# Low Libido - Am I missing something?



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I can't talk to my wife about this, so maybe some women here suffer from the same and can educate me.

My wife apparently suffers from low (basically nonexistent) libido. She's been to a variety of doctors, tried hormone replacement therapy, special diets, everything short of voodoo. Nothing seems to work. Everything I read on the topic suggests we talk about it, that I should be patient and understanding, use nonsexual touching, no pressure, etc. I have displayed the patience of Job, used non-sexual touching just this side of being gay. I've tried to wear a grin for nearly 8 years of sex drought, one spell lasted 6 months. Any normal man would have grabbed a sniper rifle and started looking for a tower by now. 

I do understand that she doesn't naturally feel sexually aroused.
I also know that each time she has agreed to try, she always has an orgasm. 

I have no idea what it feels like to not to be able to feel horny at all. I do realize this is not a choice for her. In my mind, though, she knows I am frustrated and she is still physically able to do something to relieve that frustration but she doesn't. To me, that means she doesn't care about my needs at all and she's basically being just plain cruel. Naturally, that makes me thing ill of her and I'd rather not feel that way.

Secondly, before we married, she was tardy with sex but she kept telling me that I was expecting sex as if I were married when we weren't. That suggested to me that her unwillingness to have sex was linked to marriage and once we were married, refreshing showers of sex would replace the drought. No such luck. I made a vow and I'm not going anywhere. I'd just like to know what game we're playing so I can quit feeling like an idiot.
If we're going to live like brother and sister till one of us dies, that needs to be explained to me so I can quit coming to the well looking for a drink. She suffers from depression and/or bipolar and takes meds. I know these can adversely affect sex drive and she's talked to the doc about it.

I have two questions and I honestly want to know the answers.

#1. Obviously, a woman doesn't have to be sexually aroused to perform sexually, or at least make the attempt. I can't believe that prostitutes and porno actresses are always horny but they do what must be done. I surely don't expect her to take one for the team every other night, but I don't think once every two or three weeks is unreasonable. I don't like doing without for weeks on end, but I do so out of respect for her. Is her refusal really a choice as it seems to me? 

#2. What would compel a person to enter into an adult relationship or marriage if they couldn't or didn't wish to have sex?? If I were afraid of horses, I wouldn't take a job as a jockey. If I were afraid of heights, I wouldn't be a window washer. I do understand that some couples agree to a celibate marriage and if that's what they both want, that's their choice. To me, a mate engages in mating behavior. If I wanted a roommate, I could have advertised for one. 

There is absolutely no way she's having an affair. She seems to have no sexual interest period. She makes snide comments at anything remotely romantic on TV, even. She dresses like she's 90.

I haven't tried talking to her in Mandarin Chinese, but I've used basically every other approach and there just is no way to talk to her about this without her immediately becoming hostile. I can quietly and pretend pleasantly to go without it for a month but if I drop a hint, "all I want" is sex. I can give her non-sexual backrubs, brush her hair, hold her hand every day for weeks but let me touch her breast and "all I do" is "grope" her. If all she wants is financial support, I can truck off to Afghanistan and triple my present salary. She absolutely doesn't seem to care at all about how I'm feeling. I tried to talk to her two nights ago and she didn't even look up from her laptop. The good news is her Farmtown crops are thriving. 
I suggested that we pick just one time and day a week to be intimate and that I wouldn't even hint at sex for the other 6 days. She rolled her eyes, sighed, and said "yeah, whatever". 
Saturday (the designated day), came and went without her showing any interest or effort at all. 
I made a promise and I'll keep it but I am seriously considering trotting off to Afghanistan for a year or two. If I can't make love, I can at least make money. Who knows? I might come back to find the problem worked itself out. If not, I can always just stay over there and keep making money. Celibacy isn't my cup of tea but I'm extremely attracted to my wife and being a monk would actually be easier if I wasn't within arms reach of her. If I get pushed away one more time, I think I'll fire up the chainsaw and just plain go nutz. She actually told me a few days ago that I must enjoy being pushed away. Reading this, I'm sure yall are thinking I'm the ugliest, smelliest, fattest guy on earth but I'm actually a pretty normal looking guy. I've been a soldier 29 years and I'm in pretty good shape. I'm not 20 but I'm in better physical shape than most of my 20 year old soldiers. I don't flirt but women occasionally come onto me. I'm not everyone's idea of garbage and when we first were dating my wife jumped my bones every time I showed up. I'm the same guy. 
I treat her like a queen, deny her nothing, do most of the chores, treat her with respect at all times, compliment her daily. What gives?


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Well, first I have to say I hope you have not expressed your opinion that a woman does not need to be sexually aroused to perform sexually. As a man you may not understand this, but part of sexual arousal is lubrication, and if she is not turned on, she will not have any lubrication, which will make it very painful for her. Not to mention, to have the example of a prostitute or porn star thrust at you as the argument for why you should have sex is a pretty major turn off as well. So, if you've said any of that to her, that could be playing a role in this as well. 

With that said, the thing about horniness is that if you aren't, it doesn't occur to you that the other person might be. It's kind of the same way that when you're happy, you don't automatically think someone else might not be. You assume everyone feels the way you do. Since you never think about it, you don't consider that other people might. I don't think she's being deliberately cruel, I think she just honestly doesn't think about the fact that you have needs. She's being selfish, but I don't think intentionally. 

I know you are frustrated, and letting your frustration out here. And so I'm hoping that the tone you have here is not the tone you take with her when you try to discuss it. If it is, then I think you guys aren't communicating very well on this. Even if you don't talk to her in this tone, it seems communication is the problem. I realize you think you have tried everything, but I have to think that there is something missing in these conversations. I'm not sure what, since you seem fairly articulate here, even in your frustration. 

I would try maybe sitting down with some paper and a pen (or on the computer if you prefer) and writing out all your thoughts and feelings on this topic. Write down everything you'd like to say to her. Every question you have, every theory, every thought that has crossed your mind. Take a few days to do this, so that you cover everything. Then once you do that, maybe clean it up a bit, try to make the more hurtful parts a little less hurtful if you can and then either read it to her or let her read it. Tell her you don't want an immediate response, you'd like her to think about what you've said for a few days, and then you'd like to know what she thinks. See if that changes anything, I would think that would at least give you a more definite answer from her. 

If that doesn't work, the only other thing I could suggest would be marital counseling, but really, if you've already told her everything about how you feel on this, I don't know how much that could help.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Of course I don't say these things to her. I do understand about lubrication issues but I'm not even looking for anything that would require lubrication at this point, besides, lubricants can be purchased if that were the issue. I wouldn't want to physically hurt her no matter how frustrated I was. I do avoid saying or doing things that might turn her off but let's be honest, I could speak Swahili and it would change nothing. It would be difficult to be cut off more than I am. She can't really deny me air. Patience and understanding hasn't worked. I suppose then, that the answer is as I suspected....continue to suck it up and put on a happy face. In another 20 years or so, I'll probably lose my sex drive and maybe we can have something resembling a normal life.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Go ahead and try to diagnose it, try to fix it, do what you may but remember that it's okay, perfectly well within your right religiously and legally, to leave her on the grounds of the marriage being unconsummated.

Like you said, for whatever screwball reason, some people think they are called to marriage and then for whatever screwball reason think sex is optional or something. Yes, you have to give the female persuasion some latitude with sexuality. Male sexuality. . .well, it just erupts like a volcano when you are 13 or 14. Female sexuality. . .well, it's like a garden. . .it grows and it becomes peak harvest around age 38. It's got to be cultivated a little by her and you and she's just letting it sit there and fallow.

We could sit online here all day and figure out why but who knows why.

Your devotion to your vows is admirable but frankly, the marriage you are loyal to is invalid.

I am not trying to plant seeds of doubt into your mind and break the two of you up. . .I am just relating to you how serious this really is.

Think about if you absolutely dead-set on kids and this was years ago, when having kids was really a main purpose of marriage (it still is). And then the spouse doesn't want to have sex and works to twart that?

You think any Catholic Priest, Rabbi, or Minister is going to give their blessing to that type of union? Think again. Nope, you're excused.

Also, these bipolar/depressed types. . .I feel for them. I really do. But the cure for depression is often deceptively simple - get off your ass and get moving. Occasionally I get depressed. You wanna know what I do? I get off my ass and get moving. Sex is a great way to get moving.

Again, do what you may. . .follow the psychobabblists advice. . .but sooner or later, it's okay to throw in the towel and let her grow her vegetables in Farmville the rest of her life if that what makes her happy.


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## advise (Aug 23, 2010)

I 2nd everything scannerguard said.

Perfect post.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Not that I completely disagree with what Scannerguard said, but I do have to say that your theory on depression/bipolar is much too simplistic. I myself have suffered from major depression in the past. It is not so simple as get up and get moving. If you are severely depressed, just the thought of getting up and getting moving is enough to exhaust you. There is a big difference between depressed as in a little down and depressed as in clinical depression or bipolar disorder.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She has energy for pretty much anything else she wishes to do. If it was mere depression, seems that it would affect all other activities as well. This isn't the case. I'm not looking to leave her. Other than the sex, we get along quite nicely. I enjoy her company and I think the world of her. I don't imagine I can fix this but it would be handy if I could understand it in some way that didn't involve me thinking that she was indifferent or cruel. I really hate thinking of my wife in those terms but this business makes no sense to me otherwise.


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Im a bit similar in that I don't have a sexual bone in my body (never did). Sounds like she is in the same place as I was - you pretend to be into sex for years and years and eventually you just get sick of pretending and you just plain can't do it anymore. That, and you resent your partner. You can only enjoy sex which you don't like yourself, but to please your partner, for so long.

The thing I do to get past this with my husband is that I have changed our sex so there is a bit of fun in it for me. I laugh, keep it light hearted, etc while I'm assisting my husband with his needs. If she can think of sex as "a fun thing to do" then she may be open to try it more. If she sees it as just another serious aspect of life then that pretty much kills it. 

The one thing you have to realise is that you will probably never see that serious "I want you now" look. That is something some people just can't do for whatever reason. But if you can handle the "fun" type of sex then you guys could probably pull it off to your satisfaction. It ends up with less pressure on her too, and if its fun enough, she might even look forward to it. Another thing that helps with me (might not be an issue with your wife though) is that I prefer the focus to be on my husband and not me. I have no sexual needs and he is the one that needs them filled, so I'd rather just concentrate on him enjoying himself rather than trying to get me to enjoy myself, which is like kicking a dead horse. So yeah you could try that too if you feel it might help.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you have kids?

Does she work full time?



unbelievable said:


> I can't talk to my wife about this, so maybe some women here suffer from the same and can educate me.
> 
> My wife apparently suffers from low (basically nonexistent) libido. She's been to a variety of doctors, tried hormone replacement therapy, special diets, everything short of voodoo. Nothing seems to work. Everything I read on the topic suggests we talk about it, that I should be patient and understanding, use nonsexual touching, no pressure, etc. I have displayed the patience of Job, used non-sexual touching just this side of being gay. I've tried to wear a grin for nearly 8 years of sex drought, one spell lasted 6 months. Any normal man would have grabbed a sniper rifle and started looking for a tower by now.
> 
> ...


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

And Scannerguard, your take on mental illness is quite offensive and right off base. You need to do a bit more reading, young man.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

A true measure of love is the "desire to please". So lets forget sex for a moment - ask her if she will give you a nice long back massage that is not intended as foreplay. If she loves you in the "true" sense she will jump at the chance to please you. If she declines a back massage then this is simply someone who has no real desire to please you. If you stay with someone like that you are never going to be happy.

As for leaving to go to Afghan - if that means more money and less husband she will like that long as she isn't worried about you meeting someone else.




unbelievable said:


> She has energy for pretty much anything else she wishes to do. If it was mere depression, seems that it would affect all other activities as well. This isn't the case. I'm not looking to leave her. Other than the sex, we get along quite nicely. I enjoy her company and I think the world of her. I don't imagine I can fix this but it would be handy if I could understand it in some way that didn't involve me thinking that she was indifferent or cruel. I really hate thinking of my wife in those terms but this business makes no sense to me otherwise.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Mem,

We have no kids together (mine are grown). She works as a public school teacher in the inner city. Right now is worse than usual for her because school recently started and things are hectic. She doesn't deal well with changes and the first of the school year is always chaotic. During the school year, I don't expect much out of her on school days. She comes home exhausted. She comes home wound up like a Swiss watch. I fix her supper and she basically rests, watching TV and working or playing Farmtown on her laptop. She's somewhat more available for sex in the summer but it's never more often than once every two weeks or so. I do know that some people with Bipolar can't even hold down a job. She manages to do a job that would drive most people to drink. I know I'd rather deal with criminals on my job than some of the kids and parents she has to contend with. I know she has psych challenges and I don't expect her to function great all the time or to function as a completely well person any of the time. Some people have wives who can't walk or see. Some have wives with terminal illnesses. My only complaint is that I rarely have sexual moments with my wife. Yes, it's a problem and "yes" it drives me to the point of wanting to scream, but when I look at what drama other people deal with, we are pretty blessed. We both have jobs, are pretty healthy, bills paid, a little scratch in the bank, car runs fine. A friend of our's just buried her husband. My wife isn't perfect but I still have her. I just have to figure out some way to suck this down and deal with it in a way that isn't harmful or hurtful.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

UN,
Sucking this down sounds really unhealthy. Getting her into a good cardio workout routine with you might help her deal with the stress a lot better. Playing a computer game might feel good "in the moment" but produces no endorphines to help with tomorrow. As for living in a sexless marriage - I have no idea how the two of you interact. It sounds like you have a high desire to please and she has gotten used to doing very little for you. If she has energy to do everything she "wants" then it is pretty obvious where your needs are on her priority list. 

Most of the posts from guys who are in technically sexless marriages sound very similar to each other. Just as most of the posts from guys in highly sexual posts sound similar to each other, and totally different than the posts by sexless guys. 

Read atholk, BBW and learn what they do.



unbelievable said:


> Mem,
> 
> We have no kids together (mine are grown). She works as a public school teacher in the inner city. Right now is worse than usual for her because school recently started and things are hectic. She doesn't deal well with changes and the first of the school year is always chaotic. During the school year, I don't expect much out of her on school days. She comes home exhausted. She comes home wound up like a Swiss watch. I fix her supper and she basically rests, watching TV and working or playing Farmtown on her laptop. She's somewhat more available for sex in the summer but it's never more often than once every two weeks or so. I do know that some people with Bipolar can't even hold down a job. She manages to do a job that would drive most people to drink. I know I'd rather deal with criminals on my job than some of the kids and parents she has to contend with. I know she has psych challenges and I don't expect her to function great all the time or to function as a completely well person any of the time. Some people have wives who can't walk or see. Some have wives with terminal illnesses. My only complaint is that I rarely have sexual moments with my wife. Yes, it's a problem and "yes" it drives me to the point of wanting to scream, but when I look at what drama other people deal with, we are pretty blessed. We both have jobs, are pretty healthy, bills paid, a little scratch in the bank, car runs fine. A friend of our's just buried her husband. My wife isn't perfect but I still have her. I just have to figure out some way to suck this down and deal with it in a way that isn't harmful or hurtful.


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## andromeda (Mar 16, 2010)

I didn't read all the responses but I wanted to say that I've had this problem for years. BUT(and this is huge) I read a lot of books on marriage and men and women, etc and I knew that sex is a very different 'need' where men are concerned. I learned that it was biological and that we truly are created differently. Honestly, who knows why, but we are! 

Anyway, I would still have sex with my husband at least 2x a week unless it was my cycle time and then it would be once a week. I even made an effort to sometimes lend him a 'hand' if my cycle was getting in the way. And, I have to admit that sometimes I was bored to tears and thinking that I'd just rather be asleep but my marriage and my husband's happiness were/are important to me. But, at other times, I found that I enjoyed the sex and enjoyed the fact that I loved my husband and that he was enjoying me. That was really important to me: I didn't have sex for me directly but it became beneficial to our marriage because sex truly is a huge part of being married and it brings us closer to the spouses we love.

I think there needs to be efforts made on her part even if she doesn't value sex in the relationship for her needs, but she needs to see how it is valuable for her husband(you). Have you thought about therapy? What about a book about relationships? Does any of this concern her at all or is she being passive aggressive with her actions? I'm really sorry you are dealing with this and I hope you guys can find some common ground.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I think her only concern regarding the issue is that sometimes I have the bad manners of mentioning it and that annoys her. We haven't been to therapy. It's something she really doesn't seem to be interested in discussing at all, so it'd be a little tough to get her to therapy.


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

andromeda said:


> But, at other times, I found that I enjoyed the sex and enjoyed the fact that I loved my husband and that he was enjoying me. That was really important to me: I didn't have sex for me directly but it became beneficial to our marriage because sex truly is a huge part of being married and it brings us closer to the spouses we love.
> 
> I think there needs to be efforts made on her part even if she doesn't value sex in the relationship for her needs, but she needs to see how it is valuable for her husband(you). Have you thought about therapy? What about a book about relationships? Does any of this concern her at all or is she being passive aggressive with her actions? I'm really sorry you are dealing with this and I hope you guys can find some common ground.



I AGREE TOTALLY WITH THIS STATEMENT!! Most good men will do absolutely WHAT it takes to please their wives (even at our own inconvenience). Here you have a guy who is willing to do whatever it takes but she will not even TRY!!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I have to say, you are one very patient, understanding man.

As the female side of a similar situation (physical medical issues are involved that cannot be helped), I totally understand the need to feel that closeness with your spouse. When they deny you that closeness, regardless of the reason, you become resentful and it does affect your self-esteem in some way - hard not too.

I take medication for depression, but yet I still desire and want my husband. My daughter is bi-polar and also takes medication for that, but she still desires and wants her husband - I think there is MORE going on here than just her bi-polar, medications and depression. Maybe getting to the "root" of the problem might help - but of course that's difficult when she won't talk about it - amazes me sometimes that women think that if they just ignore a problem, it will somehow magically go away.

Good luck!


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## Zammo (Aug 9, 2010)

She's not even trying. She is being shockingly selfish.

Life's too short for this guy's unfortunate situation.

A marriage without sex is either a legalized friendship or a legalized rivalry.

He should go to Afghanistan, make a bucket of money, hide it... and divorce her from over there.

Then he can return with a fresh start and start dating unselfish women.

Harsh? Yes.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

:iagree: with Zammo.

I don't think she's trying either...guess she thinks you will just "stick it out" and leave her alone - if that's the case, she needs to be single, then she won't have to worry about any pressure on her from you or any other "man."


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> She works as a public school teacher in the inner city. Right now is worse than usual for her because school recently started and things are hectic. She doesn't deal well with changes and the first of the school year is always chaotic. During the school year, I don't expect much out of her on school days. She comes home exhausted. She comes home wound up like a Swiss watch.


I read in another post that you are a cop. That is also a high stress job. What happens on days when you come home from work stressed to the breaking point?



unbelievable said:


> I fix her supper and she basically rests, watching TV and working or playing Farmtown on her laptop.


Does she expect this of you ever night? If so, what would happen if you came home one night and said, "Honey, I had a really bad day today. I need you to make dinner for me while I sit down and relax for a bit. 



unbelievable said:


> My only complaint is that I rarely have sexual moments with my wife. Yes, it's a problem and "yes" it drives me to the point of wanting to scream, but when I look at what drama other people deal with, we are pretty blessed. We both have jobs, are pretty healthy, bills paid, a little scratch in the bank, car runs fine. A friend of our's just buried her husband. My wife isn't perfect but I still have her. I just have to figure out some way to suck this down and deal with it in a way that isn't harmful or hurtful.


You are a mirror image of me about six months ago. Very similar situations. Let me see if I can hit on what the problem is. Your wife doesn't want to have sex with you, for whatever reason. She knows you want more because you have told her. She won't give you more. She might for a little while after one of yoru "talks" but that will fade after a week or three.

The problem is this. She is very comfortable in the relationship WITHOUT sex. Right now, she knows if she doesn't have sex with you, you still aren't going anywhere. She has no incentive to have sex with you. All you will do is complain about it and she can ignore it because she doesn't want to do it.

I'll go so far as to say that she probably never does anything she doesn't want to. You however are probably doing all kinds of things you really don't want to do, all in the hopes that if you do these things for her she will bless you with sex.

She won't. What you need to do is decide is how important sex in marriage is to you. If it is not so important that you would be willing to end the marriage over it, then you need to figure out how to cope without becoming passive aggressive and taking out YOUR problem on her. Ultimately, this is YOUR problem. You can not change her. You can only change yourself. If no sex is a deal breaker then you need to sit her down and say, 
"Honey, I love you, and I want to stay with you, however, the current state of our sex life is unacceptable to me. Here are my expectations for intimacy and want I need from our marriage to remain. Then list what it is YOU need from the relationship. then go from there. However, if you go this route, you had better damned well be ready to step up and walk away.

At some point in your life you are going to have to put you first or you will be miserable. Right now, it seems as though she comes before you in everything, including marital needs. She has no problem looking out for her needs, you should have no problem looking out for yours. I will also say that if you express your needs to your wife and she's not willing to even make an effort, then you shouldn't be there.

At this point in your marriage you think you've tried everything, and to this point you know everything that will not work.

They only thing you haven't tried is giving her the incentive to change. If the incentive isn't enough to affect change, you are in a dead passionless marriage anyway. All you have to do at that point if locate your balls and call it quits.

Sorry for the long post.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Boogsie said:


> If no sex is a deal breaker then you need to sit her down and say,
> "Honey, I love you, and I want to stay with you, however, the current state of our sex life is unacceptable to me. Here are my expectations for intimacy and want I need from our marriage to remain. Then list what it is YOU need from the relationship. then go from there. However, if you go this route, you had better damned well be ready to step up and walk away.


 I SOOO agree with all this last poster said. :iagree: 

The question is : Can you live in a dead passionless marraige for the rest of your life ? Is she worth THIS much to you, and your needs & happiness worth SO little? You have said a # of times in different posts, I will never leave her. I think she knows that ALL TOO WELL. And therein lies the problem.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I made a promise. I didn't know at the moment I made that promise whether she might someday be disabled, disfigured, or nutty as an outhouse rat. I promised to deal through whatever. I'll keep my word as long as it's humanly possible to do so.
If I come home stressed, I deal with it. "Yes", I pretty much take care of the evening meals every night. I don't know that she expects it but if I don't, she'll end up waiting till she feels hungry and she'll grab just whatever to eat. She just doesn't seem to think about food. No real planning for meals.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Had a surprisingly calm conversation with her and some nice, intimate/sexual time. Thanks for listening to me and for all the great advise! I feel much better.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm going to address both of your last posts. I may be off base, but I doubt it. When I read your posts, I see and hear myself.



unbelievable said:


> I made a promise. I didn't know at the moment I made that promise whether she might someday be disabled, disfigured, or nutty as an outhouse rat. I promised to deal through whatever. I'll keep my word as long as it's humanly possible to do so.
> If I come home stressed, I deal with it. "Yes", I pretty much take care of the evening meals every night. I don't know that she expects it but if I don't, she'll end up waiting till she feels hungry and she'll grab just whatever to eat. She just doesn't seem to think about food. No real planning for meals.


Ok, you made a promise. I'm going to assume you are talking about your wedding vows. She made that same promise. Her not meeting your needs, even after you've expressed them to her in the past, is her not keeping her vows. Are you saying she can break her vows when ever she wants, but you are expecting yourself to suffer and not do the same?

Let me put it to you this way. If you stay in a marriage you are unhappy with you will start to resent your wife. You have already started that, or you wouldn't be here. If you don't confront your wife on this problem that resentment will grow into hatred. You will waste years of your life secretly cultivating hatred and your wife will notice but not know why. Sure, you've "talked" to her about it in the past with the "honey why don't we have more sex" talks, but then you let it go and don't bring it up for another six months, all the while, she's happy with the relationship and doesn't think anything is wrong. Why is that? Because you won't confront the issue head on. 

Sure, you will sit down and have nice calm talks and maybe even cry, and she'll promise to try harder. You will think you've made progress, but when the sex falls off after 2 weeks to 2 months, you will be sex-raging again until you sit down and have another "talk" with her, all the while making sure you don't do anything to hurt her fragile feelings. This cycle will repeat until 1) she can't take any more of your passive aggressive bull, or 2) until you finally pop out of frustration, resentment, and hate.

Now, what I want you to do is this:

If what I've just laid out is close the mark read it again, and do the following:

1) Read what I wrote again, not as if I were talking about you, but if I was describing myself, which I was. If that is you I described, then you are every bit as pathetic as I was.

2) Go find your balls. I had to find mine. I was a doormat and let my wife walk all over me. Women do NOT want to sleep with doormats. Your spouse is not a king or queen, prince or princess. Your spouse should meet your needs simply because they are your needs and they WANT to make you happy.

3) In the same breath as #2, your wife can not make you happy. Only you can do that. You have to put YOUR needs first. Not hers. It is HER job to make sure HER needs are met, and YOUR job to make sure YOUR needs are met. You are the key to your happiness. If you aren't happy in your relationship and are fairly certain you never will be after trying, you should leave.




unbelievable said:


> Had a surprisingly calm conversation with her and some nice, intimate/sexual time. Thanks for listening to me and for all the great advise! I feel much better.


Don't go anywhere! The ride isn't over yet. I'll bet my next paycheck this was "shut him up so he'll leave me alone for another month" sex. I went though this for 3 years. Conversation after conversation after conversation for 3 years. I got the same answer every time. "It's not you, it's me." "I'll try harder." "I wouldn't care if I never had sex again."

Sex would be better for 2 weeks to a month (of course it was almost always duty sex where you could tell she didn't want to be there) then it would drop off back to once every month or four. She always knew when it was time too. I figured that out because as my need for intimacy grew I would get quiet and snappy and generally not fun to be around. She would sleep with me and things would be better for her for a while. 

My wife enjoys the financial safety and security I provide and did exactly what she had to do to maintain the marriage.

Then one day, I must have been looking under the couch or something, because, lo and behold, I found my balls.

I told her what I said in my earlier post. It boiled down to, I'm not living like this, so unless things change to my liking, I'm out of here. She protested, she ranted, she raved, because I just upset her applecart.

I told her I was no longer going to be her emotional whipping boy, fetching boy, and the person who agrees with her just to keep the peace. If she said something that pissed me off, i was going to call her on it. I also told her I expect sex once, maybe twice a week and from now on she was actually going to show up ready to actively participate.

I let her know that if we couldn't come to a mutually agreeable solution that I was willing to walk and I was no long will to go unfullfilled in marriage.

We still have issues we are working through, and I can't yet say if we will stay married, but I do know that I will never again be unhappy in a relationship and wast another 15 years of my life. If you are the same kind of spineless, ball-less, nice-guy I was, you are looking at the same path I took.

Sorry for the long post.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I think her only concern regarding the issue is that sometimes I have the bad manners of mentioning it and that annoys her. We haven't been to therapy. It's something she really doesn't seem to be interested in discussing at all, so it'd be a little tough to get her to therapy.


Then go alone, and let her know you are going. it will send a message to her that you feel this is a very serious issue.

Therapy will give you the means to (a) live with this situation, (b) help you change her for the better or (c) give you the ability to leave the marriage if you have to.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I treat her like a queen, deny her nothing, do most of the chores, treat her with respect at all times, compliment her daily. What gives?


Somehow I missed that line in your original post. Read my last post. Tell me, if you had a woman following you everywhere, fawning over you, at your beck and call, doing everything you need done before you can think of it, would you want to sleep with her?

To sum it all up, your wife won't sleep with you because she has no respect for you. You treat her like a queen which means you never question her and will rarely ever disagree with her and if something bothers you you won't say a word.

Why? Are you afraid of her? You afraid she will stop giving you sex that you already aren't getting?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> And Scannerguard, your take on mental illness is quite offensive and right off base. You need to do a bit more reading, young man.


Okay, yes, what I said could be offensive you didn't know me and I admit, I didn't put all of the disclaimers in there.

Let me say this. . .I *have *read a bit on the subject, medical journals and one study demonstrated 2 groups - I believe the groups suffered from moderate depression.

Group 1 got exercise, I beleive more than 20 minutes/day x 5 days/week.

Group 2 got Prozac.

Both groups did *equally* as well in their depression questionnaire studies. I could be wrong in that I'd have to look up the study and see if it was moderate or mild depression and if the med was Prozac (I think it was).

Now. . .is Prozac a very potent anti-psychotic, anti-depressive medicine? No. . .I am not a psychiatrist but I suppose the med. is prescribed for mild to moderate depression so that sampling group was biased for that type of depression.

To contrast, I think of Billy Joel, who had to be inpatient hospitalized for depression a few times in his life.

It's very real. I realize that.

But I think as a society we overmedicalize depression too and that does nothing to help the person with it, nor the family member, in this case the husband, who has to live in a sterile marriage because well, "My wife has an illness."

Ever read the journals on the depressive medication and illness? Ask any doctor what causes depression. What will you get? The medicines are supposed to rebalance some "imbalance" in the brain.

Now, what that brain chemical imbalance is. . .well, ask your doctor? Serotonin maybe. MOst of the time, they just shrug their shoulders - "I dunno, there's a 'chemical' imbalance." Well really? There's an imbalance and this medicine is an "imbalance correcting medicine then?" 

After that line of questioning, you can expect an annoyed, "Well, do you want help or not?"

You see the dysfunction here?

Believe me, trust me, I am not Tom Cruising on you here and going freakazoid on psychiatry but honestly, just from hearing the report on his wife - on the internet, not cooking, not interested in sex. . .I honestly think 10 weeks in Boot Camp would do her mental and emotional and physical health more good than any Medicalized Diagnosis or Treatment and no, again, I am not a freakazoid alternative new age type of patient or doctor. My kids are vaccinated, they have taken antibiotics, they go to their pediatrician, I even take Crestor becuase it works better than Omega-3's.

Just a hunch from afar - she needs to stop being coddled.

Best medicine for her.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

And yes, Boogsie and I are on the same page.

For me, my wife kept me around for "fatherhood." I am quite certain I was going to be disposed of when the last kid turned 18 (our youngest is 2).

I saved her trouble and 16 years of wasted life after finding my balls.

She doesn't respect you. . .she doesn't think you'll "Pull the trigger."

I begged my wife to not call my bluff on that. I begged her to come to therapy. She refused.

So I drew.

But I will say this, you and only you, can decide what's acceptable.

You seem to note that it's acceptable to live in a sterile marriage, that it's just a little uncomfortable. If that's the case, I totally respect that too. It's your marriage. Not mine. Not Boogsies. But I do agree that this just won't go away with age either.

One day you'll both just note that everything has been sterile and gee, where did my youth go? I know I wasted my 30's (not completely, I hate to frame my ending marriage that way) with my stb-x in the sex department.

I wasn't going to waste my 40's.

Good luck.


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## Longtime Husband (Dec 14, 2009)

:iagree:

The previous posters (Boogsie and SG) nailed it, IMO.

I respect the OP's desire to remain faithful to his vows. And to allow yourself to be treated the way you are while holding yourself to such a high standard is NOT the way to gain anyone's respect. Ya gotta become more demanding....you just DO.

People would burn alive in house fires while watching TV but for the discomfort that forces them to get the hell out & do something about it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

One more thing, since this topic rings so close to home for all of us. . .and I'll probably start a parallel thread on this in the Divorce Forum but. ..

I hate to say this. . .

But when the marriage is ailing and there is no intimacy, I suppose it's the man's job to be the "man" and put it out of it's misery. Take it back behind the shed so to speak. . .

My stb-x noted that she didn't have the balls to end the marriage for a long time, she was scared, she didn't love me, but didn't want to work on it. Didn't want to make that choice to love someone.

So. . .and this is, again, a topic for discussion. . .but I think it's easier for women to just say: 

"The SOB left me!" 

rather than admit they drove the man out of the marriage. And she may be trying to drive you out. . .just letting you know that. They then can join the "First Wives Club" and other stuff that women do socially in divorce. They just identify with the victim mindset more (yes, I know this is going to irk the women here and I am grossly, GROSSLY generalizing but I think it's true).

In other words, she may waiting for you to the dirty deed like mine was.

This is why in divorce it's really no easier for the leaver than the left, because often the leaver didn't really want to do it, be the bad-guy/gal.

Look, I really hope she does a turnabout here - a MD gets her on a hormone, she reads a self-help book, whatever but you do know the odds are against that, don't you? Especially without a timeline/ultimatum?


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

So she says "yeah whatever" to your sex once a week request. 
She says "you must like being pushed away" 

I am no expert on pschology so don't know what being married to a bipolar person should entail. It would seem that your wife does not care about you or your needs. Is the lack of sex it? Granted that is a big one. Does she have other redeaming qualities or things that she does/for, to, with you that would make her a good wife? You have failed to mention any. I think it is bad enough she seems to deny you intimacy then makes you feel guilty about it "all you care about" comments. 

Agree with others. She is neglecting her vows and you need to call her out on this. If she is not "feelin' it" can't she go down on you or something. There are women out there that do that for there men unfortunately your wife seems to think that lack of libido is an exuce. There are times when i would rather stick needles in my eye than spend money on this or on that when my wife wants to. There are tons of stuff i hate to do but, i make myself interested in for the sake of my wife and marriage. 

Sex is an expected part of marriage on a many levels. Not providing it I believe it is one that is a legal basis for divorce. Don't let her manipulate you into making you feel bad or unreasonable with her sarchastic remarks. 

The fact that "it will be hard to get her to therapy" says it all. That is SHE DOESN'T GIVE A FU#^ ABOUT YOUR NEEDS. 

go to therapy with our without her
chris taylor said it best
Therapy will give you the means to (a) live with this situation, (b) help you change her for the better or (c) give you the ability to leave the marriage if you have to. 

I will be harsh to get you off your nice guy "i took my vows bull****" . if i were your buddy i would punch you in the face to get your attention because you need it. 

Missleading you into marriage with the notion that you are not married so....is bull. Grow a pair. Take a stand. Remember, you deserve to be happy.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Quite honestly, I've got a good woman. She's pretty much overwhelmed right now and doing what she can. It aint great and it aint marvelous, but it's not entirely deliberate indifference. It's not even 6:00pm and she's been sleeping for the last hour. She got home at 4:30pm, completely wiped out. Depression is real. Bipolar is real. She's got some weird chronic ovarian issues that I don't understand but that I know causes her great pain, especially around her time of the month (which happens to be now). If she were high functioning in all other aspects, I would figure it's just me.
That isn't the case. Disorders adversely affect peoples' lives otherwise, they'd be known as blessings. As difficult as things sometimes are, I know every night when I go to work that the next time I see her, I could be cut, shot full of holes, or a drooling vegetable without chance of improvement. This woman isn't a quitter. She kept a hamster alive 12 years. She rescues dogs nobody wants and keeps them alive an average of 17 years. She patiently and faithfully waited for me through two combat deployments. I aint going anywhere and she isn't either. She does what she can. Sometimes she's able to give more than others. She didn't ask to be sick. She's trotted back and forth to various docs, begging for relief. She's tried every concoction available to raise her libido. She doesn't enjoy feeling non-sexual any more than I enjoy being turned away. Nobody likes to feel as if they are disappointing or not "good enough". I'm sure being married to me isn't always tea with the queen, either. You know, there soldiers coming home to their wives without arms, legs, sometimes without recognizable faces. Some will never be able to have sex again in any form. Some probably don't even know they have wives or kids. Wives and husbands get their cop spouses back in similar conditions. Most of these wives don't run out and get divorced because their spouses aren't as handsome or as loving as they used to be. I absolutely know that as long as I have the breath of life in me, my wife will stick with me and do the best she can. I could slip out today and find some woman to knock boots with but I would be hard pressed to find a woman that would wipe my drool, feed me mush with a spoon, and change my diapers for the next 40 years. In spite of my frustrations, I'm better off staying put and working through this. I'm 49 and I've been around. I've had more than my share of sex with far too many women (before I got married). I wouldn't swap my wife for any woman or combination of women on this planet, even with her quirks, illnesses, wrinkles, or extra pounds. I want to improve the relationship, not euthanize it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Unbelievable,

I don't think any of us were saying (although I suppose we are all being blunt as a club) that perhaps she isn't a good woman. I am sure she is.

And maybe I am applying a little too much "religious overtone" to this, when in reality, I am probably the least reverent guy out there.

Even if she is a good person, even if you LOVE her (and nothing says you have to stop), you do realize that without sex, the marriage is not in a state of consummation and on many levels (not legal), invalid?

It's invalid sexually, intimately, emotionally, psychologically, and even socially, as in society, marriage is the one sanctioned "institution" in which humans are SUPPOSED to be sexual. Although you don't think about it, when you walk down the street and see Joe Schmoe and Sally Schmoe, you assume they are sexually active and that's cool.

(rather than Joe Schmoe and Sally Snow who are fooling around at work - that's not a sanctioned sexual relationship)

I'm sure none of us like to think about it (I know I don't) but I am sure Barack and Michelle Obama have sex. There's walking proof of it.

If you are not, for whatever excuse, valid excuse (illness) or invalid excuse (I'm tired), then there is no marriage.

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't expect my wife to care for me if I was a vegetable. Personally, I would prefer a dignified euthanasia but I know we are getting way off topic with that. But to keep it on marriage, I would have to say that without a sexual relationship, I would give my blessing for her to dissolve the marriage and make me a ward of the state, if she couldn't euthanize me in a dignified fashion.

Because my life is over, I wouldn't expect hers to be. I wouldn't want my family ruined financially and emotionally because of it. They need to move on.

I am trying to not to deviate from the topic - no, if I may speak for the OP's, we don't think she's a bad woman. Heck, we don't even know her but with each sexless day, your marriage is becoming more and more invalid.

That's how serious this is IMHO.

Maybe it sucks in a way. . .like how can so much revolve around a little humping. . .but I believe it's a truth you both have to confront.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sex is a big deal but it isn't the only or even the most important deal. Besides, I'm not doing completely without. From a practical standpoint, nobody spends the majority of their week knocking boots. It's a problem and we'll have to talk about it, work on it, etc. Y'all have given me some great advise and I really appreciate it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> I've tried to wear a grin for nearly 8 years of sex drought, one spell lasted 6 months.





> Besides, I'm not doing completely without.


Okay, now we are getting somewhere.

Care to clarify?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

We have some sort of sexual activity about every 3 weeks. During the summer, it was about every 2 weeks. Actual full intercourse, maybe every couple months or so. It sounds awful and it is, but it's not exactly nothing.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Ah, okay, well. . .thanks for being honest and forthright. 

Not that I am an expert but okay, the good news. . .I would have to agree with you and retract what I said and say the marriage is in a state of consummation. (if I were a pretend priest or a judge/lawyer judging this at a tribunal or a hearing)

Bad news though. . .well, it's barely from what I know. She's essentially just barely having enough sex to keep it in a state of consummation. So, as I am sure you know. . .the marriage is dysfunctional in that regard. (duh).

Think of this whole subject this way (and this, once again, is just how I understand it). . .the sex in marriage is/was supposed to be frequent enough to produce offspring. If you are still in reproductive years, the sex should be often enough to do this. Since male sperm lives in the womb about 2 days, well, about every other day is considered necessary/recommended when couples are trying to conceive.

Interestingly enough, Dr. Oz recommends monogamous sex 2-3x/week for anti-aging, along with 7-8 hours of sleep per night. That is what is considered medically "healthy" and optimal.

The point of my diatribe here?

Let's flip this. . .let's say *you *only gave her intercourse when she was 23 and was trying to have kids 1x every 3 months and "other sexual activity" in between.

How do you think that would fly in front of a judge or a religious tribunal? (wherever your values lie?) How would you think that would fly in front of the average 23 year old female trying to have kids?

It wouldn't.

She would have a legitimate legal or religious case for invalidating the marriage, annulling it, stating that she wanted to have kids.

A priest would wave his hands, declare the marriage invalid and bless the both of you and kick your asses out the door.

In a way, it's really no different because as a man, you could lay claim to the same thing. I have a friend who is 41 and he wants kids now and is looking to marry a 23-26 year old for that reason (partly - he says he identifies with that generation more ). So, if she refused to have sex with him after the marriage, is he somehow stuck with her? Because he "vowed?" No. . .it can be legally and religiously annulled on those groudns and declared invalid.

I don't know.

I guess I am preaching to the choir here a bit but I am trying to put your vows and what is demanded of you into perspective here, at least what I have academically studied on the subject.

Because Dude. . .I've been there, done that, and I have your t-shirt. It ain't fun. I'm sure if I were inclined, I could go plea my case before a tribunal and have my marriage annulled. It seems very odd. . .like how could you declare a 15 year marriage as if it never existed?

Because there was no sex for very long (longer than you so don't feel embarrassed, I'm more embarrassed). That's why. It wasn't in a state of consummation.

It never existed. 

What existed was some kind of legal partnership that needs legal sorting to be fair and equitable (divorce).

I'm not sure if I am getting through or not. . .remember the good news/bad news. Your marriage is teetering in my amateurish, humble opinion.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Had a wonderful, loving weekend with some quite exemplary sex. That's twice in a week, an achievement which hasn't occurred in well over a year! Other than the sex, just had many, great tender moments with zero drama. 
Not sure if this was the key, but I stopped worrying about what I wasn't getting and focused instead on her. I told her I was very sorry that she had trouble feeling aroused because I had always found my constant attraction to her to be an amazing gift and wished all married folks could feel the same. Sounds a little cheesy but it was heartfelt and focusing on something else improved my overall outlook (and likely my disposition). Thanks for all the great advise and support!


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## narutoevil (Sep 13, 2010)

You missed on using such libido enhancer. we cannot stop from having low *libido*. But the solution their is to set our selves from stress and depressions. If cannot be cured try wyld natural, it is a natural herbal libido booster and enhancer. I have tried this before and my libido is now steady which is active and I can do sex every time I want to.


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

write more later but for now

Prostitutes do it for so many emotional reasons most of which is sad. They can mentally get ready to do it to get money but the closeness and the intimacy mental and emotional that they need to have in receive it in a marriage is not there. That is how they do it. Especially when women seek that kind of life due to abuse in their background. 


Judith


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Over the past couple weeks, things have been a bit better. Sex isn't any more frequent, really, but we have been spending more alone time together. Got my motorcycle road ready and we've been taking rides in the evenings. Seems to be a stress reliever for her and something we both look forward to. Lot less tension and a lot more tenderness between us. She can't do Farmtown on the back of a motorcycle or have lengthy phone calls with her girlfriends from work. When we're out on the bike, it's just us and that's kinda nice.


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

date nite for every one is vital for a woman and can enhance the more than just the tenderness-even calling her during the day and sending love notes etc. That helps in most ways among other ideas-to engage her in wanting sex. 

Judith


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