# Reminders



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I mentioned on another thread about the pendulum swings that I keep feeling. Generally, I am feeling much better than I was a year ago, 6 months ago or even 3 months ago. But still sometimes things come up that really swings my thinking around. 
Yesterday, someone posted about porn and masturbation and how their husband was addicted to it to the point of refusing sex with her. It got me thinking about how, towards the end of my marriage, I often resorted to porn and masturbation. I started to feel guilty as though that was the cause of the breakdown of the marriage. I got really down on myself and felt incredibly guilty. Then I started thinking it thru (AGAIN! for the ten millionth time!) and I came back to all the times she had rebuffed my initiatives and even told me that she didn't even think about having sex with me because she was just to busy. It made me realize that I may have turned to porn, but I only did so out of frustration and rejection. Over the years I never, ever turned down any of her invitations and never had any ED or PE issues. 
So I started thinking of other reminders of why I felt the way I had felt. These include -
"I don't even think about having sex with you because I am just too busy" - in response to my telling her that I felt like a low priority
"You do what you have to do! I don't want to know about it: in response to my telling her about the hardest decision I had ever had to make to that point in my life - filing bankruptcy due to the mortgage meltdown
"I blame you because you wouldn't get a JOB!" in response to my telling her how hurt I was from the previous statement. As if the JOB that I had wasn't a real job even though she stood beside me spending money as fast as I could make it and neither she nor any of the children ever went without for anything
Then there were the various digs at what we had as opposed to what she wanted (but claimed to not), Such as (her cousin) is successful because he has so much faith in Jesus, as if I wasn't because I could not accept.
Sometimes in the midst of getting down on myself and blaming myself, I just need to remind myself that I didn't get there by myself. The person I had opened my heart to and brought into my life as my partner, changed over the years and stopped being a partner and came to feel entitled to having her needs met at the expense of my own.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Are you implying that you had absolutely no part in the breakdown of your marriage?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

"Triggers," @Ynot. We all have them....I am sure you do not think your ex wife is 100 percent at fault for the demise of your marriage or you would not have been questioning your part when you were triggered. I can tell just from your introspective postings you have really put a lot of thought into taking ownership of what faults you may have and trying to evolve into the best possible version of you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

where_are_we said:


> Are you implying that you had absolutely no part in the breakdown of your marriage?


Not this now please. I'm sure he is not thinking this. In fact quite the opposite. Anyway, being reminded of his faults at this point amounts to piling on. 

His ex sounds like she beat him down. Part of his faults are that he believed her lies then and still does now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Ynot should take complete responsibility for porn/chocking his chicken. He should have confronted her and left the marriage. I think ynot can take the criticism. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

It is a simple question. Not a judgement or a criticism.

I believe I am entitled to ask a question and even share my opinion on a pubic forum (which I have not even done yet on this thread).


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

you are right


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

where_are_we said:


> Are you implying that you had absolutely no part in the breakdown of your marriage?


Not at all! I know I was to blame as well. There were lots of things I would have done differently could I go back in time. Perhaps had I done so, some of these triggers may not have occurred in the first place, or I may have reacted differently to them. But the point was that things did happen. I felt the way I felt THEN because of things that happened THEN. I sometimes need to remind myself NOW of how I felt THEN when I get down on myself NOW. 
I have said a number of times that I do not think my ex was evil or vindictive of purposefully set out to hurt me. In fact she was probably doing the same thing I was doing at the time - acting in the best way she knew how. The problem was that neither of us really knew as much as we thought we did. But it still doesn't change the way I felt then.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, without proper boundaries and parameters, we develop poor coping skills in response to situations we either cannot walk away from or we refuse to deal with. Most of us lack the ability to detach and become introspective into our own motivation, whether we are fulfilled or not, and how did we end up at this point and why we are the way we are today.

So in order to cope with our situation, we learn to avoid, deflect, deny, in order to remain where we are at until someone breaks the cycle in some manner.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Not at all! I know I was to blame as well. There were lots of things I would have done differently could I go back in time. Perhaps had I done so, some of these triggers may not have occurred in the first place, or I may have reacted differently to them. But the point was that things did happen. I felt the way I felt THEN because of things that happened THEN. I sometimes need to remind myself NOW of how I felt THEN when I get down on myself NOW.
> I have said a number of times that I do not think my ex was evil or vindictive of purposefully set out to hurt me. In fact she was probably doing the same thing I was doing at the time - acting in the best way she knew how. The problem was that neither of us really knew as much as we thought we did. But it still doesn't change the way I felt then.


I'm happy to hear that and I can so relate! I didn't learn my lesson after the first failed marriage. My first husband was a mean drunk, a cheater, a liar and just a hateful person in general.

When I got married the second time, I thought I hit the jackpot. This guy was quiet, never yelled at me and just went with the flow. He was a nice guy! I'll just say that you gotta watch out for the quiet ones sometimes! They are quiet for a reason. ha ha

It was not until after this marriage failed that I have been able to recognize my own contributions to the break down of the relationships. I am more self-aware and am working on my own issues.

I attracted these type of men. I sought them out. I overlooked things in them and they overlooked things in me. I hope I have broken the cycle Mr. Fisty mentions.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

where_are_we said:


> I'm happy to hear that and I can so relate! I didn't learn my lesson after the first failed marriage. My first husband was a mean drunk, a cheater, a liar and just a hateful person in general.
> 
> When I got married the second time, I thought I hit the jackpot. This guy was quiet, never yelled at me and just went with the flow. He was a nice guy! I'll just say that you gotta watch out for the quiet ones sometimes! They are quiet for a reason. ha ha
> 
> ...


There was definitely a large element of codependency in my marriage. I too thought I had hit the jackpot. Here was a beautiful women who I was able to convince that I was the man she was looking for. From that point forward all my efforts went into trying anticipate what she wanted so I could keep her. At first this was easy because in doing so I filled my own needs. But as my needs and hers evolved away from this mutually satisfying place in our lives. We each became more and more unhappy. The satisfaction we both felt grew less and less. The resentments grew more and more. She acted the away she did because of dissatisfaction and unhappiness, just as I did. We never really resolved these issues as we never really had any deep conversations . Mostly out of fear that a discussion would lead to the end of the relationship. Rather we had arguments that ended in silence, followed by an apology and an unspoken agreement to bury the issue to deal with some other issue, usually involving the kids. Once the kids were gone, this distraction no longer existed and the unresolved arguments came to a head. She had threatened to leave many times over the years if I didn't like the way things were. I increasingly didn't like the way things were and she finally left. I couldn't be whoever she wanted to be and she couldn't be the woman I wanted her to be. Now we are both free to find those people.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Unfortunately, without proper boundaries and parameters, we develop poor coping skills in response to situations we either cannot walk away from or we refuse to deal with. Most of us lack the ability to detach and become introspective into our own motivation, whether we are fulfilled or not, and how did we end up at this point and why we are the way we are today.
> 
> So in order to cope with our situation, we learn to avoid, deflect, deny, in order to remain where we are at until someone breaks the cycle in some manner.


Yes and the avoidance, deflection and denial all chip away at who you are and what you know or believe to be right. You become disintegrated from your self. Lacking integrity we feel unhappy with our selves. But rather than deal with the issue of unhappiness we apply the same aformentioned coping mechanisms to it as well and blame an external as the cause and never truly resolve the source of our own unhappiness.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

where_are_we said:


> I'm happy to hear that and I can so relate! I didn't learn my lesson after the first failed marriage. My first husband was a mean drunk, a cheater, a liar and just a hateful person in general.
> 
> When I got married the second time, I thought I hit the jackpot. This guy was quiet, never yelled at me and just went with the flow. He was a nice guy! I'll just say that you gotta watch out for the quiet ones sometimes! They are quiet for a reason. ha ha
> 
> ...




My guess is that compared to your ex, your last husband presented himself as your perfect mate.

I am not sure about your last marriage, but I think his being quiet and nice was a mask to be observant, to watch you so he can manipulate you.

You were vulnerable from your previous marriage, so it was easy for your last husband to come in and play a role contradictory to your last partner.

Is your ex, the one you just separated from ever remoreseful?

There are people out there that want to be committed to so they wear masks for others to grow attached to them.

So someone just came from an abusive marriage, another person can use that information to present themselves as caring, understanding, and promises to never hurt them in the same way. They boost and give the other validation and people become attracted to what feels good, thus seeking it out more. Your ex fulfilled a need that was missing from your previous marriage, thus the want to bond and grow closer.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Not this now please. I'm sure he is not thinking this. In fact quite the opposite. Anyway, being reminded of his faults at this point amounts to piling on.
> 
> His ex sounds like she beat him down. Part of his faults are that he believed her lies then and still does now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think she lied to me as much as I lied to myself. She told me the things that she did. I did not like them when I heard them. But rather than deal with them, I did as Mr Fisty stated. I denied, avoided and deflected the words in order to not have to face the reality of what they truly meant. The result was my complete devastation when she finally left.
I spent months blaming her for every wrong in the world. If only she...,She could have done.... I would have done..... All useless thoughts at this point because she didn't she couldn't and I wouldn't knowing what we each knew at that time. 
I have no idea what she thinks now or how she feels now. The reality is that I didn't truly know what she felt or thought then. I had taken what she had said and avoided, denied and deflected them. But now I can place them in a context that makes sense to how things played out. I know I can't change what has happened, but I can learn from them.
She may not have meant what she said, she may very well have meant it verbatim. All I do know now is how they made me feel at that time and how I lived my life in reaction to them.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> My guess is that compared to your ex, your last husband presented himself as your perfect mate.
> 
> I am not sure about your last marriage, but I think his being quiet and nice was a mask to be observant, to watch you so he can manipulate you.
> 
> ...


This^^^ I played the role of her ex. My ex had just come out of an abusive marriage (according to her - it may have been I only know what I was told). I became her anti-ex. I morphed into the opposite of everything she claimed to have despised about her ex. I didn't do so out of spite or any other sinister motives. I did so because I immature and didn't know any better. I was the proverbial White Knight or Nice Guy.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ynot said:


> This^^^ I played the role of her ex. My ex had just come out of an abusive marriage (according to her - it may have been I only know what I was told). I became her anti-ex. I morphed into the opposite of everything she claimed to have despised about her ex. I didn't do so out of spite or any other sinister motives. I did so because I immature and didn't know any better. I was the proverbial White Knight or Nice Guy.



I think there is a difference between someone showing love and affection towards another, and showing love and affection so someone else becomes indebted to them.

You morphed into the role, where there are others that use it to manipulate others and punish people they feel that are indebted to them.

Those come into relationship with aulterior motives.

In case of KISA, they use others to boost themselves and their self worth, they want the other to feel indebted to them, to love them and mold themselves into what they want as payment for services rendered. Usually, they are attracted to their target's circumstances and not the individual as a person. Mother Theresa syndrome would be the reverse for females. They see a damage man and if they love and nurture him enough, they can fix him. Usually this stems from unresolved issues from their own broken home.

So, was there other qualities about your ex that made you drawn to her?

Normally with KISA, when their partner grows stronger and less dependent, the attraction fades. The KISA becomes lost and no longer has a role to play, so they either grow distant or manipulate their target into needing them.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I think there is a difference between someone showing love and affection towards another, and showing love and affection so someone else becomes indebted to them.
> 
> You morphed into the role, where there are others that use it to manipulate others and punish people they feel that are indebted to them.
> 
> ...


I think I fell for her because she needed me. I filled a need in her world, just as she filled a need in mine. My needs involved having someone, having a family, having stability and having a home. In the beginning she provided all of these things for me. There were some things I overlooked to make it work. She had a child from her previous marriage and I gained an instant family. She was not into drama and seemed very grounded which gave me the stability I was looking for and she was very focused on making a good home for her son and I liked that.
I think I filled many of her needs as well. I was there to support her and her son. I helped raise her child. I was stable (at least I appeared to be to her as I had a career and had finished school) and I accepted her family and enjoyed domestic life.
Over time, as those mutual needs resolved themselves our need for each other no longer dominated our lives. I think she recognized this far sooner than I did. I continued to fantasize about our future long after she had already decided our relationship was no longer making her happy.
It has taken me many months to come to this realization. But both the long term love and the more recent deeply felt hatred are hard emotions to overcome. I am still detaching from those feelings. I can feel the detachment growing, but it is not something that happens over night, regardless of how much I want to just get over it. But at least I know it is there.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

As a follow up to my previous post. At the time I met my ex I had another "opportunity" with another woman. The other woman, S, was just as attractive, if not possibly more so. She made it known she was available to me. We had become very good friends. But for I felt like she didn't need me and I backed off. She was single, a little older, didn't have any kids and I felt like it would have been too much "fun" and not serious enough.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ynot said:


> I think I fell for her because she needed me. I filled a need in her world, just as she filled a need in mine. My needs involved having someone, having a family, having stability and having a home. In the beginning she provided all of these things for me. There were some things I overlooked to make it work. She had a child from her previous marriage and I gained an instant family. She was not into drama and seemed very grounded which gave me the stability I was looking for and she was very focused on making a good home for her son and I liked that.
> I think I filled many of her needs as well. I was there to support her and her son. I helped raise her child. I was stable (at least I appeared to be to her as I had a career and had finished school) and I accepted her family and enjoyed domestic life.
> Over time, as those mutual needs resolved themselves our need for each other no longer dominated our lives. I think she recognized this far sooner than I did. I continued to fantasize about our future long after she had already decided our relationship was no longer making her happy.
> It has taken me many months to come to this realization. But both the long term love and the more recent deeply felt hatred are hard emotions to overcome. I am still detaching from those feelings. I can feel the detachment growing, but it is not something that happens over night, regardless of how much I want to just get over it. But at least I know it is there.



It takes time for those emotional memories and that bond to break or fade. The less the love is enforce, the less it triggers an emotional or the drive to connect. It is like a secondary language, the less often you use it, the more you forget. I took three years of Spanish and I am down to first year Spanish from high school. Those connections to my language center is slowly going extinct.

She made up a huge part of your life, some of your behavior and response is still predicated around her. It takes time to develop new habits, adapt to no longer having her around, but like anything else, we grow accustomed to our new situation to varying degree.

In the end, you may simply wish for the best for her, but odds are, you will never become indifferent towards her, not completely. But you will reach a point where she will rarely occupy your time as you learn and live new experience. She will become a past memory, and not a part of your regular life.

Our brains only have enough processing power to maintain a number of attachments to varying degrees. Over time, the less enforce attachments fade, replaced by new ones, or other bonds getting stronger or weaker.

You have already noticed how your bond to her is weakening.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Mr Fisty, I do think that my setbacks typically come about just before another bond of detachment snaps. It is just my ego protecting the familiar and itself from loss. I haven't yet felt that relieving snap when everything just lets loose and falls away when structural failure finally happens. But I can feel it coming


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Ynot said:


> regardless of how much I want to just get over it. But at least I know it is there.


And remember if you "just got over it" you'd recreate the entire debacle all over again. These feelings will enforce discipline on your next choice for a mate...DUDE


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## RisingSun (Nov 1, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Mr Fisty, I do think that my setbacks typically come about just before another bond of detachment snaps. It is just my ego protecting the familiar and itself from loss. I haven't yet felt that relieving snap when everything just lets loose and falls away when structural failure finally happens. But I can feel it coming


Could this be happening because you analyze or dwell on the past two much? I understand being hurt and that taking a while to go away, but at some point, our choice can affect how long we live in this type of pain.

In my case, I over-analyze. The first time my stbxw left, I was in a deep, dark hole for month, no knowing how to climb out. A bit over seven weeks ago, she left again, and November was a rough month. I would over-analyze and drag out the puzzle pieces trying to make sense of it all, and looking for answers when there really was no point in doing so. I simply had to accept it was over, and that was my ultimate answer. 

During the past three weeks, things have gotten easier. I try to control my thoughts, visualize a happier life with someone new with whom I really connect, and that has made a different. The pendulum swings are not as bad, and most days I'm pretty positive about the future.

I don't mean to criticize anyone for having pain and feeling shaken by their experience. Believe me, I've been there. That said, at some point the less ruminating we do and the more we focus on a positive future, the better off we'll be. This, of course, goes with taking care of ourselves physically and emotionally.

I'm sure there will be moments to come when I'll have to take my own advice here. It is definitely a process to experience, live through and grow from.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

RisingSun said:


> Could this be happening because you analyze or dwell on the past two much? I understand being hurt and that taking a while to go away, but at some point, our choice can affect how long we live in this type of pain.


While I am definitely prone to overanalyze and over think things, I feel that this was due more to the fact that I had been married for 24 years. Almost all of my recent memories and thoughts had been wrapped up in the marriage in some way. After she left, I did something that many don't or can't do. Many may consider it a huge mistake, but I just bailed out. I sold my home. I closed my business. I moved to a new city. I took a new job in a foreign environment. I moved from my friends. I basically unplugged completely from old life and went off to start a new one.
Something I wasn't counting on was the depth and entanglement of my memories with my thoughts and actions. Every mental process required disentangling my memories from my actions, questioning my motivations and trying to forge a new identity along the way. 
So I took the road less traveled and by far the more difficult one as far as I am concerned and have had to weed out random memories and ideas, picking and choosing what to hold onto and what to discard. I had spent 24 years immersed in a certain way of life and jumped into a parallel universe with no support system or foundation to build on.
I think in the long run, I will emerge from all of this not just a stronger person, but a much stronger person, as I have had to redo, rethink and redesign my entire life from the ground up. But I got to do with the hindsight of experience.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Ynot said:


> While I am definitely prone to overanalyze and over think things, I feel that this was due more to the fact that I had been married for 24 years. Almost all of my recent memories and thoughts had been wrapped up in the marriage in some way. After she left, I did something that many don't or can't do. Many may consider it a huge mistake, but I just bailed out. I sold my home. I closed my business. I moved to a new city. I took a new job in a foreign environment. I moved from my friends. I basically unplugged completely from old life and went off to start a new one.
> Something I wasn't counting on was the depth and entanglement of my memories with my thoughts and actions. Every mental process required disentangling my memories from my actions, questioning my motivations and trying to forge a new identity along the way.
> So I took the road less traveled and by far the more difficult one as far as I am concerned and have had to weed out random memories and ideas, picking and choosing what to hold onto and what to discard. I had spent 24 years immersed in a certain way of life and jumped into a parallel universe with no support system or foundation to build on.
> I think in the long run, I will emerge from all of this not just a stronger person, but a much stronger person, as I have had to redo, rethink and redesign my entire life from the ground up. But I got to do with the hindsight of experience.


The only thing you took with you was TAM.....DUDE


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Change is slow, and you are bound to make mistakes. I still make them all the time. I would analyze them as I go along, think about it, then acknowledge and learn. As I changed, I noticed that after initial attraction, well in psychology, it is called exposure. Other traits become more attractive to me in a female. I lose attraction for needy people, I am attracted to strong, independent females. I like someone who can challenge me.

If you were a white knight, changing that aspect of yourself will change what attracts you to another person.

You were in a marriage for 24 years, it would take you longer to heal than someone half that time will tend to take. I would state go out and explore life and see what new hobbies interest you.

Btw, those attachments, or bonds, take time to fade. You are not likely to ever become indifferent, as she has heavily imprinted herself into your emotional memories, but as you keep on living, meeting new people, changing, that will help decrease her in your life. Also, the less you think about her, the less reinforced she becomes.


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