# Big mistake, now what?



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Okay this is going to be long…

I cheated on my wife this week. I have been trying to convince myself it wasn’t really cheating because I didn’t have sex but I know that’s a load of crap. It was much more than making out and it got very close to sex. So it was cheating and I’m a cheater and a dirtbag. What’s worse is this thing could easily turn into an affair if I don’t stop it. I feel so bad right now and I need some advice to do what is best for my wife and kids.

The background is that my wife and I have been on shaky ground for some time. I have never cheated on her before. I tried to end the marriage a few months ago but we decided to keep working on things. I have young kids and divorce is going to tear them up. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about breaking up this family but now I think I have no choice. My wife has major trust issues due to family history so if she finds out I cheated it’s going to devastate her. I know cheating is never good but I think in my case it was that much worse knowing that this is basically my wife’s biggest fear.

The situation was completely random and definitely not planned. I was out of town on work. I showed up somewhere and ran into a woman I work with. She was drunk and I had a few drinks. We get to talking and she starts hitting on me and telling me she has had a crush on me for a long time. She is very attractive and I’m kind of floored at this information but also thinking she is just drunk. I let her talk me into giving her a ride home (WTH is wrong with me?!). This where things stepped over the line. I wasn’t drunk and the whole time I’m telling myself to stop but then things kept happening like I’m not in control of myself. Somehow I manage to stop things before we have sex but too late to do any good. 

I wake up the next morning feeling hhhhooooorrrrriiiiiibbbblllleeee. I call the OW and we agree that it was a huge mistake and we will never do that again. We agree we will never tell our spouses or anyone else. But then we start texting, and then I call her and we are talking and I realize she really does like me and wasn’t just drunk. So then we continue texting and flirting and this goes on into the night and gets really dirty. So I wake up in the morning and realize that this going to very quickly turn into an affair. I have to stop it but my brain just turns to mush when I’m around her. At this point I know that if I’m alone with her we are going to have sex. I also know that flirting and sending dirty texts is also a form of cheating and needs to stop.

I’m torn up about whether to tell my wife. On the one hand I would feel much better to get this off my chest. On the other hand Its going to kill her and I really don’t want to cause her that much hurt. I also don’t want to lose my job over this. “I should have thought of that before I cheated” right? But what good is that to my kids if we have to cut off their college funds? Of a lesser concern is that don’t want to blow up the OW’s family. I know many of you will say she is a dirty cheater and deserves it and maybe she does. But I don’t want to be the one to do it.

My biggest concern in keeping this thing secret is that I’m worried that if there are no consequences what’s to stop us from having the affair?

The OW seems to really want the affair so I have to be the one to bring sanity to the situation. I told her that I would not tell my wife on the condition that she agree to cut off all communications with me. Every time we talk or text I feel myself getting pulled in deeper and lose all my resolve. I basically threatened her that if she doesn’t cut off communications with me I will tell my wife about us. I read somewhere here that affairs flourish in the dark so I will shine the light on myself to keep myself honest. She agreed to the deal in person and I thought we were good. Then she called me on the phone and said she didn’t really mean it and that if I changed my mind she will be waiting for me. Instead of being a hard-a$$ with her I started getting flirty with her! Since then we have not been in contact so that is a start but I can’t stop thinking about her. I’m hoping that after some time things will settle down for us and we be able to use our brains and think clearly. If she breaks the agreement I will have to tell my wife. That would actually make things a lot easier on me but I’m not sure it’s the best thing overall.

When I got home I made the decision to tell my wife I wanted to end the marriage for real this time. I am not doing this so I can be with the OW. Even if my marriage ends, she will still be married so that is not an option for me. The reason I think I need to get divorced is because I apparently cannot trust myself around other women anymore. I was thinking that I would finally be a man and end the marriage rather than sneaking around like a sleazebag. My thinking was that if I could protect my wife from this information than maybe she can still trust men and will find happiness down the road with someone who deserves her. Instead I’ve manage to make things somehow worse. My wife is taking things super hard and I can tell this is breaking her heart. She was in the bedroom crying all night. I am such an awful person and everything I do seems to make things worse.

How do I minimize the damage to my kids and wife at this point?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You're going to have to _man the f*ck up and tell your wife the truth_. Period.

As for divorcing because you can't trust yourself around other women? Dude, please. Don't try to sell that sh*t here. You say that you've never cheated before, right? Come clean to your wife so that you can be held accountable for your behavior, because you're absolutely correct... a failure to do this will only lead to a lack of consequences for your poor decisions to date, which will only lead to the consummation of a full-on physical affair.

And stop putting yourself in compromising situations where other women are concerned; that should help you to "trust" yourself. DUH.

And as for your assertion that you're not looking to divorce for the sake of being w/ OW? AYFKM? What a load of sh*t. Dude, _go back and read *what you just posted*._ And for the record... for as long as you fail to tell your wife about about your indiscretions to date, *you ARE "sneaking around like a sleazebag".*

You mentioned that OW is married... does she have kids? Is she older/younger than you? Is she your peer, subordinate, or superior?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You do need to tell your wife the complete truth. Your lying to yourself about trying to protect her. Show her enough respect to allow her to make decision about her life based on the whole truth. 

Give up with the rationalizations that you cant trust yourself around women or your brain turns to much when you talk to the OW. Own your decisions as infidelity really has nothing to do with the problems with the marriage beforehand. 

The affair is completely on you. Be honest with your wife, this will minimize the long term effects to her.


----------



## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

From one imperfect spouse to another, you should tell your wife. It can be really really really really hard to do, but important for both of you - for her to know that the reason you decided to divorce her ultimately is about you and your indiscretion, not her who thought you were both going to give it another go and then suddenly out of nowhere she got served.

You have to get accountable, it sounds like you have given control to this other woman in a sense, and it sounds like she is not looking to back down any time soon. You have to tell your wife. For your wife's sake, you might want to do it with some supportive people there, i dunno if you have a n older couple friend who are like mentors, or a pastor, or a marriage counsellor who can give her the support she needs while it all comes out. As much as it will hurt her to hear it all, it would hurt her alot more to find out down the track that she was betrayed (and it always comes out, that is part of what prevented me from going further into a situation i was in not long ago).

It's bloody hard but you need to tell her. Pray to God for strength and grace

Peace


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

I'm sure you are right, If I don't cop up to this it will turn into an affair. This is going to kill my wife but I guess that's better than her thinking I divorced her because of something wrong with her. Hopefully that will make it easier when it comes to it. 

As far as not trusting myself around other women, here is what I meant. I never go out. I don't party and I don't go to bars. This was the first time I've been out in about a year. The first pretty woman that smiles at me and gives me some attention and I do this? I thought I had self-control and was above this BS behavior but apparently not. 

I'm not seeking the divorce to be with the OW. I'm not even sure I would like to spend time with her. I think the whole attraction is because we are both married and so everything is much more intense. All that goes away when I get divorce. The thing is that I love my wife as a person but I've been living with major sexual frustration for a long time. I can't and wont' keep living like this. I tried to divorce my wife over this a few months ago. We decided to give it another go and she promised things were going to change. Things haven't changed and probably won't. The advice here seems to be to decide to live without sex or divorce your spouse but don't cheat. I know that I can't live without sex and I don't want to be a cheater. So that means I need to ask for the divorce. 

We are about the same age and she does have kids. We work in different departments.

Regarding your comment that by not telling my wife I am sneaking around like a sleazebag... ouch. I needed to hear that so thank you.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just so we're clear...

*It's already an affair.*

As for the rest, I wouldn't suggest that you should continue w/ sexual frustration or in a sexless marriage. Not at all. But here's the thing... your affair w/ OW -- or any married woman, for that matter -- has the potential to irrevocably tear apart two families.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm going to go against the grain and my normal advice and tell you, "DON'T TELL HER". 

If your wife has an existing serious fear of being cheated on because of her family issues, and you know about this, cheating on her will be extraordinarily injurious to her. 

The other reason is that you did not go all the way with this woman. And there was a lot of alcohol involved. 

Take it to your grave!! I'm serious. I think in this case it's better. This was a drunken indiscretion and you got carried away in the evening. No sex took place. That's important. 

Your affair is just at the beginning.. nip it in the bud and resolve things with your wife. I'm afraid that most likely you won't and you will use this OW as a confidante. DON'T!!

Turn your focus back on your marriage. Read MMSLP, relationship books and try some strategies other than complaining to your wife about a lack of sex. Unless she has a low sex drive or health issues, maybe you can think about making improvements in how you conduct your relationship.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Therealbrighteyes - I think you are correct. I don't want this to go any further but I'm not stopping it either. 

honcho - I was reading some articles last night on transference of guilt and that telling the spouse is not always the best move. Do you think this is a load of crap? 

QuietSoul - Thank you for the post. How did you tell your spouse?How did things turn out?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dumberer said:


> I was reading some articles last night on transference of guilt and that telling the spouse is not always the best move. Do you think this is a load of crap?


Most people on this forum will say that you have to tell... something like 99% of posters will tell you that.

There is no one rule for everyone on this. 

Either way, if you decide to tell her or not, you have to end the affair as of yesterday.

Do you see this OW (other woman) at work every day? Or does she work at a different location?


----------



## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

dumberer said:


> I'm sure you are right, If I don't cop up to this it will turn into an affair. This is going to kill my wife but I guess that's better than her thinking I divorced her because of something wrong with her. Hopefully that will make it easier when it comes to it.


Divorce is the only option you have. If she promised to make changes before and hasn't you should have called her on it before it got to the point of an affair. It was a deal breaker for you and you should have made that quite clear beforehand. What's done is done now though.

She IS going to be devastated for sure, but you can't let that stop you from being completely honest and open about it now.


----------



## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Dumberer, there were three situations a few months back that i felt i overstepped a line. I hadn't done anything physical, would hardly call them emotional, but i know i overstepped a line and i felt compromised as a result. (See my recent posts). I told my H about the first two, but chickened out on the third one which is a bit more serious. Still finding the strength to tell him


----------



## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

You asked how it turned out. From what i did confess about the first two issues, he was obviously hurt, and troubled by it, and wondering if we'd make it, it's been 6 years and we're all settled down, the spark is not there like it was once. But it also was a good opportunity to talk about what we both felt might be lacking in our marriage and what we can do. Things aren't perfect in our sex life in terms of frequency or general interest levels but they have improved since we talked


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

staystrong said:


> I'm going to go against the grain and my normal advice and tell you, "DON'T TELL HER".
> 
> If your wife has an existing serious fear of being cheated on because of her family issues, and you know about this, cheating on her will be extraordinarily injurious to her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your insight. This is exactly what I'm worried about, that I tell her and it just devastates her. I can face the shame of cheating to my friends and family. I am unhappy in our marriage but she is very good person and deserves to be happy.

On the other hand what are my consequences other than guilt?


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Most people on this forum will say that you have to tell... something like 99% of posters will tell you that.
> 
> There is no one rule for everyone on this.
> 
> ...


She works in a different office and I should be able to avoid her for the most part.


----------



## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

staystrong said:


> I'm going to go against the grain and my normal advice and tell you, "DON'T TELL HER".


I agree with ss. Don't tell her _if_ you can stop this from going any further. If you feel you can't stop yourself tell her. This may be the catalyst for a radical shake-up in your marriage that will either kill or cure it.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

dumberer said:


> Thank you for your insight. This is exactly what I'm worried about, that I tell her and it just devastates her. I can face the shame of cheating to my friends and family. I am unhappy in our marriage but she is very good person and deserves to be happy.
> 
> On the other hand what are my consequences other than guilt?


She could somehow find out later. From OW or OW's Husband, or someone else you know. You were drunk so you don't know what other people noticed. Or maybe you will feel guilty later and tell her or someone else who then spills the beans.

In that case, she may hate you doubly.. for cheating but also because of the excuse that you were "trying to protect her". She may think you left her because you were having affairs, and that it was her fault for not being sexual enough. Then she plummets into a deep depression and she does NOT feel good about herself.

The issue here is that you also respect your wife, and so if you respect her you feel like she should know the truth. This one's hard.. because it sounds like you were really having trouble before the affair, unless you are just blameshifting with us. Which you could very well be doing -- painting a picture worse than it is. 

I don't know. It's a wake-up call either way.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Is this the case where "we kissed" really mean that they just kissed?


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm not sure why you are feeling so horrible about what you did or how your wife feels when you are dumping her anyway and deserting your children. She going to feel worse when you do that than what you did with your co worker. You are weak and it would have happened even if your married was great.

Keep your hands off other women and work on your marriage to keep your family together so you aren't visiting your kids on the weekend. If you do plan to do that then I vote not to tell her.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

this sounds like an exit affair.

don't tell her just get a divorce already. your not happy being married to her just realise it and push for a divorce. it will be painfull but in the end it will be the right thing to do for everybodys sake.

good luck


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I cheated in my marriage. I've posted my story in here before. I ended up ending my affair, and telling my wife I wanted out of the marriage. In my mind, there was nothing to be gained by telling my wife about the affair. 

However... I do think that if you want to continue the marriage, you should reconsider telling your wife. Your priority should be on your committment to your wife, not a promise to another woman. Plus you apparently have to willpower to end this on your own. 

And please... Don't call it a mistake. It was a conscious decision that you made. A number of them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arioch (Jul 9, 2013)

As a recently BS I don't think you are doing yourself or your spouse any favors by not telling her unless you plan to get out of your marriage and get out now.

There can't and shouldn't be any trust in marriage without the truth. My WS is convinced that our marriage would have been FINE if I hadn't caught her AND that MOST people feel that way. I have seen here that some people might feel that way but to me it looks like a minority. 

IMO if you truly love someone you should be honest about your feelings all the time. In retrospect I don't think that would have saved my marriage but we could have split amicably without an affair.


----------



## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

Please end it now.
Tell the OW to never contact you again and make sure you avoid all contact with her. Don't just say it was a mistake, say it was cruel.

Tell your wife what happened, the whole truth, and allow her to decide how she responds. Don't make any assumptions about how she will respond, that is her right to decide and she may surprise you.
Take total ownership of what you did, it was no one else's fault, certainly not your wife's. You did what you did because it felt good and you were selfish.
You have a chance to avoid so much pain and suffering for so many people if you do this now although it will take a lot of courage. 
I wish I had done these things at the start of my A.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

aug said:


> Is this the case where "we kissed" really mean that they just kissed?


It was way more than kissing. Nothing went "all the way" but we were close to having sex.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, also be aware that your wife's "trust issues" may be related to your own behavior as much as to her FOO. Most people who cheat have poor boundaries. And most think their partner has "trust issues" that are causing problems in their marriage. Often, it's the cheater's own behavior - even prior to their first instance of cheating - that has been triggering those trust issues in their mate. Clearly, you've got crappy boundaries with women. Do you honestly think your wife's trust issues with you are entirely unfounded? You did just have an affair, after all. 

And please stop all the helpless hand wringing about the OW not respecting your demands for no-contact. You're a grown man. If you wanted to end contact with her you could and would. You'd delete her from your contacts, block her number and her email, block her in all the social media you frequent, and avoid seeing her in person. That you haven't done these things means that you still want to be in contact with her, but you also want to feel like you "tried" and that continued contact is her fault and somehow out of her control. It's not. It's on you. 

By the way, I'm in the camp who says that you owe your wife the truth. Tell her you've had an affair and are wanting to end the marriage now because you don't think you can be trustworthy. Do her the courtesy of being honest.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Take the affair out of the equation for the time being....is the marriage over? You say you think she is a good woman who doesn't deserve to be hurt. That's all well and good but it sounds like the marriage sounds like its been broken way before this OW came around.
Stay away from this OW. You should only be concerned about where the marriage is heading and then put 100% effort into that answer.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> I'm not sure why you are feeling so horrible about what you did or how your wife feels when you are dumping her anyway and deserting your children. She going to feel worse when you do that than what you did with your co worker. You are weak and it would have happened even if your married was great.
> 
> Keep your hands off other women and work on your marriage to keep your family together so you aren't visiting your kids on the weekend. If you do plan to do that then I vote not to tell her.


That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches. Maybe you are right but I don't know. If I was in a healthy relationship would it have felt so good to be wanted again? I'd like to think I wouldn't have cheated but I don't really know.

I do feel horrible about leaving my wife as she is heart-broken. But is it better to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or get divorced? We have been in couples counseling for 2 years now. I don't meet her needs so she doesn't meet my needs so I don't meet her needs and 'round and 'round it goes. 

I am not deserting my children, I would have split custody. I'm a good father and my wife knows how much the kids love me. She wouldn't keep them away from me to punish me because she is a good mother and would do what's best for them.

Is divorce best for them? I don't know. My wife's parents were divorced and that messed her up in certain ways. I grew up with two parents who fought and yelled at each other a lot and that messed me up in other ways. If I was a better person I would just put my needs aside, suck up my unhappiness and make things work until the kids were out of the house.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I was going to say MAN up.... and tell her the ****ing truth, but somebody took the words out of my mouth.

Reading this actually got me really angry, and as for the people telling you not to tell her well i say Pffft.....

She has a right tho know, and she has a right to happiness, yes its gonna hurt her like hell, but Only for a little while until she gets over you and realizes she can do a hell of a lot better.

If my husband was doing the dirty like your doing, I would want to know, I have a RIGHT to know, even tho it hurts like hell, I want to know what kind of man i am going to bed with..

The way you word things its as if you think you cant help yourself, well you can your just not trying hard enough, its going on and on, and you have had plenty of chances to end things with this woman, but you have not...

You also have said in your post, that you do not want to tell her family as you do not want to ruin them, well maybe you should have thought about that... they also have a right to know....

I do not think you want this marriage, I cant see things changing, you need to start being honest and now is your chance!!!!....


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you made a big mistake and now know how very easy it is to fall into an affair. If you tell your wife, she may end the marriage for you. That's one way to get out. You were going to end your marriage a few months ago and didn't because your wife promised to change. Temporary change is easy but permanent change is not. Change counselors.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

dumberer said:


> That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches. Maybe you are right but I don't know. If I was in a healthy relationship would it have felt so good to be wanted again? I'd like to think I wouldn't have cheated but I don't really know.
> 
> I do feel horrible about leaving my wife as she is heart-broken. But is it better to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or get divorced? We have been in couples counseling for 2 years now. I don't meet her needs so she doesn't meet my needs so I don't meet her needs and 'round and 'round it goes.
> 
> ...


In answer to your question... No i do not think its best to stay just for the children... You can be a good parent and live apart... People do it everyday, and they are very good parents... you do not have to stay together, sometimes it can be worse for the children if you do stay.


----------



## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

dumberer said:


> Is divorce best for them? I don't know. My wife's parents were divorced and that messed her up in certain ways. I grew up with two parents who fought and yelled at each other a lot and that messed me up in other ways. If I was a better person I would just put my needs aside, suck up my unhappiness and make things work until the kids were out of the house.


I spent much of my early childhood wishing my parents would get back together, but I am now thankful that didn't happen. They were not right for each other. If you need to "suck up (your) unhappiness" until the kids leave the house, would you be doing them any favor? You wouldn't be doing yourself any favor, and probably not your wife, either. Can you live like a monk until your kids are gone? 

The way you talk, and the way you acted - it sounds as if you had already checked out from the marriage. If things weren't going well in counseling and the same problems have plagued you for years, then you should have thrown your cards on the table before doing something like this. There might have been a chance to save things if you had demolished the status quo in a more productive way. You seem repentant and like a good enough guy, but you took the easy, sleazy way out instead.

As for telling her... I think you must if you decide to stay, and you'll then have a long road of healing ahead of you. If you are set on divorce and telling her what happened would devastate/damage her, then maybe things aren't so black and white. I still lean towards disclosure.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

staystrong said:


> *The issue here is that you also respect your wife, and so if you respect her you feel like she should know the truth.*


This is the main truth. If you don't tell you will be disrespecting her, treating her essentially as a fool. And don't kid yourself: keeping a secret such as this is never to protect the partner, it is to protect yourself from having to deal with the consequences of your own actions.

Those who advocate not telling, at least as seen on TAM, are usually former cheaters or OM/OW themselves.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Rowan said:


> And please stop all the helpless hand wringing about the OW not respecting your demands for no-contact. You're a grown man. If you wanted to end contact with her you could and would. You'd delete her from your contacts, block her number and her email, block her in all the social media you frequent, and avoid seeing her in person. That you haven't done these things means that you still want to be in contact with her, but you also want to feel like you "tried" and that continued contact is her fault and somehow out of her control. It's not. It's on you.


This is true so I apologize if I'm giving the wrong impression. I'm sure my ego is still trying to protect itself "I'm not really a bad person, it's someone else's fault". I don't blame the OW for my actions. I can't completely cut her off because we work together but I can ignore texts and keep things professional. I just know that if she does contact me it will be harder for me to end things. So far she has not contacted me which is a good. I'm still undecided about telling my wife. I'm waiting a few more days for my head to clear before I make that decision. If the OW doesn't respect the no contact rule then I will definitely tell my wife.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Dude. You're still not taking ownership of your own mess. 

You tell the OW that if she contacts you again for anything other than work stuff, the contact is going to her husband. Better yet, if your marriage means something to you, find another job. 

Second. What the OW does or doesn't do shouldn't drive what you tell your wife. That's between you and her. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dumberer said:


> Thank you for your insight. *This is exactly what I'm worried about, that I tell her and it just devastates her.* I can face the shame of cheating to my friends and family. I am unhappy in our marriage but she is very good person and deserves to be happy.
> 
> On the other hand what are my consequences other than guilt?


You've already devastated her... now tell her WHY.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Why are your actions based on what the OW does??...

Not sure i understand this at all.... You could stop her contacting you if you really wanted to.... there are ways you know.

I think you really need to take responsibility for your Own actions....


----------



## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

Philat said:


> This is the main truth. If you don't tell you will be disrespecting her, treating her essentially as a fool. And don't kid yourself: keeping a secret such as this is never to protect the partner, it is to protect yourself from having to deal with the consequences of your own actions.
> 
> Those who advocate not telling, at least as seen on TAM, are usually former cheaters or OM/OW themselves.


I understand why you think that, but differs from my perspective.

I frequently think the WS should not tell. Not always, but frequently. 

I am a BS. I was betrayed by my first husband several times, and finally told him to stop telling ME. This is how it would go...he would confess, I would feel like HELL for weeks or months, crying, sleepless, in constant pain...and HE WOULD FEEL BETTER. What kind of a deal is that? He is the one who cheated, but I have to feel like garbage while he gets to feel BETTER? It would have been more fair for him to let it eat up his insides with guilt, carry it to his grave and never burden me with it at all. 

In some cases, I agree that the truth is best; a necessary evil to spark change. I just think, other times it's a cruel joke that eases the burden of the cheater while doing terrible damage to the innocent party, to no useful purpose. And we don't do any favors by not acknowledging both sides of the issue.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Several of you have posted that I'm shifting blame and not taking ownership so I want to clarify where my head is at.

Yes, my ego is on high alert trying to protect itself. I'm well aware of that and am trying to self-monitor. Many of your posts have been very helpful with this so thank you.

What happened is not my wife's fault. It is bad to cheat on someone and it is really horrible to cheat in my case because of my wife's history. 

My marriage has been been on the skids for some time. We are both at fault for that. I should have been a real man 2 months ago and gone through with the divorce. I didn't and that is also my fault. My wife's parents were divorced and this has skewed her view. I think she will hang on just to hang on. I need to be strong and be the one to end things. Or triple-down to try fix things. If I am going to stay in the marriage then I know I will have to tell her what happened. The ONLY reason I would not tell her is if we are getting divorced and her knowing serves no purpose. Even then I may still tell her.

I don't blame the OW. This is not her fault and I'm not trying to play the victim here, I'm trying to be honest with myself. I liked getting her texts, I want to call her, to text her to see how she is doing. Logically I know that this is just brain chemicals making me stupid but it's there non the less. Three times I resolved to cut things off and all three times I folded to some degree when in contact with her. Yes I should be in control of my actions and usually I am. It is not easy to find out that you are a weak piece of sh*t so I'm a little shaken right now and I don't trust myself. 

I already know that this affair is over. I think after a few more days of no contact my brain will start to clear up and I can decide what my next steps are.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Faeleaf said:


> I understand why you think that, but differs from my perspective.
> 
> I frequently think the WS should not tell. Not always, but frequently.
> 
> ...


I get this, but why did you stand for the repeated betrayals? (This is a topic for another discussion, I know.) If he had not told you you would not have known who he really was. Is that any way to run a marriage?


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

dumberer said:


> How do I minimize the damage to my kids and wife at this point?


You don't. You just don't fight her in the divorce, don't have your attorney try to negotiate or screw her somehow out of her half of the marital assets, custody will go to her, and pay your child support.

That's is.

You can sit your kids down and try to explain to them that it has nothing to do with them, but really that's like putting a band aid on a gushing knife wound.


But there is something about this that isn't jiving with me. You cheat once then decide you can't be trusted and within one short week you decide to get a divorce??

You have cheated before OR were simply looking to be single anyway.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

dumberer said:


> I already know that this affair is over.


I certainly hope so. If not, I can only hope her husband finds out and comes into the office smoking mad and causes a scene for the both of you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dumberer said:


> That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches. Maybe you are right but I don't know. If I was in a healthy relationship would it have felt so good to be wanted again? I'd like to think I wouldn't have cheated but I don't really know.
> 
> I do feel horrible about leaving my wife as she is heart-broken. But is it better to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or get divorced? We have been in couples counseling for 2 years now. I don't meet her needs so she doesn't meet my needs so I don't meet her needs and 'round and 'round it goes.


In order to end this cycle, one of you has to first start to meet the other's needs. Why don't you just start meeting her needs and put yours aside for a while? It takes two to tango, but only one to end the dance.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

dumberer said:


> That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches.


Even the greatest of marriages are going to have rough patches. You don't get to take perhaps a few small things you may not be happy with and say that is why someone cheats.

Marriage is not for pussies. Marriage is not for the weak, the selfish, or the insecure.

Perhaps your marriage wasn't happy because you aren't the type of person that will be content with having sex with the same woman for the rest of your life. Your 7 year itch took 8 years.




> I am not deserting my children, I would have split custody. I'm a good father and my wife knows how much the kids love me.


The fact that I love my kids, aside from the fact I'll never cheat anyway, would keep me from betraying the person they love. I wouldn't have been able to cheat on their mother and think I'm being a good father by doing something so devastating to their well being.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Faeleaf said:


> I understand why you think that, but differs from my perspective.
> 
> I frequently think the WS should not tell. Not always, but frequently.
> 
> ...


You told him to stop telling you tho...... This lady does not have the choice... shes sitting at home thinking everything is Okay while her hubby is playing away..... I am sorry i really do not think its fair on her...

I mean, a cheater has sex with another, then goes home and has sex with his partner.... this is just disgusting in my view...

Bottom line the BS always has a right to know, however it may hurt at first...


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

dumberer said:


> Okay this is going to be long…
> 
> I cheated on my wife this week. I have been trying to convince myself it wasn’t really cheating because I didn’t have sex but I know that’s a load of crap. It was much more than making out and it got very close to sex. So it was cheating and I’m a cheater and a dirtbag. What’s worse is this thing could easily turn into an affair if I don’t stop it. I feel so bad right now and I need some advice to do what is best for my wife and kids.
> 
> ...


IMO, if you have any hopes of salvaging your marriage, disclosure to your BS should definitely happen. It’s somewhat better she find out from you rather than someone else. Also, if you really feel you do not have much self-control, then continuing to work anywhere near your AP sounds like a REALLY SUPER GOOD IDEA. However, if you have such little self-control then working anywhere with the opposite sex is probably a shoddy plan. Does your employer offer a telecommuting option? :scratchhead::smthumbup:

Note: if you plan on staying with your wife to try and make it work while keeping your cheating a secret, if she ever discovers your affair and the fact you continued to work around your AP….. well….. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes on dday. Discovering your affair along with your long-term talents at keeping that and closely related issues a secret is not likely to bode well for you.

I would like to point out the harm you are causing your wife but it sounds like you have your own narrative and are just seeking validation of such. You're not owning it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have managed to make sure your post made all aware there were problems prior to. “I cheated and I’m a bad guy BUT there were problems beforehand.” So that little bit of information perhaps makes it not so bad to have cheated AND to have kept that a secret from your wife, right? 

Maybe your life exists in a vacuum and no one saw or heard anything with you and your AP but I wouldn’t bet on it. I certainly wouldn’t bet a marriage or an amicable divorce on it. Someone else almost always knows or finds out and is willing, or even gleefully willing to spill the beans to the betrayed spouse. 

There were two strangers who knew my name and knew what my WS was doing. They went to great lengths to find out how to contact me to expose. By the time they found me I already knew, but still….there it is. In their case, one of those two people had been cheated on previously and was disgusted by my WS’s and his AP’s behavior. The other just didn’t like WS or AP and was more than happy to rat them out, just because. 

It’s irritating to read things like not wanting to hurt your wife by not being honest with her. IMO you don’t want to put yourself through the pain of disclosing your behavior and dealing with whatever fallout ensues. After all, you knew she had specific adultery related fears and that alone, never mind the commitment you made by marrying her, didn’t stop you from cheating but now you’re concerned about sparing her pain? Ludicrous, at best, how those who cheat make unsavory and dangerous decisions for their unknowing spouse and then continue to do so, all in the name of pain sparing. :scratchhead:

Regardless of the outcome, first and foremost you should strongly consider IC to figure out how to stop so easily lying to yourself and others or you will continue creating these problems and hurting others and yourself, over and over. 

BTW, do you feel horrible you have hurt and deceived your wife or horrified at the idea she might find out? Remorse or regret - there is a difference.


----------



## Shoshannah (Aug 29, 2012)

dumberer said:


> Several of you have posted that I'm shifting blame and not taking ownership so I want to clarify where my head is at.
> 
> Yes, my ego is on high alert trying to protect itself. I'm well aware of that and am trying to self-monitor. Many of your posts have been very helpful with this so thank you.
> 
> ...



I've been following your story with some interest because I am a little like your wife. I have always been worried that my husband would cheat and insecure about what that would d to me. It is the ultimate betrayal and goes deeper than any other kind. It makes it somewhat worse that I know I could never cheat on my husband no matter how bad things got. My insecurities may have played a role in my husband's emotional affair, I have no idea. I found out myself about the affair after doing some digging but never got all the answers. We have a great marriage now and I have mostly recovered. I know my husband would tell you privately that he is very happy in the marriage now. We both got counseling and worked on ourselves and have a deep love for one another. Every aspect has improved greatly.

Putting myself in your wife's situation I think you should come one hundred percent clean. She will be traumatized but will ultimately heal better this way, whether you leave her or not. I'm not sure why she hasn't fixed things on her end if she is so upset about you leaving, but if you are worried about how she will do emotionally, not telling her is the worst thing you could do. There is too much of a chance that she will find out. You need to own it and go on whether you stay or go. I know you've tried to fix your marriage but please give it one more try. Maybe the affair will help her to try again and you being honest with her will give her the ability to make her own decision having all the facts. She deserves that.

Also, why do you think the OW is not to blame at all? It's true that you are completely guilty for your part and shouldn't use her as an excuse for your behavior, but she knows you're married. Why are you protecting her? My husband was the same way about his OW. He didn't want me to expose her at their work or ruin her reputation. Stop protecting her! She's an awful person if she's willing to hurt both your family and hers! I'm surprised you don't see that well enough to lose all respect for her and interest in her but you re obviously still a little in the fog.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> *You're going to have to man the f*ck up and tell your wife the truth. Period.
> *
> As for divorcing because you can't trust yourself around other women? Dude, please. Don't try to sell that sh*t here. You say that you've never cheated before, right? Come clean to your wife so that you can be held accountable for your behavior, because you're absolutely correct... a failure to do this will only lead to a lack of consequences for your poor decisions to date, which will only lead to the consummation of a full-on physical affair.
> 
> ...


Honestly no one can post anything more true than this one statement. Bite the bullet. Your wife deserves to know what you did


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

vellocet said:


> But there is something about this that isn't jiving with me. You cheat once then decide you can't be trusted and within one short week you decide to get a divorce??
> 
> You have cheated before OR were simply looking to be single anyway.


I have never cheated and I wasn't looking for anything. I came to face to face with a tough situation and I failed the test. I also didn't decide in one short week to get a divorce. That has been coming for some time.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> I would like to point out the harm you are causing your wife but it sounds like you have your own narrative and are just seeking validation of such. You're not owning it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have managed to make sure your post made all aware there were problems prior to. “I cheated and I’m a bad guy BUT there were problems beforehand.” So that little bit of information perhaps makes it not so bad to have cheated AND to have kept that a secret from your wife, right?


I get your point but I do own this. My unhappiness in the marriage does not justify my actions. I'm a bad guy and I know that. 



> BTW, do you feel horrible you have hurt and deceived your wife or horrified at the idea she might find out? Remorse or regret - there is a difference.


I honestly would feel much better if I told her.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

dumberer said:


> I honestly would feel much better if I told her.


Yes, you will....I'm not sure that's a good thing.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dumberer said:


> I honestly would feel much better if I told her.


Why would you feel better if you told her?


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

dumberer said:


> I get your point but I do own this. My unhappiness in the marriage does not justify my actions. I'm a bad guy and I know that.
> 
> 
> *I honestly would feel much better if I told her.*


You would feel better that you told her due to finally communicating to her in honesty.....or.....you would feel better because it would be the final nail in the coffin? 

The goal of confessing is not to make yourself feel better, it's to advise your wife of what's been going in her marriage without her knowledge or consent. To let her know you are not a safe or trustworthy partner and why. To make her aware she should be tested for STD's. To let her know the real reason behind why you want a divorce. 

You do it because it's the right thing to do - for her, not you.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You stated in your 1st post---that your wife spent the night crying, what caused that to happen----are you also abusing your wife----why would she find it necessary to cry, if she does not know you are cheating---on her

You are one very SELFISH person---all you can think of is yourself, and what is best for you---

What you need to think of is what is best for your kids---AND WHAT YOU WILL DO, WILL CHANGE THEIR LIFE FOREVER

Just out of curiosity did you happen to know that YOU ARE SPOSE TO BE YOUR KIDS ROLE MODEL------what kind of a role model are you----and please stop with the crap, that your brain turns to mush when you try to stop contact with this other woman----------Is there a MAN involved in your family---Oh ya---its spose to be you---where did that MAN run off to

Stop trying to bail out of this situation, find yourself a competent IC, and do what is right for your kids and wife---and stop acting like the childish, spoiled selfish brat that you are acting like as of now


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

melw74 said:


> You told him to stop telling you tho...... This lady does not have the choice... shes sitting at home thinking everything is Okay while her hubby is playing away..... I am sorry i really do not think its fair on her...
> 
> I mean, a cheater has sex with another, then goes home and has sex with his partner.... this is just disgusting in my view...
> 
> Bottom line the BS always has a right to know, however it may hurt at first...


Would you want to know even if you were getting divorced? I think OP already told his W that he thinks they should get divorced. They had discussed it a few months prior but I think he made mention of it again. In that case, is knowing his infidelity really necessary or would that somehow maybe lesson the pain of the upcoming divorce?


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Mostlycontent said:


> Would you want to know even if you were getting divorced? I think OP already told his W that he thinks they should get divorced. They had discussed it a few months prior but I think he made mention of it again. In that case, is knowing his infidelity really necessary or would that somehow maybe lesson the pain of the upcoming divorce?


I sure would. If for no other reason than to know I should get tested for STD's.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

dumberer said:


> That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches. Maybe you are right but I don't know. If I was in a healthy relationship would it have felt so good to be wanted again? I'd like to think I wouldn't have cheated but I don't really know.
> 
> I do feel horrible about leaving my wife as she is heart-broken. But is it better to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or get divorced? We have been in couples counseling for 2 years now. I don't meet her needs so she doesn't meet my needs so I don't meet her needs and 'round and 'round it goes.
> 
> ...


Can you sum up what is the problems you have with the marriage, or yourself, or her??


----------



## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> I sure would. If for no other reason than to know I should get tested for STD's.


But in this case, he hasn't actually had sex with the OW. There is not a need to test for STD's.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm just thinking if this was me.

I think the guilt would kill me, and I might have to tell my wife.

But not if I was already taking steps to divorce her. Why crush her?

If what he says is true, he pulled himself back from going all the way.
While drunk.

That does say something. He has a conscience. 

His conscience is battling with if he should tell the truth or if he should spare her pain. He wants to protect himself, I'm sure, but the question he is asking himself does not have a clear cut answer. 

OP, if you believe there should be no secrets in marriage, then you have your answer. What's your current view on staying or leaving?


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Faeleaf said:


> But in this case, he hasn't actually had sex with the OW. There is not a need to test for STD's.


Right. But put yourself in the BS's shoes, are you really going to believe that and count on that as the absolute truth? Certain forms of HPV can lead to cervical cancer, HIV leads to AIDS, herpes is the gift that keeps on giving. WS's aren't known for their honesty and trickle truth/withholding facts is very common. 

No offense OP, I am speaking to this in generalities. 

From everything my WS told me and from all the knowledge I gained about his affair through other sources, they never got as far as PIV sex. I caught on to their EA very quickly. But honestly, I will never really know that as a fact, it's only a conclusion I can draw from the available evidence. Therefore I was tested for everything under the sun on two separate occasions and I'm fine, as is my husband. However, I did not rest easy until I saw those test results for the second time.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Why would you feel better if you told her?


Because this guilt is eating me up right now.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> Right. But put yourself in the BS's shoes, are you really going to believe that and count on that as the absolute truth? Certain forms of HPV can lead to cervical cancer, HIV leads to AIDS, herpes is the gift that keeps on giving. WS's aren't known for their honesty and trickle truth/withholding facts is very common.
> 
> No offense OP, I am speaking to this in generalities.


No offense taken. I did not have sex with her and there is no risk of STD's.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

dumberer said:


> Thank you for your insight. This is exactly what I'm worried about, that I tell her and it just devastates her. I can face the shame of cheating to my friends and family. I am unhappy in our marriage but she is very good person and deserves to be happy.
> 
> On the other hand what are my consequences other than guilt?


OP when the guilt starts to consume you every thing in life will deteriorate.

Every time you feel something is off (and it will be more often than not) you will wonder Does she know?

Sex is infrequent now that will get much worse because of this pent up guilt.

Something to think about.

55


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

staystrong said:


> I'm just thinking if this was me.
> 
> I think the guilt would kill me, and I might have to tell my wife.
> 
> ...


I'm going to move out for awhile and give myself some time and space to decide what to do. If I decide to try and make the marriage work, then I will tell my wife everything. She would need to know so she could decide what SHE wants. If we decide to get divorced then I'll probably keep it to myself. 

Regarding the OW, my head is definitely clearing and I'm seeing her for what she is. I know she has no intention of telling her husband and I don't think she even feels guilty. The guilt is killing me and she acts like we didn't really do anything wrong because we didn't have sex. WTH?! Everything was so easy for her. She has probably done this before which means she is a skeezebag.

I'm not going to blame her for my actions, that is on me. BUT I don't want anything to do with her at this point.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, dear. I have been in a similar place to you. Not nice, is it?

Honesty is how I dealt with it. 


Your wife might benefit from coming to TAM.

We'll be here for you both.


----------



## loopy lu (Oct 30, 2013)

dumberer said:


> No offense taken. I did not have sex with her and there is no risk of STD's.


Oral sex is still sex.....and you CAN get STIs from that too....just sayin'


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

loopy lu said:


> Oral sex is still sex.....and you CAN get STIs from that too....just sayin'


No oral sex either. I'm trying not to be explicit here but it stayed in my pants and nobody "finished". There is no risk of STDs.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I would treat this as a wake-up call as much as an affair. You've had the proverbial slap in the face, nothing will ever be the same again, this is a break point for self-analysis.

Do you think there's any chance of your marriage improving? Or is it beyond that point?

If you're definitely separating then there is no real need to give your wife the full details. Just tell her that you've done a lot of thinking lately, and examined your life, and you feel it's time you parted ways.

If you genuinely want to work on the marriage (and not just avoid divorce to avoid hurting your wife!), you must tell your wife that this drunk woman came on to you, and you didn't stop it as fast as you should have and you feel horrible but realize that it means that your marriage isn't working. Then get counselling! And not just marital counselling, but individual counselling. You need to work on your own self-control. You need to learn to resist temptation, not just avoid it.


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

dumberer said:


> I'm going to move out for awhile and give myself some time and space to decide what to do. If I decide to try and make the marriage work, then I will tell my wife everything. She would need to know so she could decide what SHE wants. If we decide to get divorced then I'll probably keep it to myself.
> 
> Regarding the OW, my head is definitely clearing and I'm seeing her for what she is. I know she has no intention of telling her husband and I don't think she even feels guilty. The guilt is killing me and she acts like we didn't really do anything wrong because we didn't have sex. WTH?! Everything was so easy for her. She has probably done this before which means she is a skeezebag.
> 
> I'm not going to blame her for my actions, that is on me. BUT I don't want anything to do with her at this point.


Just so you know -- this was my wayward husband's plan, too. He even told me he wanted us to live separately for a predetermined period of time. I, of course, was devastated and wanted to know why and what to expect for the future. He wouldn't tell me. Because his reason was the same as yours. We didn't separate because I found out about his infidelity before the planned date, BUT the weeks in between, in limbo, not knowing what the F was going on, were BRUTAL. I cannot emphasize that enough. When I found out what was really going on, I felt a sense of relief -- I wasn't crazy. I wasn't imagining things. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't because of _me_. 

I urge you to think about this. Your wife will blame herself, will wonder, will drive herself crazy, will question everything, if you don't tell her the truth.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

dumberer said:


> I'm going to move out for awhile and give myself some time and space to decide what to do. If I decide to try and make the marriage work, then I will tell my wife everything. She would need to know so she could decide what SHE wants. If we decide to get divorced then I'll probably keep it to myself.
> 
> Regarding the OW, my head is definitely clearing and I'm seeing her for what she is. I know she has no intention of telling her husband and I don't think she even feels guilty. The guilt is killing me and she acts like we didn't really do anything wrong because we didn't have sex. WTH?! Everything was so easy for her. She has probably done this before which means she is a skeezebag.
> 
> I'm not going to blame her for my actions, that is on me. BUT I don't want anything to do with her at this point.


I would ask you to reconsider moving out and separating. Once this happens the odds of a marriage being repaired falls dramatically. You are also kind of setting yourself up for a no win scenario under your premise.

You separate, then later you decide you want to work on the marriage but then you tell her about the woman from work? All you are going to do at that point is open a new fresh wound in your wife and make any R attempt that much harder. 

You cant fix the problems of the marriage by separating. You would be better off just filing for divorce and making a clean break. Just separating may also give your wife a false hope that you may come back, she will put her life on hold waiting.

Divorce limbo is bad enough, dragging it out by trial separations only make limbo last longer and does no one any good. Your either going to try and fix this marriage or you arent. Being wishy washy and taking baby steps one way or another doesnt really accomplish anything.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

dignityhonorpride said:


> Just so you know -- this was my wayward husband's plan, too. He even told me he wanted us to live separately for a predetermined period of time. I, of course, was devastated and wanted to know why and what to expect for the future. He wouldn't tell me. Because his reason was the same as yours. We didn't separate because I found out about his infidelity before the planned date, BUT the weeks in between, in limbo, not knowing what the F was going on, were BRUTAL. I cannot emphasize that enough. When I found out what was really going on, I felt a sense of relief -- I wasn't crazy. I wasn't imagining things. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't because of _me_.
> 
> I urge you to think about this. Your wife will blame herself, will wonder, will drive herself crazy, will question everything, if you don't tell her the truth.


I'm sorry you had to go through this. Was your husband leaving because of cheating specifically or was it the straw that broke the caramels back?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dumberer said:


> That is a bit presumptuous to say I would have cheated even if my marriage were great. I've been married for 8 years and I have been faithful through some very rocky patches. Maybe you are right but I don't know. If I was in a healthy relationship would it have felt so good to be wanted again? I'd like to think I wouldn't have cheated but I don't really know.


Eight years? Wow. Someone give this guy a medal.

And the wheel goes round and round...



dumberer said:


> I do feel horrible about leaving my wife as she is heart-broken. But is it better to stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids or get divorced? We have been in couples counseling for 2 years now. I don't meet her needs so she doesn't meet my needs so I don't meet her needs and 'round and 'round it goes.


Which of her needs are you not meeting? Are you prepared to meet them for OW? Or any other woman? If you answered yes to either of the last two questions, stop and think about this for a moment -- how can you expect that you'll be able or willing to meet them for another woman if you're not able to do so for _your wife of eight years_ and *the mother of your children?!?*

Which of your needs is she not meeting? Sounds like sex. Either way, maybe try this... man up, meet her needs, and see what happens. One of you has to be the one to take the bull by the horns, so it might as well be you.



dumberer said:


> I am not deserting my children, I would have split custody. I'm a good father and my wife knows how much the kids love me. She wouldn't keep them away from me to punish me because she is a good mother and would do what's best for them.


If you file for divorce w/o telling your wife the truth w/ respect to *WHY*, you can kiss all of ^this goodbye, because once she discovers that you've been dishonest w/ her (and don't worry, it WILL happen), and exactly what you've been dishonest _about_, _you're going to see an *entirely* different side of your wife._



dumberer said:


> Is divorce best for them? I don't know. My wife's parents were divorced and that messed her up in certain ways. I grew up with two parents who fought and yelled at each other a lot and that messed me up in other ways. If I was a better person I would just put my needs aside, suck up my unhappiness and make things work until the kids were out of the house.


What's best any child or children is for their parents to stay together in a happy, healthy, and supportive marriage. If that can't be done, though, then yes, a divorce free of animosity, drama, fighting, screaming, yelling, etc would be best.

But that's *very*, *Very*, *VERY* unlikely to happen in your case.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't think he can do it, Gus, and I think he realizes it. He feels bad about it, but he is trying to be realistic. 

I think he has a conscience, and a realistic idea of his capabilities. His wife needs someone who can meet her needs. He knows inside that he cannot. And I think he deserves some credit for being honest with us about that.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jld said:


> I don't think he can do it, Gus, and I think he realizes it. He feels bad about it, but he is trying to be realistic.
> 
> I think he has a conscience, and a realistic idea of his capabilities. His wife needs someone who can meet her needs. He knows inside that he cannot. And I think he deserves some credit for being honest with us about that.


Then I'd point him back to this...



GusPolinski said:


> Which of her needs are you not meeting? Are you prepared to meet them for OW? Or any other woman? If you answered yes to either of the last two questions, stop and think about this for a moment -- how can you expect that you'll be able or willing to meet them for another woman if you're not able to do so for _your wife of eight years_ and *the mother of your children?!?*


If he's unable or (let's be honest) unwilling to meet his wife's needs, how able or willing can he realistically expect himself to be in terms of doing so for another woman?

This is an ultimately self-defeating and self-sabotaging mindset, IMO.


----------



## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

I think not telling your wife would be a HUGE injustice. You're not feeling like you should tell her for nothing. You SHOULD tell her. It's only the right thing to do. She deserves to know that you did this with someone else within the marriage, regardless of you leaving right after.

By the way, it already was/is an affair.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Eight years? Wow. Someone give this guy a medal.


I appreciate the advice from this site. I came here knowing I would get unfiltered feedback and that people would keep me honest. However, please keep the comments respectful. If you read through my posts it should be clear I'm not looking for a medal. 


> Which of her needs are you not meeting? Are you prepared to meet them for OW? Or any other woman? If you answered yes to either of the last two questions, stop and think about this for a moment -- how can you expect that you'll be able or willing to meet them for another woman if you're not able to do so for _your wife of eight years_ and *the mother of your children?!?*


I don't give her the attention and affection she needs. I work too much and she gets neglected. No I don't plan to give another woman what I have given to my wife over the years. I have given a lot to make things work and I'm burned out. I am not seeing greener grass. My wife and I don't like each anymore.


> Which of your needs is she not meeting? Sounds like sex.


Sex, affection, respect.


> Either way, maybe try this... man up, meet her needs, and see what happens. One of you has to be the one to take the bull by the horns, so it might as well be you.


I did this a year and half ago and it did not work, in fact it backfired on me. I think it's because when you put your needs second in a relationship you appear weak. I think this happened to me and made my wife less attracted to me.


> If you file for divorce w/o telling your wife the truth w/ respect to *WHY*, you can kiss all of ^this goodbye, because once she discovers that you've been dishonest w/ her (and don't worry, it WILL happen), and exactly what you've been dishonest _about_, _you're going to see an *entirely* different side of your wife._
> 
> What's best any child or children is for their parents to stay together in a happy, healthy, and supportive marriage. If that can't be done, though, then yes, a divorce free of animosity, drama, fighting, screaming, yelling, etc would be best.
> 
> But that's *very*, *Very*, *VERY* unlikely to happen in your case.


You may be right about all this, I'm guessing you've seen your fair share of this. I haven't given up yet but I'm close.


----------



## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

I would suggest a year of individual therapy with an experienced therapist. Some marriage counseling if it makes sense. If the therapist thinks you are on the right track to repairing your marriage and doesn't feel there is a need to tell your W anything, than I would take that advice. There are times when full disclosure is the only way to go, and there are times when full commitment to repairing the marriage is the only thing necessary to do under these circumstances. Did I miss something, is this the only thing that has happened in this marriage on your end?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, I'm not coming on here to offer advice about whether you stay in the marriage or not, I'm not very objective when it comes to cheating. But I am begging you to tell your wife, either way. If you decide to stay this will be a huge wall that you will never climb over for the rest of your marriage and your wife will doubt herself, causing even more strain.

If you divorce PLEASE TELL HER. This information will help her understand that you are already emotionally separated from the marital relationship. It will help her detach and speed her recovery. Of course it will hurt her, but it is your act that has already taken place that will hurt, not the telling of your actions. Secrets will only make it more difficult. Please be honest.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> If he's unable or (let's be honest) unwilling to meet his wife's needs, how able or willing can he realistically expect himself to be in terms of doing so for another woman?
> 
> This is an ultimately self-defeating and self-sabotaging mindset, IMO.


I think it is where he is. It may be who he is. Time will tell.

He may not be cut out for marriage. Not everyone is.

Only some deep, sincere introspection is going to help him. He seems to be trying to do it here. 

I feel kind of sorry for him. He is weak and he knows it. I just hope he does not get hurt too badly trying to find safer ground. That woman's husband may be a violent and jealous man.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dumberer said:


> I appreciate the advice from this site. I came here knowing I would get unfiltered feedback and that people would keep me honest. However, please keep the comments respectful. If you read through my posts it should be clear I'm not looking for a medal.


Look man, I'm not trying to break your balls. What I've been trying to do is to sort of throttle you out of the fog that you're currently in. It sounds like you're about half-way there.

I don't normally break out the 2x4's this early on, even for WS's. But your initial post was full of enough rampant justification and rationalization that I felt it was warranted. I could damn near hear the hamster wheel spinning. I'm happy to tone down the language, but the message isn't likely to change.

Another thought... if some harshly-worded musings from a random person on the Internet bother that you that much, you're probably not ready for a divorce.

Gird your loins.



dumberer said:


> I don't give her the attention and affection she needs. I work too much and she gets neglected. No I don't plan to give another woman what I have given to my wife over the years. I have given a lot to make things work and I'm burned out. I am not seeing greener grass. My wife and I don't like each anymore.
> 
> Sex, affection, respect.
> 
> I did this a year and half ago and it did not work, in fact it backfired on me. I think it's because when you put your needs second in a relationship you appear weak. I think this happened to me and made my wife less attracted to me.


This is a vicious cycle, and you have to break it. There is a way to command (not demand) the respect, affection, and (as a result) sex that you crave w/o coming off as a weak or needy. Pick up these books for some insight...

Amazon.com - The Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay

Amazon.com - No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover

Both are available in different formats, and I believe that the latter may be available for free as a PDF somewhere online.



dumberer said:


> You may be right about all this, I'm guessing you've seen your fair share of this.


Both IRL and on these boards. The dishonesty inherent to infidelity changes the entire landscape of both marriage and divorce.



dumberer said:


> I haven't given up yet but I'm close.


But honest and realistic w/ yourself about your motivation here. Your tryst w/ OW is what prompted this entire crisis and, honestly, that's understandable. You consider yourself to be a moral man, and now your faith in yourself and your values has been shaken.

But you're also enjoying the continued attention from OW far too much to be objective here. That objectivity -- the 50,000-foot view -- is what we're here to provide.

If you've been in counseling for the past couple of years, then you may need more intensive (or at least different) counseling, a different counselor, or both.

Having said all of this, do I feel that two people who are unhappy in their marriage should stay together just for the sake of the kids? No, absolutely not. The kids will pick up on that, and it's all too likely to irrevocably taint their ability to maintain healthy relationships of their own later on in life.

But the fact remains that you will feel nothing short of absolutely horrible if you don't do everything in your power and pursue every avenue available to you to build a better, happier, healthier, and more satisfying marriage.

It sounds like you've done a lot already. If there's anything left in the tank, it's time to burn it now. I'd start w/ the books that I linked above.

Oh, and also...

*OW IS A MARRIED WOMAN!!! STAY THE F*CK AWAY FROM HER!!!*


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

staystrong said:


> I'm going to go against the grain and my normal advice and tell you, "DON'T TELL HER".
> 
> If your wife has an existing serious fear of being cheated on because of her family issues, and you know about this, cheating on her will be extraordinarily injurious to her.
> 
> ...



I am going to agree with this poster as I am a wife that had these same insecurities, and wish my h had taken his guilt and dirty little secret to the grave instead of making me live the rest of my life with his guilt. Who cares if you freaking feel better at my expense. Let you suffer the guilt for a life time... 

I told him too, had he found it in him to man up and end it right away, and I never knew, then my life would have been a hell of a lot better than it is now. We could still have found a way to D. if he found that is what he needed, ((hell, he could have even made it my idea..)) and then talk to me about the slippery slope he was heading towards because that is exactly where we were heading, he still had the time to turn back... I've gone thur an EA and a PA with my h, nothing compares to when your spouse enters into another physically over and over, months after months ... 

The hard part is going to be for you to stop... stop going back for more with the ow... the ow is unhappy in her life, and she is grabbing on to you for her fantasy away from her misery ... it feel good to both of you now, but it's only going to create all it's own problems, it's own misery, end one dont get into another... 

-sammy


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm not really sure what you want here.

If you want a clean exit from the marriage, do so. Honourably. Don't move out as a trial run, move out and start the legal work to set your wife free to find someone else.

If you want to give it another go, moving out isn't going to help you any. Get back in the game, set up individual and marriage counselling, and tell her what happened.

If you want your affair partner to feel regret so she doesn't cheat on her husband again, tell her husband. This would have the added benefits of relieving your guilt a bit and giving the dude the chance to make up his own mind about his cheating wife.

Although you run the risk of blowing up her marriage, too. Which she has already done, I guess. If you think this is her first affair though, think again. That's pretty unlikely.

Anyway, decide. You can make up your mind about anything you want to do in your life in a week or less. Any longer, and you're stalling. Moving out to get some space is just fence sitting and going to torment everyone.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

jld said:


> I think it is where he is. It may be who he is. Time will tell.
> 
> He may not be cut out for marriage. Not everyone is.
> 
> ...


The worst part about this has been finding out that I am weak. I've always thought of myself as a strong man but my actions say otherwise. It's hard to find out you aren't the man you wanted to be. 

Right now I'm just trying to get my bearings. As terrible it sounds, I question if I can be monogamous. That is tough question to answer right now. The man I thought I was could be. But I'm not that man. 

I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself without falling into self-loathing. I was a god guy. Then I was a good guy who did a bad thing, then two bad things and then three bad things. At what point do you become a bad guy? I have a lot of questions I need to answer...


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

*Re: Big mistake, now what?she*



sammy3 said:


> I am going to agree with this poster as I am a wife that had these same insecurities, and wish my h had taken his guilt and dirty little secret to the grave instead of making me live the rest of my life with his guilt. Who cares if you freaking feel better at my expense. Let you suffer the guilt for a life time...
> 
> I told him too, had he found it in him to man up and end it right away, and I never knew, then my life would have been a hell of a lot better than it is now. We could still have found a way to D. if he found that is what he needed, ((hell, he could have even made it my idea..)) and then talk to me about the slippery slope he was heading towards because that is exactly where we were heading, he still had the time to turn back... I've gone thur an EA and a PA with my h, nothing compares to when your spouse enters into another physically over and over, months after months ...
> 
> ...


I think he should tell her but that's neither here nor there because even if he doesn't (which is most likely, from the sounds of it), there's a good chance she'll hear it from someone else anyway. The AP, someone the AP told but "swore to secrecy" who then proceeds to tell everyone they know (and swears all of them to secrecy too ), the AP's husband, someone at the office who knows. 

Then what? Not only is his BS devastated from what's already happened, she's also then humiliated and devastated all over again....she learns he cheated, lied about it, AND she finds out from someone else.

Without giving too many personal details away, my husband, me, and his xAP all work for the same, very large employer with many divisions. I work in one, completely separate division while they work(ed) for the same one. One division can have as many as 7000 employees so it's not as though everyone knows everyone else.

I discovered the affair on my own but not too long after two of WS's coworkers, both of which I had never met up to that point, got a hold of me after trying to hunt me down for weeks to tell me what was going on. It wasn't so easy to find me because I had switched offices, contact info is rarely updated in a timely manner, and so on. They finally realized they knew someone who more than likely knew me - they were right - and I was able to get in touch with them. 

I found obscure, professional contact information for the OBS on the internet, a person who was otherwise internet invisible. 

So if people are determined enough to find someone, most often they will. It may NOT happen in OP's situation but the chances are pretty good that it will, IMO. 

Believe me, I do see your point about not ruining her life but I'm afraid he already has, she just doesn't have the whole story yet. Finding out from her WS or some random out there, I think the former is the lesser of two evils. She may initially blame herself for the adultery, often BS's do (I did for awhile), but hopefully she will get to the point of realizing OP's cheating had nothing to do with her and everything to do with her WS.

I also believe it is horribly unfair for the WS to know the truth of a marriage while the BS is "protected" from it, in fact I find it rather insulting that so many WS's think this path is somehow better or even honorable of them to spare the person they took vows with of the truth. Essentially treating the BS as though they're an idiot who they continue to puppeteer to protect themselves - which is what I think not confessing really boils down to, protecting themselves. 

I can attest to being a person who never felt "protected" in the aftermath of discovering a loved one had told me a huge lie or several of them. 

Lastly, I'm not at all convinced many WS's who go on to divorce the BS live with the guilt of adultery the rest of their lives, if they do at all or for very long.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

dumberer said:


> The worst part about this has been finding out that I am weak. I've always thought of myself as a strong man but my actions say otherwise. It's hard to find out you aren't the man you wanted to be.
> 
> Right now I'm just trying to get my bearings. As terrible it sounds, I question if I can be monogamous. That is tough question to answer right now. The man I thought I was could be. But I'm not that man.
> 
> I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself without falling into self-loathing. I was a god guy. Then I was a good guy who did a bad thing, then two bad things and then three bad things. At what point do you become a bad guy? I have a lot of questions I need to answer...


I come from the school of thought where the only thing a man has that is of any real value is his honour.

And it's the only thing he can truly give to himself or take away from himself.

You're not on an honourable path.

If it's something important to you, what are you going to do to get back on it?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

dumberer said:


> The worst part about this has been finding out that I am weak. I've always thought of myself as a strong man but my actions say otherwise. It's hard to find out you aren't the man you wanted to be.
> 
> Right now I'm just trying to get my bearings. As terrible it sounds, I question if I can be monogamous. That is tough question to answer right now. The man I thought I was could be. But I'm not that man.
> 
> I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself without falling into self-loathing. I was a god guy. Then I was a good guy who did a bad thing, then two bad things and then three bad things. At what point do you become a bad guy? I have a lot of questions I need to answer...


Just keep being honest with yourself. Just the fact that you are honest enough to admit you are weak is more than a lot of men can do.

Not everyone is cut out for monogamy. If you are not, be upfront with the next women in your life about that.

Also, how about counseling? If you want to be a good person, then surely you can be. But you have to have some rules in your life to live by, and a way of redeeming yourself if you break those rules. Maybe a counselor could help with this.


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

dumberer said:


> The worst part about this has been finding out that I am weak. I've always thought of myself as a strong man but my actions say otherwise. It's hard to find out you aren't the man you wanted to be.
> 
> Right now I'm just trying to get my bearings. As terrible it sounds, I question if I can be monogamous. That is tough question to answer right now. The man I thought I was could be. But I'm not that man.
> 
> I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself without falling into self-loathing. I was a god guy. Then I was a good guy who did a bad thing, then two bad things and then three bad things. At what point do you become a bad guy? I have a lot of questions I need to answer...


You can be monogamous, anyone can as it is a matter of choices and self-control. Whether or not you WANT to be monogamous is a whole other kettle of fish. There's certainly no harm in not wanting monogamy, not at all. Just get single, remain single, and only have sexual relationships with other single people who know the score.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

> But honest and realistic w/ yourself about your motivation here. Your tryst w/ OW is what prompted this entire crisis and, honestly, that's understandable. You consider yourself to be a moral man, and now your faith in yourself and your values has been shaken.
> 
> But you're also enjoying the continued attention from OW far too much to be objective here. That objectivity -- the 50,000-foot view -- is what we're here to provide.


I do like the attention. I spend most of the day pissed off at the OW but there is still an attraction there.


> But the fact remains that you will feel nothing short of absolutely horrible if you don't do everything in your power and pursue every avenue available to you to build a better, happier, healthier, and more satisfying marriage.


This is true. We had something really great once. We have a comfortable lifestyle and great kids. Maybe some time apart will help us BOTH see what have to lose. My wife has some work to do for this to work. I'm not going to settle for the life we've been living. If I knew se would commit 100% to making the marriage work things might look different to me. 



> Oh, and also...
> 
> *OW IS A MARRIED WOMAN!!! STAY THE F*CK AWAY FROM HER!!!*


This is critical for me right now if I'm going to get back my self respect. I truly feel like I'm done with her but will probably come back and re-read this a few times over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I give you credit for your honesty and lack of pridefulness, OP. A lot of BSs could learn a thing or two about that from you . . .


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

dumberer said:


> I'm sorry you had to go through this. Was your husband leaving because of cheating specifically or was it the straw that broke the caramels back?


At the time (1.5 yrs ago), he was claiming that it was the "straw the broke the camel's back," that he'd been "miserable for years" (only ever claimed he was miserable prior to that during {rare} blowout fights), etc.

After d-day, when the curtain was lifted, he slowly realized that he'd been creating problems where there were none, taking issue with the smallest offenses, to justify the cheating -- even before he started cheating. Of course, I made mistakes too and was not the perfect wife, and we are both working on self-improvement while also improving the marriage. 

Had he waited until after the "trial separation" to tell me about the cheating (I discovered prior to the proposed separation as it was), I doubt that I would have been able to reconcile with him. But I still would have been glad that he respected me enough to tell me the truth, and I still would have felt relieved to know I wasn't nuts. At least, not completely nuts. 

I personally believe that any betrayed spouse has the right to know, regardless of what happens in the relationship. And I'm not just saying that from the perspective of a reconciling BW -- I was also cheated on in relationships that I ended.

PS: I would also like to commend you for being honest and open here. I haven't ever cheated on anyone, but I've had to take a long, hard, painful look at myself for other behaviors in my quest to become the healthiest possible version of myself, and I know it can be excruciating to examine your flaws laid bare in the most unflattering light conceivable. I can't imagine doing it publicly (as much as an anonymous forum on the internet is public, anyway). Keep posting, reflecting, and growing.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> I think he should tell her but that's neither here nor there because even if he doesn't (which is most likely, from the sounds of it), there's a good chance she'll hear it from someone else anyway. The AP, someone the AP told but "swore to secrecy" who then proceeds to tell everyone they know (and swears all of them to secrecy too ), the AP's husband, someone at the office who knows.
> 
> Then what? Not only is his BS devastated from what's already happened, she's also then humiliated and devastated all over again....she learns he cheated, lied about it, AND she finds out from someone else.
> 
> ...


From the responses I've had so far it seems like wanting to know differs quite a bit. I really want to tell her but I'm not convinced it's the right thing to do in this situation. You bring up some good arguments in favor of telling her. Other posters are equally adamant that I shouldn't. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do is. I can't put the genie back in the bottle once I tell her. So for now I'm holding off.

Regarding guilt, I'm sure that there is spectrum of responses. Some people just don't have a conscious. I think many (most?) people are able to self justify most things they do. I'm sure it's common for the WS to blame the BS for affair. That way they can relieve themselves of the guilt. Me personally, I feel a lot of guilt. I definitely blame my wife for a lot the problems in our marriage. But not the cheating, that was not her fault. I'm not going to let myself off the hook which is why I feel bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

dumberer said:


> From the responses I've had so far it seems like wanting to know differs quite a bit. I really want to tell her but I'm not convinced it's the right thing to do in this situation. You bring up some good arguments in favor of telling her. Other posters are equally adamant that I shouldn't. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do is. I can't put the genie back in the bottle once I tell her. So for now I'm holding off.
> 
> Regarding guilt, I'm sure that there is spectrum of responses. Some people just don't have a conscious. I think many (most?) people are able to self justify most things they do. I'm sure it's common for the WS to blame the BS for affair. That way they can relieve themselves of the guilt. Me personally, I feel a lot of guilt. I definitely blame my wife for a lot the problems in our marriage. But not the cheating, that was not her fault. I'm not going to let myself off the hook which is why I feel bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's up to you as to whether if not you'll tell your BS but I'm sure you're very aware the internet gives us all a window on others, in many cases it's very easy to find someone and contact them in a matter of minutes. I purposely make myself difficult to find via the web and was a little surprised what lengths my WS's two coworkers, strangers to me, went to when trying to track me down. 

If ultimately you decide to not tell her, just be aware someone else could and be prepared and take full responsibility for the fallout, if it ever does happen. Maybe it never will, who knows.....I just feel strongly about it as I think it would be very humiliating to be a BS and caught off guard with information like that. I would feel stupid and embarrassed, like I was the only one who didn't know . Then I would be very angry.

If you don't tell her, I really, really hope your AP doesn't ever decide to become vengeful and tell her for you. Some AP's can be bunny boilers and get entirely out of their tree when they don't get what they want. I can tell you if the xAP in my situation had contacted me with that information, I'd have probably landed in jail. Luckily for her, she was a real chicken sh it who basically ran and hid when the affair was exposed. 

Despite being a WS, from everything you've written here it sounds like you have a conscience. In the case you file for divorce, I hope you agree to a very generous settlement for her.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

dumberer said:


> I have never cheated and I wasn't looking for anything. I came to face to face with a tough situation and I failed the test. I also didn't decide in one short week to get a divorce. That has been coming for some time.


So then yes, option two, you were looking to be single anyway.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

PBear said:


> I cheated in my marriage. I've posted my story in here before. I ended up ending my affair, and telling my wife I wanted out of the marriage. In my mind, there was nothing to be gained by telling my wife about the affair.
> 
> However... I do think that if you want to continue the marriage, you should reconsider telling your wife. Your priority should be on your committment to your wife, not a promise to another woman. Plus you apparently have to willpower to end this on your own.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Alcohol makes us lose our inhibitions...Sorry, but every decision was indeed conscious and in the raw. Alcohol makes us bypass the super-ego straight to full-ego. Personally, I don't see how it was able to not go into full blown sex. But that's another issue. 

Honesty to your wife is paramount. Tell her the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If she has issues from the familial past, this may cause her to get them addressed professionally anyway. You can't spare her the truth to save her own feelings. She is a woman, a mother and a wife, and needs to be treated with that respect. 

You need to change jobs or tell the OW to do so if she can't control herself. She obviously has issues, including marital ones, and the biggest one of them is possibly drinking beyond her threshold as a coping strategy. I hope you would not consider being with her if indeed the sex hadn't already occurred. God knows how many other men have been there, done that.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Alcohol doesn't make you into someone you are not, it brings out who you really are.

Or as Bill Cosby says, it enhances your personality.


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, the quilt is yours to carry, the rest of your freaking life.... something that will eat with you... that will be what you are going to have to live with. Too bad, you cheated! Telling her is gonna make everything a zillion times worst, yeah, it's the right thing to do as every one says, and yeah she may find out later, just more quilt your gonna have to carry, again, too bad, you cheated... this is the price you are paying... no matter how you slice it, you cheated... this is "our" new world, welcome to it !

-sammy


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Personally, I don't see how it was able to not go into full blown sex. But that's another issue.


I know this is hard for people to understand this but it's true. My conscious was screaming at me the entire time to get the F out. Things kept escalating and I kept backing off. Then she would come back for more and things would start escalating again until I pulled back again. There finally came a moment where I realized that if this went a micro step further I was going to f$ck another woman while married to my wife. This thought was enough to make me stop and end it. 

I don't expect everyone to believe me but it's true. I'm feeling really low today, the fact that I was able to stop things and not go through with it is one of the few things I'm hanging on to right now to keep me going.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Alcohol doesn't make you into someone you are not, it brings out who you really are.
> 
> Or as Bill Cosby says, it enhances your personality.


Google's definition of drunk: affected by alcohol to the extent of losing control of one's faculties or behavior.

People do things when they are drunk that they wouldn't do sober. Think of the phrases like "beer goggles" and "liquid courage". I have clearly stated that I wasn't drunk. Although I had had been drinking, I don't blame what I did on alcohol.

I just think your argument is rather silly.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Alcohol doesn't make you into someone you are not, it brings out who you really are.
> 
> Or as Bill Cosby says, it enhances your personality.


This is incorrect. Excessive consumption of alcohol suppresses the ego and super-ego, giving the id a bit more slack in the chain. Drink enough and you're left w/ ONLY the id, and that's when the fun times start rolling.

In other words, alcohol erodes the WHO, potentially leaving only the WHAT.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dumberer said:


> I know this is hard for people to understand this but it's true. My conscious was screaming at me the entire time to get the F out. Things kept escalating and I kept backing off. Then she would come back for more and things would start escalating again until I pulled back again. There finally came a moment where I realized that if this went a micro step further I was going to f$ck another woman while married to my wife. This thought was enough to make me stop and end it.
> 
> I don't expect everyone to believe me but it's true. I'm feeling really low today, the fact that I was able to stop things and not go through with it is one of the few things I'm hanging on to right now to keep me going.


Believe it or not, I actually believe you.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Dumberer

You got yourself into a situation where you almost had sex with a married woman. You feel like shyt because you thought of yourself as a man that would never allow a woman to tempt you to betray your family. *You did stop the woman from luring you into actual sexual acts.*

You have been in counseling for 2 years and your wife does not meet your needs for sex, affection, or respect. You met her needs for a year and a half and your wife interpreted that as you being weak and lost any attraction she had for you. You do not like her and she does not like you.

*If the above is true and there is not any way to get this marriage SUBSTANTIALLY improved then your life will be totally miserable if you stay married and will probably b worse for your children.* From what you have stated it is just my opinion that your marriage is more destructive than a divorce would be; especially in 5-10 years from now. Although not the ideal, many children have done well when there is divorce and the mother and/or father is very nurturing. I cannot help but come to the conclusion by your writings that you are over 90% convinced that your marriage is hopeless.


I have read where a man must have respect in a marriage or it will fail. Then I have head the same thing about affection and sex. You do not have any of the three! Three strikes and you are OUT!


You seem to have a very high moral standard for your self in terms of your marriage and children. You have a lot of guilt and feel very disappointed in yourself.


You do have some reason to feel failure as you are at least partly to blame for the failure situations in your marriage. However, with your posts it seems that your wife is scarred from her childhood and that is a very hard scar to reverse; in fact some say that it isn’t possible. You are 100% to blame for allowing yourself to get into the position with the OW. I know that your wife’s treatment of you made you a hungry dog for sex, affection, and to be desired but you are not going to get a by on that.



*At this point I would say to you to STOP with your self degration and guilt. Yes you deserve some of that but what is done is done and now you need to look at only what you can do that is best for your self, your wife, and your children*. Your wife seems to be a person that will not help you in your life to any degree for the next several decades. Plan your actions now based upon those next decades.


Frankly your very high moral standard for yourself seems a bit too much for most men that I know including myself. You got yourself into a position that you were close to having sex with a married woman but you stopped it! That is probably more than I would have done if I allowed myself to get that close. It is admirable to have such high standard but life must go on. *In other words forget about you being sinless and faultless and start focusing on making this situation better for you and your children.*


The only good thing about falling off your high standard is that you will someday realize that you can make a mistake and be forgiven and recover. Riding the guilt horse for to long only prevents you from realizing mercy and grace. Yes you have to pay your price for your mistakes and should suffer for some time but is it time for you to STOP and get busy making things as best as you can?


*
You biggest problem right now is not that you got all hot and bothered with the OW it is for you to make the right decision about D or R then focus on that to make the best of it.*


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> Dumberer
> 
> You got yourself into a situation where you almost had sex with a married woman. You feel like shyt because you thought of yourself as a man that would never allow a woman to tempt you to betray your family. *You did stop the woman from luring you into actual sexual acts.*
> 
> ...


:iagree:


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

dumberer said:


> Google's definition of drunk: affected by alcohol to the extent of losing control of one's faculties or behavior.
> 
> People do things when they are drunk that they wouldn't do sober. Think of the phrases like "beer goggles" and "liquid courage". I have clearly stated that I wasn't drunk. Although I had had been drinking, I don't blame what I did on alcohol.
> 
> I just think your argument is rather silly.


I was commenting on someone elses comments on drinking. You can think its silly all you want.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> This is incorrect. Excessive consumption of alcohol suppresses the ego and super-ego, giving the id a bit more slack in the chain. Drink enough and you're left w/ ONLY the id, and that's when the fun times start rolling.
> 
> In other words, alcohol erodes the WHO, potentially leaving only the WHAT.


Convenient excuse. I have been about as drunk as they come in my early days. And I still knew to honor and respect my SO.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Convenient excuse. I have been about as drunk as they come in my early days. And I still knew to honor and respect my SO.


It's not an excuse, it's a fact. And that you were able to maintain at least a modicum of respect for both yourself and your SO while inebriated means only that you weren't drunk enough to "go there".

Either way, I salute thee!


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> It's not an excuse, it's a fact. And that you were able to maintain at least a modicum of respect for both yourself and your SO while inebriated means only that you weren't drunk enough to "go there".
> 
> Either way, I salute thee!


Oh no, I was sh sh sh sh!tfaced!!!


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I've never had sex with someone drunk that I didn't actually want to sober.

And I've had my share of relatively anonymous drunk sex.


----------



## dumberer (Aug 22, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> Dumberer
> 
> You got yourself into a situation where you almost had sex with a married woman. You feel like shyt because you thought of yourself as a man that would never allow a woman to tempt you to betray your family. *You did stop the woman from luring you into actual sexual acts.*


First off, thank you for post. It was helpful reading this today. I think you make some really good points 


> You have been in counseling for 2 years and your wife does not meet your needs for sex, affection, or respect. You met her needs for a year and a half and your wife interpreted that as you being weak and lost any attraction she had for you. You do not like her and she does not like you.


Just to clarify the situation, about 18 months I ago tried meeting her needs for 3-4 months. I don’t know if she interpreted that as weakness but it certainly didn’t have the desired effects. Our sex life actually got worse. It probably came off as weak but I’m speculating here. It’s true that we do not like each other right now. We are BOTH at fault though. I have neglected her and she has neglected me. Did I neglect her because she stopped being affectionate towards me or did she stop showing affection because I neglected her? The truth is that we both got lazy and took each other for granted. 
The deal is that we did have a great relationship at one time. If there is a chance we could get that back it would be best for the kids, it would be best for my wife and it would be best for me. My main questions at this time are 
1)	Am I willing to put in the effort to try and get this back? I know it’s a long shot and I’m tired. This is made harder by my recent experience and knowing that there are other women out there for me. Giving up and moving on is definitely the easier path and more fulfilling in the short term. If we could actually pull it off and get through this together I know I would be happier in the end.
2)	Can I really expect my wife to work on herself in light of my recent actions? If I tell her she is probably done. If she doesn’t outright walk away then I highly doubt she would put in the work to do what SHE NEEDS TO DO to fix things. Maybe she would surprise me but I doubt it. 


> *If the above is true and there is not any way to get this marriage SUBSTANTIALLY improved then your life will be totally miserable if you stay married and will probably b worse for your children.* From what you have stated it is just my opinion that your marriage is more destructive than a divorce would be; especially in 5-10 years from now. Although not the ideal, many children have done well when there is divorce and the mother and/or father is very nurturing. I cannot help but come to the conclusion by your writings that you are over 90% convinced that your marriage is hopeless.


I think in our situation we could manage a divorce amicably. She is a great mother and I am a good father. In our case it could very well be better for the kids to end the marriage.


> I have read where a man must have respect in a marriage or it will fail. Then I have head the same thing about affection and sex. You do not have any of the three! Three strikes and you are OUT!


She does respect me, she just doesn’t show it. I’m not covering for her here it’s the truth. The other two are my big questions. I’m unwilling to accept anything less than a fully satisfying sex life and relationship with mutual affection. I know my wife wants these things too, it’s just a matter of whether or not we can do the work to get there.


> [
> You seem to have a very high moral standard for your self in terms of your marriage and children. You have a lot of guilt and feel very disappointed in yourself.
> You do have some reason to feel failure as you are at least partly to blame for the failure situations in your marriage. However, with your posts it seems that your wife is scarred from her childhood and that is a very hard scar to reverse; in fact some say that it isn’t possible. You are 100% to blame for allowing yourself to get into the position with the OW. I know that your wife’s treatment of you made you a hungry dog for sex, affection, and to be desired but you are not going to get a by on that.
> *At this point I would say to you to STOP with your self degration and guilt. Yes you deserve some of that but what is done is done and now you need to look at only what you can do that is best for your self, your wife, and your children*. Your wife seems to be a person that will not help you in your life to any degree for the next several decades. Plan your actions now based upon those next decades.
> ...


I hear you on the self-beatings I’ve been giving myself. I do need to avoid downward spiraling here. This has been a humbling experience, which has been good for me. I am not religious and am not really judgmental when it comes to sex. Whatever you’re in to man! But it seems like integrity isn’t that big of a deal anymore and many don’t hold themselves accountable to their own actions. I don’t want to be that freaking  guy! Yet I still have these feelings for the OW. I thought I was over it but they keep cropping up. 

As you can tell I’m spinning my wheels right now...


----------



## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

dumberer said:


> 1)	Am I willing to put in the effort to try and get this back? I know it’s a long shot and I’m tired. This is made harder by my recent experience and knowing that there are other women out there for me. Giving up and moving on is definitely the easier path and more fulfilling in the short term. If we could actually pull it off and get through this together I know I would be happier in the end.


Here's a little tough love to add to your spinning wheel.

You are at a place in a long-term relationship where you have neglected your partner's needs for a long time. As you say, it's not super important to break down exactly who stopped meeting needs first. In any long term relationship, there are going to be times when the need-meeting is great, and times when it's a little bit rough. 

But you know something important about yourself, so slow down and listen, because it's not going to be a fun pill to swallow. _You are an apathetic and neglectful partner._ Either you started neglecting first, or your reacted to her neglect by being neglectful right back. 

This is bad news, because it reveals something about yourself that WILL continue to sabotage future relationships. There is no point in leaving your current marriage just to repeat these mistakes in the next one, and the next one, etc.

Don't be fooled by the trick your affair-fogged brain is trying to tell you..."But it's so easy with the OW! Why should I struggle with the wife when I can take the easy road with someone new?" ALL relationships are easy when they start. Both people are in the flush of love and happy to please each other. There has not been the long history of building up disappointments, resentment, and neglect. Those things take time.

But you may as well make your #1 priority to fix yourself right NOW, because you've identified a personal flaw in yourself that WILL tear down any new relationship you enter. Don't kid yourself that you'll find "the right one" and everything will be different. You're contributing to this mess, and trying to walk away instead of fixing what YOU are doing wrong. 

This never works in the long run, because everywhere you go...there you are.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> Dumberer
> 
> You got yourself into a situation where you almost had sex with a married woman. You feel like shyt because you thought of yourself as a man that would never allow a woman to tempt you to betray your family. You did stop the woman from luring you into actual sexual acts.
> ...



I think this is a very important speculation to get right! If it is better for your children for you two to divorce then that is one GINORMOUS factor in deciding your future. Divorce is almost never good for children but there are marriages that divorce is the lesser of the pains.




Quote:


> I have read where a man must have respect in a marriage or it will fail. Then I have head the same thing about affection and sex. You do not have any of the three! Three strikes and you are OUT!
> She does respect me, she just doesn’t show it. I’m not covering for her here it’s the truth. The other two are my big questions. I’m unwilling to accept anything less than a fully satisfying sex life and relationship with mutual affection. I know my wife wants these things too; it’s just a matter of whether or not we can do the work to get there.


At some point you and your wife are going to have to make a concrete decision on the sex and mutual affection. From your posts it seems t me that the decision should be made immediately as you are very much at the end of your rope. I can read how adamant you are about these two issues and no lecture or sweet talk is going to satisfy you; it must be actions without any but…bu…but….

Having respect for someone but not showing it is only a little bit better than not having any respect

















> Quote:
> [
> You seem to have a very high moral standard for your self in terms of your marriage and children. You have a lot of guilt and feel very disappointed in yourself.
> You do have some reason to feel failure as you are at least partly to blame for the failure situations in your marriage. However, with your posts it seems that your wife is scarred from her childhood and that is a very hard scar to reverse; in fact some say that it isn’t possible. You are 100% to blame for allowing yourself to get into the position with the OW. I know that your wife’s treatment of you made you a hungry dog for sex, affection, and to be desired but you are not going to get a by on that.
> ...


The reason that you are having those feeling for the OW is because you are very needy for sex and affection and are weak. From your posts I get the impression that you BOTH have a ton of resentment towards each other and not much hope. This is a situation that you BOTH have not shown much love for each other and in fact you both have been neglectful


> I have neglected her and she has neglected me.


Since you seem to want other opinions I will give you mine.
I would try one more time to R but it must be with competent marriage therapists wither they be professional or non-professional or both. It must be made very clear that you must have affection and sex and she must be very clear on what she needs. If you get past that point then you both have to ask yourself if you are going to get rid of the resentment or at least lessen the resentment to a point that R is much more important. Of course you both will have to get rid of the resentments eventually or your relationship is doomed.. You both must be dead serious and no game playing at all. If you BOTH do not do these things then in my opinion your relationship will end because without affection and sex no marriage has any quality and the resentment will eat you up on the inside.


One last opinion. 
If the above is not possible or does not work you may want to consider separating with absolutely no contact. Just before separating you can put down your deepest thoughts as you have done in this thread. Do not point out where you think that she is wrong just list what you need from her and tell her that you fondly remember when you both met each others needs enough to be very contented. Also tell her what you are willing to do to save the marriage. The separation will also serve as a test run for you BOTH to see what your life will be without R and a permanent divorce. Sometimes a separation can soften the heart and make one see that affection in all its forms are a hell of a lot better than breaking up a marriage. On the other hand I know that unless substantial changes of heart and actions in both of your lives do not happen then your relationship and marriage will be a source of misery.

I think that you are good man of high integrity that has allowed yourself to disappoint yourself and hurt your wife. Your wife has also hurt you but she is a good woman and mother according to you. 

PS The OW is a woman that has shown low integrity because she keeps pursuing you even though you told her to stop. If you do not take the right steps then you will be a man of low integrity.


What do you think of my suggestions


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Alcohol doesn't make you into someone you are not, it brings out who you really are.
> 
> Or as Bill Cosby says, it enhances your personality.


hmm, I was going to make a remark about this that could get me banned. That is how smart I think this statement is. Don't take it personal, a lot of people say this. It must be true then.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> hmm, I was going to make a remark about this that could get me banned. That is how smart I think this statement is. Don't take it personal, a lot of people say this. It must be true then.


Let me guess, you like to blame behaviors on alcohol?


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Let me guess, you like to blame behaviors on alcohol?


No, I like reasoning, logic and philosophy. My passion for that, as in a joyful discovery of an interesting world, often brings conflict with persons making statements like yours.

Alcoholics don't tell the truth at all. Their brains are misfunctioning. That is really all there is. 

For example: drunk driving, see the judgement capabilities, the reasoning, the fine truth the drunk driver displays.

For example: the drunk husband coming home from the pub, beating up his wife for frustration about his miserable life, how fine his thoughts about the truth have come out, showing in his rightful agression.

The only thing you base your opinion on is that among all this crap they also may utter thoughts they normally not would have expressed, thoughts that isolated are not at all the 'truth', but which your statement declares to be 'truth'.

I am spoiling text here.


----------

