# That didn't go well!



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

So for the past 2+ months, I had been seeing a girl I go to church with. She's 28 and is 8-9 months out of an 11 yr relationship that included physical abuse and multiple infidelities. She has 3 kids with her ex, goes to school full-time, and works part-time. I'm 41 and have been divorced for almost 6 yrs. 

With her hectic schedule, we've had limited opportunities to do things together but we've managed to do some lunches, about 4-5 dates, a lot of texting and talking on the phone, and yes, we've been intimate. I've even been introduced to her children, although they know me from church.

We'd both discussed the fact that neither of us were seeing other people but she said she wasn't ready to be considered bf/gf yet and that she just wanted to go slow before making that classification. She's consulted with her mother, a close family friend (who's in her 50s), her aunt, and our pastor about me, all of which have given her an approving word.

Everything went south this past week. I thought we would get together because it was her kids weekend with their dad. We had lunch together Thursday. Then I call her Friday and she says she'd made plans with her girls. On Saturday, she didn't respond to my normal "good morning" text until like 3 pm which is highly unusual. Every subsequent text was met with very short replies. Again unusual. Then I asked why she was being of so few words, she said she didn't have much to talk about. Again, so not the norm. She then doesn't return my normal after work phone call. Again, not the norm. I try a few hours later and her "girl" picks up and tells me she's busy. My lady friend eventually answers saying she went bowling with her "girls" and that she didn't owe me any explanation and that I didn't control her. 

Later, we talk and she's going on and on about how she's feeling pressured to be in a relationship she's not ready for. She tells me I'm being controlling and manipulative and that she just couldn't take all the questions. I'm like huh? Just days earlier, she was telling me how awesome and perfect I was and was telling me to think of a way to schedule a getaway!

What gives? And understand I've not spoke to her since Sunday with no plans to initiate any communication. I saw her at church yesterday and managed to receive a smile when eye contact was made. But I'm really more curious than anything about what everyone thinks happened. I'm blown away! Not hurt but just confused! Any how, sorry this was so long!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Wow!

Possibilities:

She met someone else.

She got some info on you that is not flattering. May not be true, but she believes it.

She is Bi Polar. 

She is the cause of their divorce, not the other way around.

She is doing the push pull. Now that you two are getting closer she feels trapped, smothered.

She hated the sexual encounter with you. It went poorly with her. It triggered something bad in her about men.

She has poor communication skills. If she was upset with you she should have told you, not play these games.

She feels you did something wrong, said something wrong. It really hurt her. What was it? I don't know, do you?

She is very unstable......this is a known....a now known. Move on. This one has serious problems. Reminisce about the intimacy that you had with her that one time. YOU enjoyed it. That is good enough, move on.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

As a 41 year old do you really want to get involved with a 28 year old?

Do the 180 if you really don't want to scare her away. Give her room to wonder what's going on with you.

Better, yet, date someone in your age bracket. No younger than 33 in my opinion. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. It's just my opinion.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

4-5 dates is way too soon to meet her kids. Also, she says she wants to take it slow yet has been intimate with you? 

She is not ready and sound like she's not sure of what she wants. Maybe she realized it went too fast and she slammed on the brakes. 

Personally, I'd take the strong hint from her and move on.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Do the 180. No contact. This is a must. Let the dust settle.

She may reach out to you later and give a plausible explanation. Listen, and learn. Maybe you did do something dumb. I don't see it, yet.

Nah, there is no mature explanation. Meaning? She is not mature and not wound tight.

Hopefully, you have given us all the pertinent information.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

I'll be harsh because you need someone to be real with you. Get off your white charger. Take off your shiny armor. Suppress the knight tendencies. This damsel is damaged and will make your life a living hell if you continue along the path toward marriage. 

Say good bye nicely and thank your lucky stars that she gave you a preview of the bat sh!t crazies before you became a couple.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like she is telling you all the things she should have told her abusive ex. You might want to reconsider this relationship, because she has a lot of healing to do if she was in an 11 year abusive relationship. Less than a year out isn't long enough to really heal. And she will likely have trust issues. I'd back away, give her space...and maybe tell her that you would like a break.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She spent Friday night with her ex. Move along.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

One other thing.

She may have 'only' wanted a fling. A romp in bed. That is her right and that is OK.

But you wanted more, and that is your right, also.

But she did not let you down gently. She dropped you like a bad habit. One of those frayed loose scratchy habits that the Nuns wear.

It ain't right. She lacks what is needed in a worthy women. And that is WHY SHE is divorced......in this case, not all cases.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Sounds like she is telling you all the things she should have told her abusive ex. You might want to reconsider this relationship, because she has a lot of healing to do if she was in an 11 year abusive relationship. Less than a year out isn't long enough to really heal. And she will likely have trust issues. I'd back away, give her space...and *maybe tell her that you would like a break.*


Tis' too late.

The "Break" is formed.

The "Brakes" are on.......this relationship.

She was rude, crude and an ungrateful prude.

Do a Hard Charging 180'.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I will get crucified for this but someone who was in an 11 year abusive relationship probably has some issues when it comes to relationships. I would have seen that as a cautionary flag to begin with. 

Cut your losses and move on there are hundreds of thousands of girls out there. Your first feeling when something doesn't work out shouldn't be what did I do wrong. At the very least the way she handled this shows she has some issues. 

Move on, nothing lost.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Who cares?

Dump her, go dark, and never look back.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I considered the idea she'd met someone also. And she's not divorced. They were just together 11 yrs but were never married. She's actually told me she was afraid to open her heart again so that explains her hesitancy to call it an actual relationship. I believe, as well, that she hasn't totally healed. 

She'd stated on a couple of occasions that she basically took care of her ex, who rarely held a job, and that it was nice to actually be around a real man. She also said, in reference to someone else, that she hated being interogated. Heck, I only asked questions because I thought communication was important. She felt differently.

Yes, I believe she has trust issues. I believe she is still hurt. She told me that in our conversation Saturday night. Yes, I was wanting to try to help her thru it but I now realize she's got to do that herself. Yes, her communication skills are terrible. And I told her as much. Her reply was that she hated being questioned and should have to explain herself to a "Grown Ass Man"...her exact words. I got a laugh just typing that...lol.

As far as going dark, that's unfortunately not an option as we go to the same church and I have no plans of leaving. I've made no attempt's to contact her since a late night message Sunday and I have no plans of doing so.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Who cares?
> 
> Dump her, go dark, and never look back.


This is the truth, I think you are better off seeing dating as a numbers game at the beginning. Think of it like shopping, the more people you meet and see the better chance you have to fit the right one. This should be pretty easy in today's world of apps and dating sites and such. 

Don't treat anyone one you meet like they are the only fish in the sea. Their not.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> I considered the idea she'd met someone also. And she's not divorced. They were just together 11 yrs but were never married. She's actually told me she was afraid to open her heart again so that explains her hesitancy to call it an actual relationship. I believe, as well, that she hasn't totally healed.
> 
> She'd stated on a couple of occasions that she basically took care of her ex, who rarely held a job, and that it was nice to actually be around a real man. She also said, in reference to someone else, that she hated being interogated. Heck, I only asked questions because I thought communication was important. She felt differently.
> 
> ...


Sadly this woman sounds like she has some real problems. And 3 kids and an abusive ex who is still in the picture. Seriously dude this is way too hard. She needs a counselor not to be out dating. People who stay in abusive situations for years do so because they have just as many problems as the abusers. You dodged a bullet. Go find a healthy person you will have a much better chance.

And the white knight comment was spot on, white knights get sent out to be killed for the princess. Try being the prince for a while.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So stay in your church, but maintain no contact to the absolute furthest degree possible.

And if/when she approaches you "to talk", simply tell her, "No thanks."


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> So stay in your church, but maintain no contact to the absolute furthest degree possible.
> 
> And if/when she approaches you "to talk", simply tell her, "No thanks."


That's the plan!

I shared this story with a woman I work with and she told me I was fighting a losing battle. Her priorities, Children, school, and work, means she won't have any time for me any time soon. 

I see it as more of an emotional or psychological problem because I've learned enough about her and her past to know there's a lot to overcome.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> That's the plan!
> 
> I shared this story with a woman I work with and she told me I was fighting a losing battle. Her priorities, Children, school, and work, means she won't have any time for me any time soon.
> 
> I see it as more of an emotional or psychological problem because I've learned enough about her and her past to know there's a lot to overcome.


See it as a few good dates. No need to make it anything more then that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@marksaysay this is what I think you should do


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> @marksaysay this is what I think you should do


That was absolutely hilarious!!!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If I remember your threads correctly, this seems a familiar theme from the women in their 20's that you meet at church. Maybe branch out.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Openminded said:


> If I remember your threads correctly, this seems a familiar theme from the women in their 20's that you meet at church. Maybe branch out.


My highest uncompromisable characteristics for a future mate is a like-minded spiritual belief. I will NOT change that!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> My highest uncompromisable characteristics for a future mate is a like-minded spiritual belief. I will NOT change that!!!


That's fine. But maybe try dating women who are a little older, like in their mid-late 30s. They'll be more mature and you'll likely have more in common.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

And they don't have to be from YOUR church. There are other churches.

And there are Christian OLD sites out there, too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> My highest uncompromisable characteristics for a future mate is a like-minded spiritual belief. I will NOT change that!!!


Maybe it is the Church you go to. Does it tend to attract the most down and out? Meaning people who have lived dysfunction. I say it all the time but being a Christian, having grown up in churches I know that lots of Christians convert because they have had terrible lives and or done terrible things. That's great, but that doesn't mean you should pick them to build a relationship with. People who have done those types of things still need a lot of internal work to be safe partners. Friends even.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

This "relationship" actually came unexpectedly. I changed churches for the first time about 5 months ago. I've lived here 18 years. 

Anyhow, she asked me to teach her to play piano because it's one of my talents. We began texting and 2+ months later, here we are.


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## ChipperE (Nov 16, 2016)

That was ehr breaking it off with you. You've given more than the standard 48 hours or so for her to reconsider and she's still not initiating convos with you. 

I read a book during my separationcalled "He's Just Not Into You"...very well known. It taught me a great lesson which I will boil down here: People make time for the things they like/love. If they don't make time they're just not that into you.

Focus yourself on being social, being active and eventually:someone will come along who is into you!


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

ChipperE said:


> That was ehr breaking it off with you. You've given more than the standard 48 hours or so for her to reconsider and she's still not initiating convos with you.
> 
> I read a book during my separationcalled "He's Just Not Into You"...very well known. It taught me a great lesson which I will boil down here: People make time for the things they like/love. If they don't make time they're just not that into you.
> 
> Focus yourself on being social, being active and eventually:someone will come along who is into you!


This is a direct copy and paste from her text Saturday night...

You MAKE time for someone you're n a relationship with. you kinda HAVE time for friends. Right now I'm choosing to spend that time w my girls. It's not a big deal.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Who cares?
> 
> *Dump her, go dark, and never look back.*


*
*

He will.

As soon as he can find the way up. Up and out of the stinking pile of garbage that she dumped on him... after she first dumped him face down in that dark place....in her mind.

Hey, it is the best he can do. *Do a revenge dump on her.*


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> That's fine. But maybe try dating women who are a little older, like in their mid-late 30s. They'll be more mature and you'll likely have more in common.


I agree. 

I think of women as one does a pear. 

A young pear is very firm, but hard on one's incisors.

A mature pear is soft, easy to nibble and oh, so sweet.

And that sweet pear will rid your bowels of yesterdays sour grapes.

Common? Yep, she will even do the come-on's.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> [/B]
> 
> He will.
> 
> ...



It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> [/B]
> 
> He will.
> 
> ...


I don't get this though, it puts way to much importance to the relationship. Dating is like test driving. They tried it out and for whatever reason he wasn't a good fit for her. Doesn't really say anything about him except they didn't fit. I would get it if she was the only women on the earth, but there are so many others. Just like there are so many cars on the lot. 

My overall point is if you make dating so life and death it is going to be brutally hard for you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. *If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage"*.


Seriously? Seriously? Wow.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


You don't have to apologize but since dating is a numbers game you really don't have a very effective strategy. If I were you I would be dating everyone. Just go have fun you never know who you might meet or who may end up being perfect for you, it may be someone that you dismissed because you only had the most perfunctory relationship with. 

It's a lot like hitting the lotto the more tickets you play the better chance you have of hitting that jackpot.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> Seriously? Seriously? Wow.


I know right, both my wife and I were in our late 20's early 30's. First marriage for both. Neither of us had found the right person and we both had high standards. I would assume there are still people out there like we were. I be more worried about the person who got married at 21.

To each his own.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


Perhaps you should attend to your own "baggage" for the time being. There are plenty of people under the age of 18 with "baggage" as well. With age, hopefully, comes insight and maturity. Your criteria is not realistic. Everyone has issues. Everyone has baggage. It is not age-dependent.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I know right, both my wife and I were in our late 20's early 30's. First marriage for both. Neither of us had found the right person and we both had high standards. I would assume there are still people out there like we were. I be more worried about the person who got married at 21.
> 
> To each his own.


I had baggage in my 20's and I didn't know it, which meant I would have a hard time maintaining a healthy relationship. 

I'm in my 30's now. The difference is that now I know about my issues, and I'm striving to address them and grow. I'm capable of a healthy relationship now, which I wasn't previously.

I'm a better partner and a better person now that I'm older.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> Perhaps you should attend to your own "baggage" for the time being. There are plenty of people under the age of 18 with "baggage" as well. With age, hopefully, comes insight and maturity. Your criteria is not realistic. Everyone has issues. Everyone has baggage. It is not age-dependent.


Your response actually validated my view. I only meant that most people after a certain age will have past experiences to have to deal with, i.e., baggage. 

Heck, I've got my own baggage. But where I differ with others is regarding the acknowledgement of the baggage. I know mine is there and I'm working to eliminate it. Others are not so.....acknowledging!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


What's your baggage, then?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yep ^^^^^^^^^

Don't date anyone from your church. Things go south, it becomes awkward like the way it just happened with this woman.

She's got issues. Move on. She wants to talk, be nice. Thank her for the time and that you both are going in two different directions or some other blah.

Geez, I spent two nights with a woman who I thought would be GF material... 10 minutes into sex, I knew (and I think she knew) that this wasn't going to work out. I think I left within an hour when I had planned to stay the night. Never looked back.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> Openminded said:
> 
> 
> > If I remember your threads correctly, this seems a familiar theme from the women in their 20's that you meet at church. Maybe branch out.
> ...


Yes with someone in your appropriate age bracket.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> My highest uncompromisable characteristics for a future mate is a like-minded spiritual belief. I will NOT change that!!!


Don't like to judge, but church, spiritual belief and being intimate with a girl who you dated a handful of times........something doesn't compute here.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

aine said:


> Don't like to judge, but church, spiritual belief and being intimate with a girl who you dated a handful of times........something doesn't compute here.


So being Christian means perfect? 

Anyhow, I understand she has issues that she needs to work through. In our last communication, she said she knew she wasn't able to fully commit to someone right now. I'm really more bothered by her calling me controlling and manipulative and selfish. 

I was controlling because I was looking for communication. When it seemed to be lacking, I asked questions. I guess I'm not supposed to ask questions. Sometimes, a simple question would irritate her. She hated questions.

I was manipulative because when asked why it bothered me she that she made plans to do other things all weekend. I told her it was because she'd asked me to accept her hectic schedule and I had. But when she had time, she chose to do other things. Then she said I was trying to guilt her into doing something. I just answered the question. 

I was selfish because I wanted to spend time with her WHEN she had time. 

That's part of our final conversation. If I was wrong, please let me know. Again, I'm not looking to fix this situation. But I am looking to continue to make my own personal improvements.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

aine said:


> Don't like to judge, but church, spiritual belief and being intimate with a girl who you dated a handful of times........something doesn't compute here.


Yes my thoughts as well. 
Mark, if you are a christian and if she is a Christian, what are you both doing having casual sex? What was she doing living with a man for 9 years?
For us as Christians sex is for marriage only.

She is barely out of a long abusive relationship, she is in no way ready for another relationship. Why did she stay with him is another issue.An emotionally healthy woman would not stay with such a man, of course she may be lying about why it ended. 

Maybe you both need to work on your relationship with God, thinking about what He says about marriage and sex. Talk to your pastor about it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> So being Christian means perfect?


It means no casual sex, and no sex outside marriage. I am sure you know that.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I would say your selection criteria isn't selective enough. Look for more time since their last long-term relationship - at least 1 or 2 years. How many balls are they juggling in their life? 

BTW, I don't think the girl understood what she was saying in the quoted text you shared.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> I would say your selection criteria isn't selective enough. Look for more time since their last long-term relationship - at least 1 or 2 years. How many balls are they juggling in their life?
> 
> BTW, I don't think the girl understood what she was saying in the quoted text you shared.


Again, it just kinda happened. I was asked to teach her piano. We started texting, then we had coffee, then we went on a walk in the trails, etc. 

And are you referring to when she said "you make time for someone you're in a relationship...." ? Actually, that statement told me all I needed to know about the situation.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> Again, it just kinda happened. I was asked to teach her piano. We started texting, then we had coffee, then we went on a walk in the trails, etc.
> 
> And are you referring to when she said "you make time for someone you're in a relationship...." ? Actually, that statement told me all I needed to know about the situation.


Yes, that statement. Making time for someone or something means a priority. She was actually telling you that you weren't a priority to her.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, that statement. Making time for someone or something means a priority. She was actually telling you that you weren't a priority to her.


That's EXACTLY how I took it. To continually thank me for accepting her busy schedule and then not make time for me when she has it means BYE-BYE! lol


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Tis' too late.
> 
> The "Break" is formed.
> 
> ...


Agree, she was rude. Not excusing it, just there might be some reasons behind it, but it's not honestly any guy's problem, she has to heal herself.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> ...it's not honestly any guy's problem, she has to heal herself.


She actually said that. She said the closer VDay came, the more she realized she was still heartbroken and that it was never my job to try to fix that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> She actually said that. She said the closer VDay came, the more she realized she was still heartbroken and that it was never my job to try to fix that.


Well, that's good. My advice? Go no contact with her, and that means blocking her number, and move on. Seriously, or she will string you along foreverrrrr. You sound like a nice guy, and she sounds like she is very confused and lost right now, but also wants a guy around...don't be that guy. lol


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Miss Independent said:


> By the way, I wouldn't ditch my friends for a man I've been seeing for 2 months. I would be crazy to make said guy a priority.


Agreed. 

They've only been dating 2 months. She has 3 kids but has still made time for multiple dates, lunches, calls, texts, etc. She probably rarely has time to see her friends at all, and the one weekend she chooses to do so, OP bombards her with calls, texts and guilt tripping. 

I think she made the right call.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> This "relationship" actually came unexpectedly. I changed churches for the first time about 5 months ago. I've lived here 18 years.
> 
> Anyhow, she asked me to teach her to play piano because it's one of my talents. We began texting and 2+ months later, here we are.


It is quite possible with her schedule(kids, work, etc.) that a relationship is additional work in her mind. In short, she has enough people pulling at her. She does not desire another at this time. 

Date someone who is 10 years or less closer to your age.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is she in therapy to deal with 11 years of abuse her entire adult life? That's not something you get over and come out a whole person without a lot of therapy and TIME. 

Besides, she's much too young for you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> My highest uncompromisable characteristics for a future mate is a like-minded spiritual belief. I will NOT change that!!!


Then maybe the problem is the age of the women you are dating. 

Look for women in their 30's instead of their 20's. See if that helps. If it doesn't, that means you are picking the wrong women regardless of age.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


That's why you only carry your usable baggage forward... if one cannot identify the good from the bad, you will tire from carrying both and then the weariness will be noticed, age matters not.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> So being Christian means perfect?
> 
> Anyhow, I understand she has issues that she needs to work through. In our last communication, she said she knew she wasn't able to fully commit to someone right now. I'm really more bothered by her calling me controlling and manipulative and selfish.
> 
> ...


To some degree you probably were being controlling, manipulative, and selfish (these all scream of a lack of self confidence on your part). If you want to make personal improvements accept that you probably have those characteristics and work on fixing them. Unless, of course, you are OK with them. In that case make no changes and carry on. At your age you should know your strengths and weaknesses and accept that they are part of you. I personally know that I can be a bit of a d!ck at times and I'm OK with it as long as it is at appropriate times and not excessive. If a woman was to call me a d!ck, I'd just figure that she knows me well enough to see the good and bad parts of me, then I'd carry on with my day and not think much more about it. Why do you care what a short term relationship thinks of you?


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> So being Christian means perfect?
> 
> Anyhow, I understand she has issues that she needs to work through. In our last communication, she said she knew she wasn't able to fully commit to someone right now. I'm really more bothered by her calling me controlling and manipulative and selfish.
> 
> ...


You wanted communication Saturday when she had already clearly told you on Friday she was going to be busy that weekend. You saw her Thursday. She was talking about scheduling a getaway with you. So two days pass without seeing each other and you're already freaking out about her not "making time". 

If I were her, I would have dumped you too. You come across as a stage 5 clinger.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Celes said:


> You wanted communication Saturday when she had already clearly told you on Friday she was going to be busy that weekend.


That's just it. She didn't tell me. She told me about Friday night but nothing about Saturday. 

And we normally communicated via text or phone calls daily, so the fact that she hadn't responded was just strange because she'd never NOT responded.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I don't get this though, it puts way to much importance to the relationship. Dating is like test driving. They tried it out and for whatever reason he wasn't a good fit for her. Doesn't really say anything about him except they didn't fit. I would get it if she was the only women on the earth, but there are so many others. Just like there are so many cars on the lot.
> 
> My overall point is if you make dating so life and death it is going to be brutally hard for you.





> Do a revenge dump on her


Note: This is sarcasm. He has been dumped. You cannot realistically dump the original "Dumper". She has FIFO rights... seniority rights to this Patent Claim. He will infringe on her claim to infamy. She will take him to Patent Court. Her seniority rights and sorority backing will buttress her case. Look, she butted him out in her ash tray..... Ash heap. 

She had a perfect right to break it off with him. This is called dating.

I agree, he was not a good fit for her.

*The way she did it was immature*. As mentioned, I would do the 180.... with a smile. Not a sh!t eating grin. A painted-on modest smile that subtly smirks and smacks not a snot.

Be the better man. "Be" by actions, not by subterfuge. Please, no childish reaction to an obvious slight. You are an mature adult. She is not...

Her family may behind this action on her part...especially her daughter. They put the kibosh on your friendly overtures and your probing schlong, that is not a warm buddy from Shillong.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> That's just it. She didn't tell me. She told me about Friday night but nothing about Saturday.
> 
> And we normally communicated via text or phone calls daily, so the fact that she hadn't responded was just strange because she'd never NOT responded.


Got it. From your OP, it said you called her Friday and she told you she made plans. I assumed that meant for the weekend.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> Seriously? Seriously? Wow.


Wow!

At 25, she has designer bags.

At 41, he has baggage. The saggy bags that come with age.

I like em' on a women, not on me. I cannot run as fast.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Celes said:


> Got it. From your OP, it said you called her Friday and she told you she made plans. I assumed that meant for the weekend.


So was communication asking too much?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Clearly it was too much.

The fact that it was too much speaks to her baggage.

The fact that you are struggling to accept that it was too much speaks to your baggage.

Let it go. Follow what @deidre said and go no contact. Don't be her convenience.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> Clearly it was too much.
> 
> The fact that it was too much speaks to her baggage.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I always overanalyze everything! Lol


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> Agreed. I always overanalyze everything! Lol


You said you are committed to self improvement. Why do you over-analyze?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> It's funny you say that. I have no shortage of women who want to be with me. I get FB messages almost daily from women. I'm very picky and I won't apologize for that. Unfortunately, my selective approach hasn't yielded a pleasurable result. That doesn't change my approach at all, though. If you're older than 24 or 25, it's to be understood that you will come with some "baggage".


But not as much damage as the younger woman who just dumped you, though, huh?

OK, Mark, a question. Are you worried about the baggage they might carry?

Or are you worried about the baggage that you carry?

I think you might need some counselling.

Incidentally, older women are lovely.

When I was 25 I dated a woman in her 50s.

Why? Because I thought she was the most beautiful, sexy, funniest, most together woman I had ever met.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> You said you are committed to self improvement. Why do you over-analyze?


That's actually a really good question and one I don't have the answer for.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mark are you a committed Christian?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Mark are you a born again Christian?


I am!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> I am!


Brilliant. Do you know what God says about sex and marriage?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Brilliant. Do you know what God says about sex and marriage?


Yes and I do. I'm fully aware of my transgression. And please don't lecture me on how I'm so awful for having engaged in premarital sex. I know God doesn't condone it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> That's just it. She didn't tell me. She told me about Friday night but nothing about Saturday.
> 
> And we normally communicated via text or phone calls daily, so the fact that she hadn't responded was just strange because she'd never NOT responded.


Hence my last post. She tired of having to respond(answer to someone). It appears her plate is full with what she has going on. 

It is possibly two things:

1. You are clinging too much.
2. Her past experiences she may feel that getting close again to someone may end her right back to what she already has experienced. In short, you may be too good to be true. She is not willing to take that chance.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Yeswecan said:


> Hence my last post. She tired of having to respond(answer to someone). It appears her plate is full with what she has going on.


I think there is a lot of truth to this.




Yeswecan said:


> In short, you may be too good to be true. She is not willing to take that chance.


She would actually tell me that I deserved so much better than her often.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> Yes and I do. I'm fully aware of my transgression. And please don't lecture me on how I'm so awful for having engaged in premarital sex. I know God doesn't condone it.


Not going to lecture you but you seem to treat it in a very casual way. 
There is a reason why God says not to do it, its for our own good. 

A Christian lady may well be concerned that you had casual sex in such a new relationship. It may cause problems with any future women you meet.

How about you talk to your pastor or another mature Christian man in the church about this? Honestly its well worth waiting.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

So you can't scope out a different church or look online for someone with a similar world view?



marksaysay said:


> Openminded said:
> 
> 
> > If I remember your threads correctly, this seems a familiar theme from the women in their 20's that you meet at church. Maybe branch out.
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> That's actually a really good question and one I don't have the answer for.


Insecurity.

Get the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s.

Rule number 1: Silence the little boy, that nagging voice that tells you that you are not good enough, and all of the other worst fears.

You still have work to do.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

marksaysay said:


> This is a direct copy and paste from her text Saturday night...
> 
> You MAKE time for someone you're n a relationship with. you kinda HAVE time for friends. Right now I'm choosing to spend that time w my girls. It's not a big deal.


Maybe since she's come from an abusive relationship she's seeing how you react to her chosing a social life. I get that she's going about it all wrong and hurting you in the process, which sucks. She may not know how to create healthy boundaries in a relationship since her ex probably never let her. It does sound like she needs space, even if she's not going about getting it the right way. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> So for the past 2+ months, I had been seeing a girl I go to church with. She's 28 and is 8-9 months out of an 11 yr relationship that included physical abuse and multiple infidelities. She has 3 kids with her ex, goes to school full-time, and works part-time. I'm 41 and have been divorced for almost 6 yrs.
> 
> With her hectic schedule, we've had limited opportunities to do things together but we've managed to do some lunches, about 4-5 dates, a lot of texting and talking on the phone, and yes, we've been intimate. I've even been introduced to her children, although they know me from church.
> 
> ...


You might be a great guy, but for whatever reason she is not that "into" you. If she doesn't find someone else in the next year, she might be willing to settle, especially with three young kids. However, that is not the life you want. Keep looking for a lady that shows she is as into you and you are to her.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Seriously? Seriously? Wow.


Us women are basket cases don't you know. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Prodigal said:


> Perhaps you should attend to your own "baggage" for the time being. There are plenty of people under the age of 18 with "baggage" as well. With age, hopefully, comes insight and maturity. Your criteria is not realistic. Everyone has issues. Everyone has baggage. It is not age-dependent.


Also an overwhelming number of well rounded baggage free women, even those with a shot ton life experience 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

A wise poster on this site once said hurt people hurt people.

It is as good an indicator as any that it is time to move on.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> She would actually tell me that I deserved so much better than her often.


And some run when they think this. My BIL is in the dating pool. He has dated two that continually have said this. The first bolted after 4 months. The second has hung on over 7 months. I suspect what she is seeing is true. Via my brothers dating stories there is a common theme among most, each has had a screwed up relationship prior. These women builds walls as a defense/response to not get hurt again. I don't read it any other way. Eventually one will dismantle the wall over time as they discover the true you. It appears this current woman is not allowing that to happen. You will get ghosted.

Detached and find one closer to your age.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Not going to lecture you but you seem to treat it in a very casual way.
> There is a reason why God says not to do it, its for our own good.
> 
> A Christian lady may well be concerned that you had casual sex in such a new relationship. It may cause problems with any future women you meet.
> ...


I'm sorry for snapping at you. And I agree.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Yeswecan said:


> It is quite possible with her schedule(kids, work, etc.) that a relationship is additional work in her mind. In short, she has enough people pulling at her. She does not desire another at this time.


Yeah. She would actually say she felt overwhelmed often and that I actually added to her load.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Mollymol said:


> Us women are basket cases don't you know.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


That comment told me everything I needed to know.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> That comment told me everything I needed to know.


I didn't articulate that thought well. I didn't mean baggage in a negative context. I meant in terms of past experiences. We all have a past, both positive and negative.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> Yeah. She would actually say she felt overwhelmed often and that I actually added to her load.


As if piano lessons wouldn't? It seems she thought she wanted a guy then decided she didn't have time for one. That's ok (not the way she went about it, though).


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> I'm sorry for snapping at you. And I agree.


That's OK, maybe you can learn something from this. :smile2:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> I didn't articulate that thought well. I didn't mean baggage in a negative context. I meant in terms of past experiences. We all have a past, both positive and negative.


That's actually WORSE. Now you're saying you don't want to date women closer to your age because they're OLD (at least in your opinion).


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> That's actually WORSE. Now you're saying you don't want to date women closer to your age because they're OLD (at least in your opinion).


NOOOOOOO. That's not what I'm saying. Geesh. I just meant anyone I get involved with will have past experiences that shape how they handle things, make decisions, etc. And to clear the record, I've dated several women my age. I don't mind it at all. This one just happened to me younger.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> NOOOOOOO. That's not what I'm saying. Geesh. I just meant anyone I get involved with will have past experiences that shape how they handle things, make decisions, etc. And to clear the record, I've dated several women my age. I don't mind it at all. This one just happened to me younger.


You may as well give it up, mark. It's turning into a "Who's on First" debate.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> As if piano lessons wouldn't? It seems she thought she wanted a guy then decided she didn't have time for one. That's ok (not the way she went about it, though).


Or he wanted too much too soon.

OP, the more you post, the more you sound like you were trying to move too fast with her.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> Or he wanted too much too soon.
> 
> OP, the more you post, the more you sound like you were trying to move too fast with her.


Honestly, I think this is a huge part of what happened because she'd definitely told me she wanted to take it slow. In my defense, I feel as though the signals I received told me something different. One obvious mistake was getting physical. Maybe she just wanted to have a FWB. I don't know but I couldn't continue if that was all she wanted. I didn't get that idea, though, since she'd gone to great links to get advise about how to make this relationship work from our pastor, her mother, family friends, etc. Then there was the suggestion to start planning a getaway. In my mind, I was devoting a lot to someone who was afraid to define our relationship as bf/gf. I wasn't asking her to get married. 

But I do think a big part of is was her not being totally healed from her previous relationship. I think she's definitely afraid to make a commitment knowing her last experience brought her so much heartbreak. I think she is overwhelmed with all that's going on and that a relationship would be too much work for her, on top of everything else. 

I've learned a lot about myself. I can't be just a friend to someone I'm having sex with. And yes, I know I should abstain for religious reasons, but I didn't and I take full responsibility. But the act does, to me, have a meaning and if we are just "friends", I'll pass on that type of situation. 

I've learned I've got to set better boundaries and that there are probably some insecurities I need to address. There are probably other things that'll pop into my head after I quit typing but those are the major things. Thanks all for your feedback!!!


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> So was communication asking too much?


Yes I think so. 

She wasn't your wife or your gf. You were casually dating her and still in early stages. She told you she wasn't ready to be official. 

She had no obligation to check in with you all the time. She pulled away for a couple of days and you panicked. 

You're either ok with the status quo or not. It sounds like you were pushing for a real relationship and she just wasn't ready. 

No big deal, just incompatible desires.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Yeah. And didn't like being a friend with benefits.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Miss Independent said:


> Did she ask you to be her fwb?


No, but that's essentially what I was to an extent. Yes, we had dinners and lunches. We'd gone on dates and had constant communication daily via text or phone conversations. I'd been introduced to her children. She told everyone about me. We couldn't spend tons of time together which was ok. But we did have sex quite a few times. 

So we weren't exactly FWB but we weren't exactly casually dating, either. I don't think I was asking too much to say we were in a relationship.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

She seems to have sent mixed signals...introducing you to her kids after 2 months? Wow, that's fast. But, it sends a message that you're ''worthy'' enough to be introduced to them. So, I can see why you were thinking it was more serious that it might have been. But, I'd go NC ...because she seems like someone who will use you, when it suits her. Just a feeling I get.

You have your own issues too, like others say...maybe too assuming or controlling, so maybe work on that yourself. But, I would totally break things with this woman, no friendship...nothing. No contact...and move on...work on yourself, and hopefully, meet a woman who you have a connection with, and less drama.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> No, but that's essentially what I was to an extent. Yes, we had dinners and lunches. We'd gone on dates and had constant communication daily via text or phone conversations. I'd been introduced to her children. She told everyone about me. We couldn't spend tons of time together which was ok. But we did have sex quite a few times.
> 
> So we weren't exactly FWB but we weren't exactly casually dating, either. I don't think I was asking too much to say we were in a relationship.


You weren't FWB. 1) You don't meet kids when you're FWB. 2) You don't tell everyone else about the person if you're FWB.

I might consider is a very short relationship. I dated a single dad for about a month. We texted all the time, and spent several hours on the phone most days (he had a 2.5 hour commute, and he would call me on his way either to or from work, depending on the time (rotating shift schedule). We tried to see each other 1-2 times/week, if we could. He worked near where I lived, so sometimes dinner before he had to be at work, or I would drive down to his place on a Friday or Saturday night to spend a few hours with him after his kids went to bed. Had sex quite a few times. He told other people about me.

After a month, he ended it abruptly, out of the blue. Said he just wasn't feeling it.

I was his first "relationship" out of a really bad marriage. (He was actually still technically married at the time, but he had filed, so according to his lawyer, he was free to date.) I think he was just really excited to have someone be into him, and I think he was more excited about the idea of being into someone than he was actually into me, per se. It felt good to be desired by a woman, and to feel the touch of a woman and a woman's body again. That's what it was. I think, after a month, he got over the initial thrill, and he realized we weren't a good match. And, to be honest, as much as I liked him, I knew there were a number of things about him that weren't a good fit for me, either. And I think the whole thing was moving way to fast for him and got way too intense, _even though he was the one driving the intensity_. He was the one initiating all the calls, driving the text conversations. But it was too much for him, and we weren't right for each other.

He's a good guy, and I wish him well. The last time we spoke, he had been dating someone for a while, and it sounded like they were a good fit. I hope the divorce finally went through, and it worked out in his favor, because it was bad. I hope he's happier now.
@marksaysay, anything sound familiar in that story?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> @marksaysay, anything sound familiar in that story?


Absolutely! Very, very familiar!!! One of those rebounds that typically never work out.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> She seems to have sent mixed signals...introducing you to her kids after 2 months? Wow, that's fast. But, it sends a message that you're ''worthy'' enough to be introduced to them. So, I can see why you were thinking it was more serious that it might have been. But, I'd go NC ...because she seems like someone who will use you, when it suits her. Just a feeling I get.
> 
> You have your own issues too, like others say...maybe too assuming or controlling, so maybe work on that yourself. But, I would totally break things with this woman, no friendship...nothing. No contact...and move on...work on yourself, and hopefully, meet a woman who you have a connection with, and less drama.


I felt strongly that there were mixed and confusing signals. 

I know I've got my own issues and I'm taking steps to make improvements. Unfortunately, NC is not an option. I just 5 or 6 months ago started attending this church and I dont think its necessary to leave on her account. I'm just starting to feel comfortable and accepted at this church and I'm not gonna change that because a relationship, or whatever it was, failed. I will keep my distance, though!!!


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> You have your own issues too, like others say...maybe too assuming or controlling, so maybe work on that yourself.


This is an honest question. What exactly is it about my actions that come off as controlling?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> This is an honest question. What exactly is it about my actions that come off as controlling?


Controlling might be a strong word, but maybe presuming that she should already be in a pattern with you after only two months. It's too soon to assume that someone should have a ''norm'' with you, as you mention in your OP. I think that her behavior is confusing, but this is what dating is about...it's about deciding that this person isn't for me, or is for me to explore further. I think you put her on a pedestal, too...she's human just like you, and frankly, she has way too much to heal from, for you to have a healthy relationship with her right now. But, there's something about her that sends mixed signals and it's not your problem that she stayed with an abuser for 11 years, so I see both sides. She has to heal from all of that, and she doesn't sound ready to be in a relationship, tbh.

Also, I wouldn't date people from church. There are some good people there, but from my observations, many just ''use'' the church setting for dating, and that's wrong, IMO.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> Controlling might be a strong word, but maybe presuming that she should already be in a pattern with you after only two months. It's too soon to assume that someone should have a ''norm'' with you, as you mention in your OP. I think that her behavior is confusing, but this is what dating is about...it's about deciding that this person isn't for me, or is for me to explore further. I think you put her on a pedestal, too...she's human just like you, and frankly, she has way too much to heal from, for you to have a healthy relationship with her right now. But, there's something about her that sends mixed signals and it's not your problem that she stayed with an abuser for 11 years, so I see both sides. She has to heal from all of that, and she doesn't sound ready to be in a relationship, tbh.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't date people from church. There are some good people there, but from my observations, many just ''use'' the church setting for dating, and that's wrong, IMO.


First of all, I really appreciate your constructive insight. Secondly, I should apologize in advance because you brought up an interesting take from an outside perspective and I will probably ask more questions. 

I guess to assume a "norm" may have been a little much. The pattern just kinda developed. Admittedly, I'm very much a creature of habit and can get caught up by certain patterns. When something that normally happens doesn't, I want to know why. You can probably guess that from my comments and questions here...lol. Maybe that's also something that I need to try to work on. But how did I put her on a pedestal? 

Also she told me the physical abuse was only during the first couple of years of the relationship. It still doesn't change the fact that she stayed with the abuser, though. Another poster said I was trying to be her "knight" trying to save her. I think there may be some truth to that. After several conversations, I did recognize someone who was hurting and wanted to try to help her.

And while I've had interest in others, she's actually the first I've ever dated from a church I attended. I'm not sure I'd want to do it again.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> But not as much damage as the younger woman who just dumped you, though, huh?
> 
> OK, Mark, a question. Are you worried about the baggage they might carry?
> 
> ...


Oh, I bet she was. I did the same thing at age 23. Or should I say she did. No, ultimately we did!

It was short lived. Her choice, not mine. I was too frisky, too passionate. Now? I am forced to slow down.

By force. Not by choice.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

So I'll admit I've been contemplating sending her flowers for Valentine's. And before you jump on me about the no contact, I'm not gonna do it. Also, my reason for wanting to do so was because I anticipate it'll be a rough day for her and I simply want to give her something to smile about. Again, I am NOT gonna do it. But I did consider it. 

I also turned down a girl's offer to hang out tonight. Mostly due to the fact she's only 25. I'm definitely not going there...lol. Anyhow, I just thought I'd share.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with sending flowers to someone you've been interacting with. It's when you do it and then expect something for doing it. Just send them and move on.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> First of all, I really appreciate your constructive insight. Secondly, I should apologize in advance because you brought up an interesting take from an outside perspective and I will probably ask more questions.
> 
> I guess to assume a "norm" may have been a little much. The pattern just kinda developed. Admittedly, I'm very much a creature of habit and can get caught up by certain patterns. When something that normally happens doesn't, I want to know why. You can probably guess that from my comments and questions here...lol. Maybe that's also something that I need to try to work on. But how did I put her on a pedestal?
> 
> ...


The thing is, you can't help her heal from her past, only she can do that. She can't get over her past with you or any man, either. She has to find healing and it's nice of you to want to help her, but be careful...some women may take advantage of your kindness, so take your time getting to know someone. Don't rush things, if something is meant to be...it will happen as it should.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

What the number to the 25yr old?

Just kidding. I'm not on the market.


Sometimes, you date someone - things seem OKAY. But under the hood - things are not clicking. I dated a very good, smart, sexy, fun woman 12 years ago, she was 30. No fights, no drama. It lasted about two months... when she asked to meet her for dinner. I kinda felt where it was going before I got there. She said the same thing about me but that she "wasn't feeling it" and I told her "okay, that's good. I was feeling the same." and that was that. Then I just went single/fun mode for a few years.

I think - when it happens. Fireworks should happen. Rare too, IMHO.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

So I received this text after totally avoiding her today at church:

Ive gotten so much accomplished..but I do miss you  just fyi. Have a great day

I'm inclined to simply not respond.

Btw, I hadn't made any attempt to contact her since Monday.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> So I received this text after totally avoiding her today at church:
> 
> Ive gotten so much accomplished..but I do miss you  just fyi. Have a great day
> 
> ...


She's playing games. She's butt hurt that you didn't chase after her at church today, so she's trying to get a reaction out of you. 

Stay firm in your resolve and don't respond.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

No response.

In fact, block her number.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> She's playing games. She's butt hurt that you didn't chase after her at church today, so she's trying to get a reaction out of you.
> 
> Stay firm in your resolve and don't respond.


Totally agree. Dont reply, she is fishing.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, we had a conversation that lasted over an hour tonight. We didn't hold anything back. We spoke openly and candidly. It seems to have been a case of not being totally open and honest. I do understand there are no guarantees so I'll keep you all posted.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You really should go no contact.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> Well, we had a conversation that lasted over an hour tonight. We didn't hold anything back. We spoke openly and candidly. It seems to have been a case of not being totally open and honest. I do understand there are no guarantees so I'll keep you all posted.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

OK, let me just throw out a possibility based on some pretty harsh reality comments by some women on another thread:

Is it possible that after you were intimate, she discovered that your "equipment" just didn't measure up to her needs, and she's is being clumsy at ending it for that reason?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

IF you are going to carry on seeing her(which I think is a massive mistake) please go and see your pastor or a mature couple in your church and talk to them about conducting this relationship in a godly way. It hasn't started in a godly way at all. You as a Christian man, need other mature men in your church to be accountable to. She needs to also know that the way she has been for living for years isn't right.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

marksaysay said:


> Well, we had a conversation that lasted over an hour tonight. We didn't hold anything back. We spoke openly and candidly. It seems to have been a case of not being totally open and honest. I do understand there are no guarantees so I'll keep you all posted.


I really think you're wasting your time with this one. Throw this fish back in the sea.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> So I received this text after totally avoiding her today at church:
> 
> Ive gotten so much accomplished..but I do miss you  just fyi. Have a great day
> 
> ...


She is playing you like a yo-yo and you are happy to let her.

IamSomebody


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> Well, we had a conversation that lasted over an hour tonight. We didn't hold anything back. We spoke openly and candidly. *It seems to have been a case of not being totally open and honest.* I do understand there are no guarantees so I'll keep you all posted.


So she was lying to you about being seperated from her ex? She's not really a single mom? She's the most cunning tranny ever? What does this mean?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, things had been going well until last night. We went to a movie and then went and played some arcade games. She asked if I had went out with anyone out during the week we weren't talking. I told her I went to do some karaoke with another girl. The girl was someone who'd had some issues with drugs in the past but is in recovery. 

This girl was not in any way someone I desired a relationship with. We just did karaoke. Heck, while i did drive her there, i only stayed for just over an hour and left. The girl wasnt ready to leave and found another ride. 

She said I disgusted her and that I couldn't even wait longer than a week before entertaining someone else. She acknowledged that we weren't in a committed relationship and that I really didn't do anything wrong. It had more to do with who I spent that brief period with. Really? 

Anyhow, turning the page. Just thought I'd update this.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> Well, things had been going well until last night. We went to a movie and then went and played some arcade gamed. She asked if I had went with anyone out during the week we weren't talking. I told her I went to do some karaoke with another girl. The girl was someone who'd had some issues with drugs in the past but is in recovery.
> 
> This girl was not in any way someone I desired a relationship with. We just did karaoke. Heck, while i did drive her there, i only stayed for just over an hour and left. The girl wasnt ready to leave and found another ride.
> 
> ...


She's pissed that you weren't sitting at home pining away for her while she was out chasing whoever.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> Well, things had been going well until last night. We went to a movie and then went and played some arcade games. She asked if I had went out with anyone out during the week we weren't talking. I told her I went to do some karaoke with another girl. The girl was someone who'd had some issues with drugs in the past but is in recovery.
> 
> This girl was not in any way someone I desired a relationship with. We just did karaoke. Heck, while i did drive her there, i only stayed for just over an hour and left. The girl wasnt ready to leave and found another ride.
> 
> ...


Translation: what????? I was supposed to be a special snowflake!!!!! Now I have to live in reality and it makes me so pissed off!!!!!

Poor muffin


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hey it didn't block pissed off!!!! Me likey!!!!!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> Well, things had been going well until last night. We went to a movie and then went and played some arcade games. She asked if I had went out with anyone out during the week we weren't talking. I told her I went to do some karaoke with another girl. The girl was someone who'd had some issues with drugs in the past but is in recovery.
> 
> This girl was not in any way someone I desired a relationship with. We just did karaoke. Heck, while i did drive her there, i only stayed for just over an hour and left. The girl wasnt ready to leave and found another ride.
> 
> ...


She's a game player, and I'm not talking about the arcade. If I were you that would be the last time I did anything with her.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Why do you continue to waste your time with this woman? She's clearly playing games with you, and there are red flags galore.

You need to walk away from her and not have any more contact with her outside of pleasantries at church.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> She's clearly playing games with you, and there are red flags galore.
> 
> You need to walk away from her and not have any more contact with her outside of pleasantries at church.


I agree. But I am curious about these red flags. Please elaborate.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

It just dawned on me that she already knew the answer to the question. She told me the age and the name of the girl because she's friends with her sister. So why get mad after we've spent time 3-4 hours together after I answered a question she already knew the answer to?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're trying to make sense of her behavior. Have to say that is coming across as a little bit desperate. 

Your ego wants to believe that she was mad because she is really, deep-down just so into you that she can't bear the thought of sharing you with another woman. That ain't it. This isn't about you.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> You're trying to make sense of her behavior. Have to say that is coming across as a little bit desperate.
> 
> Your ego wants to believe that she was mad because she is really, deep-down just so into you that she can't bear the thought of sharing you with another woman. That ain't it. This isn't about you.


Desperate? No. I just thought it was weird if she already knew the answer. If that ain't it, then what is it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

marksaysay said:


> I agree. But I am curious about these red flags. Please elaborate.


LOL...

So when's the next date?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> It just dawned on me that she already knew the answer to the question. She told me the age and the name of the girl because she's friends with her sister. So why get mad after we've spent time 3-4 hours together after I answered a question she already knew the answer to?





FeministInPink said:


> Why do you continue to waste your time with this woman? *She's clearly playing games with you*, and there are red flags galore.
> 
> You need to walk away from her and not have any more contact with her outside of pleasantries at church.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

marksaysay said:


> It just dawned on me that she already knew the answer to the question. She told me the age and the name of the girl because she's friends with her sister. So why get mad after we've spent time 3-4 hours together after I answered a question she already knew the answer to?


You were in the non contact zone by her request? Low interest on her part.:|
Then her friend tells her that you are going out with her sister. Wait...what? He isn't waiting for me? :crying:
Now she's mad...and trying to one up you. When you have unknowingly one upped her.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

mickybill said:


> You were in the non contact zone by her request? Low interest on her part.:|
> Then her friend tells her that you are going out with her sister. Wait...what? He isn't waiting for me? :crying:
> Now she's mad...and trying to one up you. When you have unknowingly one upped her.


Exactly!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> Desperate? No. I just thought it was weird if she already knew the answer. If that ain't it, then what is it?


Control. She's calling the tune and you're dancing to it.

Notice she didn't say the girl you went out with was disgusting - she called you disgusting. Do you really want to keep company with someone so immature? If you aren't desperate, why are you chasing this woman? She shacked up with some guy for 11 years and has 3 children with him. Her schedule doesn't permit her to spend much time with you and then tries to dictate who you see and when even though she doesn't want a committed relationship with you. Ever wonder why her baby daddy didn't put a ring on her finger? Lose her number.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> Control. She's calling the tune and you're dancing to it.
> 
> Notice she didn't say the girl you went out with was disgusting - she called you disgusting. Do you really want to keep company with someone so immature? If you aren't desperate, why are you chasing this woman? She shacked up with some guy for 11 years and has 3 children with him. Her schedule doesn't permit her to spend much time with you and then tries to dictate who you see and when even though she doesn't want a committed relationship with you. Ever wonder why her baby daddy didn't put a ring on her finger? Lose her number.


Well said! And I believe you hit the nail on the head. When she initially desired "space", she said she thought she wanted a man who took control but now she wasn't sure. That's absolutely it!!!

I'm also resigned to think that since she was in a long relationship from 16-27, she missed out on having some "fun". Thus she's not willing to be committed to a relationship. Either way, I'm gonna have to make my exit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? Or No More Mr Nice Guy? If not, read them now. If so, read them again.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? Or No More Mr Nice Guy? If not, read them now. If so, read them again.


I've read neither. Since I'm not married, I just ordered No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Update: I'm 13 pages into this book and I'm already like "WOW"!!! The first chapter has described so many of my characteristics PERFECTLY. This is going to be good!!!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

marksaysay said:


> I've read neither. Since I'm not married, I just ordered No More Mr. Nice Guy.
> 
> Update: I'm 13 pages into this book and I'm already like "WOW"!!! The first chapter has described so many of my characteristics PERFECTLY. This is going to be good!!!


You don't have to be married to read MMSLP, it's a primer on how to keep a woman interested in you. Get it. Don't make me bring Gibbs out again. :wink2:


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Read MMSLP 2012 TWICE.

If fact, I am going to start reading it again tonight as a refresher.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> I've read neither. Since I'm not married, I just ordered No More Mr. Nice Guy.
> 
> Update: I'm 13 pages into this book and I'm already like "WOW"!!! The first chapter has described so many of my characteristics PERFECTLY. This is going to be good!!!


Oh trust me, you WANT to read MMSLP. It has nothing to do with being married and everything to do with attracting women.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Mark, you seem like a super, super nice man.
It sounds like you have a lot desirable qualities of a marriage mate.
I don't know your backstory at all, so I will just reply to the thread in front of me.

Perhaps what you have been trying in regard to dating isn't working for a reason.

God outlined standards of conduct that are for our protection. As you have readily agreed, premarital sex is not acceptable. Yet, you perhaps have engaged in it your whole life, and make excuses like you have on this thread to justify why it is ok. The majority of Christians do. Even the pastors turn a blind eye, they don't want to cause any waves, or lose any donations. That doesn't make it ok in Gods eyes. It either is, or it isn't. We need to consider how GOD feels, and not ourselves as much. We live in a ME ME ME generation. And look at where it has gotten us.

God does not expect from us more than we can give. We all have free will, and get to make our own choices. With this one girl alone you said it happened "many times". So this is your way. This is your norm. Does that make it ok? We cannot do our own things, and sit back and wonder why we are not being blessed in a certain area. We must give God something to bless. How can he truly bless two people that claim Christianty but are committing fornicafion repetedly?

Reflect back on your life. Ask yourself some of the hard questions:

"Am I really letting Gods standards guide me in all things in my life, including in selecting a marriage mate?" 

"When I repeatedly ignore his principles and decide to have sex outside of marriage, what sort of success can I find?" 

"How many of the women I dated thru my churches have also been willing to engage in premarital sex with me?"

"If my pastor, the church members and myself can easily turn a blind eye through excuses ("I'm not perfect". "We are all sinners", "The ransom covers me so it's ok" etc) to Gods laws, is this perhaps a church that might not be acceptable to God?"

"If I was part of a church/faith that this clear bible truth was not only taught from the pulpit but also adhered to by its members, might I be able to find a better quality marriage mate, while at the same time making myself a better man too?"

Asking soul searching Bible/faith type questions and giving genuine, true answers is not easy. Actually doing that though can save your life. 

I need no reply to this post. I simply hope you will sit down in prayer, and answer these and other hard questions about yourself and your faith. May God bless your efforts.



Diana7 said:


> Not going to lecture you but you seem to treat it in a very casual way.
> There is a reason why God says not to do it, its for our own good.
> 
> A Christian lady may well be concerned that you had casual sex in such a new relationship. It may cause problems with any future women you meet.
> ...


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

turnera said:


> Oh trust me, you WANT to read MMSLP. It has nothing to do with being married and everything to do with attracting women.


So right you are! I found a digital copy and have been glued to it. I've also learned I'm a lot 'Beta' and very little 'Alpha'. Looks like it's time to make some changes.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

So, she didn't have much time to spend with you because of her hectic schedule, yet she's disgusted by you for hanging out with another girl while you and your lady weren't seeing each other meanwhile??


She's immature;
undecided;
self-centered; 
craves attention; 
wants to have a guy in her life BUT ONLY according to her terms,
tells you that she has missed you but didn't do anything to show it.
_____________
She's simply testing the waters with you to see how far she can go and how much you can handle...
But in fact, you're too nice for her. Actually, I feel it in your posts that you might have the "too nice guy" syndrome. 

You should have gone NO CONTACT with her long ago...! Have some self-respect and move on.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> So, she didn't have much time to spend with you because of her hectic schedule, yet she's disgusted by you for hanging out with another girl while you and your lady weren't seeing each other meanwhile??
> 
> 
> She's immature;
> ...



All those things you list are correct with one exception. Her disgust, according to her, had as more to do with WHO I hung out with, or so she says. Nonetheless, it shouldn't have mattered anyhow. She wasn't talking to me.

Unfortunately, we attend the same church and I have no desire to leave so I'll just have to deal with the awkwardness of any encounters we have. While I will make no attempts to engage her in any way, I understand encounters will happen. 

Today, there were two unavoidable and unexpected encounters. In one, she was exiting a room prior to service and simple "Hellos" were exchanged (there were several people around and to ignore one another would have been very revealing). On the second, she was leaving the dining room as I was entering. No words were spoken as she turned away as she passed by. I let out a little chuckle...lol. 

As I've began reading the suggested books, I've gained a lot of understanding about some of my flaws and have already taken some steps to make some changes. I'm really unconcerned about her because I know I do "deserve" better, as she would often tell me. It's actually been quite eye-opening and encouraging after learning so much in the little I've read so far. I'm kinda kicking myself in the butt a little knowing I should've read those books years ago when I was going thru my divorce. Anyhow, I'm excited about the changes that lie ahead!!!

P.S.
I didn't mean for this post to be that long...lol


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, I had my first opportunity to test the 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' concept tonight and I must admit, it was a little different than the normal me. 

Someone I barely know asked to borrow money and I said the first thing that popped in my mind, NOPE. Normally, I would've tried to let them off easy by making some kind of excuse as to why I couldn't. Saying what I really thought actually felt GOOD! LOL.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

As I've been reading these books, I've been learning a lot. I learned I did exactly what was necessary to create the attraction with this girl (she told me at the beginning I was a challenge), but then I reverted to mostly Beta characteristics. Doing so, caused whatever attraction she had to fade. I am pretty convinced, as well, that she's been entertaining someone else, too, which is all good. Having learned from my exwife's infidelity and the unfaithfulness of another girlfriend, I saw some huge red flags in that area. I actually went as far as telling her which got a pretty big response from her, so I'm pretty sure there's no going back to this one. 

In the future, I will probably not get physical so quickly with the next lady, 1) because my Christian beliefs tells me I shouldn't and 2) because I can't be just friends with someone I've been intimate with. She will probably have to be over 30, as well...lol.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

That, and unless you are doing nothing more than pursuing a friends-with-benefits relationship, never behave one way to get a girl and another way once you have her.

This method of bait-and-switch is exactly what will cause you to lose her, and it is fair to neither of you.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> This method of bait-and-switch is exactly what will cause you to lose her, and it is fair to neither of you.


I get that now. Although, I'm convinced we weren't a match, I definitely wouldn't want to lose someone I am more compatible with. I started working on my alpha yesterday when I joined a gym with the goal of packing on about 30 lbs of muscle to my 5'10", 160 lb physique. 

I'm ready for this journey!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> That, and unless you are doing nothing more than pursuing a friends-with-benefits relationship, never behave one way to get a girl and another way once you have her.
> 
> This method of bait-and-switch is exactly what will cause you to lose her, and it is fair to neither of you.


QFT!!! :smthumbup:


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm truly amazed at how accurately "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is as it relates to me. It's almost as if it the book was written about me. I'm totally blown away. I've got a lot of work to do!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> I'm truly amazed at how accurately "No More Mr. Nice Guy" is as it relates to me. It's almost as if it the book was written about me. I'm totally blown away. I've got a lot of work to do!!!


Ok, it's done. From now on, every time I recommend NMMNG, I'm going to include "and you're going to come back and say OMG it was written exactly for me!" 

Because you all do it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

So I guess I'll update this thread: You all were SOOOOOO right about this girl! She was just stringing me along, using me as a "filler". I actually knew it deep down but didn't want to admit it. I took her to see her favorite comedian exactly 2 weeks ago. We had a great time but my gut told me something wasn't right. I actually went into the "date" knowing it would be our last. 

We texted sparingly the next day with her sending this huge list of everything she "loved" about me, but I saw it as her simply trying to keep me on the hook. I sent a response and committed to not initiating any more contact. She hasn't reached out since. Imagine that! Lol

Today marks the end of my 2nd week of no contact but it'll all change this Sunday at church, if she's there. I'm not gonna initiate anything but I guess it'll be more like limited contact going forward. I'm gonna chalk this up as another learning experience and simply keep moving forward. 

Prior to our last date, I'd began hitting the gym again with the goal of putting on about 30 lbs of muscle (I started at 5'10", 162). She actually commented on my progress the last time we were together. Since then, I've actually gained another 8 lbs of muscle and almost everyone I run into comments about my physical changes. And women are loving my new physique...lol.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

marksaysay said:


> Today marks the end of my 2nd week of no contact but it'll all change this Sunday at church, if she's there.


Why would it all change?

It's over and done. Other than a sideways glance here or there, no need for any contact whatsover, she's just another churchgoer.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

stixx said:


> Why would it all change?
> 
> It's over and done. Other than a sideways glance here or there, no need for any contact whatsover, she's just another churchgoer.


I was just speaking in the literal sense of my understanding of NC. For the last 2 weeks, there has been no texting, talking, or anything. We haven't seen each other at all. That will change. I guess it'll be more like Limited Contact. I have no intention of initiatiating any conversation.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

If you happen to be in the same building at the same time for matters unrelated to a connection between the two of you and no words are exchanged and there's nothing more than perhaps a sideways glance which you will find impossible to resist, then it's still considered no contact.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

marksaysay said:


> I get that now. Although, I'm convinced we weren't a match, I definitely wouldn't want to lose someone I am more compatible with. I started working on my alpha yesterday when I joined a gym with the goal of packing on about 30 lbs of muscle to my 5'10", 160 lb physique.
> 
> I'm ready for this journey!!!




That's a lot of bulk for your height. Do you have a frame?

Better to replace fat weight with muscle, then bulk. 

But great progress so far. Will you share your secret, although i am 10 years older.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

blueinbr said:


> That's a lot of bulk for your height. Do you have a frame?
> 
> Better to replace fat weight with muscle, then bulk.
> 
> But great progress so far. Will you share your secret, although i am 10 years older.


I've got a thin frame with I'm guessing 8-10% body fat. I've always been that way. I consume about 4000 calories a day, including about 200 grams of protein and similar amount of carbs. I don't really monitor those as much as I should, though. I lift 4-5 days a week, heavy weights and low reps. That's pretty much it.


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