# Hoping for the best



## ferndog

Its been almost a year since I've seen my ex. She left me and I tried to get her back but she wouldn't budge. A month of me calling and wanting her to talk but to no avail. She had her month set and without a pause she divorced me.
I was so devastated. I was in shock. My beautiful wife , the love of my life just left me.

So I looked in the mirror an I saw an empty shell of a man. I realized so much and admitted my faults. I promised myself to become the best I can be so I gave up bad habits and picked up productive ones.
I now recognize my value. I see that I'm special. Who wouldn't want a hard working, loving, motivated, fun, faithful, dependable guy?

Yes I still need work so I won't date for a while. 

Problem is I'm still in love with my ex. But why wouldn't I be. That's why I married her. In my heart I wish she could see me for who I am. I wish she could see that I regret hurting her (by neglecting her) and my depression is the reason. But not an excuse

I hope one day we can reconcile but even if we don't I guess my biggest fear is of me not showing her what he's always meant to me.

I don't want her back if she doesn't love me. But my closure will be letting her know how much I love her, then I'll be able to let go.

I guess I'm just venting but it's good for my health. I no longer keep feelings trapped in my heart I found out the hard way that it's a losing cause if I do.

Is it wrong to say I love my ex wife? Hmmmm?
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## moxy

If the only hurtful thing you've done is neglect, if she isn't having an affair or hasn't left you to be with a specific someone else, if you truly believe you can change your ways and stop neglecting her and meet her needs (and hopefully, have or will spend some time figuring out why you've neglected her anyway), if you really want her in your life not just because she is unavailable, then tell her your feelings and ask if she'd try marriage counseling as a last ditch effort before you two call it quits,


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## ferndog

moxy said:


> If the only hurtful thing you've done is neglect, if she isn't having an affair or hasn't left you to be with a specific someone else, if you truly believe you can change your ways and stop neglecting her and meet her needs (and hopefully, have or will spend some time figuring out why you've neglected her anyway), if you really want her in your life not just because she is unavailable, then tell her your feelings and ask if she'd try marriage counseling as a last ditch effort before you two call it quits,


Well no she did not leave me for someone else. But I do understand the pain that I caused her and I promised myself to focus on my faults and to truly change. It has taken me 10 months of constant focus, motivation and hard work to finally like myself. But I'm still not at the level I desire to be at. 

I became depressed when her mother died. I love my ex so much that seeing the pain in her eyes caused me to feel powerless. I couldn't bring her mother back (dumb I know). But I became empty through time. 

Some tell me, hold on to hope, others say she is gone

My heart after knowing her for 21 years tells me. She is pulling for me. But more importantly than that I have to stay committed and show my love. I love this woman truly and it's hard living in limbo.
I'm an honest person so I'll tell you my fears

Changing is not an issue, as I will continue to improve and never allow myself to fall back into depression ever again
I just fear that if I don't show her my love, I wouldn't forgive myself 

I also fear that once I reach out to her that she won't see my value
And I fear that I'll never learnto let go

We've never dated. We got together so young (15) and I still have puppy eyes for her.

This is truly a nightmare but just as my father told me
"everyday show her your love by leaving her alone, wake up and respect her as though your still married. Get better and show her you truly changed and once you reach out to her you cannot fail no matter what she sees in you. You cannot fail because you showed yourself the commitment and loyalty you have for your marriage, admitting your faults is the toughest thing a man can do and you did it, lastly if it's true love shell wait."

It hurts me that my sister and brother are Facebook friends with her and in a way it makes me comfertable knowIng she's still there in a way. 

I just want to be loved . I'm a true romantic at heart with a big spirit. I love that woman in every way. I can tell you so much about her that you'll realize why she is worth it. I would literally wait all my life if at the end she would tell me she loves me and means it. 

Sorry if I rambled, I just get caught uP and my heart takes over
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## Davelli0331

If you don't mind my asking, fern, what reasons exactly did your wife cite for leaving?


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## wiigirl

Davelli0331 said:


> If you don't mind my asking, fern, what reasons exactly did your wife cite for leaving?


Wondering that too...








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## ferndog

I'm wondering myself. Here's the last days leading up to this

I was at home and text her to see what she wanted me to do for dinner. She then text me "did you see the letter next to the bed"
I hadn't so I read it. It basically said " maybe we should just let go if you don't love me, we're still young and shouldn't be together if we don't feel it " something to that effect and it stated "let's talk about it. Call me, text me, or email me what ever you think it's best.

So I text her with the work "ok", 

Her response "all you have to say is ok ?" that's all?"

I then responded " no I love you and the ok is ok well talk about it"

I went to a concert that night with my niece, it was planned and was not going to dissapoint her.when I got home , I found her in bed listening to sade "I could hear the music through the ear phones" crying.
I said are you ok? She said leave me alone, what do you want,

And as always I turned away (layed next to her and gave her my back). For so long I did this, so things like this are the reasons although she never said it. (damn depression)

Next day she says "I don't know Fernie maybe if you go to your fathers house for two weeks, well be ok. I just need space. I convinced her not to do this (it took work a lot of work but she was going to give me a chance) I told herr I would change and she said ok" we began to clean the house and we were having fun . 

I'm very playful and she is very sweet. She has accomplished many things in her life and I am very proud of her. She is only 5' and I'm 6' so I remember I got next to her and told her look at me so here she is looking up at me into my eyes and I tell her " you know Gladys I've always looked up to you" 
she started to laugh.

I began to clean the kitchen. And she was at our room. I got this weird vibe so I passed through the room and I saw her. (she didn't see me)
She was sitting on the bed, eyes closed, face red as a tomato holding an empty coin jar. 

This is her coin jar and I had cashed it because I was broke (like always), without telling her.

She then came to me a few minutes later and said "what's this"
I said that's in the past I'm sorry and I'll replace it.

This was her breaking point. 

If I have to give an honest answer , it was nothing big 
It was small little bad habits that added up through the years. 

Somewhere along the line I never grew up. And she got tired of being my mother (I realize this she didn't say it).
I was too needy and dependent.

So she goes to the kitchen, says I need you to go for two weeks, if you love me you'll go. I fought to stay and she said "if you stay I'll just find reasons to hate you"

So I left. On a Monday. On Wednesday I received an email by her stating something like " I'm sorry Fernie but I want a divorce and it's you that caused me to do this through time and theres nothing you can do"

It was an angry letter but nothing personal.

And yup she filed and yup were divorced. 


I don't know if she'll see the good in me
But I have changed so much already
The time I need is to get my finances ready. 

I love this girl, and she deserves to be loved and if I couldn't offer her the best love out there I wouldn't even try. But just as she is special to me, I know in special (just need to keep fixing my issues).

The hardest thing is that every time I tried to call her, she would hang up within a minute. Once I had an anxiety attack, and called her, she didn't pick up. I text her to call because of my anxiety and she did. 
She always said she didn't love me anymore through that month.

I didn't believe it, she's so sweet so even if she didn't "why would she dump me so horribly "

But after a while I started to believe it and I told myself "we'll whatever reason, you just have to get better and with her or without her you need to change and be better"
So our last conversation we had I asked

Gladys if you still respect me please at least tell me what made you stop loving me. I feel like if we're on a boat, I jump in the water first. I'm waiting for you and the boat just leaves" I'm lost and I'm trying for my health to get better. Please tell me. I love you and I want you to at least be my friend"
She broke down and began to cry and said "Fernie I can't be your friend, I still love you"
I told her "babe I love you and you deserve the best and I promise on my soul that one day I'll come back to you a new man, I will focus on myself and my lips will not touch anyone until I offer you my best"

Her response "I won't believe you"
My response "well I'm going to change and well deal with that when the time comes I guess"

And that's it. 10 months later still need to change more but I'm focused. Still loyal to my promise.
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## In_The_Wind

I think at the moment the best thing that you could do would be to start working on yourself, dont call her text her or anything maybe start some new hobbies, start exercising and doing things you like to do she has currently made up her mind leave it at that the more you beg whine snivel etc is a big turn off for her start doing things with your friends 

Good Luck


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## ferndog

In_The_Wind said:


> I think at the moment the best thing that you could do would be to start working on yourself, dont call her text her or anything maybe start some new hobbies, start exercising and doing things you like to do she has currently made up her mind leave it at that the more you beg whine snivel etc is a big turn off for her start doing things with your friends
> 
> Good Luck


Good advice. I haven't talk to her in 6 months so I think I'm doing ok in that front.

Yes I do all those things and I'm doing pretty good. Just received my BS and got accepted to the credential program. Stopped gambling over 8 months ago
Got closer to family. Open with my feelings. Im letting go of the pain. Paying of debts. I draw and silkscreen as a hobbie. And I have two jobs. I just need to get healthier.

I think I'm doing pretty good for a person that honestly wants to change.
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## In_The_Wind

Yes thats great have you considered IC or indiviual counseling to help you deal with some of your issues ?? Most universities have marriage and family centers that offer next to nothing counseling services provided by grad students who work under a licensed professional counselor. I have been married for over 12 years now and about 3 yrs ago i had an affair on my spouse and she had a revenge affair I had already moved out and she didnt know if she wanted to come back or not I am not suggesting this for yourself but it worked for me I started hanging out with a very good looking friend of hers as friends my wife found out about this and suggested that maybe we should try Marriage counselling so we did and I moved back home after about 3 weeks of counselling after about 6months the counselor cut us loose and said we were doing phenomal and she could nt help us anymore that is my experience things have been awesome ever since we both realized we made some stupid decisions and were able to work through them we both have never been happier in learning these lessons 

take care and good luck


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## ferndog

Well one thing that was good about this is that it helped me see my issues.
I feel I need more work . So I focus on my goals. I have seen a therapist and she thinks I'm doing the necessary steps to lead me into a productive lifestyle.

I don't want to see about my ex. Not yet , I'm not ready. But one day I will want to see if we can work it out. Yes I'd be more than willing to go to MC (actually it would be part of our agreement if we are to work things out). 

As far as hanging out with other females to catch her eye. Well I'm not that type of person, I don't want to hurt her anymore. If she wants me shell see my value, if not then I'll figure out my next step.
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## Davelli0331

I think something that might be helpful for you Fern is to start reframing this as something you're doing for yourself with no regard to whether or not your W comes back. In all of your posts, you make allusions to doing all this improving for yourself, but the underlying objective seems to be to get your ex-W back. I know this is d!ckish of me to say, but 10 months is a long time. I think you're making beginning steps to realizing that your ex-W may never come back, but until you really and truly accept it, I think your improvements may stall. Worse, you may bring a lot of that with you to your next LTR.


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## ferndog

Your opinion is not ****ish. It is honest and valid.

Well I have hope because I love her but I'm not delusional.

There's a very good chance she may not come back, but I would hate myself and would not close this chapter if I at least did not try.

10 months is a long time and it will be longer because I need it. I need to grow more. I'll be in limbo until I reach my goals . 

I really am changing for myself because I know I'm not comfortable with who I was. 

So yes I hold hope but I expect nothing. My closure will come once I'm at my best and if she then does not come back, I'll be able to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

Davelli0331 said:


> I think something that might be helpful for you Fern is to start reframing this as something you're doing for yourself with no regard to whether or not your W comes back. In all of your posts, you make allusions to doing all this improving for yourself, but the underlying objective seems to be to get your ex-W back. I know this is d!ckish of me to say, but 10 months is a long time. I think you're making beginning steps to realizing that your ex-W may never come back, but until you really and truly accept it, I think your improvements may stall. Worse, you may bring a lot of that with you to your next LTR.


Part of me being my best is knowing that when I reach out, she won't be there. So this is also why I'm not there yet. But the change in me is for myself.
One cannot change for others. I accepted my faults and want to be better reguardless of the outcome
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## ferndog

Davelli0331 said:


> I think something that might be helpful for you Fern is to start reframing this as something you're doing for yourself with no regard to whether or not your W comes back. In all of your posts, you make allusions to doing all this improving for yourself, but the underlying objective seems to be to get your ex-W back. I know this is d!ckish of me to say, but 10 months is a long time. I think you're making beginning steps to realizing that your ex-W may never come back, but until you really and truly accept it, I think your improvements may stall. Worse, you may bring a lot of that with you to your next LTR.


 Gave your post a lot of thought and I realized that to get to the next level I need to find out if there is any hope for us. I'm comfortable enough to deal with the pain of letting her go or keep holding on.
I went to hey sisters house and told her my feelings thoughts etc (she works with her). I told her if she knew anything and should I keep holding on to hope. She said "honestly I think there is nothing there and you should let go". So yes it hurt but that's an honest answer and I do need to progress.
So I text her and she is going to call me tomorrow. I will see if there is any hope and if not I will begin to fully detach. I don't know what my next step will be but I know I'll be ok.

I will need more time, more work but I'm ready for my progress to continue
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## AUGUSTBABY

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## AUGUSTBABY

Ferndog: I really feel for you and will be sending positive thoughts and strength. Please let us know how it goes. We'll be here either way. Good luck!
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## ferndog

She did not call . I found out she began to date (I think possible bf now early stages). I told her that I knew about her dating and that if she stopped and went to MC with methat we could slowly rebuild our promise of marriage. 
She said she did not want to talk to me and that I should move on. She said our relationship is over reguardless of any other she has. 

It did not go as planned but I was also expecting this. Honestly, she put up with a lot of neglect for so long that I don't blame her for not believing in me. (now I need to learn from this and really listen next time and do and be better)

I sent her a thank you text detailing why I wish her the best

I always enjoyed making her smile so I knew this was my last chance so 
I text her
"I will not text you again because I do respect you. I will miss making you smile so if I must let go I would like to leave you with this

I remember once in your home office I told you to stand up and look at me. We looked at each others eyes and I said "Gladys I've always looked up to you"

(she is 5' I'm 6' 

So feel I got closure. She's a beautiful person.i wish nothing but true happiness she gave me beautiful memories and was faithful to me always. She is moving on because she did not believe I would change and I respect her decision.

I feel sad. Dissapointed at both of us for not making it work.

During all this time I kept hope because our last conversation Pryor to this she admitted she loved me but didn't think I would change

I did all I could to show her I would for both of us

I listened to her needs and left her alone. I wrote letters since oct 26th till this week without missing a day (I would mail them to my sister and she would place them in a box. Btw the box was full). 
My lips has not kissed another woman during our marriage and I remained faithful because that's love.

I focused on my goals I received my BS and will start my credential this fall. I became more open to family aNd friends. I communicate more. I got in touch with my emotions. I stopped negative behavior.

I did a lot for both of us during this time. It was a little to late for her. 

I will continue to work on myself and get better. I'll reflect on my faults and continue to progress.

I will not dwell on why she did things a certain way. I will focus on me.

From this day on I will try not to mention her at all. Yes of course I love her, if you knew this woman you would too. But I also like myself and in trying to get to love myself.
So I'll water my grass with love, understanding, and patience and I'll finish my journey as the person I want to be.

Im happy I tried my best. 
My love is special and worth me showing it to myself and heal before I start any dating. I need to become that special person and learn from my faults . I want no baggage for the next special person in my life. I'll be ok in time. Right now I'm hurt but "the candy man can cause he fixes it with love and makes the world taste good "

I'm gonna be that Fernie 
Just give me time
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## lovingsummer

ferndog, you sound so much like my H... and me like your wife... I keep holding on to the "I'll try, I'll change" because I don't want to let him go. We've been together for 20 years but I'm SO exhausted and not sure how much longer I can "white knuckle" hold on. Is there anything she could have done besides wanting a divorce that would've made you want these changes?

I want so bad for him to get it before it gets to that place because I know in my heart, once I leave, I won't come back.


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## ferndog

lovingsummer said:


> ferndog, you sound so much like my H... and me like your wife... I keep holding on to the "I'll try, I'll change" because I don't want to let him go. We've been together for 20 years but I'm SO exhausted and not sure how much longer I can "white knuckle" hold on. Is there anything she could have done besides wanting a divorce that would've made you want these changes?
> 
> I want so bad for him to get it before it gets to that place because I know in my heart, once I leave, I won't come back.


Wow I'm happy I can help you if I can. Absolutely SHE COULD HAVE PRETENDED SHE WANTED A DIVORCE. Well I'm not sure about your husbands faults or what is missing from your relationship so I'll list mine and hope it helps you

My faults (that I analyzed and admitted)
I was distant
Showed no emotions
No passion
Emotionally absent
Lack sex drive
I showed just enough love to were she would stay
Neglect

What I did have
Loyal
Faithful
True

She stated that I drained the love out of her and I can see it.

When she put her foot down and let me go. It did something to me. I snapped out of it and I realized "why am I hurting my wife so much? I didn't marry her for this. I love her and she deserves better so I need to change".
I realized that for so long I fell into depression (it can creep up and the person doesn't consciously know) this was my issue and my levels ran so deep that after 10 months of everyday focus and constant work I'm barely at a place were I like my self and progress.

Bottom line for me it was not my lack of love for her. It was the lack of love for myself .

I realized what I was losing too late.

this is what she did and it worked for me. It snapped me because it blind sided me but you must be strong and stick to it (well all except the not letting him come back part if he changed of course 


She wrote me a letter 
Something like this "Fernie for so long I've waited for you to change and I don't think your going to. So unless I see something I'll have to move on. I love you but this abuse and neglect has to stop. We're young enough to start a new life tell me what your going to do"

I then told her I love her and that we would work it out. She then found out I had taken the coins from her jar and that was her breaking point.(I always took her money to buy take out food or as I know now comfort food). An issue I'm still dealing with.

She told me to move out for two weeks and then I did. I sent her a text saying "I love you and I'm going to be the best partner ever" I felt at the time I really was going to try but u don't think I could have done it.
Then a day later she sent me an email saying something like "Fernie for so long I wanted you to change. I held on but now it's done. All my love is gone you broke me. You broke me. Within a month I will file for divorce , I'm letting you go please don't contact me and please don't try to change my mind my decision is final"

Bam this woke me. I HAD LOST MY WIFE!!!! Panic time. I did everything . Called her to reconsider, poems drawings notes, flowers . Nope she said I don't love you anymore I'm sorry. Then finally after a month I accepted it and called and said
Gladys your special to me I've always respected you so as a friend now I know you don't love me but why this way why an email it's so hurtful and so painful. I feel like we're on a boat I having a good time. I jump in the water and you and the boat leave. Im in the ocean and I see you in the shore. Why please tell me. 

She broke down crying over the phone "I do love you Fernie but your never going to change "
I said "Gladys this is all I need I will leave you alone and no matter what it takes I will change and show you what you mean to me because your my beautiful Gladys"

And that was the last time since yesterday that I had any contact with her.

Wow this brought a tear to me not because she's gone but because I hurt her so much and she stuck around for so long and I hurt the girl I love.

Well let me focus
My advice
Your husband needs a wake up call. Something emotionally damaging that he won't see. Something that will rattle him and realize he's losing you. Then you have to be strong very very VERY strong (did I mention very ?  
And stick to your guns. Pretend your moving on. Hurt him if you need to a little and make him feel that you gave up. You are tired of it.

Then you must be prepared for his reaction
If he loves you
He will call, he will do everything to tell you he will change. And if you take him back right away he won't 
He needs time to reflect he needs to find his faults and fix them
And then after a little while maybe a month

There's a saying why "you don't know what you got till its gone." he won't miss you or change because your there putting up with it
If he is trying to change you can set things me must do
Go to MC
Deal with his issues
You need to see progress
You need to see motivation
Work ethic
You need to feel like he loves you
And you must be strict and on this and if he sways you must put the foot down and either he changes or he leaves

If he doesn't love you then he won't change and that's that

The issue might be not about love for you but more about love for himself

One thing is for sure, you can't live like this anymore. It's to painful life is to short to wish and wish you need more than that
You need love. We all do
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## ferndog

Sorry for all the details but I wanted to give you as much info that would paint a clear picture. 

I want you to be happy. I'm pulling for you
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## lovingsummer

Thank you ferndog  My H is much like you in the neglecting our marriage, being distant, lies, selfishness, etc. Just now coming on TAM, I am realizing that this is continuing because of ME. 

I have never given consequences for anything other than getting my feelings hurt, angry, etc. I haven't done that probably because I was scared of having to feel like I wasn't worth more than that. I am finally at a place in my life that I need things to be different. I have put so much in this marriage and received so little that it's left me feeling defeated in my own life. 

I guess I would be the typical "walk away wife", since I turned 40 and now I just want to better for the rest of my life whether he's in it or not. 

I have to be strong, yea that would be really hard for me... but I guess that's why I am where I am... It's easier to "rug sweep" than pull myself up by the boot straps... boy has that bit me in the a$$.

I'm headed towards IC to straighten out my crazier than "bat sh!t" mind...


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## ferndog

Yes walk away wife is correct and this is painful but your husband is what I call myself a sleeping husband. He's there but he's not there.

You must be strong and absolutely cause consequences or else no changes will be made. Either you he changes or you change husbands lol.

I know that in many walk away wives they have been neglected for so long that the first person they date usually grows into something serious because any affection shown by a male will be the first in so long because the husband sure hasnt.

So what are you willing to do? 

In my ex wife's case. She is angry even now she told me "I may never truly forgive you for what you've done to me"

I'm seeing it from her shoes . Neglect is so damaging.

There's a song in Spanish named flor sin retoño I guess it would translate to flower that doesn't grow.

It uses the flower as a metaphor.

He planted a flower. He waters it with water from the skies. He gives it attention and after so long his friends tell him . Don't water that flower anymore it's dead it won't grow.

I was that guy watering to late.

Your the flower just about to die.
Your husband can't see it. He's blind to it. Be strong shake him wake him up. He might see his faults and return. I don't see another way. Because he can't see his faults. He's a victim of something that he doesn't even know. And your a victim of his lack of showing love.

Stop being victims
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## ferndog

I'm here To help 

Going to sleep now have to work tomorrow and my changes are always be at work on time and give 100%. 
Honest pay for honest work.

Good luck
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## ferndog

lovingsummer said:


> Thank you ferndog  My H is much like you in the neglecting our marriage, being distant, lies, selfishness, etc. Just now coming on TAM, I am realizing that this is continuing because of me.


Oh yes I forgot to add selfishness on my list
Lies also (little white lies but a constant problem)
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## ferndog

I had sent her a message on Facebook before we text each other on Tuesday. I couldn't resist. I went on to see what I wrote and reflect on it. I'm not sure how Facebook works but I guess it time stamps when it's sent and read. It was read yesterday at 6:00 then I saw that it was read again at 12:00 today.

This is the type of behavior that is self abusive on my part. I must stop . I know I did all I can . Let it Go Fernie and cut the bs. This is not a romantic movie where we get back together at the end. Live learn and let go
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## lovingsummer

I wish I could get to that point "live learn and let go"  Going through the TAM stuff has opened my eyes to MY behavior and how it's helped lead us to where we are. It's not all him, we got together when he was 17 and got pregnant right away. I was 20 so I thought he just needed time to grow up. He has in some ways, but there are major places where he hasn't. I've carried the most of our marriage for the last 20 years, taking care of the kids, etc. 

I allowed him to not have to be responsible and that is my fault. I would get mad, cry, all the emotional stuff, talk til I'm blue in the face. Now, I'm just tired and resentful wondering where I'm going to get the strength to be strong. I guess it will be one day at time and somedays, one minute at a time.


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## ferndog

lovingsummer said:


> I wish I could get to that point "live learn and let go"  Going through the TAM stuff has opened my eyes to MY behavior and how it's helped lead us to where we are. It's not all him, we got together when he was 17 and got pregnant right away. I was 20 so I thought he just needed time to grow up. He has in some ways, but there are major places where he hasn't. I've carried the most of our marriage for the last 20 years, taking care of the kids, etc.
> 
> I allowed him to not have to be responsible and that is my fault. I would get mad, cry, all the emotional stuff, talk til I'm blue in the face. Now, I'm just tired and resentful wondering where I'm going to get the strength to be strong. I guess it will be one day at time and somedays, one minute at a time.


Are you sure your not my ex? Lol
We got together when we were 15. And yes she carried the load. I didn't grow up. We dont have kids but everything else is exactly the same. Yes I never matured. Stayed with kid mentality in some areas.

If you wait and wait. You will get to my ex wife's place and look at us. Lol. There is no us.

Just like you stated , if you get to the point to leave. You are not coming back. I'm giving you an inside into your husbands thinking. He is emotionally disconnected. You can beg. Plead , insist. Cry for him to change. Hello say I'm sorry I will change and guess what. He won't. Not be auss he doesn't want to but because he can see his faults. He only sees the small positive contributions. Not all the things missing.

Here I'll describe myself and tell me if this sounds familiar

I was not willing to talk about painful subjects. I answered with anger (not yelling or screaming but frustrated). Every time my ex would say Fernie let's talk about our problems. I would avoid it by saying "what problems we have some of course but were ok don't worry about it" then the more she tried the more frustrated I would get. So I was not a partner 
A partner shows love, compassion , understanding, they communicate, are affectionate, give signs that show the other that they are appreciated.

I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart. Please don't get to that point of ending the marriage. You will destroy that man. I bet that you feel he has the potential to be a great man but he just can't get there and it's been ages. That's me.

I will try to speak for your husband. He loves you and you are the most important thing in the world to him. He just lost his way. If you say nothing he will stay stuck.

Please ASAP hit him with a curb ball. Snap him out. Move out while he's at work. Do something to tell your done completely and he will snap out if he loves you. But you have to do it. It's up to you. He's a zombie he doesn't know better, he's a kid. Your the mother so punish him. Throw him out the nest so he can fly. 

Enough is enough. Stay string. Think of a way and he will do it.
If you need more clarity ill help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

I have to do small things to keep my progress going. I never changed address in my drivers license (I'm sure because I had hope I would be there again one day )
I have to get rid of anything that reminds me of her.

I have the big picture with us (the one that guest sign at weddings) 
I feel sad throwing it. What should I do with it? 

"ain't nothing gonna change my stride, oh no, I got to keep on moving"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

ferndog said:


> Are you sure your not my ex? Lol
> We got together when we were 15. And yes she carried the load. I didn't grow up. We dont have kids but everything else is exactly the same. Yes I never matured. Stayed with kid mentality in some areas.
> 
> If you wait and wait. You will get to my ex wife's place and look at us. Lol. There is no us.
> 
> Just like you stated , if you get to the point to leave. You are not coming back. I'm giving you an inside into your husbands thinking. He is emotionally disconnected. You can beg. Plead , insist. Cry for him to change. Hello say I'm sorry I will change and guess what. He won't. Not be auss he doesn't want to but because he can see his faults. He only sees the small positive contributions. Not all the things missing.
> 
> Here I'll describe myself and tell me if this sounds familiar
> 
> I was not willing to talk about painful subjects. I answered with anger (not yelling or screaming but frustrated). Every time my ex would say Fernie let's talk about our problems. I would avoid it by saying "what problems we have some of course but were ok don't worry about it" then the more she tried the more frustrated I would get. So I was not a partner
> A partner shows love, compassion , understanding, they communicate, are affectionate, give signs that show the other that they are appreciated.
> 
> I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart. Please don't get to that point of ending the marriage. You will destroy that man. I bet that you feel he has the potential to be a great man but he just can't get there and it's been ages. That's me.
> 
> I will try to speak for your husband. He loves you and you are the most important thing in the world to him. He just lost his way. If you say nothing he will stay stuck.
> 
> Please ASAP hit him with a curb ball. Snap him out. Move out while he's at work. Do something to tell your done completely and he will snap out if he loves you. But you have to do it. It's up to you. He's a zombie he doesn't know better, he's a kid. Your the mother so punish him. Throw him out the nest so he can fly.
> 
> Enough is enough. Stay string. Think of a way and he will do it.
> If you need more clarity ill help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you sure you're not my husband??  
You have hit this smack in the middle of the bullseye! I was amazed on reading this how similar the situation is. 

I take responsibility for just being ok with taking care of everything because it was easier than fighting him on it. I should have never done that but I did. Then about 2 years ago (I was 38) I just began getting tired, really really tired. 

I've had some thyroid problems, I have depression, anxiety, etc. I went to the doctors and had my medicine upped, changed, and still nothing helped. I was just EXHAUSTED... Of course I no longer had the energy of a 20 year old like I did when we first got together. I really started asking/begging/demanding (none worked btw) for him to help more, be more part of the marriage, etc. Of course I always got the I'll change, do better, try.. then 2-7 days later back to the same.

I've really looked at this wrong because I looked at it like I wasn't worth the effort to him. I haven't left yet, only threatened which is the only way to get him to change for a little bit. I think a lot of not pushing it was me because I was afraid that he WOULD just walk away because he's so emotionally distant. That scared the hell out of me. 

He does do the focusing on little things that he's doing and usually shifts the blame onto me for one reason or another. I asked him a couple of years ago, what does being a husband mean to you? He said, I don't know, I've never really thought about it. I was thinking REALLY??? :scratchhead: :scratchhead: :scratchhead: You've been married for 14 years and never thought about it???? He's swears he's never given it much thought... ugh... 

I do know that he loves me, and I don't want to the mother to punish the child... I want a partner, a husband... Someone who cares about my feelings and happiness as much as their own. Someone who will be strong when I feel weak, someone I can depend on and trust. I don't have with him even though I want it so badly.. I can't make that decision or choice for him but I can't sacrifice myself for him or our marriage anymore. 

I do love him, care for him, I still think he's sexy as he!!, we have good "chemistry" together and when he kisses me, I still melt like butter. I don't want any other person but him... I just can't carry the weight of everything anymore. Does that even make sense? :scratchhead:

I'm going to give your advice a shot, going to set up therapy for myself to deal with my issues that I've been "rug sweeping" for years. 

I admire your courage ferndog


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## ferndog

Lovingsummer 
I'm proud of myself I hurt because she said no but I'm at peace because I did all I could. I showed love, change patience and it wasn't enough but I have to take care of myself. Just as much as I saw her beauty as a person inside and out, I recognize my self worth and I will take this and prove to myself that I can learn and be better. My goal be the best me so one day I can find the best her and together we can be the best we. And always focus on us and never let small things get so deep as they got into me.

I'll be the best Fernie possible. I have no regrets. None. I did what I had to when pushed. 

It's easy to give advice because as the saying goes
"when one gives advice is usually a regret"

Love yourself . You are a beautiful person for trying. Your here on TAM trying to find answers to keep your marriage together. Your doing your part. 
He doesn't want to be in my shoes. Especially because you guys have children. (I didn't. thank god at this point)

What would he do, how would he feel. I can just imagine him in a room thinking "why me, why can't she see I love her" and then the pain of you moving on to another person and he having no choice in the matter. Hell feel abandoned and have to deal with child custody. That's awful.

(see how I focus more on him. Because I relate to him)

I'm sorry this is what I'm trying to change also to listen more and focus on the subject.

Therapy for you is awesome. My ex was always sleepy and tired with no energy. She was depressed. And I feel that I made her this way (or at least contributed by my lack of emotional bonding)
Now I hear she into aerobics, lost weight. Looks younger. And I'm thinking that is awesome. I'm glad she found something to motivate her (to bad it was me leaving ;(

So maybe your husband is adding to your depression. I can see it clearly that changes have to be made.

Sure I'll miss my ex but at the end she had the courage to say enough. And she felt she needed more out of life. Well good for her

Now I have to do the same

And in time (looks like your close to that point) your at that verge also 

One last thing. Tell your husband this "I would really like for us to go to therapy" and his answer will be something like "we don't need it"

If he says that then that's my twin
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AUGUSTBABY

ferndog said:


> I have to do small things to keep my progress going. I never changed address in my drivers license (I'm sure because I had hope I would be there again one day )
> I have to get rid of anything that reminds me of her.
> 
> I have the big picture with us (the one that guest sign at weddings)
> I feel sad throwing it. What should I do with it?
> 
> "ain't nothing gonna change my stride, oh no, I got to keep on moving"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Give it to your sister to put with the letters. Deal with them later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

I try not to think of her at all. When I do I block it. I wish that she loved me but she does not. 
Anyway I don't like where this is going so let me flip it 

I'm exercising again. I'm lifting weights and joined an after school program at work to run marathons. 

Ill start school on sep 20th so I want to focus in the meantime. I have a lot of free time right now
I work m-f 8-2:30 so what should I do? I'm thinking getting back to drawing. I'm ok at drawing so I design shirts as a hobbie. I guess once I start again I'll post it here.

Going to make a shirt for myself that says focus, love, and patience

I'm going to keep a journal of my self discovery. As far as the picture. If I keep it, isn't in away keeping hope? Will subconsciously help her remain there?
I don't want to fool myself thinking I'm progressing then if one day she calls, my heart will skip a bit and butterflies will fly.

Maybe I'm thinking too much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

ferndog said:


> Lovingsummer
> So maybe your husband is adding to your depression. I can see it clearly that changes have to be made.
> 
> Sure I'll miss my ex but at the end she had the courage to say enough. And she felt she needed more out of life. Well good for her
> 
> 
> One last thing. Tell your husband this "I would really like for us to go to therapy" and his answer will be something like "we don't need it"
> 
> If he says that then that's my twin
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I think you're right about adding to my depression and he has depression as well (we both take meds) which makes it harder. A counselor once told him that we will not stay together long because we both have depression.  But that was about 10 years or so ago... He doesn't have a problem going to counseling... he has a problem talking about anything.. to anyone... so frustrating.. 

He also adds to my anxiety 10 fold. He's become a "p!ssed off at the world" kind of person and his anger (he's not a yeller but he withdraws ALOT) causes me great anxiety. So I end up trying to head it off at the pass so to speak and run around trying to take care of anything and everything that just "might" upset him. THIS IS MY FAULT... I KNOW... Because if he's upset/angry about something he doesn't talk to me (or the kids much) withdraws horribly. So here I am trying to take care of everything so he'll talk to me and the kids and not bring tension into the house. 

Now, I'm just so tired... I've put myself last, I don't do anything for myself, buy myself anything, etc. (again MY fault) I've completely lost myself to the point that I don't even KNOW what I would do for myself. I'm starting to work on it though, I have to.

I know that he loves me on some level even though he RARELY tells me how he feels about me (good, bad or otherwise). He just doesn't seem to care about what being a H/partner, etc. is all about and if he does care, the effort isn't there. 

I've tried iniating the conversation about what he thinks a husband should be? What does he think a wife should be? He just says he doesn't know.. he hasn't ever thought about it. 

I just love him so much and all I've ever wanted was for us to grow old together, raise our kids, enjoy our grandkids if/when they come. I know what I need to do though because I can't go on living this way. My greatest fear in this has always been that he will breathe a sigh of relief, then start dancing around singing "ding dong... the b!tch is gone"... 

I have tried so hard to be a good wife (what I thought was...now seeing the error of my thinking) I just wish I was worth that much effort from him


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## ferndog

lovingsummer said:


> I think you're right about adding to my depression and he has depression as well (we both take meds) which makes it harder. A counselor once told him that we will not stay together long because we both have depression.  But that was about 10 years or so ago... He doesn't have a problem going to counseling... he has a problem talking about anything.. to anyone... so frustrating..
> 
> He also adds to my anxiety 10 fold. He's become a "p!ssed off at the world" kind of person and his anger (he's not a yeller but he withdraws ALOT) causes me great anxiety. So I end up trying to head it off at the pass so to speak and run around trying to take care of anything and everything that just "might" upset him. THIS IS MY FAULT... I KNOW... Because if he's upset/angry about something he doesn't talk to me (or the kids much) withdraws horribly. So here I am trying to take care of everything so he'll talk to me and the kids and not bring tension into the house.
> 
> Now, I'm just so tired... I've put myself last, I don't do anything for myself, buy myself anything, etc. (again MY fault) I've completely lost myself to the point that I don't even KNOW what I would do for myself. I'm starting to work on it though, I have to.
> 
> I know that he loves me on some level even though he RARELY tells me how he feels about me (good, bad or otherwise). He just doesn't seem to care about what being a H/partner, etc. is all about and if he does care, the effort isn't there.
> 
> I've tried iniating the conversation about what he thinks a husband should be? What does he think a wife should be? He just says he doesn't know.. he hasn't ever thought about it.
> 
> I just love him so much and all I've ever wanted was for us to grow old together, raise our kids, enjoy our grandkids if/when they come. I know what I need to do though because I can't go on living this way. My greatest fear in this has always been that he will breathe a sigh of relief, then start dancing around singing "ding dong... the b!tch is gone"...
> 
> I have tried so hard to be a good wife (what I thought was...now seeing the error of my thinking) I just wish I was worth that much effort from him


Im positive he loves you. He is just lost. How will he ever fix something that he doesn't know is broken. He thinks this is life. He forgot the passion.

If you want to make baby steps to get him out of his shell you have to get out of the funk. Not sure if you drive or not but if you can drop of the kids off to a babysitter/ family member (or if they are older they can go - full family trips). Do stuff that's different . Go to the beach, go hiking, to the snow, to the park, have a family BBQ (include others). Try something different.
and hope he slowly regains a sence of life. 

If you can start going to the gym (if you don't) start to take extra care About your appearance makeup/nails/hair. Wear a nice dress etc
And start acting and feeling happy and wanted and attractive. He will start to wonder what's going on. He might get jealous and he might start questioning you. This will be a reaction that shows he still loves you. 

These are suttle things that lets you know if he is able to notice. I bet he will.

My ex always did her nails and hair but one day she just dressed up and as she's doing her make up I started to look at her and she saw me through the mirror. She said "what ?"
I said " can't I look at my wife?". She rolled her eyes and said "whatever " .
I kept looking because she was just so beautiful. I would rarely get emotions that reminded me how much she meant to me so I stood up next to her and told her "Gladys your a beautiful woman and I still get the butterflies".
She turns to me and I see her eyes were watery and says "you know Fernie , you don't know what this means. To me it's been too long I thought you forgot about me"
And then in time back to the same old Fernie.

Lovingsummer have better luck than me, you have a family with him and I'm sure both of you are worth loving each other. Just try your hardest for both of you to express it.

Curve ball will save your marriage 
Or let you know he can't return
But you need it. Both of you do
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

Thanks ferndog  I am trying to get into the swing of things... My kids are teenagers so I don't need a babysitter (just liquor... hehe). I am starting to work out, not because of him, for me (that was a big one on my what am I not happy about me list). I can't do my nails though... I'm a nail biter  and if I do my nails, I pick at them... so hopefully working out will help with my anxiety and I won't be so tempting to chew and pick... fingers crossed...

But I'll try doing the other things because I have slacked on hair and makeup "just because". I feel better with it done anyway. That's the point right!

He doesn't come home for 3 more days so I have a little time to put myself in check before he gets here. 

Thanks for the support... you have no idea what it means to me (or maybe you do)


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## ferndog

You'll be ok
Keep motivation and focus.
That word is very important to me because one thought can lead to other.
One action to another etc
So focus on the little things you can control each day (such as clean, be organized, etc) those small things lead to other things ( working out, productive hobbies, motivation) those things lead to bigger things (work ethic, finances, home structure) those things impower your self esteem and self worth then you love yourself.
This will lead to you making clear sound decisions about your future (marriage, large purchases, family etc).

If you begin to make these changes, you will respect yourself and no one can put you down because your soul knows your doing your best (not perfect but trying)

You'll build the courage to take any news because your soul is healthy. (this I know first hand)

So the word is FOCUS 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

I think you're right about adding to my depression and he has depression as well (we both take meds) which makes it harder. A counselor once told him that we will not stay together long because we both have depression.  But that was about 10 years or so ago... He doesn't have a problem going to counseling... he has a problem talking about anything.. to anyone... so frustrating.. 


Wow loving summer I'm so sorry I just caught something so important in your post,
S counselor told you that you wouldn't make it because you both had depression and that was 10 YEARS AGO!!!

I think you both have suffered enough. 10 years. 10 years of hurt. Something is not working for sure.

Go to therapy and stay on task. Reflect and focus on changes to benefit you. You only live once (that we know of , too bad we're not cats they have 9 lives so do lucky 

You both deserve a chance at happiness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

One day there was a beautiful couple that got married. They were full of love, romance, and happiness then one day the husband stopped caring. She filed for divorce and never came back the end. 

Yes it's true I'll learn from it but I also like my silliness (that I'll never lose)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

I just wanted to thank you again for your help... He has chosen not to take responsibility for his part even though I have. I can no longer do this, no longer rug sweep and pretend it will be ok. My focus will be on me and my kids... I wish you the best in your focus and crossing my fingers that I don't lose mine...


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## ferndog

another sad ending just because the H is clueless as to how much he is hurting his wife and family. All he has to do is slowly realize his mistakes and make little changes that will lead to bigger ones and then you'll both be happy. But it won't happen. He won't change until your long gone ;(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

He is not the only one to blame, I've made my share of mistakes... I've been trying to break our vicious cycle for about 2 years. I probably wasn't going about it correctly, who knows... but I was willing to take responsibility for my mistakes and my actions, apologize and work through it... He wanted to continue to tell me the various reasons why things were my fault... vicious cycle continues... it had to stop somewhere... 

I became a walk away wife today ferndog.... and IT SUCKS BALLZ!!!


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## ferndog

lovingsummer said:


> He is not the only one to blame, I've made my share of mistakes... I've been trying to break our vicious cycle for about 2 years. I probably wasn't going about it correctly, who knows... but I was willing to take responsibility for my mistakes and my actions, apologize and work through it... He wanted to continue to tell me the various reasons why things were my fault... vicious cycle continues... it had to stop somewhere...
> 
> I became a walk away wife today ferndog.... and IT SUCKS BALLZ!!!


Well when ever you need help you know we all care at TAM so we all are here for you. Keep your chin up you can only control what you do not others. I wish you love and happiness at the end of your dark tunnel. There will be light
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

Doing better. Started running and lifting weights. I can't wait fitter school on sep 20th. 
I try not to focus on what's out of my hands. I just know there is a light at the end of this tunnel and I will exit a way better person all around than when I went in
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

How you doing lovingsummer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

Actually doing better, thanks for asking... He actually asked me on a date for dinner so we could talk. (melted my heart) We actually got a chance to have a long talk and we BOTH took responsibility for our actions that have led us to where we are right now. We got a lot off our chests and our minds, things that we haven't talked about in a long, long time. Some were uncomfortable but they needed to be talked about.

I told him about your story and he said there is no way in HEL! he wants that to happen because he knows I won't turn back either.

He agreed that things need to change and if he can't make it happen and MC won't help, then we just need to move on instead of tearing eachother apart. I still have a ton of work that I need to do on me and I'm going to continue to do that. It will make me a better person as a whole. 

We have a lot of healing to do and we know that it's not going to happen over night or next week. But I think as long as WE stay committed to making this marriage the best, I think it has a chance. I love my husband, I love our family being whole and I know he is a good man. You were exactly right that he has been "sleeping", on auto pilot in our marriage. (he admitted this) He said he knows what that he has a good woman and he's going to make damn sure she has a good man. I was in tears (I'm such a girl  ) because he's never said anything like that to me before.

I've come to the conclusion after we talked that I wasn't making him feel like very much of a man. I'm pretty independent and stubborn as the day is long. I told him that he is my protector, he is the one that I look up to because of his strength and ability to fix, tackle and take care of things without irrational and emotional connection to it.(not every woman is like that, but I am) He had no idea that I saw him that way and I always put on the front of not needing a man. I worked for the first 17 years we were together, had my own car, could change my own tires, oil, etc. I had money and all that. I think I saw his self esteem grow in front of my eyes and good for him. I had no idea that he didn't know I needed him as my MAN!!! Boy, have I screwed this up right along with him.

We talked for hours and he even told me that he knew I wanted to grow old with him. Wanted to finish raising our kids together and be Grandparents TOGETHER. So we can take them to the park, skipping rocks in the river, take them to feed the fish at the fish hatchery just like we did with the kids when they were little. And that I wanted us to enjoy that full circle together... Can you believe that? HE WAS LISTENING ALL ALONG!!!! He said that there is not a chance in hel! that another man will take his beautiful wife to do these things because he was failing as a husband and pushed her away. 

He has never in 20 years said things like this to me... I was shocked!!! We know we both have alot of work to doto heal our marriage and we know that there is no guarantee it will work out. But if we are both working on ourselves and both working on the marriage... I think there may be a chance.

Thank you so much ferndog. I knew by your experience that we had to get everything on the table in order to see exactly what was broke so we knew what to fix and what was ok. I wish you so much luck in your new goals in life. Keep posting, I'm using your strength to self improve for myself as well. I have much work to do.


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## ferndog

Wow. Amazing. Amazing
Just beautiful I'm so so happy for both of you 
I know it will take time but as long as both of you are commited it will all be ok.
I cannot stress this enough. Communicate every day. Everyday share feelings and experiences. Plan stuff together "a family that plays together stays together"

I told you lovingsummer , that man loves you. It's just something in us that just makes us not notice what the hell were doing. I'm do glad you talked to him. And YOU WOKE HIM UP!!!!!!
I have a feeling your going to gain more respect and love with every action he makes. This was a positive day for you both and you made my day 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

"The love you give is = to the love you'll get it's just a matter of time and that's a fact" evidence
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

Update lovingsummer?

Oh and for a good read go to sex in marriage. I posted something I recently discovered about online dating 
No I'm not dating. Lol it will take me longer.
But I ran into something interesting and maybe one can help me understand it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

I was just coming on here to get an update from you  Things are still going ok, lots and lots we have to work on... It's hard to be patient and work on things slowly, it didn't go to crap fast and it won't be fixed fast... It's not easy to not give up but we're determined because we're worth it and so is the family.

I'll have to take a peek at the dating thing 

Hope you are staying positive and focused... I'm learning this is hard to do no matter which direction you're going...


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## ferndog

Update. I guess that when my ex shut the door on us it was way earlier than I had. I hoped prayed And made many positive changes not only so she would return but so we would be happy. When I reached out to her on 8/14/12 she made it very clear that she wanted nothing to do with me. Not even hear my voice. She has moves on and I had no choice but to accept it. I guess I was more prepared than I thought. I love her . How can I not 20 faithful years with her and being only 36. We both made mistakes and I have no idea if she accepts hers or not. But I do see mine and I'm a better person for accepting them and fixing them. I am detaching from her very well. It may be that my heart knows I did all I could. That my love was true. 
I don't feel like a victim although she did disrespect me at the end. I wish her the best but I know I deserve better. I continue to focus on my faults and every day I get stronger and more secure about myself. I viewed divorce as disrespectful and shameful but I forgave myself because I didn't quit. 

I have met some nice people. And hope to build new friendships (since my old friends are mutual I rather stay away). 
I must not be that bad since I have gotten date offers by females. It is too soon for me. But I will be ok.
School starts sep 20th and I can't wait 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovingsummer

Thanks for the update ferndog, glad to hear that you are doing better. Haven't been on here much since my H and I are spending a lot of time working on things. So far so good.. but he leaves tomorrow to go back to work for 2 weeks  It's a nice feeling to be sad that he's leaving instead of looking forward to a break from the chaos...


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## ferndog

I'm very happy for you both. I'm extremely proud of you. Having a heart to heart conversation with the person you love and accepting the possibility of rejection must have been difficult. However true love was felt from underneath all the anger and pain and it is slowly winning. Now your husband will be gone for a short while and you can now reflect on all the changes both of you have made . When you love that man  and he loves you. Now this is the beginning of your new lives together always remain focused and love yourself . Be the best you can be and this will bring you both close I'm here if you need anything but I think you got it from here

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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