# Dealing with my wife's negative disposition



## SeeThomasHowl

My wife and I have been married 3 years. Im 30, shes 27. We are very much in love, and generally supportive of eachother in basically every way. 

But my wife has a temper from hell. Shes aware of this and readily admits it. But her awareness of it does not lead her to exercise any restraint. Her position tends to be "This is the way I am, if u dont like it, find someone else." Which is infuriating to me. 

One of my major character flaws is that I am easy going to the point of being lazy and unproductive. This has affected our relationship in areas ranging from romance to finance. My wife obviously doesnt like it that Im this way, and it has caused us problems in the past, so I recognize this aspect of my personally as being a defect and I try my best to take appropriate actions to combat it, such as getting more organized, waking up earlier in the morning to run errands and get things done, and making more of an effort to show my wife affection and letting her know how I feel about her.

But when it comes to her negativity, she doesnt do the same. She is almost protective of it. She thinks that my not liking IT = not liking HER. She doesnt stop to think about how harmful it is to our relationship. She takes no responsibility for the problems her negativity causes.

I'll give a quick example. A few days ago my wife returned home from a 2 month vacation w/ her 8yo niece visiting family in their home country. It is 10pm and my wife is on the phone w/ her father, Im sitting next to her on the bed working on our laptop. She isnt speaking English so I dont know what shes saying, but its obvious that she is angry b/c of her tone and the loudness of her voice. We live in an apartment building with very thin walls, and our window is wide open b/c its summertime and we live on the 3rd floor so it gets really hot in our place. 

Over the course of about 10min she begins talking louder, and louder, until it gets to the point that she is basically yelling nonstop into the phone. I finally interupt and say calmly, politely, something like "Hon, the volume is getting a little loud." She gives me kind of a dirty look and quiets down.

Long story short over the next 36 hours we're basically caught up in a terrible fight over this. She feels hurt that I asked her to quiet down, saying that she feels that I am annoyed by the sound of her voice. I assure her that that isnt the case, that it was late and she was talking very loudly and I didnt want the neighbors to complain. She then says why am I so worried about "kissing the neighbors' ass" and that she was talking to her father and so what if she was talking loud. I tell her that I was just trying to bring it to her attention b/c maybe she wasnt aware of how loud her voice was getting. But she was offended to the point of being angry with me, and during the subsequent hours of argument goes into her normal routine of being combative toward me while also claiming to have somehow been victimized by me.

So given the mundane nature of what started this latest fight, u can imagine how often this kind of thing occurs, and how unbelievably horrible it gets when an actual "serious problem" arises.

Anybody have any similar experiences with this kind of thing? What is the best way for me to proceed? 
Thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## preso

SeeThomasHowl said:


> My wife and I have been married 3 years. Im 30, shes 27. We are very much in love, and generally supportive of eachother in basically every way.
> 
> But my wife has a temper from hell. Shes aware of this and readily admits it. But her awareness of it does not lead her to exercise any restraint. Her position tends to be "This is the way I am, if u dont like it, find someone else." Which is infuriating to me.
> 
> One of my major character flaws is that I am easy going to the point of being lazy and unproductive. This has affected our relationship in areas ranging from romance to finance. My wife obviously doesnt like it that Im this way, and it has caused us problems in the past, so I recognize this aspect of my personally as being a defect and I try my best to take appropriate actions to combat it, such as getting more organized, waking up earlier in the morning to run errands and get things done, and making more of an effort to show my wife affection and letting her know how I feel about her.
> 
> But when it comes to her negativity, she doesnt do the same. She is almost protective of it. She thinks that my not liking IT = not liking HER. She doesnt stop to think about how harmful it is to our relationship. She takes no responsibility for the problems her negativity causes.
> 
> I'll give a quick example. A few days ago my wife returned home from a 2 month vacation w/ her 8yo niece visiting family in their home country. It is 10pm and my wife is on the phone w/ her father, Im sitting next to her on the bed working on our laptop. She isnt speaking English so I dont know what shes saying, but its obvious that she is angry b/c of her tone and the loudness of her voice. We live in an apartment building with very thin walls, and our window is wide open b/c its summertime and we live on the 3rd floor so it gets really hot in our place.
> 
> Over the course of about 10min she begins talking louder, and louder, until it gets to the point that she is basically yelling nonstop into the phone. I finally interupt and say calmly, politely, something like "Hon, the volume is getting a little loud." She gives me kind of a dirty look and quiets down.
> 
> Long story short over the next 36 hours we're basically caught up in a terrible fight over this. She feels hurt that I asked her to quiet down, saying that she feels that I am annoyed by the sound of her voice. I assure her that that isnt the case, that it was late and she was talking very loudly and I didnt want the neighbors to complain. She then says why am I so worried about "kissing the neighbors' ass" and that she was talking to her father and so what if she was talking loud. I tell her that I was just trying to bring it to her attention b/c maybe she wasnt aware of how loud her voice was getting. But she was offended to the point of being angry with me, and during the subsequent hours of argument goes into her normal routine of being combative toward me while also claiming to have somehow been victimized by me.
> 
> So given the mundane nature of what started this latest fight, u can imagine how often this kind of thing occurs, and how unbelievably horrible it gets when an actual "serious problem" arises.
> 
> Anybody have any similar experiences with this kind of thing? What is the best way for me to proceed?
> Thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Read it, a few comments.
From what you describe, she has more than a negative disposition or personality traits. She sounds a little mental, maybe bipolar or borderline personality ( some undiagnosied mental condition) since she has so much anger and expresses herself with so much drama.
She also sounds very controlling with the increased yelling louder and louder....
Lots of people are that way. Being your the laid back, almost lazy type, this would give her so much to get mad about, more so if your also prone to procasteration and do not finish what you start.
Your communication styles vary greatly and maybe do not mesh. Unless you both want to find ways to communicate better, your going to have a rough time, filled with lots of drama, yelling and screaming, resentment building up...

Counseling would be a good option, if that proves unhelpful, could be your personalities just don't jive.


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## SeeThomasHowl

Thanks for the comments preso.



preso said:


> Unless you both want to find ways to communicate better, your going to have a rough time, filled with lots of drama, yelling and screaming, resentment building up...


This is whats already happening and it sucks. Unfortunately we cant afford counseling at at present. But that might be our only hope.


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## preso

Maybe you can find some on a sliding scale through an agency that does state funded counseling.

The thing with that though is... unless you both want to make the marriage work, its not going to be worth it.
Some people are just not compatible.


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## WantsHappiness

My husband has anger issues similar to your wife. The smallest thing will set him into a rage and don’t even bother getting into a car with him. Same thing, he acknowledged it but demanded that I just accept it. I know what you’re going through and it’s hard to live with someone feeling like your walking on egg shells all of the time. She needs to realize that this behavior is not okay and that she can control her reactions that lead to the anger. 

You might take a look at the way you communicate to her that this is a problem. She feels like you’re attacking her (maybe even trying to control her) and even if that’s not justified it is how she feels so it needs to be addressed. What about using *I* statements? Tell her how it makes you feel when she gets angry and try approaching it from that angle. 

DH and I are in counseling and it took five sessions for him to come around to agreeing just with the idea that he possesses the ability to control and manage his anger. I’m sorry I don’t have any better answers for you, your wife needs to be the one to decide that this is something she needs to work on. Even if she comes around and tries to change it for you it won’t stick, it needs to be for her. She really can’t be happy living like this either. I’d suggest working on the areas she has asked you to work on and maybe she’ll see the effort you are putting in and it will make her want to do the same.


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## SeeThomasHowl

WantsHappines,
I appreciate the sympatico. Yeah she takes no responsibility for her behavior and takes the position that it is everyone and everything else that is making her behave this way. Whenever I have a point of view about an issue that is different from hers she interprets it in the most outlandishly negative way possible and takes it as a personal attack. She is actually a very sweet person, a very good person, but she just has this other side to her that is almost monstrously negative and irrational and it ends up making me so angry and frustrated that I start yelling and cursing and often just have to leave the house to prevent further escalation. Which just compounds the problem even further. Eventually things go back to normal and everything is great. But then the inevitable happens and the cycle restarts. Neither of us has ever had any form of counseling, but this seems not to be something that we can correct on our own, sadly.


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## aurorazz

She sees few problem in her temper and she expects you to adapt to it. You being the mellower person will get trampled. A few years later you will probably wonder why you're putting up with this **** all along. This is speaking from my personal experience.

I have done a lot of soul searching to see what kind of character can fit well with this kind of woman. I thought me being calm and nurturing can complement her short temper. This only get to incite my own temper more than anything. Maybe it is easier for two angry type of people to yell at each other. Deep down I guess she is looking for a powerful and authoritative figure so that she will be willing submit to.


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## SeeThomasHowl

aurorazz said:


> Deep down I guess she is looking for a powerful and authoritative figure so that she will be willing submit to.


I respectfully disagree. I dont think this disposition is something that can/should be complimented by any personality type, authoritative or otherwise. Just to clarify, I am a pretty mellow guy, but nowhere near a pushover. I have a very low tolerance for bulls**t actually. I just tend to look on the brightside of things, not to panic when things go wrong, and not to sweat the small stuff, while my wifey is the exact opposite.


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## aurorazz

Sorry for the confusion. I have gone off track and I was actually mumbling about my own wife.

I'm really interested to find examples of successful adaption. The fact that the other person largely don't see it as her own personality problem make me hold little hope in improvement. Each time this happens it is only going to wear down your tolerance a bit and this thing will become routine.


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## WantsHappiness

SeeThomasHowl said:


> WantsHappines,
> I appreciate the sympatico. Yeah she takes no responsibility for her behavior and takes the position that it is everyone and everything else that is making her behave this way. Whenever I have a point of view about an issue that is different from hers she interprets it in the most outlandishly negative way possible and takes it as a personal attack. She is actually a very sweet person, a very good person, but she just has this other side to her that is almost monstrously negative and irrational and it ends up making me so angry and frustrated that I start yelling and cursing and often just have to leave the house to prevent further escalation. This just ends up compunding everything. Eventually things go back to normal and everything is great. But then the inevitable happens and the cycle restarts. Neither of us has ever had any form of counseling, but this seems not to be something that we cant correct on our own, sadly.



Yes, yes and yes this too sounds familiar. There is no objectivity when it comes to opinions. External causes are always to blame for severe reactions. It’s not that external item, never is, no question about it… We can’t control everything but we can always control our reactions. My husband is the same way, he also has an extremely kind, caring side. I wouldn’t have married him if he didn’t and unfortunately I’m one of the very few who see the worst. 

I would recommend you take care with your own reactions. No matter what don’t let yourself yell and curse and storm off. By acting the same way she does you’re reinforcing that this is the way you communicate and you’re establishing a pattern. You’re never addressing the root problem, only the symptom problems which are caused by the root problem, which is why you’ll keep going in circles where everything is good for awhile and then it all goes back to the same old. You can do this on your own if you can’t afford counseling but it won’t be easy and it will be harder if she doesn’t commit to working on it with you. Try reading some books about communication in marriage because neither of you are communicating when you’re yelling at one another and the right kind of communication is where it all starts. I don’t have one in particular to recommend, a lot of people here have had good results with The Five Love Languages. And use this forum as much as you need to, to vent and ask for opinions. I've found that you'll get very honest opinions around here.


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## SeeThomasHowl

WantsHappiness said:


> I would recommend you take care with your own reactions. No matter what don’t let yourself yell and curse and storm off. By acting the same way she does you’re reinforcing that this is the way you communicate and you’re establishing a pattern. You’re never addressing the root problem, only the symptom problems which are caused by the root problem, which is why you’ll keep going in circles where everything is good for awhile and then it all goes back to the same old. You can do this on your own if you can’t afford counseling but it won’t be easy and it will be harder if she doesn’t commit to working on it with you. Try reading some books about communication in marriage because neither of you are communicating when you’re yelling at one another and the right kind of communication is where it all starts. I don’t have one in particular to recommend, a lot of people here have had good results with The Five Love Languages. And use this forum as much as you need to, to vent and ask for opinions. I've found that you'll get very honest opinions around here.


This is good advice. And I almost always fail at it. I just get so mad at her for being mad at me. I feel like shes looking for every possible opportunity to blow up instead of thinking of the emotional health of our relationship. And that makes me really frustrated and irate. But I guess I need to find some more patience and restraint somewhere so as not to add more fuel to the fire.


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## Cleanoean

I'm dealing with the same situation. You mentioned that your wife is from another country. Would that country perhaps be, the Philippines? Because my wife is very similar. Heres what I did to help with our situation.


My wife was very much like your wife. Nuts. She had anger issues and would let her anger control her. She used rotten tactics to escape accountability for her actions during arguments. Tactics like ignoring me by not answer questions during the argument. She would also turn her back to me to where I would be stuck talking to the back or side of her head. My wife was not open to any discussion. She would also do or say whatever to justify her actions. This included lying in order to protect herself. 

My wife was a foolish woman. Her fleshly desires ruled her and it almost costed her a marriage. She often reminded me of a foolish woman who is quick to tear down her house over mundane things. 

The thing is with this woman is that her family had no sort of real discipline standards. They let the kids run around unattended and thought it was cute when they disobeyed. As a youth she would ignore people away. To this day she still has those childish angry tactics as a 33 year old woman. She is a FAILURE at communicating respectfully and properly as an adult. Like your wife, my wife is one of the sweetest people in public, until you bring something to her attention about herself. Then she turns into an unreasonable 3 year old. 

I recognize reactions were extreme. Because she would react this way in any situation. She had no balance in her life. She was always from point A to Z with descision making. She had developed a mental block. To fix this chemical problem that had developed, I put my wife on medication. She was convinced that she didn't have anything going on with her, so I told her it was just a health supplement I heard about. In order to persuade her, I had to take it myself for awhile. I was willing to do whatever I had to in order to fix this very terrible problem. 

After being on the St.Johns Herbal mood enhancer for about 2 weeks, our arguments became less and less. When they did arise she was more willing to talk as adults. Give it a try! I hope this helps. I understand the pain you're going through.


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## NextTimeAround

A question for those who have angry spouses: Did you see this side of them before you married them? I ask this since my guy had an EA with someone who was both angry and petty. And until I put the breaks on the relationship, he thought she was such "a good friend."

But looking back on my failed marriage, I was angry about a few things and now I realise from reading this message board, it was due to the fact that my exH never apologised for his behavior with his EA. And in fact, continued to say that for all the rude things that she did to me, "she may have ahd a good reason to do so." 

Just wondering, if any of you could be the source of your spouse's anger.


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## Mavash.

I'm a former angry negative wife from hell. LOL For me it came from childhood abuse and resulting depression/ptsd. Therapy taught me that I was really angry at my parents but chose to take it out on my husband because he was well THERE and was an easy target.

Learning to not take my anger out on others was an easy fix once I saw it and had the desire to change. I went to therapy weekly for about 6 months and that fixed that problem.

Now dealing with the underlying anger took longer. I'm presently in my 3rd round of therapy dealing with that.


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## accept

I know what its like. My wife has the loudest voice and highest pitch of anyone. Many people dont want to talk to her because of this. It really 'grates' on ones nerves. I dont even know anyone else with a voice anything similar. She also has a habit of telling anyone off she can especially children who cant answer back. Although others also find it jolly difficult like shopkeepers, some even refuse to serve her.
I can only say I havent found the answer and have learned to live with it. I dont think it can improve.


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## Cleanoean

NextTimeAround said:


> A question for those who have angry spouses: Did you see this side of them before you married them? I ask this since my guy had an EA with someone who was both angry and petty. And until I put the breaks on the relationship, he thought she was such "a good friend."
> 
> But looking back on my failed marriage, I was angry about a few things and now I realise from reading this message board, it was due to the fact that my exH never apologised for his behavior with his EA. And in fact, continued to say that for all the rude things that she did to me, "she may have ahd a good reason to do so."
> 
> Just wondering, if any of you could be the source of your spouse's anger.




I think my situation was an extension from her previous relationship. My wife was always mean during times of counsel. She hated hearing anything regarding any negative flaw within her. Her entire family is this way. If they offend you, they want you to just accept it. And if you call them on it, they don't apologize. They just make excuses and end up blaming you for the way you feel as if its not their fault. 

My wife suffered a failed relationship with I got with her. She's a very immature and proud woman when it comes to her. If you tell her that she offended you in any way, she'll tell you its your fault. Because of this attitude, its hard for her to forgive others. I've found myself asking for forgiveness for something that she did to me!....when this happened on several occassions I realized what I was working with. Its difficult to reason with extremely proud people. They are unforgiving and unloving people. They care ultimately about one thing, and one thing only. Themselves. Some people are this way because they choose to be. Others are this way because its an imbalance.

My wife IMO is a little of both. Her bad relationship (topped with her very proud nature) caused her to blame everything on the man. It was HIS fault it failed because she's perfect. She can't fail in her eyes. So when I got her, the hatred was an extension from the previous. I could talk about this all day, but hopefully you can see what it was I was working with. A bitter angry PROUD woman. TERRIBLE COMBINATION!


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## Uptown

Clean, welcome to the TAM forum. The behaviors you describe -- angry and bitter attitude, verbal abuse, blame-shifting, child-like behavior, black-white thinking, and always being the "blameless victim" -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Everyone on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if they are emotionally healthy. These traits become a problem for a woman only when they are sufficiently strong -- as may be the case for your W -- to undermine her ability to sustain LTRs. 

Of course, only a professional can determine whether those traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having the full blown disorder. Yet, even when the traits fall well below that diagnostic threshold and are only at a moderate to strong level, they can easily damage a marriage and make your life difficult. 

It therefore is important that you be able to spot the red flags exhibited by BPDers (i.e., folks having moderate to strong BPD traits -- even well below the diagnostic threshold). I therefore suggest you read about these traits to see if most sound very familiar with respect to your W's behaviors.


Cleanoean said:


> To this day she still has those childish angry tactics.... she turns into an unreasonable 3 year old.


If your W is a BPDer, her emotional development was frozen at the age of 3 or 4 -- leaving her stuck with low self esteem, tremendous anger, and the ego defenses of a young child. She nonetheless would have the intellect, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full grown woman.


> She was always from point A to Z with decision making.


This all-or-nothing thinking is called "black-white thinking." It is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. If it is frequently occurring in your W, it will be most evident in the way she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" (i.e., as "with me" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme ("A," as you say) to the other ("Z") -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor mistake or idle comment. 

This B-W thinking also will be evident in frequent uses of extreme expressions such as "you always" and "you never." The result is that there is no middle ground or grey area for classifying other people -- because BPDers are extremely uncomfortable with ambiguities and having strong mixed feelings.


> She's a very immature and proud woman when it comes to her.


If your W is really a BPDer, she is filled with self-loathing and shame that she has been carrying since early childhood. The appearance of pride, then, would just be a part of the false self image she is projecting. With BPDers, it is this self loathing that explains why they are unwilling to own up to making mistakes or having flaws. The last thing a BPDer wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself.


> Her fleshly desires ruled her and it almost costed her a marriage.


Another hallmark of BPDers is the lack of impulse control. As I said, they generally have the emotional development of a young child. Because they don't consider the logical consequences of their actions, they often will make childish, impulsive decisions.


> Her bad relationship ... caused her to blame everything on the man.... So when I got her, the hatred was  an extension from the previous.


If your W has strong BPD traits, her strong anger is not an extension from her previous failed relationship. Rather, it is an extension from her early childhood, at which time she likely experienced a trauma. Indeed, 70% of BPDers report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.


> To fix this chemical problem that had developed, I put my wife on medication.


If your W's mood changes are eliminated by the medication, you are not describing BPD mood changes but, rather, _bipolar disorder_ mood changes. I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found several clear differences between the two disorders.

One difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. 

A second difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Moreover, if the BPDer "acts in" instead of "acting out," you will not see rages and temper tantrums. Instead, you will see her punishing you with cold withdrawal and passive aggressive remarks. This seems more consistent with the behavior you describe (e.g., where your W keeps shutting you out by turning her back on you when you are trying to talk with her).

A third difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. These event-triggered changes seem consistent with the mood changes you are describing, Clean.

A fourth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry. This is why I said earlier that, if your W's moods are successfully treated by the meds, it is extremely unlikely she is suffering from BPD mood changes.

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This extreme form of meanness and vindictiveness seems consistent with your description of your W as "mean and bitter."

Finally, a sixth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when a person does not trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will. 

Yet, despite these six clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that a substantial portion of BPD sufferers (about 25%) also have the bipolar disorder. 

Clean, if you would like to read more about BPD traits, the best-selling book on the subject (targeted to the partners of BPDers) is _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ Alternatively, an easy place to start reading on this forum is my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion about Maybe's angry W rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you or point you to good online resources. Take care, Clean.


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## memyselfandi

I'm sure your wife is a wonderful loving person yet her out of control temper needs to stop. You ask her nicely while she continues to badger you for doing that as SHE needs to be in control of it. Sounds like she just won't let things go.

Irregardless of your laid back loving personality, you need to set some boundaries and tell her that you will no longer tolerate her behavior. If she has outbursts and you correct her...discuss it..find an answer to it..and then the discussion is over. Walk away from her if you have to. If there's nobody to listen to her outbursts, maybe she'll stop them as I believe it's the attention and control she's looking for.


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## memyselfandi

Might I mention also that some people just don't like to be wrong? It's always someone else's fault and they will NEVER EVER accept the blame regardless if it's staring them in the face. 

I'm not sure if it's a confidence issue...or a sense of entitlement that rules are made for everyone BUT them.


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