# Is this a problem?



## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi all,

New here but I have been directed to this site before by Google.

My wife and I have been married for 3.5 years and have been together for 6.5 years. I keep getting nagging doubts as our compatibility though.

We moved in together after 9 months of dating and to be honest that's when the sex initially dried up. This caused a lot of arguments and a lot of pain on my side. Just before we got married we had a massive fight about it and I said it had gotten me so down that I was thinking of driving off a local bridge as I felt trapped. Things did improve in terms of the frequency and we now have sex every 2 to 3 days and it has been this way since that fight.

We have had fights about the variety of sex though. My wife does frequently orgasm and says she is quite happy with that side of things. I however get bored. She is not particularity passionate and that kind of drags me down. She complains that my kisses can be overly wet, which I try and address as best as I can but I'm not happy with just lips. She stops BJ's as soon as there is any pre-cum as she doesn't like the taste (We've tried things like flavored lubes or me drinking pineapple juice). She isn't actively in the her movements and to be honest I get kind of bored. I've asked her to provide some ideas and she has none on how to spice things up.

While we don't talk about it frequently because it just ends up as a fight or her becoming depressed. The last time we had such an argument she put the option of anal on the table - something I was interested in but knew she wasn't so had made piece with that. I have no desire to hurt or injure her so I did take her up on her offer but in an exploratory manner using small toys with lots of lube etc. Even though I asked her to communicate and tell me what was going on she just kind of buried her head and then whimpered at which point I stopped completely. We tried this 4 or so times but recently the offer has been withdrawn with a statement a long the lines of "if you want that, you will need to find a new wife". I really just wanted her to talk to me and communicate and I said this every time but now that opportunity is gone.

Otherwise our marriage is fine, we have the normal ups and downs that everyone does. I did recently quit my job as the work environment was less than fantastic due to bullying - So I'm looking for a new job but in the interim I've started a business - if nothing else to keep me occupied until something comes along. This has prompted questions such as "how long until this business replaces your previous income?". I've asked for support and sometimes I do get upset with these types of questions because honestly I don't know, it might never and I might just find another job next week. I am exploring and trying to find ways that I can enjoy my life while supporting us.

I guess what I am really wondering is - my not being supportive and open enough or am I wrong? I suspect that the answer as with most things is some where in the middle but how do we figure this out? What steps do we need to take? We've read a few books and have been to counselling previously but I don't feel we have moved along fair enough. We do love each other very much and there is no one else etc.

I'd really appreciate some advice to figure this out...

Cheers,
Mmm


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My take on this is that you are unhappy in other areas of your life and worrying/displacing your feelings about that onto your sex life. If you're having sex every 2 or 3 days, and your wife is trying to cooperate, what more do you want? 
Are you watching porn? If so, that will have an affect on your sex life. Everybody doesn't want sloppy porn star sex. Everyone doesn't want the job of supplying porn star sex for their spouse when they come home from work tired. Basically, I think your expectations and hers are not in sync.

And honestly, I doubt the problem is more your wife's fault. Your wife is not there to provide you with constant happiness. You need to find ways to make yourself happy. Surely sex is not your main focus on a daily basis? 
I don't know how much money you're contributing to the family, but if the only thing your wife is asking is how long until you're going to be providing for the home, I think she sounds pretty reasonable.

Focus on what you can fix: YOUR END

The sex---- that is highly unlikely to change for you.


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Thanks Evinrude for your reply. So I don't watch porn more than occasionally (let's say 3 times a month).

I'm not asking for porn star sex - I think that would actually be quite unfulfilling. Her idea of initiation is simply asking if we are having sex now - like asking if I would like a cup of coffee. We've spoken on this before and this has not changed.

Money wise - I am the primary bread winner by a factor of 3:1. I basically pay for everything aside from the utilities which is what she pays for. Her disposable income has always been higher due to me paying for everything else and saving for the normal life events - something that I am happy to do. I did explain that I can projections and I'm happy to talk her through one of my "boring" spread sheets and I've asked her to help me things but that assistance hasn't been forthcoming.

While that sounds defensive I do totally except the the issue may be on my end - any practical advice on where to start?


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

House work
Child care
Shopping
Work
Washing the cars
Cycling
Sorting the vegetable garden
Sorting the family diet
Cooking
Scrubbing the kitchen floor
Watering house plants
etc 

All take something away from the energy of sex. It is always better to help out, especially if she works.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My idea: , learn to love the good about your wife.
Are you worried she’s not in love with you?
What’s so bad about some relaxing, boring sex most workdays?

I really don’t think there’s much you can do.
She’s been low drive basically the whole time.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I would love to hear what your wife has to say about you and your contributions to her life. Just reading your post makes me think that you are not that exciting to live with and are quite demanding, it seems to be all about you, your sexual satisfaction, her not thrilling you, etc. All I can see is that your wife stepped up to the plate with frequency, now it’s not enough for you, you want more variety, she obviously doesn’t like anal but did it for you anyway. Then you leave your job because of bullying, a woman needs security and you are annoyed about her needs. In fact you come across as quite self centred, marriage is not all about YOU! 
What about the fact she doesn’t like the way you slobber all over her when kissing, does she have a say in anything? I think you need to start looking at yourself first, your wife is not in the marriage to meet your needs or simply for your gratification.


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## Coastalguy (May 15, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> I really don’t think there’s much you can do.
> She’s been low drive basically the whole time.


I'm in complete agreement except for the above. I don't think his wife can be called LD keeping up an average of once in two or three days for over three years.. 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Okay so I accept that I may be the problem - any resources that anyone can direct me to? Most issues can be overcome but I've exhausted my toolbox and am seeking advice on what else I can do.

To answer the other points. I do most of the house hold stuff - if I don't then it doesn't get done. My wife works shifts and so for a typical late shift her day will go something like this: the night before she will go to bed/sleep at the same time as I do, she will then spend all morning in bed including watching TV with the cats. She will then get out of bed late, rush to get ready and go to work and on the way out she will say she forgot/ran out of time to load the dishwasher. Then she will get home and sit straight down after a brief hello and stare at her phone. This is where I will get a wee bit defensive - I have to pay for and renovate our house plus the normal house hold stuff - I more than pull my weight.

I don't have any objection to normal workaday sex 90% of the time but a little effort once in a while would go a long way. I don't care much what is but I feel placated not loved and adored. I appreciate life is busy etc. but every so often a bit of couple time would be nice.

Maybe my wife has lots of things to say about me but I don't think I'm demanding, I think I have ideas that I want to share and talk about. I think she doesn't allow for time for that. I've asked her for her ideas on numerous occasions and it is always "I don't know". I'm not saying that everything needs to be about me and that she must gratify me - I would like an open partner who I can actually talk to without feeling like an inconvenience. This I think is why conversations descend in to a fight when they rarely happen. I suspect that all people need security not just women requiring financial security - I would like to know that I'm not just a mug doing and paying for everything who will be tossed aside should life take an unexpected turn.

FYI I have purposely dehydrated myself and she still thinks I produce too much saliva. I think she might have an issue with bodily fluids as you she see the face she pulls when she actually sees my cum. I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to try and diagnose her as that can't be a good road to go down. 

Happy to look at myself but please, if you know of any, then please point me to some useful resources to assist me...


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Okay so I've though it through and I've just asked my wife for some quality time when she gets home tonight and as part of that I'll ask her for a bit of a framework so we can share any wants, needs and issues in hopefully a productive way. If we can't move forwards with doing that then I guess that means I know what my options are and that's my own bag to carry.

I'd still really appreciate any additional resources that folks can point me to but if not then I'll crack on with my idea as it is.

While I appreciate that my description of the issues from my side are not giving the full picture of everything (I'm not sure that's even possible but also my ability to convey things isn't always the best), I don't want to be that guy on the internet.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

aine said:


> I would love to hear what your wife has to say about you and your contributions to her life. Just reading your post makes me think that you are not that exciting to live with and are quite demanding, it seems to be all about you, your sexual satisfaction, her not thrilling you, etc. All I can see is that your wife stepped up to the plate with frequency, now it’s not enough for you, you want more variety, she obviously doesn’t like anal but did it for you anyway. Then you leave your job because of bullying, a woman needs security and you are annoyed about her needs. In fact you come across as quite self centred, marriage is not all about YOU!
> What about the fact she doesn’t like the way you slobber all over her when kissing, does she have a say in anything? I think you need to start looking at yourself first, your wife is not in the marriage to meet your needs or simply for your gratification.


I have but one regret in this thread and it's the fact that I could only 'like' this post *ONCE*. :grin2:

I agree with the above. OP, you give off the impression that you're arrogant, self absorbed, self important, self-centered and you apparently kiss like a 14 year old pimple-faced teenage boy on his first date. 

I'm sure all the guys on this board (and there are a good amount of them) who are either married to LD women or choosing to remain in sexless marriages are going to find it _real _hard to choke up some sympathy for you because you're 'bored' with the sex you're getting at home.

If I'm being honest, what the hell do YOU bring to the table that would *inspire* your wife to start acting like a sex vixen and spicing things up for you? Did she find it incredibly hot and sexy that you were irresponsible enough to walk away from a good paying job because the other kids were picking on you? I'm kinda thinking not.

You seem to think that it's all HER responsibility to keep your sex life fresh and exciting.


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Okay She'sStillGotIt - maybe I am all of those things. It's entirely possible. I'm not after sympathy, I'm not happy (my own issue) and I'm reaching out for resources. I try to give my wife everything that I am capable of - I really do. I've worked extremely hard to give us a good life and I will continue to do that. Fortunately I don't expect to be out of a job long as I'm quite well established and very resourceful (not bragging but I work hard and most folks respect that).

I think a person in a relationship can still be LD, have maintenance sex all the time and that still not be enough - I think personally that is okay to say that. Others may disagree but everyone has their own boundaries and views.

Honestly I've tried asking her what she wants, I've tried researching ideas and suggesting them, I've tried surprising her (not in the jump out from behind a door way but in the consenting blindfold then bring food in to the bedroom kind of way).

The other kids weren't picking on me - there was a bully picking on the other little tykes and our public sector customers - depriving a vital resource of money that could be better spent. I was being asked to essentially cover for that and I could not. While morals won't put food on the table, if I had none then I don't think I would be a very good person to be in a relationship with.

Did I say they were HER responsibility? I think I said I believed the issues were somewhere in the middle. If you have any practical advice I'm open to it. I have tried lots of things but there isn't reciprocation and that makes it pretty hard work.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Maybe you're doing too much in the household and she wants you to take complete responsibility for the variety in sexual encounters too?

Just throwing it out there.

What responsibilities in the home are totally hers?

Is this starfish sex all the time, or does she try various flavors herself say one out of three?


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi Ragnar, primarily putting clothes away after they've been washed is hers but to be honest after the third load of washing hasn't been put away I just get bored of trying to locate clothes in the dark from a washing basket so I sort it out and put stuff away. I think she is just happy enough to go with whatever sex wise - we have spoken about this in the past and she knows what works and that's enough for her.

It's basically all the time - it's almost like it's become a scheduled thing too as in oh it's been three days so yeah I'll just get naked and we will do the same thing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You two are just incompatible...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

mmmrandom said:


> This I think is why conversations descend in to a fight when they rarely happen. I suspect that all people need security not just women requiring financial security - I would like to know that I'm not just a mug doing and paying for everything who will be tossed aside should life take an unexpected turn.


Ok, you are sounding less defensive. So that is good. Now everyone is going to bang you because you express yourself selfishly. 

So the quote above. Bing, bing, bing..... Winner winner chicken dinner. 

Yep, this is you. Some of it is your fault and some of it is the fact that you two are not compatible. 

You through a fit about sex and now you get duty sex 3 time a week and that is all you are going to get. 

And when she finds someone better than you, you are toast. 

Now we can get more into that, and I am sure others will, but lets talk about kissing. 

DUDE, if a woman tells you she does not like that way that you kiss, you freaking change it, get it. 

You are running around doing all the wrong thing, getting butt hurt about sex, resentful that she does not desire you and you don't freaking know how to kiss. GOOD GOD MAN. 

You are doing everything wrong. Being needy, *****y, whiny and you wonder why she does not want to have passionate sex with you? 

First things first...

Kissing is about the most intimate thing you can do with a woman and it is the most important. For a man it should project DESIRE, love, tenderness, urgency and power... 

It does not need to be wet to be effective. Soft, relaxed lips, holding her close, tasting her with just your lips. When she wants tongue she will let you know. 

Google it for some extra tips. FIGURE THIS OUT and we may be able to help you with some other things.

You need to stop the defensiveness, with her and use and maybe we can help. But if you don't fix this soon, then you may have to call in the dogs because she is currently placating you with duty sex and that is just a hair away from being completely checked out.

Are you getting some of this???


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

mmmrandom said:


> Okay so I've though it through and I've just asked my wife for some quality time when she gets home tonight and as part of that I'll ask her for a bit of a framework so we can share any wants, needs and issues in hopefully a productive way.


Make sure that the conversations you have STAY at a conversational level -- don't let it devolve into a yelling match or getting angry.
IF she gets defensive/mad -- stop her and ask her why she feels that way RIGHT THEN. Don't wait until the end of the conversation because you both will be pissed off by then.

Another thing -- since YOU are bored, have you tried to spice up YOUR end of the sex? Have you given her a romantic back rub with oil before you jump to the main event? Have YOU tried to light some candles, etc.?
She may not be imaginative or repressed about this (sounds like she is embarrassed when you talk to her about sex and maybe that's why she gets defensive/angry?). 

Again, if things start ramping up -- STOP it, talk calmly, and try to get the conversation back to a good level and not angry/mad/frustrated. YOU need to guard your reactions as well -- she may be afraid of how you may react if she says something...

Just some suggestions....


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

In Absentia, you could be right - I've got an idea of something to try and if that doesn't work then I guess that fact is fully established.

BluesPower, I suspect that I'm in the wrong place - both with my thinking and also seeking assistance here. I guess my initial post gave the wrong idea and I should have thought it through better but there is some assumptions made by folks responding (which is kind of them to do and I'll thank them for that) that are incorrect. I'll take that on the chin as my communication issue though. I've never had any other women complain and I have been around the block a few times myself so I figure rather Googling something that I've not questioned since I was a 14 year old then I might just ask my wife. Maybe all the previous women I have been with have been too polite (I would think that unlikely but you never know) or maybe this is something that is specific between her and I. I guess talking with her is most likely to move us forwards - I'll let you know.

I'll take the advice here thus far to mean be the change you want to see. I'll keep you posted on how that works out, that being said I'm going to ask to redistribute a few things so that we come at things as partners not me doing everything (not limited to the household chores but while I will find another job, if she wants more money in our lives then she can go ahead and find a way she can help with that too, it is 2018 after all).


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Hey jlg07, I have tried on my end to spice things up as you say with back rubs and things but yeah I think you're right in terms of approaching these sorts of conversations - I mean I do it to, get asked a difficult question then get defensive so I think an agreement on how to have those types of conversations is probably a good idea like having rules on time outs etc. so that they can be a balanced conversation not someone getting hurt.

Might seem like a silly idea but I thinking of writing up a relationship agreement with her so that we can both get what we need and be able to talk about these things. For example she wants to talk money, I want to talk about sex then we set time aside and talk about these things, with some ground rules on how it will go.

Cheers for your input, most appreciated. I'll focus on having the conversation tonight about how to have conversations )) and guard against anyone getting upset. I'll even put the cats to bed before she gets home so they are not misbehaving and distracting us in the background...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its always hard to know what is going on in these situations since we see only one side. 

There are people who are simply Low Desire / asexual who do not want sex under conditions where most other people would want sex. Those of us married to people like that understand that it cannot be changed. People who haven't encountered this situation will provide endless suggestions because they can't imagine someone not wanting sex when the situation was right. 

Orgasm has little to do with it. My wife almost always has an O - she just doesn't want sex, except of fairly rare occasions. 


OP, check out asexuality.org It will provide a perspective from people who generally do not want sex.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

do you mean an agenda for the conversation (rather than relationship agreement -- THIS makes me think of big bang theory!)? May be a good idea, and ask HER for items she needs to talk about also.

Maybe you should NOT lead off with a discussion about sex. I think you should talk about HOW to communicate, discuss some of the high-level things like who does what around the house, etc.. Maybe not even discuss the sex issue AT ALL tonight. You need to figure out how to talk HONESTLY without everyone getting pissed off. Tell her you NEED her to talk honestly because if she doesn't, nothing will get resolved. It may hurt (and tell her that), but you know what -- marriage and working through these details it HARD WORK. Still needs to be done.

You should BOTH be able to state your grievances -- and just write them down for further discussion. Do NOT get defensive if she says something that she wants to talk about that you don't agree with -- SHE obviously DOES have a problem with it, so you need to give her the freedom to complain about issues as well. Just write them down so they don't fall into the cracks.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

mmmrandom said:


> BluesPower, I suspect that I'm in the wrong place - both with my thinking and also seeking assistance here. I guess my initial post gave the wrong idea and I should have thought it through better but there is some assumptions made by folks responding (which is kind of them to do and I'll thank them for that) that are incorrect. I'll take that on the chin as my communication issue though. I've never had any other women complain and I have been around the block a few times myself so I figure rather Googling something that I've not questioned since I was a 14 year old then I might just ask my wife. Maybe all the previous women I have been with have been too polite (I would think that unlikely but you never know) or maybe this is something that is specific between her and I. I guess talking with her is most likely to move us forwards - I'll let you know.


Look there is a lot to this but just as far as kissing goes, yeah maybe you were not married to them or with them long enough for the to get sick of it. Or maybe they were to polite. 

The bottom line is this. If she told you she does not like the way that you kiss, ego aside, the freaking change it. 

I can tell from your posting tone that you think we are a bunch of know-it_alls. 

But let me explain some things. You sound link a lot of sexless guys that just do not get it. 

I know that your ego is hurt a little, I understand. 

Bottom line, if you are not getting the sex the way that you want it, and if she is not having an affair, the you my friend are not doing something right because she is not attracted to you the way that she needs to be. 

Is it all your fault, maybe not, but some of it is. Either you need to figure out your part or file for divorce and find a woman that adores you. 

And guess what, if you do find one, YOU have to continue to make her adore you. 

Let me give you my specs.... I am 54, HD, and I have never ever gone without good sex my entire life. 

My GF, is too the point that she just orders me over to her house (45 minutes away) to come screw her because she cannot wait a day. So you may want to listen to what some of us are telling you...


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

uhtred, thank you for pointing me to that resource - I will check it out .

jlg07, actually I was thinking almost that style (as much as I'm not that found of the Big Bang Theory) . I agree with what you're saying though - tonight's conversation is about how to have conversations although I doubt we will get to the drafting tonight as we will have both had a long week, we can get started this weekend. I want it to be as much her ideas as mine and to include stuff like how we spend quality time together too and how frequently and how we make up for weeks where we only really get an hour together each day where we are not asleep etc. but I will see what she wants to add/thinks of my ideas. We can then get up a list and start going through it.

BluesPower, okay good sir, please tell me your secret then - I suspect you weren't able to Google how to be a fantastic kisser when you were younger so what do you think you figured that I haven't? I am listening but I'm afraid that I don't understand what message you're trying to convey. My ego is fine, don't pull your punches but do speak plainly and practically if possible.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

mmmrandom said:


> BluesPower, okay good sir, please tell me your secret then - I suspect you weren't able to Google how to be a fantastic kisser when you were younger so what do you think you figured that I haven't? I am listening but I'm afraid that I don't understand what message you're trying to convey. My ego is fine, don't pull your punches but do speak plainly and practically if possible.


Look, what I am saying is this. You seemed to argue with her and posters here because she did not like the way that you kissed... Now why would you do that? That type of thinking is some of the problem. 

And yes I suppose I learned how to kiss as a kid, but that is not the point. The thought process of saying, "OK, that is not that way that she likes to kiss, so I need to find out something about kissing or different ways of kissing, so that she will in like it. 

Now, if she is completely nuts, I mean way past crazy, then maybe arguing with her or even talking about it was the right thing to do. But if she is not, the just make some kind of adjustment. 

So what I am trying to say is this... in general... You need to figure out what is going on, which kudos - is what you are trying to do, and you need to figure it out now. 

Why did she want to cut sex back to nothing before you thru a fit? What is that about, was she doing a bait and switch, happens a lot? Is she just against sex? Is she just NOT IN TO SEX WITH YOU? 

You have to figure out what the issue is. And let me give you a hint, it is NOT the amount of house work that you do. You should help with house work because you live there and do your share, not because you want to get laid. 

Men, just like woman, have a responsibility to be and remain sexy. For men, some of that sexiness is strength, confidence, leadership, as well as taking care of your wife sexually and emotionally, and any other way that she needs. And it is not to get laid, that is to be a loving sexy partner that she wants to screw. 

Does that change the way that you want to think about the situation? 

Now here is the rub. If she married you because you were a nice guy with good earning potential, or because she just wanted to get married, well you got problems. 

And, if something made her lose attraction to you for some reason, it is almost impossible to get it back. 

Now, if you want to save the marriage, and have it be sexually compatible, you need to think outside the box. 

Here is the last general thing, if you are HD and she really is LD and there is no birth control issue or some other medical issue, then frankly, if you stay, you are in for a life of misery... 

So think outside the box, look at yourself realistically, void of any ego, and start working the problem...


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

If the conversation is in danger of leading to an argument try holding a cushion when you speak and she listens and when it is her turn give her the cushion. Unless you have the cushion you don't speak you listen.
I think your wife is amazing how she starts sex. My wife can rarely do that as it is embarrassing for her. It shows me she is trying. I start it the same way as your wife like "can we do something"? She knows what I mean.
My wife it turns out is not comfortable with oral sex too. I respect that and adapt to it. If she doesn't enjoy it too what's the point?
With regard to your pornography watching is she happy with that or doesn't she know? That can affect a marriage in a bad way take it or leave it.
Somebody said you are not compatible. I would ignore that as it can be a cop out instead of working at it. It is easy to see the others faults but love covers a multitude of faults. As long as you are both working at it there is hope.


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Right BluePower that's cool - I understand what you're saying and take it on board. I can't think of a better way to figure it out than simply asking her - although I'm open to ideas if you have any alternatives? Although I don't believe I through a fit, she might disagree but I believe I originally although in an argument, explained where I had gotten too with my frustrations. That actually prompted the most progress we had ever made. I also don't try and trade house work for sexual favours - it needs done because I want to live in a certain style (i.e. being able to locate a clean fork when required). Cheers for your persistence on your messaging - I am starting to see what your points are.

Hey Tony, yeah we will cover some ground rules and it might be that simple as using a cushion. Not going to state here are the rules but simply talk them through and see if we can agree on them. Regards to the oral sex point then I agree, that's cool but we have to a middle ground between stuff that we are both happy with and fulfills our needs. Doing the same 3 things is not overly enjoyable for me but I will talk that through with her. If I do all the adapting then that doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness over the longer term. Regards to porn use which I think is fairly limited but she does know and she doesn't seem to mind and we do watch together sometimes. She kind of refuses to pick though but I will talk with her on that too and see if we can't figure that out.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

so guys.....a big part of sexuality IS SELFISH.....in its nature, it just is. His wife is not on the thread, so he is open that he is expressing HIS SIDE to the situation. Lets give him a little slack...as all of us understand that boring sex is just that....boring. 

My advise...the lower drive person controls much of sex, and the higher drive person needs to be very creative, often the one bringing new ideas and such to the bedroom. My wife if the LD partner, and I asked for years for her to offer things to spice it up, but she just did not have many suggestions. What I did learn, is if I presented new ideas, every few times, one of them would be something we both found we liked. Sometimes you strike out, but you have to keep trying to offer new and creative ideas.


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Cheers Married. Glad that you've found a strategy that works for you and yours. I guess together with the assistance offered here I have figured out is that I need to develop a strategy with my wife - if we can agree on that then all good, if we can't then that is something else but I will cross that bridge when I get to it and not before .

I should have worded that initial post better and taken a higher level view of my own feelings. My wife isn't here so I am reaching out about my issues with my relationship. She has other support networks and I'm sure she utilises them in the manner that she wants to. We all have our things I guess. I know what I want (and that will need to be selfish) and I need to figure out with her, how we can both get our own (selfish) needs met (hopefully the meeting isn't selfish or is proportionatly selfish (if you know what I am driving at)).


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@mmmrandom, all open mouthed kissing will be wet, it can't be avoided. I'm wondering if her issue is actually something else.


Do you have too much saliva in your mouth, so that it drips into hers? You can close your mouth and swallow your own saliva regularly when kissing, so it doesn't drip into her mouth.

Can she taste (the food on) your tongue? You can brush your tongue (and your teeth of course) to get rid of that.

Is your mouth a lot bigger than hers, so that it seems to cover her face when you open it wide for an open mouthed kiss? Don't open your mouth so wide then.

Are you thrusting your tongue down her throat and choking her? Or are you "cleaning" her teeth with your tongue?

Why don't you ask her to explain exactly what she means by not liking open mouthed kissing because it is too wet. Give her the examples above as a starting point.

Regarding the boring sex (according to you): I think either you are not compatible, or neither of you is being specific enough about what you like and don't like, in order to work it out.

How old are both of you? Lack of life experience (I don't mean sexual experience, but well developed communication skills based on life experience) can cause problems in a young marriage, whether it be in the bedroom, coordinating chores, or simply having open communication.


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## mmmrandom (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi Aracaria,

I'm not sure if this is really still a current issue in all truthfulness but I can only gain insight by asking her but to answer your points questions as best as I can now:

1. I don't think I have too much saliva but given I only have a reference size of 1 (my own mouth) then I do already repeatedly keep swallowing just to try and avoid this. 
2. I don't think so because I'm pretty over zealous on my oral hygiene
3. My bite is larger yes but I don't go full goldfish or anything. I can see what she says mind.
4. Nope I don't think so but I'll get her take as soon as I can.

I'm 30 and she is (almost) 40 although I would suggest I'm an older 30 and she is a younger 40 if that makes sense. I had my own flat when we first met and she lived in a house share so I had a household to keep and she just had her room if that makes sense. You couldn't see her floor mind you, she is kind of a horder and not overly tidy. This has improved mind...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It depends. My LD wife does NOT want creativity. She wants pretty much the same thing every time and is uncomfortable with any change in routine. 




Married_in_michigan said:


> so guys.....a big part of sexuality IS SELFISH.....in its nature, it just is. His wife is not on the thread, so he is open that he is expressing HIS SIDE to the situation. Lets give him a little slack...as all of us understand that boring sex is just that....boring.
> 
> My advise...the lower drive person controls much of sex, and the higher drive person needs to be very creative, often the one bringing new ideas and such to the bedroom. My wife if the LD partner, and I asked for years for her to offer things to spice it up, but she just did not have many suggestions. What I did learn, is if I presented new ideas, every few times, one of them would be something we both found we liked. Sometimes you strike out, but you have to keep trying to offer new and creative ideas.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If she doesn’t like oral— you’ll never change that.
She needs to show you what she wants with the kissing thing. She may not even want one.
Duty sex 3 times a week by a LD partner is ANAZING in my opinion. I’d say she loves him just based on that. Is she LD? 
Not established, just suspected.

You are not wanting something selfish. I think the posters who have told you that are possibly just man haters. Lol

You just want your wife to seem like she wants you and is sexually attracted to you (I think). If you’re wanting more than that, you’re fishing in the wrong pond. Divorce and find it elsewhere.

Your wife is likely giving you all she has in her to give. 

Question: if you never initiated, would she desire you?
If you never kissed her, would she seek you out for a kiss?

And I don’t think you’re defensive, either.
Pretty thick skinned after the posts you’ve gotten, I’d say.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

For a moment, some core biological drivers are worth mentioning.

We all have a built in response to foreign biological material. It’s a survival impulse called disgust. Oral and genital fluid are teeming with pathogens. Disgust reduces the likelihood of pathogen infection. True for undercooked food as well. 

Arousal - and caloric hunger - suppress disgust. Sufficiently hungry or aroused, a normal human feels no disgust. 

That said, OCD folk, especially germiphobes, have a more difficult time with food and sex. 

When M2 and I connect, pacing matters. I do lots of stuff that gets her aroused, but doesn’t involve fluid transfer. When she starts giving me ‘wet’ kisses I know she is highly aroused. Typically the lag between initial contact and wet contact is 3-5 minutes. But no big deal if it takes longer. 

And everyone has their threshold. I don’t find the idea of rim jobs appealing. Giving or receiving. Too much biohazard for too little return. 







mmmrandom said:


> uhtred, thank you for pointing me to that resource - I will check it out .
> 
> jlg07, actually I was thinking almost that style (as much as I'm not that found of the Big Bang Theory) . I agree with what you're saying though - tonight's conversation is about how to have conversations although I doubt we will get to the drafting tonight as we will have both had a long week, we can get started this weekend. I want it to be as much her ideas as mine and to include stuff like how we spend quality time together too and how frequently and how we make up for weeks where we only really get an hour together each day where we are not asleep etc. but I will see what she wants to add/thinks of my ideas. We can then get up a list and start going through it.
> 
> BluesPower, okay good sir, please tell me your secret then - I suspect you weren't able to Google how to be a fantastic kisser when you were younger so what do you think you figured that I haven't? I am listening but I'm afraid that I don't understand what message you're trying to convey. My ego is fine, don't pull your punches but do speak plainly and practically if possible.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Leave her ass alone. Some women are afraid of:

A. Germs

Why would she want you to lick her ass then french kiss her? She doesn't.

B. Diapers

Some people think this loosens the muscles back there.

C. Cancer

Some people think this causes rectal cancer.

Leave her ass alone. Don't expect her to touch your ass either.

Some guys here haven't had sex since 20o9 so you *****ing about 3X @ week is funny.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Yes she needs to move her hips and act interested in sex. She needs to show interest in you. Become the best version of yourself and make sure you are fulfilling her emotional needs. Don't make her feel like she's just your sex doll.


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

We all need sex. Well nearly all. I think a problem can occur when we hear about mores or watch porn. Mores are not always real intimate needs. There are intimate needs and you should both strive to meet these. You for hers and her for yours. Sometimes it better to ditch the mores if they aren't real intimate needs. If they are addictions that is something else and needs to be fought against.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

mmmrandom said:


> Okay so I've though it through and I've just asked my wife for some quality time when she gets home tonight and as part of that I'll ask her for a bit of a framework so we can share any wants, needs and issues in hopefully a productive way. If we can't move forwards with doing that then I guess that means I know what my options are and that's my own bag to carry.
> 
> I'd still really appreciate any additional resources that folks can point me to but if not then I'll crack on with my idea as it is.
> 
> While I appreciate that my description of the issues from my side are not giving the full picture of everything (I'm not sure that's even possible but also my ability to convey things isn't always the best), I don't want to be that guy on the internet.


Have you read His Needs Her Needs, better still do it together


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@mmmrandom, how did the conversation go???


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

As a woman married to a wet kisser that alone can be a major turn off.

It is probably a combination of her having a bit of phobia against body secretions, and you not being that great at it. I know it is in my marriage. 

I have major slobber phobia and I will own that, but I also happened to pick the the slobberiest partner ever. It really sucks to have to remind him to swallow or wipe my face off in the middle of sex all the time. Kissing can be super erotic, or it can be horrible. It makes or breaks your sex life. I highly recommend you let go of your ego and just ask your wife what she doesn't like or what you could do to make kissing better. Even if you are fine at it, you aren't doing it the way your wife wants. So change to meet her wishes.

As others have said since you are the one who wants more variety it is your responsibility to be creative and come up with new ideas and things to try. I think it is unfair to label your wife LD or boring or unwilling to meet your needs when she tried anal with you 4 times. Sounds like she is pretty open to please you.

It's a real shame she doesn't like giving oral because nothing is better than making a guy squirm. It's so powerful. 

Anyway my advice is for YOU to come up with ways to spice up your sex life. It doesn't have to be as extreme or crazy as anal. With anything go slowly, but be dominate. If your marriage is lacking spark you will have to bring the passion and energy. Hopefully your enthusiasm will compel her to be more involved as well. Good luck!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

mmmrandom said:


> My wife works shifts and so for a typical late shift her day will go something like this: the night before she will go to bed/sleep at the same time as I do, she will then spend all morning in bed including watching TV with the cats. She will then get out of bed late, rush to get ready and go to work and on the way out she will say she forgot/ran out of time to load the dishwasher. Then she will get home and sit straight down after a brief hello and stare at her phone. This is where I will get a wee bit defensive - I have to pay for and renovate our house plus the normal house hold stuff - I more than pull my weight.


Yes this, this shift thing.

I worked shifts many a year.

When doing this, one is usually tired, sleep is not restful, is a jittery collapse.

Laying in bed and waiting and waiting.

Waiting to fall asleep only to get up and go 'at' another day.

It does make one jittery, on edge, grumpy, tired.

The thing is...

At work you are fine. The rest of the time..not fine.
Not fined tuned, always running ragged.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

How do people who live together for over 2 years with bad kissing and insufficient sex come to the conclusion that getting married is a good idea. 

Threads like this make me very thankful for the enthusiastic sex I get every 6 weeks or so! 

I don't have any advice for the @mmmrandom . I've proven that I can't solve this problem. I do have an idea to pass by you. Instead of Anal, you should have asked for cowgirl. BTW any kids?


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Take a look at this site and read these articles together. It will open some doors for really good conversations and perhaps help you learn to navigate the difficult issues in a healthier and more productive way. https://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3200_love.html

Stop watching porn - it really is affecting what you want her to be like and what you want her to do - even if you think its not. From a woman's perspective porn turns men into bad lovers. Typically porn sex is not good sex for women. So completely ditch the porn!

You quit a job before finding a new one first? Did you discuss this with her before doing it and if so was she on board with it? Did you do all the research on starting a business and have a plan for how to cover all your expenses until the business actually starts making enough money? Let me tell you - in spite of all the women's liberation that has supposedly happened the past several years - an unemployed husband becomes an unattractive one real quick. 

Wet kisses - i can relate here. My husband is actually a good kisser - some of the times - but during sex when he is really getting into it - something happens and its like his mouth gets mushy and there is more saliva - and for some reason he wants to thrust his tongue down my throat. It's a real turn off for sure. I don't know if that is what is happening to you - but if it is - you would be better off to not kiss her at all then to keep trying to kiss her in a way she doesn't like. I solved my problem after many attempts to tell him I didn't like those kinds of kisses - and they still kept happening - by not letting my husband kiss me during sex anymore. He can kiss me any other time - even during warm up foreplay, just not after he is really loosing himself in the moment. He still tries sometimes - and I just turn my head. I don't know - maybe its an involuntary bodily reaction on his part - and yours - but if you can't fix it and its a turn off to her - just stop doing it. 

As far as who is at fault with the issues in your marriage - it's probably both of you. But you only control your side of the marriage and can only fix you. Sometimes fixing you will result in her fixing her side. 

Take a look at the site I gave you and go through all the tabs on the side bar. Read and discuss them with your wife. There is a wealth of information in the articles - that can help you and your wife better negotiate the marital issues you have now and will have in the future. Having a good marriage where both spouses are happy and satisfied because both of them feel their needs are being met - is hard and takes a lot of work. You both have to work hard at it. Its well worth the effort.


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## HowBoutThemApples (Sep 24, 2018)

tony conrad said:


> it is easy to see the others faults but love covers a multitude of faults. As long as you are both working at it there is hope.


best response i’ve seen around here!!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

mary35 said:


> Take a look at this site and read these articles together. It will open some doors for really good conversations and perhaps help you learn to navigate the difficult issues in a healthier and more productive way. https://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3200_love.html
> 
> Stop watching porn - it really is affecting what you want her to be like and what you want her to do - even if you think its not. From a woman's perspective porn turns men into bad lovers. Typically porn sex is not good sex for women. So completely ditch the porn!
> 
> ...


 I like this post, especially the questions about quitting the job. I work full time and make a good salary, but if my husband came home and told me he had quit work and he had nothing else lined up and he had not talked to me about it, I would be royally angry. That is a major life decision. That in itself could be a big reason for some of The Strain. It doesn't matter how brilliant you are and how lucky some company is going to be to have you any day now. The uncertainty is a Lobito killer for many women, even high drive women.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Lobito is a town and municipality in Benguela Province in Angola
@personofinterest your speech to text app is quite amusing


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Lobito is a town and municipality in Benguela Province in Angola
> 
> @personofinterest your speech to text app is quite amusing



It's also funny when it changes sex to 6 lol


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