# Is this adultery?



## Bmac44 (Oct 31, 2017)

I think I already know the answer to my question, I just need some reassurance. I am married to an alcoholic. For the most part she is functional (goes to work, can take care the kids, most people would not guess it), but if you are married to her or spend enough time with her you see it. While she does have moments of sobriety (she has been to aa meetings; six months was her longest period of not drinking (except when she was pregnant)) and moments of controlled drinking (stopping after one or two drinks), there have lots of times of out of control drinking, drinking and driving, etc... I have been an enabler in this, I see that now more clearly than ever. I don't know if any of you can relate, but to say it's hard being married to an alcoholic is an understatement. 

About a month ago we both did something stupid and hurtful to each other. I have owed up to my mistakes, apologized, and have sought counseling to work on myself. I want to go to couples' therapy, but she is not interested. She refuses to acknowledge any wrong doing (I think it's part of the disease) and blames everything on me. She essentially refuses to talk about it. When the incident first happened she iced me, meaning she did not speak to me for ten days, despite my attempts, so I decided to give her space. 

10 days after the incident fell on a Friday (despite her not talking to me (unless it portained to the kids; we have three little ones) we still live in the house together)) she was going out to eat dinner with a girlfriend. They live an hour apart so they were meeting at a place in between. I knew it was going to be bad because she would be drinking (I always tried to protect her when she drank) and she would be on her own in a bad state of mind. She spent a lot of time getting ready (more than one would do if they were just seeing a girlfriend) so I had a bad feeling. 

Before she left I noticed she was not wearing her ring, when I asked her about she told me that she took it off a few days ago (again never made an effort to say something to me like I can't get over what happened, I'm done with us or I'm taking off my ring; I had to notice it and ask her). I asked her what that meant, she said that she didn't know, but she needed space. She left and we did not see her again until Sunday night. I did not text or call her, I was going to give her her space. I received one text from her Saturday morning and one Sunday morning. They both were about our kid's activities being cancelled, but they were proof of life. Although I was giving her her space, I was checking up on her. 

We have the same cellphone provider and we share the same Apple ID, so our phones are sinked. Any calls she makes or gets shows up on my call log, her web searches on her phone show up in my user history, and I can track her location through her phone (I know I am a stalker, but she never deletes her stuff or uses the private setting; either she doesn't know how or wants to get caught). I had seen some bad searches prior to this. She got a kik account and was researching birth control, she has been off it for years and our sex life has been nonexistent (her choice). There were some strange phone numbers that weekend and she was at some interesting locations. I am assuming she was with someone, but I don't know that to be 100% true, but the signs point to it. She did meet her friend for dinner, but the her friend left and she stayed. 

She called me right before she came home that Sunday night. She finally talked to me. She said she had three things to say, she told her three things, they were mainly her reasons why she was angry at me. The worst thing she said was that I am not the person she thought I was. I could tell she had been drinking and she drove home in that condition (she drove a couple of times that weekend when she shouldn't have). 

The next morning she asked me to stay home because she didn't think she should be alone and I did. I hoped she would want to talk, but she just spent the day alone and in the basement. I didn't say anything about her being gone all weekend, I was just glad she was alive. Her friend called me that day (not the one she had dinner with) and told me she worried about her. She had seen my wife the day before and said she was in bad shape and is coming down from a manic episode. She did not betray my wife's touch but from she was saying it seemed to confirm my suspicions. 

She was worried that my wife's meds, plus the drinking were really messing with her brain and was worried that her decision making was really compromised (my does not like sharing her medical information, I knew she took something for anxiety and recently started taking ADHA medicine, but I did not know the extent. I finally did an inventory, she takes five different medications daily, most are for anxiety, depression, and ADHD. All of them say don't take with alcohol. At this point I really do not think her brain is functioning properly. 

That week she did not work, she got really sick and got all sorts of antibiotics and steroids and other stuff to make her better. She also got bottles of wine. That week I found around four bottles of wine stashed around the house. When she was sick she did occasionally ask me for stuff, which I did to help her. I kept the kids away from her so she could rest. The tension between us was not as bad. She talked to me more, never about our issue or fun banter, but it was noticeably different. I thought maybe she might be thawing. 

That Sunday she finally went back to work. When she came home that she sat with us in the family room (not next to me, but in the same room) and watched tv. I noticed she was on her phone a lot. We all went up to bed (we obviously have been sleeping in separate rooms, but with our kids that actually happened a lot before all of this). I couldn't sleep and came downstairs and looked at her browsing history. I could see that she created two online dating accounts and was actively searching. I checked out her profile, she listed herself as separated, looking to date but nothing serious. She had never said anything about seeing other people to me. I was really hurt and scared that it was over for good, but also confused. It was less than three weeks since the incident and she was already looking to date. She has been married to me for ten years, according to her before the incident she loved me very much and was not ever thinking about leaving me. Even if she wanted to end the marriage the last then she needs to be doing is dating, right? She should be focused on the children, she should be getting herself help (at this point she had still not seen or talked to anyone (professionally I mean). I would hope that she would at least want to try to save the marriage, even if it didn't work out, at least try. 

(In case you are wondering what the incident was here it is. I felt distant from her, I was stressed out by her drinking, I wondered if she really meant it when she said she still wanted to be with but just had no sex drive. So I did something stupid, I gave a guy I had been talking to her number to see if it was me or if she would go for someone else. I felt confident nothing would happen, I thought maybe the attention from someone else might flatter her and get her out of her funk (I now see how stupid this was, but it did straighten me out and now I am moving to get her some help). To my surprise and horror she responded to him and they started sexting. I was hurt and jealous. I told him to back off, but he didn't. I finally told her I knew, but she lied when she said she was done. It went on for a week and I finally couldn't take it anymore so I confessed everything to her. I apologized, told her why I did it and how stupid I was and she just got pissed and quit talking to me and started doing everything I have written. They never met in person, but I just saw from the phone records they texted few times after I told her everything. I am seeing a therapist now in case you were wondering and I need to start going to al-anon.) 

After I saw the dating sites I went upstairs to talk to her I didn't mention the dating, I just asked her if I was fooling myself for thinking we still had a chance. She said that she still can't believe I did that. She said that she never saw a world without us together, that we were suppose to grow old together. I now I ruined it (see blaming everything on me; nothing is her fault, the voice of an addict). She said I put her safety in jeopardy by giving her number out to a stranger and I gambled on our children's future by putting all of this in motion. I agreed with her and told her again I was sorry, but no apologies from her. She said that I was not person she thought I was (I think she saw me as this perfect guy who would always protect her and I ruined that image). She said that what I did creeped her out (when I confessed, I confessed everything, I told her I use to go online and chat with other guys about her (very creepy I know, but I was depressed and undersexed, but no excuses, still gross and creepy (I am done with that by the way)) and she didn't think she could ever be attracted to me physically again. She said that she did not know if she could ever get passed it. I told her that I can't change her mind or the past. I said all I can do is work on me. I told she needs to see someone (she saw a counselor the next day, but just that one time). I said that my hope is that she would consider couples counseling because we have a lot at stake (I didn't think she has really thought about what a divorce would mean). She said right now she couldn't sit down with me and talk about it. The last thing she said was that in her mind we are separated. 


So since then we have just been going on like we have been since the incident. We are civil to each other and the kids have no clue anything is wrong. It has been just over a week since she started online dating. Looking over her browsing history she has bed s little obsessive over it. The one site lets me into her account sometimes. 

She is 42, but still gorgeous, she has gotten lots of attention. She seems to have no fear about giving out her number. I can only imagine how many texts she has gotten, but I can see that she has talked to some. She is good at lying, part of the disease. Money is tight, but she lied about the amount of her last paycheck and pocketed $150 (I found her pay stub, she is not good at this). I think she went on a date Thursday and she took someone to a friend's party on Saturday and then slept over at his place (don't know what all happened, but I am assuming the worse). 

Based on recent google searches I know she is on birth control now (at least she won't get pregnant). Her dates must not have been so great because after a few days away from the sites, she back on them and making new friends. 

If you have read all of this you must be thinking that I am an idiot that the marriage is clearly over and I need to divorce. I agree but I really do not think her brain is working, this is not like her. I am meeting a lawyer tomorrow. I have found some treatement centers for her. Even if we do not work out, she needs help before she kills herself because she is still drinking and there is no way her doctors know this or else they wouldn't keep giving her pills. If nothing else she is my children's mother. I have talked with some people and I am giving her an ultimatum on Friday. Either she agrees to get treatment for the alcohol and stop seeing other guys or I proceed with filing papers. I don't want a divorce but I can't keep living this way and I have to do what is best for my kids.

So back to my original question, is she justified to be seeing other guys? I know the answer is no, but I wanted others' input. I know she will say in my mind we were separated so it was okay, but we are still living under the same roof and her mind is not the same as a legal separation. Please tell me her rational will not look good in court. I want to be the primary care taker of our kids if it gets that far so I have been documenting everything she has been doing. I am correct in stating that a rationale person wound not be doing what she is doing regardless of me actions? 

Plus she is doing all of this on the dl, if I had not been snooping I wound never know, isn't her secrecy a sign of guilt? Sorry this was so long, I hope you read it all, if I seemed like I was making light of any of it, I am sorry. I am not taking this lightly, I am devastated by it, it is just a coping method.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

I can't get through all that. If you could break it up into paragraphs I'll give it another try.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Uh, very soon you will get some complaints about your posting. We call it a 'Wall of Text'.
Please use the edit icon and split up your first post, into manageable paragraphs, making it readable.

I am an Martian and can skim and scan just fine. Other folks here stumble bumble, their eyes crossing, then their mind's eye goes shut.
..............................................................................................

On your post...

Ahem, you are an Enabler. A nice guy. A man who can live without sex with/from your wife.
This is bad.
You are your' own worst enemy.

She has already cheated.
She is a junkie and a drunk.
She is suffering from depression.
She has a husband who is powerless and frankly impotent.
She needs a firm hand and she is not getting it from you.

I would just leave, let her spiral down. Taken, swirling down, taken advantage of by a man, a Kik dude named Fast Eddy. Eddy, a Whirlpool from Hell.
Taken prone and pumped, later merging into sludge.
She needs to reach bottom. She cannot get her footing in mid-flight, mid-fall.

I know you love her. And that is your' weakness. 
Reserve your love for someone that reciprocates it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

OMG! The "Enter Key" is your friend. 

I read the last few lines only. 

She's broken and needs to fix herself. That doesn't include you holding her hand. 

She's gone and hooking up with other men, so she doesn't want you. 

Most importantly... What's wrong with you that this is the woman you chose? 

If you want someone to read that wall of text, go back and break it up into paragraphs.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I don't know about a "rational" person, but an unselfish person who doesn't have an addictive personality wouldn't be doing these things. And, it has nothing to do with you.

And, yes, see a lawyer and get her away from your kids as much as possible. Alcohol and drug addiction are some prime determinants in whether a parent is "unfit". Get the advice of your lawyer, but
when I faced the problem, my XW was not addicted, she was only an adulterer. In my mind, that was as "unfit" as it gets for parenting, but my lawyer told me that the courts wouldn't declare that without some evidence of drugs, alcohol, or felony commission. 

I'm telling you this because it may be a waste of your time and money trying to document her adultery. Concentrate on the addiction and her associated behaviors. I'll bet that al-anon has some good info on this.



Bmac44 said:


> is she justified to be seeing other guys?


No. Not when she is married to you. See, in our great "wisdom" (and more so, our great concupiscence) we have "decriminalized" adultery. But Almighty God put adultery in the same list with theft, perjury, and murder. My opinion, compared to His, is quite irrelevant, and so is the opinion of self-centered, womanizing lawmakers. 

And, it is irrelevant whether her "brain is working right". That is not a place you should go, because your problem here is not related to that. If some guy is beating on my kids, I will not waste any time trying to determine whether his "brain is working right". Because, I guarantee when I get through with him, his brain isn't going to work at all. I'm going to put a 2X4 through his skull into his brain of questionable function.

That is the situation at hand for you. Your kids are being damaged by a self-centered alcoholic adulterer. She is, as Dr. Phil says, "...writing on the slate of their lives...." with her behavior.

Don't waste your breath on any "ultimatum". To an addict, the substance or behavior of choice is the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN LIFE. An addict will choose his/her drug over her family, her husband, her children, God, doesn't matter who or how much those who love her want her to choose more wisely.

Just go the lawyer and get your kids away from her.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Two things...

1) Holy Wall Of Text, Batman! (Seriously, I read less than half of that.)

2) Probably.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Confused_42?



Confused_42 said:


> If any of you have been following this thread, there is something you should know. Everything I have written is true, but I am the husband in this story, not the wife. I wanted to get a different perspective on all of this. I know what I did was incredibly stupid and I really screwed everything up. The one thing I did not mention is that she is an alcoholic and her drinking has put me through a lot over the years. I am not trying to excuse me actions, but before you judge me please consider what I have been through over the last five and even longer is you throw in the drinking and shading stuff she did in the beginning (also I am not 100% sure she slept with someone last weekend, but all signs point to it). I know now there were several better options for me to take. I feel so stupid for doing what I did and I don't know if I can forgive myself. Maybe many you are right, maybe I was dumb for sticking around, I just had hope that she would snap out of it someday. Despite all the bad stuff, there was a lot of good. I feel horrible for my three children, I think I ruined their childhood. I know I want to work through it and will try anything, but I think she is moving on. It only happened three weeks ago and she already has an add on match.com. She told me that I am not the person she thought I was and she is disgusted by the idea of me chatting about with other guys. She doesn't think she can ever get passed it. She also is angry that I gave a stranger her number because he might have harmed her. I agree with everything she says. She also told me that she never envisioned a world in which we were not together. That killed me because she did not act like it, but also because as bad as things were she still believed in us and now I killed that. I think I could get past it if it was just us. I think I could find someone to make happy, someone without all the drama, someone that would appreciate me and care about my happiness and well being, but there are two things holding me back and it is killing me. One is that despite everything I still really love her. When she is not drinking she is the most amazing woman. The other is our children. I can't imagine them growing up in a broken home, they still so young. I am tearing up now just writing that. I know I should have thought of that before I did what I did. I have so much clarity now and I now know what I should have done, but now it is too late. My kids are my world and I am the one who spends the most time with (she is a wonderful mother, except when she drinks) and I can't imagine losing them. Plus all they know is mommy and daddy together, how could I have been so selfish and stupid. Sorry for rambling, I just have no one to talk to about this. I am seeing a therapist, but it is only once a week and it is hard going a week and not being about to talk about it.


Stop the deceptions. 

Let's just stick to a frank discussion and you'll get the help you asked for. 

You need that. Your children need that. 

Best


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I am sorry you are here.

You are married to an addict.

This only gets worse.

You strike me as severely codependent.

I would start there.

Read these to books as soon as you can.

Codependent No More and Codependency for Dummies.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes, it's adultery. Yeppers. 

She may just have seen what you did as paving the way for her. Pandoras box was opened. It's wrong, still, for her to be doing what she's doing. I'd advise you to not have any sexual relations with her as she's exposing you to who knows what. Especially, if she's drunk. Her inhibitions are lower and she's more likely to have unprotected sex. 

She's checked out of the marriage. She's angry with you. I know what it's like to be married to an alcoholic. At this point, she surely isn't going to be receptive to any sort of treatment. Wanting to be sober and taking steps towards that has to come from within the person. Don't enable her and detach with love. Check out Al-Anon; it'll help you understand better. I don't know how old the kids are, but if I were you, I'd start documenting for child custody purposes. Do you want an alcoholic that drinks & drives to be caring for your kids?


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Sounds like you tried getting her help. She didn't respond well, and made things worse. Divorce her and ensure your children's safety.

Saying her brain is just messed up is an excuse. Your relationship won't recover. Get out.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes it is adultery, without a doubt, and NO it is NOT justified, it never is.

What you did (re the "incident") was extremely low and deceptive, but SHE is the one who responded to it! SHE needs to take ownership that SHE is very much in the wrong! Just because some guy messaged her does not mean she had to start a sexting relationship, she is a married woman and should have shut it down from the very first message. 

Tell her you want a divorce and that she needs to find a new place to live. Make sure you go for full custody of those kids, as well as supervised visitation, because she will be putting them in danger every time they are with her.


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## Barth (Aug 9, 2017)

> Most importantly... What's wrong with you that this is the woman you chose? 

She is a manipulative, selfish lair... he believes in love and all that....

The short answer to your question, "TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT".

And my advice, get practical, get your priorities in order and do what needs to be done.

And as a side issue, the courts are a corrupt mess, so avoid them.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm sorry, I tried to read everything you put down but could not make it all the way through without feeling so bad for you.

While we do not have both sides of the story here - why are you still trying?

I hope you get some clarity and be strong for yourself and your kids.

You can get through this, many people have.

Start the 180 (it will show up on searches) and look out for you and your kids.

Your "wife" has chosen what she wants so you need to do the same for you.

Good luck.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Stop trying to justify her actions for her!

You are the authority on what is acceptable behavior in the marriage. For me, everything you've written would be a deal breaker. For others, they would stay in the marriage. Obviously you are deeply bothered by her drinking, her drunk driving, and her going outside the marriage on dating sites and (certainly) having sex with other men.

It surprises me you weren't livid about her sexting with the guy you set her up with. You may have baited her, but she ran with it full speed. Let's look at this another way. If a hot woman propositioned you in a situation where you believed you had no chance of getting caught, would it be somehow ok for you to have sex with her? Of course not! Regardless of how that hot woman came to be there, it would be wrong for you to have sex with her. So it is with your wife. She was wrong to sext the guy even though you set the trap.

Anyhow it seem clear to me your W has done numerous things which are unacceptable to you. That is enough. And as a disclaimer, I think almost everybody would feel the same way. Your W's addictions and possible psychological conditions do not excuse her behavior, nor do they somehow require you to put up with her disloyal behavior.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am going to tell you like others here...FILE!!!!!! for divorce, not only is it cheating...but she is disrespecting you and walking all over you...time to put your big boy pant on and file and stop making excuses, stop being a freaking doormat, stop being everything you are and be a man and file DO not stay for the kids...stop that, that is an excuse.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Bmac44 said:


> She got a kik account and was researching birth control, she has been off it for years and our sex life has been nonexistent (her choice).


Soooooooo if she's not having sex with you then who do you think the birth control is for?

Let me clue you in, if she's googling birth control, she's ALREADY ****ing some not named @Bmac44

And obviously it's unprotected sex because cheater sex always is. Hence, the need to acquire some.



Bmac44 said:


> If you have read all of this you must be thinking that I am an idiot that the marriage is clearly over and I need to divorce.


I mean.... how okay are you with some guy bending your wife over and pounding her doggystyle?

If the answer is "not okay", then yeaaaaahhhh. I agree with your statement. Sorry dude, she's a ho.

Alcoholic or not, don't hide behind excuses. Booze doesn't make you do anything you don't want to do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Bmac44

Please read the post at the below link... in the thread that you posted under another user name where you were pretending to be your wife.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/398418-not-sure-what-do.html


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Shes a dunk cheater.

Now you know. Call a lawyer.

Or forever waste your time playing silly raindeer games.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is something profoundly creepy about a man giving his wife's phone number to another man to have the other man hit on his wife. While your wife might have been wrong in carrying on with the guy, so were you in setting the whole thing up. And I get why your wife says that you are not the person she thought you were.

Your wife is messed up based on your description of her.

But you are pretty messed up for what you did as well. 

My bet is that she has not been happy in your relationship for a long time and this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm not sure why either of you want to be in this relationship.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

Of course you don't want divorce; you want her to recover. But she doesn't want to recover. Addicts use because the substance they use is good. It gives them what they want. Always remember that. They are not people eternally seeking a way to stop using. One day, it's possible something may happen to make them want to, but right now, she just wants to drink and do the things being drunk allow her to do. 

You can't fix her. No one ever fixed someone else. No one ever made someone else try to get fixed. It is entirely beyond your control. She may one day recover, but you can't make it happen, nor can you really expect it to happen. She may drink herself to death. You can't stop her, and you really can't expect her to stop. You can only save yourself. 

It is a difficult thing to abandon the person you once loved enough to marry. And yes, you're supposed to say it's a disease, and indeed it is. But don't pretend that calling it a disease makes it the same as cancer or heart failure. Cancer patients want to get well. People with heart failure want care for their hearts. Those don't corrupt like her disease. If you could do something to help, I'd say be a man and do your best to do your duty. But it's not like that. A beast is loose. Get away from it. Get the kids away from it. Or do you want to put all these burdens of guilt and misery on them to share?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I was not going to post, because I think this situation is rather hopeless. 

My wife is diagnosed as a pathological liar. The shrinks say it is due to childhood traumas. No one seems to think it can be cured. It has been likened to alcoholism in that it may be possible to control it.

We have many measures in place to make it impossible for Mary to lie to me. Essentially I never ask her anything. I control everything, I monitor everything, she does not need to tell me anything because I already know. Mary is more than 100% onboard with all the controls her doctors and I have put in place.

Your wife is so completely out of control I just do not understand how you can fail to leave her. Take your children and leave. Your wife must want her disease to be controlled for there to be any chance of success.

You two are so far beyond that it is way past time to give up.


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## Bmac44 (Oct 31, 2017)

Last Friday I gave her an ultimatum. I talked with some of her friends and family as well some of my family. I let everyone know what has been going on. I even spoke with her doctor's office about her drinking while on the medications they are prescribing. I found some treatment centers for her. Everyone was on board that she needed help. I told her she needs to stop drinking and go to a treatment center. I also told her it was not okay to be dating other people, I told her she needs to stop dating. If she did not agree I told her I was going to file the paperwork. She was mad at me for involving other people. She said that if she does have a problem i am not the one to be talking to her about it. Finally she said that she could date because in her mind we are separated. I met with a lawyer. It was a free consultation; got lots of good information; however, she was way too expensive. So now I am looking for a cheaper attorney and seeing if I qualify for any legal aid. I opened a separate checking account and moved some funds over and I cancelled her credit card. She is still on dating sites and talking to other guys and going on dates. She has gone to two aa meetings, but I think it more to show people that I am crazy and she is dealing with things. Thank you all for your advise and your honesty.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Bmac, you tried, but apparently she is not ready to grow up and you will have to be the adult through this divorce. This will also demonstrate to her family and friends you were willing to try but she wasn't. in the end it will her loss. Good Luck


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## Bmac44 (Oct 31, 2017)

I was worried her family would be angry with me, but they are actually on my side and very disappointed in her.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You should not be worried what her family might think.

Take care of yourself and your children. 

Be angry, get rid of that woman who does not care about anything but her drinking and her own fun. Stop defending her.


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