# Is forgiveness really possible?



## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Hello everyone,

Been awhile since I came back here. So it's been 2.5 months since DDay.

My partner has been trying to do everything she can to acquire my trust and forgiveness since that day.

She has completely abandonned all the people who were bad influences on her, she's been completely transparent with all details of her cell text conversations, facebook messages, e-mail. 

She's changed her life around. She got a new and satisfying job, she's going back to school to further accelerate her career. She's made a new entourage and introduced me to them.

She's also made alot of thoughtful attempts towards me and has communicated alot more and better. In summary, she's really trying to make an effort to pull things together as much as possible. She has fufilled everything needed that would make me continue on things with her.

When we are together, I enjoy my time with her again like everything was back to normal and happy. But not everything is perfect. 

When she is gone, I think/daydream bad things about her. I see other women and think that there are so many decent girls that why do I need to be stuck with the one that cheated? Often I have bad nightmares about what she did or nightmares about her cheating again. I wake up, happy that they were just dreams, but they feel so real when I'm in them and that feeling carries on throughout my day.

It's like my conscious has accepted and worked through this dilemma, but my sub-conscious won't let me. It has only been 2.5 months, so maybe I need more time. 

I've literally chastised her and pummeled her with questions for 2 months straight and she's made alot of effort to make this work. My question is for those who chose to reconcile. Did you guys have similar feelings? Is it normal? Do you still think that reconciling is possible? How long did it take you or what stage of reconciling are you at?

Thanks for anyone who replies


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## shecheatedVA (Nov 11, 2012)

I ask myself the same question. I recently found out my spouse cheated as well. I have the exact same thoughts. When we're in the groove, things seem so normal but once I'm alone my thoughts start wandering again. Part of me wants to believe that we'll be able to reconcile but there's another piece that just wants to cut ties and start my new life without her. 

I've read posts on some other sites where the title was "I cheated on my boyfriend" only to find out they were at a party and kissed another guy. How I wish that was the level of cheating and my girl felt that kind of guilt. It makes me obviously want someone that wouldn't cheat but at least give me someone who feels extreme guilt about kissing and considers that cheating. I keep saying there are so many decent women out there but for me, my family and kids make me want to work it out though I'd rather just leave. 

I've also brought on the questions..lots of them. Sometimes I thought the answer would be something else but turns out it's not what I wanted to hear. It's screwed me up and I feel bitter but know that even if I left, I'd have to fix myself before these feelings went away.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yes, it is. And I speak from personal experience.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Actually MattMatt, i've heard that you have quite the interesting story. Is there somewhere I can read it in another thread? (to save you the time of going through it all again.)


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> It has only been 2.5 months, so maybe I need more time.


Oh, you'll definitely need a lot more time!!! At 2.5 months, I was barely out of the shock stage!

And yes, you can forgive. And trust. The triggers fade, the mind movies go away, the bad dreams go away, positive replaces the negative, over time. 

Your wife is doing the right things. But it will take a long time for you and your relationship to heal.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm in an ultra-cynical mood because of my own situation. I think it is impossible to regain the same level of trust as before. So you have to start fresh - with a brand new relationship with your current partner, so to speak. Your old relationship is dead, so don't try to revive it.

The good news for you is your partner seems to be willing to do the necessary work. But 2.5 months is not long. That is the reality. I went through some false R's that were 5 - 6 months long. All it takes is one night out, one phone call with the wrong influence or person and you're going to be back to square one. Meanwhile the loyal spouse convinces himself/herself that next time will be different... next time the R will be permanent. I've done this myself.

Decide now, in your own mind how many slipups you will tolerate. Zero? One? Two?

I know it's tough to walk away from a person you love. I am still having trouble doing this - although it becomes easier with time. But make sure you have clear boundaries (I didn't do this) and then stick with them.

Edit - so what I mean is forgiveness is possible, because it is up to you. But there is a difference between forgiveness and total trust. A relationship without TOTAL trust is not really a relationship worth having.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Genuine forgiveness does not have to depend on her or what she does. It depends on you. Accept that the past cannot be changed. That is the first step. 

Don't confuse forgiveness with forgetting or 'letting off the hook'. 

Plenty of crime victims forgive their perpetrators. They still testify against them and advocate for retribution. But they forgive - it releases them from holding resentment. 

Forgiveness is a gift as is reconciliation. Forgiveness is as much a gift to yourself as it is for her. Reconciliation can also be a gift for both but mostly for her - since you CAN choose another path.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I'm in an ultra-cynical mood because of my own situation. I think it is impossible to regain the same level of trust as before. So you have to start fresh - with a brand new relationship with your current partner, so to speak. Your old relationship is dead, so don't try to revive it.
> 
> The good news for you is your partner seems to be willing to do the necessary work. But 2.5 months is not long. That is the reality. I went through some false R's that were 5 - 6 months long. All it takes is one night out, one phone call with the wrong influence or person and you're going to be back to square one. Meanwhile the loyal spouse convinces himself/herself that next time will be different... next time the R will be permanent. I've done this myself.
> 
> ...


At this point I have a tolerance of zero slip-ups, once shame on you, twice shame on me so to speak. I find it difficult enough to deal with already. Another time would destroy everything she was trying to accomplish. I was surprised at myself for considering to Reconcile after it happened, but she really has tried to do all the textbook reconciling steps. If she cheated again it would mean all she tried to do meant nothing.

I have also had pretty clear boundaries, but the triggers are killing me. I also know she feels a little hopeless sometimes, because despite all her efforts, I still trigger...She understands, but it is still frusterating for her, because she dosen't know if I'll ever truly forgive or trust her again and I don't know either.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> Actually MattMatt, i've heard that you have quite the interesting story. Is there somewhere I can read it in another thread? (to save you the time of going through it all again.)


Thank you for thinking of that! It's 1.45am, I am up too late, but here is the link http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...find-out-about-infidelity.html?highlight=find

There are other bits of the story elsewhere on CWI


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

2.5 months isn't much time. If she keeps doing what she needs to, the bad thoughts will fade. Trust will build. The dreams will turn into good ones.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I can give you the perspective of a husband who has been in R with my WW for a year. I too had the same thoughts as you. Still do to a degree. But my wife has demonstrated consistent remorse. To the point that there were times I almost hoped she would slip up and show she wasn't; so that I could feel better about ending the marriage during those lows when I felt I made the wrong decision.

Those feelings have reduced over time, but they still ebb and flow. I haven't forgiven my wife yet. I'm still in a wait and see mode. But right now I'm content enough to stay with her and hope for the best.

It can take years for a BS to get past something like this. Your reactions are normal. Accept nothing but true remorse from your wife and take things day by day, week by week. As someone on this forum advised me once, there's no shame in walking away, knowing you gave an honest effort to salvage your marriage.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

You may choose to forgive it, maybe even "overlook" it, but I don't think you will ever forget it.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I think forgiveness is not only possible but really needs to happen for you... for us all. I think it is the key to releasing what has happened to us. Their cheating was all about them, no matter what they tell us. Forgiveness is all about us, FOR us. Sometimes, even to forgive ourselves for giving them another chance, or seeming to drag our feet as we stand back up. 

Can you hear me trying to convince myself? LOL! It's a journey, but one I can get behind...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Lighteninghelix:

You need to get to the root of his cheating and address it so you can feel more secure. As other people already said, it's up to you to forgive and only you know if you can or you want to. Regarding trust. You will most likely never trust your husband the way you once did. Nor, should you. Your distrust is a protective mechanism.


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

It is early days so to speak, but lots of reassuring responses above me! I resonate with badmemory; I too have found R incredibly hard and have also at times desperately almost wanted my WH to mess up - walking away or separating would be easier than R imo.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Lighteninghelix:
> 
> You need to get to the root of his cheating and address it so you can feel more secure. As other people already said, it's up to you to forgive and only you know if you can or you want to. Regarding trust. You will most likely never trust your husband the way you once did. Nor, should you. Your distrust is a protective mechanism.


I mentioned it was a she (and me a guy), but I get what you mean. The thing is I "want" to, I really do, otherwise I wouldn't still be with her. My sub-conscious is really fighting back and making that difficult for me. I guess I wanted to know from others if those triggers and mind movies and all of those things will fade away. I know I couldn't stay with her forever if those things won't eventually stay in check.

I consider myself a pretty reasonable and open-minded person, so I thought that I could really get through this. It seems alot more difficult than I originally thought though. I often take very small things as signals that she is still untrustworthy, I chastise her alot if she is slightly late coming home from work (like 30 minutes) or get angry if she dosen't promptly answer my texts or calls. I go stir crazy. I am so-called hypervigilant to an extreme and get very pumped up at the idea of her still cheating while on the surface she is trying everything to make it work for us.

Like I formulate incredibly unlikely scenarios in my head. It drives me to go to her work and places she goes to unannounced as a "surprise". Simply because I'm so paranoid. It certainly is starting to take over my life a little.

Funny thing is how all of those bad thoughts and feelings immediately fade away when we are together and we laugh and enjoy our time together just like we always did. We call and text each other alot and laugh and make each others day. Also, we are kind of in the hysterical bonding period, so we are constantly having over-the-top hot sex and sexting each other like mad. So it makes it hard to really understand what my feelings are and what I should do.

I've been divided into two different people, like a modern day jeckyl and hyde. I especially get worried and paranoid, when we get mad at each other or fight. Just because she is trying to do the proper things for reconcilation, dosen't mean she doesn't still get mad at me sometimes or at least frusterated, when I trigger. Usual couple arguments happen as well.

She knows that she needs to make certain changes, but I know that she would secretly love to rug-sweep. Who wouldn't blame her? It's alot easier on her and alot less work and less time. But we both know that is irresponsible and won't ever mend things to an acceptable state.

So, to the others, is this all sound familiar?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sounds VERY familiar.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> So, to the others, is this all sound familiar?


If you read the past posts here you will see that all your doing and feeling is totally normal as is your wife's desire to rug sweep. I wanted to rug sweep to. But you, she can't. 

You are on 2.5 months out. You are going to get even worse in the next 7 months or so before you get better. It's normal. It normally takes 1 to 5 years to get rid of the pain, paranoia, mind movies and the paranoia will never go completely away. Hurt spouses of affairs often suffer from PTSD, do a search and read the symptoms and signs such as paranoia, hypervigilance, triggers, etc. 

Talk to the people here who have recovered. Sigma is one I have seen posting and there are likely many others or post a thread asking reconciled couples to respond. It will help you see you are normal. In the end though only you can decide to move on.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> If you read the past posts here you will see that all your doing and feeling is totally normal as is your wife's desire to rug sweep. I wanted to rug sweep to. But you, she can't.
> 
> You are on 2.5 months out. You are going to get even worse in the next 7 months or so before you get better. It's normal. It normally takes 1 to 5 years to get rid of the pain, paranoia, mind movies and the paranoia will never go completely away. Hurt spouses of affairs often suffer from PTSD, do a search and read the symptoms and signs such as paranoia, hypervigilance, triggers, etc.
> 
> Talk to the people here who have recovered. Sigma is one I have seen posting and there are likely many others or post a thread asking reconciled couples to respond. It will help you see you are normal. In the end though only you can decide to move on.


Getting worse than this for 7 more months? PTSD ? Man this is going to be a heck of a year... I wonder if our relationship can withstand that kind of pressure for that long? I wonder if I can deal with that...

I'm sure it wasn't the intent of your post, but now i'm even more confused. Yeah i definetly have some PTSD signs there. It's still a question on "how" to move on if you know what I mean.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I couldn't have done it without IC.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

All this kind of talk makes me realize I should take extra effort to relax a little.

I know that sounds odd, but it is starting to feel like my health and sanity depend on it.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Re: Is forgiveness really possible?
> ________________________________________
> All this kind of talk makes me realize I should take extra effort to relax a little.
> I know that sounds odd, but it is starting to feel like my health and sanity depend on it.


*Your health and sanity may just depend on your decisions and actions.*

You have been hit with a very damaging blow by your wife’s infidelity. That is one of the biggest relation killers of all time and you have been done very wrong. Now hold on to your seat belt.


You have two choices

1	You can flop around and feed your damaged emotions

2	You can make up your mind to take actions that will help your health and sanity significantly.


I know that you are in the very early stages but the sooner you get going in a positive direction the sooner you are going to come out of this. One positive action that you can take is to forgive for YOU.

You asked the question of 
*



Is forgiveness really possible?

Click to expand...

*
*First, what do you mean by Forgiveness, what is you definition of forgiveness? Please explain in detail.*

To get going in the right direction you can force yourself to do something that you have always wanted to do, maybe a “Bucket List” type thing. Force your self to do whatever you can do that does not involve you thinking about how wrong you have been done and all those triggers.* When you fail get back up and go at it again. This is a perseverance and discipline thing.*

If you are asking your wife about the affair, STOP! You already know what you need to know. She betrayed you and showed weak character. We all get it now get going on you getting you better. Treat this like you just broke your leg and arm. Don’t be consumed with that idiot that got drunk and got in the car wreak that broke your arm, get busy exercising and doing whatever to get your leg and arm ready for when you recover. Consentrate on you getting better not the driver.

Is that what your emotions are screaming for? Hell No, your emotions are screaming for justice, for revenge, to feel sorry for yourself because you have been shyt on. For her to make everything go away. She is not going to do that no matter how much she tries. She can be a very good support and it seems like she is. However, she will never be enough in these early stages to get you out of the funk that you are in. You are lucky in that you have a wife that seems truly remorseful and is doing something about it.



> lighteninghelix
> She's changed her life around. She got a new and satisfying job, she's going back to school to further accelerate her career. She's made a new entourage and introduced me to them.
> 
> She's also made alot of thoughtful attempts towards me and has communicated alot more and better. In summary, she's really trying to make an effort to pull things together as much as possible. She has fufilled everything needed that would make me continue on things with her.



*Life is very unfair and it is up to you to take lemons and make lemonade or just remain sour and bitter like a lemon. *You want empathy you will get empathy from many good folks right here on this forum. You want someone to vent to? You can get many here for that. You want advice? You will get lots of that here also. However, all of those helps are not enough; *you have to fight like hell to get better. That mostly means you doing something to improve YOU and stop throwing up the affair to your remorseful wife*. She deserves to suffer but you let God and her take care of that you get going getting YOU better.


*Your heath and sanity depends on it!*


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> *Your health and sanity may just depend on your decisions and actions.*
> 
> You have been hit with a very damaging blow by your wife’s infidelity. That is one of the biggest relation killers of all time and you have been done very wrong. Now hold on to your seat belt.
> 
> ...


Wow, thank you very much you are absolutely right.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

A big part of the problem you're facing is you are overriding your gut with your heart.

Gut's really really want to be listened to, as do hearts.

It will be this way until she proves your gut wrong.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I revisited your first thread, and you do have a lot to worry about.

Your fiance has a history of EAs possible PAs and one night stands. At lot it seems driven by what mood she is in. And this has happened over a long time, she'll be fine for months, get in a bad place, and then bam she's cheating.

So what has she done to fix herself? Because until she deals with this latent throw sense to the wind and act like a tramp behavior you'll never ever be able to trust her.

You'll never be able to be away from home since a parking ticket might cause her to pick up a guy, or a fight with coworker, or...

Just wait until the stress of raising kids - you have no idea.

So until she actually tackles the thing inside of her that has let her choose to cheat several times - then you're just walking back into the same situation you've already battled several times before.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I revisited your first thread, and you do have a lot to worry about.
> 
> Your fiance has a history of EAs possible PAs and one night stands. At lot it seems driven by what mood she is in. And this has happened over a long time, she'll be fine for months, get in a bad place, and then bam she's cheating.
> 
> ...


I addressed this a little in the op but i'll elaborate a little more. Since DDay, she has cut off all contact from the other girlfriends of hers who used to be constant turbo cheats. She even tells me of times when these girls tried to contact her afterwards, but she ignores them. (She finally woke up and realized that they aren't very good friends to her and they are bringing her down to their level.)

She was miserable before because of all the effort she put into building a career had been for nigh. She worked at a job that she was lonely and was treated like **** on a frequent basis. When she realized just how far she has fallen, she decided to go back to school for a little while longer to add to her degree and she was lucky enough to find a new job that can build on her career and she really likes it. I can tell she is much happier since DDay, (other than maybe having to deal with my triggers every once in a while, but thats just how its going to be for a little while and she knows that.)

She has made a new entourage of much more mature people upon going back to school and she made an effort for me to get to know them.

She has proactively been thoughtful on showing love for me throught her words and actions.

My gut is two-fold, my gut is actually telling me that she really has learned just how bad she had gotten and will ensure it won't happen again. But the intense fear I have of it happening again causes me to be very analytical about her every move almost to a paranoid level.

It's kind of like knowing that in your gut and logically the boogeyman isn't there when the lights are off, but the high fear of him causes so much doubt that you check in your closet and bed anyways and are afraid to sleep. (Wierd analogy, i know.)


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> I couldn't have done it without IC.


Sorry what is IC? I am having a bit of trouble on this site at times understanding all the abbreviations !


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

messeduplady said:


> It is early days so to speak, but lots of reassuring responses above me! I resonate with badmemory; I too have found R incredibly hard and have also at times desperately almost wanted my WH to mess up - walking away or separating would be easier than R imo.


I too felt the same way, but no such luck...I quess now I have to start trusting her...just a little. maybe I'll wait another 3 years before I trust her enough with my life, but for now alls she gets is my fogivness.

I have to face the fact that Mrs. the-guy has *earned* my forgivness for now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

itskaren said:


> Sorry what is IC? I am having a bit of trouble on this site at times understanding all the abbreviations !


Individual Counselling.


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## Sestina (Nov 6, 2012)

lightninghelix said:


> I mentioned it was a she (and me a guy), but I get what you mean. The thing is I "want" to, I really do, otherwise I wouldn't still be with her. My sub-conscious is really fighting back and making that difficult for me. I guess I wanted to know from others if those triggers and mind movies and all of those things will fade away. I know I couldn't stay with her forever if those things won't eventually stay in check.
> 
> I consider myself a pretty reasonable and open-minded person, so I thought that I could really get through this. It seems alot more difficult than I originally thought though. I often take very small things as signals that she is still untrustworthy, I chastise her alot if she is slightly late coming home from work (like 30 minutes) or get angry if she dosen't promptly answer my texts or calls. I go stir crazy. I am so-called hypervigilant to an extreme and get very pumped up at the idea of her still cheating while on the surface she is trying everything to make it work for us.
> 
> ...


YES. All of this sounds just like where I am, but I'm not even 3 weeks out from D-Day yet. 2.5 months sounds so long, yet I know it isn't. It's hands-down the worst thing that has ever happened to me. No scenario, R or not, provides any relief. 

You are not alone.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Sestina said:


> YES. All of this sounds just like where I am, but I'm not even 3 weeks out from D-Day yet. 2.5 months sounds so long, yet I know it isn't. It's hands-down the worst thing that has ever happened to me. No scenario, R or not, provides any relief.
> 
> You are not alone.


I'm in some ways much better than in my first 3 weeks and in some ways worse!

At first I was full of anger, hatred and I asked alot of questions specifically about the cheating fling. My reactions and feelings were fully apparent and I was experiencing full trauma.

Now, after 2.5 months I have asked every question there was to ask about what happened that night. Now things feel like some sort of constant Private eye sequence. Secretly looking for other information that proves/disproves that continuing to invest my time with this person is not a mistake. I try to gather as much information as possible to see if this wasn't the first time (at least to a physical level.) or if that it may be happening again. I also look out for clues to make sure she is still holding to not contacting the two specific ex-friends of hers that get her involved in such things.

Actually, these days, the whole effect of her cheating has occupied more of my time then it did at first.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

I am not so sure about forgiveness. I think in our situation it has become acceptance. Acceptance that he stepped outside of our marriage and that we have to move past it or end the relationship. I have chosen to move past it. I was depressed and then angry. Now I am just at the oh well phase. He did it, it is over, there were no plans to leave the spouses and we have three kids. It simply becomes do I break up their home or do I stay and hope we develope another type of relationship? I have left the ball in his court. But he has changed me forever. Wether in this relationship or another I will never have rose tinted glasses. I have vowed to live my life as god intended me. Faithful, loving, perky and fun.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

lightninghelix said:


> I addressed this a little in the op but i'll elaborate a little more. Since DDay, she has cut off all contact from the other girlfriends of hers who used to be constant turbo cheats. She even tells me of times when these girls tried to contact her afterwards, but she ignores them. (She finally woke up and realized that they aren't very good friends to her and they are bringing her down to their level.)
> 
> She was miserable before because of all the effort she put into building a career had been for nigh. She worked at a job that she was lonely and was treated like **** on a frequent basis. When she realized just how far she has fallen, she decided to go back to school for a little while longer to add to her degree and she was lucky enough to find a new job that can build on her career and she really likes it. I can tell she is much happier since DDay, (other than maybe having to deal with my triggers every once in a while, but thats just how its going to be for a little while and she knows that.)
> 
> ...


these are all external things, which are good steps and definite improvements.

but the thing which let her choose to cheat was inside her, not outside.

She needs to fix that broken morals and decision making logic in her head that let her choose to cheat. These external things didn't make her cheat - she choose to.

I highly recommend that she find a good IC and spend a lot of time exploring the inside of her that sees cheating a valid option. That's the part that has be killed off in her, or the next time bad hard times hit, she's going to have cheating once again as the go-to answer for dealing with it.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I believe forgiveness is absolutely possible. 

I also believe that forgiveness and wanting to try again are not always related. In other words, you can forgive and still move on without the wayward in your life. Likewise, you can also attempt to keep the wayward in your life and not forgive.

Good Luck
WD


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

It's much easier to forgive if the wayward is not in your life.


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

I understand your dilemma. Sometimes I envision what my husband's face must've looked liked when he willingly called a prostitute, or simply looking for their numbers on his phone, or when the strippers would dance on him for hours on end at $1,200 an hr. And then I say to myself, I never cheated, I never lied, I was the only one who was in a marriage, and I think it's best for me to move on, with someone who has a clean slate and is deserving of true love. It's possible. There are people out there who could love us for who we are without needing to cheat on us.


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