# New here-sex advice?



## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Hi, I just joined this group Bcz I don’t really know where else to turn. I’m 40, married 10 years & I love my husband. He’s my best friend & a great guy. I don’t want to divorce. My issue is that I have zero interest in having sex with him anymore. I WANT to but it either doesn’t enter my mind day-to-day, or when it does, it’s like I’m forcing myself.
Sometimes I do initiate. But only when I’ve “pre-gamed” on myself so I could get in the mood. 
I thought maybe my libido was shot & I should see a doctor or something. But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby. So it appears libido is not the issue. And while it works talking to other men (even if not about sex), I feel guilty about it. We’ve tried the standard advice...toys, fantasies, etc. But I just can’t seem to get into it. I didn’t want to talk to my friends about this so I’m hoping this is a safe space. 
I guess my question is...Is this just how marriage gets after awhile? (Please say no).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Most of daily life of kids, work, bills, house chores, taking the cat to the vet etc etc is not sexy or arousing. After 10 years of daily life and chores and bills, yeah, it kind of is how marriage gets after awhile. 

Some here will disagree, but I don't think Mother Nature ever intended for us to only be with one partner for 50 years. We can choose to rise above our instinctive nature, but that doesn't mean we are always going to be all that thrilled with it. 

IMHO your libido is fine. It's not that your libido is shot, it is that your attraction and desire for you H has shut down. It's commendable that you've tried toys and what not. 

The fact you are getting your motor running with other men can be dangerous. Is your H aware of this and is he consenting to it? Some dudes are OK with it as long as they are the beneficiary of that arousal. Others may be on the phone with the divorce lawyer first thing the morning after they find out about it. 

It doesn't sound like you have any medical issues since you're getting hot with other men. 

The next logical question is whether there is something your H is doing or not doing that is turning you off or causing resentment or bitterness or anything else that is causing you to lose desire for him. 

Has he gained a lot of weight or gotten real lazy around the house or done something that has really hurt you or pissed you off?

The other big thing that can cause women to lose attraction/desire for their H is developing feelings/desire for someone else. How far have things gotten with these other men? You don't even have to have an actual affair or actually get with someone else. If you start to develop a strong sexual response to someone else, that can shut down your attraction/desire for your H like a bucket of ice water on a match.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Most of daily life of kids, work, bills, house chores, taking the cat to the vet etc etc is not sexy or arousing. After 10 years of daily life and chores and bills, yeah, it kind of is how marriage gets after awhile.
> 
> Some here will disagree, but I don't think Mother Nature ever intended for us to only be with one partner for 50 years. We can choose to rise above our instinctive nature, but that doesn't mean we are always going to be all that thrilled with it.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your thoughtful (and non-judgemental) response. To answer your questions, no. He does not know I’ve talked to other men. I know him & even if he is reaping the sexual benefits, he wouldn’t be ok with it. I haven’t talked to anyone in a year or so. But the desire to is still there. I’m just fighting it.

Regarding your second question, no...he really hasn’t done anything wrong at all! We get along great, have similar views, like spending time together, make eachother laugh...yes, he’s lost some hair over the years & we’ve both put on a few pounds, but I still think he is an attractive man. I just have sexual desire for him & I feel horrible about it.

Your last point. Rarely do I start talking to a guy with the intention of it turning sexual. Things always start off innocent (l run a large online group so I chat often with both male & female members offering advice, etc. ) 
Oftentimes the men get...attached to me I guess. Without sounding rude I suppose I’d be considered an attractive woman. I am honest that I’m married & they often try to pursue something anyways. It doesn’t always turn sexual (actually it hardly ever does), but I admit that I like being wanted. Even if I’m not interested & don’t plan to do anything, knowing someone desires me is enough to get me going...sorry if that’s too much info. Just trying to be honest).


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby.


You’re cheating with other men and asking us how you can make your sex life better and more intimate with the man you’re betraying? really?

For starters, stop cheating. Then go see a betrayal Trauma specialist who can help you understand the devastating impact this is about to have.

you yourself have created an enormous intimacy hole in your marriage where there should be wholeness and now you’re puzzled as to why that is dissatisfying.

how do you think he would react to your sexting with other men?

the lie is now a festering wound at the heart of your marriage. It will only grow and seep pus now, poisoning what is left


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I appreciate your thoughtful (and non-judgemental) response. To answer your questions, no. He does not know I’ve talked to other men. I know him & even if he is reaping the sexual benefits, he wouldn’t be ok with it. I haven’t talked to anyone in a year or so. But the desire to is still there. I’m just fighting it.
> 
> Regarding your second question, no...he really hasn’t done anything wrong at all! We get along great, have similar views, like spending time together, make eachother laugh...yes, he’s lost some hair over the years & we’ve both put on a few pounds, but I still think he is an attractive man. I just have sexual desire for him & I feel horrible about it.
> 
> ...


No it's not too much info and your response is perfectly normal and natural. People like being wanted and desired even if they have no intention of acting on it. The benefit of an anonymous forum like this is you can be honest about it and say it like it is. 

(just be warned that many of the people on this site are here because they have been cheated on in the past and any mention of any kind of feelings for someone else will set them off. You will likely get some flack at some point )

My warning though is it can be a very slippery slope and the standard phrase that comes out of virtually every cheating spouse is, "I wasn't looking for this to happen". 

It is like a drug and with each tiny little hit, you are left wanting for more. And as i mentioned, even if you don't have some kind of actual affair, the more and stronger feelings you have for someone else, that can have a very negative and even negating effect on the desire you feel for you H. You may feel like these other men are revving up your desire, but what it is actually doing is killing your desire for him. .... and it is opening you up for the possibility of an affair which could be like dropping a nuke on your marriage and your life in general. 

It's normal and natural to feel good and get some ego strokes when people are schmoozing up to you.. but there are also millions of people each year blowing up their marriages and their lives by inappropriate activities with other people. 

The standard reccomendations for getting that loving feeling back is date nights, sexy lingerie, fantasy talk, weekend getaways to nice hotels and warm beaches, more nonsexual touch and affection etc etc. 

Sounds like fun stuff to try anyway. 

If that has no or very limited effect, it may be worth some professional marital counseling or even sex therapy to see if there is some kind of roadblock that is hampering your desire for him.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Thumos said:


> You’re cheating with other men and asking us how you can make your sex life better and more intimate with the man you’re betraying? really?
> 
> For starters, stop cheating. Then go see a betrayal Trauma specialist who can help you understand the devastating impact this is about to have.
> 
> ...


I understand your point. I haven’t talked to any other men in over a year. I had just been surprised at the time that it even interested me since I honestly thought I no longer had interest in sex with anyone. Im not saying it was ok, but I didn’t go into these conversations with the endgame of it turning sexual. In both cases I told them I was married & uninterested & they didn’t get far before I shut them down. Mostly I only mentioned it because it had surprised me to find that I still had any interest at all.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I think you have created an alternative outlet with the sexting and your husband, as much as you appreciate him, does not push your buttons. I can only imagine how devastated he would be if he ever found out.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I appreciate your thoughtful (and non-judgemental) response. To answer your questions, no. He does not know I’ve talked to other men. I know him & even if he is reaping the sexual benefits, he wouldn’t be ok with it.


A marriage in which it's important to keep secrets from your partner because it would damage things, especially when those secrets are current, not past, is doomed to fail. The two of you are suffering greatly from a lack of boundaries and no discussions of notions of privacy. 

You need to find an outlet with your husband, approved by your husband, that will provide appropriate means to get your motor running. The boundary discussion needs to come FIRST though. No rogue explorations allowed from here on. I would suggest therapy, perhaps a sex therapist, with the idea of finding ways for your husband to engage you. There are many possibilities including things like role playing, that would be safe to try. 

But as others have pointed out, you've previously gone down the path of the emotional affair, which is a drug that demands increasing risk and actions to work. It's nearly as bad as a physical affair even if it didn't tend to lead to them.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

My question to you is, based on what you have said, why do you not want a divorce so that you can pursue relationships with other men without hurting your husband and family? 
Also, are these other men married? If so, then you would also be hurting another family.
Does you husband know any of these men and/or do they know him? That too would be destructive and disrespectful to him.

If you truly are not attracted to him, then get a divorce and let him go find someone who does want him sexually and you also can then be free to pursue other men. Make sure that these men are not married or taken and also be very sure that sexually, the grass is going to be greener.

You have only been married 10 years and that seems to be a short time in which to lose attraction for your husband. What was it like when you first got married? The point being that maybe you should not look to be married - you may lose attraction for these other men too in 10 years or less.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Have your hormones checked, could be off on you testosterone levels.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

RClawson said:


> your husband, as much as you appreciate him, does not push your buttons.


This...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I understand your point. I haven’t talked to any other men in over a year. I had just been surprised at the time that it even interested me since I honestly thought I no longer had interest in sex with anyone. Im not saying it was ok, but I didn’t go into these conversations with the endgame of it turning sexual. In both cases I told them I was married & uninterested & they didn’t get far before I shut them down. Mostly I only mentioned it because it had surprised me to find that I still had any interest at all.


I thought I read you sexted other men?


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> understand your point. I haven’t talked to any other men in over a year. I had just been surprised at the time that it even interested me since I honestly thought I no longer had interest in sex with anyone. Im not saying it was ok, but I didn’t go into these conversations with the endgame of it turning sexual. In both cases I told them I was married & uninterested & they didn’t get far before I shut them down. Mostly I only mentioned it because it had surprised me to find that I still had any interest at all.


A good rule of thumb is that if you’re doing something you’re keeping secret and you know would devastate your spouse you’re crossing a boundary.

sexting with other men is only different from a full blown affair in degrees, and not very many degrees. There are many women dealing with SA husbands who “only” sexted or were addicted to porn and it is devastating.

there are spouses who find out years later about their unfaithful spouses’ cheating. I can only tell you Time does nothing to salve the shock of betrayal.

most wayward spouses do not go into sexual infidelity rubbing their hands with glee and intentionally plan it all out. Some do but not many.

They somewhat stumble in through a series of bad choices and willfulness against what they know is wrong.

it’s a big deal — a very big deal and depending on your vows, a violation and shattering of those vows — that you sexted with other men. You need to address it and grapple with it. It’s not a throwaway incident. And it has probably affected your relationship with Your husband in more ways than you know.

so that’s one thing. The other thing is your lack of sexual attraction to your husband. This is far more common than women want to admit. It comes because the relationship has become a friendship and desexualized - this is your fault AND his fault. he’s not gaming you. And you’re expecting him to read your mind. There’s a lot you can do to address that but first you have to decide if you want to really be married.

your sexting other men indicates to me that you are curious about sex with other men. You need to see a therapist and not one who is mealy mouthed about infidelity but one who will hold your feet to the fire. You need to dig down on your own issues and do everything you can to restore intimacy and honor to your marriage.

if you can’t do that, then give your husband back his autonomy and agency to make decisions about what he wants to do


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

For an answer to your question: my ex and I had sex every night up to the day that cheater left for 18 years. Do no, your desire for your partner doesn’t always leave. I personally wanted sex with nobody but the person I was with— she knew exactly what I liked and gaff it to me, and I did the same. 

Now feelings of huge live and affection? That wasn’t so strong constantly, but when I’d see her being a good mother, helping someone, or just seeing her in a particularly happy mood— it would remind me of what I loved about her and those feelings would be as strong as ever for a while. Seems like I’d fall in love with her again to an extent. 
I don’t know what to tell you, other than cheating with other men like you seem to do constantly, will certainly screw up your feelings Toward your husband. And without strong emotions for him, of course he’s unattractive to you.

no matter what a person looks like to a point, if you love them, you’ll think they’re hot and want them sexually.

gotta figure out if you can fall in love with him again. What was it about him that made you fall in love with him in the first place? Gotta look for that.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So when you and your husband have sex are you satisfied? 

New relationship hormones which you are getting from other men are always intoxicating, but they don't last. You are risking your current stable relationship for a false and flitting feeling.

It seems you may have disengaged from your husband. Do you spend time each week just him and you? Do you still date?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

All that @oldshirt said, and more.

Many, are very much influenced by life cycles, by our biology and our hormones.

Life cycles, they are often outside influences, set in motion at birth, from that first breath of air, onward.

There is a plan, plans for you, outside your 'conscious' control.

On cycles, a_ common_ one is that one that meets you and others, at midlife. It usually starts at age ~39 and lasts to ~46 years.
It depends on planetary conditions unique to you at birth.

Yes, some are not feeling, of these.

These cycles can be very strong, are _separating_ in nature.
They grab you by your short-hairs, even if you shave down there, it matters-not.



_King Brian-_


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> (just be warned that many of the people on this site are here because they have been cheated on in the past and any mention of any kind of feelings for someone else will set them off. You will likely get some flack at some point )


You're going to find this in pretty much any forum where betrayed spouses post. Part of it is we actually understand very well and in precise detail the trauma and toxic fallout from infidelity.

The framing oldshirt uses of "set them off" or giving you "some flack" is wrong and has some red flags of an equivocator and someone with somewhat of an amoral stance.

OP you need to understand that sexting with other men is infidelity. Flat out. Full stop. I'm not condemning you. I'm just telling you. I'm not "giving you flack" I'm just telling you like it is.

Infidelity is toxic. It destroys intimacy. It ruins families. It wrecks marriages.

I'll do whatever I can to prevent another married couple from going through the horror of infidelity. If that means I need to talk somewhat bluntly to get through to you, so be it.

You don't seem like a bad person; most people who commit adultery aren't. But people who allow themselves to stumble blindly into infidelity do have some neuroses and other things that they need to be willing to root out.

Sexting with other men is a form of "acting out" and you're doing it in part because of false narratives about your marriage, your husband and yourself you've cooked up in your head.

If you laid out all of these stories in your head for us here, or verbalized them to your husband, most of them would crumble like dust in your hands. They would fall apart pretty easily in the light of day.

I don't want any husband or wife to experience sexual loss, frustration or any other sexual deprivation in a marriage. A marriage is -- at its very heart -- a sexual relationship charged with the polarity of a man and woman coming together. Without it, it's a business relationship.

But we're having a sort of "chicken-egg" discussion here. Which came first, the loss of sexual intimacy or your decision to betray your husband? Or was it "pre programming" with you telling yourself some false narratives and then giving yourself permission to sext with other man as a way of "releasing pressure." You really need to examine this and ask yourself more about it.

I would predict that in reality you're expecting your husband to have ESP. He doesn't and - big surprise - can't read minds, so that has disappointed you and you have allowed resentment or quiet withdrawal to creep in.

Which naturally leads to a significant loss of intimacy over time.

Stop walking around like a zombie and do something about it. First get into see an individual counselor. Second, you must be honest and transparent about what has happened. Third, decide if you want to stay married. And then give your husband the same grace and consideration. Because you've been unilaterally deciding things for him without his knowledge and it's going to eat away at you over time if you keep doing it.

The other thing I'll say: it has been alluded to here that hormonal cycles drive sexual desire for both men and women. Of course. As I've said it is also common for women to lose sexual attraction for their husband - often at the 7-10 year mark. Thus the old saying about "the 7 year itch" being common among women.

It doesn't seem to matter if the faithful husband has a dad bod, or has maintained muscularity; if he has career success or is floundering, etc. Really doesn't seem to matter much at all. 

The tragedy here is that this sexual desire often comes back -- raging back -- most especially when the woman sees what she is about to lose.

Yet, if a woman has allowed herself to believe her own false narratives and the lies her hormonal cycle are telling, and has engaged in infidelity, this results in a severed connection with the faithful man she now passionately desires once again.

And once a man has been betrayed, he very often doesn't come back from that. In the initial year or so after infidelity, success rates for "reconciliation" are fairly high, something like 70 percent. It then drops off a cliff each year. By the fifth year less than 15 percent of marriages have survived even one instance of infidelity.

This is even more so the case when the man has been betrayed. Women who tell themselves "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" or try to "take the secret to the grave" find themselves in pretty much the same dilemma -- because their husbands almost always seem to _know_ on some cellular level even if they don't consciously know and they begin to treat their unfaithful wives more and more like damaged goods.

So you're playing with dynamite here, OP, and I don't feel I need to temper that warning.

It is not sexist for me to say that women are often driven by the emotional state they happen to be in at the moment. You have to do your best to not let this drive your decision making.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I guess my question is...Is this just how marriage gets after awhile? (Please say no).


In my opinion and in my experience I think this is what mild performance anxiety looks like in marriage after many years. You ask yourself that if you really love someone then the sex should just be natural and great. Then it is not and you worry about it. Then before sex you feel anxious that something needs to happen to make it great. For men, they may look at porn to get themselves aroused and then go initiate with their spouse. Some here at TAM have even gone into detail about routines of what it takes for a man to ramp up the libido (using porn and viagra) and then go perform for the wife. 

Is there anything wrong with that? Well it is something almost all relationships experience at some point and there is nothing to be ashamed about when it happens. Most self help books actually suggest enjoying erotic media, enjoying other people being flirtatious with you, and self exploring to discover new elements of fantasy. While it is not for everyone, many therapists would suggest exploring role play scenarios. Role play allows you to experience the thrill of "partner replacement" via opening yourself and your partner to open up and taking on alternate personas while still being monogamous. 

The first problem with role play is that some fear as to why they have to pretend to be somebody else in order for sex to be exciting again, as if your partner does not love you but the idea of someone else. However it takes a great deal of vulnerability to share those things with someone, and a willingness to be that vulnerable is a show of love. 

At the end of the day, just talking about these issues with a spouse is what helps the most. Just saying that you want to enjoy sex more, but you don't always know what to do to make that happen is OK. Pay very close attention to guilt and shame as those are the two emotions that over time can destroy a relationship. 

Not sure if that helps or if I am rambling...

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Thumos said:


> The framing oldshirt uses of "set them off" or giving you "some flack" is wrong and has some red flags of an equivocator and someone with somewhat of an amoral stance.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say this...could you explain a little more...?


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

LisaDiane,

I'm saying that framing betrayed spouses as being "set off" or giving the OP "some flack" is incorrect. Unvarnished plain spoken truth is simply that and nothing more. It's not being "set off" or "giving flack." It's simply speaking truth.

The framing oldshirt uses also has a whiff -- more than a whiff -- of equivocation. Amoral simply means that I see oldshirt's position on this as relativistic. I'm not a relativist and believe in an objective moral order, which I think is empircally borne out in the very clear real-world fallout we see every single day from infidelity all over the planet.

The book "Cheating in a Nutshell" outlines how a betrayed spouse typically responds to infidelity. In it, the authors briefly mention the work of Jonathan Haidt. Haidt has done scientific research showing that certain "moral emotions" provide the basis for an objective moral order we see repeatedly the world over (things like piety, filial loyalty, honoring one's parents, protecting the innocent, not killing innocents, not betraying your spouse etc). These are primary emotions like anger and disgust. 

When a betrayed spouse feels revulsion and disgust over the betrayal and what their unfaithful spouse has done, this is not a cover for something else. It's a correct reaction and lies along a continuum of what Haidt calls the "sancity/degradation" foundation for morality. Infidelity degrades and dishonors what should be a a more sanctified relationship. If you're secular, you can still see why a sanctified approach to marital relationships is better, and more in line with basic human understanding the world over.

Calling out infidelity for what it is, and helping people understand the long-term toxic fallout it causes, is the right way to go. To be more blunt and less "on this hand, on the other hand" about the whole thing. To not be relativistic. 

At the same I can show compassion for the OP and try to help her with the issue of sexual attraction. But she needs to understand that sexting other men is a shattering of her vows and thus a moral transgression.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> Hi, I just joined this group Bcz I don’t really know where else to turn. I’m 40, married 10 years & I love my husband. He’s my best friend & a great guy. I don’t want to divorce. My issue is that I have zero interest in having sex with him anymore. I WANT to but it either doesn’t enter my mind day-to-day, or when it does, it’s like I’m forcing myself.
> Sometimes I do initiate. But only when I’ve “pre-gamed” on myself so I could get in the mood.
> I thought maybe my libido was shot & I should see a doctor or something. But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby. So it appears libido is not the issue. And while it works talking to other men (even if not about sex), I feel guilty about it. We’ve tried the standard advice...toys, fantasies, etc. But I just can’t seem to get into it. I didn’t want to talk to my friends about this so I’m hoping this is a safe space.
> I guess my question is...Is this just how marriage gets after awhile? (Please say no).


No. My wife and are are into our thirtieth year together and I wake up every morning wanting to molest her and go to bed every night feeling the same impulse.

I find other women attractive as well but I have never lost it for Mrs. Conan despite ups and downs and trials of life.

I know how to start her engine without even touching her and can start her toes curling with a certain look or light touches.

How good is his seduction game with you?

I already know it isn't good but I want to get you focused on what is happening.

Your head isn't in the game with him but I don't believe his is either.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I understand your point. I haven’t talked to any other men in over a year. I had just been surprised at the time that it even interested me since I honestly thought I no longer had interest in sex with anyone. Im not saying it was ok, but I didn’t go into these conversations with the endgame of it turning sexual. In both cases I told them I was married & uninterested & they didn’t get far before I shut them down. Mostly I only mentioned it because it had surprised me to find that I still had any interest at all.


I appreciate your honesty and I can see how this happened.

It happens to a lot of folks. I almost entered into an affair with someone in real life a few years ago but stopped it before it started.

Please keep posting and I hope everyone can get out of the infidelity mindset as that isn't really the problem here.

She mentioned the conversations that occurred as pertaining points about her libido and explained what happened.

She stopped the conversations when they went to far.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I didn’t go into these conversations with the endgame of it turning sexual.


I understand you saying this and I don't want to be difficult with you. But I want you to try to really examine this statement. This is very fuzzy. It represents somewhat fuzzy thinking on this, which is common for a spouse who is either wayward or about to become wayward. I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you're obviously quite intelligent and this is an example of what I alluded to above about telling yourself stories that aren't true. 

This is one step away from "it was just a mistake" which is something most unfaithful spouses who have fallen all the way into infidelity say at one time or another. 

You are stripping yourself of your own autonomy and decision making power with this statement. Your accountability. 

If the endgame wasn't sexual, then what was the point of engaging in texting conversations with other men or in online conversations? Every adult knows that a conversation turning intimate, romantic, and sexual is nearly always the endgame of secret communications between men and women. 

There is no other reason.

You might read the book "Not Just Friends" for insight on this. It's short and could open your eyes a bit more. 

I would liken this a bit to women who claim they didn't know they were going to have sex with another man when they decided to be alone with him. It is very rare for an adult woman not to be aware of her location, proximity, timing, setting, circumstance and so on with respect to a man she is attracted to sexually. It is exceedingly rare for an adult woman not to be aware of this if sex is not already on the table in some form, or if the relationship has not already been sexualized to some extent.

I think this analogy holds in terms of initiating texting conversations with other men and then telling yourself you lacked any self awareness these conversations would not turn sexual in nature.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Please keep posting and I hope everyone can get out of the infidelity mindset as that isn't really the problem here.


I disagree. Sexting with other men is an act of infidelity in and of itself. The act itself has in all likelihood driven her and her husband further apart in ways both of them don't even consciously understand or realize, because such an act creates an intimacy vacuum in a marriage.

Most faithful married men would consider it infidelity. It is true that it was not a "physical" act of infidelity, although she herself became physically aroused. This becomes real angels-on-the-head of a pin stuff and is ultimately a distinction without a difference.

I would warrant practically no one on this thread believes her husband wouldn't flip his gourd if he found out she was sexting with other men. He would be devastated and traumatized. He would doubt everything he thought he knew. He might separate from her on the spot, and potentially divorce her if he knew.

So what else do we call that then?

Of course we understand how it happens, and that's exactly what people like me are trying to tell her. It happens through false narratives she's telling herself, and it happens with one foot right in front of another on the good intentions road.

I have empathy for OP. I understand her anxiety and her sadness over her loss of intimacy. I'm also trying to get her to look herself squarely in the mirror so she can address these things in a healthy way.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Thumos said:


> I disagree. Sexting with other men is an act of infidelity in and of itself. The act itself has in all likelihood driven her and her husband further apart in ways both of them don't even consciously understand or realize, because such an act creates an intimacy vacuum in a marriage.
> 
> Most faithful married men would consider it infidelity. It is true that it was not a "physical" act of infidelity, although she herself became physically aroused. This becomes real angels-on-the-head of a pin stuff and is ultimately a distinction without a difference.
> 
> ...



I dunno, I'm getting weird vibes from OP on the veracity of the thread.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I dunno, I'm getting weird vibes from OP on the veracity of the thread.


What about it, OP? I'm getting the same vibes. Feels like either you're trying to test the waters on something or you're not being transparent with us about the real backstory here. Can you set the record straight?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thumos said:


> I disagree. Sexting with other men is an act of infidelity in and of itself. The act itself has in all likelihood driven her and her husband further apart in ways both of them don't even consciously understand or realize, because such an act creates an intimacy vacuum in a marriage.
> 
> Most faithful married men would consider it infidelity. It is true that it was not a "physical" act of infidelity, although she herself became physically aroused. This becomes real angels-on-the-head of a pin stuff and is ultimately a distinction without a difference.
> 
> ...


She explained the situation and it developed rather than her initiating it.

She stopped it before it really went anywhere and only mentioned it because of the impact it had on her libido.

I didn't cheat and came closer to the fire in real life.

This woman is very committed to her husband and is trying hard to work on her mojo with him.

Over focussing on a door that has been solidly closed and isn't plaguing her marriage is not going to help resolve her sexual attraction to her husband. She is not cheating with anyone that could be keeping her libido occupied elsewhere.

There isn't any AP to deal with here. She had a couple conversations online that got too flirty and she told them she wasn't interested and married and shut them down.

That isn't even cheating. She only mentioned them because they did cause a response that she thought she had lost.

Her problem is common and, I believe, correctable but focussing on non existent cheating isn't going to help here.

If you were talking to someone online and they got frisky with you and you felt a response but shut them down, is that cheating?

If so I have cheated way worse in real life according to those standards but I certainly don't acknowledge them.

I had a coworker that could be talking about brussel sprouts and I became a walking erection. She would also hit on me and take the conversation to sex. I put a stop to it before an affair even had a chance to start.

I didn't cheat but by the standards you are applying here, I did.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> She explained the situation and it developed rather than her initiating it.


That is the essence of how wayward spouses think and how it happens. You're basically making the same point I am.

I don't find anything in her posts to indicate this door is solidly closed. She's been somewhat vague about the whole thing but maybe she 'll come back and clear it up. First, it was just something she mentioned and she didn't even know why she bothered to mention it -- and then a few more details came out. And then a few more.

This is usually how it goes.

She didn't just shut down a conversation the minute someone mentioned something sexual. I think you're mischaracterizing what she reported. She said she sexted with them. This implies mutual gratification. If she opened up conversations with other men knowing it probably would turn sexual, then she's really kidding herself and us by saying otherwise.

And my point earlier was, given the context, that is probably exactly where she knew the conversations would go in the back of her mind. I'm pushing her to be more honest with us about that.

In terms of your own situation, no it doesn't look like you cheated. Apparently you had boundaries and evidently didn't encourage it and shut it down the minute it developed into something more.

"Not Just Friends" has some good insight into this about opening windows with someone other than your spouse.

If what you describe had an emotional connection you would not want your wife to know about, then it probably crossed a boundary.

If you're telling us that if your wife knew of your friendship with the woman at work and that it was transparent and she had no problem with it, and that you shut down this other woman's overtures as inappropriate right away, well no, that's not cheating.

Only you know for sure.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

If she sent sexting emails to another male, that would be contributing.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thumos said:


> The framing oldshirt uses also has a whiff -- more than a whiff -- of equivocation. Amoral simply means that I see oldshirt's position on this as relativistic. I'm not a relativist and believe in an objective moral order,
> 
> Calling out infidelity for what it is, and helping people understand the long-term toxic fallout it causes, is the right way to go. To be more blunt and less "on this hand, on the other hand" about the whole thing. To not be relativistic.
> 
> At the same I can show compassion for the OP and try to help her with the issue of sexual attraction. But she needs to understand that sexting other men is a shattering of her vows and thus a moral transgression.


Two sides of the same coin. 

I see a 40 year old woman who has been married for 10 years losing some of the passion and fire for her husband and feeling like her libido has left the building - but yet have that fire being restocked by the attentions of another man as normal and natural process that occurs in probably countless people. 

It’s an byproduct of our instinctual hardwiring and occurs in various forms to various degrees in just about everyone as they go through their 80+ year life expectancy. 

But normal and natural does not make it morally or ethically right. 

As the OP recognizes the issues and potential consequences and since she (reportedly) has not acted in these feelings - I haven’t assigned a high moral or ethical value to it. (Yet)

I saw it as a normal, natural process of a 40 year woman in a long term marriage and warned of the potential pitfalls and dangers if she continues to take that path. 

You addressed the moral/ethical implications and pointed out the “wrongness” of it all while still being compassionate. 

Two sides of the same coin IMHO. 

What lead us to moreless the same input but from two different perspectives?

I have not been cheated on by a spouse (that I know of). And you have. 

I see what she is going through as an example of a normal result of natural process without a high moral component at this moment in time. 

Someone who has been on the receiving end of infidelity will see the moral component first and perhaps see it as an abbarency or perhaps even an abhorancy. 

The value of forums like this is getting different perspectives of the same issues.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Thumos said:


> What about it, OP? I'm getting the same vibes. Feels like either you're trying to test the waters on something or you're not being transparent with us about the real backstory here. Can you set the record straight?


OP here...I appreciate all of these comments. Even the ones that are taking a hard stance against me & my actions.
What exactly are you questioning? I’m happy to answer anything open & honestly (it IS an anonymous site after all).


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> She explained the situation and it developed rather than her initiating it.
> 
> She stopped it before it really went anywhere and only mentioned it because of the impact it had on her libido.
> 
> ...


OP here....Thank you for this. You’re right that this is exactly why I even mentioned it. I’m trying hard to work on my marriage (yes, we’ve been to counseling), and that’s the whole reason I even created this post. 
I’ve seen a lot of posts from men on what to do about wanting sex from an uninterested wife. I don’t see many from the other angle. It’s a common problem (almost all of my friends have the same concern...) and it’s a conversation nobody is having to any real tangible result.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> She explained the situation and it developed rather than her initiating it.
> 
> She stopped it before it really went anywhere and only mentioned it because of the impact it had on her libido.


Actually Conan, I don't think your view on this is correct.
THIS is what she said in the OP:



Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby


She did it TO get her motor running ahead of time so that she could tolerate sex with her husband.
That is not innocently falling into it and the ending it before it went anywhere.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

OP here...thank you all for your input. I don’t mind being the bad guy here. I know I’m not innocent in all this. Over a year ago, a normal (non-sexual) online conversation took a sexual turn two separate times...I did not initiate either one, but I should have stopped myself earlier. There is certainly no shortage of men (single OR married) who are happy to start a sexual conversation. As I mentioned in a previous response, I run a large online group & chat privately often with both men and women. We get to know eachother quite well. Twice I let it get too far, but I had countless opportunities to.

Honestly, no longer being sexually attracted to your husband is a problem for a lot women in my age group as far as I can tell. I see many posts from the man’s POV...his wife has no interest anymore & asking what to do. I’m not seeing many posts from the female angle. I don’t mind being the scapegoat here for all frustrated women.
I personally know a shockingly large amount of women who are feeling this way, concerned with what to do, & nobody (by that I mean the experts & society), is addressing it with any real solution. We’ve been to marriage counseling. I’d love to say that lighting candles & buying new lingerie is doing the trick. It isn’t. I’ve tried all the standard tips & tricks. Role playing, etc...he seems to enjoy it. So that’s nice, it doesn’t help my issue though.

For those of you suggesting divorce...no. A marriage is made up of many parts & sex is only a piece of the pie. Every other part of our marriage is solid & works. I’m not going to throw it away just Bcz our sex life is lackluster. He actually doesn’t even complain about wanting sex because I initiate it often enough to satisfy him (I just tend to look at it more as a duty than I’d like to). Again, I’m not alone in that either. Many women have sex out of a “wifely duty”. Ideal? Nope. But again, I’d say most of my female friends feel this way. I agree...not great news. That’s why I’m here having this conversation.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

How so? I’ve been very honest. Even when it reflects badly on me. What is it you’re questioning?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Sugarmagnolia14 May I suggest counselling, both individual for you and also as a couple? I think that would be of potential benefit to you both,


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You need to survive the mental love drought, the sex awash dreams, those visions of other men....and you together.

It is a choice.

Accept your hungry feelings and survive through it, or quitting your marriage and seeking love and passion, over stability. 

Somewhere down deep, (I suspect) you have some resentment toward your husband.
Or, it might be projection, where you are angry at yourself and laying some on him.

Compatibility is both mental and chemical. You have lost that chemical bond. 

You may need to wait this dust storm out, for any meaningful change to arrive.

This is a critical time for you. Many others have experienced this '*phase' and worked their way through it.


_Gwendolyn-_

* a terrible term, and rather condescending for an adult to hear.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> @Sugarmagnolia14 May I suggest counselling, both individual for you and also as a couple? I think that would be of potential benefit to you both,


We have been to marriage counseling & did not find it helpful (they suggested role playing, date night, etc...all the standard ideas). But thank you for your response. Perhaps we’ll try a sex therapist.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Many men look at porn to "get their motor running" in order to stand having sex with their wife - or just do porn as a more attractive alternative. While OP's method is equally - or more - questionable, she's at least _trying_ to engage with her spouse, which is more than many women are doing in their sexless marriages. Short of him changing in some way for the better to be more attractive to her, or divorce, I don't have a better suggestion so far.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

An interesting read is "What do women want?" By Daniel Bergner.

It has some actual science involved and real studies on this subject. It could provide some insight into your situation.

Some of it is bollocks but some of it is intriguing.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> An interesting read is "What do women want?" By Daniel Bergner.
> 
> It has some actual science involved and real studies on this subject. It could provide some insight into your situation.
> 
> Some of it is bollocks but some of it is intriguing.


Thank you, I’ll look into it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Love and passion rate very high in many humans.

To them, the valued rest becomes, just more trinkets.

Balance, must be key. 


_Are Dee-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Many men look at porn to "get their motor running" in order to stand having sex with their wife - or just do porn as a more attractive alternative. While OP's method is equally - or more - questionable, she's at least _trying_ to engage with her spouse, which is more than many women are doing in their sexless marriages. Short of him changing in some way for the better to be more attractive to her, or divorce, I don't have a better suggestion so far.


I agree.
She is trying.
.................................................

On porn:

Porn is the often the last stop to being totally alone.
Alone in your life, and alone in your thoughts.

Porn shows what you could have, but never will.
Videos make perfect what reality proves otherwise.

Porn is a snapshot in time, seemingly joyful.
The rest of the time available for its participants does not change.
It does not change anyone for the better.

There is passionate love and there is sex.
The first feels great, the other is OK for 30 minutes.



_Are-Dee-_


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You haven’t really said much about your H. 

What is his stake in all of this? Has been been complaining about the lack of sex or the lack of passion and enthusiasm?

What has he done to try to stoke your fire? Has he been working out? Dressing sharp? Has he bumped up any of his game or done anything to flirt you up and seduce you?

Has he been reading books or writing to relationship forums like this for insight? 

Does he have resentments and has he withdrawn at all?

Any known or suspected infidelity or inappropriate actions on his part?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> Hi, I just joined this group Bcz I don’t really know where else to turn. I’m 40, married 10 years & I love my husband. He’s my best friend & a great guy. I don’t want to divorce. My issue is that I have zero interest in having sex with him anymore. I WANT to but it either doesn’t enter my mind day-to-day, or when it does, it’s like I’m forcing myself.
> Sometimes I do initiate. But only when I’ve “pre-gamed” on myself so I could get in the mood.
> I thought maybe my libido was shot & I should see a doctor or something. But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby. So it appears libido is not the issue. And while it works talking to other men (even if not about sex), I feel guilty about it. We’ve tried the standard advice...toys, fantasies, etc. But I just can’t seem to get into it. I didn’t want to talk to my friends about this so I’m hoping this is a safe space.
> I guess my question is...Is this just how marriage gets after awhile? (Please say no).





oldshirt said:


> (just be warned that many of the people on this site are here because they have been cheated on in the past and any mention of any kind of feelings for someone else will set them off. You will likely get some flack at some point )


Called it in one my friend.

@Sugarmagnolia14 first I think that you have unintentionally misused the word "sexting" in this context, and that is setting such people off even more. Mind you I only have your further posts on the matter to go by. But from the sounds of it, while some conversations went sexual in nature, it doesn't strike me as sexting. Sexting usually is texting back and forth descriptions of what you would be physically doing if you were physically together, at least that was the last description I had heard. I've done such in chat rooms, but never via text programs.

I can agree that any secrets kept, beyond the what gift you got them type, are very damaging to a relationship. You need to be open to your husband about what kind of issues you are going through. Then you can work together to see what kind of work arounds you can come up with. You mentioned that you are no longer having these "pre-game" conversations. So what are you using to "prime the pump"?

One idea that might work, is that it's the novelty of the "sexting" (still not positive that is the correct word, but...), and not so much that it is with other men. If so then maybe if you and he are "sexting" prior, whether actual sexting or just having sexual oriented conversations, could aid in getting you reved up. If you are in need of external stimulus, maybe watching some porn prior would help.

Now I am going to go out on a limb here for suggestions that could be seen as extreme, but hey it works for some people. As part of the BDSM community, I can tell you from first hand experience, among other sources, that there are plenty of monogamous couples who attend play parties and such events. And among them there are plenty who never actually play at these parties, saving it for home. If such external stimulus is what it takes, then this is a possible route. Plus, such kink groups are not limited to "pain and rope" and other stereotypes. So there would be plenty of sensuous types of plays, to learn and use at home. This is a different route than just toys and fantasies alone. Plus, for somethings, learning how to use them or do the plays, can open up whole new possibilities that trying to figure out on your own would not, not to mention ensuring that you learn about possible safety concerns.

You should probably still check with your doctor. It can't hurt to see if there is any physical issues.

So far you've only noted about when you initiate with H. What about him? Is he initiating? When he does, are you enjoying it or are you just going through the motions? Are you getting orgasms? If so, just the one, or multiples? Are you getting any intimate non sex time together? Finally, do you feel like if everything else stayed as is, if you never had sex again, that it wouldn't be a bad thing? Mind you that is intended to be only your point of view, not his. His is not important in dealing with your issue, even while it is for the overall marriage.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I personally know a shockingly large amount of women who are feeling this way, concerned with what to do, & nobody (by that I mean the experts & society), is addressing it with any real solution.


Just to be clear I'm not trying to add guilt or shame you in this discussion. I just want to make sure we're talking about things with as plain language as we can.

On the other topic, I was asking if perhaps you had taken it farther with these men (or wanted to) and you were trying to gauge how people online would react to the "milder" sexting as a sort of thought experiment for testing how your husband would react to this news. Pure speculation on my part.

As for the sexting, I do think you are going to need to grapple with this behavior -- even if its "in the past" -- because for most husbands what you did counts as an act of infidelity. Not for everyone, but you obviously haven't told your husband about it because you know how he would react. The way most husbands would react. Also putting it "in the past" doesn't mean much for betrayed spouses. The past was ten seconds ago.

Just curious, how do you think your husband would react if he knew you had engaged in sexting conversations with other men?

On the issue of your loss of attraction for your husband, I do think this is a problem we should acknowledge in your age group among women, and I brought it up in my other posts. I think it happens a lot. It used to be called the "7 year itch" and I think it can happen for a variety of reasons. It seems to particularly happen to women.

The median duration of marriages that end in divorce is about 7 years.

And divorce rates peak around 10-12 years of marriage.

Women initiate more than 70 percent of all divorces.

All of these facts seem to point to something.

That's where you are now.

Some of it is hormonal, some other factors.

The most common factors, to me at least, seem to be a lack of "game" from the husband and the wife on the other hand expecting her husband to be a mind reader. This leads to increasing distance and loss of intimacy. It's a two way street. The wife wants to be wooed. The man knows how to do this or they wouldn't be together, but life has grown busy. The wife thinks the husband can read her mind. He can't.

Another factor is the loss of what some writers would call "polarity" - if the two of you in the marriage are relating to each other less as man and woman and more as business and childcare partners, the polarity is reduced. It gets boring and tepid pretty quickly.

One practical suggestion is simply to have more sex even when you don't feel like it. It's a "fake it until you make it" thing and the body does often seem to respond.

The sad thing about the 7 year itch -- or in my case when a woman allows her perimenopausal confusion and mood swings to overtake her -- is that things could be so much different if a woman stays faithful and sees this particular storm through. She'll often come out on the other side, snap back to herself and see her marriage and partner with fresh eyes and desire.

Throwing in the towel or going to another man for a quick orgasm won't solve anything -- and it will ensure your relationship with your husband is permanently altered and possibly damaged beyond repair. The survival rates for marriages after a single act of infidelity that has been discovered drop off a cliff after about 5 years. 

And many middle-aged divorced women report high dissatisfaction with their decisions to unilaterally open the marriage or to divorce the husbands they incorrectly thought for a brief time they were no longer attracted to.

Post menopausal "invisibility" kicks in, and if I recall at least one study indicated middle aged divorced women experience less and less intimacy over time.

The last thing I'll say is maybe your husband needs to get his head in the game more and become more of a man you'd be attracted to. It suck that this is always on a man's shoulders, but it is. Is he someone you'd be interested in or intrigued by now? He should try to be that person for you.

And then I can ask the reverse: Are you someone he'd be interested if you met now? Are you bringing your A-game?

Then finally, there's still this issue of seeking attention from other men. I would highly recommend you check out the book "Not Just Friends" for some insight on this.

You sound like an intelligent and creative person. I bet you can think of other things you can do to reignite intimacy, if that's what you want.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> Hi, I just joined this group Bcz I don’t really know where else to turn. I’m 40, married 10 years & I love my husband. He’s my best friend & a great guy. I don’t want to divorce. My issue is that I have zero interest in having sex with him anymore. I WANT to but it either doesn’t enter my mind day-to-day, or when it does, it’s like I’m forcing myself.
> Sometimes I do initiate. But only when I’ve “pre-gamed” on myself so I could get in the mood.
> I thought maybe my libido was shot & I should see a doctor or something. But I’ve also sexted with other men to get my motor running ahead of time...then initiated with the hubby. So it appears libido is not the issue. And while it works talking to other men (even if not about sex), I feel guilty about it. We’ve tried the standard advice...toys, fantasies, etc. But I just can’t seem to get into it. I didn’t want to talk to my friends about this so I’m hoping this is a safe space.
> I guess my question is...Is this just how marriage gets after awhile? (Please say no).


"I don’t really know where else to turn" - have you tried Jesus?
"But I’ve also sexted with other men" - this is adultery
".Is this just how marriage gets after awhile" - no, marriage grows and gets better over time, just like people do

There are truths to marriage you do not yet understand. Right now you are imprisoned by the lies of satan and the rules of this world. If you put down your fantasies and get involved in your local bible-teaching Jesus-loving church you will discover a life worth living and a new fire for your husband as you both take on the world with a greater purpose!

I pray you will both change today!


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

A few of you have responded with some Thoughtful responses & additional questions which I appreciate & am happy to answer. 

The 7 year itch...yup. That’s when it started. That’s when I lost interest in sex. It hasn’t gotten better. I’ve been hoping it is a phase that will pass. 

Regarding my husbands part: no. He very rarely initiates sex but never really has (except for in the beginning of our relationship). It truly doesn’t appear to be as important to him as it is for other men. That’s why now I just initiate once a month or so. That actually seems to be enough for him. Or at least, he hasn’t complained. I don’t suspect infidelity on his part. He’s too busy & works from home so I would know.

Is HE making a big effort? Ummm...not really I suppose. He works. A LOT. He’s on call all the time. Even when he’s not working, he’s thinking about work. We discussed this in marriage Counseling & he has tried to work on it to varying degrees of effectiveness. We have date night, etc..,but really, he just feels like my friend/roommate/partner rather than a sexual mate.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> A few of you have responded with some Thoughtful responses & additional questions which I appreciate & am happy to answer.
> 
> The 7 year itch...yup. That’s when it started. That’s when I lost interest in sex. It hasn’t gotten better. I’ve been hoping it is a phase that will pass.
> 
> ...


In one sentence, what exactly has made H unattractive to you so much that you detest sex with him?


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> In one sentence, what exactly has made H unattractive to you so much that you detest sex with him?


I think the word “destet” is a bit harsh. I don’t destest it. I just have no feeling toward it. It doesn’t enter my mind other than to think “oops. We havent had sex in a month. I should probably take care of that”.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I think the word “destet” is a bit harsh. I don’t destest it. I just have no feeling toward it. It doesn’t enter my mind other than to think “oops. We havent had sex in a month. I should probably take care of that”.



But that's not an answer, kindly. 

What, in one sentence, is keeping you from feeling sexual towards your mate?


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But that's not an answer, kindly.
> 
> What, in one sentence, is keeping you from feeling sexual towards your mate?


It’s a good question. But if I’m honest, I don’t know how to answer it. I genuinely don’t know. If I did, I would have addressed it directly by now.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> It’s a good question. But if I’m honest, I don’t know how to answer it. I genuinely don’t know. If I did, I would have addressed it directly by now.


If you don't know, your H certainly doesn't know.

If you don't want to answer, it's ok. I have an inkling you do know, or are looking for a reason you can use to justify fooling around. 

Have you really gone to a MC?


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If you don't know, your H certainly doesn't know.
> 
> If you don't want to answer, it's ok. I have an inkling you do know, or are looking for a reason you can use to justify fooling around.
> 
> Have you really gone to a MC?


With respect, I feel like maybe you are projecting your own insecurities or marriage issues onto my situation. I’ve given no reason for you to think I’m lying. This is an anonymous forum. I have no reason to lie or not answer directly. But don’t you think if I could sum up my problem in one sentence, I would have addressed it by now? Especially when we were with the therapist? 
I’m only on here looking for direction...ideally from someone who has been in my situation.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> With respect, I feel like maybe you are projecting your own insecurities or marriage issues onto my situation. I’ve given no reason for you to think I’m lying. This is an anonymous forum. I have no reason to lie or not answer.
> I’m only on here looking for direction...ideally from someone who has been in my situation.


Ok, that's why I'm asking. It's atypical that a spouse cannot convey a specific reason that tops their list in why they aren't sexually attracted to their SO.

Why can't you expound on the main reason?

This is only to help you to focus on what the problem is, so a solution can follow.

Unless you don't have one. You just don't want to be tied down anymore. That can be a reason.

And a MC would have broached this same topic if went to a MC.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ok, that's why I'm asking. It's atypical that a spouse cannot convey a specific reason that tops their list in why they aren't sexually attracted to their SO.
> 
> Why can't you expound on the main reason?
> 
> ...


We went to the counselor over a year ago for only a few sessions. Not much came of it. She basically said it was a phase that many couples go through & to stick it out (not in so many words, but she really didn’t offer much more than that).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> We went to the counselor over a year ago for only a few sessions. Not much came of it. She basically said it was a phase that many couples go through & to stick it out (not in so many words, but she really didn’t offer much more than that).


So, with a year to think about it, what say you?

Why?

Again, kindly, it sounds like you just want your freedom, and it really doesn't have anything to do with H.

Pls correct me if wrong, but there is/are reasons I'm sure you do have.

It may be hard to say if it doesn't reflect flattering to you but if you're earnestly looking for solutions you need to state your reasons at least to yourself.

I'll ask again, because you're deflecting. 

What is the main reason?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So, with a year to think about it, what say you?
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


I’m not sure that she is actually deflecting or just not sure if her top reason would have any validity with other people.

Her main complaint here may be that he snorts a little when he laughs or that he eats the baked potato peels at the table. 

When someone loses that living feeling, it’s not always some significant acts of abuse or critical neglect or anything.

What is your primary reason for not wanting to have sex with gal that works the evening shift at your corner Quick Trip? 

If your not attracted to someone, a chipped tooth or some grunge under a thumbnail or the fact they locked their keys in their car for second time this year is all it takes to turn them completely off. 

I think if he was abusive or adulterous or neglectful or smelly, she would have told us a long time ago. 

You can keep putting her feet to the fire but I think when she actually tells you what her primary complaint is, it is likely not going to be something that you would necessarily agree with or understand.

It may seem completely trivial and nonsensical to the rest of us.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> That actually seems to be enough for him. Or at least, he hasn’t complained. I don’t suspect infidelity on his part. He’s too busy & works from home so I would know.


A lot of the time, a "wayward in the making" (if you will allow me the term for a moment) tells themselves things about their mate's internal thought processes that are not true. You're trying to read his mind here. What if he desires you more than you think he does, but he believes he's gotten signals from you that you aren't attracted (and he wouldn't be wrong, would he?) 

What if he doesn't initiate because he feels ashamed or sad you don't DESIRE him? 

What if he wishes you would initiate more as a salve to show your attraction to him?

These are all possible, but I'm merely speculating. And so it seems are you. "seems to be enough for him" "he hasn't complained" 

You're in a very common rut. There's a way out. It's not too late. 

Tell him what you want. Say it verbally with words coming out of your mouth with as much love as you can muster. Tell him about your libido issues. See if you can both reignite your attraction for each other. 

The worst path is going down the path of attention from other men. Adultery is hellish for everyone involved.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not sure that she is actually deflecting or just not sure if her top reason would have any validity with other people.
> 
> Her main complaint here may be that he snorts a little when he laughs or that he eats the baked potato peels at the table.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm saying. There's something.

And if OP doesn't know, H surely doesn't know, he's operating blind and in the dark through no fault of his own from what is being shared here at least.

At some point H should just call it, and say no matter what he does it's not getting better, and just save himself. Cut her loose. It sounds like a poor, not well rounded M that's not working for him.

He may be planning an escape even now.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

I’m not even sure I HAVE a primary reason. Maybe just little stupid things that have added up over the years so that I no longer find him sexually attractive? I don’t know. That’s the closest I can come to an answer. I can’t imagine I’m the only married person in this situation.
Objectively, he’s an average to good looking man. It’s not like he’s a mutant. (And no, he’s not abusive, toxic, etc). He’s a great guy. I just don’t want to have sex with him. And as much as Ragnor continues to push me for an answer wrapped up in a tidy bow, I simply dont have one. Or at least, one hasn’t come to light.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> OP here...thank you all for your input. I don’t mind being the bad guy here. I know I’m not innocent in all this. Over a year ago, a normal (non-sexual) online conversation took a sexual turn two separate times...I did not initiate either one, but I should have stopped myself earlier. There is certainly no shortage of men (single OR married) who are happy to start a sexual conversation. As I mentioned in a previous response, I run a large online group & chat privately often with both men and women. We get to know eachother quite well. Twice I let it get too far, but I had countless opportunities to.
> 
> Honestly, no longer being sexually attracted to your husband is a problem for a lot women in my age group as far as I can tell. I see many posts from the man’s POV...his wife has no interest anymore & asking what to do. I’m not seeing many posts from the female angle. I don’t mind being the scapegoat here for all frustrated women.
> I personally know a shockingly large amount of women who are feeling this way, concerned with what to do, & nobody (by that I mean the experts & society), is addressing it with any real solution. We’ve been to marriage counseling. I’d love to say that lighting candles & buying new lingerie is doing the trick. It isn’t. I’ve tried all the standard tips & tricks. Role playing, etc...he seems to enjoy it. So that’s nice, it doesn’t help my issue though.
> ...


I really do think that you are undervaluing the importance of a good sexual relationship and desire for each other in a marriage. All the other "many parts" pale into insignificance if you are not sexually attracted to each other. You have admitted that you are attracted to other men but not your husband. This is going to fester. You are right in that there are not many reports from women on this subject. They put up with it. However, everything that you are saying tells me that your marriage is over and that it is just a question of when you take things further with another man (or men). This will cause a lot of pain and eventually disruption/dissolution of your marriage anyway. 

So again I ask, why not just get divorced, give your husband the opportunity to find someone else that desires him, and you free yourself to go pursue other men for your sexual gratification. I do not agree with your statement about marriage being made up of many parts ....


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's what I'm saying. There's something.
> 
> And if OP doesn't know, H surely doesn't know, he's operating blind and in the dark through no fault of his own from what is being shared here at least.
> 
> ...


ok. Well, maybe this is something. He’s not operating blind Bcz he sees absolutely nothing wrong with our situation. He’s happy in our marriage & seemingly with our sex life (at least, he hasn’t complained). So no, he’s not blindly trying to find a solution Bcz he doesn’t think there’s a problem. Really, all I’ve been sayimg since the beginning is that I don’t find my husband desirable anymore. For no particular reason. Time, life, jobs, etc...all of it has added up to my no longer feeling it. i assume you must be in a similar situation with your wife since you are so certain there is a simple reason/solution & refuse to believe it’s possible to just lose the spark for no particular reason. Also, you’ve made more than one remark about suspecting I’m lying when I have no reason to & have been open & honest throughout. I find that offensive & disrespectful. I’m done replying to you since it’s going nowhere & at this point is feeling like a personal attack.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

manfromlamancha said:


> I really do think that you are undervaluing the importance of a good sexual relationship and desire for each other in a marriage. All the other "many parts" pale into insignificance if you are not sexually attracted to each other. You have admitted that you are attracted to other men but not your husband. This is going to fester. You are right in that there are not many reports from women on this subject. They put up with it. However, everything that you are saying tells me that your marriage is over and that it is just a question of when you take things further with another man (or men). This will cause a lot of pain and eventually disruption/dissolution of your marriage anyway.
> 
> So again I ask, why not just get divorced, give your husband the opportunity to find someone else that desires him, and you free yourself to go pursue other men for your sexual gratification. I do not agree with your statement about marriage being made up of many parts ....


I respect your opinion but I don’t agree that there aren’t more parts of a marriage than sex. What about love, affection, support, trust, non-sexual intimacy, dreams, hobbies, beliefs, ethics, on & on. If the only issue is that my H doesn’t do it for me in bed anymore, I don’t think that’s worth a divorce. Especially since he doesn’t have a problem with sex once a month & It’s so common for this to happen around the 7 year mark that there’s actually a name for it. 

I don’t see many (if any?) women commenting on this thread so at this point I have to assume I’m just triggering a bunch of men who have either been cheated on or are sexually frustrated. It’s not helping me to sit here defending myself.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

So you're sandbagging your H?

Are you saying you have such a serious problem with him, that you're sexless with him, yet he's unaware you have this problem?


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

I do want to say - don't give up hope. I'm headed for divorce 4 years now after my WW's DDAY after her physical affair. It often takes that long and longer for a faithful spouse to get over the trauma and think clearly. My wife is now going through her period of mourning now that she acknowledges our marriage was good and she doesn't want divorce. 

I don't regret trying to reconcile, and I don't regret moving forward with divorce either. But I take no pleasure in broken families or marriages split apart. I think the evidence for humans being monogamous is strong and I think we were meant to live in a sanctified union of one flesh. You can be secular and see it pretty much the same way. 

I mention my wife's grieving over a good marriage she killed not to depress you but to impress upon you instead. She told herself a lot of false stories about reality. She could have turned and worked on the marriage. She chose a different path instead.

You can do the honest, ethical thing and work toward a divorce now. I do want to make sure you understand that many women who are where you are now and who elected to divorce later regretted it very much - the phenomenon is similar to what my wayward wife is going through now (only without the cheating). They look back and understand things about the marriage they denied to themselves. They want it back. 

Once you've given it away, through infidelity or divorce, it can't come back. Or at least it rarely does. 

I'll make a pitch here that you consider going to a Retrouvaille weekend, which would then require a commitment of many months. 

This is Catholic in its origins but is easily secular as anything else. Many people swear by it and it has healed all sorts of marriages with all sorts of grave problems. 

You will be astonished at the honesty and rawness of those running it, and what they have been through. 

Think about it.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Hang in there, OP. Things can get better no matter what you decide to do. 

I'm sure some women will be along shortly. This isn't populated with frustrated men. I'm not frustrated even tho I'm dealing with one of the most momentous decisions most men or women can ever face.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I personally know a shockingly large amount of women who are feeling this way, concerned with what to do, & nobody (by that I mean the experts & society), is addressing it with any real solution. We’ve been to marriage counseling. I’d love to say that lighting candles & buying new lingerie is doing the trick. It isn’t. I’ve tried all the standard tips & tricks. Role playing, etc...he seems to enjoy it. So that’s nice, it doesn’t help my issue though.


Psychology books suggest that some people struggle to mature beyond the "wanting to be wanted and needing to be needed" means of sexual validation from someone very attractive and fertile. Eventually we all grow old, infertile, wrinkly, loose most of our hair, have cellulite, and become the gold standard of what is considered not attractive or fertile. Yet the potential to enjoy sex during the later years has far more potential than those of youth. What is it then that some couples have that others do not? 

Some would suggest it is all about the means of how one achieves sexual validation. It is no longer about wanting to be wanted or needed to be needed. It is a form of sexual validation that becomes free of that, independent and differentiated from that of a spouse in a way that compliments the relationship. 

How does someone enjoy sex with someone that is getting older and does not seem to care that much about enjoying sex? Must it feel like eating bland vegetables and healthy salads were even the croutons and cheese are withheld? ... everything must be nurtured and requires effort. Perhaps it is as if learning to cook with new spices and new ingredients made from pure wholesomeness. No vibrators, no lingerie, no erotica, no fantasy nonsense. Just simple sex that is pure, basic, and simple. Less is more. 

I am not joking that these days I can make an awesome salad that to me tastes better than a cheeseburger all the way from Five Guys. It is all about learning ingredients and how to cook them. Imagine healthy spinach, cilantro, lime, pepper, grilled salmon, onion, tomato, black beans, topped with seasoned sautéed corn. That salad doesn't just show up effortlessly for lunch. It has to be planned, prepared, and served with fresh ingredients (purchased that morning or yesterday). At some point your salad gets better than any meal that could be ordered in a restaurant and is best enjoyed together as a couple. You could enjoy your salad for one as well. 

WTF Badsanta we are talking about sexual desire! Well my point being is that every woman at some point has been on a diet and learned to hate salads because of how boring and bland they can be. Then there is that woman (or her husband) that gets all excited about salad recipes and no one seems to care or listen because "everyone" knows salads are boring. Same thing!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Then there is that woman (or her husband) that gets all excited about salad recipes and no one seems to care or listen because "everyone" knows salads are boring. Same thing!


Somewhere in there I left out the part about what sexual validation looks like as it matures. It is no longer about wanting to be wanted or needing to be needed. It is about no longer needing to be wanted nor wanting to be needed. It is about being happy with who you are as a person and choosing to "enjoy" sharing that with the one you are with. Sometimes sharing those things with enthusiasm may require planning, communication, preparation and effort so that your partner can join you all the way. 

At some point it will make NRE sex will seem like a bland salad. (New Relationship Energy)


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's what I'm saying. There's something.
> 
> And if OP doesn't know, H surely doesn't know, he's operating blind and in the dark through no fault of his own from what is being shared here at least.
> 
> ...


He 'has' been told, many times.

The ball is in his court, his balls are locked down tight in his shorts.

He sounds asexual, which is fine, but not so fine with his wife.

Give the busy man an ultimatum, and mean it.

Tell him, get better, stay better, or I'm out.

If the divorce happens, part, parcel amicably.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I don’t see many (if any?) women commenting on this thread so at this point I have to assume I’m just triggering a bunch of men who have either been cheated on or are sexually frustrated. It’s not helping me to sit here defending myself.


There are some very wise and knowledgeable women here and I am sure a number will be along offering their insight soon.

The catch is very few of them are in your exact shoes and few have no desire for their husbands.

Most are here because their husband has lost desire for them or they have been cheated on. 

Few LL women are regular on this site because most LL women are perfectly happy to never discuss or even think about sex again.

For that reason, I am glad you are here. I’m sure you are feeling a little kicked around here but I think your perspecoand testimony can be very beneficial to the group. I hope you stay and continue to participate disputes the jabs you may take here and there.

If it makes you feel any better, we have all taken our jabs and kicks to the teeth here LOL. 

I also want to add that I think one of the reasons you have been grilled so hard on why you have lost attraction for your H is that for most of our lives, we men have been told that any problems in our relationship or sex life is basically OUR FAULT and that we are the reason our partners don’t want us any more.

We are either too horny or too loud or too aggressive or too sexually oriented.

Or we aren’t assertive enough and don’t have enough drive or passion. 

Or we have gotten too far or we are too skinny.

Or we dress like slobs and are unkept or we are too vain and spend too much time primpingband preening. 

If our partner doesn’t want us it is because it is some WE have done or that we have not done.

We are also fixers. Give us something broken and we fix it. 

Something being our fault actually gives us some hope because if we have screwed something up or did something wrong, then we should be able to fix it right? 

In a way it is troubling and intimidating for some to hear a woman say she simply lost attraction and desire for no discernible reason. Through no fault or action/inaction of our own. 

How do we fix that????????

I think that is at least part of the reason some have put your feet to the fire to cough up the reason why. 

We do want to fix it and in a man’s world, if something ain’t working, there is a reason for it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It's common to lose interest in sex with your spouse after a few years. Some of it is habituation, some of it is boredom and lack of anything new or exciting, some of it is your partner's lack of interest in you, or genuine low libido (as seems the case with your husband). Sometimes going on an adventure together (classic example is whitewater rafting) will help and as you need to work together it can improve your bond. However, such things are probably a temporary fix in most cases. Spend enough time on forums like this, and you'll see how common this problem is - although a fair number seem to avoid it, but that may be due to greater overall compatibility (esp. sexually) or just luck. Anyway, unless there is a hormone problem for one or both of you that can be mitigated, there seems to be little that can potentially fix the problem.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> We do want to fix it and in a man’s world, if something ain’t working, there is a reason for it.


The older and hopefully wiser I get, the more I think the real reason that 40 year old women that have been married for 10+ years lose desire for their husbands is because they are 40 years old and have been married to them for 10 years. 

It’s not his fault. 

Nor is it yours really. 

This just simply happens to millions of people. 

You are far from alone. You’re the norm IMHO. You’ve just been a lot more open and upfront about it and that has riled some people. Their mothers, sisters, wife’s, daughters etc have all gone through it too. They just didn’t admit it openly.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I’m not even sure I HAVE a primary reason. Maybe just little stupid things that have added up over the years so that I no longer find him sexually attractive? I don’t know. That’s the closest I can come to an answer. I can’t imagine I’m the only married person in this situation.
> Objectively, he’s an average to good looking man. It’s not like he’s a mutant. (And no, he’s not abusive, toxic, etc). He’s a great guy. I just don’t want to have sex with him. And as much as Ragnor continues to push me for an answer wrapped up in a tidy bow, I simply dont have one. Or at least, one hasn’t come to light.


I'm a female.

Well there you have it in the post I quoted. Add to that he is happy with sex once a month. Have the two of you actually talked about the once a month sex, and has he actually said that once a month is enough for him? It could be that he isn't attracted to you either, and once a month is all he can take because he is not attracted to you either. He may also be getting his need met somewhere else.

I think that you must come clean and tell your husband about your sexting over the years in order to get in the mood for him. That conversation will most likely kick start your marriage to change direction, whether to improve things, or to end the marriage all together. As it is, you have admitted to having several emotional affairs, even if you didn't call them that. Telling your husband about them will give him some important information so he can either address his own frequency or decide if he wants to be married to you at all.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Looks like the OP and her husband visited an unoriginal/unmotivated therapist, or did not lay the situation out in enough detail. Perhaps they should try again and carefully choose a new therapist.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> ok. Well, maybe this is something. He’s not operating blind Bcz he sees absolutely nothing wrong with our situation. He’s happy in our marriage & seemingly with our sex life (at least, he hasn’t complained). So no, he’s not blindly trying to find a solution Bcz he doesn’t think there’s a problem.


So the obvious question is what is the problem here then? 

If he is seemingly ok with everything and there are no other pressing problems in the marriage and he isn’t whining and moaning about enough sex or calling you out on your lack of desire - what is the problem?


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> So the obvious question is what is the problem here then?
> 
> If he is seemingly ok with everything and there are no other pressing problems in the marriage and he isn’t whining and moaning about enough sex or calling you out on your lack of desire - what is the problem?


I suppose the problem is that I would like to WANT to be with my husband. He doesn’t complain no, but he’s also not exactly fighting me off. Maybe the real issue is that I don’t feel wanted by my husband. So much so that I’ve sought that feeling elsewhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> It’s a good question. But if I’m honest, I don’t know how to answer it. I genuinely don’t know. If I did, I would have addressed it directly by now.


This phenomenon is actually all too common. You have seen anecdotal evidence with yourself and many you know but it is an alarming reality for a large portion of the female population.

The book I advised deals directly with it.

It sounds like your husband could definitely be doing more on his part.

I'm nearing 50 and can't imagine not initiating and not needing some sex more than once a month and it sounds like he might not even notice if you stopped altogether?

How old is he again?

What kind of shape is he in?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> OP here...I appreciate all of these comments. Even the ones that are taking a hard stance against me & my actions.
> What exactly are you questioning? I’m happy to answer anything open & honestly (it IS an anonymous site after all).


Dear SM;

Some advice from someone who has stayed married for 49 years.

First stop the sexting to other men. The real reason is that after a decade or so, you spouse can read your body language, your facial expressions and the tone of your voice. He knows you have no interest in him sexually. At what point do you think he will start exploring your phone and when he sees those sexting messages, you can kiss your marriage good by.

Now why are you sexting other men? You need to look in the mirror and figure that out fairly quickly. I suspect that you are really and deeply unhappy (sexually) with your marriage and you are "testing yourself." That is you are subconsciously testing how much you want to remain married. Far to many test themselves and find that they didn't live up to their ideals. Some subconsciously want to end their marriage and don't have the strength to do that so they cheat or take steps toward cheating until they are discovered and their spouse ends the marriage. Have you ever heard cheaters say that they loved their spouse and they just went out for a drink and one thing lead to another? Well that is what testing is about. Soon you may decide to go out for coffee in a hotel restaurant and then "one thing will lead to another." You need to figure out why you are doing this destructive activity.

Now you say you want to stay married to your H. Well, I would suggest you read MW Davis book on Divorce Busting. You might also read her book on the Sex Starved Marriage. You can't change your H only he can change himself, but you can change yourself. If it is low libido start doing affirmations (self hypnosis) on how wonderful he is, how sexy he is, how much you sexually desire him, How you forgive him for anything he has done to you that makes you feel less loving, how much he makes you feel sexy when he holds you. How much you get turned on by just kissing him or running your hands through the hair on his head or chest. You can possibly change your own sexual desire by affirmations and gaining energy. The best way to gain energy is sleep, exercise, and a good diet. M.W. Davis believes in the Nike approach to sex. Just do it. The reason is that the more you have sex, the more sex hormones and especially oxytocine (the cuddling & trust) love hormone are releases that promote emotional bonding. 

If you have had yourself checked out medically and there is nothing physcially wrong, then get some individual counseling. Good luck.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I respect your opinion but I don’t agree that there aren’t more parts of a marriage than sex. What about love, affection, support, trust, non-sexual intimacy, dreams, hobbies, beliefs, ethics, on & on. If the only issue is that my H doesn’t do it for me in bed anymore, I don’t think that’s worth a divorce. Especially since he doesn’t have a problem with sex once a month & It’s so common for this to happen around the 7 year mark that there’s actually a name for it.
> 
> I don’t see many (if any?) women commenting on this thread so at this point I have to assume I’m just triggering a bunch of men who have either been cheated on or are sexually frustrated. It’s not helping me to sit here defending myself.


I wish more women would. I have studied this but the women who are currently here might not fit in your category.

I have absolutely seen your situation and done research but I'm obviously not a woman or in your situation.

I hunt Mrs Conan relentlessly and she definitely responds with passion and heat even into year 30.

Do you have the opportunity to watch your husband do something he is good at away from the home?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I suppose the problem is that I would like to WANT to be with my husband.
> 
> He doesn’t complain no, but he’s also not exactly fighting me off. Maybe the real issue is that I don’t feel wanted by my husband.


These two things may not be unrelated. 

Feeling wanted and desired is a large part of our own want and desire. 

Could be that he also laments the lack of desire and passion and his lack of passion and initiative is related to yours. 

This all turns into a chicken vs the egg but how it started isn’t as important as getting back in track.

This is an area that good counseling and therapy can help with.


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> Maybe the real issue is that I don’t feel wanted by my husband. So much so that I’ve sought that feeling elsewhere.


Well now we’re getting somewhere. Do you think your loss of desire could be driven by a sort of grief you don’t feel wanted yourself? And what if you perceive as his loss of desire for you is driven by his perception he doesn’t feel wanted by you? It’s a stupid feedback loop. Maybe you both need to drop the walls and stop being closed off from each other. You might surprise yourself. Be willing to be weak with him. Tell him what you want.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Thumos said:


> Well now we’re getting somewhere. Do you think your loss of desire could be driven by a sort of grief you don’t feel wanted yourself? And what if you perceive as his loss of desire for you is driven by his perception he doesn’t feel wanted by you? It’s a stupid feedback loop. Maybe you both need to drop the walls and stop being closed off from each other. You might surprise yourself. Be willing to be weak with him. Tell him what you want.


It’s worth giving some thought to at least. This is the first time I’ve been confronted with this possibility so I guess I need to wrap my heat around it a bit.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Thumos said:


> Well now we’re getting somewhere. Do you think your loss of desire could be driven by a sort of grief you don’t feel wanted yourself? And what if you perceive as his loss of desire for you is driven by his perception he doesn’t feel wanted by you? It’s a stupid feedback loop. Maybe you both need to drop the walls and stop being closed off from each other. You might surprise yourself. Be willing to be weak with him. Tell him what you want.





Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> It’s worth giving some thought to at least. This is the first time I’ve been confronted with this possibility so I guess I need to wrap my heat around it a bit.


This, this, and more this. What @Thumos said. You can end up circling the drain really quickly and neither one of you sees it coming. Be honest. Be vulnerable. 

Get back to what brought you together. Think about whether this is someone you'd want to spend the last 5 years of your life with. Would he be there for you? Would you be there for him? If your marriage has a soul, I think the answers will be yes. But that's not enough to make it happen. Approach him and have the conversation.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Thank you to those of you that took the time to help me look at things differently. Until now I honestly hadn’t realized that maybe I pulled away Bcz I feel unwanted. I’m not certain where I’m going to go from here but it’s certainly given me food for thought.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> Thank you to those of you that helped me look at things differently. I’m not certain where I go from here but it’s certainly given me food for thought.


Where do YOU want it to go? You started this thread saying-


> I’m 40, married 10 years & I love my husband. He’s my best friend & a great guy. I don’t want to divorce.


Have things changed since you started this thread? Because now it seems like things could head in a different direction. What would be your preferred outcome if there were no negative side effects?


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Where do YOU want it to go? You started this thread saying-
> Have things changed since you started this thread? Because now it seems like things could head in a different direction. What would be your preferred outcome if there were no negative side effects?


For now I’m just sitting with this information yo get used to it. I suppose some open conversations are needed on both our parts. And maybe back to couples therapy (with a different therapist lol)


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I respect your opinion but I don’t agree that there aren’t more parts of a marriage than sex. What about love, affection, support, trust, non-sexual intimacy, dreams, hobbies, beliefs, ethics, on & on. If the only issue is that my H doesn’t do it for me in bed anymore, I don’t think that’s worth a divorce. Especially since he doesn’t have a problem with sex once a month & It’s so common for this to happen around the 7 year mark that there’s actually a name for it.
> 
> I don’t see many (if any?) women commenting on this thread so at this point I have to assume I’m just triggering a bunch of men who have either been cheated on or are sexually frustrated. It’s not helping me to sit here defending myself.


I certainly did not say that there aren't more parts of a marriage then sex! I said you are underestimating just how important to a healthy marriage a good and satisfying sexual relationship is and that if you don't have that, then even if all the other parts are OK you are still going to have a crappy marriage and an unfulfilled life. Lack of sexual attraction to your spouse or vice versa is very justifiable grounds for divorce and maybe you should consider it if you are attracted to other men but not your husband. That would be far less destructive than cheating.

It also seems that now you have gone from not feeling attracted to him (through no fault of his as he has been a good husband in every way) to feeling unwanted and him not being as interested in sex with you as you would like him to be. This is a substantial change from your original post which suggested that this was not the case - that in fact he wanted to have sex with you but was blissfully unaware and oblivious to the fact that you were faking it and did not feel attracted to him. So now its suddenly his fault?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> In one sentence, what exactly has made H unattractive to you so much that you detest sex with him?


Dude where did you get that? A lack of interest is not repulsion or detesting. She went to 0, not into the negatives.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> A few of you have responded with some Thoughtful responses & additional questions which I appreciate & am happy to answer.
> 
> The 7 year itch...yup. That’s when it started. That’s when I lost interest in sex. It hasn’t gotten better. I’ve been hoping it is a phase that will pass.
> 
> ...


So here is the big question then. If he is not worried about the lack of sex, then why are you? If you are both happy with where your marriage is, and neither one of you is having a problem with the frequency, or lack thereof, what is the problem? Sounds like you're more caught up on the idea that he needs sex, than his actual needs.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I suppose the problem is that I would like to WANT to be with my husband. He doesn’t complain no, but he’s also not exactly fighting me off. Maybe the real issue is that I don’t feel wanted by my husband. So much so that I’ve sought that feeling elsewhere.


So then, are you thinking that you don't want your husband as a reflection of him not wanting you? And if so, then maybe you are dealing with a vicious cycle.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> So then, are you thinking that you don't want your husband as a reflection of him not wanting you? And if so, then maybe you are dealing with a vicious cycle.


I think it’s at least part of it. Worth thinking about anyways. I don’t think it’s fair to say that’s the ONLY problem here. But it might be the root cause of me totally shutting down toward him sexually. Like you said, a vicious cycle. I’m not fully ready to say “yes! That’s all it was!” But it’s worth exploring.


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## Sugarmagnolia14 (Nov 2, 2020)

I won’t be back on this forum after this post. Thank you to those of you who were genuinely trying to help even if you didn’t understand my perspective fully. You’ve given me things to consider moving forward.
While I appreciate those of you who were trying to help, there were others who were projecting their own issues onto me, making me have to defend myself, justify my feelings, or just getting me all riled up. Some people like a good debate! But I’m not one of them. I don’t enjoy feeling angry & I don’t like being rude or snappy at others...even strangers. And yes, I know, this is what happens when you open up your personal problems to the internet at large. This is the first forum I’ve joined & I think public forums are just not for me. I wish you all the best with your own marriages.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I won’t be back on this forum after this post. Thank you to those of you who were genuinely trying to help even if you didn’t understand my perspective fully. You’ve given me things to consider moving forward.
> While I appreciate those of you who were trying to help, there were others who were projecting their own issues onto me, making me have to defend myself, justify my feelings, or just getting me all riled up. Some people like a good debate! But I’m not one of them. I don’t enjoy feeling angry & I don’t like being rude or snappy at others...even strangers. And yes, I know, this is what happens when you open up your personal problems to the internet at large. This is the first forum I’ve joined & I think public forums are just not for me. I wish you all the best with your own marriages.


Hoping success for you and read that book.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> *Many men look at porn to "get their motor running" in order to stand having sex with their wife *- or just do porn as a more attractive alternative. While OP's method is equally - or more - questionable, she's at least _trying_ to engage with her spouse, which is more than many women are doing in their sexless marriages. Short of him changing in some way for the better to be more attractive to her, or divorce, I don't have a better suggestion so far.


Thank you for this GREAT and VERY TRUE point!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> A few of you have responded with some Thoughtful responses & additional questions which I appreciate & am happy to answer.
> 
> The 7 year itch...yup. That’s when it started. That’s when I lost interest in sex. It hasn’t gotten better. I’ve been hoping it is a phase that will pass.
> 
> ...


I know the OP said she won't be back, but just in case, I wanted to add my opinion -- I believe THIS is the crux of it.

You, @Sugarmagnolia14, do not feel WANTED sexually by your husband, and that's affecting YOUR desire for him.
His lack of dedicated interest in sex with you isn't sparking any feelings of arousal for him in YOU. That's why the sexual conversations with other men are such a turn-on and help for you - those conversations remind you that you are a woman, are sexually desirable, and make you feel wanted...in ways your husband isn't trying to. 

This makes sense, because very few people can sustain excitement and desire for a partner who doesn't seem to be aroused by them in the first place! He might still love and desire you, but it's too subdued to get YOUR interest fired up.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Adelais said:


> Have the two of you actually talked about the once a month sex, and has he actually said that once a month is enough for him? It could be that he isn't attracted to you either, and once a month is all he can take because he is not attracted to you either. He may also be getting his need met somewhere else.


I think this is getting to the center of it. A couple certainly can't work together to solve a problem if they haven't acknowledged and discussed it. You need to bring this up and see what his take on it is.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Sugarmagnolia14 said:


> I won’t be back on this forum after this post. Thank you to those of you who were genuinely trying to help even if you didn’t understand my perspective fully. You’ve given me things to consider moving forward.
> While I appreciate those of you who were trying to help, there were others who were projecting their own issues onto me, making me have to defend myself, justify my feelings, or just getting me all riled up. Some people like a good debate! But I’m not one of them. I don’t enjoy feeling angry & I don’t like being rude or snappy at others...even strangers. And yes, I know, this is what happens when you open up your personal problems to the internet at large. This is the first forum I’ve joined & I think public forums are just not for me. I wish you all the best with your own marriages.


If you do come back, or for the benefit of anyone else thinking similarly after posting on TAM (or similar forums), keep in mind that the things people are projecting upon you are real life experiences, not theory and conjecture, and while much of it may be irrelevant, there may be something that hits home in a very real way. 

As for having to defend yourself, think instead of trying to define yourself. If the definition improves, the replies will be more relevant. 

I understand how easy it is to feel angry and end up sounding rude or snappy. But consider this- training yourself not to be that way... that's a pretty awesome skill to have in a relationship.

All the best with your husband-


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I know the OP has gone, and I get what she is saying.

A book I got a long time ago while trying to spice things up (when things started getting too routine/boring) was one recommended by some friends of our called "101 Nights of Great Sex." The idea was that as a couple you take turns making preparations to do something special and different that is done in a way to make the other wonder and anticipate something mysterious that will happen. The book contains step by step instructions for different ideas to prepare. At the end of the day I didn't particularly enjoy this book as most of the ideas within were rather silly in my opinion. I am someone that does not particularly care for surprises. I like to know what I am getting and and enjoy preparing myself to enjoy it. Even if it happens to be something similar again and again with slight variations.

But I did learn something from that book and it gets to what I think most women want.

*Women don't know what they want sexually, but they will know it when it happens. It is up to the man to provide her with some form of mystery and variety to keep her interest.*

This is what makes NRE so easy in new relationships. At first the man is a big enigma that seems so exciting and enticing. But at the end of the day most men are simple and it is only a matter of time before that is revealed and the relationship is boring and void of desire that needs to be fueled with some form of mysterious adventure. All Bob wants is to watch sports all day, and as for Harold he was obsessed with working on old cars and always smelled of motor oil. Both were seemed exciting when first meeting them, but at the end of the day each were about as boring as watching paint dry.

Compare formal wear. All men wear tuxedos for all formal events. Meanwhile finding formal wear for a woman is a different story. She will not know what it is she wants until she sees it, and someone will have to help her dig through tons of stuff until something sparks joy. Once she has worn it, then it is yesterday's fashion and something new will be needed. Meanwhile the tux is still good to go for years to come!

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

badsanta, I have concluded something not all that dissimilar from what you've posted. There's a very good book called The Way of the Superior Man which outlines how any man can follow the path your professor described -- which is being driven by your mission and living an interesting life on your terms. It sounds like the art professor wasn't all that broken up about a series of women coming into his life and then deciding it wasn't for them. That's pretty much Way of the Superior Man in a nutshell. It might happen that a woman comes along and decides to really get on board. If not, no big deal.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Thumos said:


> badsanta, I have concluded something not all that dissimilar from what you've posted. There's a very good book called The Way of the Superior Man which outlines how any man can follow the path your professor described -- which is being driven by your mission and living an interesting life on your terms. It sounds like the art professor wasn't all that broken up about a series of women coming into his life and then deciding it wasn't for them. That's pretty much Way of the Superior Man in a nutshell. It might happen that a woman comes along and decides to really get on board. If not, no big deal.


I edited my reply and took out the part about my college professor in favor of comparing the how genders choose formal wear differently. My previous post was a little more harsh towards women than I actually feel. I don't think any gender is more superior than the other or should strive to be. 

As for my college professor he also embraced failure as the only way someone can truly learn something. Perhaps he failed in his love life because he wanted to really learn about the ways of life. Nothing wrong with that. We could all use a little more failure in our life as long as we embrace the opportunities to learn from it. 

If your idea of superior however means being unafraid of failing, then I'm all for that!


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## Thumos (Jul 21, 2020)

The “way of the superior man” is not about being superior to others and it is certainly not misogynistic


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## damo7 (Jul 16, 2020)

We are sexually attracted to the new. The dangerous. It's nature. Choose being a good wife, a good mother, or choose sex.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

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