# Do Wayward Spouses EVER see their wrongs?



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


See it? Yes, and probably already does. Now, _admit it_? Your guess is as good as anyone's.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife did not, though that was because of her Asperger's syndrome. However, when she saw how upset I was after she ended her affair, she was filled with regret for having hurt me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Well, now that the holidays are over and my kids have left - I wonder if she ever thought about the consequences of her behaviour.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

bigtone128: I know it's tough to do and I understand the pain - but the best advice is probably for you to not hold your breath waiting for your wife to suddenly snap out of her fog. It might be a case of a MLC permanently changing her. Some people never come out of it.

Some WS see they made a mistake, others don't. Some see they made a mistake but think it's too late so just carry on.

Try to move on, work on yourself, being a great parent and let your WS make a fool of herself on her own. Try not to care. If she eventually comes around, try to be in a position where you'll be so happy with your current situation that it would be a real decision whether to let her back in your life.

Good luck in 2013!


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

They really do become different people after they cheat....


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> bigtone128: I know it's tough to do and I understand the pain - but the best advice is probably for you to not hold your breath waiting for your wife to suddenly snap out of her fog. It might be a case of a MLC permanently changing her. Some people never come out of it.
> 
> Some WS see they made a mistake, others don't. Some see they made a mistake but think it's too late so just carry on.
> 
> ...


Thanks Cedar....she is going through a MLC I think but I do not understand why this changes people soo much...

I made a MAJOR mistake over the holidays - my youngest son and I got along great and we started healing from all this crap and he disclosed stuff she did last summer with me and how it upset him...I was concerned after he left to university so I brought it up with her and how we should be concerned about him and disclosed what he told me.....I think she went to him and used it against me what an evil b****. Anyways any advise on how to handle this situation.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


Never entirely. But in some ways they can't help but to see them. The next question is do they really care? And again, they do and they don't.

Remember, marital betrayal is so hateful and despicable that people who do such things are 'different' and it's part of their mentality to hurt people as badly as they can for their personal gratification. Their very nature is lies and deception. So there's only so much they can really change.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Well, now that the holidays are over and my kids have left - I wonder if she ever thought about the consequences of her behaviour.


While she was enjoying her OM? NEVER, NOT FOR A SECOND.* Not even the most remorseful of the bunch gave a rats ass about their husbands/wives/kids while getting laid or out to dinner or enjoying the company of the AP.* Take that to the bank.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

BT- mine did not- her cheating was my fault. 

I was bad mouthed to her family and probably most others that would listen. I guess that is par for the course as a wayward attempts to shift blame for their own actions to someone else??

However, oddly enough- this Christmas the XW wanted to spend time with me and the kids in my house. I just said no thanks.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Thanks Cedar....she is going through a MLC I think but I do not understand why this changes people soo much...
> 
> I made a MAJOR mistake over the holidays - my youngest son and I got along great and we started healing from all this crap and he disclosed stuff she did last summer with me and how it upset him...I was concerned after he left to university so I brought it up with her and how we should be concerned about him and disclosed what he told me.....I think she went to him and used it against me what an evil b****. Anyways any advise on how to handle this situation.


A WS who is a parent will always try to appear like a "victim" to their own children. It is a defense mechanism. So your wife might have told your son that you said "B" when you really said "A". Unfortunately, you cannot control what your wife says to your son - but if there is an obvious sign of an attempt on her part to alienate you, I would get an attorney working on it. Parental alienation is as bad a betrayal as an affair. That's why you have to be careful what you share with your wife, especially if she is showing no remorse. She's only going to look out for herself, her son's best interests will be secondary.

The best advice I can offer is to continue to try to be the best parent possible. For your son, just be honest - if he is mad that you told your wife what he said - apologize and let him know that parents are human too - maybe you made a mistake by telling her. You're there for your kids and have their best interests in mind at all times. That's all they really need to know.


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## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Thanks Cedar....she is going through a MLC I think but I do not understand why this changes people soo much...
> 
> I made a MAJOR mistake over the holidays - my youngest son and I got along great and we started healing from all this crap and he disclosed stuff she did last summer with me and how it upset him...I was concerned after he left to university so I brought it up with her and how we should be concerned about him and disclosed what he told me.....I think she went to him and used it against me what an evil b****. Anyways any advise on how to handle this situation.


Call her on it! You did not make a major mistake. She dd in how she chose to handle the information you gave her. She needs to be responsible for her actions. Set a boundary that she can not badmouth you to your children. It undermines your relationship with him. MLC my *SS.! 

Is she getting regular IC?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Silverlining said:


> Call her on it! You did not make a major mistake. She dd in how she chose to handle the information you gave her. She needs to be responsible for her actions. Set a boundary that she can not badmouth you to your children. It undermines your relationship with him. MLC my *SS.!
> 
> Is she getting regular IC?


Ideally yes. But what are the chances she will take responsibility for her actions? At this point: ZERO. bigtone128 cannot trust his wife - so going forward he just has to be careful what he says - even about the kids because she has proven that she doesn't give a damn about their best interests - she will twist what he says for her own gain.

bigtone needs to forget about his wife, and just concentrate on continuing to be a great parent and to work on his own happiness without his wife. She's got to snap out of the fog, but there is no point wasting time trying to reason with her. For the kids - sounds like they are older and out of the house - so I would recommend that he just do the best job he can as a parent and let his STBXW ruin her own life ON HER OWN.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Never entirely. But in some ways they can't help but to see them. The next question is do they really care? And again, they do and they don't.
> 
> Remember, marital betrayal is so hateful and despicable that people who do such things are 'different' and it's part of their mentality to hurt people as badly as they can for their personal gratification. Their very nature is lies and deception. So there's only so much they can really change.



Sorry but you're projecting here and this scenario is not true for all WSs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Oh they see them but they take very little of the blame, after all if they took the blame that would make them accountable for their actions and we all know that is the last thing they will do.
One thing I know for sure is that being sorry and not taking responsibility for what you have done is no better than showing no remorse at all.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Think about something, anything you've ever done wrong and felt sorry for. You made amends. I bet, even if rarely, you think to yourself, "It was kind of fun for a while" or "Eh, it wasn't that bad" or something that justifies it. Don't we all do this sometimes with things, not just adultery?

Had to give my 2 cents.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

BT,

My wife finally did... but it took being caught. At DD it seemed that she had rehearsed her justification story in the event she was ever caught (6 years serially cheating). When she started explaining why, it was almost surreal to me. I listened and really tried to understand. 

What a joke. It was like she had created an alternate reality in her head. Her justifications were so flimsy and baseless in light of her lies and years of cheating. Her secret life was unraveling at the speed of light.

Within hours she was broken, alone, and in a nightmare caused entirely by her and her own selfish actions... blaming me, family, MLC, job, raising kids, whatever... would never work again for her.

For a few days, she was, best I can describe "in shock". You question... "Do They Ever See Their Wrong". In my wife's case, it damn near took losing everything that really mattered. 

She broke down a few days after initial discovery and told me the truth going back 6 years with 3 AP. At first I thought she was just trying to absolve her guilt, but it was deeper than that. She had reached "the precipice" (her words) and had been stripped barren, nothing left, pleaded for mercy, "please take me out of this Hell hole".


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Think about something, anything you've ever done wrong and felt sorry for. You made amends. I bet, even if rarely, you think to yourself, "It was kind of fun for a while" or "Eh, it wasn't that bad" or something that justifies it. Don't we all do this sometimes with things, not just adultery?
> 
> Had to give my 2 cents.


Maybe, but in adultery it usually rips the heart and soul out of at least one person and hurts many others. I hope the freakin' fun was worth it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Maybe, but in adultery it usually rips the heart and soul out of at least one person and hurts many others. I hope the freakin' fun was worth it.


No, MM, it wasn't worth it. Those emails and texts were certainly not worth what it nearly cost me. You are right, I was very selfish. I thought only of myself and how I was feeling while it was going on. I loved the attention. 

The question posed is whether or not we WS ever see our wrongs. Yes, SOME of us do. SOME of us wish we could go back and undo the pain we have caused those we love. But we can't All we can do is move forward and try to show our spouses that they really do mean the world to us. Everyday, I wish I could undo everything. And no, it's not due to being caught. I came clean to my husband on my own. 

So, to answer the original question... yes, some of us DO see the wrongs we have done, and we do NOT try to justify it after. While we did feel "justified" during the affair, it isn't always the case after.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


One word...NO! I truly believe that they find so many reasons to justify it by thinking we arent this or that to them and they NEED that from someone else. It feels good to them, the fantasy of it all. Of course fantasy is so much more fun then reality when you have kids, bills, responsibilites, stresses, etc.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Sorry but you're projecting here and this scenario is not true for all WSs
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Uh, yes it is. It may not always be conscious or done primarily out of malice, but infidelity comes from a place of profound self-indulgence. It requires the cheater to completely disregard the personal dignity of their spouse, the promise of fidelity they made on marriage, the sanctity of communal life, and the commitment to maintain a stable and loving household for the rearing of children, if they exist.

For these things, so fundamental to the human condition that they have existed since the advent of behavioral modernity and found expression in virtually every religion and culture on the planet, to be disregarded in the pursuit of emotional or physical pleasure cannot help but mean that personal gratification and self-indulgence is _the_ primary behavioral force in cheaters.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Never entirely. But in some ways they can't help but to see them. The next question is do they really care? And again, they do and they don't.
> 
> Remember, marital betrayal is so hateful and despicable that people who do such things are 'different' and it's part of their mentality to hurt people as badly as they can for their personal gratification. Their very nature is lies and deception. So there's only so much they can really change.


I strongly disagree with this.

Some people who cheat are like this. Not all.

I believe anyone with a sex drive and emotions can be tempted to cheat given the wrong circumstances.

And even with those who are calculated cheats, the cases I have seen are more about selfishness than a desire to hurt.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Some do. My wife did.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> A WS who is a parent will always try to appear like a "victim" to their own children. It is a defense mechanism. So your wife might have told your son that you said "B" when you really said "A". Unfortunately, you cannot control what your wife says to your son - but if there is an obvious sign of an attempt on her part to alienate you, I would get an attorney working on it. Parental alienation is as bad a betrayal as an affair. That's why you have to be careful what you share with your wife, especially if she is showing no remorse. She's only going to look out for herself, her son's best interests will be secondary.
> 
> The best advice I can offer is to continue to try to be the best parent possible. For your son, just be honest - if he is mad that you told your wife what he said - apologize and let him know that parents are human too - maybe you made a mistake by telling her. You're there for your kids and have their best interests in mind at all times. That's all they really need to know.


Thanks for the advice....I really feel badly for this....Thank you for your support.


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## berlin292 (Dec 18, 2012)

RWB said:


> BT,
> 
> My wife finally did... but it took being caught. At DD it seemed that she had rehearsed her justification story in the event she was ever caught (6 years serially cheating). When she started explaining why, it was almost surreal to me. I listened and really tried to understand.
> 
> ...



I'm heading toward DD, and my WW is same - unremorseful, she blames me for the affair. She points out that we had problems in our marriage before the affair, and we did, I agree with that, but she thinks that justifies or ameliorates her behavior and decisions. 

I can't imagine she'll suddenly see the light, or see the precipice as your wife did, but good to know that is does happen on occasion. 

Key is that is has to come from the WS. My advice, bigtone, would be to move forward with your life. That's the only thing that will make her see the precipice and change -- to know you don't need her, and are no longer waiting for her.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Silverlining said:


> Call her on it! You did not make a major mistake. She dd in how she chose to handle the information you gave her. She needs to be responsible for her actions. Set a boundary that she can not badmouth you to your children. It undermines your relationship with him. MLC my *SS.!
> 
> Is she getting regular IC?


idk - she's not getting any coounselling other than bad-mouthing me...I have been so hurt and devastated by all of this...I am tired.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

A truly remorseful WS will see the error of their ways and do everything they can to make it right. There are some out there who are willing to do this. My H is one of them and there are many other stories here on the boards that will back this up! If your WS is not willing to do this, not willing to acknowledge and own what they have done, then you are in a false reconciliation or the wayward just isn't that bothered about fixing it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Maybe, but in adultery it usually rips the heart and soul out of at least one person and hurts many others. I hope the freakin' fun was worth it.


Yes it does and I had my heart ripped out now for oh, I guess a total of about five years. She just put the finishing touches on it back in June, '12.

I know you are hurting and I am certainly not justifying anything, only trying to answer the original question by proposing a little different perspective. There is no excuse, none, which can make anything better.

Do Wayward Spouses EVER see their wrongs?........... Maybe, huh?


By the way, why the eff do you think I'm here anyway?? She effing slept with other men. I made my mistakes too. She stayed with me till she could get her business off the ground and her ducks in order, all the while trying to hide everything she was doing. In the meantime, she decided to sleep around till she could find a guy who was worthy of her. How do you like that? As she got closer to knowing what she was going to do, she started introducing me to other women. She didn't have the guts to try to work anything out. You have noooo effing idea. None.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> By the way, why the eff do you think I'm here anyway?? She effing slept with other men.


When I said I hope it was worth it, I wasn't directing that statement at you, I assumed that you were a BS. I was making a general statement to the waywards.



2ntnuf said:


> Do Wayward Spouses EVER see their wrongs?........... Maybe, huh?


I think some do, eventually, but some things just can't be fixed or should be forgiven. It all depends on the nature of the affair and the actions of the WS after DDay:


Physical affair vs. only emotional
Protected sex vs. non protected sex
Defiance vs. quick realization of the "crime" (more than one DDay)
What the WS is willing to do to "compensate" the BS for their pain.



2ntnuf said:


> I know you are hurting and I am certainly not justifying anything, only trying to answer the original question by proposing a little different perspective. There is no excuse, none, which can make anything better.


I was fortunate enough to avoid becoming a BS myself by taking some very quick action when my wife's sister reconnected my wife with an ex-boyfriend, so thankfully, I'm not the hurting person.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Sorry but you're projecting here and this scenario is not true for all WSs
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will disagree.

The very act of betrayal against a marriage, spouse, children and other collateral damage is so selfishly damaging in the extreme for their own personal gratification is such verifiable proof of their basic personality towards those that trust them and believe in them that complete chance is not really possible. Maybe some change is possible for them to see their wrongs.

Let me say this. It is impossible for a betrayer to really begin to comprehend much of the damage they do. They are as a person on the outside looking in. All they can see is on the surface. Not what is in the minds and hearts and souls of those betrayed. I would dare say all they really know is 10% of the damage they do. And from that 10% how are they to be expected to fully see their wrongs? It's impossible. Betrayers like to think they do, but that is a continuance of their betrayal in many ways as they fool themselves to feel better. The pain and damage of their betrayal not only never goes away and continues to magnify itself in various ways for the rest of people's lives. Do you think they even know that? Or want to? I speak from both personal experience and the experience of many dozens of betrayed I now know. 

Now, I might concede to you that in some ways a very very few may want to understand more than what is on the surface- and that is to their credit. But they still really never get beyond the 10%. 

So no, betrayers never really do see their wrongs in any significant way. It's the nature of betrayal.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I will disagree.
> 
> The very act of betrayal against a marriage, spouse, children and other collateral damage is so selfishly damaging in the extreme for their own personal gratification is such verifiable proof of their basic personality towards those that trust them and believe in them that complete chance is not really possible. Maybe some change is possible for them to see their wrongs.
> 
> ...


Do they fully understand it given that they have never experienced it? Probably not. 

But I have known some who cheated and then realised what they had done, and they now struggle to live with themselves. 

I have no doubt that SOME cheaters feel extreme remorse and regret. Of course, there are others who fake it to manipulate a situation.

Only in hindsight can you really work out which camp a cheater belongs in.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I will disagree.
> 
> The very act of betrayal against a marriage, spouse, children and other collateral damage is so selfishly damaging in the extreme for their own personal gratification is such verifiable proof of their basic personality towards those that trust them and believe in them that complete chance is not really possible. Maybe some change is possible for them to see their wrongs.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I can honestly say that I DO know how it feels. I was the betrayed as well as the betrayer. It was having been betrayed that actually brought me here. I didn't really know what kind of reception I would get because I was both WS AND BS. But really, I came tot he realization that the only person who matters in this whole situation is my husband. To say that no wayward spouse can ever truly see their wrongs in any significant way is false. Perhaps those with whom you have experience are incapable, but not all of us are.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Some of us are salvageable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I will disagree.
> 
> The very act of betrayal against a marriage, spouse, children and other collateral damage is so selfishly damaging in the extreme for their own personal gratification is such verifiable proof of their basic personality towards those that trust them and believe in them that complete chance is not really possible. Maybe some change is possible for them to see their wrongs.
> 
> ...



Not everyone is like your EXW. As for this "10%", pulling a number out of your a$$ doesn't make it a given. 

Once upon a time, I thought all red headed people were evil, horrible people. My mother who abused me for 8yrs is a red head and the guy that raped me was a red head as well. I therefore concluded that *ALL* red headed people had to be horrible. Same difference as your argument as far as I am concerned.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> Not everyone is like your EXW. As for this "10%", pulling a number out of your a$$ doesn't make it a given.
> 
> Once upon a time, I thought all red headed people were evil, horrible people. My mother who abused me for 8yrs is a red head and the guy that raped me was a red head as well. I therefore concluded that *ALL* red headed people had to be horrible. Same difference as your argument as far as I am concerned.


That's kind of hateful attack post.

But as one with a LOT of experience in this arena in a variety of ways. I'll stand by what I said. And I think I speak for the vast majority.

It seems I have offended you and that was not my intent.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> Not everyone is like your EXW. As for this "10%", pulling a number out of your a$$ doesn't make it a given.
> 
> Once upon a time, I thought all red headed people were evil, horrible people. My mother who abused me for 8yrs is a red head and the guy that raped me was a red head as well. I therefore concluded that *ALL* red headed people had to be horrible. Same difference as your argument as far as I am concerned.


That's IT! I'm going back blonde! Errrr... unless someone has an objection to blondes as well??? 

Yes, I know, that wasn't the point to your post. And I agree, the number that was thrown out there is absurd.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

I don't think that anyone can understand what it is like to have the mother of your children offer herself to another man.

So, the answer to the question in the thread topic is no.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> Some of us are salvageable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay Pidge, I would like your (and other WSs) opinion on something I am dealing with - I continually hear that my STBXW does not care about me..which I believe btw - however, I keep thinking she is stuck heavy in the fog and will come to terms with it when she snaps out of it....did you or other WSs who claim they are salvageable go through this? What made you snap out of it? How long did it take? and how would one know if you are sincere or not?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> That's IT! I'm going back blonde! Errrr... unless someone has an objection to blondes as well???
> 
> Yes, I know, that wasn't the point to your post. And I agree, the number that was thrown out there is absurd.


Maricha75 - I am to assume your are a WS - please review my previous post. and answer my questions......i am curious..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's kind of hateful attack post.
> 
> But as one with a LOT of experience in this arena in a variety of ways. I'll stand by what I said. And I think I speak for the vast majority.
> 
> It seems I have offended you and that was not my intent.


I have experience in this area as well. My sisters were both cheated on by their ex-husbands. My aunt cheated on her ex-husband. My mom was cheated on by her ex-husband (before she married my dad). 

The one thing I will concede is that while I was still involved in my EA, I had no clue what I was doing to my family. I never set out to hurt my husband. Everything DID start, legitimately, as a friendship. Even my husband would tell you the same thing. We were all friends, gamers. We all did things together ingame. My husband began suffering from depression and I screwed up. I asked our friend for advice on how to help him. This guy was familiar with what my husband was dealing with. Little by little, there were subtle changes to the conversations. Yes, I fully acknowledge that I could have just walked away, but I didn't. I did not set out to deliberately betray my husband, and yet, I did betray him. 

But I DID finally get out of that fog. I saw what I did. I saw how far I pushed him away. And I saw that he was starting down that same path. I stopped it in the very early stages. Perhaps his could be classified as revenge affair. I really don't know. But I do NOT blame him for MY actions. I am the one who started that chain reaction, not him. And then, seeing the texts between him and OW? When he said she was beautiful, yet when I asked him when he had last said that about me he couldn't tell me, because he had no idea when? Seeing the text where he called her sexy? Again, something he hadn't said to me in a long time either? 

Honestly, I don't recall if my EA began first or if the terms of endearment stopped first. I really don't. But really, neither of us is sweating over which happened first. BOTH occurred. BOTH tore at our marriage. And now, we are rebuilding. So, I'm sorry, but to say that all wayward spouses cannot possibly understand how it feels is ridiculous. Some of us WS are also BS. We don't make excuses for our actions. We accept what we have done. We accept that we f*cked up. And we are more than happy to prove to our spouses that we will do all the heavy lifting asked of us. 

I'm sorry, tbpg, but your experiences are not the same as mine.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> That's kind of hateful attack post.
> 
> But as one with a LOT of experience in this arena in a variety of ways. I'll stand by what I said. And I think I speak for the vast majority.
> 
> It seems I have offended you and that was not my intent.


I fail to see where I am being hateful or attacking in my post. 

I also have experience in this and you are most definitely NOT speaking for me.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> That's IT! I'm going back blonde! Errrr... unless someone has an objection to blondes as well???
> 
> Yes, I know, that wasn't the point to your post. And I agree, the number that was thrown out there is absurd.


I realized the ignorance of my opinion. I think you are a very lovely person....for a red head.....:rofl:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Okay Pidge, I would like your (and other WSs) opinion on something I am dealing with - I continually hear that my STBXW does not care about me..which I believe btw - however, I keep thinking she is stuck heavy in the fog and will come to terms with it when she snaps out of it....did you or other WSs who claim they are salvageable go through this? What made you snap out of it? How long did it take? and how would one know if you are sincere or not?


I will do my best to answer these for you. But the one thing you need to remember... no two people are the same. My fog is not the same as your STBXW's, or Pidge's, or even Sigma's, etc.

1. Did I go through the heavy fog? 
Yes. My EA lasted about 8 months. I really believed I was in love with that man and that my husband didn't understand me, etc. I went through the entire marriage history rewrite and everything. NEVER met the OM in person, EVER, but I loved the IDEA of him. I know, with that fog no longer clouding my judgement, that it was not real. I know that he put forth his best foot, just as I did. 

2. What made me snap out of it? Honestly, I really don't know what did it. I am not sure if it was any one thing, really. We are Christians... my entire family: dad, mom, sisters, kids, hubby, me...and we have many Christian friends. Everyone saw the distance between hubby and me, and they were praying. I know, many don't believe it prayer or anything, but really, that is the only thing I can think of that snapped me out of it. And it snapped me out in time to see my husband starting down the same road.

3. How long did it take? Again, I don't know. I would say from the day that my EA ended to the day I saw the texts between my husband and OW was about 3 months? But I snapped out of my fog a few weeks before that, I think. Really, I don't know how long it took.

4. How would one know if I am sincere or not? Well, there is a Bible verse: By their fruits ye shall know them. Matt. 7:20... in other words, actions speak louder than words. I could say all the right things, of course, but if I don't DO the things to BACK UP those words, that would mean I am not sincere. I am accountable to my husband. I am accountable to specific agreed upon friends, as well as family. He has access to everything. I don't keep my phone locked anymore. He can check anything he wishes, anytime he wants. The point is, I don't just SAY I am not the same person I was a year ago, I PROVE it, with my actions. THAT is what shows him I am being true.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> Okay Pidge, I would like your (and other WSs) opinion on something I am dealing with - I continually hear that my STBXW does not care about me..which I believe btw - however, I keep thinking she is stuck heavy in the fog and will come to terms with it when she snaps out of it....did you or other WSs who claim they are salvageable go through this? What made you snap out of it? How long did it take? and how would one know if you are sincere or not?


Almost the same story as Maricha. My H had a revenge A. That is when I hit rock bottom. For the record, I don't believe in the "fog". I was a horribly selfish person and I make no excuses for that.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's kind of hateful attack post.
> 
> But as one with a LOT of experience in this arena in a variety of ways. I'll stand by what I said. And I think I speak for the vast majority.
> 
> It seems I have offended you and that was not my intent.


We just need to be careful to be sensitive here, recognising we are on sensitive and therefore painful ground. 

You felt attacked, to be honest, not having a go at you, but I felt you were the one attacking. Your comments about ALL wayward spouses, include my wife for a start. I have some idea of her remorse, of her disgust at what she did, of the heavy lifting she has done at times when I gave up on the marriage. 

You are welcome to your view, and have every right to express it. But I love my wife and it hurts to see her attacked as you did. 

I hope this makes sense. I am not trying to fight, just to have a constructive discussion.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


I thought this was a rhetorical question. It's unfair to assume every WS is the same. Some are apologetic and will spend their life righting their wrong, feeling shame and guilt forever and others will continue to repeat their mistakes. 
I hope if you love her, she will show her that she is sorry. If not, then I hope you find closure somehow.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I will disagree.
> 
> The very act of betrayal against a marriage, spouse, children and other collateral damage is so selfishly damaging in the extreme for their own personal gratification is such verifiable proof of their basic personality towards those that trust them and believe in them that complete chance is not really possible. Maybe some change is possible for them to see their wrongs.
> 
> ...


I also reserve the right to disagree. All situations are unique, all WS, while following a certain 'script' at certain times during the A, are also unique. If your analogy was true for all, then I for one, would not be 9 months into a very successful reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I also reserve the right to disagree. All situations are unique, all WS, while following a certain 'script' at certain times during the A, are also unique. If your analogy was true for all, then I for one, would not be 9 months into a very successful reconciliation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. Sometimes it is helpful to focus on the script, and sometimes more use to focus on areas where WS does not follow the script, in large or small ways.


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## Harleyx (Jan 2, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> Now that the New Year started - I wonder if my STBXW will ever see the error of her ways.


I can tell you unequivocally that not only do I see the wrong I have done, I see the error, and I see the hurt and pain I've caused to the only woman I truly love...my wife.
Now I am doing everything I can to fix what I have broken.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

I believe my WS sees the error of his ways. Perhaps not exactly as I do but I do think he sees it. From what I can tell he is no longer in the fog. He definitely was not the person during that time that i always thought he was.....he was pretty much a major a**hole during that time. In my WS's case, exposure was the key. It was swift, broad, and highly unexpected. He could have lost his 20+ year career. I was, and still am if necessary, ready to leave. Our adult children and family know. He's suffered repercussions at home and at work with his reputation. He knows without a doubt this is it, he won't get another chance with me. I told him he could do as he pleases but so can I - and I will leave if it comes down to it (he cheats again).

I took a hard line with my WS and I found that was necessary for our relationship. He also snapped out of the fog pretty quickly. But that's just been my experience. Otherwise I only know the experiences of others by what I read here and a few IRL. The couples who rug sweep don't make it in the long run. 

As a side note, WS's older sister recently found out her husband of thirty years has been cheating. They are not reconciling; her choice but she is still devastated. Seeing his sister go through h*ll has also been an eye opener for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I think it's necessary to point out that there is a difference between seeing the error of their ways vs seeing the error and doing something about it.

Eg: My stbxw knows that what she did was wrong. In her superficial way, she has acknowledged that lying and going outside of our marriage for comfort was a bad choice. But that is the extent of it. She has a "what's done is done" attitude and going back and apologizing or showing remorse is too painful to her vs compartmentalizing the past and moving forward.

If a WS truly acknowledges the pain and grief their betrayal has caused and works to heal the relationship and heal themselves then there is a chance that R would work, or that they could move forward into healthy new relationships. But in reading these pages, you can see that this type of WS is in the minority. By the same token, the BS has to be able to forgive. That is hard to do unless the WS is willing to work. 

It's easy to get into a "Mexican Standoff" where each former partner is waiting for the other to show their hand through either forgiveness or remorse. That's kind of where I am right now with my STBXW. Have to say that in many cases (mine for sure) stubbornness and pride have a lot to do with it.


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