# Jared From Subway Going To Jail



## EllisRedding

What a sick **** ...



> Jared Fogle was just charged with "travel to engage in elicit sexual conduct with minors."
> Up to now, the only information in the case was that he allegedly possessed child porn, but the case is far more serious. According to the complaint, between 2010 and 2013, Fogle traveled between Indiana and NYC to engage in sexual acts with minors. The complaint says Fogle paid for sex.
> The complaint says in text messages with one of the 14 minor victims, Fogle said he would accept a 16-year-old girl while stating that "the younger the girl, the better."
> The complaint says he asked some of the victims to send him pictures of themselves.
> The complaint says the child porn authorities found photos and videos of boys and girls. It's unclear the gender of those with whom he had sex.
> Part of the case involves images Fogle received from Russell Taylor, the head of Fogle's foundation. According to the complaint, Taylor sent Fogle photos and videos from hidden cameras in Taylor's house, featuring children as young as approximately 6.
> Under the plea deal, Fogle agreed to serve at least 5 years in prison and must pay restitution of $1.4 million -- $100,000 per victim. And he must register as a sex offender.
> Part of Fogle's punishment ... he can't possess obscene materials, he must participate in a sexual disorders program, can't have unsupervised meetings with minors, and his computers will be subject to random checks.
> Fogle turned himself into the FBI today and he's currently being processed.



Jared Fogle -- Charged with Soliciting Sex With Minors | TMZ.com


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## Forest

Wonder if he'll gain a bunch of weight there?


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## EnigmaGirl

Ugh...I was going to say something really inappropriate about him having an all new strict diet of only meatball subs and couldn't finish.

I'm gonna go wash my mouth out with soap.


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## EllisRedding

I guess the early warning signs were there...


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## GusPolinski

Cue the "five dollar foot long" jokes...


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## arbitrator

*Well, one thing is for certain ~ he'll have a simply unlimited supply of "foot longs," as well as 6-inchers to choose from in the "state or federal" hotel that he'll soon be assigned to! 










Trust me! The memes are on their way!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

Forest said:


> Wonder if he'll gain a bunch of weight there?


*Only if he gets pregnant!

Did he get busted by NBC's Chris Hansen on  To Catch A Predator?*


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## lifeistooshort

Read that his wife wants out of the marriage, she'd be smart to get some money while he still has some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

I think all the victims should get the money and he should have to serve as a prostitute for Serbian criminals with all proceeds going to fight child rape.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ikaika

Ugh, why are there people like this... I know they have always existed, I guess I just wish pedophiles did not most of all.


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## Cletus

Ikaika said:


> Ugh, why are there people like this... I know they have always existed, I guess I just wish pedophiles did not most of all.


You'll never meet a pedophile who doesn't desperately wish that he (and it's almost exclusively he) were different. I have great anguish over both their crimes and the horrible life they have to lead to control their urges. 

I would seriously consider physical or chemical castration if I were so afflicted.


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## arbitrator

*I really think that the fairer question is that if Jared Fogle is man enough to actually cop a plea in criminal court and take the mandatory prison sentence of anywhere between 5 and 12 years for what it is that he has done, then why can't Bill Cosby "man up" and do the very same?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

Quizno's | "Toasty Torpedo" 


Could be worse


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## EllisRedding

arbitrator said:


> *I really think that the fairer question is that if Jared Fogle is man enough to cop a plea in criminal court and take a mandatory prison sentence of anywhere between 5 and 12 years for what it is that he has done, then why can't Bill Cosby "man up" and do the very same?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Probably because the evidence on Jared is overwhelming (computer harddrive, text messages, the other guy who got arrested, etc...).

Speaking of Cosby ...


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## arbitrator

EllisRedding said:


> Probably because the evidence on Jared is overwhelming (computer harddrive, text messages, the other guy who got arrested, etc...).
> 
> Speaking of Cosby ...


*Regarding the "Pudding Pop Man": Can 30 something "eyewitnesses," one of which who has DNA evidence ready to turn on him with, be wrong?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding

arbitrator said:


> *Regarding the "Pudding Pop Man": Can 30 something "eyewitnesses," one of which who has DNA evidence ready to turn on him with, be wrong?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dont believe they are wrong, just much different evidence vs. what Jared has against him.


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## BradWesley

lifeistooshort said:


> Read that his wife wants out of the marriage, she'd be smart to get some money while he still has some.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His net worth is estimated at $15 million, and yes she did separate and file.

I hope she cleans the bastard out


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## Runs like Dog

It was fascinating to see what the huge differences between Indiana state law and Federal law are.


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## lucy999

Too soon?


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## EllisRedding




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## arbitrator




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## EllisRedding

Interesting marketing spin by Quiznos ...


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## Healer

Cletus said:


> You'll never meet a pedophile who doesn't desperately wish that he (and it's almost exclusively he) were different. I have great anguish over both their crimes and the horrible life they have to lead to control their urges.
> 
> I would seriously consider physical or chemical castration if I were so afflicted.


I don't buy at all that it's an "affliction". I'm heterosexual and attracted to adult women - yet I'm perfectly capable of controlling my "urges". Me being attracted to adult women isn't an "affliction", and I don't feel I have to walk around controlling my urges to rape women, or do something illegal to said women.


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## Healer

EllisRedding said:


> Interesting marketing spin by Quiznos ...


Oh man.


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## Healer

arbitrator said:


>


That second one is pretty funny. Terrible, but funny.


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## Cletus

Healer said:


> I don't buy at all that it's an "affliction". I'm heterosexual and attracted to adult women - yet I'm perfectly capable of controlling my "urges". Me being attracted to adult women isn't an "affliction", and I don't feel I have to walk around controlling my urges to rape women, or do something illegal to said women.


So then you chose to be sexually attracted to women? 

To whom you are sexually attracted and what you do about it are two separate issues. No one picks the first, and everyone picks the second.


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## antechomai

Jared is a mess, but the series of jokes about prison rape are not funny. To promote crimes against any man or woman in prison isn't what this site is about, or I thought is was.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
what were the ages of his victims, I haven't seen it anywhere? Were they consenting, or were they too young for that to be meaningful (say under 14). 

I think that there is a range of seriousness of crimes from having sex wtih an underage but willing person (~15 or older) and having sex with a child. Then of course rape is a felony even with an adult, and worse with a child.

Our society picks an arbitrary cutoff of 18, but in fact people can be sexually attractive, and attracted at a considerably younger age. Kinsey institute says 25% of boys and girls have had sex by age 15. 

I'm not saying that it is OK for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old, but I think we need much more of a sliding scale on the severity of the crime vs age and willingness of the victim. 



Now if he forced girls, or if they were under ~15 then I'm happy to see him burn.


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## EllisRedding

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> what were the ages of his victims, I haven't seen it anywhere? Were they consenting, or were they too young for that to be meaningful (say under 14).
> 
> I think that there is a range of seriousness of crimes from having sex wtih an underage but willing person (~15 or older) and having sex with a child. Then of course rape is a felony even with an adult, and worse with a child.
> 
> Our society picks an arbitrary cutoff of 18, but in fact people can be sexually attractive, and attracted at a considerably younger age. Kinsey institute says 25% of boys and girls have had sex by age 15.
> 
> I'm not saying that it is OK for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old, but I think we need much more of a sliding scale on the severity of the crime vs age and willingness of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Now if he forced girls, or if they were under ~15 then I'm happy to see him burn.


I believe the youngest was 16


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
was there lack of consent, outside of the question of whether a 16 year old can consent at all?



EllisRedding said:


> I believe the youngest was 16


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## EllisRedding

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> was there lack of consent, outside of the question of whether a 16 year old can consent at all?


They said he paid for the sex, so I am guessing there was consent on both sides. No indication it was forced.


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## Fozzy

There's still the small issue of proliferation of child porn.


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## EllisRedding

Fozzy said:


> There's still the small issue of proliferation of child porn.


I dont understand how anyone can find that even mildly appealing? I had to watch child porn as part of a jury case and it was flat out unwatchable (and that is with editing out the more graphic stuff)


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## Fozzy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9TXjIadhq0
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude

Five years?! Is THAT IT?! WTF?

This subhuman piece of sh-t needs to be cleaned out!


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
what age children were involved in the child porn. I think there is a difference between images of sexually mature, consenting people and actual children. I think the 18 year old cutoff isn't very realistic in the modern (or in fact any) world. 

25% of 15 year olds are sexually active, and many underage people exchange illegal pictures of themselves. I don't think its a good idea, but I have a hard time thinking that viewing such images should be a felony. 

If they were young children or if there was a lack of consent, that is different.


Remember the Traci Lords case. She was 15 I think when she went into porn (lying about her age). From all I have heard, her actions were completely voluntary. 




Fozzy said:


> There's still the small issue of proliferation of child porn.


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## Fozzy

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> what age children were involved in the child porn. I think there is a difference between images of sexually mature, consenting people and actual children. I think the 18 year old cutoff isn't very realistic in the modern (or in fact any) world.
> 
> 25% of 15 year olds are sexually active, and many underage people exchange illegal pictures of themselves. I don't think its a good idea, but I have a hard time thinking that viewing such images should be a felony.
> 
> If they were young children or if there was a lack of consent, that is different.
> 
> 
> Remember the Traci Lords case. She was 15 I think when she went into porn (lying about her age). From all I have heard, her actions were completely voluntary.


The law says otherwise however. There's a world of difference between two 15 year olds sexting each other, and a 40 year old trading illicit pictures of underage girls. Most 16 year olds, even if they voluntarily allow pictures to be taken of themselves, don't really grasp the long term implications of the fact that those pictures will outlive THEM.


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## Ikaika

RandomDude said:


> Five years?! Is THAT IT?! WTF?
> 
> 
> 
> This subhuman piece of sh-t needs to be cleaned out!



I don't think you realize that five years in a U.S. prison with the label of pedophile will serve him justice. Everyone in the system knows why "you" are there well in advance of arrival. There is a hierarchy structure and he will be at the very bottom.


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## Fozzy

Ikaika said:


> I don't think you realize that five years in a U.S. prison with the label of pedophile will serve him justice. Everyone in the system knows why "you" are there well in advance of arrival. There is a hierarchy structure and he will be at the very bottom.


Depends on where he's incarcerated. Many prisons now have a separate block for high-risk prisoners to keep them segregated from general population. Chomo's are usually kept there.


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## ConanHub

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> what were the ages of his victims, I haven't seen it anywhere? Were they consenting, or were they too young for that to be meaningful (say under 14).
> 
> I think that there is a range of seriousness of crimes from having sex wtih an underage but willing person (~15 or older) and having sex with a child. Then of course rape is a felony even with an adult, and worse with a child.
> 
> Our society picks an arbitrary cutoff of 18, but in fact people can be sexually attractive, and attracted at a considerably younger age. Kinsey institute says 25% of boys and girls have had sex by age 15.
> 
> I'm not saying that it is OK for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old, but I think we need much more of a sliding scale on the severity of the crime vs age and willingness of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Now if he forced girls, or if they were under ~15 then I'm happy to see him burn.


15, 16, yeah, who really cares. No exploitation or coercion involved there.

I sincerely wish that rats chew his crotch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OnTheFly

antechomai said:


> Jared is a mess, but the series of jokes about prison rape are not funny. To promote crimes against any man or woman in prison isn't what this site is about, or I thought is was.


Agreed, 100%


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## EllisRedding

antechomai said:


> Jared is a mess, but the series of jokes about prison rape are not funny. To promote crimes against any man or woman in prison isn't what this site is about, or I thought is was.


Well, technically if you look at the toolbar at the top of the TAM page, right next to "Tools" there appears to be a dedicated section "For The Rapists" ...

>


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## RandomDude

Ikaika said:


> I don't think you realize that five years in a U.S. prison with the label of pedophile will serve him justice. Everyone in the system knows why "you" are there well in advance of arrival. There is a hierarchy structure and he will be at the very bottom.


It's not enough, not to mention he will be living off other folks' taxes, and being protected inside the jail. Just clean him out and be done with it I say! Not to mention after 5 years - he'll be OUT to strike again! FK THAT!

Sometimes I just question how western countries enforce these 'rights' for subhumans sometimes...


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
Do people really think that sex with a 18 year old is OK, if possibly distasteful, but sex with a 17 year old means someone deserves to have their life ruined, be imprisoned for years, possibly including multiple gang rapes and beatings? Shouldn't there be some area where it is a minor crime?


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## Fozzy

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Do people really think that sex with a 18 year old is OK, if possibly distasteful, but sex with a 17 year old means someone deserves to have their life ruined, be imprisoned for years, possibly including multiple gang rapes and beatings? Shouldn't there be some area where it is a minor crime?


Richard, if you had a 16 year old daughter that was having sex with a 40 year old man over Craigslist---you'd consider that a minor offense?

Society has to set a threshold somewhere. 18 is what we've decided. Is sex with a 17 year old the same as with an 8 year old? No, it's not. But when you start pushing the boundaries on what society turns a blind eye toward, you put the creeps one step closer to that 8 year old.

ETA: a 40 year old having sex with an 18 year old--while legal--is still kind of creepy.


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## NobodySpecial

EllisRedding said:


> They said he paid for the sex, so I am guessing there was consent on both sides. No indication it was forced.


I am guessing that a minor is not a prostitute by choice. So HE may not have "forced", but I am guessing there is duress. Just sad.


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## arbitrator

NobodySpecial said:


> I am guessing that a minor is not a prostitute by choice. So HE may not have "forced", but I am guessing there is duress. Just sad.


*The law, with extremely rare exception, dictates that even if the act(s) were consensual on both parts, that a minor cannot unilaterally or legally offer that consent!

There is no question that what Jared did was a clear violation of both state and federal law. And barring a statute of limitations, once his five years are up, do not be surprised to see other states knocking on Jared's door about being summarily tried in their jurisdictions for similar crimes!

That plea bargain that his lawyers copped with the State of Indiana holds absolutely no water with those other jurisdictions!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I don't think we need a single threshold, there is no need to go from "OK" to life destroying felony in one step. There seems to be lots of room to have some situations be minor crimes. 

Ideally there would be a way to judge separately from age. There are some 16 year old's who are more mature than some 19 year olds. 

I don't have children so I can't common on how I would feel. I don't see sex as fundamentally bad. As long as both people understand the issues involved, I don't personally care much about the ages. I would be skeptical of anyone younger than ~15 understanding. 

What we have seems crazy to me. 25% of 15 year olds in the US have had sex. I don't see any particular reason that having sex with an older person is more harmful to the 15 year old, so we see to be saying that 25% of people are engaged in what is felony behavior. (Yes, I know the law looks at age differences - but why? Why is a 15 year old girl having sex with a 15 year old by different from her having sex with a 40 year old man? It seems that the risks are the same). 


BTW, I have no interest in any women significantly below my age and don't find young women attractive myself. 









Fozzy said:


> Richard, if you had a 16 year old daughter that was having sex with a 40 year old man over Craigslist---you'd consider that a minor offense?
> 
> Society has to set a threshold somewhere. 18 is what we've decided. Is sex with a 17 year old the same as with an 8 year old? No, it's not. But when you start pushing the boundaries on what society turns a blind eye toward, you put the creeps one step closer to that 8 year old.
> 
> ETA: a 40 year old having sex with an 18 year old--while legal--is still kind of creepy.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
"consent' is a very fuzzy definition, especially with prostitution, and especially with under age women. The law says that underage women cannot consent. I don't completely agree with the law. 

Consent in prostitution is a very interesting topic - but maybe another thread? 





NobodySpecial said:


> I am guessing that a minor is not a prostitute by choice. So HE may not have "forced", but I am guessing there is duress. Just sad.


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## DayOne

.


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## EllisRedding

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I don't think we need a single threshold, there is no need to go from "OK" to life destroying felony in one step. There seems to be lots of room to have some situations be minor crimes.
> 
> Ideally there would be a way to judge separately from age. There are some 16 year old's who are more mature than some 19 year olds.
> 
> I don't have children so I can't common on how I would feel. I don't see sex as fundamentally bad. As long as both people understand the issues involved, I don't personally care much about the ages. *I would be skeptical of anyone younger than ~15 understanding. *
> 
> What we have seems crazy to me. 25% of 15 year olds in the US have had sex. I don't see any particular reason that having sex with an older person is more harmful to the 15 year old, so we see to be saying that 25% of people are engaged in what is felony behavior. (Yes, I know the law looks at age differences - but why? Why is a 15 year old girl having sex with a 15 year old by different from her having sex with a 40 year old man? It seems that the risks are the same).
> 
> 
> BTW, I have no interest in any women significantly below my age and don't find young women attractive myself.


Out of curiosity you say there shouldn't be one single threshold, but in the bolded above you do apply a threshold of ~15

In the court of law, how can a judge determine if a 16 yr old really has the maturity level of a 19 yr old?


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I'd prefer not to have a age cutoff, but if there is one, I think 15 makes more sense than 18 (for felony charges). 

I don't have good ideas on maturity, all of the following have issues but some thoughts;

If the underage person has voluntarily engaged in sex in the past, then I think they have the right to consent in the future. 

I could imagine a test that would at least check technical knowledge - pregnancy STDs etc. This would get someone "certified" to have a working knowledge.

We allow children under 18 do do all sorts of dangerous things: drive cars, skiing, flying airplanes, sailing boats on the open ocean, in some areas simply walking to school is very dangerous. Why is sex different? Is this just a relic of ancient ides of protecting girls' virginity to keep their value as brides?








EllisRedding said:


> Out of curiosity you say there shouldn't be one single threshold, but in the bolded above you do apply a threshold of ~15
> 
> In the court of law, how can a judge determine if a 16 yr old really has the maturity level of a 19 yr old?


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## Runs like Dog

Scotland wants to give the vote to 16 year olds. The age of consent in Germany is 14. In Spain it's 13. In the US we're going the other way, making 18 year olds not full adults. 21 is the cutoff more or less with pressure being added to make THAT even higher - 25 or 26 for some things. You can't rent a car in the US for example until you're 25. 

Maybe we need to simply drop the hammer and infantilize everyone to age 30.


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## EllisRedding

Runs like Dog said:


> Maybe we need to simply drop the hammer and infantilize everyone to age 30.


I personally would like to see this moved to the age 40, that way all decisions I have made to date will be null and void


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## Mr The Other

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> what were the ages of his victims, I haven't seen it anywhere? Were they consenting, or were they too young for that to be meaningful (say under 14).
> 
> I think that there is a range of seriousness of crimes from having sex wtih an underage but willing person (~15 or older) and having sex with a child. Then of course rape is a felony even with an adult, and worse with a child.
> 
> Our society picks an arbitrary cutoff of 18, but in fact people can be sexually attractive, and attracted at a considerably younger age. Kinsey institute says 25% of boys and girls have had sex by age 15.
> 
> I'm not saying that it is OK for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old, but I think we need much more of a sliding scale on the severity of the crime vs age and willingness of the victim.
> 
> 
> 
> Now if he forced girls, or if they were under ~15 then I'm happy to see him burn.


True, the country I live in sets the age at 15. However, that is for the context of two mutually consenting teenagers to have sex together. If it is a 15 year old and a 40 year old, it moves into creepy.


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## RandomDude

This guy isn't just into teen porn he's into child porn, based on the article as young as 6! That's my daughter's age! FK THAT


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I absolutely agree with "creepy". I just think there is a long range between "creepy" and life destroying felony conviction.






Mr The Other said:


> True, the country I live in sets the age at 15. However, that is for the context of two mutually consenting teenagers to have sex together. If it is a 15 year old and a 40 year old, it moves into creepy.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
6 is a world of different from 16. If he is into actual children, that is different. (though I think watching (not creating) child porn is much less serious than actually molesting children. 



RandomDude said:


> This guy isn't just into teen porn he's into child porn, based on the article as young as 6! That's my daughter's age! FK THAT


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## RandomDude

Watching the porn itself encourages it! They are one and the same for me, watching or molesting, if I had my way I would clean both these sick fks out.


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## Mrs.Submission

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I don't think we need a single threshold, there is no need to go from "OK" to life destroying felony in one step. There seems to be lots of room to have some situations be minor crimes.
> 
> Ideally there would be a way to judge separately from age. There are some 16 year old's who are more mature than some 19 year olds.
> 
> I don't have children so I can't common on how I would feel. I don't see sex as fundamentally bad. *As long as both people understand the issues involved, I don't personally care much about the ages. I would be skeptical of anyone younger than ~15 understanding. *
> 
> What we have seems crazy to me. 25% of 15 year olds in the US have had sex. *I don't see any particular reason that having sex with an older person is more harmful to the 15 year old, so we see to be saying that 25% of people are engaged in what is felony behavior. (Yes, I know the law looks at age differences - but why? Why is a 15 year old girl having sex with a 15 year old by different from her having sex with a 40 year old man? It seems that the risks are the same). *
> 
> 
> BTW, I have no interest in any women significantly below my age and don't find young women attractive myself.


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## arbitrator

*Under most state laws in the United States, a pair of 15 year olds caught fornicating with each other will often walk away from their offense with little more than a rap on the knuckles!

But under their respective state penal codes, they can definitely be sentenced to the juvenile clink for a prescribed period of time!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away

I don't think @richardsharpe has considered what other laws are dependant on the age of consent.

If we give 15year olds consent, then 15year olds should no longer be limited by how many hours they can work in any given day/week. We also then must give them consent to renounce citizenship, and education. Therefore we as the people of the United States should no longer be liable, or responsible for providing, education or child welfare to anybody over the age of 15.

I don't think that is the direction we as a majority would like to set our nation on. That is why we have drafted the laws the way they currently stand.

If you don't want life destroying consequences, abide by the laws and keep your d¡ck out of 16 year old girls.


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## EllisRedding

RandomDude said:


> Watching the porn itself encourages it! They are one and the same for me, watching or molesting, if I had my way I would clean both these sick fks out.


Exactly, and look at it this way, it people weren't watching child porn then there would be less incentive for those to actually create child porn. So watching it or not, you are supporting/encouraging child porn.


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## EllisRedding

OK, and maybe a little bit off topic but somewhat related to what we are talking about. Currently my understanding of the law, if you have sex with a minor (let's say 16 yrs old and you are 20), but the 16yr old lied to you about their age (whether verbal, fake ids, etc...?), it doesn't matter, even if you can prove the person lied, it would still be considered sexual assault of a minor. Is that fair/effective?


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
the US already has different ages for different activities, including the rather absurd one that you can be in the military before you can drink alcohol. 



gouge_away said:


> I don't think @richardsharpe has considered what other laws are dependant on the age of consent.
> 
> If we give 15year olds consent, then 15year olds should no longer be limited by how many hours they can work in any given day/week. We also then must give them consent to renounce citizenship, and education. Therefore we as the people of the United States should no longer be liable, or responsible for providing, education or child welfare to anybody over the age of 15.
> 
> I don't think that is the direction we as a majority would like to set our nation on. That is why we have drafted the laws the way they currently stand.
> 
> If you don't want life destroying consequences, abide by the laws and keep your d¡ck out of 16 year old girls.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I believe that is true in the US. Whatever the age of consent, I've always thought that if you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the other person is an adult, it should not be a crime. 




EllisRedding said:


> OK, and maybe a little bit off topic but somewhat related to what we are talking about. Currently my understanding of the law, if you have sex with a minor (let's say 16 yrs old and you are 20), but the 16yr old lied to you about their age (whether verbal, fake ids, etc...?), it doesn't matter, even if you can prove the person lied, it would still be considered sexual assault of a minor. Is that fair/effective?


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I've never seen watching a crime as being the same as committing one. 

I do understand that paying for CP can create a market, and I think it deserves to be illegal, but just a much lower level crime than actually molesting a child. 

As far as I've heard, almost all CP is distributed by the FBI anyway. 



RandomDude said:


> Watching the porn itself encourages it! They are one and the same for me, watching or molesting, if I had my way I would clean both these sick fks out.


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## Fozzy

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I've never seen watching a crime as being the same as committing one.
> 
> I do understand that paying for CP can create a market, and I think it deserves to be illegal, but just a much lower level crime than actually molesting a child.
> 
> As far as I've heard, almost all CP is distributed by the FBI anyway.


Helping to create and perpetuate a market whereby children get kidnapped, molested and exploited for the purpose of that market is just as sick and evil as doing the deed yourself.


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## arbitrator

EllisRedding said:


> OK, and maybe a little bit off topic but somewhat related to what we are talking about. Currently my understanding of the law, if you have sex with a minor (let's say 16 yrs old and you are 20), but the 16yr old lied to you about their age (whether verbal, fake ids, etc...?), it doesn't matter, even if you can prove the person lied, it would still be considered sexual assault of a minor. Is that fair/effective?


*Yes! And that legal premise has withstood the appellate courts of all of our states as well as the Federal court system! Unfair or not, it is the law until such time that the Supreme Court finds legal merit in overturning it, or until such time that the state legislatures enact laws to that effect!

And quite frankly, I wouldn't exactly expect either of those measures to happen anytime soon!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator




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## Healer

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I've never seen watching a crime as being the same as committing one.


Then you're part of the problem.



richardsharpe said:


> As far as I've heard, almost all CP is distributed by the FBI anyway.


What?? Where did you get this?


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## EllisRedding

richardsharpe said:


> As far as I've heard, almost all CP is distributed by the FBI anyway.


I wouldn't say that. They have people who obviously sign up for accounts undercover and have software that can help track/trace CP as it is distributed.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
You are saying that my belief that watching child porn is a less severe crime than molesting actual children makes me part of the child porn problem?

For the FBI distribution - I have to admit that that may be an internet / slashdot rumor. All I can find is one example:
The FBI Ran a Child Porn Site for Two Whole Weeks
where they ran a site as a honeypot for a while. To be clear, when I say they are distributing I mean that they are running honey pots. 

I am touchy about child porn because it, along with terrorism, have been used to excuse a large amount of surveillance of citizens in nominally free countries. 




Healer said:


> Then you're part of the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> What?? Where did you get this?


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## Starstarfish

Witnessing and/or passively participating in many other crimes can get you charged as an accessory or an accessory after the fact. I mean, would you argue watching, paying for, and encouraging snuff films just isn't that bad because your weren't the one murdering people? 

If so, I think I've officially lost the last vestiges of hope I had left for humanity. Where our voyeur culture of filming bullying, fights, beatings, rapes, and other things rather than stopping them is seen as only natural. Where our horror films are now in essence torture porn. And we don't question the mentality of wanting to see these things.

And I'm sorry, but outside of the Internet I don't think there's any way someone could say "some 15 year olds are very mature" or "watching just isn't that bad" and not have consequences. Go to work and announce you feel it's not that serious to watch 6 years being raped and see how that goes.

The fact is we seem to have a problem sympathizing with criminals more than victims. That we "ruin proples lives" punishing crimes only seems to come up when the perps are otherwise respectable seeming white guys. (Cue sympathy for Josh Duggar too.) The fact you had to clarify that previously having sex doesn't invalidate the need for consent given someones age speaks volumes about our rape culture mindset. Why should the fact you had sex before mean anything? Is this the Middle Ages, where only virgins truly be raped? 

Some posts on this thread are so, so wrong.


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