# Newbie, but long time lurker...



## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi everyone. I've been lurking for years now. Four years ago my husband started acting different. I worried he was having an affair with a coworker, but he kept denying anything. I spent two years worrying something was going on, then another two years wondering what happened. After the first two years he had a fall out with this coworker. He became depressed, but really wouldn't tell me what was wrong. Time passed and he slowly became his old self again and our marriage was going great and he was more involved with our girls. But, I've had alot of doubt over these years and it finally came to a boiling point for me. I couldn't take it anymore. 

See, right around the time he had the fall out with this coworker I discovered I was HPV positive. Yep, we had been married 13 years at that point and you can add at least 2 to 3 more years on top of that of dating. He has always denied any physical contact with anyone for years now. Very adamant and defensive about it. 

Well, about a month ago I laid it all out to him. I was finally determined to get some answers cause I began to feel like I couldn't live anymore with this cloud hanging over us. It took alot of work on my part, but he has finally admitted he had an emotional affair with this coworker, he stills denies any physical contact with her despite the HPV (which has now cleared for me). He was smitten with this girl (Yep, a full 10 years younger than me.) for at least a year before they became "friends". He says it was a slow process, but his friendship grew with her over time and he now realizes it had crossed the line. He won't say the word love to me, but he doesn't argue it when I say it. He claims it was different than his love for me, but realizes it was at a point it could have turned. The sad part is, she was the one that broke it off. He would have kept on if she hadn't ended it. This really hurts. The reasons for this "friendship" ending is vague. He says it was due to a work related issue, but I fear it was because he confronted her about the HPV. Also, this coworker will not look or talk to me! That right there tells me something was wrong. 

I kept on him about having something physical with her or someone else cause of the HPV and finally he broke down and said 8 years ago he french kissed a girl in a club on a business trip. He claims it weighed on him for years and he remembers stepping away from the kiss, excusing himself and getting a taxi, telling himself whatever you do don't let her in the taxi with you. He was very drunk and says it was exciting to have this young girl hit on him, his guilt is he didn't stop the kiss, but after it ended he felt terrible. I told him this doesn't help my trust issues with him, that he kept it a secret for so long. He has always denied anything! He seems to think because it was only french kissing and not sex that it doesn't count as cheating?!? I always asked have you cheated on me and he'd always say no! He acts like I should thank him for controlling himself enough to end it at the kiss. It makes me so sad cause our girls were babies then, we had even had a great family vacation that same week!

At this point, he has moved on from these mistakes. He seems to think I should just forget about it and move on myself. He says things are great now, so let's enjoy the present and look forward to the future. He keeps on and on about how it was all long ago. Is two years with his coworker really that long ago? He says he learned from the kiss at the club and has since not put himself in a situation where that could happen again and as for the "friendship" he says he can look back and see it wasn't appropriate and now says he understands boundaries better. My issues are I'm grieving what I thought was a good marriage and I've lost all trust in him. He was my best friend and I thought I knew him. Now my marriage seems like a big lie. 

I'm going to a counselor, but she seems to be concentrating on I'm obsessing over the past. I think she's headed toward putting me on meds, but I'm really against that. Isn't what I'm going thru normal? I feel insecure, needy, paranoid, mad and depressed. Plus, alot of panic attacks when I start thinking about what may have happened. 

At this point, I don't think he is coming clean about the HPV. He has his story pretty tight at this point. So, can I forgive the kiss and "friendship" for the sake of our girls, but how do I move on with this HPV cloud hanging over me? I'm in no position to leave and I feel like I've invested so much in this marriage. I believe he has truly moved on and he'll agree neither were worth hurting our marriage. He is no longer friends with his coworker and says she isn't who he thought she was, not a very good person. He knows he was used. He did alot of stuff for her. He seems to be trying, but then he gets really mad and defensive if the HPV thing is brought up. Like he's mad I don't trust him or believe him. As much as the kiss and "friendship" hurts, I think adding a physical affair to the mix will be the death blow for me. Maybe he's too scared to admit it? 

I have grasped all straws. The test was a false positive, the virus had been dormant and reactivated cause I was stressed (I will admit I wasn't that good of a girl in college.) or he got it from french kissing and passed it on to me thru oral sex (I have seen reports they now think it can be passed thru deep french kissing). But, I'm no idiot. The timing is dead on to the emotional affair.

How can I accept I'll never get answers and move on with this marriage? He keeps saying he has nothing else to give me, all is now out. I do believe he loves me and is sorry he hurt me. But, please someone tell me how do I move on with questions still being out there? We need to go to marriage counseling, but money is extremely tight. He has recently changed locations (I think some of it has to do with being away from that coworker for me.) and his income is not very dependable right now. My counselor is thru my health insurance, so that we can swing. 

The thought of starting over is overwhelming. I have been with him half of my life, really all of my adult life as I married him very young. I see no end to the hurt and lack of trust. Too many unanswered questions.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well it is entirely possible for the incubation period of HPV to last years and years and only manifest itself when your immune system is compromised. But it isn't likely, thus you are driven crazy with wanting answers that you could only get from a remorseful and truthful husband.


What about the OW, can you contact her and tell her to get tested? Perhaps that may shed some light.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I have thought about going to her, but I think it may be a bad idea. She's not a very nice person. I asked my husband if she had any clue what hell this has caused us and he said I'm sure she doesn't think about us and she probably wouldn't even care. 

Plus, I have no idea how I would go about contacting her. I wouldn't want my husband's coworkers seeing me up there, especially now that he has moved locations. If I contacted her thru Facebook what would I say? 

It is apparent to me their friendship had to be noticeable to others. I'm shocked nobody approached me about this. I know several that work there.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ask him if he will submit to a lie detector (polygraph) test?

I really dont think that you can just let this get buried again, it's obviously eating you alive.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

It's totally eating me alive. I really don't think I can continue worrying so much about this. At this point as much as the kiss and "friendship" hurts I can forgive and move on since he seems to be recommitted back to the family. But, the HPV thing weighs on me too much to move on. Has anyone had any luck with using the lie detector ploy? And is that even truthful? If he goes in nervous and scared would that mess up the results? Like I said, he is so adamant at this point I don't see him changing his story. I almost think he used the kiss to test my reaction. I think he knows if he comes clean about the HPV all hell will break loose.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

personally i'd take more stock in the willingness to take one rather than the results


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

as far as OW- I'd make it a health issue with her. Inform her that both you and your husband have HPV and it would best that if she were to get tested and see how she responds


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

hurtingbadly said:


> Has anyone had any luck with using the lie detector ploy? And is that even truthful? If he goes in nervous and scared would that mess up the results?


Yes, but its not a absolute answer. Unless of course he agrees and takes the test (not going to happen). But, it will give you more "tells" to confirm your suspicions. It's just another method to apply pressure on him and see how he reacts. Maybe it tells you a lot, maybe it tell you very little. But, it worth playing that card.



hurtingbadly said:


> Like I said, he is so adamant at this point I don't see him changing his story. I almost think he used the kiss to test my reaction. I think he knows if he comes clean about the HPV all hell will break loose.


Your a long time lurker, you should know that's called "tickle truth"... in this case, he can trickle some truth down to you and shut the fawcett off all together though. I'm sure he would just assume "take it to the grave" and will only volunteer enough information to placate you.. 

If that doesn't work, I suspect his next card will be anger, or intimidation maybe bluffing action of his side (manipulating). If you are as torn down as you sound and as 'weak, needy, insecure" as you mentioned... that will likely back you down. 

He sounds like a dead end honestly. You may be left with no choice but to take another road to get your information (her).



Almostrecovered said:


> as far as OW- I'd make it a health issue with her. Inform her that both you and your husband have HPV and it would best that if she were to get tested and see how she responds


*edit* Agreed. 

You do have some real leverage with her even if you dont know it. If she does have an STD, she might willingly tell you the truth in fear that you will expose her. I don't know about showing up at her work, but I might use a work related channel such as her work email address to start discussing it with her. You bring that discussion into her 'career universe' she may tell you the thruth to 'shut you up' as long as your not threatening about it?

Just a thought.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Has anyone had luck suggesting the lie detector test?

As for the OW, has anyone done anything like that thru email or Facebook? It seems like I would need to go to her personally to see the reaction? I'm also worried how this would reflect on my husband and his work. 

My counselor asked me if I really wanted to know the truth. That if I got the answers I was looking for would that really help me any since it is the past and he has moved on and is back with us? I told her not knowing is killing me, but if I did get my answer I would probably never want to be with him again. She agreed it was a double edged sword. What is everyone's thoughts on this? Am I best not knowing? What's worse? Suspecting all my life or having sexual images confirmed in my head? I must admit I feel worse now than I did before now that I got confirmation on EA and now that he has confessed about the kiss he had with a stranger on a business trip. Sometimes I wonder if being clueless is best?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Another story could be he actually didn't have a PA with his coworker, but actually slept with the girl on the business trip. Kissing was his trickle truth to me. Course, that would have been 5 years before the HPV test, as opposed to the same time period as the coworker. Either of these would make more sense than me having a HPV virus lay dormant for 13 + years...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

hurtingbadly said:


> What is everyone's thoughts on this? Am I best not knowing? What's worse? Suspecting all my life or having sexual images confirmed in my head? Sometimes I wonder if being clueless is best?


I think you know the answer. This has been festering inside of you for a longtime, look what it's done to you.

I take the stance that I can always handle the truth. I can deal with it and I will learn to heal. You will suprise yourself time and time again with your own resiliancy and what you can deal with. If your never given the opportunity to deal with it, its like a splinter in your soul festering, swelling, nagging and eating at you... Its awful and it will destroy you.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Yes, you are right. The truth will hurt very badly for awhile, but the stress of not knowing for the rest of my life will probably kill me. 

He has definitely been using the anger card with me. He gets very mad when I bring up the HPV. Has even threatened to leave cause he says I don't believe him and never will. Odd, since he says he's in love and committed to us. How do I get him to a point he will talk to me about this without exploding?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> He has definitely been using the anger card with me. He gets very mad when I bring up the HPV. Has even threatened to leave cause he says I don't believe him and never will. Odd, since he says he's in love and committed to us. How do I get him to a point he will talk to me about this without exploding?



that is not a sign of true remorse

and thus you will not recover even with the truth

you need to face some hard facts and that you need to start to prepare to leave the relationship


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> If you got HPV from a prior relationship you probably would have found out about it much sooner. Like when you had your kids. They did full STD screenings with both of my pregnancies. Did they do that when you had your children?



very good point here


I really don't think your HPV has magically appeared from nowhere or from over a decade ago.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> If you got HPV from a prior relationship you probably would have found out about it much sooner. Like when you had your kids. They did full STD screenings with both of my pregnancies. Did they do that when you had your children?
> 
> As far as knowing the truth; I had an ONS when I was very intoxicated and don't remember it. Although my husband would like to know exactly what happened, he knows he never will. I think your situation is different b/c he KNOWS what happened and he also knows that you know something happened. So at this point he is not telling you to protect himself, not to protect you from the pain. You deserve to know IMO. You have already said that it is eating at you and unfortunately, I don't think you can just make that go away with a choice of whether or not you REALLY want to know.


But, I wonder if the HPV was from the girl in the club or the coworker? I had both my kids prior to the kiss. I'm not even sure they tested me back then? I have always had normal paps, I even had a normal pap the year they tested for the HPV. I don't know why they tested me then. That year I had a normal pap, but a positive HPV. The next year the HPV had cleared. My new GYN said she wouldn't have even tested me for the HPV unless I had an abnormal pap. 

I think I could handle him having drunken sex with a stranger (Although, extremely scary!), much better than him having multiple sexual experiences with a coworker he was in love with. That will kill me. What if she had gotten pregnant?!? A ONS seems much easier to deal with. I dunno...


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> that is not a sign of true remorse
> 
> and thus you will not recover even with the truth
> 
> you need to face some hard facts and that you need to start to prepare to leave the relationship


Wow...............


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

let me put it this way


there is a difference between guilt and remorse

your husband's actions so far have been the result of guilt

true remorse is shown through taking 100% of the blame, completely telling the truth, and their actions are those of wanting to repair the relationship rather than looking to "just forget about it and move on" (ie. rug sweeping)

I've said this a lot but I have no qualms about saying it again-


you need 3 things to have proper R

1) No contact
2) Complete transparency 
3) True remorse

iow- you need someone who is willing to do the "heavy lifting" and truly atone for what they have done in order for you to regain trust and heal the marriage

that means no blameshifting, no gaslighting, no trickle truth, no getting angry that you are trying to get answers



I hope you understand what I'm getting at here


so far it does not appear that you have a willing partner right now and that will lead either into a unhappy marriage, a divorce that gets dragged out, or more affairs because he hasn't really faced any real consequences yet


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

OK, just did some reading. HPV is not a routine test they do during pregnancy. My last child was born in 2001. Like I said I've always had normal paps, even the year I tested positive for HPV. So who knows?!? I still think it was from the coworker cause it cleared a year later.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Almostrecovered...
I understand what you are saying. It's just hard to stomach. I'm a SAHM, have little family. This seems almost impossible for me. I don't know where to even start. I feel so bad for our girls...

Angel, we have discussed the HPV to no end. I have read up on it and gone to two docs, both who wouldn't give me an answer. There is so much confusing info out there, I don't think anyone really knows. Some sites will say it can be dormant for years, but again I'm not an idiot. This is such a mess.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

HPV can come and go away.

I had it years ago and it was gone after 6 months (through testing). I haven't had it since.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Almostrecovered...
> I understand what you are saying. It's just hard to stomach. I'm a SAHM, have little family. This seems almost impossible for me. I don't know where to even start. I feel so bad for our girls...



well you need to face it because you will have to

millions of SAHM's have gotten through divorce
millions of children survive divorce just fine
in fact I think setting a good example of being a strong woman would be great for your girls

take a look at my newbie link in my signature and read it please


I think your husband may be more afraid than you right now and by putting D on the table ("Truth, remorse, etc or I leave you") you will put where you are headed to resolution

he will either finally come clean and be willing to do what it takes to repair the marriage (if you want it) or he will refuse and then you will have your answer. And if he takes the out of divorce then you will have lost nothing because it was already lost and at least you can move on with your life and pursue what you deserve.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Based on what I know, I think...

Your husband is lying through his teeth.

You have to get an absolute answer here. 

I do not think without significant pressure and a multi-tiered approach/campaign against/with your husband you are going to get any answers from him. Even then, it's likely he can stone wall you. 

Before you do anything, regardless of the truth I think that you need to give your husband the impression that you just need the truth. That no matter what the whole truth is, you will work on the marriage and that you will not leave him. Tell him that you have always felt you knew the truth in your gut and you have lived assuming that he had had an affair. I think having his guard down and making him feel "safe" about being honest will give you a better chance of getting the whole story out of him.

Somewhere in him, I bet he wants to tell you. He's probably scared of what will happen, and has supressed and lived with what he has done. Him showing anger and frustration when you bring it up is a good sign of his repressed guilt about it. He doesn't want to think about it. Unless he is a truly horrible person and he is void of remorse and immune to guilt it weighs on him. 

You also have the OW as an angle of approach. I also don't think you have a very high probablity of getting answers from her unless you strategize the best approach possible with her. I don't know her, or how she ticks... I can only speculate what approaches you might consider. 

Keeping in mind, the Squeekiest Bolts always get the Grease.

I do think that your best opportunity would be to attack both fronts simulatiously while also putting measures in place to document behind the scenes communications between the two. (ie; Keylogger, phone bill monitoring, VAR's, etc...) I do think they will have a very good reason to talk when you start squeeking too loudly. 

JMHO.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

We just talked. I had been ignoring his calls, but finally after a text from him I picked up. I asked him if he would take a lie detector test and he said yes, definitely. We talked more and then I said again, so if I look into setting up a test you will take it. And he said yes again. But, then he ended the conversation shortly after saying he loved me and had to get back to work. I'll be interested to see if he comes home later and pulls this you don't believe me anyway so why do I need to take a test... So do I go ahead and really schedule a test?!? I bet he thinks I won't really do it. 

He asked me what was forgivable? If I'm ever gonna forgive him. I told him I could forgive the drunken kiss, the close friendship he had with his coworker, I could even forgive a ONS with the club girl or even a PA with his coworker despite it hurting like hell knowing he has moved on and is back with me. What I can't forgive is him lying to me and not giving me the full story. Again, he keeps saying he has given me all he can?????


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

What's a VAR?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

voice activated recorder

best if used in the car as most waywards will conduct their secret calls there


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

hurtingbadly said:


> I asked him if he would take a lie detector test and he said yes, definitely.
> 
> So do I go ahead and really schedule a test?!?


Yes, absolutely. When he gets home you should have names, dates, and addresses of where its going to happen.

IMO.. You need the truth. I hope that what he is telling you now is the whole truth, I really do. But above all, I hope you find peace regardless of what the truth is. WHat's that saying? "the Truth will set you free?" Either way you need to be able to move on with your life. With or without him.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I think it ended badly and they don't even talk to each other anymore, though... So, this would be under the assumption he's worried I'm gonna contact her and he might call her? I bet at this point that's already been done. This upset started a month ago. It's just still going on and on...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

hurtingbadly said:


> I think it ended badly and they don't even talk to each other anymore, though... So, this would be under the assumption he's worried I'm gonna contact her and he might call her? ...


Maybe they already have their story straight? I'm running on the thought that you start contacting her talking about the affair (which he has admitted to) and throwing around lots of questions and the STD conversation... and that they are/were co workers which bring brings career fears into the mix... that would make them need to talk...


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

that_girl said:


> HPV can come and go away.
> 
> I had it years ago and it was gone after 6 months (through testing). I haven't had it since.


Do you think you had it before? And it became active, then cleared itself?

I have read once you have it you always have it, it's just a virus that becomes dormant. In rare cases, it can suddenly become active again. Weak immune system, hormones and even aging can sometimes make it reappear. I tested for the high risk cancer strains, didn't have the wart strains. Again, there is a slim possibility, but the odds it became active during the time of his EA are beyond suspect. I have read almost everyone gets it at some time in their life and it clears itself within a year or two so it doesn't show on tests, even if it's dormant. The nurse told me if they tested everyone about half would come back positive. It's a very common virus, but I've been married almost 17 years now!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You can get it from mutual masturbation...or if they touch themselves and then you.

I don't know what to tell you. Sucky thing is, they don't have a test for men that's accurate.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Maybe they already have their story straight? I'm running on the thought that you start contacting her talking about the affair (which he has admitted to) and throwing around lots of questions and the STD conversation... and that they are/were co workers which bring brings career fears into the mix... that would make them need to talk...


He claims they never discussed their feelings for each other, he didn't even realize what was happening until their friendship ended. Then when he became depressed he realized maybe the friendship was more than it should have been. That it really wasn't appropriate. He said he gave her special treatment. So I don't really know if she felt the same way as he did. She's younger. It really could have been a situation of her taking advantage of him. He wouldn't even say the words emotional affair until I hounded him. He says I'm overreacting and knows I'm hurt, but doesn't understand the severity of my hurting. Course. Anyway, this is all under the assumption sex wasn't involved. So I'm not really sure what she thinks about it all. Maybe it was one sided on his part if there was no sex?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

that_girl said:


> You can get it from mutual masturbation...or if they touch themselves and then you.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you. Sucky thing is, they don't have a test for men that's accurate.


I have told him that. He swears they never touched each other in any way, but he won't swear that he wasn't in love with her. He said he can't explain his feelings he had, just that it was different than his love for me. UGH. Although he says he didn't have physical contact with her, I do have to recall he never fessed up to the french kissing with the club girl cause in his mind it wasn't cheating cause he stopped it before it turned into sex. :scratchhead:


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

There are so many maybe's. 

Having to speculate and forumulating a story around his explanations and what you want to believe which compete against your gut feelings & phantoms STD's is just cruel. Not being given the whole truth in this situation is mentally abusive.

I understand benefit of the doubt but you have a husband that has admitted to being unfaithful, both physically and emotionally twice and you have magically contracted a sexually transmitted disease.

Schedule the polygraph.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Has anyone had luck suggesting the lie detector test?
> 
> As for the OW, has anyone done anything like that thru email or Facebook? It seems like I would need to go to her personally to see the reaction? I'm also worried how this would reflect on my husband and his work.
> 
> My counselor asked me if I really wanted to know the truth. That if I got the answers I was looking for would that really help me any since it is the past and he has moved on and is back with us? I told her not knowing is killing me, but if I did get my answer I would probably never want to be with him again. She agreed it was a double edged sword. What is everyone's thoughts on this? Am I best not knowing? What's worse? Suspecting all my life or having sexual images confirmed in my head? I must admit I feel worse now than I did before now that I got confirmation on EA and now that he has confessed about the kiss he had with a stranger on a business trip. Sometimes I wonder if being clueless is best?


You have a right to all of the information that you need and want. If he is not willing to level with you, what basis do you have to trust him and rebuild the relationship with him? This issue will never really be resolved for you until you are told to whole truth about this, it will just keep resurfacing in times of stress and doubt. My H tried several ways of limiting the damage ( to him anyway) but nothing would settle the turmoil in our relationship until I had the truth. Dealing with the truth has been very hard, but living with lies is even harder. I don't want a relationship based on lies, and that is my right to choose, not his. It doesn't sound like you have a therapist who understands this issue. Obsession is absolutely a given when someone is gas lighting you. Getting the truth, sorting it out and deciding what you want to do about it, is the best way to move on. It is hard and it takes some time to get it all sorted out, but it's progress at least. Sweeping it under the carpet is not, it keeps you and the relationship in limbo. My H's lies and his efforts to cover his a**, were what did the greatest damage to our relationship. From beginning to end, it was the dishonesty. If your H wants to have a viable marriage, honesty is the price he must pay to have that.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

What's MC?

Has anyone had any luck with the poly?
Any guesses on price? I found one that looks reputable and nearby, but I have to call to get a quote. I might have to save up for it. 

If he tests clean on the poly does that finally mean we can move on and deal with what we got now? How reliable is it? Can he cheat the test?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Nevermind, MC is marriage counseling. How would I go about finding one that is within a tight budget? Any advice? He has said he would go to one.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Updated story. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38912-its-official-you-guys-were-right-im-bs.html


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