# Worse this time around....



## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

Well...I've never written anything in a forum....but here it goes.

I'm 47, wife 42. We've been married now for 22 years, have 2 kiddos....son 18 and daughter 15. 

I had an off-on again 3 year affair that ended about 3 years ago. It was with my last girlfriend I had before I met my wife. I told myself that I had been lonely and starving for sexual intimacy for a long time and contacted her. (my wife and I would sometimes go 10-12 weeks with no sexual intimacy) It took several months, but it led to the one thing that I hate to admit, but was always in the back of my mind during our short visits, emails, phone calls, and texts. 

My AP's husband found us out....so she was busted. I told my wife later that day (only some of it) because I figured that the offended husband would contact my wife. That never happened....and after several months, we made contact again. She sent an email proposing that we celebrate 3 years by meeting yet again (this would have been the 5th time to be intimate). My wife found this email and it she was hurt terribly again. 

This time, she left the house for the weekend (with the kids) so she could think. While all alone in the house, I started realizing what all I stood to lose....and WHAT THE HECK HAD I BEEN DOING?! I ended the affair the next day (little did I know that she contacted my AP's husband and learned of things that I had not told her.

This time, I totally (to this day) gave up my AP. Time goes on and things seem ok. I got back into church.....concentrated on work....and obviously did not spend enough time with my wife.

Nearly 2 months ago, I discovered that my wife had been having a 6 month affair. When I found out (I had suspected it for weeks, but just would not allow myself to believe it)....I was calm and gathered enough evidence to prove it to her. I had phone records and even followed her a few times on her lunch break. 

I confronted her...and my plans were to leave her alone at the house so she could think about what she wants to do. To my dismay, however, her mindset was such that I was afraid to leave....I was afraid that if I left, she might not be there when I returned! I told her that night that I forgave her and I took the blame for it, because of my affair. I just wanted things to be right and to heal our marriage.

We have now been in counseling for 6 or so weeks. She only opens up to me a little....and told me last night that she is still fighting to let go of her AP and hopes to fall in love with me again...but she just isn't sure. I am amazed at how far she pulled away from me and just how connected she is with her AP. She sometimes describes our marriage (pre her affair) in ways that just seem foreign to me....like someone else's marriage. Is she creating problems that weren't there to justify her feelings?? 

I am totally beside myself! We have only been intimate one time in the last 6 weeks. I gave her a card that night, brought home flowers....and something good clicked...if only for one night. She doesn't call me much any more...she hardly texts me any more......she hasn't opened her heart to me yet to say how sorry she is for hurting me and that she wants things to work out. I feel such a distance. I can't help but think about contacting an attorney almost daily. How long should I give her to come out of this fog?? How do I know that she even will break free of it? When I was discovered, the second and final time, I know she was crushed. I gave her complete control and supported and loved her....and apologized to her daily for weeks and months. Did she just never heal completely??

We are currently living an in-house separation. We have told the kids that we are working through some things. They seem to be ok, for now. 

Any insight would be appreciated....thanks for reading.

Mike


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Well...I've never written anything in a forum....but here it goes.
> 
> I'm 47, wife 42. We've been married now for 22 years, have 2 kiddos....son 18 and daughter 15.
> 
> ...


Oh man, what can i tell you, you fu&/(=ed it up. The last time she found out and your AP husband telling her things she didn0t know and that you were not honest with her. She stopped caring and maybe loving you hence her A. Not that two wrongs make a right, but you can't blame her, you did this to your M.

Good thing is you are still going to counseling. Of course she's going to rewrite your M as means to justify her feelings and actions.

IDK, it will take a lot to take you guys back to a healthy M again. If there's still love it can be done with hard work, patience and perseverance, if not it will be very, very hard.


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## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

Yeah....I get what you are saying. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I am lucky she is still here at all. Am going to keep on trying......


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Yeah....I get what you are saying. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I am lucky she is still here at all. Am going to keep on trying......


You should do more tan "keep up trying". DO EVERYTHING in your power that you can to heal your M, EVERYTHING.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

This place isn't very nice to cheaters, just giving you the head's up.

I don't have any advice for you other than the good ole "time will tell".


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Well...I've never written anything in a forum....but here it goes.
> 
> I'm 47, wife 42. We've been married now for 22 years, have 2 kiddos....son 18 and daughter 15.
> 
> ...


Hmm....I gotta be honest here. As a "cheater" myself, this reads to me like "How to push your already tenuous marriage right over the abyss following an affair". Am I reading this right? You got caught with your old girlfriend, promised your wife NC and then reestablished and renewed your affair with her?

And when you found out about her affair she showed/displayed no remorse? No surprise there IMO.

DDay for me was back in December. That day I went full disclosure. I gave my wife both their names (yes...I was "emotionally" involved with two women), vowed NC, gave her full access to everything...and have kept that promise. I spent a couple months sleeping in the guest bedroom. It wasn't until Valentine's Day that I was asked back in, but not after I have demonstrated active effort(s) in getting my head screwed on straight.

After reading your story, I am compelled to ask because I didn't see any mention of how remorseful you were once you told your wife (albeit not the full story...which is another screw up...again, when I was discovered, I came clean with her).

My wife and I are commited to staying together...provided I do the footwork and get help (I have a screwed up way of thinking/behaving)...Another question for you...Are you kind to her? Are you patient with her? Never once did I pressure my wife to take me back into the bedroom. I made her a promise that I would not ask to be allowed back in...that the decision will be entirely hers and I will honor however long that took. Meanwhile, I sought therapy. I withdrew from social media...I walked the walk. She saw me taking the necessary steps for the betterment of our marriage. We're going to make it. HTH and good luck my friend.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Well...I've never written anything in a forum....but here it goes.
> 
> I'm 47, wife 42. We've been married now for 22 years, have 2 kiddos....son 18 and daughter 15.
> 
> ...



Men who have affairs often adopt the attitude, yeah I know I hurt you but it was just sex for me, blah blah blah, you sound a bit like that. They expect the spouse to bounce back and restart the marriage. You have destroyed this woman by not only a 3 yr affair (she probably suspected deep down what you were up to, her gut would have told her) you got caught, restarted it and then lied about it. You have not a leg to stand on because from where your wife stands you are not only an adulterer but a liar. It's the lies that hurt her the most, how could she ever trust you again. I don't even know you and think the same thing. Only when you stand to lose everything do you start thinking with your big head rather than your little one! Sorry to be blunt, she had a revenge affair (a stupid thing to do in hindsight always) but she will drag you over the coals for this for a long time and frankly the mess you are in now is off your own making. I am sorry to be so unemphatic but you will have to do all of the work.


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## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for your comments/questions.

I did not renew my affair.....at least not physically. I had been in contact with my AP by phone, email....and we were eventually going to connect, I'm sure. The way I see it now, I was still in the 'fog'. I did not want to give up the affair when we got caught (the first time). I was not thinking clearly....I see now that I had thoughts at that time that just don't make sense now. But yes....this did wound my wife deeply.
After the second time....I did similar to what you did. I did give full disclosure. I was remorseful (sincerely), gave full access to everything, and spent about a month in the guest bedroom. 

I see your point about the lies hurting her the most. I feel that now. I don't expect empathy....and fully understand why this is my own doing. I get that.

I am fully committed to being a different person now, to being a better husband that way before my affair started. I am, of course, hurt by her affair, but realize that had I not brought someone else into the marriage, I would not have pushed her to do what she did. I see now how much I do value her and want to please her. 

You guys have just reinforced how much I hurt my wife. I needed that. Is easy to get upset and impatient with her now. I am being patient with her....and am trying to change the direction of our marriage to a better one, with her setting the pace. 

Thanks again for the input.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Did your wife agree to NC with her AP?

Who is her AP? Is he married. Can you expose to his wife?

When women have sex they usually become emotionally involved. It could take months for her feelings for OM to recede. 

You should stand up straight. Don't mope. Make sure you workout and are healthy. You need to look like you can go forward in life. If you look needy and crippled, she ain't going to want you so much.

Do you eat meals together?

What have you told your children?

TAM advises against revenge affairs. But your wife did not have a revenge affair really, did she? More like you destroyed her self esteem and she found an activity with another that rebuilt her.

Have you considered going to her parents and telling them what you have done? Have your discussed with this your wife?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

What were the "things" you couldn't tell your wife and she found them out from the AP's husband?

This is why some advise any betrayed receiving trickle truth to just let their SO go. They're not all-in. You were stringing her along under false R with secrets intact and the moment she learned the truth, I bet she felt like a huge fool.

I know I did under somewhat different, yet applicable circumstances. It really turns your attitude into a "F it all" one. 

If she wasn't meeting your needs and you'd done your best to communicate them to her, you should have left her to be with your ex. Why didn't you? 

You erred once, looks like she decided to forgive you. But you didn't come clean and still maintained contact with the OW.

I hate seeing hearts get hurt but I think there is not much to salvage here.


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## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

LongWalk - Yes...she did agree to no contact with her AP. She called him once about a month after DD, but she told me about it and promised not to do it again. Her AP is married.....and I have not contacted his wife. I have been telling myself that I shouldn't do that to the wife...that is unless my wife contacts her AP again. ????
I have been trying not to do the moping around.....and am trying to be positive around her and the kids. We do eat together, are doing date night once a week (no discussion about the kids or our personal problems), we watch TV together.....and other normal things.
We have not told the kids. We only told them that we are working through some issues, and that is why we are in separate bedrooms.
I really don't know if her's was a revenge affair or not. I tend to think not....I think she was hurt by me, I wasn't attentive enough to her particular love languages...and he gave her attention. I think that attention was greatly appreciated and needed by her and it slowly changed into an affair. (so yes...I think you are spot-on with you saying I destroyed her self-esteem).
Her parents know about what both of us have done. They are absolutely great! They were there for her when I was F&*^ing up, and now they are there for her (and me too). They just want the marriage to survive. 

Satya - What she found out from my AP's husband was that me and the AP were together 4 times instead of the 2 that I told my wife. I called myself trying not to tell her the whole truth to hopefully not hurt her or the marriage so badly. I know now that was a terrible mistake. 
You may be right about not having much to salvage....but I still love her and NOW....want to be the husband she needs. She is a wonderful and sweet woman. She is the only one I want, I am going to try until she ends it.

Again....thanks for the input. I have never thought so much about my actions and the reasons for them....am learning a lot about myself and who I really am.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

If you want R...then commit 100%.
Otherwise...pack your bags and make her life better by being out of it.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I'm not sure it's a good idea to salvage a marriage in which both parties have cheated on each other. It's just a lifetime mess that will always feel like two steps forward, 3 steps backward at best.

You two need a long time to heal from all this crap, AWAY FROM EACH OTHER.

I'd say prepare for divorce. Don't fear it. Welcome it. It can be a blessing for both of you.


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## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

I agree....Thanks.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I am going with synthetic on this. Work on getting divorced. Maybe along the way, you may discover each other again, or possibly after divorce. Or maybe not at all.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Agree also, maybe time away from each other after D, dating other people you both will realice you weren't made for each other, or maybe you will. Yo both need to heal.


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## My Turn.... (Mar 11, 2015)

You all may be right....but I'm not giving up yet.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> You all may be right....but I'm not giving up yet.


Don't. Fight 'till the end.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Thanks for your comments/questions.
> 
> I did not renew my affair.....*at least not physically. I had been in contact with my AP by phone, email....and we were eventually going to connect, I'm sure.* The way I see it now, I was still in the 'fog'. I did not want to give up the affair when we got caught (the first time). I was not thinking clearly....I see now that I had thoughts at that time that just don't make sense now. But yes....this did wound my wife deeply.
> After the second time....I did similar to what you did. I did give full disclosure. I was remorseful (sincerely), gave full access to everything, and spent about a month in the guest bedroom.


 That's where I was in my EA with the woman in Nebraska. Lots of "chats", exchanging of pics, etc...Had I continued in the EA with her it would have been only a matter of time before either she flew here or I flew there. But the thing is...an EA hurts every bit as much as a PA...Truth.



My Turn.... said:


> I see your point about the lies hurting her the most. I feel that now. I don't expect empathy....and fully understand why this is my own doing. I get that.


One thing I did that seemed to have helped my wife heal was to recognize, and ACKNOWLEDGE, the pain I have caused her. I do this over and over again so that she knows that I haven't forgotten what I've done, and to reaffirm to her that I am commited through my deeds to repairing the damage in our marriage.

Now when I say that I recognize and acknowledge her pain...I mean, I take her in my arms, I hold her, I then look her squarely in her eyes and I vocalize the words...

"I make no excuses for what I've done to you. I can't undo what I've done, but I can tell you right now, I am fully aware of how much pain and heartbreak you're experiencing...and I aim to make good on my commitment to you. Time will bear that out..you'll see. I can't begin to tell you how terribly sorry I am for what I've done. I love you so very much...and I will show you."...Sometimes when I say it, I'm reduced to a blubbering fool, but I manage to get it out through the tears...Yes, I too feel pain and in acknowledging my infidelities and what I've done to her, I can't help but cry.

I've told her this time and time again like I said. Just the other day when I told her for the umpteenth time, she replied with "Thank you. I need to hear you say this. It helps."

Good luck my friend and HTH. Namaste


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

My Turn.... said:


> Thanks for your comments/questions.
> 
> I did not renew my affair.....at least not physically. I had been in contact with my AP by phone, email....and we were eventually going to connect, I'm sure. The way I see it now, I was still in the 'fog'. I did not want to give up the affair when we got caught (the first time). I was not thinking clearly....I see now that I had thoughts at that time that just don't make sense now. But yes....this did wound my wife deeply.
> After the second time....I did similar to what you did. I did give full disclosure. I was remorseful (sincerely), gave full access to everything, and spent about a month in the guest bedroom.
> ...


I hope you and she make the changes needed. Your humility is a very good start. Good luck and I hope you have a better story to tell this time next year.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You caught her in the affair. She had no interest in it ending when it did. Women tend to become much more attached to affair partners than males. 

She told you the truth in that she is fighting her feelings for the OP. She still sees that relationship thru rose colored glasses. You have the two fold issue of her built up resentment from your affair and her desire to still be with her own affair partner. 

Its gonna take time and baby steps in the beginning. She does need to show remorse and be genuine in her attempt to repair the marriage. She does need to own her decision for her affair just as you need to own yours. Has she stopped contact with her affair partner?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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