# "Just friends"



## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

I have read quite a few comments on here about people saying it isn't possible for a man and a woman to be "just friends". I was wondering how many people feel this way.

For me personally, I don't see it as being true for everyone. Sure for some, this may be the case, but certainly not for all.
Three of my closest friends(out of four), are all men, including my best friend. I have never had any desire for a romantic relationship, or even had the slightest bit of a problem in our friendship.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I suppose it depends on the amount of time one spends with that friend vs their spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

It's possible but depends upon the boundaries of those involved.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok let me rephrase that... it depends on how much one invests themselves in the relationship with their spouse vs the relationship with said friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have 2 male friends. We were close 'once upon a time'..never sexual.

I see them maybe once a year. Maybe. H comes along for dinner. It's nice. They bring their gf...

I've never had to justify my friendships to my husband as being "just friends"...Hell, he'd more question my relationship with females that I talk to ALL THE TIME...than those guys.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol that girl!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

meson said:


> It's possible but depends upon the boundaries of those involved.


I agree with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I have 2 male friends. We were close 'once upon a time'..never sexual.
> 
> I see them maybe once a year. Maybe. H comes along for dinner. It's nice. They bring their gf...
> 
> I've never had to justify my friendships to my husband as being "just friends"...Hell, he'd more question my relationship with females that I talk to ALL THE TIME...than those guys.


LOL, sometimes I have to question my husband's relationship with his partner at work. They spend 50 hours a week together, sitting in a truck alone, we go on vacations as a family with him and his wife, they text each other constantly when they aren't together. I always joke that James is his girlfriend.:smthumbup:


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

meson said:


> It's possible but depends upon the boundaries of those involved.


I can't say that there has ever been an instances where we have thought about or discussed boundaries. Most people would probably think the relationship I have with my male friends is a little strange.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Personally, I don't really think men and women can be "just friends". I've had numerous male friends in the past and it typically always ends up with one developing feelings for the other. My best guy friend in high school told me he had fallen in love with me after we graduated. My husband was only "a friend" in college, but that obviously changed. I know numerous people who have had their relationships fall apart because they have fallen for their friend. It always starts out the same way, with them being "just friends", and then it turns into more. It's a reason why my husband and I have a rule for not allowing one another to hang out with someone of the opposite sex alone. There is just too much room for temptation, even if they are "just friends".


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Tikii said:


> I have read quite a few comments on here about people saying it isn't possible for a man and a woman to be "just friends". I was wondering how many people feel this way.
> 
> For me personally, I don't see it as being true for everyone. Sure for some, this may be the case, but certainly not for all.
> Three of my closest friends(out of four), are all men, including my best friend. I have never had any desire for a romantic relationship, or even had the slightest bit of a problem in our friendship.


 Women seem to think differently on this but it's true for the vast majority of straight men. I'm not talking about work associates here. Friends are people that you spend time with outside of work doing voluntary activities. If a male is spending time with you on a regular basis he's secretly hoping he can hit it. This is why men get so pissed about their spouses male friend. They know exactly what he's thinking. If your wondering why your friends don't say or try anything its because they might be a bit beta or just waiting for the right opportunity. I've seen guys foolishly wait around for years to make their move. I never understood it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I will say, I won't make male friends NOW. I have those two from before...and that's it. I have had other male friends, but the sexual line was always cross usually with making out, etc.

Now, I have no reason to meet and befriend a new male in my life.

THAT, to me, is bizarre and an EA, etc. Why would I need to befriend a new male in my life? Same as if H got a new female friend. and was talking/chatting/texting with her as "a friend". omg. heads would roll.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Personally, I don't really think men and women can be "just friends". I've had numerous male friends in the past and it typically always ends up with one developing feelings for the other. My best guy friend in high school told me he had fallen in love with me after we graduated. My husband was only "a friend" in college, but that obviously changed. I know numerous people who have had their relationships fall apart because they have fallen for their friend. It always starts out the same way, with them being "just friends", and then it turns into more. It's a reason why my husband and I have a rule for not allowing one another to hang out with someone of the opposite sex alone. There is just too much room for temptation, even if they are "just friends".


My husband and I were "just friends" in high school/college. We never developed feelings for each other, we basically always had them. With my male friends, there is no desire for a relationship, or any type of romantic feelings. I would be extremely hurt if my husband wouldn't allow me to hang out with my friends because he couldn't trust me to remain faithful. I can honestly say there has never been any temptation when it comes to being alone with male friends.


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## madwitt3 (Mar 2, 2012)

ok this is hard. My partner had a "friendship "with a woman for years until in it turned to pysical> it was an emotional affair at first. playing folling around for 4 years then sex.I agree with the last post. depends how honest you are and if you start lying to your spouse about the relationship, something has to give. i have had platonic relationships as a woman. That doesnt mean he doesnt want you, or hopes? Depends on what your needs are at the time, if you need attention or friendship? once that moment comes were you need that attention because of a fight something going wrong in your relationship. You lose and your friend becomes a crutch. hopefully not a sexual one. Because your hoping help from him may stray you in the wrong direction instead of dealing with your relationship you invested into.its a difficult situation that can put you at risk! Trad carefully is my opinion.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. One of my guy friends is an artist...and hangs out with a lot of artists. In an artistic way. And wears tight pants :rofl: And tells me I'm fabulous.

The other one is into this guru with his girlfriend and I had to block their religious crap from facebook. Dude.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Women seem to think differently on this but it's true for the vast majority of straight men. I'm not talking about work associates here. Friends are people that you spend time with outside of work doing voluntary activities. *If a male is spending time with you on a regular basis he's secretly hoping he can hit it. *This is why men get so pissed about their spouses male friend. They know exactly what he's thinking. If your wondering why your friends don't say or try anything its because they might be a bit beta or just waiting for the right opportunity. I've seen guys foolishly wait around for years to make their move. I never understood it.


I completely and totally disagree with this. My male friends, save for one, have no desire to have anything more than a friendship with me. I know, you are going to say that I cannot be sure of that, but I am 99% sure. They have wives of their own, who have no problem with our relationship, that they love very much. The one that would like to "hit it", is my best friend's on again off again boyfriend, who is as of very recently my step cousin. Two very off limit relationships, that would never be worth him pursuing anything with me, or even thinking about attempting anything. I've known since I was 15 that he has always found me to be attractive, and he loves me-but not romantically. He wouldn't act on his desire, even if he was given the free and open opportunity, because he is also a close friend with my husband as well. Most of my male close friends are also friends with my husband. My husband has no issue with me being friends with, or alone with any of them.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What was your meaning on posting this? Is there a problem with your friends? Just curious.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well in all honesty... I would be weirded out if my spouse was ok with me being "alone" with a male friend... to me... its not about him not trusting me... it would be about him not trusting the other guy... at least that's how my spouse worded it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Speaking as a guy it does suck to be stuck in the friend zone....just saying.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Tikii said:


> My husband and I were "just friends" in high school/college. We never developed feelings for each other, we basically always had them. With my male friends, there is no desire for a relationship, or any type of romantic feelings. I would be extremely hurt if my husband wouldn't allow me to hang out with my friends because he couldn't trust me to remain faithful. I can honestly say there has never been any temptation when it comes to being alone with male friends.


You may not have feelings for them, but how do you know if they have feelings for you? I've learned from a number of male friends over the years that they had feelings for me that I had not known about when we were spending time together. I watched a few of them stop talking to me after I got engaged, off the market. It happens often, which is why I don't see men and women being "just friends".


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

[


that_girl said:


> I will say, I won't make male friends NOW. I have those two from before...and that's it. I have had other male friends, but the sexual line was always cross usually with making out, etc.
> 
> Now, I have no reason to meet and befriend a new male in my life.
> 
> THAT, to me, is bizarre and an EA, etc. Why would I need to befriend a new male in my life? Same as if H got a new female friend. and was talking/chatting/texting with her as "a friend". omg. heads would roll.


I gain male friends regularly

All of my male friends, including my close male friends, except for two, are men that I met and befriended after my relationship with my husband started. I cetainly wouldn't say there is an EA there with any of them, even the three closest ones. 

My husband also befriends new women regularly, most through work, but women that he will text regularly. I know that a few of them were interested romantically, he denied, but those friendships ended. I know it isn't possible for all people, but I don't believe it is impossible as many claim.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How ofte to you and your guys friend have sleep overs and have pillow fights?

How often do you help your guy friends change there oil or help with a brake job?

Do you all go hunting together and try on clothes?

Or does the social circle consist of sitting around a coffee house or at the clubs?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, that wouldn't fly here. I'm sure my husband wouldn't mind if I did, but I would mind because I know myself...and if I'm befriending men, it's because I think they're worth my time....*wink wink*. If I'm befriending men, my friends would tackle me to slap the crap out of me. 

It's good to know oneself. lol. However, since meeting H, I haven't had the need to meet new men. It was a wonderful and rare situation to find myself in.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Anonymous07 said:


> You may not have feelings for them, but how do you know if they have feelings for you? I've learned from a number of male friends over the years that they had feelings for me that I had not known about when we were spending time together. I watched a few of them stop talking to me after I got engaged, off the market. It happens often, which is why I don't see men and women being "just friends".


This is a classic examble!!!!!


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well... if it works for you tiki that's great... but for many others... these friendships with people of the opposite sex turns into affairs right quick and in a hurry... regardless if the people involved are married or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Tikii said:


> I can't say that there has ever been an instances where we have thought about or discussed boundaries. Most people would probably think the relationship I have with my male friends is a little strange.


Not saying yours,but marriages can get rocky from time to time and people have turned to friends to fill emotional needs when they feel they are not being heard at home.Without boundaries they can find themselves deep in an EA with the person who is listening,siding with their point of view and consoling them.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

that_girl said:


> What was your meaning on posting this? Is there a problem with your friends? Just curious.


I was reading through posts on here, and it was a thought that came to me. I personally have great experiences with male friends, and wanted to know if there were others who felt the same. Plus, I figured it would be a good discussion for a boring Thursday night.



Gaia said:


> Well in all honesty... I would be weirded out if my spouse was ok with me being "alone" with a male friend... to me... its not about him not trusting me... it would be about him not trusting the other guy... at least that's how my spouse worded it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The way my husband and I see it, if you trust your spouse, it doesn't matter if you trust anyone else. You trust them to make the right decisions, regardless of what anyone else does.



Anonymous07 said:


> You may not have feelings for them, but how do you know if they have feelings for you? I've learned from a number of male friends over the years that they had feelings for me that I had not known about when we were spending time together. I watched a few of them stop talking to me after I got engaged, off the market. It happens often, which is why I don't see men and women being "just friends".


I know that they don't. The way they act, the way our conversations go etc. There are always going to be some emotions involved with friendships, but not always romantic feelings. There is something that draws us to our friends. I can say that I didn't lose any male friends after getting engaged. Most of them were thrilled for me. Not to mention, their wives are all gorgeous, and I look like an ogre compared to them. They'd be out of their minds to lose what they have to try to get me...lol.

I have always been one of the boys, I guess that's why it's so easy for me to have mostly male friends.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Yea, that wouldn't fly here. I'm sure my husband wouldn't mind if I did, but I would mind because I know myself...and if I'm befriending men, it's because I think they're worth my time....*wink wink*. If I'm befriending men, my friends would tackle me to slap the crap out of me.
> 
> It's good to know oneself. lol. However, since meeting H, I haven't had the need to meet new men. It was a wonderful and rare situation to find myself in.


Can I be your friend? LOL


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well the way my spouse and I see it is... going off alone with an opposite sex friend isn't a trustworthy action... but that's just us I suppose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Tikii said:


> I completely and totally disagree with this. My male friends, save for one, have no desire to have anything more than a friendship with me. I know, you are going to say that I cannot be sure of that, but I am 99% sure. They have wives of their own, who have no problem with our relationship, that they love very much. The one that would like to "hit it", is my best friend's on again off again boyfriend, who is as of very recently my step cousin. Two very off limit relationships, that would never be worth him pursuing anything with me, or even thinking about attempting anything. I've known since I was 15 that he has always found me to be attractive, and he loves me-but not romantically. He wouldn't act on his desire, even if he was given the free and open opportunity, because he is also a close friend with my husband as well. Most of my male close friends are also friends with my husband. My husband has no issue with me being friends with, or alone with any of them.


Even if they are in a relationship/married, I still wouldn't feel comfortable with my husband spending time with another woman alone. You never know what people are capable of in a bad situation. I trust my husband, but I don't trust others. 

I had always thought of my cousin as a person who wouldn't do anything bad to her fiance. Well, I was wrong, very wrong. She spent a lot of time with a male friend alone, who was best friends with her fiance. A year later her fiance was deployed and she slept with her fiance's best friend!


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> How ofte to you and your guys friend have sleep overs and have pillow fights?
> 
> How often do you help your guy friends change there oil or help with a brake job?
> 
> ...


My guy friends spend the night here every so often. When we have parties it is normal to have bodies all over our house for a day or two. Never has there been a line crosses, nor has my husband had a problem with it. He will get up to go to work the next morning, say his good-byes to me, and then bye to the guys on his way out.

I know you are being a smartass, but I can name 3 times this year that I have helped a guy friend with a car problem.

Yes, we do go hunting, fishing etc together. We don't try on clothes but we do work out orders for uniforms, gear and equipment together.

Many of our social encounters include our volunteer work.



that_girl said:


> Yea, that wouldn't fly here. I'm sure my husband wouldn't mind if I did, but I would mind because I know myself...and if I'm befriending men, it's because I think they're worth my time....*wink wink*. If I'm befriending men, my friends would tackle me to slap the crap out of me.
> 
> It's good to know oneself. lol. However, since meeting H, I haven't had the need to meet new men. It was a wonderful and rare situation to find myself in.


I don't need to meet new men, but when I meet them, and befriend them, it's a nice welcome experience. I can't say I really even think about guys that way anymore as odd as that is. I can appreciate a man's good looks, but as far as looking at them that way, I have lost the ability.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I have to say in all seriousness, it sounds like you and your H have set some healthy boundries and the consequences for when they are crossed... so good for you guys.

But in my case, I find it the best way to affair proof my marriage is to keep by friends (if I had any) to male only! And like wise for the Mrs. ...


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

TBT said:


> Not saying yours,but marriages can get rocky from time to time and people have turned to friends to fill emotional needs when they feel they are not being heard at home.Without boundaries they can find themselves deep in an EA with the person who is listening,siding with their point of view and consoling them.


That's probably why my friendships work. My male friend's never side with me, they side with my husband.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> I have to say in all seriousness, it sounds like you and your H have set some healthy boundries and the consequences for when they are crossed... so good for you guy.
> 
> But in my case, I find it the best way to affair proof my marriage is to keep by friends (if I had any) to male only! And like wise for the Mrs. ...


I'd have no friends if I stuck to female only. I just don't get along with women.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Touche'


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Even if they are in a relationship/married, I still wouldn't feel comfortable with my husband spending time with another woman alone. You never know what people are capable of in a bad situation. I trust my husband, but I don't trust others.
> 
> I had always thought of my cousin as a person who wouldn't do anything bad to her fiance. Well, I was wrong, very wrong. She spent a lot of time with a male friend alone, who was best friends with her fiance. A year later her fiance was deployed and she slept with her fiance's best friend!


I guess it's the nature of our work too. My husband was partners with a woman for nearly 2 years. They were together alone 50+ hours per week most of the time spent sitting in a vehicle. They knew each other as well as my husband and I do in most areas, and I can't say it ever bothered me.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Of course it is possible. 

Curious why you don't get along with women?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I dunno. Meeting new friends is cool. But I assure you that these new men aren't just wanting to be your friend.

Sorry, just doesn't happen. You may THINK you know how your male friends feel, but...yea no.


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## Jane_Doe (Aug 9, 2012)

I'd probably be against it. I think. But we're not friendly people lol. My husband has one best friend, a guy he knew from high school and that's it, and we've seen him once this year because he's touring/working. I'm sort of the same way, I've always had one friend at a time, and right now I don't have any. Outside work we're preoccupied with one another.

So I'd definitely find it suspicious and odd if he 'clicked' with another female enough to want to hang out with her in his spare time. It's weird to think about, because it's as preposterous as asking what I would do if he had a second head. I'd probably make out with it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Emerald said:


> Of course it is possible.
> 
> Curious why you don't get along with women?


I'm curious why Emerald is curiuos, why you don't get along with women? LOL...

If I could answer that question (why I'm friends with more girls then guys) I would say that girls are prettier to look at....but thats just me!


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Of course it is possible.
> 
> Curious why you don't get along with women?


I don't do drama, and any time I have female friends, it's constant drama. I just prefer the company of men. I relate better and women are not interested in the things I am interested in.


that_girl said:


> I dunno. Meeting new friends is cool. But I assure you that these new men aren't just wanting to be your friend.
> 
> Sorry, just doesn't happen. You may THINK you know how your male friends feel, but...yea no.


I can assure you that they are just wanting friendship. I DO know my friends, and they don't want more than friends. I have had male friends who wanted more, and they are now aquaintances.


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## madwitt3 (Mar 2, 2012)

Reading the last couple of posts and whoever mentioned baunderies wad dead on. Just watch it when you hit problems in the relationship. Thungs can change guickly. I was nueve enough to allow his friendship with a woman 20 years his senior. As if she would ever be a threat to me, Im hotter and younger. (snaps fingers). urgh...... Over the years she wore his weak butt down slowly moving in. Touching him at first, adoring the attention not telling me. He started touching back into a full blown affair. 

Yeah, people you see as harmless in your life may suprise you! Especially when your with a weak male. Women on the other hand I dont think would go as far. We are the stronger sex in that respect overall not 100%. That still doesnt mean your male friends havent given up on you. That still doesnt mean they are not interested. Come back to me in ten years and tell me your not involved with your best male friend. At that point this whole post can be laided to rest. Its a forsight and I hope all who read this can avoid. The weaker you are, the more likely you cant have oppisite sex friends. The happier you are in you relationship the less to worry, until that day comes when your not!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I had a best friend for 4 years ...never thought anything about him other than he was awesome.

My relationship took a poop and guess whom I fell in love with. yup. My best friend. He said he's loved him since we met. LOL!

We broke up soon after...but don't assume you KNOW where the men stand on this.

I'm happy this works for you. people are people. I just know that if I was going out with other men all the time and not my H, there woudn't be a reason to be married (1) and (2) it's called dating. 

Same as how i'd think about if he was hanging out with difference women...going places and doing things with them and not me. What is the point of marriage if i'm taking back seat to other women? 

:rofl: Glad that's not my issue.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

oh I get it it......now I see the tension between that-girl and you...its all coming together now. LOL


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

At least your H doesn't have to be worried about you going *****.



**********************disclaimer*********************


I have nothing against gay and *****'s... I just cant spell lessbein


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If I have to remind myself that "so and so" is "just a friend", then maybe I shouldn't be friends with that person.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

doh, boundries are the walls we put up to protect our selves, you can't have boundries for other poeple cuz you just can't control other poeple, but you can control what the consequences are when *your * boundries are crossed.

BTW having friends is over rated.. LOL 

Look at me, I'm perfectly normal even though my best and only friend slept with her " " friends" " all 20 of them!!!!


Notice the double quotes...LOL


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I had a best friend for 4 years ...never thought anything about him other than he was awesome.
> 
> My relationship took a poop and guess whom I fell in love with. yup. My best friend. He said he's loved him since we met. LOL!
> 
> ...


I don't hang out with my male friends more than I am with my husband, nor do with "date". We hang out, spend time together as friends, and discuss our volunteer work. No one would even remotely consider the way I spend time with my friends as dating. I don't think having male friends makes my husband having taken a backseat to other men at all.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

madwitt3 said:


> Reading the last couple of posts and whoever mentioned baunderies wad dead on. Just watch it when you hit problems in the relationship. Thungs can change guickly. I was nueve enough to allow his friendship with a woman 20 years his senior. As if she would ever be a threat to me, Im hotter and younger. (snaps fingers). urgh...... Over the years she wore his weak butt down slowly moving in. Touching him at first, adoring the attention not telling me. He started touching back into a full blown affair.
> 
> Yeah, people you see as harmless in your life may suprise you! Especially when your with a weak male. Women on the other hand I dont think would go as far. We are the stronger sex in that respect overall not 100%. That still doesnt mean your male friends havent given up on you. That still doesnt mean they are not interested. Come back to me in ten years and tell me your not involved with your best male friend. At that point this whole post can be laided to rest. Its a forsight and I hope all who read this can avoid. The weaker you are, the more likely you cant have oppisite sex friends. The happier you are in you relationship the less to worry, until that day comes when your not!


 I will be involved with my best male friend in 10 years. My husband is my best friend and has been for many years. The love and friendship I have for him isn't going to be threatened by anyone, especially not my friends. I have had an unhappy time in my relationship, and not once did my friendships with other men play any role in them. I am extremely confident in my judgment, and even more confident in my friends, and their respect for me. As I have said before however, most of them are friends with my husband as well.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> At least your H doesn't have to be worried about you going *****.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm more worried about my husband going gay, than he is about me going *****.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

This question can only be answered on a case by case basis IMO.
Some believe its dangerous to have opposite sex friends based on their experience.
But both my wife and I have opposite sex friends. I think if a person is honest with themselves they will know when boundaries are being crossed.
Let me give an example.
One of her male friends is a guy who was " in love " with her before we were involved.She had him in the " friend zone ." 
She was never attracted to him sexually. After we were married , he lived in our neighbourhood , and used to come pick up my wife at 5AM in the morning for them to go run. I didn't go because of work. He was still single.
Most of you might say I was crazy, right?
Wrong.
I knew this fellow years before,and he is a decent human being, I knew what my wife's personal values were.
A little time after they began running together , he brought in two other women,and their group grew into a sizeable one.

Other than running he would rarely seek contact with my wife.
On one of those occasions , he brought his new girlfriend home by us . About 18 months later he was married to that girl, and they moved out. Sometimes they still drop by.They now have children etc. We are now close family friends. But before that , he was my wife's opposite sex friend.

In my case I have a close female friend who was a professional in her field. Married with three daughters, and at one time was going through a rough marriage & divorce. Her life turned upside down. She was well off and lived in a pretty nice house in the hills. But because of her job,she had to travel out of the country regularly, for periods 2 -3 weeks at a time.
Our friendship was so close that she would put me in charge of her daughters , 18 , 15 and 6 yrs old whenever she travelled. 
She told me that i was the only male friend she could trust with her daughters. My wife didn't mind, sometimes she would go to the house with me and sometimes not.
Whenever she travelled, she would shop especially for my wife, and bring stuff for her. It was not that both of them were close,but she was just respecting my wife and showing her gratitude for her understanding.
She never spoke to me about the guys she dated, but she would always try to connect me with important people in my type of business. 
Basically, the friendship bought my business tremendous benefits and boundaries were never crossed. I was never attracted to her sexually even though she was well off financially and what some considered a " hottie." 
I think that if someone knows that they have even a smidgen of sexual attraction for a " friend " or vice versa, then they should know what to do. Get rid of them.
Other than that,
Men and women can be just friends IMO , and experience.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

nope.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Tikii said:


> I'm more worried about my husband going gay, than he is about me going *****.


Girl you just cracked me up, Mrs. the guy wanted to know what was up and I showed her the thread. LOL LOL LOL

Mrs. the_guy says may spelling is jacked and recommended I watch more preseason footbal then type. I told her eI had to stay on and tell folks how wrong they are!


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

I would assume it's a case by case basis.

People have different boundaries in place. I think that is what is needed: very strong boundaries for yourself. Without them, I imagine it is sloppy. You can never know what another person's person is thinking and feeling.

Personally, I don't have opposite sex friendships anymore. It's too much of a risk. Besides, if I need a male opinion on something, there's my husband, and if he is the one causing me to question something, there is the guys at TAM. 

I will tell you something. I was discussing my attractiveness with my husband. He told me that a man wouldn't be friends with a woman unless they want to have sex with them. They won't make that effort without trying to get into the girl's pants. That was my first lesson on men from him. And, thinking back on my other friendships, he was right. I don't think I had 1 male friend who didn't approach me for making out or wanting a relationship. Why take that risk?


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Writer said:


> Why take that risk?


I don't see it as a risk personally. I trust my life to my male friends, and I woudn't be able to do that with just anyone. I volunteer with most of them, and we are as much a family as we are friends.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> Girl you just cracked me up, Mrs. the guy wanted to know what was up and I showed her the thread. LOL LOL LOL
> 
> Mrs. the_guy says may spelling is jacked and recommended I watch more preseason footbal then type. I told her eI had to stay on and tell folks how wrong they are!


LOL. :smthumbup:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Writer said:


> I would assume it's a case by case basis.
> 
> People have different boundaries in place. I think that is what is needed: very strong boundaries for yourself. Without them, I imagine it is sloppy. You can never know what another person's person is thinking and feeling.
> 
> ...


So when you were a teenager and a young boy asked you to look at his record collection in his bed room, you really thought that he had a record collection or that you really wanted to look at it?


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> So when you were a teenager and a young boy asked you to look at his record collection in his bed room, you really thought that he had a record collection or that you really wanted to look at it?


He had a record alright, just not the kind that played music.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I think the majority that don't see it as a problem, have not been burned by it.

If boundaries have not been crossed, there's not a problem..

But for ones that have been betrayed because of "a friend",, yeah, it's a problem.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

the guy said:


> So when you were a teenager and a young boy asked you to look at his record collection in his bed room, you really thought that he had a record collection or that you really wanted to look at it?


Record collection? Wow... It was CDs. :rofl: You mean, that I could have look at their CD collection?

That actually reminds me of this one time when I was watching a movie with a guy that I just begun dating. We were at his parents house, I was in college, and we were watching the first X-men. He just whips it out in the middle of the movie. I found the movie more fascinating. :scratchhead: That's when I should have known to leave him.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

It has never been possible for me. Every time I have tried it always come to sex. There is somethiing else maybe some haven't considered...

The last time I was out with a male friend, I had taken him somewhere because his car was down. We stopped at the grocery store on the way back. My husband's (fiance at the time) teenage kids were there. And if you know anything about step parenting, you know kids have a natural tendency to hate the step parent and look for fault. My husband knew I was giving my friend a ride, but his son's didn't know we were "just friends". I know it had to look really bad to them. 

I was taught growing up to avoid the appearance of evil. This experience taught me I wasn't doing that. You may know it's innocent but others don't. 

BTW, this male friend professed his love for me. I had to end the friendship. This was my last try. I don't have male friends anymore.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

madwitt3 said:


> Reading the last couple of posts and whoever mentioned baunderies wad dead on. Just watch it when you hit problems in the relationship. Thungs can change guickly. I was nueve enough to allow his friendship with a woman 20 years his senior. As if she would ever be a threat to me, Im hotter and younger. (snaps fingers). urgh...... Over the years she wore his weak butt down slowly moving in. Touching him at first, adoring the attention not telling me. He started touching back into a full blown affair.
> 
> Yeah, people you see as harmless in your life may suprise you! Especially when your with a weak male. Women on the other hand I dont think would go as far. We are the stronger sex in that respect overall not 100%. That still doesnt mean your male friends havent given up on you. That still doesnt mean they are not interested. * Come back to me in ten years and tell me your not involved with your best male friend.* At that point this whole post can be laided to rest. Its a forsight and I hope all who read this can avoid. The weaker you are, the more likely you cant have oppisite sex friends. The happier you are in you relationship the less to worry, until that day comes when your not!


I sure hope I'm involved with my best male friend in 10 years! I have been involved with him for the last 13 years already...and married to him for 12 of those! But I understand what you are saying. My former best friend is married to a girl we grew up with. And, when my husband and I became engaged, that other friend was no longer my best friend. As a matter of fact, I converse more with his wife than I do with him... Haven't spoken to HIM in nearly 10 years. 

My husband and I do have opposite sex friends, but we are BOTH very particular about them. They MUST be friends of both of us...true friends, meaning friends of our marriage. If not, then we do not continue a friendship. We are both on the other side of EAs. It's not worth the risk to us to keep close opposite sex friends. The ones we have are not close to us. And that is by our choice... BOTH of us.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

tikii said:


> i* don't see it as a risk personally.* i trust my life to my male friends, and i woudn't be able to do that with just anyone. I volunteer with most of them, and we are as much a family as we are friends.


bingo

It is actually easier to fall in love with good people who volunteer. They are more loevable.

So your best friend is not your husband? Really?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Loving all the female naivety "my male friend doesn't want to have sex with me"... ROFL... 

Keep saying that to yourselves. Unless you're downright fugly or he is gay there isn't a chance in hell he is not thinking of the good stuff. Not meaning that he will push it or do something about it, at least until the moment is right. But it is there.


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## Nigel (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course men and women can be just friends. I've got a few gay female friends, I've also got a straight female friend who is a right old munter, she's a good laugh though and is going out with another friend of mine. I have no sexual attraction or feelings of love (apart from friendship) or lust to any of them, they're just good mates.


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## Feelingdown (Aug 13, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Loving all the female naivety "my male friend doesn't want to have sex with me"... ROFL...




I think some women just fail to understand how the male mind works. There is a reason why attractive girls always have loads of male friends or loads of males wanting to be their friends. 

On some level, they want sex, even if they're too decent or afriad to ever go for it.


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## Feelingdown (Aug 13, 2012)

As an attractive girl the wife had loads of male friends, but due to them trying it on it eventually went down to just two before we got married. Thankfully she realised herself it's not on and pretty much cut them off other than the odd text or phonecall every 3 months.


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## Tikii (Jun 21, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> bingo
> 
> It is actually easier to fall in love with good people who volunteer. They are more loevable.
> 
> So your best friend is not your husband? Really?


 I've said in this thread that my husband is my best friend. I still consider my two closest friends outside of many marriage my best friends as well. One female and the other male. The others are close friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Men are more likely to be friends with women they find attractive and would date:

Can men and women ever be JUST friends? - Yahoo! Lifestyle UK


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

My two penneth: I've had male friends, and all but one wanted/wished for more. As for the one that didn't want more, that was a lie. I found out after he passed away, that he'd loved me...and more than just as a friend. It was a very sad period in my life, when I found that out.


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Ok let me rephrase that... it depends on how much one invests themselves in the relationship with their spouse vs the relationship with said friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this is the key.

You shouldn't be spending more time with opp sex friend than your OH
You shouldn't be discussing things that you haven't or wouldn't discuss with OH
Your OH has to know & be OK with that friendship
No secrets with the friend
You shouldn't be communicating more with friend than you do with OH

And I disagree that ALL men want to hit it with a female friend. Many or most may fantasize about, but I think most of us committed to our spouse would not follow through even if the opportunity presented itself. But I do agree that if there is trouble in the marriage, you should remove this temptation completely.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

This is always a fun conversation because men and women are TOTALLY different on this issue.

As has been said, it's about time and emotional investment.

If a woman has a straight male friend who is always around and always wants to spend time with her. He wants her romantically..PERIOD!! There's not such thing as a woman having a straight man for a best friend and that man not wanting something more.

Can they be friends with no romantic interest? DEFINITELY, but not "best friends". There are plenty of women I consider "friends" that I'm not interested in, but I'm not seeking out their time and energy on a regular basis. Same with my wife, she has plenty of male "friends" but noone she texts/talks/emails everyday. 

The reason any husband SHOULD have issues with a guy being "best friends" and spending lots of time with his wife is two fold and both are from a protection standpoint.
1. The husband shouldn't be letting other guys "game his wife" and the friend card...is a form of gaming
2. The husband should want to make sure his wife's friends are genuine and then fight to protect those good friendships. As his wife's friend and protector, he should try to keep her away from toxic or false friendships. A guy who's gaming the friend angle is both of those things. His intentions aren't genuine and in turn he's toxic.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tikii said:


> I've said in this thread that my husband is my best friend. I still consider my two closest friends outside of many marriage my best friends as well. One female and the other male. The others are close friends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good that your husband is your best friend. We have seen some folks that claim to have a male best friend that they share personal secrets separate from their husbands.

Interesting how people use language. Not saying my use is better than anyone elses. To me the best means only one. THE best. But indeed I have seen people say they have several best friends. My daughter uses it this way. So I suggest that best in that way would mean close or very close friends.

I also am very emphatic that my wife is my best female friend period. There are no others that could even be in the same breadth.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Feelingdown said:


> I think some women just fail to understand how the male mind works. There is a reason why attractive girls always have loads of male friends or loads of males wanting to be their friends.
> 
> On some level, they want sex, even if they're too decent or afriad to ever go for it.


Some amount of misunderstanding surely but of course there is a conflict of interest at some level. If one can still have all that male attention which feels wonderful and one can rationalize it away then that is what would be done. I suggest for most they are in denial.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

men and women are meant to mate. we are naturally attrracted to the opposite sex. its common sense, not an arguement.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> This is always a fun conversation because men and women are TOTALLY different on this issue.
> 
> As has been said, it's about time and emotional investment.
> 
> ...


A lot of people will not like this but indeed very often a male friendship is all about game. Some guys are more agreessive about the game while others just bide their time. 

ALL relationships ebb and flow. We see some women on TAM have a bad day and post about their idiot husband one day and what a great and hot guy he is the next. Very normal feelings. But that gaming male friend plants the seeds of descent that erode the relationship in very subtle ways. This may or may not be intentional. He is showing her empathy and taking her side. I would never treat you that way. I mean he may be single and clueless about what a husband has to be responsible for. This has less to do with the woman's romantic interest in the friend and more about hurting the romantic interst she has in her husband. Once that is broken down she gets closer to the guy she confides in. It is very iterative. It does not even have to be a conscious effort by the man. It is somewhat natural for a man interested in a woman to use his own natural game with her. He gets emotionally invested with her. Other guys are more calculating. But the results are the same. The marriage suffers whether he gets in her pants or not. Friends only have to meet certain selected needs and not all the time. Spouses have much more to deal with.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Have you guys notice how these discussions all over the web usually end up with some women claiming to have platonic male friends, an extreme majority of men saying there is no such thing between sexually attractive people?

Kinda curious actually, because these seems to mean that what women consider friends (dreaded friend zone) are not really pure friends. Now, an interesting discussion is... Do these women truly think they are friends or do they know they want more and use them as intellectual wh*res?

What is an intellectual wh*re? Google it, you won't be disappointed...


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## piggyoink (Apr 10, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Have you guys notice how these discussions all over the web usually end up with some women claiming to have platonic male friends, an extreme majority of men saying there is no such thing between sexually attractive people?
> 
> Kinda curious actually, because these seems to mean that what women consider friends (dreaded friend zone) are not really pure friends. Now, an interesting discussion is... Do these women truly think they are friends or do they know they want more and use them as intellectual wh*res?
> 
> What is an intellectual wh*re? Google it, you won't be disappointed...


Well would you say this is authentic or just a stereotype?
This is about Portuguese culture...? - Yahoo! Answers 
"My boyfriend comes from a very traditional Portuguese family. I love my boyfriend very much, but I notice that he does have somewhat controlling tendencies."


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

piggyoink said:


> Well would you say this is authentic or just a stereotype?
> This is about Portuguese culture...? - Yahoo! Answers
> "My boyfriend comes from a very traditional Portuguese family. I love my boyfriend very much, but I notice that he does have somewhat controlling tendencies."


I'd say its a stereotype firmly based in reality . For the average "american girl" a portuguese male would probably be described like that post on yahoo does. Although i've seen women complain about american males just in those words. But yes, on average i would say that portuguese males, just like most south european males don't allow the grass to grow too far. 

By the way, portuguese women are no peach either. I've seen more women going violent over jealousy than men. It happens often enough that a tourist walks into a bar and starts flirting with men there only to find herself being dragged by the hair by a disgruntled girlfriend. 

That yahoo post also leaves a bit to interpretation. Is the guy keeping tabs on her or he just wants to be in contact a lot due to novelty? We are very passionate people! Maybe the guy just can't get enough of her!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

piggyoink said:


> Well would you say this is authentic or just a stereotype?
> This is about Portuguese culture...? - Yahoo! Answers
> "My boyfriend comes from a very traditional Portuguese family. I love my boyfriend very much, but I notice that he does have somewhat controlling tendencies."


The thing is that one could google and find a huge number of of references to men being controlling no matter the culture. 

The 'C' word is used along with jealous and insecure very often and in a very controlling, insecure and manipulative manner. Often to justify some form of cake eating or less than faithfulness behavior.

I also find people who use the word insecure are projecting their own insecurities in dealing with an issue head on. Meaning it is like 'talk to the hand'. When all else fails and you just want to indulge yourself one just says their partner is jealous, insecure and controlling. This totally avoids dealing with the real issues.

It is not controlling to protect your relationship and / or have good boundaries. If one puts friends above their marriage then perhaps being single is the better deal.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

3leafclover said:


> Doing this led me to the ladder theory website. I'm still reading through it. I don't know that I subscribe to the theory, but it's freaking hilarious.


Yeah the intellectual wh*re stuff is a consequence of the ladder thing. I disagree with parts of the ladder thing (another discussion) but i can see the intellectual wh*re stuff at work all the time. And it's so cruel...


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Kinda curious actually, because these seems to mean that what women consider friends (dreaded friend zone) are not really pure friends. Now, an interesting discussion is... Do these women truly think they are friends or do they know they want more and use them as intellectual wh*res?
> 
> What is an intellectual wh*re? Google it, you won't be disappointed...


I would say it varies woman to woman.

When I put a man in the friend's zone when I was younger, he stayed there. Not because he was the backup plan or because I wanted him to stimulate me intellectually. Usually, it was after he confessed he liked me, and I didn't feel the same way. I enjoyed him as a friend (like any of the girlfriends that I had)

But my husband had a friend place him in the zone, and she toyed with him. After she placed him there, they would hang out. She would want to cuddle with him on the couch watching TV. He would have been her backup plan if he didn't man up.


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## hotdogs (Aug 9, 2012)

I've never had a close male friend who hasn't tried something.
It may be entirely possible for a wife to have a close male friend she'd never screw but if a husband gets a close female friend, watch out. Double standard? Yes. Wired completely differently? We are. It is what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hotdogs (Aug 9, 2012)

costa200 said:


> I'd say its a stereotype firmly based in reality . For the average "american girl" a portuguese male would probably be described like that post on yahoo does. Although i've seen women complain about american males just in those words. But yes, on average i would say that portuguese males, just like most south european males don't allow the grass to grow too far.
> 
> By the way, portuguese women are no peach either. I've seen more women going violent over jealousy than men. It happens often enough that a tourist walks into a bar and starts flirting with men there only to find herself being dragged by the hair by a disgruntled girlfriend.
> 
> ...


My heritage would definitely be considered southern Euro, as my peoples come from Sicily. I am violently jealous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

hotdogs said:


> I've never had a close male friend who hasn't tried something.
> It may be entirely possible for a wife to have a close male friend she'd never screw but if a husband gets a close female friend, watch out. Double standard? Yes. Wired completely differently? We are. It is what it is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I completely agree with this.

Can't help it. We're men.

And while a lot of men never do try anything with their female friends, people should understand that it doesn't mean they haven't pictured the woman in a comprimising position.

Sometimes we get that platonic vibe all the time with never a hiccup but it's rare.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

hotdogs said:


> My heritage would definitely be considered southern Euro, as my peoples come from Sicily. I am violently jealous.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Uh Oh! Miss Corleone... My respects!


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> ALL relationships ebb and flow. We see some women on TAM have a bad day and post about their idiot husband one day and what a great and hot guy he is the next. Very normal feelings. But that gaming male friend plants the seeds of descent that erode the relationship in very subtle ways. *This may or may not be intentional. He is showing her empathy and taking her side. I would never treat you that way. * I mean he may be single and clueless about what a husband has to be responsible for. This has less to do with the woman's romantic interest in the friend and more about hurting the romantic interst she has in her husband. Once that is broken down she gets closer to the guy she confides in. It is very iterative. It does not even have to be a conscious effort by the man. It is somewhat natural for a man interested in a woman to use his own natural game with her. He gets emotionally invested with her. Other guys are more calculating. But the results are the same. The marriage suffers whether he gets in her pants or not. Friends only have to meet certain selected needs and not all the time. Spouses have much more to deal with.


This is true. Showing empathy for a friend and siding with them against their spouse is effectively driving a wedge in the marriage. 

If you want to stay friends only with someone then these kind of spouse discussions need to be off limits. All negative discussions about a opposite sex friend’s spouse should be avoided. This is the kind of discussion that needs to be reserved for same sex friends or family.


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

Based on my experience with male friends , my answer would be no ! I had this one male friend in the past and he ended up confessing his love for me and proposing marriage .

Didn't learn the lesson, I had new male friends , one of them proposed to me and the other one we end up hugging ... I will never ever have a male friend in my life . I was so clueless and naive that i thought we were " just friends".

My story with this male friend is funny though. After I friend zoned him , I developed feelings for him . Sadly he was seeing another woman ( planning to get married to her) . He knew about my feelings and wanted us to be " just friends" . I agreed but secretly wanted more. It felt sooo bad hoping he might one day be interested in me !!

Oh! now i know how men think ! The good thing is i was honest with myself enough to cut all ties with him. I am unsure though if he put me in the friend zone as a back up plan or not.


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

I don't think it's so hard when you just don't find them physically attractive. I have long term male friends who did ask me out when we were in school but I was not attracted to them. I put them in the friend zone and they accepted it I guess.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Lets just say it does not work out 95% of the time if not more. I could give a very very long post on why i think so. In short i will say this we tend to surround ourselves with folk we like this goes the same for opposite sex friends. If you have a really good opposite sex friend you have had for years more than likely this person and you have a connection and all that is preventing you two from being physical with one another is lack of a "spark". I will say this most opposite sex friendships that are "deep" and true like really good friends they will eventually lead to a relationship of some sort. Usually there is a spark at some point and curiosity gets them. In addition a lot of people have had relationships or feelings for one another but never dated and instead remained friends but because they had a past spark there is always potential for a future relationship to ensue. 

If there was ever a "spark" there is potential given the right circumstances for a relationship of some sort to ensue. In the case the two opposite sex friends never had a "spark" meaning they never found each other attractive and wanted to date, there still exists a chance that overtime their closeness will lead to them desiring or questioning what a relationship between the two would be like. Only thing stopping them is time and certain potential obstacles for instance if one of the two is in a relationship with another person.


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## hotdogs (Aug 9, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Uh Oh! Miss Corleone... My respects!


LOL


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Forgot where I heard this but do the friend test.

Ask them if they would be interested in having sex with you, if they decline then they are a friend only. If they readily agree and start drooling, they have just been waiting in the wings hoping for the chance to get in your pants.

But yes it is possible to have friends of the opposite sex.

Oh but what man would pass up the opportunity, a guy who is JUST A FRIEND would pass it up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Forgot where I heard this but do the friend test.
> 
> Ask them if they would be interested in having sex with you, if they decline then they are a friend only. If they readily agree and start drooling, they have just been waiting in the wings hoping for the chance to get in your pants.
> 
> ...


This only works if they think she could be serious. But indeed this is dead on.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

cheatinghubby said:


> Forgot where I heard this but do the friend test.
> 
> Ask them if they would be interested in having sex with you, if they decline then they are a friend only. If they readily agree and start drooling, they have just been waiting in the wings hoping for the chance to get in your pants.
> 
> ...


You are just a friend if nothing ever happens. 2 people could be married and just be friends. Quite possible that the fact they are each married is what prevents it from becoming anything more than that. 
In that case you chalk it up to simply fantasizing about them and wondering if they do the same.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Tikii said:


> My husband and I were "just friends" in high school/college. We never developed feelings for each other, we basically always had them. With my male friends, there is no desire for a relationship, or any type of romantic feelings. I would be extremely hurt if my husband wouldn't allow me to hang out with my friends because he couldn't trust me to remain faithful. I can honestly say there has never been any temptation when it comes to being alone with male friends.


Tikii, I guarantee your male friends have very different private thoughts regarding your friendship with them. Women, in general, are naive to this.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> This only works if they think she could be serious. But indeed this is dead on.


Yeah, I think most men would realize this was a test, and say what they SHOULD say.

The real test would be for her to wait for a very private "romantic type" moment, or when it's dark, and then be very genuinely seductive. Then put a hand on his thigh and ask to be physical. Bet most fail that test.

If you're sitting in a coffee shop 5 feet away and say, "Hey, would you like to have sex?" the guy would start looking around for the hidden cameras and/or husband.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> You are just a friend if nothing ever happens. 2 people could be married and just be friends. Quite possible that the fact they are each married is what prevents it from becoming anything more than that.
> In that case you chalk it up to simply fantasizing about them and wondering if they do the same.


If you are fantasizing about a friend you are programming yourself. You are impacting your brain checmicals and drawing closer to the other.

Just because one has not had sex with someone ... yet ... or ever will for that matter, does not mean that there is not a harmful impact on the primary relationship.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, I think most men would realize this was a test, and say what they SHOULD say.
> 
> The real test would be for her to wait for a very private "romantic type" moment, or when it's dark, and then be very genuinely seductive. Then put a hand on his thigh and ask to be physical. Bet most fail that test.
> 
> If you're sitting in a coffee shop 5 feet away and say, "Hey, would you like to have sex?" the guy would start looking around for the hidden cameras and/or husband.


Or the old dropping the towell trick.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> If you are fantasizing about a friend you are programming yourself. You are impacting your brain checmicals and drawing closer to the other.
> 
> Just because one has not had sex with someone ... yet ... or ever will for that matter, does not mean that there is not a harmful impact on the primary relationship.


Indeed friends don't fantize about each other. This is crossing g the line and forming a bond at the same time. Fantasies about generic non- real people don't hurt. Fantasies with actual people do. Orgasms release oxytocin which helps for a deep attachment bond. This is one of the reasons that sex is so important to a marriage. It refuels the bond. If you choose to fuel with someone else you are weakening the bond with your spouse.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> If you are fantasizing about a friend you are programming yourself. You are impacting your brain checmicals and drawing closer to the other.
> 
> Just because one has not had sex with someone ... yet ... or ever will for that matter, does not mean that there is not a harmful impact on the primary relationship.


They are thoughts, people have thoughts about others all of the time. Whether they are people we know, celebrities, or just made up people.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

meson said:


> Indeed friends don't fantize about each other. This is crossing g the line and forming a bond at the same time. Fantasies about generic non- real people don't hurt. Fantasies with actual people do. Orgasms release oxytocin which helps for a deep attachment bond. This is one of the reasons that sex is so important to a marriage. It refuels the bond. If you choose to fuel with someone else you are weakening the bond with your spouse.


Exactly. Well put. :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

meson said:


> Indeed friends don't fantize about each other. This is crossing g the line and forming a bond at the same time. Fantasies about generic non- real people don't hurt. Fantasies with actual people do. Orgasms release oxytocin which helps for a deep attachment bond. This is one of the reasons that sex is so important to a marriage. It refuels the bond. If you choose to fuel with someone else you are weakening the bond with your spouse.


Friends don't fantasize about each other?
Seriously? Is this just a rule for when you are married, or in general. Because I can say that I have fantasized about approximately 80% of the female friends I have had through my life. And I choose to believe that atleast half of those, have done the same. Why wouldn't they?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> They are thoughts, people have thoughts about others all of the time. Whether they are people we know, celebrities, or just made up people.


And there is a huge difference between a fantasy about a friend and your other examples.

I am not going to try to convince you of this. It really should be self evident but we ALL have scotomas.

One needs to understand the concepts of affirmations and brain chemicals to truly see this.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Friends don't fantasize about each other?
> Seriously? Is this just a rule for when you are married, or in general. Because I can say that I have fantasized about approximately 80% of the female friends I have had through my life. And I choose to believe that atleast half of those, have done the same. Why wouldn't they?


No. Not unless you are dating them. If you are thinking in these terms these are not just friends.

But this is the point. Men tend to fantasize about women we like. This is why we say that having close opposite sex friends is very risky.

Thank you for helping to prove this point BTW.

If you are single and the woman is not married go for it. If I were not in a LTR I would not supress these fantasies. It is actually good for your T levels. Healthier than porn IMHO. AND the programming would be good as it would encourage you to pursue these women which again IMO would be what a healthy man should be doing. I am not suggesting you screw everything that moves but rather find a high value woman to bond with.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> No. Not unless you are dating them. If you are thinking in these terms these are not just friends.
> 
> But this is the point. Men tend to fantasize about women we like. This is why we say that having close opposite sex friends is very risky.
> 
> ...


Just because you have a fantasy about a woman doesn't mean that you would always carry out that fantasy. I like the idea that a woman I know would have a fantasy about me even though it would NEVER happen. It is just some fun for the brain. That or it is something to help the process when pleasing ones self. 
Not all situations will lend themselves to something physical happening. Could just be a friendship or acquaintance. Are you trying to tell me that a hot acquaintance that you know you will never sexually touch, you are not going to think about it. Please...


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

I have to admit the thought of my husband fantasizing about another during sex is hurtful. It don't matter to me how "normal" men say it is. Part of what makes sex work for me is thinking that what he's doing and thinking is all about me. Makes me feel sexy.

I remember when we were first married and I would notice a "hot" guy and my mind wandered...then I would ask myself if he (my husband) was doing the same thing how would I feel. Those thoughts would quickly leave. Those "hot" men turned into just "attractive" men. To me those two words bring up different thoughts.

It makes me sad that in light of our troubles lately my way of thinking is reverting back. So if I could put myself in "pre-problem days" that person would tell you straight up that fantasies of others in my bed is not ok. But that's is/was me.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I have to admit the thought of my husband fantasizing about another during sex is hurtful. It don't matter to me how "normal" men say it is. Part of what makes sex work for me is thinking that what he's doing and thinking is all about me. Makes me feel sexy.
> 
> I remember when we were first married and I would notice a "hot" guy and my mind wandered...then I would ask myself if he (my husband) was doing the same thing how would I feel. Those thoughts would quickly leave. Those "hot" men turned into just "attractive" men. To me those two words bring up different thoughts.
> 
> It makes me sad that in light of our troubles lately my way of thinking is reverting back. So if I could put myself in "pre-problem days" that person would tell you straight up that fantasies of others in my bed is not ok. But that's is/was me.


I remember that first year of marriage (the honey moon phase), we had sex quite often, almost every other day. It was so often that I HAD to think about other women while have sex or I was not going to finish the task. I just was not turned on enough by her to be able to do that with her that often. After that first year the sex lessened a great deal and then it became much easier since it was not as often. I didn't have to fantasize as often during.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Just because you have a fantasy about a woman doesn't mean that you would always carry out that fantasy. I like the idea that a woman I know would have a fantasy about me even though it would NEVER happen. It is just some fun for the brain. That or it is something to help the process when pleasing ones self.
> Not all situations will lend themselves to something physical happening. Could just be a friendship or acquaintance. Are you trying to tell me that a hot acquaintance that you know you will never sexually touch, you are not going to think about it. Please...


I am not trying to be harsh on you but you are still not getting the point. It has NOTHING at all to do with following through on this. It has to do with programming your brain and how it impacts your thinking. Sorry if this seems to put a cramp on what you were hoping for.

So this has nothing do with something physically happening. You are somehow trying to justify some behavior here. I could specualt where you are trying to take this.

So forget anything over the internet. Forget anyone you would come into contact with on a yearly basis.

You can freaking think anything you want to think. But we are advising you that you are programming yourself in a manner that is highly likely to get you into trouble one way or another. So choose wisely. Once is not a problem. But who can only do this once. 

Are you married? If so you seem to be looking for ways of getting by boundaries on tecnicalities.

Good luck with that. And yes back at you. Please GMAFB.

Good luck playing with this fire. I won't hassle you. Just be careful. I hope you get it worked out to a boundary that works for you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I have to admit the thought of my husband fantasizing about another during sex is hurtful. It don't matter to me how "normal" men say it is. Part of what makes sex work for me is thinking that what he's doing and thinking is all about me. Makes me feel sexy.
> 
> I remember when we were first married and I would notice a "hot" guy and my mind wandered...then I would ask myself if he (my husband) was doing the same thing how would I feel. Those thoughts would quickly leave. Those "hot" men turned into just "attractive" men. To me those two words bring up different thoughts.
> 
> It makes me sad that in light of our troubles lately my way of thinking is reverting back. So if I could put myself in "pre-problem days" that person would tell you straight up that fantasies of others in my bed is not ok. But that's is/was me.


I have never had my mind wander to another when I have been with my wife. Not bragging. It is not like I have to supress the thoughts or control them. I am just consumed with my wife. I am in the moment.

If I had to think about another I have bigger problems.

When I am on business trips I tend to fantasize ... you guessed it about my wife. But that said it is normal I think for a man to fantasize in those situations more generically. BUT if he is fantasizing about a real person in his life he is f^cking up.

I also have to laugh. My fantasies would not include a celebrity. I would not be surprised if women do this. Idunno.

Over the years I have remebered past experiences with people who are no longer in my life. When I was younger I think I felt free to fantasize more freely about things. I have learned this causes problems.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I have never had my mind wander to another when I have been with my wife. Not bragging. It is not like I have to supress the thoughts or control them. I am just consumed with my wife. I am in the moment.
> 
> If I had to think about another I have bigger problems.
> 
> ...


Not I. I don't fantasize about celebs either. When I am with my husband, my thoughts are solely on him and only him. I think about positions I would love to be in with him (especially ones I know are physically impossible right now, for both of us). The only, and I do mean ONLY time I EVER fantasized about anyone else was during my EA. And, as you said, Entropy... there were FAR bigger problems going on in our life. But once that all came out in the open, we recommitted and my focus has been on him, and only him.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Not I. I don't fantasize about celebs either. When I am with my husband, my thoughts are solely on him and only him. I think about positions I would love to be in with him (especially ones I know are physically impossible right now, for both of us). The only, and I do mean ONLY time I EVER fantasized about anyone else was during my EA. And, as you said, Entropy... there were FAR bigger problems going on in our life. But once that all came out in the open, we recommitted and my focus has been on him, and only him.


Yes.

Hey we live and learn.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Just because you have a fantasy about a woman doesn't mean that you would always carry out that fantasy. I like the idea that a woman I know would have a fantasy about me even though it would NEVER happen. It is just some fun for the brain. That or it is something to help the process when pleasing ones self.
> Not all situations will lend themselves to something physical happening. Could just be a friendship or acquaintance. Are you trying to tell me that a hot acquaintance that you know you will never sexually touch, you are not going to think about it. Please...


Don't know about you, but when i call someone a "friend" i'm not having sexual feelings about the person. Maybe your definition of friend is different from mine. 

If there is sexual tension then that is no real friendship in my book.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Don't know about you, but when i call someone a "friend" i'm not having sexual feelings about the person. Maybe your definition of friend is different from mine.
> 
> If there is sexual tension then that is no real friendship in my book.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

I can't say my dreams don't have others in it. I have vivid sex dreams. Rarely has my husband been the subject of those. For example, one that comes to mind is Superman. I mean really. I guess if I am gonna dream high. Lol I think I actually woke my husband up talking in my sleep with that one once. And Wolverine....explain those.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I can't say my dreams don't have others in it. I have vivid sex dreams. Rarely has my husband been the subject of those. For example, one that comes to mind is Superman. I mean really. I guess if I am gonna dream high. Lol I think I actually woke my husband up talking in my sleep with that one once. And Wolverine....explain those.


Well, Wolverine... I can see dreaming about him! Personally, I think there are others I would dream about before him, but hey, to each her own. LOL 

See, I view dreams differently than fantasizing... and even mental pictures during sex. In a dream, you have no control over that. Fantasies, you do...at least in my experience anyway. But to purposely think of someone you know, just so you can endure sex with your spouse? That says there are a LOT of problems in the marriage...and avoiding the discussion merely prolongs the agony.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I have to admit the thought of my husband fantasizing about another during sex is hurtful. It don't matter to me how "normal" men say it is. I dont think it is 'normal', just that some people do it. I dont personally.Part of what makes sex work for me is thinking that what he's doing and thinking is all about me. Makes me feel sexy.


:iagree:


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Just because you have a fantasy about a woman doesn't mean that you would always carry out that fantasy. I like the idea that a woman I know would have a fantasy about me even though it would NEVER happen. It is just some fun for the brain. That or it is something to help the process when pleasing ones self.
> Not all situations will lend themselves to something physical happening. Could just be a friendship or acquaintance. Are you trying to tell me that a hot acquaintance that you know you will never sexually touch, you are not going to think about it. Please...


No it doesn't mean you that you intend are carrying out a fantasy. The problem caused by repeated fantasies is that it is is reinforcing an affectionate bond to the object of your fantasy. This will make it much easier to slide down the slippery slope oa an EA with that person. It is not the fantasy alone that is a problem, it's the neurological changes it creates that is the problem.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

meson said:


> No it doesn't mean you that you intend are carrying out a fantasy. The problem caused by repeated fantasies is that it is is reinforcing an affectionate bond to the object of your fantasy. This will make it much easier to slide down the slippery slope oa an EA with that person. It is not the fantasy alone that is a problem, it's the neurological changes it creates that is the problem.


People severely overestimate their ability of self-control. Very common and costly mistake.


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## OhhShiney (Apr 8, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> If you are fantasizing about a friend you are programming yourself. You are impacting your brain checmicals and drawing closer to the other.


 Bingo. every time you think a thought, you are rehearsing it, and some thoughts about other people you have, have had, or might have feelings for can be triggered by ANY activity that brings to mind that other person. The feelings may be sexual, and may be accompanied by that all too familiar rush you get when you are lusting after someone. It's exactly the same an ex -addict feels when they drive by a place they used to make a buy, even long after they have finished rehab. Ex lovers may be in their own form of involuntary rehab if the relationship was not ended voluntarily, and those harboring a sulent crush are teetering on the edge of a dangerous abyss. 

This is a huge problem. It's one of the reasons I have trouble with seemingly innocent Facebook friends lists. If you are friends with a person on Facebook, you each get a nice little post on your news feed each time the other person posts, complete with a picture of that person. And, thanks to technology, you are a click away from a direct response from the person. It's not that different in real life.

Say you have an opposite sex friend who unknowingly has the hots for you, or maybe an ex-husband or lover. Every time you post anything on your wall, that person sees your picture. They will be reminded of you, and are free to conjure up any thoughts they want to, and their brain will be awash in chemicals. Thanks to you, they have just had another opportunity to rehearse that thought process and solidify all the feelings they have.

This phenomenon is strong and acts much like that of addiction. Cognitive behavior therapy for addiction focuses on getting addicts out of situations that trigger the images. This is why addicts stay away from places that trigger urges. For the same reason boundaries are important with ex lovers who might still carry a torch. If you remain in a Facebook friendship, or ANY friendship with someone who has strong feelings for you, you are tempting them and most likely making their feelings stronger. 

This will happen regardless of how YOU feel about the other person.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I can't say my dreams don't have others in it. I have vivid sex dreams. Rarely has my husband been the subject of those. For example, one that comes to mind is Superman. I mean really. I guess if I am gonna dream high. Lol I think I actually woke my husband up talking in my sleep with that one once. And Wolverine....explain those.


Dreams are dreams. Completely different deal ... mostly.

But if you start having recurring sexual dreams about a friend then this should be telling you something but I would not be too concerned unless it was recurring. Then I would be all WTF? I think this has happend to me with people from my past mostly.

I suggest you go full NC with ... Superman. Then dream and fantasize away.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OhhShiney said:


> Bingo. every time you think a thought, you are rehearsing it, and some thoughts about other people you have, have had, or might have feelings for can be triggered by ANY activity that brings to mind that other person. The feelings may be sexual, and may be accompanied by that all too familiar rush you get when you are lusting after someone. It's exactly the same an ex -addict feels when they drive by a place they used to make a buy, even long after they have finished rehab. Ex lovers may be in their own form of involuntary rehab if the relationship was not ended voluntarily, and those harboring a sulent crush are teetering on the edge of a dangerous abyss.
> 
> This is a huge problem. It's one of the reasons I have trouble with seemingly innocent Facebook friends lists. If you are friends with a person on Facebook, you each get a nice little post on your news feed each time the other person posts, complete with a picture of that person. And, thanks to technology, you are a click away from a direct response from the person. It's not that different in real life.
> 
> ...


Nicely put. :iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## HopelesslyJaded (Aug 14, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Dreams are dreams. Completely different deal ... mostly.
> 
> But if you start having recurring sexual dreams about a friend then this should be telling you something.
> 
> I suggest you go full NC with ... Superman. Then dream and fantasize away.


 and what about wolverine? I am sure a psychologist would run with this.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HopelesslyJaded said:


> and what about wolverine? I am sure a psychologist would run with this.


:rofl: Just awesome. Idunno :rofl: Funny for sure. I don't think you need to call in the dream police though.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I despise FACEBOOK. My husband HAD his ex wife and 4 ex lovers on his friends list. Not anymore. I feel exactly the way OhhShiney does about it.


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## OhhShiney (Apr 8, 2011)

dixieangel said:


> I despise FACEBOOK. My husband HAD his ex wife and 4 ex lovers on his friends list. Not anymore. I feel exactly the way OhhShiney does about it.


Did you confront him about it? Did he remove them from the friends lists?

I confronted my wife about it and had a 1/2 success. She removed him from her news feed, which means she doesn't see HIS posts in her feed. I've tried to explain that her posts appear on HIS news feed, and she has been resistant to remove him from her friend's list. I do have NO evidence that there is any improper contact, but her ex DOES send her happy birthday and happy mother's day messages which she either ignores or simply says thank you. The longer we have been married, the less threatened I feel, but I still feel a bit miffed. 

What fries me is that he sometimes "likes" a post on her wall. He is apparently reading her posts and "likes" a post every month or so. I see this "like" on MY wall along with HER post. If we both "like" a post she makes, our names end up in a list "likes", as in "your husband and your ex husband like this". 

*To top it off, recently, Facebook suggested him as a friend since Facebook apparently thought we had something in common*. I told her how much this annoyed me and she thought I was being silly. She says she considers him a cad and a cheat and wouldn't every consider reconciling and that I have nothing to worry about. She even said she was surprised I wasn't friends with MY ex wife. I told her I would NOT want her to see my postings about how happy I was, etc. I think it is CRUEL to tease someone like that. Besides, my ex really has no business knowing what I'm up to. Maybe it's because I have very few memories of my ex that I would want to have stirred up routinely by her face appearing in MY news feed. I just don't want to be reminded about the pain of that part of my past. Maybe someday I'll feel differently, but I can't anticipate that happening. I have SOME feelings about her, and hope for success in her future, but do NOT wish to dangle my life in her face, or have her life dangled in my face. Perhaps my own feelings are so strong that I can't understand how my wife would want to remain connected via Facebook friendship to her exes. 


While I can understand intellectually that it's likely OK to be interested in how people from our past are doing and to not want to hook up with them, etc, etc, it still bothers me considering what I know about him. 

I have NO objection whatsoever to ANY of her other Facebook male friends, or her first ex, just this ex. This is probably because she told me a bit too much about him after we met. I know enough about their past, and the fact the he is a serial cheater, to distrust HIS intentions.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'd say no. I used to think it was possible, but after really thinking hard about it...Every man that I have ever had anything more than a very casual, say "Hi" if we pass on the street type of friendship (and that really isn't friendship, is it? More like acquaintance-ship haha) has tried to have sex with me. Even the 2 close male GAY friends that I have had have tried. One I think wasn't happy being gay and thought that I could turn him straight (Um, NO!) and the other, maybe he was really bisexual? These friendships were years apart...so I don't know. Makes me kind of feel like men of all sexualities are just horn dogs and will try to get with anyone who has parts they could get off with that they think might be willing.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

OhhShiney said:


> Did you confront him about it? Did he remove them from the friends lists?
> 
> I confronted my wife about it and had a 1/2 success. She removed him from her news feed, which means she doesn't see HIS posts in her feed. I've tried to explain that her posts appear on HIS news feed, and she has been resistant to remove him from her friend's list. I do have NO evidence that there is any improper contact, but her ex DOES send her happy birthday and happy mother's day messages which she either ignores or simply says thank you. The longer we have been married, the less threatened I feel, but I still feel a bit miffed.
> 
> ...


Oh man, I think you need to put your foot down. If she thinks he's a cheating cad, why in the heck would she want to be facebook friends with him? Why does she care what he is up to? Why would she want to keep any sort of connection? Ever since I got on facebook, all of my exes have sent friend requests. I blocked them. They're in the past. I found out then that they weren't the ones for me, so why on Earth would I want them to be able to see what I'm up to, pics of me and my kids, etc?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

OhhShiney,

Yes, I did confront him and he reluctantly did defriend them..He didn't send them the NC letters like I wished, but it was hard enough for me to get him to just defriend them, so I left that alone. He refuses to get rid of Facebook completely. 

I would see his posts and these exes all over his 'wall' and needless to say, his ex wife triggered me...(he cheated on me with her shortly after we were together ..unresolved feelings he claims). I couldn't stand to see them talking to him all the time. They all have his cell number too. He erased their numbers, but they can still contact him. 

I just believe that exes and ex lovers should be left in the past, especially after infidelity. I don't think we need to be chummy with them. Like many have said, you can't help but think about intimate times you shared with them and I think having them around even on Facebook just isn't good. It is too easy to reconnect when you stay in contact. I think they should be "out of sight out of mind"..if nothing else, out of respect for your SO.

He defriended, his ex wife, his 1st 16 year old virgin lover, the gf/lover he had when he was 19, and a 19 year old girl he was having sex with after his ex left. I could go on a rant here with details, but I won't. I don't have to see them on his Facebook anymore at least.

My husband will not agree with me about this issue. He thinks it's OK to be friends with them. I'm sad that I had to insist that he stop this.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

Forgive me for a little ranting...

He lost his virginity to her and her to him as teenagers....

How could he NOT look at her and imagine her in intimate ways? I couldn't and I'm a female! 

I was dumb enough to go with him to meet her after all these years...it was so uncomfortable to sit there and watch them converse...knowing what I'd be thinking...knowing what they both had to be thinking...

Looking back, they did this with their SO right there, so they thought this made it OK. But, I regret doing this now. I started to look up old bf's to try and show him how it feels to sit and watch this..sometimes, giving someone a little of their own medicine can get your point across better than words. But, I got married young and stayed married 15 years. I didn't have an equivolent to show him. 

I am a very loving, generous, kind, and forgiving person, but this was too much for me....

I kept seeing her picture and her comments to him on his Facebook... I was being constantly bombarded by his first sex partner. I don't like to be reminded of these things. I don't like to have those thoughts. So, it's not just about him, it's about how it makes me feel.

This technology age makes communication too easy.. Facebook, like someone here said, puts these people and the thoughts/memories associated with them, right in our faces/minds all the time...not in a box in the closet in a photo album.

A couple months ago, my husband tells me about this woman's life and her relationship with her husband being strained, so I realize he's been having lengthy conversations with her behind my back.

Then one evening, my husband and I are on our way to dinner, and he gets a phone call from the ex lover he had when he was 19. She found some old photos from their school days and wanted to share. 

The young one he had a fling with after his wife left, was also commenting on his Facebook. Once, she thanked him for dinner. When I questioned this, she said the girl had come in to get dinner...he is a restaurant manager.

His ex wife....I had to see her picture and her comments too.

I finally had enough...and am ashamed I ever put up with this for a second. I have learned another lesson the hard way...and maybe by posting this, someone else will stop this too or better yet, don't ever put up with it in the first place.

I can't see this as anything other than WRONG.


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

Dixie, that really tugs at some raw emotions and in the thick of it, it is extremely difficult to step back. I would never condone deception or an EA. But as for past relationships and jealousy, you can also look at it a different way.

There are many twists & turns in life, things that happen or have to happen for two people to meet. It took all of the little & big things to happen in just a certain way & order to bring two people together. Speaking strictly for myself, it doesn't matter that I was not her first, I wasn't even her first marriage. It only matters that I am her last.

But I would be upset if she maintained an unhealthy level of communication with a past lover.


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