# Wash, rinse, repeat



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

All of these threads are the same. 

Same story, played out with different people, devastating outcomes.

We can pretty much copy/paste all of our answers to the newbies. 

I was thinking today... for the ones that reconciled--do you think you're more damaged in the long run since you stayed and that resentment is always there, somewhere, biting in the back? Or are you happier now? Really, truly happier? 

All of these stories are the same....it's like De Ja Vu day in and day out.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> I was thinking today... for the ones that reconciled--do you think you're more damaged in the long run since you stayed and that resentment is always there, somewhere, biting in the back? Or are you happier now? Really, truly happier?


Yes we are. My marriage was in steady decline for several years. It wasn't until the marriage hit crisis mode that serious change and work were put into it for recovery. Since then my wife and I have operated at a higher level of communication, empathy and compassion that then we had for a long time. In some facets, higher than ever. Our love and compassion for each other is deeper because we stepped away from that cliff where we almost lost each other. It's the old adage, you don't know what you've got until you've lost it. Luckily and with a lot of effort, we found it again.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Hi JB ~

I am convinced that what do when your marriage is falling apart is a gamble. 

Absolutely NO ONE can predict the outcome. 

There is a tremendous amout of factors that will determine the success and downfall: lenghth of marriage, finances, children, childhood baggage, infidelity.......

You are correct, the stories all seem to have a common denominators: pain, sadness, hope, happiness, hurt, rejection, anxiety...........

I'm afraid that as long as there are people living on the Earth, there will always be the "wash, rinse and repeat" syndrom.


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## Berilo (Aug 2, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> All of these stories are the same....it's like De Ja Vu day in and day out.


Since we're reading them, one might say it's "déjà lu"! (Sorry, French language joke.)


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I guess I don't mind the repetitiveness, I get more frustration seeing people making the same mistakes or keeping themselves stuck in limbo and just can't find the strength to do what's needed.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I think some of the best wisdom on here for waywards and betrayeds is that "the marriage you had is over." When it was first said to me here I didn't understand it but it is so true. Post D Day the marriage in front of a couple can be one of three things - better, worse, or over; but, it cannot be what it was before. Which of the three the new marriage becomes is totally determined by the two people involved, the strength of their commitment to each other and the degree of the betrayal involved. As we know from being here the odds of coming out on the other side better are slim, but I think it does happen. I hope it does.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> All of these threads are the same.
> 
> Same story, played out with different people, devastating outcomes.
> 
> ...


There are only so many thematic variations that can play out: spouse leaves, spouse is having an affair, spouse is having an EA only, spouse left for another of opposite sex, spouse left for somebody of their same sex, and so on.

Spouse in affair is not thinking of consequences, and I am stuck thinking about past and nothing but bad consequences, and so on, and so on.

As for your resentment question... if you stay stuck in the past reliving every hurt real or perceived, then you likely have bigger problems than just your marriage.

You learn from the past, you live in the present, and you plan for your future. You can't live in the past, learn from the future and plan for the present 

So stuff happened... but what did you learn? You learn and you move on either together or separately.

What would suck would be not learning


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

I am truly happier...no resentment at all. I'm not "damaged" in anyway...all is repaired.

I guess I might be an anomaly here...I don't know. I can honestly say that everything is great.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I was thinking today... for the ones that reconciled--do you think you're more damaged in the long run since you stayed and that resentment is always there, somewhere, biting in the back? Or are you happier now? Really, truly happier?


wait...don't we have a thread on this already? 

:lol:


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## Tullip (Apr 21, 2011)

We definitely have a "new marriage" and it is DEFINITELY a lot better and happier post d-day. We lived apart for 1 yr and to be honest it was probably one of the best yrs of my life. It allowed for me to reconnect with who I really was and to let go of the person I thought I was, while living in disconnected marriage. I became alive again and found my inner voice. And he too truly changed and that is why I chose to reconcile. 
Like I said, our marriage is the best it has ever been (on all levels) however; the memories do not go away. I don't dwell in them nor live in the past. But there are days, I think about how his affair changed our marriage and how I will never look at him the same way (not to say that is a bad thing). We have only been back together 1 yr. I still feel there is something getting in the way of me not being able to fully love him like I once did....but hopefully in time that will change.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
_Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina, Chapter 1, first line_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ Runs, I have had that book FOREVER and have never read it. I know. Lame. 



VeryHurt said:


> You are correct, the stories all seem to have a common denominators: pain, sadness, hope, happiness, hurt, rejection, anxiety...........


Yes



Berilo said:


> Since we're reading them, one might say it's "déjà lu"! (Sorry, French language joke.)






Almostrecovered said:


> I guess I don't mind the repetitiveness, I get more frustration seeing people making the same mistakes or keeping themselves stuck in limbo and just can't find the strength to do what's needed.


There is no greater hell than Limbo.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

While there is a lot of repetition, they don't all end up in the same place. Many do, but not all. So we hope to save just some of them, or at least reduce the length of the pain by laying out the proper steps.

I agree with others that you have to think of it as a new marriage.

In my case, ours was deteriorating slowly for a long time. My W's EA really was a huge wake up call, a painful one, however. If we stay in R and make it through all of this, I will always look back at that email she sent the OM as the thing that really turned everything around, despite how awful it was.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I always find it interesting that some couples can and do reconcile post-fidelity and for some, it's the death knell. No do overs.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

some people find out that what drew them together was what they hated about one another.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That's true, too.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I always find it interesting that some couples can and do reconcile post-fidelity and for some, it's the death knell. No do overs.


why is this surprising? We all have our own breaking points


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> why is this surprising? We all have our own breaking points



Quite right...also both have to be fully committed to the reconciliation. I see so many spouses (usually the victim) trying while the other one is just going through the motions.

It's really sad. No matter what the person does the other spouse just doesn't care enough to try.

It's even sadder when that (trying) spouse just will not wake up to the fact that they are the only ones trying. They have to be willing to D if necessary...and move on. There is nothing worse than staying with someone who doesn't care.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> why is this surprising?


I didn't say it was 'surprising.' I said it was interesting. And it is interesting to me.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I want mod powers to edit your post so I can be right


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Jelly, 

A man I once knew from work was discussing his decision to leave his WW. He told us that he believed she was genuine in her remorse and desire to rebuild their marriage. He wavered, but claimed that one day he knew it was time to move on. He had the realization that she chose another man over him, made her husband the plan B. Broke her vows and all that, but the realizing that he was second choice, is when he knew to file.

That's what cheating spouses essentially do. Some regret it, like you while others don't. This realization from him helped make the decision clear to him, so he said. Didn't matter that she wished she hadn't done it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Gabriel said:


> My W's EA really was a huge wake up call, a painful one, however. If we stay in R and make it through all of this, I will always look back at that email she sent the OM as the thing that really turned everything around, despite how awful it was.


:iagree: 100%

As painful as it was it was what I needed to really look at myself and my marriage. I've always termed it as a shot over the bow. Still painful to think that that POSOM was a factor in bringing things to a head between my wife and me. 

But I guess, if you want to heal, you need to find the cancer and cut it out.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

The theme doesn't vary too much, it's how you and your SO deal with the situation that matters...everyone has a story to tell..there are a lot of similarities but a lot of differences, too. If every situation was exactly the same, then there wouldn't be much need for these forums.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

HappyAtLast said:


> The theme doesn't vary too much, it's how you and your SO deal with the situation that matters...everyone has a story to tell..there are a lot of similarities but a lot of differences, too. If every situation was exactly the same, then there wouldn't be much need for these forums.


They are similiar enough that you would think people don't need these forums. Unfortunately, for people going through these things, finding frank and open help turns out to be difficult or expensive or absent venues like this, and everbody is convinced their situation is completely unique when they are first going through it.

They're all unique... like everybody else


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> I see so many spouses (usually the victim) trying while the other one is just going through the motions.
> 
> It's really sad. No matter what the person does the other spouse just doesn't care enough to try..


I believe typically it is (as in my case) the WS has already checked out of the marriage. And because they have perceived problems that went on unchecked for years, they are unwilling to step back in quickly.




Geoffrey Marsh said:


> It's even sadder when that (trying) spouse just will not wake up to the fact that they are the only ones trying. They have to be willing to D if necessary...and move on. There is nothing worse than staying with someone who doesn't care.


My wife always cared but was disconnected from me. How long you go on is any body's guess dependent on the situation. I was very aware that I was the lone participant in actively recovering the marriage. I knew my wife was just in the gallery for a long time. But, being willing to carry on with out progress was just a part of it. She (in her mind) needed to see that I was truly in it for the long haul. Her emotional wall that had been built up over years wasn't going to fall because of a few months of "date nights", increase attentiveness or communications. Is some cases the offended spouse has to carry the ball for awhile, as unfair as that seems.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What I meant by my original post is that it is sad...how all the stories we hear day in and day out are the same theme on here: "My spouse cheated" and the devastating blow that is dealt by that.

It is sad.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> They are similiar enough that you would think people don't need these forums. Unfortunately, for people going through these things, finding frank and open help turns out to be difficult or expensive absent venues like this, and everbody is convinced their situation is completely unique when they are first going through it.
> 
> They're all unique... like everybody else



Exactly, if you have never been through post-affair recovery..it's like your walking on the moon...completely unreal.

For us that have been through post-affair recovery and have chosen to try and help people with our knowledge..the patterns are easily spotted.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

People want to believe we are so individual and unique.

We are more similar than we realize.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> People want to believe we are so individual and unique.
> 
> We are more similar than we realize.


I agree. I brought home an article about "Why women leave." I was at first amazed that my wife had said to me 6 out of 9 'typical' comments from women about to leave. More startling to me was the author writing about the husband's responses, perceptions to all her wanting to leave . . . they were my thoughts exactly (and words too)!

Ahh . . .the human condition.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As I am want to say "It's not what you do, it's who you are.." People don't grow a cheating organ after 'x' years. They don't swallow the blue pill and screw someone else just because. It's in them. It's what they are. That doesn't change.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> As I am want to say "It's not what you do, it's who you are.." People don't grow a cheating organ after 'x' years. They don't swallow the blue pill and screw someone else just because. It's in them. It's what they are. That doesn't change.


I don't believe that. I used to be completely disgusted by cheaters. After countless promises from my H to stop lying, treating me like dirt, and to start showing that he wanted me for more than sex, I became capable of cheating. I was overwhelmed with feelings of needing to be wanted. I needed to know that I deserved to be loved, because he certainly didn't seem to want me. The fact that I am a SAHM probably saved me from cheating. I acknowledged my weakness and was able to shut myself inside the house to avoid improper contact with men. I was a broken person from years of being dismissed by the one person I cared about most. We're all capable, it's just hard to believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I think the biggest challenge is getting people out of their own way.

At it's core, its really so simple. It's either going to work out, or it's not. There is a process which gives you the best chance to have a lasting reconciliation... People just refuse to get out of their own way and follow it.

I was talking with a friend about his wife's infidelity. I was giving him advice on what steps he should take to recover his marriage and common mistakes...

To which he replied...

"There is more than one way to skin a cat"

It left me thinking...

"Yeah, unless it's your cat. If you have to skin your own cat, You better get instructions" 

lol, yeah, my mind is probably bad.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> I don't believe that. I used to be completely disgusted by cheaters. After countless promises from my H to stop lying, treating me like dirt, and to start showing that he wanted me for more than sex, I became capable of cheating. I was overwhelmed with feelings of needing to be wanted. I needed to know that I deserved to be loved, because he certainly didn't seem to want me. The fact that I am a SAHM probably saved me from cheating. I acknowledged my weakness and was able to shut myself inside the house to avoid improper contact with men. I was a broken person from years of being dismissed by the one person I cared about most. We're all capable, it's just hard to believe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree.

I think people have the need to feel loved and wanted.

If they suffer in a loveless marriage, while it's wrong to cheat, every situation is different. 

People can only take so much crap before they snap. Good people, bad people, etc.

We are all capable. The fact is, however, is knowing yourself and keeping yourself in check. This is difficult to do sometimes when in the pit of an abusive/crappy/horrible marriage.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> I believe typically it is (as in my case) the WS has already checked out of the marriage. And because they have perceived problems that went on unchecked for years, they are unwilling to step back in quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is very, very astute, Amp. It's exactly how I felt, and still sometimes feel. We've had our date nights, close moments, feelings of true, deep R. But I know part of her has a foot out the door, because she doesn't quite yet fully trust I will be any better meeting her needs than I was during the dark years. It's reverse trust. Can she trust that the changes I've been making are going to last? Time will tell


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Heh, you don't even need to be treated badly or be ignored.

All you need is poor or weak boundaries.

Notice that WhereAmI said she didn't cheat but not because she wasn't thinking about it. She was a SAHM and didn't put herself in a situation where it was possible.

Are there serial cheaters? Sure. And the 'why' of those can vary.

There are also people who just have lousy boundaries: "it's OK to be friends with my ex girlfriends and talk to them about personal stuff", "it's ok to share personal stuff in an intimate setting with members of the opposite sex other than my family and spouse", blah, blah, blah.

I have seen poor boundaries and "Oooh we are so above that and so sophisticated, and it's great that we are both friends with our ex sex partners" blow up too many times to think decent people with crappy boundaries aren't headed for trouble.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi Jelly  I did reconcile with a cheater only to divorce 5 yrs later because he cheated again. There is no guarantees that it won't happen again. When we got back together in 2005 after a 2 yr separation, he made me so many promises and in the end, he broke every one of those promises. For those who do reconcile, I wish you all the best but never ever let your guard down.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> People want to believe we are so individual and unique.
> 
> We are more similar than we realize.




:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I was talking with a friend about his wife's infidelity. I was giving him advice on what steps he should take to recover his marriage and common mistakes...
> 
> To which he replied...
> 
> ...


:rofl:



AppleDucklings said:


> Hi Jelly


Hello, Apple! ::waves::


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> Heh, you don't even need to be treated badly or be ignored.
> 
> All you need is poor or weak boundaries.


Again, I disagree.

I have cheated ONCE in my life...over 10 years ago. I was being abused and finally had enough. I honestly didn't give a rat's ass about his feelings or how he'd handle it (until a while later to where I apologized). But for what he put me through, I was done taking him into consideration. We were not married, but had a child and living together.

I haven't cheated since, nor would I. I did learn my lesson (cheating does royally suck) and I learned not to involve myself with men like him.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

You disagree with what?

That people who have poor or non-existent boundaries wind up having affairs?

What I have posted is that the "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a fallacy of hasty generalization.

Not everybody who cheats is a serial cheater.

I provided the example of poor boundaries because it is the common exception. People can learn to have better boundaries.

They can also place more value on integrity: I'll leave you before I cheat on you.

People learn. Not all people, but some people


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> You disagree with what?
> 
> That people who have poor or non-existent boundaries wind up having affairs?
> 
> ...


:iagree:

LOL This made more sense. I think it's because I had some coffee.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> We're all capable, it's just hard to believe.


Whatever drove you to act the way you did is still you. You act out on it differently now. One might call it destiny. People are more or less always going to do what they do regardless. Congrats to you for behaving better but in the end you're still who you are.


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## Berilo (Aug 2, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> He wavered, but claimed that one day he knew it was time to move on. He had the realization that she chose another man over him, made her husband the plan B. Broke her vows and all that, but the realizing that he was second choice, is when he knew to file.


I can really relate to this. In my case, the OM appears to have been the preferred guy for at least half of our marriage for her positive affection. I am a distant #2. This says -- and hurts -- more than anything (whatever the emotional instability she might also suffer from).

I might be able to get over a Las Vegas fling with a co-worker, but not this.


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## StGeorge (Sep 12, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Whatever drove you to act the way you did is still you. You act out on it differently now. One might call it destiny. People are more or less always going to do what they do regardless. Congrats to you for behaving better but in the end you're still who you are.



Or maybe people are able to turn themselves around because it was NOT who they were.

It's not as if people don't find themselves in situations where they stop, look around and say, "Uh, wait a minute. I don't belong here."

The same could be said for anyone who has overcome anything "horrible" thing they've done. 

Saying I had an EA with someone because that's "just who I was" is like saying my current career choice is what it is because it's "just who I am". If you would have told me 20 years ago that I would be doing what I do for a living today I would have told you, you were insane. And if you'd have told me I would have been capable of cheating on my wife, I would have told you the same. 

Situations you find yourself in create the breeding ground for things to occur. Some people have the presence of mind to see the danger and avoid it, some people are taken by surprise by a situation they thought they could control. 

These things happen for a variety of different reasons. The choice to cheat is always the wrong choice but I don't believe that people chose to do it because it's who they are at their core. 

For some it's an addiction, for others it's looking in the wrong place for something you lost.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

And then there's the "serial cheater".

They come in flavors too.

Some think the only thing they did wrong was getting caught.

Others can't stand to be alone for a whole day, so they are busily looking for the next relationship in their current relationship.

And so on, and so on.

I knew a guy who was married 6 times. He left every wife for another woman who he was having an affair with at the time (and I presume there were others that didn't work out as escape plans along the way).

I knew his first wife, and she was a good woman.

To hear him tell it, though, there was something terribly wrong with every one of these women, and he was lucky to get out when he did.

This guy died not too long ago. Finally he left somebody without being able to blame them for everything.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Those are behaviors not identities. Sorry. We'll just have to disagree. To me it's being gracious. I hold people's behaviors against them. Behaviors can change. That's addressable. How they feel about that on the inside is not my concern, not my problem and nothing I can fix or change or hold your hand about. 

In any case there's what? 12 different stories in the world? Mostly everyone who's ever been fits into one of those fables. That's why everyone's problems look the same. They ARE the same. If people didn't do the same stupid sh^t over and over for the last 15,000 years we would have never developed writing.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> We can pretty much copy/paste all of our answers to the newbies.


Which I've done. 

I've got a couple of word documents that I copy and paste from sometimes. :smthumbup:



Jellybeans said:


> I was thinking today... for the ones that reconciled--do you think you're more damaged in the long run since you stayed and that resentment is always there, somewhere, biting in the back? Or are you happier now? Really, truly happier?


Hmmmm....I'm only 15 months out, so I'm still in the process. I'm feeling ambivalent, although the fWW is making an all out effort, I mean really all out. My feelings are just beginning to come back and I'm starting to have feelings toward her again. It's a process I guess, since I'm a two time loser now.



Jellybeans said:


> All of these stories are the same....it's like De Ja Vu day in and day out.


Damn near the same alright. The denials, the blame shifting, the trickle truth, the ILYBINILWY speeches, the "just a friend" sayings, breaking NC, taking it underground, the sexting, the emailing, etc, etc. Then a BS will post that they need help, get replies, then disappear never to be heard from again, while some return months later to report things have gotten worse because they rug swept it or were in False R. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water....


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Which I've done.
> 
> I've got a couple of word documents that I copy and paste from sometimes. :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


A great thread to read while I cannot sleep. It's amazing how much my story is like so many others and hype it has played out like a script. Because of your advice I am taking control of my side of the story. I am making the choice to move on with S and then D. An EA is so powerful that sometimes you need to just let go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

DSSM9500 said:


> An EA is so powerful that sometimes you need to just let go.


I know, that's what's so hurtful about an EA, that they've given their heart to someone else. This is a partial screenshot of my wife's secret facebook account under a fake name. And this was when she was on her laptop in the bedroom behind closed doors while I was in the living room watching tv.










I know it's nowhere near as bad as others, but who knows, the other stuff could have been deleted by the time I got into the account MONTHS later. Yeah, I got the denials and all that. She even tried to say that it was all him and OM made their "friendship" more than it really was...that she felt nothing for him. *Yeah, right*.

Just knowing that the person you love and trust, could talk about a third party is just agonizing. At least I've gotten to the point where seeing this doesn't trigger me that badly.


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## artlady (Jul 17, 2011)

> I was thinking today... for the ones that reconciled--do you think you're more damaged in the long run since you stayed and that resentment is always there, somewhere, biting in the back? Or are you happier now? Really, truly happier?


I think both are going on here for me (I am almost twelve months out-- D-Day was Oct. 13th of last year). Mostly, we are really, truly happier. Before D-Day, we argued almost all the time, treated each other mostly apathetically; my husband threw himself into his work and amped up the secret communications with his "first love". I was no peach, either, though I did not cheat. But during our separation we seriously changed, and really figured out what we needed to do to save our relationship and all that we'd been doing wrong. Except for the period after I found out about the EA/PA, it's been so easy to be in love, to have respect for each other, to have fun and be happy. I have a man who loves me more than anything in the world, and I feel the same about him. _However,_ yeah, there's some resentment over everything he did with that... _woman._ It hits me from time to time, just like the hurt does. But since we're both resolved to staying together, I just have to make my way through it, discuss it if I need to, and move on. I seriously hope it fades with time.

So, yeah, I'm damaged... but (and sometimes it feels unfortunate) it's what it took to get this marriage back on track.



> All of these stories are the same....it's like De Ja Vu day in and day out.


It really is, and I agree, it's sad. Before I started reading here, I had no idea there were so many stories similar to mine.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I know, that's what's so hurtful about an EA, that they've given their heart to someone else. This is a partial screenshot of my wife's secret facebook account under a fake name. And this was when she was on her laptop in the bedroom behind closed doors while I was in the living room watching tv.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree...the fact of an EA is bad enough, but then the continued lies, denials, trickle truth, promise of NC, breaking NC, continued deception, and them choosing fantasy over reality is like twisting the knife in your back over and over again. When I asked DS why she continued contact with OM right under my nose, her excuse was that she did not see us as an item anymore. WTF? What about the blatant disrespect after apologizing about how much she screwed up and how much she hurt me? And then she thinks we can be friends? Is this how she treats her friends? 

Fortunately the part of me that wants R shrinks more and more each day. I don't she realizes how many bridges she has burned with the EA and how much collateral damage she has caused. Hope "finding herself" and being able to keep up her sweet online chats with "fantasy man" are worth it. 

OK - I feel much better!!


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Methinks we all need to be reminded of the fact that:

those who cheat, do "pay the piper" eventually, whether u r 
around to see it or not. so dont focus on how happy they r
now that they are free to date or hitch up with another hunkie/hottie (m/f). they'll pay. man, will they pay.
for everybody reaps what everybody sows, be it thoughts (some), words (more), &/or actions (most).

Not that one should relish this truth, or wish it on their WS
but, i believe too often folks here keep focusing on everything
else & not this TRUTH.

For if u take the "high road", i know God will bless u (eventually,
in time) for it/that.

shalom


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

cb45 said:


> those who cheat, do "pay the piper" eventually



Maybe. Maybe not. The important thing is that when you are fully detatched, you won't be wasting any cycles speculating about people getting run over by the Karma Bus because you will be too busy living your own life.

And let's be honest: how much time have you spent recently hoping for some divine retribution to fall upon those you have dated in your past?

I rest my case. Embrace life, and it doesn't matter.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

LM: I see that facebook posting and my heart breaks for you...OMG! I have to deal with a text, "On my to you" which causes my heart to go dark each time I think of it, you my man are a strong one! You have taken this horrible transgression and done something wonderful with it, with your continued advice and concern for others on this forum. You are/will be truely blessed for your trip on the high road...someone for me to try and emulate. Gods speed.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Which I've done.
> 
> I've got a couple of word documents that I copy and paste from sometimes. :smthumbup:


Hehe. Maybe I'll start Word documenting mine, too!



DSSM9500 said:


> A great thread to read while I cannot sleep. It's amazing how much my story is like so many others and hype it has played out like a script


They don't call it a SCRIPT for nothing! 



lordmayhem said:


> At least I've gotten to the point where seeing this doesn't trigger me that badly.


I am glad to hear where you aren't triggering as badly.



artlady said:


> It really is, and I agree, it's sad. Before I started reading here, I had no idea there were so many stories similar to mine.


Yeah, welcome to the club nobody wants to be in. Made up of really cool folks, though.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

RWB said:


> JB, you have street cred in my book.


Believe me, it's not any street cred I wish I had or knew of or was part of in any way/shape/form.

I just wanted to add a little about my own journey. Some of you know my story. Very recently my exH said to me "I know it wasn't right what I did." 

Such few words but I finally feel like he owned it for the first time. He had never said anything like that to me before. Nearly two yrs and a divorce later, I feel like he finally takes some responsibility. And while it doesn't put humpty dumpty back together again, in a small way, I am happy he said these words to me.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Hoosier said:


> LM: I see that facebook posting and my heart breaks for you...OMG! I have to deal with a text, "On my to you" which causes my heart to go dark each time I think of it, you my man are a strong one! You have taken this horrible transgression and done something wonderful with it, with your continued advice and concern for others on this forum. You are/will be truely blessed for your trip on the high road...someone for me to try and emulate. Gods speed.


Thanks Hoosier, I have a whole sh!tload of other stuff too. It was the affair that's starting to become more common with the advent of the internet and social networking sites: The Reconnecting Via SNS Affair. From what I've been able to piece together, there were plans being made to be together. I accidentally discovered it. Anyway, she's done all the right things said all the right things. It's only now that I'm starting to come out of the funk of not caring if I R or D. Faking it till I make it indeed.

My first marriage was like yours, she walked out the door and never came back. At least she never married the OM, and she looks terrible now.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Thanks Hoosier, I have a whole sh!tload of other stuff too. It was the affair that's starting to become more common with the advent of the internet and social networking sites: The Reconnecting Via SNS Affair. From what I've been able to piece together, there were plans being made to be together. I accidentally discovered it. Anyway, she's done all the right things said all the right things. It's only now that I'm starting to come out of the funk of not caring if I R or D. Faking it till I make it indeed.
> 
> My first marriage was like yours, she walked out the door and never came back. At least she never married the OM, and she looks terrible now.


Facebook, email, texting, smartphones, etc. are now the cheap motels which used to cover the affairs of yesteryear. Its scary!

While most of us here probably had issues in our marriages which may of fertilized the ground for a EA/PA, new technology makes it really easy to cross the boundary. For me, FB was always an irritating and time wasting distraction for my wife - I never knew how dangerous it could really be.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

I believe I am happier than I have ever been. On balance, I believe going through this has made her and I both better people. In many ways I felt closer to her before I found out, but looking back from the other side I know that we are closer now than we ever were then. It's kind of paradoxical. 
Of course, I am not saying I am happy she cheated! It still hurts, there were much less painful paths to where we are now, but I can live just fine with these scars.

Or maybe the joy of repetition really is in me...
Hot Chip - Over And Over - YouTube


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Berilo said:


> I can really relate to this. In my case, the OM appears to have been the preferred guy for at least half of our marriage for her positive affection. I am a distant #2. This says -- and hurts -- more than anything (whatever the emotional instability she might also suffer from).
> 
> I might be able to get over a Las Vegas fling with a co-worker, but not this.


Ding ding ding. The phone lines are closed; we have a winner.

That is the major hangup with me. She always got to see the OM at his very best. They never had to discuss paying the bills or who was going to stay home with the sick child. He didn't need to shower her with roses, wine, bubble baths, and stuff to get her engines fired up. How many dinner dates, trips to the mall, walks in the park, and concerts did he have to take her out to in order for her to 'get to know him'? The fact that I did all of those things, on top of pay the bills, only for him to swoop right in, still makes my stomach sour.

There isn't a person on this site who likes the idea of being second-place to some affair partner of their spouse. The affair my wife had with the OM made me feel like I was the stand-in, the stop gap she chose when her targeted man was not available. If they had reunited ten seconds before I came onto the scene, I wouldn't be on this site to begin with. Sometimes, I wished that they did...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Simon Phoenix said:


> That is the major hangup with me. She always got to see the OM at his very best. They never had to discuss paying the bills or who was going to stay home with the sick child.


And that is exactly why affairs aren't real. They are a fantasy and not Real Life.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> And that is exactly why affairs aren't real. They are a fantasy and not Real Life.


And that's my point. She got a ticket to fantasy land while I had to stay in the 'real world'. Sort of like offering someone a dinner at the Olive Garden while the other offers her a week-long stay on a luxury cruise liner. Those breadsticks might be tasty but you can never compete with a cruise boat...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> And that is exactly why affairs aren't real. They are a fantasy and not Real Life.


I have a different take on this: affairs are real (and they generally wind up sucking).

They aren't that different than how most relationships start out (aside from the marriage baggage which is huge admittedly).

Most dating relationships, however, do not lead to marriage.

You have to date somebody a while before the newness and rush of the whole thing wears off and you start to notice that the person you have been dating... isn't somebody you even like let alone really love.

If you try to compete with an affair, you are competing with something that is new and exciting, and the people in the affair are primarly focused on the 'present' and not the consequences or even the prospects that there are sustainable long-term propspects. 

In that sense, they may seem like a fantasy to somebody who is doing future-oriented risk assesments and anticipating consequences, but... if you are in the thrill of the moment, you don't do that stuff.

Hence the expression "love is blind". It should be "lust is blind" because "Love has its eyes wide-open".


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TimeHeals said:


> I have a different take on this: affairs are real (and they generally wind up sucking).
> 
> You have to date somebody a while before the newness and rush of the whole thing wears off and you start to notice that the person you have been dating... isn't somebody you even like let alone really love.


I meant affairs aren't real like a real long-term committed relationship/marriage. There is a massive difference. Of course they happen and exist. The newness wears off in every relationship, that is a given. An affair is not rooted in all the day to day grind of Real Life. Hence, a fantasy. And fantasy isn't real life in a real committed marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The denial seems particularly strong in some of the latest cases lately.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> The denial seems particularly strong in some of the latest cases lately.


I know. It's like i said before. It is almost exactly the same as dealing with my teens. As much as I try and try to let them know that, YES!! I have BEEN through the same thing YOU are going through now, i know the pain and the outcome! , they are determined to learn the mistakes themselves and feel all the pain if it. It gets to the point where I guess you just have to let them burn.

Q~


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I think the deal with affairs is quite simple. It offers something new and exciting without all of the baggage. First, there's something exciting about the elicit nature of things. Second, it brings you back to the beginnings of a relationship and all the associated feelings. The shame is that once the marriage is broken up because of the affair the wayward spouse is left feeling empty. They get out of the fog and realize life is still there and what they have is just another relationship. Worse yet if that person is ultimately not obtainable they have just thrown away everything to end up all alone with their own remorse and guilt about everything they did. 

As for divorce overall it's sad because the more stories I read here the more and more it strengthens my belief that most of these breakups are completely unnecessary.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> As I am want to say "It's not what you do, it's who you are.." People don't grow a cheating organ after 'x' years. They don't swallow the blue pill and screw someone else just because. It's in them. It's what they are. That doesn't change.


This is what I believe, as well. I think people who cheat are wired differently than those who do not.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

The stories are the same to us, the folks that have been dealing with this and reading about it for some time now.

But, to a newly betrayed person it is an alternate reality that they probably had little experience with. I think it is helpful for them to see that they are not alone, that others have gone through this, and the hurtful crap spewing from their cheater's mouth is common.
It comforted me to see that my XW venom and lies were typical justifications not grounded in truth at all. I could see this because other nice betrayed folks told me their cheater said and did the same things. I learned a lot from theese repetetive scripts.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Arnold said:


> The stories are the same to us, the folks that have been dealing with this and reading about it for some time now.
> 
> But, to a newly betrayed person it is an alternate reality that they probably had little experience with. I think it is helpful for them to see that they are not alone, that others have gone through this, and the hurtful crap spewing from their cheater's mouth is common.
> It comforted me to see that my XW venom and lies were typical justifications not grounded in truth at all. I could see this because other nice betrayed folks told me their cheater said and did the same things. I learned a lot from theese repetetive scripts.


I know. The frustration lies with the newly betrayed that seem to need to experience more of the pain themselves before seeing the advice given them was good. Its like seeing someone standing in the middle of the road get run over repeatedly before they realize they have to move over, and all the while you're on the sidelines practically screaming at them. The shock and denial are particularly strong with some right now.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I am one of those newbies on here. It's only been 5 weeks since Dday of H EA, he says he did a NC call while out on the road. So I don't totally believe him.

He will be home tomorrow, so I plan on talking to him about everything. 

I guess my question is, it has been 5 weeks, when I ask him questions and try to get him to talk about everything, what signs should I look for as "red flags"? I'm sure it depends on the person but wanting to know if there are patterns to certain responses to look for?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I know. The frustration lies with the newly betrayed that seem to need to experience more of the pain themselves before seeing the advice given them was good. Its like seeing someone standing in the middle of the road get run over repeatedly before they realize they have to move over, and all the while you're on the sidelines practically screaming at them. The shock and denial are particularly strong with some right now.


And I think it is worse for the many of us on here who are "nice guys" because we seem to feel more accepted when we are being taken advantage of, its like we set it up so that we have that purpose.

I was rethinking a conversation I had with my stbxw's father during a phase where I was accepting the blame for my W's cheating and choice to end the marriage and trying to own my share of the problems in the marriage. I told him I wasn't doing what had to be done, wasn't meeting her needs, he asked for specific examples and I basically just beat myself up in front of him, and I think I lost his respect there because he has no comprehension of what it is like to be me or have my nice guy tendencies, he was a very competitive, stubborn and opinionated man, but he is very loving, and since then I think he has seen my resilience in a somewhat new light, he sees I've been making good choices and having some confidence again.

And this morning I was realizing how wrapped up I have become in seeking approval and trying to impress others, I sincerely thought when things were bad in our marriage that my strength of character was my huge ability to endure whatever crap was piled on me, I believed dealing with the mistreatment and disrespect my wife was giving me was just me being tough, and when that rug was pulled out from me I felt so weak and confused why. It made me so angry to discover these faults in myself, that I have been so weak for not making or enforcing my boundaries and for thinking I was doing the right thing by letting that continue.

I am so glad for the advice given here by others who went through, and are going through what I have. I will definitely keep coming here to get through this and even pay it forward whenever I can.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

bump


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I am one of those newbies on here. It's only been 5 weeks since Dday of H EA, he says he did a NC call while out on the road. So I don't totally believe him.
> 
> He will be home tomorrow, so I plan on talking to him about everything.
> 
> I guess my question is, it has been 5 weeks, when I ask him questions and try to get him to talk about everything, what signs should I look for as "red flags"? I'm sure it depends on the person but wanting to know if there are patterns to certain responses to look for?


IMO opinion you look for ownership by him of what he did. If he looks at you and says, "Honey, I screwed up beyond all belief. I did it. It was not and is not your fault in anyway. I will do whatever you need to fix it, and I will never ever let anything like this happen again." You're off to a good start. If he says, "Well, I didn't mean for it to happen, it was just an accident. You know if you had done this or hadn't done that it would never have happened." Then you've still got problems. IMO ownership is the absolutely most essential thing to remorse and remorse is the most essential thing to reconciliation.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> IMO opinion you look for ownership by him of what he did. If he looks at you and says,* "Honey, I screwed up beyond all belief. I did it. It was not and is not your fault in anyway. I will do whatever you need to fix it, and I will never ever let anything like this happen again." * You're off to a good start. If he says, "Well, I didn't mean for it to happen, it was just an accident. You know if you had done this or hadn't done that it would never have happened." Then you've still got problems. IMO ownership is the absolutely most essential thing to remorse and remorse is the most essential thing to reconciliation.


He has said this, yet he still denies it being an affair. He says there was no physical attraction to her, was just friends. And of course now he says she's a lesbian (yet married).. so only owns up to calling her (exchanging innocent sexual comments) and deceiving me. Otherwise doesn't admit any other wrong doing. And has said that when we talk it is mostly "dead air" (he's gone 5 days a week, truck driver) and that he enjoyed talking to someone who "stroked his ego".


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