# Walking the Hard Road



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

As of this posting, it has been 3 months since hearing my STBX wanted a divorce - there was a 2 month period preceding this in which I was in limbo (she was unsure if the marriage was something she wanted). My story (as are most) - is both unique and tragic and at this point the events which led to this point are less of a concern to me than this road that I am traveling. What is worth mentioning is that there is no hatred between us and we agree on everything except the marriage. 17 years married and 20 years together. 

The period of limbo was horrible. The divorce was not at all something I suspected or saw coming and was ill prepared for the onslaught of emotions which became a part of my existence for that 2 month period. I began seeing a therapist (never saw one before) right away on a weekly basis and while it helped with coping - it of course did nothing to stop what would become an inevitable end to my marriage. Upon hearing that divorce was 'the right choice' for her - I quickly descended into a dark place that was completely void of hope. Let's say that I still recall the taste in my mouth which is unique to that of a loaded shotgun. A place I'm happy to say I have not returned to since and likely will not again.

I am a deep thinker and at the beginning of this year (a month after the divorce was announced) I decided to take a break from seeing my therapist. I believe that I have a strong, rational mind which is capable of making sound decisions and began to discover that I am also very emotionally driven. I received a lot of input from people trying to 'help' me but given the destructive nature of divorce found it nearly impossible to 'do' many of the things which were suggested... even those things recommended by my therapist. So I spent 3 weeks in January - in a period of solitude having only human interaction (and little at that) in the workplace and none outside of that. Losing her had always been my greatest fear and realizing that I had already lost her, my new greatest fear became not recovering from this loss. 

So I began to devour books on recovering from divorce, scoured the internet for information on the subject, and started to develop a plan that I could have faith in. I maintain absolutely minimal contact and interaction with her - and I have not seen her in person. I learned that 'feelings' come from 'thoughts' - this is not a good thing when someone is a deep thinker such as myself. I have learned, through my own experience and introspection that one cannot rationalize away their feelings or thoughts - that rationalizing, pondering, focusing on, questioning any of the thoughts or feelings only allow them to persist. I also learned more about the grieving process; having never grieved a loss before I tried to gain an understanding for what I could expect in the time to come. Finally, I decided that there would need to be a balance between passive and active healing in this process. 

Being the emotionally driven person that I am - I have learned to filter any 'action' through my rational mind and trust its decision rather than 'doing' what felt right. I found that I would create reasons, make excuses, or somehow justify the need to contact her... a question about this, or to let her know about that - but my mind knows that contact must be minimal and I continue follow this approach. 

I continue to remind myself to not fight with, resist, or get upset with any of the feelings I have. They are neither right or wrong - they just are. I learned to let go of thoughts beginning with the ones that bombarded me the most. I fumbled through this lesson for a couple of weeks before tuning into a method that works for me. So now, when the thoughts persist - I do not question why, I do not 'try' to think of something else, but rather I just start counting prime numbers or reciting the alphabet backwards. My goodness they can be persistent and I find that this is a battle that I wage many times a day.

The day after coming out of the 'dark place' I began journaling extensively. This served three purposes: (1) Something to do... an activity to pass some time, (2) this allowed me to get the thoughts and feelings that were inside me - out and, (3) to document this experience in my life - something which I would be able to return to (years from now) and see how I was able to overcome such a life changing adversity.

I have committed myself to honoring the grieving process. The fierce war that rages inside me between what my mind knows is real and true versus what my heart is desperate to have and is so reluctant to let go of. There are many battlefields in which I wage this war including the pages of my journal, in conversations with friends, and places such as this forum. I have come to accept that the process is slow and very long; that I cannot rush through the process. I understand that, with time, comes an end to this process.

I struggle with the passive versus active approach. My tendency is to want to 'do' nothing. I manage to work everyday - though I'm not as productive as I use to be nor am I as productive as I think I should be (I'm fortunate that my position is not demanding and my boss is understanding asking that I do what must be done when it needs to be done and that I may do 'whatever' during the other times. A lot of my time at work is 'the other time'). After work I spend the evening in my apartment and try to distract myself with TV, reading, journaling, or phone conversations. I do force myself out at least one night a week, dinner with a friend, grocery shopping, etc. I also do my best to make it out on the weekends - but have found I am not comfortable outside the walls of my apartment or my office. A fight I am continuing to fight. 

During this 3 month period I have learned that this process (despite my preference) is not linear. Today does not have to be better than yesterday nor does tomorrow need to be better than today. There simply are good days and there are bad days.

Every day I carry around emotions that range in intensity, the ebb and flow that is so characteristic of the grieving process. Perspectives of my 'old' life, 'new' life, her, myself and the future are so difficult to maintain. And I find that at any given moment I am ambivalent threatened to be torn in half by hurt/sadness and anger.

So I venture on - walking this hard road. Despite the impression of composure that my writing may imply - I am a hot F***ing mess, but at the same time I am confident that I am moving through time toward a fully recovery. I continue to struggle with many of the 'things' that one can expect when trying to heal from an unwanted divorce. I still have urges to reach out to her, but those urges no longer feel like needs. From time to time it feels as though I am waiting for a phone call from her - that I know will never come. And at least once a day - I find that I am shocked that 'this' is where I am in life and that my marriage is over.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Seeing a therapist, reading, journaling, learning about yourself, formulating a plan.....you have take many positive steps on your journey. I’m sure it hurts a lot and you experience many triggers throughout the day, but it sounds like you are well on your way to recovery.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Thank you Frostflower. You're absolutely right - the pain of this journey has at times seemed more than I could bear and everything seems to be a trigger. However, the feelings and their intensity are no where near where they were in the beginning. During the first 6 weeks or so - the feelings and thoughts completely consumed me and I experienced many physical symptoms related to anxiety and depression. Therapy helped significantly in by providing coping skills. Life itself was such a struggle - I felt completely dead inside and mentally checked out.

Two perspectives really helped me - (1) This is absolutely a self-rescue mission and (2) Nothing about this process will be quick. 

It amazes me how much time is take to emotionally accept what the mind recognizes as truth right away. In my case - STBX had EA for over a year - there were illusions of 'working' on the marriage - but in hindsight I do not believe this is true. Recognizing that she is not who I thought she was is unbelievably difficult. I've always seen her in my mind's eye a certain way but the reality of my situation spoke volumes as to her true character. Easy to see - but very hard to look at. I've heard that getting over STBX was going to be like breaking the worse drug habit imaginable - strong, intense cravings, withdrawals, and all the emotional baggage that goes with it. Just knowing I wanted to 'quit' unfortunately hasn't been enough to prevent those things from happening.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> Thank you Frostflower. You're absolutely right - the pain of this journey has at times seemed more than I could bear and everything seems to be a trigger. However, the feelings and their intensity are no where near where they were in the beginning. During the first 6 weeks or so - the feelings and thoughts completely consumed me and I experienced many physical symptoms related to anxiety and depression. Therapy helped significantly in by providing coping skills. Life itself was such a struggle - I felt completely dead inside and mentally checked out.
> 
> Two perspectives really helped me - (1) This is absolutely a self-rescue mission and (2) Nothing about this process will be quick.
> 
> It amazes me how much time is take to emotionally accept what the mind recognizes as truth right away. In my case - STBX had EA for over a year - there were illusions of 'working' on the marriage - but in hindsight I do not believe this is true. Recognizing that she is not who I thought she was is unbelievably difficult. I've always seen her in my mind's eye a certain way but the reality of my situation spoke volumes as to her true character. Easy to see - but very hard to look at. I've heard that getting over STBX was going to be like breaking the worse drug habit imaginable - strong, intense cravings, withdrawals, and all the emotional baggage that goes with it. Just knowing I wanted to 'quit' unfortunately hasn't been enough to prevent those things from happening.


That sounds about right. Knowing you want to quit a drug habit doesn’t preclude you from going through the hell of withdrawal. All you can do is what you’re doing and hope that, at the end of it, you have the strength not to get ‘hooked’ again.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Went out on a date tonight - someone I met online. Felt very nervous and wrong to be meeting another woman - but I had been upfront with my situation and truly had no agenda. Figured I needed to get use to meeting new women and going out.

She very nice - easy to talk with and everything was very comfortable. We ate and had a few drinks over the course of a few hours. I had no intention of talking about 'my situation' but she talked about her divorce (finalized in Oct) and her bitterness toward her EX. She actually had quite a bit to say about 'her situation'. Ironic - I thought I would have been the one to bring up that topic.


----------



## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm a very deep thinker, too. 

Getting laid a few times cleared my head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

So... I get a text from STBX late yesterday afternoon stating that she would "like me to consider joining in the kids counselling sessions". (As I was going on date late night - didn't read it until this morning).

Kids have been in counselling for a couple of months. I have not attended any of their sessions but have discussed "the situation" with them regularly - checking in on where they're at in this process. Like me, they are grieving the loss of the family as they knew it and the old life - I do my best to encourage them to talk it out and my oldest (13) does quite a bit of journalling. I describe a future to them which is a 'new' normal and remind them that they have friends with divorced parents who live happy lives. Also point out that this is a transition period and will be the most difficult time - that 'life' will settle into place as we continue to move forward.

Naturally - they question why this is happening and they often express (when with me) their resistance to this change. They are aware that this was STBXW choice (she actually told them on her own before telling me) - and they are aware that during that 2-month 'limbo' period that I tried to 'save' the marriage. From their perspective - all was normal - not even turbulent. My oldest has asked how can everything be great one week - then ending the next.

STBX has also offered to disclose the 'concerns' she had in the marriage with me through counselling. Despite (during the marriage) my repeated attempts to talk with her - she was adamant that she was happy and that life was good. My intuition led me to suspect she was drifting, but she never engaged my inquiry. As a good husband - I didn't want to force the issue, to make my insecurities hers, and to give her space - hindsight shows me I took on the role of a doormat. She was present enough in the marriage that I didn't suspect she had drifted that far. During this time (over a year) she started and maintained EA - during limbo was insistent no PA but that she had 'strong feelings' for OM. So the way I see it, she made a choice to be with OM. My reply (couple of days ago) regarding her 'concerns' in the marriage is that none of that matters now - the time to discuss those concerns is before the marriage ends not after - before she wandered outside the marriage not after escaping it. 

So she and I do not see eye to eye in how to address the 'why' question that the children are persistent with. I encourage them to ask their mother or therapist and she continues to give them the same generic response "sometimes a decision has to be made, even if it's a hard choice". 

STBX has not given me direct answer, but I do know enough to know marriage is over (obviously). I have expressed my theory to her on how I see it, based on her action not her words. She neither denies or confirms my theory - which I'm okay with; I believe it to be true (writing's on the wall) but I don't know that I need to hear her tell me she left me for another man. Further, I believe she's in denial (a perspective I do not share with her) - downplaying the fallout her choice has had on me and the children. I believe the children have the right to know the truth for why this is happening - to add the information to their grieving process and heal completely. From what I've read - there can be a 'blow back' when they find answers to their questions later in life (when they're older) which can create a rift between them and the parent they then see at fault. 

I believe the children must have a good relationship with their mother - a benefit to them. I do not agree that STBX believes they only need to know what's happening but not why. I have not shared my theory with children because (1) I don't believe I should be the one to tell them (her choice - she should own it with them and field whatever follow up questions arise) and (2) it would make me appear to paint STBX in negative light and I'm concerned she'll deny it to kids claiming I'm bitter. 

STBX asked (couple of days ago) that I 'own up' to my part in marriage ending. (Seriously... WTF?) I said - I truly believe all was wonderful in paradise, she was totally convincing in her lies that she was happy (fooled me, her family, and our friends). How could I own my part - when I believed all was well; when I had no idea there were concerns. Concerns that no longer matter and therefore cannot be used as cause for marriage ending. 

I asked my oldest (last night) if she wanted me to go with her counselling sessions. Her answer is that 'mom thinks it's a good idea'. Hmmm...


----------



## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

I think that attending some sessions with the kids could be good for you all. 

As for your STBX asking you to "own up" why not. 

I do not wish to sound harsh but there is always more we could have done if we had started soon enough.

"own up" to not having kept your STBX interested in maintaining a healthy marriage.
"own up" to not paying enough attention (if you had been she would not have gotten away with the lies).
"own up" to your gullibility (see above).


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Tough day today. The apartment is like emotional quicksand. Staring at the television but watching the reel of thoughts move through my mind. Can't seem to get out from under it today.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry you are having a bad day.

I agree that attending some counselling sessions with the kids would be a good idea. But not to rehash your marriage in front of them. I suggest going first with stbx and discussing with the counsellor what is appropriate to talk about with the kids. 

In terms of you and stbx, some couples counselling may help you find closure so that when you enter a new relationship, it will be without baggage. 

You seem to blame your wife for the breakup of the marriage. But a spouse does not just wander. There must have been factors within the relationship that laid the groundwork for her turning to OM. Why did this happen? Why did you become a ‘doormat’? Why did you allow her not to engage in communication? Unless you figure out what caused the breakdown (and it wasn’t her involvement with another man..... by then the marriage was already broken), you will carry the same patterns of behavior into any new relationships.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but saying that what happened doesn’t mater now now is not going to help you move on in a healthy way. It does matter.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I know it's difficult to get a true sense of 'the story' when reading - not all the details are there and there's the other's perspective that's missing. 

I do blame STBX for the break up of the marriage. While I agree a spouse should not wander - she did. For reasons I'm sure I'll never truly understand. The best I could do was try to engage her and be 'approachable'. She's even confessed that she should have said something a while ago... but that time is gone. 

I understand your reasoning Frostflower - just don't believe it applies to this situation. Had dinner with her sister last night and she believes STBX is too much of a conflict avoider to 'talk'. Her sister (whom I've actually not gotten along with until after trouble started) tells me that STBX actions and choices do not make sense to her. Sister says 'there's not doubt she will regret this'. Words I find no comfort in at this time and refuse to find hope in. 

I believe that at this time - I'm her plan b. This is not a role I will accept. STBX wants to remain 'friends' to which I advise is not even possible at this time - but perhaps there will come a time - won't know until I get there. In the mean time - there is absolutely minimal interaction with her - only seen her twice this year and have only talked on the phone 4 times (i think) including twice this weekend.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> I know it's difficult to get a true sense of 'the story' when reading - not all the details are there and there's the other's perspective that's missing.
> 
> I do blame STBX for the break up of the marriage. While I agree a spouse should not wander - she did. For reasons I'm sure I'll never truly understand. The best I could do was try to engage her and be 'approachable'. She's even confessed that she should have said something a while ago... but that time is gone.
> 
> ...


You should not be anyone’s plan B, good for you for refusing that role.

When i hear that a STBX wants to stay friends, I wonder what their definition of ‘friend’ is. My H said pretty much the same thing after he left me. He left after 32 years of marriage, but we could be ‘friends’?? Boggles the mind!


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> You should not be anyone’s plan B, good for you for refusing that role.
> 
> When i hear that a STBX wants to stay friends, I wonder what their definition of ‘friend’ is. My H said pretty much the same thing after he left me. He left after 32 years of marriage, but we could be ‘friends’?? Boggles the mind!


Has nothing to do with the betrayed spouses feelings.

Its about mitigating their own guilt.

Somehow, they rationalize that they are doing less harm to the BS by offering to be "friends".

The ego is a strange thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

spun said:


> Has nothing to do with the betrayed spouses feelings.
> 
> Its about mitigating their own guilt.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. And I was so desperate to hang onto our relationship, I was all over it....until I learned about OW.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I agree with both your insights. But you can probably imagine - I still more than anything to be wanted. This will pass as I've come to understand, but it hasn't passed as of yet. 

Such a battle to make decision and take action that the mind knows is right when the emotions so strongly oppose. 

I fully agree with you spun - she has done nothing but downplayed the effects of her 'decision' to me and the kids. My concern is less about me (it's destroyed me but don't need to share that with her) - but to not recognize how much the kids are struggling must be denial. Like me, they have their ups and downs - but we'll be okay.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> I agree with both your insights. But you can probably imagine - I still more than anything to be wanted. This will pass as I've come to understand, but it hasn't passed as of yet.
> 
> Such a battle to make decision and take action that the mind knows is right when the emotions so strongly oppose.
> 
> I fully agree with you spun - she has done nothing but downplayed the effects of her 'decision' to me and the kids. My concern is less about me (it's destroyed me but don't need to share that with her) - but to not recognize how much the kids are struggling must be denial. Like me, they have their ups and downs - but we'll be okay.


Trying to make her "see" any other point of view is futile.

What are you doing for you these days?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Seeing my kids - working - finding a place of my own to take the kids a week at a time.

Minimizing contact with her - grieving - journaling - talking it out - getting out (even when I don't want to) - avoiding alcohol - avoiding women - healing - recovering - processing.

Ultimately - doing the best I can...


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes, there are things you should have done different. The same for her. Does she want a dialog?

She was physical with the OM. No doubt about it.

I would let the kids know the truth. Their mom is leaving for someone else. It's a concrete reason. The problem is she won't admit to it and you don't seem to have done any fact-finding.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> Seeing my kids - working - finding a place of my own to take the kids a week at a time.
> 
> Minimizing contact with her - grieving - journaling - talking it out - getting out (even when I don't want to) - avoiding alcohol - avoiding women - healing - recovering - processing.
> 
> Ultimately - doing the best I can...


Good.

Stay the course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I cannot risk telling the children the truth - only to have her (again) deny it and put the kids in the middle. Do not want to hear kids say 'well mom says this' or that.

Whole situation is messed up (as are all stories). Suppose all I can do is put it out there - the fact that we don't see eye to eye seems to be reflective of this situation.

Staystrong - as far as her want for dialogue... yes she wants dialogue - I do not. Where she seems to be the cure for this agony - I know in my mind that she is the poison.


----------



## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Didn't catch the ages of your kids, but they don't need the gory details, IMO. 

They're much more perceptive than we generally give them credit, and will figure it all out in their own time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

old timer said:


> Didn't catch the ages of your kids, but they don't need the gory details, IMO.
> 
> They're much more perceptive than we generally give them credit, and will figure it all out in their own time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. The kids don’t need any more than Mom and Dad don’t get along but hey love the kids very much and none of it is the kids’ fault. Period.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Would be great if it were actually that simple. If we could just tell them because the marriage is over or whatever, but it does not stop my oldest from trying to understand 'why this is happening'. She wants to know how things can be great one week and not the next. She claims "I have a right to know why my life is changing'.

STBX and I have not had 'heated' discussions - they've been calm and away from the children. There was no witnessed breakdown of things - it was out of the blue (for me and the kids). I see them struggle and grieve the loss of the family as they knew it, naturally they're resistant to this change, and feel completely powerless. 

STBX and I talked about this (again) yesterday and do not see eye to eye. I encourage them to ask her, she continues to give a 'blow off' answer, and they come back to me...

From what I've read - children will blame themselves to some degree or another even if they know 'why this is happening'. Hearing reasons that do not make sense to them only increases the likelihood they will assume blame. Their mother made a choice and the consequence of that choice changed the dynamic of the family. I agree they will find out the truth in time, but likely after they've completed the grieving process - new information introduced later will reopen the wound for them and require another round of 'healing'. STBX told children this was her decision and they are bitter with her.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

The reason this is 'happening' is because she fell in love with someone else. You've pretty much said so yourself. 

Your kids will continue to be confused until there at least some recognition that there is another person in your wife's live and that's what is pulling your family apart. 

These aren't 'gory details'. It's a simple fact.

You're treating this situation as if you'd really just grown apart mutually. But it doesn't appear that's the case. It seems the situation is lop-sided, and the reason for separation is coming entirely from your wife's side. MLC, EA/PA, whatever.. 

I'm surprised you are not entertaining a dialog with her. Don't you want to get to the bottom of this? You may not have a chance later...


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> During this time (over a year) she started and maintained EA - during limbo was insistent no PA but that she had 'strong feelings' for OM. So the way I see it, she made a choice to be with OM.


Just to reiterate, people don't leave their spouses and split up their family until the they've 'tasted the goods' (a crass way of putting it but I know no other).

Have you been in the Coping with Infidelity section? Ebb, your wife has been having a physically intimate affair with a man for a while now and doesn't want to be shamed in front of you, her kids, her family, etc. I'm not sure why you are dancing around this issue. Instead of being upset that another man is with your wife, you are 'journaling up a storm'. Sorry, I just don't see where your priorities are at.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Just re-read your thread, Ebb. Whether there has been a PA or just an EA is in some ways a moot point. She left you for another man. 

You are adamant about not discussing the marriage and its break down with her. I don’t understand why. If everything was ‘paradise’ as you believed, then why did your wife fall in love with another man? Knowing this imo would help you move on and would definitely help in future relationships. If you don’t understand what went wrong, how will you know how to avoid the same thing in the future? 

Blaming your wife for the entire failure of the marriage....well. I think you have blinders on. Maybe it is all her fault, but I would want to know.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

STBX is a major conflict avoider - but her own admission should have talked with me about 'issues' she had a long time ago rather than 'fake' her happiness. She reached escape velocity and by the time she was 'caught' - she was already out. 

We've discussed some of the 'issues' she had as recently as a few days ago. It ranged from... "you didn't touch me enough when I was pregnant with..." (that was 9 years ago - told her I was at a loss for how to rectify that one) to "we just don't work well together anymore" (to which I mentioned that's a pretty vague statement - not disagreeing but doesn't provide any content). 

I am adamant about no longer working to determine the breakdown of the marriage. Shortly after EA came to light - I asked her if she thought spending half as much time talking with me about her concerns rather than investing in other relationship would have made a difference in the marriage. She said it wouldn't have mattered. Pretty obvious at that point that she lied and deceived (me and the children) her way through her own grieving process before any of this came out. 

Who among us is perfect.. right? Certainly not me. I cannot make her talk with me, further there's too much ambiguity when she attempts to discuss her 'issues' - I ask questions of clarification, I am patient, not hostile in any sense. I worked and put her through school for her Masters, cooked dinner nearly every night, supported her personal and profession endevours. My point is I was an active participant in the marriage, treated her love and respect, and there was passion right up to the end. Her sister and her family are at a loss for any reason as well - I've asked a lot as to what my contribution may have been. Nothing obvious to them and of course, STBX never mentioned any issues.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Also - the end of this 'recovery process' is acceptance. I truly believe I have done all I could to save the marriage and preserve the family. But it's painfully obvious that she is gone... like way gone. So interactions or discussions with her will only hinder my ability to move past this. 

She's been in IC for almost a year - during the 2 months of 'limbo' I asked if she's discussed OM with her therapist to which she said 'no'. Suggested that therapist can only offer guidance if there is full disclosure.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> Also - the end of this 'recovery process' is acceptance. I truly believe I have done all I could to save the marriage and preserve the family. But it's painfully obvious that she is gone... like way gone. So interactions or discussions with her will only hinder my ability to move past this.
> 
> She's been in IC for almost a year - during the 2 months of 'limbo' I asked if she's discussed OM with her therapist to which she said 'no'. Suggested that therapist can only offer guidance if there is full disclosure.


Interesting that she wouldn’t discuss OM with her therapist. What a waste of money.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I completely agree. I could always see her strong conflict avoiding tendencies in her other relationships (father, sister, co-workers) - she was open to me with her 'issues' of them. Only after taking time away did it don on me that it makes sense if she had 'issues' with me they would not be shared. Fits the pattern, unfortunately. Not being fully open to therapist (of all people right?) cannot allow goals to be reached.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

If you want to know what went wrong with you marriage, contact the OM. I bet she's told him everything.

The fact that she hasn't mentioned OM to her therapist tells you everything you need to know. 

I know I sound like I'm coming on strong, but you're enabling her conflict avoidance. It's going to make this process drag on longer, and it will set the dynamic for your post-D relationship IMO.

Your oldest daughter deserves to know and she needs therapy thereafter. Any behavioural changes on her part? 

I'm going to be pissed at your wife for you if you won't be.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

It's not that I'm not furious - just not vindictive. There's certainly differing opinions on what information should be shared with children - clearly STBX and I don't see eye to eye on this one. She's been seeing a therapist for a couple of months already. 

Her behavior has not changed much - but her ability to concentrate has; continuing to learn coping skills. 

As far as what went wrong in the marriage... I know enough to know she choose not to speak but rather invest her time with someone else. I don't need to investigate further - 'issues' need to be addressed before the marriage ends, not after. 

We all have our own approach - mine is to look out for me and the children. I'm still too close to the 'situation' and continue to battle strong emotions. I'll interact with STBX when I'm ready - in the mean time I'm doing my best to put my world back together.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Just to clarify, I'm not calling on you to be vindictive. I don't want you to punish your wife. 

I'm sorry you are in this situation.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

I hear ya SS and I appreciate your input and your compassion.

S#it strong - just read your story (initial and the recent stuff no all 631 posts). I am sorry for your situation as well brother. I got to that dark place on more than one occasion too... now I'm not allowed to own a gun for awhile.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

So it I had an epiphany last night...

I've always been a loyal and faithful husband and family man. My childhood was crap (physical & emotional abuse) and my parents were very unfaithful to each other. I realized at a young age they were perfect examples for how to not parent or not be a spouse. I put in the effort to be a good husband... a role I very much enjoyed. 

In any case, it donned on me last night that by virtue of this divorce - I am going to have to break my vows and the commitment I made 17 years ago. I'm aware this is a matter of perspective and that this isn't my choice but honoring those vows was kind of a big deal to me. 

Clearly she is not the woman I thought she was nor is the woman that she represented herself as - not someone I should want in my life.


----------



## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Ebb & Flow said:


> So it I had an epiphany last night...
> 
> I've always been a loyal and faithful husband and family man. My childhood was crap (physical & emotional abuse) and my parents were very unfaithful to each other. I realized at a young age they were perfect examples for how to not parent or not be a spouse. I put in the effort to be a good husband... a role I very much enjoyed.
> 
> ...


I find it interesting that you included this word. Is she in fact someone you would still like in your life?


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Wish it weren't true - but at this stage that 'want' is still there. Imagine it will continue to evaporate with time...


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

People do change over time, that can't be helped. 

This is Marriage 2.0 - new rules to everything. 

We're no longer able to rely on vows and commitments. Society does not support it strongly enough anymore and divorce is just too easy to obtain. That's the cynic it me talking..

You had many good years together and you will miss her and it will hurt, buddy. Try not to judge her too much, but don't make her unaccountable either.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Hey SS - I agree society is far too accepting of divorce these days. Only those of us on the receiving end (and children) truly understand its destructive force.


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

Hot F#cking Mess today... Nothing's changed - no contact - just been chugging along then out of nowhere, it feels like I'm just becoming aware of what's happening. Not good feelings coming out of that.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

What has your lawyer told you to expect?


----------



## Ebb & Flow (Mar 6, 2013)

No lawyer - uncontested divorce...


----------

