# Ex refuses to move on



## finallydivorced (Oct 13, 2014)

We are divorced. Our divorce is final. We live separately and have for quite sometime. We have child custody order and visitation in place. I have moved on - he seems to refuse to do so. 

He was very controlling during our marriage and is still controlling even when we are divorced. It has caused so much conflict that we are unable to co-parent. The court even ordered us to go to classes. A mandatory 8 week class to learn how to co-parent without conflict. It has been a miserable failure. I want it to be successful. I want to be able to raise children with this person. We have two amazing kids who deserve two parents who can at least be there for them if they can not be married. 

He is just determined to show my kids what a terrible person I am. Yes, I did move on. Yes, I have dated. Yes, I have made mistakes. But No, I never cheated on him. No, I did not date anyone until after we were completely done. He became religious after I left him and decided that we are married for life and even though we are divorced, we are not divorced in the eyes of the Lord. He tells our children this kind of stuff!

Anyway, I am just so frustrated. I go to these classes weekly and he just sits there and only has something to say when whatever he says is going to relate in some way to something I have done. Something he can use to get a dig in. 

Can anyone else relate? I am honestly not sure exactly what I am looking for here... maybe just a place to vent. Some hope, some sympathy, some understanding... I don't know. Thanks for reading.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How does he know what you are doing in your personal life?

How often do you talk to him?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I strongly believe in a higher power but I have numerous issues with 

organized religion. I can imagine how he makes you look like the wh0re

of Babylon. He appears to be miserable and by sh1t he will drag you

down with him. You know better but it's hard to dismiss these 

character assassinations. Maybe if you could have a child swap on

Halloween night, meet him dressed as a she-devil. Play it off and say,

"Ya got me, I'm a devil...aren't I?" With you jokingly playing this off,

maybe his quest to smear your name will not "be that fun anymore."

In dealing with him, it may be "lose most of the battles but win the war."

I know you are frustrated and he is like a large boil on your arse. 

Hang in there. There is just as many a-hole guys as there are girls

when it comes to co-parents post-D.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Well, even though you aren't asking for advice, I will tell you I can relate and give you some pointers on how I eventually had to deal with it.

First off, he obviously shouldn't tell children anything negative about you. If his religious opinion, whether formed after divorce or not, is that marriage is forever, sharing that isn't wrong, but you are certainly allowed to share you view of divorce as well.

You might want to check out the book Divorce Poison - it discusses some good ways to handle contentious parenting situations that are product or at least not hurtful. 

It may come to the point that co-parenting isn't feasible. It was not, for me. We tried it for a while but eventually when I felt his complete lack of respect for my parenting choices were disruptive and on the extreme end, destructive, I got full legal custody and now I make parenting decisions alone although I'm to advise him and cooperate with him when I can. What we have now is called a "parallel parenting plan" - look it up; it's a term I only recently learned but it was obvious that was what the judge had in mind when it was written. 

Keep all communication in writing, whether text or email, so that there is no confusion and you can redirect him to what was agreed upon if need be. 

Do not engage. If he is drawing you into conversations about your personal life, your choices, your parenting, etc. - disengage. It might take a little practice but this is why keeping all things in writing is good. But if he happens to corner you at a school function or at exchange, have your rehearsed line ready: "If we have nothing more to discuss about the children, we're going to leave now/I'm going to hang up/I'm going to go sit down/etc." If it's in front of the kids, same thing: "If there is something you want to discuss about the kids, please send me an email. This is not an appropriate thing to discuss in front of them." 

With this type of person you have to be very firm with your boundaries - after several times of being blocked, they will generally stop trying. Mine would stop mid-sentence with his rehashing and get right back to the reason he called because he knew I would hang up. The first time I got a call right back with a "you hung up on me" and I said "No, I told you if you had nothing more to discuss about X, I was hanging up and said goodbye. Concluding the call and saying goodbye is not hanging up on you. The call was not productive and I'm not going to listen to your criticism and rehashing of old business - you said you called to discuss X and yet you did not. NOW - if you have something to say about X, by all means let's discuss but I will not be berated - it's not productive."

Hopefully he will learn - be sure to include him always - when you put down contact info at school, etc. Also a on-line calendar is often suggested here - maybe they already told you in the co-parenting class. But that helps keep everybody on track and know what holidays, weekends, teacher work days, etc. are spent with which parent.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

When it comes to controlling spouses and ex's, a strategy which can be very effective is called the 'gray rock' strategy.

The theory is that many if not most narcissistic people really thrive on the drama and the attention it brings. Therefore, you starve them of it. You become the most boring person in the world to them. Cultivate a dreadfully dull hobby (anything which requires research and patience is super effective - I took up reading comic books.) Go NC, and when they contact you, answer in super simple yes or no answers. No explanations, no emotions, no nothing - and if something isn't a question, it doesn't get a response. When you get cornered in a child hand-off, you have your dull hobby to gush over - every... little... detail. 

If he doesn't get the drama he wants from you, it's very likely he'll move on to someone who will provide it for him. And don't worry too much about what he tells the children - you be you, and the kids will know you, and in time, they'll know the truth of the whole situation. First time you hear "[daddy] isn't very nice to you is a heartbreaker.


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## finallydivorced (Oct 13, 2014)

He questions our children all the time. He drives by my house and the homes of my friends even when it is his own parenting time to try to keep tabs on me. He has our children call me on his parenting time when he knows that I have gone out of town and already made arrangements to call the kids at a certain time - 8pm. He continues to put doubt it our children's mind about how much I care for them... Like this... I wonder why your mom isn't answering the phone, I wonder what she is doing that is more important that talking to you guys... I only know this because he didn't know the phone was still on and recording on my voicemail once. 

Before you ask, yes I am pursuing a restraining order but it is very difficult to obtain one without any physical violence or a threat of physical violence. 

Thank you for all the words of wisdom. I have a boring hobby already, crochet, I will have to get in the habit of using some double crochet talk the next time he corners me. Disengaging is so hard sometimes when he just keeps digging at me! I am determined to work on it though. I have many more years of practice ahead of me!

Going to do some research on parallel parenting plans also! We have mediation again on November 7th!


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

I am delighted for you that you were able to divorce.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

He's a sad, pathetic, small man who has to build himself up by tearing you down.

Ignore him as much as possible. And don't worry about your kids... they are savvy and they know who is the good parent. All he is doing is building resentment in them against himself. He's just too stupid to realize it. 

I recommend you find a 6'5" MMA fighter to date.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

This is my situation too. 4 years later and he still does not get it. 

I personally feel it is a mental illness and until they deal with that, it will not change until you take matters into your own hands. 
Does he have ground rules about what he is allowed and not allowed to say to the children? Mine does, and as long as he is stable, he can manage to behave....when he is not stable, I do not let him have the kids.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Bandit, I try really hard to not project but young kids DON'T always know who the best parent is. A manipulative alienating parent CAN cast doubt in a young person's mind. Although I wouldn't necessarily rush to shout "parental alienation!!!", after having experienced it myself it warrants watching closely. There are parents here who did not, thinking it was best to not defend or explain themselves or speak negatively about the other parent only to find themselves completely ignored and hated by their own children. 

Most parents put the well-being of their kids above their own feelings about the ex. This goes beyond a little badmouthing out of frustration or anger. Most alienating parents have a personality disorder and control issues are often one of many symptoms of a lot of PDs.

OP, please do take it seriously. Hopefully this will subside over time but it's better safe than sorry. 

Document everything he is doing. Get a motion activated camera to record his drive-bys. Excellent proof of stalking which is a very good reason to get an RO. Check state law to see if you are allowed to record your conversations with him (one party consent). If you are, you can record YOUR conversations with him AND consent on the behalf of your minor children to monitor their phone calls and record their calls with their father. There is case law to back this up as my attorney researched for me when I was worried about what he was saying to her because he would call and talk "at" her for a half hour or more every night. I ended up with a recording of him calling me a b*tch while talking to our 10/yo on the very first try! So I am sure that wasn't the only time. If you are allowed to chose a family counselor or therapist to take the kids to, please do so. United Family Services was a life saver for me - they work on a sliding scale for their fees. I started by just wanting advice on how to answer some of her tough questions about the divorce (how much is too much info? what is appropriate? etc.) and parenting tips on how to best help her cope with the changes. In the end her testimony was key (only that kiddo wasn't afraid of me before and always exhibited loving behavior, etc.) and the other two best things I did were requesting a psychological evaluation for parental fitness (including consenting to one) and requesting a guardian ad litem to represent our daughter to keep her out of the courtroom because he wanted her to testify (at 10!!!).

He also drove by, sent long critical emails, berated me frequently over the phone (I tried to reason but learned to disengage), called constantly for long periods of time, visited at school and daycare without my knowing the extent/frequency, provided a secret cell phone, called child protective services frequently, had police come check on the welfare of a minor and culminated in taking her away for a month (June 10th-July 7th). 

By the time I got her back she refused to talk to me, was terrified of being alone with me and didn't want to live with me. It was pure persistence and educating myself (and three long years of utilizing the techniques in the book I mention in my first post) to get her from hate and fear to voluntary love, respect and affection.

I hope your situation never gets this bad, but it pays to be vigilant. This is your children's psyche he is messing with. It is emotional abuse to make them feel guilty for loving you and wanting to spend time with you. It is psychological abuse to manipulate their feelings and make them confused an uncertain and rejected, forgotten or unsafe where you are concerned. Children have the right to love both parents freely without fear of rejection or criticism for those feelings.

Google parental alienation and read up on Richard Warshack and Craig Childress. If nothing else you can help your children form good relationships with both of you in the absence of any serious alienation and in the worst case it can mean the difference in having them in your life or not.

Dr. Craig A. Childress :: Parental Alienation

Not to be a fear monger - just look into it and be aware in case you need to intervene.


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## finallydivorced (Oct 13, 2014)

Thank you all who took the time to reply. 

EnjoliWoman - thank you for all the insight. I have actually through my attorney already requested an attorney be assigned to our children. We are also seeking a home eval which will include psychological eval. I do keep a written log of everything and never delete any texts or emails. 

I will look into recording conversations and I think on my to do list this weekend is motion detection cameras for my home. 

Thanks again to all!


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill - I'd just rather someone be prepared for the worst and never need vs. being blindsided like some have.

Let's hope he comes to his senses or starts seeing someone new - that always distracts them from being ugly.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

As someone dealing with a high-conflict ex, the best advice I can give is to remain aware and positive. 

Be aware of their motives. The reason they do these things is because of their own short comings. Not yours. 

Stay positive and don't let him bring you down. That is his goal. He wants you to feel bad. Don't let him. 

Show your children every day, and in every way, that you will always love and care for them. 

The best outcome is two parents that work together to provide stability for their children. The next best thing is for one parent to give them that stability. Be that parent.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Sound advice......CG knows from experience.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I didnt see the ages of your kids, but I would suggest having very open conversations with them about how to handle their dad talking about you. Kids appreciate honesty, they appreciate being kept in the loop. Let them know that they can come to you with anything, keep the lines of communication wide open. Explain that what their dad says about you is not the truth, that it is his way of coping with the situation. (that way you arent saying that he is an a$$hole...) I am sorry that this is how things are going for you, lets hope maybe he can find a new woman ASAP. Thats probably the only way that his focus will come off of you.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

New love interests help sometimes but not always. Especially with disordereds. 

Everything else I agree with wholeheartedly. 

I have family meetings with the kids as well as one-on-ones to lay out the truth. Kids are much more aware than we sometimes give them credit for. Often times they already know and make you feel stupid for bringing things up. 

Teenagers are especially savvy and catch on to subtle nuances that we think they never see. 

Sometimes we divorced parents don't feel comfortable talking about difficult subjects relating to the other parent. We still have a job to do and a responsibility to parent our children.


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