# Did you ever notice?



## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Those that are strong advocates for D recommend it right away, don't cool down or get yourself under control just do it.

Those that tend to fall towards the R say just wait a bit don't make any rash decisions give yourself time to figure it out.

Now I am in R but I don't not believe it is for everyone and for many D is the way to go (not 100% R is the best for me either but giving it a try) so I am not condemning anyone's choice but why the rush?

Yeah some will say the faster you get away from the wayward the better off you will be why waste any more time with them but what's a few months (or longer if you need it) to get things sorted out and make a good exit plan.

Once again I am not saying anyone's choice is right or wrong you make your decisions based on the information in front of you and your own personal beliefs but I would like to get some
responses on the reasons for quick action.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Filing for divorce brings the seriousness of the situation to the wayward spouse immediately. It is shock and awe. If it doesn't work you might as well go through with it. The next thing is exposure. No one wants to be accused of cheating and have everyone no it. The stronger the bs the better the out come.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Thoughts on decisiveness...



> In the words of the ancients, one should make his decision within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break through to the other side.





> When one has made a decision to kill a person, even if it will be very difficult to succeed by advancing straight ahead, it will not do to think about doing it in a long, roundabout way. One's heart may slacken, he may miss his chance, and by and large there will be no success. The Way of the Samurai is one of immediacy, and it is best to dash in headlong.


Quotes taken from Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well tbf- 

if you choose divorce then filing right away is best
if you choose R then filing for divorce right away is best


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

to me, its a matter of how much time and effort do you want to put into something that may not bear fruit?

read many of the threads here where people threw away 5 years of their life in R that ended back at square 1.

knowing what I know now, my advice to ANYONE going through something like this, would be to divorce IMMEDIATELY. then you will really find out if the X is committed, let them earn you back and re-marry on different terms.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

In my case, I tried to reconcile with my ex--not knowing but thinking I did know the truth of her cheating. It was an utter failure to have wasted all those years.

In retrospect, I know that i should have dumped her the second I found out she was cheating on me.

I wasted money, resources, my self respect, and time, way too much time, on her in a failed attempt to save our marriage.

Most of that time? She was still cheating in secret. All she had done was double down on her affair(s).

Divorce was the only option, I just delayed it to a hugely stupid length of time. my strategy of wanting to know the full truth and accepting a big lie as truth was a tragic mistake.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

You know I don't think any Bs who is trying to reconcile doesn't have the what if it is all a waste of time argument in their head, I know I do.
Down the road if she cheats again or if I just can't get over it enough to have a worthwhile relationship then I guess I might look at the time spent in R as wasted more than likely it would be an investment that I did not get a positive return or a gamble that I lost.
Out of all the things in this world to take a gamble on I think your marriage would be at the top of the list, although there are many stories here where I say there is just no way to overcome it, the current information, the history together and personal beliefs make every situation unique.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

A pre-nup seems a way to go. This is when you are thinking more or less rationally about things like that. Then trust the plan if it happens as that was when you were rational. 

Marriage - an arrangement where she hopes he will change but doesn't; and, where he hopes she won't change but does.

Re-marry - Where hope wins out over experience. 

Pessimist - An experienced optimist.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

The "get divorce papers" isn't about actually divorcing. It's about showing the WS that the BS is serious and there are consequences to their choices and actions. It provides the WS with the "OH CRAP" moment that they usually wouldn't have.

This doesn't work for EVERY situation, but I'd say 95% of the time, the WS needs a wake up call.

There are a select small group of WS's who have that "Oh crap" moment before seeing divorce papers. There are some here who post regularly, but they are the exception, not the rule.

If a WS is showing TRUE complete remorse, transparency and ownership of their choices....then you don't need to do a wake up call. If the WS is in ANY way NOT "all in" then they need the wake up call. 

It also serves to empower the BS. Many BS's feel powerless after they find out about an affair. This gives them control back of their own life and destiny.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am one of those that tilt towards R but based on my own experience I would tell anyone file for a D right away. 

In my case R was made more difficult because I did not take all of this hard earned advice to heart. I / We stubbed our toes a great deal based upon my anger and her desire to sweep it under the rug.

R is a difficult road and should not be taken lightly. The pain of being a BS never completely goes away, and I really believe that R or D the trauma would still have been there to deal with and what I have seen from friends that the trust issues work there way into new relationships post Affairs.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

reconciliation is the biggest gamble one person can make in there life with no real certainty and requires a great deal of time, money, effort, and a large chunk of your soul/sanity with the reward being having the marriage you should have had in the first place personally it's a gamble I couldn't recommend investing in life is too short and five years is a lot of time to invest in someone who took less time to make the decision to throw away their marriage.

Just my 2 cents.


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## gmsisko1 (May 25, 2014)

love=pain said:


> You know I don't think any Bs who is trying to reconcile doesn't have the what if it is all a waste of time argument in their head, I know I do.
> Down the road if she cheats again or if I just can't get over it enough to have a worthwhile relationship then I guess I might look at the time spent in R as wasted more than likely it would be an investment that I did not get a positive return or a gamble that I lost.
> Out of all the things in this world to take a gamble on I think your marriage would be at the top of the list, although there are many stories here where I say there is just no way to overcome it, the current information, the history together and personal beliefs make every situation unique.


I am in R myself. My wife seems to be honest with me, and I have access to all her email, Facebook, exc. she also seems to be remorseful. (Those things are very important)


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

I believe any big decision in life warrants some time. However, it realy depends on the circumstances and the individuals involved.

It is hard to R, no doubt, but I look at it like this, if it ever happens again, I will D very very fast and never look back. I think it has conditioned me to be ready mentally just in case. I often think of how my life would be, being single again. It would not be too bad at all knowing what what I know now compared to being in my 20s.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

So I guess what I was saying that under certain circumstances its good to wait.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

In most countries you need a long time to complete divorce. Filing doesn't necessarily mean it will become final, you usually can stop it any time you want.
But filing for D sends a clear message to the WS that you really mean business and it's usually the best way to cut the crap early.
In too many instances, when the BS shows eagerness to R, it sounds to the WS ears as an open invitation to eat cake.
I think that if you want to try R for real (not a fake R) it's still best to start out filing for D.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

I'm in the group who usually thinks the BS should divorce, mainly because I just don't understand the point of staying with someone that can never be trusted. 

Most of the stories I see in here it wasn't the WS that told them about the affair. They found out themselves and in the majority of cases they'll deny everything unless you have absolute proof of it happening. And if you don't have proof of everything that's happened you'll never find out unless you make them take a lie detector test (And these aren't 100% affective) A lot of them will say the reason they don't tell is they don't want to hurt the BS which isn't the case. The feelings of the BS never once enters their head. They only think of themselves and don't want to get dumped. They're selfish. It's why they cheated in the first place.

And the worst ones are the WS who after getting caught laugh in the BS face saying how useless they are and run off with the OM/OW. But when they either get dumped or get sick of them they come back and the BS takes them back. Its just sad. They don't come back because they've suddenly realised they love the BS and feel bad for treating them like crap. They just don't want to be single. There is a good chance they'll be looking for someone else again. They'll just be even more careful you don't find out until they are sure its going to work out.

And one last thing that bothers me in threads is when the BS says the WS is remorseful because they're crying. That doesn't necessarily mean that. They could be crying because everyone is going to find out what sort of person they are or they won't be able to continue having a nice family life while screwing other people. Look at it this way. If a shoplifter got caught by security and started crying and saying sorry you wouldn't really think they suddenly feel guilty about what they did. They're just upset because they are going to get wrong for what they did.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<if you choose divorce then filing right away is best
if you choose R then filing for divorce right away is best>>

As many have said, filing isn't divorcing, it's making the WS aware that it's serious enough to warrant that.

I wish I had done so on the first DD in 2012. I considered it, but tabled it when he seemed remorseful and serious about R. Then after the 2nd DD a year later during one of our many conversations he actually said "Maybe you were too easy on me the last time" which did not help things and I let him know it, that he could now somehow blame me for the recurrence because I wasn't shattered enough, that I didn't go ballistic (I did , but in my own way) and leave him. 

I guess he was telling me I should have filed, and maybe he is right. He knows now that there will be no other option should he try this again.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<I'm in the group who usually thinks the BS should divorce, mainly because I just don't understand the point of staying with someone that can never be trusted. >>

Part of it may be that, by going through this process, we are now at the point that no one can be fully trusted anymore. That ship has sailed because the one person you thought would never do this, the person you chose because of their virtues, did it anyway. What are the odds that the next person you choose would be able to be trusted beyond a doubt 100%?

That's kind of where I am at now. Why would I want to take another chance like that. I think if it happened again I would think twice before putting my heart so fully in the hands of another again. I see some on here talk about dating again soon after divorce and I wonder how they can do it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

SevenYears said:


> *And one last thing that bothers me in threads is when the BS says the WS is remorseful because they're crying. That doesn't necessarily mean that. They could be crying because everyone is going to find out what sort of person they are or they won't be able to continue having a nice family life while screwing other people.* Look at it this way. If a shoplifter got caught by security and started crying and saying sorry you wouldn't really think they suddenly feel guilty about what they did. They're just upset because they are going to get wrong for what they did.


This, in bold!!

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

PamJ said:


> <<I'm in the group who usually thinks the BS should divorce, mainly because I just don't understand the point of staying with someone that can never be trusted. >>
> 
> Part of it may be that, by going through this process, we are now at the point that no one can be fully trusted anymore. That ship has sailed because the one person you thought would never do this, the person you chose because of their virtues, did it anyway. What are the odds that the next person you choose would be able to be trusted beyond a doubt 100%?
> 
> That's kind of where I am at now. Why would I want to take another chance like that. I think if it happened again I would think twice before putting my heart so fully in the hands of another again. I see some on here talk about dating again soon after divorce and I wonder how they can do it.


Its true that you don't know that someone else can be trusted 100%. But that's still better than knowing 100% that the WS can't be trusted. Ask yourself this question - If you had to choose, who would you rather ask to watch your house while on holiday? Someone who you've never known to steal or someone you know for a fact is a thief. The person who's never stolen may still steal but they are still the best choice.

Plus you don't have to date straight away. I think it's best to stay single until you can sort yourself out.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

> And one last thing that bothers me in threads is when the BS says the WS is remorseful because they're crying.


I hate how when you mention DNA or paternity testing to male BS it seems like 95% of them reflexively default to "well since (to me anyway) the kid looks like me they MUST be mine" or maybe deep down don't want to know but just won't say it. In my profession I see kids all the time, as well as plenty who resemble me or my relatives. Doesn't mean we're related even if for some reason I wanted any of them to be.

But I also agree with your point. Too many BS don't understand what remorse is or how it should manifest into action on the WS part. Crying and pouting doesn't count as remorse.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<And one last thing that bothers me in threads is when the BS says the WS is remorseful because they're crying.>>

On the day , after a week or so of trickle truthing, that I found out the what he had done was SO much more than what he was admitting to, he cried. It sickened me because it was then about him again. He was scared, HE was frustrated because it was "What do you want me to DO!" It was about him, or, he was acting to let me know how sorry/upset he was. I told him I did not need his tears and walked away. He followed and I told him what I needed was the WHOLE truth, no more BS. I finally got it, as as close as I will ever get, I think.

Part of me believes it is all out and over, no evidence otherwise. Part of me thinks though, that if there was more that was worse, like if they had actually met (this was a virtual texting/sexting/phone LD affair) he may never tell me at this point.


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## Laurel (Oct 14, 2013)

love=pain said:


> Those that are strong advocates for D recommend it right away, don't cool down or get yourself under control just do it.
> 
> Those that tend to fall towards the R say just wait a bit don't make any rash decisions give yourself time to figure it out.
> 
> ...


I am in R but didn't expect to be. I had suspicions a year prior to D-Day and did a soft confront without any evidence (I didn't know about TAM then to realize that was a bad, bad idea). But when I happened upon the irrefutable proof of what he was doing, I packed up and moved out, leaving him a note telling him I was divorcing him (and I fully planned on doing just that). The realization he was about to lose me and our marriage was what broke him out of the fog and convinced him to come completely clean. He didn't have anything left to lose at that point since he'd already lost it. His reaction completely shocked me. I had expected denials, rug-sweeping, tickle-truthing, etc. and it turned out to be the complete opposite. 

I think it is absolutely essential that the WS realizes the BS is dead serious about being willing to walk out on the marriage - no matter whether the ultimate outcome is D or R. The WS needs to know the serious consequences of their actions. Otherwise they will just do damage control. You don't have to finalize the divorce immediately (I never actually ended up filing), but the threat of losing the BS must be there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

While it's important to realize that -- usually -- all that we get is one side of any given story, all that any of us can do is to offer advice, input, and support based on the information that is given to us by the OP. If the OP omits -- by way of either intent or oversight -- information that would otherwise be pertinent to his or her situation, and he or she receives "flawed" or unduly biased advice as a result, that's not really the fault of anyone here (other than the OP, of course). This is, however, exactly why we tend to ask so many questions.

I try to always take the BS's stated goal into account but, if I see a BS scrounging and scraping for hope where there appears to be none, I'm going to walk over to the woodpile and grab a 2x4. If, on the other hand, I feel that, based on what has been provided to us, the OP is charging too hard toward an outcome that he or she may regret, I may feel inclined to counsel either further reflection or -- at the least -- a degree of restraint.

Either way, sometimes the correct answer really is divorce, and I'd rather scream that over and over and over again than watch a betrayed spouse (and possibly children as well) wallow in misery, all the while hoping beyond all reason to see a change that is never going to come.

Unless, that is, he or she stands up for himself or herself, saying simply, "No more."


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Before this thread turns into a pro reconciliation verses against reconciliation let me just say this. I don't believe all ws our evil nor do I believe they are all unremorse full we have seen many waywards on this site and other's who do everything in there power to fix them selves and repair the damage they have dealt to their marriage....my beliefs are not built out of pain or anger toward wayward spouses but merely understanding what I can accept as a person with one life and for many betrayed spouses acceptance is a mountain simply too high to climb some can and I applaud them but not everyone can do it.

like I said before in an earlier post reconciliation is a gamble a 5 plus year gamble in fact with the betrayed spouse with the most to loss if unsuccessful R is a role of the dice and nothing more


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Thoughts on decisiveness...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that quoting fiction isn't the best way to advocate a course of action. Lets stick with reality. The length of time one takes to make the decision to R or D, isn't based on some Rambo bullheadedness, but on Self-knowledge. If a person knows what their limits are, the decision almost makes itself. I divorced my wife immediately, because I knew what I could or could not live with. It didn't take a lot of time to figure it out, and my decision would not have changed regardless of whether it was 10 days or 10 months.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> well tbf-
> 
> if you choose divorce then filing right away is best
> if you choose R then filing for divorce right away is best


Exactly so. No decision is written in stone. You can always change your mind later. This is the reason that divorce proceedings take quite some time in most places, so that every opportunity is available to alter the outcome, or to insure that the best decision is being made.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

love=pain said:


> Those that are strong advocates for D recommend it right away, don't cool down or get yourself under control just do it.
> 
> Those that tend to fall towards the R say just wait a bit don't make any rash decisions give yourself time to figure it out.
> .


_"I'm pretty sure 'enforcing the boundary' is the most important part of the boundary" _- Jerry Seinfeld.

If you don't really have boundaries, that's your thing. Nobody else is going to change it, so why do you care?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> It is a hard choice when faced with adultery. You live with the consequences for a lifetime. Divorce or reconciliation does not make it go away. *Look at all the divorced BS's on this board. Most have not moved on.*


As time goes by and my view of the scene elevates above ground zero of my own divorce.. I start to notice that several here just want revenge for their own failed marriages.. It is like they don't want anyone to succeed. 

The one big thing no one ever told me that reconciliation is forever. I sadly thought that going to therapy and then being declared fixed meant we could move on with our lives as normal. Again sadly I discovered the hard way it wasn't.. 

I truly believe that having a limited or small network of people to vent to slows down your healing process.. 

When I was alone late at night I was here or crying.. 
At work I had my friends and co workers. 
At home I had my mom and brother and other friends.. 
And then I had therapy once or twice a week as I felt I needed it..

I couldn't survive just by going to therapy once or twice a week. I couldn't survive not going to therapy either.. I needed a professional who understood the human psyche. He just didn't help me with my divorce and my emotions but he is also helping me integrate back into a semi normal relationship.


Just as a side note.. There is also another problem here.. Some of this stuff just gets lost in translation here. I just cannot convey my feelings sometimes adequately here.. 

Sometimes I am upset for my own insecurities and I fly off and post things that are just off mark on my own personal relationship. Sometimes I go back weeks later and delete the thread.. Because I was wrong or took something the wrong way. Again me just being a d1ck.. 

So you sometimes have to look past the layer of Bullsh1t people post to get what really is happening.. Again which is what my therapist does and is teaching me..


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

x598 said:


> to me, its a matter of how much time and effort do you want to put into something that may not bear fruit?
> 
> read many of the threads here where people threw away 5 years of their life in R that ended back at square 1.
> 
> knowing what I know now, my advice to ANYONE going through something like this, would be to divorce IMMEDIATELY. then you will really find out if the X is committed, let them earn you back and re-marry on different terms.


You know some Ex-spouses or soon to be Ex-spouses just don't know or understand how to do that.. 

Some just resolve to the fact that my Betrayed Spouse doesn't want to fix this and does not want me back and I understand why.. 

Some just don't have the right tools in their emotional toolbox to fix this.. They need a wrench and all they have is screw drivers.. 

You know divorce isn't easy, it can be long, messy and expensive. Plus the *possible* trauma to the kids. I say possible because for the most part kids are resilient, but some kids do take it bad. I know my middle brother took my moms and dads divorce bad and pretty much never recovered, until he died.

But there are times where divorce is a must even IF you don't see it.. I didn't see it.. I was too swallowed up in my own grief to notice anything to be honest..

So while you are waiting for that wait don't leave me I will do anything and never get it, you start to get upset yourself thinking. Wow, they are okay with this, well then fvck them and move alone with divorce. What you are missing is their silence is a plea from YOU to accept them back, they just really don't know how to say it..


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

love=pain said:


> Now I am in R but I don't not believe it is for everyone and for many D is the way to go (not 100% R is the best for me either but giving it a try) *so I am not condemning anyone's choice but why the rush?*


Because not all of us are cut from the same cloth. What works for one person may not be what works for another.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Hardtohandle said:


> some kids do take it bad. I know my middle brother took my moms and dads divorce bad and pretty much never recovered, until he died...


Sounds like a good reason not to do any of the following:

1. Cheat.
2. Beat your spouse.
3. Gamble away the rent/house payment money
4. Develop a heroin addiction.
5. Commit violent crimes and become incarcerated.

Sadly, people who do these things typically don't really think about others, including their kids, and it's not anybody else's job to control their behavior unless and until they are locked up for something they did, and then it's still not their spouse's job.

So who's to blame? The cheater, violent perpetrator, the compulsive gambler/drug addict. End of story.

Subtle blame-shifting doesn't fly, IMO.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I guess I might look at the time spent in R as wasted more than likely it would be an investment that I did not get a positive return or a gamble that I lost."

love=pain,

You have to follow the path that you feel is right for you no matter what...be true to yourself first and foremost.

But personally, I could never 'gamble' with someone who's honesty, integrity, and loyalty have been proven to be worthless sh*t.

I guess that's why I kicked my LTgf to the curb instantly after finding out about her cheating...didn't even need to find out the full details before showing her the door.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

In my case, a quick divorce was the logical solution. My ex wanted to change gender. It's not something we could sit down to discuss, unless it was to decide how we would split things between us. It was an absolute.

While I'm well over it now, at the time I was floored and felt completely betrayed and abandoned. There's a lot more to the story, but I don't regret moving forward with divorce as fast as possible. This person had lied to me and deceived me for over 10 years and because of this, I was denied the chance to see the face behind the mask, so that I could RUN before I lost too much. 

Sometimes there really is no conceivable or possible reason to R.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Also to me it just seems like WS who immediately file for divorce/separation tend to wake their WS up out of the fog a hell of a lot quicker and have them wanting to end the affair. 

Much more so than the ones who try to instaforgive, immediately dive headfirst into reconciliation , or who beg/plead/try to reason or nice their WS out of the affair. The BS who engage in the latter behavior tend to not do as well IMO as the WS who take decisive action.

"The one who is most willing to walk away from the relationship, is the one who controls the relationship." is my signature for a reason. The BS who displays to their WS that they're ready to walk out the door tend to show their WS that they have value. At least in a quicker and more effective way than those who automatically go into reconciliation mode or just linger in limbo and false R for weeks, months or years.

I mean in the year and a half I've been here, IMO it's pretty rare for a BS to immediately file for divorce or go scorched Earth and not have the WS go into panic mode and try to hold onto their marriage and BS for dear life. The ones who take a less aggressive approach? They're the ones whose WS stay in the fog, limbo, can't decide between the two, etc etc.

To me it's not so much about automatically divorcing because you don't want to bother with the marriage as much as sending a very strong message to the WS that you won't put up with being disrespected, betrayed, and lied too. 

At the end of the day you can always call off a divorce.


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