# Letting off steam - AGAIN!



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

On Saturday morning I decided that we would have an impromtu barbecue evening that night.

I discussed it with my wife..I would get and marinate the meat, my wife would do the sour cream/chive thing for the baked potatoes.
I don't know how she makes it but it is fantastic! She buys some type of milk (buttermilk?) and puts it through a muslin cloth etc. It really is excellent.

Anyway, that evening the 'dip' is clearly shop bought and nothing like as good as hers.

I said: 'You know, yours is SOOOOO much better than this'
Her reply: 'Its your fault because you didn't give me enough time to make it'.

Oh right....pay a compliment and it gets thrown right back in your face. No more compliments then.

Just as she threw my sexual advances back in my face for so long and often that I havent made a pass at her in years...and have no interest in doing so either.

Why are people like that? Why do people, my wife, insist on living behind a bloody great big thick wall?

Sorry...just letting of steam. Makes me feel better!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

askari said:


> On Saturday morning I decided that we would have an impromtu barbecue evening that night.
> 
> I discussed it with my wife..I would get and marinate the meat, my wife would do the sour cream/chive thing for the baked potatoes.
> I don't know how she makes it but it is fantastic! She buys some type of milk (buttermilk?) and puts it through a muslin cloth etc. It really is excellent.
> ...


Why do you assume that she was throwing it in your face instead of just telling you the truth. 

And she was telling you the truth....



*How to Make Homemade Sour Cream*
To make sour cream, you just need buttermilk and heavy cream or half and half. Heavy cream will result in a thicker sour cream, so choose based on the texture you're looking for.

Add 2 to 3 tablespoons of buttermilk per cup of heavy cream or half and half and let it sit at room temperature for *1 to 2 days*. Don't worry about the cream going bad—the acid in the buttermilk protects against bacteria. It should last about a week in the fridge.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

When a person is deprived sexually (man or women ); they cant seperate intimacy from other things .

Men are more affected , because sex is their love language .

Sex deprivation is an abuse for deprived spouse of both gender ; some people who are selfish can be very harmful.

Askari is a man deprived sexually ;he is coming here to vent in few words because if he talks to stranger of opposite gender he will be seen as a cheater .

For me , when an anonymous user comes to TAM ( male or female ), describing his/her pain ; I have a feeling that the main problem is on the opposite side ; because if the spouse red 2 pages or even cared about it ; it would have been solved.

Askari , I am not a Psychologist , but my wife is like yours ; 

fore more than 17 years in marriage ; I tried to change so many times ; I was her doormate to satify her in services and wish lists , I tried everything you think off ; which I believe u have experience with it already ....
used all kind of ways from the soft gentlmen to a harsh pacts.

IN VAIN , not a single change from her side !

The more I am in securing services , the more defensive she is in sex ; because she fear that since you are nice , then you deserve to have your desires met ; but she will build a china wall instead to protect herself .

The big question is that :

Why don't the deprived spouse leave ?

-Either the load is big (kids, financial , etc...).
-Or maybe respecting the Vows : BS of society and religion and ethics.

-OR very few they get attached to the abuser .


MY wife is a BBDer , LD and selfish .

which is the worst combination .

I hope you wife is just LD .


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

I strongly believe that a compatibility test for intimacy and chemistry should be conducted before marriage !

just a simple , honest questionaire like his needs/her needs , when one of the spouses goes wrong direction , it can be pulled out and used as a lying evidence ;as equivalent as to cheating / breaking vows.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

EleG - I admit yes it was my 'fault' to leave suggesting a barbecue until that morning. But I paid her a compliment and instead of accepting it gracefully and the way I paid it and said 'Thank-you! But the milk needs 12 hours to separate and there wasnt time' she came bad with a plain 'its your fault'. 

I wasnt putting 'blame' at anyones door simply saying hers was better.

Personal - yes I have also put up a wall....to protect myself. 
I know this is the mensclubhouse and not sex in marriage but as Zouz recognises, because my wife has rejected my affection/love so often and for so long and been hurt so often, yes I now live behind the protection of a wall.

I can't leave now because the 'load' is too big. When the chilren leave and it lightens I'll be off.

In the meantime I spend more time on TAM than perhaps I should. I see it as somewhere I can vent where no one really knows who I am, somewhere to 'meet' people in the same position (both men and women), to write posts that I hope may help people or atleast make them smile....

I was a bit surprised and annoyed that I paid my wife a compliment in good faith and instead of taking it at face value she threw it back saying the reason she hadn't made any was becaue *I* hadn't given her enough warning.
My wife IS selfish...all that she has ever wanted in this marriage was for HER needs to be met.
As I have mentioned in Sex in M - when I used to ask her to massage my neck the response was 'only if you then do my back'.
Never a free lunch with her!

Anyway....thanks for hearing me out guys and gals!


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Askari ,

With this big load we have and we don't want to leave ;
we have zero chance ,you cab be in a better position if you give services to her and then get some of what you want .

Mine used to get her services done and bluff even , my head hurts , My stomach ache , My hands stiff !:scratchhead:
:rofl:

if it works ,you will feel as a sex slave but better than nothing .

The problem is that we are sincere , keep your moral high ; and as long as you are in the comb , try to minimize expenses.

For those married or in realationship and who look at others as sinfull and cheaters for smalest things ; I tell them stay in a sexless marriage ( if you HD) and show me your face in 10 days ; if you are able to behave normally , you are not HD , you are LD or Asexual .


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

All this is temporary , when the load is lighter , you will not be able to tolerate anymore.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

askari said:


> EleG - I admit yes it was my 'fault' to leave suggesting a barbecue until that morning. But I paid her a compliment and instead of accepting it gracefully and the way I paid it and said 'Thank-you! But the milk needs 12 hours to separate and there wasnt time' she came bad with a plain 'its your fault'.
> 
> I wasnt putting 'blame' at anyones door simply saying hers was better.
> 
> ...


Just to add a different perspective.

What you heard coming out of your mouth was a genuine compliment. You knew your intentions were good. However, she may have "heard" it differently. To her it could have sounded like this reading between the lines;

Why didn't you make yours?? People would have raved over yours and not some store bought. Maybe she thinks you like getting kudos from friends on her cooking, and now you wouldn't. She was definitely defensive, but I believe it's because she read into what you were saying!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Its the voice of resentment... Yes, shes saying truth, but she could have said it without it being laced with resentment. Just reveals there are unresolved hurts under the surface.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

What you think is a compliment about her skills she probably hears as a complaint that she didn't make a dish you wanted. The same way you hear her statement as a dig.

Your marriage isn't in a good place so you are both defensive. When my marriage wasn't in a good place I heard "compliments" from my husband as jabs at me as well. Until the marriage is healed this will only get worse.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Learn how to make it yourself or find the best possible store bought or have a local chef make it and pay him/her. Leave her out of that part and ask her to just enjoy herself while you take care of things. She may even decide to leave for a while during prep time. Make it a fun time for you and the children. If she wants to be a stick in the mud, that's her privilege. She could have just told you she couldn't do it in the time allotted. That would have been simple. She wanted to prove something.


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## IWantGreatMarriage (May 20, 2014)

askari said:


> O
> 
> I said: 'You know, yours is SOOOOO much better than this'
> !


I heard "You could have made this yourself instead of buying from the store". Am sure your wife heard same thing and definitely not a compliment


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

Sometimes we have to choose or phrase our words carefully. She was probably already peeved that she found out last minute. I bet if you said," I'm sorry I didn't tell you sooner, I'm kicking myself bc your homemade mix tastes so much better"--she would have heard that as a compliment!


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

askari said:


> I said: 'You know, yours is SOOOOO much better than this'
> Her reply: 'Its your fault because you didn't give me enough time to make it'.


It really sounds to me like you are both speaking from a 'fortified position' here. 

Would it have softened her defensive posture to simply say something like, "Believe me; I'm kicking myself now about that." --Not in an abject way, but with a smile, a hug and a touch of humor?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I hear what you are saying re what I said and what she heard.

I try to be fair in life; if I think someone needs complimenting I will compliment....
If I get shoddy and poor service from someone etc I will also say something. (more so in 'business' than marriage)...
We are all generally quick to criticise and slow to compliment. I try to be equal.

I probably do 95% of the cooking in the house anyway...I spent three years training as a chef many moons ago and actually enjoy it.
However, there are things I just can't do....bake cakes and make sour cream/chive dips! My wife is far better at baking than I am...I accept it and admit it.

Pity she took my compliment the wrong way. 

She finds it very difficult to put her hands up to something...

'Did you manage to pay the electricity bill today?'
'No'
'How come?'
'Because you didn't leave me the money'
....she could have written a cheque (I'm British!!) or got cash from the ATM...?? We have a joint a/c
Always somebody elses fault....never 'Oh bollocks. Sorry I completely forgot, I'll do it first thing tomorrow'


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You're getting into a cycle of resentful communication with her. You say "yours is better," she hears "why didn't you make yours?!" and gets defensive, you in turn take the defensiveness and get resentful about that. You "blow off steam" on a message board, but that's not really what you're doing, you're not "blowing off steam," you're firming up your resentment -- "Why is she acting so difficult?! Woe is me!" Then your next interaction has the layers of tension from the prior interactions, and it never improves.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The reason for walls is insecurity. 

Insecure people don't relax. They are sense. Fun is misery to them. They feed off misery... And so on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IWantGreatMarriage said:


> I heard "You could have made this yourself instead of buying from the store". Am sure your wife heard same thing and definitely not a compliment


This is what I heard too. 

If someone said it to me like that, I would think they were complaining that I did not make it. It does not sound like a compliment at all.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

OK...all points taken. I can understand that due to the (not very good) place we are in our marriage I gave her a genuine compliment that she saw as an insult and I then got the hump because I felt as if she threw it back in my face.

There are many issues in our marriage....based on, I believe, sexual incompatibility. She has never really been interested in sex and isn't interested that I am.

We've been to MC (she stopped going when sex started to be discussed)...I still go. 
The MC has asked me why I constantly seek re-affirmation that my wife is not 'on this planet'....eg. Why ask her to pay the electricity bill when you know she won't do it?
Why ask her to put the oven on at 6pm when you know she will forget then you get angry?
I ask her to do things that deep down I know she won't do so that I am constantly re-affirming that she is not capable.

I need to learn not to rise to her passive aggression and simply not ask her to do things I know she won't do = I won't build up a head of steam and end up coming on here!

Letting off steam in an anon environment is often a great help....sometimes you get told things you don't like but in a supportive manner...
There is no question that friends suspect that our marriage isn't good - state of marriages is often discussed between close male friends, I am no exception. But friends often tell you what you want to hear...on TAM posters have nothing to 'lose' so often tell you as it is....


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

askari ,

The good thing about TAM is that you say and hear things that will never be addressed face to face in reality ; because the worst that can happen is that you close your account and escape ...

This a better learning curve than exposing sometimes a level of detail to even close people ; I have never been able to talk about details of sexual experience with my wife even to closest friends ;I will not tell my dearest friend that when she disgust touching my part ; All what I could say for example is that she does only vanilla.

exposing that level of embarrassing details is very important ; because you get different opinion about it , and one do self assessment when critisized.

TAM gave me a lot in less than a year ; I was that closed person that is shy to speak to anyone about my issues ;


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

I reached a point where I was convincing my self that maybe my wife is right ; vanilla few times every maybe a half year is normal !

when getting so many opinion about things , I am more convinced now about principles , an , no it is not Okey .

At the same time ; due to social, cultural, religious pressures ; not all sex plays are suitable , so I take the ones that suits me and my partner ; for instance some could go for open marriage , anal , etc and consider them nornal ; for me I know what suits me by now ; and I know I am not a demanding person ... 

before coming to TAM , I reached a point where I was abused to an extent to believe even oral is bad ...

I am a better person now , though it is the worst ever situation , we reached a point where we even don't talk to each other at all; we leave messages for urgent issues...

it seems even MC in your case didn't work ; I believe me and you amigo are on same ship ; I have started the process which will eventually lead to divorce , might take a year or ten years , but I am sure that I am out .

I have now a new seperate life ; not cheating yet ; for a simple reason , the vow is now for my family , not her .

my new life is involving sports, hiking , fishing , hunting , and som many other things ; avoiding alcohols to once every couple of weeks , because I have tendancy now .

Financially , I am making a clear sharp borders ; paying all expenses, and so on ; but no more burdens even if it is a piece of furniture that is for kids that she likes but they don't need or like ; the same piece of furniture will become my priority if they ask for it !

It will be a tough way , still avoiding cheating , I hope I will succeed; the right time is that when all my kids understand at least the issue ;my eldest came one time to me gave a hug seeing her mom rage and asked me ; dad why don't you divorce the b1itch !


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I do hope you put her in her place about the raging, Zouz.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

askari said:


> OK...all points taken. I can understand that due to the (not very good) place we are in our marriage I gave her a genuine compliment that she saw as an insult and I then got the hump because I felt as if she threw it back in my face.
> 
> There are many issues in our marriage....based on, I believe, sexual incompatibility. She has never really been interested in sex and isn't interested that I am.
> 
> ...


Yes, you were the voice of reason for me in another thread (afraid but not physically afraid of my hub). I had to snicker when you said you have to remind your wife to turn the oven on or pay a bill. I do all things domestic (even finances)so that would be so foreign to me!


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I do hope you put her in her place about the raging, Zouz.


last time she paid a high price , we visited after the rage her mom as it was planned , i took the kids to buy few things , then we headed home ;without kids knowing about it , I then called her mom and told her keep your daughter tonight at your place , she is raging like a ....
we had a party at home with neighbors ; nobody even cared were she is.


the next day she came by Taxi , calm ...

hope she learned a lesson ; if she doesn't I will make sure that she will come back on her feet .

I can accept anything , but not direspecting me in front of my kids .

The eldest knew what happened(16) ... and was proud of me because she got her punishment without noise ...


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Children aren't stupid. The older they get the more they start to actually understand....its not just a question of Mummy ignoring Daddy (or vice versa) because they are being silly....they start to see things and understand them.

Hell...all dad asked her to do was pay the electricity bill and she couldn't even do that...Jeez

I know I have a rapport with my two children that my wife doesn't have...the three of us can look at something and just start laughing because we are on the same wavelength whilst my wife hasn't a clue.

Sometime we all need to be sent a message that we have over stepped the 'line'. Zouz telling his mother in law to keep her daughter that night whilst he and the children went out and had fun - probably far more fun than they would have done had she been there - sent his wife a clear message.
Whether she takes it on board of course is another matter altogether.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I do hope you put her in her place about the raging, Zouz.



By raging worse in response . That was about as good a behavior modification technique as it gets. 

Mutual Assured Destruction in marital terms.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

john117 said:


> By raging worse in response . That was about as good a behavior modification technique as it gets.
> 
> Mutual Assured Destruction in marital terms.


Agree.. mutual rage is BAD


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Agree.. mutual rage is BAD



But quite effective in at least shutting down raging behavior


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

john117 said:


> But quite effective in at least shutting down raging behavior


Except in my house... lol

The escalation had no ceiling...


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I also have never found trying to out-rage the other half to be effective, it only seems to spur a one-upping contest. Calm and firm statements that you're not going to tolerate it and not going to continue the discussion further until they speak to you more respectfully can work better if done right.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

My most effective stance has been a very calm intent drum beating of my truth. I get very calm, direct, assertive, repetitive and I don't move from that spot.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I also have never found trying to out-rage the other half to be effective, it only seems to spur a one-upping contest. Calm and firm statements that you're not going to tolerate it and not going to continue the discussion further until they speak to you more respectfully can work better if done right.



If you're dealing with BPD people calm and firm doesn't work. Not with my BPD at least.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Calm firm repetitive?


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Askari.

I'll accept that you intended your comment as a compliment. However,, it's not a compliment to somebody predisposed to seeing it otherwise.

Lesson - When things are less than fine and dandy,, don't be dishing out ambiguity cuz it'll turn around and bite ya!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

john117 said:


> If you're dealing with BPD people calm and firm doesn't work. Not with my BPD at least.


In general, raging at a BPDer begets more rage and they go nuclear. Your wife is probably a rare exception.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> In general, raging at a BPDer begets more rage and they go nuclear. Your wife is probably a rare exception.



I know 

The key is to go a bit more nuclear than they can. Eventually they wear out... Or at least my sample size of one did.

A bit of good cop bad cop also worked for me intermixed with the above...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Calm firm repetitive?



Not against rage repetitive...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

john117 said:


> Not against rage repetitive...


Hmmm. Interesting. I did have one moment last fall where mt H was arguing with me so intensly and for several days that I finaly blew. He stayed away for a week.We haven't had a blow up since, which is a record for us . It was a severe lack of gratitude and disrespect on his part. 

Every once in a while you have to remind them to respect. I have to do the same with my horse Sherman. He will slowly get bossy and I have to go after him hard when its too much to reset the respect.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

If someone is going to behave like a child then they deserve to be treated like one.

Zouz made a stand basically telling his wife that if she was going to behave like that and 'spoil' the equirilibrium of the family then she can stay with her mother.
Just as you tell a miscreant child to stay in their room.

Its firm and to the point. 

I wish I had the balls to be that firm with my wife.

Our MC told me (and my wife herself) that she 'checks out' of life. The lights are on but there is no one in. Marriage/life doesn't just happen, both need to be worked on to make them happen.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

When a smart BPDer rage ;he/she knows for sure and show it clearly that even a deal breaker is nothing for them ;even a divorce will not shake them ;tried for years to act calmly to avoid triggering her sense of insecurity ; but at the end the calmer I am the more disrespectful she is .

isolating her is the best option because she is harneful to her surrounding .

Yesterday My lovely eldest D had a piano concert ; the days before it she was trying to practice an hour or two a day at home ; but sweet wife was raging that piano is disturbing her ; I took her to practice on stage for three days instead ; when the concert was succesful DW was braging in front of others that her being tolerant in hearing the practices gave a result !

I was looking at her eyes ; felt not even a single sense of guilt ; my daughter was brave to say :MOM dad took me for three days to practice ...

of course she couldn't rage at that time ; while we were stepping in the car ; i took her purse aside and whispered in my wife ear : if you attack our daughter you will go home on your foot ; she must have understood the clear message ; she shut down completely .

She hates me , oh yea, but hadn't I done this ; I would have spent couple of days wiping my daughter tears ...

Amazingly , I have never ever seen my wife crying , nor anybody else !


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

BL , 
Iam not sure if you Hub is BPD or not ; but I still advise if you haven't done so that you to use both your charm as well as your perseverance ;this will make a difference to identify if your HUB is a BPD or just Anger management issues.

try one thing : for a month try to be nice to him , a lot of talking , charm , when he gets angry , before exploding just approach him with a sensual act ; be nice to him at that time , and when anger is lower , talk effectively that you having a different opinion doesn't mean disrespect to him ...

At the same time , tell him that he needs to work on his anger ; and that you will support him ; educate him that it is normal to rage softly (1) ; but he should calm shortly .

try,and try and try , for one month , if your husband changes he is not BPD , I tried for years ! not a month ....that's why I will no longer try .


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Askari , 
'checks out' of life ?
do you mean she threatened to suicide , or just 'checks out' of emotional life?

Does she cry or express?

you have the balls, but you are still acting as a gentlemen maybe ; and the deal breakers and losses for you are higher that for her .

before reaching this stage , how was she , expressing kind of person (other than nagging ) ; was she outgoing to MC and opened up ?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

'Checks out' - just detaches from day to day life. Its as if she is elsewhere. Doesn't see that she needs to do things to make things happen....eg. milk doesn't just appear in the fridge, food doesn't just appar on the table, electricity bills don't pay themselves etc.

No, she has no emotion atall....doesn't cry, doesn't fall about laughing at something etc


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## IWantGreatMarriage (May 20, 2014)

John Lee said:


> I also have never found trying to out-rage the other half to be effective, it only seems to spur a one-upping contest. Calm and firm statements that you're not going to tolerate it and not going to continue the discussion further until they speak to you more respectfully can work better if done right.


I have once managed to out rage someone. Not a spouse though.
I once had a housemate that was so difficult to live with. She shouts at me and the other girl so loud for no real reason at all. Most times we just ignore her and go up to our rooms, mostly because she was much older than both of us.
This once day, I came back from school, tired and hungry and needed a nap before going for a night shift. Was making a quick lunch when she started again with shouting that my cooking was disturbing her. Oh my, I have never seen myself crazier. I shouted back at her and she was shocked, she said she will call the police that I was abusing her, I gave her my phone. And begged to call so that everything will be settled that day. She went in and locked her door. That was the very last day she shouted at any of us (at least while am around) till I moved out.
Very silly woman. I hate bullies!!!


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

askari said:


> 'Checks out' - just detaches from day to day life. Its as if she is elsewhere. Doesn't see that she needs to do things to make things happen....eg. milk doesn't just appear in the fridge, food doesn't just appar on the table, electricity bills don't pay themselves etc.
> 
> No, she has no emotion atall....doesn't cry, doesn't fall about laughing at something etc



If you were not an abuser since beginning nor a kind of guy who is never appreciate things ( no offense , just analyzing);then the only explanation I find is that on top of any social/religious factor your wife has a trauma in her life that makes her feeling insecure no matter how much efforts close people helps; 

amazingly she can cope great in her own work or social group where no intimacy or feelings are required; my wife's friends sees her as a great person .

it took me 15 years to realize all this and acknowledge that she could be mean only to the close people in her family only ; I recall when she was threatening one day our daughter not to hit back a child who hit her just because this will ruin the image of her !


some trauma in your wife's life makes her feel that should never give emotions ; it is bad to have / show emotions because she will get hurt if she does.

amazingly , also , this kind of Borderline people refuse any help ; it is much more difficult that Bipolar Disorder because , meds in Bipolar case can help.

They even think black/white , deal breakers means nothing to them ; you can only reach sometimes to them just because you agree to their thinking ;disagree once and you fall down from their view from a prince to a jerk.

They can give materialistic things easily ;but ask them a favor they will just call someone to do it for you !

Now mine is initiating ( by just showing to me her face while sleeping !, usually she makes sure to turn back).

few questions :

does she work ?

is she religious ?

Have you ever tried to be an angel for a month or two and saw any difference ?


Mine claim to be religious , raged when I wanted to have a beer at house ; yet I have never seen her praying .


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Zouz,  I am sugary sweet to my H all the time. 

We are doing great these days. So I agree with you it takes a blend of approaches and timed well


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Zouz said:


> If you were not an abuser since beginning nor a kind of guy who is never appreciate things ( no offense , just analyzing);then the only explanation I find is that on top of any social/religious factor your wife has a trauma in her life that makes her feeling insecure no matter how much efforts close people helps;
> 
> *amazingly she can cope great in her own work or social group where no intimacy or feelings are required; my wife's friends sees her as a great person .*
> it took me 15 years to realize all this and acknowledge that she could be mean only to the close people in her family only ; I recall when she was threatening one day our daughter not to hit back a child who hit her just because this will ruin the image of her !
> ...


Zouz....you've hit the nail on the head! My wife doesn't really have 'friends' she has aquaintances. I have a make friend who I have know for 30+ years...I guess he is my 'best friend'. He knows far more about me than anyone as I do him. We've helped each other when we've fallen (blind drunk!) etc and we know that whatever we say to each other is in total confidence.

My wife doesnt have that....she just doesnt seem to let anyone get close to her...as if she has put barriers up.

One of her work colleagues who she gets on with suggested they went out for a drink after work...my wife said declined saying she had a previous commitment...she didn't. She just didnt want to go out....because she doesn't want to let anyone get too 'close' to her.

You mention emotional trauma....I thought the same too....I asked her many years ago if there was 'something'....no nothing.
I also mentioned it to our MC who also did a bit of gentle 'digging'....nothing.

I know I go on about her etc etc....Yes I resent her for what she has denied me....if there had been a 'trauma' in her life that caused her to not to show emotions or let people get close to her, it might not change my future plans (leaving) but it would certainly make me more understanding and sympathetic towards her.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

did she loose her mom or dad at age 7-12 ?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Nope....both are still alive, fit and healthy...as is her sister


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm surprised you are still playing "happy families", to be honest... we live separate lives... I'm still here and we interact, we are civil to each other, but asking her to do stuff together? You must be joking...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Cycling and the occasional sex are about all we have in common


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

similar here ,recycling ( throwing each other objects and belonging ) is still a common activity !
she threw my favorite Tshirt (it has a spot) , I threw her USB in sink that had 132 indian episodes of a series


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> Cycling and the occasional sex are about all we have in common


occasional sex is what we have in common... not sure I could get my wife on a bike...


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Two nuns cycling down a cobbled street, one says.....'ummmm I've never come this way before....'


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Sounds like a fundamental disconnect in communication, if your compliments are being interpreted as complaints. You've fallen into a trap where no matter what you say, she's going to look at it through negative, grey-coloured glasses and interpret it as a complaint.

You say "your dip is better than this storebought stuff" and what you mean is "your dip is awesome," but what she hears is "you should have made your good dip instead of buying some."

So if you want to make genuine compliments, you have to word them very very carefully to get them through her negative perception of you, and it may not even be possible then.

I vividly remember, as my marriage was breaking down, one of my ex's main expressed issues was that I was always critical and negative. I didn't think so, but I was trying to be more conscious of the words that came out of my mouth and how they may be perceived.

One evening, my ex was in charge of dinner (I usually did the cooking too) as I had to work late. When I got home, it smelled great, but not like anything I knew we had ingredients for. I carefully said "that smells delicious, what is it?" and my ex went off the rails "can't I cook something nice for my family without all this interrogation??"

Sometimes you get to a point of no return where you can't win anymore. The other person expects negatives, so that's all they see.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

askari said:


> I said: 'You know, yours is SOOOOO much better than this'
> Her reply: 'Its your fault because you didn't give me enough time to make it'.


Him: Okay darling...just how much time WOULD you need to make it, because it just blows the doors off of this stuff.

Her: Uhmm...24 hours.

Him: Alright dear. I will try to give you advanced noticed because yours is really light years better than the storebought stuff. I didnt know it took so long otherwise I would have known that you couldnt do it in time. 
Next time I will know better. (give her a kiss while clearing the dinner dishes)

You two are in the same cycle my ex and I got into. She would make huge assumptions about my possible reactions and react accordingly...which was really confusing to me because she never actually ASKED.

I suggest "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz.
A beautiful, easily read book about assumptions and perceptions.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

askari said:


> Two nuns cycling down a cobbled street, one says.....'ummmm I've never come this way before....'


http://youtu.be/2E9r0EJH3zM?t=2m34s


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

When a fight is about the dip...

It's never about the dip.

What was she really saying?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

On the very rare occasion that my wife does cook she always takes the easy way out....opens a tin or a packet.

Our children hate it when she cooks for them because its pasta and a sauce out of a jar or tin. 
She can make excellent cakes...but opts to buy either ready made ones or make from a packet.

We live in a country were we have an abundance of fresh produce all year round....anything imported (cake mixes, tinned sauces etc) are very expensive.

My wife is just fundementally lazy. Although my comment re her dip being far better than the one she bought was fair....she might well have taken it as a dig at her being lazy. Which she is.

She made a Betty Crocker chocolate sponge over the weekend. It wasn't anything special...I told her that her chocolate sponge was infinitely better and I don't understand why she spends three times as much on an imported mix.
Her reply....'I couldn't be bothered'.

Making a cake is not exactly difficult...flour, baking powder, cocoa powder, fat and an egg. Whizz whizz whizz. Done.


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

askari said:


> On the very rare occasion that my wife does cook she always takes the easy way out....opens a tin or a packet.
> 
> Our children hate it when she cooks for them because its pasta and a sauce out of a jar or tin.
> She can make excellent cakes...but opts to buy either ready made ones or make from a packet.
> ...


The mistake that I did in my previous marriage is that I didn't put the wife in her place. You writings above reminds me of my ex-wife. I think wife should be mindful of the house, kids, food on table, etc. Pretty much the way I would too (but my doing without her participation will put the ship out of balance).

Is there a way in which you can start steering your marriage in that direction (putting her in her place)? I think the only problem is, when you start doing that, then are you willing to risk losing the marriage? (This may indeed be the real question here).


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I have no doubt that our marriage will come to an end...I am planning on going when the children have flown the nest which will be in 4-5 years time.

Being a wife/husband/mother/father carries responsibilities. As a spouse the responsibilities include doing your 'share'...If you offer to pay the electricity bill (for example) then do it.
If you completely forget and you get disconnected don't try to blame it on the dog etc, put your hand up and admit it. We are all human.
However, if it happens 2-3-4 times then expect your partener to be annoyed and say 'I'll do it then'.
Be conscious and aware of the others needs, including sexual.

As a parent, it is up to you to look after your children. Make sure they get good, nourishing food, exercise, do fun things, get to school on time etc

Making a family unit function requires responsibilities...sometimes you have to do things you might not like doing but you have to do them.
Its not all about club membership, pedicures, skiing holidays, beach holidays, BMW convertibles.

My wife is just lazy. She knows if she offers to open a packet of ready made macaroni cheese then I will jump in and do something proper...if she forgets to pay the electricity bill then she knows I will do it...etc. So she gets to have an easy life. Who is the stupid one here?.....Yup...ME!

Maybe there are people in this life who are just freeloaders and who think this world owes them a living?


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