# Moving on



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

The Christmas Eve fight I posted about was quite a blow.
But I want to move on from it.
Hopefully like T says, it can be "instructive." the conflicts always are.
What did I get from my hubs that can help me move on?
"i'm sorry."
he's also trying to show me he cares in specific ways we talked about in therapy...
I'm not trying to play a victim; on the contrary, as usual i'm kicking myself and bearing the burden of making things better.
Telling myself, "ok NEXT time, i'll..."
and for the sake of happiness, I'm willing to make those intentional adjustments.
Things ALWAYS go better when *I* play it cool.
Even when HE doesn't.
the thing is, there are things he has learned from his upbringing that are contributing to the hurt and misunderstanding between us.
(mine too, but his parents spent their entire marriage fighting, and basically hate each other, and he harbor bitterness toward them.)
And we need to talk about those things--in therapy.
Those are things HE needs to own, patterns HE learned and needs to commit to changing.
I won't have and raise children in a home full of fighting and yelling and cussing and accusing and threatening.
I am committed to that in my life. I'll do whatever it takes to have a peaceful happy loving home to raise my children in.
I married my husband because I believed he can be committed to that too.
I hope I believed correctly...
Yes, everyone, I'll climb back onto my trusty tactic of "don't push..."
and hope that as it has before, it'll lead to improvement between us; it has before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>I'm not trying to play a victim; on the contrary, as usual i'm kicking myself and bearing the burden of making things better.<<

Watch out on this one.

Anything you "fix" he doesn't have to.

I still sense that you are too much "out there" and hinging on his responses for your personal frame of mind.

That's called "head above water happiness" and it could lead to a guest appearance on Springer.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Hinging on his responses for my personal frame of mind...

Yeah...last week I felt I had a better handle on my tendency to do that.
I felt soooo much better....

My handle flew out the window during The Christmas Eve Gift Debacle.

But I want to get back to that.

"anything I fix he doesn't have to."

what does that mean? I should do nothing, say nothing, respond to nothing, ever?
And assume that he'll do anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Hinging on his responses for my personal frame of mind...
> 
> Yeah...last week I felt I had a better handle on my tendency to do that.
> I felt soooo much better....
> ...


Concisely, it means the following:

Tell him how you feel in neutral language:

I really hate when this happens.

I'm disappointed with that outcome

I'm disgusted by this.

I'm frustrated with the lack of zest in my life.

(Notice the use of "I" and the lack of the word "you")

What he does becomes up to him - rather than planning a defense that will help escalate the conflict.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I did my best to that effect when I said: "i felt bad you won't get your gift on Christmas"

and he said: "am I supposed to feel sorry for you?"

It hurt. 

So THAT'S what he decided to do with my neutral language.
He read bad into it when I was trying to send GOOD.

What do I do when he hears my neutral language and reacts with such a hard heart?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This is what Conrad is talking about Using I Language - Marriage - Families.com and Ariel McLellan : Using "I" Language

** sorry I posted this before I realized you gave a reply . At least you are doing the best you can. Tough when your partner is just plain insensitive & can't see it.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I do that, did that.

His response to that is: "So?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I do that, did that.
> 
> His response to that is: "So?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then it's time to get quiet.

Don't feed it.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

That is very hard!!!!!

Yes, I'll give it a try.
I'll think of THIS post in those moments.

What good can come from doing that??
What happens then?
What does my silence leave space for?

Sometimes I think my best recourse is to breathe through the rough moments, and only bring them up for discussion during therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> That is very hard!!!!!
> 
> Yes, I'll give it a try.
> I'll think of THIS post in those moments.
> ...


Listen to me now.

Letting him shut-down, snap back, or whatever WITHOUT defense on your part ROBS him of what he seeks.

You have to understand that he WANTS your overreactions. And, he likely doesn't want them on a conscious level.

What is he left with if you quit once he starts being defensive, shuts down, leaves, etc.?

Indeed - what does he get from that?

Only a glimpse of "himself" at his worst.

Now, you cannot change another person. But, you can reflect their troublesome behavior. And, often, the best way to do that is with the language adjustments we've discussed - and appropriate SILENCE.

Let him go away mad.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I trust you and am so grateful for your help.

Still....

I don't think he wants my overreaction and reactions.
I think he hates it, but uses it to justify HIS overreactions.

But...I'm not here to try and read his mind.

I trust your advice and it is really helping me control the only person and factors I can control: myself and my own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad, I send you a cyber-hug. 

Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Credam,

>>I think he hates it, but uses it to justify HIS overreactions.<<

The second part of the sentence says it all.

By taking the bait, you satisfy an emotional need he has (blaming his stuff on you) that his intellect may not even recognize!

Remember - we are in the gray area of emotion here.

This is not logical - and you must quit applying logic to it - and focus on what gives you the best chance of working.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Yup, I realized that the second I re-read that sentence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## candice912 (Sep 4, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I'm not trying to play a victim; on the contrary, as usual i'm kicking myself and bearing the burden of making things better.
> Telling myself, "ok NEXT time, i'll..."
> and for the sake of happiness, I'm willing to make those intentional adjustments.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't bear the burden. Don't cave in, or else you will for the rest of your relationship. You haven't been married long, so it is now you set the tone for the rest of your marriage, barring a catastrophic event which may alter the ebb and flo. Instead, I suggest you decide upon your expectations and stand your ground without fighting. You may need to walk away at times and give him time to come around, but don't bear any burden. You only bear as much burden as he is willing to bear. I understand you both arrived in the relationship with your own set of experiences. We all do. We all have to compromise with each other. I know when he said , "so", it hurt your feelings and you should discuss that with him in a calm manner. When he is out of line, let him be out of line alone. You go do your own thing. He will feel foolish later when he realizes. I won't tell you I'm perfect or that my husband is perfect. I will also tell you that he does come around after my patience has run out. So, pretty much expect that for now. It sounds like you both are sitll learning the patience and understanding for one another.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conrad is too right!! No it is not time to move on, you have not resolved the issue of his hurtful statement because apology was not complete. Yes others will tell you are wrong to hold on to this but i think that this may be a central feature of your relationship and should be used to demonstrate to you wnd him that to move on from this like icing a moldy cake. You pointed out that he saus he is sorry and does things to show his regret they are not enough. 

These statements were nasty and unfair and as you said they are typical of other things that he has said. Now is the time not to gloss over this on fight, the value of staying with it is because it somes up the problem and really working on resolving this opens the door to making a better relationship in toto. Dont think that you need to move on look at this from the stand point of its symbolic significance . 

On another thread, I advised you to download the e book "How can I forgive you" by Abrahms - Singer did you look into it. You are not getting from him what you need to move on. You are being asked by your therapist to do all of the work to make things better. This is a common error. 

The person who is asked to do all of the work may stay in the relationship but has to stuff all of the rage and resentment that a one sided relationship brings. You seem too ready to accept his nastiness because you have problems. You cannot consider those two things at the same time. When some hurts you then you must deal with the apology and their atonement and then look at your problems. If you try to do simultaneous assignment of wrong doing you get stuck just like you.

You ask for answers and help but when you get good advice you offer some justification as to why you should continue doing things your way even though it is not working. I have the feeling that for some reason you really don't want to change your relationship and that you are getting some type of secondary gain from keeping things as they are. Does this seem true, if so can you explore why you keep circuling and comming back to the same place? I may have it all wrong so please don't take offense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Conrad, you recommended silence to an unwarranted response (and I think the OP gave a good example). 

I like that idea, but I see one potential problem with it.

People often interpret silence to mean consent--that is, if she stays quiet after he retaliates, he'll see it as encouragment-that he was right, that he should continue in such behavior, etc. But in reality, there is this "walk away wife" problem--women shut up because it is getting them no where in dealing with their spouse, and their spouse then continues the behaviors she objects to, because he thinks he has convinced her he is right, or at least has convinced her to shut up. But b/c she remains quiet--first, trying to love him anyway, then disconnecting b/c his behaviors continue to tell her that what is important to her clearly isn't important to him--and she ends up leaving the marriage at some point down the road, while he is "stunned" and blindsided. 

So if she remains silent, refusing to jump to his bait, and he persists in objectionable behaviors, practices, etc.--what would you suggest then? I'm just trying to think this through because I like the idea of letting the other person "see" the error of their ways--but what if they don't?


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Catherine, we'll talk about this fight at therapy next session.
I only have a minute right now...

For now, I want to enjoy my family for the rest of this week while we're at my parents' house.

Candice, thank you...I appreciate your pov, as usual.

Sisters, I am wondering the same thing.

Thank you, everyone,..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Bottom line: we're in a power struggle.

I know he wouldn't have made the "so?" statement, which really hurt, if I had kept my cool in response to the "foolish" comment.
--->we cleared up the "foolish" thing and he said "I'm not saying you're foolish; just that it was risky. I'm sorry that offended you."

If I had dropped it right then and there, the rest wouldn't have happened.

In other words, if I had behaved in the way ALL of you are advising, it wouldn't have spiraled.

That's what I mean by bearing the burden: 
I have to keep my cool, or else he won't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

credamdóchasgra~

May I make two observations? I'm glad you can see it's a power struggle, and part of the issue is that you two are married, not enemies. Right now you pull away from each other and push from each other, and where we want to get to is the goal of pulling TOGETHER and pushed as a team. So bear in mind that the end goal will be for YOU to grow to place where you turn to your husband and share with him, and HE also grows to a place where he can turn to you. 

Now, just a few posts ago you had a pretty major revelation I think...that he wants your overreactions so he can use those to justify his own overreaction. This is similar to the disloyal spouse who tells everyone who'll listen: "He/She screamed at me for two hours then kicked me out into the street!" and forgets to mention that their spouse screamed because they had discovered the disloyal was committing adultery! Ooops forgot that little tidbit! LOL 

But it's similar in a way here. If you choose to overreact, you make it easy on him because he can tell himself, "Look at what she did! I'm justified in doing it back..." and then release frustration or whatever like a steam valve. When you choose to NOT overreact..even when he's prodding you...you actually make it kind of hard on him in a way. He doesn't have his usual justification and he has to choose to either be the jerk he has the habit of being with no real reason...or he has to choose to grow up and behave differently! And that is a challenge!! 

Now, creda, I want you to envision this. He is standing next to you and he is whirling, cursing, angry, raging, furious like a spinning tornado. Usually you choose to jump into the tornado with him ... and you tell me: What happens in a tornado? Everything is flung about, destroyed, damaged, and wrecked...right? Or you can make another choice. Let him whirl and spin--you just choose to not jump into the tornado! You can even say that out loud if you want to: "I choose not to engage in this" or "I choose not to be provoked into a fight tonight" or "I can choose how to take that comment and I'm purposely going to choose to not accept that." 

See what I mean? 

Also, when Conrad tells you to get quiet and not feed it, but sisters points out that sometimes silence is taken as consent, they are actually BOTH correct although it sounds contradictory. It's not. 

Conrad says don't feed it. So you are sending out Good and he shoots back something Bad (or at least something you take as snarky). RIGHT THERE stop yourself in the name of Love and ask "What am I going to choose?" 

If you choose to feed it, you'd respond with something snarky back and it would spiral out of control (like it did during the War of Christmas Eve). 

If you choose to not feed it, it might look like this: 

You: "i felt bad you won't get your gift on Christmas"
Him: "am I supposed to feel sorry for you?"
You: "That sounds kind of hurtful to me, so I'm going to choose to not pick a fight now and go to another room until I feel better."

If you choose to not be silent about it, it might look like this: 
You: "i felt bad you won't get your gift on Christmas"
Him: "am I supposed to feel sorry for you?"
You: "I am taking that as a hurtful remark that shows you don't care how I feel. Is that how you meant it?"

To me both of these options don't dismiss your thoughts or feelings and use "I" messages to state where you're at and ask where he's at...yet neither one quite hits the mark for me. Know why? Because they just identify "...here's the problem...". An even better way to handle it, in my opinion, would be to share what you thought and felt and then tell him what to do to fix it--ask for it right then and there. That would sound like this: 

You: "i felt bad you won't get your gift on Christmas"
Him: "am I supposed to feel sorry for you?"
You: "Well maybe. When you make remarks like that, I think you are taking my feelings awfully lightly, I feel insignificant and like I'm not very valuable to you, so if you would be willing, would you give me a hug and tell me it's okay that they'll arrive a day or two after Christmas?" 

Now you've asked him right out loud for what you need! He can say "Yep I can do that!" or he can say "Nope I am not able to do that, but I would be willing to do this instead."

BTW, that's called W-T-F-S "*W*HEN you...I *T*HINK...I *F*EEL...*S*o I'd ask if...."


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

AC....
Thanks so much for taking the time...
Honestly, I handled the Christmas eve comment similarly to your examples.
I let him know it had hurt me, and that all I had wanted from him was understanding.
The problem was that *I couldn't let go of the sting it had caused me.*
sure, I handled it decently in the moment...
But I was still upset. And it degenerated and ruined the whole day.
Damage was done.

But you are very right and so helpful.
It's a challenge to remember these things when I'm upset, but for the sake of the bigger picture, I can and have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

LOL Well you know, when a person is "learning" or trying something new, it usually doesn't go right the first time. It feels un-natural and instead of "feeding it" you maybe go the opposite way and "starve it" (heeehee)-- but the point is that you try something new, then think "Okay that wasn't perfect, but next time I handled the talking part alright and I'm going to do X and Y to handle the feelings part better." 

When you ask for what you need and he gives it, but have that sting that you can't let go of--you know that's you choosing to hold onto it. So what can you do to soothe yourself? Your head may realize it's over and you've apologized and "made up" but your heart still has that achy feeling right...and that doesn't "just go away." Well if you know it's over and you still feel it, rather than ruining a whole day, do something to soothe yourself. I myself like to do a cup of tea, hug a bear, take a hot shower, or do a little treat like a cookie or ice cream.


----------



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, the art of self-soothing...
Like the art of the time-out...
We need to learn them both...

Good point...after I had let him know what had stung and what I had needed (understanding, a hug), he gave it to me but it felt fake and like you say, I couldn't shake it.
I am fully aware of what *I* can do each and every time an issue arises...
I'm fully aware that MY actions play a huge role in how these things go.
In that way, I do have a lot of power in each situation...
But that puts a lot of the responsibility on me..."don't react, don't overreact, be calm, self soothe, get quiet, yadda yadda"
and then I think "ok what's HE going to do in these moments?"

I do trust you wise people, you've been very helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

