# Unable to move past husband's porn use



## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

This is long, but I can't help it. Let me start by saying I understand this is normally a hot button topic, and I'm hoping to exclude arguments about it here, because I'm desperate for someone to understand. I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone.

I understand and respect people have many different opinions on porn, and my views are not at all meant to threaten anyone else's choices. I have many personal reasons why porn is not okay with me, or wanted in my marriage, including having been sexually assaulted a couple times (one instance was attempted when I was 17 by a much older man) and having severe body image issues (was bulimic for awhile, and in recovery). 

My husband and I have been together for 14 years, and I was very candid about my relationship needs concerning porn from the very beginning. He said he'd happily live without it, no problem. He said porn was pretty repulsive to him anyway. This was reinforced for several years until I felt safe to be married and have children with him.

10 years later, i finally found he had been viewing porn our entire relationship and lying about it. I was devastated after the major confession. We talked it through over a long time, and he insisted that he didn't need porn in his life, but did, for the first time, say that he felt porn was fine and okay to use. This was shocking, as he had been saying the opposite for so long. I made sure to be as non-judgmental as I could, and tried to let him know that I respected his opinion on porn, and didn't want to keep him from something important to him if that's what he wanted in his life. I did, however, reiterate that I could not have a marriage that included porn, and I needed him to really think about what he wanted to choose. He said that from now on he would respect my feelings on it, and our marriage, and cease all usage. He claimed he was just being immature and compartmentalized everything, and was wiser to his mistakes.

Fast forward to present day. I discovered he never stopped using it.  Not just using, but I believe it has gotten out of control. He did it even while I was in the hospital after giving birth (we have 4 children), he uses it while parked while running errands, _even while driving_, and his work has suffered from the time spent on porn/masturbation.

On top of this, i noticed a couple years back he started having issues staying erect during lovemaking. 
His erection issues turned into full blown erectile dysfunction. He blamed his medication. I dont know if the ED is porn related or not, but given all the clues I have, I'd say it's a major factor.

Not only did he lie repeatedly for 14 years (including a LOT of gaslighting to make me feel crazy/paranoid for suspecting him), but now I'm being ridiculed for the same feelings he accepted years before. But the VERY worst part is, I built a life with a man I thought was someone else, and was denied the truth, thereby denied the option to make the best decision for my life based on that truth.

Now, he's wanting to rebuild and work on getting porn out of his life. He still holds his views on porn, and therefore, I know he'll eventually continue using (did I mention he's a compulsive liar? He lies about other things as well) 

If it matters, yes I have tried my best to be okay with porn, my entire life. I knew most men used it, and it would be just so much easier if I was fine with it. I tried using it myself (as my husband kept wanting me to try it, and said it was a turn on for him). I've tried counseling and countless self-help articles to become aware of my "issues" with porn and how to remove them. But it doesn't work. I cannot, and know in my heart never will, be okay with porn in my marriage. I can't remove that sense of betrayal, or that dark grip on my heart knowing my husband is pleasing himself to images of naked women. To me, it's not what true love looks like. 

I also tried to stretch myself as far as I was comfortable in compromise, and got multiple links to porn I was okay with (close ups of things, where the focus is the action of sex not the people and the rest of their bodies). He was thrilled at this, I just asked him to communicate with me about using it, and to take it slow as I was still trying to heal and build trust back. He immediately used it and lied about it again.

So anyway, I guess I'm just seeking some understanding and support. This is one of many big issues in our marriage, but this one cuts in a very particularly painful way. I just don't see how we can resolve this. I don't want to be the "Porn Police", always vigilant and afraid. I don't want to always feel like Im keeping him from something he wants to do. It just can't be in a marriage with me, and he says he chooses me, but his actions aren not choosing me. So does that mean he chooses porn?

I don't know...  Thanks for reading.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You have at least one friend, maybe others who totally agree with you. @Diana7


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Really porn or no porn, he has lied to you for a very long time. Besides that using it while he is driving makes me think he has some sort of porn addition. You also don't have to accept porn if you don't want to. You are right though most men do look at porn, but most don't use it while driving, while parked in a car or running errands. Most are not compulsive liars (you words). Look now if he was just using porn occasionally when he was horny like most men do I would STILL say it's your life you are entitled to have boundaries in your marriage. If you husband doesn't want to accept them or even worse lies about them then you have a right to feel the way you do. I am a guy here by the way. Thing is what you describe sounds like a full blown sexual addition. I really really hate to ask this but are you sure porn is the only way he has acted out when it comes to his addition? Massage Parlors, Strip Joints come to mind. I'm sorry to ask these questions but this kind of stuff follows a pattern. Your husband uses porn and his sexual nature like a drug, addicts escalate. Looking at porn when you are driving is very extreme. 

I just don't know if there is more to say on this. Even without his extreme behavior you made you boundaries plain and he decided to lie to you and marry you, so he married you in bad faith. He continues to do that, that is a very hard thing to overcome. 

Can I ask how old are you? How old are your 4 kids.

Also your theory about his HD is probably correct. Your husband needs help before he destroys all of your lives.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Years ago you stated your boundaries. He has spent at least 14 years ignoring them---lying when it serves his purpose. Addiction or not, porn is more important to him than you are. You feel very much alone, betrayed. He has promised to stop but did or could not. He is NOT likely to change now. What an empty feeling! Do you wish to spend the rest of your life like this? Lack of trust kills intimacy, connection, marriages.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The man you thought he was and that he pretended to be wasn't the man he is. I can empathize with your feeling deceived and of feeling like you lost 14 years of your life with him. But you didn't...entirely. You have a few lovely children and you have lived and learned and had joy and sorrow during those 14 years.

In your heart, do you think you can live like this for the rest of your life? Imagine being 65. Do you want to be thinking about his porn use when you are 65?

That might help you make some decisions.

Just take a deep breath.

Now some people are going to come here and try to ridicule you for not being in favor of porn. If you need to talk in private, feel free to private message me.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

He pulled a bait and switch. He knew what you would not tolerate in the marriage and why too. If he had any respect for you he would not have done this. Having said this he could have an addiction.
I see you are a victim of CSA and SA, and this is a sensitive issue however, I am wondering to what extent you satisfied his sexual needs in the marriage. There is no excuse for his lying absolutely, he should have come to you, but have his needs been met throughout the marriage in this regard ( I apologize for being so blunt). I think it is the lying that is getting to you and rightfully so. Trust is a big factor in the foundation of a marriage. Lying does not cultivate trust. i suggest you and he go and see a counselor together on this matter to see if you can both work towards getting past it.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> You have at least one friend, maybe others who totally agree with you.
> @Diana7


Thank you. You just saying this was a massive weight off my chest. 




sokillme said:


> Really porn or no porn, he has lied to you for a very long time. Besides that using it while he is driving makes me think he has some sort of porn addition. You also don't have to accept porn if you don't want to. You are right though most men do look at porn, but most don't use it while driving, while parked in a car or running errands. Most are not compulsive liars (you words). Look now if he was just using porn occasionally when he was horny like most men do I would STILL say it's your life you are entitled to have boundaries in your marriage. If you husband doesn't want to accept them or even worse lies about them then you have a right to feel the way you do. I am a guy here by the way. Thing is what you describe sounds like a full blown sexual addition. I really really hate to ask this but are you sure porn is the only way he has acted out when it comes to his addition? Massage Parlors, Strip Joints come to mind. I'm sorry to ask these questions but this kind of stuff follows a pattern. Your husband uses porn and his sexual nature like a drug, addicts escalate. Looking at porn when you are driving is very extreme.
> 
> I just don't know if there is more to say on this. Even without his extreme behavior you made you boundaries plain and he decided to lie to you and marry you, so he married you in bad faith. He continues to do that, that is a very hard thing to overcome.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your thoughtful post I am 36, my kids are 15, 8, 3 and 1. Until the young ones are a bit older, I don't have any option to leave as I rely on him to make money for the time being ( I work too, but my time is limited because of the babies). I feel completely trapped. I have been just trying to keep the peace and keep things normal for the kids, but he won't even allow me to do that anymore (long story... another issue entirely  )

And its fine to ask if porn is all he's done. I truly don't know anymore. I can say I'm 95% sure he hasn't. We work together at home, and I know where he's at most the time. The only issue is that occasionally he'll go out to the store and be gone an extra hour and a half. He says it's just his ADHD causing him to get distracted in the store (which is very plausible as he's been diagnosed with severe ADHD and takes forever on simple things at home). This lapse in time has been going on for years. So really, I don't know, and I wish I did.


I really appreciate your understanding post, it helps so much.


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## dallasgia (Jun 4, 2018)

Sister @Lostwife
I’m with you. I believe sexual energy should be kept within the marriage. I also agree that your husband has a problem. There is such a thing called “porn induced erectile dysfunction” or “pied”. As I understand it, it’s a pervasive and growing problem.
I have a similar story as you. Husband and porn, lack of intimacy, four kids- I can relate to you.
PM if you need a friend. 
Texas sized hugs going out to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

aine said:


> He pulled a bait and switch. He knew what you would not tolerate in the marriage and why too. If he had any respect for you he would not have done this. Having said this he could have an addiction.
> I see you are a victim of CSA and SA, and this is a sensitive issue however, I am wondering to what extent you satisfied his sexual needs in the marriage. There is no excuse for his lying absolutely, he should have come to you, but have his needs been met throughout the marriage in this regard ( I apologize for being so blunt). I think it is the lying that is getting to you and rightfully so. Trust is a big factor in the foundation of a marriage. Lying does not cultivate trust. i suggest you and he go and see a counselor together on this matter to see if you can both work towards getting past it.


 Thank you, its fine to ask bluntly.  I'm definitely more "plain jane" than him when it comes to the bedroom, but I do try to be more adventurous and have a decently high drive. The only thing he's ever told me he wanted more of are blow jobs. Some of the stuff he looks up is that. Oral is something I am working through (because of my history of an abusive ex-boyfriend threatening me to get me do them), so it was one of those things I was trying to compromise him on (finding blow job videos that I found less offensive for him). I also told him if we rebuilt trust I'd be way way more open to them, but of course, we never get there :/ 

We had been having sex multiple times a week (sometimes multiple per day) for the first 10 years. That's when the ED started up, an phases where he was just uninterested in sex. There were times I begged him for it, and he just wouldn't. At the moment, he's very interested in sex with me, but the ED doesn't allow it to ever happen.

As for counseling, we can barely afford groceries much less that, or a babysitter to watch the kids while we go. But I agree it would be a good idea.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> The man you thought he was and that he pretended to be wasn't the man he is. I can empathize with your feeling deceived and of feeling like you lost 14 years of your life with him. But you didn't...entirely. You have a few lovely children and you have lived and learned and had joy and sorrow during those 14 years.
> 
> In your heart, do you think you can live like this for the rest of your life? Imagine being 65. Do you want to be thinking about his porn use when you are 65?
> 
> ...


What you say is completely true and something that weighs heavily. I don't want to be here in 10, 20, 30 years with this still going on. I want to be loved and be enough all on my own for someone. I just wish it were him  I'm starting to really see I don't really have an option but to go, and it's breaking my heart. For my kids most of all, and for him too. I love him and don't want him to lose his family. It would destroy him. But I suppose he has made his choice.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> This is long, but I can't help it. Let me start by saying I understand this is normally a hot button topic, and I'm hoping to exclude arguments about it here, because I'm desperate for someone to understand. I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone.
> 
> I understand and respect people have many different opinions on porn, and my views are not at all meant to threaten anyone else's choices. I have many personal reasons why porn is not okay with me, or wanted in my marriage, including having been sexually assaulted a couple times (one instance was attempted when I was 17 by a much older man) and having severe body image issues (was bulimic for awhile, and in recovery).


Your husband didn't cause your bulimia or body issues, those issues will remain whether your husband views pornography or not.

I have no interest in changing your mind regarding pornography. Yet it is worth understanding that you will still have those issues whatever your husband does.



Lost Wife said:


> My husband and I have been together for 14 years, and I was very candid about my relationship needs concerning porn from the very beginning. He said he'd happily live without it, no problem. He said porn was pretty repulsive to him anyway. This was reinforced for several years until I felt safe to be married and have children with him.


Well evidently you have found out otherwise. He probably thought he could honour your wants, yet here you both are and it is clear that he hasn't been able to.



Lost Wife said:


> 10 years later, i finally found he had been viewing porn our entire relationship and lying about it. I was devastated after the major confession. We talked it through over a long time, and he insisted that he didn't need porn in his life, but did, for the first time, say that he felt porn was fine and okay to use.


Well he is entitled to his opinion on this, just as you are entitled to your opinion on this. If neither of you can accept the others feelings, then you both have nowhere to go together on this.

One could argue that him hiding it from you is a compromise of sorts, in that he isn't trying to upset you by having you see it. While a compromise from you would be to accept that he, can look at it as he pleases just as long as you don't have to see it.

Yet his approach is tempered by the lies he felt were necessary to afford you some comfort.

At the end of the day, if you feel compelled not to afford your husband the autonomy of privacy and acceptance regarding pornography. With differing perspectives, the only place he has to go is to lie to you. Or overtly hurt you by not lying to you.

If you want this to be a marital issue, you will consider it a marital problem. If you don't want it to be a marital issue, you will not consider it to be a marital problem.

Absent not wanting to have this as an issue, you both evidently have irreconcilable differences.



Lost Wife said:


> This was shocking, as he had been saying the opposite for so long. I made sure to be as non-judgmental as I could, and tried to let him know that I respected his opinion on porn, and didn't want to keep him from something important to him if that's what he wanted in his life. I did, however, reiterate that I could not have a marriage that included porn, and I needed him to really think about what he wanted to choose. He said that from now on he would respect my feelings on it, and our marriage, and cease all usage. He claimed he was just being immature and compartmentalized everything, and was wiser to his mistakes.


He may have thought he could meet your expectations, yet he hasn't.

Perhaps your life might be easier, if you worried about controlling yourself and letting him control himself. Without asking him to be something he is not. Since it is pretty apparent he is not up to the task of being another person for you.



Lost Wife said:


> Fast forward to present day. I discovered he never stopped using it.  Not just using, but I believe it has gotten out of control. He did it even while I was in the hospital after giving birth (we have 4 children), he uses it while parked while running errands, _even while driving_, and his work has suffered from the time spent on porn/masturbation.


Well having it impact his work negatively and doing it while driving sounds stupid to me. Yet stupidity seems to be a part of the human condition, so there is that to contend with.



Lost Wife said:


> On top of this, i noticed a couple years back he started having issues staying erect during lovemaking.
> His erection issues turned into full blown erectile dysfunction. He blamed his medication. I dont know if the ED is porn related or not, but given all the clues I have, I'd say it's a major factor.


Well erectile dysfunction is more likely to be an issue of physical health, perhaps he has an enlarged prostate or other problems with his plumbing. Oh and it is worth noting that some medication can have a significant impact on ones ability to have an erection and experience arousal.

On that note how has your sexual desire for your husband been throughout your marriage?

How has your mental health issues and medication, affected your sexual relationship with your husband?



Lost Wife said:


> Not only did he lie repeatedly for 14 years (including a LOT of gaslighting to make me feel crazy/paranoid for suspecting him), but now I'm being ridiculed for the same feelings he accepted years before. But the VERY worst part is, I built a life with a man I thought was someone else, and was denied the truth, thereby denied the option to make the best decision for my life based on that truth.


Well life sux, yet you don't get a time machine so dwelling on spilt milk isn't going to help you.

so going forward it's up to you to make your decisions based upon what you now know.



Lost Wife said:


> Now, he's wanting to rebuild and work on getting porn out of his life. He still holds his views on porn, and therefore, I know he'll eventually continue using (did I mention he's a compulsive liar? He lies about other things as well)


Well you have had bulimia, which is a condition that often sees those with it also frequently lie.

So where you go with that is up to you, yet it is highly unlikely that you are always honest yourself.



Lost Wife said:


> If it matters, yes I have tried my best to be okay with porn, my entire life. I knew most men used it, and it would be just so much easier if I was fine with it. I tried using it myself (as my husband kept wanting me to try it, and said it was a turn on for him). I've tried counseling and countless self-help articles to become aware of my "issues" with porn and how to remove them. But it doesn't work. I cannot, and know in my heart never will, be okay with porn in my marriage. I can't remove that sense of betrayal, or that dark grip on my heart knowing my husband is pleasing himself to images of naked women. To me, it's not what true love looks like.


Well absent being a hypocrite you have painted yourself into a corner, where divorce is the only way out. Unless you can get over it, get over yourself and accept it.

Absent getting over it, I hope you'll be happier after you get divorced.



Lost Wife said:


> I also tried to stretch myself as far as I was comfortable in compromise, and got multiple links to porn I was okay with (close ups of things, where the focus is the action of sex not the people and the rest of their bodies). He was thrilled at this, I just asked him to communicate with me about using it, and to take it slow as I was still trying to heal and build trust back. He immediately used it and lied about it again.


The lying is poor form, not surprising yet still poor. Likewise your moving the goal posts, doesn't make for a better situation either.



Lost Wife said:


> So anyway, I guess I'm just seeking some understanding and support. This is one of many big issues in our marriage, but this one cuts in a very particularly painful way. I just don't see how we can resolve this. I don't want to be the "Porn Police", always vigilant and afraid. I don't want to always feel like Im keeping him from something he wants to do. It just can't be in a marriage with me, and he says he chooses me, but his actions aren not choosing me. So does that mean he chooses porn?


If you are unwilling to be in a marriage with a man that uses pornography, I encourage you to divorce your husband. Since it is evident he will continue to use pornography and has no problem lying to you about it in order to avoid upsetting you.

So if you are not inclined to accept his pornography use, you are left with little choice, except to divorce him.

Otherwise absent divorcing him, you would do well to appreciate that regardless of your wants, he will continue to use pornography whether you like it or not.

As to his choosing you or porn, your both are angling to reject each other.

He wants to choose you, yet you don't want him if he views pornography. Since his viewing pornography is part of him, you are rejecting him.

That said good luck to both of you, whatever you choose.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP
I'm sorry you are in this situation. 

It seems unlikely he will give up porn use. You find it unacceptable. 

I don't any obvious solution. I think you need to decide if you want to divorce him over this. Since he lied about it, you are morally OK in doing so if you want. If not, i don't see any way you can prevent future use.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lost,
Super honest post that is also fair and balanced. 

There’s a wide range of conduct wrt to porn use. Generally speaking the most destructive point on the spectrum combines deceit with denial. And by denial I refer to situations where your partner chooses porn over marital sex. By that I mean he is choosing to prioritize porn over marital sex. This equates to cheating as it deprives you of a normal physical connection.

This is entirely different than a situation where he is up front about his use, but ensures you always have right of first refusal. In this case, porn is merely the overflow valve that allows him to fill in the gaps between his desire level and yours.

Not suggesting you ought agree to this (second) scenario. Merely pointing out that it tends to be far less destructive. 

And of course, this all assumes that the porn use is entirely passive, completely unidirectional. Meaning there is no interaction between and the actresses. 






Lost Wife said:


> This is long, but I can't help it. Let me start by saying I understand this is normally a hot button topic, and I'm hoping to exclude arguments about it here, because I'm desperate for someone to understand. I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone.
> 
> I understand and respect people have many different opinions on porn, and my views are not at all meant to threaten anyone else's choices. I have many personal reasons why porn is not okay with me, or wanted in my marriage, including having been sexually assaulted a couple times (one instance was attempted when I was 17 by a much older man) and having severe body image issues (was bulimic for awhile, and in recovery).
> 
> ...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lost wife, I am with you 100% and what I find very sad is that you think you must work on yourself to somehow try and accept that porn is ok when its not. There is nothing wrong with you, but your husband is a compulsive liar and cheat. 
I see porn(as do many others) as cheating. 
Personally I wouldn't stay with a man who was doing what your husband does, who married you under false pretences, whose use of porn is out of control and who has now got ED because of it. Who lies and deceives and who thinks its ok to mess up your life and cause you such pain. 

The trouble is that you seem trapped. You say you can't afford to leave but could he go and stay with a friend or relative for a time? I do know a lady whose husband used porn for years. Finally she had enough and said its me or the porn. The thing is that she really meant it and was prepared to go though with it. Guess what he stopped just like that. Your husband will know if you mean it or not. You may need to get work and have more money coming in, although he will have to pay a lot of child maintenance for 4 of them. 

I know another lady who also said to her boyfriend that she hated porn and that it was very important that she marry a man who didn't watch it. He, like your husband, said he did too and claimed he hadn't used it for years. Guess what, shortly after their marriage she found out he still looked at it. Her trust in him was broken, they divorced a while later.

PLease please don't listen to anyone who in anyway says or implies that his porn use is in anyway down to you, its not. He choses to look at porn(and to be honest its so dangerous and irresponsible to watch it while driving). Even if it is an addiction he can still choose to stop if he thinks he may loose his family, and if he doesn't? Well, what does that say about his lack of love for his wife and children? Also I would be seriously worried about having my children around a serial serious porn user. 

To be honest I doubt he will stop now, why should he, he has his family and the porn. He can no longer have sex with you because of it, and you need to decide whether you can live with a man like this for the rest of your life or not. If not then you need to make some big changes in your life.

As for the 'most men look at porn', as if that somehow justifies it, well I know a lot of men who don't. Also if most men do, what does that say about the moral values of our society? 



Message me if you want to talk further.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

As a woman who is not bothered by porn at all (assuming it's out in the open) let me say my heart hurts for you and *you* are *not *the crazy one. Also, even though I find the idea of my guy watching porn (again, openly) mildly amusing at worst, you have *every *reason to be concerned.

Please read this and maybe you can get your husband to read it too: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_Pornography.html

I am concerned for you that no matter what your husband says, he's going to keep doing whatever the hell he wants, regardless of how you feel about it. And it is infuriating to know you were upfront about you values from the start, and he lied and disregarded them.

I added some emphasis to your quote below. The part I made red is what worries me the most. 

You say "does that mean he chooses porn." I'll give my answer to that after I ask you a question: What do *YOU *choose? Do you really even want to be with this man? (I ask because you kind of sound like you are done with his nonsense, and if so, I would say Girlfriend, kick. him. to. the. curb. But that's easy for me to say because I have no childern and just got divorced and couldn't be happier. But enough about me. If you do want him, why? What does he bring to the table? Every marriage has its issues, obviously. But what do you really want at this point? Are you with him because you married him and feel obligated to try, or do you really love *him *and want *him* by your side?

To answer you question "does that me he chooses porn?" I would say yes, obviously. At least for now. Because he feels he can get away with it. In his mind it's not hurting anything (though obviously it it is hurting you and the marriage). But as long as he thinks he can get away with it, in his mind it's not a big deal as long as you don't know about it. He does not feel like he is cheating and he believes it should not matter. But obviously it does. 

I see marriage as an agreement. And when you agreed to marry him, you made it clear that "no porn" was one of the conditions of that agreement. And important to you.

Anyhow, bottom line, I'm wondering if you even really want to be married to him at this point? If you do not, this bald faced lie of his is certainly grounds for wanting out. If you do, I think this can be fixed but only if he can fix his compulsive lying in general and that is a tall order. As in, not likely.

One last thought - do NOT try to humor him by trying to get into porn yourself. you are a woman. as a generality, women are really not typically turned on by porn. At least not the way men are. If he wants you to understand him as a man, then he can make a mental leap and try to understand you as a woman. Good grief! Talk about gas lighting - trying to get you to be turned on by porn? Maybe you should try to get him turned on by poetry or flowers or long talks while walking in the rain. teddy bears and puppy dogs. Cups of tea or hot coco by the fireside while working on a jigsaw puzzle. Sorry, I'm in no mood for this man of yours right now!

Anyhow, I really do feel for you. And you are not the crazy one.

Good luck whatever you decide.






Lost Wife said:


> This is long, but I can't help it. Let me start by saying I understand this is normally a hot button topic, and I'm hoping to exclude arguments about it here, because I'm desperate for someone to understand. I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone.
> 
> I understand and respect people have many different opinions on porn, and my views are not at all meant to threaten anyone else's choices. I have many personal reasons why porn is not okay with me, or wanted in my marriage, including having been sexually assaulted a couple times (one instance was attempted when I was 17 by a much older man) and having severe body image issues (was bulimic for awhile, and in recovery).
> 
> ...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

He is *addicted* and he needs help. So, encourage him in that direction. Help him instead of blaming him. Alcohol, gambling, porn... once you are "hooked", it's very difficult to get out.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Tough situation. Think of it like an addiction, like he's an alcoholic or a drug addict. It won't be easy for him to get over his addiction and that assumes that he WANTS to get over it. If he does, it won't be easy. If he doesn't, you need to think about what you are going to do.

I was very troubled by the statement "I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone." While you can't control his porn use/addiction, this is something you can do something about. I think it is critically important for a person's health to have strong social connections. I encourage you to work on this. It will help you if the porn problem destroys your marriage. It will help you even if it doesn't. You'll be a better wife and a better mother.

My wife is a SAHM. Maintaining social ties requires effort. She's done it through being part of a mom's group when ours were infants/toddlers, being very involved at school (PTO, volunteering), being active in our neighborhood, arranging play dates with our children's parents, and getting involved in hobbies. It has meant being home without her on some evenings, but that's a worthwhile investment in her social health. I know other people that use church as a social outlet. Figure out what works for you, but it is critical that you develop relationships being your immediate family.


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## Coastalguy (May 15, 2018)

Lost Wife I'm sorry to read about your plight. 

My thoughts as a husband:

Your partner has consistently lied to you for a large part the marriage and not respected a fundamental agreement, something you were clear about in the beginning. 
He has made promises to change and broken those promises, favoring the addiction over a healthy relationship with you. 
There are numerous articles likening porn addiction to drug addiction.
To that point I found it easier to quit recreational drugs many years ago than recreational use of pornographic content. A consideration to be made is that pornographic Internet content is continually evolving, there is always something new and novel to chase, another dopamine hit to enjoy etc. 
This makes it extremely hard to stay away from it indefinitely. 

The Internet is littered with articles linking ED to porn addiction. There are many other possible causes but truly, this is a likely culprit. 

I need to add that your husband is not sexually deprived. Many times a week and occasionally twice a day? 
There are no small number of married men in long term relationships that would give much of value for the level of sexual attention you provide your husband with. 

Lastly, as others have mentioned, if you do decide to divorce he will likely need to provide considerable maintenance as a part of the agreement. 
It wouldn't hurt to consult with a divorce lawyer and get a feel for what you can expect. This may also help you decide which path to choose. 

I wish you well for the future. 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Personal said:


> Your husband didn't cause your bulimia or body issues, those issues will remain whether your husband views pornography or not.
> 
> I have no interest in changing your mind regarding pornography. Yet it is worth understanding that you will still have those issues whatever your husband does.
> 
> ...


Hello! And thanks for your thorough post!

You are correct he did not cause those issues, and they are mine. I don't lay those at his feet, I stated my past bulimia as one of the factors why porn for me personally is unacceptable.

For clarification, I came into the relationship with bulimia, and ended it after the first year. I have been in recovery for 13 years (the mindset is long lasting, and difficult to change, and still flares up.) I haven't ever relapsed. I agree bulimia goes hand in hand with hiding/lying. I made certain at the time to let him know I felt that hiding it from him was unacceptable (when he finally asked, I was truthful). Part of bulimia is living in a bubble where you think it's not affecting anyone else (much like porn use). It was an issue I became aware of and resolved a long time ago. 

I have since never been disloyal, or done anything that I knew would be hurtful or he'd be adamantly against for our marriage. I'm certain I've lied about trivial things before, I understand that all human beings do it sometimes. But lying isn't something I'm comfortable with for myself. Not just for him, but I feel better as a person to live clear and honest.




Personal said:


> Well he is entitled to his opinion on this, just as you are entitled to your opinion on this. If neither of you can accept the others feelings, then you both have nowhere to go together on this.
> 
> One could argue that him hiding it from you is a compromise of sorts, in that he isn't trying to upset you by having you see it. While a compromise from you would be to accept that he, can look at it as he pleases just as long as you don't have to see it.
> 
> ...


I am accepting of his opinion, and his right to it. It has been difficult to get a clear answer from him on his views on porn. I recognized that he's probably had to grow into acceptance that he does indeed want it in his life. Which I understand that people grow/change and become aware of themselves. He also seems in denial on his level of use, and how it might be effecting his life, which I don't know how to deal with.

I have read some couples can compromise in a way where the husband is hiding it, and the wife is able to live by ignoring it all. Unfortunately, I would never be able to ignore it, and the feelings would affect me greatly.

I do not agree the only place he could have gone with this is deception. He also had a choice to stop like he said he would, or come talk to me if he couldn't. He made the choice for me that I should live in ignorance, and that is something I am also not okay with.

Yes we have seeming irreconcilable differences on this, but I'm wanting to explore every element and aspect of it (including speaking with others such as yourself) to see if maybe there is a way to make it work, before making a massive, irreversible decision.




Personal said:


> Perhaps your life might be easier, if you worried about controlling yourself and letting him control himself. Without asking him to be something he is not. Since it is pretty apparent he is not up to the task of being another person for you.
> 
> Well having it impact his work negatively and doing it while driving sounds stupid to me. Yet stupidity seems to be a part of the human condition, so there is that to contend with.
> 
> Well erectile dysfunction is more likely to be an issue of physical health, perhaps he has an enlarged prostate or other problems with his plumbing. Oh and it is worth noting that some medication can have a significant impact on ones ability to have an erection and experience arousal.


I am in agreeance that I cannot control him, and I can only control myself. The ED could very well not be porn induced. He is taking adderall, which is known for contributing to it. A major reason why I feel it might be porn induced is that it seemed to go hand in hand (no pun intended) with how much he was using it, and he was able to become aroused and finish with porn. And I agree there's usually no ONE cause, and psychological issues are usually in play as well.

He did state that recently even porn didn't do it for him, which added to his stress about his ED.



Personal said:


> On that note how has your sexual desire for your husband been throughout your marriage?
> 
> How has your mental health issues and medication, affected your sexual relationship with your husband?



I have never lost my desire for my husband. I want him just as much as I always have. My issues surrounding my past and body image have impacted our sexual relationship by making me feel less trusting and therefore less open and free. I enjoy sex less than I know I can because of it. We've had a great sex life up until a few years ago, when he suddenly started having phases where he didn't want me, and the ED started up.

He insists that he desires me just as much as always, if not more, and that he's completely satisfied with our sex life (sans constant blow jobs, as I mention in another post).

None of my medications effect my drive.




Personal said:


> If you are unwilling to be in a marriage with a man that uses pornography, I encourage you to divorce your husband. Since it is evident he will continue to use pornography and has no problem lying to you about it in order to avoid upsetting you.
> 
> So if you are not inclined to accept his pornography use, you are left with little choice, except to divorce him.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the hard truth. I agree very much with it. I don't agree with me rejecting HIM. I'm rejecting porn use and deception in my marriage. I love him very much, and wish none of this was happening.


Thanks again for your thoughtful post!


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Coastalguy said:


> Lost Wife I'm sorry to read about your plight.
> 
> My thoughts as a husband:
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for this. I did see a lot about dopamine and how porn addiction is much like drug addiction. He also has severe ADHD, which is in part due to lack of dopamine in the brain. So I understand why getting a hit of it so easily would be attractive to him.

And that frequency of sex was for the first 10-11 years, now it can vary because of the ED issues.

It's very hard to accept the facts and truths of our situation. We love each other very much. We have a wonderful family, and a great career together. To think that differences on porn (and the deception over it) could tear that apart, seems insane. But here we are, and it helps to have it spelled out as neatly as you have put it. So thank you!


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Lost wife, I am with you 100% and what I find very sad is that you think you must work on yourself to somehow try and accept that porn is ok when its not. There is nothing wrong with you, but your husband is a compulsive liar and cheat.
> I see porn(as do many others) as cheating.
> Personally I wouldn't stay with a man who was doing what your husband does, who married you under false pretences, whose use of porn is out of control and who has now got ED because of it. Who lies and deceives and who thinks its ok to mess up your life and cause you such pain.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much, Diana. Your post really made me feel not alone. 

I have severe issues making boundaries and enforcing them. I just want to make everyone happy, so I continuously move my boundaries until I feel contorted into something I'm not. It's an issue I've been working on but have not mastered yet. And now here I am, at a point where to enforce this boundary means destroying my family, and hurting my children in the process. I don't know how I could ever do it, so I keep trying to find a way to compromise somehow. 

But the level of deception and lack of regard for my feelings has gotten through and while I know what must be done, I'm so afraid of making a mistake.

And believe me, I'm with you on the "most men do it". I don't believe "Normal"="Right". I've done a lot of research on the effects of porn on not just marriage, but the user, that I'm confidently opposed to it now, and confident I can't be happy in a marriage with it. I am happy if others are okay with it, and even benefit from it, but I am not okay with a society where to NOT be okay with porn is considered wrong, and that person ridiculed.

It's of course much harder to enforce all this when it's my family on the line


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## changingmale (Aug 19, 2018)

Lost wife have you checked to see if the health department offers free counseling or a pastor? I know where i am at the health department does


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Compulsive behavior...

Tis' an addiction.

They call it an ad..dict.tion for a reason.

.........................................................................

An addiction found In women?

That little man in the boat, yes, he is to blame...

.........................................................................

Some men when they get anxious and nervous, they speak with their hands.
Their hands shake, flutter to and fro.

*I made this sound funny.
Sometimes funny rings true.*

...............................................................................

That is why God gave us the funny bone.

Men and women have them, two to be precise.
Located midway between one's wrist and shoulder.
Right at the back of the elbow macaroni.

Men confuse those funny bones with a singular one.
That one protruding at the waist [to floor waste] site.

Ach!

Ever watch *caged monkeys and chimpanzees* talk with their hands?
Yes, they too have an addiction.
One not found in the open spaces in the wild.

When men have too much time on their hands they fritter, flail away that time.
Sometimes on keyboards, sometimes on pogo-sticks.

This frittering then becomes habitual, even when occupied, as when flying through traffic.
Flying through traffic-lights on Yellow....closing ones eyes when going through on Red....alert.

We all have our own cages, all of these are man-made, some made of steel.
Some made of gossamer, straw, ghostly fabric, nevertheless, made and felt real.

The hands tell on the mind. 
They point to their problems, their woes.

They shake when they speak.

Ahh....

Oh my..... :|


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lost Wife said:


> Thank you so much, Diana. Your post really made me feel not alone.
> 
> I have severe issues making boundaries and enforcing them. I just want to make everyone happy, so I continuously move my boundaries until I feel contorted into something I'm not. It's an issue I've been working on but have not mastered yet. And now here I am, at a point where to enforce this boundary means destroying my family, and hurting my children in the process. I don't know how I could ever do it, so I keep trying to find a way to compromise somehow.
> 
> ...


Have you ever actually told him that you wont stay married to him if this carries on? Given him that definite choice? I think that men in this position sometimes need a sharp shock, to suddenly realise what he may loose. Too many women just look the other way because of their fear of losing their security. The man then knows that he can have his family and the porn. 

As you say, porn use is so damaging for the spouse, the family and the one looking. His mind must be full of so many distorted and skewed images and now he cant even get turned on by them. He will seek more and more sick porn to get that same effect.

Unless he is prepared to stop and get help, I cant see this ever changing. While he convinces himself that its ok, things will stay the same or get worse. The fact that he knows how upsetting it is for you, but does nothing to stop it, shows that his love for the porn is greater than his love for you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> He is *addicted* and he needs help. So, encourage him in that direction. Help him instead of blaming him. Alcohol, gambling, porn... once you are "hooked", it's very difficult to get out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> He is *addicted* and he needs help. So, encourage him in that direction. Help him instead of blaming him. Alcohol, gambling, porn... once you are "hooked", it's very difficult to get out.


He is doing nothing to help himself or even attempt to stop. He doesn't want to stop. 
Yes its hard, but if I was in danger of loosing my spouse I would stop. No question. Millions of people get out of addictions all the time.


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## Annabegins (Aug 10, 2018)

I completely empathize with you Lostwife. I also married a man who I learned was a porn addict 10 years later. You’re not alone. And your husbands not alone either unfortunately. There’s addiction therapists that specialize in sex addiction that may be able to help him if he wants to do the work to save his marriage. My H read the following books along with therapy that helped him recover from his porn addiction. We are only 7 months in though so I can’t speak to the long term outcome. 

Breaking the cycle by George Collins 
Always turned on: sex addiciton in the digital age by Robert Weiss and Jennifer Schneider


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Have you ever actually told him that you wont stay married to him if this carries on? Given him that definite choice? I think that men in this position sometimes need a sharp shock, to suddenly realise what he may loose. Too many women just look the other way because of their fear of losing their security. The man then knows that he can have his family and the porn.
> 
> As you say, porn use is so damaging for the spouse, the family and the one looking. His mind must be full of so many distorted and skewed images and now he cant even get turned on by them. He will seek more and more sick porn to get that same effect.
> 
> Unless he is prepared to stop and get help, I cant see this ever changing. While he convinces himself that its ok, things will stay the same or get worse. The fact that he knows how upsetting it is for you, but does nothing to stop it, shows that his love for the porn is greater than his love for you.


Yes I told him specifically, very clearly (again), that I wouldn't stay married if it continued a few years ago when I found out both that he was using porn. 

Seeing the proof at the level of disconnect between what he was saying and doing, was a real eye opener. I am still having trouble processing that someone I gave my entire being to, was capable of doing this. Repeatedly for 14 years. I don't understand. We use Google Hangouts to converse often, and I have one instance where, when comparing the times between chat and web activity, he 1) reassured me he wasn't going to look at porn and understood how I felt about it; 2) viewed porn a minute later; 3) sent another message reconfirming his dedication to me and removing porn from his life, and that he felt confident in it than ever before; then 4) viewed more porn right after. 

I am so hurt about this, but I also hurt for him. His entire life is falling apart too because of this as well.
I agree he will need help to stop, if thats what he chooses to do. The porn usage, as well as the habitual lying, is deeply engrained from childhood.

Unfortunately, he cant admit he has a problem with porn, or an addiction. At the moment we cant even really talk because of our OTHER issues (controlling/angry/ emotionally & verbally abusive tendencies when met with hard feelings or something I'm saying he doesn't like....the rabbit hole goes deep in this marriage). So it helps to be able to talk it all out with you kind people. I felt like i was going insane, carrying it all around alone. Trying to smile and act like everything's ok.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lost Wife said:


> Thank you. You just saying this was a massive weight off my chest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One thing I need to say is don't assume you are safe financially which is what you seem to be saying is the reason you are staying. Lots of times when it comes to this kind of compulsive addiction it escalates until there is a crash and burn. If I were you I would start preparing myself for that, meaning work on making sure you can support yourself. Hopefully it won't happen but it can and what you described does not really sound like safe behavior or correct thinking on his end.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

There are Sex Addicts Anonymous and Celebrate Recovery groups that people go to to break sex addictions.

Here is an excellent website that explains how the addiction to porn affects the brain:

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

You definitely have your hands full with 4 young children. Do you have family that you can talk to or lean on. Anyone that would be willing to temporarily help you?

As @Diana said, you will need to set boundaries and tell him what they are. He will either comply out of fear of losing you or take his porn farther underground.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> As a woman who is not bothered by porn at all (assuming it's out in the open) let me say my heart hurts for you and *you* are *not *the crazy one. Also, even though I find the idea of my guy watching porn (again, openly) mildly amusing at worst, you have *every *reason to be concerned.
> 
> Please read this and maybe you can get your husband to read it too
> 
> ...


WorkingWife, thank you, I'm very grateful for your post. To read validation of feelings I've been dealing with on my own is tremendously helpful. My only other source of input on my feelings is my husband, and half the time he's angrily ridiculing how I feel. 

As to your question about if I want to even be with him still, or why I do, and what he brings to the table...When I truly sit and think about it...well hope I can break it down here, it helps me to see it listed). First here are areas of my life he doesn't contribute to, and I feel mostly alone on.

*Emotional well-being and safety:* This is a massive issue that needs it's own post in another forum, which includes anger issues, manipulation, verbal/emotional abuse.

*Core Marital Needs* Such as trust, intimacy, communication...all not good at all right now.

*Help with household:* He grew up in a hoarder house, so I'm the primary one keeping track of/implementing household chores. It is overwhelming picking up after someone with hoarder tendencies.

*Finances:* Because of his ADHD, he has ruined our credit by not paying bills or balancing our budget, or paying taxes. So I took over long ago and fixed it all, and am in charge of all money tracking and bill payments. 

*Taking care of the kids:* While he does help out if directed, he is more of the "fun time" dad. I am in charge of everything else. 

*Work and Career:* This is also a complicated issue that needs it's own post. But overall, he takes all the time in the day for his work, and leaves me with hardly any for myself. I also have to take care of everything else so he has time to complete his work (but he still doesn't.)

On the counter balance side, I love him because we click on many levels about a lot of things in life. Our goals, our sense of humor, our career (we work as partners in our field...which is part of the problem of leaving). He's a great, hands on dad overall, and I love sharing the happenings of life with him in general, and just being around him and knowing he's there. Our history and children together makes it very difficult to just "let go".

I do realize that he is the only person in my life who shows me any kind of love or affection, and it's scary to let that go. But the bad can be so overwhelming, I do feel if I had the means to, or a supportive friend or family member, I would have left awhile ago.

It's all a big mess. The porn thing is a massive, horrible cherry on top of a crap sundae. But I'm still really attached to, and afraid to let go of, the damned sundae (if that makes sense...I still need my morning coffee  )

Anyway, thanks for making your way through my blathering in this thread, and offering your input. It's helped me tremendously.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

sokillme said:


> One thing I need to say is don't assume you are safe financially which is what you seem to be saying is the reason you are staying. Lots of times when it comes to this kind of compulsive addiction it escalates until there is a crash and burn. If I were you I would start preparing myself for that, meaning work on making sure you can support yourself. Hopefully it won't happen but it can and what you described does not really sound like safe behavior or correct thinking on his end.


I very very much agree I need to get on my own feet financially. Unfortunately our work situation is complicated, and unusual (we work at home as partners, in a specialized field). He IS crashing and burning. He doesn't complete his end of the work, and I'm forced to give him all my own work time to make up for his, otherwise we would have NO money. Ugh, long story for another forum, but I completely agree, and wish I knew a way given my circumstances. I'll definitely keep this in mind.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> You definitely have your hands full with 4 young children. Do you have family that you can talk to or lean on. Anyone that would be willing to temporarily help you?


Thank you for the link. And no, there are literally zero people. My only family is a toxic father and sister who are not supportive or healthy to be around. My mother commit suicide when I was 19. I'm an introvert by nature, so never had many friends to begin with, but I haven't had time to cultivate any kind of friendship in years . I recognize it's important, however, and as the youngest child gets older I'm hoping for enough time to get out now and then to work on that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lost Wife said:


> I very very much agree I need to get on my own feet financially. Unfortunately our work situation is complicated, and unusual (we work at home as partners, in a specialized field). He IS crashing and burning. He doesn't complete his end of the work, and I'm forced to give him all my own work time to make up for his, otherwise we would have NO money. Ugh, long story for another forum, but I completely agree, and wish I knew a way given my circumstances. I'll definitely keep this in mind.


Find someone in the same field and ask for help and ideas.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Do you have a church family that would lend emotional support to you, or would help you out if things completely fell apart at home?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> Because of his ADHD, he has


So the problems you have which are considerable with respect to your husband fall out of his ADHD, so his problems with pornography are an extension and result of his ADHD.



Lost Wife said:


> I do realize that he is the only person in my life who shows me any kind of love or affection, and it's scary to let that go. But the bad can be so overwhelming, I do feel if I had the means to, or a supportive friend or family member, I would have left awhile ago.


Personally I would divorce, yet my reasons for divorce would relate to his mental problems and the problems that cascade from that. Since having experienced being married to a woman, who had mental illness in my first marriage. There is no way I would put myself through that again, or continue a marital relationship when faced with mental illness.

The difference between being married to someone with mental illness, versus being married to someone without (my current 2nd marriage) is night and day.

That said if I was afflicted with mental problems or a mental illness myself, I wonder if I would feel differently.

Two broken crutches can't offer each other much support. Yet codependency does not make for healthy relationships.

That said I expect both of you, would face significant difficulties establishing and maintaining healthy relationships with others, if either of you ended your marital relationship.

So if you don't want to be alone, you will need to overcome yourself and your own issues and start making friends with others and being a good friend to them as well.

Plus on further reading, pornography is the least of your marital issues. If I were you I would be more concerned with his ADHD and the financial and work issues. In fact the pornography is a bit of a red herring, versus the herd of elephants that are hanging out at your home.

There's no easy fix for this, or easy answer. You both had and have significant issues that you have both brought each other. I've no doubt you are very cognisant of the fact that you both arrived at each other with problems.

Unfortunately the reality is that such problems don't cancel each other out, and frequently become amplified when combined.

Sometimes broken to some degree, will always be broken to some degree. Which applies to both of you.

So it comes back to what will you tolerate and at what cost?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Plenty of people who have ADHD are not addicted to porn. If he wants to improve himself and have a chance at saving the marriage, he will have to deal with both of those issues separately.

Do you own a business together, or just work for someone and split up the work between you?

You say that your would have already left had you had the means. Can you begin to get your ducks in a row now?

The first step is to speak with an attorney. Call around and find out who will give you a free or inexpensive initial consultation. You will get some courage when you find out your legal rights. Knowledge is power.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> Plenty of people who have ADHD are not addicted to porn.


I agree. In fact no-one is addicted to pornography at all.

Let us not forget that despite the money that is made, from supposedly curing that mirage. Plus despite extensive lobbying and the promulgation of much propaganda on the topic. Pornography addiction still isn't recognised as a condition or addiction, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Personal said:


> I agree. In fact no-one is addicted to pornography at all.
> 
> Let us not forget that despite the money that is made, from supposedly curing that mirage. Plus despite extensive lobbying and the promulgation of much propaganda on the topic. Pornography addiction still isn't recognised as a condition or addiction, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.


Oh... if the experts in the white coats don't recognize something as being a disease or disorder, then it isn't. :liar:

Each and every disease or disorder listed in the DSM existed long before it was officially recognized there.

Or said another way, the DSM recognizing any particular mental disorder doesn't suddenly bring it into existence.

It is only a matter of time before porn addiction is recognized.

If you are saying that the only reason families and their loved ones are suffering because of porn is because of unnecessary negative societal mores, then I am inclined to suspect that you also would also agree with Dr. Richard Gardner who believed that the only reason pedophilia is seen as negative is because of societal views around it.

Overview of Gardner's opinions on pedophilia and child sexual abuse


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I'm sorry what you're going through.

I'd say if Christian, your husband needs to reflect on Matthew Ch. 5 and speak to his pastor or priest about it. If he doesn't realize it already, he needs to understand how wrong porn is and hopefully not just because it hurts you. It also hurts women, children, and families. Hopefully your husband will come to the realization that hell is a real place and he could end up there for repeatedly committing a sin like this.

Assuming he wants to overcome his addiction, he's probably going to need help. There are numerous resources such as St. Joseph's Covenant Keepers dad's.org, integrityrestored.com, etc. Frankly, he will have to give up his mobile devices that are allowing him private internet access (this is simpler than installing content filtering software on them). Seems to me if he is serious about overcoming porn he'll be willing.

Don't believe that porn isn't impacting his sex drive with you, that's hogwash. If a man trains his body to images on a screen he HAS trained it away from you, sadly. Husband's really should only need their wives for arousal- truly. I think this is perhaps the biggest lie about porn, that is, that the wife isn't "enough". Think about that... a screen offers more than a flesh and blood loving woman?.. think about what a lie that is.

Personally, I think I was only able to overcome porn a couple decades ago because I am a pretty serious Christian and had the sacraments (reconciliation, communion) of the Catholic Church. I offer this only to let you know that his overcoming it isn't exactly a walk in the park. I consider this perhaps my greatest personal achievement as a man and Christian.. not just porn, but just being overall dedicated to my wife in this way and the neverending battle to keep my sexual urges in check and not be a grumpy ass when my wife has had a baby, or is sick, etc.. lol. I'd say women really have no idea how difficult this is for men. Sadly though, most men do self "medicate" with porn and those that do never really experience what a fantastic treasure a wife truly is. Men actually can learn the worth of their wives by being "true" to them in body and mind.. sort of a fantastic paradox.

Best wishes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> He is doing nothing to help himself or even attempt to stop. He doesn't want to stop.
> Yes its hard, but if I was in danger of loosing my spouse I would stop. No question. Millions of people get out of addictions all the time.


But that's the nature of the beast... you can't stop, even if you are putting your marriage in jeopardy. That's why it's called addiction.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> So anyway, I guess I'm just seeking some understanding and support. This is one of many big issues in our marriage, but this one cuts in a very particularly painful way. I just don't see how we can resolve this. I don't want to be the "Porn Police", always vigilant and afraid. I don't want to always feel like Im keeping him from something he wants to do. It just can't be in a marriage with me, and he says he chooses me, but his actions aren not choosing me. So does that mean he chooses porn?
> 
> I don't know...  Thanks for reading.


I have not read anything in this thread other than your Original Post. I'll try and respond candidly as that might offer you some insight.

I watched a great deal of porn as a teen and when I got married and found someone to have a healthy relationship with I honestly thought I would no longer need porn. *My wife forbid it and I pledged to never watch it. But yet I did anyway. Why is that?*

Well sexuality and emotions are not that simple. Humans are creatures of habit and our first sexual experiences also define a lot about our sexuality that we carry into our adulthood. If your husband enjoyed porn before he met you and decided that it is OK, then that opinion is likely permanently imprinted onto his sexuality. Otherwise he would have to understand that he was doing something wrong and that his entire sexual history is that of something undesirable, shameful, harmful, vile, and disgusting that he was doing to himself. Those are not exactly things that someone should be taught about themselves after thinking it is OK.

Now here is an awkward part. Because porn was such a significant part of your husband's sexual past it simply is a part of who he is sexually. You reject that! Your husband likely struggles to feel accepted in your marriage for who he is, as imperfect as that may be. That creates shame on his behalf and his sexuality pushes him to be true to who he actually is. It is however extremely unfortunate that he has chosen to lie to you about it as this has violated trust in your marriage which is extremely harmful to any relationship. 

If you agree that lying about porn is more harmful than your husband actually watching porn, then THAT topic you will need to address FIRST. You need your husband to be open and honest with you first about everything and for him to let go of any shame and feelings that you do not accept/love the parts of him that are imperfect. THEN as a couple you can work on reducing and eliminating his needs and urges for porn.

Perhaps your husband needs to feel that you care and appreciate his desires for self exploration. As a couple there are many aspects of that behavior that can actually be used to bring the two of you closer. You just need to be willing to give your husband something stimulating to enjoy during his moments alone. Instead of porn, this can include things that are actually healthy for your relationship. An example might be to buy him some really good books on sexuality (written by someone with a PHD) and marriage for him to read and discuss with you. This would help him better understand himself and you as well. Anything that helps a couple to know each other better is also something that will serve to make a relationship healthier and stronger. 

Ask your husband to do a few experiments with his sexuality. Ask him to read an erotic story online that is pure fiction and ask him if he finds that stimulating and enjoyable. Ask him instead of watching porn to try listening to erotic audio that does not include any visuals and see if he finds that stimulating and enjoyable. Why those things? Because they can be created in a way that is purely fantasy and fictional meaning that the person who created them did not necessarily have to engage in any sexual acts to create it. Also those are forms of stimulation that require more imagination and less visual stimulation. Visual stimulation tends to make the mind lazy whereas stories and audio encourage the mind to go into overdrive imagining things. This is good for his sexuality and kind of like doing physical exercise for building stronger and healthier muscles. 

As we age physical sexual stimulation becomes less and less. Our nervous systems age and our hormones diminish. The mind however is an extremely powerful aspect of sexuality and it is more than capable of overcoming the aspects of aging. In fact the mind is where a far superior sexual experience can be achieved than compared to that of just friction and visuals. 

Part of this exploration is to also redefine orgasms as not being a goal of intimacy, but rather as an unstoppable side effect that can occur when you are completely relaxed and be immensely more profound than a performance/goal driven orgasm. 

Hope that helps,
Badsanta


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Whether or not porn should be considered an addition is tricky. Usually an addition refers to a behavior that someone wants to stop but is unable to do so. In many cases people who watch porn don't really want to stop. 

In extreme cases porn addition can be directly debilitating if someone spends enough time on porn to to affect their ability to have a normal life. I other cases porn use is offensive to their partner, or disrupts / destroys a marriage, and is only indirectly destructive - sort of like having affairs. 

In any case, addition or no, the OP's husband doesn't really seem to want to stop watching porn, so the OP s left with the choice of divorcing or tolerating. I don't really see what else she can do. 




Personal said:


> I agree. In fact no-one is addicted to pornography at all.
> 
> Let us not forget that despite the money that is made, from supposedly curing that mirage. Plus despite extensive lobbying and the promulgation of much propaganda on the topic. Pornography addiction still isn't recognised as a condition or addiction, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Personal said:


> Your husband didn't cause your bulimia or body issues, those issues will remain whether your husband views pornography or not.
> 
> I have no interest in changing your mind regarding pornography. Yet it is worth understanding that you will still have those issues whatever your husband does.
> 
> ...


This is the most disgusting bit of BS tripe I have ever heard. I cannot imagine anyone with character twisting deceptive behavior into such a pretzel of justification. I have lost all respect for you with this post.

I don't really care one way or the other about porn, but this is the saddest defense of pornography and deception I have ever read. I am almost embarrassed for you.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Oh, and that little post about whether you were meeting his needs? That is crap too. You don't lie to your spouse and deceive them for years on end. Period.


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I'm sorry what you're going through.
> 
> I'd say if Christian, your husband needs to reflect on Matthew Ch. 5 and speak to his pastor or priest about it. If he doesn't realize it already, he needs to understand how wrong porn is and hopefully not just because it hurts you. It also hurts women, children, and families. Hopefully your husband will come to the realization that hell is a real place and he could end up there for repeatedly committing a sin like this.
> 
> ...


Hello CatholicDad, and thank you for your post, it's very heartening to know there are indeed men who feel as you do. I was trained growing up that the number of men who do not choose porn was ZERO, and effected a lot of areas of self esteem, fear of trusting, etc.

I am agnostic, but enjoy wisdom and advice from all religions and walks of life, and would be happy to speak with any counseler, pastor, or otherwise, to gain many perspectives to consider. I have found religion based websites on this topic very consoling, whereas many other articles seem to enforce "you are bad if you don't like porn" opinion. Unfortunately my husband is pretty anti religion (issues from his troubled childhood), but I try to share whatever information I find with him from everywhere.

We are still trying to work through out differences on this topic slowly, to try and see if there's any common ground/compromise we can work from. I still don't know, as you say, it would take a hell of a lot of work, and while I'm willing to maybe explore the idea of rebuilding trust, I do not think he's in a place to change yet, because he doesn't fully understand himself on the subject yet. 

I believe him when he says he never _intended_ to hurt me ( I really don't think there was much thought involved, honestly). I believe he is legitimately shocked and baffled we're even in this place, and has a hard time facing the fact he's chosen porn over our marriage and my feelings for our entire relationship. 

He insists that porn is nothing to being with me, and that his ED isn't because he doesn't find me desirable or is unsatisfied sexually. But I really take what he says with a grain of salt now. I certainly do want to feel like I'm enough 

It's a work in progress. Thank you for taking your time to post!


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

badsanta said:


> I have not read anything in this thread other than your Original Post. I'll try and respond candidly as that might offer you some insight.
> 
> I watched a great deal of porn as a teen and when I got married and found someone to have a healthy relationship with I honestly thought I would no longer need porn. *My wife forbid it and I pledged to never watch it. But yet I did anyway. Why is that?*
> 
> ...


Hello there, Badsanta! Thank you for your thoughtful post.

I agree very much about his feeling not accepted, and that there's a lot of shame involved. Years ago I unfortunately didn't handle things well when I first found out. I was so angry, betrayed, and hurt, the last thing I was focused on was the damage I was doing by lashing out with non constructive judgements and hurts. 

This time around, I didn't lash out at him, and tried to push my feelings aside to really let him know that while I was very very hurt, I didn't think he was a "freak", and he shouldn't feel abnormal that he gets turned on by watching porn (it's what it's designed to do, after all). I also let him know that I accept his right to his own opinion on porn, even if it's changed over time, and his feelings are valid no matter what. I told him that he had a right to choose for himself whether or not he wants porn in his life, and I wouldn't attempt to control that. 

I did reestablish my boundaries in a less emotionally driven way. That I also had a right to choose for myself what's best for me, and that I still would not accept porn use in my marriage. He gets very defensive/upset at that. But I tried to let him know that while I don't know what will happen, we really just need to be able to talk everything through to see what happens before final decisions are made.

Anyway...all that to say i agree with you that his feelings in this matter as well, even if he did lie/betray me. And they matter because I do love and respect him as his own individual person. 

I never thought of audio, that is something worth exploring as a potential compromise if trust can be rebuilt first.

Thanks again for your post!


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> Plenty of people who have ADHD are not addicted to porn. If he wants to improve himself and have a chance at saving the marriage, he will have to deal with both of those issues separately.
> 
> Do you own a business together, or just work for someone and split up the work between you?
> 
> ...


We split the work, however we each cannot do the others job (we're in an art related field. My talents are needed in the first 1/3-1/2 of each project, and he is responsible for the last parts with his talents).

Currently we have paying work to complete, but his many ADHD issues, and a variety other issues have pigeonholed me into a corner where he takes all the time to do his work, leaving me with the the brunt of domestic tasks, alongside my own considerable responsibility with work. 

For me to change this and take more time for myself, or try to branch out to a project where he's not necessary (which is an option if I find the right project) would unsettle things to where he'd get LESS work done, and thereby our finances would be even worse (we're currently paycheck to paycheck bc of his many issues, but wouldn't be this way if he decided to fix those issues). Basically, I don't think there's much I can do until the littlest children are more self reliant, and I can find time in that way.

I also cannot ask around my own field for advice, as we're fairly well known in our little industry, and don't want some article to come out about how we're not working together anymore/marriage is in danger, as it could hinder further work prospects at major publishers. 

I will consider a free consultation attorney. It's scary to take that step, but I understand its necessity.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

My response to you will be inside your quote but in blue.


Lost Wife said:


> *Emotional well-being and safety:* This is a massive issue that needs it's own post in another forum, which includes anger issues, manipulation, verbal/emotional abuse.
> 
> *Core Marital Needs* Such as trust, intimacy, communication...all not good at all right now.
> 
> ...





Lost Wife said:


> I very very much agree I need to get on my own feet financially. Unfortunately our work situation is complicated, and unusual (we work at home as partners, in a specialized field). He IS crashing and burning. He doesn't complete his end of the work, and I'm forced to give him all my own work time to make up for his, otherwise we would have NO money. Ugh, long story for another forum, but I completely agree, and wish I knew a way given my circumstances. I'll definitely keep this in mind.
> 
> Can he move out and do his work somewhere else? Are there things you can cut back on to lower your expenses so you can get by without his meager contribution while you work just a little more and keep you portion?


edited: Sorry, I hadn't seen that you had responded to some of my questions already.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> I cannot imagine anyone with *character* twisting deceptive behavior into such a pretzel of justification.


It's actually quite shocking how little character plays into most adult interaction these days. 

Dating is much more based on sexual novelty (with the majority of men using pornography), and the attitude seems to be that there's no point investing time to know or care who people really are if you're of the mindset to use them and move on.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Lost Wife said:


> This is long, but I can't help it. Let me start by saying I understand this is normally a hot button topic, and I'm hoping to exclude arguments about it here, because I'm desperate for someone to understand. I have no close friends or family, and am quite alone.
> 
> I understand and respect people have many different opinions on porn, and my views are not at all meant to threaten anyone else's choices. I have many personal reasons why porn is not okay with me, or wanted in my marriage, including having been sexually assaulted a couple times (one instance was attempted when I was 17 by a much older man) and having severe body image issues (was bulimic for awhile, and in recovery).
> 
> ...




https://www.yourbrainonporn.com


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Can you learn what your husband knows art-wise, so you don't need him at all? Then you can divorce him and continue making your income. He would have to pay child support if they live with you. I would go for full custody if I were you. I wouldn't want my children neglected while their porn addicted dad was looking at porn. Is your state "no fault", or "fault"?

Start documenting the things he does, so you will have evidence in court, if your state is a fault state. Seriously. A man like him will probably flake out eventually and want to divorce YOU, and then you will be that many more years down the road, you and your children will have lived that many more years in an unhealthy environment and you will be blindsided when that happens.

You know, if you get tough, and put his feet to the fire by making him move out and being serious about divorcing him if he doesn't man up, he might just find it in him to realize he loves you and his children and he is willing to do ANYTHING to not lose what he has in all of you.

But he will never get there as long as he thinks he can skate by doing what he is doing.

Speaking to an attorney will give you courage. I lost my fear when I spoke to an attorney. My husband knew I was serious when I told him I was going to divorce him when I had my ducks in a row. Only then did he really start the hard work of working on himself. Several years later, he is a different and better man. But I still know that I will divorce him if he looks at porn or spends money outside of our budget without my agreement.

If he shapes up, the next books for you to read are His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters by Willard Harley.

Dig in your heels and don't budge. You and your children don't deserve how your husband is behaving.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Also:
https://www.hopeandhealinglds.com/2...t-byu-pornographysexual-addiction-conference/


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Lost Wife said:


> He insists that porn is nothing to being with me, and that his ED isn't because he doesn't find me desirable or is unsatisfied sexually. But I really take what he says with a grain of salt now. I certainly do want to feel like I'm enough


He could be having ED for 3 reasons, (but I am not an expert. Just have had experience in my own marriage.)

*1. He has a medical problem.

2. His brain has been rewired by the porn, and normal sex with a live woman, who is not a porn star doesn't turn his brain on.

3. He has recently "taken care of business" and his body is not ready to be excited again. He withholds the fact that he already satisfied himself, and lets you think there is something wrong with his penis. 
*
#3 is what my husband did for years when we were first married. I had no idea he was doing that. I would sometimes cry myself to sleep in the living room due to wanting more sex with him. I masturbated, but I wanted my husband, not myself.

He would say, he "was tired" or that he "needed to sleep because he had a big exam the next day", when he knew he wouldn't be able to get it up because he had just taken care of business in the shower. Now he says he was stupid and young, and felt guilty for wanting sex so often and he thought he couldn't possibly expect me to want it that much too. He also says that other times he was resentful and preferred to masturbate than talk with me to resolve our issues. He is not that way anymore. He doesn't masturbate at all, but "saves" himself for me as you have read that some men do. When he is upset about something, he talks to me about it. 

Some men just need to learn to GROW UP! Their wife is not their mother. They need to talk, and not hide in the bathroom masturbating. They need to be a sexual man with their wife. They need to respect her and not project onto her what they have seen in pornography.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> I never thought of audio, that is something worth exploring as a potential compromise *if trust can be rebuilt first*.
> 
> Thanks again for your post!


I agree that TRUST is important to set as something more critical to reestablish. When I worked through these issues in my marriage, I made it a personal goal to focus on anything that would interfere with TRUST and COMMUNICATION. Feelings of shame, guilt, anger, frustration and low self esteem all served to create problems in regards to improving trust and communication.

Just as you set aside your anger when discussing this topic with your husband, he will have to do the same. 

Watch this video together by clicking the link or google "brene brown vulnerability" https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability as it is a humbling lesson on how we all need to embrace being vulnerable instead of allowing ourselves to get angry. Vulnerability is way more powerful than anger. 

Then try and recognize your husband's needs sexually and appreciate them. Do not take it personally if he needs personal space sexually to try and work through some problems, but let him know that if he needs help that you will not think less of him for asking. Perhaps all the opposite. 

As for substituting porn with other things such as audio. Make it a point to share with him exactly what it is about one form of stimulation versus another that you find more acceptable. A rather popular collection of audio you can search online would be the "100-1 challenge." This is where a variety of people record themselves (mostly women) counting backwards while masturbating and trying NOT to orgasm until reaching zero. These can be found in all sorts of foreign languages as well such as someone counting backwards in French. Some of these might claim to be recorded by someone experiencing a Hitachi for the first time, and of course the listener will know that the person doing the challenge will fail miserably. Most importantly the listener does not know if these are real or not as most are likely created fictitiously for fun! Some folks might get a variety of gardening equipment that makes strange noises just to joke around and get people to asking questions and commenting about, "OMG what was that?" ...at the end of the day I think this type of content is much healthier than porn as it gets people to using their imaginations instead of watching a graphic act of prostitution created for profit.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

uhtred said:


> In any case, addition or no, the OP's husband doesn't really seem to want to stop watching porn, so the OP s left with the choice of divorcing or tolerating. I don't really see what else she can do.


I concur given that he is unlikely to let it go and given she is unwilling to accept it, she is left with tolerating it or divorce.

That said since his behaviour to date regarding pornography, is unlikely to change and their marital problems are much larger than pornography. I errr on the side of she would do well to divorce him.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> their marital problems are much larger than pornography.


What makes you say that?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> But that's the nature of the beast... you can't stop, even if you are putting your marriage in jeopardy. That's why it's called addiction.


Sorry but you can. Millions have overcome addictions once they really wanted to.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

So as well as the lying and porn he has anger issues, is manipulative and verbally and emotionally abuses you. Wow. 
I cant see that there is much good about him or this marriage.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> What makes you say that?


Her husbands financial irresponsibility, combined with little financial security. Their combined mental health issues, with codependency and a degree of social isolation thrown in as well. Then there are the communication problems. Plus a track record of dishonest behaviour from both of them (read Bulimia, pornography and more).


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hubby is just like the 99% of men on TAM that defend porn like it is a God given right. I find that point of view both sickening and ridiculous. 

Given four? children I don't see how divorce could be best.

If hubby won't and never intended to honor his marital vow to forsake all others.... Not sure this even is a marriage.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Audio porn? It is still a type of voyeurism, and no different from porn, even though it is just the audio part.

If my husband asked me if he could listen to that, I'd tell him to stop trying to gaslight me, and to pack his bags and not let the door hit him in the ass.

OP, don't let porn lovers convince you that your husband just can't help it, and that all men "just need a little porn" to keep them happy.

My husband is another man who has said that he is a better man for getting over his **** and ending his obsession with porn and masturbation. He says that orgasms feel a lot more intense now that he waits and has them with me. He also says that his sex drive has evened out so it isn't as difficult to wait until he can be with me.

Some of you guys here are just.....geesh!


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> Audio porn? It is still a type of voyeurism, and no different from porn, even though it is just the audio part.
> 
> If my husband asked me if he could listen to that, I'd tell him to stop trying to gaslight me, and to pack his bags and not let the door hit him in the ass.
> 
> ...


Our experience as well.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Porn undoubtedly is the biggest lie of our generation.... It's healthy, a lie. Men need it, a lie. It's not adultery, a lie. It doesn't hinder man's interest in his wife, a lie.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> OP, don't let porn lovers convince you that your husband just can't help it, and that all men "just need a little porn" to keep them happy.


I'm confused, do you think her husband has an addiction or not? Since if it is an addition, he obviously can't help it.

Now of course it isn't an addiction.

Yet I do find it odd that you claim it is an addiction in one post, while in another you claim he can help it, which denies addiction.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Personal said:


> I'm confused, do you think her husband has an addiction or not? Since if it is an addition, he obviously can't help it.
> 
> Now of course it isn't an addiction.
> 
> Yet I do find it odd that you claim it is an addiction in one post, while in another you claim he can help it, which denies addiction.


He has an addiction to something that people like you think is fine. You are trying to convince her that she is the problem and that there is no harm in it. You believe that the only reason people have issues with it is because of societal hangups...no different than what Dr. Richard Gardner said about pedophilia.

Overview of Gardner's opinions on pedophilia and child sexual abuse

Lost Wife's husband's porn addiction didn't start out as an addiction, and he shouldn't have been using it in the first place.

I'm not going to discuss this with you on her thread anymore, Personal. If you need to defend your porn use, start your own thread. 

OP started this thread because her husband's porn has negatively affected their lives. I agree with her that porn is a problem, and that it is her husband's fault not hers. He must take steps to get off porn, rather than her take steps to coddle him, or join him in it.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm not sure I am comfortable with a lot of armchair diagnosies about sex addiction to be honest. He may have a sex addiction, he may be just a low life, he may have erectile dysfunction in which he is attempting to self-medicate, he may have a kink, he may have some other psychological problems in which habitual masturbation is a symptom...we don't really know. 

What we do know is his needs overide the health of his marriage, not that he wants to be destructive to the marriage, he just thinks that he can get away with it. When he uses porn he likely has lots of ways to cover it up to make sure he never gets caught, 99.9% of the time it works, then he makes a mistake and it all comes crashing down. So he thinks, if I am just a bit more careful I can get away with it this time. And so on and so forth. So basically he never really has to deal with the consequences of what he is doing. He probably has convinced himself that he isn't doing anything wrong anyway. If you are upset then he deals with his conscience by telling himself you are overreacting. So nothing ever changes.

I am also very uncomfortable with OP's bulimia being compared to habitual porn-use. She has dealt with her issues and needs commending for that, the two situations are not the same.

My advice to OP if she is still interested in saving her marriage is to get to core of why he is unable to point his sexuality in the right direction. I think it is a very individual situation that needs months and years of unpicking. For example; it is not unusual for someone to live with another who has a very negative and angry response to porn to actually experience hyper stimulation to it (the shock value of something being taboo). High stress levels and poor sleep management may make porn an easy way to self-sooth. There may be childhood issues around sexuality that have never been resolved. Maybe he is grossly bored with life. I think he needs to work it out with a therapist because once he can recognise a mental trigger he may re-direct his desires to a more healthy place.

You can support him through it but you can't take responsibility for his actions. 

The lying hurts badly and sometimes that can be the final straw. I found myself totally calling my husband out on his lies not matter how trivial. His mother is also an pathological liar so he has never had anyone teach him the long term consequences. I will have to say he does on an occasion lie to me but nowhere near as bad as it used to be. 

There are people here who will not agree with me on this one but...pulling the plug on the internet and smart phones for a few months can help reset bad habits. Don't let anyone tell you this is infantalizing or controlling. If he agrees to it, it can be absolutely a revelation and a breath of fresh air to a marriage. You start communicating more, going to bed early, more focused on work and being productive - that's a really good feeling.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

I’m a woman who doesn’t mind either way about porn, my husband watches it sometimes and I don’t care. But I would never ever be able to live with the level of porn use your husband is displaying. While driving? At work? In between reassuring you he wouldn’t be watching it anymore? 

That’s really extreme. Add to that him being emotionally abusive and manipulative, getting angry wth you when you call him in lying, him trying to get you to also watch it, his lack of ability to function generally, him being your only support, your lack of friends and family...that sounds so unhealthy.

If I were in your shoes I would spend the next two or three years preparing myself to leave. Maybe that involves retraining or getting more qualifications so you can work independently. Definitely you need to make new connections. And I would work on detaching emotionally from your husband so you can leave more easily. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> Audio porn? It is still a type of voyeurism, and no different from porn, even though it is just the audio part.
> 
> If my husband asked me if he could listen to that, I'd tell him to stop trying to gaslight me, and to pack his bags and not let the door hit him in the ass.
> 
> ...


 @Araucaria this is great feedback. perhaps you could help the OP if you described your husband's process of doing this?

Were there additional issues outside of porn that were improved in your marriage as part of this process?

Where did your husband's motivation come from? Was it from within and something he wanted to do, or did you threaten divorce, etc...

As for me suggesting audio, that is just an experiment to demonstrate to someone that explicit visuals are not needed. That can be helpful for someone struggling with a PMO (porn masturbation orgasm) habit, to begin uncoupling the use of porn in combination with self gratification. Once you can prove visuals are not needed, a couple can let go of the audio and begin a discussion on how to better care for one partner's desire in the event something is mismatched.

Have you ever heard of someone addicted to porno audio? Probably NOT!!!!! Cue a lame rendition of the theme song from Shaft with lame faking-it voiceovers. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think the solution is that hubby willingly gives up his mobile internet devices. The computer in the house gets moved to the living room. This is like removing alcohol from the house if an alcoholic- remove the temptation. Make him really have to work hard to get his porn and you stop the impulsive behavior. He may relapse, but eventually he'll heal and get better. You can't force him, but he really does need to choose this to save his marriage.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

peacem said:


> There are people here who will not agree with me on this one but...*pulling the plug on the internet and smart phones for a few months can help reset bad habits.* Don't let anyone tell you this is infantalizing or controlling. If he agrees to it, it can be absolutely a revelation and a breath of fresh air to a marriage. You start communicating more, going to bed early, more focused on work and being productive - that's a really good feeling.


*THAT is some great advice!* Today's technology can prove highly distracting and almost induce behaviors that are OCD and ADHD. Taking a break from that can be highly refreshing and help a couple (and a whole family) rediscover what it means to communicate and spend quality time together. 

Then once you turn the internet back on everyone has a ton of their favorite TV shows to binge on, so it is a win win! Especially since you'll probably want to watch them together and have the patience needed to pop some popcorn first. 



Badsanta


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## Lost Wife (Nov 3, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I think the solution is that hubby willingly gives up his mobile internet devices. The computer in the house gets moved to the living room. This is like removing alcohol from the house if an alcoholic- remove the temptation. Make him really have to work hard to get his porn and you stop the impulsive behavior. He may relapse, but eventually he'll heal and get better. You can't force him, but he really does need to choose this to save his marriage.


Unfortunately he's a digital artist, so his computer as well as the internet are detrimental to work. If he moved it to the living room, he'd just look it up while i'm asleep anyway.

He used his phone primarily. He uses that everyday for work too. He did offer to let me put accountability software on all his devices so I could see that he was truthfully not looking at porn anymore. If I were to work with him on this further, this would help relieve my fears and help build trust back over time, but I also just feel a huge sense of exhaustion constantly having to rebuild back trust, only to have it torn apart again and again. I also know him, and know he'd occasionally get upset at me for "spying", "monitoring", "picking him apart" if I ever were to say I saw something questionable, even though it was his offer to do so. That happened today actually. I'll post an update about it. 

So I'm still unsure if he's too far gone and unlikely to change and therefore not worth more effort/pain, or if he really can do this. But I completely agree, that removal of all temptation would be important to someone who wanted to recover from a porn addiction.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> But I completely agree, that removal of all temptation would be important to someone who wanted to recover from a porn addiction.


I'll tell you something. When I first came to TAM there were plenty of people who had made up their mind and convinced me that my husband had a porn addiction. He didn't. He actually gave up relatively easily when we started getting to the heart of what was going on with him. He has also been diagnosed with autism since then which explains a lot about his obsessive behaviour. He now focuses on exercise and DIY, that's where his obsessive energy goes. 

If you genuinely believe that he has a porn addiction then there is nothing anyone here can advise other than give you support and sympathy. He needs to see a therapist to work out what it is he is medicating from. Addictions are always a symptom of some underlining psychological problem that needs to be unpicked by a good clinician. You also have to look at his personality holistically (because nobody here knows the full story but you). If there are other things in your marriage that makes you utterly miserable and lacking confidence then no amount of therapy is going to change that - people DON'T change, but they can change their behaviour (if that makes sense?). He may quit porn but still be a complete toss pot.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I am also very uncomfortable with OP's bulimia being compared to habitual porn-use. She has dealt with her issues and needs commending for that, the two situations are not the same.


EXCATLY

That was nothing but a thinly veiled and inadequate attempt to put a negative spin on the OP by someone who tends to see men as blameless and women as the problem and who thinks porn is above criticism.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lost Wife said:


> I also just feel a huge sense of exhaustion constantly having to rebuild back trust, only to have it torn apart again and again. I also know him, and know he'd occasionally get upset at me for "spying", "monitoring", "picking him apart" if I ever were to say I saw something questionable, even though it was his offer to do so. That happened today actually. I'll post an update about it.


Speaking only on the topic of trust here (not porn as violating trust is a much more concerning topic)... If your husband is the one guilty of violating trust, then HE is the one responsible for rebuilding it. If he does not want to do that with you and he wants YOU to be the one to do it for him, THEN give him an ultimatum to fix things and be prepared to stick to your guns. 

This could include him going to therapy on his own, working through understanding why he did what he did. Explain it to you openly and coming up with a plan of action to restore trust that meets your satisfaction.

YES! He needs to realize and acknowledge the pain he caused you by lying about things, and hiding them from you thinking he would never get caught. 

Now getting back to porn, one of the biggest problems with porn is that it obscures and overshadows extremely serious problems like violating trust. Take a hypothetical situation where you insisted you did not want non-kosher foods eaten in your family and your husband wholeheartedly supported you on that. Many years later you discovered your husband was going out for bacon every single night and blatantly lying to you every time by claiming he needed to run out and deliver some files for work. In this situation is is very clear to see that the problem is not so much the bacon, and more so that you have a spouse that has violated your trust over a long period of time. The debate over kosher foods would be a moot point as people can easily understand and respect that as a personal/religious preference. 

If you kosher foods were just like the debate over porn, people would come out of the woodworks claiming that it is perfectly OK to eat bacon and that one should not punish a husband for doing something he enjoys. This debate would overshadow the fact your husband lied to you and deceived you regarding this topic. Perhaps this is a horrible illustration of my point, but I am just trying to convey that "violating trust" is a very serious matter. Your husband violated your trust and he should be the one that has to do all the effort to fix it if he cares about being married to you.

Ask any man if he would be willing to give up bacon to save his marriage and it would be an easy thing to ask (although some people would aggressively defend one's rights to eat bacon!). At least until everything is sorted out and you both agree on how to move forwards in a way that is healthy.

I also encourage you use this opportunity to advocate your husband go get some therapy as part of his efforts to solve these issues. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think the accountability software is enough of a start. I don't think this has to go further than that, provided it goes on all his devices. I think he will eventually thank you for it and may not need it after a year... Why involve therapy... we've already established that porn is pretty typical for men.... we all need a kick in the pants now and then to straighten ourselves up. It could be a beautiful story in the end about how you supported him in overcoming a problem that nearly every man has to deal with in the modern world (most men never beat it, no pun intended).


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I think the accountability software is enough of a start. I don't think this has to go further than that, provided it goes on all his devices. I think he will eventually thank you for it and may not need it after a year... *Why involve therapy...* we've already established that porn is pretty typical for men.... we all need a kick in the pants now and then to straighten ourselves up. It could be a beautiful story in the end about how you supported him in overcoming a problem that nearly every man has to deal with in the modern world (most men never beat it, no pun intended).


*He also has ED* in addition to porn. Most often there are a combination of psychological and health issues associated with that for which porn may or may not be a cause. He also is a compulsive liar regarding this topic and has violated trust in his marriage again and again. 

This is my opinion is one of the hugest problems with porn that even someone like you will easily dismiss @CatholicDad as you see porn as the sole problem. Solve that and everything else is beautiful. We may disagree, but your advice to just dismiss the idea of therapy is likely more harmful than porn in my opinion. 

If he tries to go to therapy, how would that hurt him? Would you fear a therapist would condone his use of porn? I seriously doubt that! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I'm not necessarily opposed to therapy. I'd suspect that 99% of men on TAM lie to their wives about porn... Do they all need therapy. Maybe they do!

I think most men probably grow up as habitual fibbers about porn. "I don't do that", "I rarely..". Etc. I think also that hubby intended to quit, but failed because quite frankly it is an addiction and it isn't that easy. The temptation has to be removed and even a therapist can't do that.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I think also that hubby intended to quit, but failed *because quite frankly it is an addiction* and it isn't that easy. The temptation has to be removed and even a therapist can't do that.


:surprise: You think we were suggesting therapy for LYING?!! *Addiction *cannot be treated by simply taking away the drug. Because where there's a will there is a way. A clinician, cousellor or therapist needs to unpick the psychology behind the addiction and support a person with recovery. Even without an addiction, a therapist will also be able to help a person understand the nature of a destructive behaviour.


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## greg28 (Jun 26, 2018)

Yes your husband was wrong for keeping it from you. You deserve better. WTF was he thinking looking at that garbage? Men these days...


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Well, usually I'm on the side of a little porn here and there during certain downtimes of the month is rather blown out of proportion, especially in a LD/HD marriage situation.

In this case, if its affecting his work and he is yanking it while driving or sitting in parking lots, that's a little insane (and illegal). I think we can all agree that this dude has a problem.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

My BIL tells my SIL that he never looks at porn because he considers that an insult to her. And she believes him. I’ve learned most of my favorite new porn stars from him.

90% of men watch porn. The other 10% are liars.

That being said, I would never promise something like that if I couldn’t follow through, no matter how wonderful you might be. But then, limiting yourself to men who claim they don’t watch porn is pretty much limiting yourself to the pool of liars.

It sounds like you are concerned about the images of other women. Some men like erotica, like Penthouse Letters. You might be able to get him to limit himself to just stories with no pictures. Personally, I could do that.

As others have said, if he’s watching while driving, he may have a problem.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

One time a wife found a used condom and wrapper beside the bed. She angrily confronted her husband. He explained that it wasn’t what it looked like. “I sometimes masturbate while wearing a condom. Lots of guys do that.”

She didn’t really believe him. She decided to ask a male friend about it.

“Do you you ever do that?” she asked.

“Oh, yeah!” he replied. “All the time!”

The wife furrowed her eyebrows. “Why would you wear a condom while masturbating?”

The friend paused, then said, “Oh, no. I thought you were asking whether I ever lie to my wife!”


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CraigBesuden said:


> 90% of men watch porn. The other 10% are liars.


What about the men that no longer watch porn because it is boring and they have pretty much seen it all. Kinda like, "meh, I am just not into watching some dude struggling to pound a professional sex worker because IRL he is freaked out and sweating bullets with a camera/lighting crew of ten people watching him that will refuse to pay if he can't blow his load exactly as directed." At some point it just is not erotic or arousing anymore once you can see past the fake moans and grunts. 

I'm also reminded of a joke from a movie (I think) that had some porn producers complaining about how challenging the industry has become. I think the dialog went like this, "everyone wants amateur stuff but no matter how bad we screw up the production, lighting, and sound to try and make it look homemade it is never bad enough to look real! I mean the best videos out there are where people don't even turn on the lights and the camera is tossed upside down on the floor." 

Meh!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> My BIL tells my SIL that he never looks at porn because he considers that an insult to her. And she believes him. I’ve learned most of my favorite new porn stars from him.
> 
> 90% of men watch porn. The other 10% are liars.
> 
> ...


Why do you assume that all men are like you? There are many men and women who don't watch porn. They aren't liars either.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Seems like porn is a symptom. There are many problems in the marriage....on both spouses' parts. 

Sounds like you are too broke for therapy. Would H go anyway? Would he admit that he has a problem? 

You should focus on what YOU can do. You cannot change him, or make him want to change, etc... But you can work on YOU. I had 5 kids aged 6 and under (a long time ago!) and my now EX was as about as helpful, financially stable, and family oriented as your H seems to be. Add in no intimacy, and other issues....and I too was STUCK. I get the stuck part. At one point I ended up on welfare for some months....that sucked. I ended up getting back together with him, mostly because I couldn't do it on my own. 

Soooooooo..... I focused on myself and the kids. I volunteered for kid stuff (Cub Scouts, Little League, Girl Scouts....) and met some wonderful supportive people. i didn't even tell people about the then H.... they just saw me working, playing and loving 5 kids at all times w/ no help. They got it. I was also able to bring ALL my kids to summer camp, various outings, got quite a few "BOGO" on sign up fees for the other kids. (So I met good people, good families, gave my kids awesome childhood experiences, got free enrollment in things for the kids, and gained confidence as I went!) I learned that if I didn't expect anything from him that I wouldn't be disappointed. Which doesn't always work, due to human nature..... I was often disappointed, but less and less so as time went on. 

I also knew that if he wasn't very good with jobs/finances while we are married and raising a family, he would be less helpful if we were divorced. I went to marriage counseling without him (she told me to figure out how to do it without him), and I contacted lawyers to figure out my options. The lawyers tried to tell me how much he'd have to pay, and that it was absolutely doable. But I knew him, and I correctly figured that if he didn't feel like paying child support, or didn't feel like working harder to afford child support, then he wouldn't. 

I decided that I had to figure out HOW to get financially able without his help or understanding. I decided to go into teaching....so I wouldn't have to worry about child care. I started with video classes, and our income was low enough that I got PELL grants to pay for classes. I couldn't count on him to "babysit", but I figured out how to work around him. To this day he will say he "put me through school"....and I know, I put myself through college in spite of him. It took me 5 years....but I did it.

All this to say....it's doable. There are ways, you have to figure out what YOU can do to make your life work for you. Even if you want to work on/at him in the meantime.... you can be working out your end so that you are ok whether he is part of the future or not. Take your time.... peruse the local college courses that can put you on better financial footing..... figure out what YOU CAN DO.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Lost Wife said:


> HI certainly do want to feel like I'm enough


You are absolutely enough! My two cents is that to move forward, you will need to be able to say for this for certain - completely regardless of what you husband does or does not do.

He's made it clear that he enjoys porn and would rather view it and lie to you than to change his habits. That gives you a few choices:
(1) Try to make him stop. This IMHO will only make you more and more anxious and less and less likely to see yourself as enough. You will drive yourself crazy trying to catch him in his lies and slips and each time you do will take it as confirmation that you aren't enough. 
(2) Stop caring what he does. This will be hard because of the way you feel about porn. And maybe you can't
(3) Call it a deal-breaker and walk away. This, of course, has all the ramifications that you're currently trying to avoid. 

My advice is that whatever you do, make sure that you also come to know that you are enough and that his views are not a reflection on you.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

badsanta said:


> What about the men that no longer watch porn because it is boring and they have pretty much seen it all. Kinda like, "meh, I am just not into watching some dude struggling to pound a professional sex worker because IRL he is freaked out and sweating bullets with a camera/lighting crew of ten people watching him that will refuse to pay if he can't blow his load exactly as directed." At some point it just is not erotic or arousing anymore once you can see past the fake moans and grunts.


I think you have explained why so many porn sessions contain portions where the guy goes soft and has to be "fluffed" to continue, and then end with the guy rubbing himself out onto the woman. He doesn't want to run the risk of coming too soon while inside her. So he is doing all the positions while desperately trying not to orgasm. So he eventually goes soft. Rinse and repeat. Until it is time for the orgasm. At which point he is so fixated on not coming with her that the only way he can reach orgasm is to take matters into his own hands and think about a different session.

As you say, very meh. Sex as part of a real relationship is much better. And the OP is more than enough woman to provide that if her partner wasn't so messed up in the head.


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## Talk2Me (Mar 22, 2019)

Guys are ALWAYS going to look at porn. We don't do it to make you upset or to hurt your feelings or anything like that we just enjoy it. Unfortunately, it's part of life.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Talk2Me said:


> Guys are ALWAYS going to look at porn. We don't do it to make you upset or to hurt your feelings or anything like that we just enjoy it. Unfortunately, it's part of life.


 Funny, I dropped the everyone does it excuse wants I grew out of puberty.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talk2Me said:


> Guys are ALWAYS going to look at porn. We don't do it to make you upset or to hurt your feelings or anything like that we just enjoy it. Unfortunately, it's part of life.


I would like to eat cakes and sweets all day, but I don't because its bad for me and bad for my family. 
We can all chose what we do, and if something upsets our spouse then we STOP. Oh and BTW, many men DONT look at porn believe it or not.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

porn is one thing. LYING is quite another. why lie? if someone wants to do porn then freaking admit it and start living with integrity. if a wife forbids it and guy agrees, why? just say, honey, I'm doing it, if it's an issue maybe we need to reconsider be married. I mean, you're freaking tricking someone into marrying you or continuing the relationship based on a lie. how are ppl ok with this?
badsanta - vulnerable means on the part of the guy too. why not just admit you like porn and want it in your life. why lie?


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