# Venting, wife and sex problems, I've given up



## FirePower

Hi, I'm a new member.

And that is all I have to say about that, today.


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## Kaykris

It honestly sounds like your guys spark in the relationship has gone out.

Men obviously have a stronger sex drive (most of the time), you see something and it turns you on. Women have to THINK, we have to be mentally turned on to become aroused or even think about sex.

Maybe there is an underlying problem that you guys have NOT concluded and it's eating away at your relationship and in turn turning her off?

It's hard if she's not going to communicate with you though. Perhaps you could try a candle lit dinner and send the kid off and try to talk and COMPROMISE on whatever the problem may be.

Regarding sex, she has to open up for you to fix it.


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## Screenp2

3-4 times a week and you're complaining.. :scratchhead:

Read about other peoples lives.. no sex in weeks, months and years for some. I'd say you don't have it so bad. Keep doing what you're doing now and you'll be just like the rest of us in the lucky to have it twice a year club. 

My wife has a low drive, I'm off the charts and we have sex maybe every 3-6 MONTHS.. I can't begin to express my sexual frustrations over this and trying to cue my wife into my needs as a male via me doing all the talking about how I need sex blah blah blah.. it only pissed her off and made her think I was a whiny child who only wants sex. 

My wife won't initiate.. it's been bugging me for 8 years now, about the time she got her nursing job where she has to wait hand and foot on some of the most entitled prego beotches you ever met. Spend a day with them and you won't want to start anything either, you've spent the entire day giving.. you need a re-fill. My initiating and tending to her needs re-fills those needs she' been giving away. I have to double give.. it's really hard for me as I'm reward based and wasn't getting my carrot. 

She's from latin/latino descent, the men are macho and the women don't initiate. It's part of her nature to want to be woo'ed and made to feel wanted. Don't do that or force her to start things and she shuts off, can't be bothered as it's the absolute last thing she want's to do. Meet her needs in a manly way w/out being forceful gets her motor running. It's the stuff people have been telling me my marriage needed, be a man to your wife and she'll be the women you always wanted. Theirs some truth to that.. lots actually. It was, and getting her to keep talking about her needs and what makes her motor run was/is the hard part. 

It would have been nice if she told me that ohh.. 5 years ago and not this past weekend.. before I went off on a path that left me feeling left out and unwanted all these years. I thought she didn't want me all this time, thought I was a loser and all kinds of depression laden emotions. Turns out all I have to do is keep up the loving gestures, make her feel sexy and generally be a man to her needs.. not some whiny what about me child that only turned her off. 

It's been said before and now I'm saying it.. man up bro!


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## Kaykris

Screenp2 said:


> 3-4 times a week and you're complaining.. :scratchhead:
> 
> Read about other peoples lives.. no sex in weeks, months and years for some. I'd say you don't have it so bad. Keep doing what you're doing now and you'll be just like the rest of us in the lucky to have it twice a year club.
> 
> My wife has a low drive, I'm off the charts and we have sex maybe every 3-6 MONTHS..
> 
> My wife won't initiate.. it's been bugging me for 8 years now, about the time she got her nursing job where she has to wait hand and foot on some of the most entitled prego beotches you ever met. Spend a day with them and you won't want to start anything either, you've spent the entire day giving.. you need a re-fill. My initiating and tending to her needs re-fills those needs she' been giving away.
> 
> She's from latin/latino descent, the men are macho and the women don't initiate. It's part of her nature to want to be woo'ed and made to feel wanted. Don't do that or force her to start things and she shuts off, can't be bothered as it's the absolute last thing she want's to do. Meet her needs in a manly way w/out being forceful gets her motor running. It's the stuff people have been telling me my marriage needed, be a man to your wife and she'll be the women you always wanted. Theirs some truth to that.. lots actually. It was, and getting her to keep talking about her needs and what makes her motor run was/is the hard part.
> 
> It would have been nice if she told me that ohh.. 5 years ago and not this past weekend.. before I went off on a path that left me feeling left out and unwanted all these years. I thought she didn't want me all this time, thought I was a loser and all kinds of depression laden emotions. Turns out all I have to do is keep up the loving gestures, make her feel sexy and generally be a man to her needs.. not some whiny what about me child that only turned her off.
> 
> It's been said before and now I'm saying it.. man up bro!


Exactly! Get the sparks going! Make her feel like a beautiful, gorgeous, wonderful woman.


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## Catherine602

I look at this as a positive. You can't talk or beg her into a better sex life though.

She says she does not know herself. Do you think she would like you to be more dominant? That would mean not asking her so much as seducing her. 

Look up DailyGrind's post. It long and starts out what looks hopeless. Read to the end. 

I think if you keep posting like DG and try to work things out with her with a different approach, you will have the kind of sex you want. 

There are many positives here. She is sexual but not in the way you want. When she says it is boring I thunk she may be testing you. Try not to get angry. 

Say something like " when I get you to bed tonight we will see how boring it is" with a confident smile. Then go with a positive attitude - sex is not you servicing her by putting on a show she has 1/2 of the responsibility for the engagement and excitement. 

Tell her how to do that she needs your help. If she is bored and will not follow, then it is partly her fault. 

Lead her tell her that you have a plan on how to make it exciting leave it up to you. 

Vent here but calm down. She is pushing your buttons to get a reaction. Don't let that happen. Show her you are in control of yourself and you can take her along with your for a good sex life, if she will follow. 

Don't act as if you are asking her but lead and invite her to follow. Let go of the initiating for now. Work on the basics.


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## Chris Taylor

I agree... 3-4x per week? that's my annual quota!

While i agree that you can't be begging for it, the problem with ignoring her is that you will just end up more frustrated.

When I was having an affair (and I don't think you should), one of the things said was that she was happy I wasn't bugging her for sex all the time.

Have you tried counseling? Because there are always two sides of the story and she may have reasons that she hasn't discussed with you.


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## FirePower

You guys aren't getting it.


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## Catherine602

Wow 
Do you think it would do any good to tell her what you said here? What have you got to lose since you decided to this course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FirePower

...


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## cherrypie18

Have you ever tried to be a little aggressive? No talking no begging no 'communicating' but just going up to her and being a little rough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerNiceGuy

FirePower said:


> "Now I must resist the urge to talk about this with my wife. That’s where you guys are all going wrong, I’ve read the other threads. I’ve been trying that for years, it makes you a b!tch, and it never works for long.


FP, I know you were not trying to be funny, but your rants are worthy of a comedy routine. I would laugh out loud but my wife is asleep.

Ever see the Chris Rock routine on Spike Lee when he goes off on Spike Lee for being so mad all the time? Very funny. Your thread reminded me of it.

You sound like a classic nice guy, who has been bottling up his resentments for 20 years and now is going to blindside his wife with the whole can of "woop A$$" for every thing she ever did wrong.

I will let you in on one secret - you are mad at the wrong person. Been there, done that. It can be fixed but you will need to find a mirror first.....just sayin


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## jayfromca

don't feel bad....my daughter is 22 months...add 9 months (date she was conceived) and that was the last time my wife and I had sex. 2 1/2 years.


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## Toffer

What happened to this thread? All of Firepower's long posts are gone! 

Firepower, I enjoyed reading your vent and identfied with quite a bit of it.

Please, someone put it back up!


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## Toffer

I have to say I'm sorry I didn't finish reading this last night but I know where FP is coming from.

While I feel he's a bit worse of than I am with his lack of anything else to hold his marriage together, I identified with many of the things I did read.

FP, I'm married 26 years and I'm lucky to average 1x per week and I've just about had it. So far we've now gone 2 1/2 weeks without and it seems as if my wife hasn't even noticed.

We've done all the stuff others have listed here including MC and making her feel emotionally connected and it's worked....for a while. Right now the only physical touch we have is kiss on the cheek in the morning and at night. I am not initiating anything anymore. Guess I'm preparing myself for a life of celibacy.

I am also starting to go out more with my friends and get back into some of my hobbies since I guess I'll have a lot more time on my hands since I won't be having sex anymore.

People have asked me what my long term plans are, seperation, divorce, affair? Honestly, I'm not sure. I plan to give it some more time to see which way it goes but unless she wakes up SOON (and fater numerous conversations where she said she "gets it") I don't know what road I'll take. "She gets it" Well she's the only one for sure!


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## Love Song

Why do people delete their own posts?


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## Toffer

Think FP was just looking to rant and then the advice started to flow and I guess he was not interested in defending his views. I would guess he's been doing that for most of his 20 year marriage to his wife


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## FirePower

I guess I just cooled down and didn't want to be so severely negative and revealing of so many personal details. I didn't want someone to think I was suggesting actual violence when I said "throw a TV through the wall and people begin to listen." It was only allegorical.

And I figured most people who frequent the board would have seen it.

Besides, all the rant could be summed up:

Communication is not the solution. Women will not change, even the best of them. 

<snip>

Women want a mate to provide for them. They don't want to talk. try talking to a woman about what turns her on... that's a good conversation ender, because YOU are supposed to know already, somehow. Try talking during sex... my wife told me a long time ago not to talk while doing the wild thing, it distracts her. She likes to hear dirty talk like "***k me" etc, but doesn't really say those things back unless prompted. Deep down, she wants to be DOMINATED, not have an equal relationship.

So, ever more strong, dominant, distant, and individual I must be. This would be a touching and sad story if I cared, but I don't. I can't care, it works against me.


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## MominMayberry

I have been reading here for a while now and had to join to respond to you. You are making some vast generalisations about women and your anger at us all comes through loud and clear. You want her to be loving and affectionate but you say she is weak, doesn't challenge you mentally, doesn't appeal to you physically and in short say nothing positive about your wife at all (or women), yet you want her to show love and have sex with you when you want. Do you not see how your behavior prevents this?


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## MEM2020

Fire,
My experience has some similarities to yours, though it also has enough differences that the outcome for me is happiness and acceptance, not anger.
1. My W likes a "low affect" male. Happy, upbeat, but low affect
2. My W prefers for me to let her say ILY first, but then definitely wants to hear it back
3. She likes physical aggression, playful wrestling, dominant sexual behavior on my part
4. She definitely likes non sexual affection
5. She has a lower drive but seems to like "connecting" with me that way
6. She is kind and compassionate and makes an effort to keep up with my higher drive
7. She is a great friend
8. If I crowded her, or was emotionally needy that would be a disaster



OTE=FirePower;649088]I guess I just cooled down and didn't want to be so severely negative and revealing of so many personal details. I didn't want someone to think I was suggesting actual violence when I said "throw a TV through the wall and people begin to listen." It was only allegorical.

And I figured most people who frequent the board would have seen it.

Besides, all the rant could be summed up:

Communication is not the solution. Women will not change, even the best of them. 

I don't claim to have any answers for others or need any advice. I enjoy hearing others that can relate to my experiences because it provides some validation. 

While I know some will disagree about who is at fault in these situation, or even if anyone is at fault at all, I think I've got it pretty sewn up. 

I can't speak for all women, but MINE is attracted to anger and violence when it's not directed at her. She responds on a subconscious level. Being distant and occupied and inaccessible is the best way to turn her on. 

Maybe this has its roots in her childhood, a divorced household and a mother who is nice but not affectionate. I don't think I've ever seen my mother-in-law hug her daughter. She has definite long term daddy issues as well.

But I'm not going to change her. I should have known when I married her. She doesn't even freakin masturbate, that should have been a giant red flag years ago.

The clincher is that I can't really imagine a woman in the world who would find me interesting, challenge me intellectually, attract me physically, have a good sense of humor, and love sex nearly as much as I do. It's like looking for a unicorn. 

And it's too late to start another family anyway, I've already got one that's pretty good outside of the whole (typical?) "no one listens to me unless I'm pissed" thing, plus the imbalance of sexual drive.

So, I'm stuck in the same rut and roller coaster ride, and I've given up on wanting her to like sex as much as I do. DISTANCE is the key. Distraction. Separation. Identity. Individualism. 

Because, despite what TV tells you every time you turn it on, women are not emotional and affectionate. They are weak, and looking for someone who is strong. And they are not in touch with themselves at all. They are NOT communicators, despite the common theme. They talk alot, but that is not the same thing. 

Now there might be another class of women that I'm not familiar with, but I'm guessing this describes a big lot of them, and the reason men are often so confused is because the prevailing wisdom is constantly trying to tell us the opposite.

Women want a mate to provide for them. They don't want to talk. try talking to a woman about what turns her on... that's a good conversation ender, because YOU are supposed to know already, somehow. Try talking during sex... my wife told me a long time ago not to talk while doing the wild thing, it distracts her. She likes to hear dirty talk like "***k me" etc, but doesn't really say those things back unless prompted. Deep down, she wants to be DOMINATED, not have an equal relationship.

So, ever more strong, dominant, distant, and individual I must be. This would be a touching and sad story if I cared, but I don't. I can't care, it works against me.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kaykris

Yes, some women are like that, controlling b!tches that LOVE drama. But even those women are not having their emotional needs met and they resort to that behaviour to FEEL something.

Communication is the problem here. Have you told your wife everything you've told us? In full honesty? 

I'm not a spiritual or religious person but I know that what you put out is what you get. 

Stop blaming her for the problems and look at the relationship as a whole. If it's all her fault you wouldn't be here, you'd be leaving her and on your way out the door.


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## FirePower

MominMayberry said:


> You are making some vast generalisations about women and your anger at us all comes through loud and clear.


Yes, I am generalizing, based on my own experiences and the presumption that many men face the same scenario since the symptoms of lack of affection are the same. 

<snip>


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## FirePower

Kaykris said:


> Yes, some women are like that, controlling b!tches that LOVE drama. But even those women are not having their emotional needs met and they resort to that behaviour to FEEL something.


She's not a controlling *****. This is how she exerts her control though. 

<snip>

You can continue to try to blame me all you want. You're going to have to take my word for it because I'm not going to justify myself for you. This is a rant, I'm not trying to sound nice, I'm frustrated. I'm done being nice.

"He's going the distance. He's going for speed. He's all alone..."

"Letting the days go by..."


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## MominMayberry

You are getting very defensive and I didn't attack you. In your post you wrote that you couldn't imagine finding a woman who would challenge you intellectually and attract you physically. To me, it sounds like you think your wife is dumb and ugly. You seem to think mighty high of yourself though. I just wonder, what do you think she thinks? In your latest post you say she contributes nothing so if you feel this way about her, why would she invest anything in making you happy? I wouldn't. Would you?
I am not trying to upset you. I don't understand how you can say those things about your wife and not know that she already knows you feel that about her. Don't you see that?


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## FirePower

<snip>

Well guess what, I don't like to be manipulated by anyone at all, much less the person I've entrusted my whole life to. But I've already tried the talk-talk-talk thing until I want to throw up, so I'm gonna stoop to some manipulation of my own, go against my nature, and continue now being aloof and uninterested. I have nothing to lose.


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## Zatol Ugot?

Wow.


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## MominMayberry

^^^^ Yes.

Firepower, You said she was smart and pretty after two posts about her being lacking and saying nothing nice about her. Only after I asked you about her good qualities did you say anything pleasant about her. I don't have a reading problem. 
So I guess the question is why not divorce her? Just leave and be done. 
Also, those who say their partners are boring are boring themselves. Its really easy to look around and say life is boring and blame the partner. This doesn't just apply to the bedroom, it applies to life. Make your own excitement. If you find boredom in your relationship, its because you contribute to it. I can assure you that you are as boring as she is. What would she say about you if she were here?


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## FirePower

<snip>

Listen, I understand you're a woman, and so you imagine that I must be some real a$$hole to say my wife is boring, and obviously it must be MY fault. But, you're wrong.


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## FormerNiceGuy

This is the thread that keeps giving:smthumbup:


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## cherrypie18

Perhaps she is depressed or just less attracted to you than 20 years ago? But 3-4 times a week for a 20yr marriage is pretty damn good. I'm in my 20s and the only time we had that much sex was in the first year of our marriage. 

The way you describe your wife reminds me of my husband. We have some things in common but we don't really share much, do not have a conversation that lasts longer than 5 minutes. He does not talk about interesting topics such as the ones you mentioned in your post. I do that with other people but not husband. I guess some people are incapable of holding a conversation with their spouse. 


P.S. I watch the Nat Geo channel as well as Dr. Phil, what does that make me?


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## MEM2020

Fire,
Let me get this straight. For 20 years you have:
- Been a good husband (I believe you)
- Met most/all her needs (been generous with your time, treasure and talent)
- Told her you loved her, she is hot, etc.
- Encouraged her to make more of herself

Periodically you would get angry and be very pointed with her. She changed nothing and very quickly you resumed meeting all her needs. 

You created this monster. This was likely fixable in the first few years. But after 20 years of occassionally being chastised/sniped at - but no real consequence - she has zero respect for you. You critiqued her but never stood up to her. Never destabilized the relationship. 

As for "I will never find anyone else because" - I note one of your first criteria is beauty. If that is your criteria - unless you are rich - you are right. A beautiful woman isn't likely to treat you better than your wife. 




FirePower said:


> I wrote "I can't really imagine a woman in the world who would find me interesting, challenge me intellectually, attract me physically, have a good sense of humor, and love sex nearly as much as I do."
> 
> I was implying that beautiful women who love sex and don't use it as a tool in their relationships seem to be quite rare. It was a hypothetical about starting over as a worse-case scenario. Since women seem to be all the same, and even my "nice" girl is going to use sex as a form of manipulation, then I can't imagine finding a woman who is not. But at least some fo them might make up for it by having a freakin personality for God's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you have a problem with reading comprehension, because I said she's both smart and beautiful. You are interpreting it the way you want because, being a woman yourself, you want to defend her.
> 
> 
> 
> People who don't think highly of themselves have low self-esteem.
> 
> Look, I understand, you're not used to people being brutally honest with you and frank about these issues. People always want to seem "nice," and "fair," but sometimes that's just prolonging the actual truth of the issue for the sake of politeness. I'm getting right to the point.
> 
> 
> 
> "Invest" anything? Well, I'd say since I tell her I love her, daily, and I'm always affectionate, and I go to work and hand her all my money, and I'm a decent conversationalist and an attentive lover, the question is why WOULDN'T she "invest" in me? You see, that's the problem, you see sex as a commodity, don't you, to be doled out if the other party is meritorious and you're feeling bullish. If SHE has issues and doesn't have anything of substance to contribute, why are you looking to place some of the blame on me? I'll tell you why. It's because of the belief that women are inherently better than men. Nicer. More deserving. So, if my wife isn't passionate, it must be MY fault, because I'm too high on myself, right?
> 
> 
> 
> You're not upsetting me, I'm already upset.
> 
> You're saying she KNOWS that I think she's complacent and boring, because it's obvious and reveals itself in our sex tension, and still she does nothing lasting to improve the situation.
> 
> Oh, God, yes, she knows, we've talked about it a hundred times. I'm not going to talk to her about it again. Eventually maybe she'll make the connection as to why I'm growing more distant. I doubt that she'll respond though in any way favorable or permanent. Her family is obviously not important to her, or she's just too fixed on being who she is to change. She has no sense of self-criticism, sets the bar way too low for herself, so she shouldn't wonder why I've lost interest. If you can't criticize yourself and have no standards, how will you accept criticism from others and accept their standards?
> 
> This isn't a mystery. I'm not looking for answers. I don't need advice, I'm giving advice. I'm venting and making sure the other guys here know what they are in store for in their relationships as time goes on. My wife isn't unique, this whole sex-as-a-manipulation-tool thing is as old as the hills.
> 
> Well guess what, I don't like to be manipulated by anyone at all, much less the person I've entrusted my whole life to. But I've already tried the talk-talk-talk thing until I want to throw up, so I'm gonna stoop to some manipulation of my own, go against my nature, and continue now being aloof and uninterested. I have nothing to lose.


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## Catherine602

FirePower I know you are venting but you are really funny and outrageous.


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## Toffer

FP,
Keep posting! I find quite a bit of common ground with what you say and feel.

However, I think I am a bit more calm about my issues because I have been "broken" for years on what I'm supposed to do and how I'm supposed to act.

Sometimes I think your approach to venting may be much more beneficial. Sort of a scream therapy if you will.


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## sisters359

This is one of those situations where it is really clear that people say "I love my spouse," but they really do not. They may care for their spouse--like they might care for a child who is not their own--but they really do not love the individual.

I gotta run, but I hope to get back to this thread. I think it is great to see the unbridled thoughts of a man in this situation.


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## FirePower

Toffer said:


> FP,
> Keep posting! I find quite a bit of common ground with what you say and feel.
> 
> However, I think I am a bit more calm about my issues because I have been "broken" for years on what I'm supposed to do and how I'm supposed to act.
> 
> Sometimes I think your approach to venting may be much more beneficial. Sort of a scream therapy if you will.


Thanks for the comments, even the ladies who think I'm a jerk, you game me some material to work with.

Scream therapy is exactly what it is, thanks for understanding me.

<snip>

Now, I'm forced to manipulate her back, because, it works. But it doesn't feel right. It's foreign, to me. I thought transparency and honesty and love in a relationship would suffice, but I was wrong.


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## Deejo

Catherine602 said:


> If she sexually satisfied you, would all of these faults go away?
> 
> If not, how will sex solve your problems with your wife? You started the thread with your sexual problems but that seems dwarfed by the mountain of her deficits.
> 
> Dare I say work on all of these serious issues and maybe the sex will come back.
> 
> Or are her defects the delusions of a sex-starved man?
> 
> I watch only cartoons.


What he is saying is as a RESULT of not having a wife that DESIRES him intimately, is that all of the other 'defects' become more and more glaring. As a result of not getting what you need, you start taking inventory of what else is good ... and bad ... about your partner.
FirePower has illustrated that entire arc perfectly. He doesn't hate his wife. Quite the opposite ... that is why he's here. That is why he's venting.
From an outsider's perspective it seems quite simple to just realign the dynamic and say 'well obviously your attitude is why you aren't getting laid.' 
When quite simply ... it is that not getting laid, is what created the attitude in the first place.

This is a guy that loved/loves his wife ... and as a direct result of how she chooses to interact with him; he is wondering why it is that he loves her.

I remember these feelings, and he's done a stand-up job of articulating them.

I can remember looking at my wife and saying;"Do you realize how precious little you would actually need to do to make me happy?"

And it was true. Had she been able to smile at me a little more, engage me a little more, and love me a little more ... all of the other 'defects' wouldn't have mattered. They could have been overlooked.

I had tried all of the other roundabout ways to convey the message that I wasn't happy, up to and including therapy.

And when it got to the point that I said those words, she took it as a criticism and withdrew instead of seeing it as a warning and an opportunity to engage and reconnect.

So ... although I'm very well aware that poster's may make comments that seem presumptive or are generalizing; that doesn't mean that their presumptions and generalizations are unique. 

Believe me, I wish they were unique. I try to give folks a little leeway when they are obviously hurting.


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## Catherine602

I know Deejo, thats why I deleted my post, it sounded defensive. 

I think this is one of those threads that is important because it is a stream of consciousness and offers insight. THis is what happens on the inside of a man who loves his wife but is repeatedly refused sex. I hope woman who are like his wife read this. It is rare for a man to reveal what he feels when provoked. 

I don't want him to stop saying exactly how he feels.


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## FirePower

Catherine602 said:


> I know Deejo, thats why I deleted my post, it sounded defensive.
> 
> I think this is one of those threads that is important because it is a stream of consciousness and offers insight. THis is what happens on the inside of a man who loves his wife but is repeatedly refused sex. I hope woman who are like his wife read this. It is rare for a man to reveal what he feels when provoked.
> 
> I don't want him to stop saying exactly how he feels.


Thank you.

Venting has helped. I appreciate it.


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## Conrad

FirePower said:


> Thanks for the comments, even the ladies who think I'm a jerk, you game me some material to work with..................
> 
> Now, I'm forced to manipulate her back, because, it works. But it doesn't feel right. It's foreign, to me. I thought transparency and honesty and love in a relationship would suffice, but I was wrong.


FP,

Hard lessons.

People do things because they want to.

They don't do things because they don't want to.

What was your wife's childhood like?


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## FormerNiceGuy

FirePower said:


> Anyway, there's this undercurrent in our sex life where she is completely in control, yet won't initiate. This whole rant isn't about not getting enough sex. It's not about how she won't swallow or do anal.
> 
> What it is about is attitude, and control, and balance of power. I give up my power every day. I go to work for some guy who picks apart everything I do and tells me how I must do it according to his specifications. He's my boss, that's his role. I am subservient. I do this, week after week, because if I didn't, I'd have no way to pay the mortgage. My wife and kids would have no place to live.


These two paragraphs explain your problem. You are in nice guy mode, keeping a stiff upper lip, building resentments on a daily basis.

My wife, who is looking over my shoulder as I type, read your post and suggested you read the following:

Facing Love Addiction by Pia Mellody. 

My wife took away my 2 x 4, so that is all for now


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## Trenton

Catherine602 said:


> I know Deejo, thats why I deleted my post, it sounded defensive.
> 
> I think this is one of those threads that is important because it is a stream of consciousness and offers insight. THis is what happens on the inside of a man who loves his wife but is repeatedly refused sex. I hope woman who are like his wife read this. It is rare for a man to reveal what he feels when provoked.
> 
> I don't want him to stop saying exactly how he feels.


You do realize that he said he has sex with his wife 3-4X's a week right? It's just too impassioned for him. I didn't read the original threads he deleted but got this from the posters who posted after him.

He is strong like man. He can speak how he feels no problem then.


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## Catherine602

Trenton said:


> You do realize that he said he has sex with his wife 3-4X's a week right? It's just too impassioned for him. I didn't read the original threads he deleted but got this from the posters who posted after him.
> 
> He is strong like man. He can speak how he feels no problem then.


What?? I don't understand. He said he is not having sex and that he is turned down by her. That what I thought I read. I did not go back to read.


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## FirePower

Catherine602 said:


> What?? I don't understand. He said he is not having sex and that he is turned down by her. That what I thought I read. I did not go back to read.


Prostitutes have sex often too, it doesn't define their relationship as positive and healthy. The issue is not about frequency, it's about control. My wife and I have sex frequently by some standards, infrequently by others.

Again, I would pose the comparison;

How would women feel if their husbands, on the way out the door for work, or upon returning home, did not want to embrace, kiss, or talk?

For men, the sexual act - sometimes daily - is an exchange of emotion very much akin to the goodbye kiss at the door before work. When this offer of affection is refused or becomes less passionate, we suffer emotionally, just as you would if your husband refused to kiss you when you want it.

I suspect "I'm just not in the mood for a kiss right now" would not satisfy the woman in this scenario. Follow-up questions might include "What's wrong?" "Did I do something?" and eventually "Is there someone else?" etc.

Incidentally, since this just popped into my head, I will add that many modern men are obsessed with penis size. Women are often perplexed by this, but I think it's related to this issue exactly. If our penis was larger, we imagine you'd moan louder. We image you're want sex more, it would compel you without overt suggestion. We imagine you'd brag about us to your friends. But the reason I feel this is important isn't because of the actual sexual nature of the "big penis" issue, it's the emotional nature.

I guess I'm speculating that many men feel like inadequate lovers because their spouse does not make them feel loved an appreciated on a physical level, and men have little to no ability to distinguish between the physical and emotional appreciation. This rears it's, uh, head in the form of the penis obsession, but it's really an obsession with being appreciated, I think.

There's still no apparent solution to this problem. Women appear to be devoid of the ability or desire to see their husbands as needing validation and affection as much, or maybe more, than they themselves need it, and in this frame of reference, they are simply not generous givers.


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## phantomfan

FirePower said:


> Prostitutes have sex often too, it doesn't define their relationship as positive and healthy. The issue is not about frequency, it's about control. My wife and I have sex frequently by some standards, infrequently by others.
> 
> Again, I would pose the comparison;
> 
> How would women feel if their husbands, on the way out the door for work, or upon returning home, did not want to embrace, kiss, or talk?
> 
> For men, the sexual act - sometimes daily - is an exchange of emotion very much akin to the goodbye kiss at the door before work. When this offer of affection is refused or becomes less passionate, we suffer emotionally, just as you would if your husband refused to kiss you when you want it.
> 
> I suspect "I'm just not in the mood for a kiss right now" would not satisfy the woman in this scenario. Follow-up questions might include "What's wrong?" "Did I do something?" and eventually "Is there someone else?" etc.
> 
> Incidentally, since this just popped into my head, I will add that many modern men are obsessed with penis size. Women are often perplexed by this, but I think it's related to this issue exactly. If our penis was larger, we imagine you'd moan louder. We image you're want sex more, it would compel you without overt suggestion. We imagine you'd brag about us to your friends. But the reason I feel this is important isn't because of the actual sexual nature of the "big penis" issue, it's the emotional nature.
> 
> I guess I'm speculating that many men feel like inadequate lovers because their spouse does not make them feel loved an appreciated on a physical level, and men have little to no ability to distinguish between the physical and emotional appreciation. This rears it's, uh, head in the form of the penis obsession, but it's really an obsession with being appreciated, I think.
> 
> There's still no apparent solution to this problem. Women appear to be devoid of the ability or desire to see their husbands as needing validation and affection as much, or maybe more, than they themselves need it, and in this frame of reference, they are simply not generous givers.


*
Vent On*

I've had ugly fights about sex with my wife. Exasperated, she's told me two things. One, so you just want me to have sex with you every night, no matter how I feel or that I don't want you. Two, if you're so miserable, leave. 

Venting here helps keep me sane and away from more dangerous activities (for now). It's not about having sex every night, but it is about DAILY emotional and physical availability. Its the feeling that the person you are with is crazy about you, (enough to be crazy with you and about you. That your intimate life and need fulfillment does not read like a vague horoscope or weather forecast. Someone who wasn't in the mood, but since you were crazy about them, that got them hot and they responded to you like you mattered to them. The "I wasn't in the mood" is forgotten about and not brought up later to show you how saintly they are for having ANY sex with you at all. It's about connecting on a level that you don't with anyone else. Something you save just for them, but gets ignored like a week old bouquet of flowers. 

It's not about sex, its not just about sex, it's completely about sex. All of the above are true. I stay because I don't want anyone else. I want to change the rules of the game before the day comes that I DO want to leave. Is that so damn hard to understand? 

* Venting over*


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## reset button

I am female, ignored husbands need for intimacy because I was taking hormonal birth control pill. Was it wrong, YES, am I still to this day surprised that he indured it, YES. Did I really realize at the time how much it hurt him, NO. I was depressed and couldn't see it.

I don't want to get involved in all this thread, and you can choose to believe me or not, but I stopped taking BC pills and our sex life and intimacy is better than ever before, and unbelievably passionate, I initiate constantly, it is very emotional and fulfilling connection. We also have "wild monkey love" nights too. LOL. But, seriously, I personally have never used sex as a reward/weapon. But have been indifferent to his emotional need for sex because I wasn't physically needing it myself and that I will always regret.

I am SURE that this is not that case for everyone, but wanted to mention it so that any husbands dealing with LD wives that are on hormonal birth control can consider different forms of birth control to see if it helps. So glad I did. Best Wishes for your future

(PS I had to be on it for many years before it started to affect me this way, it got worse and worse over the last 2-3 years I took it, I had taken birth control between and after kids for 15+ years)


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## Trenton

FirePower said:


> Prostitutes have sex often too, it doesn't define their relationship as positive and healthy. The issue is not about frequency, it's about control. My wife and I have sex frequently by some standards, infrequently by others.
> 
> Again, I would pose the comparison;
> 
> How would women feel if their husbands, on the way out the door for work, or upon returning home, did not want to embrace, kiss, or talk?
> 
> For men, the sexual act - sometimes daily - is an exchange of emotion very much akin to the goodbye kiss at the door before work. When this offer of affection is refused or becomes less passionate, we suffer emotionally, just as you would if your husband refused to kiss you when you want it.
> 
> I suspect "I'm just not in the mood for a kiss right now" would not satisfy the woman in this scenario. Follow-up questions might include "What's wrong?" "Did I do something?" and eventually "Is there someone else?" etc.
> 
> Incidentally, since this just popped into my head, I will add that many modern men are obsessed with penis size. Women are often perplexed by this, but I think it's related to this issue exactly. If our penis was larger, we imagine you'd moan louder. We image you're want sex more, it would compel you without overt suggestion. We imagine you'd brag about us to your friends. But the reason I feel this is important isn't because of the actual sexual nature of the "big penis" issue, it's the emotional nature.
> 
> I guess I'm speculating that many men feel like inadequate lovers because their spouse does not make them feel loved an appreciated on a physical level, and men have little to no ability to distinguish between the physical and emotional appreciation. This rears it's, uh, head in the form of the penis obsession, but it's really an obsession with being appreciated, I think.
> 
> There's still no apparent solution to this problem. Women appear to be devoid of the ability or desire to see their husbands as needing validation and affection as much, or maybe more, than they themselves need it, and in this frame of reference, they are simply not generous givers.


I have a few questions for you...

Why does your wife have to make your appointments for you? Why can't you make your own appointments?

You don't value your wife or her likes, choices and how she chooses to do her job in regards to raising the children. You've vocalized this in some of your posts. Would you enjoy it if your boss didn't like anything you did? If he or she were hypercritical constantly, judgmental all the while constantly asking for more?

Further, would you want to be in a passionate, intimate relationship and please a person in your life who was constantly demanding, had a non-stop barrage of requests all the while disliking and criticizing your every choice? Would you feel passionate about life and the world around you if you spent your time serving those who only ever asked for more? -or- Would you do exactly what you are doing now in your own job and what your wife is doing in her job as your wife?...the minimum to get the job done and stay exactly where you are.

I think you have more in common with your wife than you'd admit and this may very well be why you feel disgust towards her.

So you tell her the solution is passion...a passion she is unable to feel because you're a demanding, self focused person who has gone as far as to ritualistically believe with fervor that all women are like the painted version you have developed in your mind.

To me you come off as a person who is frustrated and angry with his life but unwilling to change it and this has nothing to do with how women are or even how men are. It is about how you are.


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## FirePower

Trenton said:


> I have a few questions for you...
> 
> Why does your wife have to make your appointments for you? Why can't you make your own appointments?


Your kidding right? It was an example of ONE thing I asked her to do.



Trenton said:


> You don't value your wife or her likes, choices and how she chooses to do her job in regards to raising the children. You've vocalized this in some of your posts.


Yea, and what's your point?



Trenton said:


> Would you enjoy it if your boss didn't like anything you did? If he or she were hypercritical constantly, judgmental all the while constantly asking for more?


It's YOUR assumption that I'm hypocritical. If your spouse started smoking crack, do you think you might find yourself in the position of being "critical" about it? Who are YOU to say what's "concerned" and what's "over-critical?"

Oh, wait, I see, you're the hero, here to save my wife from my awful assault by playing the devil's advocate. Save it.



Trenton said:


> Further, would you want to be in a passionate, intimate relationship and please a person in your life who was constantly demanding, had a non-stop barrage of requests all the while disliking and criticizing your every choice?


Wow, did it take you a while to hoist that baggage onto me or was it a quick trip to the land of self-righteousness?



Trenton said:


> Would you feel passionate about life and the world around you if you spent your time serving those who only ever asked for more? ?


Yea, that's what I do. I have a lot of kids. They don't give much back except love. But they are my kids. I expect my wife to pull her weight in the relationship, she's all grown up now.



Trenton said:


> -or- Would you do exactly what you are doing now in your own job and what your wife is doing in her job as your wife?...the minimum to get the job done and stay exactly where you are.


I don't do the minimum at my job OR in life, I have ambition and drive. I think your crystal ball needs some polishing. Maybe a new bulb or something.



Trenton said:


> I think you have more in common with your wife than you'd admit and this may very well be why you feel disgust towards her.


Or maybe I feel disgust toward her for the reasons I stated that I feel disgusted at her.



Trenton said:


> So you tell her the solution is passion...a passion she is unable to feel because you're a demanding, self focused person who has gone as far as to ritualistically believe with fervor that all women are like the painted version you have developed in your mind..


No, I've come to my conclusions simply by experiencing a long-term relationship, and by listening to my peers, and by reading the posts on this board. And no, ALL women are not like my wife, but MOST of them are, by a wide margin. And no, I'm NOT a demanding & self-focused. You, on the other hand, are clearly presumptuous and suffer from a hero complex.



Trenton said:


> To me you come off as a person who is frustrated and angry with his life but unwilling to change it and this has nothing to do with how women are or even how men are. It is about how you are.


Yea, keep telling yourself that. To me you come off as a hairless virgin living with his mommy. Pretty neat, how easy that was, huh? I just *projected* it onto you. Just like that.

Listen, I didn't ask for your opinion, so keep it. I'm more aware and cognisant of the details of my own relationship than you are, doncha think? I'm not asking you for advice, I'm telling you how it is. If you don't like it that's your own problem. 

If you want to believe that most women are communicative and affectionate creatures who don't blindly manipulate their mates with sex throughout the course of their relationship, dream away. 

Have a great day!


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## kittykat09

FirePower said:


> If you want to believe that most women are communicative and affectionate creatures who don't blindly manipulate their mates with sex throughout the course of their relationship, dream away.


You have serious issues. Like, in desperate need of serious counseling and you know it otherwise you wouldn't constantly edit the seething hatred you feel towards women in general out of your older posts.


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## strugglinghusband

kittykat09 said:


> You have serious issues. Like, in desperate need of serious counseling and you know it otherwise you wouldn't constantly edit the seething hatred you feel towards women in general out of your older posts.





I dont see hatred towards women in his posts, He is is telling it like it is in his eyes, angry yes, hate no, and all anger is based on some type of fear (all of it) He is AFRAID! (not bashing you firepower).

I can see and understand that.....FRUSTRATION.


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## Catherine602

strugglinghusband said:


> I dont see hatred towards women in his posts, He is is telling it like it is in his eyes, angry yes, hate no, and all anger is based on some type of fear (all of it) He is AFRAID! (not bashing you firepower).
> 
> I can see and understand that.....FRUSTRATION.


Before you give him the bro fist punch as the poster child for abused and sex-starved men, use a little common sense. 

Do you really think that frustration in a relationship justifies this kind of rage against his wife in particular and women in general? 

Do you think that not getting passionate sex is justification for the vitriol he spews? Really? 

Has it occurred to you that a man who is this angry is a very angry man, period. Is it reasonable that a woman is expected to have sexual passion for a man with this much anger and hatred towards her? 

How would that work? What does she do, come to him contrite and apologetic for the sins of women and then have passionate make-up sex? 

I think this relationship is over. Anyone who stays in a relationship with someone they don't like let alone love and with the expectation that they will extend themselves delusional. That or they need a ready target for their rage. 

I am certain his wife has seen this anger throughout their marriage when she does not do things as he has ordained. Her passion and love for him may have withered a long time ago under such firepower.

What is sad is tacit and overt approval of this man as the mouth piece for justified male rage against women. He is telling women off under the guise of a bad relationship. 

He would be the rare partner that had absolutely no role in his wife's dispassion. He is the archetypal male victim of female manipulation. 

He says he has done everything possible, we have his word for it. Or else why would he be so angry, right. 

Might be some circular reasoning there but, what the hay. There is not a lot of reasoning going on here. 

This is not about his wife or even about their relationship. This post reveals the raw underbelly of the general and pervasive male hostility towards women. 

Thanks Firepower, keep at it. Expose the real male attitude towards women. Don't dare complain about my generalization either.


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## Deejo

strugglinghusband said:


> I dont see hatred towards women in his posts, He is is telling it like it is in his eyes, angry yes, hate no, and all anger is based on some type of fear (all of it) He is AFRAID! (not bashing you firepower).
> 
> I can see and understand that.....FRUSTRATION.


Bingo.

Fear of what happens when one partners behavior threatens the stability and intimacy of the relationship, ultimately manifests as anger in the other partner.


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## Conrad

I would add that while it's ok to be angry here, it's best not to show that to your spouse.

It robs you of your power and truly lessens their respect for you - as you are out of control.


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