# Depression and indecision



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

For a LONG time I have been depressed and innefectual. I have luckily held onto decent paying jobs, despite a few hiccups between jobs. I've been devoted to raising my son and spending time with him but I know I could do so much better if my energy wasn't always depleted. I've been trying to understand this all, it has eaten into every aspect of my life, but I don't think it has consumed me yet. Separation took all the wind out of my sails and I talked to my doc about it - we came to a diagnosis of clinical depression. I am not on meds for this, but have found counseling and the shock of separation have gotten me looking forward to healing myself.

One thing that has bothered me throughout this depression, especially when I read all about manning up and such, is that confidence seems to mean knowing what you want in life. For the past couple years anytime I was asked that I would draw a big blank, go into submit mode and hope someone would issue a command. I'm not sure if this means I'm codependent, submissive, beta, whatever.

Just a few minutes ago was reading a post on the anxiety and depression board on TAM and I realized I DO know what I want, and have actually accomplished so much of it already. The indecision has always been what "new" things do I want in life? And the truth is I have everything I need and most of what I wanted... I want a house of my own and the pride that goes along with owning real estate, I want a son to teach and instill self-worth in, I want a career that is rewarding, I want a wife who is loving that I cherish, I could go on and on. Some of these things have started to escape me, but I can keep accomplishing. I guess that is a part of what causes my indecision now, is that many goals I've had for so long I've achieved I just need to let go and make some new goals. I don't know what those are yet, but now I can let go of yesterday's hard work maybe I can find my new objectives in life and remember to keep cycling the inventory.

Anyways, just felt like getting this off my chest.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Make a bucket list! Things to do before you "kick the bucket". Maybe 10 or 20 things you always wanted to do. Write it down, put it on the fridge and have at it. It can be something fairly simple like learn to kayak or something more challenging like learn to paint. Places you always wanted to see or that novel you wanted to write. Reconnecting with your high school buddies or climbing a mountain. Anything that sparks your interest. Those are goals.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

If it helps any I did my graduate thesis on depression and decision making. What I found out in my study of clinically depressed 'subjects' (psych inpatients with major diagnosis of depression without psychosis) is that these patients invariably made BETTER that is more accurate decisions based on realistic odds than the 'normal' control subjects. But, they hedged more. So I think this was a reaction to being prepared for random chance events outside of the expected outcome. I was working with rolls of 5 dice (expected outcome is a bell curve around a total of 17/18 dots) but if you apply this to life it makes sense. Right now you are reacting to a random chance event outside of your locus of control. Most people are risk-averse. So that added to the effects of depression, is as you noted, difficult to ignore.

I think the advice of a bucket list sounds like fun (from Brighteyes). I like to do things where I have walk-away skills and where success is measured by how something feels in the process, not necessarily the outcome, and it's not quite about winning or losing but progressive overall gains. Sometimes just going to a museum of art to a specific exhibit and focusing in on one artist and his or her life can be rewarding. It doesn't have to be goal - oriented, other than making a commitment to the one activity for however long and being open-minded about it. Like active meditation. Decision making where decision making doesn't really matter, all outcomes will be at least acceptable over the status quo. Yes, I guess what I am saying here is to STACK THE DECK DELIBERATELY FOR YOURSELF at least for a while.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> ...Sometimes just going to a museum of art to a specific exhibit and focusing in on one artist and his or her life can be rewarding. It doesn't have to be goal - oriented, other than making a commitment to the *one activity for however long and being open-minded about it*. Like active meditation. Decision making where decision making doesn't really matter, all outcomes will be at least acceptable over the status quo. Yes, I guess what I am saying here is to STACK THE DECK DELIBERATELY FOR YOURSELF at least for a while.


Now that is is the kind of useful advice I needed when I posted my comment. I like the bucket list idea, but I would literally start writing things down and wouldn't stop until there is about 10,000 items on it, and then trying to prioritize it would be overwhelming and just shut me down.

There is SO MUCH I'd LIKE to do, that I just can't figure out what I will do. A couple weekends ago I went to the farmers market with my son and as soon as I get in the place I just have to get through it as fast as I can, take a glance at everything but look at nothing. Certainly wouldn't actually buy something unless say my son wants ice cream then I'd easily find a place to get some. I'm not sure if this stems from my perfectionist nature (I long ago abandoned my attempts at even shooting for perfection so everything just bugs me) perhaps I'm even almost OCD about it.

I've often made attempts to just focus on a single thing, but hearing it from someone else may be just enough for me to restart my decision making ability again... I do know that not having my FXW's best interest to also contend with I'll be much less reluctant.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Lon,
I can tell you one activity that you are engaging in, you are here on this forum helping others with their marriages. I have read many of your posts and you often know exactly how to connect with others (especially other men who are struggling with losing their wife).

You also seem like a concerned and loving father for your son. Yes, maybe it would be nice to have some more energy to spend with your son, but I think you are doing your best given the circumstances.

Just thought I would comment on my (and many others) perspective on your life. You are making a difference in the lives of many!


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Also, as you like to learn try doing something completely new. Take a fun class at your community college. Take a ballroom dance class. Join a bike club. Doing something that is fun and allows you to exercise can be very helpful for the depression.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Lon, helping others will help yourself get unstuck.
I think I'm dealing very well with getting unstuck, but I still have issues. One of these is having more energy to go the distance with my kids. One thing I wanted to do this summer was to take them fishing, but the mere thought of being responsible for taking a fish off a hook was a huge impediment, even though I knew I could do it, I was having trouble getting over that psychological hump. Yesterday the son of an acquaintance was fishing after community swim lessons, I was reading "The Places that Scare You" on the dock in my safe little chair. The day before a guy had come by and shown this boy how to unhook his fish, but was not available that day. The mother, my acqaintance, was not going to do it. The boy looked at me and I said, okay, I will be your helper for this. It was so easy! Plus I had compassion for the fish. I accepted its present suffering (fish don't actually feel pain the same way humans do...their neurology is designed for them to have bites taken out of them and still get on with life in the usual way...) and unhooked it, no problem putting my finger and thumb into its mouth to hold it firmly...

So today and from here on out I am unstuck. My kids will bring their fishing poles today to the dock. 

That's what I mean about being open to the experience. Life will give you exactly what you need, when you need it. The important thing is to recognize it.

I'm going to get myself an ice cream today and sit out on the plaza in the city in between my volunteer work and dance class today. By myself. So that I can be open to whatever I experience while sitting there. Even if it is unpleasant. This is an act of courage. These acts don't have to be large. Sitting in a park by oneself is an age-old Zen experience of building up staying power and centering. It is the magic of the park that once one person starts doing this, others join in. It's a bit like social yoga. Only more open than signing up for a yoga class and going. There is no shame in publicly taking care of your emotional needs. It is very empowering. I guess I suggested an art museum because you can wander...also because you can wander, you are in control of if you stay or move around...so when you stay in one place, it is more empowering than say if you stay in your seat during a concert or a movie. 

The reason I am telling you my intention this afternoon for ice cream is so that when you are doing something on your own for yourself, you can have the knowledge that this is a normal thing to do, that other people do it too. If more people did this, and followed their true intentions rather than what they thought they needed to do to not be lonely or afraid or uncertain, that is, if more people were able to work through fear and discomfort to have courage and inner confidence and self-awareness, overall there would be a big improvement in social experience. 

In our town there is a phenomena of sorts where people just end up at the same place at the same time...there is no communication needed in the formal sense. It is a little odd because with the lack of specific invites, we are left to herd behavior and to tap into our instincts. But, it works. It is one of those phenomena that can't really be explained by anything else other than humans are by nature, part of nature. It is too much thinking that clouds the issue of being where you need to be, when you need to be there, to connect with your herd or tribe or whatever else you want to call it. Consider how deer or bears or moose find their mates in the woods. It's by instinct and signalling. Do they think about it? Not overly consciously. If you get to a place where you can trust that, and tap into your basic human nature, you won't have too much indecision.

There is also a mythological string, that is used when going down an unknown path, so that you can get back to where you started. So before you go out to do something outside of your comfort zone, leave behind a place for you to come back to. Maybe leave music on in your home or make a dessert or dinner and put it in the fridge for when you get back, or leave out a movie or some easy tasks/chores to do when you get home. Or arrange to have a friend check in on you after your exploration adventure. That's your string, that gets you back to where you were, safely.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> Lon,
> I can tell you one activity that you are engaging in, you are here on this forum helping others with their marriages. I have read many of your posts and you often know exactly how to connect with others (especially other men who are struggling with losing their wife).
> 
> You also seem like a concerned and loving father for your son. Yes, maybe it would be nice to have some more energy to spend with your son, but I think you are doing your best given the circumstances.
> ...


Brian thank you for this acknowledgement. I definitely can empathize with other men who have been betrayed and coping with the loss of something they valued so much. Every time I see another bad news story come up it is an oppotunity to learn a little bit more about myself. I'm already very introspective and I have a feeling that it sometimes blinds me to the truth - I mostly just solve problems in my mind, so when I start getting away from reality all that effort becomes irrelavent, so through all of this I'm just trying to get back to reality. I'm not here to tell people what to do, just to listen and share my experiences in the hopes it can help someone else through the pain.

I am glad I started this thread because it is helping me on my quest to restart my creative center, the place where action comes from for me. It has also helped me see what specific things I can do to involve myself in life again. Now its just a matter of getting enrolled and actually DOING something otherwise another month or year will have gone by before I realize it!


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Lon said:


> I am glad I started this thread because it is helping me on my quest to restart my creative center, the place where action comes from for me. It has also helped me see what specific things I can do to involve myself in life again. Now its just a matter of getting enrolled and actually DOING something otherwise another month or year will have gone by before I realize it!


It sounds like you have plenty ideas of what needs to be done. Now it is a matter of putting those ideas into action.


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