!!!! I made an offer and if she does not accept, I plan on waiting it out to the new law currently going expected to pass this year goes into effect, it bans permanent alimony and sets guidelines for judges to order alimony. I have done the math, the figures even at their worst are less than her lawyer is trying to get now.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Oh, it will not cost me anything!!!! I made an offer and if she does not accept, I plan on waiting it out to the new law currently going expected to pass this year goes into effect, it bans permanent alimony and sets guidelines for judges to order alimony. I have done the math, the figures even at their worst are less than her lawyer is trying to get now.


At least the laws will be working in your favor, but I understood from your post that if you waited to confront and established hard evidence then you might have been able to waive alimoney completely by proving she is at fault.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

No, it is a no fault state, so proving infidelity while it would lower alimony would not do away with it altogether. No, her admitting it was about being truthful with me. But apparently she does not know how to do that. Or does not care enough to do that.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Well, miracles really do never cease. Her lawyer emailed today that they have received my offer (made Monday) and will get back to me as soon as possible with a reply. 

I do not think I will hold my breath waiting as it took a full business week to acknowledge the email with the offer. At that rate I would think it would need to sit on the table for at least a month for her to act on it one way or the other.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Wow, kind of surprised. Everyone said that she would make an offer before mediation. Did not happen. Mediation is Tuesday and she did not send an offer today. So, we go waste $120 each on Tuesday and then we start preparing for war because I really at this point think I will go pay my fee, tell the mediator that I do not agree to anything they offer and just walk out. Maybe it is stupid,but they have threatened to take my girls from me. There is a fine line between trying to make me fearful and making me mad. They crossed that line.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Don't be so quick to jump into the adversarial role just because they made a vague threat and didn't give you a settlement offer.

That $120 per week is nothing compared to what you'll be paying in attorneys fees if this thing goes the contested route.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Mediation is over. We came to an agreement. 11 yrs alimony, no child support either way, I get kids 50% of time and claim one on taxes. Down side, I have both vehicles and still have a car payment. But at least I am rid of her.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

So glad it's done! Now you can breathe a sigh of relief. _*sigh_

How long were you married? Eleven years of spousal support seems like a lot... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> So glad it's done! Now you can breathe a sigh of relief. _*sigh_
> 
> How long were you married? Eleven years of spousal support seems like a lot...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


21 years. Under the law working it's way through state house and senate, permanent alimony would be removed- state currently has it for long term marriages over 17 years presumed to be given- and replaces with 25% to 75% of length of marriage depending on division of assets and liabilities along with other things. So it is a few months more than 50% so I figure that is fair. I had to waive my right to child support- amount they wanted in alimony would have required her to pay me monthly alimony- in order to get the deal. But it is worth it not to have to be married to her anymore.

Anyone in Florida know how long from time final order is submitted to the judge to sign before he gets to signing it as a general rule? I am guessing more than a week as they still have to have a hearing to rubber stamp.


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So… got the email today from the court. Tuesday morning is THE day. Then I will be legally divorced. Felt like a kick in the gut. Does that make any sense?


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

So, THOUGHT things would be over yesterday. Not so much. I am now divorced, but still not over. She is refusing to give me my car for a month because she needs it. Big F'ing whoop. according to the mediation agreement, it is mine. I offered her to use my vehicle if she asked (OK, I am planning on charging her the prorated payment and insurance for the time she uses it against her alimony) but now she just plain refuses to answer a text on whether she wants to use my vehicle or will she be returning it to me tomorrow. If I do not hear something by tomorrow, I am reporting it stolen and having her arrested for grand theft auto.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sorry she's being a brat about the car, but so glad your divorce is final. Just a few loose ends to tie up and then you can finally put it all behind you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Sorry she's being a brat about the car, but so glad your divorce is final. Just a few loose ends to tie up and then you can finally put it all behind you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My mother and I were talking about it yesterday after the hearing. She and her lawyer never said the first word to me. Basically it means I won the mediation and they lost. They did not want to accept the deals where I offered the farm. And they both were mad that I beat them.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Wow. Good for you!

How much worse is the deal she got vs. what you offered her initially? Some people just can't be satisfied because they think they deserve more. It often comes back to bite them in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Offered her the vehicle, I pay payment and insurance, it counts as alimony toward child support but is not tax deductible. She gets permanent alimony, $500+ a month. We split kids 50/50. I pay child support. Basically when it was all done, I took $20K in debt, she would walk away with $15K in assets, basically I only got what was in my apartment and my jeep. Vehicle and alimony without child support would have had me paying $1k plus a month.

FINAL order, I got both vehicles, I pay $750/ mo for 11 yrs or till married/ cohabitating, we still split kids, I wave her paying me $50 a mo child support. I wave her owing me $800 in medical and school fees for kids this past year.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Good for you . I bet she wishes she could go back in time and take your other offers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Gonna Make It said:


> Offered her the vehicle, I pay payment and insurance, it counts as alimony toward child support but is not tax deductible. She gets permanent alimony, $500+ a month. We split kids 50/50. I pay child support. Basically when it was all done, I took $20K in debt, she would walk away with $15K in assets, basically I only got what was in my apartment and my jeep. Vehicle and alimony without child support would have had me paying $1k plus a month.
> 
> FINAL order, I got both vehicles, I pay $750/ mo for 11 yrs or till married/ cohabitating, we still split kids, I wave her paying me $50 a mo child support. I wave her owing me $800 in medical and school fees for kids this past year.


Sometimes it's just good to have it over. The alimony.... have you ever seen the

movie Mr. Wonderful? :rofl:


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## Gonna Make It (Dec 3, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Sometimes it's just good to have it over. The alimony.... have you ever seen the
> 
> movie Mr. Wonderful? :rofl:


UMMMM NO!!!!! I would not do that for 2 reasons:

1) I would not wish her on my worst enemy.

2) No way in hell I am going that close to bat**** crazy again.


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