# Stubborn Love



## Pomlover (May 15, 2013)

"Stubborn love" - The Lumineers


She'll lie and steal, and cheat, and beg you from her knees
Make you think she means it this time
She'll tear a hole in you, the one you can't repair
But I still love her, I don't really care

When we were young, oh, oh, we did enough
When it got cold, ooh, ooh, we bundled up
I can't be told, ah, ah, it can't be done

It's better to feel pain, than nothing at all
The opposite of love's indifference
So pay attention now, I'm standing on your porch screaming out
And I won't leave until you come downstairs

So keep your head up, keep your love
Keep your head up, my love [x2]
Keep your head up, keep your love

And I don't blame you dear for running like you did all these years
I would do the same, you'd best believe
And the highway signs say we're close but I don't read those things anymore
I never trusted my own eyes

When we were young oh, oh, we did enough
When it got cold, ooh, ooh we bundled up
I can't be told, ah, ah, it can't be done

So keep your head up, keep your love
Keep your head up, my love [x2]
Keep your head up, keep your love
Head up, love
Head up, love
Head up, love
Head up, love
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Sounds like you're very remorseful for what you've done.. I hope it works out for you.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree that Pomlover sounds very remorseful but I have to ask the following questions. Why did you think it would be acceptable to carry on a long term sexual affair behind your husband's back putting him at risk for STD's? What kind of a mindset allowed you to think that this was acceptable?

Did it ever occur to you how you would have felt if your husband was doing to this you behind your back also? Why was it not acceptable for him to do this but was acceptable for you to do this?


----------



## Rollin (May 18, 2013)

Posting song lyrics = remorseful?

lol


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Rollin said:


> Posting song lyrics = remorseful?
> 
> lol


I'm glad someone else said it. LMAO


----------



## jandres6 (May 24, 2013)

kinda feel the OP is the BS and refuses to give up. Could be wrong. Where I am right now, that's what it says to me.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

jandres6 said:


> kinda feel the OP is the BS and refuses to give up. Could be wrong. Where I am right now, that's what it says to me.


You would think... but no, she's the WS.

But really, posting song lyrics doesn't show remorse. Posting song lyrics only says "hey, this song is in my head right now and it's speaking to me at this moment." Could just as easily have posted the lyrics to Three Days Grace's "I Hate Everything About You".... the lyric posting means nothing. Actions speak much louder than the loudest stereo/mp3 player... just sayin'

FYI: THIS song speaks more about remorse than the above one, IMO.

"Love Is Not A Fight" by Warren Barfield

Love is not a place 
To come and go as we please 
It's a house we answer in 
Then commit to never leave

So lock the door behind you 
Throw away the key 
We'll work it out together 
Let it bring us to our knees

Love is a shelter in a raging storm 
Love is peace in the middle of a war 
And if we try to leave 
May God send angels to guard the door 
No, love is not a fight 
But it's something worth fighting for

To some love is a word 
That they can fall into 
But when they're falling out 
Keeping that word is hard to do

Love is a shelter in a raging storm 
Love is peace in the middle of a war 
And if we try to leave 
May God send angels to guard the door 
No, love is not a fight 
But it's something worth fighting for

Love will come to save us 
If we'll only call 
He will ask nothing from us 
But demand we give our all

Love is a shelter in a raging storm 
Love is peace in the middle of a war 
And if we try to leave 
May God send angels to guard the door 
No, love is not a fight 
But it's something worth fighting for

Yes, I will fight for you 
Would you fight for me? 
It's worth fighting for, baby


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Pomlover said:


> She'll lie and steal, and cheat, and beg you from her knees
> Make you think she means it this time
> She'll tear a hole in you
> 
> ...


Sounds about right!


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eadiepbb said:


> Sounds like you're very remorseful for what you've done


Because she posted lyrics to a song? :scratchhead:

Does that mean if I post the lyrics to the song "Orca" by Wintersleep, that I want to be a killer whale? That's how much sense it makes to say that a WS must be remorseful if he/she is posting song lyrics. Song lyrics mean nothing. It's your own words and actions that prove that you are remorseful or not.


----------



## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

Considering the cartel cheating connection, how about some "Criminal" by Fiona Apple? This song spoke to my WS when she was trying to convince me to stay and work on things:

---

I've been a bad bad girl
I've been careless with a delicate man
And it's a sad sad world
When a girl will break a boy
Just because she can
Don't you tell me to deny it
I've done wrong and I want to
Suffer for my sins
I've come to you 'cause I need
Guidance to be true
And I just don't know where I can begin

What I need is a good defense
'Cause I'm feelin' like a criminal
And I need to redeemed
To the one I've sinned against
Because he's all I ever knew of love

Heaven help me for the way I am
Save me from these evil deeds
Before I get them done
I know tomorrow brings the consequence
At hand
But I keep livin' this day like
The next will never come

Oh help me but don't tell me
To deny it
I've got to cleanse myself
Of all these lies till I'm good
Enough for him
I've got a lot to lose and I'm
Bettin' high
So I'm beggin' you before it ends
Just tell me where to begin

What I need is a good defense
'Cause I'm feelin' like a criminal
And I need to redeemed
To the one I've sinned against
Because he's all I ever knew of love

Let me know the way
Before there's hell to pay
Give me room to lay the law and let me go
I've got to make a play
To make my lover stay
So what would an angel say
The devil wants to know

What I need is a good defense
'Cause I'm feelin' like a criminal
And I need to redeemed
To the one I've sinned against
Because he's all I ever knew of love

What I need is a good defense
'Cause I'm feelin' like a criminal
And I need to redeemed
To the one I've sinned against

Because he's all I ever knew of love


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I prefer the song "Liar" by Henry Rollins in such a circumstance.

You think you're gonna to live your life alone
In darkness
And seclusion
Yeah I know
You've been out there
Tried to mix with those animals
And it just left you full of humiliated confusion
So you stagger back home
And wait for nothing
But the solitary refinement of your room spits you back out onto the street
And now you're desperate
And in need of human contact
And then
You meet me
And you whole world changes
Because everything I say is everything you've ever wanted to hear
So you drop all your defenses and you drop all your fears
And you trust me completely
I'm perfect
In every way
Cause I make you feel so strong and so powerful inside
You feel so lucky
But your ego obscures reality
And you never bother to wonder why
Things are going so well
You wanna know why?
Cause I'm a liar
Yeah I'm a liar
I'll tear your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
Cause I'm a liar, a liar
A liar, a liar

I'll hide behind a smile
And understanding eyes
And I'll tell you things that you already know
So you can say
I really identify with you, so much
And all the time that you're needing me
Is just the time that I'm bleeding you
Don't you get it yet?
I'll come to you like an affliction
And I'll leave you like an addiction
You'll never forget me
You wanna know why?
Cause I'm a liar
Yeah I'm a liar
I'll rip your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
Cause I'm a liar, a liar
Liar, liar, liar, liar

I don't know why I feel the need to lie
And cause you so much pain
Maybe it's something inside
Maybe it's something I can't explain
Cause all I do
Is mess you up and lie to you
I'm a liar
Oh, I am a liar

If you'll give me one more chance
I swear that I will never lie to you again
Because now I see the destructive power of a lie
They're stronger than truth
I can't believe I ever hurt you
I swear
I will never to you lie again, please
Just give me one more chance
I will never lie to you again
I swear
That I will never tell a lie
I will never tell a lie
No, no
Ha ha ha ha ha hah haa haa haa haaa
Sucker
Sucker!
Oh, sucker
I am a liar
Yeah, I am a liar
Yeah I like it
I feel good
Ohh I am a liar
Yeah
I lie
I lie
I lie
Oh, I lie
Oh I lie
I lie
Yeah
Ohhh I'm a liar
I lie
Yeah
I like it
I feel good
I'll lie again
And again
I'll lie again and again
And I'll keep lying
I promise


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow. There is a lot of remorse here.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLR25EJtfE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VascyLfpNrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APYeKa_WL_Q

Sorry 
Too lazy to look up lyrics.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

I read her other threads.. So I do believe she sounds remorseful..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

KimatraAKM said:


> I read her other threads.. So I do believe she sounds remorseful..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigh...you missed the point.... posting lyrics to a song DOES NOT PROVE you are remorseful..any more than posting lyrics makes me wish I was an orca. They are songs. Period. They invoke a response, nothing more. Is she remorseful? Maybe. But the song doesn't tell us, or her husband, that. It's her ACTIONS as well as, you know, the fact that she came clean to her husband.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Sigh...you missed the point.... posting lyrics to a song DOES NOT PROVE you are remorseful..any more than posting lyrics makes me wish I was an orca. They are songs. Period. They invoke a response, nothing more. Is she remorseful? Maybe. But the song doesn't tell us, or her husband, that. It's her ACTIONS as well as, you know, the fact that she came clean to her husband.


*Your words are now mine: “Sigh…you missed the point…”

When did YOU or ANYONE ONE on TAM become the GUILT AND REMORSE POLICE FORCE? Each and every one of us is different, and we show guilt and remorse differently. Pom needs to take her first steps to remorse her WAY, not MINE, not YOURS, and certainly not any other TAM member. If writing a simple poem is her way of reaching out to others than please don’t torpedo her, just for trying, that shows complete and downright disrespect to her. But then again, I guess it’s very easy to post a negative comment than a positive comment, because the latter that requires the individual to switch on their brain first!

Have a nice day!*


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> *Your words are now mine: “Sigh…you missed the point…”
> 
> When did YOU or ANYONE ONE on TAM become the GUILT AND REMORSE POLICE FORCE? Each and every one of us is different, and we show guilt and remorse differently. Pom needs to take her first steps to remorse her WAY, not MINE, not YOURS, and certainly not any other TAM member. If writing a simple poem is her way of reaching out to others than please don’t torpedo her, just for trying, that shows complete and downright disrespect to her. But then again, I guess it’s very easy to post a negative comment than a positive comment, because the latter that requires the individual to switch on their brain first!
> 
> Have a nice day!*


If SHE had written a poem, I could see that as true. Posting someone else's words? Sorry, don't see it. She only posted the lyrics to a song. Nothing more than that. I stand by my previous post: posting song lyrics only says "this is what's in my head at the moment." or "This song speaks to me at this point because...." It was *everyone else* saying "you sound so remorseful" in this thread. No, based solely on posting song lyrics, it doesn't sound remorseful.

Also, I don't disagree that each of us takes our own steps regarding remorse. I did. So did many other WS on here. No argument there. And easy to post negative comments? Really? Have you not read other posts I have made to WS who have shown they are remorseful? All I have said in here is that posting lyrics to a song is not showing remorse. It's just posting a song. Posting a poem the WS writes, from his or her own hand, is a different story. SHE never said anything about this showing remorse... it was other people saying it.

But you have a nice day, too! And enjoy the actual song below, not just the lyrics. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJWk_KNbDHo


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello Maricha,

Ready....



> If SHE had written a poem, I could see that as true. Posting someone else's words? Sorry, don't see it. She only posted the lyrics to a song. Nothing more than that. I stand by my previous post: posting song lyrics only says "this is what's in my head at the moment." or "This song speaks to me at this point because...." It was *everyone else* saying "you sound so remorseful" in this thread. No, based solely on posting song lyrics, it doesn't sound remorseful.


So she used existing lyrics to a poem/song written by somebody else as a vehicle to express herself; trying to show feelings of remorse and you think that’s not a first step to her showing absolutely any kind of remorse, solely based on your version of what is remorse. So you decided to appoint yourself the guilt and remorse police force; on anyone who doesn’t show your version of remorse, than it’s not real remorse. So you and others get to shot her down just for trying to reach out. Your lack of understanding and compassion is black and white when it should be everything in between.



> Also, I don't disagree that each of us takes our own steps regarding remorse. I did. So did many other WS on here. No argument there. And easy to post negative comments? Really? Have you not read other posts I have made to WS who have shown they are remorseful? All I have said in here is that posting lyrics to a song is not showing remorse. It's just posting a song. Posting a poem the WS writes, from his or her own hand, is a different story. SHE never said anything about this showing remorse... it was other people saying it.


I’m responding to your post on Pom’s thread and not anyone else’s thread; and no, I have not read that many threads yet, nor yours*, as I only joined last month, but don’t worry I’m now looking forward to reading them, all of them. The last thread Pom started she received a verbal beating from just about everyone including me, it was not my finest hour; for her cheating and endangering herself and her husband from her psychotic and brainless drug dealer boyfriend. The fact that Pom still has an active account on TAM and is prepared to post and still get a beating from certain Tamers should be a clear indication to anyone; she is trying to reach out for understanding and compassion for actions, and if posting poems/lyrics is her way of dealing with her actions, than this is her way and should not be condemned. 

I lied I read your thread*; you had an EA on WoW, in comfort of your own home and was exposed by your youngest, what a smart baby . Pom had an EA/PA with a VERY dangerous man who is fully capable of using violence to get what he wants. Your guilt and remorse is very different from hers and just as you were given the understanding and compassion on your thread can you at least give her the same chance you were given? 



> But you have a nice day, too! And enjoy the actual song below, not just the lyrics.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJWk_KNbDHo


It’s now past midnight here, but thank you anyway! 
And thank you for the link, I saw it, and I can understand why Pom chose that song now.

Good evening, Maricha!


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Your guilt and remorse is very different from hers and just as you were given the understanding and compassion on your thread can you at least give her the same chance you were given?


Why, yes I could very easily give her the chance... and likely would have, had I been able to post in her initial thread, which was deleted, if I remember correctly. Why you single me out as the only one speaking against other people saying she must be remorseful because she is posting these lyrics, I am not sure. But honestly, I wasn't even speaking TO her and her remorse or lack thereof. I was speaking to those who were saying "Oh, you poor thing! You're obviously remorseful!" 

My guilt and remorse is different? Hmmm... not so sure I buy into that theory, unless you mean that it is different due to stages in reconciliation? Because honestly, cheating is cheating, no matter whether emotional or physical. I'd say the only thing WORSE about hers would MAYBE be the fact that she chose a dangerous man.


Yea, I have smart kids, for sure. And the fact that my EAs were begun in my own home... you do realize that either of mine, or even my husband's, could easily have been just as dangerous, right? Having never met any of them in person, there's a good chance they could have been very different from what they portrayed (aside from the usual, that is...lying...cheating... etc). So, unless you are referencing the stages, we will have to agree to disagree.

ETA: I just went to her other thread... the one where she was asking advice regarding having sex with her husband. After reading a few posts there...I now understand, FTP, why you defend her so vehemently. As I said, no need to defend. I just don't see posting song lyrics as indicative of being remorseful... not without some sort of "hey, this is why this is in my head..." sort of thing. Meh, it is what it is. I understand why you defend her so much though.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

> Why, yes I could very easily give her the chance... and likely would have, had I been able to post in her initial thread, which was deleted, if I remember correctly. Why you single me out as the only one speaking against other people saying she must be remorseful because she is posting these lyrics, I am not sure. But honestly, I wasn't even speaking TO her and her remorse or lack thereof. I was speaking to those who were saying "Oh, you poor thing! You're obviously remorseful!"


I Agree, I too am disappointed that her thread was deleted; it would have been very educationally and interesting to see one CHEATER grill another CHEATER. Interesting, so do have the ability to show understanding and compassion, but is that at the shallow end or the deep end; I must now read your posts to better understand you. I did not single you out deliberately you are not that special nor is any other Tam member, but replied to the last post on Pom’s thread, which was yours at that time. But interesting I had no idea you were a CHEATER until I read your thread, so was surprised by your grilling of Pom! If I’m honest I thought you would have shown her more understanding and compassion than I would have; as a former CHEATER and I’m the saviour of a CHEATER.



> My guilt and remorse is different? Hmmm... not so sure I buy into that theory, unless you mean that it is different due to stages in reconciliation? Because honestly, cheating is cheating, no matter whether emotional or physical. I'd say the only thing WORSE about hers would MAYBE be the fact that she chose a dangerous man.


Look at that, I’m agreeing with you. (Stop smiling, you haven't won yet)



> Yea, I have smart kids, for sure. And the fact that my EAs were begun in my own home... you do realize that either of mine, or even my husband's, could easily have been just as dangerous, right?


No! But that’s why I’m here to learn what EA/PA FOG etc. is. For too long I had a story but no way to understand what that story meant and my role in that sorry chapter of my life. 



> Having never met any of them in person, there's a good chance they could have been very different from what they portrayed (aside from the usual, that is...lying...cheating... etc). So, unless you are referencing the stages, we will have to agree to disagree.


Look at that, I’m agreeing with you yet again. (Stop smiling it’s annoying me…..)




> ETA: I just went to her other thread... the one where she was asking advice regarding having sex with her husband. After reading a few posts there...I now understand, FTP, why you defend her so vehemently. As I said, no need to defend. I just don't see posting song lyrics as indicative of being remorseful... not without some sort of "hey, this is why this is in my head..." sort of thing. Meh, it is what it is. I understand why you defend her so much though.


What a shame, your last paragraph is so weak and you were doing so well, oh well I guess I’ll just have to lower myself to your level and answer you. So you read one thread that’s not even the complete story of Pom’s because it was deleted and from that thread you now claim to understand me so well. I’m disappointed in you and you almost had me convinced you were capable of true understanding and compassion for a fellow CHEATER like Pom. I guess your understanding and compassion is definitely in the shallow end as I expected. I know that I’m capable of showing sympathy for CHEATERS who show TRUE GUILT and TRUE REMORSE and take RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

Good night


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> What a shame, your last paragraph is so weak and you were doing so well, oh well I guess I’ll just have to lower myself to your level and answer you. So you read one thread that’s not even the complete story of Pom’s because it was deleted and from that thread you now claim to understand me so well. I’m disappointed in you and you almost had me convinced you were capable of true understanding and compassion for a fellow CHEATER like Pom. I guess your understanding and compassion is definitely in the shallow end as I expected. I know that I’m capable of showing sympathy for CHEATERS who show TRUE GUILT and TRUE REMORSE and take RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
> 
> Good night


Well, I'd read more of her story... alas, it was deleted, so I can't go back and familiarize myself with the rest of her story. What I recall from the thread she deleted was PA with drug cartel guy. Husband mad that she endangered them. Drug guy tried blackmail and, I believe tried threats. She went to her parents and he went somewhere else. Can't remember where, sorry to say. They met up at the house a couple days later and had sex. And she was questioning if that is a good thing or bad thing. 

So, looking in her own threads, I think I have background. However, I think there were a few posts missing, possibly in other threads, so I will have to go back and look. No worries, I will get there. Now, all I meant, regarding your defense of Pom was your own words: 


FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Pom's story is *VERY CLOSE TO MINE!* So *LEAVE HER ALONE*!
> 
> FTP!!!!!!!


Not faulting you. Just an observation, nothing more. Others will tell you how rough I was on AnnieAsh when she came here, but at the same time, I defended her because I knew where she was coming from...tho her EA was with someone she know in real life, and mine was online. No, my understanding and compassion is not shallow. Not even close. I am, as well, very capable of showing sympathy for cheaters who show true guilt and true remorse and take responsibility for their actions. But, as I said, I will have to look at every one of her posts, including any in other threads, so I have a clearer picture. I will do that after I tend to my real life.

Good night.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello Maricha,



> Well, I'd read more of her story... alas, it was deleted, so I can't go back and familiarize myself with the rest of her story. What I recall from the thread she deleted was PA with drug cartel guy. Husband mad that she endangered them. Drug guy tried blackmail and, I believe tried threats. She went to her parents and he went somewhere else. Can't remember where, sorry to say. They met up at the house a couple days later and had sex. And she was questioning if that is a good thing or bad thing.


Yes! She royally messed up her marriage and she will have to live with this FACT the rest of her life. I would have loved seeing you grill her; it would have woken her up, and just maybe, I would have found some answers to some very old questions of mine. 



> So, looking in her own threads, I think I have background. However, I think there were a few posts missing, possibly in other threads, so I will have to go back and look. No worries, I will get there. Now, all I meant, regarding your defense of Pom was your own words:


That’s partly correct, but you missed out the first sentence; these were my EXACT words: 

_“Pom came here for help, advice, guidance etc. and if you cannot provide any of these and more, do not respond to her thread or posts. Pom's story is VERY CLOSE TO MINE! So LEAVE HER ALONE!Pom's story is VERY CLOSE TO MINE! So LEAVE HER ALONE!”_

I was not the ONLY ONE defending her right to free speech, but I will continue to defend her because some posts were utterly rude to her giving no constructive advice what so ever, and belittling her every attempt, every time she tried to do so.



> Not faulting you. Just an observation, nothing more. Others will tell you how rough I was on AnnieAsh when she came here, but at the same time, I defended her because I knew where she was coming from...tho her EA was with someone she know in real life, and mine was online. No, my understanding and compassion is not shallow. Not even close. I am, as well, very capable of showing sympathy for cheaters who show true guilt and true remorse and take responsibility for their actions. But, as I said, I will have to look at every one of her posts, including any in other threads, so I have a clearer picture. I will do that after I tend to my real life.


AnnieAsh I’ll look her up, thank you! 

Well said! I said the following words to you in my last post:

_ “I guess your understanding and compassion is definitely in the shallow end as I expected.”_

I man enough to know when I’m wrong, so retract the above sentence! You are not shallow! But interesting...

Agreed! You can’t put all cheaters in the same basket and grill them every time and expect the same result nor should one try. All cheaters are different and each cheating story must be dissected, every paragraph, every sentence and every word and then reassembled in reverse until the true story is exposed.

You have defended yourself every time in these last few posts here without hesitation or pause and your words strong with conviction; but where was this strong conviction when you cheated. See my problem with you. You are still a puzzle to me Maricha75, but fear not, I know exactly where to find the answers about you. Your thread and posts on Tam.

I feel as we’ve hijacked Pom’s thread here, so this will be my last post, or unless Pom posts again, which I hope she will, or I'll have to defend her right to free speech on her own thread again.

To Pom, Where ever you are keep posting….

Good afternoon Maricha,


----------

