# Need serious advice my marriage at risk



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have done lot of reading of this forum recently and really almost don't know where to begin and need some help and need people to talk to about my wife.

My wife and I married 1 year and nine months ago. I am 49 and she is 50. I was married for 22 years (I married young obviously) and we divorced mostly amicably after growing apart over the last 6-7 years of the marriage and I have an adult daughter from that marriage who just graduated grad school and off on her own career. 

I then had a 1 year relationship with a woman who then cheated on me which really was a hard experience to deal with as I got taken for a ride and never saw it coming. About a year after that split and had long moved on. My wife and I got married after 15 months and have been together as I wrote previously one year and nine months. My wife has a 12 and 14 year old daugthers that live with us and I have start bonding with them.

My current wife I think the world of and she is someone I really care about. She does a lot for me and looks after me but there is ONE issue that has been killing me inside. My wife worked previously in IT and has a lot of male friends whom text her to what I think it too much. Also, early on in the marriage she went to lunch with a male ex colleague and I found out after snooping on her phone after my gut felt like too much contact with the ex colleague. She never hid who he was but the lunch thing felt like a betrayal and had created trust issue for me after being cheated on. When I complained to my wife about it back early in the marriage she said I was too insecure and being jealous and nothing to worry about. Then about two months later he messaged her one night asking her to pop around the corner nd come out for a drink and dinner at a local restaurant that's kind of like Applebee's. My wife told me and said she didn't fell like going which did not sit well with me that she would ever considering going. This guy I honestly don't think my wife would fall for but I just don't feel good about it. Who the hell is single and asks another mans wife out ia text like she's got nothing better to do. My wife then said I can't tell her who her friends are and that he was a friend for several years before I came along. I was kinda crushed when she said that as I then felt like the other guy was more important than my feelings.

In my first marriage my ex wife and I never had opposite sex people that would just chat with during the evening. I also have learned to deal with some of the guy friends but my wife has seemed to not always share with me when they text. Now I have become obsessed with checking her phone. Nothing I've found says she's cheating or would cheat but I guess my insecurities are killing me. However it can also be several days in a row they text and it's chit chat that just feels too familiar and should be reserved for me. Things like talking about the girls school work, etc that gets too personal. My wife thinks I'm just crazy jealous so even touching the topic leads to a big fight. My wife is close to her girls so my gut tells me this guy knows that and uses that to keep the chit chat going.

Recently, I saw in the phone her ex husband messages her but sometimes it's the same thing the conversation is about non parental things. I found last week that he made brownies and sent a picture to my wife and asking her what she thought and she replied for 20 or so texts about how to bake etc. I finally could not hold it in any longer and told my wife I'd seen the messages and thought it was unfair to me as a husband to have her chit chat with her ex. I could write about him but he's irrelevant in this as this comes down to how I feel my wife does not respect my feelings. She was single and divorced for 7 years from him before I came along if that matters.

I'm totally lost on if I should feel so angry about her chatting her male friends and her ex husband. I'm really sick to my stomach over this as I feel anxious about a few of these other men as I don't think even though they haven't been flirty the only reason they seem to want to be around would be to hope for their chance and my gut screams at me to have her chop them.

I love my wife dearly and this is killing my marriage as I can't get past it. I will take any advice I can get as I was so mad I was about to tell her I want a divorce. I know I can't control her but should I lay down and ultimatum or am I just wasting my time? I would be devastated if my wife and I split up.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

After being cheated on, it is understandable that you would feel so incredibly uncomfortable with your wife's interactions with other men. Having experienced that OP, it really is in your best interests to openly discuss and agree on boundaries with members of the opposite sex early on. Should you end up with in another relationship in the future, I hope your past and this situation impresses upon you how imperative it is to do so.

I think first you need to accept that your feelings are valid, that healthy relationships have boundaries and that suggesting your spouse is "too insecure and being jealous and nothing to worry about" in response to a spouse expressing discomfort with an opp sex interaction is NOT ok. 

Part of the problem here is that you just "complained" about the issue because deep down you weren't really comfortable discussing the issue or asserting yourself. Even I responded similarly when my partner initially "complained" about something similar, all I heard was 'whiny whiny I don't like it poor me' and my response was 'you can't tell me who to talk to, you're controlling blah blah'. When his tone shifted to "this is not my idea of how a person in a committed relationship acts, I am not willing to put up with it, this is what my expectations are, I will not stay in this relationship under any other circumstances", that was when it really hit me that this person was serious. I was free to feel however I wanted to feel about their requests (like he's controlling etc.) however if I wanted to stay in a relationship with him, I had to stop doing the things he would not accept.

This is how you need to communicate your boundaries OP. You do not negotiate, you do not explain why these are your boundaries, you do not beg and plead. You already know from experience what happens in relationships with poor boundaries, having had that experience your gut is already telling you what could likely happen if your wife continues to dismiss your concerns. You have said you're willing to divorce over this so it is clear that this is something you're not willing to tolerate. So make all of this clear to your wife and allow her to choose whether she wants to be a single woman with weak boundaries or a married woman who respects her husband and his boundaries.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> My wife worked previously in IT and has a lot of male friends whom text her to what I think it too much.
> 
> I love my wife dearly and this is killing my marriage as I can't get past it. I will take any advice I can get as *I was so mad I was about to tell her I want a divorce*. I know I can't control her but *should I lay down and ultimatum* or am I just wasting my time? *I would be devastated if my wife and I split up.*


You have to find an agreement that works for your marriage, both of you included. If you were 21 year olds and she was texting with male friends from her waitress job, then I would be worried. But you're both 50 (ish) and she's texting with professional colleagues? I think you should take it down a notch. Based on my marriage and our professional careers, I would have no issues with my wife meeting up with long-term work friends for dinner, but I am sure she would invite me along to meet them. I can't speak for your marriage, but at your places in life and career you can't expect to be the only man she knows. You _can_ expect to be the only man she loves and is in a relationship with. Has she given _any_ signs of hanky-panky or are you just jealous of the old friendships?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

For me, the one individual that continues to text your W has little respect for you. Suggest you three go to dinner. Let's see how your W reacts. Let see how the old coworker reacts. Become friends with your W friends.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think you are wrong. I also don't think your wife is wrong. I do, however, think that the two of you are _highly_ incompatible in this area. She is obviously comfortable with married people having friends of the opposite sex. You are, equally obviously, not okay with that. This topic should have been figured out when you two were dating and addressed then. The only thing you can really do now is to figure out what your boundaries are, express them to your wife, and enforce them. She is entirely free to continue having her opposite sex friends, but you are also entirely free to react to that in whatever way works best for you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You need to take control of your marriage because otherwise you will keep torturing yourself. Your wife is behaving like a twenty something single woman who is multi dating. You need to make it clear what your expectations from this marriage are and let her know you divorced once and will do it again if necessary. 
If it were me I would have a little chat with the guy that is texting her and ask him wtf is he playing at. 
But that’s me.....


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I am a mess and took today off to think. 

Regarding the old work colleague when I asked why would the guy not invite me she said I'd be bored with their conversation and she thought I'd just be jealous no matter what she does. So she said it was pathetic that I would have to chaperone her with someone so innocent.

I am reading this and almost hate to read as it's kinda what I have been feeling that we will never agree on the topic.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but up until now I was at the point I would bend steel for my wife. Now I resent her being so dismissive of my feelings about her male friends that even a basic boundary discussion creates fights as she throws in my face "I'm not your ex". The problem I am having is this whole male friend and after hours messaging is EXACTLY how my ex gf got started on her affair and my wife is acting like I'm just nut.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Sorry I'm venting here but to be honest I feel like my marriage is done.

Reading online and on this forum I see this topic is everywhere on the internet and from what I read if I tell her I'm not OK with things then she will say I'm controlling and then resent not having contact with those guys. She may even just do it anyways and not tell me. And if I just ignore like no big deal my anger will deepen feeling she's giving her time and attention to other men even if it's not outright cheating.

Right now I feel like just going to the court and filing and saying ok, since your male friends are so important here's your chance, I'm done.

Someone please talk me off the ledge as it's everything I can do not to text her and say great job for blowing up a good thing.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

What happened in your case where you in a same thing messaging other men?



Keke24 said:


> After being cheated on, it is understandable that you would feel so incredibly uncomfortable with your wife's interactions with other men. Having experienced that OP, it really is in your best interests to openly discuss and agree on boundaries with members of the opposite sex early on. Should you end up with in another relationship in the future, I hope your past and this situation impresses upon you how imperative it is to do so.
> 
> I think first you need to accept that your feelings are valid, that healthy relationships have boundaries and that suggesting your spouse is "too insecure and being jealous and nothing to worry about" in response to a spouse expressing discomfort with an opp sex interaction is NOT ok.
> 
> ...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> Sorry I'm venting here but to be honest I feel like my marriage is done.
> 
> Reading online and on this forum I see this topic is everywhere on the internet and from what I read if I tell her I'm not OK with things then she will say I'm controlling and then resent not having contact with those guys. She may even just do it anyways and not tell me. And if I just ignore like no big deal my anger will deepen feeling she's giving her time and attention to other men even if it's not outright cheating.
> 
> ...


I would sit your wife down and ask her does she want to be a fifty year old,twice divorced woman with two teenagers.This is a ridiculous situation that at almost fifty years of age you have to put up with this crap.
If someone who professes to love me tells me I’m jealous I would explain to her that the one person in the world who shouldn’t be making me feel like this is the person who says she loves me.I had this point explained to me on a couple of occasions but it eventually hit home and I’m not married.
Again,I would not accept this behavior and you should make it clear it is a deal breaker.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have tried several times to explain to her why I think the way I do. I cant think of a single female colleague who I would even begin to strike up a chat regarding their kids school or other topic. 

She said "he's never crossed the line even before I met you" but my reply was I felt they are too close. Just a too chatty, etc. She said said I'm over reacting and keeps messaging him.

It's the dismissive part that is REALLY setting off my alarm bells and it's finally hit the point I can't take it and I feel I have to make ultimatum. Yet I read that ultimatums don't work so am I wasting my time...



Andy1001 said:


> I would sit your wife down and ask her does she want to be a fifty year old,twice divorced woman with two teenagers.This is a ridiculous situation that at almost fifty years of age you have to put up with this crap.
> If someone who professes to love me tells me I’m jealous I would explain to her that the one person in the world who shouldn’t be making me feel like this is the person who says she loves me.I had this point explained to me on a couple of occasions but it eventually hit home and I’m not married.
> Again,I would not accept this behavior and you should make it clear it is a deal breaker.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I have tried several times to explain to her why I think the way I do. I cant think of a single female colleague who I would even begin to strike up a chat regarding their kids school or other topic.
> 
> She said "he's never crossed the line even before I met you" but my reply was I felt they are too close. Just a too chatty, etc. She said said I'm over reacting and keeps messaging him.
> 
> It's the dismissive part that is REALLY setting off my alarm bells and it's finally hit the point I can't take it and I feel I have to make ultimatum. Yet I read that ultimatums don't work so am I wasting my time...


As it is she is not taking you seriously,she just wishes you would quit your whining and let her talk to all these guys that have only one thing on their minds.She knows exactly what she is doing and loves the fact that at fifty she can still attract men and it is an added bonus that you are made to feel jealous.She thinks she is in control and that you will back down.
A printout of divorce papers or letting her know you are seeing a lawyer might shake her foundations a little.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

So she hasn't cheated on you, but since you would never talk to a female coworker you are just going to file for divorce? I understand that you have explained your feelings and she didn't respect them, and I have felt that hurt myself in a previous marriage. But throwing in the towel without at least considering counselling seems rash to me.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> As it is she is not taking you seriously,she just wishes you would quit your whining and let her talk to *all these guys that have only one thing on their minds*.She knows exactly what she is doing and *loves the fact* that at fifty she can still attract men and it is an *added bonus* that you are made to feel jealous.She thinks she is in control and that you will back down.
> A printout of divorce papers or letting her know you are seeing a lawyer might shake her foundations a little.


I think you're projecting your own hurts.

She is a professional woman in a male-dominated field (or was). While her boundaries are looser than OP's, perhaps she is just _really into her field._ If she has been at it for 20 or so years, and known OP for 3, you expect a mature, modern, intelligent woman to just flick a switch and be a happy little demure housewife who only speaks to one man? Good luck. Maybe relocate to Stepford.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> So she hasn't cheated on you, but since you would never talk to a female coworker you are just going to file for divorce? I understand that you have explained your feelings and she didn't respect them, and I have felt that hurt myself in a previous marriage. But throwing in the towel without at least considering counselling seems rash to me.


He is only married a year and nine months and allready his wife is treating him like crap while dismissing his concerns and accusing him of jealousy.Better to get out now,no alimony or child support to pay.He will meet someone who deserves him and knows the meaning of boundaries in a marriage and respect for your spouse.
If there is one thing I have learned on tam from some very experienced posters is that behaviorlike this so early in a marriage does not improve it only gets worse.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I guess the answer is, "kinda". She basically told me near verbatim "too bad" that these are friends and she's free to contact anyone she wishes. Not sure how a counselor works with that.

While she may not be physically cheating, I feel it's not right to message other men. Mind you, this is not work at all it's personal messaging including nights and weekends. Maybe I'm tool old fashioned but I think it crosses a line and its both sides initiating the messages.

Counseling, with her, would be a total waste that I am sure. It's impacting my job now as I can't stand to think this marriage to end.

This is the ONLY thing we ever fight about and I do think respect is key if I'm going to live with my wife if messaging other men is more important I feel like she's telling me where I stand. I'm actually stuck on this thought in my head.



Maxwedge 413 said:


> So she hasn't cheated on you, but since you would never talk to a female coworker you are just going to file for divorce? I understand that you have explained your feelings and she didn't respect them, and I have felt that hurt myself in a previous marriage. But throwing in the towel without at least considering counselling seems rash to me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Keke24 said:


> After being cheated on, it is understandable that you would feel so incredibly uncomfortable with your wife's interactions with other men. Having experienced that OP, it really is in your best interests to openly discuss and agree on boundaries with members of the opposite sex early on. Should you end up with in another relationship in the future, I hope your past and this situation impresses upon you how imperative it is to do so.
> 
> I think first you need to accept that your feelings are valid, that healthy relationships have boundaries and that suggesting your spouse is "too insecure and being jealous and nothing to worry about" in response to a spouse expressing discomfort with an opp sex interaction is NOT ok.
> 
> ...


These were my thoughts exactly. He is apparently so dependent on her, so fearful of losing her, that he is going to let her walk all over him. 

OP, I was recently in a relationship where I felt that way. I was fearful of losing her. I thought she was someone that I didn't deserve. I acted weak until I'd get angry and then go overboard. You are going to lose your wife until you man up and tell her how it's going to be. The thing is, you had better get strong enough mentally to straighten this out and MEAN IT. Be strong enough that you do exactly what the quoted person said above: Tell her the boundary and be willing to divorce over it.

Because honestly, if you allow your wife to keep this b.s. up, you're going to be unhappy and grow resentful until things go south and she wants a divorce from YOU. 

What you are asking for is NORMAL. It's not controlling. Your wife shows a "DUCK YOU" attitude that reeks of disrespect.

If you allow your wife to disrespect you, it's only a matter of time until she divorces you. Either fix it, or detach so that you won't hurt so bad when she leaves you.

Sorry. You're bringing this all on yourself.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> What happened in your case where you in a same thing messaging other men?


I was not messaging men at the time, instead I had asked my partner's permission to have my ex stay over in my spare room at a time when I was rooming with a gf. He got really upset, I gave him the crap about him being controlling and that's when he really put his foot down. I acquiesced and told him it was unfair, and fine I won't let him stay over but only because I believed that one shouldn't engage in certain activities if it made the other spouse unhappy. What I didn't tell him was that:

1. I knew he would break up with me if I let my ex stay
2. Having a man be so assertive was a major turn on 
3. Deep down his absolute refusal to entertain the idea made me feel extra special because he was being protective of me
4. His refusal was also indicative that he had a high level of self-respect and was likely not the type to put me on a pedestal. Having just left that ex who was a classic nice guy, doormatish behavior from men was the last thing I wanted

Looking back just the fact that I had the kind of relationship with my ex that allowed him to feel comfortable asking me to stay over, is absurd. We had such poor boundaries when we were together and he was my first really serious relationship so I assumed this was the norm. No way I'll ever go back to that craziness or even considering being in a relationship with someone who doesn't value opp sex boundaries the way I do.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Right now she is a stay at home mom and does not work because of my job relocation. Also, the two guys she's messages all the time she only worked for three years with them and she hasn't worked with them since early 2014. 

I would not have an issue if it was occasional but like I said, one of them seems TOO close and familiar. 

Her ex husband she also let's him text her sometimes youd' think they are still married.

I understand your point but do they need to be chatting every few days? My gut tells me he's just hanging around.

Her other male friend is a guy who she told me had a big crush on her while in high school. After her divorce he happened to find her on facebook and they started going to lunch. Now this was before my time initially. I asked her if his wife is aware of the lunches and she said not sure but he's never done anything flirty. So maybe I'm too insecure but what man is out searching facebook for his old HS classmate when he's married and has kids. Again, could be nothing but my gut says it's damn suspicious to seek her out. He's also one of the guys she messages.



Maxwedge 413 said:


> I think you're projecting your own hurts.
> 
> She is a professional woman in a male-dominated field (or was). While her boundaries are looser than OP's, perhaps she is just _really into her field._ If she has been at it for 20 or so years, and known OP for 3, you expect a mature, modern, intelligent woman to just flick a switch and be a happy little demure housewife who only speaks to one man? Good luck. Maybe relocate to Stepford.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have the same problem where my wifes exH feels too comfortable with things that I feel are not respectful of my relationship with my wife. The conversation they have when messaging steers way beyond coparenting and he doesn't respect boundaries. When I told my wife it was pissing me off she used the whole "whats the problem that's the girls father not like I want him back" bull****.

More I type the more I realize how angry I am.







Keke24 said:


> I was not messaging men at the time, instead I had asked my partner's permission to have my ex stay over in my spare room at a time when I was rooming with a gf. He got really upset, I gave him the crap about him being controlling and that's when he really put his foot down. I acquiesced and told him it was unfair, and fine I won't let him stay over but only because I believed that one shouldn't engage in certain activities if it made the other spouse unhappy. What I didn't tell him was that:
> 
> 1. I knew he would break up with me if I let my ex stay
> 2. Having a man be so assertive was a major turn on
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> I guess the answer is, "kinda". She basically told me near verbatim "too bad" that these are friends and she's free to contact anyone she wishes. Not sure how a counselor works with that.
> That's the attitude she has, you can't have a relationship with her until you see a change
> 
> While she may not be physically cheating, I feel it's not right to message other men. Mind you, this is not work at all it's personal messaging including nights and weekends. Maybe I'm tool old fashioned but I think it crosses a line and its both sides initiating the messages. Texting other men is no big deal on first glance. Sharing personal info and being invited for drinks late at night, knowing she's married---- this is b.s. and it is possible that these guys are doing this because SHE HAS NO BOUNDARIES and THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS BEHAVIOR
> ...


You are foolish for immediately divorcing over this, until you sit your wife down and tell her this: "Late night date requests from other men, and personal friendships with other men that take away from your relationship are not negotiable. You will file for divorce if it continues. If your attitude is that you are free to do as I wish and talk to who I wish with no regard to my feelings, I will choose to divorce you and will serve you papers by the end of the week".

You may lose your wife. That's likely. But you know what, regardless of the "what ifs" you might think about if it ends---- I don't think this woman and you are compatible, and I don't think she's compatible with many men at all with this attitude.
Your WIFE should be worried about your feelings. She shouldn't have to worry constantly about you checking her phone and complaining about other men. You shouldn't have to worry because there SHOULDN'T BE any other men. They're asking her out for drinks at night! You have more than reason to feel disrespected, and her boundaries are TERRIBLE.

Don't fly off the handle and divorce her. But if you have to because she tells you she's free to do whatever she wants---- YEP, you are wise to divorce. The feelings of love aren't balanced in this relationship. Find one where they are balanced.
As you said, YOU wouldn't treat HER like this.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> Right now she is a stay at home mom and does not work because of my job relocation. Also, the two guys she's messages all the time she only worked for three years with them and she hasn't worked with them since early 2014.
> 
> I would not have an issue if it was occasional but like I said, one of them seems TOO close and familiar.
> 
> ...


lots of red flags to be sure. Way too much interaction and attention seeking from the opposite sex. You need to listen to your gut. She needs to get a job, so she doesn't have so much time on her hands.

How's the sex life? My guess is not good. She saves that energy for the OM.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I wont lie I truly love my wife and it's hard to say bad things about her. But I've reached my limit. I'm truly dying inside right now.



Evinrude58 said:


> These were my thoughts exactly. He is apparently so dependent on her, so fearful of losing her, that he is going to let her walk all over him.
> 
> OP, I was recently in a relationship where I felt that way. I was fearful of losing her. I thought she was someone that I didn't deserve. I acted weak until I'd get angry and then go overboard. You are going to lose your wife until you man up and tell her how it's going to be. The thing is, you had better get strong enough mentally to straighten this out and MEAN IT. Be strong enough that you do exactly what the quoted person said above: Tell her the boundary and be willing to divorce over it.
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

It appears no one had any respect for you, the marriage or your wishes concerning constant contact with OM. It is like your W is dating.

I have never seen any married woman go to lunch, text and chat like yours. In fact, I have not seen any married woman go to lunch with any past male coworkers. Just very odd behavior. Most it not all married women I know focus on H, family and career having little time to text, chat and go to lunch with OM. 

This marriage is not going to work IMO.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

No, I truly don't think for a second it's sexual but it's the frequency and personal nature that bothers me. 



naiveonedave said:


> lots of red flags to be sure. Way too much interaction and attention seeking from the opposite sex. You need to listen to your gut. She needs to get a job, so she doesn't have so much time on her hands.
> 
> How's the sex life? My guess is not good. She saves that energy for the OM.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She needs to get a job and stop the attention seeking behavior with other men. Plain and simple.
You're setting her up as a stay at home mom, with THIS kind of behavior? God, this is really problematic and will come back to bite you in the ass HARD.

You're right for considering divorce. Guess what? You CAN FIND ANOTHER WOMAN that doesn't act like this. 

Your wife is pretty sure of herself, and pretty sure you won't do ****. Otherwise she'd straighter her arse up.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> No, I truly don't think for a second it's sexual but it's the frequency and personal nature that bothers me.


It is too familiar and kind of a slap in the face feeling?(for you)

Your W is getting something from this friendship. That something should be coming from you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> No, I truly don't think for a second it's sexual but it's the frequency and personal nature that bothers me.


He's asking how the sex life is with YOU and YOUR WIFE. He thinks it likely sucks because she clearly doesn't respect you. And a woman usually doesn't like a lot of sex with a man she doesn't respect. Just sayin..


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> Right now she is a stay at home mom and does not work because of my job relocation. Also, the two guys she's messages all the time she only worked for three years with them and she hasn't worked with them since early 2014.
> 
> I would not have an issue if it was occasional but like I said, one of them seems TOO close and familiar.
> 
> ...


My friend I mean no disrespect here but you’re wife must have thought she won the lottery when you came into her life.Does she see the letters ATM on your forehead.
She stays at home all day,living off your money and her thanks is to message and meet other guys and dismiss your concerns.Maybe she has her own money,you haven’t said but right now I would be canceling any credit cards being paid from your account,changing the password and making it clear to her that she needs a job,any job.
You may have been the victim of bait and switch here but you seem very emotionally dependent on her and she is walking over you.The reason I am talking such an interest in your thread is because I am in a slightly similar situation,my girlfriend has a son from another relationship and she lives in my house with me and our daughter.She doesn’t work either but she would never try to pull some of the crap your wife is pulling.
I am getting angry on your behalf just reading about this arrogant woman and I really believe if you want to save this marriage your wife needs to understand you are prepared to lose it.Like I said let her know you will be talking to a lawyer but do not discuss the matter further until she is prepared to alleviate your concerns in a practical manner,in other words cut the other men out of her and your lives.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I think you're projecting your own hurts.
> 
> She is a professional woman in a male-dominated field (or was). While her boundaries are looser than OP's, perhaps she is just _really into her field._ If she has been at it for 20 or so years, and known OP for 3, you expect a mature, modern, intelligent woman to just flick a switch and be a happy little demure housewife who only speaks to one man? Good luck. Maybe relocate to Stepford.


When a man and a woman go out to dinner by themselves it’s called a date. No man I have ever known would tolerate that. The difference is that every man I know would have filed as soon as they knew their wife went out on a date with another man. 

Any woman that believe a man wants to take her to dinner and doesn't know he wants more that a pleasant convo is lying to themselves since it wouldn’t occur to anyone else to believe it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Has she done this ever since you started dating? Have you had a good sex life with her and has it changed for better or worse?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> No, I truly don't think for a second it's sexual but it's the frequency and personal nature that bothers me.


what evinrude said - are you going at it or is she rebuffing you?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Any woman that believe a man wants to take her to dinner and doesn't know he wants more that a pleasant convo is lying to themselves since it wouldn’t occur to anyone else to believe it.


Speaks volumes. I believe it to be the truth.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

We have sex about once every week and a half. I'd say 2-4 times a month. Not as much as i'd like but she is not high drive.

I don't think this is sexual for her with the other men. 



Yeswecan said:


> It is too familiar and kind of a slap in the face feeling?(for you)
> 
> Your W is getting something from this friendship. That something should be coming from you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> I don't think this is sexual for her with the other men.


Yes, from what you have posted I would concur. However, your W is getting something from this OM. Emotional, just friendship or simply your W likes to keep up with the industry she no longer is a part of. 

Further, your W should afford you the opportunity to be bored or interested in whatever conversation that is being conducted at lunch. That is yours to determine. Your W should have asked you along these lunches with OM. If it is a girls lunch type deal then you stay home.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

She gets mad and says why don't I trust her if it's a man but don't care if it's a woman.

I was like it's kind of obvious there's a huge difference between messaging and man vs a woman.

Now it's all about she should have freedom to text whoever she wants etc.




Yeswecan said:


> Yes, from what you have posted I would concur. However, your W is getting something from this OM. Emotional, just friendship or simply your W likes to keep up with the industry she no longer is a part of.
> 
> Further, your W should afford you the opportunity to be bored or interested in whatever conversation that is being conducted at lunch. That is yours to determine. Your W should have asked you along these lunches with OM. If it is a girls lunch type deal then you stay home.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

concernedhub said:


> We have sex about once every week and a half. I'd say 2-4 times a month. Not as much as i'd like but she is not high drive.
> 
> I don't think this is sexual for her with the other men.


For many, if not most women, their sexual desire for their partner is directly related to the emotional attachment to them. If their emotional energy is being directed elsewhere, especially toward other men, even if she is not in, nor desires a sexual relationship with these other men, it can tend to drain the sexual desire for her partner.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Unfortunately yes she has and did not realize the extent of it until after we married.




Chaparral said:


> Has she done this ever since you started dating? Have you had a good sex life with her and has it changed for better or worse?


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I don't know what to say, I feel like I'm about to have nervous breakdown about this I have lot on my plate at work.

I don't want a wife who has the need to message personal messages to other men this is recipe for trouble and I don't like it. My wife has dug in and told me too bad and says I can't control her. 

So now I have to figure my next move and I honest have my hands shaking ready to just file for divorce.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

@concernedhub it sounds like you're a bit fearful of your wife and what she might say. So much so that you'd rather just divorce without even trying to have a serious conversation with her about it. Do you have difficulty sticking to your decisions/opinions in conversation with your wife? Do you have a hard time not acquiescing to her wishes?

You really need to get to the point where you are comfortable with your feelings about the issue and your decision. Women respond best to assertive/confident men and your wife sounds like she's used to the exact opposite so she'll call your bluff anytime she gets a chance and **** test the hell out of you. She will smell your fear OP. 

You can put your foot down, she'll agree grudgingly and you can take this opportunity to set a precedent. She'll test you on this boundary and give you other bs, and if you're smart, you will lovingly call her out every single time.

Or you put your foot down, she says screw you and you divorce and save yourself one hell of a trainwreck and a whole lot of self respect.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Her attitude does make me feel like she's not fully invested in the marriage.



samyeagar said:


> For many, if not most women, their sexual desire for their partner is directly related to the emotional attachment to them. If their emotional energy is being directed elsewhere, especially toward other men, even if she is not in, nor desires a sexual relationship with these other men, it can tend to drain the sexual desire for her partner.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> She gets mad and says why don't I trust her if it's a man but don't care if it's a woman.
> 
> I was like it's kind of obvious there's a huge difference between messaging and man vs a woman.
> 
> Now it's all about she should have freedom to text whoever she wants etc.



Yes, messaging a man on a consistent basis is very different than messaging a woman. 

You can not control your W action. However, it does not mean you have to accept these action. Grant her the freedom your W wishes. File and move on.

BTW, your W has been married twice before?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> Her attitude does make me feel like she's not fully invested in the marriage.


Cause she ain't!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> I don't know what to say, I feel like I'm about to have nervous breakdown about this I have lot on my plate at work.
> 
> I don't want a wife who has the need to message personal messages to other men this is recipe for trouble and I don't like it. My wife has dug in and told me too bad and *says I can't control her.
> *
> So now I have to figure my next move and I honest have my hands shaking ready to just file for divorce.


Your W is correct. You can't. However, it does not mean you have to accept what your W is doing.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I'm coming to that point.

But I do love her and I look at her as a life partner so if we divorce I know I'll be crushed. I wish things were more clinical but they aren't. She's a very sweet woman and very feminine. She is good at taking care of the kids but when it comes to me, to be honest, I feel like it's just not totally there and it crushes me inside with this feeling. I am insecure for sure but I think I'm fearful of the reality that she's not as invested as I am. We are able to talk about a lot of things but this topic is destroying us. 

Just can't imagine having woman that I would sit at home and chit chat random stuff with. If I have something to say to a woman outside work topics, it will be my wife as that's how I think it should be.

I spend lot of time with her at night, I go to the gym early morning before work but always home for dinner. I asked her if one of her ex colleagues was nearby and asked her to lunch she said she would go and specifically said "why not". 

What I fear is losing woman I'm in love with. Hate to think one day my current family situation is gone and back to being alone all over messaging other men. Such a waste. I will be devastated for sure if this goes totally south and right now I can't see a solution and really desperate for some advice. 

Truly appreciate this forum right now as it's the only thing stopping me from losing my mind.



Keke24 said:


> @concernedhub it sounds like you're a bit fearful of your wife and what she might say. So much so that you'd rather just divorce without even trying to have a serious conversation with her about it. Do you have difficulty sticking to your decisions/opinions in conversation with your wife? Do you have a hard time not acquiescing to her wishes?
> 
> You really need to get to the point where you are comfortable with your feelings about the issue and your decision. Women respond best to assertive/confident men and your wife sounds like she's used to the exact opposite so she'll call your bluff anytime she gets a chance and **** test the hell out of you. She will smell your fear OP.
> 
> ...


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

She was married once before, for 6 years then been divorced just about 7 years before meeting me.

This is both our second marriages. I never saw this coming and it's really got me depressed I can't stop thinking about it and I need some help. I'll never marry again if I can't make this work. I don't want to divorce her but I feel like this is just a bridge too far.





Yeswecan said:


> Yes, messaging a man on a consistent basis is very different than messaging a woman.
> 
> You can not control your W action. However, it does not mean you have to accept these action. Grant her the freedom your W wishes. File and move on.
> 
> BTW, your W has been married twice before?


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Really thinking about what you wrote and I guess I'm afraid of what she'll say and that who knows she'd walk out.



Keke24 said:


> @concernedhub it sounds like you're a bit fearful of your wife and what she might say. So much so that you'd rather just divorce without even trying to have a serious conversation with her about it. Do you have difficulty sticking to your decisions/opinions in conversation with your wife? Do you have a hard time not acquiescing to her wishes?
> 
> You really need to get to the point where you are comfortable with your feelings about the issue and your decision. Women respond best to assertive/confident men and your wife sounds like she's used to the exact opposite so she'll call your bluff anytime she gets a chance and **** test the hell out of you. She will smell your fear OP.
> 
> ...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Concernedhub said: "What I fear is losing woman I'm in love with".

You are in a conundrum "dammed if I do, dammed if I don't" but the most likely outcome will be that you'll lose her anyway; whether she gets tired of your nagging and insecurities, or you reach your point of no return and divorce anyway. 

You're not wrong, she's not wrong, but if you two do not get to reach an agreement and an impasse ensues, you'll lose her anyway. Sorry, but this is starting to look like the most plausible outcome. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck!!


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I know and it's very painful right now. I don't want lose her but I feel like this is not ever going to end and I'll have a wife who messages other men for rest of eternity. And what stings is I don't think she's invested in this marriage like I am. Having to sort through emotions that are all over the place and I'm struggling as don't have lot of close friends to help.




Rob_1 said:


> Concernedhub said: "What I fear is losing woman I'm in love with".
> 
> You are in a conundrum "dammed if I do, dammed if I don't" but the most likely outcome will be that you'll lose her anyway; whether she gets tired of your nagging and insecurities, or you reach your point of no return and divorce anyway.
> 
> You're not wrong, she's not wrong, but if you two do not get to reach an agreement and an impasse ensues, you'll lose her anyway. Sorry, but this is starting to look like the most plausible outcome. Hope I'm wrong. Good luck!!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> I don't know what to say, I feel like I'm about to have nervous breakdown about this I have lot on my plate at work.
> 
> I don't want a wife who has the need to message personal messages to other men this is recipe for trouble and I don't like it. My wife has dug in and told me too bad and says I can't control her.
> 
> So now I have to figure my next move and I honest have my hands shaking ready to just file for divorce.


NEVER, EVER make a huge, life altering decision in a highly emotional state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't even talk to her until I'd calmed down, had complete control, and had thought long and hard about what I wanted to say. Please think about this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> She was married once before, for 6 years then been divorced just about 7 years before meeting me.
> 
> This is both our second marriages. I never saw this coming and it's really got me depressed I can't stop thinking about it and I need some help. *I'll never marry again if I can't make this work*. I don't want to divorce her but I feel like this is just a bridge too far.


LOL, why would you say that? You think just because THIS woman is like this, and this one has hurt you, that they ALL will?
Dude, they only hurt you if you LET them. I learned this the hard way. Knucklebusting learning, LOL. 
You have got to change the way you interact with women (I have too) if you're going to have a successful relationship. You have got to get to the point that you can divorce her, and not be to the point of never ever wanting to marry again. You've got to be able to say NO to your lady. You've got to be able to say no and stick to it. She'll know when you mean it.

If all this talking it up with other men on the phone is more important to her than her marriage to you, then my gosh, get rid of her! Honestly, if all I was getting was sex a few times a year (you're in a sexless marriage, basically), I would NOT bat an eye at sending her down the road.

One last thing: For you to think "it's not sexual" just because she doesn't want sex with YOU but a handful of times a year----- that is NOT smart thinking. That is hopeful, naive thinking. How many times a week were you having sex with her BEFORE you married? If it was this little before, and you are high drive or much higher than her, why in heaven would you marry her?


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> I am a mess and took today off to think.
> 
> Regarding the old work colleague when I asked why would the guy not invite me she said I'd be bored with their conversation and she thought I'd just be jealous no matter what she does. So she said it was pathetic that I would have to chaperone her with someone so innocent.


My wife would never do that do me. She knows how I feel about it and she really doens't have any guy friends anyway. My Ex cheated on me, so I'm a bit edgy about things like that myself. I sympathize with your position. I don't think I'd stand for it myself but I know there are relationships where opposite sex friends are acceptable. It just doesn't work for me. I think you are either going to have to learn to live with it, convince your wife she needs to stop (which may cause a lot of resentment even if you do) or move on.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> NEVER, EVER make a huge, life altering decision in a highly emotional state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I wouldn't even talk to her until I'd calmed down, had complete control, and had thought long and hard about what I wanted to say. Please think about this.


Concur. Collect yourself. Formulate what you want to say and convey it in a calm controlled manner.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I'm coming to that point.
> 
> But I do love her and I look at her as a life partner so if we divorce I know I'll be crushed. I wish things were more clinical but they aren't. She's a very sweet woman and very feminine. She is good at taking care of the kids but when it comes to me, to be honest, I feel like it's just not totally there and it crushes me inside with this feeling. I am insecure for sure but I think I'm fearful of the reality that she's not as invested as I am. We are able to talk about a lot of things but this topic is destroying us.
> 
> ...


From what you've shared, it would seem that what you're actually afraid of is having to accept what you already know, that she's not really in love with you. Not the way you truly love her at least.

I really sympathize with you OP because it seems like you've been burying your head in the sand for quite some time and this issue has turned into the wave that's washed all the sand away. Scary stuff when you're used to having a place to hide.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

And this really hurts. I would do anything for her and feel true love towards her. I really like her being in my life and knowing you love someone that is not as invested in a marriage as you are is crushing my soul.

In many ways things are good between us, but this topic of male friends and messaging them has ruined it all.



Keke24 said:


> From what you've shared, it would seem that what you're actually afraid of is having to accept what you already know, that she's not really in love with you. Not the way you truly love her at least.
> 
> I really sympathize with you OP because it seems like you've been burying your head in the sand for quite some time and this issue has turned into the wave that's washed all the sand away. Scary stuff when you're used to having a place to hide.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I know and it's very painful right now. I don't want lose her but I feel like this is not ever going to end and I'll have a wife who messages other men for rest of eternity. And what stings is I don't think she's invested in this marriage like I am. Having to sort through emotions that are all over the place and I'm struggling as don't have lot of close friends to help.


It seems you got married too quickly and unfortunately your picker wasn’t working fully.Could you move out for a few days,maybe stay with friends or in a hotel.Who owns the house,is it yours or joint ownership.Has your wife any way of supporting herself if you leave.
She needs a short sharp shock to bring her to her senses and you need to grow a backbone strong enough to do it.
For today anyway, don’t do anything,you are not in the right mindset at the moment and may do more damage than good.
Tomorrow you need to start letting your wife know that there are going to be changes in your relationship and she either works with you or you will go it alone.
But you have to mean it!


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I think I'm just not ready to let things go with her even though I'm thinking that's what's going to happen.

We've fought about this 3-4 times already and it's not getting anywhere. 

I really need some help. Very heart sick I have to drive right by where we got married and it just brings back a very happy memory. I know I'm being pathetic but I don't have family and I'm feeling like world crashing down around me.




Andy1001 said:


> It seems you got married too quickly and unfortunately your picker wasn’t working fully.Could you move out for a few days,maybe stay with friends or in a hotel.Who owns the house,is it yours or joint ownership.Has your wife any way of supporting herself if you leave.
> She needs a short sharp shock to bring her to her senses and you need to grow a backbone strong enough to do it.
> For today anyway, don’t do anything,you are not in the right mindset at the moment and may do more damage than good.
> Tomorrow you need to start letting your wife know that there are going to be changes in your relationship and she either works with you or you will go it alone.
> But you have to mean it!


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

OP

the problem here is this just wreaks of disrespect for you.

the word is "dont knee jerk and file for divorce" but the reality is you HAVE sat down with her and discussed your outlook on this subject with her and she completely dismissed your feelings.

I dont see any other way around it. you MUST....IMO file and show her you are serious and this behavior won't be tolerated. end.of.story. 

Her actions will tell you at that point what she cares more about...these male "friends" who are there for nothing more than to stoke her ego...or your marriage and you.

my belief is that these types of relationships are inappropriate in that they build resentment between spouses and erode the fundamentals of your marriage. I dont care what people say....look how many posts here where people started out as :friends" and see where it went.

your wife see's you as weak and spineless, and your words here have other posters agreeing that is the case.

better to cut this off NOW...then let it drag on because you arent getting any younger and better to say i made the wrong choice and got out early then spend how many years while this progresses and gets worse. I dare you to find one post where somebody had this issue and came out happy in the end.

my advice would be to file, have her served, and simply tell her you have made the decision and that's that.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> I think you're projecting your own hurts.
> 
> She is a professional woman in a male-dominated field (or was). While her boundaries are looser than OP's, perhaps she is just _really into her field._ If she has been at it for 20 or so years, and known OP for 3, you expect a mature, modern, intelligent woman to just flick a switch and be a happy little demure housewife who only speaks to one man? Good luck. Maybe relocate to Stepford.


I’m not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse,naive,or just playing devils advocate.
Let me tell you something about me.I have dated hundreds of women,you can call me a liar if you want but it’s true.I have never invited a woman to a restaurant or bar one on one without the intention of having sex with her.And any woman who would meet a man other than her husband,at night in a bar is looking for more than a chat about apples latest update for the iPhone.
I think it’s not me that’s projecting here,maybe the problem lies closer to home.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have moments my seething anger has me ready to drive over and file. I have other moments I'm in near tears thinking my I'd lose my wife and step kids who I am attached too.

I drove by the hotel earlier today where we got married and really felt the emotions. I would love to find a way to make this work with her. 

But I also heed your words as I don't know many men hanging around a women that they don't have plans for and my wife says I'm a chauvinist and not all men think like me, etc. I just had a 15 minute talk with her and she told me she's sick of this topic.

So you are right, I'm starting to resent her, and she's starting to push away. Total stalemate. 




x598 said:


> OP
> 
> the problem here is this just wreaks of disrespect for you.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Concerned,
By FAR the worst possible thing you could do right now - would be to speak with her about this. And the reason is that - you are going to come across In a very undesirable manner. And the reason for that is you are having what seems like a genuine panic attack. 

But it’s a two layered panic attack:
1. That she doesn’t really respect you, and therefore clearly doesn’t love you like a woman is supposed to love her husband
2. That you are going to lose her - and this fear is so enormous because you somehow don’t believe in yourself enough to be confident you will meet someone else

If you talk to her, you will be projecting fear. It will continue to erode her respect for you. 

She would actually respect you IF you were calm and firm. But the way you are coming across on this thread is anything but firm. Every other post is a contradiction of the one before. 

That said, I’m not convinced you have a solid case here. You haven’t provided anything specific in terms of her texting content. 
- Without knowing the actual content of what she is saying/receiving it is difficult to have a viewpoint. 
- Without understanding how she treats you in the day to day it is hard to gauge whether she sees you as her soul mate or a voice activated ATM/Cashpoint. 





concernedhub said:


> I think I'm just not ready to let things go with her even though I'm thinking that's what's going to happen.
> 
> We've fought about this 3-4 times already and it's not getting anywhere.
> 
> I really need some help. Very heart sick I have to drive right by where we got married and it just brings back a very happy memory. I know I'm being pathetic but I don't have family and I'm feeling like world crashing down around me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Concernedhub it would be better to amicably end this marriage and move on after 15 months than fifteen years from now. You are perfectly right to feel slighted, insulted and disrespected by the way your wife is behaving. She has low boundaries, little respect for you and seems entitled. 

There is absolutely no reason for a married woman to go to dinner alone with a man not her husband. That is a bunch of bullsh*t.


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## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

OP, I also work in the IT and am surrounded by male coworkers. I don’t know if there is cultural differences, but here it’s not a big deal for coworkers to hang out to a coffee break or lunch together. There are times when I do so with a male coworker and we chat about personal stuffs even thought it doesn’t mean we are close. It’s just casual talks and having a good time.
I also have a few male friends for years and while we don’t chat too often, we can talk about more personal stuffs. We don’t flirt or anything thought.

I do chat with past coworkers sometimes, but nothing much. But there are limits of course, I don’t meet them alone and dinner seems very out of place.

The problem in your case seems that in some occasions your wife doesn’t have limits and then she belittles your feelings. Too much jealousy is of course not healthy, and it does seem there is a bit too much, perhaps because of your past experience. But she is not caring for how you feel and that is not good.

Your wife doesn’t have to stop talking to other guys, but there should be some limits and then she should be more understanding and considerate of your feelings. IMO it seems workable and while you can work on your insecurities, she can work on being more considerate of your feelings. It’s not good when any side simply disregards the other and assume they can do anything.

I would say that marriage counseling can help.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I have moments my seething anger has me ready to drive over and file. I have other moments I'm in near tears thinking my I'd lose my wife and step kids who I am attached too.
> 
> I drove by the hotel earlier today where we got married and really felt the emotions. I would love to find a way to make this work with her.
> 
> ...


OP, from where I'm sitting your feelings toward your wife are sounding more and more like insecurity, fear and codependency than love. It certainly doesn't sound healthy OP, and I think you know this. You really should do a little research on codependency.

What was your childhood like?


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

They talk about everything. Kids, job, house, the only thing not discussed is its not flirting or sexual. And, it's very rare if ever that I'm even mentioned on the texts. 

The most I did see what one of the guys called her dear.

I mentioned about how her ex colleauges will ask her to lunch or dinner and I'm never invited. She's only gone twice but only because she knows I don't like it or she would have gone many more times.

Ive read a lot on this topic and having been cheated on I'm pretty sensitive too it. My wife says I'm just jealous which just feeds the problem as if she eve had a complaint like this I would not be throwing it back in her face so this has become a constant touch point for me with how she handles it and becomes dismissive.



MEM2020 said:


> Concerned,
> By FAR the worst possible thing you could do right now - would be to speak with her about this. And the reason is that - you are going to come across In a very undesirable manner. And the reason for that is you are having what seems like a genuine panic attack.
> 
> But it’s a two layered panic attack:
> ...


----------



## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

I would like to add, sometimes a partner might not understand your perspective and therefore not understand why something is a big deal for you. Doesn’t mean they don’t love you, but can mean they have poor empathetic skills.

If that’s the case your wife needs to learn how to walk in your shoes and be willing to meet your needs. Some partners are better at this, some might need extra effort before they can develop such skills.

In any ways don’t make decisions with all the emotions running wild. Chances are they can cloud you and make it harder to see thing clearer.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

msrv23 said:


> OP, I also work in the IT and am surrounded by male coworkers. I don’t know if there is cultural differences, but here it’s not a big deal for coworkers to hang out to a coffee break or lunch together. *There are times when I do so with a male coworker and we chat about personal stuffs even thought it doesn’t mean we are close*. It’s just casual talks and having a good time.
> 
> *I also have a few male friends for years and while we don’t chat too often, we can talk about more personal stuffs. We don’t flirt or anything thought.
> 
> *I do chat with past coworkers sometimes, but nothing much. But there are limits of course, I don’t meet them alone and dinner seems very out of place.


Still doesn't make what you are doing safe or right. It is these innocent meetings...a quick lunch here, coffee there...that lead to many, many office-place affairs. I can pet an alligator on the nose, and the first ten times he might not bite me, but that eleventh time I might pull back a stump. 

You seem to have good boundaries, so I guess as long as you are up front about these luncheons with your SO then no harm no foul. 

OP's wife met another man, for dinner, and kept it a secret. She engages in secret texting with her exH. OP has every right in the world to call her on the carpet on that. She has done everything she can to prove she is an unsafe partner.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

concernedhub said:


> Ive read a lot on this topic and having been cheated on I'm pretty sensitive too it. My wife says I'm just jealous which just feeds the problem as if she eve had a complaint like this I would not be throwing it back in her face so this has become a constant touch point for me with how she handles it and becomes dismissive.


Why did her first husband divorce her? Have you ever called him up and asked him?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to quickly download the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. The two of you need the books LOVE BUSTERS and HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS.

Some experts say sex less than three times a month is a sexless marriage. If it’s not sexless it’s damn close.

The spouse that cares the least controls the marriage.

Google women with male orbiters.

QUIT DISCUSSING THIS WITHOUT A PLAN OF ACTION. You are no where near ready. Do some reading. Calm down and chill. This isn’t going to be solved over night.

GET THE MMSLP book before you crash.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You sound calmer, which is good. 

Do you understand that you absolutely can NOT talk to her about this unless you REALLY are willing to divorce?

Because you clearly haven’t reached that point yet. And unless you really are willing to divorce, truly at peace with it, talking to her about this is hugely destructive. 




concernedhub said:


> They talk about everything. Kids, job, house, the only thing not discussed is its not flirting or sexual. And, it's very rare if ever that I'm even mentioned on the texts.
> 
> The most I did see what one of the guys called her dear.
> 
> ...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Agree. 

Her Ex husband is potentially a very valuable source of info. They are clearly amicable, so he has no reason to lie.





bandit.45 said:


> Why did her first husband divorce her? Have you ever called him up and asked him?


----------



## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Still doesn't make what you are doing safe or right. It is these innocent meetings...a quick lunch here, coffee there...that lead to many, many office-place affairs. I can pet an alligator on the nose, and the first ten times he might not bite me, but that eleventh time I might pull back a stump.
> 
> You seem to have good boundaries, so I guess as long as you are up front about these luncheons with your SO then no harm no foul.
> 
> OP's wife met another man, for dinner, and kept it a secret. She engages in secret texting with her exH. OP has every right in the world to call her on the carpet on that. She has done everything she can to prove she is an unsafe partner.


That is unsafe if tou marry an alligator.  Well for a cheater any small innocent act can trigger office affair. If a lunch or coffee break can trigger it then I’d really question the morality of the people involved.

My husband can trust me and I can trust him. What we have is not easily replaceable. We built memories and a life together. We’ve been through a lot together. Our marriage has issues but this is not an issue.
Besides, if someone intends to cheat then they’d find a ways anyways. How can we supervise and control the other 24/7?

There are a few guys that are attractive sometimes but just because they are attractive and we can have a nice chat doesn’t mean I want them as my partner nor replace my husband with them.
Even so I do avoid anything that can be misleading, like hanging out outside work alone.
My husband is special and irreplaceable to me, and I also value my own moral conduct. I know that he also loves me dearly and is a honorable man.

If OP’s wife is really doing such things then of course OP must be assertive about it.


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

The insecurity and fear is true. I don't think it's codependency other than the dread of ending a relationship I really thought would work out.

She has a lot of the qualities I was looking for but obviously nobody is perfect. I did have one friend that asked "what happens if you just ignore it" rather than destroy the relationship. I just cant do that as I feel like my wife is not respecting the marriage. I was married for over 20 years in first marriage and only now do I see how damaging smart phones can be to a relationship. They are literally killing mine.


My childhood was not great and was in foster care for few years and ended up adopted by my aunt and uncle.



Keke24 said:


> OP, from where I'm sitting your feelings toward your wife are sounding more and more like insecurity, fear and codependency than love. It certainly doesn't sound healthy OP, and I think you know this. You really should do a little research on codependency.
> 
> What was your childhood like?


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

They were married 6 years and change. She filed because he travelled a lot for work and she was left to handle the house on her own missing kids birthdays and was stingy on spending etc. That version comes mostly from her but over the years from my observation and listening to the kids over the last few years is probably mostly true.

That I know of she has a no history of cheating. She did share with me during her marriage she talked to some guy about problems in her marriage and when she told her ex about it he had a blow up with her. Other than that no red flags I can truly look back on and say I was heading for issues.

Even though my previous gf cheated, we did have discussion about boundaries and having chit chats with others was something we agreed would not be ok. So at least the rules of the road were clear in my previous relationships.




bandit.45 said:


> Why did her first husband divorce her? Have you ever called him up and asked him?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you keep dragging her into your panic attacks this problem will solve itself because she will divorce you. 

If I had to guess - the core issue here is she just isn’t that into you. That’s partly reflected in your sex life, and possibly a side effect of your style of interaction with her. Likely too nice, too serious and too anxious. 

And part of that is your baseline anxiety level is very high. 





concernedhub said:


> The insecurity and fear is true. I don't think it's codependency other than the dread of ending a relationship I really thought would work out.
> 
> She has a lot of the qualities I was looking for but obviously nobody is perfect. I did have one friend that asked "what happens if you just ignore it" rather than destroy the relationship. I just cant do that as I feel like my wife is not respecting the marriage. I was married for over 20 years in first marriage and only now do I see how damaging smart phones can be to a relationship. They are literally killing mine.
> 
> ...


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I'm not really calm to be honest. Divorce, kids involved, etc and knowing the pain that could be coming is not fun to think about.

I truly don't want divorce but I also know my limits and a wife who chit chats with other men not something I think I can ever be happy with.



MEM2020 said:


> You sound calmer, which is good.
> 
> Do you understand that you absolutely can NOT talk to her about this unless you REALLY are willing to divorce?
> 
> Because you clearly haven’t reached that point yet. And unless you really are willing to divorce, truly at peace with it, talking to her about this is hugely destructive.


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

That's what I feel. If she was truly invested then these other guys would have gone away and not feel like she's keeping them around and throwing them in my face.

Hard to not feel anxious when your whole world crashing down. We just bought house together and all the logistics involved if we can't make it work will be daunting both emotionally and financially.




MEM2020 said:


> If you keep dragging her into your panic attacks this problem will solve itself because she will divorce you.
> 
> If I had to guess - the core issue here is she just isn’t that into you. That’s partly reflected in your sex life, and possibly a side effect of your style of interaction with her. Likely too nice, too serious and too anxious.
> 
> And part of that is your baseline anxiety level is very high.


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I think we may be done. I sat her down and told her this has caused me to be concerned and that I don't like how she texts other men and that I find it violates the marriage.

She said I'm too much and that she's tired of this topic. I told her this is destroying the marriage and making me consider divorce. She said if I feel that way nothing she can do. That was enough for me to say Catherine, I had enough of your nonsense. I am filing tomorrow.

She went into the room crying with the two girls and wont answer the door. 

I guess I have to face the facts she is just not truly in love with me. I'm truly crushed/


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

concernedhub said:


> I think we may be done. I sat her down and told her this has caused me to be concerned and that I don't like how she texts other men and that I find it violates the marriage.
> 
> She said I'm too much and that she's tired of this topic. I told her this is destroying the marriage and making me consider divorce. She said if I feel that way nothing she can do. That was enough for me to say Catherine, I had enough of your nonsense. I am filing tomorrow.
> 
> ...


well since you have laid down the gauntlet......you MUST follow through.....otherwise you have just shown her all she has to door is tear up and run to her room to cry and pout......and she then get what she wants.

i mean isnt that what she has been doing with these "talks" about the other men? she just tells you to stuff it and you swallow it.....up till now anyway.

you have to be willing to end and/or destabilize a relationship to have any chance to save it.


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

She is definitely not begging or seem worried about losing me,

She went to the store and when she came back we talked again. She said its obvious you aren't happy so I wont force you to stay. So her attitude is just more reflection of how 

I am not one to just grab a partner and start a relationship. I love my wife pretty deeply so her just letting things go without a concern just stings that much harder. She just said she was a fool to have a jealous husband and I told her I'm solving that problem and it silenced her.

I'm truly done with her.





x598 said:


> well since you have laid down the gauntlet......you MUST follow through.....otherwise you have just shown her all she has to door is tear up and run to her room to cry and pout......and she then get what she wants.
> 
> i mean isnt that what she has been doing with these "talks" about the other men? she just tells you to stuff it and you swallow it.....up till now anyway.
> 
> you have to be willing to end and/or destabilize a relationship to have any chance to save it.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> She is definitely not begging or seem worried about losing me,
> 
> She went to the store and when she came back we talked again. She said its obvious you aren't happy so I wont force you to stay. So her attitude is just more reflection of how
> 
> ...


Today it's texting tomorrow it will be worse.

Last ditch effort get her the book "not just friends".


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP: you MUST file now and tell her you did. If you don't, then shame on you because any little chance of making her reconsider will be lost. If that doesn't do it, then you finally got your answer: she wasn't that much into you, and carry on with the divorce. There's always a "next one".


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I already printed out the form as filing is easy in my State and there's no kids,

The only thing is the house which is huge issue and the joint bank accounts.

I cant possibly convey how crappy I feel inside right now. 



Rob_1 said:


> OP: you MUST file now and tell her you did. If you don't, then shame on you because any little chance of making her reconsider will be lost. If that doesn't do it, then you finally got your answer: she wasn't that much into you, and carry on with the divorce. There's always a "next one".


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## jlcrome (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm bout your age been there done that marriage divorce relationships you name it. Two things stand out you have "anger" issues plus "snooping". Even you may not have controlling problems etc..women see this as crossing boundries. My advice just chill enjoy life let people be!! Give her all the freedom she wants without any repercussion. 
Now if you want your marriage to end make ultimatums, snoop on her phone, be angry, tell her who she can be friends with, who she can text.
Just an opinion


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You didn't listen. You went and talked to her without calming down. You aren't in control of your emotions.

That being said, you really might as well throw in the towel if she's that easily letting her marriage to you go. You had legitimate complaints.

File the divorce papers and split.

Yes you can find another woman who has more reasonable boundaries. But if you let your emotions rule your life, yourgoing to screw every relationship you have up.

You should have waited until you weren't angry or fearful. If you don't file now--- you might as well give it up. You can always stop the process. However, if she doesn't do some apologizing, I'd follow through. Shesshowing you you're not important. Don't let that go unpunished. File.
She made zero effort to allay your fears. Remember thaT.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> She is definitely not begging or seem worried about losing me,
> 
> She went to the store and when she came back we talked again. She said its obvious you aren't happy so I wont force you to stay. So her attitude is just more reflection of how
> 
> ...


You are expecting her to beg you not to file? She possibly still thinks you won't. 

At this point you have to follow through 100%. Either she realizes you are not just bluffing and changes her tune, or she doesn't care and you finalize. 

Win-win for you.

You brought up your concerns too many times already, she knows you're not ok with it. Now show her.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I don’t know of a husband that would be ok with their wife going on dates with other men. 

Know it hurts but it’s the right thing to do. It’s not being jealous like she is claiming.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

This is why I finally made a stand. I didn't marry my wife so she can then share our life with her mail friends. It makes me feel like shes not respectful of the marriage.

I am sleeping alone shes sleeping with the girls. I never yelled at all but my internal feelings I can't stay like this. At some point my view has to matter and so far she completely ignores my concerns.

In no way do I want this divorce but I see no other way, I cant be happy with her texting other men.




Evinrude58 said:


> You didn't listen. You went and talked to her without calming down. You aren't in control of your emotions.
> 
> That being said, you really might as well throw in the towel if she's that easily letting her marriage to you go. You had legitimate complaints.
> 
> ...


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have read a lot on the web and seems there are two camps on this topic and there are obviously those who, like you, would say let it go and ignore it. Of course I'm angry my wife chit chats with other men in a way I don't like.

And the snooping sucks I wish I didn't feel the need to do it to be honest. At the end of the day I don't feel I can trust my wife at this point to respect my feelings so I made my view know with clarity.

Make no mistake my wife is and has been treated as a priority in my life but I don't feel she does the same. I've actually shed tears tonight out of pure frustration. I know what love is and what it's not and I don't feel like she cherishes me in the least. I don't know what else I can do or say at this point.

I don't have any family to reach out too and my closest friend lives overseas so I'm desperate for someone to reach out too and thank god I found this forum. I am truly lost right now. I just started my new job so its not easy trying to hide my internal issues and put on a poker face. 

To some on here while it makes sense to do this or that, its really hard when you have emotions and feelings flowing. I look at my wife in precious way and love seeing her smile and now we are about to end things and seems so stupid and needless.

Sorry for the rant but I struggling to hold things together right now.



jlcrome said:


> I'm bout your age been there done that marriage divorce relationships you name it. Two things stand out you have "anger" issues plus "snooping". Even you may not have controlling problems etc..women see this as crossing boundries. My advice just chill enjoy life let people be!! Give her all the freedom she wants without any repercussion.
> Now if you want your marriage to end make ultimatums, snoop on her phone, be angry, tell her who she can be friends with, who she can text.
> Just an opinion


----------



## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

OP I might not fully know all the details of your marriage so I might be wrong here. But it seems like you guys are making decisions hot headed.

You guys talked about this for many times. But have you tried different ways to do so? Maybe your communication skills need to get better, or something else. How much have you learned and read to improve? Have you considered MC where they can help both sides improve and reach understanding?

If you just talked about things the same way over and over again then it would not solve anything.


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

msrv23 said:


> OP I might not fully know all the details of your marriage so I might be wrong here. But it seems like you guys are making decisions hot headed.
> 
> You guys talked about this for many times. But have you tried different ways to do so? Maybe your communication skills need to get better, or something else. How much have you learned and read to improve? Have you considered MC where they can help both sides improve and reach understanding?
> 
> If you just talked about things the same way over and over again then it would not solve anything.


The problem with MC is she doesn't think there is anything wrong with what she's doing, or worse, knows it's wrong but does it anyway and doesn't care what her husband thinks. 

We don't know the exact wording of the discussions, and he may have come across as weak, needy etc. so his latest action of filing should speak the loudest and clearest.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I’ve tried every angle I can think of. I wish had found this site sooner.this is why I’m asking for advice as I’m confused and can’t believe it’s happening. 

I will ask her to try counselling but not sure it will help.

She told me she can’t be with a man who is insecure and does not trust her.

So that feeling in my gut that she would just throw me away for the freedom to message other men is just hard to reverse.

I was actually very calm when I talked to her. I’m dying inside but holding it in and it’s killing me.


I can’t even eat right now and when I do I get diarrhea as my stomach is in knots.



msrv23 said:


> OP I might not fully know all the details of your marriage so I might be wrong here. But it seems like you guys are making decisions hot headed.
> 
> You guys talked about this for many times. But have you tried different ways to do so? Maybe your communication skills need to get better, or something else. How much have you learned and read to improve? Have you considered MC where they can help both sides improve and reach understanding?
> 
> If you just talked about things the same way over and over again then it would not solve anything.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you look up male orbiters? Sounds like she is addicted to the attention of inferior males she would not think of being with........until she does.

Does she have more male friends than girl friends?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> I have read a lot on the web and seems there are two camps on this topic and there are obviously those who, like you, would say let it go and ignore it. Of course I'm angry my wife chit chats with other men in a way I don't like.
> 
> And the snooping sucks I wish I didn't feel the need to do it to be honest. At the end of the day I don't feel I can trust my wife at this point to respect my feelings so I made my view know with clarity.
> 
> ...


You are in a vulnerable state right now. Take it out on a gym. Get it all out away from her so you are strong, calm, and composed around her. Let your boss know that you are going through things, since you are new they may think you are always like this.

And don't talk to her about this again. Be pleasant and cordial. Once she sees you are totally serious it will, as stated before, resolve things one way or another. Not filing at this point would be the worst thing for you.

And make yourself the priority. Not in a selfish way, just don't be too "nice". Some would suggest reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy"


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I call them hang around a. 

My wife thinks I’m just crazy that is odd for a 45 year old single guy to be messaging a mans Wife about mundane stuff.

Why does he need to message my Wife. It’s destroyed my marriage and my Wife let it happen.



Chaparral said:


> Did you look up male orbiters? Sounds like she is addicted to the attention of inferior males she would not think of being with........until she does.
> 
> Does she have more male friends than girl friends?


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

concernedhub said:


> That I know of she has a no history of cheating. She did share with me *during her marriage she talked to some guy about problems in her marriage and when she told her ex about it he had a blow up with her. *


You said her husband was frequently away for work, she was talking about her marriage etc. with another man, and her husband blew up at her. That sounds suspiciously like minimizing to me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Going out on a single lunch or dinner date without me would cause a divorce. Much less more than one. Hiding the fact is infidelity.

It seems like though you would have caught all the texting before marriage.

As Insaid before, download THE MARRIED MAN SEX LFE PRIMER. Sounds like a sexy manual but it isn’t. I wish you had read it before you confronted her again but you are on your own timeline now.

Also, get the book NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass. It s the definitive work on your situation. 

MMSLP will show you how to protect your boundaries and decide if there is anything worth working for. If I were a newly wed and was only having sex a couple of times a month I would be going crazy.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

msrv23 said:


> OP I might not fully know all the details of your marriage so I might be wrong here. But it seems like you guys are making decisions hot headed.
> 
> You guys talked about this for many times. But have you tried different ways to do so? Maybe your communication skills need to get better, or something else. How much have you learned and read to improve? Have you considered MC where they can help both sides improve and reach understanding?
> 
> If you just talked about things the same way over and over again then it would not solve anything.


Or maybe his wife needs to spend time with her husband and set her phone down. Also might help if she wasn’t upset because she has been skipping out of lunch and dinner dates with her male friends.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I call them hang around a.
> 
> My wife thinks I’m just crazy that is odd for a 45 year old single guy to be messaging a mans Wife about mundane stuff.
> 
> *Why does he need to message my Wife. It’s destroyed my marriage and my Wife let it happen.*


This say it all. She chose them over the guy she married says it all. 

She found you to be a great guy to help raise her kids. But she wasn’t in love with you. That is the separation or distance you are feeling between the two of you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> She told me she can’t be with a man who is insecure and does not trust her.


Your W may call it insecurity. You may call it mate guarding. I call it mate guarding. Look it up.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

jlcrome said:


> Two things stand out you have "anger" issues plus "snooping". Even you may not have controlling problems etc..women see this as crossing boundries.


 The issue is not that the OP has “anger” issues like you claim. The issue is that the OP’s wife has very weak boundaries. When a single guy called the OP’s wife late at night for dinner and drinks, and the wife feels that this is OK and that she had a right to go if she wanted to, that would not be OK with most husbands. As for what you call “snooping”, many believe that those with nothing to hide hide nothing, and that if something your spouse is doing causes concern you have a right to look.

@OP: I bet if you talked to your wife’s ex, their would be a good chance that her loose boundaries had something to do with the divorce, and they he may have suspected cheating, but just could not prove it beyond any doubt. As an FYI, a major study showed that most cheating goes completely undetected even if it leads to a divorce.


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## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

manwithnoname said:


> The problem with MC is she doesn't think there is anything wrong with what she's doing, or worse, knows it's wrong but does it anyway and doesn't care what her husband thinks.
> 
> We don't know the exact wording of the discussions, and he may have come across as weak, needy etc. so his latest action of filing should speak the loudest and clearest.


MC might help her realise that she is not doing it right. Sometimes one person might think they are right and not willing to change but a third person, specially a neutral counselor, can help them understand the other's perspective and feelings.

If so then it would all depend on how willing she is to make things work. Someone who does care can eventually see their wrong and be willing to change.


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## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> I’ve tried every angle I can think of. I wish had found this site sooner.this is why I’m asking for advice as I’m confused and can’t believe it’s happening.
> 
> I will ask her to try counselling but not sure it will help.
> 
> ...


The stress is really too much and it must be very hard for you... I would say that you should put the ultimatum in the following way: she either agrees with you on MC and work over the issue together or divorce.

Arguing over why you feel this way and if she is wrong might not be productive. Saying that she either stops talking with other guys or divorce might not help as well because she clearly is not seeing nor understanding how you feel. This is very frustrating for you of course, but maybe try to "win" the situation bit by bit by first getting her to MC as a counselor can be better equiped with skills to lead her to understand you than you.

If she isn't even willing to MC with you then yes, it's not worth staying with her.


----------



## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I have a critical thing we are working on right now that requires her to help as it involves house refinance and I have my phone ringing non stop and she won’t even reply to my text or call so this is just more drama I don’t need.

She is so dismissive it’s absurd. And I don’t play silent treatment games.

She said I’m the one who needs to change and accept fact she has male friends 
And that she’d never do anything that crosses the line. Then she said she said this will never end as she knows I will never like her male friends and if I want divorce to go ahead.

So marriage counselling would be a waste as her mind is closed off.



msrv23 said:


> manwithnoname said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with MC is she doesn't think there is anything wrong with what she's doing, or worse, knows it's wrong but does it anyway and doesn't care what her husband thinks.
> ...


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@concernedhub, you wrote ". I asked her if one of her ex colleagues was nearby and asked her to lunch she said she would go and specifically said "why not". "

The answer is of course, because you KNOW how upset this makes me, and if this is your response it makes me realize that you are much more selfish than I realized, and perhaps you are not for me.
You need to make her realize HOW upset this makes you and do NOT allow her to blow it off with "you are too controlling/jealous/etc.". This is a real emotion, and obviously serious enough that you may want to divorce over it. You really need to make it clear how important this is, and then she is free to decide that she does love you and will give it up, or if she wants to remain selfish and let you go.

However a few points. HER going out to dinner alone with a man is NOT acceptable, period (that is a date). If she can't see that, then..... Her texting her ex, they DO need to do that for the kids, and I can see where sometimes other things may pop up. You CAN tell her that you are not comfortable with her discussing intimate details of her and/or your life with the ex, but you really can't stop this due to the children. They DO have to co-parent.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

The issue with her ex is that he seems to use the kids as a negotiating tool and she always caved to him.

One day she had to take kids over to his place then come to find out she gave him a ride to show him where the kids were having a sleep over and where he needed to pick them up.

Rather than just give him the address she’s riding around with him in car I pay for.

Are they messing around, no.

But my Wife never told me I found out from snooping but this is numerous case like this.

He recently sent her message with picture of brownies he made and asked how to make them better.thats a violation of a boundary as it was zero to do with kids last I checked there’s plenty of websites to get recipes.

And it’s just disturbing that he would be thinking hey let me message my ex about cooking brownies I took it as a slap in face.

I’m also divorced with a Daughter but I don’t get engage in small talk with my ex or initiate chit chat on cooking etc randomly.
I get along with my ex W but we respect each other’s new partners.

I don’t get that same respect.


jlg07 said:


> @concernedhub, you wrote ". I asked her if one of her ex colleagues was nearby and asked her to lunch she said she would go and specifically said "why not". "
> 
> The answer is of course, because you KNOW how upset this makes me, and if this is your response it makes me realize that you are much more selfish than I realized, and perhaps you are not for me.
> You need to make her realize HOW upset this makes you and do NOT allow her to blow it off with "you are too controlling/jealous/etc.". This is a real emotion, and obviously serious enough that you may want to divorce over it. You really need to make it clear how important this is, and then she is free to decide that she does love you and will give it up, or if she wants to remain selfish and let you go.
> ...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

She said "She just said she was a fool to have a jealous husband and I told her I'm solving that problem and it silenced her.
"

You should tell her, its a shame I married a woman who is too selfish to put her husband's feeling ahead of trivial BS texting with other men. IF those texts are really trivial and just light hearted and don't mean anything, then WHY is that more important than your marriage?

MAYBE you should also tell her that you really DO love her and your life together except for this one issue -- ask HER is trivial meaningless texting worth giving up THAT? Would she consider counseling?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> I have a critical thing we are working on right now that requires her to help as it involves house refinance and I have my phone ringing non stop and she won’t even reply to my text or call so this is just more drama I don’t need.
> 
> She is so dismissive it’s absurd. And I don’t play silent treatment games.
> 
> ...


CH re-read what you just posted. Having a hard time understanding why she married you in the first place. Go ahead and file? I am beginning to wonder if she has ever loved you. 

Why the heck didn’t she marry the guy she keeps texting? She has known him longer then you. 

Was he a FWB before the two of you started to date?

Ask her if he was and this will tell you weather she is actually cheating on you.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Unfortunately any kind of rational explanation like this falls on deaf ears.

You and I agree is one would think she would not want to risk marriage over guys who do nothing for her. She will end up dealing with the consequences.



Yeswecan said:


> concernedhub said:
> 
> 
> > She told me she can’t be with a man who is insecure and does not trust her.
> ...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

concernedhub said:


> Unfortunately any kind of rational explanation like this falls on deaf ears.
> 
> You and I agree is one would think she would not want to risk marriage over guys who do nothing for her. She will end up dealing with the consequences.


She is not salvageable as a wife in my opinion, because from everything you have told us, she is unable to commit fully to a future with you. People like her lack the ability to rise above emotion and commit themselves to real, honest, active love. Your wife floats on the wind with no emotional anchor. She latches on to something, then lets go and latches on to something else, and so on and so on. You cannot be married to a person who lacks the same commitment you have to the marriage.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Let's face it: She doesn't really care that much if he divorces her. That's all there is to it. She is CLEARLY not in love with the OP. I loved my wife. When she first mentioned the word divorce and I could tell she meant it, I was DEVASTATED. This woman is treating it like she's having to go trade in a used car. 
She isn't going to budge. She's too needy of male attention and quite possibly male sexual attention to stop it all, or just is looking for an excuse to divorce OP. 

She is not giving an inch, even when it comes to divorce. I'd divorce her. I really think it's probably what she wants.

OP, you can find another woman. Don't lose faith in all women over your lousy specimen's character. All women don't do this, I assure you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> Unfortunately any kind of rational explanation like this falls on deaf ears.
> 
> You and I agree is one would think she would not want to risk marriage over guys who do nothing for her. She will end up dealing with the consequences.


The issue here is these guys do do something for your W. Why else would she be hanging around with them and disregard your concerns? 

The consequence is you leaving the marriage because you can not live this way. Personally, the upset is not worth it. There are many out there who do not treat their spouse like this. You will find that individual. As for this openly non-caring bird, let it go.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

concernedhub said:


> my wife says I'm a chauvinist and not all men think like me, etc. I just had a 15 minute talk with her and she told me she's sick of this topic.
> 
> So you are right, I'm starting to resent her, and she's starting to push away. Total stalemate.


You would only be a chauvinist if you didn't want her to have close male friends, but thought it was alright for you to have close female friends. If she thinks you are a chauvinist because you have told her what Andy said about wanting to bed every woman he went to a bar with, then she is stupid and has her head in the sand...or she is lying to you because she knows that is how most men think.

She is sick of the topic because she doesn't want to budge an inch.

It is a stalemate.

What do you do when you are in a stalemate in Chess? The game is over and you start a new game.

Are you willing to spend the rest of your life suffering like this, only to be divorced a few years down the line? The issue you are dealing with will create a deep enough riff in your marriage to lead to divorce eventually unless you either get over it, or she stops doing what bothers you.

I don't believe you will get over it. I don't think you should, because I agree with you.

You need to tell her that this issues is divorce worthy, and if she doesn't move away from those friendships and enforce good boundaries, you will be starting the process to end the marriage for your own sanity. Go get the divorce packet and start filling it out. Start separating your finances, etc. The longer you are in this marriage, the more collateral damage you will experience, aside from your shattered heart.

If she loves you, she will stop her nonsense when she sees that you are not going to live a stalemate, but you will extricate yourself from her and her "friends."


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I asked her via text and she is agreeable to go to a counselor.

I don’t have much faith but I have nothing to lose at this point.

This whole thing has totally worn me out.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

@concernedhub - MC is going to be a disaster for you. She will make you out to be a controlling jealous man and in all likelihood, the MC will latch on to this focus all of the attention on making you less controlling. In reality, this is 99+% on her. You need to vet out the MC prior to going and bail the 1st time the MC accuses you of being controlling. If my W went on dinner and drinks dates with other men, the controlling part of me would be to file. You need to get angry here, you really don't have anything to lose, you clearly don't have a marriage any sane man would sign up for....


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> I asked her via text and she is agreeable to go to a counselor.
> 
> I don’t have much faith but I have nothing to lose at this point.
> 
> This whole thing has totally worn me out.


I give counseling one session and done. The counselor will agree it is controlling because on the surface it is controlling. You will get a billing of 1 hour at $500.00 for getting information on what controlling entails. Under the surface, the underlying issue of basically dating OM, will be greatly ignored. Your concerns and upset will be found to be unwarranted. You will be sent on your way with another session scheduled. 

Find a counselor that talks with eash first as individuals. Then brings you in together.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

She's agreeable to a counselor because she wants to stall to calm you down for you to fall into "place" or to have an MC agree with her. 

As the previous poster recommended you bail if the MC accuses you of being controlling, she will likely bail if the MC says she's acting inappropriately. Going to be tough.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually, we have seen many good counselors here but also a lot
of bad. If I were you I would pick the counselor and try to make it a male.
Not all counselors are naive and there are many dealing with inappropriate social media behavior. 

If you find a counselor that is okay with a wife going on lunch and dinner dates with male friends and spending free time with her online friends instead of you, I will be surprised.

Good idea but be prepared to stand your ground and walk. Anytime you can’t handle a spouse’s behavior you have to walk.

GET THE BOOKS!!!


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I don’t know what to expect earliest appt is 1.5 weeks away.

If this doesn’t work I’m done. I just don’t think she will just flip a switch and see the light. It pisses me off I have to convince her that it disrespects our marriage.



Chaparral said:


> Actually, we have seen many good counselors here but also a lot
> of bad. If I were you I would pick the counselor and try to make it a male.
> Not all counselors are naive and there are many dealing with inappropriate social media behavior.
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't agree with the marriage counseling due to her attitude. She doesn't want to fix things, SHE wants to divorce. All OP is doing is looking weak and finding anything he can to keep this marriage with a complete imbalance of "power" that is in his wife's favor. She could probably do any number of things, say any number of things and OP would quickly lay down and accept whatever she says, as long as she appears on the surface to be stopping the communication after work hours with other men... (Oh, I forgot, she doesn't work anymore, LOL) 

It seems obvious that OP is just a wallet that allows her to stay home and make lunch dates with other men, and to allow them to entertain her either on the phone or whatever else.


OP, just let her go. What single statement has she made during your last couple of days that shows she VALUES HER MARRIAGE in ANY WAY? I haven't seen you write one.

This kind of stuff just doesn't get better. Counseling is just going to draw out the pain in this case.

You're insecure, overly jealous, etc. etc. I'm not changing my behavior whatsoever. I'm allowed to have all the male friends I want, and have lunch with them whenever. "WHY NOT?????"
That's her attitude and no counselor is going to change the fact that this woman places no value at all on her husband. At least, I haven't seen anything in this thread that shows that she does. And the OP doesn't feel she does.

Stick a fork in it. If she wanted the OP, she'd be showing him she does. DUMP HER.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

concernedhub said:


> I asked her via text and she is agreeable to go to a counselor.
> 
> I don’t have much faith but I have nothing to lose at this point.


 Counselors cannot change your core values, they instead try to find common ground. Since you and your wife do not agree on basic values, going to a counselor is a waste of time and money as it will result in one of 3 outcomes.

1) The counselor will agree with you, with your wife being critical of the counselor as she continues not following boundaries, and it ending in divorce. At 50 years old your wife is who she is, a counselor will not change that.

2) The counselor will agree with your wife, which will empower your wife to ignore even more boundaries, and it ending in divorce. At 49 years old you are who you are, a counselor will not change that.

3) The counselor will not agree with either of you as the counselor drags the process out, which will empower your wife to continue her current path of not following boundaries, and it ending in divorce.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She should read this thread to see what others think of her actions. >:
:wtf:
:rules:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

concernedhub said:


> I asked her via text and she is agreeable to go to a counselor.
> 
> I don’t have much faith but I have nothing to lose at this point.
> 
> This whole thing has totally worn me out.


Take all the cash you have in your wallet along with your cards and flush them down the toilet. 

That is what you will be doing with your money in MC.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Take all the cash you have in your wallet along with your cards and flush them down the toilet.
> 
> That is what you will be doing with your money in MC.


My wife and I went to counseling once before this past Christmas. When we finished our first session an hour and a half later the counselor looked at my wife and asked what were you thinking. We haven’t been back.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

concernedhub said:


> Unfortunately any kind of rational explanation like this falls on deaf ears.
> 
> You and I agree is one would think she would not want to risk marriage over guys who do nothing for her. She will end up dealing with the consequences.


You will both deal with the consequences of divorce. I think that the most unfortunate thing is that this issue didn't come up when the two of you were dating. I agree with the others that counseling is not going to be helpful because she probably feels that she is doing nothing wrong and you will not be willing to accept this behavior of hers. At this point, I don't think that either of you are even willing to attempt to see it through each other's perspectives.

For what it's worth, I would also be uncomfortable if my wife was spending time alone with her ex-husband and driving him places.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Well I feel I have to at least give it a shot. If she can't see how it damages our marriage then I fill out the papers.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@OP: You are only 49 years old, have been married less than 2 years, and have no children together. That means you still have have time to find someone else, little if any alimony, and no child support. Staying married to someone that picks the right to date her male single friends (late night dinner and drinks is a date) as she dismisses your feelings, only to eventually get divorced later when she no longer needs your help in raising her children, will only waste years of your life and cost you more money in the eventual divorce.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Visit these OM in person make it known you don't want them in your marriage and their actions are inappropriate.

If they have wive or SOs make it know to them as well.

When I recovered my marriage there were a few OM types orbiting my W, in the one case I sent a message to his fiance. My W didn't like it but I set up a firm barrier and showed that I will act and take any means necessary.

Tamat


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> Well I feel I have to at least give it a shot. If she can't see how it damages our marriage then I fill out the papers.


What you need to find out is if the guy that you’re really worried about used to be a friends with benefits.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

At this point the way I see it the OP is the proverbial rat drowning, trying to hold onto a a piece of straw, no realizing that death is near. We are here talking about middle age people pretty much set on their own ways. 

The OP already had strike out a few times trying to convey to his wife what a deal breaker her texting and making co-workers dates with other men is to him but quite ineffectively. I knew the moment he reported to TAM that he sat her and gave the ultimatum's of else or divorce that he was going to falter, it was obvious. He was not ready for that. He was warned not to do it, and that if he did to follow through with his ultimatum, but now as expected he is not filing, he is trying MC. What a meekly, weak response to his previous bravado. He is just setting himself for the merry-go-round that it's coming, mostly him coming out as a insecure controlling individual that has not confidence in himself, and in the end being defeated by his lack of alpha male behavior.

Personally, I don't have any qualms, about my wife texting male's co-workers. I'm very secure in my relationship of 25 years with my wife, but I understand that there are people that are extremely conservative, and cannot fathom this type of interactions in today's modern world. It's just the way it is to them. I read OP comment on another thread and you can tell he is very set in his values by now (very conservative). His wife's values most likely are not aligned with his. This does not makes her any less or wrong by any standards, it just that she does not sees it wrong, because most likely, she has no other interest in these men other than they being her core group of friends, but I could be wrong for all I know. By the same token, just as he demands, she rightly can demand, and a middle ground should be achieved. Not just her caving in to his demands.

But by now, the OP wife's is tune out of his demands without any teeth to it, so she just plays him, and based on his description of their interactions, she must likely is not that much into him and he is into her. We'll just have to see and wait if he folds either way.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

concernedhub said:


> Well I feel I have to at least give it a shot. If she can't see how it damages our marriage then I fill out the papers.


May be time to cut your losses. You haven't been married that long and you don't have kids together. 

I believe that men and women can be friends, even if married, but if it's a big secret and the spouse is not okay with it, then hell no. If you have told her that over and over and she's still prioritizing that over you, her own spouse, then I say, get out.

I wish you luck.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Thanks for feedback I’m giving lot of thought to this.

While I don’t think my wife would ever cheat on me I also don’t like the feeling that she gives them access to our lives even if innocent chatter. My Wife said they worked side by side for many years and nothing ever happened or would happen.

I just can’t see why this guy has to be around. They don’t work together anymore.
Just don’t like the feeling that she gives time and effort to other men.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

concernedhub said:


> I don’t think my wife would ever cheat on me


 You saying “I don’t think my wife would ever cheat on me” is exactly what almost all cheated on spouses say on this site just prior to finding out that their spouse cheated on them. I kid you not, you are following the script to tee.



concernedhub said:


> I also don’t like the feeling that she gives them access to our lives even if innocent chatter.


 Giving them access to personal information about their spouse and their relationship with their spouse is one of main indicators of an emotional affair (EA).



concernedhub said:


> My Wife said they worked side by side for many years and nothing ever happened or would happen.


 Your wife assuring you that “nothing ever happened or would happen” is exactly what every cheater in an EA says to their spouse that posts to this site, because people in EA’s do not consider being in an EA to be cheating. It is also what every cheated on spouse tells us their spouse said just prior to finding out that their spouse was in a physical affair (PA).

If you read posts in the infidelity section of this site, you will soon see the pattern followed by cheaters and their spouses, that are so similar to each other that it almost seems like they are all reading from a script.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> Sorry I'm venting here but to be honest I feel like my marriage is done.
> 
> Reading online and on this forum I see this topic is everywhere on the internet and from what I read if I tell her I'm not OK with things then she will say I'm controlling and then resent not having contact with those guys. She may even just do it anyways and not tell me. And if I just ignore like no big deal my anger will deepen feeling she's giving her time and attention to other men even if it's not outright cheating.
> 
> ...


I am not going to talk you off the ledge as I feel you are making sense......


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

concernedhub said:


> Thanks for feedback I’m giving lot of thought to this.
> 
> While I don’t think my wife would ever cheat on me I also don’t like the feeling that she gives them access to our lives even if innocent chatter. My Wife said they worked side by side for many years and nothing ever happened or would happen.
> 
> ...


You are not wrong in your thinking......Act on it!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She’s just not that into you. 

Absent the financial benefits, she wouldn’t be with you.

A woman who really loves her man, doesn’t act like this. A woman who is tolerating a relationship for her own gain, definitely acts like this. 

It’s the ‘your are lucky I’m with you at all, don’t try and tell me what to do’. 

Watch how fast the marriage ends if you took that approach with her on financial matters. 

But this was all clear by the time you married. It was why you were snooping on her. At some level it’s obvious she isn’t that into you and as a result you don’t trust her. 

And fwiw - I also don’t think she is cheating. However, she is trying to set up a situation where it would be easy for her to cheat if she wanted to. Eventually she will. 

As to why she isn’t that into you - probably not fixable. 




concernedhub said:


> I don’t know what to expect earliest appt is 1.5 weeks away.
> 
> If this doesn’t work I’m done. I just don’t think she will just flip a switch and see the light. It pisses me off I have to convince her that it disrespects our marriage.


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## Tonto (Feb 17, 2018)

concernedhub said:


> I have done lot of reading of this forum recently and really almost don't know where to begin and need some help and need people to talk to about my wife.
> My wife worked previously in IT and has a lot of male friends whom text her to what I think it too much.
> 
> Also, early on in the marriage she went to lunch with a male ex colleague and I found out after snooping on her phone after my gut felt like too much contact with the ex colleague. She never hid who he was but the lunch thing felt like a betrayal and had created trust issue for me after being cheated on.
> ...


You will screw your relationship up with wife N°2 with your jealous and possessive attitude, take some chill pills and relax.

My wife is a professional in a male dominated Civil Engineering and has been since before we married.

She has always attends trade shows and multiple day conferences without me, staying in hotels, I do not know my beam from high density support, so why would I go ??? she meets colleagues regularly for lunch, and has Dinner rendezvous with clients, she like your wife gets texts all the time and phone calls.

You either trust your partner or you do not !!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

concernedhub said:


> Thanks for feedback I’m giving lot of thought to this.
> 
> While I don’t think my wife would ever cheat on me I also don’t like the feeling that she gives them access to our lives even if innocent chatter. My Wife said they worked side by side for many years and nothing ever happened or would happen.
> 
> ...


Because she wants it and I might add your feelings don't matter to her. You are just a convienence. Jumping into MC is a "save me" action when you should quit being weak and fix this yourself.

You'll either accept her and her actions or you won't. Waffling around in this won't get you a thing except more heartburn waiting for her to "get it" when you are the one who isn't "getting it". This is who she is and will continue to be.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rob_1 said:


> *At this point the way I see it the OP is the proverbial rat drowning, trying to hold onto a a piece of straw, no realizing that death is near. We are here talking about middle age people pretty much set on their own ways. *
> 
> The OP already had strike out a few times trying to convey to his wife what a deal breaker her texting and making co-workers dates with other men is to him but quite ineffectively. I knew the moment he reported to TAM that he sat her and gave the ultimatum's of else or divorce that he was going to falter, it was obvious. He was not ready for that. He was warned not to do it, and that if he did to follow through with his ultimatum, but now as expected he is not filing, he is trying MC. What a meekly, weak response to his previous bravado. He is just setting himself for the merry-go-round that it's coming, mostly him coming out as a insecure controlling individual that has not confidence in himself, and in the end being defeated by his lack of alpha male behavior.
> 
> ...


Good analogy of where OP is at.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Tonto said:


> You will screw your relationship up with wife N°2 with your jealous and possessive attitude, take some chill pills and relax.
> 
> My wife is a professional in a male dominated Civil Engineering and has been since before we married.
> 
> ...


Difference is she no longer works with these guys, so there is no "work" involved.


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## msrv23 (Jul 14, 2017)

MC’s objective isn’t to say who’s right and who’s wrong. It is to help a couple understand each other better and learn ways to communicate and work as a team. A good counselor is neutral and helps each side work on their flaws in communication and what blocks their understanding.

OP’s wife might not be working but she might still have friends from past work. But I’m a bit confused here. OP is your issue with any kind of chit chat between her and male friends? Or are you not ok with her crossing the line such as letting them know about your life together, going out to meet them and so on. Because there is a difference between not wanting your wife to chit chat with male friends at all and not wanting her to cross the line on certain things while being ok with chit chat as long as there are limits.

I don’t know if your wife really does not care for you or if she is simply not being able to understand your side while refusing to stop what she is doing because she might truly perceive it as controlling. She might think that not being allowed to chit chat with other males or have male friends is unreasonable so she can’t accept such. If one perceives her spouse to be controlling and making unreasonable demands, is it the right thing to do to simply do what they want? If a spouse asks the other to stop having friends is it the best to do so? It might not sound healthy.
On the other hand, the right thing to do would be to acknowledge your feelings and have some empathy here. She should not dismiss your feelings just because she can’t agree with you. She could have tried to work out with you in other ways.
I won’t say that what she does is ok or not. I don’t know her and her values. And I don’t think that it’s productive for me to use my own values about chit chat with males to evaluate and judge the situation of you two. I would just be one more person on this forum to either agree or disagree with you or your wife. What I can say is that you guys have different values here, and she might assume that what she does is ok and might see giving into your demand as losing her own boundaries, while not being able to see or understand how you feel, while you feel hurt because you are invalidated of your feelings and it feels as if she doesn’t care.

I don’t think that difference in values and that leading to one spouse dismissing the other while the other feels invalidated and unloved is something that uncommon. It can happen and is not necessarily because the other doesn’t love you. It csn really be simply because the other failed to understand you and the communication went wrong.
And then sometimes the couple fails to communicate and at the heat makes arguments that might make things worse. For example maybe if OP didn’t jump to ultimatum like stop talking to guys or divorce, but rather we must work it out together like MC or I won’t accept a marriage where my feelings were not cared for could be better. Just as she not having said that you are controlling and I’m free to make friends but instead how she can see you are suffering and let’s work on this together could have worked better.

OP I hope that you can find a good MC. Having had a bad counselor I can see why some members here are pessimistic about it. But I have a good MC now and the counselor doesn’t agree or disagree with any side but actually tries to help us work on communication and understand each side.
If your counselor is good then it can help your wife to realise that being dismissive does hurt you and how she can work on it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Why does your wife not work?

Does she not have any female friends?

Your sex life sux.
Your wife dies not work and contribute financially.
Your wife dismisses your feelings.
She also is willing to divorce you over the desire to talk to male friends.

I'm trying to see the positives in this marriage on your end.
I see the positives on her end.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Why does your wife not work?
> 
> Does she not have any female friends?
> 
> ...


I found them! Between the parentheses ()


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## Tonto (Feb 17, 2018)

My wife no longer works with a lot of the guys she keeps in contact with, Civil Engineering needs to keep up to speed, so does IT, there are new resources in each industry every day, ex work colleagues keep each other up to date !!!!, that is what friendship and professional is all about, keeping on the sharp edge.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Tonto said:


> My wife no longer works with a lot of the guys she keeps in contact with, Civil Engineering needs to keep up to speed, so does IT, there are new resources in each industry every day, ex work colleagues keep each other up to date !!!!, that is what friendship and professional is all about, keeping on the sharp edge.


 It isn’t just that the OP’s wife no longer works with these other men, it’s that she no longer works in IT at all, so “keeping the sharp edge” in IT is not why she sees them. Also, the OP specifically objects to her sharing private relational information that includes the OP with these other men, so enough with the career theory. 

Besides you may agree with the wife’s point of view that she has the right to go out with single guys that the OP does not know without telling the OP about, including late at night for dinner and drinks, but the OP is in keeping with the majority in not being OK with this. Additionally, the wife’s dismissive and uncompromising treatment of the OP on this is not OK.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I truly appreciate you taking the time to write this reply as I need help sorting this out.

Sounds easy to just cut her out of my life as some recommend but I did marry her and I do love her as a person so just flipping emotions is not as simple as it seems. But is may be just good advice that I have to come to terms with as well.

I realize there’s competing camps on this topic and obviously I’m in the camp of opposite sex Friends and going lunch or dinner is a violation of my boundary of marriage. And my values have to matter not just hers.

I will try the MC and hope they are nuetral as you suggest. Also in researching things it is a must as taking either side them will result in that person will feel the MC doing it and their advice won’t be accepted.

I got a male counselor but really not sure how to pre screen one. I used my doctor and told her what’s going on and she gave me this clinic contact.

I could understand if this was work related stuff but when the conversation with these male friends is personal it does not sit well with me. And I also don’t understand the need for these guys to msg her. The good thing is the majority of the time it’s only them initiating.

I have to just accept I’m old school at almost 50 years old. Our boundaries don’t align and right now I don’t know if it’s fixable or even how to fix this.

I do resent the fact that she can’t see it’s ripping us apart and willing to just ignore my feelings on it. If some colleague of mine was making my wife uncomfortable it would be clear immediately where the alliegence is. 




msrv23 said:


> MC’s objective isn’t to say who’s right and who’s wrong. It is to help a couple understand each other better and learn ways to communicate and work as a team. A good counselor is neutral and helps each side work on their flaws in communication and what blocks their understanding.
> 
> OP’s wife might not be working but she might still have friends from past work. But I’m a bit confused here. OP is your issue with any kind of chit chat between her and male friends? Or are you not ok with her crossing the line such as letting them know about your life together, going out to meet them and so on. Because there is a difference between not wanting your wife to chit chat with male friends at all and not wanting her to cross the line on certain things while being ok with chit chat as long as there are limits.
> 
> ...


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

We moved for my job and can easily do on my income. When we made the move given the logistics of two teenagers and school etc we decided she would stay at home and take care of the household.

My Wife is second generation American and grew up chinese Mother and she really does take care of the house. Not a spec of dust in our house and meal prepared every night and she’s a good cook. 

With just me working and her taking care of the house it’s actually worked well as my Wife is not stressy as she is fussy about keeping the house clean etc so it net results in more time together. In my opinion are life is less complicated with her staying at home. She picks up and drops the girls and they get parental support and we make sure they do well in school.

She does have female friends. Her true closest friends are female thankfully.

I read out there where people are now using the term work Husband or work Wife. I just can’t put my head around people who would be ok with their spouse being Super close to another person just does not sit well with me.




Evinrude58 said:


> Why does your wife not work?
> 
> Does she not have any female friends?
> 
> ...


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## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> I could understand if this was work related stuff but when the conversation with these male friends is personal it does not sit well with me. And I also don’t understand the need for these guys to msg her. The good thing is the majority of the time it’s only them initiating.
> 
> I have to just accept I’m old school at almost 50 years old. Our boundaries don’t align and right now I don’t know if it’s fixable or even how to fix this.


Boundaries are not just some "old school" thing. Emotional intimacy is reserved for your supposed life partner, not other people who you COULD have physical intimacy with, whether or not you think you will is irrelevant. People cheat often because they didn't realize how emotional connections lead to a desire for physical closeness. Most relationships start first by getting to know someone, telling them about your life and move into the physical arena. 

This is why your alarm bells are going off. You read her messages and how different are they from your initial messages to your wife, back when you were dating and learning about each other? Even though your wife has known these guys, she is still keeping them up to date on her life. It's possible she BELIEVES that she won't cheat and that its ok because no obvious flirting is going on. But flirting and feeling desire comes AFTER sharing your feelings and what's going on in your life with someone you technically could feel desire for. 

This is not something old school. These are the ins and outs of a healthy foundation to a relationship. Not texting personal things to opposite sex friends, not being ready to go on a date on a whim with an opposite sex friend, not dismissing and insulting your partner's feelings. Your wife saying you just a jealous husband, because she had prior experiences with a jealous husband, would be equivlant to you responding with, "well i didn't want a cheating wife" because you had a prior partner cheat on you. Its insulting and accusatory. 

Trust me, young or old, these things are not old fashioned, in the sense that its outdated. 

I know its hard to divorce again and so soon, but this isn't going to get better. Delaying divorce is going to f*ck with your feelings, leave tormenting yourself with this relationship. Not to mention bonding with your stepdaughters more as this heads to divorce anyway. 

Next time talk about boundaries AND listen to your intended partner describe her previous relationships. Think about her descriptions from an objective stance. What your wife said to you about her ex "blowing up" over her chatting with other men should have clued you in on how she feels about that topic.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Thanks this is more to think about.



luxnoctis said:


> concernedhub said:
> 
> 
> > I could understand if this was work related stuff but when the conversation with these male friends is personal it does not sit well with me. And I also don’t understand the need for these guys to msg her. The good thing is the majority of the time it’s only them initiating.
> ...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

concernedhub said:


> We moved for my job and can easily do on my income. When we made the move given the logistics of two teenagers and school etc we decided she would stay at home and take care of the household.





concernedhub said:


> She picks up and drops the girls and they get parental support and we make sure they do well in school.


This confirms that every day that you stay in this marriage will geometricly increase the amount of time that you will be paying large alimony payments after she is done using you as her male provider, while she raises her and her ex’s children. Time is not on your side here. Time is literally money.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> listen to your intended partner describe her previous relationships. Think about her descriptions from an objective stance. What your wife said to you about her ex "blowing up" over her chatting with other men should have clued you in on how she feels about that topic.


The OP’s wife talking about her ex “blowing up” over her relationship with other men, means that the OP was not alone in finding these relationships inappropriate. Also, if the OP ever had a one on one conversation with his wife’s ex, the odds are high that infidelity was at least a concern if not more of an issue in the divorce.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Let me take some guesses:

She is not, nor has she ever been a passionate lover. Sex with her is pretty much duty sex, and she has likely told you she could do without ever having sex, period. Am I right?

If the above is true.....

She may not be interested in other men physically, therefore truly doesn't see your point of view. 

I'll be interested in hearing about your wife's desire for sex she you were dating.... whether or not you'd consider her a passionate lover.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> So your wife is Asian, correct?
> 
> Let me take some guesses:
> 
> ...


What? 

Before I blastoff I'm giving you the chance to clarify t your racist assumptions about his wife.


The sex trade is booming in Asia with Asian sex workers and most of those that are paying are NOT ASIAN.

I guess these customers just love to pay for boring sex.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

How bout this post- takeoff on his Asian wife post-

So your wife is Black, correct?

Let me take some guesses-

Total racist vitriol ensues-

How is Evinrude not banned?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tonto said:


> You will screw your relationship up with wife N°2 with your jealous and possessive attitude, take some chill pills and relax.
> 
> My wife is a professional in a male dominated Civil Engineering and has been since before we married.
> 
> ...


Since one out of three married women eventually cheat, what percentage of their husbands do you think believed exactly what you wrote. Btw, if YOUR wife does or has cheated, there is only a 1 in 5 chance you will find out. The statistics are a b****.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

I find your post highly offensive.

I met my Wife through her Sister who was coroporate counsel of a public ally traded company.

My Wife is educated and has four year degree her brother my Brother in law has a masters. 

She comes from a good family and I don’t know what you know about Asian but there is a lot of wealth it’s not all third world countries.

We lived overseas for a while and I have many good friends around the world.

The problem is many Americans don’t have a clue what is reality overseas.

My Wife may have **** boundaries but she does have class.



Evinrude58 said:


> So your wife is Asian, correct?
> 
> Let me take some guesses:
> 
> ...


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Thank you and I appreciate the sentiment.

I’ve endured racism since being with my Wife and it makes me pretty defensive about it.





sandcastle said:


> How bout this post- takeoff on his Asian wife post-
> 
> So your wife is Black, correct?
> 
> ...


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

It is kinda shocking to think about how people could be hiding pretty much anything from you.

Reading this forum can get me down seeing how people treat each other.

Truly sad.



Chaparral said:


> Tonto said:
> 
> 
> > You will screw your relationship up with wife N°2 with your jealous and possessive attitude, take some chill pills and relax.
> ...


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> It is kinda shocking to think about how people could be hiding pretty much anything from you.
> 
> *Reading this forum can get me down seeing how people treat each other.
> *
> Truly sad.


The irony of this is amusing. Have you read what you wrote about how your wife is treating you? 

Yeah, really classy lady there.

Your only chance to fix things for you is to follow through with filing. Whether that leads to divorce or not.


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## concernedhub (Feb 15, 2018)

Yes sir I’m well aware I’m in the same situation. And I don’t find it amusing for any of us, it’s sucks to be honest.

As for class my Wife is not some pathetic person who serves her Husband and gives duty sex like a good little Asian which is what that message implied.



manwithnoname said:


> concernedhub said:
> 
> 
> > It is kinda shocking to think about how people could be hiding pretty much anything from you.
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just going by my own experience. I'm not racist. I've dated several Asians. Sorry, the ones I've dated just weren't tha into sex. 4 for 4.

I can see how my post was offensive however. But I never said your wife wAs uneducated or not classy. I just implied she's not that into sex with anyone. I do see I was generalizing, and that is wrong. 

If I should be banned for my offensive comment, so be it. Ban away.

Yes, I did imply you were getting duty sex. What would you call it? Passionate, great sex?

10 times a year is a sexless marriage, to me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

sandcastle said:


> What?
> 
> Before I blastoff I'm giving you the chance to clarify t your racist assumptions about his wife.
> 
> ...


I agree my post sounded racist. But it was just my experience with 4 out of 4 Asians I've dated. 
One was extremely beautiful, and she asked me to marry her and come live with her in her city. She owned a business there. Extremely classy lady. I even considered it. But I actually asked her if she had a low drive or high drive, and she told me she could do without sex with no problem. It wasn't a priority for her at all. She had a gorgeous body and was good in our activities. Just wasn't passionate.
I could see down the road, possibly being starved by her.

I'm sure my experience was not representative of the population as a whole, and wish I hadn't said it. But I don't consider myself a racist. I don't think poorly of Asians in any way other than it seems from my experience, that they're not that into sex. And I'm also sure I'm wrong in lots of cases. I wish I hadn't posted that, but it's done and you've immortalized it in your quote so that o can't really delete it.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Here's another generalization i find true

Asian women do not like weak men


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> Counselors cannot change your core values, they instead try to find common ground. Since you and your wife do not agree on basic values, going to a counselor is a waste of time and money as it will result in one of 3 outcomes.
> 
> 1) The counselor will agree with you, with your wife being critical of the counselor as she continues not following boundaries, and it ending in divorce. At 50 years old your wife is who she is, a counselor will not change that.
> 
> ...


not wanting t get into the "Asian's are dud's in bed" controversy.......this comment above makes the most sense of anything being said about MC.

If you wife is so entrenched in her views........counseling is just a waste of time and $$. she has to be open to listen and learn and i dont see that happening here. I went to MC with my wife........she picked the counselor. After about 3 or 4 sessions that didnt go "her way"...she accused me of bribing the counselor to take my side and abruptly quit going.

just file and wish her well and tell her sorry it didnt work out.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

concernedhub said:


> Yes sir I’m well aware I’m in the same situation. And I don’t find it amusing for any of us, it’s sucks to be honest.
> 
> As for class my Wife is not some pathetic person who serves her Husband and gives duty sex like a good little Asian which is what that message implied.


Just the irony was amusing. Your situation is not. 

She is clearly not serving you. It seems like a test. Either way, your situation is unacceptable to you, so do not accept it. 

Like I said before, it will work in your favour one way or another if you stand strong and not accept the unacceptable.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Who pushed the counseling?

Was it you OP?

You are going to be eaten alive.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

Your wife is obviously a professional..but she can discuss those things at work with no lunch get togethers if you seem so opposed to them.

However, that's what colleagues do..sometimes going out for lunch..and simply innocent in the fact that they just talk shop. If you feel the need to be invited to one of her lunch meetings, I think she should invite you, introduce you to her colleagues as her husband..and have a lunch that's not at all about shop talk.

I think that would make you much more comfortable with the men she works with as you'll know them. 

The think I'm COMPLETELY against is a colleague asking her out after hours. I don't care if it's Applebees or not..your wife did the right thing by saying she didn't feel like going.

I believe you read too much into some things considering your past history of being cheated on. This is NOT that relationship..so you need to make up your mind to get past all that.

IMO..there was absolutely nothing wrong with your wife saying that she didn't feel like going. Obviously YOU came first and she said what she meant. Would you rather she said, "There's no way I'm meeting him tonight!!" as that would have put even MORE ideas in your head.

Think of it this way..had your wife decided to take the guy up on his offer..but she didn't. It's not like she's stupid and can't tune into a coworker with ulterior motives..which is obvious she did and thus said, "I don't feel like going.."

It was her way of saying that she's committed to you and you only. Lunches are one thing as coworkers often go to lunch together. It doesn't mean they're having affairs with who they have lunch with..it's all shop talk.

I'm repeating myself. You need to get over your jealousy right away and learn to trust her. As independent as she is..she's also in love with you and you only so take that in stride and enjoy the woman you're married to.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

concernedhub said:


> Well I feel I have to at least give it a shot. If she can't see how it damages our marriage then I fill out the papers.


How’s it going @concernedhub.


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