# Not politically correct, but how I feel.



## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

I have been with my wife since the age of 16 and have been married for 4 years (I am 29). We are both very fit and attractive people; she is a nurse and I am a VP of large company. Before I go on I must state that I am very attracted to her and love her VERY much. We have also talked it out, read a few books and have had consoling.

My wife has never had a sexual drive and says she has never had an orgasm. I have always dealt with this in the past by flirting with other girls to get their approval/feel wanted, but now that we have two kids I just can not bring myself to even flirt as i feel horrible guilt. Really the only thing that we ever fight about is sex (how much we do it and how we do it). If I do not push and beg I would be lucky to get it twice a month. I have put up with this because she is an amazing mother, amazing supporter of me and beautiful to top it all off. I am really only attracted to her. 

Honestly I am writing this because I am thinking of giving up and moving on because I can not take this feeling anymore and do not want to wait until I am older and have lost my appeal and drive. I know people write that sex is not everything and what about love blah blah blah..... Sex makes me happy and feel good about myself so why not pursue it. I will not cheat and she says that being sexual is not who she is and she will not change for anyone. I just feel screwed either way because if I move on I don’t think I would ever get over her and if I stay I don’t think I will ever forgive her for destroying my sex life and putting me through hell and back. I know I sound like a real jerk, but I am just writing what I feel and I am sick of saying the right things just to avoid pissing people off.

Need help from someone who has went through this or is going through this.


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

> If I do not push and beg I would be lucky to get it twice a week.


My first instinct is to tell you to shut up...

Do you have any idea how many people would kill to have sex twice a week consistantly?

What do you expect? Everyday? If you're going to walk out on a marriage because you ONLY get sex twice a week, I question whether you actually love her or not. 

You sound very selfish.


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## Sad_in_NY (Jun 23, 2010)

If she never had a strong sex drive before marriage - did you expect it to change?


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry I wish it was twice a week! It is twice a month, if I am lucky! Sorry about that.


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

Honestly Sad N NY, I did expect it to change because I have always heard that women do not get interested until later on. I also have thought that it was kind of her responsability to take care of that department being that she is my only source for it. I completely understand that I knew what she was like when I married her, but I did expect it to change and I also thought that I could deal with it which I was wrong!


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## Sad_in_NY (Jun 23, 2010)

REM - I didn't mean to attack you. I am in the same boat as you. Except that our frequency has diminished over time. 

If you had discussed it with her and there will be no change, I think divorce is your only recourse. Easier said than done - I know. But, like you I am wondering when I will get the monogomous sex life that I want.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Is counseling an option?? I get that you have talked about it, but sometimes hearing the importance of that stuff from an impartial 3rd party helps. My H never wanted sex and I started to almost freaking HATE him for that. He didn't know it was such a big deal until our counselor told him yeah guy, she NEEDS it and you just aren't putting the effort in. It got slightly better.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

When a woman doesn't want sex, I really believe it is normally for one or two reasons - either she does get satisfied in the bedroom or she is resentful of her husband. (These notwithstanding the fact that birth control pills diminish sex drive.) Either way, the problem can be reversed. Now, whenever I say this, the member responds to tell me what a stud he is in bed so let me just say beforehand, it simply doesn't matter how wonderful a guy thinks he is. The only thing that matters is how wonderful his wife thinks he is, and I think anyone can get my message. I am not trying to blame you for anything, Rem1100. I am simply saying that maybe what worked on other girls simply doesn't work on your wife. Perhaps she needs more or different. It is too easy to say "I am not a sexual person." That could mean almost anything, or it could mean she doesn't want to discuss such a sensitive matter for which she has no answers. So she doesn't want to hurt your feelings and also cannot help you in that area. In other words, if she's never had an orgasm, then she doesn't know how to achieve one. Therefore, she can't tell you how to bring her to orgasm or how to help her enjoy the sexual experience.

There are too many men who post about this same problem in their marriage. It is impossible the answers are all the same, and it is absurd to think there are so very, very many women who are darned near dead - born without the ability to produce the hormones, dopamine, and *ALL* the other triggers that make us sexual beings. It is time to stop thinking it. There are guys who will answer this thread, as they have done umpteen others, to tell you to talk to her, go to counseling, it is her duty, and all that other jazz. Rem1100, you and your wife have been to counseling. Did that give her a sex drive all of a sudden? No person, no book, and no amount of logic can make a woman WANT to have sex with her husband. Nothing can make her WANT him. Like I said he either turned her off in the bedroom and she doesn't want it because she knows there is no point, or he turns her off out of the bedroom so she doesn't want it because she is resentful.

I would recommend counseling had you not already been. If she is resentful of you for any reason, then I expect that/those issue(s) would present themselves in counseling. Either she doesn't have issues with resentment or you did not learn your lesson. Other than that, the only thing I can suggest is sex therapy so you and your wife both begin to learn and understand together what it is that turns her on.

I'm not a guy but can understand how you must feel. Before you go off the deep end talking about divorce though, I think you should consider sex therapy. You both will enjoy learning and exploring together. I will grant you some women may be harder to please than others, but I will not believe there are so many A-sexual women. It simply is not likely. What is likely is she finds sex too dissatisfying, too disappointing, so she conditioned herself not to want sex. It is inconceivable to think your wife has never, ever been attracted to anyone. Am I right? Would you say she was attracted to you and married you? So what are you saying now? That she's incapable of liking a man? It doesn't make sense, does it? "I am not a sexual person" doesn't make sense either.


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

My wife and I are severely lacking also. Twice a month is just fine for her, or so it seemed to me. We've talked about it and she says that she just has so much on her mind. Up until a couple of months ago, she was a full time student, full time mom, and a full time wife. She is a worrysome person by nature and has a tendancy to be pessimistic. We were stuck in this cycle of me being withdrawn because she is not an affectionate person and her not feeling turned on because I was withdrawn. 

Eventually we had to try and break the cycle. It has been much harder for her, but she has at least acknowledged that she has a problem. 
I said all that to say that maybe there are some underlying issues that she is dealing with that have not been told to you. There may even be some things that she is in denial about internally. I'm sure that you guys have talked at length about the problem, but maybe looking at it from a different angle will help.


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

Susan2010 said:


> or he turns her off out of the bedroom so she doesn't want it because she is resentful.


That's a good point. My wife has said something like that to me before. It wasn't that she was resentful, but more of there were things that she wanted me to do that I wasn't doing so she didn't feel loved. It took alot of effort to get her to verbalize what she needed from me. I had a tendancy to get defensive also and that shut her down. Recognizing what I was doing wrong definately helped in getting her comfortable enough to tell me what she needed.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

AmorousWarrior said:


> It wasn't that she was resentful, but more of there were things that she wanted me to do that I wasn't doing so she didn't feel loved.


That is also resentment. There are any number of reasons a woman feels resentful, and it's impossible to enumerate them all. One of the members here wrote this article that does a decent job to explain at least some of the things a guy does (or doesn't do) to cause resentment in his wife. But as I said where this OP is concerned, I expect most of that would have come out in counseling.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Susan,
I agree with what you are saying. I believe the reason so many men struggle with this is that they believe meeting their wives needs means avoiding conflict. And nothing could be more wrong than that. I will give you a recent example of two situations we had. 
- She spoke to me in a tone of voice that was not respectful
- She asked me to go sky diving

I handled both the way I "attempt" to handle everything in our marriage. 

Quick background: 
I have a mild fear of heights and in my youth attempted to rid myself of it by going parachuting. Jumped from 2,000 feet on a static line. Scary, fun - did nothing to my fear of heights. She knows about that jump. 

When she asked me three weeks ago to go skydiving (tandem jump with an instructor at 14,000 feet) I could tell she REALLY was excited about it. So I said "sounds like a great idea". In truth I was a little anxious and this is not something I would ever have initiated myself. 

We did our jump yesterday. Prior to yesterday we had about 3 weeks to "look forward" to jumping. And during that time whenever she brought it up I mirrored her enthusiasm. AFTER the jump she asked me if I was scared and I said that I felt a bit anxious during the 45 second free fall and again when my instructor pulled some VERY sharp turns once the chute deployed. I also truthfully said that it was exhilarating and fun and when she asked if we could go again I agreed without hesitation.

Anything she asks I either do with enthusiasm or if not willing/able to do it I explain why. Sometimes I let her talk me into something since on occasion I decline before having all the facts. But I typically only decline if I have a VERY compelling reason. 

As for when she spoke to me in a not nice tone of voice. I immediately asked her why she was speaking to me that way and not surprisingly she quickly apologized. And sometimes when I call "foul" she escalates. And that is ok also. If I feel wronged I am very tenacious. We don't have much conflict and I think that is true because we both understand and respect each others boundaries. 

I have seen some recent threads where the advice for the guy was to do each and everything on his wife's "honey do" list every day without error and without the expectation of a thank you. And that failing to do so meant he should expect no sex. 

I recall a situation where I watched the kids while she was away for a long weekend with her sisters and the first words from her mouth on returning were to nitpick. And my response was to mimic her tone of voice and say "hi babe I'm back. Thanks for taking great care of the kids while I was gone I really appreciate it." And then I just smiled and was silent. And she asked me "do I need to go back outside and come back in or can we both pretend I just arrived?" And I laughed walked over and gave her a hug. And then I said "next time I will try to remember to do X - which was the thing that hadn't gotten done". 

When 98% performance is a failing grade I "resign". But this mix of easy but very firm seems difficult. It seems the MOST difficult for the guys who are still "in love". 

As for the physical aspect of sex. In some percent - maybe 10 percent - the wiring makes sex and orgasm more difficult for the woman. In those relationships unless the man addresses that early on he has a much greater chance of ending up sexless. 



Susan2010 said:


> That is also resentment. There are any number of reasons a woman feels resentful, and it's impossible to enumerate them all. One of the members here wrote this article that does a decent job to explain at least some of the things a guy does (or doesn't do) to cause resentment in his wife. But as I said where this OP is concerned, I expect most of that would have come out in counseling.


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## seahorse (Apr 10, 2010)

A male here seconding this fabulous response - I agree completely



Susan2010 said:


> When a woman doesn't want sex, I really believe it is normally for one or two reasons - either she does get satisfied in the bedroom or she is resentful of her husband. (These notwithstanding the fact that birth control pills diminish sex drive.) Either way, the problem can be reversed. Now, whenever I say this, the member responds to tell me what a stud he is in bed so let me just say beforehand, it simply doesn't matter how wonderful a guy thinks he is. The only thing that matters is how wonderful his wife thinks he is, and I think anyone can get my message. I am not trying to blame you for anything, Rem1100. I am simply saying that maybe what worked on other girls simply doesn't work on your wife. Perhaps she needs more or different. It is too easy to say "I am not a sexual person." That could mean almost anything, or it could mean she doesn't want to discuss such a sensitive matter for which she has no answers. So she doesn't want to hurt your feelings and also cannot help you in that area. In other words, if she's never had an orgasm, then she doesn't know how to achieve one. Therefore, she can't tell you how to bring her to orgasm or how to help her enjoy the sexual experience.
> 
> There are too many men who post about this same problem in their marriage. It is impossible the answers are all the same, and it is absurd to think there are so very, very many women who are darned near dead - born without the ability to produce the hormones, dopamine, and *ALL* the other triggers that make us sexual beings. It is time to stop thinking it. There are guys who will answer this thread, as they have done umpteen others, to tell you to talk to her, go to counseling, it is her duty, and all that other jazz. Rem1100, you and your wife have been to counseling. Did that give her a sex drive all of a sudden? No person, no book, and no amount of logic can make a woman WANT to have sex with her husband. Nothing can make her WANT him. Like I said he either turned her off in the bedroom and she doesn't want it because she knows there is no point, or he turns her off out of the bedroom so she doesn't want it because she is resentful.
> 
> ...


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## goincrazy (Feb 20, 2010)

MrRomantic said:


> My first instinct is to tell you to shut up...
> 
> Do you have any idea how many people would kill to have sex twice a week consistantly?
> 
> ...


I second this! I am the woman and would love to have twice a week versus the twice a month I've been getting (that's with me pushing the issue)!!!!!


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

goincrazy said:


> I second this! I am the woman and would love to have twice a week versus the twice a month I've been getting (that's with me pushing the issue)!!!!!




Again, it is twice a month that I am getting anything! If it was twice a week I would shut my mouth and not be thinking about a divorce. Sex with my wife makes me happy and gives me an amazing amount of confidence, but when i do not have it I can hardly even speak to her because I am sooooo mad at her for not giving me something that I have no where else to go. I mean I feel that it is soooo selfish of her to hold back something that I have to depend on her for! If I was her only source for something I would respect her feelings and go out of my way to help resolve it or I would find another solution. Another great point is sex generally lasts what... like 10 minutes and you are telling me that I have to clean the house and do all of this other crazy stuff to make her happy so that she can give me 10 minutes of her time!!!!!! Really.... Wake up men this is called blackmail and we are so desperate for it that we fall right into the trap! I am sorry that I sound like a real jerk, but there is only so much beating around the bush that I can take on this topic. Go back to the 60's when people respected marriage and their roles in the marriage; what was the divorce rate.... What is the divorce rate now... Better yet how much has suicide increased since the 60's..... More power to you!


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## goincrazy (Feb 20, 2010)

Rem1100 said:


> Again, it is twice a month that I am getting anything! If it was twice a week I would shut my mouth and not be thinking about a divorce. Sex with my wife makes me happy and gives me an amazing amount of confidence, but when i do not have it I can hardly even speak to her because I am sooooo mad at her for not giving me something that I have no where else to go. I mean I feel that it is soooo selfish of her to hold back something that I have to depend on her for! If I was her only source for something I would respect her feelings and go out of my way to help resolve it or I would find another solution. Another great point is sex generally lasts what... like 10 minutes and you are telling me that I have to clean the house and do all of this other crazy stuff to make her happy so that she can give me 10 minutes of her time!!!!!! Really.... Wake up men this is called blackmail and we are so desperate for it that we fall right into the trap! I am sorry that I sound like a real jerk, but there is only so much beating around the bush that I can take on this topic. Go back to the 60's when people respected marriage and their roles in the marriage; what was the divorce rate.... What is the divorce rate now... Better yet how much has suicide increased since the 60's..... More power to you!



I do understand your frustration, but it is not just men who are the frustrated ones. I am lucky to get twice/month, and I am only 32. He is 31, and we don't even have kids yet. I feel like I got robbed of my prime years. It is easy to build up resentment, and for me my attraction to him completely faded. We have talked about this extensively and things do not change for more than a couple of weeks. Not really sure what else to do.


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

goincrazy said:


> I do understand your frustration, but it is not just men who are the frustrated ones. I am lucky to get twice/month, and I am only 32. He is 31, and we don't even have kids yet. I feel like I got robbed of my prime years. It is easy to build up resentment, and for me my attraction to him completely faded. We have talked about this extensively and things do not change for more than a couple of weeks. Not really sure what else to do.


Well I feel your pain because as with you I have talked with her almost monthly and have seen a therapist and have read the books, but she just comes back with, "This is who I am and I am just not a sexual person." I support her with a VERY nice lifestyle, I am a great Dad and I complement her daily.. So what else is there to do...Really I feel robbed as well, hence the amount of frustration in my writing.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

REM,
Have you ever truly "deprioritized" your wife? If you can pull that off while remaining fun and playful and friendly and kind - you might see a change. 

To do it you need to:
- Spend less time with her
- When you are with her - be more reserved - and I DON'T mean cold. Let her set the pace for saying ILY - maybe she doesn't want to say it every day but just says it back to you because she has to. Let her "hug" you if she wants touch. Be engaged without being "intently focused". 

If I had to guess you are WAY to serious about her and with her. And you are likely radiating this constant vibe of "why don't you love me as much as I love you and it's cousin why don't you desire me as much as I desire you?" which is a slow but relentless turn off for a woman. 

Have you ever let your wife chase you? Have you ever given her enough "emotional space" for her to want sex just to be close to you? 

FYI: None of this stuff is out of a book. This is all personal experience. It worked for me - humor mixed with reserve mixed with a certain amount of playful physical dominance (wrestling, boxing - ok well the boxing is a bit one sided - she gets to punch and I get to block). 

But if you accompany any of this with direct threats "divorce, separation, affair") you may just wreck your marriage. It is never that your wife is "unimportant" simply that other things become "more important". 

Some women like to hunt. Deprive them of the hunt and you kill the primary source of their desire. 




Rem1100 said:


> Again, it is twice a month that I am getting anything! If it was twice a week I would shut my mouth and not be thinking about a divorce. Sex with my wife makes me happy and gives me an amazing amount of confidence, but when i do not have it I can hardly even speak to her because I am sooooo mad at her for not giving me something that I have no where else to go. I mean I feel that it is soooo selfish of her to hold back something that I have to depend on her for! If I was her only source for something I would respect her feelings and go out of my way to help resolve it or I would find another solution. Another great point is sex generally lasts what... like 10 minutes and you are telling me that I have to clean the house and do all of this other crazy stuff to make her happy so that she can give me 10 minutes of her time!!!!!! Really.... Wake up men this is called blackmail and we are so desperate for it that we fall right into the trap! I am sorry that I sound like a real jerk, but there is only so much beating around the bush that I can take on this topic. Go back to the 60's when people respected marriage and their roles in the marriage; what was the divorce rate.... What is the divorce rate now... Better yet how much has suicide increased since the 60's..... More power to you!


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> REM,
> Have you ever truly "deprioritized" your wife? If you can pull that off while remaining fun and playful and friendly and kind - you might see a change.
> 
> To do it you need to:
> ...



Good call! I will give it a shot. I am willing to try anything right now.


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> REM,
> Have you ever truly "deprioritized" your wife? If you can pull that off while remaining fun and playful and friendly and kind - you might see a change.
> 
> To do it you need to:
> ...



I strongly agree with this. REM, I have gone through the same kind of feelings when sex in my marriage diminished. For us, we had TONS of sex before marriage, so you can imagine my situation was even harder to deal with when it felt like she tricked me with the old bait and switch. What MEM said is spot on and is something that I have had my eyes opened to. I realized I was smothering my wife and coming across as desperate and needy. In the couple of weeks that I have completely backed off showing love or initiating sex, going off and doing things on my own, and ultimately pulling away from my wife a little bit, I have come to find her chasing me some more. It's not a drastic change yet, but it is moving in that direction. Just need patience! 

Send a personal message to Blue Moon requesting the ebooks he has been giving out. I havent had the chance to put them into action much yet, but they seem very promising. The bits I have put into action seem to actually be working. It is really an eye opener to see what you might be doing wrong in your relationship to make your wife not want sex.

There is no reason the woman should hold all the cards. When you raise your "sexual value" and ditch the things that make you unappealing she is more prone to pursue you for sex. It's amazing what you can learn about your relationship gonig through the rough times. PLEASE research "over-loving" or "smothering" and read what Blue Moon sends you. Very eye opening.


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

Oh, wanted to add that when you are essentially "love detoxing" her you don't want to be mean to her at all, just kind of disconnected. If she comes to your for affection, return it with enthusiasm, but do not go overboard. Make her see that you are a source of abundant love, she just has to come to you for it. It's kind of an economics thing. Your supply of love was so great, that it was worthless, there was no demand for it. Reduce supply, increase demand!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Supply and demand is a good model - personally I use a thermal model. Love equals warmth. Too much love makes the recipient feel like it is a hot, humid summer day. NO ONE wants to have sex on a hot humid day. In fact if you are radiating heat - even non-sexual heat they look at you and think - I am already hot why is this guy making me feel even hotter? This creates emotional claustrophobia and sexual aversion. 

So keep backing off (radiating less love) until the temperature in the house is 10 degrees below HER comfort zone. And then she will come to you on a regular basis for "warmth/love". 

Initially she may get aggressive and attack you in some way for trying to change the "status quo". She may not like the status quo but she is used to it and it feels safe to her. So she may feel threatened. Do NOT say "I will never leave you" that is the worst possible thing to say. It will immediately raise the temperature to a sleep inducing 80 degrees. If she feels anxious LET HER WORK through it. How many nights have YOU felt anxious because she rejected you once again. 

So if she gets angry YOU need to stay calm. If she says you are pulling away you need to say "I am simply balancing our marriage - giving you the same priority you give me". Say it with a smile. 

Be prepared for her to try to rope you back into an overly warm marriage. Don't let it happen by "talk" if she wants more emotional bonding she can radiate more love at YOU. She fully understands how this all works. 




MrRomantic said:


> Oh, wanted to add that when you are essentially "love detoxing" her you don't want to be mean to her at all, just kind of disconnected. If she comes to your for affection, return it with enthusiasm, but do not go overboard. Make her see that you are a source of abundant love, she just has to come to you for it. It's kind of an economics thing. Your supply of love was so great, that it was worthless, there was no demand for it. Reduce supply, increase demand!


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Supply and demand is a good model - personally I use a thermal model. Love equals warmth. Too much love makes the recipient feel like it is a hot, humid summer day. NO ONE wants to have sex on a hot humid day. In fact if you are radiating heat - even non-sexual heat they look at you and think - I am already hot why is this guy making me feel even hotter? This creates emotional claustrophobia and sexual aversion.
> 
> So keep backing off (radiating less love) until the temperature in the house is 10 degrees below HER comfort zone. And then she will come to you on a regular basis for "warmth/love".
> 
> ...


Thanks guys! This is the kind of advice that I was looking for! All of the other advice was all about what I am doing wrong and how I should do more for her to make her want me more, which was really pissing me off. Why cant it be that she is doing something wrong, why is it in this new era that it is always the mans fault and we should provide more and more for 10min of their time? Again thank you both for the wisdom and I will give it my best shot! :smthumbup:


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Rem1100 said:


> Thanks guys! This is the kind of advice that I was looking for! All of the other advice was all about what I am doing wrong and how I should do more for her to make her want me more, which was really pissing me off. Why cant it be that she is doing something wrong, why is it in this new era that it is always the mans fault and we should provide more and more for 10min of their time? Again thank you both for the wisdom and I will give it my best shot! :smthumbup:



because it has become a trait of our society to not accept blame for anything. i have been reading this type of thread for a few years on here and had to cherry pick the good advice from the junk. i realized i could do things differently and had some things to work on myself. i also realized, after doing alot of that, that even though you become a better person, it may not actually change the result (specific to intimacy). then other choices have to be made. good luck


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with others about the pill that could be a cause and there should be an attempt to see if there is a viable cause for resentment. You seem like a good husband but, your assesment could naturally be biased.I also agree with the holding back thing. We are all creatures that are motivated by different things. Men by their hormones/d#%s whatever you want to call it. Some women may be more motived by the carrot thant the stick. 

Most women to not have a "drive" that makes them cound the days (not weeks) since our last ejaculation. I personally experience a physicaly uncomfortable feeling when i have not released after a couple days. I think this is something that women don't understand or don't want to understand. In the spirit of pollitical incorrectness i wonder how women would feel if we discounted their hormones the way they do men's. If we discounted their moodyness, cramps, etc and essentioinally told them to "get over it" granted the physical part for women is more extreme. 

No matter how much they will deny it many women use the sexual denial thing to their benefit. If they are now married getting what they want they are motivated to be intimate. 

I also think that there are women and men that are just not into sex that much. Since they don't see this as a problem, they are likely not going to be on a site like this until they are cheated on or are served with divorce papers. 

That said i would try the holback thing that the other bright contibutors have outlined and see how that works.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*specific area where communication rarely happens*

Susan,
That article you linked to is terrific. My observation is that the "nice guys" get the LEAST helpful information from their wives when they ask why sex is so rare. I believe that is because their wives have the most difficult and potentially dangerous message to deliver and are hesitant to say:
- You need to be tougher with others AND with me. You need to stand up to me. 
- You need to manage your fear response better - other than extreme situations - projecting fear is not an aphrodisiac to me
- You need to stop being MORE loving to me than I am to you. I don't want a bad boy - but I DO want a challenge. Stop being such a total puppy dog with me. You act like you don't deserve me by treating me so much better than I treat you. So you can hardly be surprised when I start to feel that way (that you don't deserve me/I deserve better) also. 
- Stop doing way more than your fair share in the marriage in a desperate attempt to get laid. Extreme, constant choreplay and other types of ass kissing just comes across as desperate. 
- Start pushing some boundaries in bed and see what happens. Be more dominant in bed. 
- Stop saying "I would never leave you" followed by whatever your needs are. Start saying "you need to make MY needs a higher priority for this to be a successful marriage". I would never leave you is the type of unconditional love only suitable to your children. It comes across as you having no boundaries. Trust me I WOULD leave you if you treated me badly for a long time. 

It seems many/most of the NG wives would rather have a stable, low passion marriage than a more volatile more passionate marriage because THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE USED TO and they have gotten a bit fond of being treated like royalty. Unless the husbands start doing some of this stuff and figure it out on their own it rarely happens. 




Susan2010 said:


> That is also resentment. There are any number of reasons a woman feels resentful, and it's impossible to enumerate them all. One of the members here wrote this article that does a decent job to explain at least some of the things a guy does (or doesn't do) to cause resentment in his wife. But as I said where this OP is concerned, I expect most of that would have come out in counseling.


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## pulse (Mar 24, 2010)

REM1100 - I hope MEM11363 methods work out for you and I do think there is something to having more balance in a relationship - 60/40 male/female is about right I would say, if not 50/50. 

If its 90/10 male/female, feelings of being taken for granted, entitlement, resentment, guilt can start to emerge on BOTH sides and once patterns set in it's going to be really hard to break the cycle.

So, again I hope things work out and importantly do make sure that whenever you do get intimate you spend time on trying to please her (maybe you’re doing this already in which case great, but just wanted to say this in case not.) Pleasing her must be/will be difficult for you if she is not able to verbalise or demonstrate what she likes or wants between the sheets but there's no point in having her desire you if when you both get busy she is not being satisfied - at the very least she needs to see/know that you are doing your utmost to make it pleasurable for her also and that her being satisfied is a high priority for you. Like most women I believe, I know I need more than 10 minutes to become orgasmic. However, it may be 10 minutes is all the time she presently allows you to spend on sex with her, which is a shame as she's not giving herself much chance to be sexually satisfied. 

Am wondering if there’s anything in her past which has turned her away from allowing herself to enjoy sex and is she concerned that she is not a sexual person? I know she may have accepted this but would she like to be otherwise?


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## pulse (Mar 24, 2010)

Rem1100 said:


> not giving me something that I have no where else to go. I mean I feel that it is soooo selfish of her to hold back something that I have to depend on her for!


Have you told her this is how you feel and what was her response. If you have not told her this, how do you think she would respond. 

As women, many of us don't understand how you men feel. TAM has been such an eye-opener for me with regard to men and their feelings about not getting enough sex. Maybe most guys don't explain stuff like this to their wives as they don't want to appear needy which ties in with MEM11363's theory - vicious cycle isn't it


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I DID explain this to my wife early on - very short blunt conversation about how she needed to make this a priority just as I made ALL her core needs a priority. As for being "needy" I said this is my "ONLY" non-negotiable need, so you need to make it a priority if you want me to feel like you actually care about me. 

As for the "nice guy" pattern it is fairly pronounced. The nice guys "tell" their wives this is a big deal but don't actually show it in actions. Continuing to saturate your partner with love when they are clearly indifferent to YOUR needs simply reinforces the idea that you don't deserve them, and that they will continue to be your faithful servant (sic) regardless of how low a priority you give them. 




pulse said:


> Have you told her this is how you feel and what was her response. If you have not told her this, how do you think she would respond.
> 
> As women, many of us don't understand how you men feel. TAM has been such an eye-opener for me with regard to men and their feelings about not getting enough sex. Maybe most guys don't explain stuff like this to their wives as they don't want to appear needy which ties in with MEM11363's theory - vicious cycle isn't it


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: specific area where communication rarely happens*



MEM11363 said:


> - Stop saying "I would never leave you" ...... I would never leave you is the type of unconditional love only suitable to your children. It comes across as you having no boundaries.


 I really do agree with this, all of what MEM says. My husband was so much like that post he wrote, and I must admit, he obviously lacked the know how to arouse me more often - probably why we had sex a measley once a week for 20 yrs. (unlike the posters wife, I ALWAYS had an orgasm & enjoyed the experience). 

He demanded nothing from me but gave unconditional love, no matter what. Just my 2 cents on being on the receiving end of the total "Nice Guy". 

And this nice guy suffered because of it too. 

Even today - with how far we have come sexually, opening up & alot of frequency, if I ask him what he would do if I sudddendly changed , shut the sex off , (which I vow to never do- I just like to ask questions), he STILL says he would stay with me forever, be grouchy but stay. I just look at him, and say "Your an A-hole". 

Some nice guys never learn. In his case, all is good, but for the guys really struggling. Make no mistake, women will tar & feather you- if you let them. It is not a turn on, know who you are , what you deserve, express this and she will RESPECT that . If she truly gets nothing out of sex though once she IS willing (posters wife?), this is another issue entirely. 

God, I love my husband, but really, he was never a challenge, that is one thing I personally LOVE, and usually nice guys marry this type, so go figure. Opposites so often attract.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Rem1100: 

Sounds like you truly Love her, but know deep down , you can't continue living like this - for your own sanity & happiness. This doesn't make you selfish. 

IF ONLY you can get her to orgasm or the desire to WANT this- for her own pleasure. It would be like the Heavens have opened . You will have a new woman on your hands, or should. 

I have a close female friend who claims she has never had one, and she could care less about sex, has zero interest. Her marraige ended in his cheating. And another who rarely has one, in fact she is not even sure if she ever has - so she must not have. I know her husband suffers greatly sexually, he knows when he gets that romp about twice a month, she just lays there & waits for it to be over. What a shame. 

Not all women are like this, many who can't still LOVE the closeness and want very much to please their man, not even thinking about themselves. If she is that or at least learns to be THIS for you, your marraige will survive & thrive. 


Here is a amazon list of books dealing with female orgasm >>> Amazon.com: i love female orgasm: Books

If all this advice leads to more of the same, you are still here in another year - same ongoing battle, Pick this up to help get your head on straight & make a descion. Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship (9780452275355): Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: specific area where communication rarely happens*

SA,
Your husband is a lucky man. You found a way to tame your "inner aggressor" and make it all work. 

If most women had your high level of self awareness, understanding of sexual dynamic and commitment to their partners happiness the world would be a better place.





SimplyAmorous said:


> I really do agree with this, all of what MEM says. My husband was so much like that post he wrote, and I must admit, he obviously lacked the know how to arouse me more often - probably why we had sex a measley once a week for 20 yrs. (unlike the posters wife, I ALWAYS had an orgasm & enjoyed the experience).
> 
> He demanded nothing from me but gave unconditional love, no matter what. Just my 2 cents on being on the receiving end of the total "Nice Guy".
> 
> ...


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## jasmine0247 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have been through this and on both sides.

I happen to be a very sexual person and in my marriage my husband was not at all. It was horrible. I hated it. We learned to incorporate toys to help with orgasms. I too could not have orgasms off of just sex or oral and the toys helped a lot.

If she feels pressured she isn't going to want to do it.

Women need to feel wanted in other ways to want to have sex. To feel appreciated, wanted, desired in non-sexual ways makes a woman respond better than asking for it. 

If I have not talked to my partner all day and feel neglected emotionally, I can't have sex. JMO.


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## Rem1100 (Jul 7, 2010)

Just to let everyone know; I have tried the "play hard to get," suggestion and it took some time, but it has finally worked. She was fine at first and was calling me immature for avoiding sex and then she started to think that I was cheating because my drive just went away. This is when it got good because she started checking my phone and started checking my email and when she couldnt find anything she just thought that I had lost my attraction. She purchased new clothing to sleep in and everything and after about two weeks of me not doing anything with her in revealing night attire she started to push me to do it! Thanks a bunch guys!! Lets just hope that this does not wear off anytime soon


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Woops wrote this before I saw your last entry so it is irrelevent now. Congratulations


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, now that she's on board due to being completely insecure within your relationship, I hope you are not just enjoying the increased frequency but also working on the big 'O' for her


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

This thread is heartening!

I am seeing so much good advice I will mostly be quiet in agreement with MEM11363 and other's excellent advice.

REM1100, continue on this path and even much much more to explore releasing so much you are holding in for maybe fear of being "politically correct", as your wife is waiting a long time to see the whole man unleashed that she fell in love with, even the wild and primal side. 

If you are willing to be the man to continue you will be amazed. 

I wish you well.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

Rem1100 said:


> I have been with my wife since the age of 16 and have been married for 4 years (I am 29). We are both very fit and attractive people; she is a nurse and I am a VP of large company. Before I go on I must state that I am very attracted to her and love her VERY much. We have also talked it out, read a few books and have had consoling.
> 
> My wife has never had a sexual drive and says she has never had an orgasm.
> Need help from someone who has went through this or is going through this.


OK- I didn't read all the posts, but OMG... figure out how to give her an orgasm!!! Seriously... it might take a while and it might be about her for a while till you figure it out, but trust me... it will be worth it- if it's great for her then she will want it waaaay more!

Don't take it as a hit to your man-hood- I was with my ex-husband for 6 years and never had one- then the guy I've been dating for the last year could give me a few a night... I was amazed it was even possible- he loved making me happy though... still don't get why he loved it so much- but I'm not complaining... and I couldn't get enough... but anyways... just figure out what it takes to make her get off and you will get ALOT more...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Blonddeee said:


> OK- I didn't read all the posts, but OMG... figure out how to give her an orgasm!!! Seriously... it might take a while and it might be about her for a while till you figure it out, but trust me... it will be worth it- if it's great for her then she will want it waaaay more!


not always true, my wife has multiple Os (not faked, promise) when we have sex, usually during foreplay, and we are still 2 sometimes 3 times a month.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Rem1100 said:


> Again, it is twice a month that I am getting anything! If it was twice a week I would shut my mouth and not be thinking about a divorce. Sex with my wife makes me happy and gives me an amazing amount of confidence, but when i do not have it I can hardly even speak to her because I am sooooo mad at her for not giving me something that I have no where else to go. I mean I feel that it is soooo selfish of her to hold back something that I have to depend on her for! If I was her only source for something I would respect her feelings and go out of my way to help resolve it or I would find another solution. Another great point is sex generally lasts what... like 10 minutes and you are telling me that I have to clean the house and do all of this other crazy stuff to make her happy so that she can give me 10 minutes of her time!!!!!! Really.... Wake up men this is called blackmail and we are so desperate for it that we fall right into the trap! I am sorry that I sound like a real jerk, but there is only so much beating around the bush that I can take on this topic. Go back to the 60's when people respected marriage and their roles in the marriage; what was the divorce rate.... What is the divorce rate now... Better yet how much has suicide increased since the 60's..... More power to you!



If she knows you're only "helping" her with "her" housework for this reason, I don't think it has the intended effect.


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