# My story - very long - At a loss on what to do



## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

I’m new here, just registered yesterday and have only found the forum in the last week and done just a little bit of reading, mostly in the “General Relationship Discussions” forum.

I’m trying to glean what I can from what I’ve read, but figured I’d start a post as well. So, here’s my story.

I’m 33, an un-happily employed I.T. guy that makes a fair income, married to H, my best friend of the last 14 years. We met in college at age 19 and have been together since, but only married for the past 5 years (as of this coming July). She has a great job that she loves and makes significantly more than I do, so she is the primary breadwinner and therefore has the stress that comes with that. We have a beautiful 2 year old son together. We never fight. I’m an outdoorsman, country boy, and she’s more of a city girl. Not a ton in common but she’d go camping with me and I’d go to the city with her.

She had a rough time after giving birth, probably some part-partum issues. Went through a stage where all she talked about was staying home with Liam, but financially we couldn’t do it. We were in quite a bit of debt and pledged to pay it off so we could make changes.

Our sex life has always been a bit of a struggle, I could never get enough, and she didn’t want it as often, but before our son was born we made it work. She usually “got there” as did I, and we usually made love at least once a week with some “other stuff” for me in between. After the birth though things went south regarding sex in a hurry, she didn’t have ANY desire at all, which I know is not un-usual, and began seeing a therapist for that and the post-partum stuff, etc. She’d “throw me a bone” every now and again but I pretty much just dealt with the situation to not pressure her making it worse. She even had her hormone levels tested to see if there was an imbalance, there wasn’t. Since the baby she’s gotten off once. Foreplay doesn’t exist, I’m really not allowed to kiss her anywhere but her mouth, it was pretty much her or I on top and that’s it, hence, my performance hasn’t been stellar and the overall experience is boring.

She’s been working a lot this year and has been stressed out, I assumed it was all work. I was wrong. A month ago she suddenly tells me that she works so much to avoid spending time at home because she’s so un-happy. She has been hurt by things I’ve said (“I love hunting more than anything and will never give it up for anything \ anyone.” Which was more of a figure of speech, for lack of a better term, than the truth. Also made that statement before we were married and had a kid.) and done (Gone on hunting trips for a weekend to a week while we haven’t gone on vacation since our honeymoon.), for example. Things I can completely sympathize with and looking back, I was stupid for saying or doing them, but she never told me how she felt, she’s just bottled it all up because she doesn’t like to make waves, as she calls it.

She tells me she still loves me, but isn’t “in love” with me anymore, which I believe. We’ve gone through periods lately where I’m hurt or upset and she tries to comfort me, even with sexual favors, though no actual intercourse (can’t remember when the last time we made love was.) Last night was one of those nights. I got upset because she wants to just try and pretend things are ok and I’m tired of that. So I changed into some workout clothes, kissed my son good night, grabbed the dog and went for a long walk without telling her where I was. When I got home, she was in bed, but when she heard the TV come on she came out to see if I was ok, took my hand and kissed me before going back to bed. I didn’t really return any affection as I was still upset.

Right now we are both seeing counselors, but separately. We fight when I say I want to see someone together because she says “They can’t tell me how to fall in love with you again, it just has to happen.”. She still puts work first, I take our son to daycare almost every day and pick him up most nights now even though it’s 10 miles out of my way and less than 10 minutes from her workplace. She used to take him and pick him up almost every day. I have no problem doing this, I’m just stating how she’s changed.

We have made significant progress paying off our debt and could likely be done except for the mortgage next month. This has been the #1 reason we’ve lived rather frugally when we have a really good income. Once the debt is gone we will have several thousand a month “free” to do whatever we want with and I have always intended to vacation more as a family.

She says we have nothing in common, but can’t tell me what she would like to do. Most of the people we hang out with are my friends, but her 3 best friends live all over the country and everyone else is “busy” according to her. It feels like she’s pushing me away, though she’s never brought up divorce and has agreed to not put a timeframe on ‘fixing this’.

I’ve rambled on long enough but I wanted to get as much out there as I could to let everyone see where I’m at. I see my counselor tonight and have ordered the book “Intimacy and Desire: Awaken the Passion in your Marriage” from Amazon to read.

Anything you can contribute would be greatly appreciated. I really in the dumps today.

Thanks for reading and / or helping.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I"m going to be blunt.
You don't seem to bring too much to the table. It's hard for a wife to be sexually attracted to an unhappily employed guy who puts her in the position of being a primary breadwinner. It's also hard for her to be sexually attracted to someone who allowed you two to be childless and in debt to the point where when a child came along you were already "trapped" into your jobs.

As far as her taking some far out comment you made from that past, this has nothing to do with the problem. You have to make yourself happy, fulfilled and confident, and then spread that to her in the form of a good emotional connection to you. 

Your situation is fixable. You have to structure your marriage with you as a Man and Father with her as a Woman and Mother. A Man does not accept a job that leaves him unfulfilled. A man either makes it fulfilling or leaves it. I would move over to the Men's clubhouse, and start reading about Manning Up and take it from there.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

I did not "put" her in a position of primary breadwinner, I make a good living, but she makes 6 figures in a small city working for a large company. I'm not trying to make excuses, but what if I was ful-filled as say a carpenter or auto-mechanic and she was a doctor or lawyer?


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh and as far as "not bringing much to the table", I do 90% of the cooking, at least half of the laundry and 99% of any household maintenance from mowing the grass to home repairs, basically anything that I feel confident in doing, I do, including putting on a new roof with my friends. She does very little. Makes maybe 1 meal a week and it's either pasta, pizza, or something out of a box and we hired a cleaning lady to come once every 2 weeks to do all the scrubbing of the bathrooms, floors, dusting, etc. So, aside from some daily weekly picking up (of which I probably do the most of too as I'm the "clean freak" (but I'm not over the top), and she's the one to leave stuff laying around.)


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

Whatever it is, she's not attracted to you. Maybe it's not that she makes more money than you as Hicks suggested, but it's something.

You said you two have very little in common. Is there anything that you two do together on a regular basis that brings you both enjoyment? It may be that she's just bored and looking for you to spice things up in ANY way. It seems that some men are happy when things get monotonus, but a lot of women need their men to be engaging and fun.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

We both like going to wine tastings around our area at a couple of the local restaurants and I try to make that happen as much as possible. Unfortunately, our favorite restaurant for this went out of business.

When I ask what would make her happy, what she wants to do, she rarely has an answer.

I guess I was "happy" in the monotony. My parents are very monotonous people, they just live the life they have and always have that's what I grew up with so that's what I expected "life to be like".


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

freeboro said:


> We both like going to wine tastings around our area at a couple of the local restaurants and I try to make that happen as much as possible. Unfortunately, our favorite restaurant for this went out of business.
> 
> When I ask what would make her happy, what she wants to do, she rarely has an answer.
> 
> I guess I was "happy" in the monotony. My parents are very monotonous people, they just live the life they have and always have that's what I grew up with so that's what I expected "life to be like".


As a woman who was recently bored to tears in my relationship, asking her what she wants to do just seems more boring. What I wanted was for my husband to take the inititive to spice things up in our marriage. It didn't have to be much, just something different. We were so bogged down in the day in and day out of life that it seemed we forgot how to have fun. It seemed all we did was watch tv. We used to enjoy being with each other. We used to talk for hours and play with one another. We were each other's best friends. Now it seemed we were just business partners in the business of marriage and parenthood. 

My advice to you is to do something different. Think back to what you used to do when you were dating. It doesn't have to be much. My husband recently asked me to play a board game and I was over the moon! If she resists your suggestions, just go about having fun yourself. Attitudes are contagious. If you start doing fun things without her and you have an upbeat and lively attitude, she will start to feel like a wet blanket if she doesn't join you. Ask her to do something with you and if she says no, tell her you are going to do it by yourself but she's welcome to join you at any time.

You have to get her to see you as less of the boring I.T. guy and more of the fun, happy-go-lucky guy she fell in love with. Then she will be instantly attracted to you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't mean to upset you. I don't mean to argue with you. But given what you describe you have to open your mind up to the fact you may not be doing things right in your marriage. You can make less money than your wife. That is not specifically the issue. Butt here are mistakes you are making having to do with sexual attractiveness:

-- Expressing lack of fulfillment in your job. This tells your wife you are weak
-- Doing 90% of the cooking and houswork. At worst, your wife perceives this as female (depending on her upbringing), or at the very least she feels that you are weak in that you are not holding her accountable to do her fair share and she can walk over you.
-- Asking her what would make her happy, and what she wants to do. Big mistake. She wants you to figure this out and do it.
-- Allowing her life to become boring.

The fact of the matter is for a man to get the sex he wants, he has to work hard for it. The most critical mistake you can make is to assume you won the girl and you no longer have to try anything after marriage. A better approach would be for you to take the following attitude. Would you be successful in walking up to a random girl on the street, groping her a few times, and then saying "how about some sex?". The answer is no. The thing is, you have to treat your wife like a girl on the the street you want to pursue.... and work to seduce her, and think about what you do, and how your daily actoins are going to be perceived by your wife on a sexual level.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

freeboro,

Lots of red flags in your story.

If you read the links contained in this thread, you'll see how lucky you are that she doesn't already have someone else.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

No man ever improved his sex life by pushing a vacuum.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

Lots of truisms stated in the last 3 responses and after doing MUCH more reading (including at least briefly skimming over all the threads in the link Conrad provided) I am beginning to "see the light" so to speak.

themrs: "Now it seemed we were just business partners in the business of marriage and parenthood." My wife has literally said exactly this to me and I agree. I feel it too.

Hicks: You didn't upset me, I see where you're coming from, I was just offended in that you made me feel like I needed to make more $ than her and that I pushed her into that role and I don't feel like I did. I see exactly what you're saying though.

Conrad: Thank you, I see the red flags too. I've downloaded NMMNG on the Kindle App on my phone and have already read chapter 1. I can relate very much to a lot of what is being said.

Please folks, keep the comments \ help coming.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

Good for you freeboro! Remember, if nothing changes - nothing changes. You have to DO something in order to see a change in your wife. 

I'm confident you can get your marriage back on track.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Freeboro,

We're down in the Men's Clubhouse.

Many have walked this same road.

Ask anything you wish.



freeboro said:


> Lots of truisms stated in the last 3 responses and after doing MUCH more reading (including at least briefly skimming over all the threads in the link Conrad provided) I am beginning to "see the light" so to speak.
> 
> themrs: "Now it seemed we were just business partners in the business of marriage and parenthood." My wife has literally said exactly this to me and I agree. I feel it too.
> 
> ...


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

Saw my therapist last night after work and we discussed the weeks events and some of the things I've read here and he agrees that I'm being entirely too nice and that I need to give her something to do around the house.

So, I picked up stuff for dinner on the way home that was a dish that SHE makes, walked in the door and set it all on the counter and as she started making it, I played with the kid and talked with her about her day and such, never really lifting a finger to help. When we were done eating I went down in the basement and completely disassembled and cleaned a shotgun for a short hunt for turkeys tomorrow morning. I came up when I heard her putting our son to bed, slipped in to give him a kiss and then went back downstairs to finish up.

I came up and normally would pack his lunch for today but I said "Screw it" and left it for her and watched tv and had a beer while she slept in the recliner. She woke up about halfway through CSI, said "I need to go to bed." gave me a kiss and went down the hall. 

I got up this morning and showered and left for work (her and our son had already gone) and left the bed un-made and I didn't pick-up anything else either like normal.

Tonight she sees her therapist (which scares me as I'm afraid that she's going to suggest separation again, which will break my heart but I'll damn near dance a jig if it doesn't come up) and then has "girls night" with a couple of her friends. Something she doesn't do near enough and I encourage her to do.

I'll pick up the kid and have a good night with him but there will be a messy kitchen when she comes home that she can either deal with tonight (not likely) or tomorrow some time.

I'm not trying to be a pig and I won't make things difficult for her on purpose, but does it seem like I'm on the right track?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I think a better approach is for you to think about how chores and household tasks should be divided and say the following... "Wife, it would not be fair if either of us did too much or too little of the household chores. I know you work very hard at your job and you do a very good job with child but at the same time I think I have started to do too much of the cooking, cleaning (insert facts here). I have thought of a more fair arrangement (insert a fair arrangement or provide her with a list). Now, I welcome your input into this if you feel it is unfair on either of us or you would like to modify it". Then you see how it goes (she accepts, negotiates or rejects)..but regardless of her reaction you stay very calm and stick with a) you want a fair division of household duties b) you have certain standards of house care c) you are willing to entertain her input but cannot waffle on "a" or "b". And stay calm and happy for the entire discussion, even if she goes haywire.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

I agree with Hicks that you have to tell her what you want to do with regards to the household chores. Otherwise, she may just think that you didn't feel like doing them yesterday but it won't be an ongoing thing. She needs to know that this will be a permanent change.

Why don't you ask her to do something with you? Like take a walk or play a game? Be fun.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

You're right, I should take that approach and let her know this is a change and not me being lazy.

Games are a good idea, she loves them, though I have loathed them in the past, I need to suck it up.

Walks are good too, just the weather sucks here so much right now. We're in NW Pennsylvania and it's still occasionally getting down into freezing temps at night and has been VERY windy (gust to 60 MPH), and raining a lot. So pretty much we're cooped up in the house from winter STILL and that isn't helping things.

Tomorrow we have a birthday party for a friend of our sons and I've mentioned going to the zoo at some point since it's supposed to be nice. Sunday I think we're doing a "walk" for some fund raiser. All of which should be fun.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

themrs said:


> I agree with Hicks that you have to tell her what you want to do with regards to the household chores. Otherwise, she may just think that you didn't feel like doing them yesterday but it won't be an ongoing thing. She needs to know that this will be a permanent change.
> 
> Why don't you ask her to do something with you? Like take a walk or play a game? Be fun.


Let her know what YOU are going to do.

Invite her to join you if she wishes.

If she doesn't, do it anyway - and have a great time doing it.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, good news and bad news has come about tonight. She met with her counselor and while she went straight out with friends after (as planned) we did have a chance to talk afterwards.

She admitted to me that she's "checked out" and did so a while ago, but isn't going to leave "tomorrow" and is willing to work on things to see if we can revive the relationship. That has me scared to death, but at least I know now.

After she said that we began talking about what are respective counselors have said. Hers has told her that she needs to be her "authentic self" and I need to be mine. In other words, be real, be honest and don't hide your feelings, which I totally agree we need to do.

I told her I was tired of doing everything around the house and that I need her to start taking some responsibility. I'm doing everything, for her and I'm tired of it. She agreed that I was doing way too much and that she needs to pitch in. Basically by doing so much around here I'm pushing her out of the house and into the "arms" of her job, which is just driving a wedge between us. She agreed and didn't put up a fight so I'm confident we'll make changes there.

We discussed some other things, like how I feel that she puts work before me / us, and she admitted that she did. I asked what would happen if she lost her job tomorrow and she said she'd be devastated. I then said "No one on their death bed ever says "I wish I'd spent more time at work" and there was a pause and a soft "yeah" for a response, so I think I got her thinking about that.

Right now I'm kind of emotionally worn out, while the conversation brought up something that really worries me, she didn't say anything regarding separation so I'm happy about that and the stuff we discussed, while they were a big deal, I think we were both honest with ourselves and each other. I just need to figure what to do next. 

I really want to get us into see a 3rd counselor together (we're each seeing our own now per her wishes) and try to get some of these old, un-resolved issues brought out into the open and resolved. Each time I've brought up seeing a counselor together though she puts up a fuss. Right now, even though she's admitted to "checking out" I feel that she's more willing to take other measures to work on things.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Freeboro,
When a counselor says "you have to be your authentic self" this means the counselor is saying "I give you the green light to check out of the marriage and act independently". Not all counselor's are pro-marriage.

You have two sides of the equation to watch right now. One is as you are doing, standing up for your self and stop allowing your wife to walk all over you as a way of making her happy to save your marriage. This does not work. The second thing you have to do is make your wife feel loved by you. She has to feel you love her and you are not doing nice things to get something (i.e. sex). I am using the word feel on purpose. She has to feel it emotionally. You have to meet her needs.

Currently, she is getting her emotional needs met through work. Therefore you have a big clue right there. What is she getting through work that she should be getting from you? Men admiring her accomplishments? Money? Social environment? Fun? Sense of Purpose?

There are various books on the subject called His Needs, Her Needs and the Five Love Languages. These will give you some more ideas about types of things you can do to demonstrate (through actions) love to your wife in ways she will appreciate and respond to. Even though those books have questionnaires, I would recommend you use your own powers of direct observation and complaints your wife may have made in the past, rather than handing her a questionaire to "give" you answers about what she needs.


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

I've asked her if the problem is that she doesn't feel loved and she says that she does feel loved. I discussed the 5 love languages with my counselor and with her and the 2 she identifies with most are Quality Time and Words of Affirmation (I think that's what it was called). I am spending as much time with her and our son as possible (a lot) and am coming up with ways to have fun as a family. For example, tonight I suggested several activities we could do both while our son was up and after he went to bed. None sexual at all.

I talked to her briefly at lunch and found out she's having a bad day (from the jist of the conversation, about us and so am I). I sent her an email later on saying something along the lines of "bad days are always going to happen, think of the fun things this weekend (she's going to NYC with girl friends) and how happy our son will be to see us tonight. Hang in there and know that I'm proud of you!"

I'm giving her space, I've not made any sexual advances on her this week and told her I would not grope, peek, etc in order to respect her and give her privacy. I'm not going over the top saying "I love you" every second, nor am I always trying to touch or kiss her. When we've had some time to ourselves and watched tv together I ask if she wants me to sit with her or not and let that determine whether I sit on the couch with her (not snuggling) or end up in my recliner.

I'm receiving little, if any, signs of affection from her.

She has actually been coming home from work earlier and has been a big help around the house lately. I think that's a positive change and I don't mean it in the way that there's less for me to have to do.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IF she came home early and is a big help, it is good to express your appreciation. Wife, i appreciate that you came home early and did x, y, z. It shows me you are trying.

Regariding the love lanugauges, you have to use your power of trial and error to see if what you do resonates with her... Don't just read it and start blindliy doing things assuming they are right. Look at her actual reactions.

Do not ask her where you can sit down.

IF providing her words of affirmation, don't relate them to her bad moods. Don't try to talk her out of bad moods. Don't be reactive to her bad moods. Put yourself in a good mood and express it and tolerate mainly good moods in your presence. More along the lines of "I'm looking forward to coming home from work tonight, and we will do have a great meal, fun with our child and some R&R after that". When you walk in the door, come in with enthusiasm.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She feels "crowded". 

Stop saying ILY first. Just stop doing it. Replace it with "See you later or have a good day or sleep well". She KNOWS you love her. She told you that. She does not hear "ILY" at all. She hears "do you love me"? And she is tired of hearing that way more often than she wants to say it. 

LET HER come to you. As for the couch - try to sit down first and give her a choice of whether to sit next to you or not. 

As for her bad moods - UNLESS she is upset with you about a specific issue - just keep it brief with "I am sorry you are having a tough day, is there anything I can do"? 

Thats it. She is going to have bad days. Let her. 




freeboro said:


> I've asked her if the problem is that she doesn't feel loved and she says that she does feel loved. I discussed the 5 love languages with my counselor and with her and the 2 she identifies with most are Quality Time and Words of Affirmation (I think that's what it was called). I am spending as much time with her and our son as possible (a lot) and am coming up with ways to have fun as a family. For example, tonight I suggested several activities we could do both while our son was up and after he went to bed. None sexual at all.
> 
> I talked to her briefly at lunch and found out she's having a bad day (from the jist of the conversation, about us and so am I). I sent her an email later on saying something along the lines of "bad days are always going to happen, think of the fun things this weekend (she's going to NYC with girl friends) and how happy our son will be to see us tonight. Hang in there and know that I'm proud of you!"
> 
> ...


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## freeboro (Apr 27, 2011)

We talked tonight some. She somewhat agreed to go to MC, after I said "The worst it can do is not help, so what can it hurt?" she got pretty emotional and said she wanted to go to NYC this weekend with her friends and have fun and we'll talk about it more when she comes back. As we'd never get in to see anyone this week anyways (she leaves Thursday morning) I really had no choice but to agree.

She said she feels we've grown apart and want different things and that's why she's hesitant to fix things. She feels that I only want to change to keep from losing her. I don't know how to convince her that I'm tired of living the way we are as much as she is. I'm in a dead end job in a boring city with friends that, while they're good, are not great. 

She had a job opportunity in KC that I was VERY excited for her to take, for us to take on a new challenge / adventure together, something we'd dreamed about a long time ago. Plus, it was a way out of my job and this town. She turned it down as it wasn't the right move career-wise. I was more devastated than she was.

I know I shouldn't have, but I told her I missed her. I couldn't help it. She said she missed us, missed being in love, missed having fun.

Why is she pulling back so hard and being so cold?

Hicks, I did as you said by telling her I appreciated her coming home early and helping out so much. I'll work on the words of affirmation and love languages.

MEM, I hear you as well. I've really laid off on the ILYs and am trying to give her space. Right now she's reading in the bedroom by herself as she requested and I'm in the living room on the laptop and watching tv.


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