# How do you deal with not knowing for sure? Bad day - pls help! men what do u think?



## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

I’ve posted parts of my story in another thread but hoping to get your thoughts now on a specific area…

*A quick background:*

•	Married 11 yrs, and have been with husband for 20+ total. We have one small daughter.
• We were high school sweethearts and I thought we had only ever been with each other… well until I caught him having sex with our neighbor in our basement several months ago… turns out she'd come over to our house when i was out and they'd have sex...
•	Marriage was bad… had been bad for many many years prior to D-Day. 
•	During our marriage, my Husband showed his unhappiness by being very angry and verbally abusive and couldn’t understand why I wasn’t affectionate and loving in return, and why I shut down emotionally. 
•	For over a month after D-Day he denied the affair until he couldn’t any more… i then got trickle truth and now know a lot of the details... 

*Now for the part I need some insight on* *(sorry it gets a bit long here):*
•	WS states that during his 4 month affair he wanted the attention (the fooling around, emails and texts) more than the sex. Yes the act of having sex was exciting because he was craving it but it could have been with anyone – she meant nothing to him. All he wanted was attention and it got to the point where he’d take it from anyone and she threw it at him. 
•	WS states that since he had only been with me prior to her he was less then confident with the sex part and it felt awkward… that the sex ‘didn’t feel right because it wasn’t me’… and ‘it took him long to orgasm with her’ because it felt ‘wrong’ … he claims that they had sex about 6 times, that she pushed for more (often offered to do anything and anywhere) but he tried to put it off whenever possible and when they did have sex he stuck with pretty plain jane stuff. For any men reading this - would a guy who had someone offering to do ANYTHING really not take up the offer?

After reflecting on the last several months (pre and post D-Day) it’s clear that OW and her H are messed up (and meant for each other) – they love to screw with people… and in this case she also ended up screwing my H. OWH knows and even so, in a weird way I think he still feels sorry for my H because of what he had also shared with him about our issues (only from his perspective of course). Living across the street from them isn't easy... and I can't wait until May when they move away (military move). If they don't move we are!

But in the end, most days I feel like I’m having the last laugh. I now have a husband who is loving, affectionate, remorseful, helping, caring, attentive… and is trying to do what ever it takes to make me happy. We have been going to MC and he knows that trust will take time.

But is WS still minimizing his actions and feelings towards her to make me feel better? 

On days like today I also worry about his comments about how the emails and texts were more important to him - they gave him the attention he needed – I’m worried that he got addicted to it. And i know that if he wanted to be in contact with her or someone else to get this 'high' he could and could hide it How do you deal with not knowing for sure? 

*And does anything i've said above stick out as a red flag that I'm not seeing and should worry about?*


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## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

Yes, he is minimizing to spare you. Think about the excitement and newness of being with others sexually for the first time(s). This is the passion that makes people leave their spouses and their kids...literally ruining careers and families in the process. They throw away their values and everything they thought they believed in. And your hubby would like you to believe that he did all this for ho-hum gee golly gosh plain jane sex?

C'mon. Really? You know why he took so long to orgasm (if true): because guys want to really impress chicks the first few times - show 'em who's a real stallion if you know what I mean. I could literally go for an hour straight with new women because these are the times when women are deciding if you're a good lover. Put your very best into the effort sort of thing.

Still, none of this should reflect poorly on you. It's just the newness that is the mind blowing experience, not necessarily the OW. Hell, she could actually have been waaaaay less attractive than you in every way, but still guess what - she is DIFFERENT. And nothing can possibly compare to that if he wants different.

The only thing I could suggest is set up a polygraph to get the truth you want...but really, at this stage, what are you hoping to prove? Whether he was yawning (not likely) or screaming and panting his heart out (bingo!), the sex happened. He put in half the effort to take it there. 

But now you are in a better place moving forward. I'd suggest you do that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well you caught him RED-handed f-cking another woman in your own home. That pretty much says it all. Then, you learn it was a 4-month long affair and the worse thing, IMO, is having to live across the street from these a$$holes. My H said nearly the EXACT same thing that yours said -- how he only did it cause she was 'there' and I wasn't (Um, I was at home, fool!), how she basically offered it up on a silver platter, how she meant nothing to him, how he couldn't f-ck properly, how it felt wrong, and blah blah blah. 

It's called a SCRIPT for that very reason: cause they're all reading the same lines.

Oooh I do not envy you what with having to live in such close proximity and all but here's the thing:

He must end all contact with this slag completely and FOREVER. No contact. AT ALL. He needs to EARN his way back into your heart. Don't just go forigiving him w/o making him face some consequences and mapping out what needs to be done (honesty, TOTAL transparency, marriage counselling, remorse, empathy, and an apology).

If he's not hip to doing all of that and MORE, then no dice, dude.

I don't care if you've been together 20 years or 20 minutes, if he's not down with doing all of the above, cut him loose. And mean it.

Oh and definitely get tested for STDs if you haven't before. SO important.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

afterthefact said:


> For any men reading this - would a guy who had someone offering to do ANYTHING really not take up the offer?


I don't care if I was drunk and she looked like pornstar Jenna freaking Jameson spread out on the bed naked like a buffet, she isn't my wife and I wouldn't take her up on it. In fact, it would disgust me. And believe me, I've been offerred. My dad was a serial cheater and I saw the hurt he gave to my Mom, so cheating is absolutely abhorrent to me. I could NEVER do what he did.


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

First of all thank you for your input!

Second, _*Jellybeans*_, as far as "honesty, TOTAL transparency, marriage counseling, remorse, empathy, and an apology" go, I think he's done all that and continues to do it...I say 'think' because of the comments about not doing anything more then plane jane sex with her... if he's lying about that then he's not honest is he!?!?... thus my conundrum... 

after 5 months I think he's finally realizing the gravity of what he did... or so my IC and the MC are saying... it's either the case or he has gotten damn good at acting and saying the right things...

*Jellybeans* - did you ever get him off 'the script' and if so how?

We've discussed absolutely no contact and as far as i know there hasn't been any. Well except for one day when I made him go over there (me by his side) to admit the affair to her husband and apologize. He wouldn't come to the door so she did and she asked him if there was a message -. i should have jumped in and said 'no' and walked away but didn't .... stupid on my part i know....he then told her why we were there, that there was to be no contact ever again etc. I then told them both a few things...which i shouldn't repeat in writing...

Other then seeing them across the street (which we can't avoid now) i don't think there as been any contact. I've even asked that if and when she is outside he come in - he is not to be out there when she is for any reason. He's done that. He's also made a point of turning his back to her when we are outside as he gets up to come in and leans over to hug and kiss me - again because I asked that he start showing some public signs of affection.... Not sure if this is all good or not? 

But I know that the site of me pisses her off... if i'm outside she walks away and stomps her feet, if she is inside she closes her blinds so she can't see me.... but doesn't when he's outside alone... i told our MC that i think its because she's mad at me for pouring cold water on her party and she still wishes they were having the affair ... also told the MC that the last time she was outside and my H left she almost broke her neck trying to see if he was alone in the car and if anyone was looking...MC says that all those things are her issues not mine and to ignore her. My H said he didn't even notice because he's agreed to never look over that way.

I've made it clear that if I find out that there is anything going on with her or any contact - a call, a note a text a look etc it's over between us. If he ever does anything to make me think he is cheating again, if he ever starts to get verbally abusive again or show anger we are done. If he flirts with others (he always always did) or someone makes a comment that he was being awfully nice to some woman etc - basically anything very questionable - it's over. And I mean it.

The topic sort of came up last night... i said i felt he was at a point where he felt the worst was over and if i'd stay with him after this then he could get away with anything... his response was that 'to the contrary, everyday now he worries about his actions and words and worries that one wrong move and i'd leave'. I nodded.

A polygraph is not an option - they don't have them around here.

*baldmale* - i agree with your comments about the 'newness' of being with her.... and how it is something that is 'different'... and that is what worries me.... how long before he needs that 'newness' again... it's hard to say because I also believe that there is some truth in him saying that he wasn't 'confident'... i actually think it was a bit of both... he likely wanted it more then anything and wanted to do as much as possible but the lack of confidence may have slowed him down (from trying)... and I'm sure that if they hadn't done anything else yet, if it had gone on long enough nothing would have been off the table.

As far as taking so long to orgasm - is see your point on that too. again it could be his version or your version ... i'm sooo confused... but it goes back to your last comment, or what I think you were saying - 'what does it matter, move on'. I think it does in a way because it means he is still lying - catch is that i think i'm at the point now where I'll never truly know. If he is lying he thinks he's protecting me and he wont' budge. But then it makes me wonder if that is a lie what else is too?!?!


As far as 'what they did ' goes, he finally got to the point were he said that he had told me everything and that it was only missionary and cowgirl ... that that was it, and if i was so set on knowing more he'd have to make it up because their wasn't more. So not sure what else to say or do on that point - ie to get him to tell me more?!?!

He also told me that they always did it in the same place... a recliner in our basement - because he was afraid to come upstairs and do it anywhere else - afraid I'd come home and find them - the basement somehow gave him more time to react - or so he thought in his head. He says that the recliner was a bit of an issue because they'd have to be careful with it reclining and all but never moved from it... she wanted on his desk, on the floor etc but he stuck the recliner. The recliner still doesn't make sense to me... but there is no other furniture down there other then his desk..

So if he is not telling the truth about the 'what' and 'where' i don't know what else to ask or how to get him to tell me. Any suggestions?


And then if he won't budge anymore on those topics, does it matter? or should I focus on his current actions and 'good behavior' and move on? And by that i mean enjoy and focus on the good but also keep checking on things?


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

lordmayhem - you've seen the pain it can cause and thus wont' do it, but unfortunately i think many have not so do ;( 

I was just telling my IC today that I had several opportunities to cheat on my H in the last couple of years and that each and every time I'd say to myself that 'i can't do that, i can't do that to my husband, no matter how bad things are between us, i took a vow and can't do that to him, i can't cause him that pain because i know I'd never want him to do it to me'.....or something along those lines  

The IC said that unfortunately we are not all the same and often people get to a point where the just don't think about the consequences before they act and in my case he was convinced he wouldn't get caught so no consequences...


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## just_live (Oct 17, 2011)

It sounds like he is doing all the right things, and you are still paranoid and obsessed with little details that no longer matter. Just let it go! It is time to move on and focus on giving attention to your husband and just loving him, and getting what you need from him as well. You are lucky...after all this, he wants you and only you, and he's worried he will do and say the wrong thing. He is remorseful and he loves you. He knows he messed up bad. What more can you ask for? Focus on your relationship now, and the future, not the past. It is counterproductive to focus on sex positions, whether he lied about them or not, whether he might want texts from someone, etc. If he gets his needs met, including attention from you, he will not go elsewhere for that. If he does, then he has bigger problems and you can't solve them. Just let things go. Fulfill each others' needs. Stop with the petty stuff...it's not productive and it sure doesn't make you feel good. Just do what you need to do to be happy - let go of the past.


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