# Incredibly worried about fiancee's upcoming hen party



## Worried235

My fiancee is having a hen do/bachelorette party in a different city next week. We haven't talked about it much as I am conscious of not wanting to appear controlling. We have both been married before. I was cheated on during a long marriage and had a traumatic break up.

I don't know if I'm being over sensitive, but one of my boundaries is no male strippers. Fiancee's friends and sister have been organising everything in secret and won't discuss anything when I am around.

I became increasingly worried about what was being planned and checked back on fiancee's Facebook account from when she was last married (I haven't done it before because thought it wasn't my business). There is a picture from her last bachelorette of her licking a stripper's buttock. The comments underneath could be interpreted to say something more went on. (Comments like "he was up for everything but we were real ladies " and jokes about nuts). This was about 8 years ago as her marriage failed quickly(relationship was already on the rocks when they were married).

A good friend of mine was due to go the party, but felt she was put off by the organiser and has now had to make other arrangements.

I have raised my concerns with fiancee and told her contact such as in the picture is not being faithful and my feelings about this in general. She has said her sister has promised her that there is nothing like that arranged. I don't trust her sister and know she has problems with boundaries. The friend arranging it has an odd attitude to sex - constantly boasts about previous sexual "conquests" on front of her husband etc.

_I am very aware that I might be over sensitive because of being cheated on in the past_. It wrecked my life and my children's lives (and my ex's but hey ho). I do trust fiancee as far as it goes and have no problem with her holidaying on her own with her child, or going out with friends etc. I never feel the need to check up on her.

I have brought it up with her in the past and she didn't really engage with anything about potential entertainment at this party. I think that, for a couple both over 40 and both on the second time around they are a bit odd. I am not having a stag party. 

She is currently on holiday, returning in the next few days so we haven't been able to discuss this in person and my feelings have been all over the place.

As a couple we go out all the time and have a great time.

I don't want to walk away from the relationship as she is a perfect partner in every other respect.

- can I trust her because she was, in my eyes, unfaithful at her last hen party
- I have already raised this with her before now, but was not aware of the stripper thing
- what is your advice, bearing in mind this woman is totally different from my ex. and I have no reason to leave the relationship because nothing has happened.


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## Andy1001

You don’t trust your fiancée. 
Don’t get married to someone who you don’t trust. 
It’s not a good idea.


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## lovelygirl

I don't understand these ladies ... if something really bothers your SO why do you still let it happen???? 

If I knew that my SO would get really annoyed/stressed about something related to other men (whether it's close company/strip clubs/or whatever) I wouldn't do it out of respect and empathy for my SO. 

Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

Why is another man's naked body more important than the person that is waiting home for me and that should be more important to me, than some random boy dancing naked. Especially, if my SO has expressed some worrisome or not-being-comfortable with these type of parties.

Obviously, I'd expect him not to go to a strip club as well (if he doesn't want me to go to one or have my crew organize one for me. )

But again...I just don't get it! I'm VERY outgoing as a person, VERY sociable, I LOVE dancing and socialising (i'm very extrovert) .... YET I wouldn't do something that would be considered a breach of respect for the relationship.

So, OP, being outgoing doesn't justify her tendencies to show disrespect towards you.


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## Livvie

andy1001 said:


> you don’t trust your fiancée.
> Don’t get married to someone who you don’t trust.
> It’s not a good idea.


this


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## Tilted 1

Livvie said:


> andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you don’t trust your fiancée.
> Don’t get married to someone who you don’t trust.
> It’s not a good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> this
Click to expand...

This^^^^. 3rd time is a charm.


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## ConanHub

Umm... She still has pictures on a FB account of her licking stripper butt???

To each their own dude. It doesn't sound like you two have your boundaries well established and you are not comfortable with her.

Mrs. C could go with anyone and, as long as I am satisfied about safety, I know she is committed to our marriage so no nonsense is going to occur without bringing out her wrath.

Nobody messes with her marriage!:wink2:


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## Casual Observer

It remains a strange thing to me, the totally-incompatible views of boundaries people discover about each other and they still go ahead and get married. It's a recipe for disaster, if not soon, then possibly many years down the road, even if those boundaries change over time to become more compatible.

How do people get so far into their relationship that this isn't discovered prior to a bachelor party? 

When my wife and I were married, 40 years ago, there was a required 3-session (I think?) counseling session by our church. And just about everything talked about was going forward; nothing about the past. Or perhaps too much emphasis on forgiven sins of the past and no mention how things could come back to haunt you later. 

Going into marriage. both parties should be on the same page regarding things from the past and boundaries. Perhaps they don't have to be the same but at least respect and more-than-tolerance for the other person's view. Love does not conquer all. It is not inevitable that a couple grows together over time. Make sure the odds are in your favor, not stacked against you.


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## BioFury

Worried235 said:


> The whole experience of dealing with the affair in my first marriage has left me doubting everything. Her last husband was incredibly controlling, so I am very conscious of not being like him.
> 
> We need a talk about all this and it's good it came about now before it's too late. My fiancee is very committed to our relationship. I can't say much more because it could give away my real ID, but other than this she is perfect.


If you fail to establish healthy boundaries, your wife will have no respect for you, and your marriage will likely fail. A hen party like the one you've described simply isn't a good idea, regardless of who your fiance is. Which is possibly why you're uncomfortable with it.

If you're on a diet, don't go to Krispy Kreme and stare at their donuts. It's common sense.


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## lovelygirl

Casual Observer said:


> It remains a strange thing to me, the totally-incompatible views of boundaries people discover about each other and they still go ahead and get married. It's a recipe for disaster, if not soon, then possibly many years down the road, even if those boundaries change over time to become more compatible.
> 
> How do people get so far into their relationship that this isn't discovered prior to a bachelor party?


Exactly!!!

Bachelor party is not the problem per se, but it's HOW you think the bach. party should be organised that has to do with boundaries, principles, respect ... and so on.
If two people have different opinions and perspectives, it means that they rely on different principles which means that they have a different set of rules/boundaries. 

Throughout your relationship with her, OP, you should have discussed these things before even proposing to her to begin with. 

Plus, I'm afraid her conservative EXH might have caused her damage and now she thinks she needs to regain her lost freedom. :|


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## TAMAT

BHB,

You wrote , "There is a picture of her licking a bare stripper's buttock with some comments which suggest to me there could have been some contact with at least some of the other women."

I think you both need to disclose your sexual pasts to each other. 

There's a chance you picked someone like your ex whom you may have loved in spite of her cheating on you keep your eyes open. Oscar Wilde said a man marries again because he adored his first wife.

It's worrying that you didn't know about either of her contact with other women or revolting stripper types.


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## TAMAT

BHB,

If you do marry watch if she changes into someone else


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## alte Dame

This is just the beginning of a steady flow of worry and insecurity for you. I'm assuming you know that, but have decided to go ahead and get married anyway. If so, then make your boundaries clear, let her know that a PI will be tailing the party (sorry! joke), and then just let go of the outcome.

Honestly, the best you can do given your decisions here is to make your expectations clear. You don't really trust her, but will marry her anyway. This is your choice, so start making concrete plans for how to behave when the red flags start flying.


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## sunsetmist

Do not let ex-wife's affair and lack of character steal your joy now. 

Do you trust your fiancee or not? Discuss clear boundaries immediately. I presume all are more mature at this stage of life?


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## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> The whole experience of dealing with the affair in my first marriage has left me doubting everything. Her last husband was incredibly controlling, so I am very conscious of not being like him.
> 
> We need a talk about all this and it's good it came about now before it's too late. My fiancee is very committed to our relationship. I can't say much more because it could give away my real ID, but other than this she is perfect.


When you have your “talk” about this be prepared for her to try and gaslight you. What I mean is if she starts telling you that you betrayed her by checking her Facebook page or accusing you of not trusting her. 
She has proven that in the right circumstances she is eminently capable of inappropriate behavior. Kissing some strippers ass would be a deal breaker for a lot of men but the fact that she has kept the photo would be a deal breaker for every man I know. 
You say that her ex husband was incredibly controlling. Are you surprised? After all he had a wife who enjoyed kissing another dudes ass so much that not only did she keep the photo she had it in a public domain which anyone could access. Do not be surprised if some of her more crazy “friends” start showing this photo around.
She may tell you that nothing bad is going to happen this time but peer pressure is a huge problem in these situations. And her sister seems to be equally immature and it’s her that’s organizing this party. 
I would tell her my concerns and then stop talking. If she still wants her hen party then she wouldn’t be my fiancée afterwards.


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## Blondilocks

Any woman who licks a stripper's bare behind is not passive.


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## phillybeffandswiss

I am going to whittle down your excuse in my words.

My fiancé is perfect, except she likes to lick strange ass at bachelor parties.

I mean, you can discuss boundaries, but are you going to check her at every party, event or GNO she decides to go on?

Are you going to be okay when you realize, years down the road, “controlling” is sometimes used to skirt boundaries?


You need to have a long talk and see how she reacts. Marriage, even short term, is life altering. You don’t want another “ex” when you have early warning signs.


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## Diana7

Worried235 said:


> Background: I posted on these boards extensively a few years ago after my then wife had a long term affair. Over several years things fell apart, but my ex and my new fiancee know my user name on here so I've created a new account - I hope that is within the rules?
> 
> I'm not sure if Americans call a hen do a bachelorette party?
> 
> So after a bit of a rocky start with a new girlfriend and after several years, we are getting married in a couple of months. She is the most amazing woman I have ever met and far more loving, understanding and supportive than my ex ever was. We have amazing times, going out all the time and on holiday. We love to dance and party (as in, neither of us is a quiet stay at home type!)
> 
> I knew from the moment we were engaged that I would be worried about her hen party. Some of her friends are boisterous and I don't trust them. She knows I think male strippers are a red line for me. She has been out on her own many times and even stayed over with (female!) friends and I'm always totally fine with it. She's even been on holiday with her son a few times and it doesn't bother me - other than that we miss each other so much.
> 
> I made the mistake of checking on her old Facebook posts from when she was last married. There is a picture of her licking a bare stripper's buttock with some comments which suggest to me there could have been some contact with at least some of the other women. She's on holiday at the moment and I already let her know I'm a bit apprehensive about her upcoming hen do. She is due to go away next weekend for the night with her friends and claims she doesn't know what they have in store, but that she has asked her sister and she says there is nothing like that. I do not trust her sister at all. My fiancee can be quite passive and I suspect strongly they will be organising at least a visit to a strip show. More likely something like naked males waiters or something.
> 
> My initial reaction when anything goes wrong is just to walk away, but I know I can't do that and nothing has even gone wrong yet anyway!
> 
> I'm rambling but I just would like some advice or even support. This is bringing back all the feelings from being cheated on and I'm honestly not coping brilliantly.
> 
> Have any of you been in a similar circumstance?
> 
> edit: I don't seem to be able to reply to posts. I trust that she will not do anything if there are strippers. I'm worrying about it and was wondering if anyone else that has experienced infidelity has experience of this? I feel like I might be over reacting (maybe not though).


I don't know why you would think of marrying a person who would be ok with going to a stripper, let alone licking his butt!!You clearly don't trust her, and not surprising as she has done it before, so what is to stop her doing it again?
Honestly you really don't need a hen party or stag do, especially as most couples live together first anyway. Many people now do more wholesome things such as sports, much safer and many just get married without doing anything like that. Getting drunk and going out with a group of women(who often cant be trusted) is asking for trouble, and going to a stripper and kissing his butt is way over the line for most I would have thought. You already know that to her that sort of behaviour is ok, you have the evidence right there, but to you that isnt ok, so think very carefully before you marry her, its a big red flag when her boundaries are very different from yours. 

I wouldn't be interested in a man who thought it was ok to go and see strippers, that's a no no for me. You need to decide what your own boundaries are in relationship to a woman you are with.


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## skerzoid

You need to read this thread: 

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/copin...er-quickly-after-i-talked-you-last-night.html


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## MattMatt

My wife and I were out having a meal in a pub. There was a hen party and they were just a group of girls having some fun, drinking some alcohol and eating some food.

And there wasn't a stripper in sight.

After they went, another hen party came in, they were a smaller group, but they were also just a group of girls having some fun, drinking some alcohol and eating some food.

Again, no strippers in sight.

So, stop having bloody strippers at hen parties! It's not rocket science!


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## VibrantWings

BioFury said:


> If you fail to establish healthy boundaries, your wife will have no respect for you, and your marriage will likely fail. A hen party like the one you've described simply isn't a good idea, regardless of who your fiance is. Which is possibly why you're uncomfortable with it.
> 
> If you're on a diet, don't go to Krispy Kreme and stare at their donuts. It's common sense.


I'm impressed that someone on here knows what Krispy Kreme is....



Blondilocks said:


> Any woman who licks a stripper's bare behind is not passive.


And doesn't have the same boundaries as some others might have.....:|


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## niceguy47460

You should be worried . Bachelor and bachelorette parties always get out of hand . Think about all of them kind of parties that wives , husband and son to be wives and husbands have cheated on the other at things like that . You put booze in the mix and someone is going to cheat . I would be willing to bet that 80 to 90 percent of people get cheated on at these kind of parties . a lot of people just never find out .


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## sokillme

Maybe you should have fixed your picker first.


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## Andy1001

sokillme said:


> Maybe you should have fixed your picker first.


Egggsackly.


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## sokillme

I guess we are kind of kicking you when you are down, but seriously dude you know this was going to be an issue and you picked someone who already has poor boundaries, why did you do that? Do you think there is something else going on here?

I suggest you set up strong boundaries NOW before you get married. Set the tone NOW.


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## manwithnoname

If I were single again, and it appears more likely every day, I would never get married again. That would at least eliminate the hen or bachelorette party.

She's not as perfect as you think.


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## Openminded

VibrantWings said:


> I'm impressed that someone on here knows what *Krispy* *Kreme* is....
> 
> 
> 
> And doesn't have the same boundaries as some others might have.....:|


O/T Krispy Kreme donuts are American (started in North Carolina in the 1930's) and an addiction, especially for Southerners who grew up with them decades ago. I have zero willpower when they're concerned -- especially for lemon-filled. I didn't know they were out of the U.S.?


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## Andy1001

VibrantWings said:


> I'm impressed that someone on here knows what Krispy Kreme is....
> 
> 
> 
> And doesn't have the same boundaries as some others might have.....:|


Krispy Kreme opened an outlet in Dublin Ireland. It is now the franchises leading performer worldwide. 
Last year it took three hundred thousand euro A WEEK.


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## minimalME

Although an original 'hot now' is hard to resist, my favorites are the chocolate covered kreme filled. :grin2:

But only when they're REALLY filled. Gotta have some weight to them when you pick um up. None of that tiny squirt nonsense where you take the first bite and the cream is all gone. :surprise:



Openminded said:


> O/T Krispy Kreme donuts are American (started in North Carolina in the 1930's) and an addiction, especially for Southerners who grew up with them decades ago. I have zero willpower when they're concerned -- *especially for lemon-filled*. I didn't know they were out of the U.S.?


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## jlg07

Why don't you suggest, instead of a hen party (since she already did that in her previous marriage) that the entire wedding party/friends go out and celebrate at a dinner. I saw this with a young couple in Hawaii last year -- EVERYONE was there at a Luau instead of separate bachelor/bachelorette parties.

Honestly, you THINK your fiancee was "coerced" into licking a strippers butt? AND she still has the pict on her FB? Methinks you really do NOT know your fiancee all that well.


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## [email protected]

I don't know where you are Worried235, but out here in California hen parties have an uncanny way of
getting out of hand, or in hand, if you take my meaning. I just hope someone takes good pics of the party, and then your fiancee can explain it all later. Because, she will need to explain.


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## Worried235

VibrantWings said:


> To the OP, it's a bunch of women. Make them stay home and have your fiancee lick a cream filled donut instead of someone's arse. In all seriousness though, sorry to hijack your thread with donut stories.
> 
> My opinion: If it reallllyyyy bothers you that much, then you need to tell her ahead of time. It's going to fester if you don't.
> Whether the problem is her behavior or your insecurity, it needs to be addressed before you get married.
> 
> Feeling up on a guy on a girls night out before she knew you shouldn't be held against her in your current relationship. We all do stupid things when younger.
> I wouldn't lick some stranger's arse but then again, how much did she have to drink?


That was my initial thought. I'm having to be so careful I don't over react because of my past and just this morning my thoughts have gone from "we'll talk" to "it's all off" to "I need more time!".

We're going to talk about it when she's back. It's more or less too late to cancel the do now as it will cost our friends quite a bit of money(although I guess it would be cheaper than going!). Ultimately, I need to trust her to the extent she will walk away if her friends or sister organise anything inappropriate. 

The truth is, at the moment I don't - *but I don't trust anybody because of my past.
*


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## Worried235

> Feeling up on a guy on a girls night out before she knew you shouldn't be held against her in your current relationship. We all do stupid things when younger.
> I wouldn't lick some stranger's arse but then again, how much did she have to drink?


I'm not holding it against her at all and we are very open about everything. This has just been a big shock for me.

This happened about 8 years ago - it wasn't some 19 year old doing daft stuff at a party.

As concerning to me (if not more) is that she is happy for the picture to still be up, along with all the ambiguous comments underneath it.


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## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> I'm not holding it against her at all and we are very open about everything. This has just been a big shock for me.
> 
> This happened about 8 years ago - it wasn't some 19 year old doing daft stuff at a party.
> 
> As concerning to me (if not more) is that she is happy for the picture to still be up, along with all the ambiguous comments underneath it.


What is this saying about you?
You want to marry a woman who has a picture of herself kissing a strippers ass on her Facebook page for all the world to see. 
Is your self esteem so bad that this is what you believe is the best woman you can get?
And other than the fact she is a woman of, let’s say “ambiguous” morality and seriously lacking in what is considered acceptable behavior in any civilized society, you say she’s perfect. FFS dude!
Get ready for years of misery because you haven’t a ****ing clue what you’re getting into. 
You say her sister can’t be trusted and her friend who’s organized this shindig has an “interesting” attitude to sex. And your friend who was supposed to go was “discouraged” from attending. I wonder why? Would she have spoiled the fun and games maybe.
Have you ever heard the statement “Judge me by the company I keep”? Have a look at the people in your fiancées life, they will soon be part of your life if you don’t open your eyes.


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## manfromlamancha

What picture and what comments ?!?!?!?


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## Andy1001

manfromlamancha said:


> What picture and what comments ?!?!?!?


The bride to be was married before. On her Bachelorette she had a male stripper who’s ass she couldn’t resist kissing and this touching memory was caught on camera. 
She’s so proud of that photo that eight years later it’s still on her Facebook page. 
And her friends have made “ambiguous” comments about what went on that night.


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## manfromlamancha

Andy1001 said:


> The bride to be was married before. On her Bachelorette she had a male stripper who’s ass she couldn’t resist kissing and this touching memory was caught on camera.
> She’s so proud of that photo that eight years later it’s still on her Facebook page.
> And her friends have made “ambiguous” comments about what went on that night.


Ah ok - thanks Andy.


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## Worried235

> What is this saying about you?
> You want to marry a woman who has a picture of herself kissing a strippers ass on her Facebook page for all the world to see.
> Is your self esteem so bad that this is what you believe is the best woman you can get?


I found this a day ago and am just trying to deal with it. She has been kind, loving and supportive to an extent I haven't ever seen. I was a total wreck when we started seeing each other although I didn't realise how much of a wreck at the time. She's stuck by me and never, ever, faltered. This is one thing in her life and I'm just trying to separate what is cause by my anxiety after a traumatic break up and mental breakdown with what I am reasonable in expecting and doing.


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## Cynthia

Worried235 said:


> I found this a day ago and am just trying to deal with it. She has been kind, loving and supportive to an extent I haven't ever seen. I was a total wreck when we started seeing each other although I didn't realise how much of a wreck at the time. She's stuck by me and never, ever, faltered. This is one thing in her life and I'm just trying to separate what is cause by my anxiety after a traumatic break up and mental breakdown with what I am reasonable in expecting and doing.


As sweet as this sounds, there could be a darker side to this story. She found you in a vulnerable state and built you up how she wanted. People in that state of vulnerability are more easily manipulated. I don't know if this is the case or not, that she did what I'm suggesting. The thing that bothers me is the photo that is still on her Facebook page. Why is it still there? It would seem to me that if she isn't embarrassed by it that her boundaries haven't improved, which would be a problem.


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## Worried235

> She found you in a vulnerable state and built you up how she wanted. People in that state of vulnerability are more easily manipulated. I don't know if this is the case or not, that she did what I'm suggesting. The thing that bothers me is the photo that is still on her Facebook page. Why is it still there? It would seem to me that if she isn't embarrassed by it that her boundaries haven't improved, which would be a problem.



I don't understand why it's still there and her reaction to being asked about it means it doesn't bother her at all.

We'll be talking soon, so I'll see what happens.


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## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> What is worse is information I haven't put here which, if you were very cynical, means this could be a possibility.
> 
> I don't understand why it's still there and her reaction to being asked about it means it doesn't bother her at all.
> 
> We'll be talking soon, so I'll see what happens.


Maybe I’m being too harsh on you and if you want me to stop posting just say the word. 
You are giving the impression of a man who’s driving a train that has no brakes and you are approaching a bridge that has collapsed. And you are afraid to jump off because you don’t think you’ll ever get another train to drive. 
Jump my friend because this train wreck hasn’t happened yet but it’s going to. And soon.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Worried235 said:


> What is worse is information I haven't put here which, if you were very cynical, means this could be a possibility.
> 
> I don't understand why it's still there and her reaction to being asked about it means it doesn't bother her at all.
> 
> We'll be talking soon, so I'll see what happens.


People like to party and being single or friends with benefits that’s fine. Heck, if you and your spouse are cool then no problems there either.

You have a problem with it so, if she can’t get around that you shouldn’t get married. Yes, it sucks. Don’t worry, someone will be along to tell you it is a minuscule problem. 

So, what? If it breaks your own comfort level who cares what anyone thinks? it’s sad when you read these threads and people eventually post their historical problems and you are like “ well they showed you who they were before you were married, why didn’t you believe them.”

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but if kissing stripper ass was okay then and now she is nonplussed, what does that say when you are married?


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## uhtred

Compatibility is all important. If you think she is the sort of woman to go wild with strippers and that isn't OK with you ,then I think you need to rethink thingks carefully. Some guys are OK with their girlfriend being wild in that way, others are not.

I suspect its unlikely anything will actually happen, but if you have to tell her not to go it will set up a tension. 

Years ago my wife was very upset that I was going to go to a close friend's bachelor party. I didn't go to avoid upsetting her. The "party" consisted of a few guys getting a bit drunk and otherwise just hanging out. No strippers, in fact no women. The only memorable thing was that I realized my wife didn't trust me on such a trivial issue. Also now those friends know my wife didn't trust me.


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## jlg07

Do you have anyone that YOU trust going to her hen party? Someone who could "watch" for you?
If not, and I hate to say this, could you get a PI to watch? I HATE to say to do that, because if you don't trust her that much (and YOU certainly do know if you can REALLY trust her -- my guess is that you really don't, esp. after seeing that picture), maybe you should have that party surveilled.

What is her reaction to that picture and WHY she kept it there? Did YOU talk to her about it and mention that a)it makes YOU uncomfortable, and b) has revealed some of HER personality traits that go beyond your boundaries? YOU need to make a stand about your boundaries -- I don't care how much pressure you feel to get married at this point.

There is NO reason to be comfortable for her to do this, esp. with people that you know are willing/trying to get things to be wild. She's ALREADY done the hen party once -- I don't see the need for this.

Are YOU doing a bachelor party? How would she be if you went to strippers/lap dances etc.? She'd probably say she is fine because she knows you would never do that. Well?


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## Worried235

I'll be taking to her soon. I'm not having a bachelor party as I don't see the point.

I think she'd tolerate me seeing a stripper although I have no desire to see one at all. I also think women can be worse than men and statistics about bachelor parties back this up.

I already said if she went abroad for the party, she would not return to a fiance and she has moaned about this a bit.

Next step I need to talk to her when she returns from her break (party is next weekend) and I'll update then.


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## CraigBesuden

Worried235 said:


> I'll be taking to her soon. I'm not having a bachelor party as I don't see the point.
> 
> I think she'd tolerate me seeing a stripper although I have no desire to see one at all. I also think women can be worse than men and statistics about bachelor parties back this up.
> 
> I already said if she went abroad for the party, she would not return to a fiance and she has moaned about this a bit.
> 
> Next step I need to talk to her when she returns from her break (party is next weekend) and I'll update then.


I guess the question is: what do you expect her to do if (when) male strippers show up? It’s an awkward situation.

Speaking of situations, Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino got married late last year and the wedding was recently aired on Jersey Shore Family Vacation. One of his roomies, Ronnie, decided to go against his wishes and invite a bunch of strippers who proceeded to grind and twerk on him. Awkward!

If the strippers show up and you want her to leave, she needs to tell them ahead of time. That will stop the tomfoolery. Probably. Then again, maybe the other ladies want the strippers more for themselves than for the bride.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Worried235 said:


> I'll be taking to her soon. I'm not having a bachelor party as I don't see the point.
> 
> I think she'd tolerate me seeing a stripper although I have no desire to see one at all. I also think women can be worse than men and statistics about bachelor parties back this up.
> 
> I already said if she went abroad for the party, she would not return to a fiance and she has moaned about this a bit.
> 
> Next step I need to talk to her when she returns from her break (party is next weekend) and I'll update then.


See, she is giving you all of the signs of wanting both worlds and you are ignoring them. 

She wants married life, but wants to party like a single woman. There are men out there cool with that, but your words show you aren’t the one. You do understand what comes next right? You will be labeled controlling and abusive in a few years.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CraigBesuden said:


> I guess the question is: what do you expect her to do if (when) male strippers show up? It’s an awkward situation.
> 
> Speaking of situations, Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino got married late last year and the wedding was recently aired on Jersey Shore Family Vacation. One of his roomies, Ronnie, decided to go against his wishes and invite a bunch of strippers who proceeded to grind and twerk on him. Awkward!
> 
> If the strippers show up and you want her to leave, she needs to tell them ahead of time. That will stop the tomfoolery. Probably. Then again, maybe the other ladies want the strippers more for themselves than for the bride.


You mean the TV show paid for the strippers and Sorrentino took the credit.lol.


----------



## Diana7

Worried235 said:


> That was my initial thought. I'm having to be so careful I don't over react because of my past and just this morning my thoughts have gone from "we'll talk" to "it's all off" to "I need more time!".
> 
> We're going to talk about it when she's back. It's more or less too late to cancel the do now as it will cost our friends quite a bit of money(although I guess it would be cheaper than going!). Ultimately, I need to trust her to the extent she will walk away if her friends or sister organise anything inappropriate.
> 
> The truth is, at the moment I don't - *but I don't trust anybody because of my past.
> *


I was the same when I met my husband but the reason I was able to learn to trust him was because he has integrity and would never go to anything that was suspect like a stag do. She is happy to go and has shown she is more than happy to enjoy a male stripper, so are you ok with that? I wouldnt be, and if you aren't either then think carefully about whether you want to marry a lady with those values.


----------



## lovelygirl

Diana7 said:


> I was the same when I met my husband but the reason I was able to learn to trust him was because he has integrity and would never go to anything that was suspect like a stag do. She is happy to go and has shown she is more than happy to enjoy a male stripper, so are you ok with that? I wouldnt be, and if you aren't either then think carefully about whether you want to marry a lady with those values.


Exactly!!!

The issues here is that this goes beyond your past, OP. So don't justify her actions by your past. 

She has already shown and exhibited her preferences and you HAVE REASONS to doubt.
It's not that you are doubting without a reason because of your past. In this case, your past is irrelevant because your doubts are related to actual facts, not your past.


----------



## The Middleman

@Worried235
I think you need to have an open and honest conversation with your fiancé, explain your concerns, and ask her to tell her sister and friends to cancel the “adult entertainment” for the hen party. Go in with self confidence, and get her to understand why your concerns are valid, and why you feel the way you do about the male strippers. Common sense would tell me that she would understand and make the change, if she is as good a person as you say. Common decency would be to make sure you are comfortable. If I’m wrong, then you may want to reconsider her as “wife material”, and think again about the wedding. In your country the cost of a marriage mistake is way too high. 

These women are in their 30’s and 40’s, can’t they be content with dinner and a few drinks?


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Well he can hire a pi all he wants. But maybe she doesn’t get into trouble that night? Does he need to hire a pi every time she walks out the door?

It seems they have different ideas on what is and what is not acceptable behavior. 

This is not ok.


----------



## niceguy47460

If it was me I would tell her if she goes everything is off and you won't be there when she gets back . What kind of break is she on . If she is on a break just to be away from you that is not good either and she could be seeing someone else now .


----------



## Worried235

> What kind of break is she on . If she is on a break just to be away from you that is not good either and she could be seeing someone else now .


We have taken a week holiday to be with our respective children as they differ in age and things they like. We already took an amazing 2 week break together and are usually with each other pretty much all the time. The break has nothing to do with the issue other than the difficulty in being apart.


----------



## manwithnoname

Her FB picture still being up, and the upcoming hen party leads me to believe there will be more tongue in cheek, make that tongue on cheek activity.


----------



## rugswept

I keep seeing these situations with "bachelorette parties". Innocent ones are just fine and I see the point. It really is all in fun. 
Then there are the other ones. The ones where suddenly the participants end up with a well endowed stripper and the women go real ****ty fast. 
Usually the stripper goes around, right in their face and offers them his wares and it's quite common for women to sample the goods (PIM). 

You've got one who is a known butt licker and still has it up there. What's that about? A badge of honor?

And this upcoming one is promoted as a "good" party. You already said the organizer is a woman who is trashy and has serious boundary issues. 
Expect once they're liquored up that suddenly there's a big surprise for everyone: a male stripper in the room going around offering his wares. 
This is very likely to happen. 

Over and over I keep seeing these stories and the only thing I can do is SMH.


----------



## personofinterest

I predict that within 2 years you will be back here asking for help to deal with your wife's affair.

I doubt very much her first hubby was "controlling." He probably didn't like her cheating either.


----------



## lovelygirl

personofinterest said:


> I predict that within 2 years you will be back here asking for help to deal with your wife's affair.
> 
> I doubt very much her first hubby was "controlling." He probably didn't like her cheating either.


Yeah. She could be manipulative and play the victim like "oh he was too controlling... he didn't let me do this ..and that... "


Depends on what you consider "controlling". Controlling for what? For not allowing your SO to go to the strip club and lick other men's butts? 

:scratchhead:


----------



## Worried235

He was very controlling. I've dealt with him in connection with their son and, despite me trying to work with him, be fair etc, he really is a 100% grade "A" shouty, angry, *******. He has no problem using his son or dragging him into arguments. Maybe my fiancee changed him, but I've met his type before and he's just a wrong 'un.

I knew my fiancee before we were together (not when she was married though) so already heard about the issues from other people that knew them both.


----------



## TAMAT

Worried,

You wrote that your GF fooled around with OW or suspected she did, I think her sexual orientation needs to be know before you marry her.

If that is the case then she might be making out with women even if there are no males at her hen party. 

I think you need a mutual disclosure of your sexual history.

On the other hand you can always get an annulment.


----------



## Worried235

I think you've either gone way off track in interpreting some of my comments, or mixing this up with another thread.

There is no suggestion at all that she has fooled around with other women.


----------



## Blondilocks

The very fact that you are 'incredibly worried' should tell you that you don't need to be exchanging vows.


----------



## TAMAT

Sorry,

You initially wrote,

"There is a picture of her licking a bare stripper's buttock with some comments which suggest to me there could have been some contact with at least some of the other women."

Was that statement incorrect?


----------



## TAMAT

The thing is, that so many people get married to what they believe to be the perfect girl only to find out later that she is not who they think she is.

They also find out that the perfect act was just that an act and that after the ceremony the real person appears and it's not what they agreed upon.


----------



## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> He was very controlling. I've dealt with him in connection with their son and, despite me trying to work with him, be fair etc, he really is a 100% grade "A" shouty, angry, *******. He has no problem using his son or dragging him into arguments. Maybe my fiancee changed him, but I've met his type before and he's just a wrong 'un.
> 
> I knew my fiancee before we were together (not when she was married though) so already heard about the issues from other people that knew them both.


I would love to know if her ex husband had seen her ass kissing pictures before the wedding. Might explain why he was controlling and concerned about the type of men who she would bring around his son.  @Worried235 can you not understand that a woman who saves in a public domain, pictures of herself in an intimate position with a stripper/male prostitute is the last person you should be getting involved with, especially with your own self esteem issues. 
If you don’t understand this then you really have years of misery ahead of you. Girls nights out, weekends in Vegas, other bachelorette parties and now she won’t even have to arrange her activities around her custody times, she will have a babysitter at home. 
You.


----------



## MrMystified

You need to sit down and have an open and honest discussion with the woman you hope to spend the rest of your life with. If after hearing your feelings she does not immediately remove the photo from Facebook and seriously revise the plans for the party, I don't think you should proceed with the wedding. Good luck!


----------



## niceguy47460

I don't care who you are man or woman anytime there is alcohol and temptation there will be cheating . There will be boundaries crossed . It can be a bachelor or bachelorette party . A girls night out or a boy's night out . A friends party anything involving alcohol is never good . 

People let these happen because they thing oh my spouse wouldn't do that and then they find out that something happened and they are upset and can't believe it . 

People need to wake up and not let things like parties happen at all .


----------



## Marduk

Sometimes in my life I’ve noticed the universe offering me a rip cord, like the little secondary chute you open when the primary one doesn’t work. 

One of these times was when my ex wife got mad at me and threw her engagement ring at me before we got married. I took it from her, and knew we shouldn’t get married. But I lost my strength to her tears and gave it back. 

This is one of those times. Pull the rip cord.


----------



## sunsetmist

You know your fiancee better than any of us. You are worried. It is past time for y'all to have a deep discussion of marriage boundaries and future wishes--glad you plan to do this. Start anew--from now--but with regard to how the past affects the present of you both.

Character is a complex assembly of attributes that determines a person's moral and ethical actions and reactions. A person's character is a set of fundamental beliefs--this includes integrity. A person with integrity has the ability to pull life together with honor, to make it all happen no matter how challenging the circumstances. But, to me, most important is respect--regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others. 

In a relationship both partners must respect the other and honor their beliefs. If there are problems, these must be discussed and agreement or compromise should ensue. Do not let your love make excuses for her poor behavior. No one wants to be a warden for life. Have your talk. Listen in a caring manner and express your beliefs and needs. Be strong and honest. This should lead to a stronger relationship or different decisions with regard to your future. I wish you well!


----------



## leftfield

Worried, 

I will share my experience. Maybe it will make some difference to you or someone else.

When I was dating the woman that would become my wife, she and a friend, who she had know for about 6 years, decided to plan a group activity were several people would be floating down a river. Well I knew this friend of hers had interest in her and had taken her out on several dates before her and I started seeing each other. Although she had told him that she was not interested a relationship with him.

I was working out of town that summer and could not go on the float trip. When I asked who all was going she told me that it was just this other man and her. They had about 72 hours and were going to ask several other people. I thought about this situation for a day and realized that I was completely uncomfortable with it. I also realized that I had no interest in trying to control her behavior, so I did not want to ask her not to go. In the long run trying to control her behavior would only make me into someone I don't want to be. Obviously, the only person I have any control over is myself and I realized that I had to get myself out of this uncomfortable position. So when i spoke to her on the phone that night; I told here that I was uncomfortable with this activity. But I wanted her to do as she wished. So I told her I was breaking up with her and when I got back in town that fall we could see if her and I still wanted to see each other.

At that point she broke down said she could understand my position. That she would not go on the float trip. And would not get off the phone until I agreed that we could stay a couple. Within 10 minutes of hanging up, she called me back to tell me she had cancelled on the float trip. She also made sure that this young man new that they would not be doing anything together.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Worried235 said:


> That was my initial thought. I'm having to be so careful I don't over react because of my past and just this morning my thoughts have gone from "we'll talk" to "it's all off" to "I need more time!".
> 
> We're going to talk about it when she's back. It's more or less too late to cancel the do now as it will cost our friends quite a bit of money(although I guess it would be cheaper than going!). Ultimately, I need to trust her to the extent she will walk away if her friends or sister organise anything inappropriate.
> 
> The truth is, at Wthe moment I don't - *but I don't trust anybody because of my past.
> *


Rememeber this from your OP?




Worried235 said:


> Fiancee's friends and sister have been organising everything in secret and won't discuss anything when I am around.
> 
> There is a picture from her last bachelorette of her licking a stripper's buttock.
> 
> A good friend of mine was due to go the party, but felt she was put off by the organiser and has now had to make other arrangements.
> 
> I don't trust her sister and know she has problems with boundaries. The friend arranging it has an odd attitude to sex - constantly boasts about previous sexual "conquests" on front of her husband etc..


Uhmmmm, how are these thing about your past?
They aren't.

If it was only them not talking about it in front of you, you are her fiance you might give details, I'd say grow up and quit being scared.

Toxic freinds, a good friend who might snitch being pushed out and organizers contain a woman who likes to sexually emasculate her husband in front of other people.

Yes, your previous wounding from cheating make you sensitive, but their actions go way beyond your feelings.


Set your boundary, make sure she understands what happens if it is crossed and quit worrying. She is an adult, as are you, if she doesn undertsand "we" then you should make it about"me."


----------



## Rubix Cubed

leftfield said:


> Worried,
> 
> I will share my experience. Maybe it will make some difference to you or someone else.
> 
> When I was dating the woman that would become my wife, she and a friend, who she had know for about 6 years, decided to plan a group activity were several people would be floating down a river. Well I knew this friend of hers had interest in her and had taken her out on several dates before her and I started seeing each other. Although she had told him that she was not interested in a relationship with him.
> 
> I was working out of town that summer and could not go on the float trip. When I asked who all was going she told me that it was just this other man and her. They had about 72 hours and were going to ask several other people. I thought about this situation for a day and realized that I was completely uncomfortable with it. I also realized that I had no interest in trying to control her behavior, so I did not want to ask her not to go. In the long run trying to control her behavior would only make me into someone I don't want to be. Obviously, the only person I have any control over is myself and I realized that I had to get myself out of this uncomfortable position. So when i spoke to her on the phone that night; I told here that I was uncomfortable with this activity. But I wanted her to do as she wished. So I told her I was breaking up with her and when I got back in town that fall we could see if her and I still wanted to see each other.
> 
> At that point she broke down said she could understand my position. That she would not go on the float trip. And would not get off the phone until I agreed that we could stay a couple. Within 10 minutes of hanging up, she called me back to tell me she had cancelled on the float trip. She also made sure that this young man new that they would not be doing anything together.


 Did this behavior ever return in your future relationship/marriage?

.


----------



## jlg07

@leftfield -- OP, did you read this? THIS is the correct response.
YOu need to tell her, and then SHE needs to make the correct response.
Her saying "well they will lose money", no I promise I would NEVER do anything like that (you know she already has).
You KNOW those are no-go responses.


----------



## leftfield

Rubix Cubed said:


> Did this behavior ever return in your future relationship/marriage?
> 
> .


I guess you are asking if my wife ever had any other questionable behavior regarding men. If so, the answer is no. It's not like she had a history of going out with boys. Heck, I personally know all 4 men she ever kissed, that includes me.


----------



## oldtruck

leftfield said:


> Worried,
> 
> I will share my experience. Maybe it will make some difference to you or someone else.
> 
> When I was dating the woman that would become my wife, she and a friend, who she had know for about 6 years, decided to plan a group activity were several people would be floating down a river. Well I knew this friend of hers had interest in her and had taken her out on several dates before her and I started seeing each other. Although she had told him that she was not interested a relationship with him.
> 
> I was working out of town that summer and could not go on the float trip. When I asked who all was going she told me that it was just this other man and her. They had about 72 hours and were going to ask several other people. I thought about this situation for a day and realized that I was completely uncomfortable with it. I also realized that I had no interest in trying to control her behavior, so I did not want to ask her not to go. In the long run trying to control her behavior would only make me into someone I don't want to be. Obviously, the only person I have any control over is myself and I realized that I had to get myself out of this uncomfortable position. So when i spoke to her on the phone that night; I told here that I was uncomfortable with this activity. But I wanted her to do as she wished. So I told her I was breaking up with her and when I got back in town that fall we could see if her and I still wanted to see each other.
> 
> At that point she broke down said she could understand my position. That she would not go on the float trip. And would not get off the phone until I agreed that we could stay a couple. Within 10 minutes of hanging up, she called me back to tell me she had cancelled on the float trip. She also made sure that this young man new that they would not be doing anything together.


The difference between being a man and a door mat.
The woman that wants to act disrespectful calls the man controlling.
When that man lays down boundaries and consequences.
Is saying you disrespect me and your are history.


----------



## oldtruck

She was married before.
She had her hen party.
She does not need a hen party for she is not a never before married girl.
Photographic evidence shows that she does not know how to behave with male strippers.
She wanting to re-enact another hen party shows she has not grown as a person let
alone learned from her past mistakes.

Is this woman wife material?


----------



## MattMatt

Past behaviour does not always predict future behaviour.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

leftfield said:


> I guess you are asking if my wife ever had any other questionable behavior regarding men. If so, the answer is no. It's not like she had a history of going out with boys. Heck, I personally know all 4 men she ever kissed, that includes me.


 Yep, that's what I was asking, and I'm very happy for you that you can answer the way you did. Lot's of folks can't.
So she thought the whole float trip was going to be innocent?


----------



## leftfield

Rubix Cubed said:


> Yep, that's what I was asking, and I'm very happy for you that you can answer the way you did. Lot's of folks can't.
> So she thought the whole float trip was going to be innocent?


She was young and naive. And from her perspective there was no interest. He had already tried to pursue her and she shot it down. She really just saw it as old friends planning an activity. And they did get other people to go. But my wife was not part of it.


----------



## Marduk

MattMatt said:


> Past behaviour does not always predict future behaviour.




Actually, it’s the most accurate predictor in existence.


----------



## VladDracul

With these picture floating around the internet, I'd hate to be in the grocery store with this chick and the cashier ask her for a recommendation on hiring male strippers.  Regarding discussing "boundaries", would you really want to marry a person that had to be told what the boundaries are? I think old Worried is going to find out he's got a tiger by the tail.


----------



## Wolfman1968

OP:

It doesn't matter that this is the "only" issue you have (or is it, really?).

Think of the Anna Karenina principle by Tolstoy:

"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

In other words, all happy families are happy because they succeed on EVERY level---that's why they are all alike. However, it only takes ONE problem to doom a family to unhappiness. It can be alcoholism in one family, unemployment in another, infidelity in another, irresponsibility in another, etc. But because it only takes ONE problem, and that problem is different for each unhappy family, that is why they are "unhappy in (their) own way."

Your relationship fails the Anna Karenina principle. You have issues of boundaries and trust. I predict you will end up in the unhappy family pile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle


----------



## Blondilocks

Maybe that pic is her trophy. At least she isn't keeping it on a USB stick in her nightstand.>


----------



## Worried235

TAMAT said:


> Sorry,
> 
> You initially wrote,
> 
> "There is a picture of her licking a bare stripper's buttock with some comments which suggest to me there could have been some contact with at least some of the other women."
> 
> Was that statement incorrect?


...suggest that the _stripper_ had some contact with at least some of the other women.


----------



## In Absentia

Don't be insecure. The lady loves you. Don't ruin everything with your anxiety. It was 8 years ago.


----------



## OutofRetirement

What kind of person posts a picture like that, nevermind keep it up for 8 years?

Who sees this? I'm guessing her daughter is not old enough to see mom licking strange man's butt? What about her parents? Brothers?

Why leave it there for your fiance to see it? And your fiance's family and friends?

I think everyone has made some bad judgements, but I don't think many post it as if it was a fun, happy thing. Seemingly proud of it.

It's not about the butt-licking so much as the complete lack of judgment and maybe complete different set of moral values as to what is embarrassing or what is admirable.

Assuming we have an infinite amount of items we can post, why do we post the things we do? To share with those we know probably is one main reason. To present an impression of who we are is maybe another top reason.

I just don't get the reason to post licking a strange man's butt. The only thing I can think of is as revenge to a former spouse, but that would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


----------



## Worried235

We had a talk. I had to end up asking her to remove the picture - which she did, along with some other stuff.

She hasn't really addressed whether she fully understands about why I think it's less than ideal for this to have still been up - except to say she just didn't think about it.

She is desperately worried and offered to cancel the night away, which I said there is no need for. She said she would talk to her friend and make sure that nothing like that is organised and, after some prompting, promised to walk away if it did.

As it stands, I couldn't ask for more. It's what lead to this which is worrying, but I would be foolish to walk away for something that hasn't happened when I have full cooperation from her.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I think whoever said the lady loves you is probably right. However, your concerns were very valid and you did the right thing to act on them.

Sometimes, as women and men get older they need reminders of their younger, risque selves and a picture like that might be just that for your fiancee. It reminds her that she can still be risque and fun. However, it is poor taste to leave it up for the world to see once you are engaged not to mention potential employers and children seeing it. As such, they also need reminders of this which you did very well.

Relax but stay watchful. You were right to be concerned and you handled it like a TAM Champ!


----------



## In Absentia

Worried235 said:


> but I would be foolish to walk away for something that hasn't happened when I have full cooperation from her.


There you go... :wink2:


----------



## VladDracul

Worried235 said:


> She hasn't really addressed whether she fully understands about why I think it's less than ideal for this to have still been up - except to say she just didn't think about it.


 Yep, this girl's just overflowing with empathy. I can tell. :rofl: She's using "womanese" on you my man. She's playing you like a two dollar yard sale guitar.


----------



## Marduk

Worried235 said:


> We had a talk. I had to end up asking her to remove the picture - which she did, along with some other stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> She hasn't really addressed whether she fully understands about why I think it's less than ideal for this to have still been up - except to say she just didn't think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> She is desperately worried and offered to cancel the night away, which I said there is no need for. She said she would talk to her friend and make sure that nothing like that is organised and, after some prompting, promised to walk away if it did.
> 
> 
> 
> As it stands, I couldn't ask for more. It's what lead to this which is worrying, but I would be foolish to walk away for something that hasn't happened when I have full cooperation from her.



I worry for you. 

Because I think it’s possible that what’s going on in her mind is “uh oh, I better act good until we get married,” instead of “uh oh, I better not blow up this marriage, too.”

This all sounds too easy for it to be sudden enlightenment, with the wedding around the corner. 

Trust your gut on this one. But do it with open eyes.


----------



## MyRevelation

Worried235 said:


> We had a talk. I had to end up asking her to remove the picture - which she did, along with some other stuff.
> 
> She hasn't really addressed whether she fully understands about why I think it's less than ideal for this to have still been up - except to say she just didn't think about it.
> 
> She is desperately worried and offered to cancel the night away, which I said there is no need for. She said she would talk to her friend and make sure that nothing like that is organised and, after some prompting, promised to walk away if it did.
> 
> As it stands, I couldn't ask for more. It's what lead to this which is worrying, but I would be foolish to walk away for something that hasn't happened when I have full cooperation from her.


Actually, you could (and should) have asked for more. You should have accepted her offer to cancel or even better yet ... SHE ... should just cancel knowing you are not comfortable, without the manipulative tactic of “asking”.


----------



## Worried235

> Actually, you could (and should) have asked for more. You should have accepted her offer to cancel or even better yet ... SHE ... should just cancel knowing you are not comfortable, without the manipulative tactic of “asking”.


I know what you are saying, but ultimately I should trust her enough to go - she has been away before overnight with friends (maybe one or twice), so it would be wrong of us to say it simply can't be allowed - where does that stop?

There has been no resistance at all from her - I've dealt with a gas-lighting, reluctant, spouse and it is 100% different. I want a healthy relationship and I think sometimes that means one or the other of you doesn't get their way. We have done lots together including some high stress situations and also run a stressful business and very rarely fall out at all. We communicate and usually resolve things.

Quite unlike my past relationship, the danger in this one is that I can pretty much dictate what goes on - both at work and at home. It would be easy for me to steamroller her but that would probably lead to resentment and I'd rather err on the side of caution with that side of things.

When I first came here years ago, pretty much all the advice was to run a mile. I should have taken that advice, but I was naive in the extreme and I've had my eyes well and truly opened since.

What we have/had here was a potential red flag with zero previous history in our relationship. I'll see how it goes. I listen to my instincts much more than I used to and they seem to be right most of the time. I'll see how it goes over the weekend and update if there's anything significant.


----------



## niceguy47460

He will be back saying she cheated at her when party sometime .


----------



## In Absentia

Marduk said:


> Because I think it’s possible that what’s going on in her mind is “uh oh, I better act good until we get married,” instead of “uh oh, I better not blow up this marriage, too.”


Why would she plan to marry him if her intention is to cheat on him? I just don't get all this negativity. The OP is already worried... he is happy in the relationship and he is just being totally anxious for understandable reasons. I think he needs to see a therapist, to be honest.


----------



## Yeswecan

Worried235 said:


> As concerning to me (if not more) is that she is happy for the picture to still be up, along with all the ambiguous comments underneath it.


Disrespectful to you. Your soon to be appears to like to party? I suspect this hen party will be no different than the last. Question is, will she stay or roll out if a stripper shows up?


----------



## Worried235

In Absentia said:


> Why would she plan to marry him if her intention is to cheat on him? I just don't get all this negativity. The OP is already worried... he is happy in the relationship and he is just being totally anxious for understandable reasons. I think he needs to see a therapist, to be honest.



Already seeing one but various things mean it won't be a few weeks until next meeting and was over a month since last. Part of that is because my life is pretty awesome and I've been on holiday for a month  

I get the negativity, but there's plenty of positive comments too. I'm being careful; if I thought I had all the answers, I wouldn't be here, but I know I can walk away any time and will if it comes to it, it just hasn't on this occasion.


----------



## Yeswecan

oldtruck said:


> She was married before.
> She had her hen party.
> She does not need a hen party for she is not a never before married girl.
> Photographic evidence shows that she does not know how to behave with male strippers.
> She wanting to re-enact another hen party shows she has not grown as a person let
> alone learned from her past mistakes.
> 
> Is this woman wife material?


Quoted because it is all correct. The question is a good one.


----------



## In Absentia

Worried235 said:


> Already seeing one but various things mean it won't be a few weeks until next meeting and was over a month since last. Part of that is because my life is pretty awesome and I've been on holiday for a month


Lucky you... I'm divorcing... :laugh:


----------



## Yeswecan

Blondilocks said:


> Maybe that pic is her trophy. At least she isn't keeping it on a USB stick in her nightstand.>


How do we know?


----------



## Marduk

MyRevelation said:


> Actually, you could (and should) have asked for more. You should have accepted her offer to cancel or even better yet ... SHE ... should just cancel knowing you are not comfortable, without the manipulative tactic of “asking”.




It was a Kobyashi Maru - an unwinnable scenario. 

If he told her to cancel it, she could have pulled the “you don’t trust me” / “you’re controlling” / “you’re insecure” card for the rest of their marriage. It would have become her get out of jail free card for life. 

Or her friends would have dripped on her for years about what a loser he is - especially if they’re low integrity people. 

If he said yes to it, then he’s implicitly green lighting whatever happened. If she’s the kind of person he has to worry about, any attempts to set boundaries will last as long as she’s in eyesight, and if she’s not, then these will be unnecessary. Either way you can have similar outcomes as above. 

The only way to win the Kobyashi Maru (Star Trek) is to change the rules, or not to play the game at all (as in Wargames). 

An interesting response instead might have been “I’m not going to tell you what you should do, because I’m not your parent. What do you think you should do?”

Because that would have shifted accountability back where it belonged, and taught him a lot about who she really is.


----------



## Marduk

In Absentia said:


> Why would she plan to marry him if her intention is to cheat on him? I just don't get all this negativity. The OP is already worried... he is happy in the relationship and he is just being totally anxious for understandable reasons. I think he needs to see a therapist, to be honest.



Most people that get married and cheat don’t intend to when they get married. Even if they’ve already been cheating before the wedding. 

Just like most people that get married and then divorce their spouse don’t mean to. 

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions” comes to mind.

She does not appear to be very self-aware, as evidenced by the photo. Nor does she appear to have good boundary control, as evidenced by both the photo and the behaviour with her first marriage. 

She certainly does not appear to have demonstrated high integrity behaviour in her past. Why would anyone think her future would be different?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Prenup.


----------



## notmyrealname4

I'm wondering what kind of funk you can pick up from kissing a stripper's butt cheek.


----------



## oldtruck

MattMatt said:


> Past behaviour does not always predict future behaviour.


The standard saying is: past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior.

Combine that with she still has the kissing the stripper photo on social media.
That shows that she thinks there was nothing wrong with her behavior then
or now.

Combine that with this will be marriage No. 2.

I am of the age where to me it is that first weddings are for doing the big show.
For after all how many first weddings can a girl have. The next ones do not 
need all the bells and whistles. She still has half of her engagement party, 
bridal shower, and wedding gifts from the first wedding.

This girl/woman is still hanging with the same kinds of friends that approve
of wild parties with strippers. I do not see any personal growth or maturity
on her part from what has been posted.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

oldtruck said:


> Combine that with she still has the kissing the stripper photo on social media.
> *That shows that she thinks there was nothing wrong with her behavior then
> or now.*


That's the real clincher right there.If she had outgrown this sort of behavior, she'd have pulled that pic in a heartbeat. She'd delete every known trace of it. She'd be mortified that she had ever put it out there in the first place. 

But she left it up well into her engagement. 

Not a good sign. Not a good sign at all.


----------



## Blondilocks

notmyrealname4 said:


> I'm wondering what kind of funk you can pick up from kissing a stripper's butt cheek.


Can you imagine having to explain to your dentist or doctor where you picked up that nasty oral infection?:grin2:


----------



## VladDracul

Worried, why don't you get your friend who was going to just bite the bullet on your behalf, inconspicuously go to the party, and do a little bird dogging for you. Or hire a PI to monitor things. At least you'd clear up whether or not she's leading you into a blind ally about the party.


----------



## ABHale

MattMatt said:


> Past behaviour does not always predict future behaviour.


 In this case it could, she has pictures of her past behavior still on Facebook for the whole world to see including her kids. She is in no way ashamed of what she did and doesn’t care who sees her doing it.


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> Why would she plan to marry him if her intention is to cheat on him? I just don't get all this negativity. The OP is already worried... he is happy in the relationship and he is just being totally anxious for understandable reasons. I think he needs to see a therapist, to be honest.


She was getting ready to marry her first husband as well and cheated at her bachelorette party. There was a photo posted on Facebook of her licking a strippers butt. With comments suggesting more happened. She only remove this picture when OP asked her to


----------



## BluesPower

Worried235 said:


> I know what you are saying, but ultimately I should trust her enough to go - she has been away before overnight with friends (maybe one or twice), so it would be wrong of us to say it simply can't be allowed - where does that stop?
> 
> There has been no resistance at all from her - I've dealt with a gas-lighting, reluctant, spouse and it is 100% different. I want a healthy relationship and I think sometimes that means one or the other of you doesn't get their way. We have done lots together including some high stress situations and also run a stressful business and very rarely fall out at all. We communicate and usually resolve things.
> 
> Quite unlike my past relationship, the danger in this one is that I can pretty much dictate what goes on - both at work and at home. It would be easy for me to steamroller her but that would probably lead to resentment and I'd rather err on the side of caution with that side of things.
> 
> When I first came here years ago, pretty much all the advice was to run a mile. I should have taken that advice, but I was naive in the extreme and I've had my eyes well and truly opened since.
> 
> What we have/had here was a potential red flag with zero previous history in our relationship. I'll see how it goes. I listen to my instincts much more than I used to and they seem to be right most of the time. I'll see how it goes over the weekend and update if there's anything significant.


My brother, I have no idea how young you are... but please listen... 

Thinking like this post will get you a repeat of your last marriage. 

Things like these types of red flags are not areas of discussion... Sorry ladies. 

Weak men discuss this with their GF's. Other men, say... 

If Suzie, the ****, is in charge of your Batch party, then their is no need to have it. We will not be getting married, and you can move out if you are living in my house. 

And frankly, it is that simple.


----------



## ABHale

I can’t even imagine what you’re going through right now with what happened in your previous relationship.

If you have a friend that can watch over what goes on at her bachelorette party I was suggest you do it for your own peace of mind. You might want to believe your fiancé will not do anything and she probably won’t. 

With what has happened in your past your mind will run amok with what could happen. Having somebody there you can trust, that could just say nothing happened or something happened will totally put your mind at ease and help you get through this situation.

What troubles me is when you said no going abroad for this party She kind of complained about that. To be totally honest, unless you have somebody there you can completely trust, you’ll never know what she gets into.


----------



## niceguy47460

The secret planning is what has me worried for him . They don't want him to know what all they are planning because they are up to something that they know will upset him . 

She took the picture down and told him she would cancel the party because she knew he would end up telling her to go .


----------



## Taxman

I will reiterate, I dislike bachelor and bachelorette parties as they get out of hand, and anyone with a credit card can order ANYTHING by phone. I have dealt with divorces and splits arising out of this kind of entertainment. Mix this with a surfeit of alcohol, and.... Last bachelor party I was at, was for my new son in law. Good BBQ, and HOCKEY TICKETS. No females in sight. I was happy. One before that was a completely different story. My BF's kid was getting married. Nice girl. I had a few reservations about the fiance. So I am at the bachelor party, in my usual seat, at the blackjack table. Taking a few of the honeymoon bucks out of the groom. I venture away from the table and see a lineup. Asked one of the other guys what was up, turned out my BF left the party, and the groom's father had done the same, then suddenly the "entertainment" arrived. Pretty damn obvious this was a pro. Also pretty damn obvious you do not want to lay pipe in anything like that. However the lineup was there and unfortunately I saw the groom exit the "entertainment's" place of business. 

So, it did not surprise me when I was approached by BF's little girl, three months after the nuptials, to find her a lawyer. I asked, off the record, what happened. She contracted syphilis on her wedding night. Came back from the honeymoon with a rash. Her PCP identified it, and was compelled by public health to reveal and report. Of course she had only one sexual contact in the last six months. Him, however...

So, she is back on the dating scene, sadder but wiser. Bachelor/ette, GNO's etc etc etc just get beyond out of control, and the results are devastating.


----------



## bandit.45

sokillme said:


> Maybe you should have fixed your picker first.


This.


----------



## Worried235

Bandit.45 

We meet again!

I came here to ask advice, also to gain insight from those who know how I'm feeling, having had my life ruined by infidelity previously.

If I want my fiancee insulting, there are easier and better ways of achieving it. Thanks for the input however 🙂


----------



## bandit.45

Worried235 said:


> Bandit.45
> 
> We meet again!
> 
> I came here to ask advice, also to gain insight from those who know how I'm feeling, having had my life ruined by infidelity previously.
> 
> If I want my fiancee insulting, there are easier and better ways of achieving it. Thanks for the input however 🙂


If you go back you will see I took out the insulting part, but the intent is still there. 

I once knew a guy who married a stripper. About five months into the marriage she had cheated on him at least three times. He had the audacity to ask me why she did it. 

All I could say was "Dude...you married a stripper." 

If you are intent on marrying a woman who gets drunk and licks strange guys buttcheeks, make sure she is saving a rimjob or two for you. Just saying. Plant your flag and demand it.


----------



## BioFury

Taxman said:


> I will reiterate, I dislike bachelor and bachelorette parties as they get out of hand, and anyone with a credit card can order ANYTHING by phone. I have dealt with divorces and splits arising out of this kind of entertainment. Mix this with a surfeit of alcohol, and.... Last bachelor party I was at, was for my new son in law. Good BBQ, and HOCKEY TICKETS. No females in sight. I was happy. One before that was a completely different story. My BF's kid was getting married. Nice girl. I had a few reservations about the fiance. So I am at the bachelor party, in my usual seat, at the blackjack table. Taking a few of the honeymoon bucks out of the groom. I venture away from the table and see a lineup. Asked one of the other guys what was up, turned out my BF left the party, and the groom's father had done the same, then suddenly the "entertainment" arrived. Pretty damn obvious this was a pro. Also pretty damn obvious you do not want to lay pipe in anything like that. However the lineup was there and unfortunately I saw the groom exit the "entertainment's" place of business.
> 
> So, it did not surprise me when I was approached by BF's little girl, three months after the nuptials, to find her a lawyer. I asked, off the record, what happened. She contracted syphilis on her wedding night. Came back from the honeymoon with a rash. Her PCP identified it, and was compelled by public health to reveal and report. Of course she had only one sexual contact in the last six months. Him, however...
> 
> So, she is back on the dating scene, sadder but wiser. Bachelor/ette, GNO's etc etc etc just get beyond out of control, and the results are devastating.


I agree with your conclusion, but a douchenozzle like the one in your story is a cheater by nature. I'm surprised you didn't save the poor girl some heartache, a subjected her to the STD risk, by not telling her what happened.


----------



## Andy1001

@Worried235 you said in an earlier post that your fiancée wouldn’t be bothered if you went to a strip club.
I think she’s trying to drag you down to her level so she can justify her own behavior. 
Did she actually permanently delete her ass kissing photo or is it just hidden?
I stand by what I told you at the start, if she goes to this party you should dump her.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Blondilocks said:


> Can you imagine having to explain to your dentist or doctor where you picked up that nasty oral infection?:grin2:


Well, Ms. Jones, your lab came back. You've got an advanced case of SPV*.



*SPV= Stripper's Posterior Virus.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Even if . . . . 
Even if she was perfect at the party . . . 
Even if She sent the "entertainment away still clothed . . . 
Even if you had a spy there and you knew for certain that no lines were crossed . . .
Your fiance would still have these friends that she still chooses to keep who will still keep leading her down these paths.
She has chosen her lifestyle. She has chosen it over you. Accept the truth you have been given.
Accept that she doesn't choose you.
Don't try to control her.
Control you!


----------



## bandit.45

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Well, Ms. Jones, your lab came back. You've got an advanced case of SPV*.
> 
> 
> 
> *SPV= Stripper's Posterior Virus.


Also known as "ass clap".


----------



## In Absentia

ABHale said:


> She was getting ready to marry her first husband as well and cheated at her bachelorette party.


Where did you read this?


----------



## VladDracul

In Absentia:



Worried235 said:


> I became increasingly worried about what was being planned and checked back on fiancee's Facebook account from when she was last married (I haven't done it before because thought it wasn't my business). There is a picture from her last bachelorette of her licking a stripper's buttock. The comments underneath could be interpreted to say something more went on. (Comments like "he was up for everything but we were real ladies " and jokes about nuts). This was about 8 years ago as her marriage failed quickly(relationship was already on the rocks when they were married).


The assumption being that giving the stripper's hiney a tongue bath was cheating.

.


----------



## Worried235

I think it is maybe an idea to calm things down a bit here. This is something that was a worry about something that happened 8 years ago. At the time, fiancee's partner saw what was posted and did not consider it cheating. As such, this was about boundaries and making them clear. This has been done. I am confident that the boundaries are understood and will be kept to. We are a happy couple and this woman is simply amazing by any standard. She used to have boundaries that weren't the same as mine. Now she does. I'll update after the weekend out of courtesy to those that have posted helpful replies that have managed not to descend to plain insults.

There are some very damaged people here (I'm one of them) and people handle this differently. 

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else".


----------



## oldtruck

VladDracul said:


> In Absentia:
> 
> 
> 
> The assumption being that giving the stripper's hiney a tongue bath was cheating.
> 
> .


How long does it take an EA to become a PA?

Instantly to years.



When does it take an EA to become a PA?

When it becomes physical.
Holding hands , hugging, a kiss, a woman's tongue on male strippers butt.

How does the BH know it was just one kiss, or just kissing, or just petting, 
or just oral, or just PIV, or and it was just once, or we always used a condom 
to just that one time, or changed to we never used a condom, or to I never
had sex with the OM before you on the same day I had sex with you till
that was also a lie.

The BH does not know. All he knows is that his WW said I never went farther
than "that".


----------



## Worried235

oldtruck said:


> How long does it take an EA to become a PA?
> 
> Instantly to years.
> 
> 
> 
> When does it take an EA to become a PA?
> 
> When it becomes physical.
> Holding hands , hugging, a kiss, a woman's tongue on male strippers butt.
> 
> How does the BH know it was just one kiss, or just kissing, or just petting,
> or just oral, or just PIV, or and it was just once, or we always used a condom
> to just that one time, or changed to we never used a condom, or to I never
> had sex with the OM before you on the same day I had sex with you till
> that was also a lie.
> 
> The BH does not know. All he knows is that his WW said I never went farther
> than "that".


What on Earth are you people talking about?

This is a picture on FB from 8 years ago before I even knew my fiancee existed. What happened then has nothing to do with me as her then fiancee knew about it and that was between them. My issues are not connected with what actually happened.

Please stop projecting your own issues to this thread. Take it elsewhere, because it isn't welcome.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread and you lot can get on with it without my input. Thanks to those that have tried to be empathetic and helpful.


----------



## oldtruck

Worried235 said:


> I think it is maybe an idea to calm things down a bit here. This is something that was a worry about something that happened 8 years ago. At the time, fiancee's partner saw what was posted and did not consider it cheating. As such, this was about boundaries and making them clear. This has been done. I am confident that the boundaries are understood and will be kept to. We are a happy couple and this woman is simply amazing by any standard. She used to have boundaries that weren't the same as mine. Now she does. I'll update after the weekend out of courtesy to those that have posted helpful replies that have managed not to descend to plain insults.
> 
> There are some very damaged people here (I'm one of them) and people handle this differently.
> 
> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else".


We do not know you or your GF.
We do not know why her first marriage ended.
How much of the fault was hers.
Has she grown up and is no longer that person that gives men tongue baths.

We know this.
We have seen countless threads that starter off as yours where the man said
she is not like that. Only for him to find out she is exactly like that.


----------



## In Absentia

VladDracul said:


> The assumption being that giving the stripper's hiney a tongue bath was cheating.


Licking the stripper's ass in public when drunk is cheating?


----------



## MattMatt

VladDracul said:


> In Absentia:
> 
> 
> 
> The assumption being that giving the stripper's hiney a tongue bath was cheating.
> 
> .


Tongue bath or a quick lick on a buttock. Neither are good, but one is clearly not as bad as the other.

I think some of us are playing the game of over extrapolation, or even Making Stuff Up.

Let's not get overexcited and if you want to make fictional constructs based on scant information, I am certain there are websites eager to take fictional contributions.


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR


----------



## In Absentia

Cheers, @MattMatt but I don't really care if people are rude to me... it's their problem.... :wink2:


----------



## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> What on Earth are you people talking about?
> 
> This is a picture on FB from 8 years ago before I even knew my fiancee existed. What happened then has nothing to do with me as her then fiancee knew about it and that was between them. My issues are not connected with what actually happened.
> 
> Please stop projecting your own issues to this thread. Take it elsewhere, because it isn't welcome.
> 
> I'm unsubscribing from this thread and you lot can get on with it without my input. Thanks to those that have tried to be empathetic and helpful.


Good luck dude. 
You’re going to need it.


----------



## VladDracul

Worried235 said:


> What on Earth are you people talking about?
> 
> This is a picture on FB from 8 years ago before I even knew my fiancee existed. What happened then has nothing to do with me as her then fiancee knew about it and that was between them. My issues are not connected with what actually happened.
> 
> Please stop projecting your own issues to this thread. Take it elsewhere, because it isn't welcome.


Worried my man, you were the one that opened the door about her possibly repeating what she did at her first bachlorette party. It was basically the theme of your opening post.




In Absentia said:


> Licking the stripper's ass in public when drunk is cheating?


Its a matter of personal perspective. To some anything short of PIV ain't cheating. To some others mild flirting crosses the line.


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> Cheers, @MattMatt but I don't really care if people are rude to me... it's their problem.... :wink2:


Yes, but it's the fact that TAM has certain standards of behaviour.

We moderators we get to do this all day:


----------



## Blondilocks

The word ignorant is not synonymous with the word stupid.


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> The word ignorant is not synonymous with the word stupid.


I don't know which one is better... but thanks for your compliments, anyway... :laugh:


----------



## BluesPower

Worried235 said:


> I think it is maybe an idea to calm things down a bit here. This is something that was a worry about something that happened 8 years ago. At the time, fiancee's partner saw what was posted and did not consider it cheating. As such, this was about boundaries and making them clear. This has been done. I am confident that the boundaries are understood and will be kept to. We are a happy couple and this woman is simply amazing by any standard. She used to have boundaries that weren't the same as mine. Now she does. I'll update after the weekend out of courtesy to those that have posted helpful replies that have managed not to descend to plain insults.
> 
> There are some very damaged people here (I'm one of them) and people handle this differently.
> 
> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else".


So, here is the deal. You are worried, and everyone tell you that you should be, and the you are playing with fire, and you tell everyone that they are damaged?????

WTF?

Why even post, you got this, I am sure she won't bang some stud one last time, or lick his ass. 

Everything will be fine...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

MattMatt said:


> Yes, but it's the fact that TAM has certain standards of behaviour.
> 
> We moderators we get to do this all day:


Like the Lonesome Dove quote by Tommy Lee Jones

"Can't stand rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it".

Just after the whuppin'.


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> I don't know which one is better... but thanks for your compliments, anyway... :laugh:


You're welcome.:grin2: You got my reference to 'grasshopper'. Loved that series.


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> You're welcome.:grin2: You got my reference to 'grasshopper'. Loved that series.


:smile2: Yes, I did get it... :laugh:


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> Where did you read this?


OP posted that along with the pic of her licking the stripper’s ass there were comments that more went on. Talking about the stripper’s balls, etc. 

This is the only thing OP said about the post. He never clarified what other things were eluded to just that the ass lick wasn’t the only thing that happened.


----------



## ABHale

From OP’s first post in this thread. 

can I trust her because she was, in my eyes, unfaithful at her last hen party
- I have already raised this with her before now, but was not aware of the stripper thing


----------



## In Absentia

ABHale said:


> From OP’s first post in this thread.
> 
> can I trust her because she was, in my eyes, unfaithful at her last hen party
> - I have already raised this with her before now, but was not aware of the stripper thing



ok... so, _in his opinion_ she was...


----------



## Marduk

Best wishes OP. I sincerely hope it all works out for you both.


----------



## bandit.45

I'm confused.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

IME everyone gets to define what cheating means to them. For many couples, touching or kissing a stripper wouldn't be cheating. It's not fair to say she cheated on her ex without knowing what their rules were. 

I have done many inappropriate things in my life. Many of which have photo or video evidence. Some I regret, some I don't. All of it made me who I am today. Kissing a stripper on the bum cheek wouldn't have even made the top 10. 

If these things would be an issue that would keep coming up, I'd prefer they just leave me and we could both find someone more compatible. 

Compatibility includes having the same ideas for boundaries and rules within your relationship.
Me having a colourful past doesn't prevent me from negotiating fair rules and boundaries and sticking to them. 

My current boundaries are simple:
No locked phones (but if it becomes an obsession to check them or trust issues come up, it requires a conversation)
No conversations with the opposite sex that you wouldn't have in front of or show your partner
No behavior with the opposite sex that you wouldn't do in front of your partner
No drunken group outings, No drugs (we don't anyway)

Choosing to marry me would mean that you are choosing to trust me enough to believe I will follow the boundaries that were set in our relationship. 

If they were using something from 8 years before I met them as a reason why they couldn't trust me, it's best we both go our separate ways. It's not fair for either of you to continue.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You come here worried about her last hen party unfaithfulness, talk about lack of trust, you post about the disrespect of the party planner, you talk about the stripper butt kiss, you say your good friend was pushed away from going, you do not like her initial reaction to your fear and we are projecting. 

Naw, dude, you don't pour the gasoline, light the match, start the fire and then get mad because people don't put out your arson fire.


----------



## ABHale

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> IME everyone gets to define what cheating means to them. For many couples, touching or kissing a stripper wouldn't be cheating. It's not fair to say she cheated on her ex without knowing what their rules were.
> 
> I have done many inappropriate things in my life. Many of which have photo or video evidence. Some I regret, some I don't. All of it made me who I am today. Kissing a stripper on the bum cheek wouldn't have even made the top 10.
> 
> If these things would be an issue that would keep coming up, I'd prefer they just leave me and we could both find someone more compatible.
> 
> Compatibility includes having the same ideas for boundaries and rules within your relationship.
> Me having a colourful past doesn't prevent me from negotiating fair rules and boundaries and sticking to them.
> 
> My current boundaries are simple:
> No locked phones (but if it becomes an obsession to check them or trust issues come up, it requires a conversation)
> No conversations with the opposite sex that you wouldn't have in front of or show your partner
> No behavior with the opposite sex that you wouldn't do in front of your partner
> No drunken group outings, No drugs (we don't anyway)
> 
> Choosing to marry me would mean that you are choosing to trust me enough to believe I will follow the boundaries that were set in our relationship.
> 
> If they were using something from 8 years before I met them as a reason why they couldn't trust me, it's best we both go our separate ways. It's not fair for either of you to continue.


You can also say for many couples touching a stripper would be considered cheating. Especially when you start putting your mouth on parts of the body


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ABHale said:


> You can also say for many couples touching a stripper would be considered cheating. Especially when you start putting your mouth on parts of the body


She had the picture up on her facebook page while she was married to her ex. Seems like it wasn't a cheating situation. But regardless, it doesn't change what I said. Unless he knows what their boundaries are, he doesn't know if it was cheating or not. It's not up to TAM to decide what their rules were. 

The rest is the same. If something she did 8 years before she met him is going to cause trust issues, he should leave for both their sakes. It's not fair to either of them.


----------



## ABHale

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She had the picture up on her facebook page while she was married to her ex. Seems like it wasn't a cheating situation. But regardless, it doesn't change what I said. Unless he knows what their boundaries are, he doesn't know if it was cheating or not. It's not up to TAM to decide what their rules were.
> 
> The rest is the same. If something she did 8 years before she met him is going to cause trust issues, he should leave for both their sakes. It's not fair to either of them.


 The moral compass of this thread belongs to OP. It doesn’t matter what we believe to be OK. I can assure you that there are way more couples out there that would not be 0K with touching a stripper then there are those that are OK with it.

But don’t try to make light of the situation that OP fines to be wrong Because his views don’t line up with yours. You making light of it because his reaction to the photo is just as bad as someone coming along and calling a woman that would do that a *****.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> Can you imagine having to explain to your dentist or doctor where you picked up that nasty oral infection?:grin2:


Oh, this is so true...

OM's naughty spouse saw, got her heart stung by viral, virile [butterflies] after her encounter with that stripper's bare butt.



Lilith McGarvey-


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

He can say it’s against HIS boundaries and rules for his relationship with her. 

He, and you, can’t say it’s cheating unless you know what their boundaries and rules are. 

That’s my point. You can’t call her a cheater when you don’t know. 

She didn’t do it while with OP.


----------



## VladDracul

Slowly, I basically agree with your perspective. I've known any number of couples with open marriages, hall passes, and the like. However, there's a real problem that aspects of a past "lifestyle" will intentionally or even unintentionally, creep into a subsequent relationship. Adjusting boundaries and attitudes are often as not a easy as its made out to be.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

VladDracul said:


> Slowly, I basically agree with your perspective. I've known any number of couples with open marriages, hall passes, and the like. However, there's a real problem that aspects of a past "lifestyle" will intentionally or even unintentionally, creep into a subsequent relationship. Adjusting boundaries and attitudes are often as not a easy as its made out to be.


There’s nothing that suggests she was in an open marriage. 

Many, many men get lap dances from strippers on their bachelor party and no one assumes they are in an open marriage. It may also be against boundaries for many couples, which is also totally valid. 

The extremists are alive and well on TAM, I see. Take it down a few notches. Blowing things up into something they aren’t doesn’t help anyone.


----------



## bandit.45

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There’s nothing that suggests she was in an open marriage.
> 
> Many, many men get lap dances from strippers on their bachelor party and no one assumes they are in an open marriage. It may also be against boundaries for many couples, which is also totally valid.
> 
> The extremists are alive and well on TAM, I see. Take it down a few notches. Blowing things up into something they aren’t doesn’t help anyone.


So your woman, back eight years ago, long before you met her got silly at a party and licked a guys ass. 

Okay. I get it. Maybe that was a one-off. 

But it doesn't absolve the need for the two of you to sit down and establish a marital code of Hammurabi. Both of you need to list the things each will not put up with from the other, combine the lists, do some horse-trading and compromising back and forth, and come up with an all-inclusive list of personal boundaries... a behavioral contract of sorts. Put it in print and make a copy for both of you. Build an ark of gold (or aluminum foil) and store the two copies in there, to take out once a year and reexamine and reaffirm the rules of your relationship. 

You can't expect her to live up to your expectations if she has no idea what those expectations are.


----------



## VladDracul

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The extremists are alive and well on TAM, I see. Take it down a few notches. Blowing things up into something they aren’t doesn’t help anyone.


I appreciate your advice and the compliment that I'm an extremist. The mods however, are in control and if they have a problem they let me know to one degree or another. I've spent ample time in the penalty box. Your advise is entertaining to hear but you need to know you're likely confusing me with someone who is going seriously going to consider it. 




bandit.45 said:


> So your woman, back eight years ago, long before you met her got silly at a party and licked a guys ass.


We're dealing with two threads where the guys are dealing with something their chick did nearly a decade ago. Worried may need to spend some time reading Jksc11's thread to get things in perspective.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

The other thread is one where his wife cheated on him 10 years ago. 

This women did something 8 years before she ever met the OP. 

It’s not at all the same.


----------



## niceguy47460

I don't think he is worried because of just the picture but a combination of the picture and the secrets of the party and the fact his friend was put off by the other women that is putting the party together . So much so she decided not to go . And the fact that the other women are not very lady like if you know what I mean . 

I just hope for his sake that nothing happens on this hen party .


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The other thread is one where his wife cheated on him 10 years ago.
> 
> This women did something 8 years before she ever met the OP.
> 
> It’s not at all the same.


The act itself and its timing are indeed different.

But...
1. She did it on the eve of her wedding long after she was in an exclusive relationship with #1

and even if we acknowledge she could have grown beyond such indiscretions..

2. She kept the pics of her sexing another man on her social media, after being engaged to her current fiancee, indicating that the present really is like the past after all.


----------



## VladDracul

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The other thread is one where his wife cheated on him 10 years ago.
> 
> This women did something 8 years before she ever met the OP.
> 
> It’s not at all the same.


Of course its not the same. That's the point. Hence, our man Worried needs see how minor his situation is by comparison; like complaining about breaking a finger in an auto and seeing another driver in a body cast.


----------



## alte Dame

bandit.45 said:


> So your woman, back eight years ago, long before you met her got silly at a party and *licked a guys ass*.


I feel jaded enough that I just shake my head at this, but goddamn, between **** pics and vag shots, the semi-legitimization of prostitutes and happy endings, I'm really disappointed in mankind. We're supposed to be 'progressing,' not regressing into baboons that shake their bare rears at one another. With all of the new technology, this is how the 21st-century new tech society is going to distinguish itself? Baboons are the souls of civilized behavior compared to some of this crap.


----------



## MattMatt

niceguy47460 said:


> I don't think he is worried because of just the picture but a combination of the picture and the secrets of the party and the fact his friend was put off by the other women that is putting the party together . So much so she decided not to go . And the fact that the other women are not very lady like if you know what I mean .
> 
> I just hope for his sake that nothing happens on this hen party .


An ordinary person would probably laugh it off.

However, the OP was cheated on by the love of his life, who gaslighted him mightily.

Therefore he is nervous about future relationships because like the vast majority of us here, he is damaged goods.

Some of us try to get beyond that which damaged us, some of us don't want to, some of us can't.

Some of us project our ex spouse or ex lover onto someone else, and throw the bricks at them we didn't throw at our ex.

Folks, our OP needs support. Don't push him out of the way so you can launch a rock at the head of his fiancee. That's not cool, nor is it helpful.


----------



## In Absentia

alte Dame said:


> I feel jaded enough that I just shake my head at this, but goddamn, between **** pics and vag shots, the semi-legitimization of prostitutes and happy endings, I'm really disappointed in mankind. We're supposed to be 'progressing,' not regressing into baboons that shake their bare rears at one another. With all of the new technology, this is how the 21st-century new tech society is going to distinguish itself? Baboons are the souls of civilized behavior compared to some of this crap.


Unfortunately, social media educate and dis-educate... you get to learn a lot of good things, but you also get learn a lot of crap... people spreading BS, basically. 

In this thread, the girlfriend has taken the pic down and agreed to respect the OP's wishes regarding the party, but people are still going on about how they should have a "marital code", sitting her down and have a serious talk... they have done that. There's nothing more he can ask her.


----------



## ConanHub

I would think her colorful past is funny personally but it would have to be solidly in the past for her to have anything to do with me.

Cherishing pictures with strippers at all is a non starter.

Sounds like that issue was resolved and hopefully they can establish healthy boundaries for the somewhat wild group of friends.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> Cherishing pictures with strippers at all is a non starter.


How do you know she was cherishing it? Did you read it in this thread? She just said she "didn't think about it". She posted it 8 years ago and forgot about it. Do you remember all your posts on FB in the last 10 years? I don't.

People are still trying to destroy their relationship, even when the OP has unsubscribed from this thread. I find it rather sad.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> How do you know she was cherishing it? Did you read it in this thread? She just said she "didn't think about it". She posted it 8 years ago and forgot about it. Do you remember all your posts on FB in the last 10 years? I don't.
> 
> People are still trying to destroy their relationship, even when the OP has unsubscribed from this thread. I find it rather sad.


Try to keep up. I'm not trying to destroy this relationship at all.

Posting pictures of yourself with strippers on FB is something you are definitely proud of and bold about. I have a lot of experience with couples and ran into almost exactly this situation several years ago.

I mentioned scenerios I would have a problem with and the term "cherish" to indicate something you keep.

Keeping pictures of yourself with strippers is not ok with a lot of partners especially being kinky with them.:wink2:

Don't miss the part of my post where I said I thought it would be funny personally and added what I would think about it if I were in OP's shoes. Having a colorful past doesn't bother everyone. Keeping photographic evidence of it bothers a lot more.

I think this couple will be fine if they can establish healthy boundaries with the current situation with wild friends.


----------



## oldtruck

In Absentia said:


> How do you know she was cherishing it? Did you read it in this thread? She just said she "didn't think about it". She posted it 8 years ago and forgot about it. Do you remember all your posts on FB in the last 10 years? I don't.
> 
> People are still trying to destroy their relationship, even when the OP has unsubscribed from this thread. I find it rather sad.


I would never forget that I had such a picture posted on FB. Matter of fact to prevent
retroactive jealousy I would keep my FB on private. And when I started a new 
relationship with a woman. There would be a major FB deleting going on before
she got friended.

What was there to proud of? Look at me tongue washing OM's butt.

8 years, still has the photo up, still wants another hens party, when is it time to grow up?


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> I think this couple will be fine if they can establish healthy boundaries with the current situation with wild friends.



Which they have? They had a chat and she promised to be a good girl... the rest is speculation... not by you in particular... I'm talking in general terms.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> The act itself and its timing are indeed different.
> 
> But...
> 1. She did it on the eve of her wedding long after she was in an exclusive relationship with #1
> 
> and even if we acknowledge she could have grown beyond such indiscretions..
> 
> 2. She kept the pics of her sexing another man on her social media, after being engaged to her current fiancee, indicating that the present really is like the past after all.


Agreed. If she has changed and now thinks that what she did was wrong, then why did she keep that photo up and why is she going on another hen night knowing that something similar may happen again? My concerns would be that not very long ago she thought that behaviour was perfectly fine. That to me be a big red flag for anyone I was engaged to. She may not go along with it because he asks her not to, but that doesn't mean she has changed. 
If she really cared then she would refuse to go.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> Which they have? They had a chat and she promised to be a good girl... the rest is speculation... not by you in particular... I'm talking in general terms.


The boundaries aren't in place yet. She has agreed to get control of her night out but her friends need to be made very aware of what would be inappropriate or damaging for this couple or there will be a continuous, and unnecessary, assault on their relationship.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> The boundaries aren't in place yet. She has agreed to get control of her night out but her friends need to be made very aware of what would be inappropriate or damaging for this couple or there will be a continuous, and unnecessary, assault on their relationship.


If I promised not to take part in anything inappropriate and I still felt pressure from my partner (not to go at all), I would be the one to break up. It's a new relationship and trust works both ways. I wouldn't marry someone so insecure to stop me doing simple stuff like going to a hen party. Where do you draw the line? Next time he will be stopping her seeing her male friends...


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> If I promised not to take part in anything inappropriate and I still felt pressure from my partner (not to go at all), I would be the one to break up. It's a new relationship and trust works both ways. I wouldn't marry someone so insecure to stop me doing simple stuff like going to a hen party. Where do you draw the line? Next time he will be stopping her seeing her male friends...


Again, you are not comprehending what I am saying. You are saying a lot of things that I am not.

Part of healthy boundaries is making sure those in your life are aware of them and respect them.

That is what I am saying. I am not saying what you are saying.

This is not a new relationship. It is a new marriage. They should have probably gotten the boundaries established way before agreeing to marry each other but it looks like they are on the right track.


----------



## MattMatt

oldtruck said:


> I would never forget that I had such a picture posted on FB. Matter of fact to prevent
> retroactive jealousy I would keep my FB on private. And when I started a new
> relationship with a woman. There would be a major FB deleting going on before
> she got friended.
> 
> What was there to proud of? Look at me tongue washing OM's butt.
> 
> 8 years, still has the photo up, still wants another hens party, when is it time to grow up?


You wouldn't forget that. I probably wouldn't, either. But then this is NOT about you or I, is it? 

And she was not tongue washing his butt.

That was in your dirty mind. It is an extrapolation too far.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> Again, you are not comprehending what I am saying. You are saying a lot of things that I am not.
> 
> Part of healthy boundaries is making sure those in your life are aware of them and respect them.
> 
> That is what I am saying. I am not saying what you are saying.
> 
> This is not a new relationship. It is a new marriage. They should have probably gotten the boundaries established way before agreeing to marry each other but it looks like they are on the right track.


I have comprehended... :smile2: And I wasn't putting words in your mouth... I was expanding... but I need to ask you: don't you think that boundaries form within the relationship with time and experience? Surely, you don't sit down before your marriage detailing them on a piece of paper, so to speak?


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> I have comprehended... :smile2: And I wasn't putting words in your mouth... I was expanding... but I need to ask you: don't you think that boundaries form within the relationship with time and experience? Surely, you don't sit down before your marriage detailing them on a piece of paper, so to speak?


It is absolutely essential, to understand and have in place, mutually agreed upon boundaries to even have a successful relationship at all, not to mention marriage.

Issues that come up during dating initially can be dealt with as they happen but for the relationship to develop further, the couple needs to have some discussion about what they expect and need to be successful together, or they can recklessly hit pitfalls along the way that were possible game enders. A lot of people could save a lot of time and heartache by getting their expectations and limitations out there before going to far into a relationship.

Mrs. C and I had a serious talk after our first date because the earth moved for both of us the previous night and we wanted a lot more.:wink2:


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> It is absolutely essential, to understand and have in place, mutually agreed upon boundaries to even have a successful relationship at all, not to mention marriage.



Ok, we lived together for 5 years before we got married and I guess you develop boundaries that way and also by talking about stuff. But we never sat down and had a "direct" conversation about boundaries. I just find the idea a bit bizarre...


----------



## BluesPower

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The other thread is one where his wife cheated on him 10 years ago.
> 
> This women did something 8 years before she ever met the OP.
> 
> It’s not at all the same.


The issue is not that she did that, which to some may be worrisome. 

The issue is that she is being secretive. The issue is that the Girl in charge of the party is perceived as loose and wild. The issue is that a good female friend of his, was so weirded out by the entire vibe of the party and the chick conducting it, that she is not going. 

NONE of that is about her licking a stripper's ass 8 years ago...


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> Ok, we lived together for 5 years before we got married and I guess you develop boundaries that way and also by talking about stuff. But we never sat down and had a "direct" conversation about boundaries. I just find the idea a bit bizarre...


It leads to success.:smile2:


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> It leads to success.:smile2:


I'm glad for you... :smile2: my marriage, for example, didn't fail because of lack of boundaries... on the contrary, it was setting up those boundaries that made it fail... and ok, she was a bit bonkers too... :laugh:


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> If I promised not to take part in anything inappropriate and I still felt pressure from my partner (not to go at all), I would be the one to break up. It's a new relationship and trust works both ways. I wouldn't marry someone so insecure to stop me doing simple stuff like going to a hen party. Where do you draw the line? Next time he will be stopping her seeing her male friends...


Its not a question of pressuring or forcing anything , but merely finding out that the person you are intending to spend the rest of you life with is on the same page about important things in life. So for example, if a man I was with thought it was ok to go and see strippers, and had done just a few year ago, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. It would be pointless for me to try and force him not to do it, the mere fact that he wanted to do it and had done it would show me that we are not compatible.


----------



## MrMystified

In Absentia said:


> If I promised not to take part in anything inappropriate and I still felt pressure from my partner (not to go at all), I would be the one to break up. It's a new relationship and trust works both ways. I wouldn't marry someone so insecure to stop me doing simple stuff like going to a hen party. Where do you draw the line? Next time he will be stopping her seeing her male friends...


Married people do not see opposite sex friends one-on-one. They see them in group settings or when with their spouses.


----------



## ABHale

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He can say it’s against HIS boundaries and rules for his relationship with her.
> 
> He, and you, can’t say it’s cheating unless you know what their boundaries and rules are.
> 
> That’s my point. You can’t call her a cheater when you don’t know.
> 
> She didn’t do it while with OP.


 I honestly don’t know where you’re coming from.

It doesn’t matter what she’s done in the past except for one thing, this is who she is. She never had a problem with leaving the photo up on her Facebook page for the past eight years. Her husband didn’t have a problem with it back then OK no problem.

The problem lies with OP’s values being way different than hers. OP is worried about her doing it at her hen party this weekend. This is what this thread is about. Op stated that if she done this with him he would consider it cheating and was worried about it happening again.

So maybe her ex-husband was OK with her doing whatever with other men. OP is not gonna be.


----------



## oldtruck

In Absentia said:


> If I promised not to take part in anything inappropriate and I still felt pressure from my partner (not to go at all), I would be the one to break up. It's a new relationship and trust works both ways. I wouldn't marry someone so insecure to stop me doing simple stuff like going to a hen party. Where do you draw the line? Next time he will be stopping her seeing her male friends...


No different with a woman not wanting her man to go to a topless bar.


----------



## In Absentia

MrMystified said:


> Married people do not see opposite sex friends one-on-one. They see them in group settings or when with their spouses.


Really? We do... we always did. If you trust your partner, it's not a problem. Seems to me that these boundaries are set by very insecure people.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Its not a question of pressuring or forcing anything , but merely finding out that the person you are intending to spend the rest of you life with is on the same page about important things in life. So for example, if a man I was with thought it was ok to go and see strippers, and had done just a few year ago, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. It would be pointless for me to try and force him not to do it, the mere fact that he wanted to do it and had done it would show me that we are not compatible.


yes, I get that... I just find it strange when people set boundaries from the word "go" in a marriage. Surely, if you live together a bit before getting married, you get to know your partner well enough not to have to set "artificial" boundaries?


----------



## In Absentia

oldtruck said:


> No different with a woman not wanting her man to go to a topless bar.


yes, but I was talking about hen parties and stag parties... not with strippers and topless women. Of course that would not be ok. The OP asked her partner not to go if it involved strippers, and she agreed. There are no strippers planned, anyway. What's the problem? The problem is a very paranoid husband to be...


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> yes, but I was talking about hen parties and stag parties... not with strippers and topless women. Of course that would not be ok. The OP asked her partner not to go if it involved strippers, and she agreed. There are no strippers planned, anyway. What's the problem? The problem is a very paranoid husband to be...


Because his ex wife really did a number on him. Destroyed his faith and trust not only in women but in people in general.

Wrecked the lives of his children, too.

So his paranoia is based on that.

Hopefully his new wife will be able to help him learn how to trust again.


----------



## MattMatt

MrMystified said:


> Married people do not see opposite sex friends one-on-one. They see them in group settings or when with their spouses.


What has become known as the Mike Pence rule, though I have heard other fundamentalist Christians and Muslims espouse this rule?

I have sympathy with this idea, but not entirely sure that I buy into it 100%. 

And I am not trying to turn this into a religious debate.


----------



## In Absentia

MattMatt said:


> So his paranoia is based on that.



I know that... my problem is that the OP was looking for reassurance here, and what it got was far from it. People go to hen parties all the time (pretty normal here in the UK), normal hen parties. No strippers are planned in this case and she said she wouldn't go otherwise. She is respecting his boundaries. I don't think there is really a lot more to add to this... apart from unhelpful speculation...


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> yes, I get that... I just find it strange when people set boundaries from the word "go" in a marriage. Surely, if you live together a bit before getting married, you get to know your partner well enough not to have to set "artificial" boundaries?


I knew what I would and wouldn't tolerate from a partner long before I even met my husband.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Really? We do... we always did. If you trust your partner, it's not a problem. Seems to me that these boundaries are set by very insecure people.


Its not about trust for many. My husband is the most laid back easy going person ever and hasn't a jealous bone in his body. The reason that I wouldn't ever go out with another man alone is because as a married lady I think its very inappropriate.
Its also not sensible. Loving your marriage enough to protect it is pure common sense.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> I know that... my problem is that the OP was looking for reassurance here, and what it got was far from it. People go to hen parties all the time (pretty normal here in the UK), normal hen parties. No strippers are planned in this case and she said she wouldn't go otherwise. She is respecting his boundaries. I don't think there is really a lot more to add to this... apart from unhelpful speculation...


She has no idea what is planned and one lady has already decided not to go due to her concerns.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Its not about trust for many. My husband is the most laid back easy going person ever and hasn't a jealous bone in his body. The reason that I wouldn't ever go out with another man alone is because as a married lady I think its very inappropriate.
> Its also not sensible. Loving your marriage enough to protect it is pure common sense.


yes, but I'm not talking about new acquaintances, I agree with you here. I'm talking about old friends... people you've known for a long time and your wife/husband knows them too... would you be against that?


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> She has no idea what is planned and one lady has already decided not to go due to her concerns.


But she said she would leave if it involves strippers or anything too risque? I seem to remember that... here it is...



_"She is desperately worried and offered to cancel the night away, which I said there is no need for. She said she would talk to her friend and make sure that nothing like that is organised and, after some prompting, promised to walk away if it did."_


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> yes, but I'm not talking about new acquaintances, I agree with you here. I'm talking about old friends... people you've known for a long time and your wife/husband knows them too... would you be against that?


If you both know them then why not both go?


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> If you both know them then why not both go?


Sometimes, it's not possible... we might have different commitments and there is one only chance to meet the person in question... why miss the chance because my wife can't be there? Do you know how many times my wife has met her male friends from uni? Several... I don't have a problem with that. I know them and I trust them. Not that it matters now anymore... :grin2: 

And you haven't answered my question... :wink2:


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Sometimes, it's not possible... we might have different commitments and there is one only chance to meet the person in question... why miss the chance because my wife can't be there? Do you know how many times my wife has met her male friends from uni? Several... I don't have a problem with that. I know them and I trust them. Not that it matters now anymore... :grin2:
> 
> And you haven't answered my question... :wink2:


Nether of us has old friends from many years ago we are in touch with. He was in Oz till he was 30, I have moved to 4 different counties in the UK. If I had an old male friend I wanted to see, my husband would be included.


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Nether of us has old friends from many years ago we are in touch with. He was in Oz till he was 30, I have moved to 4 different counties in the UK. If I had an old male friend I wanted to see, my husband would be included.


okey dokey... :smile2:


----------



## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> Nether of us has old friends from many years ago we are in touch with. He was in Oz till he was 30, I have moved to 4 different counties in the UK. If I had an old male friend I wanted to see, my husband would be included.


So, it's possible you and your husband might be unique in that sense, without old friends of any sex from way back when?


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator note:*

It seems clear from some comments in this thread that there are some members who have a prurient interest in the idea of a woman licking the bottom of a stripper. 

They have confused a simple quick lick with something far more distasteful and, if performed in public, almost certainly illegal and likely to get a venue's licence pulled ASAP.

Prurient means: _"Having or encouraging an excessive interest in sexual matters, especially the sexual activity of others."_

So, no more prurient postings, please.


----------



## Diana7

MattMatt said:


> So, it's possible you and your husband might be unique in that sense, without old friends of any sex from way back when?


Yes sorry, didn't make myself clear. I have some friendsof the same sex I still keep in touch with, but mainly by email as we are so far away now. I am still in occasional contact with my best friend from school, we left school 45 years ago:surprise: I have good friends (women)who I got to know very well where I lived for 30 years until we moved away 5 years ago. Still in regular contact but rarely see them. We are about 3 1/2 hours drive away now:frown2:


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> What has become known as the Mike Pence rule, though I have heard other fundamentalist Christians and Muslims espouse this rule?
> 
> I have sympathy with this idea, but not entirely sure that I buy into it 100%.
> 
> And I am not trying to turn this into a religious debate.


Mike Pence is also a seasoned politician. 

He very well knows that his political enemies are not above employing a woman to entrap him in some compromising way.

I suspect that this (may) have happened in the past? Politics in the U.S. have become so ugly.


----------



## Diana7

SunCMars said:


> Mike Pence is also a seasoned politician.
> 
> He very well knows that his political enemies are not above employing a woman to entrap him in some compromising way.
> 
> I suspect that this (may) have happened in the past? Politics in the U.S. have become so ugly.


Billy Graham did the same, its common sense.


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> Billy Graham did the same, its common sense.



And, those sensuous men that know their own desires may do this to self-protect themselves against temptation.


----------



## oldtruck

Fences make good neighbors.

As a man if I was on a business trip, if Anne Ramsey tried to pick me up I would have
no problem being faithful.

If Scarlett Johansson or Blanca Suarez from Los Cables Girls tried to seduce me I would
like to think that I can turn them down.

If men and women all lived by the Mike Pence Rule the amount of affairs would be far less.
Countless times where the WW did not intend to have an affair. Though did not follow the
Mike Pence Rule and wound up being a WW. Which allowed the OM to work them into bed.


----------



## Diana7

SunCMars said:


> And, those sensuous men that know their own desires may do this to self-protect themselves against temptation.


Yes, anyone who understands human nature and weakness is wise to avoid temptation.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Was the party last night? Or is it still upcoming?
I'm a strong believer in the pence/ graham rule.
What exactly was pence seasoned with?


----------



## manwithnoname

Mr. Nail said:


> Was the party last night? Or is it still upcoming?
> I'm a strong believer in the pence/ graham rule.
> What exactly was pence seasoned with?


Dried thyme, dried basil, dried rosemary, and dried parsley.


----------



## Personal

ConanHub said:


> It is absolutely essential, to understand and have in place, mutually agreed upon boundaries to even have a successful relationship at all, not to mention marriage.


Uh-oh!

My wife and I have never done that, yet we have a great marriage.

Since we're doing it wrong I think the only thing that has saved us, is that we both like the song Big On Love by the Models.


----------



## Personal

MrMystified said:


> Married people do not see opposite sex friends one-on-one. They see them in group settings or when with their spouses.


Damn I've got that wrong as well.

Twenty plus years happily married without ever cheating on my wife. Yet I still sometimes catch up with some of my female friends, one-on-one and that includes one of my former sexual partners as well.


----------



## The Middleman

Personal said:


> Damn I've got that wrong as well.
> 
> Twenty plus years happily married without ever cheating on my wife. Yet I still sometimes catch up with some of my female friends, one-on-one and that includes one of my former sexual partners as well.


No OSFs in our marriage, especially ex lovers. That’s a non-negotiable boundary. My wife tried that several years ago. Caused quite a bit of consternation for us both.


----------



## Personal

The Middleman said:


> No OSFs in our marriage, especially ex lovers.


Whatever works for you both, is what works for you.

I'm 23+ years with my now wife (20+ years married), she's fine with it. Even sometimes reminding me to catch up with them. Of which she knows who I have been with and haven't.

Plus I've even crashed as a guest, with one my ex partners, when catching up while I was away for work. All of which my wife was aware of, and I didn't cheat on her either.

Infidelity is a choice. If one chooses not to do that, then they won't do that. On the other hand if they do choose to do that, declaring boundaries won't stop them from doing it.


----------



## Worried235

So she's been on the night out. Not back from it yet.

She sent pictures and messages all yesterday to show she was thinking of me. I went out for a few drinks with my brother and a couple of friends.

I'm left with a few feelings:

- I will never understand why she left that picture and comments up. I think, as it wasn't an issue at the time, she just plain forgot about it.

- I can't still can't understand why a 40yr+ woman needs to go away with over a dozen friends to another city. It just doesn't make sense to me.

- I feel like she had her night out and, from that perspective, it's done now.

- I'm 99% sure nothing untoward happened at all. Just like bleach doesn't kill all known germs, you can never be totally sure.

I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that. 

I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.

I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.

I think I have to shrug and move on, the only choices I have from here are to continue with the wedding or not. To not get married when nothing actually happened would be foolish and cruel, but this hasn't been a good episode and I hope if others read this that may have these choices in their future, they will draw something from it all.

Thanks all again to those that didn't get pervy about butt licking and gave genuine support. It really helps/helped.


----------



## Andy1001

Worried235 said:


> So she's been on the night out. Not back from it yet.
> 
> She sent pictures and messages all yesterday to show she was thinking of me. I went out for a few drinks with my brother and a couple of friends.
> 
> I'm left with a few feelings:
> 
> - I will never understand why she left that picture and comments up. I think, as it wasn't an issue at the time, she just plain forgot about it.
> 
> - I can't still can't understand why a 40yr+ woman needs to go away with over a dozen friends to another city. It just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> - I feel like she had her night out and, from that perspective, it's done now.
> 
> - I'm 99% sure nothing untoward happened at all. Just like bleach doesn't kill all known germs, you can never be totally sure.
> 
> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.
> 
> I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.
> 
> I think I have to shrug and move on, the only choices I have from here are to continue with the wedding or not. To not get married when nothing actually happened would be foolish and cruel, but this hasn't been a good episode and I hope if others read this that may have these choices in their future, they will draw something from it all.
> 
> Thanks all again to those that didn't get pervy about butt licking and gave genuine support. It really helps/helped.


It’s very simple. 
Your fiancée knows that this party has caused you weeks of worry and sleepless nights. 
She knows you were treated terribly by your ex and this party was triggering you. 
She knows it has caused you to develop feelings of mistrust about her. 
She knows you are reconsidering the wedding and the entire relationship. 
She still went. I repeat, she still went. 
And that’s about as big of a ”****you” as I can imagine. 
You are sounding like a man facing the gallows, not a man looking forward to spending the rest of his life with the woman he loves and knows loves him. 
We don’t hurt the people we love at least not intentionally. She has shown you what being married to her is going to be like. She will do whatever she wants and go wherever she wants and you get to shut up and accept it. 
Or not......


----------



## The Middleman

@Worried235
As I read your last update, I couldn’t help but think that you sound miserable. So before you say “I do”, you need to have a heart to heart with your fiancé, and let her know how you feel about GNOs and going away with friends after marriage. If you feel that she has toxic friends, let her know how you feel about them. Make sure she knows what your boundaries and deal breakers are before you get married, otherwise you are going to be miserable in your marriage to her. Once you both agree to the boundaries, you need to be able to stick to them or suffer consequences. Boundaries with out consequences are meaningless.

Both of you need to go into this with both eyes open on how you feel about these things, because after you say “I Do”, it’s too late.


----------



## manwithnoname

Worried235 said:


> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.
> 
> I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.


She was worried about you going away for a week, so you didn't. You were worried about the hen party, and she went anyway? 

I would suggest postponing any wedding until you feel 100% comfortable again. Don't assume you will over time, it may never happen, because she has shown you who she is and may not change.


----------



## The Middleman

Personal said:


> Whatever works for you both, is what works for you.
> 
> I'm 23+ years with my now wife (20+ years married), she's fine with it. Even sometimes reminding me to catch up with them. Of which she knows who I have been with and haven't.
> 
> Plus I've even crashed as a guest, with one my ex partners, when catching up while I was away for work. All of which my wife was aware of, and I didn't cheat on her either.
> 
> Infidelity is a choice. If one chooses not to do that, then they won't do that. On the other hand if they do choose to do that, declaring boundaries won't stop them from doing it.


Happy that you both agree that going anywhere, anytime, with anyone, for anything is wonderful and the marriage remained rock solid. I’m proud of you both. But that doesn’t work for everyone, and certainly not for me. As previously mentioned, several years ago my wife was in email contact with an Ex and he wanted to get together for a catch-up meeting. Let’s just say ... it didn’t happen. 

End of thread jack. If you want to engage me further on this, start another thread or PM me.


----------



## Diana7

Personal said:


> Whatever works for you both, is what works for you.
> 
> I'm 23+ years with my now wife (20+ years married), she's fine with it. Even sometimes reminding me to catch up with them. Of which she knows who I have been with and haven't.
> 
> Plus I've even crashed as a guest, with one my ex partners, when catching up while I was away for work. All of which my wife was aware of, and I didn't cheat on her either.
> 
> Infidelity is a choice. If one chooses not to do that, then they won't do that. On the other hand if they do choose to do that, declaring boundaries won't stop them from doing it.


Many affairs have started with 2 people getting too close. Many don't set out to cheat. 
Having sensible boundaries is just common sense. 
,


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> Many affairs have started with 2 people getting too close. Many don't set out to cheat.
> Having sensible boundaries is just common sense.
> ,


Some of us are able to control ourselves and own our choices. f I cheat on my wife it will because I have chosen to cheat on her, it won't happen by accident.


----------



## Diana7

What has she said they did? I am guessing they didn't stay in the hotel rooms and chat all night. Clubbing? Bars?

I cant understand how she cant see that she is being so hypocritical. She didn't want you going away alone and so you didn't, yet she thought nothing of going away with a group of women on a hen do which is far more likely to lead to trouble. 

What happens when she wants to go away with a group of women again for a few days? What happens if you want to go away again? Is it one rule for you and one for her? These are all things that must be sorted out before you marry, and its not just because of your previous experience of cheating, these are things that are important to sort out. Presumably you have reminded her of the time you wanted a break and she didn't want you to go so you didn't? Have you said that is double standards? That despite your concerns and fears she went anyway?

I would suggest that you say that now she has had her time away, you are going to have yours and book a few days away yourself. Hmmm, I wonder what her reaction will be.


----------



## Diana7

Personal said:


> Some of us are able to control ourselves and own our choices. f I cheat on my wife it will because I have chosen to cheat on her, it won't happen by accident.





As I said many affairs happen because people spend time alone together and get too close,it happens all the time. Few set out to cheat and after all, we are all fallible human beings. If we recognise that, its clear why people have sensible boundaries in their marriage.
I have never cheated in the 25 years of my first marriage nor in the 14 years of this one, and have no desire to ever do so, but I still think its more that sensible to recognise what can happen and protect our marriage.


----------



## Worried235

Diana7 said:


> What has she said they did? I am guessing they didn't stay in the hotel rooms and chat all night. Clubbing? Bars?
> 
> I cant understand how she cant see that she is being so hypocritical. She didn't want you going away alone and so you didn't, yet she thought nothing of going away with a group of women on a hen do which is far more likely to lead to trouble.
> 
> What happens when she wants to go away with a group of women again for a few days? What happens if you want to go away again? Is it one rule for you and one for her? These are all things that must be sorted out before you marry, and its not just because of your previous experience of cheating, these are things that are important to sort out. Presumably you have reminded her of the time you wanted a break and she didn't want you to go so you didn't? Have you said that is double standards? That despite your concerns and fears she went anyway?
> 
> I would suggest that you say that now she has had her time away, you are going to have yours and book a few days away yourself. Hmmm, I wonder what her reaction will be.


She sent me the itinerary. It was some tourist things then a few pubs. At the end of the day, if they were going to organise a stripper orgy then it would be easy to hide it but I have no reason to think anything like that happened.

I quite forgot about the going away thing until talking to my brother this morning. We went away as a couple instead later in the year. She didn't put any pressure on me at all to not go - I decided that and she would have stood by me had I gone.

Ultimately, I should have raised all this weeks before, although my worry went off the charts after finding the Facebook post so I don't suppose I could have.

As a couple, we were in the position that there were 5 days to go until her going away for the night and 12 other women - some of whom don't earn much - had paid out money for accommodation and train tickets already. She offered to cancel it, although we both knew that that would have been a big deal for everyone involved. She could have feigned illness or something else I guess, but neither of us think lying to friends is something to do.

The reason I asked for advice was because it wasn't necessarily a case of hypocrisy and there were certainly shades of grey in all of it. I will talk to her about it again just to put it to bed really, but I don't think she really "gets" it. She hasn't been the victim of cheating, however, so she quite possibly just doesn't understand how strong the feelings can be.

Delaying the wedding isn't something that happens in isolation. It would cause immense upset and more hurt. More hurt than I can really imagine. This episode hasn't changed my fundamental perception of her. We have both carried on communicating throughout and at no point have we reached an impasse.


----------



## ConanHub

Personal said:


> Uh-oh!
> 
> My wife and I have never done that, yet we have a great marriage.
> 
> Since we're doing it wrong I think the only thing that has saved us, is that we both like the song Big On Love by the Models.


Actually, I have read that you both do have mutually agreed upon boundaries.

You don't have to have a sit down to have them. One boundary you have in place is fidelity for sure.


Big On Love is a huge bonus BTW!:grin2:


----------



## In Absentia

Andy1001 said:


> She has shown you what being married to her is going to be like.



yes, that she doesn't have to give up doing something she is going to enjoy because of his insecurity...


----------



## Diana7

Worried235 said:


> She sent me the itinerary. It was some tourist things then a few pubs. At the end of the day, if they were going to organise a stripper orgy then it would be easy to hide it but I have no reason to think anything like that happened.
> 
> I quite forgot about the going away thing until talking to my brother this morning. We went away as a couple instead later in the year. She didn't put any pressure on me at all to not go - I decided that and she would have stood by me had I gone.
> 
> Ultimately, I should have raised all this weeks before, although my worry went off the charts after finding the Facebook post so I don't suppose I could have.
> 
> As a couple, we were in the position that there were 5 days to go until her going away for the night and 12 other women - some of whom don't earn much - had paid out money for accommodation and train tickets already. She offered to cancel it, although we both knew that that would have been a big deal for everyone involved. She could have feigned illness or something else I guess, but neither of us think lying to friends is something to do.
> 
> The reason I asked for advice was because it wasn't necessarily a case of hypocrisy and there were certainly shades of grey in all of it. I will talk to her about it again just to put it to bed really, but I don't think she really "gets" it. She hasn't been the victim of cheating, however, so she quite possibly just doesn't understand how strong the feelings can be.
> 
> Delaying the wedding isn't something that happens in isolation. It would cause immense upset and more hurt. More hurt than I can really imagine. This episode hasn't changed my fundamental perception of her. We have both carried on communicating throughout and at no point have we reached an impasse.


Umm yes she did out pressure on you. You said 'Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.' So yep, she put pressure on you by letting you know she wasn't happy about it. 

I honestly think that people who haven't been cheated on can totally understand why they shouldn't do something that hurts the other, especially when they have shown that they can act very badly at such events. 

Why didn't you know about it till 5 days before? Why such short notice? Surely these things are planned way in advance? 

There is red flag here, its your decision if you ignore it.


----------



## Worried235

> Why didn't you know about it till 5 days before? Why such short notice? Surely these things are planned way in advance?


I knew about the night out for months. I found the FB post just a week before and then couldn't talk face to face until a few days ago.


----------



## niceguy47460

If I was you I would be looking at the pictures she sent and look for any guy hanging right around her . And if any of the other women was in them look at there demeanor. 

The list of things that was going to happen could have been altered BTW .


----------



## rugswept

The bachelorette party is over and done with. Apparently it was just a bunch of women socializing with no inappropriate behavior. Unless you find out things that were inappropriate, it's time to move on from this unfortunate episode. I despise the idea of bacherlorette parties because of the stupid things that can happen at them. 

I recommend you stop focusing or dwelling on this party. Just establish some clear boundaries about what is acceptable and what isn't. The way this is at this point, there are no reasons to impede the wedding. I wish you both well. I think you'll be just fine.


----------



## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> yes, but I was talking about hen parties and stag parties... not with strippers and topless women. Of course that would not be ok. The OP asked her partner not to go if it involved strippers, and she agreed. There are no strippers planned, anyway. What's the problem? The problem is a very paranoid husband to be...


You are talking about a poster that has been cheated on already. That has more then likely seen traits in his future wife that he saw in his previous one. It scared the crap out of him. 

You can see it from his first post to his last ones. He has calmed down from the start of this thread.


----------



## In Absentia

rugswept said:


> The bachelorette party is over and done with. Apparently it was just a bunch of women socializing with no inappropriate behavior. Unless you find out things that were inappropriate, it's time to move on from this unfortunate episode. I despise the idea of bacherlorette parties because of the stupid things that can happen at them.
> 
> I recommend you stop focusing or dwelling on this party. Just establish some clear boundaries about what is acceptable and what isn't. The way this is at this point, there are no reasons to impede the wedding. I wish you both well. I think you'll be just fine.



This ^^^ The OP has to step up, stopping being paranoid, otherwise this is going nowhere.


----------



## Tdbo

Worried235 said:


> So she's been on the night out. Not back from it yet.
> 
> She sent pictures and messages all yesterday to show she was thinking of me. I went out for a few drinks with my brother and a couple of friends.
> 
> I'm left with a few feelings:
> 
> - I will never understand why she left that picture and comments up. I think, as it wasn't an issue at the time, she just plain forgot about it.
> 
> - I can't still can't understand why a 40yr+ woman needs to go away with over a dozen friends to another city. It just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> - I feel like she had her night out and, from that perspective, it's done now.
> 
> - I'm 99% sure nothing untoward happened at all. Just like bleach doesn't kill all known germs, you can never be totally sure.
> 
> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.
> 
> I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.
> 
> I think I have to shrug and move on, the only choices I have from here are to continue with the wedding or not. To not get married when nothing actually happened would be foolish and cruel, but this hasn't been a good episode and I hope if others read this that may have these choices in their future, they will draw something from it all.
> 
> Thanks all again to those that didn't get pervy about butt licking and gave genuine support. It really helps/helped.


I have been following this since your first post.
This post prompted me to join this forum and respond.
One would have to be totally devoid of emotion to not feel the pain and despair in this post.
It is obvious that you do not feel safe in your relationship.
This is one of those times where perspective from the other side would be useful to determine if this is a communication problem between the two of you, or she really is as thoughtless or cruel as she appears.

The "Hen" issue to me was a simple one. Either both have the party or neither does. That worked for both my wife and myself 25 years ago when we got married. We both felt bachelor/bachelorette parties were a waste of time and resources. The decision had nothing to do with control. It had everything to do with respect for each other.

She knew about the pic on FB. It speaks volumes about her. You throw stuff on FB that you are proud of, ergo, she was proud of it. Only you can decide if it is a deal breaker.

At a minimum, the movement toward marriage needs to slow down, unless you want to be 2x divorced. If I were you, I would print out a copy of your post, striking the last paragraph, everything after the word "Episode" and the second sentence in the paragraph about the picture. I would leave it for her to read, along with a note that you are getting out of Dodge, taking the time to sort your s**t, and will be off the grid for at least 72 hours. Advise her that she is not to contact you until she hears from you. However, tell her to thoroughly read and be prepared to discuss that letter when you get back. Use that as a template for discussion.

You need to use the time for you. You need to reflect on your needs, and what it is going to take to make you safe in the relationship. You need to do a plus/delta on your relationship to determine if it should continue. You need to be able to clearly communicate that and what you see the path forward to be. Hopefully, when you talk, you will be able to agree on a path that works for both of you.

However, if she still doesn't get it after reading that post, I would advise you RUN not walk away from her. If she doesn't get it after reading that, she never will and you both are better finding that out now. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Andy1001

Tdbo said:


> I have been following this since your first post.
> This post prompted me to join this forum and respond.
> One would have to be totally devoid of emotion to not feel the pain and despair in this post.
> It is obvious that you do not feel safe in your relationship.
> This is one of those times where perspective from the other side would be useful to determine if this is a communication problem between the two of you, or she really is as thoughtless or cruel as she appears.
> 
> The "Hen" issue to me was a simple one. Either both have the party or neither does. That worked for both my wife and myself 25 years ago when we got married. We both felt bachelor/bachelorette parties were a waste of time and resources. The decision had nothing to do with control. It had everything to do with respect for each other.
> 
> She knew about the pic on FB. It speaks volumes about her. You throw stuff on FB that you are proud of, ergo, she was proud of it. Only you can decide if it is a deal breaker.
> 
> At a minimum, the movement toward marriage needs to slow down, unless you want to be 2x divorced. If I were you, I would print out a copy of your post, striking the last paragraph, everything after the word "Episode" and the second sentence in the paragraph about the picture. I would leave it for her to read, along with a note that you are getting out of Dodge, taking the time to sort your s**t, and will be off the grid for at least 72 hours. Advise her that she is not to contact you until she hears from you. However, tell her to thoroughly read and be prepared to discuss that letter when you get back. Use that as a template for discussion.
> 
> You need to use the time for you. You need to reflect on your needs, and what it is going to take to make you safe in the relationship. You need to do a plus/delta on your relationship to determine if it should continue. You need to be able to clearly communicate that and what you see the path forward to be. Hopefully, when you talk, you will be able to agree on a path that works for both of you.
> 
> However, if she still doesn't get it after reading that post, I would advise you RUN not walk away from her. If she doesn't get it after reading that, she never will and you both are better finding that out now. Best of luck to you.


The op certainly appears to have self esteem issues. He is afraid that this relationship is the best he’s ever going to have and seems to be getting ready for a lifetime of misery with a woman who he doesn’t trust. 
Op if you read a few threads on this forum you should learn that being on your own is a lot better than being married to someone who doesn’t care about you and has no compunction in doing something that hurts you.
She has promised a lot but we are told to judge someone by their actions not their words. 
And she did exactly what she wanted to do.  @Tdbo welcome to tam.


----------



## Marduk

Worried235 said:


> So she's been on the night out. Not back from it yet.
> 
> She sent pictures and messages all yesterday to show she was thinking of me. I went out for a few drinks with my brother and a couple of friends.
> 
> I'm left with a few feelings:
> 
> - I will never understand why she left that picture and comments up. I think, as it wasn't an issue at the time, she just plain forgot about it.
> 
> - I can't still can't understand why a 40yr+ woman needs to go away with over a dozen friends to another city. It just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> - I feel like she had her night out and, from that perspective, it's done now.
> 
> - I'm 99% sure nothing untoward happened at all. Just like bleach doesn't kill all known germs, you can never be totally sure.
> 
> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.
> 
> I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.
> 
> I think I have to shrug and move on, the only choices I have from here are to continue with the wedding or not. To not get married when nothing actually happened would be foolish and cruel, but this hasn't been a good episode and I hope if others read this that may have these choices in their future, they will draw something from it all.
> 
> Thanks all again to those that didn't get pervy about butt licking and gave genuine support. It really helps/helped.



Kobyashi Maru. 

Whatever you do man, don’t shrug and move on. 

Dig in deep. Figure it out. If you stay, your relationship can improve - but it can only improve based on honesty. 

Shrugging and moving on is exactly the problem here.


----------



## ABHale

Worried235 said:


> So she's been on the night out. Not back from it yet.
> 
> She sent pictures and messages all yesterday to show she was thinking of me. I went out for a few drinks with my brother and a couple of friends.
> 
> I'm left with a few feelings:
> 
> - I will never understand why she left that picture and comments up. I think, as it wasn't an issue at the time, she just plain forgot about it.
> 
> - I can't still can't understand why a 40yr+ woman needs to go away with over a dozen friends to another city. It just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> - I feel like she had her night out and, from that perspective, it's done now.
> 
> - I'm 99% sure nothing untoward happened at all. Just like bleach doesn't kill all known germs, you can never be totally sure.
> 
> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that.
> 
> I feel like it's been an expensive night out in terms of damaged trust, hurt feelings and a strong feeling she was going to have this night out whether it hurt me or not. It's left me feeling a bit isolated and it's brought back many feelings from the way my ex actively sought to hurt me in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I hope the feelings subside, because we have a wonderful relationship, but it will take a long time for me to feel 100% comfortable again.
> 
> I think I have to shrug and move on, the only choices I have from here are to continue with the wedding or not. To not get married when nothing actually happened would be foolish and cruel, but this hasn't been a good episode and I hope if others read this that may have these choices in their future, they will draw something from it all.
> 
> Thanks all again to those that didn't get pervy about butt licking and gave genuine support. It really helps/helped.



Why could she not show you the same respect and love you showed her when you didn’t go out of town for a week?


----------



## Marduk

ABHale said:


> Why could she not show you the same respect and love you showed her when you didn’t go out of town for a week?



That’s one of the many opportunities currently on the table that in hope he doesn’t squander.


----------



## aine

You have not yet married this woman and are already having trust issues. This is a huge red flag. To be honest her track record is a huge red flag. After what happened to you in your first marriage why on earth would you be attracted to that, it it a subconscious effort to make right what happened in your past? Or try and find out why you are attracted to such kind of women who have no boundaries. She also knows how you feel about all this after your XW's affair yet chooses to do what she wants regardless of how it makes you feel, another red flag.

I am really sorry but you will never fully be at peace in a marriage where you do not trust your spouse, getting married will not make anything different, just complicate it. Please please please think about your marriage carefully. YOu need to have counselling to build up your self esteem to find out what you will and will not accept. Work on yourself not on a relationship/marriage with someone else. When you know who you are and what you will not accept, then get married. To start with your value systems seem to be different.

It may be that you are overly sensitive in this area but i also think there are issues with her behavior too and her boundaries. Maybe your gut is warning you.


There are many many women out there who have the same values as you, good decent women who do not need to stoop to this level.


----------



## MattMatt

aine said:


> You have not yet married this woman and are already having trust issues. This is a huge red flag. To be honest her track record is a huge red flag. After what happened to you in your first marriage why on earth would you be attracted to that, it it a subconscious effort to make right what happened in your past? Or try and find out why you are attracted to such kind of women who have no boundaries. She also knows how you feel about all this after your XW's affair yet chooses to do what she wants regardless of how it makes you feel, another red flag.
> 
> I am really sorry but you will never fully be at peace in a marriage where you do not trust your spouse, getting married will not make anything different, just complicate it. Please please please think about your marriage carefully. YOu need to have counselling to build up your self esteem to find out what you will and will not accept. Work on yourself not on a relationship/marriage with someone else. When you know who you are and what you will not accept, then get married. To start with your value systems seem to be different.
> 
> It may be that you are overly sensitive in this area but i also think there are issues with her behavior too and her boundaries. Maybe your gut is warning you.
> 
> 
> There are many many women out there who have the same values as you, good decent women who do not need to stoop to this level.


He can't trust ANY woman, fully. And most men, too, are not to be trusted 100%.

His exwife shared his values. And look what happened there?


----------



## lovelygirl

Worried235 said:


> I feel like that night out cost me weeks of worry and the last week has been just awful. Earlier in the year, I wanted to have a week away as was burned out from running the business. It would


Seeeeeee, that's where it gets interesting here!!!!!! 

And believe me, reading this gets on my nerves. 

So, you canceled a short time away from family to meditate and relax by yourself, but you decided to sacrifice and not go so that your fiancee wouldn't get uncomfortable by the idea of you going away...... ???? 

And????? She was willing to put you in an almost hurtful situation *with her selfishness to keep on doing that bachelorette party*...even-though that was making you feel uncomfortable... but she decided to do it anyway???? 


I mean...how double-standard-ish is that???? How unfair is that??? 

She didn't want to comprehend and understand your time alone, but she thought that a bach.party with drinks and men-strippers, would be okayy???? 


I just ...I don't know. I'm afraid she might be walking all over you ...anytime soon! 

Sorry.


Really sorry.


----------



## Diana7

lovelygirl said:


> Seeeeeee, that's where it gest interesting here!!!!!!
> 
> And believe me, reading this gets on my nerves.
> 
> So, you canceled a short time away from family to meditate and relax by yourself, but you decided to sacrifice and not go so that your fiancee wouldn't get uncomfortable by the idea of you going away...... ????
> 
> And????? She was willing to put you in an almost hurtful situation *with her selfishness to keep on doing that bachelorette party*...even-though that was making you feel uncomfortable... but she decided to do it anyway????
> 
> 
> I mean...how double-standard-ish is that???? How unfair is that???
> 
> She didn't want to comprehend and understand your time alone, but she thought that a bach.party with drinks and men-strippers, would be okayy????
> 
> 
> I just ...I don't know. I'm afraid she might be walking all over you ...anytime soon!
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> 
> Really sorry.


Yes, that's why I suggested to him that he now books a few days away himself and sees what her reaction is. If she doesn't like it then its not hard to see that she has definitely got double values. 

Mind you, if a man I was dating thought it was ok to go to a stag do and lick a strippers butt, he would have been given the push ages ago. If he then went on another stag do despite me asking him not to, yet another reason not to get married. If he then didn't like the fact that I wanted a few days away, well, I would be a fool to consider marriage with so many red flags.


----------



## lovelygirl

Diana7 said:


> Yes, that's why I suggested to him that he now books a few days away himself and sees what her reaction is. If she doesn't like it then its not hard to see that she has definitely got double values.


Definitely!!!!! 

OP should book some vacation away from his SO and see what her reaction would be. 

If she's against this, It's time to throw it to her face that he'ss more than allowed to take that time off, just as she was allowed to have tha bach.party!!! 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## lovelygirl

Diana7 said:


> Its not a question of pressuring or forcing anything , but merely finding out that the person you are intending to spend the rest of you life with is on the same page about important things in life. So for example, if a man I was with thought it was ok to go and see strippers, and had done just a few year ago, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. It would be pointless for me to try and force him not to do it, the mere fact that he wanted to do it and had done it would show me that we are not compatible.


Yep. It's about the incompatibility of principles. 

If you think X is okay for me to do, while I think it's inappropriate for a married couple in general, then our differentiations start at the basic principles of things. 
From this moment, that's a huge incompatibility! 

What do I expect?? No matter if I tell him to stop acting a certain way or stop doing certain things, the issue is that even if he stops, he's doing it against his own will. 
He's doing it just to please me or shut my mouth but deeply he doesn't agree with my principle (or me with his). 
He'll stop doing it once or twice....but in the end...he'll resent it! So next time he'll overdo X because he has been acting out of his true nature/principles.

Therefore, it's better to discuss stuff beforehand rather than too late when you are considering to marry that person or are already married.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## lovelygirl

MattMatt said:


> Hopefully his new wife will be able to help him learn how to trust again.


I highly...but very highly.....


doubt it!!!  

If she was not able to make his trust return by changing the nature of the hen party or cancelling it at all.., then there's not much to expect.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## lovelygirl

The Middleman said:


> @Worried235
> As I read your last update, I couldn’t help but think that you sound miserable. So before you say “I do”, you need to have a heart to heart with your fiancé, and let her know how you feel about GNOs and going away with friends after marriage. If you feel that she has toxic friends, let her know how you feel about them. Make sure she knows what your boundaries and deal breakers are before you get married, otherwise you are going to be miserable in your marriage to her. Once you both agree to the boundaries, you need to be able to stick to them or suffer consequences. Boundaries with out consequences are meaningless.
> 
> Both of you need to go into this with both eyes open on how you feel about these things, because after you say “I Do”, it’s too late.


OP, you are getting some incredible advice on this forum! 

I agree with @The Middleman and everyone else who has said that you should carefully think before marrying her. Not because she went to a hen party, but *because you seem to share different values.* 

Hen parties might not be the core problem but when they're done against SO's will, that'd be very selfish of the other partner to continue doing them anyway. It screams that they don't really care THAT MUCH about how you feel.

To even think that you were so caring about her that you canceld your alone-trip a few months ago....


----------



## Robert22205

I think the ass licking picture on FB and her failure to immediately decline an invitation to the out of town party are huge red flags. 
Why? because your wife is not some inexperienced teenager). 

Every spouse or partner deserves to feel safe in the relationship. That requires being sensitive to your partner's special needs (e.g., from being cheated on in a previous relationship), day to day boundaries and social behavior that protects & respects your relationship.

FOCUS ON HER ACTIONS (not her words/excuses like: "I forgot about the pic" or "I'll cancel if YOU really want me to".
Offering to cancel at the last minute heaps a lot of guilt on you (that's manipulative) - especially since it's an invitation she should not have accepted.

I suspect your fiance is very good at manipulating you. She should have removed that ass licking picture immediately after dating you. And she should have voluntarily declined an out of town pub crawl.

We only know the details you share about your relationship. You say that your relationship is good in every other way (I'm not asking for those details). Only you can look at her day to day actions over the course of your relationship. 

Is there a history of her saying whatever it takes to make you feel good in advance of her actions or to justify herself afterward? Where the net result is that she pretty much always does/did what she wants.

Focus on her actions ... don't be guilted into marriage ... postpone if you don't feel safe!


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## phillybeffandswiss

He wants to be with her, leave him alone. I mean he has a couple of people berating him for being insecure, but she told him not to go on a trip alone because she felt he might leave. Of course she didn’t pressure him, apparently guilting someone is not pressure, but he is the insecure one.

They talked it out, he okay with it he’s worried about others instead himself. It is a very good trait, until it isn’t.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MattMatt said:


> Because his ex wife really did a number on him. Destroyed his faith and trust not only in women but in people in general.
> 
> Wrecked the lives of his children, too.
> 
> So his paranoia is based on that.
> 
> Hopefully his new wife will be able to help him learn how to trust again.


It's not fair to take out your baggage on a new partner. We all have past pain, it's up to us to heal from it enough to not become toxic in our next relationships.


----------



## Marduk

I think the fact that they’re both mature adults and that it appears double standards are already rife... as are trust issues...

Would make me think highly before taking the leap into marriage. 

I wonder what his fiancée would have done if the roles were reversed. I mean, he couldn’t even go away at all without her. I wonder if she found a compromising photo from his first bachelor party that was still public right before going on another one would have gone down. 

I bet he would have immediately cancelled the bachelor party. And I bet she’d still have problems with the whole thing. 

Goose and gander situation is occurring, I think. Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot, either intentionally or unintentionally, and that’s going to be an enlightening and difficult experience. 

Boy, do I know about that.


----------



## ABHale

Marduk said:


> I think the fact that they’re both mature adults and that it appears double standards are already rife... as are trust issues...
> 
> Would make me think highly before taking the leap into marriage.
> 
> I wonder what his fiancée would have done if the roles were reversed. I mean, he couldn’t even go away at all without her. I wonder if she found a compromising photo from his first bachelor party that was still public right before going on another one would have gone down.
> 
> I bet he would have immediately cancelled the bachelor party. And I bet she’d still have problems with the whole thing.
> 
> Goose and gander situation is occurring, I think. Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot, either intentionally or unintentionally, and that’s going to be an enlightening and difficult experience.
> 
> Boy, do I know about that.


I honestly think she could care less about a compromising photo that he might be in. I think she views these things much differently than he does.


----------



## Marduk

ABHale said:


> I honestly think she could care less about a compromising photo that he might be in. I think she views these things much differently than he does.



As evidenced by what?

Why did she have a problem with him going away on his own then?

It’s one thing to be ok with something as a concept, entirely another to actually experience it.


----------



## Gabriel

I think he's kind of stuck going forward. Precedence has been set. She is allowed to go on excursions and bent over backwards to prove trust by sending pics, etc. Guessing her friends were all rolling their eyes.

What happens next year when she gets invited on another girls trip? Maybe to an exciting city with nightclubs?

See, OP, you have to understand you are marrying someone who does this type of thing. Period. There are women who go on girls trips and get a little crazy, and there are some women who don't travel with girlfriends at all. It's quite common for a woman to be in the first category, like yours. Doesn't make her a bad person - my wife goes on 1-2/year, typically, and I have a few dudes I go on occasional guys trips with. 

But if you are NOT okay with this, you either 1) DONT marry her, 2) just live with it the way it is, or 3) tell her this isn't something you can tolerate, and leave her if she can't comply. And since it seems you are hell bent on going through with the wedding, you really are just left with 1 or 2. 3 is something you should say before the wedding day.

Honestly, I see #2 in your future.


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## bandit.45

This thread was all jacking and no ejaculation.


----------



## ABHale

Marduk said:


> As evidenced by what?
> 
> Why did she have a problem with him going away on his own then?
> 
> It’s one thing to be ok with something as a concept, entirely another to actually experience it.


 She didn’t care about her photo being up there. I think it was the fact that he was going away for a week by himself. He mentioned she thought he was leaving her.


----------



## Tdbo

The OP brought on much of the hen party conundrum on through his own actions.

He admitted that he knew about it for months. Why did he not deal with it then?

Instead the situation festers until the week before the event, in which his significant other points out that all the hens threw much of their "Chicken feed" into the event and it is non refundable. Of course, the perfect "Out." Cant disappoint the hens, the "Show" must go on.

Just curious, if there was any independent monitoring or verification of the event(s) of potential debauchery? Maybe it was all above board, or she was a "good girl," or perhaps, she made provisions to sanitize reporting of the event? Who Knows?

At this point, the only leverage that he appears to have is that she is scared he is going to leave her. Therefore, his only play is to do a hard flex on her and do what I outlined in my last post. The things that he said in his last post were devastating. Any woman that would not be devastated by what he said in that transmission is frankly not worth having a spouse, girlfriend, fiancee anyway. If he does not want to dump her, he at least needs to shift their relationship back to first gear to negotiate a future both can live with.

Failure to do that means he is simply working on his own personal hell, or his second divorce.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Marduk said:


> As evidenced by what?
> 
> Why did she have a problem with him going away on his own then?
> 
> It’s one thing to be ok with something as a concept, entirely another to actually experience it.


I would be uncomfortable with my partner going away on his own for a week without me, but if I saw a pic of him touching or kissing a stripper at his bachelor party 8 years before he met me, I wouldn't care at all. 

I don't see how they are even close to the same thing

One is something he is doing while with her now and the other would be something he did before he even knew her.


----------



## Marduk

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I would be uncomfortable with my partner going away on his own for a week without me, but if I saw a pic of him touching or kissing a stripper at his bachelor party 8 years before he met me, I wouldn't care at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how they are even close to the same thing
> 
> 
> 
> One is something he is doing while with her now and the other would be something he did before he even knew her.



They are close to the same thing because she’s literally going away to the same kind of event that this picture was taken from.

He wanted to go away to something totally innocent and cancelled it because she was uncomfortable for reasons not at all to do with him. 

She wanted to go away to something maybe not innocent and didn’t cancel it because he was uncomfortable for reasons totally to do with her. 

Goose and gander.


----------



## Marduk

ABHale said:


> She didn’t care about her photo being up there. I think it was the fact that he was going away for a week by himself. He mentioned she thought he was leaving her.



She literally was going away for her hen party. 

There is no leg to stand on here for her. She blew it - maybe not enough to call off the wedding, but she blew it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Marduk said:


> They are close to the same thing because she’s literally going away to the same kind of event that this picture was taken from.
> 
> He wanted to go away to something totally innocent and cancelled it because she was uncomfortable for reasons not at all to do with him.
> 
> She wanted to go away to something maybe not innocent and didn’t cancel it because he was uncomfortable for reasons totally to do with her.
> 
> Goose and gander.


The post you responded to was about the picture. 

"I honestly think she could care less about a compromising photo that he might be in. I think she views these things much differently than he does."


----------



## Marduk

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The post you responded to was about the picture.
> 
> "I honestly think she could care less about a compromising photo that he might be in. I think she views these things much differently than he does."


My point is that they are one in the same. He's worried about the hen party. He finds a public example of her behaviour at her last one, and talks to her about going on this one. She placates him, and goes.

Who's to say what his response would have been to the picture if she wasn't going on another hen party?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Marduk said:


> My point is that they are one in the same. He's worried about the hen party. He finds a public example of her behaviour at her last one, and talks to her about going on this one. She placates him, and goes.
> 
> Who's to say what his response would have been to the picture if she wasn't going on another hen party?


Let’s actually make it the same.

This is from the OP:


Worried235 said:


> S*he is currently on holiday, returning in the next few days* so we haven't been able to discuss this in person and my feelings have been all over the place.


Yet, when the roles were reversed:


Worried235 said:


> Earlier in the year,* I wanted to have a week away* as was burned out from running the business. It would have had to have been by myself because of childcare issues. *Fiancee was clearly worried about this and it upset her because she worried I was using it as an excuse to leave*. I told her I wasn't, but thought long and hard about it and decided not to go - because I knew she would worry and I couldn't put her through that


He’s happy and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend he’s the only one insecure or has baggage.

So, she has two solo trips and he canceled his vacation until she could go. Unequal partnerships are rough, but if he is good with it than I am good. I don’t live his life.


----------



## lovelygirl

What @phillybeffandswiss said, she goes on holiday and gets to have a bach party with some ...not-so-clear bounderies, yet she doesn't want @Worried235 to take a solo holiday for relaxation.

yep! This couple is doing great! 

So great that it baffles me and makes me want to take a valium now to sleep well cuz these stories just make me roll my eyes .... to the point of insomnia.



Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## Plan 9 from OS

lovelygirl said:


> What @phillybeffandswiss said, she goes on holiday and gets to have a bach party with some ...not-so-clear bounderies, yet she doesn't want @Worried235 to take a solo holiday for relaxation.
> 
> yep! This couple is doing great!
> 
> So great that it baffles me and makes me want to take a valium now to sleep well cuz these stories just make me roll my eyes .... to the point of insomnia.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


Just finished reading this thread. I agree that the fact that she was upset about the OP taking a holiday for himself - with him ultimately having to share his excursion with her - while she assumed that going away on her own with friends was perfectly acceptable. I'm curious to learn if there are more double standards in the relationship that he has accepted without even realizing it. IMHO, the existence of the double standards would be a much bigger red flag than her going away for a "bachlorette party". I get the 8 year old photos of her engaging in ass licking; however, establishing separate rules in the relationship is more troubling than what she did 8 years ago on one night.


----------



## Diana7

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I would be uncomfortable with my partner going away on his own for a week without me, but if I saw a pic of him touching or kissing a stripper at his bachelor party 8 years before he met me, I wouldn't care at all.
> 
> I don't see how they are even close to the same thing
> 
> One is something he is doing while with her now and the other would be something he did before he even knew her.


The fact that she did it not that many years ago, and still knowingly had it on her facebook page, says a lot. Whether she was with him or not is irrelevant to what is ok to her.


----------



## lovelygirl

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Just finished reading this thread. I agree that the fact that she was upset about the OP taking a holiday for himself - with him ultimately having to share his excursion with her - while she assumed that going away on her own with friends was perfectly acceptable. I'm curious to learn if there are more double standards in the relationship that he has accepted without even realizing it. IMHO, the *existence of the double standards would be a much bigger red flag than her going away for a "bachlorette party"*. I get the 8 year old photos of her engaging in ass licking; however, establishing separate rules in the relationship is more troubling than what she did 8 years ago on one night.


That is totally true. It's more about unfairness rather than some specific problem like the bach party.

I personally don't have a problem with bach.party per se, but it's how you organize it that matters more.


----------



## Worried235

I just would like to deal with a few of the points raised. I'm reading the advice and it is still helpful.

I can't give too much information because my situation - as many are - is like many others in the broad picture, but the individual details are easy to identify.

Several years ago, I put our whole relationship on pause for months. I tried to go back to my then ex. My now fiancee stood by me. She didn't waiver. Not for one second. She knows I kissed my ex during that time. Although my fiancee and I were not together at that point, she still stood by me and doesn't ever throw that in my face.

We have had a complicated start. She never criticises me. She is always incredibly loving and giving. She is generous. A good mother. A good business partner. A good friend. She has changed since she met me. This is for a few reasons - one of which was a major life event which changes many people. She also met me. And I am awesome.

She does none of the manipulation, bullying and complaining my ex did. We have travelled together all over the world and been in some really stressful situations and we never fall out.

She admires me, as I do her. 

I have no -zero- evidence that this episode was anything but a blip. My whole point of posting here is because many here understand the feeling that everything is built on sand and not knowing if *anything* is true - if everything might disappear tomorrow after a conversation you never thought you would have from someone you trusted with your life.

I am thinking of going away for a couple of days walking in what passes for wilderness in the UK and think it all through, but I don't feel I need to do that, but advice on here means I probably will.


----------



## Diana7

Worried235 said:


> I just would like to deal with a few of the points raised. I'm reading the advice and it is still helpful.
> 
> I can't give too much information because my situation - as many are - is like many others in the broad picture, but the individual details are easy to identify.
> 
> Several years ago, I put our whole relationship on pause for months. I tried to go back to my then ex. My now fiancee stood by me. She didn't waiver. Not for one second. She knows I kissed my ex during that time. Although my fiancee and I were not together at that point, she still stood by me and doesn't ever throw that in my face.
> 
> We have had a complicated start. She never criticises me. She is always incredibly loving and giving. She is generous. A good mother. A good business partner. A good friend. She has changed since she met me. This is for a few reasons - one of which was a major life event which changes many people. She also met me. And I am awesome.
> 
> She does none of the manipulation, bullying and complaining my ex did. We have travelled together all over the world and been in some really stressful situations and we never fall out.
> 
> She admires me, as I do her.
> 
> I have no -zero- evidence that this episode was anything but a blip. My whole point of posting here is because many here understand the feeling that everything is built on sand and not knowing if *anything* is true - if everything might disappear tomorrow after a conversation you never thought you would have from someone you trusted with your life.
> 
> I am thinking of going away for a couple of days walking in what passes for wilderness in the UK and think it all through, but I don't feel I need to do that, but advice on here means I probably will.


It will do you good to get away, and we do have some great areas of wilderness here in the UK. :wink2:


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> It will do you good to get away, and we do have some great areas of wilderness here in the UK. :wink2:


Do we? :grin2:


----------



## ABHale

Marduk said:


> She literally was going away for her hen party.
> 
> There is no leg to stand on here for her. She blew it - maybe not enough to call off the wedding, but she blew it.


I agree with you that she blew it.


----------



## ABHale

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Let’s actually make it the same.
> 
> This is from the OP:
> 
> 
> Yet, when the roles were reversed:
> 
> He’s happy and that’s fine, but let’s not pretend he’s the only one insecure or has baggage.
> 
> So, she has two solo trips and he canceled his vacation until she could go. Unequal partnerships are rough, but if he is good with it than I am good. I don’t live his life.


To be fair she was on holiday with her kids the week being talked about.


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## ABHale

Op said that they both do things separately with their kids.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Do we? :grin2:


Sure, many. North wales, The lake district, Scottish highlands etc. Beautiful. :smile2:


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## Marduk

Diana7 said:


> Sure, many. North wales, The lake district, Scottish highlands etc. Beautiful. :smile2:



Cumbria is one of my favourite places in the world. As is Cairngorms.


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## phillybeffandswiss

ABHale said:


> To be fair she was on holiday with her kids the week being talked about.


To be fair, kids on a trip doesn't negate my point. 



ABHale said:


> Op said that they both do things separately with their kids.


If he was going to leave her he would take his kids. Remember, later on, he specifcally said their "respective" children. So, she has baggage as well.

In the same post I quoted he says she can go by herself with the kids and with her friends.

The toxic friends and stripper picture set him off. She fixed it and he is good. That is all that matters to me.


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## Diana7

Marduk said:


> Cumbria is one of my favourite places in the world. As is Cairngorms.


We visit Cumbria twice a year as we have close family there. :smile2:


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## Jus260

Diana7 said:


> We visit Cumbria twice a year as we have close family there. :smile2:


I never thought I would read such language from Diana.


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## MattMatt

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Just finished reading this thread. I agree that the fact that she was upset about the OP taking a holiday for himself - with him ultimately having to share his excursion with her - while she assumed that going away on her own with friends was perfectly acceptable. I'm curious to learn if there are more double standards in the relationship that he has accepted without even realizing it. IMHO, the existence of the double standards would be a much bigger red flag than her going away for a "bachlorette party". I get the 8 year old photos of her engaging in ass licking; however, establishing separate rules in the relationship is more troubling than what she did 8 years ago on one night.


I think that some people are confusing the licking of a buttock with something far nastier that lurks within their imagination.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MattMatt said:


> I think that some people are confusing the licking of a buttock with something far nastier that lurks within their imagination.


^This. Unless OP states otherwise, I'm assuming it was a cheek and she wasn't rimming the guy in public. People were talking about her getting an oral infection FFS.


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## Nucking Futs

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> ^This. Unless OP states otherwise, I'm assuming it was a cheek and she wasn't rimming the guy in public. People were talking about her getting an oral infection FFS.


That cheek may have just come from sitting on a public toilet. :surprise:


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## niceguy47460

If I was him I would be watching her conversations with the other women that went because sooner or later they will talk about what happened at the party


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## alpfabetti

I think you should choose what you like. Wedding traditions are gradually changing, which is impossible not to rejoice. It is not just a ceremony now but a celebration of love, friendship, and human relations


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## DownByTheRiver

Maybe the answer is that they have to have it someplace public where a stripper would not even be allowed. Honestly I kind of think bachelor and bachelorette parties ought to be done away with.


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## frenchpaddy

the topic is from 2019 the op was asking for advice on what was going to happen a week later any avoice now is too late, 
better to open a new topic about bachelor and bachelorette parties if people feel the need to get things out


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## Andy1001

Zombie thread.


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## MattMatt

"Good grief" said Zombie Cat. "A thrice reanimated thread reanimated again? Time for Kitten Power to assert itself and close it down for ever!"


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