# Our Boundaries to having a sucessful, long-term traditional marriage



## BootsAndJeans

...


----------



## BeyondRepair007

BootsAndJeans said:


> I just wanted to discuss the ways that my wife and I have developed boundaries / rules /guidelines that I think have contributed to our 38+ years of marriage.
> 
> We married as teenagers (19 & 18), and as I have come to learn, at least that my brain was not fully formed as a male. Some of these things we had from religious and other trainings (Scouts, etc.), and some of them we learned over the years. A little background is beneficial here. My wife was raised in a stable, nuclear family with a strong moral compass and little to no dysfunction. I, on the other hand, was raised in a broken, dysfunctional family, which was plagued by alcoholism, emotional, physical and sexual abuse. I grew up with a mother who was out of control and was diagnosed when I was an adult, as being Bi-Polar. I think I felt drawn as much to my wife's family and to her, I sought not only love and acceptance, but also peace. It has taken me many years to overcome most of the effects of the trauma I grew up with. My wife is a saint for standing by my side and supporting me. I was the eldest sibling, and as such grew up being the psuedo-parent and developed a trait of being a fixer.
> 
> Anyway, here are some of our basics:
> 
> 1. Neither of us has any close personal friends of the same gender that we hang with individually or communicate with individually. This includes former classmates, boy friends / girl friends, etc.
> 
> 2. Neither of us is willing to be alone with unrelated person of the other gender. We will actively decline and leave if needed.
> 
> 3. I had to learn that I cannot be the "White Knight" and come to the rescue of others, particularly women, even though my natural tendency was to try and do so. This also applies to family members. I mean, I am a guy who will fix someone's car, but I am not qualified to fix their lives, relationships, etc. My "White Knightsm", if that is a proper term, also applies to male friends and volunteer organizations (VFW, Masons, etc.). I, with my wife's help, have learned to say no, even if my inclination is to try. My participation is restricted, thought-out and proportional. This was the hardest thing for me to learn. The potential to get emotionally invested is a great risk, especially with co-workers, friends etc. that could be irregular.
> 
> 4. We have a completely transparency policy with each other. We both are required to secure our phones by our employers (Outlook/Email security). However, we know each others passcodes and have our biometrics on each others phones. This applies to our other electronic devices and all email, messaging and social media accounts (I do not use social media at all, my wife is required to for her job). I have full access to her medical records and she to mine. Basically the only privacy we demand, is when we defecate.
> 
> 5. I used to drink socially and was only drunk once in the military, my wife has never tasted alcohol, and neither have ever done drugs. That being said, we do not and have never gone to bars, honky-tonks, or wild parties. As a man, I do not go to strip clubs, etc. We have a good life and do not need this type of thing in our lives. It just is not a thing either one of us has ever desired.
> 
> 6. We agree to be respectful to each other when we have a disagreement or argument. I have never called my wife a foul name and she has never called me one. I learned early to walk away when I got angry and she learned to let me simmer down. I have not been this way for at least twenty years now, especially once I got my combat PTSD treated.
> 
> 7. We do not discuss issues of our marriage , particularly intimacy with other people outside our marriage, with the exception of professionals. That means our intimate life is not for friends or family.
> 
> 8. We always tried to spend uninterrupted time with each other and talk, each day and as the kids grew up and left, this has gotten easier.
> 
> 9. At 57 & 56 years of age, we try to schedule at least one date every week, when possible. Sometimes work or other issues prevent it, but we probably make 98% of the goal. We participate in each other's hobbies and interests, some more than others, some less. I am not big on crocheting, she's not big on hunting.
> 
> 10. We call or text each other a few times a day, much like passing notes when we were kids.
> 
> Now for my humorous rules for a good & long marriage:
> 
> A. Happy wife, happy life
> 
> B. You're right , I'm wrong dear
> 
> C. It's easier to ask forgiveness, than permission AND
> 
> D. When the wife says "I've been thinking", I just go ahead and put my work clothes on, because I am going to be digging, building or moving something.
> 
> PS: Never let your wife discover Pinterest!


I love your list, and have many of those same points in my own marriage.

Well done and congratulations on a happy marriage!

🤣 at that funny list.


----------



## Sophiadeb

I love your list!
Now that i am a grown woman and going through a phase, i understand why such a list is important.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Sophiadeb said:


> I love your list!
> Now that i am a grown woman and going through a phase, i understand why such a list is important.


I really wish it was required to go through a class before getting married.

Being happily married takes communication, work, dedication, compromise and boundaries.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I like the list. Much of it fits with us too. Like you we got married young 18/21. We passed lots of notes when I was in HS too. My wife still has most of them. I had pretty much zero thoughts about boundaries, or at least articulating them when we got married. Neither of us were experienced enough in relationships to establish boundaries up front. The only thing we really said explicitly is don't cheat on me. All the other boundaries and nuances of what not cheating means just kind of happened organically. So, to some degree we got very lucky that as time went by we always stayed on the same page. Multiple times opportunities arose over the years where there have been situations that could have violated the boundaries we have today, but we've both proven that we make the right choice. Even when not stated explicitly. It is only after many years of marriage that I can clearly articulate those boundaries.

What are your thoughts about a partner that needs a list like this to do what is right for the marriage vs them just innately knowing all this is the right thing to do?


----------



## BootsAndJeans

BigDaddyNY said:


> I like the list. Much of it fits with us too. Like you we got married young 18/21. We passed lots of notes when I was in HS too. My wife still has most of them. I had pretty much zero thoughts about boundaries, or at least articulating them when we got married. Neither of us were experienced enough in relationships to establish boundaries up front. The only thing we really said explicitly is don't cheat on me. All the other boundaries and nuances of what not cheating means just kind of happened organically. So, to some degree we got very lucky that as time went by we always stayed on the same page. Multiple times opportunities arose over the years where there have been situations that could have violated the boundaries we have today, but we've both proven that we make the right choice. Even when not stated explicitly. It is only after many years of marriage that I can clearly articulate those boundaries.
> 
> What are your thoughts about a partner that needs a list like this to do what is right for the marriage vs them just innately knowing all this is the right thing to do?


I think it is a good thing. We actually attended classes for married people, some were mixed and some were for the husbands or just the wives. 

Like you guys @BigDaddyNY , we got married young. I had no good role models of how a happy, functional marriage worked. My wife was much more together. 

A lot of things that people do that are bad, in marriage or otherwise, I truly believe kind of creep up on people, like the boiling a frog analogy.

For instance, the whole issue of "Not Just Friends", it is pernicious and it take understanding to deal with it.

I honestly believe there should be a mandatory class before people get married and before they make babies.

I mean, for almost all people....they understand that stealing, murder, adultery, lying, etc are bad. The problems happens when rationalization and emotions kick in. 

I hope I make some kind of sense.


----------



## Julie's Husband

BootsAndJeans said:


> I had no good role models of how a happy, functional marriage worked. My wife was much more together.


About 3 months into our marriage while my wife was pregnant with our daughter, a friend of hers in Germany sent his daughter over to stay with us for the Summer. He was divorced from the girl's mother and wanted her to see how a real family functions. I think it was a positive experience for her.


----------



## Mr.Married

I like your list and my wife and I were married young as well. I however was a bit of a rebel in my younger years and did plenty drinking, some drugs, partying, and even been to jail. However I’ve always been loyal to my wife.

On another note there are parts of your list that I can say caused some ripples in our marriage. The happy wife happy life and the yes dear mantra didn’t work worth a poop and all that accommodation did nothing but cause an imbalance. I respect my wife and want her to have a great life but there are limits to that power grab and I had to drop a bomb to straighten it out. We are both much happier these days and I understand that is a concept many men will never grasp. Just to be clear I’m not saying that is necessary a problem…. Obviously your marriage works perfectly for you and it would be very easy to find men that would like to be in your shoes.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Mr.Married said:


> On another note there are parts of your list that I can say caused some ripples in our marriage. The happy wife happy life and the yes dear mantra didn’t work worth a poop and all that accommodation did nothing but cause an imbalance. I respect my wife and want her to have a great life but there are limits to that power grab and I had to drop a bomb to straighten it out. We are both much happier these days and I understand that is a concept many men will never grasp. Just to be clear I’m not saying that is necessary a problem…. Obviously your marriage works perfectly for you and it would be very easy to find men that would like to be in your shoes.


That is why I said "Now my humorous ones". These are just me teasing my wife. In fact, we live by "Happy Spouse - Happy House" as an overarching thing.

In near 40 years of being together, we have only had maybe 10 serious arguments/issues. Most of those were when we were in our 20's. I had a PTSD collapse in my thirties, but we worked through it. Also, in out thirties, we had a serious issue about her being in "Mommy Mode" and not being my wife, in the Biblical sense. I moved out and told her if she wanted a husband I would come back, if not, I was not interested in being her roommate-friend. There were two times in our marriage, which were, if fault would be assigned, generated by her. The other ones were me dealing with the traumas of my childhood and PTSD.

My wife and I have learned to communicate over the years, just a part of growing up. We both really took our vows seriously and that means to us, working through issues to have a happy marriage.


----------



## Mr.Married

We had mommy-mode issues as well. Actually that was the biggest issue we ever had. In retrospect I probably should have handled it the way you did but instead tried all the explanation and then growing distant BS. After that I just dropped the bomb. It got on tracy real fast after that. I could have saved myself a lot of time had I just done what you did.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Mr.Married said:


> We had mommy-mode issues as well. Actually that was the biggest issue we ever had. In retrospect I probably should have handled it the way you did but instead tried all the explanation and then growing distant BS. After that I just dropped the bomb. It got on tracy real fast after that. I could have saved myself a lot of time had I just done what you did.


I let it go on for a year and got frustrated, hurt feelings and then angry. I have learned to deal with issues immediately now.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

BootsAndJeans said:


> I think it is a good thing. We actually attended classes for married people, some were mixed and some were for the husbands or just the wives.
> 
> Like you guys @BigDaddyNY , we got married young. I had no good role models of how a happy, functional marriage worked. My wife was much more together.
> 
> A lot of things that people do that are bad, in marriage or otherwise, I truly believe kind of creep up on people, like the boiling a frog analogy.
> 
> For instance, the whole issue of "Not Just Friends", it is pernicious and it take understanding to deal with it.
> 
> I honestly believe there should be a mandatory class before people get married and before they make babies.
> 
> I mean, for almost all people....they understand that stealing, murder, adultery, lying, etc are bad. The problems happens when rationalization and emotions kick in.
> 
> I hope I make some kind of sense.


It does make sense. The creeping up thing is so true. It is amazing how quickly your sensitivity to certain things gets kind of numbed. Its like seeing something brutally violent the first time and having to look away. By the 100th time it doesn't phase you anymore. 

I've experienced it a little in online gaming with some type of team or clan chat. It was amazing how easily the chats would go from the game, to slightly personal, to too personal, to sexual innuendo. I knew better than to get involved in that and eventually gave it up because it became so prevalent. I've also mentioned a story about my wife going to lunch solo with a male colleague and immediately being not comfortable with it and told him they can't do it again without the rest of the group. Neither my wife nor I ever talked about either of those things prior, yet we both shut it down on our own. 

What I was wondering about is why does it seem some people innately react that way while others see no issue with it? Does the fact that you have to explicitly tell your partner this is what you expect mean they have some incompatibility?

My wife and I were pretty lucky that we both had parents in a good and loving marriage. I witnessed it through their actions, but also learned a lot from my mom. My dad didn't really talk about relationships much, but my mom did bring it up from time to time. Nothing like the detail of your list. More just, treat your girl with respect and love. At one point once my future wife and I were getting serious my mom straight up told me, "if you hurt her I will beat the crap out of you." Half joking, half serous of course. I think that has been my M.O. since then. If I think something will hurt my wife I stay away.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

...


----------



## As'laDain

my wife and I... 

have almost none of those rules. discussing work is mostly illegal, we spend months away from each other on a regular basis, spend time with unrelated people of the opposite gender on a regular basis, etc. 

we don't talk much about our intimate lives with others either though, cuz uh... why would we?

we don't drink much any more, but we used to.

when I retire though, we plan on starting a homestead and a non-profit organization to help a specific population, so I guess we will be spending more time with each other then. 

it works for us.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

As'laDain said:


> my wife and I...
> 
> have almost none of those rules. discussing work is mostly illegal, we spend months away from each other on a regular basis, spend time with unrelated people of the opposite gender on a regular basis, etc.
> 
> we don't talk much about our intimate lives with others either though, cuz uh... why would we?
> 
> we don't drink much any more, but we used to.
> 
> when I retire though, we plan on starting a homestead and a non-profit organization to help a specific population, so I guess we will be spending more time with each other then.
> 
> it works for us.


You and your wife are also in an open and polyamorous relationship though, correct?


----------



## As'laDain

BigDaddyNY said:


> You and your wife are also in an open and polyamorous relationship though, correct?


half yes half no. we are polyamorous, but we are not in an open relationship.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

As'laDain said:


> my wife and I...
> 
> have almost none of those rules. discussing work is mostly illegal, we spend months away from each other on a regular basis, spend time with unrelated people of the opposite gender on a regular basis, etc.
> 
> we don't talk much about our intimate lives with others either though, cuz uh... why would we?
> 
> we don't drink much any more, but we used to.
> 
> when I retire though, we plan on starting a homestead and a non-profit organization to help a specific population, so I guess we will be spending more time with each other then.
> 
> it works for us.


There, I changed the title to long-term traditional marriage


----------



## As'laDain

in large part, I married my wife because she was willing to fight me.

I couldn't have fallen in love with her without that.

but she was willing to work with me as well. couldn't have fallen in love with her without that too.


----------



## As'laDain

BootsAndJeans said:


> There, I changed the title to long-term traditional marriage


eh, my marriage type goes back thousands of years, so it's pretty traditional.


----------



## As'laDain

honestly, I'm not sure if I could be married very many other people. I legally can't tell my wife about my day most of the time. 

and I'm always gone. we have been separated for almost a combined decade of our marriage. so we accept what it is and find ways to be happy anyway. sometimes that is buying game consoles so that we can play video games together. sometimes that is sexting the hell out of each other. sometimes it's making plans and getting excited about my retirement. 

whatever the case, we are partners and we will continue to be partners until one of us dies.


----------



## Personal

BootsAndJeans said:


> I just wanted to discuss the ways that my wife and I have developed boundaries / rules /guidelines that I think have contributed to our 38+ years of marriage.


I think it's terrific that you're happy in your 38+ year marriage, and that your approach to your marriage works for you.

As for myself, my wife and I got married (my second marriage, her first), when I was a few months shy of 28 and she was a few months shy of 29. All up, we've been together for 26 years and seven months, inclusive of our to date 23 year and six month long (monogamous) marriage. Plus like plenty of others, my wife and I have also experienced many challenges as well.

That said, thanks for sharing the basics of what works for you and your wife.

Given that, the following is some of what works very well for us.

1. Both of us have some personal friends of the opposite gender that we will sometimes hang with individually or communicate with individually. This includes some former classmates. workmates and some of my ex-girlfriends.

2. Both of us are willing to be alone with an unrelated person regardless of their gender, most certainly in workplace settings and in some social settings as well.

3. My wife and I do help people, yet there are also times when we choose not to. Doing either is not something we struggle with. That said we are emotionally invested in our friends, since if we weren't, they wouldn't be our friends.

4, My wife and I remain autonomous individuals, who are free to choose what we share and what we don't with each other. We do have access to each others devices both portable and desktop based. Yet we still have our own privacy and my wife even keeps diaries which I do not read. Plus for 4 years of my life (through the first years of our marriage when I was often away), my work required me to not tell my wife much of anything that I did at work, and it mostly remains thus to this day, regarding that period. While today, we have privacy from each other, whenever we want it. And don't have that privacy, when we don't want it.

5. My wife and I sometimes drink alcohol socially and while we are out alone with each other. I have been drunk many times, although through the last two decades that has been a very rare thing. That said we have gone to pubs, clubs and wild parties. I also had to look up "honky tonk", so nope on that. As a man, it has been more than 30 years since I have visited a strip club (something I have done about 3x in my life). That said I draw and paint pictures of naked men and women, in person either in group settings or private sessions. I have also photographed naked women as well. My wife also poses for me, and encourages me to spend more time with women and men who take their clothes off for art, to encourage me to create more nude and erotic art. We have a good life as well, and we enjoy sharing such things in our life.

6. My wife and I do conflict with each other honestly, we are not conflict avoidant and have used expletives for emphasis when we feel it has been warranted.

7. Most of our friends and family don't know about our intimate marital life. That said we have some friends who know some stuff. While we also have no prohibitions on what we choose to tell, or choose not to tell our friends and or family. That said we will sometimes discuss with each other, what we will or won't share with some people.

8. Like you, my wife and I try to spend time alone together each day when we're together. To walk, hangout, talk, watch, listen, touch, pose, sketch, film, photograph, flash, flirt, fondle and fornicate, amongst all of the other fun things that we like to share.

9. At 51 (me) & 52 (her) years of age, we don't endevour to schedule dates at least once a week. That said we do often go out together when we can alone, and also when we can we try to go away alone together as often as we can as well. We don't really participate in each others hobbies at all, 'cause hers are so incredibly boring. Yet we do share several common interests and activities, so there is that.

10. We usually talk to each other at least once a day on the phone, when we are apart from each other through work, while we seldom ever text each other much at all. While outside of that, we talk to each other when we're together.



> A. Happy wife, happy life
> 
> B. You're right , I'm wrong dear


Now I understand that you wrote the above two points with humour in mind. Yet it can't hurt saying that both my wife and I think, the approach those sayings suggest, tends to be rather corrosive to sharing healthy relationships. Since the "happy wife, happy life" schtick is founded upon people pleasing at one's own expense.

While the "you're right, I'm wrong dear" thing, is also people pleasing nonsense, that is often patronising as well. And both of those sayings, are founded upon unhealthy conflict avoidance. Not forgetting that those who ply that nonsense, are often doing so against what they really want and desire.

Likewise my wife dumped some guys left right and centre, when they showed such tendencies. Since she felt it was impossible to respect them, when they evidently had little respect for themselves. Since they were inclined to sacrifice their own wants and desires, to please her at their own expense.

Also considering all of the above (see below).



BootsAndJeans said:


> I honestly believe there should be a mandatory class before people get married and before they make babies.


Are you really sure that mandatory marriage classes and all the rest is a good idea? Since not all people are the same, and not all relationships work well in the same way.

Would you still be keen on the idea, that people should be required to attend mandatory marriage classes. If either my successful marriage, or @As'laDain's successful marriage, was the chosen model to be taught in compulsory marriage classes?

And on that, if As'laDain's way or mine, was the model that was taught in mandatory classes, I suspect you wouldn't like that at all. So perhaps we are all better off, in finding our own way (without mandatory classes) and being ourselves. Instead of having to be taught how to be married.


----------



## Laurentium

As'laDain said:


> when I retire though, we plan on starting a homestead and a non-profit organization to help a specific population, so I guess we will be spending more time with each other then.


I really hope that goes well.

Relevant to the thread topic, in a way: will you set some kind of rules (boundaries) with your guests?


----------



## BootsAndJeans

[...


----------



## LisaDiane

BootsAndJeans said:


> @Personal
> 
> 
> 
> Understand, I am speaking from a traditionl, western Judeo-Christian perspective.
> 
> From your posts, you are either involved in or considering sexual relationships outside of matirtal bonds. Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> As for As'laDain, I have no idea, I ignored him/her/it a along time ago.
> 
> I have made absoluetly no secret that my wife and I are Christians and conform to the traditional, Judeo-Christian concept of marriage of one man and one woman.
> 
> Perhaps our way of life and marriage is becoming a relic, but that is okay.
> 
> My post on how we have a had a long-term marriage, with dealing with the issues that happen in most marraiges, obviously does not apply to you or other people involved in non-monogamy.
> 
> So exactly, why do you and other (polyamorous, swingers, etc.) feel a need to comment on my post?
> 
> Sorry, but as I have stated before, I find it interesting, that people involved in ENM, polyamory, swinging, same-sex realtionships, etc., feel the need to not only explain their lifestyles, but want others who have moral and ethical issues with said lifestyles, to accept and celebrate it. Honestly, I can care less what other adults do in the privacy of their own lives.
> 
> Have a nice day.


You are WRONG....he has never said he is involved in or even considering sexual relationships outside of his marriage. He even said clearly in his post that you quoted that they are, and always have been, monogamous.


Personal said:


> I think it's terrific that you're happy in your 38+ year marriage, and that your approach to your marriage works for you.
> 
> As for myself, my wife and I got married (my second marriage, her first), when I was a few months shy of 28 and she was a few months shy of 29. *All up, we've been together for 26 years and seven months, inclusive of our to date 23 year and six month long (monogamous) marriage.* Plus like plenty of others, my wife and I have also experienced many challenges as well.
> 
> That said, thanks for sharing the basics of what works for you and your wife.


I guess I'm not sure why you wouldn't welcome hearing from many other perspectives about what works for other couples, since that is what makes life interesting and enriching. Your comment sounded condescending and dismissive, which I can't understand because he was very respectful and welcoming of your differences, he wasn't being offensive at all...however you chose to take offense.

Also, being that this is a public, open forum, why would you think other members wouldn't add their input on any thread that interested them?


----------



## LisaDiane

Mr.Married said:


> We had mommy-mode issues as well. Actually that was the biggest issue we ever had. In retrospect I probably should have handled it the way you did but instead tried all the explanation and then growing distant BS. After that I just dropped the bomb. It got on tracy real fast after that. I could have saved myself a lot of time had I just done what you did.


I wonder if the reason some marriages are unhappy isn't because of a lack of boundaries, but because of a lack of taking swift, firm action when their partner violates the boundaries that they do have.

Even the clearest, strongest boundaries are meaningless if we are afraid to follow through with consequences when someone disregards them (which goes for all relationships, not just romantic/marriage).


----------



## BigDaddyNY

LisaDiane said:


> I wonder if the reason some marriages are unhappy isn't because of a lack of boundaries, but because of a lack of taking swift, firm action when their partner violates the boundaries that they do have.
> 
> Even the clearest, strongest boundaries are meaningless if we are afraid to follow through with consequences when someone disregards them (which goes for all relationships, not just romantic/marriage).


This is a good point. I would say it is likely a combination of the two, unstated boundaries and not saying anything when the line is crossed in your mind. Some people just don't want to rock the boat, even if doing so could save the boat from sinking.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Personal said:


> I think it's terrific that you're happy in your 38+ year marriage, and that your approach to your marriage works for you.
> 
> As for myself, my wife and I got married (my second marriage, her first), when I was a few months shy of 28 and she was a few months shy of 29. All up, we've been together for 26 years and seven months, inclusive of our to date 23 year and six month long (monogamous) marriage. Plus like plenty of others, my wife and I have also experienced many challenges as well.
> 
> That said, thanks for sharing the basics of what works for you and your wife.
> 
> Given that, the following is some of what works very well for us.
> 
> 1. Both of us have some personal friends of the opposite gender that we will sometimes hang with individually or communicate with individually. This includes some former classmates. workmates and some of my ex-girlfriends.
> 
> 2. Both of us are willing to be alone with an unrelated person regardless of their gender, most certainly in workplace settings and in some social settings as well.
> 
> 3. My wife and I do help people, yet there are also times when we choose not to. Doing either is not something we struggle with. That said we are emotionally invested in our friends, since if we weren't, they wouldn't be our friends.
> 
> 4, My wife and I remain autonomous individuals, who are free to choose what we share and what we don't with each other. We do have access to each others devices both portable and desktop based. Yet we still have our own privacy and my wife even keeps diaries which I do not read. Plus for 4 years of my life (through the first years of our marriage when I was often away), my work required me to not tell my wife much of anything that I did at work, and it mostly remains thus to this day, regarding that period. While today, we have privacy from each other, whenever we want it. And don't have that privacy, when we don't want it.
> 
> 5. My wife and I sometimes drink alcohol socially and while we are out alone with each other. I have been drunk many times, although through the last two decades that has been a very rare thing. That said we have gone to pubs, clubs and wild parties. I also had to look up "honky tonk", so nope on that. As a man, it has been more than 30 years since I have visited a strip club (something I have done about 3x in my life). That said I draw and paint pictures of naked men and women, in person either in group settings or private sessions. I have also photographed naked women as well. My wife also poses for me, and encourages me to spend more time with women and men who take their clothes off for art, to encourage me to create more nude and erotic art. We have a good life as well, and we enjoy sharing such things in our life.
> 
> 6. My wife and I do conflict with each other honestly, we are not conflict avoidant and have used expletives for emphasis when we feel it has been warranted.
> 
> 7. Most of our friends and family don't know about our intimate marital life. That said we have some friends who know some stuff. While we also have no prohibitions on what we choose to tell, or choose not to tell our friends and or family. That said we will sometimes discuss with each other, what we will or won't share with some people.
> 
> 8. Like you, my wife and I try to spend time alone together each day when we're together. To walk, hangout, talk, watch, listen, touch, pose, sketch, film, photograph, flash, flirt, fondle and fornicate, amongst all of the other fun things that we like to share.
> 
> 9. At 51 (me) & 52 (her) years of age, we don't endevour to schedule dates at least once a week. That said we do often go out together when we can alone, and also when we can we try to go away alone together as often as we can as well. We don't really participate in each others hobbies at all, 'cause hers are so incredibly boring. Yet we do share several common interests and activities, so there is that.
> 
> 10. We usually talk to each other at least once a day on the phone, when we are apart from each other through work, while we seldom ever text each other much at all. While outside of that, we talk to each other when we're together.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I understand that you wrote the above two points with humour in mind. Yet it can't hurt saying that both my wife and I think, the approach those sayings suggest, tends to be rather corrosive to sharing healthy relationships. Since the "happy wife, happy life" schtick is founded upon people pleasing at one's own expense.
> 
> While the "you're right, I'm wrong dear" thing, is also people pleasing nonsense, that is often patronising as well. And both of those sayings, are founded upon unhealthy conflict avoidance. Not forgetting that those who ply that nonsense, are often doing so against what they really want and desire.
> 
> Likewise my wife dumped some guys left right and centre, when they showed such tendencies. Since she felt it was impossible to respect them, when they evidently had little respect for themselves. Since they were inclined to sacrifice their own wants and desires, to please her at their own expense.
> 
> Also considering all of the above (see below).
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really sure that mandatory marriage classes and all the rest is a good idea? Since not all people are the same, and not all relationships work well in the same way.
> 
> Would you still be keen on the idea, that people should be required to attend mandatory marriage classes. If either my successful marriage, or @As'laDain's successful marriage, was the chosen model to be taught in compulsory marriage classes?
> 
> And on that, if As'laDain's way or mine, was the model that was taught in mandatory classes, I suspect you wouldn't like that at all. So perhaps we are all better off, in finding our own way (without mandatory classes) and being ourselves. Instead of having to be taught how to be married.


My take on all this is you and your wife have a much different perspective than I do, but you are obviously both on the same page. To many it may seem like you lack boundaries, but I don't think that is actually the case here. You and your wife just to see eye-to-eye on all of it and that is why it works. I think that is what is comes down to. Both partners have to be open and honest about everything and if you are compatible then it works out. 

You can state all the boundaries you want, but if the couple doesn't see eye-to-eye then there is an incompatibility that has a chance to break the relationship.


----------



## Laurentium

LisaDiane said:


> I wonder if the reason some marriages are unhappy isn't because of a lack of boundaries, but because of a lack of taking swift, firm action when their partner violates the boundaries that they do have.


Interesting point. From my perspective, the lack of taking action may be a symptom of not having thought clearly enough about the boundaries. A lot of people use the word "boundaries" but have little idea what it really means.


----------



## Personal

BootsAndJeans said:


> From your posts, you are either involved in or considering sexual relationships outside of matirtal bonds. Whatever floats your boat.


I am not involved in any such things. That said the only woman that I have shared sex with for 26½ years has been my wife, because that is what I have happily chosen to do.



> Perhaps our way of life and marriage is becoming a relic, but that is okay.


Perhaps.



> My post on how we have a had a long-term marriage, with dealing with the issues that happen in most marraiges, obviously does not apply to you or other people involved in non-monogamy.


Just like my post was also about how my wife and I approach our long term marriage.

That said, considering the fact that my wife and I, have shared a long lasting and happy monogamous marriage. What do you think disqualifies, me from sharing what my wife and I have experienced?



> So exactly, why do you and other (polyamorous, swingers, etc.) feel a need to comment on my post?


I'm not in a polyamorous sexual relationship, and have never been in one. I am also not a swinger, and have never been one either.

That said I am in a monogamous sexual relationship with my wife, and have been in a monogamous sexual relationship with her, continuously throughout our time together.



> Sorry, but as I have stated before, I find it interesting, that people involved in ENM, polyamory, swinging, same-sex realtionships, etc., feel the need to not only explain their lifestyles, but want others who have moral and ethical issues with said lifestyles, to accept and celebrate it.


As mentioned above I am not involved in polyamory, or swinging. Likewise I am not involved in sharing a same sex relationship either, nor have I ever been in such relationships.



> Honestly, I can care less what other adults do in the privacy of their own lives.


If that is true, why do you want people to do mandatory marriage lessons?



> Have a nice day.


As often as I can.


----------



## LisaDiane

Laurentium said:


> Interesting point. From my perspective, the lack of taking action may be a symptom of not having thought clearly enough about the boundaries. A lot of people use the word "boundaries" but have little idea what it really means.


I'm sure you are right in many instances! 

What I've seen on here and in real life are people who set a boundary, but then are too afraid to enforce it, so they change it and lower their expectations. And then if those lowered expectations are still not met, they lower them even more in order to avoid having to take any action that would stir up their relationship and force conflict and change.
Their partner never has to actually honor and respect their boundaries, because they don't honor or respect them either.

What do you mean when you say, a lot of people use the word "boundaries" but have little idea what it really means? I always thought the concept of having a boundary in a relationship was fairly simple, just challenging to enforce for some people.


----------



## Rus47

LisaDiane said:


> What I've seen on here and in real life are people who set a boundary, but then are too afraid to enforce it, so they change it and lower their expectations.


An unenforced boundary isn't really a boundary at all. People need to contemplate how they will respond when the boundary is crossed, clearly communicate the consequences and be firm within themselves to carry through. For example, kids will* always* test whatever boundaries mom n dad set. It is within their nature to test each and every boundary, usually more than once. And very quickly identify whether the boundaries exist in actuality or are just words. They will also exploit any gaps between where mom and dad are regarding the boundaries.


----------



## Laurentium

LisaDiane said:


> I always thought the concept of having a boundary in a relationship was fairly simple, just challenging to enforce for some people.


To me it means those things you really *can't* compromise on. Not just preferences. 

One might not put it as bluntly as this, but in effect a boundary is saying, if this is broken, I can't be in this relationship any more. "Enforcing" it will not even be a choice. It just means the end. People say fatuous things like "I'm setting a boundary that we have to have a foreign holiday every year."


----------



## Julie's Husband

This is an interesting thread. As is much of TAM. 

The relationship between my wife and myself is very casually synergetic with no expressed boundaries. With the single exception I've posted elsewhere, the relationship is always about mutual concern and care. Before marriage there were no expectancies, though.


----------



## LisaDiane

Laurentium said:


> To me it means those things you really *can't* compromise on. Not just preferences.
> 
> One might not put it as bluntly as this, but in effect a boundary is saying, if this is broken, I can't be in this relationship any more. "Enforcing" it will not even be a choice. It just means the end. People say fatuous things like "I'm setting a boundary that we have to have a foreign holiday every year."


I see what you mean!

I would guess there are very few actual boundaries that fit that definition though, that people choose an immediate end without second-guessing that choice.

I also wonder if people THINK they have boundaries by your definition, but once challenged they realize that it's more negotiable than they planned.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

LisaDiane said:


> I see what you mean!
> 
> I would guess there are very few actual boundaries that fit that definition though, that people choose an immediate end without second-guessing that choice.
> 
> I also wonder if people THINK they have boundaries by your definition, but once challenged they realize that it's more negotiable than they planned.


Fear is going to play a big role. Everyone talks tough, but the rush of adrenaline from fear throws a wrench in all those hard boundaries you thought you had.


----------



## LisaDiane

BigDaddyNY said:


> Fear is going to play a big role. Everyone talks tough, but the rush of adrenaline from fear throws a wrench in all those hard boundaries you thought you had.


I believe this is VERY true, and we see that happen all the time on here.


----------



## Julie's Husband

Ooops. Hit a minor bump. I thought I'd told my wife that the first month of being on castration meds causes a temporary huge increase in testosterone. My reaction was to openly ogle women's anatomy. My mind immediately provide all the details. Like X-ray vision. Then instant full blown erotic fantasy.

She seemed uncomfortable with the thought.

I told her I'd wonder what women would think about being hot enough to turn on a castrate man and assured I thought of her as being hot.


----------



## Personal

BigDaddyNY said:


> Fear is going to play a big role. Everyone talks tough, but the rush of adrenaline from fear throws a wrench in all those hard boundaries you thought you had.





LisaDiane said:


> I believe this is VERY true, and we see that happen all the time on here.


That is certainly true for many people, in not walking their talk. Yet not all, are are like that.

As for me, every time anyone I have been with, has crossed any of my relationship boundaries. I have always, very decisively ended that relationship. That said doing so, may not always be a good thing. Yet it is in my nature, to be unyielding in such things.


----------



## As'laDain

Laurentium said:


> I really hope that goes well.
> 
> Relevant to the thread topic, in a way: will you set some kind of rules (boundaries) with your guests?


yes, but im not going to list a bunch of things that they can or cannot do. im just going to tell them what i am willing to do, and what i am not willing to do, in response to them. i find that most people don't really understand how boundaries work. they often give someone a list of rules they have to abide by, or else... whatever the hell "else" is supposed to mean.

i dont give a crap what they do so long as they are not making life hell for me or those i care about. if they are doing something that bad, i will tell them about it and tell them what i am willing to do about it if they wont stop. if they dont stop, i will just do whatever i need to do to make sure i dont have to deal with it anymore.


----------



## Laurentium

As'laDain said:


> im just going to tell them what i am willing to do, and what i am not willing to do, in response to them. i find that most people don't really understand how boundaries work. they often give someone a list of rules they have to abide by, or else... whatever the hell "else" is supposed to mean.


Perfect!


----------



## As'laDain

maybe I should start a thread about long term success in non-monogamous marriages. the advice would be mostly the same as anyone would give for monogamous marriages, with the obvious difference being that there are more people involved.

I'm sure plenty of people on their fifth marriage would have lots of helpful advice. 😆


----------



## Personal

As'laDain said:


> I'm sure plenty of people on their fifth marriage would have lots of helpful advice.


Relationships are relationships are relationships are relationships.


----------



## As'laDain

Personal said:


> Relationships are relationships are relationships are relationships.


yep. and effective boundaries work exactly the same regardless of who is involved. whether you are a gay or straight, man, woman, or _*it*_, boundaries are just things people do to keep from running out of spoons at the end of the day. or to keep from getting depressed. or to keep from being anxious. the point is, it's just things people do to protect themselves.

the fact that it doesn't bother me if my wife has sex with someone else doesn't mean I don't have boundaries, it just means that my wife having sex with someone else is not something that hurts me. it may hurt someone else for their spouse to have sex with another person, and that is fine. they _should_ protect themselves from that pain. but that is something that honestly doesn't hurt me, so what would I be protecting myself from? what other people think about me in regards to that doesn't hurt me either, so I'm not even worried about that either.

there are things that my wife can do that _do_ bother me, and that is where my boundaries lie. it hurts me to try to plan for something only to have my wife undermine my efforts by spending all of the money we had set aside for it. I remove her access to my income when that happens. I return it when she shows that she is willing _and able_ to get back on the same page. the italicized part is important because she isn't always in complete control of herself. sometimes she has manic episodes and doesn't even know how much she is spending. so I just do something about it and work with her to get back on track, and then generally let it go. 

ultimately, if your boundary requires your partner to do something or not do something in order for it to work, it isn't a boundary. it's an attempt at control. boundaries are entirely on the person that holds them.


----------

