# Reconciling, but can't get over the sex



## Scooter123

I wished I found TAM two years ago when I discovered my wife's affair, but better late than never. We've been through counseling and are trying to reconcile, but I'm having lingering issues.

A bit of background. My wife and I are both in our early 40's and going on our 11th year of marriage. She had an affair with a work colleague four years ago, for two plus years. The OM was from out of town, but they got together whenever their company had their bi-annual week-long conferences and also when he came into town about once every few months for regional meetings. There were signs early on but I didn't listen to my gut. Late-night texts? checked. Taking her cellphone to the bathroom or whenever she left the room? checked. Getting brazilian waxes way more often? checked (she used to do it only once a year before our summer vacation). Buying sexy underwear? checked. She had an excuse for every one of them, and at the time, I just wasn't connecting the dots.

Anyways, I found out two years ago when she left her work laptop logged in at home. I found the backup texts and emails. They're not only sextings but he sent her video clips of when they had sex with explicit messages. I couldn't bring myself to open the video files for over a week, curious while afraid to find out what's in them. I literally did not sleep during that time. I so wanted to delete them but my logical side told me to get all the evidence before I confronted her. I did eventually watch them and a couple of things stuck with me even to this day. First, she had unprotected sex the whole time. They might've used condoms early on. I don't know. But what I do know is that in the clips she told him to ejaculate inside her. That really really made me angry. So we weren't exactly having a lot of sex during this time, but she still put my health at risk. The lies! It's like pulling teeth. When I confronted her (without telling her I'd seen the messages), she denied it at first. Pressed further, she said they just kissed. Then she said she only gave him oral sex, as if that made it better. She finally admitted to intercourse but lied to my face and said she used condoms. Even now I still haven't gotten a satisfactory explanation for this. Second is she did all the things with him that she wouldn't do with me like anal sex and swallowing. She had always said no to anal sex with me and even in conversations with friends, whenever it came up, she would tell everyone that anal sex is not for her and nothing is going up her butt. What total bs. I don't know why but I feel really hurt by this.

So now we finished almost a year and half of MC. We had to stop because insurance ran out. The positive is that she seems willing and trying. Phones, social media, emails, etc are all open book. We both did full panel std test and all was fine. She quit her job and found work at different company. She is really good with the kids (and to be fair, she never neglected them). But I can't get over the sex. We tried to have sex but I would think about why she did all the sex things wtih the OM but not with me and lose interest. Even if I was able, it was angry sex. I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't want to kiss. I just feel dirty and want to take a shower and go to sleep. 

The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. How do I forget???? What can I do?


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## happy as a clam

Sorry, but she did those things with him because of raw animal attraction, lust, and chemistry. Be honest here... did she ever feel that way about you?

If yes, you might be able to rebuild something here. If no, I think you're just setting yourself up for years of misery trying to force feelings after all her treachery, deceit and betrayal. I'm sorry if that seems harsh but as a woman I can tell you honestly, "if I ain't feeling it, I ain't doing it!" She doesn't do those things with you because she's not attracted to you that way.

Personally I'd cut my losses now.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

The sex problem is not with you. You just now see her for who she really is, someone who preferred and was more excited to be with someone else. And you are afraid that if you don't 'perform' she will leave you? How is she helping you perform after all of her deceit , lies and betrayal? Did she claim that she had the affair because the sex with you was boring and that you are not satisfying her sexually?


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## hylton7

she has no respect for you divorce her.


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## TaDor

Yeah, the mind movies... except you have actual movies. 

Does your wife know you have seen these videos now? Sex was a bit tricky with mine as well at first. It is good when the brain isn't bringing the OM into the mix when you are trying to be intimate.

What can you do? You should have asked your MC this a long time ago. But it seems to me, you likely needed a better MC all along. So I can only give you from my angle.
1 - have you both been reading books on affiars? Which ones?

2 - Do you WANT to have anal sex with your wife? Make it a requirement. I can kind of understand her angle on it... she talked to the girls about sex and of course would never do that with her loving husband. hence, with a stranger - sure. Nobody will ever know. (I gather this was on the videos) She may NOT want to do it - thinking that it may make you think of the OM. My wife said the same thing - not about anal sex, but of positions and things - which I told her the truth - doesn't bother me. Its about having fun.

3 - If you cannot heal enough to enjoy sex with your wife - your relationship with your wife is doomed. By all means, this is NOT YOUR FAULT - its all on her. You and or her are going to break down, you may open yourself to a revenger affair.

4 - Two years of sex behind your back, that is very rough. My wife's affair was about 6 weeks before D-Day, and months of bullcrap after that before we got back together. We are 14 months in. I still have trust issues because the OM has made contact with both of us - asking both me and her - if he can be friends with my wife. YEah, WTF - insanity. You have it rougher than usual, sorry.

5 - I don't think you had a good MC. Our MC lasted 24 weeks (once a week) with insurance and grants. My wife pays out of pocket for spot sessions. Which we do every other week. We've done two and likely will do 2-3 more sessions. Check with google or social services and see if you can get in a program or discount therapist. For example - I did about 6 IC sessions. They were mostly worthless. Glad they didn't cost me a dime. He would ask questions and basicly repeat back to me my own thoughts. Whoopti-do! 

Our MC had this to say about therapist. If there is no progress in a relationship within 5 sessions, then he won't waste thier time. And if after 6 months or so - that the couple can't resolve isssues - then likely no amount of MC is going to save a marriage - its just them making money off of you or your insurance. With 18 months of therapy and you are in this condition, either your therapist totally sucked or your marriage is totally doomed. He might of made things worse. Again, what books have you read?

6 - Do you feel that your wife is remorseful (not regret. She regrets getting caught vs remorseful for hurting you)

7 - If you made any progress with books and MC, you should be able to TALK to her about your feelings. The things you posted here, HAVE YOU TOLD HER as well? How you feel and why?

8 - We never forget. Forgive, at best. But yeah, as much as I love my wife and I do. She trusts me. But to her face and in front of our MC, I told her she has a ways to go - especially when the OM contacted me, asking me 3 times to have a "just friends" relationship with my wife. That hurts, that I don't have that trust - that she did betray me.

So try to locate an affordable MC. There are places that charge $25~40~60 a session. One place near us does that. $25 gets you a student (if you're broke - better than nothing). The $40 one gets you someone who is about to graduate / or not quite fully certified. $60 gets you an experinced person. We went with the $60 guy.

Otherwise, you may need to break up, and meet someone else.


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## Taxman

She had no respect for you and you know the truth. Women compartmentalize, men do not. Divorce is your only option. She needs to let you go easy, as she caused this. Let her explain why she f--led up you life.


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## Dannip

The reason you can't get over it is -- you simply can't. No harm. You tried. You've been more than honorable. 

Serve her with D papers and move on with your life. You've proven to yourself already she's not going to be part of it. 

Free yourself. There are tons of real women out there searching for a great guy. Ladies who don't cheat. Give THEM a chance. 

Be that guy. Close this chapter of your life and be happy. You deserve it.


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## manfromlamancha

Scooter123, unfortunately I do not see a remorseful person here. She is sorry she got caught but that is all. She did all those things because she has ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR YOU, leave alone attraction or desire. She is just trying to maintain some semblance of stability/security in her life and if she knew for sure that she wouldn't get caught, would do it again in a heartbeat!

Your best course of action is to not waste anymore money on MC and start preparing to protect yourself financially and with respect to custody. And don't delay because this will only make it worse for you.

In another thread you mentioned your wife was Chinese - is she American Chinese or actually from China? The reason I ask is that it will have a lot of bearing on the effectiveness of any kind of therapy.

Why would you want to stay with a lying, deceitful, immoral person like she is ? And by the way, this may not have been her first rodeo. This may have been going on with others and for longer too. What was she like when you married her ? Keen to snare you ?

Be very careful about remaining in this farce of a marriage.


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## Tatsuhiko

Honestly, will you ever be able to get over this? It's one thing for her to cheat on you in such a no-holds-barred manner. Then it's quite another for her to have refused to do these things with you. What are you to her, some kind of bill-paying patsy jackass babysitter? Has she ever thought of you as a husband? From your original post, it doesn't even sound like she ever bothered to say "sorry" or even "oops"? She just wanted you to shut up and move on? 

Seriously, this woman is sick. Let her find someone else as sick as her, and find a way to keep them from influencing the kids. Go find yourself a wife. A real one this time.


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## RWB

Scooter123 said:


> The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, *they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. *
> 
> I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. *How do I forget???? What can I do?*


S123,

Damn, talk about movies, most of us only have "mind" movies... you've got 1080p. I had no actual video, only email/text sexting recapping my WW PA. That was bad enough. 

It seems that most WW will "give it up" to their AP in ways they never will with their H. This aspect tore me up in the same way as you. My IC told me it all about control/power in the marriage. Your W was using sex to control you... like a pet dog doing tricks for treats. With her AP she had no need to control only take, thus she gave it up freely. My WW finally admitted to this too. 

*How do I forget???? What can I do?*

Sorry... dirty little secret of R... You never forget. Forgive, maybe. Forget ain't happening. Scoot, you lost 4+ years of your life in cheap facade of a marriage. Time to decide... cut bait for the next 4, or go fish.

BTW, the "problem" does not lie with you now. She manipulate, planned, enjoyed, and continue with her affair right up until she was caught. She is/was/still forever will be the problem.


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## arbitrator

*With what all happened to you, reconciliation can be ever so harder to trevass than the divorce process itself!

If an MC can't successfully steer you through this trust impasse, then it may well be in both of your interests to go ahead and file for divorce.

IMHO, you deserve far better out of life, preeminently someone who you can explicitly trust!*


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## Emerging Buddhist

Why does she say she didn't wish for a divorce from her actions?


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## Lostinthought61

Did you expose the affair to the other OM wife?

Does your wife know that you have seen the videos?


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## thedope

Dannip said:


> The reason you can't get over it is -- you simply can't. No harm. You tried. You've been more than honorable.
> 
> Serve her with D papers and move on with your life. You've proven to yourself already she's not going to be part of it.
> 
> Free yourself. There are tons of real women out there searching for a great guy. Ladies who don't cheat. Give THEM a chance.
> 
> Be that guy. Close this chapter of your life and be happy. You deserve it.



I have the same opinion as this. I feel bad for the guy. I wouldn't be able to get over that either.


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## VladDracul

Scooter, take my word for it dawg, if she loved, or even liked, you or the marriage, you wouldn't be here in the first place. It not that esoteric my man; people are willing to do more things with people they like and have an interest in. Think about it like this. Would you rather go on a day trip with someone you like and find exciting to be around or with someone you find to be a drag. Sure, you'll hitch are ride with someone who's a drag, and even share a hamburger with if you're hungry. But you want sample the exotic food with someone that makes you feel all tingly inside. You're wife is no different. Its like my grandaddy use to say, "folks have two type horses in their barn. the one they enjoy riding and the one they use for pulling the supply wagon".

What are you in marriage counseling for anyway? You expect the counselor help you feel better about her "Same time next year" rendezvous and the fact she gives this guy the full monty while doling out only what she absolutely has to have to keep you providing a full range of benefits (of course with significantly de-tuned sex) You're not in "reconciliation". I take that back, you are in reconciliation; reconciliation of how to make a silk purse from a sows ear being yoked to a woman who needs to expand her sexual horizons with men that actually make her blood flow. 

But don't feel bad about the mind movies you're having. She has her share of mind movies to. Quit pretending you're going to hang in there and turn her on to what a sexy guy you are. It ain't going to happen my man. This stuff you hear about affair sex being hotter that marital sex is true because the lady involved has lost, or never had, a requisite level of romantic interest in her husband. (Think about it. Other than romantic interest, people screw pretty much the same way.) Accept it Scooter, the woman just don't dig you that much.


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## GusPolinski

Scooter123 said:


> I wished I found TAM two years ago when I discovered my wife's affair, but better late than never. We've been through counseling and are trying to reconcile, but I'm having lingering issues.
> 
> A bit of background. My wife and I are both in our early 40's and going on our 11th year of marriage. She had an affair with a work colleague four years ago, for two plus years. The OM was from out of town, but they got together whenever their company had their bi-annual week-long conferences and also when he came into town about once every few months for regional meetings. There were signs early on but I didn't listen to my gut. Late-night texts? checked. Taking her cellphone to the bathroom or whenever she left the room? checked. Getting brazilian waxes way more often? checked (she used to do it only once a year before our summer vacation). Buying sexy underwear? checked. She had an excuse for every one of them, and at the time, I just wasn't connecting the dots.
> 
> Anyways, I found out two years ago when she left her work laptop logged in at home. I found the backup texts and emails. They're not only sextings but he sent her video clips of when they had sex with explicit messages. I couldn't bring myself to open the video files for over a week, curious while afraid to find out what's in them. I literally did not sleep during that time. I so wanted to delete them but my logical side told me to get all the evidence before I confronted her. I did eventually watch them and a couple of things stuck with me even to this day. First, she had unprotected sex the whole time. They might've used condoms early on. I don't know. But what I do know is that in the clips she told him to ejaculate inside her. That really really made me angry. So we weren't exactly having a lot of sex during this time, but she still put my health at risk. The lies! It's like pulling teeth. When I confronted her (without telling her I'd seen the messages), she denied it at first. Pressed further, she said they just kissed. Then she said she only gave him oral sex, as if that made it better. She finally admitted to intercourse but lied to my face and said she used condoms. Even now I still haven't gotten a satisfactory explanation for this. Second is she did all the things with him that she wouldn't do with me like anal sex and swallowing. She had always said no to anal sex with me and even in conversations with friends, whenever it came up, she would tell everyone that anal sex is not for her and nothing is going up her butt. What total bs. I don't know why but I feel really hurt by this.
> 
> So now we finished almost a year and half of MC. We had to stop because insurance ran out. The positive is that she seems willing and trying. Phones, social media, emails, etc are all open book. We both did full panel std test and all was fine. She quit her job and found work at different company. She is really good with the kids (and to be fair, she never neglected them). But I can't get over the sex. We tried to have sex but I would think about why she did all the sex things wtih the OM but not with me and lose interest. Even if I was able, it was angry sex. I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't want to kiss. I just feel dirty and want to take a shower and go to sleep.
> 
> The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. How do I forget???? What can I do?


Have you heard about this great new thing called divorce?


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## farsidejunky

@drifting on


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## MattMatt

What might help is NLP.

I am sorry you are in this dreadful situation.


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## PreRaph

You know what I would do if I were you?

I'd tell her directly that you know what she did with the OM. I'd tell her that you know she let him cum inside her, no, she *wanted* him to, she wanted him to put it in her ass and did other things with him that she never did with you, never offered and apparently never wanted to do. I'd then ask her, "what if I did all that with another woman and you found out about it? What would you do?" And I'd follow it up with another question, "Since you obviously wanted sex with him so much more than you ever wanted it with me, how do you expect me to enjoy sex with you ever again?"

Then consider that in all likelihood, as long as you are with your cheating wife, you with never be able to forget or ignore what she did. Consider it hard, for your own sake.


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## aine

Scooter, looks like you really tried hard to get your marriage back on track, but getting rid of the mind movies, is very difficult and may never go away. You have to tell her you have all the actual evidence of what she did with OM and right now you see her as damaged goods. She has to step up to the plate and get you to a place where you want to a mutually satisfying sex life with her. If not then you really have to consider divorce or an open marriage.


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## Scooter123

Thanks everyone for the comments, support, and a dose of reality. It really made it feel better in a strange way to know there are others out there who know how I feel. Some more details based on the questions so far. 



happy as a clam said:


> Sorry, but she did those things with him because of raw animal attraction, lust, and chemistry. Be honest here... did she ever feel that way about you?


This was a harsh dose of reality, but I have to admit, "no." Our sex life was never really exciting or lustful like that with her OM. It was better early one but still nowhere close. I think lust and animal instinct are probably the best description with her and OM. I mean we never had a quickie. Ever. But in some of the clips it was obviously in the middle of the day, in between some programs from their conference because they were in their business outfits, he hiked up her skirt and pulled down her panties and bam, done, went back downstairs for the conference. She didn't even bother cleaning up or wiping. We never did anything close to that. And except for when we were trying to have kids, she always cleaned up in shower after sex with me. It made me sick to my stomach. And that's why I feel dirty whenever we try to have sex now.



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Did she claim that she had the affair because the sex with you was boring and that you are not satisfying her sexually?


She never said it to me, but she said it to her OM in the clips and in texts. She said things like how much bigger he is and he made her come so much more. I confronted her about this and she explained it was just dirty talk and she didn't mean it. Size wise is definitely true, and since she always has a excuse for everything, I'm not sure i believe her. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier. I was really trying to repress it.



TaDor said:


> Does your wife know you have seen these videos now? Do you WANT to have anal sex with your wife? Make it a requirement. I can kind of understand her angle on it... she talked to the girls about sex and of course would never do that with her loving husband. hence, with a stranger - sure. Nobody will ever know. (I gather this was on the videos) She may NOT want to do it - thinking that it may make you think of the OM. My wife said the same thing - not about anal sex, but of positions and things - which I told her the truth - doesn't bother me. Its about having fun.


Yes, she knows now I have seen the videos and everything else. It's really not that I really WANT to have anal sex with her. She didn't want to do it for 11 plus years and I was fine with it. It's the fact that she did it with someone else and not doing it with me that really bothers me. And when I asked her to have anal or whatever else she did with him and not me, she said the same thing your wife said: She didn't want to do it because it's associated with the OM. I just wonder, is she trying to make me not think of the OM, or is she trying to not think of him HERSELF?

I think the best way I could describe it is that she presented herself to me as very conservative but she's opposite with the OM. I could also tell there was more of a power dynamics between her and the OM, with the OM in power. In the sexting, he would tell her to take off her bra at work and flash him her tits and she did it. She did EVERYTHING he asked. I did ask about the anal sex (not because I really wanted it but just wanted to know why) with her and she said she didn't really like it, not even with him. And I sort of believed her because she would tell him that it hurt while they were doing it, but she NEVER asked him to stop or tell him NO! WTF?! I know they did some other crazy crap from the texts and what not but I don't care to know. Sorry but that's all I could stomach for now. I feel like throwing up.

I want to addresss the MC in a bit but need a break now.


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## drifting on

Scooter

My wife had a six month long affair with a coworker. The coworker quit a few months after I found out. I thought at the time I could handle them working together, but I couldn't. I had mind movies that basically brought me to my knees, how I valued intimacy played a huge role in the mind movies. The mind movies were so very disturbing to me, and being intimate with my wife had become a huge struggle. 

How do you value intimacy? Are you in utter disbelief that your wife gave herself away to another man? What was your sex life like, frequent, non existent? How does your wife value intimacy? What led to her straying from the marriage? Was it compliments, listening and attentive to her, or an emotional connection she thought was amazing? If you don't want to put this in your thread, pm me the details and I'll try to help you. 

Mind movies take place in your head from information given or withheld. The fact that you read about their escapades has affected you deeply. It will be a constant reminder that plays over and over until you learn to distract your brain. An example would be to write down a five to ten step routine you do every single day. The brain has a hard time playing the movie while you go through your routine. Say your routine in your head as soon as a mind movie begins. Keep going over your routine until the movie dissipates to not playing. This can occur several times per hour or day, depending on how much the affair comes to your mind. 

What is your wife saying and doing to repair the marriage? Has she told you why she did with him what she wouldn't with you? Have you written down how many times the affair comes to your mind in a twenty four hour period? She needs to know so she can see the extent of your invisible wounds. How many people know of the affair? Did any friends know? If friends did know then they have to be cut from your life too. Have you asked her if she would have sex with you if the roles reversed? 

I hope the best for you, but I think these movies are playing in your head because you have not accepted the affair. You e acknowledged the affair, but have you fully accepted it? I'm not saying to accept the affair happily or with open arms, but to reconcile you will have to accept the affair. 

Best of luck to you.


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## MovingFrwrd

Sorry you're here, man.

Clips like that are now burned into your head - I wish I could say otherwise. Something like that - it's like pandora's box - you want to see for yourself, but you can't stand finding out. 20/20 hindsight - a trusted friend should have viewed that and let you know.

Hell, who am I kidding - you probably would have wanted to see them to verify what they're saying.

First off. After all the counseling - do you still want to try and make this work? You sound similar to me - I had about a year of counseling before I found TAM, and made a ton of mistakes along the way. The short story of this is you're going to f*ck up. With or without counseling or TAM. So, take a deep breath and forgive yourself for your mistakes and try to be your best self every day.

Second. Stay off alcohol/drugs or anything else that is mood altering. You need to work on YOU right now. Get in IC immediately if you're not already.

Third. What she told her lover is, sadly, the truth for her at the time. I'll say this short and sweet. If you can't get past that, I highly recommend you follow the D route because you'll never forget or get over that. That's something that cuts to the core and leaves a scar that lasts forever.

Lastly. With such overpowering evidence and pain, why are you trying to stay with her? That's a question only you can answer, and you'll have to look deeply into it. Are you trying to do what you're supposed to do? That is - you're supposed to find a way to make marriage work because that's how you were brought up?

R is a long and hard road - and that's without having such powerful visual and emotional evidence that you have to fight night and day. I support what you choose, but make sure you verify motives and reasons before jumping one way or the other.


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## VladDracul

Scooter123 said:


> She never said it to me, but she said it to her OM in the clips and in texts. She said things like how much bigger he is and he made her come so much more. I confronted her about this and she explained it was just dirty talk and she didn't mean it. Size wise is definitely true, and since she always has a excuse for everything, I'm not sure i believe her. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier. I was really trying to repress it.





MovingFrwrd said:


> Third. What she told her lover is, sadly, the truth for her at the time. I'll say this short and sweet. If you can't get past that, I highly recommend you follow the D route because you'll never forget or get over that. That's something that cuts to the core and leaves a scar that lasts forever.


Some of you guy just simply don't have and will never have a clue as to why women say what they do. She wasn't telling her joy stick what she believed was true (albeit it may be). She was telling him that to stroke his ego, to make him feel good, and show his importance, his top spot on the totem pole and his dominion over her husband from her perspective. If you've been out with even a few married woman, you'd know how many tell you how much they hate and can't stand him, how the fire went out years before, being around him makes her as dry the Mojave desert, how she fakes aches and pains so he won't touch her, et cetera, only to have her go home and fix him a nice meal. One former client of mine use to stop and buy her old man items from the bakery after spending hours in the one room apartment she and a couple of other chicks had rented. Like most everybody, married folks know what side their bread is buttered and they ain't willing to give that up just because a piece of azz comes along. Like a long married chick said, "boyfriends come and go. Husbands are around when the bills come due. It ain't a bad trade off)


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## Lostinthought61

Honestly scooter I would stop jacking around and I would give her an ultimatum....simple as that she needs to know that your done with her crap and she does not step up your going to divorce...getting else where and show these videos to her family....that kind of crap don't fly.


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## sokillme

So regardless about how I feel about if you are settling by being with someone who could treat you so bad, as we all know my thoughts on that. Just dealing with this issue. First of everything I say here is totally unfair to you that you would have to do this. She doesn't deserve it, someone other women does. That being said you seem to want her still, so lets say she never did what she did. My question then to YOU would be are you doing what it takes to be desirable? What is it she needs to make her want screaming from the ceiling sex with you? If it just comes down to **** size and being taller or whatever then not much you can do, However for most I don't think that is the case. First off have you asked? 

Are you in shape? What kind of body does she like? Does she need you to flirt with her? Talk dirty to her? Send her poems? Be assertive?

By the way this is not about comparing yourself to that *******. Have you asked her what specifically turns you on what makes you want to jump a man's bones? What would make you want to jump my bones? Can you handle that? If she could tell you would you be willing to work on it? I am not sure if you can make someone desire you if there is no attraction. However if there is an initial attraction I am damn sure you can turn that up. You just have to learn how to do that. 

If you are determined to stay with her why not start there. Again if this is about things physically that you are not capable of changing then so be it. If she is just rotten enough that it was the forbidden nature that turned her on then why would you want her anyway. However if this is just you are expecting her to want to jump your bones just by being, than frankly I don't think that is reasonable. You nor I nor most men are Hugh Jackman. And Hugh Jackman 30 pounds overweight in sweats and t-shirt all the time isn't Hugh Jackman of x-men fame. If you are an you get that type of lust it is usually about the newness of it all. Most people need to work on this stuff to keep it alive. 

If you are willing to do that then I say try it. If it doesn't work it may just be that she settled on you because you were safe. If so then you are better off without her. 

Now let me give you some advice from someone who has lost 50 pounds and probably put on 10 pounds of muscle weight. This being a year of hard work every day and stopping eating crap all the time. If you want to have any women lust after you which all men do then you have to work for that no matter who it is. In my case I want my wife to lust after me, and I got some of this that I am saying here from reading on boards. Actually that is the only beneficial thing I got from the stupid Red Pill. It was ridiculous an frankly disrespectful for me to expect that from any women, past or present, when I wasn't working damn hard to be that. Too many men expect their wives to want to jump their bones without even asking them what they could do to make them want to jump their bones. AND THEN WORKING DAMN HARD TO BE THAT FOR THEM. Generally speaking it's much easier for us to lust after women it doesn't take as much. Generally women need to have more buttons pushed whatever that is. But nothing is stopping you from learning how to do that, whatever it is. But you have to strive to learn how to do it. So get in great shape. Lift weights, dress nice, learn how to talk if you are not good at it, be assertive, be interesting, have something to offer. That goes for whoever you are with. Even the most handsome guys in the world work to be that way. Google "Chris Pratt 2010" then google "Chris Pratt 2017", if you want to be the Alpha guy as Red Pill stupidly puts it you got to strive and work hard to be "Chris Pratt 2017". 

I can hear the blow back. You don't need to be built like Chris Pratt 2017 to have women like you. True but we are not talking about women liking you, we are talking about women lusting for you. That is what OP wants he has to work for it. However if it was me I would do that work but look for a loyal person to do that for, why reward her when if he does it he will have many more better choices. 

I really won't write what I think about your wife, just to say it would be very easy to do better. I think you should follow my advice get in great shape get your wife to lust for you then dump her. You are settling for SO much less then what you could have OP. She has treated you worse then any human being should treat anyone that specially goes to her character an worth in a relationship. Nothing. She really deserves to be alone and stuck with shallow men who use her body for sex for a very long time. Not a decent man who loved her and was willing to give his whole entire life and effort for her. Maybe she and even more important YOU don't get that, but you should. YOU OP are so much more the valuable prize here in this situation, and frankly 99% of the people here would tell you such. Everyone is better off alone then to be with a spouse who has a 2 year affair,makes sex tapes and puts you down to their AP. What exactly does she provide for you that you couldn't get better from someone else? But it's your life only you can change it.


----------



## PreRaph

VladDracul said:


> Some of you guy just simply don't have and will never have a clue as to why women say what they do. She wasn't telling her joy stick what she believed was true (albeit it may be). She was telling him that to stroke his ego, to make him feel good, and show his importance, his top spot on the totem pole and his dominion over her husband from her perspective. If you've been out with even a few married woman, you'd know how many tell you how much they hate and can't stand him, how the fire went out years before, being around him makes her as dry the Mojave desert, how she fakes aches and pains so he won't touch her, et cetera, only to have her go home and fix him a nice meal. One former client of mine use to stop and buy her old man items from the bakery after spending hours in the one room apartment she and a couple of other chicks had rented. Like most everybody, married folks know what side their bread is buttered and they ain't willing to give that up just because a piece of azz comes along. Like a long married chick said, "boyfriends come and go. Husbands are around when the bills come due. It ain't a bad trade off)


That's about the size of it in this case, I'm afraid. I don't see much of any other way to look at it. Her motive was to put him and his wonderful member up on the pedestal by putting you and yours down.

I'm trying not to tell you what to do OP, it's not my place, but if you are going to try and reconcile, be fully aware of what you are trying to forgive.


----------



## sokillme

VladDracul said:


> Some of you guy just simply don't have and will never have a clue as to why women say what they do. She wasn't telling her joy stick what she believed was true (albeit it may be). She was telling him that to stroke his ego, to make him feel good, and show his importance, his top spot on the totem pole and his dominion over her husband from her perspective. If you've been out with even a few married woman, you'd know how many tell you how much they hate and can't stand him, how the fire went out years before, being around him makes her as dry the Mojave desert, how she fakes aches and pains so he won't touch her, et cetera, only to have her go home and fix him a nice meal. One former client of mine use to stop and buy her old man items from the bakery after spending hours in the one room apartment she and a couple of other chicks had rented. Like most everybody, married folks know what side their bread is buttered and they ain't willing to give that up just because a piece of azz comes along. Like a long married chick said, "boyfriends come and go. Husbands are around when the bills come due. It ain't a bad trade off)


This should be like pinned hear. I whole heatedly and 100% agree with everything you just wrote and it's why I think the way I do. 

What I am going to say next doesn't refer to someone who had a drunken one night stand however anyone who has had an affair I think this holds true--

This is SO MUCH the mindset of unfaithful people. This is exactly who they are. 

There are people who are like "I love my spouse and would never cheat or brake my covenant because it's wrong and I am not that person. I care more about being a good person then getting sexual gratification." And then there are people who think like your post. That is really it in my mind. Once you get that you stop trying to make someone who thinks like your post think like someone who thinks like what I just described. It's just not worth the effort. Even at their best they are only doing it to keep peace. They are like two completely different species.

Can people change, yes a very few people eventually get it and feel great guilt about what they did, but it seems awful convenient after they got everything they wanted before they changed.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Scooter123 said:


> ...he hiked up her skirt and pulled down her panties and bam, done, went back downstairs for the conference. She didn't even bother cleaning up or wiping.


Well ain't _*she*_ a class act? 



> And when I asked her to have anal or whatever else she did with him and not me, she said the same thing your wife said: She didn't want to do it because it's associated with the OM. I just wonder, is she trying to make me not think of the OM, or is she trying to not think of him HERSELF?


What a steaming pile of bull**** THAT is. Wonder how long it took her to make up *that* ridiculous excuse.

Look, you're asking her to do things that she wouldn't do with you BEFORE she had her affair. Here it is 2 years after the affair and she's STILL telling you no. So whatever reasons she had to say "no" *before *the affair are still the same reasons you're hearing "no" now. Her creep OM has nothing to do with her refusal to experiment with you. I will say her slimy - but _very_ transparent - attempt to use her OM as an excuse "because she doesn't want to do anything associated with the OM" is downright laughable. Since these two fools pretty much did everything under the sun, wouldn't it stand to reason that ANYTHING she does with you would be 'associated' with the OM? Did they kiss? Did they hug? Did they engage in oral sex? Back rubs? Kissing the neck? I would have to assume she can't do ANY of that with you either since it's 'associated with the OM and all.'

She's such a lying phony.

You can go to MC until the cows come home. It's not going to change the way you see her now. Hell not even a gallon of brain bleach will do *that*.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband

(feeling orrnery, probably should keep this to myself)

That said, sex/intimacy is a form of currency. She paid the OM in acts she would never give you. Gave him everything he wanted. You, you can go jerk off, your not worthy of her best sex. THAT'S her attitude. Sorry, if she ain't offering up 10X what she gave the OM, she's just jerkin your chain & not your D---.

I say this for BOTH men & women. Your SPOUSE deserves the best SEX you have ever been involved with in your life. 

If she was lacking something from you, she could have opened her mouth and spoke to you instead of sucking someone else.

Giving it up to some POS OM/OW is shoving a crap sandwich down your spouses throat.

As posted by someone else earlier. Get in the best shape of your life, while filing for divorce. She needs to work to keep you.


----------



## PreRaph

> What a steaming pile of bull**** THAT is. Wonder how long it took her to make up *that* ridiculous excuse.
> 
> Look, you're asking her to do things that she wouldn't do with you BEFORE she had her affair. Here it is 2 years after the affair and she's STILL telling you no. So whatever reasons she had to say "no" *before *the affair are still the same reasons you're hearing "no" now. Her creep OM has nothing to do with her refusal to experiment with you. I will say her slimy - but _very_ transparent - attempt to use her OM as an excuse "because she doesn't want to do anything associated with the OM" is downright laughable. Since these two fools pretty much did everything under the sun, wouldn't it stand to reason that ANYTHING she does with you would be 'associated' with the OM? Did they kiss? Did they hug? Did they engage in oral sex? Back rubs? Kissing the neck? I would have to assume she can't do ANY of that with you either since it's 'associated with the OM and all.'
> 
> She's such a lying phony.
> 
> You can go to MC until the cows come home. It's not going to change the way you see her now. Hell not even a gallon of brain bleach will do *that*.


I could not have said it any better :smthumbup:


----------



## sokillme

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> (feeling orrnery, probably should keep this to myself)
> 
> That said, sex/intimacy is a form of currency. She paid the OM in acts she would never give you. Gave him everything he wanted. You, you can go jerk off, your not worthy of her best sex. THAT'S her attitude. Sorry, if she ain't offering up 10X what she gave the OM, she's just jerkin your chain & not your D---.
> 
> I say this for BOTH men & women. Your SPOUSE deserves the best SEX you have ever been involved with in your life.
> 
> If she was lacking something from you, she could have opened her mouth and spoke to you instead of sucking someone else.
> 
> Giving it up to some POS OM/OW is shoving a crap sandwich down your spouses throat.
> 
> As posted by someone else earlier. Get in the best shape of your life, while filing for divorce. She needs to work to keep you.


I never post this because I think it is morally wrong to do and I don't want to give people ideas but the truth is YES she does see sex as currency. If OP was the kind of man her AP was he could completely manipulate her to his advantage. In the payment context his biggest problem is when it comes to this kind of women he has given everything she needs to her for free. In fact I think lost of WS are like this, that is why when there is a real threat of the loss of the relationship then the hysterical bonding and crazy sex starts. But that is the problem it's never real it's payment like you said. Payment to get the security they need from their spouse or to get their dopamine fix from their affair partner. It is never about healthy experimenting and bonding as sex should be. Sex isn't an expression of love, it's an act to get stuff.


----------



## MattMatt

Scooter123 said:


> Thanks everyone for the comments, support, and a dose of reality. It really made it feel better in a strange way to know there are others out there who know how I feel. Some more details based on the questions so far.
> 
> 
> 
> This was a harsh dose of reality, but I have to admit, "no." Our sex life was never really exciting or lustful like that with her OM. It was better early one but still nowhere close. I think lust and animal instinct are probably the best description with her and OM. I mean we never had a quickie. Ever. But in some of the clips it was obviously in the middle of the day, in between some programs from their conference because they were in their business outfits, he hiked up her skirt and pulled down her panties and bam, done, went back downstairs for the conference. She didn't even bother cleaning up or wiping. We never did anything close to that. And except for when we were trying to have kids, she always cleaned up in shower after sex with me. It made me sick to my stomach. And that's why I feel dirty whenever we try to have sex now.
> 
> 
> 
> She never said it to me, but she said it to her OM in the clips and in texts. She said things like how much bigger he is and he made her come so much more. I confronted her about this and she explained it was just dirty talk and she didn't mean it. Size wise is definitely true, and since she always has a excuse for everything, I'm not sure i believe her. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier. I was really trying to repress it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, she knows now I have seen the videos and everything else. It's really not that I really WANT to have anal sex with her. She didn't want to do it for 11 plus years and I was fine with it. It's the fact that she did it with someone else and not doing it with me that really bothers me. And when I asked her to have anal or whatever else she did with him and not me, she said the same thing your wife said: She didn't want to do it because it's associated with the OM. I just wonder, is she trying to make me not think of the OM, or is she trying to not think of him HERSELF?
> 
> I think the best way I could describe it is that she presented herself to me as very conservative but she's opposite with the OM. I could also tell there was more of a power dynamics between her and the OM, with the OM in power. In the sexting, he would tell her to take off her bra at work and flash him her tits and she did it. She did EVERYTHING he asked. I did ask about the anal sex (not because I really wanted it but just wanted to know why) with her and she said she didn't really like it, not even with him. And I sort of believed her because she would tell him that it hurt while they were doing it, but she NEVER asked him to stop or tell him NO! WTF?! I know they did some other crazy crap from the texts and what not but I don't care to know. Sorry but that's all I could stomach for now. I feel like throwing up.
> 
> I want to addresss the MC in a bit but need a break now.


She did dirty nasty things with her dirty nasty Affair Partner.

Would she do dirty nasty things with the love of her life, her clean, decent husband?

Probably not.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

sokillme said:


> I never post this because I think it is morally wrong to do and I don't want to give people ideas but the truth is YES she does see sex as currency. If OP was the kind of man her AP was he could completely manipulate her to his advantage. In the payment context his biggest problem is when it comes to this kind of women he has given everything she needs to her for free. In fact I think lost of WS are like this, that is why when there is a real threat of the loss of the relationship then the hysterical bonding and crazy sex starts. But that is the problem it's never real it's payment like you said. Payment to get the security they need from their spouse or to get their dopamine fix from their affair partner. It is never about healthy experimenting and bonding as sex should be. Sex isn't an expression of love, it's an act to get stuff.


I agree, sex is way more than a currency to some, AS it should be!

And sadly, OP will never get what he needs from his wife.

He will never be able to project the attitude of "Roll over, your next" attitude that seems to turn some women on.


----------



## Scooter123

manfromlamancha said:


> In another thread you mentioned your wife was Chinese - is she American Chinese or actually from China? The reason I ask is that it will have a lot of bearing on the effectiveness of any kind of therapy.


She is more Chinese-American. She came here from Hong Kong for college and been here since.




Lostinthought61 said:


> Did you expose the affair to the other OM wife?
> 
> Does your wife know that you have seen the videos?


yeah, I did. I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the OM about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible. I found out where the OM lives and fedex a flashdrive of all the evidence to his wife and left my phone number. She never contacted me and I have no contact with the OM. I'm pretty sure my WW cut off contact with him.

My WW knows I have seen the videos and texts and everything else. 

I have suspicion that some of her co-workers might have known. She had pics of her and OM together from nights out during the conferences and they were close. He had his hand on the top of her butt in some group pics, and in one group dinner photo, I could see his hand on the inside of her thigh. It's so ballsy and I couldn't believe no one noticed. I did talk to my best friend and he said it's something he wouldn't have noticed though. The dinner pic requires zooming in to see it, so it could be just me. But doesn't really matter, does it?



TaDor said:


> Do you feel that your wife is remorseful (not regret. She regrets getting caught vs remorseful for hurting you). The things you posted here, HAVE YOU TOLD HER as well? How you feel and why?


It's tough to say, remorse or regret. I honestly don't know. I've told my WW, and she basically said it's a momentary lapse in judgment. Yeah, for 2 years?! This brings me to the MC. So in one of the early sessions, I could ask all the questions I wanted to my WW re the PA and she had to answer honestly. Other than that, we didn't get too deep into the sex stuff. Our MC said she's not a sex therapist and we might need that, but that's not covered by our insurance. What she did was to give us exercises/homework to slowly get back the intimacy. We were trying but we didn't have intercourse while in therapy, and the MC said it may take a while for that to happen. We worked mostly on communication, managing emotions, and rebuilding trust with the MC and how to handle the kids. I did air my feelings, and WW's response was that she didn't feel she got attention from me and she felt attractive and the attention when with OM. 

Quite a few posters mentioned divorce, and believe me I've thought about it a million times. It always comes down to the kids. They are 9 and 7. One thing I'm proud of is that despite all the turmoil, I have kept it away from the kids and provided them stability, even if it might be built on a pack of lies. And like I said before, WW has done the same. This seems to be the one area that we still do well, for what it's worth.


----------



## Ckone1800

Scooter123 said:


> She is more Chinese-American. She came here from Hong Kong for college and been here since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, I did. I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the OM about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible. I found out where the OM lives and fedex a flashdrive of all the evidence to his wife and left my phone number. She never contacted me and I have no contact with the OM. I'm pretty sure my WW cut off contact with him.
> 
> 
> 
> My WW knows I have seen the videos and texts and everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> I have suspicion that some of her co-workers might have known. She had pics of her and OM together from nights out during the conferences and they were close. He had his hand on the top of her butt in some group pics, and in one group dinner photo, I could see his hand on the inside of her thigh. It's so ballsy and I couldn't believe no one noticed. I did talk to my best friend and he said it's something he wouldn't have noticed though. The dinner pic requires zooming in to see it, so it could be just me. But doesn't really matter, does it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's tough to say, remorse or regret. I honestly don't know. I've told my WW, and she basically said it's a momentary lapse in judgment. Yeah, for 2 years?! This brings me to the MC. So in one of the early sessions, I could ask all the questions I wanted to my WW re the PA and she had to answer honestly. Other than that, we didn't get too deep into the sex stuff. Our MC said she's not a sex therapist and we might need that, but that's not covered by our insurance. What she did was to give us exercises/homework to slowly get back the intimacy. We were trying but we didn't have intercourse while in therapy, and the MC said it may take a while for that to happen. We worked mostly on communication, managing emotions, and rebuilding trust with the MC and how to handle the kids. I did air my feelings, and WW's response was that she didn't feel she got attention from me and she felt attractive and the attention when with OM.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a few posters mentioned divorce, and believe me I've thought about it a million times. It always comes down to the kids. They are 9 and 7. One thing I'm proud of is that despite all the turmoil, I have kept it away from the kids and provided them stability, even if it might be built on a pack of lies. And like I said before, WW has done the same. This seems to be the one area that we still do well, for what it's worth.




You want to teach your children to live a lie to protect others and their image? Doesn't sound like you're doing them any favors. 

Being from a broken home is better than currently living in one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hylton7

scooter123 said:


> she is more chinese-american. She came here from hong kong for college and been here since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, i did. I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the om about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible. I found out where the om lives and fedex a flashdrive of all the evidence to his wife and left my phone number. She never contacted me and i have no contact with the om. I'm pretty sure my ww cut off contact with him.
> 
> My ww knows i have seen the videos and texts and everything else.
> 
> I have suspicion that some of her co-workers might have known. She had pics of her and om together from nights out during the conferences and they were close. He had his hand on the top of her butt in some group pics, and in one group dinner photo, i could see his hand on the inside of her thigh. It's so ballsy and i couldn't believe no one noticed. I did talk to my best friend and he said it's something he wouldn't have noticed though. The dinner pic requires zooming in to see it, so it could be just me. But doesn't really matter, does it?
> 
> 
> 
> It's tough to say, remorse or regret. I honestly don't know. I've told my ww, and she basically said it's a momentary lapse in judgment. Yeah, for 2 years?! This brings me to the mc. So in one of the early sessions, i could ask all the questions i wanted to my ww re the pa and she had to answer honestly. Other than that, we didn't get too deep into the sex stuff. Our mc said she's not a sex therapist and we might need that, but that's not covered by our insurance. What she did was to give us exercises/homework to slowly get back the intimacy. We were trying but we didn't have intercourse while in therapy, and the mc said it may take a while for that to happen. We worked mostly on communication, managing emotions, and rebuilding trust with the mc and how to handle the kids. I did air my feelings, and ww's response was that she didn't feel she got attention from me and she felt attractive and the attention when with om.
> 
> Quite a few posters mentioned divorce, and believe me i've thought about it a million times. It always comes down to the kids. They are 9 and 7. One thing i'm proud of is that despite all the turmoil, i have kept it away from the kids and provided them stability, even if it might be built on a pack of lies. And like i said before, ww has done the same. This seems to be the one area that we still do well, for what it's worth.


never stay in a bad marriage for the kids dude she has no respect for you.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

You have to ask yourself honestly if there's any set of actions/conditions that will help you get past this nagging feeling? Is there really anything your wife can do to make this better? A confession to her parents? How many apologies would put it to rest? How many gallons would she have to swallow to make this right? And even if she did all these things she did so willingly with the other man, would it feel sincere on her part? If you were me, you'd then spend the rest of your life questioning whether she just went through the motions just to shut you up. Putting myself in your shoes, I cannot see a path where the marriage could continue. You can't smash a vase into a million pieces and hope to glue it back together again. Sorry.

On D-day, she should have been on the floor, crying and pleading for you to stay. She should have been ready and willing to engage in whatever acts you wished, throwing herself at your mercy. She should have taken on a side job flipping burgers to pay for the MC that insurance would not cover. That would have been the beginning of remorse, but that opportunity has long since passed. It sounds instead like she views reconciliation as a negotiation process, where she only has to begrudgingly give up the bare minimum. You've already been a saint for even showing the willingness to work with her. But make no mistake, she sees you as less of a man for having done so. In her eyes, you're the guy who's willing to put up with his wife having sex with other guys. This is not an attractive quality to her. In her eyes, real men take her however they wish, even when it physically hurts. It's sick. 

Like someone else in here said, you don't know what else your wife has done. Yes, she reluctantly copped to "momentary lapses" that appeared in a video (LOL, who wouldn't?). But what about her other studs who didn't happen to have their cameras running? You should consider doing a DNA test on your children. The reason I say this is that your wife appears to view you as some sort of cuckold. She has a strong, unacknowledged desire to produce offspring with other men, but is committed to keeping you around to feed them and change diapers. The DNA test can be administered to your kids under the guise of finding more about their ethnic makeup and family tree, so that they don't get wind of what's going on. Yes, you'll always love them as your children. But a test that reveals that you're not their father, maybe you'll finally see your wife for the messed up person that she really is.


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## VladDracul

MattMatt said:


> Would she do dirty nasty things with the love of her life, her clean, decent husband?


I'd bet and give reasonable odds the love of her life and her clean, decent husband are not the same cat.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Everyone else said pretty much what I feel with very few exceptions. So, I'll add something different. You did 18 months of marriage counseling. This isn't you just finding out and rushing to divorce. You are here because you feel guilty she may be trying and you feel like you are giving up on the marriage. 
You tried for over a year and a half to do your best right? 
You were honest with your feelings in MC right?
You tried to work through everything, but not just the images, but what she did and DOESN'T allow you to do is damaging the marriage right?

You do understand no matter how hard you try, some things just can't be fixed? You do understand it is okay to move on when you tried your best? Yes, even with kids.
Don't worry, some posters will be along to tell you sex isn't that important. I always scoff because cheaters seem to think it is very important when they throw it back in your face.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Scooter123 said:


> I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the OM about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible.


I just caught this bit now. It didn't register the first time I read it. Part of me doesn't even want to ask what things were said about you. As if she couldn't find a way to twist the knife in your back any further. Sheesh, dump her. Yesterday.

In 10 years, the two of you can provide an honest explanation to the kids about why you divorced. Keeping the videos in a safe place will help ensure your ex-wife's honesty in this regard.


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## WorkingOnMe

Why should she do any of that sexual stuff with you? It's obvious that you aren't going anywhere and that you are going to put up with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed

Scooter123 said:


> Yes, she knows now I have seen the videos and everything else. It's really not that I really WANT to have anal sex with her. She didn't want to do it for 11 plus years and I was fine with it. It's the fact that she did it with someone else and not doing it with me that really bothers me. And when I asked her to have anal or whatever else she did with him and not me, she said the same thing your wife said: *She didn't want to do it because it's associated with the OM. * _*I just wonder, is she trying to make me not think of the OM, or is she trying to not think of him HERSELF?*_


 It's neither of those. She's trying to keep that memory special and doesn't want to sully it by doing it with you as well. That would just make it a regular thing then. She is blatantly telling you that you are not as worthy in her eyes as her AP. Even though it's bull**** that's the distorted reality she lives in and what you will have to choke down if you stay with her.


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## becareful2

Scooter123 said:


> She is more Chinese-American. She came here from Hong Kong for college and been here since.


Isn't that VISA fraud?

You need to send the evidence to her parents in Hong Kong. Include with it a note that says "This is the kind of daughter you raised."
If you can find the OM's wife online via a social network account, then contact her. There's a chance the first package you sent was intercepted by the OM.

What you need is peace, and not only did your wife took that away from you, she injected you with mental poison. I think the best way to flush this poison from your mind is to create authentic memories with a new woman, someone who is honorable, faithful, loves you and more importantly, respects you. It seems like it will not be your wife who will help you heal but it will be the next woman you marry. 

Are you afraid that your cheating wife is the best you can do? Have all the other good women out there gone extinct? 

Your wife may have married you to stay in the country.


----------



## sokillme

Ckone1800 said:


> You want to teach your children to live a lie to protect others and their image? Doesn't sound like you're doing them any favors.
> 
> Being from a broken home is better than currently living in one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So true. This ain't the 50's half their friends are in the same boat there is a good chance the people they marry will also be from one too. Marriages with abuse are not exactly the most healthy.


----------



## TX-SC

So, they had a quickie in a motel room where he just lifted up her dress and left his clothes on, and yet it was video taped? 

Also, I'm confused about why someone would cheat (both of them were cheating, right?) and yet they made, and kept, so many videos of it? It all makes no sense at all.


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## sokillme

Nothing is worse then being married and wishing YOU had been your spouses affair partner because THEY were the ones who got their best. I can think of nothing more sad then that. Life is too short.


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## VladDracul

TX-SC said:


> So, they had a quickie in a motel room where he just lifted up her dress and left his clothes on, and yet it was video taped?
> 
> Also, I'm confused about why someone would cheat (both of them were cheating, right?) and yet they made, and kept, so many videos of it? It all makes no sense at all.


Good question TX. And I'm waiting to hear the answer. This is getting good.


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## Lostinthought61

Scooter, your story was on my mind most of the day, putting myself in your shoes and i have this final thought that i want to share with you......even if you could persuade your wife to give in sexual, she would not being giving it up freely, with love or lust but be giving in due to guilt.....frankly i would not want that....she has tainted the waters of what could be, of what should be....your marriage is crowded...even without his presence there physically, he is there in spirit haunting her dreams and your nightmares... ..i want someone who loves me for me, my flaws in all......Scooter, you will never have that with her, she will do all the right things, she will try to make you happy, but in the end she will fail, because you can not find happiness with her any more, you can mask it, you can pretend, but in the end you will be the consolation prize behind door number 2.......so what are your choices....the first choice is divorce...move on...clean slate....no mind movies...peace...or and this is a big maybe and not positive it will work, but stay married and find someone who you can have a relationship with, and maybe your wife will fight tooth or nail for you and maybe this will ease her guilt. either way your further away along then you were 2 years ago.

PS have you thought to bring her here to hear from others?


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## oldshirt

No where is it written that you have to continue to love and respect and hold high esteem for a spouse that has so blatantly dishonored and disrespected you. 

When someone cheats, a very real risk they take is that their BS will lose all desire and attraction and esteem for them. That is the risk they take and no one on the planet will blame you for losing those feelings for her after what she has done. It's suprising in fact that you have tried this hard and have continued to try for this long. 

The only reason she is with you right now is because you are committed to keeping this from the kids and because the OM lived far away and probably threw her under the bus when his wife busted him. Otherwise she would still be bopping him now. In other words, she is using you to help pay bills and help raise the kids. 

And speaking of the kids - despite what the church ladies and your wife tell you, children are not harmed or damaged by divorce. They are harmed by abuse, chemical addiction/alcoholism, neglect, abandonment and living in an environment of chronic hostility/violence etc. 

They are not harmed at all by having two loving, supportive parents that are involved in their lives and that love and take care of them........that happen to live in two separate homes. 

They may be inconvenienced by spending certain times in one parent's house and then other times in the other parents house, but they are not harmed or damaged by two loving and supporting parents getting a divorce and living in separate houses. 

In fact, you are liking role modeling to them that it is ok to be severely disrespected and dishonored and to be grossly cheated on as long as you suck it up and take and pretend that things are ok. 

You are teaching your son to be a doormat for cheating women to wipe their feet on and you are teaching your daughter it is ok to carry on a double life and lie and cheat and use her husband as a live-in babysitter and bill payer while she has wild monkey sex with other men in hotel rooms and exposes her husband to STDs. 

Our primary job as parents is to not only feed, clothe and house them, but to prepare them for the adult world and part of that preparation is to model for them how not to be manipulated, lied to, cheated on and dishonored and disrespected. Children need to see that some behaviors and character flaws have repurcussions and consequences. 

Some people will give you kudos for trying. But no one is going to fault you or second guess you or fault you for not being able to bring yourself to being loving and accepting and desiring of her after what she has done. That is the risk she took and that is the consequences of her actions. 

You did try. You did suck it up and soldier on in a situation that most men would have just kicked the #$%$ out. 

But there is no statute of limitations on realizing you just can't bring yourself to love and accept someone who has treated you this horribly. You gave it a good shot. You can sleep at night now telling yourself that you tried.


----------



## aine

VladDracul said:


> Some of you guy just simply don't have and will never have a clue as to why women say what they do. She wasn't telling her joy stick what she believed was true (albeit it may be). She was telling him that to stroke his ego, to make him feel good, and show his importance, his top spot on the totem pole and his dominion over her husband from her perspective. If you've been out with even a few married woman, you'd know how many tell you how much they hate and can't stand him, how the fire went out years before, being around him makes her as dry the Mojave desert, how she fakes aches and pains so he won't touch her, et cetera, only to have her go home and fix him a nice meal. One former client of mine use to stop and buy her old man items from the bakery after spending hours in the one room apartment she and a couple of other chicks had rented. Like most everybody, married folks know what side their bread is buttered and they ain't willing to give that up just because a piece of azz comes along. Like a long married chick said, "boyfriends come and go. Husbands are around when the bills come due. It ain't a bad trade off)


Don,t want to thread-jack but I think these kind of generalizations are not helpful. Not all wives are like this. I have many friends and myself whose H's are ****heads and bastards, having cheated, never around, etc yet these wives are faithful, take care of their families and hold things together.

And there are also many men who do exactly the same thing, get a bit on the side and go home to their wives and families after dipping their sticks elsewhere , so cut it out with the generalizations please!


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## Scooter123

I really appreciate the different perspectives. I get that she and I will not have wild and crazy sex like her and the OM and that I am not the guy that she'll lust after. I talked to her as much and she said she doesn't need it and that it was a passing phase. Sure, she could be lying, but leaving that out for the moment. I'm trying to get a bit of a sexual marriage going. We are both trying to get us back on the sexual bandwagon, but the mind movies, actual in my case, get in the way. So let me ask this: I get that it's unsalvagable for many, but has anyone conquered their mind movies of their WS and actually rediscovered a sexual marriage, in whatever form? 

I get that divorce may be inevitable. I absolutely understand what everyone is saying. I have my reasons for trying to save it. After trying to do it for 2 years, call it a last ditch effort. It may be all for nothing. I don't know.



drifting on said:


> How do you value intimacy? Are you in utter disbelief that your wife gave herself away to another man? What was your sex life like, frequent, non existent? How does your wife value intimacy? What led to her straying from the marriage? Was it compliments, listening and attentive to her, or an emotional connection she thought was amazing? If you don't want to put this in your thread, pm me the details and I'll try to help you. What is your wife saying and doing to repair the marriage? Has she told you why she did with him what she wouldn't with you? Have you written down how many times the affair comes to your mind in a twenty four hour period? She needs to know so she can see the extent of your invisible wounds. How many people know of the affair? Did any friends know? If friends did know then they have to be cut from your life too. Have you asked her if she would have sex with you if the roles reversed? I hope the best for you, but I think these movies are playing in your head because you have not accepted the affair. You e acknowledged the affair, but have you fully accepted it? I'm not saying to accept the affair happily or with open arms, but to reconcile you will have to accept the affair.


Of course I was in total disbelief when I found out about the PA. Having time to digest it now, it's not just the PA, but the ****ty and nasty things she did. I simply didn't think she had it in her. I do value intimacy but one thing that came out of counseling is that she values and needs it way more than me. Our "love language" is totally different. I've been trying to make time, but with two kids and a demanding job, I can't always be there. When we were dating, sex was like twice a week. Then once a week during marriage before the kids. Before her PA, it was like once every few months, and of course down to non-existent once the PA started. She said she had the PA because the OM always gave her compliments and she felt sexual and attractive. The thoughts of the PA nowadays only comes to mind when we try to be intimate. Honestly, I don't have time to think about it the rest of the time.

Can you expand on what you mean by "accepting" the affair? And thanks for the tip on doing the routine. 



Tatsuhiko said:


> You have to ask yourself honestly if there's any set of actions/conditions that will help you get past this nagging feeling? Is there really anything your wife can do to make this better? A confession to her parents? How many apologies would put it to rest? How many gallons would she have to swallow to make this right? And even if she did all these things she did so willingly with the other man, would it feel sincere on her part? If you were me, you'd then spend the rest of your life questioning whether she just went through the motions just to shut you up. Putting myself in your shoes, I cannot see a path where the marriage could continue. You can't smash a vase into a million pieces and hope to glue it back together again. Sorry.


I think that's the rub. Don't think there is anything she can do at this point. She said all the right things at MC. Like another poster said, accept and move on, or divorce. Not worried about the kids paternity though. They have an uncanny resemblance to me. 

First time I heard the term "cuckold". Had to google it. I admit many of the characteristics are there, but cuckold seems to be consensual, as in the husband knowing the wife is sleeping with others and getting some sexual high from being demeaned by her and her lovers. Not sure how that's possible if I didn't know about it and not getting any joy out of it.



TX-SC said:


> Also, I'm confused about why someone would cheat (both of them were cheating, right?) and yet they made, and kept, so many videos of it? It all makes no sense at all.


She didn't make them. The OM did with his phone and sent snippets to her. She didn't keep them. She deleted them but I found the backup. I can't tell you why he did it. Why do people sext when they cheat? 



becareful2 said:


> Isn't that VISA fraud?


Sorry I wasn't clear on this. Her family immigrated here when she was college age. She is a citizen.


----------



## Scooter123

aine said:


> Scooter, looks like you really tried hard to get your marriage back on track, but getting rid of the mind movies, is very difficult and may never go away. You have to tell her you have all the actual evidence of what she did with OM and right now you see her as damaged goods. She has to step up to the plate and get you to a place where you want to a mutually satisfying sex life with her. If not then you really have to consider divorce or an open marriage.


You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Scooter123 said:


> First time I heard the term "cuckold". Had to google it. I admit many of the characteristics are there, but cuckold seems to be consensual, as in the husband knowing the wife is sleeping with others and getting some sexual high from being demeaned by her and her lovers.


"Cuckold" is just a term for a male whose supposed monogamous mate is cheating, whether he knows it or not. In biology, it's used to denote a male who is raising another male's offspring without knowing it. There is such a thing as a "cuckold fetish," where a man derives enjoyment from knowing or witnessing his wife having sex with another man. This kind of relationship is consensual, as you've noted, and obviously not something you're into. 

The non-consensual variety happens in humans as well as animals. A woman identifies a man that she'd like to have children with. Often this man is a high-testosterone "bad boy" who has no interest in a children or a long-term monogamous relationship. But this man possesses characteristics that the woman believes will produce strong, robust, "alpha" type children. But since the bad boy is not going to stick around, she's inclined, either consciously or unconsciously, to fool a "good guy" into believing that the children are his. This is the sucker who sticks around to provide for the bad boy's offspring, believing them to be his own. There are hundreds of stories in here where that's happened. 

I would argue that your wife, in choosing to use no protection, was unconsciously trying to get pregnant to ultimately make you a cuckold for the children she'd have with her lover. Incidentally, I think this is a dilemma that a lot of women face. When you ask a woman what kind of man she's looking for, you'll inevitably hear the cliches about a nice, nurturing guy with a good sense of humor who can relate to her emotionally. But I think below the surface, there is a desire that women have is for someone who's high-status, strong, and a bit mean. It's hard to find these conflicting sets of qualities in one man. Hence the cuckold solution. 

Good luck in resolving this. Many men in here think that they can swallow the poison they've been force-fed and learn to live with it. It's only 10-20 years later that they discover that they never got over their wife's affair and never well. Whatever decision you make, make sure it's one that doesn't waste 20 years of your life.


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## Satya

@Scooter123, if you had to rate your self-respect from 0-10, what would it be? 

If you had to take a guess at what any of us would score you, what do you think our results would be, after reading your opening post?

IMO you should have left her after the first lie. You should have told her she had only one chance to save the marriage by coming clean and talking the truth, and if she lies you'll know it. One chance. But she trickle truthed because she didn't fear the loss of anything. And you gave her many subsequent chances....

Now you say she is remorseful ...but remorse won't magically make her attracted to you. She's already shown she is not with her actions.

Personally, my self-respect would not tolerate any of this. Not the pity sex, not the betrayal, not the disturbing thoughts of my SO exchanging bodily fluids and emotional ecstacy with someone who is not me. 

Life's too short to stay with someone who doesn't love you. JMO.


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## eric1

You are the victim of abuse I've behavior. You don't just walk away from that unscathed.

I will make the observation that you sound very unhappy in your marriage


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## manwithnoname

Scooter123 said:


> She is more Chinese-American. She came here from Hong Kong for college and been here since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, I did. I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the OM about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible. I found out where the OM lives and fedex a flashdrive of all the evidence to his wife and left my phone number. She never contacted me and I have no contact with the OM. I'm pretty sure my WW cut off contact with him.
> 
> My WW knows I have seen the videos and texts and everything else.
> 
> I have suspicion that some of her co-workers might have known. She had pics of her and OM together from nights out during the conferences and they were close. He had his hand on the top of her butt in some group pics, and in one group dinner photo, I could see his hand on the inside of her thigh. It's so ballsy and I couldn't believe no one noticed. I did talk to my best friend and he said it's something he wouldn't have noticed though. The dinner pic requires zooming in to see it, so it could be just me. But doesn't really matter, does it?
> 
> 
> 
> *It's tough to say, remorse or regret.* I honestly don't know. I've told my WW, and she basically said it's a momentary lapse in judgment. Yeah, for 2 years?! This brings me to the MC. So in one of the early sessions, I could ask all the questions I wanted to my WW re the PA and she had to answer honestly. Other than that, we didn't get too deep into the sex stuff. Our MC said she's not a sex therapist and we might need that, but that's not covered by our insurance. What she did was to give us exercises/homework to slowly get back the intimacy. We were trying but we didn't have intercourse while in therapy, and the MC said it may take a while for that to happen. We worked mostly on communication, managing emotions, and rebuilding trust with the MC and how to handle the kids. I did air my feelings, and WW's response was that she didn't feel she got attention from me and she felt attractive and the attention when with OM.
> 
> Quite a few posters mentioned divorce, and believe me I've thought about it a million times. It always comes down to the kids. They are 9 and 7. One thing I'm proud of is that despite all the turmoil, I have kept it away from the kids and provided them stability, even if it might be built on a pack of lies. And like I said before, WW has done the same. This seems to be the one area that we still do well, for what it's worth.


Not tough at all. No remorse at all. Trickle truth = no remorse (IMO)


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## manwithnoname

Scooter123 said:


> I wished I found TAM two years ago when I discovered my wife's affair, but better late than never. We've been through counseling and are trying to reconcile, but I'm having lingering issues.
> 
> A bit of background. My wife and I are both in our early 40's and going on our 11th year of marriage. She had an affair with a work colleague four years ago, for two plus years. The OM was from out of town, but they got together whenever their company had their bi-annual week-long conferences and also when he came into town about once every few months for regional meetings. There were signs early on but I didn't listen to my gut. Late-night texts? checked. Taking her cellphone to the bathroom or whenever she left the room? checked. Getting brazilian waxes way more often? checked (she used to do it only once a year before our summer vacation). Buying sexy underwear? checked. She had an excuse for every one of them, and at the time, I just wasn't connecting the dots.
> 
> Anyways, I found out two years ago when she left her work laptop logged in at home. I found the backup texts and emails. They're not only sextings but he sent her video clips of when they had sex with explicit messages. I couldn't bring myself to open the video files for over a week, curious while afraid to find out what's in them. I literally did not sleep during that time. I so wanted to delete them but my logical side told me to get all the evidence before I confronted her. I did eventually watch them and a couple of things stuck with me even to this day. First, she had unprotected sex the whole time. They might've used condoms early on. I don't know. But what I do know is that in the clips she told him to ejaculate inside her. That really really made me angry. So we weren't exactly having a lot of sex during this time, but she still put my health at risk. The lies! It's like pulling teeth. When I confronted her (without telling her I'd seen the messages), she denied it at first. Pressed further, she said they just kissed. Then she said she only gave him oral sex, as if that made it better. She finally admitted to intercourse but lied to my face and said she used condoms. Even now I still haven't gotten a satisfactory explanation for this. Second is she did all the things with him that she wouldn't do with me like anal sex and swallowing. She had always said no to anal sex with me and even in conversations with friends, whenever it came up, she would tell everyone that anal sex is not for her and nothing is going up her butt. What total bs. I don't know why but I feel really hurt by this.
> 
> So now we finished almost a year and half of MC. We had to stop because insurance ran out. The positive is that she seems willing and trying. Phones, social media, emails, etc are all open book. We both did full panel std test and all was fine. She quit her job and found work at different company. She is really good with the kids (and to be fair, she never neglected them). But I can't get over the sex. We tried to have sex but I would think about why she did all the sex things wtih the OM but not with me and lose interest. Even if I was able, it was angry sex. I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't want to kiss. I just feel dirty and want to take a shower and go to sleep.
> 
> The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. *How do I forget???? What can I do?*


Other than Alzheimer's, not likely you'll ever forget. 

What you can do is divorce her.


----------



## VladDracul

aine said:


> Don,t want to thread-jack but I think these kind of generalizations are not helpful. Not all wives are like this. I have many friends and myself whose H's are ****heads and bastards, having cheated, never around, etc yet these wives are faithful, take care of their families and hold things together.
> 
> And there are also many men who do exactly the same thing, get a bit on the side and go home to their wives and families after dipping their sticks elsewhere , so cut it out with the generalizations please!


Here's the thing Aine. I never wish to imply all wives, husbands, dogs, cats behave in the same manner. Nevertheless, in my anecdotal experience, people tend to respond to a similar set of conditions is a consistent manner. Based on my history from personal conversation with many married women, I'll submit with 95% certainty that women who cheat have lost respect and romantic interest in their husbands. So if I'm making a generalization, which is all you can do from the information provided, its that the vast majority of women that cheat, have little or no respect or romantic interest in their mate. Its a generalization that has proved reliable, I believe to be factual, and I'll keep making it. However, with proper elaboration from a decent size sample of women that they cheat despite a high level of respect and romantic interest, I'll likely change my mind and start telling the guys, "hey, just because she has boyfriends doesn't mean she has little or no respect and romantic love for you."
At any rate, everybody cheats for a reason, be it a ONS or a 10 year multi-partner affair. 
I don't know if you're male or female, and assuming you're female and heterosexual but I'll proffer that yours, and the other wives' cheating husbands have little respect and low romantic love for ya'll. Yah, I know they claim to have when they come home reeking of another woman.


----------



## thedope

Scooter123 said:


> aine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scooter, looks like you really tried hard to get your marriage back on track, but getting rid of the mind movies, is very difficult and may never go away. You have to tell her you have all the actual evidence of what she did with OM and right now you see her as damaged goods. She has to step up to the plate and get you to a place where you want to a mutually satisfying sex life with her. If not then you really have to consider divorce or an open marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.
Click to expand...

It's a poor idea. I mean you are this upset because one guy was porking your wife. Now your going to feel better by letting multiple guys do it. Seems pretty insane. It's a dumb idea and no offense but your friend is an idiot for suggesting it to you.


----------



## Dannip

thedope said:


> It's a poor idea. I mean you are this upset because one guy was porking your wife. Now your going to feel better by letting multiple guys do it. Seems pretty insane. It's a dumb idea and no offense but your friend is an idiot for suggesting it to you.


Yep. I think this "friend" is interested in a piece himself. Consider unfriending him. Keep an eye on him.


----------



## oldshirt

Scooter123 said:


> You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.


My wife and I were active swingers for about 10 years so I do know quite a bit about consensual nonmonogamy as a lifestyle choice. 

Here's the thing - you were already in an open relationship......you just weren't aware of it at the time. How did it work out for you????

If you were to open your marriage and allow her to take lovers, you would be right back to where she was getting all dolled up in new lingerie and bikini waxing and you watch head out on the town while you babysit and then launder her semen stained underwear the next day. 

And as you mentioned above, during her affair your sexlife was nonexistent. If you open your marriage, you would be right back to being celibate for she would be going out with men that she is sexually attracted to. 

Why on God's Green Earth would you even consider that???????

What you need to be exploring is why you are so desperate to remain with someone who has such profound disrespect for you and has treated you so horribly. 

You have mentioned that you have been to MC, but have you been in any kind of individual therapy for yourself? If you were to get into individual therapy that was for you, that therapist may be able to help you discover why you are allowing yourself to be so badly mistreated and exploited and you may be able to get your spine and balls back enough to stand up for yourself and take your life back.


----------



## MJJEAN

oldshirt said:


> And as you mentioned above, during her affair your sexlife was nonexistent. If you open your marriage, you would be right back to being celibate for she would be going out with men that she is sexually attracted to.


In theory, if he had an open marriage, he'd also be free to seek sex and companionship elsewhere. Which is why I think the friend suggested it in the first place.


----------



## oldshirt

Open marriage can work for men who are alpha males and are the biggest stud in town. 

For any normal guy, it is recipe for disaster. Unless some guy is insanely good looking or a pro athlete, rock star or movie star or something, even an unattractive woman is going to have a million times more sexual opportunity than he would. 

There are some extreme double standards in the world and one of them is the opportunity for side poon for married people. 

Men will line up down the street and around the corner to hook up with a married woman with a hall pass. 

Women on the other hand won't touch a married man with her permission to play on the side with a ten foot pole. (a guy will have an easier time actually cheating behind his wife's back than to get play partners with a hall pass)

Out of all of those opportunities that a woman will have for FWBs, at least one of them will trip her trigger and she will sexually inprint on him and will lose all respect and attraction for her husband and all of her sexual energies and attentions will go to the OM and her husband will be relegated to the role of live-in babysitter and bill payer. 

It's a terrible idea. 

As I said in my post above, what you need to be looking into is why you are so desperate to stay with her and so willing to be treated like this. .....and even why you are so desperate to stay that you are consider allowing her to take lovers on the side with your permission. 

You have been so beat down and destroyed that you aren't even thinking straight. Even a 7th grade boy with his first puppy love at the skating rink would not consider letting his little honey skate with others so that he doesn't lose her. 

Why are you as a grown man and father even allowing these ideas to run through your head??????


----------



## oldshirt

MJJEAN said:


> In theory, if he had an open marriage, he'd also be free to seek sex and companionship elsewhere. Which is why I think the friend suggested it in the first place.


He wouldn't actually do that though. 

I think we can all agree that Scooter is a Beta through and through. The chances of him actually seeking comfort and sexuality with another is basically quadzillion to one. 

I generally do not like to the use the "alpha/beta" jargon but in this particular instance you kinda have to. 

Scooter is a natural beta and is basically devoting his life to supporting and taking care of his wife and children and keeping his family unit under one roof despite the terrible treatment he is receiving and despite the profound betrayal and disrespect he has received. 

He would simply not be able to bring himself to pursue another woman's affections while being married to his wife. He would not do anything that might risk her being upset or angered or give her further grounds to detach more from him. It's not in his basic programming. 

So while his friend may have suggested this in hopes he would find someone else and hit it off with that person and kick his wife to the curb..... it's just not a realistic scenario that would have any benefit for Scooter. It's not in his DNA to actually work up another woman while still under the same roof and still legally married to his wife.


----------



## oldshirt

Dannip said:


> Yep. I think this "friend" is interested in a piece himself. Consider unfriending him. Keep an eye on him.


And this is a possibility as well.


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## CantBelieveThis

Ouch, watching the movies of them being intimate, that's tough and why hell would they take videos anyways, ugh, ***n sickening.
If it were me the only way would be long term separation or D and maybe restart things later on if she has shown her remorse and stay away from other men while u get to bang other women....but that's just what I would do, it's your call and your decision on anything you do....good luck man , this is terrible

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scooter123 said:


> She is more Chinese-American. She came here from Hong Kong for college and been here since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, I did. I was very pissed at some of the things that were said between her and the OM about me. The words hurt more than from the actual sex, if that's even possible. I found out where the OM lives and fedex a flashdrive of all the evidence to his wife and left my phone number. She never contacted me and I have no contact with the OM. I'm pretty sure my WW cut off contact with him.
> 
> My WW knows I have seen the videos and texts and everything else.
> 
> I have suspicion that some of her co-workers might have known. She had pics of her and OM together from nights out during the conferences and they were close. He had his hand on the top of her butt in some group pics, and in one group dinner photo, I could see his hand on the inside of her thigh. It's so ballsy and I couldn't believe no one noticed. I did talk to my best friend and he said it's something he wouldn't have noticed though. The dinner pic requires zooming in to see it, so it could be just me. But doesn't really matter, does it?
> 
> 
> 
> It's tough to say, remorse or regret. I honestly don't know. I've told my WW, and she basically said it's a momentary lapse in judgment. Yeah, for 2 years?! This brings me to the MC. So in one of the early sessions, I could ask all the questions I wanted to my WW re the PA and she had to answer honestly. Other than that, we didn't get too deep into the sex stuff. Our MC said she's not a sex therapist and we might need that, but that's not covered by our insurance. What she did was to give us exercises/homework to slowly get back the intimacy. We were trying but we didn't have intercourse while in therapy, and the MC said it may take a while for that to happen. We worked mostly on communication, managing emotions, and rebuilding trust with the MC and how to handle the kids. I did air my feelings, and WW's response was that she didn't feel she got attention from me and she felt attractive and the attention when with OM.
> 
> Quite a few posters mentioned divorce, and believe me I've thought about it a million times. It always comes down to the kids. They are 9 and 7. One thing I'm proud of is that despite all the turmoil, I have kept it away from the kids and provided them stability, even if it might be built on a pack of lies. And like I said before, WW has done the same. This seems to be the one area that we still do well, for what it's worth.


You are lying to your kids. If you really believe they have no idea you are wrong. They may not know the exact details but they always know when something is up. They are just learning to lie with you. Learning how to rug sweep.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Scooter123 said:


> You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.


Get rid of your close friend. HE is getting in line to sleep with your wife. What a pal!


----------



## Graywolf2

oldshirt said:


> Open marriage can work for men who are alpha males and are the biggest stud in town.
> 
> For any normal guy, it is recipe for disaster. Unless some guy is insanely good looking or a pro athlete, rock star or movie star or something, even an unattractive woman is going to have a million times more sexual opportunity than he would.
> 
> There are some extreme double standards in the world and one of them is the opportunity for side poon for married people.
> 
> Men will line up down the street and around the corner to hook up with a married woman with a hall pass.


This is so true. I read a post by a woman who felt bad for her husband. He talked her into an open marriage and they both signed up on a website. 
He was all excited waiting by the computer and she got response after response. 

Which group do you thinks pays for sex (homosexual or heterosexual) more often, men or woman? It’s called testosterone.


----------



## aine

Scooter123 said:


> You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.


I don't personally know of anyone, but it might help you to get past the mind movies and re-engage. I wouldn't be for it myself personally, I would divorce as it was a long affair. But if you want to keep the marriage for whatever reasons then maybe, it would allow you to become unstuck as it were. I wonder how your wife would react to such a suggestion?


----------



## oldshirt

aine said:


> . I wonder how your wife would react to such a suggestion?


That is no mystery, I can tell you exactly how she would react. 

She would take that as he is so desperate to keep her in the house and so afraid of being on his own that he would be willing to watch her get all dressed and polished up for other men to bang and he would be waiting for her to come home so she would pat him on the head and hand him her semen stained underwear to wash. 

She would seem him as so weak and pathetic and so afraid of being on his own that there was no way she could love, respect or desire him.

She would also see him as valuing her sexuality so little and valuing her desire for him so little, that he would let other men use her for their own gratification as long as it meant that she remained in the house. 

She would then know that the reason he is so desperate for her to remain in the house is not because he loves and cherishes and values her as his wife and soul-mate,,,, but rather because he is so insecure and weak as a man that he cannot live on his own or take care of his children on his own, but needs her in the house to raise the children and take care of the household chores and to give him someone to talk to. 

It would tell her that his life was so empty and void that he would truly do "anything" to keep her from leaving, even if that meant that she got all her sexual needs met elsewhere and he got none. 

There for she would react by losing virtually all respect and desire for him as a man and husband and would either continue to use him as a live-in babysitter and roommate to share the household chores and expenses. 

Or she would see the futility in ever having an intimate marriage and would get her affairs in order (no pun intended) and leave for good. 

That is how she would react to his suggestion of an open marriage.


----------



## VladDracul

oldshirt said:


> Women on the other hand won't touch a married man with her permission to play on the side with a ten foot pole. (a guy will have an easier time actually cheating behind his wife's back than to get play partners with a hall pass)
> 
> Out of all of those opportunities that a woman will have for FWBs, at least one of them will trip her trigger and she will sexually inprint on him and will lose all respect and attraction for her husband and all of her sexual energies and attentions will go to the OM and her husband will be relegated to the role of live-in babysitter and bill payer.
> 
> It's a terrible idea.


Right, old Scooter ain't getting any now. He'd be getting less in an open marriage. As far as her losing respect and attraction for her husband as a result, its a little late for that. My advice is rather than open marriage, and jumping through hoops just to keep her around, just ditch her and find a loyal and kind woman who actually love you and feels you're just what she's been looking for. This, "I love her so that makes her high maintenance and the pain she causes worth it" is highly over rated and is the fools road to misery.


----------



## GusPolinski

@Scooter123, have you met your WW's _current_ boyfriend yet?


----------



## VFW

I applaud your desire to exhaust all avenues of action before throwing in the towel. Part of that is seeing what others have done here in similar situations. The problem is we all react different to this situation, some easily go back to sex while others never get things back on track. The thing is how do you react to her actions? The sex thing may be too big right now, how about other forms of affection? The bottom line is there are things she can do to reassure her commitment, but she can't undo what has been done. I would draw a line in the sand and say if we can't get going again by this date, then it is time to move on with life. There are many women that would love to have a faithful committed man to call her own.


----------



## m00nman

I think it all comes down to this: does she love you? I think you know the answer. As for the kids, if you had the choice would you want to grow up in a home like this?


----------



## skerzoid

Scooter

Ten million years of evolution have made the dynamics of sexual attraction what they were. A hundred years of political correctness have screwed up the dynamic. Women are drawn to confidence, strength, decisiveness, and courage. Be confident. Be strong. Be decisive. Be courageous. Did you ever read H. G. Wells "The Time Machine"? Remember the Eloi? Thats what modern culture has created. Morlocks and Eloi. Don't be either. Be the heroic protagonist. Either take her back or get on your time machine and get the flock out of here!


----------



## ABHale

Scooter123 said:


> I wished I found TAM two years ago when I discovered my wife's affair, but better late than never. We've been through counseling and are trying to reconcile, but I'm having lingering issues.
> 
> A bit of background. My wife and I are both in our early 40's and going on our 11th year of marriage. She had an affair with a work colleague four years ago, for two plus years. The OM was from out of town, but they got together whenever their company had their bi-annual week-long conferences and also when he came into town about once every few months for regional meetings. There were signs early on but I didn't listen to my gut. Late-night texts? checked. Taking her cellphone to the bathroom or whenever she left the room? checked. Getting brazilian waxes way more often? checked (she used to do it only once a year before our summer vacation). Buying sexy underwear? checked. She had an excuse for every one of them, and at the time, I just wasn't connecting the dots.
> 
> Anyways, I found out two years ago when she left her work laptop logged in at home. I found the backup texts and emails. They're not only sextings but he sent her video clips of when they had sex with explicit messages. I couldn't bring myself to open the video files for over a week, curious while afraid to find out what's in them. I literally did not sleep during that time. I so wanted to delete them but my logical side told me to get all the evidence before I confronted her. I did eventually watch them and a couple of things stuck with me even to this day. First, she had unprotected sex the whole time. They might've used condoms early on. I don't know. But what I do know is that in the clips she told him to ejaculate inside her. That really really made me angry. So we weren't exactly having a lot of sex during this time, but she still put my health at risk. The lies! It's like pulling teeth. When I confronted her (without telling her I'd seen the messages), she denied it at first. Pressed further, she said they just kissed. Then she said she only gave him oral sex, as if that made it better. She finally admitted to intercourse but lied to my face and said she used condoms. Even now I still haven't gotten a satisfactory explanation for this. Second is she did all the things with him that she wouldn't do with me like anal sex and swallowing. She had always said no to anal sex with me and even in conversations with friends, whenever it came up, she would tell everyone that anal sex is not for her and nothing is going up her butt. What total bs. I don't know why but I feel really hurt by this.
> 
> So now we finished almost a year and half of MC. We had to stop because insurance ran out. The positive is that she seems willing and trying. Phones, social media, emails, etc are all open book. We both did full panel std test and all was fine. She quit her job and found work at different company. She is really good with the kids (and to be fair, she never neglected them). But I can't get over the sex. We tried to have sex but I would think about why she did all the sex things wtih the OM but not with me and lose interest. Even if I was able, it was angry sex. I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't want to kiss. I just feel dirty and want to take a shower and go to sleep.
> 
> The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. How do I forget???? What can I do?


Why are you still with this blank..... 

You can't get past this because she took your manhood and shhht all over it. 

You won't get past this because of the fact that she stopped having sex with you to do the things she wanted to do with the OM and not you. How could a guy get past something like this. 

Waste two more years and divorce then if you want or start finding someone that actually cares and wants to be with you. 

File and move on with your life.


----------



## jorgegene

There are worse things than celibacy in this life, and one of them is pursuing, or even thinking about
being intimate with someone who has dissed you so cravenly as your wife has.


----------



## BobSimmons

Sigh

Beta males watch videos of their wives getting slammed and can't understand why they can't function.


----------



## TaDor

Open marriages are tricky, there is a spectrum of different ways. Hey, maybe you can ask for a threesome for her actions? So only you can date other women? Doubt it.

In this situation, things seem bad - going open marriage will make things go worse. Eventually, leading to divorce. And yes, it will be easier for her to find a man to have sex with her than it is for you to find a woman.


----------



## VladDracul

I don't understand all the advise for anyone to consider open marriage, or other forms of hoop jumping just to stay married to someone who is disloyal and needs/craves something you can't provided. The question is really, really simple. Do you want to stay with someone you find does not commit to you, that is not satisfied with you and monogamous married, and willing to lower your standards and jump through hoops, or do you want freedom from that style relationship? The mind movies, frustration, suspicion, lower self-esteem, sleepless nights, knowing you're plan B or lower, is a product or your decision and there is no magik pill, words from a MC, or advice from a forum that will change that. You continued suffering is at your own hand. (in situation where the story is true)


----------



## ABHale

Hey honey let's open our troubled marriage and see how that works! 

Opening the marriage was a joke, right?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Scooter123 said:


> I have my reasons for trying to save it.


Please, enlighten us.

1) Because of the kids - Would you tell your son/daughter to stick around while their spouse was sleeping around and ready to bring home STDs for them?

2) Financial reasons - How much money does it cost to THROW AWAY your self respect and make you eat a s**t sandwich with a s**t eating grin on your face?

3) Fear - Of what? Being alone? Not finding anyone else? The next girl won't be "as attractive". Men with OPTIONS don't have fear. Hit the gym and diet to a normal bmi.

4) You love her - The worst reason of all. She clearly loves getting banged by men MORE than she loves you. You need something to love? Get a dog. At least they are loyal.

There is no valid reason you can provide to "R" with this vile disgusting woman. She cheated on you PRECISELY because she figured even if she got caught, you'd be too much of a CHUMP to walk away. You prove her right every day by staying. She has NO RESPECT for you and frankly never will. I realize you are far too cowardly and beta to ever man up and dump her but if you are going to be her chump, at least STOP being her doormat. Do WHATEVER the hell you want (in EVERY aspect of your life if you catch my drift) and if she doesn't like it tell her to not let the door hit her ass on the way out.


----------



## GusPolinski

@Scooter123, you're going to find that your "reasons" for trying to save your marriage aren't going to trump your WW's "reasons" for disrespecting it.

Hopefully the journey won't leave you completely broken.


----------



## Deperatedwoman

hylton7 said:


> she has no respect for you divorce her.


sad but true


----------



## TAM2013

oldshirt said:


> Open marriage can work for men who are alpha males and are the biggest stud in town.
> 
> For any normal guy, it is recipe for disaster. Unless some guy is insanely good looking or a pro athlete, rock star or movie star or something, even an unattractive woman is going to have a million times more sexual opportunity than he would.
> 
> There are some extreme double standards in the world and one of them is the opportunity for side poon for married people.
> 
> Men will line up down the street and around the corner to hook up with a married woman with a hall pass.
> 
> Women on the other hand won't touch a married man with her permission to play on the side with a ten foot pole. (a guy will have an easier time actually cheating behind his wife's back than to get play partners with a hall pass)
> 
> Out of all of those opportunities that a woman will have for FWBs, at least one of them will trip her trigger and she will sexually inprint on him and will lose all respect and attraction for her husband and all of her sexual energies and attentions will go to the OM and her husband will be relegated to the role of live-in babysitter and bill payer.
> 
> It's a terrible idea.
> 
> As I said in my post above, what you need to be looking into is why you are so desperate to stay with her and so willing to be treated like this. .....and even why you are so desperate to stay that you are consider allowing her to take lovers on the side with your permission.
> 
> You have been so beat down and destroyed that you aren't even thinking straight. Even a 7th grade boy with his first puppy love at the skating rink would not consider letting his little honey skate with others so that he doesn't lose her.
> 
> Why are you as a grown man and father even allowing these ideas to run through your head??????


Because your average western man has become so feminized and emasculated, he feels it's all he's worth. And if he won't accept, he's jealous and controlling. Not a real man at all. And hey, there's a billion other 'real men' (chumps) who'll take his place.

Welcome to the board, oldshirt. BANG ON ABOVE. You been banned yet?

Don't be that chump, OP. GTFO.


----------



## TaDor

I don't support the OP trying the open marriage route.

Too many broken things.


----------



## sokillme

Scooter123 said:


> I really appreciate the different perspectives. I get that she and I will not have wild and crazy sex like her and the OM and that I am not the guy that she'll lust after. I talked to her as much and she said she doesn't need it and that it was a passing phase. Sure, she could be lying, but leaving that out for the moment. I'm trying to get a bit of a sexual marriage going. We are both trying to get us back on the sexual bandwagon, but the mind movies, actual in my case, get in the way. So let me ask this: I get that it's unsalvagable for many, but has anyone conquered their mind movies of their WS and actually rediscovered a sexual marriage, in whatever form?


This is one of the saddest posts I have ever read, at least it would be how I felt if I wrote it. Why do you settle so? You Do realize just because this women doesn't have this for you doesn't mean another women might.


----------



## sokillme

eric1 said:


> You are the victim of abuse I've behavior. You don't just walk away from that unscathed.
> 
> I will make the observation that you sound very unhappy in your marriage


I would like to echo this, it also seems you are traumatized and have lost your confidence. I think you should go get IC so you can find the strength to overcome your abuser.


----------



## JustTheFacts

The only thing that I can guarantee you about your wife is that whenever an opportunity to have sex with another man comes up, she will do it. Now she knows how to hide it better and you will never find out. She also knows that on the outside chance that you do find out, she will get away with it with no lasting consequences. This is your future. Sorry


----------



## inging

Your wife has already left you. She offering you the bare minimum version of herself. 

Open marriages can only work in very very secure marriages. You are just allowing her to test drive a few new guys before she jumps

I heard all the same excuses that you have heard. It is all rubbish. Dude. She is just not that into you. She is being emotionally faithful to her guy ,who she gives. e v e r y t h i n g.

Don't accept it.

Remorse V Regret

You will know remorse when you see it. If you are in any doubt then you seeing regret and lies and not remorse.

@GusPolinski flagged something a page back.. "Who is her current boyfriend?" 
I am afraid that Gus has super-spider senses when it comes to this. Do not ignore. 
DIG

I agree.. Another guy is still her primary relationship. 

Staying like this will break you eventually so blow it up and see what happens


----------



## bikermehound

What is TAM and how do I join

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------



## stevehowefan

bikermehound said:


> What is TAM and how do I join
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


Good news. You already have joined.


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## thedope

Scooter sounds like a ****


----------



## TAMAT

*Scooter sounds like a **** *

I think very few men want to be a ****, he's just a guy who's life went to hell while he didn't even know it. His life became a natural disaster a tsunami where the waves never stop.

He's trying to hold up his life for his children to keep their world from collapsing on them. 

I think, same as for myself and perhaps many of us, he would have acted quite differently had he known how affairs operate and might have put his marriage in a position for recovery.

Tamat


----------



## Diana7

Scooter123 said:


> I wished I found TAM two years ago when I discovered my wife's affair, but better late than never. We've been through counseling and are trying to reconcile, but I'm having lingering issues.
> 
> A bit of background. My wife and I are both in our early 40's and going on our 11th year of marriage. She had an affair with a work colleague four years ago, for two plus years. The OM was from out of town, but they got together whenever their company had their bi-annual week-long conferences and also when he came into town about once every few months for regional meetings. There were signs early on but I didn't listen to my gut. Late-night texts? checked. Taking her cellphone to the bathroom or whenever she left the room? checked. Getting brazilian waxes way more often? checked (she used to do it only once a year before our summer vacation). Buying sexy underwear? checked. She had an excuse for every one of them, and at the time, I just wasn't connecting the dots.
> 
> Anyways, I found out two years ago when she left her work laptop logged in at home. I found the backup texts and emails. They're not only sextings but he sent her video clips of when they had sex with explicit messages. I couldn't bring myself to open the video files for over a week, curious while afraid to find out what's in them. I literally did not sleep during that time. I so wanted to delete them but my logical side told me to get all the evidence before I confronted her. I did eventually watch them and a couple of things stuck with me even to this day. First, she had unprotected sex the whole time. They might've used condoms early on. I don't know. But what I do know is that in the clips she told him to ejaculate inside her. That really really made me angry. So we weren't exactly having a lot of sex during this time, but she still put my health at risk. The lies! It's like pulling teeth. When I confronted her (without telling her I'd seen the messages), she denied it at first. Pressed further, she said they just kissed. Then she said she only gave him oral sex, as if that made it better. She finally admitted to intercourse but lied to my face and said she used condoms. Even now I still haven't gotten a satisfactory explanation for this. Second is she did all the things with him that she wouldn't do with me like anal sex and swallowing. She had always said no to anal sex with me and even in conversations with friends, whenever it came up, she would tell everyone that anal sex is not for her and nothing is going up her butt. What total bs. I don't know why but I feel really hurt by this.
> 
> So now we finished almost a year and half of MC. We had to stop because insurance ran out. The positive is that she seems willing and trying. Phones, social media, emails, etc are all open book. We both did full panel std test and all was fine. She quit her job and found work at different company. She is really good with the kids (and to be fair, she never neglected them). But I can't get over the sex. We tried to have sex but I would think about why she did all the sex things wtih the OM but not with me and lose interest. Even if I was able, it was angry sex. I don't want to cuddle afterwards, I don't want to kiss. I just feel dirty and want to take a shower and go to sleep.
> 
> The problem now seems to lie with me. I can't get the explicit images of them out of my head, the stupid crap they said to each other (when she never talk dirty with me), why everything is 'yes' with him and 'no' with me, and for some god forsaken reason, they only pop into my head when we try to get intimate. I'm afraid it's going to be like a vicious cycle because I'm not satisfying her sexually and she will once again try to find it elsewhere. How do I forget???? What can I do?


You can't make yourself forget, and this is why so many cheated on spouses can't remain with the cheater. That and the trust has gone.


----------



## Diana7

VladDracul said:


> I don't understand all the advise for anyone to consider open marriage, or other forms of hoop jumping just to stay married to someone who is disloyal and needs/craves something you can't provided. The question is really, really simple. Do you want to stay with someone you find does not commit to you, that is not satisfied with you and monogamous married, and willing to lower your standards and jump through hoops, or do you want freedom from that style relationship? The mind movies, frustration, suspicion, lower self-esteem, sleepless nights, knowing you're plan B or lower, is a product or your decision and there is no magik pill, words from a MC, or advice from a forum that will change that. You continued suffering is at your own hand. (in situation where the story is true)


 I agree, an open marriage is no marriage.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

I am reading this at work and scanning so I apologize if this has been asked and answered..

Did you expose to anyone other than the OM's wife? Are you certain she saw the evidence?

Your wife hasn't really suffered any consequences. She wasn't lustful for you before, and there is no reason for her to be now. 

I'm sorry that you had to see all that for yourself, I can't imagine. The thought of it in my head once I found out about my own wife was enough for me..


----------



## Taxman

Scooter
If you are unwilling to divorce, then you will have to get some sex therapy. Tell your wife that you now consider your marriage open. You will now be sleeping with a number of women, tell your wife that she has already taken up all of her chances, so she cannot fu(k anyone new until you say so. Go out and date while wifey sits at home. In other words betray her as badly as she betrayed you. This is the only way you will drown out those mind movies. By the way, have yourself recorded, preferably having anal sex with several women.


----------



## Diana7

Taxman said:


> Scooter
> If you are unwilling to divorce, then you will have to get some sex therapy. Tell your wife that you now consider your marriage open. You will now be sleeping with a number of women, tell your wife that she has already taken up all of her chances, so she cannot fu(k anyone new until you say so. Go out and date while wifey sits at home. In other words betray her as badly as she betrayed you. This is the only way you will drown out those mind movies. By the way, have yourself recorded, preferably having anal sex with several women.


Thats terrible advice. :frown2:


----------



## theDrifter

I guess OP is gone but others might read this thread so posting in it is not a waste of time. 

For a BH, the mind-movies are intrusive, disgusting, and soul-crushing. I believe that part of the reason your mind plays these horrible images is that they are an expression of the respect you had for your wife. Lot's of BH's are embarrassed of their wife's disgusting behavior and embarrassed for her for being such a s!ut. They never imagined she could do these things with another man and their image of her is destroyed. For many BH's - their wife is forever tainted. To reconcile means settling for a cheater who happily gave herself to another man. The thought of that rubs a man in the face on a daily basis. But when you won't consider divorce, you trap yourself into this prison of your own making. You will always feel that you didn't have a choice - you had to stay for the kids...for the family. I don't think it's possible to heal when a man puts himself into this position. You have to honestly consider the choice to reject her and the marriage she destroyed - to divorce and start over. If you consciously choose to stay after all things considered then you are going to have to learn to deal with triggers and mind-movies. It's painful but all BH's go through it until they begin to heal or realize they must end the marriage.


----------



## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> I agree, an open marriage is no marriage.


If you are to afraid to divorce but the marriage is open anyway it might as well be equitable. Granted I will never know why someone wants to stay in a marriage like that.


----------



## smi11ie

This whole affair was about humiliating you. For both of them. Once she has debased you so much in her mind, it's hard to see how she is going to convince you otherwise. She sounds really selfish. I don't know how you can be bothered. If she didn't bend over backwards I would be outta there.

I think there is way back if you can accommodate some cuckold fantasy or something but most guys wouldn't do that.

You are going to have to decide if you want a brand new relationship with your brand new wife. Do you think you have the mental agility to laugh all her sh*t off and move on?


----------



## Hoosier

Dude, I feel sorry for you, I really do. For a number of years Weightlifter was helping people analyze their VAR recordings, he always advises that you have someone listen to it first, as you cant unhear it. As I can understand how hearing your wife and another man can damage a person, cant imagine the pain of actually seeing this. For this pain, I feel so sorry for you. 
But guess what. You dont get a pass on being a man. You have had time to analyze, probably done nothing but analyze, analyze time is over. Time to put your big boy panties on and get on with your life. It sucks, it hurts, it is unbearable.... I get it, been there..... but no pass, on being a man.
If I were you, I would remove myself, or herself, from my presence. You cant think, get your head on right, with her around and she has done nothing to earn her spot at your table. Quit being a doormat, you are better than this.


----------



## wmn1

sokillme said:


> Nothing is worse then being married and wishing YOU had been your spouses affair partner because THEY were the ones who got their best. I can think of nothing more sad then that. Life is too short.


One of the best quotes I have seen here. So true.

Scooter is allowing himself to be cuckolded. Truly sad


----------



## Clay2013

wmn1 said:


> One of the best quotes I have seen here. So true.
> 
> Scooter is allowing himself to be cuckolded. Truly sad


She would no longer be that special person to have to have that great of a connection with. Sex would just be that. I wouldn't want that special connection with her anymore. I doubt seriously this will last. In time it will eat away at him and then when that day comes he will realize it was a deal breaker for him. 

C


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## LosingHim

I’m a wayward, my husband is a wayward. I had a drunken ONS 4 years ago, he then had an ‘RA’ for roughly a year and a half. I put RA in “ because it’s questionable that he had EA’s before my ONS, so it depends who you talk to whether he had the RA or I had the RA. I know roughly the length of time his lasted. I know roughly what all it involves. I have confirmation that it was an EA/PA – although both of the jerks won’t come 100% clean with details. They’ve both just admitted to enough for it to hurt. So, my mind movies are based on him sleeping with her in the same fashion that he sleeps with me. I picture him doing with her the things he does with me, in the same ways. I’m 99.9999% sure he didn’t do anything kinkier with her because I’ve been told many times I’m the most adventurous lover he’s ever had, and I think he’d be hard pressed to find a woman that’s as willing as I’ve always been to do and try new things. So I don’t have those insecurities or mind movies. But I have ENOUGH that drive me crazy. I’ve said a million times before on this forum that I think there are levels to cheating. Yes, they all hurt. But I can tell you I’d probably be processing a drunken ONS in another state on a work trip better than I’m processing knowing he basically lived an entirely separate life and lied to my face every time he walked out the door for a year and a half. I cannot imagine trying to reconcile seeing proof that she insulted you to him. Seeing actual movies of them together. Knowing that she was doing things sexually with him that she wouldn’t/won’t do with you. I feel that I myself am working so hard to forgive a TON and I’m failing. I really feel like what you’re trying to forgive is a million times worse. I just don’t think I could do it.


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## wmn1

Clay2013 said:


> She would no longer be that special person to have to have that great of a connection with. Sex would just be that. I wouldn't want that special connection with her anymore. I doubt seriously this will last. In time it will eat away at him and then when that day comes he will realize it was a deal breaker for him.
> 
> C



I agree Clay. Exactly. It won't last and yes, there are dealbreakers. People know this and won't stand firm. It's truly sad


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## BruceBanner

TX-SC said:


> So, they had a quickie in a motel room where he just lifted up her dress and left his clothes on, and yet it was video taped?
> 
> Also, I'm confused about why someone would cheat (both of them were cheating, right?) and yet they made, and kept, so many videos of it? It all makes no sense at all.


I always imagined that it was well known around here that some people get a genuine kick out of cheating but I guess I was wrong.


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## chillymorn69

For the ladies

She was skinner,had biger boobs, would suck the chrome off a bumper, and loved anal

For the men

He was hung like Holems and took her to pound town. She had more orgasms with him than she did your whole marriage.


Believe what you want. 


Should have kicked them to the curb!


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## Jharp

@Scooter123 any update?


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## SweetAndSour

Scooter123 said:


> You are the second person to mention open marriage. A very close friend also threw it out there. Do you know anyone with a working open marriage? I'm just trying to consider all the alternatives, far fetched or not.


Are you serious ? you deserve her.


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## SweetAndSour

Scooter123,

Stop saying you're having mind movies. You have the real movies and you still don't get it, do you ?


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## Stormguy2018

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well ain't _*she*_ a class act?
> 
> What a steaming pile of bull**** THAT is. Wonder how long it took her to make up *that* ridiculous excuse.
> 
> Look, you're asking her to do things that she wouldn't do with you BEFORE she had her affair. Here it is 2 years after the affair and she's STILL telling you no. So whatever reasons she had to say "no" *before *the affair are still the same reasons you're hearing "no" now. Her creep OM has nothing to do with her refusal to experiment with you. I will say her slimy - but _very_ transparent - attempt to use her OM as an excuse "because she doesn't want to do anything associated with the OM" is downright laughable. Since these two fools pretty much did everything under the sun, wouldn't it stand to reason that ANYTHING she does with you would be 'associated' with the OM? Did they kiss? Did they hug? Did they engage in oral sex? Back rubs? Kissing the neck? I would have to assume she can't do ANY of that with you either since it's 'associated with the OM and all.'
> 
> She's such a lying phony.
> 
> You can go to MC until the cows come home. It's not going to change the way you see her now. Hell not even a gallon of brain bleach will do *that*.


Perfect!


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