# I need help



## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

Hi there. this might be a bit long, but I'm at a loss, so help would be appreciated.

I've been married now for a year and almost 2 months, I've been with my husband for what will be 5 years in october.

I have to say that up until recently I had rebuilt all my confidence and security in how things were.

heres a little background:

we met when I was 18. we had both recently left relationships that were a waste of time, and we had a lot in common, opinions, attitudes, general moods, music, spirituality etc. I adored him, he was wonderful.

I am a very rational person. I hate fighting, and I refuse to let myself go off the handle with anger to hurt someone. Every problem we've ever had has been almost properly discussed, and both sides got their feelings out and progress was usually made. I was proud of this.

The only problems we've ever had were him lying, my control issues (which I mind and keep under control) and my lack of wanting to party or socialize in large groups or with people I don't like.

The major problem from my side, is that every lie has really been an omission. He doesn't tell me things. (I tell this man every thing I do, even if I'm not proud of it) I end up finding out about things through other people, and when I confront him on it, he says he was "embarassed and ashamed" and he's sorry.

So lets fastforward now that I've gotten very basics stated.

About 2 years ago my husband lost yet again another job, I've kept the same crummy job for 5 years as steady income because we cannot afford to risk losing my income since he can't keep jobs. He applied for school, signed up, took out loans, and went. he got to spend a year on unemployment while I worked (I also worked through my education) going to class, and then was given a job by my employer because they wanted to help me a bit. We were married in may, he stopped attending then because of a mis communication, and re-enrolled. We had a gorgeous wedding, and awesome spur of the moment honeymoon and were happy for the most part. 

This past february, his sister died after a 10 year battle with drugs and alcohol, this was an entire family battle, all of us were doing whatever we could to help her and it was to no use.

shortly afterwards he stopped attending school, then started again and had to switch majors, and then stopped going again for good.

He stopped going in april. I found out about it on my birthday when I called his school thinking the note I got in the mail was some sort of mix up. he'd been leaving 3 times a week for class, and not going.

Then I found the credit card charges, on MY card, in my maiden name, he wracked up over $200 worth of charges, on top of the $40,000 worth of school debt. 

I'm at a loss now. because a week later when I went out for my birthday, he not only ruined the night for me, but we had to leave because he was too wrecked to be there. 

And I see no real remorse. I've tried talking about it, I even actually blew up at him for once about it. theres been nothing, and i know grieving is hard, I know this, when most people tell me they would have left, i respond with I don't abandon people 

but the truth is, at 23, I've not been able to do anything more than work a terrible low paying job to support myself and my husband while he bounces through jobs, screws up his opportunities, lies to me, and thinks nothing of it. should I expect less out of a 27 yr old? 

I thought we were on the same page working for the things he told me he wanted, and he keeps proving otherwise.

So what do I do here? the amount of hurt and shame I felt finding out that he'd hidden that from me is undescribable, especially after the amount of confidence I had in us, trust I had for him (which is huge, I dont trust people easily) and how well I thought we communicated.

I need help, at this point I can barely look at him anymore, I don't want to be around him, and on top of that, I don't know how to help him.


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

You've done plenty to help/support him and he has squamdered that, as well as your trust.

Having been in this situation, once, myself, I advise you to turn off his meal ticket and find a way to build the life you want rather than having him unravel all that you do.

Best,

Lyn


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The thing is, men mature much more slowly than women. Women typically pick up responsibilities, and HOPE that their men will recognize it and do the same.

They don't.

I'm sorry, but my advice is separate, and let him grow up - on his own.

Let him learn his OWN lessons. 

Then come back to you.

If you continue to try to FIX things to make it good or easy for him...he never will learn what being an adult is all about.

You can always get together later.


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## Jake Andrews (Jun 25, 2010)

NO, don't separate like the previous two pinheads suggested. They don't have any "skin" in this marriage and what's it to them if your marriage fails or succeeds. Both of you made vows to each other and they should be adhered to. Honestly I wouldn't know how to approach this situation, but to tell you to separate or divorce will not come from me. I seriously suggest that you look into finding a top-notch marriage counselor. Your situation is really not that unique from their perspective, they can definitely help both of you through this bumpy time in your marriage and come out much better at the end.
I wish you well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Jake Andrews said:


> NO, don't separate like the previous two pinheads suggested. They don't have any "skin" in this marriage and what's it to them if your marriage fails or succeeds. Both of you made vows to each other and they should be adhered to. Honestly I wouldn't know how to approach this situation, but to tell you to separate or divorce will not come from me. I seriously suggest that you look into finding a top-notch marriage counselor. Your situation is really not that unique from their perspective, they can definitely help both of you through this bumpy time in your marriage and come out much better at the end.
> I wish you well.


 Jake, this guy has made NO ATTEMPT at being responsible for himself. How much slack is she supposed to pick up, until he decices he has to step up and be a grownup?


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## indy copendendent (Jun 28, 2010)

Seriously! The suggestion to stick with a marriage through thick and thin is so cliche. If one person isn't pulling their weight, then why should the other person be ok with that? Terrible advice!

CLucas- you're young and you should do what you need to do in order to fill fulfilled and happy with yourself. Funny thing is, the more confident you are in yourself, the more likely you are to find someone who appreciates you for you who are and doesn't take advantage of you the way this person has sucked the life out of you.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

So as I was left to wait 2 hours to get a ride home from work this morning I can't say as I can argue with any of you, but that is just my anger talking.

I tend to rationalize things, a lot. I've always expected that decent talking and discussion will help a situation more than any sort of hostility.

I know that at least in some way he adores me, he loves me. I can see it in his eyes, and as far as history goes, I've brought him so far personally and helped him to develope into a person and come through so much it seems premature to jump to leaving like that, especially when his baby sister just died in february. 

and theres more to it. His family is my family, they adore me, they took me in when I was homeless, I'm in his sisters wedding in august..they consider me their daughter. I can't have the guilt of destroying them and him sitting on my shoulders.

and he's grieving, I know he is, I also know that I can't help him but it seems like it would do him harm to just leave in the middle of his suffering like that...

but then again, I look at it like maybe its all a game, maybe really its a front I see, and when my back is turned he's someone else.

I hate that I've grown suspicious, I hated every seccond it took to tell him I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth, and I hate that this has to be a page in my proverbial book.

so while my instinct is to hit the road, those vows still meant something, they meant everything. A top notch counselor is out of the question, after the added $40,00 in debt, theres no affording something like that. 

and yet I have dreams, I have ambitions, I have passions and they're all stunted and put on the back burner waiting for our life to progress together..its hard, it really is...there has to be some way to work the situation.

My mom suggested an ultimatum, tell him exactly what I want, and if not, he can go. people have told me they would have left by now..

can anyone see why I'm torn here, or does it just seem like I'm a blubbering idiot? 

I just hate to think the only reason I was sent to him was to save him from where he was and then move on so that he can too. because I did, I saved his life from where he was.

I thank you for the insights and suggestions,and gladly welcome more. Its just sad to think everything I put my love time and dedication into was for naught.


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm sure he does love you...and adore you. The question is...does he love you enough to do the right thing? Maybe he does. Maybe he needs therapy to confront his shiftlessness and maybe he will become inspired to change or motivated by the fact that your marriage may end. Maybe it will last more than a few months. It could happen.

The question is, does he love you ENOUGH not to expect you to drag him behind you for the rest of your lives and that's what you need to find out.

Best,

Lyn


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, you're perfectly right to want to stay. However, you have to come to a point, some time, where you question the logic of what you are doing.

You talk about him as if he was some class project, how you 'brought him up' and all. Do you have a Giver personality? Where you feel good by helping other people, and hide your own needs? It's great that you helped him, but it sounds like he has grown comfortable having you in that role. What does that do? It STAGNATES your relationship.

Now is the time to sit down with him and say "I think we have come a long way from ABC. I'm really proud of the things we've accomplished. But now I need more. I need a husband who will prop ME up just as much as I prop HIM up. You aren't doing that. You have developed into a Taker, and I'm tired of being the only Giver. I can't spend the rest of my life like that, because I deserve to be loved, appreciated, and taken care of just as much as you do. If you can't do that, then we need to discuss what's going to happen. Because I will not, CAN not, stay like this much longer."

Then base your decisions on what he does. Not what he says. What he _does_.


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

turnera said:


> Then base your decisions on what he does. Not what he says. What he _does_.




Agreed.

Best,

Lyn


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## franklinfx (Apr 7, 2009)

I hope this doesnt sound condescending, but you are very young and should be enjoying this time in your life, these are problems you shouldnt have to deal at your age. Your husband sounds very immature, and irresponsible, as was I, when I was in my 20s, so I know what youre going through. I hate to be blunt, but I can almost guarantee you will regret staying w/ this guy. Alcohol abuse, and debt, are big problems, you DONT want to deal with down the road. Do not, whatever you do, have kids, or buy a house with him. Walk away while you still can. You are young enough that you can take the time, to be choosy in who you spend your life with. I made a similar mistake 10 years ago, when I "settled" for the wrong person, now im 38, and I look back, and realize I wasted the best years of my life. Dont let it happen to you. You sound like a nice girl. I hope things work out for you.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

turnera said:


> No, you're perfectly right to want to stay. However, you have to come to a point, some time, where you question the logic of what you are doing.
> 
> You talk about him as if he was some class project, how you 'brought him up' and all. Do you have a Giver personality? Where you feel good by helping other people, and hide your own needs? It's great that you helped him, but it sounds like he has grown comfortable having you in that role. What does that do? It STAGNATES your relationship.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you have to hit the nail on the head quite so perfectly. 

In all honestly, I did improve his life simply by caring for him. I gave him a reason. he was destroying himself prior and that was his intentions by all means.

I still remember his now dead sister, telling me how I made her brother happier than she'd ever seen him and this was prior to the giver taker positions. I know what I did for him, it wasn't a project, he did the same for me respectively.

Perhaps I am a giver personality, but not so much in supressing my own needs, but in all honesty, if you were to ask me my needs, I'd not answer you, I couldn't tell you. 

I've already touched on the fact that I am done lingering around waiting for him to get it together. School was our ticket out of here, and he screwed it up. I told him if I stay here, this will undoubtedly be my life, we won't progresss, we won't move forward and I'll never be happy and I'll keep the same job forever. 

I think I agree with all of you to an extent. I can't argue. 

and on a side note, I don't ever want kids at all, and I wouldn't buy a house in this area if it was $5. I hate this place, and want nothing to do with it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CLucas976 said:


> Perhaps I am a giver personality, but not so much in supressing my own needs, but in all honesty, if you were to ask me my needs, I'd not answer you, I couldn't tell you.


That's a big sign of a Giver. You honestly never think about yourself, because you're getting all your needs met vicariously by being what someone else needs. The problem with that is you become an empty shell and sometimes never even realize it.

Awhile back, I got so stiff from stress that I couldn't move my neck. Went to my doctor (amazing man, I miss him), who said "What do you do for fun, just for you?" I just looked at him, surprised. Finally, I said "Nothing." He asked me what I _would_ do, if I _could_ be doing something for fun. I said reading, gardening, or needlepoint. But it had been 15 years since I had done that, because I got caught up in being everything for my husband, and everything for my daughter. 

For instance, I love watermelon. When DD19 was a baby, I started feeding it to her, and I stopped eating it; in my mind, I needed to save it for her, thus I shouldn't eat any. Do you see how dysfunctional being a Giver can become?

Anyway, he sent me to a stress therapist, who taught me how to take time and relax. She told me that 85% of all her patients are women, because we so quickly take on the Giver role and submerse ourselves in that role. But our bodies fight back (like my neck).


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

CLucas976, you and everyone are here talking about your immature husband, but you have some growing up to do too. I need to tell you how much I admire your intelligence. In such a short time, you have scoped out and to a point analyzed your situation like many woman never, ever bring themselves to do. On the other hand, you don't seem to be thinking about consequences. In this instance, "consequences" is two-fold.

You recognize you cannot trust your husband, but your state of limbo won't allow you to do what you need to do. You don't seem to get that doing nothing out of guilt, shame, devotion, or whatever, means you will look up again tomorrow or next week or next month only to discover things are much worse than you already knew, or that he has done something else to make things worse. You know he will. As long as he is there, you offer up opportunity. You actually give permission by your inaction. You are the inventor of your own fate. What your fate will be is determined by your inability to recognize the consequences of inaction.

You also have to consider the consequences of the delusional aspect of dating and falling in love. A woman can be unhappily married for 20 years and never come to turns with the reality of who her husband actually is. She hangs that entire time on the hope that he will again become the man she fell in love with, which was actually a person she wanted him to be but he never was in the first place. At no point does it occur to her to recognize who he truly is. Whether your husband fooled you or whether he WAS a figment of your imagination, you have to properly identify the man snoring in your face every night. Or continue facing the consequences of your self-delusion.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

it's not just susan, I'm pretty sure all of you are good.

part of my inaction is due to my analytical tendancies. I always sit back and analyze, our discussions about problems are usually 3 days in the making, giving me time to weigh out where I'm wrong, where I'm right, and visa versa from his side.

I watched my mom have an empty relationship for 13 years, become a shell of a person and the main problem was there is no communicating with the man he actually was, vs the man she fell in love with. maybe I've become the same?

This is a long time in the making, I promise, its just easier to have people (even if you're e-people) who are unattached giving perspective.

My hesistence, is that cliche of "all we've been through together" our first year together I suddenly became homeless, we both lost our jobs, he lost his license, and we got through that, we improved that, we've slowly built up to what we do have and despite our crappy apartment, crappy cars, and salvo clothes, I AM proud of what we have, I know that at least I worked for it.

I am proud to say that I have my furkids, and that I give them the best quality of life possible, to the point of being critisized for the care I put into their care. I see the giver in me now, one of my biggest prides is that all of my animals lives were saved by me, they'd have died or suffered abuse and neglect if I hadn't stepped in. I really take pride in helping and rehabilitating. it is one of my passions.

In all sincerety despite how ready I was at the beginning of this month (my birthday) to pack up, find a school, take my fuzz butts, and go do something I love, it seems such a waste to turn my back on something everyone I know wishes they had. 

Most of my friends can't say that they see love in their spouses eyes, most of my friends are saddened and burned with verbal abuse and neglect. my husband constantly reminds me he loves me, constantly compliments me, always wants to be around me, and we can and do spend hours walking, talking, solving the worlds problems (figuratively) bonding, one of my fondest memories is the night I made him get up and come with me only to surprise him by laying on the car at the bluffs staring at the stars for hours, it was freezing cold out too, could see our breathe, but it didn't matter to either of us.

I've decided to sit down and explain to him exactly what I want from him. I've decided what that is. 

I want honesty first and foremost, even if it hurts. I know that his tendancy to hide embarassments comes from his dad and how that was handled in his youth, but I am not his parent.

I want him to decide what he wants from "us" as a union. and I want to know where he wants us to go together, or if this god forsaken place is his ultimate destiantion, I need to know that.

And from there, I want participation, in everything that is our marriage. That includes housework, moral support, striving to better our living conditions, maybe striving for a day when laundry isn't something that has to be scheduled into our finances.

And I want him to see what is important to me, and appreciate it, whether he likes it or not.

I also need to find where I fall short and own those things too, but I think if nothing else, I need to at least make clear to him what my expectations actually are, so this game of pretend can come to a hault in however the cards may fall.

is that too unrealistic?


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## maggierose (May 11, 2010)

this is a toughy. It sounds to me like your hubby might be suffering from a little bit of depression. problems in the family of alcohol use and drug use are usually habits of avoidance to what is really going on psychologically. It might take some convincing but I really think he needs to talk to someone and express himself. Losing a sibling is one of the toughest things in the world, I watched my mother go through the pain of losing her brother and I must say that she was never the same after he passed. Everyone deals with things differntly and for whatever reason it seems he is withdrawing. Suggest counseling and tell him how you feel and that it is important to you that these things changes in order for your relationship to continue. Not wanting to look at him or be around him is because you are angry with his behavior which no one would blame you for but at the same time you have to work through it and not act as him by avoiding the situation. It will not go away on its own and it will not get better by itself. good luck and I hope counseling is an option for him and he gets the help he needs for both of you.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

That song has always made me happy 

well, without reading your advice first, we had an unprovoked talk last night.

it was my fault, my womanly hormones caused my wall to slip like 3 total silent tears and since I am not that girl that cries ever any tears sends up red flags to him.

I told him that neither of us are fully participating in our marriage, and that we can't because we aren't fully participating in ourselves. I explained that there is a pattern in his behavior, and that the things he's hidden from me have gotten progressively worse and that its probably my fault because I avoid conflict, so times when I thought we'd fully communicated and resolved the issue, subconciously, there was no consequence to his action and no need for him to change it.

I also explained that I've lost the ability to make myself happy by being to worried about making him happy, and also channeled that need into our animals when I can't fill the need with him. I can go shopping and find tons of stuff for them and him, but ask me to find myself something and I won't do it.(was my example) 

Then I asked him if he was happy with himself. He said no. He also said that he sees the patterns I'm talking about, can place where they come from he's just uncertain of how to change them because its a learned childhood behavior. I explained that I can't be fully happy with myself or anything I've done for myself because I barely know who I am. He agreed, I've become a fearful paranoid shut in that can't go do anything on my own for myself.

He'd been discussing joining the military to help the cost of his failure at school, and confessed that he had a complete break down after his sister to the point of not even knowing how to continue on, the past ten he spent dedicated to helping her, and so I said that perhaps now, since thats gone, we can actually partake in our own lives instead of hers.

I also explained that our marriage is doomed if we can't both participate, when we joined our gym, we were asked our fitness goals, mine was lose the gut, his was in depth and specific, but he can't say anything in depth and specific as to what he wants to see for us, what we're working for together, and I told him he needs to. I had thought the past 2 years we were working towards his degree, and getting his resume across the country to get out of here, and tht its what we both wanted, and that we both have to want the same direction at least and work together for it.

I did my best to keep it both sided and look at both of us, it was both of us communicating actively, and I even apologized and said I was going to wait unitl I'd fully looked at my downfalls and where I need improvement to keep the conversation level but he pryed it out of me rather early.

hopefully, I didn't screw anything up, it felt good to explain everything out, I left a lot of small detail out on here, I'm not going to burden you guys with reading a word for word re-itteration, that'd take far to long to type out anyways.


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