# Why is it mostly men here?



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Women often have support networks. Men? Well, we tend not to.

An anonymous place to seek support because our wife/girl friend ripped our heart out and stomped it into the mud? 

Yeah, I'd like some of that, please!:smthumbup:


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## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm not sure why. In my case, my wife did cheat. She cheated on ALL of her ex boyfriends, then me before we were married and one EA (that I know)of during our marriage. I'm not sure why she did it, but I am still working on that. It does appear to me that more women are cheating than before even though the stats say that's not true.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

As a women I'd say that it's more socially acceptable for a woman to cheat then it used to be. Men have always cheated/had mistresses, but it was accepted provided he didn't abandon his family. Women cheated too but hid it and it was unthinkable to break up the family; still, geneticists think that up to 30% of babies born in wedlock historically weren't the husband's. It's only recently you could find out for sure. In this regard men aren't as used to cheating as women are,.so while it could seem like more women cheat I think the numbers out in the open have simply equalized.
One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint. When i have issues with my hb I very much want to know what men think, but it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Women often have support networks. Men? Well, we tend not to.
> 
> An anonymous place to seek support because our wife/girl friend ripped our heart out and stomped it into the mud?
> 
> Yeah, I'd like some of that, please!:smthumbup:


My wife asked me the same thing. I gave Matt's answer as well. As Men we tend not to tell our close circle of friends what has happened as it appears weak, therefore an anonymous forum is perfect. I'm glad I found 'here' though. I came in with a victim mindset and now know I created the monsters to begin with. 
I don't think there is a rise in women going wayward, more of a rise in awareness. I was content with my head in the sand, as many of us are (or were). 

This place is an incredible resource, especially if you read outside of CWI. Lots of good people who want to help you not make the mistakes they did and grow as am individual. 

Thanks for everyone here and all that giving. 

Cheers,
V


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> As a women I'd say that it's more socially acceptable for a woman to cheat then it used to be. Men have always cheated/had mistresses, but it was accepted provided he didn't abandon his family. Women cheated too but hid it and it was unthinkable to break up the family; still, geneticists think that up to 30% of babies born in wedlock historically weren't the husband's. It's only recently you could find out for sure. In this regard men aren't as used to cheating as women are,.so while it could seem like more women cheat I think the numbers out in the open have simply equalized.
> One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint. When i have issues with my hb I very much want to know what men think, but it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you make blatant sexist remarks, well yeah... not interested. I find a lot of the perspectives from the ladies here very valuable. EI, Hope, Affaircare, and a lot of the regulars. 

I don't necessarily agree with them. I will definitely argue with them, but that does not mean that I don't value their input and think that they offer tremendous insight. Because I argue with someone doesn't mean I don't respect them or actually think they make great points.

Men do not think like women. So we can look at the same circumstances and see things much differently.

My WWXW had/has her circle of friends to commiserate on how she cheated and it was all my fault. I actually have a much better support group. True friends that hold me to task. I came here for answers and to share my insight on what works and doesn't.

I don't want people to understand how I feel... I'm a man. I want people to do what works best and solve their issues to have the best results for them.

I hate to say this, but honestly I believe that women have more support groups (gossip circles). I know that is sexist but it's true. I don't talk to my buddies about how their wife makes them feel at home. I talk about football and fishing etc... When I need to talk about other stuff I do but it's not like I'd ever talk about that before Dday.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Women often have support networks. Men? Well, we tend not to.
> 
> An anonymous place to seek support because our wife/girl friend ripped our heart out and stomped it into the mud?
> 
> Yeah, I'd like some of that, please!:smthumbup:


:iagree:

Women are more likely to use their female friends for this sort of support than online support forums.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> When you make blatant sexist remarks, well yeah... not interested. I find a lot of the perspectives from the ladies here very valuable. EI, Hope, Affaircare, and a lot of the regulars.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree with them. I will definitely argue with them, but that does not mean that I don't value their input and think that they offer tremendous insight. Because I argue with someone doesn't mean I don't respect them or actually think they make great points.
> 
> ...



I would say that some women have support groups, not all. I don't blame you for being upset by blatantly sexist remarks but I see that far more often from the men here, mostly because there are a lot more men here. When women cheat I see vitriol like "does your hb know another mans d!ck was inside you" but when men cheat nobody asks how his wife feels about his d!ck being inside another woman. Maybe that's a result of us just seeing things differently.
I agree we don't think the same way, which is why it's so important that we 
share thoughts between us. I come here for the male perspective on things, because the only other option is to hit up male friends, which seems like a boundary violation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

My wife did the cheating, but she had a group of toxic friends... that I guess was sort of like a support/enabler group. Interestingly, her group sort of disbanded from what I understand for various reasons.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> As a women I'd say that it's more socially acceptable for a woman to cheat then it used to be. Men have always cheated/had mistresses, but it was accepted provided he didn't abandon his family. Women cheated too but hid it and it was unthinkable to break up the family; still, geneticists think that up to 30% of babies born in wedlock historically weren't the husband's. It's only recently you could find out for sure. In this regard men aren't as used to cheating as women are,.so while it could seem like more women cheat I think the numbers out in the open have simply equalized.
> One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint. When i have issues with my hb I very much want to know what men think, but it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I stumbled on an early TAM thread 2010 in which WW and WAW were engaged in an honest discussion with BH. This included discussion of R and recovery of sexual attraction. Those women posters would be blasted today and quickly leave. This is sad because it creates several mistaken perceptions:

All cheating gets the same tar brush. Everything follows the script. And while the standard analysis and advice is sound, it may not fit exactly.

One place where men lose out in getting advice from men is that they will not get wholly accurate interpretation of what a woman means by certain statements.

When someone has cheated remorse is important. Saying sorry is very hard for some people. Sometimes they say things that are almost apologies. Getting from that stage to a more explicit statement of I was wrong, no ifs, buts and ands, can be delicate. Sometimes the window of opportunity is limited. So for reconciliation TAM may not be a successful as it might be.

But who knows? There are no statistics.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

workindad said:


> My wife did the cheating, but she had a group of toxic friends... that I guess was sort of like a support/enabler group. Interestingly, her group sort of disbanded from what I understand for various reasons.


Mine too. I'm going to have to start a thread on toxic friends... That was a huge undermining of the marriage.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Lifeistooshort,

Merry Christmas by the way!


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I come here for the male perspective on things, because the only other option is to hit up male friends, which seems like a boundary violation.


I come here to try to help and find resolve, it sometimes works?

You will seldom find many guys who talk openly between themselves about thoughts and emotional feelings, especially if it were to include how their wife was busy fvcking the soccer team while he was on dad duty!!!

Just not manly is it!


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm female and a "betrayed spouse" I can't talk to my normal support network or my family (aside from my closest girlfriend). I'm partway into a dreadfully tense Christmas Eve here. Reading and posting here is a place here I feel understood. 

I'm usually the go to person for my friends and family. The fixer, I'll help you move, and I'll help you move a body if you've earned my friendship. 

I think women overall have an easier time opening up emotionally with friends. I haven't been able to put all this out there for my general social circle to feast on. I'm not going to just put it all out there for everyone. 

I had that happen once beyond my control. Lost two immediate family members within 3 days of each other both tragic and unexpected one very violent and shocking for many reasons. The words of well meaning friends and family who didn't know what to say along with those who treated me as if my tragedy might be contagious was an eye opener.

This is a safe place for me. So I find myself diverting family holiday stress of Tonight and tomorrow by checking in here. The pressure to be "merry" has me ready to crack to be honest. So no I can't even share with my Sister or Mother, they won't get it. They never do.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ntamph said:


> Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?


*My lady IC told me that her personal statistics for well over a 30 year career of hers, recently indicated nearly a 60/40 split in favor of women. She further added that up until the advent of the internet and greatly expanded cell-phone capabilities, it was running roughly about a 50/50 ratio. 

Her belief is that the internet's social media, i. e. FB, AM, et. al., along with cell phone texting, makes it prohibitively easier for women to cheat than it does for men. Men, she said, still cheat primarily through their old conventional channels, although they often make use of the modern technology as well! Men, being a tad more technologically saavy, will try to stray from this medium more primarily because they are more in tune with the inherent land mines associated with it in potentially being found out by either their spouses or some interested third party!

Their female counterparts, however, don't really seem to be as bothered by it as they are!*


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Lifeistooshort,
> 
> Merry Christmas by the way!



Merry Christmas to you too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?


I think it is just a case of water finding it's own level. There are a lot of men posting here, so men may feel comfortable joining in. Go over to Surviving Infidelity; I'd guess 3/4 of the BS there are women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

I don't know any men that have cheated. But both of my brothers and myself have been cheated on. My best friend's wife skipped out on him and two young children. She still has no contact with them. She left a 3500sq foot home for somebody with more money. Didn't work out. Now she lives in a trailer two states away doing meth.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

As men and women are different, we tend to handle stress and disasters in life much different. Women in general look for emotional connections more than men do so I do think its natural that women will tend to discuss the problems with close friends. Someone they can connect with. Men tend to look for answers or other views and don’t want to look weak in front of close friends etc. We like forums, less personal connections when asking such questions because in our little heads we aren’t nearly as embarrassed or humiliated I guess. We don’t know anyone personally on here, its much easier to give an objective opinion because as men we aren’t as connected at all. 

Not really sure if that make sense or not but I think guys will understand it. Its just much easier for me to vent to the world via the internet than cry on my friends shoulders so to speak and I also know what my friends opinions are already going to be. I want different views so I don’t mind asking the world for them. Guys on forums I think also search for women perspective on things because in most of our worlds the only women we know are friends with our spouses thus it makes it hard to ask questions for fear of getting back to our wives. 

To answer your question, I know the stats will say its about 50/50 who betrays who with infidelity. In my own life, the last 10 people I know who got divorced. 8 were due to infidelity. 7 women left for other men. 1 guy left for another woman. 2 just hated each other.


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

And its sites like this that scare the living sh%t outta me about marriage.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

*Re: Re: Why is it mostly men here?*



kristin2349 said:


> I'm female and a "betrayed spouse" I can't talk to my normal support network or my family (aside from my closest girlfriend). I'm partway into a dreadfully tense Christmas Eve here. Reading and posting here is a place here I feel understood.
> 
> I'm usually the go to person for my friends and family. The fixer, I'll help you move, and I'll help you move a body if you've earned my friendship.
> 
> ...


I am glad you are here and relaxed and safe enough to unload your stress.. we are here to help each other.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Other sites, Surviving Infidelity in particular, have a lot more women on their boards.

My impression is that here at TAM a MUCH harder line is taken with cheaters, exposure, D, etc. than on other boards I've read through.

I think the hardline, and often blunt, approach taken in advice here is more appealing to betrayed males than women, generally speaking (though of course exceptions exist on both sides).


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Other sites, Surviving Infidelity in particular, have a lot more women on their boards.
> 
> My impression is that here at TAM a MUCH harder line is taken with cheaters, exposure, D, etc. than on other boards I've read through.
> 
> I think the hardline, and often blunt, approach taken in advice here is more appealing to betrayed males than women, generally speaking (though of course exceptions exist on both sides).


:iagree:

I think part of this is that many men feel that they have been subject to a double standard, and that this forum puts to lie to the myths that support it. 

By double standard I mean that men when they cheat are usually seen for what they are--cheaters--whereas women cheating are often but not always excused for several reasons: first, the old claim that women have affairs for love which they haven't been getting from their husbands, i.e. it's their husband's fault. Second, women are excused because of the jargon of empowerment. Men are pigs, women are empowering themselves. 

And last, I think that women are often better at justifying their affairs than men for the above reasons, which prevents men from expressing the feeling of deep hurt that comes from betrayal by their wives.

Times are changing and cheating wives are being given the benefit of the doubt less and less, and women who hide behind feelings of love and who accuse their husbands of neglect and god-knows-what-else are being unmasked for what they really are--extremely selfish. But the prejudice still hangs around.

Matter of fact it's the female posters on this board who are usually the first to see through the selfish attitude of many of the WWs.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Other sites, Surviving Infidelity in particular, have a lot more women on their boards.
> 
> My impression is that here at TAM a MUCH harder line is taken with cheaters, exposure, D, etc. than on other boards I've read through.
> 
> I think the hardline, and often blunt, approach taken in advice here is more appealing to betrayed males than women, generally speaking (though of course exceptions exist on both sides).


I'd agree with this. I think the dynamic is very different. I don't have any stats but for the most part of the men that I know that stepped out there was no "fog". They were jolted back to reality and once that happened they wanted their lives back. 

For the men on TAM a lot of their wives are in love with the OM, yes I said in love (I don't believe in fog). So even if they want to reconcile they have to figure out how to get the OM to dump their wife first.

I think the path to reconciliation is much easier if there aren't any feelings involved. I also think the hardline advice here would turn off a lot of women. Wayward spouses on TAM are slightly above serial killers in status. Some posters on CWI want other cheaters to pay for the things they let their spouse get away with, which is harmful to newbies seeking advice in my opinion.

I know the TAM script and the expose to *everybody* step is the one that a lot of women would probably have an issue with. Telling one or two close girlfriends for advice is one thing, but telling everybody really makes reconciliation difficult.


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint. When i have issues with my hb I very much want to know what men think, but it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I find this a sad fact. Only through knowing all sides can we hope to learn from this situation. I even like hearing from other men and women because the first rule of war is know thine enemy. 

But I love getting both the female bs and female ws perspectives and I do agree on this site in particular there is often a harsh backlash against others whom don't share a particular point of view particularly the poor ws who came here to try to improve themselves or their situation somehow. It's especially ridiculous when you think of how many ws could care less about trying anything to fix anything, they often just don't care because they are so selfish. So when a ws posts here, it's a valuable opportunity to show them that we support those trying to make a positive change in their own lives for the betterment of some bs out there.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

It was back in the 80's when I got cheated on by my first wife, I wish I would have had a place like this to vent back then.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> And its sites like this that scare the living sh%t outta me about marriage.


If you are only 21 listen to your "fear" you are too young to get married. Glad you are giving it thought, as well you should.

There are lots of other things you can do so you are making a wise choice when you do decide to get married.

If you look for someone with similar goals and core values that's is a great start. Have conversations and a clear understanding of what you expect. From if there will be kids, how will you handle money...then keep things going. Stay connected. It all sounds simple. Truth is, it's really hard work and being alone afraid of marriage or anti marriage isn't such a good answer. 

It's great that you are reading up. But you aren't getting the most optimistic view most times.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

PreRaphaelite said:


> Matter of fact it's the female posters on this board who are usually the first to see through the selfish attitude of many of the WWs.


Often, it's not just the female posters on TAM, but former wayward wives, themselves, who are the first to call out the selfish attitude of many of the WW's. 'Cuz we know it when we see it. And, I don't think anyone can call a WW on her mindset and actions as effectively as someone who has been one and is living with the repercussions to themselves and to their families.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

EI said:


> Often, it's not just the female posters on TAM, but former wayward wives, themselves, who are the first to call out the selfish attitude of many of the WW's. 'Cuz we know it when we see it. And, I don't think anyone can call a WW on her mindset and actions as effectively as someone who has been one and is living with the repercussions to themselves and to their families.



....I sometimes wish my wife would find this place and post "her side of the story" .....and see if she gets "called out" for her actions. She's had it way too g'damn easy in my opinion. You can hear the candy coated clinic-speak from a MC / IC ...but to hear it from those that live the 'real deal' ...I'd think ...may make her take notice about the impact of her actions.


_....that may be a bit off topic ...I apologize ...it's been 'not good' as of late
_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....I sometimes wish my wife would find this place and post "her side of the story" .....and see if she gets "called out" for her actions. She's had it way too g'damn easy in my opinion. You can hear the candy coated clinic-speak from a MC / IC ...but to hear it from those that live the 'real deal' ...I'd think ...may make her take notice about the impact of her actions.
> 
> 
> _....that may be a bit off topic ...I apologize ...it's been 'not good' as of late
> _


If you feel comfortable doing so, tell your wife about TAM. Ask her if she would be interested in reading some of the threads and/or posting her story. I posted my story 2 1/2 weeks after D-Day. In an odd twist of fate, a day or two later, my husband googled something something specific to our situation and found TAM. My story was brand new and close to the top of the page. He knew it was our story as soon as he read it. He started his own thread and the rest is history. Our marriage was about as irreconcilable as they come. Now, 1 1/2 years later, our marriage truly is happier and healthier than it had been for the previous 28 years. It isn't necessary to "take my word for it," as we have shared our story on here, together. It couldn't hurt for you to ask her. It might even help. You've been on TAM long enough to know what to expect. It might be the eye opener that she needs. She needs to understand what you're going through. Strangely enough, it took me hearing it from BS's other than my husband. At the time, I just couldn't grasp it coming from him. I don't really know your story so this may or may not be the best advice. 

I hope things get better for you. Your username kind of says it all. 


Sorry for the thread jack, OP.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?



Nope, women don't cheat more often. In my case, after being accused of _trollism_, I decided to delete my thread and keep my "sorrows" to myself.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

It's always dicey to make generalizations, Adriana, per the prior quote you highlight. 
What you say has value to some of us, so it's regrettable that your prior posts were purged. Thanks for speaking up.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint...it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that may be because the guys who post here are mostly men who have been "burned" - badly, as well as quite recently. Within a year or two after D-Day especially, it could be easy for some very hurt guys to lump "all women" together and think women have little to contribute that they would be interested in hearing.

Unfortunately, this tone has probably turned off a lot of female BS's, who may read just enough to decide they won't post their stories here and risk dealing with the hostility when they've got the betrayal to deal with too.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

ankh said:


> It's always dicey to make generalizations, Adriana, per the prior quote you highlight.
> What you say has value to some of us, so it's regrettable that your prior posts were purged. Thanks for speaking up.



I agree with you that generalizations can be very misleading but I wasn't really trying to make any in my previous post. I only said that percentage of married men, who wear wayward's hat, is higher than percentage of married women who venture into the cheating side of town. This is a fact.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sv: Re: Why is it mostly men here?*



adriana said:


> I agree with you that generalizations can be very misleading but I wasn't really trying to make any in my previous post. I only said that percentage of married men, who wear wayward's hat, is higher than percentage of married women who venture into the cheating side of town. This is a fact.


I would be interested in seeing the sources, surveys and data that support this fact - so would you be so kind to link to the sources?


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

adriana said:


> I only said that percentage of married men, who wear wayward's hat, is higher than percentage of married women who venture into the cheating side of town. This is a fact.


But I fear you are not taking things in any equality, personally I think it more a 50/50 split between genders.

I would like to hear your personal story for myself, feel free to PM me as I think possibly your points may have been missed by others, been in both seats and know how it goes 

This place we have all come to is a special place where we can reveal our inner most demons without fear of prejudices from friends families and co-workers who may try to manipulate us with knowledge of such deep hurt and pain, from the outside it is often better to seem as though even though they know, they don't know enough to hurt you more! This is a guys POV afraid to say.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I won't argue statistics, maybe they're right, maybe not
Just in personal experience, the overwhelming number of W's have been women. It is kind of freaky! 
It is literally about a 1/25 ratio of men/women
I won't dispute any others experience or gathered statistics, but this is just what I have seen.

These are all folks I have known, I can put a name and face to each one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I've got no facts but I ain't buying the women cheat more than men thing at all. I even balk at the the notion of 50/50. There is a reason why there is a general perception in the media that men cheat more. Its because its true. The only difference in my opinion is that its easier for a woman to find a willing partner to cheat with than it is for most men. However, their motivations for cheating are vastly different from ours so it pretty much evens out. Very few married women are out here saying, "Hey boys come and get it!".

For all the talk of the danger of girl's outings on TAM, the real danger is the guy in the next cubicle over, your neighbor, or her boss. Typically women want some sort of connection (real or imaginary) with the person before it becomes a PA. There are exceptions of course.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I think it may seem that more women cheat because when they do, it's a full-fledged love affair and becomes a big drama. Very few women are into the ONS thing. So by the time they are busted, they are "in love" and ready to start a new life with their Prince Charming. They want to dump their H and blow up their entire lives.

There are a lot of men who are never discovered because they will "hit it and quit it". They will have ONS from bars or business trips, hire prostitutes, go to strip clubs, etc. They can hide it better if it's just sex because in their minds, many still "love" their wives in their own, warped way. How many who were not caught are actually going to admit to it anyway to a random statistician??? No, I do not have any numbers other than my own eyeballs with friends and reading articles.

I believe that the number of men who cheat is significantly higher than women. And I'm not sure if there is anything that could convince me otherwise.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*From a purely hypothetical and statistical standpoint, all heterosexual affairs are at a 50/50 split, as the willing partners of the cheater, whether they are married or not, are just as culpible as the cheater in the destructive process of infidelity.

Now there are a few remote situations where married women leave their husbands for other women, and married husbands leave their wives for other men, but I feel that that is greatly the exception rather than the rule.

I would think that the fairer question would be "which gender is responsible for the initiation of infidelity more often?"*


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I think it may seem that more women cheat because when they do, it's a full-fledged love affair and becomes a big drama. Very few women are into the ONS thing. So by the time they are busted, they are "in love" and ready to start a new life with their Prince Charming. They want to dump their H and blow up their entire lives.
> 
> There are a lot of men who are never discovered because they will "hit it and quit it". They will have *ONS from bars or business trips, hire prostitutes, go to strip clubs, etc. They can hide it better if it's just sex because in their minds, many still "love" their wives in their own, warped way.* How many who were not caught are actually going to admit to it anyway to a random statistician??? No, I do not have any numbers other than my own eyeballs with friends and reading articles.
> 
> I believe that the number of men who cheat is significantly higher than women. And I'm not sure if there is anything that could convince me otherwise.


You said what I said but better. The items in bold are how most men go about cheating.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I think it may seem that more women cheat because when they do, it's a full-fledged love affair and becomes a big drama. Very few women are into the ONS thing. So by the time they are busted, they are "in love" and ready to start a new life with their Prince Charming. They want to dump their H and blow up their entire lives.
> 
> There are a lot of men who are never discovered because they will "hit it and quit it". They will have ONS from bars or business trips, hire prostitutes, go to strip clubs, etc. They can hide it better if it's just sex because in their minds, many still "love" their wives in their own, warped way. How many who were not caught are actually going to admit to it anyway to a random statistician??? No, I do not have any numbers other than my own eyeballs with friends and reading articles.
> 
> I believe that the number of men who cheat is significantly higher than women. And I'm not sure if there is anything that could convince me otherwise.


That is a great point! All of my examples were women breaking up their families for om
So people who are just "hit it and quit it" are far more concealed.

Great perspective. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *From a purely hypothetical and statistical standpoint, all heterosexual affairs are at a 50/50 split, as the willing partners of the cheater, whether they are married or not, are just as culpible as the cheater in the destructive process of infidelity.
> 
> Now there are a few remote situations where married women leave their husbands for other women, and married husbands leave their wives for other men, but I feel that that is greatly the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> I would think that the fairer question would be "which gender is responsible for the initiation of infidelity more often?"*


In these statistics, I would only include married participants. Obviously it's 50/50 on who is having actual sex but I do not think you should include single women and sex workers in the data. They are not technically cheating and they are not to be blamed for the WH's bad behavior. 

As far as which gender initiates cheating more, I'd still say men. While I'm sure there are bold married women who will go into a bar, grab a guy and say "Let's get out of here, baby" or set her sights on the nice man in the next cubicle at work, I think they are in the minority. Women will open up to a man emotionally who initiates a friendship or shows her attention, and eventually give it up sexually because she has poor boundaries, low self-worth and/or plain old bad morals. But I still think the man senses she is easy prey and will push to see how far he can get.

Feel free to disagree. I think these discussions on TAM are extremely helpful in learning how the sexes think and relate to each other. If I've learned nothing else on here, it's that men and women see things with different points of view.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

Most of the time the cheater is doing it with another cheater so for every cheating woman mentioned here there is most likely a cheating man. Usually people call them "OM".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I could be wrong but I do think women cheat more than men these days but its more a change of the times and our society. I think men did do far more cheating over the years but I think that is now changing. 

I found this. 

Why People Cheat: 12 Differences Between Men And Women

I would like to think someday there would be no cheating but we don't live in a perfect world and never will. 

Clay


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

*Poorly received, politically incorrect and yet strikingly frank, refreshing and accurate comment concerning the indisputable biological and psychological differences between males and females*


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

I began posting my problems on-line because I was too embarassed to tell any of my friends that my ex-wife was cheating on me.

I also wanted unbiased opinions from the outside looking in.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> For all the talk of the danger of girl's outings on TAM, the real danger is the guy in the next cubicle over, your neighbor, or her boss. Typically women want some sort of connection (real or imaginary) with the person before it becomes a PA. There are exceptions of course.





yeah_right said:


> I think it may seem that more women cheat because when they do, it's a full-fledged love affair and becomes a big drama. Very few women are into the ONS thing. So by the time they are busted, they are "in love" and ready to start a new life with their Prince Charming. They want to dump their H and blow up their entire lives.


As a former WW, I couldn't agree more with these statements. In every case of infidelity that I am personally aware of, (not those on TAM) this has always been the case for the female partner in the affair. I can't imagine a long-time married woman having a series of ONS's or serial affairs. I know there are always exceptions and I know that there are several on TAM, including the wife of "the guy," the wife of "Headspin," and a few others. But, I do believe that they are the rare exceptions for women and not the general rule. Most women are seeking an emotional connection that they feel is missing in their marriage. I'm not here to argue that they should have handled it differently, because I think we all know that that goes without saying. I, also, believe that in "most affairs" that men are seeking sex without an emotional connection or a long-term commitment and women are seeking the emotional connection above all else. When a woman has already checked out of her marriage, and she feels that an emotional connection has been made with her AP, even if unbeknownst to her, it is only one-sided, the sexual part of the relationship will likely soon follow. When that happens, for a woman, it is going to be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, for her to fully recommit to her marriage. And, from reading TAM, I believe that with these types affairs, it is even more unlikely that her BS will ever be able to recover and heal sufficiently enough to trust, much less forgive, even the most repentant, remorseful, and willing to do the heavy lifting, WS. All of which is absolutely vital to truly reconcile the relationship...... Which is far different than simply remaining married.

The above is a very accurate description of what happened in my own marriage. Again, is reconciliation likely in these situations? I don't think it is. Is is possible? So far, so good! It's been over 1 1/2 years since D-Day and our marriage is unbelievably amazing, now. B1 and I have never given so much of ourselves to anything in our entire lives. Maybe, the fact that our marriage was already so damaged, pre-A, meant that if we stayed together, we had nowhere to go but up. Or, maybe, just maybe, when both partners are willing to look in the mirror, work on changing themselves, first, then putting 100% of their efforts towards healing their relationship, almost anything is possible.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

When I left my wife after DDay, I literally had no one to talk to. I have alot of male friends, but most of these guys are all burly, macho types, and I knew if I told them I would be a laughing stock. 

I for one have a very hard time talking about my marital woes with my family. TAM has been the best resource I ever could have found. The help I recieved here is undescribable.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

BashfulBull said:


> When I left my wife after DDay, I literally had no one to talk to. I have alot of male friends, but most of these guys are all burly, macho types, and I knew if I told them I would be a laughing stock.
> 
> I for one have a very hard time talking about my marital woes with my family. TAM has been the best resource I ever could have found. The help I recieved here is undescribable.


I do agree with that. It was like I was really alone. Especially with having custody of my four kids. I thought I was going to go crazy at times. I ended up being hospitalized over stress and worked its way into an infection in my leg. I never really thought you could get that physically ill from being stressed out. Two weeks in the ICU and a couple weeks in the regular hospital rooms has taught me how to reevaluate my life. My current Dr. Is the one that really nailed it. I keep things in focus and don't think I am superman anymore lol 

Clay


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> As a women I'd say that it's more socially acceptable for a woman to cheat then it used to be. Men have always cheated/had mistresses, but it was accepted provided he didn't abandon his family.


It was never accepted except by those who would cheat themselves.




> One thing that strikes me as a woman on the board is how hostile many of the men are to a female perspective that disagrees with the majority male viewpoint.


Can you give an example? Because the only thing I could see anyone being hostile about is if a woman comes here and makes excuses for female cheating.

Otherwise I cannot see why anyone would be hostile towards a woman for having a differing viewpoint unless that viewpoint was offensive.




> When i have issues with my hb I very much want to know what men think, but it seems the men here aren't terribly interested in what women have to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm interested up to the point that excuses are being made.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> For all the talk of the danger of girl's outings on TAM, the real danger is the guy in the next cubicle over, your neighbor, or her boss. Typically women want some sort of connection (real or imaginary) with the person before it becomes a PA. There are exceptions of course.


I agree. But there are certain venues/behaviors/activities that are more conducive to cheating.

You can't avoid all situations where it is possible. People have to work. People have to live, most of the time, next to a neighbor.

You just have to make the boundaries, cut out the inappropriate activities/behaviors, and hope for the best.


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## hopeful101 (Nov 6, 2013)

I agree with some of the earlier posts in that often women are talking about this with their girlfriends and men don't really talk about this kind of stuff with other men so they need an outlet like this more than women do.

My husband ended up starting an EA because he found another woman also with marital problems and they connected. Talking about their problem spouses. I found this site hoping to get the male perspective. I have perspective from my girlfriends who agree with me that the relationship is inappropriate regardless of whether it's an EA, PA or even truly just friends, not okay to seek out another woman in the way he has. I think I would rather he had found this site and done his venting via posts. 

I wonder if there is a component of time, availability that differs between sexes. I know in my case with a job, kids, etc, I don't have time to seek out an extramarital affair of any kind. My husband for sure has quite a bit of free time and I wonder if many men also do. It's easier to find time for other people when you dont have kids to pick up from school and practice, grocery shopping, errand running, etc. This isn't to say men in general are more helpful at home these days, but looking at just my immediate friends group, the moms are still the primary worker bees when it comes to home/family.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

hopeful101 said:


> I agree with some of the earlier posts in that often women are talking about this with their girlfriends and men don't really talk about this kind of stuff with other men so they need an outlet like this more than women do.
> 
> My husband ended up starting an EA because he found another woman also with marital problems and they connected. Talking about their problem spouses. I found this site hoping to get the male perspective. I have perspective from my girlfriends who agree with me that the relationship is inappropriate regardless of whether it's an EA, PA or even truly just friends, not okay to seek out another woman in the way he has. I think I would rather he had found this site and done his venting via posts.
> 
> I wonder if there is a component of time, availability that differs between sexes. I know in my case with a job, kids, etc, I don't have time to seek out an extramarital affair of any kind. My husband for sure has quite a bit of free time and I wonder if many men also do. It's easier to find time for other people when you dont have kids to pick up from school and practice, grocery shopping, errand running, etc. This isn't to say men in general are more helpful at home these days, but looking at just my immediate friends group, the moms are still the primary worker bees when it comes to home/family.


If you havent noticed in most of these threads, most WS's always find time somewhere in their day.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Janky said:


> If you havent noticed in most of these threads, most WS's always find time somewhere in their day.



Oh yeah they do! That blew me away. On paper I'd be the more likely, more time, career exposure to lots of different men. There is a huge "social aspect" to my work. It's also an industry that has a wide acceptance for this kind of behavior. I'm a loyal person. I wouldn't do that. Even if it were only "word gets around" and always being that woman who is talked about in that way. 

So my H is a high level exec and they are a rather stiff organization. So many supposed standards of integrity. As a Sr. VP he's held to a higher standard. Well he found plenty of time in his busy schedule (and during the EA he was oh so "busy"). He found the time that a teen on summer break seems to have to talk and text. I was a total shocker. 

I think as far as the men here there are many that offer a POV I find intersting (it can be eye opening, informative and sometimes both bawdy and funny)

Life would be so boring if we were all alike. I take what advice works and it was a male poster that saved my sanity and gave me a roadmap on what to do and NOT do (thank you again Weightlifter). If so someone posts things that I find "anti" women or other things that I just don't agree with. I move on. To each his own. There will always be that "H3ll hath no fury" thing. And the betrayed men, well it has always existed but it takes time to evolve to dealing with it.


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## Alecto (Sep 16, 2012)

I agree that it is often because of difference in support networks between men and women. And that men hesitate to tell the people in their life at first because it makes them appear weak.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I think it may seem that more women cheat because when they do, it's a full-fledged love affair and becomes a big drama. Very few women are into the ONS thing. So by the time they are busted, they are "in love" and ready to start a new life with their Prince Charming. They want to dump their H and blow up their entire lives.
> 
> There are a lot of men who are never discovered because they will "hit it and quit it". They will have ONS from bars or business trips, hire prostitutes, go to strip clubs, etc. They can hide it better if it's just sex because in their minds, many still "love" their wives in their own, warped way. How many who were not caught are actually going to admit to it anyway to a random statistician??? No, I do not have any numbers other than my own eyeballs with friends and reading articles.
> 
> I believe that the number of men who cheat is significantly higher than women. And I'm not sure if there is anything that could convince me otherwise.


Cheating males are also more likely to aim for a younger OW, which statistically speaking, means there are probably considerably more single OW than single OM. So when men cheat, most of the time there IS another marriage harmed besides their own, to be sure; but there are even MORE likely to be two marriages affected when women cheat. It may be a relatively small percentage of OW who are single, but I suspect young women in their 20's are frequent "targets" so it's probably not a tiny percentage of OW who are unmarried. (Other OW may be slightly older than that and "between husbands" - lonely, and "ripe for the picking.")

Also, cheating guys often remove their wedding rings and lie to the OW about their married status - so you can't even blame these OW for being "home wreckers" in some of the shorter affairs (where men get away with lying to the OW for awhile without getting caught) or in the "hit it and quit it" situations. But it's a rare woman who will remove her wedding rings, for a ONS or short term affair, because she thinks it will make it easier to get some guy into bed with her.

We may disagree about this, but I think the number of men who post here relative to the number of women who post doesn't at all represent what's actually going on in terms of who's cheating more. But I think all the BS's can agree that all BS's - whatever gender - experience pain unlike anything they ever imagined.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

As a male BS I came here seeking support and understanding. I do agree that men have less of a social network. I can only think of two people I ever told of my wife's A one was my mother in law the other my boss. My mother in law was one of my best counselors my boss I only told due to my guilty feeling that my performance had slipped at work. I agree with Hopefullgirl that the pain is unlike anything you can ever imagine. I think all genders just want to heel to find some answer to what and why it happened. This site does seem to be more prone to the male BS. An A happens according the to the opportunities that one has, at one time it was males with more opportunities now it seems more even. I think we all, male or female BS are just seeking answers.


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## Line In The Sand (Nov 15, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?



Well my wife still claims they were just friends, but she still knows it was wrong though!


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Alecto said:


> I agree that it is often because of difference in support networks between men and women. And that men hesitate to tell the people in their life at first because it makes them appear weak.


Yes. A man who appears weak drives people away.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

johnAdams said:


> As a male BS I came here seeking support and understanding. I do agree that men have less of a social network. I can only think of two people I ever told of my wife's A one was my mother in law the other my boss. My mother in law was one of my best counselors my boss I only told due to my guilty feeling that my performance had slipped at work. I agree with Hopefullgirl that the pain is unlike anything you can ever imagine. * I think all genders just want to heel to find some answer to what and why it happened. * This site does seem to be more prone to the male BS. An A happens according the to the opportunities that one has, at one time it was males with more opportunities now it seems more even. * I think we all, male or female BS are just seeking answers.*


.....I agree ...we look for answers. We look for the "Why"? and ....the "Why me"?

....but ...given the "*no one can understand it unless they had it happen to them*" pain ...I think we (the BS's) ...also are looking for someone to say, _"You are not crazy, you are not insane, you are not hallucinating, and you are not faking it or seeking unjustified sympathy_" ....because it does hurt and it does destroy and invade almost every aspect of you conscious and subconscious existence.


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## 60+ (Nov 18, 2013)

Heard something so true on a movie yesterday: "Women get married and hope that their husbands will change. Men get married and hope that their wives will never change".
The thing about confiding on this forum being different for men and women is so true. I simply couldn't hide the way I was feeling and would break down into tears in the middle of nowhere....in front of friends. I see that (obviously) this would be a sign of weakness in a man. But I can't believe that if you are a man, and have been cheated on, it doesn't show...? At work...? Don't kid yourselves, men. People KNOW. They just don't pry when it is man. And I agree - what could be better than this forum for asking for advice? Some of it is pure vitriol, but some of it is carefully thought out. Take what you need and discard the rest.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

60+ said:


> Heard something so true on a movie yesterday: "Women get married and hope that their husbands will change. Men get married and hope that their wives will never change".


Ugh. Except for those of us who thought we had married men who placed a high value on integrity. WE hoped our husbands would NEVER change.

Then D-Day came....


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

A BH comes here because he has no where else to go. He is afraid and embarrassed about the situation. The only person who he has ever shown his feelings to had betrayed him.

Another thing relating to a BH. A BH comes here for reassurance rather than advice. He is hoping his wife is not cheating even though he knows she is. That is why he needs overwhelming evidence to confront.

A BH who know that his wife if cheating comes here for reassurance that everything will be ok. 

Women take advice better than men. Men who come here will glom on to what they want to hear rather than take advice.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

PreRaphaelite said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think part of this is that many men feel that they have been subject to a double standard, and that this forum puts to lie to the myths that support it.
> 
> ...


I see it rather the other way around. The standard advice given to men with cheating wives is "throw her to the curb NOW", whereas a cheating husband is, in my opinion, often given the benefit of the doubt because the wife puts intolerable demands on him, like asking for more affection.

Apologies for the bitterness, but this time of year it tends to build up in me.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

I also see it differently than PreRaphaelite. It's mostly *men *on this forum that make it a point that women have affairs for different reasons: love, emotions, than men: sex, physical. Which is not true in my opinion. The reason is totally up to the person having the affair but gender has no play in this.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I am glad john found this place to help him sort through his anguish. I think there are a few here that offer very good advice. I have thanked them for their help.


There is something so patronizing about this post.....


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

CouldItBeSo said:


> I also see it differently than PreRaphaelite. It's mostly *men *on this forum that make it a point that women have affairs for different reasons: love, emotions, than men: sex, physical. Which is not true in my opinion. The reason is totally up to the person having the affair but gender has no play in this.


Well...there are of course variances but if you look at the majority of women that cheat and the majority of the men that cheat you will see that these stereotypes hold true. 

Its not your fault but I always found it odd why people on TAM argue about this. Its not like one reason for cheating is worse than the other. There is no acceptable reason for either sex.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...there are of course variances but if you look at the majority of women that cheat and the majority of the men that cheat you will see that these stereotypes hold true.
> 
> Its not your fault but I always found it odd why people on TAM argue about this. Its not like one reason for cheating is worse than the other. There is no acceptable reason for either sex.


In my opinion your take on it tries to deny the fact that women are sexual beings, just like men are.


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## ankh (Oct 14, 2012)

Women are very sexual!


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

ntamph said:


> Most posts here are from betrayed husbands (really the overwhelming majority) and few from wives. Does this mean that women cheat more often? I thought men cheated at a rate slightly higher than women but here it's.............different?


No, men chea far more then women it's not even close!! Go look on other infidelity forums and it's mostly women.

Every divorced couple I know it was because of the man either cheating or acting the fool. 

I know 1 woman that cheated! 

Every guy I know has philandered at least little bit don't believe this skewed forum.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, since no one cares about sources or facts, I'll say that the above is simply not true. Women cheat approx. four times as much as men.

I've done a field study in my own network resulting in an 80/20 ratio, true story, so it probably applies to all couples as a general rule of thumb.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> No, men chea far more then women it's not even close!! Go look on other infidelity forums and it's mostly women.
> 
> Every divorced couple I know it was because of the man either cheating or acting the fool.
> 
> ...


You appear to have deleted the thread where your premise was slapped down....


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## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

There was a joke by comedian Corey Holbcomb that I found hilarious that kinda relates to this situation. He jokes about how his wife cheating on him is way worse than when he cheats on her. Because unlike him, she actually has feelings for her lovers 

Guess that can kinda be true. For dudes, there is a better chance of it just being physical, but for women, definitely some potential swap and replace action in the works emotionally.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ankh said:


> Women are very sexual!


Of course women are sexual. I'm a former wayward and if I was better at saying no I wouldn't have nearly ruined my life. I don't argue that men and women do the same things I just think we have different ways of going about it and often times different motives.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)

cpacan said:


> Well, since no one cares about sources or facts, I'll say that the above is simply not true. Women cheat approx. four times as much as men.
> 
> I've done a field study in my own network resulting in an 80/20 ratio, true story, so it probably applies to all couples as a general rule of thumb.


With who they cheat? Is it with married men...? These studies always forget to take the affair partner into account.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Its not your fault but I always found it odd why people on TAM argue about this. Its not like one reason for cheating is worse than the other. There is no acceptable reason for either sex.


You are correct. However many folks stop right there. Once there is a cheating spouse, how that spouse was treated falls off the map. As a result divorce is often the only real way out.

If more betrayed spouses would realize that the marriage was in deep trouble *before* the affair and if they were willing to work at that, there would be more reconciliations.

If anyone is interested they should review the thread started by EI and continued by her husband B1. Not only was she jumped on for CHEATING, but many folks hardly bothered to even read her (and later her husband's) postings. In the end the mods banned what seemed to be a large number of people just to get things back on track.

But EI and B1 kept their eyes on the facts of their marriage and what needed to be done to make it work. And they made it work in spite of the fact that many here said it never could because she CHEATED.

We should all take a lesson from this. Each case is individual and cheating is a symptom of a major disease in a marriage. But our job here is to help and, if possible, cure the disease and preserve the marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> You are correct. However many folks stop right there. Once there is a cheating spouse, how that spouse was treated falls off the map. As a result divorce is often the only real way out.
> 
> If more betrayed spouses would realize that the marriage was in deep trouble *before* the affair and if they were willing to work at that, there would be more reconciliations.
> 
> ...


There are some people at TAM who mistake every WS for their WS, They often attack Waywards at TAM with the zingers they either didn't think of at the time they were confronting their wayward, or were not brave enough to use at the time.

And then there are those who only have a hammer in their toolbox. And to someone who only has a hammer, every screw, nut or bolt looks like a nail.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

CouldItBeSo said:


> With who they cheat? Is it with married men...? *These studies always forget to take the affair partner into account.*


*The one thing that is rarely ever taken into exception is that when one person cheats on their spouse, there is always an accomplice to the crime!*


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Bologna again!! There is no datat that supports women cheat more than men NONE while every ounce of logic proves otherwise.

Follow the $$$ what gender spends billions of dollars a year for sex related activities? It's not females!!

Almost every guy I know cheats, has cheated, while almost every girl by the age of 18 has been cheated on. This is ridiculous that some of you could even come to this conclusion!!


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> Bologna again!! There is no datat that supports women cheat more than men NONE while every ounce of logic proves otherwise.
> 
> Follow the $$$ what gender spends billions of dollars a year for sex related activities? It's not females!!
> 
> Almost every guy I know cheats, has cheated, while almost every girl by the age of 18 has been cheated on. This is ridiculous that some of you could even come to this conclusion!!


I am fascinated that so many people on both sides feel so strongly about this. All I know is that up until a few decades ago it was inconceivable that women were capable of murder. Often times they could conceivably get away with killing several husbands because no one thought women would kill out of malice. Juries were also very reluctant to convict female murderers and often gave them drastically reduced sentences if anything at all. This is no longer the case.

Sorry but I don't have wool pulled over my eyes. Women not only cheat, but for the most part they are better at it than men. Because so many people naively assume its not in their nature. I'm not going to say women cheat more than men, but I do object to reasoning that implies they are all innocent. Are you saying the ones that cheat are only doing so because they've been hurt?


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am fascinated that so many people on both sides feel so strongly about this. All I know is that up until a few decades ago it was inconceivable that women were capable of murder. Often times they could conceivably get away with killing several husbands because no one thought women would kill out of malice. Juries were also very reluctant to convict female murderers and often gave them drastically reduced sentences if anything at all. This is no longer the case.
> 
> Sorry but I don't have wool pulled over my eyes. Women not only cheat, but for the most part they are better at it than men. Because so many people naively assume its not in their nature. I'm not going to say women cheat more than men, but I do object to reasoning that implies they are all innocent. Are you saying the ones that cheat are only doing so because they've been hurt?


Blah blah blah...........and men still commit over 95% of all murders, so your point is what? 

NO, don't read into what I said and add meaning that is not there. 

Men cheat far far far more than women! Billions of dollars in industry is supported soley thorugh men's desire to see, have, and search for sex. Escort sites, porn sites, the whole industry is male driven.

Some here are going to say "Yeah, but women cheat more!!" bull to the Nth degree.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> There are some people at TAM who mistake every WS for their WS, They often attack Waywards at TAM with the zingers they either didn't think of at the time they were confronting their wayward, or were not brave enough to use at the time.


Agreed. Hell, some of them attack the betrayed for deciding to R because their spouse did it, yours will to. Thats one thing I've like about you Mattmatt....every post i've read from you actually offers insight and is helpful.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Quote of EI
> When a woman has already checked out of her marriage, and she feels that an emotional connection has been made with her AP, even if unbeknownst to her, it is only one-sided, the sexual part of the relationship will likely soon follow. When that happens, for a woman, it is going to be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, for her to fully recommit to her marriage. And, from reading TAM, *I believe that with these types affairs, it is even more unlikely that her BS will ever be able to recover and heal sufficiently enough to trust, much less forgive, even the most repentant, remorseful, and willing to do the heavy lifting, WS. All of which is absolutely vital to truly reconcile the relationship...... Which is far different than simply remaining married.*




I usually agree with just about everything that EI writes. However, I may not agree with what is written in bold above. The reason that I say “May not” is that her statement may not be SPECIFIC enough.

I am a BS that has recovered enough to trust at around a 90% trust factor.
I am a BS that has forgiven at least a 90% forgiveness factor


These 90% factors are better than “…simply remaining married”
Do I think that I am an exception? Probably, based upon the TAM posts that I have read.



As far as 100% trust, I no longer believe that you can trust anyone 100%. People are just human and have weaknesses and in the right circumstances can fail trust.

*If EI is saying that a BS male cannot “..recover enough and heal enough sufficiently enough to trust, much less forgive…” then I disagree with EI. I disagree based upon my experience.*


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> Blah blah blah...........and men still commit over 95% of all murders, so your point is what?
> 
> NO, don't read into what I said and add meaning that is not there.
> 
> ...


In my earlier post I agreed that men have a tendency to stray more than women. My issue is that your viewpoint does not appear to be any different/better than the men that are saying its all on the women. Its just as biased. I think the reality is somewhere in between, especially when you throw EAs into the mix.

Regarding the billion dollar industry, I'll concede that men are more visually stimulated sexually than women. But that doesn't mean that every man who looks at adult material is acheater or future cheater. It just means they enjoy the fantasy, I don't have a problem with this although I know that many do.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

OhGeesh said:


> Follow the $$$ what gender spends billions of dollars a year for sex related activities? It's not females!!


You posted the very same thing in a thread you started and then deleted it. I presume because you didn't like our replies... so here it is again:

Women don't have to pay for sex. They can just get it by offering it. That's why there is no industry around offering it to women.

Most guys have to 'pay' one way or another. Only the most "alpha" dudes can bed a woman with a few minutes of charm. All the rest of them men have to either buy it, or develop some level of relationship with the women. Hence the men who take the easy way out and dump the money into getting it.



OhGeesh said:


> Almost every guy I know cheats, has cheated, while almost every girl by the age of 18 has been cheated on.


Anecdotes are not data. It only proves that you know more scumbag dudes than scumbag women. That and you're probably young. I would say that if you look at the 40 y/o crowd, the women WAY outnumber the men who are cheating.



OhGeesh said:


> This is ridiculous that some of you could even come to this conclusion!!


Perhaps consider that other people have different experiences than you? My mom cheated on my dad, my SIL cheated on my brother, my sis on her first husband. As far as anyone else knows, the other way around didn't happen in any of those cases.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Agreed. Hell, some of them attack the betrayed for deciding to R because their spouse did it, yours will to. Thats one thing I've like about you Mattmatt....every post i've read from you actually offers insight and is helpful.


:iagree:

I don't always agree with him, but he's always thought out his positions and is very helpful to people. A HUGE asset to TAM.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> Blah blah blah...........and men still commit over 95% of all murders, so your point is what?
> 
> NO, don't read into what I said and add meaning that is not there.
> 
> ...



Someone's gettin' awful upset :lol:


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> Bologna again!! There is no datat that supports women cheat more than men NONE while every ounce of logic proves otherwise.
> 
> Follow the $$$ what gender spends billions of dollars a year for sex related activities? It's not females!!
> 
> Almost every guy I know cheats, has cheated, while almost every girl by the age of 18 has been cheated on. This is ridiculous that some of you could even come to this conclusion!!


I'm sorry Ms. Ogeesh... From my personal world, 60-70% of the divorces were caused by cheating females and 30-40% were by cheating males. It is a very small sample yet it shows me that in today's society women all just as bad as men.

I'm sorry you were cheated on [/BEGIN SARCASM] You don't seem bitter at all.[/END SARCASM].

People are people. You find a good one, you keep them close. It is funny. I ran into a woman I knew at the gym yesterday. She knows my EX as well and as we were talking she kept bringing up my EX. I finally told her thank you, I now have the energy to do my next set. She replied something to the effect that it's water under the bridge, can't we all just get along.

I do NOT have a single friend who is a cheater. I never did and I never will. I have always considered it a huge character flaw and I will not associate with people like that. That includes my EX. I will deal with her as I need to but as for the rest, she can go pound sand.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> I'm sorry Ms. Ogeesh... From my personal world, 60-70% of the divorces were caused by cheating females and 30-40% were by cheating males. It is a very small sample yet it shows me that in today's society women all just as bad as men.
> 
> I'm sorry you were cheated on [/BEGIN SARCASM] You don't seem bitter at all.[/END SARCASM].
> 
> ...



Ouch, ouch, itch, itch!  I hate getting sand in my clothes and in my shoes......  (Said in the kindest possible FWS way ever! )


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> Bologna again!! There is no datat that supports women cheat more than men NONE while every ounce of logic proves otherwise.
> 
> *Follow the $$$ what gender spends billions of dollars a year for sex related activities? It's not females!!*
> 
> Almost every guy I know cheats, has cheated, while almost every girl by the age of 18 has been cheated on. This is ridiculous that some of you could even come to this conclusion!!


Heh.. heh. heh he hee.

Shall I be.. "marked" as a sexist if I say "Females don't have to" at this point? Heh. heh. hee...

I most certainly will be. So I'm keeping quiet. Sssh. Don't let anybody hear that. It's our secret.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

EI said:


> Ouch, ouch, itch, itch!  I hate getting sand in my clothes and in my shoes......  (Said in the kindest possible FWS way ever! )


EI, I have to say in all honesty, every cheater that I know personally has never shown remorse. They all feel entitled or they don't know what contrition is. There are many people/cheaters on this forum that have been truly remorseful and that I respect. You are one of them, but again I have never met you personally. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> EI, I have to say in all honesty, every cheater that I know personally has never shown remorse. They all feel entitled or they don't know what contrition is. There are many people/cheaters on this forum that have been truly remorseful and that I respect. You are one of them, but again I have never met you personally. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.


Unfortunately, if you were to read my posts, on this forum, that began in June, 2012, you would see one of those WS's who felt entitled and who felt no remorse for their cheating. My only real remorse, at that time, was that my BS was hurting because of my cheating. More than anything else, I felt defiant, defensive, and angry. I felt that I, too, had been hurt, by my BS, prior to my A. I was truly incapable, at that time, of separating the marriage that was already horribly broken, pre-A, from my choice to be unfaithful. I wasn't intentionally failing to separate the two, I was quite simply too broken to see it then. That isn't an excuse or a justification for what I did. It is simply a fact. 

The truth is, our old marriage, as it was, was beyond repair years ago. What my affair destroyed wasn't my marriage; it was myself, my husband, my children........ We're rebuilding our lives and our marriage...... from the ground up. And, by the grace of God, and with some help from TAM, we're doing very, very well. 

I guess that's why I stay on TAM. I want to be able to give hope to the hopeless (like I was.) I've shared the good, the bad, and everything in between, because I want to paint a very clear picture of what once seemed to be a hopeless, ugly, broken, beyond repair, marriage. It's been 19 months since D-Day. I would say that the "hysterical bonding" period would surely be over by now. But, for some reason, everything just keeps getting better and better in every aspect of our relationship. I have never loved this man as much as I love him now. And, I have never felt as loved as he makes me feel now. Our life is still quite challenging, but we are, over the top, deliriously happy. It's almost ridiculous. 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, and yours, as well!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I for one do thank you EI for posting your story and continuing to post. People at times may not agree with what I post and people may not agree with what you post but we are all here to learn and gain a better understanding of both sides of the fence. People like to live in a black and white world but the reality is most of us live in the shades of grey.

This site is a great learning tool to help people, The more knowledge and understanding we have whether we agree or disagree will make us better people and better able to deal with situations in the future


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Stats on cheating are not perfect, but the research that is out there suggests that men cheated more than women historically but woman have largely caught up.

Men spend more money on certain aspects of sex. Women spend money on clothes, cosmetics and romance fiction. Both behaviors are driven by inverse aspects of the same drive to reproduce.

Men and women both have strong sex drives but they are not identical in timing. Childbrith and menopause are both enormous events in a woman's reproductive life. Thus, cheating behavior changes over time.

TAM drives women WW and WAW posters away. That is too bad because their point of view is helpful for understanding.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I also use other Fora and what I actually find refreshing about TAM is that I can come here as a man and bs without constantly being told that it's my own fault that I got cheated on. 
I must clearly have neglected my wife since she strayed, seems to be a common conviction on other boards.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think you also can't use how many marriages end as a result of cheating to determine who cheats more. This is because women are more likely to end a marriage when they cheat as they've checked out and are often in love with their AP, while men are more often looking for sex but don't necessarily want to end their marriages. Also, it would seem that men are more likely to initiate divorce when their wife cheats then women are when their husband cheats. These scenarios could easily make it seem like more women cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Quote of EI*
> When a woman has already checked out of her marriage, and she feels that an emotional connection has been made with her AP, even if unbeknownst to her, it is only one-sided, the sexual part of the relationship will likely soon follow. When that happens, for a woman, it is going to be very difficult, if not nearly impossible, for her to fully recommit to her marriage. And, from reading TAM, I believe that with these types affairs, it is even more unlikely that her BS will ever be able to recover and heal sufficiently enough to trust, much less forgive, even the most repentant, remorseful, and willing to do the heavy lifting, WS. All of which is absolutely vital to truly reconcile the relationship...... Which is far different than simply remaining married.



EI
Did I not understand your earlier post above? 

Are you saying that there is almost no chance for a BS to sufficiently heal, trust and forgive even if the WS is truly remorseful and proves that remorse?


By your last post below it seems that B1 has or is on his way to “recover and heal sufficiently enough to trust” and forgive. 



> *Quote of EI*
> It's been 19 months since D-Day. I would say that the "hysterical bonding" period would surely be over by now. But, for some reason, everything just keeps getting better and better in every aspect of our relationship. I have never loved this man as much as I love him now. And, I have never felt as loved as he makes me feel now. Our life is still quite challenging, but we are, over the top, deliriously happy. It's almost ridiculous.


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## TheWon% (Jul 30, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think you also can't use how many marriages end as a result of cheating to determine who cheats more. This is because women are more likely to end a marriage when they cheat as they've checked out and are often in love with their AP, while men are more often looking for sex but don't necessarily want to end their marriages. Also, it would seem that men are more likely to initiate divorce when their wife cheats then women are when their husband cheats. These scenarios could easily make it seem like more women cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



LITS, what an insightful outlook. My comment is admittedly going to be quite biased. After being out on the online dating scene for enough time to get a good evaluation of the interaction of the men and women, there was a poster who said "look who spends so much money on porn"...... well they kind of made my point for me. When a man cheats, it takes a lot of effort, he is the hunter, he's the one who pays, he's the one who woos, provides etc. 

Now let's flip this coin over, when a woman cheats what's happening? She has ___________ number of guys coming at her making effort, hunting her, paying for her, wooing her...... 

I've tested this theory, I've put it before large numbers of people and I've quizzed large numbers of women on this and they ALL say that the aggression they encounter provides multiple times more opportunity to cheat than what men experience. It only stands to reason that women are under more "pressure" to cheat than men, and that is a proven fact......


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