# Earning his love back



## Notalwaysstrong

Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened. 

My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area. 

We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer and we’ve been having ant problems. 

Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know. 

I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him. 

We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it. 

I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal. 

I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame


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## TDSC60

You are headed in the right direction. But I suggest you stop drinking...at least for a while. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and numbs the mind so you make stupid choices.

My wife got way to friendly while drinking. For our marriage to survive she had to agree to zero alcohol if I was not around.

You might want to consider being checked for STDs.

Some others will be along latter for some books for you to consider.

Be prepared for your husband to get really angry at some point.


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## personofinterest

> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.


First, this statement needs to be drastically amended:

I chose to allow touching, then I chose to kiss him, and then I continued and chose sex.

Also, definitely lose the word "mistake." When I added too much thyme to a recipe this weekend, that was a mistake. Cheating is absolutely a choice.

These may seem small, but the underlying attitude of "oops, I didn't mean to" minimizes it.

Be completely transparent. Make every part of your life available to your husband. If there were issues in your marriage, now is NOT the time to bring it up.

Unless you had an ongoing connection to this man, you are basically saying that one conversation where he touched you was enough to fall into bed. REALLY examine whether or not your interactions prior to this were too close. Really ask yourself why you allowed yourself to go this far. What boundaries do you need to make sure it never happens again?

Obviously, this couple has to be cut out of your life. Yes....they HAVE to be cut out of your life. You cannot ever see this man again.

You will get some harsh posts here. Try to find the grain of truth no matter how harsh the words.

And remember this: you CAN recover, and you CAN have a good marriage, and you CAN be a woman of integrity again. It takes work, but you are NOT cursed for life. However, you have a long time of hard work ahead of you.


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## ConanHub

What is the status with the "friend"?

He is obviously scum to do that to someone who trusted him.

I'm glad you were honest. That was definitely the first and hardest step.

Is there marriage counseling available in your area?

I would say cutting off the friendship with the a hole that helped you hurt your family is a must. His wife should know as well.

There are a couple of really good books that can help you to help your husband heal from your betrayal.

I will look them up but there are many posters who have them memorized.

Your attitude is a good sign. Much of the battle in reconciliation is the attitude of the wayward spouse.

You are owning your behavior which is very helpful.

How long ago did this happen and what has been some of your husband's reactions?


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## personofinterest

Linda McDonald - How to help your spouse heal from an affair

Shirley Glass - Not Just Friends

Willard Harley - Surviving an Affair


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## 269370

Which mistake did you make? Was there more than kissing and hugging? I personally think you should never have told him...but since it’s too late now, you just have to take one day at a time. If you haven’t slept with him, I’m sure you guys will be ok...and if you did, it will be difficult for him, but you still might be ok...
But yeah, you can’t really see the other couple again 
Have you felt attraction to him already beforehand? I mean usually people pull back in those situations...This seems a bit...almost planned.


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## Notalwaysstrong

TDSC60 said:


> You are headed in the right direction. But I suggest you stop drinking...at least for a while. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and numbs the mind so you make stupid choices.
> 
> My wife got way to friendly while drinking. For our marriage to survive she had to agree to zero alcohol if I was not around.
> 
> You might want to consider being checked for STDs.
> 
> Some others will be along latter for some books for you to consider.
> 
> Be prepared for your husband to get really angry at some point.


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## Notalwaysstrong

TDSC60 said:


> You are headed in the right direction. But I suggest you stop drinking...at least for a while. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and numbs the mind so you make stupid choices.
> 
> My wife got way to friendly while drinking. For our marriage to survive she had to agree to zero alcohol if I was not around.
> 
> You might want to consider being checked for STDs.
> 
> Some others will be along latter for some books for you to consider.
> 
> Be prepared for your husband to get really angry at some point.





Notalwaysstrong said:


> TDSC60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are headed in the right direction. But I suggest you stop drinking...at least for a while. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and numbs the mind so you make stupid choices.
> 
> My wife got way to friendly while drinking. For our marriage to survive she had to agree to zero alcohol if I was not around.
> 
> You might want to consider being checked for STDs.
> 
> Some others will be along latter for some books for you to consider.
> 
> Be prepared for your husband to get really angry at some point.
Click to expand...

You’re right the alcohol needs to go because it’s caused me problems before not with infidelity but with anger.


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## Notalwaysstrong

personofinterest said:


> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> 
> 
> First, this statement needs to be drastically amended:
> 
> I chose to allow touching, then I chose to kiss him, and then I continued and chose sex.
> 
> Also, definitely lose the word "mistake." When I added too much thyme to a recipe this weekend, that was a mistake. Cheating is absolutely a choice.
> 
> These may seem small, but the underlying attitude of "oops, I didn't mean to" minimizes it.
> 
> Be completely transparent. Make every part of your life available to your husband. If there were issues in your marriage, now is NOT the time to bring it up.
> 
> Unless you had an ongoing connection to this man, you are basically saying that one conversation where he touched you was enough to fall into bed. REALLY examine whether or not your interactions prior to this were too close. Really ask yourself why you allowed yourself to go this far. What boundaries do you need to make sure it never happens again?
> 
> Obviously, this couple has to be cut out of your life. Yes....they HAVE to be cut out of your life. You cannot ever see this man again.
> 
> You will get some harsh posts here. Try to find the grain of truth no matter how harsh the words.
> 
> And remember this: you CAN recover, and you CAN have a good marriage, and you CAN be a woman of integrity again. It takes work, but you are NOT cursed for life. However, you have a long time of hard work ahead of you.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted. I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.

We have cut them out and stopped all contact. 

I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.


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## ConanHub

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10129682-how-to-help-your-spouse-heal-from-your-affair

Here is a link to a book that has helped a lot of people in your situation.


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## Notalwaysstrong

ConanHub said:


> What is the status with the "friend"?
> 
> He is obviously scum to do that to someone who trusted him.
> 
> I'm glad you were honest. That was definitely the first and hardest step.
> 
> Is there marriage counseling available in your area?
> 
> I would say cutting off the friendship with the a hole that helped you hurt your family is a must. His wife should know as well.
> 
> There are a couple of really good books that can help you to help your husband heal from your betrayal.
> 
> I will look them up but there are many posters who have them memorized.
> 
> Your attitude is a good sign. Much of the battle in reconciliation is the attitude of the wayward spouse.
> 
> You are owning your behavior which is very helpful.
> 
> How long ago did this happen and what has been some of your husband's reactions?


This happened a month ago. My husband was very angry, then hurt. He told me he felt dead inside. He’s stated he’s happy that I’m getting counseling but it’s sucks that it was at his expense. He’s also told me that he feels double betrayed by not only me but his friend. 

I never get defensive with him but try to understand his pain and let him know how sorry I am for the choices I made.


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## Lostinthought61

Did your husband talk to him and tell his wife about his actions? cutting them out of your life is one thing but how was it left?


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## personofinterest

Lostinthought61 said:


> Did your husband talk to him and tell his wife about his actions? cutting them out of your life is one thing but how was it left?


This is a good question. His wife deserves to know as well.

However, that is up to your husband. Your focus should ABSOLUTELY be on your own marriage and helping your husband.


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## Notalwaysstrong

InMyPrime said:


> Which mistake did you make? Was there more than kissing and hugging? I personally think you should never have told him...but since it’s too late now, you just have to take one day at a time. If you haven’t slept with him, I’m sure you guys will be ok...and if you did, it will be difficult for him, but you still might be ok...
> But yeah, you can’t really see the other couple again
> Have you felt attraction to him already beforehand? I mean usually people pull back in those situations...This seems a bit...almost planned.
> 
> Definitely not planned. I never saw him in that way until that night. I was surprised by what was unfolding. It felt like an out of body experience almost like I was watching what was happening but not present in the moment. I ask myself everyday why did I not walk away and go inside and that’s why I have personally been seeking counseling to understand my whys.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

I don't think it would have happened with someone who wasn't as close and trusted.

Your affair partner was trusted and a close friend. Feelings of affection are normal.

Did he escalate the touching and kissing or were you the instigator?


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## 269370

Notalwaysstrong said:


> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.



The harshness can be quite mean though...

Just be yourself and try not to be in that situation again. I am not sure there’s much point in naval gazing: you will eventually rationalise something (i was bored, my husband didn’t pay me enough attention, I had low self esteem, I had a midlife crisis, my hormones were all over the place). Did you fancy the guy or not? You haven’t really answered that.* If you did, now you know what can happen and don’t do it again. Unless you want to. And don’t want the marriage/family.

Have you slept with him or was it just a kiss?

* Your husband will probably keep pestering you for the answer and no answer will be satisfactory for him so you might as well tell him honestly that you had feelings for the guy 


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## aine

Notalwaysstrong said:


> This happened a month ago. My husband was very angry, then hurt. He told me he felt dead inside. He’s stated he’s happy that I’m getting counseling but it’s sucks that it was at his expense. He’s also told me that he feels double betrayed by not only me but his friend.
> 
> I never get defensive with him but try to understand his pain and let him know how sorry I am for the choices I made.


I hope you or your BH told the other BS, I.e OM’s wife. She needs the know


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## 269370

So was it just a kiss then? 
You shouldn’t have told him...damn. 
I think I can understand how these things can happen because we are all a little bit animals - especially if it happened very quickly, before you could think - but your husband may not understand - he will want to know the reasons.

Your best bet is to just tell him that you were caught in the moment and were not thinking...This is difficult to believe because a person wouldn’t normally do that unless they felt strong attraction too.

A ‘normal’ reaction is to pull back. Happened to my wife once. Someone tried kissing her, she pulled back. (At least that’s what she told me and that’s ALL I NEED to know...).

You seem to have had almost a visceral response and couldn’t control yourself. Can you frame it as a ‘kiss of friendship’? I dunno. Minimising is not good either...But it’s just difficult to understand how this can happen without you actually having some kinds of feelings for the guy too.
If it happened how you say it happened, the ‘friend’ probably abused your friendship and took advantage. 
You really can only take all the blame if you actually had feelings for the person. And that is problematic in itself. 



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## wilson

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Definitely not planned. I never saw him in that way until that night. I was surprised by what was unfolding. It felt like an out of body experience almost like I was watching what was happening but not present in the moment. I ask myself everyday why did I not walk away and go inside and that’s why I have personally been seeking counseling to understand my whys.


It's unfortunate that you had to go through this to learn you had this weakness. It doesn't absolve you of what you did, but it's common for people's moral foundations to crumble in some situations. You need to take extra steps to ensure that you are not in any situations which could potentially lead to this, such as drinking with other people, being alone with another man, being involved in any sort of one-on-one conversation with a man (e.g. texting). And you can't make it anyone else's responsibility to keep you from getting into these situations. For example, if you're at a group dinner and people leave the table such that you're there alone with a man, you need to leave. You can't make it your husband's responsibility to babysit you to ensure you're never tempted. You have to ensure you are not in situations where you can be tempted.

Think about how a drug addict is when they are trying to recover. They know they can't trust themselves around the drug, so they have to take extraordinary precautions to keep themselves out of any situation which could even remotely lead to drug use. You need to view yourself in the same way. Don't put yourself in any situation which could lead to you being tempted.


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## StillSearching

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. *His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer* and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst *mistake* of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame


First....You probably have not come completely clean with your husband. 
We all know that.
You'd be the first WW in the last 10 years to do that....
That's the best way to start. 
Manipulating his behavior by withholding information under the guise of "Not hurting him any further".....Well that's not going to work long term.
Let him make a fully informed decision is your only saving grace.


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## Mr.Married

InMyPrime said:


> So was it just a kiss then?
> You shouldn’t have told him...damn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss* that led to me making the worst mistake of my life*


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## ConanHub

Mr.Married said:


> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss* that led to me making the worst mistake of my life*


Reading comprehension problems and chronic thread derailment plague this one....


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## 269370

Mr.Married said:


> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss* that led to me making the worst mistake of my life*



Yeah I dunno..it’s like a Dan Brown novel with those cliff hangers...Was the kiss the worst mistake or has something else happened too?
It’s a bit difficult to give advice not knowing the details...
If there was sex, it changes things...a bit.


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## 269370

ConanHub said:


> Reading comprehension problems and chronic thread derailment plague this one....




Good day to you too Sir 


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## Dyokemm

Really bad situation here.

OM’s BW really needs to be told as well if that hasn’t happened yet.

And you really need to dig into why you made these choices.

Frankly, you put far more than just your M on the line given the specific details of your situation.....

Intoxicated adults with children sleeping nearby in the house.....imagine what could have happened if your BH had come back out into the garage to get something or see why you hadn’t made it to bed yet.....and what your children might have witnessed if that had happened.

This is almost a death wish/suicidal level of decision making given what possibly could have happened.

Your search into why you allowed this to happen should not ignore this astounding level of recklessness.....

IMO all cheating is reckless on some level.....but the risks you and OM were willing to take go above and beyond what most infidelity entails.

I have known some people who have had ‘loyalty’ issues in their relationships......but those I know would have walked away from your situation in a heart beat....

Way too much risk.....

The fact that you didn’t is a concern you really need to explore.....

Like I said....almost a death wish level of risk taking.

I hope you can figure it out.

And as another poster has stated earlier.....expect your BH to get MUCH angrier in the future.....he is probably still in shock at this point.


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## Notalwaysstrong

StillSearching said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. *His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer* and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst *mistake* of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame
> 
> 
> 
> First....You probably have not come completely clean with your husband.
> We all know that.
> You'd be the first WW in the last 10 years to do that....
> That's the best way to start.
> Manipulating his behavior by withholding information under the guise of "Not hurting him any further".....Well that's not going to work long term.
> Let him make a fully informed decision is your only saving grace.
Click to expand...


I accepted what I had done and took full responsibility. I told my husband everything that happened even though it killed me to answer. I also answered his questions that he had like was there oral involved?, how long was the deed? who initiated what? I know that I have to be an open book in order for him to get closure even if I have to tell every uncomfortable detail.


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## Notalwaysstrong

InMyPrime said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> 
> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss* that led to me making the worst mistake of my life*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I dunno..it’s like a Dan Brown novel with those cliff hangers...Was the kiss the worst mistake or has something else happened too?
> It’s a bit difficult to give advice not knowing the details...
> If there was sex, it changes things...a bit.
> 
> There was sex ☹
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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## Notalwaysstrong

Dyokemm said:


> Really bad situation here.
> 
> OM’s BW really needs to be told as well if that hasn’t happened yet.
> 
> And you really need to dig into why you made these choices.
> 
> Frankly, you put far more than just your M on the line given the specific details of your situation.....
> 
> Intoxicated adults with children sleeping nearby in the house.....imagine what could have happened if your BH had come back out into the garage to get something or see why you hadn’t made it to bed yet.....and what your children might have witnessed if that had happened.
> 
> This is almost a death wish/suicidal level of decision making given what possibly could have happened.
> 
> Your search into why you allowed this to happen should not ignore this astounding level of recklessness.....
> 
> IMO all cheating is reckless on some level.....but the risks you and OM were willing to take go above and beyond what most infidelity entails.
> 
> I have known some people who have had ‘loyalty’ issues in their relationships......but those I know would have walked away from your situation in a heart beat....
> 
> Way too much risk.....
> 
> The fact that you didn’t is a concern you really need to explore.....
> 
> Like I said....almost a death wish level of risk taking.
> 
> I hope you can figure it out.
> 
> And as another poster has stated earlier.....expect your BH to get MUCH angrier in the future.....he is probably still in shock at this point.


That’s exactly why I’m in counseling because this is so far out of character for me. I can’t even believe myself and I’m sickened by my actions.


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## Notalwaysstrong

StillSearching said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. *His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer* and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst *mistake* of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame
> 
> 
> 
> First....You probably have not come completely clean with your husband.
> We all know that.
> You'd be the first WW in the last 10 years to do that....
> That's the best way to start.
> Manipulating his behavior by withholding information under the guise of "Not hurting him any further".....Well that's not going to work long term.
> Let him make a fully informed decision is your only saving grace.
Click to expand...

I have told him everything and have not omitted anything. It was a hard thing and when I was saying it out loud what I had done it made me physically sick.


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## Notalwaysstrong

wilson said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not planned. I never saw him in that way until that night. I was surprised by what was unfolding. It felt like an out of body experience almost like I was watching what was happening but not present in the moment. I ask myself everyday why did I not walk away and go inside and that’s why I have personally been seeking counseling to understand my whys.
> 
> 
> 
> It's unfortunate that you had to go through this to learn you had this weakness. It doesn't absolve you of what you did, but it's common for people's moral foundations to crumble in some situations. You need to take extra steps to ensure that you are not in any situations which could potentially lead to this, such as drinking with other people, being alone with another man, being involved in any sort of one-on-one conversation with a man (e.g. texting). And you can't make it anyone else's responsibility to keep you from getting into these situations. For example, if you're at a group dinner and people leave the table such that you're there alone with a man, you need to leave. You can't make it your husband's responsibility to babysit you to ensure you're never tempted. You have to ensure you are not in situations where you can be tempted.
> 
> Think about how a drug addict is when they are trying to recover. They know they can't trust themselves around the drug, so they have to take extraordinary precautions to keep themselves out of any situation which could even remotely lead to drug use. You need to view yourself in the same way. Don't put yourself in any situation which could lead to you being tempted.
Click to expand...

Honestly I haven’t thought about it in this perspective. You’re right and I will make sure that I’m never in that situation again. It’s not my husbands duty to babysit me that’s why I’m going to always make sure I don’t allow myself to be in that situation again. I never want to hurt him like I’ve hurt him.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Mr.Married said:


> InMyPrime said:
> 
> 
> 
> So was it just a kiss then?
> You shouldn’t have told him...damn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss* that led to me making the worst mistake of my life*
Click to expand...

No, sadly we did have sex


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Lostinthought61 said:


> Did your husband talk to him and tell his wife about his actions? cutting them out of your life is one thing but how was it left?


Yes my husband called the OM after I told him. The friend tried to lie and it took my husband asking 3 times to finally tell him what happened. My husband told him he had 3 days to tell his wife or he was going to. I myself have not talked to either of them since that night and have cut off contact. I feel horrible because it’s not only my family/ marriage that has been affected by our choices but his as well. I honestly don’t care how the OM feels or what he’s going through. I feel bad for the pain I have caused my husband and his wife.


----------



## colingrant

I'm unclear as to what actually happened. Did you have sex with your family friend, or just a kiss? Pretty big difference here, not in the betrayal but in the damage that your husband has to overcome in order to recover and reconcile. If it was a kiss, your husband's heart raced as you told him. 

If it was sex, his life and the marriage has changed forever. Double betrayals typically cause post traumatic stress disorder, so he'll have to address this possibly before he can even begin to recover and he has to recover before he can reconcile the marriage to where both of you (assuming) wish for it to be. 

Considering the questions put forth by your husband and the fact that you did not refute them, I'm assuming you had sex. If so, it's important for you to get to a point of remorse, if you're not there already. To get remorseful, you have to understand precisely what he's thinking and going through. Here's a few

1) My wife's disrespect for me is unmistakable, as she did not even fear me possibly catching her, coupled by the fact that it was in our own home.l 
2) She was so attracted to my friend that she couldn't protect the sacredness of our marriage and our home, of which is tainted to me now.
3) I was a mere after thought, but not a deterrent to her kissing him and having sex.
4) Husband will have triggers of images and mind movies of you having a physical sequence (sex, kissing or both) in various areas throughout the house, so coming home to it after work will possibly be stressful and triggering. In other words he can't escape it unless you move from that house. Everyone processes this differently, but in nearly 100% of the cases, images as to what happened remain vivid in the BS memory.
5) If and it's a big if. If the other man penetrated you and protection was not involved, then that's an entirely deeper emotion for him to overcome. At least it would be for me. It exacerbates the disrespect and don't care factor by 10.

I don't know enough to provide more. Even with what was written here is pure speculation because I'm still unclear if sex took place. But again, if you're husband is asking how long, ect., I'm assuming it was. We're on the internet here. We don't know who you are and never will, so you might as well lay it out as to what happened so that you can get the feedback you want.


----------



## wilson

Notalwaysstrong said:


> I feel horrible because it’s not only my family/ marriage that has been affected by our choices but his as well.


I would be shocked if this was the first time that other guy did something like this. It is so brazen, casual, forward, and uncaring that I cannot comprehend that he was an upstanding guy before this and suddenly snapped. The sooner his wife finds out and deals with the fallout, the sooner she can put it behind her and create a new life.

However, be prepared for him to blame it all on you and for his wife to be convinced that you were the aggressor. He has no morals and will likely tell any lie he thinks will benefit him. Depending on her, she may totally believe him and tell everyone his version of what happened.


----------



## 269370

Crap. Sorry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dyokemm

wilson said:


> I would be shocked if this was the first time that other guy did something like this. It is so brazen, casual, forward, and uncaring that I cannot comprehend that he was an upstanding guy before this and suddenly snapped. The sooner his wife finds out and deals with the fallout, the sooner she can put it behind her and create a new life.
> 
> However, be prepared for him to blame it all on you and for his wife to be convinced that you were the aggressor. He has no morals and will likely tell any lie he thinks will benefit him. Depending on her, she may totally believe him and tell everyone his version of what happened.


Good point.....

OP....

You need to prepare yourself.....

This guy is going to say this was all you in order to save his a** with his own BW....

And if she decides to accept his version (for whatever reason) she is going to trash you repeatedly and viciously with any mutual friends/acquaintances......

You need to be prepared for the possibility.....and so does your BH.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame


I see there is confusion. Yes, sex did happen and yes I have told my husband everything. I maybe really messed up and did a horrible thing but I’m a very honest person and I saw no positives in omitting anything. He needed to hear everything and I’ve told him what happened more than once and answered any questions for details. I read articles on how to appropriately deliver my infidelity. I wanted to handle the situation the best I could to make sure I was giving my marriage it’s best chance to survive. 

A little background on me:
I come from a trouble childhood of drugs, sexual abuse and abandonment. I watched my dad die and my mom leave and grew up in foster care. I have strived to make sure that my childhood didn’t affect who I am as an adult. I still got good grades, went to college, got a good job, live in a beautiful house and suppress any part of my childhood however, I suffer with severe anxiety, depression and anger. My counselor says that my foundation has cracks and not confronting the hurt and pain is a problem. Alcohol was my coping mechanism. However, my past and the fact I was drinking does not make what I did okay in any means but is more so helping me figure out why I let my boundaries drop.

Background on our relationship:
We have been together for 11 years and married for 4 and have one son. There has been infidelity before, before we were married my husband, boyfriend at the time hooked up with my best friend while I was sleeping 20ft away in a camper. They did not have sex but there was a kiss and handjob involved. I had got up to see why they weren’t in the tent and saw her on top of him. They lied to me for 2 years and said nothing happened. Fast forward to 1 month before our wedding she was supposed to be a bridesmaid and one night at dinner SHE told me what happened. He never planned on telling me. I remember the hurt I felt and that’s why I instantly came clean and didn’t lie. 

Do I think my ONS was revenge? I thought about this myself and I truly don’t believe so because I had forgiven and healed. I think the problem lies solely within me. 

What’s happened so far:
Intimacy has been restored (after std test came back clear)
No contact with the other couple
He told me he loves me and meant it
I think we have a lot of stuff to work on and It will always be a work in progress. I just want to make sure I’m doing everything in my power to confront what happened and learn from it and do things everyday to show my husband how sorry I am.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Dyokemm said:


> wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would be shocked if this was the first time that other guy did something like this. It is so brazen, casual, forward, and uncaring that I cannot comprehend that he was an upstanding guy before this and suddenly snapped. The sooner his wife finds out and deals with the fallout, the sooner she can put it behind her and create a new life.
> 
> However, be prepared for him to blame it all on you and for his wife to be convinced that you were the aggressor. He has no morals and will likely tell any lie he thinks will benefit him. Depending on her, she may totally believe him and tell everyone his version of what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.....
> 
> OP....
> 
> You need to prepare yourself.....
> 
> This guy is going to say this was all you in order to save his a** with his own BW....
> 
> And if she decides to accept his version (for whatever reason) she is going to trash you repeatedly and viciously with any mutual friends/acquaintances......
> 
> You need to be prepared for the possibility.....and so does your BH.
Click to expand...

My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from his mouth. He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

colingrant said:


> I'm unclear as to what actually happened. Did you have sex with your family friend, or just a kiss? Pretty big difference here, not in the betrayal but in the damage that your husband has to overcome in order to recover and reconcile. If it was a kiss, your husband's heart raced as you told him.
> 
> If it was sex, his life and the marriage has changed forever. Double betrayals typically cause post traumatic stress disorder, so he'll have to address this possibly before he can even begin to recover and he has to recover before he can reconcile the marriage to where both of you (assuming) wish for it to be.
> 
> Considering the questions put forth by your husband and the fact that you did not refute them, I'm assuming you had sex. If so, it's important for you to get to a point of remorse, if you're not there already. To get remorseful, you have to understand precisely what he's thinking and going through. Here's a few
> 
> 1) My wife's disrespect for me is unmistakable, as she did not even fear me possibly catching her, coupled by the fact that it was in our own home.l
> 2) She was so attracted to my friend that she couldn't protect the sacredness of our marriage and our home, of which is tainted to me now.
> 3) I was a mere after thought, but not a deterrent to her kissing him and having sex.
> 4) Husband will have triggers of images and mind movies of you having a physical sequence (sex, kissing or both) in various areas throughout the house, so coming home to it after work will possibly be stressful and triggering. In other words he can't escape it unless you move from that house. Everyone processes this differently, but in nearly 100% of the cases, images as to what happened remain vivid in the BS memory.
> 5) If and it's a big if. If the other man penetrated you and protection was not involved, then that's an entirely deeper emotion for him to overcome. At least it would be for me. It exacerbates the disrespect and don't care factor by 10.
> 
> I don't know enough to provide more. Even with what was written here is pure speculation because I'm still unclear if sex took place. But again, if you're husband is asking how long, ect., I'm assuming it was. We're on the internet here. We don't know who you are and never will, so you might as well lay it out as to what happened so that you can get the feedback you want.


Thank you for these pointers. Yes I’m extremely remorseful for my choice and not because of how I feel but because of all the hurt and damage that I’ve caused. I never in a million years pictured myself here and cannot believe what I’ve done. I need these different perspectives to fully understand his hurt so I can help heal. I feel sad that our marriage isn’t “pure” and never will be. I’m doing my best to admit my faults and not place blame on him at all. I keep making sure to tell him that this is my fault and how truly sorry I am.


----------



## CraigBesuden

I’m sorry that you’re in this position.

It probably isn’t about earning back his love so much as trust. That will take time. Showing honesty, remorse, and willingness to avoid it happening again is important. Hopefully he can move past it.

The “double betrayal” does make it worse. The way you’ve portrayed it, the friend initiated the encounter. I’m assuming that you were more intoxicated than the friend, otherwise you wouldn’t have thought so differently while sober. And the friend’s statement that it would be your little secret suggests that he’s thought about it in advance, and so he very likely has done this before.

I would have recommended that you not tell H and just not do it again. But being honest now is the best you can do.

Hopefully he doesn’t ask you if you orgasmed, if he was bigger or better than H, etc. If your sex life has suffered with young children (as they almost always do), he may wonder why you’re too tired or disinterested for sex with him, but you’re ready to go with his friend.


----------



## Openminded

There's lots of work ahead that will take time and energy and commitment. The old marriage has been destroyed and you have to build a new one. What you did won't be forgotten but maybe it can be overcome (there are some success stories here). 

Your life has to become an open book in every way. Be prepared for your husband's anger to resurface at times as he works through this. It's not a quick process (think years rather than months). Hopefully, you and your husband will survive this. Good luck.


----------



## colingrant

Just read you had sex. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, just so that you can mentally prepare yourself for what's coming.

1) Your husband may become impotent knowing another man has been there. Happens frequently. 

2) As said above and it's worth repeating, the disrespect and humiliation factor by one's wife willingly being taken by another man in his own home will possibly send him into a spiral of despair and depression. Highly likely 

3) Your husband may want to reclaim you by having lots of sex within a short period of time, but it may be followed by not wanting to touch you for months or years. 

4) You may want to take over some things that he often does, like bill paying, etc., his ability to concentrate will be challenged. As will his ability to work at his place of employment. 

5) Possible weight loss. Since it's not an affair and was a one time incident this may not be the case, but keep an eye out.

6) He will conclude this didn't happen by coincidence. Even you may have subconsciously or consciously experienced a vibe between the two of you and just allowed things to develop. This is very possible and you'll have to come clean to your counselor on what thoughts you may have suppressed that allowed this to happen. 

7) I was in your situation last September. A very attractive neighbor and I found ourselves alone. I saw and felt it developing. She was fidgety, physically close and making up nonsensical conversation. I backed up a half step or so and changed the subject to something more serious and real, and then led her to the stairwell. I saw and felt the tension. I had a choice then. Roll with it or stop the train. I stopped the train. 

8) Understand that you have permanently changed the dynamic of the marriage and that you can still have a successful one, but it will be changed forever. After months of counseling, he'll still be grieving years later and you will have to understand this. If you insist that he "get over it" , you might as well divorce him now, as that position reflects an remorseful wife. There is no statue of limitations for overcoming infidelity. Everyone is wired differently. 

9) Needless to say, he'll not wish to communicate with you, which can leave you very lonely and vulnerable. You will have to endure this. 

10) He needs lots of reassurances from you that he is the man you want and you have to be willing to shower him, IF HE LETS YOU. Even if he doesn't though I would still try in your own way. He will appear as if he's uncaring perhaps, but he will see your efforts and it will go a long way.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

colingrant said:


> Just read you had sex. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, just so that you can mentally prepare yourself for what's coming.
> 
> 1) Your husband may become impotent knowing another man has been there. Happens frequently.
> 
> 2) As said above and it's worth repeating, the disrespect and humiliation factor by one's wife willingly being taken by another man in his own home will possibly send him into a spiral of despair and depression. Highly likely
> 
> 3) Your husband may want to reclaim you by having lots of sex within a short period of time, but it may be followed by not wanting to touch you for months or years.
> 
> 4) You may want to take over some things that he often does, like bill paying, etc., his ability to concentrate will be challenged. As will his ability to work at his place of employment.
> 
> 5) Possible weight loss. Since it's not an affair and was a one time incident this may not be the case, but keep an eye out.
> 
> 6) He will conclude this didn't happen by coincidence. Even you may have subconsciously or consciously experienced a vibe between the two of you and just allowed things to develop. This is very possible and you'll have to come clean to your counselor on what thoughts you may have suppressed that allowed this to happen.
> 
> 7) I was in your situation last September. A very attractive neighbor and I found ourselves alone. I saw and felt it developing. She was fidgety, physically close and making up nonsensical conversation. I backed up a half step or so and changed the subject to something more serious and real, and then led her to the stairwell. I saw and felt the tension. I had a choice then. Roll with it or stop the train. I stopped the train.
> 
> 8) Understand that you have permanently changed the dynamic of the marriage and that you can still have a successful one, but it will be changed forever. After months of counseling, he'll still be grieving years later and you will have to understand this. If you insist that he "get over it" , you might as well divorce him now, as that position reflects an remorseful wife. There is no statue of limitations for overcoming infidelity. Everyone is wired differently.
> 
> 9) Needless to say, he'll not wish to communicate with you, which can leave you very lonely and vulnerable. You will have to endure this.
> 
> 10) He needs lots of reassurances from you that he is the man you want and you have to be willing to shower him, IF HE LETS YOU. Even if he doesn't though I would still try in your own way. He will appear as if he's uncaring perhaps, but he will see your efforts and it will go a long way.


All of this is very helpful! I’m in it for the long haul so I’m willing to take whatever comes my way and handle it the best I can. My husband and our marriage is very important to me so I will do whatever it takes to help build it back up. Even if that means patience which is something I lack. 

Okay I have a question. He has been acting like it hasn’t happened for the last few weeks. We go about our normal lives, sex is still there and he talks about our future. Which is nice but I’m nervous and don’t want to pretend like it never happened because that’s not healing. So I’m going with the flow and I don’t talk about it unless he brings it up. Is this how I should be handling it?


----------



## StillSearching

Notalwaysstrong said:


> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from *his mouth*. *He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie*. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.


Well do you think you would have a reason to lie?


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Openminded said:


> There's lots of work ahead that will take time and energy and commitment. The old marriage has been destroyed and you have to build a new one. What you did won't be forgotten but maybe it can be overcome (there are some success stories here).
> 
> Your life has to become an open book in every way. Be prepared for your husband's anger to resurface at times as he works through this. It's not a quick process (think years rather than months). Hopefully, you and your husband will survive this. Good luck.


Open book is definitely what he’s getting. I hate that we are here and I’m the reason we have to through this. I will have to look for the success stories I find them helpful and hopeful.


----------



## CraigBesuden

The fact that you told him so quickly after it happened helps. And that you didn’t need to tell him (ie, the friend wasn’t going to tell anybody and there was no evidence) helps, too.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

StillSearching said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from *his mouth*. *He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie*. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.
> 
> 
> 
> Well do you think you would have a reason to lie?
Click to expand...

No, I have no reason. I’ve admitted to everything. Even when I felt disgusted hearing myself say it out loud I swallowed my pride and told him everything.


----------



## VladDracul

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Do I think my ONS was revenge?


Yep. If you admit it, somewhere you thinking, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". I'd bet the OM lagged behind in garage because he saw some vulnerability in you and decided to test the waters. His move to get in your britches was spot on. (Albeit, he got his azz caught. ) When you were mentally having sex before the actual deed, you should have extended your thoughts to what am I going to feel like after the cheating. 
Don't be too hard on yourself. You had a hall pass of sorts for him doing your girlfriend. Hey, the playing field is level now so both of you need to move past it. Put him on this site and I'll remind him of that.


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## Notalwaysstrong

personofinterest said:


> Linda McDonald - How to help your spouse heal from an affair
> 
> Shirley Glass - Not Just Friends
> 
> Willard Harley - Surviving an Affair


Thank you I’ve downloaded the how to help your spouse heal from an affair to my audiobooks and plan on listening.


----------



## CraigBesuden

> Don't be too hard on yourself. You had a hall pass of sorts for him doing your girlfriend. Hey, the playing field is level now so both of you need to move past it.


Agreed. I didn’t read that he’d gotten a handie from your good friend and lied about it for two years. That changes things.


----------



## skerzoid

Notalwaysstrong:

The first thing you have to understand is this has _*emasculated*_ your husband. We men are easily made to feel less of a man because a woman chose to have sex with someone else. That is what you have to be very aware of ongoing. You have to make him believe that you still look at him as the best man you have ever known. 

This was not the worst mistake you ever made, this was a choice that you made at that moment in time, and he will never understand why you choose that action. 

You didn't fall on his **** by mistake. He didn't assault you. You needed this. You wanted this. At the spur of the moment this became all you cared about. Not your husband, not your kids, not his wife, not his kids. You needed to feel desirable. Nothing else in the world stopped you.

Your husband was willing to die for you and his kids. You are probably willing to do that too, but not at that moment. You put your needs ahead of everything else in your life. 

Betrayal by someone you love is the worst thing that can happen to you. It causes some people to commit suicide, it causes some to commit acts of violence, even murder. This was a double betrayal thus twice the hurt. 

He will never forget this. He may forgive you, he may chose to stay because of his family, he may chose to stay because he still loves you, but there will always be a scar on him.

If he grants you the *gift of reconciliation*, and this will be the greatest gift he could ever give you, you have years of hard work ahead of you. You are going to have to do everything you can do; take his anger, take his sadness, take his triggering, & take his repeated questioning for years. 

Actions you should take:

1. *Get yourselves into Individual Counseling.* No marriage counseling yet, it is a waste of money. He needs triage. You need counseling for your drinking and your ****ty self image.

2. *Answer all questions willingly and be ready to do this for years.* It may take between 2 to 5 years for your marriage to recover.

3. *Your aim is to get back the balance in your marriage.* You cannot go on forever in a relationship where you are always walking on eggshells. But, unfortunately, you will not be able to do this without a lot of studying, working on yourself, and showing him he is still the man you love, the man you want live with forever. 

4. *Give him access to all your electronics and social media. * There is NO RIGHT to privacy in your marriage.

5. *Be willing to take a polygraph test to prove this was a one time thing.*

5. *Be honest with him in all ways.*

6. *Have you both been checked for STD's?* No telling where the other man's **** has been. Are you on birth control? I'll take it for granted that no condom was used.

6. *No drinking as you and he both know what you are capable of when you drink.* Drinking did not make you want this, it took away your inhibitions that stood in the way of doing what you wanted. It unleashed your desire to be looked at by another man as sexy and attractive, to be validated as still being a beautiful woman. We all want this. Thats what inhibitions are for, to keep the beast caged up.

7. * Understand, you do all this and there is no guarantee that you will save your marriage.* You have damaged it that much. But, here's wishing you good luck for you, him, and your family.


----------



## colingrant

Notalwaysstrong said:


> All of this is very helpful! I’m in it for the long haul so I’m willing to take whatever comes my way and handle it the best I can. My husband and our marriage is very important to me so I will do whatever it takes to help build it back up. Even if that means patience which is something I lack.
> 
> Okay I have a question. He has been acting like it hasn’t happened for the last few weeks. We go about our normal lives, sex is still there and he talks about our future. Which is nice but I’m nervous and don’t want to pretend like it never happened because that’s not healing. So I’m going with the flow and I don’t talk about it unless he brings it up. Is this how I should be handling it?


Great question and even better perception on your part. He's hurting and wants to forget about it, by compartmentalizing it. Happily married people and/or couples like being married and wish for normalcy back in their lives. This is what he wants. His world was just fine before and he wants nothing more than to restore it to that. 

It's also possible that you have made him feel special and therefor he's restored some of what was lost in him. If you have showered him with actions and words that reflect your sincerity of wanting him and loving him, it may have had a positive effect. Plus, you've done MANY things right here. As egregious as the sex was, your response was equally as impactful. 

You confessed and you were forthcoming. This is nearly as equal as finding cancer in it's early stages as opposed to ignoring symptoms and going to the doctor months later where it's nearly incurable. You gave yourself and the marriage a chance by having the courage to come forward. In retrospect, the marriage can be saved because of this and he's possibly feeling hopeful. 

With all that being said however, it would be smart for him to receive independent counseling with a professional who has experience with trauma. Trauma can leave one feeling numb, which may be what you are seeing when you say he's acting like nothing has happened. He's possibly a walking zombie. He's discovered his best friend ever (you) and another friend have united romantically in a way that he would have never thought of, let alone experienced.


----------



## wilson

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Okay I have a question. He has been acting like it hasn’t happened for the last few weeks. We go about our normal lives, sex is still there and he talks about our future. Which is nice but I’m nervous and don’t want to pretend like it never happened because that’s not healing. So I’m going with the flow and I don’t talk about it unless he brings it up. Is this how I should be handling it?


He may be acting like this because he also cheated in the past and he may feel he doesn't have the right to take the moral high ground. Or maybe he doesn't want to delve back into all that, so he's avoiding getting into this now. He's probably trying to come to terms with it and he'll probably go through different phases at different times.


----------



## Dyokemm

Notalwaysstrong said:


> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from his mouth. He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.


It is a good thing that you don’t share an extended social circle with the other couple, just in case this scenario does result.

And I say that more for your BH than you.

I am not saying I think you should be denigrated or publicly scorned......but from a neutral point of view it would be a self-inflicted wound if it happened, even if wrong.

But for your BH?

To have an extended circle of friends discussing his WW in horrible terms and the widespread knowledge that he was remaining with a W who could do this to him....well that would be very painful for your BH to deal with.

You are lucky to avoid it to a large extent.

Just be aware that it might happen.....

If you ever do come into contact with people in the future who are friends with the other couple, there is a possibility that you will have a bad reputation and your BH may be humiliated to find out they know all about his cheating fWW.

Best to be aware of the possibility so it doesn’t hit you and your BH’s M and R like a freight train out of the blue.


----------



## colingrant

CraigBesuden said:


> Agreed. I didn’t read that he’d gotten a handie from your good friend and lied about it for two years. That changes things.


I'm just catching this myself. Changes things a little. It's possible he's walking around acting like nothing has happened because he had been expecting Karma to come along and finally she did. Not condoning anything here, just offering possibilities.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

skerzoid said:


> Notalwaysstrong:
> 
> The first thing you have to understand is this has _*emasculated*_ your husband. We men are easily made to feel less of a man because a woman chose to have sex with someone else. That is what you have to be very aware of ongoing. You have to make him believe that you still look at him as the best man you have ever known.
> 
> This was not the worst mistake you ever made, this was a choice that you made at that moment in time, and he will never understand why you choose that action.
> 
> You didn't fall on his **** by mistake. He didn't assault you. You needed this. You wanted this. At the spur of the moment this became all you cared about. Not your husband, not your kids, not his wife, not his kids. You needed to feel desirable. Nothing else in the world stopped you.
> 
> Betrayal by someone you love is the worst thing that can happen to you. It causes some people to commit suicide, it causes some to commit acts of violence, even murder. This was a double betrayal thus twice the hurt... your husband was willing to die for you and his kids. You are probably willing to do that too, but not at that moment. You put your needs ahead of everything else in your life.
> 
> He will never forget this. He may forgive you, he may chose to stay because of his family, he may chose to stay because he still loves you, but there will always be a scar on him.
> 
> If he grants you the *gift of reconciliation*, and this will be the greatest gift he could ever give you, you have years of hard work ahead of you. You are going to have to do everything you can do; take his anger, take his sadness, take his triggering, & take his repeated questioning for years.
> 
> Actions you should take:
> 
> 1. *Get yourselves into Individual Counseling.* No marriage counseling yet, it is a waste of money. He needs triage. You need counseling for your drinking and your ****ty self image.
> 
> 2. *Answer all questions willingly and be ready to do this for years.* It may take between 2 to 5 years for your marriage to recover.
> 
> 3. *Your aim is to get back the balance in your marriage.* You cannot go on forever in a relationship where you are always walking on eggshells. But, unfortunately, you will not be able to do this without a lot of studying, working on yourself, and showing him he is still the man you love, the man you want live with forever.
> 
> 4. *Give him access to all your electronics and social media. * There is NO RIGHT to privacy in your marriage.
> 
> 5. *Be willing to take a polygraph test to prove this was a one time thing.*
> 
> 5. *Be honest with him in all ways.*
> 
> 6. *Have you both been checked for STD's?* No telling where the other man's **** has been. Are you on birth control? I'll take it for granted that no condom was used.
> 
> 6. *No drinking as you and he both know what you are capable of when you drink.* Drinking did not make you want this, it took away your inhibitions that stood in the way of doing what you wanted. It unleashed your desire to be looked at by another man as sexy and attractive, to be validated as still being a beautiful woman. We all want this. Thats what inhibitions are for, to keep the beast caged up.
> 
> 7. * Understand, you do all this and there is no guarantee that you will save your marriage.* You have damaged it that much. But, here's wishing you good luck for you, him, and your family.


These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested. 

He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


----------



## personofinterest

Notalwaysstrong said:


> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from *his mouth*. *He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie*. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.
> 
> 
> 
> Well do you think you would have a reason to lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I have no reason. I’ve admitted to everything. Even when I felt disgusted hearing myself say it out loud I swallowed my pride and told him everything.
Click to expand...

 You need to understand that there are some people who, due to their own dysfunction, are going to question everything you say and accuse you of lying about most of it. They will make sweeping statements about you and your husband because of their own work that they have not yet done. Forums are like a cafeteria. Take what is helpful and ignore the rest.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Dyokemm said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from his mouth. He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a good thing that you don’t share an extended social circle with the other couple, just in case this scenario does result.
> 
> And I say that more for your BH than you.
> 
> I am not saying I think you should be denigrated or publicly scorned......but from a neutral point of view it would be a self-inflicted wound if it happened, even if wrong.
> 
> But for your BH?
> 
> To have an extended circle of friends discussing his WW in horrible terms and the widespread knowledge that he was remaining with a W who could do this to him....well that would be very painful for your BH to deal with.
> 
> You are lucky to avoid it to a large extent.
> 
> Just be aware that it might happen.....
> 
> If you ever do come into contact with people in the future who are friends with the other couple, there is a possibility that you will have a bad reputation and your BH may be humiliated to find out they know all about his cheating fWW.
> 
> Best to be aware of the possibility so it doesn’t hit you and your BH’s M and R like a freight train out of the blue.
Click to expand...

That’s a very good point


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

personofinterest said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband already told me he doesn’t believe a word from *his mouth*. *He also said that with what I told him I had no reason to lie*. We don’t run with the same circle of friends so luckily I won’t have to deal with the lies. If she needs someone to hate to help her get through this. I’m okay with that because I deserve to be hated.
> 
> 
> 
> Well do you think you would have a reason to lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I have no reason. I’ve admitted to everything. Even when I felt disgusted hearing myself say it out loud I swallowed my pride and told him everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to understand that there are some people who, due to their own dysfunction, are going to question everything you say and accuse you of lying about most of it. They will make sweeping statements about you and your husband because of their own work that they have not yet done. Forums are like a cafeteria. Take what is helpful and ignore the rest.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is my first time participating in a forum and considering what I’ve done most of these posts have been helpful.


----------



## colingrant

Notalwaysstrong said:


> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


It's important for him to distinguish the differences of your counseling versus his. Yours is to get to the root cause of what enabled you to compromise your boundaries, betray your vows to him and devastate the marriage foundation.

His is to help him recover from the emotional damage caused by your betrayal. So, your reasoning is to find out why, and his is to find out how. How to, as in how to mitigate the long term emotional damage so that it doesn't grate on the marriage and resurface months or years later.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

colingrant said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of this is very helpful! I’m in it for the long haul so I’m willing to take whatever comes my way and handle it the best I can. My husband and our marriage is very important to me so I will do whatever it takes to help build it back up. Even if that means patience which is something I lack.
> 
> Okay I have a question. He has been acting like it hasn’t happened for the last few weeks. We go about our normal lives, sex is still there and he talks about our future. Which is nice but I’m nervous and don’t want to pretend like it never happened because that’s not healing. So I’m going with the flow and I don’t talk about it unless he brings it up. Is this how I should be handling it?
> 
> 
> 
> Great question and even better perception on your part. He's hurting and wants to forget about it, by compartmentalizing it. Happily married people and/or couples like being married and wish for normalcy back in their lives. This is what he wants. His world was just fine before and he wants nothing more than to restore it to that.
> 
> It's also possible that you have made him feel special and therefor he's restored some of what was lost in him. If you have showered him with actions and words that reflect your sincerity of wanting him and loving him, it may have had a positive effect. Plus, you've done MANY things right here. As egregious as the sex was, your response was equally as impactful.
> 
> You confessed and you were forthcoming. This is nearly as equal as finding cancer in it's early stages as opposed to ignoring symptoms and going to the doctor months later where it's nearly incurable. You gave yourself and the marriage a chance by having the courage to come forward. In retrospect, the marriage can be saved because of this and he's possibly feeling hopeful.
> 
> With all that being said however, it would be smart for him to receive independent counseling with a professional who has experience with trauma. Trauma can leave one feeling numb, which may be what you are seeing when you say he's acting like nothing has happened. He's possibly a walking zombie. He's discovered his best friend ever (you) and another friend have united romantically in a way that he would have never thought of, let alone experienced.
Click to expand...

He seems to really be against counseling. I’m in counseling and it’s something I should have been doing. I’m hoping that he will see the positives it brings through me and want to go for himself but don’t want to push it. His mom and her family do not accept counseling and mental health. They are a more if you want to be happy make yourself happy and don’t waste money type.


----------



## StillSearching

Notalwaysstrong said:


> No, I have no reason. I’ve admitted to everything. Even when I felt disgusted hearing myself say it out loud I swallowed my pride and told him everything.


But I said "Well do you think you *would* have a reason to lie?"

Did you give him details?
Did he ask for them?
Would you hold back anything to say keep from hurting him?
You know something that it wouldn't matter if he didn't know it?
Like a particular act.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

StillSearching said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I have no reason. I’ve admitted to everything. Even when I felt disgusted hearing myself say it out loud I swallowed my pride and told him everything.
> 
> 
> 
> But I said "Well do you think you *would* have a reason to lie?"
> 
> Did you give him details?
> Did he ask for them?
> Would you hold back anything to say keep from hurting him?
> You know something that it wouldn't matter if he didn't know it?
> Like a particular act.
Click to expand...

I gave him details and any additional details he asked for in the same conversation. I already hurt him so no point in holding anything back. I already cheated I don’t want to be a liar too. He got a play by play of everything that happened. Even when it physically made me sick to tell him.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Sounds like you two should split.


----------



## [email protected]

Well Notalwaysstrong, there is a little problem. Your BH's mind movie of the POSOM sticking it in you will never, ever go away. It'll be there 20 years from now. That's one reason why I believe that cheating should nearly always result in divorce.


----------



## ConanHub

[email protected] said:


> Well Notalwaysstrong, there is a little problem. Your BH's mind movie of the POSOM sticking it in you will never, ever go away. It'll be there 20 years from now. That's one reason why I believe that cheating should nearly always result in divorce.


I've seen many get through the obstacles of mind movies.

OP's husband might be able to work through this knowing the truth.

OP did a lot of things right immediately afterwards and mitigated a lot of damage.


----------



## SunCMars

Notalwaysstrong said:


> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


I see this as a huge concern. 

Is he such this, this cool cucumber?
If not, how has he made up his mind?

1) Maybe, he really has forgiven you, much too easy in my view..... I would guess.
_Rather easy_ is my 'troubled' thought.

Why?

2) Maybe, he has stepped out on you, done so sometime during your marriage, as, he has also had his affair or two, _after_ marriage.

3) Maybe, he is a naturally forgiving person, and has a strong sense of worth, a good sense of self.

4) He is a plodder, a slow burner. His anger will continue to grow.....until it flares up and consumes him.

5) He is on autopilot, he refuses to face the music, just lives day by day, trying not to think about what happened. He is burying his emotions, compartmentalizing them, hoping in a year, life will continue where it left off. He is having sex often with you trying to convince 'himself' that he is a good lover.

6) After convincing himself and you that he is a good lover, a good man, a good husband...all that, he will 'later' file for divorce and totally surprise you and dump you.

Do so this....in cold blood.

........................


If he does not express his feelings..

He is a potato.
He is repressing his anxiety through sheer will.

The answer is somewhere in this, my post.



KB-


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Okay I have a question. He has been acting like it hasn’t happened for the last few weeks. We go about our normal lives, sex is still there and he talks about our future. Which is nice but I’m nervous and don’t want to pretend like it never happened because that’s not healing. So I’m going with the flow and I don’t talk about it unless he brings it up. *Is this how I should be handling it?*


My opinion is YES, this is how you should be handling it. Follow his lead, I am sure he would appreciate that you are trying to be respectful of what he needs. If he isnt talking about it, he likely doesnt want it brought up at all, feeling like its being shoved in his face. Also as someone else mentioned, he may be feeling that karma finally got him after his cheating and is just dealing with it. Just be prepared that he may blow up one day out of the blue after not talking about it.


----------



## ConanHub

SunCMars said:


> I see this as a huge concern.
> 
> Is he such this, this cool cucumber?
> If not, how has he made up his mind?
> 
> 1) Maybe, he really has forgiven you, much too easy in my view..... I would guess.
> _Rather easy_ is my 'troubled' thought.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 2) Maybe, he has stepped out on you, done so sometime during your marriage, as, he has also had his affair or two, _after_ marriage.
> 
> 3) Maybe, he is a naturally forgiving person, and has a strong sense of worth, a good sense of self.
> 
> 4) He is a plodder, a slow burner. His anger will continue to grow.....until it flares up and consumes him.
> 
> 5) He is on autopilot, he refuses to face the music, just lives day by day, trying not to think about what happened. He is burying his emotions, compartmentalizing them, hoping in a year, life will continue where it left off. He is having sex often with you trying to convince 'himself' that he is a good lover.
> 
> 6) After convincing himself and you that he is a good lover, a good man, a good husband...all that, he will 'later' file for divorce and totally surprise you and dump you.
> 
> Do so this....in cold blood.
> 
> ........................
> 
> 
> If he does not express his feelings..
> 
> He is a potato.
> He is repressing his anxiety through sheer will.
> 
> The answer is somewhere in this, my post.
> 
> 
> 
> KB-


He may be wired like me and my youngest son. We get it all out relatively quickly and then we are ok.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

SunCMars said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I see this as a huge concern.
> 
> Is he such this, this cool cucumber?
> If not, how has he made up his mind?
> 
> 1) Maybe, he really has forgiven you, much too easy in my view..... I would guess.
> _Rather easy_ is my 'troubled' thought.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 2) Maybe, he has stepped out on you, done so sometime during your marriage, as, he has also had his affair or two, _after_ marriage.
> 
> 3) Maybe, he is a naturally forgiving person, and has a strong sense of worth, a good sense of self.
> 
> 4) He is a plodder, a slow burner. His anger will continue to grow.....until it flares up and consumes him.
> 
> 5) He is on autopilot, he refuses to face the music, just lives day by day, trying not to think about what happened. He is burying his emotions, compartmentalizing them, hoping in a year, life will continue where it left off. He is having sex often with you trying to convince 'himself' that he is a good lover.
> 
> 6) After convincing himself and you that he is a good lover, a good man, a good husband...all that, he will 'later' file for divorce and totally surprise you and dump you.
> 
> Do so this....in cold blood.
> 
> ........................
> 
> 
> If he does not express his feelings..
> 
> He is a potato.
> He is repressing his anxiety through sheer will.
> 
> The answer is somewhere in this, my post.
> 
> 
> 
> KB-
Click to expand...

So he has an amazing ability to cope with trauma and difficult situations but I also think that he is compartmentalizing some of it. Do I think he has forgiven me? Absolutely not and I know that will take time. I think he is living life like normal because it’s his coping mechanism. He has taken on a lot of house projects and my guess is he fixes the house as his therapy. He also wants me to help him and he’s planned trips for us to spend time together. He has had a few flare ups the first one being the worst where I was scolded for 2 hours and all I did was admit my wrongs and apologize. I’m hoping that doing nice things for him everyday like cooking his favorite meals, getting up early with our son so he can sleep in among other things shows that I’m trying to prove that I love him and I’m here doing my best for him even though I didn’t think of him at the time of the ONS.


----------



## personofinterest

Notalwaysstrong said:


> So he has an amazing ability to cope with trauma and difficult situations but I also think that he is compartmentalizing some of it. Do I think he has forgiven me? Absolutely not and I know that will take time. I think he is living life like normal because it’s his coping mechanism. He has taken on a lot of house projects and my guess is he fixes the house as his therapy. He also wants me to help him and he’s planned trips for us to spend time together. He has had a few flare ups the first one being the worst where I was scolded for 2 hours and all I did was admit my wrongs and apologize. I’m hoping that doing nice things for him everyday like cooking his favorite meals, getting up early with our son so he can sleep in among other things shows that I’m trying to prove that I love him and I’m here doing my best for him even though I didn’t think of him at the time of the ONS.


It sounds like you are doing the right things so far. Understand it is not linear. He may seem better, then come apart, then seem better, then pull away.

As for the inflammatory remarks about you "sticking it in" and such, again, understand that not everyone posts to be helpful. In the end, the only person you are accountable to is your husband.


----------



## personofinterest

[email protected] said:


> Well Notalwaysstrong, there is a little problem. Your BH's mind movie of the POSOM sticking it in you will never, ever go away. It'll be there 20 years from now. That's one reason why I believe that cheating should nearly always result in divorce.


Of course, that is not what THIS couple has decided to do so far. So....maybe we should focus on tips for that?


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

personofinterest said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> So he has an amazing ability to cope with trauma and difficult situations but I also think that he is compartmentalizing some of it. Do I think he has forgiven me? Absolutely not and I know that will take time. I think he is living life like normal because it’s his coping mechanism. He has taken on a lot of house projects and my guess is he fixes the house as his therapy. He also wants me to help him and he’s planned trips for us to spend time together. He has had a few flare ups the first one being the worst where I was scolded for 2 hours and all I did was admit my wrongs and apologize. I’m hoping that doing nice things for him everyday like cooking his favorite meals, getting up early with our son so he can sleep in among other things shows that I’m trying to prove that I love him and I’m here doing my best for him even though I didn’t think of him at the time of the ONS.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you are doing the right things so far. Understand it is not linear. He may seem better, then come apart, then seem better, then pull away.
> 
> As for the inflammatory remarks about you "sticking it in" and such, again, understand that not everyone posts to be helpful. In the end, the only person you are accountable to is your husband.
Click to expand...

This whole situation has been a mess and I’m thankful for everyone who has looked at all the details posted and given honest feedback. You’re correct not everyone’s post will be helpful but most have. I was really scared to post, in tears actually but it’s nice to know people are willing to help.


----------



## TBT

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Open book is definitely what he’s getting. I hate that we are here and I’m the reason we have to through this. I will have to look for the success stories I find them helpful and hopeful.


You might check out a couples journey here,as well as others. https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html


----------



## sokillme

Notalwaysstrong said:


> That’s exactly why I’m in counseling because this is so far out of character for me. I can’t even believe myself and I’m sickened by my actions.


Be careful with this. This is just a side of yourself that you didn't know about until now. Look we all have bad side of ourselves but when you say it like that it sound like it just happened. Don't dismiss it so easily. There may be other aspects of this side of your character that are affected that have nothing to do with sex. Which is why it's good to really get to work on that. If you understand it you can take steps to help keep you from going down paths that might bring it out. Also you have done this now so it will always be a part of you, you have to decide what will come next. Will the aftermath be a determination to be better or not. But you have to come to terms that at least that night it was very much in your character. You did it because a big part of you wanted to. Alcohol probably helped. Find out why. At least why you did enough to betray your husband and in the end yourself. 

As far as the marriage the first thing you need to ask yourself though is do you really love your husband and want this, and not because of guilt but in a way that every spouse wants to be loved. Almost all people don't want to be in a marriage because of guilt. Besides that even if it would be terribly painful to brake up, your marriage is going to be harder now and every person wants and deserves to be loved fully. Understand for a while you are going to have to deal with some very rough times. If you can't do that you should do everyone but especially your husband a favor and back out. He is probably disillusioned with you right now so you are going to have to earn your way back. The best way you can do that is consistency and empathy. You started that by confessing right away. Doing the hard thing, which I think gives you a chance. It's a log road though. 

I suggest you read some stories from other men who have been betrayed because they will probably give you insight that your husband in his damaged state just won't have the trust or strength right now to give. Men don't say it but it affects our feeling of self worth. Sexual prowess. Desirability. Masculinity, and just worth as a Men, Fathers, husbands. He is probably doubting all those things in some way right now. He is also thinking I am dedicating my life to this women and all it took for this new (and this guy is a very new member of your life right?) was a few nice words and a kiss. Eventually he will come to terms that it is deeper then that and really not about him at all but in a very shallow way there is some truth to that. And we as men have been raised rightly or wrongly that doing things like working hard at our jobs and providing is what makes us worthy, desirable and keep our wives loyal. So it's a very difficult mind-**** to have the spouse quick to give away what we think is hard earned. Again it's a lot deeper then that but this is how men think and good luck trying to get us to think otherwise. 

I don't say that to make you feel bad but to give you and idea of what he is thinking. 

SurvivingInfidelity.com is probably the most consistent site when it comes to perspectives of those being cheat on. We get a lot here but we get all kinds of stuff. Also the Wayward part could really be a good resource for you. There are a lot of good posters there who have changed for the better. A lot here too though so I would encourage you to stay here as well. 

The books listed are also a good source. You have taken the best first steps.


----------



## Tilted 1

I agree with icelander as a male perspective.


----------



## personofinterest

Tilted 1 said:


> I agree with icelander as a male perspective.


 Welcome to the forum. This particular couple is trying to reconcile.


----------



## wilson

sokillme said:


> Be careful with this. This is just a side of yourself that you didn't know about until now. Look we all have bad side of ourselves but when you say it like that it sound like it just happened. Don't dismiss it so easily. There may be other aspects of this side of your character that are affected that have nothing to do with sex.


I was also pondering this. Based on how quickly things went from nothing to sex and how you describe it like an out-of-body experience, I wouldn't be surprised if you're susceptible to this kind of behavior in other situations. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the first time you walked into a casino, you managed to gamble away all your savings and the kids college fund. It may be that whatever moral gatekeeper you have in your brain gets turned off in some situations. Maybe it's just sex, or maybe it can happen in other situations as well. It sounds like you had a tumultuous childhood, so it's not all that surprising. Hopefully your therapist can help you work through this and give you some tools to manage it.


----------



## Tobyboy

Notalwaysstrong said:


> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


See. This statement here will change the trajectory of the advise you will get here. Give it time, and before you know it.........we’ll turn your bs into the cheater and you the long suffering victim.


----------



## sokillme

Notalwaysstrong said:


> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


He may be in shock or he may be avoiding it. Doesn't matter and you can't force him so just continue to do the work. If you learn something about yourself tell him. Also don't expect it to continue this way. The stages are a kind of grief, anger, acceptance and all that. Most say it takes 2 years.


----------



## sokillme

wilson said:


> I was also pondering this. Based on how quickly things went from nothing to sex and how you describe it like an out-of-body experience, I wouldn't be surprised if you're susceptible to this kind of behavior in other situations. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the first time you walked into a casino, you managed to gamble away all your savings and the kids college fund. It may be that whatever moral gatekeeper you have in your brain gets turned off in some situations. Maybe it's just sex, or maybe it can happen in other situations as well. It sounds like you had a tumultuous childhood, so it's not all that surprising. Hopefully your therapist can help you work through this and give you some tools to manage it.


Or it may be more subtle. Like she says alcohol has contributed to anger problems. Whatever it is it's good to not see it as just an "out of body experience" as you put it, but to really did down deep.


----------



## stillthinking

Looks like he is trying to rug sweep it away 

Just be aware that around the 3 to 5 month mark most betrayed husbands enter the anger phase. The initial shock wears off. The immediate knee jerk response to reconcile at all costs, will be reconsidered. The reality starts to settle in. The mindmovies crank up even worse than before. Sex usually tapers off, stops completely, or just becomes angry sex for physical release. The fact that you still live in the same house/neighborhood will trigger him. As will anything that reminds him of that night.

When this happens, buckle up.


----------



## sokillme

OP truthfully? Was there any flirting or sense that you and this guy had an attraction before this? It's a pretty bold move to move just to sex with your friends wife especially if there is a chance she is going to say no and maybe expose you. But if you have been testing and pushing the boundaries then it's not such a leap. Are you sure there wasn't signs, maybe even now signs in hindsight that you see you were missing? Maybe that could be part of the problem and why you didn't shut it down, maybe you are not as good at reading situations as you think.

At least something to honestly think about and consider.


----------



## Noble1

Sorry to hear about your situation, even if you were the source of the issue this time around.

Posting on here looking for advice is very brave of you considering the audience that usually follows these threads - that being said, I'm sure there is lots of good advice you are getting.

From what you have posted, you are doing the right things in making things "easier" for your husband to cope and deal.

My question is how did your husband 'infidelity' get handled in the past as, in my opinion only, does change the dynamic of the situation? 

Not saying what you did was ok but, for me only, does change the perception of the story for me.

Good luck.


----------



## Diana7

Notalwaysstrong said:


> This happened a month ago. My husband was very angry, then hurt. He told me he felt dead inside. He’s stated he’s happy that I’m getting counseling but it’s sucks that it was at his expense. He’s also told me that he feels double betrayed by not only me but his friend.
> 
> I never get defensive with him but try to understand his pain and let him know how sorry I am for the choices I made.


You dont need counselling to find our why you cheated. That's obvious. You have no boundaries and cant be trusted. However you do need marriage counselling so that he is able to let you know his pain and betrayal.


----------



## personofinterest

Interesting that certain posters completely glossed over HIS previous cheating....


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> This happened a month ago. My husband was very angry, then hurt. He told me he felt dead inside. He’s stated he’s happy that I’m getting counseling but it’s sucks that it was at his expense. He’s also told me that he feels double betrayed by not only me but his friend.
> 
> I never get defensive with him but try to understand his pain and let him know how sorry I am for the choices I made.
> 
> 
> 
> You dont need counselling to find our why you cheated. That's obvious. You have no boundaries and cant be trusted. However you do need marriage counselling so that he is able to let you know his pain and betrayal.
Click to expand...

Since he cheated on her, she probably has some understanding of the pain.


----------



## oldtruck

Notalwaysstrong said:


> You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted. I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.
> 
> We have cut them out and stopped all contact.
> 
> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.


You need to tell the OMW. Have you done this?


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

sokillme said:


> OP truthfully? Was there any flirting or sense that you and this guy had an attraction before this? It's a pretty bold move to move just to sex with your friends wife especially if there is a chance she is going to say no and maybe expose you. But if you have been testing and pushing the boundaries then it's not such a leap. Are you sure there wasn't signs, maybe even now signs in hindsight that you see you were missing? Maybe that could be part of the problem and why you didn't shut it down, maybe you are not as good at reading situations as you think.
> 
> At least something to honestly think about and consider.


Honestly, I never flirted with him or vice versus. Even in hindsight I try to think of any signs that were there. Then again we’ve hung out while we were all drinking even woke up remembering very little or nothing. (This was before our son and when we were younger party phase)


----------



## oldtruck

OP, you told your BH everything. You answered all of his questions. He is not talking
about the affair because he now knows everything. At this point it is best that you
do not bring up the affair because he is not wanting to talk about it.

Wait for him to bring up the affair. Let him control when he wants to talk about it. 
Be willing to talk when he does is the best thing you can do. Talking about the 
affair keeps the memories fresh which hinders his healing.

Important question, does the OMW know about the affair with you and her WH?


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Noble1 said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation, even if you were the source of the issue this time around.
> 
> Posting on here looking for advice is very brave of you considering the audience that usually follows these threads - that being said, I'm sure there is lots of good advice you are getting.
> 
> From what you have posted, you are doing the right things in making things "easier" for your husband to cope and deal.
> 
> My question is how did your husband 'infidelity' get handled in the past as, in my opinion only, does change the dynamic of the situation?
> 
> Not saying what you did was ok but, for me only, does change the perception of the story for me.
> 
> Good luck.


When I found out about his infidelity it was 3 weeks before our wedding and she was supposed to be a bridesmaid. So I kicked her out of the wedding and had a friend step in. He was sorry but he never really gave me the details finally after a year of arguing he said get over it or we aren’t going to stay married. So I never brought it up again until my ex best friend wrote me a long letter apologizing for everything. So I decided to have dinner with her and possibly start a new friendship. My thought was I forgave him so I should forgive her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Notalwaysstrong said:


> When I found out about his infidelity it was 3 weeks before our wedding and she was supposed to be a bridesmaid. So I kicked her out of the wedding and had a friend step in. He was sorry but he never really gave me the details finally after a year of arguing he said get over it or we aren’t going to stay married. So I never brought it up again until my ex best friend wrote me a long letter apologizing for everything. So I decided to have dinner with her and possibly start a new friendship. My thought was I forgave him so I should forgive her.


I have to hand it too @SunCMars for his insight….perhaps now your husband sees this relationship as balance in a weird sense, it doe snot mean that there is still a lot of work ahead for both of you but his behavior may reflect on what he did to you? that should be something you talk about in couple couseling. 
Now i am going on a limb, and i might very well be wrong but i wonder on some subconscious level whether you destroyed the relationship with his friend as a means of getting back by him destroying your friendship with the girl he cheated with. You take my rook i take your bishop. just a thought.


----------



## sokillme

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Honestly, I never flirted with him or vice versus. Even in hindsight I try to think of any signs that were there. Then again we’ve hung out while we were all drinking even woke up remembering very little or nothing. (This was before our son and when we were younger party phase)


What's the timeline I thought it was an old friend of your husband who just came back into your life. I thought they were recent. How old is your son?


----------



## sokillme

Notalwaysstrong said:


> When I found out about his infidelity it was 3 weeks before our wedding and she was supposed to be a bridesmaid. So I kicked her out of the wedding and had a friend step in. He was sorry but he never really gave me the details finally after a year of arguing he said get over it or we aren’t going to stay married. So I never brought it up again until my ex best friend wrote me a long letter apologizing for everything. So I decided to have dinner with her and possibly start a new friendship. My thought was I forgave him so I should forgive her.


I know you said this wasn't a part of what happened but how could it not be at least a little (and I don't blame you). You should look into this.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

sokillme said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, I never flirted with him or vice versus. Even in hindsight I try to think of any signs that were there. Then again we’ve hung out while we were all drinking even woke up remembering very little or nothing. (This was before our son and when we were younger party phase)
> 
> 
> 
> What's the timeline I thought it was an old friend of your husband who just came back into your life. I thought they were recent. How old is your son?
Click to expand...

We started hanging out with them about 5 years ago but we only hung out maybe 2 times a year. We just started hanging out more the last few months because we moved closer only about 15 mins away from each other. My son is 1 1/2


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

sokillme said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I found out about his infidelity it was 3 weeks before our wedding and she was supposed to be a bridesmaid. So I kicked her out of the wedding and had a friend step in. He was sorry but he never really gave me the details finally after a year of arguing he said get over it or we aren’t going to stay married. So I never brought it up again until my ex best friend wrote me a long letter apologizing for everything. So I decided to have dinner with her and possibly start a new friendship. My thought was I forgave him so I should forgive her.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you said this wasn't a part of what happened but how could it not be at least a little (and I don't blame you). You should look into this.
Click to expand...

I think you’re right and is something I’m going to mention to my counselor. I’m also not sure if it has something to do with my abandonment issues...push them away before they leave me. I feel like I’m learning a lot about myself with this


----------



## CraigBesuden

My wife and I have friends who had some similar issues. They’ve known each other since kindergarten. While in college, he was dating her but had a girlfriend back home (or vice versa). She never forgot about that.

Maybe 10-15 years ago, they were struggling with infertility. Then, finally, about 5-10 years ago, she got pregnant. We heard through the grapevine that she confessed that her lover was the father, not him. She miscarried.

Things were rocky for a while but they’re still together.


----------



## blazer prophet

Notalwaysstrong said:


> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back.


Hello. Takes guts to post this here. Kudos.

I have intentionally not read any other posts aside from your first one and wanted to provide my $0.02 as a betrayed spouse. My advice is going to be blunt, but not intended to offend. Please read it all the way thru.

IMHO, faith and trust are gone forever. I wouldn't try and earn them back. The reason being is that trust & faith are magically imputed into a marriage at the start. Like magic. But faith & trust are also born from facts. Those facts state that in my mind (trust) and in my heart (faith) I know my spouse will never betray me. Now, the facts have changed to 'you have betrayed me'. Those facts will never change.

So what to do?

On a day to day basis moving forward, prove your faithfulness to yourself. You need to live with yourself and see yourself in the mirror. If you can do that, he will have nothing to further accuse you of and that is your saving grace. I believe that if you are faithful to the point you don't even have place yourself in the remote position to betray, he will notice in time. It will all be to your credit.

I wish you well.


----------



## attheend02

blazer prophet said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, faith and trust are gone forever. I wouldn't try and earn them back. The reason being is that trust & faith are magically imputed into a marriage at the start. Like magic. But faith & trust are also born from facts. Those facts state that in my mind (trust) and in my heart (faith) I know my spouse will never betray me. Now, the facts have changed to 'you have betrayed me'. Those facts will never change.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this... Trust is implicit (not magic) in the beginning for a healthy relationship.
> 
> It is much more difficult if not impossible to achieve trust after a betrayal.
> 
> 
> Good luck. I hope you achieve what you truly desire.
Click to expand...


----------



## blazer prophet

attheend02 said:


> blazer prophet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this... Trust is implicit (not magic) in the beginning for a healthy relationship.
> 
> It is much more difficult if not impossible to achieve trust after a betrayal.
> 
> 
> Good luck. I hope you achieve what you truly desire.
> 
> 
> 
> I like magic.......
Click to expand...


----------



## sokillme

Except in this case he did it first so I am not sure how much Trust is a factor in his relationship. Some people romanticize their partners and relationships and they need that for it to work. I'm not so sure people who cheat and then lie about it for years need or expect that. The point being the trust thing may just not be how he thinks about relationships.


----------



## 269370

I think you are gonna be ok. You both seem to have made mistakes.
I wouldn’t force him to talk to you (you mentioned you find it weird that he goes about his life as if nothing happened). If he needs to talk, he will talk. Otherwise he just maybe wants to forget about it.

One thing, I don’t quite understand (and why I thought it might have just been kissing) how you managed to have intercourse in your house, with both your husband and his wife in the house too...Wouldn’t your husband normally wait up for you to go to bed with him?
We have a big house...I don’t see any way how I could have sex with anyone, while my wife was also in the house...without her noticing.

Also you don’t talk much about your feelings towards the other guy; I presume you didn’t sleep with him because you felt overpowered, you slept with him because you had feelings for him, surely?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

CraigBesuden said:


> REDACTED.


Sounds like the garage but I'm wondering why this is pertinent?


----------



## Oldtimer

Unfortunately, I’m not one of the very nice people who post here, I read your post early this morning and mulled over it all day. As you said, you’ve been an open book since you told your husband, this is good as well as your going to counseling, but and there’s always a but! 

1) you said you were wasted, but not wasted enough to decide to clean your garage after your husband and the OBS went to bed. Leaving you with the POSOM. My question is that if you had the wherewithal to clean the garage as you didn’t want the smell of beer in it, why did you not have the wherewithal to say no to the POSOM’s advances? We’re I as wasted as you say you were, I would have said the hell with it, I’m going to bed.

2) I’ve with many people both with and without mental health issues and still do. Do you know what? I’ve heard them talk about many issues, sexual abuse, physical abuse , mental abuse. Many had FOO issues, but most if not all, even some through a haze of alcohol, knew right from wrong and took ownership of their screwups. I’ve had my own issues with alcohol and my FOO issues aren’t the nicest around. I understand that you may have suffered from PPD as well, but lady, you are a new mom and you ****ed this guy in yours and husbands home, with husband, his wife and your child within a very short distance of where they lay sleeping. So disrespectful.

Don’t throw knives people, I read about the infidelity on your husbands part as well. I will tag ******* to his name. I’ve seen some posts on here where many would say that he did it before the wedding. Wrong, you should have walked away from him before the wedding because it was out there.

3) Love? I for one can’t understand that within a month of doing this you state that you love your husband. Where was the love that night? A few ego kibbles, a touch and kiss and bingo.

I know this will be an unpopular post, but it’s my opinion. Lady, I’m sorry for sounding harsh, but your post and others have triggered me hugely. I’m not trying to hurt you, but these are things you may want to consider in your deliberations and I apologize in advance if it does. Regardless of whether you and hubby decide to R or D, I do wish you nothing but the best. 

I do think you both have a lot of work to do and I hope you keep posting as there’s so many good people here to offer you advice.

OT

I would also like to add, ditch the drinking.


----------



## TAMAT

NAS,

One important point you need to get tested for STDs, I suspect the OM is a serial cheater and may be involved with women other than you and his wife. This increases the likelihood he gave you something.

Bear in mind that wherever body parts had sexual contact with OM will have to be monitored for HPV related cancer for the rest of your life same for your H. Men seem to be especially vulnerable to HPV related mouth cancer.

I say that OM may be a serial cheater because it sounds like he had this all planned out and even his line about keeping it a secret was one he used before.


----------



## TAMAT

NAS,

As for this being the last thing you would ever do, often serial cheating OMs go after that kind of woman because they know the shame will keep them from confessing.


----------



## ConanHub

TAMAT said:


> NAS,
> 
> One important point you need to get tested for STDs, I suspect the OM is a serial cheater and may be involved with women other than you and his wife. This increases the likelihood he gave you something.
> 
> Bear in mind that wherever body parts had sexual contact with OM will have to be monitored for HPV related cancer for the rest of your life same for your H. Men seem to be especially vulnerable to HPV related mouth cancer.
> 
> I say that OM may be a serial cheater because it sounds like he had this all planned out and even his line about keeping it a secret was one he used before.


She did post about STD tests.


----------



## MattMatt

It's not his love you need to earn back. It's his trust.


----------



## MattMatt

And it was a silly drunken revenge affair?

Been there! Done that! Got the t-shirt! 

I hope you can both get over this and through it.


----------



## skerzoid

Notalwaysstrong said:


> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> He’s also acting like it never happened. We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


What your husband is doing is called rug sweeping. This not a good idea. It will come back to haunt you. It's best to get it out and heal. He may be strong enough but most aren't. There is a guy that goes by the handle "waitedwaytoolong" over on survivnginfidelity.com that caught his wife in a 3 week affair. They tried to rug sweep it but 5 years later he decided he couldn't forgive her, and divorced her after a 30 year marriage. She was devastated.

Here's a link to some of his posts; https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/profiles.asp?UserID=51519&Show=1

I am just saying, its best to get it out or it may fester over the years.


----------



## Dyokemm

personofinterest said:


> Of course, that is not what THIS couple has decided to do so far. So....maybe we should focus on tips for that?


100% correct.

Even if I personally would agree with Icelander in my own life.....

I an NOT other posters.

Advice should be given to help an OP reach the goal they are seeking to reach.

Calling out things like rugsweeping or an unremorseful WS should not be done to convince someone who wants R to ‘switch teams’ to D.....it should be presented to an OP as a roadblock to the goal they want.

Same thing when posting to a WS who is looking to fix their M (like OP in this thread)......telling them its hopeless or they don’t deserve R is not useful.....

Pointing out to them that they might be unremorseful or still being selfish, so they can hopefully address those and move towards what they want is entirely different.

Simply crushing them further is essentially just personal venting.....and totally useless to the poster.


----------



## sunsetmist

In post #37, it sounded like you were a victim of childhood sexual abuse. Please thoroughly discuss this with a counselor who has experience in these matters. Childhood sexual abuse changes everything sexual and often explains behavior that is not characteristic of the individual. There is a lot of reading on this topic after you finish with the infidelity books. Lifelong consequences can result from CSA. 

You are still in early days with regard to this betrayal. He never addressed his infidelity with your 'so called' friend. You really do not know what all happened, how many times, or why. I would never be her 'friend' again, no matter how long her regretful letter was. This involves much more than forgiveness.


----------



## sokillme

MattMatt said:


> And it was a silly drunken revenge affair?
> 
> Been there! Done that! Got the t-shirt!
> 
> I hope you can both get over this and through it.


The words silly and affair should never be put together in a sentence. No affair is silly.


----------



## snerg

Notalwaysstrong said:


> You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom *I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted.* I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.
> 
> We have cut them out and stopped all contact.
> 
> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.


This line of thought was rage inducing for me.

Have you told your husband this?

I don't know you from Adam. If you told me this, and I was your husband, I would be gone.

Talk with you counselor about what happened in your childhood/young adulthood that put this into your head.
okay, I see where you explain your young life and your counselor even states that there are issues

I'm not off the first page yet so I have yet to read where your husband has realized the double betrayal yet.
I see where your husband said he felt dead inside - be aware. Rage level hasn't hit yet.

At the least, please say that you or your husband told his wife. She deserves to know what a special kind of person her husband is.


----------



## ABHale

Notalwaysstrong said:


> You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted. I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.
> 
> We have cut them out and stopped all contact.
> 
> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.


Would you have stayed with your husband if the roles were reversed?

This will not end well if your husband just sweeps this under the rug. 

Would you let your husband even the score.


----------



## ABHale

You can’t earn back what has been destroyed. 

You have to start from scratch.


----------



## faithfulman

@Notalwaysstrong - my take:

Your husband didn't get a handjob from your friend all those years ago. He ****ed her.

Because you caught her on top of him, and that is not where one's hand emits from.

And honestly, handjobs are not much of a thing after junior high.

Your husband was "sorry" but remorseless and then he threatened you with divorce unless you held your pain within and stopped bothering him.

He forced you to rugsweep.

This was cruel.

This festered within you for years.

Then, all these years later you serve him a cold dish of his own medicine, a rhyming betrayal of ****ing HIS FRIEND right under his nose just as he did yours.

And then you told him about it! All the details.

***

I'm not saying what you did was "right".... but I get it!

So are you "even" now?

I'd say yes, but I don't think your husband is a very good guy.

It's okay for him, but not for you.

If I had to bet, he is now unchained and this situation will eventually devolve into further infidelity - from him.

***

I'm sorry, I don't have the same optimism for the future of your relationship that others have.

And honestly, I think you two may be better on your own.

Of course, this is just the opinion of a random stranger on the internet who doesn't know either of you.

Good luck.


----------



## faithfulman

The other thing is that "earning his love back" is the wrong goal.

It doesn't work like that. You're trying to control the outcome and you just can't.

Nobody can say do A, B, and C and love comes back.

The best you can do is try to help yourself as much as possible, and try to help him as much as possible.

If that's what you want to do.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

faithfulman said:


> @Notalwaysstrong - my take:
> 
> Your husband didn't get a handjob from your friend all those years ago. He ****ed her.
> 
> Because you caught her on top of him, and that is not where one's hand emits from.
> 
> And honestly, handjobs are not much of a thing after junior high.
> 
> Your husband was "sorry" but remorseless and then he threatened you with divorce unless you held your pain within and stopped bothering him.
> 
> He forced you to rugsweep.
> 
> This was cruel.
> 
> This festered within you for years.
> 
> Then, all these years later you serve him a cold dish of his own medicine, a rhyming betrayal of ****ing HIS FRIEND right under his nose just as he did yours.
> 
> And then you told him about it! All the details.
> 
> ***
> 
> I'm not saying what you did was "right".... but I get it!
> 
> So are you "even" now?
> 
> I'd say yes, but I don't think your husband is a very good guy.
> 
> It's okay for him, but not for you.
> 
> If I had to bet, he is now unchained and this situation will eventually devolve into further infidelity - from him.
> 
> ***
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't have the same optimism for the future of your relationship that others have.
> 
> And honestly, I think you two may be better on your own.
> 
> Of course, this is just the opinion of a random stranger on the internet who doesn't know either of you.
> 
> Good luck.


 This^ pretty much nails it. I'd also add that he forced you to rugsweep which might explain his thought processes on why he won't talk with you now about your infidelity.

@Notalwaysstrong, Did you do any acts with the OM that you wouldn't do with your husband? If so this may open a whole other can of worms so be ready for that as well.


----------



## Wolfman1968

VladDracul said:


> Don't be too hard on yourself. You had a hall pass of sorts for him doing your girlfriend. Hey, the playing field is level now so both of you need to move past it. Put him on this site and I'll remind him of that.



I disagree with this perspective. 

If people really resolve and heal from the affair/cheating, then I don't think you can claim a "hall pass" indefinitely. Either the marriage has started on the healing track or it hasn't. You can't just keep inflicting additional damage on the marriage. How long is the "hall pass" good for? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Is it fine for a marriage to go through a TRUE reconciliation, the for the betrayed partner to pull out a "hall pass" 10 years later, when the wayward thought all was resolved and healing had occurred? Does even a former wayward deserve that? Do waywards who have made the effort, reconciled, and built a new marriage have to live for their rest of their lives with the threat of a "hall pass" that they will have to suck up because of the past? (Note, I am talking about true reconciliation, not rug-sweeping or even denial by the cheater.)

The OP posts that she has forgiven her husband, and even her friend for the betrayal. She indicates that she had moved past it, and initially even denied that it played a role. *I'm going to take her at her word.* Sure, it is possible that, through counseling, she might "explore and uncover" deep-seated, unacknowledged resentment as a hidden psychological motivation, but sometimes I think it is also easy to have a counselor talk you into believing things that weren't really there to begin with. I think that is especially true when the alternate narrative opens the door to alleviating part of the guilt by hanging some of the blame on past, supposedly forgiven, hurt. It would be pretty attractive for anyone to embrace that belief, even if it may not actually be true.

Although most of the time cheating leads to the destruction of the relationship, we have seen some instances where true healing and reconciliation has occurred. For example, I think that @No Longer Lonely Husband and @Affaircare are such examples. I think that if you suggested in person to @No Longer Lonely Husband that he is entitled to a "hall pass", he might punch you in the face for: a) suggesting that was in his character, and b)suggesting that his beloved wife deserves to be hurt and c) suggesting something that would harm his marriage. Likewise, when her late husband was still alive, do you really think you would have been in the right to tell @Affaircare that she should expect him to cash in a "hall pass", after all the effort she made to heal her husband and her marriage?

No, at some time, if there really IS a TRUE reconciliation, the past has to be forgiven, even if never completely forgotten, and a "hall pass" no longer exists (if it ever did).


----------



## Cynthia

I think what you did has a lot to do with your husband cheating on you before you were married.

I also think your husband and "friend" are still lying to you about what happened. If what they said was true, she wouldn't have been on top of him. Likely you know that, but haven't really faced it, thus you cheated due to unresolved lies from your husband and "friend".

You came clean because you are not a liar.

Are you still friends with the woman you caught your husband with? Has anything happened recently that would trigger you to take revenge at this late date?


----------



## Cynthia

faithfulman said:


> @Notalwaysstrong - my take:
> 
> Your husband didn't get a handjob from your friend all those years ago. He ****ed her.
> 
> Because you caught her on top of him, and that is not where one's hand emits from.
> 
> And honestly, handjobs are not much of a thing after junior high.
> 
> Your husband was "sorry" but remorseless and then he threatened you with divorce unless you held your pain within and stopped bothering him.
> 
> He forced you to rugsweep.
> 
> This was cruel.
> 
> This festered within you for years.
> 
> Then, all these years later you serve him a cold dish of his own medicine, a rhyming betrayal of ****ing HIS FRIEND right under his nose just as he did yours.
> 
> And then you told him about it! All the details.
> 
> ***
> 
> I'm not saying what you did was "right".... but I get it!
> 
> So are you "even" now?
> 
> I'd say yes, but I don't think your husband is a very good guy.
> 
> It's okay for him, but not for you.
> 
> If I had to bet, he is now unchained and this situation will eventually devolve into further infidelity - from him.
> 
> ***
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't have the same optimism for the future of your relationship that others have.
> 
> And honestly, I think you two may be better on your own.
> 
> Of course, this is just the opinion of a random stranger on the internet who doesn't know either of you.
> 
> Good luck.


Exactly. Your husband is now a ticking time bomb. Don't let him rug sweep all of this anymore. This has to stop or it's not only going to wreck you, but your son as well. He will be caught up in all of this. 

I can see your husband deciding that he can now do whatever he wants and you will feel powerless to stop it, because of your self-loathing. Please stay in therapy and get to the bottom of this. Not only for you, but for your son.

Your plan should be to live an authentic life and have a healthy marriage where you have each other's backs, but instead you are trying to get him to love you again. That is that is the wrong approach. 

I'm not saying what you did was right or okay. It wasn't. It was a terrible thing to do. But trying to make up for it and get your husband to love you isn't the answer to your problems or the marriage problems.


----------



## MattMatt

sokillme said:


> The words silly and affair should never be put together in a sentence. No affair is silly.


An affair between two near alcoholic nerds engendered by a mutual love of Star Trek: Voyager? That's got to be the epitome of silly.


----------



## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> You dont need counselling to find our why you cheated. That's obvious. You have no boundaries and cant be trusted. However you do need marriage counselling so that he is able to let you know his pain and betrayal.


*Moderator note:-*

Thank you for your magical via the Internet diagnosis. 

Please do not pull this nonsense again.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Notalwaysstrong said:


> When I found out about his infidelity it was 3 weeks before our wedding and she was supposed to be a bridesmaid. So I kicked her out of the wedding and had a friend step in. He was sorry but he never really gave me the details finally after a year of arguing he said get over it or we aren’t going to stay married. So I never brought it up again until my ex best friend wrote me a long letter apologizing for everything. So I decided to have dinner with her and possibly start a new friendship. My thought was I forgave him so I should forgive her.


So _*SHE'S*_ the one to be banished from your life and you* reward *this lying cheating snake for his **** behavior by hardly discussing it at all, and basically letting it go because the liar STILL wouldn't tell you the truth. He should have been booted to the curb right along with your friend.

I had sympathy for his pain at first until I got to the part about what *he* did with your friend, and how he lied to your face for TWO YEARS about it. So now I have zero sympathy for him. This is just your standard case of 'what goes around comes around,' and he just got *exactly *what was coming to him, is all. And CynthiaDe is right on TWO counts - one, it was most likely a whole lot MORE than just a 'hand job' he got from your friend and two, don't be surprised when he uses this to go out and do it again. 

Personally, I think he's got more secrets he plans on taking to the grave with him. I think you're eventually going to discover all kinds of other nasty secrets about him.

Secondly, because he's such a slimy liar who OBVIOUSLY has no moral compass or conscience (like *you* do), he *very easily* kept his dirty little secret from you before your friend spilled the beans. He would have taken it to the grave with him - that's how little he gives a **** about being honest with you and respecting you. Based on that fact, do you honestly believe that your girlfriend was the only time he's ever cheated on you? You've only seen the tip of the iceberg with this guy.

And before anyone starts crying to me about how I've 'ignored' HER cheating but eviscerated her husband for doing it, the difference here is that the OP is honestly remorseful for her actions and *immediately* told him what happened. She could have chosen to be a sleaze ball and planned on taking it to the grave with her and NEVER told him - like her husband was _happily_ planning on doing until someone ELSE told on him. But instead, the OP bared her soul to him the very next morning and as hurtful as it was for her, told him the absolute *truth* no matter how humiliating and painful it was for her. She's a TRUE example of remorse (which is rarer than frog's hair). He, on the other hand, wouldn't know what remorse IS if you shoved it up his ass with a pitchfork.

THAT'S the difference between these two.

OP, there's a DRASTIC imbalance between the two of you when it comes to honesty and integrity. You have a ton of it, he has *NONE*. You can't fix that. Only HE can.


----------



## CraigBesuden

The ideal situation would be if your husband said, “Look, I acted inappropriately with your friend in the past. Now you acted inappropriately with my friend. We’re even now. Let’s try our best to forgive and forget, and no more cheating.”

I hope that’s his thought process. But, as some have suggested, he may look at your indiscretion as justification for him to do more.


----------



## VladDracul

Wolfman1968 said:


> I disagree with this perspective.
> 
> If people really resolve and heal from the affair/cheating, then I don't think you can claim a "hall pass" indefinitely.


How is her old man going to be able to say with a straight face, "This is it. You cheated on me and we're done"? Whether its ok for the betrayed to hold a hall pass for the spouse's cheating, it happens. Cheating always requires three elements; 1. motive, 2. opportunity, and 3. rationalization/justification (unless youre a sociopath). If at some later point in life and the relationship has hit a snag, and the opportunity presents itself, your spouses past "misdemeanors" will provide additional and a big rationalization to go with the flow. And what's the saying? "Revenge is a dish best served cold."


----------



## personofinterest

snerg said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom *I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted.* I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.
> 
> We have cut them out and stopped all contact.
> 
> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.
> 
> 
> 
> This line of thought was rage inducing for me.
> 
> Have you told your husband this?
> 
> I don't know you from Adam. If you told me this, and I was your husband, I would be gone.
> 
> Talk with you counselor about what happened in your childhood/young adulthood that put this into your head.
> okay, I see where you explain your young life and your counselor even states that there are issues
> 
> I'm not off the first page yet so I have yet to read where your husband has realized the double betrayal yet.
> I see where your husband said he felt dead inside - be aware. Rage level hasn't hit yet.
> 
> At the least, please say that you or your husband told his wife. She deserves to know what a special kind of person her husband is.
Click to expand...

 You might also want to read where he cheated on her before you project all over the thread


----------



## personofinterest

ABHale said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are 100% correct it was a choice and I should have stopped it but I didn’t. Our only ongoing connection is that we were friends. With being a new mom I’ve been struggling with my body and low self esteem. So I think it was nice to be wanted. I’m still working on the why with my counselor and I’m not trying to find excuses for what I did but you’re right I need to forthcoming that it was a choice.
> 
> We have cut them out and stopped all contact.
> 
> I’m okay with harsh if people are being honest and not mean. I’m seeking advice to better myself so I can be a better person, wife and mother.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you have stayed with your husband if the roles were reversed?
> 
> This will not end well if your husband just sweeps this under the rug.
> 
> Would you let your husband even the score.
Click to expand...

 Lol, read more closely. He cheated 1st


----------



## 269370

CraigBesuden said:


> The ideal situation would be if your husband said, “Look, I acted inappropriately with your friend in the past. Now you acted inappropriately with my friend. We’re even now. Let’s try our best to forgive and forget, and no more cheating.”



I agree. But how many hand job strokes versus ins and outs is supposed to be evens stevens? I hope it won’t come to bargaining...Plus they weren’t married then (still a betrayal).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aine

Notalwaysstrong said:


> I see there is confusion. Yes, sex did happen and yes I have told my husband everything. I maybe really messed up and did a horrible thing but I’m a very honest person and I saw no positives in omitting anything. He needed to hear everything and I’ve told him what happened more than once and answered any questions for details. I read articles on how to appropriately deliver my infidelity. I wanted to handle the situation the best I could to make sure I was giving my marriage it’s best chance to survive.
> 
> A little background on me:
> I come from a trouble childhood of drugs, sexual abuse and abandonment. I watched my dad die and my mom leave and grew up in foster care. I have strived to make sure that my childhood didn’t affect who I am as an adult. I still got good grades, went to college, got a good job, live in a beautiful house and suppress any part of my childhood however, I suffer with severe anxiety, depression and anger. My counselor says that my foundation has cracks and not confronting the hurt and pain is a problem. Alcohol was my coping mechanism. However, my past and the fact I was drinking does not make what I did okay in any means but is more so helping me figure out why I let my boundaries drop.
> 
> Background on our relationship:
> We have been together for 11 years and married for 4 and have one son. There has been infidelity before, before we were married my husband, boyfriend at the time hooked up with my best friend while I was sleeping 20ft away in a camper. They did not have sex but there was a kiss and handjob involved. I had got up to see why they weren’t in the tent and saw her on top of him. They lied to me for 2 years and said nothing happened. Fast forward to 1 month before our wedding she was supposed to be a bridesmaid and one night at dinner SHE told me what happened. He never planned on telling me. I remember the hurt I felt and that’s why I instantly came clean and didn’t lie.
> 
> Do I think my ONS was revenge? I thought about this myself and I truly don’t believe so because I had forgiven and healed. I think the problem lies solely within me.
> 
> What’s happened so far:
> Intimacy has been restored (after std test came back clear)
> No contact with the other couple
> He told me he loves me and meant it
> I think we have a lot of stuff to work on and It will always be a work in progress. I just want to make sure I’m doing everything in my power to confront what happened and learn from it and do things everyday to show my husband how sorry I am.


I am sorry but the infidelity by your H and his lying/covering up for 2 years changes this whole dynamic. You may have forgiven and quite frankly you are a much better person than he is, cause you chose not to lie. 
He really doesn't have much of a moral high road here, lying for 2 years. That would have been a deal breaker for me. You say you have forgiven, but I suspect there is some latent resentment because of his choice to lie, when a spouse does that to you it sends the message that their own self preservation is more important than your pain/ Imagine it was the OW who ratted on him. You are handling this whole situation admirably but my sympathy for your H is gone I'm afraid.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Earlier I said both of you cheaters should split ways, but the more I think about it... Two cheaters together, that's some sort of universal karma and it's perfect. Carry on.

I don't think you have to earn his love back. You never had it or he wouldn't of cheated. I don't think you love him either. Fear of being alone perhaps? Fear of the unknown? Everyone has it.


----------



## aine

ABHale said:


> Would you have stayed with your husband if the roles were reversed?
> 
> This will not end well if your husband just sweeps this under the rug.
> 
> Would you let your husband even the score.


If you read her prior post, he actually cheated first, she is evening the score.


----------



## ConanHub

Lot of speculation instead of advice for OP here.:|


----------



## Taxman

So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.


----------



## SunWhiskey

Taxman said:


> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.


Agreed


----------



## ConanHub

SunWhiskey said:


> Earlier I said both of you cheaters should split ways, but the more I think about it... Two cheaters together, that's some sort of universal karma and it's perfect. Carry on.
> 
> I don't think you have to earn his love back. You never had it or he wouldn't of cheated. I don't think you love him either. Fear of being alone perhaps? Fear of the unknown? Everyone has it.


Very good. Slamming OP and her husband after she already considers herself monstrous and humbly asked for help in healing.

I am the first to say that when someone is cheating they are not loving their spouse by their actions, quite the opposite actually.

That does not mean that they don't regret betraying them and do love them.

OP did many things right after making a terrible, drunken choice.

Have anything that could actually help here instead of snide slams?

OP does not need a 2x4 across her head. She really gets it.

Even if she did need it, just slapping her without constructive advice is just cheap shots.

Got anything besides **** to throw at her?


----------



## SunWhiskey

ConanHub said:


> Very good. Slamming OP and her husband after she already considers herself monstrous and humbly asked for help in healing.
> 
> I am the first to say that when someone is cheating they are not loving their spouse by their actions, quite the opposite actually.
> 
> That does not mean that they don't regret betraying them and do love them.
> 
> OP did many things right after making a terrible, drunken choice.
> 
> Have anything that could actually help here instead of snide slams?
> 
> OP does not need a 2x4 across her head. She really gets it.
> 
> Even if she did need it, just slapping her without constructive advice is just cheap shots.
> 
> Got anything besides **** to throw at her?




Perhaps read my second line again. My advice is for them to split because I believe they don't love each-other according to their actions.

I didn't slam anyone. Best step off and toe the line before some feelings really get hurt.


----------



## personofinterest

ConanHub said:


> Lot of speculation instead of advice for OP here.<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_plain.png" border="0" alt="" title="Serious" ></a>


This the nature of people proudly wearing their chosen dysfinction.


----------



## ConanHub

Taxman said:


> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.


You are seeing that trend from speculators who are pulling the information straight from their bloated bowels because nowhere in any of OP's posts do these speculations have facts to support them.

OP is getting therapy. Maybe we should wait to see if she wants to share what the on-site professional has to say about it.

Maybe we could take the facts she has given us and try to help with the information we have instead of speculating about maybe and what if.

There have been many threads where information was hidden and the truth needed to be dug up.

This is not one of those threads.


----------



## personofinterest

SunWhiskey said:


> Taxman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed
Click to expand...

 I definitely agree that 2 wrongs do not make a right. The only reason I even mentioned his prior cheating is to balance out the predictable trend of a certain type of poster who smells blood in the water every time a female has cheated. It's their chance to spin out their own sad story that they still haven't healed from.


----------



## Casual Observer

Taxman said:


> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.


Maybe. But I think the bigger issue is how here, on TAM, the “truth” kinda dribbles out, giving out only what someone believes that can get away with, and thus altering the context substantially. Exactly like it happens in the real world. And if anonymity on TAM isn’t enough to allow the full truth required to understand, and get past, one can only imagine what’s happening in the relationship.


----------



## personofinterest

Casual Observer said:


> Taxman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe. But I think the bigger issue is how here, on TAM, the “truth” kinda dribbles out, giving out only what someone believes that can get away with, and thus altering the context substantially. Exactly like it happens in the real world. And if anonymity on TAM isn’t enough to allow the full truth required to understand, and get past, one can only imagine what’s happening in the relationship.
Click to expand...

 Then of course there is the misguided belief that we as strangers have that we are intitled to every detail just because it is anonymous. A poster doesn't have to share anything they don't want to. We don't get front row seats just because we're faceless.


----------



## ConanHub

SunWhiskey said:


> Perhaps read my second line again. My advice is for them to split because I believe they don't love each-other according to their actions.
> 
> I didn't slam anyone. Best step off and toe the line before some feelings really get hurt.


In her OP, she explained everything in a lot of detail and both of them do not desire to split.

They are working to reconcile.

You are giving a recipe for meatloaf when the thread is about preparing apple pie.

You did slam her by stating neither of them have any love for each other. Pure biased opinion on your part.


----------



## SunWhiskey

ConanHub said:


> Pure biased opinion on your part.


Hypothesis supported by the available evidence.


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame



I wanted to give you all an update. I had a GREAT counseling session yesterday and we are really starting to unravel a lot. Instead of responding to everyone who has posted on the thread I will do a general post. 

As far as the OM honestly, I’m not nor ever was attracted to him. Is he a serial cheater? Probably. does his wife know? I’m going to assume so since I haven’t received a text or message through any means and we had plans. Also my H told the OM he had to tell her or he would. 

I’m embarrassed of what I had done and the choices I made. I know that it was extremely disrespectful and I couldn’t be more regretful for the hurt I’ve caused. I am taking it as an opportunity to learn and get myself help. 

My therapist agrees that the past infidelities on my husbands part before we were married hurt me more than I thought and were more than likely one of the underlying reasons I made the choice I did. Also it could be why my H is handling it the way he is. It’s still too early in the process so I need to allow him time to really process what has happened. 

My fear of abandonment sometimes makes me make pre emptive strikes the idea of 
“ I’ll hurt you before you hurt me” or doing things to “push people away” so they can’t hurt me. —this will be something we will continue to dig deeper into — but there were a couple triggers for me that happened the weeks leading up to that night. Things I thought were small but weren’t. 

I wish I could change the title of this thread because you are all very right. I’m not earning his love back I’m earning his trust back. That will take time. 

I’m focusing on myself so I can start truly healing from my childhood, past hurts and become a stronger and more stable person. 

Right now we are at one of our lowest points in our marriage. However, people and marriages have survived worse as long as both of us are willing and actively putting in the work. I can’t and won’t push him so I will continue to work on myself and my problems. I’m truly hoping when he sees me change for the good that he will want that for himself. 

I told him this cycle of hurt and betrayal is done. We can no longer do this to each other. It’s not fair or healthy and will only continue to get more toxic. I think we are now at ground zero and need to work on our foundation before we build a new skyscraper. 

I do want to thank you all for honest advice and thoughts. You allowed me to think in a different perspective which allowed me to bring these perspectives up to my counselor.


----------



## BluesPower

personofinterest said:


> Interesting that certain posters completely glossed over HIS previous cheating....


Like with any other cheater, male or female, previous cheating is not an excuse to cheat. She for gave him, and as far as we know he has not done it again. 

This comment is a non started and is not now or will it ever excuse what SHE did...


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Wolfman1968 said:


> I disagree with this perspective.
> 
> If people really resolve and heal from the affair/cheating, then I don't think you can claim a "hall pass" indefinitely. Either the marriage has started on the healing track or it hasn't. You can't just keep inflicting additional damage on the marriage. How long is the "hall pass" good for? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Is it fine for a marriage to go through a TRUE reconciliation, the for the betrayed partner to pull out a "hall pass" 10 years later, when the wayward thought all was resolved and healing had occurred? Does even a former wayward deserve that? Do waywards who have made the effort, reconciled, and built a new marriage have to live for their rest of their lives with the threat of a "hall pass" that they will have to suck up because of the past? (Note, I am talking about true reconciliation, not rug-sweeping or even denial by the cheater.)
> 
> The OP posts that she has forgiven her husband, and even her friend for the betrayal. She indicates that she had moved past it, and initially even denied that it played a role. *I'm going to take her at her word.* Sure, it is possible that, through counseling, she might "explore and uncover" deep-seated, unacknowledged resentment as a hidden psychological motivation, but sometimes I think it is also easy to have a counselor talk you into believing things that weren't really there to begin with. I think that is especially true when the alternate narrative opens the door to alleviating part of the guilt by hanging some of the blame on past, supposedly forgiven, hurt. It would be pretty attractive for anyone to embrace that belief, even if it may not actually be true.
> 
> Although most of the time cheating leads to the destruction of the relationship, we have seen some instances where true healing and reconciliation has occurred. For example, I think that @No Longer Lonely Husband and @Affaircare are such examples. I think that if you suggested in person to @No Longer Lonely Husband that he is entitled to a "hall pass", he might punch you in the face for: a) suggesting that was in his character, and b)suggesting that his beloved wife deserves to be hurt and c) suggesting something that would harm his marriage. Likewise, when her late husband was still alive, do you really think you would have been in the right to tell @Affaircare that she should expect him to cash in a "hall pass", after all the effort she made to heal her husband and her marriage?
> 
> No, at some time, if there really IS a TRUE reconciliation, the past has to be forgiven, even if never completely forgotten, and a "hall pass" no longer exists (if it ever did).


I would never want a “hall pass”. Two wrongs do not make a right. However, the only person I would like to punch in the face is POSOM.


----------



## wilson

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Right now we are at one of our lowest points in our marriage. However, people and marriages have survived worse as long as both of us are willing and actively putting in the work. I can’t and won’t push him so I will continue to work on myself and my problems. I’m truly hoping when he sees me change for the good that he will want that for himself.
> 
> I told him this cycle of hurt and betrayal is done. We can no longer do this to each other. It’s not fair or healthy and will only continue to get more toxic. I think we are now at ground zero and need to work on our foundation before we build a new skyscraper.


I 100% agree with this. Keep working through this and there's a good chance you will come out of it alright.

Give yourself some time before doing this, but one thing you might want to consider is renewing your vows. Like you said, you are at ground zero. It's like you're starting over. On the show "Big Little Lies", one of the characters had an affair. Her husband later said that when they got married, they had no clue what their vows really meant. How could they when they didn't know what they were getting into. But now that they really know what marriage is and what those vows are supposed to mean, they really can take those vows to heart. So maybe you should do that. Redo your vows, and this time really hear what you both are saying and take the message to heart.


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## TDSC60

Notalwaysstrong said:


> These are all good points and I have already started working on most of them. My question is what do I do if he won’t get counseling? He says the problem is with me and not him which I agree but I suggested counseling for healing and he’s not interested.
> 
> *He’s also acting like it never happened.* We are living our normal lives, having sex and continue to plan our future. I’m not sure if this is part of his healing and I don’t want to push him to talk about it.


In a way you have killed your marriage and have killed the image you husband held of you as a faithful wife. Look up the steps of grieving a loss. 

Denial is one of them. 

Even if he does not admit it, your husband is grieving the loss of his marriage as he knew it and the loss of his wife as he knew her.

Anger is coming. Be prepared.


----------



## ConanHub

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I would never want a “hall pass”. Two wrongs do not make a right. However, the only person I would like to punch in the face is POSOM.


Pictures please.....>


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ConanHub said:


> Pictures please.....>


If I would have hit him had my wife not been present when the cocky sob approached me at Applebee’s a few years back😃however I likely would have wound up in court if I had gone full Parris Island on him


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> If I would have hit him had my wife not been present when the cocky sob approached me at Applebee’s a few years back😃however I likely would have wound up in court if I had gone full Parris Island on him


The law allows for such a thing in extreme circumstances as "Justifiable Homicide." 

Adultery isn't one of them. 

But there should at least have a provision for "Justifiable Ass-Whoopin'!"


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## pastasauce79

I am so sorry for the trauma you went through as a child. I feel a lot of pain and anger when I read about people who have been abused as children. 

Please keep going to therapy to heal yourself. It's very important that you heal from your childhood trauma to begin healing your marriage. Try to find out what's triggering negative behaviors or thoughts that can hurt even more your current relationship.

Also understand that to heal a relationship both partners have to work at fixing problems together. I encourage you and your husband to go to couple's therapy to understand your own family dynamics.

I really wish you the best. You really seem like a lovely and smart lady who has been through a lot.

Work on yourself first, and the rest of the pieces would fall into place.

Good luck!


----------



## BluesPower

pastasauce79 said:


> I am so sorry for the trauma you went through as a child. I feel a lot of pain and anger when I read about people who have been abused as children.
> 
> Please keep going to therapy to heal yourself. It's very important that you heal from your childhood trauma to begin healing your marriage. Try to find out what's triggering negative behaviors or thoughts that can hurt even more your current relationship.
> 
> Also understand that to heal a relationship both partners have to work at fixing problems together. I encourage you and your husband to go to couple's therapy to understand your own family dynamics.
> 
> I really wish you the best. You really seem like a lovely and smart lady who has been through a lot.
> 
> Work on yourself first, and the rest of the pieces would fall into place.
> 
> Good luck!


While this is really good advice overall, there is another consideration...

OP here HAS to be available and able to help her husband heal. While she cannot make him heal, she has to be ready to help. Because if she is not, and he somehow asks for help healing and she in not "there" for him, then it could be the death nail of the marriage...

Further, OP's H is already rug sweeping, and she has to find that fine like that allows her to help, helps him not to rug sweep, and does not push him over the edge too quickly... That is really a tall order.

The thing that OP needs to hear the most is this: IF H is allowed to rug sweep this adultery, it WILL come back to haunt them both in the future, and has a really good chance of ending the relationship altogether...


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## personofinterest

> IF H is allowed to rug sweep this adultery, it WILL come back to haunt them both in the future, and has a really good chance of ending the relationship altogether...


This is true. It is human nature. When something is not truly dealt with, it just....hangs there, always looking SOMEWHERE.. I haven't experienced it with cheating, but I have had that experience in other ways.

A lack of resolution and real healing means the triggers come over and over and the hurt cycles.

OP's husband MUST let the wound bleed. You can't just cover up cancer with a band aid.


----------



## MattMatt

SunWhiskey said:


> Hypothesis supported by the available evidence.


Actually, that's not the definition of "twaddle" in any dictionary I have seen.


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## SunWhiskey

MattMatt said:


> Actually, that's not the definition of "twaddle" in any dictionary I have seen.


That's because it is the definition of hypothesis, whereas an opinion can't be tested. :wink2:


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## VladDracul

Our girl NAS really needs to drill down on why she gave it up to this "friend". She ain't giving us her real motivation because she's not admitting the real motivation to herself. Her simply staying to clean up with the guy hanging around to finish his beer and they are suddenly drawn together like two opposite pole magnates when left alone indicates an incomplete picture. Her screen name itself my reveal something like not having the will to resist temptation that formed some time earlier. The guy likely hung around because he figured he had a shot.


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## 269370

personofinterest said:


> I definitely agree that 2 wrongs do not make a right. The only reason I even mentioned his prior cheating is to balance out the predictable trend of a certain type of poster who smells blood in the water every time a female has cheated. It's their chance to spin out their own sad story that they still haven't healed from.



And...why does it make you feel so angry?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

InMyPrime said:


> And...why does it make you feel so angry?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because they keep threadjacking trying to win arguments with their ex that they failed to have 15 or 20 years ago with their ex?

Instead they have a go at the cheating spouse of someone else on the board.

There have been instances of a BS or two coming back at the threadjacker and demanding that they stop attacking their WS, they get so bad.


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## ABHale

aine said:


> If you read her prior post, he actually cheated first, she is evening the score.


I can’t find that


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## ABHale

aine said:


> If you read her prior post, he actually cheated first, she is evening the score.


Ok found it.


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## sokillme

CraigBesuden said:


> The ideal situation would be if your husband said, “Look, I acted inappropriately with your friend in the past. Now you acted inappropriately with my friend. We’re even now. Let’s try our best to forgive and forget, and no more cheating.”
> 
> I hope that’s his thought process. But, as some have suggested, he may look at your indiscretion as justification for him to do more.


I wish he too would get counseling.


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## sokillme

VladDracul said:


> How is her old man going to be able to say with a straight face, "This is it. You cheated on me and we're done"? Whether its ok for the betrayed to hold a hall pass for the spouse's cheating, it happens. Cheating always requires three elements; 1. motive, 2. opportunity, and 3. rationalization/justification (unless youre a sociopath). If at some later point in life and the relationship has hit a snag, and the opportunity presents itself, your spouses past "misdemeanors" will provide additional and a big rationalization to go with the flow. And what's the saying? "Revenge is a dish best served cold."


Yeah it's very hard to expect and demand loyalty when you didn't shot it yourself, that's just a bridge to far. 

Thing is, seems like maybe he gets this. Like I said in my other post, I am not so sure people who can cheat like he did really value fidelity the way that some us would, so maybe he really is not as upset as some of us particularly on here would be. 

The problem might be if this becomes a dysfunctional cycle where he just sees this as a free pass to go back to his old ways.


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## sokillme

Notalwaysstrong said:


> I wanted to give you all an update. I had a GREAT counseling session yesterday and we are really starting to unravel a lot. Instead of responding to everyone who has posted on the thread I will do a general post.
> 
> As far as the OM honestly, I’m not nor ever was attracted to him. Is he a serial cheater? Probably. does his wife know? I’m going to assume so since I haven’t received a text or message through any means and we had plans. Also my H told the OM he had to tell her or he would.
> 
> I’m embarrassed of what I had done and the choices I made. I know that it was extremely disrespectful and I couldn’t be more regretful for the hurt I’ve caused. I am taking it as an opportunity to learn and get myself help.
> 
> My therapist agrees that the past infidelities on my husbands part before we were married hurt me more than I thought and were more than likely one of the underlying reasons I made the choice I did. Also it could be why my H is handling it the way he is. It’s still too early in the process so I need to allow him time to really process what has happened.
> 
> My fear of abandonment sometimes makes me make pre emptive strikes the idea of
> “ I’ll hurt you before you hurt me” or doing things to “push people away” so they can’t hurt me. —this will be something we will continue to dig deeper into — but there were a couple triggers for me that happened the weeks leading up to that night. Things I thought were small but weren’t.
> 
> I wish I could change the title of this thread because you are all very right. I’m not earning his love back I’m earning his trust back. That will take time.
> 
> I’m focusing on myself so I can start truly healing from my childhood, past hurts and become a stronger and more stable person.
> 
> Right now we are at one of our lowest points in our marriage. However, people and marriages have survived worse as long as both of us are willing and actively putting in the work. I can’t and won’t push him so I will continue to work on myself and my problems. I’m truly hoping when he sees me change for the good that he will want that for himself.
> 
> I told him this cycle of hurt and betrayal is done. We can no longer do this to each other. It’s not fair or healthy and will only continue to get more toxic. I think we are now at ground zero and need to work on our foundation before we build a new skyscraper.
> 
> I do want to thank you all for honest advice and thoughts. You allowed me to think in a different perspective which allowed me to bring these perspectives up to my counselor.


This is a good update. I think you are right to address the cycle of hurt before any more damage is done but that will take both of you. I also think that no matter what you need to work on and address the issues that you spoke of in all of this thread. 

As far as the part in red, maybe it wasn't so much revenge or "I am going to make him hurt as much as I did" as much as you felt strong temptation, were under the influence of alcohol and because he did it to you and was so callous to you afterwards, you were just like, **** it. 

I think it's hard for people to admit that if the situation was different what happened to you that night in the right context (two single people) would be fun and exciting. The problem is when you are married it is still wrong even if you feel those feelings. Doesn't mean it's not fun and exciting at the time. I think some folks when they get married and in love, are genuinely surprised that they can still the have feeling about someone else. The truth is up until the point you make a commitment, those types of feelings are what everyone is looking for. This is very different then a long term affair. 

In marriage first you need to be proactive and have boundaries to keep yourself from situations where you will be tempted, but second you need to understand just because you feel that way it doesn't mean you have to act on them. It also doesn't mean there is something wrong in your marriage. 

The thing is, and this is really what spouses who cheat fail to think about. If you cheat and brake that bond or that sacredness of fidelity, it's really hard for the betrayed spouse, that had that ripped away from them, to have the same kind of commitment if those feelings show up. 

Whenever you cheat you leave yourself and your marriage vulnerable.


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## WorkingWife

Notalwaysstrong said:


> As far as the OM honestly, I’m not nor ever was attracted to him....
> 
> My therapist agrees that the past infidelities on my husbands part before we were married hurt me more than I thought...
> 
> My fear of abandonment sometimes makes me make pre emptive strikes...
> 
> I’m focusing on myself so I can start truly healing from my childhood, past hurts and become a stronger and more stable person.
> 
> Right now we are at one of our lowest points in our marriage. However, people and marriages have survived worse as long as both of us are willing and actively putting in the work.
> 
> I told him this cycle of hurt and betrayal is done.


Great update!
I just found this thread and have not read the whole thing, but I had an immediate thought reading it:


You named yourself "not always strong"
You were never attracted to the guy.
You have a fear of abandonment.
You were feeling a little un-sexy with your post baby body.
You were drunk.
Your husband betrayed you in the past, albeit pre-marriage.

Are you a major people pleaser? Do you sometimes go along with things you don't want to do because something inside just holds you back from just saying NO when others are pushing the idea/action? Maybe deep down you are afraid of anyone not liking you if you are not agreeable?

I ask because I wonder if part of the reason you did what you did was because he caught you off guard, he was confident in what he was doing like surely you were on board with it and you felt overwhelmed by it or like you must have somehow invited the situation. Add to that you were drunk and not thinking coherently with your defenses down, and maybe anger at your husband, but really the main reason was you were unprepared for it and just let it happen out of weakness? And then maybe in the back of your mind your H's past infidelities made it seem less "wrong."

Just a thought.


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## 269370

It’s crazy how quickly these things happen. I don’t understand this, especially if there was no prior attraction/feelings. It doesn’t make sense. A kiss is one thing but the whole sex thing...requires a lot more premeditation...

I don’t think ‘who is worse’ is the point of the thread. They need to find a way forward.
The way her husband was acting after his incident (“get over yourself” kind of comment), indicates maybe they have some deeper issues with each other?
Latest post also mentions husband’s cheating ‘instances’ (plural). Were there several? 
It takes a long time to build up trust and only a second to destroy it. 


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## MattMatt

Actually this kind of "thing" can go from zero to "what the hell just happened?" In seconds or minutes flat.

As far as the one participant is concerned, anyway.

Your husband's "friend" might have done this kind of thing several times before. It's possible if that is so that you might be the first wive or partner to have the wisdom and the courage to confess.


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## Wolfman1968

Taxman said:


> So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.





VladDracul said:


> How is her old man going to be able to say with a straight face, "This is it. You cheated on me and we're done"? Whether its ok for the betrayed to hold a hall pass for the spouse's cheating, it happens. Cheating always requires three elements; 1. motive, 2. opportunity, and 3. rationalization/justification (unless youre a sociopath). If at some later point in life and the relationship has hit a snag, and the opportunity presents itself, your spouses past "misdemeanors" will provide additional and a big rationalization to go with the flow. And what's the saying? "Revenge is a dish best served cold."


I agree with the Taxman perspective above, rather than the Vlad attitude below it.

I could see the husband taking the perspective that "yeah, we both had one-night stands, but you ALSO engaged in a multi-year false pretense of forgiving me, only to pull out a 'payback' card later. So you've actually done worse/been especially cruel." It doesn't matter if any of the audience on the thread agrees with this perspective or not, the point is that the "payback/false forgiveness" situation sets up this possibility, which can lead to the one-upmanship that Taxman alludes to.

I can see that a "false forgiveness" situation could be regarded as crueler, and more damaging to the marriage, than either one of their one-night stands. (And the description of the husband's transgression is indeed also a one-night stand, he just didn't come clean as readily as the OP did.)

If I remember correctly, Taxman once related one of his many stories that described a man who told his wayward wife that he reserved the right for a payback affair. He appeared forgiving to his wife for a couple of years, so that she let her guard down. After that time, he suddenly did a 180, started his revenge affair, and I think even proceeded with or threatened to proceed with divorce anyway. Maybe Taxman can correct any misremembering I have. But the bottom line is that the false forgiveness period was regarded as especially cruel to the wayward wife, who was not actually forgiven after all, and it was far worse than just a revenge affair without the false forgiveness would have been.

This is why I disagree with the Vlad approach. Either both parties want to repair the marriage, or they don't. If getting the payback is more important than the marriage, or is a prerequisite for continuing the marriage, this suggests to me that the marriage isn't valued enough, even by the betrayed spouse. It is quite possible that a relationship will survive one stab in the back, but maybe the next one will prove too much and become fatal, even if it is a "payback". 

I think it is too easy to focus on the "payback" aspect, and forget how cruel the "false forgiveness" can really be. And whether you argue that the "payback" is deserved or not, (and maybe if you approach your relationship like some sort of ledger balance you feel it is deserved), in the end does it really serve your purpose if it kills the marriage that you supposedly valued enough to try to repair?

In a way, it's almost a corollary of what is typically told the prospective cheaters: "Don't cheat, just end the marriage and then proceed with the new relationship that you want." In this case it would be, "Don't cruelly trick your wayward spouse with a false forgiveness, only to demand payback later. Just end the marriage if you really can't forgive."

Frankly, if even I was the transgressor, I am not sure that I would want to stay in a marriage with someone who felt that it was more important to have a payback affair/ONS rather than heal the marriage. Likewise, if my wife was a wayward, and I felt that I was due a "revenge affair/hall pass", I would probably think she was better off ending the marriage since I felt that getting payback was more important than healing the marriage. That would be a sad commentary about how much I valued the marriage and how much I valued my wife.


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## MattMatt

It's possible your confession resonated with your husband and his thinking or lack thereof when HE cheated on you.

If he knows what it's like to apparently to suddenly find yourself kissing someone or having sex with them, how could he be critical of you when the same thing happened to you?

He also might be relieved that you cheated, in a way. He has got his karma, so all will be well.

Couple's therapy is an option, I feel.


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## 269370

Why does her incident needs to have anything to do with his prior behaviour? I don’t think this works like this nor was it on her mind. Otherwise she would have mentioned it straight away.
Maybe they just don’t have a very good marriage and haven’t had one for a while. This incident could reawaken them both to try harder at it, or it could just as well send them further apart. They should figure out which way they want to go forward rather than get lost and dwell on the past which now seems pointless.
A lot of couples have come out of it stronger on the other side @I shouldnthave ?


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## manfromlamancha

I agree with Wolfman in that either both parties agree to repair a marriage or there is no real reconciliation. Using what your husband did premarriage to even try to explain what you did is just plain wrong (and deep down you know it). You are clutching at any straws available now to try and absolve yourself of what you did.

My views on all of this:



Your "counsellor" appears to be trying to justify what you did instead of addressing that what you did was wrong, is done by many cheaters and is normally due to a selfish impulse (or even a thought about plan) that was acted on. Simple as that. Trying to blame your husband, being slightly drunk, the shape of your post-baby body or the alignment of the planets for your cheating is wrong. And your counsellor (if he or she were any good) would know that and know that it would be in your best interests to have you deal with that instead of try and justify it in any other way.


You say you were not attracted to the OM in any way - well you were attracted enough to be close with him (even as a friend), then kiss and make out with him, and then have sex with him (which almost certainly would have been preceded by some pretty intimate petting and foreplay). The point of this is that you really need to either stop lying to yourself (and your counsellor needs to help you with this) or you need to stop trying to rugsweep the fact that you did find another man attractive enough to **** (which is quite normal) and then did it (not as normal).


Your husband may well be feeling that this is comeuppance for whatever he did prior to being married but it is wrong to propagate this thought and it is more healthy to let him know that it is wrong for him to blame himself and that you had both chosen to get married with full knowledge of what had happened. He needs to know that you then went and broke the contract/vows/agreement that you had, that it was your fault not his, and that you were truly sorry (instead of trying to justify it) and were working seriously on trying to ensure it did not happen again. It would seem that your counsellor is not as good as he/she should be in getting this done which is why I would not describe your last session with the counsellor as "brilliant".


If you truly want to win/earn his love back, your husband needs three things:



For you to tell the full truth and take full responsibility for your actions (no partial or trickle truths, no rugsweeping, no blame shifting)


True remorse not just regret - real empathy for what he is going through.


Real actions and not just words in repairing this - full transparency, NC, timeline etc


I think you two can make it if you are completely honest with yourself and then him.


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## Wolfman1968

InMyPrime said:


> *Why does her incident needs to have anything to do with his prior behaviour? I don’t think this works like this nor was it on her mind. Otherwise she would have mentioned it straight away.*
> Maybe they just don’t have a very good marriage and haven’t had one for a while. This incident could reawaken them both to try harder at it, or it could just as well send them further apart. They should figure out which way they want to go forward rather than get lost and dwell on the past which now seems pointless.
> A lot of couples have come out of it stronger on the other side @I shouldnthave ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although we often disagree, InMyPrime, I agree with this, particularly the bolded part.

Part of the issue for me is that I often have a cynical view of marriage therapists and counselors, which I think is too often justified. A lot of the time, the counselor is projecting their own feelings onto the patient's situation. (Can you saw "countertransference"? I knew you could.) I mean, how can the counselor know what REALLY was going on through patient's mind at the time they were doing something like cheating? And if the her feelings were really "subconscious", how can you really be sure they were there, and that these are not ideas that the patient is embracing after the fact at the counselor's suggestion? The OP initially DENIED that her husband's prior actions were part of this. How can you really be sure what is truth and what is the power of suggestion?

I think people underestimate the power that the counselor has to mold and redirect the mind of the patient. Those who seriously work in psychology/psychiatry, however, do recognize it. (And, for the record, I am NOT a mental health professional, but I am familiar with some of these concepts.) In fact, one of the more controversial psychiatric diagnoses, that of Dissociative Identity Disorder, is controversial for the reason that there is a faction of the psychiatric community that believes that the DID is actually produced by the therapist's interventions on a susceptible patient with certain issues. 
Furthermore, there has been a lot of controversy about other psychiatric techniques and diagnoses, such as "recovered memories".
So, how do we know whether the diagnosis by the counselor is correct that the husband's prior transgressions were motivation the OP below the surface, when the OP herself didn't think so initially?
What's the criteria for knowing if something is a true hidden motivation previously unrealized by the patient or if it is an implanted suggestion by the counselor that the patient runs with?


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## aine

ConanHub said:


> Lot of speculation instead of advice for OP here.:|


No speculation, he cheated, lied for 2 years and we are all going to say he gets a clean slate and she doesn't? It definitely changes the whole dynamic of this scenario. He wants to rug sweep causes he knows that he himself has not come clean. That ought to be considered and not ignored. She seems to be beating herself up about this, which she should BUT there is a lot of underlying stuff which none of us here know anything about. Counselling with absolute honesty might work, but will her BH be able for honestly, he failed in this area. Please do not say we should ignore this information.


Oh I forgot, he probably wasn't getting enough sex, so yeah it was ok for him to cheat and lie about it. But no, she cannot have any resentment, that is all in the past regardless of the fact it was never dealt with, she should have moved on and been a good loyal wife, afterall it was before marriage and with her friend, no biggie - The TAM mantra that is seen often and also a worrying trend.


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## aine

So I am seeing a trend on this thread to diagnose the cheating as a consequence of an earlier indiscretion. I intensely dislike this as it can lead to a game of one upmanship. This comes out in therapy, and it is heaped on him because he had one before marriage, then it can lead to resentment on his side, and consequentially, he may decide that his indiscretion was undeserving of the retaliation, and will retaliate in kind. Unfortunately, people justify their actions, whether rightly or wrongly.
@Taxman. I would agree with your reasoning if the first infidelity has been exposed and dealt with appropriately, they worked through it and moved on. In that case then it is in the past. But in this scenario, the BH never came clean for over 2 years he lied to her (that is a massive betrayal of trust) even when she knew something has happened, he still didn't and it was her ex friend who obviously thought it was serious enough to expose. 
Therefore it was NOT ever dealt with, he lied, continued to lie and then rug swept. (Personally, not a man a wife would want to be faithful too unless she has high personal moral standards. He does not deserve her loyalty or fidelity).
Not the basis for moving on I'm afraid. In fact he is lucky he is still married, but this type of thing comes back to bite one in the ass, and that is what is happening as confirmed by her counselor. Your analysis of the scenario is simplistic, every scenario is different and yes infidelity takes place often due to unresolved resentments, acknowledge or otherwise.


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## ConanHub

aine said:


> No speculation, he cheated, lied for 2 years and we are all going to say he gets a clean slate and she doesn't? It definitely changes the whole dynamic of this scenario. He wants to rug sweep causes he knows that he himself has not come clean. That ought to be considered and not ignored. She seems to be beating herself up about this, which she should BUT there is a lot of underlying stuff which none of us here know anything about. Counselling with absolute honesty might work, but will her BH be able for honestly, he failed in this area. Please do not say we should ignore this information.
> 
> 
> Oh I forgot, he probably wasn't getting enough sex, so yeah it was ok for him to cheat and lie about it. But no, she cannot have any resentment, that is all in the past regardless of the fact it was never dealt with, she should have moved on and been a good loyal wife, afterall it was before marriage and with her friend, no biggie - The TAM mantra that is seen often and also a worrying trend.


I actually wasn't referring to anything you just posted.


----------



## personofinterest

The OP came here open and humble, disgusted with her actions, having FULLY confessed to her husband.

WE are the ones obsessing about who did what first.

OP, for get what he did in relation to what you did. His sins are his respinsibility.

Stay on the honest, humble, transparent path you started. Let him know you are THERE no matter what.

Things will be what they will be.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

MattMatt said:


> Because they keep threadjacking trying to win arguments with their ex that they failed to have 15 or 20 years ago with their ex?
> 
> *Instead they have a go at the cheating spouse of someone else on the board.*
> 
> There have been instances of a BS or two coming back at the threadjacker and demanding that they stop attacking their WS, they get so bad.


 And why is that a bad thing? The WS is going to have to deal with it at home, it gives them a place to start working on the skills needed to resolve that situation w/ their spouse. The replies from others also give the OP better/different ideas on dealing with their BS. If they didn't have their deficiencies pointed out to them, sometimes harshly to make them listen, none of that would happen. They also have the ability to close the screen and ignore or contemplate it. They won't be afforded that opportunity with their betrayed spouse.
Seems some on this board are getting censor happy and not with the ones they should be.

To any posters new or old, say/type what you think. Do it in a civil manner, but remember only a moderator can censor what you say. **** anybody else (one poster in particular) trying to squelch your opinion because they don't agree with you. That runs against the grain of a *discussion* forum.

Alot of those BSs who come on to defend their WS are often still in "pick me" mode and later come back with the "You were all right" threads.


----------



## personofinterest

Rubix Cubed said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they keep threadjacking trying to win arguments with their ex that they failed to have 15 or 20 years ago with their ex?
> 
> *Instead they have a go at the cheating spouse of someone else on the board.*
> 
> There have been instances of a BS or two coming back at the threadjacker and demanding that they stop attacking their WS, they get so bad.
> 
> 
> 
> And why is that a bad thing? The WS is going to have to deal with it at home, it gives them a place to start working on the skills needed to resolve that situation w/ their spouse. The replies from others also give the OP better/different ideas on dealing with their BS. If they didn't have their deficiencies pointed out to them, sometimes harshly to make them listen, none of that would happen. They also have the ability to close the screen and ignore or contemplate it. They won't be afforded that opportunity with their betrayed spouse.
> Seems some on this board are getting censor happy and not with the ones they should be.
> 
> To any posters new or old, say/type what you think. Do it in a civil manner, but remember only a moderator can censor what you say. **** anybody else (one poster in particular) trying to squelch your opinion because they don't agree with you. That runs against the grain of a *discussion* forum.
Click to expand...

Because healthy people don't use a stranger as a proxy for their own cheating spouse.

And maybe the OP's husband is a better man than these dysfunctional ones.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> Because healthy people don't use a stranger as a proxy for their own cheating spouse.
> 
> And maybe the OP's husband is a better man than these dysfunctional ones.


The whole point of that went right over your head. It's about discussion, including every possible facet of a situation, not telling people to shut up when you don't agree with them or their approach.


----------



## ConanHub

Rubix Cubed said:


> And why is that a bad thing? The WS is going to have to deal with it at home, it gives them a place to start working on the skills needed to resolve that situation w/ their spouse. The replies from others also give the OP better/different ideas on dealing with their BS. If they didn't have their deficiencies pointed out to them, sometimes harshly to make them listen, none of that would happen. They also have the ability to close the screen and ignore or contemplate it. They won't be afforded that opportunity with their betrayed spouse.
> Seems some on this board are getting censor happy and not with the ones they should be.
> 
> To any posters new or old, say/type what you think. Do it in a civil manner, but remember only a moderator can censor what you say. **** anybody else (one poster in particular) trying to squelch your opinion because they don't agree with you. That runs against the grain of a *discussion* forum.
> 
> Alot of those BSs who come on to defend their WS are often still in "pick me" mode and later come back with the "You were all right" threads.


It is rare that a wayward posts here for help. It is even more rare to get one that confessed immediately and let their spouse ask all the questions they wanted to and both decided to reconcile.

She was past the point a lot of posters wanted to start at and was asking how to help her husband heal.

If people want to throw lumber at her then they shouldn't ***** if it gets thrown their way as well.

This is a good one. She is truly remorseful and wanting to do right after her betrayal. Her position should be considered and some are just going to flat out ignore it and slap her around for fun. Slaps go both ways.

There is also some very good insight and advice being offered so that is cool.

This might not pertain to anything you posted or meant so my apologies if this is off.


----------



## ConanHub

Rubix Cubed said:


> The whole point of that went right over your head. It's about discussion, including every possible facet of a situation, not telling people to shut up when you don't agree with them or their approach.


You realize she is talking about the folks who just want to smack OP for the hell of it?


----------



## MattMatt

Rubix Cubed said:


> And why is that a bad thing? The WS is going to have to deal with it at home, it gives them a place to start working on the skills needed to resolve that situation w/ their spouse. The replies from others also give the OP better/different ideas on dealing with their BS. If they didn't have their deficiencies pointed out to them, sometimes harshly to make them listen, none of that would happen. They also have the ability to close the screen and ignore or contemplate it. They won't be afforded that opportunity with their betrayed spouse.
> Seems some on this board are getting censor happy and not with the ones they should be.
> 
> To any posters new or old, say/type what you think. Do it in a civil manner, but remember only a moderator can censor what you say. **** anybody else (one poster in particular) trying to squelch your opinion because they don't agree with you. That runs against the grain of a *discussion* forum.
> 
> Alot of those BSs who come on to defend their WS are often still in "pick me" mode and later come back with the "You were all right" threads.


*Moderator Note:*

Because such posts are in breach of several of the rules of TAM.


----------



## VladDracul

manfromlamancha said:


> [*]Your "counsellor" appears to be trying to justify what you did instead of addressing that what you did was wrong, is done by many cheaters and is normally due to a selfish impulse (or even a thought about plan) that was acted on. Simple as that. Trying to blame your husband, being slightly drunk, the shape of your post-baby body or the alignment of the planets for your cheating is wrong. And your counsellor (if he or she were any good) would know that and know that it would be in your best interests to have you deal with that instead of try and justify it in any other way.


I don't think the counselor is trying to justify the action, but rather offer a reason she was in that mindset. If she harbors some hidden anger about his cheating, they need to get it out on the table and deal with it. I believe every willful "misdemeanor" is premeditated for one reason or another. Its not much of a stretch to think her's may be somewhat passive aggressive based. Forgiving is not the same a forgetting. There's an old Chinese proverb, ""Behind the smile, a hidden knife!"


----------



## Stormguy2018

NAS, I'm impressed. You're doing all the right things. I think, in the long run, your marriage will be stronger for this.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

ConanHub said:


> It is rare that a wayward posts here for help. It is even more rare to get one that confessed immediately and let their spouse ask all the questions they wanted to and both decided to reconcile.
> 
> She was past the point a lot of posters wanted to start at and was asking how to help her husband heal.
> 
> If people want to throw lumber at her then they shouldn't ***** if it gets thrown their way as well.
> 
> This is a good one. She is truly remorseful and wanting to do right after her betrayal. Her position should be considered and some are just going to flat out ignore it and slap her around for fun. Slaps go both ways.
> 
> There is also some very good insight and advice being offered so that is cool.
> 
> This might not pertain to anything you posted or meant so my apologies if this is off.


 What I was referring to was certain people squelching any discussion of D when the OP is talking about R. Seems R gets to be hammered on to the people who want to D without anybody telling them to stop talking about it. Or a WS getting coddled because of circumstances that don't really change their transgression, but may make them a victim as well as a perpetrator.
As for the OP I have complete respect for how she is handling this, certainly not what she did but she is doing everything she can to try to help her hubby (who I personally think is a douchecanoe) She has my support, but I don't think the 2x4 bearers should be hobbled unless as @MattMatt said they are violating the TOU. Everyone should be able to speak their mind and everyone should be punished *equally * if they break the rules. Coddling a wayward or being a bunch of back-slapping "go girls" isn't going to help any more than being a rude ass and hitting them with a 2x4. They are as equally as unhelpful from the opposite ends of the spectrum.


----------



## aine

OP you are one gutsy lady and sound like you know the damage you have done, are contrite and want to make amends, good for you.
You take care of your side of the road and let your BH take care of his. I am sorry but my sense of justice feels that you BH also has much work of his own to do, not only in terms of healing but confronting his own behaviour. 
I do not agree with the Tam'ers here who say all that is in the past. It is only in the past if it has actually been confronted, brought out into the light of day and dealt with. To hold you to a higher standard than himself would be wrong on so many levels but I suspect you are the kind of gal who has higher standards for yourself.

1. Counseling for yourself as to why you did what you did.
2. Openness and transparency in everything. I suspect your BH will not necessarily want this, perhaps you need counselling together. "Oh what a tangled web we weave.....'
3. No contact with OM ever
4. Ensure wife of OM knows
5. Get STD tested
6. Use this as an opportunity for you both to get back to basics and the foundation of your marriage (with or without a counsellors help). Decide that from here on out whatever resentments, dishonesty, etc on both sides has accumulated you will agree to work on it TOGETHER. Decide what must be done to protect your marriage by each of you.
7. Remember RESPECT is the foundation that keeps a marriage. YOu respect someone if you are honest with them


----------



## ABHale

I call BS on what your counselor said about this partly been caused by what your husband did in the past. Your husband made out with your girlfriend and got a hand job what you did was so much more. I really believe you need to find yourself a new counselor. I would agree with what they said if you acted out within a year or two after what your husband did. 

I really don’t think you understand the extent of what you’ve done. The other man is telling his friends what the two of you did. He is going around talking about what a freak you are in bed and that your husband can’t take care of your needs. he is making it 10 times worse than it ever was


----------



## ABHale

Did your neighbor take pictures or a video while you were going at it?


----------



## personofinterest

abhale said:


> did your neighbor take pictures or a video while you were going at it?


seriously?????


----------



## personofinterest

" Your husband made out with your girlfriend and got a hand job what you did is substance so much more. "

Crap like this is why if I were ever wayward I would NEVER post on a forum. Ever.

No, 2 wrong don't make a right, ever. But give me a break.

Just how far does that MRA pretzel twist????


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> seriously?????


Seriously because if he did he could be posting them on the Internet or showing them off to his friends


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

personofinterest said:


> " Your husband made out with your girlfriend and got a hand job what you did is substance so much more. "
> 
> Crap like this is why if I were ever wayward I would NEVER post on a forum. Ever.
> 
> No, 2 wrong don't make a right, ever. But give me a break.
> 
> Just how far does that MRA pretzel twist????


Indeed. One can quibble about whether or not intercourse is more "serious" than a hand job and making out, but this is really a very binary thing and both crossed an unacceptable boundary. I thoroughly disagree with anyone who wants to rank relative levels of sin between these two acts.

ftr, "making out" can be incredibly intimate. Some of my most intimate moments took have taken place entirely from the neck up. 

And where does oral fit into the intimacy hierarchy? What about a live sex Skype with no touching whatsoever? 

C'mon, man.


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> " Your husband made out with your girlfriend and got a hand job what you did is substance so much more. "
> 
> Crap like this is why if I were ever wayward I would NEVER post on a forum. Ever.
> 
> No, 2 wrong don't make a right, ever. But give me a break.
> 
> Just how far does that MRA pretzel twist????


 That was meant for the counselor that she’s seeing.


----------



## ABHale

And yes there is a huge difference from what her husband did years ago to what she did with the neighbor


----------



## ABHale

I will call BS on anybody using cheating as excuse to cheat back


----------



## personofinterest

ABHale said:


> I will call BS on anybody using cheating as excuse to cheat back


 You are correct. That is not an excuse. And no one here has an excuse to BEHAVE LIKE etc etc

Julie is acting stupid is not the same thing as saying Julie is stupid.


----------



## ABHale

personofinterest said:


> You are correct. That is not an excuse. And no one here has an excuse to behave like a petulant damaged jackass


Again I am referring to the counselor telling her that it’s one of the reasons why she did it. She needs to find a new counselor.

As for the pic vid comment. If the POS did she needs to protect herself.


----------



## ABHale

And thank you for the name calling


----------



## Rubix Cubed

ABHale said:


> And thank you for the name calling


Report that ****!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

ABHale said:


> And yes there is a huge difference from what her husband did years ago to what she did with the neighbor


So let's say that instead of letting him **** her, she just let him finger her.... does that somehow imply she was not unacceptably intimate with him or that she did not surrender her body to him? 

Either act crosses such an unacceptable line that "worse" loses any meaning. 

Now, back to the situation at hand (so to speak).
OP has owned up, is repentant, has not lied, trickle-truthed, or blame shifted (even if her counselor has). She is remorseful and wiling to work without equivocating. So again, does the "level" of sex really matter? A fully repentant intercourser beats an it-was-just-kissing minimizer any day.


----------



## ABHale

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So let's say that instead of letting him **** her, she just let him finger her.... does that somehow imply she was not unacceptably intimate with him or that she did not surrender her body to him?
> 
> Either act crosses such an unacceptable line that "worse" loses any meaning.
> 
> Now, back to the situation at hand (so to speak).
> OP has owned up, is repentant, has not lied, trickle-truthed, or blame shifted (even if her counselor has). She is remorseful and wiling to work without equivocating. So again, does the "level" of sex really matter? A fully repentant intercourser beats an it-was-just-kissing minimizer any day.


I could care less what he did years ago it has no bearing on what’s going on today


----------



## ABHale

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So let's say that instead of letting him **** her, she just let him finger her.... does that somehow imply she was not unacceptably intimate with him or that she did not surrender her body to him?
> 
> Either act crosses such an unacceptable line that "worse" loses any meaning.
> 
> Now, back to the situation at hand (so to speak).
> OP has owned up, is repentant, has not lied, trickle-truthed, or blame shifted (even if her counselor has). She is remorseful and wiling to work without equivocating. So again, does the "level" of sex really matter? A fully repentant intercourser beats an it-was-just-kissing minimizer any day.


And yes I admire OP for having the Courage to come out and tell her husband what happened.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

ABHale said:


> I could care less what he did years ago it has no bearing on what’s going on today


Agreed. So why even bring up the whole intercourse vs. hand job thing in the first place? If that was then, this is now, and then was irrelevant, then there's no need to equivocate about which deed is worse.


----------



## VladDracul

ABHale said:


> I will call BS on anybody using cheating as excuse to cheat back


You don't need a big excuse when you have motive and opportunity. All you need is a little rationalization. Whether there's a difference tween what he did some time ago and what she did depends on perspective.


----------



## ConanHub

ABHale said:


> And yes there is a huge difference from what her husband did years ago to what she did with the neighbor


I see what they did as similar though full on intercourse is definitely more than a handjob for sure.


----------



## ABHale

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Agreed. So why even bring up the whole intercourse vs. hand job thing in the first place? If that was then, this is now, and then was irrelevant, then there's no need to equivocate about which deed is worse.


I brought it up in regard to the counselor using it as an excuse for what she did. Someone else blew it out of proportion


----------



## Cynthia

ABHale said:


> I could care less what he did years ago it has no bearing on what’s going on today


I think this is foolishness. Of course it did. 

That doesn't mean it excuses her behavior or anything she did. It means that she was impacted in a manner that had not been resolved. He lied for years, then shut her down and rug swept. She allowed it an forgave him, but that hurt was not resolved and impacted her poor, drunken choices in the garage. This is a prime example of why things need to either end immediately or be properly dealt with and worked through when they happen.

Her husband is still a rug sweeper about her affair. That isn't going to do either of them any good. If this isn't properly worked through, they should probably divorce or it's eventually going to blow up again. And then do we just blame it all on him and say this has nothing to do with it? Of course not! It will become a cycle until or unless something is done to stop it.

Furthermore, the story of what her husband (then boyfriend did) is not the whole truth.


----------



## oldtruck

They both had PA's. There is no need to score which PA was worse.

Two wrongs never make a right.

My hat's off to the OP for making the effort to repair the damage she has
done to her marriage and herself. Her effort shows that she will heal from
this in time.


----------



## ABHale

CynthiaDe said:


> I think this is foolishness. Of course it did.
> 
> That doesn't mean it excuses her behavior or anything she did. It means that she was impacted in a manner that had not been resolved. He lied for years, then shut her down and rug swept. She allowed it an forgave him, but that hurt was not resolved and impacted her poor, drunken choices in the garage. This is a prime example of why things need to either end immediately or be properly dealt with and worked through when they happen.
> 
> Her husband is still a rug sweeper about her affair. That isn't going to do either of them any good. If this isn't properly worked through, they should probably divorce or it's eventually going to blow up again. And then do we just blame it all on him and say this has nothing to do with it? Of course not! It will become a cycle until or unless something is done to stop it.
> 
> Furthermore, the story of what her husband (then boyfriend did) is not the whole truth.


Wow


----------



## ABHale

OP’s own words. 

Do I think my ONS was revenge? I thought about this myself and I truly don’t believe so because I had forgiven and healed. I think the problem lies solely within me.

Like she said and I believe her when she wrote this.


----------



## aine

ABHale said:


> I could care less what he did years ago it has no bearing on what’s going on today


My husband cheated on me 20 years ago, a one night stand and it does matter and yes it still affects our marriage, the level of trust because like this couple it was minimized and rug swept. I look at him sometimes and think, what the hell!
How a woman handles such an incident is very different from how a man handles it. If I were not a Christian would I have cheated on my WH? Yes, because why would I owe him loyalty when he so casually threw away his to me?
The only thing keeping me on the straight and narrow is my faith and love for God, not my H. You have absolutely no idea whether that incident makes her doubt, haunts her and she knows when it comes down to it he doesn't care about her as much as she cares about him. He is bloody lucky that she confessed and although what she did is so wrong and hurtful that she is willing to bend over backwards to help him heal. She is a cheater he is a cheater, the only difference is that she is a better person on the basis of the information here.
Minimizing and refusing to tell your spouse the truth is one of the most hateful things that one can do, it damages irreparably any marriage. In my opinion he threw away the privilege of being the wounded one by what he did to her. You cannot put human emotions in a box it is all interrelated.


----------



## aine

ABHale said:


> I will call BS on anybody using cheating as excuse to cheat back


Revenge is a common human emotion. I dont think she wanted revenge, I don't think OP knows what she wants. But there is definitely something wrong in their marriage.


----------



## aine

ABHale said:


> OP’s own words.
> 
> Do I think my ONS was revenge? I thought about this myself and I truly don’t believe so because I had forgiven and healed. I think the problem lies solely within me.
> 
> Like she said and I believe her when she wrote this.


As I said before, she may well be past the stage of revenge but the fact that the incident was never discussed, her H refused to discuss, lied to her for 2 years about it and rug swept, will have a huge impact. It shows here

1. he would rather protect himself than her (kills the love)
2. He is not honest nor trustworthy (perhaps about other things too)
3. He didn't care about her pain at all (he would rather save himself)
4. He takes difficult issues off the table for discussion. (not a way to act in a marriage)

She may well have forgiven him but that doesn't change the items above, that still sits in the marriage like a giant elephant. They may have moved on, had kids, lived life, etc but that is all still there like dirt swept under the carpet. How exactly does a spouse process that? One may live with it but it doesn't go away. I guess only if you have experienced the situation can you understand.


----------



## ABHale

aine said:


> My husband cheated on me 20 years ago, a one night stand and it does matter and yes it still affects our marriage, the level of trust because like this couple it was minimized and rug swept. I look at him sometimes and think, what the hell!
> How a woman handles such an incident is very different from how a man handles it. If I were not a Christian would I have cheated on my WH? Yes, because why would I owe him loyalty when he so casually threw away his to me?
> The only thing keeping me on the straight and narrow is my faith and love for God, not my H. You have absolutely no idea whether that incident makes her doubt, haunts her and she knows when it comes down to it he doesn't care about her as much as she cares about him. He is bloody lucky that she confessed and although what she did is so wrong and hurtful that she is willing to bend over backwards to help him heal. She is a cheater he is a cheater, the only difference is that she is a better person on the basis of the information here.
> Minimizing and refusing to tell your spouse the truth is one of the most hateful things that one can do, it damages irreparably any marriage. In my opinion he threw away the privilege of being the wounded one by what he did to her. You cannot put human emotions in a box it is all interrelated.


No you would not have cheated. There are several Christian women and men that have cheated. You didn’t cheat because your not a cheater. 

I don’t see the point about her being a better person. I think she is a good person for everything she has done after the fact. I admire the courage she has shown in being honest with her husband. Remember the reason for her honesty, but I also think it is because she is a good person that made a mistake. She didn’t go out looking to cheat, she had been drinking and it just happened unlike others that have cheated. Yes her husband hid what he had done along with the friend. They should have been honest from the start. But that doesn’t make OP better then her husband as a person, we all make mistakes. You have no clue what he has done since then. He could be the best husband out there because of the pain he caused. He has to be doing something right for OP to want to do all the hard work to fix this. 

I wish them the best. This wasn’t a affair, it was a ONS that the OP regretted as soon as it happened. They have a real chance to make it work, unlike many who were in full blown affairs.


----------



## ABHale

aine said:


> As I said before, she may well be past the stage of revenge but the fact that the incident was never discussed, her H refused to discuss, lied to her for 2 years about it and rug swept, will have a huge impact. It shows here
> 
> 1. he would rather protect himself than her (kills the love)
> 2. He is not honest nor trustworthy (perhaps about other things too)
> 3. He didn't care about her pain at all (he would rather save himself)
> 4. He takes difficult issues off the table for discussion. (not a way to act in a marriage)
> 
> She may well have forgiven him but that doesn't change the items above, that still sits in the marriage like a giant elephant. They may have moved on, had kids, lived life, etc but that is all still there like dirt swept under the carpet. How exactly does a spouse process that? One may live with it but it doesn't go away. I guess only if you have experienced the situation can you understand.


I don’t agree with any of this. 

She wouldn’t be fighting so hard for the marriage if she wasn’t in love with her husband.


----------



## ABHale

It amazes me how a few on here are crucifying OP’s husband.


----------



## skerzoid

I think Elvis has left the building folks.


----------



## ABHale

aine said:


> Revenge is a common human emotion. I dont think she wanted revenge, I don't think OP knows what she wants. But there is definitely something wrong in their marriage.


Revenge is, being a cheater isn’t. 

Using cheating as revenge just proves you don’t give a **** for the other person and have poor morals.


----------



## ABHale

Believe you are right.


----------



## faithfulman

ABHale said:


> It amazes me how a few on here are crucifying OP’s husband.



I don't believe you have thoroughly read the thread. 

1) OP's husband threatened her with divorce if she did not shut up about his transgression, and she has carried that hurt since then. 


2) She has admitted that his transgression played a role in her behavior with his friend.


----------



## Cynthia

There is a big difference between cheating for revenge and cheating due to unresolved issues that have been rug swept. I do not think this was revenge. I think this woman loves her husband and has been carrying around the hurt of his betrayal and lack of contrition all these years and it clouded her judgement and she did a horrible thing. I think she is suffering and will continue to suffer more than her husband over any of this. This wasn't a happy marriage and I don't see much hope that it ever will be unless they begin to work together to solve the issues. He doesn't seem willing to do that at all.


----------



## ABHale

faithfulman said:


> I don't believe you have thoroughly read the thread.
> 
> 1) OP's husband threatened her with divorce if she did not shut up about his transgression, and she has carried that hurt since then.
> 
> 
> 2) She has admitted that his transgression played a role in her behavior with his friend.


Only after her counselor said it did. 

Read what she said. She thought about that and on her own said she didn’t.


----------



## Cynthia

ABHale said:


> Only after her counselor said it did.
> 
> Read what she said. She thought about that and on her own said she didn’t.


That is one of the reasons why we go to counselors. They recognize things that we don't. It's hard to see the forest for the trees, but a counselor isn't in the middle of the forest.


----------



## ABHale

CynthiaDe said:


> That is one of the reasons why we go to counselors. They recognize things that we don't. It's hard to see the forest for the trees, but a counselor isn't in the middle of the forest.


And some counselors aren’t worth a damn.


----------



## faithfulman

ABHale said:


> And some counselors aren’t worth a damn.


Most counselors aren't worth a damn. 

However, in this case, the counselor didn't "tell her" that she cheated because her husband cheated, then lied to her, then cruelly told her to stop asking about it or be divorced. 

The counselor worked with her to understand why she "might have" stepped so far out of character.


----------



## faithfulman

Also, I don't understand what the argument is. Really, this is just basic human dynamics.

If I sucker punch you in the face, then I deny you the courtesy of even understanding why I punched you, under threat of undoing your life, then 5 years later, you punch me in the face - trust me, that second punch had something to do with the first punch.

I can't fathom what is hard to understand about that. It's so obvious. 

Sure OP maybe did not have an understanding of why she ****ed her husband's friend at the drop of a hat. She probably (maybe) never thought she could or would do such a thing.

But unless she is just a regular lying cheater like her husband, then she has a motivation for doing what she did other than just being a selfish ass like her husband.


----------



## oldtruck

CynthiaDe said:


> There is a big difference between cheating for revenge and cheating due to unresolved issues that have been rug swept.


One in the same. When a person places a foot on the slippery slope the false justifications
then are formulated to take the temptation.

As the OP was being tempted she said to her self, well WH got to have his fun I am going to
get even. After all fair is fair.


----------



## MattMatt

oldtruck said:


> One in the same. When a person places a foot on the slippery slope the false justifications
> then are formulated to take the temptation.
> 
> As the OP was being tempted she said to her self, well WH got to have his fun I am going to
> get even. After all fair is fair.


There is often no conscious desire for revenge. But revenge affairs do happen.

After a lot of self analysis I realised that as sick as this seems I wanted to be with a woman who had not cheated on me.


----------



## ABHale

faithfulman said:


> Most counselors aren't worth a damn.
> 
> However, in this case, the counselor didn't "tell her" that she cheated because her husband cheated, then lied to her, then cruelly told her to stop asking about it or be divorced.
> 
> The counselor worked with her to understand why she "might have" stepped so far out of character.


And back to portraying the husband as a monster who deserved to be cheated on.


----------



## ABHale

faithfulman said:


> Also, I don't understand what the argument is. Really, this is just basic human dynamics.
> 
> If I sucker punch you in the face, then I deny you the courtesy of even understanding why I punched you, under threat of undoing your life, then 5 years later, you punch me in the face - trust me, that second punch had something to do with the first punch.
> 
> I can't fathom what is hard to understand about that. It's so obvious.
> 
> Sure OP maybe did not have an understanding of why she ****ed her husband's friend at the drop of a hat. She probably (maybe) never thought she could or would do such a thing.
> 
> But unless she is just a regular lying cheater like her husband, then she has a motivation for doing what she did other than just being a selfish ass like her husband.


Ok so 5 years ago her husband punched her in the face. 

Then this past weekend she took a baseball bat to him and nearly killed him. 

Some revenge.


----------



## ABHale

I am done in this thread. Best of luck OP.


----------



## faithfulman

oldtruck said:


> One in the same. When a person places a foot on the slippery slope the false justifications
> then are formulated to take the temptation.
> 
> As the OP was being tempted she said to her self, well WH got to have his fun I am going to
> get even. After all fair is fair.


You reap what you sow.


----------



## ConanHub

faithfulman said:


> Also, I don't understand what the argument is. Really, this is just basic human dynamics.
> 
> If I sucker punch you in the face, then I deny you the courtesy of even understanding why I punched you, under threat of undoing your life, then 5 years later, you punch me in the face - trust me, that second punch had something to do with the first punch.
> 
> I can't fathom what is hard to understand about that. It's so obvious.
> 
> Sure OP maybe did not have an understanding of why she ****ed her husband's friend at the drop of a hat. She probably (maybe) never thought she could or would do such a thing.
> 
> But unless she is just a regular lying cheater like her husband, then she has a motivation for doing what she did other than just being a selfish ass like her husband.


Might want to stop portraying the husband as a monster.

He didn't handle the hand job confession well at all but not everyone is an expert on this stuff when they make these bad choices 

I don't think OP is a monster or her husband. I think they have a good chance and, even if he isn't getting counseling, she is and this marriage can get through this.

I don't believe a hand job handled poorly before marriage makes the husband a tool and the wife a saint.

I sincerely hope for this couple. Just because some folks don't know immediately how to handle crappy situations doesn't make them unworthy of redemption.

OP did almost everything right after doing everything wrong.

Her husband stopped before full on intercourse but didn't have the tools to cope in a healthy manner.

Maybe we could just view them both as imperfect but lovable humans without making either one a villain.


----------



## 269370

Still handjob vs intercourse? Not really making much progress here...
Some might consider that a relationship may have less meaning before the two are married and even if husband had intercourse with the girl, it may have been less meaningful because of WHEN it happened (rather than WHAT happened).
But really not sure it matters: these threads are not meant to be about making a judgement call. It’s supposed to help them forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bluesclues

ABHale said:


> And back to portraying the husband as a monster who deserved to be cheated on.


Said not one person on this entire thread. Are your really this obtuse? 

Her counselor talking about how the hurt, anger, resentment and insecurity her husband’s cheating caused may have factored into her cheating is neither blaming her husband nor vilifying him. 

She obviously already had maladaptive coping skills or she would not have let his affair be rugswept in the first place. “They” say 2-5 years to heal from infidelity when both partners are working at it and I think that range is BS and much longer. Many people say they “have forgiven and healed” when they really mean they have shoved those awful feelings down to where they can’t access them and be hurt by them on a daily basis. Big difference. 

Yes, her husband’s cheating, double betrayal, lying and demands to not talk about it ever factored into her cheating. She already had a rough life before that - it is like playing “Insecurity Jenga” - his piece made the pile that much taller and that much more likely to fall. She stated honestly earlier that she felt insecure about her body after having a baby (and was ridiculed here for stating that). That was the piece that tipped her over. His cheating wasn’t THE reason she cheated, it was a piece of it. 

It is important for her to talk about these past hurts, not to lay blame, but to learn from them. Those bad feelings from past hurts don’t magically go away and she needs to learn how to deal with them and not push them down until she is so full they come out in destructive ways.


----------



## faithfulman

ABHale said:


> And back to portraying the husband as a monster who deserved to be cheated on.


I'm not "portraying" anything. 

Her husband is a major sleazebag. 

3 weeks before their wedding she catches him cheating on her WITH HER BEST FRIEND AND BRIDESMAID. 

She caught her best friend ON TOP OF HIM in another tent 20 feet away.

Then they both lied to her for 2 years, telling her "nothing happened". 

Then her "friend" admitted to kissing and a hand job.

Yes. She GOT ON TOP OF HIM to kiss him and give him a hand job, right before the wedding.

And if you believe grown-ups get on top of each other secretly in the dark to give and get hand-jobs, then well... 

And to put the cherry on top, her husband cared so little for her distress that he threatened her with divorce if she didn't drop it. 

So, is it "right" to **** his friend 10 years later? No.

But I get it, and my sympathy for her sleaze bag husband is nil.

If you want to champion him and lament his torment, more power to you.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Why is everyone still here arguing? OP bugged out...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## faithfulman

ConanHub said:


> Might want to stop portraying the husband as a monster.


I never portrayed him as a monster. A common, callous cheating ass, yes. 



ConanHub said:


> He didn't handle the hand job confession well at all but not everyone is an expert on this stuff when they make these bad choices


I'm as charitable for people's foibles and weaknesseses as the next guy but a) Her husband never confessed and b) emotionally abused her afterwards (and just prior to their wedding as well.) 



ConanHub said:


> I don't believe a hand job handled poorly before marriage makes the husband a tool and the wife a saint.


You can choose to believe that 2 adults sneaked off into the dark and then the woman mounted the man to give him a handjob, I do not. 

Further, that's just what her friend admitted to after the years of gaslighting. 



ConanHub said:


> I sincerely hope for this couple. Just because some folks don't know immediately how to handle crappy situations doesn't make them unworthy of redemption.
> 
> OP did almost everything right after doing everything wrong.


My hope is for OP to find herself around some decent people who won't take advantage of her like her husband, her best friend, and her husband's friend. 



ConanHub said:


> Her husband stopped before full on intercourse but didn't have the tools to cope in a healthy manner.
> 
> Maybe we could just view them both as imperfect but lovable humans without making either one a villain.


I've already stated my point of view on the handjob business, and my conclusion about her husband is that he is a tool. 

But maybe I am wrong. I believe facts and the way things generally go support my opinion.


----------



## ConanHub

faithfulman said:


> I never portrayed him as a monster. A common, callous cheating ass, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm as charitable for people's foibles and weaknesseses as the next guy but a) Her husband never confessed and b) emotionally abused her afterwards (and just prior to their wedding as well.)
> 
> 
> 
> You can choose to believe that 2 adults sneaked off into the dark and then the woman mounted the man to give him a handjob, I do not.
> 
> Further, that's just what her friend admitted to after the years of gaslighting.
> 
> 
> 
> My hope is for OP to find herself around some decent people who won't take advantage of her meek nature, like her husband, her best friend, and her husband's friend.
> 
> 
> 
> I've already stated my point of view on the handjob business, and my conclusion about her husband is that he is a tool.
> 
> But maybe I am wrong. I believe facts and the way things generally go support my opinion.


Until more is revealed by OP, you're as full of it as any speculator. That is my experience. Best not to be too sure until everything is revealed. You could be spot on in your guess.

Odds are the truth is in between what you surmise. It usually is.


----------



## faithfulman

ConanHub said:


> Until more is revealed by OP, you're as full of it as any speculator. That is my experience. Best not to be too sure until everything is revealed. You could be spot on in your guess.
> 
> Odds are the truth is in between what you surmise. It usually is.


I agree with you. This is my opinion.

And if the truth is ever revealed, I'll be back to either crow or eat crow.

Internet crow is delicious!


----------



## VladDracul

ConanHub said:


> Her husband stopped before full on intercourse but didn't have the tools to cope in a healthy manner.


I don't know Conan, some folks are calling it "her on top". I'm going with "the cowgirl position". One damn things for sure. If it'd been me during my younger years, I'd pulled her panties aside, if she had any on, and you know the rest. Sides that, if NAS hadn't of caught them in when she did, ain't a doubt in my mind the future Mr. NAS would have rode that filly.

Nevertheless, regardless of the quality of the handjob et al, NAS didn't give the OM the deluxe treatment while thinking her old man hung the moon. There's plenty more to this story (that we're likely to never hear)


----------



## ABHale

faithfulman said:


> I'm not "portraying" anything.
> 
> Her husband is a major sleazebag.
> 
> 3 weeks before their wedding she catches him cheating on her WITH HER BEST FRIEND AND BRIDESMAID.
> 
> She caught her best friend ON TOP OF HIM in another tent 20 feet away.
> 
> Then they both lied to her for 2 years, telling her "nothing happened".
> 
> Then her "friend" admitted to kissing and a hand job.
> 
> Yes. She GOT ON TOP OF HIM to kiss him and give him a hand job, right before the wedding.
> 
> And if you believe grown-ups get on top of each other secretly in the dark to give and get hand-jobs, then well...
> 
> And to put the cherry on top, her husband cared so little for her distress that he threatened her with divorce if she didn't drop it.
> 
> So, is it "right" to **** his friend 10 years later? No.
> 
> But I get it, and my sympathy for her sleaze bag husband is nil.
> 
> If you want to champion him and lament his torment, more power to you.


Wrong. Her gf confused 3 weeks before the wedding. It happened a year or two before then. 

Yes Blues here is the one doing it.


----------



## faithfulman

ABHale said:


> Wrong. Her gf confused 3 weeks before the wedding. It happened a year or two before then.
> 
> Yes Blues here is the one doing it.


You got me on that one. 

Her husband is still a cheating jerk.


----------



## StillSearching

faithfulman said:


> I agree with you. This is my opinion.
> 
> And* if the truth is ever revealed,* I'll be back to either crow or eat crow.
> 
> Internet crow is delicious!


When pigs fly....


----------



## aine

ABHale said:


> It amazes me how a few on here are crucifying OP’s husband.


"Crucifying' is rather over dramatic don't you think. 
You said in your post that maybe since then he has been a great husband. I do not agree. If he never came clean, rug swept etc, doesn't matter what he did since, he still was more concerned with his own discomfort than her pain. I don't see how you cannot see that. If it is still under the rug, which is all appears to be, then he isn't the great H you make him out to be. He was cheating with her friend before their wedding ffs, a hand job supposedly, I believe that is only the tip of the iceberg which he doesn't want exposed! OP's gut knows instinctively, I guarantee it.

I am not saying it exonerates the OP, she has to clean up her mess by all means but please stop painting the OP's H as a poor wholesome man with a cheating wife.


----------



## CraigBesuden

Two wrongs don’t make a right. But two wrongs make it even.

If a person denies someone his freedom (ie, kidnapping), is it wrong for the government to hold that person against his will as punishment (ie, jail time)?

If a person causes $20,000 in damage to your car and body in an accident, is it a “wrong” to take $20,000 from him as compensation?


----------



## oldtruck

CraigBesuden said:


> Two wrongs don’t make a right. But two wrongs make it even.
> 
> If a person denies someone his freedom (ie, kidnapping), is it wrong for the government to hold that person against his will as punishment (ie, jail time)?
> 
> If a person causes $20,000 in damage to your car and body in an accident, is it a “wrong” to take $20,000 from him as compensation?


Man A: you killed my brother so I killed yours where are now even.

Two wrongs do not make it even or right.

Though three right turns will get you heading in the same direction as one left turn.


----------



## skerzoid

She gone....


----------



## Notalwaysstrong

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Notalwaysstrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess the best thing to do is start with what happened.
> 
> My husband and I had some close friends that we would hangout with and do couple things. It was one of my husbands friends from childhood who lost touch and reconnected because we moved to the area.
> 
> We would all drink and hangout. Play drinking games and chill at our house in the garage. Both couples have children so it’s nice to be able to put the kids to bed and hangout. One night in particular we were all wasted. My husband and his friends wife went inside to go to bed. His friend stayed to finish his beer and I was cleaning up because I didn’t want our garage to smell like old beer and we’ve been having ant problems.
> 
> Anyways he walks over to me as I’m cleaning we start talking. I told him I was thankful for the friendship because we haven’t been able to get out and be social because we have a young child. A touch led to a hug that led to a kiss that led to me making the worst mistake of my life. He said it would be our secret and my husband doesn’t need to know.
> 
> I couldn’t do that. I already betrayed him and I didn’t want to lie to him. I knew that if I wanted a chance for our marriage to survive that I had to come clean about what happened as embarrassed and shamed as I felt. The couple left the next morning and I battled with myself. So I worked up courage and told him. When I saw the hurt in his eyes my heart broke because I feel so terrible for the pain I have caused him.
> 
> We are going to stay together and I know that there is going to be a lot of work. I have cut way down on my drinking because I’m never going to allow myself to be in the position again and I’m currently seeing a counselor to understand why I did what I did. Our marriage has its problems but nothing out of the ordinary and our sex life is good as well. I know the problem is with me and that I’m a selfish monster. I put my marriage, my family and my husbands dignity on the line for a selfish act and I will forever regret it.
> 
> I’m here to ask for advice on ways to prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and want to work on proving to him that I love him and want to earn his trust back. I would love to hear that marriages do survive these things, advice to get to healing and helping him heal.
> 
> I already know that I’m a horrible human being and that I’m lucky that my husband didn’t divorce me so please understand that. This was tough for me to post even anonymous I feel shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to give you all an update. I had a GREAT counseling session yesterday and we are really starting to unravel a lot. Instead of responding to everyone who has posted on the thread I will do a general post.
> 
> As far as the OM honestly, I’m not nor ever was attracted to him. Is he a serial cheater? Probably. does his wife know? I’m going to assume so since I haven’t received a text or message through any means and we had plans. Also my H told the OM he had to tell her or he would.
> 
> I’m embarrassed of what I had done and the choices I made. I know that it was extremely disrespectful and I couldn’t be more regretful for the hurt I’ve caused. I am taking it as an opportunity to learn and get myself help.
> 
> My therapist agrees that the past infidelities on my husbands part before we were married hurt me more than I thought and were more than likely one of the underlying reasons I made the choice I did. Also it could be why my H is handling it the way he is. It’s still too early in the process so I need to allow him time to really process what has happened.
> 
> My fear of abandonment sometimes makes me make pre emptive strikes the idea of
> “ I’ll hurt you before you hurt me” or doing things to “push people away” so they can’t hurt me. —this will be something we will continue to dig deeper into — but there were a couple triggers for me that happened the weeks leading up to that night. Things I thought were small but weren’t.
> 
> I wish I could change the title of this thread because you are all very right. I’m not earning his love back I’m earning his trust back. That will take time.
> 
> I’m focusing on myself so I can start truly healing from my childhood, past hurts and become a stronger and more stable person.
> 
> Right now we are at one of our lowest points in our marriage. However, people and marriages have survived worse as long as both of us are willing and actively putting in the work. I can’t and won’t push him so I will continue to work on myself and my problems. I’m truly hoping when he sees me change for the good that he will want that for himself.
> 
> I told him this cycle of hurt and betrayal is done. We can no longer do this to each other. It’s not fair or healthy and will only continue to get more toxic. I think we are now at ground zero and need to work on our foundation before we build a new skyscraper.
> 
> I do want to thank you all for honest advice and thoughts. You allowed me to think in a different perspective which allowed me to bring these perspectives up to my counselor.
Click to expand...


Another update:
Sorry everyone I have had a lot going on in my personal life that’s not affair related. I caught up and wanted to post a couple things:

What my husband did to me was not right but he he is not a horrible person. We have been together since we were 19 and I think our relationship got stuck and did not mature at the same rate we did. We have both made horrible choices and we both handled the situations differently and we’ve both caused hurt. 

The why I made my choice is never going to be one thing. It’s a bunch of small things that built up and put pressure and at that time in that moment while I was impaired these things putting the pressure on helped me make a choice I will forever regret. I was not thinking and I was selfish. No there was no heavy petting it went straight from kissing to intercourse. It was fast and my mind was fogged. I hate myself for my choice. I hate myself for the pain I caused. 

It’s important to understand that I’m not a bad person nor is my husband. We are good people who made bad choices. She was on top of him because she was trying to have sex with him and he said no. I wish I would have said no. 

I’m fully committed and in love with my husband always have been since the day we met. Life is hard, parenting is rough and marriage is not easy but we are going to stay in it and work on it together. This is a learning opportunity for both of us. 

My counselor is great he is not saying THIS IS WHY YOU CHEATED. He is helping me go deep down and figure out my why on my own. Like other posters have said yes it’s in the past but it’s still a piece that fits into the puzzle. I have the ability to adapt to difficult situations because my childhood was ripped from me and I was forced to grow up pretty quickly. This also means that sometimes I make childish and rash choices without thinking. I also tend to shut down in some instances that I find hard to handle. 

Like I said when he started kissing me I should have said no. Instead I made a choice to let it happen. I was surprised that it was happening. We’ve been alone together before and nothing like that happened. I felt comfortable around him because he was a friend and I cared for him as a friend. It’s important to understand that I have the capability to let this happen and need to be aware so I never let it happen again. I’ve found my dark side. 

I can’t speak for my husband. How he feels, what he feels and how he is processing it. I can only be there to support him in anyway possible and help him heal. My counselor and I are working on a timeline to slowly bring up the conversations properly to allow him to process but not rugsweep. We all heal differently and we are all on different timelines. 

I thank you all for your advice and thoughts and this will be my last post. Obsessing over how I can fix this is not healthy and I need to get back to solely focusing on my family and our journey. We will survive this because we are both working to better ourselves.


----------



## personofinterest

skerzoid said:


> She gone....


I don't blame her. Nobody wants to be the stand in for a bunch of angry dysfunctional people.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Another update:
> Sorry everyone I have had a lot going on in my personal life that’s not affair related. I caught up and wanted to post a couple things:
> 
> What my husband did to me was not right but he he is not a horrible person. We have been together since we were 19 and I think our relationship got stuck and did not mature at the same rate we did. We have both made horrible choices and we both handled the situations differently and we’ve both caused hurt.
> 
> The why I made my choice is never going to be one thing. It’s a bunch of small things that built up and put pressure and at that time in that moment while I was impaired these things putting the pressure on helped me make a choice I will forever regret. I was not thinking and I was selfish. No there was no heavy petting it went straight from kissing to intercourse. It was fast and my mind was fogged. I hate myself for my choice. I hate myself for the pain I caused.
> 
> It’s important to understand that I’m not a bad person nor is my husband. We are good people who made bad choices. She was on top of him because she was trying to have sex with him and he said no. I wish I would have said no.
> 
> *I’m fully committed and in love with my husband always have been since the day we met. *Life is hard, parenting is rough and marriage is not easy but we are going to stay in it and work on it together. This is a learning opportunity for both of us.
> 
> My counselor is great he is not saying THIS IS WHY YOU CHEATED. He is helping me go deep down and figure out my why on my own. Like other posters have said yes it’s in the past but it’s still a piece that fits into the puzzle. I have the ability to adapt to difficult situations because my childhood was ripped from me and I was forced to grow up pretty quickly. This also means that sometimes I make childish and rash choices without thinking. I also tend to shut down in some instances that I find hard to handle.
> 
> Like I said when he started kissing me I should have said no. Instead I made a choice to let it happen. I was surprised that it was happening. We’ve been alone together before and nothing like that happened. I felt comfortable around him because he was a friend and I cared for him as a friend. It’s important to understand that I have the capability to let this happen and need to be aware so I never let it happen again. I’ve found my dark side.
> 
> I can’t speak for my husband. How he feels, what he feels and how he is processing it. I can only be there to support him in anyway possible and help him heal. My counselor and I are working on a timeline to slowly bring up the conversations properly to allow him to process but not rugsweep. We all heal differently and we are all on different timelines.
> 
> I thank you all for your advice and thoughts and this will be my last post. Obsessing over how I can fix this is not healthy and I need to get back to solely focusing on my family and our journey. We will survive this because we are both working to better ourselves.


This is an excellent post and you seem to be working on both yourself and your marriage with great dedication. Hopefully your husband is the same. Y'all seem to be as good a case for reconciliation and recovery as we ever see.

However, I would like to point out one lingering inconsistency which lies in the portion I bolded above. I think you may need to consider that maybe you haven't always been _fully_ committed to your husband. If you were, the infidelity wouldn't have happened. I think you need to face that straight up to be able to truly move forward.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

personofinterest said:


> I don't blame her. Nobody wants to be the stand in for a bunch of angry dysfunctional people.


 I've said it before, I can't even come close to understanding why someone who incessantly kvetches about what **** people are on this site would want to keep coming back day in and day out. Man, it gets ****ing old.


----------



## Mr.Married

Notalwaystrong: Congratulations and best luck going forward! Y'all are going to make it!


----------



## MattMatt

Notalwaysstrong said:


> Another update:
> Sorry everyone I have had a lot going on in my personal life that’s not affair related. I caught up and wanted to post a couple things:
> 
> What my husband did to me was not right but he he is not a horrible person. We have been together since we were 19 and I think our relationship got stuck and did not mature at the same rate we did. We have both made horrible choices and we both handled the situations differently and we’ve both caused hurt.
> 
> The why I made my choice is never going to be one thing. It’s a bunch of small things that built up and put pressure and at that time in that moment while I was impaired these things putting the pressure on helped me make a choice I will forever regret. I was not thinking and I was selfish. No there was no heavy petting it went straight from kissing to intercourse. It was fast and my mind was fogged. I hate myself for my choice. I hate myself for the pain I caused.
> 
> It’s important to understand that I’m not a bad person nor is my husband. We are good people who made bad choices. She was on top of him because she was trying to have sex with him and he said no. I wish I would have said no.
> 
> I’m fully committed and in love with my husband always have been since the day we met. Life is hard, parenting is rough and marriage is not easy but we are going to stay in it and work on it together. This is a learning opportunity for both of us.
> 
> My counselor is great he is not saying THIS IS WHY YOU CHEATED. He is helping me go deep down and figure out my why on my own. Like other posters have said yes it’s in the past but it’s still a piece that fits into the puzzle. I have the ability to adapt to difficult situations because my childhood was ripped from me and I was forced to grow up pretty quickly. This also means that sometimes I make childish and rash choices without thinking. I also tend to shut down in some instances that I find hard to handle.
> 
> Like I said when he started kissing me I should have said no. Instead I made a choice to let it happen. I was surprised that it was happening. We’ve been alone together before and nothing like that happened. I felt comfortable around him because he was a friend and I cared for him as a friend. It’s important to understand that I have the capability to let this happen and need to be aware so I never let it happen again. I’ve found my dark side.
> 
> I can’t speak for my husband. How he feels, what he feels and how he is processing it. I can only be there to support him in anyway possible and help him heal. My counselor and I are working on a timeline to slowly bring up the conversations properly to allow him to process but not rugsweep. We all heal differently and we are all on different timelines.
> 
> I thank you all for your advice and thoughts and this will be my last post. Obsessing over how I can fix this is not healthy and I need to get back to solely focusing on my family and our journey. We will survive this because we are both working to better ourselves.


Your last post here? Yes, I can see why.

I wish you and your husband well for the future.

And remember, we will always be here for you.


----------



## MattMatt

In fact, @Notalwaysstrong we'll leave a light on for you.


----------



## personofinterest

Rubix Cubed said:


> I've said it before, I can't even come close to understanding why someone who incessantly kvetches about what **** people are on this site would want to keep coming back day in and day out. Man, it gets ****ing old.


It's only about....7 or 8 people out of hundreds of rational people. Not worth leaving a place over.

Just like I can't understand why ONE poster deserves sooooo much freaking attention, though I'm...flattered?

But if it helps to clarify, I feel that way about every relationship site on the entire internet. There is no place any WS could post and be safe from proxy and projection. TAM is probably the best place out there, IMO.


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## MattMatt

*Moderator Note:-*

As the OP has said she would not be making any more posts, this thread is now closed.If the OP wants it reopened, that will be done.


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