# NOW I get it. Too late for an old dog... ?



## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

First post. Married 14 years, 2 kids, we're both near 50 years old. Separated since May. 

I'm struggling with the issue of "is it too late; has she REALLY moved on, and how do I find out"? I've not ready let go but don't want false hope. Maybe I'm blind to the current reality?

I moved out after discovering my wife was in an EA for almost 6 months. My knee-jerk reaction was to immediately file for divorce. No talk of separation, reconciliation, nada. I lobbed the nuclear bomb as a way of showing her how much I hurt. I didn't necessarily want a divorce, but didn't have the smarts to consider other alternatives. She wasn't shocked by this, as we had been in counseling for years with no real success. 

After I filed, we had long, honest talks about our relationship. She admitted wanting a separation last Fall, but didn't have the courage to tell me. She also refused to end the EA because it kept her from trying to repair our marriage. She had given up, and was afraid a reconciliation would be a waste of time. At the same time, though, she admitted feelings for me and her decision may not be the right one.

We both have emotional issues and a son with high-functioning autism. It's be a challenge to say the least. She wants a lot of attention, to feel special, loved, attractive. A lot. It borders on a compulsion. I didn't give her enough, and didn't try very hard. 

Her stated goal of the separation was/is to "have fun", flirt and date other men; to find out if her overwhelming need to feel special and attractive was based on a psychological need that even I can't fill, or if it was simply that she wasn't getting enough from me. She admits it could be an irrational need that will have a tragic ending for her. Her therapist, I believe, is encouraging her to explore other relationships rather than confront the issue.

I reacted with extreme jealousy. I secretly read her emails, texts and monitored her movements. When I discovered something that appeared to be salacious, I sent her angry and bitter text messages, essentially calling her a *****. Just a week ago, she was sharing "phone sex" texts with another man. It hurt, but at the same time 

So - She's smart, successful, attractive, fun, caring. I could have treated her better, but didn't. Now I'm suffering. I'm alone in an apartment. Thinking how my actions contributed to her need to find attention somewhere else. I'm seeing a therapist for my issues.

I feel I've "seen the light", the error of my ways, and don't want to let her go. I sense she may feel the same way, but I'm afraid to ask. I'd hate for her to lie, give me false hope, in order to make me feel better. I don't want to go through this pain again. So I'm continuing the divorce process as a way of controlling the situation. My lawyer is ready to start pushing for the end zone. 

So - do I confess it to her, do a 180 (I've tried but am not good at it), or take the hard road and move on?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Well, the first mistake you made was moving out right away. And you'll never, ever be able to reconcile while she continues seeing other men. Also quit blaming yourself so much. No, you haven't been perfect, but cheating is 100 percent on her. Others will give you more advice. Too bad you didn't find this forum earlier. This is a goldmine for advice.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

If it were me, I'd let the dust settle some more before any decisions are rushed into...2 months isn't that long of a separation, emotions are still frayed, rational thoughts are needed, not emotional decisions...it took us a year into our separation before either of us were ready to start healing our relationship...we had to fix ourselves first...

keep minimal contact, and work on your self...have some fun too!

That said, I would set up some boundaries with her and her other "relationships"...no physical contact...so on, thats up to you...if she doesn't agreem it might be time to move on...


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

Patience is not my strength. Moving out so soon was not wise. Filing before separation was not wise. I'm filled with "shoulda-coulda-woulda" about the past 3 months. My fear is my actions have had the opposite effect; that I've encouraged her to do the things she's doing. Heck, I would likely do the same if I were in her shoes.

I really think the cheating is rooted in a psychological issue; low self-esteem, etc, so I'm convinced she can be "cured" and I can overlook it all. I also think it's likely I'm kidding myself.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

DjF said:


> That said, I would set up some boundaries with her and her other "relationships"...no physical contact...so on, thats up to you...if she doesn't agreem it might be time to move on...


She won't agree to it. In fact, I caught her making out with another man last week. Her initial response was shock, shame, a promise to "make things right" with us. After seeing her therapist, her attitude changed to "stop spying on me, my private life is private, let's set boundaries".

As I type this response, I'm really questioning why this is even a tough decision for me.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

whether you divorce her today or 2 months from know, a year from now, the "shoulda-coulda-woulda" issues will still be there...rushing into anything at this point and time will just add to those issues, again, if it were me, I'd let the dust settle...


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

DjF said:


> whether you divorce her today or 2 months from know, a year from now, the "shoulda-coulda-woulda" issues will still be there...rushing into anything at this point and time will just add to those issues, again, if it were me, I'd let the dust settle...


Great advice. I know this is the right course of action. My problem is holding back when my emotions take hold. I need to use the time to work on it and other issues.

Thanks.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

DjF said:


> ...if it were me, I'd let the dust settle...


Thoughts on putting the divorce process on hold? My lawyer is a pit-bull and wants to put it on the fast-track. I hate funding her current lifestyle, and she needs to realize the economic reality of her decision. 

We've got a lot of debt, and selling the house is a big issue. She wants to stay in it for the kids, I likely need to sell it to pay debt and have $ to buy my own house.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

WoeIsMe said:


> Great advice. I know this is the right course of action. My problem is holding back when my emotions take hold. I need to use the time to work on it and other issues.
> 
> Thanks.


I was in your shoes when my wife left me, I wanted things resolved asap...my wife accused me of wanting her back because I hated change, I told her that once she left, things had already changed and would never be the same...

when you feel those emotions take hold, go work out, go for a walk...start a journal, read the Bible (if you are so inclined)...take that emotional upheaval and make something positive out of it...


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

and I know about the debt...I'm 10k in the hole trying to keep a float long enough for my son to finish high school...then I might liqudate everything if she isn't back yet (but it looks like she will be).


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

WoeIsMe said:


> Patience is not my strength. Moving out so soon was not wise. Filing before separation was not wise. I'm filled with "shoulda-coulda-woulda" about the past 3 months. My fear is my actions have had the opposite effect; that I've encouraged her to do the things she's doing. Heck, I would likely do the same if I were in her shoes.
> 
> *I really think the cheating is rooted in a psychological issue; low self-esteem, etc,* so I'm convinced she can be "cured" and I can overlook it all. I also think it's likely I'm kidding myself.


I suspect that you might be over-analyzing why she cheated. Although I concede that it could be a psychological issue, I'll bet it's more likely that she met somebody, there probably was inappopropriate behavior where boundaries were crossed, the dopamine (feel-good chemical--same thing drug addicts experience) kicked in, and she was off to the races. It happens all the time, and can happen to anyone. Meanwhile you're left racking your brain wondering what YOU did wrong, and what's wrong with HER. 

She's addicted to the "in-love, heart-fluttering feeling" so she won't give up her affair partner(s?) In comparison, you're old news to her. She wants the new and exciting, but doesn't realize that this will also become "old news" eventually. 

For reconciliation to happen, she can't date others. You two can talk about "feelings" until the cows come home, but there's no chance of winning her back unless she drops the other guys.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Woe - not trying to cast blame on you when I say that there is a big difference between you seeing the light and you proving to her that you have changed.

What she sees in you more than anything else is that you dropped the divorce bomb on her, you knew what she needed but didn't try very hard, and you spied on her and went through her personal stuff.

I only say this to agree with others that you need some time to reinvent yourself in her eyes, and trying to move too quickly or worrying too much about what she's doing right now is not in your best interest.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

Cubby said:


> For reconciliation to happen, she can't date others. You two can talk about "feelings" until the cows come home, but there's no chance of winning her back unless she drops the other guys.


We spoke a few weeks ago about boundaries and expectations. She told me of her need to flirt with other men and feel attractive. She asked if it was ok to kiss other men. My reaction was "no no no'! She clearly violated my wishes when she made out with the guy last week.

What boundaries do you think are appropriate in a separation?

Dating ok, kissing ok, no sex? What if you don't trust the other?


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Woe - not trying to cast blame on you when I say that there is a big difference between you seeing the light and you proving to her that you have changed.
> 
> What she sees in you more than anything else is that you dropped the divorce bomb on her, you knew what she needed but didn't try very hard, and you spied on her and went through her personal stuff.
> 
> I only say this to agree with others that you need some time to reinvent yourself in her eyes, and trying to move too quickly or worrying too much about what she's doing right now is not in your best interest.


I agree 100%. My attempts to bring her back have pushed her away.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

Just got a call from her. Asked if I'd like to join her and my daughter for lunch. It's another example of how she pulls me back with kindness and affection. The cynical me thinks it's because she wants me around as the cash-cow/safety net when her newly-found relationships fizzle.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Only pay for your meal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I'm sorry dude but your wife is making out with other men and not giving a crap about how you feel and you're wondering if you should go ahead with the divorce?!!

Really?!


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

synthetic said:


> I'm sorry dude but your wife is making out with other men and not giving a crap about how you feel and you're wondering if you should go ahead with the divorce?!!
> 
> Really?!


I know it makes no sense. 

I feel that I shoulder some responsibility for her actions (yes, she's to blame too) because I've done nothing but send signals and messages to her that indicate I'm the same guy that didn't show her enough love in the past, and that I'm not willing to do the work for a reconciliation. 

That's the "old dog" in me. I know I'm capable to becoming a better, more loving partner, and want to do the work. But right now I want to prove it to her, not someone else.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Woe - not trying to cast blame on you when I say that there is a big difference between you seeing the light and you proving to her that you have changed.
> 
> What she sees in you more than anything else is that you dropped the divorce bomb on her, you knew what she needed but didn't try very hard, and you spied on her and went through her personal stuff.
> 
> I only say this to agree with others that you need some time to reinvent yourself in her eyes, and trying to move too quickly or worrying too much about what she's doing right now is not in your best interest.


I totally disagree with Acorn on this. Why are you blaming the victim? 

While the OP may have contributed to SOME of the issues in the marriage, he shares NONE of the responsibility for his wife's decision to go outside the marriage! That's all on her! 

For some people, ANY type of cheating is a deal breaker and that's what his wife did. She cheated and there is little doubt in my mind that her affair would have gone physical had it not been discovered. This is evidenced by her continual desire to hook up with multiple men and not even consider giving her husband a chance to (in your words) "prove that he has changed"

Actually, why shouldn't she have to prove to him that she isn't out wh0ring around anymore???

Let's stop kidding ourselves about the "spying" aspect of this too. Her sneaking around on her husband was OK though? Her LYING to her husband was OK? Please.

The only point I agree with is that the OP does need to improve on himself so he can be an even better partner for his next partner


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WoeIsMe said:


> Just got a call from her. Asked if I'd like to join her and my daughter for lunch. It's another example of how she pulls me back with kindness and affection. The cynical me thinks it's because she wants me around as the cash-cow/safety net when her newly-found relationships fizzle.


That's called "Plan B"


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Toffer said:


> I totally disagree with Acorn on this. Why are you blaming the victim?
> 
> While the OP may have contributed to SOME of the issues in the marriage, he shares NONE of the responsibility for his wife's decision to go outside the marriage! That's all on her!
> 
> ...


I think if you re-read you will see that OP has "seen the light", he doesn't want to let go, and wants her back.

HE wants HER back.

I have a feeling in time he will come to believe that he deserves better in a marriage. But for now, if the stated goal is to get her back, I stand by the advice of improving and showing her that he's a changed man.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

synthetic said:


> I'm sorry dude but your wife is making out with other men and not giving a crap about how you feel and you're wondering if you should go ahead with the divorce?!!
> 
> Really?!


_*Wonder where he'd get an idea like that?*_

***********************************
Today, 02:44 PM #661 (permalink)
synthetic
Member

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 854
Re: I should just divorce her
vi,

Today I'm having a tough time understanding her cold demeanor yesterday. 

She's showing no vulnerability. Is she really that strong? Does she really feel nothing? Was the whole marriage a lie? WTF is going on here?


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

WoeIsMe said:


> What boundaries do you think are appropriate in a separation?
> 
> Dating ok, kissing ok, no sex? What if you don't trust the other?


I see people talk about this....but ultimately in a separation no such boundaries are enforcable (as it sounds like you found out). Therefore, it's best not to even try to make them, IMHO, as it's a waste of time.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Agree with worrieddad. How the fvck do you know what your ex does when you are not around. No way to know. I think u should move on. And dont kidto yourself I bet you were a better husbsnd than you giving yourself credit 4.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I think if you re-read you will see that OP has "seen the light", he doesn't want to let go, and wants her back.
> 
> HE wants HER back.
> 
> I have a feeling in time he will come to believe that he deserves better in a marriage. But for now, if the stated goal is to get her back, I stand by the advice of improving and showing her that he's a changed man.


Acorn,

While I agree that he wants her back and in order to achieve that he may need to change some of his behaviors, what behaviors will SHE change? I dunno, how about STOP STEPPING OUTSIDE OF THE MARRIAGE?? That's as nice as I can put it,

Again, your post reads as if you're placing a good portion of the balme for HER AFFAIRS and INDISCRETIONS on HIM!

He is in NO WAY responsible for her decision to seek validation from other males. That's all on her! She could have chosen to leave the marriage first but she didn't and now it looks like she's keeping him around as the fall back plan!


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Toffer said:


> Acorn,
> 
> While I agree that he wants her back and in order to achieve that he may need to change some of his behaviors, what behaviors will SHE change? I dunno, how about STOP STEPPING OUTSIDE OF THE MARRIAGE?? That's as nice as I can put it,
> 
> ...


Look, OP is on record as saying he believes he shoulders some of the blame for the mess he's in, he wants her back, but he's not sure if it's too late. That's what I'm going on. If his wife were here, I'd tell her a few choice things too, but she's not, so...

My advice is simply this: If you know some things were causing her pain, fix them. See what happens. He can't control the stuff you are going on about, but he can control himself.

Also, at the risk of sounding overly sympathetic to the wife, trying to convince a woman that you have changed and want to be loving in ways you have never been before probably will not work while a pit bull lawyer is pushing full throttle toward a divorce that you filed. Either slow down and work on yourself, or file and be done with it. My opinion anyway.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Look, OP is on record as saying he believes he shoulders some of the blame for the mess he's in, he wants her back, but he's not sure if it's too late. That's what I'm going on. If his wife were here, I'd tell her a few choice things too, but she's not, so...
> 
> My advice is simply this: If you know some things were causing her pain, fix them. See what happens. He can't control the stuff you are going on about, but he can control himself.
> 
> Also, at the risk of sounding overly sympathetic to the wife, trying to convince a woman that you have changed and want to be loving in ways you have never been before probably will not work while a pit bull lawyer is pushing full throttle toward a divorce that you filed. Either slow down and work on yourself, or file and be done with it. My opinion anyway.


I guess that's my issue with your postings. You come off too sympathetic to the wife and it seems to shift some of the blame on the OP. He doesn't need ANY of that blame for her affair. The OP's position that he MAY share some of the responsibility for his wife's affair is a very typical Betrayed Spouse response. That doesn't mean it's right though! Any betrayed spouse (short the ones who are truly physically and menatlly abusive) shares NONE of the responsibility for their partner's conscious decision to engage with someone outside the marriage! PERIOD 

Sure, he shares responsibility for the issues within the marriage and he is the only one who can address them to try and repair the marriage (if he chooses to do so) or improve himself for his next relationship.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Toffer said:


> I guess that's my issue with your postings. You come off too sympathetic to the wife and it seems to shift some of the blame on the OP.


The way I read it, they were in an unhappy marriage for a long time before the affair, and neither were really meeting each other's needs. She threw an affair in the mix, he moved straight to D, and here we are.

The reason I can't get behind your posts is because they seem to be based on the idea that she needs to work her tail off to restore the marriage to where it was pre-affair - which normally might be great advice but it wasn't working pre-affair and hadn't been for a long time. Do you honestly think someone surrounded in affair fog is going to want to do a ton of work to restore a loveless marriage? Of course not. This is just reality.

I'm not blaming OP for the loveless marriage or for the affair or anything else. I'm just saying the marriage was loveless and there aren't going to be many folks, male or female, that want to go back to something like that.

He said he wanted her back, he saw the light and thought he could be a better partner, so I'm encouraging him to prove it. Don't do it to atone for the affair. Do it because he saw the light and wants to be a better partner. See what happens! The worst thing that can happen is that he can apply his newly learned skills to the next relationship.

There is no blame.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Acorn said:


> The way I read it, they were in an unhappy marriage for a long time before the affair, and neither were really meeting each other's needs.
> 
> I agree with you here
> 
> ...


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who has replied. You've given me a lot to think about. Here's an update:

We spoke yesterday, and I told her that I was going to slow things down, not rush the divorce, and use the coming months to concentrate on "me", and not on "us". Since I skipped the separation stage and went straight to divorce, I want to treat it like a separation and take time to think about where we were, how we got there, and what I need to do to be a better person. She expressed surprise, gratitude and relief.

Fast-forward to this morning. I ran by the house to grab some stuff and we talked. I told her that among the reasons for slowing down was that I still have feelings for her, and I want to use the time to see if the feelings strengthen or fade in time. But, I'll also use the time to decide if I can forgive her overwhelming need to flirt and get attention from other men, and her recent kissing/texting/dating. I told her that I'd love to revisit talking about boundaries, but I also understood the genie was out of the bottle.

Her response? 1) Until yesterday, she assumed we were getting divorced and she had started a "new life" and it's not fair for me to expect her to stop (she's now dating the guy who kissed her a couple weeks ago - I didn't tell her I know, but I do). 2) She was frustrate that I changed my mind, again, and expect her to immediately go along with "my" decision. She said my behavior was "typical", and she expressed being "fed up".

She then told me that she needs more money for babysitters. She explained that the kids are home in the summer and she needs more sitters when she goes to work. BUT - she's actually working fewer days this summer because her therapist told her to spend more time with our kids during the separation. Huh? I bet she's using sitters to watch the kids while she goes out with her new boyfriend.

I came to the realization that she's gone. She's dating, possible sleeping with another man, and she LIKES it. I think it's time for me to grow a pair.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

WoeIsMe said:


> I came to the realization that she's gone. She's dating, possible sleeping with another man, and she LIKES it. I think it's time for me to grow a pair.


Good for you. Make the changes for you now, and forget about her. You deserve so much better.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

forget my earlier advice...go do what you need to do!!!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Definitely time to 180 her azz hard and fast.

Do not communicate with her at all unless it's regarding the kids. Tie rockets onto the divorce process and go full steam. 

Start to work on yourself and find a woman who will be good to you and your kids and can keep her skirt on!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WoeIsMe said:


> Thanks to everyone who has replied. You've given me a lot to think about. Here's an update:
> 
> We spoke yesterday, and I told her that I was going to slow things down, not rush the divorce, and use the coming months to concentrate on "me", and not on "us". Since I skipped the separation stage and went straight to divorce, I want to treat it like a separation and take time to think about where we were, how we got there, and what I need to do to be a better person. She expressed surprise, gratitude and relief.
> 
> ...


And she wants money for daycare while she bangs posOM.

Do not pay her to leave you.

Shut it down.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

I don't know about the rest of you, but doing a 180 is really hard. I go a couple days with no contact, then she sends a really nice/funny text which makes me think she's coming around. Then I borrow her car over the weekend, turn on the GPS and see the last visited location is this guy's house. It's all I can do to avoid sending her some nasty messages. Grrrrr.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WoeIsMe said:


> I don't know about the rest of you, but doing a 180 is really hard. I go a couple days with no contact, then she sends a really nice/funny text which makes me think she's coming around. Then I borrow her car over the weekend, turn on the GPS and see the last visited location is this guy's house. It's all I can do to avoid sending her some nasty messages. Grrrrr.


You're "Plan B"

Stop borrowing her car.

Stop responding to her texts.

And, stop hoping her "crumbs of love" mean something significant. When/if she owns her behavior, you will not be able to miss it.


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## WoeIsMe (Jun 19, 2012)

I have an update:

I recently discovered my wife is engaged in a wild sexual relationship with the guy she met at the bar. I read some texts on her phone (actually, the phone is in my name and I pay the bills, so I don't feel too guilty) and was SHOCKED at the stuff they talk about. Phone sex, kinky sex, sex in public places, sex in every position and orifice. She was a prude when I met her and was a wet fish in bed. Now she's a nympho on steroids. 

So I've come to my senses and can't wait to get rid of her. 

We have a lot of debt and a hefty mortgage. A few months ago I was willing to work with a mediator to find a solution for her to stay in the house. Now, because she got involved with another man so quickly, I want to sell it, pay off our massive debts, get on with my life and stick it to her for disrespecting me so greatly. 

I'm now thinking that mediation would be a big waste of time. She talks a lot about expecting me to pay maintenance. However, she's a lawyer who has been working part-time for the past 12 years since our daughter was born. Now, instead of spending her time raising our child, she spends it with her new boyfriend and hanging out with her girlfriends. So I have no intention of paying maintenance, and I think a judge might frown on a fellow attorney who is able to work full-time but chooses not to.

It's going to get ugly.

It's interesting to read my earlier posts. What a difference a couple months make.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Don't confront her with what you know. Get in touch with a lawyer and an accountant to start planning on how to divorce her with the least amount of financial impact on yourself.

Also check how much adultery makes a difference in divorce settlement/alimony, and if PI would be a better choice to provide evidence to a court.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

:iagree:

get the phone/text records if you can. Just another tool in your future toolbelt.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Woe,

I wish I could tell you I'm surprised.

I've posted here for a couple of years.

A constant theme is from men who are being "nice" and trying to be "good husbands". The sexual part of their relationship dries up and they think that's kind of "normal", but they'd like it back.

Once they get to work on things, they discover just what you did.

The woman that claimed she "wasn't into sex" or really didn't like sex or thought sex was "gross" is hanging from the rafters with some alpha dog they met somewhere.

It's difficult not to take it personally. But, it's clearly not the truth that women aren't into sex. They may not be into sex with their husbands... for whatever reason.

But, we are all sexual beings.

Do not leave this board until you learn about yourself. While you may be done with her, you have not yet learned what she was sent to teach you about you.

That accumulated wisdom resides here if you wish to unlock it.


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