# Just need a guys point of view...



## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

If a husband (we have been together 20 years, married 11) - says he wants a divorce but has not left the home yet (it has been 3 months) and still sometimes acts like nothing wrong - is he sure he wants a divorce, or could he just be in a state of confusion?

We have had trouble for a few years, and every discussion has ended with him saying "he will try harder" but then him doing nothing.....so I have built a wall admittedly....and probably pushed him away more than I should have.....

But now when I try to talk to him - and be really sincere about my feelings and trying to understand why he wants a divorce he just gets so frustrated with me. All I get is "we are 2 different people". He has NEVER come to me to talk about any issues or why he is unhappy....

He has never been a communicator - but this is too big an issue to not talk to me - is there a way I can get through to him without pissing him off?

I am going to a counselor next week for the first time...to deal with the fact that this may truly be over and to get help indealing with it.....I asked if he will go to a session with me (as suggested by the counselor) - so we can learn to communicate better...he did not say yes or no, but am sure he will not go.

Truth is, I think he has always had an issue with depression - from the day I met him, but he refuses to admit it or get help for it....

Basically, what is the "right" way to deal with someone who may or may not be on the fence about this marriage so we can stop fighting.....we have no definitive divorce plan or plan to work things out and the unknown is killing me....

Clearly my trying to talk is an epic fail....so for you guys out there what do you suggest to a woman who really wants to save her marriage.....

THANK YOU....and of course honesty is welcome...if I should kick him to the curb...I will. I just cannot read a mans mind and cannot figure out why he wont talk.....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So he tells you he wants a divorce and then just sits on his hands?
:scratchhead:

Well, my wife did similar, I just took the lead and boom, had the ball rolling and she moved out. Now we're seperated, but it's a good thing. We're no longer heading for divorce however it seems - not yet. We're seeing how things go.

She was simply hesitant, full of emotion and unsure of what to do.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’ll probably have to kick him off his fence so you get to see which side he falls to, either within the marriage or outside of it.


If he’s truly ambivalent, it happens, your marriage will never work in the way you want it to. With ambivalent people you have to make their mind up for them otherwise it’ll go on forever as the way it is now.


The mind of the ambivalent partner is 50% inside and 50% outside of their marriage. One foot in the front door, the other on the porch. It's crazy making for the partner who's 100% inside the marriage.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

He told me in early October he wanted a divorce...this was after my prodding of him about his line of "trying harder" and why he hasn't....his come back was I want a divorce, we have nothing in common and this isnt working. 

And nothing has been done since....maybe it is wrong of me to "ask" what are we doing.....I am a type A, I like structure and to know what is going on. I will address that with my counselor of course - but his lack of wanting to talk or take action is driving me nuts....I am scared to really kick him out because I think it will be harder to try and work on things...I keep telling myself if he really wanted out he would have left already....but not sure if I am kidding myself....

Just do not know how to talk to him...or do I just not bother...I am trying to change "myself"...even went and got a hair makeover this week to help me self-esteem....so I am trying....

I am glad that you have put a hold on your divorce...I hope it works out for you!!!!!


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

AFEH said:


> You’ll probably have to kick him off his fence so you get to see which side he falls to, either within the marriage or outside of it.


This is a great quote! But how do I deal with that? 

If I kick him out - he may not come back. If I let him stay, I cannot talk to him because he just gets aggravated..

..if I ignore everything, we get along fine (we actually had a nice weekend last weekend, but ruined it on Monday with a talk - and this whole week has been uncomfortable)......but we do laugh and talk sometimes which makes me feel there is something left....or I am trying to convince myself of that....

I would think if a guy really wants out.....he would totally turn off.....is that wrong?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

workingatit said:


> This is a great quote! But how do I deal with that?
> 
> If I kick him out - he may not come back. If I let him stay, I cannot talk to him because he just gets aggravated..
> 
> ...


Not all guys are the same, believe me on that one.

Take me. I was 100% committed to my marriage right up to the moment some 40 years later when I was 100% uncommitted. I switched. As a gave my wife 100% percent of my love, I withdrew that 100% and made it 0%. That’s who I am. I’m either in or I’m out, I don’t do half measures.


Others though will sit on the fence. Until of course they’re pushed off of it. It’s their decision which way they fall, their life. You probably need to both accept and respect that.

My wife chose to leave and she’s stayed outside the marriage. It was a big shock to me and took a long time to get back to some form of normality. But I have learnt that I can live as happily without someone I thought I could never live without as I did when living with her. It’s been a real eye opener for me. In some ways I’m actually happier and that’s a lot to do with “no more trying”.

I also discovered just how exceedingly deceitful my wife was being even while sharing my bed. I think that’s pretty normal for these ambivalent partners. You might want to spy on yours to discover what’s truly going on in his mind and in his world. I was shocked when I found out and I’m still trying to come to terms with it all.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks AFEH....sorry for your not so happy ending, but I am glad you have found some sort of peace.

He did cheat about 9 years ago (and in all honesty it was never dealt with - which has caused me to become very standoffish, so although his affair and his lack of wanting to deal with why the affair happened that is what initiated the issue, my lack of truly letting it go and forgiving perpetuated it, so the point our marriage is in is a 50/50 problem, and I am JUST REALIZING THIS NOW)....

I have done a lot of reading, really read a lot of threads and did some real soul searching and can see how my actions got him to this point of totally tuning me out....

I do not think - actually I would bet my life on it that there is no one right now. I know where he as pretty much all the time and he is home every weekend. Although he hides it I know he is as emotionally distraught as I am, it shows in his face.

I just wish he would talk to me...I feel like that is the real reason for the demise.....and he is just so stuck in the "we have nothing in common phase"....and all I ever reply with is that we have NEVER spent an ounce of time together since the affair....no date nights, no weekends away nothing...only because we did not have childcare....now she is older and we can do things to try to reconnect and he wants to give up...

I am an emotional mess......wondering if I do deserve better or if this is even worth saving....but his anger whenever I talk is just holding everything back....it sucks.....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

File.

That will push him off the fence. Just tell him he obviously couldn't make up his mind, so you decided to help him.

Hand him the paper with rentals that you have circled for him.

You cannot soft-shoe this ... otherwise you will remain exactly where you are, in limbo.

He would rather b!tch about what he wants than actually do anything about it. And here is the thing you need to understand, it may not be because he wants things to work out with you, it is more likely because he is afraid of being alone. And that should make you angry.

Force his hand, and he will be forced to reconsider what exactly he really does want. So will you.

Alternatively, schedule a therapy session, and tell him where and when. If he shows up, that means he wants to work on it. If he doesn't, you know what you need to do.

The important part? 

You need to ACT. Talking about it, now, isn't going to get you anywhere. The entire thing needs a push.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you Deejo,

That is I guess what I needed to hear. Although here come the tears.....I so don't want this, I want the guy I know he can be - like he was last weekend......but I know you are 100% right.

When does the pain stop?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’m with Deejo. Yet it took me a very long time to get there.

Then again I didn’t find out about What is The Marriage Course? | Relationship Central until after we’d separated and I was trying to help out others here.

I know for a fact the truth of what they teach. Have a go at getting your H on the course, if there is still love between the two of you then you may well learn ways to become vulnerable with each other again and begin to open up and let the love flow again.


I’m really serious about this next part. If he wont attend then that really does tell you all you need to know about how he thinks of you and values you not only as his wife but as a human being. And it’s way down low on his value chain and it’s probably as Deejo says he’s afraid of walking out that door because of what’s outside for him. You become the least painful of his choices. Like a default, a Plan B.

It’s not nice facing up to this stuff but sometimes it really does need to be done.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks guys....I think my one issue that has me concerned is that I do think he has a tendency to be "depressed"....he has never been truly happy for as long as I have known him....even his dad used to make comments about how miserable he looked.....

So I think his fear of counseling is not just about us but about dealing with the possibility of really being depressed....which in his eyes is not a possibility and a weakness....and I know I should probably not stay with someone liek this...but "for better or for worse" --- he is not a bad guy on any level.....but he does need counseling for himself before WE can be happy...and I am not sure I can convince him of that....

Going to read that link now.....I have been on here all morning reading an absorbing...I am amazed at how many people get the same crap I am getting.....


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with Deejo to a point.

If you are sure he still wants a divorce, do some quick research regarding how long it will take from filing papers to end. Then download the paperwork, look it over, then have a talk with him. Something like this:

"Here's the paperwork for a divorce. If we file it next week, the hearing will be in four weeks and it will be finalized in May. I think four weeks gives you enough time to find someplace to live. Here's a list of our assets. We'll have to figure out how to split them."

He will realize you are moving on and will either decide to work on the marriage or split.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks Chris, I did that Sunday...showed him online that we need to be legally separated for 18 months before we can file in our state....did not seem to motivate him much this week one way or another....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

To be clear, filing is one option ... and one that you should not take unless you know you are prepared to follow through. It's ok if you aren't.

I think what you also need to understand is that there are no time limits on these things.

I was separated for 3 years ... I hoped that we could reconcile. But I also had very firm boundaries about what would be required to do so. My ex made several half-hearted attempts but it became clear that we couldn't get to where we both wanted to be.

It ain't over til it's over. And when that point comes, you will see it with clarity.

But ... I was the engine for all of it. I moved out. I found the mediator, made the appointments. Eventually, we got to the place where I said, "If you want this, you need to take some responsibility in it." I stopped making any of the appointments ... and thus we were in limbo for another year and a half.

If your husband suffers from depression, (which his behavior and inaction sounds VERY much like) you will need to be strong enough for the both of you. 

Something needs to happen. And you probably know that he either cannot or will not be the one to make it happen.

My best suggestion is to try the therapy piece. That makes him directly accountable for what happens next.

As for the pain? You need to trust and know that there is 'another side' from what you feel now. I realize it doesn't look that way. 

I have very, very fond memories of life with my wife. But the reality of where we were, and how we were conducting our lives and marriage had gone completely off the rails. You need to be able to clearly see and deal with, where things are now, rather than focusing on the way they used to be.

Even if your husband forgoes counseling, I would strongly urge you to go for yourself.

Best wishes.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Deejo,

THANK YOU! I am not ready to file. 

I have been known in the past to make rash decisions and say I was going to do things I did not follow through on, and I know that is something he gets frustrated with me for (my confusion is usually brought on by his actions though, he does not see that...)...

I know even if he moves out, it will be up to me to make things happen. If he does move out, then I will absolutely file for divorce at that point and get the mediator. We already said we will do this amicably. 

Once he is gone, I will move on and accept and there will be no coming back. Either he works with me now while he is still here or it is done - those are MY terms. 

Hearing that there is a happy ending for some many after divorce has been beneficial. I do not know many divorced people so it is hard to imagine that I may find TRUE happiness again. Honestly, I am not sure I really have ever had that with my husband, so I guess it is hard to imagine that it can really exist. But there is 20 years behind us, a young daughter and the ability to still sometimes enjoy each other - and I hate seeing that end.

I am praying he will find the strength to do the counselor with me...next week is JUST FOR ME to start dealing with the issues I know I have from my childhood.....which I know will help me in the end....

Even the counselor has an inkling he is depressed.....of course based only what I told her....but I was totally honest with her...I truly care about him and want him happy - but I know I cannot make him get help....

Thank you so much, this has been incredibly helpful......


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

One things for sure, unless you two do the work required to get his affair well and truly sorted, it will always sit between you in your marriage. Much like a cancerous growth just eating away.


That affair although years ago will eat away at you both in the present and in the future. It needs resolving, the wounds need healing.

Many marriages fail due to resentment issues. You cannot truly give of your love or truly receive love while you are bitter and resentful. Healing begins and ends with forgiveness, but you must both work on it together, like a team. It’s one of the reasons I referred you to The Marriage Course. Understand each other’s needs

Communicate more effectively
Grow closer through resolving conflict
*Heal the ways you’ve hurt each other*
Recognise how your upbringing affects your relationship
Improve relationships with parents and in-laws
Develop greater sexual intimacy
Discover each other’s love languages and much, much more!

What is The Marriage Course? | Relationship Central


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

So a little update - I am more confused than ever and am not sure what the next step for me should be -- any and all feedback is ever so appreciated.....

Since I last posted we have gotten along wonderfully and had a great holiday surprisingly - the Friday before Christmas he actually texted me on the way home from work to see if I wanted to meet for drinks...my daughter had a party so I jumped on that...it was only 2 hours but we had such a great time (mind you we had not been out alone in years).....then he started asking for me to sit with them at night instead of going upstairs.....little things that he has not done in years ----- but the uncertainty of it all is making me crazy....I do not want to talk about things b/c we are getting along so well....

I actually made the mistake of briefly asking him last night where we were at and he just said he thinks we are best as friends (when I asked him straight out if he was sure he wanted to divorce, he evaded the question completely)......so I am totally confused and really need to make the decision to kick him out - but my heart says no way - especially when I see how good we can get along when I let go of MY anger about the past, which is what I have been doing.....(and no, we have not had sex at all....we have been flirting and slightly physical but that is all.) - he actually made a comment last night that he does not like that I think I can fix things with sex, but the truth is I just want to have sex because I have been finding him much more attractive since he has been so great to be with..

......we have not discussed divorce, separation or seeing a counselor.....so we live in limbo.....but with him finally showing a TOUCH of effort.....more than he has in years.....it makes me want this even more....

But anytime I try to talk to him, he just shuts down.....I am guessing he is as confused as I am maybe?!?

I have scheduled a counseling session for me, and asked if he will come to one with me, he did not say yes or no - but we will see. (He had asked me to go over a year ago and I said no since I thought he was the one who needed counseling for depression - which I still do), but I think he is trying ot play "hardball" since I said no.....childish I know, but we have both done our childish things....

What do I do from here....clearly I cannot initiate sex since he sees that as an issue of control....do I just continue to live day to day the way we have been with all this uncertainty - is that what others who have successfully put off a divorce have done, or do I take the risk and kick him out even though my heart does not want that at all.....

Again, I thank everyone for their feedback...this is the hardest thing to deal with and i just want to feel good again.....so unsure of the route that will get me there though....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The only vehicle to get you there is going to be you.

Enjoy those moments for what they are, but recognize that they are 'moments' within a much larger, and more dysfunctional framework.

No disrespect intended, but it sounds like you are fearful to 'do' just about anything ... because you are afraid of losing him.

That is an awful place to be. You are ceding entirely, the course of your own life to someone that doesn't know what he wants.

You don't need to force anything, but you MUST be able to find a way to reconcile for yourself, the choices YOU are making.

You can't leave this in his hands, you will go crazy. Your anger, frustration, and despair will only continue to grow.

Find something in your life that gives you satisfaction, outside the scope of your relationship. Focus on it. Be upbeat. Leave discussions about the relationship off the table. Just live.

And if you can't do that ... then you need to cut him loose so that you both can start moving on.

Don't 'ask' him if he can, wants to, or will, go to therapy. Step up. Schedule an appointment with the therapist for the two of you ... eventually. Tell him you have scheduled an appointment for both of you, and tell him the date and time. That's it.

If he gives some excuse about not knowing if he can make it, simply repeat the date and time. Don't engage in a conversation.

Whether or not he chooses to show up to a counseling session to save his marriage, implicitly tells you ... if he wants to save his marriage.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Deejo your words made me cry. 

That is exactly what I need to hear I guess as bad as it hurt. 

And you are right, I am "fearful" because I truly love this man and do not want to see 20 years thrown down the drain. When I try to imagine my life without him I cannot - so it makes me look at every little thing he does as a positive thing and that he wants it to work....but his words speak differently....

Your advice is dead on....now to find the strength to do what you are suggesting....right now I want to lie in bed and cry.....I have no motivation at all to do anything......this is what I am finding to be the hardest part.....

THANK YOU for a great post......


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Question about the 180, which I am trying to do, but am little confused as to how to properly handle, especially with a child involved! 

I have been just going on about my day since my last post, been avoiding any conversations at all about "us" and am HONESTLY in a bit of a better place about us - meaning if we divorce I know I will be OK - he has said so many things to hurt me and while I do not know what is true or what is not, I am realizing I deserve more. But when he is the guy I fell in love with I really want this to work. But I have been in a much better mood since realizing I really may have to let this go and move on. 

He has been gone for the last few days for business - I have had no contact with him, but he does call our daughter every night.

Before he left he wanted to go to dinner (he was bored), I said no you two go - they did not go. He asked me to sit with them the day before he left...I said no.....he said why not, I said I do not want to.

So my question with the 180 - when they ASK you to do things (and I am curious as to why he is even asking since he wants a divorce)...should you do them? 

I WANT to go to dinner....I WANT to sit with them...and I feel like if I say no all the time he will think I am still the same person i have been (I have missed lots of things with them because of my bitterness about where we have been the last couple of years)...and he will think I really do not want to be with him. So I feel like the 180 in some ways will emphasize his frustration with me not doing things with them....I also know my daughter wants me to do things with them and do not want to hurt her....

I did explain at one point a week or two ago that being with him is hard...so I do not want to do things with him at this point. He thinks that is childish.

So he is do back in a couple of days and am wondering what my best course of action is. 

I DO want this to work. He is still here. We still talk at the end of the day - although sometimes it is awkward. We do not fight. I believe we are still physically attracted to each other. But there is so much hurt and anger about the past that he cannot get past - and I am TRYING to.

I still do not know what he is doing in regards to moving out or anything either, but have decided to not push the issue, but will live my life as I would whether he is here or not. At this point, we are getting along so I am leaving it alone. He did admit in a talk last week that it would be hard to leave....I am guessing it is only because he does not want to leave our daughter...they are incredibly attached.....

So do I totally not do things with him - even if he asks? 

Any advice?

I have read until I am blue in the face but still feel confused about how to do a 180 and detach when I think my detach in the past is part of the problem we have had - and how do you detach when a child is involved. 

Thank you again for any help and/or suggestions.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Deejo said:


> File.


Yes, file. That will force a decision.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

Why be so quick to file when so many others recommend 180? I am not sure I want to file just yet....not at that point. 

I have learned to realize what I HAVE DONE WRONG in the relationship and am trying to change those things.....and do not just want to throw 20 years away that quickly.....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Short answer is you can say 'yes'. The important part is not reading into the act. Its about your level of engagement and investment in any given interaction.

Don't put yourself in or avoid any circumstances that compromise your objective of detachment or that are fundamentally inconsistent with your values.


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

You are good! That is my issue - I always "read into things" --- it is the one thing about me he cannot stand. I do have a bad tendency to tell him what i think he is thinking....but its because he does not tell me. 

But thank you...this makes sense.....I have to draw the line basically between friend and wife it seems, which will be hard....

This is so incredibly difficult....and confusing.....


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

So last night I told him he needed to leave. He left this morning for work and said he would be back over the weekend to pick up more stuff. That was it.

I believe with all my heart that he is confused. I feel like he has done everything he can to push me away and in turn trying to get me to force him out - which I did.

So now what?

Do I not call, text or email ever? 

My concern is that given I think he is truly depressed and has NO ONE to turn to and refuses to get help, I am afraid for him to be alone to make even bigger regrets in life. As angry, upset and disappointed as i am I do want him to know I am here for him. 

Do I want this to work? Yes, but not unless he figures out what he needs to do to make HIM happy. I do not know if he will ever do that. 

I am working on me...I will start living my life my way.....

But also want to know how to properly deal with him while he is not in the home. 

I think as of now we both are on the same plane thinking that a divorce is the only option.....my feelings come more from his continued lack of efforts to make this work....than a true want to end this. 

Any advice for someone who is completely lost?

He is out, at my request....now what.....


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