# I'm tired of this.



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

So, we are doing really well... but, last night he came home a little later, called, said he had been talking to our lake home neighbor. I said no problem... came home and his eyes looked bloodshot and we talked and I said, "by the way, where did you see this guy?" He admitted he went to an open house where there was a bar and the guy was there, had a couple drinks, talked about our lake home situation. I know the group he went with is mixed gender and we have this agreement (kind of) of letting the other one know if we go to a bar. Thing is, I had to ask him where he met him, he didn't volunteer it. But, he stayed only for a half hour and said he knew I'd be upset but he wanted to talk to this guy. I asked this am if he would have told me where he was if I hadn't asked and he said he would have. I'm thinking maybe.Then he said why is this different, I have mixed gender appointments in my office or out at meetings all day long. I said well the alcohol thing is uncomfortable for me. (and he met one of the OW at one of these mixer things) And, he said (he always says this) you don't understand my job - I said I understand it, I just don't like it. I asked how he would feel if my AP worked next door to me (one of his does)? He said yeah, it would be hard. I said I'm giving as much as I can here. This kind of thing does not help matters. 

I wish I was more secure but I guess I'm not. I wish he could just go live his life and me not worry but I do. I guess the ultimate is that I WOULD NEVER DO THIS, as a former wayward wife. And I don't understand why he does. His lack of empathy for me is appaling, IMO. His choices are so different than mine I just don't get it. His job dictates that I guess he be out and about in the community and I hate that. But he doesnt' HAVE to be in this group. 
I'm sure things are fine and that he's not cheating... I should just be ok with all this. But I hate it. And when he does things like this I detach. 
ugh help.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Time to have established boundaries on what is viewed as inappropriate and what hurts you. He needs this completely voiced and understood where to draw the line. It's hard to reastablish trust and security if you feel you have to question to gain information. You shouldn't have to pull out information to be told the truth. I can see why you are left feeling how you're feeling.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A kind of agreement?

What is it in full?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> he met *one of the* OW at one of these mixer things


How many OW have there been?

Mixed gender events with alcohol are a problem when there has been past infidelity and the spouse is attending alone. Why does your husband not invite you to attend with him? Are they work required functions or more social in nature, meaning he does that really have to attend?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

It was just kind of understood. I always let him know before the fact, never after. He had been as well. Perhaps he didn't think it was that big of a deal. But he said he KNEW I'd be upset but he stayed anyway, to talk to that guy, because that would help us up at the lake. He arranged for this guy to bring up jet skis. So I guess I should be ok with it.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> How many OW have there been?
> 
> Mixed gender events with alcohol are a problem when there has been past infidelity and the spouse is attending alone. Why does your husband not invite you to attend with him? Are they work required functions or more social in nature, meaning he does that really have to attend?


That was my question: Your H has had more than one affair?
And you have had an affair?
Your home must be filled with angst and suspicion?
Do you like living like that?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I hate when these things trigger us and make us feel bad. I’m sorry you’re feeling this way today.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He's had two after my one. Mine was 6 years ago. His were 4. It's not a trust thing, it's more of an empathy thing. Don't do that **** so I never even HAVE to worry. 
Is it part of his job- kind of. He doesn't HAVE to do it but he probably should...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> It was just kind of understood. I always let him know before the fact, never after. He had been as well. Perhaps he didn't think it was that big of a deal. But he said he KNEW I'd be upset but he stayed anyway, to talk to that guy, because that would help us up at the lake. He arranged for this guy to bring up jet skis. So I guess I should be ok with it.


I don't get it. He knew he was going to the open house, but did not tell you? Did he know this guy was going to be at the open house, did not tell you because you would get mad, but he had to go to arrange the lake house thing? Does he not have a PHONE to call the guy? H's story is confusing and maybe not completely truthful. 

Well, maybe this situation could have been avoided with an explicit VERBAL agreement, not a "just kind of understood" agreement. 

BTW, when a guy says he had a "couple" of drinks, it is always more than 2.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> He's had two after my one. Mine was 6 years ago. His were 4. It's not a trust thing, it's more of an empathy thing. Don't do that **** so I never even HAVE to worry.
> Is it part of his job- kind of. He doesn't HAVE to do it but he probably should...


It is a trust thing, don't fool yourself. 

You have both had affairs, so you both have the capacity for them. You need to have well established boundaries. A simple one would be, you don't go out drinking unless you are together. That's a pretty simple one. Don't leave it 'understood', that leads to boundaries being pushed. Make it explicit. Say to him, "because of our past, we cannot go out drinking unless we are together."

If it's important for his job, you meet him out. If it's not that important, then he can skip it. I'm not sure what his job is, but I can't think of one that 'requires' you to drink socially. 

Make your boundaries mutual, you hold each other to the same standards. 

If he doesn't agree, well, you are just setting yourselves up for a lot of future hurt. Why keep up the charade?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He had a ribbon cutting there but didn't know (he said) that there would be alcohol. It started at 5:30, he was home by 6:30. I'm sure he had 2-3... But it sounded like he just talked to these guys, they are beer distributors, and I'm guessing he didn't know they'd be there... Although I'm not sure if I believe he knew that it was s bar opening thing, at a hockey arena.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Yes it needs to be explicit. 
I'm not opposed to him having 1-2 drinks and socializing with the guys. He does this. I do this. Not excited about mixed company. Unacceptable to not give the other spouse the heads up before you go though..
He's the president of a bank. He's the "face" of the bank so to speak, which I hate. he did a commercial for a friend and I heard from My hairstylist that her friends went gaga over him. I was pissed. He didn't HAVE to do the commercial but... There's the lack of empathy thing.., 
And I guess I should just be ok having a hot husband...


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> Yes it needs to be explicit.
> I'm not opposed to him having 1-2 drinks and socializing with the guys. He does this. I do this. Not excited about mixed company. Unacceptable to not give the other spouse the heads up before you go though..
> He's the president of a bank. He's the "face" of the bank so to speak, which I hate. he did a commercial for a friend and I heard from My hairstylist that her friends went gaga over him. I was pissed. He didn't HAVE to do the commercial but... There's the lack of empathy thing..,
> And I guess I should just be ok having a hot husband...


OP, speaking from my experience as a serial wayward your husband has no business going to bars without you. Its asking for trouble. If he has any hope of staying faithful he will need to make lifestyle changes. He needs to understand that he has lost your trust, and that based on his past he really shouldn't even trust himself. The only way a serial cheater can quit cheating is to remove themselves from risky environments. If he keeps doing the same old things, expect the same results.

Like your husband I am also a "boss". The cool thing about being a "boss" is you pretty much get to set when people meet with you. It was relatively easy for me to start shifting meetings from dinner and drinks to lunches or coffee. People will be flexible with you for the most part when you are the "boss". It made a huge difference as far keeping me from making bone headed decisions. I ran into problems when I went away from that. I thought I could handle it. I couldn't.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> OP, speaking from my experience as a serial wayward your husband has no business going to bars without you. Its asking for trouble. If he has any hope of staying faithful he will need to make lifestyle changes. He needs to understand that he has lost your trust, and that based on his past he really shouldn't even trust himself. The only way a serial cheater can quit cheating is to remove themselves from risky environments. If he keeps doing the same old things, expect the same results.
> 
> Like your husband I am also a "boss". The cool thing about being a "boss" is you pretty much get to set when people meet with you. It was relatively easy for me to start shifting meetings from dinner and drinks to lunches or coffee. People will be flexible with you for the most part when you are the "boss". It made a huge difference as far keeping me from making bone headed decisions. I ran into problems when I went away from that. I thought I could handle it. I couldn't.


I don't think of him as a serial cheater. We were married for 25 years before I cheated and then he had two RA. He has been able to maintain fidelity before and since his affairs. 

That said, I do agree that drinking needs to be with the spouse. When I go out I meet my girlfriend for an hour (at about 5 pm) and then he joins us at 6 or so. This has worked very well. I get my girl time and he is relieved of anxiety of me being out there alone because he is going too.

I'm not going to hang out at business functions, even though he has invited me to some. He's not the boss of this group rather, he is one of all the bosses that get together to celebrate other business openings with ribbon cuttings. 
What I don't like is him telling me about the drinking AFTER the fact. Here's what should have happened: he calls when he gets there and says, "hey, I'm here at a ribbon cutting, they're serving alcohol, I'm going to have 1-2 while I talk to (lake home neighbor) and then I'll be home at 6:30." 
I would also like this: for him to do his job but not be as out there as he needs to be. In fact, I wish he would quit this stupid group. Assign it to someone else. Make less money if you have to.

But is this reasonable of me? He could ask me to quit my workout club or anything like that. I mean, where is the line here? Controlling each other, letting each other just go live their life- I'm so freaking tired of all of this. Where is the happy medium? Can there be a normal after all we've been through?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> But is this reasonable of me? He could ask me to quit my workout club or anything like that. I mean, where is the line here? Controlling each other, letting each other just go live their life- I'm so freaking tired of all of this. Where is the happy medium? Can there be a normal after all we've been through?


Controlling is when you want to tell him what he can and can't do on a daily basis.

What you want to do is create boundaries for the safety of your relationship. Boundaries are set with mutual agreement. It becomes controlling if you don't articulate what they are and call him out after he violates it. You need to discuss them with him prior. The two of you agree on what is mutually agreeable, then you stick to it. If after agreeing to a boundary he breaks it, and gets angry at you for calling him out, then he is the controlling one.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't think of him as a serial cheater. We were married for 25 years before I cheated and then he had two RA. He has been able to maintain fidelity before and since his affairs.
> 
> That said, I do agree that drinking needs to be with the spouse. When I go out I meet my girlfriend for an hour (at about 5 pm) and then he joins us at 6 or so. This has worked very well. I get my girl time and he is relieved of anxiety of me being out there alone because he is going too.
> 
> ...


Just because YOU don’t like that he’s the public face of his business or that he does the social thing with the community does not mean he should have to give it up. That kind of thing might be something that he enjoys, part of his personality, what he likes to do. 

If that is the case, then yes I do think it’s unreasonable to ask him not to do it. We can’t ask spouses to give up things that are part of their make-up, who they enjoy being. For instance, my sister dated a guy who played the bass in a band. They weren’t a well known band, but they did open for some big names such as Poison and some other big 90’s hair bands. He traveled all over on tour with these bands, this was his life when he met her. She wasn’t comfortable with the “groupies” and demanded he leave the band. He was 40 years old and had done this for 15 years of his life. Know what happened? He resented her for the rest of their relationship She took a part of him away. Same with my husband. He was a star football player in high school. Played in college on scholarship. Watches every game on TV, it’s his passion. He now coaches high school. I don’t LIKE that he’s gone a lot for practice, every Friday night for games, Saturday mornings for tapes, etc. but I would never DREAM of telling him he couldn’t do it. I would be asking him to not be who he IS.

Having said all that, that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be boundaries. That there can’t be rules that should be followed. I think that’s what’s more important to be focused upon. You may have to accept that he has to be this involved with the community, and turn off the switch of “I don’t like it!” But that doesn’t mean that rules and boundaries can’t be agreed upon and if broken, there are consequences.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Argh! I'll accept it But I won't like it. 
I just have no patience left. None.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

And some of my anger is at myself for staying, and that's why I keep picking away at him...


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Just throwing this out there...did we independently verify he saw and was socializing with your lake house neighbor? Would it be possible to do so?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> And some of my anger is at myself for staying, and that's why I keep picking away at him...


I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all, I'm genuinely curious. 

Why do you say you're angry for staying? You cheated 6 years ago, him 4. If were being childish, you "started it" lol. 

Again, I'm not being disrespectful.

I would think id be more willing to forgive an RA. Not that it makes it hurt any less by any means. I guess I would just have some sense of "were even"? 

I would feel hypocritical if I had an affair and then left when he had one. 

Can you explain further?

Again, not being mean, this dynamic of the revenge affair is intriguing me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I can understand one.
Not 2. 
And no affair is really understandable. 

I sure he saw neighbor, from all the details he told me.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I can understand one.
> Not 2.
> And no affair is really understandable.
> 
> I sure he saw neighbor, from all the details he told me.


Ahhh so it's the double whammy?

Please understand I'm not saying that an RA is right. No affair is right (I'm a WS myself). I was trying to understand the dynamic is all.

I would forgive an affair. I've known this long before I ever did what I did. My husband and I had talked about it before. I'd often told him I could forgive once. I fully believe that some people are capable of having an affair, realizing it was a mistake, and changing. Anything after that is a full blown disrespectful choice and that's when it would cross the line with me as unforgivable.

Do you think you'd be having a better time if it was just once? Do you feel that you're obligated to stay because "you did it first" so you would feel hypocritical leaving?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Yes. I stay because I know I caused his pain. And I love him. But there can be no more crap.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I sure he saw neighbor, from all the details he told me.


Not exactly independently verified. But I hope you are right, as long as you trust him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I do trust that he saw him.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> Just because YOU don’t like that he’s the public face of his business or that he does the social thing with the community does not mean he should have to give it up. That kind of thing might be something that he enjoys, part of his personality, what he likes to do.
> 
> If that is the case, then yes I do think it’s unreasonable to ask him not to do it. We can’t ask spouses to give up things that are part of their make-up, who they enjoy being. For instance, my sister dated a guy who played the bass in a band. They weren’t a well known band, but they did open for some big names such as Poison and some other big 90’s hair bands. He traveled all over on tour with these bands, this was his life when he met her. She wasn’t comfortable with the “groupies” and demanded he leave the band. He was 40 years old and had done this for 15 years of his life. Know what happened? He resented her for the rest of their relationship She took a part of him away. Same with my husband. He was a star football player in high school. Played in college on scholarship. Watches every game on TV, it’s his passion. He now coaches high school. I don’t LIKE that he’s gone a lot for practice, every Friday night for games, Saturday mornings for tapes, etc. but I would never DREAM of telling him he couldn’t do it. I would be asking him to not be who he IS.


I hate to say this but I completely disagree with you. It really is all about choices and what's important to you. The bottom line is, at the end of the day, if your marriage is important to you. You will make the choices necessary to save it. To me if you choose your career over your spouse, it simply means that your spouse wasn't your number one priority.

The band reference you mentioned really isn't an apples to apples comparison, in my opinion. A bank President has a lot more flexibility to do whatever he wants. Speaking as a man, if a man loves you. He'll do whatever it takes to keep you. Even if it means changing careers. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad guy if he refuses to make lifestyle changes. But it does say that you are not his number one priority. If the OP is ok with that than thats fine.

As a male serial wayward, you have to make a choice at some point about what matters most. Do you want to keep your life and the one you love, or...do you want to be a playboy? I know the OP says she does not consider her husband a serial, but the fact that he cheated once and did not care enough about consequences the second time says otherwise.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You shot your marriage in the head and he followed up with a double tap to the chest.

Maybe you did too much damage to the marriage but he was too scared to admit it.

His actions do not show a recovery after your affair. The opposite.

You both are probably hanging onto the corpse of your marriage for the wrong reasons.

If you both can't start over with a new marriage, your old one is seriously dead, then you should move on and quit torturing yourselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to say this but I completely disagree with you. It really is all about choices and what's important to you. The bottom line is, at the end of the day, if your marriage is important to you. You will make the choices necessary to save it. To me if you choose your career over your spouse, it simply means that your spouse wasn't your number one priority.
> 
> The band reference you mentioned really isn't an apples to apples comparison, in my opinion. A bank President has a lot more flexibility to do whatever he wants. Speaking as a man, if a man loves you. He'll do whatever it takes to keep you. Even if it means changing careers. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad guy if he refuses to make lifestyle changes. But it does say that you are not his number one priority. If the OP is ok with that than thats fine.
> 
> As a male serial wayward, you have to make a choice at some point about what matters most. Do you want to keep your life and the one you love, or...do you want to be a playboy? I know the OP says she does not consider her husband a serial, but the fact that he cheated once and did not care enough about consequences the second time says otherwise.


I will agree with this. I think they need an almost new life with new surroundings and new situations to have a shot.

I think they did too much damage to the old ship and she sunk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to say this but I completely disagree with you. It really is all about choices and what's important to you. The bottom line is, at the end of the day, if your marriage is important to you. You will make the choices necessary to save it. To me if you choose your career over your spouse, it simply means that your spouse wasn't your number one priority.
> 
> The band reference you mentioned really isn't an apples to apples comparison, in my opinion. A bank President has a lot more flexibility to do whatever he wants. Speaking as a man, if a man loves you. He'll do whatever it takes to keep you. Even if it means changing careers. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad guy if he refuses to make lifestyle changes. But it does say that you are not his number one priority. If the OP is ok with that than thats fine.
> 
> As a male serial wayward, you have to make a choice at some point about what matters most. Do you want to keep your life and the one you love, or...do you want to be a playboy? I know the OP says she does not consider her husband a serial, but the fact that he cheated once and did not care enough about consequences the second time says otherwise.


I meant more in the part as if he likes being the public eye, doing the commercials sense. Some people like the limelight. If that's part of his personality, what he enjoys doing, I don't think you should stifle that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

One of my issues with being in the limelight is that then both OW have him just show up randomly in their living rooms when they watch tv. Same with their BS. 

I'm not sure he likes the limelight but really wants to do well at his job. 

I think it's perfectly reasonably to ask the WS to give up something that triggers the BS.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> One of my issues with being in the limelight is that then both OW have him just show up randomly in their living rooms when they watch tv. Same with their BS.
> 
> I'm not sure he likes the limelight but really wants to do well at his job.
> 
> I think it's perfectly reasonably to ask the WS to give up something that triggers the BS.


I don't pretend to speak for all waywards. But with that said I know an awful lot of waywards, and one of the things that a lot of us have in common is that we love attention. I'm not saying that all good looking, attention seeking, successful male extroverts are cheaters. But I'd wager that most of them are, or have the potential to be under the right circumstances. As long as you are aware of it you can avoid it, but if you and your husband brush aside that he cheated twice and assume he is cured, you're putting yourselves at risk.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't pretend to speak for all waywards. But with that said I know an awful lot of waywards, and one of the things that a lot of us have in common is that we love attention. I'm not saying that all good looking, attention seeking, successful male extroverts are cheaters. But I'd wager that most of them are, or have the potential to be under the right circumstances. As long as you are aware of it you can avoid it, but if you and your husband brush aside that he cheated twice and assume he is cured, you're putting yourselves at risk.


I don't know that we've brushed it aside.. We were in MC for years. I don't know if he's cured. He's still in IC. 
I think if I don't cheat, he won't cheat. 
But I also think I've been punished enough for what I did. 
While our day to day interaction is good - and we have goals and plans together - these little things that happen that cause me to say WTF? are like a death by 1,000 cuts. 
Waywards change because they take responsibility for what they've done and realize what they did was totally their own fault. 
Because he says he wouldn't have done it if I hadn't done it that is putting the onus on me, as if I have control over his actions. 
So therefore, he doesn't have to look at himself too closely. 
He gets to decide this and live his life accordingly. So, I am left to either accept this or move on. 
Currently living with it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It is obvious you are not in a healthy R.

Don't know anything about your infidelity or how it was handled but your H did not recover.

You are probably right that he never might have cheated if you hadn't but you can't go through Reconciliation and into a healthy marriage with that as the new foundation.

You two need to go back to square one and start laying a good foundation for a new marriage.

Your old marriage was irreparably harmed by your actions and the repairs to your marriage only patched a few holes leaving the foundation still in rubble.

Your H's behavior since DDay should make it obvious that he has not healed properly and, on some level, does not want to. He also seems to want you to be as harmed and hurt as he is.

That is understandable for a time after DDay but not for years into a reconciliation attempt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't see that he did not heal properly?

What you are describing is not a healthy marriage with half closed wounds that keep getting poked so as to never fully heal.

Infidelity, even properly dealt with, leaves a scar. His wounds weren't dealt with properly and never healed fully to form a scar.

He has attempted to give you the same wounds and is not letting yours fully heal.

You are not in a healthy R.

I have no details to go on about your infidelity or how any of it played out but I can tell your husband did not heal from it.

As painful as it might be, you both may need to revisit D-day and examine where you both screwed up in the initial reconciliation stages.

Having technical difficulties. This was an earlier post that disappeared and reappeared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

While I agree, I can't do the work for him. I can't heal my betrayal for him. I would if I could, because I know I caused that pain. 
He thinks we're good and that this is behind us. He's very willing to talk when I being things up. 
But that transfer of vigilance thing of protecting our marriage will never be intrinsic in him, because he doesn't really think he's to blame. And that's the major difference between us. And I can't get him to see it any differently, even if we divorced.... 
So, he's not cheating and we are good. Should that be enough for me?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> While I agree, I can't do the work for him. I can't heal my betrayal for him. I would if I could, because I know I caused that pain.
> He thinks we're good and that this is behind us. He's very willing to talk when I being things up.
> But that transfer of vigilance thing of protecting our marriage will never be intrinsic in him, because he doesn't really think he's to blame. And that's the major difference between us. And I can't get him to see it any differently, even if we divorced....
> So, he's not cheating and we are good. Should that be enough for me?


Only you can answer that but if I were involved with your counseling, I would never have let it go as far along as it has without addressing this.

If your husband wants to be married to you he needs to act like it.

I haven't had time to research. Do you have a career?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Only you can answer that but if I were involved with your counseling, I would never have let it go as far along as it has without addressing this.
> 
> If your husband wants to be married to you he needs to act like it.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm a teacher. We have four grown kids, and a great history, without the cheating.
We bought a lake home this summer and it has been my sanctuary from here.
This morning, we went to hot yoga together. I don't know many guys who would do that. 
So, this has been a very tough decision.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> Yes, I'm a teacher. We have four grown kids, and a great history, without the cheating.
> We bought a lake home this summer and it has been my sanctuary from here.
> This morning, we went to hot yoga together. I don't know many guys who would do that.
> So, this has been a very tough decision.


I fully get it.

The wound needs to be fully sealed though. 

Continuing in the hurt for years is horrible and part of each of you is dying slowly.

I know things die about you from an affair but continued pain will kill more.

Hope you two can come full circle and seal this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

My last IC said she admired hubby for staying at his job. I never went back to her. 
people just don't understand. Like you implied, it's trying to heal with the bandaid occasionally being ripped off. 
The hurt needs to be sealed permanently.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Steph, a guy that punishes you for a rape by fvcking someone else because he thinks you didn't protect yourself adequately isn't capable of moving forward with a healthy R. His first affair after yours I can almost understand, but the second one?

That is the action of a vindictive person. That's who he is, and for all time everything is your fault and nothing can really be asked of him. 

I'd bet if you did what he's doing he'd have a fit, because you owe him as the victim in this.

I'd also bet if you got into his mind he feels entitled to more affairs and is doing you a huge favor by not having them. You're on notice that any time you screw up in any way he can pay you back with more women. 

You're not going to get a full R with him. But that's only my opinion, which combined with fifty cents will probably get you a cheap cup of coffee.

Only you can decide what you want to live with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't pretend to speak for all waywards. But with that said I know an awful lot of waywards, and one of the things that a lot of us have in common is that we love attention. I'm not saying that all good looking, attention seeking, successful male extroverts are cheaters. But I'd wager that most of them are, or have the potential to be under the right circumstances. As long as you are aware of it you can avoid it, but if you and your husband brush aside that he cheated twice and assume he is cured, you're putting yourselves at risk.


The man my wife had her affair with was ugly. Yet he was a serial charmer/cheat with multiple affairs on his poor wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Steph,

*I'm tired of this. *

I can see why.

No offense... but, your marriage and the R of affairs sounds like a parked car on the train tracks... It's just a matter of time. Move it, push it, abandon it, but do something soon. The Balance of Power in your marriage has shifted greatly.

You mention 6 years ago, 4 years ago, like that's old news, no longer relevant. The dynamics of a marriage are forever changed when scarred by affairs. There is no "do-over". It's never forgotten and will wake you every morning and put you to sleep each night.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hold the phone. What rape?!?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Hold the phone. What rape?!?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/309050-want-put-bed.html

His first affair was a payback for hers but the second one was a payback for her getting raped. He figured she had two so he should have two.

Does this sound like a guy who's capable of a healthy R?

I feel terrible for her.....sure the first one was on her but I can't imagine what it's like to live with a guy who's willing to essentially victimize you again so he can feel better.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Steph, a guy that punishes you for a rape by fvcking someone else because he thinks you didn't protect yourself adequately isn't capable of moving forward with a healthy R. His first affair after yours I can almost understand, but the second one?
> 
> That is the action of a vindictive person. That's who he is, and for all time everything is your fault and nothing can really be asked of him.
> 
> ...


You said what I wanted to say, but better. I think he feels like has a get out of jail free card for cheating at this point.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

rape - I was at a hotel at a conference and had a couple drinks with friends. An acquaitance got into my hotel room. I said no three times. The next thing I knew I was on the bed with my pants off.
I didn't know what happened. Very confused. (IC and police and lawyer think I was drugged) Didn't do anything but then told hubby 5 days later, we called police. We tried to get them to take the case but said it would
be a he said/she said kind of thing. We looked into filing civil charges. Lawyer said it would be hard to prove. MC said it would destroy us. 
Hubby very very angry we didn't pursue charges. Angry with me I opened the door (my friends were standing behind him so I thought I was safe). Angry with me I didn't scream... and on and on. 

So, when I caught hubby the second time he said, "you got to have two so I got to have two." He has since said he said this in anger.
I had to point out the fact that he's never said how sorry he felt that this happened to me. Our MC MADE him do that. Instead, it's
like it happened to him. Like my second betrayal.

So, I think we act like we are beyond this and we are kind and loving and moving forward. It's just the little things that niggle at me. The commercial, the not moving,
the thinking I should just accept seeing both OW from time to time. I'm not sure if I'm still being punished.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/309050-want-put-bed.html
> 
> 
> 
> I feel terrible for her.....sure the first one was on her but I can't imagine what it's like to live with a guy who's willing to essentially victimize you again so he can feel better.


no, his first one was on him. I'm not in charge of his actions... I will NOT take any blame for what he's done. I may have caused his pain but I didn't make him have an affair. I understand it but I won't ever like it. And I reserve the right to leave him simply from his one affair. As he mine. I don't expect him to stay with me after I had an affair. That was his choice.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> no, his first one was on him. I'm not in charge of his actions... I will NOT take any blame for what he's done. I may have caused his pain but I didn't make him have an affair. I understand it but I won't ever like it. And I reserve the right to leave him simply from his one affair. As he mine. I don't expect him to stay with me after I had an affair. That was his choice.


Of course, you are entitled to leave. I was saying that I can almost understand why he would've done it, not that it was on you or that it was justified. Revenge affairs are crappy but they're one of those things that although most of us don't agree with we can kind of understand where they come from.

But the second one really gets to the heart of his true character, IMO. I mean, if you're really going to be even he had two willing ones so you should have two willing ones. You should get to have another affair and he can go rape someone (or get raped), then you'll truly be even. See how that sounds?

But I don't know him, you do. If you think you're past it then carry one.....I just get the feeling that you're really not.

I don't think you're going to get real closure or impenetrable boundaries because he thinks this is all your fault and he's a victim that responded. It's hard to work with that mindset.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

stephscarlett said:


> rape - I was at a hotel at a conference and had a couple drinks with friends. *An acquaintance* got into my hotel room. I said no three times. The next thing I knew I was on the bed with my pants off...
> 
> Angry with me I opened the door (*my friends were standing behind him so I thought I was safe*).


Acquaintance?

Friends?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Speaking as a man, if a man loves you. He'll do whatever it takes to keep you.


Truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Everyone here is right. He doesnt' get it because he doesnt' think he did anything wrong. He simply reacted to what I did. Intrinsic motivation to be a safe partner is not there. 
I saw on his messages that he texted a co-worker (cute little blonde) about something for their business. She answered that that was good because she was stressed about the business thing. He answered, "no stressing allowed! :grin2:" or some other dumb a$$ emoticon. This is the guy who told me "never underestimate the power of a text," straight from his IC... 
do I think anything is going on? No.
do I think he needs to be less flirty? Yes... 

If anyone here thinks that interaction is ok and I'm over-reacting, please let me know. I could be.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> Everyone here is right. He doesnt' get it because he doesnt' think he did anything wrong.* He simply reacted to what I did. Intrinsic motivation to be a safe partner is not there. *
> I saw on his messages that he texted a co-worker (cute little blonde) about something for their business. She answered that that was good because she was stressed about the business thing. He answered, "no stressing allowed! :grin2:" or some other dumb a$$ emoticon. This is the guy who told me "never underestimate the power of a text," straight from his IC...
> do I think anything is going on? No.
> do I think he needs to be less flirty? Yes...
> ...


The bolded indicates a lack of leadership. No wonder you do not feel respect for him. I would not, either.

Have you shared with him how his lack of intrinsic motivation affects your feelings for him, just as clearly as you did here?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

yes. He insists he's being a good partner.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> Everyone here is right. He doesnt' get it because he doesnt' think he did anything wrong. He simply reacted to what I did. Intrinsic motivation to be a safe partner is not there.
> I saw on his messages that he texted a co-worker (cute little blonde) about something for their business. She answered that that was good because she was stressed about the business thing. He answered, "no stressing allowed! :grin2:" or some other dumb a$$ emoticon. This is the guy who told me "never underestimate the power of a text," straight from his IC...
> do I think anything is going on? No.
> do I think he needs to be less flirty? Yes...
> ...


You're not over reacting at all. He is putting himself at risk by doing that. Not just your marriage but his career as well. He is right, texts can be powerful, as well as easily misunderstood. Especially when they come from a man his position. I've screwed up twice via text. The first time, because of friendly texts from me, a female subordinate totally got the wrong idea and sent me inappropriate pics. She said she was drunk when I confronted her about it so I let it go. And, another time I got pretty caught up in something that started out innocently enough. Over time I found out I had quite a bit in common with a subordinate and ended up in a brief affair. I no longer text co-workers.

I'm in no way saying that no one should ever text co-workers. But....if you've had two affairs, probably not the best idea.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> yes. He insists he's being a good partner.


So he is not listening. Do you think he truly cannot see it, or is not willing to see it?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You know what you've got. Frankly based on his actions there's a decent chance he would've cheated anyway, but now he feels justified. 

Being a good partner means something different to him, it means he's not fvcking anyone. Beyond that all bets are off.

But it looks like you've chosen to live with it and that's up to you. What is your boundary for what you're willing to live with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> So he is not listening. Do you think he truly cannot see it, or is not willing to see it?


he thinks:
not cheating - safe partner


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> he thinks:
> not cheating - safe partner


Yep, that is what lifeistooshort caught onto right away. 

Is that enough for you?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> But it looks like you've chosen to live with it and that's up to you. What is your boundary for what you're willing to live with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suppose I could approach him with this and tell him to keep himself on the straight and narrow when texting female co-workers (he sent a picture of himself to one, dressed in a jersey of their common alma mater during a big game - but he showed it to me too - but SHE doesn't know that... and what about it her husband walked by and saw a picture of the boss to his wife? He's like... an idiot about this sh1t!)
and remind him what he told me about texting... 
But part of me wants to watch and see what happens... also, he'd be pissed I looked at his messages... "normal couples don't look at each other's stuff." whatever. 
Maybe NOT CHEATING should be enough for me. But ya know what, it's disrespectful.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I suppose I could approach him with this and tell him to keep himself on the straight and narrow when texting female co-workers (he sent a picture of himself to one, dressed in a jersey of their common alma mater during a big game - but he showed it to me too - but SHE doesn't know that... and what about it her husband walked by and saw a picture of the boss to his wife? He's like... an idiot about this sh1t!)
> and remind him what he told me about texting...
> But part of me wants to watch and see what happens... also, he'd be pissed I looked at his messages... "normal couples don't look at each other's stuff." whatever.
> Maybe NOT CHEATING should be enough for me. But ya know what, it's disrespectful.


Try to educate him. Your future is affected by his actions, too.

If his career blew up, he got sued, you two lost everything . . . What would you do?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I suppose I could approach him with this and tell him to keep himself on the straight and narrow when texting female co-workers (he sent a picture of himself to one, dressed in a jersey of their common alma mater during a big game - but he showed it to me too - but SHE doesn't know that... and what about it her husband walked by and saw a picture of the boss to his wife? He's like... an idiot about this sh1t!)
> and remind him what he told me about texting...
> But part of me wants to watch and see what happens... also, he'd be pissed I looked at his messages... "normal couples don't look at each other's stuff." whatever.
> Maybe NOT CHEATING should be enough for me. But ya know what, it's disrespectful.


I agree, it's very disrespectful. What if you emulated some of the same behavior with other men? 

Empathy goes a long way.

Besides, poor boundaries are a slippery slope to cheating and if it happens he'll still blame you. 

That's what you can look forward to with him. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Try to educate him. Your future is affected by his actions, too.
> 
> If his career blew up, he got sued, you two lost everything . . . What would you do?


this is a really good point! really good..


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree, it's very disrespectful. What if you emulated some of the same behavior with other men?
> 
> Empathy goes a long way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There have been so many times that I've wanted to give him a dose of his own medicine but as a fWW, that is not allowed in my value system anymore. I try to be the best partner I can be NO MATTER HOW he's acting. 
Empathy - it sure does.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> There have been so many times that I've wanted to give him a dose of his own medicine but as a fWW, that is not allowed in my value system anymore. I try to be the best partner I can be NO MATTER HOW he's acting.
> Empathy - it sure does.


I understand. I had this with a long standing issue I had with my hb..... not cheating but something I saw as very disrespectful. 

We'd talk about it and it would stop until it started again. 

One day I lost my mind and delivered a bunch of it right back, and guess what? Turns out being on the receiving end ain't so good and the behavior hasn't happened since. 

Like you I didn't want to go that route because it just seemed petty and trashy to me, but there came a point where I realized that what I'd been doing wasn't working and I wasn't going to keep putting up with it.

It's possible that just a hint of poor boundaries followed by a comment along the lines of whether this is the kind of marriage he wants might be enough.

You have a severe power imbalance in your marriage right now, with him holding all of it. I'm a firm believer in power balances, I think they're healthy. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@ReformedHubby

You might wear the cheater label, but I think you are a lot more honest, at a deep level, than some of the folks who proudly display their non-cheater status.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> There have been so many times that I've wanted to give him a dose of his own medicine but as a fWW, that is not allowed in my value system anymore. I try to be the best partner I can be NO MATTER HOW he's acting.
> Empathy - it sure does.


I think you are rising out of the relationship.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> this is a really good point! really good..


How would you answer the question, at this point?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> How would you answer the question, at this point?


you mean what would I do if he lost his job over something like this? 
I would be livid. I would simply say "you. just. don't. get. it." and "did our slippery slope conversations with MC time after time just go in one ear and out the other?" and file for divorce.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> you mean what would I do if he lost his job over something like this?
> I would be livid. I would simply say "you. just. don't. get. it." and "did our slippery slope conversations with MC time after time just go in one ear and out the other?" and *file for divorce*.


Girlfriend, you might want to _think about that. _ That is your heart speaking to you, cutting through the clutter.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Girlfriend, you might want to _think about that. _ That is your heart speaking to you, cutting through the clutter.


I'm not sure he could get fired for what he did...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I'm not sure he could get fired for what he did...


Maybe not right now.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Maybe not right now.


so you're saying have the conversation about keeping us safe by not engaging this way any further to jeopardize the job or the marriage...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> so you're saying have the conversation about keeping us safe by not engaging this way any further to jeopardize the job or the marriage...


Be straight up with him. That is my message.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I just talked to my sister...she said this isn't a big thing. 
But you know what - all these little things - they add up. They add up to a death of 1000 cuts and me loving him a little bit less. How does he not get that. 
I go back to this - he would be angry if I did this. 
This will be a difficult conversation. 
I'm just feel done. Tired. Wanting to lie on a beach for 3 months. And he didn't do anything really wrong. He just isn't being vigilant. 
Is that enough cause to throw in the towel?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Whatever you decide is enough cause is enough cause.

Have you looked over the financials closely?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Did he ever get over your A?

have you healed from his two A's?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I don't know if he got over my affair. 
Im not sure if I'm over his. Probably not. Still pissed about things on occasion. 
We both wish the past was different..,
but things are a lot better than they used to be. We can actually function now, and plan things and enjoy them.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

stephscarlett said:


> While I agree, I can't do the work for him. I can't heal my betrayal for him. I would if I could, because I know I caused that pain.
> He thinks we're good and that this is behind us. He's very willing to talk when I being things up.
> But that transfer of vigilance thing of protecting our marriage will never be intrinsic in him, because he doesn't really think he's to blame. And that's the major difference between us. And I can't get him to see it any differently, even if we divorced....
> So, he's not cheating and we are good. Should that be enough for me?


He sounds passive aggressive...going out to meet this 'guy about jet skis' or whatever, and not telling you first, etc. That's passive aggressive behavior, and perhaps he may never fully heal from the affair you had, but...do you want to be subtly punished for the rest of your life over something you sound truly remorseful over? There comes a point, when people need to forgive and move forward or forgive and let go of the person that hurt them. Your husband sounds like he has forgiven, but he is stuck not able to move forward but not willing to let you go. But, you matter, you know. If you are not happy, then you need to figure out if YOU can handle this type of limbo forever. That's what the problem is...limbo. Which is the worse place to be, it's better to be hot or cold, than in the middle. I'd have a heart to heart with him, and see if this resonates with him. You have to decide how you envision your own future, and if the status quo is honestly something you see going on. 

Don't ever be afraid to be true to yourself. ((hug))


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

It's really bad you guys....

I talked to him, and tried to express the intent message and how it could be misconstrued and misinterpreted and that he needs to protect himself. He listened and hugged me at the end. However, I said "remember when you said not the underestimate the power of a text? What if someone texted me a smiley face emoticon?" And he asked who and I said it didn't happen, but you texted the gal one... so, he got mad at me for using this crazy tactic to tell him about it. I apologized.
This was all this morning, I got the silent treatment all night. I asked how long I was going to be punished. He said "my therapist said your wife is torturing herself with all this. Last week you said you'd try to set me up with some woman to see what I'd do. You said you were done looking at my stuff and then looked at my phone." 
For the record I most certainly did not say that. I did say I trust him but have no idea what would happen if some woman came onto him... how would he react. That is no where close to what he said I said... I'm just... stunned.. 
He said his boss always sends emoticons... that it is a bank thing. I said I didn't know that. He said "do you need to?" He said "when is this going to end?" 
He said he wasn't the one who slept with two guys and expected things to be all better six months later. I said I didn't expect that but was doing the best to help him through it. 
I left. Walked out the door. I had to get to work and we couldn't put this back together in 5 minutes. Plus, I WAS LIVID he continues to classify my rape as sleeping with someone. 
We need help. We are both so angry. 
I am very sad. 
I expect that if I want to stay in the marriage I'll have to trust him, let him do whatever he needs to do business wise and carry on.

Would someone tell me if I'm over-reacting?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> It's really bad you guys....
> 
> I talked to him, and tried to express the intent message and how it could be misconstrued and misinterpreted and that he needs to protect himself. He listened and hugged me at the end. However, I said "remember when you said not the underestimate the power of a text? What if someone texted me a smiley face emoticon?" And he asked who and I said it didn't happen, but you texted the gal one... so, he got mad at me for using this crazy tactic to tell him about it. I apologized.
> This was all this morning, I got the silent treatment all night. I asked how long I was going to be punished. He said "my therapist said your wife is torturing herself with all this. Last week you said you'd try to set me up with some woman to see what I'd do. You said you were done looking at my stuff and then looked at my phone."
> ...


You are not overreacting. You are a BS, too. And he is being very insensitive to your pain.

Steph, you are married to an immature, selfish man. That is the size of it. 

You can learn coping techniques, and you can wait it out, perhaps seeing changes and enlightenment in him. Sometimes that happens. You can also keep your lifestyle that way.

Or you can say No, I am done, and walk out of his life. There are no guarantees if you leave. He may become vindictive and take everything he can from you, financially and socially. A divorce will likely be an emotional drain. You may end up with your freedom and not much else.

There is really no way to say at this point what the outcome either way would be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I think I could stay, not ever snoop, trust and things will be ok. I guess it's me that keeps screwing things up.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I suspected he didn't fully believe you about the rape.

Putting myself in his shoes, I would have been outraged that you waited 5 days to tell me.

I'm not trying to beat you up but that was terrible.

I wouldn't have cheated in response but probably would have had your head examined and done some investigating on my own.

He should have left. He believes you cheated twice and it is still eating him alive and you aren't healing well either.

Sorry I didn't post earlier but rape triggers me, especially in your situation where you didn't tell for several days and the guy walked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Its actually very typical for a rape victim not to tell right away. 
And I am DONE defending myself over this rape.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> Its actually very typical for a rape victim not to tell right away.
> And I am DONE defending myself over this rape.


You have nothing to defend here. I'm not attacking you.

I am letting you know that I would have been furious with you as well.

That is a typical reaction to someone you love and trust not telling you they were violated till 5 days had past.

While I will not claim your reaction wasn't natural for you, it is not a typical one for all women in marriages.

No need to defend yourself but I understand how your husband feels.

His reactions have not been healthy at all and you two are definitely not through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

His statement is rich coming from a guy who fvcked two women in order to pay you back. 

And I agree he doesn't believe you about the rape. You have nothing to defend, but your hb sees it as a second d!ck, which he paid you back for yet is still po'd at you. 

As jld said you're married to a selfish, immature guy. I'm going to add vindictive to the description. 

This is what you've got and what you'll have to live with if you remain with him. 

Can you live with it?

If you're bent on staying I still think a bit of his own medicine might be helpful, but that's up to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He's never said he was angry because I waited 5 days. He is angry because I didn't protect myself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Why did you not tell right away, steph?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> He's never said he was angry because I waited 5 days. He is angry because I didn't protect myself.


But you tried to.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Why did you not tell right away, steph?


I was confused about what happened. I was in shock. It wasn't until my IC talked me through it and I journaled that I got clear about what happened.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> But you tried to.


I didn't scream but I said no three times. He held my arms down..
hubby knows all this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I didn't scream but I said no three times. He held my arms down..
> hubby knows all this.


I'm so sorry, steph. I did not mean to make you relive it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why do you stay in this marriage? 

I’m engaged, and I hope that my fiancé doesn’t think that the definition of a good marriage is ‘no one is cheating.’ Lol 

You deserve better. But, I don’t think you think you do, that’s the problem. Your husband likes the attention of women, other than you. Accept that, and decide if you want to live like that, forever. Because he won’t change. You are thinking that there are two options…will he change or won’t he, and that’s not the options. The options before you are will I remain with a man who won’t ever change, or should I leave? Just being real with you. Fighting over emoticons, etc…you are unhappy, and you are looking for things to argue over…because you are unhappy. I have a feeling, you will find yourself again, if you didn’t allow yourself to be wrapped up in what this fool thinks of you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You should not defend yourself here and have no need to.

Your H is the One that doesn't believe you.

He talks and acts as if you had two affairs.

You can never heal under these circumstances and neither can he.

You will die slowly under this continued assault.

I would suggest moving on and fully healing and getting some peace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Like Deidre asked, What is keeping you there?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Like Deidre asked, What is keeping you there?



our 4 kids, our history, he is loving, we do SO MUCH together that many husbands wouldn't do. 
I love him, if I would just not talk about difficult things we would be good. 
If I would let go and forgive we would be ok. Sure, he hasn't either. And he never brings it up. But, do you think I can't
feel that in our time together? 
We do many positive things together. That's what his IC says to do. 
I am pissed that he brought her into this, but whatever. What he said about what his IC said and my rape are just anger talking. 
So no talking, and hoping for the best = no anger. 
I realize I'm talking in circles.
FML.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> our 4 kids, our history, he is loving, we do SO MUCH together that many husbands wouldn't do.
> I love him, if I would just not talk about difficult things we would be good.
> If I would let go and forgive we would be ok. Sure, he hasn't either. And he never brings it up. But, do you think I can't
> feel that in our time together?
> ...


We all have some feelings like that.

If you can be the leader, things can be more or less tolerable.

His being the leader, by sincerely seeking to understand, and showing compassion, as well as looking honestly at himself, and changing, would earn your trust. That could heal the marriage.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> We all have some feelings like that.
> 
> If you can be the leader, things can be more or less tolerable.
> 
> His being the leader, by sincerely seeking to understand, and showing compassion, as well as looking honestly at himself, and changing, would earn your trust. That could heal the marriage.


it sure would...
one of my friends said: if you're not trusting it means you feel unsafe, why does that bring out the defensiveness in him and not empathy?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> it sure would...
> one of my friends said: if you're not trusting it means you feel unsafe, why does that bring out the defensiveness in him and not empathy?


Because he is weak. Defensiveness is always weak. 

Strong people seek first to understand. They look at their own hand in their troubles. They seek first to heal, rather than to be healed.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Because he is weak. Defensiveness is always weak.
> 
> Strong people seek first to understand. They look at their own hand in their troubles. They seek first to heal, rather than to be healed.


I would like to heal. I would like to be done with this. I don't care if I have to do it myself, I just want it done... but don't know how to get there.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I would like to heal. I would like to be done with this. I don't care if I have to do it myself, I just want it done... but don't know how to get there.


I don't think you are going to truly heal without his help. Not if you stay married, anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> it sure would...
> one of my friends said: if you're not trusting it means you feel unsafe, why does that bring out the defensiveness in him and not empathy?


I was thinking this may have played a part in your delay in telling him about the attack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I can tell you for sure that the reaction to my rape was that it happened to him, not me. I do get that this causes a lot of pain for men. and after my affair, probably debilitating pain.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I can tell you for sure that the reaction to my rape was that it happened to him, not me. I do get that this causes a lot of pain for men. and after my affair, probably debilitating pain.


Wow, that is telling, that he put his pain before yours.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm headed to IC today...
We were ok last night. But thoughts of this woke me up at night and sent me to the other bedroom.
I told hubby I was going to IC because I was so disturbed by our conversation yesterday am, he said, "I know it's my fault." and hugged me goodbye.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you told him directly that he treated you as if it happened to him? 

It's disturbing that be doesn't grasp the selfishness of that attitude. 

Is he otherwise able to empathize or show compassion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you told him directly that he treated you as if it happened to him?
> 
> It's disturbing that be doesn't grasp the selfishness of that attitude.
> 
> ...


I haven't told him recently.. and I will... it will not be a good conversation. it brings up a lot of pain for BOTH of us. 

he would say that after my affair, not protecting myself was selfish.

he is not an empathetic person by nature. I think if he would have had two stand alone affairs (or heck even one) he would have changed... but because he thinks his affairs were simply reactions he couldn't control he therefore he doesn't have to take responsibility for changing himself... .. And dont' get me wrong, he does many wonderful things.. but empathy - no. 
this is why I had such issues about him being on TV in commercials, on billboards, etc. - he gave absolutely no thought to the BS of the two OW seeing him or me knowing his OW would be seeing him.
I just do not get this.
Perhaps those kinds of things should not be our problem. But I guess I feel that after I've been an accomplice in hurting someone, I lay low. I changed grocery stores and churches so my AP's BS would never have to see me. They moved anyway.
But, I guess at some point life goes on and you have to live your life. That is what he's doing. Any IC would say this is what you have to do. I maintain that if you can extend some kindness to another, especially one you've hurt, shouldn't you?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I haven't told him recently.. and I will... it will not be a good conversation. it brings up a lot of pain for BOTH of us.
> 
> he would say that after my affair, not protecting myself was selfish.
> 
> ...



Maybe you're now seeing his authentic self. It was probably never tested with adversity of this magnitude before..... when stuff hits the fan everything is about him. The fact that you might be in pain in secondary to his pain. 

He hurts so whatever he needs to make himself feel better is in the table. You don't exist as a separate person with her own pain. .... your job is to cater to his pain. 

He's not just living his life. If this were true he wouldn't be upset if you had the same behavior as him. ... he'd see it as you living your life too.

He knows what he's doing is sh!tty but it makes HIM feel better and that's what he cares about. 

It's possible if IC can get him to understand that he's not he only one to be considered in the marriage you might have a chance. Otherwise I don't know how you'd adjust to sleeping next to a guy that really doesn't give a sh!t about anyone but himself, at least emotionally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I feel better. I'll do some writing after I saw IC today... She gave me some very good suggestions. I was right to go to him with a concern.
I wasn't accusatory. I just needed to step back when he blew up and say, whoa, where is this coming from. I thought
we handled it well Tuesday night and then what happened that made things all different by WEdnesday? 
I could have gotten all over in his stuff, hired a PI, whatever, but I didn't, I came to him because I trusted I could get
more information from him and allay my fears. And that I didn't need to go behind his back to do it. 
So I should ask him WHERE the blow up is coming from. It could be what I did reminded him of when I was hypervigilant. But I'm not there anymore... 
ANd yesterday I had a good day. I had NO IDEA what I would come home to. There was actually a niggle of
relief when I considered that this might be it.
But, it didn't seem to matter.
I can have a good life with or without him. It was ok but I couldnt' sleep last night.
I'm going to write him a letter, maybe give it to him Saturday. 
IC said it was ok if we never agree with what happened with my rape (I don't know about this...). But that I can say it hurts when he brings up my past to mudsling.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I suspected he didn't fully believe you about the rape.
> 
> Putting myself in his shoes, I would have been outraged that you waited 5 days to tell me.
> 
> ...


I just told my husband I was raped on Tuesday of this week. Granted it didn't happen when we were together. I was with my ex husband at the time (dating). I did not want to tell my ex at the time what happened, my best friend told me I HAD to. She said if I didn't, she would. 

Rape victims feel very ashamed, very dirty, very scared. Telling someone you were violated in such a way is NOT easy to say. 

In my case, I didn't feel like I could ever tell my current husband what happened to me because I didn't emotionally trust him to react the way that I would have needed him to.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> I just told my husband I was raped on Tuesday of this week. Granted it didn't happen when we were together. I was with my ex husband at the time (dating). I did not want to tell my ex at the time what happened, my best friend told me I HAD to. She said if I didn't, she would.
> 
> Rape victims feel very ashamed, very dirty, very scared. Telling someone you were violated in such a way is NOT easy to say.
> 
> In my case, I didn't feel like I could ever tell my current husband what happened to me because I didn't emotionally trust him to react the way that I would have needed him to.


honey I'm so so sorry about this! Rape abuse counselors were my lifeline and validated what I was feeling. Please seek out those that can help you.
You are right. It's so hard to tell someone.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> I just told my husband I was raped on Tuesday of this week. Granted it didn't happen when we were together. I was with my ex husband at the time (dating). I did not want to tell my ex at the time what happened, my best friend told me I HAD to. She said if I didn't, she would.
> 
> Rape victims feel very ashamed, very dirty, very scared. Telling someone you were violated in such a way is NOT easy to say.
> 
> In my case, I didn't feel like I could ever tell my current husband what happened to me because I didn't emotionally trust him to react the way that I would have needed him to.


I'm very, very familiar with many aspects of rape unfortunately.

You're actually proving the point I made in another post. Low trust and love.

My wife would immediately run to me if she was attacked.

She had a light sexual assault in the first year of our relationship and immediately told me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

That's how your wife reacted. Others react differently...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> That's how your wife reacted. Others react differently...


In a low trust and love marriage, yes.

Your assault happened at the worst possible time and you reacted in the almost worst way. The worst would have been not telling at all.

It was at a time when trust and love needed to be rebuilt because it was very low.

Your H has behaved horribly in reaction to your rape and continues to do so.

Stop excusing his words and actions saying "He is just angry."

That is bvllshyt! He does not believe you!

If he does believe you, he is a monster for how he is treating you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

He may not believe me. He may have not believed me had I run right to him to tell him either. 

At his insistence, we looked into filing charges - twice. HE talked to the DA. I talked to an attorney. We talked to rape counselors together and they all insisted I must have been drugged. 

But, its his choice to believe me or not and I have no control over that. I wish he would tell me what he thinks.
But, I'm not sure this would even help matters.


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