# Pain Seems Insurmountable



## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

Hello all,

Today is 2-weeks from D-Day. My WW are in counseling now and have had a couple of breakthroughs. I don't want to share my full story right now as it is so painful for me to recount everything.

The short story is that my wife of 11 years had a 4+ month affair with a MUCH younger man and we are trying to work it out.

I am in emotional hell though. I can't get my mind off of it. It is affecting my work (I'm on the clock right now), my sleep and it feels like this will NEVER END.

I love this woman and I believe she loves me too. After her initial wall of "I don't know how I feel. I need time to figure it out blah blah blah.", I wrote her a four page letter that put it all on the line, explaining how selfish she was in doing what she did and in trying to set the rules and tone in the immediate aftermath.

She came home bawling and telling me how sorry she is, etc.

We talked with the MC a little about my feelings of inadequacy, and he framed it in a way that makes logical sense.....that it wasn't really about the sex (same thing the wife says), and not to beat myself up trying to compete with a 22-year old (I'm 37) because it isn't realistic (men get better as sexual partners as we get older, but won't have the stamina or eagerness of younger men, who tend to be more selfish in bed).

I've accepted the fact that it happened, but I can't help but feel that my wife will never have that sense of excitement with me that she had with her AP. 

I'm also perturbed by the moments of tenderness they had. I worry that she will never see me again as someone she can share that with or feel the drive she once had for intimacy with me.

We have had sex a few times, but always at my initiation. It has seemed like a chore to her. She says right now she just doesn't have any drive at all, and I want to believe her but in light of all of the lies and betrayal part of me wonders if it's because she just can't get those feelings about me. She says she wants her drive to come back and she "wants to want to" but is dealing with the stress on our marriage and the sudden end to her secret life and the things about it that made her feel beautiful and wanted (this kid knew how to push her buttons). She said that she doesn't love him but does have feelings for him as she can't sleep with someone without some kind of emotional attachment.

While I can comprehend all of the different ways of looking at this and know that time, patience and hard work can help, I am ruled by fears and needs.

I don't know how to function any more. All of my hobbies and interests now seem dull. Life just seems hopeless. I can deal with a lot of pain, but this is SO RAW. 

I'm hoping someone (mostly men in my situation) can offer some tips on how to get through the initial aftermath of this and stay sane.

Thanks for reading.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

What have you done to confirm the affair is in fact over?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Why would you name your avatar after the world's smallest antelope? Self esteem issues?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Who was this guy... a co-worker? If so, are they still working together?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

karole said:


> What have you done to confirm the affair is in fact over?


This is important.

Also, how did you discover the affair?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Duiker said:


> We have had sex a few times, but always at my initiation. It has seemed like a chore to her. She says right now she just doesn't have any drive at all, and I want to believe her but in light of all of the lies and betrayal part of me wonders if it's because she just can't get those feelings about me. She says she wants her drive to come back and she "wants to want to" but is dealing with the stress on our marriage and the sudden end to her secret life and the things about it that made her feel beautiful and wanted (this kid knew how to push her buttons). She said that she doesn't love him but does have feelings for him as she can't sleep with someone without some kind of emotional attachment.


She's still in love with the OM that is why she rejects you. The little sex you do get after twisting her arm is pity sex just to appease you. She still fantasizes about him and has no attraction to you. She clearly has a libido, just not with YOU. 

Put it this way. If you had the opportunity to bang a hot little 21 year old would you? Or would you have enough love and respect for your marriage to resist the temptation? Problem is she has no respect for you and her lust is for him.

You want to reconcile then go ahead. That's a personal decision. I think you give her far too much credit and I think you decided too quickly to work things out. Lose the gut if you got one and hit the gym hard lifting weights 3-4 times a week. 

Plenty of loyal women out there. Open your mind to that. Don't get stuck under a mountain of resentment. It will destroy your soul.


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

karole - I can't physically confirm it, but I have the password to her phone (I know she can erase stuff). She also checks in with me. I don't trust her, but I do KNOW her well enough to trust my gut. I'm pretty confident she has stuck to her guns as she knows any further contact with him is a deal-breaker. She might be a lying cheater, but she is also very stubborn about following through on things when it matters.

bandit- Duiker is a character from a fantasy book I read once that I really related to. But yes at the moment I do have some self-esteem issues. 

I'm also torn about whether to insist she reveals this guy's name to me. She has given me enough details that I could figure it out if I really wanted to. As much as I fantasize about beating his face in, I'm not really a violent person and he's certainly not worth going to jail for. Mainly I just want the honesty from her...no more secrets.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Ditto what Karole said. What have you done, independent of your wife's assurances, to confirm the affair is in fact over? And what measures do you have in place to continue monitoring her behavior during this critical juncture?
That is the first thing.


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Who was this guy... a co-worker? If so, are they still working together?


They work in the same building until next week, when she transfers to a different facility.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Duiker said:


> They work in the same building until next week, when she transfers to a different facility.


Oh boy...............


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> This is important.
> 
> Also, how did you discover the affair?


She confessed when I presented her with all of the anecdotal evidence. In particular her holding me at arm's length emotionally for months.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

So sorry you're here .


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Duiker said:


> karole - I can't physically confirm it, but I have the password to her phone (I know she can erase stuff). She also checks in with me. I don't trust her, but I do KNOW her well enough to trust my gut. I'm pretty confident she has stuck to her guns as she knows any further contact with him is a deal-breaker. She might be a lying cheater, but she is also very stubborn about following through on things when it matters.
> 
> bandit- Duiker is a character from a fantasy book I read once that I really related to. But yes at the moment I do have some self-esteem issues.
> 
> I'm also torn about whether to insist she reveals this guy's name to me. She has given me enough details that I could figure it out if I really wanted to. As much as I fantasize about beating his face in, I'm not really a violent person and he's certainly not worth going to jail for. Mainly I just want the honesty from her...no more secrets.


What kind of phone does she use? With the right software at your disposal, it won't matter what she has or hasn't erased, because it can be retrieved.

Also... she's not _voluntarily_ given you his name? Not a good sign.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Woman, here.

I kept my sanity after my DDay by quitting drinking (I was self-medicating, and it was like putting out a fire with gasoline) and walking for an hour every day. If I were a runner, I'd have run instead. Also did a small bit of yoga and weights after the walks almost every day. I still walk every day, but not always for as long.

Another tip: Allow yourself to get angry - not to show it to her, but to help you stop mourning the loss of what you thought you had with her, which will help power you through the worst of the grief.

One more thing: Read "The 180." Read it again. Practice it. I wish I had found it sooner than a month after my DDay - it would have saved me from making some mistakes that only hurt me and had no effect on my already gone STBX whatsoever.

Sorry you're here.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Duiker, the first thing you need to do is accept that a woman cheating on you doesn't make you inadequate. That said, what is does show is for one reason or another, she's disloyal, and has lost romantic interest in you. It was waning before her 22 year old boy toy came along. The fact that you love her has nothing to do with it. Its how much she love you that keeps her walking the line. And you see how that went.
Get a grip on what youre dealing with rather than what you wish would happen. Im afraid it ain't good. Her saying, "she doesn't love him but does have feelings for him as she can't sleep with someone without some kind of emotional attachment", is womanese for, "the feelings I have for this kid seem a lot like love to me". I don't have to translate, "I don't know how I feel. I need time to figure it out blah blah blah." You know what that means. 
She has no sex drive, as you expect, for you. If actions speak louder than words, you know what the message is.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Woman, here.
> 
> I kept my sanity after my DDay by quitting drinking (I was self-medicating, and it was like putting out a fire with gasoline) and walking for an hour every day. If I were a runner, I'd have run instead. Also did a small bit of yoga and weights after the walks almost every day. I still walk every day, but not always for as long.
> 
> ...


I continue to be in awe of the "no drinking" part! <3


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

I believe that she still loves me. Some people will say that if she loved me she wouldn't have done this to me in the first place. I don't agree with that.

People do screwed up things to each other. While there are no excuses for this kind of betrayal, there are factors that made it easier for it to happen. I am certainly not without blame with respect to that.

After a week and a half when I finally gave her my letter, she told me that despite her own confusion regarding her feelings she knows that if she let me get away she will regret it. She also acknowledges, by her own admission, that anything with this other guy is a dead-end as he has no prospects and probably never will. It was about her being selfish and forsaking my trust and feelings to feel good about herself (she is overweight, which never bothered me but drove her crazy).


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Sounds to me like this OM is a wannabe player and used your WW for some cougar practice. Most 22 year old guys don't go after women 15 years their senior for a long term commitment.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Duiker said:


> I believe that she still loves me. Some people will say that if she loved me she wouldn't have done this to me in the first place. I don't agree with that.
> 
> People do screwed up things to each other. While there are no excuses for this kind of betrayal, there are factors that made it easier for it to happen. I am certainly not without blame with respect to that.
> 
> After a week and a half when I finally gave her my letter, she told me that despite her own confusion regarding her feelings she knows that if she let me get away she will regret it. She also acknowledges, by her own admission, that anything with this other guy is a dead-end as he has no prospects and probably never will. It was about her being selfish and forsaking my trust and feelings to feel good about herself (she is overweight, which never bothered me but drove her crazy).


It sounds to me like your relationship can be saved, but don't expect an overnight fix. Expect lots of two steps forward and one step back moments, lots of pain on both sides. She really needs to come clean with exactly who this guy is, and if he's married or not (I'm thinking not since he is only 22?)


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Duiker said:


> I'm also torn about whether to insist she reveals this guy's name to me.


Well, like a lot of BS's you've made your share of mistakes in handling this. To include:

You've attempted R to quickly. You needed time to process your feelings and she needed time to have a sense of what it's like to loose her husband for cheating on him. 

Under no circumstances, should you have accepted her not telling you who he is. That is an absolute. She is protecting him instead of working to help you heal. But, you can easily correct that. When you find out, expose him to his wife or SO. If she won't tell you, head straight to an attorney and start the divorce process.

What consequences have you given her? You need to expose her to family and friends, accept nothing less than complete transparency, and most importantly - she needs to demonstrate remorse every day. Not being enthusiastic about sex, along with not telling you who he is; is the opposite of demonstrating remorse.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> She might be a lying cheater, but she is also very stubborn about following through on things when it matters.


Except, apparently, marriage vows.

Not saying you're wrong, but I do not see any evidence of you blowing up their affair. This went on for months. She was discovered. She did not (or he did not) end it and then later discovered after it was already over. 

I also don't see where she suffered any consequences as a result of her infidelity. You simply gave an ultimatum. 



> I've accepted the fact that it happened, but I can't help but feel that my wife will never have that sense of excitement with me that she had with her AP.
> 
> I'm also perturbed by the moments of tenderness they had. I worry that she will never see me again as someone she can share that with or feel the drive she once had for intimacy with me.
> 
> We have had sex a few times, but always at my initiation. It has seemed like a chore to her. She says right now she just doesn't have any drive at all, and I want to believe her but in light of all of the lies and betrayal part of me wonders if it's because she just can't get those feelings about me. She says she wants her drive to come back and she "wants to want to" but is dealing with the stress on our marriage and the sudden end to her secret life and the things about it that made her feel beautiful and wanted (this kid knew how to push her buttons). She said that she doesn't love him but does have feelings for him as she can't sleep with someone without some kind of emotional attachment.


Just my opinion, but sex with you is a "chore" to her right now for probably several reasons....

* She's still banging the OM.

* She is still "in love" with and thinking of the OM, and is allowing herself time to "grieve" this "loss". Because you're allowing it. She does NOT have to focus her attention on keeping you, because you allowed her back easily (or so it appears), and have already, in her mind, solidified her security in the marriage. 

* She is losing attraction for you as a result of your inaction and just accepting her back after she completely disrespected you and your marriage. 

* You are initiating sex with her. This tells her that despite the horrible thing she did (or is still doing) that your self esteem and self respect is so low that you are beneath her. As a result, you lose more attractiveness points with her.


Were it me, I would STOP working on staying together, and instead make her work to earn me back. There's a difference. And when she's apparently so comfortable that she can begrudgingly offer up pity sex (to someone she wronged and should be jumping through hoops to please), and use some bullchit excuse that "she just doesn't have any drive at all" to try to fend you off (and feels safe in doing so), instead of screwing you like her freedom depended on it, that tells me you've been far to easy on her and she is FAR too secure right now.

Turn the tables on her, and turn her on her head. Tell her you have not seen and real effort from her to make this right with you, and as a result, you are leaving her. Then do it. 

She has no sex drive with you because she does not respect you. Get her respect. Stand up for yourself, show her this will not be tolerated, and kick her to the curb. Only after she has suffered consequences for her actions and the hurt she caused you, and sees that you are a man who respects himself and will stand up for himself will she then view you as not only more attractive, but also someone who she should not ever attempt to betray again.

Your post seems filled with insecurity. An insecure male breeds disdain from women.

It's ok to feel hurt by what she's caused and let her see that. It's okay to feel insecure about HER and her worthiness as a life mate, and let her see that. It is NOT okay or advisable to allow her to see in any way shape or form right now that you are insecure about YOURSELF. Yet your words and actions are telling her exactly that. And you wonder why she won't initiate with you?

Hope that's not too brutal, as you are the victim here and it is not my intent to make you suffer more. It is my intent to have you make HER suffer more (consequences for her actions) and make HER do the work to EARN you back.

Do those things, and my bet is she'll be screwing you like her freedom did depend on it.

First make sure the affair is DEAD. VAR's in her car and in the house when you're not there. Find out if she's still contacting him, and go from there.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She has checked out of the marriage Duiker. The boytoy was most likely an exit affair that went deeper than she thought it would. She is not in love with him, she is infatuated with him. Her brain chemicals are pumping like Texas oil wells right now. She is getting a high off him. He's not better than you, he's just not you... and she was desiring someone new and exciting. 

First off, find out if the affair is still going on. If it is, all that money you are spending on couples counseling is going down the toilet. Better to take that money and pay a lawyer his/her retention and get the D ball rolling. 

Second, go see a divorce lawyer (do not tell her) and find out what your rights are in a divorce. You don't necessarily need to file yet, but get educated. See where you stand legally. 

Third, stop funneling your money into a joint account if you and her share one. Open up a new one in your name only and have your pay go there, this way she has no access to your money in order to fund her affair. 

Fourth, if you have not done so, expose her affair to her family and yours. Do not expose at the workplace yet. If you plan to divorce her you want her to have that job so that you don't get hit up for spousal maintenance or alimony. 

Fifth, get some exercise, eat right and start taking care of yourself. Hit the gym and lift weights, walk, jog, do calisthenics... it will get you healthier and make you feel better. You will less likely lapse into depression if you work out. 

Sixth: stop having sex with her and start the 180 in earnest. It will help you become emotionally independent and detached in case this goes south. 

Sorry you are her my friend, but know you are not alone, Many here have felt your pain and we know what you are going through. The most important thing is to take your time to make your decision. You have time on your side...she does not. Look at the situation from every angle and pay attention to what she does, not what she says. Actions tell the truth of how she is feeling. Don't listen to her words.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*The 180.*

1, Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

*32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.* (<<<Big one!!!!)

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, sorry for the spot you are in. I have been through this as well and know that it sucks.

First, understand that you are not alone.
Second- you need to focus on yourself right now. Don't rush to R. If you are not already doing so, start working out. It really does help.
Be careful with alcohol, trust me- I didn't find any help or answers by hitting the bottle hard.
Get tested for STDs. You can bank that they did not use condoms. Take care of your health and insist both of you get checked.
Talk to a lawyer- at least know your options.
Read up on the 180.
Get some counseling.

Donny 64 nailed his first statement above. That is exactly what I would have written regarding her stubborn follow through.

Your wife is a skilled liar, she got away with this for 4 months. Don't assume that it is over now with them in the same building and you not knowing for sure who he is.
Do not be violent with him, but be vigilant instead. 

Take your time to decide what you need to heal. Do not rush to rug sweep. That will bite you in the back side.

Good Luck
WD


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

If the goal is to bust up the affair (and there's a really good chance it's still on), you need to expose this to the powers that be at the workplace. You're just spinning your wheels right now with them still working together.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Sorry, man. It sucks and there is no way around it. The pain will lesson on its own with time, but it is too fresh for you to not feel it. Talk to your friends, priest, family, IC, etc. to get the support you need and go workout a lot. One thing I did that really helped was take a vacation back home to visit family/friends and clear my head. It is a lot easier to think about what you really want and what the best path is for you when the WW isn't around. I'm a month out from D-Day and it still sucks, but is getting easier to deal with.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Regarding his name, yes, you must insist on her telling you. If/when she is remorseful, she will tell you. Until then, there is no reconciliation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

3putt said:


> Sounds to me like this OM is a wannabe player and used your WW for some cougar practice. Most 22 year old guys don't go after women 15 years their senior for a long term commitment.


Well... I don't know about that. When I was in my mid-20s I briefly dated a woman who was 51.

Why? Because I thought she was the most beautiful woman I had ever met. She was just very pretty and vivacious.

But in the case of Duiker's wife she could or *should*, have closed him down by waving her wedding ring at him and pointing him in the direction of a young, single woman in accounts.

By the way, Duiker, ask you wife what she proposes to do to help you heal from her cheating.

How she will help stop you feeling inadequate.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Well... I don't know about that. When I was in my mid-20s I briefly dated a woman who was 51.
> 
> Why? Because I thought she was the most beautiful woman I had ever met. She was just very pretty and vivacious.
> 
> ...


You'll note 3putt's use of the word "most".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> You'll note 3putt's use of the word "most".


Yes, that's true.

But my main point- put badly, I think- was that if a kid of 22 approaches a married woman 15+ years his senior, nothing is supposed to happen, other than she lets him down gently, slaps him, or she tries to get him into dating a single woman.

IMO she is responsible for 90% of this situation.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Duiker said:


> I believe that she still loves me. Some people will say that if she loved me she wouldn't have done this to me in the first place. I don't agree with that.


I didn't say she didn't love you. She's just lost romantic interest in you. When women say they don't know how they feel or the old, "I love you but", it means the romantic feeling is way below her wetting her pants when you're around. Take my word for it Dawg, when you initiate, she's thinking, "damn, that crack in the ceiling has got bigger since last time". And yes, the boy toy is likely still in the picture.
If you doubt anything here, my advise is to talk to a female friend that's independent but straight forward.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> Sorry, man. It sucks and there is no way around it. The pain will lesson on its own with time, but it is too fresh for you to not feel it. Talk to your friends, priest, family, IC, etc. to get the support you need and go workout a lot. One thing I did that really helped was take a vacation back home to visit family/friends and clear my head.* It is a lot easier to think about what you really want and what the best path is for you when the WW isn't around. *I'm a month out from D-Day and it still sucks, but is getting easier to deal with.


So true. I moved out on Monday, but was in the house today when picking up the kids, and triggered big time (and he wasn't even there). When I'm completely away, I'm doing fine 85% of the time.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Reconciliation is tough. It only works if you're ready to pull the plug at any time and she knows that you are giving her a second chance. If she thinks that she's making the rules or that you're lucky she's staying with you then it's over. If she blames you for her cheating then it's over. If she thinks she has a tough choice to make then it's over. At least it's over until she changes her mind on it. The bottom line is that you deserve someone who feels lucky to have you and anything less is not worth your time. If you know this and if she learns this then you have a chance at reconciliation.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

I never understood why or how someone can make the decision to reconcile immediately after discovering an affair. You need perspective and time to allow yourself to feel angry, numb, indignation, sadness, time to really understand, absorb and process it all.

Her not being forthcoming with information about her lover and details of the affair is totally a bad sign. She still has feelings for him, strong feelings and those won't be quick to fade away. And while she's pining away for him she'll be in no position to work on the marriage, to be an active participant in your marriage's recovery, and she won't be able to provide you with what you require to help you and the marriage heal from her affair. None of that will be possible while she's still longing for him and thinking of the affair fondly.

Stop sleeping with her. How can you sleep with someone who's not into it? That is just wrong:frown2:. Have more respect for yourself. You deserve to be with someone who's excited about you and is attracted to you.

At the moment she is secure in the knowledge that her marriage and her lover are both available to her. She has to see the disintegration of your marriage as a real possibility and fear losing you otherwise she won't be motivated to make the effort and reflect on her behaviour.

Marriage counselling is about working on issues in the marriage. The marriage is not the issue here, she is. She needs to see a counsellor and work on herself and understand how and why she engaged in the affair.

Your wife needs to experience remorse and consequences for her choices. You taking her back so readily was a mistake, it further diminished whatever little attraction and respect she had for you.

Have her move out of the house, see a lawyer and tell her you're filing for divorce (this process can always be stopped if you actually see real progress form her but it's a good idea to have it started). Limit your contact with her to legal, household and financial matters, and children if you have any. If you haven't already, reveal the affair to your close friends and family. The shock might help her see and realize what she has done.

In the meantime work on yourself, see a counsellor, exercise, socialize and take care of yourself.


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## LisaKane (Jun 26, 2015)

What do you want to happen? Is it because of ego or because you really love a woman who screwed someone else? I know only one thing, if I was the woman and a man let me get away with this, I would think he was a doormat and I would not be attracted to him ever again.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Her not giving you his name is the PRIME indicator that it is NOT over. What was going on in the 6 months leading up to her affair...in the 12 months?? When did you notice her attitude beginning to change?? There were signs in the time leading up to the beginning of your suspicions...Have you began cracking open your memory -to back track your way through this? 

Until she tells you EVERYTHING (that you want to know)...you are wasting your time. 

The 180 is the only way to go. Until you are prepared to drop her like a bad habit -at the first sign of disloyalty -she will continue doing what she wants. 

As for her treating sex like a chore....if she really was in R with you -she would be banging your brains out at every opportunity. It's called hysterical bonding. Look into it. 

I am very sorry you are here. I can truly feel your pain and anguish in your words. You need to understand -THIS WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. ll the pain you are feeling is the result of HER choices -not yours.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You need to build your self-esteem. Your wife will repeat having affairs with younger men as she likes the attention and the chase. I had a classmate in college who preferred to have affairs with married women because of non-commitment. He was in those relationships for sex only. Your wife knows that she is just a piece of free tail to her lover. You will get hurt over and over again.

See a psychologist so that you can set your mind straight.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Roselyn said:


> I had a classmate in college who preferred to have affairs with married women because of non-commitment.


And less costly with her likely picking up the tab (or worse). However, he should bear in mind its not about the boy toy. There are plenty like him willing to service a disloyal married woman. He need to take a hard look at the woman he lays down with and get his mind off of freaking out on the kid.


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

OP, very sorry for your situation. Only one thing to do for you, change yourself. 'Insurmountable' ... Can I have some sex please WW? Stop this doormat behaviour and start making decisions that benefit you. That make you sane and happy again. Your WW it seems, is still with her head in the clouds, shows no respect for you, isn't remorseful, does not see, recognize, let alone respect your insurmountable pain. Is this the relationship you want to be in?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

LisaKane said:


> What do you want to happen? Is it because of ego or because you really love a woman who screwed someone else? I know only one thing, if I was the woman and a man let me get away with this, I would think he was a doormat and I would not be attracted to him ever again.


Great post and I absolutely agree.

I do believe R is possible, but not by rug sweeping.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

wrenn said:


> Do you fantasize about beating your wife's face in too?
> 
> Because she's really the one at fault here, not him. She's the one who broke the marital vows, deceived you and put you at risk for STDs as well as prolonged emotional anguish. The other guy could be anyone, he could have been told anything about you, even that the two of you are no longer together.
> 
> He's not the problem, he's a symptom.


Sorry, but if he knew she was married and pursued her anyway, then he's 50% of _that_ problem. And accordingly, he deserves to have his ass whipped thoroughly.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

wrenn said:


> Do you fantasize about beating your wife's face in too?
> 
> Because she's really the one at fault here, not him. She's the one who broke the marital vows, deceived you and put you at risk for STDs as well as prolonged emotional anguish. The other guy could be anyone, he could have been told anything about you, even that the two of you are no longer together.
> 
> He's not the problem, he's a symptom.





3putt said:


> Sorry, but if he knew she was married and pursued her anyway, then he's 50% of _that_ problem. And accordingly, he deserves to have his ass whipped thoroughly.


There are two separate issues here...

1) OP's WW cheated on him. She owns 100% of that.

2) OM f*cked OP's WW. He owns 100% of that.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Duiker said:


> It was about her being selfish and forsaking my trust and feelings to feel good about herself (she is overweight, which never bothered me but drove her crazy).


IOW it was an *ego trip*. She did not allow herself to feel validated through you because you are her husband, but a third party would be impartial and verify her desirability. Totally screwed up thinking. You should insist she seek IC (individual counseling) as a deal breaker, otherwise there may be a repeat performance in the future.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Duiker said:


> I'm also torn about whether to insist she reveals this guy's name to me. She has given me enough details that I could figure it out if I really wanted to. As much as I fantasize about beating his face in, I'm not really a violent person and he's certainly not worth going to jail for. Mainly I just want the honesty from her...no more secrets.


She ABSOLUTELY has to tell you who he is. Because you have to be able to protect your family from him if he ever shows up again (doubtful - he just wanted some easy tail) and because you have to let his wife or family know what he's done to hopefully stop him from continuing.

Not to mention you can't reconcile if she won't tell you the whole truth.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> Sorry, but if he knew she was married and pursued her anyway, then he's 50% of _that_ problem. And accordingly, he deserves to have his ass whipped thoroughly.


The problem is there are a whole lot of "50% of the problem" as you perceive it out there willing to give a willing cowgirl a ride. But when you open that door you better be man enough to close it. Just because your wife cheats doesn't mean you can whip tht azz of every man she cheats with. You really need to look at your cowgirl that's willing to let another cowboy in the saddle.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> The problem is there are a whole lot of "50% of the problem" as you perceive it out there willing to give a willing cowgirl ride. But when you open that door you better be man enough to close it. *Just because your wife cheats doesn't mean you can whip to azz of every man she cheats with. * You really need to look at your cowgirl that's willing to let another cowboy in the saddle.


Yes, yes it does. 

Obviously I couldn't kick her ass, so I dealt with her by kicking her ass to the curb.

Everyone was dealt with properly.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

By not telling you his name, she is still choosing the OM over you.

She is still making you her second choice.

She is protecting her A and the OM over you.

You should not be her second choice, you should have been her only choice.

Stop the MC, do the 180 and file for D. You will find out if she wakes up before the D is final.

Is she pregnant and not stds? Why did she not quit her job right away?

Do you have kids? How would she like it if you had an A?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> Obviously I couldn't kick her ass, so I dealt with her by kicking her ass to the curb.


 3putt, you may be one tough SOB. But now you don't have to worry about a "R" your putting all the work into, whether she really remorseful, you got the whole story, her now not into sex with you and all that crap. Scrap and replace is oftentimes a lot cleaner.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> She is protecting her A and the OM over you.


I know what you mean but I can't help thinking, "She is protecting her Azz and the OM over you.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Duiker said:


> .
> 
> After a week and a half when I finally gave her my letter, .


So..she cheated on you and you responded with a letter?
If I were her, I wouldn't even bother to read it.
Sending a letter makes it sound like you were afraid to look at her straight in the eye..as if you did something wrong, not her. 
Why would you hide behind a letter?

Plus, she had all the drive to open her legs for OM ..but now ..suddenly she doesn't have that drive anymore?? 
Who's buys that? 
It screams "I just don't want to do it with YOU". 

Sorry OP, even from a computer screen, we can tell how little she thinks of you.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

It amazes me how some guys get the reality of the situation straightforward from the ladies and they still come up with, "but its not like that with her".


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> It amazes me how some guys get the reality of the situation straightforward from the ladies and they still come up with, "but its not like that with her".


The biggest mistake they all make is thinking their situation is somehow different than all the others that have wound up here. 

How many times have we seen it actually turn out to be different?

None that I can recall.


ETA: Check that; PhillyGuy's case did apparently turn out to be different. So there's one.


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks for all the feedback.

I had an argument on Friday night. I told her she needed to tell me the guy's name. She said no, because she didn't want to and even the MC said it doesn't matter.

I told her that I honestly don't give a **** who he is, but that without her honesty there is no way we can even start to build trust. I told her that I have boundaries and that I will not tolerate lies and secrets in my marriage.

She got angry and didn't speak to me the rest of the evening.

I took this opportunity to read up on the 180. It terrified me at first. I thought that all I would do is drive her away.

Then I thought about the last two weeks. I have been utterly consumed by my pain and grief. I have been a fool. I thought that if she saw how much pain I am in, she would feel truly remorseful and give 100% to making it up to me, and that I would start feeling better about myself and my life. How stupid is that? It's like expecting someone that just brutally mugged you to give you a ride to the hospital.

So I read the 180 again, and then again. Against all of my fear and trepidation, it dawned on me that nothing will make this pain go away unless I take control of my life. Nothing she will do will take it away.

I made a resolution. I will prepare myself physically and mentally to live my life without her. I will embrace the 180. I will become the person I want to be and live a life based on principals that I believe in. I will channel my pain and anguish into achieving my goals, no matter how hard it is.

She can either get on board or **** off.

The next day we went to my daughter's big basketball tournament together. I kept to myself, but remained pleasant. I didn't attempt to be affectionate with her, but didn't treat her like I was angry or vindictive. I acted like everything was completely normal and we were going to have a good day supporting our daughter's games.

During the morning she didn't pay much attention to me. As the day progressed though, she started talking to me more. I chuckled at her little jokes but I didn't go out of my way to make conversation with her. At one point she leaned over for a kiss, which I returned without hugging her or prolonging it. I treated it like it was just an ordinary thing. 

Later in the day I noticed she was making it a point to stand next to me at the games so that the skin on her arm was touching mine. She then started leaning on me. I didn't shy away but I didn't encourage it either, just acted nonchalantly about it.

In truth, my pain was gnawing at my nerves non-stop. In response I started repeating the mantra in my head: "Embrace the 180". It worked. Just thinking those thoughts quieted my nerves and let me refocus on being there for my daughter.

I can't say that I'm not afraid of losing my wife and the family life I have grown accustomed to. But I want to replace that fear with the self-respect, confidence and trust that I deserve.

This isn't going to be easy, but I think it's my only option if I am ever going to be free of this pain - with or without her.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Duiker said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> I had an argument on Friday night. I told her she needed to tell me the guy's name. She said no, because she didn't want to and even the MC said it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Good. Now make sure that she knows that, until she's (a) given you the guy's name, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc, (b) has sent a no contact letter to him (which YOU will both proofread and actually send yourself), and (c) made efforts toward securing a new job (because moving to a new building isn't _quite_ enough... LOL), you'll be proceeding w/ divorce. Because you're right... you will not be able to rebuild the trust necessary to sustain your marriage in light of her betrayal w/ all of these secrets in your marriage, especially since a refusal on her part to do ALL of these things more or less means that she's protecting him.

Also, your therapist is a f*cking moron.



Duiker said:


> I took this opportunity to read up on the 180. It terrified me at first. I thought that all I would do is drive her away.
> 
> Then I thought about the last two weeks. I have been utterly consumed by my pain and grief. I have been a fool. I thought that if she saw how much pain I am in, she would feel truly remorseful and give 100% to making it up to me, and that I would start feeling better about myself and my life. How stupid is that? It's like expecting someone that just brutally mugged you to give you a ride to the hospital.
> 
> ...


I realize that you're new to the 180, but all of this extraneous interaction w/ her is off limits, especially giving her or returning any sort of physical affection. She needs to know that you WILL walk unless your conditions for reconciliation are met, and all you're showing her now is that, while you're hurt, you're slowly trying to get back to normal.

And until she relents on sharing OM's identity w/ you, all you're doing is wasting time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Good. Now make sure that she knows that, until she's (a) given you the guy's name, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc, (b) has sent a no contact letter to him (which YOU will both proofread and actually send yourself), and (c) made efforts toward securing a new job (because moving to a new building isn't _quite_ enough... LOL), you'll be proceeding w/ divorce.


I would tell her that today. And I would add that tomorrow morning, Monday, you look her in the eyes and ask her again for his name. When she refuses, just nod your head like you expected her to say no, turn around, and leave. When you come home from work, hand her the business card of the lawyer you met with that day and inform her you will be proceeding with the divorce.

She has to SEE IT. Just as YOU know you are weak, SHE knows you're weak. That's one of the things that attracted her to the OM - he was strong enough to take what he wanted. If you don't show her your strength, you will never truly be reconciled and your marriage will suck.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For R to have any chance of success, she has to do whatever it is you need in order to deal with this. And she's not doing that -- which says to me she isn't over it and hopes you won't notice. 

Right now she sees you as someone who is easily manipulated. A doormat. Change that. Today. Otherwise, you are wasting your time and your R will fail.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Duiker said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> I had an argument on Friday night. I told her she needed to tell me the guy's name. She said no, because she didn't want to and even the MC said it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


That's the ticket OP

The only way it works....except,do not seek or accept any affection from her (not in the 180 code) 

Good for you......If she doesn't respond in a positive truthful way

You know your path Stay on it until it leads you to where you need and want to be....With or without her and your dignity and self respect intact.

Your children will learn from this Teach them this lesson in life
That's what fathers do.

55


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Gotta be a touch colder.
Don't kiss her back.
If she goes to lean on you or touch you move a half step off.
Her little jokes should get only a blank stare.
Be there, but be there as if you were alone.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

MC is useless at this point. I agree that you are being weak, and manipulated as well. She does nothing to build back your trust, and you kiss her? Act like nothing happened? You just accept that her lover's identity remain secret? Get strong, she knows your words are worthless, so now you have to show ACTION! Until then, prepare for pain and misery to go on and on.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

You would be insane to go back to that MC. That person has no clue about infidelity or how to recover from it. If your WW asks you to go back to her, just tell her that you refuse to see a "MC" that doesn't believe that a BS has every right to know who his WW had sex with, and any other info that would be helpful to the BS for recovery. 

Then flat out walk away and don't argue about it with her. If she tries, just say, "You know how I feel about this, and until I have that info we have nothing further to discuss," then walk away again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Duiker said:


> She said that she doesn't love him but does have feelings for him as she can't sleep with someone without some kind of emotional attachment.


So...

She can sleep with Kid Creol but not you. What does that tell you?

She doesn't love you any more pal. Do something about THAT.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Her reaction to the 180 was pleasant surprise that you're going to leave her alone from now on. BIGGEST mistake 180'ers make is thinking the "WHEW, he's finally going to leave me alone" change in her is a "Oh, boy, the guy I don't really like any more is changing. I'd better jump him while I have the chance".

She doesn't like you. The 180 WILL NOT CHANGE THAT. It is for you and you alone.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Duiker said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> I had an argument on Friday night. I told her she needed to tell me the guy's name. She said no, because she didn't want to and even the MC said it doesn't matter.
> 
> ...



Thats how its done...

Sencerely
the guy 
with the cheating wife


In my case when my old lady did tell me the name of one of the OM's.....it was a "good friend" of mine!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Duiker said:


> I can't say that I'm not afraid of losing my wife and the family life I have grown accustomed to. But I want to replace that fear with the self-respect, confidence and trust that I deserve.
> 
> This isn't going to be easy, but I think it's my only option if I am ever going to be free of this pain - with or without her.


Kudos for seeing this logic and yes it's still very difficult. Being afraid is normal but if it rules our actions then life can be miserable. That's where being brave and having principles, and self worth come to the rescue. Also acceptance that you control your own actions and one else's is important to remind yourself of during times like this.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Way to go OP! 

You have strength of will, strength that will see you through this time of pain. Strength that demonstrates to you that the pain is not insurmountable. The pain doesn't get to be in charge...of your life, you marriage or you. 

I believe, what you are beginning to see is that your pain is really fear...fear of loss. You are afraid of losing you wife. Losing your marriage. Fear is good...as long as it provides focus. From what I have read thus far...that is what you are doing. Keep it up

Whoever has the will to destroy a thing, controls that thing. By being willing to walk away from her, you are demonstrating your control over the situation. She will either meet your demands for disclosure or not. She will either meet your demands for R or she will not. By having one foot out the door (which the 180 gives the appearance of even though that is not the intent)....she can clearly understand what your response will be to any "no" answer to your demands. 

Stay the course. Work on you. Believe in your strength, believe in your value. The moment you waver, that second she sees it or feels it...its over. Be strong.

You will overcome this. There is no other option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Duiker the 180 is NOT a tool to get your WW to "find religion" and become the woman you want her to be. The 180 is a protocol for emotional detachment with the goal of helping you conquer your fears and give you the strength to move on with your life, with or without her. Your actions betray your assertion that you are doing the 180.

I agree with Turnera that your wife sees you as weak and that she can set the rules for the rug sweeping she calls reconciliation. Serving her with divorce papers will show her that you are truly serious about your boundaries. The divorce process can be stopped at any time of your choosing. If she truly wants to avoid ending the marriage, then its on her to do what you need in order to want to stay in the marriage.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi OP, my BIL started the 180 about a year ago, after 2 years of trying to nice his wife back. (She was (still is?) having an affair with a co-worker.) After a while, it's like his head cleared and not only was he detaching from her but from the situation and could honestly look at everything objectively. I can tell he has grown so much in the past year just in talking with him. When this all started about 3 years ago, the first two years were all about how to get her back. Now the conversations are about, "I'm done and moving on. If she wants this marriage she has to go to therapy and do the heavy lifting."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I agree with soccer mom. Clear your head.

You might find your WW is not all that worth keeping.

She placed her Goddamned crotch above her marriage and well.being of her daughter.

Is she so stupid to believe you can't do better than a low life cheater?

If she doesn't offer everything you want up on a silver platter, you should file. Continue the 180. Cut her out and go dark.

Pack her a bag and drop her off at the boy's house. Probably still lives with his mom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

You need to gently push her away. She's thinking she's got you under her thumb. 

Try something like this:

"Wife, one way or another I will recover from your betrayal of me and our family. If you want me to even consider R with you, you MUST comply with everything I need. Option 2 is kicking your unfaithful @ss to the curb. Understand we will not even be friends. Bad news, I can't promise I'll do more than consider R. I may not have it in me to recover and stay together. "

She still has an entitled attitude. 

Your MC knows jack about R from infidelity. He's on your WWs side. You need to tell him off next session and not go back if he doesn't change his tune. 

Be strong, do not compromise your principles or needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doyle (Mar 6, 2013)

Mate as usual here, you're getting the best advice money cant buy.

Congrats on starting the 180, not quite right yet though work harder on it.

listen to the guys here ( have to say it again, take special note of what Gus says).

You want that name not because of who it is but because of what her not giving it symbolises.

She changes job because it shows she's willing to do it to keep you
as well as distancing from the other guy. 
Keep taking note of what the guys here tell you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Duiker, please read the following from *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559*



> *Just Let Them Go*
> 
> The end result?
> 
> ...


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Duiker said:


> Then I thought about the last two weeks. I have been utterly consumed by my pain and grief. I have been a fool. I thought that if she saw how much pain I am in, she would feel truly remorseful and give 100% to making it up to me, and that I would start feeling better about myself and my life. How stupid is that? It's like expecting someone that just brutally mugged you to give you a ride to the hospital.


Where in the hell did you get your training in handling a relationship with women? From Ms. magazine. You're dealing with a woman who is suppose to be a mate, not your mother to powder your behind. When a woman has lost romantic interest in you, they don't feel remorseful. With the 180, you now have experienced a valuable first lesson in how women respond to you being a challenge, a little bit of a mystery, and unavailable (you know the "bad boy" they want to be with) as opposed the the needy chump you were, who believes he's got to always please his queen and be standing with his hat in his hand hoping to get laid. Forget this lesson at your own peril Duiker. 
Your homework for chapter two is to tell her no name is a deal breaker and give her 24 hours to get the name or get gone. Extra credit, tell her to the get to gym and lose some of the weight she's picked up; its unhealthy and you expect her to do something about it. (if you think this it too harsh, remember she was out doing her boy toy while you were doing without.)


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Hi OP, my BIL started the 180 about a year ago, after 2 years of trying to nice his wife back. (She was (still is?) having an affair with a co-worker.) After a while, it's like his head cleared and not only was he detaching from her but from the situation and could honestly look at everything objectively. I can tell he has grown so much in the past year just in talking with him. When this all started about 3 years ago, the first two years were all about how to get her back. Now the conversations are about, "I'm done and moving on. If she wants this marriage she has to go to therapy and do the heavy lifting."


After 3 years you'd think the conversations would sound a bit more like...

"I'm done and moving on. Period."

Poor guy. I hope he's able to put all of her bullsh*t behind him soon.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> After 3 years you'd think the conversations would sound a bit more like...
> 
> "I'm done and moving on. Period."
> 
> Poor guy. I hope he's able to put all of her bullsh*t behind him soon.


Yes, I agree. I think he's still thinking of the kids. He told my husband that if the girls ever ask what happened, he wants to be able to tell them he tried everything himself and gave their mom chances to keep the family together.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I agree. I think he's still thinking of the kids. He told my husband that if the girls ever ask what happened, he wants to be able to tell them he tried everything himself and gave their mom chances to keep the family together.


Doing it for the kids is like a trump card because it seems too noble a cause for anyone to challenge. But it's often self deception and OP needs to challenge himself on this. Do the girls really need to see one parent cheating on the other or the other parent not standing up to it? No, they need an example of protecting boundaries when they're crossed more than a martyr. I remember thinking the same way as OP when my first marriage was going up in flames but it was self deception. There is no substitute for strength and I think OP is figuring that out.


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## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

Hey.

I am sorry you are here. Your situation is terribly similar to mine as my STBX also cheated on me with a younger man as well. I truly sympathize with what you are going through.

I encourage you to read the timelines and stories of many before you. I know that some of these 30+ pages are daunting but the experience within each is invaluable.

Get clarity first. You "wife" can wait. With a clear mind and support, you can evaluate and see the truth of your situation. And with that clarity in mind, your actions will follow.

I hope and wish you the best.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Truly sorry you are here. Sounds like you gave a soft confront and basically are running to reconciliation with no consquences of whatsoever.

Seems like you are trying to rugsweep this.

Unfortunately and i can honestly tell you this unless you impose real time consquences nothing will change and you run the real risk that this will happen again.

Your wife needs to come forward with his name, job, and where he lives.

She needs to be transparent in her whereabouts and with all paswords to emails, phones devices.

Be aware that your wife might have a burner phone.

Above all trust nothing she says.

As for her so called lost desire for sex, sorry to say thats nonsense. She was in an affair wasn't she? Unfortunately and as hard as this is to swallow she has lost desire for you.

Unless your wife truly understands that any further indescrestion will result in immediate life changing consequences for her than nothing will ever change.

I am truly sorry you are here and i feel your pain.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ok, I wasn't going to post, but I didn't see if anyone told you these things.

1. You know nothing about this new woman.
2. She knows how to present the old woman to you to keep you blind.
3. You actually know nothing of the affair but what she has told you. BUT,, refer to #2.
4. In mostly EVERY case of a truly remorseful, there was a lot of hysterical bonding sex. So, refer to#2.
5. You are being managed. So refer to #2.
6. She has to give you a COMPLETE timeline of the affair, and ALL info that you want so you can confirm. BUT, refer to #2
7. Your wife killed you marriage, so you are building a new one. BUT, refer to #2, because she is trying to build it in the same mold as the old, where you worshiped her.
8. YOU need to read and use the Standard Evidence Thread YESTERDAY.
9. There is too much touching in your version of the 180.

I'm not saying these things to upset you, but to show you where you really are.
You say she is changing location. I bet he has bragged, and people have lost respect for her. It has nothing to do with your feeling my man. Refer to #2.
she is trying her best to rug sweep this, and you are letting her.

I'm sorry you have to find yourself here, but at least you will get the REAL advice you need.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Doing it for the kids is like a trump card because it seems too noble a cause for anyone to challenge. But it's often self deception and OP needs to challenge himself on this. Do the girls really need to see one parent cheating on the other or the other parent not standing up to it? No, they need an example of protecting boundaries when they're crossed more than a martyr. I remember thinking the same way as OP when my first marriage was going up in flames but it was self deception. There is no substitute for strength and I think OP is figuring that out.


Exactly. Most of the time "doing it for the kids" is a load of crap, or at least a misguided perception of what's best for the kids. Here's a hint. It ain't watch two parents in misery and one or both diddling with outside partners. Here's another hint. From my own perspective as a college instructor, my students from broken homes did as well, before and after graduation as the others.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

It's better for your kids to have come from a broken home rather than to have to live in a broken home.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can you leave work early and check her out as she leaves work? Just to see who she walks out with? What about their lunches?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Good suggestion by chap above if you can swing it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Duiker,

You're heading in the right direction in dealing with her, but you're not quite there yet. I agree with the other posters about showing her affection, either verbally or physically. Don't. You can still be polite; but you must be Mr. Spock, and she is Mr. Spock's room mate. Don't have sex with her and don't sleep in the same bed with her.

I also agree you have to tell her that not naming her affair partner is "not acceptable' to you. But don't threaten or say anything about divorce to her right now. Just start the process. Let her find out when she is served. That should get her attention.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IMO, cheaters have to see their spouse be MAD. Not chest-beating mad but long, simmering anger, incredulity, that their spouse DARED to do something like this. It's the only way they will ever come close to learning from it and/or changing.


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