# To have children or not to have children



## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

I joined this forum because I have been having this issue nag at me since I got married. My husband and I are both in our early 30's working on advanced degrees and careers so between the both of us, we don't feel ready for children yet. On the other hand, all my friends and family are pressuring me, telling me that I should have kids soon because I'm getting too old, etc. It is getting to the point where I am starting to feel depressed that I will never have children or that we would just be better off planning a future without children. My grandmother was 42 when she had my mother so I know it is possible but I also know it can be risky.

Has anyone here ever gone through this or is living their life childless?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You can have mine for week to try it out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> You can have mine for week to try it out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha That is the other thing, I don't know if I want to deal with all that but everyone makes it seem like if you don't do it you aren't a real woman or you are missing out on the greatest thing in life.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

misery loves company?

Ignore them and trust what you and your husband want
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Very personal decision that only you and your husband can make.

Our kids are the best thing that ever happened to my wife and I. Can't imagine what life would be without them. Can't imagine how we would be spending our time and money because now everything we do is centered around them. We started our family when I was 28.

Looking forward to when then move out and are on their own. They should be on their own by the time I am 53 or so. Most of the looking forward is not about having them gone, but more to seeing what they accomplish, seeing grandchildren, etc.

That is our story, but everyone writes their own. I am sure there are plenty of stories where people have kids later or earlier and all is good. Or couples that have had a great life without having children. 

Don't let your family or friends pressure you into doing anything. This a personal decision between you and your husband.


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## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

Thank you, I was starting to feel like I was a lunatic for not having any children at my age. ha


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

MNM said:


> haha That is the other thing, I don't know if I want to deal with all that but everyone makes it seem like if you don't do it you aren't a real woman or you are missing out on the greatest thing in life.


Do not buy into that. Kids are you and your H's decision and yours alone. I love my kids dearly but they change your life like nothing else can. Good and bad. It's like every other relationship in life, there are parts about them you love and other parts not so much. The major difference is as a parent, if you are a decent person, this is the one relationship you can never ever walk away from. You're kids are yours -at least until they're an adult and in reality even beyond that. Spouses can walk away, even kids can walk away from parents; but parents can never walk away from their children - they are with you until the end. 

Children are wonderful (mostly) but the do come with the consequence that your life is no longer all about you. Once you have them you can't change your mind.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

BTW - my wife and I had our first when I was 31, she 30 after we had been married 5 years. We just had our second while I was 38 and my wife 36. No harm in waiting a bit. I will say that before we had our first I had let it be known that if anyone else in town asked me when we were "going to get started" I was going to punch them in the nose. People are obnoxious if you're married and don't have kids - I think they're jealous to some extent of the freedom.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Pressure from peers/family is the exact WRONG reason to have a kid. 

We are childless by choice and plan on remaining that way.

Honestly? Before I clicked on the thread, my knee jerk reaction was "if you're wondering whether or not to have children, you probably shouldn't." It sounds like you and your husband already have full plates to me... if having a child right now would derail your career or finishing your degree... I certainly don't see the benefit. Tell your interfering friends/family to kindly butt out next time they hint at you.


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## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Pressure from peers/family is the exact WRONG reason to have a kid.
> 
> We are childless by choice and plan on remaining that way.
> 
> Honestly? Before I clicked on the thread, my knee jerk reaction was "if you're wondering whether or not to have children, you probably shouldn't." It sounds like you and your husband already have full plates to me... if having a child right now would derail your career or finishing your degree... I certainly don't see the benefit. Tell your interfering friends/family to kindly butt out next time they hint at you.


Thanks, I have already explained, IN DETAIL, to my mother what we want and why. I'm her first child so she wants grand-kids now that she is pushing 50. I completely understand that but she was 17 when she had me and I had to witness the hardship she went through with a crumbling, abusive marriage. We were homeless living in a car my first year of life following my dad from job to job. I know what the consequences are of having children when you aren't ready. I guess I turned out alright, but I don't want to go through what she did and I want a better life for my future children. If I had to quit school right now to have kids, I would not be happy, my husband would feel the strain and I don't want our marriage to endure that.

And you are right, too, that if I think about it so much then perhaps I shouldn't have kids. I don't feel this overwhelming desire to be a mother. I like kids and sometimes wonder what it would be like to have one of my own but I don't feel like my purpose in life is to have them. I am pretty sure my husband feels the same. Except for him, he is an only child and the only boy in his family so everyone expect him to have boys. HAHA! What a crazy, messed up world we live in.




sigma1299 said:


> BTW - my wife and I had our first when I was 31, she 30 after we had been married 5 years. We just had our second while I was 38 and my wife 36. No harm in waiting a bit. I will say that before we had our first I had let it be known that if anyone else in town asked me when we were "going to get started" I was going to punch them in the nose. People are obnoxious if you're married and don't have kids - I think they're jealous to some extent of the freedom.


Thanks Sigma. I also love the lines about, oh your marriage won't be the same after kids, or Enjoy your marriage while it lasts because once kids are in the picture it goes downhill. haha


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

MNM said:


> Thanks Sigma. I also love the lines about, oh your marriage won't be the same after kids, or Enjoy your marriage while it lasts because once kids are in the picture it goes downhill. haha


The won't be the same part is 100% true. As for the downhill - I must preface this with 1. that I am very happily married and 2. that I love my kids dealy - do a little reading over in the infidelity section and notice how many affairs are either during a pregnancy or immediately after - myself included. Kids stress a marriage even when it's planned, and it's what everyone wants.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

If you don't want children then that is purely you and your husbands choice. there is nothing wrong with not wanting kids.

Having a child is hard (I am not going to lie) They cost money to raise. Raising a child is also the hardest job you can ever have. 

I had my first when i was 3 months away from my 16th birthday. I had my 2nd when i was almost 31. Big difference in parenting skills. Granted I did have more energy when i was 15. 

You should't be forced by any one to have a child, you have a child because your life wouldn't be complete with out one.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Sounds like you have the right attitude- your own experiences have shown you the perils that could happen if you're not ready... obviously your marriage is more important to you than a supposed biological clock (or your mom's supposed... uh... grandmotherlogical clock). 

My old lady feels exactly the same way re: being a mom... she just feels no need to. Altho' I think we'd be pretty good parents if need be... but I must admit that I also feel no burning need to procreate. Frankly, if we ever do have a child, it's very likely that we would adopt. 

I agree that married couples with children might be kind of nosy/pushy about the subject because they're a little jealous, deep down. Enjoy your freedom with your hubby and tell everyone else to get bent.

Also? You belong to an elite club- DINK- Double Income, No Kids


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think it is rude for people to be telling couples that they should have children. 

But I don't think that everyone who does this, does it because they are jealous of people without children. If I was to tell someone that they should have kids, it would be because I like having kids. It is a positive experience for me.


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Most of the parents of my daughter's friends had their daughters after age 35. One couple was well into their forties. Quit listening to what others are saying. You need to do what is best for the two of you. And it's not as urgent as it seems. Maybe you will. Maybe you won't. It is you and your husband's decision. Good luck.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

MNM said:


> all my friends and family are pressuring me, telling me that I should have kids soon because I'm getting too old


Smile sweetly, thank them for their interest, and tell them if you want their opinions, you will gladly solicit them ... BTW, you are not too old by a long shot!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I think people need to go with "peace" in their hearts in these matters. Pray about it, seek advice, weigh the pros and cons.

Now days more & more women are having babies later, so you surely won't be alone, but I think it would be wise to take an account of your family history as well -you did mention an Aunt at 42 -no problems -wonderful ! So no thyroid problems that can creep up, diabetic problems, etc. I had a girlfriend who waited till 40, then she got Graves Disease, a thyroid condition & couldn't get off the meds so she missed her opportunity. 

I am someone who wanted kids terribly and I had the desire to have them as young as possible for a few reasons....basically I am a worry wort, and for me, the LESS risks and the more time I had to have them "appealed to me" a great deal, I would have been extremely stressed out had I waited till later in life to attempt conception-feeling what if it didn't work!? Plus even the higher rate at Down syndrom, all of these factors, but that is "just me". I wanted to give myself and the kids the least risks that possibly could be...and the time. 

And since I had infertility issues , even in my 20's for over 6 yrs of trying -with no results, I know what a GIFT conception is -it doesn't always happen for everyone as we plan. Hopefully it will, but there is not guarentees in this life.

I would be of the camp -if I had a daughter in your situation, if she KNEW she wanted children (no and if or buts) , to suggest she tries while she is younger. That is just my opionion.


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## misticli (Oct 28, 2011)

This is a hard topic that my husband and I can relate to. When people ask me I say "I am not having children", which usually shuts them up right away.

I feel that way today, but who knows how I will feel tomorrow. Its our choice to make and other people can butt out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Quite frankly, I think people these days put too much emphasis on children being "the greatest thing everrrrr". For god sake, it's just nature. It is not the end all-be all of living or life. Pregnancy kinda sucks and raising a child isn't always the greatest thing everrrr. They are people, not just children. If you don't want people, then don't have them. If you do, then do. But don't let anyone make you feel bad for not having people. There are plenty of people in this world who are having people. If you are content being people-less, then rock it and own that decision.

I had my 1st at 23 and my 2nd at 31. This time around is much better. I bet if you chew on this a few more years, you will come to a good decision and be ready for whatever you decide.

I really wish people would leave other people's uterus alone. I really don't understand why people get so offended that someone else doesn't want children. It's like when people would get offended that i didn't eat meat. What do they care that I don't eat meat? I never pushed my reasons on them...but for some reason, when people are different, it makes others question their choices and they don't like that.

Eff society and the "norms". Do what you want and enjoy life...whatever you decide.

LOL I said "people" a lot!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> You can have mine for week to try it out
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She can take all 3 of mine. But then again she might never want to ever have kids after just 1 night with them.


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## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I think this has gone a long way to easing my mind about it. It will happen when and IF it happens. haha

Mom asked me who was going to take care of me when I get old!! I wonder if I will regret not having children when I'm retired and don't have any grand kids to deal with. =P


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## LimboGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

MNM said:


> Thanks everyone, I think this has gone a long way to easing my mind about it. It will happen when and IF it happens. haha
> 
> Mom asked me who was going to take care of me when I get old!! I wonder if I will regret not having children when I'm retired and don't have any grand kids to deal with. =P


I guess you do have to think about not having grandchildren, too. But you should only have children if you both want children. If you enjoy being around children but don't want children, volunteer in something that involves them. Not having children doesn't mean not having them in your life someway. Just think about on what level you and your husband want children in your life. It's your life, do it your way.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Not everyone is cut out to have children. If you want to raise them right they require a lot of time and attention. Only you know if its right for you. Unfortunately, smart people like you and your husband are having less children and the ignorant people tend to have more then they can raise. Anyway, I have two teenage boys and love them more then anything. We waited until we were 30 and am glad we did because we needed time to mature. You may want to consider preserving some of your eggs if you want to wait into your 40's. We know a couple of women that hit menopause in their early 40's.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Just because you have children doesn't mean they'll take care of you in old age.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Just because you have children doesn't mean they'll take care of you in old age.


With children, old age seems to come quicker!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hunter_aussie (Nov 7, 2011)

Of course it is a personal decision. But these things for women seem to be fair game for society. Wait til you get pregnant then strangers will ask if you're breast feeding, giving you advice in the supermarket ... etc. Even though it is personal, people seem to think it's not.

And sometimes women feel the guilt and judgement from others. I learnt you can't please everybody, and after my first child I smiled politely at everybody who asked when the second one's coming along (fertility issues) and walked off. None of their business. 

If you're not ready for children, don't have them. They'll only end up with issues they don't need.

To me, my child is my natural joy, I don't know what I did with my time before. I think having children makes you become more in touch with your emotions, and the world is less about you. They are more important than you and you'd walk to the end of the earth and back for them. Not everyone feels this way, hence so many homeless and neglected children.

Maybe if in later years you change your mind and it's too late you can consider adoption. Or just continue your life as the two of you.

People can only make you feel guilty or inferior if you let them


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

My husband and I are in our 30s, no children, don't want any. The primary reason we don't want children is that we are very much in love and so happily married that we don't want to change the way our family is. But I've also never felt the desire to have them, they wouldn't fit in with our future plans, we can't afford them, we are very environmentalist and the single best thing an individual can do for the environment is not to have children, and we really, really like having so much time to ourselves to do whatever we want. 

It's Saturday 11:30am here and I'm still in bed and plan to stay here for a few more hours! Our house is decorated beautifully, there are no toys or primary colors, and we have fragile things everywhere (I collect ceramics), we do ONE load of laundry per week, we get in the car and come back 2 days later without a second thought, we never eat nasty child food like chicken fingers (cooking is my passion, so even if I had children, I wouldn't do that, if I'm honest), we love quiet - my husband comes home from work and takes an hour-long nap straightaway, that's his time for total peace and quiet, I can't remember a night in the past several YEARS that I've had fewer than 8 hours of sleep (except when flying), and usually closer to 9, we have an active social life and host c0cktail parties (LOL it filtered that) regularly as there are plenty of people in our life who don't have children (the ones who do, we don't see very often - this is a shame, but it's not that we don't invite them - they ALWAYS turn us down because they never seem to want to come over / go out, I've invited three sets of parents with small children to our Christmas party, we shall see if any of them turn up), we have sex all over the house at all ours of the day or night without a thought.... etc. 

This is the lifestyle that appeals to us. To other people, the childcentric lifestyle appeals more than this kind - you basically have to see which lifestyle appeals to YOU more and screw everyone else and their opinion.

I live in a pronatalist environment and get pressure from every direction, relatives, friends, colleagues, relative strangers, society as a whole. I get asked the most unbelievable questions. Luckily my husband doesn't get nearly the kind of pressure I do. 

I had an abortion in my mid-20s when my birth control failed. I would do it again if it failed again. I have no more interest in being pregnant than in raising a child, and while we do use birth control, no method is perfect (until I can convince a doctor to give me a tubal ligation, not easy when you don't have children, or a medical reason).

I believe that children deserve to be desperately wanted. I always have felt bad for children who were "accidents". My parents always made a point to say that I was very planned and wanted. I wish all children could be wanted, hoped for, planned for, prayed for, etc. I see no point in adding a child to the world who would not be wanted - for what? Why do that to someone?


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Interestingly all of the counselors I have talked with about my walk away wife ask why we didn't have kids (she couldn't from deformed womb), and elude to this might be a part of depression and her a reason for the walk away.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

That choice is only to be made by you and your husband. It's rude for others to have their opinions on this matter and it's none of their business.

On the other hand, I could not imagine life without my girls. They bring in so much love and keep me going day after day. I have very well behaved girls with very big hearts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

that_girl said:


> Just because you have children doesn't mean they'll take care of you in old age.


This is so true. I do not expect my children to do this, I despise the thought of being anyone's burden, it repulses me. I am very independent and would likely make an ogre patient. If I can't get around when I am old, I would be taking advanatge of any services to NOT bother my children. Easy to say now, but I know how I am, I don't like to "bother" people, I know when my children leave the nest, they will HAVE thier own busy lives to live & enjoy, their own families to support , that is hard enough . I will do anything to get something accomplished on my own, I doubt this will suddenly change as I get older. 

I truly do not feel my kids will owe me anything. I didn't have them for this reason. I would say I had them because I LOVE a big family, the chaos & challenges it brings.... but never so I will be taken care of in old age. An occasional visit from one here & there won't hurt of coarse, but *the memories of raising them & the sheer Joy we had is seriously worth the while for this Mom*. 

*I count it all Joy*. I feel it is me & their dad's repsonsibliity to give them a GOOD start in this life, so they can grow their own wings, and leave this nest. 

Makes me think of that classic book ...."*The Giving Tree*".... This words can be taken a variety of ways but many see the Parent -child dynamic in this...-the Unconditional Love that flows to the child...the endless giving -without ANY expectation at all in return.... Here is the story if anyone wants to take the time to hear it. Parents should be like that tree...and the tree was always *happy *-in it's GIVING. Near the end, it is a little sad, but this is the way it should be.


The Giving Tree




omega said:


> I believe that children deserve to be desperately wanted. I always have felt bad for children who were "accidents". My parents always made a point to say that I was very planned and wanted. I wish all children could be wanted, hoped for, planned for, prayed for, etc. I see no point in adding a child to the world who would not be wanted ?


 I so agree with this too !! :smthumbup::smthumbup: Every one of my kids KNOWS how badly they were wanted... Every one planned- we are talking down to the day -of likely conception.... every pregnancy test I wanted a positive, a cause for jumping up & down. 

It is funny sometimes, as one of our good friends remembers How I was back then when I couldn't conceive. I was so out of sorts , he has joked with my kids what a MONSTER I was cause I wanted them SO da** much. Each one only took 1 or 2 attempts at conception -but my 2nd took over 6 years of trying, many tests, and a surgery to get him ! His birthstone happens to be the most precious gem.... the Diamond. 

And all of that frustration, tears & trying, that all left in a heartbeat when they started coming, a new beautiful chapter in my life...enter cloud 9, I was THRILLED for every night feeding, every diaper change, I smiled through every C-section, I was happy putting on make up hours after these births in my hospital room, people were surprised I felt so good after surgery-but that was cause I was so da** happy! 

Having kids rejuvinated me, put LIFE in me! I never asked for anyone's help with my kids either, I didn't need it ! Every day was a BLESSING from Heaven to me, a gift. I even used cloth diapers & I enjoyed hanging them on the line outside in the fresh country air. 

I may complain about many things in this life, but NEVER that I had my children. Oh my Goodness NO. MY oldest has told me many times he is thankful for us as parents, the way we raised him, he had a wonderful growing up experience, my 14 yr old said to me a few weeks ago, he has it MADE , he wouldn't trade his home life with anyone. Well, there is one friend whose Mom cooks more foods they like! When I hear my kids talk like THAT, it floods me with happiness. 

.... Worth every moment of worry when they are sick, sitting by thier bedisde in the hospital when one had pnemonia, cleaning up their throw up on my new carpet, I'll never forget the night my 7 yr old THREW UP directly on the babys head -I just grabbed him & quickly showered him off! Waiting for their fevers to go down, waiting on x-ray results, every moment of irritation & frustration, every $1 spent, every doc visit that cut into our plans. I just wouldn't trade it for anything in this world. 

I am NOT the most attentive Mom on this planet, I don't get down on my knees & play as much as some Moms, but I have provided them with the atmosphere for little kings -a huge yard to run & play, paths to walk on, a variety of Power wheels to ride , We take them on Bike trails, I allow friends to spend the night endlessly, I got an extra rug rat right now - I think they are jumping on my bed ! (I do my share of yelling also, they mind me!) I allow them to be in most of the activities they want, we have built 2 story clubhouses for them, I throw huge birthday parites with candy hunts/ pinata, silly string, water bombs, a Huge water slide -getting the shaving cream out, we have outdoor movies at night in the summer , big Bonfire parties for their friends -with lots of food, I like to take extra kids to the movies, take a friend or 2 to amusement parks, water parks. I also take many pictures of all of this so they will always remember these wonderful times , the joy of their childrhood. I could go on & on --but I am sure nobody wants me too!! Ha ha 

I LOVE being a parent, it is in my heart & soul. One thing I know is this.. I will miss these days. 

So yeah, you either have this type of spirit within that drives you, or it may just be the case, it isn't meant to be, your gifts are somewhere else, just as important, but different. Nothing wrong with that!!! 

If anyone is looking for an alternative Birth control- non hormonal - no mess, no fuss, no pills and can stay in for up to 12 yrs at a time.... Birth Control

.... I highly recommend, my aunt had one in for many years BEFORE it was taken out & she had her one & only daugher at age 42. Some docs will give it to women who never had a child, it worked beautifully for her. It was my chosen choice also after my kids, instead of getting the tubes tied.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous, I had paragard, I agree, it's fantastic. I was so angry when my doctor insisted I have it removed (for reasons that I now think were unnecessary).

I agree with you about not being able to count on adult children for help when you're older. My parents, for example, had four children. One died. One lives on the opposite coast. One lives in Europe (they live in US). One lives only about 9 hours away but sees them once every 3-4 years because he's a workaholic. They are on their own. My dad is 75 and my mom basically takes care of him. No one takes care of her. They had FOUR and they are about as empty-nesters as you could ever be. At least if they hadn't had children, they might have had the time to cultivate friendships with other people nearby. As it is, they don't even have any friends there.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

omega said:


> we never eat nasty child food like chicken fingers (cooking is my passion, so even if I had children, I wouldn't do that, if I'm honest),


HA!! 

No one can resist the power of a chicken nugget, mac and cheese and a screaming toddler. It's like trying to resist the Jedi mind trick. My wife and I both love to cook to and we both folded like origami to the toddler diet.:scratchhead:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

omega said:


> At least if they hadn't had children, they might have had the time to cultivate friendships with other people nearby.


Now that is something I don't understand, I am not so into my kids that we don't see our friends, Nothing would stop our blessid time with FRIENDS..never. I am closer with my friends than any extended family. I encourage my kids to all make lasting freindships also, God I know how important that was for ME growing up, it was a saving grace -even. 

And when I have friends over my house, I DO NOT like if my kids hang near us, which they know better, I Shoooo them off, they need to "go play". I even get a little annoyed when the friends I have over have their kids hanging all over them, little girls seem to do this alot , but I can't very well tell them to shoooo, it's not my place. 

I also don't like when all parents do is talk about their kids, this bores me to tears, now granted I have been doing it alot the past week on here in a few threads about motherhood, but when I get with other moms or anyone in real life, I like to talk about more interesting things, forget the kids !! 

I get along very well with people without kids cause I am fully aware that life has a zillion more interesting things to talk about !!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I thought you were concerned about having mixed children. Now you are not sure if you even want kids in the first place??:scratchhead:

I am only trying to understand. Which is it?

My husband and I are a childfree couple. I only use "childfree" on here; most people in my real life would not understand what that means. Being "free" of children implies that they are not wanted or needed. "Childless" means that a person is lacking kids. See the difference?

We are very pleased to have found each other. Next month, my husband will be getting his vasectomy. It will be great not to have to worry about birth control. :smthumbup:

Bear in mind that not having children is not a popular choice. Most people will be nosy enough to impose their views on you. I have been called everything from a "baby hater" to "less than a woman." Now I just tell people that we cannot conceive, so that there are no intrusive questions or comments. 

My four nieces bring me joy, laughter and pride. However, it is great not to be shackled with the constant responsibility and interruption that children come with. 

Ask yourself what your reason for becoming a parent is. 

The only reason I would do so is to fit in, which is not a good reason to do _anything_. I lack the patience and strength to be a good parent. I am far too damaged from my abusive childhood to be a good mother and the idea of pregnancy and birth makes me queasy. I also love the independence and time for each other that would be stolen if we had a baby.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

> However, it is great not to be shackled with the constant responsibility and interruption that children come with.


This only happens if you let it. And shackled? lol It's not a prison sentence.


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## hunter_aussie (Nov 7, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> This only happens if you let it. And shackled? lol It's not a prison sentence.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

As much as women who don't have kids don't want to be harrassed, women that do have kids don't want to be thought of as 'their life is over' etc because for most of us, it's not!

I never thought of having children when I was younger, ever, babies were some sort of foreign object. Now I have a daughter and she is the most fun, most amazing, greatest thing I have ever done.

If you don't want to have kids because of your own choices that's fine. But please don't think that having a child changes your life in a negative way, because the positives are amazing! 

I will admit it's hard for me to comprehend why some people don't want children (apart from medical, emotional issues etc), more to do with money or their time - it's the ultimate sacrifice and changes your view and emotions on everything. To me it is the point of life. BUT that is my view!

My sadness is with those who desperately want children, but cannot conceive. I have seen friends break over it.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Sorry, but I have heard too many negative things from mothers. Not just my own mom, but others that I have known. It was not my intention to offend. 

Just as you are allowed to think that having a baby is the point of life, I am allowed to heed the words of mothers in my world. I often hear about how tired they are, how little their husbands help and how much they miss their old lives and freedom. "You are so lucky that you don't have kids! That's why you have a happy marriage!!" I hope that I have helped you to understand where my views come from. 

I used the term "shackled" because you can never get away from being a parent, especially if you are a mother. 

We have no right to tell each other what to _think_; I have no control over your mind. 

I am glad that being a mother has brought you happiness.:smthumbup: In the meantime, please respect that other women may seek joy in other ways. 

I love being an aunt; my nieces make me smile and feel like a carefree child again. I also like to give them back and go back to my selfish life.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Just today a FB friend posted that she can't wait to have an empty nest, and she is not ashamed to say that. (Her kids are 2 and 4.) She also said that they drive her to actual insanity and she can't wait til they're gone. She said (in jest, but she said it) that she wanted to kill herself just to end the insanity caused by her 2 yr old. At least once a week she posts something about how she is going to spend the "ONE HOUR this entire week that I have to myself". 

I grew up with this girl and when we were little, she dreamed of being a mom. She wanted three kids. Now she has two and can't wait to get rid of them. She also posts regularly about how her husband never helps and she "is a single parent ALL week until the weekend, every week". 100% of our interaction is on FB, I don't think she has time to talk on the phone. I've asked if she would like me to call her and she has said that she would but doesn't have time. So either she's avoiding me (I don't think she is) or she really honestly doesn't have time. So for now, all I know comes from FB.

I think there are a lot of women out there like my friend. Sometimes I think being a mother would be fun and fulfilling, but then I think about this friend and realize I don't want to put my marriage at risk over something like that.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Talk to your friend in a couple of years. I am guessing she will be telling you that her kids are the best thing that ever happened to her.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> Talk to your friend in a couple of years. I am guessing she will be telling you that her kids are the best thing that ever happened to her.


Well, yes, of course, if she didn't, she wouldn't have a normally functioning self-defense system, which everyone does. This is why we always remember the good stuff and block out the bad stuff. 

But is she truly a happy person? No. She is very unhappy, depressed, and apparently has suicidal ideation although I don't know if she means it. I know that when people talk about suicide you're not supposed to just ignore it. But she could just be looking for attention, I suppose

Her husband has been distancing himself from her at light speed. I can predict the next chapter, but I can't even get her on the phone to warn her to put at least 1% of her time into her marriage.


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## KI0159 (Apr 19, 2011)

Hi MNM

My husband and I feel the same. We've been together since were seventeen. We have never said we dont want children but just kept saying to ourselves that we had plenty of time to have kids, we're now 29 and still no kids 
I know people can still have kids when they're forty but we originally (when we were 21) thought we would have our first no later than 28 and then wait a few years and have another.
I know its not too late but we still feel we're not ready, time has just crept up on us and to be honest I think we both feel like saying we'll wait another couple years but at the same time feel we shouldnt:scratchhead:

I just thought at 29 if someone asked 'do I want kids' the answer would be a definite yes but......thats not happening, its not that easy.

I think our parents are trying hard not to say anything but I do notice how there stories seem to include the line...'when you have kids...'
My older brother just comes out with it and reminds me that my parents are both in their sixties just now


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Sorry, but I have heard too many negative things from mothers. Not just my own mom, but others that I have known. It was not my intention to offend.
> 
> Just as you are allowed to think that having a baby is the point of life, I am allowed to heed the words of mothers in my world. I often hear about how tired they are, how little their husbands help and how much they miss their old lives and freedom. "You are so lucky that you don't have kids! That's why you have a happy marriage!!" I hope that I have helped you to understand where my views come from.
> 
> ...


Yes, but since you aren't a mother, you cannot say it's "shackled" just like I cannot say you're missing something in your life. It's all about choices and one is not better than the other. I don't miss my freedom ...in fact, I have tons. I married a man who is helpful...again, my choice. Not all women make good choices in a mate and that is where the problem lies, not with the kids.

Also, you hear a lot of negatives because moms have to vent at times :rofl: Just like anyone you have to spend time with (whose personality you didn't choose), you're going to have issues! lollll I could go on and on about the kids in my class (negatives) because I'm dealing with 31 personalities that may or may not clash with mine. It doesn't mean I hate my job.

And a happy marriage isn't about having kids or not having kids. It's about making the marriage the first priority and many women/men don't do that, so they have a sad marriage.

My parents weren't shackled with me forever. They raised me to be independent and to figure things out on my own. I appreciate that about my upbringing. I can't remember a time after I moved out (when I was 19 for college) that I burdened my parents with my problems. That's just not how it's done in my family. 

I notice you get very defensive about women who enjoy being a mother. I am sorry if you get a lot of flack from mothers who think you are 'wasting your life' without children. That's not my view at all. You have a happy life because of your choices and us moms have a good life because of ours. Not really comparable, imo.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

omega said:


> Just today a FB friend posted that she can't wait to have an empty nest, and she is not ashamed to say that. (Her kids are 2 and 4.) She also said that they drive her to actual insanity and she can't wait til they're gone. She said (in jest, but she said it) that she wanted to kill herself just to end the insanity caused by her 2 yr old. At least once a week she posts something about how she is going to spend the "ONE HOUR this entire week that I have to myself".
> 
> I grew up with this girl and when we were little, she dreamed of being a mom. She wanted three kids. Now she has two and can't wait to get rid of them. She also posts regularly about how her husband never helps and she "is a single parent ALL week until the weekend, every week". 100% of our interaction is on FB, I don't think she has time to talk on the phone. I've asked if she would like me to call her and she has said that she would but doesn't have time. So either she's avoiding me (I don't think she is) or she really honestly doesn't have time. So for now, all I know comes from FB.
> 
> I think there are a lot of women out there like my friend. Sometimes I think being a mother would be fun and fulfilling, but then I think about this friend and realize I don't want to put my marriage at risk over something like that.


 I hear these stories and cannot fathom thinking this way. Life is life. Choices we make give us the life we have. Raising children isn't easy but life isn't easy. I think many women think they have to be supermom and that will drain any person to say they can't wait for their kids to move out (when the kids aren't even out of diapers yet).

I have been a mom for 12 years. 7 of those years I was single. It wasn't easy, but it was far from horrible  I took time and still take time for myself and it's a healthy balance. I am not supermom, nor do i want to be. I'm just enjoying the life I made from the choices I made. Kids are just people. They won't be perfect and they need guidance. But if momma isn't happy, ain't no body happy  LOL As a mom, you gotta remember yourself and who you were before the little ones came along. I wear a lot of hats. My favorite hat is "wife". After that, the rest just falls into place.

I applaud anyone who has a happy life, no matter their choices. Kids, no kids-- makes no difference to me. We are still women and have a lot to offer one another. One of my best friends doesn't have kids, nor is she married and she doesn't want to do either. Kudos to her! She rocks and when we get together, watch out!!


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

omega said:


> Well, yes, of course, if she didn't, she wouldn't have a normally functioning self-defense system, which everyone does. This is why we always remember the good stuff and block out the bad stuff.
> 
> But is she truly a happy person? No. She is very unhappy, depressed, and apparently has suicidal ideation although I don't know if she means it. I know that when people talk about suicide you're not supposed to just ignore it. But she could just be looking for attention, I suppose
> 
> Her husband has been distancing himself from her at light speed. I can predict the next chapter, but I can't even get her on the phone to warn her to put at least 1% of her time into her marriage.


And this, again, is about choices. There is a TON of mommy guilt that mothers carry. They find it hard to find a balance between mommy and sexkitten  In turn, it does cause a disconnection and depression. Again, NOT because of the children, but because of the choices they are making. Many mothers think they have to do everything for their kids and if they don't, then they have failed as a mom. They run themselves into the ground and forget themselves all together...how depressing is that?

I lost that for a while...but I simply wasn't doing anything because of health issues. Depression is a horrible thing. But I got my priorities back and things fall into place. 

Children don't need as much as parents are giving these days. Parents give too much of themselves. And in turn, they lose themselves. Then the children move out and you look at your mate and say, "who the hell are you?" I learned that from my family so I work to not be in that category. Parents helicopter over their children well into adulthood! I don't understand this either! My children know life is about choices...good or bad. You learn from both and make other choices accordingly. 



But I'm a bad mommy tonight :rofl: I just put my 3 year old down early because I am official "done" for the day. Whatever. She can't tell time. :lol:


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> And this, again, is about choices. There is a TON of mommy guilt that mothers carry. They find it hard to find a balance between mommy and sexkitten  In turn, it does cause a disconnection and depression. Again, NOT because of the children, but because of the choices they are making. Many mothers think they have to do everything for their kids and if they don't, then they have failed as a mom. They run themselves into the ground and forget themselves all together...how depressing is that?
> 
> I lost that for a while...but I simply wasn't doing anything because of health issues. Depression is a horrible thing. But I got my priorities back and things fall into place.
> 
> ...


You make excellent points, I have seen this "mommy guilt" thing so much in the past 5 years (i.e., now that my peer group has become parents). This girl in particular has a huge dose of it because her 4 yr old has autism (quite severely as she describes it, again, it could just be her looking for attention, sometimes I suspect he's just an Aspie and she's just trying to get sympathy, this is standard for her lately) - anyway, she posted that dealing with her son's autism is like dealing with "a death in the family." She posts that she feels to blame even though she knows she isn't. Etc. 

I agree that many parents try to do too much, but you try to convince the mother of a special needs / autistic kid that they should spend less time parenting and more time on their marriage. _Even though it's true._ She won't buy it. She might nod along with it, but that's where it stops.

And considering how many of the girls I grew up with have autistic kids, there must have been something in the water, it's a crazy high percentage of us, so no offense to the autistic kids out there, but I think I'll just sit that one out.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

omega said:


> But is she truly a happy person? No. She is very unhappy, depressed, and apparently has suicidal ideation although I don't know if she means it. I know that when people talk about suicide you're not supposed to just ignore it. But she could just be looking for attention, I suppose
> 
> Her husband has been distancing himself from her at light speed. I can predict the next chapter, but I can't even get her on the phone to warn her to put at least 1% of her time into her marriage.


My mother's depression (which lasted on/off for years) began as Postpartum depression.

One of my closest friends after the birth of her first, also suffered depression. After hearing my mother's stories, I recognized what was going on with my friend as a result - even though she lives in a different state. She didn't know what was wrong with her. I was phoning her in my lunch-break nearly every day for a short time before I decided that I needed to see her. Jumped on a plane the first chance I had to visit. She seemed "okay" (and I use that word loosely) around her husband but when he took us out for lunch with the baby, she went more quiet than normal and excused herself to the bathroom. I followed and sure enough, she burst into tears in my arms. She didn't want to express how she was feeling to her husband because she didn't feel that's how new mothers were supposed to be. She did end up talking to someone and getting some help. Knowing what my mother went through, I also encouraged her to speak up to her family so they could be there for her. She's the type that takes on everything, even if she's silently crumbling on the inside, and those around her could easily be clueless. They now have two children and she's a fantastic mother.

I hope you can be there for your friend, in whatever way she needs.


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## brat30 (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey there, I cant have children (due to infertility) BUT after 2 years of dealing with the loss it has been somewhat of a real blessing because if you go out and see the children of today they tend to be very bratty...and the thing is parents tend to do NOTHING about it! We have 2 very sweet dogs (much better then children any day) You Need to do pro/cons with your spouse and not let your friends and family tell you what to do this is a HUGE decison and it cannot be left up to family to make up for you...people who have children that really dont want them are the type of people who recent their children and a child or children don;t need that, it isn;t their fault that people have children by "mistake" and then the people who made that child forgot to use protection. THIS HAS TO BE YOUR CHOICE! Don't let all the "Mothers" tell you its the biggest blessing in the world either....its expensive,stressful,your house is ALWAYS messy, you never have YOU time, and so on. I am also a Nanny (unemployed at the moment) I don't hate children by any means im just telling you what it will be like as a parent (Ive lived in as a live in Nanny too) People like to say that children make a marrriage stronger too....it can also put a HUGE strain on a marriage because you litterally have NO "us" time unless your willing to pay someone and unless you want a teenager who dosent have a clue what their doing its gona cost you!!!! Best of Luck!!!


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

MNM said:


> Thank you, I was starting to feel like I was a lunatic for not having any children at my age. ha


Hi, I had my daughter when I was 35. She's almost 6 now and she is my world. :smthumbup:

I knew when I was a little girl that one day, I'd want a child. I've always LOVED babies, and all children. They bring so much joy into your heart and life. She's the main reason that I truly have Christmas spirit and it gets stronger every year. Before having her, I didn't really look forward to Christmas (for my own personal reasons). 

I know one thing, if you have ANY desire in your heart to have a baby, that will never go away no matter what type of future you plan for (childless or not). If you have NO desire for kids, that won't change either.

I don't think that wanting to have children is a "gray" area; you either want them or you don't.


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## brat30 (Dec 7, 2011)

I always wanted kids but it can change (dispite what Southern wife says) Things somtimes happen beyound your choice and theirs nothing you can do. Christmas isnt just about children its about giving to charites, spending time with family (not just those who have kids but those like your parents, brothers and sister aunties and uncles.) I think its a pretty sad society this world that people have to feel self worth made apone wiether ur a mum or dad, Theirs other ways to make a differnce in a childs life, if you dont want to have a child theirs fostering, adoption, Big sistering, working at a hospital etc! I have 5 neices and a newphew and they adore me! Don't let people fool you about how parenting is the "bigggest joy." it has alot of "downs" too.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

brat30 said:


> I always wanted kids but it can change (dispite what Southern wife says) Things somtimes happen beyound your choice and theirs nothing you can do.
> 
> Christmas isnt just about children
> 
> Don't let people fool you about how parenting is the "bigggest joy." it has alot of "downs" too.


Big difference in *CANNOT have *and *DON'T WANT *children! 

I never stated "Christmas was just about children". I simply said that having my daughter in my life puts me in TRUE Christmas spirit every year. 

And I also didn't say kids bring "biggest joy"; but they do bring so much joy to so many people that have them. Read through this entire thread, and you'll see what most Mom's have said.

Sure having kids can sometimes cause pain, and they can be a PITA, but the joy FAR outweighs any of that.

You need to *READ and see the meaning of what's written *before responding!


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

omega said:


> You make excellent points, I have seen this "mommy guilt" thing so much in the past 5 years (i.e., now that my peer group has become parents). This girl in particular has a huge dose of it because her 4 yr old has autism (quite severely as she describes it, again, it could just be her looking for attention, sometimes I suspect he's just an Aspie and she's just trying to get sympathy, this is standard for her lately) - anyway, she posted that dealing with her son's autism is like dealing with "a death in the family." She posts that she feels to blame even though she knows she isn't. Etc.
> 
> I agree that many parents try to do too much, but you try to convince the mother of a special needs / autistic kid that they should spend less time parenting and more time on their marriage. _Even though it's true._ She won't buy it. She might nod along with it, but that's where it stops.
> 
> And considering how many of the girls I grew up with have autistic kids, there must have been something in the water, it's a crazy high percentage of us, so no offense to the autistic kids out there, but I think I'll just sit that one out.


That is interesting about the amount of autism amongst your friends' children. I know one person with an autistic child. Interesting.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

brat30 said:


> I always wanted kids but it can change (dispite what Southern wife says) Things somtimes happen beyound your choice and theirs nothing you can do. Christmas isnt just about children its about giving to charites, spending time with family (not just those who have kids but those like your parents, brothers and sister aunties and uncles.) I think its a pretty sad society this world that people have to feel self worth made apone wiether ur a mum or dad, Theirs other ways to make a differnce in a childs life, if you dont want to have a child theirs fostering, adoption, Big sistering, working at a hospital etc! I have 5 neices and a newphew and they adore me! Don't let people fool you about how parenting is the "bigggest joy." it has alot of "downs" too.


Everything in life has ups and downs. If you think something will be roses all the time, you will always be disappointed.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> If you think something will be roses all the time, you will always be disappointed.


:iagree: Watch out for those thorns!!!! :rofl:


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

The one thing I hate about having children is other people who have children. LOL Other moms just love to judge other moms about everything.

"Oh your child still uses a bottle? Wow. Johnny has been off the bottle since he was 8 months. Now he chews steak." My daughter was 1.

"Oh your daughter isn't potty trained? Johnny's been using the toilet since birth. He's a genius." My duaghter still isn't potty trained 100%. Who cares. She won't go to college in diapers.

"Oh you let your child watch TV? Don't you care about her brain?" No. In fact, I said, I wonder how I can destroy her brain the fastest.

:rofl: I had to leave a Mommy Chat Board because of this. I don't give a rat's arse what other mom's do with their kids, so long as it's not abusive. But I think other moms may judge because they think they are 100% right OR they question their own parenting. 

I just do what I do. My kids are fine and well adjusted to life.

Being a parent is awesome. Being a parent sucks. It's both at different times, but...either you want to commit or you don't and that's such a personal decision and not one I would ever judge.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

brat30 said:


> Hey there, I cant have children (due to infertility) BUT after 2 years of dealing with the loss it has been somewhat of a real blessing because if you go out and see the children of today they tend to be very bratty...and the thing is parents tend to do NOTHING about it! We have 2 very sweet dogs (much better then children any day) You Need to do pro/cons with your spouse and not let your friends and family tell you what to do this is a HUGE decison and it cannot be left up to family to make up for you...people who have children that really dont want them are the type of people who recent their children and a child or children don;t need that, it isn;t their fault that people have children by "mistake" and then the people who made that child forgot to use protection. THIS HAS TO BE YOUR CHOICE! Don't let all the "Mothers" tell you its the biggest blessing in the world either....its expensive,stressful,your house is ALWAYS messy, you never have YOU time, and so on. I am also a Nanny (unemployed at the moment) I don't hate children by any means im just telling you what it will be like as a parent (Ive lived in as a live in Nanny too) People like to say that children make a marrriage stronger too....it can also put a HUGE strain on a marriage because you litterally have NO "us" time unless your willing to pay someone and unless you want a teenager who dosent have a clue what their doing its gona cost you!!!! Best of Luck!!!


Come to my house  My house is cleaned every evening. I have "me" time all the time. My marriage is fine...the problems we had were nothing to do with the children. Is it expensive? I guess...but I haven't noticed. I'm not stressed either 

Stop using extremes. Absolutes are generally wrong. Again, it's all about choices and finding a good balance. This is not brain surgery.

And what's with the "" around mothers? :rofl: Are we not really mothers? I don't get it. I'm a mother. So what. I don't get the..."mothers". LOL


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> And what's with the "" around mothers? :rofl: Are we not really mothers? I don't get it. I'm a mother. So what. I don't get the..."mothers". LOL


:lol: I thought the same thing... :scratchhead:

But also notice the user ID: BRAT! Maybe she's use to getting what she wants and threw a trantrum because her "MOMMY" said, "NO"! :rofl:


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> The one thing I hate about having children is other people who have children. LOL Other moms just love to judge other moms about everything.
> 
> "Oh your child still uses a bottle? Wow. Johnny has been off the bottle since he was 8 months. Now he chews steak." My daughter was 1.
> 
> ...


What's even WORSE, is people that DON'T have kids telling you how to raise your kids, what you should be / should not be doing, yada yada yada. REALLY PEOPLE? WTF?

This is MY child and I'll do what I think is best for her!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I didn't read any responses but my answer to the OP would be:

If you have to ask, don't have kids.

I recently saw an article about kids. It was something to the effect that having kids is 49% a pain in your ass and 51% the most unexplainable joy. The article talked about how that 1% made all the difference, but another way to look at it is if you're not in the right place, that 1% can skew the other way and you just end up resenting them.

I can tell you, as a parent, that kids are tough. It takes a lot of work and at times it sucks major balls. They CHANGE your life completely. If you enjoy your life and don't want to take that responsiblity, then don't, because you will be miserable and not enjoy it.

Have kids when you are ready, if it's later in life, so be it. My family is Italian, they all start having kids in their 40's. Other people who think you should have kids aren't going to get up with them at 5am and change their poopy diapers and listen to them scream all day when you're stressed out. They aren't going to put up with their shenanigans day after day when they start getting to the button pushing stage.

It will also completely elevate the stress in your marriage. If there's any unresolved issues before kids, they're going to become major problems afterwards, and you're going to feel trapped at that point and that will make it even worse.

Not trying to scare you, but these are the hard realities of kids that no one talks about. I love my kids to death and I consider it the greatest experience of my life, but it can also be extremely stressful and contributed to major depression for my wife.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow~!! So much negativity. 

I honestly didn't have the experience above. My girls were good babies...waking up was no big deal...husband helped too...Yes, life changes, but if you wait until you are ready, you'll be ready for the changes. Unless you still want to go clubbing at 40. I don't know, maybe you do.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> That is interesting about the amount of autism amongst your friends' children. I know one person with an autistic child. Interesting.


Actually, it is REALLY weird. I have moved away and live in Europe now, and while I'm still involved in the (tiny) autistic community here, it's practically unheard of here. I used to teach autistic kids in the US and was more up on the research at that time, but even considering how common it is in the US, my childhood area got hit hard. No one seems to know what causes it (aside from the genetic factor which was pretty obvious to me when the parents of my kids would come in and have obvious spectrum characteristics), but my personal experience leads me to believe that something environmental in the mother's/parent's childhood could have something to do with it. I've never seen that suggested anywhere, it's just my idea. But just the small group of girls I hung out with in high school, at least 5 of them have boys on the autism spectrum. (We're talking about a total of like 8-9 girls.)


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, it amazes me how many allergies are on the rise around here. Peanuts, nuts, soy, etc. From birth! Something is going on...lord knows we'll never know what, though.

I believe Autism in the States is 'on the rise' only because it's more diagnosed now. 

Like I said, though, as a teacher, I haven't met many autistic children nor do my friends have autistic kids. 
There was an area in college that I lived, where 10 children in the neighborhood (about 3 miles radius) were born with Leukemia within a 5 year period. The woman I worked for at the YMCA lived in that area and BOTH her children had Leukemia  Makes you wonder what they put in our food/water/soil/etc.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> Wow~!! So much negativity.
> 
> I honestly didn't have the experience above. My girls were good babies...waking up was no big deal...husband helped too...Yes, life changes, but if you wait until you are ready, you'll be ready for the changes. Unless you still want to go clubbing at 40. I don't know, maybe you do.


:iagree: :iagree:

I actually know people that go clubbing at almost 50!  Can't find a good person to settle down with, WAY past the having-babies age......just totally missed the mark and are now very unhappy with their "single and child free/childless  life". 

Don't get me wrong, there are people that don't WANT kids; my sister being one of them. She'd be miserable being a Mom: no patience, has to be the center of attention, wants her freedom, etc. But that's her choice.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

southern wife said:


> :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> I actually know people that go clubbing at almost 50!  Can't find a good person to settle down with, WAY past the having-babies age......just totally missed the mark and are now very unhappy with their "single and child free/childless  life".
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are people that don't WANT kids; my sister being one of them. She'd be miserable being a Mom: no patience, has to be the center of attention, wants her freedom, etc. But that's her choice.


My dad was a clubber at 60.  Well, ok not really...but he was a barfly. I didn't judge. I know older, single childfree people and I don't judge. Do what you want, but leave me alone as well!


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> My dad was a clubber at 60.  Well, ok not really...but he was a barfly. I didn't judge. I know older, single childfree people and I don't judge. Do what you want, but leave me alone as well!


No, I don't judge either; was just stating some facts.


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## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> Well, it amazes me how many allergies are on the rise around here. Peanuts, nuts, soy, etc. From birth! Something is going on...lord knows we'll never know what, though.
> 
> I believe Autism in the States is 'on the rise' only because it's more diagnosed now.
> 
> ...


When I was in 8th grade, so like forever ago, I read a book by an epidemiologist who found that high voltage power lines were causing childhood leukemia in a community - the lines were right outside the elementary school. It could be anything - there are so many pollutants in our world anymore.

When I was teaching autistic kids, the idea that the increase was due to awareness and more kids getting diagnosed was very prevalent. The thing is, so many of the cases are so severe, and when you look at the populations of group homes for adults with autism and compare to the number of kids with autism who are most likely to need a group home setting, there is an enormous difference. If autism isn't more common now, where are all those adults with severe autism? We don't lock people up in institutions for life because they're different anymore.

Also on the subject of allergies - two of my friends (including the one I was talking about) who have autistic kids also have kids with allergies (gluten and casein in both cases). And of course none of us ever had or has any allergies at all. And I have a bunch of other friends with kids with that kind of allergy. We're not all living with some kind of undiagnosed allergy-induced agony, either. We just don't have allergies.

Anyway this is way off-topic and has nothing to do with the OP!!! Except in the sense that yes, teaching special needs children did make me want to have children even LESS than before. Their parents were stressed out, exhausted, and drifting apart from one another. Pretty much without exception. Just like my friend.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

omega said:


> When I was in 8th grade, so like forever ago, I read a book by an epidemiologist who found that high voltage power lines were causing childhood leukemia in a community - the lines were right outside the elementary school. It could be anything - there are so many pollutants in our world anymore.
> 
> When I was teaching autistic kids, the idea that the increase was due to awareness and more kids getting diagnosed was very prevalent. The thing is, so many of the cases are so severe, and when you look at the populations of group homes for adults with autism and compare to the number of kids with autism who are most likely to need a group home setting, there is an enormous difference. If autism isn't more common now, where are all those adults with severe autism? We don't lock people up in institutions for life because they're different anymore.
> 
> Anyway this is way off-topic and has nothing to do with the OP!!! Except in the sense that yes, teaching special needs children did make me want to have children even LESS than before. Their parents were stressed out, exhausted, and drifting apart from one another. Pretty much without exception. Just like my friend.


This is interesting, thank you. I will look into on my own. I am thankful everyday that my children are healthy. It was a worry of mine with my 2nd because of my age.


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