# Stuck in limbo



## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

I wrote here a year ago, and I could use some advice again. My marriage is still in a bad place, I have two young kids, and we just moved again. We have been to couples counseling, but I didn’t give it my all. I wanted to talk about issues that were really bothering me, but most of the therapist’s advice centered around having more sex, touching/showing affection more, loving conversations and general attention/affection. It was difficult for me to do that when I still felt very hurt from past offenses and not 100% safe with my husband emotionally. 

We go through phases where things are ok or they are bad. Things are never good or great. I still have sex with him every week or two, but I have not enjoyed or wanted to have sex with him in years. I am a very open, confident person, so it’s not due to inhibition or lack of trying/discussion. He is not very comfortable talking about sex, so conversations don’t go very well, “showing” new things didn’t work even during happier times earlier in our relationship, and I am no longer attracted to him. I just fulfill my marital duties and fake it. 

My husband can get very angry and annoyed, and yells a lot. My mother and sister and even his family have all made comments to me that he doesn’t seem happy, and he isn’t always very kind to me. My five year old has started to make comments that “you don’t have to marry him anymore” and “you can just marry someone else”. He has never hit me, but he yells a lot, doesn’t have much patience with me or the kids, and doesn’t handle stress well. Recently during an outburst, he said that “I should slap you”, but he has never once been done anything physical in over 11 years that we have been together. 

He tends to be passive aggressive, but only aggressive at home. At work and with his parents/sister, he’s very passive and non-assertive, to the point where it hinders him professionally and socially. I’m the confident, type A person that takes care of everything, from selling our last two houses by myself, managing all of the finances, organizing/planning/managing everything, making friends, building relationships and making sure that everyone is taken care of while having to stay on top of him for the few things that I cannot manage, such as work-related matters. 

If I don’t appreciate things he does around the house, he gets mad at me, but I rarely get any recognition, appreciation or gratitude for everything that I do. I have stopped showing appreciation and have become more negative. I’m not generally depressed, but our relationship makes me feel very depressed and is affecting other areas of my life. 

Our relationship has become increasingly traditional over the years. When we first met, I worked full time and had a great career, and he was in school. Now I’m the SAHM and our relationship feels more like his parents, but he still resents me for being the assertive one that manages everything and has to remind him/ask him to do things. It always feels like a catch-22.

I’ve been at home for the past five years, and I need to go back to work. I have already been sending out my resume and plan to start looking full-time in a few more weeks once the kids are back to school. I just don’t know how much more of this marriage I can take. He can be so mean and critical of me, and I have no love or even like left for him. I’ve become equally as bad, between stonewalling, avoiding, contempt and criticism. I feel terrible for our children to see this, and try my best not to fight or bicker in front of them. 

I’m very fortunate to be in a good position socioeconomically (we both have advanced degrees and are upper middle class but have mostly avoided any lifestyle creep) and when we sold our last house just last month, we chose to rent currently. Aside from his student loans, which stay with him if we do split, we have no debt. I still worry about the kids, and trying to do the best for them. We can lead a somewhat comfortable but modest life now, but I know it would be much harder and we would have much less if I divorce. 

I know that kids are resilient, and divorce is not always completely traumatizing, but I don’t want to do any damage to the kids emotionally, and I want to lead by example and teach them to be strong. I cannot believe I have become that woman that considers staying and sucking it up for the kids. I always thought I was much too strong for that. I also do know how hard it can be as a single mom, as my dad died when I was 13, and my mom was a single mom for about 5 years after that. I just moved to a new city where I don’t have many friends yet, have not found a sitter and my mom lives 5 hours away. Am I crazy for contemplating leaving, or crazy for contemplating staying?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Passive-aggressiveness means that there is a tendency to engage in indirect expression of hostility through acts such as sullenness, stubbornness, subtle insults, or a deliberate failure to accomplish required tasks. Being aggressive in one setting and passive in another is not my understanding of this.

Sounds like you are both unhappy and have been for a while. A different marriage counselor might be helpful if both of you are FULLY participating. I'm sensing that you are leaning toward leaving this marriage. Marriage is hard work--a lot. Also sounds like you feel 'diminished' from the person you used to see yourself as.

'Sad and lonely' says so much. Make a decision and follow through because you will be ripe for cheating if/when you return to the work force. DON"t be that person.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

When your five year old child tells you that you don't have to be married to their daddy anymore...you need to get OUT. I have two angry ex husbands. My second was a lot like what you describe, with the criticism, being mean, etc. He used to get mad and give me the silent treatment for days on end. Being with an angry man is soul sucking. I left him. Get a job and get out. People like him don't change and do you want to have this same life 20 years from now? Don't your children deserve a happy home?


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> Passive-aggressiveness means that there is a tendency to engage in indirect expression of hostility through acts such as sullenness, stubbornness, subtle insults, or a deliberate failure to accomplish required tasks. Being aggressive in one setting and passive in another is not my understanding of this.
> 
> Sounds like you are both unhappy and have been for a while. A different marriage counselor might be helpful if both of you are FULLY participating. I'm sensing that you are leaning toward leaving this marriage. Marriage is hard work--a lot. Also sounds like you feel 'diminished' from the person you used to see yourself as.
> 
> 'Sad and lonely' says so much. Make a decision and follow through because you will be ripe for cheating if/when you return to the work force. DON"t be that person.


I would never cheat on anyone. I had an ex (serious bf, not husband) cheat on me years ago, and I wouldn’t do that to anyone. Plus, I’m a firm believer in needing time between relationships if you are going to learn, grow and change a pattern in relationships. I know that things happen, but generally speaking, serial monogamists and cheaters tend to repeat the same bad patterns. In shorter-term relationships, they say it takes about 1/3-1/2 the length of the relationship to fully “get over” that relationship and move on. Additionally, I have two young children, and if I get in another relationship someday, I would go very slowly and be certain that the man would be of the best quality/trustworthy to expose my children to, not just a relationship I jumped into out of passion, loneliness or desperation. I was single in my 20’s for years before I met my husband, and I have never felt the need to have to be in a relationship just to have someone. I have never once jumped from one relationship to another, and I have never cheated in my life. I had slept around a little bit in my 20’s, but never once was I unfaithful. 

I’m very independent and strong, so my problems in my marriage and my overall unhappiness have nothing to do with wanting to be with someone else. I feel like most men on these forums seem to believe that women that are unhappy always cheat, but I have so many friends like myself, in their 30’s and 40’s with younger kids and very unsupportive/unloving husbands that are not and would not cheat, but we are just unhappy. Sadly, I feel like most of my friends are more similar to myself than in happy marriages, and are married to men who are not happy and take that out on their wives and families.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Appreciate your excellent, thoughtful response. GOOD to know folks like you still exist.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I stayed in a marriage that didn't work because I wanted my child to have an intact family. That was a mistake. Children are very observant.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Was your H always this angry? Critical? Or is this something more recent?

Could it be him lashing out because the relationship is in such a shambles? 

Laying there for "wifely duty" every week, feeling nothing? You aren't doing anyone any favors by faking intimacy with him.


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

Tron said:


> Was your H always this angry? Critical? Or is this something more recent?
> 
> Could it be him lashing out because the relationship is in such a shambles?
> 
> Laying there for "wifely duty" every week, feeling nothing? You aren't doing anyone any favors by faking intimacy with him.


The more I dig deeper into the issues in my marriage, the more I am starting to believe he is an introverted narcissist. The anger was always there, but has gotten much worse over time. When we were dating and he didn’t match at the residency he wanted, he slammed his laptop so hard he broke it. When his overtly narcissist best friend told him he didn’t want to hang out with him when I was around, he told me that he could only hang out with me on days his bf/roommate was’t hanging out, because he was moving in with me soon, and didn’t want to upset his bf and instead wanted to hang out the last few months before they moved out and went to different programs. When living together, we got in a fight and he got so mad and broke a lamp. He has never ever been violent or abusive with me, and those were the only two times he ever hit or broke something, but his anger has definitely gotten worse over the years and with kids added in to the mix. His family, my family and our friends have all made many comments that he doesn’t seem happy, he is has a very short temper/no patience, and yells at me and the kids fairly often. 

Some red flags are that he’s very socially awkward and rude at times to people he doesn’t know. He will only be friendly/have anything more than a passing hello or forced social interaction with anyone that he considers to be on his level (his exact words were “I don’t mean to sound like a snob, but I really don’t want to hang out with Joe because he is very average, and I’m a doctor. All of my friends (truly acquaintances, he doesn’t have many friends) are doctors”. It can be downright embarrassing when he acts aloof and won’t talk to people he doesn’t care for or doesn’t deem worthy. He always walks around with his arms crossed, or arms on his hips, says and acts very upset/annoyed/angry/fill in the blank, but completely denies it when asked. He gets mad and says, “I’m not mad” (literally in a mad/annoyed tone of voice) even when everyone else around him sees that he’s clearly not happy. He lacks self-esteem and confidence, and lets me take control of everything. The very few things he has to do for himself he does’t do on time, and then I have to fix the problem. He is very passive aggressive. Things are always my fault. He never apologizes for anything. When my older child has a meltdown (not a temper tantrum, but a hard time emotionally dealing with getting ready for school quickly) he gets mad, yells, has no patience and thinks that me trying to model calm and compassionate behavior or hugs is coddling. His yelling and lack of patience only makes the meltdown worse, and certainly doesn’t help a 4-year-old feel good about their difficulties managing stress. He has very few personal relationships, and the ones he has are mainly superficial, even with his family. They will chit chat, but they never talk about anything. Everyone always has to be happy and they don’t talk about negative things, problems or emotions.

After he unloaded his stress by berating/screaming loudly at me for over an hour last year to the point I couldn’t stop crying for hours (and I’m not overly emotional and rarely cry, and have a very strong threshold for stress/do better under stress), we went about two months without sex. When he finally agreed to couples therapy because I was so hurt and not able to trust him emotionally, he told me multiple times both in therapy and at home that “I need to get over it”, and that I need to put the past in the past. The therapist wanted us to have more sex, physical contact, gave us worksheets/homework for activities and times to spend reconnecting, touching, etc. The problem is that we never really worked on the emotional issues, and I never got a genuine apology. I now have sex with him (not that often and I rarely “initiate”) in order to try to keep things tolerable in our relationship. 

If we don’t have sex every week or two, he will literally ask why we haven’t had sex, make comments about how it long it’s been (sometimes under the breath or just innuendos - he doesn’t openly talk about sex often and isn’t comfortable with it) or just complain about it, even though he never puts any effort whatsoever into having sex. We go to bed, lights off, no words are spoken, he just leans over and starts kissing me half-heartedly. Occasionally a “you look so hot” or “I wanted you so badly all week” will be muttered. I fake it so that it’s over as soon as possible. I really don’t think he cares that I fake it, as long as he gets laid. He’s not that into sex, and he’s not very sexual or good in bed, he just wants regular sex. He also watches porn and has told me that he always has, and that he never plans to stop, so at this point in our relationship, I wish he would watch more and leave me alone.

We just moved again and I’ve been looking for a job, but until I get a job and get a routine that works for me, it would be extremely difficult to initiate a separation or divorce. I have to protect myself and my kids, and so my efforts now are focused on getting a job and being able to support myself. I am definitely empathetic, but having grown up with narcissists/parents with narcissistic traits that were emotionally unavailable and a narcissistic sister, I’ve had to be strong and learn to be confident for myself. I have some good friends, but having young children and a very unsocial husband is very isolating. My main goals are to get a job, and to keep focusing on stopping the cycle and doing everything that I can to ensure that my kids won’t be too badly affected, and to be very cognizant of helping them become emotionally balanced, independent and secure adults.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I had a gf who was a dr. She had lots of acquaintances but no close friends.
I don’t know if she was a narcissist, but at the time, I dearly loved her and tried everything to the point of losing myself to keep her happy.
We were engaged, but wound up breaking it off and broke up because we couldn’t get along.

Let me say this, though:

Stonewalling and laying there and giving duty sex to your husband—— no two things will end a relationship faster than that.

Blame him for his faults, but understand that you have already divorced your husband in your heart. He may deserve it.
But go ahead and make it legal so you can both move on.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Narcissism fits the bill. And if that's the case, he'll likely never change. And he will make the D a difficult process for you.

Not sure why you continue to have sex with him. That has got to be painful.

Also not sure why you want to wait to file, if that is what you are thinking you want to do. Because if he is a doctor, you getting a job probably isn't going to help you in the divorce settlement. 

Something to keep in mind and something you might want to talk to a lawyer about.


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

Tron said:


> Narcissism fits the bill. And if that's the case, he'll likely never change. And he will make the D a difficult process for you.
> 
> Not sure why you continue to have sex with him. That has got to be painful.
> 
> ...


I do want to protect my children, but I’m also not looking to be an opportunist or to take him for everything he has. I’m genuinely not like that, and I hate women that give the rest of us a bad name. Part of the reason for wanting to find a job is for my own social well-being, independence and self-esteem. I have had to move for his job several times, and have had to do everything for the family and get the kids set up and make new friends. A job will give me a sense of permanence, social network, importance, and will allow me to be financially independent if I need to. When he and I met, he was in school full time and I had the career and made good money. I have had a job since i was 13 and have always been independent and very social. I really do like working and having a reason to leave the house. Being home all day, especially when I don’t have many friends in a new area can get depressing. I am a type-A person who thrives when I’m busy and have challenges. I sometimes feel like a shell of myself. Friends and family members who know that I’m not happy and that he’s not always the best husband or supportive have been encouraging me to go back to work. My oldest is starting kindergarten, I found a great daycare for the younger one, and if I can find something with at least some flexibility or work at least some of the time from home, it could definitely work for my schedule.

I have been out of the workforce for five years and have changed careers (I got my masters just before my oldest was born), so I’m not expecting to make great money at first, and might have to take something entry level just to get my foot in the door. I just don’t think staying at home with no social support of family around will help me with the marriage or possible divorce. We sold our house and are renting with this last move, and I have no debts of my own (he has a student loan, but that’s his), so hopefully having some of my own money to rely on will help if things don’t go as smoothly and amicably as I would like (and I’m expecting that they won’t).


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

In other words, "I want a life outside the home, but as far as he is concerned, I am willing to accept the status quo". Am I misinterpreting?

Look, if D is on the horizon, my recommendation would be to put yourself in the best position that you can and then go from there...whether that is taking less than the State recommends or not is totally up to you. That isn't being "opportunistic" that is being smart. And if your H is a narcissist, as you suspect, asking him for a penny is going to send him through the stratosphere. He will attempt to lowball you big-time and fight you on everything. Even you will be shocked! Just some food for thought.


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

You are definitely giving me a lot to think about. Thank you. Maybe I have been thinking about this all wrong. I will admit that deep down, without a job or nearby family support, I’m a bit scared of taking the plunge of separation or divorce, even though I am so unhappy.

I never in a million years thought I would wind up in this position. I always worked so hard to be strong and independent, and yet here I am, scared of leaving. I feel like a shell of my former self.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Does you H know you are contemplating divorce? Reason I ask is some guys are just dense and won't address things until the **** hits the fan.

I wouldn't want you to put yourself at risk, but who handles the finances?


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

I handle all of the finances, budgeting and investments.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

sadandlonely5 said:


> I do want to protect my children,* but I’m also not looking to be an opportunist or to take him for everything he has. I’m genuinely not like that, and I hate women that give the rest of us a bad name. * Part of the reason for wanting to find a job is for my own social well-being, independence and self-esteem. I have had to move for his job several times, and have had to do everything for the family and get the kids set up and make new friends. A job will give me a sense of permanence, social network, importance, and will allow me to be financially independent if I need to. When he and I met, he was in school full time and I had the career and made good money. I have had a job since i was 13 and have always been independent and very social. I really do like working and having a reason to leave the house. Being home all day, especially when I don’t have many friends in a new area can get depressing. I am a type-A person who thrives when I’m busy and have challenges. I sometimes feel like a shell of myself. Friends and family members who know that I’m not happy and that he’s not always the best husband or supportive have been encouraging me to go back to work. My oldest is starting kindergarten, I found a great daycare for the younger one, and if I can find something with at least some flexibility or work at least some of the time from home, it could definitely work for my schedule.
> 
> I have been out of the workforce for five years and have changed careers (I got my masters just before my oldest was born), so I’m not expecting to make great money at first, and might have to take something entry level just to get my foot in the door. I just don’t think staying at home with no social support of family around will help me with the marriage or possible divorce. We sold our house and are renting with this last move, and I have no debts of my own (he has a student loan, but that’s his), so hopefully having some of my own money to rely on will help if things don’t go as smoothly and amicably as I would like (and I’m expecting that they won’t).


Listen, you supported him though Med School, you have been a faithful wife, and a good mother.

You are entitled to 1/2 of the marital assets because you have been those things to him. 

You would be one of those women, if you were having multiple affairs and out partying every night and he got tired of it, divorced you and you took him to the cleaners. 

You have not done that, if everything you are saying is true, and you deserve your part of the marriage assets. 

Do you see the difference...


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

I do see the difference. I just see so many posts assuming all women cheat and are gold diggers that I don’t want to come across that way, especially since it’s always hard to only hear one side of a story or one person complain.


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

How are you?

I fully agree with BluesPower. Don't short-change yourself during the divorce~~that money is for your children. Make an appointment with a good divorce attorney, asap.

Have you heard of Borderline Personality disorder? He sounds Borderline--look it up. He either loves you or hates you, you find out which when you wake up each day. The world's out to get him, nothing is his fault... There is a list of "symptoms" online. Let me know what you think.


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