# Angry and Controlling



## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

A bit of a back story...

April 2012, my husband picked a fight with me from out of nowhere and said things to me that were cutting and cruel. I was devastated, bedridden for a week in pain and confusion. I spent the entire summer limping through life trying to scrape together a divorce plan while protecting myself from further emotional harm. I had to get out because the truth was, it wasn't the first time it had happened, and I knew it wouldn't be the last. As the years went on it was actually getting worse.

In September 2012, my husband woke up to the fact that I was growing stronger and suspected that I was planning to leave. I told him I was. He begged me for a second chance, apologized for "everything" and asked for a fresh start. I told him that I would give him a second chance on condition we enter MC.

November 2012, he reluctantly entered MC. We spent 6 months working on our relationship and had reached, last month, a place of forgiveness and commitment to work towards a better future. There was intimacy, sharing, love, openness. I had hope for the first time in years.

It was short lived - last week I discovered he was having an EA, and it was carrying on during our MC, and even after we'd found this new place of love and reconciliation. 

But it wasn't the EA that has convinced me to leave my husband, but the way he behaved in response to being called on the carpet for it.

The first thing he did was to accuse me of being hysterical, having anger management issues, etc. However, the entire time I had remained perfectly calm, hadn't raised my voice and did not say anything other than to lay the facts on the table and press him for accountability. Where's the hysteria?

So the next thing he did was to tell me that I'd made a mountain out of a molehill and was choosing to see him in the worst light rather than trust him and see his intention of just pursuing friendship. I said I was wiling to call our MCs, his sister, our friends and ask them to offer their objective opinions about the matter. He balked.

The third thing he tried was to tell me that I have failed to consider all of the things that I'd done to drive him into this friendship. To which I reminded him that we had reached a place where we agreed to forgive and forget, we were sharing and renewing vows....and he can't say his physical needs weren't met. Tell me, then, what exactly did I do to make this happen?

The fourth thing he did was to launch into personal attacks but that didn't last very long, because for every criticism, I just shrugged and said, "But that doesn't make what you did right." 

The final thing he did was to get haughty, scream at me how sick of my sh!t he is, he's finished with me, his marriage vows were a mistake. And then he proceeded to treat me like I was no better than the dirt on the bottom of his shoe.

This, ladies and gentleman, is an abusive man. He has never hit me, but the abuse is as clear as day. All of these tactics, and more, have been his way, for years, to subjugate me. And they've worked! But not anymore. 

What he hasn't counted on is that, now that I am aware, I can kick his #$% eight ways to Sunday. I have spent 8 years giving and giving, trying and trying, for what I thought was love, and now I see that no matter what I could have done, it has never been about me or love. It's been about him, his need to control and his sense of entitlement to do so.

In the past year I've read a few recommended books about verbal abuse, narcissistic personality disorder, gaslighting, etc, but the best book I've found to date is "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. This guy spent 20 years counseling abusive men, and has more insight into how their minds work than anyone else, and even blows the lid off of a lot of the myths surrounding abuse that lead traditional counselors down dead end paths when dealing with these men. By sheer luck this book fell into my hands last week - the right place at the right time.

For 8 years I have been picked apart, criticized, belittled, neglected, lorded over, and have been expected to cater to my husband's every need while he contributes very little towards mine. I spent most of these years in a daze, living in pure confusion because the loving man that he was before we married turned into the complete opposite once I said that vow, and I have been utterly ruining myself to figure out _what I did wrong_.

So I wanted to post this because I've seen a few threads here written by women who I suspect may also benefit from this book the way I have. I have chosen to leave my husband, and I'm OK with that. This won't be so much a divorce as an escape.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

You're my hero. Seriously. After all that you went through in your marriage you made it through to the other side. You are such a strong, courageous and resiliant woman! And I never heard of that book and it would probably be a wonderful asset to anyone, even if they are not dealing with an angry or controlling person....yet. 

Thank you for sharing your story. 

I'm heading off to Amazon now......


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## bailingout (Jan 25, 2013)

I just wanted to say thank you for your post. It describes many conversations I have had with H almost exactly. 

I have also read that book and found it very informative. 

The one thing I will say to you is----Before you get involved in another relationship, you may want to look deep inside yourself to figure out why you were attracted to and why you attracted such a person. 

Good luck to you.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

great post, Urban. Good for you. I'm glad you're leaving him. So many stories here of women and men who hang on, despite abusive lousy relationships, because they would feel like a failure, or giving up, or not staying true to their vows. I'm glad that you have reached the point that you have enough self esteem left to realize all that you did. good luck.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Urban said:


> A bit of a back story...
> 
> April 2012, my husband picked a fight with me from out of nowhere and said things to me that were cutting and cruel. I was devastated, bedridden for a week in pain and confusion. I spent the entire summer limping through life trying to scrape together a divorce plan while protecting myself from further emotional harm. I had to get out because the truth was, it wasn't the first time it had happened, and I knew it wouldn't be the last. As the years went on it was actually getting worse.
> 
> ...


WOW! You just described the 28 years I spent with my STBXH, including the EAs and PAs, which was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.

It's liberating to leave and I have no regrets at all. He is a sad, pathetic man and I am finally coming out of my shell and feeling great.

I wish you the best, and I am confident that you too will be happy with your new life. :smthumbup:


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

GOOD FOR YOU!!


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear this. I was in a similar marriage. Good for you for getting out!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm sorry you have gone through this, but I'm so glad you are finally getting out of it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Bravo!
:allhail:


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

^^That's a link to the google books preview. The book helped me too. Helped me to stop walking on eggshells and to stop pitying my husband and attributing his bad behavior to having been abused by his father and not knowing how to empathize. No, he behaves this way because *it works*, it gets results that he likes.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

Thank you so much for your replies. I can't tell you how much they mean to me. 

My emotions are running the gamut, from empowered to maudlin to downright fearful. My fears are not about life after divorce. I am terrified of getting out.

Basically, I'm stuck. I live in a foreign country and my entire career is here. If I were to move back to the States, I would have to start over completely from scratch, with nothing. I'm not sure if I can even make a living back in the States doing what I do. My career edge is that I am very specific to this location. Not to mention if I brought my son back to the States then I'm dealing with international joint custody, which I don't even want to think about.

At the moment I have a "green card" application that has been in limbo for over a year. Last year when I saw a divorce lawyer he said that I should hold off on divorce proceedings in case it effects my residency application negatively. So I wait, every day, for this to come through. It looks likely I will get it, it's just a painful waiting game.

Then there's our housing issue. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. I can not afford the rental on an apartment of my own, so I can't move out before our apartment is sold. But local housing laws say that we can't sell it until November of this year. (it's complicated)

And given local divorce laws, the divorce probably won't be settled until January 2014 anyway. So I could be looking at continuing to live with my H up to 10 months after filing for divorce while going through the process. 

Did I mention that my husband is abusive? I am so screwed.

So basically, what I'm feeling most these days is fear. Everything that I've read about abusive men says that once they know you're leaving, they'll turn up the heat, and I'm scared. They also say that once you see through their current arsenal, they'll switch it up to keep you reeling.

That, coupled with the fact that my husband is highly admired within his field and is well known. He has made it very clear over the years that he is "not comfortable" with me talking about our relationship with other people, so I'm pretty fairly intimidated by that. But it's not like I have family or a big support system of friends to run to here anyway, and well, I just feel trapped.

Every day is just getting by one day at a time, and I realize now that it's always been that way because I never know what to expect. So yeah, I can talk a good game about kicking his a$$ eight ways to Sunday, but the truth is he's got me cornered. I just don't know how I'm going to get through this.

How am I going to survive this? I wish I knew.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't know where you are so it's hard to say. Is he a US citizen? 
Have you told him that you want a D? If not I wouldn't say anything. 
Can you get IC? Do they have resources for domestic violence victims there? 

Is your name on the lease? 
I would try to talk to domestic violence experts there and get legal advice specifically for that. 
It could be that you can separate and he has to pay you child support so you could afford your own place. If he makes more than you he could also have to pay you spousal support. 
It's just too hard to give advice when we don't know what the laws are there. 

If you can't get out, I would play my cards close to my chest. It's very common for them to not want you to talk about it because they know they are wrong. 

If need be you could invent a mystery
illness. Not to degrade people who actually have these but something like fibromyalgia or chronic pain, a viral syndrome. Something that will give you an excuse not to do things with him and to be alone. 

Is he going to be suspicious if you don't want to have sex? Because ouch, your fibro is just so bad...


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

(((((Hugs)))))

I lived in a foreign country with my husband (Muslim country) where I did not even have my own visa- I was on his. When I wanted to leave he said, "go, but the children stay". He could do that because of their laws (and I was too dumb to realize I could go to the American Embassy and get help).

Honestly Urban, I wonder if he set the situation up to trap you? Its all part of the control.

I'd rather be a pauper in the USA than ever cross a boundary line into a foreign country where women (or foreigners) have no rights. If I was you, I'd come back here ASAP. Do you have family or friends you can come back to till you get on your feet with your career?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

You might contact the American embassy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Urban said:


> Basically, I'm stuck. I live in a foreign country and my entire career is here. If I were to move back to the States, I would have to start over completely from scratch, with nothing.


So what? 

Contact the Peace Corps and tell them you want to volunteer for a year before you return to the States. Or contact Americorps (sp?) and volunteer in the States. By the time you finish, you'll have great street cred.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My DD22 briefly dated a controlling guy in high school. Afterword, she decided to do a school project on abuse and started researching. She found that WDHDT?ITMOAACM is virtually the bible on abuse. I've been recommending it (and women have been thanking me for doing so) for the last 6 years. It is a wonderful book and sorely needed. I wish girls would have to read it in high school.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Can't take kids on either of those. Also if you are married PC has to interview your spouse to make sure they support you.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

What is ITAAOCM?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ITMOAACM: Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

diwali123 said:


> Can't take kids on either of those. Also if you are married PC has to interview your spouse to make sure they support you.


 I'm sure she can find plenty of other organizations who will take her. 

And I'd assume she's already divorced.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

Urban said:


> A bit of a back story...
> 
> April 2012, my husband picked a fight with me from out of nowhere and said things to me that were cutting and cruel. I was devastated, bedridden for a week in pain and confusion. I spent the entire summer limping through life trying to scrape together a divorce plan while protecting myself from further emotional harm. I had to get out because the truth was, it wasn't the first time it had happened, and I knew it wouldn't be the last. As the years went on it was actually getting worse.
> 
> ...


It was very nice of you to share your story. I've had friends and coworkers who finally chose to share that they were in abusive relationships. A few were able to walk away, some are *sigh* still there with their husbands. So it always gives me pleasure to hear someone was able to free themselves. 

I have a friend whose husband was the nicest guy in the world until right after the wedding. He started talking down to her while they were on the honeymoon. Two weeks into the marriage he started yelling at her and calling her names. At six weeks into the marriage, she filed for divorce, and never looked back.

I hope your story will help another person recognize that they do not have to live this way. Good job!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Some resources you may be able to use where you are, Urban:
Help for Abused & Battered Women: Domestic Violence Shelters & Support
Citizens Advice  - the charity for your community
Abuse - Mind
https://www.gov.uk/domestic-violence-and-abuse
https://www.justice.gov.uk/legal-ai...egal-aid-divorcing-separating-abusive-partner
Helping Abuse Victims


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

Oh, I am so glad I'm not living in a Middle Eastern country, I've heard terrible stories not unlike Blonde's. It's good that you got out! And yes, I think every girl should read this book! I have a few teenage girls in mind to receive copies.

Sorry to be so secretive but I am so paranoid! I do live in Asia, but not MidEast. Actually, where I live is very cosmopolitan, and women have good status, and divorce courts are very good to women here. I have an IC who knows divorce law, and he assures me it's on my side.

Trouble is, I don't want to leave here. I spent my formative years here with my parents and then later came back on my own to pursue a dream to work and live here because I loved it so much. This is my dream, well, except for the abusive husband part. Actually, if not for our sick relationship, in every other way I love my life!

I guess my real issue is being stuck in this house with him for months and months. I'm scared that with so much time for him to chip away at my self-esteem that I'll be in pieces by the time all this is over. I also do not know what he is capable of. Do I think he'll ever hit me? No. But he's got a big psychological arsenal. 

Already you should see him, he's Super Dad which I'm glad about because normally he's neglecting his son, but now all of a sudden I'm the bad guy because I'm the one who makes the kid eat his vegetables do his homework and brush his teeth. Dad is all about video games and TV and ice cream. H has really, really pumped up the public relations campaign since this last fight. I think this Mother's Day is going to be a downright saccharine fest.

A poster had asked before about what I could have done to be attracted to this guy and to have attracted him to begin with. Y'know I've been mulling this one over quite a bit. 

Sure, I have my self-esteem issues, but I don't think they're any worse than anyone else's. In the beginning he was just an amazing human being. My father had treated my mother like crap, and this guy was exactly the opposite (ironic, right?) I even remember my father objecting to our engagement because he was disappointed that my pick wasn't more like him! My H and I talked, we communicated, we were open and everything just worked so smoothly between us. It was brilliant, everything I'd ever hoped to find. (of course now I know that Too Good To Be True is often exactly what it means...) And I think I was perfect bait for him, single girl, family halfway around the world, no real huge influences in her life - he basically wrote the script of how I'd be as a wife. I was a piece of clay for him as far as marriage was concerned. 

Once we were married, the abuse started small, I was confused but never would have labelled it abuse. I also had no support system to keep me grounded and say, "He's doing WHAT?" Then again, he's never wanted me to ever talk to people outside our marriage. First rule about fight club...

Over the years he turned up the heat at increments, until now I'm the proverbial frog in the boiling pot. I'd say my fatal flaw was that all along I have spent all this time trying to make sense of it, but I've been looking at it from the point of view of a rational person while my husband's just been using a completely different playbook. I wish I'd have realized this sooner. But, the water wasn't boiling yet, right? I am also too tenacious for my own good - I'm the scrappy little fighter who doesn't quit! (sigh)

So yeah - naive, trusting, unclear boundaries, no strong support network, scrappy fighter, I think I was a walking target for someone like him. 

Anyhow, you guys have been wonderful for posting and encouraging me, sharing a bit about your stories (of hope!) and offering advice. I really need it, and I think I'm going to be leaning on TAM for the journey, if you'll all have me, LOL.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

First of all, you are one hell of a writer.

I have read that book. I wanted to understand my dad and his relationship with my mom. He never cheated but he was controlling and verbally abusive. I remember having a lot of stomach aches listening to them fight. My mom is gone now and my dad is in his 80's, but I still wanted to understand him when I saw that book. Thankfully, my H is wonderful and nothing like this.

Can you use exposure as a leverage? He would hate to have his reputation tarnished. You're going to deal with a lot of his crap until D, but maybe he'll prioritize and let it go to have his reputation stay intact? Just a thought? Do you feel physically safe? You should probably have if-then scenarios worked out so that you and the kids are safe no matter what happens. These men can be unpredictable and unbalanced. Better to live a pauper in the US and be safe.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yes I agree, you are a wonderful writer! 

If you were to separate could he be responsible for paying you child support so you could move?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Urban, I have been in your shoes. How to get away - that is the question.

First off, for now, keep your intentions and plans to yourself. You want out. You will get there.

Second, do you have a close friend(s) from work who may be able to assist you in alternate housing? Can anyone offer you a place to stay and/or recommend a safe place for you to live locally? I was extremely lucky. My BFF also intended to leave her spouse due to substance abuse and was looking for a place to live. We ended up agreeing to be roommates (share rent and expenses) and found a nice place in a good neighborhood to live together. Because she has been a friend for 20+ years, it is like living with a sister. We get along great with no stress and lots of laughter. Do you have someone similar to confide in?

Third, once you have a new place set up, then you gently inform your H that "you need space". Promise him all kind of stupid stuff (yes, we can date...lol) in order to keep peace in the household until you have your property removed from the household and into your new place.

Lastly, retain a good lawyer to protect your interests in the marital property. I assume that, even where you live, there is "constructive abandonment" in which you leave the marital home "with good cause" (safety) and that there is no penalty (in the distribution of marital assets) against you.

Good luck to you. Keep posting. Keep planning. Let your "wheels spin". Maintain silence as to your intentions in order to protect yourself. But, most of all, keep your eye on the prize. Freedom. I did it. You can do it as well. We are here for you to roll your thoughts to. Don't be afraid of change. You will be just fine without him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Being in a foreign country, the LEGAL route is your absolute most important step, ok? Figure out whatever that is, and do it.


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## Sussieq (Apr 6, 2013)

Urban said:


> Thank you so much for your replies. I can't tell you how much they mean to me.
> 
> My emotions are running the gamut, from empowered to maudlin to downright fearful. My fears are not about life after divorce. I am terrified of getting out.
> 
> ...


You have to determine if you want to continue to live like this. Men who are controlling choose women they know they can control. Did you see any red flags that you ignored before you married him? Did your family support the marriage. Are you in his native country? Do you want to stay in this country?

The things you see as obstacles can be broken down, but you must be willing to fight for what you want. Starting over in your career for your piece of mind and safety shouldn't be viewed as an obstacle. For goodness sake, don't take abuse. I'm a firm believer in defending myself matter what. If a man was looking for a woman to control, he wouldn't choose me because I'd make him a believer.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Urban, I'm curious... You said you've gotten stronger. How? 

And if you were able to do that despite your husband's behaviors, why do you believe he has the power to break you down again? You *can* uphold your self-esteem. Yes, it's easier with friends and family, no doubt, but you can do it! 

As someone else said, hold onto that exposure card and don't let him bully you. At the same time, consider that he's not always wrong, either.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

KathyBatesel, if I am stronger it's because I have knowledge. I've spent the past year reading and learning and paying attention. This past incident, when I confronted my H about his latest EA, for the first time I was able to disconnect from his rage and deconstruct all of his arguments and see them for the manipulation that they are. That knowledge, and the ability to observe with detachment, gave me a sense of clarity. I have also come to accept that, yes, I can leave.

But I wish I felt like that all the time. Truth is, it's an emotional rollercoaster. How can a person love their abuser? Because for years I have held so tightly on to hope. Hope that I will find that man I married once again. That if I can only make him understand, then he will know. That's the drug of it. He shows me glimpses of that man and I ache. Sometimes it's not the rages that are scary and confusing, but the kindness in between.

And I think that's the hook of emotional abuse. 

On any given day my emotions go from love to hate, pain to pity, hope to fear, confidence to self-doubt. I'm not so sure my problem is self-esteem. It's that I have really truly loved and hoped. With each step I take to get away from him, I am grieving a loss of love and hope - not his, but my own. 

But one step at a time, I'm continuing to learn and grow and observe. And I can say that the emotional rollercoaster I feel now is not as terrifying as what I felt last year. Or the year before.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you getting out and doing things for yourself? That is vital - you MUST have that lifeline.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

turnera, yes and no. Yesterday I took a huge step forward. I met a friend for lunch and opened up about my marriage. I specifically chose a friend who is strong and confident and trustworthy. She was brilliant in her support. Smart, grounded and caring, and she told me that if I ever need a pep talk to get me through it, she's there for me. 

It was weird, though. I know that breaking the secrecy is part of undoing the chains, and I was hoping that taking this leap would make me feel stronger, circling the wagons, so to speak, but it had exactly the opposite effect! 

After our 3 hour talk, I came home and was emotionally drained and exhausted, and riddled with guilt. I felt like I had betrayed my H, and done him a grievous wrong. And I think that had a lot to do with my maudlin post previously. Ugh. It is so hard to stay on solid footing.

I'm an introvert, by and large, but in the past half a year I'd found a volunteer opportunity doing something challenging that I absolutely adored. And I was very good at it, too. But recently I told them I needed to take a break. The work requires a great deal of mental energy and confidence, and I'm worried that the coming months of fresh divorce hell might make me erratic emotionally, ups downs and all in betweens. I bowed out because I don't want people to think I'm a flake - to have people depending on me and then I arrive and fall apart. You know what I mean? But still I miss it, and my son was so proud of me for doing it too.

I'm really hoping it gets easier as I go.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it may have been more fear than guilt. The guilt you feel is what HE has wrought in you.

Every time you take a step to take your life back, the next step will be that much easier. Eventually you'll get to the point where you wonder why you waited so long to leave, because you won't recognize that person you used to be.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

turnera, I'm looking forward to that day!

Still waiting for notification about my visa status. The emotional rollercoaster continues. Tonight's mood: anger.

H is in "nice mode" (as nice as he can be - as if buying me a Snickers bar will make up for screaming at me that marrying me was a mistake.) I'm seeing the whole cycle play out again. After one of his rages, he treads quietly around me, doing a small nice thing here or there. Trying to make small talk as if nothing happened. Testing the waters to see how mad I am at him. Mind you, he's never even hinted at an apology for his EA, hasn't even acknowledged my hurt.

In between, he's doing passive-aggressive things. He knows I'm bothered when he has someone stopping by the house but doesn't tell me, so I'm blindsided by a knock at the door. And still he does it, three times already this week. I remind him to inform me, and I get shrugs and half excuses.

The past few days he's been finding reasons to disturb me to help with with this or that. I think he almost enjoys it.

The passive-aggressive behavior spills over onto our son. H has been winning the child over with video games and movies, something that he knows I try very hard to put boundaries on. This has been an issue with us forever. I just get so sad to see my child choose a screen over real life. So when H wants to get to me, he smothers the kid in video games and DVDs, Look what Daddy got for you!!! Aren't these so Awesome??? Woo Hoo!!! and gets the kid all wound up over them, then hands them over like crack cocaine. Then while the kid sits pie-eyed on the console, Daddy just goes back to his Facebook or whatever. Nevermind that Daddy ignores him the whole time, Daddy's the hero! And if Mommy says anything then, Boo, she's the bad guy. 

The other day my son got home from school and the first words out of his mouth were, Can I play video games? I told him I thought we might make a stop animation movie instead (we've done it before and he's loved it). It took coaxing to get him even interested, but then once he got started it was fun, we were making an epic Lego Star Wars battle scene, and mid way, as soon as he heard Daddy's key in the door, I swear that kid just ditched our whole thing and ran to my H, "Daddy's home!!! Daddy's home!!! Can I play with your iPhone?!!"

And of course, I'm always the bad guy because I am the only one who provides boundaries, guidelines, structure. I'm also the mom who is creative and adventurous and curious, but I can't even compete with a stupid Croods game app. It would be a lot easier for me, too, if I wasn't just so moody from all of this crap going on with my H. I'm so worried that by the time I'm finally out of this hell, that kid will worship his father and detest me.

Every day I hope and pray for that visa because this limbo is pure hell!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have fun with it. Do the opposite of what he expects you to do. 

AS for son...calmly and gently take the game out of his hands and say 'You get 30 minutes a day on electronics; you've passed that up, the toy goes away now until tomorrow.' Put it where he can't get it and give it to him the next day. If H goes and gets it, the next chance you get, take it to a neighbor's house or a neighbor's trash bin.

I pretty much took over raising my DD because her dad would do that. I just stepped in, took the thing away and said you need a limit on electronics for YOUR well-being. Here's the limit. Any time dad tried to override that, I would say in front of both of them, 'there's a reason you have a limit and we aren't changing it.' It just never occurred to DH to counter that. You're a woman but you can still be strong when it comes to decisions about your son.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't think that he will hate you. 
I would be careful about stirring up more conflict at this point. IIWY I would just let it go. You don't want to raise any red flags. 
You aren't going to be able to dictate what they do in his house. But you can in yours. 
We have a vastly different parenting style from either of our exes. My stepsons have hardly any rules or structure at their mom's house. They stay up as long as they want on weekends. 
Their mom lets them sit and play video games all weekend because she's lazy. We get out and do fun things. They still love their dad and I think they appreciate the time and attention. 
It will work out.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

LOL, turnera. This past weekend H made plans for the three of us to go to an event together, where I was expected to play the loving wife role while he made an appearance. When I tried to bow out of it, he looked me in the eye and said, "You will go!" and that was his last word on it. As the day approached, the anxiety was gut wrenching. That afternoon I laid in bed and just couldn't get up. I felt so sick, I couldn't move. He ended up going without me. I don't think he was expecting that from me, and I didn't do it deliberately, but as I laid there I realized that in small ways I can quietly maintain my autonomy. Like what you said about switching my expected reactions, not necessarily to mess with him, but to defend my needs. I don't like passive aggressive tactics, but I think I will need to develop some strategies to fend him off. He knows too well that I always try to choose the high road and do what's "right". I need to learn better how to do what's "right for me". 

diwali, re: stirring up conflict. I hear you. When I find myself feeling angry, I have to keep reminding myself Don't Let Him Suck You Back Into The Drama. To stand and fight means that I actually feel that there is something here left to fight for. But my goal is not to be in this marriage slogging it out, it's to be out of it living my life. I just have to keep repeating this like a mantra. Ohm ohm ohm...

I usually am firm about the videos/games, and I am fair. But when I see my son standing there, looking back and forth between mom and dad while we're in a standoff I feel bad for the kid. He observes. He gets mixed signals. But yeah, I see what you're saying about maintaining calmness and standing my ground. Very good advice. I just have to keep thinking long term.

I wonder how common it is for people in troubled marriages to dread weekends!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I feel good at work; dread coming home.

Re: your son. Be the parent. You do him no favors now or for the future if you cave just because he looks sad or you feel bad for him. Good parents PARENT, they don't make friends with their kids or bribe them. Will he pout or cry or tell you he doesn't love you? Maybe. But a good parent rises above that and SHOWS him good core values, like doing your homework before getting a video game or eating veggies before ice cream. Just hold firm to what you know he needs, and he'll be fine.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And it doesn't have to be a standoff. That's what I'm trying to say. You just calmly, quietly take it out of his hand and hand him a book to read. No need for a standoff. If H tries to get in your face about it, you again calmly, quietly get the car keys, grab your son, go out the door, and go to the library or a store or something.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks, turnera. I appreciate your advice so much!

Deep breath... Deep breath...


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

Congrats on getting on that situation and realizing what was going on before it got even worse. You are a inspiration to us all. I give you tons of kudos for what you have done.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I want to add, however, if you think making such a change with your child right now would bring out the abuser in your H, just wait til you are away from him.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

turnera, I took your advice, and it worked.

My son knows that his time for TV/video games is in the evening. Around noon I went to the market, and when I got back an hour later, he was in my H's office watching videos. I rapped on the door, and S opened it, with guilt smothered all over his face and glancing nervously at his dad. H was buried in a project and didn't even look up. 

I very calmly said, "Want to come eat lunch with me?" and then I said, equally calmly, "I see that video up there. You know, there's a reason why video time is later. So you have the whole day to play and be creative and learn and do stuff that you can't do with your face in front of a screen. You can always watch that later."

H just said, "go, have lunch," and my son gladly did. After a nice lunch we made drawings together, played games and had a laugh, and did his homework and then when the time came, he went back in and got his video time with his dad. 

I've had to be very careful with my consistency lately, because my mind is often a million miles away and underneath the surface my moods are all over the place, and I know S can detect it. H and I are cold and distant, and it's impossible to hide. He's felt us hot and cold for years, and I can't even begin to imagine how he's made sense of it.

But just wanted to say thanks for the advice. It's so hard to stay grounded through all the insanity!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Very well done! I'm proud of you!

As long as you keep it not as an attack on H, you should be fine.


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## Urban (Mar 29, 2013)

I thought I might update, because a lot has happened and I always appreciate the insight here.

First off, I still don't have my "green card" so that plane is still circling the runway, and the waiting is torture.

And though I've been playing it close to the chest with divorce plans, the emotional rollercoaster has been pure madness. So the other night I wrote a letter to my H about how much he's hurt me. I don't know, it has bothered me to think that I will leave this marriage without his ever really knowing why. I want him to know why. 

Well, the next morning when I woke up he was waiting, ready to have it out with me. He was arguing every point belligerently, he was just awful. It was more of the same. High horse, stone wall, etc 

After all the shouting, I laid it out how the divorce would go down, the process, timeframe, custody issues, housing issues, etc. He was very concerned about our son and he disagreed that divorced-but-happy parents are better than together-but-miserable ones. I told him, nope, I'm not buying the guilt trip. I'll create the kind of home I want to live in, and I'll make it by myself.

So at the end of that talk, I left the room and was sitting on my own, thinking. Then after some time had passed he joined me. "Truce" he said. And then he sat down and talked to me, and the way he spoke, his body language, the tone of his voice, the look in his eyes, it was completely different. The defenses were down, and I could see that it was "the real him" who was present - does that make sense?

We talked for close to 2 hours, and it was a completely different conversation. It was like we had a clear channel directly between us, with no obstacles, no posturing BS, no drama, we just spoke plainly. 

After all is said and done he does not want to split up, and so I told him I will change my mind if he promises to keep this clear channel open for me no matter what, and I promised that I would do the same for him. So our first, and most important, task will be to practice and protect this clear, open line between us.

In addition, he's agreed to do His Needs Her Needs with me, within this clear, open space that we're going to create. He's not a self-help book kinda guy, but I was never the self-help book kinda girl until this past year when I turned to books for answers and found a lot of wisdom out there that I'd previously overlooked. 

We went to the bookstore together yesterday and bought it. The table of contents itself looks like the kind of conversation starters that we need.

So I think that a couple of things happened here. I think my H was shocked by the divorce talk. The extent to which I spoke about the details made it clear to him that this was a plan of action and not just some fleeting idea. And, after all my divorce preparations, logistically and emotionally, it looks like the winds have changed direction and I may have something to work with in the Reconciliation department.

TBH I know it will take some time for me to trust this and to trust him, but I think that if we can continue to reach each other in this open space, we may have a chance to make some real changes for the better, for both of us.

Then again, I could just be completely delusional. Only time will tell, right?


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