# Going on a cruise....orrrrr not???



## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Background....my wife and I've been married for going on 16 years, we have 2 kids, 12 and 9 y.o.'s. Like anybody, we've had ups and downs. We separated once around 8 years ago, was separated for over a year, but we didn't want our kids growing up in split family, so, made it work. For the longest time, things were really good, and, for the most part, still are.

A couple weeks ago my son tells me that "mom's going on a cruise, but he wasn't suppose to tell me". I didn't say anything to her and thought I'd wait to see how long it took her to tell me. Two evenings ago, she lets it out. She's wanting to go on a 7 day cruise with her sister and sister-in-law (all nurses) where they get continuing ed credits for 2 days worth of classes and then vacation the rest of the time. 

I'm immediately pissed for multiple reasons. I feel as though she hasn't been truthful at all. She held out and didn't come to me in the beginning and tell me she was thinking about doing this. She told me the trip was "only $800", but the more I've looked into it, the CE's are $800, the cruise is a separate cost, there's airfare to get there, there's eats and drinks which won't be cheap. She's looking at probably $2K to do this and is putting it up to me that it's "only $800". It's not like the $2K is going to break the bank, but I feel as though WE ALL could use that money to something together. Actually haven't talked to her about how much it's going to cost yet, she believes I still think it's going to be $800.

She says her brother and brother in law doesn't mind if their wives go. Their kids are grown and on their own. We have 2 kids still in elementary/middle school. Huge difference. I asked her if they'd have gone when their kids were this age. No answer.

She tells me that I'm always doing things with my friends so she should be able to go. Biggest thing I do is one weekend a year, I do a 4 day camping trip within 45 mins of our house with a group of guys, all but two of which I see that one time of year, and the other two I may see 4 to 5 times a year (not that it matters). How is that the same?

I also have season football tickets and try to go to every game, but have missed 2 or 3 per season over the past 3 or 4 years because of coaching my son's football team. I have 2 tickets and take my son when he wants to go, but he hasn't been to one this year and didn't go to any last year. Otherwise, I always ask her next and she goes to some but probably less than half, and, I take a friend when one of them doesn't go. She threw that in my face, saying that also somehow warranted her being able to go since I go to the games and take friends.

She said she does so much with the kids, almost implying I don't, so she deserved a break and it'd be great to be able to get her CE's while doing it. Told her she shoulda thought about that prior to deciding to have kids.

I'm pretty pissed over this and let it get out of control last night and said some nasty things. I told her I wasn't telling her she could or couldn't go, she needed to make that decision. I told her, though, that if I was as pissed come time she leaves as I am now, that I'd be leaving when she returned. Told her that I hoped she enjoyed her 7 day cruise because it just cost her the rest of her life's marriage. Do I mean that? I'm still pretty upset (it's 3 a.m., can't sleep, sick from nerves, I think), so probably can't rationally answer, but right now, yeah, I mean it. I also said that when she signed the registration that I'd also have a court document for her to sign.

I have several friends and I do hang out with them a bit too often at times, watching football, doing whatever. She, on the other hand, doesn't do a lot with her friends, but when she says she's going to do whatever (out to eat, go visit), "sure, honey, no problem, have fun." is my response.

A year and a half ago, her and her sister and one of her friends went to NOLa for a week. I didn't like it, but didn't say anything, let her go. And now, this. I get she like doing things with her sister, but I feel this is something she needs to be doing with me AND the kids at this point in our lives. She doesn't get it.

After talking last night and she went to bed, it hit me, wonder if they've already made reservations and registered for CE courses. If she has, without getting my okay on everything first, I'm going to be on an entire new level of pissed.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Women, would you even ask your husband something like this given the same situation with 2 school age children? Guys, what would you do?

I did tell her that if the kids were grown, I wouldn't care, but I feel like she's being selfish and robbing us from what could be a great vacation for us all later on when the kids are out of school.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Your kids can cope without mum for 7 days don't use them as an excuse just because you are pissed off. By your reaction to her wanting to go I would guess she did't tell you straight away because she is either afraid of you or knew you would be unreasonable.
You get to do your thing, let her do hers.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wow OP, I'm a bit shocked at your level of anger about this. The kids will be fine.

When my youngest brother was 14, my mum went interstate for a month as part of her University training. Guess what? No one died.

I really don't see what the problem is. It's 5 days of R&R, 2 days of work. You already said you go away for 4 days a year, plus football games. When you think about it, there's not much difference.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It really isn't a lot different than my going to scout camp for a week each year which my wife encourages. That also removes the opportunity for family vacationing. You haven't mentioned the possibility of romantic connections, which do not occur at scout camp. Other than that it is essentially the same as my using up the family resource (available vacation days) for my hobby. If her sisters aren't man haters I'd say you are upset at having this surprise and very little more. At least think it over before throwing around big words like divorce. 
MN


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, identify the main issue first.

It's not kids....or time....or anything else.

It's the fact that your wife decided to spend large amount of money without discussing it with you.

2nd issue (for me) would be, why hasn't she invited you and your kids???

Do you guys have any financial boundaries in place? For example, discuss with SO anything over $100? She can't just go out and spend that kind of money without your consent. This is unacceptable. I would ask her to cancel the trip.

When she brings up "other husbands" stop her right away. Tell her not to compare your situation to other people. Other husbands might be rich.....they might also be piss poor husbands, it's irrelevant. She should be talking to you within the context of YOUR relationship.

It also seems like you might have a deeper concern than the fact that your wife is hiding this stuff from you. Clearly hiding THIS will trigger you to think that she might be hiding more?

Is her sister and sister in law friends of your marriage? Are they single? Married?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> A couple weeks ago my son tells me that "mom's going on a cruise, but he wasn't suppose to tell me".


OP,

Maybe you're approaching this problem the * wrong * way.

So she took a vacation in New Orleans which yo weren't too pleased about. Then she plans another trip , informs your little son who in turn informs you , and she lies about the actual cost of the trip.

My wife also takes travel vacations , sometimes twice a year with her girlfriends, _but she tells me waaaaaay in advance_ and has never lied about how much it costs. In fact , sometimes I'll give her extra spending money.

So here's what you do.

Plan a mancation of your own.

Here are a few options,

Las Vegas , Nevada
Bahia , Brazil,
Cartegena , Colombia
Bangc*ck , Thailand
Odessa , Ukraine

Inform your son, and he'll tell her.

When she confronts you , tell her it's only costing $700. , 
$100. lesser than how much her trip cost.


Maybe then , she'll understand.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Quenton A said:


> Background....my wife and I've been married for going on 16 years, we have 2 kids, 12 and 9 y.o.'s. Like anybody, we've had ups and downs. We separated once around 8 years ago, was separated for over a year, but we didn't want our kids growing up in split family, so, made it work. For the longest time, things were really good, and, for the most part, still are.
> 
> A couple weeks ago my son tells me that "mom's going on a cruise, but he wasn't suppose to tell me". I didn't say anything to her and thought I'd wait to see how long it took her to tell me. Two evenings ago, she lets it out. She's wanting to go on a 7 day cruise with her sister and sister-in-law (all nurses) where they get continuing ed credits for 2 days worth of classes and then vacation the rest of the time.
> 
> ...


Your season tickets are no doubt $2k a year, plus whatever you pay to park, eat, etc. Also, if you deny her this, she will hate you for it for a long time.

You need to cool down and think this through. If the money isn't an issue for you two and she's going in a teacher cruise with female family members... That sounds like exactly like the kind of separate activities that, if you were to support, would bring you closer. 

And it's no wonder she was afraid to tell you - you are really making a mountain out of a mole hill. Is this a normal reaction for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Well OP your wife messed up by planning this even to the point of your son knowing about it, without talking to you first. That's just not good.

But now you have pretty much messed up by talking about DIVORCING because of it. WTH?

Honestly from what you have described you do enough stuff without her that you shouldn't be tripping over her doing this cruise, especially since she is going with married relatives.

Can you just go back and tell her that you are sorry for the way you first reacted and talk to her about you all discussing this type of trip before she starts to plan it. You have been in the marriage this long you might as well work to make it a fun ride.

The kids will be okay. They are old enough for you to look after them while she is gone. If your job requirements are too much you could try to get some help from friends and neighbors.

I hope you decide to try and make this right. It doesn't seem worth a split unless there many other things going on.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

yes she was deceptive.

Yes you probably wish she was going on a cruise with you, rather than the sisters. I am of the full opinions that spouses that take separate vacations are cruising to a divorce.

But, sounds like she just wants some girl's time out with reliable partners. I guess i would let her go and try to be a sport about it.

If it were just some of her colleagues going on the cruise for "education", no frigin way.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

Holland said:


> Your kids can cope without mum for 7 days don't use them as an excuse just because you are pissed off. By your reaction to her wanting to go I would guess she did't tell you straight away because she is either afraid of you or knew you would be unreasonable.
> You get to do your thing, let her do hers.


OP, it sounds like she has three children. Grow up!


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Even thinking divorce was/is total over reaction on my part. 

I know the kids will be okay without her for a week. I get that. And, I’m not using them as an excuse, it’s just that I feel the money she’s wanting to spend on this trip could be money WE ALL use for a vacation.

I think she didn’t tell me because she probably felt I would be unreasonable, but she also knows that I get really unreasonable when she’s not straight with me about things, and I don’t feel she has been.

Her sis and sis-in-law are both really great people and I trust her with or without them. That's not an issue.

I do….do a lot of stuff without her and she’s always been fine with that….well until now, because she’s throwing all of it back in my face. And, maybe she’s right. On the flip side, 98% of the time, I ask her to do whatever with me and more times than not she declines. I guess I’ve seen it different because I’m not going away so far or spending that much…..until she (and the poster above) point out the cost of my tix, which is just shy of $1K…..which, are for US, even though she doesn’t go to more than one or two games a year.

I guess what it really boils down to for me is that she wasn't straight forward with me from the beginning. And, that she is wanting to spend a large amount of $$$ without coming and discussing it with me first.

As for her hiding stuff from me, I don’t think that’s an issue, in general. 

After this morning’s discussion, she was going to cancel. I texted her and told her to hold up, to give me today to think, and to have all the cost information available to discuss and not cover anything up.

Maybe I do need to loosen up and let her go....and be okay with it. 

Thanks for all the posts.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

dormant said:


> OP, it sounds like she has three children. Grow up!


thanks for your mature response.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Wtf?

She didn't not tell you. She told you when she was ready. Maybe she had to build up the courage to tell you based on your reaction. Maybe she understated the costs because your anger makes you a douche.

What if she told you she would divorce you if you went on your next camping trip?

The nine year old knowing first is no big deal. Kids hear all kinds of things when you talk on the phone. My kids used to always tell thier mom what her birthday present was well before the date, hearing me make plans on the phone. Kids do that.

And that's not really a choice you gave her, is it? Telling someone they can do what they want, but giving them only one option, or else, isn't really letting them do what they want. That's passive aggressive.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

alphaomega said:


> Wtf?
> 
> you a douche.


my god, where do some of you come from?


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Sounds like your overreacting a lot. Especially since you admit that you do everything with your friends and she does very little. Threatening to leave her because she went on a cruise is tantamount to you acting like a child throwing a tantrum. Worst thing is that your credibility will shot to hell if you don't leave. I'm curious, are things bad enough that you have been considering leaving lately and this was the last straw? If so, then leave. If not, pull you head out of your ass and apologize to your wife. 

Several years ago my wife did to on a girls cruise with several of her friends and my step mother. She told me about it as soon as she heard about it as we do nothing that cost a lot of money with out both of us agreeing on it. Though I was not crazy about her going on a cruise with out me (we love to cruise), I understood she needed her time and had no problem keeping our daughter occupied for that week. The cost of the cruise, airline tickets, and spending cash was about 2k. It would have upset me greatly if she had planned and put deposits on it without my knowledge. But I know She would have never done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Just saw your morning post. Sounds like you are thinking clearer. 

As far as her hiding costs. Women rarely think it through when it comes to money. When my wife went on her cruise she figured she could find cheap airline tickets, she could not. She figured they were taking a cheap cruise, they were not. And she swore she would not need more than A few hundred dollars for spending money. I sent her with a grand, she came back almost broke. 

Not to point a finger, but it sounds like you and your wife need to work on your marriage big time. You both leading seperate lives and doing very little together is a red flag. Been there, done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> Even thinking divorce was/is total over reaction on my part.
> 
> I know the kids will be okay without her for a week. I get that. And, I’m not using them as an excuse, it’s just that I feel the money she’s wanting to spend on this trip could be money WE ALL use for a vacation.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like she is giving you a taste of your own **** now.....

Did you talk to her prior to getting season tickets? You can't really expect her to not do what you do.

You guys need to sit down and talk about these things....NICELY. It's all about communication.

You should also start dedicating and spending more time with yourselves. Marriage is not a piss match of who gets to do more crap by themselves, it's a partnership of 2 people going up and beyond to be TOGETHER.

Spending time separate should be a sidekick aka"from time to time" and a small percentage of total time spent together.

Go into this discussion as a ally, not as an enemy. Work as a team and be positive/optimistic.

Don't fight each other....that's the opposite of what you want to do.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> I told her, though, that if I was as pissed come time she leaves as I am now, that I'd be leaving when she returned. Told her that I hoped she enjoyed her 7 day cruise because it just cost her the rest of her life's marriage. Do I mean that? I'm still pretty upset (it's 3 a.m., can't sleep, sick from nerves, I think), so probably can't rationally answer, but right now, yeah, I mean it.


You threatened to leave your wife, the mother of your kids, if she goes on a cruise? This from a husband who admits to taking a 4 day trip with friends per year, has season tickets, and hangs out with his friends much more than she does?

For this woman's sake I HOPE you follow through. Please do divorce this woman after her cruise. It might be the best gift you've ever given her.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Looks simple to me. She really wants to go. She's just too afraid to come out and discuss it like adults, because she expects you to squash her on it. Hence her Kabuki dance around the subject, which only pisses you off more, and further validates her feelings that you'll get angry. Why does a grown woman feel she can't just discuss a subject with you? Is it just the spending, or is it more? Whether she goes or not, you two really need to work on that... My two cents.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Even though I don't believe in separate holidays with a committed and loving relationship, in this case I don't think there is anything wrong with her going on the cruise because you both appear to be living separate lives with very little communication around important issues.

Personally, what comes across to me from reading your post is that there are very deep problems within your relationship and you have used this as a reason to be angry at her. 

Not saying it's not justified, you haven't elaborated on your marriage in any detail, so I don't know, but it may very well be so.

But being PA about whatever is bothering you and keeping it inside until something big like this trip comes along, then saying things you probably don't mean in anger is not the right thing to do.


She shouldn't have lied about the financial aspect of it and you should not have said something you didn't mean, such as this:


> Told her that I hoped she enjoyed her 7 day cruise because it just cost her the rest of her life's marriage.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

You remind me of my ex (EX.) I am a happier girl now! 

Taking a serious chill pill and getting down the bottom of your anger issues sounds like a good plan. She needs to develop some boundaries too. She didn't tell you about the trip because she knew how you would react. She has gotten her "reveal" down to a science.....it's all about trying to figure out the best way to tell you something that is likely to produce the least amounts of wrath. Thing is.......she shouldn't be "asking permission" at all. 

If you were approachable, the scenario should have gone down like this: "honey, the girls said there is a cruise coming up that I am thinking about going on. I really would love to. I don't have all the info yet, but I know it will cost somewhere in the $800 range." And then you could have said, "ok baby, once you get the details of when and how much it's going to cost, let me know and we can talk about it." Simple.

But instead she spent weeks, and maybe months stressing about it......worrying about who she talks to and what she says. Thinking about how the best way to bring it up to you......the timing....when.....where.....how she should say it.....should she mention the cost first? Maybe the people that she is going with should be brought up first. Likely she has lost sleep over this. Trying to avoid the reaction that you obviously had. A toddler temper tantrum.

Glad to hear you have calmed down. But you need to know that your marriage problems run much deeper than your wife wanting to have a little something for herself.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, I would highly recommend you not only read above 2 posts, but go by it.

Create healthy environment in which your wife and come to you and talk to you about ANYTHING.

It's important


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

As others have eluded what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're taking trips alone than so should she. Fair is fair


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Personally I would have calmly asked my W to not attempt to hide it next time.(I suspect your wife did as she knew what your reaction would be.) Once we cleared that up I would ask does she need any help with dropping her off at the AP or anything else to facilitate a good time with her sister and SIL. End of conversation. Honestly, if 2K is not breaking the bank then why get upset over that? You purchase season tickets. Certainly costly. Yes, there are two tickets so it looks to be a family purchase. In reality, these tickets are for you. 

As of now you have tainted the trip for her. I would back up and approach you W with a calm attitude. Advise you overreacted. That she just come to you next time instead of hiding it(as she knew how you would react) and offer any help you can in seeing her off on this cruise. From now to Bon Voyage...happy for her that she is going.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> my god, where do some of you come from?


Welcome to TAM lol. But seriously I can understand being upset about her not telling you sooner but it's not that big of a deal. The football tickets may be around a 1000 dollars but you also have to take the parking fees and food which can bring the cost well around the 2000 dollar mark. Is this the first time this type of thing has happened? If not maybe you need to communicate a little more.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> You remind me of my ex (EX.) I am a happier girl now!
> 
> Taking a serious chill pill and getting down the bottom of your anger issues sounds like a good plan. She needs to develop some boundaries too. She didn't tell you about the trip because she knew how you would react. She has gotten her "reveal" down to a science.....it's all about trying to figure out the best way to tell you something that is likely to produce the least amounts of wrath. Thing is.......she shouldn't be "asking permission" at all.
> 
> ...



Print this. Go to a quiet part of the house. Read it until you can recite it. Ask the W to as well. Open communication without the flying off the handle first reaction is healthy. I have been known to fly off the handle as my first reaction. It does no good in the long run. Took me a long time to shut up and listen. Once I did life was much less complicated.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> Maybe I do need to loosen up and let her go....and be okay with it.


Yes sir. Send her off with bells on!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I would go with Caribbean Man's suggestion.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Glad to hear you have calmed down. But you need to know that your marriage problems run much deeper than your wife wanting to have a little something for herself.

Very well said GA Heart. I could not agree more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Sorry.

You go camping once a year. 

You have season FB tickets which you admit costs about 1k AND you don't even go to more than maybe 2-3....that's a serious waste of money.

You admit to going out and doing several other things on your own.

You over reacted BIG TIME. I honestly can see why she didn't come to you immediately. Basically you told her that it's ok for you to spend that amount of money and then waste it - It's ok for you to go away for 4 days camping - and it's not ok for her to do anything alone for a week or spend a large amount on just herself. 

Sounds hypocritical to me. 

Why don't you really want her going? Is it that you have to take full responsibility for the kids for a few days? Is it that you won't get YOUR personal time for 7 days? Is it that you are afraid she will cheat? Is it that you can't control her (meaning where she is or what she is doing) while she is gone?

You threw out the word divorce. If she goes you will leave her. Seriously? Then I suggest you stop going to FB games period - and don't you dare go camping again. That's so unfair it's not even real.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

DoF said:


> Sounds to me like she is giving you a taste of your own **** now.....
> 
> Did you talk to her prior to getting season tickets? You can't really expect her to not do what you do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post. I've had the seasons for going on 7 or 8 years, now. Yes, we talked about it then and we were going to go to games together, the tix were for us. It was right after we got back together from being separated and we were doing everything together.

All that ended over time and, you're right, we rarely do anything together now. We coexist, and it sucks. I'm not happy. I've tried to talk to her about it, even told her it would come to this not long after we got married. I've tried to get her to do things with me but she won't. I guess maybe that's another reason I was so pissed about her going on the cruise without me.

Yeah, we have more problems. I'm at my wits end with it all, which is probably why I threw the "divorce" comment out in the first place, even though I realize it was over reacting.

Our problems are way deeper than this cruise, I realize that, just wish she would. I've tried to talk to her, but as long as I'm there as her security blanket, she seems happy. I'm not.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

BetrayedAgain7 said:


> Even though I don't believe in separate holidays with a committed and loving relationship, in this case I don't think there is anything wrong with her going on the cruise because you both appear to be living separate lives with very little communication around important issues.
> 
> Personally, what comes across to me from reading your post is that there are very deep problems within your relationship and you have used this as a reason to be angry at her.
> 
> ...


this person gets it.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

as for several of the other posts, some of you are spot on, some of you are making crazy assumptions, some of you can't read.

thanks for your responses, nonetheless.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> Thanks for the post. I've had the seasons for going on 7 or 8 years, now. Yes, we talked about it then and we were going to go to games together, the tix were for us. It was right after we got back together from being separated and we were doing everything together.
> 
> All that ended over time and, you're right, we rarely do anything together now. We coexist, and it sucks. I'm not happy. I've tried to talk to her about it, even told her it would come to this not long after we got married. I've tried to get her to do things with me but she won't. I guess maybe that's another reason I was so pissed about her going on the cruise without me.
> 
> ...


Talk to her about lack of time together. Be firm. Tell her that if she continues to refuse it, your relationship is done.

Heck, tell her that you feel that your relationship is over TODAY as you guys spend 0 time together.

THis has to change

Also, on the communication end, she HAS to start accepting the things you tell her as FACTS and stop dismissing them. To be honest with you, it's kind of sad that you even have to tell her. When someone loves the other person they make it happen BY DEFAULT. Perhaps that's the issue, lack of love.

Start documenting her love IN ACTIONS (not words). What does she do for you that tells you "she loves me".

She needs to make sure that you are as happy as her.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

She probably resents the crap out of him. That's why she is going without him. Honestly, she is probably to the point where she just said "screw it" I'm tired of trying. So far, she's done NOL and this cruise coming up. 

He leaves all of the time with camping once a year and going out with friends and football games. If he wanted them to have time together...should he...I don't know, stay home with her? And not every woman likes football...I do, but it seems to be a rare thing. Are you sure she even likes it? I mean if she never goes, that would tell me that is just something you want to do. You guys need to find something you BOTH want to do.

Look it has to start somewhere. If you are mad about not spending more time with your wife...then YOU have to start spending more time with her. It isn't going to happen over night. You guys have spent so long not doing things together. 

Obviously, sit down and tell her you want more time together and then SHOW her you want more time together. If after a period of time (6 months to a year or whatever) she doesn't respond...tell her it's done. You have to go.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> She probably resents the crap out of him. That's why she is going without him. Honestly, she is probably to the point where she just said "screw it" I'm tired of trying. So far, she's done NOL and this cruise coming up.
> 
> He leaves all of the time with camping once a year and going out with friends and football games. If he wanted them to have time together...should he...I don't know, stay home with her? And not every woman likes football...I do, but it seems to be a rare thing. Are you sure she even likes it? I mean if she never goes, that would tell me that is just something you want to do. You guys need to find something you BOTH want to do.
> 
> ...


dramatize much? you seriously think she "resents the crap out of me"? what are you, 16? or, are you just one of those that know everything before you know anything?

at least the last part of your post actually does make sense.

WTF is it with some in this forum? come looking for a bit of advice and I'm a "douche" and my wife suddenly resents me. if you people can't post something worthwhile, GTFO of my thread. I think I've proven I can take criticism, but damn, calling me petty names and making immature broad assumptions only shows how pathetic _you _are.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

DoF said:


> Talk to her about lack of time together. Be firm. Tell her that if she continues to refuse it, your relationship is done.
> 
> Heck, tell her that you feel that your relationship is over TODAY as you guys spend 0 time together.
> 
> ...


^^^^spot on^^^^ 

thanks.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Quenton A said:


> dramatize much? you seriously think she "resents the crap out of me"? what are you, 16? or, are you just one of those that know everything before you know anything?
> 
> at least the last part of your post actually does make sense.
> 
> WTF is it with some in this forum? come looking for a bit of advice and I'm a "douche" and my wife suddenly resents me. if you people can't post something worthwhile, GTFO of my thread. I think I've proven I can take criticism, but damn, calling me petty names and making immature broad assumptions only shows how pathetic _you _are.


First, I never called you names. You however, have called me immature and asking me if I am 16. 


I'm most certainly not dramatizing. I am stating how she probably feels. I have to say, if this is the way you treat her when she is talking to you, then I can see why she doesn't want to spend time with you. 

I am going off what YOU said. She probably does resent you. If you can't acknowledge that, then you have bigger issues. And no, you can't take criticism if this is how you react to it. You asked for advice. I gave you a possible perspective, you trashed me because you didn't like the fact that she probably is full of resentment.

How is the fact that she is possibly resentful a broad assumption? Given the way you spoke to her about the cruise, I would say it's pretty spot on.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> dramatize much? you seriously think she "resents the crap out of me"? what are you, 16? or, are you just one of those that know everything before you know anything?
> 
> at least the last part of your post actually does make sense.
> 
> WTF is it with some in this forum? come looking for a bit of advice and I'm a "douche" and my wife suddenly resents me. if you people can't post something worthwhile, GTFO of my thread. I think I've proven I can take criticism, but damn, calling me petty names and making immature broad assumptions only shows how pathetic _you _are.


Maybe you should take the emotion and defensiveness out of it and listen to her. You go on trips by yourself so why is it unfair for her. And for the record I am personally not for married couples vacationing seperate but some are. You set that standard. I also agree that if you want the time her make the time. Say no more vacations apart but that goes then for both of you.

You admitted you had an overreaction and I agree you did as well. Throwing out the divorce thing holy crap. If my wife said that to me about taking a trip with my brother when she takes weekends alone herself I would be the one filing. 

Apologize for the outburt and talk to your wife. The old standard was you vacationed alone and you want to set a new standard of let's do these things together. Turn the ship and lead


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> First, I never called you names. You however, have called me immature and asking me if I am 16. Projecting much?
> 
> 
> I'm most certainly not dramatizing. I am stating how she probably feels. I have to say, if this is the way you treat her when she is talking to you, then I can see why she doesn't want to spend time with you.
> ...


someone called me a douche earlier in the thread, didn't mean to imply you called me anything.

you seriously believe she doesn't want to spend time with me and resents me? wow, surprised she actually went to an away game last weekend with me. geesh, if what you say is the case, then I guess I've found my answer....I was spot on in making the divorce comment, afterall. guess i'll go ahead and pursue it.

thanks for the advice.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

damn, think I just figured out why she went to the game with me over the weekend......"go to the game, drop the question on the cruise.....and, oh, on the way, talk him into buying me a new land rover."

I've been played.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Quenton A said:


> damn, think I just figured out why she went to the game with me over the weekend......"go to the game, drop the question on the cruise.....and, oh, on the way, talk him into buying me a new land rover."
> 
> I've been played.


Gotta say, the drama is just beaming off of you. If she is going places with you why are you complaining that she isn't spending time with you?


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Maybe you should take the emotion and defensiveness out of it and listen to her. You go on trips by yourself so why is it unfair for her. And for the record I am personally not for married couples vacationing seperate but some are. You set that standard. I also agree that if you want the time her make the time. Say no more vacations apart but that goes then for both of you.
> 
> You admitted you had an overreaction and I agree you did as well. Throwing out the divorce thing holy crap. If my wife said that to me about taking a trip with my brother when she takes weekends alone herself I would be the one filing.
> 
> Apologize for the outburt and talk to your wife. The old standard was you vacationed alone and you want to set a new standard of let's do these things together. Turn the ship and lead


I guess reading someone indicating she resents me touched a bit of a nerve. we get along for the most part, even if it's more of a co-existing relationship. can't remember the last time we had a serious fight. someone generalizing that she resents me over this issue that just happened seems to me they're making assumptions about what they believe to be the case at all other times, thus the reason for my defensive mode, I guess.

I'm not for us vacationing separate, either, but obviously, she is. I've told her this, but she's still hell bent on going.

I asked her to bring home information on the trip so we could look at it. I'm probably going to tell her to go because I don't want this to damage our marriage as I feel it wouldn't take much damage to totally break it apart.

We need to address other issues, too. I know what they are, she does too. I'm not sure we can fix it but we don't know until we try. It seems her #1 priority is staying together for the kids, although that's probably not it....just seems like it to me at times.

I'm sick from this and I'm not one to get sick much at all....can't remember the last time I even had a common cold. This whole situation has me sick on stomach, headaches, no sleep, etc. I'm an emotional wreck and not someone that gets emotional that easily. I'm in hell.....and having someone tell me my wife resents me doesn't help......even if maybe it is true, but I don't believe it.....maybe I'm in denial.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> Gotta say, the drama is just beaming off of you. If she is going places with you why are you complaining that she isn't spending time with you?


because that was the first time in can't remember how long she actually has. ulterior motive, I can only assume. after all, she resents me.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Quenton A said:


> because that was the first time in can't remember how long she actually has. ulterior motive, I can only assume. after all, she resents me.


You don't think there is the slightest chance she does? Really? 

You take a camping trip every year. 4 days. 

She's implied that you don't do as much for the kids.

You spend 1k-2k on FB tickets. 

You spend time with your friends.

You flip out on her-and this wasn't just a little hiccup-you told her you would divorce her if she went.

She was scared to tell you she wanted to go. Why is that?


Look the signs are there. If you want to address it, awesome. If not, continue on this way and see how it goes. That's all I got. Good Luck.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> I guess reading someone indicating she resents me touched a bit of a nerve. we get along for the most part, even if it's more of a co-existing relationship. can't remember the last time we had a serious fight. someone generalizing that she resents me over this issue that just happened seems to me they're making assumptions about what they believe to be the case at all other times, thus the reason for my defensive mode, I guess.
> 
> I'm not for us vacationing separate, either, but obviously, she is. I've told her this, but she's still hell bent on going.
> 
> ...


I don't understand and honestly I'm really trying to. How do you say you don't like to travel and holiday seperate yet take a yearly trip camping by yourself?

I don't know if your wife resents you or not to be honest. I do find it curious about the fact she hid this trip intentionally from you for a period of time. Have you asked her why she would do that? My only guess would be fear of your reaction.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> You don't think there is the slightest change she does? Really?
> 
> You take a camping trip every year. 4 days.
> 
> ...


okay, i'll be serious with you. I'm starting to appreciate your efforts even if I was quite offended by your first post. my apologies for being facetious.

resent is a pretty strong word. if she truly resents me, then what the hell is the point of even attempting to reconcile this? to me, resent is like hatred. if it's remotely close to that, then there's no point. I guess that's why I'm a bit defensive of you insinuating she resents me......if she's even close to hating me, then there's no point continuing....

guess I need to attempt to find out if that's true. how? I don't want to be with someone that hates me. 

I've admitted and accept the fact that I over reacted, but, no, this isn't the norm. again, I can't remember the last time we've had this huge of a fight. 

and, you seem to be blowing my spending time away out of proportion, it's not like it's all the time. _once_ a year I go the camping trip and she's never once, until now, said she didn't want me to go. in fact, she does something with her mom, sister, sis-in-law, and others that weekend every year. it's like I do my thing, she does hers during that time.

again, the tix to the games was for US, not me. she's the one that's bailed. should I stop just because she doesn't want to go anymore?? I've damn sure thought about it over the past 24 hours.

my spending time with friends? once or twice a week i'll stop at a buddy's house and drink a couple beers and still beat her home to be there when she gets there more times than not.

you make it sound a helluva lost worse than it is....or at least than I feel it is....but maybe that's how it read when I posted above.....and maybe you're right, maybe I should try to spend more time with her. but, when I want to, it's like she doesn't.....so maybe she really does resent me and really is just keeping me around to provide solidarity for the kids.

I know you said you're done, but I'd appreciate a response, and I promise to be more objective and less defensive.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> I don't understand and honestly I'm really trying to. How do you say you don't like to travel and holiday seperate yet take a yearly trip camping by yourself?
> 
> I don't know if your wife resents you or not to be honest. I do find it curious about the fact she hid this trip intentionally from you for a period of time. Have you asked her why she would do that? My only guess would be fear of your reaction.


I guess I just never saw the camping trip as a vacation or an issue since she does something with her mom/sis/sis-in-law that weekend, too. a 4 day camping trip 40 mins from home vs. a 7 day cruise? maybe I'm wrong, just doesn't seem like they're both in the same stratosphere to me, especially when it's not like she's sitting around the house that weekend waiting for me to come home.

she swears she wasn't and didn't mean to be hiding it from me. perhaps everybody's right, it was because she was afraid of my reaction, even though she says she didn't think I'd be upset about her going.

and, I guess that's another reason I was so upset.....it was, "I'm going.....", it wasn't, "do you mind if I go...."


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Quenton, 

Do you know what you both are really missing from the M?

What to address?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> I guess I just never saw the camping trip as a vacation or an issue since she does something with her mom/sis/sis-in-law that weekend, too. a 4 day camping trip 40 mins from home vs. a 7 day cruise? maybe I'm wrong, just doesn't seem like they're both in the same stratosphere to me, especially when it's not like she's sitting around the house that weekend waiting for me to come home.


Where are the kids when you are camping? Home with mom, and needing to be fed and cared for every minute. So maybe she is able to spend time with her mother and sister while you are away, but she isn't "away" in any sort of vacation sense. You, however, are "away." No responsibilities, no kids, fresh air, time with your buddies, good times. 

Do you see how that's different?



> she swears she wasn't and didn't mean to be hiding it from me. perhaps everybody's right, it was because she was afraid of my reaction, even though she says she didn't think I'd be upset about her going.


She may or may not have been hiding it. I don't make instant decisions about trips, and she probably didn't either. She and her family were looking into it and when she decided she wanted to and it seemed do-able, she told you about it. Just because your kid heard about it while she was investigating the trip doesn't mean she was never going to tell you about it, as she in fact did 10 days later when she had more info. And since your reaction caused her to decide to cancel the trip, she obviously hadn't put down any deposits or anything else, so when she brought it up to you, she, in fact, did want to DISCUSS it with you. Your reaction made discussion impossible.



> and, I guess that's another reason I was so upset.....it was, "I'm going.....", it wasn't, "do you mind if I go...."


Was that before or after you blew up about it? And then dug in your heels and threw around the divorce card?

Do you ask her if you can go on your camping trips every year, or do you tell her, "My buddies and I decided on the week of the 14th to go camping."

To you, your camping trips may be different, but to her, it's still you telling her you're going. And she says, "bye, have a good time!"

You also aren't clear on the finances. When my employer sends me for training, they pay for the class and the flights/hotel. Perhaps CE for teachers is similar? I really don't know. If it is, then the cost of the class, at least, would be covered so the whole trip isn't on her. If flights are covered, too, then it's really just the cruise she'd be paying for. This may not be the case, but you didn't really give her much room for DISCUSSION, so you don't actually even know that.

I'm just saying that giving her the benefit of the doubt when she brings up stuff will do you more good than immediately blowing up about it and shutting off communication.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> I guess I just never saw the camping trip as a vacation or an issue since she does something with her mom/sis/sis-in-law that weekend, too. a 4 day camping trip 40 mins from home vs. a 7 day cruise? maybe I'm wrong, just doesn't seem like they're both in the same stratosphere to me, especially when it's not like she's sitting around the house that weekend waiting for me to come home.
> 
> she swears she wasn't and didn't mean to be hiding it from me. perhaps everybody's right, it was because she was afraid of my reaction, even though she says she didn't think I'd be upset about her going.
> 
> and, I guess that's another reason I was so upset.....it was, "I'm going.....", it wasn't, "do you mind if I go...."



Well to be fair I don't think they are in the same league either, however she may. And even if she doesn't it's still a default position to fall in on to say well you do this so I should get this type thing. 

I think you're right that vacations should be taken as a couple. I still think you can make that the new standard in the relationship through communication. Ask the wives to start coming on the camping trip and get the husbands on that cruise!


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

norajane said:


> Where are the kids when you are camping? Home with mom, and needing to be fed and cared for every minute. So maybe she is able to spend time with her mother and sister while you are away, but she isn't "away" in any sort of vacation sense. You, however, are "away." No responsibilities, no kids, fresh air, time with your buddies, good times.
> 
> Do you see how that's different?
> 
> ...


kids are with her. good point, I get it.

she told my son not to tell daddy.

I think that's exactly when I did blow up internally....when she said, "I'm going....". I didn't say anything until later when the kids weren't around. I didn't blow up initially. I told her I wasn't crazy about it and she pretty much said she was going, anyhow. that's when I flipped my lid.

her CE's come out of our pocket. she's a nurse, not a teacher.

and, you're right, I shouldn't have blown up, even when she did act like it didn't matter what I thought, she was going anyhow. I've got too much of my father in me....blow the eff up and ask questions later...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> and, you're right, I shouldn't have blown up, even when she did act like it didn't matter what I thought, she was going anyhow. I've got too much of my father in me....blow the eff up and ask questions later...


I used to be a lot like that, and I got that from my dad, too.

It's a learned behavior, and you can learn to control it. I had to learn it, and it was my SO who taught me that I may consider it blowing off steam and what I say in that state is not what I "really" think once I've calmed down and had time to think, but that's not how other people experience it.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

norajane said:


> I used to be a lot like that, and I got that from my dad, too.
> 
> It's a learned behavior, and you can learn to control it. I had to learn it, and it was my SO who taught me that I may consider it blowing off steam and what I say in that state is not what I "really" think once I've calmed down and had time to think, but that's not how other people experience it.


yeah, I've done really well with it for so long, but when she acted like she didn't care what I said, that she was going, I came unglued and lost it. I'm not proud of it; hell, I'm ashamed. but, it's how I felt exclusive of running my mouth about divorce.

wish me luck this evening, I'm going home and talk to her about this. she's suppose to bring information on the trip. I'm going to apologize for acting how I did and explain the reason I'm so upset is that 1) she acted like what I thought didn't count, and 2) I'm hurt that she's taking repetitive vacations without me and the kids....guess I'm jealous.

in fact, we cut our family vacation extremely short last year because she had spent our vacation money on the trip to New Orleans the December prior. and, it hurts me to know that we're probably going to have to do that again next year because of her going on this cruise.

I'm hurt. I feel as though I was backed into a corner and I came out swinging. right, wrong, or indifferent, I did it. not proud of it, but I did it. and, now, instead of rationalizing how she's hurting me and the kids by using up our vacation money on her trip and we won't be able to do much next summer, I've got to swallow my pride and act like the world is all glitter and rainbows and there'd be nothing better if she'd get to experience a cruise without me and the kids, even if none of us ever have. hey, look on the bright side, she told me she'd get to see if she'd get sea sick or not and it would better prepare her for when we all could go on one later on. yeah, she really told me that....


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> wish me luck this evening, I'm going home and talk to her about this. she's suppose to bring information on the trip. I'm going to apologize for acting how I did and explain the reason I'm so upset is that 1) she acted like what I thought didn't count, and 2) I'm hurt that she's taking repetitive vacations without me and the kids....guess I'm jealous.


I do wish you good luck. Something that might help is how you phrase things...use "I feel" or "I believe" statements rather than "you did this" statements.

Example: 

I believed that what I thought about the trip didn't matter to you.

I'm hurt and upset because we aren't devoting any planning or saving money for a fun trip that we can take without the kids. How about if we start that right away so we can make that happen next year?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> I guess I just never saw the camping trip as a vacation or an issue since she does something with her mom/sis/sis-in-law that weekend, too. a 4 day camping trip 40 mins from home vs. a 7 day cruise? maybe I'm wrong, just doesn't seem like they're both in the same stratosphere to me, especially when it's not like she's sitting around the house that weekend waiting for me to come home. *I'm sure most think if one gets something the other should get the same. In other words, your camping trip costs $100.00 for the 4 days(camping gear cost money but lets not muddle it). The cruise is $800.00 plus plus. Not equal. I do not believe making assessments on costs and other factors should be in play when each are planning on items or trips for themselves. Plan you next trip to the Grand Canyon complete with burro rides. Should cost $800.00 plus plus. You W should not have a issue with that if this logic is applied. *
> 
> she swears she wasn't and didn't mean to be hiding it from me. perhaps everybody's right, it was because she was afraid of my reaction, even though she says she didn't think I'd be upset about her going. *I truly think she thought your reaction would be in the negative. Let's face it, she said it's only $800.00. That is a bait and switch. You are baited with the $800.00 only to get switched after agreeing and finding the actual cost is $2K. That does not sit well with me. If she came to you with all the facts and figure I'm sure a reason conversation would have occurred. You should make her aware of this and ask the she does so the next time. *
> 
> and, I guess that's another reason I was so upset.....it was, "I'm going.....", it wasn't, "do you mind if I go...." She should have worded it differently certainly. *My W sometimes words things that do not represent what she is trying to convey. *


Just apologize for the reaction. Work on communicating it next time. Help her with this trip.

Look for ways to reconnect. I see you are not happy. Your W appears happy with the current situation. She needs to be made aware you are not happy. After the trip both of you need to examine where this marriage is going. Explain to her you want to communicate about after she returns.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> yeah, I've done really well with it for so long, but when she acted like she didn't care what I said, that she was going, I came unglued and lost it. I'm not proud of it; hell, I'm ashamed. but, it's how I felt exclusive of running my mouth about divorce. *Quite possible your W knew your reaction was not going to be great so she simply stated she was going. And that's final(as my mom would say to my dad sometimes)*
> wish me luck this evening, I'm going home and talk to her about this. she's suppose to bring information on the trip. I'm going to apologize for acting how I did and explain the reason I'm so upset is that 1) she acted like what I thought didn't count, and 2) I'm hurt that she's taking repetitive vacations without me and the kids....guess I'm jealous. *Go with hat in hand as they say. I would not say you are jealous. Maybe rejected? I think I would feel rejected or not a fun person to be with. *
> 
> in fact, we cut our family vacation extremely short last year because she had spent our vacation money on the trip to New Orleans the December prior. and, it hurts me to know that we're probably going to have to do that again next year because of her going on this cruise. *Bring this point up when you talk with her tonight. No sense not talking about it. *
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

norajane said:


> I used to be a lot like that, and I got that from my dad, too.
> 
> It's a learned behavior, and you can learn to control it. I had to learn it, and it was my SO who taught me that I may consider it blowing off steam and what I say in that state is not what I "really" think once I've calmed down and had time to think, but that's not how other people experience it.


We are three peas in a pod. My first reaction is going ballistic. Learned it from my dad as well. 

I now count to 10 before I say anything.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> She tells me that I'm always doing things with my friends so she should be able to go. Biggest thing *I do is one weekend a year,* I do a 4 day camping trip within 45 mins of our house with a group of guys, all but two of which I see that one time of year, and the other two I may see 4 to 5 times a year (not that it matters). How is that the same?
> 
> I also have season football tickets and *try to go to every game*, but have missed 2 or 3 per season *over the past 3 or 4 years* because of coaching my son's football team. I have 2 tickets and take my son when he wants to go, but he hasn't been to one this year and didn't go to any last year. Otherwise, I always ask her next and she goes to some but probably less than half, and, *I take a friend* when one of them doesn't go. She threw that in my face, saying that also somehow warranted her being able to go since I go to the games and take friends.
> 
> She said she does so much with the kids, almost implying I don't, so she deserved a break and it'd be great to be able to get her CE's while doing it. Told her she shoulda thought about that prior to deciding to have kids.


First, you have a consistent pattern of ensuring that YOU get to do things YOU enjoy. How many trips has SHE taken without you?

Second, she does deserve a break. Third, the fact that she was afraid to tell you - and the fact that you gave her exactly the bad reaction she feared - negates her waiting; if you had been safe to approach, she would have asked you immediately.

But all you did was reinforce to her that you do NOT consider her an equal partner and that you will punish her for trying to be one. 

Could she have handled it differently? Yes, but given your reaction, and the fact that you have alluded to an even HIGHER level of anger to be given her, I don't blame her one bit. I have a husband with a similar outlook and both I AND our daughter have learned to temper what we tell him just to avoid the negative vitriole. You create a safe environment, you get a spouse who tells you everything; you don't, you get this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> I've admitted and accept the fact that I over reacted, but, no, this isn't the norm. again, I can't remember the last time we've had this huge of a fight.


My husband and I never fight. Never. But he has a consistent pattern of denigrating what I say, talking over me, snapping at me if what I say or do doesn't suit him. Combined, it has created - HE has created - an unsafe environment in which I am NOT his friend and I tell him almost NOTHING about me or my personal life. You don't have to blow up at your wife to teach her not to trust you to be safe.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Quenton,
Good luck, try to keep your foot out of your mouth. 

I'd like to spend some forum space on some side issues. First separate vacations. I understand that you are opposed in principle but in fact are using this method due to necessity. I have a more moderate opinion on this principle. About 7 years ago, I got heavily involved in the Boy scouts. This was just in time to be very involved in my son's life pre- and early teen years. My wife had to give me up for a lot of weekends Tuesday nights and one week every summer. This was a separate vacation. At the same time My wife was being mistreated in her job and denied a "professional training trip" every year. The company was essentially making up excuses why she couldn't go because she would not be "fun". I really thought there would be some sort of resentment. The fact turned out that she didn't want to have that kind of "fun" and was relieved with each restriction. But, more than that, she happily sent me off to camp every year, supported everything I did, because apparently having hobbies makes men more interesting. 

Husbands and wives need separate hobbies and interests. They also need together activities, trips and interests. Both are important. 

Now the money issue. As much as I support her spending time with the sisters they are starting a habit of big expensive trips too often for your budget. That needs to be addressed without knocking back this years opportunity. Every 4 years would be more appropriate for about 8 more years. After that everything changes. It would be a good idea if you had some general goals for the time you have the kids. Then figure your recreational spending to reflect those goals. If you are the only one going to games, perhaps that season ticket money needs to be re-figured. You don't have to have a big vacation every year. people and organizations fall in to the trap that every year has to be bigger and better than last year. Bigger is not always better.

Now this paragraph is going to be painful. I'll apologize in advance for the necessary pain I'm about to inflict. That 4 day camping trip with the guys. I know two kinds of guys who do this. One is the serious sportsman, the other is trying to recapture his youth by seeing how stupid he can get. Now I'm making an unwarranted assumption that you are in the second category because you said camping and not backpacking. If I'm right, your kids are at the age now that you need to give up foolishness and start taking them with you. In case I'm wrong you have a daughter 12 years old and a Son 9. Your daughter will probably stay interested in camping and outdoor skills for 3 years. at that point she will either discover boys and spend all her time trying to attract them by shopping for clothes and make up. Or if you did your job right, she will meet them on equal grounds and know things that they are interested in. Your son is at that stage where his mind is open ready for his first pocket knife and able to learn how to use it safely. Your kids need you now. Camping is very likely the best way for you to reach your son. The daughter well that is an open question. A lot of girls will camp voluntarily at 12 but not at 16. 

MN


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> WTF is it with some in this forum?


The question is actually "WTF is wrong with you"?

Do you realize that if you had started this thread off with THIS post:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...3-going-cruise-orrrrr-not-3.html#post10412602

You'd have received a massively different response?

As it stands you are the one who opened up a thread that painted you as an angry, selfish, ********* who threatened to divorce his wife over a simple little cruise.

That was your mistake. Don't bash the entire forum because they assessed the situation based off a post that painted you as a raging, damn near emotionally abusive walkaway husband.

Take some responsibility for how you painted yourself.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, for now, deal with the immediate problem. Leave the rest until your wife returns. 

Yes, in an ideal world she would have discussed it with you first, but your reaction makes it clear why she didn't. But I won't belabour that point, many others have pointed it out to you and you get it.

Don't ruin this for her. Let her have this, send her off with your full, unequivocal support. When she returns the TWO of you can discuss a new way of doing things, but for now let it go.

When you talk to her, take the blame 100% for how this went down. She will carry the hurt and memory of your reaction to this for the rest of your marriage...do all you can to make it right for her now. If that means taking all the blame, man up and do it. 

Say to her "Honey, I've been a total jack arse, I'm so sorry for the way I reacted and the terrible things I said to you. You deserve this trip, what can I do to help you prepare for it".

Just like that.

You're not a douche or bad guy OP, you just stuffed up a bit that's all (so did your wife, but the reasons for that have been explained). Now go make it right.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah,

I called you a douch. My apologies. It was meant to say "makes you seem like a douce"


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Stupid iPhone. Can't even type douche right on this little screen.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Look, it's not such a big deal as some of you are making. She's going on a cruise. WITH HER SISTERS. Not with male friend or something. So what? Doesn't a wife and a mother deserve a few days for herself? Doesn't she put her family first, in the rest of the time? She deserves it, any person does, and you should encourage her to go relax a little, instead of getting so mad at her.

Yes she was wrong not to consult you about the money. Financial decisions - her stuff AND yours - should be discussed ahead, in advance. Make that a point- but calmly ! 

Married people need to spend enough time together. But that doesn't mean they now have to become Siamese twins. It would suffocate me to live like this, and take this from someone very in love with her spouse. But a few days of ME time, with just female company, will do both very good. She'll come back happier, unstressed, excited about the good time she had. And realizing she has missed you ! Is that such a bad thing? 

I don't know the dynamic of your marriage, but if my spouse went away with brothers, especially work related, I would be cheering for him. You need to loosen up a little, OP. 
And don't get so easily offended. You don't seem like a douche. Just a little too possessive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> I guess I just never saw the camping trip as a vacation or an issue since


I'm sure your camping never HAS been an issue with her and she's probably been thrilled that you get to do something you truly enjoy, since she loves you and wants you to be happy. But now, now that you try to guilt her out of something that means a lot to HER, you can bet she's going to look at your annual trips a little differently. And what does distance away from home have to do with it? 



Quenton A said:


> and, I guess that's another reason I was so upset.....it was, "I'm going.....", it wasn't, "do you mind if I go...."


Do you ask her for permission every time you go hang out with your buddies. No, you probably assume you're equals so you don't have to be submissive and ask permission. Right? So why does _she_ need to ask permission? I get that it's a lot of money but I doubt you guys are hurting or else she wouldn't have considered spending the money. Just trying to keep you honest with yourself here...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> I've got too much of my father in me....blow the eff up and ask questions later...


This is a thing that men often don't see, without help. I like to equate it to a bucket of water. When you first get married, you each have a bucket full of 'water' for each other - all those endless possibilities of good will for each other; after all, you've said vows and intend to be there for each other for the rest of your life, right?

But here's a thing about women - we need to feel safe. It's our cavewoman DNA; no getting around it. Safety is HUGE for us. And quess what the #1 thing in a modern relationship removes safety for us? An angry husband. Because we've put all our eggs in one basket (literally), we depend on him to protect us, understand us, make us feel safe. So imagine what it feels like, six months into your marriage, your new life together, and your husband blows up at you for something like locking the keys in the car. What just happened? He's supposed to protect me and suddenly I have to protect myself from HIM! 

So she takes a mental 'cup of water' out of that bucket of endless possibilities. He's my protector, BUT...maybe just a little tiny bit not quite as much a protector as I thought. He's probably just under some stress. After all, he apologized the next day, right?

So a year later, when she accidentally overflows that sink and he has to run in and stop the water and he's stomping around raging "How stupid can you BE?" - well, maybe HE really wasn't mad at her, but it sure feels like it to HER. SHE's the one he's calling stupid. So she mentally withdraws another cup of water. Ok, note to self, H may have a temper, be a little more careful around him.

The years go on, he's had another 10 or 12 blowups. Now she knows he has a temper, now she knows he has no problem aiming it DIRECTLY at her, he really doesn't seem all that protective at all, does he? I mean, sure, he's great most of the time, he's a great father, great sex...just have to be careful around him. By now, when he apologizes afterward, she thinks 'yeah, SURE, go ahead and apologize, you jerk. It doesn't mean SH*T to me because you never change; you never stop blaming me, you never care about MY feelings, all you care about is that YOU need to blow off your steam and as long as you apologize, I should just not let it bother me, right? By now that bucket is probably only half full now. By now, she's started finding ways NOT to tell you about things, to avoid your anger, your blowup, your fake apology, your total lack of protection. By now, she's telling the kids not to admit they broke the lamp, so they don't get the anger too. By now, she's telling the kids not to tell you what she's doing that she knows you'll blow up about. By now, she's 'managing' you to avoid pain on herself. You're no longer her protector. That bucket is a JOKE. 

It didn't start out that way. She kept giving you chances to see she was hurt and change. But you didn't. You just say "I'm too much like my father" as if that makes up for hurting your wife and making her have to lie to you or hide things from you so as to avoid the pain you cause.

And here you are.

And here's the rub, Quentin. Eventually, that bucket will become completely empty. She won't tell you. She'll just wonder why she ever even cared about you. And she'll plan her escape. And blindside you one day with divorce papers. If you're lucky. Cos if you're not lucky, if she tries to stay, she's ripe for the picking by some lowlife scum who picks up on her unhappiness and starts paying attention to her and commiserating with her about her empty marriage and is the only one who gets her and guides her into an affair. 

I'm not saying this is all going to happen to you. But it could. We've seen it a thousand times before, and it sounds like you're right about in the middle, could go 50/50. I hope you can hear me without getting defensive, and take a good look at things. That is all.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Some people put water back into the bucket. 

I don't want to say that abusive actions don't take their toll. I don't want to say that your read on Quentin's situation is wrong. I'm just saying that there is a way back, sometimes. I also know some people who never allow any water back in the bucket. 

I do hope that Quentin is so busy tonight that he isn't replying, because he is putting water back in the bucket and not because he is being beaten with an empty bucket.

MN


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## shakazulu2420 (Sep 16, 2014)

If shes with gals its okay. You do stuff too with the \boys.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think everyone has pretty much covered everything already, but I just wanted to say that in my own marriage, I would've talked with my husband about the plans sooner, but he wouldn't have blown his lid about them even if I did it the way she did.

I see your vacations in the same light as hers. You don't have to sit at home twiddling your thumbs while she's gone either. You also have the choice to use the week to do stuff, visit people, just like she did while you were away.

You're right, you both need to do stuff together and if she's not working with you on that, maybe it's because there's nothing that she can think of that she wants to do with you. For example, do you have similar interests? If you both loved bowling/tennis/games/dancing etc, you could easily find something, but is there actually anything you both love doing? Do you have anything in common in regards to activities?


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## shakazulu2420 (Sep 16, 2014)

Her moms there. Nothing bad is going to happen. Ifg this was a man she was going with, it would be a problem.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

nobody's pointed out anything within the past several posts that I don't have an understanding of, specifically regarding my temper. I've successfully dealt with that over the past 8 to 10 years, and I had a total slip up this week. I acknowledge that. I wish people wouldn't make assumptions and give advice based on what they think the situation to be, that being me going off the handle all the time....doesn't happen. I effed up, I get it. I know it. I own it. 

That said, I had asked her to bring home literature about the trip yesterday, and she didn't. Pissed me completely off because I felt like she was still trying to hide things about the trip. BUT, I internalized, took a deep breath, and didn't say anything at all about it.

What I did do was tell her I wanted to talk to her about everything. Very calmly.....I started out by apologizing for the way I acted and the things I said, that I was really hurt because she told me she was going versus asking me if I minded. I told her I was hurt because she's going to spend upwards of $2K on this trip out of our budget and that we're probably going to have to cut next year's vacation short again, like we did last year because of her other trip with the girls to New Orleans. I told her that no matter how bad I was hurt because of these things, it didn't make it right to go off the handle like I did and that I was really sorry.

I said the decision as to whether she goes or not is up to her, and that I would support her, was prepared to spend whatever she needed on the trip. 

I also said that over the past couple days of soul searching and trying to determine why I became so enraged, that I feel like there's underlying reasons, that we have much deeper issues to address. Told her we use to do everything together and now we do very little, and asked her prior to going to an away game together last weekend, when the last time we done something together was. She couldn't answer, I can't remember, either. I told her that I'm not happy at all in the marriage and that we really need to communicate much better and start doing things together. I told her that if everything in our marriage was perfect and we did do things together all the time and, if I had $5K or $10K laying around, that I don't believe I'd have had the least little problem with this trip. However, I said we'd make due.

I poured my heart out of everything I feel is right and wrong in our relationship, taking most of the blame on myself. I was completely calm and under control and never once pointed the finger at her and said any of it was because of her.

In the end, I asked her if she had anything to say and she said she understood me being hurt because of how she hid it from me and how she's spending that much without asking. Annnnnnd, that was about it. She understood. She didn't say much. I asked her if she had anything about our marriage and nope, nothing, she's happy with a coexistent relationship. I think that hurt more than anything else over the past week. But. I kept my **** together and didn't say anything disparaging other than said that 12 years ago I had told her that we'd eventually come to a point in our relationship where all we did was coexist because that's how her mom and dad is, her sister and bro-in-law is, and her bro and sis-in-law is, and that I wouldn't like it. But, here we are, I chose to stay with her then knowing that it would come to this and now I'll have to deal with it.

So, here I am, she's happy, nothing wrong with our dull assed marriage on her end, she's going on the trip, and she's happy as long as she has me there so she's not alone. Everything is cool.

Thanks for your help....


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

wow Quenton...that's like putting a bandage on a broken arm but if it works...it sounds like you need to do more soul searching if you are willing to stay in this type of marriage, it seems based on her words that this is the best she can do or offer...and if that is not enough for you then it's time to reassess your personal priorities...and you need to tell her that...the lines of communications are open and you should tell her that this is not enough for me.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> nobody's pointed out anything within the past several posts that I don't have an understanding of, specifically regarding my temper. I've successfully dealt with that over the past 8 to 10 years, and I had a total slip up this week. I acknowledge that. I wish people wouldn't make assumptions and give advice based on what they think the situation to be, that being me going off the handle all the time....doesn't happen. I effed up, I get it. I know it. I own it.
> 
> That said, I had asked her to bring home literature about the trip yesterday, and she didn't. Pissed me completely off because I felt like she was still trying to hide things about the trip. BUT, I internalized, took a deep breath, and didn't say anything at all about it.
> 
> ...


Ummmm

That's not good at all. 

Was she always a disconnected person or this happen over time?

Out of curiosity when you were talking with her did you make eye contact and did she with you?

This is beginning to sound more like she has checked out of your marriage completely. You sure it's her sister going on the cruise and not someone else?


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Not saying she doesn't have faults, we ALL do. But that last post drips of manipulation. I was married to a manipulator, and I am currently in a relationship with a manipulator. (Although my tools for dealing with it are MUCH stronger now.) You still remind me of my ex.

She likely didn't say much during the conversation because she just doesn't know what to say. She probably ISN'T happy with the marriage, but she is trying to be a happy PERSON. Near the end of my marriage, I had to do things for myself to stay sane. I didn't want to lose my marriage, I DID love him.....but life WITH him was hard. So I sought out things to make me happy. Friends, family, hobbies, etc. 

So now you leave her with the "it's your choice" about the cruise, but you were trying to guilt her into chosing to not go. If she doesn't go, she misses out. If she goes, she will be the bad guy for "x,y,z reasons." It's a lose-lose for her at this point. 

She needs to read the book Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend. (Buy it for her? Pretty please?) 

Cue defensiveness in 3.....2.....


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Ummmm
> 
> That's not good at all.
> 
> ...


I honestly believe she loves me. She's under a lot of stress as the nurse manager over an OR, she's always got dramatic stories from work. I don't believe she's checked out, I just think this is what she believes a marriage is suppose to be. plus, our kids keep us going constantly, so we need to take that into consideration, also.

I'm different. my mom and dad at 66 years young still hold hands, do EVERYTHING together, one does NOTHING without the other, their relationship is almost like a fairy tale, and that's what I see as a great relationship.

I've accepted I may never have that, but want better than what I have, knowing it'll take effort on my part to get it there. and, that's what I have to work on now, putting forth the effort myself in hopes that she'll in turn see it and want it in the long run, too.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> Not saying she doesn't have faults, we ALL do. But that last post drips of manipulation. I was married to a manipulator, and I am currently in a relationship with a manipulator. (Although my tools for dealing with it are MUCH stronger now.) You still remind me of my ex.
> 
> She likely didn't say much during the conversation because she just doesn't know what to say. She probably ISN'T happy with the marriage, but she is trying to be a happy PERSON. Near the end of my marriage, I had to do things for myself to stay sane. I didn't want to lose my marriage, I DID love him.....but life WITH him was hard. So I sought out things to make me happy. Friends, family, hobbies, etc.
> 
> ...


nothing defensive, but you make a lot of assumptions instead of asking questions to get facts. I don't manipulate her, at least I don't think I do. hell, we don't communicate enough for me to manipulate her. 

she said she wasn't sure if they were going at this point because they need 4 people and there's only 3 at this point, so I told her it was up to her, her decision and hoped they'd find the 4th. it's not lose/lose for her. I told her I'd support her. I told her I've even started putting money away for her, that I transferred $500 to savings from checking yesterday and would so that each month over the next 4 or 5 so she had plenty of money for the trip.

my apologies for not being detailed enough for you and forced you to make assumptions. didn't think I needed to, but after all the assumptions made ITT, and me even making a comment about people making assumption in my post, one would think I'd have learned to be more detailed for you guys. again, my bad, i'll try to be more detailed.

no facetious intended.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Well I certainly hope you're right and maybe you both can get on the same page for a happier marriage. Guess I have become a bit jaded and when I see one spouse saying I'm unhappy and would like the fix this with you and the other day nah I'm good here that's not a good sign at all. If she was unhappy but still loved you she would be glad you want to fix things and yourself to make the marriage better. 


Good luck sir hope you can make this the marriage you are both happy with


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> In the end, I asked her if she had anything to say and she said she understood me being hurt because of how she hid it from me and how she's spending that much without asking. Annnnnnd, that was about it. She understood. She didn't say much. I asked her if she had anything about our marriage and nope, nothing, she's happy with a coexistent relationship. I think that hurt more than anything else over the past week. But. I kept my **** together and didn't say anything disparaging other than said that 12 years ago I had told her that we'd eventually come to a point in our relationship where all we did was coexist because that's how her mom and dad is, her sister and bro-in-law is, and her bro and sis-in-law is, and that I wouldn't like it. But, here we are, I chose to stay with her then knowing that it would come to this and now I'll have to deal with it.
> 
> So, here I am, she's happy, nothing wrong with our dull assed marriage on her end, she's going on the trip, and she's happy as long as she has me there so she's not alone. Everything is cool.
> 
> Thanks for your help....


That's heartbreaking to read.

It also took some serious wisdom to look around at her family, see the potential future, and try to warn her of the coming decline. Considering the details you've given it seems like your worst fears have been realized and she's totally content to have a lifeless, roommate marriage.

I feel you. The kind of marriage you describe just wouldn't be one I could stay in. I'd suffocate under the weight of that kind of disconnection. 

Are you open to leaving?

Is there a possibility at all that your wife just needs time to process this, that she isn't truly "happy", but doesn't really know how to begin bridging the gap between you? If so at least there would be some hope of recovery.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Well I certainly hope you're right and maybe you both can get on the same page for a happier marriage. Guess I have become a bit jaded and when I see one spouse saying I'm unhappy and would like the fix this with you and the other day nah I'm good here that's not a good sign at all. If she was unhappy but still loved you she would be glad you want to fix things and yourself to make the marriage better.
> 
> 
> Good luck sir hope you can make this the marriage you are both happy with


:iagree:

I'm sorry, too, Quentin. If one person in the marriage is unhappy, the other one needs to pay attention because that means their marriage is in trouble. How can she just shrug and say she's happy, so whatever? That completely ignores your part in the marriage.

I'd be doing some long, hard thinking if I were you. Maybe even start going to marriage counseling by myself, or individual counseling to help clarify my thoughts.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Are you open to leaving?


not even a consideration and won't be for the next 9 years, minimum. when we were separated, it absolutely killed me to only get to see my kids a couple times a week. absolutely no way can I handle not being there with them every day and absolutely no way in hell I could fathom some damn gold digger moving into the log house I built and being "daddy" to my children.

i'll drink chlorox by the gallonS first.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> not even a consideration and won't be for the next 9 years, minimum. when we were separated, it absolutely killed me to only get to see my kids a couple times a week. absolutely no way can I handle not being there with them every day and absolutely no way in hell I could fathom some damn gold digger moving into the log house I built and being "daddy" to my children.
> 
> i'll drink chlorox by the gallonS first.



What exactly was the reason for the first separation?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> I honestly believe she loves me. She's under a lot of stress as the nurse manager over an OR, she's always got dramatic stories from work. I don't believe she's checked out, I just think this is what she believes a marriage is suppose to be. plus, our kids keep us going constantly, so we need to take that into consideration, also. *First of all, great job on laying it out there for her. In short, talked to your W about your thoughts, feelings and concerns. Ball was in her court. She did not volley. It appears from her family history this how marriages are handled. As far as kids keeping you on the go, it takes time to make time for just the both of you. Apparently you W does not want any parts of that. For that, I'm sorry. *
> 
> I'm different. my mom and dad at 66 years young still hold hands, do EVERYTHING together, one does NOTHING without the other, their relationship is almost like a fairy tale, and that's what I see as a great relationship. *My folks were the same. My W folks were the same. My W and I are the same. *
> 
> I've accepted I may never have that, but want better than what I have, knowing it'll take effort on my part to get it there. and, that's what I have to work on now, putting forth the effort myself in hopes that she'll in turn see it and want it in the long run, too. *I commend you for working on it. I'm not sure I would look to work on the marriage if my W did not reciprocate something after I laid my soul out on the table.*


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> not even a consideration and won't be for the next 9 years, minimum. when we were separated, it absolutely killed me to only get to see my kids a couple times a week. absolutely no way can I handle not being there with them every day and absolutely no way in hell I could fathom some damn gold digger moving into the log house I built and being "daddy" to my children.
> 
> i'll drink chlorox by the gallonS first.


Some say you have to be willing to lose a marriage to save it. I can truly understand not seeing kids for a few days. I would miss mine dearly. 

It appears you really are in a marriage of convenience. Sorry it looks this way. Specifically since you grew up viewing marriage much differently. 

At this point, attempt(as you have been) to work on it and hopefully your W will begin to reciprocate.

Keep the Clorox in the laundry.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> What exactly was the reason for the first separation?


started with what I'm dealing with now. not doing things together. she'd go to her parents after work, I'd go hang out with my friends, get half drunk and go home. fighting because I wouldn't come home and because she would be at her parents. we had just built a house. had lived with her parents for some time until we got the house finished because we sold our other house faster than we thought. drinking obviously didn't help even a little bit....helped me cope, though. (calm down, tight ones of the forum, it's a joke, I can do that now, I'm winning that battle).

I was piece of chit at that point. I moved out and it took me time to see what I was.

when I returned was going to ask for divorce but she begged me to stay that day and not leave (I hadn't mentioned divorce) because she was afraid if I left that day I'd never come back, so I did, and I've been there ever since.

for the longest time after that we had the greatest relationship, did everything together and we were both extremely happy.

over the years since it's slowly developed into what I have now. we get along for the most part, rarely fight. but, it's turned into a marriage of convenience. 

as for sex, as maybe some are wondering. comes and goes. typically once a week, maybe a less, sometimes more, depends on the kids, honestly. but, not anything like it was before separation, which was once every month and a half to 2 months, and nothing akin to after the separation, which was 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, times a week. I mean, we'd be doing it before work and after work. kids asleep? yep, lets go. kids outside? yep, lets go. kids inside? yep, lets go outside and go. good lord I loved those days. LOL!

I can deal with what I have and be just fine. it's just not what I want, but I have to have at least that. without at least that, I couldn't go on.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> not even a consideration and won't be for the next 9 years, minimum. when we were separated, it absolutely killed me to only get to see my kids a couple times a week. absolutely no way can I handle not being there with them every day and absolutely no way in hell I could fathom some damn gold digger moving into the log house I built and being "daddy" to my children.
> 
> i'll drink chlorox by the gallonS first.


Even tougher still. On some level then she knows you're voluntarily stuck and has no incentive to reconnect with you if her claims of being happy are true.

All you can do is work on you. Improve your life, your health, fitness, career, have the best time with your kids, family, friends, just enjoy the life you do have to the fullest, right alongside her.

Perhaps it'll awake something in her, but if not, at least you're getting the best out of life from exactly where you are.



Quenton A said:


> over the years since it's slowly developed into what I have now. we get along for the most part, rarely fight. but, it's turned into a marriage of convenience.
> 
> as for sex, as maybe some are wondering. comes and goes. typically once a week, maybe a less, sometimes more, depends on the kids, honestly. but, not anything like it was before separation, which was once every month and a half to 2 months.



Sounds like she might just be content that things aren't as bad as they were before when you separated. 

From her POV ift might not be the paradise you long for, but it's not the hell it once was. Some people are satisfied just to NOT be in the middle of a warzone.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> started with what I'm dealing with now. * not doing things together. she'd go to her parents after work, I'd go hang out with my friends, get half drunk and go home. fighting because I wouldn't come home and because she would be at her parents. *we had just built a house. had lived with her parents for some time until we got the house finished because we sold our other house faster than we thought. drinking obviously didn't help even a little bit....helped me cope, though. (calm down, tight ones of the forum, it's a joke, I can do that now, I'm winning that battle).


So basically it's the same problem repeating itself over and over during the entire marriage , and that's what got you so pissed at this trip.

Am I correct?

If so, why do you suppose she preferred to do the New Orleans thing and this trip , and also not attend the season's games with you and your son ?


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> So basically it's the same problem repeating itself over and over during the entire marriage , and that's what got you so pissed at this trip.
> 
> Am I correct?
> 
> If so, why do you suppose she preferred to do the New Orleans thing and this trip , and also not attend the season's games with you and your son ?


yes and no. yes, seems like same problem all over again. no, I was pissed because she's wanting to drop 2 grand after I just cashed in our savings to pay a couple loans off so we could start saving more, and I was pissed because she _told_ me she was going versus asking me. perhaps the other is an underlying factor that perhaps helped out the outrageous reaction from me, but that in of itself isn't why I got pissed, at least I don't think....could be wrong.

there's a bunch around the house that needs done, she's always coming up with something new, and it all carries a price tag. she's not a nagger, but she's got a list of things she wants done and they all cost.......buuuuut, she's going on a $2K cruise. what do we want here? stuff done around the house or go enjoy ourselves? and _that's_ what I'd like to say at this point, but why? why go back down that road? I'm convinced that she deserves the time away, she deserves this, so we'll just have to put the stuff around the house off. ya know?

why she wants to do this trip and that trip with them? I guess you're implying because she doesn't want to with me. you're probably right, and that stings to think, but it's probably true. but, I can promise one thing, this will be the last one until I have the extra money laying around and don't have all these projects to do that needs done. 

keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerist, the more you guys make me think, the more I realize I'm pretty much effed, the more I feel like getting sh*thoused, going home, torching the house, and yelling F*** THE WORLD AND HER TOO!! to the top of my lungs until the police come to get me.

buuuut, I'm a level headed person. I can cope. I've had my once a decade release of anger, so I'm good to go. just keep on keeping on and being there with my kids. screw everything else.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sounds like you W has some unreasonable expectations of you. You have alluded to her that this trip will cut into your family vacation next year. Did not seem to faze her. I don't think bringing up home repairs will faze her either. It appears she is in week long cruise mode. Your W is part of the bill paying?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Do you ever plan fun things to do together, that she enjoys too? I'm not talking about football games(not exactly a thing many women love), but maybe something similar to when you dated or something romantic? 

Honestly, I think she has "checked out" from what I've read. You get your fun time with friends, the yearly camping trip, season tickets, and so on, but I think she is just putting up a 'face' saying she's happy, when she's not. She has a very stressful job(many healthcare professionals get 'burn out') and a struggling marriage, which maybe lead her to feeling depressed. In many of your posts, I see a lot about what you want from her in regards to your needs, but what have you done to help her? Are you trying to "lighten her load" from the stress she has?


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

FrenchFry said:


> You kind of seem like a volcano--dormant for a little while but when you explode, it's kind of catastrophic.
> 
> Do you think your wife has this trait as well?


no, I don't think she does. and, you're right to an extent. I'm dormant for a long while. ha.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> Sounds like you W has some unreasonable expectations of you. You have alluded to her that this trip will cut into your family vacation next year. Did not seem to faze her. I don't think bringing up home repairs will faze her either. It appears she is in week long cruise mode. Your W is part of the bill paying?


yeah, she is.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> Are you trying to "lighten her load" from the stress she has?


yeah, I don't bother her. ha.

seriously, though, we have someone clean the house once a week, so she doesn't have to deal with that. I've been trying to wash clothes lately when I see the need. I do realize she's got a lot on her plate with work and she really is stressed a lot from it. she typically comes home in the evening and lays on bed watching tv with daughter while son and I watch television in living room, or kids and I are doing something outside/inside, while she rests. 

we take turns cooking but are very fortunate her mom lives close, which really hasn't been an issue, and she's a good country cookin' woman. kids eat at nanny's a lot, so that helps us out with that.

IOW, it's not like she leaves work to come home and cook, clean, etc. she comes home and crashes more often than not.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> yeah, she is.


I would say she had different priorities. The cruise before the house. She should then recognize you two can't do both financially. Therefore, don't beat yourself up over it. I wouldn't. The project goes on the back burner. That is the W choice from the looks of it. 

May I ask, did your FIL work himself to the bone to provide vacations, home repairs and everything else entailed with a marriage so you MIL would be happy or just keep an even keel? Since you W currently handles you marriage like her folks did I suspect the realistic financial picture does not match what W looks to spend. However, you are just to make it happen. (Sometimes in my marriage I feel that way. Just make it happen. It can be very stressful.)


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

What does she think about her job? Does she like it? Would she think about switching to a less demanding area(not the OR)?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mr. Nail said:


> Some people put water back into the bucket.
> 
> I don't want to say that abusive actions don't take their toll. I don't want to say that your read on Quentin's situation is wrong. I'm just saying that there is a way back, sometimes. I also know some people who never allow any water back in the bucket.
> 
> ...


Oh, I didn't mean to imply he was abusive or that he doesn't provide lots of loving actions. I'm sure he's a great husband. I was just explaining about the not telling him up front part, at least my speculation on it.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> May I ask, did your FIL work himself to the bone to provide vacations, home repairs and everything else entailed with a marriage so you MIL would be happy or just keep an even keel?


wife was an accident. next oldest is around 14 or 15 years older than her. she pretty much got everything she wanted as a kid. new carS, pretty much whatever she wanted.

her father was retired when we started dating is one heck of a great man. total respect for him and MIL, both. the just raised a spoiled daughter that I married.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeswecan said:


> Sounds like you W has some unreasonable expectations of you. You have alluded to her that this trip will cut into your family vacation next year. Did not seem to faze her. I don't think bringing up home repairs will faze her either. It appears she is in week long cruise mode. Your W is part of the bill paying?


It tells me she gets nothing from the marriage so she'd rather BE on a cruise than at home or on vacation with you. It would be good to find out why. It sounds like she's on the way to being a walkaway wife.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? IMO, that's the first thing you need to do. In it, you'll hear that you two need to spend at least 15 hours a week together. It's nearly impossible to stay in love with someone with whom you simply co-exist. You have to be doing things together to keep or create a bond. You can't fall in love with the mailman if you only see him/her for 2 minutes a day, you know?

So whatever you have to do, get that book and start reading it together, and FIND ways to start spending time with her. We can help with ideas.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> What does she think about her job? Does she like it? Would she think about switching to a less demanding area(not the OR)?


depends on which day of the week you ask her.

I hate it. she makes less money than she did as a regular nurse than she does as the manager. salary vs. hourly and when she was hourly all the OT she continues to work, she got paid for. makes more on the hour now, but it doesn't work out at the end of the year when OT is taken into consideration.

she just got this position and is something she's wanted for a good while, so, no, she's not switching.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> yes and no. yes, seems like same problem all over again. no, I was pissed because she's wanting to drop 2 grand after I just cashed in our savings to pay a couple loans off so we could start saving more, and I was pissed because she _told_ me she was going versus asking me. perhaps the other is an underlying factor that perhaps helped out the outrageous reaction from me, but that in of itself isn't why I got pissed, at least I don't think....could be wrong.
> 
> there's a bunch around the house that needs done, she's always coming up with something new, and it all carries a price tag. she's not a nagger, but she's got a list of things she wants done and they all cost.......buuuuut, she's going on a $2K cruise. what do we want here? stuff done around the house or go enjoy ourselves? and _that's_ what I'd like to say at this point, but why? why go back down that road? I'm convinced that she deserves the time away, she deserves this, so we'll just have to put the stuff around the house off. ya know?
> 
> ...


That's ok.

You can only take responsibility for YOUR your part in this and YOUR actions.

She has to take responsibility for hers, the problem you're facing is how to get her to do that.

The dynamic in your marriage is something like the "Karpman drama triangle " scenario where you are constantly being thrust into the roles of either perpetrator [ bad guy ] , rescuer [ Enabler / fixing things when they go awry ] or victim [ feeling helpless]. And you feel unable to control anything that happens or even how you respond to it.

Those aren't the roles you desire to play , but the negative dynamic constantly forces you into those roles.

Yes?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> wife was an accident. next oldest is around 14 or 15 years older than her. she pretty much got everything she wanted as a kid. new carS, pretty much whatever she wanted.
> 
> her father was retired when we started dating is one heck of a great man. total respect for him and MIL, both. the just raised a spoiled daughter that I married.


Are feeling your are buying the princess to keep her happy? In other words, to keep peace you purchase, pay for or obtain things she wants whether a necessity or luxury? My BIL did this with his W. Ran credit cards through the roof. Could not afford her.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

turnera said:


> It sounds like she's on the way to being a walkaway wife.


I'd just as soon she run like he11 than stay around if she's feeling like some portray.

As long as I'm there with the kids, that's all I care about. if she comes around and it somehow gets better, then that'll be icing on the cake.....and, i'll try to make it better, to help her come around.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> It tells me she gets nothing from the marriage so she'd rather BE on a cruise than at home or on vacation with you. It would be good to find out why. It sounds like she's on the way to being a walkaway wife.
> 
> Have you read His Needs Her Needs? IMO, that's the first thing you need to do. In it, you'll hear that you two need to spend at least 15 hours a week together. It's nearly impossible to stay in love with someone with whom you simply co-exist. You have to be doing things together to keep or create a bond. You can't fall in love with the mailman if you only see him/her for 2 minutes a day, you know?
> 
> So whatever you have to do, get that book and start reading it together, and FIND ways to start spending time with her. We can help with ideas.


The issue looks to be she is not engaged with Q other than a convenience. Getting in 15 hours a week will be a struggle at best.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's ok.
> 
> You can only take responsibility for YOUR your part in this and YOUR actions.
> 
> ...


read that and LMAO. yeah, yes, that'd be me!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> she typically comes home in the evening and lays on bed watching tv with daughter while son and I watch television in living room, or kids and I are doing something outside/inside, while she rests. we take turns cooking but are very fortunate her mom lives close, which really hasn't been an issue, and she's a good country cookin' woman. kids eat at nanny's a lot, so that helps us out with that.


Holy crap. SO many red flags there, Quenton. First, stop splitting up the family every night. Second, turn off the damn TVs. You're the parents - set limits. My DD24 was allowed 30 minutes a day during the school year of tv/computer/electronics during the school week and an hour during the weekend. Her choice what to do with it, but the rest of the time she had to find other things to keep her occupied, like, you know, living? The only exception was we'd get TOGETHER and watch this or that show TOGETHER. This splitting up the family has got to stop or you're going to find yourself divorced when the kids age out. Make it a point to DO things with your kids every night. Board games, walks, card games, charades, exercising the dog, reading to each other...your kids only get one childhood and that childhood determines what they'll be the rest of their lives. Plus, they need to see concerted efforts from their parents in their lives and what makes them tick. Don't let them waste it in front of the TV. Next thing you know they'll be 18 and moving out - to go sit in front of another TV, since that's all they know.

Third, why do you have to take turns cooking dinner? Why can't you do it together - WITH the kids? They should be learning to cook anyway, you'll get bonding time with her, and kids want nothing more than to spend time with you.

Time for some changes.


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## Quenton A (Sep 18, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> Are feeling your are buying the princess to keep her happy? In other words, to keep peace you purchase, pay for or obtain things she wants whether a necessity or luxury? My BIL did this with his W. Ran credit cards through the roof. Could not afford her.


we've def had our share of money issues, but I won't blame her for all of that, takes two. I grew up in a poor family. we had all the love in the world and if we coulda sold it, we'd be multibillionaires. but, dang, we were poor. so, as I've become more successful, there's been things I've wanted that I didn't need but went ahead and got them. her too.

I'm finally to the point where we can save money, and a good bit. the cost of the trip won't be real difficult to cover, it's just going to take away from some other things she's wanting done, and maybe even take away from.....

.........she's wanting is a new vehicle, like wanting one yesterday. I told her I wanted her to keep it and her "deal" was to keep it until spring then get a new one. so, I was actually planning on getting her one for Christmas, but not sure now. I'm sure she'll end up with one, though.

I really want to curse loudly now, but I'm holding it in.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeswecan said:


> The issue looks to be she is not engaged with Q other than a convenience. Getting in 15 hours a week will be a struggle at best.


You'd be surprised how you can fit it in. Get up 5 minutes early and have a cup of coffee together each morning. Or a cup of tea before you go to bed, to talk about your day. Set up a jigsaw puzzle and when you're waiting for the kids to get ready, sit down together and work on it. Walk to the grocery store instead of driving to it, and talk on the way. Take baths together once the kids go to sleep. Take turns reading a book to each other, 15 minutes a day. Take the kids to a park with a playground, and have a picnic while the kids are on the jungle gym. Try out new sex positions or events (get the 52 Invitations to Grrreat Sex) book. Get Granny to pick up the kids from school, pack a bag, and pick the wife up from work and whisk her away to a B&B for a night. Join a babysitting co-op so that you have one free night a month for a date.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Quenton A said:


> she's wanting a new vehicle, like wanting one yesterday. I told her I wanted her to keep it and her "deal" was to keep it until spring then get a new one. so, I was actually planning on getting her one for Christmas, but not sure now. I'm sure she'll end up with one, though.


Why? Don't you know how to say no?

You have a perfect opportunity here. "Wife, we're putting away 15% of our income into retirement and 10% away into savings. Part of that new regimen means that I was planning to have about $2000 for your new car next year. But if you go on that trip, which was NOT saved up for, I won't have the money to buy your car. It's your choice, but we can't swing both. Do you want to go on the trip or do you want a new car in the next 6 months?"


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Quenton A said:


> read that and LMAO. yeah, yes, that'd be me!




The bad news is , if you continue doing what you are doing, then you cannot get out of that dynamic, and it would eventually destroy any feeling of respect she has for you and love you have for her.

Here is a good resourceful website;

The Drama Triangle: The Three Roles of Victimhood - article by Dr. Lynne Namka

That could help you rise above the Drama Triangle.

Your first step is to take control of YOUR actions and responsibility for YOUR part in the drama.
Then take control of the situation.

Effective communication helps followed by setting proper boundaries.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> You'd be surprised how you can fit it in. Get up 5 minutes early and have a cup of coffee together each morning. Or a cup of tea before you go to bed, to talk about your day. Set up a jigsaw puzzle and when you're waiting for the kids to get ready, sit down together and work on it. Walk to the grocery store instead of driving to it, and talk on the way. Take baths together once the kids go to sleep. Take turns reading a book to each other, 15 minutes a day. Take the kids to a park with a playground, and have a picnic while the kids are on the jungle gym. Try out new sex positions or events (get the 52 Invitations to Grrreat Sex) book. Get Granny to pick up the kids from school, pack a bag, and pick the wife up from work and whisk her away to a B&B for a night. Join a babysitting co-op so that you have one free night a month for a date.


In my mind the 15 hours is a few hours a day. Not 5-10 minutes here and there. However, if that is all two has to work with then it will have to work. :smthumbup:


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Quenton A said:


> we've def had our share of money issues, but I won't blame her for all of that, takes two. I grew up in a poor family. we had all the love in the world and if we coulda sold it, we'd be multibillionaires. but, dang, we were poor. so, as I've become more successful, there's been things I've wanted that I didn't need but went ahead and got them. her too. * My W was like you. Poor family. Lots of love. Understands the value of a dollar. I was a doctors kid. However, I was 1 of 5 kids. Spending sprees did not happen. But, life and family time was fun filled. Nice vacations. My W vacations when she was little was a day at the beach. Yes, 1 day at the beach. She does understand the value of the dollar. Does not every spend money on just anything. One of the many traits I love about her. *
> 
> I'm finally to the point where we can save money, and a good bit. the cost of the trip won't be real difficult to cover, it's just going to take away from some other things she's wanting done, and maybe even take away from..... *Do you think she understands this? If so...her choice. *
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeswecan said:


> In my mind the 15 hours is a few hours a day. Not 5-10 minutes here and there. However, if that is all two has to work with then it will have to work. :smthumbup:


Actually, Harley didn't say that it needed to be full chunks at a time. He says that it's all the little things that add up to you having a warm fuzzy about your spouse, that make you look forward to being around them.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> Actually, Harley didn't say that it needed to be full chunks at a time. He says that it's all the little things that add up to you having a warm fuzzy about your spouse, that make you look forward to being around them.


I can see how little bits of time here and there would work. We like long expanses. Basically all weekend together. Hour in the morning. All evening. Come to think of it...my W and I spend an inordinate amount of time together. :scratchhead: In practice 15 plus works. Living proof. What do you know?!? 

Q Check out Marriage Builders.com


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I understand your vision for your ideal marriage, I have that same vision. Holding hands, loving and affectionate, always wanting to do things together. My parents definitely don't have this. DH didn't even have a father around and he has this vision too. I think it's something everyone would want deep down, but maybe some don't see it as a possibility.

I think you could definitely benefit from the book, "Getting the Love You Want" by H. Hendrix. The exercises in the back of the book once you've finished reading are incredible at helping two people start to align their vision for their ideal marriage. Even just the first couple. It's worth trying, it really is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree. It's an excellent book. You learn a LOT.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Looks like we have taken on a lot of D0cCool refugees here on TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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