# Lightbulb moment and questions about self esteem



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

As you are all painfully aware, I have been hugely torn over my marriage for the past several months. Every day, instead of feeling more confident and having a direction, I seem to have spiraled downward into depression and major indecisiveness. The problem is: I want a divorce. I know I do. BUT...I can't stop second guessing myself as far as is it the RIGHT thing to do. I worry about how it will affect our son, my H, my family, money, everything else but worrying about ME! When it comes down to it, I have a hard time with validating my own feelings. 

Today, thinking about a lot of issues in my life, particularly my marriage, I felt so stuck, so torn, so hopeless that I will ever be happy. Then I remembered something my therapist said about me having self-esteem issues. It has been said here on TAM also. At first, I didn't think I had self esteem issues...I am not ashamed of my body, my looks are better than average (I'm no model but I'm not ugly or even plain looking), I know that I'm intelligent, I am confident talking to complete strangers...so WTF am I lacking in self esteem? Well, it hit me: I allow people's behavior towards me to dictate how I feel. If my H is angry or sad, I instantly assume I'm to blame. If my boss is a b***h one day but the next day is very sweet, my emotions towards her change accordingly. If someone is rude or thoughtless or disrespectful towards me, I absorb it and wonder what I did to make them treat me like that. It's a more subtle form of low self esteem, but crippling nonetheless. 

I feel empowered with this understanding. I know it's been hammered on so many times on TAM: you can't change other people's behavior, you can only change your reaction to their behavior. I understood it, but couldn't really embrace it until now. I get it. What it means to me is: it's ok for me to have feelings, wants, needs, ambition, etc REGARDLESS of whether my H agrees with them. It's ok to disappoint people by not always living up to their expectations of you. I need to live up to MY expectations of me first. And I haven't done a good job of that. I want to change that starting now. 

One thing my therapist pointed out is that my H and I are completely enmeshed...H likes it this way, but I don't. He relies on me for everything emotionally: for validation, for happiness, for fun, for companionship, everything. He has no close friends that he spends time with outside of work. He doesn't spend time with his brothers except for holiday occasions. He wants to spend every waking minute with me. It's exhausting and it makes me want to pull away. 

My question is: I'd like to try to find something to do on my own, maybe once a week or so...something he can't invite himself to go along with (which he invariably does, even if it's just me running to the store to get tampons!). He views any time we are not working as valuable family time. If I were to choose to do something in the evening after work one day a week, he'd be incensed. I could maybe get away with doing something on a weekend day, although he'd be upset that I would be choosing to spend potential 'family time' alone. If I choose to spend time away from him and our son once a week for a couple of hours, am I really being that selfish? I don't think so, but I'd like your input in this, to help me build confidence in doing things for myself that make ME happy even if they don't make HIM happy. It's all leading up to the ultimate act of making ME happy resulting in his being VERY unhappy (divorce). I have to start somewhere in building my confidence. 

Any thoughts? I hope this makes sense


----------



## ramsesgirl (Aug 2, 2012)

Maybe a book club or some yoga?  I would love to do those things, if I wasn't so focused on my studies. I do go for runs several times a week.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Find a belly dancing class to take. It's fantastic exercise, great fun, and he can't go with you since it's a women's class.

It's also wonderful for raising self-esteem. I wouldn't have expected it, but those classes really made me feel good about myself.

If not belly dancing, try yoga classes. It has the same effect on your mind and body.


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I like the dance idea. I also just remembered something I've said for years that I'd like to do: take piano lessons. I'm very musical. I played clarinet through middle school and high school and was very good at it. I took voice lessons about 8 years ago and LOVED it. Piano is the one thing musically I've always wished I was better at. So I think that's what I'm going to do to start with. Music is very soothing for me and learning piano will undoubtedly be a comfort to me throughout this difficult time in my life.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You don't need anyone's permission to make your life a good one, WUTL, except your own.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Bravo waking Up!

I wonder if this new you could simply sign up for whatever you want, whether or not your H might wish to join. This new you doesn't have to look under carpets to find a secret place. This new you simply shuts the door and say, no, but thanks anyway.


----------



## frank29 (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi I dont know where in the world you but here in the UK a few of my female friends go to some thing called Zumba it is as i see it a good form of exercise and according to them great fun and enjoy it very much and look forward to it very much a couple go twice a week but there is loads of things to do if put your mind to it 

Frank


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> I played clarinet through middle school and high school and was very good at it. .... Piano is the one thing musically I've always wished I was better at.


Waking, I once took lessons in both. The wonderful thing about a piano is that you don't have to spend 15 minutes assembling it and wetting the reed. You can just sit down and start playing immediately.


> If I were to choose to do something in the evening after work one day a week, he'd be incensed.


Yes, but that is HIS problem. Moreover, it presents him with an excellent opportunity to learn how to do self soothing, a skill the rest of us learned in early childhood. As long as you continue being a soothing object instead of a wife, you will continue to harm him by denying him those opportunities to learn. 

In contrast, when you leave him to deal with his own anger, you are being supportive (not enabling) by sending a clear signal you are confident he is able to handle it, if he will choose to do so. That's the same type of support that parents give their children when the kids are throwing temper tantrums.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I just wanted to gently remind you that your husband doesn't like being enmeshed with you either. He's just as miserable in this marriage as you are it just manifests differently for him than it does for you.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Have you read "Co-Dependent No More" yet?

It may give you some ideas & also should you decide to divorce, you will need those outside activities to fill up your time. 

Remember good self-esteem comes from accomplishments, not how pretty we are. Once you start with a yoga class or something similar you will feel that you have accomplished something & your self-esteem will start to come back.


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I just wanted to gently remind you that your husband doesn't like being enmeshed with you either. He's just as miserable in this marriage as you are it just manifests differently for him than it does for you.


Thank you. It's easy to forget that because he's the one forcing the enmeshment. He insists on it. It gives him a sense of security and sense of self, I guess. He absolutely denies that he's unhappy with our marriage. I flat out asked him a few weeks ago, "if you could wave a magic wand and change anything to have a perfect marriage, what would you change?" He said doesn't know how to answer that because all he ever wanted was to get married, have kids, and grow old with someone he loved. There's nothing to change because that's what he's getting, and he's happy with that. He cannot understand what I see that there is to be unhappy about, because he says he "chooses" to be happy with our marriage, whereas I am choosing to seek out reasons to not be happy.


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Have you read "Co-Dependent No More" yet?
> 
> It may give you some ideas & also should you decide to divorce, you will need those outside activities to fill up your time.
> 
> Remember good self-esteem comes from accomplishments, not how pretty we are. Once you start with a yoga class or something similar you will feel that you have accomplished something & your self-esteem will start to come back.


Yes, I have read it, and it was amazingly accurate in describing my thoughts and behaviors as a codependent. I need to read it again, because I read it kind of quickly and in segments. I will start it again today. 

I have a strange self esteem thing, sort of. I am proud of my accomplishments with my education, my career, with my musical abilities, etc. Really the only area I am lacking in self esteem is with my H (and to a lesser extent other close relationships). I let other peoples' emotions dictate mine. Definitely a codependent behavior I need to work on.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Happy people don't gain 120 pounds. Happy people don't cling to others. Happy people don't treat others the way he treats you. If anything I think he's passive aggressive. Subconsciously he does things just to piss you off.


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

He definitely has PA tendencies and he projects a lot. Another light bulb moment for me just now...it's his projecting over the years that has eroded my self esteem. I don't always realize he's projecting, so when he does it makes me start to question myself...am I really this way? Do I really feel this way? Maybe I'm the difficult person in our marriage? What's wrong with me that I can't see things the way he does? It's crazymaking when you live with that for so long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Yes, but that is HIS problem. Moreover, it presents him with an excellent opportunity to learn how to do self soothing, a skill the rest of us learned in early childhood. As long as you continue being a soothing object instead of a wife, you will continue to harm him by denying him those opportunities to learn.
> 
> In contrast, when you leave him to deal with his own anger, you are being supportive (not enabling) by sending a clear signal you are confident he is able to handle it, if he will choose to do so. That's the same type of support that parents give their children when the kids are throwing temper tantrums.


The thing is, he won't learn from it. He only sees that as me being selfish, not coming home to have dinner with him and our son, not spending those hours at home with the family, not supporting him in taking his online courses (it really wouldn't affect that, but he'd use it as an excuse to say I wasn't supporting him anyway). He would be disappointed in me for not having my priorities straight, and that he shouldn't even have to explain to me why that's the reality of it. 

All of which is his problem, I know...I just have to have the self confidence that it IS ok for me to do it and I'm NOT being a bad mom or wife by doing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

I tend to disagree with a lot of what has been said here in terms of advice. I think the codependency movement is ruining marriages. Once you are married you are no longer independent, you are interdependent. You need to negotiate a solution to any issues based on what you both want. Have you read His Needs, Her Needs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> All of which is his problem, I know...I just have to have the self confidence that it IS ok for me to do it and I'm NOT being a bad mom or wife by doing that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course you're not being a bad wife or mom by taking some time to do something by yourself.

Frankly, this dynamic you have going on is exactly what your son will learn about marriage. He will believe families must be glued at the hip with no interests of their own, and who are incapable of doing anything on their own. Is that the lesson you want him to learn?


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

SolidSnake said:


> I tend to disagree with a lot of what has been said here in terms of advice. I think the codependency movement is ruining marriages. Once you are married you are no longer independent, you are interdependent. You need to negotiate a solution to any issues based on what you both want. Have you read His Needs, Her Needs?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you are describing is what is expected in relatively normal marriages, where neither partner has an addiction issue or mental illness. Codependency occurs when one (or both) partners suffer from addiction or mental illness, where the non-affected spouse forgoes his/her needs and enables the spouse's illness. Codependents have very few and ill-defined boundaries, and become enmeshed with the spouse to the point where they cannot see themselves as a separate entity in the marriage. They don't exist apart from meeting their spouse's needs. That's not healthy interdependence as you describe. 

_"You need to negotiate a solution to any issues based on what you both want."_

I couldn't agree with you more...and if I had a husband who was willing to "negotiate" to find solutions to our marital issues, I wouldn't be posting on TAM.


----------



## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

You need to just find something you would like to do and do it.
Work on not taking everything your husbands says to 
heart.If you take some personal time and just do it,even if it
is as simple as a daily walk,what is he gonna do.

Be strong and don't cave.If you do this and he sees you happier
he will get it and I doubt he will divorce you over it.

A little free time for married couples is good and healthy.Males like me do 
reno jobs around the house and outside and its a time we don't
want a wife bugging us.

Speak up enough times to your husband
and he will get it.Make it clear to your husband that you need
alone time and he need not worry.


----------



## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

..and if I had a husband who was willing to "negotiate" to find solutions to our marital issues, I wouldn't be posting on TAM.[/QUOTE]

We are sisters!
You've hit the nail on the head.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I have said this before of your husband, his insistence on all this "family time" isnt really about family time, it is about you being the crutch upon which his entire world rests. I think its an excellent idea for you to get out one or two nights a week to do something just for you! Yoga would be great, I cannot imagine him wanting to tag along for that. You are just going to have to let his little tantrums that follow roll off your back. As Uptown mentioned, this can be an opportunity for him to learn a little self reliance as well.


----------



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> He needs to become "interdependent" and lose the codependency. "Codependency No More" will help and if he combines it with counseling, he will become a "better" husband and a "better" man.  You will be more attracted to him and respect will come back.


I have read that book and it is quite helpful. I guess my problem with your suggestion, while completely valid, is that my H doesn't see the need to be a "better" husband or man. He doesn't see our marriage as "codependent" in an unhealthy way. His vision of marriage is that a husband and wife should do everything together, share the same hobbies, same interests, spend as much time together as possible. If either partner chooses to do things independently, especially on a regular basis, they are not acting as a married person. I wanted to run in a high-endurance obstacle course race this spring. He got really mad and said "I can't do that with you! Either be married to me or don't! But if you're married to me, you don't need to be going out and rolling around in the mud with a bunch of guys." I don't know where he got that from, but he totally deflated my balloon and I didn't sign up for it. 

Last fall I went to a conference for work out of state for 3 days. First time I had done that for about 4 years. He REALLY didn't like that I agreed to spend my personal time away from my family for work purposes. He tried to guilt me for days after I got back about how much of a "burden" it was on him and our son (it really wasn't that big of a deal...our son is 15, so he's pretty low maintenance). 

He also refuses counseling because he thinks it's pointless...he wants a therapist to act more as a judge and tell him who's right and who's wrong about any given situation. Then the "wrong" person should make changes in his/her behavior accordingly. He thinks talking about "feelings" is a bunch of psychobabble.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> I have read that book and it is quite helpful. I guess my problem with your suggestion, while completely valid, is that my H doesn't see the need to be a "better" husband or man. He doesn't see our marriage as "codependent" in an unhealthy way. His vision of marriage is that a husband and wife should do everything together, share the same hobbies, same interests, spend as much time together as possible. If either partner chooses to do things independently, especially on a regular basis, they are not acting as a married person. I wanted to run in a high-endurance obstacle course race this spring. He got really mad and said "I can't do that with you! Either be married to me or don't! But if you're married to me, you don't need to be going out and rolling around in the mud with a bunch of guys." I don't know where he got that from, but he totally deflated my balloon and I didn't sign up for it.
> 
> Last fall I went to a conference for work out of state for 3 days. First time I had done that for about 4 years. He REALLY didn't like that I agreed to spend my personal time away from my family for work purposes. He tried to guilt me for days after I got back about how much of a "burden" it was on him and our son (it really wasn't that big of a deal...our son is 15, so he's pretty low maintenance).
> 
> He also refuses counseling because he thinks it's pointless...he wants a therapist to act more as a judge and tell him who's right and who's wrong about any given situation. Then the "wrong" person should make changes in his/her behavior accordingly. He thinks talking about "feelings" is a bunch of psychobabble.


The judge is alive and well in your home. Or at least, in your husband's head. He doesn't want to be judged, that's obvious. 
Yet he feels the right to be the judge. Funny how the behaviors you hate are the ones you exhibit.

Some people are black and white. If he wants to judge everyone else around him, that's his call. But if it was me... I would find a way to gently remind him that no person has any control over you. You are free. 

How do you do that?
Well, with a right and wrong person... you use facts.
The fact is... it's his opinion and feelings. He's entitled to those. And you are entitled to disagree. Because you have your own opinions. That's okay. It's not right or wrong. It's just HIS. and it's just YOURS. 

But they don't exist, unless you voice them. Otherwise, they are just angry resentments. 

Be nice about it. Understanding. Accept that he feels differently. But that is one way to show someone who is all about right and wrong and doesn't like feelings... that what he is talking about IS all feelings and emotions. Opinions are not facts. Everybody's got one.


----------

