# Introspective moment. Nobody's the same after an affair



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Neither the cheater or the victim.

Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.

We understand that it was their fault and not our fault. But for most of us somewhere, deep below our conscious mind, or intellectual mind, at a visceral level, there's a tiny voice whispering: "You just weren't enough for them, were you?" 

It's also possible that I overthink.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Neither the cheater or the victim.
> 
> Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.
> 
> ...


Understandable but false. Cheaterers have a character flaw that lead them to betray someone they VOWED to be loyal to in the most vile. disgusting way. If someone is broken and selfish - they always want more, more, more - then when faced with payng the bill some wake up and realize they are broken and some just go on being vile and selfish.

The unfairness of cheating is whatever scars the WS has - those are self-inflicted - whatever scar the BS were put there by the cheater. The BS was sucker punched by a person who had no concern for their well being at all - that says everything about the cheater and nothing about the BS.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Understandable but false. Cheaterers have a character flaw that lead them to betray someone they VOWED to be loyal to in the most vile. disgusting way. If someone is broken and selfish - they always want more, more, more - then when faced with payng the bill some wake up and realize they are broken and some just go on being vile and selfish.
> 
> The unfairness of cheating is whatever scars the WS has - those are self-inflicted - whatever scar the BS were put there by the cheater. The BS was sucker punched by a person who had no concern for their well being at all - that says everything about the cheater and nothing about the BS.


Intellectually, I *know* this. But viscerally? There's that little voice in the background...


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Intellectually, I *know* this. But viscerally? There's that little voice in the background...


MattMatt,

And this is why I focus on the well being of the Betrayed and I don't give a rats ass about the Wayward.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Intellectually, I *know* this. But viscerally? There's that little voice in the background...


Totally get where you are coming from...you being to examine everything about yourself..this is why cheating gets me so damned angry. The cheater inflicts upon the BS a severe wound that scars them for life.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> And this is why I focus on the well being of the Betrayed and I don't give a rats ass about the Wayward.


Cheaters can go pound sand.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Cheaters can go pound sand.


That is such a great expression!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Neither the cheater or the victim.
> 
> Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.
> 
> ...


Many BS's overthink the situation and many WS underthink which is generally how the mess gets created.

I tend to over analyze everything, most of my "spur of the moment" decisions are rarely spur of the moment. That little visceral voice you talk about still haunts me at times but more with the riddle of why didn't she just talk to me if she was that "unhappy".


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Gotta agree Matt. 

But primarily thanks to this place and it's regular posters such as yourself, TS, CH, Turnera, AC, Bandit, Gus, Thorburn etc (all the way back to when Mori was posting regularly on CWI) I have to say I'm in a much better place mentally and emotionally than I was before the crap happened.

Both in my approach to my marriage and to life in general.

It's kinda like when I got lasered. Feels like you've got a beach in your eyes for a bit, but once the pain and irritation is gone, the clarity ever after is a truly wonderful thing.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Nice topic for a thread matt.

As I have read and posted here some thoughts have clarified and sharpened themselves in my mind. The first is the concept of the fog. While it is purely an emotional concept in the mind of the adultery, it's repercussions on the BS are real. If I could get newbies posting on infidelity to understand from the start it would be the fog. So many cannot grasp that their spouse hate them or are so damaged that it is hardwired in their brains. It freezes them and allows the WS to inflict mortal wounds.

It worked out for me that her infidelity occurred before we had cell phones. I put a key logger and snap shot program on our computer and had a painful first hand seat to their thoughts and actions. Christ, she hated me and her actions stunned people who knew her. Keeping my mouth shut and the key logger saved me.

The second is the concept of empathy. It is the bedrock of friendship and love. When empathy dies, the fog sets in.

Thank you for thread Matt. Finally I think true healing begin to occur when your heart accepts what your mind already knows.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JohnA said:


> Nice topic for a thread matt.
> 
> As I have read and posted here some thoughts have clarified and sharpened themselves in my mind. The first is the concept of the fog. While it is purely an emotional concept in the mind of the adultery, it's repercussions on the BS are real. If I could get newbies posting on infidelity to understand from the start it would be the fog. So many cannot grasp that their spouse hate them or are so damaged that it is hardwired in their brains. It freezes them and allows the WS to inflict mortal wounds.
> 
> ...


The weird thing was that during her affair, my wife told me she still loved me on a number of ocasions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Matt,

It was part of the fog, even though you deserved what she did tp you, she pitied (not loved) you - like a good person should. This is the insanity of it, and it is our inability to accept this that causes us so much harm. 

How can a rapist say "yea I kinda feel bad for her" and turn around and do it again? How ?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

i know that I'm very different now. For one thing, I am unable to trust and because of that I don't ever want another relationship. I was way too trusting before (I felt I was married to the most reliable man on earth). Shaking my head. We live and learn.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm NOT the same person I was. I DO feel like I wasn't good enough. If I had been blonde, had a bigger butt, better sense of style, more girly, maybe...just maybe it would have been enough. I will never know though, because I will NEVER be those things. I'm a simple country girl that loves her flip flops, jeans, shorts, tshirts, and tank tops! I didn't have a mother to teach me to be "girly" or have a sense of style (because she was always p*ss drunk)- so, I ended up being a tomboy. While I have glammed myself up a tad, I'm no where near the "high maintenance" women my H seems to adore. 

I don't get my nails done, I don't trim my hair every 6 weeks, I like never wear heels, jewelry is minimal for me - meaning I put earrings in once every 4 months or so to keep the holes open (it's bad y'all...not kidding).

Seems a bit ridiculous that I have thought all of this out, huh? Down to the amount of jewelry I don't wear...as if that was the problem in the marriage...bleh...see, I'm not the same person, now I'm just a crazy freak-a-zoid. 

Oh well. I'm healing. I know that one day I will feel better!


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Openminded said:


> i know that I'm very different now. For one thing, I am unable to trust and because of that I don't ever want another relationship. I was way too trusting before (I felt I was married to the most reliable man on earth). Shaking my head. We live and learn.


I feel the exact same way. I wonder if that's common for BSs...Like I would be happy single for the rest of my life because there is no way I would trust anyone ever again.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Intellectually, I *know* this. But viscerally? There's that little voice in the background...


In time, that little voice will go away because it was not the BSs fault in any way. A cheater that broke their vows by not ending one relationship before starting another own 100% of the fault. 

They dis honored themselves and the BS is a casualty of WSs selfish act (s).

When you're a casualty, their is no fault in you! Time helps with changing that mentality of owning what was never yours.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> The weird thing was that during her affair, my wife told me she still loved me on a number of ocasions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*So did my RSXW, all while she was off busy getting herself some secretive "hot beef injections" while in other cities on her "business travels!"!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> I feel the exact same way. I wonder if that's common for WWs...Like I would be happy single for the rest of my life because there is no way I would trust anyone ever again.


Many people (not all, of course) jump right back into relationships. I did have one very serious relationship after my divorce and realized it wasn't fair to him that I can no longer trust so I ended it. I prefer to very casually date now and then but that's all I'm able to do. I don't see that changing. I like being alone.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

She still tells me she wants the old husband back. He's gone!! Changed forever!!! She said she wants the man she married. When you shatter a person like a vase and attempt to glue it all back together you realize #1 its a mess with pieces scattered everywhere. #2 two process is long and hard. #3 is not the same as before in looks and strength. #4 will always have cracks #5 touched wrong and you will get cut. #6 many pieces missing. #7 is now glued together instead of molded and formed to be strong. #8 no matter how many times you tell the vase it looks good, the vase has a mirror.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I think people who cheat vary. 

1. Men who seek multiple women because its pleasurable regardless of any damage to the marriage. 

2. Women with a chronic character or psychological problem which leads them to cheat. 

3. Men with poor sex lives with their wives or serious other problems. 

4. Women who feel neglected, sometimes with justification. 

5. People with bad marriages. 

I think you have to examine the situation. We had a woman friend who after dealing with a difficult and dominating husband had an affair. Because she had children she decided to stop, and had made her marriage work, now appreciates her husband in some ways but its still a marriage where she gives or comprises 75% of the time. Ultimately I think she is happy though.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> In time, that little voice will go away because it was not the BSs fault in any way. A cheater that broke their vows by not ending one relationship before starting another own 100% of the fault.
> 
> They dis honored themselves and the BS is a casualty of WSs selfish act (s).
> 
> When you're a casualty, their is no fault in you! Time helps with changing that mentality of owning what was never yours.


It doesn't completely go away. Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Heartbreak is a universal human condition. You love someone you can't have, or you have them and it breaks up, or they cheat on you, or someone dies. Nobody likes it but we all learn to deal with it.

For those of us who first experience this heartbreak through cheating, it has a special focus in our thinking. I don't know if it would be any worse than, say, a friend of mine who came home to find their spouse and most of the furniture gone without warning.

MattMatt, how are you progressing? Do you feel like you are in a better place than when you joined TAM just over three years ago?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Totally get where you are coming from...you being to examine everything about yourself..this is why cheating gets me so damned angry. The cheater inflicts upon the BS a severe wound that scars them for life.


In your typical (western) marriage there is usually some form of the scripture:
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

After an affair, the marriage has had a wedge driven into it. There are many ways to deal with this wedge, but I'd guess a very small percentage of couples can ever completely remove it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Intellectually, I *know* this. But viscerally? There's that little voice in the background...


MM in the end the cheater must come to the conclusion that

_*I'm not enough for myself*_

Only then can they begin to make things right.

55


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

just got it 55 said:


> MM in the end the cheater must come to the conclusion that
> 
> _*I'm not enough for myself*_
> 
> ...


My wife did her best to make things right.

Sometimes her idea of "making things right" is less than helpful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Heartbreak is a universal human condition. You love someone you can't have, or you have them and it breaks up, or they cheat on you, or someone dies. Nobody likes it but we all learn to deal with it.
> 
> For those of us who first experience this heartbreak through cheating, it has a special focus in our thinking. I don't know if it would be any worse than, say, a friend of mine who came home to find their spouse and most of the furniture gone without warning.
> 
> MattMatt, how are you progressing? Do you feel like you are in a better place than when you joined TAM just over three years ago?


Yes, a much better place. I grew to realise that I needed something to help me deal with some pretty strong (and well-deserved, it has to be said) guilt issues and residual problems with having being cheated on several times, by three different women.

I googled and, thankfully, found TAM.

I hope in my three years that I have also been able to help others.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Augusto said:


> She still tells me she wants the old husband back. He's gone!! Changed forever!!! She said she wants the man she married. When you shatter a person like a vase and attempt to glue it all back together you realize #1 its a mess with pieces scattered everywhere. #2 two process is long and hard. #3 is not the same as before in looks and strength. #4 will always have cracks #5 touched wrong and you will get cut. #6 many pieces missing. #7 is now glued together instead of molded and formed to be strong. #8 no matter how many times you tell the vase it looks good, the vase has a mirror.


#9 you're stronger and smarter now and would never go back to being that guy, right?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Can we all be honest here for a second, most BS would have NEVER done the soul searching, introspective and self examination they do once they were cheated on. So, are they changed forever, yes, and in that darkness and despair if they choose to, is where they do some amazing personal growth. And for that, their ws may have actually helped them unknowingly. Dude


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Can we all be honest here for a second, most BS would have NEVER done the soul searching, introspective and self examination they do once they were cheated on. So, are they changed forever, yes, and in that darkness and despair if they choose to, is where they do some amazing personal growth. And for that, their ws may have actually helped them unknowingly. Dude


Helped? You've got to be kidding. I somehow don't think I will be thanking my stbx


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

What I meant is the experience need not be totally negative. A lot of bs get into amazing physical shape, learn more about themselves then they could have ever envisioned. And some, shania twain comes to mind, are far better off with their new spouse. Some waywards go downhill physically/mentally so for some bs they actually are off the hook so to speak. Dude


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

marduk said:


> #9 you're stronger and smarter now and would never go back to being that guy, right?


My wife, sometime after her affair, said: "Whatever happened to the nice, kind, loving Matt I first met?"

I didn't even bother to reply.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Some people can't get passed the betrayal. It appears you may fall into that category and need to bolt.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> It doesn't completely go away. Ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I must be an exception to the rule then...NOT likely:surprise:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> I must be an exception to the rule then...NOT likely:surprise:


It goes away for long periods of time, then there's a trigger and...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

MM is it possible you are not the type of bs to get passed it?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

If we look at this objectively, no one is ever completely enough for anyone else. There is/are always some thing(s) that the other person just overlooks or accepts. No one of us is an absolute perfect partner for another for to be so would mean that we would have to be in every way perfect to our SO in form and function, we are not. So then we each accept our SOs, and their insufficiencies, as being sufficient enough to make us content. That contentment is found within the individuaI. Think of it this way, when someone buys a new car they have always wanted they are thrilled and excited to have it. As time goes on that car, the exact one that excited and thrilled them before, suddenly is no longer sufficient to cause those feelings. What has the car done? It still runs fine and looks good and has provided them years of good service but now they no longer content with it. They soon trade it in on another model that now excites them and gives them that thrill except when the time comes to write the payment check each month. Then they see the new car isn't so much different from their old one and they wonder if they made a mistake in trading. So was it the car that caused their loss of contentment or was it their mind that began to see the car as now insufficient to thrill them? Again contentment comes from within and nothing you could have done would have stopped your wife's mind from seeing you as no longer sufficient to meet her perceived needs. I say perceived because in true reality you were sufficient but in her mind she made it out to be otherwise. She is the one lacking not you.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

No choice nailed it


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> MattMatt,
> 
> And this is why I focus on the well being of the Betrayed and I don't give a rats ass about the Wayward.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
I think I agree:grin2:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> Some people can't get passed the betrayal. It appears you may fall into that category and need to bolt.


Who, me? I am over it.

Sometimes it seems like it happened to a different person a long, long time ago.

Even so, I still, sometimes get triggered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

When I finally got my wife to confess it wasn't at all like I thought it would be. I had prepared for this for over two and a half years, only to get kicked by a horse in the gut. My wife is my only so that little voice MattMatt speaks of, screamed I wasn't good enough. My beliefs, my faith, destroyed in one evening. I didn't know who I was or what I had been. I was dead on the inside except for that damn voice. 

I did many things I can't believe that I actually did. Some very embarrassing things also. I was humiliated to talk about intimacy with my MC and IC. Both were female and I struggled talking about something so very personal to me. I struggle talking about it here, and I have nobody sitting in front of me. Yet it is my personal belief and therefore very personal to me. 

That voice screamed at me for nine months that I wasn't good enough. It has now dissipated to a mild yell but still very loud. Just to embarrass myself further, I'll tell you just how much that voice bothered me. I bought pills that enhance a males privates because I thought I wasn't good enough. I can only hope that one day this voice tells me, just kidding, and that I never I hear it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> It goes away for long periods of time, then there's a trigger and...


Now that's better because you are healing. That inner voice WILL go away. Time MM, give it time....yeah more blasted time I know :wink2:

Complete healing never comes fast enough. You will always have triggers. You lost your life partner and your marriage in one very unfair and painful sweep. 

the inner voice starts getting softer and shows its ugly head more sporadically until time does its thing and it will disappear. 

Nothing the BS does or doesn't do merits getting cheated on. 

If there was such a big issue with the BS, then it should have been voiced out before boinking someone else or getting emotional needs met by a stranger. 

That is why TAM always says that infidelity is 100% the cheater's fault. That inner voice is NOT screaming any truth!


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

NoChoice

Perhaps when that person starts to look for a new car it isn't because the old car is lacking something- it is because they themselves are lacking something. I am no longer happy with myself-I look around to place some blame and see the old car has some dents and is lacking the rearview backup display. 

I buy the new car. I am now very happy. I can see whats behind me and back up much easier. However, soon I realize the new car doesn't have as much storage- the seats aren't as deep or comfortable. I'm unhappy again.

What they should do when they start to feel this way is fix themselves. Learn to parallel park. Become a better driver. Try maintaining the old car properly. Go with it to get it serviced. Give it some premium gas. Lovingly bring back its shine.

MattMatt- we are all responsible for our own happiness. (this should be tattooed on every WS) You were always good enough. 
WW was lacking something within herself.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

nursejackie said:


> NoChoice
> 
> Perhaps when that person starts to look for a new car it isn't because the old car is lacking something- it is because they themselves are lacking something. I am no longer happy with myself-I look around to place some blame and see the old car has some dents and is lacking the rearview backup display.
> 
> ...


I was informed in another thread that my analogies were "terrible" but you seem to have interpreted it precisely. Contentment is internal and to seek it elsewhere is futile and often destructive.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> I was informed in another thread that my analogies were "terrible" but you seem to have interpreted it precisely. Contentment is internal and to seek it elsewhere is futile and often destructive.


Ahhhhhhh NoChoice I read that on the other thread and thought:wtf:

I'm baby new here and your posts get to me in a very food for thought way. If I'm not careful I will put like on almost all your posts, so I watch myself. Don't wanna come on as a Cyber Likes stalker :surprise:

Keep posting your brain food dude, I know I'm not alone in my thinking:wink2:

Bibi


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> Ahhhhhhh NoChoice I read that on the other thread and thought:wtf:
> 
> I'm baby new hear and your posts get to me in a very food for thought way. If I'm not careful I will put like on almost all your posts, so I watch myself. Don't wanna come on as a Cyber Likes stalker :surprise:
> 
> ...


I sincerely try to offer posts that help the OP and perhaps others that read them as well. I contacted the other poster and I believe it was just a misinterpretation of my analogy. We all no doubt, at some point, offer a post that can be taken differently than intended, it is unavoidable.

I appreciate your kind words of support and since I have never been stalked I would probably not recognize it as such and simply see it as agreement.:smile2:


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Neither the cheater or the victim.
> 
> Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.
> 
> ...


From reading several posts over the past months this would certainly seem accurate. But a second possible reaction as the BS exists as well, your WS is broken, has lost some of their 'mental capacity and reasoning' etc...not making excuses for them at all- it's all on them and they own their actions but I know the guy my wife wanted to have an affair with is not even in my realm(not being arrogant just happens to be the truth in this case)...bottom line, he just wasn't me and that was enough....I think they are broken because anyone who would give up history-commitment-love for something different or new has a value issue....


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

McDean said:


> I think they are broken because anyone who would give up history-commitment-love for something different or new has a value issue....


I don't think this is true. I believe in commitment, but marriages end. Does everyone who divorces have a value issue?

Cheating is ALWAYS a value issue. But everyone has limits. I think some people are more likely to cheat than others, but I truly believe anyone is capable of cheating given a sufficiently large conflation of circumstances. 

The answer given to this on TAM is....if you want it that bad, divorce. And I get the logic of that. But what if you are fighting to resist that temptation? What if you fall into cheating because you genuinely tried to stay committed to the marriage and weren't strong enough? Is that less honourable than someone who walks away from their spouse and kids at the first whiff of temptation?

It's scary, but at the same time liberating, to move beyond hating / blaming the cheater.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Wazza said:


> But what if you are fighting to resist that temptation? What if you fall into cheating because you genuinely tried to stay committed to the marriage and weren't strong enough? Is that less honourable than someone who walks away from their spouse and kids at the first whiff of temptation?


In my opinion, that person who couldn't resist the need to cool a fire in their pants, no matter how hard they tried is absolutely far less honorable that the person who walks away from the marriage. Why? It's easier for someone to fall to the temptation and make that conscious decision to hurt their spouse and family .... because they can do it with the idea in their minds that they may never be caught (and let's face it, many don't) and go on with their family life as normal. They will attempt to enjoy the best of both worlds. That should tell you a lot about them as individuals and it defines them. However, I can't think of a situation where someone would walk away from a family just because they felt a need to scratch an itch in their paints; a lot of thought, effort and fear would go into the process of leaving a family and hurting their loved ones; the repercussions are immediate. It takes a lot more effort and thought than to just jump on a strangers lap.



Wazza said:


> It's scary, but at the same time liberating, to move beyond hating / blaming the cheater.


Not for me, and I'm sure for many others.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

staarz21 said:


> I'm NOT the same person I was. I DO feel like I wasn't good enough. If I had been blonde, had a bigger butt, better sense of style, more girly, maybe...just maybe it would have been enough. I will never know though, because I will NEVER be those things. I'm a simple country girl that loves her flip flops, jeans, shorts, tshirts, and tank tops! I didn't have a mother to teach me to be "girly" or have a sense of style (because she was always p*ss drunk)- so, I ended up being a tomboy. While I have glammed myself up a tad, I'm no where near the "high maintenance" women my H seems to adore.
> 
> I don't get my nails done, I don't trim my hair every 6 weeks, I like never wear heels, jewelry is minimal for me - meaning I put earrings in once every 4 months or so to keep the holes open (it's bad y'all...not kidding).
> 
> ...


Staarz1, you know what? I might have been you, I grew up in the country, loved my horse, loved my dog, loved my guitar. But half of me is English and when I went home to visit family for a high school graduation present, I made SO much sense to myself. But I didn't intend to write about myself, other than to say I grew up in an environment where I always felt like a fifth wheel or a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. What I wanted to say is, you sound awesome and amazing. Who WOULDN'T give their right arm to be comfortable in their own skin (jeans, tank top, flip flops) and have the self-awareness you have? That's attractive to a decent and healthy man. I guess my big question is, how come I didn't see the signs of my h's bi polar years ago, and how come I didn't believe his mother when she said he was spoiled and always got whatever he wanted (in my case, an OW 7 years ago but still wanted to have the safety net of our home). 

Staarz1, when I grow up, I want to be as excited about who I am as you sound about who you are. And I want to make a man who wants to be in a relationship know that and be really clear about that before ANYthing happens going forward.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

just got it 55 said:


> MM in the end the cheater must come to the conclusion that
> 
> _*I'm not enough for myself*_
> 
> ...


Totally agree. My h has a psychological challenge he won't admit, that includes hypersexuality. A bout of ED after surgery intensified that, and I don't know why he didn't love himself enough to get professional help, but chose instead to shack up. One of the things I've been waiting to say to him for a long time is, gee, hon, why didn't you love YOURSELF enough to get appropriate and useful help? He's never lived alone his entire life, got drafted so he never got to sew wild oats and learn who he really was and is.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> My wife, sometime after her affair, said: "Whatever happened to the nice, kind, loving Matt I first met?"
> 
> I didn't even bother to reply.


I am about to lay down some serious boundaries with my h, and I think I'm going to get that same response. Nice, kind, loving, as in doormat? No thanks.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> i know that I'm very different now. For one thing, I am unable to trust and because of that I don't ever want another relationship. I was way too trusting before (I felt I was married to the most reliable man on earth). Shaking my head. We live and learn.


This is very much the place im in. I placed unwavering(also misplaced) trust in my XW. Im pretty sure I idealized it. I thought there was no possible way she would ever cheat on me. Just as I positively knew I would never cheat on her. I was wrong. I treated her like I treated myself. I see differently now. Which I think is unfortunate. They are damaged people, because someone(s) damaged them. All they did was to pass the hurt along. 

I really hope someday I find a better love than I had for her, with someone else. But, maybe i am being far too naive(again) now.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> When I finally got my wife to confess it wasn't at all like I thought it would be. I had prepared for this for over two and a half years, only to get kicked by a horse in the gut. My wife is my only so that little voice MattMatt speaks of, screamed I wasn't good enough. My beliefs, my faith, destroyed in one evening. I didn't know who I was or what I had been. *I was dead on the inside except for that damn voice. *
> 
> 
> I can only hope that one day this voice tells me, just kidding, and that I never I hear it again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This!:crying:And my h said HE was dead inside, which is why he went looking for OW. Two people dead inside and a marriage in tatters. There has to be a better way.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> Ahhhhhhh NoChoice I read that on the other thread and thought:wtf:
> 
> I'm baby new here and your posts get to me in a very food for thought way. If I'm not careful I will put like on almost all your posts, so I watch myself. Don't wanna come on as a Cyber Likes stalker :surprise:
> 
> ...


OMG, Bibi, thanks. Not only did I love that post, but I click "like" a lot, and I too was worried about looking like a stalker!! LOL! God knows I need all the help I can get, and there's so much to absorb here and so many articulate and helpful people. I've always been the type to affirm people, but I try not to appear as a sycophant! :ezpi_wink1:


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Damaged Goods...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

But is it really cheating if your husband, wife or boy/girlfriend tells you in advance that they are going to have an affair?

Yes. 

But better to find out that way than to find them in bed with someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> This!:crying:And my h said HE was dead inside, which is why he went looking for OW. Two people dead inside and a marriage in tatters. There has to be a better way.





Please forgive me teddieG, but I don't know your story, I can tell you I'm a year and a half from d-day and it does slowly get better. But the beginning, son of a gun if that isn't some tough crap to go through!! I wish you the best. Have you told your story?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Staarz1, you know what? I might have been you, I grew up in the country, loved my horse, loved my dog, loved my guitar. But half of me is English and when I went home to visit family for a high school graduation present, I made SO much sense to myself. But I didn't intend to write about myself, other than to say I grew up in an environment where I always felt like a fifth wheel or a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. What I wanted to say is, you sound awesome and amazing. Who WOULDN'T give their right arm to be comfortable in their own skin (jeans, tank top, flip flops) and have the self-awareness you have? That's attractive to a decent and healthy man. I guess my big question is, how come I didn't see the signs of my h's bi polar years ago, and how come I didn't believe his mother when she said he was spoiled and always got whatever he wanted (in my case, an OW 7 years ago but still wanted to have the safety net of our home).
> 
> Staarz1, when I grow up, I want to be as excited about who I am as you sound about who you are. And I want to make a man who wants to be in a relationship know that and be really clear about that before ANYthing happens going forward.


Wow Teddie, thank you. I never thought about myself being excited about who I was. I think that's a wonderful characteristic you have, being able to see between the lines and show someone that if they just look at things a little differently, they might have a better perspective. 

I'm so sorry about your H. I think sometimes we overlook some very key parts of people that would eventually turn us away if we just opened our eyes. It is difficult to do that when you're feeling so in love though. My H was, at the time, mysterious, confident, so sweet just when I needed him to be, like he could read my emotions, he was hilarious and we could just be amazing in a moment and not feel anything other than happy. 

After his affair, I didn't see him that way anymore. When that blinder came off, I started to remember the red flags. One memory -I completely forgot about - recently resurfaced about 2 weeks ago. I sit here and think to myself, how in the hell did I lose so much respect for myself that I allowed him to make me feel that way. Then, I was stupid enough to continue the relationship after that. He always did have a way with words. I was weak and small minded. 

Which is why I would be perfectly happy alone for the rest of my life. I don't want anyone to think they would ever have a chance to hurt me again. My entire life has been pain. I'm way over it. Now, I'm just p*ssed. Eventually, that too will pass, I assume. 

Just remember that many, many people go through this same thing..."How could I not see it before" is very typical. We did see it, we just ignored it because some parts were better and at least at the time, we thought they were being proactive in working on it. After they fail us - we realize they have stopped caring about anyone but themselves - we wake up.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Totally agree. My h has a psychological challenge he won't admit, that includes hypersexuality. A bout of ED after surgery intensified that, and I don't know why he didn't love himself enough to get professional help, but chose instead to shack up. One of the things I've been waiting to say to him for a long time is, gee, hon, why didn't you love YOURSELF enough to get appropriate and useful help? He's never lived alone his entire life, got drafted so he never got to sew wild oats and learn who he really was and is.




I never lived alone either, my only has been my wife, so maybe I didn't get to sew my wild oats either. Wait a minute, I didn't cheat, I agree with most that you have written. It's how your husband views intimacy really. How much value does he place on it? I value intimacy very highly, if the most that you can give of yourself to the one you love. I can't just give myself away for temporary pleasure. That is reserved for the one person I love, and something I struggled with greatly, how my wife was able to just give herself away. And then to give it away to some jerk in his sixties who is utterly ridiculous looking, no wonder that voice screamed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> I am about to lay down some serious boundaries with my h, and I think I'm going to get that same response. Nice, kind, loving, as in doormat? No thanks.




I'd be nervous now MM!!!! Here comes the wrath of a woman scorned!!>
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Neither the cheater or the victim.
> 
> Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.
> 
> ...


i spent years trying to reconcile and resolve in my own mind why my ex's. cheated. one thing i didn't do though was to question whether i was man enough. i always did my best satisfied my ex's. i did wonder and agonize what i did wrong in terms of how i reacted within the relationship. I do know i did a lot of stupid wrong things that ordinary dumb guys do. they would repeatedly tell me it was them not me.
i spent a lot of time grappling with that too. in the end i believe they were right.

i moved on from them and got remarried and am now in marital bliss. however even after meeting my current wife, i continued to reflect and analyze what happened. it's only very recently that i finally resolved all the issues in my head. i now have no bitterness towards them, finally.

but you're right. you're never the same again forever.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Please forgive me teddieG, but I don't know your story, I can tell you I'm a year and a half from d-day and it does slowly get better. But the beginning, son of a gun if that isn't some tough crap to go through!! I wish you the best. Have you told your story?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I haven't, well, maybe a little on Truthseeker1's thread about whether the cheating partner becomes unattractive. . I thought it was winding down but it is picking up steam again. I got bomb drop in June of 2008 and then got it again, after I thought we were reconciling, about 3 weeks ago, after h had major surgery, told me how glad he was I spent the three days in the hospital with him and took him back, and then as soon as he was recovered and the doctor allowed him to drive, he reconnected with his former OW. His affair began after he had procedures for kidney stones, an inept doctor who put a stent (very clumsily) in his private part to keep a stone from descending, and did even more damage taking it out. The doctor died before we could sue him for malpractice, but he decided if he loved me, he wouldn't have ED (oh no, never blame a physiological or psychological source for a situation like that). So the surgery about six weeks ago spooked him; he was convinced he was dying when he woke up on the ventilator and had to be put back to sleep. It was a trigger; when mortality hit Peter Pan in 2008 he thought a new sexual encounter was the solution to his problem. 

He's a Peter Pan. I loved him and thought we could work it out. But I don't want to now.  Thanks for asking. Sorry if I'm threadjacking!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Personal said:


> I'm not the same person yet despite all of what happened (perhaps because I ended our marital relationship immediately and moved on), I am in a far better place and am a better person because I grew from that experience. For me trust has never been an issue because her "physical" infidelity (I never thought emotional affairs were a thing) was something she did to me, it wasn't something other women have done or will do to me.


That is exactly how I feel about my midlife crisis XH! I couldn't of said it better myself. Thank you for putting it so eloquently and to the point!:smile2:

Bibi


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Wazza said:


> The answer given to this on TAM is....if you want it that bad, divorce. And I get the logic of that. But what if you are fighting to resist that temptation? What if you fall into cheating because you genuinely tried to stay committed to the marriage and weren't strong enough? Is that less honourable than someone who walks away from their spouse and kids at the first whiff of temptation?


Uhm, yeah, ok, I understand giving in to temptation, it IS something that happens to a lot of people when circumstances are favorable. But fall into cheating while you FIGHT to resist? Man, if you are THAT much dominated by your crotch you need medical attention... You fall into temptation because you enter circumstances thinking you can handle them and then you can't, but I've never seen anybody fight tooth and nail to avoid ****ing someone else... come on, trying to grab a lampost to avoid being sucked into the arms of your AP? Are you serious on that one? 



Wazza said:


> It's scary, but at the same time liberating, to move beyond hating / blaming the cheater.


I can get the hating part, but blaming? So personal responsibility and accountability are optionals?
Oh... Maybe you were thinking about that incredible power that sucks people into strangers' crotches while they fight to avoid it...


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I never lived alone either, my only has been my wife, so maybe I didn't get to sew my wild oats either. Wait a minute, I didn't cheat, I agree with most that you have written. It's how your husband views intimacy really. How much value does he place on it? I value intimacy very highly, if the most that you can give of yourself to the one you love. I can't just give myself away for temporary pleasure. That is reserved for the one person I love, and something I struggled with greatly, how my wife was able to just give herself away. And then to give it away to some jerk in his sixties who is utterly ridiculous looking, no wonder that voice screamed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh drifting, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think he knows what real love is and what real intimacy is. He sure had me fooled. And given what Staarz1 said about the red flags we miss, my struggle is, was the h back then the real deal, or is this guy post four or five surgeries and with depression running rampant the real guy who just doesn't have the energy to put up the facade? I don't mean that in a cruel way, I just don't think the coping mechanisms he established were entirely effective but they served him for a while, until they didn't. My husband had friends who were in the military with him and he told me that everywhere those guys were stationed, they immediately got a girlfriend or a mistress or slept around, because the military was going to solve the problem for them and relocate them in two years. My h lost his father when h was 15, was drafted at 18, and these guys were huge role models for him, and though he claims not to be so free-wheeling, I truly believe that while he craved stability in a relationship, his friends taught him that real men sleep around. :frown2:


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> OMG, Bibi, thanks. Not only did I love that post, but I click "like" a lot, and I too was worried about looking like a stalker!! LOL! God knows I need all the help I can get, and there's so much to absorb here and so many articulate and helpful people. I've always been the type to affirm people, but I try not to appear as a sycophant! :ezpi_wink1:


ahhhh shucks...thanks...you made me blush :x

I know right! So much wonderful insight from lots of peeps here! I love it. It's addictive...well let me rephrase that I'm addicted :grin2:

Bibi


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Has everyone missed the point, the cheater is NOT swapping you out necessarily, they are having more needs met by having you BOTH!! Its not about what you did or didn't do per se, its about getting the most needs met as possible. Same reason some people have a sports car and a truck. Sometimes you need the truck to haul things and sometimes you want to go REALLY REALLY FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUDE


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TeddieG said:


> No, I haven't, well, maybe a little on Truthseeker1's thread about whether the cheating partner becomes unattractive. . I thought it was winding down but it is picking up steam again. I got bomb drop in June of 2008 and then got it again, after I thought we were reconciling, about 3 weeks ago, after h had major surgery, told me how glad he was I spent the three days in the hospital with him and took him back, and then as soon as he was recovered and the doctor allowed him to drive, he reconnected with his former OW. His affair began after he had procedures for kidney stones, an inept doctor who put a stent (very clumsily) in his private part to keep a stone from descending, and did even more damage taking it out. The doctor died before we could sue him for malpractice, but he decided if he loved me, he wouldn't have ED (oh no, never blame a physiological or psychological source for a situation like that). So the surgery about six weeks ago spooked him; he was convinced he was dying when he woke up on the ventilator and had to be put back to sleep. It was a trigger; when mortality hit Peter Pan in 2008 he thought a new sexual encounter was the solution to his problem.
> 
> He's a Peter Pan. I loved him and thought we could work it out. But I don't want to now.  Thanks for asking. Sorry if I'm threadjacking!


Your husband thinks he is Peter Pan









But really he is more lavatory pan


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

italianjob said:


> Uhm, yeah, ok, I understand giving in to temptation, it IS something that happens to a lot of people when circumstances are favorable. But fall into cheating while you FIGHT to resist? Man, if you are THAT much dominated by your crotch you need medical attention... You fall into temptation because you enter circumstances thinking you can handle them and then you can't, but I've never seen anybody fight tooth and nail to avoid ****ing someone else... come on, trying to grab a lampost to avoid being sucked into the arms of your AP? Are you serious on that one?


Affairs are not always about crotch. People get lonely. Slopes get slippery. Boundaries get compromised, and all of a sudden a line is crossed.

Remember the context of what I said. Someone who believes marriage is for life, and is trying to honour that, at a time of great unhappiness.



italianjob said:


> So personal responsibility and accountability are optionals?


Where did I say that? I think I said he exact opposite. Cheating is always a values issue. The notion that we are imperfect and sometimes fail does not negate personal responsibility.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> I feel the exact same way. I wonder if that's common for BSs...Like I would be happy single for the rest of my life because there is no way I would trust anyone ever again.


My experience is if she could cheat, and that's why most cheaters do not get caught, anybody could. That doesn't stop a person from being in another relationship. It teaches you to be realistic and accept no bullsh!t. Have boundareis, stick to them and always be wary. Just like the African savannah, there are predators every where. You might even be living with one.

Forewarned is forearmed.

As an aside, my cheating ltr turned out to be sterile. Her betrayal turned out to be in my favor.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> My wife, sometime after her affair, said: "Whatever happened to the nice, kind, loving Matt I first met?"
> 
> I didn't even bother to reply.


You should revisit this with your wife. I guarantee a cheater will not see themselves reflected in your response. Most would use it as another excuse as to why they cheated regardless of your change coming after the affair.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Has everyone missed the point, the cheater is NOT swapping you out necessarily, they are having more needs met by having you BOTH!! Its not about what you did or didn't do per se, its about getting the most needs met as possible. Same reason some people have a sports car and a truck. Sometimes you need the truck to haul things and sometimes you want to go REALLY REALLY FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUDE


Intellectually I get that. But emotionally, I feel replaced, abandoned, and tossed under the bus. That's not right. My h should be talking to me about what needs of his are NOT being met, not going out to meet them with someone else while trying to string me along. Yes, he ate cake, but he's about to find that the plate is emptying fast. And the OW who reappeared has done so in part, I'm convinced, just to prove she could win, to prove she could steal him from me. She totally believes that he cheated with her because of things that were wrong in our marriage or wrong with me. She thinks she's rescuing him. He played the victim card. And she herself was cheated on by her first husband. She's trying to prove something to herself by landing this big catch, and he's a big fish in a small pond of her family, the BMOC whose chest swells with pride about fitting into this ******* family with the drunk daughter/sister they're trying to unload. So he in turn is rescuing her from food stamps and government-sponsored day care for the kid she had to trap another guy like him but who was smarter and didn't fall for it. Neither one of them understand consequences for behavior. 

I guess the question is, for 13 of the 20 years I've known this guy, I never would have dreamed this would be the outcome of our relationship. Surgery and an inept urologist changed him 7 years ago and he's never been the same since. I'm in over my head and I have let him go, the divorce is underway, and he'll marry her. But I just shake my head sometimes and say, what the hell happened??? Whatever I did or didn't do in our marriage, I didn't do anything to cause or deserve THIS!


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Your husband thinks he is Peter Pan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MattMatt, yeah, you're probably right. I've tried to take the high road and continue to try to understand his struggles and his mental health issue (bi polar) and be kind and loving, but I am starting to struggle with the issue of his personal responsibility. He is being used and manipulated by his OW who just wants his money and his health insurance, but there is a very significant level of mental health and physical health problems (he shows signs of dementia from time to time). The bottom line is, I stuck things out with him because I wanted to see if, as he addressed his physical issues, like his blood pressure, heart condition, possible prostate cancer, poor circulation, over time his mental health condition would improve. He told me one time that he left her in part because he had a dream that she checked him into a nursing home, left him in a wheelchair in a dirty diaper, and was spending all his money. How sad is that? But his mental health situation is NOT improving, it is only growing worse and his depression is profound. And poor guy, he thinks marrying her is going to make him feel better. I know there is an element of personal responsibility and accountability to his actions, but all I see are the actions of a sick man. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 

I know I sound like a softie and pathetic.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Wazza said:


> Affairs are not always about crotch. People get lonely. Slopes get slippery. Boundaries get compromised, and all of a sudden a line is crossed.


I agree about slippery slopes, but it never happens all of a sudden, at least not to 


Wazza said:


> Someone who believes marriage is for life, and is trying to honour that,


While I do believe that that kind of people may get tempted and give in to temptation, what I reject is your image of someone fighting to resist. If people actually fought to resist there would be very few affairs. What actually makes temptation so successful is that you get in situations that you are confident you can control and it builds slowly from there (not all of a sudden), and when you actually cross the boundary, you're not fighting it at all. 



Wazza said:


> Where did I say that?


When you wrote hating/blaming. I agree with you on the hating part, but blame stays where it belongs, if one is to be held accountable...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Intellectually I get that. But emotionally, I feel replaced, abandoned, and tossed under the bus. That's not right. My h should be talking to me about what needs of his are NOT being met, not going out to meet them with someone else while trying to string me along. Yes, he ate cake, but he's about to find that the plate is emptying fast. And the OW who reappeared has done so in part, I'm convinced, just to prove she could win, to prove she could steal him from me. She totally believes that he cheated with her because of things that were wrong in our marriage or wrong with me. She thinks she's rescuing him. He played the victim card. And she herself was cheated on by her first husband. She's trying to prove something to herself by landing this big catch, and he's a big fish in a small pond of her family, the BMOC whose chest swells with pride about fitting into this ******* family with the drunk daughter/sister they're trying to unload. So he in turn is rescuing her from food stamps and government-sponsored day care for the kid she had to trap another guy like him but who was smarter and didn't fall for it. Neither one of them understand consequences for behavior.
> 
> I guess the question is, for 13 of the 20 years I've known this guy, I never would have dreamed this would be the outcome of our relationship. Surgery and an inept urologist changed him 7 years ago and he's never been the same since. I'm in over my head and I have let him go, the divorce is underway, and he'll marry her. But I just shake my head sometimes and say, what the hell happened??? Whatever I did or didn't do in our marriage, I didn't do anything to cause or deserve THIS!



Damn, I really feel for you here. You need to keep in mind that you can only control yourself. You can't fix what is broken deep inside your husband. Only he can do this, and only he can have a desire to fix himself. From your posts I can see you are a very caring person and lived this man deeply. But things beyond your control have taken over him. Not the OW but also his health issues, his depression, and his fear of self reflecting which has made him to try to run. The problem there is that he can't outrun himself. At some point he will need to decide to either get help or stop running. 

Your husband is a shell of what and who he was, and it will only get worse from here. His foolish idea that replacing you with the OW is the answer to all his problems. This is a very short feeling, and then he will be back in the same place. You are correct it is like watching a train wreck in slow motion, but you are helpless to stop the train. None if this is your fault, and believe me I've had the same feelings as you, and it took a long time for me to realize my wife was broken and my tool box was empty to help her.

I accepted the fact that I own half the marriage problems, but I own none of the fact that my wife decided to cheat. My wife never consulted me on having an affair. Therefore her choice to cheat is hers and hers alone. I work on my issues in the marriage, I struggle each day, but I work on issues I have control of, and that's me. I am in IC, I am intensively working on myself, and I will become better. I will be a better me, I am working on being the best me that I can be. Yes that sounds silly, but that is what I need to do to recover and heal. So please don't think your husband is doing anything because of you, or claims that you didn't do, his cheating is on him squarely. 

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Thank you, drifting. Yes, even when he marries her, it will still be him in that marriage, or the shell of him. They fight, he has been arrested for choking her (and that's not the only time he's done it), he fears she will shoot him in his sleep in a drunken rage. OR he lied to me about the drama, which I doubt. One or the other of them is going to die or go to prison or both. How in the hell is it possible that he cheated on ME and put himself in this position and doesn't seem to want to get out and I feel sorry for HIM? I'm pretty sure she has her own mental health issues, and they are mirror images of each other. I really wish I could get closure and say be well, be happy, thanks for all the good times, Godspeed, but I'm just not there yet.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> Intellectually I get that. But emotionally, I feel replaced, abandoned, and tossed under the bus. That's not right. My h should be talking to me about what needs of his are NOT being met, not going out to meet them with someone else while trying to string me along. Yes, he ate cake, but he's about to find that the plate is emptying fast. And the OW who reappeared has done so in part, I'm convinced, just to prove she could win, to prove she could steal him from me. She totally believes that he cheated with her because of things that were wrong in our marriage or wrong with me. She thinks she's rescuing him. He played the victim card. And she herself was cheated on by her first husband. She's trying to prove something to herself by landing this big catch, and he's a big fish in a small pond of her family, the BMOC whose chest swells with pride about fitting into this ******* family with the drunk daughter/sister they're trying to unload. So he in turn is rescuing her from food stamps and government-sponsored day care for the kid she had to trap another guy like him but who was smarter and didn't fall for it. Neither one of them understand consequences for behavior.
> 
> I guess the question is, for 13 of the 20 years I've known this guy, I never would have dreamed this would be the outcome of our relationship. Surgery and an inept urologist changed him 7 years ago and he's never been the same since. I'm in over my head and I have let him go, the divorce is underway, and he'll marry her. But I just shake my head sometimes and say, what the hell happened??? Whatever I did or didn't do in our marriage, I didn't do anything to cause or deserve THIS!


Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet with him leaving you and he is in the center ring of a circus. DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> Thank you, drifting. Yes, even when he marries her, it will still be him in that marriage, or the shell of him. They fight, he has been arrested for choking her (and that's not the only time he's done it), he fears she will shoot him in his sleep in a drunken rage. OR he liked to me about the drama, which I doubt. One or the other of them is going to die or go to prison or both. How in the hell is it possible that he cheated on ME and put himself in this position and doesn't seem to want to get out and I feel sorry for HIM? I'm pretty sure she has her own mental health issues, and they are mirror images of each other. I really wish I could get closure and say be well, be happy, thanks for all the good times, Godspeed, but I'm just not there yet.


If you are actually already feeling sorry for HIM, you are way ahead of the game.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TeddieG said:


> MattMatt, yeah, you're probably right. I've tried to take the high road and continue to try to understand his struggles and his mental health issue (bi polar) and be kind and loving, but I am starting to struggle with the issue of his personal responsibility. He is being used and manipulated by his OW who just wants his money and his health insurance, but there is a very significant level of mental health and physical health problems (he shows signs of dementia from time to time). The bottom line is, I stuck things out with him because I wanted to see if, as he addressed his physical issues, like his blood pressure, heart condition, possible prostate cancer, poor circulation, over time his mental health condition would improve. He told me one time that he left her in part because he had a dream that she checked him into a nursing home, left him in a wheelchair in a dirty diaper, and was spending all his money. How sad is that? But his mental health situation is NOT improving, it is only growing worse and his depression is profound. And poor guy, he thinks marrying her is going to make him feel better. I know there is an element of personal responsibility and accountability to his actions, but all I see are the actions of a sick man. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
> 
> I know I sound like a softie and pathetic.


No. You are a decent person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Well I don't have blind trust anymore and that is a good thing.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> If you are actually already feeling sorry for HIM, you are way ahead of the game.


Thank you Dude, I appreciate that. It makes me feel less pathetic.

And thanks, MattMatt.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Thank you Dude, I appreciate that. It makes me feel less pathetic.
> 
> And thanks, MattMatt.




I was going to ask why you feel pathetic and then it hit me. The feeling of why, how could you, what made you decide this, and I can't believe I didn't see this coming? I've only read your posts here, and I'm in agreement you dodged a bullet. This may seem harsh or uncaring, but in a years time I bet you send her a Thank You card. I say that in a caring way but your husband has too much going against him. And not everything was brought upon by himself, he had no choice in his medical issues. 

The dementia will worsen with time and add in the bi-polar diagnosis and they will accelerate in time. This may actually turn out to be a blessing for you that you find a man who will love and cherish you the way you want to be loved and cherished. Your posts are palpable with your pain and yet your caring and witty banter also shines through. I think you will end up just fine as long as you continue to detach and understand there is nothing you could have done. His medical issues alone were devastating to him, and his weak character brought him to take it out on you. Please understand the man you married and loved is gone, some for medical issues and others for pure ignorance. 

I wish you the best of luck and stay strong, better days are ahead for you.


ETA: you are not pathetic, you just happened to marry someone who is not the same caliber person that you are.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I was going to ask why you feel pathetic and then it hit me. The feeling of why, how could you, what made you decide this, and I can't believe I didn't see this coming? I've only read your posts here, and I'm in agreement you dodged a bullet. This may seem harsh or uncaring, but in a years time I bet you send her a Thank You card. I say that in a caring way but your husband has too much going against him. And not everything was brought upon by himself, he had no choice in his medical issues.
> 
> The dementia will worsen with time and add in the bi-polar diagnosis and they will accelerate in time. This may actually turn out to be a blessing for you that you find a man who will love and cherish you the way you want to be loved and cherished. Your posts are palpable with your pain and yet your caring and witty banter also shines through. I think you will end up just fine as long as you continue to detach and understand there is nothing you could have done. His medical issues alone were devastating to him, and his weak character brought him to take it out on you. Please understand the man you married and loved is gone, some for medical issues and others for pure ignorance.
> 
> ...


You're very kind, and I appreciate your compassion. I arrived here late in my saga but I think I got here just in time. The man I loved is gone and I tried hard to help him get himself back, but he didn't want to. His parents and family are 1200 miles away and they were counting on me to take care of him and be there for him, and they have NO clue how far gone he is. But that Friday afternoon on my brother's back porch, after we had buried my mother, and he couldn't resist the OW's text (and I'm sure she hacked his email and saw an email of condolence from his mother and couldn't wait to jack him up and take him from me) and by 9 pm he was on the phone with her for two hours. I think that did me in. And I am glad it did. 

Thanks again for your kindness and your recognition and affirmation of my pain.  I needed that today.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I was going to ask why you feel pathetic and then it hit me. The feeling of why, how could you, what made you decide this, and I can't believe I didn't see this coming? I've only read your posts here, and I'm in agreement you dodged a bullet. This may seem harsh or uncaring, but in a years time I bet you send her a Thank You card. I say that in a caring way but your husband has too much going against him. And not everything was brought upon by himself, he had no choice in his medical issues.
> 
> The dementia will worsen with time and add in the bi-polar diagnosis and they will accelerate in time. This may actually turn out to be a blessing for you that you find a man who will love and cherish you the way you want to be loved and cherished. Your posts are palpable with your pain and yet your caring and witty banter also shines through. I think you will end up just fine as long as you continue to detach and understand there is nothing you could have done. His medical issues alone were devastating to him, and his weak character brought him to take it out on you. Please understand the man you married and loved is gone, some for medical issues and others for pure ignorance.
> 
> ...


The only thing that bothers me is what he said about the dream he had, where she put him in a nursing home, left him in a wheelchair and in a dirty diaper, and was out spending his money. No matter how bad he is, I hate to think of the hell and the suffering of what he's got coming up, but no one can talk him out of it. And I am sure the real him, the remnant of the smart sweet guy in there, knows what's coming and is probably scared to death. 

But I can't do anything about it. And I've lost my influence with him.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Guess what I've learned in life, Its IMPOSSIBLE to save people from THEMSELVES. Humans are self-destructive by nature and you are witnessing it first hand.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Guess what I've learned in life, Its IMPOSSIBLE to save people from THEMSELVES. Humans are self-destructive by nature and you are witnessing it first hand.


True dat, Dude. Thanks for saying it out loud. I've been feeling it. I've been watching it. But giving it words has been hard. Thank you!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TeddieG said:


> Thank you Dude, I appreciate that. It makes me feel less pathetic.
> 
> And thanks, MattMatt.


That's OK. You are most welcome.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TeddieG said:


> You're very kind, and I appreciate your compassion. I arrived here late in my saga but I think I got here just in time. The man I loved is gone and I tried hard to help him get himself back, but he didn't want to. His parents and family are 1200 miles away and they were counting on me to take care of him and be there for him, and they have NO clue how far gone he is. But that Friday afternoon on my brother's back porch, after we had buried my mother, and he couldn't resist the OW's text (and I'm sure she hacked his email and saw an email of condolence from his mother and couldn't wait to jack him up and take him from me) and by 9 pm he was on the phone with her for two hours. I think that did me in. And I am glad it did.
> 
> Thanks again for your kindness and your recognition and affirmation of my pain.  I needed that today.


He has dementia? 

That can seriously mess with someone's personality. It happened to a neighbour of mine. He was only 40 when he got early onset alzheimer's.

By the time he was 50 he had to be housed in a secure psychiatric unit and his wife and children were banned from seeing him as he would be disturbed and violent for days afterwards.

His wife was sanguine about it. She told me: "I'd rather remember him as he was. But he doesn't exist anymore."


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> He has dementia?
> 
> That can seriously mess with someone's personality. It happened to a neighbour of mine. He was only 40 when he got early onset alzheimer's.
> 
> ...


He has symptoms of dementia, and has had, sporadically, but increasingly. For example, in June of 2008 I took him to dinner at one of our favorite restaurants for his birthday, and he looked across the table at me as if he didn't know who I was and a look of panic overcame him for a split second. The same thing happened in our living room a couple of times. That could have been affair fog but I'm pretty sure it is worse than that. And this weekend, on the way to, and returning from, my mother's funeral . . . on the way to, we went through a town where we'd stayed and had a nice weekend getaway, and he said, as we approached the town (which starts with an S), look there's our hotel!! And then on the way back, passing through the same town, he said, hey, all these times you've driven this way, have you ever stopped at town S? I'm like, really, are you kidding me? 

His grandfather had it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> The only thing that bothers me is what he said about the dream he had, where she put him in a nursing home, left him in a wheelchair and in a dirty diaper, and was out spending his money. No matter how bad he is, I hate to think of the hell and the suffering of what he's got coming up, but no one can talk him out of it. And I am sure the real him, the remnant of the smart sweet guy in there, knows what's coming and is probably scared to death.
> 
> But I can't do anything about it. And I've lost my influence with him.



I didn't want to go into too much detail, but to say nicely, who you met fell in love with and married is gone. This is him now, and I'm so sorry to say it will get much worse. My grandmother was a very sweet and loving person, when dementia set in neither one of us knew who we were. She had fallen and broke her hip, had a hip replacement and I sat with her all night holding her hand. At three in the morning she squeezed my hand so hard the knuckles cracked. She stood in bed screaming this God awful curdling scream. Nurses came running in and in the attempt to lay her done she grabbed my little finger. I'll be damned if she didn't jerk it back and forth and when I got my hand free my finger was bent at 90 degrees to the left. She dislocated my finger at the age of ninety two! 

She got more violent until she passed two years later. Now she only suffered from dementia, add in bi-polar and watch out. He will become a violent man for sure. I'm sorry to have to tell you this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I didn't want to go into too much detail, but to say nicely, who you met fell in love with and married is gone. This is him now, and I'm so sorry to say it will get much worse. My grandmother was a very sweet and loving person, when dementia set in neither one of us knew who we were. She had fallen and broke her hip, had a hip replacement and I sat with her all night holding her hand. At three in the morning she squeezed my hand so hard the knuckles cracked. She stood in bed screaming this God awful curdling scream. Nurses came running in and in the attempt to lay her done she grabbed my little finger. I'll be damned if she didn't jerk it back and forth and when I got my hand free my finger was bent at 90 degrees to the left. She dislocated my finger at the age of ninety two!
> 
> She got more violent until she passed two years later. Now she only suffered from dementia, add in bi-polar and watch out. He will become a violent man for sure. I'm sorry to have to tell you this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. It explains his violence toward her. He's never lifted a finger to me and rarely raises his voice. He gets angry, but he keeps in, feeding the depression. I wonder if there is more going on with him physically than he has even let on at this point. 

Anyway, thank you. I was sort of getting what you were saying, but my h has never been violent, ever. Yeah, this guy is not him. 

Thanks.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

convert said:


> Well I don't have blind trust anymore and that is a good thing.


Agreed...

Call me callus, After 35 years of Marriage, the last 6+ in R, I will never trust anyone, anything, anyway... "blindly" again. MM asked the question not me. "Nobody's the same after?" 

Yep, regardless of R or D, regardless of forgiveness, regardless of moving on, regardless of loss of innocence, regardless of "waking up to reality", regardless of WHY?... It really doesn't matter, your fault, my fault... you are never the same person.

Trust No One.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Thank you. It explains his violence toward her. He's never lifted a finger to me and rarely raises his voice. He gets angry, but he keeps in, feeding the depression. I wonder if there is more going on with him physically than he has even let on at this point.
> 
> Anyway, thank you. I was sort of getting what you were saying, but my h has never been violent, ever. Yeah, this guy is not him.
> 
> Thanks.




I guess now you understand why I agreed that you dodged a bullet. One of the worst things with people with bi-polar is once they take the medications and become "better" they feel they can stop taking the medication. The problem with that is they become unpredictable, have psychosis, manic, and agitated. It becomes worse with time and with dementia on the doorstep, the man you knew is gone forever. He may show signs of his old self but this is fleeting. 

Your husband wasn't this way with you, and for several reasons, you have stood by him and he knows this. His family has entrusted you to watch over him, these are the only people he trusts deeply. Not to say he won't show anger or rage with you but they typically become physical to people they don't trust so much. His parents would be a different story as they are authority figures to him, and authority figures are not who you want to be. He would become physical with them but not you or his siblings usually. Now don't take this as gospel but this is what I have noticed working with them day in and day out. The more severe or longer they are off medication the higher the risk of a physical altercation. 

The OW is in a bad spot but does not realize this yet. Once he chokes her out and she awakens (hopefully) will she realize how bad of a spot she's in. I'm sorry to share my encounters with you but this is not going to change. This doesn't make this easier for you at all but hopefully you find solace in the years you had together. It's not something you can fix, nor is it easy to let go, so I'll pray for you that you find peace and happiness soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Neither the cheater or the victim.
> 
> Cheaters know they are rotten in some way, betrayed spouses know that, somehow, they failed, that they weren't man enough or woman enough for the spouse who cheated on them.
> 
> ...


........my wife ...in NO WAY .....thinks she's rotten ....in any way, shape, or form. And that bothers the crap out of me to no end. 

......nothing is the same in the aftermath ....ever ....nor can it be. I can't even look at a sunset and find something pleasurable about it. It just seems that the "glasses that you look at life through are smudged, cloudy, or cracked.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I guess now you understand why I agreed that you dodged a bullet. One of the worst things with people with bi-polar is once they take the medications and become "better" they feel they can stop taking the medication. The problem with that is they become unpredictable, have psychosis, manic, and agitated. It becomes worse with time and with dementia on the doorstep, the man you knew is gone forever. He may show signs of his old self but this is fleeting.
> 
> Your husband wasn't this way with you, and for several reasons, you have stood by him and he knows this. His family has entrusted you to watch over him, these are the only people he trusts deeply. Not to say he won't show anger or rage with you but they typically become physical to people they don't trust so much. His parents would be a different story as they are authority figures to him, and authority figures are not who you want to be. He would become physical with them but not you or his siblings usually. Now don't take this as gospel but this is what I have noticed working with them day in and day out. The more severe or longer they are off medication the higher the risk of a physical altercation.
> 
> ...


Thank you, drifting on. I do hope she wakes up someday and sees what a bad spot she's in. She wants his retirement check but when she has to institutionalize him, that's where all his money will go. H told me once about the way she used to insist that he go to her brother's house and help with her bro's honey-do projects. He said he would spend every day for a week over there because she didn't want him around during the day. She wants him around at night, when she's drunk and wants to pass out on the couch and someone has to feed her 10-year-old and make sure the kid does his homework. H has told me about how she humiliates the kid if he drops something on the floor while he's eating. He's told me all kinds of horror stories. There have been times when I wondered if he was consigning himself to a form of hell because he thought he deserves it. 

But I really appreciate your point that he'll be violent with someone he doesn't trust as much. Thank you for your wise insight. I appreciate it, more than you know. I have known there were pieces of this puzzle that I was intuiting but not seeing. Thanks again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ........my wife ...in NO WAY .....thinks she's rotten ....in any way, shape, or form. And that bothers the crap out of me to no end.
> 
> ......nothing is the same in the aftermath ....ever ....nor can it be. I can't even look at a sunset and find something pleasurable about it. It just seems that the "glasses that you look at life through are smudged, cloudy, or cracked.


This sounds like it has transmogrified into a general depression, which is quite common. (It happened to me.)

I think a visit to your doctor and arranging some counselling, Several flavours of Talking Therapy are helpful.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

I guess I was on the other side of TeddieG's story. First, like MM's wife I'm an ASC/ASD (ASPIE) but I was undiagnosed for most of my life. I was just plain hard to live with and as I look back over a 40 year marriage, deduct a 4 year separation, there were times when I would have had to improve to be an A'hole. Paradoxically, I am a loyal A'hole and once I commit I am all in and in to the end (I am what in my culture is called a "Bitter Ender"). In those 40 years, apart or not I have never given up on my marriage. Then my kidneys started to fail, my blood was toxic and it took a toll.

Living with an ASPIE, I am told, is like being in a marriage by yourself, now imagine that self centered fellow is now stubborn, self-destructive, depressed and not thinking straight. I have an IQ of 179, an Honours Degree, Bach. of Education and a Masters in History, graduating with 4.0. I was lost, sleepy irritable and insisting that I needed to stay at work. (I am a union steward and we were in a fight over Pensions we couldn't afford to loose). The nephrologists told my wife I was dying and that given my mind set all she could do was nurse me till I died. 

She was alone, with an SOB hell bent on dying and doing it stupid. She got an email from a guy she had dated and slept with while we were separated. She was so crushed by the life she was leading that she used him and sex as a way to escape and he used her. She says it was for escape and sex, but from what I have read of their texts, I believe there was more there than she admitted. She said her time with him was the only time she felt like herself and human.

From late 2010 to mid 2011 she would drop me at work, drop me at Dr. appointments and then go to see him for a couple of hours, then go home and be there when I got in. I was clueless, wouldn't have been able to put the pieces together, but now I see.

I finally clued in, started dialysis, began working on my self and loosing weight. In the mean time her lover had a sudden, massive and painful heart attack on his daughter's birthday.

I started to regain myself, I was diagnosed as ASC/ASD and my life started to make sense. I would never have known about the affair but my computer gliched and I did a system restore and found files containing pictures of them going at it and texts of their sex talk and arranging to hook up. 

Bang, in the forehead and a storm of old red flags went round my head. I confronted my wife and she did the usual WS shuffle, denying, misdirecting and minimizing, but now she was dealing with a healthier person. She cracked. She admitted that since her life was reduced to taking care of me and trying to hold it together while I died she thought, why not. She figured I would never know because I would be dead and it would help her deal with it. Her therapist told her that it was good she was doing something for herself.

There are just too many things I will never know about the affair and my wife is too broken by guilt, shame and self-loathing that I can't do much but help her through therapy and rebuild. She is not the victim and she admits it and she struggles to make it right and heal. He died and I can never get closure.

We are a year and half beyond D-Day, 4 years from the affair and I am haunted by the ghosts of the affair. I don't see the pictures anymore, but I feel them. I trigger, I rage sometimes but its getting better. It is something I think about every day, sometimes to the point of feeling ill. I have started to forgive, but I will never forget and I will always doubt. 

I have a clear enough idea about what happened and I truly understand why she did what she did and how she came to be where she was back then. I am also aware of the decisions I made and why I was doing what I was doing. My therapist calls me the most self aware ASPIE she has ever met. I have some guilt for the things I put my wife through and things that I did and decisions I made when I was beyond making decisions at all. She could no more leave me as I was dying as I can leave her while she tries to pull herself together. I love her, I pity her and I owe her.

I have grown, learned and become stronger. I struggle every day to keep mindful of the ASPIE things I do and try not to do them. I try to treat my wife gently, with kindness and with emotions I do not feel but can only mimic. I must remind myself that she hurts too and that she loves me. I would rather not know what I know now. Am I lucky that I don't have a full range of emotional response and don't feel the pain like a normal might, I don't think so. What I feel is god awful.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Wow, thinkitthrough, I am so sorry what you've both been through. I had a boss who is an Aspie, a professor, and he is very focused and narrow in his area of specialty. I worked for him for five years when he was the director of an academic program, and his son was really difficult, further along the spectrum of autism than my boss (I think there is no separate diagnosis of Asperger's anymore, it is just considered along the spectrum of high-functioning autism). My boss would get so frustrated when his son would walk out of his high school class because someone said something disparaging about his favorite video game. One night h and I were at my boss's house for dinner and as the four of us prepared it and chatted, the high-school aged son came down the stairs in a fit of rage because he couldn't find the dice for one of his boardgames, so his mother had to drop what she was doing and go help him and calm him. 

I'm so sorry for your suffering and the suffering of your wife. I teach religion, and am always reminded of one of the primary teachings of the Buddha, that all of life is dukkha (suffering), and I am constantly reminded that everyone carries their bag of very heavy bricks. My heart goes out to you and your wife. I do suspect my h may know at some level how much he has hurt me, but I do not think he has it in him to come home and help me heal from it, so I admire your tenacity, bravery, and commitment. I don't know that I believe in an afterlife and reward and punishment; rather I think that every human being is grabbed up by the throat at some point in their existence by the universe and given the chance the do the ethical and moral thing, and a life can be redeemed if that opportunity is taken, even if it is a struggle.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Nobody's the same after an affair


I am not the same you are right Matt. What changed with me?
Well before the affair, I believed that she was 100% loyal to me and would die before she betrayed me. After her affair that changed. I eventually was determined to be as self-sufficient as possible so that I could not ever be hurt that deep again. Was it self-protection? Sure it was!

I started getting more self-sufficient and looking to other family members for an emotional connection. My highest admiration for my wife was reduced permanently. After many years I have adjusted to a less than a great marriage and settled for an average, to good, to very good at times.

I may have felt like I just was not good enough for her in the very beginning but if I did it was not a real strong thought or did it last a long time. I know I could have been a better husband and that had me bringing her flowers and paying a lot of attention to her in the first few months after the affair but when the affair escalated to a PA I took a much stronger stance and was ready to give her up. She came crawling back and I made her prove her remorse for over 4 years before I remarried her.

It has been over 20 years and I have changed in that I see her as weak and I no longer have that fairy tale idea about her 100% dedicated to me and lost the potential for me to have a real high admiration for her. However, I still have a certain love for her that probably will never go away.

I finally concluded that her affair was mostly about her weakness and had very little to do with me as a poor husband. I could have done better prior to the affair but my short comings were not even close to a good excuse for her action of betrayal. Her affair was a terrible failing and caused permanent damage but despite the affair she has a lot of other good points! I never bring up the affair to her as she has suffered greatly by her own actions for her betrayal of the whole family.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> *I finally concluded that her affair was mostly about her weakness and had very little to do with me as a poor husband. I could have done better prior to the affair but my short comings were not even close to a good excuse for her action of betrayal.*


Love that line @Mr Blunt


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

TeddieG: Thank you for your kind words. Funny, as I sit here now, I don't see it as a struggle I have gone through, its just my life. Given the option, I would have preferred not to know how I have hurt my wife and other people, especially the part about finding a way to be empathetic and sincere. Those parts are hidden deep. It also means that I have to work to understand and forgive what she has done and forgive myself. 

I don't know you TeddieG but you sound like a really neat person. I hope that your H figures it out and starts to work on it. You have earned healing and someone to help you through. I would hate to be him, waking up one day, alone and finally seeing what he lost.

Mr. Blunt: I have always marvelled at the clear headed and direct way you say things. You make difficult issues understandable. I agree with you that for all that is wrong in a marriage the option to have an ea/pa is an option without excuse or justification. My wife was severely challenged, but rather than cope she weakened. 

The experience of facing ones spouse's betrayal and surviving it, in reconciliation or divorce, is one best looked back upon. In the moment there is nothing good or redeeming about it until it is done.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

"I finally concluded that her affair was mostly about her weakness and had very little to do with me as a poor husband. I could have done better prior to the affair but my short comings were not even close to a good excuse for her action of betrayal."

QFT!! Thanks for the graphic, Truthseeker1!

"The experience of facing ones spouse's betrayal and surviving it, in reconciliation or divorce, is one best looked back upon. In the moment there is nothing good or redeeming about it until it is done."

Indeed, thinkitthrough. Thank you.


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## scout76 (Jul 2, 2015)

I know I'm late in joining this thread, but as I read it, so much of what has been said is exactly how I've been feeling. How do you ever get over the fact that the one person in the whole world that you've loved with your whole heart has cared so little for you that they not only had an affair but were so close to leaving you? I've done and given everything to my husband. I've been an excellent wife, and because we had extra stress for years with five children, finances, and jobs, he couldn't deal and had a crisis and had an affair. How can a person be so selfish? I will never understand it. I know better, but I do occasionally think that if I was blonde or skinnier or went to the tanning bed or tattooed he wouldn't have strayed. I know I will never get over this, only maybe get past it. He couldn't have hurt me more if he had stabbed me.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Sorry to hear of your pain, Scout, but you will find lots of people here with similar experience, comforting words, and wise insights.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

My WS ex H will never be the same, because he'll never be able to believe again that he's the perfect person he thought he was.

I'll never be the same because I'll never be able to have 100%, ironclad trust in a man again.

My ex was married for two years and divorced for a year and a half before we met. He was divorced because his wife left him for another man. A year and a half later, he was still on considerable pain, or so I thought, about the experience.

I thought if anyone could be faithful, it was this man.

He thinks that because he was supposedly faithful for 25 years before he finally faltered, he should get some kind of credit.

Apparently he is capable of neither empathy nor sympathy.

But I digress.

I don't believe that people change. I don't think he became the kind of person who was capable of cheating over many years because I was lacking in some way. I think he always was. And I don't think I became strong and brave because I made it through the Hell he gave me - I made it through because I was strong and brave.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Had his first wife not got the infidelity in first who knows? Maybe he'd have cheated on her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm certain he would have, given time.

All I ever heard about her was negative stuff. Because he thought it was what I wanted to hear. I even said to him that surely, she must have had some positive characteristics in order for him to want to marry her.

His GF must think I'm a monster. And yet, we were together for 27 years. Not 2. Had a child together. Have a pretty amicable co-parenting relationship, even though she's living with him, now.

Such a victim he was.

Like Teddie said about her H, I don't think he knows what love is. Except self-love. He's got that in spades. Or he did, until he had to face the fact that he's deeply, deeply flawed. That must be the biggest heartbreaking loss of a relationship of his life.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

REALITY!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I tend to view this issue from a different perspective. After the discovery of my wife's affair, I did a lot of hard thinking and came up with a few ideas. I thought that it could go several different ways. 1. I could move forward with my life, independent of my wife. 2. I could try to reconcile, with all of the baggage that entails. 3. I could divorce, but dwell in the past and feel sorry for myself. I chose the first, and have never regretted it. Like everybody else, I have moments of self doubt and weakness, but if you consciously choose to focus on the future, you will find that these moments are few.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

Feel like this all the time . Hope it passes someday.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Nomorebeans said:


> He thinks that because he was supposedly faithful for 25 years before he finally faltered, he* should get some kind of credit.
> *


*
*
Yep, got the same line from WS a few days from DD. "25 years, I was a faithful wife." At the time it reminded me of someone talking at achieving Tenure on the job.

In retrospect, probably just another silly attempt at "built-up" justification... more cheater script to add to the list.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RWB said:


> REALITY!


Heck! That reminds me! I have got to go buy some US$ for my trip to San Francisco next week!


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