# How to ramp up her sex drive more



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.

I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.

I have tried a a LOT of things, books, actions, sexy stuff, notes, gifts, toys, etc., etc., but can't get her going enough. 

Every other day would work but we're about half that. 

Ideal on exciting her?


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

First, how is her hormonal levels. Without the adequate amount, there is little to no sexual attraction.

And, go have fun, explore new thing about yourself. Do you have your own personal life to a healthy degree. In some marriages, that love may take on a more filial like quality if you are not careful. She may love you, but it is not the type o of love you want. Romantic love needs a healthy level of separation.

Also, what are her fantasies. Allow a ssafe place for the both of you to discuss sexual fantasy. Possibly play it out.


----------



## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> First,* how is her hormonal levels. Without the adequate amount, there is little to no sexual attraction.
> 
> *X2 ^^ , people should always start here , also get checked for other health issues before wasting time on books and ideas.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> First, how is her hormonal levels. Without the adequate amount, there is little to no sexual attraction.
> 
> And, go have fun, explore new thing about yourself. Do you have your own personal life to a healthy degree. In some marriages, that love may take on a more filial like quality if you are not careful. She may love you, but it is not the type o of love you want. Romantic love needs a healthy level of separation.
> 
> Also, what are her fantasies. Allow a ssafe place for the both of you to discuss sexual fantasy. Possibly play it out.


Thx,

Hormone levels are fine and they have recently been checked, and she is pretty healthy and active. I've tried the safe place to discuss sexual fantasies. We have a lot of time together (and we still do our own things). I'd LOVE to play out fantasies, just don't get the chance. 

I need to raise her libido and want for sex. It's very hard to get her motivated, and she'll never start anything (she used to). Went we do have sex it often good and we both enjoy it.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

How much non sexual touching do you do? 

Do you hug, kiss, massage etc without expecting sex to come out of it? 

Do you compliment her and genuinely notice her and pay attention to what is happening in her life? 

Do you spend time together doing something you both enjoy every day? 

Do you do your fair share around the house with out any nagging?

Do you have young children?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Read 'mating in captivity '. Is it possible to want what one already possesses? Think about it. That's why she used to initiate but no longer does. She has you already and she feels a little too secure in that.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How old are each of you? How long living together? How many kids and their ages?


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

November said:


> I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.
> 
> I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.
> 
> ...


Is there anything about YOU that pisses her off?
The best thing I ever did to get my wife "ramped up" was getting rid of my anger and resentment. Lost 50 pounds and became more animalistic in the bedroom. I always thought I would hurt my wife in bed. The more I throw her around and grasp her harder, the more she likes it. 
It's a build up process. Once you get YOURSELF and your personality to accommodate your SO, then work on the sex stuff.
Also, I don't just start throwing her around, I build up to it during the sex act. The closer she gets to O, the more I toss her around and use my strength.
It's a dance.

The dance can and should change, but there is always a dance the woman prefers. Figure that one out and branch off as the situation dictates.

The goal is always the same. "How worked up can I get her and how long can I hold off her O." Typically, I must go in slow at first. I am a bit bigger than average and she says I hit her cervix and it hurts. However, if I get her worked up enough, magically her cervix moves because I can pound as hard as I want. There are certain positions that she is more sensitive to. However, even in those positions, if she is excited enough, I can do pretty much whatever I want to.
Afterwards, If she falls asleep in 10 minutes, I know I hit the mark.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Read *'mating in captivity* '. Is it possible to want what one already possesses? Think about it. That's why she used to initiate but no longer does. She has you already and she feels a little too secure in that.


Great book!


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

November said:


> I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.
> 
> I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.
> 
> ...


#1 Your wife's sexuality belongs to her and she can choose when and how she wants to share that with you! While you seem eager to explore, make very sure that she has invited you to explore things to see how she responds. Do NOT just start bringing everything into the bedroom including the kitchen sink to explore her sexuality as part of YOUR initiation. 

#2 Your wife needs to feel that you are confident and love her just the way she is. Do NOT just start bringing everything into the bedroom including the kitchen sink to explore her sexuality as part of YOUR initiation. She will think you are more interested in these "things" than you are interested in loving her completely naturally.

#3 Your wife needs to feel you respect her sexuality and value it. Do NOT just start bringing everything into the bedroom including the kitchen sink to explore her sexuality as part of YOUR initiation. As she may begin to perceive these forms of initiation as disrespectful and harassing. 

#4 Just limit your repertoire of playful things you bring into the bedroom to just "one jar of coconut oil!" Once you are successful with that, you can gradually introduce new things such as a vibrator as long as she continues to respond well to it. If she pushes it away or says no, then be respectful and save it for another time. 

#5 Instead of putting all the focus on exploring your wife's sexuality, encourage her to explore yours. Be specific in telling her how and why you like the way she does certain things so that she attributes your arousal to her actions. Do NOT expect that she has to enjoy herself and demand that you get to reciprocate, give HER an opportunity to show you what she wants.

Much easier said than done, but if you can follow those, she will pin you down to the bed and lavish in the joy of teasing the crap out of you while you simply admire her for being a wonderful wife. Not only will she enjoy that, she will likely start to show you what she likes. Odds are she can probably orgasm just from seeing how much she can arouse you if you keep the mood respectful and loving towards her. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

November said:


> I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.
> 
> I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.
> 
> ...


The solution to "doesn't want it now" is to make her want it. She may have responsive desire. Seduce her slowly. Watch a sexy movie together. Offer her affectionate touch that isn't intended as foreplay. Be attractive. Make her feel very comfortable with being open to you. Reduce any areas of resentment she may have about you.

The solution to "too busy" is to make her less busy. Are you doing your fair share of the housework and income earning? Do you have children or other distractions at home?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.
> 
> I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, *saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. *We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.
> 
> ...


First off, they are not "lame excuses" to her. They are reasons. You need to take a step back from your own desires and listen and think about what she is telling you.

One of the things I learned from a Gottmans Art & Science of Love weekend workshop was that before I can negotiate with my wife on a "grid lock" issue, I should be able to explain her position as well or better than she can. When I can do that, I will be able to understand things well enough to suggest things that will meet my needs and yet not be in conflict with her boundaries. I suggest you listen carefully to what she says and think about what she is saying.

Second., if you do find an answer, I would love to hear about it. 

Third one of the things that David Schnarch says in his book the Passionate Marriage is that there is no right amount of sex in a marriage, or right amount of anything. It is all about finding a compromise that you can both live with and adjusting that compromise over time as the two of you grow and change.

Yes, having more sex can be nice or a pain depending on one's point of view. The frequency is a compromise between two people in a marriage. 

You indicate that you are having sex with your wife about once every four days, which sounds like maybe close to twice a week give or take a little. As someone who was in a sex starved marriage and is now having sex with the same women about twice a week, I consider that a blessing and an incredible change on my wife's part. While I would like more and variety, I also understand that basically, my wife has a lower desire level than I do. I have also learned that I can't change my wife, I can only support those changes she chooses to make.

The advice on changing yourself and how you treat your wife, to see if any of the changes result in her changing her view or approach to sex are all good.

What I have learned is to make sure that each sexual encounter with my wife as "good" for her as I can. Often she gets lots of foreplay and toe curling multiple O's, other times when she doesn't want to O and just wants to pleasure me, I make sure I let her know how much she thrilled me and how lucky I am to have such a good lover for my wife.

Another thing I have learned is that as I scale back on work hours, my wife expects me to take up a larger and larger share of what she considers to be the household chores. The old division of labor (like all Schnarch-like compromises) is something she views should change with time. Finally, for some chores she has historically done, it is her way or not at all, regardless whether it makes sense or not.

Again, good luck and if you find the magic approach, please let us all know.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> How much non sexual touching do you do?
> *A ton of it, from early in the morning to evening, regardless of sex, perhaps too much, but she likes it for the most part.*
> 
> Do you hug, kiss, massage etc without expecting sex to come out of it?
> ...


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> How old are each of you? How long living together? How many kids and their ages?


Were retired seniors, but young at heart and very active. Kid is out of the home, married and doing well. Been together for over 40 years.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

badsanta said:


> #1 Your wife's sexuality belongs to her and she can choose when and how she wants to share that with you! While you seem eager to explore, make very sure that she has invited you to explore things to see how she responds. Do NOT just start bringing everything into the bedroom including the kitchen sink to explore her sexuality as part of YOUR initiation.
> 
> #2 Your wife needs to feel that you are confident and love her just the way she is. Do NOT just start bringing everything into the bedroom including the kitchen sink to explore her sexuality as part of YOUR initiation. She will think you are more interested in these "things" than you are interested in loving her completely naturally.
> 
> ...


Badsanta, 
Good post and good advise, thanks. 
I don't believe that her sexuality belongs only to her, any more than mine belongs to me... in a long term committed married relationship. It has to be done with the benefit of both, and the permission of both. 

I've very cautious about bringing things into the bedroom, and certainly one at a time. And, it it's a bit odd, new or different, it's discussed before the bedroom. We never force anything on the other.... if either one just doesn't want it, it doesn't happen. However, it's WAY more one sided with her, but once in the bedroom, the enjoyment is mutual the majority of the time. And, I spend a LOT more time on her than she does on me, but encourage her to take some initiative.

I'll always give her the opportunity to tell me what she wants, and over the years, have tried to make changes for the better... it just isn't enough, and has gone a bit down hill. I just want to ramp it up a bit. We're both healthy and able.

However, you have some good thoughts.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

November said:


> Were retired seniors, but young at heart and very active. Kid is out of the home, married and doing well. Been together for over 40 years.


How about taking her out of town on a semi regular basis.
Something out of the ordinary.
Doing this consistently will up both of your games. It's also something you can both look back on with fond memories.
Even though you have no kids in the house, change of venue is always a plus. 

We all know hotels bring out the devil in women. That's why hotels exist. :grin2:


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> The solution to "doesn't want it now" is to make her want it. She may have responsive desire. Seduce her slowly. Watch a sexy movie together. Offer her affectionate touch that isn't intended as foreplay. Be attractive. Make her feel very comfortable with being open to you. Reduce any areas of resentment she may have about you.
> 
> The solution to "too busy" is to make her less busy. Are you doing your fair share of the housework and income earning? Do you have children or other distractions at home?


Hopeful,

Thanks, but that is exactly what I want to do.... "make her want it" and, of course, love it.

I do the seduce slowly thing... and start out in the morning. We hug, kiss, rub a lot... I never get tired of it, but sometimes she is not responsive and feels like I'm irritating her. She is NOT too busy, and neither am I. No distractions at home. I've been the majority breadwinner for years, and still am. I do more than my share of housework, and she compliments on that... a nice clean floor, dishes done, laundry done, etc. That's not an issue.

However, like any couple, there is conflict. We don't agree on everything, however, we've learned to accept the other's faults (as we see them), but I see no harm on trying to improve, and sometimes my efforts to get her to improve create conflict.... something I need to work on.

Also, getting the book "Mating in Captivity"


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

November said:


> Were retired seniors, but young at heart and very active. Kid is out of the home, married and doing well. Been together for over 40 years.


has it always been this way generally for 40 years, or has there been ebbs and flows?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

November said:


> Were retired seniors, but young at heart and very active. Kid is out of the home, married and doing well. Been together for over 40 years.


I take it that her sex drive has recently bottomed out? 


She's past menopause. You know that after menopause the hormones that gave us a sex drive aren't there anymore. Depending on how long since her last menstrual period, she could be a candidate for HRT. If she is within 5 years, she might visit her GYN to discuss her lack of sex drive.

You should read up on responsive desire. See links below. For me, prior to menopause I had a KILLER sex drive, I was always aroused. If arousal goes from zero to ten, zero being not at all aroused and ten being orgasm, I walked around at a 4-6 every day. For man this might feel like having half a boner to fully hard and seeking relief. 

Once menopause hit, I didn't have that constant state of arousal. I still love sex and am happy to have sex, but if it's not a topic my H brings up I don't think to go there. I'm not jumping his bones. I'm not telling him he has to give it to me tonight or I will die. Again, I still love sex but I am not on fire for it; someone else has to light that fire in me.

Because we enjoyed a kick ass sex life prior to menopause, I know and trust that once I AM aroused I WILL want sex, even if I didn't really want sex to start. However, if our sex life had been one of a power struggle in which I felt defective because I didn't want sex as often as my husband did, I'm pretty sure I would not be allowing sex to start if I wasn't in the mood for it.

I hope you see the nuance there. Women who have responsive desire only want sex when they are already aroused. Already aroused to a man means he is half hard and eager to get started. How can your wife just manufacture arousal all by herself when she doesn't have those hormone triggering arousal?

That's where YOU come in. You have to get her aroused before you start having sex. Your wife has to understand that there is nothing defective about her sex drive. She is perfectly normal. But the conflicts over not enough sex have to stop! She has to trust her body that once aroused she will be happy to have sex, she will want sex once she is aroused. If she trust that, she just has to allow you to get her aroused.

The Arousal Principle: The Complexity And Simplicity Of Female Erotic Desire*|*Pamela Madsen

Google "responsive desire in women"


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> First off, they are not "lame excuses" to her. They are reasons. You need to take a step back from your own desires and listen and think about what she is telling you.
> *Your right, they are not lame to her, but they are to me. I don't push it and often Ill just go away by myself, but I hate that. And, too many times, it's an excuse... like several days in a row. How do I address the excuses... and she has plenty of them?*
> 
> One of the things I learned from a Gottmans Art & Science of Love weekend workshop was that before I can negotiate with my wife on a "grid lock" issue, I should be able to explain her position as well or better than she can. When I can do that, I will be able to understand things well enough to suggest things that will meet my needs and yet not be in conflict with her boundaries. I suggest you listen carefully to what she says and think about what she is saying.
> ...


I've I find the magic approach, I'll publish it and get rich.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

One more thing... 

If you don't have a job have a serious hobby. You being home all day and taking care of the house sounds wonderful to any woman. But we bore easily. After a while, a husband being home and taking care of the housework lacks excitement. 

I've already told my husband when he retires he better find a job...something to get him out of the house and productive and interesting and it can't be greens keeper at the golf course!


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> One more thing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol that's what my dad did! Greens keeper at the golf course. And he doesn't even golf. He does have a degree in horticulture though.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Lol that's what my dad did! Greens keeper at the golf course. And he doesn't even golf. He does have a degree in horticulture though.


Ah but see my H does golf! What a boring "sport!" It's not a sport if you can drive through it and drink beer while doing it!

Your poor mom!


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

What does your wife need from you?


How's your wife's schedule? Kids a job, keeping up with your house bills and or kids schedules? 

What can you help assist her with, to make more time for you in the bedroom?


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

November said:


> I don't believe that her sexuality belongs only to her, any more than mine belongs to me... in a long term committed married relationship. It has to be done with the benefit of both, and the permission of both.


Let me correct you there...

I believe she wants to share her sexuality with me, just the same as I want to share mine with her... in a long term committed relationship sharing our sexuality has to be done selflessly and not out of selfishness, and in a way that should instill confidence in both. 


If you are married long enough and you are doing something that requires "permission" be aware that you are asking your partner to go above and beyond with their selflessness. 

Instead of asking is it OK for me to try to try this new KY pleasure enhancing lube on your clit, a much better approach is to ask her what kind of lube SHE would like to explore. Sometimes ladies are sensitive to certain lubes and you may be surprised to find that she actually enjoys a little extra friction when you first try to penetrate, and THEN lube a little later when you pause intercourse to stimulate her with your fingers. ...the whole point being is not asking for permission, it is asking her what she prefers. 

Then if you are like most men, if you ask during lovemaking you'll find yourself in that awkward position of her getting upset that you ask too many questions and that ruins it for her and she then fusses at you that you should JUST KNOW IF AND WHEN SOMETHING IS OK!!!! ...so always *reserve questions for afterwards* to learn about what was good and what could use improvement. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I agree with finding a hobby and or volunteer work, or few hours a week job. 

Ask her if there's something you can assist her with to make more time the the bedroom. 

Find ways to turn her on and want to take it to the bedroom. I know being relaxed can also help with getting turned on. There's also creams that can help libido arousal.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> One more thing...
> 
> If you don't have a job have a serious hobby. You being home all day and taking care of the house sounds wonderful to any woman. But we bore easily. After a while, a husband being home and taking care of the housework lacks excitement.
> 
> I've already told my husband when he retires he better find a job...something to get him out of the house and productive and interesting and it can't be greens keeper at the golf course!


I have plenty of hobbies, and work activity, and athletics to keep me busy... and can't keep up with all of it. She does some volunteer work to get her out. That's not an issue for either one of us, but she "could" be a bit more active with a hobby or another activity out of the home.

No greens keeper... I hate golf, too, but it's probably a good activity. I do some mechanical work for fun.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

New_Beginnings said:


> I agree with finding a hobby and or volunteer work, or few hours a week job.
> 
> Ask her if there's something you can assist her with to make more time the the bedroom.
> 
> Find ways to turn her on and want to take it to the bedroom. I know being relaxed can also help with getting turned on. There's also creams that can help libido arousal.


We both have PLENTY of time for the bedroom, that's not the issue. However, what creams work well, and have you tried them?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

November said:


> We both have PLENTY of time for the bedroom, that's not the issue. However, what creams work well, and have you tried them?


There is an estrogen cream she can apply to her vagina and clitoris that is supposed to increase blood flow to those areas and that is supposed to lead to arousal. It doesn't lead to arousal. It leads to an irritated clitoris! 

Arousal is mind/body not body/mind.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Let me correct you there...
> 
> I believe she wants to share her sexuality with me, just the same as I want to share mine with her... in a long term committed relationship sharing our sexuality has to be done selflessly and not out of selfishness, and in a way that should instill confidence in both.
> *We are not there at this time. The confidence is the weak part, and lack of frequency doesn't allow time to build confidence. Even when we do it, it's not done selflessly on either side.*
> ...


*Appreciate the good thoughts.*


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

based on what i have read here-- mainly her being healthy and active and still not wanting it-- and my own experience in sexless marriage (and what i did after that)-- you need to work on yourself and make yourself more attractive, and then let her come to you.

If she 'seems irritated' when you touch, rub, etc--- she probably is!

I have not read the 'mating in captivity' but from what other posters are saying here, it goes along with what I am feeling-- she is not interested due to a sense of boredom or even lack of challenge. 

Also, important to note-- attraction is NOT a choice. You may think she is just being lazy or choosing to not WANT or DESIRE you, but it is not a consious choice. Imagine some disgusting pig of a woman (sorry) with her hands all over you and trying to make out with you all day. Are you going to choose to want to have sex with this person even though you dont "FEEL" like you want to? No, your physical desires will not be there and therfore you will find the whole thing repulsive. 

I know you have been together a very long time and this may go against logic, but reinvest in your own attractive male/manly self. Dont be cold to her, just work on yourself.

I would not recommend discussing this with her anymore either because talking about it even can become a chore to her.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

60+, has sex twice a week, you want more. Don't get your hopes up.


----------



## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

The best way to ramp up a woman's sex drive is to.....

Divorce her. 


Then you can hear all about how high her sex drive is. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@November, just to clarify, you and your wife are retired (I'm guessing that means over 65 years old), you have sex at least twice a week, and your question is how to get your wife to want to have sex every other day?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> Good point, but we are far from a compromise.
> 
> Every other day would work but we're about half that.


So you're getting sex every four days and that's not enough for you, is that what you're saying?

What is HER preference for frequency? I'm going to guess that it's probably every six to eight days. 

So you ARE in a compromise.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

MRR said:


> based on what i have read here-- mainly her being healthy and active and still not wanting it-- and my own experience in sexless marriage (and what i did after that)-- you need to work on yourself and make yourself more attractive, and then let her come to you.
> 
> If she 'seems irritated' when you touch, rub, etc--- she probably is!
> 
> ...


MRR,
I don't know what work I need to do on myself to make me more attractive. I'm sure there are some things like being more responsive to projects to do. Sure, there's a lot of small things, and I work on them. She IS attracted to me, and often talks about it, and often reminisces about how we met and ended up together. Also, I'm in shape, excellent health, attractive and social... and would have no problem attracting women (but that's not the goal). We both look young by 10 to 15 years, in good health, and we retired early and enjoying life for the most part. We are attracted to each other for the majority of our activities, and even with sex.... just want more. So, attractiveness is not an issue.

And attraction CAN be a choice, it's a mind set. One CAN learn to be attracted to another, but often needs a "start". We started that way. We are not only attracted to looks, but actions, mannerisms, confidence, how one treats us, etc. Now, it's hard to get started with a pig, but not the issue.

And I am NOT cold to her. I go out of my way to be SURE she knows I care... many times a day, regardless if we have a fight or not. Even with fights, we bury the hatchet at night and go to bed in love. (just wish we could have makeup sex <g>).

You're right about discussing it with her as a chore. If she's in a lousy mood, frustrated with her day, or just down, it does bother her. But, if I totally stopped, I'd bet she would not like it. (did that once, and she begged for my attention, and I'm not going back there.)

But thx for the good comments.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Lila said:


> @November, just to clarify, you and your wife are retired (I'm guessing that means over 65 years old), you have sex at least twice a week, and your question is how to get your wife to want to have sex every other day?



Yes, and please don't tell me that I'm too old for sex. I know a few 90 yr olds that are way more active than me. And I'd occasionally like it twice a day. (which happens and is great for both of us).


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> So you're getting sex every four days and that's not enough for you, is that what you're saying?
> 
> What is HER preference for frequency? I'm going to guess that it's probably every six to eight days.
> 
> So you ARE in a compromise.


Turnera,

We have compromised, but neither is totally happy with the results. And that's what I want to work on. She says her preference is 3x a week, and we often fall a bit short of that. 

What bothers me, is that it is RARE if she doesn't enjoy it... and if I see she's having a bad time, I stop, and just rub her and go to sleep. (And if I'm having a bad time, which happens, she still gets finished.)


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

November said:


> Yes, and please don't tell me that I'm too old for sex. I know a few 90 yr olds that are way more active than me. And I'd occasionally like it twice a day. (which happens and is great for both of us).


LOL, you're not too old for sex. My parents are in their 60s and still manage to bang one out every once in a while :wink2:. but it does sound like you have it much better than most. It's well documented in that libido wanes as we age. It's part of the _natural _aging process. Modern advancements in medical technology including Viagra and testosterone replacement therapy have made it possible for men to artificially extend their sexual prime into their golden years. That's all well and good but unfortunately modern technology has not afforded women the same benefits. All of this to say that I'm not sure if there is anything you can do to 'ramp up your wife's sex drive'. 

You seem to be doing everything typically advised to men who are seeking more or better quality sex from their partners and it doesn't seem to have improved your situation. Honestly, would it be the end of the world if you 'only' had sex with your wife 2-3 times a week?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest you use some of your free time to read some books about the female mind, about what makes women tick, what drives them. The only way to get her to want more sex is to get her to want more sex with YOU. And that is usually a result of feelings about you, a connection to you. The happier a woman is with you, the more sex she wants. 

The book His Needs Her Needs talks also about Love Busters, and those directly affect her desire. You say you have tons of free time, yet you can't seem to get around to projects you know she wants done? Big Love Buster. My H will go ten years without fixing something, and I can tell you that when he finally does take care of it, my feelings for him - and thus desire for him - goes up immediately.

I also suggest using all that free time to start integrating new stuff in your lives. Try new restaurants, go on day trips to small towns you've never been to, go watch a high school basketball game or musical, become Geocachers...LOOK for ways to bring 'new' into your lives, and it will improve her feelings toward you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> Turnera,
> 
> We have compromised, but neither is totally happy with the results. And that's what I want to work on. She says her preference is 3x a week, and we often fall a bit short of that.
> 
> What bothers me, is that it is RARE if she doesn't enjoy it... and if I see she's having a bad time, I stop, and just rub her and go to sleep. (And if I'm having a bad time, which happens, she still gets finished.)


So she says she wants it more, too? Then it seems like a real conversation about WHY she's ending up not wanting it in the end is in order. There is something going on and unless you address it, it won't change. Does she have physical pain that gets worse as the day goes on? Maybe fibromyalgia? Is she sleeping enough? Is there some activity she does that makes her 
sad or tired or dissatisfied? Is there something about YOU that makes her less attached to you as the hours go by? 

Do you see what I mean?

Oh, also, you say she may say in the morning she wants it but by bedtime she doesn't...dude, you're retired. Why aren't you just waking up and doing it in the morning? It's not like you have to go anywhere.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Lila said:


> LOL, you're not too old for sex. My parents are in their 60s and still manage to bang one out every once in a while :wink2:. but it does sound like you have it much better than most. It's well documented in that libido wanes as we age. It's part of the _natural _aging process. Modern advancements in medical technology including Viagra and testosterone replacement therapy have made it possible for men to artificially extend their sexual prime into their golden years. That's all well and good but unfortunately modern technology has not afforded women the same benefits. All of this to say that I'm not sure if there is anything you can do to 'ramp up your wife's sex drive'.
> 
> You seem to be doing everything typically advised to men who are seeking more or better quality sex from their partners and it doesn't seem to have improved your situation. Honestly, would it be the end of the world if you 'only' had sex with your wife 2-3 times a week?



I do have it good, and I'd accept 2 or 3 times a week it that was clearly the only choice. I just want better and want her to feel that it's better, too. 

I don't believe women have to suffer low libido just because they age. There are things that can be done to improve it (and that's what I'm working on).


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

I think you are missing the point of my message. The attraction that you call a choice is not the same urge/desire for sex. That is NOT a choice, and in your mind (from what you are saying), it is as if you believe she is choosing to not want that desire. 

Create it. If you have to, there are books out there aimed typically at men dating, or divorced men going back to dating, that talk about relationship dynamics and what attracts women to men. A lot of it is completely illogical to men, but again, not a choice to women. 

Think of your wife, for a moment, as a single woman available to any man interested in her. I think that biologically someone, including you, could create an attraction in her that would produce a STRONG urge for sexual desire. It just isnt you right now. If your wife used to have strong desire for sex, and there are no health/physical problems, then she still has that ability. She is not choosing not to feel that way to make you both miserable. 

I would recommend 'Models' by Mark Manson. Interesting read and you would definitely be coming at it from a different perspective as a long-married man, but great learning possibility.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

November said:


> I do have it good, and I'd accept 2 or 3 times a week it that was clearly the only choice. I just want better and want her to feel that it's better, too.
> 
> I don't believe women have to suffer low libido just because they age. *There are things that can be done to improve it (and that's what I'm working on).*


Genuine question....what are the things that can be done to improve libido? This question comes up a lot around here and it would be great if you would share what you've learned works.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> I suggest you use some of your free time to read some books about the female mind, about what makes women tick, what drives them. The only way to get her to want more sex is to get her to want more sex with YOU. And that is usually a result of feelings about you, a connection to you. The happier a woman is with you, the more sex she wants.
> 
> The book His Needs Her Needs talks also about Love Busters, and those directly affect her desire. You say you have tons of free time, yet you can't seem to get around to projects you know she wants done? Big Love Buster. My H will go ten years without fixing something, and I can tell you that when he finally does take care of it, my feelings for him - and thus desire for him - goes up immediately.
> 
> I also suggest using all that free time to start integrating new stuff in your lives. Try new restaurants, go on day trips to small towns you've never been to, go watch a high school basketball game or musical, become Geocachers...LOOK for ways to bring 'new' into your lives, and it will improve her feelings toward you.


Turnera,

Good points. Have the book His Needs Her Needs on order, just horribly slow in coming. 

Yes, I'm poor on organizing my free time (and so is she). We will often forego a project for something fun to do, and I have no issue with that. 

And, yes, I NEED to ramp up my speed on projects.... have a lot more after the current one, and some are big, some are mine, some hers and some for both of us, but I'm doing them all. Yes, slow on them IS a love buster.

We have tons of new stuff in our lives. In the last 6 months, we done a lot of things we've never done before or been a long time, including new restaurants, out door activities, tubing, new B&Bs, tours, concerts and new friends. (hate geocaching... she does too.... horribly boring). 

Maybe there are some things I do or don't do that irritates her as the day goes on. Need to look at that. And, yes, we do it in the morning, occasionally, and sometimes get up really early and that's really hot.

She has not physical pain with sex, sleeps well (better than I do).

I'm not giving up unless it turns into an absolute no go. (and she doesn't give up on goals for the same reason, and she's more successful at accomplishing goals than I am, but she's horribly slow.). I'm hoping to unlock a good profile or mindset, that will turn increase her sexual desires. Now, occasionally we discover something new and it's often really hot, just not often enough.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm still trying to figure that one out after 16+ years of marriage.

What I have learned is as follows:

- how she was raised
- how her last bf(s) treated her badly
- she is extremely insecure about her body because she is a bigger girl
- she knows this but isn't willing to make the lifestyle change

I know she is LD conservative because of her insecurity and size.

Nothing to do with me.

If Mrs.CuddleBug one day made that lifestyle change, permanently, the weight would come off, takes years and everything else would follow. She'd feel much better about her body and I'm sure her sex drive would increase and even get a little adventurous.

Every women is different.

Some ladies were abused, haven't told anyone but haven't got help either.

Some say its their faith. I am a God fearing Christian man and my sex drive has been high since my teen years. My faith is spiritual and not about my body.

Could be the friends she hangs out with. If they're all LD conservative, she won't feel like its an issue and nothing changes.


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

That's good to know. My Dr suggested possible creams but said I was too young, for hormonal imbalance. 

Not trying to irritate my girly parts though. 



Anon Pink said:


> November said:
> 
> 
> > We both have PLENTY of time for the bedroom, that's not the issue. However, what creams work well, and have you tried them?
> ...


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Lila said:


> Genuine question....what are the things that can be done to improve libido? This question comes up a lot around here and it would be great if you would share what you've learned works.


Lila,

Here's a list of things to consider with low libido. All may not work, but any can possibly help. I've explored a lot, some with success.

Low Libido Solutions

Check hormones and keep normal
Exercises, like kegals, also exercise just for good cardio helps.
Creams that may enhance sex or solve dry problems, ones with L-arginine
Phych and counseling help
Courses

Sex-Drive Killers: 
Stress
Partner Problems
Smoking
Alcohol
Too Little Sleep
Having Kids
Medication
Poor Body Image
Obesity
Depression
Menopause
Lack of Closeness
Drugs, especially antidepressants known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) can take the winds right out of your sails. These drugs include brand names such as Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil.

Viagra for women… soon to be approved


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

All I can say is don't this into your holy grail and turn her off from sex altogether by being pushy about her wanting it more often.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

November said:


> I have a reasonably good relationship with my SO, but sex is the weak part. I'd just like to increase it more... from just touching and fondling to passionate love making.
> 
> I always initiate, and about half the time, she rejects me, saying she just doesn't want it now, or she's busy or whatever.... all lame excuses. We have plenty of excuses, retires, not a lot of commitments.
> 
> ...


It is really quite easy....

boil up a quart of dew drops gathered from the petals of sky blue roses....

Use it to brew a pot of tea using only the tiniest of tea leaves from the top of mount Everest, picked by virgin nieces of the Dali Lama...

Sprinkle in a teaspoon of ground unicorn horn, without thinking of the word "Aardvark"...

Have your wife drink it while in the throes of an orgasm from reading "50 shades".....

She will forever after, be unable to reject your sexual advances with a flimsy excuse........

She will just say *NO*.... Good luck...

If you use coconut oil instead of dew, it makes a crackerjack udder balm....


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

November said:


> Viagra for women… soon to be approved


 @November 

As for Viagra I'll quote a NY Times Best Seller: "Women have orgasms for the same reason men have nipples."

Imagine a world where most women make husbands take drugs so that we dads can wake up in the middle of the night to breastfeed! We've got nipples, so why not make them work!!!!!

Inducing Breastmilk ? with or without pregnancy ? men too. | Pregnancy & Childbirth | dreamhawk.com

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

November: Spend more time apart. Sounds like you spend most days together. Great for being her friend. Not enough mystery and distance to spark longing.

When you are together, forget dinner and a movie. That is same old, same old. Do things that are exciting and trigger a little adrenaline. Go to an amusement park and ride the roller coasters. Doesn't have to be a huge metal coaster that flips you upside down, can be whatever size and speed is exciting to her, maybe a little scary, but not risking physical injury. Go to new places. Explore new things. Take up a new hobby. Anything new or exciting is going to trigger "he is fun and sexy". Break out of your routine.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Now, specifically regarding the act itself, I suggest you try to get hold of a copy of this book. Make the bedroom fun and exciting again:
http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitations-To-Grrreat-Sex/dp/0974259918


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Have you tried dressing like a clown and blowing her a balloon in a shape of a penis? Sometimes you have to think outside the box.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

turnera said:


> Now, specifically regarding the act itself, I suggest you try to get hold of a copy of this book. Make the bedroom fun and exciting again:
> http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitations-To-Grrreat-Sex/dp/0974259918


$95.79? Must be good.


----------



## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> I'm still trying to figure that one out after 16+ years of marriage.
> 
> What I have learned is as follows:
> 
> ...


Spot on. I'd edit #2 for our case in that her ex insisted on sex a lot, and she relented. She's happy that I don't bug her for sex (no point in bugging her - if she doesn't want it, I'm not going to insist on it). 

Same with the insecurity about size - she lost 50 lbs several years ago and looked good, but has put it back on. She constantly says that she hates her body, but does nothing about it (or rather says that she'll start on Monday, then by Wednesday she's already off the wagon). However, in our case, when she lost the weight, the sex drive didn't improve, but she did look really good. Now it's constant talk about how tired she is, etc. 

As for your last paragraph, this is exactly correct. Her friends, with one exception, are all LD, and when they talk about sex, it's always in terms of how it's a chore (I've heard them say this).


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> I've I find the magic approach, I'll publish it and get rich.





> Your right, they are not lame to her, but they are to me. I don't push it and often Ill just go away by myself, but I hate that. And, too many times, it's an excuse... like several days in a row. How do I address the excuses... and she has plenty of them?
> 
> ....We do discuss differences, but at times, don't make enough progress as she gives up and says she's done talking. And often the differences are not sexual. But the sex is discussed a fair amount. And, at times, she is very receptive in the morning for an evening romp, only to change her mind later and I find that totally frustrating and unfair. I'd rather get a "no" than "I changed my mind"...... An answer? That's what I'm looking for.


One of the things that Schnarch points out is that married people communicate far better than most realize. He likes to talk about the old married couple at the restaurant who sit silently eating dinner and occasionally look at each other or pass something without saying a work and contrasts that to the young couple who are staring into each others eyes and talking constantly. 

The old married couple can say with a look, a facial expersion or a shoulder shrug what might take the young couple several minutes to express. The old couple can read each other like a book and have had the same arguments and discussions a hundred times adn know their spouses response.

The point of the digression is for you to look at what you posted both originally and in response to my comments.

You feel your wife has "lame excuses" and you are dismissive of her reasons. SHE KNOWS THAT AND IS PROBABLY PISSED OFF ABOUT THAT. And she probably is right to be upset with you. You need to listen to her and even if you don't feel they would be valid reasons for you, you need to understand that they may indeed be valid reasons for her and respect her for her reasons.

When an HD person is married to an LD person you just need to understand that their priorities in life are different, not wrong, just different. Then you need to deal with those differences and work with them.

If you want to change things, you can only change yourself and the way you interact with her. You can't change her. If you understand her better then you can figure out ways to change yourself and how you act around her that may cause her to WANT TO CHANGE herself.

As to "totally unfair and frustrating" that she can change her mind about sex, you need to understand her arousal paths differ from yours and not feel "entitled" to sex once she says yes. 

I am going to digress. An early lesson most men learn and is in the press a lot lately is that no means no. That if a woman leads a guy on, they start to fool around, but she changes her mind in mid-foreplay and says no........proceeding is date rape. Obviously, this is your wife, obviously you would not hurt her, but women get to change their minds. Just because you are her husband and she says yes in the morning doesn't mean you are entitled to have sex if she doesn't want it at night. 

I think you need to do some introspection n the differences between you and your wife and figure out how you can better understand her perspective.

I apologize if this seems harsh, but from your posts, I think you need to consider how she views things more than you are now doing. Maybe hearing it from a marriage counselor would help the two of you. 

Good luck.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

OP, you come off as a little entitled, and its not sexy.

If she gets the vibe from you that you feel she's not trying hard enough, she's making lame excuses, she should just be giving you what you want... she will be turned off. If she feels like even when she tries, it's not enough, she will be turned off. Even if you're not saying these things out loud, you've been together long enough that she may be picking up on them anyway.

I would recommend turning the tables a bit. Continue with non-sexual touch, but don't smother her. If she seems irritated when you touch her, then stop! But most of all, when you have sex, be happy and appreciative. Instead of pushing her for more, express joy with what you're already doing together. If she really feels tired and busy, and you're asking for more, you could be sending the message that she doesn't measure up, and she will be turned off. 

So if you want a positive sexual experience, stick to positive reinforcement. If having sex leads to you saying and doing things that make her happy, she may joyfully do it more often.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> One of the things that Schnarch points out is that married people communicate far better than most realize. He likes to talk about the old married couple at the restaurant who sit silently eating dinner and occasionally look at each other or pass something without saying a work and contrasts that to the young couple who are staring into each others eyes and talking constantly.
> 
> The old married couple can say with a look, a facial expersion or a shoulder shrug what might take the young couple several minutes to express. The old couple can read each other like a book and have had the same arguments and discussions a hundred times adn know their spouses response.
> 
> ...


Young,
Well, you and NoSizeQueen have posted the most intelligent post over the past few. I will not dignify some of the other ridiculous posts that do absolutely nothing. There is no upside in being stupid. Badsanta, Woodchuck, norajane, Holdingontoit, Mr.Fisty you know what I mean.

Yes, we can communicate easily without talking, and do. As for the lame excuses, my counselor agrees with me and has told me to tread carefully and slowing get rid of them without offending her, and I'm working on that. And we have had counseling together, not successful, but my IC is great and has helped both of us a lot.

Agreed, no means no... usually. Changing one's mind after a commitment is excusable at times, but is frustrating and unfair regardless. I'll work on that one, too. And we DO understand each other quite well, and usually agree on things, even sex (a good part of the time).

And we DO understand each others views, even if we don't always agree. We do agree to disagree, but have made the agreement that either is free to try to improve the other... and often, it works. 

She is happy, and so am I, but we have always strived for improvement. We are 1:1 personalities, very successful, well educated, professional and entrepreneurial spirits... and those often clash. We set boundaries and abide by them.

My posting here was to get ideas on improvement... for me AND for her. If it weren't a win/win, it would not be worth it. 

You're not harsh... just some good realistic things to think about. Thanks, I'll work on all that you mentioned.

And NoSizeQueen:
I really don't mean to act "entitled", but we have agreed for either to strive to improve things, as they see fit. We both are entitled to a happy relationship, with happiness and satisfaction.... and we agree on that. 

Now, your right, I need to back off a bit, and be careful about the sexual touches (which I do several times a day, mostly without issue and she loves it). But the times she gets a bit irritated and wants me to back off, I should, and I'll try that.... thx. 

And, the positive approach is great. Normally, I'm VERY positive, way more than her, but I can always improve with her, and I'll do that. Thx.

Keep the great ideas coming. We can always improve.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> Now, specifically regarding the act itself, I suggest you try to get hold of a copy of this book. Make the bedroom fun and exciting again:
> http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitations-To-Grrreat-Sex/dp/0974259918


Turnera,

You may be on to something, but have you read the book? It's expensive, but has pretty good reviews. Might just try it.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

November said:


> Turnera,
> 
> You may be on to something, but have you read the book? It's expensive, but has pretty good reviews. Might just try it.


So try a similar one, Amazon is so happy to point you to similar books...

http://www.amazon.com/Nights-Grrrea.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

November said:


> I really don't mean to act "entitled", but we have agreed for either to strive to improve things, as they see fit. We both are entitled to a happy relationship, with happiness and satisfaction.... and we agree on that.


I agree that you should strive to improve, but it doesn't sound like you guys are on the same page. Does she think of having sex twice as often as an improvement? Will it make her happier and more satisfied with her relationship, outside of the fact that it will make YOU happier?

You have every right to want more and work towards that. But do keep in mind that you are not deprived at all. You're basically asking her for a favor, and so be sure to offer something in return. If you want her to do it JUST to make you happy... well, that's nice and all, but it's not sustainable in the long term. That sort of thing leads to resentment.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

November said:


> Agreed, no means no... usually. Changing one's mind after a commitment is excusable at times, but is frustrating and unfair regardless.


And seriously, WTF? Are we talking about sex, or some sort of business agreement? Of course it's frustrating if she changes her mind, but if she has sex anyway when she longer wants to, that's just duty sex. Most people don't find that very satisfying.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> Turnera,
> 
> You may be on to something, but have you read the book? It's expensive, but has pretty good reviews. Might just try it.


November, it's not really a 'book' - at least not the kind you read. And I have it and back when I was into my H and not full of resentments, I enjoyed using it. 

Anyway, it is _literally _a book of 52 _invitations _- 26 for you to give her and 26 for her to give you. They're all different kinds of situations. It gives instructions for how to set up the situation. 

An easy example is one for the woman to invite the man. She gets a bunch of fruit, a string, and a needle. On the invitation, it tells the man to show up at X time in X place, and to bring only a can of whipped cream. I'm sure you can imagine, she'll be standing there wearing only fruit on a string, and it's his job to eat the fruit away. Gets the excitement going, gets the suspense, can he make it all the way through all the fruit or will he just rip it off and cut to the chase?

In a case like yours, it's well worth the money.

That said, I think you should FIRST heed all the other advice first and make sure you aren't Love Busting her, that there aren't issues you aren't aware of, and so on.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> Now, your right, I need to back off a bit, and be careful about the sexual touches (which I do several times a day, mostly without issue and she loves it). But the times she gets a bit irritated and wants me to back off, I should, and I'll try that.... thx.


You're serious? Several times a day? I'm surprised she hasn't cut your damn hand off. She is not a piece of property! And you 'should' back off when she tells you to? Meaning you haven't?!

Are you aware that pawing at us is one of women's top Love Busters? Now, if you're just hugging her, she probably does love it. If you're grabbing her crotch or squeezing her breasts...I'd be willing to bet money she got tired of it about 25 years ago and just gave up on telling you to stop.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

NoSizeQueen said:


> I agree that you should strive to improve, but it doesn't sound like you guys are on the same page. Does she think of having sex twice as often as an improvement? Will it make her happier and more satisfied with her relationship, outside of the fact that it will make YOU happier?
> 
> You have every right to want more and work towards that. But do keep in mind that you are not deprived at all. You're basically asking her for a favor, and so be sure to offer something in return. If you want her to do it JUST to make you happy... well, that's nice and all, but it's not sustainable in the long term. That sort of thing leads to resentment.


NoSize,

Good thoughts, but there's no way I would proceed if it wasn't a win/win. If she didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't either (said that before). It's not asking for a favor, any more that she would think I'm doing her a favor by taking her to her favorite restaurant. 

And, yes, for the most part we are on the same page. Today, she would not think that it would be an improvement, (and that's why I'm here), however she may in the future. However, we have both made significant changes over the years that we thought we stupid, non productive and wouldn't help at all.... and they did. This is just another one. 

I'll give you and example... there was a time when I absolutely hated to go out to dinner. I always thought that things were overpriced, lousy service, unhealthy food and just no fun. Well, I learned to change. I don't "love" it and it's still overpriced, lousy service and unhealthy food... but I've worked to make it fun and lean on the more health choices, and patronize places where the service isn't just horrible. For me, it was a dramatic change. Now we go out twice a week or more and we both enjoy it. 

That's just one of MANY changes that we have made over the years. And, I'll take your comments under advisement.... I don't want to let things deteriorate. Thx.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> You're serious? Several times a day? I'm surprised she hasn't cut your damn hand off. She is not a piece of property! And you 'should' back off when she tells you to? Meaning you haven't?!
> 
> Are you aware that pawing at us is one of women's top Love Busters? Now, if you're just hugging her, she probably does love it. If you're grabbing her crotch or squeezing her breasts...I'd be willing to bet money she got tired of it about 25 years ago and just gave up on telling you to stop.


Turnera

No, I'm not grabbing her crotch and squeezing her breasts... however, she occasionally does that to me. And, for the most part, she's fine. When she's irritated, it's usually a kiss or hug. There have been a few times, I just ripped her pants off and did it on the kitchen counter... and she loved it and encouraged me... was great, and we occasionally do something similar.

It's learning to know when the kiss or hug is unwanted, and over the years, I occasionally miss that. And, yes, she occasionally irritates me.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

November said:


> And, yes, for the most part we are on the same page. Today, she would not think that it would be an improvement, (and that's why I'm here), however she may in the future.


These two statements kind of contradict each other. If you think more sex would improve the relationship, and she does not, you are absolutely NOT on the same page. Just because she enjoys the sex you're already having, doesn't mean she wants or will enjoy more of it.

Or are you saying she agrees that she doesn't want this now, but she thinks she might want it after it happens?
If you really believe that is true, I see two reasonable options.

1) Sit down and have an open and honest discussion, and see if she will agree to sex every two days. But also make a clear agreement of what will happen if she's not actually happy with the new frequency and you are. After a certain period of time, does she get to go back to twice a week if the new arrangement isn't working for her?

2) Sit down and have an open and honest discussion, and agree to up the frequency bit by bit, until you reach something you're both happier with.


It sounds like you're not being entirely honest with each other. You say she wants it more but isn't doing it. If that's true, there must be a reason for that. But you're dismissing her reasons, so maybe she's not telling you the real reason, or maybe she is and you're not hearing it. Or possibly she doesn't want it more at all, and she's telling you what you want to hear (or you're hearing what you want to hear). From the things you say here, my vote is on either her not telling you something, or you not hearing her when she's saying it.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

NoSizeQueen said:


> These two statements kind of contradict each other. If you think more sex would improve the relationship, and she does not, you are absolutely NOT on the same page. Just because she enjoys the sex you're already having, doesn't mean she wants or will enjoy more of it.
> 
> Or are you saying she agrees that she doesn't want this now, but she thinks she might want it after it happens?
> If you really believe that is true, I see two reasonable options.
> ...


NoSizeQueen, 
Good points... yes we agree most of the time. We do not agree on sex frequency, the reason I'm here. So, on that subject we are not on the same page.

And, no I don't know precisely why she doesn't want more, but says she just doesn't want it, with what I call lame excuses (but paying more attention now) But loves it when we do.... and I'm working on that too. Perhaps I'm not listening, will do that more. 

We do discuss it, but often without a positive solution of any kind. It often ends with I'm just don't want to talk about it.

I like your solution 2, but will talk to her about it.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

What would your reaction be, if she told you that her reason was because you're already at the ideal frequency for her... that she enjoys what you have, but more of it would feel more like work and less like play?

Would you call that an acceptable reason, or a lame excuse?

And if that is the case, if you've already hit her comfortable limit, would you be willing to accept lower quality sex in exchange for doing it more often? Which is more important to you, quality or quantity?


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Yes, you should sit down and try to talk her into having sex with you more often (sarcasm). 

You have obviously chosen to ignore my previous points, but I am going to tell you right now you are approaching from the wrong direction. I made the same mistakes. 

My last suggestion is to just go to google and start searching for things like, my wife doesnt desire me
or my wife doesnt want to have sex with me
or how to get my wife to want sex

and just read through with an open mind.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

They're having decent sex about twice a week. That's a far cry from "my wife doesn't want to have sex with me".


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

NoSizeQueen said:


> What would your reaction be, if she told you that her reason was because you're already at the ideal frequency for her... that she enjoys what you have, but more of it would feel more like work and less like play?
> 
> Would you call that an acceptable reason, or a lame excuse?
> 
> And if that is the case, if you've already hit her comfortable limit, would you be willing to accept lower quality sex in exchange for doing it more often? Which is more important to you, quality or quantity?


NoSizeQueen,

I would accept that reaction as a reasonable excuse. However, her excuses are pretty weak... like I just don't feel like it, or I'm tired, when she's not, or I'm not in the mood. And, if I'm successful in convincing her that we should try anyway, she is OFTEN happy during and after, even if it's not horrible exciting, and she gets in the mood. I NEVER push to the point that she has to move away from me, I'll just back off and hold her, or rub her, not sexually. 

She has never told me that she's at her ideal frequency. 

Now, you mention quality... and that's not necessarily the problem. My issue is frequency. We "could" have better quality and less frequency... and occasionally that happens. 

I'm not horrible disappointed in her. Just occasionally frustrated. She is still a wonderful person.... intelligent, active with me, does a TON of stuff for me and the one I want to be with. This is not close to a deal breaker... just a goal I have. 

And, she has her goals with me, and they are moving along reasonably well, but there's always room for improvement.

As long as she still enjoys our love life as much as I do, I'm going to work for more frequency, thus my posting here... to see what methods perhaps worked for others. I explore all options.

And, here's a question.... if two people are at an impasse, one wants 5 and the other wants 10, or one wants up and the other wants down, what is a reasonable compromise?


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

MRR said:


> Yes, you should sit down and try to talk her into having sex with you more often (sarcasm).
> 
> You have obviously chosen to ignore my previous points, but I am going to tell you right now you are approaching from the wrong direction. I made the same mistakes.
> 
> ...


MME,
I did respond to your only? post, see post #36. I don't totally agree with you regarding attractiveness and explained why. 

I've googled that stuff LONG ago, long before I started researching other help, and this thread. Sure, there's a lot of good ideas out there, and I'm trying some of them, some which helped. 
Now, we have a totally different issue that you have (had?).... we are FAR from a sexless marriage.

Now, you say I'm approaching from the wrong direction... I'd be glad to hear your comments on this one.

I'm still all ears, and in a learning mode. I've picked up a few good pointers to work on, and perhaps I'll get more. I'll just ignore the stupid comments, no upside in addressing them.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

5.1


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

November said:


> And, here's a question.... if two people are at an impasse, one wants 5 and the other wants 10, or one wants up and the other wants down, what is a reasonable compromise?


A reasonable compromise is a number both partners can live with. Which is why I recommend gradually increasing frequency until you find a middle ground.

I also recommend clearing your mind of this idea that her reasons aren't real. They may be real to her. How do you know she's not tired, when she says she is? Take her at her word, and move forward from there. If she's often tired, try moving some sessions to the morning when she has more energy. If you ask for sex, and she says she's busy, ask her what you can do to help. Maybe hire a cleaner, or pick up more chores. If she's not in the mood, offer a massage or cuddle to help her get there.

When she gives you a reason for not wanted sex, believe it and address it. Saying it isn't real won't help you get laid.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

It honestly sounds like she doesn't see a point in giving you a reason she doesn't want more sex, because she knows you won't believe it anyway. THAT is what you need to change. Validate her, so she can be honest and know you'll hear it!


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

NoSizeQueen said:


> It honestly sounds like she doesn't see a point in giving you a reason she doesn't want more sex, because she knows you won't believe it anyway. THAT is what you need to change. Validate her, so she can be honest and know you'll hear it!


NoSizeQueen,

That's a good point, and I'll try that. 

The reason I said lame, is that I would ask her in the morning, and she's tired, yet she's reason to work out or go shopping.... and she's not in the mood, and sometimes I can rub her and she'll just change moods. (FWIW, look up "not in the mood" and comments by counselors and professionals... they say that's never a good excuse, so that's where I got that from). Also, I've never told her that her excuse is lame... but have said "let me work on you regardless"... sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

However, you make a GOOD point. thx. Whatever her reason, I will accept it as valid.


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Or quit talking about it. The more you bring it up the more pressure she will feel, and the less desire. 

I am not sure what you are reading but it sounds like you have already talked about this with her many many times. And yes it actually sounds very much like my situation. I bothered her enough to the point where it was annoying to her. 

Maybe try thinking, for a moment, about this woman NOT as your wife (in which case there is often a built in entitlement) and as a single woman. How would you attract her? How would you seduce her? 

Try watching Corey Wayne's videos, maybe the one called "No sex, she is distant and avoiding me", which is mostly from a single man's point of view. Obviously there will be things that do not apply, but the dynamics of attraction ARE subconscious and for women are more emotional than logical (which is how a man interprets things).


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

November said:


> .... and she's not in the mood, and sometimes I can rub her and she'll just change moods. (FWIW, look up "not in the mood" and comments by counselors and professionals... they say that's never a good excuse, so that's where I got that from)


Look closely at what you wrote here. She didn't just "change moods", and she wasn't lying about how she felt... You did something, and that put her in the mood. Read up on responsive desire, and practice your sensual massage skills.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> NoSizeQueen,
> 
> I would accept that reaction as a reasonable excuse. However, her excuses are pretty weak... like I just don't feel like it, or I'm tired, when she's not, or I'm not in the mood. And, if I'm successful in convincing her that we should try anyway, she is OFTEN happy during and after, even if it's not horrible exciting, and she gets in the mood. I NEVER push to the point that she has to move away from me, I'll just back off and hold her, or rub her, not sexually.
> 
> ...


She is SHOWING you what she wants - where she's now at. Sex IS NOT HER PRIORITY. And thus she IS too tired to want sex at that moment. She DOESN'T feel like it, because whatever she's doing IS more important to her than sex at the moment. 

That's what I've been trying to tell you.

You are trying to change her mind. You are trying to control her through her mind. But you can't make her think a way she doesn't think. You CAN change who YOU are so that jumping in the bed with you starts to seem more exciting than the book she's reading or the phone call she's on.

You have to offer a better alternative.

And sex is the ONE thing you can't just 'reach a compromise' on because women typically have to WANT to have sex to be WILLING to have sex. It's all in the head for most women. They do NOT have the strong biological urge to do it nearly every waking minute like many men do (exaggeration). So they really DO need to be 'in the mood.' So just telling her you want her to be available every other day, at 9pm, just isn't going to work. She may capitulate to shut you up, but I guarantee it WILL be duty sex. And will most likely cause some resentment.


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> November said:
> 
> 
> > .... and she's not in the mood, and sometimes I can rub her and she'll just change moods. (FWIW, look up "not in the mood" and comments by counselors and professionals... they say that's never a good excuse, so that's where I got that from)
> ...



I agree with this, doing something to place her in the mood and I agree with what MRR is saying. When my husband would come home, constantly talk about wanting sex (even though we had it pretty regularly), I was annoyed and turned off. Now when he found ways to help me get in the mood then I want sex just as much as him. 

Sex isn't on my mind as much as its on my husbands. Sometimes I just want to talk to my husband about my day and find relaxation outside of the bedroom. When my mind is tired, my body sure doesn't want to be in the moment of sex. I want to place my focus on my husband. I rather passionate sex than just doing it for him to have a release.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

<<<<Look closely at what you wrote here. She didn't just "change moods", and she wasn't lying about how she felt... You did something, and that put her in the mood. Read up on responsive desire, and practice your sensual massage skills. >>>>>



New_Beginnings said:


> I agree with this, doing something to place her in the mood and I agree with what MRR is saying. When my husband would come home, constantly talk about wanting sex (even though we had it pretty regularly), I was annoyed and turned off. Now when he found ways to help me get in the mood then I want sex just as much as him.
> 
> Sex isn't on my mind as much as its on my husbands. Sometimes I just want to talk to my husband about my day and find relaxation outside of the bedroom. When my mind is tired, my body sure doesn't want to be in the moment of sex. I want to place my focus on my husband. I rather passionate sex than just doing it for him to have a release.


You're absolutely right, I changed her mood, and would like to do that more often, the purpose of this thread. This is something that I want to be more skilled at, and if I have to change ME to get there, so be it.

So, what did your husband do to get you in the mood? What can you say about his success and failures doing that? Thanks!


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

If you are changing you just to get sex, or doing ANYTHING just as a means to get sex, she may be on to that and find that unattractive as well. FYI. Sounds like you are basically willing to do anything for sex.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Which you're already getting twice a week. After 35 years of me sacrificing to please my H, I have finally come to a place where he accepts that I want it no more than ONCE a week. That is OUR compromise. Maybe, deep down, you just want to be free to go out and score all the wild and crazy sex you never got to have...maybe you WANT her to be that person to provide it, but getting it has become your new holy grail. Retirement can cause significant shifts in mindsets that way.


----------



## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

November said:


> <<<<Look closely at what you wrote here. She didn't just "change moods", and she wasn't lying about how she felt... You did something, and that put her in the mood. Read up on responsive desire, and practice your sensual massage skills. >>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly depends how exhausted I really am. Sometimes he can't change my mind, as I really need to have my entire body shut down and sleep. Those are nights he really needs to be mindful that I need rest. I get pretty upset if he's not hearing my needs and only thinking on sex.

I enjoy feeling relaxed have a sensual back rub and not for 2mins to be pressured into having sex. I would love a real 10-15min. Some wine and music, dancing with my husband while singing to me. Having a great night out, while being a gentleman. When I am feeling loved in ways other than sex it triggers me to want to reciprocate In ways my husband wants to feel loved. 

Those big projects that you have yet to do, start working on those as that shows your placing effort into completing tasks that need to get done. 

If you want her to feel more invitating than show her in other ways other than trying to advance in sex. Try to not find ways to get sex, find how you can better please your wife. Ask what she needs of you. I would possibily hold off a day or so and give her great sex.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> She is SHOWING you what she wants - where she's now at. Sex IS NOT HER PRIORITY. And thus she IS too tired to want sex at that moment. She DOESN'T feel like it, because whatever she's doing IS more important to her than sex at the moment.
> 
> That's what I've been trying to tell you.
> 
> ...


turnera,

Good post, but we'll have to agree to disagree on a few things.....

First, you CAN change one's behavior, and you CAN compromise on anything, including sex. Now, there's ways to do this successfully, and that's what I'd like to learn here. I'm partially there... it has gotten better over time.

And I totally agree on "it's all in the head for most women", and that's what I want to change. No, I don't want to force her (and I don't want to be forced, either), but as one can be changed, I'm all for it... and I have no problem being the one that changes first. Will do it. I've already backed off a bit on the attention, and she misses it, and I needed to.

As for changing people, they ABSOLUTELY can change... some changes are harder than others... and some really hard. I listened to Cory Wayne's clip (as referenced on the thread), and that's exactly how to change people. I've done it 100s of times, and have even experimented with it to see how it works. But, always looking for new ways.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

New_Beginnings said:


> Honestly depends how exhausted I really am. Sometimes he can't change my mind, as I really need to have my entire body shut down and sleep. Those are nights he really needs to be mindful that I need rest. I get pretty upset if he's not hearing my needs and only thinking on sex.
> 
> I enjoy feeling relaxed have a sensual back rub and not for 2mins to be pressured into having sex. I would love a real 10-15min. Some wine and music, dancing with my husband while singing to me. Having a great night out, while being a gentleman. When I am feeling loved in ways other than sex it triggers me to want to reciprocate In ways my husband wants to feel loved.
> 
> ...



New_Beginnings,

Spot on.... just over the past few days I've backed off a bit, and jump onto one of the projects, and she woke me with a pleasant surprise this morning. She was HOT.

As for tired, sometimes we tire... but with our time freedom, that's pretty rare, but nonetheless, I need to be aware that it is a valid reason. As for the massages, music and dancing... do a lot of that, and I never tire of that, often to give her a long massage just for the fun of it regardless where it leads. Just started dancing lessons... fun.

Good post, thx.... I'm working on improvement.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Changing a person's inherent sex drive is not in the mind. It's hormonal. You're never going to get someone who only wants sex a couple of times a week to become a person who wants sex every day or even every other day. Did your wife ever want sex all the time, once past the initial new relationship honeymoon period? No? Then she isn't suddenly going to become high drive no matter what you do. And expecting her to will only disappoint you and frustrate her. She may end up feeling like she isn't good enough, and nothing she does sexually is good enough for you.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> Which you're already getting twice a week. After 35 years of me sacrificing to please my H, I have finally come to a place where he accepts that I want it no more than ONCE a week. That is OUR compromise. Maybe, deep down, you just want to be free to go out and score all the wild and crazy sex you never got to have...maybe you WANT her to be that person to provide it, but getting it has become your new holy grail. Retirement can cause significant shifts in mindsets that way.


Tunera,

Only once a week just wouldn't do for either of us. Sorry you don't enjoy it more... it's VERY loving and bonding and really when done right brings people together.

I don't need to score any wild and crazy sex, we've done that, and she will provide it occasionally, but that's not really the goal. Also, it's not a "holy grail", just another one of many goals. Retirement worked pretty well for us, but we've been semi retired for many years prior, and still keep our hand in some business activities. Not a huge change.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> .....Yes, we can communicate easily without talking, and do. *As for the lame excuses, my counselor agrees with me and has told me to tread carefully and slowing get rid of them without offending her, and I'm working on that*. And we have had counseling together, not successful, but my IC is great and has helped both of us a lot.
> 
> And *we DO understand each others views, even if we don't always agree.* We do agree to disagree, but have made the agreement that either is free to try to improve the other... and often, it works.
> 
> ...


I have a few more thoughts for you. Read what you posted above and think about what you posted and what you felt when you posed the above.

Even if a counselor agrees with you that your wife's excuses are "lame," it doesn't mean that you should think of them as lame. The advice to treat carefully was good. Next time you see your IC, ask again, if in your own mind you should label her excuses as "lame." I'll wager the IC says that they are just your wife's words or reality she is projecting to you. 

Again, one of the things I learned in a Gottmans art and science of love workshop with my wife was that before I should attempt to negotiate a grid lock issue with my wife, such a sex frequency, I had better be able to articulate her position as well or better than she can. Have you invested enough time listening and understanding what your wife has told you as to why she doesn't want to have sex more frequently than twice a week? 

If you have, then her excuses will not be excuses, but reasons. If you have invested enough time to understand her position, then her REASONS will not be lame. 

You may not always agree, but do you take the time to understand? 

As to setting boundaries and abiding by them, I have a question for you to think about. Should sexual frequency for either the HD or LD partner be a "boundary" that one set for the other? Should it be a negotiated boundary? 

When I was in a sex starved marriage, my wife set a very low boundary of little to no sex. I told her that her boundary was not acceptable to me. Our Sex Therapist helped us negotiate a 3 times a week frequency to continue the marriage in a way that both could live with. After about a month, my wife said that was too frequent and the ST helped us reach a compromise of twice a week. Do I think that twice a week is my ideal? NO. Is it far better than once a month to once every couple months or not at all? HECK YES. Would I like more frequent sex? YES. Would my wife like more frequent sex? HECK NO. This is a compromise that we can both live with. More importantly, it is a compromise that we both understand is a workable compromise and that we are both committed to.

Have my wife and I with the help of a ST negotiated a boundary of sex twice a week give or take a little white noise? Yes, we have and we are striving to live up to that.

Is sex with my wife a Win-Win? I like to think so. Your posts suggest that you would find anything less than your every other day sex not a win-win, even if it would involves great stress for you wife.

Now to close this off with why you are partially posting things on TAM. You say that part of what you are looking for is to get ideas for improvement of her. Let those words sink in for a minute. Do some serious introspection on them

Let's pretend that you love running half marathons (like I do), but you wife will not even run a 5K with you (like mine). You go to a runners website and ask how do I improve my wife so she will do two half marathons a year with me, as I view it as a win-win? 

People might tell you that you may never get her to run a half marathon with you let alone two a year. People may suggest that you try to find happiness just going for walks holding hands. People may tell you that she will never be a runner unless she in her own mind wants to be a runner. 

No amount of fancy running shoes, pretty stretch pants, special running socks, or stretching exercises may turn her into a twice a year half marathoner. Can you understand that? Can you live with that and still have a happy marriage?

More importantly, can you understand that only your wife can can change her own love or hate for running. You can't do that by purchasing shoes, clothes, or coaches. It is up to her. 

If you give her medical journal articles on the health benefits of running and how it will not only lengthen and improve her life, but make you happy, do you think she will put on her jogging outfit and shoes and head out the door? What if she gives you "lame excuses" about why she doesn't have time or desire to go running or it hurts? As a runner you know those are just that, excuses, and not real reasons not to experience the benefits and joys of running.

What you can do (and all you can do) is show her how much pleasure you derive from running and if she wants to someday jog with you take it easy, don't go very far and make sure you give her positive reinforcement. But it will always be her decision on if she runs even a block. 

Count your blessings, but more importantly cherish this woman who has put up with you. Listen to her and value what she says. Try harder to understand her and what she is saying to you. 

P.S. A couple times a year, my wife and I and another couple will go out of town to a fancy hotel. The other husband and I are signed up for a run and our wives will either participate in a charity walk, sleep in, or just go shopping. It is a highlight for the four of us each year and something we look forward to. It is also a compromise that works and is based on respecting everyone's opinions.
​


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

MRR said:


> If you are changing you just to get sex, or doing ANYTHING just as a means to get sex, she may be on to that and find that unattractive as well. FYI. Sounds like you are basically willing to do anything for sex.


:iagree:

Glover in his book NMMNG refers to covert contracts as things one does to try to get someone to do something in return without telling them and explicitly negotiating it. 

This does sound a bit like a covert contract, which doesn't work and doubly doesn't work with a long time spouse who can see right through the attempt to change her.


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

November,

You are not going to like what I'm going to say, but here goes...

Your wife probably lies to you when she says she likes more sex, probably to avoid a long discussion on why she doesn't want more. I'll bet the farm that she wishes you would just stop badgering her with this, and from your previous posts I came to the following conclusion:

Your wife knows that you desperately want to change her to be more HD, and that turns her off more. Why? Because you are not listening to what SHE wants. She shows this through her actions. They say watch her actions ,not her words. 

If she wanted more sex, you would be having more sex, and you wouldn't be here. You say that her reasons for not having sex are excuses, bet you that she builds more resentment every time you invalidate her reasons and feelings. I wonder which counselors you are listening to, you need to read more of what your wife is communicating to you instead of trying to change her to something she is not. Which will frustrate both of you.

She probably looked forward to this time in her life as one free from stress of raising kids and working. But your constant pursuit of changing her is adding needless stress. You think you are doing this for the both of you, but in reality your wife sees this as you pressuring her.

You stated that you left her alone for a week and she pursued you. Did you also withdraw affection and kindness during that time as well? Did you resort to passive aggression, just to prove a point and make her feel as rejected as you would feel when she refuses sex?


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

techmom said:


> November,
> 
> You are not going to like what I'm going to say, but here goes...
> 
> ...


techmom:
Please read the thread so you can comment better, as there is little truth to your post and a lot of information you got wrong, but just not paying attention. I'll ignore you.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> I have a few more thoughts for you. Read what you posted above and think about what you posted and what you felt when you posed the above.
> 
> Even if a counselor agrees with you that your wife's excuses are "lame," it doesn't mean that you should think of them as lame. The advice to treat carefully was good. Next time you see your IC, ask again, if in your own mind you should label her excuses as "lame." I'll wager the IC says that they are just your wife's words or reality she is projecting to you.
> 
> ...


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

November said:


> techmom:
> 
> Well, I guess you know her better than I do... so perhaps you would like to move in?
> 
> Other than that, your post is worthless, and if you had been paying attention, you could have offered some good advise or just said nothing. I'll ignore you.


^^Is this the way you talk to your wife when she says something you don't want to hear? It could explain a lot.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> ^^Is this the way you talk to your wife when she says something you don't want to hear? It could explain a lot.


I've reposted the above for a more appropriate answer, suggest you do the same.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Perhaps this thread has run it course. Thank you for those who have made constructive and helpful comments. In the short few days of this thread, I've certainly learned a lot and my wife and I have already benefited. The past few days have been great.

And for those that insist on posting inappropriately without paying attention, perhaps you can find better use of your time than post at all. Too bad a lot of internet forums have people like you that do more harm than good. But fortunately most people are just fine.

Thanks again.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> techmom:
> Please read the thread so you can comment better, as there is little truth to your post and a lot of information you got wrong, but just not paying attention. I'll ignore you.


Interesting that you didn't like what techmom said, since it's pretty much exactly what the rest of us have been trying to tell you; you just couldn't avoid the blunt way she said it. You STILL want HER to change to be what YOU want. All the suggestions we've given you to change YOUR behavior, except for pulling back, you've ignored.

And this:


> Your wife probably lies to you when she says she likes more sex, probably to avoid a long discussion on why she doesn't want more. I'll bet the farm that she wishes you would just stop badgering her with this


Is exactly what I was thinking the first post of yours I read. You think women tell men the truth about sex? Think again. We do what it takes to deal with our partner's stronger sex drive. Women have been doing it for tens of thousands of years.

Which is why we keep trying to tell you if you want more sex from her, you have to give her a REASON to want more sex with you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

November said:


> And for those that insist on posting inappropriately without paying attention, perhaps you can find better use of your time than post at all. Too bad a lot of internet forums have people like you that do more harm than good. But fortunately most people are just fine.
> 
> Thanks again.


I agree - a visit to your IC is long overdue. Print out this thread and take it to him/her. Ask him/her what he/she thinks.

I think that this reaction above says a lot about your personality. And do you remember what I said at the very beginning? I said that women want sex based on emotion. They have to feel a connection before they can want sex. The stronger the connection, the more they want sex. The more Love Busters you give her, the less she wants to have sex. The more you pester her for sex (and please understand this comes in VERY subtle ways; women are always on the watch for them), the more you are Love Busting her. You're your own worst enemy by focusing on getting HER to change than on figuring out how to make YOU the most attractive, exciting, interesting man on the planet, the man she wants to claim.

Anyway, see what your IC says. I hope you'll be brave enough to show him/her this thread.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

> And this:
> 
> 
> > Your wife probably lies to you when she says she likes more sex, probably to avoid a long discussion on why she doesn't want more. I'll bet the farm that she wishes you would just stop badgering her with this
> ...


This is good, I agree with it 

On the other hand. The OP has been, I don't know what the right term is - badgered, slammed, criticized, put down? For the statement that his wife makes "lame excuses". Well, guess what - "We do what it takes to deal with our partners stronger sex drive" is just a different, perhaps more pleasant or less offensive way of saying you make lame excuses. 

An excuse that is a lie is a lame excuse.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Even if he feels they're lame, they still deserve consideration. If they really are lies, then he needs to take a look at why his wife feels the need to lie to him.

Dismissing her reasons without really hearing them will not help his cause.

He says she wants more sex, but that she makes excuses to avoid it. I doubt both of those statements are true. Either she doesn't really want more, or she does want more and he doesn't believe her when she tells him why it's not happening.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

They are lame to him. They are valid to her because SHE DOES NOT WANT MORE SEX.

He is just determined to CHANGE that.

And btw, why does she have to make excuses in the first place? If he weren't pushing for it so much (Love Buster), she wouldn't feel compelled to come UP with excuses.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

turnera said:


> And btw, why does she have to make excuses in the first place? If he weren't pushing for it so much (Love Buster), she wouldn't feel compelled to come UP with excuses.


Hence the advice to work on himself, so she will want to come to him. 

Unfortunately, that requires figuring out what appeals to her specifically, which would mean he had to listen to her, and not just hear what he wants to hear. 

OP seems to have a talent for dismissing thoughts that he doesn't like or agree with. So did my XH, which is why he never could figure out how to turn me on. Instead, he did what he thought should work, not what I actually liked. Just saying...


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

BS is BS, call her on it. Push for truth not sex. When you've achieved truth decide if you can live with it. 

I agree with the both statements can't be true although I must have missed something where she told him why it wan't happening...


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

turnera said:


> And btw, why does she have to make excuses in the first place? If he weren't pushing for it so much (Love Buster), she wouldn't feel compelled to come UP with excuses.


Ahh, the key of the matter. She doesn't need to make excuses she could say NO. Why not? BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO. But that would lead to a confrontation and an argument and an actual resolution that might mean the end or an actual agreement on what is reasonable. 

And BTW, I happen to think what he's got is pretty reasonable


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

anonmd said:


> BS is BS, call her on it. Push for truth not sex. When you've achieved truth decide if you can live with it.
> 
> I agree with the both statements can't be true although I must have missed something where she told him why it wan't happening...


When he asks, she's tired, busy, or not in the mood. He said he doesn't believe these things are true... that she can't be tired or busy, and that if she really wasn't in the mood, she wouldn't be able to "just change moods" when he showed her affection and then she changed her mind.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

So she didn't tell him.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

anonmd said:


> So she didn't tell him.


Possibly, yes. Or maybe these reasons are real and he still doesn't believe her, so he only thinks she didn't tell him.

Or maybe she did tell him ("I just don't want to", whatever), and he didn't accept her reason, so she resorted to excuses. That's what I'm betting on. He's made it clear that info he doesn't like gets dismissed as worthless.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

I also think it's interesting that he's dismissed any suggestions to work on himself and make himself more attractive to her. He doesn't seem to think this is worthwhile.

He seems to feel this is her problem. If this was a sex starved marriage, I might agree, but it's not. He wants her to go above and beyond, but doesn't seem to think he should do the same. Then he wonders why it's not working.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

NoSizeQueen said:


> Possibly, yes. Or maybe these reasons are real and he still doesn't believe her, so he only thinks she didn't tell him.
> 
> Or maybe she did tell him ("I just don't want to", whatever), and he didn't accept her reason, so she resorted to excuses. That's what I'm betting on. He's made it clear that info he doesn't like gets dismissed as worthless.


Rodger, quite possibly 

My opinion, FWIW. Any advice to stumble around in the dark trying various self improvement things, trying to light her responsive desire etc. is frankly useless in this case. They need to talk directly and not beat around the bush, perhaps with a third party. The end result of which will probably be no change! 

And slightly in the guys defense, he probably didn't always dismiss her excuses as worthless. But he also doesn't accept that he just can't get what he wants.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

I agree that these two need more honesty. They don't seem to have created an environment where honesty is welcome and accepted.


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

As long as this guy isn't receptive to taking criticism, his wife won't be able to TELL him why she doesn't want to have sex. His actions in this thread indicate otherwise. If he doesn't like what he hears he shuts it down.

I feel sorry for his wife. ..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Based on his fixation, they have no doubt discussed it to the point that she feels the need to have an excuse. And in his efforts, he has certainly come across as needy, further dropping the attraction. 

Personally, I think all the 'direct conversation' is what has actually run it's course. The OP (who does not seem to be very objective at all) should focus for a time on becoming his best self and developing his interests and PURPOSE. And not focus on her reaction to it, because then it becomes, as previously pointed out in this thread, what Glover refers to as the covert contracts. Which of course leads to passive aggressive behavior, resentment, unattractiveness in general, and LESS SEX or APPEASEMENT SEX (which he is no doubt getting right now). 

In any case, he doesn't seem to open to any of this. He thinks sexual desire can be consciously changed and, like I have been trying to say, you do not CHOOSE attraction/physical desire.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NoSizeQueen said:


> Hence the advice to work on himself, so she will want to come to him.
> 
> Unfortunately, that requires figuring out what appeals to her specifically,


November, if you're still reading, have you read the book His Needs Her Needs yet? It will explain a lot of what I've been talking about - how learning more about what's going on in her mind and helping her see what's going on in your mind will help you become more on the same page about it.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> What's and HD or LD? And, yes boundaries should be negotiated and agreed upon, like you did below.o
> 
> What's an ST?
> 
> ...


HD/LD High sexual Demand/Desire, LD Low sexual Demand/Desire

ST Sex Therapist

Improving you is all you can do. Only your wife can change herself and only if she wants to. You can reinforce her changes that you like. 

Finally, sex and running do have a lot more in common than you give them credit for. I am sure you have heard of the fight or flight response? Sex may have started out for procreation, but running started out for survival.

If you have tried introducing her to a "sport" and it went over like a led balloon, make sure that your trying to up her performance in the "sport" of sex doesn't end up the same way for you.

Good luck.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

techmom said:


> As long as this guy isn't receptive to taking criticism, his wife won't be able to TELL him why she doesn't want to have sex. His actions in this thread indicate otherwise. If he doesn't like what he hears he shuts it down.
> 
> I feel sorry for his wife. ..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree. She probably says what she says to get him to shut up already.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> I also think it's interesting that he's dismissed any suggestions to work on himself and make himself more attractive to her. He doesn't seem to think this is worthwhile.
> 
> *He seems to feel this is her problem. If this was a sex starved marriage, I might agree,* but it's not. He wants her to go above and beyond, but doesn't seem to think he should do the same. Then he wonders why it's not working.


:iagree: (Mostly)

One of the hardest realities I had to learn in my sex starved marriage, before it was cured was that I was part of the problem and not just the victim of a wife that didn't want to have sex with me any more.

That is a really hard lesson to learn. It is much easier to say that your partner is broken and needs to be fixed and then everything will be just fine. Looking for the right drug, hormone treatment, counselor to solve the problem of your spouse doesn't really work all that well. 

MW Davis in her book the Sex Starved Marriage talks about how even if you are certain you are the victim, you are probably also part of the problem.

I had to figure out what I had been doing to hurt my wife and make her so angry she didn't want sex with me, before things got better. I had to apologize to her and tell her the specific things I did wrong that hurt her, ask her forgiveness and show her through actions that I wasn't going to do them again. 

When I stopped hurting her and actually started to make her feel loved; that is when she wanted to save the marriage, but it took the help of a great Sex Therapist to finish what I had started with my wife. 

Before I asked my wife to go with me to a sex therapist, I read her a page from David Schnarch's book the Passionate Marriage about how there is no right amount of sex in a good marriage and how it is all about compromise. That neither the LD or HD person is broken. She agreed with that and so going to a Sex Therapist wasn't an admission to her that she was broken or I was broken; it was that we needed help in negotiating a compromise we could both live with.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> November, if you're still reading, have you read the book His Needs Her Needs yet? It will explain a lot of what I've been talking about - how learning more about what's going on in her mind and helping her see what's going on in your mind will help you become more on the same page about it.


Yes, I'm still watching this post, and I've read part of the His Needs Her Needs book. It does have some good points and worth reading, but has a lot of old and condescending info, and fair reviews. Still worth it, however.

I'm spending time working on things from the good info I received here (and other places). and it will help. 

Unfortunately, like a lot of internet forums, this thread has turned to very negative comments that offer no help and clear that the poster had no intention of helping but just to criticize, and way off the scale. If one reads the past few pages, it's pretty disgusting. 

We are doing fine. This is not a crises, and we'll make it. It's not the end of the world. This will be solved, and whatever the outcome, we will both be happy. We don't lie to each other, and don't hate each other, and the vast majority of the time we are just great.... now, taking her out for some fun activities this morning.


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Just an update...

I've implemented the good advise from this thread and have notice some improvement all ready. I've back off with any "pressure" for sex all together, and just instigate when appropriate and works fine. Yes, I still want more, the the quality this past week or so has been just great. However, this week isn't the "average" week with Thanksgiving, and normally it's a great time for us and certainly was.

Will keep it up, and see how it goes. Overall a really good week. As things develop, hope to be back to report, and/or ask for more help.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

November said:


> I've back off with any "pressure" for sex all together, and just instigate when appropriate and works fine.


Thanks for the update. My wife will go between complaining that I am too pushy for sex, and at the same time thanking me for being pushy because she likes it when I am a "bad boy!" I find humor to be the magic ingredient that allows me to stay pushy while at the same time giving comic relief to the usual means of "pressure."

Here is an example, my wife will ask me for a favor for something around the house, and I'll gladly offer to do it. But then I'll explain that usually I would expect sex in exchange for my favors but that today I am not in the mood and I'll look at her and ask "what" she is planning to do in return for my favor. .... at this point she will usually try to grab at me to see if she can give me an erection. I'll pretend to get upsetting tell her that I will force my erection to go away and that I am not going to let her manipulate me anymore! ...at this point she will be putting her boobs in my face. I pretend not to like it but obviously my erection will say otherwise. ... my point being is that this type of playfulness gives HER a chance to be a perv. It also gives her a big boost to her self confidence.

Seriously, try to find a playful scenario in which you tell your wife that there is no way she can get you aroused, and then make it SO EASY for her to prove you wrong. No wife can resist that game of boosting her confidence!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

badsanta said:


> I find humor to be the magic ingredient
> 
> Seriously, try to find a playful scenario
> 
> ...


:iagree:


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> Just an update...
> 
> I've implemented the good advise from this thread and have notice some improvement all ready. I've back off with any "pressure" for sex all together, and just instigate when appropriate and works fine. Yes, I still want more, the the quality this past week or so has been just great. However, this week isn't the "average" week with Thanksgiving, and normally it's a great time for us and certainly was.
> 
> Will keep it up, and see how it goes. Overall a really good week. As things develop, hope to be back to report, and/or ask for more help.


First, you did a 180 by backing off to reduce the pressure on her. Good for you! She responded in a positive manner. Good for her.

WHAT DID YOU DO TO REINFORCE HER POSITIVE BEHAVIOR?

What did you do that was way outside of ordinary behavior to reinforce her change that you want her to continue? If the answer is nothing, then you made a big mistake.

The whole point of doing a 180 is to get the response you got. If you didn't reinforce it you are making it very difficult for future 180's to succeed.

A 180 needs to be done out of love and respect with no expectation for anything in return. If your spouse likes the "new you" you need to reinforce her behavior. You also need to be consistent in your new you (i.e. the I've backed off the pressure) otherwise she will not view this as a change. She needs to learn that you have changed so she can change.

Now go out and do something nice for her and tell her it was because you haven't felt this close to her in quite a while and that you love her to pieces. 

Good luck​


----------



## November (Nov 28, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> First, you did a 180 by backing off to reduce the pressure on her. Good for you! She responded in a positive manner. Good for her.
> 
> WHAT DID YOU DO TO REINFORCE HER POSITIVE BEHAVIOR?
> 
> ...


Young,

Good points.

I always reinforce her positive behavior, regardless. Always have, so that's not an issue. Usually with a complement, and a thanks, if she does something special for me, or something just expected. I never "expect" that she does something specifically special for me, but she does anyway, as I do for her. That is not a problem.

And we always have a expectation from doing something. It could be as simple as the satisfaction of making her happy, which makes us happy, and that's good enough.

*"Now go out and do something nice for her and tell her it was because you haven't felt this close to her in quite a while and that you love her to pieces. "*

Young, that is not a problem, I have always felt close to her, and she to me... that has not changed. We have always "loved each other to pieces".

My goal, and the premise of this thread was to seek ideas to excite her libido, and get her more into sex. Haven't reached the goal, but the last week has been great. However, time will tell.

As for my 180, the only thing I did was just backed off the pressure... nothing else. I still imply sex, but not as aggressively. If it happens, great; if not, I'll do something for her that she likes.... rub, massage, make her a snack, whatever. And it's working just fine.


----------



## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

I agree with Young on the positive reinforcement.

The amount of "reward" (so to speak) that you were giving resulted in the amount of sex you were getting. If you want more sex, in a sustainable and long term way, then you should give more reward.

Of course it would be great if she would just do it to make you happy. But if it was that simple, she would have already been doing it and you wouldn't be looking for a way to get more. 

If you want more, give more. In a loving relationship, what you give will come back to you. If you don't reward her for the increase in sex, she will not be getting back what she's giving, and will probably start to give less, so you'll be back where you started.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

November said:


> ....I always reinforce her positive behavior, regardless. Always have, so that's not an issue....
> 
> ....Young, that is not a problem, I have always felt close to her, and she to me... that has not changed. We have always "loved each other to pieces".
> 
> ...


Again, I urge you to get one of the books by MW Davis, so you can see what she says about 180's and how to do them properly. Your 180 is working and it is one of the one's she usually suggests. You would probably benefit from reading why she believes it works and typical problems associated with properly implementing it. Buy or borrow the book.

As to "exciting her libido and get her more into sex" that is kind of cart before the horse. Only your wife can make those changes and only if she wants to. You can't force any change on her, only she can change herself. She owns her own libido. Whether she is into sex with you or not is also something that is deep within her mind. You can change yourself and the way you treat her to reduce any negatives, you can make yourself more attractive to her, make her feel more loved, but ultimately her sexual desire level may never be what you want. 

As I said earlier you can reinforce her changes. So my advice is to really focus on that area of reinforcement when she does things you like.

Some would view B F Skinner's operant conditioning or Ivan Pavlov conditioning his dogs as forcing change. Yet others would view it as reinforcing change. I view it as reinforcing changed behavior. 

What you need to understand is that you have been conditioning your wife for the entire time you have known her and been married to her. You just probably didn't realize it. She has been doing the same to you even if only on a subconscious level.

You are now saying in your posts that her past behavior is no longer what you want in your marriage. You want change in a specific direction. She may not want to change or be capable of as much change as you want.

While I would not suggest you give her an M&M each time she has sex with you, you can use the science of physiology. which is why I stressed positive reinforcement.

But since, you do reinforce her positive changes, I guess there is no need for you to do anything else.:wink2: Good luck 

P.S. One of the great things about marriage is that she will know what you are really thinking. So if she senses that you are trying to manipulate her, that will probably complicate things. This is why it needs to be done on the basis of unconditional love. 

​


----------

