# New here, Dead fiancees parents are trying to take my son



## Justtryingtosurvive

Sorry if this isn't the place or anything like that just at the end of my rope right now and I need some help. My fiancee and I were togeather for a few years and we had an oops moment and she gave birth to our son who is 8 months old. Well we were on our way to pick our son up from my parents house after getting back in town from vacation well on our way to my parents house we were hit by a drunk driver and my fiancee was killed and I am still recovering from the wreck. This was about three months ago I haven't even had time to grieve yet alone take care of myself and get back to 100% and now her parents have approached me trying to gain custody of my son the only thing that connects me to her. I don't understand why they think this is remotely ok or appropriate and when they came over a few days asking for this I am not going to lie I got incredibly angry and lost it on them. I mean can they really take my kid from me? I can't lose my son he is the only reason I am still breathing right now honestly or even still functioning as well as I am. I don't know what to do, I don't know if I have the strength to fight this I shouldn't have to fight this. I mean I already blame myself enough and I know they blame me as well and If I could do it all over again I would gladly switch places with her I would so very much trade places with her if I could. Trying my best to take care of my son I have been going to physical therapy for my wreck injuries been going beyond what the doctors have asked of me to try and get better. But it isn't enough for her parents and I don't understand why. What do I do?


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## EleGirl

Unless they can prove that you are a danger to your child, no they cannot take your child away from you.

I do think you need to read up on child custody issues and grand parent's rights in your state. They differ state to state. In most states you don't even have to ever let him see them again if you don't want to.

I also suggest that you see a lawyer for a consultation of how to protect your paternal rights if her parents try to come after you for custody.


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## JohnA

I am sorry for your loss. My ex committed adultery and we divorced but both my parents have passed and I stiil mourn them. As time passed the pain has dimished greatly and incredible memories of them and my family growing up protect me from much of the bullshyt of life. 

Do they think you are at fault somehow? Where you driving?

Who is taking care of your son now? 

I think Elegirl nailed it in one. 

If you where hit by a drunk driver a lot of lawyers will be chasing you. Beware !!! Start a thread on how to pick one and what to watch out for. A friends father was killed in the same way. Not only did he get close to 80% of the insurance my after 30% he asked her for but "case expenses" add only 50%. Then the SOB went after the SS funds for the children. So beware! 

Many people do not realize if their spouse qualified for social security it pays a monthly benefit for child support. A roommate in college still recieved money from SS as a result of his father's death. A lot of hospitals have a case manager who may be able to help you.

Be well.


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## arbitrator

*There is not one jurisdiction in the land that your fiancées parents won't play hell in trying to abscond with your child. 

Ele is totally correct in telling you what she did! Largely, the burden of proof is squarely on these "grandparents" to "prove" that you are a totally unfit or negligent parent!

Provided that this "threat" continues and however "well intended" that its filing is, please take time to retain a good law firm to duly represent both you and your sons interests by offering to counter sue these potential home wreckers!

By golly, if nothing else does, at least that little legal wrinkle will get their damned attention! *


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## Satya

I'm sorry for your loss. You should get some actual legal advice, like @EleGirl suggested. Your financee's parents might be well intentioned, but you are the father and you have rights. They should respect them.


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## aine

Just, so sorry for your loss. Get a lawyer and advice as to your rights as the father of your child. Surround yourself with people who love you and care for you.


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## Tatsuhiko

Wow, I feel so bad for you. I can't imagine what you've been through.

They probably didn't mean anything by it. They love their grandson and wanted to make sure that he has a comfortable life. But this is about the worst thing you can suggest to a loving parent--taking their child away. I know if someone even suggested this to me about my own kids that I'd react the way you did. You might have just misunderstood their good intentions and overreacted a bit. Like other commenters, I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on.


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## Cooper

This is selfish thinking on their part. Like you they are mourning the loss of their daughter, like you they want to stay connected some how and the grand child is certainly a connection. I would guess they think since you are not related to them by marriage as your life moves forward and you possibly marry and have more children they will be left out of your childs life, and that hurts them deeply. Consider the pain of them losing their child and the pain of possibly losing their grand child and it's easy to see why they are desperate. 

There also is certainly the chance you haven't proved yourself to be a capable parent and they are truly concerned for the welfare of the child.

What is the reason they have given for wanting to take the child? 

I truly am sorry for your loss, it's a terrible tragedy for all involved.


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## MJJEAN

As @Cooper said, these people have just lost their child and are grieving. They likely also come from a generation that believes it takes two stable people to raise a child and have seen few successful single fathers. Plus, you seem to have some physical damage resulting from the accident that might make then think you aren't able to chase after a child. Considering everything, they might think it would be in the child's best interest to be raised by them. Your job is to prove to them that you are perfectly capable of caring for your child AND to make sure that your child has a relationship with his mothers parents. Show them by word and deed that you are a capable parent and that you have no interest in taking the child away from them and I think this will resolve itself.


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## AtMyEnd

Just as your son is your last link to your fiancée, he is also their last link to their daughter. It's incredibly selfish of them to even think of such a thing but it may just be because they're grieving and not thinking clearly. I would talk to an attorney ASAP about all this though. As far as I know there are no legal grounds to be able to take a child away from their sole surviving biological parent unless that parent is proven to be unfit by the state. I would cut all contact with her parents as if you blow up at them again and say something out of complete anger, they could try to use that against you. I would also talk to an attorney about getting a court order to keep her parents away from you and your son until all this is sorted out. Grief can make people do some crazy things, you need to protect yourself and son.


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## chillymorn69

how did they react when you told them no way?



sorry for your loss.


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## Yeswecan

Sorry for your loss. 

Grandparents do carry rights concerning grandchildren in some states. Getting full custody, unless grossly warranted I don't see that happening.


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## WhiplashWish

Lawyer up as soon as you can. Let the attorney play the attack dog.


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## jb02157

I truly do feel so sorry for you. I can't imagine the how her parents could feel they have the right to do this to you. They obviously feel that you were at fault for the wreck when it was a drunk drivers fault. I know how it is the have very bad in-laws but to do this is a new low. I agree with Ele, there's really no legal grounds they can possibly take your son away. I wish you well in your recovery.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Sorry for the late response, was dealing with a few things. There reasoning for wanting to take my son away is because I am not totally mobile yet they don't trust me to not become self-destructive and be able to take care of my son. But I tried telling them that what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for me and that my son is my only concern as well as getting back onto my feet. I am just really hesitant to sue my child's grandparents but I cannot and will not allow them to try and take my kid from me. I already have a lawyer for the drunk driver and a few other things but I suppose I can also just hire them for this situation with my child's grandparents. Simply do not need this kind of pressure on me right now and it is not helpful and in fact is just making things worse.


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## EleGirl

So you don't have to sue your child's grand parents. That's not what we are suggesting. Instead they can only take your son if they go through the courts and file for custody. Then you get a lawyer to fight them. So, unless they actually try to go to court to take your child away from you, you don't need anything more than a consultation with a lawyer, maybe half hour to one hour so that can ask questions about what the grandparents rights are in your state and what you need to do to keep them from having a case to take your son away.

So you don't have to sue your child's grand parents. That's not what we are suggesting. Instead they can only take your son if they go through the courts and file for custody. Then you get a lawyer to fight them.

If you don't mind sharing your state, I could find you some info that is available through the internet for a case like yours.

in the last two months, about how much time do they spend with your son? Are they baby sitting him? Or does he spend a lot of time with them?

Is anyone in your family involved with you son? Do you have any help from your family?


Are you talking to your son's maternal grandparents now after they told you that they wanted to take have custody of him? If so, how often do you now see them?


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## frusdil

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> There reasoning for wanting to take my son away is because I am not totally mobile yet *they don't trust me to not become self-destructive and be able to take care of my son. But I tried telling them that what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for me*


Can you clarify what you mean by the bolded text? It reads as though they may have legitimate concerns...which may not be the case, hence my question...


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## EleGirl

@Justtryingtosurvive

How old you?

Do you have a job right now? I get the impression that you do not.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I live in Washington, After they made this request/demand They haven't been welcomed over or to see my son at all. But before then I had an open door policy with them and they would come over and spend a lot of time visiting ext. I have a lot of family help from my parents to my sister's been really nice to have the amount of help that I have but also probably to keep an eye on me. I have a job and am currently on medical leave. And I am 25 years old, I spend almost every waking moment with my son when I am not at the doctors or in physical therapy.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

frusdil said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by the bolded text? It reads as though they may have legitimate concerns...which may not be the case, hence my question...


I used to be a drug addict but I turned my life around and have been sober for a very long time but I told my fiancee this when we first started dating just to be very upfront with her and let her know I had some demons. I got addicted to heroin when I was in high school and It was a dark time but with the help of family and friends I got clean went to college and graduated and had an incredibly amazing job. But because of that history I am short tempered from the pain I am in because I am not allowed to have pain killers.


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## TaDor

Congrats on getting off of drugs. I hope you never ever revisit that past.
Sorry for your lost... and your son's loss of his mother.

My advice is from my state with what I know.
1 - they have NO rights to your son. Unless YOU are a danger to your son.
2 - Don't let them get you down. They have nothing. They farked themselves.
3 - Your lawyer can EASILY write up an agreement (maybe an affidavit is enough) that states that when or IF you are incapacitated, injured or dead, that YOUR parents and/or sister have FIRST rights to your son.

4 - In many states, for them to have "rights" to your son, they would have to be taking care of him *IN THIER HOME* for 6 months straight. Let's say if you lived on the streets on drugs, then they would have legal grounds to request custodial rights. But as long as YOU live and you are sane, **YOU* are the father. You can take your son and leave the state and nothing they can do about it. At best, they can request the court to give them supervised visitations. What they did, was severely hurt themselves... how stupid of them.

5 - Will PT get you back on your feet? How long before you get there? I've been there, but it only took a few months. I couldn't take care of my son, drive, etc for a while.

Really, take it easy. There is not much they can do. If they go to a lawyer and try to... they may take their money, but a good one will still tell them "you have less than a 1% chance of winning". It would take a day to write up an agreement, that gives your parent the rights to your son if needed in the future.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I live in Washington, After they made this request/demand They haven't been welcomed over or to see my son at all. But before then I had an open door policy with them and they would come over and spend a lot of time visiting ext. I have a lot of family help from my parents to my sister's been really nice to have the amount of help that I have but also probably to keep an eye on me. I have a job and am currently on medical leave. And I am 25 years old, I spend almost every waking moment with my son when I am not at the doctors or in physical therapy.


Do Grandparents Have Visitation Rights in Washington? | DivorceNet.com

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=26.09.240


The below link is to a grand parent's advocacy group who are lobbying to get the laws changed in Washington because "Washington State is currently the only state that does not offer grandparents legal recourse to petition for visitation other than as a part of a current dissolution, separation or parenting plan."

Grandparents Rights of Washington

So, according to the above, right now her parents cannot even sue you for visitation because according to current laws, they cannot do this unless there is current dissolution (divorce) , separation or parenting plan in the courts.


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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry for the late response, was dealing with a few things. There reasoning for wanting to take my son away is because I am not totally mobile yet they don't trust me to not become self-destructive and be able to take care of my son. But I tried telling them that what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for me and that my son is my only concern as well as getting back onto my feet. I am just really hesitant to sue my child's grandparents but I cannot and will not allow them to try and take my kid from me. I already have a lawyer for the drunk driver and a few other things but I suppose I can also just hire them for this situation with my child's grandparents. Simply do not need this kind of pressure on me right now and it is not helpful and in fact is just making things worse.


Why would you need to sue them? 
Like you they are grieving, but unless you are on drugs or drink to excess, or are otherwise a neglectful or abusive dad, there is no way they will be able to get custody of their grandchild, so I wouldn't worry. 
Please please let them retain regular contact with their grandchild, it will benefit them and the child so much. The child will benefit from having a female role model as well.


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## TaDor

Female role model? He's recovering... 

They just threaten to take away his son for stupid reasons. People that crazy and dumb may become a liability for kidnapping - it happens.

An article on "grandparents" rights. Grandparent Rights? No! | The Huffington Post

He had an open door policy with them and his son... they came into his house and attempted to steal.

bu-Bye.


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## ILoveSparkles

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

One thing I want to suggest is only communicate via text or email so you have all contact documented. If you do speak to them, have a VAR so they cannot twist your words or tell people things that you didn't really say.


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## Diana7

TaDor said:


> Female role model? He's recovering...
> 
> They just threaten to take away his son for stupid reasons. People that crazy and dumb may become a liability for kidnapping - it happens.
> 
> An article on "grandparents" rights. Grandparent Rights? No! | The Huffington Post
> 
> He had an open door policy with them and his son... they came into his house and attempted to steal.
> 
> bu-Bye.


 They didnt attempt to steal, they made a suggestion.


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## TaDor

They had no justifications to make such a "suggestion".


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## giddiot

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## frusdil

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I used to be a drug addict but I turned my life around and have been sober for a very long time but I told my fiancee this when we first started dating just to be very upfront with her and let her know I had some demons. I got addicted to heroin when I was in high school and It was a dark time but with the help of family and friends I got clean went to college and graduated and had an incredibly amazing job. But because of that history I am short tempered from the pain I am in because I am not allowed to have pain killers.


Ah I suspected so. Well done for cleaning yourself up and turning your life around. I know that it can't have been easy. VERY impressive that you never hid this from your fiancee. Nice work 

Going forward, I would still consult with a lawyer for your own peace of mind. It does seem that, from what @EleGirl posted that they have no rights as such when it comes to your son. I do think that it will be good for your stress levels to have that information clarified by a lawyer. The last thing you need right now is more stress. The grandparents need to be reminded that they are dependent on your good will to be able to see their grandchild, and that they need to pull their heads in. 

That said, they too have lost someone. They've lost their child and don't want to lose their child's child as well. Please allow them to visit your son ONLY IN YOUR PRESENCE, never alone, nor allow them to take him anywhere. Until things settle down, don't let him out of your sight.





giddiot said:


> I implore you not to make this adversarial and prohibit the grandparents access to your son. Your fiancée would be horrified with you doing that. Remember they are grieving just like you. Meet with them and work this out. Let them help please.
> 
> PS: The grandparents bond and have as strong a love for their grandchildren as they do their own children.


With all due respect, the OP isn't the one who made this adversarial. The grandparents did.


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## giddiot

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## Justtryingtosurvive

I believe my reaction was justified and mild in all honesty, I cut them off from seeing my grandson and will consult with an attorney tomorrow. I don't trust them right now and if I can not trust them I do not feel comfortable having them around my son. When they can pull their heads out of their arses then I would probably allow them to see him again if not they will be cut off permanently. As for a female role model if he even needs such a thing, He has my sisters and my mother I believe that is enough female role models in all honesty.


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## giddiot

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## Justtryingtosurvive

I rather wish they would try and pull that on me and I would show the state how well my son is taken care of and loved. He is surrounded by love and caring people. I get the feeling I have stepped on your toes somehow with my situation and I am sorry if that is so but My son is in no danger and never will be he is loved and I am taking care of him.


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## frusdil

giddiot said:


> What made this adversarial if you read it was his "incredibly angry reaction and he lost it". He is only 25 years old and this is his first child. I would suspect he will need a lot of help raising his first child, it is certainly not an easy task. It will cause him a lot of stress.
> 
> I know I as a grandparent I would be concerned knowing the stress I was under with my children that he might fall back on his addiction. Whether that would happen or not I don't know.
> 
> You should really talk with her parents about how you want to keep your son but would like for them to be in his life and listen to what they have to say. That's a lot more sensible than his current action keeping him from his grandparents out of a lack of maturity.


I did read it. I too would react with anger if someone intimated that they were going to try to take my child away.

He has help from his family, and if you read my post I did say he should allow his fiancee's parents to see their grandchild, even if that means only in his presence until things settle down.

This is a highly stressful for situation for both the OP and the grandparents. Emotions are running high...everyone needs to calm down.


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## giddiot

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## giddiot

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## Diana7

TaDor said:


> They had no justifications to make such a "suggestion".


 We dont know the background.


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## MEM2020

Just,
Sounds like you are on rock solid ground here. Thing is - that being the case - you have little to fear from them. Best move is to talk to your lawyer - about how to 'manage' them - and find a way to allow them to be part of your support system.

Their fears are normal. I am not saying that they are 'valid', just normal. When you return to work - child care is going to be a big deal. These folks - their grandchild is all that is left of their daughter - so they will likely be super helpful to you. 

Yeah - yeah - I get it. Trying to take custody isn't exactly helpful - but show some compassion here. You lost your fiancée - they lost their daughter. I would let them use their one 'get out of jail free' card on this mistake they just made. 

Those two people - created the woman you planned to spend the rest of your life with. They are probably decent folks. 

So set them straight - firmly but politely - and then let them help you and their grandchild. 





Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I rather wish they would try and pull that on me and I would show the state how well my son is taken care of and loved. He is surrounded by love and caring people. I get the feeling I have stepped on your toes somehow with my situation and I am sorry if that is so but My son is in no danger and never will be he is loved and I am taking care of him.


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## giddiot

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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I believe my reaction was justified and mild in all honesty, I cut them off from seeing my grandson and will consult with an attorney tomorrow. I don't trust them right now and if I can not trust them I do not feel comfortable having them around my son. When they can pull their heads out of their arses then I would probably allow them to see him again if not they will be cut off permanently. As for a female role model if he even needs such a thing, He has my sisters and my mother I believe that is enough female role models in all honesty.


As a grandparent myself that is a very cruel and unjustified way to act. OK you have lost your fiance which is horrible, you have known maybe a few years, they have lost their daughter who they have dearly loved and cared for all her life. They now face you not letting them see her only child. 
Yes you have YOUR family, BUT is this what your fiance would have wanted? That you cut her mum and dad out of her child's life? That you react so badly to what was just a suggestion? 
You could have said that no, you will bring your child up, but you would love for them to regularly see the child and have a good relationship with him. Cutting your fiances family out of his life is wrong. They are part of his family as much as yours are. :frown2:


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## giddiot

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## Justtryingtosurvive

It wasn't a suggestion and did not come off as such and I reacted accordingly, I had an open door policy with them and then they tried to burn me. And even if I am on medical leave I am still bringing in a paycheck and can still take care of my son. I am not worried about them going to CPS I highly doubt they would and on the small off chance they might I do not fear CPS or them. If they wanted to be super helpful to me the way they tried wasn't the correct way to go about it. They are going to have to earn my trust back on my terms. Like I said I will consult with an attorney on Monday morning. I make near double what her parents make so this isn't even like where they could provide better for him either. And When I do return to work my parents will be watching over him and then I will get him on my way home from work ext.


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## giddiot

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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> It wasn't a suggestion and did not come off as such and I reacted accordingly, I had an open door policy with them and then they tried to burn me. And even if I am on medical leave I am still bringing in a paycheck and can still take care of my son. I am not worried about them going to CPS I highly doubt they would and on the small off chance they might I do not fear CPS or them. If they wanted to be super helpful to me the way they tried wasn't the correct way to go about it. They are going to have to earn my trust back on my terms. Like I said I will consult with an attorney on Monday morning. I make near double what her parents make so this isn't even like where they could provide better for him either. And When I do return to work my parents will be watching over him and then I will get him on my way home from work ext.


Why cant you let them look after the child one day a week when you go back to work? They are just as much his family as your parents are. He will benefit so much from knowing his own mothers family, and your parents may need a day off sometime? Do your parents not work?

Have an honest think about what you fiance would have said about this.


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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> It wasn't a suggestion and did not come off as such and I reacted accordingly, I had an open door policy with them and then they tried to burn me. And even if I am on medical leave I am still bringing in a paycheck and can still take care of my son. I am not worried about them going to CPS I highly doubt they would and on the small off chance they might I do not fear CPS or them. If they wanted to be super helpful to me the way they tried wasn't the correct way to go about it. They are going to have to earn my trust back on my terms. Like I said I will consult with an attorney on Monday morning. I make near double what her parents make so this isn't even like where they could provide better for him either. And When I do return to work my parents will be watching over him and then I will get him on my way home from work ext.


 Its not about the money.


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## MEM2020

Just,

Not defending their behavior - they screwed up. That said - your child has no mother and will benefit from a big support system.

Trust me on this - if you take a chance on them - when it works out - you will feel good about it. 

Same way your fiancée felt good about taking a chance on a recovering heroin addict. 

It is easy to have a focus for your anger - at having your life ripped apart - but that doesn't make it right. 






Justtryingtosurvive said:


> It wasn't a suggestion and did not come off as such and I reacted accordingly, I had an open door policy with them and then they tried to burn me. And even if I am on medical leave I am still bringing in a paycheck and can still take care of my son. I am not worried about them going to CPS I highly doubt they would and on the small off chance they might I do not fear CPS or them. If they wanted to be super helpful to me the way they tried wasn't the correct way to go about it. They are going to have to earn my trust back on my terms. Like I said I will consult with an attorney on Monday morning. I make near double what her parents make so this isn't even like where they could provide better for him either. And When I do return to work my parents will be watching over him and then I will get him on my way home from work ext.


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## EleGirl

@Justtryingtosurvive

How did they approach you? Did they say that they would like to take primary care and thought it would be good because of your history with drugs and because it's hard to raise a child alone?


Or did they also threaten you with going to court, going to CPS and other aggressive actions?

Did they yell at your or become loud, threatening, etc?

It would really help to know a bit more detail about this because I think different people are making different assumption here in responding to you.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Sorry sure, It felt like an ambush I got home from some physical therapy and they met me at the door and said they wanted custody because they were worried and also still not 100% trusting of me even though their daughter was. And when I told them not they got loud with me and then threatened me with court, Never mentioned CPS at all. Just really hard to trust them again right now after that, And I know they never truly accepted me or even liked me to be honest. And I don't understand why, Well I guess I do in a way I know she could have done loads better than me and I know she took a risk on me but she was honestly my everything. She was my reason for staying clean along with my son. Just honestly don't know how to go on right now and have been putting all of my strength into my son right now.


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## Satya

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry sure, It felt like an ambush I got home from some physical therapy and they met me at the door and said they wanted custody because they were worried and also still not 100% trusting of me even though their daughter was. And when I told them not they got loud with me and then threatened me with court, Never mentioned CPS at all. Just really hard to trust them again right now after that, And I know they never truly accepted me or even liked me to be honest. And I don't understand why, Well I guess I do in a way I know she could have done loads better than me and I know she took a risk on me but she was honestly my everything. She was my reason for staying clean along with my son. Just honestly don't know how to go on right now and have been putting all of my strength into my son right now.


Given the way they approached you, I think you're doing the right thing under the circumstances. 

I'd still go protect yourself legally and document everything to the letter. Write down the exact encounter with your in - laws.


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## TaDor

You will get there. The whole situation sucks.

You should be legally safe. From what you said - I wouldn't trust them. for a long long... long time. Threatened you with court - for what?!

Sorry you are going through this.


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## Maricha75

Satya said:


> Given the way they approached you, I think you're doing the right thing under the circumstances.
> 
> I'd still go protect yourself legally and document everything to the letter. Write down the exact encounter with your in - laws.


I completely agree. At least, until consulting an attorney and getting everything in order, I would cut them off, too. They had no business making such a "suggestion", and then threatening with court. In his shoes? I guarantee I would have done the same thing... even with my own parents, if they had ever approached me in that manner. I love(d) my parents, very much. God forbid, if I had died, I absolutely would hope my husband would take these steps if my parents ever approached him the way OP was approached.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry sure, It felt like an ambush I got home from some physical therapy and they met me at the door and said they wanted custody because they were worried and also still not 100% trusting of me even though their daughter was. And when I told them not they got loud with me and then threatened me with court, Never mentioned CPS at all. Just really hard to trust them again right now after that, And I know they never truly accepted me or even liked me to be honest. And I don't understand why, Well I guess I do in a way I know she could have done loads better than me and I know she took a risk on me but she was honestly my everything. She was my reason for staying clean along with my son. Just honestly don't know how to go on right now and have been putting all of my strength into my son right now.


Thanks for sharing more of how they approached you. I can see why it upset you so much. That was pretty confrontational.

They were not very smart either. They could have simply been as helpful to you as possible so that you and your son had the support you needed. And that way they also could have been able to make sure that there was no problem.

What you are dealing with is hard. Being an only parent is hard. But people do it all the time and do just fine. It will take time but you will be ok as long as you stick with all the success you have had over the past years.


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## Taxman

You are on the birth certificate as the father. You have been clean and sober for years. You have a mother, father and siblings as backup. See a lawyer, and ensure that nobody can interfere with your rights.

Inform them politely that if they ever ambush you again, it will be construed as harrassment. You will inform them that you will seek an order of protection against them.


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## WorkingOnMe

What kind of resources do they have? How about you? Sorry to be cynical but it seems like if it goes to court the winner will be whoever has and is willing to spend the most money. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyrealname4

@Justtryingtosurvive

When the dust settles and you have recuperated from the car accident, and are working again.....

What do you think it would take to reconcile your relationship with the grandparents?

I agree that what they did was wrong; and if I was you, I wouldn't trust them either.

But they are your kid's grandparents, and all he will ever know of his mom.

But definitely protect yourself in the meantime. I was just wondering about how you might feel differently in the future.

And congratulations for wanting to be an involved, loving Dad. I really admire guys who are like that.


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## Mizzbak

@Justtryingtosurvive

I am 100% on your side - your love and commitment to your son and his welfare come through loud and clear. I also cannot see how any legal battle on the part of your fiance's parents could be successful. 

I can understand why you might feel threatened by them because of the way that they acted; but from everything that you have told us, they have little or no power in this situation. If so, you don't have to fear them. But, you could pity them. Grief can make us all act crazy. It doesn't make what they did right, but do you think that could you ever forgive their behaviour in that context? Only you know what kind of relationship they had with your son's mother. But if there was love and caring and respect, then do you think that they would have had a good relationship with your family if she was still alive? If so, do you think that you could give this as a gift to her? 

Eventually when your son grows up, he will have questions about his mother. And you will be able to answer many of them. But some of them, you will not. My grandmother passed away many years ago. But when our family gets together and we tell stories about her, the new things and perspectives we find out from other family members, make her very real to all of us, all over again. 

I understand that you need to be strong right now, and your anger is righteous, because you are defending your family. And you should definitely consult an attorney as soon as you can. I also understand why you might not feel that you can trust them physically with your son. But, I can say that if you allowed them to see their grandson (have it supervised, if you are anxious), then that is a fair and wise decision - both to any judge that might ever be asked to consider your parenting priorities; and to your son - later when he understands about his mother's family. 

Thoughts are with you.


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## frusdil

Diana7 said:


> As a grandparent myself that is a very cruel and unjustified way to act. OK you have lost your fiance which is horrible, you have known maybe a few years, they have lost their daughter who they have dearly loved and cared for all her life. They now face you not letting them see her only child.
> Yes you have YOUR family, BUT is this what your fiance would have wanted? That you cut her mum and dad out of her child's life? That you react so badly to what was just a suggestion?
> You could have said that no, you will bring your child up, but you would love for them to regularly see the child and have a good relationship with him. Cutting your fiances family out of his life is wrong. They are part of his family as much as yours are. :frown2:


It wasn't a suggestion - they basically met him at the door, told him he can't properly care for his son and that they want to take him.

He can't let them look after him right now because he can't guarantee they won't flee with him.

OP's reaction was completely justified under the circumstances, were I in his shoes I'd have done the same thing, even with my own parents until things calmed down.


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## sidney2718

EleGirl said:


> Unless they can prove that you are a danger to your child, no they cannot take your child away from you.
> 
> I do think you need to read up on child custody issues and grand parent's rights in your state. They differ state to state. In most states you don't even have to ever let him see them again if you don't want to.
> 
> I also suggest that you see a lawyer for a consultation of how to protect your paternal rights if her parents try to come after you for custody.


Who is listed as the father of the child? Did your fiancee leave a will or any other legal document spelling out what was to happen in case of her death?

Is there any chance that you can be found criminally liable for the accident?

And this is not a question: lawyer up right away.


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## giddiot

.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

sidney2718 said:


> Who is listed as the father of the child? Did your fiancee leave a will or any other legal document spelling out what was to happen in case of her death?
> 
> Is there any chance that you can be found criminally liable for the accident?
> 
> And this is not a question: lawyer up right away.


How could I possibly be found criminally liable for a wreck I didn't cause? A drunk driver hit us and killed my fiancee, I and my fiancee were sober. No she didn't have a will as we were/are reltively young and wasn't expecting this at all. But I am on his BC as the father.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

WorkingOnMe said:


> What kind of resources do they have? How about you? Sorry to be cynical but it seems like if it goes to court the winner will be whoever has and is willing to spend the most money.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I pull in six figures a year her mom was on Disability and her father works as a real estate agent.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

notmyrealname4 said:


> @Justtryingtosurvive
> 
> When the dust settles and you have recuperated from the car accident, and are working again.....
> 
> What do you think it would take to reconcile your relationship with the grandparents?
> 
> I agree that what they did was wrong; and if I was you, I wouldn't trust them either.
> 
> But they are your kid's grandparents, and all he will ever know of his mom.
> 
> But definitely protect yourself in the meantime. I was just wondering about how you might feel differently in the future.
> 
> And congratulations for wanting to be an involved, loving Dad. I really admire guys who are like that.


Would take a lot in all honesty for me to trust them again and allow them around my son they would need to apologize and then only see my son under my supervision for the foreseeable future until I felt totally comfortable with them again.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

giddiot said:


> What do you think threatened you with court means, its starts with child protection services and a guardian ad litem appointed by the court for the welfare of the child. You journey is beginning. And I hope you and your family have deep pockets, it will cost a fortune.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not to be mean or blunt here but they don't have the money to outfight me in court. So as I said before I do not fear them. And I would spend every penny I have before I allowed them to take my son. And I realize you are rather hopeful they take me to court or call CPS on me for some reason and I just don't understand why. IF they do so be it but I haven't heard from them or an attorney so I am hoping they realised they fudged up and are just cooling it for a bit.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Mizzbak said:


> @Justtryingtosurvive
> 
> I am 100% on your side - your love and commitment to your son and his welfare come through loud and clear. I also cannot see how any legal battle on the part of your fiance's parents could be successful.
> 
> I can understand why you might feel threatened by them because of the way that they acted; but from everything that you have told us, they have little or no power in this situation. If so, you don't have to fear them. But, you could pity them. Grief can make us all act crazy. It doesn't make what they did right, but do you think that could you ever forgive their behaviour in that context? Only you know what kind of relationship they had with your son's mother. But if there was love and caring and respect, then do you think that they would have had a good relationship with your family if she was still alive? If so, do you think that you could give this as a gift to her?
> 
> Eventually when your son grows up, he will have questions about his mother. And you will be able to answer many of them. But some of them, you will not. My grandmother passed away many years ago. But when our family gets together and we tell stories about her, the new things and perspectives we find out from other family members, make her very real to all of us, all over again.
> 
> I understand that you need to be strong right now, and your anger is righteous, because you are defending your family. And you should definitely consult an attorney as soon as you can. I also understand why you might not feel that you can trust them physically with your son. But, I can say that if you allowed them to see their grandson (have it supervised, if you are anxious), then that is a fair and wise decision - both to any judge that might ever be asked to consider your parenting priorities; and to your son - later when he understands about his mother's family.
> 
> Thoughts are with you.


They were close with my fiancee but to reconcile with them as I said above will take awhile and I am not going to beg to have them in my or my sons life either. I did nothing wrong and nor have I done anything wrong, I Don't pitty them at all. They only ever accepted me and that was only ever after my fiancee point blank told them that nothing they could do or say would ever change the fact that we loved each other and were going to be getting married.


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## TaDor

giddiot said:


> What do you think threatened you with court means, its starts with child protection services and a guardian ad litem appointed by the court for the welfare of the child. You journey is beginning. And I hope you and your family have deep pockets, it will cost a fortune.


Any good judge will throw it out. A possible warning shot back is "If you attempt to take me to court based on bullcrap - it will be a fight you will lose, and badly. We are all grieving - hopefully you will cool your jets."


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## TRy

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> It wasn't a suggestion and did not come off as such and I reacted accordingly, I had an open door policy with them and then they tried to burn me.


 Tell her parents that during this difficult time, they have chosen to be part of the problem. If they want you to view them as part of the solution, they need to step up right now and give you their full support. If they do not give you their full support, then they need to accept the consequences of their actions, and they will have no one to blame but themselves. Also tell them that just in case, you are getting legal advice so that you will be prepared for all out war to protect your child, and that when it come to protecting your child, you will take no prisoners.

Then look them in the eyes and ask them do you have their full support,yes or no? After asking this question, stop talking. If after a few minutes they do not answer the question, tell them that in not saying yes, you have all the answer that you need and that war it is. Then end the conversation. Good luck and be well.


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## Taxman

Justtryingtosurvive
First; My heart goes out to you sir. I cannot fathom having a tragedy of this monumental nature befall myself and my child. You are a rock, sir. You are doing everything that you can in these awful circumstances. 

Simply put, your in-laws are idiots. Use every resource at your fingertips to keep them from your son. Surround him with your family, love, and affection. These people have some screwed up ideas on parenting and grandparenting. If I were in their shoes, I would have immediately volunteered to help you and my grandchild, not show up on the doorstep and demand custody. Instead of tearing down, I would be building my relationship with my son in law and my grandchild. 

You are doing right, and for what it is worth, we are in your corner.
I am afraid that if it were me, I would have a desperately hard time reconciling with these obviously entitled and foolish individuals. They may have been your fiance's parents, but they are sorely lacking in tact and humanity. The very idea of trying to take a child from his father is nauseating.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

So they came over today trying to get my son from me to take for a couple nights but luckily My Mom and sisters were there as witnesses and when I said not they got extremely upset and acted like I was the bad guy. And when I tried explaining why they couldn't have him under any circumstances right now because they broke my trust they got irate and I calmly told them they had to go. I talked with a family law attorney and put him on retainer for now just in case something happens, I do not think there is much else I can honestly do to protect myself. Don't know why they are being so unreasonable and upset what they did was totally unacceptable and they broke the trust that was between us.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I rather wish they would try and pull that on me and I would show the state how well my son is taken care of and loved. He is surrounded by love and caring people. I get the feeling I have stepped on your toes somehow with my situation and I am sorry if that is so but My son is in no danger and never will be he is loved and I am taking care of him.


Unfortunately CPS is an out of control organization that often operates outside the law. They can be extremely difficult to deal with.

You really do need an attorney to help you understand what your rights and responsibilities are.

This is not about how much money either of you makes. The court will not see it that way.

Furthermore, I don't know how you know how much money they make, but there are plenty of real estate agents that make in the high six figures. My dad was a real estate agent for years. I remember him saying he made well over 100K per year 30 years ago. We were upper middle class. I have known a lot of real estate agents and many who easily make six figures. So they may be able to fight you on this, but even if they don't have a lot of money, they can still petition the court for visitation and they will get it. It is much better for you to work this out amicably, after getting advice from an attorney on how to do this, than to take a hard stand against them.

Edited due to me not understanding the likelihood of grandparents obtaining legal rights for visitation.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

CynthiaDe said:


> Unfortunately CPS is an out of control organization that often operates outside the law. They can be extremely difficult to deal with.
> 
> Elegirl already posted this link, but I'm going to post it again. Your son's grandparents have legal rights that WILL be granted if they go to court over this. https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=26.09.240
> 
> You really do need an attorney to help you understand what your rights and responsibilities are and to help you come to a reasonable agreement with the boy's grandparents.
> 
> This is not about how much money either of you makes. The court will not see it that way. According to Washington State law, the grandparents have legal rights to have a relationship with their grandchild.
> 
> *Furthermore, I don't know how you know how much money they make*, but there are plenty of real estate agents that make in the high six figures. My dad was a real estate agent for years. I remember him saying he made well over 100K per year 30 years ago. We were upper middle class. I have known a lot of real estate agents and many who easily make six figures. So they may be able to fight you on this, but even if they don't have a lot of money, they can still petition the court for visitation and they will get it. It is much better for you to work this out amicably, after getting advice from an attorney on how to do this, than to take a hard stand against them.


Because before my fiancee died we were doing there taxes. So yes I know exactly how much money they have brough it.


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## EleGirl

CynthiaDe said:


> Unfortunately CPS is an out of control organization that often operates outside the law. They can be extremely difficult to deal with.
> 
> Elegirl already posted this link, but I'm going to post it again. Your son's grandparents have legal rights that WILL be granted if they go to court over this. https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=26.09.240
> 
> You really do need an attorney to help you understand what your rights and responsibilities are and to help you come to a reasonable agreement with the boy's grandparents.


I believe that I also posted another link to a site that said that right now in Washington state, grandparents can only exercise those rights if a custody case is already in front ot the court... say if there is a divorce, they can join in and ask for time with the child(ren) as part of the custody agreement.

But grandparents cannot start a case to get visitation if there is custody case in the courts already (presumably being negotiation between the child(ren)'s parents).

Even if the grandparents were able to go to court, all they can get is visitation.... a few hours a month most likely. There would be designated times/dates. So if they break that agreement... say the refuse to give the child back, they would be in contempt of court.

Just could also ask that they only get supervised visitation because of him harassing him trying to take the child away from him.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> So they came over today trying to get my son from me to take for a couple nights but luckily My Mom and sisters were there as witnesses and when I said not they got extremely upset and acted like I was the bad guy. And when I tried explaining why they couldn't have him under any circumstances right now because they broke my trust they got irate and I calmly told them they had to go. I talked with a family law attorney and put him on retainer for now just in case something happens, I do not think there is much else I can honestly do to protect myself. Don't know why they are being so unreasonable and upset what they did was totally unacceptable and they broke the trust that was between us.


That's just crazy.

Had they spoken to you at all before coming over to try to get him? Or did they just show up and start demanding to take him?

Did the lawyer say anything about what you can do to protect yourself and your son? You don't want these people coming over to your house like that. They sound unhinged. Are they normally unhinged, overly excitable, etc?


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## Cynthia

I believe I was wrong. I just read this and it tells a completely different story: Grandparent Visitation Rights | ElderLawAnswers

However, I still would not trust CPS and I think it's best that you consult an attorney who understands your parental rights. I personally think that the way your almost in-laws treated you was way out of line.

I'm sorry you have lost your fiancee and have been injured. You must be going through a terrible time. I can only imagine trying to get through this without any pain relief. It must be make it that much worse.

edit to add: I recommend you get a will immediately that assigns custody of your child to someone you trust and who agrees to be your son's guardian if you should die. Hopefully and probably this will not happen, but if it does, the court would decide who the child would live with if you don't have a will. That decision is best made by you and declared in your will.

Have you applied for social security benefits for your son due to the loss of his mother? You may not feel you need this, but you can put it away in a trust fund for your son that will start him off on a very good footing when he turns 18.


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## Maricha75

CynthiaDe said:


> I believe I was wrong. I just read this and it tells a completely different story: Grandparent Visitation Rights | ElderLawAnswers
> 
> However, I still would not trust CPS and I think it's best that you consult an attorney who understands your parental rights. I personally think that the way your almost in-laws treated you was way out of line.
> 
> I'm sorry you have lost your fiancee and have been injured. You must be going through a terrible time. I can only imagine trying to get through this without any pain relief. It must be make it that much worse.
> 
> edit to add: I recommend you get a will immediately that assigns custody of your child to someone you trust and who agrees to be your son's guardian if you should die. Hopefully and probably this will not happen, but if it does, the court would decide who the child would live with if you don't have a will. That decision is best made by you and declared in your will.
> 
> *Have you applied for social security benefits for your son due to the loss of his mother? You may not feel you need this, but you can put it away in a trust fund for your son that will start him off on a very good footing when he turns 18.*


I did PM him about this. And suggested that he have his mom or sister or another trusted family member set up as payee, that way there is no chance her parents could suggest he is getting and using the money for himself (thoygh the money has to be accounted for, anyway, at the end of the year). 

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## Cynthia

Maricha75 said:


> I did PM him about this. And suggested that he have his mom or sister or another trusted family member set up as payee, that way there is no chance her parents could suggest he is getting and using the money for himself (thoygh the money has to be accounted for, anyway, at the end of the year).


The money is not an allowance. It is meant to help support the child, so it can be used for food, clothing, shelter, transportation, entertainment, etc.


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## JohnA

Money is very fungible.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> That's just crazy.
> 
> Had they spoken to you at all before coming over to try to get him? Or did they just show up and start demanding to take him?
> 
> Did the lawyer say anything about what you can do to protect yourself and your son? You don't want these people coming over to your house like that. They sound unhinged. Are they normally unhinged, overly excitable, etc?


They texted me saying they were gonna come over to visit my son and I. But I didn't respond to them at all, They aren't normally like this at all usually they are pretty stable and levelheaded. Lawyer said to get an order of protection if they keep on being harassing and demanding like this.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

And no I haven't applied for social security for my son it wasn't even on my mind to do that.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> And no I haven't applied for social security for my son it wasn't even on my mind to do that.


You really should apply for it. He gets it regardless of your income. That money was taken out of his mother's paycheck. Sadly she will never get to collect it. So her son might as well benefit from it.

I agree with the idea of putting the money in a trust for him. I could end up paying a lot towards his college, or towards a house purchase, etc.

My parents has 8 children. When my father died there were still 3 elementary school age children at home. My mother got the social security payments from my father's SS to help her support the 3 little kids (as we called them).


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## EleGirl

Here is some Social Security info.


https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10085.pdf


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## Diana7

What would your fiance have said about this? Would she want her own mum and dad to be banned from seeing her child? They have lost their daughter, now you are stopping them from seeing their grandchild. OK so they haven't handled this very well, give them a break and let them see him. Why cant they have him for an afternoon? They are his grandparents just as much as your parents are. They must be heartbroken. They are afraid of losing their only connection to their daughter and you are doing to them exactly what they feared would happen. 

How about you say to them that if they stop this talk of wanting him full time they can see him once a week. You have to work, they can care for him one day to give your parents a break. It would benefit you all.


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## Maricha75

CynthiaDe said:


> The money is not an allowance. It is meant to help support the child, so it can be used for food, clothing, shelter, transportation, entertainment, etc.


I know how it works. My husband and his brother got it when their dad died. My sister's got it when my dad became disabled. My niece gets it/nephew got it because of their father's disability. My children also receive it. So, I am well aware tgat it is not an allowance. I know very well that there is a payee for the benefits, and that the payee has to show what those benefits were used for, and how much was saved. The reason I suggested that he ask his mom or sister to be the payee was because of the tension with the other grandparents, and so they cannot accuse him of using the child's money for himself. I suggested it as a protection for himself, so they cannot say he is using the child's money, going back to his past. Or, as was suggested, put it in a trust if it is not something necessary to help with raising him. Either way, take steps to ensure that any accusations they may make will have absolutely no basis. That's all I was saying.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Maricha75

Diana7 said:


> What would your fiance have said about this? Would she want her own mum and dad to be banned from seeing her child? They have lost their daughter, now you are stopping them from seeing their grandchild. OK so they haven't handled this very well, give them a break and let them see him. Why cant they have him for an afternoon? They are his grandparents just as much as your parents are. They must be heartbroken. They are afraid of losing their only connection to their daughter and you are doing to them exactly what they feared would happen.
> 
> How about you say to them that if they stop this talk of wanting him full time they can see him once a week. You have to work, they can care for him one day to give your parents a break. It would benefit you all.


No, Diana. I understand what you are suggesting, but no. Given the threat they made, they are a risk for taking off with the child. If anything, supervised visits for now. 

I understand that you are a grandparent, but you are glossing over the threat of taking OP to court to get custody of the baby. Even allowing them one day a week is all it would take for them to kidnap him. And, yes, anyone desperate enough to threaten court for custody IS desperate enough to kidnap the baby.

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## Satya

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> So they came over today trying to get my son from me to take for a couple nights but luckily My Mom and sisters were there as witnesses and when I said not they got extremely upset and acted like I was the bad guy. And when I tried explaining why they couldn't have him under any circumstances right now because they broke my trust they got irate and I calmly told them they had to go. I talked with a family law attorney and put him on retainer for now just in case something happens, I do not think there is much else I can honestly do to protect myself. Don't know why they are being so unreasonable and upset what they did was totally unacceptable and they broke the trust that was between us.


Document EVERY encounter with them. Time, place, content, tone. 

And get your mom and sisters to write witness statements and sign them. 

Is never a bad idea to protect yourself.


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## arbitrator

*I have absolutely no problem with grandparents supervised visitation rights with the child!

But for rather obvious reasons, do have a big, burly, muscled-up, "nanny" present who possibly works for the local sheriff's department!*


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## giddiot

.


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## giddiot

.


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## giddiot

.


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## Maricha75

I'm sorry, giddiot, but I disagree. You cannot negotiate with people who have threatened to take you to court to take custody of your child... nor would I ever advise someone to do so. Until tensions have settled, I would not trust that they wouldn't take off with him. Which is why I, as well as others, have suggested supervised visits. 

Sure, CPS may get involved. But if they see no evidence of the child being mistreated by his dad, and not being neglected, it will be an open and shut case.

You, like Diana, are speaking from the POV of a grandparent. But, I would be willing to bet that, had your own parents or in-laws tried to pull what OP has faced, you would have reacted the same way many of us have stated... cutting them off or supervised visits only. 

At this point, negotiations are not advisable... unless you consider supervision a good suggestion to negotiate... as in 1 day a week, supervised vs more than 1 day a week supervised. Regardless, supervised is the only thing I would suggest for now.

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## 225985

giddiot said:


> This is IMO the only way you can stop this from getting really bad.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You don't negotiate with terrorists or thieves. They want to steal a baby from its father. How utterly despicable.

The death was a tragedy. The parents should be helping their SIL and grandchild. They shouldn't try to be legally taking the baby under force of law and guns via the court from a father that is not negligent. 

Totally evil and selfish. Makes me sick. Worse than cheating.


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## Thor

Ok, Devil's Advocate post. You sound very logical and normal, but ... is there any chance there is some validity in the in-laws' concern about your ability to parent? Did you have a brain injury? Do you have a substance abuse problem? Is it likely you will never work again due to your injuries?

It does sound like they are totally out of line, but all we have to go on here is what you post. If there is anything in your situation which may be a negative factor, you should seek to be aware of it and to do what is right for your child.

If you think there is any possibility of an issue such as from a brain injury, I would would have a frank talk with your mother and doctor to get their opinion.


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## Satya

If they had the best interest of the child in mind, they'd have acknowledged the father's track record SINCE he became clean. They'd look at how he is as a father CURRENTLY. They'd also not be so quick to take a child away from a parent that he has known. Just the fact that it would destabilize the child is enough for me to believe that they are selfish and only want what they want, and will do whatever they think is necessary (browbeat, force) to get what they want. That is bullying, not parenting.

And that is not loving behavior toward the OP's family unit (body and spirit), not at all.

ETA: if there were a middle ground here - if the grandparents were being reasonable in their behavior, I'd have a different opinion. I'd encourage the OP to open up conversation with them to help determine what is best. But as it stands (and of course we only have the OPs side), I think that the in-laws can get bent.... at least until they have settled down... not to put too fine a point on it.


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## WonkyNinja

WorkingOnMe said:


> What kind of resources do they have? How about you? Sorry to be cynical but it seems like if it goes to court the winner will be whoever has and is willing to spend the most money.


Not true. A court will rule on which situation is in the best interests of the child. 

Since he is now sole legal guardian they will have to prove that he is an unfit parent to have his parental rights removed. Only then can they start the application to adopt their grandson.


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## WonkyNinja

Diana7 said:


> *What would your fiance have said about this?* Would she want her own mum and dad to be banned from seeing her child? They have lost their daughter, now you are stopping them from seeing their grandchild. OK so they haven't handled this very well, give them a break and let them see him. Why cant they have him for an afternoon? They are his grandparents just as much as your parents are. They must be heartbroken. They are afraid of losing their only connection to their daughter and you are doing to them exactly what they feared would happen.
> 
> How about you say to them that if they stop this talk of wanting him full time they can see him once a week. You have to work, they can care for him one day to give your parents a break. It would benefit you all.


What do you think she'd have said to her parents had they tried to take custody of the son from them both before the crash? 
What do you think she'd say now when her parents try and take the son from the man that SHE chose to have a family with?

The grandparents being banned from seeing the child is a very reasonable response to their threat to take him away from his parent. In my opinion leaving the child alone with them for any time would be grossly irresponsible of him.

I agree that they must be heartbroken. They could have showed up and grieved with him, and the one thing that is left of their daughter, as a family but they chose to show up with insults and threats. 

It should be a long time before he even considers leaving his son alone with them.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> They texted me saying they were gonna come over to visit my son and I. But I didn't respond to them at all, They aren't normally like this at all usually they are pretty stable and levelheaded. Lawyer said to get an order of protection if they keep on being harassing and demanding like this.


They ought to be apologizing rather than demanding anything. To treat you this way when you are grieving and injured is terrible. 

As a grandparent, I understand the love a grandparent has for their grandchild. My grandbaby certainly has my heart. But I cannot imagine taking such a stance as these grandparents have taken. They are not thinking of the best interests of their grandchild or even about their relationship with him. It's stupid of them to act like this. Frankly I wouldn't blame you if you did take out a protection order against them after what they have said to you, especially as they are disregarding you as a parent. This is their grandchild, not their child. No matter how much they love this child, they are walking on thin ice.

I thought that in the case of the death of one parent that you would have no choice but to give them visitation, but after looking into it further I found out that I was wrong, so my opinion on what should be done has completely changed. If you will be forced to deal with them, then better to try to make it work, but since it looks like they really have no rights whatsoever, then you don't have to put up with their shenanigans and I personally think you are taking the right course of action in dealing with them. They are way out of line and fortunately you do not have to tolerate it.

I believe in the power of relationship between grandchildren and grandparents. I have examples in my own life of how wonderful that is. And now, as a grandmother, I am thrilled to be building a close, loving relationship with my grandchild. However, I also cut my father off my from children and stopped contact with him when he was taking liberties with my children by exposing them to things that I believed were harmful and he was also undermining me to them. When he did that, he lost his privilege to have any sort of relationship with them. So I do believe that taking a hard line is appropriate when a grandparent decides they are going to take over and stand between a child and his parent. 

If they were to repent of their interference in the parent/child relationship, then maybe a solution could be found, but these grandparents have shown no remorse whatsoever. They are still demanding and have not in any way shown they regret their adversarial behavior.


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## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> What would your fiance have said about this? Would she want her own mum and dad to be banned from seeing her child? They have lost their daughter, now you are stopping them from seeing their grandchild. OK so they haven't handled this very well, give them a break and let them see him. Why cant they have him for an afternoon? They are his grandparents just as much as your parents are. They must be heartbroken. They are afraid of losing their only connection to their daughter and you are doing to them exactly what they feared would happen.
> 
> How about you say to them that if they stop this talk of wanting him full time they can see him once a week. You have to work, they can care for him one day to give your parents a break. It would benefit you all.


She might say: "Mom, Dad, shame on you! My fiancee and me brought a baby into the world and we were making our own family. A drunk driver damaged our family by killing me. Now you want to destroy it by taking our son away from my husband!"


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## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> What would your fiance have said about this? Would she want her own mum and dad to be banned from seeing her child? They have lost their daughter, now you are stopping them from seeing their grandchild. OK so they haven't handled this very well, give them a break and let them see him. Why cant they have him for an afternoon? They are his grandparents just as much as your parents are. They must be heartbroken. They are afraid of losing their only connection to their daughter and you are doing to them exactly what they feared would happen.
> 
> How about you say to them that if they stop this talk of wanting him full time they can see him once a week. You have to work, they can care for him one day to give your parents a break. It would benefit you all.


Seriously?!
If either of my parents tried to take my child away from my husband if I were dead, I would roll over in my grave, come back to haunt my family and to tell my husband to end contact with a parent who would do such a thing as these grandparents have done. 

This child is not their only connection to their daughter. She was their flesh and blood. They raised her. She is a part of who they are as individuals now. They will never lose that connection with their daughter. Maybe part of their problem is believing they own this child and he is the connection they need. 

No one owns the child, but he belongs with his father. To try to take that away from him is unconscionable. The boy has lost his mother and now they want to utterly destroy his family. Something is seriously wrong with them. They should be doing whatever they can to offer loving support to their grandson and his father, instead they make crazy demands and kick him while he's down. With friends like that we don't need enemies.

Yes, they are heartbroken. When people are at their lowest is often when their real character comes out. They are showing who they are. Better to know now early on than after they have made inroads into driving a wedge between father and son.

It would be a terrible thing if this boy never knows his mother's family and hopefully the grandparents have a change of heart and offer up some way to make amends and have a relationship with their grandson. Extreme caution is necessary when dealing with people like this.


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## giddiot

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## 225985

giddiot said:


> I really don't care what you think. Just like most everything else out here you have tried and hung the grandparents from hearing only one side of the issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes. And I am right. Let's see how you react if someone steals your kids. Jeez.


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## giddiot

.


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## Maricha75

giddiot said:


> Sure you are or at least think you are.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think he's right, as do the majority of the posters on this thread. I'm sorry, but I really don't believe you would be saying this if your son had been injured in a car accident, and your granddaughter's mother had been killed in that accident. And then, her parents come to your son and say they want custody of your granddaughter. Really? You think he would respond favorably to that? And be open to negotiating with them? I don't. And I wouldn't negotiate with someone threatening to take me to court, to take MY child away from me. And, I bet YOU wouldn't negotiate under those circumstances, either. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## naiveonedave

T/J - I could see CPS doing something ridiculous, as @giddiot is suggesting. They are notorious for screwing fathers all the time. But here, seems very unlikely and it would be incredibly wrong. But anything is possible with the amount of man hate in some CPS organizations (and the pure parent hate in many as well). End T/J


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## giddiot

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## Cynthia

giddiot said:


> I have been through a custody battle with my grandchild being abused.


There is no indication of abuse here. The OP didn't even say that they accused him of abuse. Protecting a grandchild from abuse is a completely different situation than what is being shown here. If there is no abuse, there is no acceptable reason why the grandparents would want to remove a child from his father. From what you have said, you didn't simply decide that you thought it was best for your grandchild to be with you rather than his/her parents. You were protecting him/her from abuse. Totally different scenario than what is being presented here.


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## Diana7

Maricha75 said:


> No, Diana. I understand what you are suggesting, but no. Given the threat they made, they are a risk for taking off with the child. If anything, supervised visits for now.
> 
> I understand that you are a grandparent, but you are glossing over the threat of taking OP to court to get custody of the baby. Even allowing them one day a week is all it would take for them to kidnap him. And, yes, anyone desperate enough to threaten court for custody IS desperate enough to kidnap the baby.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


No they wont kidnap him, they have a home and presumably family and jobs. 

If My son died I hope that my daughter in law would let us carry on regular contact with my grandchildren. I know she would because that's the sort of person she is. 
I can understand their fears and desperation.


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## Maricha75

giddiot said:


> I have been through a custody battle with my grandchild being abused.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok? I, too, have dealt with cases of abuse (and neglect). Not of my own children, but of children I know. But this is not the situation being presented. In the situation of abuse, I would understand. But when there is no indication of abuse, it is not something that would be up for negotiation. Not after being hit with a threat of custody battle. And I would definitely advise supervised visits with a grandparent who tried such an action... And ONLY supervised visits, until I was comfortable with more than that. I certainly would not trust that they wouldn't try to kidnap my child, if I were in OP shoes. Not after the way they approached him. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

CynthiaDe said:


> There is no indication of abuse here. The OP didn't even say that they accused him of abuse. Protecting a grandchild from abuse is a completely different situation than what is being shown here. If there is no abuse, there is no acceptable reason why the grandparents would want to remove a child from his father. From what you have said, you didn't simply decide that you thought it was best for your grandchild to be with you rather than his/her parents. You were protecting him/her from abuse. Totally different scenario than what is being presented here.


In the end we only have one side of the story. We dont know why they have such fears for the child, we don't know what their daughter told them.


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## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> In the end we only have one side of the story. We dont know why they have such fears for the child, we don't know what their daughter told them.


We are responding to the information we have. If you think something else might be going on, then ask the OP. As it stands, there is no indication of abuse and the grandparents have threatened to take the grandchild away. Telling him to let them take the child and be nice about it under those circumstances is not a healthy boundary. It enables bad behavior and could potentially put the child in danger.

If new information become available, then people will answer based on that information. Right now, you are speculating that there must be a reasonable explanation for the grandparents behavior. The OP already told us that they are worried about him relapsing in his drug addiction and that seems to be the reason for their fear.

It's okay to disagree, but if all the facts are as presented, the grandparents don't appear to have a leg to stand on in regards to their demands. Setting healthy boundaries with people who are threatening to destroy your family is a reasonable action, even if those people are upset. There is no excuse for their behavior and threats. Now they are going to have to live with the consequences of their behavior. I don't feel sorry for them, but I do feel bad for the little boy. It's not his fault that his grandparents are threatening his father.


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## Maricha75

Diana7 said:


> No they wont kidnap him, they have a home and presumably family and jobs.
> 
> If My son died I hope that my daughter in law would let us carry on regular contact with my grandchildren. I know she would because that's the sort of person she is.
> I can understand their fears and desperation.


Except, you DON'T know that. These people threatened to take OP to court to get custody of HIS son. That is the kind of people who WOULD kidnap a child when they learned the law is on the dad's side... Which it is. He did not show ANY indication that he would keep his son from them, Diana, until they threatened to TAKE him away from him. 

I love my dad. I loved my mom. I loved my mother-in-law. But if my husband died and my mother-in-law had come to me, saying she was going to take me to court to get custody of MY children? It would be a cold day in you know where before I would have allowed her access to them. 

Had her parents approached him, and said "we know you're recovering and going through physical therapy, and we'd like to help you out by watching your son a couple nights a week" or "would it be ok for is to take your son overnight a couple nights a week, or maybe a weekend or two each month, to help you out and to keep our bond with him/help relieve some of our grief" OP probably would have bern receptive... as would I. But the way they approached him? Nope. That's the sort of behavior that gets you cut off from family. They can redeem themselves, in time. But it will take time. For now, OP is right to deny access, unless supervised.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## giddiot

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## giddiot

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## Cynthia

giddiot said:


> I didn't say there was, I was accused of not having gone through this, I have been in a custody case.


Respectfully, you haven't been through this. You were rescuing your grandchild from an abusive situation. The laws are different for what you went through and the situation is different. You had a valid reason to remove your grandchild and the courts agreed with you. This is a father who has no history of abuse who is being threatened by his child's grandparents due to a fear that he could relapse. He hasn't relapsed and he is working hard towards recovering physically from his injuries. Yet they threatened to try to gain custody of his son. Of course he doesn't want to give his son over to them. Not even for a visit at this point. 

If you were in a situation where your grandson's other grandparent came and threatened to take him away from you because of the trauma you went through in the court case to take custody of him, you would be wary of them too.


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## giddiot

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## Maricha75

giddiot said:


> And neither do you. Quit threadjacking attacking me. I am not trying to talk to the OP and tell him what think is best for him to do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The response you quoted was responding to Diana, not you. I have not attacked you, at all. I disagree with you, but have not attacked. And I never once accused you of not going through a custody battle. What I said was that your situation is not what the OP is dealing with. And it isn't. We all have opinions on the subject matter. But you seem hellbent on indicating that CPS will definitely get involved, and that the grandparents are going to take the child for sure, if they enlist the help of CPS. CPS may get involved, but when they see that he is not being abused, not being neglected, and is healthy and happy, it will be open and shut, in favor of OP. You are using your situation, in the case if your grandchild's abuse, as the basis for this, trying to scare him into giving in to the people who threatened to take his son away from him. I'm sorry, but that would not fly with me. Nor would it have gone over well with my parents. 

Now, as for this being a threadjack, I disagree, but only because you seem to think that CPS involvement is absolute and that you seem to think OP is going to lose if they get involved. I do believe discussing cutting off people who threaten to take away his child is relevant, which is wh at I have said. You don't have to agree. Neither does Diana. But neither of us is likely to change each other's minds. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## 225985

giddiot said:


> I also don't care what you think either. Like I told the last person, quit thread jacking attacking me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It's not your thread and it's only threadjacking when you respond back. 

The mods are going to shut this down. Address the OP.


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## WorkingOnMe

Reading how people feel about grandparents who use the courts to take children it's easy to understand Gidiot acting defensive and projecting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maricha75

WorkingOnMe said:


> Reading how people feel about grandparents who use the courts to take children it's easy to understand Gidiot acting defensive and projecting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can't speak for everyone in the thread, but I can honestly say I would have NO problem with grandparents going to court, IF there was basis. But, the OP has given no indication of that. If OP situation wad like giddiot's, I would be siding with giddiot on this one. But there is nothing in the OP posts that indicate this. And, I may be wrong, but OP seems to be the type who, if they just asked to see the boy regularly, without custody threats, he would have been fine with that, even welcoming it. If not, well, then he and I would definitely be disagreeing, too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Mizzbak

@Justtryingtosurvive

From the aditional information that you have posted about your fiancee's parent's behaviour, it seems to me that you have done the right thing by getting legal advice. I agree with many of the posters here, that for them to threaten the action that they have at this time shows a great lack of empathy and very poor judgement. 

From what you have written, this behaviour is not in line with what you previously knew of them. They may not have approved of you, but if they trusted you with doing their taxes, they were certainly accepting of your pending role in becoming part of their family. Which is why I still think that their current behaviour is being infuenced heavily by their grief and feeling of being powerless in this situation. 

I can completely understand that you would feel great anger and bitterness towards them. But I hope that in time, if they see the wrong in what they have done, you would be open to them being part of your son's life again.


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## Primrose

Diana7 said:


> If My son died I hope that my daughter in law would let us carry on regular contact with my grandchildren. I know she would because that's the sort of person she is.
> I can understand their fears and desperation.


Would you have gone to your DIL demanding full custody of your grandchild if your son has tragically passed? 

It seems that the OP was more than willing to allow his wife's parents to carry on regular contact. Then they swept the rug from underneath him by threatening to take him to court for custody of HIS child. They drew this red line. He didn't. 

I'm incredibly close to my children's' grandparents. Incredibly so. But if they did to me what OP's in-laws did to him, I, too, would cease contact until I knew all my legal ducks were in a row.


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## DualvansMommy

Diana7 said:


> No they wont kidnap him, they have a home and presumably family and jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> If My son died I hope that my daughter in law would let us carry on regular contact with my grandchildren. I know she would because that's the sort of person she is.
> 
> I can understand their fears and desperation.




How naive of you! Just because they have jobs and families, it doesn't stop them from kid napping their grandson when they're quite desperate to. Why would OP even want to risk it?? 

I knew of a family personally whose kid got kidnapped by the grandparents along with the mother in a divorce custody. They all supposedly had jobs and families in the region, certainly didn't stop them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## MattMatt

giddiot said:


> And neither do you. Quit threadjacking attacking me. I am not trying to talk to the OP and tell him what think is best for him to do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Moderator message

Whilst I and everyone else is very sympathetic to the terrible struggle you went through having to save your grandchild, your case and this case is comparing apples with oranges.

Please, no more threadjacks, @giddiot, OK?


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## Diana7

Primrose said:


> Would you have gone to your DIL demanding full custody of your grandchild if your son has tragically passed?
> 
> It seems that the OP was more than willing to allow his wife's parents to carry on regular contact. Then they swept the rug from underneath him by threatening to take him to court for custody of HIS child. They drew this red line. He didn't.
> 
> I'm incredibly close to my children's' grandparents. Incredibly so. But if they did to me what OP's in-laws did to him, I, too, would cease contact until I knew all my legal ducks were in a row.


If I felt I had really good reason I may look into it. My DIL is a very capable mum and person who has never been in trouble, so I wouldn't need to. As I said it would be interesting to hear what they say. We don't know what their daughter told them or what they know or have seen. People don't usually do things like this for no reason. 
Are we getting the full story? We don't know. People will say what they want others to hear.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I haven't ever abused my son nor would I ever do such a thing, I know my past and I know the demons I face but I love my son so much and am honestly doing the best that I can do alone and with family support. I had an open door with them and they spat on that, I understand people do strange things when grieving but I am equally grieving here but I am burying that for the sake of my son and I will be returning to work in about a few weeks if things go as planned and I hope. I don't know what else I can honestly do When they want to calm down and act rationally and reasonably perhaps we can somehow get back onto good terms and they can see their grandchild as much as they want.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

To add on and sorry for this but how they treated me even when their daughter was alive this just reinforces my feelings about them. All they have ever cared about is my past and have held that over my head as if it condemns me for the entirety of my life. While not caring about how long I have been clean or that I went to college and got my degree and then moved on and got an amazing job. Nope, none of that matters to these people and I won't be bullied when it comes to my son. I just refuse and have drawn that line like I said in the other post if they can not act like complete lunatics then perhaps we can work something out and get on some kind of better footing. But until they show me they can be trusted again they can go kick rocks for all I care.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> If I felt I had really good reason I may look into it. My DIL is a very capable mum and person who has never been in trouble, so I wouldn't need to. As I said it would be interesting to hear what they say. We don't know what their daughter told them or what they know or have seen. People don't usually do things like this for no reason.
> 
> Are we getting the full story? We don't know. People will say what they want others to hear.


You are right, we do not know the entire story. We have not spoken to the grandparents, etc. But we have to go with what we are told since that is all that we know.

In the end, if the grandparents go the CPS/court route, then people who are there, with their 'boots' on the ground will assess the situation. They will interview everyone involved, maybe even do philological tests, etc. And then they will decide based on the facts.

Are some CPS people screw balls? yep. Are some custody evaluators screw balls? Yep. But a good percentage are not.

Just's past drug use means little to nothing if he has indeed been clean for years, has no criminal record (or at least none since his drug use days years ago), has completed a college degree and has a held a good job.

CPS usually works to keep child with their family. They usually prefer to get parents into counseling long before taking a child away.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Diana7 said:


> No they wont kidnap him, they have a home and presumably family and jobs.
> 
> If My son died I hope that my daughter in law would let us carry on regular contact with my grandchildren. I know she would because that's the sort of person she is.
> I can understand their fears and desperation.


So, what does "open door policy" mean to you? I'm serious because in my world it means they could come by, see him whenever they wanted and the OP never turned them away. Well, until they acted like complete IDIOTS. See, I understood the grief argument until they doubled down on the threats. The first time maybe he overreacted, but they acted foolish again. Sorry, I have to question their sanity when they follow up a threat of "we demand custody" with "we demand days alone with our grandson." No one knows if they would or wouldn't kidnap these kids. In his position, they've made demands twice, you aren't catching me off guard and everything you do is going through the lens of "worse case scenario."

They made it adversarial twice, there will not be a third time without lawyers and court involved. 


OP talk to your lawyer and set up a document which states, your parents get temporary custody/guardianship if anything happens to you. If CPS gets involved Heroin will scare them no matter how long you've been off. On this, I strongly disagree with Ele's assessment. If they are being this silly, you need to keep your son out of foster care or their hands IMO.


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## Satya

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> To add on and sorry for this but how they treated me even when their daughter was alive this just reinforces my feelings about them. All they have ever cared about is my past and have held that over my head as if it condemns me for the entirety of my life. While not caring about how long I have been clean or that I went to college and got my degree and then moved on and got an amazing job. Nope, none of that matters to these people and I won't be bullied when it comes to my son. I just refuse and have drawn that line like I said in the other post if they can not act like complete lunatics then perhaps we can work something out and get on some kind of better footing. But until they show me they can be trusted again they can go kick rocks for all I care.


Good for you. 
I seriously mean that.


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## phillybeffandswiss

wrong thread sorry.


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## sidney2718

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> How could I possibly be found criminally liable for a wreck I didn't cause? A drunk driver hit us and killed my fiancee, I and my fiancee were sober. No she didn't have a will as we were/are reltively young and wasn't expecting this at all. But I am on his BC as the father.


Then you are probably in good shape. The best thing is to talk to a lawyer who is knowledgeable about such cases.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Thinking of just getting a nanny for my son while I am at work and when I return. Hate to bother my own family and burden them with this. I also took everyone's advice and applied for the Social security for my son and if approved it will be going into a trust fund for him as suggested. Honestly pretty depressed, IF I could go back and change places with her I would she was so much more deserving of life than myself. Don't know why I wasn't taken instead and it's just really hard to wanna keep going but I have to for my son can't really think of myself anymore now that I got little man in my life. Physical therapy puts me in more pain then I have felt since the first few days in the hospital and the multiple surgeries. But some of my fiancees friends dropped by and first thing they said to me was that I should try and reconcile with her parents it honestly felt like her parents were talking and I asked if they had talked to her parents and how on earth they would know we were having issues and they wouldn't answer me.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Thinking of just getting a nanny for my son while I am at work and when I return. Hate to bother my own family and burden them with this. I also took everyone's advice and applied for the Social security for my son and if approved it will be going into a trust fund for him as suggested. Honestly pretty depressed, IF I could go back and change places with her I would she was so much more deserving of life than myself. Don't know why I wasn't taken instead and it's just really hard to wanna keep going but I have to for my son can't really think of myself anymore now that I got little man in my life. Physical therapy puts me in more pain then I have felt since the first few days in the hospital and the multiple surgeries. But some of my fiancees friends dropped by and first thing they said to me was that I should try and reconcile with her parents it honestly felt like her parents were talking and I asked if they had talked to her parents and how on earth they would know we were having issues and they wouldn't answer me.


Good job in applying for social security. I cannot imagine why you wouldn't be approved. That money will go a long way towards helping your son to have a strong financial start in life once he becomes an adult.

You don't know why this terrible thing happened. Perhaps she had fulfilled her purpose in life and you, on the other hand, have a lot left to do. The feelings and guilt you have is normal. I've heard this same thing before. But you had no choice in the matter and neither did she. We all have to live our lives to the best of our ability. You have a beautiful child to raise who needs you and that certainly gives purpose to your life as you have said. Be thankful that at least one of you is there to raise him up.

I'm so sorry you're having so much pain. I wish there was something that could be done to help you quicker. Keep pressing on. You are doing well.

That is too bad that the grandparents are rallying the troops when it is them who should be apologizing and asking for forgiveness and what they can do to earn your trust. Sending people to speak for them doesn't really help their case.

As far as hiring a nanny, ask your parents before doing that. They may want to care for him or for you to hire someone to help out at their home, so they can leave if necessary, like for grocery shopping or something. I watch my granddaughter twice a week. It would hurt my feelings if my daughter and sil decided to hire a nanny instead. A nanny isn't going to love her like I do. It is inconvenient to watch her, but on the other hand, I feel like they are dropping off a little dolly for me to play with. She is such a delight and a joy to my heart. We keep each other smiling. My mother helps me out, so if I need to go to the store or put in a load of laundry, she is there also. That makes it a lot easier for us to get things done around the house or run an errand. Anyway, I'm thankful that I am available to watch my granddaughter and do it gladly because I love her and my kids.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Just thought the nanny might be a better option but I will talk to my family tomorrow and see what they really want. Yeah I don't know why they enlisted mutual friends like that they just need to come to me and apologize and I do not owe them anything. Pain is bad and sometimes I wish I could take pain killers but my sobriety is much more important than the pain that I am feeling in the here and now although the pain does keep me awake lately but nothing I can't handle.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Just thought the nanny might be a better option but I will talk to my family tomorrow and see what they really want. Yeah I don't know why they enlisted mutual friends like that they just need to come to me and apologize and I do not owe them anything. Pain is bad and sometimes I wish I could take pain killers but my sobriety is much more important than the pain that I am feeling in the here and now although the pain does keep me awake lately but nothing I can't handle.


I think that making your parents, and maybe your sister, part of the decision for hiring a nanny is a good idea. That way if they want to do some of the child care, it gives them a chance to offer. You might find that a mix of your family and a nanny are the right answer.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Thinking of just getting a nanny for my son while I am at work and when I return. Hate to bother my own family and burden them with this. I also took everyone's advice and applied for the Social security for my son and if approved it will be going into a trust fund for him as suggested. Honestly pretty depressed, IF I could go back and change places with her I would she was so much more deserving of life than myself. Don't know why I wasn't taken instead and it's just really hard to wanna keep going but I have to for my son can't really think of myself anymore now that I got little man in my life. Physical therapy puts me in more pain then I have felt since the first few days in the hospital and the multiple surgeries. But some of my fiancees friends dropped by and first thing they said to me was that I should try and reconcile with her parents it honestly felt like her parents were talking and I asked if they had talked to her parents and how on earth they would know we were having issues and they wouldn't answer me.


Yea, sounds like your friends talked to your sort-of-in-laws. Too bad they were not more forth wright about that.

Being depressed at this point in time is expected. Are you in grief counseling? You might want to consider doing that.

Have you looked into any kind of homeopathic, or more natural, forms of pain control? You might find something that will take care of at least some of the pain. For example, often pain is caused by inflammation. Turmeric is considered a spice. It's also used to reduce inflammation. I use it as a tea (.5 to 1 tsp in 2 cups of hot water, sweeten to taste.) It really does make a difference. If you want to try it, buy the turmeric from a store like Sprouts or trader joe's. The quality is much better, at least that's my experience.

I've also heard of people using acupuncture for pain relief, yes even after surgery.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/581266

Acupuncture after Surgery | Santa Monica Acupuncture and Wellness


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## Cynthia

@EleGirl Great idea.

Here's an article that might be helpful: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/prevention-15/vitamins/chronic-pain-relief?page=1
Turmeric should always be combined with black pepper.


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## Maricha75

CynthiaDe said:


> @EleGirl Great idea.
> 
> Here's an article that might be helpful: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/prevention-15/vitamins/chronic-pain-relief?page=1
> Turmeric should always be combined with black pepper.


I take the capsules, and never use it with black pepper. It still works great for me, even without pepper. 

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## Cynthia

@Justtryingtosurvive, have you tried any of these anti-inflammatory herbs or spices to help you with the pain and healing? If not, I would highly recommend you give it a try. They don't have negative side effects, but are food based remedies that have other benefits for your body as well as pain relief.



Maricha75 said:


> I take the capsules, and never use it with black pepper. It still works great for me, even without pepper.


Many turmeric or curcumin (the active ingredient in turmeric) include black pepper or bioperine (the active ingredient in black pepper). Your turmeric supplement may have black pepper in it. Turmeric will still work without black pepper, but the black pepper activates the curcuminin in the turmeric making it more effective.


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## Maricha75

CynthiaDe said:


> Many turmeric or curcumin (the active ingredient in turmeric) include black pepper or bioperine (the active ingredient in black pepper). Your turmeric supplement may have black pepper in it. Turmeric will still work without black pepper, but the black pepper activates the curcuminin in the turmeric making it more effective.


Possibly. But it isn't listed as an ingredient on the bottle. I do know other people who use turmeric/curcumin and do not use black pepper because it is an irritant, and have had good results with it on its own. 



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## Justtryingtosurvive

They have me on muscle relaxers but it isn't quite the same and I can take Advil ext but again not quite the same or enough but alas those are the rules I gotta live by and I made that choice long ago. Her parents called today and asked rather calmly if I would be ok with meeting them for lunch on Saturday to talk and I told them I would get back to them and let them know by tomorrow night. Not sure what good it will do to meet up with them right now and while meeting in public would probably keep them on their best behavior not sure what good it would do like I said. Also talked with my family about the nanny issue and they told me not to look into one that they wanted to watch him which is what I figured but I told them if it becomes too much that I wanted them to tell me right away and I would get a nanny.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> They have me on muscle relaxers but it isn't quite the same and I can take Advil ext but again not quite the same or enough but alas those are the rules I gotta live by and I made that choice long ago. Her parents called today and asked rather calmly if I would be ok with meeting them for lunch on Saturday to talk and I told them I would get back to them and let them know by tomorrow night. Not sure what good it will do to meet up with them right now and while meeting in public would probably keep them on their best behavior not sure what good it would do like I said. Also talked with my family about the nanny issue and they told me not to look into one that they wanted to watch him which is what I figured but I told them if it becomes too much that I wanted them to tell me right away and I would get a nanny.


You are doing well to stay clear of certain drugs. I hope you are able to find something that will give you some relief without danger or side effects. Turmeric is really good for your body overall. I take it almost daily in my green smoothies along with a couple other things I mix together. 

You might want to give the grandparents a chance to apologize, but if they start going down an offensive road you could just get up and leave. It's okay to let them know that their comments are not acceptable and that you no longer trust them. I'm sorry they have literally added insult to injury. I hope they get their heads straightened out and can be a support to you and good grandparents, but at the moment I wouldn't trust them either.

It's good that you have a loving and supportive family. Your son will be well loved and cared for while you are working. I'm personally looking forward to playing with my granddaughter in the morning. She's a little piece of sunshine. It sounds like your parents feel exactly the same way about your son.


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## Thor

My first reaction is to not meet with them. They are not on your side right now, which makes any meeting dangerous. Who knows if they are trying to entrap you somehow? Maybe get you to talk about your drug history while secretly recording you, which they might think they could use against you to get custody. Maybe they just want to plead with you to let them have the kids. Perhaps they want to apologize, but they can do that on the phone. Maybe they plan to schmooze you as part of a longer term strategy to get you to agree to them having custody. I would be very suspicious of their motives right now, and proceed under the assumption that no matter what they say or how they act, it is part of a strategy to get custody.


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## Cynthia

If you decide not to meet with them, you could tell them to put whatever they have to say in writing and you will decide if there is a need for further discussion or not. I'd also throw in there that their threats have caused you to severely distrust them, their judgment, and whether they really have your son's best interests at heart.


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## zookeeper

I wouldn't let these people within a country mile of me or my child. The stakes are simply too high.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Bring a witness if you do meet. I am with Thor as I've seen these things go sideways. Do not respond to ANY questions about your past drug use, fights or anything which may make you appear to be an unstable parent. If it heads in this direction immediately leave, in a calm manner, with zero answers.


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## Evinrude58

Kept up with your thread a little.
I worry about your past addiction.

You getting clean, getting a degree, getting a job, and not taking pain medicine in order to ensure you stay sober---// that's impressive to me. 

I do hate that the grandparents can't tell their side. But I do know that some people are just *******s.

One doesn't just swoop in and demand a man's son. They should have better sense than that.

You seem to be reasonable. I've read your posts carefully and your logic is sound.

I just want to tell you I hope everything turns out ok. If you eventually can allow the kids grandparents back in his life, that's great. If they're a couple of looneybirds--- don't feel guilty about excluding them.
I would not even consider talking to them or letting them see your son for a while. They've proven that they are strictly interested in taking your son. You don't need that worry now. 

I advise you don't meet them. Show them they are not the center of your universe.

They need to think about the things they've said to you for a while.

Good luck.


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## Kivlor

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> They have me on muscle relaxers but it isn't quite the same and I can take Advil ext but again not quite the same or enough but alas those are the rules I gotta live by and I made that choice long ago. Her parents called today and asked rather calmly if I would be ok with meeting them for lunch on Saturday to talk and I told them I would get back to them and let them know by tomorrow night. Not sure what good it will do to meet up with them right now and while meeting in public would probably keep them on their best behavior not sure what good it would do like I said. Also talked with my family about the nanny issue and they told me not to look into one that they wanted to watch him which is what I figured but I told them if it becomes too much that I wanted them to tell me right away and I would get a nanny.


I think it's a good idea to meet with them. In public. But make sure you avoid topics like being on muscle relaxers, your previous addiction, etc.

I completely understand you losing your cool with your son's grandparents. They were out of line. That said, in the long run, I think it would be best to try to work something out with them. Obviously don't let them have overnights with the kid, only supervised visits until you're comfortable. Consider that they are probably just as emotionally hurt as you are, maybe worse, because they just lost a daughter. And I'm sure they're terrified of losing the opportunity to see her only son. That fear likely caused them to act rashly, and then you--through no fault but theirs--confirmed their fears by taking the kid out of their lives. (Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies) 

You might try sitting down with them tomorrow, and saying something "Hey, look, I'm sorry if I flipped out on you, but when you came to me and demanded custody of my son, it caused me to panic. I'm not giving him up. But I also want him to have his grandparents in his life. What you did really damaged my trust for you and it's going to take a lot for us to rebuild that, but I know you've got to be hurting, just like me, because while I just lost the mother of my son, you lost your daughter. And I know our son is your only connection to her. Why don't you guys meet us at [public place] on [pick a date] so he can spend some time with his grandparents."

ETA: Obviously if they won't see reason, or keep acting crazy, they'll have to go.


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## phillybeffandswiss

See. I disagree with any admission of wrong doing in this case. They threatened you with custody and you said they never liked you before she died. So, while I understand the above sentiment, do not imply, state or give the impression you did anything wrong by flipping out. Minor admissions get you tied up in court and there are way too many cases out there to prove my assertion.

If you are going to apologize make no reference to what you may or may not have done. "I am sorry things have become tense, what would you like to discuss?" Their actions, to me, currently carry a level of distrust. They've brought up custody and visitation twice. Then they inserted her friends, as intermediaries, on their behalf. Trust nothing and admit nothing right now. Later you may be able to mend the relationship, but it is too fresh right now.


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## Kivlor

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See. I disagree with any admission of wrong doing in this case. They threatened you with custody and you said they never liked you before she died. So, while I understand the above sentiment, do not imply, state or give the impression you did anything wrong by flipping out. Minor admissions get you tied up in court and there are way too many cases out there to prove my assertion.
> 
> If you are going to apologize make no reference to what you may or may not have done. "I am sorry things have become tense, what would you like to discuss?" Their actions, to me, currently carry a level of distrust. They've brought up custody and visitation twice. Then they inserted her friends, as intermediaries, on their behalf. Trust nothing and admit nothing right now. Later you may be able to mend the relationship, but it is too fresh right now.


I recommended it as a peace offering. Do it to get the dialogue going. But I understand not doing it. The OP hasn't really done anything unjust. 

The apology can be useful to build up the common ground between both parties. OP and the grandparents just lost someone profoundly important in their lives. They are all likely to be on edge, just due to the stress, and this causes overreactions and rash decisions. Acknowledging that gives them an opening to apologize without having their pride hurt too much, or causing them to feel like OP is using his son (their grandson) like a cudgel to beat them into submission. Of course any apology should be worded so that it wouldn't be admissible against OP. Instead of "flipped out" maybe "have been grumpy (or cranky) with you" or something similar.

The longer this drags out, the more likely people will become entrenched. OP will resent them more for what they've done, and of course try to protect his son. And they'll feel justified in doing it, because he's now living up to their fear of keeping their daughter's only son away from them, and that is likely to lead to more confrontations, as they try to find a way to get access to their grandkid.

I completely understand why he's done what he did so far. I'm saying I probably would have reacted similarly. I'd probably be saying "See if you ever get to visit your grand-kid again" but from the outside looking in, I think it would be wise to offer an olive branch and try to unify a broken family, and I hope someone would advise me to cool the fires of my rage, and try to do that.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Kivlor said:


> I recommended it as a peace offering. Do it to get the dialogue going. But I understand not doing it. The OP hasn't really done anything unjust.
> 
> The apology can be useful to build up the common ground between both parties. OP and the grandparents just lost someone profoundly important in their lives. They are all likely to be on edge, just due to the stress, and this causes overreactions and rash decisions. Acknowledging that gives them an opening to apologize without having their pride hurt too much, or causing them to feel like OP is using his son (their grandson) like a cudgel to beat them into submission. Of course any apology should be worded so that it wouldn't be admissible against OP. Instead of "flipped out" maybe "have been grumpy (or cranky) with you" or something similar.
> 
> The longer this drags out, the more likely people will become entrenched. OP will resent them more for what they've done, and of course try to protect his son. And they'll feel justified in doing it, because he's now living up to their fear of keeping their daughter's only son away from them, and that is likely to lead to more confrontations, as they try to find a way to get access to their grandkid.
> 
> I completely understand why he's done what he did so far. I'm saying I probably would have reacted similarly. I'd probably be saying "See if you ever get to visit your grand-kid again" but from the outside looking in, I think it would be wise to offer an olive branch and try to unify a broken family, and I hope someone would advise me to cool the fires of my rage, and try to do that.


You are completely misunderstanding my post. Nowhere in my post do I say he shouldn't apologize, I basically said not to apologize with any type of admission of wrong doing. He can do exactly what you are saying without uttering the words "panicked", "flipped out" "have been grumpy (or cranky) with you" or "I was wrong."


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## frusdil

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See. I disagree with any admission of wrong doing in this case. They threatened you with custody and you said they never liked you before she died. So, while I understand the above sentiment, do not imply, state or give the impression you did anything wrong by flipping out. Minor admissions get you tied up in court and there are way too many cases out there to prove my assertion.
> 
> If you are going to apologize make no reference to what you may or may not have done. "I am sorry things have become tense, what would you like to discuss?" Their actions, to me, currently carry a level of distrust. They've brought up custody and visitation twice. Then they inserted her friends, as intermediaries, on their behalf. Trust nothing and admit nothing right now. Later you may be able to mend the relationship, but it is too fresh right now.



^^This.

In your shoes OP, I would take a witness with me, one of your parents most likely - whoever is the calmer one, who won't say much but quickly pull you back on track if things take a tense turn. Do not take your son.

In the meeting, I would refuse to discuss ANY past issues. They are resolved and rehashing won't help things going forward. Only discuss THE POSSIBILITY of them seeing/having the grandson in the FUTURE. Tell them that the way they have behaved has caused you to no longer trust them and that you need time for the trust to start to rebuild. Tell them that you will happily send them photos/videos of your son, if you're comfortable perhaps they can Skype with him. But for now, that's all that will be happening.

They need to realise that they are not his parents, you are his parent, his father and YOU will raise him the way you and his mother would have, had she lived.

I also encourage you to get your will updated asap - like this week - to say that in the event of your death, your parents are to get custody of your son.


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## Thomas Quinn

frusdil said:


> ^^This.
> 
> In your shoes OP, I would take a witness with me, one of your parents most likely - whoever is the calmer one, who won't say much but quickly pull you back on track if things take a tense turn. Do not take your son.
> 
> In the meeting, I would refuse to discuss ANY past issues. They are resolved and rehashing won't help things going forward. Only discuss THE POSSIBILITY of them seeing/having the grandson in the FUTURE. Tell them that the way they have behaved has caused you to no longer trust them and that you need time for the trust to start to rebuild. Tell them that you will happily send them photos/videos of your son, if you're comfortable perhaps they can Skype with him. But for now, that's all that will be happening.
> 
> They need to realise that they are not his parents, you are his parent, his father and YOU will raise him the way you and his mother would have, had she lived.
> 
> I also encourage you to get your will updated asap - like this week - to say that in the event of your death, your parents are to get custody of your son.


THIS^^^ and let them know you are recording this see if they stay.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I will be taking my two best friends who have been friends since we were 13 years old as back up, They asked today if I would bring my son so they could at least see him and that honestly set off a couple of red flags for me just worried me a bit. I don't think I will take him because I don't want things to go sideways or be any more emotional then they already are in all honesty and I feel like adding him to the mix would do just that in all honesty.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Evinrude58 said:


> Kept up with your thread a little.
> *I worry about your past addiction.*
> 
> You getting clean, getting a degree, getting a job, and not taking pain medicine in order to ensure you stay sober---// that's impressive to me.
> 
> I do hate that the grandparents can't tell their side. But I do know that some people are just *******s.
> 
> One doesn't just swoop in and demand a man's son. They should have better sense than that.
> 
> You seem to be reasonable. I've read your posts carefully and your logic is sound.
> 
> I just want to tell you I hope everything turns out ok. If you eventually can allow the kids grandparents back in his life, that's great. If they're a couple of looneybirds--- don't feel guilty about excluding them.
> I would not even consider talking to them or letting them see your son for a while. They've proven that they are strictly interested in taking your son. You don't need that worry now.
> 
> I advise you don't meet them. Show them they are not the center of your universe.
> 
> They need to think about the things they've said to you for a while.
> 
> Good luck.


Why? Not that I am surpised anyone that I tell that doesn't know me very well gives me that type of answer honestly. But there is no reason to be worried I am not going back down that road. Going through detox is hell on earth but staying clean is harder and I am not going to throw away years of sobriety away.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You are badly injured, you are in physical therapy, your fiancee died, your inlaws are being foolish, you feel depressed, you feel overwhelmed and you admit the over the counter medicine is just enough, but not always. ER didn't say anything negative about you, gave you good advice and just added "I worry about your past addiction." 
You have demonstrated your line in the sand is, any inference about your past drug addiction. I've seen what crack and heroin has done to people. I've seen some get off, some who do not and others who relapse. If I knew you, I'd still worry in the current situation. It is part of the stigma you will carry for the rest of your life. It shouldn't bother you unless, like the grandparents did, it is used to judge you.


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## Taxman

Justtryingtosurvive
I believe that they are going to meet with you and at that meeting they will attempt to kidnap your son.

I agree with your take on things, and you are well advised to NOT bring your son with you. I believe that these two would stoop to kidnapping in broad daylight, and are not too intelligent. Explain to them at this meeting that in no uncertain terms they will NEVER have custody of your son, and given their current behavior, they must be told that you are not inclined to ever allow them to have him, even for a visit. 

They expect you to come with your son, they will be bringing others with them to take the child and leave you in the dust. 

If they attempt to strong-arm, or demand that you turn the child over to them, be prepared with a restraining order and police if necessary. Unfortunately, I have been around grandparents of this nature who are more than willing to take what they believe is their possession from you. Do not be surprised if suddenly there are 10 relatives with them. Leave your son with someone that they do not know. Ensure that you were not followed. Keep his whereabouts secret when you meet with them.


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## Mizzbak

Taxman, whilst I agree that yours is sadly a very real possibility, I also think that they might have asked for the meeting because they want to try and re-establish a relationship with Just and his son. (Even if this is the case, Just should still meet them with witnesses and without his son, making sure that they would have no access to him in Just's absence.) 

Just should not go expecting the worst, but rather being prepared for it. I hope very much that they have seen the error of their ways and that are they hoping to try to reach out and rebuild a relationship with Just, asking him for his forgiveness and saying that they are willing to do whatever they can (and he is willing to allow) to support him as their grandchild's father and sole legal guardian. I really hope that. 

Thinking of you and your son, Just.


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## Thor

Taxman said:


> Justtryingtosurvive
> I believe that they are going to meet with you and at that meeting they will attempt to kidnap your son.
> .
> .
> .


I agree 100%. This is why I recommend not even meeting them in the first place.

If they wish to apologize to you, they can do it over the phone. If they wish to plead their case to you, they can send an email. There is nothing, not one single thing, which is to your benefit by meeting them.

If you insist on meeting them in person, take Taxman's words seriously. I would go so far as to instruct whoever watches your son during the meeting to expect some form of attempt at kidnapping. I would instruct your relatives to not believe anyone who says anything. Be alert for distractions like one person ringing the front doorbell while another goes into the back yard to snatch the child. It sounds dramatic, but it happens.


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## EleGirl

I agree with the above posts. Both are possible.

The idea of having your son stay somewhere that they do not know about during the meeting is a very good idea. It might be a bit of an over precaution, but who knows what people will do when they are desperate?


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## Greygeese

I think you guys are being a little extreme even thinking that the grandparents could "kidnap" the baby. They would be in jail shortly afterward.

Have your mom and sister take him for a drive during your meeting.


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## Maricha75

Greygeese said:


> I think you guys are being a little extreme even thinking that the grandparents could "kidnap" the baby. They would be in jail shortly afterward.
> 
> Have your mom and sister take him for a drive during your meeting.


And putting the word kidnap in quotes shows that you don't see a grandparent taking off with the child without permission as kidnapping... which it absolutely would be. Sure, IF they take him, and IF they are caught, they would be jailed. But, to comment on the possibility as if it's nothing is deplorable. Given the way they acted, it is a very real possibility. Is it definite? No. But I definitely would not downplay the risk because some guy on the internet thinks it is "kidnapping" rather than *kidnapping*.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Greygeese

Maricha75 said:


> And putting the word kidnap in quotes shows that you don't see a grandparent taking off with the child without permission as kidnapping... which it absolutely would be. Sure, IF they take him, and IF they are caught, they would be jailed. But, to comment on the possibility as if it's nothing is deplorable. Given the way they acted, it is a very real possibility. Is it definite? No. But I definitely would not downplay the risk because some guy on the internet thinks it is "kidnapping" rather than *kidnapping*.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Actually I was not implying that at all. I put it in quotes for emphasis. I do not think they could get away with it without getting in big trouble. While I would take a precaution of making sure the baby is not near the meeting, I do not think their intent is to kldnap.


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## MattMatt

Because no grandparents would ever dream about kidnapping their grandchildren or lying to the authorities, right?

Wolverhampton grandparents jailed for role in abduction after youngsters flown to Costa Rica « Express & Star

Grandma arrested after kidnapping 7-year-old granddaughter in Highland, deputies say | abc7.com


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## Greygeese

So you can post two news stories that means that's what there going to do? And in your second one the grandma got arrested. And based on the young mans description of how poor they are they are probably not taking them to Costa Rica, and in the US dont they have to have a passport to get him out of the country?


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## Greygeese

Justtryingtosurvive your best course of action is have them them go through your family attorney and if they insist on meeting have the attorney set it up. Then you will have legal representation should this get worse and diffuse it up front. 


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## Thor

There are all kinds of scenarios, none of which are of any potential benefit to JTtS, if he meets them in person. They don't have to be outright kidnapping scenarios, just some kind of setup or laying the groundwork for future mischief.

The very best case is they genuinely want to apologize. They can do this on the phone, skype, or email. Every other motivation for the get together is calculated by them to get the child away from him. And the apology could be part of such a strategy.


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## MattMatt

Greygeese said:


> So you can post two news stories that means that's what there going to do? And in your second one the grandma got arrested. And based on the young mans description of how poor they are they are probably not taking them to Costa Rica, and in the US dont they have to have a passport to get him out of the country?


I was merely pointing out that some grandparents have decided to kidnap their grandchildren.

I merely used two stories because I thought that would be enough to make the point I was intending to make.


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## Greygeese

MattMatt said:


> I was merely pointing out that some grandparents have decided to kidnap their grandchildren.
> 
> 
> 
> I merely used two stories because I thought that would be enough to make the point I was intending to make.




I know it's possible, but if I were him I would tell them to talk to his lawyer. They have proven there up to no good.


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## Taxman

People pay me to guard against the worst scenario. It is in my nature to go there. In this case, I do not feel that I am overreacting. I do not see any possible request as being on the level. They are both ignorant and entitled, which is a dangerous combination. OP is well advised to guard his son from these people. Hide the boy until these people can be eliminated from this picture.


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## EleGirl

As far as the meeting-up that the sort-of-in-laws want, all Just need say to them is that he did not bring his son because he felt that some things needed to be talked out between the adults. And have a small child in the middle of that is not good for the child.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

We meet up today I left my son with my parents and took two friends along with me for back up, They were surprisingly well behaved. They started off with apologizing a lot and I made it abundantly clear that they will never get custody and they accepted that or at least I think they have. I don't know if they were sincere or not it didn't feel like it but then again I am not very trusting of them right now anyways. And I explained how things are going to be and that they won't be in my son's life again until I can trust them again. They got kind of upset when I said that but I reminded them that they caused this when they spat in my face when I had an open door policy with them and they tried ****ting on that and demanding custody of my son. I suppose we will see how things go from here and rather or not they abide by my terms and work with me.


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## EleGirl

If they are not going to be in your son's life until you can trust them, doesn't that mean that you will not be seeing them? So how will you know if and when you can trust them again?

My concern is that if do not allow them to see your son at all, they very well might go to court. Is there any way to set up supervised visits?


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## Justtryingtosurvive

IF they need to see me it will be like today again but no until I can trust them I don't want them around my son. I suppose I could look into supervised visits. But I would want to be there in all honesty for those.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> IF they need to see me it will be like today again but no until I can trust them I don't want them around my son. I suppose I could look into supervised visits. But I would want to be there in all honesty for those.


ETA: They don't really want to see you. They want to see their grandchild. My bet is that at this point they would be happy to never see you again. So meetings with just with you will not prove much of anything. Why would they want a meeting with you if you are not going to let them see their grandson?


In order to trust them again, you have to have some kind of relationship with them... more than a few terse meetings. I don't have the answer, just wanted to bring up the point that there was to me more than that for them to show that they can be trusted.


There are organizations that can be hired to do supervised visitations. The person/people who need supervision go there. The parent drops the child off. and then they can have a visit. Think of it like a daycare center where his grandparents can visit with him. And they area strict about keeping an eye on the child and not allowing anyone but the parent take the child.

They, of course, could pay for that if that is what you end up doing.

I'll bet I can guess what they are going to do now. They will see a lawyer to get some kind of visitation if at all possible. From what I read they might not be able to in your state. But who knows. It's up to the judge. And if the judge gives visitation, it's not likely to be supervised.


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## Mizzbak

Just - I agree with Elegirl on this. Make no mistake, I think you are completely in the right ... but if you allow them controlled access under your terms (supervision, secure etc.) then they have a great deal to lose by trying to rock the boat. If you don't allow them any access at all, then they have nothing to lose by trying what they can legally - even if they have a very low probability of winning. And it will be very difficult for them to rebuild any trust with you at all, if you hold them at arm's length away from both you and your son. Remember that they do love your son. They have just chosen a very unhealthy, irrational way to show it at the moment. I know that you don't need this right now with what you are going through, anyway. I'm sorry.


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## MattMatt

I think they require counselling.

It is possible that they are trying to use their daughter's baby to replace their daughter. If so, this is unhealthy.


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## Greygeese

You really need to quit trying to resolve this by yourself. I agree with EleGirl, you may have just pushed this to another level. You need an attorney to protect you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thor

Greygeese said:


> You really need to quit trying to resolve this by yourself. I agree with EleGirl, you may have just pushed this to another level. You need an attorney to protect you.


Agreed. There is a legal system, not a justice system. What is right, logical, or moral may have nothing to do with how the law works. You need a lawyer to advise you on how to protect your son and your interests.


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## phillybeffandswiss

I had something to say, but I really don't feel like bickering.


Just go see a good lawyer.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Feels like my hand is being forced either way in all honesty and being forced before I am ready is not the best feeling. I really hate that they took it to this extreme. Honestly have just thought about moving very far away so they can't reach us. But then I would just be leaving my own family behind and a lot of my good friends so that idea is just a double edged sword. Guess I will try and reach out to them and give them a good day they can come over and visit him. Although I am really uncomfortable and not ready for this, but it is better then dragging this through the court systems even if I believe I can easily win this in all honesty. But this would be for the best for my son and whom am I to deny him a relationship with his grandparents. Just hoping this is not a mistake and I do not later regreat this decision.


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## IamSomebody

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Feels like my hand is being forced either way in all honesty and being forced before I am ready is not the best feeling. I really hate that they took it to this extreme. Honestly have just thought about moving very far away so they can't reach us. But then I would just be leaving my own family behind and a lot of my good friends so that idea is just a double edged sword. Guess I will try and reach out to them and give them a good day they can come over and visit him. Although I am really uncomfortable and not ready for this, but it is better then dragging this through the court systems even if I believe I can easily win this in all honesty. But this would be for the best for my son and whom am I to deny him a relationship with his grandparents. Just hoping this is not a mistake and I do not later regreat this decision.


Don't agree to another visitation date and make no promises. They will push for this. Tell them you will see but if they push it shows they do *NOT* have your son's bests interests at heart. If you tell them another date they will want to make it a regular thing.

IamSomebody


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## Greygeese

Don't do anything please until you talk to this family law attorney you said earlier you retained. I can't believe your lawyer has let this get this far.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Feels like my hand is being forced either way in all honesty and being forced before I am ready is not the best feeling. I really hate that they took it to this extreme. Honestly have just thought about moving very far away so they can't reach us. But then I would just be leaving my own family behind and a lot of my good friends so that idea is just a double edged sword. Guess I will try and reach out to them and give them a good day they can come over and visit him. Although I am really uncomfortable and not ready for this, but it is better then dragging this through the court systems even if I believe I can easily win this in all honesty. But this would be for the best for my son and whom am I to deny him a relationship with his grandparents. Just hoping this is not a mistake and I do not later regreat this decision.


You talked about your good job, go talk to a lawyer. I was worried you'd freak out at the advice. Your hand hasn't been forced, they took it here not you. If you capitulate and enact no consequences, open door gave them the courage for this crap IMO, you will have regrets. Sorry, it is crappy parenting to allow something YOU are uncomfortable with because "they are his grandparents." 

Nope, I do not know how these grandparents are, but talk to a lawyer before you do anything one way or another, blood or not.


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## MattMatt

If they do get to see the baby it must be in an official contact centre staffed by experts trained to stop kidnaps etc.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Feels like my hand is being forced either way in all honesty and being forced before I am ready is not the best feeling. I really hate that they took it to this extreme. Honestly have just thought about moving very far away so they can't reach us. But then I would just be leaving my own family behind and a lot of my good friends so that idea is just a double edged sword. Guess I will try and reach out to them and give them a good day they can come over and visit him. Although I am really uncomfortable and not ready for this, but it is better then dragging this through the court systems even if I believe I can easily win this in all honesty. But this would be for the best for my son and whom am I to deny him a relationship with his grandparents. Just hoping this is not a mistake and I do not later regreat this decision.


I at your hand is being forced one way or the other. What might help is if you talk to your lawyer about this so that you know what you can do to protect yourself and your child. There might be some things that would make sense.

Shoot you might want to have a nanny type cam running while they are there so you have a record of the visit. Washington is a two party consent state for recording people. Meaning that for most things all parties must agree to a recording. But you could ask your attorney what circumstances would be ok to record. For example can you use a nanny cam if you had a baby sitter in the house with your child. And then what if the cam is still running when the grandparents come over, etc. Surely parents can use a nanny can in their own home.

Washington Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project


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## Cynthia

EleGirl said:


> I at your hand is being forced one way or the other. What might help is if you talk to your lawyer about this so that you know what you can do to protect yourself and your child. There might be some things that would make sense.
> 
> Shoot you might want to have a nanny type cam running while they are there so you have a record of the visit. Washington is a two party consent state for recording people. Meaning that for most things all parties must agree to a recording. But you could ask your attorney what circumstances would be ok to record. For example can you use a nanny cam if you had a baby sitter in the house with your child. And then what if the cam is still running when the grandparents come over, etc. Surely parents can use a nanny can in their own home.
> 
> Washington Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project


There is a simple way to resolve this. Simply tell them you are recording everything and if they don't agree to be recorded, visit is over before it starts.

I would not agree to a visit at this point. It sets a precedent. If you don't set firm boundaries after their threats, you will find that you are in a more difficult situation. 

Did you visit with them this weekend?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Took my good friend two years to get custody of his grandsons. His daughter was an addict, the father was as well, they were neglecting the kids, they both had warrants and one was going to do hard time for 5 years. Yet, it took TWO YEARS for them to get custody because they fought him every step of the way. No joke, they were told since CPS didn't catch them in the ACT of taking drugs, the needles they found couldn't be used as proof they were addicts. BTW, they were also destitute and had a legal aide lawyer. They still had visitation and the system KNEW they were addicts. The burden of proof is RIDICULOUS for grandparents.

This is why you talk to a lawyer. You have parental rights which are EXTREMELY hard to take away.

Go find out what you need to do LEGALLY and then decide what you want to do.


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## Cynthia

The answer to this question may be seem obvious, but can you please explain why you would give the grandparents visitation after this? Is it for your son, for them, for your fiancee? I'd like to understand where you are coming from.

Also, how do you believe they are forcing your hand? I don't understand that at all. Can you please explain what you mean by that.


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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> We meet up today I left my son with my parents and took two friends along with me for back up, They were surprisingly well behaved. They started off with apologizing a lot and I made it abundantly clear that they will never get custody and they accepted that or at least I think they have. I don't know if they were sincere or not it didn't feel like it but then again I am not very trusting of them right now anyways. And I explained how things are going to be and that they won't be in my son's life again until I can trust them again. They got kind of upset when I said that but I reminded them that they caused this when they spat in my face when I had an open door policy with them and they tried ****ting on that and demanding custody of my son. I suppose we will see how things go from here and rather or not they abide by my terms and work with me.


They must be heartbroken. They have lost their child and now they may have lost their grandchild. Its so sad. :crying:


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## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> They must be heartbroken. They have lost their child and now they may have lost their grandchild. Its so sad. :crying:


They only have themselves and their foolishness to blame for losing their grandchild. I don't think it's really sad for them. I think it's their just desserts. Fools make their own misery and they often end up in ruin. That's the way it's supposed to be.

I don't feel sorry for fools. They have what's coming to them. If they repent, perhaps they can be saved, but that seldom happens. Fools rarely repent. They are mostly doomed.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Diana7 said:


> They must be heartbroken. They have lost their child and now they may have lost their grandchild. Its so sad. :crying:


And that is on them, They haven't lost their grandchild if they do what I laid out to them and change their ways. Ball is in their court and I also consulted with my attorney today as well and he said the easiest way for me to get through this is just to offer them some kind of support but do it through the courts so if they do break it in some fashion or run away with my kid I have some kind of legal recourse. Sorry it makes you sad but I am doing what I have to do to protect my son as I am his only parent now.


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## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> They must be heartbroken. They have lost their child and now they may have lost their grandchild. Its so sad. :crying:


They threw their grandchild away, rather than losing him.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I don't know why her parents keep getting to have passes on their behavior and aren't held to a higher standard as it was. I don't know what makes their loss or pain worse than mine, It could have been so easy for me to turn back to drugs and that past of mine with the physical and mental pain I am in currently but I haven't. Why do they get to act like jerks and still retain everything and still get to see their grandchild even when they tried to take him from me. I understand some are seeing this through the grandparents POV but I don't see how you can't see it through my POV either. I don't know just something that has kind of bothered me.


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## Tatsuhiko

I think their only crime was foolishness. They were aware that after their daughters death, they stood to lose contact with their grandchild, and they got scared. The situation was out of their control. One of them came up with the idiotic idea of threats and intimidation as a way of ensuring they'd always have access. It was the result of panic. They didn't check with an attorney, and they didn't realize the effect it might have on you. Now they're really regretting the decision and looking for a way to backpedal out of it. I feel bad for them because their foolishness will probably now result in much less access to their grandchild than they ever envisioned. 

I don't think they're a threat. I think they're just stupid. What would your fiancee have wanted? She'd want them to have a relationship with them. If possible, have their lawyer draft up documents saying that they will never attempt to gain custody except in the event of your death. Then let them have some visits where you're present. If they can finally regain your trust, years down the line, then maybe they can have unsupervised visits. 

My mother did this a few years ago. She was going through a rough time and we got in a fight. I stopped talking to her for a few weeks--not completely, but I just stopped being friendly and didn't want visits, etc. She panicked and thought she was never going to see her grandchildren again. She sent a threatening email saying that she had rights and was going to get a lawyer. At that point I should have been angry. But something clicked in my head. I actually felt bad for her at that point because she had no idea how STUPID she was. I knew she had almost no rights in the situation. I realized I was dealing with someone who wasn't actually a threat, but instead had a limited understanding of reality and consequences. Like I said, I felt bad for her instead and made sure she was able to see her grandchildren regularly. I was the bigger person. I'll never be thanked for it, but I know it was the right thing to do. She loves the kids and they love her.


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## Evinrude58

Do not show people weakness. Does your attorney say hello have ANY rights to see your child legally? If not, it would be a while until they saw him.

YOU are right. They tried to TAKE your son from you while you're in the hospital hurt.

Don't feel guilty for protecting yourself.


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## arbitrator

*These grandparents have a lot more money than they do "common sense!"

And their bloodsucking attorneys know that sad fact all too well, smiling all the way to the bank all while representing their jaded interests; and knowing full well that in the end, they are destined to lose!*


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I don't know why her parents keep getting to have passes on their behavior and aren't held to a higher standard as it was. I don't know what makes their loss or pain worse than mine, It could have been so easy for me to turn back to drugs and that past of mine with the physical and mental pain I am in currently but I haven't. Why do they get to act like jerks and still retain everything and still get to see their grandchild even when they tried to take him from me. I understand some are seeing this through the grandparents POV but I don't see how you can't see it through my POV either. I don't know just something that has kind of bothered me.


I think that almost everyone on this thread sees things from your point of view.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Sorry just being overly sensitive plus I can't sleep because Pain, So just being far too sensitive I suppose. Being forced to stay awake because of pain is sucky forces my mind to think about things I rather not like the loss of my soulmate. Just keep replaying that entire night over and over again in my head and wishing I had done a lot of different things that probably would have avoided a wreck if we hadn't rushed out of the airport if I would have taken her advice and just got a hotel room at the airport for the night so on and so forth. Honestly just wish she was here instead of me, Then her parents wouldn't be going through this pain and they and I wouldn't have to be having this fight.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry just being overly sensitive plus I can't sleep because Pain, So just being far too sensitive I suppose. Being forced to stay awake because of pain is sucky forces my mind to think about things I rather not like the loss of my soulmate. Just keep replaying that entire night over and over again in my head and wishing I had done a lot of different things that probably would have avoided a wreck if we hadn't rushed out of the airport if I would have taken her advice and just got a hotel room at the airport for the night so on and so forth. Honestly just wish she was here instead of me, Then her parents wouldn't be going through this pain and they and I wouldn't have to be having this fight.


I can only imagine the pain you are going through both emotionally and physically. Bot take time to heal from.

Your physical pain is most likely making your emotional pain even worse. Like you said, not sleeping gives you way too many night time hours to replay that night and feel your loss. Sometimes one feeds the other. The physical pain keeps you up and increases the emotional pain. And when the emotional pain increases, it leads to more physical pain.

One thing that I know works for sleep is melatonin. It’s the hormone that your body makes to tell itse’f to go to sleep. It’s available just about everywhere that sells vitamins. It works. Not sure is it will override serious pain, but I know it works. I’ve used it a lot in the past when I went through periods of time when I could not sleep without it (I will not take prescription sleep meds and void the over the counter sleep meds.)

If you could control more of the physical pain and get sleep, you would also do better emotionally. Is there any way that you can get into a pain clinic? I was listing to a talk radio show this last weekend. The guest was a doctor and the topic of pain management came up. They talked about ways to reduce pain that did not involve narcotics. There were some interesting things that people learned in pain clinics that they said really worked.


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## Mizzbak

Just,

I wanted to let you know that there are people thinking about you a lot, even though we can't physically be with you. But we can tell you that by putting your son's long term family needs above your righteous desire to punish his grandparent's behaviour, you are doing a very good thing for him. 

When I lost someone close to me, I used to write them letters. Some of them were about how I felt about them dying, and some were just as though they were away for a while and I was keeping in touch. There were so many things that I'd never got around to telling them, and so many new things that I wanted to share. (I still have those letters.) It helped me. 

(If I missed it, I apologise) but, have you considered going to counselling? You have so much to process right now. I also agree with Elegirl that physical and emotional pain magnify each other horribly. You are constrained in how you can deal with physical pain, but you could also start trying to actively deal with your emotional pain. 

As always, my thoughts are with you.


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## MattMatt

Have you tried a tens machine?


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## Diana7

CynthiaDe said:


> They only have themselves and their foolishness to blame for losing their grandchild. I don't think it's really sad for them. I think it's their just desserts. Fools make their own misery and they often end up in ruin. That's the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> I don't feel sorry for fools. They have what's coming to them. If they repent, perhaps they can be saved, but that seldom happens. Fools rarely repent. They are mostly doomed.


They made one mistake, they probably thought they were doing the best thing for their daughter and grandchild. I am almost certain their daughter would be so very sad that her own parents cant even see her child. 
We don't know the past or what she told her parents, maybe they have real fears for the child that we don't know about. There are 2 sides to every story.


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## Maricha75

Diana7 said:


> They made one mistake, they probably thought they were doing the best thing for their daughter and grandchild. I am almost certain their daughter would be so very sad that her own parents cant even see her child.
> We don't know the past or what she told her parents, maybe they have real fears for the child that we don't know about. There are 2 sides to every story.


Diana, you may be right that their daughter would have wanted her parents to have continued contact. However, as you stated, they made "one mistake". Their actions cost them. They have lost Just's trust. They have to earn that back. They made the choice to try to take Just's son from him. Now, they have to deal with the consequences of that "one mistake". 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## gswfan

If you were traveling where was the child. Did he go through the crash also?


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## Maricha75

gswfan said:


> If you were traveling where was the child. Did he go through the crash also?


He already stated that his son was at his parents' house. They were on Their way to pick him up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> They made one mistake, they probably thought they were doing the best thing for their daughter and grandchild. I am almost certain their daughter would be so very sad that her own parents cant even see her child.
> We don't know the past or what she told her parents, maybe they have real fears for the child that we don't know about. There are 2 sides to every story.


You are placing the burden on the person who has been violated rather than on the people who are causing the harm. That is evil.

When people are under pressure, their true character becomes obvious. Now we know the true character of these people, which is that they believe they are entitled. Having an entitlement attitude is dangerous to others, because they will take what they believe is theirs if they can get away with it.

These grandparents have shown no remorse. They have made zero attempt to repent or to repair the damage that they have done. Instead they have continued to make demands and to show their true, dangerous colors. These are not simply sad, grieving parents. They are mean people. Enabling them in their delusion is answering a fool according to his folly, which only emboldens them further and makes a fool out of the person answering.

There are two sides to every story, but would you say that to a rape victim? How about to a kidnapping victim? You are implying that the OP has something to do with their foolish behavior, but you have shown zero evidence to back your side to the story. You are adding to the torment of this grieving man who is already suffering emotional and physical pain.




Maricha75 said:


> Diana, you may be right that their daughter would have wanted her parents to have continued contact. However, as you stated, they made "one mistake". Their actions cost them. They have lost Just's trust. They have to earn that back. They made the choice to try to take Just's son from him. Now, they have to deal with the consequences of that "one mistake".


Never ever leave your child in the hands of someone you don't trust. It puts the child in danger. I cut my children off from my father when I found I could not trust him. It was difficult, but I did that right thing. The only change I would make would be to do it much sooner than I did. This OP has taken quick action, which is better than what I did.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> I can only imagine the pain you are going through both emotionally and physically. Bot take time to heal from.
> 
> Your physical pain is most likely making your emotional pain even worse. Like you said, not sleeping gives you way too many night time hours to replay that night and feel your loss. Sometimes one feeds the other. The physical pain keeps you up and increases the emotional pain. And when the emotional pain increases, it leads to more physical pain.
> 
> One thing that I know works for sleep is melatonin. It’s the hormone that your body makes to tell itse’f to go to sleep. It’s available just about everywhere that sells vitamins. It works. Not sure is it will override serious pain, but I know it works. I’ve used it a lot in the past when I went through periods of time when I could not sleep without it (I will not take prescription sleep meds and void the over the counter sleep meds.)
> 
> If you could control more of the physical pain and get sleep, you would also do better emotionally. Is there any way that you can get into a pain clinic? I was listing to a talk radio show this last weekend. The guest was a doctor and the topic of pain management came up. They talked about ways to reduce pain that did not involve narcotics. There were some interesting things that people learned in pain clinics that they said really worked.


I already take Melatonin to help me sleep it is about the only reason I have been getting what little sleep I have ben getting as it is in all honesty. No I haven't looked into a pain clinic mostly because I think they mostly used narcotics and I can not be anywhere near those no matter how much I might want to because of the pain I am in. But I will ask my doctors about it, And yes if I was in less pain I would be a lot better emotionally and probably wouldn't go from being incredibly sensitive to maybe a little short tempered. 



MattMatt said:


> Have you tried a tens machine?


Honestly haven't heard of that, I will look into that though thank you.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Mizzbak said:


> Just,
> 
> I wanted to let you know that there are people thinking about you a lot, even though we can't physically be with you. But we can tell you that by putting your son's long term family needs above your righteous desire to punish his grandparent's behaviour, you are doing a very good thing for him.
> 
> When I lost someone close to me, I used to write them letters. Some of them were about how I felt about them dying, and some were just as though they were away for a while and I was keeping in touch. There were so many things that I'd never got around to telling them, and so many new things that I wanted to share. (I still have those letters.) It helped me.
> 
> (If I missed it, I apologise) but, have you considered going to counselling? You have so much to process right now. I also agree with Elegirl that physical and emotional pain magnify each other horribly. You are constrained in how you can deal with physical pain, but you could also start trying to actively deal with your emotional pain.
> 
> As always, my thoughts are with you.


No i am not in counselling I haven't had the time in all honesty between the wreck being in the hospital for so long physical therapy and the funeral and now just trying to recover and be a parent to my son. Honestly I haven't even started to grieve and it has only hit me in small clips at a time probably because I am dealing with her parents and them coming after my son and just trying to get them to be back to even keel so to speak. So I can trust them again and have them in my sons life because I don't think more family is a bad thing but how can I let them around my son with how they have acted?


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Diana7 said:


> They made one mistake, they probably thought they were doing the best thing for their daughter and grandchild. I am almost certain their daughter would be so very sad that her own parents cant even see her child.
> We don't know the past or what *she told her parents*, maybe they have real fears for the child that we don't know about. There are 2 sides to every story.


If I was truly that bad that she was bad mouthing me to her parents that she would still be marrying me? She was always defending me and never bad mouthed me. I want to say more but I won't. But I do want to ask if you truly think they with how they have acted are better and more qualified to parent my son then myself?


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I already take Melatonin to help me sleep it is about the only reason I have been getting what little sleep I have ben getting as it is in all honesty. No I haven't looked into a pain clinic mostly because I think they mostly used narcotics and I can not be anywhere near those no matter how much I might want to because of the pain I am in. But I will ask my doctors about it, And yes if I was in less pain I would be a lot better emotionally and probably wouldn't go from being incredibly sensitive to maybe a little short tempered.


Have you heard of Our Clinics | Sound Pain Solutions ? They are in Edmonds, Bellevue, and Tacoma. They offer drug free, surgical free pain solutions. They have a radio show on KTTH 770 am on Sunday at 11:00 am. I recommend you look into what they might be able to do for you.
I am sorry that you are suffering and really do hope you can find some real help. This clinic sounds promising as they use several techniques that may be of help to you without resorting to drugs.
You are brave and you are doing well to keep away from drugs.




Justtryingtosurvive said:


> No i am not in counselling I haven't had the time in all honesty between the wreck being in the hospital for so long physical therapy and the funeral and now just trying to recover and be a parent to my son. Honestly I haven't even started to grieve and it has only hit me in small clips at a time probably because I am dealing with her parents and them coming after my son and just trying to get them to be back to even keel so to speak. So I can trust them again and have them in my sons life because I don't think more family is a bad thing but how can I let them around my son with how they have acted?


It is not your job to build trust with someone who has lost your trust. That is their job. Do not worry about this. If they really do get an attorney, have your own attorney answer them. It appears that they have no rights. The best way to deal with people who are demanding and trying to scare you is to stand up and say "No! I will not be mistreated."

Do not give in to demands out of fear. If you don't trust them, your son does not belong with them for visits. You know this in your gut, which is why you are having this reaction. You are not doing anything wrong in not allowing them access. They are the ones who are in the wrong. Until or unless they go to great lengths to prove themselves to you, they should not have any access to your son. If you want to give them access in the future, if they present a solution and are willing to pay for supervised visitation after they have shown humility and contrition, then if you feel in your gut that it's okay, you can allow them supervised visitation they pay for along with professional evaluation to determine whether or not they are safe to be anywhere near your son.

It doesn't matter who might be a better parent. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this. What matters is that he is your son. The two of you belong together. That is what is best for him even if his grandparents are some kind of saints with unlimited resources. 

Don't let anyone guilt you into changing your mind. Follow your gut. Diana7 is giving you emotional advice that is way off base and is encouraging you to excuse inexcusable behavior and to put yourself and your son in harm's way.



Justtryingtosurvive said:


> If I was truly that bad that she was bad mouthing me to her parents that she would still be marrying me? She was always defending me and never bad mouthed me. I want to say more but I won't. But I do want to ask if you truly think they with how they have acted are better and more qualified to parent my son then myself?


You know your fiance. You don't have to defend yourself. She's making things up to bolster her position. No one is more qualified to parent your son than you are. I've been a parent for 23 years and have great relationships with all three of my children. I'm not more qualified to parent your son, because you two belong together.


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## MattMatt

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I already take Melatonin to help me sleep it is about the only reason I have been getting what little sleep I have ben getting as it is in all honesty. No I haven't looked into a pain clinic mostly because I think they mostly used narcotics and I can not be anywhere near those no matter how much I might want to because of the pain I am in. But I will ask my doctors about it, And yes if I was in less pain I would be a lot better emotionally and probably wouldn't go from being incredibly sensitive to maybe a little short tempered.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly haven't heard of that, I will look into that though thank you.


They are available through many retailers including Amazon USA https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...s+unit&sprefix=tens,aps,228&crid=EKIBBDB4R3GD


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## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> They made one mistake, they probably thought they were doing the best thing for their daughter and grandchild. I am almost certain their daughter would be so very sad that her own parents cant even see her child.
> We don't know the past or what she told her parents, maybe they have real fears for the child that we don't know about. There are 2 sides to every story.


One mistake.

That's all it takes to destroy something. Just one mistake. Including trust.


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## Cynthia

MattMatt said:


> One mistake.
> 
> That's all it takes to destroy something. Just one mistake. Including trust.


The thing is, it's not even a mistake. They did it on purpose. They are trying to intimidate him. That is not a mistake. Furthermore, they have done absolutely nothing reasonable to try to resolve the problem that they caused. Instead they made more demands. If this is the way these people operate under pressure, this is the worst in them coming out. Now we know who they are. They are mean, demanding, bullies who go after are person who is at his very weakest and try to run roughshod over him. Not only that, this is the man their daughter loved and chose to be the father of her child and her husband. The depth they have sunk to is astounding.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Thank you I will give both a try well hell I will give anything a try at this point that will help with this pain three weeks is enough it really needs to go away :/. I don't know if I would classify what they did as a mistake they chose to not only do it once but instead of backing down did it yet again. And Only know have they backed down and offered some kind of apology. Can't believe in another 4 months though my son will be a year old also can't believe she is going to be gone and missing out on his first birthday. Just doesn't feel right trying to parent him alone or having his first birthday without her, ya know? How do I even recover from this or even accept love into my life again. Doesn't even feel like that is possible honestly. I mean she knew all of my faults and demons and still loved me somehow, And we clicked on such a deep level and never fought at all. She was pure and just and good she didn't deserve to be taken from this earth like this, I should have been the one to die not her. I mean how does someone so good get so screwed over? God damn it just isn't fair.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Thank you I will give both a try well hell I will give anything a try at this point that will help with this pain three weeks is enough it really needs to go away :/. I don't know if I would classify what they did as a mistake they chose to not only do it once but instead of backing down did it yet again. And Only know have they backed down and offered some kind of apology. Can't believe in another 4 months though my son will be a year old also can't believe she is going to be gone and missing out on his first birthday. Just doesn't feel right trying to parent him alone or having his first birthday without her, ya know? How do I even recover from this or even accept love into my life again. Doesn't even feel like that is possible honestly. I mean she knew all of my faults and demons and still loved me somehow, And we clicked on such a deep level and never fought at all. She was pure and just and good she didn't deserve to be taken from this earth like this, I should have been the one to die not her. I mean how does someone so good get so screwed over? God damn it just isn't fair.


No it isn't fair. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. You do not deserve this and neither does your little boy. Hugs to you.


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## 225985

y.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Well, I ordered one from Amazon with the blessing of my doctor so if it works you will be a god sent Matt. Told my Lawyer though to go ahead and draw up some visitation paperwork and if they agree and sign then they can see him. I thought really hard and long about it last night and I don't feel it is my place to deny my son a relationship with his mother's side of the family no matter how they have treated me and what wrongs they have done. As much as I don't trust them and don't like them right now in good conscious I can't refuse him that relationship. I know I am going against my very own grain but if they break this agreement then they will be done forever. But just thinking back on her I don't want her to be upset with me because I refused our son a relationship with her family because of this crap that they pulled. I don't know if it is the right thing to do or not but I feel like I have to at least try right? Pain or not I am gonna be returning to work on the first of May, looking forward to it but honestly kind of scared at the same time. But I gotta get back to work and provide for my son he is my number one priority now. Can't think about myself just have to push on forward and do what is best for him. Still in disbelief he will be a year old here soon.


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## Cynthia

You have to do what you believe is right. I hope you are not pushing through your gut feeling, but are instead pushing through to the other side of anger and into forgiveness.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Pushing through my gut and anger and guilt and depression honestly a mix of things I just don't wanna have regrets down the road of have her look down from above and feel ashamed of how I handled things.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Pushing through my gut and anger and guilt and depression honestly a mix of things I just don't wanna have regrets down the road of have her look down from above and feel ashamed of how I handled things.


She won't. Something tells me she picked you because you have a tendency to do the right thing, even when it's hard.

Making decisions out of guilt and fear is dangerous. Please make your decisions based on what you believe is right. It is good that you are making a legal agreement with the grandparents in order for them to have visitation. You are thinking of your son's best interests and that's what good parents do.


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## happysnappy

I want to warn you that grandparents rights do exist in some states under certain stipulations. One of those in my state is that if your child passes you have the right to request time with your grandchildren. Read up on the laws where you are so that you are prepared. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Justtryingtosurvive

CynthiaDe said:


> She won't. Something tells me she picked you because *you have a tendency to do the right thing, even when it's hard.*
> 
> Making decisions out of guilt and fear is dangerous. Please make your decisions based on what you believe is right. It is good that you are making a legal agreement with the grandparents in order for them to have visitation. You are thinking of your son's best interests and that's what good parents do.


So many would disagree because of my past bad choices but I like to think so as well at least I hope so. I don't know what is right I hope and want to believe this is the correct course of action. I just want to do what is right by my son and I don't want to prematurely cut off a part of my sons family that might grow up to be a big part of his life. It is only good for the paperwork wise if they agree to it and don't try and fight this. And I am hoping they do not take this as a sign of some sort of weakness on my part because it is not. Just trying to move forward the best way I know how.


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## frusdil

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> *How do I even recover from this or even accept love into my life again*. Doesn't even feel like that is possible honestly. I mean she knew all of my faults and demons and still loved me somehow, And we clicked on such a deep level and never fought at all. She was pure and just and good she didn't deserve to be taken from this earth like this, I should have been the one to die not her. I mean how does someone so good get so screwed over? God damn it just isn't fair.


You don't think about future love yet OP. You get through this (not sure recover is the right word for something like this) by putting one foot in front of the other and just keep on keeping on. Sometimes it will be day by day, others will be hour by hour...you just roll with it.

Life just isn't fair sometimes, clearly your story is a case in point  I wish there was something I could say to make it better


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## phillybeffandswiss

Well good for you seeing the lawyer. Good conscious is a fake term made up to make you feel better. People all over the world cut ties with family and live just fine. If you feel this is necessary, cool, do it for you. You aren't doing it for anyone else or their memeory. No, you don't know what your fiancee would have done, nor do I and nor does anyone in this thread. You told us the story of her dressing her parents down and she decided to marry you ANYWAY, despite their dislike.

Since we are dealing in a hypothetical, maybe their daughter who was going to marry the guy THEY DIDN'T like, against their wishes, who she yelled at to accept, would really count this as the CHERRY ON TOP of the many mistakes they already made towards her fiancee and support your choice to make them earn back your trust.

None of us knows, but we do know it is your choice in the end so, own it.


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## Cynthia

Your loss is fresh and your perspective will change over time, but don't start on the path of trying to please someone who is not here to give you any feedback and who you really do not know what she would do if she could give you advice. She could be like I was with my father and tell you to cut them off until and unless they showed true remorse and were doing what it takes to be honorable and to build trust. You cannot build trust that someone else has destroyed. Only they can build trust by being trustworthy over a long period of time and doing what it takes to make amends.

Drawing up legal paperwork is fine, but don't put yourself in a position where you have signed a legal document that locks you into visitation that you can't get out of if they pull something bad. There have to be consequences for bad behavior when someone has shown themselves to be untrustworthy. Make sure you have that recourse available in the event they do something that makes you want to cut them off.


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## Thor

CynthiaDe said:


> Drawing up legal paperwork is fine, but don't put yourself in a position where you have signed a legal document that locks you into visitation that you can't get out of if they pull something bad.


^^^^ This! It cannot be stressed enough. If you put something in writing, you are obligated to it. You have set a precedent which they can then build on in court.

I would not put something in writing which gives them anything.

At 1 yr old your son does not know he is missing seeing them. He is not missing out on establishing a relationship with them. Certainly there is no reason to rush into giving them access to your son.


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## Cynthia

Thor said:


> ^^^^ This! It cannot be stressed enough. If you put something in writing, you are obligated to it. You have set a precedent which they can then build on in court.
> 
> I would not put something in writing which gives them anything.
> 
> At 1 yr old your son does not know he is missing seeing them. He is not missing out on establishing a relationship with them. Certainly there is no reason to rush into giving them access to your son.


 :iagree:

Exactly. Do not under any circumstances give them any rights they don't already have. Any agreement you make should be them agreeing that they have no rights and that they are being given an gracious opportunity to visit your son despite your reservations.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> So many would disagree because of my past bad choices but I like to think so as well at least I hope so.


There are a lot of people in this world who do not believe in redemption. They are simple minded and look at things in black & white, good & bad. I guess it makes their not have to think too much. And it makes life a lot easier for them.

All humans are flawed. If we do not allow for someone to turn their life around and redeem themselves, then we all might as well just give up.

I know drug addicts who have cleaned up their act, and some who have not. You were pretty young when you went through the addiction, you got clean and have done some good things with your life thus far. If your in-laws cannot see that, then that's on them.



Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I don't know what is right I hope and want to believe this is the correct course of action. I just want to do what is right by my son and I don't want to prematurely cut off a part of my sons family that might grow up to be a big part of his life. It is only good for the paperwork wise if they agree to it and don't try and fight this. And I am hoping they do not take this as a sign of some sort of weakness on my part because it is not. Just trying to move forward the best way I know how.


I too am concerned that by you putting visitation in writing, you are giving them rights that they do not have.

What is this agreement going to say?


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## As'laDain

My grandparents tried a whole lot of nasty tricks and backstabbing methods to steal me and my brothers from my mother. The second my father deployed or left on TDY we would get yanked around by CPS, social services, etc. My grandparents would smile to his face and at the first opportunity try to abduct us, with police escort.

It never ended until my parents moved and vanished for four years, refusing to let them know where we lived.

I wouldnt give them any legal right to your child. Ever. If they decide to play nice, they can see their grand kid on your terms.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Well, they have no rights in the state of Washington. Now I really don't know what to do, I mean I thought this would be the best idea and kill two birds with one stone so to speak. I protect myself legally and give them time to see him but also if they try and do anything shady then I have legal recourse as I can show the courts the paperwork ext. The agreement was just going to say that they could see him on days that I designate and could change at my discretion and that if they did not return my son when I wanted then They would be in violation of the agreement and they would no longer have access to him. I don't know I just thought this was the easiest way to end this feud and I just am tired of fighting with them. And thought this would be a sort of an olive branch and end this here and now and everyone gets what they wanted. I wish this was easier in all honesty and just trying to do right by my son and honor my fiancees memory.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Well, they have no rights in the state of Washington. Now I really don't know what to do, I mean I thought this would be the best idea and kill two birds with one stone so to speak. I protect myself legally and give them time to see him but also if they try and do anything shady then I have legal recourse as I can show the courts the paperwork ext. The agreement was just going to say that they could see him on days that I designate and could change at my discretion and that if they did not return my son when I wanted then They would be in violation of the agreement and they would no longer have access to him. I don't know I just thought this was the easiest way to end this feud and I just am tired of fighting with them. And thought this would be a sort of an olive branch and end this here and now and everyone gets what they wanted. I wish this was easier in all honesty and just trying to do right by my son and honor my fiancees memory.


Did your attorney recommend this? What does he/she think?

If that's what it says, then maybe it's not too bad because it says that it's at your discretion. It gives you the right to end all contact if they continue to cause you concern. It basically say that you might agree to let them see him if they don't abuse the chance you are giving them.

What I was concerned about, and what I think others were, was if the document said something like they could have him every other Saturday from 9am to 4pm and set holiday visitation... something like that.

If you do this, make all planning with them via email.. date and hours 

Thursdays, 4/29/2017 from 1pm to 5pm.

that way, if they do not return him by 5pm and do not have a reasonable excuse, like their car really did break down, you can show the police and ask for them to escort you when you go get your son.


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## As'laDain

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Well, they have no rights in the state of Washington. Now I really don't know what to do, I mean I thought this would be the best idea and kill two birds with one stone so to speak. I protect myself legally and give them time to see him but also if they try and do anything shady then I have legal recourse as I can show the courts the paperwork ext. The agreement was just going to say that they could see him on days that I designate and could change at my discretion and that if they did not return my son when I wanted then They would be in violation of the agreement and they would no longer have access to him. I don't know I just thought this was the easiest way to end this feud and I just am tired of fighting with them. And thought this would be a sort of an olive branch and end this here and now yand everyone gets what they wanted. I wish this was easier in all honesty and just trying to do right by my son and honor my fiancees memory.


I can tell you one thing... despite the ills that my mother visited upon me and my brothers due to her abusive father, I am glad I never had to live with him. She didn't kill all of her demons, but she did a hell of a lot better than he.

Just don't obligate yourself to give them any more rights than they already have...


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> Did your attorney recommend this? What does he/she think?
> 
> If that's what it says, then maybe it's not too bad because it says that it's at your discretion. It gives you the right to end all contact if they continue to cause you concern. It basically say that you might agree to let them see him if they don't abuse the chance you are giving them.
> 
> What I was concerned about, and what I think others were, was if the document said something like they could have him every other Saturday from 9am to 4pm and set holiday visitation... something like that.
> 
> If you do this, make all planning with them via email.. date and hours
> 
> Thursdays, 4/29/2017 from 1pm to 5pm.
> 
> that way, if they do not return him by 5pm and do not have a reasonable excuse, like their car really did break down, you can show the police and ask for them to escort you when you go get your son.


Attorny was/is against this until they actually do something like take us to court and said it like you guys that I am giving them rights that they are not entitled to. But he liked the wording of how I told him to draw it up. But I haven't asked him to deliver it yet to be signed or anything like that quite yet as I am still trying to think this through and decide. I don't know I really wish they hadn't pushed it to this but I just can't deal with the fighting and really want and need this to end.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Attorny was/is against this until they actually do something like take us to court and said it like you guys that I am giving them rights that they are not entitled to. But he liked the wording of how I told him to draw it up. But I haven't asked him to deliver it yet to be signed or anything like that quite yet as I am still trying to think this through and decide. I don't know I really wish they hadn't pushed it to this but I just can't deal with the fighting and really want and need this to end.


OK, if the attorney is against it , don't do it. What you suggested it should say is what the law says right now.

IF you feel that it's best to let them see him some, what you could do is to email them and suggest a few visit days in the next month. Ask them when they would like to spend some time with him and what 2 hour block of time they would like. If you have time restrictions, then qualify it with your time restrictions. I suggest 2 hour blocks of time to start with because that way you now pretty quickly if they are up to no good. And that's about enough time for them to take him to a park for a play date and a snack.

Set up the visit via email who you have a record of exactly what is said. If they do not return at the designated time, call the police to go with you to get him. And they never get him again.

Can some kind of tracking device be put on a child? Just thinking out loud.. .I think I'm being paranoid.


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## happysnappy

Do not do it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hope1964

Do you really think that this agreement would end the problems??

I highly doubt it.


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## Evinrude58

Don't put anything in writing. If they're giving you problems, document them, record then, get a restraining order against them.

Don't let them see your son until you have zero problems with them. 

What you're doing is letting them steamroll you with constant pressure. Weakness breeds aggression. You are about to show huge weakness.


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## Taxman

Justtryingtosurvive
Your decisions have been amazing though all of this, FWIW. You have been through levels of hell that few of us here could imagine. Yes this site is frought with those who have had their lives blown to bits, however, yours is a different level. You are just recovering from physical pain, and the pain of losing the love of your life. Your son will be a comfort to you in the years to come. Mark my words on this. He will give you great joy, and the pain will eventually reduce.

Your inlaws, you will deal with. I like that your lawyer is working on a visitation agreement.


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## frusdil

CynthiaDe said:


> Drawing up legal paperwork is fine, but don't put yourself in a position where you have signed a legal document that locks you into visitation that you can't get out of if they pull something bad. There have to be consequences for bad behavior when someone has shown themselves to be untrustworthy. Make sure you have that recourse available in the event they do something that makes you want to cut them off.


^^This. Don't put anything in writing, other than the actual arrangements i.e. "Hi MIL & FIL would you like to visit with baby next Saturday at my place, is 1pm ok?"

I still wouldn't be allowing them to take him anywhere at this stage, they could only see the baby in my presence, ideally with someone else there as well.


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## Evinrude58

There is ZERO reason for a written "agreement" with them for visitation. You are the baby's only parent. They have zero "rights".
Explain this to them clearly. They will see an attorney and he will explain the law and that you are correct.

What father has a written agreement for anyone to visit his child, other than a divorced wife?

As said, just tell them when they ask that they can come over and see the baby for an hour or so under your supervision. If that's not good enough, tell them they are unwelcome and can get out of your life while you rear your son.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I don't know what I am going to do honestly now I have doubts about this. I just know I want the fighting to end, They asked to meet up again tomorrow after my physical therapy appointment and I told them if they are trying to see my son it isn't possible and that unless they are willing to apologize some more then there isn't anything to discuss. And they got defensive and angry and hung up. My inner demons are speaking so loudly lately and just taking every ounce of restraint not to go back down that road. Just need some stress gone out of my life and I hope they realize the amount of pressure they are putting me under at a time in which I don't need any more stress. But all I have to do to quiet those demons is to look at my son and think about my fiancee and it eases those demons. I am trying to push past my anger at them but they honestly aren't making it easy and I am trying to move towards forgiveness but they aren't making that easy either. I really just want to cut them out totally but I don't want to be like that to my sons grandparents and just thinking about her makes me not want to go down that road with them. I know how much she loved them even when she knew they didn't approve of me.


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## EleGirl

Would your sister or parents be willing to handle the interface with your in-laws? That might be a way to handle it. Let them set up any meetups and supervise them. You don't even need to be there.

Just an alternative idea that might work.


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## Evinrude58

This is the thing: you do not have to make a decision about anything right now. You don't have to answer their calls. You don't have to let anyone see your baby.
You don't have to make any deals.

Don't get angry. Know that you aren't required to deal with them and just get healthy mentally and physically.

If you have to talk to them again out of guilt, tell them that you just lost your wife and have a son to see after; you're physically and mentally exhausted and they ar adding to your pain and stress. That you know the want to see their grandson, but they have threatened you with losing your own son and that singular act is more than enough for any reasonable person to cut them totally out of their life. Tell them if they are so stupid as to not see that they are painting you in a corner over your son, that you will wash your hands of them completely. 
Tell them you need some time to get well, and then you may choose to revisit their concerns about seeing your son, but that you will not be bullied and pressured into anything concerning him, particularly after their threats.
Then hang up the phone and record any conversations you have with them in the future.


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## Cynthia

You do not have to deal with this right now. If you want the fighting to stop, you can do that without giving up any of your rights. If you think that you can solve this by giving into them, I think you are wrong. These sound like people who is you give them an inch they will take a mile. They are showing you that they do not respect or trust you, yet their behavior shows that they are not trustworthy and they do not have your best interests at heart. The don't even have their own grandchild's best interests at heart either, because they are thinking about trying to remove him from the care of his father. The level of dysfunction in these people is staggering.

Text them and let them know that you are taking a break from communicating with them until/unless you are ready and they show full repentance. They have been hostile towards you and you are not going to deal with them right now.

Do not tell them you are weak or any kind of personal information that they could possibly use against you. Just let them know that you are blocking their number as you cannot tolerate further harassment. Be sure to use the word harassment.

If you don't want to fight, stay away from people who are starting fights. Bullies cannot be placated. When you show weakness, they will only press for more. They have clearly shown they do not care about you. Your fiancee doesn't sound like the kind of person who would put up with this. She would expect you to take care of your son and to not allow yourself to be abused by people who don't care about you, even though they are her parents.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that your fiancee would want you to let her parents run roughshod over you. From what you have said of her, it doesn't sound like she would tolerate this from them.


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## Cynthia

When I am talking about a legal document, this is what I had in mind. It forces the grandparents to acknowledge your parental rights and to abide by your wishes. There is no visitation schedule and they are given zero rights, but agree to stop harassing you and threatening you in order to see their grandson. If they are unwilling to sign such a document it shows that they are not safe. These are very basic human rights for you as a parent. If they cannot acknowledge these things, they are a danger to your family. Here is an example of what I’m talking about:

We, (grandparents names), recognize that justtryingtosurvive is the parent and legal guardian of (name of child) and that he therefore has the authority to either allow or deny visitation with his son, (name of child). We agree to abide by the wishes of justtryingtosurvive regarding (name of child) when or if we are allowed visitation. 

We agree not to harass and/or threaten justtryingtosurvive and agree to stop any effort to obtain custody of (name of child).

If or when justtryingtosurvive allows us visitation of (name of child) we agree to care for (name of child) in a healthy and safe manner and to return him to the place designated by justtryintosurvive at the time designated by justtryingtosurvive.


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## 225985

.


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## Jo3163

Be on guard. I've seen grandparents get down and dirty to get custody of a grandchild. You need to spend time thinking about or writing down any and all skeletons that you might have in your past that they could possibly use against you because if you do have anything remotely damaging that they know about, they'll use it against you. They might even hire an investigator to dig into your past. Protect yourself starting now. Sorry for your loss but you could lose your son if you don't stay alert and focused on self-protection.


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## Cynthia

Even if the grandparents were able to show that you were an unfit parent (I don't know how they could do that. You are a dedicated father.), that does not mean they would be first in line to be the guardians of the child. Your son has other relatives. Don't you have siblings? They would be considered more fit due to being young. 

The whole idea that they could get custody of your son is ludicrous. If it ever happened it would be due to corruption.

I think you should stop worrying. Cut them off and let them stew in their own juices. Don't give them another thought. Especially at your son's very young age, he is not going to know any difference. When he gets older he can decide what he wants to do. Yes, they may miss out on his childhood, but that's on them. If they want to be terrible people there isn't anything you can do to stop them, but you don't have to give them access to your child.

The main issue I see with all this is that you are giving in to people who are mistreating you because their mistreatment is stressing you out. It's not logical. If someone mistreats you that shouldn't give them what they want. Just the opposite. It should be the reason for cutting them off and blocking their number so you don't have to deal with their nonsense. You might want to consider changing your number rather than blocking them.

When you are stronger, you can decide if you want to allow them any kind of visitation and only under your terms, but right now you are letting something bother you that really isn't your problem. It's the grandparent's problem they are trying to put off on you. Let go of false guilt and move on with your healing. Don't let them get in the way of your healing and your personal wellbeing. Right now you have given them that power, but you can take it away by not allowing them to mess with you any longer.


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## Diana7

I think that if you try and show them some compassion and let them see their dead daughters only child you wont regret it. Some of the posts here are very OTT. They are not going to run off to Mexico with the child.

As a grandparent myself I am able to see things from both sides, while many here cant.


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## lorikeet25

I think you should postpone any formal decisions. Let them see him or not for the time being, but do not put anything in writing giving them rights. Do what your lawyer says. That's why you hired him. 

Later when you are stronger, revisit the issue. But for now, block them. Email only. Do not engage. 

If you would like them to spend time with him, have a trusted family member proxy it.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> I think that if you try and show them some compassion and let them see their dead daughters only child you wont regret it. Some of the posts here are very OTT. They are not going to run off to Mexico with the child.
> 
> As a grandparent myself I am able to see things from both sides, while many here cant.


You have no idea what the GP will and will not do. You don’t even know them.

What we do know is what the OP has told us. Two times the GP threatened to take his son away from him via legal action. That is a real threat that he needs to take seriously. They have already promised him that they intend to take custody of his son. Why are you continually ignoring this?

I'd love to watch your reaction if someone threatened to take legal action to take your children away from you. 

And you are wrong that other posters here cannot see things from all sides. The thing is that others here have experiences that YOU DO NOT have.

For example, I have a nephew who lost all rights to even have visits with his son because his ex-wife’s mother decided that she wanted 100% custody and she got it. He took the stance that you are suggesting, be kind, don’t distrust them, blah blah. She and her husband were able to get custody because they are filthy rich, they are close friends with all the judges, and my nephew had a few things in his past. (Like 2 DWI’s 15 years prior while in the military… in VA Beach for riding a bike back to the hotel. Yep a DWI while riding a bike. And he lost his son over that.) Oh, and to make matters worse, the Grandmother who got 100% custody of his son, is a raging alcoholic. But she knew all the judges, many of whom are her drinking buddies.

You clearly have no idea the depth of horror that some grandparents will do to get control of their grandchildren. 

My nephew has not seen his son in 10 years. He does have another son with his first wife. They get along great and are very good co-parents. He is an excellent father.


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## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> I think that if you try and show them some compassion and let them see their dead daughters only child you wont regret it. Some of the posts here are very OTT. They are not going to run off to Mexico with the child.
> 
> As a grandparent myself I am able to see things from both sides, while many here cant.


I am a grandparent. This is not about seeing the side of the grandparents. They are way out of line. I don't think they will run off to another country, but I do not trust them. They have shown that they have nefarious plans against justtryingtosurvive. 

Compassion is one thing. Giving into bullying behavior is quite another. It is really odd that you think the grandparents can threaten and demand from the father of this child and he should give into them out of compassion. Giving in to threats only encourages people to issue threats. It's not compassionate to enable people in their dysfunction and sin.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Stressed is a nice way of putting it severely depressed is another just been hitting me like a ton of bricks past few days. I didn't go meet them and have honestly rethought out the agreement I was ready to have them sign. I don't know what to do honestly but I want to do what is right. And no she probably wouldn't have put up with what her parents have pulled but they have at least been semi-tolerable as of late. All I know is I need my space not just from them but from everyone, Having family around every day is helpful and I love them for it but I do need my space for a while. I just need some space to process and mourn and try and see if I can function on my own. I texted them after my PT appointment that I would appreciate if they didn't contact me for a few weeks and allow me some space they never texted me back. But I will be telling my family the same thing here after today. But I wish she was here instead of me, None of these issues would be happening had she survived my family wouldn't of tried to take our son from her and her parents wouldn't of gone off of the deep end.


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## EleGirl

If you need some space, have you considered going somewhere on your own? You could leave your son in the care of your parents and go on the trip.. not too long, but a few days.

Do you have a friend or family member who will go with you?

You need to focus on yourself for a while so that you can be strong for your son.


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## GTdad

Diana7 said:


> I think that if you try and show them some compassion and let them see their dead daughters only child you wont regret it. Some of the posts here are very OTT. They are not going to run off to Mexico with the child.
> 
> As a grandparent myself I am able to see things from both sides, while many here cant.





CynthiaDe said:


> I am a grandparent. This is not about seeing the side of the grandparents. They are way out of line. I don't think they will run off to another country, but I do not trust them.


I'm a grandparent as well, and if ever I was so stupid and insensitive as to threaten a son-in-law or daughter-in-law with seeking custody of a grandchild under similar circumstances, I would hope they would have enough self-respect and spine to tell me to go piss up a rope.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Well, they have no rights in the state of Washington. Now I really don't know what to do, I mean I thought this would be the best idea and kill two birds with one stone so to speak. I protect myself legally and give them time to see him but also if they try and do anything shady then I have legal recourse as I can show the courts the paperwork ext. The agreement was just going to say that they could see him on days that I designate and could change at my discretion and that if they did not return my son when I wanted then They would be in violation of the agreement and they would no longer have access to him. I don't know I just thought this was the easiest way to end this feud and I just am tired of fighting with them. And thought this would be a sort of an olive branch and end this here and now and everyone gets what they wanted. I wish this was easier in all honesty and just trying to do right by my son and honor my fiancees memory.


How is everyone getting what they wanted, when you have repeatedly expressed you do not want them around? No, this is called trying to make others happy at your expense.
Also, you are assuming they would sign something with this type of caveat. First it alerts them to a lawyer. Second, I'd keep it and use it against you in court. Once it is filed in court, you are locked in.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> If you need some space, have you considered going somewhere on your own? You could leave your son in the care of your parents and go on the trip.. not too long, but a few days.
> 
> Do you have a friend or family member who will go with you?
> 
> You need to focus on yourself for a while so that you can be strong for your son.


I feel guilty even thinking about leaving my son with my parents or sisters. But If I were to do it I would want to be alone and not have people with me. I just I don't know Just want everyone to give me a bit alone for awhile need to process and go through my emotions. I feel so incredibly depressed but I have pushed those emotions aside at least best I can so I don't show it to anyone. But I feel like if I left my kid with my family for awhile then I am a bad parents and that maybe they are right that I can't do this and I don't want to push my kid away.


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## happysnappy

We all need a break. It doesn't make you a bad parent. It will probably make you a better parent in the long run. It's like they tell you on an airplane. Put your oxygen mask on before you help your child. You need to take care of you so you can be the best dad you can be. You deserve to grieve and heal. If you're happy, you're little one will be too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I feel guilty even thinking about leaving my son with my parents or sisters. But If I were to do it I would want to be alone and not have people with me. I just I don't know Just want everyone to give me a bit alone for awhile need to process and go through my emotions. I feel so incredibly depressed but I have pushed those emotions aside at least best I can so I don't show it to anyone. But I feel like if I left my kid with my family for awhile then I am a bad parents and that maybe they are right that I can't do this and I don't want to push my kid away.


Taking time to take care of yourself is not being a bad parent. It’s actually being a good parent. You will be a better parent if you are in a better place emotionally.

You need some time in which you are not pushing your emotions aside to hide them from everyone else. You need time to just let them take your over for a bit. There are some things in life that the only way to shed them is to walk right through the middle of it—like walking through the fires of hell. 

I’ve been through a few things like that. 

Can you take things like anti-depressants? I think that there are some that you could take. If you could, they could really help you through this. They usually just lift the weight of depression and make it a lot easier to work through it.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> Taking time to take care of yourself is not being a bad parent. It’s actually being a good parent. You will be a better parent if you are in a better place emotionally.
> 
> You need some time in which you are not pushing your emotions aside to hide them from everyone else. You need time to just let them take your over for a bit. There are some things in life that the only way to shed them is to walk right through the middle of it—like walking through the fires of hell.
> 
> I’ve been through a few things like that.
> 
> Can you take things like anti-depressants? I think that there are some that you could take. If you could, they could really help you through this. They usually just lift the weight of depression and make it a lot easier to work through it.


I suppose, But I would need to go to a therapist/Psychiatrist, And I am not seeing one of those right now mostly because I usually don't like taking meds because of my history. But if they can help I am up for whatever just so long as they just don't try and mask it all or try and make me forget it all. If that makes any sense I don't know. Told my family to give me some space today and they immediately think I am going to do something dumb when I am not. Don't know why asking for space garners such a reaction from everyone. Space is just space need to be able to mourn on my own terms without everyone hovering over me all the dam time, Ya know?


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## Maricha75

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I suppose, But I would need to go to a therapist/Psychiatrist, And I am not seeing one of those right now mostly because I usually don't like taking meds because of my history. But if they can help I am up for whatever just so long as they just don't try and mask it all or try and make me forget it all. If that makes any sense I don't know. Told my family to give me some space today and they immediately think I am going to do something dumb when I am not. Don't know why asking for space garners such a reaction from everyone. Space is just space need to be able to mourn on my own terms without everyone hovering over me all the dam time, Ya know?


Go to a psychologist. No meds with them. Go to one who also addresses addiction, explain your history and that you would prefer to try coping mechanisms thst do NOT require medications. The psychologist can assess and refer you to a psychiatrist IF meds become necessary. But if they do prescribe meds, continue with the psychologist, anyway, to keep working on trying to get off the meds, if possible. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

About you getting away for a while. About an hours drive from where I live there are natural hot springs. There's a place there that has all kinds of therapy and healing things that they offer. As well as just soaking in the hot springs. Now, I don't know if you can get in hot springs right now as I don't how what your injuries are and how much any incisions and/or wounds might be healed. But the therapeutic benefits of the place sounds healing. I know people who have gone there and they all say good things about it.

I wonder if there is any place like that near you. Either hot springs, or some resort or get away place that would cater to taking care of you for even a day or two. This could give you the time away but make it a short time away, one or two days, so that you do not feel so guilty about leaving your son with your family.



Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I suppose, But I would need to go to a therapist/Psychiatrist, And I am not seeing one of those right now mostly because I usually don't like taking meds because of my history. But if they can help I am up for whatever just so long as they just don't try and mask it all or try and make me forget it all. If that makes any sense I don't know. Told my family to give me some space today and they immediately think I am going to do something dumb when I am not. Don't know why asking for space garners such a reaction from everyone. Space is just space need to be able to mourn on my own terms without everyone hovering over me all the dam time, Ya know?


Your primary care physician can prescribe anti-depressants. If you want to see a psychiatrist for your depression you could. Or you could get the meds from your doc and then see a therapist if you want some talk therapy. 

Most anti depressants do not work on the brain in the same way that heroin does. So I don't think that they are an issue with your history of heroin addiction. 

Antidepressants do not make the feelings you have or make you forget it. They left the weight of the depression and allow you to feel the loss and pain in a way that is much easier to handle.

Its like if you have a snow storm that buries your garden, freezes it and destroys the plants. Once the heavy, cold, harsh blanket of snow is gone the plants are still dead, but you can tend to your garden and being it back to life.


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## EleGirl

Can you do any physical exercise right now? Can you walk much or jog?

What physical exercise did you do before your accident?


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## Thor

There are some natural non-prescription supplements with an excellent record of helping depression and anxiety. They don't have the side effects of the prescription meds. Studies show them to be as effective or even more effective than the prescription meds.

I suggest you see a clinical psychologist. This is a person with a Ph.D. in psychology. They are not MDs and thus cannot prescribe meds. Many of them are very familiar with the natural supplements. I believe you would be best served to be under the care of a professional to monitor how the supplements are working for you. Also, psychologists will work with an MD to get you prescription anti-depressants if the supplements are not right for you.

Depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain. There is no shame in needing help for it. Exercise, good nutrition, supplements, and having a healthy lifestyle can help tremendously. You have been through a terrible experience and I think working with an experienced professional in real life (not us strangers on the internet) is what you need for a good recovery. You mentioned PT. Going to your PT is a world of difference than reading about it on the internet. Same with your mental health, going to a professional in real life will be much more effective than reading about it on this screen.


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## MattMatt

Diana7 said:


> I think that if you try and show them some compassion and let them see their dead daughters only child you wont regret it. Some of the posts here are very OTT. They are not going to run off to Mexico with the child.
> 
> As a grandparent myself I am able to see things from both sides, while many here cant.


They might run off to Mexico. Or anywhere for that matter. Or they may not.

We don't know.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> About you getting away for a while. About an hours drive from where I live there are natural hot springs. There's a place there that has all kinds of therapy and healing things that they offer. As well as just soaking in the hot springs. Now, I don't know if you can get in hot springs right now as I don't how what your injuries are and how much any incisions and/or wounds might be healed. But the therapeutic benefits of the place sounds healing. I know people who have gone there and they all say good things about it.
> 
> I wonder if there is any place like that near you. Either hot springs, or some resort or get away place that would cater to taking care of you for even a day or two. This could give you the time away but make it a short time away, one or two days, so that you do not feel so guilty about leaving your son with your family.
> 
> 
> 
> Your primary care physician can prescribe anti-depressants. If you want to see a psychiatrist for your depression you could. Or you could get the meds from your doc and then see a therapist if you want some talk therapy.
> 
> Most anti depressants do not work on the brain in the same way that heroin does. So I don't think that they are an issue with your history of heroin addiction.
> 
> Antidepressants do not make the feelings you have or make you forget it. They left the weight of the depression and allow you to feel the loss and pain in a way that is much easier to handle.
> 
> Its like if you have a snow storm that buries your garden, freezes it and destroys the plants. Once the heavy, cold, harsh blanket of snow is gone the plants are still dead, but you can tend to your garden and being it back to life.


Sugesting like I go to a resort of some kind? I mean we have those just not sure how helpful it would be since I have more then a few incisions on me. Before the wreck I would run for a mile every morning before work but can't do that right now. I guess I can ask my doctor about them and see what he thinks just worry about drugging mysel and not being able to properly work through what I am currently feeling, ya know? I had to block her parents phone numbers today because they called me today like three different times but didn't leave any messages and then my family ignores my request to be left alone and dropped by. Really frustrating when no one wants to give you the space you need right now. I feel like if I am gonna get away I will just try and get to this hotel in the mountains my fiancee and I used to escape away to. But then again I feel so guilty trying to do something like that and offloading my son on my parents for a few days.


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## Cynthia

It is wise that you to blocked the grandparents. That is how you stop fighting - by simply not engaging with them in their dysfunction. If they show up at your house, I recommend calling 911 and having the police remove them. At this point they are harassing you. Turn the tables on them so you are the one in control. If you are constantly giving in to them, there will be more trouble. Stop engaging them.

I think I wrote this before, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself. Even if the grandparents tried for custody, they are not the only game in town. Your family is right there to help you. You have many options, including moving away from them. 

They have put fear into your heart. That is why things have escalated. They said things to scare you. You took the bait and are on the defensive. They are the ones who should be on the defensive. Turn the tables on them. I don't mean by trying to scare them. I mean by no longer being on the defensive. Speak to your attorney about getting a restraining order against them. That would be the most likely thing to put you in a position of power, if you can get it. They need to be slapped down. If they show up at your place and you call 911 rather than answering the door, that will go a long way in putting you in this position of power that you need to be in.

Having a record that you called 911 to stop them goes a long way in any kind of legal proceeding. It's better that you are the first rather than them finding some way to start it off legally.

Edit: I've been thinking about the above and think you have to come right out and tell them to stop harassing you before you get the police involved. Once you tell them to leave you alone and, "Don't call me. I might call you." They do not have a right to contact or communicate with you without your consent. When they force themselves on you, that is where they cross the line. That is why you have to clearly tell them to leave you and your son alone that they are harassing you. It is best to do this in writing that you can prove you have done it.


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## 225985

.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sugesting like I go to a resort of some kind? I mean we have those just not sure how helpful it would be since I have more then a few incisions on me. Before the wreck I would run for a mile every morning before work but can't do that right now. I guess I can ask my doctor about them and see what he thinks just worry about drugging mysel and not being able to properly work through what I am currently feeling, ya know? I had to block her parents phone numbers today because they called me today like three different times but didn't leave any messages and then my family ignores my request to be left alone and dropped by. Really frustrating when no one wants to give you the space you need right now. I feel like if I am gonna get away I will just try and get to this hotel in the mountains my fiancee and I used to escape away to. But then again I feel so guilty trying to do something like that and offloading my son on my parents for a few days.


Anti depressant do not drug you and make it so you cannot work through things. They make it so you can work through them.

If you have incisions that have not completely healed, they a spa would probably not be a good place for you. It was only one positon thing. Going to a retreat like you suggest might be good. But going to one that you went with her might be hard on you. Or it might help you heal.

You really need to get over the idea that asking your family is a burden on them. My bet is that they would be more than glad to take care of your little guy for a few days. I know that I be more than happy to care for a grandchild for a few days... that's just fun.

To me, you sound like you are really struggling with the thing of needing time alone. Take the time so that you can return refreshed and in a better mental state.


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## Cynthia

blueinbr said:


> Agree. Do it in writing. Make a copy of the letter for your records and post office mail it to them as a register letter. That provides legal documentation of delivery.


You're right. This is a much better way than what I suggested.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Evinrude58 said:


> This is the thing: you do not have to make a decision about anything right now. You don't have to answer their calls. You don't have to let anyone see your baby.
> You don't have to make any deals.
> 
> Don't get angry. Know that you aren't required to deal with them and just get healthy mentally and physically.
> 
> If you have to talk to them again out of guilt, tell them that you just lost your wife and have a son to see after; you're physically and mentally exhausted and they ar adding to your pain and stress. That you know the want to see their grandson, but they have threatened you with losing your own son and that singular act is more than enough for any reasonable person to cut them totally out of their life. Tell them if they are so stupid as to not see that they are painting you in a corner over your son, that you will wash your hands of them completely.
> Tell them you need some time to get well, and then you may choose to revisit their concerns about seeing your son, but that you will not be bullied and pressured into anything concerning him, particularly after their threats.
> Then hang up the phone and record any conversations you have with them in the future.


See, this acknowledges their plight without an apology or admission you are wrong. I'd tone it down a bit like removing"cut out" "stupid" and "bullied," all phrases and words I agree with, but this is what I mean by not saying you are sorry or admitting any wrong.


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## Cynthia

Even the people who think you should give them visitation haven't suggested you apologize or give up any of your rights as a parent.


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## phillybeffandswiss

I had a long post, but decided to tone it way down. Still, I will play the "Grandparent here" appeal to authority card as well. I have guardianship of my Granddaughter. In my state it keeps CPS out of your hair unlike custody. I had my daughter talk to a lawyer and legal aide on my dime. Both people told her, you are basically signing ALL of your rights away and the court looks at that if you decide to fight to get her back. DO NOT sign or give ANY of your rights away. Court Ordered Visitation is an OPEN door for them to ask and fight to get more rights. No, I am not saying don't ever let them see their grandson. Nope, I am not saying they will get more rights, but why let them get a foot in the door?

I asked about setting up some type of court order visitation to make sure my daughter saw her child. The lawyer told me "nope, keep everything off the book and under your control." If you legally do it one way, you can NEVER rescind it without a long possibly expensive battle. In this way, if she screws up, I can say "nope, not until you get your act together." A few times, early in the changeover, I had to pull this card on her. If I would have been the "nice guy" who knows what would have happen.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Not trying to give up any of my rights as a parent nor would I ever want that. But I am just trying to resolve this conflict as easy as I possibly can whilst getting them out of my hair which clearly isn't happening as they just won't lay off but I blocked them and if they need to get ahold of me they can email me. And to the point of I needing to not feel like a burden with asking my family for help when it comes to my son it is truly hard to do so and get past those feelings for the hell that I put them through. And that is why when I got clean and decided to go back to school and get my degree and a nice job I never asked them for help or wanted it I did it all on my own and that is why I always pay when we go out as a family ext because I owe them so much. I know going to the place my fiancee and I went to might not be the best but I feel like it would help me heal and so I booked a stay for this coming weekend and will try and get away for a bit. And I will ask my parents if they are willing to watch my son for a few days. Hoping I don't inconvenience them at all. Older sister called and asked me why I needed to be alone and that I shouldn't be alone and that she knows our parents can be overbearing but they mean the best and all that Jazz. And then Point blank asked me if I was gonna do anything stupid, and I got really disgusted with that question and annoyed with her instantly that she would ask. Not gonna do anything Got my boy to take care of now as I am all he has left and I don't plan on ever leaving him.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Not trying to give up any of my rights as a parent nor would I ever want that. But I am just trying to resolve this conflict as easy as I possibly can whilst getting them out of my hair which clearly isn't happening as they just won't lay off but I blocked them and if they need to get ahold of me they can email me. And to the point of I needing to not feel like a burden with asking my family for help when it comes to my son it is truly hard to do so and get past those feelings for the hell that I put them through. And that is why when I got clean and decided to go back to school and get my degree and a nice job I never asked them for help or wanted it I did it all on my own and that is why I always pay when we go out as a family ext because I owe them so much. I know going to the place my fiancee and I went to might not be the best but I feel like it would help me heal and so I booked a stay for this coming weekend and will try and get away for a bit. And I will ask my parents if they are willing to watch my son for a few days. Hoping I don't inconvenience them at all. Older sister called and asked me why I needed to be alone and that I shouldn't be alone and that she knows our parents can be overbearing but they mean the best and all that Jazz. And then Point blank asked me if I was gonna do anything stupid, and I got really disgusted with that question and annoyed with her instantly that she would ask. Not gonna do anything Got my boy to take care of now as I am all he has left and I don't plan on ever leaving him.


I'm glad that you are taking a break. It is not all that long and I think you need it.

I also think you need to cut your sister some slack for her asking that. She just concerned about you for good reasons. Your life is pretty tough right now. She knows it. I can hear it in your 'voice' here.

Most single parents struggle with being 100% responsible 24/7. You are no different. Don't put the burden on yourself to expect that you won't have the normal issues with single parenting 24/7. You don't need to be Super Dad. It's ok to ask others for help. I'll bet that your family does not mind at all. Most grand parents love to get time with their grand kids. 

You are human. It's ok to struggle. It's ok to need help sometimes.


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## Wolfman1968

Here's my take. But don't listen to me, listen to your LAWYER.

I would change my phone number. If I could, I would move, and not given them my forwarding address.

The more of an established relationship they have, the more traction they may have in future court proceedings. Right now, the baby doesn't really know them, so this is the best time to cut it off before it begins, in my view. Instead, build a relationship with YOUR family. But don't do it in a hostile manner, and don't even do a formal "you'll never see them again" phone call. Just do it like you were too busy and forgot to give them your forwarding address. If they don't know where you are, they really can't call Child Protective Services on you to lodge a false complaint, can they?

I say this because you mentioned your demons. And the cynical part of me just wondered--could it just be possible that they are INTENTIONALLY trying to provoke you in the hope that you could relapse into your old ways from the stress, allowing them to swoop in with a court ordered custody to "protect' their grandchild? It sounds far-fetched, but then, who knows?

Again, don't listen to ME listen to your LAWYER!.


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## TaDor

@Justtryingtosurvive : Hope you get a break over the weekend. Please don't let them stress you into your demons that you have won against so many years before. And as posted, its possible that they maybe doing it on purpose. Get your space for a few days and work on some long-term plans.

Something to consider: Move to another state... or another city that is far away from the grandparents that are in a different court district than where they live. 
Only people who know where you live are your parents & sister. Block off all contact connections to those grandparents. The letter about harassment seems like a good idea, maybe remind them that they brought it on themselves.

Talk to your family about this drama crap. You are not asking them for help. You are asking them for support. There is a difference. If you move out of town or state, they can also be the buffer to tell them to ****** off.

Your son needs you to be strong and clear-headed. He'll do fine with one set of grandparents.


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## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Not trying to give up any of my rights as a parent nor would I ever want that. But I am just trying to resolve this conflict as easy as I possibly can whilst getting them out of my hair which clearly isn't happening as they just won't lay off but I blocked them and if they need to get ahold of me they can email me.


You can't make someone do the right thing. That's on them. By blocking them and taking steps to distance yourself from them, you are putting up a fence around yourself and your son so they can't walk right in at will. Do not ever think that giving in to them will work. When people use force to get what they want, it only makes them bolder about taking what they want. If they run into interference, it may stop them. Even you end up having to fight them, it's okay, because with people like that if you had given in to their demands, their demands would only increase and the relationship further degrade with them trying to manipulate and control you.



Justtryingtosurvive said:


> And to the point of I needing to not feel like a burden with asking my family for help when it comes to my son it is truly hard to do so and get past those feelings for the hell that I put them through. And that is why when I got clean and decided to go back to school and get my degree and a nice job I never asked them for help or wanted it I did it all on my own and that is why I always pay when we go out as a family ext because I owe them so much. I know going to the place my fiancee and I went to might not be the best but I feel like it would help me heal and so I booked a stay for this coming weekend and will try and get away for a bit. And I will ask my parents if they are willing to watch my son for a few days. Hoping I don't inconvenience them at all. Older sister called and asked me why I needed to be alone and that I shouldn't be alone and that she knows our parents can be overbearing but they mean the best and all that Jazz. And then Point blank asked me if I was gonna do anything stupid, and I got really disgusted with that question and annoyed with her instantly that she would ask. Not gonna do anything Got my boy to take care of now as I am all he has left and I don't plan on ever leaving him.


The fact that they want to be there for you shows that they are not thinking the way you are. In close relationships, people support and help each other. That is what is happening in your family. I don't think they see it as you owing them. They help you because you are a part of them and they see it as not their duty, but as a flow of their love for you and your son. Let them love you. Love them back. Tell them all the time how much you love and appreciate them. Read about love languages and learn what their love languages are, then use that to bless them and let them know how much you love and appreciate them. It will deepen your relationships and shift the dynamic where are not feeling obligated, but are acting out of your love for them.

Your loving connection with your family will help you stay away from addiction and walk in health. It's for all of you. They benefit as much as you do from loving connection. So does your son.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry, I'm going tone deaf. Time for you to grow the **** up. You are a recovering HEROIN addict. You don't get to play the disgusted, angry or hurt card because people worry about you doing something bad. YOU DID SOMETHING REALLY BAD. It doesn't just magically go away because, in the following years, you got your life back together. You are Twenty Five with a ton of stress, a ton of pain and you are most likely giving off all of the old signs which led you to addiction. If you were forty five, with the past way in the past, I'd understand. You said high school so, while I do not know the age you started, ended, or recovered it hasn't been twenty years of rebuilt trust.
The worst thing you can do is have disgust for the people who are helping you. If they start to worry, guess who that helps? Hint, it isn't you, your son or your family. Suck it up and realize they get to worry about you, EVEN IF it bothers or disgusts you.


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## Kivlor

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I'm going tone deaf. Time for you to grow the **** up. You are a recovering HEROIN addict. You don't get to play the disgusted, angry or hurt card because people worry about you doing something bad. YOU DID SOMETHING REALLY BAD. It doesn't just magically go away because, in the following years, you got your life back together. You are Twenty Five with a ton of stress, a ton of pain and you are most likely giving off all of the old signs which led you to addiction. If you were forty five, with the past way in the past, I'd understand. You said high school so, while I do not know the age you started, ended, or recovered it hasn't been twenty years of rebuilt trust.
> The worst thing you can do is have disgust for the people who are helping you. If they start to worry, guess who that helps? Hint, it isn't you, your son or your family. Suck it up and realize they get to worry about you, EVEN IF it bothers or disgusts you.


^^^This^^^

Plus I just want to add that I think it's a huge positive that your sister is tuned in enough to be looking out for you, and that she cares enough to ask, no matter how awkward the question had to be to put out there. Take it as a good thing. You've go family that are looking out for you and your kid.


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## Thor

EleGirl said:


> You really need to get over the idea that asking your family is a burden on them. My bet is that they would be more than glad to take care of your little guy for a few days. I know that I be more than happy to care for a grandchild for a few days... that's just fun.


Yes times 1 million!

I would do anything to help out one of my kids in this kind of situation. I even make excuses to just show up on my daughter's doorstep so I can take the grandkids out to the park or out to the dessert shop. I was the babysitter for the grandkids much of the summer and had a fantastic time! I'm plotting a weekend outdoors class with the eldest grandchild this summer.

It is a pleasure to watch the grandkids, even the infant. And I desire to be helpful to my kids.

Don't hesitate to ask your parents to help you out.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I understand all of that but it is easier said than done, I got addicted in my teens and got clean at about 18. And I felt bad immediately after I got upset with my sister for getting upset because I know she and my family mean well but I have all the incentive in the world to stay on the straight and narrow now with my son. Gotta be there for him and be a good role model for him. I asked my mom if she would watch him for a few days and she jumped at the chance so really happy about that but even she was concerned about me spending a weekend alone and had to reassure her everything would be fine and that I just need time to work through my emotions and grief without people around me. Fiancee's parents also emailed me and asked why I blocked them and I emailed them back and explained everything as best I possibly could. Also said once they apologize and stop with this custody bull**** then we could perhaps get back onto some good terms and I would allow them around my son again. But until then to not contact me or show up to my home or any of my relatives homes. I am hoping I am doing the right thing I still care about them and wish them well but they do need to get ahold of themselves.


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## Cynthia

You are making some good decisions and taking positive action. Keep moving through hell until you are all the way through. It may take a while, but there is an ending point. You'll know it when one day you realize that you feel good again.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Trying to make the right decisions so I have the best footing for my future and the future of my son. It is rather surprising that no matter how depressed I get and how much I cry missing her I see my son or him cry and it just instantly brightens my day and brings me unspeakable joy. Went and saw my doctor though and he gave me a prescription for Zoloft for the depression started it today not sure if it is working or not probably way too early to tell. If I didn't have my son I probably would do something stupid but that is besides the point as I have my son. Just honestly miss her so incredibly much never felt so empty before, She was my world and my first true love someone who finally understood me and didn't judge me for my past. How do you even find someone like that again? Is that even possible? I don't think it is possible. Second guessing so many decisions honestly, Second guessing even getting away for a few days by myself.


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## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Trying to make the right decisions so I have the best footing for my future and the future of my son. It is rather surprising that no matter how depressed I get and how much I cry missing her I see my son or him cry and it just instantly brightens my day and brings me unspeakable joy. Went and saw my doctor though and he gave me a prescription for Zoloft for the depression started it today not sure if it is working or not probably way too early to tell. If I didn't have my son I probably would do something stupid but that is besides the point as I have my son. Just honestly miss her so incredibly much never felt so empty before, She was my world and my first true love someone who finally understood me and didn't judge me for my past. How do you even find someone like that again? Is that even possible? I don't think it is possible. Second guessing so many decisions honestly, Second guessing even getting away for a few days by myself.


Anti depressants take 10-14 days to have any effect.


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## WonkyNinja

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Not trying to give up any of my rights as a parent nor would I ever want that. But I am just trying to resolve this conflict as easy as I possibly can whilst getting them out of my hair which clearly isn't happening as they just won't lay off but I blocked them and if they need to get ahold of me they can email me. And to the point of I needing to not feel like a burden with asking my family for help when it comes to my son it is truly hard to do so and get past those feelings for the hell that I put them through. And that is why when I got clean and decided to go back to school and get my degree and a nice job I never asked them for help or wanted it I did it all on my own and that is why I always pay when we go out as a family ext because I owe them so much. I know going to the place my fiancee and I went to might not be the best but I feel like it would help me heal and so I booked a stay for this coming weekend and will try and get away for a bit. And I will ask my parents if they are willing to watch my son for a few days. Hoping I don't inconvenience them at all. Older sister called and asked me why I needed to be alone and that I shouldn't be alone and that she knows our parents can be overbearing but they mean the best and all that Jazz. *And then Point blank asked me if I was gonna do anything stupid, and I got really disgusted with that question and annoyed with her instantly that she would ask*. Not gonna do anything Got my boy to take care of now as I am all he has left and I don't plan on ever leaving him.


Without appearing rude may I suggest that you cut your sister some slack here?

I have no experience with addictions myself although I have a close friend who is a recovering alcoholic, she will never say recovered. She has been sober for many years and is generally enjoying life now, however she knows that if she even touches one drink she will go back and probably loose everything she values. However I still get concerned when she gets a depressive attack that she might start drinking and that is nothing against her, it's concern for a friend.

Most of us can't imagine the stress you are under at the moment, and hopefully never will, but it sounds to me that your sister has your best interests, and those of your son, at heart and has some appreciation of the stress you are going through.

Good luck.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Trying to make the right decisions so I have the best footing for my future and the future of my son. It is rather surprising that no matter how depressed I get and how much I cry missing her I see my son or him cry and it just instantly brightens my day and brings me unspeakable joy. Went and saw my doctor though and he gave me a prescription for Zoloft for the depression started it today not sure if it is working or not probably way too early to tell. If I didn't have my son I probably would do something stupid but that is besides the point as I have my son. Just honestly miss her so incredibly much never felt so empty before, She was my world and my first true love someone who finally understood me and didn't judge me for my past. How do you even find someone like that again? Is that even possible? I don't think it is possible. Second guessing so many decisions honestly, Second guessing even getting away for a few days by myself.


 @Justtryingtosurvive

How are you doing? Did you take that weekend break?


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Took about a four day break parents and siblings watched my son and I got away for a bit and spent some time alone. Was able to grieve a little bit and get emotions out that I had honestly been holding back for a good long time. Feel better and I was good and even kept myself on the antidepressants. Also back to work now but not totally 100% but at least getting back to some semblance of normal I suppose. Apparently, her parents dropped by my parents house while I was away wanting to see my son not even sure how they found out he was there with them or knew I was gonna be gone. Oh well, they were sent on their way though and didn't put up a lot of a fight.


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## happysnappy

I'm glad to hear you took that break. One day at a time. 


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Yeah defiantly feeling better at least mentally and emotionally, I suppose the meds are starting to work I hope anyways. But I get home from work and picking up my kid from my parents house and pull up to my subdivisions gate and they are waiting there for me and wondering why the code for the gate doesn't work and why I left my son with my parents for the weekend. God Can't they just give it a rest why can't they just stop pressuring me and being so overbearing. I Explained their presence was unwanted and to please abide by the ruleset I emailed them until they are ready to apologize and move forward. But aside from that, I am feeling pretty good and happy and totally loving being back to work. I hope I keep feeling this well.


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## Thor

They don't respect boundaries, physical or personal, do they? Keep up the good work, you're teaching them their tactics won't work.


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## Kivlor

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Yeah defiantly feeling better at least mentally and emotionally, I suppose the meds are starting to work I hope anyways. But I get home from work and picking up my kid from my parents house and pull up to my subdivisions gate and they are waiting there for me and wondering why the code for the gate doesn't work and why I left my son with my parents for the weekend. God Can't they just give it a rest why can't they just stop pressuring me and being so overbearing. I Explained their presence was unwanted and to please abide by the ruleset I emailed them until they are ready to apologize and move forward. But aside from that, I am feeling pretty good and happy and totally loving being back to work. I hope I keep feeling this well.


Sounds like you handled that well. I can bet that having them waiting for you like that, wanting to know why they couldn't get through the gate to your house had your hackles raised.

Keep carrying on man. I totally support your kid getting to see their grandparents, but not as long as they behave like this. You're doing the right thing and it sounds like you're doing well. :smthumbup:


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## phillybeffandswiss

Sucks man. Minus your family, you are going to need to watch what you say to mutual friends. Sorry, if they are finding out you are going on trips and learning you are leaving your child, which is perfectly fine, someone is running their mouth.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

It is a lot easier to stay calm and react accordingly when your head is kind of in the right space and you aren't clouded by a lot of grief and depression and guilt. But they couldn't get in because I made a request to change the gate code for visitors and explained what was going on and they did so. Really wish they would just comply and not make this more difficult then it needs to me. And yes, I am pretty sure I know which friend or rather so called friend is feeding them this bull****. Just don't know how I am going to deal with it because I still care for her as a friend but she was closer to my fiancee then myself and has voice opposition every step of the way that I have tried dealing with this and even wanted me to let them have custody. I suppose I will just have to cut her out of my life because if I can not trust her then she isn't worth a whole lot as a friend.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Yeah defiantly feeling better at least mentally and emotionally, I suppose the meds are starting to work I hope anyways. But I get home from work and picking up my kid from my parents house and pull up to my subdivisions gate and they are waiting there for me and wondering why the code for the gate doesn't work and why I left my son with my parents for the weekend. God Can't they just give it a rest why can't they just stop pressuring me and being so overbearing. I Explained their presence was unwanted and to please abide by the ruleset I emailed them until they are ready to apologize and move forward. But aside from that, I am feeling pretty good and happy and totally loving being back to work. I hope I keep feeling this well.


I'm glad you took some time to yourself and that you are feeling some better. You needed it.

Being back to work will bring some structure and normalcy into your life. Right now it's day by day.

How did your sort-of-in-laws know that you left your son with your parents and went off for a few days? That seems odd. 

And it's none of their business anyway. Geez


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> It is a lot easier to stay calm and react accordingly when your head is kind of in the right space and you aren't clouded by a lot of grief and depression and guilt. But they couldn't get in because I made a request to change the gate code for visitors and explained what was going on and they did so. Really wish they would just comply and not make this more difficult then it needs to me. And yes, I am pretty sure I know which friend or rather so called friend is feeding them this bull****. Just don't know how I am going to deal with it because I still care for her as a friend but she was closer to my fiancee then myself and has voice opposition every step of the way that I have tried dealing with this and even wanted me to let them have custody. I suppose I will just have to cut her out of my life because if I can not trust her then she isn't worth a whole lot as a friend.


Yea, sounds like you need to end contact with her. If you do, just do it quietly, let the friendship fade. If you talk to her about her telling your sort-of-in-laws your private info, she’s just going to go to them with it. So just stop talking to her.

How often are you talking to her? Does she call you, contact you? It sounds to me like she’s acting like their agent in some fashion.


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## ABHale

Can't even imagine the pain you have gone through and still are, just to let you know your in my prayers. Just remember to breath and love on your son. Things will work out.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Usually, talk to her a few days out of the week and sometimes she calls but usually, we just see each other when we are in a group sitting with our mutual friends. I am just assuming she is the one that told the inlaws but I have no hard evidence so If I just cut her off and I am wrong then I look really bad to our mutual friends. I am unsure what I will do but at least the weekend was uneventful and pretty low-key one with my kid and some family. But the inlaws has been sending me a few emails and asking me to let them see my son and worrying about my state of my mind but mostly asking to see my son. Thinking about letting them see him but with seeing him when he is around me and not alone.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Usually, talk to her a few days out of the week and sometimes she calls but usually, we just see each other when we are in a group sitting with our mutual friends. I am just assuming she is the one that told the inlaws but I have no hard evidence so If I just cut her off and I am wrong then I look really bad to our mutual friends. I am unsure what I will do but at least the weekend was uneventful and pretty low-key one with my kid and some family.


You could always use some tidbit of info to sleuth out if it is her or not. For example, tell her something that sounds juicy that she might tell the sort-of-in-laws. Don’t tell that bit of info to anyone else. Then see if the sort-of-in-laws bring it up.

Or you could just be a bit cautious about what you tell anyone who is not your family. This all will calm down as time goes on.



Justtryingtosurvive said:


> But the inlaws has been sending me a few emails and asking me to let them see my son and worrying about my state of my mind but mostly asking to see my son. Thinking about letting them see him but with seeing him when he is around me and not alone.


Make sure that it’s not just you there. Have a family member with you if/when they come to visit your son. Or you leave and have a couple of your family members handle the visit. Do not be alone with them.


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## ILoveSparkles

Would moving this thread into private be a good idea? That way it's not public and not searchable.


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## Thor

I don't think you should let them see your son yet. They have not changed their tactics nor their mindset yet. I think it is dangerous to let them near him, and at his young age there is no benefit to him to see his grandparents. You have your family to keep an eye on you and watch out for your emotional state, so you don't need her parents to watch over you. Iow, your safety and your son's safety do not improve by having her parents around. They are not deserving of your benevolence at the present time.

This is the second time you've considered caving to their repeated pestering. Caving in will not be a one time deal. They'll see the crack in the door and try to force it fully open.

I'm a grandparent of several, so I am not unsympathetic to their desire to see the grandson. I just think that with all they've said and how they've acted that they pose a potential threat to you and your son's well being. 

I would block them on email, phones, and social media. Have them pass any communications through a third party such as your parents or sister, or a lawyer if you have one. When you are more recovered from your loss and when they have ceased any hint of trying to take custody from you, then it would be time to consider them seeing their grandson.


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## Cynthia

I'm in the camp that I would not let them see him. You are protecting your son. They are doing everything possible to prove to you that they do not respect you as a person or as a parent. If you let them see him, you are showing them that their tactics work. Once you go down that road of caving to the demands of people who are mistreating you, it will only get worse. If you let them see him, that gives them more ammunition to prove that they have a relationship with the child. I wouldn't do that.

Block their number. Send them a cease and desist letter via certified mail with a return receipt requested. Let them know if they continue to harass you that you will take legal action against them. Check with an attorney on how to go about this. They really need to stop.

You have done nothing wrong. Don't let anyone lay guilt on you. They are the guilty parties and you are being mistreated.

You have told them what they have to do to see their grandson and they have not made one step in the right direction. Instead they continue to harass you when you are at your weakest point. They are not healthy people and a relationship with them would not be healthy for your son. Do you want him learning this is how you treat people and that what he wants is the most important thing no matter how someone else is impacted by it? That's what their behavior means.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I haven't felt guilt at all and I confronted my so called friend and she caved and admitted it she was worried and thought I would relapse because of the grief. And My first reaction was honestly to get extremely angry, and after I calmed down and I sat her down and explained that While yes I am grieving I am not relapsing or going to do anything dumb. I don't know how many times I have to explain this to people it is rather frustrating to have to keep going over this with folks. Actually going to meet them at a restaurant with my son and my older sister to test things out and see how they act and react. This isn't me caving or me giving into their demands. Just simply trying to forgive and move on and see if they can do the same as they said they were going to apologize so we shall see how things go. Just gonna take it one day at a time, All I can do I just want to move on from this drama and if they spit in my face and in the face of this good gesture well I will promise you they will never see my son or myself ever again. But other then all of that things are good and I am feeling extremely well.


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## Cynthia

I'm glad you're feeling better.


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## Thor

Don't hesitate to walk away from the meeting immediately if something doesn't feel right.


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## Satya

For many people, it takes time for them to believe something. You don't have to constantly defend yourself, but you should just carry on and do the best you can. They'll come around eventually.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Meeting with them actually went far better than I had hoped or dreamed of it going. They apologized profusely and we had dinner they visited with my son and my older sister was right there. They were on some of their best behavior I have witnessed in a long time, I can't tell if they are just acting and playing me or if they are actually moving on. I suppose we will see over the next few days and weeks ext. But work is going well and meds seem to be working as well. The so called friend though not sure what I will do with that she has been a loyal friend up until that so I just don't know what to do honestly with that.


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## EleGirl

Just give it all time. I’m glad that the meeting went well.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Sorry, I haven't been updating, I was in the hospital and have to have surgery for some post wreck stuff that they had missed. So there was that, But apparently while I was having this done my sister had run to my house to pick up some things for myself and get some things for my son for my mom as they were obviously watching him while all this had to be gone and my fiancee's parents being ones to always spat in the face of me trying to be the nice guy apparently hired a PI and my sister drove up on him attempting to break into my home. So yeah fun times and yes he was arrested I haven't gotten a chance to talk to the inlaws and just kind of in shock they would pull such a move but you guys were correct. Can't try and be nice as they just take it for a sign of weakness.


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## Thor

Heal quickly.

I'm glad your sister caught the guy and had him arrested. Now everyone knows what the score really is. No more pretending by the in-laws to be friends. You know for sure they haven't changed.

If you can prove her parents conspired with the PI for him to break in, I would have them charged too. That's the kind of paper trail which will make it impossible for them in the future to get custody of your child.

Sorry you're going through all of this. Just take it one day at a time, one thing at a time. You have a good support system with your family. I am confident you will get through this ok.


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry, I haven't been updating, I was in the hospital and have to have surgery for some post wreck stuff that they had missed. So there was that, But apparently while I was having this done my sister had run to my house to pick up some things for myself and get some things for my son for my mom as they were obviously watching him while all this had to be gone and my fiancee's parents being ones to always spat in the face of me trying to be the nice guy apparently hired a PI and my sister drove up on him attempting to break into my home. So yeah fun times and yes he was arrested I haven't gotten a chance to talk to the inlaws and just kind of in shock they would pull such a move but you guys were correct. Can't try and be nice as they just take it for a sign of weakness.


Now you have 100% reason to never, ever let these people see you son again. WTH????

What kind of a PI did they hire that this person would try to break into your house? He (or she) should lose their license over this. 

How did they know that you would not be there? Did you tell them that you were going back in for surgery? 

How close to getting into your house was this PI?

Surely you can get a retraining order now against your sorta-in-laws.


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## Mizzbak

Just - I hope that the surgery went well and that you are not in pain right now. 
I found myself trying very hard to think of any good reason for what happened. Because I can't believe that anyone would stupidly risk jeopardising something as precious as contact with a grandson in this way. This really sucks. How did you find out that the man was a PI and working for your fiancee's parents? Finding someone like that must have scared your sister a lot.
Have you contacted your attorney? I agree with Ele that a restraining order seems like an obvious step now.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

They knew cause I told them I wasn't gonna be home for a few days and told them the reason so I had to cancel our dinner and visit with my son. He wasn't very close well at least according to the cops. He was trying to pick my deadbolt but it wasn't working not to mention I do have an alarm system. And when I am feeling better I will be going and filing for a restraining order, I have done my level headed best to be nice and try and work with them and what did they do? Just spit in my face. Enough is frankly enough.


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## EleGirl

What they did to start with was wrong.

But you took the upper road and tried to work things out. 

So then they do this.

At least you know that you went over and above what a lot of people would have. And now they have shown how far they are willing to go.

Did you sister (or you) find out what they told the PI? Did this guy give any justification, beyond earning money, that made him willing to try to break into your house?

What excuse did he give?


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## happysnappy

Wow. I would charge him with breaking and entering. They sound like my crazy narc parents. Best to go no contact 


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## Diana7

I cant understand why he would need to break in.


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## Akfranklin2014

I am so sorry for your loss. Losing someone is never easy. 

I agree with everyone else. Get a good lawyer. Also, do not keep the child from seeing his grand parents. They could use that in court against you. There are definitely certain states that will allow for grandparents to have visitation rights if they feel they're being left out of the child's life. A good lawyer (not a shark) is the best place to go here. Wish you luck and healing as well for your family.


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## naiveonedave

Diana7 said:


> I cant understand why he would need to break in.


speculation: plant drugs and/or look for evidence to make the OP look like an unfit parent.

The actions of the MIL/FIL speak to this in spades.


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## Akfranklin2014

I've found this on a lawyers website from Washington. It was updated in January of 2017 so it is more recent than the Grandparents of Washington State website. 

http://pnwfamilylaw.com/grandparents-visitation-rights-grandchildren/




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## phillybeffandswiss

Yes and this is why we told you to be careful. NEVER EVER believe people having less money than you means they won't try to get into your business. They don't like you and you knew this from the beginning. As they say, in bad situations, when someone tells you something, believe them. The buffer to keep them in check is gone. They do not need to be nice to you ever again. No, not all grandparents are like this, but you have to ignore the words of people with truly bad parents and good dealings with their grand kids. Only seriously messed up people screw up an arrangement where they have unfettered access to the home and child. Normal people do not make threats to take a child away and hire a lawyer. Even in grief, this is not a go to response with no provocation.

Go get a restraining order TODAY.


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## ILoveSparkles

That's crazy!! How did the PI get past your gate? I know you said that you changed the code and that's why the grandparents couldn't access your house. Did the PI scale the fence or something?

You need to get a restraining order / have them arrested like others have mentioned. They paid for someone to break into a home. NEVER respond or contact these people again.

If your fiancee knew what her parents are doing, I'm sure she'd be devastated.


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## Tatsuhiko

The gloves are off. Hire an attorney. Perhaps you have grounds for a civil suit against them--or criminal charges, considering that they conspired to break into your home. Don't focus on prosecuting the PI--he's just a pawn. Instead, have your lawyer encourage the PI to roll over on the grandparents to save his own skin.


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## arbitrator

*If they indeed orchestrated all of this, then "Granny and Grandpa" need to go to jail! And for a very long time!

Get that restraining order immediately! And have your family attorney file a court order to let them only have strict supervised visitation!*


----------



## MsManners

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Sorry if this isn't the place or anything like that just at the end of my rope right now and I need some help. My fiancee and I were togeather for a few years and we had an oops moment and she gave birth to our son who is 8 months old. Well we were on our way to pick our son up from my parents house after getting back in town from vacation well on our way to my parents house we were hit by a drunk driver and my fiancee was killed and I am still recovering from the wreck. This was about three months ago I haven't even had time to grieve yet alone take care of myself and get back to 100% and now her parents have approached me trying to gain custody of my son the only thing that connects me to her. I don't understand why they think this is remotely ok or appropriate and when they came over a few days asking for this I am not going to lie I got incredibly angry and lost it on them. I mean can they really take my kid from me? I can't lose my son he is the only reason I am still breathing right now honestly or even still functioning as well as I am. I don't know what to do, I don't know if I have the strength to fight this I shouldn't have to fight this. I mean I already blame myself enough and I know they blame me as well and If I could do it all over again I would gladly switch places with her I would so very much trade places with her if I could. Trying my best to take care of my son I have been going to physical therapy for my wreck injuries been going beyond what the doctors have asked of me to try and get better. But it isn't enough for her parents and I don't understand why. What do I do?


Hire a lawyer.....TODAY


----------



## EleGirl

@Justtryingtosurvive

Just checking in to see how you are doing.


----------



## IamSomebody

Diana7 said:


> I cant understand why he would need to break in.


To plant "evidence" that the OP was using hard core drugs so the ILs could file to get custody.

IamSomebody


----------



## Justtryingtosurvive

EleGirl said:


> @Justtryingtosurvive
> 
> Just checking in to see how you are doing.


I appologize for going inactive for so long. I got bogged down with my legal fight and some really severe depression and I almost slipped up. So I had a restraining order for the past few months after the judge granted it based on all the evidence my lawyer presented. And after that, I tried to move forward with my life but I got really depressed from losing my fiancee and because I had finally won my fight and was finally able to chill a bit and get into a grove with myself and my son I just, It was pretty bad I suppose. I almost relapsed from being clean I was so very close and then my son started crying from another room and I realized he was so much more worth it then falling back into that life. And besides, that not much has happened at least not that I have noticed out of the parents. Between work and my son I have tried to keep myself busy.


----------



## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I appologize for going inactive for so long. I got bogged down with my legal fight and some really severe depression and I almost slipped up. So I had a restraining order for the past few months after the judge granted it based on all the evidence my lawyer presented. And after that, I tried to move forward with my life but I got really depressed from losing my fiancee and because I had finally won my fight and was finally able to chill a bit and get into a grove with myself and my son I just, It was pretty bad I suppose. I almost relapsed from being clean I was so very close and then my son started crying from another room and I realized he was so much more worth it then falling back into that life. And besides, that not much has happened at least not that I have noticed out of the parents. Between work and my son I have tried to keep myself busy.


Thank you for the update. I hope you are able to learn some tools to find a state of peace. Do you have a therapist to guide you?

To clarify it sounds like you have a restraining order against your son's maternal grandparents, so they cannot see him or you. Is that correct?

You have won full custody and they are permanently out of the picture. Is that correct?


----------



## ABHale

Stay strong and stay the course.


----------



## Justtryingtosurvive

CynthiaDe said:


> Thank you for the update. I hope you are able to learn some tools to find a state of peace. Do you have a therapist to guide you?
> 
> To clarify it sounds like you have a restraining order against your son's maternal grandparents, so they cannot see him or you. Is that correct?
> 
> You have won full custody and they are permanently out of the picture. Is that correct?


Yes, I have a therapist that I am working with and she has been really great. Started looking for one after I almost relapsed, And yes they cannot see him or myself and I have full custody of my son and so far they haven't breached the restraining order. Also my parents have been playing a big part in my life and helping out with my son so he is always around people that love him a lot.


----------



## Mizzbak

Just, 

They were the ones that damaged the relationship with you (and therefore their grandchild). Probably irretrievably. I think that that is incredibly sad, but they are reaping what they sowed. You did what you needed to do to protect your family and you should be supported and respected for that. I am really glad that your parents can be there for you. 

The fact that you were able to be strong enough to get help when you needed it is a fantastic indication of how much of an amazing father you are being and going to be. Focus on your needs and your son's needs ... and the rest of your life will become what that commitment deserves. 

Thank you for the update - I have thought about you and your son and it is good to hear that, although things have been very tough, you are slowly finding your way through. 

Thoughts with you and strength to you.


----------



## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Yes, I have a therapist that I am working with and she has been really great. Started looking for one after I almost relapsed, And yes they cannot see him or myself and I have full custody of my son and so far they haven't breached the restraining order. Also my parents have been playing a big part in my life and helping out with my son so he is always around people that love him a lot.


You pressed through an extremely difficult situation while you were in the midst of horrible grief. You didn't relapse. You held firm. Temptation is not the same as giving into temptation. It shows great strength to stand up and do the right thing when under extreme pressure to do otherwise. Don't sell yourself short. You are doing a fantastic job. Your fiancee would be proud of you. You are showing yourself to be a man of honor and integrity.


----------



## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I appologize for going inactive for so long. I got bogged down with my legal fight and some really severe depression and I almost slipped up. So I had a restraining order for the past few months after the judge granted it based on all the evidence my lawyer presented. And after that, I tried to move forward with my life but I got really depressed from losing my fiancee and because I had finally won my fight and was finally able to chill a bit and get into a grove with myself and my son I just, It was pretty bad I suppose. I almost relapsed from being clean I was so very close and then my son started crying from another room and I realized he was so much more worth it then falling back into that life. And besides, that not much has happened at least not that I have noticed out of the parents. Between work and my son I have tried to keep myself busy.


Thanks for giving us an update. 

You've been through some very tough things and have proven that you are stronger than you ever thought. 

Love your son. Keep your focus on him.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Thanks for the update and glad you listened to your gut. Almost slipped means you did learn from your new sobriety. You got help when it would have been easier to slip back into bad habits. Also, you wanted advice and then had to do things on your own. No apologies are necessary.

Well done.


----------



## Justtryingtosurvive

Thank you all for all the help and advice, I was really desperate and you all were amazing to me. Family and even my therapist keep bringing up maybe I should try dating again and it is really tough to even think about something like that. I lost the women I loved more than anything and people think dating would somehow help me and I just don't see it. Plus I really feel like I would be using that girl and I don't want a rebound relationship and then she gets attached to me and I hurt her by ending things.


----------



## Adelais

Just take it one day at a time. If you meet someone that is interesting to you, then consider dating. If you are not lonely, or wanting female companionship why force it?

It is not as if you are all alone, you have your entire extended family that you see regularly, and who love you, and you love.

Give it a few more months if you need to. Eventually you will feel like you might have some room in your heart for someone else.

I'm glad your PIL are leaving you alone. They forced you to take action against them, due to their own controlling actions. They got scared and acted the bully, and they lost.

Like Cynthia said being tempted, or wanting to do something is not the same as doing it. The fact that you came close, and then squashed it says a lot about you! You are an honorable and strong man and father.

Are you working again? Has your physical pain diminished somewhat? I hope so.


----------



## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Thank you all for all the help and advice, I was really desperate and you all were amazing to me. Family and even my therapist keep bringing up maybe I should try dating again and it is really tough to even think about something like that. I lost the women I loved more than anything and people think dating would somehow help me and I just don't see it. Plus I really feel like I would be using that girl and I don't want a rebound relationship and then she gets attached to me and I hurt her by ending things.


You are still grieving. It is perfectly normal for you to not want to date. Your concern about hurting a woman due to your grief stricken condition is thoughtful and considerate. You seem like a softhearted, loving man. 

Give yourself time. Let yourself heal.

It's okay to be sad for a while. You lost your best friend, lover, and life partner to suddenly become a single dad. That's a lot to deal with. Top that off with hostile grandparents and it's a trauma in the first degree.

As far as I can tell from what you've written, you are doing great. You are moving in a forward direction and meeting your responsibilities as well as caring for your son and connecting with your family. Despite the difficultly you are doing a very good job of it. Keep up the good work.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I don't know If I would call myself good but thanks. And the pain I have gone through and even caused others with my past just trying not to cause anyone else pain. Trying to do what is right for everyone and still maintain myself hasn't been the easiest road to walk. I have been back to work for a little while now and I am mostly healed but not touched any hard painkillers with a twenty-foot pole. It honestly is pretty hard not to feel guilty at feeling any kind of joy ya know? Son gives me a lot of joy and then I feel guilty for it because I remember someone isn't here to experience our son growing up and the milestones that are surely to come.


----------



## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I don't know If I would call myself good but thanks. And the pain I have gone through and even caused others with my past just trying not to cause anyone else pain. Trying to do what is right for everyone and still maintain myself hasn't been the easiest road to walk. I have been back to work for a little while now and I am mostly healed but not touched any hard painkillers with a twenty-foot pole. It honestly is pretty hard not to feel guilty at feeling any kind of joy ya know? Son gives me a lot of joy and then I feel guilty for it because I remember someone isn't here to experience our son growing up and the milestones that are surely to come.


You need to think about your son. He needs for you to feel the joy of having him in your life. Think of that joy as a gift to your fiancé. After all if you did not find you in him, it would be huge disrespect of her, right?

It's clearly far too early for you to date. I'm glad that you realize that. The normal period of grieving is at least a year or two. There is a reason for this...that's how long it takes the human brain to process such a loss. Take your time. One day you will wake up and be ready to move on. It's clearly far to early for you.

Years ago I lost twins at birth. I had a horrible time with the that loss. About 6 months later I took a weekend trip with one of my sisters as I thought it would help me. While on that trip, I told my sister how much I was still hurting from the loss. she just looked at me and said, "Aren't you over that yet?" I won't list all the other stupid things people said to me... 

My point? Others cannot feel your pain. They are not in your head. They have no idea what you are going through. They themselves had not gone through it. So they throw out silly stuff like suggesting that you start dating. It's their attempt to help because they feel inadequate for not being able to fix things for you. 

Grieving is a process and the only way to get through it is to walk right through the middle of it and let it bombard you. When you do that, you will come out the other end whole again. And you will a very different person than you were when this all started. You have complete control over who you are becoming.


----------



## Chuck71

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I don't know If I would call myself good but thanks. And the pain I have gone through and even caused others with my past just trying not to cause anyone else pain. Trying to do what is right for everyone and still maintain myself hasn't been the easiest road to walk. I have been back to work for a little while now and I am mostly healed but not touched any hard painkillers with a twenty-foot pole. It honestly is pretty hard not to feel guilty at feeling any kind of joy ya know? Son gives me a lot of joy and then I feel guilty for it because I remember someone isn't here to experience our son growing up and the milestones that are surely to come.


I can sympathize with your loss...... she was not my W but.... would have been. My loss was 30 years

ago. Still bothers me to this day. Be thankful you have family to help you. Being a single dad

is super tough..... but you have some qualified gals in your family to step up.

Her parents never liked you.... ate their version of a sheet sandwich after your W told them

to accept you or.... ? off. They did not give you any time to grieve.... and immediately went for

custody of the child. To a point... they get a pass. But they exceeded that point multiple times.

The PI should be the deal breaker. Maybe re-visit this in five years. You need time to heal

from your loss.... the last thing you need is Boris and Natasha trying to put an obstacle in your

path to recovery. The female I mentioned.... she was killed by a drunk driver.... in 1990.

Just before you were born....we hadn't seen each other in a long time....this was pre-net and free

long distance calls. She was coming up to surprise me...... we had talked on the phone....

We met in 1987.... I wrote a book about it and it extended into three.

So.... I can relate with your loss..... although we did not have children.... we were still children ourselves.

Stay strong..... and do not let people brow beat you for your past transgressions.......

You are clean..... you may "always be an addict" aka what you are told in NA... but that is a defeatist 

attitude. The person you were..... is gone. Until you return to that lifestyle, you should not be 

labeled as one. You had every reason to return to it after what happened to you.... and you didn't.

Well... you danced with it but you didn't sleep with it. That says a lot. No I am not a recovering

or past addict.... but I know way too many who are.


----------



## frusdil

OP so glad you updated us!! You have a good head on your shoulders - being tempted is NOT the same as slipping up. You're human...and a darn strong one at that. You should feel incredibly proud of yourself, that in itself is a huge achievement, not to mention surviving what you've been through this year. 

I really hope you'll stick around here, you have a lot to offer - down the track, I know you're still doing it tough right now, and we're here to help when you need us, but later on you will be able to offer someone else invaluable support when they need it.

If you don't feel ready to date yet (I personally think it's too soon too), then don't. Focus on your son, and being the best dad you can be...you're off to a rocking start my friend. 

All the best xx


----------



## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Thank you all for all the help and advice, I was really desperate and you all were amazing to me. Family and even my therapist keep bringing up maybe I should try dating again and it is really tough to even think about something like that. I lost the women I loved more than anything and people think dating would somehow help me and I just don't see it. Plus I really feel like I would be using that girl and I don't want a rebound relationship and then she gets attached to me and I hurt her by ending things.


I dont know why people think its helpful to push those who have so recently lost a loved one into dating again. I agree with you, its far far too soon to be thinking of another woman. It may be many years before you feel ready.


----------



## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I don't know If I would call myself good but thanks. And the pain I have gone through and even caused others with my past just trying not to cause anyone else pain. Trying to do what is right for everyone and still maintain myself hasn't been the easiest road to walk. I have been back to work for a little while now and I am mostly healed but not touched any hard painkillers with a twenty-foot pole. It honestly is pretty hard not to feel guilty at feeling any kind of joy ya know? Son gives me a lot of joy and then I feel guilty for it because I remember someone isn't here to experience our son growing up and the milestones that are surely to come.


What you are feeling is false guilt, because you have nothing to be guilty about. Your son needs to know that he brings you joy. Don't suppress it or that is unhealthy for you and your son. Your fiancee would want you to experience joy. When you do, remember her and think of how she would love to share that joy with you. I'm sure she wouldn't want you to suffer needlessly. She loved you, which means she wanted you to be happy. She wouldn't want you to live in misery.

My maternal grandparents both died the same year. It was a huge loss for our family as we spent a lot of time with them. They lived almost 4 hours drive from us, so when we spent time with them it always included at least one overnight. We spent most of our vacations at their house. I have a ton of happy memories from my childhood through my late 30's with them. We loved each other a lot.

The year my grandparents died was difficult, but we decided to spend that summer having as much fun as possible in memory of all the wonderful times we had with them. When we were out having fun, we spoke of them often and remember fun things we had done with them over the span of our lifetimes. It was a wonderful tribute to them and it was healing. I recommend you try something like this as a tribute to the love of your life. She would want you to live to the fullest to honor her memory.


----------



## Chuck71

Diana7 said:


> I dont know why people think its helpful to push those who have so recently lost a loved one into dating again. I agree with you, its far far too soon to be thinking of another woman. It may be many years before you feel ready.


You are a grandparent and you triggered..... Simple as that

But his grandparents threatened him numerous times....

What's he supposed to do..... lay down and give up? Bet they'd love that...


----------



## Justtryingtosurvive

Parents surprised me tonight they are taking myself and my son and everyone on a Disney cruise out of Orlando for Christmas. I thought they were messing with me at first but after a bit, they finally just showed me the booking. Had to ask them why and they said to cheer me up or at least try to. I don't think they should be doing this or even spending a dime on me or my son I should be the one to do it and spoil everyone else. I don't like when they spend money on me because of the hell I put them through Ugh. And it is hard not to suppress joy because every time I do feel it I feel guilty and start remembering her and the times we had together. But I still show my son my happiness with him and try to parent him the best I can while also spoiling him rotten probably not the best but I feel like I should. Lately, I keep having really awful nightmares of the wreck. And I don't know why I keep having them.


----------



## Diana7

Chuck71 said:


> You are a grandparent and you triggered..... Simple as that
> 
> But his grandparents threatened him numerous times....
> 
> What's he supposed to do..... lay down and give up? Bet they'd love that...


Sorry what has that got to do with what I said? I was talking about his family and his counsellor pushing him into dating again.


----------



## Diana7

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Parents surprised me tonight they are taking myself and my son and everyone on a Disney cruise out of Orlando for Christmas. I thought they were messing with me at first but after a bit, they finally just showed me the booking. Had to ask them why and they said to cheer me up or at least try to. I don't think they should be doing this or even spending a dime on me or my son I should be the one to do it and spoil everyone else. I don't like when they spend money on me because of the hell I put them through Ugh. And it is hard not to suppress joy because every time I do feel it I feel guilty and start remembering her and the times we had together. But I still show my son my happiness with him and try to parent him the best I can while also spoiling him rotten probably not the best but I feel like I should. Lately, I keep having really awful nightmares of the wreck. And I don't know why I keep having them.


Try not to spoil him as that wont do him any good. Keep healthy boundaries and rules, it makes children feel secure.


----------



## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Parents surprised me tonight they are taking myself and my son and everyone on a Disney cruise out of Orlando for Christmas. I thought they were messing with me at first but after a bit, they finally just showed me the booking. Had to ask them why and they said to cheer me up or at least try to. I don't think they should be doing this or even spending a dime on me or my son I should be the one to do it and spoil everyone else. I don't like when they spend money on me because of the hell I put them through Ugh. And it is hard not to suppress joy because every time I do feel it I feel guilty and start remembering her and the times we had together. But I still show my son my happiness with him and try to parent him the best I can while also spoiling him rotten probably not the best but I feel like I should. Lately, I keep having really awful nightmares of the wreck. And I don't know why I keep having them.


Good for your parents, go and enjoy it. You need to lighten up for your son if not for yourself. As down as you are, it has to be hard on him. Your son needs this.


----------



## Chuck71

Diana7 said:


> Sorry what has that got to do with what I said? I was talking about his family and his counsellor pushing him into dating again.


It has everything to do with it.......


----------



## Chuck71

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Parents surprised me tonight they are taking myself and my son and everyone on a Disney cruise out of Orlando for Christmas. I thought they were messing with me at first but after a bit, they finally just showed me the booking. Had to ask them why and they said to cheer me up or at least try to. I don't think they should be doing this or even spending a dime on me or my son I should be the one to do it and spoil everyone else. I don't like when they spend money on me because of the hell I put them through Ugh. And it is hard not to suppress joy because every time I do feel it I feel guilty and start remembering her and the times we had together. But I still show my son my happiness with him and try to parent him the best I can while also spoiling him rotten probably not the best but I feel like I should. Lately, I keep having really awful nightmares of the wreck. And I don't know why I keep having them.


Not spoiling at all..... just your family getting together after a HARD year. Cruises aren't expensive

if you catch a good deal certain times of the year. If I had $1 for every pic your parents will take

of your son.... I'd be making an offer to buy the Pittsburgh Pirates.


----------



## Diana7

Chuck71 said:


> It has everything to do with it.......


. I

He said that his family and his counsellor were pressuring him into dating again.He said he didn't feel ready and that it was too soon, and I agreed with him. How is that to do with what you said?


----------



## Chuck71

And I liked where you stated that...... now.... about the other....


----------



## alexm

Chuck71 said:


> Not spoiling at all..... just your family getting together after a HARD year. Cruises aren't expensive
> 
> if you catch a good deal certain times of the year. If I had $1 for every pic your parents will take
> 
> of your son.... I'd be making an offer to buy the Pittsburgh Pirates.


Disney cruises are!

Have to remember - when others do things like this, the joy and happiness THEY get out of it is what's important to them. As a giver myself, I very much enjoy things like this. It's for the parents, just as much as it is for OP and the kids.

Plus, it's time they can all spend together, which is the point.

I'm all for modesty, but when I give something to someone else, it's for a reason - I want them to be happy. That makes ME happy, and it's the entire point behind giving. Whether it's free, or it costs money - the point behind it is always the same.


----------



## naiveonedave

good luck OP, I have been pulling for you in this mess!


----------



## MattMatt

Chuck71 said:


> It has everything to do with it.......


I disagree. It has very little to do with it. Nothing, in fact.

A grieving widow or widower should not date until they feel up to it.

Pressuring someone to date when they still have a badly and recently broken heart is not helpful.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> I disagree. It has very little to do with it. Nothing, in fact.
> 
> A grieving widow or widower should not date until they feel up to it.
> 
> Pressuring someone to date when they still have a badly and recently broken heart is not helpful.


Actually Matt..... that was intended for Diane. And the way she continually brow beat the OP.

Scroll up a bit....


----------



## MattMatt

Chuck71 said:


> Actually Matt..... that was intended for Diane. And the way she continually brow beat the OP.
> 
> Scroll up a bit....


I know who it was intended for.

All Diane did was point out that if he felt it was too early to date, then he shouldn't date.

She was not brow beating him, she was making a sympathetic point.


----------



## Chuck71

alexm said:


> Disney cruises are!
> 
> Have to remember - when others do things like this, the joy and happiness THEY get out of it is what's important to them. As a giver myself, I very much enjoy things like this. It's for the parents, just as much as it is for OP and the kids.
> 
> Plus, it's time they can all spend together, which is the point.
> 
> I'm all for modesty, but when I give something to someone else, it's for a reason - I want them to be happy. That makes ME happy, and it's the entire point behind giving. Whether it's free, or it costs money - the point behind it is always the same.


*scratcheshead* Pretty much what I said....


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> I know who it was intended for.
> 
> All Diane did was point out that if he felt it was too early to date, then he shouldn't date.
> 
> She was not brow beating him, she was making a sympathetic point.


Matt..... Matt..... Matt..... did you see I liked that comment? Usually that means one strongly agrees.....


----------



## Barth

EleGirl said:


> Unless they can prove that you are a danger to your child, no they cannot take your child away from you.


The family court has "broad discretion" and can take your children away from you, based on no more evidence than innuendo.

You are wise to be cautions.


----------



## alexm

Chuck71 said:


> *scratcheshead* Pretty much what I said....


Well I'm clearly not needed here, then!

:grin2:


----------



## MattMatt

Chuck71 said:


> Matt..... Matt..... Matt..... did you see I liked that comment? Usually that means one strongly agrees.....


Yes. But your comment gave an _entirely_ different message.

And what we say is of much more importance than a tick.


----------



## Justtryingtosurvive

I am not sure how this got derailed so quickly, But while I appreciate people looking out for me it honestly isn't necessary. I remember Diana And while I honestly never agreed with her point of view because of the Grandparents I kind of understood where she was coming from and I suppose I could appreciate it a bit. Anyway's This girl at work who knows what I went through has been really overly nice to me as of late and even flirting with me. And I am worried I am just being overly sensitive because I finally just snapped on her today and told her while I am flattered she needed to stop because I am not in a position to offer her anything and that it would be foolish of me to pursue any kind of a relationship. And I could tell it hurt her and I don't understand that, But had another of my nightmares last night so that was awesome (That was dripping with sarcasm btw). But even as upset as those make me I just have to get up and go look at my sleeping son and it honestly calms me a lot.


----------



## Adelais

It sounds like the girl at work is immature, insensitive or both. Don't worry about snapping at her. She'll get over it. Maybe the incident will help her grow up a bit.

Dreams about our children are really horrible. Stress can trigger bad dreams. Glad that getting up and looking at him helped calm you down.

Hey! I hope you have a blast on the vacation with your family! They sound like wonderful people. You are blessed to have them.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Parents surprised me tonight they are taking myself and my son and everyone on a Disney cruise out of Orlando for Christmas. I thought they were messing with me at first but after a bit, they finally just showed me the booking. Had to ask them why and they said to cheer me up or at least try to. I don't think they should be doing this or even spending a dime on me or my son I should be the one to do it and spoil everyone else. I don't like when they spend money on me because of the hell I put them through Ugh. And it is hard not to suppress joy because every time I do feel it I feel guilty and start remembering her and the times we had together. But I still show my son my happiness with him and try to parent him the best I can while also spoiling him rotten probably not the best but I feel like I should. Lately, I keep having really awful nightmares of the wreck. And I don't know why I keep having them.


Not your money, not your choice. I may get a ban, but you are being highly ignorant with this thinking. You have a GREAT support system, but you are extremely determined to piss it away. You were snapping at family who saw the warning signs and you came back and admitted you almost slipped up. You do understand your family was right and saw the early warning signs? Talk to your counselor about this "woe is me" and "It should be me" behavior. Also, ask the counselor about survivors guilt. Things are getting better and you are going on a cruise so, the nightmares may be directly tied to your survival and the good things happening to you.

My harshness may be because I recently found out my dad is exhibiting signs of dementia. You need to appreciate what you still have because you can't, in the same way, when it is gone.


----------



## Cynthia

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Anyway's This girl at work who knows what I went through has been really overly nice to me as of late and even flirting with me. And I am worried I am just being overly sensitive because I finally just snapped on her today and told her while I am flattered she needed to stop because I am not in a position to offer her anything and that it would be foolish of me to pursue any kind of a relationship. And I could tell it hurt her and I don't understand that, But had another of my nightmares last night so that was awesome (That was dripping with sarcasm btw). But even as upset as those make me I just have to get up and go look at my sleeping son and it honestly calms me a lot.


She's an adult. She'll be fine. It's not like you called her names or told her she's ugly. You told her that you are not interested in a relationship; maybe a bit rough around the edges in snapping at her, but your message was reasonable and not a personal attack on her. You are still raw, it's bound to happen from time to time.

I'm sorry you are still having nightmares. That could go on for a while. It is part of how you process what's happened. I'm glad you take comfort in your son.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

Yeah I know she is an adult but I was pretty angry with her. And I don't tend to get that angry very often just feel bad that I snapped at her like that it was loud enough for the entire office to hear it. Ugh, Just feel embarrassed for the entire situation and now I feel bad for doing it. And Yes I have a great support system but I don't think I am trying to piss anything away I put my family through hell and don't want gifts or financial assistance from them because I already have taken a lot. I don't think that means I am trying to throw my support system away just trying to do things on my own.


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## Cynthia

You can apologize to the woman for overreacting. 
You realize that you overreacted and this is something you can work on.

Have you ever read the story of The Prodigal Son? Your family is thrilled that you are back. Here's the story in case you don't know it:

Luke 15:11-32 NAS
11 To illustrate the point further, Jesus told them this story: “A man had two sons. 12 The younger son told his father, ‘I want my share of your estate now before you die.’ So his father agreed to divide his wealth between his sons. 13 “A few days later this younger son packed all his belongings and moved to a distant land, and there he wasted all his money in wild living.

14 About the time his money ran out, a great famine swept over the land, and he began to starve. 15 He persuaded a local farmer to hire him, and the man sent him into his fields to feed the pigs. 16 The young man became so hungry that even the pods he was feeding the pigs looked good to him. But no one gave him anything.

17 “When he finally came to his senses, he said to himself, ‘At home even the hired servants have food enough to spare, and here I am dying of hunger! 18 I will go home to my father and say, “Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, 19 and I am no longer worthy of being called your son. Please take me on as a hired servant.”’

20 “So he returned home to his father. And while he was still a long way off, his father saw him coming. Filled with love and compassion, he ran to his son, embraced him, and kissed him. 21 His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, and I am no longer worthy of being called your son. ’

22 “But his father said to the servants, ‘Quick! Bring the finest robe in the house and put it on him. Get a ring for his finger and sandals for his feet. 23 And kill the calf we have been fattening. We must celebrate with a feast, 24 for this son of mine was dead and has now returned to life. He was lost, but now he is found.’ So the party began.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the fields working. When he returned home, he heard music and dancing in the house, 26 and he asked one of the servants what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother is back,’ he was told, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf. We are celebrating because of his safe return.’ 

28 “The older brother was angry and wouldn’t go in. His father came out and begged him, 29 but he replied, ‘All these years I’ve slaved for you and never once refused to do a single thing you told me to. And in all that time you never gave me even one young goat for a feast with my friends. 30 Yet when this son of yours comes back after squandering your money on prostitutes, you celebrate by killing the fattened calf!’ 31 “His father said to him, ‘Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours. 32 We had to celebrate this happy day. For your brother was dead and has come back to life! He was lost, but now he is found!’”


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## EleGirl

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> Yeah I know she is an adult but I was pretty angry with her. And I don't tend to get that angry very often just feel bad that I snapped at her like that it was loud enough for the entire office to hear it. Ugh, Just feel embarrassed for the entire situation and now I feel bad for doing it. And Yes I have a great support system but I don't think I am trying to piss anything away I put my family through hell and don't want gifts or financial assistance from them because I already have taken a lot. I don't think that means I am trying to throw my support system away just trying to do things on my own.


I agree with Cynthia, you can apologize to the woman.. so that the entire office can hear it. 

She was not out of line so you really aught to do that. Just tell her that you are still too raw and over reacted out of frustration with yourself.


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## Satya

Apologize to her, but reiterate that you have a lot on your plate right now, you appreciate her care, and that you need to work out some things on your own, alone. If she is mature, she will understand this.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I suppose I am to blame because when I got to work this morning things were really awkward around the office and this girl called in sick so I didn't get the opportunity to apologize. I honestly feel really rough about this and now it is probably eating at me more then It should I think. God I can't do anything right here I mean I try and do the right thing and it completely blows up into my face. Awesome sauce, But aside from all of that madness I started looking for an in-home nanny for my son so My parents don't have to keep watching him while I am at work. I know they enjoy it but they need their free time as much as anyone. They have said they don't mind but I just really wanna be responsible and not have to keep leaning into my parents and treating them like a daycare service. Saw my therapist today as well and she told me that the nightmares will probably keep happening for awhile which is a bummer.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Justtryingtosurvive said:


> I suppose I am to blame because when I got to work this morning things were really awkward around the office and this girl called in sick so I didn't get the opportunity to apologize. I honestly feel really rough about this and now it is probably eating at me more then It should I think. God I can't do anything right here I mean I try and do the right thing and it completely blows up into my face. Awesome sauce, But aside from all of that madness I started looking for an in-home nanny for my son so My parents don't have to keep watching him while I am at work. I know they enjoy it but they need their free time as much as anyone. They have said they don't mind but I just really wanna be responsible and not have to keep leaning into my parents and treating them like a daycare service. Saw my therapist today as well and she told me that the nightmares will probably keep happening for awhile which is a bummer.


Stop it. Just stop it. If I were your friend and saw this garbage I'd be right up in your face asking you "why do you insist on being this silly?".
Quit trying to prove you are an Alpha Man, it is BS. Be a balanced man. A strong man knows when he need help, a weak man pushes it way in the name of "Alpha responsibility." When your parents get tired they will tell you. You are having nightmares and outbursts at work. This is not the time to be worrying about who is spending too much time with your son and who is spoiling whom. Fix yourself.


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## Justtryingtosurvive

I don't think it has anything to do with being an alpha male just more so trying to do things myself, I do not see why that is such a big issue for you that you have taken with me? But that girl was at work today and I approached her and apologized to her and said if she wants to be friends that is fine but I am not in a place to offer her anything other then Friendship currently. She took is far better then I thought she would and was alright with being friends.


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