# Rock and a Hard Place



## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

My wife of two years and partner of five has been difficult to talk to about this, so I'll post out a wall of text here and ask for opinions. My wife always had an issue with my masturbation. She doesn't want me to because she feels I lasted to long when I did. I stopped altogether a year ago. She told me that she will pleasure me whenever I want if I didn't. That lasted about two weeks. I can't say I'm unhappy about that part because I never wanted her to feel like it is a chore. Since then we have had some kind of sexual interaction about once ever one or two weeks. We talked about it around once a month for about five months afterward. Between her low drive, her refusing me frequently, and her much lower libido the conversation ended with her in tears and me unwilling to bring it up to her again. For the last three or four months I have been having dreams about having sex with other people, and it makes me highly concerned. I have never been unfaithful, and I never want to be. However, my dreams oppose that very ideology. Last week I approached her and was rejected, so I went to sleep knowing that I would dream about someone else. I woke up even more frustrated, which is typical of this situation, and left wondering what to do. I love my wife, but I hate our sexual relationship. I hate that I am so often frustrated over the underwhelming amount of sexual interaction we have. I hate that I don't even feel like I can talk to her about it, and that gave me the realization that I don't have the slightest idea about how to fix any of it. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

I think you are overthinking it a bit. My wife tells me the same thing, she doesn't want me to masturbate and she also told me we can have sex any time I want, which to be fair she does go though with. Sometimes she's tired and just lets me do the work. Other times she's into it, but I don't get the impression she is ever upset about it. If your wife tells you she will pleasure you and follows though, just take her up on it. If she doesn't follow through you can masturbate. She doesn't have the right to tell you that you can't. You don't even have to talk about it with her. Just do it in the shower. As for dreams, they are just that. You have no control over dreams and it doesn't mean you are cheating on her if you have a dream. If the rest of your marriage is going well, I would say you are in good shape.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

In addition to the fact that I would have to lie to my wife about masturbating, if she caught me masturbating and I had said nothing to her about it she would feel as if I was lying through omission. To be fair, I do agree with this sentiment. If I asked her not to do something and she did it behind my back without consulting me about it I would be upset as well. 

Even if I felt that I should be doing this behind her back, she walks into the bathroom periodically. This is how she found out that I was masturbating to begin with.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

OK don't lie then. She really doesn't have the right to control you on that level anyway. Just tell her that. It's kind of extreme being jealous of your right hand. She can either pleasure you or you will do it yourself. End of story.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You are saying if she rejects you, and tells you "No!", she also expects you to go away and not masturbate as a consequence of that rejection?


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

She doesn't see it that way. She never tells me, "no" so she doesn't see it as such. She tells me why she thinks we shouldn't at the time. But yes, after she tells me why she feels we shouldn't she still doesn't want me to. I've brought it up in such a situation and she feels like I am being impatient.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

Again, it isn't her decision. If asks you to hold off for some specific reason like for instance the next day is Valentines day and you guys are planning something, that's one thing. However if it's an ongoing situation and you don't think you are getting enough sex, she certainly has no right to tell you what you can do with your own body. You are not breaking your marriage vows by masturbating. You really need to make that understood. Your wife shoudn't be ****ing with you like that.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

Rhubarb said:


> Again, it isn't her decision. If asks you to hold off for some specific reason like for instance the next day is Valentines day and you guys are planning something, that's one thing. However if it's an ongoing situation and you don't think you are getting enough sex, she certainly has no right to tell you what you can do with your own body. You are not breaking your marriage vows by masturbating. You really need to make that understood. Your wife shoudn't be ****ing with you like that.


In the past I felt the same way. I didn't see why it was such a big deal. When she told me that she didn't want me to because I last too long and that sex is difficult for her because of how long I last. That did change things in the perspective of the conversation. After that, anytime I did masturbate she would be upset with me because my masturbation exacerbated our issues sexually. That is why I stopped altogether a year ago.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I talked to my wife many, many years ago about sexual frequency. I explained to her that I can go about 2 days without sex before it starts weighing on my mine. By three or four days, I'm looking for a release. I don't mind doing it myself, but something has to give or I'll be uncomfortable. I think that's true of most young men. 

You're stuck in the classic case of mismatched sex drives. You need to find a way to get her to understand that your sex drive is a like a biological imperative. Her trying to control when you get a release and keeping that well below your natural rate is going to backfire on her. You'll be whacking it without her blessing or worse. It is what it is. It'd be like you telling her she can only pee once every other day. You may want that. She may want that. But it isn't going to work.

Incidentally, it worked out well for my wife and I. She is similarly high drive, so we just started having sex every day or two. That and she doesn't mind when I take care of my own needs if she's not feeling well or something.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

FalCod said:


> I talked to my wife many, many years ago about sexual frequency. I explained to her that I can go about 2 days without sex before it starts weighing on my mine. By three or four days, I'm looking for a release. I don't mind doing it myself, but something has to give or I'll be uncomfortable. I think that's true of most young men.
> 
> You're stuck in the classic case of mismatched sex drives. You need to find a way to get her to understand that your sex drive is a like a biological imperative. Her trying to control when you get a release and keeping that well below your natural rate is going to backfire on her. You'll be whacking it without her blessing or worse. It is what it is. It'd be like you telling her she can only pee once every other day. You may want that. She may want that. But it isn't going to work.
> 
> Incidentally, it worked out well for my wife and I. She is similarly high drive, so we just started having sex every day or two. That and she doesn't mind when I take care of my own needs if she's not feeling well or something.


I tried talking about it with her. I'm not sure if I'm not explaining it in a way that she understands or if she just doesn't want to see the point of view I was portraying, but that was the last conversation we had about this. Obviously, it didn't go so well.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are stuck. This will be your life going forward.

IMO it's a take it or leave it situation.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Hows this marriage working for you in general?

Is she controling in other areas.

Who takes care of the bills?

She dosen't refuse you she just explains why its not a good time?

What the hells the difference...lol


Grow a pair and tell her your mismatch sex drive sucks and she not the boss of when you can masterbate. That maybe your not compatible sexually . That your thinking you don't waant to dpend the rest of you like with a fridged wife.


If you do not have kids I would advise that you don't unless you relize that this sexuall incopatibility will worsen greatly after kids arrive and you are willing to always for the rest of this marriage be sexually deprived.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> You are stuck. This will be your life going forward.
> 
> IMO it's a take it or leave it situation.


I know your being a prick about it, but that is how I feel. If I take things into my own hands I'm an insensitive ass who is damaging our sexual relationship, if I don't I wake up humping holes in my mattress. It is this very feeling that led me to this forum.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hows this marriage working for you in general?
> 
> Is she controling in other areas.
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to how these questions relate, but:

In other areas she explains to me why she would, or wouldn't, want me to do something and we discuss it. I would say she is middle of the road in other areas, as she can be stubborn over her point of view with some things.

I make the budget and she pays the bills. 

And yes, we have kids.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Trying to get a feel if she controls everything.

And if you are letting her controls everything.

Women don't find week men sexy.

So you guy disscus it then she explains why and then she gets her way 90% of the time?

I think your deluded in thinking you have much say about anything in your marriage,

That statement isn't ment to piss you off its ment as a wake up call .start paying attention to how much input you really have and how much she has.


Your not a team. She just explains or justifies her actions and you go along with it.


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

chillymorn69 said:


> Trying to get a feel if she controls everything.
> 
> And if you are letting her controls everything.
> 
> ...


We are a team. I know, it is what every deluded man says but it is true none the less. I stand my ground, and I don't back down when what she wants/thinks doesn't make sense. She doesn't do anything contrary to what we agree on without my approval. 

In areas where we don't agree it goes about 60/40. I do let her control some things. We are on a fairly tight budget, and I will make some wiggle room in it if she brings me something she wants to buy and I can see value in it. Outside of that it always comes down to logic. 

And I'm not offended by your implication, I know that many people feel that they are a controlling interest in relationships when they aren't.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Whattodo2

It sounds like her issue with masturbation is that it causes you to take too long to orgasm with penetrative sex afterwards, thereby causing her pain? If that is the case, can you not pull out of her when the sex takes too long and just have her help you masturbate to completion? Or you can finish the job yourself on her?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

What to do...and every man on here.

I have an excellent reply to your wife and i have been very very clear with my wife when she is is not interested it sex...next time she is dismayed with you wanting to masturbate tell her "are you trying to kill me?" .."i masturbate to stay alive" (drop mic) 

so tell her "if you won't save my life then i will"

"Medical experts have claimed men who masturbate could be reducing their cancer risk.

Research has discovered ejaculating at least 21 times a month could ward off developing the most common form of cancer."

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/how-often-men-should-masturbate-13304433


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## LeananSidhe (Feb 6, 2018)

You know your wife better than anyone here (hopefully). 

I can relate to her not wanting you to masturbate. When my husband spends a lot of time masturbating, he sometimes has problems reaching an orgasm from sex. It can take awhile or sometimes not at all. So I do understand what she’s thinking...but it’s also unfair and unrealistic to have you completely abstain without her holding up her end of the bargain. 
Talk to her about it. Let her know that you’ve been staying strong for her but that it’s causing you discomfort at night and ask her if she has any ideas for how you two can fix things. If her answer is “tough it out” then you can and should obviously counter offer. It’s not fair for her to decide this for you. Don’t threaten anything or bring up other women, just let her know that you need something to change whether that’s more sex with her or masturbation (or whatever you decide you want to fight for). 

I don’t know how shy you two are but what about if she watches you masturbate? When I was going through my LD years, my husband used to ask me if I wanted to watch him. It was nice because I felt like I was part of things but also didn’t have to actually perform. Sometimes I might kiss him or touch him while he did it and occasionally talk dirty, or sometimes is just lay there and watch. Who knows, it might turn her on and turn into something else.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Whattodo2 said:


> I know your being a prick about it, but that is how I feel. If I take things into my own hands I'm an insensitive ass who is damaging our sexual relationship, if I don't I wake up humping holes in my mattress. It is this very feeling that led me to this forum.


No, I'm serious. From what I've seen they don't change. Just giving you an honest opinion


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Whattodo2 said:


> She doesn't see it that way. She never tells me, "no" so she doesn't see it as such. She tells me why she thinks we shouldn't at the time. But yes, after she tells me why she feels we shouldn't she still doesn't want me to. I've brought it up in such a situation and she feels like I am being impatient.


Um...why do you subscribe to this rule set she has created?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Whattodo2 said:


> She doesn't see it that way. She never tells me, "no" so she doesn't see it as such. She tells me why she thinks we shouldn't at the time. But yes, after she tells me why she feels we shouldn't she still doesn't want me to. I've brought it up in such a situation and she feels like I am being impatient.




She of course has the right to say "No". It's her body. She can say "No" without a reason. She doesn't need to give any reason at all. But the fact she gave a reason does not somehow make it not a "No" answer.

Just because she didn't actually use the word "No" while she explained all her reasons why she can't possibly find the time or energy does not change it from the fact it is still "No"


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Whattodo2 said:


> I tried talking about it with her. I'm not sure if I'm not explaining it in a way that she understands or if she just doesn't want to see the point of view I was portraying, but that was the last conversation we had about this. Obviously, it didn't go so well.


She doesn't have to understand it.

Hell, she doesn't have to accept it.

It isn't her body.

Besides, she has the option.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Whattodo2 (Feb 18, 2018)

LeananSidhe said:


> You know your wife better than anyone here (hopefully).
> 
> I can relate to her not wanting you to masturbate. When my husband spends a lot of time masturbating, he sometimes has problems reaching an orgasm from sex. It can take awhile or sometimes not at all. So I do understand what she’s thinking...but it’s also unfair and unrealistic to have you completely abstain without her holding up her end of the bargain.
> Talk to her about it. Let her know that you’ve been staying strong for her but that it’s causing you discomfort at night and ask her if she has any ideas for how you two can fix things. If her answer is “tough it out” then you can and should obviously counter offer. It’s not fair for her to decide this for you. Don’t threaten anything or bring up other women, just let her know that you need something to change whether that’s more sex with her or masturbation (or whatever you decide you want to fight for).
> ...


We aren't shy about our conversations. I have been avoiding them because the last time that we had this conversation it brought her to tears. I wasn't overly an ass in the situation, she feels as though she can't fulfill my sexual needs and it hurts her emotionally. I know that I have to find a solution to this problem and that it is going to come through conversation, I'm really just trying to figure out how to do this best without making her feel like she is not enough. She is my wife. My job is to build her, and our relationship, not tear it down. I feel like this is a conversation that only does the latter anytime I have brought it up, so I am trying to find a better way to communicate the problem with her so that she sees it isn't her. 

Before I completely abstained from masturbation we tried a number of resolutions like mutual masturbation, while I was on the phone with her, or with her in the room. These changes where made to alter the frequency with which I masturbated. In the end, reducing the frequency of my masturbation did not alleviate the underlying issue of how long I was lasting with her. 

I feel like it also created an issue with how she viewed our sexual interactions. I could reach climax while masturbating in less then ten minutes, but when in bed I still couldn't reach climax in under half an hour. Since then she has been strongly against me masturbating at all.



farsidejunky said:


> Um...why do you subscribe to this rule set she has created?


See the above quote.



WilliamM said:


> Did she or did she not agree to have sex whenever you wanted if you agreed to stop masturbating? Has she always done right by that agreement?
> 
> She in fact has been doing contrary to that agreement. That is why you are here. But you choose now to be blind to that fact? She has breeched her part of your agreement. She says "No" quite often. Demand she abide by her agreement, or it is null and void.


This was my opinion going into our last conversation about it and why she felt as if she wasn't enough. She went from upholding her end of the deal to avoiding it through "logic". I called her out on it and we went back and forth over the ordeal until she went to tears. I considered masturbating without her knowledge or approval for a while since she hadn't upheld our agreement, but ultimately decided against it because it is a betrayal. 

I am not blind to her disregard for the agreement. My focus on that area of the conversation is why I feel that she was personally hurt by the conversation. The conversation, in my opinion, was more about her not pleasing me then it was about my problems with the lack of sexual interaction. And this is, once again, why I am so thoroughly mulling over how I want to have this conversation. My goal isn't to harm my relationship or my wife, my goal is to resolve these issues.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I don't get it. It seems like a contradiction. She's disappointed in herself for not fulfilling your needs, but is not actively stepping up to meet those needs? She's instead refusing you frequently? Maybe I didn't read closely enough.

The day my wife turned around was the day I told her that I'd given up on having a sexual relationship with her. I just wanted an explanation of why she wasn't interested in me. She begged for a chance to work on it. I told her not to bother, because, like you, I didn't want her to do anything against her will. She'd made her lack of interest clear. The good news is that she really did take it upon herself to work on it from that day forward. 

I wonder how she'd react if you honestly told her what you're dreaming about.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

I've read about this issue in Savage love. OP, if you have a death grip on your penis while you are masturbating, it really will take a longer time to come in a regular female body. Is this your issue? On average, how long does it take you to come with your wife?

Guys with this problem on Savage love were instructed to abstain from masturbation for a couple of weeks, then begin again with a MUCH lighter grip.

As for your wife, if you are abstaining re: your agreement, she should be putting out.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Whattodo2 said:


> My goal isn't to harm my relationship or my wife, my goal is to resolve these issues.


You will resolve them when you get a backbone and tell your wife, enough is enough.

"Wife, on the day we were married, I swore to fidelity. I did not swear to celibacy. You have the right of enthusiasm or refusal. If you chose refusal, you get no say!"


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ahh,the old manipulation with tears trick.

It works like this.

I know I'm being unreasonable but I will try to get my way with false logic that only works in my head.he will be confused because it will make absolutely no sence. Then if he has the balls to call me on my fake crazy logic I'll just cry to get my way.

Just tell her calmly that if you want to rub one out then your going to rub one out.

Shes not the boss of your body.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Lostinthought61 said:


> What to do...and every man on here.
> 
> I have an excellent reply to your wife and i have been very very clear with my wife when she is is not interested it sex...next time she is dismayed with you wanting to masturbate tell her "are you trying to kill me?" .."i masturbate to stay alive" (drop mic)
> 
> ...


The problem with this approach is she might claim you are trying to kill her via birth control pills which have been linked to increased risk of cervical and breast cancer..... masturbation might become your only option. These studies are broader and more conclusive than the one you justify yourself in beating off regularly.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm a women but in a similar situation. Husband has never told me I can't, but I know he would prefer me not to.

That said I follow the first right of refusal. If I'm horny but husband rejects me I feel no qualms about masturbating. I do not masturbate instead of sex. I masturbate when it is off the table. Honestly you wife has no business telling you, you can't if she won't fulfill your needs. If you were turning her down because you masturbated first that would be a problem, but if she promised to satisfy your urges and then doesn't then I wouldn't feel guilty about it. You can even speak with her and tell her exactly that if it makes you feel better.

If masturbating is causing problems in your relationship though I would encourage you to take a break. And then start again with a much lighter grip. You are desensitizing yourself.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Husband should always help 😊.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Woman here. 

I can understand her concern from the time perspective. I enjoy sex but 1/2 of penetration would become a snooze to me and if frequent would leave me sore.

If your masterbation is causing desensitized tissue. Research seems to point in this direction with it taking a while for it to go back to normal after.

That being said it seems she doesn't want sex. You haven't stated if she orgasms or if you provide her adequate stimulus such as oral or vibration to ensure her orgasm. Yes there are some LD women but there are also a bunch who just aren't getting their O so sex isn't a mutual activity so much as an activity done to pleasure or satisfy the man.

You need to honestly evaluate how often are you masterbating and are you effecting your sensitivity? Then I'd bring this conversation back up not during Sex but over dinner out without the kids. Or in the car. Let her know that you stopped and she is still refusing you. Just let her know you'd prefer to be with her but if she refuses for X days in a row (whatever your max is). You will then masterbate for relief.

You could also try scheduling sex. Some find if they put it on the calendar then it just is. There's no special approach or excuse needed today is just sex day. Go to bed a little early and enjoy.

A therapist might help as well.

I didn't see how old your kids are but under 1 is a hard hard time for new mothers. Many experience very low sex drives. Under 2 still hard but better by 5 should be recovery.


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## Um Excuse Me (Feb 3, 2018)

Maybe she just loves you so much that's she's concerned that you're going to go blind if you keep it up.:scratchhead:


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