# Trust gone, feel like ending it



## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

Hi, I'm new here, but am struggling with quite a dilemma. This all took place last week except the pay stub, which was the week before. I am looking at how others would deal with this. Since it's happened three times now, and there's no relationship left between us, and no relationship between our son and him, I feel like it's time to just let go.

I just would like some feedback on my life. Been married for 14 years, known him for 21. We have a 12 year old son. DH has changed a lot in the last few years, and we have NO relationship. We don't even sleep in the same room together anymore. And, for some reason I can't figure out (and he won't tell me), he has no connection with our son at all. I can't get him to go out and do things with him, I can't get him to go out and do things with BOTH of us. He sits in front of the TV, the laptop, or both. He's a hard worker. Yes he is. But he just never bonded with our son. Which surprises me because he is SOOO family oriented. He and his dad are SO close. I did my research before choosing him to marry. He was great with his nephew, friends' kids, and the fact that he is so close to his own family....it was perfect! 

Anyway, he's become sneaky. I don't believe at all that he's having an affair, or into porn (I may be naive) but, like, last fall, he decided to order a $4,000 TV and stand, on his own, putting it on a credit card, even though we had discussed it and decided it wasn't something we could do. He wanted this great big 60"....our 40" isn't good enough. He just texted me one day and said "oh, by the way, new TV coming on Friday." I laid into him and he canceled the order. He did something similar before this...years before. 

Trying to keep this short. Couple weeks ago he asked for my pay stub. They are electronic, so not laying around. I was uneasy about it, and asked why. I questioned him several times about it. Every single time he looked me square in the eye and said he just wanted to compare our taxes taken out, that he forgot how we had it set up, etc. I didn't go for it. He DOESN'T forget stuff. I printed out my paystub, but hid it in my room. He went down snooping one day and found it, because it was gone. Last week, Tuesday, I get home from work and a loan officer called from the CU. He said he needed more information before the loan closing on Thursday. I of course said WHAT LOAN? He was, behind my back, taking out a loan for a skid loader. (man toy!) Sure, we could use one, but we talked about that, too. We have DEBT, and we don't HAVE the money to have a payment on a loan. I don't know how he was going to tell me, or if he planned to forge my name, but I told the loan guy I was NOT signing it. I told DH too later when I talked to him, I said I'm NOT signing. Another scary thing is, he listed assets for that loan that were "ours," but they are not. They belong to my family. They are not ours at all. That's FRAUD. 

So, completely lying to my face. Like it was nothing. This is the third time something like this has happened, although this is the worst. If he had a relationship with our son at all I'd try to make it work, but at this point, I told him I can no longer trust him again, and without trust, what is there? 

So that happened Tuesday. Wednesday, he was butt kissing, but never brought "the issue" up. Thursday I got flowers at work. First time in 21 years he's ever done that. And he said "I still love you" on the card. Words he doesn't say. He knows he's screwed if I kick him out, so the flowers were not well received. I just bawled at work. And I refused to take them home. 

I'm waiting for HIM to approach me and explain himself (again). But it's not happening. As far as I feel, our marriage is on the outs.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Assuming you did your 50% when it comes to relationship/intimacy and took all the steps possible on those ends......I think you already know what needs to happen at this point.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

Yes, I did. We don't argue much at all. But talking to him is like talking to a rock. He's so into his TV or laptop. I think the fact that he has no interest in our son proves that it's not my lack of intimacy or trying....this is a personality thing that apparently has changed.

But now lying, and trying to take out an $18,000 loan.... after we'd talked about it, and we couldn't afford what he was after...ugh.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Once you get the legal ball rolling you will be disconnected from him financially. Your state will have specifics which your lawyer can explain. Sometimes it is simply filing for divorce or separation, other times you have publicly announce it via newspaper in the classifieds, or perhaps something else entirely. The point is, once you jump through whatever the hoop is, he cannot obligate you to any more debt. Until then you are probably on the hook if he signs any loans.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

The financial aspect just bothers me a great deal. He could go out and get a credit card, without any say from me, and max it out, and I'm obligated to pay half. Like I said, he ordered a $4,000 TV last fall, even after we talked about it and I said it just wasn't something we could afford at that time. I had surgery this winter and was off for two months, and he was laid off for a lot of it also....heating bills were unbelievable, and our car insurance just went up. We live paycheck to paycheck. I hate saying "no" all the time, but everything he wants has to be the best of the best, top of the line, etc etc. I'm far less materialistic. 

But my trust is gone. He just lied. Over and over, staring me straight in the face. That is NOT ok with me. He knew I knew he was up to something. I'm just devastated. And not sure I want to sit around and wait for it to happen again. Our son is learning how to be a dad every day....and I don't like the way he's learning. He thinks his dad hates him. He's told me that. Maybe it's time to move on.....and protect myself from any future "ideas," which I'm sure there will be.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Protect yourself and your son. It's awful that a child thinks a parent hates them. What does your husband's father think about his son treating your son this way?


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This has to be one of the saddest threads I have ever read. I am so sorry you and your son are in this situation. Could your husband be clinically depressed?


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## daboss (Jan 18, 2013)

Cut your losses with this man. What have you got to lose? 200 pounds of selfish lying conniving junk by the sounds of it!
I feel sorry most for your son. I bet if you moved on you would end up with someone who takes more of an interest in him than his own father. Just pathetic. I wish you the best of luck, I feel you will need it.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

I have not spoken to his father about this. The past few years now, he's been in ailing health....and I don't want to add any pressure. I swear I did my homework. My mom was 16 when she got pregnant with me, and I never knew my own dad. It affected me greatly. I think my son has it worse though. He knows his, but his doesn't take an interest in his life. He lives with him, for crying out loud. Last year for DS birthday, we planned a weekend at a waterpark resort. It's all he wanted. Guess who DIDN'T go!!?? It's always been he and I.

But as I said, I really thought I did my homework. What was most important to me was having a good dad for my future kid(s). My now husband is very close with his dad and brother (not so much his mom.....but they talk and see each other on birthdays and holidays). But my husband, his brother and his dad were always doing things together. Always. My husband will tear up talking about him....he means THAT much to him. So, with being so tight knit....and watching him with his nephew and friends' kids, I knew he was perfect. What happened, I don't know! He always said it was "his turn" to step in when our son got older. Well, we're still waiting for him to step in. 

I feel like perhaps there's some depression going on, but then when he's with his family, oh he can gear right up! I've told him his son feels like he hates him. Hubby will try for a couple days, then back to ignoring him. our son has just become used to the fact that dad won't go to any of his things, and it's always just he and I. So I've considered this for a long while....but this latest stunt, the loan, about has me over the edge.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

Yes, I guess it's just hard to say out loud. 

I work for the school district and am off all summer. Not a good time to be thinking about this and not getting paid. I'm checking out job ads.....


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I too do not understand this lack of communication. I am guessing that this is not new behavior. It is possible he is not being truthful with you because he knows you will object and his determination (as the "man" in the house) tells him to do it anyway because he can. Possibly vindictive passive aggressive behavior after being told that it could not be put in the budget and then you will be made to pay for even saying this, got to love PAs. Or simply he is emotionally unavailable. Read about emotionally unavailable men and see if it fits.

My husband does stuff all the time without telling me and then I am floored, wondering why. He is VERY at communicating. He too sits in front of the computer, earplugs in, tuning out the world for hours or days on end. We have talked many times and it never changes. We went to marriage counseling and the man we had came down on him real hard....told him that he had not been available to his first wife or his children and he was not available to me. He told him how his actions made everyone feel hurt and abandoned. Husband is sitting there crying and I am thinking he gets it. First time in nearly our whole marriage he tells me he loves me, I start receiving cards and I am getting "I love you notes." Counselor was pushing the physical side which I was going along with even though I was not comfortable. I tell husband that I wasn't comfortable, I had not pushed him aside. That's all it took, he says, "Well, if you are not going to try there is no sense in me trying," and he went back to his withdrawal. There was no understanding on his part what I was feeling.

I am at the point that you are. We too also have one child together.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

musinglizzy said:


> But my trust is gone. He just lied. Over and over, staring me straight in the face. That is NOT ok with me. He knew I knew he was up to something. I'm just devastated. And not sure I want to sit around and wait for it to happen again. Our son is learning how to be a dad every day....and I don't like the way he's learning. He thinks his dad hates him. He's told me that. Maybe it's time to move on.....and protect myself from any future "ideas," which I'm sure there will be.


I don't know how one can feel secure in a relationship with someone who is willing to lie like that. How does one feel a romantic love for such a partner? You may feel some form of compassion for him, but I don't know if romantic love is possible if you can't trust him. What else don't you know about? What else has he told you that is false? What deception is he going to perpetrate at some future date?

And then on top of that, there is the financial worry that he is going to put you into some kind of disasterous financial hole.

I think there is some kind of bad wiring in his brain. It sounds like this is a long term pattern of his, not a recent development which could be caused by a temporary stressor (such as a parent dying or the loss of a job). If it is a long term pattern, there is no reason to expect it to change. And thus you can predict more of the same shenanigans in the future.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

DoF said:


> Assuming you did your 50% when it comes to relationship/intimacy and took all the steps possible on those ends......I think you already know what needs to happen at this point.


I think there's likely a big disconnect between what men versus women would call 50% and relationship/intimacy. 

That's water under the bridge at this point anyway. Given the fact that that he has a close bond with his father and brother it does seem strange that he wouldn't have developed one with his son. Was he like that with your son from day one or did it develop later?

Did your relationship with him start to become distant only recently or did it start a long time ago?


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

You've gotten great advice here so I can't add much except to say one thing --

Pull your credit report! And demand to see his, too. 

I work in the fraud area for my company and see so many spouse sneaky-sneaks it's not even funny. 

And he obviously makes very poor choices. A 60" TV for $4,000? Does it teleport people? Sheesh.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

He is a "tough" man and has always had trouble showing affection. It took him well over a year to tell me he loved me, but I figured that meant he wasn't just throwing those words around...and meant them. I have NEVER heard him say that to our son. When our son was younger, he was more hands on, more involved. He'd talk to him, baby talk type stuff, I think he enjoyed the baby/toddler years. He even took interest in what to get him for his birthdays....well, for the last several years, I just get the gifts. I ask for opinions, but get nothing. When I nag enough, he'll try with him. But it lasts a matter of a couple days, and then its back to where they were. Last Friday, after our argument about the loan, he put nice clothes on and told me he was going out for supper, and was going to ask Alex to join him. He said I could go too, if I wanted. I didn't answer him, but I thought about it, and thought it would be nice for the two of them to go together. So I decided I WAS going to say no. Next thing, hubby comes to me and says our son said he doesn't want to go unless I am. That broke my heart for hubby, but really, he had it coming. He has earned it. Our son may very well have just gotten so used to it, he's not interested in a relationship. But it got to the point years ago, where if we did something for our son, or with him, I could tell it was a "chore." I can't help but wonder how much our son is picking up on this.... I really have been struggling with leaving him before this loan thing came up. Not it seems there should be no question. But it's so hard.....and although he won't fight for our son, I'm sure, he WILL fight for the dog. And I'm afraid our son would have mandatory visitation with him, and he won't want it.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

I really appreciate all of the feedback I have received here. I am still just so stunned. Someone mentioned it being defiant, passive aggressive, and I completely agree. I feel like a parent, saying no all the time, but we don't MAKE the kind of money for the life he wants to live!!! The loan itself is BAD. He wouldn't answer me when I asked him what his plan was, to tell me the night before, or to forge my signature. He wouldn't talk at all, except to say if he couldn't get the loan, he wanted my checkbook, and any cards, because from now on HE was going to oversee the money that went out. I told him to go to you know where. I have since been keeping my wallet and checkbook hidden, and paying bills as much as possible. What scares me more is that he used my grandparents' assets for his own personal gain....he lied and said they were ours. That still freaks me out!

So, we doing get a BIG tax return back, but we get enough to make a difference. Normally I would have included him in the decision making on where that money was going, but I just on a whim decided to pay bills. I paid for our LP gas, the latest cell phone bill, and two medical bills, one his, one mine. So, the tax return is gone. He will probably be angry with me for that, and maybe it wasn't right to do what I did, but at this point I didn't want that money sitting in the bank for him to go blow. So I used it responsibly, without his input.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Every man wants a Bobcat Lizzy!! Seriously though I don't get the emotional detachment he has from your son. Why are you guys in seperate rooms?? Is this recent?? Maybe he is depressed and does not know/understand that he is. One thing you wrote is kind of wierd - you thought you did your homework in picking a husband?? I guess I get it, no one wants a total sh*tbag for a spouse, but call me old fashioned but most people just fall for someone and do not go over it in an analytical fashion. In any event, I hope you can convince him to get more involved with your son. A 12 year old boy and his dad should be tight as a rope. Doesn't he take him to his sports, take him fishing, hunting etc....????


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

musinglizzy said:


> He is a "tough" man and has always had trouble showing affection.


Remember this when you date around. If it looks and walks like a duck, it's a duck.





musinglizzy said:


> It took him well over a year to tell me he loved me, but I figured that meant he wasn't just throwing those words around...and meant them. I have NEVER heard him say that to our son.


How sad.....


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

Interesting takes. Taking a year to say "I love you," well, I may have been young and naive, but I really felt at least when he said it, he meant it. And I'm not saying I did my "homework" back then....but I did fall for him...oh I had a crush on him for YEARS before we actually dated. The fact that he was soooo close to his family warmed my heart, because my family just isn't like that. Well, it's changed, and gotten better, but I did not grow up in a close knit family. It warmed my heart to be with he and his family, and see the relationship there. He and his brother were roommates when we met. They are two peas in a pod, they really are.

Songofthesouth! I would like a bobcat myself, for all the work he could do here with it! We just can't AFFORD that luxury. Hey....there's a lot of nice things I'd like, but you know, we have what we NEED. We drive old vehicles. I'd love a nice one....one that I'd feel comfortable picking some girlfriends up and going somewhere. I have a 1999 car...it's in decent shape for its age....and gets me where I need to go. Hubby's car is a 1986!!!

I agree, I should have taken the hint when he had trouble showing affection. He didn't always. 

Here is where I may get chewed out. Or you may think me just odd...actually, I'm quite normal. When we were dating, that man never brushed his teeth. And working in a stinky job, didn't shower every day. It drove me nuts, and I was ready to leave him over it. I mean, general hygiene... I should have taken the hint then. I wouldn't even kiss him anymore if he didn't brush his teeth. His method of caring for his teeth is getting them pulled when they're rotten or hurting. I'm proud to say, I've raised our son with good habits, and at 12 years old, he has NEVER had a cavity! But....when his lack of care for himself got to me enough I voiced it, it got better. Sometimes he needed reminders, but he did start taking better care of himself. Now.... well, I swear, he maybe showers once every two weeks. And he's in a dirty, sweaty job. And he only brushed his teeth when he wanted sex. I knew when he was brushing his teeth, what was coming next. Shower, teeth, and sex. But he's back to just not caring for himself anymore. He wears the same clothes all week. They can stand up on their own....probably walk away too. So that also was a complete turn off. Part of the reason I moved "out" of the bedroom was back issues with the bed. But I just kept sticking with that excuse when I started to enjoy crawling into nice, fresh sheets. I could always tell his side of the bed on the sheets when I'd make it. That side was stained darker. So.....if he'd shower once in awhile, I would have considered sleeping in the same bed with him again. But I sleep on a futon in the basement. And I'm actually quite loving my own space. But I'm sure it's not setting a good example for our son. I could go on and on. Hey, I'm not the greatest cook, and he may complain about meals sometimes. He's a better cook than me. But hes also VERY picky. VERY. But I keep the house clean, I do more than my share around here. He works hard every day, so when he comes home I don't expect or ask anything of him.... (except maybe a shower, but I don't ask). Maybe he is depressed. That thought crossed my mind more than once, and I even asked him if he was, or more suggested it, last summer when we had an argument. It was a BIG argument. Why? Because apparently he knew the exact time we had sex last. And he was mad at me for not having "relations" with him anymore. I care very much for him. I will always remember our fun times. Oh how I smiled when we were dating, we'd have a car full of people, and he'd be in the back seat singing away to the radio. He'd never do that now. He's a different person when we have company. When his brother is over, they never shut up. If I have a friend over, he holds a conversation with them. I hear more out of him then than anytime else. But he won't talk like that with me, and I've brought that up, too. We used to do things. Now, he doesn't want to leave the house. He kinda drug me down with him...but I'm trying to get out of being a hermit and doing things. Ok...long winded and a lot of info here.... but trying to answer questions as they come in. I really appreciate the feedback!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

You made a mistake, don't worry, it happens. The most important thing is that you are learning/learned from it all so you can apply it to your next relationship.

You said you had a crush on him for years prior. My guess is, you allowed your heart to lead you places and were kind of blind.

Don't ever stop thinking with your brain and do your best to over write your heart/private parts thinking with it.

You simply ignored all the red flags in the name of love. Happens to MOST!!!

Accept the mistakes you made and move on. He was always this person, so it's hard to blame him too much, and you are certainly partly to blame as well.

Pay CLOSE attention to people as you get to know them. It's SO easy to get caught up and just be blind, especially if intimacy comes into the picture too soon or the sparks are flying all over the place.

This is all part of an internal fight between your brain and heart/private parts. Those 2 will lead you places similar to where you are today.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

THanks for that feedback. I will say, he was very respectful with my wishes NOT to have sex. We did not have sex for a long time. I'm just not a sexual person, really, I can get along just fine without it. That's not to say I don't enjoy it....I'm just not one who jumps into bed with anyone. So sex was NOT important to me, and what made me respect him even more was the fact that he respected my wishes when he'd make advances and I'd say no. I wasn't ready yet. And he waited until I was. A perfect gentleman in that respect! 

I had a crush on his personality. He was fun, (yes, I thought he was pretty nice looking also), but he always surprised me. One memory I have was....I was driving my car. We had a whole care ful of people. He was in the back seat just singing away to a song on the radio. He is a HORRIBLE singer. But he didn't care. I remember that....that touched me.

Yes, I see now that there were warning signs. His personality has definitely changed, he used to be social and we could go out and have a good time....now, nothing. He won't go out, he doesn't do anything unless it's going to his dad and brother's house, or doing something with them.

The more time that goes by, the more I am trying to tell myself I am overreacting. To these bad decisions he's made. But lying to me and using my family's assets for his own personal gain...I just have to keep that in my head. Because I'm trying to tell myself to let it go. But....I think this is too big to let go, and with the other factors (lack of relationship between he and I, and he and our son), I think we ought to just end things and go our separate ways. I have not talked with him about this yet. In fact, we have really not talked at all. That's not healthy either.....


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

I contacted a lawyer a friend of mine used, she's really good. I am waiting to hear back, for my "free" consultation.

I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I can't believe I'm doing this. I keep trying to tell myself I'm just overreacting. Especially as more time goes on. 

I'm struggling. Last week Thursday I had a panic attack and just broke down, and they sent me home from work..


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

And now...I'm in touch with a counselor. Hoping to find out today if insurance will cover her. I'm trying to do everything the right way. But life can't continue like this. We're not really talking, and I can barely stand the sight of him right now. It's been two weeks since that phone call came in from the loan officer.....


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

I have another question. If I decide to pursue a divorce, will me going to counseling affect any of that? I know if I use my insurance I can be "diagnosed." But I can't afford not to. Ok, I'm depressed. But it's my living situation that makes me so. So... I am hoping a therapist can help me "cope" better.....make more informed decisions, etc. But could it bite me in the you-know-where later on?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I don't think it would be legal for anyone to reveal you are in therapy. So how would he know? Also the only use of such info would be to say you are not fit to have custody of the kids. Your actual behavior as a mom would be what is first considered. Ask your lawyer and therapist, but I don't think there is anything to worry about at all.


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## musinglizzy (Apr 29, 2014)

THanks. I've been practically a single mom for all of our son's life. He's been here, just not involved. I was just afraid that if I was in therapy, they'd see that as something being "wrong" with me. My son would never live with his dad. He wouldn't stay....I know. Or he'd be miserable if he did. We both would be miserable, since it's just been he and I for most of his life. 

Actually, it is my HUSBAND who I believe needs therapy, but he sees that as a sign of weakness, and I'm not even telling him at this point that I"m doing it. I am still just sick over all of this...the sneaking, the lying, the loan, not to mention the way life has been for our son all of his life. 

I don't actually have a lawyer yet, I contacted one about a consultation, but when they contacted me back, I had a bit of a panic....and told them I would like to get in with a therapist first, I don't believe there's any "fixing" this.... my trust for him is gone, but at least I can get some help in understanding, and coping with it.


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