# No affection or gratitude.



## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Married 12 years with three children 7,4,2. My wife has been emotionally closed off. Shows very little if any affection or gratitude. I believed this was been due to the antidepressants she started over 2 years ago. One of the side effects is a low libido. We've talked a lot about bit and with the help of her Dr. she is off of it but little has changed. 

Over the past year she has become increasingly frustrated with me, and my work/hobbies/interests. I'm very upbeat, love just about aspects of my life, but keep myself very busy. She doesn't like how busy I am. I know I keep busy. Part of the reason is so I don't have to deal with the feeling of being alone.

We talked about our relationship about week or so. Mostly me expressing my desire to have a better relationship with her. I usually feel good afterwords. I hear lots of "Ok" "I'll try" and "yeah I know" but no action or change ever come because of it. That seems to hurt even more. Her knowing something bother me and yet does nothing. I'd almost rather her not know.

She's been very helpful to me in the past emotionally so I don't mind being patient and working through things. I don't know if I'd be happier without her.

I love her but being so close to her and emotionally so far really hurts.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Her age, could she be going thru the "change"? Could she be battling some depression? Talked about giving marriage counseling a try? Stay patient, stay positive.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thumper said:


> Her age, could she be going thru the "change"? Could she be battling some depression? Talked about giving marriage counseling a try? Stay patient, stay positive.


Age is not an issue. I don't doubt that some depression exists, but nothing outside the normal. She's expressed more of a lack of interest. When talking about other aspects of life/hobbies/interests she's said it's hard and she just doesn't want to do hard things.

While we go out almost every week, about every couple of weeks or so I'll see that happy woman I fell in love with. 12 hours or so latter it's back to what has become the norm. Those swings are too infrequent for me to keep this up for much longer.

I'm not afraid of giving marriage counseling a try. I'm afraid she won't put the effort into it. I've just heard "I know, I'm sorry" too may times. Maybe I'm not ready to deal with the what would happen if I put more working into it and things don't improve.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Has she used he word "bored". Sounds like she might be starting to detach a little bit even. You might need to set up more date nights? Do something romantic? take a trip? get her out of the house more? I dunno, theres not a lot of information to really judge whats happening here I guess.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

was/is she a stay at home mom (sahm)? If so is she worn out from the kids, thus why she's so happy out on the town? Have you shown your gratitude at her raising the kids? Doe she feel under appreciated in some way? Just reaching for straws here. You might need to give the 5 language of love a read. Sometimes the love your expressing is not what makes her feel loved. Its about reading your wife and reaching her in a way you never thought about before. Finding her love language, and even finding your own at the same time.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thumper said:


> Has she used he word "bored". Sounds like she might be starting to detach a little bit even. You might need to set up more date nights? Do something romantic? take a trip? get her out of the house more? I dunno, theres not a lot of information to really judge whats happening here I guess.


We do have a few days vacation planned in a few weeks. Just the two of us without the kids. I do try to be romantic. Every couple of weeks I'll go overboard and do a lot. In public and around her friends she's great. At home I just feel invisible.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

How much do you help with the kids duties? laundry, cooking, cleaning the house, etc.

My marriage of 21 years is ending cause she got mad, then resentful, then detached at the fact I didn't help around the house more (although she never said a thing to me). Don't make the mistakes I made. Show your wife your there for her at home too. Gratitude is a two way street, not that I know your situation, just offering up ideas


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thumper said:


> was/is she a stay at home mom (sahm)? If so is she worn out from the kids, thus why she's so happy out on the town? Have you shown your gratitude at her raising the kids? Doe she feel under appreciated in some way? Just reaching for straws here. You might need to give the 5 language of love a read. Sometimes the love your expressing is not what makes her feel loved. Its about reading your wife and reaching her in a way you never thought about before. Finding her love language, and even finding your own at the same time.


Yes she's a stay at home mom. That's what she said she wants. I work damn hard so we can have a nice life and she can stay at home. She does complain about it all the time. I know it's tough raising kids. I've always be there to help her deal with the typical bad stuff and ideas on how to deal with this and that. The small things like saying I love you and showing gratitude are extremely important to me so I make sure I express them to her. 

I've read up on love languages. She feel loved when I give her my attention and time. I work hard to make time for her yet she doesn't seem to care i guess. She'll just sit and play games on her phone.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Adam801 said:


> We do have a few days vacation planned in a few weeks. Just the two of us without the kids. I do try to be romantic. Every couple of weeks I'll go overboard and do a lot. In public and around her friends she's great. At home I just feel invisible.


That might be too little too late, movie night, take her out or rent one for when the kids go to bed. Make sure its a romantic one, or a type of movie she likes. Obviously not Rambo 4.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thumper said:


> How much do you help with the kids duties? laundry, cooking, cleaning the house, etc.
> 
> My marriage of 21 years is ending cause she got mad, then resentful, then detached at the fact I didn't help around the house more (although she never said a thing to me). Don't make the mistakes I made. Show your wife your there for her at home too. Gratitude is a two way street, not that I know your situation, just offering up ideas


Every night after she, and the kids are in bed I'll finish what ever housework needs to be done. Weekends I'll do all the cooking.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thumper said:


> That might be too little too late, movie night, take her out or rent one for when the kids go to bed. Make sure its a romantic one, or a type of movie she likes. Obviously not Rambo 4.


Funny, Saturday I had planned a very nice dinner and move. She ended up going out with "the girls" instead. I'm normally all for that. I want her to go socialize with friends as much as she can. She's stuck at home all day after all.

I ended up having a friend come over to watch a guy movie instead.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

It definitely sounds like the beginning of detachment then. The mother of all mountains in a marriage. Its like trying to climb Mt. Everest in a thong and slippers. You have your work cut out for you, understand this is gonna take some time, if you decide you want to put in the work. Not to under value what your bringing in as the breadwinner and giving her the support she needs, but get on top of this now or its over. 

My wife detached so bad, she forgot she had kids she was so burned out. Now she's out partying every night, has had some physical affairs to make up for the lost time. And no one can reach her. Its not fun let me tell ya. Its a fine fine line you must now decide if you want to walk down. Once you get back on top of it, it becomes a lifestyle change, not a temporary solution for her. I feel for where your about to be heading. Good luck and remember the TAM website is a good outlet for advice and just venting.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I forgot to mention this, but its probably gonna get worse before it gets better. Does she have a divorced friend she's been hanging out with on "girls night"? Is there strange texting going on late at night? Have you checked your computers history and make sure everything is on the level there? If you here the words come out of her mouth " I love you, but im not in love with you". OMG!!!


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Last night I slept on the couch. 

I work for a college. On of the benefits I have is being able to take classes for free. It's finials right now so I'm very busy studying for it. I was originally going to stay on campus to study, but decided to go home to help with dinner, the kids and try to be around while study.

After dinner she got mad at me for not spending time with the family. She said a few very discouraging remarks and it just totally drained me of all motivation and self esteem. Up until that point I was having a very good day. We had even flirted a bit and eluded to being intimate that night. 

After the kids had gone to bed, I waited for her to come talk to me, say How's how it going, when are you coming to bed, anything. Nothing happen, and decided it was probably for the best as I was really ticked off and didn't want to go off on her. Both of us went in bed without saying a word. After about 15 minutes I decided I need to talk. 

Very calmly I said "You really hurt my feelings today"
After about 5 minutes of silence she asked "Are you going to tell me about it?"
I said "You got mad and yelled at me"

After another 5 minutes of silence I just felt like she didn't care to enough to talk anymore so I decided to do thing a bit dramatic. I got up and went in to the other room, hoping she'd come out and check on me. I ended up sleeping on the couch.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

A bit more insight I've gained upon reflection:

Over time she's become very occupied with being a stay at home more. I went form being #1 one in her life to #4. Two years ago she went on antidepressants. Slow she became sexually not interested (a side effect of antidepressants). I became more distant as she paid less attention to her. Slowly she became emotionally separated from me and just kind of gave up. I started realizing this and about six months ago we stared talking what she need and what I need. Nothing changed, more talking, still not change, more talking and still no change. I started become more distant and she grew more frustrated. She became or has always been critical and unsuportive of the things that make me happy, job/hobbies/interests etc. I started to feel like she did not love me, who I was. I know she does love me but somewhere somehow she stopped/forgot how to show it.

We finally had the talk.

It was good that time had past as it gave me a chance to calm down and try to objectively look at what had happen, where I am, and where I want to go.

In short I told her I can't trust here with my emotions, right now. I need time and space to heal before I can emotionally open up and be venerable around her. I need her to find a way to show that I'm important her. Simple small things to start. She asked specifically what she need to do. I told here she needs to figure it out, I can't tell her. To tell her exactly what to do and have her not do it is too painful. There is also a lot of value in learning what to do. 

In my mind it's almost like a relationship reboot. Start over but with a lot more of knowledge about each other. Start by talking, then show interest, then flirt, then date, and slowly build up to be ing romantic and intimate. 

I told her I had thought about separation and divorce but that I don't thing we are there. I think we can improve our marriage and relationship. We've spend a lot of time together and this is a small very low point in our relationship. I believe it can pass.

She did a lot of crying. I think she is finally realizing how bad things had gotten for me and is motivated to change.


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## Baldguitarguy (Jul 31, 2012)

Adam801 said:


> We talked about our relationship about week or so. Mostly me expressing my desire to have a better relationship with her. I usually feel good afterwords. I hear lots of "Ok" "I'll try" and "yeah I know" but no action or change ever come because of it. That seems to hurt even more. Her knowing something bother me and yet does nothing. I'd almost rather her not know.
> 
> She's been very helpful to me in the past emotionally so I don't mind being patient and working through things. I don't know if I'd be happier without her.
> 
> I love her but being so close to her and emotionally so far really hurts.



Just wanted to say, you are not alone. 

I could have written what you posted.

I am curious, how do you maintain an upbeat attitude?

Mine has certainly become pessimistic and I have a hard time being motivated.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

any updates on what you found on cell phone records? facebook or home computer history? This smells of emotional affair to me to be honest, and if she's reaching out to someone in that manner, it doesn't matter what your going, your adding minutes to your marriage while she might be working on the rest of her life...in her eyes........with someone else. Don't take this lightly, but don't accuse her of anything either.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

I've been hurt a lot in the past. I compartmentalize my life/emotions almost to an unhealthy point but that's how I survive. I let very few people become close to me. No one has all the card to my heart. My wife had a lot of them, more than anyone else and tore them up. I can hang in there by leaning on others. I also have a very strong faith in my religion (I'm Mormon). Believing that our marriage is eternal helps put into perspective how insignificant these issues will be when you look at the big picture.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

@Thumper
I won't accuse her of anything. I don't suspect her of anything either. I'm very good a find things. She is terrible at hiding things. I'm not looking. At this point I don't want to know if she has done or is doing anything.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Adam801 said:


> Married 12 years with three children 7,4,2. My wife has been emotionally closed off. Shows very little if any affection or gratitude. I believed this was been due to the antidepressants she started over 2 years ago. One of the side effects is a low libido. We've talked a lot about bit and with the help of her Dr. she is off of it but little has changed.
> 
> Over the past year she has become increasingly frustrated with me, and my work/hobbies/interests. I'm very upbeat, love just about aspects of my life, but keep myself very busy. She doesn't like how busy I am. I know I keep busy. Part of the reason is so I don't have to deal with the feeling of being alone.
> 
> ...


Just don't lose who you are. You're upbeat, you have hobbies and interests, etc. Even though she complains, it may be the only reason she's still there. You've put value on yourself by living and asking her to participate.

Refreshing to see.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Baldguitarguy said:


> Just wanted to say, you are not alone.
> 
> I could have written what you posted.
> 
> ...


You have to give yourself some outlets, you have to understand theres gonna be times your just not able to bury/hide from it. Some outlets are reconnecting with friends, reading, support from family, a new hobby. Think for me the toughest is bedtime, my wanders very fast, hard to slow down, and once the mind gets busy it becomes its own momentum. If I get to much anxiety up, I just out of bed and do pushups till I cant do another one, then do the same thing but with situps. Physicals stuff bike ride, a run, lifting some weights down at the gym seem to help 2 fold, you feel better about yourself, and you let off steam.

It does get easier over time, and for each person it is different, and theres gonna be ups and down talking to the spouse. KEEP your mind busy, if you work on yourself, in the end your gonna be able to say you gave it your all. I know that's not much support, but this is more about what u can do for yourself than it is what you can do for her. 

I know its sounds like a cliché but to fix your marriage you have to fix yourself first. And in the end, either way, you become a better person looking at yourself in the mirror and fixing your own faults.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

So, basically, your self esteem is in the crapper. At least, around her. You guys have this little anger/resentment cycle going on. She is detached, no doubt about that. However, I'm not sure she has the skills or ability to fix it. Going to MC doesn't help if she won't do the work. (I know this) Sounds like she has lost her idenitity, her passion. SAHM's tend to do that. 

What would she do if you jumped in the shower with her, smacked her butt, and told her that you loved her [email protected]@? Especially after a confrontation.

See, most likely, she feels trapped. The more pressure you put on her to fill your emotional tank, she will feel more drained. Not saying she doesn't need to step up, she does. But, you have to get rid of that anger/resentment/unforgiveness you have going on to stop the cycle.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the comments.

"you have hobbies and interests, etc. Even though she complains, it may be the only reason she's still there."
I've become more of who I was when we were first dating. I've been working out, lost a lot of weight, Been very active and outgoing. That is why she fell in love with me, according to her.

"to fix your marriage you have to fix yourself first" 
I think that's what I'm doing.

"The more pressure you put on her to fill your emotional tank, she will feel more drained."
I realize this and when we talked I tried to stress I need small simple steps. I know she wont change over night. I just need to see small improvements. Seeing change in her will help me trust her more. 

"most likely, she feels trapped." 
I'd agree that being a stay at home mom she feels trapped. It's mental state that she believes exists. I've tried very hard to get her to go on girls nights out, got out with other couples, get a baby sitter during the day if she needs to spend time by her self. I try and take the kids for a while over the weekends so she can get what ever she wants done.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

I need some help/perspective.

Things are going better, not good but better. I feel better, I'm not feeling depressed, anxious or worried. This has been nice. 

My wife has stepped up her game. I feel like she is actually being a good wife, after being lazy for several months. I know it sounds a little crass, but I think it's accurate. I came home, very late, to her cleaning the house, doing dishes, cleaning bathroom, etc. I could tell she was tired and had been working hard. She also wrote a nice little note on the bathroom mirror for me. This is more than she's done in the last eight months.

We still talk. We have a lot to coordinate with kids and scheduled and all. We are polite, but we haven't talked about feeling or emotions yet. Which is good. I'm not ready to start that yet. Maybe in a few more days.

So I want to tell her I appreciate what she is doing. I want her know know that I see her effort. At the same time I scared to compliment her. I'm not sure how to communicate to you guys what/how I feel, but I'm hoping some of you have dealt with this. What should I do? Should I wait to talk about how pleased I'm am with her effort or do I provide more intimidate feedback.

I was thinking of texting her this today:
"I see the effort you are making. Please be patient with me, I'm not ready to reciprocate just yet."

Should a wait and set a time on Saturday or something, where we can talk about us and how things are going.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Adam801 said:


> I need some help/perspective.
> 
> Things are going better, not good but better. I feel better, I'm not feeling depressed, anxious or worried. This has been nice.
> 
> My wife has stepped up her game. I feel like she is actually being a good wife, after being lazy for several months. I know it sounds a little crass, but I think it's accurate. I came home, very late, to her cleaning the house, doing dishes, cleaning bathroom, etc. I could tell she was tired and had been working hard. She also wrote a nice little note on the bathroom mirror for me. This is more than she's done in the last eight months.


Correct me if I'm wrong but there's not infidelity in this picture right? 
So anyway not being depressed, anxious, or worried is a good sign that you understand you only have control of yourself and influence over her.

I think a simple "thank you" is enough when you see she's trying. Really reassurance that you're hopeful about the direction of how things are going may be the key more than thanking her about individual things. 

Boundaries and expectations in marriage of yourself and of her is the jist of what asking her to do more is all about. If she's been depressed too then maybe she knows she hasn't been doing enough but she just couldn't kick-start herself and this was what she needed. After all we try to keep our partners safe and sometimes that means keep them safe from themselves (if possible) when a bad spiral is going on.



Adam801 said:


> We still talk. We have a lot to coordinate with kids and scheduled and all. We are polite, but we haven't talked about feeling or emotions yet. Which is good. I'm not ready to start that yet. Maybe in a few more days.


Honestly, deciding not to settle for a bad marriage and calling her out so to speak is a respectable thing to do. And I think it's just what the doctor ordered because these issues were going to get progressively worse. You'd said she's been constantly frustrated with you for a long time which to me was a sign of not respecting and having seeded animosity.

Taking control of your own life, mentally and physically and asking for what you want (better relationship) are all good moves. And remember if you're trying to get the relationship back on track, it's about how to fix it and make it better and not harping on the past so much.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for the feed back. There has been no infidelity, just emotional abuse I guess. 

I'll pay her a few complements on what she is doing well. I think I'm afraid if I'm too nice she'll think things are fine and slip back into her old habits.


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

_Over the past year she has become increasingly frustrated with me, and my work/hobbies/interests. I'm very upbeat, love just about aspects of my life, but keep myself very busy. She doesn't like how busy I am. I know I keep busy. Part of the reason is so I don't have to deal with the feeling of being alone.

_


Ditch the hobbies and interests that don't involve your family. Find things you can do together.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

BWBill said:


> Ditch the hobbies and interests that don't involve your family. Find things you can do together.


While I see you point I don't think this is realistic. We have a few common interest, we do things as a family, but there are many things we just don't share. I try and support her in her interest, but she hasn't supported me in mine. This has been one of the issues we've had.


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

You choose your priorities.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

BWBill said:


> Ditch the hobbies and interests that don't involve your family. Find things you can do together.


This is hard to know because we're not there but if his wife also wants to work on the marriage then yes they should read *His Needs / Her Needs* where this is a common theme. See if they fall in love again. Now if Adam has "Nice Guy" tendencies then he needs to read nice guy stuff as well.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

What does SHE need to feel better in the marriage? Does she even know? What are you doing to fill her emotional tank?

You know that her love language is time spent and she has told you that she resents your hobbies and your busy schedule but have you cut back? Have you really listened to her?

Also, she does sound possibly depressed. Depression doesn't necessarily mean "sad", it can also mean "numb".

Finally, I don't mean to sound harsh but you come across a little feminine in all of your "you hurt my feelings" and "I'm not ready to be vulnerable". Have you considered that you are a little bit Beta and need to step up the Alpha? Maybe she is disconnected because she doesn't feel excited, energized and supported? She needs a sexy, confident, self-assured husband perhaps. She has 3 kids and her own emotions to deal with. It sounds sexist but she has too much on her plate to take on your emotional issues as well.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Is it possible that your wife really isn't that happy being a sahm but thinks it's what she's supposed to do? I am not a Mormom but I grew up in a heavily Mormom area and the prevailing attitude was that women should be sahm's . It seemed like an awful lot of them were on antidepressants. Maybe she sees you with a career and taking classes and her own life is boring compared to that? Raising kids is an important job for sure, I have two myself, but in this day and age with so many opportunities it can feel like the world is passing you by. Even women that want to stay at home sometimes find they don't like it and then feel guilty because it's been drummed into their head that "nobody else should be raising their kids". Could this be possibility?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

BWBill said:


> _Over the past year she has become increasingly frustrated with me, and my work/hobbies/interests. I'm very upbeat, love just about aspects of my life, but keep myself very busy. She doesn't like how busy I am. I know I keep busy. Part of the reason is so I don't have to deal with the feeling of being alone.
> 
> _
> 
> ...


OP, don't buy blindly into this advice or without first reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

Giving up too much of oneself can be detrimental to you relationship and the viability of your family. Obviously, neglecting to spend enough time with her and the kids will be detrimental too. But the former mistake is very easy to make, and a lot of people here were blind to it as a possibility. It's not obvious to me where you've drawn the line, there. But, if you reflect on that, please understand both sorts of dangers.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

I think I can balance time well. Sometimes things got to give. I understand that. I try to be sensitive. The other night we were talking about me going with a friend (another guy) to the symphony rather than with her. She was hoping that because she wasn't going I wouldn't go. She was offended that I was still going and said "You really like that stuff?" My heart sank when I heard this. after 14 years of knowing each other how could she not know what music I like. 

I may not go as often, but I'm not going to stop just because she doesn't like going. 

She will go to them but she gets burned out. I may go to a total if 7 or 8 performances a year.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

She's gone to three of the last seven I've gone to.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Adam801 said:


> I may go to a total if 7 or 8 performances a year.


Imho, if your going to that many, throw your wife a bone and don't go to it. She went to a few? and you still went to 7? I can understand why she feels like she's low on your priority list.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Thumper said:


> Imho, if your going to that many, throw your wife a bone and don't go to it. She went to a few? and you still went to 7? I can understand why she feels like she's low on your priority list.


I gave up just about everything I liked, because she either expressed disinterest or dislike of it, or because I felt leaving her alone with the kids an extra hour here or there might break her.

She now tells me she hates me, because that old version of me that used to be so interested in so many different things is gone -- checked out, left her.

Maybe there's a fine line, but beware once you cross it it can be a very slippery slope.

Consider saying, "sounds like your disappointed I won't be spending that two hours with you. Lets make plans to spend double that time together thus weekend doing something together you enjoy." Ymmv.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

adam801 - I have a link that your wife might find useful, maybe it will give her some ideas of ways to show her love and affection for you, they are bonding behaviors, some are sexual but many aren't and can be done easily every day... little things done often make a huge difference IMO to how loved and special we feel.

The Lazy Way to Stay in Love | Psychology Today

Seeing as she has asked what she could do it seems a shame not to help her out (I doubt she is a mind reader). The article would at least be a way to bring about a discussion on the subject. Are there things on the list you would look her to do for/to/with you?


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

To guage it, I would probably offer her that two hours to do something she wanted. Like I said, if it was something being done only once or twice a year, then ok, but 7 or 8? If she didn't want to spend that time on something else with him, maybe she's testing him?? During these situations, they call it "negotiating", I understand not losing one's identity, but one event doesn't really make that much difference if its a chance to save the marriage, and show you care about her feelings. Theres got to be some give, until the decision is made to make no more attempts.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

She's decided to have some girls over for a movie night while I go out. I'm ok going without her. It doesn't happen that often especially of the period of a year. 

I didn't want to marry a clone if me. We have different tastes. I like our differences. I don't need to do everything with her. It's nice to try things she like even though I don't, I am a bit jealous of other couples who share a lot in common. Yes it does present some friction and problems. But that's the choice we made when we got married. I'm not looking for her to be supportive of everything. One or two thing would be nice.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Thank you all again for you input and feedback I may not have time to comment on all of it but I do read it and ponder on it. 

We had a short talk, then a longer one. 

I thanked her for the things I saw her doing that I appreciated. Expressed my regret for having such a busy schedule and not taking into account the stress it would have on our relationship. I really didn't know, that is just a big oops. Now classes are over, I've learned and will know better next time. I said I would talk more with her before taking on other/extra projects classes. That was the short talk. It went very well.

The long talk was about 30 minutes latter where she just laid into all the emotions she was feeling. A bit taxing for me but I calmly listened and answered a few more questions. Some things I've realized from this. She has some intimacy problem. Emotions are not always cut and dry. On the one hand she is very upset that I have not hugged or kissed her but I have hugged and kissed the kids. On the other hand, for a while now, she has no romantic desires. Her labido is just tuned off. I will hug an kiss her again I just need time to feel emotionally safe. 

One the one hand I feel bad for what she is feeling. On the other I think she is finally feeling what I have been going through the last few months. We talked about that and it seemed to be a bit of an eye opener for her.

She is getting impatient, and wants things to get better faster. I keep telling her to patient, we are moving in the right direction, don't rush it and miss the import feeling, insights and events that happen as we repair our relationship. 

She said the ball is my court, I control when, if, and how fast we move forward. I kind of put it back on her and said that all depends on how she acts (not what she says). I don't think she liked that. I could tell she was getting a little frustrated and not knowing what to do and how. I explained again that I want to feel like I'm important to her. I don't need surprises. I you want to do something like make me lunch but don't know what to make, simple say "I'd like to make your lunch, what would you like." That is good enough for me. Even if I have a lunch meeting and don't need one, I know that she was thinking of me. That is what is key to me. Also not yelling. If she need to correct me (cuz I know I'm not perfect) she need to be very careful about the words she uses. I don't need a lecture, just informed. I feel [...] when you do [...].

I went on to tell her I envision this healing to progress like a new relationship. Fist you find some you like (done). You start spend time with them to get to know them (we are doing this now). At some point you realizes you want to spend more time with them, and become romantically interested in them. You start to flirt with them, you want to become physical with them, then intimate. In a nutshell. It may take a few weeks or month or two. I don't know. I'm not going to drag it out. 

She has been really worried about our future and how to act around me and what to tell if anything to other (close) friends. I explained that this is what i would say to them:
"Rather then me going on about what's wrong with our relationship let me tell you what is right. We have some issues we are working through but so does every body at some point. We are working on them, which is more than I can say for a lot of people with marital issues. We both believe we can get through it. Having a temple marriage (we're Mormon and got married in the temple, which we believe is an eternal marriage existing beyond this life) so this low difficult point in our relationship will seem small when compared to the last 12 years and beyond. When we get though it we'll have a stronger relationship because of it. Will take that knowledge and share it with others who struggle and maybe even our own kids when they struggle in relationships.

She felt a little better after that. I think she has a bit more hope in us.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Adam801 said:


> On the one hand she is very upset that I have not hugged or kissed her but I have hugged and kissed the kids.


First of all, I thought the whole point of this thread is that she is not affectionate enough. Now you are not being affectionate? Maybe this is a circle where neither of you is being affectionate enough, so that turns the other one off, and so on and so on.



Adam801 said:


> I will hug an kiss her again I just need time to feel emotionally safe.


To be honest again, if my husband said something this womanly, I would be turned off too. My libidio would be less than 0.



Adam801 said:


> I could tell she was getting a little frustrated and not knowing what to do and how. I explained again that I want to feel like I'm important to her.


It sounds like everything is focused on what SHE needs to do to make YOU feel better and make YOU feel important. Are you making her feel important and appreciated? Marriage is a two-way street and you seem very focused on only making her fix her side and doing nothing on your side. It sounds like your hobbies are more important to you than your wife's feelings.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

justonelife said:


> It sounds like everything is focused on what SHE needs to do to make YOU feel better and make YOU feel important. Are you making her feel important and appreciated? Marriage is a two-way street and you seem very focused on only making her fix her side and doing nothing on your side. It sounds like your hobbies are more important to you than your wife's feelings.


I realize you're only getting part of the picture. Maybe I haven't explained how my time has been spent very well. In any case. There has been a lack of work on our relationship over time. That's both our fault. 

I say we have gone back and forth over the years were one of us feel like we're not getting attention and we re-orient ourselves and time. Again I think this is typical and normal. 

I believe what has happened; we stopped communicating and just acted. I got hurt and withdraw a bit, she gets hurt and withdraws a bit. This continued over years.



justonelife said:


> Maybe this is a circle where neither of you is being affectionate enough, so that turns the other one off, and so on and so on.


Yes, A few months ago we realized our distance and committed to work on our relationship. I did a lot work to romance her and to show she's important to me. She did a lot of talking and took almost no action. I've realized that this is very common for her. Lots of talk, little action. I wanted to feel like I'm important to her. She ended up doing the opposite. I guess I was the first one to hit the point where I said I've had enough.

So while yes she is expressing that she want's more affection and emotion now I can't give it to her, yet.

If someone lies to you, you don't start trusting them right away. You slowly build up trust again.

If some hits you, you make sure stay out of arms reach until they have proven they wont hit again.

Emotionally I was hurt very bad. I can't just put things back the way they were that fast. I need time. I don't doubt that I have hurt her too. 



justonelife said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Adam801 View Post
> I will hug an kiss her again I just need time to feel emotionally safe.
> To be honest again, if my husband said something this womanly, I would be turned off too. My libidio would be less than 0.


Right now I'm not worried about sex. I want to feel safe around her. I want to enjoy spending time with her. That's my goal right now. Well get to the physical part latter.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

justonelife said:


> It sounds like your hobbies are more important to you than your wife's feelings.


Since I've been getting a bit of flack about this let me go into a bit more detail about this.

I'm an artist. I work full time for a college and freelance clients. At time work does get very busy. I've been very luck in that money is not an issue. We have been saving a lot for retirement and for the kids college and what not. Don't think that I'm workaholic. I love to work but when I'm away from my wife I compensate for that with more frequent and elaborate date nights. I may have one week every other month where I work 80 hours. The other 3 it's a 9-5.

On average my wife gets at least a hour, some times two with me during the week. This is time after we've put the kids to bed. Sometimes she's so tired she doesn't want to do any thing. I would have be fine with just sitting in the dark holding her hand. To me this was the time I wanted to feel important. I wanted some attention and rarely got any.

On Sunday we spend time together as a family. Saturdays are generally house/yard work, followed by some family, couple, or personal actives. I'll usually take the kids for 2-4 hours so she can do what ever she need to do.
Date nights are usual once a week on Friday or Saturday.

I get to take classes for free so I'm working on a Masters Program This term, which is now over, I took a bit more than I should have. Lessoned learned. Next term I'll take less classes. 

I like working on cars. I spend time make sure we both have reliable cars, maintaing them. I do have a project car. For the most part that has been on hold for the last 6 months. I'll might spend an hour a week total doing some small thing on my project car after I've worked on our cars.

I like working on the house fixing things. I've built my wife a very large garden area. Kids put holes on the walls. I've been patching painting them so our home looks nice. There are all the other general yard work to do.

I like to build models (the plastic kind) It's something I've always done, It's a hobby I pick up from my dad. My dad and I go to meeting one a month. For the last year this hobby has been put on hold.

I like to draw and paint. This corresponds to my career but I've put on hold all my personal projects.

There are lots of other hobbies I have which have been on hold for about a year now.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I think more and more that you guys need to read "His Needs / Her Needs". It seems like you both want to the same thing but neither of you knows steps to get there.


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## Adam801 (Apr 21, 2013)

Just an update for you all. Things have been getting better. It's been 2 steps forward one step back kind of experience. I've been more open with here about my feelings and specific that's that bother me. And the reverse, her communicating more with me. That seems to help, basic communication skills.


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