# Question for men



## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

If your sex life started to suffer because your wife was no longer interested in sex and you found out that the reason for this was because your wife no longer felt an emotional connection with you because of arguments, not feeling loved or supported by you, etc., would you be willing to put your sexual needs aside and concentrate on the non-sexual aspects of the marriage first? Would you be understanding that there are certain things your wife has to feel from/about you before she can give herself to you this way? Would you think it important for your wife to continue to have sex with you (going through the motions) at the same time that you are working on becoming a better husband to her? 

Thanks for your time.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Wow, I guess I should take 74 views with no reply as a 'NO WAY!'


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm a woman but this kind of links in to my thread "initiating intimacy v initiating communication ???" from a few weeks back.

I hope you get some replies. I can really relate to this and your other recent thread.

C'mon guys!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You and your wife are having the chicken/egg discussion where both of you believe the rightness of your wants.

Empasse. Someone has to blink.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

michzz said:


> Empasse. Someone has to blink.


Yes, someone has to blink. And I have a feeling that most men hold sex as being such a high priority that they are unwilling to blink even if it means throwing their marriage away.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Advocado

I really hope for some answers too..You bring up an interesting question in your thread also.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am a woman, I think you BOTH need to be exerting effort at the same time- to some degree. If you can just get him to AGREE to do this & be faithful about it, this should make it a little easier to please him. But if you want him to only work on what you want, then he will start to feel some resentment, not to mention growing more sexually frustrated. I don't think many women understand this "feeling". I have been on both sides of this feeling, so I feel I can speak for the "man". 

IF he is one hell of a NICE guy -he may accually do what you are suggesting -- Only you know How much Love & understanding is coming from HIS end. If he is not getting it, I feel you you may have to go above & beyond with him -while he is trying/making an effort to please you & your needs. 

Do this for yourself (in the meantime) if you are struggling with feeling sexual "Desire" & closeness for him: 

If you have "Move Maker" on your computer, usually a free program, take the time to scan & copy many of your favorite dating pictures, wedding photos, good memories when you were HAPPY, put them in order into this program , add your favorite LOVE song, and watch this back together. It may take you both by surprise , flooding you with what you once shared together. 

I did this one night, WOW, it really affected me in a Gooooood way . I also made one for a friend of mine, they do have some marital problems, and she told me "He cried" watching it. It did bring them a little closer, for awhile anyway.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

SA:

I have already attempted the route where we both exert effort at the same time...he became happy again and so did I but then I became miserable again because his effort stopped. After his effort stopped, so did mine. Back to square one.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Considering how the majority of women enjoy and respond to a male displaying leadership in the relationship it's really up to the man to set the standard of the relationship interaction.

Or jerk off. Whatever is easier. Just sayin'


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Well I can say yes. I have been doing exactly that for nearly a year now. OK to be fair it wasn't really becasue my sex life was suffering (it was/is) but rather because I found she was having an emotional affair. While I can say my wife has been working on things as well... and she will verbalize to the counselor that she want to have a good sex life with me ... the lack of sex for 5 months makes it pretty difficult to believe.

Quite frankly it makes believeing that she even likes me difficult at times. So... I guess what I'm saying if it is possible to communicate, do so, let him know the things he does that hurt you. If he brsuhes them off as "you shouldn't be hurt by that" simply tell him that you understand why he might not think it should hurt, but it does. Tell him you really don't beleive he is doing it to hurt you, but it does. 

Just to be give you a heads up. While a woamn in this situation feels like the guy is just using her as a warm orifice. The guy feels like the woman is using sex a a tool to either punish or reward with...or to get what she wants with (actions, things..money). HE feels if she loved me, she would WANT to be with me. 

It's funny but a guy in this situation is often wondering why women like to say sex is for LOVE and that men think it is just for LUST, because from this point of view he feells HE is the one associating SEX with LOVE and that SHE is simply using it like a Comodity, a reward/punishment system, certainly not love.

Not saying that is real but if you take the time to look, there is often quite a bit of APPARENT reality there. 

In the end as with most things...communication is the key to getting it worked out. It really helps when both can admit they were not being thier best AND not blaming their actions on the other person.

Don't argue about who started this downward circle. Wether it was he pulling away from your emotinoal need or you pulling away from his needs (sex can be quite emotional as you know so don't pass it off as JUST his physical needs - God gave us hands for that)


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow, just re-read my post from last night and it looks like I'm putting all of this on you. Sorry, wasn't meant to be that, just trying to help you see "the other side".

I totally agree that he should want to work on meeting your emotional needs - just think it should be because he loves you, not 
to barter for some @ss. Likewise I think you should want to try work on meeting his needs because you love him, not because he somehow bartered for it.

Maybe the approach is - I know we are both not completely happy with where we are at in the marriage. while it is unlikely any marriage will ever be perfect I think we can make ours better if we want. I would like to know some things you would like me to do to make you feel more loved and respected. 

Of course think about your own list as well. Start small, pick out just a few of the things you think would help most. Present them in a positive manner. Like I used to love when you (or we) did this, it really made me feel ... I would love for that to happen again.

Is a lot easier to accept and hear than "Ya know you used to love me and do this, ya never do it anymore ya thoughtless [email protected]$$" LOL

Remember he has not been having these conversations with others (that we know of) and while that gives you major kudos in the wanting to work on your marriage department it also gives you a bit of an advantage on a decent way to do it. Just saying, you may need to coach him a bit on the nicer ways to say things so it is less confrontational and easier to hear.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

well said OneMarriedGuy

i have struggled with this issue for several years and i cannot figure it out. i have been fairly patient and have tried numerous approaches with my wife. while some things provide short term improvement, it ultimately goes back to "normal." with that comes a deeper resentment and my give a **** gets broken more and more

it has become my opinion that my wife (and maybe alot of women) are looking for a fairy tale marriage, they are raised to believe that "someday my prince will come", they may also be conditioned by someone in their youngers lives that sex is actually a reward and to not give in to your husband unless you are getting what you want.

i am not applying this as a blanket statement to the female gender, i have seen many instances where the behavior of a man would certainly make a woman shudder and not want to be intimate and i understand that. in those cases the problems are obvious and that man likely knows he isnt behaving appropriately.

if a woman isnt somewhat happy that her husband still strongly desires her and longs to be with her and only her in an intimate way, i find that curious.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks Onemarriedguy, seeing and understanding 'the other side' is one thing I really need to do right now. 

We have had those conversations in the past and things change for a little while but then go right back to the way they were. So, then I have to ask myself how many times do we keep attempting to get back on track just to fail again? I am sooo tired of having the same fights over and over again. I want my marriage to work, but I'm wore out.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

OneMarriedGuy said:


> Remember he has not been having these conversations with others (that we know of) and while that gives you major kudos in the wanting to work on your marriage department it also gives you a bit of an advantage on a decent way to do it. Just saying, you may need to coach him a bit on the nicer ways to say things so it is less confrontational and easier to hear.


Most definitely, he has not been having these conversations with others. If he did, I think I'd fall off my chair. For him to take the initiative and actually seek out answers and ideas on his own would really make a difference to me in the way I feel he sees the marriage.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> it has become my opinion that my wife (and maybe alot of women) are looking for a fairy tale marriage, they are raised to believe that "someday my prince will come", they may also be conditioned by someone in their youngers lives that sex is actually a reward and to not give in to your husband unless you are getting what you want.


Maybe some women do have an unrealistic expectation of marriage. And though I know that some women really do use sex as a weapon, I have found that I really just cannot bring myself to engage in sex with a man who says he loves me but makes me feel alone emotionally. Now on the other side of that, my H and I were watching TV together one night and there was a thing on one of the channels that sell stuff and they were advertising a computer. I made the comment 'Wow, that's a cool computer, I wouldn't mind having that' and he said 'What's it worth to ya?' - What does THAT say??


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

jtk said:


> Now on the other side of that, my H and I were watching TV together one night and there was a thing on one of the channels that sell stuff and they were advertising a computer. I made the comment 'Wow, that's a cool computer, I wouldn't mind having that' and he said 'What's it worth to ya?' - What does THAT say??



that he feels like he isn't getting enough so he tried to bribe you?

maybe he was kidding, maybe not. it could be he is just completely clueless as to how unhappy you really are emotionally. that can be very difficult for men to figure out without truly hearing it from their wife. if you leave it for him to figure it out on his own, he likely wont because we just dont think remotely close to the same way. he gets blame for not seeing your unhappy and not asking why and then truly LISTENING to your answer.

i don't mean to be prying here, but do you like sex simply for the physical pleasure?


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

jtk -
I know you see the conversations happening and things getting better for a while and then going south as somewhat repetitive and bad - but I think it is probably a really good sign.

What that means is that the two of you are willing and desiring to make things better. It is just that old habits are hard to break and you slide back into them. 

I hate to do the old "Go to marriage counseling" thing, but really... It will cost WAY less than so many other things, like even a decent vacation, and the happiness and joy it could bring will WAY outlast the fun of even the best vacation!!!

Simply put, there are other things at play here. Putting some money into learning how to get past the strain and irritation of everyday life and to develop good habits of communication and loving is SO worth it. And if you have kids...showing them a good healthy, loving relationship is probably the best example you could give them towards giving them a shot at a healthy happy life!


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

jtk said:


> Most definitely, he has not been having these conversations with others. If he did, I think I'd fall off my chair. For him to take the initiative and actually seek out answers and ideas on his own would really make a difference to me in the way I feel he sees the marriage.


OTOH look at it this way ... this is much better than him having conversations about your marriage with a woman that he has a crush on and sexually flirts with.

Reminds me of this joke...
A little bird was flying south for the winter. It got so cold it froze up and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As it lay there in the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to sing for joy.

A passing cat heard the little bird singing, and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug him out-and then ate him.

The morals of the story are:

1. Not everyone who drops **** on you is your enemy.

2. Not everyone who gets you out of **** is your friend.

3. When you're in deep ****, keep your mouth shut!


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> i don't mean to be prying here, but do you like sex simply for the physical pleasure?


Yes, I do, but I don't want to be treated like an object. Sex and intimacy should mean more than just a release. Being bribed for sex is demeaning. Knowing him like I do, I seriously doubt that he was joking. The fact that he tried to bribe me for sex speaks to me loud and clear that IT IS just a release to him. He has told me that it's also a stress reliever. I truly believe that sex is a big part of a relationship BUT, I also believe that men place it waaay too high on their list of priorities. I'm really fighting with the whole sex=love idea that men have.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

LOL.

Good joke.

Anyway, I read this thread and I agree with the sentiment here.

To a certain degree. . .yes. . .the man should be able to abstain from sex for a certain amount of time to work on the relationship/emotional aspect. I was willing in my marriage, constantly blaming myself for everything.

Operative phrase - "to a certain degree."

IN the same breath, I would advise a man/your husband of "Don't let her lead you on for too long" like I was.

Let me tell you this - there will never be the day that the toddler wasn't fussy, that your boss didn't make a snide remark towards you, that more laundry couldn't be done, that the refridgerator needs wiped down and that your husband fulfllled your every emotional need, anticipating your fears and concerns and sadness on some level.

You know. . .some couples have fights every day. . .well every week. . .but you know what? At the end of the day, they get in bed and get busy.

That's the best man in my wedding. My dearest friends have interesting fights - like who was supposed to pick up the right kind of spagetti - ngel hair or linguine. . .yet at the end of the day, they have sex. (2-3x/week my friend tells me)

Why? Becuase they are mates and they are supposed to be mating.

Withdrawing sex only distances your husband (or wife). It should only be a short term solution and I probably wouldn't recommend it at all.

PS: The bribing thing. . .that just tells me he's desperate and trying to find anything that will get you on board the physical aspect. 

Why not try this? Have sex with him. In the minute or two right after he releases, his brain is awash in oxytocin, the lovey-dovey hormone. Tell him you love him and then communicate with him a little. I don't mean like start jabber-jawwing. . .sometimes less is more. . .just smile at him and tell him you missed doing this and can we talk about goals and plans after sex, that sort of thing. Maybe one goal of a vacation together or getting the backyard landscaped - something you could share in your life together.

PPS: Also. . .don't take the bribery thing so personal. A lot of married couples do that and it's normal. . .back when things were good with my stb-x, years ago, once in awhile, I would offer to fix the toilet in exchange for sex or something. It was okay. . .it didn't mean my stb-x was a prostitute or I was a John - it was just normal couple play and he's probably trying to just play with you in that way.

I think you are a bit overworked up.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

jtk said:


> Yes, I do, but I don't want to be treated like an object. Sex and intimacy should mean more than just a release. Being bribed for sex is demeaning. Knowing him like I do, I seriously doubt that he was joking. The fact that he tried to bribe me for sex speaks to me loud and clear that IT IS just a release to him. He has told me that it's also a stress reliever. I truly believe that sex is a big part of a relationship BUT, I also believe that men place it waaay too high on their list of priorities. I'm really fighting with the whole sex=love idea that men have.


treated like an object? sex is high on a mans priority because of genetics. find girl, fall in love with girl, dedicate oneself to that girl and only that girl, mate with that girl because she turns you on and you want her, oops...she doesnt want me.....now what?

note: this can work both ways


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> PPS: Also. . .don't take the bribery thing so personal. A lot of married couples do that and it's normal. . .back when things were good with my stb-x, years ago, once in awhile, I would offer to fix the toilet in exchange for sex or something. It was okay. . .it didn't mean my stb-x was a prostitute or I was a John - it was just normal couple play and he's probably trying to just play with you in that way.
> 
> I think you are a bit overworked up.


I'm not saying my way of thinking is correct. I'm here in a therapeutic sense but also to learn some things too, if I can. Men aren't exactly the easiest to figure out either.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

I have been dealing with this as well, but Im the wife who thinks like a guy maried to the man who thinks like a woman. He uses/withholds sex as a means to punish or praise or get what he wants... I just want the freakin sex! 

So, I tried the not expecting sex for a few weeks and all it got me was no sex for a few weeks... he did not change his behaviour and seemed so happy to not be having sex. 

There has to be input/effort from both sides for this to work in the long run, otherwise the already somewhat built up resentment will grow even bigger and the problem will become a rut too big to dig out of.

Approach it like a business meeting of sorts, this is what Im willing to do, can you state what you are willing to do? Then discuss guidelines or boundaries and set your goal into an agreement format... something in the formality makes it feel like something you both have consented to do and will take seriously.

It has to be both sides and there has to be re-negotiation if one or both of you isnt doing your part worked into your agreement... otherwise known as being held accountable for ones own word and actions.

Best of luck!


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

scannerguard, you crack me up!


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

I feel in marriage sex is a perfect barometer for how the relationship is doing. It's one of the most basic aspects of any marriage, and critically important. If there is not sex in a marriage, then you are living with a friend or a roommate. Sex is what differentiates a friendship from a marriage. 

jtk, yall are caught in a nasty tug-of-war that many couples find themselves in. You are right though, without work to meet in the middle from both sides, you will stalemate. Compromise is what is going to win the day here. He may want sex X times a week, and you may want a Casanova/Romeo. He may have to settle for once a week, and you settle for a Don Quixote, etc. 

I think the best thing to do is to start in small steps. You need to tell him the times you want to be held, caressed, etc. You need to tell him at first when you want him to whisper those sweet nothings. As time goes it will begin to become second nature for him. Some men just don't get the whole emotional thing. Remember, we are generally all taught from a young age emotions are for sissy boys (don't cry, etc). It's VERY hard to overcome a lifetime of conditioning. You are going to have to be patient with him and keep reminding him gently (no nagging).

Frankly in this sense, you hold all of the cards and that's why I think in a way you will have to do the work at first. You have final say on sex, and you are feeling neglected. By NO means am I saying this is your fault singularly, etc! But, when it comes to the bedroom, the buck stops with the wife. No, I am not saying just do it and get used to it, etc. But if you want him to be more emotional with you, you will have to help him out. Think of us sometimes as big kids when it comes to emotions. Many of us are very simple, many of us need help to become more emotionally available for our wifes.

I know it sucks ladies, but it is the truth. A guy is generally rarin to go at all times, y'all hold the stopwatch here. Nature can be cruel at times, can't it!? 

One last thing JTK, this will take time, months probably. It's not going to be an overnight solution. It will take focus and work from both of yall to make it work.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

What is the difference in his behavior when he was trying to make you happy versus how he acts now. 

If sex is important to him, why does he not make the effort to do the things that are important to you? 

By the way - I fully understand that you have no interest in a transactional relationship where he just does what you ask so he can get laid. And I don't blame you for that. 

What was he like when you first married? 

As for sex being really important to a man it just is. And a woman who feels loved and well treated is happy to please her man because she loves him. 

Still - a difficult balancing act for the men as being "too nice" kills desire over time. 




jtk said:


> I'm not saying my way of thinking is correct. I'm here in a therapeutic sense but also to learn some things too, if I can. Men aren't exactly the easiest to figure out either.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Men are pretty easy to figure out actually. 

2 comedians touched on this.

Chris Rock said it was 3 things:

They want sex, food, and peace.

"Feed me, f**k me, and shut the f**K up" was the punch line.

There was another comedienne who was actually talking to women about how to please their man (there was a common theme here).

1. Don't talk a lot.
2. Be in a good mood (her punch line: "Surprise! Surprise! Men are people too and don't want to be around a b**ch!!!")
3. Pay attention to his bunnies (she called the pair of them bunnies because she said all the pair of what men have are pretty ugly so she named them something cute)

It was funny because here it was a woman up on stage in a somehwat authorative position giving the women advice in the audience about their men, hitting on such a nerve with them (the good mood nerve), and you could tell they were getting annoyed at her - like a "good mood" is something to be earned vs. freely given.

That is truly the philosophy of a lot of women. . ."Good moods are to be earned and I'll be in a good mood when I get what I want!"

I can't tell you how much a "good mood" is a commodity and you take that off the table. . .well. . .men leave.

I would have stayed in a sexless marriage (probably) but it was my wife's foul mood that ultimately drove me out. Now my poor kids have to live with it.

Actually, I do like to talk. . .but ex-gf really had a motor-mouth. I would just get worn out.

It's not necessarily pretty but that's men.

I hope this helps.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I just wanted to add one more thing on the good mood.

There's an old saying (and I am not accusing the original poster of this). . .

"You have to give the fireplace wood before you can get heat."

It seems a lot of women want men to give them something before they'll give the "good mood" that makes you a pleasure to be around.

Except men and fireplaces don't work that way. 

The nice thing about a "good mood" it doesn't cost anything and doesn't result in pregnancy or any consequences. ALl consequences from a good mood are positive.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

good mood means i might get some, thats why i like a good mood. b****y means it aint even going to happen no matter what i do


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

After reading all this, sounds like men and women are the same. Women need men to fill their emotional needs before they want sex, and men need to have sex before they are willing to fill emotional needs. Chicken or egg? Somebody has to go first. I know with my wife, I always had to do all the work. I always went first, and now I won't. Also, she always hinted or subtley suggested things instead of just saying it. I asked her many times not to, as I usually didn't pick up on it. She has no ability to just sit and tell me what is needed, or what is wrong, or anything else. Guys (at least me) need to be told straight when there is an issue, and deal with it. Not have their partner stuff it down inside and spit it up 5 years later when you can't do anything about it. I guess that is why I am now separated. My mother in law told me she can hear the hurt in my wifes voice (on the phone couple of days ago), but she won't tell here anything or me anything. Wish she could just open up, but she won't. So we go down the path of separation and eventually divorce. Whoopee........


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Hurtin' unit said:


> Also, she always hinted or subtley suggested things instead of just saying it. I asked her many times not to, as I usually didn't pick up on it. She has no ability to just sit and tell me what is needed, or what is wrong, or anything else. Guys (at least me) need to be told straight when there is an issue, and deal with it. Not have their partner stuff it down inside and spit it up 5 years later when you can't do anything about it.


This is something that I've had a big problem with. I always found myself being very upset and saying the words "If you loved me, you'd know". - pertaining to what was wrong, or what he'd done to upset me, or what he DIDN'T do that I felt he should have. But we will sit and watch movies and be a third of the way through them and he will have already figured out who the killer is, what's going to happen, etc. and be right, yet he can't figure ME out? He says I am VERY complex. *sigh*


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hurtin Unit.

I hear ya.

With a lot of women - "Pride goeth before the fall."

Let's face it - when we screw up. . .what are men expected (and I did) to do? We send flowers, we say we are so sorry sweetie, what can I do to make it up to you, how can I change, can I watch the kids and you go out? We cry, we beg. . .and on some level. . .women like the power they hold over us when we are younger men.

And let's face it - when you are a 24 year old hottie, the balance of power is on your side. Your prospects are wide so your husband had better behave. And you become "trained", which is a good thing. Any future woman now gets me as a fully trained, domesticated house male.

I can count the # of times on one hand I got an "I'm sorry" during our whole marriage.

Maybe it's the balance of power shifting as we get older. But I am not blinking. If she's hurt and wants me back - she's got to blink first and say she's sorry for how she treated me and misses me. My prospects as a 41 year old male, although limited because of kids, are much wider than her as a 41 year female with young kids.

The only thing the law orders me to do is pay child support.

I know her though - my wife is just like your wife. She'll keep her pride up and in 5 years she'll say how hurt she was and how much she missed me. . .by then I will have moved on. 

But I am not going to pry it out of her like I used to with the "What's wrongs?"


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

JTK; Maybe you can explain to us guys why it is so hard to just say what you are feeling? I always told my wife what I was feeling, still am doing that. Why can't she just tell me? Is it pride, or fear, or????????? Please help me understand.

Scannerguard; Sounds very familiar. My wife wouldn't even say goodnight or give me a kiss when we went to bed together, I always had to be the one to do that, never mind anything more intimate. I think the last time she actually initiated intimacy was about 2 years ago, and we were away. She was always more intimate if we were away somewhere, which didn't happen alot due to kids and money. I finally got so tired of saying goodnight first that I stopped, and from Dec23 09 to april 14 which was my last night at home, she said it once and didn't bother to kiss me. No anything from Dec23 on, because I wouldn't do it first, or because she just couldn't stand me. Whatever, who can deal with that? So frustrated when I think about it. Time to move on with life, she can try to figure it out because I have tried and tried, and just can't. A little bit bitter here I guess..............


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Hurtin' unit said:


> JTK; Maybe you can explain to us guys why it is so hard to just say what you are feeling? I always told my wife what I was feeling, still am doing that. Why can't she just tell me? Is it pride, or fear, or????????? Please help me understand.


I think there can be a few different reasons why women have a hard time opening up. Pride and fear can play a part. 

If a woman has trust issues, she won't feel comfortable saying what she feeling. She may feel like if she lays her feelings out on the table, that they may be ridiculed or not understood. 

Or if she doesn't feel like her H genuinely cares. In some instances it may be that her true feelings may hurt the other person and she wants to avoid that.

I know there are times when I have trouble opening up to my H because I feel he's listening out of obligation and not genuine concern. Because at those times I see his body language saying 'Here she goes again..'


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Hurtin' unit said:


> Also, she always hinted or subtley suggested things instead of just saying it. I asked her many times not to, as I usually didn't pick up on it. She has no ability to just sit and tell me what is needed, or what is wrong, or anything else. Guys (at least me) need to be told straight when there is an issue, and deal with it. Not have their partner stuff it down inside and spit it up 5 years later when you can't do anything about it.


The hinting and being subtle are about WANTING or H's to take notice that we may be hurting without us having to tell them.

If they pick up on this fact all on their own, then they must be REALLY 'into' us. 

Not saying this is fair, but it is how we think.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

jtk said:


> The hinting and being subtle are about WANTING or H's to take notice that we may be hurting without us having to tell them.
> 
> If they pick up on this fact all on their own, then they must be REALLY 'into' us.
> 
> Not saying this is fair, but it is how we think.


And a man will think "If she's really into me, I won't have to ask/beg for sex". The problem happens when both parties don't fully express their wants/needs/desires. Just because my wife may need to remind me she wants to snuggle does that mean I don't love her? Or if sometimes I have to remind my wife I'd like some sexual attention that she doesn't care? I think in the end if both parties aren't willing to be brutally and totally honest with each other it will always fall back to an impasse.

Nature vs Nurture, Physical vs Mental, etc, etc...


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## Momof3kids (Nov 24, 2009)

jtk said:


> This is something that I've had a big problem with. I always found myself being very upset and saying the words "If you loved me, you'd know". - pertaining to what was wrong, or what he'd done to upset me, or what he DIDN'T do that I felt he should have. But we will sit and watch movies and be a third of the way through them and he will have already figured out who the killer is, what's going to happen, etc. and be right, yet he can't figure ME out? He says I am VERY complex. *sigh*


jtk - Thanks for posting. We're all here to help as we can. 

I'd like to point out a couple of things here. First - your expectations that he will simple "know" what is bothering you is unrealistic. I understand that you want it to be like that, but relationships like that (of ANY variety - friend, sibling, parent, whatever) are very rare things. He can't know exactly what's going on in your head if you do not TELL him. He can figure out who the killer is in the movie because there are clues that he recognizes - he's not recognizing your clues. If a serious issue arose at work (something that upset/impacted you tremendously), would you expect a co-worker to simply "know" that something happened? I understand that the relationship is different, but you wouldn't make anyone else guess, would you? Probably not. You must, must, must tell him exactly what is going on in your head. 



jtk said:


> I think there can be a few different reasons why women have a hard time opening up. Pride and fear can play a part.
> 
> If a woman has trust issues, she won't feel comfortable saying what she feeling. She may feel like if she lays her feelings out on the table, that they may be ridiculed or not understood.
> 
> ...


Second - this to me seems like a self-esteem issue more than anything. Again, remember this is only my two cents, but the reason I say that is you talk about avoidance of hurt, being ridiculed, and rejection by your hubby. You don't really talk about being unwilling to share - just unwilling to deal with the potential reactions. Listening out of obligation is okay. He may need to start that way until he figures out how serious the matter is to you. 



jtk said:


> The hinting and being subtle are about WANTING or H's to take notice that we may be hurting without us having to tell them.
> 
> If they pick up on this fact all on their own, then they must be REALLY 'into' us.
> 
> Not saying this is fair, but it is how we think.


My best advice? STOP being subtle. STOP dropping hints. Open your mouth, tell him what's on your mind and heart. He can't help if he doesn't understand. He won't understand if you don't explain. 

Guys out there - forgive me - but JTK? Think of his mind like a child's. If your child does something that upsets you/could hurt them/etc., you TALK to them about it. You don't just tell "That's wrong" and then walk away. You explain why it's wrong, how it could hurt them, potential outcomes, etc. Sometimes your hubby needs the same simple explanation to grasp the basics before he can move to higher order thinking. 

Finally - take charge of your sex life. You want him to connect to you emotionally? Sex is part of how he does that. I find it a bit ironic that you want him to put his needs on hold but expect him to address yours... Why not address both at the same time? I think it's important for you to try as well as him. You want him to give a little - you'll have to give too.... 

Good luck!! We're all rooting for you!


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Crypsys said:


> And a man will think "If she's really into me, I won't have to ask/beg for sex". The problem happens when both parties don't fully express their wants/needs/desires. Just because my wife may need to remind me she wants to snuggle does that mean I don't love her? Or if sometimes I have to remind my wife I'd like some sexual attention that she doesn't care? I think in the end if both parties aren't willing to be brutally and totally honest with each other it will always fall back to an impasse.
> 
> Nature vs Nurture, Physical vs Mental, etc, etc...


You are exactly right.

What is also important is both being equally committed to fulfilling those needs within each other and continuing to do so.


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## jtk (Apr 24, 2010)

Momof3kids said:


> Second - this to me seems like a self-esteem issue more than anything. Again, remember this is only my two cents, but the reason I say that is you talk about avoidance of hurt, being ridiculed, and rejection by your hubby. You don't really talk about being unwilling to share - just unwilling to deal with the potential reactions. Listening out of obligation is okay. He may need to start that way until he figures out how serious the matter is to you.


The hurt, rejection and ridicule weren't pertaining to me. 
I was answering hurtunit's question about possible reasons why his wife may not be opening up to him.

Trust me, I HAVE opened up to my H. When I say he should 'know' what's bothering me, I am referring to the things he does repeatedly that upset me. I tell him it upsets me, I tell him WHY it upsets me, so therefore he knows. Or he should know.Yet he does the exact same thing again and can't figure out why I'm upset and hurt?

But, I do sometimes feel like he is listening out of obligation

Thanks for your input!


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## Hurtin' unit (Apr 13, 2010)

jtk:

Thanks for the info. In regards to my wife, I have never, ever ridiculed or rejected her. Never. I am sure I have hurt her, I know that some of the things I have not done (more than have done) in regard to my parenting have hurt her. I have tried to be a good Dad, and have probably failed miserably at it. As well, I have always had to be the one to discipline them, as she can't seem to do it, which again makes me a bad Dad. I don't really have a strong connection with my kids, it is most definitely my weakest area. I am working on it, and now that I have them on every second weekend the time will be devoted to them exclusively.

I wish I could go back and do things differently, but I can't. I can only try to learn and do better from here on in. I still stand by the vows I took, but it takes two to make things work. She has alot of anger issues that she needs to work on, forgiving is not in her nature at all unfortunately. I would love the chance to fulfil her needs as much as possible, but I think that ship has sailed.


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## citizen56 (May 11, 2010)

I'd say yes. If she was willing to really work hard on the relationship, making it more positive and loving instead of all her all of the time, I would be willing to put demands for sex aside. It doesn't matter though, because she won't agree to a counselor.


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