# Defining the types of cheaters



## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

This thought was inspired by one of Fenix comments on one of my other threads.

I will make the argument that there are three types of cheaters.

1.) The Fool: those who chose the path of the slippery slope.

These are those who just needed a friend. But wanted so much more!

Has narcissistic tendencies and a low self esteem.

2.) The Fisher: those who put out bait and wait for a bite.

These are those who actively seek affairs. Putting themselves on dating sites and catching up with old friends or ex's with the intention of having an affair.

Is a complete narcissist.

3.) The Jackal: the serial cheater, the player.

Committed relationship means nothing to them; it is just a mask or a part to play in order to appear normal. Those who trade their attention for sex and are everything they need to be in order to get it.

Is borderline sociopathic.

When caught the Fisher and the Jackal will always play the Fool. This is a part of damage control.

All types have difficulty with empathy.

What do you think? 
Please refine.
I feel we have enough experience on this board that we could come up with a solid classification for cheaters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> This thought was inspired by one of Fenix comments on one of my other threads.
> 
> I will make the argument that there are three types of cheaters.
> 
> ...


I had an affair. It was by far the most damaging, self-destructive, and selfish decision that I've ever made in my life and I deeply regret it. Yet, I don't believe that any of the above accurately describe me. Nor would anyone who truly knows me, my BS included, ever describe me as lacking empathy.

I know that it would be far less complicated if everyone who has betrayed their spouses could be labeled by one of three simple definitions. But, I believe that it is far more complex than that.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> This thought was inspired by one of Fenix comments on one of my other threads.
> 
> I will make the argument that there are three types of cheaters.
> 
> ...


4.) The Universal: **** sapiens.

Because they can.

What they can, and what they are trying to prove, is open for debate.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Back in the middle ages everything was blamed on evil. The Black Plague almost wiped out Europe. Only because people looked beyond evil was a medical solution found. By finding the cause, lives and Europe was saved.

The WW on this board are some of the most compassionate people I have come to know. The empathy they display is unmatched.

We can blame evil. We can stone. We can burn at the stake.

Or we can understand and find real solutions so we can help both BS and WS. Maybe at some point we can prevent all this just like other plagues.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

5.) The King for a day: Beds a skank and thinks himself a god.

He has yet to name his religion and spread the word. Isn't he special. A nice example can be observed here, right in our midst. Believe in searching.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

6.) Jester in the Marriage Box: Has no idea what obligation is. Relationship and commitment is a joke to these.

Claims to have been neglected, has an affair, thinks everything will be alright while banging another person.. Shrieks "remorse" when caught. Hence the box, comes out all of a sudden. Scientifically speaking, this one gets exponentially stupid with a proper implementation of 180. Tries to communicate, speaks to a machine.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Types of cheaters:

1) Someone seeking safety. In a physical or emotional abusive relationship. 

2) Some seeking security. Means to live or live well.

3) Someone in internal conflict. Self esteem issues or feels (or maybe has) missed something in life.

4) Love. Feels (or is) not loved and or respected. This is a base need and the reason we all marry.

5) Mental illness or issues. NPD, bi-polar or Cubs fans are included in this.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> 5.) The King for a day: Beds a skank and thinks himself a god.
> 
> He has yet to name his religion and spread the word. Isn't he special. A nice example can be observed here, right in our midst. Believe in searching.


Maybe I'm ignorant, naive, or simply not well read, I don't really know; because none of what you wrote makes a damn bit of sense to me. What I do know is that, while I may have been a WS, with one AP, at one point in my life, I am not a skank, never was a skank, and never will be a skank. And, not one thing that you, or anyone who thinks like you says, will EVER make it so.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

EI said:


> Maybe I'm ignorant, naive, or simply not well read, I don't really know; because none of what you wrote makes a damn bit of sense to me. What I do know is that, while I may have been a WS, with one AP, at one point in my life, I am not a skank, never was a skank, and never will be a skank. And, not one thing that you, or anyone who thinks like you says, will EVER make it so.


Well EI, I wasn't talking to you, or trying to offend you. I know what a skank is, and from what I've read so far, I can tell you are not a skank from two continents away.

A thousand apologies if none of what I've written makes any sense to you, they were my own definitions of people around me. As can be expected, they're not meant to be understood by every individual.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh, and by the way, if anyone is curious about who I am referring to by saying "king for a day" and "in our midst", go into search mode and type "i don't like myself and i need help".

Matt! Bring us some more lager.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I love our mattmatt


I love our finest British bloke the most.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Well EI, I wasn't talking to you, or trying to offend you. I know what a skank is, and from what I've read so far, I can tell you are not a skank from two continents away.
> 
> A thousand apologies if none of what I've written makes any sense to you, they were my own definitions of people around me. As can be expected, they're not meant to be understood by every individual.


Thank you.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

I don't know about categories but the one thing they all have in common is that they reach a special level of selfishness. They're not demons but they're not misunderstood victims either. People will put their spin on it one way or another but that's the central issue. Narcissism.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

DarkHoly said:


> I don't know about categories but the one thing they all have in common is that they reach a special level of selfishness. They're not demons but they're not misunderstood victims either. People will put their spin on it one way or another but that's the central issue. Narcissism.


In men maybe but in women it tends to be low self esteem.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

jim123 said:


> In men maybe but in women it tends to be low self esteem.


I can't agree with that.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think we can agree that Cloaked speaks of cheaters who have yet to garner an iota of remorse. The genuinely remorseful are here, sure, and have made big steps and strides in being genuinely unselfish by even sharing. But why get so offended? You obviously don't fit the mold of Cloaked's post. You are exceptions, not the rule. I think Cloaked (plus verpin zal & DarkHoly) is on to something...I hope the discussion continues.


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## skb (Dec 1, 2012)

"When caught the Fisher and the Jackal will always play the Fool. This is a part of damage control."

Excellent point and very true. In all honesty I'm likely a Jackal and I'm very good playing the fool and damage control. BTW what does narcissism have to do with being a serial cheater?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

jim123 said:


> Types of cheaters:
> 
> 1) Someone seeking safety. In a physical or emotional abusive relationship.
> 
> ...


My wife fit at least two of these. And GO WHITE SOX


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> We are sorry for what we have done...*can we please help you carry your burden*...its only fair since we put it there. <sigh>


In these few words, Mrs JA, you have captured the essence of what a remorseful WS sounds like. How many of us wish we were as fortunate as MrJA to have heard them.

Thank you.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I started this thread to discuss motives. I was not creating labels in order to assign judgement like some seem to assume. Here is an idea TAM. What will you do with it? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

skb said:


> BTW what does narcissism have to do with being a serial cheater?


LOL! that gave me a chuckle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I too had an affair. It was the most selfish, devastating, life changing thing I have ever done. The remorse I feel is sometimes crippling.
> I am a very compassionate, sympathetic, kind woman.
> None of your definitions seems to fit me either.
> 
> Could it be that "cheaters" are regular people...people that come in all shapes and sizes and personality types...and trying to pidgeon hole people into catagories accomplishes nothing.


You do realize that no cheater is going to look at the list and say "ohhh yeah - that's me for sure!". Every cheater counts themselves as an exception...but you're not. 

And sorry, but metaphorically sticking a knife in your husband's back and twisting, twisting and turning it, by definition makes you NOT a "very compassionate, sympathetic, kind woman".

Matter of fact, that makes you the antithesis of that. Cheating is cruel, cold-hearted, calculated deceit and betrayal. It's one of the meanest, most heinous things you can do to a person - _especially_ the one person you are supposed to love and cherish above all others.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

verpin zal said:


> 4.) The Universal: **** sapiens.
> 
> Because they can.
> 
> What they can, and what they are trying to prove, is open for debate.


You forgot one very important point - not all DO. Just because we "can" doesn't mean we will. That's what separates cheaters from those who don't cheat. Cheaters cheat. People who aren't cheaters, don't cheat.

See how that works? Very simple.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

jim123 said:


> The WW on this board are some of the most compassionate people I have come to know.


You need to get out more.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

jim123 said:


> Types of cheaters:
> 
> 1) Someone seeking safety. In a physical or emotional abusive relationship.
> 
> ...


In other words, 1-5 = no accountability. Every one of these takes the blame off the WS. Ridiculous.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Healer said:


> You do realize that no cheater is going to look at the list and say "ohhh yeah - that's me for sure!". Every cheater counts themselves as an exception...but you're not.
> 
> And sorry, but metaphorically sticking a knife in your husband's back and twisting, twisting and turning it, by definition makes you NOT a "very compassionate, sympathetic, kind woman".
> 
> Matter of fact, that makes you the antithesis of that. Cheating is cruel, cold-hearted, calculated deceit and betrayal. It's one of the meanest, most heinous things you can do to a person - _especially_ the one person you are supposed to love and cherish above all others.


I KNOW this woman (Mrs. JA) and in THAT moment in time she admits she was not compassionate, sympathetic or kind... Does that forever define her? Seriously? Does one mistake define a person forever? I hope not because I'm far from perfect but consider myself more good than bad (NO I am not a WW, I am the BS labels I've learned to kind of despise). 

The "lists" of cheater type. Or any type of damaged human sad and hopeless. 

She is honest and will be the first to cop to anything that remotely resembles her flaws. She is harder on herself than anyone else could ever be. She is amazing and has taught me (the BS) a TON in a dire time in my life. Her heart and spirit and YES compassion saved my broken rear. I owe her a debt that can't be repaid. How to repay kindness like that. At that time I was a stranger, ready to curl up and die. She is not a stranger any longer. I'm a proud friend of the "Adams Family"

How many of us could pass the test, that we are perfect people every hour of every day of our adult lives? 

I have may flaws. It doesn't mean I throw my hands up and say I failed once so I'm plunging headlong into embracing the dark side for good. I keep trying to learn and do better. Mrs. JA and many others here have helped me do that. And keep helping.

So it was the WW, who scraped this BS off the floor and she is like family to me. I'm proud to count her as a friend. 

I get the pain and destruction of cheating all too well. We are here to understand it, heal, grow, change. If we run all the Wayward Wives brave enough to enter this arena (male dominated) and take the negative comments, we aren't going to do anything but spin our wheels, wallow and not learn a thing. Just my opinion. 

I'm not attacking your opinion, don't take it that way. How you deal with your pain is your business. It is just an honest response to what has been acknowledged before, she is human, she made a huge mistake she has paid the price and faced the consequences. I'm honored to learn from this "cheaters" story and that of her husband who still loves and honors her. Those stories are few and far between. Even amongst "faithful" couples. Think about something like money issues or just plain neglect or everyday disrespect? That can be just as lethal.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Mrs JA, strangers on TAM are certainly not qualified to judge your worth or character. There are tons of haters here who will be eager to try, however. Please don't take it to heart. Especially when Mr JA talks about how great you are.  HE would certainly be qualified to judge!

Kristin, that was beautiful. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Mrs JA, strangers on TAM are certainly not qualified to judge your worth or character. There are tons of haters here who will be eager to try, however. Please don't take it to heart. Especially when Mr JA talks about how great you are.  HE would certainly be qualified to judge!
> 
> Kristin, that was beautiful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you come to a place plagued by people broken by infidelity, put your story out there and cop to being a cheater, people are going to express their feelings about it. It's part of the package. If you don't want people judging your actions, you shouldn't come to a place where people seek solace and comfort from being betrayed by their spouse, tell people you are a cheater and give advice. 

If you're OK with people telling you how they feel about such actions and behaviors, have at 'er. Otherwise, it's best to avoid such places.

I think it's unreasonable to expect betrayed spouses to just grin and nod and pat WS's on the back. This is an emotionally charged place that is littered with broken hearts and shattered souls.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Here's one shattered heart and broken soul who has been able to mend himself thanks to TAMmers like Mr and Mrs Adams, BI and EI, Weightlifter, wazza and many others who have inspired me to stand up for myself, and who have shown the courage to overcome greater devastation than I have ever experienced.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> This is an emotionally charged place that is littered with broken hearts and shattered souls.
> 
> and mine happens to be one of them...I did it to myself so I cannot blame anyone but me.
> 
> ...


I've always been one to speak my mind, and that will never change. That being said, I think it's great if you can help BS here. And of course, you are only accountable to your husband. But I will still voice my opinion.

What is it you think you can teach me?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Healer said:


> What is it you think you can teach me?


What true remorse looks like?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. JA 

You are not a bad guy. Keep doing what you do. You paid your price and do every day. You have taught me so much. You have taught my WS so much as well. Two souls you touched with your compassion, empathy, love and understanding. Not leaving Mr. JA out either! 

It has been my experience here that this is a supportive environment. Not just a place for broken, betrayed souls to linger in purgatory. Is this the first stop for many? But I hope there is a better place for all of us in pain. 

Does being angry, sad, broken and torn apart all jaded and bitter have its place here? Sure that is part of the process. But I can only hope that we can learn and grow and move forward away from the pain. Put it in our rear view as much as possible in a healthy way, the way that makes sense to each of us as individuals and couples.

I guess this is just the wrong thread for me anyway. A breakdown of cheater types there are so many books and theories on that...This thread will be endless. No use debating or defending.

When you all want to break stereotypical BS's down I'll jump back in tell my truth and take my lumps. People can tell me my damage and question my truth, or how I handled it all wrong. 

Sorry to have derailed such a simple list. Yes, I am still cynical and jaded. But I'm working to ditch it. It didn't protect me from being "betrayed" and has not served me well. The pain is still real.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I started this thread to discuss motives. I was not creating labels in order to assign judgement like some seem to assume. Here is an idea TAM. What will you do with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The title of the thread is "Defining the types of cheaters" Hardly uncharted territory. One that begs for labels with labels come judgement...Just my opinion. 

Again, excuse my part in this. I have nothing new to add to this.

It is a public forum.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Healer said:


> In other words, 1-5 = no accountability. Every one of these takes the blame off the WS. Ridiculous.


What does accountability have to do with cheating. Many people with 1-5 conditions do not cheat.

Poor are more likely to steal but most poor do not steal. People who are wealthy do not have to steal, yet some do.

It comes down to character. 

We can use labels or we can understand.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Healer said:


> You need to get out more.


I see you have been to Wrigley.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

I think this topic is a waste of time. It's seems as though your trying to give us all a way to describe our WS's a one word description that gives a generic description of who they are so that we may start using these deffinations as a quick reference to our WS's character. Like, trying to use a short hand word for quickly describing your WS simular to the way we use BS, WS, AP. We know what they mean and it's easier to type. 

I like all the details. I like the whole story. From what I've read I think its plain to see that it is much much more complicated. My WS fits in to all 4 of the categories. 



> I feel we have enough experience on this board that we could come up with a solid classification for cheaters.


I think it is nieve to think that anyone or even a group of people could possibly do what your wanting without generalizing and getting something wrong. Peoples characters are just common as peoples faces are. You would never get this completely right.

Why is this so important to you that you have to ask us how classify our WS?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Gonnabealright said:


> Why is this so important to you that you have to ask us how classify our WS?


When did I say it was important?

I am interested in the behaviors. The reaction to the thread is interesting I think. My thoughts were additions to another posters thoughts. Some have added to it still. A handful of people are irritated at me though I believe they are irritated at the idea that people will classify others for something they find embarrassing or shameful. Whether it be by misguided judgement or completely valid reasons many resent the attempt either way.
But classifications will continue. People have created the title of burglar and subtitles such as carjacker, pickpocket, bank robber, and so on.
It's interesting that even today there's a title of hacker and hackers that steal information are given new subtitles because it is a new type of action that has evolved with technology. 

Why such hostility for giving classifications to the different types of cheaters and their motives?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Why such hostility for giving classifications to the different types of cheaters and their motives?


I think that would be because it's not as cut and dry as you are trying to make it appear. Some may have multiple traits described in the OP, but would not be classified narcissistic or sociopathic. 

Any one WS can be classified into more than one category, based on the criteria listed for each. You can have a serial cheater who has low self esteem. It was pointed out to me awhile ago that even EAs can be classified as serial cheating, if done more than once. And I agree with that. So I will use that example. Is someone who is seeking an ear when dealing with a spouse's illness a narcissist? What if things improve then take a nosedive again? Does that make the person a sociopath if it happens again? I don't think so. And, those who know the person who did this would agree with me. 

I stated that it was pointed out to me that having more than one EA makes someone a serial cheater. I did this. The first time, it was rugswept..."keep it between us" sort of thing. Didn't really deal with it, except to catch and end it. Second time, I decided to come clean to my parents and siblings. I became accountable to them. Almost 2 years since D-day and boundaries have not been crossed, no cheating of any kind. 

I know it is difficult for some to believe, but we are not all narcissists, nor sociopaths. I do not have problems with empathy. And, "committed relationship means nothing to them" isn't accurate either. I made a stupid choice, twice, at low points in my life. I was ill equipped to deal with the problems my husband had, and chose the wrong outlet.

But, perhaps your classifications were only for those who were in PAs? If that is the case, then I can't say one way or the other. That was never an option for me. Even when presented with the option, it was something I couldn't do. Still, even some who have had PA, I wouldn't classify them with "narcissist" or "sociopath".


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> I think that would be because it's not as cut and dry as you are trying to make it appear.


Please do not put words in my mouth and begin to attack the imaginary person you believe I am.

"I will make the argument" those were my words. I did not give some unalterable decree or claimed my argument was canon.

I created this thread to start a discussion. I wanted to see what others thought. Is my argument sound? No! It needs to be molded, altered, approved or disapproved. 

Thank you for your input.

The following is not directed at you. It is not an attack. I am disgusted by a type of behavior. 

"Cheating is cruel, cold-hearted, calculated deceit and betrayal. It's one of the meanest, most heinous things you can do to a person -*especially*the one person you are supposed to love and cherish above all others." -Healer

For someone to be willing to spend hours, weeks, years to methodically plan on how to dig and twist a dagger into their spouses back takes one with a great lack of empathy. Every mesmerizing moment, every secret shared, every whispered passion given to anyone other to whom you are promised is an act of narcissism. 

We all have our demons and unwanted qualities. I imagine many are here to seek help to overcome them. Whether it be a demon of prolonged sorrow or a period of greed. We should help each other.

Again this was meant to be a discussion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> I
> But, perhaps your classifications were only for those who were in PAs? If that is the case, then I can't say one way or the other. That was never an option for me. Even when presented with the option, it was something I couldn't do. Still, even some who have had PA, I wouldn't classify them with "narcissist" or "sociopath".


While it may be unpopular here, I don't classify an EA in the same way as a PA. Imo, a PA is one step further.

I was one of the posters discussing this with Cloaked in another thread. I don't have an issue with his classifications and am sure there are more. This is not a definitive discussion, and he never made it out to be. It is more of a musing. Narcissism is extremely common with serial cheaters. Is it always the case with cheaters? No. Low self esteem (ego kibbles) is also common. Is it always the case? No. There are always those who cheat due to being in a low point, having a couple of drinks while on a business trip and just getting carried away. They may not be narcissists or have low self esteem. What they are is foolish and disrespectful of their spouses. *I will go out on a limb and say the disrespect is a constant.*


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

jim123 said:


> What does accountability have to do with cheating.


Seriously?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

jim123 said:


> I see you have been to Wrigley.


Like the gum factory?


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Healer said:


> Seriously?


Yes. If they were thinking of accountability the cheating in most cases would not have happened.

Low self esteem may be the driver in cheating but it does not excuse the cheating. The cheating is a choice. 

A long term solution for the WS must include working on the self esteem along with dealing with the character issue that allowed the cheating.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> When did I say it was important?
> 
> I am interested in the behaviors. The reaction to the thread is interesting I think. My thoughts were additions to another posters thoughts. Some have added to it still. A handful of people are irritated at me though I believe they are irritated at the idea that people will classify others for something they find embarrassing or shameful. Whether it be by misguided judgement or completely valid reasons many resent the attempt either way.
> But classifications will continue. People have created the title of burglar and subtitles such as carjacker, pickpocket, bank robber, and so on.
> ...


I come here to relate to others and heal from a bitter situation. I didn't come here to read about changing the vocuabulary. I don't have to read it so I won't. Whatever you need to do to get over your situation, it's your thread. I hope it helps you.


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