# A ladies perspective would help. I cheated on my wife.



## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

Recently I was unfaithful to my wife of 10 years. I went to a conference in Las Vegas. After drinking way too much a few of us went to a strip club. I have gone to strip clubs plenty of times, a few times even with my wife, but where I am from you only get a lap dance. A dancer asked if I wanted a private dance and we went into a room behind a curtain. She touched herself and let me touch her. She started to touch me and then asked for $100 for oral sex. I gave her money and she gave me head. One of the guys I was with went with her for a private dance shortly afterwards.
When I returned home I got a call from the guy that also had a dance with her and said he was scared because he had a rash on his genitals. I also did but assumed it was from the hot tub we sat in everyday drinking. I started to freak out thinking I have an std. My friend said he would get tested and see what happens. I decided I needed to tell my wife that day. I couldn't take the chance she would touch me and get something. I went to the doctor the next day and explained what happened. She said it looks like a chemical rash and took a blood test for any std.
Until now we have had a very happy marriage. I broke her trust, her safety and her heart. I truly have great remorse. She has been my best friend for a decade and I was selfish and never thought she would know or be effected by my terrible decision. She is devastated, she cries everyday and cant be around my family.
I have been trying so hard to be there anytime she needs me. I've told her I'm sorry so many times I'm afraid it will start to sound insincere. I'm so ashamed of myself and scared about the test results that I will get I am having panic attacks. I know I deserve that but I'm trying to focus on her feelings and not my fears. 
Ladies what should I do to prove I love her, regain her trust, repair our marriage and ease the hurt I have caused?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What does she say she needs you to do?


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

She doesn't say. She doesn't express feelings well. I screwed up and need to figure out how to change this. That's why I am here asking for help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

One thing to think about is how would you react if you found out that she had gone out and had a one night stand with some one she picked up in club or on the street?

Give an honest answer to this.


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## ausgirl (May 4, 2012)

You only confessed because you thought you had caught something. Doesn't sound like real remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok so she knows that the only reason that you originally did it because you thought you would get away with it. You only told her because you think you might have gotten an STD. She knows this. 

Has she asked you how many more times you have cheated in the past? I'm sure she thinks that this is not the first or only time you have cheated.


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

Ele my honest answer would only be from a guys perspective. If she had sex with another man I would be extremely hurt. If she told me she went to dinner and had feelings for another man I would be devastated.


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

She has asked if I have cheated before. I'm going to be honest with the ladies that respond to me. I need your imput. I have had happy ending massages 4 times in the 10 years we have been together but not oral or vaginal sex. I don't feel telling her that will change anything right now. I know how much I hurt her and am sure this wont happen again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, I can only answer for myself, but a minimum would be total transparency, for the rest of your life. You would have to show great humility, meaning a willingness to admit when you are wrong, laying aside any pride, and to earn back trust.

Once trust is broken, it is so hard to respect that person again. Some of us find that love follows when we respect a man. It may never be exactly the same.

Keep showing your sincere remorse, OP. Maybe focus on actions more than words.

Honestly, I have not lived this, so what I am saying is only a guess at what might be helpful.

Just saw your last post. Like EleGirl said, would you forgive your wife if she had done what you have, how many times?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RGMason said:


> Ele my honest answer would only be from a guys perspective. If she had sex with another man I would be extremely hurt. If she told me she went to dinner and had feelings for another man I would be devastated.


From your response I don't think you understand the depth of devastation that you have visited upon your wife. 

Why did you cheat on your wife? You need to have a real answer to this. She's going to ask it if she has not already.

You say that your wife does not want to go around your family now. Why? Have you told your family what you did?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RGMason said:


> She has asked if I have cheated before. I'm going to be honest with the ladies that respond to me. I need your imput. I have had happy ending massages 4 times in the 10 years we have been together but not oral or vaginal sex. I don't feel telling her that will change anything right now. I know how much I hurt her and am sure this wont happen again.


What is your sex life like with your wife?


You have to tell her. You are doing what 99.9% of all cheaters do. You are lying to your wife and she knows it. I have no doubt that she feels it in her gut. When my husband lied like that I knew it and kept digging. Every time I found something else, he would suddenly remember just that as swear that there was nothing else. Then there would be the next thing I would find out.. and round and round we went. When I finally to sick of it all I just told him that since he is nothing more than a proven liar, I have no choice but to believe the worst things in my imagination...

Why are you cheating on your wife?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, you should ask a moderator to move this thread to the Coping With Infidelity forum.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Has she stated whether or not she intends to stay married to you? It might take her a while to decide one way or the other. Just wondering if she said anything.


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

I have not told a soul until this post. She feels that after what I have done she is not part of my family. Maybe it means she will leave me. As far as why did I cheat on my wife? Aside from being drunk and being in a very stressful time in my life, I guess the answer is I never thought it would affect her. I did not realize the hurt I could cause at the time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

RGMason said:


> I have not told a soul until this post. She feels that after what I have done she is not part of my family. Maybe it means she will leave me. As far as why did I cheat on my wife? Aside from being drunk and being in a very stressful time in my life, I guess the answer is I never thought it would affect her. I did not realize the hurt I could cause at the time.


Selfishness, OP?


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

Ele I just signed up to the forum 30 minutes ago and don't even know enough about the program to follow your responses. I would be happy to open it to anyones views.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RGMason said:


> I have not told a soul until this post. She feels that after what I have done she is not part of my family. Maybe it means she will leave me. As far as why did I cheat on my wife? Aside from being drunk and being in a very stressful time in my life, I guess the answer is I never thought it would affect her. I did not realize the hurt I could cause at the time.


Does your wife know that you go to strip clubs without her and get lap dances?

So you are ok with lying and cheating as long as you can hide it. I'll bet that's not the man your wife thought that she was married to.

Being drunk is not an excuse. You knew what you were going to do before you got drunk.


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

Yes selfishness, without a thought of the hurt it would cause.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I went to the Technical Difficulites forum and made a post asking for this thread to be moved to the CWI (coping with infidelity) forum.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/technical-difficulties/194266-please-move-thread-cwi.html#post8865162


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

I have been diminished in her eyes, not the man she married. I'm ashamed of the situation we are in and hurting her. What I a ashamed of the most is hurting her. Some people do learn lessons.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is a link to the CWI forum so you can do some reading there. 

Coping with Infidelity


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## RGMason (May 22, 2014)

Thank you Ele. I don't want to get beat up here but I am looking for answers.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> So you are ok with lying and cheating as long as you can hide it. *I'll bet that's not the man your wife thought that she was married to.*
> 
> Being drunk is not an excuse. You knew what you were going to do before you got drunk.


:iagree:

Everything she thought about you has been blown up, OP. And it sounds like even now you are not telling her the whole story, everything that you have done, cheating-wise.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

RGMason said:


> Thank you Ele. I don't want to get beat up here but I am looking for answers.


Try to be brave. Actually, you already are, to come here and open yourself up. 

Be as honest as possible. Everyone can help you best if you are as transparent as possible.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RGMason said:


> I have been diminished in her eyes, not the man she married. I'm ashamed of the situation we are in and hurting her. What I a ashamed of the most is hurting her. Some people do learn lessons.


I got to tell you, from experience it will be a while before you really learn the lesson you need to learn. This stuff becomes evident in layers like an onion. 


It takes a betrayed about 2-5 years to recover from infidelity. Your wife will most likely be extremely depressed for months.

If there is any hope in saving your marriage you are going to have to be very honest with her and you are going to have to put up with her expressing her pain to you over an over for months. That's the kind of support she's going to need.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RGMason said:


> Thank you Ele. I don't want to get beat up here but I am looking for answers.


Well there is a chance that you might get beat up some on here. If you don't let the harsh posts from some get to you, you can get support here. Just keep in mind that most of the people here have been cheated on. So they can be hard on someone who has cheated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Another thing that she will most likely ask is what were you thinking about her when you did these things. Was there an element of getting even with her for something? Was there an element of enjoying disrespecting her? 

You might want to consider suggesting marriage counseling. You make the appointments and see if she will go.

It might be a good idea for you to tell your closest family what you have done and ask their help in supporting your wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Two books that will help you..

After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

RGMason said:


> She has asked if I have cheated before. I'm going to be honest with the ladies that respond to me. I need your imput. I have had happy ending massages 4 times in the 10 years we have been together but not oral or vaginal sex. I don't feel telling her that will change anything right now. I know how much I hurt her and am sure this wont happen again.


Well - you don't value your wife, your marriage or your commitment to her.

Come clean with everything and let her decide if she wants to remain married to someone who has such disregard for her.

ETA: Common misconception that only vaginal sex is sex.
Being masturbated by another IS sexual contact...even if you paid for it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RGMason said:


> I have not told a soul until this post. She feels that after what I have done she is not part of my family. Maybe it means she will leave me. As far as why did I cheat on my wife? Aside from being drunk and being in a very stressful time in my life, I guess the answer is I never thought it would affect her. I did not realize the hurt I could cause at the time.


This is because YOU can separate love and sex.. I think you have this all wrong, many women don't .. or can't... my husband would feel the opposite of you...we have talked about this... if I had slept with a man, that means the EMOTIONAL was already alive & flowing... so it would be WAY WORSE than "just the emotional"... 

But in your case, you just allowed this women to suck you off.. ...there WAS ZERO emotional at all.. just exhilarating LUST in the moment taking you over...yeah, she needs to see this through your eyes.. no doubt.. but the reason this is a huge problem is.. she likely doesn't so easily separate love and sex...(like you feel all men do)... 

Irregardless of our feelings on these things when single... this is a boundary you just DO NOT CROSS -this was a huge betrayal...(I know I know - not trying to rub it in).... there is something very beautiful & honoring about putting our loved ones before our Lusts...self control is a virtue.. 

Not putting yourself in the position to fall -ever again..this needs to be your new way of life.. and a willing transparency from here in ...it will take time to rebuild what has been lost between you and your wife.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

Stop blaming Mr Booze and stress for why you cheated. I do not believe you being more upset if your wife had dinner with a man as opposed to sex. 

You cheated because you wanted to. That was the choice you made. You told your wife because you thought you had an STD.

Saying your sorry does not mean much. Actions speak louder than words. How about getting honest with yourself for a start. Call a therapist and get yourself into counseling. Lastly if alcohol played as big a roll in your cheating as you said then you need to be honest about it with your therapist so they can help you find out if you have a drinking problem.

I cheated on an ex once. Despite all my excuses it came down to one thing. I cheated out of choice. Nobody held a gun to my head. I cheated because I wanted to. It was not alcohols fault, or stress or any other excuse I could think of to try and justify my behavior.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

RGMason said:


> I have not told a soul until this post. She feels that after what I have done she is not part of my family. Maybe it means she will leave me. *As far as why did I cheat on my wife? Aside from being drunk and being in a very stressful time in my life, I guess the answer is I never thought it would affect her.* I did not realize the hurt I could cause at the time.


Unless you've been drunk every time you've gone in for one of those happy ending massages, then you really can't blame the drinking for cheating on your wife. If you have, then drinking leads to cheating for you, so you most likely are a problem drinker. In that case, stop drinking entirely. Forever.

But I think the last part of the bold above is what's really going on. You cheated because you wanted to and thought you could get away with it. You genuinely figured that what your wife didn't know wouldn't hurt her. 

I really want you to read this next bit carefully and think hard about it. Turn it over in your mind until you have really accepted it and can wrap your brain around it - until you really get it:

_Thinking that what she doesn't know won't hurt her is an indication of a deep, profound, disrespect for your wife. _ 

I would really recommend some individual counseling for you, to help you figure out how to get your head on straight and be a real committed husband. I think a good marriage counselor for the both of you might also help. But above all, I think you have to start respecting your wife enough to be honest with her, stop with the trickle-truth and come clean about everything you've done to betray her. Because no matter how little you seem to respect her, your wife actually does deserve to know at least a much about what's going on in her own marriage as the prostitutes you hire or the work buddies you share them with.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

If I were your wife, I would definitely divorce you. Clearly, you should be single if you think happy ending massages and BJs from strippers are not a betrayal to your partner. I hope some day you will learn what it means to love another person more than yourself, and put their happiness and well-being before your own. In the meantime, just be honest with yourself and your wife. Ask if your wife is willing to remain married while you continue to do what you're going to do anyway with other women, or be single. Your wife deserves better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Why do you want only women's input into this ?

What are you afraid of from the men here?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Please refrain from name calling. Thanks.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Not a lady but first you need to admit to yourself that you are a serial, unremorseful cheater, then you need to admit it to your wife. 

Until you can face what you are and be honest with your wife about it, you will just be rug sweeping you infidelities.

By your own admission, you have cheated on your wife five times in ten years so casually that you felt nothing besides, "what she doesn't know won't hurt her".

You still are not being honest with her and that shows you are not truly remorseful. 

The only thing you have done right is to not risk giving her the "rash" that you and your wonderful friend so brilliantly obtained by sticking your wankers in a wh0res mouth.

In my opinion, she would be better off without someone as stupid and selfish as you. You could become a better man but it won't start while you are still being a lying, controlling cheater. Yes, as long as you are lying, you are still cheating!
You have already hurt her, the only person you are protecting by lying now is you.

If you want a second chance, you need to acknowledge that you will never deserve it and it would be a gift.

You need to let her know what she will be forgiving, she doesn't really know what she married at this point, she deserves to know what she might be staying married to.

You need IC to start figuring out where you are broken and get fixed, regardless of weather your marriage is salvaged.

Overall, you need to grow up and own your sh!t. Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You're not the man your wife thought she married. You're a lying serial cheat that feels bad he got caught and was exposed as the scumbag he is. You can at least rectify the liar part and tell her everything, because she needs to know and come to terms with who you really are if you're going to move forward. She already assumes you're lying and there's more she doesn't know, so at least if you tell her yourself you could regain your honesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

> She has asked if I have cheated before. I'm going to be honest with the ladies that respond to me. I need your imput. I have had happy ending massages 4 times in the 10 years we have been together but not oral or vaginal sex. I don't feel telling her that will change anything right now. I know how much I hurt her and am sure this wont happen again.


Keeping secrets is a form of controlling. She asked you a direct question, but you kept the truth from her. That's control, not remorse. That's all about controlling how YOU look in her eyes, not about giving HER the truth SHE wants and deserves. You're not really looking at this from her perspective yet, but that's not unusual.

Most unfaithful spouses do not "get it." The book that was recommended already, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald would help you to "get it" but you are a serial cheater and I'm not sure you are ready yet to take responsibility for your actions. 

If the massages were from the same woman, you've "only" cheated on her with two women, but if each massage was from a different woman, then you're up to 5 different women. How would you feel if your wife had had "happy ending" massages plus oral sex with between 2 and 5 different men?? Would you want to stay married to her?

And you've put your wife at risk for several std's, not the least of which is HPV, if she ever has sex with you again. You can't be tested for HPV - only women can. IF she ever has sex with you again, she'd need to have a pap with an HPV test because untreated it could lead to cervical cancer.

You need to be honest with her about all of this, and NOW. Let HER decide what she wants to do about it. You made unilateral decisions about how you were going to behave behind her back. Now it's her turn to make some unilateral decisions, and now you have to be the one who isn't in control.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Find a massage therapist that will give HER a happy ending and pay for four appointments. Hand them to her. Tell her why.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

dude, you've got to stop going to strip clubs and massage parlors.

They are for bachelors.

I know, I used to go to them when I was a bachelor. for most men there is too much temptation.

whatever you do (and it sounds like you do really love your wife), swear to yourself and your wife now that you will never go to another strip club, massage parlor the rest of your married life, neither with buddies or otherwise. when you are asked by your buds to hit the strip club, JUST SAY NO!!!!

that's for starters.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: A ladies perspective would help. I cheated on my wife.*



RGMason said:


> She has asked if I have cheated before. I'm going to be honest with the ladies that respond to me. I need your imput. I have had happy ending massages 4 times in the 10 years we have been together but not oral or vaginal sex. I don't feel telling her that will change anything right now. I know how much I hurt her and am sure this wont happen again.


So you cheated (at least) 5 times in 10 years, wow... if I was her I would run!!! Also you put her health at risk big time.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I hope you keep posting, because if you don't admit to your wife EVERYthing you've done and let her decide where to go from there, you will simply repeat this behaviour.

Please read my story - just click on the link in my signature - about what my husband did. Not the same but similar, and what you've been doing does have components of sex addiction to it. I am NOT saying you are a sex addict, but I think it would do you a lot of good to go see a certified sex addiction therapist and talk about what you have been doing. It can only help.

I think you finally realize that what you're doing is destructive. Please don't bury it and try to pretend it never happened.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't understand you men.

1. You got the std.

2. what if she got pregnant?

3. what if she accused yo of date rape?

these fly by night experiences can last a whole lifetime.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

As for why you came to the lady's section, wanting to get a lady's perspective, here is what I'd say: Your wife will have a hard time trusting you, so guess what rises to the TOP of her needs right now?

Honesty.

NOTHING will matter to her for the next few months or years as believing that you are being honest.

So guess what that means? You have to be honest. You've lost the right to decide which 'truths' you tell her and which ones you hide. If you ever want her to fully invest in a marriage with you again, the truth has to be told. As a woman, that is the only way I'd consider staying with you - hearing ALL your dirty secrets.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

turnera said:


> Find a massage therapist that will give HER a happy ending and pay for four appointments. Hand them to her. Tell her why.


And a male stripper to give her a lap dance and some oral fun.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

In my opinion, the female perspective is:

"You did this because you wanted to. Why is this something you want? Aren't I enough? How could you want to do these things with another woman when you say you love me?"


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Ok so you have cheated on her 5 times with sex workers until now right? my husband was getting happy ending massages and now we are in a divorce. It's disgusting. If you are a right man you would have told her straight away, you don't sound like you think it's a big deal to go outside of your marriage for extramarital activities. 

Do you want my honest opinion? if i would be her i would have left you, i have been married to my husband for very long time and i couldn't get over what he was doing with those ladies. 

It will be very difficult to get over something like this. I consider emotional infidelity to be on par with physical infidelity, once you do something you can only do with your partner with someone else, it's all lost. Your wife might be different though.

You actually sound SO much as my husband. To all those who say to this guy to reform, i am telling you people like this can't reform, they will stay like this forever. Saying NO to strip clubs will not change what he has done with those girls. Massage parlors ( brothels) and strip clubs are the deal breaker for me. To be honest i think your wife should cheat on you.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> In my opinion, the female perspective is:
> 
> "You did this because you wanted to. Why is this something you want? Aren't I enough? How could you want to do these things with another woman when you say you love me?"


This is a typical perspective of a woman. I have to agree with the first sentence the rest is a total crap because Most men are driven by their biological instincts. He obviously wants variety, men don't think having emotional sex is a big deal, especially if it's not intercourse. 

I would say " You went to these places while you were aware of what will happen to you and you were totally aware of what you are doing. You didn't care about my emotions because you knew you would get away with it. This tells me that you are just a typical man, and not the person i thought you are. "

I would leave the extra services that the places offer for the next discussion.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> This is a typical perspective of a woman. I have to agree with the first sentence the rest is a total crap because Most men are driven by their biological instincts. He obviously wants variety, men don't think having emotional sex is a big deal, especially if it's not intercourse.
> 
> I would say " You went to these places while you were aware of what will happen to you and you were totally aware of what you are doing. You didn't care about my emotions because you knew you would get away with it. This tells me that you are just a typical man, and not the person i thought you are. "
> 
> I would leave the extra services that the places offer for the next discussion.


AD is telling him what his wife is liable to be thinking, not what he actually may have been thinking. Calling what someone else posts 'total crap' might be something you want to hold off on.

And telling someone who is actually looking remorseful that his wife should cheat on him isn't going to help matters either.

You're projecting.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

RGMason

You asked for help. 

You need to make your wife understand that your past actions (strippers/massages) were selfish, conscious decisions on your part.

That you did not think of her when making those decisions.

You need to own up to that.

You need to re-assure your wife that you never thought your bad decisions would become known or that they would ever hurt her.

Make her understand that your view of these decisions was wrong and selfish of you.

You became aware of just how wrong your thinking was when you realized you could be passing an STD to her.

Throw yourself on her mercy.

Re-assure her that you love her and only want to be with her.
Re-assure her that you will do what it takes to build back the trust that was in your marriage.

You need to show her actions. Not words.

Good Luck

HM


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

So you only tell her about your indiscretions when you think that either you or both of you could have a health risk. Strip clubs, lab dances, getting jacked during a message...that's all ok, you don't tell her about that. Seems awfully messed up to me. You say you would be hurt if she met someone else and was involved in a sex act. I think you really need to re-examine what's ok and what isn't for both of you and you need to be transparent about your actions, or this relationship isn't going to work. Is there any reason in particular that you go to strip clubs? Is she not meeting your needs?


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> AD is telling him what his wife is liable to be thinking, not what he actually may have been thinking. Calling what someone else posts 'total crap' might be something you want to hold off on.
> 
> And telling someone who is actually looking remorseful that his wife should cheat on him isn't going to help matters either.
> 
> You're projecting.


He looks remorseful because he told her the truth. Why didn't he tell her about the massages? i don't think he would have told her about the strip club if he would know he has no chance of catching ST D's. So IF he is feeling remorseful, it's because he told her the truth. I know from experience. 

I said she should cheat on him because that way he would feel what his wife is feeling at the moment. That would kick some sense into him and realize the wrongness in his actions, of course that is if he would be able to cope with the situation, which i doubt he would.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Just think, OP, you've already trickle truthed complete strangers. I can't imagine what your home life will be like if you continue on your present course.

On a personal side, I find it rather icky that you would come here and ask for only a female perspective. Seems like you're still on the prowl as you can't get an STD from online. Looking for the _one_ female who will "agree" with your take on things. Then, pulling the trigger on that PM.

Yup. Pretty icky.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> He looks remorseful because he told her the truth. Why didn't he tell her about the massages? i don't think he would have told her about the strip club if he would know he has no chance of catching ST D's. So IF he is feeling remorseful, it's because he told her the truth. I know from experience.
> 
> I said she should cheat on him because that way he would feel what his wife is feeling at the moment. That would kick some sense into him and realize the wrongness in his actions, of course that is if he would be able to cope with the situation, which i doubt he would.


I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. I think he is starting to realize what he actually did and that's why he's here. I could be wrong, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

You ARE projecting here because of what your husband did to you. This guy is not your husband, nor is he mine.

Revenge cheating is NEVER EVER EVER a good idea EVER. That you would seriously recommend it speaks to how hurt you really are yourself, and that maybe you have a bit of healing to do before you start giving others advice.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> RGMason
> 
> You asked for help.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this except the bolded part. Telling her that you basically didn't think you'd get caught isn't going to go over very well. She obviously knows this already.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. I think he is starting to realize what he actually did and that's why he's here. I could be wrong, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> You ARE projecting here because of what your husband did to you. This guy is not your husband, nor is he mine.
> 
> Revenge cheating is NEVER EVER EVER a good idea EVER. That you would seriously recommend it speaks to how hurt you really are yourself, and that maybe you have a bit of healing to do before you start giving others advice.


I think i can speak from experience. I know he is not my husband, but i can tell what a man is like based on his attitude and way of thinking. That's why i think what i am saying is correct. I learned a lot. I am very well aware of these type of cases, healing is irrelevant in my opinion.


Sad but true, sometimes cheaters need to get hit by their own medicine, this is not always the case though.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Ok Dawg, you didn't ask for a male's perspective but you're getting one anyway. What the hell are you doing hanging around strip joint soliciting lap dances and BJs. If you really give a damn about your wife your wife, that would be off the table and I don't care what you and others say. If you need sexual stimulation beyond what you have a home, get single. A guy who has respect for his wife and marriage don't go around feeling up strippers. Truth is you want to "tomcat" around and not let the old lady find out about it. It wasnt because you were drunk and under stress. You wanted something on the side. You need to clean up your act damn quick if you want to be married. You've managed to hurt her in ways you can't even imagine just to get your rocks off with a hooker. If your wife were my sister, SIL, or a friend, I'd recommend she ditch you and find someone who doesn't require outside stimulation to make life worth living. This is coming from a man who was an part time escort for nearly 10 years, appreciates and has forgot more about women than you'll ever be interested in knowing. BTW, screw the paragraphs; I don't feel like f-ing with them.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

WELL,

if it were no big deal and he thought it wouldn't hurt his wife he would have come home and bragged about the happy endings and about the BJ (that he paid for with marital assets) to his wife

SO - in NOT sharing any of these instances with her UNTIL he got an STD scare...is OBVIOUS that he knew it was wrong and would OF COURSE hurt her.

Using being drunk and pressured as an EXCUSE is lame - and just another thing that proves he KNEW it was wrong 

Point is OP MADE A CHOICE - at LEAST 5 times to be unffaithful to his wife

IF he were truly remorseful for having done it - and NOT for getting caught

He would be completely transparent and honest with her as to what exactly he HAS done 

SHE gets to decide IF she wants to bother with forgiving and working things out OR NOT

Come clean - be a man and own your decisions, your choices - answer her questions TRUTHFULLY


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> What the hell are you doing hanging around strip joint soliciting lap dances and BJs.


This.^^^

I think another poster mentioned temptation. This is the key. Why go to these places? You now have two problems: your wife potentially leaving you and your strong desire for physical/sexual contact with with other women.

Lots of us have husbands who travel for work. I asked my husband what he would do if he found himself in a strip club with a lap dancer on his lap. Would he agree to the lap dance? Would he take it further and go to the private room? Because of course it is tempting! A beautiful, sexy woman wriggling on your lap... what man could resist? This was my theory. I told him no man could resist.

He said that he WOULD be able to resist, but that it was a moot point because he wouldn't go to those kinds of places anyway. On his last business trip, a colleague suggested going and my H refused. I think many of the colleagues refused, so the guy didn't end up going.

You seem like a genuinely remorseful person and I don't think you understand the pain you caused, because deep down, for you it's really not a big deal: just some sexual gratification. This is the issue you need to deal with and talk about with your wife.

Best of luck.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's one thing for a woman to try to understand what underlies a man's motivation. It's quite another thing to really feel it and identify with it.

A woman might understand that a man 'wants variety,' so she can say that she understands how he could do what he did.

The question she wants answered and that there really is no exonerating answer to is, "How could he do this TO ME, TO US?"

Therein lies the betrayal for me and exactly what OP has to comprehend. He not only betrayed his W, but he betrayed their bond and their marriage. He did this to her, but he also did it to them.

I think that he is part of that subset of men who think that their biological urges just are what they are and he responds to them. He knows that this will hurt his W, so he does it in secret. If she agrees to keep this marriage going, he will repeat this behavior, especially because he won't tell her about the massages. But now she knows that he is capable of this behavior and she will be tortured in the marriage.

No matter what the biology (and FWIW, monogamy is also a biological drive, as well as all of our emotions - how could it be anything else?), OP is a married man & as said so eloquently above, what is a married man doing going to strip clubs and getting lap dances and 'happy endings' at massage parlors?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I think i can speak from experience. I know he is not my husband, but i can tell what a man is like based on his attitude and way of thinking. That's why i think what i am saying is correct. I learned a lot. I am very well aware of these type of cases, healing is irrelevant in my opinion.
> 
> Sad but true, sometimes cheaters need to get hit by their own medicine, this is not always the case though.


So did you have an RA?

I totally agree that this guy needs to be hit with a 2x4. But I will never agree that that 2x4 should be an RA. No way.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi there and I am sorry you made such a selfish choice and had no regard for your wife's feelings, she trusted you she believed in you and you have shattered that. I am sure she thinking the marriage vow no longer stands either………..forsaking all others remember.
I would suggest keep apologizing every day, be accountable for all your time, give her access to all ways you can communicate with anyone else at all times.
And then you have to come clean with all of it……..Tell her you made a mistake and want to fix yourself and the marriage because you obviously need to fix your boundaries of what is right and wrong in the marriage, then you offer up a lie detector test to verify there is nothing else……….You offer that test every 6 months until she feels the truth and trust again…..every time you walk out the door it is now a possibility with someone with the boundaries you seem to want to have in your marriage.
You need to change you……and mean it if it is just a smoke screen she will feel it and see it ……she will be watching every word out of your mouth now for any untruths.
make sure everything you say is the honest truth……even if it hurts she needs to know where the line of trust can start……..
don't break any promises don't go out with the boys and maybe you could offer to find another job that does not involve any trouble image the anxiety she is going to feel now every time you would go….it would be torture for her.
Then I would expose to both sides of the family and your friends telling them all how horrible you feel and how accountable you want to be for your actions.
I would start there, you have f'ed up there are no guarantees, you hurt her fix it.
I would also offer a renewal of the vows you spoke to her tell her you need to fix this for you not her….she needs to know it isn't alright with you don't leave it that way or you will ruin every anniversary you could have……….
she needs to see you doing the right things for you, your boundaries are damaged she trusts herself not you……….it is your changes that will convince her.,
if it's worth it nothing is to much work if you do this she will see that if you give her any kind of excuses reasons justifications you will never have a real marriage……….if your serious then mean it put yourself out there and stand up for your wife and marriage…..


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I think i can speak from experience. I know he is not my husband, but i can tell what a man is like based on his attitude and way of thinking. That's why i think what i am saying is correct. I learned a lot. I am very well aware of these type of cases, healing is irrelevant in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sad but true, sometimes cheaters need to get hit by their own medicine, this is not always the case though.


What does a revenge affair solve? Nothing. I'm almost two years out from DD and have previously entertained thoughts of an RA but not going there. First of all, I'm not lowering myself to that kind of behavior and two,it would totally obliterate the progress made in R. An RA won't square up my actions with WS's and I would be ashamed of my own behavior. I don't generally give a rat's hind end about the opinions of others but I wouldn't want our three adult children to know BOTH of their parents are cheaters. 

If the OP's wife had an RA then they would have two colossal problems to work through in their marriage, not just the OP's cheating. This isn't the best comparison but using it since driving while intoxicated is a deliberate choice, such as cheating is. If I were to drive under the influence and get caught and charged by the police, understandably my WS would be very upset and angry with me for making a dangerous choice which would impact us both in many ways. Due to the fact WS would be mad at me for making such a s*itty, life altering choice, would it then make sense for him to go out and get a DUI himself, to teach me a lesson?

Again, it's not the greatest comparison but it makes my point. The OP's wife having an RA would only make their situation far worse, it solves nothing and won't teach any adulterer anything. If the OP wants to change, the change has to come from within him. I will admit that having an RA was something I considered while still really angry. On the whole, advising a BS to have an RA is terrible advice. As the other poster mentioned, that advice is coming from a place of hurt and pain that needs to be dealt with. Just my .02.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

meant to say travelling job


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I couldn't like enough posts, so I'll just say to you ladies, good job. 

I agree. I can't condone a revenge affair, though, I'd like to. I know it would end up making the BS feel crappy and lose ground. Not good.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> So did you have an RA?
> 
> I totally agree that this guy needs to be hit with a 2x4. But I will never agree that that 2x4 should be an RA. No way.



No i did not have an affair. There is no need for an affair. All i did was i gave the same treatment that my husband was receiving to a few guys in a very friendly manner. What did i found out? i found out that my hubby was reluctant to make an effort to reconcile, even though our marriage was broken, i wanted to know if he really loved me or not. Why is that? simple, these types of men are very hypocritical and care only for their own satisfaction, i consider them selfish and reckless.

I bet OP would react the same even though he cheated on her many times.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> What does a revenge affair solve? Nothing. I'm almost two years out from DD and have previously entertained thoughts of an RA but not going there. First of all, I'm not lowering myself to that kind of behavior and two,it would totally obliterate the progress made in R. An RA won't square up my actions with WS's and I would be ashamed of my own behavior. I don't generally give a rat's hind end about the opinions of others but I wouldn't want our three adult children to know BOTH of their parents are cheaters.
> 
> If the OP's wife had an RA then they would have two colossal problems to work through in their marriage, not just the OP's cheating. This isn't the best comparison but using it since driving while intoxicated is a deliberate choice, such as cheating is. If I were to drive under the influence and get caught and charged by the police, understandably my WS would be very upset and angry with me for making a dangerous choice which would impact us both in many ways. Due to the fact WS would be mad at me for making such a s*itty, life altering choice, would it then make sense for him to go out and get a DUI himself, to teach me a lesson?
> 
> ...


I never advised RA. I believe you should hurt a cheater the way they hurt you. If you show the adulterer how he/she behaved, acted and felt, then i believe they will realize what they were doing is wrong, can they change? not in the slightest. 

People like that will never chance because they will never consider emotionless sex cheating. To them it means nothing, i met many people like that. Look at OP, he cheated 4 times previously, and now again... 

I know people like this like my left hand, and i can say that such people will never stop considering repeating their actions again if they are either stressed or drunk or whatever their excuse is. Such people i believe will keep secrets forever.
I can tell from the OP's post that he doesn't feel remorse for the acts he committed with sex workers. He never will.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I never advised RA. I believe you should hurt a cheater the way they hurt you. If you show the adulterer how he/she behaved, acted and felt, then i believe they will realize what they were doing is wrong, can they change? not in the slightest.
> 
> People like that will never chance because they will never consider emotionless sex cheating. To them it means nothing, i met many people like that. Look at OP, he cheated 4 times previously, and now again...
> 
> ...


So if there was no RA, what did you do with other men to give your WS a taste of his own medicine? Your WS realized what he was doing was wrong but did not change? Sorry, not following you there. :scratchhead:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> i gave the same treatment that my husband was receiving to a few guys in a very friendly manner.


What exactly does this mean, and how exactly do you define an affair?


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> So if there was no RA, what did you do with other men to give your WS a taste of his own medicine? Your WS realized what he was doing was wrong but did not change? Sorry, not following you there. :scratchhead:


I thought you would already know what since you already read what the OP had done. 

To clarify, i gave a few happy ending massages ( yes my husband was getting them for a long time) to a number of friends.  but with no shower 

After my hubby found out, he was angry, he could not stand me giving pleasure to someone other than him. 

I was reluctant to work on my marriage after that, neither was he. He knew he was doing something wrong right from the start, there was no reason for him to change now. 

Idk if this applies to OP.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> What exactly does this mean, and how exactly do you define an affair?


An affair is when two people are meeting each others for something that should be only shared between the husband and the wife. It can be just physical or even emotional.

I personally consider going to the same woman for sexual release an physical affair, but most people would not consider this an affair.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> An affair is when two people are meeting each others for something that should be only shared between the husband and the wife. It can be just physical or even emotional.
> 
> I personally consider going to the same woman for sexual release an physical affair, but most people would not consider this an affair.


I don't know your definition of most here, but I can tell you that most for me is a high majority percentage like 70-80 % or greater and "most" of the people I know would consider this an affair. If you are going to someone other than your spouse/ significant other for your sexual release, whether actual intercourse is involved or them just manipulating your genitalia to a release or not, I consider (and most people I know) this to be an A and cheating.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> An affair is when two people are meeting each others for something that should be only shared between the husband and the wife. It can be just physical or even emotional.
> 
> I personally consider going to the same woman for sexual release an physical affair, but most people would not consider this an affair.


By your definition then you did not have an RA. You gave revenge happy endings.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> I don't know your definition of most here, but I can tell you that most for me is a high majority percentage like 70-80 % or greater and "most" of the people I know would consider this an affair. If you are going to someone other than your spouse/ significant other for your sexual release, whether actual intercourse is involved or them just manipulating your genitalia to a release or not, I consider (and most people I know) this to be an A and cheating.


She did not go to someone else for her sexual release. She played the part of the sex worker, giving out happy endings. I'm not sure that's the same thing.. got to thing this one through..

If I had wanted revenge, not the way I would have done it. I would have made sure I got what he got... my own pleasure taken care of... not servicing someone else. :scratchhead:


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

RGMason said:


> Recently I was unfaithful to my wife of 10 years. I went to a conference in Las Vegas. After drinking way too much a few of us went to a strip club. I have gone to strip clubs plenty of times, a few times even with my wife, but where I am from you only get a lap dance. A dancer asked if I wanted a private dance and we went into a room behind a curtain. She touched herself and let me touch her. She started to touch me and then asked for $100 for oral sex. I gave her money and she gave me head. One of the guys I was with went with her for a private dance shortly afterwards.
> When I returned home I got a call from the guy that also had a dance with her and said he was scared because he had a rash on his genitals. I also did but assumed it was from the hot tub we sat in everyday drinking. I started to freak out thinking I have an std. My friend said he would get tested and see what happens. I decided I needed to tell my wife that day. I couldn't take the chance she would touch me and get something. I went to the doctor the next day and explained what happened. She said it looks like a chemical rash and took a blood test for any std.
> Until now we have had a very happy marriage. I broke her trust, her safety and her heart. I truly have great remorse. She has been my best friend for a decade and I was selfish and never thought she would know or be effected by my terrible decision. She is devastated, she cries everyday and cant be around my family.
> I have been trying so hard to be there anytime she needs me. I've told her I'm sorry so many times I'm afraid it will start to sound insincere. I'm so ashamed of myself and scared about the test results that I will get I am having panic attacks. I know I deserve that but I'm trying to focus on her feelings and not my fears.
> Ladies what should I do to prove I love her, regain her trust, repair our marriage and ease the hurt I have caused?


I'm coming in way late and didn't read the thread at all. 

Here is about all I have to say...

Trust & faith in the knowledge that in ones head & heart their spouse would never betray them. That the idea of doing so is hateful and they derive a lot of security from that knowledge. And checking up on someone has nothing to do with rebuilding trust & faith.

To me, it can never be rebuilt. 

Period.

You're a betrayer, pure and simple.

So what to do?

All you can do, if she will have you (and I see no reason why she should), is never betray her again. She can never have true trust and faith in you again, but at least you can make the effort to be trusting and faithful despite your propensities to the contrary. Don't try and prove yourself to her (because you can't).... just be open and honest.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> She did not go to someone else for her sexual release. She played the part of the sex worker, giving out happy endings. I'm not sure that's the same thing.. got to thing this one through..
> 
> If I had wanted revenge, not the way I would have done it. I would have made sure I got what he got... my own pleasure taken care of... not servicing someone else. :scratchhead:


The point is, men who get happy endings do not consider their wife getting the same treatment performed on her a big deal or cheating. But then consider their wife performing happy endings on other men a deal breaker. 

I had to therefore reverse the situation to make him feel what i felt. It was the only way. I don't think there is much of a difference btw.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> The point is, men who get happy endings do not consider their wife getting the same treatment performed on her a big deal or cheating. But then consider their wife performing happy endings on other men a deal breaker.
> 
> I had to therefore reverse the situation to make him feel what i felt. It was the only way. I don't think there is much of a difference btw.


Oh I think that you are wrong about this. Most men who get things like happy endings would consider their wife getting sexual satisfaction from another man cheating... and most men divorce their wife if she cheats.

Men who get happy endings have no respect at all for the women who give them. They are basically prostitutes.

Whatever worked for you I guess.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Oh I think that you are wrong about this. Most men who get things like happy endings would consider their wife getting sexual satisfaction from another man cheating... and most men divorce their wife if she cheats.
> 
> Men who get happy endings have no respect at all for the women who give them. They are basically prostitutes.
> 
> Whatever worked for you I guess.


Very interesting, i know many men who in fact wouldn't care if their wife got a happy ending as it's not cheating in many men eyes. Whether it's a woman or not has some relevance i think. 

About the respect issue, i have to disagree with this because at least i have met men who have respect of ALL women, whether they are prostitutes or not, they think prostitution is normal. I would rather call these places brothels, but yes i will never forget my husbands reaction recommending for all women to do this if they want to get back at their husbands, however a divorce will be definite. So only if you are sure you want to leave your marriage i would say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> Very interesting, i know many men who in fact wouldn't care if their wife got a happy ending as it's not cheating in many men eyes. Whether it's a woman or not has some relevance i think.


Are you saying that some men you know are ok with their wife getting happy endings as long as it's a woman giving the happy ending? If it was a man, this would not be ok?



Pattiroxxi said:


> About the respect issue, i have to disagree with this because at least i have met men who have respect of ALL women, whether they are prostitutes or not, they think prostitution is normal. I would rather call these places brothels, .


Would your husband and these other men marry a woman who works as a prostitute in a brothel? I would be surprised if they would. That will tell you what they really think.



Pattiroxxi said:


> but yes i will never forget my husbands reaction recommending for all women to do this if they want to get back at their husbands, however a divorce will be definite. So only if you are sure you want to leave your marriage i would say.


I think it's a horrible idea. But whatever floats your boat. You go the revenge you wanted.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Are you saying that some men you know are ok with their wife getting happy endings as long as it's a woman giving the happy ending? If it was a man, this would not be ok?
> 
> 
> Would your husband and these other men marry a woman who works as a prostitute in a brothel? I would be surprised if they would. That will tell you what they really think.
> ...


In fact all the men i talked to so far said that their wife getting a happy ending massage would be OK with them, as long as there is no mouth or genital contact. They didn't care if it was from a man or a woman. 

I remember one man told me, she can do anything she wants except the happy ending, oral sex and intercourse. Men usually get a table shower before the massage, where they basically get bathed by one of the ladies. That is apparently not the same as getting a happy ending, and that man said he would not care if she was doing that to men. He came up with the example that a nurse has to sometimes wash you if it's needed, so it's the same thing :rofl: But no, no man would accept their wife providing sexual services to other men. 

I had enough of women being the ones who have to forgive, accept everything and so on. If the man divorces his wife because of something like this, he obviously doesn't care about his marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> In fact all the men i talked to so far said that their wife getting a happy ending massage would be OK with them, as long as there is no mouth or genital contact. They didn't care if it was from a man or a woman.
> 
> I remember one man told me, she can do anything she wants except the happy ending, oral sex and intercourse. Men usually get a table shower before the massage, where they basically get bathed by one of the ladies. That is apparently not the same as getting a happy ending, and that man said he would not care if she was doing that to men. He came up with the example that a nurse has to sometimes wash you if it's needed, so it's the same thing :rofl: But no, no man would accept their wife providing sexual services to other men.
> 
> I had enough of women being the ones who have to forgive, accept everything and so on. If the man divorces his wife because of something like this, he obviously doesn't care about his marriage.


I don't know where you live, but the people most people (man or woman) would accept their spouse going to a brothel and/or getting happy endings.

Sure there are people here who do it... but it's considered pretty sleazy behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I had enough of women being the ones who have to forgive, accept everything and so on. If the man divorces his wife because of something like this, he obviously doesn't care about his marriage.


Wait a minute, you were angry with your husband going to places for happy endings. So you dumped him... and you did your revenge thing...

So by your own statement above, that means that you did not care about your marriage ???? :scratchhead:

I agree with the double standard and not putting up with it.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Wait a minute, you were angry with your husband going to places for happy endings. So you dumped him... and you did your revenge thing...
> 
> So by your own statement above, that means that you did not care about your marriage ???? :scratchhead:
> 
> I agree with the double standard and not putting up with it.


Table showers and happy endings i would say. By the time i got to the point of revenge, i accepted that my marriage was over. So after i found out about the happy endings and showers, i knew i would NOT get over it and my marriage meant nothing to me at that point. So after, no i didn't care, before yes i did. 

I live in UK, i thought this practice is thought of as shameful and illegal in USA, i guess i was wrong. Here it's not thought of as much, i don't think many people know about the existence of these places.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I live in UK, i thought this practice is thought of as shameful and illegal in USA, i guess i was wrong. Here it's not thought of as much, i don't think many people know about the existence of these places.


It is considered both shameful and illegal in the US, yet still has a thriving practice, just as infidelity does. 

I find it odd that you say many people don't know of these places. I think if that's the case, then your questioning of many men may be misguided. It is quite easy to answer one way when it is considered a hypothetical question and behave a completely different way when it happens in reality. I think these men that answered the way they did, are either fantasizing about watching their wife receive this "happy ending" massage (such as the typical 3 way fantasy) but when they find out it happened in actuality, they would be appalled and upset. The same way that several see a PA as a breaking point for ending their relationship and swear they would never accept such behavior, yet when faced with it in actuality generally react differently and attempt R, at least at first, even though previously it was stated that it was a breaking point and hard line for them.

I myself only know of one man that would possibly say they would think it was fine, but he is an @ssh0le cheater (note I said know, he is NOT a friend) in supposedly an open marriage and says his wife sleeping around is fine (but the second Mr. Twoface found out about his wife texting others, he went ballistic. He basically was a, "we are in an open relationship" person that was fine with it as long as he was the only one getting anything, and with females it is easier to get partners so he got mad when her part was more open than his was, @ssh0le) which illustrates my point exactly.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> It is considered both shameful and illegal in the US, yet still has a thriving practice, just as infidelity does.
> 
> I find it odd that you say many people don't know of these places. I think if that's the case, then your questioning of many men may be misguided. It is quite easy to answer one way when it is considered a hypothetical question and behave a completely different way when it happens in reality. I think these men that answered the way they did, are either fantasizing about watching their wife receive this "happy ending" massage (such as the typical 3 way fantasy) but when they find out it happened in actuality, they would be appalled and upset. The same way that several see a PA as a breaking point for ending their relationship and swear they would never accept such behavior, yet when faced with it in actuality generally react differently and attempt R, at least at first, even though previously it was stated that it was a breaking point and hard line for them.
> 
> I myself only know of one man that would possibly say they would think it was fine, but he is an @ssh0le cheater (note I said know, he is NOT a friend) in supposedly an open marriage and says his wife sleeping around is fine (but the second Mr. Twoface found out about his wife texting others, he went ballistic. He basically was a, "we are in an open relationship" person that was fine with it as long as he was the only one getting anything, and with females it is easier to get partners so he got mad when her part was more open than his was, @ssh0le) which illustrates my point exactly.


I think that women are mostly unaware of these massage parlors. That's one reason they are disguising themselves as therapeutic massage parlors. Most women even if they find out that their hubby went to such place, assume he got a genuine massage, which is total bull****. 

The men i have spoken to, are men who have been visiting such businesses while traveling in the past or are currently cheating on their wives at these places. They are definitely not fantasizing, one has been doing it for decades, most for years. They told me everything. And a happy ending with a bath is not the only thing they offer. 

Yes, that man is an jerk. Although his behavior differs to those men that i had a discussion with, what you said about the double standard still applies to all men. Very true.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> I think that women are mostly unaware of these massage parlors. That's one reason they are disguising themselves as therapeutic massage parlors. Most women even if they find out that their hubby went to such place, assume he got a genuine massage, which is total bull****.
> 
> The men i have spoken to, are men who have been visiting such businesses while traveling in the past or are currently cheating on their wives at these places. They are definitely not fantasizing, one has been doing it for decades, most for years. They told me everything. And a happy ending with a bath is not the only thing they offer.
> 
> Yes, that man is an jerk. Although his behavior differs to those men that i had a discussion with, what you said about the double standard still applies to all men. Very true.


The double standard doesn't apply to just men and it definitely doesn't apply to all men. None of the men I know feel that way. I also don't think it is fair or indicative of the male population when the ones you are talking to this about are already doing it. It is cheating and they don't want to see themselves as cheaters so they won't consider it cheating. Just like you say you didn't have an RA. In my book it was one but maybe if I was a cheater and had been receiving happy endings I wouldn't view it in the same light?

Yes that am is a jerk and used him as an example as he is a perfect example of how things shouldn't be. He bragged about their ope. Marriage and how he and she could do as they pleased and was very proud of himself when he was getting conquests. Wen he found out she was getting more attention than he was ( he is definitely not a prize) then he became irate with her for her behavior. It was nothing more than jealousy because he wasn't as desired. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> RGMason
> 
> You asked for help.
> 
> ...


Geez, skimmed the thread and this is the only one that I saw that was actually helpful. OP, I've been where you are and my situation was even worse. Your relationship can recover from this. The advice you got from this poster is a good start. I may post more later if I can find some time this weekend.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

I just wish his wife would post. Because I would have some good advice for her, and it would provide a picture of the future...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pattiroxxi said:


> The point is, men who get happy endings do not consider their wife getting the same treatment performed on her a big deal or cheating.


You don't really believe this, do you? A man would have no problem with his wife getting a massage from a male masseuse who then, at the end, fingers her until she comes?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OP, I do genuinely believe that you are remorseful. I will also give you credit for confessing. You could have simply avoided intimate contact until you were tested. 

My advice is to just give your wife time to process things. There is no guarantee that she will stay. Its really up to her. The only thing you can do is demonstrate to her that you've changed and for the better (this will take a long time). Whatever you do, do not act entitled to another chance. You honestly can't force this. She will talk to you about her feelings when she is ready.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

RGMason said:


> Ladies what should I do to prove I love her, regain her trust, repair our marriage and ease the hurt I have caused?


First of all, don't minimize. Not one shred of it. Imagine your wife saying that she went over to the neighbor's house in her bikini with a bottle of rum and was hanging out in the bedroom with him watching XXX movies and his weiner accidentally fell into her. 

All you can think of is framing it in a way that makes you look better, while she's going to be in a rage about the attempt at manipulating her into saying "Oh, I see - just an accident..."

Don't expect this to happen overnight or in a week, or a month, or even a year. You need to tell her that her feelings are valid and never express impatience with her needing to "get over it" or "dredging up the past". You bought the ticket. You can't just get off the ride. 

*jld* is totally right about the transparency, and if you do regular business trips this is going to require special consideration. Like bringing her. Or establishing some kind of routine where she can't have any doubts about what you are up to.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

turnera said:


> You don't really believe this, do you? A man would have no problem with his wife getting a massage from a male masseuse who then, at the end, fingers her until she comes?


First off, i would not say that people who say they go for a massage to these places really mean sex. Massage at these places is anything sexual that's why it's a brothel. 

And no, i have not yet met a man who would mind. Of course the men i am talking about are men who have been getting the same act performed on them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have NEVER met a man who is ok with his wife getting off by another guy. I think you're full of it. Or else you live in some other country than America, because here, it's not tolerated.



> First off, i would not say that people who say they go for a massage to these places really mean sex.


What do YOU think sex is?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> First off, i would not say that people who say they go for a massage to these places really mean sex. Massage at these places is anything sexual that's why it's a brothel.
> 
> And no, i have not yet met a man who would mind. Of course the men i am talking about are men who have been getting the same act performed on them.


How many men do you know whose wives have gone to brothels to for sex?

Most of those guys say that because it excuses what they are doing and they know that their wife is highly unlikely to want to be sexually satisfied by a female prostitute.

Next time ask those guys if they are ok with their wives going to make prostitutes. Also ask them if their wives actually do it.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

A few things:

1. There are over 7 BILLION people in this world. The men that you know - I don't care if you know 1000 people personally, is not even close to a reliable sample of what most men think. 

1b. Consider the source. The men saying that they'd be okay with their wives getting happy endings (some women actually are starting to), are the ones doing it themselves. Do you have any idea how often I've seen former waywards/current waywards say that they wish their spouse would cheat too - so as to take some of the heat off of them and they wouldn't feel as guilty?! This is no different.

2. If you think these sex-workers are respected, admired, adored by these men, just ask them if they would want their wives, sisters, daughters or mothers working in massage parlors. They likely would say no. There is a reason for that. Being a stripper, porn star or prostitute can pay well. High class hookers can make a large income... but it's not good enough for mommy, wifey or sis.

3. Similarly to point #1, the women that you know are not a reliable sample of the human population. Long before I was privy to infidelity betrayal, I knew what went on in those "massage parlours". One would have to be very sheltered or very naive not to know. TV, Internet, Stand-up comedy, I've heard about it long before infidelity forums.

4. Whether you wanted to reconcile or not, what you did was cheating. You also contradicted yourself when you said you didn't care. If you didn't care anymore then why did you need revenge? Doesn't make sense. 

5. You can't hurt someone the same way they hurt you. The thing is, no matter how many of your husband's friends you jacked off after he cheated on you - it doesn't matter. Your hurts and your experiences and his are not one and the same. I just ate a strawberry. If you have some at home, go grab one, bite into it and tell me what *I* tasted. How it smelled, the emotions I felt eating it, how it felt on my tongue, between my teeth and in my throat as I swallowed it. YOU CAN'T. It was my experience and one you could only suppose is similar to yours and guess was the same but you will never know.

As far as the revenge cheating, it's a different breed of the same animal. Your husband cheated because he wanted to and was being selfish. You did it out of spite and because you were hurting and wanted to teach him a lesson. The motivations were different and the way he felt about it, (perhaps he thinks that you were being vindictive or maybe he felt relief like in point #2 that he wasn't the only bad guy) compared to how you felt when he betrayed you are different.

6. Those "friends" of your husband sound pretty skeevy. Not only because they were disloyal to your husband by letting you "cheat" on him with them but because they took advantage of you. I'm assuming you don't make it a habit to give hand-jobs all over town but you did it here because you were hurting. It sounds dysfunctional and more self-destructive than revenge IMO but if it made you feel better... I guess... Still, not the kind of men I'd want to associate with nonetheless jerk off.


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## walkedon22 (May 26, 2014)

My view is this: you confessed only because of the fear of the std. I dont feel you have the true remorse it takes to even begin to help your wife. I talk from experience. My husband does not have the remorse he needs either, and I can promise you this: BECAUSE he will not level with me about everything, I will never be able to trust him or respect him again. Not that I havent tried. I have tried for 13 years, to only see him doing the same things. People who fall into the rabbit hole, seem to fall deeper and deeper, unless they truly experience remorse. It takes the kind of remorse you would feel toward Christ Jesus. You can attack me on this, but it is true.
Without confession, there is no possible way of forgiveness. You are keeping your wife in bondage to not being able to forgive. Even though I have tried and would say that I have forgiven mine, I am only grasping. I am not free to forgive him until he truly confesses. This does not mean that you can just wrap it up with one Im sorry or asking forgiveness. Her mind will slowly go nuts and she will die inside until you confess to everything. Not knowing is always worse than knowing. At least with knowing, you are being a man and giving her the choice to do what she needs to do. Until you do this, she wont believe a word from your mouth.
Also with every word that comes from your mouth, as you make up excuses for what you have done, you are hurting yourself even more to her. You will lose your wife, even if she stays with you, youll lose her forever. You cannot make up excuses, and until you confess and really have that horrible sorrow, you dont mean that you are really sorry. And all you are doing is feeding the demons by making up reasons. There is NEVER any reason to do anything that would hurt your spouse. What is that? It is anything that you would not do in front of your wife. Thats wrong. A man knows when he is doing something that would hurt her or she wouldn;t approve of.


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