# Kind of at a loss here...



## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

I didn't really know where to post this as this is my first post. I'm not considering divorce but have some serious issues that I would like to see if anyone else has experienced the same or similar. I have been married for 8 years now. My second marriage. We have kids together and what we have together is all we have. I am having some problems and I don't know if they are just me or if there is some underlying issues. 

My wife and I clicked REALLY strong when we got together and were for many years. Then I royally messed up and got involved with someone else. She decided to stay and she did some things behind my back with others that were just to spite me or "get even." I fought like hell to keep the pieces together and managed to do so fairly well. That's been a little over 6 years now.
Some of the issue is that she still holds what I did over my head from time to time but gets outraged when I even mention that "we both messed up." I honestly do not talk specifics. I know we will never get any where if we keep bringing them up. But I also know we will never truly "forget."

Another is that I have a drive for improvement of myself and our family and lifestyle. I have ambition for our lives and the lives of our children. She seems to want to sit here where we are and not move forward. I'm in school and working both full time and every time I start talking about wanting to move a few years after I graduate she wants out of the conversation and does what ever she can to change it. I also do not get anywhere near the support she got from me when she was in school. I'm not saying she does not support me at all but I went way over and beyond for her. 

I also do not FEEL as though she loves me. I know she does she chose to stay with me and fix things after all. I am a hopeless romantic...completely hopeless. I also know that skin on skin physical contact is what really drives me. It doesn't have to be sex, not that I don't want it, on the contrary I am very much a sexual person. She was for a good while in our relationship then it fell off. Which I know now is normal, I didn't before hence my affair. After we got things back together, she had a good drive to accommodate my need for physical intimacy, not just the sexual part but the simple physical parts as well. I know she likes me to do things for her that's how she knows I love her and I do hand and foot. Here lately it seems like she don't care. She knows what makes me feel loved but she just don't care about doing the things.

Finally I am terrified to talk to her. She is a ball of fire and very, very headstrong and stubborn. She also is one to intentionally hurt your feelings just so the conversation ends. And these qualities are not just at me, that's how she is to everyone. Anytime I want to talk she just gets angry and makes me feel like I shouldn't feel the things I do, I should just be glad we are together. I can't see a good way here to get resolution. I am a very passive person, I DON'T LET PEOPLE RUN OVER ME, but it takes me a while to get riled up. I can't keep this up my thoughts right this moment are "Why did I fight so hard? For this? It doesn't seem worth it anymore." I hate those thoughts. I love my wife very deeply.
Any advice or thoughts anyone?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

HB,

I think you are saying that you had an affair and then your W went and had a few affairs to get even? It sounds like none of these affairs were ever recovered from. It's sorta like your W saw you drilling a hole in your families lifeboat so she drilled 3 more. Ouch revenge affairs.

Tamat


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Your marriage never fully recovered from the damages caused by the affairs. Your wife has checked out and is just hanging in there. Waiting for something. Who knows what. She sounds very angry and bitter. She is still holding on to some resentments. Time to get help or get out. Intense IC and MC. If you hope to salvage anything, don't take no for an answer. Good luck.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

She never slept with anyone just some awful conversation with someone and some grabbing with another. Mine was way worse. And all that was way back as well. We came a long way forward. I honestly am wondering if we have been simply growing apart...I don't know. We are extremely different now and we weren't not too long ago. The changes in our lives together seem to be driving us apart. I feel what she wanted out of life and what I want is on two totally different levels and there CANNOT be a middle ground. 
She acts like there's nothing wrong she is dutiful by all means. She cares for the kids and makes sure the house is in order and ensures that I have food to take for lunch at school and work. These things are great and wonderful but she just don't seem to care about what *I* need as a husband. I know a lot of it is me. Not feeling "loved" because she is not participating physically anywhere near the level we had. I don't require much just enough to make my insecurities take flight. It gets to the point where I am practically begging her, ha (I know it sounds completely pathetic) but that's what it takes to get it out of her. And by then she just seems to be doing it to do it... or just so I'll leave her alone. She says she doesn't feel "sexy" and I don't know why she hasn't changed much at all since we got together, luckily nor have I for that matter.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have some questions that I think will help to understand more:

How old are the two of you?

How many hours a week do you spend between work and school?
How many hours a week does your wife spend at her job?

How many hours a week do each of you spend on household chores, child care, etc? (what number is it for each of you?)

What percentage of your joint income do you earn?

What is the highest level of education that each of you have? (This includes what degree will you have when you are done with school?)

How many hours a week do the two of you spend in quality time together, just the two of you? What sorts of things do you do.

The answers to these will give a clearer insight into your marriage.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

I am 30 she is 29 (we are 9 months apart)

I spend about 82-84 hours away between work and school (for the past month before that just a typical 40 hr work week)
she spends about 45 (unless she is doing community outreach requirements)

Chores- me roughly 10 or so total
her- i'm not 100% sure 
(we are a very clean family for the most part clean up after ourselves on the weekends we tackle the whole house together)
Child care - me 48 to 50 hrs (I typically give her the weekends "off")
her - 80 or so total all week

I earn roughly 58% of total

both - diploma (mine however will hold higher rank so to speak)

the past month we really haven't done anything together just us. but before we barely had any "weekly" time but we did set aside days for date days and nights once or twice a month.

The concerns however have been around for the better part of a year now though


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

it seems to be that your both have unsolved anger between you too, and you seem to switch between the two of you, have you thought to tell her...i give up, i don't have a fight in me left, you win....and see what she says....you both need therapy to open up the real lines of communications, this passive aggressive behavior just doesn't work long term.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You've rugswept your affair, without addressing the hurt that it caused your wife. She retaliated. You need to see a marriage counselor to help you with your marital problems. 

There is so much anger in your wife towards you. She is trying to distance herself from you physically and emotionally. There are issues that have not been addressed because of your infidelity. You must address these; otherwise, you cannot effectively reconcile.

What was the length of your affair? Who was your affair partner - a coworker, a classmate, an acquaintance? How did you get entangled in this relationship? This is your second marriage and you should have safeguarded this marriage from another failure.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

I have not rugswept my affair. We went to counseling for a bit and read some suggested books. She told me a while back, after reading one of the books that we read together, that she did not condone such behavior by anyone and was still very hurt by it but she understood why I faltered. I took responsibility for my wrong doings as did she. And we spent many, many months talking every gut wrenching detail out. It was about a 9 month affair with someone that was a coworker when it started. I did not initiate the situation. Someone showed up showing me the affection that my wife was not. It got me messed up in my head and I fell off the deep end. I have done much counseling on my own as well to safeguard my frailties. I really don't think that our past wrong doings are THAT much of what the problem is. I know that it weighs some because like I said, we can forgive but we never truly forget. I mainly mentioned it because I wanted readers to get a full scale picture of our situation.

I reread my original post to and I want to clarify something. She doesn't say I should just be happy we're together meaning that she stayed but that we are together in general. Like when I complain about a bad day at work and I say something about being ready to leave my job she gets upset and says that I should just be happy that I can provide for my family and not worry about "bad days." Again something she does not hold herself to.


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## mmcm3333 (Sep 12, 2015)

I agree with the PP's. You're discounting the effect that your extramarital affair had on the whole relationship. She's possibly lost trust and lost the energy in the relationship. Affairs are generally a symptom of something else, as you've mentioned. But 'counseling for a bit' doesn't cut it. 

I do have to point out that while I think affairs can mean a lack of something at home, a 9 month affair is different. You had a relationship with this other woman- it wasn't just a one or two night fling. You've said you didn't initiate it- which sounds like an excuse- and that really doesn't hold up especially because you let it continue for so long. From what I understand, this happened relatively early in the marriage (within 2 years), before your marriage was really established. The first several years of marriage are really hard- if you looked elsewhere so quickly, you can't expect to be trusted. And you can't be surprised that your partner has lost faith in the partnership (especially if you're not owning up to the issues- as you stated, you don't think your past wrong doings are that much of the problem...I beg to differ). When you violate the trust and vows you made, yeah, problems persist until things change and that takes time. You just can't expect your partner to move on from this just because you're sorry and want to put it behind you. 

The point is, if you haven't dealt with it, the infidelity is still there- and maybe you've moved on, but she hasn't. Based on what you've written, you've downplayed the affair and focused on how different she is now- an affair can have long-lasting repercussions without resolution in the marriage. You say you're a romantic, you're physical, you two used to be on the same page, but an affair can derail all of that and have long-lasting effects. You say you're both just 'different' now, and that's a frustration to you- and almost a surprise. First, people do change as they grow up. But this is not that simple: If my husband cheated on me for 9 months and we didn't work through it, yes, I'd back off from him. I'd be especially upset if he did this with young children at home (your needs are important, but theirs are more important). I may not divorce him for the sake of my child/children, but I'd turn my focus on the kids because my husband showed me he'll quickly turn elsewhere if things aren't right rather than communicate- and I'd consider him very selfish. You changed the tune of the marriage- and the problems persist. You can't expect her to be the same person now. I recommend regular marital counseling. If you're both still unhappy, then you just focus on the kids and divorce when they're 18.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

I've been doing some more reading on here, which I wish I would have done before starting this. The responses to so many problems on here are "divorce." Don't think for a second that I don't know that what I did was wrong and would have effects on everything we ever had. We've been closer after it than we were before it. Now things are different and maybe they are based on that but I still don't think so at least entirely. I don't think this is a good place to find any sort of advice on anything. I hope the rest of the people here who are looking for encouragement and advice find what they need. All I see is judgment and condemnation. I know what I did was wrong and we have done what we could afford in the way of counseling and kept it going with self help. I can see that I do need to find a place to get some additional counseling to find the root of this current situation. What I was trying to do here was get some insight from someone who may have been in a similar boat. I do not want to quit and give up. Even after my kids are old enough to not cost either of us child support.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

husbandbot said:


> I am 30 she is 29 (we are 9 months apart)


So the two of you married pretty young. That alone can be a huge stress on a marriage. The two of you have most likely changed so much that you both are very different from what you were like when you were 21 and 22.


husbandbot said:


> I spend about 82-84 hours away between work and school (for the past month before that just a typical 40 hr work week)
> she spends about 45 (unless she is doing community outreach requirements)





husbandbot said:


> the past month we really haven't done anything together just us. but before we barely had any "weekly" time but we did set aside days for date days and nights once or twice a month.


Based on this and other stuff that you said, the two of you are not getting enough quality time together, just the two of you, to nurture you relationship and build non-sexual as well as sexual intimacy. A couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together doing things that they both enjoy, just the two of them. Without that you get what you have… spouses who feel unloved, who grow apart and who lose their bond.


husbandbot said:


> Chores- me roughly 10 or so total
> her- i'm not 100% sure
> (we are a very clean family for the most part clean up after ourselves on the weekends we tackle the whole house together)


It sounds like she might be doing the majority of housework, etc.


husbandbot said:


> Child care - me 48 to 50 hrs (I typically give her the weekends "off")
> her - 80 or so total all week


So she does the majority of child care.


husbandbot said:


> I earn roughly 58% of total


Her income is pretty close to yours. 


husbandbot said:


> both - diploma (mine however will hold higher rank so to speak)


I assume you mean that you both will have bachelor degrees. 



husbandbot said:


> The concerns however have been around for the better part of a year now though


Clearly the two of you have been falling away from each other for a long time. With what you said here and your affair, I can see why.
My guess is that she does not want to move once you have your degree for a few reasons. 1) The assumption that you two should move once you get your degree is basically a statement that your career is more important than hers. 2) With your marriage being so rocky she needs her career. 3) She would be giving up the environment, job, etc that she is familiar with for the unknown. That’s scary when there is not a good marriage. 3) She is working and doing most of the housework and child care. So she’s mostly on her own already in many ways.

I get why she’s not all revved up about moving on your whim.

I agree with the others. The two of you have not properly healed from your affair. You two also are not doing enough to rebuild and maintain your marriage. There are two books that I think could help you. The two of you would read them and to the work together to restructure and fix your marriage. Read them in this order: “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. You do the love busters first so that those are recognized and you both stop doing the negatives. Then you go on to the HNHN book and do the work there to rebuild your marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

husbandbot said:


> I've been doing some more reading on here, which I wish I would have done before starting this. The responses to so many problems on here are "divorce." Don't think for a second that I don't know that what I did was wrong and would have effects on everything we ever had. We've been closer after it than we were before it. Now things are different and maybe they are based on that but I still don't think so at least entirely. I don't think this is a good place to find any sort of advice on anything. I hope the rest of the people here who are looking for encouragement and advice find what they need. All I see is judgment and condemnation. I know what I did was wrong and we have done what we could afford in the way of counseling and kept it going with self help. I can see that I do need to find a place to get some additional counseling to find the root of this current situation. What I was trying to do here was get some insight from someone who may have been in a similar boat. I do not want to quit and give up. Even after my kids are old enough to not cost either of us child support.


There are two reasons why the response to so much here on TAM is divorce.

1) often times, by the time a person comes to TAM seeking input, their marriage is so far gone that there is no coming back. 

2) Most of the infidelity cases here on TAM are men who have wives who cheat. Most men will dump a woman who cheats. And on TAM, the sentiment, especially among the men who post here is that divorcing a wife who has cheated is the only answer. I disagree.. but that that's the usual advice by men to men.

I don't think that your marriage is a lost cause. That's why I suggested the books that I did. With some tweaking, I think that you two could fix your marriage.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

thank you for some positive feedback. well at least that ended positively. I'm ok with some "tough love" I just can't believe how much talk there is of abandonment in here. I will fight for what I want. I know how badly I f'ed up. No one needs to point that out. It's not a moving whim either. It's been years, like before we married years, that I've been talking about it. but I can see what you mean. I will check out these books. Thank you again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

husbandbot said:


> thank you for some positive feedback. well at least that ended positively. I'm ok with some "tough love" I just can't believe how much talk there is of abandonment in here. I will fight for what I want. I know how badly I f'ed up. No one needs to point that out. It's not a moving whim either. It's been years, like before we married years, that I've been talking about it. but I can see what you mean. I will check out these books. Thank you again.


I get that you know how much you messed up with the affair. I also believe that couples can go on to have very good marriages after an affair. I've seen in happen very often.

On the things about moving, it's highly likely that if your marriage gets stronger, her issues with it will go away. 

Good luck, I hope things work out for you and your family.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

what i am hearing from you or actually the examples you are mentioning in regards to your wife reaction about going into a discomfort dialogue with you are trigger words....when you came home and you had a bad day or perhaps moving away when finishing school, to her those might be trigger words that perhaps deep down makes her think your unhappy again and will now look to move on (even perhaps from her). try this, again this is just a hunch....change your vocabulary,....think about it this way attitude is gratitude, when you have a bad day tell her i wish my day had gone better but i am still glad to have a great job to take care of my family and the best part is that i come home to you, this is my sanctuary....when you talk about school i would say, that i long when i don't have to crack the books night after night and i can spend it with you, i hear your a very nice person and i want to get to know you, and smile. I think your wife needs reassurance and that is not in just deeds but in words, the words we use are just as important.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Hbot, no one is telling you to separate or divorce. I don't think you are such a broken place yet. But there are cracks in your marriage. While you might think that your affair was dealt with, your wife is still suffering. She is probably very alert and trying to read you, to see if you are at a place where you could cheat again. 

So, when you are making your grand plans and complaining about work, she is thinking, "he is not happy, he is not happy with our live, he is not happy with us". This is putting her in a bad place. It's makes her unsure. She does not know how she is going to fit in with everything. Because she is worried that you are at that place, again.

So, I agree with Xenote, change how you use your words. Instead of "my day was so bad"- you say " babe, I am so glad to be home". "Coming home to you and the kids, was all I thought about today".

Make her the focus. Spend time with her. Nurture your marriage, feed it with loving gestures, words and action. You have to make her secure again, instead of watchful and waiting for something bad to happen.

Read the books Ele recommended. Good luck.


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## husbandbot (Sep 11, 2015)

Yeah, I can see how my vocabulary could be making her feel these things. I never really thought about that especially in that way. I will do my best to make adjustments as often as I can to reassure her. I have both of the recommended books ordered and on their way. Thanks for the advice!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I think you are using positive outlets to not focus too much on what is lacking in your marriage. You are going to school and you are helping with the kids to give your wife some HER time.

If you went to counseling after the affairs and all was well, then your problems are due to other reasons.

There is poor communication between you and your wife. How can you fix this?

The others are right in that she thinks you are not happy...I think she knows you are not happy because she knows she is not providing the level of affection/intimacy you need. This comes out of you when you feel that you are ambitious and she is not. You need counseling on how to meet each other's needs and how to communicate those needs more effectively.

Kudos to you for using positive outlets instead of destructive outlets like affairs to get your needs met. Time to get tough and get to communicating HB.


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