# Need Advice: Sex & Emotions



## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

First post here! I am looking for advice from guys that may have gone/are going through something similar to me. I am going to try and keep this as short as possible. 

I am only 25 years old and I've been married for two years. I feel it's important to mention this because it's a major part of how things have developed in our life. We both waited until marriage to have "real sex". All through college we fooled around, but knew we wanted to wait to do the real thing. On our wedding night we tried to have sex, but she said it hurt too much. On the honeymoon we tried a few more times and it got better but I could tell she was hurting and not enjoying it fully.

Fast forward two years and we are having sex maybe once a month. I would consider myself someone who really wants to be sexually active, especially while we're young. The painful sex issue has never gone away. She has seen a doctor, Ive read up to make sure I'm not doing something wrong... I try to initiate sex all the time but she says no. I know it bothers her so I try to just play it cool so she doesn't feel bad. I've talked to her about wanting to have sex more, and she acts like she is on board, but it never goes anywhere. When we do have sex I feel as if most of time she is just doing it to keep me happy, which really doesn't. I feel like we shouldn't be having this issue at our age, but I don't know how to talk about it without upsetting her... this is problem one...

Problem two... Over the past year my wife has been expressing that she has dark thoughts. I have walked in on her just randomly crying. I try to talk to her about it and ask whats wrong but she can't answer. We rarely fight and when we do its usually over very quick. This recent depression just has me really confused and feeling hopeless. I ask her if she wants to talk to someone else about it but she says "I know what they are going to say so it's useless". 

The reason I came on here tonight is because I came home to find my wife getting ready for bed at 6:00pm. I asked why and she said she just needs to sleep to deal with her thoughts. I made the mistake of trying to get her to talk about it and it progressed to her crying and saying things I really hope she didn't mean. Our conversation ended with me saying "I really wish we could find a way to make you happy again" to which she responded "There isn't a way and maybe you shouldn't be married to me". This really shocked me because we weren't fighting... it just came out of nowhere. These mini episodes have been happening a lot recently and I just don't know what to do anymore. 

As men (and women too, if they are on this section), what are the steps I can take for each of these issues. I hope it doesn't sound selfish to say this but I'm getting to a point where I feel like I'm being too nice. I'm not showing her real emotion because I don't want to make either situation worse...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Does your wife work or does she stay at home?
is there any sexual abuse in her past?
She sounds depressed, take her to a proper doctor for a diagnosis.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If sex is still painful for her, then that would explain her lack of interest, and possibly her depression. If that is the case, a sex therapist might be a big help. 

If sex is no longer uncomfortable but she still doesn't have much interest - does she get physical pleasure / Orgasm from your sexual activities? 

If not - then has she had an O in the past, and does she know what works for her? 

If she does, and still doesn't want sex, then again a therapist might make sense.



Do you think her depression could be the result of the issues in your sex life, or possibly the reverse, or maybe it isn't clear?


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

aine said:


> Does your wife work or does she stay at home?
> is there any sexual abuse in her past?
> She sounds depressed, take her to a proper doctor for a diagnosis.


We own a business together, and it is doing well (has actually been one of the only positive things recently)
No sexual abuse. She has parents that went through a nasty divorce and multiple people in her family struggle with depression. Only one that I know of actually did something about it. 
Best advice on getting her to try talking to a doc if she has refused thus far?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

If sex didn't make you feel good would you want it? If you didn't feel good about yourself would you revel in contact with your mate? 

Look, It really seems like she's depressed. IMO, She needs help. Not the kind you can provide. An MD or therapist. The best thing you can do is get her there. How about her family, could they help you?


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

uhtred said:


> If sex is still painful for her, then that would explain her lack of interest, and possibly her depression. If that is the case, a sex therapist might be a big help.
> 
> If sex is no longer uncomfortable but she still doesn't have much interest - does she get physical pleasure / Orgasm from your sexual activities?
> 
> ...


She is only able to orgasm by basically grinding on me with no penetration. She doesn't seem open to trying new things, which I have suggested. I try to make it all about her so its more fun/enjoyable but that doesn't seem to help. 

I don't know if the lack of sex life has caused it because we are able to talk about it fairly openly. I have asked if that is what causes the thoughts and she says absolutely not. She says she wakes up with thoughts of "worst case scenarios" coming true, nightmares, ect. They seem separate but I could be wrong or she could be hiding the truth.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

anchorwatch said:


> If sex didn't make you feel good would you want it? If you didn't feel good about yourself would you revel in contact with your mate?
> 
> Look, It really seems like she's depressed. IMO, She needs help. Not the kind you can provide. An MD or therapist. The best thing you can do is get her there. How about her family, could they help you?


No, I totally agree, and I very understanding about the painful sex thats why I don't push the issue. I just don't want to totally ignore the fact.

I guess I have to get serious about getting her to see someone who can help. Her family situation isn't the best and I think they would hinder the process. Just not easy getting her to admit it at this point...


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> What did the doctor say?


She was put on a medication to help with vaginal lubrication but it did not seem to help.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Don't get her preggers! This marriage is doomed. You're not getting satisfied and you have a broken wife that doesn't want to get help. 

Does she at least give you out of this world oral sex?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Have you tried non-penetrative sex? Giving her oral etc. 

Not saying its the long term solution, but are there mutually enjoyable things you can do without penetration. 

There are many things that could be going on. One of them is that penetration is painful for her, and the anticipation of that pain makes it worse, and the problem perpetuates. 


It could also be a side effect of depression.

Is she on any medication including birth control?

Was she like this (both sexually and for depression) before you were married?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Sex is the first thing to go when depressed. Here... 

Depression: How to Help When Friends or Family are Depressed - Wing of Madness Depression GuideWing of Madness Depression Guide

Whatever you do don't shame or bully her into it. It's best to show concern. Read the article and links, you'll get the idea. Call her MD for advice too.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Have you tried non-penetrative sex? Giving her oral etc.
> 
> Not saying its the long term solution, but are there mutually enjoyable things you can do without penetration.
> 
> ...


No, we actually had way more fun with each other before we got married. We basically did all of the above, minus penetration. (I tell everyone I know now, HAVE SEX before marriage if you haven't, stupid to wait). She has always been a little moody, but never "dark" like she is now. 

She is on a birth control, yes.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I was wondering, is her hymen still intact? Was that checked or verified by exam? Some women have much thicker hymens than other women. And some women have a very small opening in their hymens.
> 
> 
> There are devices known as dilators. A graduated set of inserts, that can help a woman gradually get used to being penetrated. They would have to used in conjunction with a good lubricant. Especially since her medicine for lubrication isn't working.
> ...


I don't actually know the answer about the hymen... But thank you for the input. 
She has never expressed anything to make me think she is suicidal, it's something I've thought about but never something she has verbally or non verbally suggested. Its just like she gets herself worried about things she shouldn't be worried about, thinks about worst case scenarios , things like that.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

anchorwatch said:


> Sex is the first thing to go when depressed. Here...
> 
> Depression: How to Help When Friends or Family are Depressed - Wing of Madness Depression GuideWing of Madness Depression Guide
> 
> Whatever you do don't shame or bully her into it. It's best to show concern. Read the article and links, you'll get the idea. Call her MD for advice too.


Thank you for these links, greatly appreciated.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You're welcome. 

Remember it's not your fault. It's not personal. 

Take care of yourself too. 


Best


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

My take is she is having some mental issues (anxiety probably making her depressed as well). I would hold off on the sex (sorry) until that is under control. SHe is probably feeling very low self esteem and that is why she is say maybe you shouldn't be together. She is embarrassed that she is not 100% the wife she wants to be for you, but it may not be in her control. Perhaps you could tell her that you are worried that she is needing to go to bed at 6 to get her thoughts straight and that in general she doesn't seem happy. Make it clear that it is very important to you that she go and get help for herself because you need her and love her and that you will support her through whatever it is that she is going through. I think on top of her anxiety/depression, the thought of losing you bc of it is crippling her and possibly stopping her from getting help.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mac48 said:


> She was put on a medication to help with vaginal lubrication but it did not seem to help.




So what is the doctor doing next? 

Where is the pain? On entry?

Are you "big" meaning wide or long?


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

Fitnessfan said:


> My take is she is having some mental issues (anxiety probably making her depressed as well). I would hold off on the sex (sorry) until that is under control. SHe is probably feeling very low self esteem and that is why she is say maybe you shouldn't be together. She is embarrassed that she is not 100% the wife she wants to be for you, but it may not be in her control. Perhaps you could tell her that you are worried that she is needing to go to bed at 6 to get her thoughts straight and that in general she doesn't seem happy. Make it clear that it is very important to you that she go and get help for herself because you need her and love her and that you will support her through whatever it is that she is going through. I think on top of her anxiety/depression, the thought of losing you bc of it is crippling her and possibly stopping her from getting help.


Thank you for this insight, gives me a whole new way of looking at all of this.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> So what is the doctor doing next?
> 
> Where is the pain? On entry?
> 
> Are you "big" meaning wide or long?


She won't go back unfortunately... The pain seems to be right after entry in most cases. I am above average in length but normal in width. I've tried "not going in all the way" but it doesn't really help.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Upsetting her should be the least of your worries. This sexlessness is not sustainable and the sooner you make it crystal clear that it's a deal breaker the sooner she'll **** or get off the pot. Seriously. Not sustainable. And you're not doing her any favors making her think it's ok...eventually you'll blind side her and that'll be even worse. All because you're afraid to hurt her feelings. 

And for God sake don't get her pregnant. Marrying a virgin over 20. Never a good idea. She was a virgin because she didn't want sex. That doesn't change.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Since you were not having intercourse earlier, I assume she was not on birth control. BC can cause all sorts of mood changes in some women

Something to consider: Stop the BC. Go back to the sex life you had before that you both enjoyed. 

If that works, then consider different birth control, condoms etc. 




Mac48 said:


> No, we actually had way more fun with each other before we got married. We basically did all of the above, minus penetration. (I tell everyone I know now, HAVE SEX before marriage if you haven't, stupid to wait). She has always been a little moody, but never "dark" like she is now.
> 
> She is on a birth control, yes.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Forget about the sex for the moment and help her get to the root of her depression.  Ask her to tell you about her nightmares, "worst case scenarios", etc. Ask her if she worries that you'd leave? You have to find a way to communicate with her and get her to confide in you, to trust you enough to open up. Do you have meaningful conversations or is it just work, go home, and sleep? Do you go out on dates? Cuddle?


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Upsetting her should be the least of your worries. This sexlessness is not sustainable and the sooner you make it crystal clear that it's a deal breaker the sooner she'll **** or get off the pot. Seriously. Not sustainable. And you're not doing her any favors making her think it's ok...eventually you'll blind side her and that'll be even worse. All because you're afraid to hurt her feelings.
> 
> And for God sake don't get her pregnant. Marrying a virgin over 20. Never a good idea. She was a virgin because she didn't want sex. That doesn't change.


His wife is possibly going through anxiety and/or depression. I don't think this hard stance at this time is the right way to proceed. Have some compassion. He can try to help his wife get better first and then they can work on the sex issues. It would be nearly impossible to have any success on this until she is well and he should focus on supporting her to get help. You are making a huge assumption saying she was a virgin because she didn't want sex. He was also a virgin. She is having pain with sex and therefore not wanting or enjoying it. I'm sure that is causing her low self esteem and anxiety as well. I have to imagine it must be devastating to wait so long to have sex and find out it is not what you expected and not be able to be the wife you want to be for your husband. I hope they can work through this but making it crystal clear that this is a deal breaker is just cruel at this stage.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It's all connected to her inability to enjoy sex.

Assuming she was raised in an environment that shamed premarital sexuality, this caused her to think marriage would magically make sex fantastic. What she has is called vaginismus and it is treatable. She has muscle spasm in and around her vagina, triggered by penetration. If she can insert a tampon comfortably, she can use a special set of vaginal dilators to slowly teach those muscles to relax. However, her shame about not being sexually active combined with her shame about sexuality in general cause her to totally avoid following through. 

-She got married and sex didn't work, she felt ashamed and broken.
-She went to a doctor and had to describe the problem, she felt ashamed and broken
-She was advised to use a set of vaginal dilators and reminded to use lubrication both during sex and during physical therapy for her pelvic musculature dysfunction. This overwhelmed her and so she avoided following through. She felt ashamed and broken, but now she felt hopeless.
-Enter the depression.

Depression can be brought on by life events and I think your wife's depression may be heavily influenced by her disappointment in herself for not being normal, sexually. I think the birth control, assuming that it is an hormonal oral contraceptive, also plays a role in her depression.

Your wife needs a therapist who can also help her deal with her sexual dysfunction.

Right now she is resistant to go for any help because she is ashamed and feels it is hopeless. You are her husband and you have more power than you know. You're going to have to make a bunch of calls and find a therapist, and make an appointment. Go together with your wife. Let her see this is a problem you won't abandon her for. Let her see you are on her team and even though right now she doesn't think anything will help, your confidence that this will help, will help her ease into therapy.

Sexual dysfunction involving pelvic muscle spasms are more common that most young women know. They can be cured. Yes cured. But the hard part is actually taking off her clothing, lubing up a dilator, and inserting it into her vagina every day. This is an overwhelming task for someone who thinks she is broken and can't be fixed, and is also depressed. You're going to have to take the lead and gently ease her into being more confident and hopeful.

*Coconut oil!* Buy a big jar today!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I heartily second everything that @Anon Pink says in her post, and agree with everything she says. Be as supportive and loving and optimistic as you can be, as the two of you work through this together. She needs you right now, and she needs to know that you won't leave her. That will help her tremendously, I think.


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## Mac48 (Nov 16, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> It's all connected to her inability to enjoy sex.
> 
> Assuming she was raised in an environment that shamed premarital sexuality, this caused her to think marriage would magically make sex fantastic. What she has is called vaginismus and it is treatable. She has muscle spasm in and around her vagina, triggered by penetration. If she can insert a tampon comfortably, she can use a special set of vaginal dilators to slowly teach those muscles to relax. However, her shame about not being sexually active combined with her shame about sexuality in general cause her to totally avoid following through.
> 
> ...


Thank you SO much for this post Anon Pink, I really appreciate the insight.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Not to sound heartless (but I will):

"There isn't a way and maybe you shouldn't be married to me"

"Best advice on getting her to try talking to a doc if she has refused thus far?"

My advice is saying "yeah, I shouldn't be married to you." Refusing to address this (the psychological problems, not the physical one) is on her and there will be nothing you can do unless you put your foot down. Does it sound cruel? Yes. But she isn't going to get better without professional help and you will be back here in another year wondering what to do.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@Mac48

I don't know if you're still logging in to TAM but if you are I forgot to mention the most important thing in treating vaginismus. Education! It is vital that she understand that what is happening to her is not because she is frigid. She needs to believe that what she has, vaginismus, is an involuntary condition that absolutely can be successfully treated.

There are web sites that explain vaginismus and there are products you can buy, lubricants and dilator, there are even "programs" you can buy that offer books, dvds, and a set of dilators. While there are all great, she needs to see a physical therapist who specializes in Women's Pelvic Floor Dysfunction. 

I had a pelvic floor dysfunction that caused such pain It left me bedridden for the whole day. I had to lay in bed on my left side to ease the pain. It was misdiagnosed by my Primary Care doc, who sent my to a gastroenterologist, who sent me to a urologist until someone told me I should try this GYN who speciliazed in pelvic floor problems. She put me on estrogen cream, which didn't help at all. Then someone else, a PT student, said I should see a PT specialist. I found one, waited two months for an opening and went.

My first appointment she took my history, which took a while to get through since I'm in my 50's.  Then I took off my clothes and she pressed around my vulva area asking me to contract various muscles. Then she inserted her finger in my vagina and pressed up, pressed down, pressed to the right and then the left. She isolated the specific muscle groups that were spasming. It was slightly painful during the exam and afterwards I was back in bed on my left side because the pain built. She gave me a very slender wand and taught me how to insert it, where to push it and what I should do while it was inside. I was to do this every day except if I was in pain, however I was to expect a little pain while pressing on the internal muscles. It took a week before I noticed improvement. But once I noticed improvement, the improvement progressed and within 2 months I no longer had pain regularly.

I have to admit, that had I developed this condition in my younger days I would have completely ignored it. I would never have sought treatment because I also had a strong case of sexual inhibition and there was no way I would have ever discussed my lack of sexual response with any doctor, or person.

So for a young woman who was raised to avoid sexual contact until married, that inhibition doesn't just go away once married. To avoid sexual contact a woman has to shut down her sexual responses. She has to teach herself that sexual arousal means she is in danger of unwanted sexual contact. Unwanted because she has been taught to protect her virginity until marriage. This doesn't happen to men, or doesn't generally cause them to be unable to have an erection. When a man is aroused his penis reacts on its own. Testosterone is a very strong hormone that over rides inhibition. Women don't have testosterone, not at the levels men do, so our sexual arousal is very closely linked to our emotional state. Anxiety and depression are an emotional state that enable us to inhibit our sexual responses. A wedding ring does not over ride inhibition.

Your wife has to understand all that I just wrote. She has to understand that her inability to have penetrative sex is INVOLUNTARY. She has to believe that she can be cured of this pain. She has to not feel ashamed. She has to not feel broken, not feel frigid. She has to WANT to be cured.

I suggest you both, together, read the info found here because I found it to be very reassuring and informative: https://www.vaginismus.com/. However, would urge your wife not to use the treatment plan offered for sale until she has actually had an appointment with a physical therapist or specializes in women's pelvic floor dysfunction. Depending on your insurance, it may be most cost effective to purchase this treatment plan. But the PT specialist is best because the PT can guide your wife through the entire process. I had 4 weekly appointments then had 2 follow up appointments 2 weeks apart. Each appointment cost $40 co-pay. This treatment at the website above, which is a good one, costs $90. Going to a PT is best and having a sexually healthy wife is priceless.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Mac48 said:


> She won't go back unfortunately... The pain seems to be right after entry in most cases. I am above average in length but normal in width. I've tried "not going in all the way" but it doesn't really help.


This is non-negotiable. If she wants her marriage to work, she MUST go back. Period.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Mac48 said:


> Our conversation ended with me saying "I really wish we could find a way to make you happy again" to which she responded "There isn't a way and maybe you shouldn't be married to me". This really shocked me because we weren't fighting... it just came out of nowhere. These mini episodes have been happening a lot recently and I just don't know what to do anymore.


If you understood "womanese" you'd know what she meant. Hint, its one of two things. First, she tired of you riding her azz about it and is telling you if you can't accept she has a problem with you inserting yourself into her, hit the trail, or two, she's flat out doesn't want to be married and is keeping you cut off hoping you'll just hit the trail. My guess is she'd desires to be single, or at least not married to you, and her depression is situational. Once free, her depression will subside.
Take my word for it my man, if it don't come easy, you need to let it go. (lest you're in for a miserable life always giving and on a starvation diet of affection. A few years out, some chick will put something on you Ajax won't take off and you'll become a man you never wanted to be. Don't say it won't happen cuz it will. You'll be saying to yourself, "if she really had a problem, why can't it be diagnosed"


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

Guy in Colorado, WorkingOnMe, VladTheImpaler! have all hit the nail on the head. If you have a young wife that is already that averse to intimacy, 99.9% chance it's not going to get better. You can hang on and be the guy who one day warns others about the '20 years you spent in a $exless marriage', or you can start exploring YOUR options. Life is short brother, and our partners have to be willing to ride shotgun with us. Sounds like you have one that doesn't even want to get in the car with you.

I still feel you have an obligation to help her best you can through her issues, but my point is that eventually you are going to have a decision to make if things don't change. Just preparing you to the fact that is a real possibility.


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