# Do you believe in the nice guy always finishing last ?



## Nosmoresmiles (Aug 25, 2017)

Not sure if this is in the right section or if it has been posted before but I wanted to ask all of you here for your opinion. 

Do you believe in this nice guys finish last thing that I keep seeing posted about the internet lately. 

I sometimes feel it. I feel I'm a nice guy, always tried to put the thoughts and feelings of my STBXW above or on the same level as my own. She is now in a relationship that's the complete opposite and she says she not happy but to me she seams to enjoy being controled now. He is not a nice person and that's come from others not myself so I ask why do women go for this type of person over a nicer guy. 

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying women I know everyone if different so if you do find any offence then I truly sorry and please forgive me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Depends on what you mean by “nice guys”.

The “nice guys” to which the saying refers are pushovers.

It is possible to be a guy who is both nice and not a pushover.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Nosmoresmiles said:


> Not sure if this is in the right section or if it has been posted before but I wanted to ask all of you here for your opinion.
> 
> Do you believe in this nice guys finish last thing that I keep seeing posted about the internet lately.
> 
> ...


Seems like what we are talking about when we say nice is really passive. Stop trying to be nice and instead be good. Try to do right no matter what. That means you may tick people off even your wife. Your last line is a tell. There are times when it's good and right to offend. Look at your end goal, is it to avoid conflict or is it to get the best results for everyone? Avoiding conflict makes you weak. It's good sometimes to say no, or negotiate what your boundaries are. 

As far as your wife if the dude is like you say controlling then she may be mistaking control for assertiveness. Or maybe she is just going for the opposite of what she had before. Thing is you can be assertive and still not be controlling. But maybe you think he is not nice because he says no to her, in such case then he is just not like the way you are. No matter when when someone tries to take advantage of you, your response should be hell no. You can even say that in a firm but nice way. 

What you need to understand is that it seems like women's instincts are genetically built to look for strength because generally it gives their offspring the best chance to succeed. Yes I am speaking in general terms but the truth is this IS how it works as you are discovering. It IS a genetic thing because until modern times they didn't have the time or energy to do anything else but raise children. This was an all consuming job, and in lots of ways still is today. It's only in the last 150 years that we have the tech to allow them to not be as involved in their young children's life. Genetically humans haven't caught up. Hence strength, both physical and even more so today emotional and mental is attractive. There are genetic factors in lots of aspects of social interaction. 

And yes passive men get cheated on.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Nosmoresmiles said:


> Not sure if this is in the right section or if it has been posted before but I wanted to ask all of you here for your opinion.
> 
> Do you believe in this nice guys finish last thing that I keep seeing posted about the internet lately.
> 
> ...


There’s a difference between being a “nice” guy and a decent guy and you fall one hundred percent into the nice guy role.On your last thread you were feeling bad because you broke up with your ex wife.She was separated from you and had cheated with another guy who she was still sleeping with but you felt guilty,even though you had given her numerous chances to reconcile.
The more chances you give someone the less respect they have for you,they will ignore all your boundaries because they know another chance will be given.They aren’t afraid of losing you because you won’t walk away and they relax in the knowledge that you will always take them back and you will forgive them anything.Dont allow anyone to be so relaxed that they forget your worth.
And never forget your own worth.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*In a word, "No!" You have "strong" nice guys, just as you have weak and subservient ones!

And always never feel guilty of your actions if you should ever discover that a spouse is two-timing you!

After all, that fateful decision that they made to do so was solely their own and certainly not you!

The best thing that you could ever hope to do for yourself at this juncture is to immediately "180 her" and to move on with your life!*


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

notice how op apologizes and asks for forgiveness at the end of the post...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

"Nice guy" can mean different things. I'm a "nice guy" by the old fashioned definition of someone who goes out of their way to make things better for other people and to treat people fairly.  I have most definitely not finished last - with the glaring exception of my sex life, where a non-nice guy would have left his girlfriend / wife to find someone who wanted more sex.

OTOH, other than lack of sex, I think I am extremely fortunate in my spouse. I'm pretty lucky in the rest of life as well.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

if they are very good lovers they should ;-)


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

M042 said:


> notice how op apologizes and asks for forgiveness at the end of the post...


Yeah it's a tell.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

@Nosmoresmiles, 

Why do you think you are finishing last in this situation, when ...she's the one that's not happy? ...she's the one with someone who doesn't value her? ...she's the one who can't find happiness in her life? 

There are many good women out there, that would show respect to a man who respects her needs as much as his own. 

You gave your best, it's not what she wants, let her go... there's something wrong inside her... the 180 is your friend... 

Best


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

What is it with most people, that they don't want to hear the truth without it being completely sugar coated?

No wonder why there isn't a single politician that would tell straight out the truth to the masses.

Why can't we just call it like it is: a "weak individual" not a "nice guy", because that's what a "nice guy" really means.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Yes.

Nice guys finish last.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

NoMoreSmiles: I registered at this forum just for your question.

You need to read everyone's post as there is a lot of truth in most of them. My following comments are going to come off as very harsh but I will end with some positive.

Nice guys (the kind that you are): In the eyes of a women come off as weak, pathetic, disrespectful of self, have no boundary that can't be pushed over, and are easy to control.
He allows the other to be in control of their own emotions and their level of own self worth. Women do indeed get with these guys as it is an
easy way to control everything in the relationship. This guy always has a terrible sex life and gets no respect and can not figure out why.

Nice guys (the other kind): Are the complete opposite of the above but do so in a way that is not disrespectful. They in full know their own worth, value, and needs. They are
not "a-holes" and fully capable of sharing their needs and understanding that the needs of both parties are important. They do not engage in "If I do this
then you should do this" type of thinking. He has a good sex life, his wife respects him, and he respects her. He is not her "toy"

Bad guys: they are nice guy (the other kind) but lack the respectful part. 

The positive: You can reverse your mind set if you understand what you are doing....do indeed understand you are doing it to yourself! Start by reading the book: No More Mr. Nice Guy.


When everyone reads your post.... It is easy to see that you are the nice guy no MAN wants to be.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Edit to the above: 

I think I could have said a few more positive things:

You do DESERVE it to yourself to become the other type of nice guy if that is what you want.

You CAN find a women that makes an acceptable partner as you are.


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## username77 (Dec 27, 2017)

People forget that we're animals and the laws of nature (i.e. survival of the fittest etc..) are still very much in play. If "finishing last" means less choice with women, likely less money and responsibility at work, smaller home, etc... is "finishing last", then yes nice guys do finish last without a doubt. Men who are manipulative *******s will typically be very successful in business and with women. Men on the APD spectrum with psychopathy and/or narcissism are typically viewed as very charming and successful. BUT they're miserable human beings for the most part, those who treat people kindly and detach from chasing wealth, women, etc... are typically infinitely more happy.

Look at Jesus, that's what we do to "nice guys", we exploit their kindness and nail them to a cross.

It's a ****ing dog eat dog world man.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think there's very definitely a difference between being a "nice" guy and being a _good_ man. Someone who is focused on being nice all the time is much more likely to be conflict avoidant, passive-aggressive, and to be a bit of a doormat. That's not attractive. So, strive to be a good man and don't worry about seeming to be nice to everyone. Do what's right. Take charge of your life. Have good boundaries for yourself and reasonable expectations for the people in your life. You can be kind, loving, faithful, decent, and good without being weak, even if sometimes not everyone thinks of you as being nice. 

There's actually a book that addresses all this. OP, you might want to read No More Mister Nice Guy. It will help you decide if you're too focused on being perceived to be a nice guy and would be a healthier man if you changed your perspective on all that just a bit. 

Oh, and your cheating wife leaving you isn't you "finishing last". It's her - or more correctly, the universe - doing you a favor. A good man wants, and deserves, a good woman. She wasn't one. So, stop trying to be so nice about everything and figure out how to fix your picker so you can tell the difference between a _good_ woman and a "nice" girl.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Good job Rowan !


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I believe that truly nice people rarely finish last. As has been repeatedly stated above, there is a big difference between "faux" nice (just being an agreeable pushover) and really being nice (golden rule approach). 

In my personal experience, the nice people have the best marriages. At work, while nice isn't the primary characteristic leading to advancement, it definitely helps a lot. In friendship circles, the people that aren't nice end up much worse off than those that are.

The golden rule. It has worked for me. I'm nice with a wonderful marriage to a wonderful (and nice wife), wonderful friends, and a very successful career. I think all of those things would have been much harder to achieve if I wasn't nice.


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