# Financial Independence



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Last Friday, I attended a public financial planning luncheon hosted by a women's professional group. Women from all walks of life and background were in attendance - SAHM, white collar professionals, entrepreneurs, single moms....you name it, they were there. I would estimate there were about 100 women in attendance. 

The female financial planner opened up her presentation by asking the married women to raise their hands if they'd be able to provide financially for their families in the short-term, in the event of a catastrophic life changing event like the death, debilitating disease, or abandonment of their spouse. Maybe a handful of women raised their hands, and that was only after a slight pause. The financial planner then went on to ask how many of them thought their husbands would have no difficulties providing financially for the family if the shoe were on the other foot (the wives who became disabled, died, or abandoned their families). Most women raised her hands. 

The point of the questions was to show that even in today's world of equal rights, women are still not as financially independent as their male counterparts. She said most women are expected, on some level, to sacrifice their earning power to raise their families. She made sure to emphasize that there was absolutely nothing wrong with doing that.....as long as women went into it having a financial plan in case of disaster. 

She stressed the importance of long term and short term financial planning for all women regardless of working status. Nest eggs and personal (not joint) investment accounts, especially with women who give up careers to raise their families. 

Her talk really got me thinking about the time I posted about my husband accepting a lateral move to a very high risk but 'more challenging' position (he was bored at work). A couple of years ago I decided to give up the commission portion of my job in exchange for a more flexible schedule (less traveling, less work, more time taking care of son and the homefront). When H hit me with his 'good news', I sort of went into panic mode. There was no guarantee that H was going to succeed at a position where 3 other people had failed in less than 5 years. When I mentioned that going back to my old commission job would mean H having to pick up the slack at home, people questioned my decision, some even stating I was only putting my needs before my child's welfare. That one hurt a lot and it was something that I felt would have never been said to a man in a similar position. 

My little situation confirmed what the financial planner spoke about on Friday. Even in today's era of equal rights, married women are still expected to take a back seat or dependent role financially. These decisions are usually made without consideration to a worse-case scenario. In other words, we hope for the best, but rarely plan for the worse.

Having been on TAM for a while, I commonly see posts that say "cut her off from the bank accounts and see how she likes living without your support". Frankly, this type of thinking scares the living he!! out of me. It's why the financial planner's presentation really shocked me. It seems like this financial disparity is the 600-lb gorilla in the room. We're aware it exists but it's not something that's typically acknowledged. 

Anyways, just thought it would be an interesting discussion point.

If you were to suffer a catastrophic event, as described above, would you be able to support your family financially?

Is individual financial planning/independence something you've given any thought to?

Do you agree/disagree that this is the 600-lb gorilla that women fail to deal with/talk about/plan for in their marriage? Why, why not?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think it's somewhat of a scare tactic plan. If the couple has a joint account, he can't just cut her out of the account without her signature. My husband and I had 2 joint accounts and when we decided to take my name off one of them for a few reasons, I had to sign papers in order for the bank to take me off the account. If I did not sign it, I would have access to that account no matter what my husband tried. He also can't empty the account without me signing off. The bank would call me first before allowing him. So, with that, I see the whole "oh no, husband won't help you financially" as a scare tactic that doesn't work so well. 

I followed a similar path to what my mom chose in life and I am happy with it. I went to college and earned my degree. I had good work experience and then became a SAHM. I have savings put away and I keep up with changing information in my field. If something happened to my husband, I have a good amount of money that can hold us over until I find a full time job to support myself and our son. I'm really not worried about it and I can't think of any woman I know who blindly went into marriage just depending on a man financially without some thought process for the future. Maybe this was an issue for a different era, but I don't know of anyone in my age range who would do that.


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## sydalg (Nov 8, 2015)

Statistic shows we are not that far behind to be able to provide for our families and many men do. Maybe the mayority of the ladies who have time for those type of events are in the same boat of not being equally able to provide for their families in the event that life changes drastically. My personal case and if not 50% maybe more of our friends have it just like we do. I have been the main provider for my family since I 1st meet my husband. For the last 4 years of something were to happen like he loosing his job or not able to work we will still be ok with my income alone. If it was the other way around the we would have to adjust and even move to a smaller place to be ok. In the event I die my husband and kids will have the house paid, insurance money and a pretty descent 401k money. If it was the other way around then I will only have the same amount of insurance but nothing else. My point I came to the relationship financially eatable and not in the need of a man for his income. If we were to be divorce I be better off even if he can't afford child support. Not that he won't do it but just an example of how well establish I was and will be. When we got married and even from time to time talking to friends I heard comments from woman's asking how is that We don't have separate bank accounts or I am not stashing money away for a "just in case. I am shock how often this comes up. I am Puerto Rican raise by a single mom who thought her 3 girls not depend on any man. He is a Southern gentleman who was also raise mostly by his mom after his dad passed away. We have friends where the woman is the one making the most money, the stay at home moms married to men's in different parts of US Forces that choose to stay home period but they have been on and off different types of jobs. I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, according to the ladies in your brunch that may be the case but the reasons behind are totally different. Is no longer because we don't have equal opportunities but because the ladies are choosing this roll. In my personal case I am very proud that I don't owe my financial situation to NO Man.


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## sydalg (Nov 8, 2015)

*as many men's do. Sorry for all the typos. Cell phone, a toddler and English being my 3rd language doesn't really help. Lol


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
If either my wife or I suddenly died, the other could support themselves at an adequate but lower than present standard of living. We both work, I earn more, but she has more cash from a good sized inheritance.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

intheory said:


> H and I have switched back and forth as far as who makes the most, over our entire relationship.
> 
> Right now, he works and I don't.
> 
> ...


Your bolded statement makes me sad Intheory. Why do you think you'd be poor for the rest of your life?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I think it's somewhat of a scare tactic plan. If the couple has a joint account, he can't just cut her out of the account without her signature. My husband and I had 2 joint accounts and when we decided to take my name off one of them for a few reasons, I had to sign papers in order for the bank to take me off the account. If I did not sign it, I would have access to that account no matter what my husband tried. He also can't empty the account without me signing off. The bank would call me first before allowing him. So, with that, I see the whole "oh no, husband won't help you financially" as a scare tactic that doesn't work so well.
> 
> I followed a similar path to what my mom chose in life and I am happy with it. I went to college and earned my degree. I had good work experience and then became a SAHM. I have savings put away and I keep up with changing information in my field. If something happened to my husband, I have a good amount of money that can hold us over until I find a full time job to support myself and our son. I'm really not worried about it and I can't think of any woman I know who blindly went into marriage just depending on a man financially without some thought process for the future. *Maybe this was an issue for a different era, but I don't know of anyone in my age range who would do that.*


There was probably a bit of a scare tactic involved in the financial planner's presentation, she was there to sell her services, but the responses from the crowd were really what got me thinking. This was a mixed crowd made up of mostly of members of the Women's Professional Group who hosted the luncheon. Many of these women have good careers yet they still hesitated when asked the question. 

It could be you're right in that the issues are probably more generational than not. I'm 41 and it seems like my generation is the on the low end of the tipping scale. The younger generation seem to have a better grasp on the situation and I think that has a lot to do with parents raising their daughters to be financially 'aware'. 

My parents drilled it into our heads to never rely on _anyone_ for financial support (I would call my upbringing as financially 'distrustful' than 'aware' but the end result is about the same). However, I can tell you that this wasn't the case with many of the women I grew up with. I was raised in a different culture so maybe that has something to do with it too?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

sydalg said:


> Statistic shows we are not that far behind to be able to provide for our families and many men do. Maybe the mayority of the ladies who have time for those type of events are in the same boat of not being equally able to provide for their families in the event that life changes drastically. My personal case and if not 50% maybe more of our friends have it just like we do. I have been the main provider for my family since I 1st meet my husband. For the last 4 years of something were to happen like he loosing his job or not able to work we will still be ok with my income alone. If it was the other way around the we would have to adjust and even move to a smaller place to be ok. In the event I die my husband and kids will have the house paid, insurance money and a pretty descent 401k money. If it was the other way around then I will only have the same amount of insurance but nothing else. My point I came to the relationship financially eatable and not in the need of a man for his income. If we were to be divorce I be better off even if he can't afford child support. Not that he won't do it but just an example of how well establish I was and will be. When we got married and even from time to time talking to friends I heard comments from woman's asking how is that We don't have separate bank accounts or I am not stashing money away for a "just in case. I am shock how often this comes up. I am Puerto Rican raise by a single mom who thought her 3 girls not depend on any man. He is a Southern gentleman who was also raise mostly by his mom after his dad passed away. We have friends where the woman is the one making the most money, the stay at home moms married to men's in different parts of US Forces that choose to stay home period but they have been on and off different types of jobs. I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, according to the ladies in your brunch that may be the case but the reasons behind are totally different. Is no longer because we don't have equal opportunities but because the ladies are choosing this roll. In my personal case I am very proud that I don't owe my financial situation to NO Man.


That's why I found the responses so strange. Statistics show one thing but what I'm wondering is if the reality is as different I observed at the luncheon. The majority of the women in attendance were members of the Women's Professional Group that hosted the luncheon. These are white collar professionals with good careers. Are these women doing a poor job of investing their hard earned money? Are they blowing it all on frills? Are they sugar mommas supporting a stud? Don't know. 

My response was that I could support my family but maybe I'm an outlier? Apparently not based on the responses received so far.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I was the wage earner, and my wife a SAHM. When I was 40 my financials were dismal. but the company offered a rather large life insurance policy, and I had a 401K. 

If I had died, my wife could have paid off the house with the insurance policy, and she could have lived modestly without having to get a job....

If my wife had died, I would have continued to work to support myself, so even with modest means, the wife is taken care of, but the husband continues to work....

I kept a large portion of my 401K in company stock. It split twice, My 401K increased 500%.....

I took it out of volatile investments, so it is now safe....

I have retired, and a recent inheritance has allowed us to become totally debt free. 

If either of us died, the other could live comfortably, since our only bills are food, utilities, insurance, and taxes....

We live in Arkansas, so our property tax is low. Property tax and personal property tax combined are under $1200 a year, and we could sell at least 2 cars which would lower taxes and insurance considerably. 

my wife still worries because we don't have any life insurance, but as I explained to her, we can afford our final expenses without insurance........


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Lila said:


> The female financial planner opened up her presentation by asking the married women to raise their hands if they'd be able to provide financially for their families today in the event a catastrophic life changing event like the death, debilitating disease, or abandonment of their spouse. Maybe a handful of women raised their hands, and that was only after a slight pause. The financial planner then went on to ask how many of them thought their husbands would have difficulties providing financially for the family if the shoe were on the other foot (the wives who became disabled, died, or abandoned their families). Most women raised her hands.
> 
> The point of the questions was to show that even in today's world of equal rights, women are still not as financially independent as their male counterparts.


Maybe I'm not understanding this, but from what you have said here, most women think that they would have difficulty providing if they were to lose their husbands, and their husbands would have difficulty if they were to lose them (the wives). Where is the big disparity?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

technovelist said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding this, but from what you have said here, most women think that they would have difficulty providing if they were to lose their husbands, and their husbands would have difficulty if they were to lose them (the wives). Where is the big disparity?


The ladies basically admitted, by a show of hands, that few felt they'd be able to financially support their families in the short-term in the case of a disabling disease to their husband, sudden death of their husband, or abandonment by their husband. The same ladies were asked if they thought that their husbands would have the same trouble if they were the ones to die, become permanently disabled, or if they were the ones to abandon the family. Most said no.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Lila said:


> The ladies basically admitted, by a show of hands, that few felt they'd be able to financially support their families in the short-term in the case of a disabling disease to their husband, sudden death of their husband, or abandonment by their husband. The same ladies were asked if they thought that their husbands would have the same trouble if they were the ones to die, become permanently disabled, or if they were the ones to abandon the family. Most said no.


What you said originally was this (my emphasis):

"The financial planner then went on to ask how many of them thought *their husbands would have difficulties providing financially *for the family if the shoe were on the other foot (the wives who became disabled, died, or abandoned their families). *Most women raised her hands. *"

So most of the women thought that their husbands *would *have trouble in that case. That's why I was confused.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> That's why I found the responses so strange. Statistics show one thing but what I'm wondering is if the reality is as different I observed at the luncheon. The majority of the women in attendance were members of the Women's Professional Group that hosted the luncheon. These are white collar professionals with good careers. Are these women doing a poor job of investing their hard earned money? Are they blowing it all on frills? Are they sugar mommas supporting a stud? Don't know.
> 
> My response was that I could support my family but maybe I'm an outlier? Apparently not based on the responses received so far.


My wife and I are both professionals, it takes both incomes to run our lifestyle. After 20 years together I've now reached the point that if I was hit by a bus tomorrow she would realistically have a choice - maintain the current lifestyle with my fairly substantial retirement assets or adjust her lifestyle and save it for an eventual very comfortable retirement. Her choice. This is only fairly recent though, it takes time to build assets.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If something happened to me (e.g., death or disability), my wife would be fine financially, even though she is currently out of work due to an injury. It's not known if she'll be able to return to work, or what she'll be able to do if she does. The greatest unknown would be health insurance, given the still sorry state of coverage in this country compared to almost all other western countries. We have life insurance, work and private disability insurance, a year of liquid emergency savings, and substantial savings in retirement funds. We have planned extensively and carefully for the contingencies we can anticipate.

If we split up, though, it's not so clear that she'd be okay, especially given her health. However, since that isn't remotely likely, it's not a real concern. And she may get a substantial settlement for her work injury, which would resolve even this remote concern. She also holds citizenship in a country with inexpensive and universal health coverage, so that is an option if needed.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

technovelist said:


> What you said originally was this (my emphasis):
> 
> "The financial planner then went on to ask how many of them thought *their husbands would have difficulties providing financially *for the family if the shoe were on the other foot (the wives who became disabled, died, or abandoned their families). *Most women raised her hands. *"
> 
> So most of the women thought that their husbands *would *have trouble in that case. That's why I was confused.


Yikes. Let me see if I can fix that in the OP.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

anonmd said:


> My wife and I are both professionals, it takes both incomes to run our lifestyle. After 20 years together I've now reached the point that if I was hit by a bus tomorrow she would realistically have a choice - maintain the current lifestyle with my fairly substantial retirement assets or adjust her lifestyle and save it for an eventual very comfortable retirement. Her choice. This is only fairly recent though, it takes time to build assets.


Would the situation look the same if the situation were reversed? If she were the one 'hit by a bus'?


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## optimalprimus (Feb 4, 2015)

Lila said:


> That's why I found the responses so strange. Statistics show one thing but what I'm wondering is if the reality is as different I observed at the luncheon. The majority of the women in attendance were members of the Women's Professional Group that hosted the luncheon. These are white collar professionals with good careers. Are these women doing a poor job of investing their hard earned money? Are they blowing it all on frills? Are they sugar mommas supporting a stud? Don't know.
> 
> My response was that I could support my family but maybe I'm an outlier? Apparently not based on the responses received so far.


Or....they married an even higher earner and have a high standard of living to maintain. I know thats a can of worms in its own but a possibility for sure.

I know its the ladies lounge but i thought it was a really interesting question. My parents switched earning roles part way through my childhood, as my mom went up her career ladder and my dad's industry collapsed. 

But the important thing at all points was that they planned to take care of the family, in the same way a lot of other people in this thread have described.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> If something happened to me (e.g., death or disability), my wife would be fine financially, even though she is currently out of work due to an injury. It's not known if she'll be able to return to work, or what she'll be able to do if she does. The greatest unknown would be health insurance, given the still sorry state of coverage in this country compared to almost all other western countries. We have life insurance, work and private disability insurance, a year of liquid emergency savings, and substantial savings in retirement funds. We have planned extensively and carefully for the contingencies we can anticipate.
> 
> If we split up, though, it's not so clear that she'd be okay, especially given her health. However, since that isn't remotely likely, it's not a real concern. And she may get a substantial settlement for her work injury, which would resolve even this remote concern. She also holds citizenship in a country with inexpensive and universal health coverage, so that is an option if needed.


The speaker spent a lot of time discussing health costs, and the devastating effects it could have on finances. She explained that financially speaking, it was worst of the three scenarios she presented.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Another big risk that is relatively easy to guard against is one spouse having no idea what the assets are or how to go about using them for living expenses in the event of something happening to the other spouse.
The solution here is for the knowledgeable spouse to write a letter to the other spouse detailing all the assets, income streams, debts, etc., and keep it up to date when there is a significant change, or at least check it once a year.
I don't know why everyone doesn't do this, but apparently it isn't a very common thing to do.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Lila said:


> The speaker spent a lot of time discussing health costs, and the devastating effects it could have on finances. She explained that financially speaking, it was worst of the three scenarios she presented.


Yes, especially for end-of-life expenses, which are not terribly uncommon and can eat up savings very rapidly.

However, some life insurance companies, such as Prudential, are now adding a no-cost rider to a number of their policies that will pay out a significant portion of the face amount of the policy before death in some cases, e.g., if the insured person is terminally ill or in a nursing home with no prospect of leaving while alive. That is a good incentive to buy from such a company.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I've always considered being financially independent as an absolute necessity in my duty as a mother. In my opinion, its fine for any woman to put herself into a position of financial dependence on a man...its her funeral when he leaves her, dies, or otherwise financially abandons her - but it is reprehensible when they force that on their own children.

And the reality of that happening isn't a small statistic.

I think a lot of women stick their head in the sand because its a lot easier to be an irresponsible dependent and in doing so, they too often doom themselves, and the children they're supposed to protect, to poverty.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> I think it's somewhat of a scare tactic plan. If the couple has a joint account, he can't just cut her out of the account without her signature. My husband and I had 2 joint accounts and when we decided to take my name off one of them for a few reasons, I had to sign papers in order for the bank to take me off the account. If I did not sign it, I would have access to that account no matter what my husband tried. He also can't empty the account without me signing off. The bank would call me first before allowing him. So, with that, I see the whole "oh no, husband won't help you financially" as a scare tactic that doesn't work so well.


It is true that usually one person cannot remove the other from a joint account because the funds belong to both parties.

What are the provisions on your joint account that do not allow him (or you) to take all the money out. Unless you have a two signature requirement on all transactions, either party can withdraw/spend every penny in jointly held checking and savings accounts.

What is the limit that either of you can withdraw/spend? How is that imposed?

Perhaps you could share this so that people can learn and better protect their joint finances.



Anonymous07 said:


> I followed a similar path to what my mom chose in life and I am happy with it. I went to college and earned my degree. I had good work experience and then became a SAHM. I have savings put away and I keep up with changing information in my field. If something happened to my husband, I have a good amount of money that can hold us over until I find a full time job to support myself and our son. I'm really not worried about it and I can't think of any woman I know who blindly went into marriage just depending on a man financially without some thought process for the future. Maybe this was an issue for a different era, but I don't know of anyone in my age range who would do that.


You have been smart in the way you have handled your finances. Sadly a lot of women do not do this. I personally know a lot of women who have not. I think those are the woman that the Lila was talking about.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sydalg said:


> Statistic shows we are not that far behind to be able to provide for our families and many men do. Maybe the mayority of the ladies who have time for those type of events are in the same boat of not being equally able to provide for their families in the event that life changes drastically. My personal case and if not 50% maybe more of our friends have it just like we do. I have been the main provider for my family since I 1st meet my husband. For the last 4 years of something were to happen like he loosing his job or not able to work we will still be ok with my income alone. If it was the other way around the we would have to adjust and even move to a smaller place to be ok. In the event I die my husband and kids will have the house paid, insurance money and a pretty descent 401k money. If it was the other way around then I will only have the same amount of insurance but nothing else. My point I came to the relationship financially eatable and not in the need of a man for his income. If we were to be divorce I be better off even if he can't afford child support. Not that he won't do it but just an example of how well establish I was and will be. When we got married and even from time to time talking to friends I heard comments from woman's asking how is that We don't have separate bank accounts or I am not stashing money away for a "just in case. I am shock how often this comes up. I am Puerto Rican raise by a single mom who thought her 3 girls not depend on any man. He is a Southern gentleman who was also raise mostly by his mom after his dad passed away. We have friends where the woman is the one making the most money, the stay at home moms married to men's in different parts of US Forces that choose to stay home period but they have been on and off different types of jobs. I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, according to the ladies in your brunch that may be the case but the reasons behind are totally different. Is no longer because we don't have equal opportunities but because the ladies are choosing this roll. In my personal case I am very proud that I don't owe my financial situation to NO Man.


Depending on where a couple lives...

In the event of divorce, if your husband earns less than you, there could be a good chance that you would be paying him child support even if your children are with you most of the time. And depending on the length of your marriage, you could end up having to pay him alimony.

Women who make more than their husbands need to take this into consideration as well.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Hmmm... Right now my wife is a SAHM (the last 3+ years). Before that she actually made good money but my salary is considerably higher than hers, to the point where it made no sense for her to work. If I were to kick it, life insurance would pay off whatever remains on the mortgage, and the excess along with savings should cover her/kids for a while. Fortunately as well, with her career it is something she could get back in to very easily (although not ideal for her it is a good fallback). In general though, I am very focused on putting money aside frequently (max out 401k, max out 529 college savings plans, separate savings invested, etc...). I plan on being around for a long time, I need to make sure my family is taken care of and of course as my wife and I get old together hopefully we can enjoy life a little more.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lila said:


> The ladies basically admitted, by a show of hands, that few felt they'd be able to financially support their families in the short-term in the case of a disabling disease to their husband, sudden death of their husband, or abandonment by their husband. The same ladies were asked if they thought that their husbands would have the same trouble if they were the ones to die, become permanently disabled, or if they were the ones to abandon the family. Most said no.


About 30% of women are SAHM/W's.
About 70% work.
Of the 70% who work, about 40% earn as much or more than their husbands.
The other 60% of those who work, earn less than their husbands.

So... most women have less earning power than their husbands. It makes sense that most women would feel that they could not support their family at the same level as now if their husband's income was no longer available. I don't think that's any big mystery.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Another big risk that is relatively easy to guard against is one spouse having no idea what the assets are or how to go about using them for living expenses in the event of something happening to the other spouse.
> The solution here is for the knowledgeable spouse to write a letter to the other spouse detailing all the assets, income streams, debts, etc., and keep it up to date when there is a significant change, or at least check it once a year.
> I don't know why everyone doesn't do this, but apparently it isn't a very common thing to do.


This is actually something I need to do, set up a living trust or a will and detail everything out. Right now the only asset my wife probably doesn't know about, about 3-4 months ago I started making bi weekly deposits into an etf basket. We were blowing through a bit too much money on house repairs / upgrades, so my reaction was "We can't spend what we don't have" and started pushing more money into savings lol.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

My ex was terrible with finances so I'm very particular about mine. I'm stretched a bit thin at the moment but I'm resourceful. 

However, I'm replying mostly because of your health expense comment. That is the very same reason I have a high-deductible plan - my maximum OOP is $6K. I can take a 500/month hit and squeak by with some major adjustments but at least it won't bankrupt me and I can get the care (or my daughter) that I need.

My father spent nearly a month in ICU with encephalitis. My parents were smart to have the supplemental policy they did. Her maximum OOP was similar. The bill was over a quarter million dollars and she paid around 5K. This is why spreading risk is so important.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> Would the situation look the same if the situation were reversed? If she were the one 'hit by a bus'?


Pretty much. 

I would have choices to make as well, but they are different choices. The income ratio is around 60/40 with her being the 40. I pay almost all the fixed costs of the house, mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc. She pays for food, her car and the private school tuition. Her retirement is a pension rather than a pile of assets so that makes it different. I guess my choice would be to downsize and continue the education plan for the kids or not.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Lila said:


> Last Friday, I attended a public financial planning luncheon hosted by a women's professional group. Women from all walks of life and background were in attendance - SAHM, white collar professionals, entrepreneurs, single moms....you name it, they were there. I would estimate there were about 100 women in attendance.
> 
> The female financial planner opened up her presentation by asking the married women to raise their hands if they'd be able to provide financially for their families in the short-term, in the event of a catastrophic life changing event like the death, debilitating disease, or abandonment of their spouse. Maybe a handful of women raised their hands, and that was only after a slight pause. The financial planner then went on to ask how many of them thought their husbands would have no difficulties providing financially for the family if the shoe were on the other foot (the wives who became disabled, died, or abandoned their families). Most women raised her hands.
> 
> ...



This is the type of luncheon I would attend.

From day one, Mrs.CuddleBug and I only dating, we were both working. She was rooming with her girlfriends and finishing her degree and I was staying at home paying rent and working full time, and helping my parents around the house.

Then we got serious, I proposed on the beach at midnight and the rest shall we say is history.

I do all our finances but Mrs.CuddleBug is my equal and knows everything I do and has access to all usernames, passwords and bank accounts, 24 / 7.

I set up our finances this way.

- Mrs.CuddleBug has her original bank account (joint spousal)
- I have my original bank account (joint spousal)
- She has her credit card (joint spousal)
- I have my credit card (joint spousal)
- I have a line of credit (joint spousal)
- I have BCAA Premier (for the both of us)
- We have our own cars
- We have our own cell phones
- We have our own computers

Our incomes have changed a lot since we married 16+ years ago. Back then, I was making the big money and she was making the min. wage + tips. Today, she is making the big money and I am starting all over due to layoff, main industry has left our city and because of the on going oil crash.

I always pay our monthly bills early and its based on our income levels at the time. So Mrs.CuddleBug pays more today because she now makes the big money while I start over. Back in the day, I paid for almost everything while she paid very little. I bought everything we needed, every week, for when we moved into our apartment.

I am very modern when it comes to finances and working. Mrs.CuddleBug and I both knew our city is a two income town, so we both decided to work and only have kids if we could realistically afford to do so. You almost need 3 incomes to buy a new house in our city its that bad, so many just rent.

So if I lose my job due to layoff, Mrs.CuddleBug is working. If she loses her job, I was working.

I make sure our debts are always $0 with only the mortgage left.

It works for us.


To be single and buy a place on your own or rent, is very challenging. In our city, rent ranges from $1400 to $3000+ month. $1400 for 1000 sqft maybe bigger further out of the city. For renting a nice bigger place, then $2000+ rent is common.

To buy a new house here in the city is $500,000 minimum. A nice new bigger house on the outskirts of the city, about $500,000 to $600,000 range.

Most jobs here are min. wage to $20 / hour range.

Seasonal, part time, on call, no guaranteed hours, and full time.

So 3 incomes for owning your own house is common here.

If you want to buy a condo or townhouse, expect to pay $250,000 to $400,000 ish.


If you would of lived here about 15+ years ago, making good money and buying your own place was possible. Today, not possible at all. You room with friends or have a bf or gf with two incomes or two incomes with a third as a renter to buy a house.


Even if you finished a degree, today, you would be renting in our city and probably never buy a place.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Considering we are not well to do people... I am living better than I was raised pretty much...bigger house, own a lot of land.. more kids.. we pay every bill in full.. we have done very well for ourselves, considering...

We pretty much sacrificed & saved with a maddening tenacity in our early years so we could become debt free as quickly as possible...with my only working menial jobs on the side -while husband was the primary bread winner ...

We've been debt free since before we had our last son .. we have enough saved to live a year with 0 income coming in, Life Insurance that would give another 3 plus years....I would get his pension after a certain age -if he dies... plus we have a 401K ... 

Would I expect "as good of a lifestyle as what I am used to" if something happened to my husband.... No, I wouldn't.. I would expect to downgrade and this would be fine... The only thing I'd personally worry about is *affording health care* -if this was lost...a health care crisis.. Medical bills can escalate to thousands in days.. with no end in sight... Affordable Insurance a MUST. . 

My husband stayed at a lousy job for many years due to a Great health care plan.. 

I know if something happened to him, I can get full time work -where a good friend of mine hires with excellent health care, it doesn't require a degree....it's not necessary the kind of work I would enjoy so much... but you do what you need to do to get by... I'd step to the plate & then some.. if need be... 

But for now & really the past 25 yrs raising 6 kids...life has ran smoothly with my being home .. taking the lessor seat in providing financially... my husband never liked when I worked as much as him..

We didn't want to pay babysitters.. he would complain I was never home.. as it cut a chunk of our "US" time..he'd come home.. I'd be off with a kiss... our belief has always been.. build a torrential downpour savings, a job that has family health insurance, have life insurance, so our world doesn't financially collapse in the event of a sudden death ... get debt free.. and live to ENJOY life & family.. 

I am someone who can not stand to be in debt.. I'd worry something awful, not be able to sleep at night if I couldn't pay a bill.. I'd work my sorry butt off to get out of that sort of thing.. & get on top of it.. Husband is the same way.

I understand women like myself ...degree less (others would deem skill-less) are looked down upon in today's society ..especially by "Amy Glass" type feminists..and a growing segment of men, due to the profound financial losses many have faced in court/ a divorce with SAHM's getting half of what they worked for, even if they cheated (do I think this is OK.. NO!!!... I find it almost criminal to be honest). 

I am very thankful for my husband's attitude -he's never made me feel small or lesser... holding a "power" position above my head.. or anything like this.. he's supported me as a vital contributor to the running of our family...everything has always been Joint with us.. really...I've always handled all the finances...


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

This is a subject that's contributing to my PTSD type panic ever since the first D-Day with my H. 

We've been together all of our adult lives. I was considerably more successful than my husband. We made the choice to move to the USA for my H's work & I became a SAHM. I later discovered that I have a degenerative spine. There isn't a surgical solution which would allow me to return to my previous career or any 'normal' office job. I now have other serious health issues. 

I have dreams of setting-up my own 'arty' career from home but it wouldn't support me & my kids.

It NEVER crossed my mind that my H could just leave. I KNOW that sounds stupid now! I was completely blindsided on New Years Day when I learnt that my H was considering divorce. Blindsided again when I discovered his affair. 

My WHOLE world fell apart. I'm one of 'those' women. I don't know how to change this situation. Mortgage is our only debt. We don't really have any savings due to my H's work situation. If he had left (We are in R) me & my little kids would be borrowing money to get onto a plane back home to live with my parents in their 70's.

I've made so many HUGE life changing descisions based on FAMILY & not ME.

I feel like I've been so naive & stupid! Why on earth did I put my entire welfare & that of our children into my H's hands? Ugh! We are all returning home next year. I'm too vulnerable here in the USA. Ugh!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> About 30% of women are SAHM/W's.
> About 70% work.
> Of the 70% who work, about 40% earn as much or more than their husbands.
> The other 60% of those who work, earn less than their husbands.
> ...


The numbers would indicate the reason for the disparity but my OP is more my questioning 'why'. Why is it that many of these women didn't have a financial worse case scenario plan? That's what really shocked me. I guess this is my version of a PSA open to discussion :smile2:

Anonymous07 made an excellent point that this could be a generational thing and I do agree. Regardless of work status (SAHM or work force) young women today are more 'aware' of the importance of financial independence.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm proud of my financial independence as a single mom, but I can't really take credit for it. I have a great job that fell into my lap 3 years ago and I have a mother who "needs" (for tax reasons) to gift money to me every year, so it hasn't been too difficult for me to start saving for retirement. The small amount of child support I get pays for my car. 

If my "luck" hadn't been so good, financially speaking, I do wonder if the story would be different.....


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

BrokenLady said:


> This is a subject that's contributing to my PTSD type panic ever since the first D-Day with my H.
> 
> We've been together all of our adult lives. *I was considerably more successful than my husband. We made the choice to move to the USA for my H's work & I became a SAHM.* I later discovered that I have a degenerative spine. There isn't a surgical solution which would allow me to return to my previous career or any 'normal' office job. I now have other serious health issues.
> 
> ...


 @BrokenLady, I am so very sorry for your suffering but please don't beat yourself up over it. Mistakes happen. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but you have no choice but to dust yourself off and keep marching on.

If you don't mind sharing, why did you leave your lucrative career to come to the states? 

Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give a woman entering into marriage?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I am sure I would be able to support myself and my children, but it would mean lower standard of living, as my husband is in high paying field. Luckily there is room to go down for us. We have our own business, which is based on him providing professional services. If something happens, I can do the same type of job for someone else. There is also nice life insurance that we would get. I could pay off the house and still have some. or sell the house (which now increased in value) and move to smaller one. 

We are also planning to get life insurance on me too, because if something happens to me, he would be screwed in short term (replacing mother of his kids and manager of his business)


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Funny. That sounds like a workshop I would get roped into. 

The whole idea of NOT being "financially independent" is foreign to me. Mostly because I have never had a choice. 

I am guessing that I am younger than most on this thread. I am 31. The edge of the "millenial" generation. (Cringe...hate that term.)

I also live in a high cost of living area. Same atmosphere that discussed by CB.

We could not survive on one income in this area. Not at this point in our careers. There would be no way. And 75% of my peers are dealing with the same thing. There's no such thing as this option to be a SAHM for the bulk of us, unless you are extremely lucky to have some fantastic circumstances. You pull your boots on and you go to work because otherwise you wouldn't have food or shelter. I don't consider us poor by any means. If we were transplanted to another part of the country I think we may even be in the top 90% of earners there. 

In my peer group (and this is a large expanse of the same generation); the only couples who are able to survive on one income meet one or more of the following criteria: 

- College was paid for either by parents or scholarships, leaving no student loan debt. (Contrast this to my situation where combined my H and I had over 100k of it staring back at us on graduation day.)

- Parents helped get them on their feet in the beginning after college. Getting them a place to stay, providing some type of extra income, providing cars or paying off debts for them. (Not us. Neither parents could afford to do this for us even if they desired to.)

- Spouse is significantly older (15-20 years older) and was more established in career at time of marriage with significant savings built up. (This is not us either.)

I'm sure there are other scenarios but for us these stick out. 

For me - I went to college and got a bachelor's degree. I worked FT while getting it and it took me 6 years of hard work. What I couldn't pay for up front I had to put on loans or credit cards and deal with it later. H did the same thing and has a master's degree financed the same way. 

Then we graduated and were jolted into our career paths right in the 2007-2008 market meltdown. Wages in our fields tanked. We were absolutely lucky to find a job at all and considered ourselves blessed just to be working. But any hope we had of increasing our net worth after getting that degree was flushed down the toilet in that market. 

Then student loans hit. Credit cards needed to be paid. While trying to find a place to live that we could afford and wasn't infested with roaches. 

At the worst possible moment (financially) I found out I was pregnant. And the hits kept coming. We trudged through them. Got pregnant again less than 6 weeks after baby 1 was born. (Now have a set of Irish Twins.) Lost my job while pregnant and was unable to find work for 1 year despite many interviews. Some occurring while I was 7-9 months pregnant. How embarrassing and terrible those were. We went through a spell where we couldn't pay our bills and had collection notices coming. It was bad. More credit card debt accumulated. Playing games to use one credit card to pay another to float between due dates. Stuff you never think will happen to you with that *fancy college degree* you have.

Anyway - not trying to paint a sob story. Here we are several years later and we are both working FT in our respective careers and we both contribute 100% to shared accounts that pay all of the bills and respective debts. It's a massive black hole to dig our way out of and will take us many years to pay off.

I will continue working for as long as I am physically able, because I know no other way and even if my income was not needed (a foreign concept)...what the heck else would I do with myself? 

I got a degree for practicality reasons. I had no "passion" to pursue. I just work hard and keep my head down and move forward. My H on the other hand, knew what he wanted to do for a career from 5 years old and has passion for it. He pursued 9 years of schooling for it and even though his field doesn't pay as well as mine does in the long term, his work excites him and it's one of the qualities that attracted me to him. 

Although we do not have a one income household, we have made a mutual decision that his career is the top priority career and not mine. That is ONLY because he is going after a dream of his whereas I am simply working for a paycheck. I am fine with this arrangement. We earn neck and neck right now. I actually just accepted a new job - today - that's going to technically make me our breadwinner for awhile until he catches up. But I don't see it that way. To me he's still the primary career. He involves himself in the networking and professional societies and is in the middle of his licensing exams. I clock in, work my @ss off, clock out and then leave me the F alone because I am CEO of the household and have another job to report to. (Which I enjoy doing)

Realistically...if either one of us lost our jobs, it would be BAD. Back to the time of scraping to get by. A death or illness is a bit different because we have insurances to lean on. But outright losing a job where we couldn't get a new position quickly would be a terrible situation. And this is after being in the workforce for 10+ years in our fields. 

I take financial workshops with a grain of salt for that reason. They always seem a bit "holier than thou" to me and just make me feel bad about myself, so I largely avoid them. We pay our bills, we keep a roof over our heads and make sure the kids are happy. We are frank with our kids that some things we cannot afford and we try to choose what we spend our money on wisely. We are slowly chipping away at our mountain of debt. What else can we do? 

Even if we lost our jobs and had to live out of the car, I know we'd do what we had to do to survive. That's what keeps me going. 

You have to do what is best for you in that moment sometimes. It can be the choice between a bad option and a worse one sometimes but you do what you have to do. No judgment here. 

I'm also very conscious that these seem to be very first world problems. I'm captivated by the migrant crisis in Europe right now and what's going on in Africa and the middle east. Our worst fears are talking about losing an income. What about losing a life, an entire town to war, fleeing your country in terror. Just things that I let fill my mind while the nice lady in the Armani suit and heels at the podium preaches to me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lila said:


> The numbers would indicate the reason for the disparity but my OP is more my questioning 'why'. Why is it that many of these women didn't have a financial worse case scenario plan? That's what really shocked me. I guess this is my version of a PSA open to discussion :smile2:
> 
> Anonymous07 made an excellent point that this could be a generational thing and I do agree. Regardless of work status (SAHM or work force) young women today are more 'aware' of the importance of financial independence.


I posted those numbers because some were saying that the disparity is not all that much now since so many women work. I wanted to point out that a huge percentage of women are either at home or at lower paid jobs.

And I believe the number of women who plan for possible future financial problems is a lot lower than many might think.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm a SAHM. Our plan is that I will not return to the traditional work force unless something happens that dictates that, like the loss of his job. We have planned for this. I worked up until two years ago when we had our first child. We saved a lot while trying 5 years to conceive. We have maxed 401k since we had jobs that offered the plan. My husband still maxes his out. And my husband is, as our financial planner keeps telling him, "over-insured." He would like to see him put those various insurance premiums into our investment account. But my H wants to have some liquid cash available in case he experiences a catastrophic illness or death. All of our accounts are joint with the exception of an account he insisted I have that includes the profits of one of our house flips. I have a realtor license but only to eliminate the middle man in the house flipping we have done for the past 2 years. I suppose I could put that more to good use if I had to, but I don't really want to.

Neither one of us has a degree, but there are 4 things that have happened that enabled us to build a very firm financial foundation:

1) A very large injury settlement for my husband before we were married. He didn't spend any of it...well very little of it. This was the foundation for our financial plan.
2) Living our lives as if we were in abject poverty for the first 3 years of our marriage so that we could save for a house and me leaving the work force when we had children. At the same time, we both worked 2 jobs and he at one time worked 3.
3) A once in a life time opportunity for him to more than double his salary through a job promotion from within program with his employer
4) Two years of successfully flipping houses

So to answer the question, I would be fine with supporting our 1, soon to be 2, children in case of illness, his job loss, death, or divorce. But I have to give my husband all the credit for having a plan and insisting that we work the plan during our time of financial sacrifice. Actually I would say we are still financially sacrificing because he STILL is very tight on a dollar. He won't be satisfied until we have about 20 years of reserves. LOL! I balance him out pretty well though. No point in sacrificing so much if you can't enjoy some of it along the way.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Lila. Quote - "If you don't mind sharing, why did you leave your lucrative career to come to the states?"

My H always suffered from depression. We got together very young & I truly believed he just got miserable because of his work. He was offered a good job & relocation. I thought the admiration etc. would solve his depression. I believed I could be happy anywhere. Planned to go back to university. Whatever...

I was very wrong! He got depressed with his new job. Money was tighter than expected so when he went back to school to qualify I couldn't. He was given a work visa but once I was here we found that the visa for me didn't allow me to work. It was a mess really but he ended-up with a good career. 


"Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give a woman entering into marriage?"

I'd like to say 'Always keep your independence. Never sacrifice your needs & future for your husbands.' However, I do believe that my children have had many advantages by having a dedicated stay at home parent. 

It drives me crazy when cheating H's feel swindled out of THEIR money with divorce! My H wouldn't have the career or earning potential without my support & sacrifices. The deposit & equity on our house was built from the cash I got selling my apartment that I owned when we met. (I figured as a student buying & renting out the spare room made financial sense. With my career I nearly owned it out-right) 

Life goes on!


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

*If you were to suffer a catastrophic event, as described above, would you be able to support your family financially?*

Yes and it has been so my entire adult life.

*Is individual financial planning/independence something you've given any thought to?*

Yes. I have always believed that we as individuals are primarily responsible for ourselves (and children) financially … not a partner, not relatives, not government. That is why I pursued higher education and also why I waited until I was established in my career and stable financially (no debt, substantial savings) before getting married. I also married someone who shared my financial values; I believe that is important when choosing a life partner.

That is also why I/we have always lived well below our means; to ensure savings for life’s catastrophes and retirement. Over the years, there have been periods of loss of income, business ups and downs, an unexpected child, relatives needing temporary help … all sorts of expensive surprises.

*Do you agree/disagree that this is the 600-lb gorilla that women fail to deal with/talk about/plan for in their marriage? Why, why not?*

I am don't see it is a “woman problem”. Most of the problems I see personally are families that live right at the high edge of their income with no savings. And, families who waste money “trading up” to more expensive housing and vehicles every few years.

I could never be a SAHM inside a marriage without a “back up” plan. For me, that means substantial savings before the child arrives, life insurance, disability insurance, health insurance and finding ways to manage my works hours around the needs of my child.

My husband and I have gone our separate ways after 28 years and while it's tragic emotionally it has not affected either one of us financially in any significant way.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I was more financially 'sorted' at 21 than I am now in my mid 40's - if I were to become single.

I had a mortgage on my own apartment in a good location that increased in value every year. With unemployment & disability insurance. 

Great career with fantastic pension plan. All insurances.

Good savings & investment accounts etc. No debt.

Life just happened. I blindly made choices for 'US', it was all about us. 

I'll be honest, at one point I received a huge pay-off & after reducing our mortgage considerably we took a year off. We were together 24/7 just hanging-out, partying & traveling. We got married at the end of that year & toured Italy as a honeymoon. I wasn't 'that' responsible but I had future contracts & no fears. I was 100% secure in my choice of H because of that year.

My parents made their own company business & always worked together for FAMILY. Family is like a religion for my father. I didn't doubt or regret my choices until I was completely blindsided by my H. I can't even apply for disability in the USA. I would have no choice other than returning home with my kids if my H divorced me! How did I end-up with this reality? How do I change this reality? I can't see an answer but this is all fresh to me at the moment.

We are returning home next summer.


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## optimalprimus (Feb 4, 2015)

I have v good insurance through my work (public sector) so my wife would probably be okay if i croaked. House pretty much paid off and helpful monthly income. I may be worse off if the reverse happenened, as her benefits aren't as good.

We are at a stage of life where outgoings are very high (mortgage is over $3k/ month alone) and liquid assets minimal. Give us 10 years and it should be much more comfortable.....hopefully.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Lila said:


> It could be you're right in that the issues are probably more generational than not. I'm 41 and it seems like my generation is the on the low end of the tipping scale. The younger generation seem to have a better grasp on the situation and I think that has a lot to do with parents raising their daughters to be financially 'aware'.
> 
> My parents drilled it into our heads to never rely on _anyone_ for financial support (I would call my upbringing as financially 'distrustful' than 'aware' but the end result is about the same). However, I can tell you that this wasn't the case with many of the women I grew up with. I was raised in a different culture so maybe that has something to do with it too?


I don't know if it's cultural/where you are from, or more about education level, maybe both. My parents raised me to put away money in case something may happen, so you have that back up. I was raised to budget well and live within your means. If you don't have the money in your account, you just don't buy it. We recently bought a 2013 car cash, which for some reason surprises people that we are not financing it. My husband and I are debt free and we've worked hard to get to where we are. I'm very glad my parents taught me all that and made sure I looked at the big picture, as well as the present. Most of my friends were raised the same way. 

I do live in Southern California though and I can say that many are not raised the same way I was. I look around and watch people blow their hard earned money all the time and then live in debt, making payments. I don't necessarily see it as a woman's problem, so much as it is a human problem. Many around here try to "keep up with the Joneses". It's really sad! People spend way more than they should and have no financial back up. I can look at some of my in-laws or neighbors as an example. My BIL married a lady who has no education, no work experience. My BIL makes more money than my husband, and yet they have basically no money in the bank, have 2 car payments, and live at his wife's parent's place because the have no idea how to budget and "can't afford" to live on their own. If something happened to my BIL, my SIL would not be able to support herself and daughter. They would lose the cars and she would rely on her family to survive. 

I'm in a number of mom groups for the local area I am. I hear women complain almost daily about how expensive it is to live hear(which is true to an extent) and how much they are struggling, but then I look at what they spend their money on and almost want to laugh. They would not be struggling so much if they actually knew how to budget and spent within their means. I just shake my head.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I feel like I've been so naive & stupid! Why on earth did I put my entire welfare & that of our children into my H's hands? Ugh! We are all returning home next year. I'm too vulnerable here in the USA. Ugh!


There really needs to be a mandatory divorce laws awareness class in each state prior to marriage so that both men and women understand the risks and their rights in the event of divorce.

For instance, if you're unable to work at this point, you should be eligible for higher and longer-term alimony. You have a legitimate reason to request it.

But in general, people should have a basic knowledge of the laws regarding asset split, inheritance and disability exemptions, marital home splits, etc....before they tie the knot.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> There really needs to be a mandatory divorce laws awareness class in each state prior to marriage so that both men and women understand the risks and their rights in the event of divorce.


So you want to prevent anyone from getting married? >


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm deeply embarrassed by my situation. Truth is its not as tragic as it sounds, I have my parents, I would get child support & alimony (so long as my H doesn't have another crazy affair & decide to run off to see the world!)

This is a public forum & if someone can learn from my situation it's good.

We make choices in life based on our perception of our reality.

My parents owned a successful buisiness. The plan was, they retire & give the company to my brother (He worked for my Dad) & he paid me & my parents a salary. My brother took his own life & my parents sold everything & moved. 

I believed in MY FAMILY (Me, H & 2 little kids) Every descision was carefully planned for the best for my family. Many answer here that they'd be ok because of different insurances. Many (like us) have invested a lot in the future, are tight on money now but know they will start to reap the rewards in the next few years. 

What happens if the bread winner has an affair, quits their job & runs off to see the world & has no income, no benefits?

What happens if the bread winner looses their job & insurances with it & THEN gets diagnosed with a life altering illness?

My H lost his job last summer just after I'd had emergency surgery. Money got tight, he took a contract job which doesn't have benefits. We chose to only pay the essentials (health insurance) in this emergency situation. I have no life insurance & am now battling cancer. 

In my opinion hope for the best but PLEASE plan for the worst particularly if you're a SAHM. This time last year these things never crossed my mind....


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BrokenLady said:


> I'm deeply embarrassed by my situation. Truth is its not as tragic as it sounds, I have my parents, I would get child support & alimony (so long as my H doesn't have another crazy affair & decide to run off to see the world!)
> 
> This is a public forum & if someone can learn from my situation it's good.
> 
> ...


Yesterday we went to a funeral.. a friend of mine's father died.. the night before I sat beside her cousin ... when we walked in, another cousin was crying hysterically right in the doorway... it seemed out of place -even to be her grandfather, he was 89 yrs old... when we got closer to my friend. her husband whispered to us that that cousin I was sitting beside died an hour earlier.. can you imagine the SHOCK [email protected]#$ .. she was only 49 yrs old... she was just talking about having a cold, her ears were plugging up...

Life can be so UNFAIR.. so tragic in the blink of an eye.. all of us can try to plan for the absolute worse.. yet still.. tragedies befall us.. and blind side us... 

One thing I DON'T have -if it all came crashing down... is extended family.. . My parents would not be there for me... 

DO I want to be THAT sort of parent -if our children fall on hard times... it means the world to me.. I have always felt it was me & my H against the world.. I still do.. but I ever know ...life can be cruel.. he can be taken away in a blink of an eye, a tragic car accident for instance...and leave me crying hysterically , uncontrollably.. for what was ripped from my life, not to mention our children. 

I sympathize with all you are going through right now Broken lady.. 

I can sit here & go on how I have planned.. I have saved, scrimped, Mrs tightwad here...so we can live easily in our later years.. but I also know we're all just human.. and sh** happens everyday .. even if we had all the money in the world.. it would still feel like our foundation was ripped from us.. 

Look at some of the rich who could burn their money, they have so much at their disposal... they still succumb to devastating heartbreak, untimely deaths, betrayal.. 

Thankfully around the world, there are caring people who want to help others UP.. to give them something to hope for.. no matter where someone has been..at someone's house last week... some Program on TV....hearing it in the back ground.. it was about these people who go out in the streets and offer shelter , needed items to Prostitutes, a program where they get them off the streets....what would the world be like without people like this.. 

It is good there are programs that help the struggling, that fall on bad times.. unemployment, disability..... but we all need to find our humanity when around others.. remember how blessed we have been (that we are healthy, that we have a job able to support our family) .... to reach out .. help those who are down, whose circumstances didn't go as smoothly as ours...

I'm BIG on preventing these things from happening.. MY temperament is a planner -it's inborn in me.. I focus MORE on this..(pound these things into our children even.. KNOW someone's history, character of those you get entangled with.. as to lower your risk of heartache down the road, save your $$, don't try to keep up with the Jones so you'll be financially strapped someday)... 

Yet none of this is a guarentee either... don't beat yourself up to hard here...People can change, our health is never assured.. we live next to this woman who works out , drinks Green healthy concoctions, even makes her 8 yr old drink them.... I look at her & think she'll live to be 100.. but ya know.. she could just as easily be hit by a drunk driver tomorrow as any of us could.. and everything changes. her family world changes.. Life can be so cruel ...

This is where we need faith for a better day.. to surround ourselves by those who support us. I hope you find your way..


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