# Sexpectations in marriage



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)

The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking. What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?

I know this will differ for each person but just curious as to your thoughts. I mean some will say sex once a week is normal while others might saying going to an adults only resort with some nudity might be normal.

A few recent posts like the "sex hating" one got me thinking about what any of us should expect from our marriages related to sex hence the post.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Forget that post, brother. It was discovered that she just hated sex with her husband.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Forget that post, brother. It was discovered that she just hated sex with her husband.


Yeah I know...it just made me wonder about what anyone should REALLY expect from sex in our marriages.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Expect nothing, you will never be disappointed


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I know...it just made me wonder about what anyone should REALLY expect from sex in our marriages.


Honesty, I don’t think you can expect anything from a marriage other than a lifetime of pain.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

There should be an expectation that sex and physical intimacy are an important part of a marriage and that they will continue to be a part of the marriage. It should also be expected that things will sort of ebb and flow at times though. If it doesn't, great, but there are stages in life when things might not be as great as they once were (frequency, quality, variety, whatever). That's normal, but during those stages there should be an expectation that it can be talked about openly and that there is a willingness to work on it (on both sides). And if that means getting into sex therapy, both spouses should do that. 

When I look at social media on my wife's phone I see so many posts by women who have no drive and/or no sex for months or years after having kids, and the majority of the comments are backing them up like it's normal and totally fine. It's not, and it shouldn't be so "normalized".

To an extent, things should stay how they were during the dating phase. Obviously things change and it won't be exactly the same but there is no point putting on a show during the dating phase and then turning into a different person after saying "I do". So to me that includes things like flirting, date nights, compliments, all the small gestures, and yeah - appearances as well. Expectations need to be realistic, though.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

I don't know.. what I do know is I enjoyed sex with my wife.. and now that I'm not having sex with her anymore... it sucks.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Here we go…


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

BTW.. what will suck even more is knowing someone else is having sex with her. 

Hopefully that thought will somehow go away as I grow in this new reality.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Honesty, I don’t think you can expect anything from a marriage other than a lifetime of pain.


Ouch!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> BTW.. what will suck even more is knowing someone else is having sex with her.
> 
> Hopefully that thought will somehow go away as I grow in this new reality.


Dude, stop. Find your nutsack for Christ sake.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

Nice for you.... whats it been? a couple of years since you got your walking papers? Some folks here just got their papers.. the ink isn't even dry yet... and you want balls?

I'm speaking in reality... I just got gut checked here myself. The talk is sex and the expectation.. what do you expect? You got over 2000 posts... and you're prostrating?


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

I'm in a foul mood tonight... you'll have to excuse me.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

HarryBosch said:


> Nice for you.... whats it been? a couple of years since you got your walking papers? Some folks here just got their papers.. the ink isn't even dry yet... and you want balls?
> 
> I'm speaking in reality... I just got gut checked here myself. The talk is sex and the expectation.. what do you expect? You got over 2000 posts... and you're prostrating?


Don’t worry about him. Talking to people like that on here just makes him feel good about himself.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Men can’t have emotions you know, or at least express them. If you do you’re a beta who looks pathetic and better man up, duh. Find your balls, dude.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> Nice for you.... whats it been? a couple of years since you got your walking papers? Some folks here just got their papers.. the ink isn't even dry yet... and you want balls?
> 
> I'm speaking in reality... I just got gut checked here myself. The talk is sex and the expectation.. what do you expect? You got over 2000 posts... and you're prostrating?


Stop blaming yourself. Don’t take advice from a woman pinning for a dude 10 years younger than her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Men can’t have emotions you know, or at least express them. If you do you’re a beta who looks pathetic and better man up, duh. Find your balls, dude.


Clean up the ice cube!!! Feed the 9 pets. Lolol.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Clean up the ice cube!!! Feed the 9 pets. Lolol.


Is it any wonder why she likes weak men?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> I don't know.. what I do know is I enjoyed sex with my wife.. and now that I'm not having sex with her anymore... it sucks.


So your wife doesn’t want you anymore and is not having sex with you, and is leaving you, if I understand it correctly.

Yes that sucks. And yes, she will be having sex with someone else (if she isn’t already), and that also sucks.

So instead of dwelling on what you can’t control , why are you not out finding someone else to have sex with? 
Take the lessons from your situation, work on improving yourself every day and go find someone else.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)
> 
> The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking. What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?
> 
> ...


Haven't been married for a while, but while I reckon sex should be an expectation, it should never be an obligation.

From my sexual partners I would expect that they are into me, enjoy it, and want more of it. I'm happy with baseline frequency of 2-3x a week, doesn't mean I won't do it more or less, depends on arousal, more flirting, teases, suggestiveness = more sex.

I can never do someone who I'm not content is into me, I would go soft actually. If no sexual compatibility, I would move on.

But people get married for all the 'right' reasons, yet sex and attraction isn't considered one of them. It is shallow, superficial, to marry for good sex. And we wonder we have so many sexless marriages now.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> But people get married for all the 'right' reasons, yet sex and attraction isn't considered one of them. It is shallow, superficial, to marry for good sex. And we wonder we have so many sexless marriages now.


Very true.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> Yes indeed. again we go to this empty well.
> In the United States (even Florida) all you can legally expect from marriage is that you share information when you file taxes each April.
> That's it. Anything else you achieve, is a bonus. I got health insurance.


If someone isn't happy, then, to an extreme, they should leave the marriage rather than stay for years and years and years.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

Oh I wasn't in a good place last night. I was genuinely in a pissed off mood.

I do love though how many here who have five plus years on the backside of their woes and comment like it never happened to them. I bet if I went back to the first day you logged in, I'd find many were in the same place I am, and probably felt and posted the same feelings/comments. But I digress..

Finding my balls isn't hard and "Manning up"?... you should try carrying a rifle in Afghanistan.. you feel lucky in the end just to have your balls when you come home. Its the internet.. I know Its also a place where people are going to have **** nights. Dole out the tough love.. I'm sure we can all take it, just realize all of us have different experiences and are in a different place.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Men can’t have emotions you know, or at least express them. If you do you’re a beta who looks pathetic and better man up, duh. Find your balls, dude.


I regularly express my feelings, have my balls and get laid like tile on the regular with my wife.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> Oh I wasn't in a good place last night. I was genuinely in a pissed off mood.
> 
> I do love though how many here who have five plus years on the backside of their woes and comment like it never happened to them. I bet if I went back to the first day you logged in, I'd find many were in the same place I am, and probably felt and posted the same feelings/comments. But I digress..
> 
> Finding my balls isn't hard and "Manning up"?... you should try carrying a rifle in Afghanistan.. you feel lucky in the end just to have your balls when you come home. Its the internet.. I know Its also a place where people are going to have **** nights. Dole out the tough love.. I'm sure we can all take it, just realize all of us have different experiences and are in a different place.


Yeah, exactly, many went through and sounded exactly like you, and guess what....they got smacked down here and forced to look at themselves honestly from outside their little houses of pain and self-pity, and if they could handle that, they stood up and made better choices for themselves.

If you want to be petted and coddled and have a pity party, that's NOT going to help you at all (I don't know your story, but that's how it is for anyone), and this isn't the place for that. Here, you will get a bunch of advice on how to get OUT of your pain and misery, and what choices you have to do that.

That guy who made you angry with 2000+ posts...? He had one of the worst and most expensive divorce experiences you can have. He KNOWS what he's talking about, and he's just trying to get you to be strong so it doesn't happen to YOU the way it did to him. If that doesn't help you, you can just ignore him, you don't need to take it personally.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

Jeezus... what a circle jerk this is. Petted and coddled? Do you really think thats what I'm looking for? For christs sake I wasn't asking for ****. I had a bad night. What? You can't have a bad night? Some of you are ridiculous... 2000 posts makes you suddenly the guru on everything everyone is going through?.. I've gotten good advice here, I've been whacked too.... I had a bad night. Suddenly I'm freakin public enemy number 1....I'm out.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

Sorry... There are better ways to "help" someone than just referring to the size of their balls. I've gotten better advice from a camel.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I've always expected sex to be a part of our marriage and it always has been. It certainly seems like my wife agrees even after 32 years of marriage. We both like sex and other forms of physical intimacy. We had morning wake up sex just a little over an hour ago, lol. If we are physically capable we will continue to have sex regularly. I expect someday the frequency of intercourse will slow down, but we will always have physical intimacy. To us, that physical intimacy, be it sex or something else, is what makes a marriage differnt from other relationships we encounter in life. 

There was a time frame for us where sex slowed down quite a bit due to kids, career and other distractions. Honestly those other distractions were mostly on me and I wish I would have been more aware back then that I was leaving my wife somewhat unsatisfied with both sex and our intimacy. To some degree this is just the natural ebb and flow of desire for sex that happens over the years, but you should always be paying attention and really listening to you spouse. 

I think sex an intimacy should be discussed regularly too. This is where I feel we needed the most work. I've always been pretty open, but my wife not so much. Even though she loves sex she hasn't always been willing or interested in talking about it for some reason. I sensed some embarrassment. Like we are talking about something dirty. Which is completely silly after being sexually involved for decades. It was just a comfort thing. That was part of what brought me to TAM. I was looking for ways to improve our sex life and ways to discuss our sex life.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Sex is something that feels good and doesn't _have_ to take a lot of time and energy. Its a part of my job to make sure that she looks forward to getting sweaty and sticky.

My main expectation is a dialog about it. "I like it when you *. Can you do that more?" "I don't like _*." "I want to ___ tonight." Etcetera.

I've had an orgasm almost every night since I was 12 and I'd like my partner and I to make it a shared, mutual experience as often as possible. Maybe not _every_ night (and sometimes more than once, though  ).


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> Jeezus... what a circle jerk this is. Petted and coddled? Do you really think thats what I'm looking for? For christs sake I wasn't asking for ****. I had a bad night. What? You can't have a bad night? Some of you are ridiculous... 2000 posts makes you suddenly the guru on everything everyone is going through?.. I've gotten good advice here, I've been whacked too.... I had a bad night. Suddenly I'm freakin public enemy number 1....I'm out.


I’m a straight to the point kinda guy. You’re not going to find a bunch of tree huggers, rainbows and unicorns on this site. Much of the best advice is direct and straight forward. It’s going to smack you in the face. But in the end, you’ll look back and say to yourself “why did I waste so much headspace on my ex”. It’s never personal. Much of what we say we say from experience.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I've always expected sex to be a part of our marriage and it always has been. It certainly seems like my wife agrees even after 32 years of marriage. We both like sex and other forms of physical intimacy. We had morning wake up sex just a little over an hour ago, lol. If we are physically capable we will continue to have sex regularly. I expect someday the frequency of intercourse will slow down, but we will always have physical intimacy. To us, that physical intimacy, be it sex or something else, is what makes a marriage differnt from other relationships we encounter in life.
> 
> There was a time frame for us where sex slowed down quite a bit due to kids, career and other distractions. Honestly those other distractions were mostly on me and I wish I would have been more aware back then that I was leaving my wife somewhat unsatisfied with both sex and our intimacy. To some degree this is just the natural ebb and flow of desire for sex that happens over the years, but you should always be paying attention and really listening to you spouse.
> 
> I think sex an intimacy should be discussed regularly too. This is where I feel we needed the most work. I've always been pretty open, but my wife not so much. Even though she loves sex she hasn't always been willing or interested in talking about it for some reason. I sensed some embarrassment. Like we are talking about something dirty. Which is completely silly after being sexually involved for decades. It was just a comfort thing. That was part of what brought me to TAM. I was looking for ways to improve our sex life and ways to discuss our sex life.


Great info Big.

I think there is a lot to be gained from being part of a long term marriage. I see in my own situation, our previous lives (marriages) get in the way of this one. The wife's moreso than mine as she goes back to what her ex did to her and relives it and t affects us NOW. That is the one nice thing of a LTR marriage as you don't always have those "bad memories"

Hope life after your fire loss is getting better for you by the way.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’m a straight to the point kinda guy. You’re not going to find a bunch of tree huggers, rainbows and unicorns on this site. Much of the best advice is direct and straight forward. It’s going to smack you in the face. But in the end, you’ll look back and say to yourself “why did I waste so much headspace on my ex”. It’s never personal. Much of what we say we say from experience.


My situation was screwed up and the thought love I got helped me get through it but I don't give advice here anymore. The reason? People get mad.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> Jeezus... what a circle jerk this is. Petted and coddled? Do you really think thats what I'm looking for? For christs sake I wasn't asking for ****. I had a bad night. What? You can't have a bad night? Some of you are ridiculous... 2000 posts makes you suddenly the guru on everything everyone is going through?.. I've gotten good advice here, I've been whacked too.... I had a bad night. Suddenly I'm freakin public enemy number 1....I'm out.


Did you even READ the part I put in parentheses after I said "petted and coddled"...?? You clearly aren't at a point where you can read anything without taking it like an attack, which is NOT how I meant what I wrote. I was trying to make things clearer for you, not worse, so my apologies.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> You clearly aren't at a point where you can read anything without taking it like an attack, which is NOT how I meant what I wrote.


Someone else on here recently said (paraphrasing) _there's a difference in being told what you want to hear and what you need to hear. _Unfortunately, some can't handle the latter (at least not right away).

* edit: As for the topic, I think most people expect regular and mutually satisfying sex to be a part of marriage. I'm just not sure how many have realistic expectations of what it takes to keep that going.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)
> 
> The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking. What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?
> 
> ...


Yes, sex with each other is a given for both spouses. Regular, frequent.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is perfectly normal to have expectations. 

It is also perfectly normal to have things fall short of your expectations to a greater or lesser degree.

None of those expectations make a bit of difference if you aren't willing to stand up for them.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

No sex, no marriage (unless truly physically unable, and then we'd have an open marriage - if we still want to stay together). So yes, there are expectations re: sex, and about how we treat each other in general.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

bobert said:


> Obviously things change and it won't be exactly the same but there is *no point putting on a show during the dating phase and then turning into a different person after saying "I do".*


This IMO.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)
> 
> The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking. What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?
> 
> ...


ALL my expectations, including sex, is what I expect to continue from when we were dating. I wouldn't put up with anything less. If you didn't do it before marriage, don't start doing it after marriage, and if you did it before the marriage, plan on doing it during the marriage.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

HarryBosch said:


> I don't know.. what I do know is I enjoyed sex with my wife.. and now that I'm not having sex with her anymore... it sucks.


I do like those Harry Bosch books....sorry had to say that after I saw the name. Sorry you're not having sex with your wife, tell her to put out or get out.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

I've gotten criticism here.. some constructive, some not so constructive.... but mostly it is a wake up call. What you are forgetting is this is text stuff that can be misconstrued in a variety of ways. I can read fine. Its this whole idea that "I've been through it", so "I know better". I am sure down the road I will be at a point where my time fixating on my ex will dissipate and I'll be like "what a waste". 

No one would be human if they didn't have at one point or another an evening of wishing they had done something different with their relationships. I had one of those evenings. It doesn't make me weak, nor does it have anything to do with whether I have balls or not. It was simply a bad day. To reflect that it was anything more than that is pretty presumptuous. I understand why the flak... it was just at the wrong time, and I wasn't in the mood.

My apologies if someone here took it the wrong way or went on the offensive because of my attitude.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

.. and yes, I am a Bosch fan..Books, and TV.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

No hard feelings on my end Diane... I know you were just trying to help.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

HarryBosch said:


> .. and yes, I am a Bosch fan..Books, and TV.


I like Bosch too, oil filters and spark plugs. Have no idea about the books or TV.


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## Deguello (Apr 3, 2015)

RebuildingMe said:


> Forget that post, brother. It was discovered that she just hated sex with her husband.


Sounds like my house


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I know...it just made me wonder about what anyone should REALLY expect from sex in our marriages.


I'll take ...a lot for 200.00 Alex.


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## Recovering Lawyer (6 mo ago)

We were hs sweethearts and virgins when we were married, so no real sexual experience outside of each other. However, we've been married for 30+ years and have a big family and multiple grandchildren. We have some experience in marriage.

Expect ups and downs sexually (no pun). I think one of the major issues is the different perspectives men and women take into marriage. A man will often think "This will be great, sex all the time, wild as I want" while the woman thinks "It will be so fun to snuggle and be romanced." Women spend too much time watching romcoms, men spend too much time watching porn (my personal belief is one second is too much). Our expectations are unrealistic.

We were married in our early-20s. When we were young she had more physical drive and that was great, but we were also more selfish and there were times where I expected her to do this thing and that thing (in large part because of my regrettable porn experiences) and she'd sometimes really get into wilder sex, but other times she'd get resentful and shut down. There were times early on where we might have sex a half dozen times one week, then sullenly, bitterly, have no sex for a month because of some wounded egos we were holding onto. She'd say things like "Your kiss disgusts me" and I'd yell and throw childish tantrums when I wanted sex but she was not into it.

When my wife was in her fertile years and pregnant, there were times where she hated sex and seemed to resent my very existence. She didn't actually, it was the hormones speaking. This was acute during the first trimester. YMMV, but that was our experience. First three months of pregnancies were generally rough, second trimester she was all over me and it was wonderful, like going back to teen years in the backseat of a car, third trimester was kind of "meh" for both of us, she was so heavily laden and uncomfortable. After a baby was born, her attitude was "What's sex? It's seems like something aliens would do. Look, you already served your purpose, bub, I have a baby now." She'd talk about having "negative desire." It would always take us a while--a month or two--to get back into it.

As we've gotten into middle age and she's gone through menopause, she no longer has much physical drive, but I still have my physical drive intact from the 1980s. But we've met in the middle. When I sense that she isn't into sex at all--and of course I'm an expert in my wife, we've been together since the Reagan Administration--I usually tell her "Why don't you just sleep tonight, sweetie, seems like sex is the last thing you want to do now." She appreciates that. When she senses I want sex badly, she almost always takes good care of me. And over the years, she's learned all my little quirks and desires and she's become very giving and willing to do more in certain ways, and without the resentment of youth. She understands me and appreciates me as a man. We've both become a lot more giving in bed. We make love three times a week on average and it's better than it was when we were in our 20s. It's not just her taking care of me, it just takes her engine longer to warm up and she almost never has desire going in. But when she gets going after foreplay, it's just like the good old days. Just takes longer to get to that point.

As I've gotten more into her and completely stopped looking at other women or porn (which I turned away from many years ago) I find myself judging all women by her standards of perfection--I truly have come to see her as the epitome of desirability and beauty. She's genuinely a nice-looking woman and has retained a good deal of what attracted me to her as a teenager, even as she's moved into her 50s, but I know some of this must be a matter of "love is blind." Still, it doesn't matter to me, I'm glad to be blind. I look at her and have more desire for her now, wrinkles and stretch marks and all, than when she was 16 and we started dating. She claims to feel the same way in spite of my 50-something looks with the gray and crow's feet. I think she's crazy! If you go all in on your spouse, sex gets better. I've seen the ups and downs of it, but it's better than ever now.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Recovering Lawyer said:


> We were hs sweethearts and virgins when we were married, so no real sexual experience outside of each other. However, we've been married for 30+ years and have a big family and multiple grandchildren. We have some experience in marriage.
> 
> Expect ups and downs sexually (no pun). I think one of the major issues is the different perspectives men and women take into marriage. A man will often think "This will be great, sex all the time, wild as I want" while the woman thinks "It will be so fun to snuggle and be romanced." Women spend too much time watching romcoms, men spend too much time watching porn (my personal belief is one second is too much). Our expectations are unrealistic.
> 
> ...


You have survived and thrived! Well done.


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## Recovering Lawyer (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You have survived and thrived! Well done.


Thanks so much! There were times over the decades where we were so bitter at each other. Back in the 90s about five years in, I had to admit the marriage was more painful that not being married. Many years later, she told me she was feeling the same way at the same time. We're very religious, Christians. She told me she said to God "You made a big mistake here, leading me to this guy. Biggest mistake of my life." I've never fooled around on her physically but when I was younger I'd admire the looks of other women and of course there was the struggle with porn. But we kept hanging on. It was an exercise of will to get away from that and to stop looking at other women. But as I did I found I treasured her more and now she's the one for me. She responded and is a lot more understanding. 

We still act like jerks, we just had a loud fight last weekend. Of all things a grandchild of ours we were watching who we thought was on the other side of the house playing with our younger kids knocked on the bedroom door and said "I've come to stop this argument." Of course, what were we to do at that point? Shamed (rightfully) by a small child, a couple middle-aged people acting less mature than a little kid, we shut up and thanked him for being the adult in the room. But overall we fight a lot less, we're a lot less selfish and our marriage and sex is so much better. It's been one long fight with our selfishness slowly being whittled down. 

So, if the OP is still reading, persistence is the only answer I have. That, and try to be sold out completely on your spouse at an earlier age than it took me. I wish I could go back and be at 20-something what I've learned to be at 50-something, but of course, that knowledge only came through making all those mistakes and doing all those crappy things all those years.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Recovering Lawyer said:


> Thanks so much! There were times over the decades where we were so bitter at each other. Back in the 90s about five years in, I had to admit the marriage was more painful that not being married. Many years later, she told me she was feeling the same way at the same time. We're very religious, Christians. She told me she said to God "You made a big mistake here, leading me to this guy. Biggest mistake of my life." I've never fooled around on her physically but when I was younger I'd admire the looks of other women and of course there was the struggle with porn. But we kept hanging on. It was an exercise of will to get away from that and to stop looking at other women. But as I did I found I treasured her more and now she's the one for me. She responded and is a lot more understanding.
> 
> We still act like jerks, we just had a loud fight last weekend. Of all things a grandchild of ours we were watching who we thought was on the other side of the house playing with our younger kids knocked on the bedroom door and said "I've come to stop this argument." Of course, what were we to do at that point? Shamed (rightfully) by a small child, a couple middle-aged people acting less mature than a little kid, we shut up and thanked him for being the adult in the room. But overall we fight a lot less, we're a lot less selfish and our marriage and sex is so much better. It's been one long fight with our selfishness slowly being whittled down.
> 
> So, if the OP is still reading, persistence is the only answer I have. That, and try to be sold out completely on your spouse at an earlier age than it took me. I wish I could go back and be at 20-something what I've learned to be at 50-something, but of course, that knowledge only came through making all those mistakes and doing all those crappy things all those years.


I wish my parents had paid any attention to me when they were fighting. I just hid in my room paralyzed and they never had anything to say about it with me or wanted how I felt about it. I told my mother much later in life when I was probably in my late 30s how paralyzed and terrified I was when they fought and she said she had no idea I felt that way. 

So I'm glad yours spoke up. 

Yours is an inspiring story. Of course no two people are going to have a completely smooth road because it's two different people. It's all about how you adapted to it together that made it work.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In the end when I look upon the landscape of TAM I believe sexpectations don’t mean squat because of the amount of sexless people here that stay married anyways. I suppose for many that the difference between what they expect and what they get is still not enough to call them into difficult action.

On another note: Often when you read about sexless stories it almost comes off as “she doesn’t let me stick my D in her P”. It lacks the intimate elements. I wish we could have the other side of the story as well. There are times when “you just want sex” is a legitimate response from a partner and not some evil female plot……

Sexpectations …… you are just as responsible as your partner for making it happen but you probably are going to have a lot better luck if you think of it as Depths of Intimacy.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> If you didn't do it before marriage, don't start doing it after marriage, and if you did it before the marriage, plan on doing it during the marriage.


For you, how does this expectation leave room for exploration, growth, changing abilities and interests in an LTR?


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## Recovering Lawyer (6 mo ago)

Quad73 said:


> For you, how does this expectation leave room for exploration, growth, changing abilities and interests in an LTR?


Good point. For example, from time to time we did a number of things before marriage (as undisciplined hornball teenagers and early-20-somethings) but we never had actual sex. If we'd have applied the "If you didn't do it before marriage" standard, we'd still be virgins and would have never had all our kids. 

Our sex life has been continually evolving: new positions, new techniques, things we used to do that she's no longer comfortable with, things we do now that we both get into but that when we were young, we never considered and I wouldn't have even been comfortable asking her to do. We've found after 30 years things that we both enjoy, and I expect if we have another 30 years together, our sex life will change the same as it has to this point.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Quad73 said:


> For you, how does this expectation leave room for exploration, growth, changing abilities and interests in an LTR?


I was more talking about the fundamentals of marriage. Sex, working, housework, attitude, etc.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)


I have never had expectations, its just about our mutual needs. This bothers me as I probably was too "demanding" early on by not understanding her social background. Where she comes from, if a bloke tells a sheila to get it on, she gets it on. Male dominant. So even my slightest hint could be taken as demand and I need to be careful.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

TBH this is akin to asking a couple if they’re for a clean environment or helping starving kids in Africa. The public answer and the private answer are usually different.

The average person may tell you they are all for doing something for the environment but would be hard pressed to show you they are or even think about it.

Unrealistic expectations and double-standards are relationship killers. Society has normalized that one partner can greatly lower their partner’s expectations about sex yet their expectations of the standard of living or romance provided by the breadwinner perpetually increase and are non-negotiable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## High and dry (6 mo ago)

I expect openness, honesty, trust, and communication. These things have always been an integral part of the sexual relationship between my wife and I. Well, maybe we’ve hit a hard patch with this lately, but I’d still say these are my main expectations.

She was a virgin when we married, I was not. This wasn’t intentional on my part. I just so happened to fall in love with a woman who was a virgin and saving herself for marriage. It wouldn’t have mattered to me if she had multiple partners before me - the status of her virginity had nothing to do with why I married her. It actually made me apprehensive and nervous. I had to take some time to decide if I could commit to no sex prior to marriage while we were dating as well as accepting the unknown of what might happen sexually after marriage. She seemed eager and excited for it but there was always a chance she’d decide she didn’t like it or decide that she didn’t enjoy it with ME. This worried me because I also knew that I wouldn’t and couldn’t expect a woman who didn’t enjoy sex to have sex with me on a regular basis just because she was my wife. I accepted that it was a chance I was choosing to take and I’d learn to live with the consequences. We discussed sex plenty after we were engaged. It turned out that we both expected the same things from each other and any sort of minimum frequency or certain sec acts were not on either of our minds. It was just important that we were open, honest, communicated, and trusted each other. This has, for the most part, played a big part in our sex life remaining active and enjoyable for both of us and allowed it to evolve in a way that I think we’ve both been satisfied with.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)


As someone who has plenty of expectations in sharing sex, I don't see anything wrong with having expectations at all. That said one can have all the expectations they like. Yet who they are with, also gets to decide if those expectations are fulfilled or not.



> The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking.


Having lots of sexual expectations is perfectly reasonable to any degree one wants. Although being realistic about ones expectations is a good idea. And is probably better served by basing those expectations upon what one can get to share, with who they are with or who they have been with.



> What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?


The should parts of my expectations for my married sex life are as follows.

Frequent sharing of sex, multiple days a week, plus time permitting inclusive of multiple occasions on some days.
Frequent sharing of oral sex (standalone and as part of other things) both giving and receiving.
Frequent swallowing of my sperm, taking cum facials, and drooling my sperm from her mouth onto her tits.
Frequent receiving of anal penetration, via penis, fingers, butt plugs and other phallus objects.
Frequent posing for sexually explicit drawings, paintings, photographs, and movies to capture of our sex life.
Frequent flirting, fondling and flashing of her pink bits, at home or while out and about, if opportunity presents.
Frequent taking of my penis in her mouth, regardless of where it has been inside her (before & after ejaculation).
Mostly sleeping nude and having no problem with general nudity at other times as well.
Often wearing sexually attractive clothing and underwear for sexual purposes.
Often giving anilingus and prostate massages as well.
Often having an unshaved vulva and armpits.
Often having a shaved vulva and armpits (I like the variety).
Often participating in (with the emphasis on receiving in the mouth as well) golden shower play.
Sometimes sharing sex outdoors, while out and about if opportunity arises.
Sometime receiving vaginal fisting play.
Acceptance and encouragement of my collecting a range of erotica and pornography, both historic and modern.
Of course there are plenty of other things that my wife and I also frequently enjoy sharing. Yet those things as listed above, are my minimum marital sex expectations. All of which are things that are consensually met by my wife, with plenty of enthusiasm as well.

Now of course my list may not work for others, yet it works for my wife and I. Which is all that matters for us, within the married sex life that we share.

As to things being too far, I can't think of any expectations I hold that I consider too far at all. Especially since such things have simply been the norm throughout almost all of my sex life.

That said the short list that follows below, are of things that I consider personal hard limits, which makes them things that I wouldn't accept or settle for from my wife in our marriage.

Sharing sex with others, without my informed consent.
Wanting to do any scat play.
Wanting to do any blood play or cutting play.
Wanting to do any age play.
Wanting to do any nappy fetish play.



> I know this will differ for each person but just curious as to your thoughts. I mean some will say sex once a week is normal while others might saying going to an adults only resort with some nudity might be normal.


Well I think that sex once a week is normal for some, while going to an adults only resort with some nudity is also normal for some. I think people ought to feel free to enjoy the sex life they have, however that is expressed in whatever way they choose with their consenting adult partner/s.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> people get married for all the 'right' reasons, yet sex and attraction isn't considered one of them


That is exactly true. They somehow feel that they continue to "own" their own body. But the Apostle Paul instructs that they no longer "own" their body. That in marriage, their spouse yields their body.to their spouse on a continual basis (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)..

My W said to me "...I am 68 years old and I haven't wanted sex since DD died. I know it's unfair to you, but I can't change it and I'm sorry " At least she recognized the unfairness of her unilateral decision. But, she still believes that she is entitled to decide alone. The bible commands that she is not.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Personal said:


> As someone who has plenty of expectations in sharing sex, I don't see anything wrong with having expectations at all. That said one can have all the expectations they like. Yet who they are with, also gets to decide if those expectations are fulfilled or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just curious where you guys stand on the nude resort. It’s been a bucket list item for me for years. My ex was a hard no. My gf would consider it. However, we are not getting any younger and the clock is ticking. Have you guys been? Was it worth it? Did it check a need of yours, or didn’t do a thing?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> But people get married for all the 'right' reasons, yet sex and attraction isn't considered one of them. It is shallow, superficial, to marry for good sex. And we wonder we have so many sexless marriages now.





TJW said:


> That is exactly true.


Please think further.

Just because you and some others are inclined to get married with little to no consideration towards sexual desire and attraction. This is not true for lots of other people, who don't share your approach to such things.

As for myself, sexual attraction and wanting to continue sharing sex as a consequence of the enjoyment of that. Had absolute primacy in getting married to my wife. Which probably contributes to the sustainment of sharing a very frequent, very rich ongoing high quality sex life with my wife throughout 26 years to date.

Likewise I cannot imagine myself ever wanting to to marry anyone for any reason other than out of feeling considerable sexual desire for each other and for wanting to continue sharing a splendid sex life with them.



> They somehow feel that they continue to "own" their own body. But the Apostle Paul instructs that they no longer "own" their body. That in marriage, their spouse yields their body.to their spouse on a continual basis (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)..


Well I've never felt that my wife owns my body, or that I own her body at all ever. To the point that I feel she is the arbiter of her own body, plus her own desire and that she has no obligation to share sex with me at all. Yet I get oodles of sex, in part because the sex we share comes from mutual desire for it, with no passion killing nonsense, like we owe it to each other, regardless of how we feel about wanting to share it or not. 

Maybe sex is more likely to be kept alive in a relationship, if it is generated through mutual desire to share sex together versus it being just an obligation.



> My W said to me "...I am 68 years old and I haven't wanted sex since DD died. I know it's unfair to you, but I can't change it and I'm sorry " At least she recognized the unfairness of her unilateral decision. But, she still believes that she is entitled to decide alone. The bible commands that she is not.


I'm sorry you haven't enjoyed sharing a great sex life with your wife.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Just curious where you guys stand on the nude resort. It’s been a bucket list item for me for years. My ex was a hard no. My gf would consider it. However, we are not getting any younger and the clock is ticking. Have you guys been? Was it worth it? Did it check a need of yours, or didn’t do a thing?


We've never been to any, we're not opposed to such places yet it's not something either of us are interested in going to.

On the other hand we have been to public nudist beaches (not part of any resorts) and despite being older, and long past being the beautiful people. We're both fine being naked around others, at nudist beaches.

As to the experience of it, it has been for the most part okay, although we did have one awkward guy, who came over to I suppose hopefully "frolic with us" in the surf. Yet he quickly got the message neither of us were interested. Otherwise we have had fun doing it, and it is a bit of a charge and kick for both of us, which has its rewards.

Plus it was only a few years ago for us doing that for the first time, it's funny since being older, we care less about what others may think and are certainly less shy about our bodies despite our flaws. And of course everyone is naked underneath their clothes, so it's not like we're much different from anyone else.

That said if it's on your bucket list, and your girlfriend might consider it. I hope you ask her and talk about it with her. Since she may be more easily up for it than you think.

There was a time when I was younger when I didn't bring up some ideas with my wife. Yet I found out, she's up for more than I presumed or gave her credit for. Especially as she ages, she is more and more willing to try things, that she didn't do when she was younger.

Anyway I hope you get to share doing that with your girlfriend.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TJW said:


> At least she recognized the unfairness of her unilateral decision. But, she still believes that she is entitled to decide alone. The bible commands that she is not.


She recognizes herself as the only authority over her life. The Word has no place in her life. Like most people she says and does what SHE wants without regard for anyone else.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Personal said:


> We've never been to any, we're not opposed to such places yet it's not something either of us are interested in going to.
> 
> On the other hand we have been to public nudist beaches (not part of any resorts) and despite being older, and long past being the beautiful people. We're both fine being naked around others, at nudist beaches.
> 
> ...


Awesome the way you two are on the same page. We considered a nude beach over where we live as a trial run, but afraid we’d run into someone we know and that might be awkward. I think we’d both prefer somewhere far away.

We do talk about sex openly, what we both like, etc. She was married 20 years, so I’d guess her partner count is 10, maybe 15? Who knows. Since meeting me though, she has branched out a bit sexually. Anal for first time (she enjoyed it at least to the point we’ve done it multiple times) and BJ’s to the point of taking it in her mouth. She’s still a runner though (nearest garbage can or sink), something she wants to work on and has (she no longer sprints, it’s down to a fast walk). Also, rim jobs are now okay and a regular mutual part of foreplay.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> She was married 20 years, so I’d guess her partner count is 10, maybe 15?


That brings up a good question that could be a new thread so as to avoid a hijack here.

What is considered a normal or acceptable partner count as when you said 10 or 15, I thought for a woman that would be high...Not sure why I think that but just did? Maybe because my wife's is 2.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That brings up a good question that could be a new thread so as to avoid a hijack here.


Is it a threadjack if the thread starter ( you ) changes the direction of a thread?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Is it a threadjack if the thread starter ( you ) changes the direction of a thread?


Good point! I'm not sure....


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Is it a threadjack if the thread starter ( you ) changes the direction of a thread?


I have seen threadstarters (now I’m singing Prodigy in my head) say essentially “It’s my thread, and I’ll jack if I want to!” I think the mods are cool if the thread starter is cool.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Awesome the way you two are on the same page.


Thanks, being on the same page certainly helps.



> We considered a nude beach over where we live as a trial run, but afraid we’d run into someone we know and that might be awkward. I think we’d both prefer somewhere far away.


Yep, we go to one that is two hours drive away.



> We do talk about sex openly, what we both like, etc. She was married 20 years, so I’d guess her partner count is 10, maybe 15? Who knows. Since meeting me though, she has branched out a bit sexually. Anal for first time (she enjoyed it at least to the point we’ve done it multiple times) and BJ’s to the point of taking it in her mouth. She’s still a runner though (nearest garbage can or sink), something she wants to work on and has (she no longer sprints, it’s down to a fast walk). Also, rim jobs are now okay and a regular mutual part of foreplay.


Awesome, it sounds like you're both having lots of fun together and enjoying each other, which is how it's supposed to work. I'm glad your having fun, after what you went through with your divorce.

As to being a runner, the visual of having a woman you are with drool it onto her tits to spit it out is nicer than watching her do the dash to the sink. On rimming I hope more people get to experience it, because well you guys know why.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> She recognizes herself as the only authority over her life. The Word has no place in her life.


You are absolutely right. I love her deeply and this fact scares me to death. I want her to be saved but I doubt that she is. When ( try to talk to her about it, try to tell her that salvation only begins with the "sinners prayer" - she rejects the idea that she must seek the Word and let it change her.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Personal said:


> Just because you and some others are inclined to get married with little to no consideration towards sexual desire and attraction. This is not true for lots of other people, who don't share your approach to such things.


I am not at all so inclined. My problem is that my wives didn't (and don't) share my approach.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

TJW said:


> My W said to me "...I am 68 years old and I haven't wanted sex since DD died. I know it's unfair to you, but I can't change it and I'm sorry "


I'm so sorry for your loss. Apparently, this broke her. 

Does she unknowingly resent you in some way for this or for your response after the fact? As in, expecting you to erase her pain (impossible) and having ill feelings toward you because you couldn't? I've seen this. 

Has she had counseling or anything?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

I don't expect anything but I hope to be pursued. And in being pursued, which I believe many women deep down desire, it is also something we can't just expect to happen and then reject our spouse when they do. Talk about setup for disaster. 

Otherwise, the only TRUE expectation I would hope for is for sex to not be demanded by my spouse. My former husband expected me to be ready whenever he was and though I never said no (as that would destroy him) he put ZERO effort into a build up, into foreplay, even foreplay outside the bedroom. It was a very lonely one-sided kind of deal. So, that would be my only expectation, or not even, but desire.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> I don't expect anything but I hope to be pursued. And in being pursued, which I believe many women deep down desire, it is also something we can't just expect to happen and then reject our spouse when they do. Talk about setup for disaster.
> 
> Otherwise, the only TRUE expectation I would hope for is for sex to not be demanded by my spouse. My former husband expected me to be ready whenever he was and though I never said no (as that would destroy him) he put ZERO effort into a build up, into foreplay, even foreplay outside the bedroom. It was a very lonely one-sided kind of deal. So, that would be my only expectation, or not even, but desire.


My W is the same. Good thing me too 😉 now, where's she at 🙄🤣🤣?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> As a married person, are there any expectations of sex (sexpectations) you should expect? (enter whatever synonym you chose for "expect" if expect is too "entitled" a word)
> 
> The idea is are there are any aspects of sex you should expect in a marriage? And if so, to what degree? i.e. frequency, quality, etc. I know you should not expect swinging or anything wild like that but what about your spouse staying in shape and maintaining attractiveness? Wanting to talk about sex? Sexual flirtation? Whatever you might be thinking. What should be part of the sexual life in your marriage and what would be too far?
> 
> ...


Depends on individuals somewhat I would guess.

I require a lot of sex, intimacy and displays of desire.

Require is a word I use over expectation and want.

I don't play and give as good or better than I get so I'm not hypocritical in my choices.

There are apparently a lot of folks who do play with nonsense which appears to be a total waste of life.

Out of all the hardships and true pain of this world, being stupid about sex and affection seems sub moronic to this barbarian.

A woman, or man, better be down for it as much as health permits.

Death comes all too soon and pain is ever present. Quit playing stupid games.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Depends on individuals somewhat I would guess.
> 
> I require a lot of sex, intimacy and displays of desire.
> 
> ...


Knock it off with the games and quit being so selfish people. Giving is one of life's greatest joys and pleasures if you let it be!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> I don't expect anything but I hope to be pursued. And in being pursued, which I believe many women deep down desire, it is also something we can't just expect to happen and then reject our spouse when they do. Talk about setup for disaster.


I think you have a right for *ALL* of your expectations to be met, including wanting to be romanced by your spouse. Your late husband evidently knew nothing of how to love a woman. Don't settle for anything less than what you want in a husband. 

The key is to have these discussions in detail with a potential partner during the courtship, find out as best you can what you are getting into before tying the knot. Yes people can and do tell tall tales about who they really are, but usually if you spend some time and effort they will accidentally let the mask slip.


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## YesGoodboy (5 mo ago)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> It was a very lonely one-sided kind of deal. So, that would be my only expectation, or not even, but desire.


He sounds like a taker. I learned to be a giver and oh how wonderful sex is for both of us!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> The key is to have these discussions in detail with a potential partner during the courtship, find out as best you can what you are getting into before tying the knot.


Good advice. Its just sometimes people change after they say "I do". That's what happened with us. Still working on it just wish it wouldn't have happened that way.

My "sexpectations" were that we would continue to get better after saying "I do" but hers apparently were not so now we are having to revisit them. And it wasn't just the sex things in reality but others as well that impacted the sex aspects.

But I have learned that sex just isn't as important to the wife as it is to me so thats part of my own learning I suppose?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Good advice. Its just sometimes people change after they say "I do". That's what happened with us. Still working on it just wish it wouldn't have happened that way.
> 
> My "sexpectations" were that we would continue to get better after saying "I do" but hers apparently were not so now we are having to revisit them. And it wasn't just the sex things in reality but others as well that impacted the sex aspects.
> 
> But I have learned that sex just isn't as important to the wife as it is to me so thats part of my own learning I suppose?


So would it be fair to say your wife was dishonest with you before she married you? She married under false pretenses?

Where there any signs when you were dating her that she was a dishonest person? Usually people let the mask slip a bit.

I mean wife n I talked about ALL of our expectations during the two years before we married. And everything she said remains true.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> So would it be fair to say your wife was dishonest with you before she married you? She married under false pretenses?
> 
> Where there any signs when you were dating her that she was a dishonest person? Usually people let the mask slip a bit.
> 
> I mean wife n I talked about ALL of our expectations during the two years before we married. And everything she said remains true.


His is not an unusual case. It happens all to often. I think it’s more deception and playing a role that is not true to yourself, more so than a flat out lie.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> So would it be fair to say your wife was dishonest with you before she married you? She married under false pretenses?
> 
> Where there any signs when you were dating her that she was a dishonest person? Usually people let the mask slip a bit.
> 
> I mean wife n I talked about ALL of our expectations during the two years before we married. And everything she said remains true.





RebuildingMe said:


> His is not an unusual case. It happens all to often. I think it’s more deception and playing a role that is not true to yourself, more so than a flat out lie.



Rus and Rebuilding, addressing both in same reply.

I don't think it was an outright lie or deception, just her not realizing how important sex was to me (and not just while dating) and I not realizing that it wasn't as important to her. Maybe my "sexpectations" were too high so maybe some of it is my fault as well? If "fault" is even really the right word?

Its just when we were dating:


She would initiate often and things like someone else posted in another thread about waking up to a BJ would happen to me too. Now I have to ask for one and more or less convince her to give one. Sex used to be started by her, now I feel I have to "convince" her. Haven't been awoken to a BJ or any sex for years. She'll go along some of the time when I start it but it feels like its duty sex much of the time.
We used to talk about where we wanted to have sex that was wild and crazy (outside, in the car, at some hotels) Now when I mention that I am dismissed with "Is that all your ever think about?" or...."Jeez, you are sex crazed"
When we would watch movies with sex scenes (R rated mind you not porn) she would say things like "We should try that sometime". Now she either gets up to go to the bathroom during those scenes or asks me to fast forward it through them.

So to follow what Rebudiling said, I don't think it was a lie but just her going along with my line of thinking while dating and now, not so much almost as if she can cross the "show interest in sex" box off the list. And who knows, maybe it IS me for wanting too much or too exciting sex?

And maybe I have done things like that on her list different from sex related things that I did while dating but don't do now...but I don't know as she doesn't tell me.

Not that any of this is really "bad" just frustrating as I wanted to have a GREAT married sex life and now ours is just OK.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

HarryBosch said:


> Jeezus... what a circle jerk this is. Petted and coddled? Do you really think thats what I'm looking for? For christs sake I wasn't asking for ****. I had a bad night. What? You can't have a bad night? Some of you are ridiculous... 2000 posts makes you suddenly the guru on everything everyone is going through?.. I've gotten good advice here, I've been whacked too.... I had a bad night. Suddenly I'm freakin public enemy number 1....I'm out.


You nailed it.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And maybe I have done things like that on her list different from sex related things that I did while dating but don't do now...but I don't know as she doesn't tell


That’s an excellent point. I’m sure if you asked her, she would tell you. But that would be like chore playing for sex. I’m sure if you really thought about it, you could figure out one or two things you stopped doing on your own. I wonder what her reaction would be to initiate sex if you started doing these things again on your own? I know getting my girl flowers just as a ‘thinking about you’ thing has changed. In the two plus years that we are dating, I now get them only for Mother’s Day and her birthday.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> That’s an excellent point. I’m sure if you asked her, she would tell you. But that would be like chore playing for sex. I’m sure if you really thought about it, you could figure out one or two things you stopped doing on your own. I wonder what her reaction would be to initiate sex if you started doing these things again on your own? I know getting my girl flowers just as a ‘thinking about you’ thing has changed. In the two plus years that we are dating, I now get them only for Mother’s Day and her birthday.


Yeah I have gone though the list and still do all the romance things...take her places, flowers, gifts, etc. Tell her I love her... Just not sure what else I could be missing?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah I have gone though the list and still do all the romance things...take her places, flowers, gifts, etc. Tell her I love her... Just not sure what else I could be missing?


Every person is different. I don't think you're missing anything. It's just the way it is. There isn't a fix for basic life changes.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Rus and Rebuilding, addressing both in same reply.
> 
> I don't think it was an outright lie or deception, just her not realizing how important sex was to me (and not just while dating) and I not realizing that it wasn't as important to her. *Maybe my "sexpectations" were too high so maybe some of it is my fault as well?* If "fault" is even really the right word?
> 
> ...


Surely seems more complicated than it really ought to be. All of this trying to imagine what/who changed and why. Trying to figure out if it is "your fault". Almost like betrayed spouse taking blame for being betrayed. How could your "sexpectations" be too high? It isn't like you didn't tell her and demonstrate what you expected. And she went along until the contract was signed, then renegotiates it unilaterally? Exhausting. 

I would submit that the "going along with your line of thinking" when dating is absolutely knowing deception on her part. If she was married before, how/why did that one end? 

If she has complaints about things you stopped doing she ought to "use her words".

If I recall correctly she is your second marriage and you had a bad first one, with considerable happy dating between the two? A lot of wild times? So you gave up a happy and fulfilling single life for an unhappy second marriage that you are now trapped in for financial reasons. And your wife full well knows how trapped you are. Were/are you a prime catch in terms of the finances? That is, did your second wife marry for a comfortable life style?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> The key is to have these discussions in detail with a potential partner during the courtship, find out as best you can what you are getting into before tying the knot. Yes people can and do tell tall tales about who they really are, but usually if you spend some time and effort they will accidentally let the mask slip.


Do such discussions about sexual expectations, really guarantee anything for the long haul or even the short haul?

The only discussions prior to marriage about expectations that my wife and I shared was over her keeping her surname and agreeing to get children baptised if we had any (which we did) to appease her mother. Then leaving the rest off, for any kids to decide for themselves as adults.

Yet my wife and I didn't share any discussion at all about sexual expectations. For myself I just presumed (based upon my experience) that with one exception (and I let her go after the first time we shared sex as a consequence), women were sexual dynamos with considerable wanton sexual appetites, who wanted lots of it.

As it turns out though, my wife and I still share a smorgasbord of rich (wonderfully base,wanton and filthy) sexual delights with plentiful frequency.

Will that remain ever thus? Of course not, age will take is toll, or we will grow tired of each other, and that's okay since life has its seasons.

I don't think tabling discussions of sexual expectations, presumptions or asserting sexual obligations, can really help generate and sustain the sharing of a rich sex life. Since there are simply too many moving parts in achieving it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Personal said:


> Having hangups must surely be a limiter in so many ways and can easily kill the sharing of sexual desire.


Yep...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Personal said:


> Yet my wife and I didn't share any discussion at all about sexual expectations. For myself I just presumed (based upon my experience) that with one exception (and I let her go after the first time we shared sex as a consequence), women were sexual dynamos with considerable wanton sexual appetites, who wanted lots of it.


That is certainly a more direct approach to the issue, test drives before buying a car prove that at least once the car performed as advertised. I bought a new car years ago that became a real lemon about six months after purchase. 

For some people test drives aren't an option because their beliefs won't permit it. So maybe that is wrongheaded but that is how it is.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And it wasn't just the sex things in reality but others as well that impacted the sex aspects.


This is important. It's often the other things that are more at issue than sex itself.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> But I have learned that sex just isn't as important to the wife as it is to me so thats part of my own learning I suppose?


Not necessarily. Perhaps just not as enjoyable as before.



FloridaGuy1 said:


> And who knows, maybe it IS me for wanting too much or too exciting sex?


It may be more that she thinks you see her as not good enough. For many women, you need to approach such suggestions with great care. She may have been thinking your sex life was good, but a new suggestion etc. made her feel "less than." Many of us are just as sensitive when it comes to sex as men are.

It sounds like the key is to make her fall in love with you again, make her know you're in love with her and that she is good enough, if you want to ramp up her desire.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> *It sounds like the key is to make her fall in love with you again*, make her know you're in love with her and that she is good enough, if you want to ramp up her desire.


The conventional wisdom is once a woman falls out of love with a man, she will never fall in love with him again. Instead she will find someone else to "fall in love" with and deliver the "I love you BUT..." speech.

@FloridaGuy1 has been married for years to this second wife, and evidently she is getting what she wants from the marriage ( provisioning ). It is him that isn't getting what he WANTS. She knows everything about him and is doing what she wants to do. It doesn't sound from his previous descriptions that she has fallen out of anything with him. She snagged him with a story line and now has him on the stringer. He isn't going anywhere. it isn't clear if she ever actually fell in love with him in the first place.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> The conventional wisdom is once a woman falls out of love with a man, she will never fall in love with him again. Instead she will find someone else to "fall in love" with and deliver the "I love you BUT..." speech.


Yep, that's the "conventional wisdom" among men.

I'm offering a woman's perspective. Most of us don't just pretend to like sex to "trap" you guys and then slam on the brakes, contrary to red pill opinion. MOST women enjoy sex too. Frankly, many men wouldn't be worth jumping through such hoops just to "snag" you. She probably thought he was going to be different than he is too. It happens.

Since he doesn't seem to want to end the marriage, I was just trying to offer him ways to explore rekindling things. Nothing wrong with that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> Yep, that's the "conventional wisdom" among men.
> 
> *I'm offering a woman's perspective.* Most of us don't just pretend to like sex to "trap" you guys and then slam on the brakes, contrary to red pill opinion. MOST women enjoy sex too. Frankly, many men wouldn't be worth jumping through such hoops just to "snag" you. She probably thought he was going to be different than he is too. It happens.
> 
> Since he doesn't seem to want to end the marriage, I was just trying to offer him ways to explore rekindling things. Nothing wrong with that.


I've learned that explaining how different women might actually think about things is "misandry" and makes you a "man hater." As is implying that not all women are lying liars looking to trap a man and deny him sex. (Which seems strange to people in situations like ours, but I'm sure that's also man hating.) Strangely enough, the implication that all women share a hive brain and don't have individual reactions to situations is NOT misogyny. Science. 🤣 

As to FloridaGuy's individual situation, we've only heard the one side, but I'm hesitant to say he hasn't tried. I just don't know what he's tried or how he tried it. I also have to wonder why, if he's this unhappy with his marriage, he stays. If he's not actively trying or actively detaching, then I'm not sure what he thinks will change. But again, I don't have the whole history. I just know he's unhappy.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I don't think anyone is saying that ALL women or ALL men behave in some hive-mind way. I was talking about @FloridaGuy1's wife. He knows best what has been going on. Many examples on this site of how people ( both genders!) use a story line that changes after the contract is signed. 

I for one am not calling anyone a "man hater" or "woman hater".


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I also have to wonder why, if he's this unhappy with his marriage, he stays.


He has told the story often. He got thoroughly reamed by his first wife during the divorce. He is too old to recover financially from another divorce. He stays because he doen't want to live the rest of his days in a tent eating dog food.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I've learned that explaining how different women might actually think about things is "misandry" and makes you a "man hater." As is implying that not all women are lying liars looking to trap a man and deny him sex. (Which seems strange to people in situations like ours, but I'm sure that's also man hating.) Strangely enough, the implication that all women share a hive brain and don't have individual reactions to situations is NOT misogyny. Science. 🤣


Yeah, phooey on all that. 😆



TexasMom1216 said:


> I just don't know what he's tried or how he tried it.


That's what I'm getting at. Some women can be super-sensitive to suggestions. He may say, "Mmm, let's try this," but she hears, "you suck in bed, get with the program." It can be a delicate thing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> He may say, "Mmm, let's try this," but she hears, "you suck in bed, get with the program."


As someone with a tendency to hear things that way, I gotta say that's tough on the man. How is he supposed to know what to say? And I say that as someone who regularly hears things like that and cries over it when I'm alone. My point is, yeah, he could probably talk to say, a woman who is sensitive like that and get some pointers about what to say but he also can't beat himself up because she interprets things a certain way. It requires both of them, don't you think?


Rus47 said:


> He has told the story often. He got thoroughly reamed by his first wife during the divorce. He is too old to recover financially from another divorce. He stays because he doen't want to live the rest of his days in a tent eating dog food.


Men do get reamed in divorce a lot, the family courts are a terrible mess. Are the two situations the same? Is there no way that the second divorce could be less of a nightmare, are there kids in this one, etc? I'm not trying to argue, I'm honestly asking because I hate that his choices are to be stuck in a miserable marriage or eat Dog Chow under the overpass. 😟


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> My point is, yeah, he could probably talk to say, a woman who is sensitive like that and get some pointers about what to say but he also can't beat himself up because she interprets things a certain way. It requires both of them, don't you think?


Absolutely. It's all about good communication for both, which isn't always easy on either one. He shouldn't beat himself up though, and I'm not blaming it all on him.

I just think men and women can help each other see things from another perspective, if we try to have open minds.



TexasMom1216 said:


> Men do get reamed in divorce a lot, the family courts are a terrible mess.


Yes, the system is a mess. Divorce, custody, abortion, etc. Men can and do get screwed over. I even read on here that a man couldn't get a vasectomy without his wife's permission, even though they were divorcing. I hope that was a mistake... that's just wrong, especially when he has no say if a woman wants to terminate THEIR baby.

Anyway, back to sexpectations... I think everyone has a right to expect a mutually satisfying sexual relationship, or the willingness to work towards one.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> I just think men and women can help each other see things from another perspective, if we try to have open minds.


Sure would be cool if these guys had access to a resource that say, had some experience with how women think and see things. You know, other than the men who write books and articles telling men how women think. 🤣 


theloveofmylife said:


> Anyway, back to sexpectations... I think everyone has a right to expect a *mutually satisfying* sexual relationship, or the willingness to work towards one.


I bolded the words that are likely the root of the problem. Porn isn't real.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Hey everyone...don't argue on my account...lets all play nice.

Rus is accurate. I went through a bad divorce after a long term marriage. Now most things are OK its just our sex life is pretty bad as she is just not into it. And she doesn't want to talk about it as she more or less thinks things are fine and I am just a horny teenager for wanting all that sex. And yeah, I won't leave for numerous reasons including what was mentioned about not wanting to give away half of everything I own again and possibly living alone in some apartment.

Theloveofmylife and TexMom I appreciate the input and maybe you are onto something. I just wish the wife wanted to talk about it and tell me but if I mentioned wanting to discuss sex I get an eye roll and it never goes well. Been trying for years now. I just feel like I am trying to solve the problem myself. But as Down By the River mentioned earlier, maybe there really isn't a problem to be solved? And maybe its me for wanting all that sex like a horny teenager???

I don't really know.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> I like Bosch too, oil filters and spark plugs. Have no idea about the books or TV.


Bosch dishwasher here


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I just feel like* I am trying to solve the problem myself*. But as Down By the River mentioned earlier, maybe there really isn't a problem to be solved? And maybe its me for wanting all that sex like a horny teenager???


You feel like you are trying to solve the problem by yourself because you are. For her it isn't her problem it is yours. There most definitely IS a problem, you wanting what you want is your right as an adult, no matter what anyone else may think. It is just a problem that has no solution. She doesn't want to talk about it, so that is that. I mean that would have to be the beginning wouldn't it? Has she ever shown any inclination to "fall in love with you again"? Did she ever show ANY indication that she was EVER in love with you?

I think you realize at this late date that what you have is the most you will ever get. All you can do is vent, which is free and maybe makes you feel better, especially knowing there are others in a worse boat than you are. More than likely as the years roll on what you have will decrease toward zero. Hopefully your libido will also trail off and you can spend your spare time fishing in Florida, or some other hobby. Neither you nor your wife will care anymore.

Quit trying to make this sow's ear into a silk purse. Get a dog to go fishing with you. The bass there are legend.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

You can take the advice of men who believe they know everything about how women think and give up, or you could ask an actual woman for advice. The choice is clear, of course the men know better. Their advice has helped you so far, right? 🤣


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hey everyone...don't argue on my account...lets all play nice.
> 
> Rus is accurate. I went through a bad divorce after a long term marriage. Now most things are OK its just our sex life is pretty bad as she is just not into it. And she doesn't want to talk about it as she more or less thinks things are fine and I am just a horny teenager for wanting all that sex. And yeah, I won't leave for numerous reasons including what was mentioned about not wanting to give away half of everything I own again and possibly living alone in some apartment.
> 
> ...


I don't think you wanting more frequent sex is like a horny teenager but like a man who's ducks are in order and would like to have the sex life he wants, to enjoy as an adult male. Very normal.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can take the advice of men who believe they know everything about how women think and give up, or you could ask an actual woman for advice. The choice is clear, of course the men know better. Their advice has helped you so far, right? 🤣


Hmmm. Angry, bitter, men who don't know how to romance their wives or women who ARE wives.. I wonder who could offer more insight?



FloridaGuy1 said:


> maybe there really isn't a problem to be solved? And maybe its me for wanting all that sex like a horny teenager???


Nah. Having a higher sex drive than your spouse doesn't make you a bad person.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> Hmmm. Angry, bitter, men who don't know how to romance their wives or women who ARE wives.. I wonder who could offer more insight?


Angry, bitter, DIVORCED men. Just saying. 


theloveofmylife said:


> Nah. Having a higher sex drive than your spouse doesn't make you a bad person.


It does NOT make you a bad person. It makes you a fun person. As long as you're interested in her too. Another aspect in which we might be able to offer assistance.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

theloveofmylife said:


> That's what I'm getting at. Some women can be super-sensitive to suggestions. He may say, "Mmm, let's try this," but she hears, "you suck in bed, get with the program." It can be a delicate thing.


Sometimes my wife does this as well. And in fairness, sometimes I am unintentionally insensitive. When that happens, I offer a fast and sincere apology.

Conversely, sometimes I am deliberately sensitive in my approach and it still happens. 

At that point, I have a simple response for her: "I have neither the interest, nor the inclination, to compete with your internal dialogue."

While feelings are important, projection to a seat in the victim chair is not okay. Part of being a happy, well adjusted adult is owning your emotions.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can take the advice of men who believe they know everything about how women think and give up, or you could ask an actual woman for advice. The choice is clear, of course the men know better. Their advice has helped you so far, right?


That is a hard determination to make because he has, to this point, avoided rocking the proverbial boat. 

Unfortunately, these things don't really resolve themselves without a willingness to do so. 

Change occurs when the pain of changing is less than the pain of staying the same. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can take the advice of men who believe they know everything about how women think and give up, or you could ask an actual woman for advice. The choice is clear, of course the men know better. Their advice has helped you so far, right? 🤣


Personally, I’m here for the perspective, advice, and experiences that are relevant and come from people I’ve grown to trust based on reading their posts over a long period of time.

Whether a solution has real potential to help in my situation depends on a lot of things.

I do find it especially helpful when someone has insight on my wife’s (possible) experience. Most often that has come from women who self-report as LD or LD-for-husband. Unfortunately here they share pertinent insights too rarely.

I also find it extremely helpful to hear from women with significant interest in sex and desire for their husbands. It’s easy to forget they exist (as if I ever knew). My heart breaks for those suffering at their partners disinterest and indifference.

It’s also helpful to hear from people in long lasting compatible relationships where a rich mutually satisfying sexual relationship add much to their experience of living.

If anyone thinks the specific parts between their legs grant them special insight on anyone’s situation, I factor that in to my assessment of whatever advice they offer. I try not to discount that advice completely, and I sometimes do get something useful from such posters, but sometimes not by taking what they say at face value.


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