# Didn't See This Comming



## Incrediblysad (Jun 29, 2011)

Wow life really can turn you upside down quickly. Here is our quick background. I have been with my wife for 10 years, 5 of which married. We had a baby a little over a year ago. She has only had sex with one person in her life, me. We began dating right after she started collage.

So now onto what lead me to post here. The other night my wife and her sister were outside of our house having some drinks while I was in laying down. I overheard my wife saying that she had feelings, or a crush, on this other guy. She said that she imagined being with him sexually and all these other things that honestly I can’t remember because I could only sit there in disbelief at the time. Eventually I went out and confronted her. We began to talk and she told me that one night when they we were all out and they were both plastered that he tried to kiss her and that she pushed him away. I know the guy so she didn’t tell me as she did not want me to be upset. Eventually she reviled that in fact she didn’t push him away and the kiss was mutual. She said she realized that it was wrong after she did it and she told him that nothing could come of it as they were both in serious relationships. She hid this from me for few months. They continued to text back and forth supposedly as friends but she deleted his messages so I will never really know.

She told me that after the birth of the baby that she felt like things had changed between us and that we were growing apart. She spent a lot of time with the baby and her family and I was working 2 jobs. So the quality time was not there. She said that she felt like the romance was gone and the attention this guy gave her made her feel good. She said that it was nice to feel that even after the child she was still attractive to other people.

She is a total wreck now. I believe that she truly feels bad for it. She is a good person and I guess that is why this hurts so much as I never would have expected it from her. She wants to work things out. I am just having a hard time now as is still so fresh. We have set up an appointment with a therapist and I do want to try and make it work. But there are some moments in the day that I just feel so torn apart inside. Any advice would truly be appreciated.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Incrediblysad said:


> She is a total wreck now. I believe that she truly feels bad for it. She is a good person and I guess that is why this hurts so much as I never would have expected it from her. *She wants to work things out*. I am just having a hard time now as is still so fresh. We have set up an appointment with a therapist and I do want to try and make it work. But there are some moments in the day that I just feel so torn apart inside. Any advice would truly be appreciated.


Your wife has been having an EA - emotional affair - with the OM that has culminated in a mild PA - the kiss IS a physical act you know.

If she truly wants to 'work things out' then she has to end all contact with the OM - other man once and for all. And she has to be totally transparent to you - no secret phones or password protected sites, etc.

You have to Man-up and be willing to convey to her that if she breaks no contact with the OM that you will file for divorce and mean it. She has to know that there are consequences for her actions.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Incrediblysad said:


> She told me that after the birth of the baby that she felt like things had changed between us and that we were growing apart. She spent a lot of time with the baby and her family and I was working 2 jobs. So the quality time was not there. She said that she felt like the romance was gone and the attention this guy gave her made her feel good. She said that it was nice to feel that even after the child she was still attractive to other people.


It's funny how they complain about the lack of quality time due to having to earn a living and provide for the family, so go to another man for validation. Yet they *NEVER EVER* complain about the money you bring in.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> It's funny how they complain about the lack of quality time due to having to earn a living and provide for the family, so go to another man for validation. Yet they *NEVER EVER* complain about the money you bring in.


:iagree:

Let them become single mothers so they can work their butts off. Let them struggle so they can pay for food and a roof over their heads. We'll see if their OM will hang around to support them. Or for that matter, if they have enough energy to continue having an affair.


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

I don't know the circumstances of how you were able to hear her conversation with her sister, but she would probably have to talk at a normal or higher than normal volume outside for you to hear her. 

I think she wanted you to know so you could help her put an end to it. Just by telling her sister, she was increasing the chances of you finding out about it. It is the same concept of someone leaving an email or facebook open so the other spouse will catch questionable messages. 

I am not the best judge of character, but it sounds to me like she really does want the relationship with the OM to be over and she wanted you to step in before it got out of control.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

You CAN work this out. It wil ltake work, it will take time, it will take BOTh of you. Take the time to read here; there is much to learn and to apply to your situation.

You are most likely NOT getting the entire truth (and you perhaps never will). Classic scenario is 'trickle-truth'... cheaters will most always not admit to anything that can't be proven otherwise. Assume the worst, and decide what you want to know about, and work at getting that level of detail from her. You've already witnessed the TT in action... first it was 'she pushed him away'... then it was a mutual kiss... then it was ongoing EA texting. I would guarantee it was way more than 'just as friends' - if it was, she wouldn't have deleted the texts.

Get informed on the dopamine, drug-like high of her feeling attractive to other men.

It's good that you both understand where and when you derailed in your relationship. Many of us are 'guilty' of working a lot and under-attending to our SO. That DOES NOT EXCUSE her decision to cheat. 

Recognize also that beyond whatever actually happened physically and emotionally, you're going to have to work through the fact that she lied about it all. The deception is what ultimately hurts us even more than the activity itself, and is harder to get past. Facing it is very hard.

MC is an absolute right step and approach. Good sign that 'she is a total wreck' and remorseful. Again, you want to be sure to know what she is remorseful about(!)

She needs to stop ALL contact with the OM immediately, and show you/have you approve exactly how that occurs. If she sends a note, you should approve it beforehand. The fact that you know him makes it more important. If he has a woman/spouse, tell her. The two parties working to prevent future contact will help.

You don't seem like a doormat; I'm not sure a 180 is the right approach for you... boundaries are already clear; she knows she did wrong (how much wrong, you still need to establish and believe...) What matters now is working through it, and defining what you will do about it all. If you both want it to work, it can.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

As others have said. There is a good chance that you don't know the whole truth yet. The kiss may have been kissing/fondling, or even sex. The texting may have been sexting involving nude photos. The one time physical action may have been an ongoing, physical affair.

Search for posts by Affaircare here that spell out the process you should now follow. Basically, she writes a letter to the OM stating that she wants no further contact from him. You read this letter and then you mail it. She gives you the passwords to all her email/Facebook accounts and also gives you access to her phone. If the OM attempts to contact her, she ends contact immediately and tells you. Then, you can each try to move forward.

MC is a good option. You need to communicate to her exactly how destroyed you are. She needs to explicitly apologize to you for betraying you and your child in the worst way possible.

There are many couples that have been where you are and have come out the other side with a stronger relationship. Good luck.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

One of the best threads I have read on here about overcoming an affair was http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/8698-how-we-overcame-adultery.html.

Read through Bestblu1's comments. I think one of the most important things is to forgive her ASAP. Bestblu1 talks a lot about this.


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## Incrediblysad (Jun 29, 2011)

This is so hard as my wife works with the guy. No contact at all can only happen if one of them leaves their job. I told her that I don't want her being alone with him but in actuality I can't do anything about it. In the end I just need to trust her. And at this point it is really hard to do. I'm a rational person and I know that people sometimes are attracted to other people. It's human nature. Just because you are attracted to someone else and they make you feel all nice inside dose not mean that you have to act upon it. It drives me crazy because all she needed to do was talk to me about how she was feeling.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Incrediblysad said:


> We began to talk and she told me that one night when they we were all out and they were both plastered that he tried to kiss her and that she pushed him away. I know the guy so she didn’t tell me as she did not want me to be upset.


What everyone said is great. Total NC is a must. Yes you need to work with her on improving things for sure.

Not to go off on a big tangent but to get a better idea of the dynamics and how they found themselves in position to have that kiss what was the situation? Who is this guy and what is his relationship to your wife?

Was this a mutual friends get together? Was it work related? How often does she go out drinking without you. Where were you? Not trying to go down a controlling thing here. Just want to see if there were signs of this up front by her activities. Did this guy just happen to be there at the wrong time or was it really about him to begin with.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

If that is what it would take, you need to decide what is more important - her job or your marriage.

I know it sounds harsh and bold... think about it. This is time for harsh & bold!

@Riverside: totally respect your profession, but I think counsel to "forgive her asap" is a little much for someone right at DDay. That is a lot to ask of someone who's processed everything, much less figuring out what's what at this stage. Forgiveness too soon is as dangerous as none at all, maybe more.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Incrediblysad said:


> *This is so hard as my wife works with the guy.* No contact at all can only happen if one of them leaves their job. I told her that I don't want her being alone with him but in actuality I can't do anything about it.* In the end I just need to trust her. *And at this point it is really hard to do. I'm a rational person and I know that people sometimes are attracted to other people. It's human nature. Just because you are attracted to someone else and they make you feel all nice inside dose not mean that you have to act upon it. It drives me crazy because all she needed to do was talk to me about how she was feeling.


Heres the deal. I had an EA at my work. My wife called me on it. I was already preparing to change jobs. So the NC happened, but I went through at least six weeks of withdrawal. There is no way I would still be married now if I had not changed jobs.

It is highly likely that this will proceed to a PA if it has not yet. Is your wife's job more important than her having an affair, tearing your heart out and you ultimately losing her. For me, I would insist on NC and her changing jobs.

If you have kids, it sux to not be there for them and have to settle for visiting privs while another man gets to be the surrogate father.

Is this guy married?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The classic workplace affair, now that makes more sense. So they went out for drinks or something after work? These are one of the hardest types of affairs to stop from what I've read, because they see each other everyday. You can bet that this has gone on for some time, from an EA to a PA. If you can at all afford it, she may have to change jobs if possible and work somewhere else. How about HR? You may have to expose the A to HR. If he is married, you may have to expose the A to his betrayed wife. Affairs thrive on secrecy. That's what the rush is all about.

Like 2xloser says, you have now experienced TT, and this is probably the tip of the iceberg. You have to believe that an A is basically a drug, she gets a high from the adrenaline rush and the dopamine thats excreted in her brain due to the A. It's nigh impossible to break that habit on their own. She has moved into the fog of the A.

Because she's addicted to the A, they will not be able to stop communicating with each other, even though they work together and see each other all the time. They WILL want to communicate with each other ALL the time even when they are not at work and on their days off. This is where they slip up. There WILL be computer and/or phone evidence of their communication. Unless the A is deep underground, you will be able to detect it. Keep in mind that common affair tools for this communication are the secret email accounts and secret cell phones. She will obtain a secret cell phone if she knows that her primary cell phone is compromised by you. 

Do you want to save your marriage? Do you want to trust her? Then you are going to have to fight for it and go to lengths that you never expected to. You are going to have to investigate to see how far this has gone. If you're like me, you can't forgive unless you know what you're forgiving. You will also need to keep your monitoring methods a secret so that you will be able to verify that there is indeed NC and so that you can eventually regain a little trust in her. You may have to invest in some computer monitoring software to detect any secret chatting, secret email accounts, etc. 

You may also have to invest in a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder), that you can place under the drivers seat or front passenger seat of her vehicle using industrial strength velcro. If there is one place that cheaters feel safe in calling their AP, its their vehicle. They will not be able to resist calling each other while they drive home. Like I said, they will want to communicate all the time. You may also be able to detect if they go to secret lunches using her vehicle. You never know. You may want to place a VAR in the bedroom too and hide it accordingly. 

If she is as remorseful as she appears to be, then she should want to do anything to regain that trust. And that means being transparent. Willingly handing over all usernames/passwords to all accounts, allow you to look at her cell phone and never password lock it, and be accountable for her physical whereabouts. 

This is only the start of the things you may have to do to save your marriage and kill the affair. Do not believe for one second that its over. Cheaters lie. Always remember that.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I know this is going to be hard to accept, but trust is not going to do it.

You trusted her to not fall in love with another guy to begin with. She took vows when you married and has crossed some boundaries and done things that broke your trust. Again I speak from the viewpoint of having been in the EA. I never lost love for my wife. I broke her trust though. But the fog that you fail into during an affair will keep the affair going. You need tough love here. You have to stop the affair by demanding NC. Not to do so is enabling the affair.


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## Incrediblysad (Jun 29, 2011)

The unknown is what drives me nuts. She said she has told me everything, just the one kiss, but I will never actually know. People tell me that If I want to move forward with the marriage I need to let the unknown go and focus on fixing what lead us to this point. He is not married. The messed up part is I thought we were friends. That saying about "Bros before hoes" went right out the window.


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## jsmith (Nov 1, 2009)

lordmayhem said:


> It's funny how they complain about the lack of quality time due to having to earn a living and provide for the family, so go to another man for validation. Yet they *NEVER EVER* complain about the money you bring in.


or the money they spend..


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Incrediblysad said:


> The unknown is what drives me nuts. She said she has told me everything, just the one kiss, but I will never actually know. People tell me that If I want to move forward with the marriage I need to let the unknown go and focus on fixing what lead us to this point. He is not married. The messed up part is I thought we were friends. That saying about *"Bros before hoes" *went right out the window.



Misplaced trust. Or maybe more fairly, that the trust you had there was trumped by the feelings that grew between your wife and him. An affair is overwhelmingly powerful. I am making no excuses for anyone. The folks in the affair are said to be in a fog. The only thing that matters to them is the affair.


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## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

i know being a sahm is a hard job...but i always secretly looked down my nose on women with husband's working 2 jobs outside the home(in addition to all their husbandly duties IN the home) when wifey had NO jobs outside the home yet still had trouble doing their duties IN the home.


back to point of post... your reaction is normal. I think it's good you have counseling scheduled. take it slow and try not to let her apologies and tears fool you into feeling bad for being angry and hurt.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I bet her pay check helps out alot, especially for her cell phone and get some desent food.

Well consequence #1 she quits her job, consequence #2 she gets her cell turned off, and consequence #3 your stuck eating mac cheese until she finds another job.

No way in hell would I let my cheating wife continue working there. Never ever sh*t were you eat. She did, and now for the sake of the marriage she must quit.

No contact means no contact, if you are so hurt for money and are willing to sacrifice your marriage for her job, you will be paying for it down the road. I suggest you pay for it now and deal with the financial hardship.

As long as she works with this guy she will be influenced by him. It won't be long before you get the ILYBNILWY.

Sure an alcholic can walk into a bar an order a coffee, but it won't be long before they order a beer...get it?

I'm telling you the dynamics of your marriage will continue to be effected by her current employment. Thats just how it is. Think about it. If you had a cut girl that you kissed at your job would you beable to focus on your marraige, especially during the hard time.

Face it she is weak...do not let her stick her hand in the cookie jar again when you turn around.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If she was talking to her sister, you may have heard the truth, or as much truth as your wife wanted to tell your sis.

If you want more truth, ask her to take a poly

No matter what she has to leave that job---it boils down to work, vs. mge----and please don't tell me she has to work, if she were to pass away (perish that thought) you would have to make it w/out her salary


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

the guy said:


> I bet her pay check helps out alot, especially for her cell phone and get some desent food.
> 
> Well consequence #1 she quits her job, consequence #2 she gets her cell turned off, and consequence #3 your stuck eating mac cheese until she finds another job.
> 
> ...


I am very much defined by my job as many men are. That said, no job is more important than my marriage. I have been married a long while. I have had various jobs. I know the economy is tough BUT, every hour that she continues to work with this guy is significant. If my wife was caught up this way I would want her to at least take some days off until we figured out the best way for her to leave her job. If she refused I would be exposing the affair at her work. I am just that way. My marriage is the #1 priority. The reason I work to begin with.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> i know being a sahm is a hard job...but i always secretly looked down my nose on women with husband's working 2 jobs outside the home(in addition to all their husbandly duties IN the home) when wifey had NO jobs outside the home yet still had trouble doing their duties IN the home.


Wow, do you know my wife? lol


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

*Calmly, respectfully and quietly inform your wife that you will not be part of an open marriage.* Ask her if she's ready for the consequences of continued contact with the OM: Divorce and single motherhood? Working two jobs just to make ends meet? Will the OM marry her and support her like you have? She probably won't be able to answer you and that's just fine for the point is to leave her with these questions to ponder the reality that is going to be part of her life if she continues contact with the OM.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If leaving her job is not an option then suggest to have her shift hours be changed to minimize any contact with the OM.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> *Calmly, respectfully and quietly inform your wife that you will not be part of an open marriage.* Ask her if she's ready for the consequences of continued contact with the OM: Divorce and single motherhood? Working two jobs just to make ends meet? Will the OM marry her and support her like you have? She probably won't be able to answer you and that's just fine for the point is to leave her with these questions to ponder the reality that is going to be part of her life if she continues contact with the OM.


I really like this approach. It cuts to the heart of the matter.


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## Incrediblysad (Jun 29, 2011)

So last night I told her that this is your chance to tell me everything that happened so we can move forward. I felt like once it was all out in the open then I could focus more on healing instead of pondering over the unknown. So she told me stuff and said that was all of it. Then today I got a text saying that there was another thing. Supposedly the kissing was only on one night but it happened multiple times in different places. It seems like every time I talk to her its one more kiss. How can I trust her again if she keeps things from me. Is it good to know everything or should I just try to except the fact that I will never truly know and try to move forward?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Only you know if it's "good to know everything"... what WIILL BE good is her ultimately telling you, for real, everythiung you want to hear - whatever it is, no matter how bad it might hurt.

I said "this is your one chance to tell me everything" about 6 or 7 times... every time I supposedly had "it all"... and every time there became "just one other thing I remember now". When I said I was leaving, packing up, this was over, since I was never going to get the full truth -- at that point, sobbing, she proclaimed there really was actually no more to tell; I apparently had it all. 

That took 4 full days of interrogation, nearly non-stop to get to that point. Only then was I convinced I believed her... but I'll never really KNOW. 

What you need to get to is the point of believing she's told you what you want to know. BUT, you will never really know. That's a very real hurdle to R... you don't trust her. It's classic symptom of trickle-truth... the more it comes out, the less you trust her. A vicious cycle, because as she spills truth, trying to re-build trust, you trust her less because she withheld it and lied in the first place. 
You won't know fopr sure... but I'd bet you still do not have ALL the facts. Maybe or maybe not significant facts, but facts nevertheless. It just plain sucks, no two ways about it. I feel for you; been there, done that.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

She needs to quit ASAP, bro. No if's, and's, or but's about it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Kissing multiple times in different places? What are they in high school? The dreaded trickle truth. Sorry for any mind movies, but I've read so many accounts of workplace affairs where the APs practically do it anywhere they can because that's all thats available to them, like in the vehicle in the parking lot, in a closet, or they take a few hours off from work to got to a motel or their house/apartment if its close by. I read one story of a WW that always did it in her SUV in the parking lot, usually during lunch or a break.

I have to agree with the others, she has to change jobs.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Bottom line to all of this---SHE GAVE HERSELF TO ANOTHER MAN--REPEATEDLY

Whats the differance, whether she kissed, bumped and grind a dance, went to a bar and drank, and hooked up, heavily flirted, had oral, had full on----it all still lumps into one category----She gave herself to another man, disrespecting her vows, disrespecting you, your family-----she was married, and with another man---what more do you need to deal with

You can hit the whole range from D., to R., and anywhere in between---it all depends on what you want, and how she deals with what you want

Is she heavily remorseful, is she contrite, is she doing everything and more to make what is left of your mge work

Or is she still mooning for her new, lost love---we know she is still in contact, cuz she works with him, therefore sees him everyday

Let me ask you how do you deal with a cancer, you cut it out right, you get rid of it---well her lover is the cancer in your mge, and you need to get rid of him,-----SHE MUST LEAVE HER JOB----If you are gonna hurt financially by her leaving---go to her boss, and tell him what is happening, and that you are desperately trying to save your mge., and part of that is she must leave this job, and ask him if he can fix it so she can collect unemployement, then she has 99 weeks to find another job

Have boundaries been set in place----what have you done to make her accountable----you cannot treat this softly---it has to be dealt with hardline---or she will cheat again, knowing she can get away with it, cuz she already has this time!!!!!!!


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Riverside MFT said:


> One of the best threads I have read on here about overcoming an affair was http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/8698-how-we-overcame-adultery.html.
> 
> Read through Bestblu1's comments. I think one of the most important things is to forgive her ASAP. Bestblu1 talks a lot about this.


Brian, answer me why some many counsellors advocate to basically sweep it under the rug and move on, when the research into infidelity suggests that couples that talk it through have a higher success rate.

What am I missing?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Brian, answer me why some many counsellors advocate to basically sweep it under the rug and move on, when the research into infidelity suggests that couples that talk it through have a higher success rate.
> 
> What am I missing?


:iagree: I'll second that question, and await a reply. 
I don't get it, and definitely do not support it... I had similar feedback on a separate thread, not endorsing to just "get to forgiveness asap". That's just not how it works imho.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

There are both kinds of counselors. I strongly disagree with those who say the past is past. I'm certain NONE of them have ever perrsonally been through it. Beyond affairs and the author of Not Just Friends take the opposite approach. Personally I feel it is far better to sort through it. Both sides gain a much better understanding of why and recover significantly faster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

:iagree:

My cheating wife and I laid it all out on the table and addressed the issues that happened and how it started years ago.
The past is for lessons that can teach you about a better future. The past should be looked at and referred to frequently.

Or

Keep making the same mistake.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Incrediblysad said:


> That saying about "Bros before hoes" went right out the window.


He's not a bro, trust me on that. Instead of helping you bury the prostitute in the desert he's turning you in.

BTW if you need complete truth have her take a polygraph test. If she says no, then you know it was most likely a PA, if she says yes, keep her to it and make her take the test. Sometimes they'll call your bluff hoping you'll only say it and not follow through.


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## Incrediblysad (Jun 29, 2011)

So after many long days of talking I think I finally got the truth from her. No sex was involved and it was just kissing the one night. The details are not important just the fact that she finally came clean. It was hard to hear and she was scarred to tell me but I told her that I needed to know what I was trying to move forward from. Things have been going better over the last few days. I finally realized that I will never forget what happened but in order to save our marriage I need to let go of the anger and rage. Its a day by day thing I guess.


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## Tourchwood (Feb 1, 2011)

if a person had many kisses believe me it is escalated to full physical or oral. I have seen and know stories, I know women are very good showing as innocents nothing happen. since she lied, you could ask her to take lie detector exam. this way you will be certain. may be you should also test yourself for STD.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

These are your words.



Incrediblysad said:


> Then today I got a text saying that there was another thing. Supposedly the kissing was only on one night but it happened multiple times in different places. It seems like every time I talk to her its one more kiss.


It's called Trickle Truth. They can literally take the truth to the grave. They can swear on their parents lives, they can swear on their childrens lives, they can even swear on the Bible. Myself, I got the whole "God Is My Witness!" and she was very believable. 

And these multiple kisses was with her coworker. What is to be done about that? What does she plan to do? Any late meetings? Any secretly taking the day off without you knowing about it? Have you checked her pay stub? You know that APs can and do have parking lot sex when they have nowhere else to go.


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