# Thinking of cancelling my wedding, please, help.



## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Hello.
This is my attempt to get an opinion from a group of people who are not my friends and are not biased in a sense of being protective of me. I’m not convinced I’m not over-reacting and trying to gather up some opinions.

I am thinking about postponing my wedding.
I split up with the ex-husband in January 2014 (lack of moral or financial support, drinking, name calling lack of involvement with children, living apart x 1.5 yrs due to jobs being in different states). The divorce has dragged out and was final in December 2015. 
I took about a year after the break-up in January 2014 and have not been seeing anyone. I have my kids to enjoy and care for, a good social network, a great job, that just started to be well-paying about 8 months after I told my husband I wanted a divorce. 
(Before then, I worked about 80 hours a week with two jobs to make ends meet, care for the children, pay all bills- I was not dating material and wouldn’t welcome a new man to my life after being hurt for years in a dysfunctional marriage).
When I was ready to start dating, there was not a line of candidates at my door, so I decided to use a dating website. I must confess, that is a nasty business, and thankfully I met my new man fairly quickly, after about 2 months of looking. About a month or two after meeting him we both felt committed and broke off any other links, though it took him longer than me. Around May 2015 we said “I love you”s. Our relationship flourished. It was love as they write it up in books. As you see “happy relationship” articles on Facebook. Despite our differences, we always have subjects for conversations, were willing listeners, enjoyed introducing each other to our interests, travelling some. I introduced him to many of my friends, including the long-distance ones. I have moved from another state, some of my close and real friends have moved, so I have loved ones all over the country (and abroad).We introduced our kids to each other, as well. He seemed to not be thrilled with my children’s behavior (girls almost 9 and 11). He told me many times that I am lax, not a good disciplinarian, that my younger one is a brat. Since I am off on a tangent, I will clarify here, these girls have not really had a solid father figure. I moved away to another state ( 16 hour driving from prior house) in 2012 for a job, and the ex elected to not move with me and to not help me any financially, he was just waiting out for a 2 year period to end, for me to start making money, and then get back to living together. I had to take care of two children, and the little one, then 5, has lived with my parents away from me, as it is hard to maintain an 80 hour flexible work week, take care of 2 children and have no help from the spouse. I was very fortunate to make new friend in the new town, have great social life (all solid married couples with my education level and various interests) and lots of support and kindness towards me and my girls. But they didn’t see much participation in up-bringing and discipline from their father. I admit I am not a firm disciplinarian. Regardless, my BF learned good sides of my children and eventually came to like them. He has three kids reared differently than mine, there are good and bad ways. Overall, his are good kids, I had no issues with them (except the influence of their mother). 
So, we all seemed to get along. We started thinking about getting married several months after meeting, it happened insidiously, we just knew we are meant to be together. There were lots of issues with the ex-wife, hurt feelings for my BF, she was easily getting under his skin and he let her bother him, offend him, said nasty things to him, he would react in at outrage sometimes, that hurt me also. I do not think he was ready for a solid relationship when we met. I think he wanted to meet someone for long-term relationship, but he was not completely over his ex at that point. That has since changed. I see a big difference in him. His ex still tries to intentionally hurt him, tells him every chance she gets he was a bad husband, that he is a bad father etc. He is much better at handling it.
We have talked about what went wrong with our prior marriages. For me, I was 21 when I met my then 39 year old man, fell in love, married. Looking back, he really didn’t want to have kids (had one son from previous marriage), had champagne taste and beer pocket, spent a lot, drank, ran up credit card debt behind my back, ruined my credit, called me names, got physical a couple of times in a drunk outrage which involved calling the police on one occasion, not involved with kids. I was busy working on my career, working at home (and doing the yard first 3 years of marriage until I got pregnant). It took me a while to see, that while using my youth and beauty, this man also used other people, borrowing money without intentions to pay back. Only recently I have read an article about gaslighting and realized, that this is how my 12 years of marriage went, he was a classic gas-lighter.

For my current fiancé, his issue was that the ex became unfaithful. He believes that he didn’t make enough money to make his ex happy, that she didn’t do all housework, went out with her girlfriends, was not affectionate with him or kis, had a body image issue. But he admittedhe was at times expressing his disagreement with her behavior with anger, called her names, yelled. Supposedly, mainly due to his anger she became distant and then left him. She is still trying to alienate the children from him and every chance she gets, she tries to convince him he is a bad person.

We had our happy love days without any quarrels. We got engaged in May 2016. We had our first fight in June 2016. The reason was stupid and minor, but the way we both handled it was terrible. This was the first time he raised his voice and used curse words at me. It was 2 days before my birthday. I was upset that he didn’t listen to me or try to understand my viewpoint and tried avoiding discussing it, while I tried too many times to explain it different ways while he was not at all willing to listen. Due to the nature of my profession and training, I attempted to be a counsellor for us. We talked about the issues, and came up with some code words, in case one of us feels anger is building up and we needed to stop the escalation. It took a while to talk out the actual issue in a peaceful manner. I didn’t feel good about our relationship until he was willing to listen to me and UNDERSTAND my point, not necessarily agree with it. I believe if he was willing to listen to how I see the situation, there wouldn’t have been a fight to start with. But he had a different opinion, and instead of listening to mine, he resisted and closed down and didn’t even want to hear me out.
We had a great summer together. My children spend several weeks with their father out of state in the summer. Thus my fiancé and I spent quality time together. We did things each of us likes. We took fishing trips and went to the beach. Just being on the road together for hours was special. All trips were enjoyable, and there was just so much love. We had a fight on one of the trips. I have to confess, I am sensitive to when he looks at other women. And he is a kind of guy who looks like his jaw drops when he sees an attractive woman. That bothers me. He explained, that he loves only me, and would never think about having sex with another woman. He just likes to look at pretty. He doesn’t look- he STARES. He says every man does that. I disagree. At least they don’t stare in that obvious manner. And, frankly, I don’t look at other men. I may look at a jacket that looks nice on someone and think- that would be a good one for my BF to have. But never in a way that I am astonished by some other man’s looks. Anyway. The fight was about him staring at some person, then telling me any man would. Then, he proceeded to tell me about beautiful movie stars that he considers hot despite me blatantly spouting to him that it bothers me. So, that’s how the fight started. It did go too far with him yelling and cursing at me and me crying, I even smacked him on his back ( hard), but we did use the code words and calmed down. It took a couple of days to talk it out and for me to feel good about this relationship again. Now, he tells me I have unreasonable jealousy. I may. I don’t deny that. I do not want to sit at a restaurant with a man who is following an attractive woman with his eyes while he is out on a date with me. If you see some legs that crossed your line of view, you don’t have to proceed to evaluate with your eyes and try to see what else is there. You have your fiancée’s legs. I think, for a committed man it is best to learn to do that, period, - not just when he is with his significant other by his side. That way it’s a change of behaviour and not a cover up. He tells me he likes to show me off. I do not like when men stare at me. I have seen that in restaurants when a couple of heads turn (to me). I see those stareres and feel for their wives. He has told me that he likes when other men look at me and envy him on what he has and make them jealous. He says that makes him proud. That issue is not too pronounced, it bothers me a little. I look good for myself, first of all, and like to be made up when he is around. I wear makeup and nice clothes anyway for work. I take a Saturday off with no makeup with flip flops, and it doesn’t bother me to look natural one day a week.

We discussed wedding plans over the summer, and he says, he doesn’t want a wedding, he just wants to get married. He suggested going to the justice of the peace. My first wedding was a joke. It was my first husband’s second marriage, and I didn’t have a white dress, we had 7 people altogether, we got married at a winery- good set up to continue drinking after that, ended up with an alcoholic. I told my fiancée, that I want a wedding. An occasion. A festivity. A solemn and significant happy day. Someone suggested a destination wedding, and I asked if he’d like to go to the beach. He said, he hates beach and wouldn’t want a beach wedding. I suggested some picturesque place like some lake, and asked him to come up with an idea other than the beach. All he could come up with was, let’s go to the justice of the peace and sign papers. So the wedding talk subsided some.
I am from Russia (NOT an internet bride- find that despicable), and most of my family (except for my kids) are still there. But over the years I made many friends here, all are scattered throughout the country. So, for my friends it would not matter where to come to my wedding- to our small provincial town, or to another place for a destination wedding. My fiancé has two or three couples he would invite, and they are also not local. So, to his guests it also shouldn’t matter, where we hold the wedding, locally or elsewhere.
In August I bought a house. Originally, I was coming to this town only for two years, but after the two years I found a position which is very nice, and staid. I lived at a rental house before with intentions to move, ended up living there for 4 years. When thinking of a house purchase, the size and layout, amount of rooms/bathrooms and the type of yard, I considered my fiancée and his 3 kids. Extra room/bathroom because of them, and a corner lot, accessible and big enough yard to hold boats and a workshop. When I went to apply for the loan, even though I had saved for the downpayment, I could not get a decent loan. My ex husband messed up my credit so bad in months that we lived apart but still married, it is unbelievable. That was a sock I lived through, but my fiancé came out and offered to cosign on the loan. I am paying the mortgage and bills, but he is a cosigner, which I greatly appreciate. He also helped me move. I was going to hire a moving company, but then my dad offered to come from Russia, and between my fiancé and my dad, we moved over a week. We had a fight during the move; it was very tense and stressful. Basically, according to the BF (I will use BF and fiancé interchangeably) I didn’t pack boxes fast and well enough, didn’t unpack fast enough, and the new house is too cluttered to his taste. ( He is keeping is house, and I will withhold comments on its cleanliness). He did all the men work for my move and now expects me to unload. Well, I work and I have two children. (Oh, and I have been planning a wedding for the last month). There are still a few boxes in the garage and the office/piano room is still much cluttered. It is getting done very slowly. He calmed down about it, as he did see me fix the dining room nicely and the living room, as well. That fight was pretty much forgotten quickly. We had some problems with the new house. A pipe issue, bad roof leak, a dead tree branch, and every time I had an issue and freaked out, he would come over, look at things, re-assure me. He found a roofer and tree service to take care of things (I had to pay, but I appreciate him setting me up with the companies).
Early August he called me and said- we are getting married in Panama City On November… ( say 4th). I was ecstatic that he actually came out and agreed to a beach wedding. He later told me, that he talked to some friends, and they gave him good reasons to go for a beach wedding. Now, that’s as far as he went. He told me the place and the date. He said, he didn’t know anything about wedding planning and told me to plan it. I have never been to a wedding (don’t laugh, its true- I have been to a couple of church ceremonies, but that’s it). I had to learn everything about a wedding, including the difference between ceremony and reception. I now know every wedding service company on Florida panhandle right now, their prices, their packages, their drawbacks and advantages. I was trying to stay within a budget of $10000, including dress, accommodations and travel arrangements. We will have probably 20-30 guests, half of which will be children. Wedding companies wanted too much money, and I started investigating doing everything separately, a la carte. I can tell you about most Panama City resort, the size and price of their ballrooms, catering menus. I am employed full time 40H a week, have two children fully in my care, who have activities at least 4 times a week, their homework, and 50% of the meals here are made at home. (That is to say, I am busy). I found time to read all about this stuff on my lunch break and till midnight almost every night, reading Wedding Wire, sending emails and calling places. I tried to update the BF along the process, sending him different variants of arrangements, trying to get his input. To him, it all sounded complicated, expensive, fancy, and he respectfully declined to take part in decision making. I wanted him to contribute, so I suggested we learn a wedding dance. He agreed, found a dance teacher, and we went to two classes to learn a waltz. I also asked how much he could contribute financially. He sorta said that he already gave me a ring, and it was his contribution. But then, when I found a restaurant, he agreed to put his credit card number to reserve the date. I also found out that there is beach fee, a refundable deposit. He agreed to give them the credit card number for that also. After a month of my intense work on this, I wanted to finalize lounging arrangements. I found a nice beach resort, a discount coupon for the stay, and picked 3 condos which could potentially fit the two of us and the 5 children (potentially my mother, if she was able to come from Russia). To me it’s important that everyone is happy and that he doesn’t hate the interior of this 3BR 3BA condo. Also, I wanted to make sure he is OK with which child sleeps in which bed, and who shares a bed with who without my mom having to be on a sleeper sofa. I emailed him this explanation with a link, asking to take a look at the rooms, so we could pick one that everyone is happy with, and I would pay for it. Here comes the big fight.
Last Monday I came home from work, made dinner for my children, fed them, then he came over tired after a long day. He was sat down and fed dinner (it was not to his taste, but he was OK). We needed to practice our waltz, as we had our second lesson coming up tomorrow, and we did not practice, and I didn’t want to be like a kid who didn’t do their homework. I asked him if he had a chance to look at the rooms yet. He said he got the e-mail, but didn’t understand the purpose of it, coz I was gonna do everything my way anyway. Wait a minute. I consulted you on every step, and you refused to give your opinion. Now you are not wanting to look at rooms to help decide what best sleeping arrangements for all kids would be? He said, he was tired after a long day at work and needed to sit and rest. I said, you rest, I’m going to the shower. When I came back and asked if he was ready, he said, he took a look, but had a hard time finding the rooms on the link that I sent. I asked if he was ready to practice dance- he said, he needed to shower first. I then went upstairs to say goodnights to my children, and when I returned, he was in the master bathroom, but the shower was not running. I was also tired, wanted to get done with the day and go to bed early and started getting irritated with him. I went to bed and timed 20 minutes- the shower was still not running. I knocked on the door and said, I thought you were showering. He said, “I can’t find peace from you even in the bathroom” and went in the shower. I was curled up in bed stewing. He came from the bathroom, and I didn’t immediately open my arms. He said something to the effect, is this how I’m going to be treated? You don’ let me rest and don’t understand that I get tired? At that point I started on with “Playing on the phone is more important to you than your wedding planning”, “ I’m also tired, but sitting on your butt looking at pictures of wedding accommodations via link served to you on a silver plate is not tiring”, “ You don’t care about your own wedding”- that type of stuff. I then said- now is a good time for you to ask me, if I’d like to practice dance or look at the rooms online. He said- no, roll over to me and love on me. I wouldn’t. So he started loudly saying the following:” I’m sick of this bull****. I will not be forced into doing what I don’t want to do. I’m not gonna jump when you say jump. You want this wedding. I don’t need you for me to be happy. We don’t have to get married. I know how to re-claim my free time. I now see that your husband is better off without you and you made him miserable”. With tears chocking me I tried to explain how I felt, that I wanted his contribution, his opinion, that we needed to practice dance to not look like fools at the dance teacher’s tomorrow. I didn’t ask him to mow lawn. What I asked for was an easy activity. He wouldn’t hear. He said- you are talking over me and I don’t want to hear any more of your nonsense. If you say another word, I will leave. I kept on with “Your wedding is not important to you”. He walked out. I called him ten minutes later. He said, are you calling me with more nonsense or do you want to apologize. I said something polite and we hung up. He came back. In the morning, we ate breakfast and went to the dance class as planned. Of note, I took a day off because he had an eye doctor appointment, and he wanted me to help him pick out new frames. And then we decided, that since both are taking a day off, we scheduled the dance class, in advance. We were not talking much at the dance class. On the way back he asked me if I was still angry, I said yes. He said, I’m not gonna talk to you until you get over your anger. I said, OK. We got home, and I wouldn’t really talk, just started doing house chores (remember, I need to unclutter the office). He did not suggest we look at rooms. And then the verbal fight started. He told me I hold on to anger for too long and am punishing him with love withdrawal. I was too upset to talk! My expressions were discounted and called nonsense. He tried to tell me, that I made him feel like I was controlling his evening and wouldn’t let him rest. Well, he had 10 minutes on the couch when I went to the shower, and later locked up in the bathroom and claimed his 20 minutes playing on his phone. He got what he thought was his. And I got a bucket of poo poured over my head in his logorrhea, offensive terms and basically was told he doesn’t want the wedding and I am forcing him. And I don’t have a right to be upset and withdrawn? I was holding back tears. I tried again to explain how I felt yesterday. He said- you wouldn’t allow me to have a break. Do you know how hard I work? I said, I work also, and I am also tired. But there are things that need to be done, and you have rested 10 minutes on the couch and 20 minutes “in the shower”. He wanted me to apologize and admit fault that I didn’t let him rest. I was not about to. He didn’t like the fact that I was piddling around the house with small jobs and wouldn’t talk. He told me that I’m ballistic, that I have terrible temper, that I have uncontrolled anger and that I am worse than his ex-wife has ever been. He said, he made another mistake and invested himself in another dysfunctional relationship, he can see my true colors now. I had a nervous laugh in disbelief. I have had the inappropriate affect before, laughing while crying at my grandmother’s funeral. May be he thought I was laughing at him. He then said, you will never see me again, and slammed the door. Not a minute later he returned and yelled at my face:” You know what? Here comes the word. You are a btch!” That was a hit below the belt.
He asked me in the past, what would be a deal breaker, what hurt me most in my marriage. I told him, when my ex called me names and yelled at me. The end of my first marriage was as follows. As the ex was making his umpteenth drink, and my daughter was running in the kitchen, the ex said in front of her: “You are a fat btch”. The girl stood between us with her fists in her sides and said to him: “Don’t you talk like that to my mommy”. The drunk arse pushed her away hard and I caught her, and that was what made up my mind to divorce that man. 
And here is the man who loves me and I’m about to marry tells me.
He slammed the door another time, and returned in a few minutes. He wanted to talk, said he shouldn’t have said what he said. I couldn’t talk. I was shocked, I was crushed, belittled, by a person who I love. He asked me to say something, I told him I was hurting. He asked for a hug, and couldn’t get near him. He tried to push again with “You wouldn’t let me rest”, but had not much to say, as I was not responding back. Then he said, why don’t you just tell me to leave, and I said: “leave”. He left.
That night I cried at my friends’ house. The girl who was going to be my maid of honor. Her husband who, before I gained the BF, has helped with stuff at the house. They were shocked. They are my support team. Their opinion is, postpone the wedding. I remembered the wedding. I just ordered the invitations the day before. I was not thinking postpone. I did not call the invitation place to cancel the $300 order.
I was hurting for days ( it has been 9 days). I have never been treated like that. I don’t know what to make out of it. The apologies that came in sounded like- I was wrong for what I’ve done, now you need to be sorry for what you’ve done. You are an angry person, you stew and hold on to your madness instead of letting go and communicating. You have a bad temper (Me?). He wants me to tell him I love him- I can’t. It doesn’t feel the same any more. I am not angry. I am shocked and withdrawn. I don’t think it’s the anger, but bitterness that is preventing me from giving him love now. I don’ think it’s fair on his part to accuse me of withdrawing love or expect me to act affectionate.
He then told me, that to protect himself financially, he cancelled the credit cards for the beach fee and the restaurant.
I suggested counselling. We went to see a counsellor. He was apologetic and seemed to have acknowledged his fault. The counselor quietly said that- well Ok, the two of you delay the wedding. And asked him to come for individual sessions. He is agreeable.
What to do about the wedding? I am in pain and do not want to make a mistake. I have a month of all my free time and about $1500 invested in this. Two of my friends have booked hotels in Panama City for our wedding. I have a house larger than I need, and the yard different from what I would have ideally wanted just for myself. And, if you postpone a wedding, how do you go on with the relationship? You will always look back on that and frown. What if we postpone it, and two weeks later we are like two love birds and resentful that we postponed? What if we don’t postpone, and I send the invitations, and we fight more, and I don’t get the feelings back? What do I do about the dress? Buy it (I have a deposit on it which is non-refundable), or let them have the dress and the deposit? It needs some alterations, so if I am getting married, I need to go in and have it altered soon.
He wants me to tell him everything is going to be OK, that I love him. I think I still love him, but it is not the same. And he goes back and removes his credit card from the places that I found, booked and worked on? And then tells me, he doesn’t want to cancel the wedding, he just did it to protect himself financially?
This is a man who I considered my MAN, my fortress, my support, my ally, who suddenly turned on me. I feel insecure and I lost trust in him.
We are talking and seeing each other. We are not mean to each other. I am trying to avoid saying anything at all, I am afraid he will take simple things the wrong way. Like me asking for 15 minutes spent on OUR wedding stuff was interpreted as me trying to control him in some way. I don’t want to control anyone. And I don’t want drama. To me he was a strong reliable man, the one. But not anymore.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts are appreciated. Moderator, if this is considered under an inappropriate spot, please move it as you see fit.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

You two are not ready to be married.......others will chime in shortly with more details.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

It seems to me that you two do not get along well enough to have a nice and comfortable relationship. Yes, couples can occasionally have disagreements and feel unhappy with each other, but the disagreements do not turn into heated arguments that include threats. Futhermore, your fiance feels that he needs to protect himself financially from you by pulling his credit card number. At least, delay the wedding and take a more reasonable time to get to know each other.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I think you guys need to go to couples therapy.



Sent from my iPhone


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

He is not ready, his words do not match his actions, that to me is a big red flag. you can either continue to date with him but his definitely not over his ex...and as long as she is controlling his mood he will never be yours. he has a lot of growing up to do.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow honey, I really tried but I could not finish reading that post it was just too long. Sorry!!

From what I did read I would say please don't get married to this guy.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

He didn't want to practice the waltz with you.... 

This sounds familiar.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

DMMD said:


> Hello.
> This is my attempt to get an opinion from a group of people who are not my friends and are not biased in a sense of being protective of me. I’m not convinced I’m not over-reacting and trying to gather up some opinions.
> 
> I am thinking about postponing my wedding.
> ...


I just added the missing paragraph breaks. I could see where most of them should be so it was fairly easy to reformat it. 

You know something, when his ex wife says what a horrible person he is? Perhaps she is right.

Don't marry him. Yet. Or maybe ever.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Satya said:


> He didn't want to practice the waltz with you....
> 
> This sounds familiar.




Most definitely.


Sent from my iPhone


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

He is now comfortable enough with you that he is showing you who he really is. That guy who is yelling, slaming doors, etc. That’ him. If you marry him, it’s only going to get worse.

And no, all men do not openly stare that way over women. That’s his sh!t test. The first test he pulled to see if he could give you a line of crap. It worked. Look at how you handled that… sure you fussed, but you stayed with him. When that worked, he found out that you have low confidence and low self esteem. He can lie to you, mistreat you, etc and you will make excuses for him.

Do you now what the difference is between women who get into abusive relationships and those that don’t? Those who do have lousy boundaries and let their abusive partner walk all over them. Those who are not in abusive relationships have strong boundaries and walk away the FIRST time they guy breaks one of their boundaries.

Dump this guy. Don’t just postpone the wedding. What’s the point of postponing it, he’s not going to change for the better? What you see is what you get.
Look on Amazon.com for books about setting boundaries. 
And YOU get into individual counseling to figure out why you have no real boundaries, low confidence, and low self-esteem. And fix yourself.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> He is now comfortable enough with you that he is showing you who he really is. That guy who is yelling, slaming doors, etc. That’ him. If you marry him, it’s only going to get worse.
> 
> And no, all men do not openly stare that way over women. That’s his sh!t test. The first test he pulled to see if he could give you a line of crap. It worked. Look at how you handled that… sure you fussed, but you stayed with him. When that worked, he found out that you have low confidence and low self esteem. He can lie to you, mistreat you, etc and you will make excuses for him.
> 
> ...


^^This.

I'm sorry this happened to you honey...call off the wedding. Cut your losses now - a divorce will cost you a lot more than $1500. Your friends will understand.

Understand that if you marry this guy, you may as well have stayed married to your first husband. What sort of example will he be for your girls?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I was engaged last year, and we broke it off about 4 months ago. It was the best decision for both of us. Amazing chemistry and getting caught up in planning a wedding, aren't good reasons to get married, and think this happened to us both. He wanted to live together before getting married, and I didn't want that, one thing led to another...and pretty soon, it was clear that our worldviews were far apart. Now, I'm in a great relationship now with someone who I was friends with for a few years, and shortly after my breakup, he told me his feelings. We took a chance and took things to another level, and so glad I did. The point is, it's better to postpone a wedding or even not get married at all, if in your heart of hearts, you don't want to marry the person. I'll keep you in my thoughts, don't do something that you feel in your gut, is not the right thing.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> I was engaged last year, and we broke it off about 4 months ago. It was the best decision for both of us. Amazing chemistry and getting caught up in planning a wedding, aren't good reasons to get married, and think this happened to us both. He wanted to live together before getting married, and I didn't want that, one thing led to another...and pretty soon, it was clear that our worldviews were far apart. Now, I'm in a great relationship now with someone who I was friends with for a few years, and shortly after my breakup, he told me his feelings. We took a chance and took things to another level, and so glad I did. The point is, it's better to postpone a wedding or even not get married at all, if in your heart of hearts, you don't want to marry the person. I'll keep you in my thoughts, don't do something that you feel in your gut, is not the right thing.


As always....wise beyond your years......!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

10 minutes of rest was requested.
Not for physical rest, just to calm my nerves from dealing with 150 middle school kids, then solving 50 adult's problems, then coaching an undefeated softball team with 12 parents who each think their child is a superstar and wants more playing time, in a game that the other team was so terrible we played two innings in 75 minutes.
Then I return to a woman who needs the yard mowed pronto, lamps put together, hotel rooms perused, and waltz lessons practiced. And not ten minutes from now---- right this second. 

And when I spend 10 minutes too long in the shower, gets upset and times me until I get out.

When I finally get upset about the 45 minute scolding she gives me and won't admit to, and give her a scolding back, she gets even more upset. The next day, she still wants to fight, tells me she doesn't want to touch me, doesn't want to get married, etc. etc, She starts smiling when I get so upset my words were getting slurred, and eventually starts laughing. It didn't look like a nervous laugh to me. And yes, at that I definitely lost my temper. 
And to all you perfect people who have never lost your tempers and said things you regretted or raised your voices in anger---I'll hopefully get to raise my glass in honor of your emotional superiority one day.

No, I'm not perfect. But I don't claim to be. I said I'm sorry and admitted my shame. I can't change the past, but I am able to be happy with my future, whatever it holds. If I am unworthy of this lady whom I care so deeply for, I will try to be more worthy of the next. One thing is certain, I do a lot for her, and 599 out of 600 days I've been a pretty easy to get along with guy. My whole weekend is being spent taking care of her needs as we speak. And it's not the first weekend like that.

I personally feel the dump comments are from people who have no long term relationships themselves. If they did, they'd have enough experience to know that people aren't perfect. 
I know I'm not, but I am very confident there's a woman out there that I'm perfect for. If not, that's fine, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I love to read but honestly couldn't get thru your original post. 

Bottom line is it's easier to NOT get married than to get unmarried later. Just the fact you are able to list so many concerns and differences should be enough for you to say "no"... and good bye. 

You two do not make each other happy, why struggle trying?


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

IMO getting married at this stage isn't going to work..for the both of you.
You guys obviously have a lot to figure out.


Sent from my iPhone


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

There was so many red flags in your post on reason not to get married, you slapping him, him with the name calling. You need to do some work on yourself because it seems like you left one dysfunctional man to hook up with another one. You need to improve you, so you don't look for these men as your self worth will be too high to consider being with these a**holes. What we are willing to put up with is a reflection on how we view ourself, imo. Also think about the bad example this sets for your kids. This kind of fighting is not good to have in the house with children around, especially if you don't want your girls to grow up thinking that this is how a man treats a woman, and I'm sure you don't as you left your first husband.I wish you all the best and don't settle for less than what you deserve.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> She starts smiling when I get so upset my words were getting slurred, and eventually starts laughing. It didn't look like a nervous laugh to me. And yes, at that I definitely lost my temper.


You both have so much anger and resentment built up, you both have so many issues that it's beyond anyone here to even begin to offer advice. You both need a professional. It's a wonder there are any love deposits left for either of you.

But I will say, that the above triggered me. My ex H used to treat me exactly the same when I had to ever defend myself from his gas lighting. And let me tell you... When a person you are trying to express yourself to behaves like that, you should just leave the room. That is the behavior of a person that does not love you or want to resolve things. At best, it's the behavior of someone that has zero care or respect for you. At worst, it's the behavior of a psychopath.


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## Legend (Jun 25, 2013)

He's not ready for marriage and you're too controlling for a marriage to work.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *DMMD said*: We had our happy love days without any quarrels. We got engaged in May 2016. We had our first fight in June 2016. The reason was stupid and minor, but the way we both handled it was terrible. This was the first time he raised his voice and used curse words at me. It was 2 days before my birthday. I was upset that he didn’t listen to me or try to understand my viewpoint and tried avoiding discussing it, while I tried too many times to explain it different ways while he was not at all willing to listen.
> 
> ....But he had a different opinion, and instead of listening to mine, he resisted and closed down and didn’t even want to hear me out..


 Communication with this man is going to be hell.. he is a steam roller, then avoids.... he doesn't understand or have the patience to listen to you... this is what calms a woman.. feeling heard.. this will grow far worse as the little tiffs you see now... 



> I have to confess, I am sensitive to when he looks at other women. And he is a kind of guy who looks like his jaw drops when he sees an attractive woman. That bothers me. He explained, that he loves only me, and would never think about having sex with another woman. He just likes to look at pretty. He doesn’t look- he STARES. He says every man does that. I disagree. At least they don’t stare in that obvious manner. ....
> 
> It took a couple of days to talk it out and for me to feel good about this relationship again. Now, he tells me I have unreasonable jealousy. I may. I don’t deny that. I do not want to sit at a restaurant with a man who is following an attractive woman with his eyes while he is out on a date with me. If you see some legs that crossed your line of view, you don’t have to proceed to evaluate with your eyes and try to see what else is there. You have your fiancée’s legs.


NO... not all men are like this.. men who care about the feelings of their girlfriends & wives would never be this blatant out & about.. they would feel awful to act this, being ashamed of themselves.. not only is it "creepy" for him to stare at others, but terribly disrespectful to you ! 

This man has no sense of how to treat a woman, showing her she is his "everything", she is "enough", then he pushes it back on you. calling you jealous ! He has no sense of decency, is making excuses for his own rotten behavior, his self awareness is also shot! 



> I also asked how much he could contribute financially. He sorta said that he already gave me a ring, and it was his contribution.


 I can see money issues in the future.. he will feel -yours is yours.. his is His, and you won't be touching it.. this is fine -to an extent.. but if you have children.. you may be more dependent on him.. he does not sound like a man who cares to provide and be there, he estimates his share in any given thing.. 




> He said, “I can’t find peace from you even in the bathroom” and went in the shower. I was curled up in bed stewing. He came from the bathroom, and I didn’t immediately open my arms. He said something to the effect, is this how I’m going to be treated? ...
> 
> ....So he started loudly saying the following:*” I’m sick of this bull****. I will not be forced into doing what I don’t want to do. I’m not gonna jump when you say jump. You want this wedding. I don’t need you for me to be happy. We don’t have to get married. I know how to re-claim my free time. I now see that your husband is better off without you and you made him miserable”.* With tears chocking me I tried to explain how I felt....


 I stopped here.. you are not even married yet.. and he said THIS TO YOU... RUN... END THIS... now you know WHY his ex feels as she does... she knows all about his prior treatment.. I bet she lived in hell....this is not a good man.. You are here for a reason.. to work through this and realize.. this will be an AWFUL MISTAKE...

Listen to those who have been there .... the





















are waving on this one..


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## sunnygirl24 (Sep 16, 2016)

Dont marry him. Its easier to leave him if there are more complications without dealing with another divorce in the future. 

I learnt that no matter how much you invest in the wedding planning and stuffs it will not be as worthy as compared to your own & kids HAPPINESS. 

I have heard about my friend who has a hub who is constantly TIRED due to WORK and even a wanting simple hug from him is draining his energy and stuffs. 

This man is not worthy of you. Or anybody else. 

Its disgusting how he literally jaw drop stares at pretty woman. Wtf? Its considered cheating. 

God bless you and your kids, I hope you find somebody worthy of your love and treats u and the kids well. 



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Communication with this man is going to be hell.. he is a steam roller, then avoids.... he doesn't understand or have the patience to listen to you... this is what calms a woman.. feeling heard.. this will grow far worse as the little tiffs you see now...
> 
> NO... not all men are like this.. men who care about the feelings of their girlfriends & wives would never be this blatant out & about.. they would feel awful to act this, being ashamed of themselves.. not only is it "creepy" for him to stare at others, but terribly disrespectful to you !
> 
> ...


Nobody is "staring" at other women. Our first fight was because I ASKED if I could drop off a crappy lawn mower off at a 54 year old woman's ( coworker) house that she asked to borrow. Yes, the 15 year older woman was wanting to have a thing with me but it was not reciprocal in any way. I didn't drop it off, broke off all contact with her, which was only friendly. My fiancée admits to unreasonable jealousy. In all my years, another SO has never had a problem with me "staring". You are hearing a skewed view of things.

I yelled, slammed a couple of doors, and said some things I didn't mean. All of you people who are supposedly so emotionally superior are FOS.
If your relationships were as perfect as you act like, you wouldn't be wasting time here.
I did this one time in 600 days we've been dating. She pushed me in a corner and when I got so upset that my speech got a little slurred, she smiled and started laughing. Yes, I lost my temper.

My ex was an entitled, cheating, discontent. She has since remarried to a wealthy heir.
Her last text said her life was chaotic and full of irritation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

It doesn't really matter who is at fault here. You shouldn't get married if you have this kind of argument before you get married.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Nobody is "staring" at other women. Our first fight was because I ASKED if I could drop off a crappy lawn mower off at a 54 year old woman's ( coworker) house that she asked to borrow. Yes, the 15 year older woman was wanting to have a thing with me but it was not reciprocal in any way. I didn't drop it off, broke off all contact with her, which was only friendly. My fiancée admits to unreasonable jealousy. In all my years, another SO has never had a problem with me "staring". You are hearing a skewed view of things.
> 
> I yelled, slammed a couple of doors, and said some things I didn't mean. All of you people who are supposedly so emotionally superior are FOS.
> If your relationships were as perfect as you act like, you wouldn't be wasting time here.
> ...


I can't say you should get married or not. Frankly, it's probably none of my business.
I lose my temper just like you do and it almost cost me my marriage.
I come from Latin origin and grew up with screaming for no reason, all the time. I thought that's what people do. When I did this around my wife, she thought I was possessed.

IMO you either need to lose the anger or find someone who can handle it and give back 10 fold. Otherwise you're going to run into trouble.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ok, I get it now. OP is EV58's fiancee. :slap:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Evinrude58 said:


> Nobody is "staring" at other women. Our first fight was because I ASKED if I could drop off a crappy lawn mower off at a 54 year old woman's ( coworker) house that she asked to borrow. Yes, the 15 year older woman was wanting to have a thing with me but it was not reciprocal in any way. I didn't drop it off, broke off all contact with her, which was only friendly. My fiancée admits to unreasonable jealousy. In all my years, another SO has never had a problem with me "staring". You are hearing a skewed view of things.
> 
> I yelled, slammed a couple of doors, and said some things I didn't mean. All of you people who are supposedly so emotionally superior are FOS.
> If your relationships were as perfect as you act like, you wouldn't be wasting time here.
> ...


Wait.. I missed it....So YOU are the fiance @Evinrude58 ?? a poster who has over 2,000 posts HERE.. and this was her very 1st ? I missed that entirely...(I didn't read until the end either -just as far as that comment)...

Look.. you're right.. none of us are perfect.. and absolutely.. we can say some pretty nasty stuff in a moment.. but yeah.. good you jumped in here.. and I can understand you wanted to slam me for that comment about your EX -if she betrayed you like that. I would too! 

I've heard it said for every negative comment... we need to make up for it with 3 positives .. something like that.. There are different conflict styles..maybe you & her have *"Volatile"* (Erupting Passionate disputes/ arguments).. 

What you want to work out & make sure is.... both of you are not falling into the *"HOSTILE"*... you can read the differences here... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ead-4-types-5-1-ratio-marriage-conflicts.html

Look...even I have a volatile conflict style -when I get mad , I'm not one to just walk away & not say something - I have to "eat crow" afterwards many times for my wayward mouth.. so Yeah.. I get it.... (very few admitted to a Volatile style on this thread - but I did)..

Just saying.. If my daughter brought me this story, I'd have some sympathy for how hurtful some of this IS...

But just let me say.... I would question her on her own behavior too ...I surely can understand how even women can annoy the sh** out of a man.. and cause him to loose his temper.. 

Just give your side.... so you still want to marry then??


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Ok, I get it now. OP is EV58's fiancee. :slap:


I thought that was obvious after EV58's first post on this thread.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Due to the short time between your previous relationships it looks like you guys are doing the rebound thing with each other and got engaged in the honeymoon period of your relationship. Take a little time to get to know each other better and build a more solid relationship foundation before getting married. It is a lot easier to postpone a wedding and while you are really getting to know each other than to rush in and end up not being happy. I hope it works out for you guys.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This woman is all that and a bag of chips. But right now, she's not seeing anything but me hurting her.
I get it. What I did was way out of bounds.

Knowing how obvious to her that it is that I love her dearly, I don't see how she can't see that I had to have been in excruciating pain in order to act that way, and feeling the urge to hurt her emotionally as well. I will not be weak like this again. I'll just walk away like I tried to do.

She told me all kinds of things to hurt me, pushed me away and said she didn't want to touch me. That's what screwed up my head and set me up to lose it.....

Right now she's in Dillard's shopping while I waste time with nothing to do--- I took off work to take her to do some important business and it's done. I don't mind waiting, but do feel a little unappreciated. 

I don't know how to resolve this. I would never tell my wife I don't love her, even in severe anger; but will show her by saying awful things.
She will not say awful things, but will say she doesn't know if she loves me anymore, tell me she doesn't want to touch me, etc. 

I can't figure out a way to get to a point where I can let this go, and she can't either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

What I do not understand is why @DMMD is pushing for an event-type wedding when she knows very well that is not what @Evinrude58 wants. OP appears to think she is entitled to a fancy wedding because she did not have one the first time around. Sorry, but the fact that she did not get the past wedding she wanted is on *her*. It is unrealistic to expect a new partner to make up for “lost dreams”.

From what has been described the OP has been slowly making the wedding into a larger and more complicated event and pushing for acceptance of her plans. Unfortunately I think this is the main underlying issue for her. Have either of you tried to reach a compromise on this issue? What was the result of that conversation?

Evinrude58, yes you have your faults and issues but please tell me why you want to be with a woman who constantly pushes for her own way? Everything you (and she) have written points to that type of behavior on her part.

What is more important here, the details of the wedding or the relationship and family that will be formed? :scratchhead:


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This is Evinrude's fiancee? lol I didn't know that. 

OP, maybe you both should take some time, breathe a little...and just hang out as friends. No pressure. Stop fighting. Stop talking about the wedding, and see if in a month, you want to get married. That's what I'd do. I hope things get better.


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## no name (Aug 4, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> 10 minutes of rest was requested.
> 
> Not for physical rest, just to calm my nerves from dealing with 150 middle school kids, then solving 50 adult's problems, then coaching an undefeated softball team with 12 parents who each think their child is a superstar and wants more playing time, in a game that the other team was so terrible we played two innings in 75 minutes.
> 
> ...




I'm not taking sides. Use this as a learning curve, refrain from using the b**** word,regardless of having an argument, that needs to be controlled. It's such a disrespectful word. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## no name (Aug 4, 2016)

I think it's unfair to be taking sides here and rather remain on the fence. I can see both views. She was angry about the way he treated her and handled his feelings , rude things he said. Understandably they are hurtful and she has a right to feel angry. On the other side, He was angry because he felt badgered and told what to do. I can understand that an adult doesn't want to be treated like a child and told what to do and when to do it, sticking to your partners schedule, it would be irritating. He had trouble expressing how he felt and exploded, it's the way it was conveyed that may have bothered her more. In regards to your query , you guys have both have things to learn and need to stop blaming each other and be responsible for your own short comings. Admit it, apologise , forgive and then make a decision either part ways or continue , post pone the wedding to figure it all out. I hope that helps you both. I wish you luck on the journey. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Kind of a cheap shot on the OP's part by not disclosing her man was a member here AND changing her screen name.............


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## no name (Aug 4, 2016)

Betrayedone said:


> Kind of a cheap shot on the OP's part by not disclosing her man was a member here AND changing her screen name.............




I guess trying to get unbiased opinions ?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

This is really pretty simple. 
@DMMD and @Evinrude58 you two are not ready to marry! Take that COMPLETELY off the table. I don't care if you've invested some $$ into it, you were forcing it. Cut your losses and just remove the pressure of the wedding. 

Now, I get it--90% of the time you two get along like peas and carrots. But @DMMD, if you want to ever marry someone, you have to be mature enough to make a commitment to providing for their emotional needs, and at that moment, @Evinrude58 needed some "decompression" time and you added more pressure! He told you what he needed, so it wasn't like it was a secret. So before you even consider marrying ANYONE you need to learn how to sometimes back off and give the other person room to breathe -and- you need to learn how to make a REQUEST of your spouse, not a demand!! Home should be a HAVEN from the pressures of the world--not more pressures. 

And @Evinrude58, I don't care if she DID pressure you--some of the things you said to her were HORRID. If you ever want to marry someone, you have to be mature enough to make a commitment to providing for their emotional needs, and at that moment, @DMMD needed you to participate and be responsive to her, not to blow her off and ignore her! She told you what she needed, so it wasn't like it was a hint or you were clueless. All you had to do was tell her what you WERE willing to do, or tell her when you were willing to do her requests so you weren't blowing her off. She wanted to INCLUDE you in your own wedding!!! And seriously, dude, you NEED to go to anger management therapy. The things you said should NEVER come out of your mouth, no matter how she pushed you. You'd say that to me one time, and you'd never have the pleasure of my company again! 

So call off the wedding. If you want to try to keep this going, BOTH of you need to do some personal growth and GIVE to the other person (not focusing on taking). If you aren't willing to look at your own self and grow, then better to rip off the band-aid and end it now, then to get married and have a miserable marriage and have to divorce!


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude I have read some of your posts and I understand your side and why you are getting so defensive. 

Obviously there are two very different sides to this story but one thing is common throughout. 

You are verbally abusive and you don't seem to realize the damage that is done with all the name calling. You sort of skim over that part and justify it and shrug your shoulders and say nobody is perfect but that doesn't undo the damage.

It's also clear that you have no interest in this wedding whatsoever. You gave her a place and a date and dropped everything in her lap except giving her your credit card number for two wedding related expenses that you subsequently CANCELLED for reasons that are not clear. 

Your strong message is, you don't want the wedding which is of course also rejecting HER, while you sit there and write about how much you love her and want her. 

Even if you disregard everything I wrote above, it comes down to one plain fact, and it's clear as the sun over the beach where your wedding is planned. The two of you do not know how to communicate, and even though things are good much or most of the time as soon as there is ANY conflict, things break down into a shouting match, because you lose your temper, and she gets hysterical.

I know you think the relationship is great, but it's not. It's in really bad shape and these things don't just get better, they usually get a heck of a lot worse.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> This is really pretty simple.
> 
> @DMMD and @Evinrude58 you two are not ready to marry! Take that COMPLETELY off the table. I don't care if you've invested some $$ into it, you were forcing it. Cut your losses and just remove the pressure of the wedding.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, and have told her so. We have a great relationship more than even 90% of the time. We are both really stressed out and I think that has played a role. I don't know what we are going to do about the wedding. I love her and by the time we are three days apart on my week with my kids, I'm wanting to see her badly. 
I won't be saying anything like I said a week ago. I'm just going to step back and walk away. Tell her what I want, what I'm willing to give-// and just walk away until she's had time to get over her anger and think about it. I've just made everything worse by my weakness.
We are learning how to deal with one another. It's not been as easy as it was the first 17 months we were together. But I do want this good woman badly, and want our relationship to be healthy and functional. I'm also scheduling time with a counselor for the anger thing.
She still is very rigid and won't accept any responsibility at all. I think she will always be this way, and it's just something I have to learn to live with. She did tell me she loved me today, and that I had hurt her.
Just a work in progress, I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> We have a great relationship more than even 90% of the time.


You've been saying that all along. 

Do you know that most people get along most of the time?

What matters is when they don't get along and how they deal with each other during those rough times.

The two of you go to pieces. 

Until and unless you realize the affect your anger and verbal abuse have on her there is no fixing this, and it's good that you're considering therapy but that takes time. Until the therapy "kicks in" you need to figure out a way to keep your mouth shut.

It's like sticking a knife in someone's abdomen and as they bleed out in the street you say "Sorry I know I'm not perfect but I'm working on my issues".


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> We are learning how to deal with one another. It's not been as easy as it was the first 17 months we were together. But I do want this good woman badly, and want our relationship to be healthy and functional. I'm also scheduling time with a counselor for the anger thing.


Are "we"? I use the plural term "we" because I hear what you are acknowledging. I hear that you are seeing where you went wrong, and I hear you saying what you plan to do about it. Time will tell if you actually follow through but for now you can at least admit your part. DOES SHE? 

How are "we" learning to deal with one another? In what way is she learning to deal with you? What is she acknowledging? Does she see where she went wrong? What does she plan to do about it? Time will tell if she actually follows through but for now does she at least admit her part?

If YOU are only one learning to deal with their potential spouse, then it's not "we" ... it's YOU learning how to buckle under to her bad behavior. That would not be healthy nor lead to a happy marriage! 

I am VERY happy to hear you have booked time with a counselor "for the anger thing."  Good job jumping right on that, not making excuses, and getting down to business. I like that! 



> She still is very rigid and won't accept any responsibility at all. I think she will always be this way, and it's just something I have to learn to live with. She did tell me she loved me today, and that I had hurt her.


See--this is of concern. GREAT concern. If she is unwilling or unable to occasionally say, "Okay I see your point. I did go a little overboard. I could have chosen differently and was a little demanding..." then she may have a pride or ego problem, she may not be able to admit she was wrong, and she will likely defend her wrongdoing to rather than face herself when she does do something wrong. 

See, a mature person can behave badly, then look back and say "Yep, you're right I should not have said that or slammed that door. I had other choices and I made bad ones. I'm responsible." If she can not do that, it is a HUGE red-flag kind of issue! You can do it. You did it with your anger issues--didn't even fight anyone who pointed it out! You just admitted it, and got on the horn to get to counseling to work on yourself! She can not even face herself--and that is a gigantic danger sign. 

I seriously recommend at minimum holding off on the wedding and getting married until your anger is under control (which honestly, I think it will be once you get a bit of counseling), and until she is able to demonstrate that she can admit a fault and do something to change herself and be different.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Ok, I get it now. OP is EV58's fiancee. :slap:


Aha! Now it makes sense...I was wondering after reading his post...



tech-novelist said:


> I thought that was obvious after EV58's first post on this thread.


Clearly not, lol!

OP and Evinrude - you are not ready to get married. Having both been divorced previously you should recognise this.

EV - you are verbally abusive and that is very damaging. The scars cut deep and change who the other person is...you need to stop minimising it mate.

OP - you are far too controlling, you need to loosen up a little and cut a boy some slack.

At a minimum, you both need IC, then premarital counselling.


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## vel (Aug 27, 2016)

Please do cancel your wedding. A wedding is one day, nothing compared to a marriage. You both should know that...
There's no rush to get married, wedding or not. If you do become 'lovebirds' two weeks after cancelling, so be it! Great!

However I sincerely doubt your problems can be fixed in a short two weeks. There's a lot of growth you both need to do, which many people have already outlined in this thread.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Since he has not yet clarified, I will.
- I knew he was on this forum, but did not know his nick name until today. I knew he posted stuff about our big issue, and knew his story would be one sided. Now that I see what his nick is, I could have easily found him. But I don't have the time or desire to snoop around. Additionally, I made my post from a computer. We are away without a computer access, and I find the format on my phone difficult to read and navigate.
- I am not Altair. I don't have the time or desire to create email accounts, logins. Again, I am not a snoop-arounder. He called me Altair several times last week, I looked it upmost of curiosity, then he said, that someone created a new account and started being rude on the forum. Not me.
- Evinrude has offered to show me his post last week, but I declined. I see how this forum is and that the few stories that I have read are either one-sides or nasty. I do not want him to boil in this juice of "my wife was unfaithful" and re-live his pain trying to express his opinion on someone's situation.
- I told him right away when I registered and made my thread. He found it quickly and agrees that description of the matters was close to reality.
- We have looked at my thread posts together today. 
- The "horrible behavior" of mine that he is describing entails me being withdrawn and not feeling the same about our relationship. Me not being excited about the wedding. Not wanting to snuggle with the man who told me I am worse that his ex wife and he doesn't need me to be happy. There was no name calling coming from me, no curse words. Apparently, I did raise my voice some on Monday night- he reminded me. Not cursing, just yelling stuff like "you don't care about the wedding and you don't see it".
- Someone said that he clearly doesn't want a beach wedding. Initially when he expressed that he beach wedding is not exciting to him, I stopped talking about it. It was a brief suggestion on my part. There was no me nagging him about having a beach wedding. Comment that I am making it bigger than initially was is also incorrect. I planned for 4 couples from my side, 3 couples from his side. A dozen kids. In fact, initially, I looked at the beach house, then settled for a smaller condo. Did not do an all inclusive package, because that would bring me out of my set budget. DYI wedding is a lot of work crammed into a month. And, no offense to anyone, but I am paying for most of it and am only willing to do what I can afford.

Interesting that I am being labeled a controlling person. I am in control of my schedule, finances and interests. When you bring another person into your horizon, both have to bend their schedules, and so far we have successfully done it. On most things.

He is a wonderful man. Strong, reliable, caring, loving, affectionate. I disagree that he is not over his ex. It has been 2 + years for him and almost 3 years for me since the split up with the exes.

Great comment that most people get along well most of the time and that in what fashion people disagree is what matters. 

I love this guy. I wish I could get back to the excited state I was in 2 weeks ago. I don't want to do anything else to work towards it. I am not rebelling, the excitement is just not there anymore. He has offered to take over and do whatever needs to be done. Things are lined up. It's just a matter of finalizing a few things and mailing invitations. 

I am still thinking we may get married as planned. My friend will frown. My parents are neutral, they say, all people fight. They have been married for 39 years, they would know. What is concerning to them, is that if he acts like this before we get married, it will get worse after.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> We have a great relationship more than even 90% of the time.


Hiroshima was bustling and vibrant more than 90% of the time, until Little Boy came along.

*”You know what? Here comes the word. You are a btch!”* <-----------that was your Little Boy. You asked her about her deal breakers, she told you, and you used it to hurt her. 

You two are not emotionally mature enough for a lasting marriage. It's not about those butterfly feelings; it's about mutual respect; it's about patience and understanding; it's about being humble enough to admit when you're wrong (on both sides). If your fiance can't admit when she's wrong, I only see more confrontations and drama in the marriage.

Love is patient, love is kind, love does not keep record of any wrongs...love is not easily angered, it does not dishonor others...


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

*"Someone said that he clearly doesn't want a beach wedding. Initially when he expressed that he beach wedding is not exciting to him, I stopped talking about it. It was a brief suggestion on my part. There was no me nagging him about having a beach wedding. Comment that I am making it bigger than initially was is also incorrect. I planned for 4 couples from my side, 3 couples from his side. A dozen kids. In fact, initially, I looked at the beach house, then settled for a smaller condo."*

You are glossing over the fact that your fiancé clearly stated that he wanted a simple civil ceremony. What you are describing above is clearly a much more elaborate wedding. How did _*that *_happen?

The bottom line is that if you cannot state the truth of the problem without embellishment, minimizing or omitting facts then no one on TAM (or anywhere else) can help you. That applies to both of you, of course.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I love this woman and the only reason I am not into the beach wedding as much as she is, is that as she said--- I'm not paying for it. I am not into shopping for things I can't afford. I asked HER to think about a beach wedding in November because I knew she wanted that, and my 2 best friends had told me they would enjoy bringing their wives.
So I don't have a problem with it, I think we will have fun. I don't have a problem at all with us having my future motherinlaw and all our 5 kids in the condo with us.

I do have a little trouble with her not seeing my perspective on things. She doesn't see that telling me she doesn't know if she loves me is the same as saying she doesn't. She doesn't see that refusing to lay down and talk and telling me she doesn't want the wedding, doesn't want to touch me, and smiling and laughing at me when I'm upset--- could have contributed to me losing my temper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, OP, it's probably a good idea to cancel the wedding for now. Maybe the two of you will work out your differences and decide to marry another time but this Nov. -- little more than a month away -- isn't really the time. Too much lingering resentment to carry into marriage right now. Quite a bit of work needs to be done in counseling before the two of you marry or you'll end up divorced again. Whatever you've paid so far for the wedding is cheaper than a divorce would be. Wait.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't know why it doesn't seem to be an option to compromise... get married by a JoP, with maybe a few VERY close family members, then do a party at a later date to celebrate. It's what my husband and I did.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Neither you or him are at a stage in your lives to be, and are really nowhere close to being committed marriage material!

For both of your sakes, please move on!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

DMMD said:


> My parents are neutral, they say, all people fight. They have been married for 39 years, they would know. *What is concerning to them, is that if he acts like this before we get married, it will get worse after.*


Please listen to your parents, DMMD.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well, you both brought the issue out in the open. You BOTH have communication issues. You can make this work if you want to.

Get married.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

To me, a wedding is a festive and memorable event. I think, 7 couples + kids at the beach is small, private and special. We will get to see close out of town friends and share this time with them.
I want a wedding, and find nothing wrong with that. Red Sonya, so why shouldn't we consider what I want? Satya, we have discussed JoP, but ultimately rejected that option.

I am looking to get back to where we were two weeks ago. I want the feelings back the way they were. I want the fire in me to complete the planning. I want to work through the issues we have, look past the incident, focus on the good and be happy.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

It's not just "an incident" that you need to get past.

The incident is a symptom of a much greater problem, it's not "the" problem.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's totally understandable that you want to get back to the way things were -- I'm sure he does too -- but without help for both of you it's very possible you won't get there.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Openminded said:


> It's totally understandable that you want to get back to the way things were -- I'm sure he does too -- but without help for both of you it's very possible you won't get there.


Get back to where? They are still in the same place. They just did not know it. Now their eyes are opened.

OP,

I posted this in EV's thread, but Justice of the Peace wedding is like going to the DMV for a drivers license. Do the small beach wedding. Have a budget, but expect to exceed it by 10-20% once everything is done. Last minute costs will happen. Accept it and don't let it stress you. Enjoy.

Post a wedding pic here when you get back.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Get back to where? They are still in the same place. They just did not know it. Now their eyes are opened.
> 
> OP,
> 
> ...


She's the one who said she wanted to get back to the way things were. 

I think they need professional help to work on their issues. Because they both have them and those issues are unlikely to just go away. Sure, they can rug-sweep their issues but then they'll just both be back here at some point -- wondering where it all went wrong.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

We are on the road and all we have been taking about is discussing this.
He is apologetic about his outburst, but is also trying to fault me and have me acknowledge what I did wrong.
From my viewpoint, I did right to sit my man down after work, give him dinner, then straightforwardly explain that I'd like a couple of easy things done in the next 15 minutes, as I'm tired and go to bed. He was not greeted at the door with a honey do list. And in my mind the time I took to clean the dishes, shower and wish good night to my children should have been the 10-15 minutes of unwinding that he needed. If he came out of the shower and stated he was ready to dance and look at wedding condos, I wouldn't have had time or desire to get on with nagging annoyance "your-phone-is-more-important-than-your-wedding".
Meanwhile, I have acknowledged my fault at yesterday's incident where I failed to communicate with him while getting sucked into Dillards. After a brief pout about him rescuing me from the evil sale.

How do I explain to him, that at this time I am not holding a grudge? I am hurt and would love to get back to our feelings, and I am not in an active rebellion. Also, to me it's important to have the argument sorted out and have a general agreement about what has actually taken place ant to NOT rag sweep?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He obviously feels he's not the only one at fault so I doubt he's just going to let all that drop. 

You're going to have to admit your part in it -- and apologize -- if you want things to progress.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why can't you both just drop it and move forward? This is probably not going to be the worst thing you both ever face, if you both carry on like this for days over a small argument, what might it be like when the problems you face are much harder than this one?


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

I feel that dropping it will equate to rug-sweeping. I think we need to get to the bottom of it.
I have a hard time seeing where I was wrong. One thing I could have done differently is to not nag when he returned to the bedroom. But I again stated that this is a good time to dance or look at the wedding condos, and he declined. So if I agreed for my needs to be ignored and assistance with the wedding planning to not be offered, I could have just gone to bed like I needed to.
I do not see what I have done wrong.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think you're actually looking for someone to validate your position -- not to help you decide whether to cancel the wedding or not because cancelling is really not what you want to do. 

What you appear to want is for him to take the entire responsibility but he doesn't see it that way. He doesn't feel (I'm guessing) that your needs should trump his. If you could read his thread in the Private forum you'd get a better idea of how he feels. I doubt he's going to ever accept you don't share in this.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Problem: 

The OP has very few faults. Compared to most people, and people observing her in everyday life would think she is a person that is as close to perfection as possible. 
This status causes her to be very, very unwilling to admit faults. There really are few to admit.

Her kids wanted to stop for snacks on a straight highway with zero traffic. I suggested unbuckling, grabbing the box of cookies right behind her, and eating those since we were so close. They all nearly arrested me for making such a suggestion as unbuckling for 10 seconds...

It's a different world I'm entering, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

And one you're willingly entering into....... 

To the OP...you can't always be right. I think what Evinrude did was wrong, but you seem to be really into hashing things out for weeks. Over seemingly minor things. My advice would be to stop doing that, embrace the man you love, and move forward. You both love each other, but if you just always want to emerge the winner of an argument, that is where you should reflect.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Problem:
> 
> The OP has very few faults. Compared to most people, and people observing her in everyday life would think she is a person that is as close to perfection as possible.
> This status causes her to be very, very unwilling to admit faults. There really are few to admit.
> ...


Then my advice to you is learn to accept her the way she is because she's probably not going to change.

It will be up to you.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

DMMD said:


> I do not see what I have done wrong.


What you are doing wrong is you fail to realize he does not want to have anything to do with the wedding, he doesn't want to learn to dance, and he's unwilling or unable to compromise on this. He has serious anger management issues which he is only now beginning to acknowledge, and those anger issues may or may not be effectively dealt with but even under the most ideal circumstances it will take years. 

So you either accept that's the way he is, understand you're not going to change him and it's highly unlikely he'll ever change on his own, or you end the relationship and find a guy who is more interested in these types of things. 

Perhaps your biggest mistake is making this about "right and wrong" when it's really about two people who obviously care about one another but significantly underestimate their incompatibilities.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

DMMD said:


> We are on the road and all we have been taking about is discussing this.
> He is apologetic about his outburst, but is also trying to fault me and have me acknowledge what I did wrong.
> From my viewpoint, I did right to sit my man down after work, give him dinner, then straightforwardly explain that I'd like a couple of easy things done in the next 15 minutes, as I'm tired and go to bed. He was not greeted at the door with a honey do list. And in my mind the time I took to clean the dishes, shower and wish good night to my children should have been the 10-15 minutes of unwinding that he needed. If he came out of the shower and stated he was ready to dance and look at wedding condos, I wouldn't have had time or desire to get on with nagging annoyance "your-phone-is-more-important-than-your-wedding".


*You truly see nothing wrong with your behavior here?*

1. You wanted certain things done.
2. You wanted them done within a specific time frame.
3. You dictated how much time he should need to "unwind".

*The above is selfish, entitled behavior.*

4. You actually stated that if he had done what you wanted, when you wanted it that you would not have had to get annoyed or to nag him.

*The above is blaming him for your bad behavior and the entire situation.*

In simpler terms your entire quoted post states that "I want what I want, when I want it and, if I don't get it I become angry, nag, lecture and blame others in order to get what I want".

What about compromise, negotiating when needs conflict and, having compassion and empathy for your partner? These are the skills used by an adult in these types of situations. Blame is useless here, we all have faults. But you must face your part in this so that you can improve your behavior and the relationship in the future. If either of you ignore your part in this the behavior will only repeat and escalate.

I am talking to *you *here and not Evinrude58 because he knows what he did wrong during this incident and has acknowledged.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Respectfully disagree, Red Sonya.
In multiple situations I have acknowledged faults. ( one recent example was provided).
Diedre, this is the thing: I am not holding on to anger. We seem to be at peace, we hug, and kiss and hold hands. I have residual deep hurt over how the minor issue was handled. I suspect, he was stressed and mad at baseline when he arrived last Monday. And my simple requests just came at a bad time. 

Caruso, I believe I have handled a lot of his issues over the ex, and (humbly) think that I have helped him get over his situation. I see his good traits, appreciate them, love him, ready to embrace his children as part of family. He used to tell me I "dampen" him and help his anger dissipate. I think counceling will help. I hope so.

Openminded, I actually am looking for both, similar and opposing views. Looking what pros and cons people see in this. 

Thanks, y'all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

DMMD said:


> Looking what pros and cons people see in this.


Your fiancee posted on his other thread that you have told him you're not sure that you love him.

That being the case why are you pushing so hard for this wedding?

Not all that good an idea to marry someone you might not be in love with.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Humility isn't a compromise... it's an opportunity for self-reflection of one's ability to recognize we are not as important as others see us or we see ourselves. When we take ourselves too seriously these arguments will always come up and often show us a snapshot of ourselves behaving poorly in the poorest light.

The reality is, that when this happens we reject wanting to see ourselves as such when we have all the the power to shine the light on ourselves and being humble provides the freedom to give us the best clarity of how to be a better, more compassionate and empathetic partner.

Blaming someone else is easy... at some point of every relationship, and at times of stress it can happen often, we will say or do something that will hurt those close to us. If one will take the time to look in the mirror, if one cannot acknowledge that we have the ability to hurt, then we lose self in entitlement that is artificially created by our own pride.

When you begin tallying faults, or lack of, like a scorecard in a relationship, you have already begun to diminish the value of the love and respect you profess for each other.

Look inward... if you look at each argument with an opening phrase to self "this happened because I..." you may be surprised how much you learn about yourself first. With that knowledge, you will truly reward others with mindful behavior deserving of each of you...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

"Caruso, I believe I have handled a lot of his issues over the ex, and (humbly) think that I have helped him get over his situation. I see his good traits, appreciate them, love him, ready to embrace his children as part of family. He used to tell me I "dampen" him and help his anger dissipate. I think counceling will help. I hope so."

She has helped me immensely to heal from my divorce. Has been very patient. I am no longer affected by my ex. She's no longer important in any way to me. I can't timber the last time I wasted serious thought on her.

My fiancée can't see how she did anything wrong. But I will say she didn't show any empathy to me that night. She had an agenda that night. It was not an unreasonable one.

And this is not like her. Normally she is supportive and patient. I do feel I let her down that night. But she showed little care for my problems. Again, that's different from usual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This thread has gone on long enough.......I believe the op wants to wear the pants in the relationship and that's just not gonna fly. Evinrude.....I would run fast and hard from this woman because you are in for a lifetime of control issues. This is a fundamental flaw in this relationship and no amount of other positives can mask this problem.........


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/350106-trouble-w-gf-19.html#post16597298

@DMMD, 

Let me quote what I wrote to your fiance: 



> @Evinrude58,
> 
> As I mentioned before I don't believe you two are ready to be married and here's why:
> 
> ...


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

caruso said:


> Your fiancee posted on his other thread that you have told him you're not sure that you love him.
> 
> That being the case why are you pushing so hard for this wedding?
> 
> Not all that good an idea to marry someone you might not be in love with.


Not sure that I love him?
After the evening when he told me he doesn't need me to be happy, we don't have to get married, that he knows how to re-claim his free time, that my ex is better off without me- all while I was speechless. Right after, in search of security, he wanted to snuggle and wanted me to tell him that I love him. I couldn't. I said, I don't know at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

It HAS gone long enough.
Y'all just were not there when this happened. Had he told me he is not interested in this wedding, I would have gone no further. He lead me on thinking he was as excited as I was about it while failing to contribute any amount of time or attention to how I was doing the planning. I guess that should have shown to me that he is not into it. Like I said, I suggested he picks another location or way to do it (other than JoP), but he remained passive. He cancelled his deposits before our invitations were finalized, while I was working on those invitations without the thought that the wedding would be postponed (called off, cancelled, however you want to call it), and I proceeded to pay for those. Even when he told me he cancelled the deposits, I didn't call the print place to cancel invitations. This tells you who wanted to cancel the wedding. He was protecting himself financially, he said.

If I had the message registered in my head, that this man doesn't want it, he is not interested, do y'all think I'd be suggesting we look at condos and practice dance? No, I would have proceeded listening to the softball story he had to tell and would empathize with his stress dealing with children at work.
How is it wrong of me to have an agenda, an outline, a plan of a wedding that I have been planning for both of us? How is it wrong to present it to a person who should be as involved as I am in this? One may say, the timing was wrong. I have emailed these things to him to be looked at at his own time. He ignored them. 

I do not want to "wear pants" in the house. I do it now. In a relationship/marriage there should be a partnership with man being the head of the household. "Love, honor and obey" for me is turned into "Love, honor and negotiate"- one of my unfinished cross-stitch projects.

As far as being considerate, I have been in big and small things.
My hair was too blond to his liking, it is now less blond. I have grown it out and got rid of my bangs at his request. He doesn't like bright nail polish, I have switched to natural and pale pink. He likes dark wood, so most of my light coloured wood furniture is slowly going out and is replaced by darker wood (I don't dislike it, but it is an additional expense to replace furniture. Plus old but nice stuff is from my prior marriage, and I am not opposed to getting something else). The house hunting was done with ER in mind, space and access for boats/workshop etc. As far as communication, there is never a derogatory comment or a painful word. We are both pretty direct in our communication, and if something comes out not sweet enough, we clarify immediately what we meant. 

I am not a Buddhist, but there is plenty of stuff in the Bible about selflessness and forgiving.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Philippians 2:3-4
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

I am not a housewife. I have also worked that day, took care of my children and made dinner. I was ready for early bedtime, and requested, not demanded, the fiance's input on the wedding that was being planned for both of us.

One may say this is to a point of beating the dead horse, but it is not to me. If it just went up to "we can't look at wedding stuff and dance as you have suggested because I'm not in the right mood, let's do it tomorrow", it would have just been an unpleasant evening with mismatched expectations. But offensive aggressive language, blaming me for having temper, saying hurtful things over and over again even after sleeping on the situation is not right. 

I don't have an access to ER's thread. I have no idea what is going on in that side.

I don't even know where I'm going with this now. My 8 o'clock no-showed, so I had some time to elaborate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

DMMD said:


> Had he told me he is not interested in this wedding, I would have gone no further. He lead me on thinking he was as excited as I was about it while failing to contribute any amount of time or attention to how I was doing the planning. I guess that should have shown to me that he is not into it.


His disinterest is as clear as day. You've been wearing blinders but it appears they have come off.



DMMD said:


> He cancelled his deposits before our invitations were finalized, while I was working on those invitations without the thought that the wedding would be postponed (called off, cancelled, however you want to call it), and I proceeded to pay for those. Even when he told me he cancelled the deposits, I didn't call the print place to cancel invitations. This tells you who wanted to cancel the wedding. He was protecting himself financially, he said.


Well if it wasn't clear as day before, it's gotta be now. Right?



DMMD said:


> If I had the message registered in my head, that this man doesn't want it, he is not interested, do y'all think I'd be suggesting we look at condos and practice dance? No, I would have proceeded listening to the softball story he had to tell and would empathize with his stress dealing with children at work.


So is that what you're going to do now? Forget about the wedding because it's clear as day he doesn't want it and now you realize that? If not, why not?



DMMD said:


> How is it wrong of me to have an agenda, an outline, a plan of a wedding that I have been planning for both of us? How is it wrong to present it to a person who should be as involved as I am in this?


Nothing to do with right or wrong. Everything to do with the two of you wanting different things and being unable to reach a common ground.



DMMD said:


> One may say, the timing was wrong. I have emailed these things to him to be looked at at his own time. He ignored them.


One may say he has no interest in the wedding at all. One may say that timing has nothing do with it at all unless he someday changes his mind. You going to wait around for that possibility?



DMMD said:


> "Love, honor and obey" for me is turned into "Love, honor and negotiate"


A relationship is about compromise and selflessness, not about negotiation. Safe that for the divorce.



DMMD said:


> As far as communication, *there is never a derogatory comment or a painful word*. We are both pretty direct in our communication, and if something comes out not sweet enough, we clarify immediately what we meant.


Evinrude has posted multiple times about the verbal abuse he has dished out at you. He's gone so far to say he's called you a B***H on numerous occasions and he has acknowledged to some degree that he needs to work on this.

Now you say it never happens. Something just doesn't add up.



DMMD said:


> * But offensive aggressive language, blaming me for having temper, saying hurtful things over and over again even after sleeping on the situation is not right.*


So which is it? Never a derogatory comment or painful word, or offensive aggressive language?



DMMD said:


> I was ready for early bedtime, and requested, not demanded, the fiance's input on the wedding that was being planned for both of us.


I think we got that. Apparently your fiancee felt pressured at how you went about requesting and not demanding his time that particular evening. We are not the ones that need convincing, and trying to change his mind is a pointless endeavor. I can already see the two of you in counseling, giving both your sides to the therapist and waiting to be told you're both right and the other is wrong. 




DMMD said:


> I don't have an access to ER's thread. I have no idea what is going on in that side.


Here's an idea. Ask him for his password and freaking READ it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I haven't looked at the other thread either and have chosen not to.

The perspective I shared was share for you both, not just one, but I do know it's far easier to quote scripture than to live it, and more importantly, feel it.

I still hear a hardened and angry heart over this... whether you have a right to feel it doesn't take away the simplicity that it is not serving you well, please consider that as you work through the disappointment and hurt you have both experienced.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Problem:
> 
> The OP has very few faults. Compared to most people, and people observing her in everyday life would think she is a person that is as close to perfection as possible.
> This status causes her to be very, very unwilling to admit faults. There really are few to admit.
> ...


I will tell you this...

Based on how I have seen things go in my own past, when I read the OP, one big thought in the very front of my mind was "Why doesn't she just back off and give him a few minutes to himself." So in her own words, with her own spin, her own minimizing, glossing, with no input from you, I was able to feel exactly as you did.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Problem:
> 
> The OP has very few faults. Compared to most people, and people observing her in everyday life would think she is a person that is as close to perfection as possible.
> This status causes her to be very, very unwilling to admit faults. There really are few to admit.
> ...


I am clear that safety is first. My children are always restrained in the car. It's non-negotiable. If we want a cookie, we find a parking lot, stop, go to the back of the car and get a cookie. An adult should not make a suggestion to unbuckle a seat belt while on a highway. 
Also, for me there is no texting and driving. And if you are in a habit of doing that, do not do it with my children in the car- that's what I ask. You make your own choice as far as why you do when u are alone. (That doesn't help change behavior).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Samy, he got dinner, 10 minutes on his own while I was in the shower and additional 20 minutes locked up in the BR. He received and claimed what he asked for.

Buddhist, agree with you, and I don't usually quote scripture. Hardened heart. Hardened by anger and hostility exhibited by a person who was trusted.

Caruso, ER offered to "read" his thread to me. Apparently, he is trying to be selective to not get my feelings hurt. 
Never unkind word from me. He can't even tell me how I was "ballistic". The "terrible temper" is me not wanting more to snuggle and tell him I love him immediately after he tells me we don't have to get married and my ex is better off without me. That I stay withdrawn (not verbal and not verbally abusive) in a quarrel. 

Figuratively, this is what went on:
"- you are ugly (no response from me)
- yo momma is ugly ( no response from me)
- slap ( I am not fighting)
- slap, slap- what is it going to take for you to hit me back?"
Again, this is not a real thing- this is the figurative description of the verbal attack that happened ... 2 weeks ago.
I did not respond in a dysfunctional way, did not tell back, I stepped back and am still in a shell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Problem:
> 
> The OP has very few faults. Compared to most people, and people observing her in everyday life would think she is a person that is as close to perfection as possible.
> This status causes her to be very, very unwilling to admit faults. There really are few to admit.
> ...


Cut the crap EV. I am sure OP is great, but she has as many faults as the average person. BTW, don't you think her unwillingness to admit fault is one of her FAULTS??? :scratchhead: Putting her on this pedestal will kill your marriage. 

If you cannot live with someone that won't ever apologize or accept blame, then don't marry her. (My wife is very very resistant to every apologizing, even when disastrously wrong.) In some of your posts you seen insistent on her acknowledging she was wrong for her part in the "10-minute" incident. Willingness to admit fault seems like it is very important to you. Does OP meet your list of must-haves?

And you don't unbuckle kids. EVER. A tire can blow within 0.5 seconds and the kids won't survive. You can do it, but not a good idea. You could die too. Don't you think that it is a GOOD thing they don't want you hurt? Had a friend. Family with kids in SUV and tire blew out. Car flip. She (the mom) was paralyzed from neck down. Died a few years later at young age.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree with this, and have told her so. We have a great relationship more than even 90% of the time. We are both really stressed out and I think that has played a role. I don't know what we are going to do about the wedding. * I love her and by the time we are three days apart on my week with my kids, I'm wanting to see her badly.
> *I won't be saying anything like I said a week ago. I'm just going to step back and walk away. Tell her what I want, what I'm willing to give-// and just walk away until she's had time to get over her anger and think about it. I've just made everything worse by my weakness.
> We are learning how to deal with one another. It's not been as easy as it was the first 17 months we were together. But I do want this good woman badly, and want our relationship to be healthy and functional. I'm also scheduling time with a counselor for the anger thing.
> She still is very rigid and won't accept any responsibility at all. I think she will always be this way, and it's just something I have to learn to live with. She did tell me she loved me today, and that I had hurt her.
> ...


Ok so WHY are you apart when you have your kids?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The two accounts of the incident seem different. He says he just wanted 10 minutes to unwind and she refused to accept that. She says he had dinner, 10 minutes while she was in the shower, and then an additional 20 minutes before he went into the shower.

Which version actually happened?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

DMMD said:


> *I don't have an access to ER's thread. I have no idea what is going on in that side.
> 
> *I don't even know where I'm going with this now. My 8 o'clock no-showed, so I had some time to elaborate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course you have access to his thread...his several threads...just click on his user name in YOUR thread and it takes you to his profile.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

DMMD said:


> I don't have an access to ER's thread. I have no idea what is going on in that side.


Yes you do. Same access as everyone else.

You can make 20 more posts and get access. Go to the social forum and post in other threads for 10 minutes. That will get you to 30 posts quickly. 

Or pay $4.99 to become a Forum Supporter. That gives you instant access.

Or ask EV to show you the thread. 

Lots of options. No excuses.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Cut the crap EV. I am sure OP is great, but she has as many faults as the average person. BTW, don't you think her unwillingness to admit fault is one of her FAULTS??? :scratchhead: Putting her on this pedestal will kill your marriage.
> 
> If you cannot live with someone that won't ever apologize or accept blame, then don't marry her. (My wife is very very resistant to every apologizing, even when disastrously wrong.) In some of your posts you seen insistent on her acknowledging she was wrong for her part in the "10-minute" incident. Willingness to admit fault seems like it is very important to you. Does OP meet your list of must-haves?
> 
> And you don't unbuckle kids. EVER. A tire can blow within 0.5 seconds and the kids won't survive. You can do it, but not a good idea. You could die too. Don't you think that it is a GOOD thing they don't want you hurt? Had a friend. Family with kids in SUV and tire blew out. Car flip. She (the mom) was paralyzed from neck down. Died a few years later at young age.


One could also fall victim to a meteorite, a bolt of lightning, a drunk driver, an anurism, a heart attack, and any number of things. Does one not let their kids drive with their grandparents because they might have a heart attack or stroke while driving? Does one stay home and not travel because there could be a drunk driver on the road? My point is that the risk is extremely low that at that instance, an accident could happen on a straight road in zero traffic. Safety is one thing, unreasonable fear of an accident is another.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I'm of the opinion that when a couple starts fighting over seemingly meaningless things (not wearing seat belts, not looking at wedding arrangements when asked, etc) that there is more under the surface that is the real problem. Not sure why you both are getting married, to be honest. You sound like this is more of a business venture, where you're blending families and bank accounts trying to be this power couple, than a true mutually respectful love union. Just my observation, fwiw.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

@DMMD @Evinrude58, if you two are able to work things out, how will you deal with the total disconnect re: disciplining your children? You guys are on two totally different pages when it comes to childrearing.

Also, forgive me if this has been discussed, but have you done a 'trial run' co-habitating together with all of the kids for any period of time? A week, a month, etc.?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> blueinbr said:
> 
> 
> > Cut the crap EV. I am sure OP is great, but she has as many faults as the average person. BTW, don't you think her unwillingness to admit fault is one of her FAULTS???
> ...


It's unreasonable to you. Not to her. Not to all others, either.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

DMMD said:


> I am clear that safety is first. My children are always restrained in the car. It's non-negotiable. If we want a cookie, we find a parking lot, stop, go to the back of the car and get a cookie. An adult should not make a suggestion to unbuckle a seat belt while on a highway.
> Also, for me there is no texting and driving. And if you are in a habit of doing that, do not do it with my children in the car- that's what I ask. You make your own choice as far as why you do when u are alone. (That doesn't help change behavior).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @Evinrude58 I think what you're missing is that it's a pretty good bet that @DMMD has taught her children this rule. And she's setting an example for them. It don't think it's appropriate for you to come in and try to change that, however insignificant or silly you feel that rule may be.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Does one not let their kids drive with their grandparents because they might have a heart attack or stroke while driving?


Yes. We don't let my dad drive because risk of stoke and other issues. So Yes. 

Seat belts for kids are legally required in my state. 

I have worked in a manufacturing environment (chemical plant) and have seen injuries due to 10-second corner cuts. You don't think it will happen to you. Well it happens to someone. You might be that someone. 

BTW, your view on mitigating risk is interesting. By that reasoning it is ok to cheat as long as you weigh the odds on getting caught.

ETA: You seem to get caught up on trivial issues. So your fiancee is more cautious and safety thinking than you. Big deal. Not something to sweat over. Are you bothered that everyone agreed with her? That she is right again? Is it your ego? Or does this factor into parenting styles and you are worried about the difference between you and her?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> @Evinrude58 I think what you're missing is that it's a pretty good bet that @DMMD has taught her children this rule. And she's setting an example for them. It don't think it's appropriate for you to come in and try to change that, however insignificant or silly you feel that rule may be.


I agree with this and have told her that I won't try to change that rule, and it will be observed anytime the kids are with me.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> One could also fall victim to a meteorite, a bolt of lightning, a drunk driver, an anurism, a heart attack, and any number of things. Does one not let their kids drive with their grandparents because they might have a heart attack or stroke while driving? Does one stay home and not travel because there could be a drunk driver on the road? My point is that the risk is extremely low that at that instance, an accident could happen on a straight road in zero traffic. Safety is one thing, unreasonable fear of an accident is another.


You're being unreasonable in making light of her legitimate safety concerns.

What's worse is that you don't even realize it.

What's even worse is that you are rigid, inflexible and of the opinion that if someone disagrees with you, they're wrong and you will not consider changing your stance to accommodate them.

Doesn't mean you're being unreasonable about anything else, but there's no doubt you and your fiancee have very differing opinions and no way to resolve the inevitable conflicts when they arise. Right now it's the wedding planning or how you spend your time together or how often you practice the waltz. Tomorrow will be something else.



Evinrude58 said:


> I agree with this and have told her that I won't try to change that rule, and it will be observed anytime the kids are with me.


You agree to follow her rules while making it clear that you think they're ridiculous.

How do you think that makes her feel?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I've tried to show her my thread many times, btw. Each time I try to show it to her, she says she doesn't have time or backs off and says she doesn't want to read it.
That is the absolute truth.

Also, I do want to marry her. Do I have to have a fancy wedding that I can't afford? No.
Do I want her to be happy and have the wedding of her dreams? YES, absolutely.

Did I put down two deposits myself? Yes, I did.

Have I done some research on it myself? Yes. Does it compare to the amount of work she has done? NO.
Is she resentful for having to plan the DREAM WEDDING THAT SHE WANTS????? YES. Why is she resentful? She's the one that wants it, she knows exactly what she wants, and she is the one that's paying for it. I don't get it. Am I into wedding planning? NOPE. Do I need a fancy wedding? NOPE. Do I want to go on with something that's already causing anger and resentment because she doesn't like doing all the work to organize it? NOPE.
But it makes no difference, she has cancelled the wedding. I'm glad. It was just leading to hard feelings. 

Do I feel that she kind of wants a wedding more than she wants a husband? I don't know, it seems like that to me right now. I think it's more important to get married so we can start building a life together. I have told her multiple times that I want her as my wife, not a fancy wedding show.

I cancelled my deposits after she told me:
1) she doesn't know if she loves me
2) she didn't want the wedding anymore
3) she can't get her nonrefundable deposits back, and if it comes to it, she thought we should share the costs of those deposits together.

And she wants me to take on the cost of these deposits, knowing that I didn't need a fancy wedding and didn't have the money to pay for it. I'm still paying for the fancy ring that had to be 2 carats. Would she have accepted a smaller, more conservative ring? Yes. Did I want her to have what she wanted? YES, because I love her. Did I want her to have a nice wedding? YEs, because I love her.

Is the fancy wedding important to me? Yes, only because it is to her, and again, I love her. Would I enjoy it? Yes. 

She has her pride wounded by the fact that I've called her bad names and "scarred her". Ok. Well if she can't forgive me, I understand. Apparently she can't because I've done everything possible to tell her and show her how sorry I am. It's been two weeks. If she needs longer, so be it. But I can't change the past. 

She says she did nothing but sit quietly and I told her a bunch of hooey and said she was worse than my ex. 
Let me tell you, she did ANYTHING BUT sit quietly. She berated me for about 30 minutes before I gave up making up with her over this and got angry and told her to stop or I would just leave, which I did because she wouldn't stop but kept on. That's the truth, whether she can accept it or not.

Anyone can see that she is still filled with anger about this. And that is her worst quality--- hanging on to anger.
I have called her names 1 time in our nearly 2 years, which was 2 weeks ago. I've cursed at her on 2 occasions. I'm not some monster that has abused her constantly. 

What has she done? Kept arguing over nothing, kept holding on to anger, told me she doesn't love me, doesn't want to touch me, doesn't want to marry me, doesn't want to snuggle, etc. etc. etc. All over the fact that I wanted 10 minutes to rest, literally ten minutes, and didn't bow to her wishes and get straight to her agenda.

I care if she's tired, needs a few minutes to wind down, needs this and that. 

IF she can say that I DON'T CARE ABOUT HER NEEDS, I'd love to hear it. If she can say that I don't do everything I can for her on a daily basis, I'd like to hear it.
IF it's so bad that I'm not a good wedding planner and uninterested in the details of sleeping arrangements and decor on a hotel room----- I stand GUILTY AS CHARGED.
However, I would have done ALL OF THIS, had I been approached in a non-demanding, non aggressive manner.

Let me make this clear. I am not to be ordered around to do a darn thing. And I had received marching orders, whether she is able to comprehend it or not.

She's not letting go of her anger. So I feel certain that I'm going to receive marching orders to get out of her life as well.
Somethings can't be resolved. But they can be let go. She doesn't want to.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> @DMMD @Evinrude58, if you two are able to work things out, how will you deal with the total disconnect re: disciplining your children? You guys are on two totally different pages when it comes to childrearing.
> 
> Also, forgive me if this has been discussed, but have you done a 'trial run' co-habitating together with all of the kids for any period of time? A week, a month, etc.?


Yes, THIS. This has been forefront in my mind. He has stated on more than one occasion that he does not agree with how she parents her children, and does not care for the way that she treats HIS children. This issue alone is enough to not marry, its HUGE and it will not ever go away.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

caruso said:


> You're being unreasonable in making light of her legitimate safety concerns.
> 
> What's worse is that you don't even realize it.
> 
> ...


I would think that it would let her know that I respect her enough to follow her rules she's set with her kids in spite of the fact that to me, they're unreasonable. What more do you want?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Livvie said:


> The two accounts of the incident seem different. He says he just wanted 10 minutes to unwind and she refused to accept that. She says he had dinner, 10 minutes while she was in the shower, and then an additional 20 minutes before he went into the shower.
> 
> Which version actually happened?


There is his side, her side and then there is the truth.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The ten minutes or so she was in the shower, I was looking at condos. That's the truth, and when she got out, I showed her, and explained I couldn't find the other two condo descriptions at the resort. Failed to mention that, OF COURSE. I wasn't being an ass. I was trying. I just needed a few minutes to myself without being screwed with, drilled on. She doesn't get it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

"I'm still paying for the fancy ring that had to be 2 carats. "

I missed that part. "Had to be"? Did she insist on that? Jeez. 

If she cancelled the wedding, she is obligated to return the ring. You will return it to jewelers and probably take some loss on the deal. That is the same as her losing some of her deposits.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

This is the first I hear that he complains that I don't treat his children right. It has been said to me by an outsider, without solicitation, that I have accepted his children as my own. I'd like to know how I have ever mistreated his children, and if this is the way I am viewed, I will have no further questions. I don't have TV at home and I do not like children (any children) in my garage and garage refrigerator, or in the backyard without permission. That's the only thing I can think of as far as children being mistreated.

He has offered to read some of his threat to me. Prior to my decision to post on this forum, I was unaware of his screen name. I'm not about to make 20 quick meaningless posts in order to gain access to the Private section.

ER has been cancelling his deposits while I was taking care of ordering invitations. Who has cancelled the wedding? Probably, the wiser one.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't want the wedding.

I think, y'all it has officially been canceled. 

Logical end to this threat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> But it makes no difference, she has cancelled the wedding. I'm glad. It was just leading to hard feelings


Well it was certainly bringing your incompatibilities and poor conflict resolution skills to light.

Now you've got something to work on. Assuming of course she doesn't give you marching orders.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> she has cancelled the wedding.





DMMD said:


> Thanks for clarifying that you don't want the wedding.


You two can't even agree on who cancelled the wedding.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DMMD said:


> This is the first I hear that he complains that I don't treat his children right. It has been said to me by an outsider, without solicitation, that I have accepted his children as my own. I'd like to know how I have ever mistreated his children, and if this is the way I am viewed, I will have no further questions. I don't have TV at home and I do not like children (any children) in my garage and garage refrigerator, or in the backyard without permission. That's the only thing I can think of as far as children being mistreated.
> 
> He has offered to read some of his threat to me. Prior to my decision to post on this forum, I was unaware of his screen name. I'm not about to make 20 quick meaningless posts in order to gain access to the Private section.
> 
> ...



I have not complained about how you treat my kids. DOn't know where that is coming from


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

caruso said:


> You two can't even agree on who cancelled the wedding.


indeed


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

caruso said:


> You two can't even agree on who cancelled the wedding.


That's exactly what I was thinking. :crazy::slap::banghead:


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

DMMD said:


> I'm not about to make 20 quick meaningless posts in order to gain access to the Private section.


Well, maybe you should have because the only communication that seems to be going on between you two is through these threads.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Well, maybe you should have because the only communication that seems to be going on between you two is through these threads.




Exactly.
This didn't have to end like this...everything imploded because you guys have terrible communication skills.
It's for the best you are taking a step back...work on yourselves and start talking. Not arguing, not berating...talking.
Who knows, this might not be salvageable at all. There might be too much resentment. 
But if your relationship has a hope of working get into couples therapy and talk.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have not complained about how you treat my kids. DOn't know where that is coming from


I read back through some previous threads, and I must have confused your situation with another poster, who had issues with his GF excluding his kids in things and showing favorable treatment to her own. I do apologize for that confusion on my part. 

However, Ev does have real issues with how DMMD disciplines her kids (or doesn't)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

We talked quite a bit about this last night-- no hard feelings that I knew of. The first thing she says when I get up this morning is---- "I'm not going to have the wedding on the 5th. I don't want it".

Then BYE.

She has texted and we've emailed almost every day for a long time. I don't know why she chose to go back and forth on this thread. I'm not fully understanding why things have gone downhill so badly, other than she is super upset, angry, frustrated-- whatever she wants to call it about the fight we had that she won't let go of. 

Either way, I'm tired of begging, tired of having the wedding cancellation thrown in my face, tired of being punished and argued with.

She "officially" cancelled the wedding a while ago, then acted like she might be considering it again, then "officially" told me this morning that it was not going to happen, and now it's "officially in writing" cancelled again.
So I guess basically she officially cancelled our wedding on an internet forum, which she has repeatedly asked me not to get on----on her own thread!

Yes, I'm seeing that there is indeed some communication problems, anger problems, games being played, and overall resentment and hard feelings. And they're not all on my end.

I have NEVER wanted to cancel our wedding, and have told her that many times. I reluctantly told her about me cancelling the deposit because I was hoping we could work things out and I could get that taken care of the next business day. She told me not to.
She has been the one holding that wedding date over my head, wielding it like a sword of doom, and now says it's history.

There's no reason that this should ever have gotten to this point. No reason at all.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> We talked quite a bit about this last night-- no hard feelings that I knew of. The first thing she says when I get up this morning is---- *"I'm not going to have the wedding on the 5th. I don't want it"*.
> 
> Then BYE.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me, honey. What do you want for dinner?


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> I reluctantly told her about me cancelling the deposit because I was hoping we could work things out and I could get that taken care of the next business day. She told me not to.


It's my understanding that you cancelled the deposits without any discussion prior to doing so. You just took it upon yourself to cancel, and now you're blaming HER for being back and forth on canceling the wedding that "you wanted all along".

You are one passive aggressive guy. You put certain things into play that will cause or escalate conflict, then when it inevitably happens you sit there shaking your head and saying "I didn't do anything".


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ev, you are right, it never should have gotten to this point, because at this point, marriage should not have been on the table yet. I still don't understand the rush. 

The two of you should use this opportunity to have some serious discussion about what you both need and want from this relationship. Just date. Work on things.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think that you will be happy with this guy if you marry him. Way too many arguments and just doesn't seem that you guys are right for each other.


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## DMMD (Sep 22, 2016)

Communication skills or listening skills? Or the skill of reading between the lines and considering one's behaviour vs his words?

He willingly agrees to the beach wedding, tells me the date and the place and to go ahead and plan it. While in reality, he isn't sure he wants it. He continuously throws the price of the ring in my face.

He proceeds to discuss our relationship from his one sided prospective on this forum. Which I still haven't read, but don't expect anything good on that.

He doesn't make any comments on our wedding process not responding to any emails sent to him. So I decide to discuss one aspect of it in person. 

He needs rest one evening and gets dinner, 10 minutes in the coach, 20 minutes in the bathroom, and still doesn't want to do what was requested (not ordered) even after claiming what he originally needed. Then when confronted in a not-so-nice manner that his phone play is more important then his wedding, he still proceeds to NOT do what was requested.

What I could have done differently at that point is realize what I know now: the man doesn't care about the wedding. But instead, I proceeded to nag him. I got all of those nasty things in response, and afterwards declined to snuggle with him and told him my feelings are not the same. This was regarded as a punishment, and more offensive stuff came. Trying to crush me more and more hits below the belt- which didn't trigger any name calling or yelling back. No confrontation at all.

Don't throw opportunities for tangents here- kids don't get along great, I am strict on safety rules and what not. There were several things discussed and ironed out between us and never brought into this discussion.

There is lack of introspect and acknowledgement of faults on ER's side. This comes from a woman who still talked to him after his anger outburst, suggested counseling instead of an instant break up, proceeded to order wedding invitations after he cancelled his deposits. A woman who changed her hair, nail and furniture color for this guy. 

Who suggested to make dinner for him and all the children today after the soft ball game- which was declined.

I don't even know why I am still posting. Time to stop. Things are clear to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

In a summary, EV is not equal to you. 

HE didn't want a big 2 carat ring; YOU did. His opinion was not equal to yours, and he says he willingly "gave in" to your desire for a big ring because he loves you. 

HE didn't want a big wedding; YOU did. His opinion was a justice of the peace, and he says he willingly gave the option of a beach wedding and a date because he loves you.

HE didn't want to look at condos, practice waltzing, or plan a wedding he didn't want: YOU did. His opinion was to leave him alone so he could decompress, and rather than giving him a little peace in his own home, you tried to force him to do what you want, when you wanted it. That is not an "easy request"--it is a demand. 

So there you have it. He is not considered when you make decisions. He feels resentment because he's not considered in his own relationship! How would YOU have felt if he forced you to have a tiny ring, a common law marriage, or nothing but a justice of the peace wedding? Would you have resented being UNCONSIDERED in your own relationship? 

See, the way marriage works, both partners do not make a major decision until the other partner is considered and in 100% full agreement with the decision. So if my Dear Hubby wants a $500 camera and I say "I don't!" he doesn't just run off, do a bunch of research, expect me to get all excited when I review the camera I don't want, and then jump up and down "YAY" when he orders the camera *I* will be working for but didn't want!! 

Same for you. 

In a marriage, he might propose the $500 camera and say "Here is how I propose we pay for it: save half blahblahblah." If I say "no" that does not mean I get my way. It means we are not in agreement, and I then respond with what I WOULD be willing to do "How about this $300 camera which is a $500 camera on sale? Is the brand and quality as reliable?" And we wait until we are in complete agreement as a couple so that WE are united and one team, rather than fighting each other (him against me). 

YOU TWO are continuously "Him against Me" and from what I can observe, you force him to do it your way or you punish him! Furthermore I have yet to see you admit "here's how I contributed to this fight" or "here's the part I did wrong" -- so apparently you are always right. 

I'm sorry--I just do not think it's wise to START a marriage with someone who is a "My Way or the High Way" kind of person.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

P.S. HE didn't want a "wedding" -- YOU did. There are 1000 options out there that are not big weddings that would also be a little bit of an event. You could have had a garden wedding at the local beautiful flower garden. You could have had a ho-down wedding at a local barn. You could have had a drive-through wedding in Vegas Baby! And my guess is that if you had continued to creatively include him until you found one that YOU loved and HE DID TOO....that none of this would have happened!

I hope you both get the therapy you need to mature.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Sounds kind of like she is working hard to build that hill to die on.
I realize that the OP is really hurt by what's happened... but the repeated mention of canceling the wedding just lends to a victim mentality.
It's not healthy and it gives all the tools necessary to rewrite the relationship history. It's hard to come back from something like that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

DMMD said:


> Communication skills or listening skills? Or the skill of reading between the lines and considering one's behaviour vs his words?
> 
> He willingly agrees to the beach wedding, tells me the date and the place and to go ahead and plan it. While in reality, he isn't sure he wants it. He continuously throws the price of the ring in my face.
> 
> ...


All of the points you mention above are well and good.
They are actions from him showing you that *he doesn't want what you want.* Never mind what he says. Actions speak louder.
That's it in a nutshell. Do you really need him to use his words when his actions already tell you the truth?

You're just not on the same page in terms of what you want, in many respects.
You have fundamental differences in what you want for a wedding, a marriage, your finances, your child-rearing preferences. Those are a lot of fundamental differences. Even if things are rosy 95% of the time, 5% of the time you will be waging war with each other, to try and be "right."
Would you rather be right or be together?

That's a question for both of you to ponder.

ETA: There is nothing wrong with having fundamental differences either, but sometimes they make a future relationship impossible. Sometimes it just requires the couple to both learn to relinquish control, be gracious, listen with the other's ears for a change, and re-frame their thinking.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

DMMD said:


> There is lack of introspect and acknowledgement of faults on ER's side.


*Pot Meet Kettle* @DMMD that is projection. Your most recent post was one long lecture, at TAM? at @Evinrude58? IDK

Evinrude, you need to walk away from this because it's a forewarning of things to come. Think of your kids, do you want them subjected to this type treatment? It will happen, trust me.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

How do you change furniture color???


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> How do you change furniture color???


HVLP sprayer?

Consider a cruise ship wedding btw... Far more fun and not too expensive.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

By buying new stuff, getting rid of the darker stuff


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

A note to both of you: if you don't recognise yourself in how your partner talks about you, if your perspectives are so radically different in so many situations, then you are not going to work well together. Not well enough to marry and blend families anyway.

If other people can read your partner's post and say, "wow, what a horrible relationship, get out now", then this is not because THEY (the readers) are the problem or have a problem. *They* are just reacting to how your own partner has described you and your relationship. That's something to really think about.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Unfortunately, if you aren't able to sit down together, organise & compromise a one day event, how will you learn to be able to plan & communicate about bigger life issues in the future? 

If you're having trouble with communication, listening to each other, both unwilling to compromise, not letting things go, holding grudges, resentment, all these things now, before a wedding, well I'd be very concerned about the future marriage. 



Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## SadDaisy (Sep 16, 2015)

The wedding is cancelled, no doubt.

One of the cases where we can observe both sides express their viewpoint. What a case, what a puzzle!

Does anyone see the cycle of abuse? 
Any of the licensed mental health professionals here?
Dr. Lenore Walker. The Battered Woman.

You are a victim of domestic violence, DMMD.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

SadDaisy said:


> The wedding is cancelled, no doubt.
> 
> One of the cases where we can observe both sides express their viewpoint. What a case, what a puzzle!
> 
> ...


Say what?? No she isn't, sorry. Good lord.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

SadDaisy said:


> Does anyone see the cycle of abuse?
> Any of the licensed mental health professionals here?
> Dr. Lenore Walker. The Battered Woman.
> 
> You are a victim of domestic violence, DMMD.


I think you're confusing this story with somebody else's. 

If anything Evinrude58 was the one being abused.


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## SadDaisy (Sep 16, 2015)

DMMD's post is factual and orderly. It is quite lengthy, but it relates her side of the story well. 
Evinrude58's post is emotionally charged, disorganized, and is not devoid of name-calling.

Emotions aside, what did he get upset about? Not getting rest after a busy day at work? From what I see, she served him dinner, left him alone for some time, while she ran to the shower. Subsequently, he had some unwinding time when he spent time in the bathroom by himself. Thus, the lack of ten minute break he is claiming to be the reason for his anger, was not even there. I will actually go to his thread and ask, whether he did or did not get that break that he was in need of when he came home.

Additionally, what he says in this threat about the children, and what he has mentioned in his thread does not exactly add up. Here he says she treats his children well. On his side... Well, lets just go ahead and ask.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

DMMD I don't know if you're still around but good on you for canceling the wedding. Yes I agree, you were being abused. Many posters here are biased because Evinrude is a member. Just look at how the responses changed once they figured out who your fiancé is. I've read both threads. Evin is emotionally unstable (sorry dude it's the truth and it shows in other posts). There is NO excuse for that degree of name calling. My husband and I get on each other's nerves all the time but we don't name call. You can't take back words. It doesn't matter if it just happens once in a while. Verbal abuse is just as bad as physical abuse, and I've suffered both so I know. Would you accept a man slapping you in the face once in a while? And then to expect you to forget all about it and tell him you love him the next day is completely unreasonable. Then he gets angry you didn't get over his insults. That is pretty much how the rest of your life would be if you stayed. 

Yes, you were being a nag. Doesn't excuse name calling. Nagging doesn't have the same intent to hurt. Weddings are extremely stressful and most brides get in freak out mode and push for things to get done. 

You were unreasonable to expect him to be as excited about a wedding as you. Men don't care much for weddings. They just show up honestly (some exceptions of course). Still doesn't excuse verbal abuse. I also recall his thread about the ring and IIRC (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you told him time and time again that you didn't care about the ring. He knew what you really wanted but you told him he didn't need to get it, but he went and got it for you. And now is throwing it in your face (again someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going off memory here). 

Good on you for calling off the wedding. Evinrude does not really see the severity of verbal abuse and continues to blame you for it. That is proof that it would happen again if you stayed. He isn't taking responsibility for his actions. Someone who says they won't ever do it again but "she/he pushed me to do it" is absolutely someone who will do it again. No one pushes you to abuse another person, only your lack of self control.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

SadDaisy said:


> DMMD's post is factual and orderly.


Respectfully, unless you have a personal connection to DMMD that we are unaware of, you have no idea if this is so. None of us do. We make assumptions based on what we read and reply as we choose to. 

Many people are near polar opposite in how they act vs. how they write. I'm one of them. My spoken words are much less edited than my written ones. I bet many regular posters would be surprised to see what I'm like IRL. It's impossible IMO to judge who is "right" or more credible based on what they write. You simply use your judgment. I respect your decision to see a particular side of things, it adds to the discussion greatly, but saying it is factual and orderly, I cannot agree with. I personally thought her first post was all over the map, if you dig beneath the words.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

SadDaisy said:


> DMMD's post is factual and orderly. It is quite lengthy, but it relates her side of the story well.
> Evinrude58's post is emotionally charged, disorganized, and is not devoid of name-calling.


She's calm, needy and controlling, and he's short tempered, emotional with anger issues.

This is nothing new. 



SadDaisy said:


> Emotions aside, what did he get upset about? Not getting rest after a busy day at work? From what I see, she served him dinner, left him alone for some time, while she ran to the shower. Subsequently, he had some unwinding time when he spent time in the bathroom by himself.


Rigidly timed, high pressured alone time. She was watching the clock and they both knew it. That's not rest.



SadDaisy said:


> Here he says she treats his children well. On his side... Well, lets just go ahead and ask.


I have only seen that she treats his children well.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She says the same.
I went by to drop her safety deposit box key off this morning that she was asking for. Brought her fliwers, asked her to talk. She smiled the whole time (she said that the smile didn't mean anything), said she didn't know if she wanted to see me again, didn't miss me, etc. wouldn't come near me, wouldn't budge off of pure and utter coldness. I asked for my ring back, it was given without emotion.

So I'm done, putting it all behind mE. Can't handle a person that cold. 
Asked me if I wanted to know about her thoughts on the rejationship so I could get back to Internet dating.
Wth?

Everything is all my fault with her.
She won't get past blaming and anger.

Who could ever live with a person that holds on to anger like this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SadDaisy said:


> The wedding is cancelled, no doubt.
> 
> One of the cases where we can observe both sides express their viewpoint. What a case, what a puzzle!
> 
> ...


No domestic violence has been revealed, so I think you might have misunderstood the situation as stated in their posts.

Unless you know them personally as a couple? Because if you so and you know for a *fact* that DV has occurred you shouldn't be merely mentioning this on an Internet forum, you should be reporting it to the authorities.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Who could ever live with a person that holds on to anger like this?


Well since you asked.. I probably could.

If she was all those great things you said she was and her only fault, 1% of the time was her controlling and neediness (my words not yours, based on your descriptions), I wouldn't drop to the level of letting her push me around. I'd have my own time and I wouldn't do the whole "it's been 10 minutes sitting on the couch and 20 in the shower". I'd simply ignore it and let her have her tantrums and when I was ready I'd say ok lets sit down and discuss these things. I wouldn't get angry, but if I did I wouldn't let the anger simmer and suddenly erupt and call her a b!tch and tell her my exwife was so much better than her.

I wouldn't do the whole big wedding if I didn't want one, I'd say sorry it's not my thing, and I'm just not going there. I wouldn't reluctantly go along and be passive aggressive and offer to pay for 1 or 2 things and then cancel without telling her.

I'd take her suggestions about how to better care for my kids because hey, let's face it women are better at this than most guys.

If she wasn't good with those things, then I'd agree with her things wouldn't work and we'd part company and she wouldn't get any apologies or flowers from me in a lame attempt to try to win her back and then after she finally does walk away I wouldn't talk about how difficult she was.

But I'm not you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Both of you, I am sorry this has happened.

And everyone can we keep the "noise" down just a little, please?

There was no domestic violence reported in the thread, there are no saints or sinners, just two folks who tried to get it together, but who couldn't make it work.

We need sympathetic friends here, not cheerleaders for either side.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

You're still not getting Evinrude. She's not holding on to anger or being cold. Your words cut her deep. You are still minimizing the verbal abuse. If I was getting married and my soon to be husband called me a B and other horrible things, I would absolutely be heartbroken. I would be utterly confused as to if I should marry such a person or not. And yes, it would most likely kill my love for him. Especially if he didn't own up to his actions like you haven't. Saying "I'm sorry but you pushed me" isn't a true apology. Just a continuation of the argument.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Celes said:


> You're still not getting Evinrude. She's not holding on to anger or being cold. Your words cut her deep. You are still minimizing the verbal abuse. If I was getting married and my soon to be husband called me a B and other horrible things, I would absolutely be heartbroken. I would be utterly confused as to if I should marry such a person or not. And yes, it would most likely kill my love for him. Especially if he didn't own up to his actions like you haven't. Saying "I'm sorry but you pushed me" isn't a true apology. Just a continuation of the argument.


I agree with this. I assure you I've accepted blame in everyday possible, know what I did was wrong. Whayvyouve said is exactly how she feels. I'd do whatever to fix it. But she won't let me. And I can't handle the coldness. I'd just as well move on than feel this way. I asked her for my ring back. She's just too hard to deal with. She needs a person that is a lot stronger than me emotionally, and can take her cold, distant behavior when she is upset. I can't. It puts me in a bad place mentally.

Most of this is my fault, but not all. And she is unable to see how she makes me feel with her cold, upset, gtfo attitude.

I agree with everything you say. But there's not a lot a person can do about it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I don't know if it would kill my love for someone, but it would send me into the same serious evaluation I see happening and if the outcome was irreversible it would go through the stages of grief I'm sure.

If the pride from both cannot be put aside and both look at the serious questions each pose "why do I behave like X when X happens" then the marriage will either be short lived, or miserable in time at best.

I look at both as I would any friends... please get your mind right with yourself, offer transparent and heartfelt apology to the other and to self for the hurtful actions and words, kneel together with each hand over the other (one hand up, one hand down interchanged) with your walls and compartments cast aside and acknowledge you can and owe it to self and another to do better. 

The above may sound cheesy to some, but my thought is to promote equal status in both eyes and open the heart to listening when the mind (pride) simply gets in the way and is embedded too deeply, places humility into the equation allowing actions to lead when words are not enough.

Just my .02¢ for the day, maybe it's simply the emerging Buddhist in me...


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## SadDaisy (Sep 16, 2015)

I have posted on the other thread, and I am not sure the OP is still following.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> this is what calms a woman.. feeling heard.. this will grow far worse as the little tiffs you see now...


100% true, woman LOVE feeling "heard" and feeling "validated".

Even if they could never be MORE WRONG about the particular topic.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's all about the emotion.

Annoying to deal with as a man myself and for most logical men.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> 100% true, woman LOVE feeling "heard" and feeling "validated".
> 
> Even if they could never be MORE WRONG about the particular topic.
> 
> ...


I agree they need this. What makes it unbearable is when they need to be heard and their thoughts validated---- but they can't return the favor. I get all the time that I don't listen to her. I listen, sometimes I just don't understand. I don't think like she does, or feel like she does, and sometimes I just get hard-headed. But I do REALLY listen and try to understand her. There's nothing that hurts me like seeing her disappointed and upset at me..... This is one of the main things I'm planning on working on myself-- not letting her emotions trigger me into getting overly upset or angry. I believe if I can be a stronger person in this aspect, a lot of these blow ups will stop, and the ones that don't will be nipped by me before I go nuclear and destroy her trust and feelings. I will walk away before I let myself get roped into getting my buttons pushed. She is NOT a cruel, mean person-- normally she is just a wonderful, extremely affectionate, thoughtful partner. But she sure as heck can be, and has shown me a cold, uncaring, extremely hard-headed side to her personality. I've seen it directed at certain people before, it's just never been directed at me until now. I'm willing to try to figure out what she needs. Hopefully, she will be as equally willing to figure out where my needs fit in if we keep seeing each other as I hope.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You two need to stick to your respective corners. This cross posting is ridiculous. Entertaining, yes. But, you're the couple who no one will invite for a holiday dinner because they won't want to hear you air your dirty laundry while dinner is getting cold. Grow up!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree they need this. What makes it unbearable is when they need to be heard and their thoughts validated---- but they can't return the favor. I get all the time that I don't listen to her. I listen, sometimes I just don't understand. I don't think like she does, or feel like she does, and sometimes I just get hard-headed. But I do REALLY listen and try to understand her. There's nothing that hurts me like seeing her disappointed and upset at me..... This is one of the main things I'm planning on working on myself-- not letting her emotions trigger me into getting overly upset or angry. I believe if I can be a stronger person in this aspect, a lot of these blow ups will stop, and the ones that don't will be nipped by me before I go nuclear and destroy her trust and feelings. I will walk away before I let myself get roped into getting my buttons pushed. She is NOT a cruel, mean person-- normally she is just a wonderful, extremely affectionate, thoughtful partner. But she sure as heck can be, and has shown me a cold, uncaring, extremely hard-headed side to her personality. * I've seen it directed at certain people before, it's just never been directed at me until now.* I'm willing to try to figure out what she needs. Hopefully, she will be as equally willing to figure out where my needs fit in if we keep seeing each other as I hope.


 @Evinrude58 Ah. Now I think I might understand this situation a little better.

There are some people -please note, I do say people, not women, because there are some men who are exactly the same- who, when people give them what they want and who acquiesce to their demands, are wonderful, extremely affectionate and thoughtful.

However! Should someone stand up to them and say: "Sorry, but I do not agree with you" or "I am sorry, but I cannot do what you want me to do" will suddenly flip to being cold, uncaring and extremely hard-headed.

They are known as "high maintenance" spouses. And for a darn good reason.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> You two need to stick to your respective corners. This cross posting is ridiculous. Entertaining, yes. But, you're the couple who no one will invite for a holiday dinner because they won't want to hear you air your dirty laundry while dinner is getting cold. Grow up!


Have you ever considered that going on an anonymous forum and talking about your "dirty laundry" is a lot better than talking to family and friends about your relationship because you DON'T want them knowing all your crap and thinking about it when they see you?


I'll give you a "suggestion", Blondilocks--- think a little before you jump on someone about posting on here.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> But she sure as heck can be, and has shown me a cold, uncaring, extremely hard-headed side to her personality. I've seen it directed at certain people before, it's just never been directed at me until now.


It was only a matter of time. Do you know how often this is repeated on this forum? After I married him or her I saw this whole new side of him/her I never knew existed!

Dude you dodged a bullet. Stop chasing her and count your blessings.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree with this. I assure you I've accepted blame in everyday possible, know what I did was wrong. Whayvyouve said is exactly how she feels. I'd do whatever to fix it. But she won't let me. And I can't handle the coldness. I'd just as well move on than feel this way. I asked her for my ring back. She's just too hard to deal with. She needs a person that is a lot stronger than me emotionally, and can take her cold, distant behavior when she is upset. I can't. It puts me in a bad place mentally.
> 
> Most of this is my fault, but not all. And she is unable to see how she makes me feel with her cold, upset, gtfo attitude.
> 
> ...


You keep saying you accept blame but I don't think you really get it, since you keep going on about how she was so cold the next day and "punishing" you for not being loving to you right after you called her a B. I don't think you're entirely at fault for the argument, but I do think your reaction was far worse. I believe this is beyond saving but I think you should seek counseling to get to the bottom of your anger issues.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Celes said:


> You keep saying you accept blame but I don't think you really get it, since you keep going on about how she was so cold the next day and "punishing" you for not being loving to you right after you called her a B. I don't think you're entirely at fault for the argument, but I do think your reaction was far worse. I believe this is beyond saving but I think you should seek counseling to get to the bottom of your anger issues.


Yes EV58 sees his exfiancee's coldness as "spitting on him", "tormenting and punishing" him and it's just not fair and she's so mean and all that.

He just doesn't seem to get that this is her natural reflexive response to being really hurt and rejected by the guy she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> One could also fall victim to a meteorite, a bolt of lightning, a drunk driver, an anurism, a heart attack, and any number of things. Does one not let their kids drive with their grandparents because they might have a heart attack or stroke while driving? Does one stay home and not travel because there could be a drunk driver on the road? My point is that the risk is extremely low that at that instance, an accident could happen on a straight road in zero traffic. Safety is one thing, unreasonable fear of an accident is another.


EV that's her boundaries and needed to be respected 

Are you resentful of her paying for "most" of the wedding ?

55


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