# Time for a Change



## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Hello TAM family, I am new to this forum and I have to say, I've been reading through a few threads, and just the information and advice I've picked up along the way has already helped me tremendously. Here's my story.

My STBXW and I got married when she was 19, and I was 21. We had met a year and a half earlier. In late February 2014, we agreed to get divorced, and I moved out a few days later. We have three children, oldest is adopted from when we were Foster Parents a couple years earlier, and the other two are biological. Daughter is 1, Son is 2, and other son is 4. We encountered quite a few difficulties from even before we were married, she suffered from depression and anxiety, as well as having a somewhat connected thyroid issue. She also had a history of cutting herself, and still has the scars to prove it. We fought alot as a result of this, and I started to become controlling. Once we got married, the fights continued, mostly regarding finances. She didn't work that often, and I worked full time. She would find jobs at places where the schedules frequently changed making it so she barely had any hours, and sometimes she would just stay home. Unfortunately this caused (as well as my own issues) caused my controllingness to become more extreme, to try to convince her that we both needed to be working so we could pay our bills.

Later on, when things had settled down, we decided to try to have a baby. We were so excited when we got pregnant, and then unfortunately had a miscarriage. In the next few years, we had four more miscarriages. That in itself obviously just killed us emotionally and physically, and caused so much depression, which in turn, caused us to fight quite a lot, about nothing, about something important, just so much fighting. We then became foster parents, and had a few children come through our home, the first one being our son who we adopted. Then we got pregnant two more times, having our other son and daughter.

Throughout the marriage we had become more and more independent of each other, she wanted to spend almost every weekend with her family (who was very socially awkward, also foster parents, and constantly had kids living in their home who were had suffered from seriously crazy stuff). I wanted to have my weekends, and after a while I had started going back to school, and with that happening, I started staying home a lot while she visited her parents with our kids. This kind of just became our routine. We would still go on dates every now and then, and eventually tried to line up a weekly date schedule, but unfortunately the only sitter we could find was someone who didn't have a car, so one of us had to go pick them up and drop them off after the date, which became quite a hassle. I started realizing after a while that I'd rather just stay home with her and hang out after the kids went to bed, but she always wanted to go out.

Unfortunately I became a bit anti social, and did deal with my own depression for a while, and it seemed that both of us just became stuck in a rut. After our daughter was born, we agreed to a trial separation just to feel things out and figure out what we wanted out of life, and how we wanted to be parents together and still love eachother, etc. I came to find out later she had been mad at me for a long time for agreeing to this (we both amicably brought it up), and that she was just testing me to see if I would “wake up” and figure out that I should’ve been doing everything that she desired (not an exaggeration, a lot of our later fights were that the things she wanted to do with the kids I didn’t want to do with the kids, I just wanted to enjoy my weekends at home and relax with them). I was lazy and again kind of anti social, became a point where I just didn’t want to use my limited time off doing something I really don’t want to do or be around her family who I really didn’t want to be around instead of just relaxing at home with the kids and her. This was not good enough, and it continued to be an issue for a good few more months.

We started having horrible fights come February, which was her birthday month and also obviously had valentines day. I started sleeping on the couch, she told me that nobody was looking out for her and that nobody cared, she actually told me this as we were driving home from an anniversary weekend I planned for us which I thought went really well. I was a bit thrown off.
When we separated, she asked me to reconsider, and I said I couldn’t keep having these fights and feeling terrible, and that the fights just kept getting worse. I feel there was definitely a 50/50 blame for the split, and I am fully willing to accept my part in it. Later on we seemed to be getting along being separated, and we both knew divorce was coming, she insisted on being the one to file, and since I found no reason to argue with that, it was fine with me. She filed roughly two months later. Through the previous weeks we had been extremely open with eachother and had both advised that we were going on a date, which we both made sure the other one was cool with (side note:, we’d both dated before we got married but we were both eachother’s “firsts” if you will), and my date was uneventful, and realized that it just wasn’t a good time to even consider that. She went on a date on the day she filed for divorce, and the next day told me about how horrible the guy was, how he wasn’t even that attractive, how she didn’t even really like him, he didn’t have a car, worked a low paying job, she even had to drive him home. Then she told me she slept with him and that it was also terrible, and proceeded to tell me that absolutely no form of BC was used, and no “action” of BC was used, if that makes sense without getting into details. She also told me it made her miss me both emotionally and physically. Absolutely shut me down to hear this, I couldn’t believe it. So much about it just made me want to puke, and I was hurt, I was angry, I was upset, it was just awful. This made me realize that I wasn’t ready to end the marriage, and I (went against everything that’s recommended on this forum), and essentially begged and pleaded for her to get back together with me, for a week straight, going up and down on a huge rollercoaster because everytime she answered no, that she needed to move on. I would get upset, I would get hurt, I would cry, I would get mad, I asked if she took the pill yet (she had implied she would be since no BC was used), asked her if she’d be getting tested, I was lost inside of myself. It was terrible. I even tried to change and show that I’d changed, and asked if she would try marriage counseling, (in our state you can require marriage counseling prior to a divorce being final), she said ok but couldn’t make any promises that she wouldn’t continue dating through this time frame. 
Over the last few weeks, it’s been very up and down, her parents hired her an attorney because she felt that I was “harassing” her and asking about the kids and their whereabouts, because she had lied to me once already about where they were and continually either kept me in the dark about them or would take hours to respond. Two of three of the kids have special needs which also make them sick very frequently, so my concerns were valid, I was just “bothering” her by asking, and she would just continue to ignore me. They live with her right now and see me at my house 4 days a week, but because she had been less than forthcoming and due to her previous mental past and promiscuity (and poss having some sort of disease from that that could make an unsafe environment for the kids), I responded to the petition requesting they live with me and that she have the same parenting time schedule that I have. The next day was when she hired an attorney, and since then has just been very difficult to get any information out of her. We have a large tax refund that we both need, and she waited about two weeks to discuss it with her attorney as to how to split it up, even though we’d agreed on how to split it up before, this also held up the filing of our taxes, has advised me that she is putting through a temporary order to request child support and spousal support which she knows I can’t afford (all I can afford is child support), she works a few hours a week and doesn’t seem to be really making the attempt to get more hours somewhere else. It’s just been nuts. So here we are, and here I am on this forum, finally putting it all down on paper. I’m sure there’s tons that I missed but these are the things that constantly just stick in my head all day. Some days are good, some days are bad. Today’s a not great day. It’s all in my head and I don’t know how to control it.

Thanks for reading my hugely long post, would love to hear from you all about all of this. I need the insight! 


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

sorry ha, this was kind of a jumbled mess. Hard to get everything down on paper.:scratchhead:


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I think promiscuity and trying to label her as having some disease just because she slept with someone else is going a bit far. 

You two both went on dates and from what I can tell paperwork was already filed to end the marriage, right?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

DawnD said:


> I think promiscuity and trying to label her as having some disease just because she slept with someone else is going a bit far.
> 
> You two both went on dates and from what I can tell paperwork was already filed to end the marriage, right?


We both knew we were going on dates but to know she did it that quickly, told me about it, let him do his thing without protection, it was and is just too much to handle. The promiscuity has been implied by her, basically advising she wouldn't be stopping doing what she's doing. Because she had to pay for the morning after pill she straight up told me she couldn't afford to buy diapers. There's just been a huge mess with it all and honestly sometimes I say things and let my emotions get the better of me. That moment when you realize the person you married is totally gone. 

The disease comment sounds more extreme than I meant. She told me she should probably get tested and I was concerned about her having HIV or something around the kids. Again, I know it sounds extreme, I just went with the information she told me an probably blew it out of proportion a little bit. 

It's crazy hard to find out the woman you love and sadly still do who has only had you as her partner was with someone else especially with those details included. Add that to lying to me about the kids whereabouts, having her attorney run her life and request more from me than she knows I can afford, etc. just been a lot to handle. Sorry to vent. 

I really do appreciate the insight though. One of the things I love about this forum is the brutal honesty. That's what I'm here for. Just want to get over her and move on with my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> That moment when you realize the person you married is totally gone.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trust me, I know that moment all to well myself. Not saying you are not justified with your feelings, but looking out for you long run. I JUST had my mandatory mediation Monday, and it was an interesting situation. I actually came out with everything I wanted because the mediator flat out told my husband that if we went to court I would get more than what I was asking for. Appearances mean more than you think on that level. Just make sure YOU look good. Whatever she does is her own **** now. As long as your children are not in danger (which I can tell you are concerned about, but honestly you will probably never know their day to day schedule unless they are spending time with you during your visitation/custody time).

I always said that I would wait until I was divorced to start dating again. Did not work out that way. Being in the presence of someone who truly enjoys your company will honestly help you more than I could ever say. I am not saying you need to go sleep around, but I do think you need to date more and see women who want to be around you. To remember what it feels like to have women want to talk/flirt/etc with you.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

DawnD said:


> Trust me, I know that moment all to well myself. Not saying you are not justified with your feelings, but looking out for you long run. I JUST had my mandatory mediation Monday, and it was an interesting situation. I actually came out with everything I wanted because the mediator flat out told my husband that if we went to court I would get more than what I was asking for. Appearances mean more than you think on that level. Just make sure YOU look good. Whatever she does is her own **** now. As long as your children are not in danger (which I can tell you are concerned about, but honestly you will probably never know their day to day schedule unless they are spending time with you during your visitation/custody time).
> 
> I always said that I would wait until I was divorced to start dating again. Did not work out that way. Being in the presence of someone who truly enjoys your company will honestly help you more than I could ever say. I am not saying you need to go sleep around, but I do think you need to date more and see women who want to be around you. To remember what it feels like to have women want to talk/flirt/etc with you.


You're absolutely right. It's so hard to not just be bitter and hurt all the time you know? I adore my children but it does suck that four times a week I have to see her and it just brings up every single one of those emotions of anger, hurt, resentment, bitterness, jealousy, etc. how do you deal with that?

Also definitely took me some time to realize how to come to grips with not knowing the kids schedule every day. Being so used to seeing them all the time, it's crazy hard to have to have a schedule now that I get to see them. Any advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> You're absolutely right. It's so hard to not just be bitter and hurt all the time you know? I adore my children but it does suck that four times a week I have to see her and it just brings up every single one of those emotions of anger, hurt, resentment, bitterness, jealousy, etc. how do you deal with that?
> 
> Also definitely took me some time to realize how to come to grips with not knowing the kids schedule every day. Being so used to seeing them all the time, it's crazy hard to have to have a schedule now that I get to see them. Any advice?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had to look at all the positive, no matter how small. I could come home and make whatever I wanted for dinner, no one to argue with me. No one to blame me for everything. No one walking around pissing and moaning about how awful I am. Just me and the kids hanging out and making it fun. How to not be bitter? Step back and realize that she is not the person you married. Do you even recognize her anymore? I sure don't recognize my soon to be ex. Remember things that you loved to do and start doing them.

It does suck having to miss out on parts of the kids lives. I have mine most of the time and I still miss them when they go off with dad. But I have taken the "protective" stance since he left. I do not call or text him when he has them. Big picture? It can look like I am interfering with his time with the kids. I do not ask about his life, because I had to realize that it is none of my business. That lead to me truly just not caring anymore. You will get to that point where you just don't care as long as the kids are good, I promise. But you have to find ME and stop worrying about "WE". there is no more WE.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I am deeply sorry about the miscarriages. Is she seeing a therapist?

Studies have shown most cutters are females. Everything you mentioned

about her falls right in line. What do you want out of this? I may 

have missed it reading but are both of you in IC? This is just me but

each of you should seek IC before MC, if either of you want this


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

DawnD said:


> I had to look at all the positive, no matter how small. I could come home and make whatever I wanted for dinner, no one to argue with me. No one to blame me for everything. No one walking around pissing and moaning about how awful I am. Just me and the kids hanging out and making it fun. How to not be bitter? Step back and realize that she is not the person you married. Do you even recognize her anymore? I sure don't recognize my soon to be ex. Remember things that you loved to do and start doing them.
> 
> It does suck having to miss out on parts of the kids lives. I have mine most of the time and I still miss them when they go off with dad. But I have taken the "protective" stance since he left. I do not call or text him when he has them. Big picture? It can look like I am interfering with his time with the kids. I do not ask about his life, because I had to realize that it is none of my business. That lead to me truly just not caring anymore. You will get to that point where you just don't care as long as the kids are good, I promise. But you have to find ME and stop worrying about "WE". there is no more WE.


This is very good advice, thank you very much. I definitely am trying to work on myself. I have good days and bad days. Oddly enough (although not odd at all), the days where I have no contact with her I always feel so much better, and just more ready to move on. Then I pick up my kids from her and that all gets shot, but it seems to get the tiniest bit better each and every time.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I am deeply sorry about the miscarriages. Is she seeing a therapist?
> 
> Studies have shown most cutters are females. Everything you mentioned
> 
> ...


She goes to IC about once a month I believe, and I've been trying to make an appointment with a therapist that was recommended to me by quite a few people. I'm actually looking forward to seeing the counselor because it'll be nice to have an unbiased third party to talk to and who deals in these matters. I honestly don't think we'll even get to marriage counseling as she wants nothing to do with me, and even though I'm still open to R, I'm 99% sure it won't happen. I know I need to move on with my life, just crazy hard. Which I'm sure you and anybody else who's reading this knows all too well. Some days I feel like I have regrets of things I could have done better, and then I remind myself that she's straight up told me that she knew this was coming too. Think we were both just so unhappy for such a long time, and we assumed divorce wasn't an option, but we got to the point where it just seemed like there was no other option besides divorce. Sucks that it got to this point, but as many of you posters say, chock it up to a learning experience, move on, and find ways to make myself happy, find someone who makes me happy and who I make happy.

Honestly when I first started visiting this page I just wanted to read about what others were going through. Wantwifeback's thread most applied to me I felt like, at least with the being upset but at the same time wanting to be back with her and still loving her, and also seeing that she's not the same person I married. It's all just so confusing. Think what I was looking for on here was just advice and insight, maybe some stories of people who have gone through similar situations. Anything really. Advice as to how to move on, how to deal with stuff we've dealt with in the past, etc.

Thanks for reading and posting!


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> This is very good advice, thank you very much. I definitely am trying to work on myself. I have good days and bad days. Oddly enough (although not odd at all), the days where I have no contact with her I always feel so much better, and just more ready to move on. Then I pick up my kids from her and that all gets shot, but it seems to get the tiniest bit better each and every time.


It wasn't even so much working on myself that helped, it was more remembering who I was. The good and bad will come and go. I am a bit luckier, my children are old enough so when he would come to get them it was just sending them out to meet him. He would text when he was back and they would just come inside. Less face to face time. 

Just keep moving. I started taking my dog to the dog park, and it has a weird calming effect on me. Find something that helps level you out. It is okay to miss the person she was, but I doubt you miss the person she is now.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Yeah for sure. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish the too, even when she's acting completely different than she used to, because I'll see her and just remember who she used to be. I definitely appreciate the advice. Still looking for that "thing" that makes me feel good no matter what kind of mood I'm in. Been trying to make a point to get out of the house as much as possible though, just so I'm not stewing alone. Trying to hang out with friends more, and just relax more. One thing I still have to do is to specifically do stuff for me, I was thinking about making a list of all the things I like to do now and all the things I used to like to do, and compare. Then with that list start working my way down to making sure I actually do those things I used to enjoy if I'm not still doing them. 

One thing that sucks is my best friend is getting married and we're both in the wedding, in a couple weeks. Should be interesting ha.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

it is easy to sense you still have feelings for her. there is a strong

chance she still has for you. both of you closed up communicating 

(where have we heard this before) and built the Wall. I doubt 

either of you care much for having R "right now". Each of you

should work on yourself, understand where you dropped the ball,

work on a better 'self'. Worst case.... you D but come to terms and

maybe co-parent in a healthy way. You may become a better you

and she become a better her and..... who knows?

But focus on you and son.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> it is easy to sense you still have feelings for her. there is a strong
> 
> chance she still has for you. both of you closed up communicating
> 
> ...


Well I definitely have feelings for her still. I mean they're confusing feelings, and there was a point where I thought all hope was lost, so I have to keep remembering that, but I mean we were together for 8 years, and married for almost 7 of them. Definitely going to take some time to get over that. What sucks is from what I see and hear a lot of people will always have feelings for their ex spouse, if that's the case, how do you deal with that? Just keep working on you and eventually it won't matter if you have feelings for the other person, and just accept that it's because you were married to them, but really those feelings don't mean anything?

Especially hard being that she's the mother of my children. Those of you out there going through a divorce without kids are "lucky". Obviously "lucky" isn't the right word, and I am sooooo lucky to have children. But even if you're not married, you will ALWAYS share a special connection to the mother of your children, no matter what.

With that being said though, that is my goal, that we can both move on, and then come back to each other in a platonic manner and be the best co-parents we can be. Still that tiny inkling of hope it will turn into something more, but hoping for that only makes it harder to deal with the situation that's actually right in front of my face.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I will always love the person my X was a long time ago

she was magnificent. But she died many years ago.

What is left, is....... someone I do not know.

It's harder when you have kids, but pain is pain

I have had four great accomplishments in my life and....

every one of them came after a dark period in my life.

It is very sunny here at 9am most mornings

but it's always dark four hours before


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> One thing that sucks is my best friend is getting married and we're both in the wedding, in a couple weeks. Should be interesting ha.


There is one huge thing I want to caution you about here. Weddings can make things look shiny and new. She may not want to attend alone, and may try to latch on to you. I advise against that. You don't need to be rude or mean, but you do need to mingle with the other guests without her. She is going to have to accept that part of splitting up. Don't let her use you as a shield, because that is all it may be. Her not wanting to be alone at the wedding. The next day you would be exactly where you are today. Not fair to you.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I will always love the person my X was a long time ago
> 
> she was magnificent. But she died many years ago.
> 
> ...


Yeah I hear ya. My wife was pretty awesome. Just have to get used to the fact that the girl I fell in love with is no longer around, and truly believe that I can find that again.

Today was actually a really good day. I had my kids for the day and I made sure that they had an awesome day. Came to realize that even though I was kind of a lazy parent when it came to actually taking my kids to fun places before when I was married, now I have the opportunity to be a kick a$$ dad, and I'm certainly going to make the best of it. I'm excited to make some really fun plans for the kids and I and can't wait to see their excited faces.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

sadly, with many jobs taking up so much of people's time

it's hard to fit in the time. I was very lucky to grow up as

one of the last groups to have, stay at home moms. Pop was

on the road a lot and didn't have the time available to do

many things...but he brought home a paycheck. Mom would handle

all the other things and set up fun things when he was there.

Times sure have changed


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

movinonup said:


> We encountered quite a few difficulties from even before we were married, she suffered from depression and anxiety, as well as having a somewhat connected thyroid issue. She also had a *history of cutting herself*, and still has the scars to prove it.


Movin, what diagnosis was given to your W by her IC? Is that IC a psychologist or psychiatrist? Was your W abandoned or abused in early childhood? I ask because cutting and other forms of self harm are strongly associated with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. A 2004 hospital study, for example, concluded that_The majority of those who self-mutilate are women with *borderline personality disorder*. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma._ See Journal Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004.​Indeed, self harm like cutting is so strongly associated with BPD that self harm is one of the nine behaviors used in diagnosing this disorder. In this regard, Dr. Joel Paris states,The core of [BPD] is a striking instability of mood, accompanied by a wide range of impulsive behaviors, *particularly self-cutting *and overdoses, and with intimate relationships that are impulsive, stormy, and chaotic. See Why Psychiatrists are Reluctant to Diagnose BPD.​Importantly, I am not suggesting that your W has the full-blown disorder but, rather, that she might be exhibiting BPD symptoms at an above-normal level. I note that most people having strong BPD traits also suffer from one or two "clinical disorders" such as depression, anxiety, or bipolar. 

I therefore suggest that you take a few minutes to look at my list of red flags at *18 BPD Warning Signs*. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my post in *Maybe's Thread*. If that discussion rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Movin.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Movin, what diagnosis was given to your W by her IC? Is that IC a psychologist or psychiatrist? Was your W abandoned or abused in early childhood? I ask because cutting and other forms of self harm are strongly associated with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. A 2004 hospital study, for example, concluded that_The majority of those who self-mutilate are women with *borderline personality disorder*. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma._ See Journal Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004.​Indeed, self harm like cutting is so strongly associated with BPD that self harm is one of the nine behaviors used in diagnosing this disorder. In this regard, Dr. Joel Paris states,The core of [BPD] is a striking instability of mood, accompanied by a wide range of impulsive behaviors, *particularly self-cutting *and overdoses, and with intimate relationships that are impulsive, stormy, and chaotic. See Why Psychiatrists are Reluctant to Diagnose BPD.​Importantly, I am not suggesting that your W has the full-blown disorder but, rather, that she might be exhibiting BPD symptoms at an above-normal level. I note that most people having strong BPD traits also suffer from one or two "clinical disorders" such as depression, anxiety, or bipolar.
> 
> I therefore suggest that you take a few minutes to look at my list of red flags at *18 BPD Warning Signs*. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my post in *Maybe's Thread*. If that discussion rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Movin.


I definitely hear ya. Looked through this information and I don't think it really applies, honestly think with some good solid counseling she'd be good to go.

On another note, needed all your advice. Paralegal vs. Lawyer? I could prob use a lawyer, but don't have the funds for it. Petition has been filed response has been filed, and now I've been served with a temporary order (which is quite outrageous the things she and her attorney are asking for/accusing me of). I have felt pretty confident thus far with the whole process, could I get away with not hiring an attorney and just using a paralegal to make sure my responses are good?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

DawnD said:


> There is one huge thing I want to caution you about here. Weddings can make things look shiny and new. She may not want to attend alone, and may try to latch on to you. I advise against that. You don't need to be rude or mean, but you do need to mingle with the other guests without her. She is going to have to accept that part of splitting up. Don't let her use you as a shield, because that is all it may be. Her not wanting to be alone at the wedding. The next day you would be exactly where you are today. Not fair to you.


Uptown, I didn't even see this reply, thank you for the advice! Yeah I've been really wondering how this is going to go down, think I'll just keep my distance as much as I possibly can from her, but that will be near impossible since we're both in the wedding party. But I'm certainly going to distance myself and do my best to not even talk to her through the whole thing, hopefully we can just have fun separately.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

movinonup said:


> Uptown, I didn't even see this reply, thank you for the advice! Yeah I've been really wondering how this is going to go down, think I'll just keep my distance as much as I possibly can from her, but that will be near impossible since we're both in the wedding party. But I'm certainly going to distance myself and do my best to not even talk to her through the whole thing, hopefully we can just have fun separately.


she doesn't wish to be your wife anymore

she fired you as a husband

in other words, she is just as important to you as the females

you meet at the wedding that, you have never met before


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> she doesn't wish to be your wife anymore
> 
> she fired you as a husband
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the plan man. I appreciate all the advice! Getting a lawyer this week to help advise not to do anything stupid.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> Uptown, I didn't even see this reply, thank you for the advice! Yeah I've been really wondering how this is going to go down, think I'll just keep my distance as much as I possibly can from her, but that will be near impossible since we're both in the wedding party. But I'm certainly going to distance myself and do my best to not even talk to her through the whole thing, hopefully we can just have fun separately.


You two are no longer in a place where you need to share details about anything other than the kids. If she asks you what you have been up to keep it simple "not too much" or "time with the kids was great". Don't elaborate, and keep your focus on chatting up other people at the wedding. Doesn't have to be women specifically, but it needs to be anyone other than her. Start looking at her as an old acquaintance that you don't really know anymore.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

movinonup said:


> Yeah that's the plan man. I appreciate all the advice! Getting a lawyer this week to help advise not to do anything stupid.


A few tips my lawyer helped me with:

1.) Everything needs to be documented by email or text. Do not call her unless you have texted and specified that you are calling to talk to your children.

2.) Do not engage in any idiocy she may try. whether it is trying to draw you in to a fight or her trying to get information about your new life. Politely say that it is no longer something you can discuss with her and walk away.

3.) Keep detailed expense records. Know what you spend on the kids, bills, yourself, etc, etc.

Those are the top three I can think of right now.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Well it's almost been 3 months since we separated, and each day that goes by gets the littlest bit easier and easier. I finally lawyered up yesterday, her lawyer sent some papers accusing me of some things that were 100% false (one being that I have refused to pay support to her and the kids) which is just bogus, and I was truly hurt by that accusation. My kids are my life and it just blew me away that it happened like this.

With that being said though, For about the last week or so (maybe a little longer) I have been working my a$$ off to go 180. For the most part, it's worked out pretty well. Now I'm not constantly wanting to text her and then constantly checking my phone to see if she's responded yet, then being annoyed that she hasn't responded. Before it was more personal stuff, then it turned to stuff only about the kids, now I've kept it only to emails (short and sweet) about my parenting time (we have the wedding coming up and we've had to work out sitters). 

I also asked the other day that we discontinue any verbal communication at our transitions for the kiddos because I've started to see that she's refusing to put anything in writing when it comes to information about the kids (they have certain special needs which require a lot of therapies, and I’ve now requested multiple times for her to provide that information in email, as well as her previously stating she wanted all contact in email). But now she keeps giving me information in person and I need to have it in writing, partially because I may not remember it all and also because I want her communication to be in writing, something that I can go back to. Another thing is that whenever I speak to her it gets a rise out of me emotionally (doesn’t always come out but always puts me in a bad mood, and I don’t want my parenting time to be riddled with negative thoughts because I see her), and I think sometimes she’s trying to get a rise out of me.

So far so good though, although every single day that goes by I’m still thinking about her all day long, goes from good memories, to bad memories, to memories with the kids and her, to missing the kids, etc. It’s crazy. It’s weird for the thoughts and feelings to still be somewhat the same but somehow it’s affecting my mood less and less every day. It’d be nice to go a day without thinking about her though.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

lawyers are paid well, to lie, cheat, steal. the only difference in the

Mafia and lawyers, lawyers have a license to steal. You may have to

go through your lawyer to set up correspondence about the children's
needs. She is chirpy around you because she misses you. If it still

bothers you to speak with her, you have more growth in your 

future. Do not rugsweep. Force her to grow, if not for you or 

herself, for the kids


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Any advice on me requesting continually to keep all verbal communication to a minimum and have everything corresponding by email? Think that's a good idea? I feel kind of like a jerk about it but I just think it's best. Maybe it's just me.

And believe me, I honestly wish we could keep lawyers out of it. I honestly have the goal of being able to keep them completely out of it and just being able to work together when it comes to our kids, but up until now (who knows maybe she's had a change of heart, but seems a little late for that now), she hasn't wanted to work together when it comes to parenting.

What does the world of TAM think?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

It sucks big time too because any time she's not being a jerk to me I think "hey maybe this could work out" and it's hard to get out of that mind set. Which is another reason why I want everything business-like and in writing so that no emotions can be involved.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

when she does things you do not agree with; address it


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Fair enough. You ever wonder if our exes are just searching online and reading what we write on here?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I hope mine is..... truth hurts sometimes.

Most either stop or delete quite a bit when the other finds out

Why? You want to know how someone really feels... read what they post

on an anonymous board. Each party has a part in destroying

the relationship. It's never 50 / 50 but it's never 100 / 0.

Owning up to your part is vital in moving forward, either after D

or in R. I was poor in communicating, not listening, and being

dismissive. Until the day I die, I will love the person she was.

The person she is now, I do not know. But we all change over 

the years. I raised he!!, drag raced and closed bars at 3AM when 

we met. I don't do that anymore. You try to grow in positive ways

and grow together. Sometimes this does not happen.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Was just wondering about it. When we all talk about doing the 180 and such, where if the ex could look at it and see it's potentially "an act" we're doing when in all reality we still love the shi* out of them. Sure you saw before but one main concern I have is the wedding coming up next week. I'm the best man, and she's a bridesmaid, so we'll have a rehearsal dinner (very tight space) and then the wedding. My parents are going as well and they've already told me they're not going to ignore her, figured she may have a rough time since it's all my friends and she was made a bridesmaid when we were still together. Partially annoying because they're fully aware of what kind of allegations she's brought up against me and what she's done, but I totally get it. They still consider her part of the family, which I really do respect them for.

Unfortunately her family is the exact opposite, and am pretty sure they want nothing to do with me ever again. It's too bad they can't be respectful enough to still see me as the father of their grandchildren (kick a$$ father at that). Oh well I guess, not much I can do right?

Definitely wonder how she's going to be at the wedding though. I'm getting this feeling little by little (and I mean really little) that she's starting to see the changes I've made in myself, all too familiar with what we see on TAM right? One big thing she always had an issue with was that even though I was a good dad, when it came to going out and doing activities outside or out of the house with my kids I was kind of a lazy bum, and now that we're separated, that's just about all I do with them when my parenting time happens, and she knows it too.

Then there's a part of me that thinks the bachelor party is tomorrow night and we're going to go out bar hopping, maybe I'll meet someone. Do I really want to? What if something happens? Will it be worth it? Do I have alterior motives for wanting to do this? So many questions I'm constantly asking myself. Then there's the part of me that sees the littlest parts of the girl I fell in love with coming back to light and thinking maybe something may happen (anything really) between me and her at the wedding. Dazed and confused.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

My new mantra.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdowm to know the difference.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> It sucks big time too because any time she's not being a jerk to me I think "hey maybe this could work out" and it's hard to get out of that mind set. Which is another reason why I want everything business-like and in writing so that no emotions can be involved.


Dude, this happened to me recently after like 9 months of separation, she started contacting me, being nice, being flirty. It put my head in a spin.

Want to know a trick to make it business-like in these kind of situations?

*Make it* business-like.

You set the frame for your interactions. Discuss only business. If she side tracks, if she starts making general chit chat, disregard it, don't even respond; be it via text, email or verbally. If she doesn't take the hint, force it back to business. For example, say you're discussing plans for the kids. She changes the subject saying:

"Oh, by the way MOU (movinonup) I saw _blahblah_ at the _blahblah_ the other day, she said _blahblahblahblahblah_"

You reply:

"So, I'll take the kids on W, X, Y and Z then."

If you don't allow her to engage in conversation, then she can't engage. She can talk AT you until she's blue in the face, but it doesn't become a conversation until you respond in kind.

As much as it sucks to hear this, but your emotions are only involved because you let them be.

To begin with, in the early stages I feared my future without my wife more than anything. A famous psychologist, who's name eludes me right now, once wrote a paper explaining how all emotions stem from fear or love.

The fear made me act crazy, once I embraced my life without her, made it my own, became my own man, standing on my own two feet without her, the fear was gone. My confidence started to improve too. Also, other women find this kind of man rather attractive .

The love made me act pretty crazy too, and that fades with time. I used to think that you couldn't control love, it just happened and you had to go with it, and whilst that is partially true, you can control when you show it, and who you show it to. Emotional detachment does take time, but you can accelerate it, and that's where the 180 comes in to play.

Key thing to remember is to focus on _you_. You can control every single ounce of your mind, body, and soul, with the right knowledge. The caveat of it is, that's the *only* thing you can control in this world.

Do you have any goals or aspirations, or things you'd like to do in life that you've been procrastinating over?

If so, think about them, make yourself a roadmap of how to get from point A, to your goals, break them down in to smaller goals that all contribute, and take at least one measure every day towards achieving those goals. It feels good, it breeds confidence, it's rewarding and it helps you to see how good life can be without her.

I seem to have rambled on a bit, apologies for the long reply, hope it makes some sort of sense .


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

WWB - No rambling at all. This is excellent, excellent advice. It's funny because I read your thread in a matter of a week or two, when in reality it was actually a long period of time, so it's weird to see how insightful you are when I feel like it wasn't that long ago that you were right where I am now. Still stuck on that emotional roller coaster. The dips and turns and loops seem less extreme as time goes on, but then those random moments of (man I wish this could still work out) and then I'm stuck hanging off the side of the roller coaster not knowing which way to fall.

My STBX didn't actually cheat on me, she just hooked up with another dude after papers were filed, and for all I know has done it again. We were just unhappy, but there were so many happy moments and we have three amazing children together. Just hard to believe we'll never have that family back together. How do I get to a point where I move on completely and quit hoping for something that probably won't happen?

For the most part I'm usually there, going out for a bachelor party tomorrow night so I'm excited to get out of the house and who knows, maybe meet a couple girls. I know I need to move on. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

In regards to finding something for myself, I used to love playing the drums, have played for 16 years actually, but unfortunately live in a small apt now and sold my drumset a while back, so not really anywhere to play. Although...my buddy has told me I could always swing by his church where there's a drumset and bash the skins over there. Maybe I'll do that. I also enjoy (well sort of enjoy ha) getting tattoos, maybe I'll just have to go do that. 

Did you have trouble finding yourself when all of you was defined by your marriage? Didn't of course realize this was the case while I was in it, but more than likely it was a co-dependent thing. I just can't seem to find what makes me happy, spend my time either hanging out with my friends, family, or sitting at home watching tv and having a drink. I'm hoping to start playing volleyball with some friends on a weekly basis starting in two weeks though, so definitely looking forward to that.

I also really wanted to start a business that I had very specific interest in, kind of a unique idea, but my then wife had kind of shot it down and not been supportive of it at all. Only way she said I could spend money on it was if I let her spend money on herself. It's a non-profit idea, but still working out the kinks. So yeah, I guess there are some things I can do for myself, and get out of the mindset that she's not in my life, she's not a part of my life except for in a business sense, and every decision I make and everything I do should not involve thoughts about her or what she would think ya know.

Wow. Just typed a lot ha. This all make sense?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> WWB - No rambling at all. This is excellent, excellent advice. It's funny because I read your thread in a matter of a week or two, when in reality it was actually a long period of time, so it's weird to see how insightful you are when I feel like it wasn't that long ago that you were right where I am now. Still stuck on that emotional roller coaster. The dips and turns and loops seem less extreme as time goes on, but then those random moments of (man I wish this could still work out) and then I'm stuck hanging off the side of the roller coaster not knowing which way to fall.
> 
> My STBX didn't actually cheat on me, she just hooked up with another dude after papers were filed, and for all I know has done it again. We were just unhappy, but there were so many happy moments and we have three amazing children together. Just hard to believe we'll never have that family back together. How do I get to a point where I move on completely and quit hoping for something that probably won't happen?
> 
> ...


Hehe, yeah I started my thread two weeks after she left, once I could stop crying and having anxiety attacks for long enough to function. Some days it seems like a lifetime ago, like maybe it happened to someone else. I guess metaphorically it did . 

Ah, the roller coaster, it's not the fun kind either. It does even out over time and the 180 really does help. It's difficult for me to advise regarding emotional detachment, because there were no kids involved in my M, so I had absolutely zero reason for contact with STBXW.

If you're anything like me, it still feels like a betrayal so soon after you guys split. Mine told me she'd slept with her "new man" less than a month after she left. I felt as though I had been cheated on.

(I actually learned a few days ago that my STBXW cheated on me a couple of years before we got married. She confided in a friend, who is no longer a friend, who I happened to bump in to. She asked how STBXW was, my response was along the lines of "the f**k should I know?". I ended up giving her the short version of the story, and she spilled on STBXW. Oddly, there was very little emotional response from me, perhaps a little satisfaction as I had my suspicions.) 

Getting to that point takes time and work. Reading your thread it's quite clear that you idolised your STBXW, perhaps had her up on a pedestal. Like you I met mine young, and I did the same thing. I think it's time to knock that pedestal out from under her, and build a new one to stand yourself on. This comes back to the focusing on you, putting yourself first.

Question: Does putting yourself first make you feel guilty or like you're a bad person? I'd be interested to see your answer.

Going out is very good, when I started going out, it opened my eyes to all of the other beautiful women in the world, it took me a little while before I was ready to take things beyond a dance or a flirt or a kiss, you can't rush that, it'll happen when you're ready, do it too soon and you'll feel like sh*t. But getting out there, meeting women, talking to women, it all helps your self-esteem. Higher self-esteem --> Happier MOU --> More inclined to socialise --> Meets more women --> More self-esteem --> Happier MOU. It's a positive feedback loop for making you happier, and is true of just about anything you do for yourself, whether it be meeting women or working towards something. That's why everyone here advocates focusing on yourself.

Drums are good, it'd probably be really therapeutic for you to drop by and play. I found my guitar extremely therapeutic. I also enjoy getting tattoos and have had a few new additions since the separation, as well as piercings haha. Which leads me on to your question:

*Did you have trouble finding yourself when all of you was defined by your marriage?*

I definitely did. I'd completely lost myself. I'd spent 6 years putting my everything in to building a life with my wife, I'd lost friends, family, hobbies, and most of my own personality as a result (I don't blame her for those things, they were all on me for allowing it). Focusing on you (again) will help you rediscover who you are, listen to your gut, it'll tell you what you want and will rarely mislead you. Also, indulging in things you used to before you met your STBXW will help you, which is why I think the drums will be really good for you.

As far as the business goes, it can't hurt to explore it, come up with plans and business models and such, then if it's viable, why not go for it? It would be a good "focusing on MOU" exercise .


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Question: Does putting yourself first make you feel guilty or like you're a bad person? I'd be interested to see your answer.

I wouldn't say it necessarily makes me feel guilty, maybe a little bit I guess. I'm just not used to it you know? Kind of just been going through the motions, been living alone for almost three months and have NEVER lived alone, only with roommates and then parents before the marriage. So I just come home, do my thing, and that's that. Days go by like nothing is happening. I know I NEED to see a change in myself and really put myself first. It is hard with kids because if you are selfish about certain things you feel like the kids are suffering, even if it's irrational.

Did you have trouble finding yourself when all of you was defined by your marriage?

It's funny because I never felt like my life was defined by my marriage, until we separated and I didn't know what to do with myself. I guess I did have her on a pedalstal, even though it seems like a good portion of our marriage I was upset at her ha. Funny how that works eh?

Still working on finding MOU. Still working on the confidence. In regards to the sleeping with the other dude after we separated, I was hurt and still am by it. Definitely much better than I used to be, I cried, I was hurt, I couldn't eat, it was just awful. She and I were each other's firsts, so it was definitely a big deal for her to just haphazardly jump in bed with another douch*, let alone a guy who she specifically said before she admitted to banging him all these traits about him that she didn't like, in addition to saying he wasn't good in bed, nor was he uh...well endowed ha, then saying it made her miss me. What the crap do I do with that information ha..

Like I said though, feeling better about it now, working on forgiving her (even though sometimes I think okay there's nothing to forgive her for), but just trying to help myself move on. I DID feel cheated on. It's funny, because up until that I was really starting to feel good about myself, feeling happy, somebody even told me they noticed (before they knew about the separation) that before I always seemed kind of depressed and then now (at that time) I seemed much happier, and then they found out we had separated. 

Course once I found about starbucks (works there, I'm going to use that as his nickname), that all fell to crap. Makes me wonder if I thought I was okay and then realizing I was not ready to give up on the marriage. Think that's really what it was. Today I definitely was reminded again (earlier in the day I felt the opposite) how and why she is not the person I want to be with (being a huge four letter word and not wanting to compromise at all when it comes to my requests regarding parenting time with our kids). I'm hoping us both having lawyers can kind of remove me from the equation somewhat, and that some unbiased third parties can start making decisions, even though I think her lawyer is a hardcore skeez ball.

This weekend should be fun though, and I am going to try my absolute best not to think about her. I told her I'd be unavailable for most of the weekend but she can call or text if there's any emergency with the kids (which who knows if she even will). Getting stuff done tonight but then all day tomorrow I'll be putting on a bachelor party for my best friend and then staying at a hotel after some bar hopping tomorrow night. Hoping to meet some chicks but not gettin my hopes up. Sure would be nice to just talk to somebody though and really feel good about myself though ya know? Because I'm kind of tired of feeling like shi* every time I have to talk to stbx.

Gotta go play those drums soon, and get some tattoos. Already have a cool idea for a forearm tattoo that would be for my kids. Can't wait to get the money so I can get it done.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

I may have said this already, but I have to say, it's pretty cool how much better of a dad I've become because of all of this. The kids LOVVEEE coming over to my place and we have so much fun together. Before I was kind of a lazy dad when it came to taking the kids out to do stuff and just wanting to play with them at home, but now I'm super Dad, taking three kids under 4 years old out to places by myself. Still waiting to meet another hot single mom hehe.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> I may have said this already, but I have to say, it's pretty cool how much better of a dad I've become because of all of this. The kids LOVVEEE coming over to my place and we have so much fun together. Before I was kind of a lazy dad when it came to taking the kids out to do stuff and just wanting to play with them at home, but now I'm super Dad, taking three kids under 4 years old out to places by myself. Still waiting to meet another hot single mom hehe.


All negatives in life have a proportionate amount of positives, and vice versa - always try to see the positives .


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> Question: Does putting yourself first make you feel guilty or like you're a bad person? I'd be interested to see your answer.
> 
> I wouldn't say it necessarily makes me feel guilty, maybe a little bit I guess. I'm just not used to it you know? Kind of just been going through the motions, been living alone for almost three months and have NEVER lived alone, only with roommates and then parents before the marriage. So I just come home, do my thing, and that's that. Days go by like nothing is happening. I know I NEED to see a change in myself and really put myself first. It is hard with kids because if you are selfish about certain things you feel like the kids are suffering, even if it's irrational.
> 
> ...


The reason I asked was, for so long I felt guilty for putting myself first, like I should always put her first, then I learned the balance of a healthy amount of selfishness (enough to do what's right for you, without being an a$$hat).

All the confidence, and finding yourself does take time. IC will help with that, I read that you're looking in to it I think? Good move. A good IC will help you transition from your old life to your new one, and will help you remember who you are.

Starbucks is a good nickname. Isn't it strange how we Nickname our spouses "infidelity" partners so as not to use their actual name, like they don't deserve a name. In my case he has two names, one is Specsavers (because he looks like the kind of guy that would work at Specsavers selling glasses to people who don't need them). The other is Briefcase (He looks like the character "Briefcase" from the UK Inbetweeners - it's a startling resemblance) - Clearly Starbucks was a downgrade for her. She has told you as much, and you probably always knew it anyway. Take comfort and confidence from that, and let her see exactly what she's thrown away.

As I mentioned in this thread and my own, my STBXW started contacting me a little while back. She told me that "Of all the men I've been with since we separated, you're still the best in bed, none compare." A few months ago I'd have looked at that and thought "_all the men?_ sh*t, that hurts". But I looked at it and I was like "Ha! Screw you chumps, and screw you STBXW for throwing it all away, i'll make some other lady very happy now, because you don't deserve me". It's amazing what a bit of confidence and self-respect can do for you . You'll get to the point where you no longer care what she gets up to or who with, because you'll know that:

A.) It won't be as good as it was with you
B.) That she doesn't deserve you, she's made her bed, she has to lie in it.

I hope you have fun this weekend buddy, you need to blow off some steam, have a few drinks, admire some beautiful women, maybe if you're feeling it, talk to a few, see what happens . There's always the possibility that there is someone out there for you who would be even more amazing than your STBXW to you - anything is possible, and you're now free to explore those possibilities.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

movinonup if you read the stories of the people who post on your 

blog, like WWB, you can see the before and after of their growth.

With kids, ReGroup, Zillard, and GutPunch are good ones.

I didn't have kids with WC and I forced her hand. Very little drama.

If you want a good laugh, read Bullwinkles


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> Dude, this happened to me recently after like 9 months of separation, she started contacting me, being nice, being flirty. It put my head in a spin.
> 
> Want to know a trick to make it business-like in these kind of situations?
> 
> ...


Another TAM graduate. The student becomes the teacher. Great advice.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

helolover said:


> Another TAM graduate. The student becomes the teacher. Great advice.


Hehe, just passing on what people advised me to do, because I know it works .

Actually kind of grateful that I learned these lessons comparatively young!


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

You guys give such great advice. I have read through WWB's thread and it is very inspiring, definitely a lot of things I have in common with his story. Def a part of me that wonders if she was unfaithful before hand while we were still together, but I am certain that thinking about that and worrying about it is completely a waste of time. 

Had a good day yesterday, had pretty much an all day bachelor party for my best friend, had a ton of drinks, hung out at a hotel and saw some great looking ladies at the pool, it was nice. Didn't really talk to any of them but it was definitely kind of a wake up call to see what else is out there.

I've been thinking about adding something else to my "new MOU" life and doing some volunteering or something. Any suggestions? Definitely would be cool to meet some other people (ladies included of course), but I think it would just be a cool experience. Still working on making a new MOU and trying to figure out who the crap that guy is. 

By the way WWB, loved the a$$hat comment. I lol'd. You guys rock.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> You guys give such great advice. I have read through WWB's thread and it is very inspiring, definitely a lot of things I have in common with his story. Def a part of me that wonders if she was unfaithful before hand while we were still together, but I am certain that thinking about that and worrying about it is completely a waste of time.
> 
> Had a good day yesterday, had pretty much an all day bachelor party for my best friend, had a ton of drinks, hung out at a hotel and saw some great looking ladies at the pool, it was nice. Didn't really talk to any of them but it was definitely kind of a wake up call to see what else is out there.
> 
> ...


There are a lot of inspiring threads here. Some people come her, take the advice and live it, and walk away a better man/woman for it. Take ReGroup's thread, angstire's thread, Honorbound's thread - all great threads.

Yep, it is a waste of time to think about it, nothing really changes even if she was.

Glad you had a good time at the bachelor party dude  and don't sweat the talking to chicks thing, it will come in time. There are some really stunning women out there, and as you emotionally detach more and more, you'll notice them, and want them, more and more .

Volunteer work could be a good way to meet new people . I met new people via my gym membership, and now I've set myself a goal of completing the Spartan Race for charity next year - which again will afford me to meet new people (and lost of physically fit women, I might add ). I'd say if you feel it would be a rewarding experience, or it will help you feel more confident, then I'd go for it ASAP .

I try to keep a sense of humour, even in the sh*ttiest situations, I find it helps .


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Yeah dude I totally hear ya. Waste of time. Made the stupid mistake this morning of looking to see if she changed her Facebook picture (she unfriended me a while back) and she did, and she looked great. Why did I do that you ask? No idea why. Well I do know why, but yeah. Ugh, shouldn't have looked. 

Have the day off from work today, I know I need to get out of the house, just not sure what to do with myself.

I did work out this morning and I feel great. Little sore but man, if I can keep this up I really will be happy with how I look. 

Tomorrow's actually my birthday, and as of right now I have absolutely no plans until I get my kids for three hours tomorrow night. Need to figure out something to do to keep myself busy.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

movinonup said:


> Yeah dude I totally hear ya. Waste of time. Made the stupid mistake this morning of looking to see if she changed her Facebook picture (she unfriended me a while back) and she did, and she looked great. Why did I do that you ask? No idea why. Well I do know why, but yeah. Ugh, shouldn't have looked.
> 
> Have the day off from work today, I know I need to get out of the house, just not sure what to do with myself.
> 
> ...


I know why you did that too, it's the same reason I did it, the same reason many others here probably did it. Oddly the reason you do it is the very reason that you shouldn't.

Yeah I'm off work today too, hit the gym this morning and have been lazing about the house since  

Working out makes me feel awesome too, I don't know how I ever lived without a gym membership!

Tomorrow being you birthday you should keep as busy as possible, any friends or family you could visit?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

WantWifeBack said:


> I know why you did that too, it's the same reason I did it, the same reason many others here probably did it. Oddly the reason you do it is the very reason that you shouldn't.
> 
> Yeah I'm off work today too, hit the gym this morning and have been lazing about the house since
> 
> ...


Well I worked out again but other than that, not too eventful of a birthday ha. Did however see my kids and my parents, but it was pretty low key. Had the day off after that as well and was going to go out last night with someone, but then my stbx started getting on the verge of harassing me about something and I was just not in the mood to go out, plus this chick's really cool and I've known her for a while, and I didn't honestly even know if it was a date or not, and I just didn't want to go out and try to have fun when I was just super annoyed about how bit**y my x was being.

Woke up feeling better today though. Been up and down, but feeling pretty good. One day at a time, one day at a time.

My stbxw has advised me that she is now going back to school (not sure how she's paying for it and not sure how she's going to manage doing that with the kids and her random hours that she takes and stuff, but whatever I guess ha). We have the wedding this weekend and I had told her weeks in advance that I wouldn't be able to see the kids, and asked her to find a sitter since my whole family will be going to the wedding festivities and hers won't, sent her I think about 5 requests over a two week timeframe, each one of them pretty much ignored. Last night she tells me that I will have the kids because she has too much work to do (school work, just started back in school this week). Didn't ask, just told me. Told her that I couldn't, and had already told her way ahead of time since I'm involved in the wedding and will be helping with setup and last minute stuff and what not, and she just kept laying it on me that it was my responsibility since typically I would have the kids during this timeframe. I felt no guilt, and it felt good. If she had told me weeks ago when I kept bringing it up to her and didn't ignore me, then I would've tried to figure something else out. 

But, she is trying to figure out herself (and I'm 99% sure the kids are being ignored a ton because she's so concerned with doing her own thing), and she chose to go back to school, didn't even tell me until after she'd already started. That's on her ya know?

So today I let her know that if she's too busy with her own stuff and doesn't have time for the kids, then they're more than welcome to live with me. Sounds like a possible jab, but it's total honesty. I'd love for them to live with me.

Ahh life. What a fickle fig.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Started reading Regroups thread as recommended to me. So far so good, definitely amazing how many things you can relate to with everybody on here, everybody has a different story but somehow they're almost all identical. Wife needs to find herself, finds herself in someone elses arms, guy is depressed, sad, lonely, doesn't know what to do with himself, was a nice guy, etc.

Hoping and praying whenever it is that I feel I'm ready for a relationship again I will do a good job of finding the line between being a nice guy and being a jerk haha.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think everybody gets something from Groups thread

I learned a great deal about co-parenting and I have no kids


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

UPDATE:

Well we had the rehearsal and rehearsal dinner last night which my stbxw was a part of too since she's a bridesmaid and I'm the best man, super weird. I put on a happy face, totally put on the impression that I was having a good time, which a lot of it I was, but man it was hard just listening to all the stuff being said in speeches and in the rehearsal (marriage is forever, you have to work together, love, etc.). Very difficult. Plus my stbxw had said the night before she would be civil but she said some things in front of everybody else (everybody knows what's going on between us) that were just rude and kind of bitc*y, which is unfortunate. I kept my cool though, didn't say anything negative, was the better person, etc. Who knows how today (the wedding) is going to go, I really hope to have fun and just not worry about it but it's going to be interesting.

She really didn't speak that much to anybody yesterday and I think she's finally starting to feel that distance and separation from my family and friends (who used to be her family and friends). Part of me was (selfishly) glad that this was happening, but it didn't make it any easier. I just wish we could get a long, I hope tonight's a good time, and there's definitely a huge part of me that can't wait for it to be over so we can just go back to our normal schedule of not talking to each other and trying to live our own lives.

Also had a dream last night that she got pregnant (not by me) and that she had an STD, that was fun. Yikes. Put on a happy face, 180, be the bigger person, have faith that time will heal all wounds.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Whoa man. What a crazy couple days. Rehearsal, rehearsal dinner, wedding, reception, it was nuts. Let's hope this is the last time I have to go to a wedding with my ex (or rather be there with her), because it was an emotional ride that's for sure.

We actually got to talk a little bit yesterday, and she expressed that she was trying really hard to keep it together during the ceremony (as we listen to all these things about how important weddings are, vows are forever, love is forever, etc.). Kinda crazy. I was thinking, wow this may open a door up for us to talk, but she ended up just saying how she was sad and it was hard being at a wedding, but then she thought of everything that happened and didn't want to get her heart broken again. We talked a little more and she said she's worried about whether or not I'll be nice on any given day, as some days I'm nice and other days I'm calling her ****ty or a shi**y mom. These were things that were unfortunately said in reaction to actions she took and ignoring my requests about the kids about a month ago, clearly she's still holding grudges. She has also called me a ******y dad and said and done many other things, but that seems to have slipped her mind. I know it was tough for her, the wedding was all of my friends and family and she was definitely kind of an outcast. I know she's still hurting. I told her (this was all very civil conversation) that we've both said and done things, and that when I've said things I have reacted to situations that have occurred, and she disagreed. Started to get a little tense once that was said and then I just nicely asked one last question, asking if she feels it's all been very one-sided (on my side), and she very much said that's how she felt. In otherwords, she's done absolutely nothing wrong, and essentially blames me for "breaking her heart" and that everything that has happened has been on me. Crazy stuff. Quite a tall tale, and then she said we shouldn't talk anymore and we walked away from each other.

I was pretty bummed out for a little bit, of course being that it was a wedding and thinking that maybe, just maybe she would hear the things that were being said about how important the convenant of marriage is but no go. She is hurt, she is in this world of hers where she has done nothing wrong and how could she be with somebody like me who has done all these terrible things. Crazy how that works out. 

I definitely wish we could still be together, mostly for my kids, just so they could have a little more of a normal life, but I definitely don't know how I could be with someone who is so caught up in their own "poor little me" world. I will fully admit that I have said things that were not good, and I have fully owned up to them and apologized for them. I have never heard any apologies from her, nor have I seen any sort of feelings of apology from her or heard her apologize at all. It really is too bad. I pray for her almost everyday, just in general, and I also pray for peace to accept the things I cannot change, and to just let it go, and let the big guy upstairs take control. Obviously easier said than done, but I still have to try. 

All I can say is, glad that there's no more weddings, no more social events we both have to be a part of together, and that life will just go back to normal, or whatever the hel* normal is ha. Normal transition schedule for kids, normal small talk during transitions (which will mostly be faked), no contact besides that, go through our lawyers for other stuff, etc. Sad that it got to this point, and very sucky that this will probably go on for a loonng time, but am beginning to accept it.

This was a jumbled post, sorry guys. Thanks for reading though. Always helps to put my words down on "paper", especially in this forum, everybody always has such good things to say.

I ALMOST sent her an email this morning, wasn't sure what I was going to say, but something along the lines with I hope you can be happy and hope you can find the good in people, planned on re-reading it multiple times to make it sound not sarcastic or mean or anything negative, and then I realized no contact will probably just be better. Hope and pray with time if nothing else we can just co-parent together and be able to communicate in an appropriate manner (and that she can not keep stuff from me about the kids), but only time will tell. I know for a fact that since she openly blames me for everything and the way she acts towards me, she definitely seems to just straight up despise me. IT sucks to know someone (anyone really) out there feels this negative about you, but what can ya do right? I know for a fact that if there weren't legal ramifications for her not letting me see the kids she wouldn't let me see them at all, even though I am an AMAZING dad. I have no problem saying that, and am fully confident in my abilities as a parent. Those kids freakin love me and I adore them. Now she's started school (not sure how she's paying for it, and with her already being so busy trying to find a job and stuff, she's fully admitted to school making her super busy), now I think she just sees it as a necessity so she can have time to do school work. Again, I don't think she wants me to see them but hey at least there's other reasons that I get to see them right? The school thing kind of bugs me, because I truly believe with how busy she's making it sound I don't know how she has any time for the kids, seems as though she's probably spending all her time on her computer doing school work at home where the kids just have to play by themselves and not have much interaction with her, just so she can "find her way" and learn to live on her own. Hope that one day she can get past the "finding her way" and just be a mom and be herself at the same time. Really wish the kids lived with me but know that's never going to happen. 

Wow. Long post. Sorry. Thanks again to all who read it. Any sage advice from my TAM family? Any constructive criticism, or comments are welcome. Thanks to all.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Another update too, it was REALLY cool last night too because I was able to reconnect with a ton of old friends that I used to go to church with. I grew up in a church and went there until a couple years ago, and have a lot of old friends from there, and to be honest I was kind of avoiding seeing any of them to avoid all the questions.

What was cool though was I had about a million people come up to me yesterday and genuinely ask how I was doing, people I hadn't talked to in years. It's crazy how people can still show concern and care about you after so many years of not seeing or talking to each other. Think I'll actually go to their service this morning, felt loved, felt cared for, felt taken care of. Family and friends are everything in this world, and how stupid can we be if we're avoiding them too through this whole mess? 

Also last thing I wanted to say (I think ha) is that what's really cool is the whole her sleeping with another dude thing, I'm actually mostly over it. Sometimes I'll get upset about it but I honestly don't really care about it anymore. Now it's just how we treat eachother and how we co-parent, or at least how I wish to co-parent and hope for reciprocity. So that's definitely awesome, because for a long time I was just completely and hardcore broken up about it.

Time will heal right?


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Okay one more post haha. I actually wanted to also say that even though the rehearsal stuff and the ceremony were mostly faked on my part regarding how "happy" I was and showing confidence and what not, I actually really did have a great time at the wedding, hung out with a bunch of girls, (nothing crazy just talking a bunch and catching up with old friends), even flirted a bunch with one of the waitresses. It was harmless, but it felt good. She flirted back a little bit and it felt good. Definitely provided that I had confidence and was happy even with all the crazy stuff going on, partly was hoping that she would see it but for the most part I knew there was no reason to worry about where she was, if she saw me, if she culd see anything with how I was acting, etc. But that's just a bit of a waste of time, I need to do these things for me, and for the most part of the reception last night that's exactly what I was doing, and it's prob the best I've felt in a long time.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

she is showing her true colors

bet the farm other women at the rehearsal picked up on it

very often in cases as this, the one with the garbage coming out of

mouth, also puts foot in. Silence, observe, grow, go forward


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

Silence, observe, grow, go forward

New mantra.


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

So I feel like I woke up this morning really seeing clearly. Pretty much can attribute anything that she has done or said that I have had an issue with to her being hurt. There have been things that she's done/said that have certainly made it hard, but she is hurt. By me. I left, I wasn't a good husband. And I need to fully own up to that, and don't think I have yet until now. That's what it all comes down to. Only took me a few months to realize. Could be too little too late. But I'm deciding to keep the door open. I won't actively pursue, I won't be cold, I won't argue, or get upset. I will be pleasant and happy around her, engage her during transitions and leave it at that. At the same time I'm gonna work on myself, get in shape, try to finally quit smoking, finally start counseling, and just give it tons of time. Also not gonna pursue other people. I have faith that if it's meant to be, then it will happen in due time. I just need to be patient (which I suck at). Realizing I've said a lot of horrible things and all I can do is apologize in a prompt manner and let her take it however she needs to. Through this weekend with the wedding and everything and talking to a close friend who is going through divorce, I was really made aware that she was feeling stuff and feeling hurt at the same time. And her defenses are up like nobody's business. And it totally makes sense. I hurt her. I hope and pray things can work out in the long run, and if they don't then I will trust that it's how it was supposed to be. But I have not given up. And if it doesn't work out, I'll still be better off for working on myself anyways.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

you better yourself, you can't control whether she will herself or not

just be sure to "cover your end"

maybe fate does not want the two of you together, "right now"

but you can't wait; or you will be in the same spot you were in 

when all this started


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## movinonup (May 6, 2014)

So I kind of came to realize that I've been a complete jerk to her for a while now. I know that no one party is at fault, and I'm not naiive to the fact that we had our issues, but I can openly admit that I have definitely made matters worse, especially over the last month. I was hurting so bad and I took it all out on her. I've had my own emotional issues in the past (and obviously the more recent past) and I had for a long time depended on her for my own happiness. We even had fights about it in our marriage. I also had a lot of unhealthy habits, smoking, drinking, overeating, etc. I just didn't take good care of myself. I mean honestly, why would she be happy who just didn't care?

I'm fully aware of how hard this will be, and I know that I need to make sure even if things don't work out that I still am able to continue the path to bettering myself, for my own future and for my kids future.

Yesterday was probably the best day we've had in a longgg time. I was truly happy, I wasn't faking it, I didn't overdo it, and she seemed very happy too. We actually talked, texted a little bit, it was really nice.

I am definitely thinking about moving this thread to the reconciliation section. Again, I'm not being naiive, I know what a difficult path this will be, and know that it could completely end up with us still being split and never getting back together. However, I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and I believe in us. I have to have hope, and I can't give up.


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