# Can You Fully R without all the facts?



## MAJDEATH

We R'd in 2006, after 5 yrs of separation and with only one more court case to finalize divorce. I knew of 1 A, and we agreed to a NC rule. We have moved 5 times since then, and had to deal with a longterm traumatic unrelated event that rocked us to the core. A lessor woman would not have stuck thru it with me, and she really demostrated her committment to both me and the marriage.

A few month ago was DDay 2, where I was informed about the circumstances regarding multiple PA/EAs during our separation, some lasting years. It hit me hard, and naturally I had lots of questions. I also have been working with an IC.

Knowing what we know now, I believe that had she come forward with all the facts regarding her multiple As around the time of considering R (or the first few years after), I never would have agreed to a R and we would be D. By waiting to tell me, it afforded her time to do some heavy lifting and demonstrate her committment to us. We are doing great and I am coming to terms with it.


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## ReidWright

MAJDEATH said:


> Knowing what we know now, I believe that had she come forward with all the facts regarding her multiple As around the time of considering R (or the first few years after), I never would have agreed to a R and we would be D. By waiting to tell me, it afforded her time to do some heavy lifting and demonstrate her committment to us.





so you understand she was deceptive, or at least not 100% transparent, in order to trick you into R? 

what was the agreement during your separation? was dating acceptable?


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## Ynot

I am a little unclear about your time line. Apparently you and your SO were getting a divorce, going thru the process and almost finished when you reconciled? Was it during this time that she was having an "affair". While technically speaking the two of you may have still be married, you were in fact separated for five years. She may not have considered those "affairs" to be "affairs" at all but rather attempts are other relationships outside of a marriage that was in the process of falling apart. Would it matter to you if these "affairs" had taken place after your divorce was final and then you reconciled? Or what if you were now discovering things about a different woman that you are now with, would these prior "affairs" be of concern to you today.
Your SO may not have thought them relevant considering that you were separated for five years. OTOH did you ever bother to ask her about them when you gotr back together? It seems there a lots of unanswered questions that need answering first.


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## Maneo

so you've been back together, and apparently, happily so, since 2006 including her significant support for you during some difficult times? And other than activity when you were separated for 5 years, and particularly for the years from 2006 when you came back together to the present, is there any indication of her being anything but 100% for you and the marriage? If no indication of anything but true to you and the marriage, then what happened when separated is history. That was then, this is now. Now is what counts I'd think.


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## MAJDEATH

To be clear, the first 3 yrs I was overseas in the war, and the last 2 yrs I was stateside, but living apart pending divorce after finding out about 1 A.


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## Maneo

MAJDEATH said:


> To be clear, the first 3 yrs I was overseas in the war, and the last 2 yrs I was stateside, but living apart pending divorce after finding out about 1 A.


But separated all 5 years and planning on divorcing? So separated before you went overseas?


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## GusPolinski

Any agreement, understanding, etc (a marital reconciliation, for example) based on a lie is itself a lie.

If you're OK w/ that, then that's fine, but let's call it what it is.

The bottom line to many, I'd think, is that _you wouldn't have agreed to reconcile had you known the truth._ Additionally, *your WW knew this.* Otherwise, why lie?

Anyway, in NOT telling you the truth (i.e. lying to you), your WW took a calculated risk aimed squarely at increasing the chances that you'd agree to reconcile. IOW, _you were manipulated into it._

So, again, if you're OK w/ all this, that's fine... but let's call it what it is.


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## arbitrator

*Reconcilliation, without  all of the facts by the wayward is a sheer exercise in futility. Without remorse, and the availability of truthful facts pertaining to the affair, reconciliation is not even remotely possible!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Without accountability there can be no atonement, and without the truth there can be no accountability.

Truth > Accountability > Atonement > Reconciliation

It really is just as simple as that.


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## Maneo

What was the understanding between the two of you when you separated for 5 years regarding any involvement with others?


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## MAJDEATH

I was trying to summarize, most of the answers to your question are contained in the link in my signature. When I say separated, I meant geographically, as in going to war 6000 miles away. The first deployment was OK. She was supportive and faithful. But after I got back, she wanted me to quit the military because she thought I would get killed and leave her a widow. She begged me not to go again but I ended up leaving for 2 more back to back deployments, and indeed almost got killed. It was during those 2 yrs the multiple As happened.

After I returned stateside, it was time for the next regularly scheduled move, but she didn't want to go. I thought it was attachment to the house, but it was attachments to something else. I moved, and she reluctantly came to join me several months later. For 4 months, she would return about every 3 weeks for an extended visit, which I attributed to getting a house ready to be sold.

Eventually I found out about 1 A shortly after she moved back, and filed for D. We spent 2 yrs in court fighting over a contested divorce, while living apart.

Is it deceptive to withold info in order to stay positive and give R a chance? The MCs and ICs I've asked this question mostly say yes. Our situation was unique. It was very unlikely that we would ever encounter any of the OM the rest of our lives, living in different states/countries. 

And bottom line, she voluntarily informed me about the As (albeit many years later) because she knew that she would have to come clean at some point, in order to truly R.


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## GusPolinski

MAJDEATH said:


> I was trying to summarize, most of the answers to your question are contained in the link in my signature. When I say separated, I meant geographically, as in going to war 6000 miles away. The first deployment was OK. She was supportive and faithful. But after I got back, she wanted me to quit the military because she thought I would get killed and leave her a widow. She begged me not to go again but I ended up leaving for 2 more back to back deployments, and indeed almost got killed. It was during those 2 yrs the multiple As happened.
> 
> After I returned stateside, it was time for the next regularly scheduled move, but she didn't want to go. I thought it was attachment to the house, but it was attachments to something else. I moved, and she reluctantly came to join me several months later. For 4 months, she would return about every 3 weeks for an extended visit, which I attributed to getting a house ready to be sold.
> 
> Eventually I found out about 1 A shortly after she moved back, and filed for D. We spent 2 yrs in court fighting over a contested divorce, while living apart.
> 
> *Is it deceptive to withold info in order to stay positive and give R a chance?* The MCs and ICs I've asked this question mostly say yes. Our situation was unique. It was very unlikely that we would ever encounter any of the OM the rest of our lives, living in different states/countries.


Yes.



MAJDEATH said:


> And bottom line, she voluntarily informed me about the As (albeit many years later) because she knew that she would have to come clean at some point, in order to truly R.


Uhhh... no. 

That might be WHY she eventually told you the truth, but the reason that she waited as long as she did to tell you the truth was because she knew that you likely wouldn't choose to reconcile had you known the truth from the start.

Come on, man... think about it. She lied to you in order to increase the odds that you would choose an outcome that would favor her. In doing so, she robbed you of the choice that she knew you'd have likely made. You were manipulated, plain and simple.

So, again, if you're cool w/ all this, then that's fine, but let's call it what it is.


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## cdbaker

I agree with Gus's post above. You have to accept you were manipulated in order to move forward.

As far as your original question, if taken stand alone at face value, I think it depends. When you consider what you don't know, you have to think about all the possible answers. If any of those worst-case-scenario answers could be deal breakers for the R, then you absolutely have to know those things, period, and there really shouldn't be any doubt in your mind as to whether you know the truth surrounding those issues.

If it is something a little more minor, and you know you'll be comfortable with them regardless of what the answers are, then I'd say you can move forward without them. There were lots of little questions I had about my wife's A that were incredibly minor that I ignored early one, but every now and then we sit down and discuss the past casually and they come up, comfortable in knowing that we can share freely without worry.


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## perol

Wow this is a tough situation. I guess if she wasn't remorseful and things weren't getting better you can use all those lies she told you as further reason to cut the cord. But this are good, so what do you do? Accept that she continued to lie and manipulate you (into R) after the affairs were finished?

Either way you lose to some extent, you have to figure out which is the lesser of two bad situations. Live with a past cheater and liar who you may never be able to trust, or live without them.

Good luck dude


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## MAJDEATH

I appreciate everyone's opinions but you guys also have to consider another aspect about the R as well. She did not have the full story about my relationships as well. So she was also taking a chance that I would not revert back to the same cold, uncaring guy I was before. She also had gotten tested, diagnosed, and began effective treatment for multiple MH conditions that I believe had an influence on her previous behavior. Not an excuse but a contributing factor.

Almost all of the IC and MC that I have asked say that admitting to infidelity is necessary for successful R, but opinions vary as to how much detail is required. She admitted to infidelity prior to R. She choose to end it prior to R. She wrote the NC letter prior to R. I spoke to AP prior to R and he confirmed NC and that it was over.

I don't agree that leaving some details out makes the entire R a "lie", and that it is not worth it. The end does justify the means. We are happy, healthy, and successful. I know my wife better than I ever have. We are in the second act of our life together and we communicate our unrestricted thoughts and feelings without fear. We both understand what conditions were present and why we did what we did during the "dark" years when we were "virtually" divorced.


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## Maneo

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate everyone's opinions but you guys also have to consider another aspect about the R as well. She did not have the full story about my relationships as well. So she was also taking a chance that I would not revert back to the same cold, uncaring guy I was before. She also had gotten tested, diagnosed, and began effective treatment for multiple MH conditions that I believe had an influence on her previous behavior. Not an excuse but a contributing factor.
> 
> Almost all of the IC and MC that I have asked say that admitting to infidelity is necessary for successful R, but opinions vary as to how much detail is required. She admitted to infidelity prior to R. She choose to end it prior to R. She wrote the NC letter prior to R. I spoke to AP prior to R and he confirmed NC and that it was over.
> 
> I don't agree that leaving some details out makes the entire R a "lie", and that it is not worth it. The end does justify the means. We are happy, healthy, and successful. I know my wife better than I ever have. We are in the second act of our life together and we communicate our unrestricted thoughts and feelings without fear. We both understand what conditions were present and why we did what we did during the "dark" years when we were "virtually" divorced.


sounds as if you have answered your own question that began this thread. have a happy life with her.


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