# Wife and Late Friend’s Husband



## NoParking

I’m 32, wife 28, married 6 years with a 3 year old son. My wife’s coworker and best friend died 5 months ago. She was devastated. I’ll admit my emotional intelligence is quite low. I couldn’t find the words to say to comfort her (as usual) but wanted to be there for her if needed. For the next 2 weeks she spent most nights after work and the weekend with her husband to grieve and plan the funeral (not alone, his family had flown from across country). I tended to the 2 year old at home. 

Maybe a month later, I have a day off and am laying in bed for the morning. Wife had gone to work. She forgot her iPad at home (which at this point is almost exclusively used by our son). A Facebook phone call starts ringing on it, it’s her friend’s husband. I’m mildly alarmed. Why untraceable Facebook phone calls? How often do they talk? Why during her work hours? Why don’t I really hear about him? I get upset and let her know that. I shut down (horrible habit of mine) and ignore all calls/texts. She leaves work to come home and let me know that it’s nothing and all they talk about is her late friend. I let it go and feel partly ashamed - the wounds are still very fresh for them and he may not have anyone else to talk to. She deletes the Facebook app on the iPad shortly afterward. 

Fast forward 4 months. I log into our cell account to change the billing information. I take a look at the usage. She’s been talking to him on the phone every day during and after work. Sometimes up to 5 calls a day and up to 40 minutes at a time. He’s the first person she calls once she gets out of work. Not a single call when I am present (weekends and after she gets home from work). I can’t see any text info as it’s all over data. I had no idea they talked that much. She has mentioned him maybe twice in recent months (we are getting some work done on the house, he knows some people in the industry and she would mention that she asked him what he knew about this or that person). But several phone calls every weekday (plus who knows how many texts) blew my mind. She spent more time talking to him on a daily basis than her husband, which I’ll touch on later. She couldn’t spend my birthday with me because of a required function after work, but I see that he is the first person she calls once she gets out late that night.

I start seeing red, blow up, and call her at work. Tell her I want to see every single text between the two. She says she deleted all of them. I tell her that she had better find a way to recover them. She continues to claim they talk about nothing but her late friend, what his future plans are, and that she uses him as her sounding board for work issues since apparently I don’t listen. She claims she only ever talks to him on her drive home from work, but many calls are up to 40 minutes. We only live about 20 minutes from her work and she has to pick up the kid from daycare, which means she would have to call him after work and sit in the parking lot for 40 minutes to talk to him before going into the daycare next to her office. I call her out on this and she has no answer for it. Meanwhile I get home from work and wonder why it takes so long for her to get home some days.

She claims to have spent all day trying to recover the texts but cannot. Instead she asks him if he still has any text log. He takes a recording of his phone as he scrolls through the last week or so of texts. All seem benign, almost all revolve around hellos, how was your days, what are you doings, etc. But they are still maybe 5-20 texts a day on top of phone calls. And they’ll just say ‘hi’ to each other sometimes 3 separate times of the day. Any weekend texts between the two also occur during periods where she is out of the house without me. Of course I can’t tell if any texts have been deleted. There are some continuity breaks in the texting but I think I can assume that they are continuations of phone conversations. They text each other more than we text each other.

We’ve been having serious communication issues for years. This isn’t the first time I’ve felt betrayed. Four years ago she struck up a brief inappropriate relationship through a phone game. She talked to him through a hidden password protected chat app. I didn’t see the messages, but I don’t think it got very far because I caught on early, the whole thing lasted maybe a couple weeks from start to finish (but what do i know). We had a few other trust issues involving our sex life and financials, but I never really regained trust after this event. I’ve always had serious vulnerability and ego-protecting issues that need to be addressed, but I essentially closed myself off to her emotionally and have never been able to recover. We haven’t had a deep conversation in years. I spend much of the time feeling like we are strangers and I am definitely much more to blame for this.

I’m at a loss for where to go. I’m miles and miles from being a perfect husband. In a lot of ways I deserve to be alone.Anytime we would hit a rough patch I would be quick to hit the eject button and she would have to bend over backward to save us. She does probably 80-90% of the emotional legwork in this relationship.Naturally I’m ready to call it quits. But I also know that I need to grow up and face my problems instead of running. I just don’t know if I can get past another betrayal, even though it wasn’t physical and didn’t involve deep emotional connection (as far as I know). Am I taking this too far again?


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## oldshirt

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

One of my wife's best friends since childhood died unexpectedly a couple years ago so I do have a similar frame of reference. 

It was a sudden and traumatic event and she did reach out and was supportive of her friend's husband and their two teen kids. 

However it was normal support and contact. she talked on the phone in front of me, would relay to me any discussions or texts that they may have had during the day and she would involve me in the discussions and encourage me to meet with him and talk with him and foster a relationship between me and him and their kids etc. 

It was normal communications and support in a tragic circumstance. Nothing was hidden, nothing was through secret channels of communication and there was no defensiveness or anything like that. 

I'm not accusing her of having sex with him without further evidence, but I do think their contact and communication is definitely inappropriate for a married woman to be having with any man. 

I think you are completely in your right to address this and to enforce reasonable boundaries and to think that this is not appropriate or healthy behavior in any marriage.


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## Andy1001

Your wife is deceitful and quite capable of hiding any evidence that she may consider a incriminating. 
I would contact the other man and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is interfering in your marriage and basically to stop conversing with your wife. Maybe ask him how would his late wife feel about it. 
I’ll give him a slight benefit of the doubt, but not her.
She’s fishing. 
And she has done it before.


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## Marc878

Use Fonelab. Or get someone to recover for you.

That amount of contact is way over the top. You should be concerned.

Now you have blown up so if there is anything it'll go deep underground.


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## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Fast forward 4 months. I log into our cell account to change the billing information. I take a look at the usage. She’s been talking to him on the phone every day during and after work. Sometimes up to 5 calls a day and up to 40 minutes at a time. He’s the first person she calls once she gets out of work. Not a single call when I am present (weekends and after she gets home from work). I can’t see any text info as it’s all over data. I had no idea they talked that much. She has mentioned him maybe twice in recent months (we are getting some work done on the house, he knows some people in the industry and she would mention that she asked him what he knew about this or that person). But several phone calls every weekday (plus who knows how many texts) blew my mind. She spent more time talking to him on a daily basis than her husband, which I’ll touch on later. She couldn’t spend my birthday with me because of a required function after work, but I see that he is the first person she calls once she gets out late that night.
> 
> You've been replaced it seems like
> 
> I start seeing red, blow up, and call her at work. Tell her I want to see every single text between the two. She says she deleted all of them. I tell her that she had better find a way to recover them. She continues to claim they talk about nothing but her late friend, what his future plans are, and that she uses him as her sounding board for work issues since apparently I don’t listen. She claims she only ever talks to him on her drive home from work, but many calls are up to 40 minutes. We only live about 20 minutes from her work and she has to pick up the kid from daycare, which means she would have to call him after work and sit in the parking lot for 40 minutes to talk to him before going into the daycare next to her office. I call her out on this and she has no answer for it. Meanwhile I get home from work and wonder why it takes so long for her to get home some days.
> 
> Not good. Your gut is screaming at you for a reason
> 
> She claims to have spent all day trying to recover the texts but cannot. Instead she asks him if he still has any text log. He takes a recording of his phone as he scrolls through the last week or so of texts. All seem benign, almost all revolve around hellos, how was your days, what are you doings, etc. But they are still maybe 5-20 texts a day on top of phone calls. And they’ll just say ‘hi’ to each other sometimes 3 separate times of the day. Any weekend texts between the two also occur during periods where she is out of the house without me. Of course I can’t tell if any texts have been deleted. There are some continuity breaks in the texting but I think I can assume that they are continuations of phone conversations. They text each other more than we text each other.
> 
> you got what they wanted you to have
> 
> We’ve been having serious communication issues for years. This isn’t the first time I’ve felt betrayed. Four years ago she struck up a brief inappropriate relationship through a phone game. She talked to him through a hidden password protected chat app. I didn’t see the messages, but I don’t think it got very far because I caught on early, the whole thing lasted maybe a couple weeks from start to finish (but what do i know). We had a few other trust issues involving our sex life and financials, but I never really regained trust after this event. I’ve always had serious vulnerability and ego-protecting issues that need to be addressed, but I essentially closed myself off to her emotionally and have never been able to recover. We haven’t had a deep conversation in years. I spend much of the time feeling like we are strangers and I am definitely much more to blame for this.
> 
> Any type of infidelity causes trust issues. And it's for a reason.
> 
> I’m at a loss for where to go. I’m miles and miles from being a perfect husband. In a lot of ways I deserve to be alone.Anytime we would hit a rough patch I would be quick to hit the eject button and she would have to bend over backward to save us. She does probably 80-90% of the emotional legwork in this relationship.Naturally I’m ready to call it quits. But I also know that I need to grow up and face my problems instead of running. I just don’t know if I can get past another betrayal, even though it wasn’t physical and didn’t involve deep emotional connection (as far as I know). Am I taking this too far again?


You need some IC for your issues but you also need the truth. Which I doubt you have at this time.


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## MaiChi

The thing is some of our spouses do not communicate very well and may misinterpret things. If there has been instances that cause suspicions in the past, there is a lot of room for misinterpretations in the present and future. I think that marriage is a very important institution so that couples need to invent strategies for solving misunderstandings sooner rather than later. A lot of couples do not even have their relationship manifestos. They just muddle along and fall out every time they find themselves with different view points. It took us more than 6 months of pre-marital counselling and compiling of a relationship manifesto. As a result we both know what to do in most events that arise. Still we get into difficulties at times. 

So if she feels she needs to support her friend's husband, but she also feels her husband does not understand how she feels, what should she do. It is not enough for us to condemn her we need to say what options she has in this context. Communication between spouses is a learnt skill. It does not come natural to some people. 

We must accept that it is not easy to take two people brought up in two totally different families and put them in one place and expect them to get on flawlessly.


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## TJW

NoParking said:


> I essentially closed myself off to her emotionally and have never been able to recover.


I can understand why you did. Her behavior caused this. You reacted normally, as most of us would have.



NoParking said:


> and I am definitely much more to blame for this.


No Sir, you're not. This is a choice which was made by your wife without any of your input, and without your permission. Your wife has chosen an inappropriate way of "borrowing" a husband.

She may not have become physically involved with either man. However, if she wants her marriage to succeed, then she has to make different choices which put her marriage vows and commitments ahead of her own usage of these other men. That's what it is, it's USE. She has, as a former poster said, "replaced you".


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## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



MaiChi said:


> The thing is some of our spouses do not communicate very well and may misinterpret things. If there has been instances that cause suspicions in the past, there is a lot of room for misinterpretations in the present and future. I think that marriage is a very important institution so that couples need to invent strategies for solving misunderstandings sooner rather than later. A lot of couples do not even have their relationship manifestos. They just muddle along and fall out every time they find themselves with different view points. It took us more than 6 months of pre-marital counselling and compiling of a relationship manifesto. As a result we both know what to do in most events that arise. Still we get into difficulties at times.
> 
> So if she feels she needs to support her friend's husband, but she also feels her husband does not understand how she feels, what should she do. It is not enough for us to condemn her we need to say what options she has in this context. Communication between spouses is a learnt skill. It does not come natural to some people.


OK, she's bad.....


Yes, this is one of those relationships where communication between spouses is broken.

She has it in her to communicate her needs. She has no problem.

You admit it is not in you. 
To your detriment.

What is the answer?

Start talking or start the divorce process. This post of mine, in no way condones secret conversations. 
But circumstances force boundaries down, in some people.

You are not compatible.
You do not meet her needs.


She does not meet yours.
She is unreliable and she is rather close to being a serious cheat.







[THM]-


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## MaiChi

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



SunCMars said:


> OK, she's bad.....
> 
> 
> Yes, this is one of those relationships where communication between spouses is broken.
> 
> She has it in her to communicate her needs. She has no problem.
> 
> You admit it is not in you.
> To your detriment.
> 
> What is the answer?
> 
> Start talking or start the divorce process. This post of mine, in no way condones secret conversations.
> But circumstances force boundaries down, in some people.
> 
> You are not compatible.
> You do not meet her needs.
> 
> 
> She does not meet yours.
> She is unreliable and she is rather close to being a serious cheat.
> 
> [THM]-


I totally agree but seeing that these two are not good at talking, but are good a reacting. (him by taking offence, and her by going into secrecy) It might be better if a third person is involved first. it is possible that they both actually want to continue their marriage but they do not know how. 

We will never know what causes two people who are seemingly in deep love stop communicating enough to cause total misunderstandings between them. Allow someone to introduce them to each other again before its too late. I have seen a lot of couples when they were heading for divorce. From observation I got the impression that it is not a very good experience. 

Better to learn to forgive and to appreciate being forgiven.


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## Oldtimer

If not already, then soon to happen. They are on the cusp of some serious crap going down. Bottom line is that if you haven’t hit the dealbreaker point and want to heal, you both seem to need help. 

Regardless, communication being more with him than with you her husband is a major red flag. As well, using each other as sounding boards 5 months after his spouse passed, to me is a bit over the top. Please note that I do not take anything away from the grieving process, but in my experience, unless you are a spouse, a therapist or family. That process where you need to “ talk” to a mutual friend of your deceased spouse should have ended if not dwindled.

Was he a close friend as well or just a best friends husband?

In my opinion, you need to pull the plug.

I wish you and your family peace and hope that it is only a friendly situation. 

OT


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## NoParking

Thank you for the replies everyone. I don’t exactly have anyone to talk to about this and this gives me a lot to think about.



Oldtimer said:


> Was he a close friend as well or just a best friends husband?
> 
> 
> 
> OT


I don’t think they were particularly close, but definitely closer than I was with his wife. And this brings back a memory - they would often joke that her husband and my wife were personality twins, and likewise with myself and his wife.

Edit: I misunderstood the question - no we were not close, we seem to both be fairly introverted.


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## Marc878

A lady who worked for me had a husband who's best friend was terminal so he stayed over to help out in his final days. He also ended up bonding with the friends wife. After his friend died he left his wife for the widow. 

Don't think it can't happen. I've seen it.


Get her phone recovered if you have to pay for someone to do it for you.

If not you'll stay in limbo. There are way too many red flags here.


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## Oldtimer

I was asking about wife and bereaved spouse. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.


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## Diana7

She has let herself get far too close to him and their relationship needs to stop. As for your other issues some good marriage counselling may well help.


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## Tobyboy

So what has your wife done since you confronted?

Has she apologized?
Stopped contact with her dead friend husband?
Offer transparency?

What about the OM? 
How far does he live from y’all?
Does he have kids?


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## NoParking

Tobyboy said:


> So what has your wife done since you confronted?
> 
> Has she apologized?
> Stopped contact with her dead friend husband?
> Offer transparency?
> 
> What about the OM?
> How far does he live from y’all?
> Does he have kids?


He lives maybe 15 min away from me. No kids.

She spent most of last night trying to convince me that it was all nothing and emphasized the notion that I do not listen to her when she vents about work and needed someone to do that. She also emphasized all the effort she’s been putting into recently addressing some other points of tension in our relationship, which is true, however I was not appreciative of it because I’ve been on edge about this widening gulf in our communication. I don’t specifically recall an apology but it may have been there (I was kind pretty much in a fog). She offered to block his number and also offered Facebook login. I did what I do best - say I don’t care and shut down. 

This morning I couldn’t sleep and took a closer look at the phone bill. She initially told me she talked to him a few times a week, but I saw that it was actually several times a day every weekday. I blew up once again because it actually took an explanation from me for her to admit that these flags are blood red. I Stormed out of the house. Came home a short while ago and a lot of her and our son’s belongings are gone. So that’s where we are.


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## NoParking

And I probably made a massive no-no but it took almost everything in me to actually type this out to a bunch of strangers (thank you by the way). I saw the feedback to talk to the husband, but I do not have it in me to repeat any of this, either written or spoken, so I sent a link to this in a group message to the both of them so that I’ll never have to repeat it, asking her to explain to me how everyone else here is wrong. No response from anyone. I would take that back if I could.


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## OnTheFly

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

Well, that escalated fast!

I'm going to assume you wouldn't harm your wife and child intentionally.

I would like to suggest you carry a VAR (voice activated recorder)..........just in case. 

Don't need any false accusations of DV. 

Try to subdue the outbursts and storming outs.


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## The Middleman

What are the odds of her having moved in with him?


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## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> He lives maybe 15 min away from me. No kids.
> 
> She spent most of last night trying to convince me that it was all nothing and emphasized the notion that I do not listen to her when she vents about work and needed someone to do that. She also emphasized all the effort she’s been putting into recently addressing some other points of tension in our relationship, which is true, however I was not appreciative of it because I’ve been on edge about this widening gulf in our communication. I don’t specifically recall an apology but it may have been there (I was kind pretty much in a fog). She offered to block his number and also offered Facebook login. I did what I do best - say I don’t care and shut down.
> 
> This morning I couldn’t sleep and took a closer look at the phone bill. *She initially told me she talked to him a few times a week, but I saw that it was actually several times a day every weekday*. I blew up once again because it actually took an explanation from me for her to admit that these flags are blood red. I Stormed out of the house. Came home a short while ago and a lot of her and our son’s belongings are gone. So that’s where we are.


It's called trickle truthing which is another red flag. Your only way out is to have a full recovery of her phone. *Get the truth one way or the other.*

Yet you seem to jump up and run like a high school kid because you dont seem to be mature enough to deal with situations. 

It sounds like she may have fixed that for you by leaving. Is that what you wanted?


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## notmyjamie

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

I think they have bonded over their loss. It's possible they spend all the time talking about their grief and about his wife. But, it's possible it started that way and is now transitioning into something more nefarious. 

Your lack of support for her did not help matters I'm sure but that doesn't give her a pass to form a new relationship. I think you need to sit down and communicate with your wife that although you love her and want your marriage to succeed, you are not willing to continue if she continues this relationship. If she were supporting him out in the open that would be something very different. It all comes down to the fact that she's hiding it.


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## Oldtimer

Exactly what the middleman said.


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## Marc878

Contacting the other guy will not get you a thing. If they are having an affair they always lie. Besides he's not the real problem. Your wife is.


Right now you can't control your emotions long enough to try and figure out the truth. You act like a mad little boy throwing temper tantrums. You won't accomplish anything until you learn to grow up.


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## notmyjamie

I would say you need some individual counseling to learn to better communicate and learn some anger management. Flying off the handle doesn't accomplish anything, it just drives your wife away.


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## sunsetmist

Your concerns are valid. Your communication skills are pathetic and you know this. You know what doesn't work but keep doing it. Find some strength, courage and work on this. Did you learn to flee in your childhood? Women want intimacy and connection. They want you to listen--really listen--they don't necessarily want you to solve the issue--they want you to---LISTEN, with head-nodding, eye contact and shoulder pats.

If she has moved in with him, you need to be careful not to harm him---much. If so, insist that your son come home. If she is elsewhere, tell her you want individual counseling for you and marital counseling for y'all.

If you are a praying man start now.


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## SunCMars

You brought the whole matter to a head.

It blew, it popped bad.

Uh, maybe not.

The poison under your skin has been released, sent flying.

Make a promise to yourself to remain calm.

See where the chips land, the pus settles.

Yuk..

Seriously, you handled it the expected way. You proved her point.

Points can be resharpened when life breaks them off.

Be cool, calm and collected.

Surprise her......for once. 

If you really care.

If not, it is 'Tetelistai'


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## NoParking

Thanks again everyone. I will look into individual counseling. 



sunsetmist said:


> Did you learn to flee in your childhood?


Maybe not flee per se, but I spent the majority of my childhood in a household where English was not the primary language. Father remarried someone of his nationality (I’m half) and I never learned the language so I didn't talk much. She hated me for existing (deeply religious and dad never told her he had another kid til after marriage) so I spent most days lost in imagination in my room. To say it was a love-less household is an understatement.

I did find a note she left that said she was staying with a “Work colleague” to give us some space and that she wouldn’t call or text. Not sure what to believe given the circumstances.


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## Spicy

*C Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

Hmmmm...well Hi and welcome to OP and perhaps Op’s wife and deceased friends husband. (There is a sentence I never thought I would type). 

To OP- Yes, your concerns are valid. That said, I would love to hear her side, and see how _she_ feels about your marriage and the way you treat and communicate with her. She may very well feel almost pushed to find someone else that will hear her. 

I lost my best friend also, and you do indeed need to talk about it. I loved talking about her most with her family...us that knew her best. It was a comfort. I imagine both your wife and this gentleman are getting that benefit.

But since your relationship with your wife sounds unstable, she is very vulnerable. It sounds like a large part of that is your fault OP. The friends husband is even more vulnerable. How many times in movies does the person fall for the dead spouses BFF?

Bottom line: If she wants her marriage to you to work, she needs to cut off all communication with him. If you would like her to take a lie detector test (if you feel you will never know the truth)...do it. Married people need to respect their spouses. If her relationship with him makes you uncomfortable, then it needs to stop altogether. You also need to figure out really quickly how you can provide what your wife needs.


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## colingrant

You're doing way too much blowing up and not enough building of evidence. Anytime a spouse or significant other can't talk to another person in front of you, it's a secret. Secret communications are considered to be affairs. In this case, emotionaL at a minimum. Two people grieving over a loved one with whom they had an close relationship with, are two people emotionally connecting and bonding. Male grieving + Female grieving/Communication = Emotional Intimacy. I'd recommend playing dumb and being anything but. Pretend as if you believe her (to encourage her carelessness) while monitoring devices, patterns and moods.


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## sunsetmist

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Thanks again everyone. I will look into individual counseling.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe not flee per se, but I spent the majority of my childhood in a household where English was not the primary language. Father remarried someone of his nationality (I’m half) and I never learned the language so I didn't talk much. She hated me for existing (deeply religious and dad never told her he had another kid til after marriage) so I spent most days lost in imagination in my room. To say it was a love-less household is an understatement.
> 
> I did find a note she left that said she was staying with a “Work colleague” to give us some space and that she wouldn’t call or text. Not sure what to believe given the circumstances.


So sorry for your pathetic childhood. Did you lose your mom too? School must have been a relief? You can buy books that help you know what to say. However, "I'm sorry." is a complete sentence. It is the listening, empathy, and compassion that are most important. Don't flee emotion--bet you did that growing up unwanted at home. Gradually test your wings in this area--IC will help.


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## Rubix Cubed

@NoParking
You never should have sent a link to this site. Now your venting and any advice you are given will be common knowledge to both of them. You may want to pay for a "forum supporter" membership or get your post count over 25 ( I think) and have your thread moved to the Private member's section. You can assure yourself that you aren't overreacting. At the very least this is a serious emotional affair and considering the circumstances and close proximity you can almost be assured it has gotten physical. Her lying about it and deleting texts is guilty behavior. If it was innocent that wouldn't be the case. She knows even the little bit you already know was wrong of her and that is likely only the tip of the iceberg. The fact that you confronted multiple times with no real evidence will make it extremely hard to get anymore. They will go underground with it. If they're reading I'd just like to tell them how ****ty what they are doing to you and the memory of his wife really is.


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## NoParking

sunsetmist said:


> So sorry for your pathetic childhood. Did you lose your mom too? School must have been a relief? You can buy books that help you know what to say. However, "I'm sorry." is a complete sentence. It is the listening, empathy, and compassion that are most important. Don't flee emotion--bet you did that growing up unwanted at home. Gradually test your wings in this area--IC will help.


Mom was on the other side of the country, and while I did alternate some years with her, she is very quiet like me. Father had a large extended family and I craved the interaction with my cousins, but those opportunities were few and far between. I was willing to weather the storm to get to feel like a kid a few times a month.


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## GusPolinski

My money’s on “she’s lying”.

Use iMobie PhoneRescue to recover the texts.

If you’re lucky you might get voice messages as well.


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## NoParking

Rubix Cubed said:


> @NoParking
> You never should have sent a link to this site. Now your venting and any advice you are given will be common knowledge to both of them. You may want to pay for a "forum supporter" membership or get your post count over 25 ( I think) and have your thread moved to the Private member's section.


I think I’m beyond screwed on this one already. Been available to them for 7 hours and I’m not sure much more can be said that hasn’t been said. Playing detective is an exhausting way to live. Maybe I can just assume the worst at this point. Phone restoration apps mentioned earlier look like a good shot though.


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## Hopeful Cynic

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> He lives maybe 15 min away from me. No kids.
> 
> She spent most of last night trying to convince me that it was all nothing and emphasized the notion that I do not listen to her when she vents about work and needed someone to do that. She also emphasized all the effort she’s been putting into recently addressing some other points of tension in our relationship, which is true, however I was not appreciative of it because I’ve been on edge about this widening gulf in our communication. I don’t specifically recall an apology but it may have been there (I was kind pretty much in a fog). She offered to block his number and also offered Facebook login. I did what I do best - say I don’t care and shut down.
> 
> This morning I couldn’t sleep and took a closer look at the phone bill. She initially told me she talked to him a few times a week, but I saw that it was actually several times a day every weekday. I blew up once again because it actually took an explanation from me for her to admit that these flags are blood red. I Stormed out of the house. Came home a short while ago and* a lot of her and our son’s belongings are gone*. So that’s where we are.


She can move out all she wants, but she absolutely cannot unilaterally move your child out with her. Go see a lawyer immediately and put a stop to it. The longer you let it go on, the more time she has to establish a status quo of hogging your kid and controlling when you get to see him. Before you know it, that turns paying huge amounts of child support for a kid you never get to see, while some other man raises him.

Take action on that part NOW.

And that little urgent issue aside, this action of hers tells you everything you need to know. She is not choosing to stay with you and do everything she can to heal the marriage. If she's not choosing you, she's choosing herself (and the other man).


----------



## jlg07

NP, did you drive by HIS house to make sure she isnt staying there?
Also, grabbing your child and leaving needs to be addressed by a lawyer -- that is absolute BS that she did that.


----------



## NoParking

Hopeful Cynic said:


> NoParking said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that little urgent issue aside, this action of hers tells you everything you need to know. She is not choosing to stay with you and do everything she can to heal the marriage. If she's not choosing you, she's choosing herself (and the other man).
> 
> 
> 
> That’s about the gist of how I am feeling about this. I think I have my answer.
Click to expand...


----------



## NoParking

jlg07 said:


> NP, did you drive by HIS house to make sure she isnt staying there?
> Also, grabbing your child and leaving needs to be addressed by a lawyer -- that is absolute BS that she did that.


I only know the area that he lives in. Not the house. And it really doesn’t matter anymore.


----------



## jlg07

Can you check him online to find his address? Can you hire a PI to find out? You know his name and his approx. location -- they should be able to find him with that. For that matter THEY can go check it out and see if she is staying there... I don't know if infidelity plays in a divorce where you are located, but it may be worth while to get proof if she is in fact cheating.


----------



## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Rubix Cubed said:


> @NoParking
> You never should have sent a link to this site. Now your venting and any advice you are given will be common knowledge to both of them. You may want to pay for a "forum supporter" membership or get your post count over 25 ( I think) and have your thread moved to the Private member's section. You can assure yourself that you aren't overreacting. At the very least this is a serious emotional affair and considering the circumstances and close proximity you can almost be assured it has gotten physical. Her lying about it and deleting texts is guilty behavior. If it was innocent that wouldn't be the case. She knows even the little bit you already know was wrong of her and that is likely only the tip of the iceberg. The fact that you confronted multiple times with no real evidence will make it extremely hard to get anymore. They will go underground with it. If they're reading I'd just like to tell them how ****ty what they are doing to you and the memory of his wife really is.


 @NoParking request a mod to have this moved to private !!!!!!


----------



## Marc878

Set up a polygraph and or do a recovery on the phone. Stop wallowing


----------



## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> And I probably made a massive no-no but it took almost everything in me to actually type this out to a bunch of strangers (thank you by the way). I saw the feedback to talk to the husband, but I do not have it in me to repeat any of this, either written or spoken, so I sent a link to this in a group message to the both of them so that I’ll never have to repeat it, asking her to explain to me how everyone else here is wrong. No response from anyone. I would take that back if I could.


I get you're in shock but you really need to stop shooting yourself in the foot. 

You're out of control emotions is just making this much worse than it needs to be.

See a doctor and at least get some sleep aids.

You know better but are doing it anyway. Stop and think for a change.


----------



## Diana7

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Marc878 said:


> A lady who worked for me had a husband who's best friend was terminal so he stayed over to help out in his final days. He also ended up bonding with the friends wife. After his friend died he left his wife for the widow.
> 
> Don't think it can't happen. I've seen it.
> 
> 
> Get her phone recovered if you have to pay for someone to do it for you.
> 
> If not you'll stay in limbo. There are way too many red flags here.


That happened after 9/11. Each widowed fireman's wife was allocated another firemen to visit and make sure they were ok. Guess what, some got too close and ended up leaving their own wife and children for the other woman. More casualties of 9/11. They should have arranged for a woman to take that role not a man.


----------



## Diana7

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> He lives maybe 15 min away from me. No kids.
> 
> She spent most of last night trying to convince me that it was all nothing and emphasized the notion that I do not listen to her when she vents about work and needed someone to do that. She also emphasized all the effort she’s been putting into recently addressing some other points of tension in our relationship, which is true, however I was not appreciative of it because I’ve been on edge about this widening gulf in our communication. I don’t specifically recall an apology but it may have been there (I was kind pretty much in a fog). She offered to block his number and also offered Facebook login. I did what I do best - say I don’t care and shut down.
> 
> This morning I couldn’t sleep and took a closer look at the phone bill. She initially told me she talked to him a few times a week, but I saw that it was actually several times a day every weekday. I blew up once again because it actually took an explanation from me for her to admit that these flags are blood red. I Stormed out of the house. Came home a short while ago and a lot of her and our son’s belongings are gone. So that’s where we are.


That's why women have female friends, because women are better at communicating and need to talk things through. If she needs that then she should go to a woman friend or family member or even a grief counsellor, NOT another man.
As for him, if my husband had died the LAST thing I would be interested in would be having another man around. Would his late wife want him to risk breaking up a marriage? To get so close to her best friend as soon as she is dead? I highly doubt it. He as well needs to come to his senses and see what is happening and stop contact. She needs to think of you and her child, and concentrate on her own family. To stop lying to you. Stop hiding things from you.No wonder you feel hurt and upset, so would I be. 

As for her leaving with the child, that is completely wrong and unacceptable. SO upsetting and unsettling for the child, to so suddenly be taken away from their home and daddy. She must tell you where she is and make sure the child can see their own daddy. If she wont then get legal advise. 

NONE of this is your fault OP. Many men aren't that good at communicating, that is NO excuse for their wives to go running to another man. I know so many affairs that started with 2 people getting too close, sometimes after a bereavement. At the very least they are far too close emotionally, any meeting with him and help that he is given MUST be with you both although if the marriage has any hope she really needs to stop any communication with him.


----------



## Mr.Married

Are you on steroids by chance ????


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Mr.Married said:


> Are you on steroids by chance ????


A stab in the dark.

An off-the-wall question, coming out of the blue, out of the ether, the Ethernet, this internet blog.

An unfiltered query.

A statement having no initial reference or 'apparent' stimulus.

Maybe an intuitive tingle, fueled by some past observances.





[THM]- King Brian


----------



## Mr.Married

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



SunCMars said:


> A stab in the dark.
> 
> An off-the-wall question, coming out of the blue, out of the ether, the Ethernet, this internet blog.
> 
> An unfiltered query.
> 
> A statement having no initial reference or 'apparent' stimulus.
> 
> Maybe an intuitive tingle, fueled by some past observances.
> 
> [THM]- King Brian



I had a friend who couldn't keep his cool ........ turned out he was on the juice.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Mr.Married said:


> I had a friend who couldn't keep his cool ........ turned out he was on the juice.


I know that man.
Yes.

Many of them.

They come from a Red Planet.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> And I probably made a massive no-no but it took almost everything in me to actually type this out to a bunch of strangers (thank you by the way). I saw the feedback to talk to the husband, but I do not have it in me to repeat any of this, either written or spoken, so I sent a link to this in a group message to the both of them so that I’ll never have to repeat it, asking her to explain to me how everyone else here is wrong. No response from anyone. I would take that back if I could.


The two cheaters are reading this? Big mistake on your part. Anything anyone advises you to do or recommends for you is now going to be seen by these two liars and they'll always be two steps *ahead* of you. I wish you hadn't done that.

As the others have suggested, get this thread moved to the Private board ASAP.

Time to lawyer up, and fast. Just because you weren't the best husband and had trouble processing your feelings doesn't mean you deserved to be betrayed, lied to, humiliated and taken for a fool by these two lying, cheating ass-clowns. Call a lawyer NOW.


----------



## NoParking

Mr.Married said:


> Are you on steroids by chance ????


I wish. The emotional outbursts have gotten significantly worse over the last few years now that I think about it. They were not this bad.

Well I’ve slept maybe a total of 5 hours the last two nights and have not been able to eat since Friday. Physically I feel at my lowest point in as long as I can remember. I’m exhausted. The relationship was rocky before this and after this discovery I don’t feel it is recoverable. I don’t have the energy for it. I did get texts regarding the thread, she read it later last night and seemed pretty upset about some of the things that were said. She assured that she was at her coworker’s house, but she is also a proven liar. 

I felt like an idiot after initially sending her the link. But she tried to make me feel crazy for thinking that their relationship was inappropriate, it felt good for her to see the consensus of others here that it was.


----------



## lucy999

Am I correct in saying you have zero clue where your child is??? Her staying with "a coworker" isn't good enough. You need to know exactly where TF your child is.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Diana7 said:


> That happened after 9/11. Each widowed fireman's wife was allocated another firemen to visit and make sure they were ok. Guess what, some got too close and ended up leaving their own wife and children for the other woman. More casualties of 9/11. They should have arranged for a woman to take that role not a man.


Thanks for posting this. I was going to say something the other day, but didn't know too many details so I didn't.

So horrible.


----------



## red oak

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I wish. The emotional outbursts have gotten significantly worse over the last few years now that I think about it. They were not this bad.
> 
> Well I’ve slept maybe a total of 5 hours the last two nights and have not been able to eat since Friday. Physically I feel at my lowest point in as long as I can remember. I’m exhausted. The relationship was rocky before this and after this discovery I don’t feel it is recoverable. I don’t have the energy for it. I did get texts regarding the thread, she read it later last night and seemed pretty upset about some of the things that were said. She assured that she was at her coworker’s house, but she is also a proven liar.
> 
> I felt like an idiot after initially sending her the link. But she tried to make me feel crazy for thinking that their relationship was inappropriate, it felt good for her to see the consensus of others here that it was.


Try to get some rest, eat something.

Fact your wife hid it from you shows she knew it was inappropriate. She was disrespecting her own marriage, child, and you. Taking the child without trying to work it out was selfish, controlling, and showed no consideration for the child or you, unless you were being physical.

Use the old rule: If you can't do it, or speak of it in your spouse's presence it's detrimental to the relationship and don't need to be doing it at all.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I wish. The emotional outbursts have gotten significantly worse over the last few years now that I think about it. They were not this bad.
> 
> Well I’ve slept maybe a total of 5 hours the last two nights and have not been able to eat since Friday. Physically I feel at my lowest point in as long as I can remember. I’m exhausted. The relationship was rocky before this and after this discovery I don’t feel it is recoverable. I don’t have the energy for it. I did get texts regarding the thread, she read it later last night and seemed pretty upset about some of the things that were said. She assured that she was at her coworker’s house, but she is also a proven liar.
> 
> I felt like an idiot after initially sending her the link. But she tried to make me feel crazy for thinking that their relationship was inappropriate, it felt good for her to see the consensus of others here that it was.


Hunger does this, it weakens the body, it energizes the angry creature within.

Look at a hungry lion, then look at one recently fed. The difference is astounding.

Sleep deprivation causes lapses of judgement, weakens the civility within.

Sleep should be an anxious persons first bottle of medicine. 

His or hers first line of defense against hasty things done....and so regretted.





[THM]-


----------



## SunCMars

Some things play a role in angry outbursts.

Certain medications.
Alcohol.
Illicit drugs.

Ongoing stress.

Bad luck.
More bad luck.

No respite, no breathing room.

No REM sleep.
Low blood sugar.

A close and personal mate who never lets up on the serial jabs, jabbing, verbal sniping.

Many of these things, working together, working on, and against you.





[THM]- SCM


----------



## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I wish. The emotional outbursts have gotten significantly worse over the last few years now that I think about it. They were not this bad.
> 
> Well I’ve slept maybe a total of 5 hours the last two nights and have not been able to eat since Friday. Physically I feel at my lowest point in as long as I can remember. I’m exhausted. *The relationship was rocky before this and after this discovery I don’t feel it is recoverable.* I don’t have the energy for it. I did get texts regarding the thread, she read it later last night and seemed pretty upset about some of the things that were said. She assured that she was at her coworker’s house, but she is also a proven liar.
> 
> I felt like an idiot after initially sending her the link. But she tried to make me feel crazy for thinking that their relationship was inappropriate, it felt good for her to see the consensus of others here that it was.


Ok then see an attorney and get the ball rolling. If not you'll just waste a lot of time and life on a worthless venture


----------



## SunCMars

One other thing......

I now and then mention this. 
Actually, SunCMars touches this.
It is not taken well, not to heart, nor is it believed.

It is those outside forces that have come in to impinge.

They are often cyclical, rarely a one bad-trip pony.

The seven year itch, those longer cycles, yes those.

There is no 'ducking' these, no quacking them away.

Ah, they are to endured.

When both loving parties know of them and believe in them....

They can be painfully laughed at and scoffed at.....quietly.

Do not poke the Bear in the Sky, or in the woods.

Especially if he has a Ranger hat on.

Yes!





[THM]- The Typist I


----------



## SunCMars

The damage is done, Humpty Dumpty is broken.

He can not be remade.

You can, your wife can.....separately.

In the next go-round, the next marriages.

You have the most valuable thing of all at your finger tips.....

Time.

On this, I remain envious.





[THM]- THRD


----------



## SunCMars

Ah, when your wife's best friend died, she took you with her.

Was this her wish? Or your' wife's wish?

In this long journey, you are only at the half way point. 

Jump off the Cóiste Bodhar, now, before it is too late.

You have my permission. I will place a net under you.





[THM]- King Brian


----------



## Betrayedone

I'll tell you where to go......right to your lawyer's office and get the paperwork started. You guys are toast!


----------



## alte Dame

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

Since it's possible that she is reading this as well as you, I will say the following:

- Her doubling down on the 'he's unreasonable and angry and we need space, so it's OK for me to take our child and leave him' rationale will not help her any. The courts won't look kindly on her taking your child to an undisclosed location.

- Your lack of sleep cannot be helping anything - see a doctor this week and try to get some help with your sleep. Try hard to eat properly and drink fluids. If you can't eat, buy a nutritional supplement like Ensure and try to choke it down.

- I think you should go to an attorney. Her behavior has done three things, in my opinion: 

1) It has been indicative of an affair - she spends far more time in intimate conversation with her dead friend's husband that she does with you. She can't blame you for that; you didn't make her do it. If your communication is a problem, she logically has lots of choices other than finding another man to take your place in the communication scenario. If it's not a physical affair, it's certainly an emotional affair. Many people don't recognize the reality of emotional affairs until they experience them. They are just as out of bounds in a marriage as physical affairs. And extremely hurtful.

2) It has shown you that your W can hide things from you and take your child away.

3) It has shown everyone that your W can have an inappropriate relationship with her best friend's husband. Bonding in grief doesn't justify treating a spouse as the 'less favored' one. She may think that she is doing God's work by being there for the OM, but many, many people feel that behavior like that is not respectable.

- She has been paying attention to her feelings and his feelings, but not your feelings. After someone dies, it's certainly expected that you do this for a while. I doubt, though, that she has really considered your feelings even at this point. You're a human being who can hurt just like any other human being. You made the biggest decision of your life to marry her and create a family. You deserve to have your feelings considered. If she really loves you, she will hurt that she has hurt you.

- The others have weighed in on what you have told us about your own background and personality. I second what everyone says about you getting your own therapy to deal with your issues, including the hurt of the betrayal that is ongoing.

ETA: Forgot to mention that you should protect yourself against possible DV accusations. Make sure that your interactions are recorded or witnessed (by an honest broker) in some way.


----------



## Jaded1

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

OP, I mean you no disrespect here.

But you've really mucked up how this whole situation could have been handled. I think you've acknowledged as much already.

*If your wife is indeed reading this, perhaps she can join to offer her side of this story as well*.. but for now, all we have is your take on your situation.

Based on what you have shared here, you are not responsible for your wife's actions, but you are responsible for pushing her away with your angry emotional outbursts, and shutting down when the opposite reactions were called for. 

You can start by as other have suggested, seeking individual counseling for yourself ASAP. However, it could be too little too late. If as you've stated, your wife and the other man had much in common before her friend died, you may have without intending to do so, pushed her even closer to him.

You are not responsible for her bad choices, or intentional deceit. But you are responsible for your own conduct and lack of communication skills that contributed to pushing her further away.

It may or may not be too late for you to turn this around, but you have to get a grip and start dealing with things like a rational adult.


----------



## NoParking

Jaded1 said:


> *If your wife is indeed reading this, perhaps she can join to offer her side of this story as well*.. but for now, all we have is your take on your situation.


I don’t think she is reading any longer. We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts. I yell and break things - I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that. Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


----------



## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I don’t think she is reading any longer. We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts. *I yell and break things - I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that.* Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


It's still abusive. There is no excuse. You are responsible for your actions.

Think of the effect this will have on your child not to mention your wife and others.

Plus this type of behavior can escalate. Your wife would have to fix her issues but you are responsible for yours. If you're smart you'll get a handle on it or suffer the consequences if you haven't already.


----------



## Jaded1

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts. *I yell and break things* - I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that. Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


Sorry man, I guess I didn't really grasp this completely in your earlier posts. But regardless of what her actual status is with the OM, your behavior would be very alarming for most women.

Depending how long she's had to deal with your outbursts, she may be done at this point since she's moved out. 

Honestly, despite the contact with OM that you've discovered, I'm not in a position to speculate how far their "friendship" has advanced, but I think you have far more serious issue with YOURSELF that need to be addressed. 

Regardless of what happens with your wife, you really need to start IC immediately. If there is any hope of saving your marriage, IC is a must to deal with these angry and semi violent outbursts. If it's too late for your marriage to be saved, please seek help for yourself and a future coparenting.

All you can really control at this time, is yourself. Work towards being the best possible man that you can be.

So sorry that you are dealing with this nightmare NP.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



alte Dame said:


> Your lack of sleep cannot be helping anything - see a doctor this week and try to get some help with your sleep. Try hard to eat properly and drink fluids. If you can't eat, buy a nutritional supplement like *'Ensure'* and try to choke it down.


I prefer Booze, er, I mean *'Boost'*.


----------



## lucy999

Regardless of how this pans out , you've got to go to anger management therapy at the very least. I did not make the assumption that you threw and broke things when you got angry. That's how my abusive relationship started before I left his sorry ass. Get a grip, man. How you behave is scary as ****. You have your own side of the street to clean, too.

And what your wife is doing is 100% wrong. Aside from that, I'd tell her to RUN based on your angry tantrums alone. No one, especially a child(!!!) Should have to spend one single day in a hell like that. Unacceptable.


----------



## Cynthia

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I don’t think she is reading any longer. We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts. I yell and break things - I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that. Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


Most people do not throw things when they are angry. That is physical violence and dangerous. No one is going to assume that you saying you "blew up" means you are violent, but apparently you think that is how others perceive things. It's not. You have a problem and you are harming your family by behaving this way. As others have said, you need to seek therapy immediately. And when you do, you need to be clear about your behaviors so the therapist will understand exactly what is going on. Vague mentions of blowing up are not clear. Tell the therapist exactly what words you use and exactly what actions you are displaying.

To be perfectly clear: throwing things IS domestic violence.


----------



## red oak

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I don’t think she is reading any longer. We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “*how violent I can get” during my outbursts. I yell and break things *- I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that. Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


I thought that was what you meant but hoped otherwise. 

You took the bait, hook line and sinker fella!
Often, whether conscious or not, one party will manipulate the other to provoke an outcome similar to what happened with you

Then it becomes about your behavior talking the heat off them.

No one knows better than a wife how to push the right buttons to get the reactions they need.

You lost round 1-3.

Get hold of yourself before you lose the fight and possibly your freedom.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



red oak said:


> I thought that was what you meant but hoped otherwise.
> 
> You took the bait, hook line and sinker fella!
> Often, whether conscious or not, one party will manipulate the other to provoke an outcome similar to what happened with you
> 
> Then it becomes about your behavior talking the heat off them.
> 
> *No one knows better than a wife how to push the right buttons to get the reactions they need.*
> 
> You lost round 1-3.
> 
> Get hold of yourself before you lose the fight and possibly your freedom.


This^ in spades.
You need to try to take the emotion out of this (I know, damn near impossible) and make all of your decisions from a strategic standpoint.


----------



## Cynthia

Becoming angry and breaking a child's toys is reason enough to leave. I don't condone the bad behavior of your wife either, but she's not the one telling the story and asking for help. There is nothing your child could do to deserve to be treated in that abusive manner. You need to wake up and make some serious changes. You need to understand that your attitude and behavior are not only destructive to the items you are breaking, but to the people around you.

Again, I don't condone the bad behavior of your wife, but your description of how you treat her and your son explains a lot.


----------



## Spicy

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



> We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts.


Trust me, as long as you are reading, she will be reading that long and probably a few months longer.


----------



## Openminded

Breaking dishes and toys? No.


----------



## NoParking

CynthiaDe said:


> NoParking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people do not throw things when they are angry. That is physical violence and dangerous. No one is going to assume that you saying you "blew up" means you are violent, but apparently you think that is how others perceive things. It's not. You have a problem and you are harming your family by behaving this way. As others have said, you need to seek therapy immediately. And when you do, you need to be clear about your behaviors so the therapist will understand exactly what is going on. Vague mentions of blowing up are not clear. Tell the therapist exactly what words you use and exactly what actions you are displaying.
> 
> To be perfectly clear: throwing things IS domestic violence.
> 
> 
> 
> These posts have definitely made me look at my behavior more closely. I need help and I’ll take steps toward getting it tomorrow.
> 
> Maybe this is semantics, but I never said I threw anything. Maybe my words created an image of me randomly throwing items across the house. I’ve cleared clutter off the counter onto the floor on a few occasions, breaking dishes. I’ve cleared clutter off the dining table onto the floor, which includes toys that don’t actually break falling 4 feet. I used “dishes and toys” as examples of inatimate objects, not realizing the image that would put in others’ minds. I have never actually broken any of my son’s toys.
> 
> One thing that is certain, and that I have only really realized after reading these posts, is that these events are increasing in frequency and intensity and is unacceptable.
Click to expand...


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Clearing counters off to the point you are breaking dishes is wrong. That is being destructive and violent. 

Need to get that in check. 

Throwing your kids toys is going to upset him. Whether they break or not.

Stuff can be replaced.

Broken hearts can’t.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



Openminded said:


> Breaking dishes and toys? No.


Breaking toys!

That is so wrong. 
Children take this to heart, likely remembering, harboring this pain forever.

The child will think he/she is being blamed for causing your outbursts.

Uh, unless you broke the wife's toys.

Hmm?





[THM]- TT I


----------



## notmyjamie

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

I lived with someone who did many of the same things you mention here. I used to tell myself it was just "stuff" he was breaking. But I was still afraid of the unleashed anger. Then one day he punched the wall right next to my head. I left because I knew things would only get worse and eventually he would hit me. 

It's been over 25 years. He was much worse with his wife, something he freely admits. He called me at the time of their divorce and asked me what was wrong with him. Asked what it was like for me to be with him. I was very honest. Then he got help, lots of help. And his new girlfriend has never seen that side of him. She's lucky because if not for that side, he was a great boyfriend. I would have married him. But nobody wants to live in fear wondering if today is the day it will escalate to punching me instead of the wall, or breaking my nose instead of the dishes.

If you want your marriage to survive, you need intense individual counseling and marriage counseling with your wife. You may even need medication. 

I wish you luck.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

@notmyjamie I have btdt too, only I married him.  (Hubby #1)


----------



## notmyjamie

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



FieryHairedLady said:


> @notmyjamie I have btdt too, only I married him.  (Hubby #1)


I would have married him except after 2 years a little voice inside my head said "you only have one life to live on this earth, is this how you want to spend it?" The answer was no, so I didn't. 


I would hope OP has that voice too...because I can't imagine he wants to spend his life dealing with all of this either.


----------



## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> 
> These posts have definitely made me look at my behavior more closely. I need help and I’ll take steps toward getting it tomorrow.
> 
> Maybe this is semantics, but I never said I threw anything. Maybe my words created an image of me randomly throwing items across the house. I’ve cleared clutter off the counter onto the floor on a few occasions, breaking dishes. I’ve cleared clutter off the dining table onto the floor, which includes toys that don’t actually break falling 4 feet. I used “dishes and toys” as examples of inatimate objects, not realizing the image that would put in others’ minds. I have never actually broken any of my son’s toys.
> 
> One thing that is certain, and that I have only really realized after reading these posts, is that these events are increasing in frequency and intensity and is unacceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> Get control of yourself before it escalates. These situations don't get better without help/treatment. And very often get worse as you've noticed.
> 
> Making excuses and trying to justify won't help. You need to get this fixed for you ASAP.
> 
> Only when you realize it's unacceptable will you be able to accomplish that.
Click to expand...


----------



## personofinterest

CynthiaDe said:


> Becoming angry and breaking a child's toys is reason enough to leave. I don't condone the bad behavior of your wife either, but she's not the one telling the story and asking for help. There is nothing your child could do to deserve to be treated in that abusive manner. You need to wake up and make some serious changes. You need to understand that your attitude and behavior are not only destructive to the items you are breaking, but to the people around you.
> 
> Again, I don't condone the bad behavior of your wife, but your description of how you treat her and your son explains a lot.


Yep, and those blaming your wife for pushing the right buttons are ridiculous and enabling abuse.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



red oak said:


> I thought that was what you meant but hoped otherwise.
> 
> You took the bait, hook line and sinker fella!
> Often, whether conscious or not, one party will manipulate the other to provoke an outcome similar to what happened with you


You have got to be joking. No your honor, she had it coming. 

God OP, I hope you don't listen to this outrageous BS.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> red oak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that was what you meant but hoped otherwise.
> 
> You took the bait, hook line and sinker fella!
> Often, whether conscious or not, one party will manipulate the other to provoke an outcome similar to what happened with you
> 
> 
> 
> You have got to be joking. No your honor, she had it coming.
> 
> God OP, I hope you don't listen to this outrageous BS.
Click to expand...

 Hopefully the original poster is smarter than that, however, I sense that he will take any out he can get to not be wrong and make his wife the complete villain.


----------



## red oak

@NobodySpecial

@personofinterest
Perhaps y'all missed the last part?



> Then it becomes about your behavior talking the heat off them.
> 
> No one knows better than a wife how to push the right buttons to get the reactions they need.
> 
> You lost round 1-3.
> 
> *Get hold of yourself before you lose the fight and possibly your freedom.*


Does that sound like I'm rationalizing his behavior or telling him to quit being a pawn, and act like a responsible adult, instead of a spoiled temper tantrum throwing 3 yrs old before he let's his temper get him in trouble?

Allowing themselves to be provoked is synonymous with handing over the keys to your own life and body.


----------



## personofinterest

Yes, it does sound like you are rationalizing his behavior. And the bolded part sounds a lot like you don't want the poor innocent victime to go to jail because his mien wife manipulated him into being bad.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



personofinterest said:


> Yes, it does sound like you are rationalizing his behavior. And the bolded part sounds a lot like you don't want the poor innocent victime to go to jail because his mien wife manipulated him into being bad.


Right?


----------



## red oak

Such is why so many people have been leaving this site lately and in the past from reading posts from long ago.

Someone comes here with a problem. Others give advice, opinions, and often the OP gets treated rudely, or others come in late in a thread, and instead of offering advice snidely comment on another poster's attempt to get hrough to the OP. On comments perfectly well understood as it was meant by others.

Can we stop the infighting to help him if he comes back?

As he is facing it I'm sure he would understand as would any man who had experienced it, but i will spell it out for once.

Control of your emotions. They are yours. As long as someone can flip your switches they own you. 

Do you want to have supervised visits with your child?
If she is seeing the man and you face him could you maintain control to stay out of jail?
If not man up, and learn to master your emotions.

There is a man in jail right now who pissed off a little guy who uses his head. 
I know little guy. He is sharp as a tack when it comes to people.

Little guy ended up in the hospital but he "owned " big guy.
Big guy is in jail, lost his job, will have to pay for surgery, and faces prison time or long time on probation. 
Big guys excuse was while talking to little guy he just lost it. He let himself get manipulated into doing exactly what little guy wanted him to do. Which was one punch.

I'm not saying that's what your W wants. Simply an example how letting someone manipulate, and anger, you risks your life and reputation. 

I don't condone what either one did. There is damage on both ends. 

Do your best to be better than both of them for you and your child's sake.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



notmyjamie said:


> I lived with someone who did many of the same things you mention here. I used to tell myself it was just "stuff" he was breaking. But I was still afraid of the unleashed anger. Then one day he punched the wall right next to my head. I left because I knew things would only get worse and eventually he would hit me.
> 
> It's been over 25 years. He was much worse with his wife, something he freely admits. He called me at the time of their divorce and asked me what was wrong with him. Asked what it was like for me to be with him. I was very honest. Then he got help, lots of help. And his new girlfriend has never seen that side of him. She's lucky because if not for that side, he was a great boyfriend. I would have married him. But nobody wants to live in fear wondering if today is the day it will escalate to punching me instead of the wall, or breaking my nose instead of the dishes.
> 
> If you want your marriage to survive, you need intense individual counseling and marriage counseling with your wife. You may even need medication.
> 
> I wish you luck.


For reals. But for me, it would not be about whether or not he ultimately hit me. I would not be around that degree of anger, period.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



red oak said:


> Such is why so many people have been leaving this site lately and in the past from reading posts from long ago.
> 
> Someone comes here with a problem. Others give advice, opinions, and often the OP gets treated rudely, or others come in late in a thread, and instead of offering advice snidely comment on another poster's attempt to get hrough to the OP. On comments perfectly well understood as it was meant by others.


Give bad advice and people are going to disagree with it. For the sake of the OP. Your advice was bad.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I don’t think she is reading any longer. We talked briefly on the phone, she read up to a point of the thread and couldn’t take the, what she called, false assumptions. Then she mentioned that she didn’t want to have to come on here and start talking about “how violent I can get” during my outbursts. I yell and break things - I figured that much could be assumed when I admitted that I “blew up” in earlier posts so I’m not sure what else she can say about that. Wife and son have never been in danger when I get angry, dishes and toys are another story. If this is the start of the dv accusations, I don’t know.


I dont think her talking with the friend's H is your real problem... THIS is. I would have left too, but a LONG time ago!


----------



## oldshirt

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NobodySpecial said:


> Give bad advice and people are going to disagree with it. For the sake of the OP. Your advice was bad.


It wasn't bad.

It was an inconvenient and politically incorrect truth.

Some people DO intentionally do things that they know will invoke inappropriate and potentially illegal behavior in others.

I'm not saying that the wife was necessarily doing that but it is something that the OP needs to be aware of so he can better control his emotions and behavior. 

Yes, the OP's behavior is inappropriate and wrong whether his outbursts are organic or the result of being manipulated into it. He needs to do a full stop on all aggressive and violent behaviors.

But pointing out that people can intentionally induce those behaviors is not inappropriate or even condoning advice.

It is a call to control his behaviors and responses better which he clearly needs to do.


----------



## NoParking

red oak said:


> Can we stop the infighting to help him if he comes back?
> .


I’m still here and reading periodically, just keeping busy and back at work. And still taking it all in but it’s getting harder to discern the posts that are trying to offer practical advice and the posts for those who seemingly just like to hear themselves talk. I’m not sure how to respond to the continued feedback that my actions were horrid and she should have left - I admitted to both several posts ago and I now have a plan to address it, but it seems some won’t be satisfied until I get a time machine to undo it.

Things seem to escalate about as quickly as my temper around here. I admit to yelling and breaking things during these childish tantrums and several posts later I’m seeing jail mentioned. 

I can definitely change. I went through some intensive in-patient therapy in my early twenties to deal my issues. I was a totally different person for a couple years. But I moved, lost my support system, and didn’t find a new one. So I eventually returned to the comfort of what I knew best. However, these yelling and breaking outbursts have only resurfaced a couple years ago.

I spent most of my day yesterday with my son. The plan was for me to leave so that my son can stay in his home and I start the divorce process. But when I tried to put him back in mom’s car he got upset because he wanted to come with me. I instantly broke and felt like a failure to him. So I went back home. Wife and I have not sat down and talked about anything yet. She still says there has been no contact whatsoever with him. If we were to divorce she would return to her home state with our son. She has a support system there for him; I am active military and have none here. The thought of being without him for any length of time is hard to swallow.

And while I’m sure she will eventually, I still highly doubt she is reading any of this.


----------



## Openminded

Your son will always be observing you.


----------



## red oak

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I’m still here and reading periodically, just keeping busy and back at work. And still taking it all in but it’s getting harder to discern the posts that are trying to offer practical advice and the posts for those who seemingly just like to hear themselves talk. I’m not sure how to respond to the continued feedback that my actions were horrid and she should have left - I admitted to both several posts ago and I now have a plan to address it, but it seems some won’t be satisfied until I get a time machine to undo it.
> 
> Things seem to escalate about as quickly as my temper around here. I admit to yelling and breaking things during these childish tantrums and several posts later I’m seeing jail mentioned.
> 
> I can definitely change. I went through some intensive in-patient therapy in my early twenties to deal my issues. I was a totally different person for a couple years. But I moved, lost my support system, and didn’t find a new one. So I eventually returned to the comfort of what I knew best. However, these yelling and breaking outbursts have only resurfaced a couple years ago.
> 
> I spent most of my day yesterday with my son. The plan was for me to leave so that my son can stay in his home and I start the divorce process. But when I tried to put him back in mom’s car he got upset because he wanted to come with me. I instantly broke and felt like a failure to him. So I went back home. Wife and I have not sat down and talked about anything yet. She still says there has been no contact whatsoever with him. If we were to divorce she would return to her home state with our son. She has a support system there for him; I am active military and have none here. The thought of being without him for any length of time is hard to swallow.
> 
> And while I’m sure she will eventually, I still highly doubt she is reading any of this.


Being your active military would there be some type of on base group you could get into for assistance, or would they just prescribe medication?


----------



## NoParking

red oak said:


> Being your active military would there be some type of on base group you could get into for assistance, or would they just prescribe medication?


Several different (and free!) avenues for both individual and marital counseling. We have been talking about going for years but have both been waiting for the other to take the initiative.


----------



## BluesPower

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I’m still here and reading periodically, just keeping busy and back at work. And still taking it all in but it’s getting harder to discern the posts that are trying to offer practical advice and the posts for those who seemingly just like to hear themselves talk. I’m not sure how to respond to the continued feedback that my actions were horrid and she should have left - I admitted to both several posts ago and I now have a plan to address it, but it seems some won’t be satisfied until I get a time machine to undo it.
> 
> Things seem to escalate about as quickly as my temper around here. I admit to yelling and breaking things during these childish tantrums and several posts later I’m seeing jail mentioned.
> 
> I can definitely change. I went through some intensive in-patient therapy in my early twenties to deal my issues. I was a totally different person for a couple years. But I moved, lost my support system, and didn’t find a new one. So I eventually returned to the comfort of what I knew best. However, these yelling and breaking outbursts have only resurfaced a couple years ago.
> 
> I spent most of my day yesterday with my son. The plan was for me to leave so that my son can stay in his home and I start the divorce process. But when I tried to put him back in mom’s car he got upset because he wanted to come with me. I instantly broke and felt like a failure to him. So I went back home. Wife and I have not sat down and talked about anything yet. She still says there has been no contact whatsoever with him. If we were to divorce she would return to her home state with our son. She has a support system there for him; I am active military and have none here. The thought of being without him for any length of time is hard to swallow.
> 
> And while I’m sure she will eventually, I still highly doubt she is reading any of this.


We to you OP and to the others... 

OP, yes you have to, have to, have to, get a handle on your anger. Bottom line. It is childish and just wrong, and I know how hard it can be, so whatever happens, you have to deal with that. 

I might want to suggest a mild anti depressant. Lots of people will pooh pooh on that but in my experience, a mild AD, once the right one is found, can mitigate anger and allow you to handle it so much easier... 

Now, To the other posters and to OP... Your anger does not excuse your wife having an affair with the husband of her dead BFF. 

Everyone can pooh pooh that as well, but this woman is having an affair. Period, full stop. 

Now you, OP, have completely bungled everything in your life and dealing with her affair. 

But make no mistake, she is having an affair, the only real question is... has it gone physical yet??? 

In my estimation it has. And it may be too late to save your marriage, but you need to understand that that is what is happening. 

She may leave you for him, and she would be within her rights, on one level.

*However, your anger does not justify her affair, and her affair does not justify your anger. *

Frankly, it is probably time to call in the dogs and piss on the fire...


----------



## red oak

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Several different (and free!) avenues for both individual and marital counseling. We have been talking about going for years but have both been waiting for the other to take the initiative.


There you go.
No better time than the present if she will still go.

I look at it this way: it is no longer about you or her. It is about what is best for the child. 
You both need to work together, take advantage of services available, to make a better life for all of you.

For yourself would she give you 6 months to prove yourself and attend counseling together, or self study. 

If it was me, and she were willing to stop all contact with the friend, I would be willing to give her a 6 month slot to prove herself to be honorable and forget whether she did or didn't, only because I know how death of a loved one can effect a person. 

But that is only me and my personal preference talking I'd everything else in the marriage has normally been fine. 

Is your family worth that to the both of you? And it has to be the both of you.


----------



## NoParking

BluesPower said:


> NoParking said:
> 
> 
> 
> But make no mistake, she is having an affair, the only real question is... has it gone physical yet???
> 
> In my estimation it has.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely possible, and I’m about as pessimistic as they come, but the content of their recent texts (from what I saw anyway) tells me otherwise. Any text that could possibly be construed as fishing (mostly by her) were not reciprocated. But of course it is also possible it was just reciprocated by an afternoon phone call later. There is also a recurring occasion that would have made it extremely easy for her to meet with him without me (and I would never have known) that I know she did not take.
> 
> If we make another shot at this, I will pursue every possible avenue of recovering every text to get a clearer picture.
Click to expand...


----------



## notmyjamie

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Several different (and free!) avenues for both individual and marital counseling. We have been talking about going for years but have both been waiting for the other to take the initiative.


I think you should take the initiative. This will show her that you are serious about wanting to make some changes to better control your anger. Therapy and some medication can make a big difference for you. It will take work on your part but in the end it will be worth it. It might also help to discuss her actions with a therapist present to help you both sort through it all.

I'd have to imagine some of what you deal with being in the service has not helped your situation. Thank you for your service and sacrifice.


----------



## Oldtimer

Jumping in again. Firstly let me thank you for your service. Secondly, get some help for your anger issues. As a weapon, which you are by the way, your first action is to strike. Not good in a family situation, scary for a child. Let tell you gently friend, I still cringe when someone yells. Your son and wife need better from you and being in the military, you should have access to decent counseling. I implore you to use that.

Now let’s talk about Your wife, she may have been pissed by some of the comments posted, but what has she done in regards to making you feel better about the situation? Spend more time and energy with the other guy, rather than dealing with issues at home? Were she really interested in bettering the situation, she would see that you too are suffering, perhaps not as she is from the loss of a friend, but she should open her eyes and see that there is a possible loss of family!

Pulling the pin because you confronted does not show someone who really gives a ****, it shows that like you she will run. You both need help.

Bottom line is that if you want to continue as husband and wife, you both have to see what’s going on with honesty and truthfulness. The hiding has to stop, it’s lying by omission.

This is my opinion and I wish you both the best.

OT


----------



## Marc878

OP this is a forum. You take what you need and leave the rest. You'll get a wide view of opinions some helpful some not. Overall I think most getbthe gist and you'll be able to discern what can help you.

It's good you are open and looking. No one usually has ant experience in these matters.

To have any chance sg all. The other man has to be eliminated totally from your marriage an life before any type of work can begin. Permanently. If your wife doesn't see and understand that then you have nothing to work with.

I would state that very directly and upfront. Leave zero room for any contact.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Is she willing to take a polygraph to prove there was no physical advancement? As if emotional affair were enough? You may have been a jerk of a husband but cheating is never an excuse...shame on her.


----------



## manfromlamancha

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*

OP firstly thank you for your service for the free world.

Next, I am going to get flamed here, but this is not about your anger. This is about inappropriate behaviour from your wife.

I understand that you get angry and you (more than most that I have seen here and elsewhere) seem to have a handle on it. I also did not envisage you breaking your kids toys or anything like that. I FULLY understand a spouse's ability to push buttons togoad you into reacting and this may well be what is happening here. If she were truly afraid for her safety she would have left long ago not now which coincides with her inappropriate level of contact with this other guy.

Do not let her make this about what its not. She needs to be called out on her actions and a polygraph would be interesting but I doubt that she would go for it, since she thinks she has enough to blame it all on you.

Last I heard she took your kid and disappeared. Now that is what I would call bad behaviour. Others will say that it was because she was afraid. Do you really believe that? What does your gut tell you (I think I know the answer to that else you would not be here) ? What happened after that ? How did you get to see your son ? Do you know the coworker she is staying with ?

Don't move out of your house yet. And do not let her take your son away from you (to another state). Don't agree to anything until you have resolved whether she is cheating or not.

It is interesting that you found that she is the one that is doing all the fishing with the other guy not really responding. However, as you said you do not know nearly enough to find out if he did or not.


----------



## jlg07

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> BluesPower said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Definitely possible, and I’m about as pessimistic as they come, but the content of their recent texts (from what I saw anyway) tells me otherwise. Any text that could possibly be construed as fishing (mostly by her) were not reciprocated.* But of course it is also possible it was just reciprocated by an afternoon phone call later. There is also a recurring occasion that would have made it extremely easy for her to meet with him without me (and I would never have known) that I know she did not take.
> 
> If we make another shot at this, I will pursue every possible avenue of recovering every text to get a clearer picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you say your wife read this post? If so, how do you know that the "recent texts" are not tailored to indicating that nothing went on between them since they know you can read them?
> I would ask her to do a polygraph as others have indicated.
Click to expand...


----------



## Laurentium

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> These posts have definitely made me look at my behavior more closely. I need help and I’ll take steps toward getting it tomorrow.
> 
> Maybe this is semantics, but I never said I threw anything. Maybe my words created an image of me randomly throwing items across the house. I’ve cleared clutter off the counter onto the floor on a few occasions, breaking dishes. I’ve cleared clutter off the dining table onto the floor, which includes toys that don’t actually break falling 4 feet. I used “dishes and toys” as examples of inatimate objects, not realizing the image that would put in others’ minds. I have never actually broken any of my son’s toys.
> 
> One thing that is certain, and that I have only really realized after reading these posts, is that these events are increasing in frequency and intensity and is unacceptable.


Unfortunately this kind of marital situation is the kind of thing I deal with professionally. Yes the fact that it was increasing is a bad indicator. You've seen posts from others who felt very intimidated by this kind of thing even though there was no injury. It's like a display of "you don't know what I might do". 

I can't say much. When I'm dealing with a situation like this, I'd be having an assessment of several hours with each person, separately, asking some very detailed questions, and seeing their attitude to answering.



NoParking said:


> Definitely possible, and I’m about as pessimistic as they come, but the content of their recent texts (from what I saw anyway) tells me otherwise. Any text that could possibly be construed as fishing (mostly by her) were not reciprocated.


I'm really curious about the Other Man's reaction when he found out that problems were being caused in your marriage. I might have expected him to do something like contact you, or tell her to keep away for the good of the child, once he learned that. 



red oak said:


> I look at it this way: it is no longer about you or her. It is about what is best for the child.
> You both need to work together, take advantage of services available, to make a better life for all of you.
> 
> For yourself would she give you 6 months to prove yourself and attend counseling together, or self study.
> 
> If it was me, and she were willing to stop all contact with the friend, I would be willing to give her a 6 month slot to prove herself to be honorable and forget whether she did or didn't, only because I know how death of a loved one can effect a person.


I suspect I'd be recommending that marriage counselling is not suitable at this stage, until there has been some committed individual work on each side. But like I say, that would be after a very detailed assessment.



manfromlamancha said:


> I am going to get flamed here, but this is not about your anger. This is about inappropriate behaviour from your wife.


I believe it has to be about both.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



oldshirt said:


> It wasn't bad.
> 
> It was an inconvenient and politically incorrect truth.
> 
> Some people DO intentionally do things that they know will invoke inappropriate and potentially illegal behavior in others.
> 
> I'm not saying that the wife was necessarily doing that but it is something that the OP needs to be aware of so he can better control his emotions and behavior.
> 
> Yes, the OP's behavior is inappropriate and wrong whether his outbursts are organic or the result of being manipulated into it. He needs to do a full stop on all aggressive and violent behaviors.
> 
> But pointing out that people can intentionally induce those behaviors is not inappropriate or even condoning advice.
> 
> It is a call to control his behaviors and responses better which he clearly needs to do.


I maintain that this is poor advice around mental health and dealing with anger issues. You disagree. There it is.


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> I’m still here and reading periodically, just keeping busy and back at work. And still taking it all in but it’s getting harder to discern the posts that are trying to offer practical advice and the posts for those who seemingly just like to hear themselves talk. I’m not sure how to respond to the continued feedback that my actions were horrid and she should have left - I admitted to both several posts ago and I now have a plan to address it, but it seems some won’t be satisfied until I get a time machine to undo it.


The point is not to make you feel badly, believe it or not. You can't undo it. But what you CAN do is learn. Advice on here is worth what you pay for it. So ultimately it is up to you to decide what to use. The beauty in hearing about how your anger is perceived is that you have the ability to change it. But truth is you cannot change your behavior in a long term and sustainable way without changing your thinking. You can possibly contain your anger for episodes while continuing to think that "blowing up" is normal or that someone "manipulated" you into it. If you do choose to go to any kind of therapy for anger management, those will not be among the skills and thought processes you will learn about.

Hearing other's say- hey this is what that would look like to me or has looked like to me offers you a chance to think - hey I never thought about it in this way.



> Things seem to escalate about as quickly as my temper around here. I admit to yelling and breaking things during these childish tantrums and several posts later I’m seeing jail mentioned.
> 
> I can definitely change. I went through some intensive in-patient therapy in my early twenties to deal my issues. I was a totally different person for a couple years. But I moved, lost my support system, and didn’t find a new one. So I eventually returned to the comfort of what I knew best. However, these yelling and breaking outbursts have only resurfaced a couple years ago.


Good on you! You have some skills and learning to draw on.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



red oak said:


> Such is why so many people have been leaving this site lately and in the past from reading posts from long ago.
> 
> Someone comes here with a problem. Others give advice, opinions, and often the OP gets treated rudely, or others come in late in a thread, and instead of offering advice snidely comment on another poster's attempt to get hrough to the OP. On comments perfectly well understood as it was meant by others.
> 
> Can we stop the infighting to help him if he comes back?
> 
> As he is facing it I'm sure he would understand as would any man who had experienced it, but i will spell it out for once.
> 
> Control of your emotions. They are yours. As long as someone can flip your switches they own you.
> 
> Do you want to have supervised visits with your child?
> If she is seeing the man and you face him could you maintain control to stay out of jail?
> If not man up, and learn to master your emotions.
> 
> There is a man in jail right now who pissed off a little guy who uses his head.
> I know little guy. He is sharp as a tack when it comes to people.
> 
> Little guy ended up in the hospital but he "owned " big guy.
> Big guy is in jail, lost his job, will have to pay for surgery, and faces prison time or long time on probation.
> Big guys excuse was while talking to little guy he just lost it. He let himself get manipulated into doing exactly what little guy wanted him to do. Which was one punch.
> 
> I'm not saying that's what your W wants. Simply an example how letting someone manipulate, and anger, you risks your life and reputation.
> 
> I don't condone what either one did. There is damage on both ends.
> 
> Do your best to be better than both of them for you and your child's sake.


...


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## NoParking

Sorry I know there are some questions in recent posts that I’d like to answer when I have time but I’m just rolling into work.. however I wanted to ask about deleted text recovery. I’m seeing some widely varying (mostly negative) reviews of many of the recovery software apps. We are not the type of people to regularly back up our iPhones. Is it still possible to recover all those texts without a backup somewhere?


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## NoParking

And I see several questions about whether she would agree to a poly - im sure she wouldn’t like it but she would do whatever is asked of her to fix this.


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## NoParking

Holy cow $2300 for a poly is this for real?


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## Lostinthought61

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> And I see several questions about whether she would agree to a poly - im sure she wouldn’t like it but she would do whatever is asked of her to fix this.


sometimes just the apparent set up of a polygraph exam, drive the individual to divulge a confession....aptly known as parking lot confessions.

i have seen them as low as $500 but it depends...I suggest get really good at reading body language and ask her again...micro cues also give away the truth.


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## Rubix Cubed

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Sorry I know there are some questions in recent posts that I’d like to answer when I have time but I’m just rolling into work.. however I wanted to ask about deleted text recovery. I’m seeing some widely varying (mostly negative) reviews of many of the recovery software apps. We are not the type of people to regularly back up our iPhones. Is it still possible to recover all those texts without a backup somewhere?


 Fonelab has gotten high marks around here but I have no personal experience with it.



NoParking said:


> Holy cow $2300 for a poly is this for real?


$500 is more the norm. They usually ask 3-5 questions for the record.
I can't imagine what the $2300 deal is all about.


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## Marc878

*Re: Wife and Late Friend’s Husband*



NoParking said:


> Sorry I know there are some questions in recent posts that I’d like to answer when I have time but I’m just rolling into work.. however I wanted to ask about deleted text recovery. I’m seeing some widely varying (mostly negative) reviews of many of the recovery software apps. We are not the type of people to regularly back up our iPhones. Is it still possible to recover all those texts without a backup somewhere?


You should be able to get what's in the phone which should be enough but over time it will be overwritten so timing is everything


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