# Men who don't want to talk



## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Are you a man whose eyes roll back, heart sinks, when your wife tells you she wants to talk? If so, tell me why. 

How do you generally feel after "talking" with your wife and how would you LIKE to feel after talking.

Further, what could your wife do/not do to make you more inclined to WANT to talk and have full and frank discussions about difficult issues or just feelings in general?

For the ladies, have you found a way of encouraging your man to talk and open up more about his feelings and how did you achieve this?

Both: what are the "No, Nos" for posiive and productive male/female communication.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I love talking to my wife. Wish we did it more. As a guy, I'm probably not always prepared to sit around talking about my "feelings" directly. I don't sit around pondering my feelings so I don't have ready answers to "feelings" questions. Still, when we talk about household business, politics, work, kids, or whatever, it's easy to lead into the "feelings" area.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Communication was one of the huge problems in my marriage. part of it was that I came from a family that just didn't talk a lot. Just the way I was brought up.

The other issue was that when we had problems in our marriage, what discussions we did have turned into lectures from my wife, usually disintegrating into her insulting me, yelling, etc... yeah, I rolled my eyes a lot when I knew it was "discussion" time.

Now things are much better. Because I communicate more, we have better conversations, even regarding difficult subjects like finances and kids (ours are grown but they are still our "kids").

Open, honest and RESPECTFUL discussions will always work.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

90% of the time I enjoy talking with my wife. It's fun, entertaining and it brings us closer together. There are times though when she wants to talk that I inwardly cringe and want to run and hide. Those times are what I refer to as her "worry moments". My wife has issues with worrying about what other people think about her. This causes her sometimes to go into worry mode and obsess about things. During those conversations she can sometimes talk for hours about a inconsequential worry. I've learned to not solve anything, but just listen and support her. But, I still cringe because I want to solve, but bite my tongue.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

We are kinda backwards. If we want to talk we go sit on the patio and my H grabs a beer and some cigarettes to help him relax while we are talking. He honestly can't talk to me when he is stressed out. But once he just relaxes ( usually after kids are in bed and he has had a good half hour to unwind) the conversation flows pretty easy.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Advocado said:


> Are you a man whose eyes roll back, heart sinks, when your wife tells you she wants to talk?


No.



> If so, tell me why.


I'm not like that myself, but it is easy to know what the man who is like that, why he is this way.

This thing, we are calling it in this thread "talking", but that is really window dressing on something to such a man, as to like you say make his eyes roll and his heart sink, what this behavior is to him, for his woman to again want to go to a dismal place he is not prepared to go, that is just this, he is avoid confronting his woman because he is not wanting to make her upset and himself feel defeated and a failure yet again.

He has not the desire to confront his woman with what he really is wanting.

So it is much like they say, "ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies".



> How do you generally feel after "talking" with your wife and how would you LIKE to feel after talking.
> 
> Further, what could your wife do/not do to make you more inclined to WANT to talk and have full and frank discussions about difficult issues or just feelings in general?


The man in this scenario is not feeling safe to reveal himself fully to his woman. 

We all know it takes energy and effort to maintain a facade, as they say, the truth will set you free, but what a risk telling the truth sometime is!!!

To overcome this, the woman, and understand this comes from the strength of the woman so as a man I am not going to insult her to tell her how to do this but only what needs to be the result, is that her man needs to see it is safe for him to reveal himself and his desires and his dreams and his fears to her. 

Until the man is feeling in this way, this will not be the case.

Whether is some weighty issue or some light issue, where there is fear of being honest, there is built up resentment. 



> For the ladies, have you found a way of encouraging your man to talk and open up more about his feelings and how did you achieve this?
> 
> Both: what are the "No, Nos" for posiive and productive male/female communication.


Even when not agreeing, to be calm and show courage during your man revealing someting innermost about him, whether in some big thing or little thing, make this always safe for him to speak this tings to you.

And this also important, reward your mans honesty if it is important to you, even when in times you again maybe not agreeing with everything, the details are not so important. 

When honesty and trust is built, the man will often then realize the end of the world does not come when he opens up to his woman, and instead of her belittle him or make him feel small, she loves his courage and openess to share with her and the emotional closeness, (important to the woman no? But also the man!) and this emotional closeness leads to, yes, more physical closeness and that is the holy grail to the man!!!

So in this way, to make it safe to be open, building trust, and building respect, and building emotional connection and sexual attraction. In each of these things, are all of these things. 

These all are part of this wonderful and boggling concept of communication and the relationship and the marriage between the good man and woman!


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

BBW is on to something here.

Right now I am totally shut down, because my wife punishes me when she doesn't like what I think/feel. I get frostiness or withdrawn behavior. The conclusion I've come to is that a) my wife doesn't want to know, she doesn't care about my feelings so much as how I make her feel; b) she has no idea that this is the case. So periodically she'll ask if "I'm okay" assume thinking she is reaching out to me. But I know it's a trick question because if I say, "no I'm not, I'm feeling this way" I'll get a bunch of defensiveness and the conversation will quickly turn from being about me to being about her. I've learned to confront her on this: "I understand you feel x, but I thought you asked about how I feel." But it's exhausting and just not worth it. I come away everytime regretting it and feeling like I've fallen for the same trick over and over again.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

AFEH? EH is for Emotional Honesty. That's what I need, want, like and love. I didn't get emotional honesty. For some it's seen as Confrontation. To avoid EH people deceive and then lie. It's very unhealthy. Far better to be EH, only then does a person Know Where They Stand.

True communication starts with honesty and ends with honesty.

Fabulous topic Advocado, it is perhaps one of the most complex on earth.

Please tell me why you asked your questions ...

Bob


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BigBadWolf said:


> her man needs to see it is safe for him to reveal himself and his desires and his dreams and his fears to her. .......
> 
> Even when not agreeing, to be calm and show courage during your man revealing someting innermost about him, whether in some big thing or little thing, make this always safe for him to speak this tings to you.......
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Love all of this said by BIg Bad Wolf. My husband is not a big talker, but he never tries to get away from me, rolls his eyes, or even avoids our talks, NEVER. He is there with me, he listens, he responds. 

I know a good part of the reason IS because he feels SAFE to share ALL with me openly no matter what, even things that may sting or hurt, or I just may not want to hear at the time. 

We have found, over the years, the few times he tried to spare my feelings, something was not adding up (for me). That this was indeed counter-productive to what he intended. I struggled with some things -cause of his trying to spare my feelings. Ended up, my mind would conjur up way worse things, so when he finally came out with the real issues, it led to me being far more happier than what I was thinking in my own head. 

So for us, he has learned - with me, the raw openness is simply what I want & need. And I am True to NOT chew him out, rant at him, not for honesty. Never. *I praise that *-even if it stings sometimes. He used to hide Porn from me back in the day, and I did put him on a guilt trip a number of times for that. Now I am so much more understanding, I see it all in a new light and happen to enjoy it myself , so how can I judge him. 

So we have come a ways in this kind of pure openness with each other. I have always been that way, but for him, he has gotten much better. ANd I love it so. 

I can attest, the better the communication & openess & feeling Safe with each other to bare it ALL, share it ALL, the more happening it is in the bedroom, just like Big Bad Wolf said.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Many thanks ALL.


unbelievable said:


> I love talking to my wife. ....


I would have to say that my man doesn’t like to talk so its encouraging to know that there are men out there who do. 



Chris Taylor said:


> ... what discussions we did have turned into lectures from my wife, usually disintegrating into her insulting me, yelling, etc... yeah, I rolled my eyes a lot when I knew it was "discussion" time. ...


So was you wife aware of what she was doing or were the insults etc. unintentional on her part? (not that I'm excusing this, I should add). 



seeking sanity said:


> ... So periodically she'll ask if "I'm okay" assume thinking she is reaching out to me. But I know it's a trick question because if I say, "no I'm not, I'm feeling this way" I'll get a bunch of defensiveness and the conversation will quickly turn from being about me to being about her. I've learned to confront her on this: "I understand you feel x, but I thought you asked about how I feel." But it's exhausting and just not worth it. I come away everytime regretting it and feeling like I've fallen for the same trick over and over again.


I like to think I am a good listener; that most of the time I believe I try really hard to understand husband’s point of view but I do always follow up with my side of things after he has had his say. I volunteer my side of things, he doesn't normally actually ask me about my feelings, perhaps because he knows I'll tell him without his asking or perhaps because he doesn't want to hear it. Reading your post makes me ponder my own motives in asking him about how he feels.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> ... he is avoid confronting his woman because he is not wanting to make her upset and himself feel defeated and a failure yet again.
> 
> He has not the desire to confront his woman with what he really is wanting.
> 
> ...




Thanks BBW - VERY interesting points here and in following posts about honesty, feeling safe, and praising honesty even when it hurts. Leading me to question my belief that I am an easy going, approachable person. Most people tell me that I am this way, but come to think of it I recall my partner once saying that I was easy going with everybody else, but not with him! At the time, I took this lightly, assuming he was joking. Perhaps not!

Given that my man is one who rolls his eyes (of course he tries to hide this) when I say I would like to talk, I can only conclude that he does not feel safe to talk. 

I wonder what would happen if I were to just listen actively, only speaking to check I have understood him properly and be appreciative of his openness and leave it at that – i.e. NOT give my side unless prompted by him because if he is not in a place where he is receptive of hearing my side, there’s really not much point in my offering it up at that time. 

However, if I’m honest, when I want to talk I want us both to have roughly equal opportunity to speak but he tends to dominate the conversation (which is ironic given that he was reluctant to talk in the first place) and this can be frustrating.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

I am happy to see this thread continuing to be really full of very golden advice and thoughts and sharing, so I will try to continue this without stepping in the way.

On this subject you are speaking, talking about a woman's feelings, you know in the past for a man to ask advice on this I will tell him this, very bluntly to him as a man and so I hope this is not offensive to the woman's ears.

I will tell him when a woman is asking you to talk on your feelings, it will be far far far more important for you to instead do this, stop what you are doing and listen mightily, for the more important task is to hear what she is wanting to communicate to you about something in the relationship that is not to her satisfaction.

(For I will also say to often take a woman's words with a grain of salt but instead watch the actions, but this is ouit the door if she is sharing her feelings, because a woman is deadly serious and honest and to the core when she speaks of her feelings, the good man is wise to pay attention!) 

This is not saying, like so many men are wanting to do, that a woman is playing games. QUite the contrary, for it is nothing uncourteous if someone needs to discuss something, to give the opportunity to share.

But exactly this, if a man is not necessarily in tune with this, he will roll his eyes maybe, as if he is thinking "here we go again with the games", because as a man, we are knowing amongst ourselves maybe in the locker room or the golf course or whatever, the way to communicate is to be polite but be up front and direct.

And this is so often missing in the good mans understanding of commnicating with a woman, that a woman communicating with her man (know I am speaking to the good man and woman in sexual relationship and not speaking of men and women in business or friendships or such tings) that a woman is by her nature not supposed to be so direct, as this would be as relating to her man as a another man, and this is not in any way flowing from sexual attraction.

So the irony is this, the good man will often say 99 percent of the time he is wanting more sexual relationship with his woman, yet this same man will say "why does my woman play games" or "why won't my woman just come right out to say what is on her mind"!

Unnerstand just this, it is to be feminine that flows naturaly from deep within a woman in how she relates to the good man she is desiring, and to be feminine is just this, she is not expecting to be as a sledgehammer and hit her man over the head, instead she is to be subtle and proper and graceful and feminine in her communications, for where would be the excitement and mystery and sexual tension be any other way.

I dare any man to be satisfied with a woman that presents to him no challenge, no mystery, and no feminine grace and subtlety! What a miserable man that would be! 

So also I would tell the good man just this, and again I am hoping this is not offensive to the woman's ears but to communicate this to your husband in the ways that you will do best, even though the language is often "tell me how you feel", instead understand in the mind of the good man, because he is a man, he is not categorizing and prioritizing his emotions necessarily as feelings.

Please be open to this, not as sounding sexist but as trying to be honest as this thread is demanding, to really wrap your mind around this with openness even if you are not agreeing.

For consider this, what we in the English language are saying "feelings", well that is at the nuts and bolts a reaction. ANd a reaction, in so many words, would be as if English were more like Spanish and would make some words feminine and some words masculine, "feelings" being a reaction would be a feminine word, for a man is not going to without a great deal of effort and manipulation and even some form of dishonesty be communicating his perception of the world as his feelings.

It is much more accurate, to the good man if you are wanting to know how he is seeing the world, more importantly maybe how he is seeing his world and even his relatioship with his woman or his children or his career or any such things, instead ask him in so many words instead this:

Ask him what he is desiring, what he is wanting.

Do this, and the man is now communicating his thoughts, ideas, (and yes feelings even!) in the structure of language flowing from his natural categoriziation of the world.

For the good man travels through his life, motivated not seeing the world has his reactions an feelings to the world, but as his desires that he wants from the world, his world, and what he wants to make of his world and therefore is spurring him on to his plans and schemes and what is important to him and what he neglects and what he takes care of, all these things, his world, is categorized by his desires.

For the woman to wants to know the innermost workings of the man she loves, instead to ask about feelings instead get the man to communicate his desires.

I hope this is helpful to you and the many good men and women that will benefit from this good thread.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> ... For the woman to wants to know the innermost workings of the man she loves, instead to ask about feelings instead get the man to communicate his desires. ...


Thanks BBW. To aid clarification would you, or anyone else please, like to give a basic example of how this would work in practice. 



AFEH said:


> ...
> 
> Please tell me why you asked your questions ...
> 
> Bob


Sorry - I don't think I responded to this specifically.

In a nutshell I feel we are not as close emotionally as we could be and frequently misunderstand each other. I think not talking enough and not communicating effectively has often led to unnecessary unease, resentments and anxiety in the relationship. 

I also believe we have the potential to be blissfully happy for the most part, and I want to progress to this rather than end up drifting apart.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Advocado said:


> In a nutshell I feel we are not as close emotionally as we could be and frequently misunderstand each other. I think not talking enough and not communicating effectively has often led to unnecessary unease, resentments and anxiety in the relationship.
> 
> I also believe we have the potential to be blissfully happy for the most part, and I want to progress to this rather than end up drifting apart.


I can really empathise with your motivations for asking your questions. I understand where you are at as I’ve been there. I could “generalise” in my answer and say that I think a lot of woman don’t communicate, they talk. And when they talk it’s a monologue that the husband is just supposed to listen to without interruption. My understanding is that’s the way women communicate to each other, they just tell problems, neither interruptions for clarification or for solutions are needed or required from their friend. I did well if I listened to that monologue for about 5 minutes. I simply couldn’t see the point of why I was there listening. After 5 minutes I’d already forgotten the first things said so again I couldn’t see the point.

I learnt communication skills in my career. I was a sales guy who sold millions of dollars worth of high tech products to major corporations. But all the communication skills I learnt in my career didn’t help me in my marriage. Why? There were a few reasons. First off were emotions, both mine and my wife’s. There were emotions in selling, but nothing like as deep or as strong. Secondly in work certain etiquettes are observed and adhered to, it’s not the same in the home.

Good communication does depend a lot on a person’s personality. Mine for example is open, honest and pretty direct, extroverted. My wife had a very closed personality and rarely spoke about what was going on inside of her, introverted. It often helped me to think of her as an onion, one that I’d never see the inner layers of. My wife seriously believed she could get to know a person through “small talk”.

To get help and solve your problems I think you need to spend time with someone who can help you both with communication. That person will be able to see the dynamics between the two of you and coach you as you go along. It is serious stuff, so serious it’s worth investing money in.

Bob


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Advocado said:


> Thanks BBW. To aid clarification would you, or anyone else please, like to give a basic example of how this would work in practice.


It may take a lifetime to cover this, but for starters, understand that mostly talk is cheap and overrated and misleading. 

It is far closer to the truth to instead listen to your mans behavior and body language, and important to know a man may or may not pay attnetion to words you use, but will quicker notice a touch or lack of touch.

Is the man responding to your touch? Is the man looking at you or averting his eyes? A man is a visual creature, use this for communication. 

And for words, when he speaks, to tell you something about his day, sure, enjoy the details, but pay CLOSE attention to anything along the lines of "I want..." OR "I wish..." OR "I need..." as these things are words that are the windows to his feelings so to say.

And simply this, ask him what he wants, what he needs. This is much more inviting and less threatening to him than "let's talk".





> Sorry - I don't think I responded to this specifically.
> 
> In a nutshell I feel we are not as close emotionally as we could be and frequently misunderstand each other. I think not talking enough and not communicating effectively has often led to unnecessary unease, resentments and anxiety in the relationship.
> 
> I also believe we have the potential to be blissfully happy for the most part, and I want to progress to this rather than end up drifting apart.


The man will communicate as much physically as ever with words! Remember, communicationg is critical, but only every now and then are words necessary.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Can’t say I go along with you there BBW. All men communicate the same way? All women communicate the same way? I agree “some” men are visual, but is it “most” men?

I used to use five different personality types, Avoiders, Achievers, Power Bosses, Manipulators and Affiliators. All five have very different communication styles and to understand what their problems were and work with them I had to adapt myself to their communication style. Myers Briggs have 16 different personality types, a whole different ballgame of communication styles.

Within a marriage though so many other factors come in to prevent good communication. Stonewalling is well known, walking away from the discussion, slamming doors that type of thing. Some people quite literally think they’re “perfect” and will never accept responsibility for their actions. Some literally hide their emotions, they neither like to show them or talk about them and in that way are somewhat two faced.

When communication in and of itself is a problem in a marriage personally I think the only way a couple can improve their communication is by working with a communication coach. That way the coach can get to understand their personality types and help them both communicate better and get to know what is really going on inside their partner.

There is a Golden Rule though for me and in that I agree with you. “Seek first to understand and the seek to be understood” has always held me in good stead. So yes, it’s questions that should be asked in order to gain understanding. First we need to formulate those questions and then ask them in an appropriate way at an appropriate time. Some say the quality of our life is dependent upon the quality of the questions we ask. But when we do ask the questions it’s better done with a really open mind as we may well be truly surprised by the answers we get.

Bob


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Advocado said:


> Are you a man whose eyes roll back, heart sinks, when your wife tells you she wants to talk? If so, tell me why.
> 
> How do you generally feel after "talking" with your wife and how would you LIKE to feel after talking.
> 
> ...


That's 100% my cup of tea......food network, HGTV, going shopping......I don't fit well with "dudes" hunting, guns, motorcycles, sitting around drinking beer, 
*Blech Blech*

Talking with the wife, date nights, movies, walks


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

It is good to not agree, for this is showing the discussion is beneficial and not a monologue for static ideas! 

So I hear what you are saying, if correctly, that you are saying I am maybe too general. ANd that is a fair opinion, because indeed I will go above and beyond to make very bold and very blunt and yes very categorically blanket statements about the sexual behavior of men and women.

But I do this on purpose, because in life I find the opposite error is too often done, to make simple issues complicated, because we as humans like to stir up the silt in the water because we want to be reminded we are unique and special individuals.

But the reality is sometimes not quite so romantic. So no we are not always the unique and special snowflake, but a simply a man in a long line of good men, or simply a woman in a long line of good women.

So we may make fantastic notions of love and responsibility and morals and ethics and values and all these fine ideas showing how diverse and special we all are, but the reality is at the core of the philosophy of my aproach in these matters, humans are very sexual and speak a very common but very misunderstood sexual language.

My bold optimism is simply that in most ways we are far more alike than we are different.

So I will take the opposite approach, maybe extreme but maybe simply just a balance, to allow the silt to settle and the water to become clear, and let the simple and direct course reveal itself even if always not so pretty or political correct or even be offensive to the ears or preconceptions.

These things are often startling and blunt and honest, and in our day to day business and relatinships we are not accustomed to this.

So I also hear what you are saying, in the Myers Briggs and similar and yes, I am knowing something of these women's philosophy built on personality types. 

My opinion on these things, however trivial and unimportant, is very skeptical, as woould be much like astrology to be vague enough to fit where needed, a placebo that is good to sell teambuilding exercises and management development seminars but not so good at diagnosing and fixing sexual attraction!

Always just this, our relationships and marriage, so much now as ever before are sexually motivated. 

Therefore sexual attraction is needing to be communicated and communicated well for us to be happy in these marriage relatinships.

And know that sexual attraction has it's own language for communication, very ancient and very primal. This language sure, it uses an alphabet, so to say, but of behavior and emotion to make the words, as oposed to the sounds coming from our mouths that we place so much value in today!

Very good discussion. 



AFEH said:


> Can’t say I go along with you there BBW. All men communicate the same way? All women communicate the same way? I agree “some” men are visual, but is it “most” men?
> 
> I used to use five different personality types, Avoiders, Achievers, Power Bosses, Manipulators and Affiliators. All five have very different communication styles and to understand what their problems were and work with them I had to adapt myself to their communication style. Myers Briggs have 16 different personality types, a whole different ballgame of communication styles.
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Around eighty percent of what’s being communicated is in the body language, tone of voice used etc., twenty percent in the words used for the communication. If the words aren’t agreeing with the body language that’s when we get truly confused. If we want to truly know what the other is thinking and feeling then it’s good to get a working knowledge of body language.

Marriage is not all about sexual behaviour. In fact Advocado’s original questions weren’t based on sex at all. It’s your good self that’s put the sex spin on it. Maybe you mean gender rather than sex? Partners can have an exceedingly good sex life and still fail miserably in their communication. It is their lack of effective communication that is often the catalyst for the failure of their marriage. It was for mine eventually.

From Advocado
“In a nutshell I feel we are not as close emotionally as we could be and frequently misunderstand each other. I think not talking enough and not communicating effectively has often led to unnecessary unease, resentments and anxiety in the relationship. I also believe we have the potential to be blissfully happy for the most part, and I want to progress to this rather than end up drifting apart”.

Nothing about sex there! But of course most males and most females have very different ways of communicating with the opposite sex and with one another. It is a gender based problem in a marriage.

Everyone is absolutely unique! It’s what makes the world such an interesting place. In fact BBW you go out of your way to make yourself unique!

“Women's philosophy built on personality types”. ??? It was Carol Jung who came up with personality types. Basically he created the words and concepts of the introvert and extrovert on which Myers Briggs based their work. But he had just six types, it was Myers Briggs who came up with the sixteen. Latest thoughts are there should be 256,000 types or some such number.

In essence extroverts are open books while introverts are closed books where very personal things like inner most thoughts and feelings are concerned. The extrovert can appear to be horribly “blunt” while the introvert “always withholding”.

All this can be really confusing when all we want to do is know what our partner is thinking and feeling, somehow get our partner to know what it is that we’re thinking and feeling and then hopefully move on to resolutions where we can live in relative peace and harmony within ourselves and with one another. Advocado’s trying to achieve just that so that …..

“In a nutshell I feel we are not as close emotionally as we could be and frequently misunderstand each other. I think not talking enough and not communicating effectively has often led to unnecessary unease, resentments and anxiety in the relationship. I also believe we have the potential to be blissfully happy for the most part, and I want to progress to this rather than end up drifting apart”.

And because we are all so unique I think the only way she’s going to achieve that is to get some communication training with her husband and a coach …..

Bob


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

As an interrogator I can tell you that people naturally like to talk. When they don't, it's normally because barriers have been erected or they have been trained not to. If a woman hears her husband's words and then argues, belittles, betrays his secrets, shows indifference or a host of other negative responses, she is training him to shut up. Guys don't naturally sit around talking to each other about their feelings. We aren't wired to talk just for the sake of talking or validating our own experiences. If a woman tells us about a problem, we feel compelled to fix the problem. Women can talk with each other for hours, often at the same time, and to a guy, the conversation is pointless. Nothing is planned, nothing is solved, no questions answered. To us, that sort of talk is just noise. To a guy, if a response is only going to evoke an argument or a negative emotional response, it just makes more sense to say nothing. 
Lots of men post on this forum and they speak of deeply personal things. We obviously are willing and eager to communicate. Still, most of us (me included) write things here that we haven't attempted or were unsuccessful at communicating to our wives. 
Trust is crucial. I say things to my wife in private. Could be an embarrassing story, could be something sexy. I hear her tell other people words I meant for only her! She doesn't think it's a big deal but it is to me. To me, that's just part of intimacy, two people sharing secrets, creating a tiny circle that nobody else enters. When I was in Iraq, I wrote her the ultimate romantic letter. I spent hours on it. I'm no Don Juan, but I put my heart into that letter like I had never put in another. This letter would have blown the knickers off a dead nun. Wife did two things. First, she gave me positively no reaction to the letter. Secondly, she actually read this deeply personal love letter to at least two co-workers. She said it was because it was so beautiful and meaningful and she wanted to show her coworkers what a great man she had. "Hey, Clueless", tell ME and then let's keep it our little secret!" She hasn't received a sequel and she likely never will. 
My grandparents are 93. I've never heard one say anything personal, mean, critical, or embarrassing about the other, not even to other family members. They communicate so well, they rarely even use words anymore. Just a touch on the hand or a glance and they know what the other means. One would rather die than disrespect the other. They've been married over 70 years.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Unbelievable
I agree with what you say. It is generalising and because of that it’s a good place to start. There are immense differences in how males and females communicate. A lot of it is to do with how the brain is “wired”, women have far more connections between the right and left sides of the brain than men do. Women can listen to the radio, answer the phone, cook a meal, listen out for the toddlers, while doing the ironing type of thing. Sorry ladies generalising again but just an example for illustration. Phone rings? More than likely a man will turn the radio off before he picks the phone up, toddlers calling, sorry didn’t hear them. It’s a lot to do with how the brain is connected. Our brains are wired differently for a reason.

But then in women we find extroverts as well as introverts and the ball game changes again.

It’s interesting Unbelievable that you’re an interrogator. And that even with your training and hands on experience even you have problems with communications with your wife. Is that true?

I’m 9 months separated from my wife who I was with for 42 years. Communication in the times when we seriously needed to communicate was a massive problem. Even now I try every now and then to communicate with her but it doesn’t work. At the end of the day poor communication was one of the reasons I couldn’t live with her anymore.

I’ve even just started to learn about confabulation, something which investigators are I think very aware of? It’s a whole new subject for me and as I can see it it’s what happens when issues aren’t addressed at the time they come up. I’ve a feeling it may be at the heart of Advocado's problems.

Bob


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

AFEH said:


> ... “Seek first to understand and the seek to be understood” has always held me in good stead. ...
> Bob


I really like the sound of this. 

As to communication coaching, I’d love for us both to get some but unfortunately H has always been averse to any form of counselling. 


I had a PM recommending a book entitled "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" and see it has some good reviews. Am wondering if anyone on here has read it?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

The phrase is from Steven Covey’s “Seven Habits of Highly Effective People”.

Aren’t the words we use just so important. I could pull your leg a bit and say “Your husband is absolutely correct. You do not need counselling”. Think of the possible negative emotions generated by that word counselling. “Yeh right oh I’m going to sit in front of some counsellor I don’t even know and tell him about my problems!”.

Now think of the positive emotions generated by the word coaching. Coaching is not there per se to talk about problems. It’s there for self improvement, this time it’s improved communications. Now think where else your husband may think those skills useful outside as well as inside your marriage.

Of course most counsellors and coaches do the very same things. But just with maybe a different approach to how they do it.

Bob


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## examinerdeby (Aug 22, 2010)

I came in here because my husband is one who doesn't like to talk while I am rather 'chatty'. This is just who we both are. I've never been a person who asks anyone about their 'feelings' because I think that if someone wants to share them with me, they will. I also never ask people what they are thinking...that is private as well unless they choose to share.

If there is an issue we need to discuss, I start out by bluntly saying whatever it is that needs attending to. I don't sugar coat it. He deals better with directness. If it's an issue I believe to be important and he doesn't, then I do get annoyed and let him know that as well and I state the reasons it is important. 

What I don't do though, is sit there and nag. This doesn't work well at all. If he is unwilling to discuss things then, I tell him to think about it a while and we'll get back to the issue later. With him, this works well.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think like someone else said here, within a marriage privacy is in the bathroom. Secrecy should not exist and when it does because a spouse will not tell you what they are thinking and feeling that’s a massive red flag that something is very wrong in the marriage. That secrecy between the partners does indeed exist.

Anybody else other than my wife doesn’t want to tell me what they're thinking and feeling? I probably wouldn’t even ask them unless I thought they were in trouble. They don’t want to tell me, that’s ok by me, it’s not my business. My wife’s “business” is … or was.

Bob


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## examinerdeby (Aug 22, 2010)

AFEH, I don't equate the fact that my husband doesn't regularly share thoughts and feelings with "secrecy". It's just who he is. I also think that even married people have the right to their own thoughts and feelings without having to talk about them all the time. Now, this would be different if I thought he were cheating or doing something illegal etc. 
I also have to tease you a bit when I say...privacy in the bathroom??? What's that? lol


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

examinerdeby said:


> AFEH, I don't equate the fact that my husband doesn't regularly share thoughts and feelings with "secrecy". It's just who he is. I also think that even married people have the right to their own thoughts and feelings without having to talk about them all the time. Now, this would be different if I thought he were cheating or doing something illegal etc.
> I also have to tease you a bit when I say...privacy in the bathroom??? What's that? lol


I guess some leave the door open while they’re doing their business, not all made the same way.

I’m a little bit with you on the privacy of thoughts, there’s a lot of difference though between secrecy and privacy.

Put it is this way. You know something’s troubling them, you can see it by the way they’re behaving and their body language. In that respect you know for a fact that something is troubling them but you don’t know what it is. Over time you’ve seen some behaviour that gives you cause for concern about your relationship and marriage. They are very quite, you look at them and ask them what they’re thinking. They wont tell you? Then they have a secret they do not want you to know. It’s a massive red flag.

Me? I think a person has the right to know what their spouse is thinking. If they’re asked but wont tell then doubt and uncertainty, perhaps even insecurity enters the relationship. Did with me.

Bob


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